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On this week's Friday edition of the podcast, Ali talks to friend of the podcast and general all-round super scriptwriter Krysty Wilson-Cairnes about one of her favourite films for Ali Plumb's Film Club this week, The Truman Show. Plus! Reviews of three new releases, namely Scoob!, The Long Way Back and The Old Guard. And next week's film club choice? That'll be No Country For Old Men. Definitely something to look forward to...

A few weeks ago Joe, Dale and Cardy gave their thoughts on The Last of Us Part 2. They also asked for your thoughts and now that Alex, Matt and Jesse have also finished the game, it's time to share your opinions with the world. If you've yet to finish The Last of Us 2 don't worry, because there's a brand new Endless Search game right at the beginning of the podcast. That'll keep you busy for 10 minutes. Let's go!

In this episode, Gary and Naren discuss the dreaded last-minute cancellations and appointment no shows. Gary goes into detail on how to create an ASAP list that will help you reduce these last-minute cancellations and no shows in your practice. Highlights: Introduction to today’s topic > 01:00 Learn about the upcoming MBA > 01:27 How to handle patients who are always canceling or not showing up > 05:19 Learn more about the ASAP list > 13:28 Learn more about the VIP list > 14:15 How to building your ASAP list > 16:15 Come join the I love Dentistry community > 20:06 Resources: REGISTER NOW JOIN THE TRIBE Podcast Transcript Naren: Hello everyone. Welcome to another awesome episode of the less insurance dependence podcast show. This is Naren, your co-host. Today we have an amazing exciting topic for you. This was something that many, many, people wrote in and asked Gary about. We called it your ASAP list. Gary has spent a lot of time over the last 40 years in his coaching work as well as in his life smiles dental care practice figuring out how to handle patients who have a pattern of cancellations and no-shows. So, this is going to be a treat. Before I get into the podcast, I have an announcement. We have MBA coming up on July 17th and 24th, 4 p.m. To 8 p.m. Eastern. I wanted to first talk to Gary about what happened with the MBA he just got done yesterday. So, Gary good evening. How are you this evening? Gary: Hey Naren, I'm doing great. As we're recording this, I'm sort of feeling the afterglow of having just finished our June one-day thriving dentist MBA. Now this we needed to retitle the name because we didn't do it in one day. We actually took three evenings. We want to try to present different formats to try to be accommodating to folks’ schedules and so we did it. A nine-hour program. We did three hours on Tuesday night, three hours on Wednesday night, and three hours on Thursday night. And man, that was fun we had so much engagement by our attendees. One of the things we do in that thriving dentist MBA workshop, the workshop is all about the ten elements of a thriving practice. We actually turn the workshop into a coaching experience and we do that two ways. We do it through exercises. So, each one of the elements, each one of them has an exercise. A simple exercise but it's something for our doctors and office managers to do in the workshop that will allow them to take the information and apply it to their practice and the second thing we do is throughout the entire course they're invited to submit questions and then we have specific time to have Q and A sessions to answer their questions and I know you were there the entire time there and helping me moderate it but man the engagement level was amazing and I feel like we are turning out ambassadors to go out and apply these ten elements in their practice and I felt really good about it and it was such a great experience. I can't wait till the one in July. Now July is a little bit different. Again, we're experimenting with formats. Same content but we're going to do it in two sessions and two four-hour sessions. So, four hours on Friday the 17th of July and then the following Friday we're going to complete the one-day workshop and that should be convenient for some and I just want to consider this an invitation to come join. If one of the elements of course is becoming less insurance dependent. So, if you listen to this podcast, you're going to absolutely treasure that one-day MBA because a big part of it is all about successfully reducing insurance dependence. Naren: Thank you so much Gary for that and I do think you're also doing a big service because you're not only offering this to people who don't know anything about the 24 elements and sort of 10 elements in the 24 systems but you extended it to your coaching clients. So, they now can train every one of their team members especially the office managers with these fundamental principles of how to run thriving practice. So, kudos to you for doing that and I really appreciate it, Gary! Gary: Man, it was fun and July we'll have a blast with that. So, if you like attending CE where you get lots of content and you also have a great time, I think you're going to love this. So, come join us and the pricing, because we're doing these live streams, we don't have airline expenses, we don't have hotel expenses, we don't have catering expenses and so we have cut the price to the bone and it's very affordable. I think it's probably the most affordable way to get six hours of CE that you could possibly take. So come join us. Naren: Let's jump in Gary. This is a question that I’ve seen maybe tens and tens of times maybe even a hundred times. How to handle patients who have a pattern of cancellations and no-shows? Gary: Naren, I would love to tell you that I don't know what you're talking about. We don't have cancellations and no-shows in life smiles and I would not be telling the truth if I said that. So, hey every prize, so if you feel like, oh my gosh we're just getting deluge with cancellation no-shows and that might not be true right now, right now, in the COVID era where you've been shut down for 7 10 12 weeks. We're not experiencing a high percentage of cancellation and no-shows and if we do, we've got a call list as long as our arm. So to get people in, but think back to February maybe beginning of March and if you are pulling your hair out because of cancellation and no-shows just know you've got a whole lot of company. I mean every practice has that, and I wanted to come up with some strategy to deal with it because it's a pattern that keeps happening and it's like what you do and we came up with something that  has worked brilliantly in our practice. It works brilliantly in our client base. Every time I share this with their clients their eyes get as big as saucers, they're like oh my gosh why did I not think of that, why did not I think of that. So Naren, is it okay if I dive right in? Naren: Yes please Gary: So, let's begin by recognizing that you have to start looking for patterns. If you have a patient that has routinely shown up for their appointments, I mean their pattern is that they're routinely showing up and then they have an aberration and they call you in the morning for a hygiene appointment and say, Carly, I'm  so sorry I have an afternoon appointment with Kelly this afternoon for hygiene and I'm not going to be able to make it. I just got called into an emergency meeting at work. I am so sorry I know I'm supposed to give you 48 hours’ notice and I just I didn't know until now. If I don't go to that meeting, I'm losing my job, now Naren can we recognize that that's different than a pattern of cancellation and no-shows? Naren: Absolutely Gary, yes! Gary: That's different and I think common sense for all of our listeners prevails in a situation like that. Say of course, thank you for the courtesy of the call we understand and then we're going to scramble to fill it, but now what do we do with George and I'm going to make it a male patient because it's more likely to be a male patient Naren: Yeah Gary: I hate to say it but it is, and I am going to make this example, George, and when we look at George’s record, he shows up maybe 20% of the time that we've made appointments for him. If you look at it in Reverse Naren: can I share, I'm going to put myself on the line here and Gary: Okay George, go ahead George Naren: so, we all have mindsets, right? We run our lives based on our mindsets, the way we think. In my mind if I have to choose between a meeting with Gary and my dental appointment, I am choosing my meeting with Gary. I'm being honest, right? Gary: I will take that as a compliment, Naren. Unless you were a life smiles patient and then oh man I get it Naren: So my problem is they typically ask me to book 6 months in advance. I don't know when I'm going to have these meetings that I really want to have because I have fun in it, I enjoy it. So usually what I tell my dental office is please call me a couple of weeks before. That way I can definitely make sure that I find a time when and I don't tell this to them when I don't have those fun meetings like the meetings I have with Gary, so that way it's easier for me because a week or two ahead of time all my meetings with you and now the other stuff that I enjoy is already in my calendar. Six months ago, if I asked you Gary when are we going to talk six months from now you won't be able to tell me. So, I'm one of those patients Gary who won't show up if you book an appointment with me six months in advance. I'm being honest. Gary: Well let's go back to fundamentals, Naren. Here's the fundamental on that one Naren: Yeah Gary: and I want to raise my hand and say Mia culpa I’ve been part of the problem on this and let me explain what I mean. In 1982, my goodness thirty-eight years ago, I was the guy that stood up and said nobody should leave your office without making their next hygiene appoint, their next hygiene appointment, and I started teaching that in 1980 and I said they're right in front of you and back then we didn't have in computers and so we had to get the book out the big book the big appointment  book where the scheduling team I would have to flip the pages six months out and she'd make you an appointment and I was the guy who said nobody leaves your office without making their next appointment and I taught that from 1982 to 2007, okay? Do the math on that pretty quickly. I believe that's 25 years. Naren: Right Gary: 1982 to 2007 and then I experienced in my own practice the mistake of that and how I discovered it was, I have to tell the story because it is imprinted on my mind. My office manager Stacy, we had a seven o'clock appointment and the seven o'clock appointment was Charlie Raggle. I know I'm violating HIPAA but Charlie won't be listening to this, so I think it's okay. Charlie's a football coach for Chaparral High School and he was there at seven o'clock in hygiene, and I was excited I happened to be in the office that day and I was excited that Charlie was coming in because I wanted to talk to him about setting up our are coming mouthguard project that we're going to be doing for the team and anyway 7 o'clock rolls around. No Charlie 7.05 rolls around no Charlie. 7:10 no Charlie and I walk up front and in my most emotionally intelligent manner I say Stacy, where's Charlie? She said Gary, I knew he wasn't coming. I said well Stacy if you knew he wasn't coming how come you made the appointment and without missing a beat she said because you told me to and I like aha I did guilty as charged because I told Stacy nobody leaves our office without making their next appointment. She said Gary Charlie, single guy, football coach. What does he care about? He cares about football. Naren: It's like me like I have other things that I have fun with I would rather go to the other stuff if I have a choice Gary: So, she said Gary I knew he wasn't coming and right then I said this is a teachable moment for Gary. Hey Stacy let's look at our digital schedule. Let's look later in the week. This was a Monday. Who else isn't coming? And she went right through the list and she identified about 10 hygiene patients that were highly likely of not coming, okay? Naren: And knew who these people are Gary: She knew it like I mean her instincts were amazing. So right then I made a shift I said quit reappointing everybody and what we learned after the fact that about 90% of the patients in any practice, you can appoint in advance whether it be three months, four months, for six months. But about 10% again that could vary your practice it could be 92% you for your point it could be 85 but it's in that range, it's in that range. In the 90% rate but for those 10% don't pound a square peg in a round hole. Don't pound a square peg in a round hole. Don't try to fit near in with your noted priorities and I'm not going to try to pound you and you, I’ll call you the square peg. I'm not going to pound the square peg in the round hole Naren: Right! Gary: Now that's one but now let's go to this ASAP list. Now let's play Naren and you're the guy that historically 20% of the time, you've shown up. So, here's what we do with you. We say Carly will say to you, hey Naren and this is after you've broken another appointment. We've no showdown another one, Carly will say Naren, I can't make appointments for you anymore because when I make appointments you don't show up. Now Carly has the best temperament tone of voice style to do this and nobody has ever felt insulted. They always say oh I know Carly I'm such a knucklehead, I know I know and then Carly says I get it, Naren, here's what we're to do. I'm going to put you on my VIP list. Now just I’ll come off the role playing for a minute. It's actually not the VIP list it's actually the what list and I won't say it because we want to keep our clean lyrics rating on iTunes but it's the other list that starts with a four-letter word list. But we are not going to tell you, we're going to say Naren, I'm going to put you, we care about you and we know if we see on a regular basis, we accomplish two things. We keep you as healthy as possible and reduce your future dental expenses. So, here's what I'm going to do. I'm going to put you on my VIP list. Here's what that means: let me make sure I have your current cell number. Oh, yep that's it, okay. Now I'm going to shoot you a text now and again. It'll be the text message, it'll be a text message, it'll be the same day. It might be an hour from now, it might be two hours, it might be five hours from now. But I'm going to send you a text message and the text message is basically going to say hey we can see you for a hygiene appointment at two o'clock. If you want it, text me back. Now understand I’ve got a few other VIPs. Now they're not quite as good a VIP as you Naren, but I’ve got a few other VIPs. So, if you want it to respond back quickly and so now, I want to knock on wood, Naren. So, my desk is made out of wood. I’m knocking on wood because I don't want to curse myself here. As of this very moment that we're recording this since we started doing that if we have at least an hour advan10ce notice at least an hour advance notice, we are 100% at filling that opening appointment later in the day. Now someday we will be able to say and notice I said at least no no's because this doesn't work for a no-show and here's why because by the time we know you're not coming and get the message out you don't have time to get there for the hygiene appointment, got it? Naren: Yep Gary: But this applies for the patients that will give you a courtesy of a call and many will. Then we can use the ASAP list. Now here's how you build your ASAP list. I want to be firm about this. It should have no more than 12 people on the list, 12, because if you send it to too many it will be overwhelming and if you send it to too few you might not be successful with it so 12 is the number, we tested it. 12 is the number. Half of those people, maybe six of them, will be people that would like to be seen sooner. They told you oh if someone was up call me, let me know. The other half are these chronic cancels or no showers. Now when we started this I had no idea if this was going to work but i've been surprised pleasantly at how often the people that fill those appointments are look at out of the chronic counsellors a no-shows because they're like you they're good people they just are not organized enough where their priorities aren't sorted enough to be able to keep an appointment three four six months in advance but meanwhile you're sitting, now this would be you, Naren because you're busy but maybe this guy George is sitting at Starbucks. He gets a text message from Carly, Hey George turns out we can see this afternoon or two. Let me know if you want it. Hey this works George text’s back and we found, I can't say a hundred percent but most of the time they are really loyal about keeping that appointment later in the day because it works for them Naren: Yeah Gary: That's how we've been able to fill those short notice cancellations, very simple. It's done with a group text that goes out and it goes out to those twelve people and it simply says hey we can see you this afternoon or if we know the hydrogen hey Kelly can see you this afternoon at two o'clock thought of you if you want this appointment text me back. Now, many times will two or three people want the appointment? We'll go to the first one but we get two or three and then we respond back to the other two or three and say too slow next time be quicker with fingers, okay? I will keep you in my list and it's a great way to handle those short notice cancellations. Now Naren: I have a quick question, Gary. See I hate people when they cancel on me and I hate to not show for appointments. So, I ain't on me. I'm very outspoken. So I literally fess up and say what, let's mark something six months in advance but knowing me can you do me a favor can you call me a couple of weeks I had just because I know when I booked something couple of weeks ahead I am rock-solid but it's just a little too advanced for me to kind of like for example there might be an even that I want to go a lot of things can happen in six months right. So, I don't know if I'm breaking the system. Is this kind of one of those crazy buckets that? Gary: You might be an exception to that because really, I want this to be the same day. Naren: Same day, okay! Gary: So you are probably not the right situation for this but I'm surprised at how many of our what we're calling VIP list patients Naren: Show up Gary: sure love this system. They respond back and it just so happens to work for them and because we've got 12, it is going to 12 people. Naren: Right Gary: You have got a 100 percent chance in finding one, all I need is one. Naren: one exactly Gary: Now again some details on this. You want to send out by text. You want to send it to 12 people and the message is just a simple straightforward message that says, it turns out Kelly can see us this afternoon at 3:00 thought of you, text me back if you want it, and that has quite literally solved our short notice cancellation problem in hygiene. It's quite literally solved it. Hey as we're kind of coming to the finish line here, Naren I want to share something with their listeners but I want to share with our listeners. We have an I love dentistry community, Facebook community. If you're listening to this and you're not part of the I Love dentistry Facebook community, let me invite you to come join us. It's a private Facebook group. It's doctors and office managers and team members. Come join us and you can go to I Love Dentistry on Facebook and you have to request admittance it's a closed group just say you're a listener to the less insurance dependence podcast show. We will let you in. We will give you a secret key and will let you in and we'd love to have you join us. It's a group. It's all about what the name says it's people that absolutely love dentistry and we're there as a supportive community, lift one another up to share information and it's a place to go to recharge your batteries when you need that and to connect with an amazing group of people that'll be your new best friends but recently one of our community members posted something very cool. Naren you'll remember that she said hey Gary, hey Naren I just over the weekend binge listened to a whole bunch of less insurance dependence podcasts and I can't wait to apply this in my practice and so she discovered and I don't know if she's a new podcast listener or something but she discovered that she could download all of the episodes. As this one's coming out, I think this one might be episode 91. 91 or 92 something like that, but all of those episodes can be downloaded and she kind of did like a Netflix binge listening exercise and she had all kinds of cool information she's going to plan her practice. So if you haven't done this, know that you can download all of the episodes, they're free, and it's our way to help you successfully reduce insurance dependents. We're creating a grassroots movement. I'm all about preserving private practice dentistry and we want you to be part of that and please, if you haven't done it already download any of the episodes, they're all free and maybe you could be one of those binge listeners as well. Well listen. Thank you, guys thanks for, joining us we appreciate each and every one of our listeners here on the less insurance dependence podcast. Thanks so much. If you haven't done so, there are three things you can do to support our work here. You can share less insurance dependence with your friends. Maybe some of your friends don't know about this. Share it with them. Secondly you can jump on iTunes under less insurance dependence and write us a review. That'll help more dentists find us. By the way, for those of you that have written recent reviews, thank you so much and then the third thing you can do is you can hit subscribe. If you hit subscribe you can do that on iTunes or Google Play. That means that every Thursday when we upload a new episode, it'll be automatically uploaded for your listening device, for your listening convenience. Thank you so i'll add note let me simply say thanks we consider your time to be precious and I hope we've shared some useful information with you today.

[00:00:25] What's going on. Downline automation, radio family. I, I was a little late to get that transition, to get me on the screen. If you're watching on YouTube or Facebook. Hey, how are you? Good to see ya. Hey, I am very, very excited. I did not have a lot of time to talk today. Unfortunately, there's ton going on right now. [00:00:43] I have a lot of exciting announcements to make. I finished my application funnel it's up and running, and I'm very excited about it. I think it looks amazing. I think it provides tremendous, tremendous value. I don't know how to share it with you though, without promoting my own MLM. And that's not what, like I promised you guys, I won't do that. [00:01:07] Right. So I'm not going to share that URL with you where you can find the thing, but I really want you to see it and see how it works. And I'm trying to work through that in my mind. Okay. Listen. I can't think of any other way to do this. How can I do there's no other way to do this. This is not a pitch. [00:01:23] Okay. It's not a pitch. This is not a, Hey, join my MLM. I just want to show it to you. Is that fair? Okay. I'm not asking you to join my Maya. If you're in your MLM and you're happy. Great more power to you. Stay there. Not, not trying to get you to come to me, but I want to show you how this works, how the process works from listening to this podcast, to getting put on an email list, to, purchasing a course. [00:01:47] So an upgrade course to application funnel where, how this all fits together. And I want to share it with you just because I think it's very cool. Promise me, you won't get mad about this. Okay. Like this is not like a game changer. If it's going to be a game changer for you to know where my application funnel is, skip this episode. [00:02:08] How about that? Is that fair? Is that fair? Okay. It's at www.jointhismlm.com. My one time, I'm going to say it and that's it. You can find it there, but, I'm very excited about it. Cause it has the opportunity for people to get to know me, to understand what I'm bringing to the table. Now, this funnel is already designed, understanding that people are already familiar with me, familiar with how I build the MLM business. [00:02:43]and they want to work with me. Okay, so that, that's what I'm bringing to the table. Okay. This is not listed on Google. You can't like Google this, it won't show up in search engines. based on, on SEO, like I've, I've removed it from that intentionally. I don't want people just coming to this and seeing it and being confused and not understanding. [00:03:06] I want them to go through a process to get to this page so that when they get there, They're ready to go. Like they're all right. They're chomping at the bits. I don't want cold or warm traffic going to this site. I want hot traffic going to the site. I want people who want to work with me, who are excited to work with me and are ready to just like, yeah, like, let's go like join hands. [00:03:32] Like let's let's apply. So. That's what this is. This is an application funnel where you do have to apply to work with me. And all of the stuff is in there. I've got a really, really super cool strategy going on. When you scroll down just a little bit, you can see the people as they're applying that updates every five minutes. [00:03:55] It's real time. It's real people applying to work on my team. They go there, they sign up. And that information is then uploaded up onto, a, a Google Excel spreadsheet and that Google Excel spreadsheet is then transferred so that no private information, no information that people might be sensitive to, that I'm asking in the, application funnel they are, then, That's then like filtered out and put into this, spread into another spreadsheet, which is then presented that you see on the website. [00:04:27] I'm so proud of it. I love it. I think it looks amazing. I'm so excited by it. and then there's the stack. Like I think the stack is really valuable as you go further down, just telling you what you're going to get by working with me and, and all the things that I'm going to be providing for you over $13,000 worth of stuff, frankly, it could be worth a little bit more. [00:04:46]but I didn't want to make an unbelievable some of the stuff. So that's, that's kind of the numbers that I'm working on. I may change some of this as we go, but, that's it that's it for the front page and it goes so well. And then from there they put in their email and their, and some information for them so I can call them and finish off the, the signup process. [00:05:05] If I want to, or if they're ready to get started right away, they can do it through the webpage. They don't even have to talk to me and we can get started right away. So. That's the first bit of big news. Wow. That is a good one. That application funnel is a game changer. I'm telling you people, when people start implementing this, it's going to bring so much professional believability to your business no longer are you asking people to work with you? [00:05:34] They're asking to work with you. It's a complete, complete reversal. It's easier to pull a rope, right? Like that old story of, you know, the, the sailor trying to curl up the rope he's brand new. He doesn't know what he's doing. He's a 12 year old kid. He's just on the docks for his first day. And the old seasoned sailor tells him to curl up this, this or the rope. [00:05:55] And he's trying to push the rope into a coil. Doesn't work that way. The old sailor grabs his hands and shows him and pulls the rope so much easier to pull a rope. It's so much easier to work with people who want to work with you by polling them, instead of pushing yourself onto them, which is what all the hun bots out there are doing. [00:06:15] Okay. And I'm not for that. I don't want to do that. I don't want anybody else to do that. It is an awful strategy. I don't like it. If you've listened to this podcast even a little bit, you know, I that's just not for me. Does it work? Yes. Is it the best way? Debatable, highly debatable. Okay. So I'm very excited about this because I'm only going to be talking to and working with people who want to work with me, who have gone through my entire funnel series and found their way to this point where they want to work with me. [00:06:47] And if that's not you totally cool. I get that. Please take the strategies, implement them yourself. Work with where you're at. That's totally fine. That's totally, totally cool. That's not the whole point of this podcast. This podcast is to educate you on a new way, on a new idea, a new philosophy of building this business and how powerful it can be for you as an entrepreneur and what this can change for you. [00:07:11] So don't go to this site, please. Don't go to the site and just like, fill it out just to hack it or whatever. Like this is an actual working site. Like I don't want. To have your information. If, if you're not serious about working with me, It's not a hundred percent on. I have not written all of the followup emails that go along with this site. [00:07:31] I'm building out the membership site. That's going to be a part of this. the first page is done and we should have that absolutely completed by the end of July. my partner is, is doing all the filming and stuff like that. And, it's going to be really good. It's going to be really good. I'm laying out all the funneling and stuff like that for the flow and how it all works. [00:07:49]and, that'll be up and running any minute. Now, like I said, in the next 30 days, probably in the next week, we should start actually having the site up and running with the training and we'll just be filling it out at that point. So, we're ready to go. We're a hundred percent live at this point. [00:08:03] I'm so fired up guys. This is so great. So now. The first step in my process has been this, get the podcast up and running so I can start educating people about this idea. Start bringing people into my world, getting, getting them into email lists, getting them excited about what I'm doing. Okay. I've other strategies of which I'm recruiting and selling a front end lead in a squeeze page where I have an offer. [00:08:29] I'm also going to be creating a summit. In summer and September, it looks like the last three days in September, I'll be going to be putting a summit together with other leaders, in the network marketing space who are doing incredible things. Some of them building the business the way I do, some of them building the business old school, some of them building it with social media, all sorts of different ideas, all coming together about how to recruit people. [00:08:53]In in this industry. And, I'm very excited about that. That's going to be huge too. So I have like a bunch of leaves out there that I'm bringing people into my world and exposing them to my ideas and my concepts. And then, I'm offering, a course, basically teaching the, the basics. Right. [00:09:10] And, and intro one Oh one class, basically, if you will, to automation and it's called, MLM MythBusters. and we're going to be selling that again soon. we're revamping it, making it even better, and it was great beforehand. We, all the testimonials that we got so far from that thing are, are absolutely, breathtaking from my perspective, I was like, wow, I'm really blown away by how blown away they are. [00:09:32]and I'm really proud of it. I'm very excited to continue to develop that. So we're going to develop that out even more this summer and put that back on the market, make it available for everybody. So that you're kind of getting like a, a watered down, not a watered down version, but a scrubbed version of all of, all of our personal, like I'm in an MLM. [00:09:50] So it will be all the training, the MLM training without mentioning which MLM I'm in. Okay. And we'll be selling that for those of you who, who love what I'm doing and are very excited about what I'm doing. That'll be selling that entire course for you. and you'll be able to use that however you choose to. [00:10:06] So there's a lot happening right now and that's why I'm so busy. I took two weeks off, just to rest and recuperate and get ready for this big charge. I was frankly, burnt out and I needed to take some time for myself. and that's what I love about this is because while I was resting and recuperating and spending time with my family and, you know, just clearing my head. [00:10:25] My list still grew. There were still some of you who signed up for my list. Thank you so much, by the way. Love having you here. I'm so glad that you're listening and enjoying this content, but I'm so, so fired up about this application funnel, guys. This thing is a game changer. I don't, I don't want you to just go through this, hack it for yourself. [00:10:45] Maybe what I'll do. I'll I'll probably put up, I'll probably make one available in the email list. So if you're not on my email list, Sign up. and I'll find a way to, I'll find a way to, to, to, to modify that. So that there's a link so that you can get, a copy, basically, a stripped down copy with, you know, all, all the important parts. [00:11:06] And you just have to put in your own information and videos and stuff like that. The video, by the way, I'm super pumped about the video, for our business plan that we put together. This thing is automated so brilliantly. We took a, I'm not going to tell you that I'm not going to tell you that cause it's so good. [00:11:26] I don't want that out yet. That's going to be a, that's going to be a team secret for a little while before I released that. To be honest with you, I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna just give that one away. Listen, check it out. Check out the website. I promised I wouldn't say it again. So if you are curious, rewind back and check out the website. [00:11:44] And, and, and just look at it, if you want to, just to kind of give yourself an idea, but I'm very excited, for this, for this thing. and I, I hope you are too. I hope you're excited to put this in for your team so that you stop working with people. You gotta, you gotta push, you gotta push them to go do something. [00:11:59] It's like, come on, get out of there. Go, go talk to somebody, go, go, sell something, go, go create some volume, go, go sponsor somebody. You get exhausted doing that. Don't stop. Don't be the young sailor. Be the smart. Kraft, the older sailor who pulls the rope. Okay. That's my, that's my message to you. Thank you so much for listening. [00:12:16] I'm so excited for, all the great feedback I've been getting on the podcast and, and all the new listeners. Thank you so much for sharing the podcast. I really do appreciate that. it helps every little bit helps and, let's change this industry for the better, so that we're, you know, We're we're doing good things in the meantime. [00:12:32] Have a great day, everybody. [00:12:39] Hey, thanks for listening. Please remember to subscribe and leave feedback. Would you like a copy of the book that changed everything in my network marketing business? If so you can get a free copy of network marketing secrets at downlineautomation.com.  

As we round the 4th of July holiday, we've all celebrated George Washington as the first President of the United States, the general who lead the Continental Army against the British, and the second or third most popular character in the Broadway play "Hamilton." However, did you ever think of George Washington as an entrepreneur? Economist John Berlau has thought about that AND how Washington's entrepreneurship aspirations molded both his vision as a future leader, and our country. Today he's with us to share stories from Washington's life, including how he became an entrepreneur, and some of his most prominent contributions to our country. If you're a history fan, entrepreneur, or just someone who wants to learn how the best-and-brightest made their way, today's show is for you. Of course, that's not all. We'll discuss the recent issues with the economy and your 401(k) plan. It turns out that you can still become a 401(k) millionaire. There's no need to get overly creative with your financial plan. That'll be good news for most of us. Plus, we'll talk estate planning. When someone chooses you to manage their affairs when they pass away, what should you do? For some of you we'll preview our best tips, and for everyone else, we'll share what you should think about when choosing an executor or contingent trustee. Don't know those terms? We'll even share what that means on today's show for no charge! Of course, we also save time for Doug's fireworks, including his trivia AND incredible wit. It's a kick-butt first show back for the SB team, and we're glad you're hanging out with us. Check out the show notes for ALL of the links in today's show!

Too many of today's celebrities think they are hot stuff and can just create a game show. On top of that, some of them think they are real funny and make jokes about the contestants on their game show. Luckily, the world's three foremost experts on game shows are here to knock those celebs down a peg. Catch us and our big stoic rock on Thursday nights on ABC getting hurt and bawling for minutes at a time. That'll teach Ryan Reynolds a lesson in trying to be funny. Zach plans to yell obscenities at Deadpool, Jared insists that spicy food is torture, and Adam has a lot of favorite rocks. Talking Points Include: Expanding Our Market, Enjoy The World Tonight, The Great Spicy Torture Debate, Celebrity Summer Camp, Our Favorite Rocks, The Working Class, Replacing Mount Rushmore, Eliminating The Fun, Lots of Crying

Daniel Egli is the Chief Financial Officer at Russell Stover Chocolates, based in Kansas City.  His journey began in Switzerland where be grew up and worked out of college.   Egli worked for Proctor and Gamble for 14 years mostly in his native Switzerland before moving to Boston to serve as head of financial planning and analysis for P&G.   He was hired by Russell Stover in December of 2017 as CFO, responsible for finance and accounting, procurement, supply chain planning and IT.   Joel spoke with Daniel about his responsibilities, leadership and the culture at Russell Stover.   TRANSCRIPT: Joel Goldberg: My guest on this episode is Daniel Egli. He is the Chief Financial Officer at Russell Stover chocolates and we have had this podcast scheduled in the works for a very long time. Joel Goldberg: We just didn't think when we scheduled it that will be we will be in these times, but that's the world that we're living in Daniel, thanks for joining the podcast. Daniel Egli: Thank you Joel, for having me.  Joel Goldberg: It’s good to it's good to catch up. And I know way back to normal times you and I went for coffee on the plaza. And we had bad at an event before that.  Joel Goldberg: So I do, as is the case on this podcast and I've told you this I like to think more, you know, big picture bigger concept. So I don't want to get too tied up with with how things are going. But we'll talk about it a little bit because, as this is released. Joel Goldberg: A little bit after we've recorded this you know people are still adjusting to these times, and new normals, but how have you through all this and with your, your position of Russell Stover handled all the changing times. Daniel Egli: It’s been it's been crazy, you know, we've been working from home now for two months, it's certainly been a big change. Daniel Egli: But, you know, on a positive note. The think, you know, we're still making chocolate and the business keeps on going. The organization has definitely adapted well working remotely. And on a personal note, they've enjoyed spending more time with my family. So, so there's positives as well. Joel Goldberg: There’s positives to everything. I really believe that. And I know for Joel Goldberg: For some situations, many situations, that's easier said than done, but the family time truly has been great. My wife was talking about that recently. I mean, I'm never home.  I was home for Mother's Day from, from the moment we woke up to the moment we went to bed versus if I was lucky to be in town. Joel Goldberg: You know there for a couple hours and then hopefully home for dinner. So there's been a lot of positives to, you know, you said something that's interesting to me, you said, while we're still making chocolate. And I think that when when there's a lot of stress eating going on. Joel Goldberg: You know, and so I find myself. Definitely having more of a sweet tooth and you know that maybe maybe a few extra Bourbons is my choice and definitely a lot of a lot of chocolate but I assume that you are seeing plenty of demand for your product still Daniel Egli: Yeah, I mean, people still eat chocolate in these times maybe even, even more so in these times, right, I mean you maybe want to treat yourself. Daniel Egli: More and more often, when you say that. Oh, man. Yeah, well, that's, that's what we're here for. Joel Goldberg: Exactly. That's what you're here for. So there's so much I want to talk to you about in terms of your background. Joel Goldberg: And also in terms of culture of Russell Stover that was really the the original reason for why I wanted to have you on I'll, I'll preface, all of this by saying that you and I met at an event. Joel Goldberg: And you may remember now better than me. I feel like it was February I don't, I don't remember, but it's right. Yeah, yeah. I've been, you know, a while back. Joel Goldberg: And it was funny because I was moderating a panel of a bunch of executives, I was Scott havens, who many people know how to organize this at mariner wealth and Scott's with hub international and it was that marriage or wealth and he talked about what what I was going to ask everybody, you know, kind of going Joel Goldberg: Down the line in terms of answers and perspectives and in front of an audience. Joel Goldberg: And I think one of the questions was a baseball themed question in the front. I could see and hear the panic in your voice about it. Do I need to talk about baseball and and I assured, you know. And that was true for even now podcast that has the title rounding the bases. So this isn't important. But I figured my listeners will get a kick out of it on a scale of one to 10. What is your baseball knowledge. Daniel Egli: Well, I'm still probably like two or three, I would say.  Joel Goldberg: Better. It was my way of leading to the fact that you are, for sure. The first guest that I had on the show that is from Switzerland, and I'm sure that that people heard the accent a little bit. So can you give a little bit of a background of how you ended up in the states and then eventually a Russell Stover as as a kid that grew up in Switzerland. Daniel Egli: Yeah, sure, sure. Well, I've been here in Kansas City with Russell Stover since December 17 but I actually worked out of Boston before joining Russell Stover So working with Gillette as part of the Procter and Gamble company I've been with Procter and Gamble for about 14 years working mostly in Europe, Geneva Zurich spent some time in the UK and then Daniel Egli: Joined the Gillette business unit in Boston. So that's how I love to the United States. And then I was approached the you know about the the opportunity of Russell Stover that's that's kind of how I got to Kansas City certainly never thought that would you know, live in Kansas City. But here I am enjoying it. Joel Goldberg: Yeah, I mean, it's always one of my favorite questions, not so much where you live, but just, could you have envisioned doing what you're doing when you grew up, or maybe better phrased. What were what were the dreams of the young Daniel Egli. Daniel Egli: Well you know I as a high school student I spent a year in Canada, an exchange some year and ever since I have this desire to, you know, experience other countries and not just travel, they were on vacation, but also live and work in other countries. So Daniel Egli: Since then, I was really aiming to have a an international career. And when I finished my studies join Procter and Gamble, which, you know, as you know, is an international company that offers. International career opportunities so was kind of from a pretty young age on my desire. Joel Goldberg: So I'll backtrack, just a little bit and I would I would assume that Canada, much more similar to the United States than Switzerland or maybe not, I'm not sure.  Daniel Egli: No, it is very similar to the United States. All that I think many Canadians like to make highlight the differences, but yes. It's pretty similar in terms of the lifestyle that we see the language. Same where i where i was i was in the western part of Canada so Joel Goldberg: It was speaking part of where we're in. We're in Western Canada where you and I wasn't in Vancouver Island. Okay. Joel Goldberg: Beautiful, beautiful. Yes. Yeah, sounds sound awful. And I remember you talking about that when we went for coffee truly one of the most beautiful areas in all of North America. Daniel Egli: For anyone and and for me, having I've got really two connections. I guess to Canada one Daniel Egli: I like to call myself quarter Canadian which basically translates into my grandmother emigrated to Canada, when she was a kid and she was the only one in a big family that ended up in the United States. Daniel Elgi: Once she got married and all the rest of them. To this day, if they're alive or their, their offspring are still in Canada. So, you know, we would go up to Canada from time to time. Not as much now. Joel Goldberg: As kids and then having a covered a lot of hockey for years. So I go up there and I've been a pretty much all the NHL cities and then we go in normal years. Not this year, I guess. Joel Goldberg: We go to Toronto once a year. So it is a, it's a different world up there. But that's still a lot of similarities to to hear what what did that experience for you in molding you being an exchange student very far from home. How did that multi think to where you're at today. Daniel Egli: Well, you know, I think it has a pretty big impact on the young person. I mean, you're definitely way out of your comfort zone when you you know I was 17 years old when I when I left there and Daniel Egli: You, you obviously learn to kind of find your own way and the become more independent more mature. So yeah, I mean it certainly had a big impact. The think for me personally, I made a big step forward in that year and that I noticed that when I came back and you know you Daniel Egli: Kind of, talk to your friends that were in the same place during that time and the, you know, this kind of, okay, how, how far you've come as a, as a person, how much you've developed mature. Joel Goldberg: Was the was the interest in finance and obviously the chief finance officer at at Russell Stover now. And, you know, have all the financial history from Procter and Gamble and even before that, what was it always a Joel Goldberg: Driver a passion to go towards, towards that. And the things the finance world. Daniel Egli: I studied international business. So I was not something that I had in mind. At the very beginning when I when I entered university but Daniel Egli: Yeah, it says just kind of through kind of trial and error different internships and you know different conversations kind of ended up in the in that in that area. Joel Goldberg: And it's so now here you are in the, in the world of chocolate. Chocolate needs finance, I guess, and and so You know, you said before you never envisioned that you would end up in Kansas City, but not only you in Kansas City, you're working for a very famous company what what do you love about working in Russell Stover and beyond the chocolate. Joel Goldberg: Which probably everybody that you know asks about chocolate or or that type of stuff. You got to be a very popular guy at Christmas time, I would imagine what what what do you like about working at Russell Stover Daniel Egli: You know, I, you know, it's certainly a very interesting brand has been around for 100 years It's we're currently going through a transformation, really, you know, there's a lot of changes that happened in terms of consumer preferences, the way Daniel Egli: You know shoppers shop nowadays. So it's really for me comes down to making an impact on a on a brand that consumers love that they know that has a long history and really having that impact and, you know, Daniel Egli: Hopefully, you know, to the positive sense that, you know, finding a profitable way to grow in the future and the to continue to Daniel Egli: The to make a good chocolates that PETA. People want so so that's what it comes down to, for me, and how, how have things changed. I mean, Joel Goldberg: Nothing obviously in the world. I'm not talking about pandemic, but nothing in the world today is the same for a company that was around 100 years ago would have been sort of the biggest changes. Joel Goldberg: In recent years for Russell Stover and the challenges of of keeping up with the time so i mean i chocolate good chocolates good chocolate. Joel Goldberg: That I hope and would think would never change. But, but I know it's not that simple either Daniel Egli: Yeah, no, definitely. I mean, you can look at this from different angles. I mean, there's, you know, the competitive landscape has changed so consumers have different choices. Daniel Egli: Nowadays, there's new new products, new brands on the market. So that's, that's one aspect. Daniel Egli: And then the other aspect is also how people shop. You know, if you know probably even now it's it's it's even accelerating, but people shop in a different way. Nowadays, many people shop online or they they go to different retailers. So that's also something that we need to adjust to and adapt. Joel Goldberg: Again, I think that it helps when you have a brand name, An institutional name like a Russell Stover that Joel Goldberg: Nothing's guaranteed right i mean good product and everything you're talking about matters but but what does it mean to have the Russell Stover name Daniel Egli: Well, I think it's a huge asset. I mean, it's, it's a, you know, it's something. It's a brand that consumers trust that consumers know and i think that's that's an asset that we're You know, we're capitalizing on. I mean we we have a big opportunity, I think in terms of, you know, the brand awareness and Daniel Egli: You know, obviously focused on bringing new innovation that that help us grow in the future. One of those examples is sugar free, sugar free businesses doing Daniel Egli: phenomenally well and has been doing well for the last few years. And I think that's just one of the aspects that is in our favor in terms of changing consumer tastes and demands that we can satisfy Joel Goldberg: You obviously have a big role at Russell Stover and to the topics that I love to talk about certainly on this podcast and then also to Joel Goldberg: You know, to audiences when I'm speaking our leadership and culture. Both are obviously elements that are extremely important to you in your world. My first question to you regarding that is about leadership and Joel Goldberg: One, how, how many people are you overseeing and then the maybe the deeper question and one that I always like to ask is, when you come into a new role when you're new to an organization. Joel Goldberg: I'm always fascinated by those initial discussions and you know how you build trust with your team and and you know adapt to that situation and Joel Goldberg: And being the new guy, so to speak. So how many people, and what were those early days like for you.  Daniel Egli: Yeah, well, you know, I’m besides finance also responsible for it procurement and supply chain planning. So it's a group of about a little over 100 people Daniel Egli: Mostly based here in Kansas City and and yeah you know the first few days, I have to say that was a you know it's it's it was a big change for me. You know, I Daniel Egli: I worked for the same company for you know 14 years and, you know, you kind of know the culture, you know, even even go to a different office. They're always kind of commonalities and Daniel Egli: You know when you change company, obviously you don't have that familiarity. So, so it was you know spent a lot of time talking to different people meeting people and It's so obviously a lot of new information you have to absorb and a lot of it has to do with getting to know the organization, besides getting to know the business, obviously. Joel Goldberg: And then what for you were the keys in building those relationships with your employees as, as I'm sure they're sitting there saying, you know, who Joel Goldberg: Who is this. Who is this new guy and you know, and this guy isn't from here and and of course you've been in the States, a long time, but I don't care. Joel Goldberg: I don't care if you're coming from another place and other shop in town. You're the new guy and everybody's looking Joel Goldberg: You know, what's my new boss, like what is, what is it going to be like to interact with. So what are, what were some of the strategies that you had coming in to build that rapport with your people. Daniel Egli: And you know, it's, it's, you know, I've tried to be very open and, you know, communicate the log to share Daniel Egli: Share with my organization more about my background where I'm at, where I am as a person what what my values are so that really making an extra effort to share more about me so they they know you know Daniel Egli: me as a person and and also being open, you know, really. Daniel Egli: Having an open to also encouraging people to to come up when they have questions or when they have an issue and and yeah, trying to do everything I could to to get the communication going and to maybe yeah, make make make people comfortable in speaking coming up with to me.  Joel Goldberg: I Want to go back to a little bit of the pandemic, as we're recording this. What have been some of your strategies in terms of communication in a world that we're living in which, which has been dominated by zoom or whatever your, you know, whatever your choice platform is Daniel Egli: Yeah. Well, we certainly spent more time communicating. So we, you know, it starts with the executive team where we have a daily connect instead of just the weekly Daniel Egli: Meeting and then with my team as well. It's just, you know, spending quite a lot of time connecting with people. One on one or in smaller groups and making sure that Daniel Egli: Yeah, we all kind of stay connected we know what we're working on and and not only from a business standpoint, but also checking in how people have people doing you know it's it's obviously it's been this this stressful time and people Daniel Egli: Process this in different ways. You have the full spectrum you have some people that are worried about the virus situation you have others that are less so. So it's just kind of figuring that out and Daniel Egli: That's kind of the approach I took.  Joel Goldberg: I think you're there been so many lessons to learn in this to our their elements of communication or the way that they you have gone about your business. During these these unique times I guess I could call it that, that you'll take and not just learn from but but implement or other elements of what's going on now. That'll be part of the future. Daniel Egli: And you know, I think. So we have more shorter meetings, but more frequent which I have to say, that's fine. Shorter meetings to be more productive. And that's, that's something that I think that I would want to continue Daniel Egli: I think also having giving people flexibility, you know, maybe having giving people more room to work from home. When they when they need to, or when they want to, because I think we've shown that we can get the work done. Productivity, I think, is still in a good place. And I think that that is something that is of value. Joel Goldberg: Yeah, I'm completely fascinated by what this looks like, you know, next year, five year whenever this is all done. Joel Goldberg: Just the way the world changes and you know the way office space changes and communication and all that we've certainly had our eyes open. Joel Goldberg: To a lot of different elements. Oh, one more thing pandemic related to a minute. I think what you know is so interesting about these times, is this is not just a Joel Goldberg: A certain cities problem or a certain countries problem. Everyone in some form or another is dealing with this around the world. What do you hear from back home in Switzerland. Daniel Egli: And yeah, it looked at said it's a similar situation is here. People you know restaurants were closed shops were closed are now starting to to reopen Daniel Egli: I think it's fairly similar. I have to say it was not as strict as the situation in Italy. So, you know,  Not, not quite as bad as that but the I think pretty comparable to how things were handled here in Kansas City area. Joel Goldberg: All right, I want to get to my baseball themed questions which once again I assured Daniel would not be baseball questions. I assure that to every guest but Joel Goldberg: If he is saying that the baseball knowledge is somewhere around a two or three out of 10 this will not be anything about baseball strategy. Joel Goldberg: baseball predictions or anything of that matter. I'm in the baseball prediction business, I guess, and I give up after what's going on during the pandemic. I'm not going to try either, but the baseball theme question is this. Professionally speaking Joel Goldberg: You know, in all your years and I'm, I'm looking through the LinkedIn profile and whether it be the 14 years of Procter and Gamble, I should I should do a quick sidebar here. Joel Goldberg: It says that you are a financial analyst know three to five for financial animal analysis and planning Western Europe denture care and whitening. I didn't so Joel Goldberg: That's that's unique background for a guy that found Russell Stover I would think. Daniel Egli: Yeah, well, let's say it was a interesting business to work on. Definitely. Yeah. Joel Goldberg: That was the maybe one of the stars of the career. Like, I guess. Yes. Many years ago, so I'm assuming that that's not the big home run. Joel Goldberg: But the question, what's the biggest home run. You've had professionally in your career or in Joel Goldberg: In layman's or non baseball terms would spend the biggest moment for you. What's been that you know that the huge impactful moment in your career. Daniel Egli: Yeah, sure. Well, you know, I, I would say that, you know, I've been very fortunate to grow throughout my career and, you know, assuming Daniel Egli: More responsibilities as I changed into different roles. So I would say that at any you know those different stages, there were always kind of those homerun moments, but you know when I reflected this today, I would certainly say that you know I love the role that I'm in right now. Daniel Egli: For me, you know, being able to shape the direction the strategy of real Stover and starting to see the results of that work that's that's been hugely satisfying. You know, we had a good year in 2019 in terms of the business results. And also, frankly, from an organization standpoint. So you know we measure that organization health via a survey quarterly survey. Daniel Egli: And, you know, we've made some really good progress. And that's, you know, I'm proud of that the progress that we're able to make here at Russel Stover. Joel Goldberg: Okay, so that's the the positives. Let's go to the negative, which I don't necessarily view as a negative i. The swing and miss question to me. Joel Goldberg: Is essentially a learning experience. You know what, what, what's something you missed on that you learn from. And I think we grow from those that that's my personal opinion. So what's a big swing and miss. You've taken in your career. And what did you learn from this Daniel Egli: Well, I would say that, you know, some of the most important decisions I make our people relate to them, you know, hiring decision. Daniel Egli: And moving people into different roles, maybe for all being the responsibilities. So, you know, as you do that, you obviously take risks and you know in many, many times. This worked out well. But, you know, obviously it's not the 100% success rate. Daniel Egli: So sometimes those decisions don't work out as planned, and You know that's that's what I would say to that to the learning for me, you know, in terms of hiring. For instance, you know, there's certainly and methods to, you know, how you conduct an interview, there's Daniel Egli: Certain best practices. You can follow in terms of having several people interview person references, etc. But I think there's also the maybe the the less tangible part which is maybe your, your gut feel. And your, your instincts that I feel are equally important as you as you make those decisions. And that's certainly something that, you know, over the years, and Daniel Egli: I have kind of improved on our learned on from from experience.  Joel Goldberg: Yeah, I just want to follow up on that, because that's that's always fascinating to me too. How much, how much do you weigh that gut feeling. Daniel Egli: Well, you know, I, I'm more an analytical person and focus more on kind of the facts and all that, but I think there is an element of judgment because obviously when you interview people you only see them for a very limited amount of time and Joel Goldberg: Some people are very articulate and others maybe struggle a little bit more right to convince you in a in a short period of time. So I think that's, that's something that over time. I, I kind of refined, more and I find that I could be more maybe use that for the more I rely more on my instinct now than I did earlier in my career. Definitely. Yeah. Joel Goldberg: So intrigued by that. Just on a side note, because in the baseball one. I think it's true in anything you have sort of your Joel Goldberg: Non numbers go by the gut. In in in athletics. It's usually the former players that they trust their eyes and then you might have sort of the younger or the new school that that have the numbers. And what happens over time is Joel Goldberg: Eventually, those that trust the numbers. Joel Goldberg: Will start to go a little bit of the gut instinct and those that that live on the instinct start to learn more about the numbers and he kind of start to marry some of that together, so it's Joel Goldberg: I think if there's always kind of a, a harmony to that when you can when you can when you can blend it all together and use it all as tools. So this is my take. But Joel Goldberg: The final baseball. Question is what I call the culture question and and and I'd like to put it in terms of Russell Stover because I’m I'm interested in in the culture there. We know about chocolate but it's small ball. Meaning, what are the little things. Joel Goldberg: That add up to the big things in baseball terms. It's not all about the homerun I call it you know the little bits of foundation. What make you who you are or culture, the backbone of the company. What is small ball. What are the little things that matter at Russell Stover Daniel Egli: Yeah, I think you're, you're right, the kind of the link to culture, you know, Daniel Egli: So reflected on that. I think it's really walking the talk and culture. You know, we have a Daniel Egli: We have documented our values, our culture. You know, it's a nice piece of paper, but in the end. What really matters is that the day today and how you show up with your team and how the rest of the leadership team shows up with their teams. Daniel Egli: So it's really the small things that you do, day in, day out, that are consistent with those values that we have all agreed on. So that could be, you know, sending a thank you note to somebody who's done a nice job or recognizing somebody in a town hall meeting. Daniel Egli: Things like that is small, small things that are, you know, it's just consistency point consistency with the values and that's what that's what I would highlight i think that's that's the important aspect of the culture, not so much what you say it is, but it's what you do, day in, day out. Joel Goldberg: Really interesting and couldn't agree more. So that's it. Joel Goldberg: It's my favorite question actually, because there's never one simple answer to that everybody has so many different perspectives, but Joel Goldberg: I haven't heard a lot of the you know the handwritten note or the personalization and all that and and how far it goes. Okay. Joel Goldberg: For final questions I have not discussed these with you and else I don't say that in any way to to scare you, or anything like that but Joel Goldberg: Oftentimes these are and it's what I call my rounding the basis for final questions there. They can be light hearted, they might not be. But they're, they're kind of things that popped into my head. Joel Goldberg: As I'm going over the course of an interview. And so the the first one that that I would ask you is, in terms of sports. We talked about Joel Goldberg: Not growing up with baseball. I actually, I think I asked you this in person. But what was the sport. What were the sports growing up that you enjoyed in Switzerland. Daniel Egli: Well, I used to play handball when it was young and then it was a little bit older in high school I started playing rugby and picked it up in Canada and played that when it came back. Daniel Egli: So those are the sports a it actively I was a ski. I like outdoor sports hiking, skiing,dabble a little bit and golf, although not very successfully. Joel Goldberg: It sounds like you and I could golf together. Because, because, because dabbling is being generous. For me, it never goes well, but it's still fun so it's it's nice to get outside always Joel Goldberg: Say that much. Okay, the obvious question. My second question is we round the bases favorite, favorite product or chocolate. Joel Goldberg: For you at Russell Stover assuming that you do enjoy chocolate.  Daniel Egli: I do enjoy chocolate. Yeah, well, you know, the, the, the product when when I Daniel Egli: Start with your product that most surprised me was our sugar free products and they test taste really surprisingly good. I mean, considering they don't contain any sugar. It's Stevia sweetened so I really love our sugar free line. Joel Goldberg: And like I would agree with that and an important one. By the way, too. Right. I mean, in, in a world with Joel Goldberg: With you know diabetes and other issues that that that becomes a great option for for so many third question, as we round the bases. It's more of a geography or culture question actually two biggest differences and similarities to Kansas City and Switzerland. Daniel Egli: In Terms of culture, and well, I would say, what's the first thing that comes to mind is, I think, a strong work ethic. I think that's, you know, Daniel Egli: Something that I hear often about people when people talk about the Midwest and that's something that I would say applies to to the Swiss as well. Daniel Egli: Yeah, I would say, kind of a work ethic kind of down to earth mentality that that that's the first thing that comes to mind.  Joel Goldberg: What’s the, what's the kind of traffic and population and everyday living how, how those different Daniel Egli: Oh, well that's very different. I mean you know you. I'm sure you know, for those who have traveled to Europe, they'll know i mean you have much less space in Europe, it's more densely populated then here in Kansas City. Daniel Egli: You have a lot of space. I mean, obviously also around Kansas City. But there's, you know, it's the layout of the city is very different. It's much more oriented towards you know, using the car is Daniel Egli:no shortage of parking spots and it's it's a different lifestyle definitely in Switzerland. It's much more, you know, you walk in a city or use your bicycle or public transport and and here it's it's all designed around using your car. Joel Goldberg: It's a different world for sure over there and and really you know my opinion of amazing when I've not been to Switzerland. So I'd love to add that to the list. I guess the closest I have then will be will be France and Paris. And of course, you know, and Joel Goldberg: In that world over there. You hop on a train and you can, you know, get through to a number of countries in any given day, which is Joel Goldberg: I don't know. I don't know what what we have like that here. I guess it's kind of like like being in Boston, where you live and being able to hop on a train and get to New York, or DC or whatever it is, but Joel Goldberg: We don't really have anything quite like that. Okay. Final question the walk off question and it's a Russel Stover question for you with, with all the history of this great company and the brand name, where, where do you see this going Joel Goldberg: 10 years 20 years down the road so often I have guests on this this podcast that are Joel Goldberg: That are startups and they've got these dreams of hitting a big Russell Stover obviously has been big for a long time. But as you suggested Joel Goldberg: In this episode, that there's constant evolution. You can't stay still, the market changes, where do you see the world going in terms of chocolate in terms of Russell silver and then the next 10-20 years Daniel Egli: Look, I'm very optimistic about the future of Russell silver. I think that brand is as well. No, I think there's many opportunities for us to grow still Daniel Egli: So obviously we have a successful sugar free align that continues to grow. We have strengths and other parts of the business. So the Valentine arts or, you know, Easter rabbits and our gift box that you may enjoy in the in the Christmas period. Daniel Egli: So I think that for me, it's, it's about, you know, coming up with innovation that you know make the brand rejuvenate the brand, make it Daniel Egli: More relevant to also to to a younger consumer group and getting getting more people to buy Russell silver chocolate. I think we we have, you know, some interesting you know innovation in the pipeline and I'm looking forward to seeing those in the market place soon. Joel Goldberg: Well, it's always changing. I know that. And then some things of course will in some form or another. Always stay the same. I mean, there, there are Joel Goldberg: People have certain elements of sweets and chocolate that they will always love there there we can call whatever we want guilty pleasure, whatever, whatever it is that, that'll always be around, so it's it's interesting to see. Joel Goldberg: How things are going to change how they evolve and certainly you talked about it before, too, in terms of in terms of selling and online and all that the world will will continue to change so well. Joel Goldberg: That these are my two hopes and promises one hope we can get out for coffee again when when the time is come down or when they become safer and and what I, you know, I've got this like, you know, thought or hope that I can at least get your baseball interest from like a 2 to a 4 Daniel Egli: I'll work on my baseball and all its yeah but looking looking forward to the season, starting at some point.Hopefully I can get out there and watch the game, some time.  Joel Goldberg: Well, I'll help you with that. Not that you need the help, but you know, I'll try to do my part, I don't need to convert you or anything like that. I just want to make sure that I've at least tried to do my part in this one is not all about baseball and but you know it's a bit of my world, so to speak, so Joel Goldberg: Yeah yeah hey we both have we both have jobs that people can understand or at least brands that they understand. So, you know, certainly people always want to talk baseball with me and I'm Joel Goldberg: Sure, there's not a day that goes by that that people don't ask you something. Chocolate related, but hopefully this was a conversation more than that. And it was Joel Goldberg: It was great to be able to dive into the the culture and in your background. It's been a long time coming. So Daniel. I really appreciate you spending the time I'm glad you're here in Kansas City, and I Joel Goldberg: Can officially say that my first ever Swiss guest on rounding the bases. It took like 90 episodes was Daniel Egli, so it's groundbreaking for me. But hey, I appreciate you spending the time best of health to you and your family and I look forward to seeing you soon.  Daniel Egli: My pleasure. Thank you. Joel Goldberg: That's going to do it for another episode of rounding the bases, I'm Joel over. You can reach me at joelgoldbergmedia.com you can email at info@joelgoldbergmedia.com or find me on social media. I'm all over the place there. Joel Goldberg: Thanks for listening. I'd love it if you jump on to and give a five star rating on iTunes hope to catch you next time on rounding the bases.        

Show #815   Good morning, good afternoon and good evening wherever you are in the world, welcome to EV News Daily for Saturday 20th June 2020. It’s Martyn Lee here and I go through every EV story so you don't have to.   Thank you to MYEV.com for helping make this show, they’ve built the first marketplace specifically for Electric Vehicles. It’s a totally free marketplace that simplifies the buying and selling process, and help you learn about EVs along the way too.   FORD MUSTANG MACH-E WILL EASE RANGE ANXIETY "Ford hopes to give electric car owners extra peace of mind by releasing a clever feature named Intelligent Range that monitors electricity consumption in real time. The 2021 Mustang Mach-E will inaugurate it. Engineers started with the premise that range estimates are just that. How far you can drive on a full battery (or a full tank of gasoline) depends on a wide variety of factors, and the number you see in the instrument cluster is rarely 100% accurate." reports Autoblog: "Intelligent Range analyzes electricity consumption and factors in the driver's behaviour, the current and future weather conditions, plus data from other Mach-E drivers who choose to share it. It then predicts how much electricity the powertrain will use to complete a trip. Range goes down if the driver floors the accelerator pedal between every red light, for example, and Ford noted warmer and colder weather has an effect on how far an electric car can drive on one charge. If the number changes, users will see a notification in the instrument cluster. Ford told Autoblog this technology works regardless of whether a destination is entered into the navigation system. Intelligent Range learns the driver's habits on a daily basis, even if navigation isn't being used. It notably detects if the car is regularly driven briskly and if the A/C is always on full blast, among other parameters. It also doesn't require navigation information to factor the weather and crowd-sourced data into its real-world range estimate."   https://www.autoblog.com/2020/06/19/ford-mustang-mach-e-will-ease-anxiety-with-more-sophisticated-range-gauge/   VW TO DEVELOP THEIR OWN SOFTWARE PLATFORM "Volkswagen is reducing its reliance on software partnerships and shifting gears to developing its own in-vehicle software. That shift starts on July 1, when the automaker's newly formed internal organization Car.Software switches from the start-up phase to operational mode" according to Roadshow by CNET: " VW's current share of its cars' software is less than 10%, with the rest coming from development partnerships with large IT groups, tier 1 providers and other third-party software. Still in the early days, the first wave of VW ID electrics will still use VW's contemporary Modular Electric Propulsion Platform software with the Audi - and Porsche -developed Premium Platform Electric coming online around 2022. Then follows a transitional period leading up to the new VW.OS rollout around 2025. Friday's announcement comes amid reports of numerous software bugs that caused delays to the summer rollout of the automaker's upcoming electric ID 3 hatchback."   https://www.msn.com/en-za/autos/news/volkswagen-gets-more-active-in-software-development-with-new-carsoftware-division/ar-BB15ONCB   WATCH TRI-MOTOR AUDI E-TRON S BOMB IT DOWN THE NURBURGRING "The Audi e-tron has been out for some time now and it's definitely been more successful than its most immediate competitor, the Mercedes-Benz EQC." says Autoevolution: "s working on an S version that will pack a lot more muscle. How much? That'll be 496 hp and 973 Nm (717 lb-f) of torque, enough to give the Audi e-tron S a drop of 2.1 seconds in its 0-62 mph (0-100 km/h) acceleration time and an electronically-limited top speed of 130 mph (210 km/h). The not so big secret of the Audi e-tron S that enables the performance boost is the addition of a third motor. The unit that normally powers the rear axle on the 50 and 55 versions is moved up front on the S, and two smaller motors are used to power the rear wheels."   https://www.autoevolution.com/news/watch-tri-motor-audi-e-tron-s-bomb-it-down-the-nurburgring-overtake-a-bmw-145108.html#agal_3   ELON MUSK SAYS TESLA WILL DELAY ‘BATTERY DAY’ EVENT AND SHAREHOLDERS MEETING "Tesla CEO Elon Musk said Friday that the company’s “Battery Day” event and its shareholders meeting, which was slated for July 7th, will both be delayed until sometime after July 4th. The Battery Day event, where Tesla is expected to reveal details about its “million mile” battery, was originally planned for April but was bumped back to July due to the coronavirus pandemic." reports The Verge: "In response to a question on Twitter about whether its cyber truck would be at the shareholders meeting, Musk said Tesla “will have to postpone annual shareholder meeting, as still no large gatherings allowed by July 7th. Not sure of new date, but am guessing maybe a month or so later. He later added that Tesla would likely combine the shareholders meeting with the Battery Day event, and that it would probably be held in Fremont, California, where Tesla has factory.”   https://www.theverge.com/2020/6/20/21297685/elon-musk-tesla-battery-shareholders   TESLA SLASHES PRICES WITH NEW SOLAR PANEL Tesla said today in a Blog post: ""Today we are introducing the lowest-ever cost to go solar in the United States," the company wrote. "Our average system size is now one-third less expensive than the industry average and we have recently introduced a lowest-price guarantee. If you change your mind after purchasing or are unhappy with the system, we will uninstall it and issue a full refund within seven days from system turn on. With our new pricing, an average customer buying a large system in California will make their money back in only six years by reducing their electric bill, ultimately making an average of $88,000 over the system’s lifetime," the company said. "In New Mexico, that same system will make an average of $55,000 over its lifetime and in Vermont, $47,000. "Our internal software platform now automates solar panel placement for energy optimization on a roof, significantly reducing the time needed to design a new system," the company said. "We also continue to invest in core technologies that raise the efficiency of our solar systems, including new premium panels with higher power and efficiency, as well as integrated software and hardware that reduces the cost of solar interconnection and makes pairing solar with Powerwall easier than ever."   "According to a report by the Solar Energy Industries Association, the average cost for a residential solar panel system in the first quarter of 2020 was $2.83 per watt while a non-residential system was $1.36 per watt." writes Fox Business: "Before federal tax incentives, Tesla's "small" system now costs $10,000 for 4.1 kilowatts of power, or $2.44 per watt, while its "medium" system costs $16,000 for 8.2 kilowatts of power, or $1.95 per watt. The 'large' system costs $23,500 for 12.2 kilowatts, or $1.93 per watt, while the "extra large" system costs $30,000 for 16.3 kilowatts, or $1.84 per watt. After federal tax incentives, the total cost comes out to $7,400 for a small system, $11,840 for a medium system, $17,390 for a large system and 22,200 for an extra large system."   https://www.foxbusiness.com/technology/tesla-new-solar-panel-price   BOSCH SAYS ITS NEW APP WILL SOLVE EV CHARGING NIGHTMARE "If you own an EV and drive in Europe, you may have as many as 6 charging apps on your smartphones, as well as a half dozen charging system access cards. Bosch says it will take just a few clicks to register, recharge, and pay with its new app – and it includes cost transparency." reports Steve for CleanTechnica: "lmar Pritsch, president of the connected mobility solutions division of Bosch, tells Robotics and Automation News, “With our recharging services, we are developing a universal key to one of the biggest pan-European recharging networks. In doing so, we are making electromobility even more viable. Recharging has to be simple and smooth for everyone. Bosch’s smart recharging services are crucial for the widespread acceptance of electromobility." Bosch says its solution makes payment simpler. The app pays using the credit card details uploaded to it and provides users with a monthly statement of recharging costs. The Bosch app includes 150,000 chargers. The company says it expects that number to grow to more than 200,000 by the end of this year. 27,500 of those charge points are located in Germany.  The Bosch Charge My EV app allows drivers to locate available chargers anywhere in Europe."   https://cleantechnica.com/2020/06/16/bosch-says-its-new-app-will-solve-ev-charging-nightmare/   PORSCHE TAYCAN TO RECEIVE AERODYNAMIC UPGRADES FROM TECHART "German-based tuner TechArt has been fettling Porsches for decades, so it only seems right that it should turn its hand to the all-new, all-electric Taycan. Though powertrain upgrades are unlikely to surface any time soon, it already has plans to add a suite of new aerodynamics components, wheels and cabin upgrades. " says evo Magazine: "TechArt has plenty of aesthetics modifications up its sleeve, beginning with a set of lightweight 22-inch ‘Formula VI’ forged wheels that can be fitted to all current Taycan variants.  Though details are yet to be confirmed, the brand is keen to give customers free rein when it comes to customisation, so you’ll likely be able to reupholster the cabin in virtually any colour one could dream of, and new leather and fabric options are said to be in the works. Should the factory paint finish not be to your taste, the tuner will also offer fresh single and multi-colour paint finishes."   https://www.evo.co.uk/porsche/porsche-taycan/202767/porsche-taycan-to-receive-aerodynamic-upgrades-from-techart       QUESTION OF THE WEEK   Tell me about a conversation you had with someone where you introduced them to EVs   I want to say a heartfelt thank you to the 231 patrons of this podcast whose generosity means I get to keep making this show, which aims to entertain and inform thousands of listeners every day about a brighter future. By no means do you have to check out Patreon but if it’s something you’ve been thinking about, by all means look at patreon.com/evnewsdaily   [mention for Premium Partners]   You can listen to all 814 previous episodes of this this for free, where you get your podcasts from, plus the blog https://www.evnewsdaily.com/ – remember to subscribe, which means you don’t have to think about downloading the show each day, plus you get it first and free and automatically.   It would mean a lot if you could take 2mins to leave a quick review on whichever platform you download the podcast.   And if you have an Amazon Echo, download our Alexa Skill, search for EV News Daily and add it as a flash briefing.   Come and say hi on Facebook, LinkedIn or Twitter just search EV News Daily, have a wonderful day, I’ll catch you tomorrow and remember…there’s no such thing as a self-charging hybrid.     PHIL ROBERTS / ELECTRIC FUTURE (PREMIUM PARTNER) BRAD CROSBY (PREMIUM PARTNER) AVID TECHNOLOGY (PREMIUM PARTNER) BRIGHTSMITHGROUP.COM – FOR CLEANTECH TALENT (PREMIUM PARTNER) PORSCHE OF THE VILLAGE CINCINNATI (PREMIUM PARTNER) AUDI CINCINNATI EAST (PREMIUM PARTNER) VOLVO CARS CINCINNATI EAST (PREMIUM PARTNER) NEW! 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What do you get when you cross Catchphrase with that game where you match pairs of cards? Matchphrase? No, it's Concentration you idiot, although that was a good and clever guess. Perhaps the only gameshow where a creepy plastic robo-host offered cooked fish as a prize. That'll be niiiiiccce. TWITTER: @spreadthewhimsy FACEBOOK: facebook.com/whenwagonwheelswerebigger WEBSITE: whenwagonwheelswerebigger.com W4B theme composed by John Croudy W4B theme acoustic arrangement by Joe Beckhelling

Note: We originally intended this to be Episode 67 because we recorded well before we knew we would need to participate in the #podcastblackout. So yes, J says "Episode 67" at the start. This is Episode 68. Thank you for understanding. :)Episode 68! We're joined this week by our friend, Alicia, who's a creative, hilarious, fun person! This week K is drinking a Chablis, a French white wine. J is having Scott Kelly Pinot Noir from Oregon, aged in concrete and barrels. Alicia is having a Crisp Apple Angry Orchard Cider with her snoring pug. This week we cover a gamut of topics including: parenting in quarantine, distance-learning, Alicia's menagerie, raising chickens, sustainability, "That'll do, pug.", finding joy in mundane spaces, resiliency, the Gospel according to the Lindas, injury stories, and pastoral care challenges. Projects this week include: J made crockpot chili and a pie, K is still working on her lap blanket and is planning to bake a lemon meringue pie, and Alicia knitting a COVID blanket! K is happy she's got physical therapy scheduled, J's glad Harry Potter is on HBO Max, and Alicia is going into self-quarantine with her pug! Cheers! Follow Alicia's pug on Instagram: @emmie.the.churchpug!

We sink our MMA-ignorant teeth into Warrior for the 53rd edition of Scoring At The Movies. Even though we're out of our element talking about this sport, we found Gavin O'Connor's movie to be effective and even quite touching. It's also yet another Rocky story. Sly's brainchild comes up yet again on this channel. Anyway, Joel Edgerton and Tom Hardy---not to mention papa Nick Nolte---are all terrific. Too bad their father/sons relationships were given short shrift to make room for Tommy's unnecessary military backstory. Also, is there too much time spent on the sports in this sports movie? That'll come up. Regardless, this one impressed us a lot more than we expected. So have more courage than we ever could and get in the octagon. Wait! Stupid idea. Just listen to our podcast instead. Also, do what the brothers (eventually) do in this movie and take care of each other. It's a rough time right now and we can use all the bonding we can get. Tweets, huh? Yeah, tweets. We're @moviefiend51 and @scoringatmovies On June 25th, we will in fact talk about the business of baseball in Moneyball

To support this ministry financially, visit: https://www.oneplace.com/donate/1085/29 Anyone can experience financial hardship at any time. Its a great reminder that God is our ultimate Provider. Hes promised to meet our needs and Hes always faithful. Still He expects us to do our part.Preparing for lean times is not only common sense its backed up by Gods Word. So what can you do to get ready? Financial planner and teacher Rob West has a list of things to get you started. Proverbs 6: Go to the ant, consider her ways, and be wise. Without having any chief, officer, or ruler, she prepares her bread in summer and gathers her food in harvest. Genesis 41: and the seven years of famine began, just as Joseph had said. There was famine in all the other lands, but in the whole land of Egypt there was food. Day One: Take five minutes to sign up for a personal finance newsletter or blog. Day Two: Make a to do list of 10 financial tasks youve been putting off. Day Three: Do something. Pick one thing from your financial to do list and just do it. Thatll give you the satisfaction of crossing it off your list. Day Four: Set up a system to track your spending. Day Five: Try to identify one area a week where you can trim or cut something altogether. Day Six: Work up your Mayday Budget. Day Seven: Take some time to reflect and meditate on Gods Financial principles. Philippians 4:19. It reads,And my God will supply every need of yours according to his riches in glory in Christ Jesus. In todays show we also answer your questions: I have a farm and some rental property and about 40K in liquid reserves. Should we pay off one of these or buy a new property to bring in more money? Should I withdraw my savings account? Is it a smart to refinance now? How do you know when it is smart to cash out a QDRO account? Ask your questions at (800) 525-7000 or email them atquestions@moneywise.org. Visit our website atmoneywise.orgwhere you can connect with a MoneyWise Coach, purchase books, and even download free, helpful resources. Like and Follow us on Facebook atMoneyWise Mediafor videos and the very latest discussion!Remember that its your prayerful and financial support that keeps MoneyWise on the air. Help us continue this outreach by clicking the Donate tab at the top of the page.

Gil Hedley joins Tahnee on the podcast today. Gil is an anatomist and self proclaimed "Somanaut" - a person who is "dedicated to exploring the inner space of human form". Gil has encouraged thousands of fellow "somanauts" to appreciate, explore and embody the wonders of human form through his lecture presentations and hands-on human dissection courses in the laboratory. Tahnee and Gil dive deep today, exploring the intricate nature of the of these bodies we call human. The pair share their insights through the lens of anatomy, philosophy and spirituality. This one is a bit of a mind bender folks, but in the best possible way. Tune in to be taken beyond the linear understanding of the human body into the expansive realm of universal connection. Tahnee and Gil discuss: Integral vs regional anatomy, embodied understanding vs intellectual analysis. The heart as a factual vessel not a 'pump'. Taoist sexuality and sexual anatomy. Religion and spirituality. The intricacy and non symmetrical nature of the human form. The human body as a whole, each individual as a cellular representation of the whole - the universal body. Martial Arts and the textural foundations of the body. The fascial system.   Who is Gil Hedley? Gil Hedley is an anatomist and certified Rolfer who holds a PhD in theological ethics. Gil's combined interests and training have supported his personal and professional exploration of the human body, which has lead him to develop an integral approach to the study of human anatomy. Through hands-on human dissections courses in the laboratory and lecture presentations, Gil has encouraged thousands of fellow "somanauts" to appreciate, explore and embody the wonders of human form. Gil has authored a number of books, as well as produced The Integral Anatomy Series, a set of four feature-length videos documenting his whole body, layer-by-layer approach through on-camera dissection.   Resources: Gil's Website Gil's Facebook Gil's Youtube   Gil's Free Online Courses   Q: How Can I Support The SuperFeast Podcast?   A: Tell all your friends and family and share online! We’d also love it if you could subscribe and review this podcast on iTunes. Or  check us out on Stitcher :)! Plus  we're on Spotify!   Check Out The Transcript Here:   Tahnee:   (00:08) Hi everybody. Welcome to the SuperFeast Podcast. Today I'm really excited to introduce Gil Hedley, who's joining us from Colorado. Hi Gil.   Gil Hedley:   (00:15) Hi, Tahnee.   Tahnee:  (00:16) Nice to have you here with us.   Gil Hedley:   (00:18) And everybody listening.   Tahnee:  (00:19) Yeah, the whole listening world. Gil is the founder of Integral Anatomy and he's a really amazing anatomist and somanaut which is a great word that I'd love for you to explain for us later if that's okay. But also you've studied theology and you have a PhD in theology. Is that correct?   Gil Hedley:   (00:37) Theological ethics, actually, yeah.   Tahnee:  (00:38) Okay. And you've done some rolfing things. You've kind of got this interesting mix of I guess the spiritual, and the tangible physical, and then obviously, like through the hands-on human dissection that you do. I feel like that's such an interesting combination of worlds to weave. But what I've seen you express, I suppose is this really beautiful and profound philosophy that I guess has arisen through your physical dissections and actual extractions of human form. But how does one go from actually doing theology, which I understand is like the study of religions and theological ethics, which is I suppose, I saw your piece on marriage. Is this around the role religion plays and how we create ethical constructs in our society. Is that right?   Gil Hedley:  (01:28) That's exactly right. Yeah, exactly. Looking to see the moral systems that are rooted in religions. So that's my master's degree. It was in the study of religion. My BA was also in the study of religion, and my PhD. All ethics throughout actually, I was studying ethics throughout. But basically, yeah, looking at ethics is a meta study where you look at people's ways of being in a world and trying to see how they reason about their moral-   Tahnee:  (02:05) Conduct sort of thing.   Gil Hedley:  (02:05) Conducts, and preferences, and choices, right? So.. And then theological ethics is where you look specifically to the moral systems of religious systems and ask like, "How do they come to believe that? What's their rationale for holding that position," or what have you. So actually, I brought my spirituality to the University of Chicago, certainly didn't get it from it. In fact, when I showed up, they're like, "What are you talking about God? we don't know God," because it's a very academic and abstract mental place.   Gil Hedley:  (02:37) That sort of intentionally drives you out of your body. My attempt to claim a body there was, was amusing I think, to my professors. I started doing Tai Chi and then I learned massage and rolfing while I was in my PhD program, in my own effort to just ground myself because I felt that although grounding was not a appreciated pursuit in my field, actually quite the opposite. I felt that it was ridiculous to try and come to moral positions or study ethics about the body, for instance, and make rules and such about the body or even evaluate rules about the body without knowing what a body is, or even living in one because it wasn't really valued to actually live in your body at the University of Chicago. I went into Tai Chi to try and just ground myself and get a little physical and explore my movement and such. I went to massage training and my rolfing training.   Gil Hedley:  (03:46) I got a little more body connection. I kind of realised that I couldn't speak to the body without having a more intimate understanding of the body. Before you knew it, I wasn't so much into the rolfing thing as I was into the anatomy that was helping me be a good rolfer. I sort of switched my career choice out of the rolfing upon the shoulders of which I continue to stand and into the the body exploration in the laboratory, where I found myself swimming in a universe that both terrified me and compelled me completely.   Gil Hedley:  (04:28) I found that when folks found out what I was doing, friends and other people, I was in a healing school as well after my rolfing training, did five years in an energetic healing school, kind of psychodynamics and energy healing and that kind of thing. My friends were like, "Teach us anatomy." I was like okay. I kind of told them what was going on in the lab. When I was in the lab, I kind of brought the energy of the healing school to that. That's much more how spirituality made its way into my anatomy laboratory as opposed to anything I ever got at the University of Chicago studying theological ethics, where I basically just fought the popes in Latin. It wasn't really particularly spiritual.   Tahnee:  (05:15) Well, and religion has such a history of denying the body because I mean ...   Gil Hedley:  (05:20) Exactly.   Tahnee:  (05:21) Do you have anything to say to that? Because I mean, I've got lots of thoughts on that.   Gil Hedley:  (05:25) Absolutely I mean the ease with which I engaged in the intellectual pursuits at the university and in graduate school was grounded, it was founded I should say, in my own disconnection to my body that was definitely fostered by my religious upbringing as a Roman Catholic. With all due respect to Roman Catholics, some of my best friends are Roman Catholics, my mum for instance, the modelling of the body in the church that I was raised in as liberal and 1960's kumbaya religion that I was raised with, still had a beloved saviour crucified, right, as the model of the body, and a virgin mother of him. So when you put those two together, you start scratching your head. You don't even have to scratch your head.   Gil Hedley:  (06:24) It's so deep. It goes in so deep to your psyche and to your way of moving, literally it affects how you move when your heroes, when your spiritual heroes, are naked but murdered and his mother weeping at the foot of the cross, actually never had sex, according to the story. So this is strange, and it's a strange way to model by the people you value most are void and have broken their bodies and offer their bodies as a sacrifice etc. When you take that seriously and I did, I took it so seriously, I got a PhD teaching Catholic ethics.   Gil Hedley:  (07:06) You get massively conflicted around your body and around your body's urges, around sexuality, around physicality, and many people just never worked through that. I've actually used the study of anatomy and the exploration of movement through something like Tai Chi for years. Then just like life and sex and family to become embodied. So that when I speak an anatomy word, it's not just an intellectual thing for me. I have a relationship with that tissue, an intimate relationship with a tissue. I know what it feels like, I know where it is. I can go there. I can call out its name and it calls back to me with sensation. So that's the embodiment that I've pursued and it's their integral anatomy.   Tahnee:  (08:02) So do you feel like there's this deeper sense of like introception and self-awareness, I suppose through the work that you've done, like it hasn't? Because I think a lot of people-   Gil Hedley:  (08:13) Yeah, I can go in there.   Tahnee:  (08:15) Let's go. Yeah. Because I mean, I see a lot of people. I've done a little bit of work in wet labs and stuff. It's almost like people become disconnected from the body when they do that work. It becomes this body I guess.   Gil Hedley:  (08:29) There's a risk of that when the approaches is regional and not integral. That's why I've developed integral anatomy because a regional anatomy, when you're parsing the body out literally into parts, bits, pieces, naming them, that's an intellectual process. It's a mental construct, and it doesn't have a whole lot to do with what's in front of you. But if you give a little time for the body to talk to you and tell it a bit about itself, and this was kind of my point as an ethicist was I keep learning about people and systems that are ordering the body around. They haven't even stopped to listen to what it has to say, or how it's organised, and what it might speak to the moral life because it's the moral life is lived, is a bodily lived experience.So what does the body speak to that? Because if the body is a gift and not a curse, then it can possibly inform the moral life rather than be its subjugated-   Tahnee:  (09:25) Vehicle of fear almost. Yeah.   Gil Hedley:  (09:28) And bedraggled partner or servant or mule as it were. Yeah, so if you're just doing regional anatomy, you really do run the risk of of getting disconnected. When you come into a lab and the body's head, and hands, and feet are wrapped, and they're faced down, and you never connect with them as even though the housing of a person but it's just like you're on day one of medical school. You're told to go in and find the integration of the trapezius muscle, meaning you have to hack a panel out of the skin, superficial fascia, deep fascia, flip the muscle over, find the nerve, then you get your A. Now, what happened to you in the process, right?   Gil Hedley:  (10:16) So chances are, you're disconnected or as I bring people into a room, we stand around the table holding hands in a circle. We give thanks and we bring ourselves into a state of appreciation. We acknowledge that this form is a gift, and this is came from a person who had an intention or the family who has an intention. We look them in the eye, and we sit them up, and we stand them up, even and we meet them in a vertical so that we can we can acknowledge, "Oh, this isn't just some dead body. This was someone's body." It's not a person on the table by any means. I'm not a surgeon. I don't work on living persons.   Gil Hedley:  (10:58) But I do work on the artefacts, and the footprints, and the old shoes of persons. I learned a lot about them as a result of that. I learned more about myself, my own fears, my own disconnections. I invite the people in the room to constantly, step up to that mirror and look in it. And see, do you hate what you see in the mirror? Do you love what you see in the mirror? Do you hate some of it and love some of it? Some of it you can't even see because it's literally outside of your ability to see. So I try and help people to see more. Then to just observe what their relationship is to what they see. Because if it's unappreciative, I'm going to work my hardest to to point out aspects of appreciation that can bring that person into a positive relationship with the gift that's in front of them and hopefully the gift that they're walking around with.   Tahnee:  (11:54) I had a close friend about maybe 2013, do your training in San Francisco. She sent me these emails while she was there, and it was like witnessing a breakdown, and then a breakthrough, and then this kind of rebuilding of her identity. I mean, I just looked at them again, when I knew I was going to talk to you. I remember them, they was so visceral for me when I wasn't there. I can feel how visceral it was for her and this process of spending six days, going back to her hotel alone and just processing. I think about how we're so removed from natural processes, death, birth, like all of these things.   Tahnee:  (12:36) I remember when I had my daughter, I had an experience meditating where I could almost feel this energy stream between her and I. Even though I was across the room from her. I remember reading in one of your posts about like fat being the fascia, sorry being the receiver like a transmitter of energy. I could feel how like my body had softened so that I could have this deep connection with her. I think those little little insights, they just they change your experience so much. How could I hate my chubbiness? If I was deeply connected to my little baby.   Tahnee:  (13:14) I mean, for me, that was just such a beautiful, getting even emotional talking about it. It was such a beautiful change because I've spent my whole life with eating disorders and various forms of that even if they weren't avert. That's what I saw with Kate, her respect for her body and for her students and how she was able to just see differently, I can just imagine you must have these huge transformational experiences going on every day in your work, right?   Gil Hedley:  (13:44) At least in my courses, I definitely set them up as opportunities for transformation and healing, I like to say that my classes are transformational, not traumatic. Because I mean, I was brought into gross anatomy laboratory when I was 17 years old in high school and in an advanced biology class. The guy who took us around the lab, at the Harlem School of Pediatry was basically like John Belushi, it was a joke. He was going to make us laugh and we did laugh, but it was simultaneously horrifying.   Gil Hedley:  (14:22) There were bags of feet on shelves around the room. There were hammy pelvis and legs lying on the table. He's yanking on tendons, showing, making toes move like a chicken. I didn't eat chicken for two years after that visit to the lab. It made a tremendous impression on me. When I came to study in a lab myself, I was like, the fact of the matter is that when you enter the laboratory, you actually go into altered states of consciousness, just by dint of the circumstances.   Gil Hedley:  (14:48) So you don't need to take anything magic to have your consciousness altered when you go into the lab. If you're brought in mindfully, with consciousness and awareness. I felt and do feel a keen responsibility when I have a room full of people in an altered state of consciousness instead of to jerk them around or mess with them, to serve them. From my Catholic upbringing, I have a service mentality. That's my ethics. That's my religion, my religion is service, right? That's the core of my own ethical structure. I do take the opportunity to serve the people in their altered states of consciousness in the laboratory for their sake, as opposed to what often happens in workshops where people are brought into altered states of consciousness and then the leader manipulates them for their own sake to take the next workshop. I hate that. I can't stand that.   Tahnee:  (15:55) Welcome to the yoga industry, yeah.   Gil Hedley:  (15:58) Yeah. It's so mean to start enrolling people when they're in the middle of their ecstatic experience. I would much rather have you calm down and realise here, and two years later think would you ever want to do that again? Most people are like, "No, that was plenty. I got that down." Now, there are the occasional people who come back and come back and back and back. Some people come every year. But they've made it their own practise. That's their own practise. I've made it my own practise as well.   Tahnee:  (16:27) Well, I mean, it seems like an endless task almost to try and map the body. I mean, it's so complicated.   Gil Hedley:  (16:38) It is. Things don't hold my attention for very long unless they're very interesting. So I found like with ethics and the moral life while I was studying that still am, I haven't stopped, observing, making observations and tinkering with my own set of ideas around how it is to be in the world and what I am in the world. What is going on here? These questions still drive me, who I am and what is my body. But when I think about how long I've been doing this for at this point, if you'd asked me, I would be like, "You're crazy." But it turns out that it really is the universe that we're exploring here. Whether you do it in macrocosm or microcosm.   Gil Hedley:  (17:23) I mean, I am like a kid in a candy shop in the lab every day because I'm seeing stuff, making observations, seeing details that have escaped me for all these years or details that I saw and then forgot. To be able to do that is quite a privilege, but also just speaks to the complexity of the subject. Even at the gross anatomical level, because people I mean, many people just dismiss gross anatomy like, "Oh, we already know all that stuff. That was figured out 400 years ago, right?" There it is. It's in the book. It's done there's nothing more to say. If you were getting a PhD in anatomy right now, you'd be hard pressed to find a professor who would support PhD level work and gross anatomy. No, you're going to be doing molecular biology. You're going to be working at nanometer level sizes of anatomy, cellular anatomy, gross anatomy is passe.   Gil Hedley:  (18:28) They'd rather have it out of the building actually because it smells and it's expensive and scary. But I have found actually that working at the gross level, I'm exploring the same questions that people are exploring at the micro level about movement and interfaces and relationships and continuities. But I find that the gross anatomical level provides a mirror for transformation that may be the microscopic level might not. You might not see yourself there quite as easily as you do when you're looking at a bedraggled old man on the table or a sweet old grandma.   Tahnee:  (19:06) Yeah, you see humanity reflected back at you, don't you?   Gil Hedley:  (19:09) Yeah.   Tahnee:  (19:09) I mean, I've read just recently actually read that you were talking about, you've even got theories that challenge, I guess, our gross anatomy conceptions that say like the heart is a pump, like you see it as more of a fluid. Is it that pressure dynamics, is that kind of what you're ...?   Gil Hedley:  (19:30) The heart is definitely not a pump.   Tahnee:  (19:30) Yeah. So speak to that.   Gil Hedley:  (19:32) By design, but the heart can be reduced to a pump, under the untoward circumstances of a stressful life. You can force your heart to become nothing but a pump to maintain homeostasis, but by design the heart is more of a, I see it as the place where the blood spins itself, where it refreshes its movement.   Tahnee:  (19:55) I guess centrifugal force kind of a thing is that what you ...   Gil Hedley:  (19:59) I think it's more about ... Well, there's that for sure, because I would say one of the primary functions of the heart is to facilitate the restoration of the vortex, the lamination of the blood and its flow as opposed to forcing it through smaller and smaller tubes that terminate 30,000 miles away and then make a 30,000-mile road trip back. That ain't happening with that little bit of flesh inside your chest. If you saw the kind of a pump that would be required to force a fluid through pipes with increasingly smaller diameters, the mathematics of it results in the need for an absolutely large machine, which is not located inside your chest.   Gil Hedley:  (20:43) If you've ever seen a heart lung machine, just look it up on Google, heart lung machine. It's like a big ass machine that is forcing blood. It's really the the amazing fluid dynamics and fractal form of the vascular network that's actually a reflection of the movement of fluids rather than its cause that results in the blood being drawn to the periphery and then being drawn back to the centre.   Tahnee:  (21:19) Like a tide, kind of?   Gil Hedley:  (21:21) Yeah, maybe like a tide. But there's a wonderful, wonderful Austrian naturalist whose name was Viktor Schauberger.   Tahnee:  (21:31) Yeah, I was about to say. Because he was all about the water needing to spin in vortex. We have an egg at home that our water-   Gil Hedley:  (21:37) Do you really? That's so cool.   Tahnee:  (21:38) Yeah.   Gil Hedley:  (21:39) How wonderful.   Tahnee:  (21:39) That's the thing. Because like nature is if you look at a coastline, it's all fractals, if you look at anything in nature, it's water streams like and the way water-   Gil Hedley:  (21:48) Yeah, so is the heart rhythm, the heart rhythm is fractal, we are fractal. We are mirrored best with fractal forms. We don't need a pump to make the water go around the planet or to make a vortex form in a stream nor do we need to control the streams banks. Similarly, if left to its own devices and if the heart is free, the blood will flow beautifully for your whole life. But if you resist that flow, if you resist the movement of life within you, literally through hypertension, emotional states and dietary duress is supplying your form, you can actually, I use the phrase canalyzing.   Gil Hedley:  (22:38) Which I mean to make a canal out of literally. So, if you put a canal and put walls, canal walls on a stream, you stress it basically. You dispermit its normal flow of movement, and yet it's still on a spinning planet. So what happens is there's friction, right? Instead of there being sort of a frictionless passage of the fluid, you have friction against the walls of the canal, which will be broken down by the fluid friction and also by the altered chemistry of the water, which when not moving in the same way has an altered chemistry. It's no different in our bodies, when we enter into emotional states that stiffen our otherwise flexible river beds, then we can analyze the path of the blood, generate friction of the blood against the vessel walls, which abraids, destroys them along with the altered chemistry, which chemically abraids them.   Gil Hedley:  (23:36) You have that combination of things, and then homeostasis kicks in and says, "Well, you promised to stay on this planet as long as I could keep you here, and so I'm going to proliferate cholesterol from your liver, the purpose of which is to be an antioxidant, and I'm going to take the oxidised cholesterol. I'll pack into the fissures along the vessel walls and I'm going to ... Oh well that's not enough. We're going to going to a hole in this thing eventually. So you really do want me to build a canal and your body will actually lay down bone basically," it'll calcify a literal canal, a little calcified canal inside the blood vessel. Then your blood will try and flow through that but you've created is no longer being sucked to the end and sucked back.   Gil Hedley:  (24:24) You're actually demanding like I said, at the beginning of the story, that your heart be a pump then, and then you'll get megalocardia, right, the heart will increase it and literally, increase in size as it worked for the first time in your life to move the blood. It never had to work before, it just happened. The ocean doesn't work to draw the rivers into it. The clouds don't work to form, and rain over the mountain tops, and soak into the soil and turn into spring water and bubble back up. There's no work involved. It's all just happening on a spinning planet, in a spinning galaxy. We are that.   Tahnee:  (25:03) Spinning bodies.   Gil Hedley:  (25:04) Yeah, we our bodies, are participating in that potential fluid movement on the planet. Unless we decide to hell no. I'm going to do it this way. I'm going to do it the hard way I'm going to resist the moment of life within me, and show it better. We never do we always show it worse.   Tahnee:  (25:28) I mean, it sounds like you're talking a lot to the Taoist world view. Would you say that's fair? Because it seems to be, like if we resist the flow of life a lot of this stuff, I guess is reminding me of like the Tao Te Ching and those kinds of concepts.   Gil Hedley:  (25:42) Yeah, there's a lot of good stuff in there, huh? Definitely. I would say when the Tao is lost, morality arises. Yeah, that's a little Tao Te Ching for you. I read it many times as a boy.   Tahnee:  (25:54) Yeah.   Gil Hedley:  (25:55) Man. I love the Tao Te Ching. I was like, "Wow, what's this all about?"   Tahnee:  (26:00) This idea I mean, because I have a little bit of a background in Chinese medicine too. I'm thinking like one thing, Paul Grilley who's a yin yoga teacher, I think you know him.   Gil Hedley:  (26:09) I know, Paul, he's pretty good.   Tahnee:  (26:11) Yeah, yeah. Well, he was talking recently about how one of his theories is that the fluid around the organs changes, and that gives rise to deficiency or access patterns and stuff. That makes sense when you're talking about the chemistry of the fluid. If it's altered by stagnation or by excess flow or whatever, getting flushed out too quickly, then we're going to end up with physiological effects from what had happened.   Gil Hedley:  (26:37) Absolutely.   Tahnee:  (26:39) Yeah, and then those manifest health symptoms and things, is that phenomenon visible in the fashion, not just in organs, obviously be it all through the body, right, that we'll be seeing this kind of stiffening?   Gil Hedley:  (26:51) Absolutely, I see. Well, what I call perry fascia I see as a fluid reservoir in our body. I like Peter Fritos word of a conduit. It's both a pathway as well as a reservoir. It's chemistry is dependent upon levels of hydration, which can be altered, but not only hydration, but the entire chemistry is altered by dehydration, right? You start to get you know, hydrogen bonding and cross fibre linking in the tissues that are designed to facilitate differential movement. When that happens, then at some level, the function is mitigated.   Gil Hedley:  (27:53) I don't know what percentage is required. I'm not saying dehydrated like cardboard, I'm saying like 2% of lack of fluidity and what does that do to the cells or the slipperiness of the tissue. When there's this level of drag generated mechanically throughout your body, how does that alter physiology? How does it alter movement? How does it alter mood or how does mood alter? It goes both ways, right?   Tahnee:  (28:24) Yeah, yeah. I mean, it's so easy for us to be either or with these things. When you start to really look into them, it's always both, there's a great F. Scott Fitzgerald, quote, it's like, the sign of advanced intelligence is the ability to hold two opposing ideas at the same time. It's one that we constantly have to remember where we because ... You try and conceptualise these things, and it's so easy to want to know the truth which and then realistically it's always both. We're physical beings, we're emotional beings, we're spiritual beings. We're all of these things at once. I mean that idea that you say of I guess just reclaiming the body as a positive kind of a thing because I think so much of our culture like movement practises are ... I see some of the stuff people are doing, especially on social media and it just seems like it's abuse. It's like we're flogging our bodies.   Gil Hedley:  (29:22) Oh yeah, for sure.   Tahnee:  (29:24) I mean, you have some movement practise of your own. Right? Or you speak to movement quite a bit like, is there a ...   Gil Hedley:  (29:34) I walk.   Tahnee:  (29:34) Well, I mean-   Gil Hedley:  (29:34) I usually walk when I'm on the telephone. At the moment, I'm plugged in, I hover over cadavers in uncomfortable positions for hours a day, tormenting myself. Then I come home and collapse on a soft gushy sofa and do four hours of admin on my computer. While we make popcorn and eventually relax by watching something on Netflix. I'm pretty much in the loop of-   Tahnee:  (29:57) Of life.   Gil Hedley:  (29:59) Earlier. By the way, I think F. Scott Fitzgerald must have been a Libra.   Tahnee:  (30:03) I'm a Libra, so maybe that's it.   Gil Hedley:  (30:06) You're a Libra? I'm also a Libra, like a triple Libra.   Tahnee:  (30:10) Oh, no, are you?   Gil Hedley:  (30:12) Yeah. I'm as Libra as they get. I'm a Venusian, they're like man are from Mars and women are from Venus. Gil is also from Venus.   Tahnee:  (30:21) This explains a lot though because you also have the poetry and the beautiful philosophical musings, which I think is a very Libran trait to always look at the beauty in everything.   Gil Hedley:  (30:30) That is very true.   Tahnee:  (30:34) There was something you actually said. No, I think he taught a workshop on it overseas. I think a friend of mine from England went, I think that's why I knew about it. It was Sex and the Sacred Heart. Is that something you did?   Gil Hedley:  (30:48) That was recently, yeah.   Tahnee:  (30:50) I was not there, but yeah. I think a friend of mine from England who I'd done one of Paul's training's with was in attendance.   Gil Hedley:  (30:55) Yeah. Jo Phee.   Tahnee:  (30:57) I love them.   Gil Hedley:  (30:58) I held a yin teacher training in Berlin, actually.   Tahnee:  (31:02) Yeah. She had a whole bunch of you though that were pretty next level guests.   Gil Hedley:  (31:05) Yeah. Robert Schleipe was there. Jupp Vaanderwall, John Sharkey, and there was a gentleman, an acupuncturist fellow who I didn't have the pleasure of meeting. He was gone by the time I arrived. But anyway, yeah, When Jo says come, you got to go.   Tahnee:  (31:23) For someone so teeny, she's definitely got a authority.   Gil Hedley:  (31:27) Yeah, well, Jo's been coming to my class for years. I figured I owe her.   Tahnee:  (31:31) Yeah. Look, I mean, she's a wealth of information and hardworking.   Gil Hedley:  (31:36) She's wonderful, wonderful teacher. Yes, so I did teach a workshop called Sex and Sacred Heart. It was a kind of an experiment. I was thinking I might tour that talk. I was trying to see could I actually teach a class without my computer and without an image from the lab, and just tell stories that use toys such so I did. I did twisty tie balloons.   Tahnee:  (31:59) Okay. I thought you might made ...   Gil Hedley:  (32:01) I made a giant clitoris and a giant penis, and we had a great time.   Tahnee:  (32:06) Well, because one of the things my Taoist teacher talks about is how the Heart is expressed in the head of the penis and the clitoris. That's one of his big things. He's like-   Gil Hedley:  (32:16) I believe him.   Tahnee:  (32:18) Yeah. All of his work is around sex is a healing practise instead of as something to be-   Gil Hedley:  (32:23) Wonderful.   Tahnee:  (32:24) Yeah, was that the name of what you were talking about? Basically?   Gil Hedley:  (32:27) Well, for me, I wanted to basically offer, have a frank discussion about sexuality that wasn't so reductionistic as well. It's like well, first let me share with you some of the basic anatomy of our sexuality that may be overlooked or misunderstood because people haven't gotten that Sex 101. I found the more I talk about it, the more I realised that folks really don't know anything at all about their sexual anatomy for starters. And that's understandable, it's just not around. Where it is being taught, it's very difficult to comprehend the dimensions, the dimensionality and relationships, the anatomical structures are poured over it for years.   Gil Hedley:  (33:15) I think I can offer, I can make those connections with people but then also to be like, "It's not about these body parts. It's nice to know that and to be able to meet and connect with the actual qualities of our parts intimate," as I call them, but also that ultimately good sex is a function of the Heart. Not everybody wants good sex, but if you look at some people just want trashy sex, whatever you want to say. That's fine too. I'm not the judge. But in our culture, at least in the American culture which is all I can really speak to, the disconnection that we spoke of earlier with regard to our religiosity actually produces its opposite in the culture with as much or greater strength.   Gil Hedley:  (34:11) So to the extent that you deny, suppress, repress, revile, hate, and control sexuality, you create the largest porn industry in the world because literally, the porn industry is a function of our religion in the same way that the devil it's himself is a creation. If you have a pure God, that's only love and you and you subtract anything else from that God, you build a devil, right? If you go to the Indian religions, Kali Maas, terrifying, and sexy, and murderous and terrifying. You know what I'm saying? So it's all wrapped up into one thing. It's a little more psychologically rich. Similarly, if you banish an aspect of the human body to a lesser status. You cut off your very experience of the human body at the waist, you will not know the fullness of your Heart.   Tahnee:  (35:21) Even at the shoulders, like so many people who are living from above the neck, right?   Gil Hedley:  (35:27) Absolutely. Not even in the head. They're actually above the head. It's too terrifying to even come into the body. If you just ask people to a number, "Where do you feel yourself to be?" There will be people who will put their hand over their head. They don't feel themselves to be inside their bodies. If you've actually judged the body to be dangerous or if the body is perceived to pose a moral risk to the soul or salvation or however you want to construct it, then you're going to have a very busy porn industry.   Gil Hedley:  (36:15) In the same neighbourhood, because it'll be right next to the church. So there'll be the church, and then there'll be the dirty movies shop, right? Because you can't part yourself from that. You can't divide your heart like that. So for me, the is heart sacred and it infiltrates every cell, makes up to every cell of my body, the capillary network infiltrates my below the waist as well as above, it's the same Heart. I can't believe that a kind creator God would would give me a zone one of my body that was forbidden somehow or that was somehow less than any other aspect of my body. My mouth can't say to my dick, "I don't need you," to crudely paraphrase, the Apostle Paul.   Tahnee:  (37:14) That might be the headline. Kidding.   Gil Hedley:  (37:19) Yeah. You might have an establishment coming. Just saying.   Tahnee:  (37:22) Same intention.   Gil Hedley:  (37:24) Yeah, it's like the eye can't say to the hand, "I don't need you." There's nothing, there's no part of a body that is a gift that is unwelcomed or dirty or doesn't belong. And once you actually embrace the whole of the body as a gift, then you could say, "Well, then I gotta unwrap it all. I have to be open to the potential, the entire potential of this form and not just part of it." If I fall down on my knees, and literally straightened my body up and cut my pelvis, the energy off of my pelvis, above the pelvis, it's a strange thing. It's a very strange thing.   Gil Hedley:  (38:10) I don't feel like that justly demonstrates gratitude to the gift of the whole body. I feel that kind of, then so we actually have a culture that's split on those lines, right? And you end up, because of that split, the spirituality, actually a kind of spirituality, that splits the body in two and considers part of it great, that part of it good. That kind of spirituality literally drives the negative and empty expression of sexuality in the culture, right, because then everyone who actually goes for it is like, "Well, this, this can't be that." They're just the other side of the coin. By bringing the heart or the idea of a sacred heart into the story of sexuality is to say that we can't split our hearts in two and expect ourselves to feel whole. The heart is no less present in your [inaudible] than it is anywhere else.   Tahnee:  (39:16) And I mean when you're... Because that's something I think I've heard you say that even the separateness of our bodies is something you've brought into question recently. Is that something? Have I understood that correctly? Because I've been thinking about I guess, again, looking from the Taoist perspective, and even some of the tantric practises , that sacred union has been transformational for people. I've certainly had that experience in my life where I've had the good and the bad sex, where part has been really healing and empowering. That's, I guess, my current relationship,. It is like a transcendental experience where you actually do sort of dissolve almost, then there's that experience of like meditation or altered states of consciousness.   Tahnee:  (40:15) I mean, that's what my experience has been when I've managed to kind of unify through sex. I think that's there's a reason that subjugated because that's very empowering. You don't want to be a part of a ... You become kind of less able to be controlled, I think, when that's a part of your experience, because if you think about advertising, and politics, and all of these things, they really come out of this, these ideas. I know we're getting into deep territory, but that's been my experience. I think about if I'm repressed, and suppressed, and afraid, and don't trust myself, and don't trust my power and my body, then I'm much more easy to control. It's an act of sovereignty and liberation in a way.   Gil Hedley:  (40:58) That's beautifully put, I love it.   Tahnee:  (41:01) Yeah, well, I'm getting there. So could you flush out that idea for me about because we're all so different, and that's something you mentioned before we got on, you've been in the lab a lot lately. You've been taking apart two bodies simultaneously, and recording it so people can actually see even side to side, we're different. This is something I literally have to hit people over the head with. You won't be able to assume the same shape on one side that you do in another side in a yoga class.   Tahnee:  (41:29) It might be minutely different, it might be vastly different. I think people think we kind of have like those butterfly prints you do it at school when you're a kid. We're like clone from side to side. But that's not how we grow to my understanding. We kind of spiral out. That fractal nature of us. We aren't perfectly symmetrical, and none of us are perfectly-   Gil Hedley:  (41:52) Very true.   Tahnee:  (41:52) Yeah, well, none of us a perfectly symmetrical, but then you're also saying that we're very similar. So can you explain what's going on for you there? What's that line of thinking?   Gil Hedley:  (42:02) Well, we got a head. I have a head, we both have a couple arms, most of us do, a couple of legs, some hairy bits here and there. That's kind of like the basic map, right? Then literally to a number, every one of us kind of is a spin on that basic format that we call the human body.   Gil Hedley:  (42:31) But when I think about the human body, I mean, I've thought about the human body for years and years and years now. I keep kind of shifting my idea of the human body. Now when I say the human body, I tend to include yours with mine. I tend to include all the bodies as the human body. There's this body of humans on the planet. There are many, many cells to it, right? This human body, We're actually, all those human body cells that we are are governed by the same sun, the same moon, the same stars, the same spinning planet. Those are the master glands and the master physiology of the whole human species. And believe me, when the sun throws some crazy ass cosmic rays at this planet, we behave differently. When the when the moon is full, we behave differently.   Tahnee:  (43:33) Luna speaks.   Gil Hedley:  (43:35) Yeah, exactly. Our skins are producing in response to the sun, everything, whether we're hungry or tired is based on the sun. You can't get off the planet. Just try, jump. See how far you get. You snap back down like a magnet. There's substance to the space between us. Just because it's not our, our sensory habit of perceiving the content or substance of the spaces that we imagine are between us in the same way that when I went to the lab at first, I didn't really expect the muscles to be connected to each other. I mean, I knew they were connected to the bones or something, but I thought there was kind of, I don't know, maybe some juice in between them.   Gil Hedley:  (44:42) I didn't expect it to be a facial connection. I didn't expect it to be a substantial connection. I was basically surprised and in denial of the connection I was witnessing. Isn't that true about all of us? Aren't we surprised and in denial of connections between us? Right? Such that we keep forcing our minds to imagine ourselves separate in spite of the intimacy of our mutual connection across the planet with one another, regardless of telecommunications or whatever. There's a substance that's a continuity that is the relationship of the whole human body on the planet.   Gil Hedley:  (45:32) I don't really need to even stop it there. Why stop at the human body? Why not just talk about the planetary body or the body of consciousness? Right? Then you can just include everything. Why not? Because I don't know, I don't really. I'm not really a big, big bang kind of guy. You know what I'm saying? I find that to be a very amusing story. Right. Whether it be true or not, I don't even care. But I just see it as, as a nice metaphor for connection really. Right? So if you do conceive of a beginning or of a beginning that was the end of something else or a new beginning that is a very concentrated mass of atoms without so much space in between them that that spread out, formed our universe and our bodies and our stars at the star dust.   Gil Hedley:  (46:34) If there's any truth to physics, the proximity of those generated a mutuality such that at a distance, they remain connected in their behaviours and in their substance, even electromagnetically or however else that happens. I don't really know. But just as a story, I'm willing to ramp that up at the macro level. I can easily extend the notion to our mutual connectedness. I also know that I can feel people at a distance. I don't automatically deny that experience. Any human can, with a little practise view remotely and extend their consciousness. So the the field of consciousness that we share may be our body, may be my body. I don't say that egotistically, but as just a simple fact of reality.   Tahnee:  (47:37) That's very yogic. Well, that's sort of the map I've learned of what Paul teaches is actually, where ideas and energy and form, but we're all the same thing all the time. It's just we choose to perceive ourselves this way right now.   Gil Hedley:  (47:59) It's not the worst choice in the world, it can be interesting.   Tahnee:  (48:06) If you do believe we chose it, then we chose it. There has to be a reason on some level that we're here for this experience. Again, ideas and stories.   Gil Hedley:  (48:16) Punishment. You're being punished. You've come to the earth because you suck.   Tahnee:  (48:22) I heard a spiritual teacher stay the other day. He said, "You've been very naughty. That's why you're here." And it made me laugh, and it was in the time of Coronavirus. I was like, maybe it's our great punishment or something   Gil Hedley:  (48:38) Yeah, I don't think so. I have sneakingly suspicious that we're not being punished.   Tahnee:  (48:45) Yeah, I mean, my partner and I talk about these things a lot. We both feel that, I've always used the analogy of like Super Mario. I had a little Gameboy when I was a kid and it's like, why am I putting myself through this? It's because I learn and I grow and I get better. It's that self-development that motivates my life and obviously motivates yours. It's like that constant curiosity and questioning. I think that's fun.   Gil Hedley:  (49:13) Yeah, some of us are cursed with that drive to grow. What is that about?   Tahnee:  (49:20) Maybe we did something naughty.   Gil Hedley:  (49:21) Yeah. We must have done something naughty.   Tahnee:  (49:24) I have one sort of last question that which is curious to me as a movement, as somebody who I guess practises yoga asana as well as other things. You talk a lot about textures and about feeling textures. I know like bodies. Actually, I have a couple of questions in here. So I know you do like fixed dissections and then also gooey ones, which Joe and I actually talked about last year when I saw her she was saying that she'd done, like the brain was just like a puddle. It was very different to a normal brain.   Gil Hedley:  (50:00) Very different. Yeah. It's moving. Why is it moving?   Tahnee:  (50:03) So this idea that because most of us, even if we've seen anatomical models, they've been quite fixed by the formaldehyde and that kind of processing that goes on. You work with bodies that are quite fresh sometimes. We are really just sacks to goo and space and water and stuff, right?   Gil Hedley:  (50:27) It's pretty well differentiated in there actually.   Tahnee:  (50:29) Okay.   Gil Hedley:  (50:31) Yeah, I guess I'm not a massive goo, but tubes of goo. Is that kind of ...?   Tahnee:  (50:38) Yeah, well, there is a very watery quality to the body that's not fixed. There's a very, well for lack of a better word, sort of chickeny quality, cooked quality to the fixed bodies. Neither of them really capture the, the true tone of the human form and its textures. There are advantages and disadvantages to studying both. That's why I like to do them both because they're complementary rather than one better than the other. I couldn't work for seven straight weeks on an unfixed body because it would be rotten by the end of it.   Gil Hedley:  (51:16) The decay is too rapid and the fixed bodies, if it's done well, you can read into them the properties of the unfixed body. So the textures that I'm feeling into also represent differences, right? I can extrapolate from textures that are slightly off differences that can be palpated in the living form, right? So although the textures might not be the same, there are relative differences conveyed to the living form, whether it be a fixed or a unfixed body. can I can make use of the donated forms, the models as I call them, to interpret and read into the living body in the same way that a good tracker can read into the hoof prints of an antelope herd and pick out the the young and the weak, and walk after those hoof prints. Sure enough, come upon the young and the weak that are worn out, that just lie down and then the Bushmen of the Kalahari, just they can just dinner is served.   Tahnee:  (52:40) Got served.   Gil Hedley:  (52:43) I basically consider myself a tracker. You know, I don't I don't take the track for the being, right? I don't mistake the track for the antelope, but I can learn a whole lot about the antelope from the track. I can learn a whole lot about movement dynamics, fluid dynamics, structure function from the track that is the deceased human body.   Tahnee:  (53:14) So this idea of then movement, it becomes more about experiencing or developing this ability to perceive the textures. Is that what you're kind of getting at when you talk about movement practise and bringing this stuff in? Because there is that sort of Taoist idea that junk kind of congregates at the joints. I guess being dense and less full of goo perhaps, maybe is where that idea is coming from on a physical level.   Gil Hedley:  (53:45) The joints are pretty full of goo too actually. I just had a handful of synovial fluid this afternoon and my hand. I was like, wow, this is serious goo.   Tahnee:  (53:55) I guess that's more goo than what I'm imagining, because I'm imagining if there's a fluid and then a junction that's gooier, you can imagine things getting trapped there as opposed to like moving through muscle tissue where maybe there's more blood, it's more dynamic, there's more access. In my body, I can feel that those movements have a different texture and I guess a different experience. Is that kind of what you're talking to? I guess I'm just trying to comprehend how I would experience texture in my body.   Gil Hedley:  (54:28) Touch, just grope around.   Tahnee:  (54:30) Just touch it.   Gil Hedley:  (54:32) Yeah, just touch it.   Tahnee:  (54:32) Yep. I've got some rope up here in my shoulders.   Gil Hedley:  (54:35) Well, exactly. That's exactly right. So it's like, oh, I feel some rope up there. What's moving or not moving their? Or oh, this is kind of mushy, no matter how hard I try and contract it. What's going on there? Or when I turn this way, I feel stiff. When I turn that way, I can keep going. What does that texture feel like or what does it mean to move from my bones or what does it mean to move from my deep fascia versus my superficial fascia or from my membranes? Can I actually ... Actually when you can begin to sort of get a sense of those textures in your movement. We see this in the sort of traditional movement arts around the planet. Someone who's doing Xing Yi is moving from their sinews, from their tendons, and their deep, deep fascia. Very different than someone who's practising Aikido or something, right? Or someone who's doing Kung Fu or Karate or Taekwondo.   Gil Hedley:  (55:51) Those all the martial arts are actually deep explorations and moving from different textural foundations in the body and exploring their power, and the individual's relationship to the movement potential of those different layers. I find that fascinating, and fun to explore. and easy to see. For me, from my vision when I'm looking at, I'm like, "Oh, wow, that's a real muscley movement I'm looking at there," or wow, I look at my friend Russell Malphite, who's a choreographer in London and man that dude is liquid, he's just moving. He enters into the, the fluid potential, the fluid surfaces that are inherent within his body, and then he projects that out into space for all of us to witness.   Gil Hedley:  (56:48) Your jaw drops and you're like, wow, how can that even be? How can a person move like that? With that as your mirror, it confronts your own movement way of being in the world. This is ethics, your own movement way of being in the world which may be conserved or stiff or held in textures that are more wooden. That might be conveying a wooden mentality or a wooden religiosity or disdain for your own sexuality so that you can't actually get a wave going through your spine or an infinity wave going through your pelvis because that would be judged as seductive or something. Yeah. So that's kind of what I'm getting at.   Tahnee:  (57:36) Yeah, we have a friend who's, his name's the Movement Monk. But he teaches just those explorations. When I was practising them, and I heard you speak to that, I thought about it, because I mean, practising a lot of Yin. You really feel like that deep fascia, those rebound kind of sensations, and that's something I think for me, in my eyes, I think I was, must be early 20s when I first practised Yin. It was such a visceral and distinct sensation versus like the muscular action I supposed I was used to from athletics and life, and even regular yoga. I feel like we've lost a lot of that, I guess kind of exploratory function in modern movement. So it's nice to feel like maybe it's coming back a little bit. Yeah, well, that's probably a nice place to wrap up. So thank you. I mean, I really appreciate you taking the time. You must be knackered. The Australian, I don't know if that's an American word. Very tired.   Gil Hedley:  (58:42) Yeah, it's a very American word. Knackered, we say that all the time. Yeah.   Tahnee:  (58:46) Yeah.   Gil Hedley:  (58:46) We say, "I'm wasted. I'm so tired. I'm wasted."   Tahnee:  (58:50) In Australia, that means you drunk too many beers.   Gil Hedley:  (58:53) Yeah, that means that here too actually.   Tahnee:  (58:56) Yeah, so thank you so much. I really appreciate your time.   Gil Hedley:  (58:59) Thank you, Tahnee.   Tahnee:  (59:00) Yeah, I'll put all the links to your work on our webpage so that people can find you. But do you want to just rattle off your website for us? GilHedley, right?   Gil Hedley:  (59:10) Www.GilHedley.com, G-I-L-H-E-D-L-E-Y dot C-O-M. There's tonnes of free stuff there. So enjoy it.   Tahnee:  (59:16) Yeah.   Gil Hedley:  (59:17) Yeah.   Tahnee:  (59:17) Also you're on YouTube, you've got your famous fuzz speech, which I know you've probably copped a lot slack about it.   Gil Hedley:  (59:23) Very kind to not ask me for a whole hour about the fuzz speech.   Tahnee:  (59:27) I figured you've probably been there and they'll be stuff out there about it.   Gil Hedley:  (59:32) Yeah. It's not a problem. I'm happy to speak to that anytime. But actually I do on my website, if you join it, which involves putting your email down. I won't email you back unless you have beg me to, basically I have three free full length video courses that amount to about 16 hours of teaching an on camera dissection. That'll give you my learning curve over the years and a whole lot of cool content, then I put that up there, especially for you Australians, because-   Tahnee:  (01:00:02) I know. I've been dying to come for years.   Gil Hedley:  (01:00:06) I always feel bad. I mean, I'm honoured that the Australians come to my courses. They're always like, "When are you going to come to Australia?" I'm like, never. Just do that.   Tahnee:  (01:00:16) The logistics must be difficult to arrange a cadaver in another country.   Gil Hedley:  (01:00:20) It is. Yeah. I'm so busy with what I'm doing now that I'm not really looking to-   Tahnee:  (01:00:26) Yeah, expand in that way.   Gil Hedley:  (01:00:27) Multiply, multiply the number of times, the number of weeks I spend in the lab each year.   Tahnee:  (01:00:33) But don't worry we come to you.   Gil Hedley:  (01:00:35) Thank you.   Tahnee:  (01:00:35) Australians like travelling.   Gil Hedley:  (01:00:37) I'll be coming to you because all this stuff that I've been doing in the lab, I'm basically shooting footage for a massive online course.   Tahnee:  (01:00:45) Yeah, awesome.   Gil Hedley:  (01:00:45) Yeah, that'll take people-   Tahnee:  (01:00:46) Is there a timeline for that, Gil, in terms of ... Do you have a ...?   Gil Hedley:  (01:00:51) Give me a year, about a year, maybe less. I mean, the stuff on my website, I give away and it was just so I could learn how to make a website that could contain this massive thing that I'm building. Right now, we're shooting it. So there's a whole lot of other levels to making good education than just shooting the excellent video. I want to have it be flushed out as a whole course of study into the human body that's not exclusively laboratory based, but that has other elements to it as well in terms of exercise and exploration that can facilitate folks all over the world having a totally different experience to what it means to learn anatomy.   Tahnee:  (01:01:37) Yeah, I think that for me is such a gift. I mean, I'm sure I'm speaking for other people, but to not have to go through a traditional route to learn this stuff. I was looking at do I go back and do another degree and study. I'm like, I'm not going to learn what I want to learn as well. So that's really amazing we have these kind of independent options. That's something I can't imagine how much work that's been for you at the backend. So very grateful. Thanks.   Gil Hedley:  (01:02:11) I can't even tell you. I can't even tell you.   Tahnee:  (01:02:13) I mean, look, we sell herbs in a country and it's hard enough, I can't imagine what it's like moving tissue around. Yeah. I've heard some stories over the years of what you've jumped through. It's always impressed me. Anyway, on behalf of anyone out there who's listening, thank you. Yeah, I'll see you one day when the Coronavirus ends and the world is open again.   Gil Hedley:  (01:02:37) I look forward to it, Tahnee.   Tahnee:  (01:02:39) With existential experience.   Gil Hedley:  (01:02:39) Yeah.   Tahnee:  (01:02:42) All right. Thanks, Gil. Have a beautiful afternoon.   Gil Hedley:  (01:02:44) You're welcome. You too. Bye bye.

We start season 4 off by sharing the story of our first home birth. READ TRANSCRIPT[Aaron] Hey, we're Aaron and Jennifer Smith with Marriage After God.[Jennifer] Helping you cultivate an extraordinary marriage.[Aaron] And today we're gonna share our first home birth story. Welcome to the marriage after God podcast where we believe that marriage was meant for more than just happily ever after.[Jennifer] I am Jennifer, also known as unveiled wife.[Aaron] And I'm Aaron, also known as husband evolution.[Jennifer] We have been married for over 13 years.[Aaron] And so far we have five children under eight.[Jennifer] We have been doing marriage ministry online for over nine years through blogging, social media and writing over 10 books.[Aaron] With a desire to inspire couples to keep God at the center of their marriage, encouraging them to walk in faith every day.[Jennifer] We believe that Christian marriage should be an extraordinary one full of life...[Aaron] Love.[Jennifer] And power-[Aaron] That can only be found by chasing after God.[Jennifer] Together.[Aaron] Thank you for joining us in this journey as we chase boldly after God's will for our life together.[Jennifer] This is marriage after God.[Aaron] Hey everyone, welcome back to Marriage After God.[Jennifer] Season four.[Aaron] We're on season four. Yeah, this is crazy.[Jennifer] Awesome.[Aaron] We've had a lot of episodes, but we're back for season four. So if you're tuning in, welcome. If this is your first time, we're so glad that you're here. Listening to the Marriage After God podcasts. We pray that it's an encouragement to you and a blessing, but if you've been listening for a long time, welcome back. We're so excited to have you here.[Jennifer] Hi everyone.[Aaron] Yeah, and we're recording this in our garage as usual and it's still locked down season. And I know that a little interesting for everyone. It's interesting for us. Jennifer, have you had any thoughts about the season we're in with lockdown COVID-19 pandemic, unprecedented times.[Jennifer] Yeah, I mean, I've had some thoughts about it. I think what's been really a blessing is that we've been in postpartum season, so we had our baby and so we would have been kind of having a low key life anyways right now. Just with me resting, nursing is always usually an issue with our kids. Baby Edith had a tongue tie like several other of our children. And so the first couple of weeks was just basically me and her figuring that out. And so-[Aaron] I do feel like though we started self quarantine earlier because we were leading up to having the baby and then all of this stuff happened right around the same time as having the baby.[Jennifer] Yeah. I would say this we had a really good distraction from what was happening in the world. And so now we're kind of like coming up out of that we just hit the six week mark after having the baby. And I think the most important thing has been for me has been to communicate with you in navigating this pandemic and what the world looks like these days. And it gives me peace, being able to talk to you. It gives me a bit of relief and just knowing that I can share my thoughts, my concerns, whatever that I'm going through with you. What would you say?[Aaron] Well, same. We've been having a lot of conversations about it. We've also had a lovely conversation with our kids. It's kind of hard to like hide it from them cause why can't we hang out with our friends? Why can't we go out? And we're like, "Well, there's a lot of things going on the world." which is going on.[Jennifer] And as an encouragement to parents, I think it's so important that we really understand that our kids lean on us for security and support, especially in times like these. So when they have these big questions, we should be answering them. If they see us being able to have peace and hope and joy amidst the chaos it will give them guidance on how they can respond in times like these. if they sense in us fear and anxiety over the situation, then that could also influence them. So I think as parents, I think it's really cool to see that God has given us an opportunity with our kids to help them navigate this whole thing. And I think it's good for us to engage in conversation with them. It doesn't mean we have to explain everything, especially we can keep it age appropriate. But just being able to willing to have conversations with them.[Aaron] Well, and also being honest with them and letting them know that sometimes we don't have the answers. Like we don't know the appropriate way to respond to all this. We don't know exactly how this is going to turn out. We don't know... Like we just, there's a lot of answers we don't have.[Jennifer] And then we tell them, but our trust and our hope is in God. And so it's another opportunity to point them back to God and encourage their hearts to be able to trust God and I don't know, just to be able to move forward still in life and know that he has us.[Aaron] Yeah, and it's also been good to, I feel like in America we have a lot of comforts and this has shown us how dependent we might be on some comforts. And also brought us to a point that one of the other benefits to this is reminding us of our need for Christ, our need for his peace, his satisfaction, being satisfied in him alone. So one thing we've been trying to encourage our children, whether we catch it or not, whether we are always healthy, we don't know how this is going to turn out. We encourage them to know that God is good. God has us, he knows his plans for us and that we can't control all of those things, but what we can do is look to God who's in control.[Jennifer] Yeah, Aaron, you brought up comforts and especially living here in America. However this whole thing has also allowed us to see how people might be struggling. So you use the word comfort, but I also want to just mention that there's a lot people who've been greatly impacted by this whole thing in a negative way in a lot of different ways. So, I dunno if you want to speak to that.[Aaron] Well, yeah, we know that there's millions and millions of people that have lost their jobs. Some might not get them back. And so our hearts break for that situation. And we know that there's people that are sick. We know that there's people that are, that have other issues going on, that are not COVID-19 related and are having a hard time dealing with that. There's mental issues, there's abuse, there's a lot of things going on in this world that are being exasperated by this situation. And so-[Jennifer] As Christians, I think that we need to remember all of that especially if maybe we're in a different situation, but no matter what our hearts should be to be in prayer for everyone who's been impacted by it.[Aaron] And also been asking the Lord how we can be used.[Jennifer] Yeah, cause we're his body.[Aaron] We might know someone that needs some love, some reaching out, some help. And so we should be aware of that and ready for that. And we should be praying for each other. Praying for those that are going through hard situations and our prayers should not just be, "God, make their situation better."[Jennifer] Or even, "God let us go just back to normal."[Aaron] Right, because that's a thing that I have is like, "Hey, can we just go back to normal?" Our kids keep praying like God make this go away. They miss normalcy. But our prayer should be that hearts are softened. Hearts are turned towards the Lord, that people are brought back to the Lord, that people that don't know the Lord and find him, that families are healed and mended, that like these deeper things. That even if the body is broken, the spirit can be made whole. And so, yes, we should be praying for healing. Yes, it's good to pray for being taken care of financially and being taken care of in these ways. But right now, this is the time when man, the spirit of God catches hold of people. And so we should be praying that hearts are ready to receive. Hearts are open to hear the word of God are being watered and seeds are being planted. And that's, I mean, I don't know, more than anything. I want people to be saved in this time for eternity, not just for the season. So do you have any last thoughts on, I mean there's gonna be lots of thoughts.[Jennifer] I know we could probably do a whole episode on it. Two things. The first thing I was just thinking, if people are listening to this episode in the future. So like going-Yeah, after the-[Jennifer] After the fact, after all this has kind of settled down a bit. I just wonder what their thoughts would be just being reminded of this time. And then my other thought was just an encouragement and it's just for husbands and wives, it's an encouragement to be communicating with each other because no matter what your situation looks like right now you have someone right next to you who's going through it with you. And sometimes, I don't know those listening are like me, but sometimes I get caught up in my head where I'm having conversations in my head, even with you Aaron, and I'm like answering for you. But, then I realized I haven't actually talked to you in a couple of days about how I'm feeling or about what I'm thinking. So my encouragement is, especially in times like these that we are open and transparent and vulnerable specifically with each other.[Aaron] Yeah, I was also thinking, we are friends and families. Not being afraid to just come straight out and say, "Hey, how are you dealing with all this? "Hey, how's your heart? "Are you going through any sort of depression? "Is there any fears that you're like-[Jennifer] Yeah, are you okey?[Aaron] "that are just getting inside your heart." And just asking so that they can be maybe brought out of that darkness, maybe brought out of their shell and not be afraid to ask those questions. Cause I would imagine there's a lot of people dealing with hidden fears and anxieties right now.[Jennifer] And it's okay if you don't know how to answer them. It's okay if the greatest thing you can even say is I'm going to be praying for you or just stop and pray for them right then and there. But I think it was important that we just spend a little bit of time on that since this is such a huge thing going on in our lives right now. And our hearts go out to everyone. And we know this is just crazy, but God is good, like you said.[Aaron] And God's not surprised by any of this stuff. I just wanted to bring up a verse. James 1:12 says, Blessed is the the man who remains steadfast under trial, for when he has stood the test, he will receive the crown of life, which God has promised to those who love him. Over and over again the New Testament speaks of steadfastness and continuing on and standing strong and standing firm. And I just want to encourage everyone, you believers out there, that we need to stand strong in the word of God and we need to remember who's got us, whose hand upholds us, who guides our steps and makes our paths and brings light into our life and it's God. And so we need to put our strength, our hope and strengths in him because they're not, and our hopes are not in the government. They're not in a vaccine, they're not in treatments, they're not in the, it just going away or those things are going to come and things happen, but we can't control any of this stuff. We just can't. And if we put our hope in those things that our hope is gonna fail. So let's put our hope in the only thing that's consistent, the only one that is a firm foundation and it's God and his word. And let's look to him for wisdom and guidance on how as believers we are to approach this thing that was going on. Cause he's the only, James also says, "If you lack wisdom, ask. "And we will be given wisdom as long as we do not doubt." And so let's ask him for wisdom. I need wisdom. We've been talking a lot about this man. Like how do we deal with all of these things? And we're definitely don't deal with it in fear, but we don't deal with it on our own strengths, our own wisdom. We lean not on our own understanding, but on every word, on God's wisdom. So that's what I just want to encourage everyone with is remain steadfast in these trials. And let's look to God for answers and our hope and for our courage and our wisdom.[Jennifer] And our peace.[Aaron] Oh, most importantly, our peace. So, that was just a bit of a encouraging word for everyone. We need it ourselves. I mean, he reminded ourselves, but I just want to invite everyone to, if you have children or if you're thinking about having children or if you're pregnant, we have something that we've created for you. It's a free resource and it's called the parenting prayer challenge. You can go to parentingprayerchallenge.com all one word and it's completely free to sign up and we will send you over the next 31 days, email with something to pray for and a reminder to pray for it. And it's pretty awesome. We've had almost a thousand people sign up for it and we would love for you to take advantage of it. We created it just for you. And man, it's an awesome thing and it reminds us as parents to pray for our children and there's awesome prompts in there to pray for all these different areas of your child's life. So yeah, we just, it's parentingprayerchallenge.com it's totally free and become part of the people that are going through that challenge.[Jennifer] All right, so today's topic is our first home birth story. No, it's not our first birth story. Obviously if you've followed us for any amount of time, this was baby number five. And, it's just kind of an interesting story and we're excited to share it with you guys.[Aaron] What's more interesting is that we actually fit every one of our kids and us inside of our explorer.[Jennifer] It's tightly, but it's good.[Aaron] It's tight. But that was just a fun little adventure that we figured out.[Jennifer] Aaron was surprised by that.[Aaron] I was a little surprised. They would fit without car seats. But the trick is as we have five car seats. We have actually we have-Four cars seats.[Aaron] four cars and two boosters or is it three car seats, two boosters.[Jennifer] Right.[Aaron] And just the way it's all arranged, we barely fit. It will be a lot better when some of them are out of their boosters. That'll make a big difference, but-[Jennifer] That's okay. Thanks for sharing. so the first four births were done in the hospital and we were happy with those experiences and we had the same, what's it called? It's not a goal. Same birth plan.[Aaron] Our plan was, we'd love to having children in the hospital, actually really love our local hospital here.[Jennifer] And food is so good.[Aaron] The rooms are just really nice and quite.[Jennifer] The people are so nice.[Aaron] It's been good. So we're not opposed to hospital births by any means.[Jennifer] No, we had that plan held in our hands. My whole pregnancy really, and the word changed that at the finish line.[Aaron] Pretty much, yeah.[Jennifer] And so it was our first home birth and I got gotta be honest, I was nervous. Even in the past I've been nervous to even consider a home birth, even though I know people and I've followed people online that have had them.[Aaron] And even though your pregnancies and labors have all been considerably like easy, not easy and-Easy is a funny word-[Aaron] It's safe, I should say.[Jennifer] Yes. Not emergency or anything.[Aaron] Nothing, you haven't had any big emergencies. It's like it just, it goes as planned usually.[Jennifer] Yeah. So anyways, I don't know. We just, we held our birth plan loosely as we believe people should and we submit it to the Lord. And really the last trimester is when all of the world started falling apart with the pandemic. And even more so in the last few weeks of my pregnancy. Protocols at the hospital started changing.[Aaron] They started limiting the number of people that could be in the rooms.[Jennifer] We started seeing a lot more articles online being shown stories of that happening. And I came home from one of my last appointments and I was sharing with Aaron these changes that had just been made and we were about to have our baby and I, there was a part of me that just was wondering what is the hospital experience going to be like? And we're just sharing some of our thoughts with each other.[Aaron] And we also, because a big part of this conversation is what was going on in the world. It wasn't just like whether or not we wanted to have a home birth. It was what is our, what does this situation look like for us amidst all of like the virus that's going around. And so we were discussing this and I just wanted to let everyone know that our number one discussion was, are we afraid? Are we gonna be in fear? Are we gonna make decisions or are we gonna be going into this with any anxieties? Because those are realities like, "Oh my gosh, we got to go to like the hospital, "which is where everyone goes that has, "that gets the virus." So that was a part of this conversation was. We are not going to be afraid regardless. Like whether we are going to be exposed or not. We want to have no fear. We want to trust the Lord because he does know what's going on, so.[Jennifer] Totally. Yeah, and also so everyone knows Aaron has been an advocate for home birth for several of my pregnancies. You would ask me like, "Hey, are you interested this time?"[Aaron] I've been pushing for a while.[Jennifer] But you've always been supportive too of what we've decided together. And so, when I came home from that appointment, I shared everything with you. And you suggested it again. You're like, "What about a home birth?" And I'm like, I kind of laughed about it. I was like, no, no, no, no. Like if I'm too far in my pregnancy that's crazy talk, I would have to adjust mentally and it just seems-[Aaron] And I would even be able to get a midwife. How is this gonna work?[Jennifer] It seemed impossible. And you were so hopeful and you're like, "Why don't you just call them and just see what's going on? "Cause maybe they've talked to other people about this." And so I made the phone call and no one answered. And I said, "See, okay, so we're not doing that."[Aaron] Did you leave a message?[Jennifer] Yeah. So by the end of that day, I had been praying and it had been on my heart just to consider both a hospital birth or a home birth. And the Lord gave me so much peace and I was okay with either one.[Aaron] And the same, yeah.[Jennifer] So when I said earlier about having an open hand, having my birth plan and an open hand and open heart, it was this piece that I had that was like, no matter what happens or how I give birth, it's the Lord.[Aaron] I actually remember, I think it was a, I don't know the exact date, but it was about a week before this. You posted a picture of the kids or something on Instagram and you wrote this beautiful thing saying, "Hey, here's my birth plan. "We want to do this." And you said, "but open-handed of course."[Jennifer] Yeah, it was an infant story and it was right at the bottom.[Aaron] And I said, but open-handed of course. And you had this whole idea. And it was before everything started getting really crazy. News-wise, but I remember you got someone messaged you and said, "Please don't have it at the hospital." Cause they were so concerned that's where you shouldn't be. And there were, it was so loving and so concerned. And we saw that and we're like, huh. But we didn't like talk about it.[Jennifer] I didn't think about it.[Aaron] But looking back on it, I was like, "Oh, that was kinda cool. "It was like open handed." Someone was like encouraging you in that direction, but.[Jennifer] So anyways, we were praying about it, but we hadn't heard back from the midwife and until the next morning. Give me some questions and I think they were just being really nice given the situation of what was happening in our world and our state. But because I had established care throughout my pregnancy, I didn't have any-[Aaron] There was no flags.[Jennifer] There was, yeah, there was no red flags, there was no problems or issues that I had throughout my pregnancy. My past pregnancies have been healthy and my labors have been fine and I haven't needed interventions or anything like that. And so they said yes and they were willing to meet with me that day.[Aaron] Which is they never do.[Jennifer] I just felt-[Aaron] They were willing to do this in this season for you.[Jennifer] Yeah. It just felt like an impossible situation that God just said, "Here, this is what I want you to walk through." And I got off the phone almost in tears because I then I had to tell Aaron that it was a go and I was, I was like, okay but like, yeah, this is, I didn't know, I was speechless really. I don't know how to explain that.[Aaron] Did you want not to tell me?[Jennifer] No, no, no, no, but I, and there was a part of me that was really excited, like I have never done a home birth before. Like how cool that I get to do this now. And then my next immediate thought was, "Oh my gosh, are we prepared for this?" Because I didn't know. I hadn't been researching about what to have for a home birth. So that, the next thing-[Aaron] I know is a little weird to think about. Like, what am I supposed... Am I supposed to have anything?[Jennifer] Yeah. So the other cool thing is that we didn't really need much. I felt like what I had like in my hospital bag and things at home already we were prepared for. There's just a couple of other things that you went out to get like an extra set of sheets and I don't remember.[Aaron] Some pillows and something like that.[Jennifer] I don't remember.[Aaron] The midwife give you a list of things. We had like 90% of the things on the list already.[Jennifer] Yeah. And they provided-[Aaron] There was only a few things I had to get. So that was pretty cool.[Jennifer] Then I had to wrap my head around it mentally and that just took prayer and me so many into God and saying, okay Lord, help me transition.[Aaron] Yeah, I think you mentioned a little bit ago that I've tried, I've been a proponent for home births and you said you don't know and I was okay with you doing hospital births, but I remember you saying like, "I'll do it when I have to."[Jennifer] Yeah like if something's gonna push me to do it, then I will. Like I'm not opposed to it. I just, I'm not ready for that yet.[Aaron] And I was like, "Maybe this is the thing making you have to," but it was perfect cause it was what you had committed to in your heart was like, "Well, when I have to, I will." And this was kind of one of those situations where I was like, we didn't have to, it would probably would have been totally fine, but we had the opportunity.[Jennifer] Well that's the thing is at the end of that day, I just knew I had peace that, or I'm sorry that the day before I knew that God would help us through no matter what we chose, whether it was home birth or hospital. And I had so much peace about it and I think that's why getting off the phone with the midwife, I was excited and okay and yet nervous about it.[Aaron] Of course yeah.[Jennifer] It was so neat that God provided a way for that. And so we started preparing for that. We started telling the kids we were cleaning the house, we were making a way for that to take place. And it was just a really exciting time for our family. A very short time.[Aaron] Yeah. Though the week prior, I was on maybe five days before we had the baby, I took the, we do have a chalkboard in our kitchen I did a little game with the kids and I said, I want, so who, what day do you think mom is gonna have the baby? And we started doing this voting and I would put down like, do you think it's going to be Monday? And it was like, leading up to the due date. And so everyone put their little dates down, even Truett voted. And I'm just bringing this up because me and Elliot were right. And so, we actually voted for the due date, which was the 20th.[Jennifer] I actually remember coming out and you explaining this whole thing to me and Elliot looking up at me going, "Mom, the reason I chose your due date is because 'you haven't had a baby on your due date yet." And he just thought that would be so cool.[Aaron] Yeah, and that's why we actually voted that because I feel like all the babies have been either right before or right after and it wasn't like way after.[Jennifer] Yeah, well Elliot, our first and Truett our fourth, were both due, were both born a day before their due date. Olive was three days past. And Wyatt was eight days past.[Aaron] Yeah, he was a big baby. But so we voted for the 20th, which is pretty cool because you were having like on the 19th, I remember you were kind of having some contractions but it didn't like go anywhere. And then the 20th, when did they start?[Jennifer] So I didn't have any, like I wasn't feeling any contractions the day before, but I just felt like it was going to happen soon. Like I could just tell my body was getting ready. But contractions started at about 1:30 in the morning, on her due date.[Aaron] Oh, that's what that, okay. It was 1:30 in the morning. That when it was.[Jennifer] Yeah. And they started and they were pretty close together. I mean seven, eight minutes apart, pretty consistently for a few hours. And then we got disrupted. Truett woke up, which he never does with a huge explosion, poop explosion. I'm trying to keep it clean here.[Aaron] It was horrible. It was all over his bed. It was all over him.[Jennifer] I've never had an experience like with having five kids now, I've never had an experience like this. So to be contracting and have that, I'm like, wait a minute.[Aaron] What time was that?[Jennifer] It was like five o'clock in the morning.[Aaron] It was early. So I'm up, like we're putting him in the bath and there's like poop everywhere. It was like, so gross.[Jennifer] So I told Aaron, you go lay in bed with him and since I'm up anyways, I'll do the laundry and-[Aaron] We couldn't put him back in his bed. It was like a war zone.[Jennifer] It was crazy. So now that you guys are all grossed out, I know. I feel like that just distracted my mind and body or maybe that's just the way it was supposed to be. But contractions kind of slowed down and were more sporadic. So it was like 11 to 15 minutes apart for a long time. I mean hours and I have a cute story, another cute story about Truett. This one's cleaner. About 10 o'clock in the morning I came out of the bedroom and Aaron had been hanging out with the kids and you left to go to the bathroom or something. And I started contracting. I had a big contraction and so I threw two pillows down on the living room floor and I was kneeling in front of them because I was gonna kind of try and either lay down or hold them. And Truett comes up and lays down on the pillows looking up at me and I'm just like on my hands and knees looking down at him. But I'm like trying to breathe through this contraction and he's just smiling. It was like a little redemptive moment for us, but it was sweet. So I labored all day at home. And one cool thing that I wanted to share with you guys is, the night before I went into labor, I was doing a little bit of research and just reading people's home birth stories that they've shared on their blogs. And I can't remember exactly who's I read, but she said this, she said, "Through every contraction "I used the opportunity to pray for someone else. "My husband, my children, friends." And I remembered that as soon as I started contracting and I said, "Oh, I'm gonna do that." I was determined. I was like committed to it, to this idea of prayer throughout each contraction. And it was such a beautiful experience. You guys, every time a contraction came, I would quickly think of someone who I would want to pray for my family, friends, really random things that, I kinda just like allowed the Lord to bring to my mind in that moment, whatever he wanted me to pray for. And so I would pray from the beginning of the contraction, throughout to the end. And not only was it a good distraction from the pain, but what a cool experience to use that opportunity to draw closer to the Lord and to lift up others. Like it was just, I recommend that for anyone going through labor. It was so beautiful.[Aaron] Yeah, it was actually beautiful to watch because you told me you're like, I'm using contractions to pray. And I was like, "Oh, that's awesome."[Jennifer] Yeah. What was actually even crazier was there was this one contraction that I was determined to pray for kids who during specifically this pandemic and stay having stay at home orders who have experienced abuse at home. And I had seen something on social media, maybe Facebook about this. And I hadn't thought about it before then. And so it stood out to me. And so, the contraction started and I started praying for these kids who are at home and possibly experiencing abuse. And as I was praying, you guys, the contractions started building up and becoming more intense and more painful. And it hadn't been like this in all the other contractions and it lasted the longest. And I just kept praying for these children. And by the end of it, I remember telling you, Aaron, that I felt like the Lord was showing me like almost like in relation to their pain, how bad my contraction was. It was kind of really interesting, but my heart just broke for that.[Aaron] Yeah, I think I remember you were crying a little bit in that one.[Jennifer] So, anyways, if you guys are pregnant or if you are gonna have a baby and you're thinking about contracting. I don't know, just remember this, pray, use that time to pray for other people. It's really cool.[Aaron] It's a similar experience to fasting. Like the point of fasting is when the hunger pains come on. When your flesh wants to be fed or to be consoled, we pray. It's the trigger point to pray. I wanted to just bring up a verse real quick, just talking about this whole experience because we have so many plans in life, we have this, we set in our mind how we want something to happen, how we want something to go. I mean, I don't think it was in anyone's mind that the world was going to change the way it's changing, but guess what? It changed. And things are changing every day. And, Proverbs 19:21 says, Many are the plans in the mind of a man but it is the purpose of the Lord that will stand. And so it's awesome. I mean, in this situation, we got circular, whatever your purposes, we want that to stand. We'd get, of course we have plans. We're going to make plans, there's many of them. But are we gonna be irritated when our plans get foiled? When our plans don't come true and we get blinded to see like, well, what is God doing? Like, God apparently wants something else to be happening right now. That's contrary to my own plans. And so when we can say, "Okay, Lord, like yes, we've made plans, "but what we want more is your purposes to be, to stand."[Jennifer] That's really good.[Aaron] So that's kind of what we saw happening here. And there's other things that God had in store for this, but I just wanted to point everyone back to God's purposes.[Jennifer] Awesome. So as my contractions progressed, they got a little bit closer together and, but nothing really was like showing us that delivery was soon. So this was probably around nap time. So I remember Aaron coming in the bedroom after he laid the kids down and, you just started praying for me and you weren't telling God what to do because we don't do that. But you were like, let's get the show on the road. I want to meet my daughter. And you were really excited for things too.[Aaron] Well, I remember you told me, like, you're not, you don't know why it's slowed down. You're like, I feel like we were getting somewhere. Cause we were, it was getting, they were getting closer and closer and closer and consistent. And then it was like, they just totally like tapered off and slowed down. They were still there, but, and you were just like, I don't know. And I was like, "Well, let's pray about it."[Jennifer] Yeah, and it was kind of a sporadic day, like a very, like when I think about my other four and I even told the midwives this, when I first met them that with my other four kids, once contraction started, they would-They don't stop.[ Jennifer] they don't stop and they just keep going. And then I have the baby and they're generally short labors and this was not like that. This was just different and-[Aaron] Maybe being home made you much more relaxed.[Jennifer] I don't know. I don't know what it was, but I do think this, something that was on my mind. And I remember sharing this with you after you prayed for me, was that I love end times, when we think about Christ return and all of that, and there's a verse, people probably know what I'm referring to, but it's in Matthew 24. And one of the disciples asked when the end of the age is going to come and Jesus goes off explaining the Wars and rumors of Wars and famines and all these things that are hard. And then at the very end, he said, all of these are, but the beginning of the birth pains. So they're like contractions and-[Aaron] He points out the world chaos as contractions, just like in labor.[Jennifer] Yeah, until the delivery of our King.[Aaron] Which showed off light and distant and they get more and more aggressive and closer together.[Jennifer] But sometimes they also slow down. It's kind of like, we get these moments of peace and everything's great. And everything in the world seems to be going fine. And then you get this really big contraction or you get this really painful one, or you get this really long one. And you're like, "Wow, this is not stopping." And so I felt like the Lord kind of gave me this picture with what I was physically and experiencing and enduring, with how sporadic the day was with my contractions and showing him a picture of the world and saying, sometimes it feels like you're about to have that baby. And then it slows down and stops. And there's this rest period.[Aaron] Well, and I wanna expound on that encouragement a little bit, because I think as the church at large, would it be valuable for us to continue to remember that we do have? The Lord is returning. And the things that he's shown us in scripture, like what we see going on in the world, the Wars, the rumors of Wars, the pestilence, the massive earthquakes, the volcanoes, all these things, like everything. Like the chaos in the world, there birth pains. And so it could look scary, but for the believer for the one who has our faith in Christ.[Jennifer] We know it's to come.[Aaron] There's something good coming on the other end. The Bible says, that in birth, the woman is in pain, but once the baby comes, she's forgotten the pain. And the point is of course you don't forget the pain, but the thing that you've been waiting for and going through the pain for is now here.[Jennifer] I think there's a version of the Bible that says that she's in anguish. Is not even just pain. It's like emotional and physical and it's draining.[Aaron] So church believers, we can look at the world and these things that we see going on the world shouldn't cause fear in us, it should bring us hope. And that's what even Jesus has. He says, I tell you these things that you might have hope because when we see these things, as the believer, we know what they mean. Just like when I see my wife going into contractions, I don't think, what's happening? I think, "Oh man, the more painful "and the more close these get together, "the sooner I'm gonna meet my daughter." And so even though it's painful and it's a struggle and it's a trial, it's temporary. And we even know that Paul says, "I know that our current struggles "are nothing to be compared with the coming glory." So I just want to encourage you believers out there that, the Bible, Jesus and the Bible gives us this idea of birth pains for a reason, because the example we get in birth of the contraction starting far apart, we get to look at the things going on the world and say, wow, the more that we see these, the closer they get together, it should turn our eyes up to look for our savior.[Jennifer] Yup. That's good. So, I feel like right after you prayed over me during that nap time, the Lord must have heard because things started picking up-[Aaron] Pretty quick.[Jennifer] pretty quickly. The contractions started getting closer together, more painful and just really the signs of labor were just all converging. And what was really cool was Olive's home. And so she got to participate. I remember so many times-[Aaron] Another benefit of having the baby at home.[Jennifer] Yeah, our four year old little daughter, almost five, was so thrilled to be able to participate in it. And she would, I would be on that big, the big bouncing ball, through contractions and she'd be sitting in front of me on my bed and she'd reach out and put her hand on my leg and encourage me. She'd rub my arms.[Aaron] Shoulders.[Jennifer] She'd look up at me and she go, "Mom, you can do this." Or she'd caught pretty much copy Aaron, anything that Aaron did, she'd do five minutes later. So she'd say, mom, she'd see a contraction coming. She goes, "Mom, just breathe." And then she breath with me-[Aaron] Yeah cause I kept reminding you like breathe, open your mouth.[Jennifer] Yeah, so that was really sweet. There was a handful of time. She prayed for me.[Aaron] What was that thing she told you? There was a moment as you got closer and you were just like, I think you said, I can't do this. Or I don't think I could do this. That's what it was. I don't think I could do this. What did she say?[Jennifer] She said, "You could do it, mom." I don't remember.[Aaron] It was really powerful. She was like, "You can do it mom. "And actually you have to do it the baby is coming."[Jennifer] Yeah. She's serious.[Aaron] She was good.[Jennifer] She's so funny, but such an encourager. And actually now she would love to be a midwife when she grows up after realizing what they do, handling mamas and babies all day.[Aaron] She wasn't freaked out by any of it.[Jennifer] No, she was such so strong. So yeah, things started picking up and I knew I was getting closer. So we called the midwife to come check on us and my friend Angie, who was going to be present at the birth. And another thing that I wanted to share with you guys is one of my desires from the beginning of this pregnancy was-[Aaron] Plans.[Jennifer] I mean, yeah. Was to praise my baby out. And I know it sounds kind of weird, but I've heard other phrases of like breathing the baby out or just letting your body kind of push the baby out. But my heart was that I would worship God throughout the whole experience. And I wanted to be like highly aware that I was able to do this during labor and delivery. And not only did Olive remind me to be singing very loudly because she was doing that. We had a specific playlist that we were playing and the songs like Waymaker and I Will Wait For You by Shane and Shane, like just some really great songs.[Aaron] Did you have in Christ alone in there?[Jennifer] In Christ alone, it was my Anthem throughout pregnancy. I just, I played that song every day. I just, I love that song and it was actually the song she was born too, which is really cool.[Aaron] It came on, and then-[Jennifer] She came.she came.[Jennifer] It was so cool you guys. And also Angie, cause I have a really close relationship with her. She knew this was a desire of mine. And towards the end specifically, I remember hearing her voice saying, "Jen remember to praise," like remember to sing, remember to worship and as hard as it was because I was giving birth and it's hard to even breathe at that time to be able to sing. It was like, my flesh was like, I don't want to do that right now. And then I heard the words of the song playing and I would just jump in and start singing. It was such a cool experience.[Aaron] I think you were singing it while you were pushing her out. Like it was that-[Jennifer] I was saying, "God you're good, " I feel so good."[Aaron] Yeah, it was pretty powerful and what's awesome is, another one of your plans and your heart's desire was to be like ministering and you wanted your labor to be a witness and a blessing to the nurses at the hospital.[Jennifer] I was just gonna say to the nurses at the hospital, it was one of my prayers throughout the pregnancy. I was praying for their hearts. I was praying for whoever was present at the birth to see God in it, whether it was in our relationship and the way we were interacting or in the actual birth. But my heart was that God would use this labor and delivery in a purposeful way in the hearts of those who were experiencing it alongside me, but what I didn't know was, I had been praying for the nurses and doctors. And then at the last minute we changed to a home birth.[Aaron] But God knew.[Jennifer] But God knew who was going to be there.[Aaron] And I remember that, I mean, you're singing worship songs. You're like are just the way we were interacting was really peaceful, really strong, really calm. And with our daughter there and just, I feel like the whole experience was very worshipful. It was really peaceful, really cool. And I know that it impacted the midwives that were there.[Jennifer] I hope so.[Aaron] First of all, they were awesome.[Jennifer] They were amazing.[Aaron] Really quiet, really calm like just really in control.[Jennifer] But also attentative.[Aaron] And attentative, yeah. And I remember afterwards, one of the midwives was saying, what did she say? We are truly honored to be a part of this. It almost looked like she's gonna cry. I don't know if she was or not, but it looked like they were truly like blessed if anything, by your labor, babe, like you did such a good job.[Jennifer] I praise God.[Aaron] Yeah it was awesome.[Jennifer] So little Edith joined us at five on the dot.[Aaron] Five o'clock yeah.[Jennifer] 5:00 PM on her due date with bright copper red hair. It's so beautiful.[Aaron] Yeah, we're praying really hard right now. And if you want to pray with us that she keeps that hair.[Jennifer] Oh, it's okay. It's just, all of our kids are blonde, so I'm assuming it'll change, but it's such a sweet color, especially in the side.[Aaron] Olive came out with really dark hair.[Jennifer] Yeah, it wasn't as red, but it was-[Aaron] It wasn't as red, Wyatt came out with like a-[Jennifer] Well, he was bald and so it was Truett.[Aaron] But its cute when it grew and it was a little red.[Jennifer] It was like a strawberry blonde. He's still kind strawberry blonde.[Aaron] But she is like, you were looking at it right now. It's super, she's super red.[Jennifer] She's sleeping. So anyways, all to say this, you guys, it was a really neat experience to be able to have a peaceful home birth. I thank the Lord that my past pregnancies and history was there. They were fine. And there was no interventions or-[Aaron] No complicated ones.[Jennifer] Yeah, there was no complications or anything like that. And that the Lord gave me the confidence to be able to say yes to this and that we were able to lean on each other, Aaron, to be able to do that.[Aaron] Do you feel like it was what God wanted?[Jennifer] I do. I feel like he had a plan from the beginning that he just didn't reveal to me until the end. Maybe he knew that's what I needed. I don't know.[Aaron] And we have no idea what God's doing in the hearts of those ladies that were with us and we need to keep praying for them because we don't know where they're at.[Jennifer] Or a daughter.[Aaron] Or a daughter. Yeah, But I mean-[Jennifer] I mean we know what's going-[Aaron] She's gonna become a midwife nurse.[Jennifer] She had all kinds of questions afterwards, but she just, she was thrilled to be able to participate in that way. I know it made her feel super special.[Aaron] So here's a question, probably all the pregnant ladies are thinking, would you do it again?[Jennifer] I remember texting a friend that later that night and she goes, so how was it? And I'm like, I'm a fan.[Aaron] Cause we have several people be like, "You can do this, you can do this." Cause we have a lot of friends that have done home births, almost all their kids, I think. And so they've been, they were really cheering you on another excited that you're like switched. And we know it's not for everybody.[Jennifer] But here, it's also something that I just keep telling myself as it's open. So like, even if we ever had another baby, I would be okay with having it in the hospital or at home. So it's just really submitting that to the Lord and saying, what do you want? This is for you.[Aaron] So babe I know there's probably a lot of women that are considering a home birth. If they've never had one before, how would you encourage someone who's already considering this?[Jennifer] Well for someone that's already considering it, I would just say again, pray about it and submit it to the Lord. Talk about it with your husband and do what research you need to do. All the questions that you might have surrounding it, go ask them, ask your friends, ask your care providers. Whoever's looking after you. But don't be afraid of it. I had a good friend tell me, like having a baby is not an emergency. It's a natural thing that God built our bodies to do.[Aaron] It's a good encouragement.[Jennifer] And we need to be able to trust that God's design works. Now there's a lot of cases out there where for whatever reason, someone needs to give birth in a hospital or someone needs an intervention and that's okay, too. So even for someone who's already planning a home birth or someone who desires a home birth, even they have to hold that birth plan loosely in their hands and submit it to the Lord and say, "God, what do you want from me?" And he might even change their plans to be a hospital birth. And I think the greatest thing is to just have peace no matter what that plan is and say, God, it's yours.[Aaron] Yeah, something I just want to remind everyone also is, and if you're not having caught it yet, we talk a lot about how our lives are to be ministry. It's not just like we have ministry over here. Like, "Oh, I work at this church "or I have this job over here. "That's some sort of ministry which no, those are bad." But when we realized that when Christ comes into us, when we have the Holy spirit, our life now is a ministry being poured out. We're being poured out into the world. We're lights set up on a hill. And so even in our home birth, we are doing ministry. Our life and the way we present ourselves and the way we react to each other and interact with each other and interact with the midwives and those around us is how the gospel is spread in the world. It's by our words and our actions, it's not by this thing set over here. And that happens once a week or every other week or once a month. It's everything we do. And if you're wondering what that looks like, ask God, say God, "How's my life? How is the things that we're pursuing, our labors, our work, our at home life, our schooling, our jobs, our everything? Our hobbies. How are we representing you everywhere we are? Because we are the body of Christ. Where we go, Christ goes. And so that's what we, our heart was for this labor. And it's what our heart is for this podcast, is what our heart is for our books, for our home, for our neighborhood. And so if you haven't thought that way, our parent hope is that your mind would be changed and that you would start to realize and recognize that every bit of your life is the Lords. And he desires it to be a offering to him. He desired, he calls us to be living sacrifices. And so, that's, what's amazing is we can be at home doing home birth, something that we don't need, didn't plan and say, "Okay, Lord, how are you gonna use this for you? "What do you want from us? "How can we participate in what you're doing "in the lives of those that are going to be here? "And also, what are you gonna do in us?" Cause there's a lot that God did in us, challenging us and changing our minds about things and showing us how to trust him more. So that was a little bit about our home birth story, which we think it's, God's story of course, all of our births. I wouldn't say this birth was any better than any of the other ones. Cause they all were amazing. I love meeting my children, but I did love a lot doing it at home. I really enjoyed it.[Jennifer] I really did too.[Aaron] So husbands out there, it was a pretty awesome experience if your wife is considering it, just know it's pretty awesome. You're home, it's more comfortable you're in your bed. If you have other children, they get to participate and see how it and know what's going on. And it was a really cool thing anyways. Yeah, that was our story, is there any last thing you wanna add?[Jennifer] I feel like, no, I think that what we shared was really cool and I'm, I just want everyone to hear me say that I love you and that I'm really proud of you. You're a really awesome support for me, especially during that time of labor and delivery and managing our other four kids during the whole thing. I just really love doing life with you and I'm excited that the podcast is back up and we're in season four. So I'm excited to be doing this with you.[Aaron] Awesome. Well, that was really nice. Thank you babe. I love you too and ditto and all of that. And bonus baby Edith this year and she is awesome.[Jennifer] She's doing really great.[Aaron] She's starting to smile and she's, I want her to cue a lot more, but she's just barely started.[Jennifer] She likes open's her mouth like she's gonna and then she just sit there and wait, she doesn't do it.[Aaron] She teases us, but she is so sweet. All right. We love you all. My hope that was an encouragement to you and a blessing. We're praying for you. We pray that God just moved mightily in your marriages and uses you for mighty things for his kingdom, wherever you're at. And during the season of chaos and craziness, just remember God's our peace and our hope.[Jennifer] And he is good.[Aaron] And he is good. And if you have been wavering in your faith in the Lord, I pray that you would just ran to him like, like you've never ran to him before and that you would surrender everything. He's the only thing worthy of giving your entire life to, and one day we're gonna be able to spend eternity with him.[Jennifer] One day soon.[Aaron] Birth pains.[Jennifer] Yeah.[Aaron] So-[Jennifer] We'll just pray through those contractions.[Aaron] As usual, Jennifer will you pray's out?[Jennifer] Dear father, you are the giver of life. Thank you for the gift of children. We pray we would have a deep understanding of children and we pray for a strong desire to bless the children in our lives. We pray, we would understand our purpose and role in raising children that know you. May our examples of life and marriage and everything show them the way that honors and glorifies you. Lord we also pray and ask for your peace to be in all of our hearts and in all of our homes, especially when the world seems to be lacking peace. Help us to be confident in trusting you for everything. In Jesus name. Amen.[Aaron] Amen. We love you all. If you haven't left us a review, would you take a moment and do that today? Those reviews help us rank in all the podcast apps and it also lets people know what the podcast is about and what other people think. If you have a lot to review, you are awesome. Thank you so much. Don't forget to get the, to take the challenge. It's parentingprayerchallenge.com. We talked about in the beginning of the show. We love you and we'll see you next week.[Aaron Voiceover] Did you enjoy today's show? if you did, it would mean the world to us if you could leave us a review on iTunes. Also, if you're interested, you can find many more encouraging stories and resources at marriageaftergod.com and let us help you cultivate an extraordinary marriage.

I like to use a car travelling on a road as a metaphor for my career journey. I pick the car, I choose the speed, direction, and route, and I pick where to stop. The road and services along the way are employers, coaches, and experiences. Until my recent conversation with David Nielson, I hadn’t clarified what the fuel was for my vehicle, or more pointedly, my career decisions. I now believe it’s self-awareness. According to David’s conscious success model, self-awareness precedes meaningful choice. What this comes down to is if you want to live an intentional life and achieve success (regardless of how you measure that), start by understanding who you are and knowing what might help or hold you back. That'll make it possible for you to make more informed choices about things like changing course, learning new skills, and improving your relationships. There’s so much more to this idea. David elaborates, and introduces the other aspects of his book The Nine Dimensions of Conscious Success, in this episode of People at Work. If you’re in need of a turbo boost along your career or life journey, consider the potential of greater self-awareness to take you where you want to go. About our guest David, author and executive coach, is a native of Colorado and also has a home in New Mexico. He and his wife, June, share a love of the mountains and outdoor activities. They’ve recently purchased an Airstream camper and are planning adventures with their two boxers, Hondo and Lexi. Connect with David on LinkedIn at linkedin.com/in/davidenielson/ or follow him on Twitter @DNAWorldwideHQ. Resources Free personal assessment quiz at www.davidenielson.com

One of the biggest blocks to lasting intimacy is shame. Shame keeps us from being honest with ourselves, and our partners. And from truly owning what's real for us - what we actually want. In today's episode we're going to cover some of the many ways that shame gets in the way - and we'll also take a stand for what's possible when we allow ourselves to get real - about what's going right and what's going wrong - in our lives. Let's shine a light on the shadow - and free ourselves to be real with each other. And in the process we'll free up all kinds of energy to get closer to what we truly desire. As always, I’m looking forward to your thoughts on this episode and what revelations and questions it creates for you. Please join us in the Relationship Alive Community on Facebook to chat about it! Sponsors: Find a quality therapist, online, to support you and work on the places where you’re stuck. For 10% off your first month, visit Betterhelp.com/ALIVE to fill out the quick questionnaire and get paired with a therapist who’s right for you. Resources: I want to know you better! Take the quick, anonymous, Relationship Alive survey FREE Guide to Neil’s Top 3 Relationship Communication Secrets Guide to Understanding Your Needs (and Your Partner’s Needs) in Relationship (ALSO FREE) Support the podcast (or text “SUPPORT” to 33444) Amazing intro and outro music provided courtesy of The Railsplitters Transcript: Hello, and welcome to another episode of Relationship Alive, this is your host Neil Sattin, and today I wanna get real with you, I wanna get real with you about relationships. It's not that I haven't been real with you, all along. Of course, I have in fact that's been probably one of the most important things to me about this conversation that we're having about relationships is being real and not getting hung up on how things are supposed to be, but dealing with how things really are, and honestly, that's been challenging for me lately, and I've been doing a lot of soul searching. The getting real hasn't been challenging but what's been challenging for me has been connecting in with what motivates me with what drives me to do this to be here with you every single week. And it probably doesn't surprise you to know that that goes back to my own relationship coming apart or transitioning let's say, back in the fall, and the very real need that I've had to do a lot of processing, a lot of grieving, a lot of wondering, a lot of questioning, a lot of raging, a lot of integrating that entire experience to make sense of what it even means. What does it mean when a relationship comes apart, particularly when you're someone like me who is so deep in this conversation about how we do relationships well or better, being focused on growt, h being focused on integrity, being focused on showing up to the best extent possible, and at the same time wrestling with shame - the impact of Shame on our relationships, on my own relationship, on what it's like to come here and talk to you after going through such a big experience that I never expected for sure. I mean so much of Relationship Alive grew out of the journey that I was on, that I've been on. I'm still on it, of course. And that journey had love, it had struggle, it had challenges, it had disharmony, it had coming back together, it had all of that - and coming back apart and it's really gotten me thinking about what is it that we are trying to do? What is this whole relationship thing all about? There are those of us who never get into committed relationships who never find love, and that energy - and then there are those of us who find a person and meet up with them at a young age and stay with them the rest of their lives, and then there's most of us who fall somewhere in the middle on that. I mean, you might be one of those two people that I just described. There's nothing wrong with any of that. And then there's this whole spectrum of what's possible in relationship in the middle. Are we monogamous? Are we polyamorous? Are we casual? Are we serious? Are we sexually-abstinent before marriage, are we sexually-abstinent after marriage? There are all of these variations on what we experience and what I'm trying to do here on Relationship Alive of course, is to bring you the best resources that I can to help you navigate all of that. And mostly that's been focused on this broader concept that I might call writing a wrong... Something has gone wrong, and we wanna fix it. I've got a really deep fix it, streak within me. And that has been, what the podcast has been focused on. We don't know how to communicate. Well, let's fix it. We end up in conflict - let's fix it. One of us slept with someone outside the boundaries of our monogamous commitment. Let's fix it. We don't know what to do about our own struggles with mental health and depression. Let's fix it - like that. That has been what the show has been like, and that's important, those are important things to be talking about. Of course, none of us wants to stay in those sticky icky places where things are super uncomfortable and I sure don't it's not... Not what I aspire to. They're unavoidable, of course and yet there's maybe a bigger topic around their unavoidability that I've managed to avoid for much of these conversations. So today, I wanna tackle that and I wanna give you a sense of where I'm really coming from right now, because this is where I'm going to be coming from now on. Well, as I evolve I can't hold the same perspective that I had a year ago 'cause it doesn't make sense to anymore, so I've been stewing and trying to make sense of everything. And today I'm gonna give you my best shot at making sense of it all, in a way that at least gives you a sense of the direction that will be headed in... So thank you for being here with me today to be part of this important conversation because we as humans are on this journey together, we are evolving what we do relationally with each other. I was speaking with Jeff Brown earlier today, in fact, and he said something that was so hilarious. He's like, Let's... And I'm gonna paraphrase him. But it was something like, let's just get to the point where we can be in a room with each other, without things going horribly wrong - and that is in some ways where we're still at... As people. And now in this moment when I'm recording, we are most of us in some form of sheltering in place or staying at home, and so we're spending a lot of time in the same room, either with ourselves and having to own that conversation, or with our families or significant others, And that stirs up a lot. There's never been a more important time to try and evolve what we're capable of. We have to right now - of necessity. So that we don't tear ourselves or each other apart, there's so much that's possible. And I've witnessed it, I've witnessed it in my own life, I've witnessed it in the life of the clients that I work with or the people who have taken my courses. And I hear from you to... And I have to say those emails are magical, they're like gold for me when I get an email that's just telling me how much of an impact this work is having on your life, it's part of what helps keep me going - has helped keep me going, especially over the past few months, when I've had my own dark nights of the soul, and I've wondered why I'm doing what I'm doing. I'm the kind of person who wonders that frequently. It's important for me to keep my finger on the pulse of what motivates me, what keeps me going and that way I can hopefully avert disaster by diagnosing problems, when they are well in advance of before they hit. And yet sometimes things are unavoidable. So anyway, now I'm rambling a bit, so before I ramble any further or actually before I really dive into the meat of the matter. I wanna just take this moment to thank you if you have been a contributor to relationship alive just by being here to listen, you're a contributor, and I really appreciate that. Just so you know, I'm so thankful that you are here to be part of the conversation with me and this show is an offering for you, to help you have the best possible relationships, and without your support this show couldn't continue. So in this moment, I just wanna thank some of the people who have contributed recently. Sylvia, David, Angie, Drew, Lydia, Anne, Valerie, Keerthi, Angie, and Jules. Thank you all so much for your financial support of Relationship Alive and just as a reminder, every little bit counts. So, if you wanna choose something that feels right for you to help show your support of relationship alive and the work that we're doing, then just visit neilsattin.com/support or text the word support to the number 33444 and follow the instructions. Also, I put together a free guide for you to help you learn how to communicate more effectively, in relationship. And this guide has just three simple tips if you put them into practice, they will transform your communication outcomes. I'm not sure if you heard that. I just got a call through my computer. I'm not sure how that happened. Alright, [TKEDIT] that sounded super official. Then the communication outcomes. In any case to grab the free guide you can visit neilsattin.com/relate or text the word relate to the number 33444 and follow the instructions. Finally, I just wanna remind you that we do have a free group on Facebook - the Relationship Alive Community where you can join in with a safe space to have conversations about relationship stuff, lots of amazing people in that group over 4000 people at this point. And if you have a question that you would like me to answer on the podcast just record yourself, asking the question and send it to me. The email address is questions at Relationship Alive dot com and I will answer your question on a future episode of the show. I had a few good questions come in, lately which has been cool. Alright, so let's get back to the topic at hand, which is What's up with relationships anyway, no one has... No one has an easy time. Or maybe I shouldn't say no one, 'cause then I'm falling into that cognitive distortion place of black and white thinking. There probably are a few people who have supremely easeful relationships or people who are supremely easeful in their solo-ness. But in the middle, there are gonna be moments where things are going well, and then there are gonna be moments when things are a struggle - that is the reality, and what I'm realizing more and more is how much of an obstacle it can be when we feel shame around there being issues like somehow there shouldn't be something going wrong, or there shouldn't be this challenge... Or I shouldn't be bored or I shouldn't care about this pet peeve of mine or right, whatever it is. And There have even been people here on the show, on Relationship Alive who talk about certain practices of mindfulness and acceptance that would have you think that you should just be walking around accepting everything and being totally cool with everything and then life would just be blissful all the time and maybe just... Maybe there are those truly enlightened souls for whom everything is just bliss, but honestly I think the paradox is that those people, it's probably not all bliss because partly, what they're blissing out on is probably their experience of challenge when they get into it. And that represents a response to being challenged. You're a generative response, which would be... Man, this fucking sucks. What am I gonna do about this? I'm gonna learn to love it, even though it's really hard... That's different than things never being hard. It's just learning how to build that kind of resilience into your system, but despite what you see on Facebook and Instagram, or whatever social media thing, you might be on, things are challenging for just about everyone at certain points, maybe even more than half the time, and if not challenging, they're going to be moments where one or both people or several people, if you're in a polyamorous situation, where someone is having questions about whether they really wanna be there, about whether it's really working for them, or having realizations about ways that they've compromised themselves, not intentionally. I think it's rare that someone compromises themselves intentionally like to try to be manipulative or something like that. We are doing our best all the time, to maintain connection with each other, and sometimes our best requires a little bit of contortions as we twist ourselves into a shape that works for the other person. Or if you're not a contortions kind of person, you might choose to avoid the avoid your partner so that you can avoid contorting yourself. But even avoiding, even avoidant people still wanna be in relationship, they still choose relationship over solitude until things escalate - and then sometimes solitude is a welcome respite from the calamity, the emotional calamity, of two people who aren't quite in sync with each other. Whether you're anxious or avoidant or secure I'm speaking about attachment styles. Wherever you fall, there are gonna be times when you just aren't sure or where you have questions or where you're in pain, or where you're hurting and if you're sitting there thinking I shouldn't feel this way, there's something wrong with me for feeling this way or that there's something wrong with my relationship that I feel this way that sense of "there's something wrong. And so, I shouldn't... " That is paralyzing. And I've felt that at moments with the podcast where I - even this episode that I'm recording this has been on my mind for weeks now - and if you're someone who's paying close attention, you may notice I skipped a couple of weeks. And it's because this has been a-brewing and it's actually been a-brewing for me for months now waiting for the right moment to come out. The reality is I think that relationship and our choices around relationship-ing exist on a spectrum and that for the most part we are evolving on that spectrum all the time. And there are gonna be moments where... Where you're at is perfectly right for you and your partner or partners, and those moments of alignment are awesome, thrilling, and we can sometimes create them, sometimes ritual moments like your first date, or celebrating an anniversary or getting married, or you can create moments that have that special juice, the juice that forces everything into crystal clear clarity. It doesn't happen all the time necessarily, for those events that I was just describing, but it's one great way to kind of bring everyone on to the same page. They're amazing moments when they happen. And you might shift if you are focused on your own development and growth, then for one thing, the relationship you're capable of today, is gonna be world different than the relationship you were capable of - well, maybe yesterday, but definitely five years ago, and definitely 10 years ago. What seems like so amusing to me is, I think back - this is just myself, but I see this in other people, as well. I think back to the relationships that I had when I was young, when I fell in love, in elementary school or even in high school, let's go to high school 'cause that's a little less ludicrous, but I remember meeting someone in high school and thinking "this is the person, this could be the person that I'm gonna spend the rest of my life with." I had the whole vision, all worked out. Now this happened several times, which tells you something. In fact, it's happened repeatedly over the course of my life. And what's true is that the person that I met, let's say in that moment in high school, we were probably perfect for each other - in that moment, and we were capable of something particular to that moment to where we were both at in terms of our development. But I can tell you that where I was at when I was 14 or 15 compared to where I'm at now, being 46-30 plus years later... Can't even compare. And yet, somehow back then I thought "You know what, I'm gonna marry this person that's what's gonna happen." I wish there had been a little angel on my shoulder or a parental figure. capable of having this conversation with me of something, like, "You know what, it's not gonna be that and that's totally cool, that's fine. This is what two high schoolers are capable of doing." "Have at it, have fun, enjoy, don't try to make it more than it is, let it grow naturally." Someone could have said that to me, in my teens, in my 20s, in my 30s, and now here I am in my 40s and I'm the one whispering this to you. And to myself. You are capable of what you are capable of today. It's gonna be probably more and better than yesterday and the day before, and the day before. And what you are capable of, in the future, assuming that you keep paying attention and growing, will be even more incredible. Now, will the person that you're with, will they meet you there? It could be a question of whether or not they're capable, whether they are growing the way that you're growing, or it could just be that where they're going is different, and suddenly, requires something different than what you offer, or that you are requiring something different than what they offer. And these are key moments - key moments of questioning, in our relationships, whether we should stay there or not. How amazing would it be to be able to have that conversation free of shame and inhibition? ! ? ! ? There is so much fear and shame that gets in the way of us simply being honest with each other when we diverge. When what you want is different than what I want... There's so much fear - fear in losing the other person, fear in being judged. Sometimes in our lives we've paid a price for being seen, we can't be too big, we can't be too great, we can't be too happy. And so, even if what we wanna share is something amazing, we can have fear around revealing that part of ourselves. And the fear may have nothing to do with our partner. It may be just something that we're carrying around within ourselves, but I can tell you that when you carry around fear, it is really easy to bring about the thing that you're afraid of. If you're afraid of being judged, then man does it take some skill to come to your partner with something revealing without revealing it in a way that almost asks them, begs them... To judge you! It's really hard, it's hard for you, it's hard for your partner, it's fucking hard. Not always, thankfully, but when things are dicey it gets... It gets tricky and hard. And so much of what we've talked about here on the show is being able to recognize moments when they get dicey and being able to show up differently in those moments. That's so key, right? But if you mess up or it doesn't go quite so well, there's nothing wrong with you because that happened, there's nothing wrong with your partner because that happened. It just is where you are right now. And then the question becomes, "What are you gonna do about it, what are you gonna do about that? And can you do it free from the fear and shame that can so often be an obstacle in this moment as I'm talking to you about it?" I'm realizing how even though in so many ways, I feel, okay, actually great about my relationship with Chloe having ended, which isn't to say that I haven't felt pain and grief and despair. I felt the full range of stuff. But in this moment what I am relating to is just how much I've also felt fear, fear about what this means for me because I put so much energy in really trying, trying, in so many ways. A whole podcast was born out of that trying out of that inquiry, out of wanting to know, out of wanting to do better. And yet - still, I got to go on that whole ride and at the end of that ride, was disappointment, was sadness, was disruption, was pain. And so, I'm realizing how challenging it has been for me to face myself in the middle of all that. Part of the making sense of things is not just facing myself, but facing the ways that it's hard for me to face myself facing that challenge. The challenge of looking honestly at everything that unfolded, looking honestly at the choices that I made, looking honestly at the choices that I didn't make, and being able to see myself without judgment. So that's what the shame is all about, right? There's the shame that you feel because you're imagining that other people are thinking something about you, when in reality it's you thinking something about you. I've been there, deeply, and I think that the part of me who was so eager and so convinced that if I just did enough learning if I just grew enough that I could avoid "failure" and I'm putting failure in little quotes 'cause in truth I don't believe in failures in this realm. Anyway, I'm not sure I believe in failure in any realm. I guess if we had an existential conversation about failure, maybe there are some place, or places where failure really makes sense but not in this context, but that eager earnest driven part of me, he's having a hard time with what happened and what he really needs is this healthy dose of self-compassion to remind him that It's okay. What happened is, Okay, what happened maybe couldn't have been avoided, what happened is, maybe what should have happened, maybe it was the natural result of choices that happened earlier that could have been different if he had only known better. That game is only one that's helpful to play, I think, when you're trying to make sense of things. There's no point in being like, "Oh I should have blah blah" 'cause you didn't... Right? But it is helpful to look back and think "Oh, I could have" maybe not, "I should have," but "I could have." What would have happened if I had made that other choice and what was going on with me that I didn't make that choice? I hope this isn't too amorphous for you, like this conversation, I hope you get where I'm coming from. There's deep stuff in us. And the places where shame starts to creep in, or where our expectations of ourself starts to creep in... Those are the places where we're blocked from having the conversation that we need to have. And it could be that the situation that you are in requires some deep honesty with yourself, with your partner - if you have a partner - some deep honesty that's hard to get at if you're afraid or if you're experiencing shame. How are you evolving? how are you growing? how have you changed? Is there a reality that needs to be acknowledged there? There just might be... And if we could be really real with each other about our hopes, our fears, the things we enjoy, our disappointment - if we could do that without taking it personally, and to just see the person that we are, and the person or persons who are there with us with compassion, there's a lot of power in those conversations. I believe deeply in the power of radical compassion - that compassion allows you to value the other person, to value yourself, to value the other people in your life. But you're free to choose all the time, you don't have to choose to stay in a situation where, ultimately, it's just not right for you - but you might make that choice if you're feeling a ton of shame around what it would mean to leave - to make a different choice. I want to change the way that shame paralyzes us. I do not want any of us. You, me, the people who aren't listening to this, I don't want any of us to feel paralyzed by shame. I'm not sure I want us to feel paralyzed, period. That feeling of being held back, of having to cut yourself off from the life force that drives you forward - that sucks! And when you're caught there that is a recipe for, well, if nothing else, dissatisfaction, it could be calamity - could be disaster. Let's not cut ourselves off from the sources of life in our lives. And one of those, I think most profound sources of life is our willingness to be honest with what's real right here and now. In a way that's kind and compassionate... I'm not a fan of brutal honesty but I think we can get honest in ways that are about us. In my Communication course I talk a lot about that. I talk about how do you communicate what's true for you in a way that owns it - that doesn't put the other person on the defensive. How do you talk about what's true for you in a way that actually invites other people to be there with you? Because when you can do that, it creates even more of a spark, particularly if there's a spark, there to be created. [TKEDIT OUT] I do wanna take just a moment to talk about this week's sponsor, of this episode because just like those of you who choose to support the podcast with your donations or sponsors are a key part of what helps keep Relationship Alive going. And this week we have a sponsor who has been with us for quite a while and who are really about helping us get the support that we need. And sometimes when you're feeling these deep levels, of shame or confusion or pain or questions, or even happiness that you don't feel like you can share it's helpful to get support from someone else. So if you're looking for some extra support around the things that are getting in the way of your happiness, or achieving your goals dealing with the whatever's current for you in your life, the one really great way that you can do that from the comfort of your own home which is especially important right now, or you can do it from your office, wherever you are. Is this service called better help, better help will assess your needs and match you with your own licensed professional therapist with whom you can chat via text any time, and you can schedule weekly video or phone sessions, all without having to go anywhere. It's more affordable than traditional offline counseling, and they do provide financial aid. If you qualify, they also offer a broad range of expertise so that you can find the person who's most suited to helping you with your own unique situation, so whether it's shame, depression, stress, anxiety, your relationship, family conflicts whatever's up for you, try out better help to help you move past the places where you're stuck, so to start living a happier life today, you can try better help and get an extra 10% off your first month for being a relationship alive listener, just visit better help dot com alive join over 800-000 people who are taking charge of their mental health, with better help. Again, that's better help help dot com alive and thank you so much better help for your support of healthy relationships, healthy people, and the relationship alive podcast. So, where do we go from here, where do we go from here? I want this show to ALSO not be held back by shame. Fear. I wanna talk about the things that are really going on for us the things that we have concerns about - the secret joys that we have that we don't think we can share - and maybe the secret sorrows that we have or questions - I wanna shine a light on that so that you can feel free to experience it and to share it with other people. There are so many things that have impacted us along the way. Things that are simple that should be easy to talk about or accepted. Here's a perfect example, take masturbation. Now, I'm not sure what the statistics are on masturbation. And maybe you don't masturbate, but I think most people on some level, do - and I think we've also reached a day and age when most of us accept - at least intellectually - that masturbation is okay. It's okay to do that in some way. It doesn't mean you're a bad person if you're masturbating - it doesn't mean there's something wrong with you. It is actually really healthy to desire pleasure and to realize like, "Oh if I wanna feel pleasure I can give that to me - I can be in charge of that. There's nothing wrong with it." And yet, I realize that even for myself talking to people about masturbation evokes deep, deep shame and fear - or at least it did. It did when I first started talking to people about it. This wasn't that long ago, like REALLY talking to people. Not talking about... "What do you think about masturbation?" talking about "Do you masturbate?" "I do. Tell me about when you masturbate. Tell me about where you masturbate. Tell me about the conflicts that masturbation creates in your life." "Tell me about your relationship with masturbation." Now I bring this up because this is an incredibly private conversation for most people. Why is it private? Could it be because we're embarrassed or we feel some sort of shame about the fact that we might do that? Yeah, yeah, it's powerful stuff. So I'm glad I broached the topic here with you. I do masturbate. I'm just gonna let you know, that's part of my life. It's not like hourly or anything like that, but it happens and sometimes I'm just in my body and feeling the pleasure in the sensation wherever it is in me, and I'm really grounded and rooted in me, and sometimes, I'm exploring in my imagination connection with another person, could be a real person could be an imagined person. I actually get a lot of energy from it to tell you the truth, a lot of energy for the rest of my life. Now, on the show, I've talked a lot about sexual practices that don't involve having peak orgasms. And so while we're on the topic of masturbation I'll just let you know that I don't often have a peak climax while I'm masturbating, I don't. But that doesn't mean that I don't enjoy the process - and I just choose the right time to stop and move on to the next thing while I'm all energized, and fired up and no in case you were wondering, I didn't do that before I started recording today. But maybe when I do the show that's completely about masturbation, maybe that's what I'll do - is I'll just do a little warm up before I get on the mic. That'll be interesting. If I have a guest, maybe I'll encourage them to do it as well is so we can all be on the same page anyway. I didn't mean to go completely off topic, on to the topic of masturbation. I offered it, just as an example of a place where many of us harbor a lot of shame and I wanna shine a light on all those places through this show. So this might be an opportunity for you if there's something that you, in particular, feel shame about and you felt comfortable recording yourself asking a question about it, send that to me and if you don't feel comfortable recording yourself than at least email it to me. And you can email questions at Relationship Alive dot com, and that will get to me because these things are important. So yeah, if there's something going on for you, I wanna know, and we're gonna shine a light not on you, I'm not gonna put the spotlight on you but we're gonna shine a light on the thing because guaranteed, you are probably not experiencing something that no one else is experiencing or that no one else has experienced. A friend of mine on Facebook the other day, and I'm trying not to be on Facebook all that much these days, 'cause it's a bit of a shit show, but a friend of mine on Facebook said "post something down below in the comments that you're sure no other of my friends has ever done that you've experienced." And so I was thinking about that and I was like, "What would I post? And the reality is that almost everything I came up with, I was pretty sure that none of their friends had experienced it, but that it's likely that someone out somewhere had experienced it. The point being that you are not alone and if nothing else, I'm here with you. But our unique existence on this planet, isn't so unique that we don't... That things don't happen that we share in common with other people, so even if you don't masturbate, I know there's thousands and thousands of people masturbating. In fact, there are probably thousands of people masturbating right now as we are having this conversation, that's probably happening. I don't know where they are. That would be interesting, but I know that they're out there guaranteed. And so, I thank you to all of you out there who are masturbating right now, thank you for owning your pleasure and hopefully you're finding a way to do it where it feels healthy and fulfilling and not something that you're just hiding about. So let's let this be... Let's... Let relationship alive, be about what's true about relationships. And again, that's been the journey that I've been on this whole time, but just like I was saying, it's a journey. We're evolving and I'm realizing some things that are true that might have even been true all along, but I wasn't ready to realize them. But now, I'm ready, I'm inviting it, and I invite you to invite it to so we can be on this journey together. I have a feeling that it's gonna be worth it. Partly because of how freeing it will be, and also partly because we are gonna change the world, you and I and our friends and our lovers, and our children, we are gonna change the world - and it may not look perfect tomorrow, it may never looks perfect, but just like our own growth, it will be better tomorrow than it is today, and it will get better and better and better. I know that for sure, I know that to be true, and that's my wish for you. So along those lines, I have some special episodes coming up. I had a recent conversation with David Burns, the author of Feeling Good. His new book, Feeling Great is not out yet - I'm really looking forward to that. He's one of the world's foremost cognitive behavioral therapists who has evolved beyond cognitive behavioral therapy with a new approach that very much incorporates cognitive behavioral therapy. In fact, what I really like about David Burns, is that he is not afraid to draw from whatever tradition he finds is helpful, and works, and so I had a really awesome conversation with him that I'm looking forward to sharing with you. And the conversation actually led to two sessions with him, that he did with me - one was dealing with overwhelm and all the negative thoughts that were happening within me and turning those around. And then another session about procrastination. I'm sure you never have to deal with procrastination, right? So there's gonna be a special series of episodes. It's a lot - there's probably in total, about three hours or so maybe three and a half hours worth of stuff there, so I'm not gonna put it all out at once, but we're gonna kick that off probably next week or maybe the week after. And I thought it would be really valuable for you to hear a master working with me, so you can hear a little bit of my reality - the negative thoughts I struggle with, and you get to hear what it's like to actually work with them and come out on the other side. And there's some pretty cool ways that David approaches that - and you'll hear how challenging it was for me to take them on because they were so radically different from how I would typically handle let's say a negative thought. And that's why maybe one of those negative thoughts would persist. So I want you to hear that I think it'll be instructive for you to hear one of the world's masters working. I've done that a few times on the show. I had a really deep session with Ken page in one of our conversations on deeper dating - and with Dick Schwartz talking about internal family systems where he did a session with me. Yeah, so it's a little vulnerable, but I'm looking for to you hearing it and it's all in the interest of being real. So let's just be real with each other, okay? We don't have to pretend to be perfect, and therefore, we can accept that we are imperfect, people, and hopefully we can accept that the people around us are imperfect, and we can just be on this journey together, in ways that feed us and when it stops feeding us, let's be honest about that, too, and let's feel as free as we can to make choices that aren't about shame, but that are about you and the people who are important to you, being your best self. And sometimes that involves work, you have to do on your own, sometimes it involves work you do together sometimes it involves being together sometimes it involves going your separate ways and that's just what fucking is. You heard it here first, or if you've already heard that before, you heard it here again, Alright, peace out. I'm really psyched to be on this journey with you, and to see where it takes us. As I mentioned David burns' coming up, we also have a guest who's a friend of mine, who happens to be a behavioral scientist talking about dating, that's coming up in the next few weeks on Relationship Alive and hopefully we will also be featuring some of your questions too. In the meantime I'm sending you so much love, and encouragement and good health, and we're in this together. Thank you for being here with me.

What scars do you have? Some people see a scar as an imperfection on your skin, but there could be an amazing story behind that. Trophies come in a variety of forms. And they can be anything from medals and status to scars on your body. So, what trophies do you have that you have a story around? ----- Automated Transcript Below Dean Soto 0:00:00 Hey, this is Dean Soto, founder of FreedomInFiveMinutes.com and ProSulum.com P R O S U L U M .com and we're here again with another Freedom In Five Minutes podcast episode. Today's topic is this: Trophies Come in Many Forms When You Work Hard for Them. That and more coming up.   Dean Soto 0:00:35 Good morning. Daylight Savings Time. At least as of recording. So this might actually be a little while because I pretty much record every day —+ just about every day and my guys are amazing and they do a lot of actual content around these podcasts. Often, they are delayed quite a bit so if you're wondering, “Why the heck is he talking about daylight savings and it's closer to Easter.” Don't worry about it. Just go with it.   Dean Soto 0:01:06 It's more about the story anyway, right? It's more about the story. All right. So, it is a beautiful morning today. It is still having all these amazing yellow wildflowers and everything is blooming. We have our lupines. If you’ve ever seen lupines, they’re like lavender — I don't even know if it might even be the same thing as lavender. I'm not sure. But it's just a beautiful purple flower all over the place and I see the new lupine bushes like that have been planted that are kind of wild and all over the place popping up and everything absolutely amazing — even got a small little manzanita doing its thing that'll have some berries later on yeah it's just absolutely amazing so so yeah   Dean Soto 0:02:00 Oh before I get into this why don't you go to Google. Type in Freedom In Five Minutes podcast and subscribe via Apple iTunes. Won't you go do that? Do it. Do it. You can subscribe to iHeartRadio. You can subscribe to Spotify. If you go to Spotify and you type in Freedom In Five Minutes, you'll find the Freedom In Five Minutes podcast. It'll be up there, alright. So, it's not the five minutes to freedom album or whatever yeah.   Dean Soto 0:02:36 I actually was like oh man I'm not gonna actually name this podcast freedom — I can't name it five minutes of freedom because somebody else already made an album. It keeps on popping up and everything. But it's Freedom In Five Minutes. Complete opposite. Five Minutes comes later. I was recently on a podcast where the podcaster kept saying five minutes to freedom and I'm like...god alright   Dean Soto 0:03:10 So. Jiu-Jitsu. Let's talk about this a little bit. I started Jiu-Jitsu about a year ago. I've talked about this in another episode. I started in February of 2019. The whole idea was I needed a 90-day target. I was part of the Wake Up Warrior community. We were in the Kings’ 90-Day Challenge. It's the way that they do things in the Wake Up Warrior. Every 90 days you create a target for your body, for your spirituality, for your business, as well as your family. Something that you're gonna do with your family and something that I still do today.   Dean Soto 0:04:08 I do it off and on. I need to be much much better about it but something that I still do to this very day and during that time I knew that you're not supposed to create targets that are like, “I want to get to a hundred and eighty pounds.” because weight is not really something that you can truly be accountable.   Dean Soto 0:04:36 If you sign up for an Ironman or for a Jiu-Jitsu tournament or something where you've paid money, you've gone into it. you have to actually do it. It becomes much much harder to say, “Yeah I'm good. I don't need to do it.”   Dean Soto 0:04:50 Especially when it's something that you really truly want to do. So that was my body goal for that time and it was interesting because I had always wanted to do Jiu-Jitsu. But there were two things stopping me. One I wasn’t sure about rolling with the opposite sex which I think I talked about in previous episodes. I always just felt uncomfortable. I don't know, it was just something that was kind of odd to me. I definitely got over that. It's cool because my Warrior Brothers were really helping especially with Jiu-Jitsu. it's a great equalizer of martial arts. You're helping them if they were ever in a really bad situation. To be able to at least have some sort of self-defense.   Dean Soto 0:05:49 So, that was cool. The other thing was I just actually didn't believe that I would be that good at it — that I would be able to even compete. I was relatively out of shape. I just was not in the greatest shape at that time. I was about 215 pounds going on 220. It didn't seem like it was gonna be in the cards. The cool thing was —  the really interesting thing was that I did it anyway. I did my first tournament about two months later.   Dean Soto 0:06:33 I called the gym — I was looking at all these different gyms and it was kind of a good thing because there were all these gyms that were only open in the evenings. I got into Google. Being an entrepreneur, I can go anytime. I don't want to go in the evenings. I want to be able to go whenever I want. So I go on Google and I see one.   Dean Soto 0:06:58 Jim says that they open at 8 o'clock in the morning well they do open at 8 o'clock in the morning but I'm guessing Google got it wrong they only opened on 8 o'clock in the mornings on Saturday so anyway I call this guy I think they had a ClickFunnels little funnel I put in my name and everything like that and then   Dean Soto 0:07:22 Rudy calls me back. It's Fresno Ultimate Martial Arts. Rudy calls me back and I'm like, “Yeah. You know I really want to do a Jiu-Jitsu tournament.”    Dean Soto 0:07:35 It was part of my business things. In about two months. And he's like, “Oh, Whoa. Yeah. I think we'd get you ready by then. That'll be really tough but you're gonna have to really work at it.”   Dean Soto 0:07:48 I was like yeah I have to. I'll just keep calling around to anybody who will take me and help me to do that.   Dean Soto 0:08:07 He's like, “Yeah. No problem. We'll try and make it happen.”   Dean Soto 0:08:11 So I went over there, signed up, and then realized that it was Tuesdays and Thursdays in the evening. And I'm like, “What?!”   Dean Soto 0:08:20 And then on Saturdays, you can roll at around 7:30 in the morning but it ended up being a really really cool thing because the community and the instructor were just so welcoming and so awesome.   Dean Soto 0:08:36 Everyone's so positive and in fact, it was neat because I went to my first Jiu-Jitsu tournament in April or May of 2019 and ended up getting third place in No-Gi and got a little trophy — that was my first trophy in Jiu-Jitsu.   Dean Soto 0:09:01 I was like wow that's really really cool and for a while, nobody was doing much in the way of tournaments and the next tournament that came up with it was a few months later after that and because of that, the whole tournament thing of me doing that, we ended up having five or six people do a tournament. Out of those five or six people, I want to say five of them ended up placing and actually getting medals which was awesome. The pictures that came from it and everything was just really really cool.   Dean Soto 0:09:42 To see that it went from nobody competing to one person competing to five people competing and now in April I'll be doing another tournament and we'll have multiple people doing the tournament over here in central California. I might even do one down in Southern California a few weeks after that.   Dean Soto 0:10:13 That was trophy number one. Trophy number two was not exactly a trophy I expected and wanted. Trophy number two is on my right ear. If you were me, at least. But if you were looking at me it would be my left ear. It is becoming a cauliflower ear.    Dean Soto 0:10:41 I went for a full year doing jiu-jitsu and nothing like that happened at all. Nothing like that happened at all. All of a sudden, I actually don't even know when it happened or how it happened or whatever. But my ear started to swell up and it's been this way for about two weeks now.   Dean Soto 0:11:06 I get a lot of people saying, “Hey are you gonna drain it? Are you gonna do this, you're gonna do that?”   Dean Soto 0:11:10 It's annoying and it's kind of slowed my roll which I think I needed to do anyway. I think I was doing a little bit too much.    Dean Soto 0:11:24 There is someone shooting right now. We’re living in the country so people shoot quite often.   Dean Soto 0:11:39 All that being said — it sounded like an AR15. Anyway, all that being said I have people who say “don't worry about it” as people say “drain it”    Dean Soto 0:11:57 People are like, “Oh my gosh that looks so bad.”   Dean Soto 0:11:59 All in all, I'm like, “I like it.” It's definitely not aesthetically pleasing but it is a trophy. It took me a year to get that thing. It's something that wouldn't have been there had it not been for me doing Jiu-Jitsu and you might be thinking, “Well that's really dumb. Why would you want to have that as a trophy or whatever.”    Dean Soto 0:12:41 Well, I don't know why quite either. But I have this thought that this type of stuff doesn't happen quite often. As I said, it took a year to get this. It took a lot of hard work. It took a tournament and it took a lot of learning. It took a lot of different things. It took a lot of things that people could say, “Oh well, you should drain it because you're gonna be stuck with it for life or whatever.”   Dean Soto 0:13:26 it took a lot of hard work. It took a whole bunch of different things. And to me, if it stays, it stays. If it goes, it goes. I have a scar! I have scars all over my body from different things throughout my life and each scar has a story and those are physical scars and even emotional scars. Things that I do without even knowing that also have a whole reason. And a whole story behind them.   Dean Soto 0:14:00.929,0:14:07.619 I don't want to let those go because those give me power and this gives me power as well. This gives me a powerful story that I want to be able to share with other people. I want my kids to look at my ear and say, “Hey, Dad! How did you get that ear?” and be able to tell them the whole story of how hard I worked to get this thing.   Dean Soto 0:14:34 Trophies come in a variety. They come in a variety of different types. What's the whole purpose of this? Why is this so important? Well, it's important because you have things in your life, you have things in your business, you have things in your family. You have scars. You have things that you work for. Trophies that you worked for, have a huge story around them. It's conventional wisdom — it's the conventional type of people who say “Whitewash it over.” “Don't forget about it.” Yet you get rid of that scar because it looks ugly.   Dean Soto 0:15:32 A scar is a blemish on your body. A scar is a blemish on your soul. That scar is a blemish on your character as scores of lemon. But there are things in that scar that are priceless. There are things in that trophy that are priceless that nobody except you and God knows.   Dean Soto 0:15:52 Nobody except you and God knows. There's a thing in the Bible where it says — I believe it's in Revelation — that God will give you a stone and on that stone is written something that only you and God know. Out of all the billions of people and quadrillions of angels and whatever else is out there. Only you and God know. And guess what? That's the same thing as the trophies that you have won. The trophies that you have earned whether it's a scar. Whether it's a literal trophy. Whether it is a congratulation. Whether it's your marriage and your wife giving you a love note or your husband giving you a love note or whatever it is that is a trophy of hard work that only you know the value of truly know the value of.   Dean Soto 0:17:15 You can communicate that to the other person but only you know the true value of that trophy. So what scars do you have? What trophies do you have that you have a story around? I challenge you this week to at least document or share a story just like this with somebody.    Dean Soto 0:17:44 I never used to be good at stories and I'm still getting better at stories. In fact, it was only about two years ago that I learned a really good structure for telling stories. That's really helped me to be able to do podcasts like this. To be able to share in a way that's cohesive. That structure goes: What, Why, Lesson, & Apply. I learned this from Garrett J White from Wake Up Warrior.   Dean Soto 0:18:18 What, Why, Lesson, & Apply. So, what do you want to talk about? So, like today, it was on trophies and the story behind my cauliflower ear and how that's a trophy.   Dean Soto 0:18:31 Why is that important? Why is that important to me? Why is it important to you? What are the lesson that you're going to get from it and the lesson that this story is trying to explain? And then, how do you apply it in your life? Hence, the challenge to actually document or share that trophy this week. All right. What, Why, Lesson, & Apply. It's very powerful.   Dean Soto 0:19:02 Okay. So what trophy are you going to share? What scars are you gonna share that only you know and only you have learned? Because these scars that I have are what brought Pro Sulum to where it is right now P R O S U L U M .com   Dean Soto 0:19:23 It's why I can work five minutes and have a process be created and boom it's done. It's why I'm able to have a wonderful staff that has an amazing culture who write this content when you look at the blog who are just absolutely amazing people. It came from a lot of this work.   Dean Soto 0:19:56 What, Why, Lesson, Apply. What, Why, Lesson, Apply. Go and do that. What is your scar? What's your trophy? Go check out ProSulum.com P R O S U L U M .com as well as Freedom In Five Minutes. It got me all sentimental...   Dean Soto 0:20:16 I will see you in the next Freedom In Five Minutes podcast episode

Party In Your Plants: 100+ Plant Based Recipes and Problem-Solving Strategies to Help You Eat Healthier (Without Hating Your Life).By Talia Pollock Intro: Welcome to the number one cookbook podcast Cookery by the Book with Suzy Chase. She's just a home cook in New York city, sitting at her dining room table talking to cookbook authors.Talia Pollock: I'm Talia Pollock. My new book is Party in Your Plants.Suzy Chase: For more Cookery by the Book, you can follow me on Instagram. If you enjoy this podcast, please be sure to share it with a friend. I'm always looking for new people to enjoy Cookery by the Book. Now for my quarantine question round, where are you living?Talia Pollock: I'm living in Pound Ridge, New York.Suzy Chase: Oh, Pound Ridge is pretty.Talia Pollock: It is. We've got lots of trees.Suzy Chase: Oh my gosh. You said the woods, so I thought you were way upstate. What restaurant are you dreaming of going to after the quarantine?Talia Pollock: Okay, well we just found out that the reason we moved to Pound Ridge, which was because of the Inn at Pound Ridge, which is a Jean-Georges restaurant, which, if you don't know, is very similar to ABC Kitchen, which is in the city, which also we love ABCV. We just found out that the Inn at Pound Ridge is open for take out starting tomorrow. We're so excited. Then once we get our fix on there, we cannot wait to get back to ABCV, our favorite restaurant in the whole world.Suzy Chase: What dish is getting you through this?Talia Pollock: I don't, nothing's getting me through this right now. I'll tell you, I have funfetti cupcakes, less unhealthy funfetti cupcakes with crap free vanilla frosting in my fridge right now that I made to celebrate my book launch virtual party the other night. Those are getting me through.Suzy Chase: On with the show. I think we all want to eat healthier without hating our life. You want to take the hell out of healthy eating. Talk about how the coconut creamy smoothie you ate in college gave you a plant eating epiphany.Talia Pollock: Ah, yes. Well, for over eight years prior to that smoothie, I struggled so much with my health. I had really bad digestive issues, which our digestive system's the epicenter of our body. They call it our second brain, our gut. When your digestive system is horrible and you're feeling sick all the time, it really affects everything. That digestive stuff led to immune issues. It led to lack of energy and then depression and lack of confidence. I was just a mess walking around and nowhere even close to my best self, not even in the ballpark. I was struggling so much. I knew there must be a better way to feel in the world. This couldn't be for me. I was very relentless in finding solutions. I tried multiple gastroenterologists and acupuncturists, naturopathic, hypnotherapist, everyone under the sun. All they could say is I had IBS.Talia Pollock: I was an aspiring comedian at the time. I did my internship my junior year of college in LA where I was working for Adam Sandler's Happy Madison Production Company. In my off time, I was exploring all that LA had to offer in terms of wellness. I discovered spinning for the first time, colonics, whoa, juices, all of this stuff I never heard of before. I grew up on the East coast. My mom always says trends start out West, so I guess that was going on. It was 2008, so it was really early for all this stuff.Talia Pollock: One day I'm going. I'm at this woo-woo healer who's touching parts of my body and telling me all these supplements I need to buy for all this money to heal my parasites. I don't know. I was desperate. I told that person as I was paying, I'm hungry. She said, "Oh, go across the street. That place has amazing coconut smoothie." I go across the street to this woo-woo place with incense wafting into the street. I asked for the coconut smoothie. They hand it to me. It's this white, frothy, creamy thing. I say, "Oh, I'm so sorry. I don't do dairy." Because at the time I knew at least that upset my stomach. They say, "Sweetie, this is vegan." I didn't know what vegan meant. I didn't want to cause a scene. So I took the smoothie, sat outside on a bench, drank the smoothie. For the first time in over eight years, I consumed something that didn't make me feel sick. I felt strong. I felt vibrant. I felt healthy. I felt energized. I was like, "What is this vegan thing?" I proceeded to spend the rest of my time in LA just sitting in Barnes and Noble, because this was before blogs and Instagram and everything, just learning everything I could about eating plants. It changed my whole life.Suzy Chase: And naturally that place was called Planet Raw, aren't they all?Talia Pollock: Yes, right? Yes. It was Planet Raw. It's no longer with us, but it was heaven.Suzy Chase: Fast forward to the day when you realized you'd forgotten and ignored your own voice.Talia Pollock: Yeah, so what happened was that I fell in love with the plants. They changed my health. It was amazing. Really. I became a new, I couldn't believe how good I felt, but it was very hard to be a normal member of society, "normal." I was in college, so I had my senior year to finish up. After that internship in LA, I went back to school. Now I was this person soaking almonds to turn into all almond milk in my on campus apartment while my friends are off doing keg stands. I was dehydrating kale. This was so long ago you couldn't even buy almond milk in stores. To get coconut water, I would crack open coconuts with a machete and scrape out the meat and turn it into ice cream. This was my college activities. It was very hard to be a contributing member of society when I was just this health nut hermit.Talia Pollock: I graduated college more unhappy than ever before. I felt like I had to choose between my happiness and my social life and my health. I chose health. But then I was so sad and so alone and so depressed, and so I had to figure out how to combine the two worlds. That's what I've done. That's what I do with Party in my Plants, but it really stemmed out of this really sad place of being stuck, having to choose one or the other.Suzy Chase: I've been a follower of Rachel Hollis for a long, long time. She says, "The quality of your habits is the quality of your life." What are a few pointers for folks who want to go full throttle like you did?Talia Pollock: One, I love Rachel Hollis, awesome. Love her. Two, some habits, my overarching philosophy is I just want to help people eat more plants in a given day, meal, snack, week, month, year. Then they eat crap. Crap being chemical, refined, artificial and processed food. That's the principle. That's what I want to help people do. If you adopt that, then you're taking the all or nothing mentality out of the picture, which is what causes so much stress for people. It takes perfectionism out of the picture and it really, as I say, it takes the hell out of healthy eating.Suzy Chase: Do we really need a blender?Talia Pollock: Ha. You're referring to the intro from my book, "What you need more than a fancy blender." That's me saying what you need is this book. That'll serve you more than a fancy blender. The truth is that there's not a shortage of recipes out there, right? I mean, you know as well as anyone, better than anyone that there is no shortage of recipes on the planet for people to learn and make. What is missing for a lot of people struggling to eat healthier is the spark, is the desire, is the excitement, that, "Oh my God, if I change things I put in my body, I can show up in the world so much better than I ever thought possible." My book and my work aims to be that spark for people that gets them to want to eat the plants. Then I happen to have awesome recipes, but it's really this catalyst for igniting your desire to do it. That's what you need more than a frickin' blender.Suzy Chase: I love your recipe on page 105 called the High Def TV Dinner. Can you describe this?Talia Pollock: Yeah. Well, I'll flip to it. 105, no, it's awesome. I mean, all the recipes are divided by real life situations. Like I said, my story stems from having to compromise my real life to accommodate my healthy stuff. I don't want anyone to have to do that. This is like a TV dinner where you basically, it's like a sheet pan meal. You just eat off like those old fashioned TV dinners where you see people sitting on those folding tables and eating their airplane food in front of the TV. This is that, because everything you're making for dinner involves just one pan. You can do chickpeas and any roasted vegetables that you, vegetables you have to roast. Then I suggest you pair it with quinoa or cauliflower rice or sweet potato or something like that. It's like a souped up HD TV dinner.Suzy Chase: I do love that you use humor to inspire people to eat more plants. I feel like vegetarians and vegans are so serious.Talia Pollock: Yeah.Suzy Chase: Why?Talia Pollock: Yep, I don't ...Suzy Chase: I don't get it.Talia Pollock: It's so unnecessary. I mean, all that does is make it less appealing for people, right? I mean, this is not supposed to be a miserable thing. We eat a lot. It would be cool if the process of eating was enjoyable and not stressful and not black or white and not intimidating. I don't know why that's the route that so many people choose, but I have not chosen that I am here to make it fun, so you actually do it.Suzy Chase: Speaking of fun, can you talk about apple cider vinegar?Talia Pollock: Yeah.Suzy Chase: ACV.Talia Pollock: Nice transition.Suzy Chase: Right? I just like smooth right on into that one. Is it the miracle food?Talia Pollock: I mean, what's more fun than apple cider vinegar, right?Suzy Chase: Right?Talia Pollock: I mean, I don't know. What are you going to say about miracle food? It's wonderful, I'll tell you that much. I've been consuming two tablespoons of apple cider vinegar in my morning cocktail, if you will, which is just water, two tablespoons of apple cider vinegar. Then I do some greens powders, a powder, and that's like a green juice cocktail. It's amazing for digestion, for detoxing, for your skin, for energy. It's just, it's really, really lovely for your body. I use it in a lot of recipes. It's great in baking to help things rise.Suzy Chase: I'm obsessed with your YouTube channel. I have to say my favorite episode is, drum roll ...Talia Pollock: What is it?Suzy Chase: The best Mexican restaurant tips where you ...Talia Pollock: Oh my gosh.Suzy Chase: ... show up in the R Kelly Fiesta video, which is hilarious.Talia Pollock: Oh my god.Suzy Chase: The best takeaway from this video is to always order soft tortillas in lieu of tortilla chips. Can you talk about that and tell us about your YouTube channel?Talia Pollock: Oh my God, you're so awesome. Thank you for watching my videos. That is very funny. Yeah, that's fun. Yeah, I think that is the pro-iest pro tip of all pro tips. I mean, when you go, when we can eat at restaurants again, to Mexican restaurants, they always bring you a basket of these fried tortilla chips. You can ask, "Oh, excuse me, can I just please have some soft tortillas?" Then you can just use those as your scooper or your dipper instead of eating a plethora, the fried stuff as you're starting your dinner. You can also ask for vegetables as well.Suzy Chase: Do they look at you funny if you ask for vegetables?Talia Pollock: You know what? I don't care.Suzy Chase: Yeah.Talia Pollock: That's what this is about. This is about, owning it. What would Rachel Hollis say, right? Wash your face. Order the chips. I mean, not the chips, the tortillas. That's what this, I'm here to help people do. A lot of the barrier between not eating healthfully and eating healthily is that inner confidence. It's that boldness. It's that I'm just going to do it and not care what other people think because I'm that committed to my wellbeing. That's what you need more than a blender, going back to what we said before. It's that unwavering authenticity to just do the damn thing and not worry about what other people look like when you're doing it.Suzy Chase: I think we're all learning that now in the quarantine. I have a mini trampoline and I'm on my roof and I'm sure hundreds of people can see me bouncing on my roof, but I don't care.Talia Pollock: That's amazing.Suzy Chase: It's in your day.Talia Pollock: You brought it to your roof. That's awesome. That's so cool. Yeah, YOLO. That's what we're living in. Okay. If you're bouncing on a trampoline in your roof in public, then you can order soft corn tortillas.Suzy Chase: I can, and I can order vegetables too.Talia Pollock: Yeah, I think you can.Suzy Chase: Yeah, bring it. Sea salt or pink salt?Talia Pollock: I love pink salt. It's not just cause I'm girly. It's just I've always done pink salt, but you can do sea salt. I just like the Himalayan pink salt.Suzy Chase: Some of the names of the recipes crack me up like Pad Thai in No Time and Cheez-Isn'ts.Talia Pollock: Yeah, they're like Cheez-Its, but isn'ts.Suzy Chase: Sweet Ass Sriracha Tofu. How long did it take you to put this book together?Talia Pollock: I mean it was a lot. It was, I think a year, a full year before edits. Then there were edits, but it was a year. It was the best. I had such a blast.Suzy Chase: Now to my segment called my favorite cookbook. What is your all time favorite cookbook and why?Talia Pollock: Oh, okay. Clean Food by Terry Walters was the first ... Do you know that one?Suzy Chase: No.Talia Pollock: Oh, it's, she's the OG. She's the OG. She's clean food before clean food was ever a term. I just so happened to have grown up as her neighbor. She was making all this stuff with teff flour and rice flour and all this gluten-free, whole food stuff in my backyard. She really inspired my journey, so Clean Food by Terry Walters.Suzy Chase: Where can we find you on the web, social media and your podcast?Talia Pollock: My podcast is the Party in my Plant's podcast. I am Party in my Plants across all social media and internet things.Suzy Chase: Well, thanks Talia for coming on Cookery by the Book podcast.Talia Pollock: Thank you so much for having me.Outro: Subscribe over on CookerybytheBook.com. Thanks for listening to the number one cookbook podcast, Cookery by the Book.

Who is 1998's Babe: Pig in the City for? Is it for kids? Stoners? Four grown adults attempting to navigate a national pandemic? This is the question Travis McElroy (My Brother, My Brother and Me, Adventure Zone, Run: A Doctor Who Fancast) poses to the BC crew this week. We defend and analyze another George Miller death city, robot chimp babies, and why Siskel went out on a high note. That'll do. This episode is sponsored by: Purple (https://purple.com/?utm_medium=au&utm_source=vr&utm_content=pod&utm_campaign=44732&utm_term=pt&c3ch=Podcast&c3nid=CHECK) (Code: CHECK) Noom (https://www.noom.com/programs/health-weight/exsf01/?upv=3&sp=adresults&utm_source=blankcheck&utm_medium=podcast&utm_content=check&type=bakedin&group=audio&step=pros&lang=en&isvanity=y#/) (Code: CHECK) Hims (https://www.forhims.com/blank) (Code: BLANK)

Staying healthy during quarantine? How about mixing ketodiet with valproate? That'll definitely be trending... Join us for

Founder of Be Pure Ben Warren talks to Lisa about what you can do to boost your immune system, give your body optimal nutrition and attack systemic inflammation, a major cause of many chronic degenerative disease.   Lisa and Ben discuss everything from your hormones and how they work to our gut bacteria and nurturing your microbiome to getting the key nutrients you need to stay healthy.   We would like to thank our sponsors for this show:   For more information on Lisa Tamati's programs, books and documentaries please visit www.lisatamati.com   For Lisa's online run training coaching go to https://www.lisatamati.com/page/runni... Join hundreds of athletes from all over the world and all levels smashing their running goals while staying healthy in mind and body.   Lisa's Epigenetics Testing Program https://www.lisatamati.com/page/epige... measurement and lifestyle stress data, that can all be captured from the comfort of your own home   For Lisa's Mental Toughness online course visit: https://www.lisatamati.com/page/minds...   Lisa's third book has just been released. It's titled "Relentless - How A Mother And Daughter Defied The Odds" Visit: https://relentlessbook.lisatamati.com/ for more Information   ABOUT THE BOOK: When extreme endurance athlete, Lisa Tamati, was confronted with the hardest challenge of her life, she fought with everything she had. Her beloved mother, Isobel, had suffered a huge aneurysm and stroke and was left with massive brain damage; she was like a baby in a woman's body. The prognosis was dire. There was very little hope that she would ever have any quality of life again. But Lisa is a fighter and stubborn. She absolutely refused to accept the words of the medical fraternity and instead decided that she was going to get her mother back or die trying. This book tells of the horrors, despair, hope, love, and incredible experiences and insights of that journey. It shares the difficulties of going against a medical system that has major problems and limitations. Amongst the darkest times were moments of great laughter and joy. Relentless will not only take the reader on a journey from despair to hope and joy, but it also provides information on the treatments used, expert advice and key principles to overcoming obstacles and winning in all of life's challenges. It will inspire and guide anyone who wants to achieve their goals in life, overcome massive obstacles or limiting beliefs. It's for those who are facing terrible odds, for those who can't see light at the end of the tunnel. It's about courage, self-belief, and mental toughness. And it's also about vulnerability... it's real, raw, and genuine. This is not just a story about the love and dedication between a mother and a daughter. It is about beating the odds, never giving up hope, doing whatever it takes, and what it means to go 'all in'. Isobel's miraculous recovery is a true tale of what can be accomplished when love is the motivating factor and when being relentless is the only option.   Here's What NY Times Best Selling author and Nobel Prize Winner Author says of The Book: "There is nothing more powerful than overcoming physical illness when doctors don't have answers and the odds are stacked against you. This is a fiercely inspiring journey of a mother and daughter that never give up. It's a powerful example for all of us." —Dr. Bill Andrews, Nobel Prize Winner, author of Curing Aging and Telomere Lengthening.   "A hero is someone that refuses to let anything stand in her way, and Lisa Tamati is such an individual. Faced with the insurmountable challenge of bringing her ailing mother back to health, Lisa harnessed a deeper strength to overcome impossible odds. Her story is gritty, genuine and raw, but ultimately uplifting and endearing. If you want to harness the power of hope and conviction to overcome the obstacles in your life, Lisa's inspiring story will show you the path." —Dean Karnazes, New York Times best selling author and Extreme Endurance Athlete.   Transcript of the Podcast: Speaker 1: (00:01) Welcome to pushing the limits, the show that helps you reach your full potential with your host, Lisa Tamati, brought to you by lisatamati.com Speaker 2: (00:12) Welcome back to pushing the limits this week. I have a special interview with Ben Warren of Be Pure. Now Ben is a celebrity nutritionist, very well known in New Zealand and an absolute authority when it comes to health and wellbeing and I had a really great interview with him so I'm going to pass over to him in a moment. But before I do, just a reminder, if you want to join me on my book launch tour and holding online book launches every Thursday night at 6:00pm if you go to booktour.lisatamati.com you can register on there and join me live meet my amazing mum. Here are background stories behind the book, relentless and if you want to grab the book really is to straight away. You don't want to wait for the book launch, then head on over to lisatamati.com you can grab it as an audio book, as a paperback, Amazon Kindle, every which way known to man. It's available. So head on over to lisatamati.com Right now over to Ben Warren of BPO. Well, hi, everybody Lisa Tamati here. Today I am sitting with Ben Warren, who is our famous national treasure in regards to nutrition and healthy lifestyles. Welcome. It's great to hear. That's very humbling. You're a legend in this country already. So for those who don't know, BenI know when you, you know, you would have missed that. But Ben as the founder and owner of Be Pure, which is a, what is it? It's actually been explained what Be Pure is because it's not just some, Speaker 3: (01:52) What is it? No. So true. Yeah, it is. We're, we're, we're basically an education company and so essentially we're an education company that educates people well around diet and lifestyle factors to improve people's quality of lives. People's help people on their health journeys. That looks in a variety of different ways. We have, we do have nutritional supplements, we have educational resources to help people eat better, to live healthier. We have a laboratory that does very advanced hormone testing. So there's a number of why is that we come in to try and ah, yeah, help people on their health journey really. Because, you know, we're all on this journey trying to be, be healthiness and enjoy life as much as we can. And yeah, the, the company is really a platform to help people do that more. Speaker 2: (02:44) Yeah, absolutely. And I'm fascinated to watch your journey, you know, like as a, as a company Be Pure as is being a role model for our company and learning from you guys and what you're doing and how you're doing it. It's been quite fascinating. And you know, you've been kind enough to share tips over the years. And one of the big tips that I have to tell people and also saying executive vain. He was the first one that put me onto hyperbaric oxygen therapy, which of course was absolutely key in my mom's rehabilitation. And his, his, you know, I ended up being then have now solve the clinic, but it's, it's European available might be more, well now in the, in the, you know, area for Brighton rehab and for many other areas as well. So that was a huge step that been just, you know, off the cuff, taught me one day when we were talking about mum and has her situations, I think that was really key. You're welcome, you're welcome. And it's so, so otherwise they say you're so inspiring in whatever you're doing and, and you know, where'd your mom and tell her story and her recovery. That's just kind of what we expect from you now. Speaker 2: (03:57) You know, the sorts of research and things that goes into any health journey. And it's never just a, you know, like I think one of the providing mentality unfortunately with a lot of people is that we go to the doctor, we get a single pill and we take the pill and we're all good. And you and I know that, okay, health is really a motive faceted thing that we need to be always tweaking and learning and developing in being open minded as to how to improve. And we, our knowledge is of course in, you're at the cutting edge of, of research and so on. And always learning the next thing, and this is, this is what leads to being along team health I think is having that attitude, that open-minded attitude to, you know, looking at what the latest research is saying and building the blocks that are required from the exercise to the sleep, to the meditation, to the supplements, to the photos. You know, all of these aspects play a huge role, don't they? Speaker 2: (04:56) Absolutely. Yeah. I couldn't agree more or less, or if it is, you know, for all of us, we were on this journey, on the shot's journey and, and life throws, throws things at you, you know, you suppose curve balls at you and then you have to be able to pivot and respond to those. You know, just as we're recording this right now, we'll see during the COBIT 19, knocked down in New Zealand. And so a guy in a whole different set of challenges around health. Right now I'm from social isolation through to boredom, eating, emotional eating you know, something, you know, [inaudible] but having to deal with a lot of different things. And so, you know, life changes and but, but it's certainly the more you can do those fundamentals really well, like you mentioned those lifestyle factors, we know that you, you know, you're going to weather it better. Speaker 2: (05:44) Exactly. Exactly. Instead today they are wanting to talk with you some of the key learnings that you have around, you know, because we are in this coronavirus, time building immunity and voting our bodies up to be strong so that they can cope with, with virus and things that come at us. In delving deeper into, you know, some of the areas that you've been working in and also some of the nutrients that we really need to think about being edited into our, into our diet, whether that's through supplements or whether that's through food. So what would be your top tips for boosting immunity? Okay. Speaker 3: (06:25) Yeah, I think, you know, when we start looking at diet and lifestyle factors for immunity, Mmm. There's probably sort of three or four key areas, but we can improve our foods. What are we eating, our nutrient levels and then lifestyle factors and, and, and I mean the full one, which kind of comes in under, under the food's weightings, also our gut. Yeah. So let, let's, let's start at the started the, the food aspect first. And so ideally we want to be eating, you know, this foods we want to be adding [inaudible] there are going to be benefiting to try immune systems. So these are, these are going to be a whole foods nutrient dense foods, so lots of vegetables, high quality fats and proteins. And so there's a number of factors, you know, the fats and proteins are the [inaudible] tools to build immune molecules. Speaker 3: (07:14) [Inaudible] [inaudible], Bye diet or you know, light. So by seeding a lot of plants, vegetables, that's going to have a ride the best environment for the, for the beneficial bacteria and the microbiome, which is [inaudible] the first line of defense really for an immune system. And then you know, from from from a whole food aspect. There's also things we want to be then eliminating. So you ideally trying to minimize sugar as much as possible because sugar feeds the unfriendly bacteria, which then impacts our immune system. And then really trying to minimize also, Mmm, sure. I, I'm not a big fan of gluten containing foods for a lot of people. They really struggle with glutinous protein, your immune system's responding to gluten as a protein. And so minimizing gluten as a protein. So the first step would be that the whole food step. Mmm. Yeah. And then so I go on to talk about nutrients. Speaker 2: (08:07) Yeah. Well, so this was just a sick that, you know, when you say like gluten's not good. I mean, I mean, I'm of the opinion that gluten is probably bad for all of us, which is a really hard pill to swallow because I like Brandon, I'll be honest, I really struggled with the braid one. It is, it isn't good for any of us as a, it's not just people who are good you know gluten intolerance or celiac disease people. But it, it, what does it actually do? Why is it such a insidious, isn't it? Is that one of the LinkedIn's, you know, is it one of the, in the LinkedIn family? Speaker 3: (08:42) Yeah. Well, there's, yeah, there's a number of factors to it and you actually, rightly so, the research does show that the, the gluten has been shown to be inflammatory for everybody. So in this study they took people who are celiacs, who we know have a strong immune response to gluten and non-celiac, and they found that it didn't matter whether they were celiac or not, whenever they gluten increased inflammation. So we know that it is inflammatory for everybody according to the research. And so why is it so inflammatory? Well, I guess there's a number of reasons, but let me see if I can sort of put this together succinctly. On a basic level, the red wording now is nothing like the bread that your grandmother was eating. So you know, if we go back, okay. Over the last 50 years, the hybridization of grains has, has, has meant that the gluten content has increased. Speaker 3: (09:30) It's meant the unbeknowing to the, you know, actually Norman BOLO, who, who, who did a lot of the hybridization got a Nobel prize for it. [inaudible] Did concentrate the lectin levels. So they are higher, much higher levels of blood jeans in modern wheat varieties. Now, lectins are a molecule plants make to stop insects from eating them. And so it looks like in increasing the lectin levels in weight, modern weight they, they, they basically made it so the insects can't hate it, but it looks like humans can't tolerate it either now. And so definitely the lectin component of it is [inaudible] [inaudible]. Also a contributing factor together with in the modern world we seem to have, Mmm. A lot of leaky gut issues and this is where the junctures in your gap start getting loose and the food particles we're eating start getting into the immune, into the bloodstream where we get an elevated immune response. And so we don't know, maybe it's the sugar, maybe it's the lifestyle, maybe it's nutrient proficiency. So we don't know exactly what's driving this perfect storm of gut leakiness. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, that seems to be coupled with this increased intolerance, the bread and gluten. Speaker 2: (10:35) Right. And that's a really good one. Let's, let's talk a little bit about what happens when you get the leaky gut syndrome. So the particles are passing through, partly on digested in, in toxins and chemicals and things that are you. You're inadvertently ingesting when you, when you have food [inaudible] unchecked into the blood system and dissolving into the blood. So that's causing systemic inflammation and toxicity in the NSLS. Is that, is it half works? Speaker 3: (11:04) [Inaudible] Yeah, exactly. So 70 to 80% of our immune system is centered around the are associated with [inaudible] lymphoid tissue, which is in our gut. And the reason being that the easiest way to get a pathogen into your body is to eat it. And so this is the new primary interface between the outside world and now our inside world and our bodies. And so when these junctures start getting loose, we start, like you say, start getting from particles. Mmm. And toxins from the foods we're eating. [inaudible] Big and molecules start getting into the bloodstream that shouldn't be there. And now our immune system then recognize these things, proteins. And, and when we look at you know, I'm interested in, it's constantly looking at the foods we're eating, particularly the proteins going, is this protein food or is this protein a virus or backup Syria because viruses and bacteria that just pertains to, so if basically looks at the proteins and if you got a big in there that shouldn't be there, the immune system goes tags it as, as non-self tags as an invader. And we build specific and new molecules to that. Speaker 2: (12:02) And then Speaker 3: (12:03) Our immune system talks systemically throughout their whole body. And so if you start getting an elevated immune system in your gut so for example, the macrophages which are a big immune molecule, they will talk to the other macrophages in your body and say, Hey, we're getting attacked, Speaker 2: (12:17) Regulate, start looking for anything that looks like. Speaker 3: (12:20) And so we start thinking, getting increased inflammation throughout our whole body, our immune system more than even start taking proteins that are, Speaker 2: (12:29) Oh, Speaker 3: (12:30) Not us. And we start attacking proteins that are us. And I mean that, that can be in the joints as in the case of rheumatoid arthritis. Often it can be in the thyroid, in the case of autoimmune Arthur autoimmune, Hashimoto's and these kinds of conditions. So it then has a, yeah. A systemic effect for our whole body. Speaker 2: (12:49) Wow. So, so a lot of the auto immune diseases which are rifle in their world, you know, like Hashimoto's and thyroid, a classic examples of the body just attacking itself and killing your own tyroid at the end of the day because it's [inaudible]. And even with this coronavirus from what I understand, it's interleukin six is what they've identified as being the, they problematic. Is it cytokine that is Mmm. Yeah. Closing this huge immune response in this or the body overreacts in seats. So many songs just to fight it that it actually starts shooting everything for, you know, as an analogy it starts killing off the good end. The bed. Yeah. Over-reactive immune system. So when we, when we're talking about inflammation, cause most people still are saying inflammation is like when I cut my leg, it goes a bit red and sore and that's inflammation or they get a sore knee when they've tweaked it or something and that, but this is, this is information that is right, the body because it's in the blood system and it's popping out in different areas. Speaker 2: (13:51) So one of the like I've got a brother who's got some very bad Becker shoes and I'm, you know, very much convinced in the work that I've been doing with him that it's a systemic inflammation problem as much as it is a disc problem. And that's a bit of a leap [inaudible] people to make because they think, no, I've got a sore back, I've got a disc problem or I've got a new problem. And they don't actually equate it to actually know the, the, the body's immune system is in overdrive, the inflammation is going, you know, and we need to, we need to address that as well as perhaps looking at if there's a physical injury. But it's actually, you know, looking at that whole, the whole body looking at the gut health. Okay. Speaker 3: (14:36) Absolutely. It's, it's, it's the whole environment. The immune system is talking to the immune system throughout the whole body and, and so the more that we can kind of create environment that that is calming down the immune system, the more that we can have the a wonderful point you raised up around the, you know, the coronavirus instances, the cytokine storm with where the immune system gets out of control and that's actually then becomes dangerous in of itself is we want to well controlled immune system. And this is actually where nutrients like vitamin D comes in [inaudible] controls and modulates your immune response. And so if if we looked at your immune system like a we want your immune system to be like a really good heading dog. And so we want you like, so if you've got a dog in with the sheet you don't want Labradors in the shade because it's just going to cause a whole bunch of collateral damage. Speaker 3: (15:25) That collateral damage being inflammation. What we want is a really good heading. Dog knows exactly when to go in and exactly when to stay sitting here and not just the shape. And so Benjamin Day is like the shepherd with the whistle, the controls, the immune system. It controls when the dog goes in and out. And so having adequate vitamin D, and this is one of the reasons why adequate vitamin D is so important for our immune system is cause they actually modulate some controls. This immune response as do Omega three fatty acids, Omega three fatty acids as found in fish oils and only fish salmon. They, they, they make specific molecules that can help turn off that interleukin six inflammatory marker. And so they modulate and control the immune response Speaker 2: (16:06) That is, that is quite fascinating. Vitamin D is not just, they, they're actually pulling out a whole mine of [inaudible] now that it has, because there's so many influences throughout the body and vitamin D also in relation to calcium. So I'm taking it with keto and vitamin a is a good combination help you. Speaker 3: (16:27) Absolutely. Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. They used the nutrients. They, Oh, they, Oh they work together. And depending on which biochemical pathway, they have different cofactors for of the bone. A bit of a D controls you uptake of calcium and vitamin K two controls the deposition of calcium as where you're putting the calcium in your body. Cause we want to put the calcium in the bones. We don't want to put it in the soft tissue like Andres because that's associated with increased Heartland speeds. And so borons also required with bone factor. And so yeah, when you start looking at M D for immunity, it's coupled then with C, it's a couple of grips saying it's a couple who are a bit of an eye. So you did it. It's like a it's like a symphony and orchestra and different parts of the orchestra need to be playing at different times for, to create this harmony of, of human health. Speaker 2: (17:15) So that's a beautiful way of putting it. I'm in the middle at the moment and you know, I'm certainly no expert in this area, but I've been studying functional genomics inside of looking at different DNA specific DNA genes and the different pathways at nighttime. And yeah, it's been fascinating. Absolutely fascinating. And one of the interesting ones was the vitamin D. Jane the name escapes me right now. Yeah. Can't remember what now, which switch. Yeah. Something like that. And what was interesting was that if you have the poorer conversion of vitamin D so that you, if you, for example, come from it's necessities that are closer to the equation or where there was a lot of sunshine in your ancestry, then you have often lower level of serum vitamin D in the body. And it can't be carried in by the transporter either very well. Speaker 2: (18:15) And so you need to have extra vitamin D, especially if, say somebody who's come from one of the hotter climbs and sisterly, and then you're living in a colder climate with this list, you know, sunlight and so on. So that was a really interesting Simon vitamin say was all side is there's a Jane that regulates the amount of vitamin C that's going around in the body. In some people who have the wrong variation, can not be able to process or not carry the vitamin C as efficiently as others. So again, I need an increased amount of vitamin Sansar. It's this really fascinating area science when you start looking at, Oh, so that's why somebody might react better to, to supplementation then, then somebody over here. And, and going into all of those, those, the specific Jane's, it's just been absolutely mind blowing. Speaker 2: (19:08) And I, I wish I had it off the top of my, my, my, well I hated the moment when I die, but it's just like I'll be studying under dr Mansell Mohammed who I hit on the show rates and a couple of times in the last couple of weeks. And it's, I'm really, really important to know, like to understand your Jane's, to get Jane profiling done. Cause then you can actually gauge which way your, you know, your hormones are going. I mean, I know that you do hormone testing when we're getting a bit off topic, but so you're looking at the pathways and so on that, you know, with the if you've got, so what are you home on T stone actually been, can you explain them a little bit? Speaker 3: (19:48) Yeah. So that, yeah, that's a great point. And so I completely agree with all that Lisa. Like, like the the future of Oh, nutrition is in personalized nutrition. And so I've always been a big believer that it's about finding what's right for you and, and absolutely on a, on a nutrient level. And just, just on that, on Benjamin Day, just to, so the highlight to your listeners, you know, Speaker 2: (20:10) Mmm. Speaker 3: (20:10) 84% of new Zealanders in one study, 84% of new Zealanders are tested low in vitamin D and that's 18 animals. So, you know, we, we've got massive Bitterman deficiencies and, you know, obviously we're using sunscreen, we're not getting out of the sun as much, et cetera. So yeah, there's, there's a lot of, lot of different issues there. So when you start looking at the hormone testing. So let's jump back to the hormones. Yeah. So we were using urine metabolites. So with you in metabolites, you really pretty much get to see the whole hormone cascade. Whereas if you go get a blood testing the hormones you just go into yeah. Get one form of estrogen usually eat too. [inaudible] We'll do progesterone, but they're not gonna Speaker 3: (20:47) Necessarily see your types of gesture. And how is that guiding and, and also the timing of your progesterone is very important cause your progesterone is only going to really peak around day 19 to 22 of your cycles. So you need me to be getting the timing of that blood test. Exactly right. So what, without testing, we've got and incredibly advanced in the bar too. Actually one of the most advanced machinery in the world, liquid chromatography, mass spectrometry, where we are taking the urine and looking at it, how your body's breaking down these hormones so that we can then see how many hormones you have. And we can see the whole humor, new cascades. So you can not only see whether people, you know, the estrogen, but, but how is your body breaking down that estrogen? Because some forms of best, Jerome as it breaks down, are actually fairly toxic. One form is [inaudible]. It's actually the most researched molecule for breast cancer. Speaker 2: (21:36) Yes. Speaker 3: (21:37) So you, you're starting to see the whole cascade of what's going on. And, and yeah, obviously that's really useful for women who you know, having menstrual pain, menstrual difficulties, fertility issues, PMs, symptomology, endometriosis, polycystic ovarian syndrome, really useful for them to see what's actually going on and to help them and to help normalize their cycle. Speaker 2: (21:59) Yeah, it's really fascinating because this is an area that I've focused in on too with the Jane tasting. So looking at the, you know, the 1781 and the SRD five 82 and the sip 1981. And whether it's going into the two hydroxy or the four hydroxy pathways or you got it. Yeah. It's, yeah, we need to know this before we put a woman on the pill or what we put before we put a woman on board. I didn't go home therapy. These things need to be checked because we're, you know, we're, what, what might be perfectly fine for one woman can be a complete disaster and lead to cancer for another person. And so having this sort of testing available and understanding what pathway your body is, you know, because the four hydroxy estrogen, what you talked about there as being very inflammatory and the Quinones and the [inaudible] that are produced from the Fremont doxy and then if you have a slow comped Jane, so you can't get rid of it very well. Speaker 2: (22:56) We CLO. Yeah. It's a very complex matter that needs to be and we need to dissect this before we go and give somebody you know, certainly the contraceptive pill or the hormone replacement therapy. We need to understand those factors before we go and do that. I think it's quite shocking to me that is a, is a young woman is most young woman, you know I was put on the pill and all of the the downstream problems that that has caused for me in my body a thing quite horrific, you know, whereas for another person, that might've been fine. So I th that's an area that I think, you know, having the case done and understanding your personal pathway and your body's at right now and how old you are and with your producing is stroller or still extra dial or you know, all these things have a risk factor for the cancer situation. Speaker 2: (23:55) So it's really exciting that you've got that testing here now and there's, it's available for people to be able to understand their own gene pathways. There was a taste recently done the, the name of the scientist, it Skypes me, but they absolutely, it was out of Harvard. Absolutely. Conclusively have now discovered that the pill causes leaky gut syndrome, that, that it increases the permeability of the gut lining. [inaudible] [inaudible] With absolute certainty. So this is something that we need to be aware of because as we've spoke about before, the inflammation that that's going to be causing in a young woman's body. Is it scary, you know, and if you're on the pill for 20 years or 30 years, like I was you can imagine the downstream problems of that. Have you heard about that study at all? Speaker 3: (24:51) Ah, I haven't been, it doesn't surprise me that, you know, a number of medications have been shown to increase leaky gut and gut permeability. We know that, you know, a lot of research around the nutrient deficiencies, the being on the concept of pill drive. And so, you know, ideally it should be given with a high quality motivated man prescribed with a high quality motivated to mitigate the, the, a lot of those side effects. So. Mmm. Yeah. [inaudible] it's a different, a difficult question. I said in a day you work with be empowered around controlling whether they have a pregnancy or not, but you know, at the moment the side effects of, okay, or the pill for some women, Speaker 2: (25:31) Quite severe. And, I mean, this is not to say that the pill is not correct in the, in certain circumstances, but it's informed consent that we want, we want, we want to know what it is, the possibilities instead of just blindly going in and, and having and being on this without a breath he is and not knowing that there are consequences to, because you're basically shutting down a whole system in the body and that is going to have less of consequences, you know? Mmm. But we've gotten way off topic cause we were on absolutely. It's over licensed. But I find that I love to sit down and talk hours with you. That'll be sort of things. So what are some of the other things that we can do to build our immunity? So we looked at vitamin D, we've looked at our gut health. So probiotics, probiotics are very important as prebiotics. What is the difference between, Speaker 3: (26:26) Yeah, so probiotics are the beneficial bacteria or the bacteria that have been shown to have a, a known benefit to human health. Okay. So there's obviously a lot of, a lot of now Australians and species that have been researched for all sorts of different benefits of human health, whether that's reducing inflammation, increasing mental, improving digestive health. And so yeah, probiotics are the actual bacteria. And then prebiotics are the foods that feed the back Syria. And so prebiotics, you know, really think [inaudible] think vegetables here. But but you know, the, the, the real standout performer is going to be garlic, onion lakes, the beans and legumes. And so they've got a lot of very complex pumped sugars. [inaudible] The way, don't break down, but the bacteria alive. And so we want to be feeding, you know, it's not only about having the right species and strains and diversity within the microbiome and the gut, but it's also about feeding them, feeding them. So like try. Speaker 2: (27:23) Wow. So when you're taking a probiotic, you're trying to put good, big bacteria into your gut and when you're eating the prebiotic, so, you know, prebiotic, fiber and vegetables and you're also supplements now available. Speaker 3: (27:36) No Speaker 2: (27:37) That's actually giving them the right food to be able to, to thrive. And, and, and get stronger. Mmm. [inaudible] Speaker 3: (27:44) Absolutely. Yeah. So it's a combination of those two. Speaker 2: (27:48) Yeah. You've got a probiotic. Speaker 3: (27:50) Yeah, we have. Yeah. Yeah. We've got a probiotic gut renew. It's an incredible probiotics, 18 strains, you know, researched and then they strange for, for human health 30 billion viable bacteria, very, very strong. It's an enteric coated actual, so that delivers the, delivers the bacteria, so through to the large intestine where we want it. And so we, yeah, we get a lot of very, very good results with that. Speaker 2: (28:17) That sounds excellent. Okay. So that's probiotics, vitamin D, what else is on the list for immune building supplements and foods? Speaker 3: (28:27) Yeah, let's talk about vitamin C. Obviously a bit of is required to build immune molecules. We don't make vitamin C anymore as, as a mammo. And it's interesting when you look at the genes around that most likely we don't make it cause we didn't need to make it cause we were eating so many fresh vegetables and fruits that we were getting adequate vitamin C that our body was like, you know what, there's a pathway here. We don't use it anymore because we're getting so much. So that's most likely turned off over the millennia. And so, but in the modern world, we're not getting enough vitamin C, again, a study out of a target of new Zealanders showed that a lot of new Zealanders were deficient in vitamin C, which is surprising because you know, you sort of think, are we not eating fruits and vegetables? Speaker 3: (29:11) Yes, but we are, but we're not eating necessarily fresh fruits and vegetables. So Mmm. Benjamin CB grades quite quickly. So the older the fruit based with the less Bitterman Cedar isn't it? And so, you know, a lot of the fruits and vegetables you're eating, unless you're growing them yourself aren't necessarily as fresh as I could be. And therefore I see content is actually as high as it could be either. So supplementing with vitamin C, very, very important on a daily level for sure. The skin, the hair for sleep. Mmm. The mood. Very, very important. Specifically under, under times of immune stress, we need more vitamin C because vitamin C is required to build immune molecules. And so so we have a product called [inaudible] [inaudible], which is very strong. I'm sorry, Scott. 1500 milligrams for half a teaspoon. And then, and then another aspect around vitamin C is the bioflavonoids. I recycle the electron vitamin C. Do you really want a two to one ratio of bioflavonoids and you've determined C because then you're getting kind of like double the vitamin C once it gets in your body. The activity levels. Speaker 2: (30:11) Mmm. Speaker 3: (30:11) And so permanency requirements. Yeah, Speaker 2: (30:16) It's a, it's a bioflavonoids net. Like a transporter of the vitamin C in the body or how does that work? Speaker 3: (30:23) Yeah, it's actually an electron donor. So it's like a, so you have a, a cascade of like, so they give their electrons or being an antioxidant means it can give, it's electron away, a spare electron. And so what it does is when vitamin C gives its electron to a for sell to stop it from being oxidized that vitamin C has lost its electron and it can't give it to anyone else, but the bioflavonoid can give its electron to the vitamin C and kind of recycle it. And so the, and so there's a whole, so when you ate a [inaudible], when you eat a deep fried, when you eat deep fried tired of shit for example vitamin a will give its electron to stabilize that fatty molecule. So then, and it's a bit of money is a very nice antioxidant for fats and in Bermondsey will give its an electron to beta mundane and bioflavonoids. We'll give it to the next one. So a bit of SI. And then your body makes a molecule who glutathione, which is a base antioxidant to give its electron to the bioflavonoids. So you have this kind of cascade of recycling of protection throughout your whole body. And, and so and so, you know, this is just one, one reason why a bit of, and CS, okay. Kind of off subject, but it's part of it. Part of this cascade. Speaker 2: (31:29) Yeah. No, very fascinating. This whole block chemical processes fascinate me as like how one donates to the other and gives it to the other elements changed into that. And that's all part of this thing that we, this is why we slow, intricate out, outweigh. We are such in one way was super robust. On the other hand, we're extremely complicated and you get one little thing roles and you start to get problems down the track. Vitamin C and collagen production or [inaudible]. So collagen is needs vitamin C two to be sense of size. Is that the right way of putting it? Speaker 3: (32:03) Yes. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. So sort of like, so a lot of these Bitcoins and minerals are the enzyme catalysts. So yeah. So they're actually for enzymes to work, which are like the catalyst to make things happen. They need these mineral mineral cofactors for, for the way I look at it is like, you know, you got a factory [inaudible] know if we looked at the immune system, you've got to factor in your body that builds immune molecule. So at the end of the factory line, yeah. I mean, molecules can go out there and fight. Yeah. You have the raw materials coming into the factory. You've had some proteins and then you have all the stages production, which involved different Benjamins and minerals. And so if you're deficient in one of those vitamins and minerals, it holds up the whole production line so that you can no longer produce as many immune molecules. Speaker 3: (32:50) And so, and so these are these enzyme catalyst cofactors. And so, yeah, Bitterman sees, you know, many, many functions throughout our body as in as easy as is and think it's gonna of a days. And so, Mmm. Yeah. The ability to turnover [inaudible] and build more collagen is, is that right? Limited [inaudible] deficiency. Wow. And the college, it is so important for our skin, obviously I hear and I always, but also for our gut lining, building the gut lining, our joints, we've got a lot of pain. Having good levels of vitamin sane can help with the pain levels. It, it's, it's, it's, yeah. Okay. So, so really is it really and, and you know, yeah. [inaudible] Hmm. Carry on baby. [inaudible] No, that's, I'm, I'm good. Speaker 2: (33:45) That's a lemon recording guys. As we've got to, we're going to like a, one second delay. And it's causing been an honor to talk over each other. We're not normally so rode down with me. Speaker 3: (33:56) Okay. So now, Speaker 2: (33:58) Well we've gone through, okay. Vitamin, vitamin C, probiotics, prebiotics as zinc. You've mentioned. What does zinc do in the body? Speaker 3: (34:09) Yes. Okay. Zane controls over 200 enzymes in your body. Really important for wound healing. Really important for the gut integrity. Very, very important for energy production. Very important for the immune system to build immune molecules. Really important for melatonin. Sleepy time. Oh my own production. Serotonin feel good. Yeah, the happy neurotransmitter. And so you know, zinc is, zinc is really high. Zinc foods can be [inaudible] oysters. W yeah. [inaudible]. Hi, zinc. [inaudible] Egg yolk. Milk. Okay. Pumpkin seeds. Seeds. We generally, when you look at zinc, you think we're getting enough, but many, many, many people are low in zinc. And, and so I'm a [inaudible] big fan of [inaudible] getting the same adequacy. Speaker 2: (34:54) Yeah. I think most new Zealanders I'm from. I remember being in one of your talks years ago and you're saying Speaker 3: (35:00) You gave us all some zinc and whether we tasted it or not and yeah. [inaudible] Then it was a huge problem that we have a deficit in, in, in zinc, in New Zealand especially. Along with selenium. I think the other major one let's just talk on mega threes. Like a mega threes are crucially important. I know for brain health it's been something that's been important for mum and her recovery is Omega threes. What else do I make us priests do in the money? Yeah, like I mentioned earlier, well threes, I liked the, the substrate [inaudible] you're really important to the brain. So the brain is 80% fat. Particularly these foams of Omega three are really important. Excuse me just a moment. I'm just going to talk to my daughter. I understand. A cool mate. Okay. She was just cooling the dog. So we're obviously in lockdown. Speaker 3: (35:58) So this is make a three [inaudible]. Absolutely. No, it's pretty special. And so the make it raise help build specific, the immune system helps build resolving molecules to help turn off your immune response. Okay. So this is, you know, really one of the important things is we want our immune system to be really tightly controlled and have having a bigger three is this is why Omega threes are so beneficial for heart disease is because make the Omega threes turn off inflammation and essentially heart disease is an inflammatory disease. So, you know, 19, late 1990 stupid group of German scientists showed its implemation that causes heart disease. And so yeah, this is what you're saying. If we can have adequate mega threes to ensure that we have the ability turn off the immune response when our body [inaudible] safe to do that. Yeah, very, very important for that. Speaker 3: (36:53) Very, very important. Okay, so Amiga three, lower inflammation all throughout the body. So with heart disease, you know, again, I'm going back to the genes. There's a couple of genes that are responsible for how much cholesterol was laid down, how much cholesterol was picked up again, and recycle and police row. [inaudible] Absolutely no itself, not the big bad Wolf and the roam, like we used to think cholesterol was bad, but cholesterol was actually the is bomb for an inflammatory response, but it's the inflammation that's causing us to put the, the cholesterol down that we actually want to actually want to get to. And this is where they are making threes. I'm going to help calm that hole. All the blood missiles in the, yeah. [inaudible] Integrity, Palacio cells can be very, very beneficial. Okay. So then you've got a really great Omega three. Speaker 3: (37:51) Now some of the ones on the market and not so great. Can you explain why people should not go cheap when it comes to fish oil? Okay. Yeah, there's a number of factors really. I guess the first factor is around oxidization. You want to make sure that it's not damaged or oxidized. And so, you know, a study came out in New Zealand showing that many of the, pretty sure it was word damaged, oxidized. We actually do third party testing to ensure the hours. There's an oxidized and then we a bit of an [inaudible] to protect it. We also have a, a special capsule that protects it. Mmm. The new one really wasn't the active ingredients of Omega threes. The keys is, you know, a lot of fish oils, they might sell 2000 milligrams official, but they actually only have 120, 190 milligrams of, Oh actually we do aliens, DHI and epi. Speaker 3: (38:40) And so whereas ours has 1400 milligrams and so they actually get a clinical dose that's effective. To give you an example, you know, make threes are a very [inaudible]. Mmm. Yeah. And the research has been shown to be very beneficial treatment for the depression, but you need to be taking between 1,003 thousand milligrams of EPA [inaudible] for it to work. And so many fishers just don't have [inaudible] simply enough. And then also the concern with officials is, you know, heavy metal toxicity in the fish is also around heavy metals. So it's very important that the the, the, the officials, Mmm. You know, coming from kind of pure sources and then also have been molecularly distilled to eliminate those heads to eliminate those heavy metals. Speaker 2: (39:22) Wow. And that's why, yeah, that's why it's very, very important that you get the right ones when it comes to Omega threes and you know, not, not the $7 ones perhaps. Okay. Well thanks for your time today. It's been really insightful. I, I just, we don't want to wrap this all up now in, in a couple of scenes that says, so why is the immune system like we stress and the immune system is very another key factor, isn't it? Why is that important that we lower acid? Speaker 3: (39:56) Yeah. So there's a very complex relationship between stresses and our immune system. But the, essentially what happens is when we experience chronic stress, our immune system becomes kind of fatigued and suppressed. And so and so it's really, you know, we've got to manage our stress levels so that we don't run into this immune fatigue. And, and you start heading towards a more of a compromise, the immune picture. And so this is where you're managing stress. It's, it's so vitally important. And you know, exercise can be a good stress release. And your meditation, very good. Adequate sleep, really important. And so you're all of these things. Yes. To try and manage these festivals as much as possible. Speaker 2: (40:39) [Inaudible] Sums it up really nicely. We've got to get our stress levels down in order to give your body some energy to actually do the, do the good work and having strong immunity. So I've been I just want you to tell people where they can find you, where they can find out more about your work, your blogs, your education, your compliments, of course. Speaker 3: (41:04) Yeah. Best place. We've got incredible blog and information at www dot [inaudible] dot co.nz, the P U R E. Dot co. Dot N Zed Oh, on social media channels, BPO, Ben Warren on Instagram and Facebook. And so, yeah, if you have any questions, please look us up. Feel free to direct message us and they, and we look forward. So I'm helping you on your health journey is going forward. And just want to thank you, Lisa, have me on your show. You're, you're such a huge to so many of us. I was just in our morning meeting with our marketing team this morning and I said, I'm, I'm, I'm on your show. And, and yeah, one of the girls was like, Oh my gosh. So she was pretty excited to have me talking to you. And so yeah, you've been [inaudible] huge inspiration for her and you know, for all of us about how to how to, how to live life. Oh, thanks so much. Everything you do. Speaker 2: (41:59) Oh, really appreciate that Ben. Cause it is, I love, I love [inaudible] just hanging out with people that are like-minded mentality and who are doing good in the world. And, and I do encourage everybody out there listening to go and check out being on Instagram, on, on Facebook and in follow the BPO blog. Because I am, I get regularly convene and I'm always learning. It's always something new and it's always something that's really key for our health and performance, which is what the show was all about, elevating human performance. Ben, thank you very much for your time today. I really appreciate it, Speaker 3: (42:34) Go on, hanging out. Thank you, Lisa, and we'll say, well, I will play safe everyone. Speaker 1: (42:42) That's it this week for pushing the limits. Be sure to write, review, and share with your friends and head over and visit Lisa and her team at lisatamati.com

None of us is guaranteed another day on this earth so it's time to wake up and take action on our dreams and stop worrying about doing it "right".  Pull the trigger, let it rip, and then figure it out as you go.  If Matt chose to ignore the urge to start this podcast because he didn't think he was ready, it never would have led to his upcoming book.  And even though upcoming guest Dan Bucatinsky won an Emmy Award as an actor, that didn't happen until he took massive action as a writer and producer, including his best-selling book to survive long enough for his big break.  That'll be out this Friday, April 24.  Monday Morsels are the short-form companion to our Friday Interviews of 10,000 "No"s... brief riffs on topics and themes covered throughout the show to give you food for thought to chew on throughout your week.   ANNOUNCEMENTS, PROMO VIDS & MORE, FOLLOW:  Instagram:  @10000nos  Twitter: @10000nos JOIN THE 10,000 "No"s TRIBE:  Visit our website to subscribe to the mailing list Shop for 10,000 "No"s Merch  Coach With Matthew   PODCAST EQUIPMENT WE USE: Microphone Manfrotto Tripod Rode Microphone Stand Beats by Dre Headphones Focusrite Charlotte 2i2 USB Audio Interface FOLLOW MATTHEW:   Instagram:  @mattydel  Twitter:  @MatthewDelNegro  Facebook:  Matthew Del Negro Fan Site  LinkedIn:  @MatthewDelNegro  

[youtube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PW3B9BXuy3k&w=560&h=315] In this special bonus podcast, we take a moment to talk to Aaron Goldfarb, whiskey and cocktail journalist and the author of Hacking Whiskey. We talk about his origins and how he got into journalism. The state of NYC at the moment during COVID-19. Then we talk about what led him into covering spirits, his thoughts on the secondary market crackdowns, some of his favorite articles, and where inspiration strikes. Show Notes: Hacking Whiskey Transcript 0:00 Alright, you knew I couldn't do a whole podcast without screwing up. You're gonna think I'm a boomer all these guys at home. 0:07 I'm Generation X. I swear it. Starts from the top. 0:22 Welcome to this special bonus episode of bourbon pursuit. We're all stuck at home during quarantine. So I can't think of a better way to make the time go by faster than bringing a few bonus podcasts to you all. In this episode, we're joined by Aaron Goldfarb. He's a renowned whiskey and cocktail writer. So you've likely come across many of his articles through vine pear, calm, esquire.com, whiskey advocate, bourbon plus, and many more. He has a book out called hacking whiskey and we talk about that later in the show as well. Now at the beginning of this podcast during that blooper, it sounded pretty good. Did that sound about normal? Well, it's about the sound a bit muffled because I 1:00 wasn't paying attention and didn't realize that Aaron was talking into his computer microphone instead of the external one. But don't worry just a few minutes in, we fix it and it all gets squared away. Now make sure that you are subscribed to our Facebook and YouTube channels because we are doing live streams pretty regularly now, and we'd love to have you join us. So enjoy this bonus episode and remember, keep those hands sanitized. We're all in this together. Cheers. 1:30 Welcome back to another episode of bourbon pursuit, a special COVID-19 edition. Kenny here and we are talking with somebody that had tried to join us in the last roundtable but we had some technical difficulties so I wanted to reintroduce everybody to the man Aaron Goldfarb. So welcome back. Take us back to the show. Yeah, I think I might have faked those technical difficulties just because I wanted that one on one conversation with you. You know what? I you're you're making a little money. 2:00 blush a little bit. I appreciate the appreciate the kudos there. But honestly, we're happy to have you. You know, actually, I got a message from Ryan and Fred earlier. They're like, hey, Are we recording something tonight with Aaron? And because I just I just put it in our BP calendar. And Ryan was like, man, I hurt my back today. I can't make it. I feel so bad. And then, Fred's Fred's. So everybody probably knows that he's doing live streams every single day at one o'clock and nine o'clock. And he's like, he's like, I can't make it just let Aaron know that he's one of my favorite writers. And I was like, it's like it's okay guys. Like I can I think I can handle this on my own. 2:35 I don't get double team. Yeah, when we start talking about whiskey and it's an easy way to kind of get going. So I kind of want to you know, learn more about you, I guess, you know, we've I've read a lot of your stuff before, through various media outlets and everything like that. But you know, I, we don't really know much about you. So kind of talk about a little bit like about your entry, like, first into journalism. And then really what 3:00 got you into whiskey as well? 3:02 Yeah, you know, my entry into drinks writing and whiskey is kind of just consistent failure over 20 years I, I went to film school 3:12 at Syracuse and I wanted to be a filmmaker. I kicked around in the early aughts and Manhattan, writing screenplays and trying to make films that didn't work very well. 3:24 wrote a few novels those worked a little better. But this whole time, like any good writer, I was drinking heavily. 3:33 helps me get through the good times in the bed. Right? But unlike the other writers who might have been slugging handles of vodka, I thought, well, you know, there's a better way to get drunk. 3:44 And luckily, you know, I moved to Manhattan in 2001. And that was right as craft beer was emerging. That was right. As you know, the craft cocktail scene was emerging in New York, the epicenter of all places. That was as you 4:00 You know, bourbon was again becoming hot, you know, Pappy 15 comes out in 2004, I believe and you know, you can get on the shelves for 30 bucks or 50 bucks. And that was a lot of money to me back then. So I didn't buy as much of it as some of my friends that had normal jobs did at the time. But, you know, it's very lucky to just be old and growing up at the right time, that naturally I was in all these scenes at the same time. 4:33 So I developed a knowledge base. I never had any plans to write about this stuff. 4:39 You know, your college counselor or your high school counselor doesn't say, you too, can be a whiskey writer when you grow up. 4:46 You know, maybe they say that these days, but they weren't saying that in the late 90s and early 2000s. 4:53 You know, I think maybe David wonder was the only booze writer on planet earth Michael Jackson, maybe 4:59 I've heard that name. 5:00 Before I know Fred's talking about Michael Jackson before, and everybody wants to think of the pop singer, but no, there was somebody before that, that or maybe not before that, but still a person in the scene that was writing a lot about about Jackie and about cocktails. Yeah, you know, Lou Bryson, I guess was there, he's always been there. 5:18 But you know, I built this knowledge base. And then, you know, around 5:23 the late aughts, the early 2010s. Now, all of a sudden, the mainstream publications were realizing, you know, these things are red hot, and we haven't cultivated any writers that necessarily know about these things. So I was a writer, not a magazine writer, or website writer, and I knew these things. And so my first gig ever was for Esquire, I kind of fell backwards into one of the best, you know, in my opinion publications in in the history of America. And I was writing beer and whiskey and cocktail stuff for them. You know, from 6:00 I don't know 2008 2009 on and then I kind of worked myself backwards and started writing for more niche publications, you know paunch fine pair whiskey advocate bourbon plus, and, you know, everywhere I've written for everyone by now, you know, I'm sure I'll be fired from jobs and right for new ones I mean it's the life of a freelance writer you take what you get and move on to the next one. That's it's interesting to like just like fall into Esquire that's like somebody like in my world just saying like, Oh, I got my first job. It's a Google right it's like in the in the tech world. So I think it's it's really interesting and cool like how you want to do that so have you been Have you been in Manhattan in New York most your life or like his his New York something? Are you your homeboy, you Norco your whole life? No, I kind of have a weird growing up too. I'm, I believe, a fifth or sixth generation. 6:54 Born in New York, and I lived there till I was about three or four and then, you know, this was the early 80s 7:00 In New York City, which I don't know if you've heard there were some issues. My my family moved to Oklahoma City. So along with Fred, I would be the second Oklahoma regular. I'm here. 7:12 live there till high school then, you know, back to New York since then. And I went to college at Syracuse and upstate New York, and I've been in New York City, now Brooklyn, since 2001. And I've been a Brooklyn since 2014. And so you're also in the kind of like the epicenter of what's happening right now with the Coronavirus I mean, especially with I shouldn't say the episode that's actually in China, but I'm saying like in America, like where all the eyeballs are on right now. It's like where you're at because it's it's the most you know, between you and San Francisco. It's the most densely populated area inside of the United States and you know, the numbers that are coming out and staggering like, I'm assuming that like right now it's it's pretty chaotic, like you'd be able to just like, look out your window and just like to see the rat start scurrying because there's no people out like, kind of give us an idea of like, what what's 8:00 Life in New York City right now. Well, you know, it's funny, I'm, you know, I've had some professional successes in my life, you know, books and whatnot. And that doesn't lead to strangers from my past necessarily writing me but this everyone I've ever met in the world who's got my email or phone number has been messaging me i think i think people assume with all the death and whatnot. It's a zombie apocalypse here, but 8:30 you know, I, I go outside every day. Some days I take a jog. There are not a lot of people on the streets. I am in a quieter neighborhood in Brooklyn. I'm in Park Slope, which is a family friendly neighborhood, but it is. It's, you know, a brownstone neighborhood. It's not the sticks by any means. I don't know what it's looking like in Manhattan now. I haven't been there in a month and I'm not sure if I'll be there for another several months. But um, 8:56 yeah, the streets are empty. 8:59 There's a lot 9:00 around the block space by six feet to get into every supermarket I go, I go Trader Joe's he's going crazy for Trader Joe's during this and it's it's funny like you say that cuz I've noticed that even our Trader Joe's there's people like lined outside so we'll say I would never go to Trader Joe's because the aisle width and news York is incredibly tight so I kind of go to the places where I don't want anyone bumping into me getting close to me. 9:27 You know of course unlike a lot of places we shop in New York by carrying it home so I go to my you know, snobby supermarket across the street and I put as much as I can possibly carry and I don't even really think that hard about what the week of meals is going to look like. And today my family just ate a grilled chicken with you know, whatever scraps we could also find some days we're eating incredibly and others were not like we ordered delivery about once a week that's still very avid here. 10:00 If you haven't heard just about every great cocktail bar is delivering cocktails right now. I haven't done that a lot. Because I have lots of booze myself, as you can see, and I know to make cocktails, and I'd rather deliver him and not coming to my house, both for both of our sakes but um, you know, if if you 10:19 you know, if I didn't have a family, I would just be reading a book a day and writing an article a day and watching a movie every night and drinking some whiskey and 90 days later, I'd come out of this, but I'm living in a house with a three year old and a newborn, and a wife who's on conference calls 10 hours a day for her busy job. So it's it's very stressful. It's very hectic, I'm outside of this dwelling 30 minutes to an hour a day if I'm lucky. 10:46 And you know, that's life right now. It's it's for people that are single and alone. It's probably lonely and incredibly boring. For people with families. It's It's It's probably the most stressful 11:00 In aggravated and tense I've ever been, you know. 11:05 So I kind of want to get back into your a little bit of your your journey into bourbon and your journey into whiskey. Like Did you have a Sherpa along the way that kind of taught you? You know, because I can look behind you in the camera right here and I see a bunch of wild turkeys decades. You got some knobs you got, but I mean you got more Russell's picks than probably rare bird 101 so 11:28 that's, and that's that's part of it too. So kind of talk about like, who was who's kind of like taught you the ropes. 11:36 You know, I kind of have a weird Sherpa. It wasn't you know, an older gentleman. You know, a good buddy of mine from college. You know, we were talking about I was kicking around making, you know, $15,000 a year writing screenplays no one wanted he became a salesman from day one. And this is my friend Derek. 11:58 And, you know 12:00 He had a massive expense account. So he didn't know more than me. But he could afford to learn things on someone else's dime. And I mean, a massive expense account. You can't even get guess the number and I won't say it in case there's 12:18 lessons and causes Listen, well, he doesn't work there anymore. But in case any litigation is pending. No, he lived in DC, which, you know, of course, at the jack rose. We've heard about what's going on with them right now. 12:31 And we, you know, he'd come to New York a lot for business. And again, this was when the emergence of really great bars in New York were coming, you know, milk and honey 1999 pegu club, I think that's 2005. 12:48 PDT 2009. Now New York's never been a really great whiskey city. To be fair. There's just too many rich people that, you know, if jack rose existed in New York, it wouldn't exist on day two. 13:00 They just got to make their prices even higher than if that's what it takes. You literally cannot price trophy bottles high enough in New York to keep them in stock. 13:10 But anyways Derek, you know we'd come to New York and we just spent silly money trying every cocktail on the menu at PDT trying any good thing in the house and you know, in the in the arts in New York City 13:26 it was still a wine city. So, you know, things like Pappy were in George t stag and stuff you could, you know, get for a reasonable Port $20 report wasn't reasonable to me back then. But of course it was reasonable to people with money so you know, even when I wasn't a writer, even when I had absolutely no money, I tried every every great whiskey released from you know, the late 90s on I never owned any of these bottles till till you know the last decade when I actually started making money by 14:00 You know, I remember when Derek got I think a case of tornado survivor and just all this stuff we were we were trying all this stuff and I you know, we were both learning together on on his his company's time. I mean, learn the learn on a case of tornado I think that's your living right are you know the right people I mean that's that just kind of give us the whole thing of like, you know you never own a boat, but you have a friend that owns the boat. And even better if the friend owns the boat and someone else is paying for it. See, there you go. That's, that's 10 times better. 10 times better. You know. And there's one thing that you kind of mentioned right there about, you know, trophy bottles like in New York just being always astronomical and always rocket high. I mean, I'm assuming at this point, like you've given up the chase in regards to finding something around New York, you've got your local spot, or do you just rely on as you mentioned earlier, just like buying pics from some of your favorite people in the scene? 14:57 Yeah, well, you know writers like me. 15:01 are lucky I get to at least try everything 15:06 released because because companies send it out they don't necessarily send full bottles but Buffalo Trace since you know the B tech lineup every year and you know, every company wants you to taste their stuff. 15:18 And I like all that stuff if I ran into, you know, George t stags or hands at reasonable prices, I do buy them. 15:27 But you know, one of my favorite things to drink is is Russell's reserve pics and they're 50 bucks or 60 bucks. That's what I'm drinking most nights. That's what I was drinking earlier tonight. This is what I'm drinking right now. 15:40 Oh, there you go. The bourbon Community Roundtable internet friends pick. I thought I thought I'd kiss some ass. We'll take it. But you know, some of this stuff is extraordinary. wilderness trail is extraordinary right now and even though I have you know, thousand dollar bottles in my house that I really don't give a crap about them being 16:00 drained. I'm reaching for wilderness travel right now I'm reaching for Russell's reserve single barrels almost every single night that I'm drinking. 16:09 So, you know, I don't I don't know why. That's what interests me. You know, Blake said to me, you know, he's drank so much great stuff that he kind of enjoys the rawness of young young craft whiskey. And I wouldn't say I enjoy that that much. But you know, wilderness trail has a flavor profile, you're just not used to, you know, how many more, you know, aged mdps can you drink? How many more you know? 16:33 weeders from Buffalo Trace, can you drink you know, at a certain point, it's fun to try new flavor profiles. And that's one reason I think you're seeing a lot of bourbon geeks get into Armagnac or wine or other stuff just because they're bored with with their palates. After you've drank everything. You're just like, you know, I need something else to excite me. Yeah, that's true. I think you I think you bring up a pretty good point too, especially when we talk to a lot of people in the whiskey realm. And I think it was probably what 17:00 Three years ago, maybe two years ago when this whole like MGP craziness, like what? A Well, I mean, just it went off the off the rocker. And there are groups that were searching and hunting and just trying to find this, you know, anything over 10 year MGP and just clearing out these smaller distilleries that had anything left of it. And people are really hung up on it. And, you know, when they look at even like what we did, and starting on whiskey line and saying, like, Well, why don't you go MGP right, because everybody else was doing it. Right. And, and I think that's, hopefully it's at the point that you people will start getting that sort of fat or palate fatigue of trying the same thing over and over and over again. I think Blake's a little bit of a special character thinking that like, Yes, I want young, young Raul whiskey. 17:43 I wanted to see if he get that tattooed on his back or something like that. But um, I think I think you do bring up a solid point there because there's a lot of not only great values, which you just talked about in the Russell's world, and you get a lot of diversity, especially with those pics 18:00 There's a lot of good stuff coming out from younger distilleries now that are starting. And I think this is a while we see the the plunge of MGP stock in B, you know why I think people are going to start changing their their minds here in a little bit. Because there has been this idea that, oh, like, I'm not buying gun whiskey, I'm not buying something that's not from Kentucky. That's I, I was that person like two years ago, maybe even three years ago, I was that person too. But now like, we're starting to get to the point where a lot of these distilleries around the country outside of Kentucky are having products that are four years old that are their knockouts, I mean, they're fantastic. And we're going to get to the point here in the next, maybe another two, three years, where the shelves are just gonna be littered full of just goodies like that. Yeah, well, you know, it's funny, a lot of people used to think craft whiskey sucked because it wasn't old enough. And now you have craft whiskey. 19:00 That's you know, and it's second decade and some of it still sucks which proves 19:06 the reason it sucked was not because it was young and then you have wilderness trail and new riff which are you know, four or five years and they're they're incredible you know a lot of craft whiskey I drink one time just to see what it tastes like well there's Tron New Roof I actually reach for over you know, the big boys 19:25 So, you know, it wasn't he that a lot of these brands that I will not name unless you you know, get me in a bar, not on your podcast were bad was because they were bad because they were distilled poorly because maybe they were fermented poorly because who knows why. 19:41 But you know, wilderness trail is as certainly shown that youth is not 19:47 any excuse for not being great. So so you know a lot about whiskies we can get that we can look behind you can read a bunch of your articles about whiskey, but you make a lot of different articles about mez cows and 20:00 About everything, like, kind of talk about your journey into other spirits like, it's it's cool to have your buddy that helps you get into this wonderful world of bourbon that probably spoiled you beyond belief. But then how do you how do you get into all these other sex of like figuring out I know you've done stuff on like the perfect Martini or stuff like that to like, kind of talk about, like, how do you get into the realm of doing that as well? Well, the cynical answer is I'm a freelance writer, and every article I write makes money so 20:32 you tell me what to write about. I'm in exactly. I'm writing an article right now. I'm sorry, Fred. Pay to pay was good. 20:41 But no, you know, I have a theory that guys like us. 20:47 We collected things and we were obsessed with things from day one. I collected baseball cards, comic books, anything and I collected them as hard as but I needed full sets. I needed everything I needed to know every any passion I need. 21:00 To know everything, and then you know on to the next one. So at a certain point, you don't know everything about whiskey That's impossible. You're still learning stuff. That's why I think a lot of people have moved back towards towards dusties. Because, you know, once you've kind of mastered the modern whiskey culture, you got to start learning. Oh, that distillery produced that Oh, that's where you know, you know, stilts or whatever. And then you start moving on to other things and other tastes. 21:29 You know, as I said, Armagnac has become an inexplicably kind of big amongst, you know, upper echelon geeks. You know, it's just fun. I do drink neat whiskey almost every single night. I'm not, you know, reaching for other stuff every single night, but I like to learn 21:47 other things. 21:50 You know, I drink a lot of rum rums a very weird category as I'm sure if you've read ROM curious. You might know Yeah. 22:00 down around here somewhere. Yeah, yeah. 22:03 A lot of cool things in ROM. You know, I'm Mike my quarantine drink of choice has actually been gin cocktails, which are fun. Yeah, I will say that I am a big fan of gin cocktails. It's just something that is it's light refreshing guys. Actually gimlet is like my number one. That's what I always reach for. That's actually my my wife and his official cocktail of quarantine the gimlet. See, we can hang out. It's like It's like Gatorade and cocktail form. And I'll tell you 22:34 and shout out to new riff. They've got a barrel aged gin, and that's what I've been drinking and it really is. Yes, it's fantastic with it. I have a bottle of that over there. I like their gin, but I've never thought to use a barrel aged and am I gimlet? Alright, tomorrow. Here you go. We're creating new traditions around here already. Yeah. So no, I you know, I'm just a fan of everything except vodka actually, but I will write about it. 22:57 You know if if something's interesting, I want 23:00 Drink it if something's tasty, I want to eat it. If something's good to read, I want to read it. You know, there's lots of things in this world I don't just don't understand people that you know, kind of get stuck in their lanes and don't try to enjoy and learn as much as they can about everything. It's It's fun to learn things. I mean, that's kind of the most fun thing is, you know, I'm trying like everyone else. I'm also getting into arm and Yak and it's fun to start at zero. And you know, after a year ago, I kind of know a little about Armenia. I could I could tell someone about that. Oh, I know a little bit about mezcal. I don't know a lot about mezcal, you know, that article you're referencing, we did a blind tasting with two bonafide experts. And, you know, I think I have a pretty good palate. So I can say what I think is good and bad, but I can't tell you about you know, the varietals of a golf a or you know why this one tastes like this or where this grew or you know, the different ways of fermentation but they knew all that, you know, and it's inspiring to think, wow, I could learn all that, you know, bourbon kind of really only has one way to make it 24:00 mezcal is infinite. You know, rum has so many. Just lots of stuff to learn and so little time, except now when we're all sitting home. 24:10 So you're, you're like a leech of information is that what it comes down to? Because you're able to kind of just talk to a lot of these people that are really, really know it alls in this world and just kind of really take their story and harness it and develop something that is appealing to a visual reader. Yeah, I mean, you know, I'll never convince my parents that the most fun thing about writing about alcohol is is actually getting free education is not free booze, but, you know, it's, it's really great. You know, some of my story ideas are literally like, you know, I'd like to know a little bit more about that. And, you know, it's like a con game, I can reach out to the most important person on the topic, and they're going to talk to me if you're an average off the street, and you email the most important, you know, Armagnac maker Gen distiller and said, Can I talk to you for an hour they'd be like, 25:00 know why, but you know, they'll move mountains to talk to me just because I will write about them. So, you know, it's it's not just a way to pay the bills. It's not just a way to get free drinks. It's, it's, it's a free education on topics that interest me and you know, after over a decade of this stuff, I still have a passion for it all. So when we get back to like a whiskey article, is there one that you've written over the years that you look back and you think like, man, I loved writing that one like was, you know, was it the person? Was it the? Was it the whiskey? Like, what was it that that really like, drove you for that article? You know, my favorite articles are kind of goofy or dumber, less prestigious ones. I mean, I will admit, like the one you did with, what was it? Janae Yeah. Janae. And she made that ridiculous, old fashioned way back in the day that went viral. And you kind of said like, all right, where's she now sort of thing? Yeah, I mean, those are my favorite to write. 26:01 You know, I can I can write a, you know, 26:04 interview with a distiller or an article on how a whiskey is made, you know, in my sleep but you know, the kind of weird ones one of my favorite articles I wrote for ponch probably four or five years ago was the history of when it became very trendy in New York and Miami for bars have beds in them literal beds in them. 26:23 And those stories are always very hard to report. You know, if you if you want to write a story about you know, a distillery today, it's very easy to get these people on the phone to talk to you, they'll talk to you all day. But if you you know, I wrote a history of of foam parties a few weeks ago for fine pair, How the hell do you find a guy in the 90s who decided you know, we should blast foam into these a booth in nightclubs. It's not easy. 26:49 And it's, it's, you know, I could write a lot easier stories I could write, you know, what we call listicles Top 10 whiskies and, and, you know, get paid And work for an hour but you know, I just thought 27:00 have a passion for finding these really stupid, weirdo stories and bringing them to you. I just had flashbacks of like Panama City Beach, Florida next spring break. It's just what happened right there. 27:15 I can't wait to read that article and it comes out. So there's nothing that you'd mentioned right there about like, top 10 lists. And it seems like that is that seems to be a driver for a lot of lot of articles. It seems that it I mean, it could be articles, it could be YouTube videos, it's anything anything as a top whatever. It just drives people to it. I mean, do you have a like a love hate relationship with it? 27:40 Yeah, I mean, you know, every time uh, you know, 27:45 Esquire, GQ, you know, best whiskeys to drink right now. 10 best, whatever lists come out, you know, I see the Facebook comments I'm not seeing articles written by me articles written by anyone. And people resume their, you know, the, the brand paid for them or whatnot. 28:01 It's it's not that insidious but you know it's it's kind of like an ecosystem. You know, the brand hires a publicist and pays them, the publicist and bottles to a writer. The writer drinks the bottle, the writer wants to keep the publicist happy. The publishing company asked for a top 10 whiskies list. They publish the last 10 whiskies the last 10 publicists they like sent to them, rinse repeat, so I don't really like that stuff. 28:27 publicists probably hate me more than most writers in New York because, you know, kind of 28:32 bitchy and I don't play those games. But you know, every writer on planet earth writes listicles whether it's David wonder richer, you know, whoever, you know, they pay the bills. They have good SEO. Everyone argues about them. It doesn't matter what website it is. If you write the top 10 whiskeys right now it'll do pretty well for the day. I try to write those as little as possible. They do not interest me 28:59 if I'm doing 29:00 Those kind of lists I tried to make them interesting. I did a 29:04 about every year or two, I try to pick the best whiskey in every state for Esquire. 29:10 That'll keep you busy drinking. Yeah, it's tough. It's tough. And you know, people get furious. That's not North Dakota's best whiskey house as this guy ever tasted, blah, blah, blah. The answer is probably no, I've tasted maybe one or two Caesar, but I'm trying my damnedest unlike a lot of writers who are listening, you know, but as I said, the last 10 whiskies they've gotten the mail. 29:33 But, you know, it can be very tough to be thoughtful in this industry. When a lot of 29:42 you know guys like me, or girls like me that get paid to do it can kind of just phone it in, you know, the amateurs actually put more work in it because they're doing it for a passion not to make money. So you know, whisky blogs are some of the best smartest out there. 29:59 Whereas 30:00 You know, a lot of professional websites and magazines, it was just, you know, Hey, could you write this over the next hour? Well, I don't know anything about vodka. Okay, well, right, it's 30:09 go to the store, get five bottles, review it come up with a list. Yeah. I mean, is that is that something that in the writing world, I mean, I guess I can kind of even picture it my own world where it very beginning of my career, like I was gung ho, and I was trying to cut my teeth doing grunt work and trying to, you know, doing a lot of like, like, really hard kind of it stuff and like working insane kind of hours. And then at some point, you're just like, Okay, give it up. I'll focus on what I'm good at. And then, you know, kind of just like, let the professionalism take off from there. I guess in like, the growth pattern of what a writer is like is does it kind of have that same sort of trajectory or path in regards of, you know, you start off early, as you kind of mentioned as an amateur trying to like write a top 10 list and then you're like, Okay, I'm done with that, like, I'm going to try to find some more 31:00 Interesting. Well, I mean, food and drink writings unlike any other, you know, we're so close to the subjects, you know, we have friendship with bartenders and distillers and whatnot. 31:15 And if we weren't doing it, we'd still you know, drink these things and go to these bars. I don't think anyone would, you know, hang out with politicians if they weren't a political reporter. You know, and there's, you know, the famous thing that just sports writers hate sports by the time they've been a sports writer so long. 31:33 Yeah, you know, when you're early on trying to break into writing, and it's probably different now. 31:38 Or maybe it's even tougher now. You'll take anything someone gives you it just seems like so hard to get paid a literal dollar to write something. So it's less early on for a lot of these writers and I noticed it amongst younger younger writers right now about finding your voice and trying to do in anything interesting. 32:00 And more letting you know the site's dictate you. And the funny thing is, if you came to these sites as a, or magazines or newspapers as a 22 year old with these outlandish ideas with these crazy ideas with these ideas that no one else is writing, you probably have a better chance of selling it, you'd probably have a better chance of making good money 32:21 and it took me a while to figure that out. 32:25 figure out exactly like Oh, you're gonna pay me more I'm gonna go over this way. Yeah, wait, I'm gonna give Redbird a shout out. Yeah, go for it. David's a good friend of the show. So he's an adult and I can see you've got all you got a lot of Turkey breaks over. Okay, yeah. wrestle wrestle the muscle there. so fantastic. So I guess another question is, is that you know, once you start getting into this world, and yet, I can always understand as a writer, you have to be conscious of, you know, where the money's coming from. And so that's what you focus on. But is there something about whiskey that keeps you intrigued or keeps you kind of always tied to it? 33:01 We're like, What is it? What is it about whiskey or bourbon that like keeps you wanting to come back for more? Well, the one thing I don't write a lot about is mine. And I never really understood why I don't dislike wine. I'm not a connoisseur. And then I realized and I said to my 33:18 editor, puncture Italia, I just don't find wine funny. But whiskey is so funny. And if you've read a lot of my stuff, it's about you know, secondary markets. It's about Turkey dues. It's about you know, California gold. It's about infinity bottles. It's about, you know, geeks lining up at jack rose, even though you know, there's a pandemic, you know, there's just so many funny characters. The distillers aren't necessarily funny character characters, but they're not necessarily funny characters. But the collectors the the people that drink it and pursue it and and the people that listen to podcasts about it. They're just funny characters. 34:00 Probably a funny character to look, I live in a 1200 square foot apartment with two children and I got an entire room of whiskey. That's, that's, that's not probably a good use space. 34:12 But um, yeah, it just infinitely cracks me up to to go on the internet every day and just see what whiskey geeks are talking about doing and drinking and trading and arguing about meaning and all that stuff. And maybe one day it won't, but it's really funny to me. And, you know, if you're writing a boot story, and there's not something funny about it, it just doesn't interest me that much. As Sure. There are some of the good memes that come out of whiskey and come out of bourbon, especially, you know, even those secondary markets where people get butthurt. And then you've got the the other groups where there's people that basically have court hearings about you know, stuff like that. I'm kind of like, what at what other point would people just have this like fake court system over a transaction of bourbon that happened on the black market, like 35:00 It's it's comical. Yeah, I mean, you know, my like, career like, ethos has been trying to explain this weird world to like normal human beings like no you you first of all you have to know like 10,000 acronyms. 35:15 Yep. Yeah, I always I always thought that there'd be like a good t shirt like just full of acronyms like everywhere. You have to have like a stock market ticker in your head. What? Happy 23 Pv w 23 is now worth 19,000 You idiot. Then you just have to I mean, you have to know like if I don't pay attention for a week I come back and I'm I'm I'm messaging my friend Derek who's still locked in on it. Like what the hell is going on with this? Is that a real thing? You know? Is this is this will it box club a real thing? And you know, that was I tell you what, that's been one of the greatest recent ones when it's you can just tell the the oh geez versus the new people that are into it. They're like, Where's the signup button? I don't see it. Yeah, well, that's you know, that's 36:00 Also really funny to see you know, it drives me nuts because you know even though I said you know from the get go I was trying very good stuff I still you know, paid my dues and spent money on regular Maker's Mark and odd and stuff and these guys who were you know not even drinkers last week or you know, thinking they can just go from like nothing to balling out with you know George t stag or whatnot, it's like you know, slow down 36:28 train your palate start with 80 proof let's, let's get you up to 36:33 this level. I will say that is is like one of the corner cuts that you are, you know, corners that you can cut here in the in the whiskey world is that if you come with a big enough checkbook, you could have one of the best collections that are out there in bourbon, you know, because it's still, you know, especially in regards of what scotch prices and everything like that our whiskey prices even Pappy 2318 1900 dollars a bottle. That's that's a drop in the bucket for what some scotches go for so 37:00 If you come with a big enough checkbook, you could have one of the most insane bourbon collections that are out there just by buying directly off the secondary. Yeah, that's why it cracks me up you know? 37:10 Every so often there's yeah well constantly there's How do I get Pappy post have money. I mean, it's not hard. 37:17 You know, my friend of mine, Alex Bachman, he, I think he still does he used to 37:24 fill bars with with with spirits that was his job to find, you know, a new bar opens and they want the you know, most sick list he'd fill him up and you know, everyone Oh, we got the full Pappy collection. We'll just give him $10,000 and he can do that. It's not very hard. What's hard is finding 1960s tomorrow. What's hard is finding you know, 1950 stencil well, or what's hard is finding, you know, obscure scotches you've never heard of, or Japanese releases of, you know, whatever. That's hard buying, you know, Van Winkle or B tech that comes out every single year. You just need market rates. 38:00 Money. And again, it's not that much. You're right. I know you've written on the secondary market, but I want to kind of get your idea of like, Where is your stance on it in regards of how it was taking down or how it was kind of like ripped out? Like, was it a good thing for distilleries? Is it bad for the overall ecosystem of bourbon? Like, what's your what's your take on that? 38:18 Well, you know, I used to say, I was a free market capitalist. Now I'm stuck in a pandemic. 38:26 You know, you don't really see the secondary market for new scotch. And why is that? It's because it's priced correctly. 38:35 A lot of bourbon is not priced correctly by the distilleries. 38:41 Because they want to be the good guys who, you know 38:44 20 years ago, there was no such thing as bourbon that cost more than $50. And you know, Blanton's you know, in the 90s didn't sell for $30. So they remember that time, and they remember that time is bourbon being in every man's drink. And so 39:00 They don't want to charge what it should cost. 39:05 And, you know, I'm very friendly with Buffalo Trace, but I don't think you know, releasing their press release every single year and saying MSRP, Pappy 15 $80 or whatever it is, I don't know what it is right now. I don't think that makes him look like a good guy. It just makes everyone else fight over what the accurate prices. 39:26 So I don't begrudge anyone for charging what they charge. I don't begrudge anyone for paying what they pay. 39:33 And I think it's kind of ridiculous that the distilleries get mad at so called gouging. Well, they should price it what its price because no one's bought an $80. Pappy and, you know, a million years unless they live in a control state I suppose and won a lottery, which is likewise absurd. These places. These places would need lotteries if it was priced correctly. 39:56 So now, you know, I think that the the online Secretary 40:00 The market does the job that the distilleries didn't do and that everyone's mad at the liquor stores for trying to do. 40:08 Do you think that this is also a play by some of the distilleries to say, well, 40:15 let's look at the long game here. Let's not try to make a quick buck off of it and price it at the market instead. And you and you know that you've seen pretty much every distilleries putting in multimillion dollar expansions and everything and so they're betting on this on the long term. And it's it's the Amazon model, right? It's it's like let's let's do, you know, massive scale and not try to do you know, just short bursts of high volume? Yeah, you know, that that's true, and that's, that's a fine way to work. You know, how many total van winkles are released a year 80 to 100,000 compared to how many Buffalo Trace Eagle rare whatever. So you know, how much of a moneymaker is it for them, whether it's 41:00 Priced correctly or priced at whatever they want to call the MSRP. Yeah, I think that's a fine strategy and I guess honestly, Buffalo Trace is maybe the only distillery that has to deal with that for roses one release a year old forester one release a year, you know, all these places with one release here. 41:21 have to figure out what it what it should cost. So, you know, if that's what they want to do, I think that's fine. It feels a little hypocritical for them to price it at, you know, a very low MSRP and then get mad at people for pricing. It is the correct one. I likewise think it's silly for 41:40 liquor stores, though to you know, proudly put up their George t stag for $900. It's like, you know, I think you have better goodwill. If you sold it to your best customer for $90. I think you'd have better goodwill if you figured out a way to get it to a true lover for $90. Instead of making that extra three or $400. 42:00 But you know, I people, 42:03 economist aren't necessarily opening liquor stores. So 42:07 that's, that's for sure. Everyone's trying to figure out what works best for them and and pays the bills. Well I think the moral of the story there is that every other distillery needs to come out more special releases. Because if you do that, then they just keep following that same exact trail, every release should be a special release, right? Absolutely. Every bottle of special bottle. 42:30 And so I'm gonna just kind of like go back to like one of your stories real quick, because you had mentioned the California Gold stuff. And I know the person that makes that he's a good friend of mine. And I know that when you write stuff, and whether it be about secondary, whether it be about something like that, you might get a lot of blowback catch a lot of flack online, like have you ever like felt like Oh God, like people are really attacking me over something like this? Yeah, I mean, you know, 43:00 If you're a writer on the internet, you get called an idiot everyday your life. 43:05 But if you feel like you're exposing Fight Club or something, well, you know, it's tough because you know, I'm both a part of the hobby, I enjoy drinking these things. And I don't want to ruin the hobby, but I'm also looking for interesting stories. And after writing these stories for years, it's impossible to ruin the hobby. California gold was again, something I drink at my friend Derek's house. 43:28 And for a year or two, I was like, you got to get me in touch with our friend. 43:36 And, you know, he's he didn't want he didn't want press and then for whatever day when he said, Okay, I'll talk to you. 43:44 And 43:46 my daughter was a newborn then and it was about the worst behave she's ever been. And I was conducting this really tough score of an interview while she was just losing her shit. And yet, it did very well and 44:00 Now people I see a story came out and 44:04 can't even remember a literal magazine citing California Gold the other day and it didn't even it acted like everyone knew what that was. It was very weird, but I've become friends with Mr. California gold. 44:17 We talk occasionally. He's always got interesting takes on things. And I think it's great even though most of the commenters under Facebook will say it's not that good. 44:28 Well, most of the commenters are probably the ones that never actually had a chance to try it. And that's what it comes down. Yeah. So joke's on you with that one. 44:37 Whiskey. Awesome. So, oh, yes, yes. Make sure you're talking about hacking whiskey real quick. I want to give you a plug for that. Sorry for the shameless plug. No, at least through this is actually a perfect book for this time. came out in 2008 18. has a lot of my funny stories like California Gold, infinity bottles, I think I think I'm the first person read about infinity bottles. Maybe the second I don't know. 44:59 But it's 45:00 Really funny geeky stories plus experiments you can do from home blends. 45:08 Like you know, Travis hills. 45:11 The four roses thing Yeah, barrel proof yellow label. Yeah, really fun. you acquire every single four roses and make a barrel proof yellow label. And we did that and he also tried to do creating his own Moray mirages or marriages or whatever they're called, looking all the small batch limited edition selects and then actually trying to go and find those exact age ranges and try to do the race and ages and stuff. Yeah, I wrote about Yeah, I wrote a punch article about that too. 45:41 Where Blake mentions that he likes to Vitamix his blends because he puts them together and people were furious about that. 45:47 But yeah, there's fun experiments fat washing which is infusing you know, meats and butters and stuff into whiskey for cocktail, smoking cocktails. 45:57 Making foods out of whiskey. It's it's a very fun book. If you're 46:00 stuck inside with nothing to do except a lot of whiskey and how am I going to use this for everything I'm going to do for the next 90 days? A lot of fun experiments. There you go find it on Amazon I'm guessing Yes. Like everything else and they're still delivering so you don't have an excuse go by hacking with order it right now. It'll be there tomorrow. Well, you know, Aaron, I want to know like I said, this is a really good opportunity to kind of catch up talk about more I guess more about you your writing career and as well as just talk about whiskey in general, and kind of get an update on what's happening instead in New York. So it's been a pleasure getting to talk to you this time. It was fun. We didn't have any kids run in and yell at me. 46:40 Technically, I could hurt I hurt I hurt him a little bit the background so yeah, I mean, we'll we'll clean it a little bit and post but yeah, it turned out I think the biggest technical difficulties my quarantine beard. 46:53 are you growing it out until you until you can walk outside and and shake hands with somebody again? Or until my wife divorces me? 47:01 Whichever one comes first. No a day for whichever one comes first. There you go keep that razor handy though. Yeah. 47:10 Well Aaron, that was awesome talking to you. If anybody like wants to get in contact you or wants to, you know follow you on social media how they gonna do that? 47:20 If they want to yell offensive things at me Twitter's fine at Aaron Goldfarb, 47:25 also at Aaron Goldfarb and Instagram. 47:29 And you can probably figure out my email address too if you want to send me crazy tips about blends you're making or weirdo stuff going on in the secondary market that I can turn into a story and get everyone mad at me for ruining bourbon. I guess it's another thing is like, do you actually search Instagram to be like, Oh, that's interesting. Like I could write an article about that. Like, is that are there ideas that pop up like that? Yeah, like like most human beings on planet earth when I have nothing to do, I'm looking down at my phone looking at Instagram, not necessarily whiskey stores. 48:00 But there's just so many bottles out there and things so quickly become hot. You're like why is this cool guy making a big deal about something that what is this? 48:13 And I usually as Derek I say what is it? 48:17 You know? Yeah, yeah, yeah, you see weird stuff on Instagram and you file it away I usually screenshot it 48:25 to pay attention to it because I'm usually looking at Instagram late at night after a few and the next day go Is that something and you know if you see it happen a few more times. Okay, now you got a trend. Let's follow this. See what's going on. But yeah, yeah, that's a good place to find stories. See if you can get inspiration from anywhere then. Anywhere just when you're in the house, the only place you can get inspiration from is your phone. 48:46 Awesome. So Aaron, thank you again for coming on the show is a pleasure to have you. Make sure you go you follow Aaron on other social media channels. You can follow bourbon pursuit as well. And we'll see you next week. Transcribed by https://otter.ai

[00:00:00] Is now a good time to buy or sell in Bridgewater? Let's find out. [00:00:03][3.3] [00:00:07] You're listening to the Bo Knows Real Estate Podcast. Tips and advice for home buyers, sellers and owners with award winning Remax agent Bo Kauffmann. [00:00:17][9.9] [00:00:21] I've been producing Winnipeg real estate market updates for many years. It's a great way to see what's going on in our city, but real estate is even more local than that. Each neighborhood can have their own unique market conditions. So if you're curious about your area in Winnipeg. Email me at boknowshomes@gmail.com, And I'll create a special report just for you. So let's take a look at Bridgewater at the beginning of April 2020. [00:00:45][24.6] [00:00:46] As far as detached homes go and homes that are finished and constructed, not under construction. There's currently 112 houses for sale in Bridgewater. The majority of them are between the 400 and $700000 range. So there's 29 houses between four and five hundred and 33 between five and six hundred. And the prices go all the way up to just shy of $2 million. [00:01:09][23.0] [00:01:10] Currently, there are five homes that are under pending sales, meaning that they've got offers and they've been accepted. But the buyer just maybe hasn't gotten their financing yet. So there's five conditionally sold at this point. [00:01:21][10.8] [00:01:22] While over the last two weeks there's been two final sales, both of them in the four to five hundred thousand dollar price range and both of them sold at just under list price. So there was no multiple offers and no bidding wars in those sales. [00:01:34][12.5] [00:01:35] Looking back over the last month, including those two sales I mentioned earlier, there's have been a total of 15 sold over the last month, 8 of them in the four to five hundred thousand dollar range. 6 of those sold under last 2 sold over lists and 6 homes in the five to six hundred thousand dollar range. Again, 5 under list, 1 over list. And then the the other sale, a 15th sale was in the six to seven hundred thousand dollar price range, also sold just under list. [00:02:01][26.7] [00:02:02] But this final stat is perhaps the most important one because it's compare sales this year as opposed to the same 31 day period over the last three years. That'll tell us whether the market has changed with a crew on a virus has anything to do with that. So this year, including those five pending sales, we've sold 20 homes in that 31 day period. Last year was 28 and the year before was 31. And then in 2017, it was 23. So we are slower than each of those years. Not by much, but there is a bit of a drop right now in the Bridgewater area. [00:02:35][33.1] [00:02:35] So in summary for Bridgewater, with 112 listings available, the lowest one at 380 and the highest one just shy of $2 million. Bridgewater and South Pointe are excellent buyers markets right now. So if you're looking to buy a home in Bridgewater Trails, Forest, Lakes or South Pointe, a Prairie Pointe, give me a call 204-333-2202. [00:02:35][0.0] [144.0]

That'll cost ya... - Last Modern Family - Choco Egg Vibrator

Sheneisha sits down to chat with wellness lifestyle enthusiast and author Tonya Kinlow in this special Sunday episode themed around managing COVID-19 induced stress. They talk a good bit about the practice of meditation, Tonya offers three tips about what we could be doing to help manage our wellness during the pandemic, and she also talks some about the impact this outbreak will have on our minds following its eventual end. Connect with Tonya on LinkedIn, and check out her website, remarkablewellness.us.Interested in finding out more about the TKI Remarkable Wellness Journey? Learn on Facebook, Instagram, and YouTube.You can click here to browse Tonya's books on Amazon.Find out how the CDC suggests you wash your hands by clicking here.Help food banks respond to COVID-19. Learn more at FeedingAmerica.org.Visit our website.TRANSCRIPTSheneisha: What's up? Sheneisha here with Living Corporate, and today we'll be discussing managing COVID-19-induced stress. We have a very special guest. Our guest is a Wellness Lifestyle Entrepreneur, A Woman in Technology, a Certified Health & Wellness Coach, a Blogger, and an Author. Her three books, A Year of (ME) Mindful Eating to Improve Wellbeing, The 10 Days- A Wellness Retreat for Personal Transformation and A Wellness Journey are all dedicated to health and wellness through mindful living. She writes a weekly blog, Mindfulness Matters, raising awareness for living a holistically healthy life. An avid foodie and mindfulness enthusiast, she left Corporate America in 2016 to launch the UGottaEat app, creating a virtual marketplace providing much needed fresh and healthy meals into local communities, and a platform for food sharing. UGottaEat is dedicated to improving the overall health and wellness of society. She also launched TK Inspirations offering Remarkable Wellness Transformation Coaching, group Wellness Journeys and inspirational meditations talks based on discovering wellness through purpose, and how we together can improve the overall health and wellness of our world. Before becoming an entrepreneur, our guest was a Finance Executive with a corporate career spanning over 26 years. A crippling car accident involving her children led to the awakening of her spiritual journey. She takes great pride in being from Washington, DC and a graduate of THE Florida A&M University. Her greatest joys are her children, Evan and Taylor, and her husband, Chef Craig Stevens. Let’s welcome our special guest Tonya Kinlow! Tonya, welcome to the show.Tonya: Thank you. Thank you for my introduction.Sheneisha: It is fabulous, as it only should be being a Rattler.Tonya: Yes! Oh, that's so exciting. I love my FAMUly. Absolutely.Sheneisha: Yes, and it's so good to have you. So how are you?Tonya: I'm good. You know, I'm like everybody else, surviving this virus, a new way of life, but, you know, I really try to keep it positive and be a light for other people. So in that way I'm doing well, healthy and happy.Sheneisha: Yes, I love that. See that? A whole 'nother logo. There go another business, Tonya. [both laugh] Tonya: Let me write that down... [laughs]Sheneisha: So Tonya, I've given the intro. Can you tell us - who is Tonya Kinlow?Tonya: So, you know, many years ago I probably would have said just what you said. I would have said what I do, things like that, but now--it's funny because one of the first questions I ask when I do my morning meditations is "Who am I?" You know? "What do I want? What is my purpose?" These essential questions. "What am I grateful for?" So it's not what I do but who I am. So I can say I am a spiritual being living a human experience, and I am a seeker, you know, seeking truth and wisdom and ultimately happiness and inner peace, and in that way we're all alike, you know? We all want the same things. I think I just sort of transitioned and transformed over time to sort of when I got out of corporate and started thinking about life in a bigger way that it just became my goal. Like, who doesn't want to be happy? Like, I think everyone's goal should be one of happiness. So I've started to focus more on the spiritual part of me versus just the human part, which is where there's a lot of power. So I would say, aside from what you just presented about me and my background and where I went to school and where I'm from, who I am is a spiritual seeker. I'm looking, and my job, my role, my purpose is to use my gifts to make the world a better place. So I'm uniquely me. I'm a woman, a mother, mentor, entrepreneur, spiritualist. I practice compassion. I'm funny. I got a loud laugh. I am really smart, people tell me, and I'm just a little bit of a diva, and that's me. [laughs]Sheneisha: And you know what? I love all of it, all of it, and I love how you made the point, or emphasis, on the difference between who you are and what you do. That's important. That's so, so important. I think a lot of times we get that mixed up. Could you share more insight about TK Inspirations? Like, how did you enter this space of wellness transformation? But let's start first with tell me about TK Inspirations.Tonya: So TK Inspirations is only a year old and we've done a lot. About a little over a year, maybe a year and a half ago, I was finishing my second--my second and third book, because they sort of accompanied one another, and it's called The 10 Days. So I was talking about these seven intentions, a way of living life, that I have discovered over my lifetime that really can help you overcome any circumstance that comes before you. Like, it just takes your mindset, your way of living, and it's a practice, and so I developed these seven intentions and I wrote a book about it, and at the same time I decided to get a certification for being a health coach, because I felt like I wanted that, you know, certification behind my name and the technical aspect, and that was more, like, about, you know, your insulin levels and carbohydrates and proteins, the really more practical, so I was able to combine, as I do now with everything, right, the practical human side with the spiritual side, and they both--and then align them. I did that. So they were coming out. We self-published and then got it on Amazon, and we were okay, and I went on--last March, a year ago--on a cruise with my sorority sisters. I had a big anniversary celebration and I led the morning meditations and they--we started having a conversation and they loved the idea. They said, "Everybody needs to know this now." So from there I started doing wellness journeys and coaching and just talking to people about these principles and teaching these things, and I did two wellness journeys last year. They're, like, each 60 days long. I do a talk every week. So it just grew, it just blossomed, and meditation is one of the intentions, and it's just been very liberating. I actually have now--I feel like I have, through these intentions and through this journey, created the life that I want. Because I've gone through divorce, as you mentioned my kids had a really bad car accident. I've had some very tough things, as we all have had. The beauty is though when you learn how to overcome these things. I've learned. I've survived, like we're gonna survive this virus. I've survived. I know how to overcome things, and I was able to say, "Ah, here's the things that got me through," and now I just love to help other people make that same connection. So it's all inspirational, all transformational, and so it's about remarkable wellness. So that's how we got that going. And so that's TK Inspirations. Really, actually I didn't even think about it, like, we're celebrating an anniversary right now. A year old.Sheneisha: Well, happy anniversary. If I could sang, I would definitely you hit that with that "It's my anniversary." [both laugh] I would, but congratulations on TK Inspirations's anniversary, and thank you so much for entering this space and giving us something to help us even go beyond surviving, and with that being said, Tonya, I'd like to dive into this COVID-19-induced stress. That's what I'm calling it, y'all, COVID-19-induced stress. So what are the symptoms of stress, and how can we manage it during a time like this?Tonya: So stress manifests itself in a million ways, but some of the really obvious or major ones are--so the physical ones are headaches. A lot of people are tired now, even though they're not even really doing anything, you know? Fatigue, lethargy. Just something not being right. That's sort of the physical thing. Sometimes people break out in hives. The emotional piece is more you can recognize it when you're overthinking, your mind is racing, you have fear and guilt, you know? There's, like, this anxiety, this edge, and just a lack of motivation and a lot of uncertainty. When you're feeling this way, that is stress. And then there's also some really unique things I wanted to point out that people may not be aware of. Anything that's sort of off-kilter or that's different, it's stress, which is an indicator where, if you're paying attention to it, then you can manage it or you can learn how to live with it. So for instance, for me I've been having time shifts, and I've talked to two other people this week who are having the same issue. Like, the time... time doesn't make sense anymore. I think only 15 minutes has gone by and it's been an hour and a half, or I think it's been 3 hours and it's only been 20 minutes. Well, that's an exaggeration. An hour and a half, you know? Or I'd wake up in the middle of the night and I'd close my eyes and wake back up, I think it's 15 minutes, and it's time to get up, right? So these feelings of, like, nothing is the same, that is also an indicator of stress. Not as harsh or harmful as, you know, migraines and things like that. That's just sort of a wake-up to remind us that everything is changing right now. So I think that's interesting. I don't know if people think about time shifting or if you can't recognize--like, people don't look the same to you. Like, if you've ever looked in the mirror and said, "I don't recognize myself anymore," you know? Times of high stress, things just don't seem--it's like a vertigo or an imbalance. Those are all indicators of stress, so those are things to look out for. Anything off, anything that's not working out. And then the question is, as you said, what do you do about it? And the first thing is to be aware of it. So I have to be aware that I'm being stressed out. "I'm thinking too much. I'm getting these headaches," and then you can do something about it. So the first step is, like, just checking out your own body, checking out your own behavior. Oh, I forgot to mention short tempers, you know? Attitudes. Some people just don't handle stress well, and those things, you have to find it in yourself, see it, and then you can react to it. That's the first thing. If people just walk around blind, it is awareness. So I would say the big one thing is to think about what you think about. That is the first thing. What are you stressed out about? What is it doing to your body?Sheneisha: That is a really good tip. I didn't even think about what to think about.Tonya: Mm-hmm. It's awareness, right? Because stressors are--we just let our bodies run wild, you know, with thoughts and worries and fears, but if you start to think about what you're thinking about, there's an infinite amount of things you could be thinking about. Why just choose the negative ones? Once you start recognizing that, it just makes a world of difference.Sheneisha: A big, big difference, especially if there's so many things already being projected on you from family and friends and just this whole ordeal right now from what you see in the media. It's easier to revert to the panic like everyone else when you can honestly just take a moment for yourself and have that carved out time where you meditate and reflect on things that are impacting you. I know a lot of people right now are probably going crazy sitting in the house with their families and their loved ones. You can look at this side of it and just say, "Hey, this is that vacation. It may not be exactly the vacation that we wanted, but this is that time when we can really embrace one another and learn some things about your family that you never knew before," you know?Tonya: Yes, exactly. And that's another thing, when people are getting a little of, you know, that cabin fever, and so within--it builds, the stress builds, because then what? People start to overeat or eat whatever they can get their hands on because they don't want to go out, you know? Or drink too much or binge watch TV, you know? So there's some things that we might do without awareness that are just negative, it just sets us back. It stresses us out more. Now we may have gained weight. Sheneisha: Ooh. I have to manage this. I done went on Amazon and got all this stuff for a home gym. Like, Lord, keep these pounds down. And it goes even into my next question. Like, what are three tips you would like to share to those during this quarantine? Like, what should we be doing?Tonya: Yeah, okay. First is to give yourself a break. Now, this is overarching. This is overarching. We're all in the same boat. None of this is anyone's fault. So the ability to pay bills, the inability to go outside, all of those, this is--we've never felt the oneness of the world and the universe before. We should feel it now. So one is to just give yourself a break. Let the guilt go. Let the fear go. It's all going to be okay in the long term. So that's just, like, a big mindset, but for practical things also to do at home that, you know, we can't use--I always say we can't just use the same things that got us here, so we, as humans, we focus on our five senses, but we are spiritual beings. There is a bigger power that this is the time to tap into. This power is changing the entire world right now. Like, there's a virus spreading. People are working together, you know? People are being kind to one another. There's a whole shift that's happening. You know, tragedy breeds kindness sometimes. It's a shame that it has to be a tragedy. So there's a lot. So creativity is the first thing. We don't have to be competitive now. We're not at work, you know, competing for that next promotion or racing home 'cause we gotta beat the traffic, you know, to get home and make dinner for our kids. This is the time where you can let that competitive side go and bring out the creative side. So do some home projects, do some do it yourself. I've been making shea butter. I just sent my best friend a package with some whipped shea butter with lavender. It's beautiful, you know? And it's something nice to do in the afternoon and I could send it to someone. Journaling, you know? Do things internal or find, you know, something creative. Then the second thing is positive thinking. I just said there's a million things you can think about, so instead of focusing on "Oh, there's no toilet tissue," well, there's facial tissue? You know? Sheneisha: See, I told y'all about this toilet paper. Nobody is listening to me. People are going crazy about this toilet paper. But yes, please proceed.Tonya: Yeah, it's crazy. I literally went to six stores one morning. I really needed it, like, last week. Like, six stores, and then finally I found--I waited for a truck to deliver. It's crazy, but I wasn't mad. Like, I don't understand. I don't understand. I guess I do understand the psychology a little bit, but I tend to say, "Well, I was just picking up some more packs of facial tissue. I just need some tissue." [laughs] You know? Or anti-bacterial stuff. I looked up how to make it. I made some at home. Like, instead of angry and upset about the negative, it's about shifting your mindset to a positive space, to a creative space. You can find solutions, and if you don't it's still gonna be okay. And then the third thing is the biggest thing, and this is one of the seven intentions - meditation, and I mentioned it before. It's one of the biggest things you can do to calm your mind. So what produces stress is this chemical, cortisol. Meditation calms--it blocks the production of cortisol. So the things that we do, the spiritual things align with our bio-chemistry, with our body, and when we are aware, when we start to recognize and manage those things... if you meditate in the morning, it will make your whole day go better. I mean, that stillness and time with spirit, God, the universe, however you call it, will cover your whole day, and it brings that awareness to you. So those three things, those three tips. It's a shift for people because we're so busy and crowded throughout our days that we don't take the time to be creative, to pick back up that hobby, to read a book, you know? To think about creative solutions instead of complaining about problems. So these three things--and the meditation thing, if you can just do one thing, start a meditation practice. That's a stress reliever. It's physical and spiritual. It's, like, a magic elixir.Sheneisha: Yes, meditation, and this meditation goes into - how do we stay focused, right? So we're meditating, right? How do we stay focused while experiencing a pandemic like COVID-19? And even things outside of just this, 'cause there's so many things that can impact your day and induce stress. How do we stay focused during this time? Would meditation be the key?Tonya: Medititation would be one of the keys, one of the main keys, to healthy--because when you start to... and I talked about those seven intentions, when you start to be able to overcome any situation, that means any situation. We all have deaths and relationships and sicknesses and illnesses. That is how life goes. People come into our lives, people leave. So we always have these. The question is how do we overcome them? What are the tools? How can we be equipped? Meditation is one of--it's the biggest--and to me that's the alignment of the physical and spiritual, but there's other things. You know, exercise, self-care, journaling, getting enough rest, but the one thing that you can do to stay focused, I'd say on the practical side, is you set your mindset. It's all about a mindset shift. Again, now, the mind works--there's this executive function, so whenever you put yourself in the context of a situation, you make better decisions and that situation is easier. What do I mean by that? When you're at school, you know you're at school. It's about the teachers, your friends, your homework, what are your assignments. That's what you're thinking about. You're not thinking about your family reunion when you're at school. When you're at your family reunion, hopefully you're not thinking about work. You're meeting your cousins, you're cooking out, you know? "What are we gonna eat?" You're all in that context. Right now we need to be in the context of health and wellness. So everything that--if you can just focus everything that you're doing, bring it back to "Is this good for me?" Is it "Am I washing my hands? Am I keeping a good distance? Am I being mentally healthy?" Everything will naturally come back to the context of health and wellness instead of putting everything in context of the virus. That's gonna make you fearful. It's gonna make you stressed out and depressed. So yes, the virus is part of it, but the main context, the main focus is health and wellness. "How do I stay healthy?" Not "How do I avoid sickness?" "How do I stay healthy?" It's the same thing, but that positive outlook and energetic transference is in your mindset. So everything--we're not at school. We're not at work. We're living our lives. We're in our home. But we are in the mindset of health and wellness. That will go so far, awareness to health and wellness.Sheneisha: So with this health and wellness and it taking us so far, what impact do you think the coronavirus will have on our minds following this, like, months beyond, hopefully when all of this is over and it's resolved. What impact do you think it wil leave upon the minds?Tonya: I think we have a great opportunity to find ourselves, find the world, in a better place. I think we would be missing an opportunity. Once we get through this, it's gonna be like spring. Like, we're going through a winter. We're going through a setback. It's like the world has the flu or the world is going through a divorce. The globe is going through a tough time, but like every time, once you get over it there's an emergence, and I think that we're gonna find that we're gonna work together, we're gonna have a lot of compassion for one another, because a lot of us are suffering losses financially, physically, people, and we all feel bad for one another, so what's gonna happen is there's gonna be a lot more compassion for one another, and that in and of itself is gonna make the world a better place. We're gonna be cleaner. We're gonna be more caring about our fellow man, all of those things, after we get through it, but we can get through it positively. I always say, "You create the future in the present." What we do now determines the world that we're gonna be in. If we start wars now, fighting over beds and, you know, things, if we begin a war, it's gonna take a lot longer. If we go negative and close our doors to helping other people it's gonna take a lot longer, but what I see right now is a lot of compassion showing up, and if we can learn how to get over this hump positively, the world will be a better place on the other side.Sheneisha: Yes, it definitely will. It definitely will be a better place, and that can start with y'all stop withholding all that toilet paper, how about that? Let's start there. #1. [both laugh]Tonya: I went to the store today. I told you I made shea butter. I also made hand sanitizer, and when I was at this little store, the guy, he said "I'm almost out of hand sanitizer, oh, my goodness," so I took him a bottle today and I just gave it to him. He's like, "What do I owe you?" I said, "Nothing." I felt so good.Sheneisha: See? Look at that, y'all. It's things like this, you know, to show that oneness that you spoke of earlier. There was a need, and you went and used the resources you had to help meet that need, and hopefully that can just be paid forward to so many others. And you know what? That plays into your wellness lifestyle. So what are some misconceptions that people of color about wellness lifestyle?Tonya: Oh, my goodness. So many from different places. I can say, you know, on the spiritual aside, because I'm talking about--and I call it remarkable wellness. It is your body, your soul, your spirit, your emotions. It's everything, because it's all interwoven. So, you know, if someone says, "Oh," you know, "I'm not into that wellness of the spiritual side," they think you're trying to take them away from church, you know, or something. That's why I say, you know, "If you don't believe in God, or if you do, or if it's the universe, however your words are," but we get real protective and scared around that, so that keeps us limited sometimes. When it's working out, it is--sometimes people just don't want to get their hair sweat out. [laughs] We gotta get away from that. Like, a healthy body is meaningful, but people have a conception--they feel like it's not fun, and being healthy and strong and energetic is fun, you know? It's like, if you gotta go upstairs to get to your bedroom, that's just what you gotta do. It's not good or bad. So we have these sort of notions around just not wanting to change what we have, and I think this is a good time for us to start getting past that, you know? People say, "I don't have time to work out. I don't have this, th--" We've got time now. There's plenty of time, and this would be a great--what if we all came out on the other side of this in--I'ma just say four months. Who knows how long it's gonna take? Three or four months--healther than when we went in because we actually had time to sleep, to walk, to whatever? So I think that we just need to change, we just need to sort of break some falsehoods, and my main thing is it's all about awareness. I mean, once we start focusing on the negative side of everything and start focusing on the positive, it sort of takes care of itself. If you have a wellness mindset like we were talking about, then you're gonna want to work out. It's only 30 minutes, you know, 45 minutes. It's because of your mindset. You know it's gonna reduce your stress. It's gonna make you feel good. You're gonna be in that wellness space. So those are a few things that I think we gotta sort of turn the switch on.Sheneisha: Yes, turn the switch on to this awareness, this health, being in this space, and talking about being in this space, can you speak to the live meditations? Like, you've done recently a few live limitations, and they've held impact that has helped change the community.Tonya: Yeah. So I mentioned meditation a few times, and I'm not, you know, a master or anything, but I'm very connected, and so I know how good it makes me feel. What I tend to do is bring people together. So the last meditation was on protection and healing, because that's what we need now. And, you know, wherever two or more gather there's a lot of power. so the live meditations, bringing people together. I did a Facebook Live, and I'll try to do them weekly. When you bring people together in that oneness, in that energetic space, it's powerful. It's really powerful when you do it by yourself anyway, but when you bring people doing these things together [?] it makes all of the difference. And what meditation does for me is it makes me more connected. So everything is energy. Everything is vibrational, you know? Whether you can hear it or not, like a dog hearing a whistle or radio vibrations, you know, everything is actually that energy that we transfer. It's what sort of connects us. So examples of how this invisible or spiritual or whatever we want to talk about energy works. You know when someone's staring at you from across the room. You know when someone's standing too close to you behind you, when someone walks on you. You know when you call someone or when you think of someone and then they call you. Those things aren't coincidences. That is how the energy works. And so with meditations and those practices, you learn how to control some things. You learn how to control your thinking. Because you only want positive energy to come to you, so therefore you only put positive energy out, and that's what I do in my meditations. I am putting out positive energy, and sort of we're all lifting the world. We're building a sacred space, almost like protection. Like, you can almost just envision, like, a bubble around you, and it's just the light of God. It's all things good. No conflict. Peace. Inner peace. Happiness. Wisdom. Fulfillment. That's all we need. That's all we want. And so when you can continue to practice energetically, how does that feel? How does that feel when you give that out to other people? How does it feel when you receive it back? These are the live meditations. So we create a sacred space of health and protection and, again, if I'm happy and I can make you happy and then you make someone else happy, we've just made the world a better place just like that. So that's what I try to do in my meditations, and we'll keep up pretty much topically. Right now it's clearly all about protection and health, but I think it's also about transformation. We're going through a transformation, and I think we can do it positively.Sheneisha: Yes, we can. How can we join y'all on Facebook? What's the Facebook page where people can tune in?Tonya: TK Inspirations, and I have [?] on Instagram, but we definitely did the Facebook Live, and I think we're gonna just definitely do it weekly. So definitely join my page, follow me, and it's TKIRemarkableWellness on Facebook, and it's @Remarkable_Wellness on Instagram. And I just started a YouTube channel too, and I will be doing some meditations on there, and we talk about these seven intentions more and daily affirmations, everything positive. So whichever gets your, you know, mode of social media, I try to show up in different ways.Sheneisha: And speaking of showing up, what's the YouTube channel?Tonya: TKInspirations. Yep. Tonya Kinlow TK Inspirations. That'll bring me up. And we just launched it right before this started, this virus started, so it's very new, so I would love to have more conversations on there. Sheneisha: Yes, guys. Make sure you check out TK Inspirations YouTube, TKIRemarkableWellness on Facebook. Tune in. And Tonya, are there any key takeaways you'd like to share with our listeners?Tonya: Yes, that I think the biggest thing that we're gonna take from this is what I would call whether it's the law of attraction or, you know, giving and receiving. Stay mindful of that, because what you put out you definitely always get back, and so that's why it's important to put the stress away. Let it go, because what you're wanting is a clean, healthy experience, and we're all connected, so just that connection, positivity, positive energy. With that and practicing that every day, you can overcome anything. And again, I talk about seven intentions, and when you put them together in a certain way they are so powerful. Each of them by themselves is powerful, like meditation or exercising, but when you put them together in a certain way it is extremely powerful. All positive things, no negatives. Always positive.Sheneisha: Yes, all positive. All positive vibes all 2020, please.Tonya: All day long.Sheneisha: Yes, I love it. I love it. Tonya, do you have any shout-outs? Family, friends, YouTube, Facebook? Any shout-outs?Tonya: Yeah, I want to shout-out to all of my wellness journeyers. I want to shout-out though to all of the people on the front lines right now. The health care workers, pharmacists, doctors, PAs, RNs, everybody. The policemen, everything. Just the oneness, and then all of our families. Certainly I shout-out FAMU. We on the phone, right? [both laugh] And to my family, my kids and my husband for sure. And I just want to say that we are about to launch a new wellness journey, so I want to shout-out the TKI Wellness Journey. Like I said, we did two last year. It's 8 weeks. Every week we talk about one of the intentions. I do a one-on-one coaching with everybody, and it's interactive. We do it on Zoom so people can ask questions. So when people are thinking about what to do at home, this would be great. Like, take the wellness journey with me, and we're gonna launch it... it's gonna start April 13th. And the other thing we didn't say is my website. All the information is on remarkablewellness.us. So that's coming. I would love to see more people be a part of it. And during that we do this 10 days--it's like a retreat. We're working together. I'm doing guided meditations. Like, we're just doing a wellness retreat at home. So I think it would be a great time for more people to participate in a wellness journey. That's my big shout-out.Sheneisha: Yes, y'all. Make sure y'all participate. Be active, especially in a time like this. Oneness, positive vibes, being united, helping each other out, just putting forth all things positive going forward.Tonya: All things positive, and there's no need to be bored. Like, this will be a great, positive addition, and again, we all come out on the other side better than we went in.Sheneisha: Yes, so much better. So much better. And thank you again for highlighting all of those on the front line, our nurses, physicians, pharmacists--all my fellow pharmacists, physical therapists, respiratory therapists. All of those on the front line, thank you guys so much for what you all are doing. Police officers. Even those at Auto Zone. Shout-out to Auto Zone, you know? Helping those out when they need things. So just thank you guys in this, everyone. Thank you all so much.Tonya: Oh, my goodness. The people at the grocery store. The cashiers. Oh, my goodness.Sheneisha: Yes, cashiers. All grocery stores. Thank you, Wal-Mart. Thank you.Tonya: Stockers, yes.Sheneisha: Yes, everyone. Truck drivers, thank y'all, because I need my food and my tissue. Everybody, thank y'all. UPS, FedEx.Tonya: We're a thankful people. This energy, and this--it's just gonna make it better, and I'm so thankful for you for having me on here. I'm very happy about this. Thank you for having me. It was a great conversation. I feel good hearing you.Sheneisha: You know, and vice versa. Thank you so much, Tonya. We greatly appreciate it. And that is our show. Thank you for joining us on the Living Corporate podcast. Be sure to follow Tonya Kinlow on LinkedIn and her website, Remarkable Wellness. You guys heard her YouTube channel. Make sure to follow in. And her Facebook page, TKIRemarkableWellness. Make sure you guys follow her. All things positive energy. And make sure to follow us on Instagram @LivingCorporate, Twitter @LivingCorp_Pod, and subscribe to our newsletter through www.living-corporate.com. If you have questions you'd like for us to answer and read on the show, make sure you email them to us at livingcorporatepodcast@gmail.com. This has been Sheneisha, and you've been listening to Tonya Kinlow, founder of Remarkable Wellness, TKI. Y'all, check her out. This is great, great energy, and just thank you again, Tonya, for being here with us today. Thank you.Tonya: Thank you. Thank you so much.

It's April Fool's day, and tonight we continue our free-flowing chatting. There is more evidence of rampant illegal activity with FISA; Adam Schiff wants to investigate COVID-19 when the dust settles; and The CIA's tweeted out a homework assignment: Review Their 'Records' on UFO's! That'll give me some time to read through an article on Spies, Secrets, and Alleged Alien bases. Calls, Questions, and Theories about Ongoing Child Rescue Operations in New York City. Check out Kheyleve, our All-American, All-Natural Skincare Sponsor, and use promo code 'FRANKLY' at checkout: https://www.kheyleve.com/ Watch the full show here: https://youtu.be/jwtiuvGBzxo Sponsor the Show: Patreon: http://www.patreon.com/QuiteFrankly One-Time Gift: http://www.paypal.me/QuiteFranklyLive SubscribeStar: https://www.subscribestar.com/quitefrankly BTC: 1EafWUDPHY6y6HQNBjZ4kLWzQJFnE5k9PK LTC: LRs6my7scMxpTD5j7i8WkgBgxpbjXABYXX ETH: 0x80cd26f708815003F11Bd99310a47069320641fC Episodes On Demand: Spotify: https://spoti.fi/301gcES iTunes: http://apple.co/2dMURMq SoundCloud: http://bit.ly/2dTMD13 Google Play: https://bit.ly/2SMi1SF Stitcher: https://bit.ly/2tI5THI BitChute: https://bit.ly/2vNSMFq Official WebSite: http://www.QuiteFrankly.tv DISCORD Hangout: https://bit.ly/2FpkS11 Quite Frankly Subreddit: https://bit.ly/2HdvzEC Steemit: https://bit.ly/2FrNkyi Twitter: @PoliticalOrgy MINDS: @QuiteFrankly Live On: Periscope: https://bit.ly/2FmsOzQ Twitch: https://bit.ly/2TGAeB6 YouTube: https://bit.ly/2exPzj4 DLive: https://bit.ly/2PpY0k0

Dr Carolyn Lam: Welcome to Circulation on the Run, your weekly podcast summary and backstage pass to the journal and its editors. I'm Dr Carolyn Lam, Associate Editor from the National Heart Center and Duke National University of Singapore. Dr Greg Hundley: And I'm Dr Greg Hundley from the VCU Health Pauley Heart Center in Richmond, Virginia. Well, Carolyn, we've got a great feature article this week, evaluating do we wait or do we do now ablation of ventricular tachycardia in patients with ischemic cardiomyopathy and implantable defibrillators? But before we get to that, how about if we grab our coffee or whatever it may be and jump into the other articles? Dr Carolyn Lam:               Sure. Well, Greg, have you ever wondered what the outcomes are of transcatheter aortic valve replacement, or TAVR, in patients with bicuspid aortic valve stenosis? Now, remember, patients with bicuspid aortic valve stenosis were excluded from the pivotal evaluations of TAVR. Dr Greg Hundley: I wondered that yesterday, Carolyn. Dr Carolyn Lam: Well, guess what, Greg, it's your lucky day because we're going to get answers now from corresponding author Dr Brennan from DCRI and coauthors who use data from the Society of Thoracic Surgeons, American College of Cardiology, TAVR registry from 2011 to 2018 to determine the device success procedural outcomes, post-TAVR valve performance and in-hospital clinical outcomes in almost 171,000 eligible procedures, of which 5,412 TAVR procedures were performed in bicuspid aortic valve patients, including 3,705 with current generation devices. Dr Greg Hundley: Wow. Carolyn, this sounds to me like probably one of the largest collections of patients that have had TAVR and bicuspid valves. What did they find? Dr Carolyn Lam: Well, compared to patients with tricuspid aortic valves, bicuspid aortic valve patients were younger and had a lower STS predicted risk of operative mortality score, so you have to bear that in mind first. With the current generation TAVR devices, the incidence of device success was only slightly lower for bicuspid versus tricuspid aortic valve patients and residual two-plus aortic insufficiency remains slightly higher, though, for bicuspid versus tricuspid aortic valve patients. There was no difference in adjusted one-year hazard of stroke in patients with bicuspid versus tricuspid valves, but the adjusted one-year hazard of mortality was lower among bicuspid aortic valve patients. Thus, using current generation technology, TAVR appears both safe and effective for the treatment of bicuspid aortic valve stenosis, although there remains a low incidence of moderate or greater aortic insufficiency among both bicuspid and tricuspid aortic valve patients. Dr Greg Hundley: Very nice. Well, Carolyn, do you ever wonder how white cells are recruited into areas of the heart that have sustained a myocardial infarction? Dr Carolyn Lam: Every day, Greg. Every day I think about that. Dr Greg Hundley: You know, we've got so much wondering on your side of the world and on my side of the world, but if we connect that we will solve a lot of things. Well, this paper is from Dr Prabhakara Nagareddy from Ohio State University. This group of investigators used a mouse model involving ligation of the LAD and flow cytometry to characterize the temporal and spatial effects of myocardial infarction on different myeloid cell types, a process termed myelopoiesis, that results in heightened production of neutrophils. The investigators sought to understand the mechanisms that sustain white blood cell production in recruitment to the injured heart using global transcriptome analysis of different cardiac cell types within the infarct. In addition, just as these clever circulation papers do, also a human subject study was performed utilizing a combination of genetic and pharmacologic strategies. The authors identified the sequela of events that led to MI-induced myelopoiesis. Cardiac function was assessed by echocardiography and the association of early indices of neutrophilia with major cardiac events, or MACE, was studied in those patients sustaining an MI. Dr Carolyn Lam: Wow, that's a huge amount of work. What was the bottom line results? Dr Greg Hundley: So, first, in the patients with acute coronary syndromes, a higher neutrophil count on admission and post-revascularization correlated positively with major adverse cardiovascular disease outcomes. And then, second, from the basic science component, the study identified novel evidence for the primary role of neutrophil-derived alarmins and, in particular in this study, S100A8-A9 in dictating the nature of the ensuing inflammatory response following myocardial injury. Therapeutic strategies aimed at disruption of this S100A8-A9 signaling, or its downstream mediators in neutrophils, were shown to suppress granulopoiesis and therefore, perhaps in the future, could improve cardiac function in those patients sustaining an acute coronary syndrome. Really elegant work. That combination of the basic science in the animal model and then the translational work in the human subject model. Dr Carolyn Lam: Exactly what I was going to say. Translational work. Well, hold onto your seat because this next one is super cool, too. It is the first time a pre-clinical development and first in human proof-of-concept of peritoneal direct sodium removal using a zero-sodium solution as a candidate therapy for volume overload. So, as a background, remember that loop diuretics have been well described to have toxicities and that loss of response to these agents are common when we try to treat volume overload. So alternative strategies are clearly needed for the maintenance of euvolemia in heart failure. These authors, led by Dr Testani from Yale University hypothesized that non-renal removal of sodium directly across the peritoneal membrane, that is called direct sodium removal, using a sodium-free osmotic solution should result in extraction of large quantities of sodium with limited off-target solute removal. So what they did is they performed porcine experiments followed by a human study in which participants with end-stage renal failure on peritoneal dialysis underwent randomization and crossover to either a two-hour dwell with one liter of this direct sodium removal solution or a standard peritoneal dialysis solution. Sodium-free 10% dextrose, by the way, was utilized as the direct sodium removal solution. Dr Greg Hundley: Boy, Carolyn, this is really another one of these elegant translational studies. So we have the animal model, we have the human subjects and then we have different concentrations of these peritoneal fluid that are injected and then extracted for dialysis. I can't wait to hear. So what did they find? Dr Carolyn Lam: First, cycling a sodium-free osmotic solution that's a 10% dextrose across the peritoneal cavity of swine resulted in substantial sodium removal. So, proof of principle there. The sodium removal increased proportionately as the volume of 10% dextrose cycled across the peritoneum increased. Experimental elevation of right-sided cardiac filling pressures also resulted in substantial increased sodium removal with this technique. Now, in the humans, a single dose of sodium-free 10% dextrose was well tolerated in human subjects and resulted in over four-fold greater sodium removal than the strongest commercially available peritoneal dialysis solution. So, direct sodium removal with a sodium-free osmotic peritoneum solution represents a new potential therapy for non-renal sodium and fluid removal in edematous disorders such as heart failure. However, there is a long way to go in deploying such a procedure in the heart failure population. And this is really highlighted and discussed in an accompanying editorial by Dr Robert Toto from UT Southwestern. Dr Greg Hundley: Fantastic. Carolyn. Bob Toto always puts things really in perspective. That'll be a great read. Well, let me tell you about a couple other articles in this issue. Dr Bina Ahmed from Santa Barbara Cardiovascular Group has a very nice on-my-mind piece getting at this issue of how we should, as physicians, be reacting to the healthcare issues. Also, particularly in cardiovascular disease, as they occur in the face of climate crisis. A great read. Then there's a beautiful adult learning excerpt put together by Dr Daniel Kramer from the Richard A. and Susan F. Smith Center for Outcomes Research in Cardiology at Beth Israel Deaconess Medical Center. It involves a patient that presents with some symptomatology associated with their thoracic spine. They have to undergo an MRI. They've got an implanted device. How do you work through that? What do we need to do with anticoagulation? It turns out the patient also may need a Watchman device. Who is a candidate for that? Boy, it's just a great educational read. Carolyn, there is a lot in the mailbag this week. Professor John Madias from the Icahn School of Medicine at Mount Sinai and Dr Adaya Weissler-Snir from the Hartford Hospital and University of Connecticut exchanged some letters regarding the article previously published on hypertrophic cardiomyopathy-related sudden cardiac death in young people in Ontario. Robin Woods from Monash University has a research letter involving no modulation of aspirins effect by body weight in healthy older men and women. And then Myra Lipes from the Joslin Diabetes Center Harvard Medical School has a research letter entitled the Cardiac Autoimmunity is Associated with Subclinical Myocardial Dysfunction in Patients with Type 1 Diabetes. Dr Carolyn Lam: And I'll add one more research letter by Dr Dempsey on prospective associations of accelerometer-measured physical activity and sedentary time with incident cardiovascular disease, cancer and all-cause mortality. So something that's really a hot topic now. Man, that has been a great issue. But let's move on to our feature discussion, shall we? Dr Greg Hundley: You bet. Well, listeners, welcome to this feature discussion where we're going to understand a little bit more about ICDs and ventricular tachycardia and we have Dr Karl-Heinz Kuck from the University Hospital of Lübeck. We have Francis Marchlinski from the University of Pennsylvania and we have Dr Sammy Viskin, our own associate editor from the Tel Aviv Medical Center. What a great study. So, Karl, I'd like to start with you. Can you give us a little bit of background about why you wanted to perform the study and what was your hypothesis? Dr Karl-Heinz Kuck: There is an ongoing debate in clinical electrophysiology, what would be the optimal timing of catheter ablation in patients with ventricular tachycardia and ventricular fibrillation. Now, until today, most patients come to catheter ablation at a very late stage of the disease, mostly after multiple ICD shocks. So the patients are in a very bad condition and our strong feeling is the patients should undergo, much early, a successful catheter ablation. The study was initiated with the background that we, and others, have shown that a very catheter ablation, which is before any ICTD shock, a so-called preventative ablation, is superior with respect to clinical endpoints as compared to optimal medical treatment. That's number one. And number two is that we know from retrospective analysis of multiple ICD studies that ICD shocks increase mortality as compared to patients with ICDs that have no shocks. So, on one side we have the benefit of a preventive ablation which has been shown in three randomized trials, and on the other side we know that ICD shocks increase mortality. So somewhere in between multiple ICD shocks and no shock should be the benefit of catheter ablation and this, exactly, was the background of the BERLIN-VT Trial to investigate whether a very only catheter ablation study, which is after the first episode of VT/VF, before any ICD shock, would be superior as compared to having an ICD implanted and follow the patients and then ablate the patients after an arbitrary taken number that we set to three ICD shocks. We were looking then for a combined clinical endpoint to see whether there is any benefit of prophylactic, or preventative, ablation versus what we call deferred catheter ablation. Dr Greg Hundley: Can you tell us about the BERLIN-VT? What was your study population? A little bit about the design. Dr Karl-Heinz Kuck: Yeah. The patients that we investigated were patients only with ischemic cardiomyopathy who would had a previous myocardial infarct, to reduce the number of interventions that would require an epicardial access in that patient population. That's number one. And number two, the patients should have an ejection fraction above 35 because a previous study that we have done, the VTACH Study showed that there was no benefit of catheter ablation in patients with a very low ejection fraction, so this was the patient population that we were looking. And then patients had to have had at least one episode of VT/VF before they were randomized either into preventive ablation or into deferred ablation. Dr Greg Hundley: How many participants were in your study? And then tell us a little bit about the study results. Dr Karl-Heinz Kuck: We randomized the 76 patients to preventive ablation, and 83 patients do differed ablation. The number, we originally thought to be higher, but we had redesigned interim analysis and after the second interim analysis at the DSMV, we commanded to terminate the trial for futility. And at that point in time when the study was terminated, these numbers were included, which was almost two thirds of the patients which were originally included in to the front. Dr Greg Hundley: What were your results? Dr Karl-Heinz Kuck: Now, which respect to the endpoint of the trial, which was the primary endpoint, which was a composite endpoint of all-cause mortality and unplanned re-hospitalizations for worsening of heart failure or ventricular arrhythmias, we did not find any significant difference between the preventive and the deferred ablation group. Actually, after 12 months, there were 21% of patients in the differed, and 27% in the preventive ablation group, and these numbers almost doubled over two years but didn't show any difference. So with respect to the components of the combined endpoint, we also didn't see any significant difference with respect to overall mortality, hospitalization for worsening of heart failure and hospitalization for worsening of ventricular tachycardia or ventricular fibrillation, despite the fact that there was a strong trend to a reduction of hospitalization for VT/VF in the preventive group as compared to the deferred group. But this was fully compensated for the primary endpoint by an increase of hospitalizations, early hospitalizations after ablation for worsening of heart failure and a somewhat higher mortality rate in the preventive group as compared to the deferred group, which I believe was really bad luck because almost none of the six [inaudible 00:17:12] in the preventive group died due to cardiovascular reasons. Whereas most patients in the deferred group died because of ventricular tachycardia, ventricular fibrillation. Now, what is interesting to mention is that with respect to the secondary endpoint, which is sustained VT and VF and appropriate ICD therapy, there was a significant benefit of preventive catheter ablation as compared to deferred catheter ablation but, as I mentioned before, this could not be translated into a benefit with respect to clinical outcome in the trial. Dr Greg Hundley: Thank you, Dr Kuck. Dr Marchlinski, could you help us put this in perspective as we're thinking about patients with ischemic heart disease that we are considering implantation of an ICD? Dr Frank Marchlinski: Yes, definitely. First, I like to congratulate the investigators. This is a real tour de force, a lot of effort, multiple centers involved. Dr Willems, Dr Kuck, congratulations because this is an important effort. I think that one needs to realize, of course, that it is our goal to try to eliminate VT with the hope that we're going to improve mortality outcome in addition to improving quality of life. It's a worthwhile goal. I hope someday we will achieve it and that we'll be able to use ablative therapy very early in the course, even in advance of ICD implantation and potentially even to prevent ICDs. That's a worthwhile goal and something that we all need to target as investigators in this area. But Dr Kuck's study demonstrated that we're not there yet to use it as very early in the course of a disease before patients manifest a lot of arrhythmia recurrences. One thing is for certain, though. This study, although important in suggesting that we need to take our time in terms of planning to do the ablation procedure, we don't want to delay. There's enough evidence to say that repeated shocks can increase mortality, as Dr Kuck pointed out, and enhance a bad outcome. It certainly provides a very poor quality of life for the patient to experience these shocks, so we need to consider the timing of when it's appropriate, when patients begin to experience ICD shocks after receiving a defibrillator and not wait for repeated shocks, not wait for excessive dosing with Amiodarone, but rather to intervene in a timely fashion after a patient begins to get the shock therapy. It was clear that even the BERLIN-VT investigators didn't wait for multiple additional shocks. As soon as patients received one or two shocks, they got enrolled in this study, this is the deferred limb, and took advantage of the effectiveness of ablation to reduce the number of VT episodes. Dr Greg Hundley: Sammy, now back to you. What study do we need to perform next in this field? How do you think the results here guide us moving forward with research in this area? Sammy Viskin: As Frank said, in [inaudible 00:20:25], it is very important that patients are not referred too late for ablation when they arrive after many shocks and they're already, sometimes even encouraged to getting shocks. The present study shows that perhaps they should not be referred for ablation too early at this point, at least not until we get better with our ablation techniques. So we need studies on how to improve our ablation techniques. They keep getting better, but they still have a long way to go. And then we should be able to define the optimal time when it's not too early and when it's not too late to perform the ablation procedure. Dr Karl-Heinz Kuck: I agree with all of what had been said. I just would like to mention that the study, the BERLIN-VT Study compared, actually, very early catheter ablation versus early catheter ablation. We just wanted to know whether very early ablation is better than early because I think that all the three physicians here, the three electrophysiologists, would agree that we would be happy if most of the patients would even be sent after the second or third shock. Many patients having multiple more shocks before they are sent for catheter ablation. So, in this sense, the BERLIN-VT Study was an aggressive study because they did not allow patients to be sent after the 10th shock, after the 15th shock, after an electrical storm. So we are comparing very early versus early ablation and I'm not giving up, like Frank Marchlinski was saying. I'm not giving up on the idea. Sammy is saying we are not yet there, but we should continue to prove that an early ablation is superior to a late ablation. But BERLIN-VT did not look at the very late ablation component of the strategy here. I think what this study shows and what all the other studies also show how difficult it is, in the field of VT/VF and severely diseased patients, to do such a randomized trial. We have a lot of problems to enroll these patients and therefore, I was glad that we could at least get some information out of the trial. I'm still supporting the idea that the international community should work closer together in the field of catheter ablation of ventricular tachycardia and ventricular fibrillation so that we could increase the number of patients within a rather short period of time that should be included in these VT ablation trials. That's, I think, another learning that I've done from this trial but also from some of the other trials that we and others have done in the field. Dr Greg Hundley: Well, listeners, we want to thank Dr Karl Kuck from University of Lübeck in Germany, Dr Frank Marchlinski from University of Pennsylvania, and Dr Sammy Viskin from Tel Aviv Medical Center. We've really heard some insightful results related to ICD placement and those with ischemic heart disease from the BERLIN-VT Study. It really emphasizes the importance of, as we move forward, international collaborations when we're trying to study this patient population. Well, on behalf of Carolyn and myself, we wish you a great week and look forward to chatting with you and grabbing a cup of coffee next week. Take care. Of this program is copyright of the American Heart Association 2020.  

Breaking news!  Running cocaine from Columbia to the United States will now result in a ten or fifteen million dollar bounty being placed on your head -- unless, of course, you happen to work for the CIA. Bill Barr couldn't find it in himself to indict the Clintons or the Bushes for the Iran-Contra / Mena Airpot cocaine smuggling scandals, but he has no problem bringing the hammer down on Venezuela's president for doing the exact same thing. That'll teach him not to cut in on the CIA's turf or sell oil for non-dollar denominations. After all, we're printing money in the United States like it's going out of style. We can't have ROGUE NATIONS deviating from the international dollar standard in the face of inflation, can we? We'll also be talking about the Wu Flu and its impact on New York City, Iran, and California. This is EPISODE 398 of So to Speak w/ Jared Howe!

Coronavirus. A lot of people are scared - and money is being made off of our fear. In this episode, let's take a calm look at the facts presented under oath by health professionals in Congress and in official press conferences. What is happening? How does this virus work? How is it transmitted? Why are we all being told to stay home? By the end of this episode, you will have those answers and (hopefully) be better prepared to handle the bad news that’s soon to come. Please Support Congressional Dish – Quick Links Click here to contribute monthly or a lump sum via PayPal Click here to support Congressional Dish for each episode via Patreon Send Zelle payments to: Donation@congressionaldish.com Send Venmo payments to: @Jennifer-Briney Send Cash App payments to: $CongressionalDish or Donation@congressionaldish.com Use your bank’s online bill pay function to mail contributions to: 5753 Hwy 85 North, Number 4576, Crestview, FL 32536 Please make checks payable to Congressional Dish Thank you for supporting truly independent media! Bills H.R.6201 - Families First Coronavirus Response Act, Congress.gov Articles/Documents Article: Who Is Dr. Deborah Birx? All About the Health Official Fighting Coronavirus by DeAnna Jones, Oprah Magazine, March 17, 2020 Article: House may not return to session until third coronavirus response bill is ready by Lindsey McPherson, Roll Call, March 16, 2020 Article: What Went Wrong with Coronavirus Testing in the U.S. by Robert P. Baird, The New Yorker, March 16, 2020 Article: Senate Leadership Is Pushing Through a Dangerous Surveillance Bill as Americans Are Focused on Covid-19 by Sandra Fulton, Common Dreams, March 16, 2020 Article: Biden falsely says Trump administration rejected WHO coronavirus test kits (that were never offered) by Jon Greenberg and Victoria Knight, Politifact, March 16, 2020 Article: Central banks, the virus, and inequality By Nomi Prins, Asia Times, March 14, 2020 Article: Oscar Launches First Testing Center Locator for COVID-19, Oscar, March 13, 2020 Article: Cleveland Clinic-Oscar Health partnership shows success in concierge medicine by Mary Vanac, Modern Healthcare, March 9, 2020 Article: 5 U.S. cities to start testing patients with flu-like symptoms for coronavirus by Erika Edwards, NBC News, February 14, 2020 Additional Resources Vote Results: FINAL VOTE RESULTS FOR ROLL CALL 102, Families First Coronavirus Response Act, March 14, 2020 Vote Results: FINAL VOTE RESULTS FOR ROLL CALL 98, USA FREEDOM Reauthorization Act, March 12, 2020 State Advisory: COVID-19 Sentinel Surveillance, Disease Outbreak Control Division, State of Hawaii, Department of Health Disease Outbreak Control Division Event Update March 6, 2020: City of Austin Cancels SXSW March Events, SXSW Homepage Thrive Capitol Sound Clip Sources Interview: The coronavirus could kill millions of Americans: ‘Do the math,’ immunization specialist says by William Feuer, CNBC, March 19, 2020 Interview: Failure to identify, isolate coronavirus infections puts U.S. on dark path, MSNBC, March 18, 2020 Interview: Bill Ackman's plea to President Donald Trump to save U.S. from coronavirus' economic destruction, CNBC, March 18, 2020 Briefing: Coronavirus Task Force Briefing, White House, March 18, 2020 Speakers Deborah Birx: White House Coronavirus Task Force Coordinator ** Was the AIDS Ambassador during the Obama administration Transcript: 35:00 Deborah Birx:So the test kits that we put out last week through the approval, the rapid movement of that meeting that President Trump called less than two weeks ago, that has resulted in bringing our private sector to the table, because the tests and the platform that was out there could only run between four and 12 tests per platform per day. We've now moved into platforms that can run basically 10's of thousands of tests per day. So the reason I'm grateful for your question, because it allows me to point out that of course then there was a backlog. There were individuals who had been tested, who hadn't had their specimen run because of the slow throughput. It's now in a high speed platform. So we will see the number of people diagnosed dramatically increase over the next four to five days. I know some of you will use that to raise an alarm that we are worse than Italy because of our slope of our curve. To every American out there, it will be five to six days worth of tests being run in 24 to 48 hours, so our curves will not be stable until sometime next week. 36:25 The reason I talked about Thermo Fisher yesterday is because their platform is in 2,000 laboratories. They're the ones that are putting out the million tests this week that will solve the issue that Atlanta and others have brought up. 41:30 When you look at China and South Korea data and you look what China and South Korea did, you can see that their curves are not only blunted outside of Wu Han. So the Chinese areas outside of Wu Han blunted curve and South Korea blunted curve, if you look at their curve today, there are ready on the far end of their epidemic curve. Of course, none of those countries are fully back to work. And so that's what we worry about, too. 42:30 Don't expose yourself to surfaces that could have had the virus on it, for which on hard surfaces, I know we had the cardboard issue about shipping, hard surfaces not shown, in fabric as much or in cardboard, but hard surface transmission. Video: Chris Cuomo: Coronavirus scares me as a parent, Cuomo Prime Time, CNN, March 17, 2020 Video: NBC Nightly News Broadcast (Full) - March 17th, 2020, NBC Nightly News, NBC, March 17, 2020 Briefing: Coronavirus Task Force Briefing, White House, March 17, 2020 Transcript: 58:50 Anthony Fauci: Now you could see the virus going up and up and your effect your work, what you're trying to do, may actually be having an effect, but you may not see it because it'll still be going up. And as you're trying to implement your interference with the virus, you may not realize that you're actually interfering and you'll say, wait a minute, it's still going up. What's going on? You've done nothing. But you don't know whether it would do this versus that. So the answer to your question, it probably would be several weeks and maybe longer before we know whether we're having an effect. It may be at the end of the day, we'll see a curve that would have been way way up. But I wouldn't like put us to task every few days. Well, wait a minute, it's going up. Is it working or not? That would be really misleading if we do that. News Conference: World Health Organization Coronavirus News Conference, World Health Organization, March 16, 2020 Watch on Youtube Speakers: Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus: Director General of the World Health Organization Transcript: Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus: But the most effective way to prevent infections and save lives is breaking the chains of transmission. And to do that, you must test and isolate. You cannot fight a fire blindfolded and we cannot stop this pandemic if we don't know who is infected. We have a simple message for all countries. Test, test, test. Test every suspected case, and if they test positive, isolate them and find out who they have been in close contact with up to two days before they developed symptoms and test those people too. Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus: WHO advises that all confirmed cases, even mild cases, should it be isolated in health facilities to prevent transmission and provide adequate care. But we recognize that many countries have already exceeded their capacity to care for mild cases in dedicated health facilities. In that situation, countries should prioritize all their patients and those with underlying conditions. Some countries have expanded their capacity by using stadiums and gyms to care for mild cases with C-Vid and critical cases cared for in hospitals. Another option is for patients with mild disease to be isolated and cared for at home. Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus: Both the patient and their caregivers should wear a medical mask when they are together in the same room. The patient should sleep in a separate bedroom, two others, and use a different bathroom. Assign one person to care for the patient. Ideally, someone who is in good health and has no underlying conditions. The caregiver should wash their hands after any contact with their patient or their immediate environment. People infected with Covid-19 can still infect others after they stop feeling sick. So this measures should continue for at least two weeks after symptoms disappear. Visitors should not be allowed until the end of this period. Interview: Dr. Fauci: 'Possible' that millions could die in US, CNN, March 15, 2020 Video: Former CDC director: Potential coronavirus death toll could be over 1 million, Fox News, Mach 13, 2020 Hearing: Coronavirus Preparedness and Response, United States House Committee on Oversight and Reform, March 12, 2020 Watch on Youtube Witnesses: Dr. Anthony Fauci: Director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Disease at the National Institutes of Health Dr. Robert Redfield: Director of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention Dr. Robert Kadlec: Assistant Secretary for Preparedness and Response at the Department of Health and Human Services Transcript: 17:30 Robert Kadlec: You're correct that there is a great demand for personal protective equipment, particularly respirators, N-95 respirators. There we have a limited supply in our Strategic National Stockpile. Annually, about 350 million respirators are used. Only a small percentage of that is used by the healthcare industry about 35 million. And we believe that the demand for that could be several hundred million to up to a billion in a six month period. So it's a very high demand item. There has been a strategy to basically, and CDC has provided guidance on reuse, how can we use them longer. We've got the manufacturers and how they can surge more and many of them are doing that. And domestically even though some of their sources for product, finished product is from overseas like China. And then the third thing is is what can we do to basically use masks that haven't been used for the medical area, non medical N-95s could be used in that fashion. And FDA is basically certified through an Emergency Use Authorization that N-95s respirators used in manufacturing and in mining and in construction could be used in healthcare settings. They are very similar but not the same, but could be used that way. And the only thing that's keeping a lot of manufacturers from selling those masks to the broader healthcare population is because of liability provisions or lack of liability protections. There is the Public Readiness Emergency Preparedness Act that was passed in 2005. That basically indemnifies manufacturers, distributors and users of these masks, or pardon me, of users of products that are defined as a device or as a covered countermeasure. When we saw - I happened to be on the staff that did that legislation in 2005. We did not consider a situation like this today. We thought about vaccines. We thought about therapeutics, we never thought about respirators of being our first and only line of defense for healthcare workers. So we think that's a very important capacity and capability to include language or modify the Prep Act to include language, to include respiratory protective devices for that purpose, and that's a significant critical pass now item. 20:25 Robert Redfield: There's also clinical medicine, the practice of clinical medicine, the private sector, that actually tries to provide diagnostics so we can diagnose diabetes or anemia, lots of different diseases. And it's really the engagement of the private sector to get these tests into clinical medicine, which is it's a partnership between the private sector. CDC usually develops the test first, gets it out into the health departments to do surveillance. And then the private sector comes in to provide the clinical tools we need to basically diagnose patients, not the surveillance of the community. 23:53 Rep. Debbie Wasserman-Shultz (FL): We need to have someone in charge of making sure that as many people as possible across this country have access to getting tested as soon as possible. Who is that person? Is it you? Is it the vice president? Can you give us the name of who can guarantee that anyone, but especially healthcare workers who need to be tested can be. Robert Redfield: As I tried to explain to Congressman Green, from the CDC perspective... Rep. Debbie Wasserman-Shultz (FL): Okay, I'm asking for a name. Who is in charge of making sure that people who need to get tested, who are indicated to be tested can get a test? Who? Robert Redfield: Yeah, I was trying to say that the responsibility that I have at CDC is make sure all the public health labs have it and they can make the judgment on how they want to use it. Rep. Debbie Wasserman-Shultz (FL): But they're referencing people who have been advised to be tested to you and they've been turned down. So is it you? Robert Redfield: As I said, I'm going to look into the specifics of that. Rep. Debbie Wasserman-Shultz (FL): So basically, you're saying - I'm claiming my time - basically, you seem to be saying because you can't name any one specifically, that there's no one specifically in charge that we can count on to make sure that people who need to be tested healthcare workers or anyone else, there's not one person that can ensure that these tests can be administered yes or no. Anthony Fauci: My colleague is looking at me to answer. Here we go. Okay. All right. So the system does not, is not really geared to what we need right now. What you are asking for, that is a failing. Rep. Debbie Wasserman-Shultz (FL): A failing. Anthony Fauci: Yeah, it is a failing. Let's admit it. The fact is the way the system was set up, is that the public health component, that doctor that Dr. Redfield was talking about was a system where you put it out there in the public and a physician asks for it and you get it. The idea of anybody getting it easily, the way people in other countries are doing it, we're not set up for that. Do I think we should be? Yes, but we're not. Rep. Debbie Wasserman-Shultz (FL): Okay. That's really disturbing and I appreciate the information. 30:25 Rep. Ralph Norman (SC): I just met with a company, a Fortune 500 company, who is looking at testing their employees as they come in the door. And yet they're concern was one, frivolous lawsuits, class action suits by trial lawyers, HIPAA violations, health violations. You know, you just can't take temperatures of people without our type getting into all types of issues. The question I was asked by this employer do I give do I take the risk of when you walk in that door, no symptoms, you just see what, whether it's a temporary or whether it's asking questions, they're petrified of the outcome if they do that. They're also petrified of somebody having the virus when they walk in the door and then being held liable if they in fact, and this company has 500 employees that do shifts, work in three shifts. 32:00 Anthony Fauci: There are two types of situations. Dr. Redfield described. One, which was the classic tried and true CDC based situation where it's based on the doctor-patient interaction. Where a doctor, as a patient who wants to get tested for cause they're sick, they've been exposed or what have you. That works well. The system right now as it exists, of doing a much broader capability of determining what the penetrance is in society right now, is not operational at all for us. And what the CDC is doing now is that they're taking various cities, they started with six, and then they're going to expand it, where they're not going to wait for somebody to ask to get tested. They're going to get people who walk into an emergency room or a clinic with an influenza like illness and test them for coronavirus. You You do that on a broader scale throughout the country, you'll start to get a feel for what the penetrance is. And that's a different process. Unfortunately, our system from the beginning was not set up to do that. And that's the reason why we're not able to answer the broader questions of how many people in the country are infected right now. We hope to get there reasonably soon. But we're not there now. 36:30 Anthony Fauci: In the spirit of staying ahead of the game, right now, we should be doing things that separate us as best as possible from people who might be infected. And there are ways to do that. You know, we use the word social distancing, but most people don't know what that means, for example, crowds. We just heard that they're going to limit access to the capital. That's a really, really good idea to do. I know you like to meet and press the flesh with your constituencies. I think not now, I think you need I need I think you need to really cool it for a while because we should we should be practicing mitigation, even in areas that don't have a dramatic increase. I mean, everyone looks to Washington State. They look to California, they're having an obvious serious problem. But their problem now may be our problem tomorrow. 40:30 Anthony Fauci: Yeah, I would put the social distancing and other issues of preventing infection ahead of the testing but the testing is very important. 43:30 Anthony Fauci: When we were looking at the pure public health aspect of it, we found that 70% of the new infections were coming from the - new infections in the world, were coming from Europe, that cluster of countries. And of the 35 states 30 out of 35 of them, who were more recently getting infections, were getting them from them. That was predominantly from Italy, and from France and from Germany. So when the discussion was, why don't we just start off and say, banned from Italy, we were told by the State Department and others that in fact, you really can't do that because it's sort of like one country, the whole European thing. And the reason I believe that that the UK was left out, was because there is a difference between ease of translate of transportation between the European countries. Rep. Peter Welch (VT): Okay, that's Brexit. Thank you. 47:40 Rep. Chip Roy (TX): Last night, I spoke on the phone with Dr. Shuren at the FDA and got some updates on some of the testing information because I've wanted to talk to somebody at the FDA. And my understanding and response from them. And he's not here to testify. So I want to validate this was that he talked about upwards of 2 million tests. Those aren't individual test kits, but the ability to test 2 million times. We're coming to availability this week, 3 million more in the next week, and that we've got a rather large and robust testing ability coming to market shortly that we've got private enterprises producing these tests. We've got universities, state public officials that have the ability to test and that we are now getting to the place of scalability to ramp up and have a fairly sizable large amount of testing ability in our robust federal system. Would you agree Dr. Redfield that that is the trajectory of where we're headed. Robert Redfield: Since March 2, there's been, I've been told over 4 million tests now have entered the market. But what I want to say the test isn't whole answer. You need people to do the test laboratory equipment to do the test. You need some of the reagents that actually now are in short supply. To prepare the test. You need the swabs to take the test so we're working very hard with the FDA to make sure all these different pieces, you know right now the actual test to do this coronavirus test. I think we have the test in the marketplace. The question is how to how to actually operationalize them and I think that's what Tony and I are saying is the big challenge right now. 53:30 Robert Redfield: We need to use our efforts right now to really continue to try to contain this outbreak with the cases we have and let the public health system focus on that around those clusters, do aggressive mitigation. But if we continue to have individuals coming in to seed new communities, all through the country, it will be very hard for us to get control of this. 55:45 Robert Redfield: If someone's in self-isolation or self-quarantine at home. They're being monitored for symptoms, if they, if they do become symptomatic, they get a comprehensive medical evaluation and then obviously, either returned to home isolation if it's that that's the medical appropriate decision for them, that it's just a sore throat. Or if they look like they need medical attention, they're going to get hospitalized and managed in isolation. Rep. Robin Kelly (IL):And then how those costs covered for a private hospital, the CDC cover their out of pocket cost or how does that work? Robert Redfield: Well, the department has the authority to reimburse those. Okay, CDC has the authority The department has authority, we're working now to determine the best way to accomplish that. 58:40 Robert Redfield: We really are in a mode that this is time for big events like March Madness, big events like these big sports arena things to take a pause for the next four to six to eight weeks while we see what happens with this outbreak in this nation. 1:17:30 Rep. Mark Green (TN): On the South Korean test, we've had a lot of comparisons of how they've done testing much faster than us. I have a letter from the FDA that says the South Korean test, I want to make sure this is on the record, the South Korean test is not adequate. A vendor wanted to purchase it and sell it and use it in the United States. And the FDA said I'm sorry, we will not even do an Emergency Use Authorization for that test. So I have that letter if anybody wants to see it. 1:21:00 Anthony Fauci: So, the Chinese didn't have to send us the virus. They just published the sequence on a public database. We knew the gene that would code for the protein that we wanted to make a vaccine. So all we did was pulled the information right out of the database. We made it synthesize that very easily, overnight, stuck it in to a platform and started making it. And we said at that point that it would take, I would say, two to three months to have it in the first human. I think we're going to do better than that. And I would hope within a few weeks, we may be able to make an announcement to you all, that we've given the first shot to the first person. Having said that, I want to make sure people understand that I say that over and over and over again. That doesn't mean we have a vaccine that we could use. I mean, it's record time to get a tested. It's going to take a year to a year and a half to really know if it works. 1:22:57 Rep. Rashida Talib (MI): You know, earlier this week Congress's attending fish's physician told the Senate that he expects between 70 to 150 million people to eventually contract the coronavirus in the United States. Dr. Croce is is he wrong? Anthony Fauci: Yeah, I think we really need to be careful with those kinds of predictions because that's based on a model. So what the model is, all models are as good as the assumptions that you put into the model. So if you say that this is going to be the likely percent of individuals. Rep. Rashida Talib (MI): So what can we do to define it, is it testing? Anthony Fauci: No, no, it's unpredictable. So testing now is not going to tell you how many cases you're going to have. What will tell you what you're going to have will be how you respond to it with containment and mitigation. 1:24:00 Anthony Fauci: When people do model they say, 'This is the lower level. This is the higher level.' And what the press picks up is the higher level and they'll say you could have as many as... 1:24:15 Anthony Fauci: Remember, the model during the Ebola outbreak said you could have as many as a million. We didn't have a million. 1:28:35 Rep. Katie Porter (CA): Anthony Fauci: Dr. Kadlec, for someone without insurance, do you know the out of pocket cost of a complete blood count test? Robert Kadlec: No, ma'am not not immediately. Rep. Katie Porter (CA): Do you have a ballpark? Robert Kadlec: No, with a copay, no ma'am? Rep. Katie Porter (CA): No, the out of pocket, just the typical cost. Robert Kadlec: I do not ma'am. Rep. Katie Porter (CA): Okay. A CBC typically costs about $36. What about the out of pocket costs for a complete metabolic panel? Robert Kadlec: That would have to pass on that as well. Rep. Katie Porter (CA): You have any idea? You wanna take a ballpark? Robert Kadlec: I would say $75. Okay. Rep. Katie Porter (CA): 58. Robert Kadlec: Getting closer. Rep. Katie Porter (CA): How about flu A, the flu A test? Robert Kadlec: Again, I'll take a guess at about maybe 50? Rep. Katie Porter (CA): 43. Flu... This is like the prices right? Flu B? Robert Kadlec: Too high again, I would probably say 44. Rep. Katie Porter (CA): That's good. How about the cost of an ER visit for someone identified as high severity and threat? Robert Kadlec: I'm sorry, ma'am, what was the question here? Rep. Katie Porter (CA): How about the cost of an ER visit for somebody identified as having high severity or high threat? Robert Kadlec: That's probably about three to $5,000. Rep. Katie Porter (CA): Okay, that is $1,151. It this all totals up to $1,331. That's assuming they aren't kept in isolation. Isolation can add up for one family already $4,000, and fear of these costs are going to keep people from being tested, from getting the care they need and from keeping their community safe. We live in a world where 40% of Americans cannot even afford a $400 unexpected expense. We live in a world where 33% of Americans put off medical treatment last year. And we have a $1,331 expense, conservatively, just for testing for the coronavirus. Doctor Dr. Redfield, do you want to know who has the corona virus and who doesn't? Robert Redfield: Yes. Rep. Katie Porter (CA): Not just rich people, but everybody who might have a virus. Robert Redfield: All of America. Rep. Katie Porter (CA): Dr. Redfield, are you familiar with 42 CFR 71.3130? Excuse me? 42 CFR 71.30. The Code of Federal Regulations that applies to the CDC. 42 CFR 71.30. Robert Redfield: I think if you could frame that what it talks about that would help ma'am that would really... Rep. Katie Porter (CA): Dr. Redfield I'm I'm pretty well known as a questioner on the Hill from for not tipping my hand. I literally communicated to your office last night and received confirmation that I was going to be asking you about 42.7, 42 CFR 71.30. This provides 'Director may authorize payment for the care and treatment of individuals subject to medical exam quarantine isolation and conditional release.' Robert Redfield: That I know about. And my office did tell me that I just didn't know the numbers, ma'am, Congressman. Rep. Katie Porter (CA): Great. So you're familiar, Dr. Redfield, will you commit to the CDC right now, using that existing authority to pay for diagnostic testing free to every American regardless of insurance? Robert Redfield: Well, I can say that we're gonna do everything to make sure everybody can get the care they need. Rep. Katie Porter (CA): No, not good enough. We're claiming my time. Dr. Redfield, you have the existing authority. Will you commit right now to using the authority that you have, vested in you, under law, that provides a public health emergency for testing, treatment, exam, isolation, without cost, yes or no? Robert Redfield: What I'm going to say is I'm going to review it in detail with... Rep. Katie Porter (CA): No, I'm claiming my time, Doctor Redfield respectfully. I wrote you this letter along with my colleagues, Rosa Delora. And Lauren Underwood, Congressman Underwood and Congressman Delora. We wrote you this letter one week ago. We quoted that existing authority to you and we laid out this problem. We asked for a response yesterday, the deadline and the time for delay has passed. Will you commit to invoking your existing authority under 42 CFR 71.30 to provide for coronavirus testing for every American regardless of insurance coverage. Robert Redfield: What I was trying to say is that CDC is working with HHS now to see how we operationalize that. Rep. Katie Porter (CA): Dr. Redfield. I hope that that answer weighs heavily on you, because it is going to weigh very heavily on me and on every American family. Robert Redfield: Our intent is to make sure every American gets the care and treatment they need at this time with this major epidemic and I'm currently working with HHS to see how to best operationalize it. Rep. Katie Porter (CA): Dr. Redfield, you don't need to do any work to operationalize. You need to make a commitment to the American people. So they come in to get tested. You could operationalize the payment structure tomorrow. Robert Redfield: I think you're an excellent questioner. So my answer is yes. Rep. Katie Porter (CA): Excellent. Everybody in America hear that. You are eligible to go get tested for Coronavirus and have that covered regardless of insurance. Please, if you believe you have the illness, follow precautions, call first. Do everything the CDC and - Dr. Fauci, God bless you for guiding Americans in this time. But do not let a lack of insurance worsen this crisis. 1:42:30 Rep. John Sarbanes (MD): If somebody got the virus, three, four weeks ago, just thought they had the flu or a bad cold or something recovered from it. They're now essentially immune from getting the virus again. Is that correct? Anthony Fauci: We haven't formally proved it, but it is strongly likely that that's the case. 1:43:00 Anthony Fauci: If you do an antibody test, if you wait weeks and months after you've recovered, the antibody tests will tell you whether that person was formerly infected with Corona virus. 1:43:50 Anthony Fauci: So let's say I get infected. And whether I get sick or not, I clear the infection from my body. I do two tests 24 hours apart, which is the standard to say, I'm no longer infected. A month and a half from now you do an antibody test, and that test is positive. I am not transmitting to anybody, because my body has already cleared the virus. So even though my antibody test says you were infected a month or two ago, right now, if there's no virus in me, I am not going to be able to transmit it to anyone. 1:45:30 Rep. Jimmy Gomez (CA): Will a travel ban like this have significant impact on reducing the community spread of the coronavirus. That is cases that are already in the United States. Anthony Fauci: Yes, that is the the answer is a firm yes. And that was the reason, the rationale, the public health rationale why that recommendation was made. Because if you look at the numbers, it's very clear that 70% of the new infections in the world are coming from that region from Europe, seeding other countries. First thing, second thing of the 35 or more states that have infections, 30 of them now and most recently have gotten them from a travel related case in that region. So it was pretty compelling that we needed to turn off the source from that region. 2:02:10 Robert Redfield: CDC did manufacture the original CDC tests that we used - the CDC. And we also manufactured the initial test we sent out to the states, it's an IDT manufactured kits after that. Hearing: Coronavirus Preparedness and Response, United States House Committee on Oversight and Reform, March 11, 2020 Watch on Youtube Witnesses: Dr. Anthony Fauci: Director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Disease at the National Institutes of Health Dr. Robert Redfield: Director of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention Dr. Robert Kadlec: Assistant Secretary for Preparedness and Response at the Department of Health and Human Services Transcript: 28:20 Anthony Fauci: In the next, I would say four weeks or so, we will go into what is called a phase one clinical trial to determine if one of the candidates, and there are more than one candidate. There are probably at least 10 or so that are at various stages of development. The one that we've been talking about is one that involves a platform called messenger RNA, but it really serves as a prototype for other types of vaccines that are simultaneously being developed. Getting it into phase one in a matter of months is the quickest that anyone has ever done, literally in the history of vaccinology. However, the process of developing a vaccine is one that is not that quick. So we go into phase one, it'll take about three months to determine if it's safe. That'll bring us three or four months down the pike. And then you go into an important phase called phase two to determine if it works. Since this is a vaccine, you don't want to give it to normal healthy people with the possibility that A, it will hurt them and B, that it will not work. So the phase of determining if it works is critical. That will take at least another eight months or so. So when you've heard me say we would not have a vaccine that would even be ready to start a deploy for a year to a year and a half, that is the timeframe. Now, anyone who thinks they're going to go more quickly than that, I believe will be cutting corners. That would be detrimental. 30:10 Anthony Fauci: The timeline for therapy is a little bit different. The reason it is different is that you're giving this candidate therapy to someone who was already ill. So the idea of risks and how quickly you determine if and when it works is much more quickly than giving a lot of vaccine to normal people and determine if you protect them. There are a couple of candidates that are now already in clinical trial, some of them in China and some of them right here in the United States, particularly in some of the trials that'd be done in some of our clinical centers, including the University of Nebraska. It is likely that we will know if they work in the next several months. 48:22 Rep. Carolyn Maloney (NY): Is that is the worst yet to come, Dr. Fauci? Anthony Fauci: Yes, it is. Rep. Carolyn Maloney (NY): Can you elaborate? Anthony Fauci: Well, whenever you have an outbreak that you can start seeing community spread, which means by definition that you don't know what the index cases and the way you can approach it is by contact tracing. When you have enough of that, then it becomes a situation where you're not going to be able to effectively and efficiently contain it. Whenever you look at the history of outbreaks, what you see now in an uncontained way, and although we are containing it in some respects, we keep getting people coming in from the country that are travel related. We've seen that in many of the States that are now involved. And then when you get community spread, it makes the challenge much greater. So I can say we will see more cases and things will get worse than they are right now. How much worse we'll get will depend on our ability to do two things, to contain the influx of people who are infected, coming from the outside and the ability to contain and mitigate within our own country. 49:45 Anthony Fauci: Looking forward right now, as commercial entities get involved in making a large amount of tests getting variable. When you do two aspects of testing, one, a person comes in to a physician and ask for a test because they have symptoms or a circumstance which suggests they may be infected. The other way to do testing is to do surveillance where you go out into the community and not wait for someone to come in and ask for a task, but you actively pro get proactively get a test. We are pushing for that and as Bob will, Dr. Redfield will tell you that the CDC has already started that in six Sentinel cities and we'll expand that in many more cities. But you're absolutely correct. We need to know how many people to the best of our ability are infected. As we say, under the radar screen. 51:20 Robert Redfield: CDCs role in this was we very rapidly, within almost seven to 10 days, developed a test from an unknown pathogen once we had the sequence. And we did that because we wanted to get eyes on at CDC so the health departments across this nation can send samples to us and we would test them. Secondly, we rapidly tried to expand that and scale it up with a contractor so each public health lab in this country would have that test. During that process of quality control, we found out one of the reagents wasn't working appropriately and we had to modify that with the FDA. That took several weeks to get that completed, but the test was always available in Atlanta if you sent the sample to us. So there never was a time when a health department could not get a test. They had to send it to Atlanta. Now our health departments have 75,000 tests. Most health departments now over 75 health departments have the test, but the other side. Rep. Carolyn Maloney (NY): How many tests are we planning to produce in the United States? Robert Redfield: Well from a public health point of view, we've put out 75,000 the other side, as Dr. Fauci said, which is really not what CDC does traditionally, is to get the medical private sector to have testing for patients. And when the Vice President brought all the testing companies to the White House last week, we got enormous cooperation for the mall to work together. And as we sit here today, Quest and Lab Corp are now offering this test in their doctor's offices throughout this country. But it's not for an individual just to take a test. They need to go see a healthcare professional having an assessment determine whether a test is indicated and then get that test. 1:08:00 Robert Redfield: The other side of the mission is the clinical mission. And I think that's the concern of most American citizens. How do I get evaluated? And again, that really has been worked through the private sector. It wasn't really the public health lead for CDC to get a laboratory test, but I will say that the test we did develop, we published and let everybody use it. They could redevelop it. There was regulatory release. So any CLIA certified lab, according to the FDA was given relief. They could develop the test just like we did and they could use it. And some universities have done that. We also were, was released to IDT, the manufacturer that made our tests for public health purposes. They were given the regulatory relief to actually make that test and sell it to hospitals. And that's the 1 million, 3 million tests that people referred to that are rolling out for that side. 1:17:00 Robert Kadlec: I'm looking at particularly the things that we need for this outbreak right now and I just want to highlight the issues around personal protective equipment. Much of it is sourced from overseas, some of it is domestically manufactured and yes, we could have spot shortages. We're working with different companies in different sectors to see, to enhance both their increased capacity here domestically, as well as obtaining supplies overseas, from overseas unaffected areas to meet the demand. The most important demand is with healthcare workers, ensuring they have the respiratory protection and barrier protection so they can see and treat patients without the risk of getting infected and being lost to their, to the cause. 1:29:55 Robert Redfield: Yeah. So for the coronavirus right now, for example, in Italy, the average age of death is over the age of 80. Most of the deaths that we've seen are over the age of 70. 1:36:20 Robert Redfield: The CDC developed this test for the United States public health system. We did not develop this test for all of clinical medicine. The test for clinical medicine we count on the private sector to work together with the FDA to bring those tests to bear. 1:40:25 Anthony Fauci: At least from my experience, social media can often be as detrimental as it is helpful. That's the reason why, sir. I think the first question that you asked would be the one to go to the source of the data CDC, and I'm not CDC, but I'm saying CDC is a data-driven organization, and if you really want the facts and the data, I would just go to cdc.gov. 1:43:15 Rep. Jamie Raskin (MD): I want to quickly clear up a few things that have been said over the course of this process. One was by the President, in early February when he said, 'it looks like by April, you know, in theory when it gets a little warmer, it miraculously goes away.' Is there any scientific reason to believe that? Anthony Fauci: The basis for any surmising that that might happen is based on what we see every year with influenza, which actually as you get to March and April and May, it actually goes way down and other non novel coronavirus but common cold coronaviruses often do that. So for someone to at least consider that that might happen is reasonable, but, underline, but we do not know what this virus is going to do. We would hope that as we get to warmer weather, it would go down, but we can't proceed under that assumption. We've got to assume that it's going to get worse and worse and worse. Rep. Jamie Raskin (MD): Okay. 1:47:30 Rep. Jamie Raskin (MD): I hear from constituents who are having flu like symptoms, they want to know what should they do, what should they do? Robert Redfield: Well, it's Dr. Fauci said, the first thing I would do is to tell them to contact their healthcare provider or their emergency room and tell them they're concerned. They may have Coronavirus infection and then follow their instructions to where to get the test right. And then proceed with getting the appropriate clinical evaluation. Rep. Jamie Raskin (MD): Okay. So they should call someone before they go in anywhere. Robert Redfield: Well, we'd like to do that because if you really think you're infected, we're trying to avoid someone to walk into a 200 person, a hundred person emergency room. First is just to call in advance, and then they'll arrange exactly how they're going to get to test, how they're going to see the patient. They're going to be prepared when that patient comes to the emergency room, that they're going to be able to isolate them, get them tested, get them properly evaluated. 1:57:20 Rep. Harley Rouda (CA): Without test kits, is it possible that those that have been susceptible to influenza might have been miscategorized as to what they actually had? That it's quite possible that they actually had a covid-19. Robert Redfield: The standard practice is the first thing you do is test for influenza. So if they had influenza, they would be positive. Rep. Harley Rouda (CA): But only if they were tested. So if they weren't tested, we don't know what they had. Robert Redfield: Correct. Rep. Harley Rouda (CA): Okay. And if somebody dies from influence, are we doing post-mortem testing to see whether it was influenza or whether it was Covid-19? Robert Redfield: There is a surveillance system of death from pneumonia that the CDC has. It's not in every city, every state, every hospital. Rep. Harley Rouda (CA): So we could have people in the United States dying for what appears to be influenza, when in fact it could be the Coronavirus or Covid-19. Robert Redfield: Some cases have been actually diagnosed that way in the United States today. 2:00:10 Anthony Fauci: If you look at the curves of outbreaks historically that assembled it to this, the curve looks like this and then it goes up exponentially and that's the reason why it depends on how you respond now. So if we wait till we have many, many more cases, we will be multiple weeks behind. You know, I use the analogy at the press conference yesterday and I'll use it today. It's the old metaphor that the Wayne Gretzky approach, you know you skate not to where the puck is. but to where the puck is going to be. If we don't do very serious mitigation now, that what's going to happen is that we're going to be weeks behind and the horse is going to be out of the barn. And that's the reason why we've been saying even in areas of the country where there are no or few cases, we've got to change our behavior. We have to essentially assume that we are going to get hit. And that's why we talk about making mitigation and containment in a much more vigorous way. People ask, why would you want to make any mitigation? We don't have any cases. That's when you do it because we want this curve to be this and it's not going to do that unless we act now. 2:06:00 Rep. Bob Gibbs (OH) Robert Redfield: But also I see in the reports worldwide, we have a better than a 50% recovery rates. That true. Right. Robert Redfield: Right now, we'd say it's probably about 85%, sir. 2:06:45 Anthony Fauci: The end of the day. If you look at historically, for example, the experience we've had with China, about 80% of them have disease that makes people sick, but they ultimately recover without substantial medical intervention. Transcript & Video: Transcript & Video: President Donald Trump Addresses The Nation On The Coronavirus Pandemic, By Colorado Public Radio Staff and The Associated Press, March 11, 2020 Cover Art Design by Only Child Imaginations Music Presented in This Episode Intro & Exit: Tired of Being Lied To by David Ippolito (found on Music Alley by mevio)

Well, fellow writers, when we recorded this we were just at the beginning of it all. It’s safe to say things have already changed—all of us have families at home, we’re all shut down, with noisy houses full of people trying in various ways to work online.We went from “trying to work anyway” through “I give up for a few days” and now we’re back to “trying to work anyway.” So this advice still applies—we’re setting small goals, giving ourselves schedules as best we can, and trying to strike that balance between cutting ourselves necessary slack and still trying to be who we want to be as writers. It’s true that this keeps happening: And when it does, we’re trying to find things we CAN do with absolutely zero attention span. Like share our friends’ books on Instagram. Or record a podcast about how crazy we feel. Which we will keep doing. So, same time, next week?Now’s actually a good time to check out our sponsor, Author Accelerator—get matched with a book coach, or send some of your forced isolation time becoming one! Here is a list of great writing-related resources that are all available for FREE. Those marked with F are great for fiction, M for memoir, and NF for nonfiction. Feel free to share them around!Author Accelerator's Writing Challenge – This mini course introduces you to the first six steps of our Blueprint for a Book process to help kickstart your next book or figure out what might be missing from your draft. F M NFThe Inside Outline course – We're offering our renowned course on how to use an Inside Outline to transform your story for FREE until the end of March. Take your book to the next level and propel your draft forward. Use the coupon code SPRING2020 at checkout. F MThe Outcome Outline course – The Inside Outline equivalent for nonfiction writers is the newest tool in our arsenal – and it can be yours for FREE. Use the coupon code SPRING2020 at checkout between now and April 1. NFWriting fun for families – Certified book coach Jen Braaksma put together some writing activities that you can download and use for yourself or with your kids.And for the aspiring book coach:Author Accelerator's The Basics of Book Coaching – This mini course introduces you to the world of book coaching, where it came from, who makes a good coach, and how you can get started, even if you've never edited before. If you've been thinking about dipping your toe in the water, why not now?We create transcripts of the podcast every week with the help of an AI. That means there are always mistakes. We usually try to clean them up, but I won’t lie. This one is particularly bad.Hey, fellow potential carriers. Welcome to our #Howtoworkanyway episode.Will it be the first of many, or outdated and boring in no time at all?We can only hope for the latter and probably do a lot of sighing, but hey, as long as we're all going uber virtual, let me suggest spending some of your screen time at authoraccelerator.com Get matched with a book coach, or look into becoming a book coach. The side gig many of us are perfect for, complete with social distancing. If you've got some unexpected downtime maybe now is a good time to set yourself up to do something new.That recording now it's recording. Yeah, in a... It is the part where I stare blank and so I remember what I supposed to be doing. Alright, let's start out award has...I'm gonna wrestle some papers. Okay, now one to it is a one-to-one OneNote. I'm delete.And this is a hanging Ting-A-team writing is the podcast about writing, all the things under all the circumstances, fiction, non-fiction, proposals, pitches emails. This is in short as I say a very weak the podcast about sitting down and getting your work done, and I'm justly I am the author of The Gift of Failure in the forthcoming addiction inoculation. That'll be out in 2021. and yeah, I write at various places including The New York Times, The oleic and The Washington Post and I'm seeing about the author of 30 old romance novels and my newest one is going to be called sure shot and it comes out in May, is an even number. And you gonna start saying 30, I don't know, or even a... Do you know... What do you know how many Suresh makes by the way, in?Okay, so I think it's amazing. It's an amazing number.Yes, we love it. Well, I am Jess Lahey.Yes, I come on. You guys know who I am, but that you... At the author of "How to Be a happier parent and of the novel, the chicken sisters coming out in June of 2020 and super excited about that one. I also write for a number of other publications occasionally including the New York Times, and we are recording this on a... Oh, I, 5th and the Ides of March indeed 20020, and the world has gone crazy. And so the title of this is so that you guys know because you all are listening is hashtag how to write.Anyway, I quick got a... At first, at first I really resisted this topic because I didn't think that I was a very good advertisement for it, it just took me twice as long to do the final edits on a project because that's what happens when you refresh the New York Times, home page all day long.Yeah, and as we've been talking all week anxiety was a problem, but then, while I sort of settled down and got to this place of...Okay, so this year is not going to go the way that I thought. And as we discussed this in March, we haven't been personally affected by everything that's happening yet, but still it requires a big attitude adjustment, and as we all know, writing through an attitude adjustment is pretty tricky.Actually, I think Jess and I would both differ with the... Haven't been personally effective. Yeah, for me, it's taken me. I'm finally getting to a good place today where I was in a holding pattern until I knew whether or not Is my speaking gigs. Were gonna be cancelled and for me I couldn't plan ahead until that happened, and people were taking really wanted to wait till the last minute to make those announcements. So for me, and because a lot of my travel is a domino effect in then I was scrambling to plan the travel from somewhere else instead of where I was supposed to be, but it's actually been a relief in a way in a... Now everything is cancelled for the most part, because I'm not having to constantly be playing catch up with. Okay, well, so what next? So this week has been really emotionally challenging for me, not only because of the financial problems I make. A large percent of the majority of my income was coming this month, so that's been an adjustment. But for me being able to get myself in the headspace of, of... Okay, well now is gonna be for at home.That really was a big adjustment, right? And when I said we weren't affected I meant we weren't coughing.Right, right, exactly. None of us is coughing but I think we should own here because they are universal and pretty gender neutral. The family challenges that we are dealing with Jess has been struggling to get a family member out of Europe, the struggling, but we are fortunate that we can do these things. I've got a house full of notes, my kids, but extra kids which I recognize is probably not gonna happen for very much longer, because everything major, major sporting events in their lives were cancelled this weekend. And also I, I don't know, I'm coping with parents that are not worried enough about this that are too far away for me to get to so I'm not very happy about that, but yeah, and it's stressful. Is this super, super stressful?So, not null. Wanted to do this so that you guys could help me. But I will say after like RNA refreshing the news constantly. I did finally today, managed to sort get my head background play. It's also the little voices in the my back of my head going. Or am I writing a book about the olden times?That's an interesting opening is it gonna be like, "Is it gonna be super-dated because nobody does anything this way I use, I don't think so. We're gonna get back to normal we are, we are we at a cantus people shake hands in your novel, they don't touch feet. I'm pretty sure they do. Shake is what's really interesting. That was a total game in my novel. People go to a football game. What's also really interesting from my perspective at my house full disclosure is that my husband is helping run the task force in Vermont that's doing incident. There's sort of this thing called Incident command. So, even when he's home, he's feeling these conference calls and his pager going off, constantly, and so my husband will not be able to stay home during this period. And so there's the added sort of thing, where I feel like, "Oh my gosh, I need to keep him as healthy as possible, and so I'm making sure we have healthy meals and making sure he gets enough sleep and the chaos that would be... That would especially once we get our other kid home the chaos that could happen in our house, can't really happen because we do have to keep someone on the straight and narrow, and healthy and going to work every day.So that's been interesting too.It's all... Yeah, interesting. These are the interesting side times for which a Chinese famously put in A, the I and I, because that's the best description for it. I love what you said the other day, Serena. Everything is different, nothing is different.And that's kind of, unfortunately, where we are at least for the moment. So I, through this topic out on our Facebook page a hashtag am writing on Facebook and I'm getting calls for and requests and commentary on basically the real nitty-gritty of this.Like, how are we doing this? If the kids get quarantined how are we moderating our news intake, how are we trying to maintain our focus? So, anybody got Serena? You sound like you kind of pulled it back together, do you have any good... Yeah, so... Or tips, launched something launches off. First of all, we're going to... And we never do this, just shut off the internet at our house for a few hours every day.You heard you say that you and I thought "Oh we're gonna need to do that too.Singapore's gonna be home, which they are sooner or later. I think I got an alert on my phone today, saying that I hit my internet usage had gone way up and I was like, Oh, that was a nice little alert to remind me that I need to keep the lid on that. So I love your idea, Serena.Well, I would just like to remind us because this comes up from time to time that when you're writing a book, there's a certain amount of cognitive dissonance that happens anyway. There's the world inside your book where you have to put your head and then there's the world of your family and everything else that's going on. And I'm constantly constantly struggling to maintain two realities at once. And now we've got a third one. It's like the life inside my house is actually not changed all that much yet, but... But the world is blowing up in various other ways. So now I feel like the burden just went out. 50% of all the things I have to keep track of and shutting off the internet for a few hours every day helps. It eliminates one of those vectors.I love it, I think that'll be a relief that sort of exhalation, that happens when first you panic and you're like, Wait, where to go and then you go.I-A...Oh, that's, that's kind of nice, yeah, it will also stop what is continually happening, for me, which is that I get my head into the space where I need to be. And then someone bursts in shrinking the nail just suspended its season and then I take a deep breath and I get my head back where it needed to be, and then someone burst in shrieking card against not going back to school until April. 26, literally I just don't you feel like you're just walking through your life carrying a box with a little punching glove, you're like... No, those cartoon punching glove. And every time I turn someone just punches me.And I think we all feel like that it's not and we're punching each other, it's not like I don't immediately grab my phone and text you guys the exact same thing. Somewhat date to me off, I forgot to pay at the grocery store yesterday because while I was paying one of my kids' opened up their phone and said, "Hey sections, I try to walk out. Oh yeah, it was like, "Oh no, I did not mean to do that I... Well, the economy is also gonna hit us a little bit. I feel so bad for anyone who's launching there once a year, once every two year or three year but a great now, yeah, because it's hard to... We have some people like that in the Facebook group. I-E and to get news it's hard to get attention versus stuff.Yeah, and you also feel bad for asking for that attention too. There's the guilt factor. Nobody likes to run around shouting about their own book all the time, but it's even harder when people are sick.Well, we're gonna meet, we need other things to talk about, right?If you've got a non-fiction book on a different topic, we're we need that and we certainly need escapist fiction, so sure if you're in that position, and you've got that book go ahead, you tell it tell us about it thoughtfully acknowledging and we may both be. Well, you're in, you will be 'cause sure shots coming out any minute.No, it's not your once a year thing, but I know well, so here's a thing. I just had to adjust my expectations and that was quite difficult 'cause I have real-time data about what distraction is doing to book sales. So we're recording this on a Sunday. Yesterday was a Saturday which is usually like the second best book selling day in the week for me and I was down 19%. week over week yesterday and the day before that was Friday, and I was down 22% week over week.So those are real numbers that are going to pile up and affect my bottom line eventually, but I'm... As you mentioned, sort of insulated because I have more than one release a year and that short shot is part of a series and the people who are reading that series are gonna probably wake up and see it in so there's some, there's a little less selling I have to do and I, in the book selling curve for me, than for other people, so I feel the most pain for those whose curve is movable. Well, and can I clarify for those who are not as familiar with how Serena cells or books and how we sell ebook? So if I wanted to get the information that Serena has available at our fingertips, I really can't because my publisher holds on to that information and even if I wanted to go through book scan or something, that's not all the information and it's behind, but because series, you could you could not Tortola. It's not necessarily super it accurate, but it's there. But I just wanted to clarify that because Serena is she's got a three is she is the publisher, so she has up-to-date, minute-minute data on her own book sales, which is really interesting to have. And for someone, especially like Serena who loves data, it's a teething to be able to look at... Well, the... There's this other one in yet. Go ahead, in economics called an inferior good and friends. I don't like to refer to us as inferior if I can help it, but an inferior good is something that people buy when they can't buy more expensive things. So the classic example of an inferior good in economics is bus tickets poor people buy more bus tickets than rich people in general, but books could in a pandemic, behave like an inferior good where people buy more of them because they can't buy the more expensive thing they want which is like a trip to Italy.Well, that would be nice. And I am hoping for that but we also have the problem of where the people are gonna hear about the books, right?So I am the once-a-year release at best and I'm not out tooth so I'm super hopeful that by June 30th, for one of a couple of possible reasons I will still be able to get out there and do my book tour and people will be wanting to grab books for their beach bags and they'll be going to the beach, but we don't know it. And this is the moment when book sellers would be ordering my book and book sellers are in big trouble.Independence, so that is definitely... I am not without I've got a stack of books that I've addressed to all the... And book stores in Kansas and a bunch of other ends. And I wrote the notes last week, and now I'm like, "Oh those are out of date now. The ease, not gonna send them. I guess I'll put a post-it on them or something, I don't know. Well, but they are like the world has changed dramatically.I'm still feeling helpful, but definitely a little bit of worry, and I guess... But here's a small...I'll probably do a little... Well, I do less launch related stuff.No, that would be bad because I think this is still... I have reason to think it could still go the way that I would like it to go, and if it doesn't, the social media stuff I will still need. I'm trying to see if there's a silver lining in which I get more time to work on the other new book.Yeah, I'm not really seeing that the entire...I'm planning to Here's a silver lining with all sports cancelled. I'm doing a lot less driving. That is actually... That is definitively more time. And since my kids are older, once I get them in the habit of doing something useful then, then yeah, it is more time and hey, you won't have to pick anyone up from school, perhaps in a couple of weeks.That's right, I just have to make sure they actually do their school work and deal with the fact that if there are three people trying to be in Zoom classrooms in my household, the US that I can record a podcast or going to be extremely slim and they'll all be running in, freaking, my Zoom class where we work because that person zoom as room is sucking up all the internet.Yeah, it's gonna be, it's gonna be good to one being a fine as we in a line at work anyway, yeah, but speaking of podcast, actually, this is really interesting and this is about how to work anyway because I was supposed to be on two podcasts next week that are in-person podcast. They sort of really pride themselves on being in-person podcasts and I... And it's still up in the air, but those probably are not gonna happen. So I have to say, we are so ahead of the curve because we tend to... We tend to record online, so we've been social distancing. Since the beginning. So, since for... It was cool, so that exactly.I have been wondering to myself whether as we record podcasts people are gonna want us to touch on this with the people that we're writing and listeners, I would love some input on this. I have a feeling that I'm gonna want my podcasts to be fairly virus-free. Yeah, but you also don't wanna sound like you were recording in some alternate reality which we were, and several upcoming podcast that you're gonna hear, and I'll probably say something at the top of the episode. I'm definitely gonna want my podcasts, to be non. I would prefer them not to be that punching right? I love that comes out of the box. So I think that's a good plan. The "Alans will strike there.I think we'll see as it plays out, but I think we wanna be able to talk about how people are managing to get their work done and stick with that, but try not to harp too much on the bad, the bad value.A year from now, and people are listening to the back list, they're like, "Oh yeah, then as the days... Yeah, that's a... Well, I got a say I'm very optimistic, I actually... Now that I'm making my mental shift away from... Honestly, I've talked about this on the podcast before. This was gonna be me on the road for the pretty much the entire month of April, and March in April, so now that I'm not once I know that I'm not gonna be... And PS, in the back of my mind, my kid, I still have one kid out of pocket, I need one more kid to come home before my brain can finally settle in to being able to work very well. But once that happens, I'm shifting to new book proposal, so that's been my plan to that was my plan A... But a lot faster now that's gonna happen a lot faster now I can move that up. And now that my edits are pretty much done for the substance abuse book, I can sort of mentally put that away for a little bit and make room for the new book. So in a way that's really exciting for me, I really... You know me, I love the deep dive into the research, and that's where I have to start with the book proposal, so that's where my brain is gonna be very much for the next couple of months, and my speaking stuff will get rescheduled. Maybe in the fall, we'll see, but for now I've gotta let that go and move on with what is rather than what I could have been. I have to let go with that regret in order to be present for the stuff that is on the table in front of me.And what you're basically saying is that goals episode we recorded so recently, so right, but I... Or definitely revisiting those things. And there's this temptation to look at those goals for the year and think what was the point of this? But of course, there was a really good point to that. And even if we all end up ripping that page right in half, it doesn't mean it wasn't a useful exercise for establishing our priorities and what we hope to get done.Absolutely, and that kind of attitude adjustment is what I'm trying to hang on to... I was just looking at my goals from March only, and I just added at the bottom, I get through March and April with sense of humor intact, because that soil... It's important that that is a very good goal.Yeah, I am thinking an interesting side thought about this, is that nothing about my work life or work goals changes because of this. There's nothing that I was previously expected to, other than a few small travel things, there's nothing that I was previously expected, to do that. I am now not expected to do. There's nothing, there's nothing that I should let go or put off everything stays the same, it's just I am going to have to look at it and go. Okay, well my time is going to be different because there is both the mental coping with this and then the... Yeah, when I have three kids to homeschooling, all day even, no matter what the schools provide that's gonna be... That's gonna be on us to some extent. So yeah, it's a revisiting but you might have to revisit with the project you're working on, too. Like I write pretty fluffy. Books and people keep saying... But we need your fluffy books. But the truth is, I don't know if I can be all that optimistic. And I a first kiss seen this week, right?I might have to pick up a different project, instead and shuffle some things around because I'm maybe not in the head space for the things that I thought I was going to be in the head space for.I always like there was a tweet or a text that you sent us one time about the fact that it was really, really hard to write a sex in when your kids were home from school, and in the next... So I can imagine that's the head of space, you have to be. And sometimes to write your books is not having a lot of clamor and kids around the house is not conducive to that, but I think not sticking this into our work is gonna be the emotions are gonna creep in. So, maybe choosing things that emotionally are gonna resonate, but we don't need an entire six months, from now, we're not gonna need the entire world to be nothing but essays about your experience with it.And nobody's gonna wanna take those... Let's just... Unless you have some... And I did have a particular experience and I did write an essay about it, but unless you have a particular expertise or something very particular going on the moment when anybody's gonna wanna hear about this has already expired, other than sort of in your own personal in your email if you have a weekly email or in your personal social media anyway, I think we have to sort of try not to let this take over what we're working on.Definitely, that's a personal journals are for... We can write about how we're grappling with all our stuff and our own personal writings all we want, but that does not mean that we need to have published 3000 essays on how, in personally coping with the loss of income and kids being a net right, so says they just are gonna have to be about something else.Yeah, it's a time, it's a time.Some of the stuff that I'm hearing on our Facebook group is get up is stuff we've talked about before. It's the same thing, I guess, this is just like writing during the Nanaimo and trying to do it during Thanksgiving when you have your whole family home, get up early. Take advantage of the small verse for me today, I was like, okay, an hour I just want an hour and I admit to watching. The clock but I didn't take any internet-connected. Well, I have my laptop, but I turned out the Tintern it was just an hour just in our... Just gonna do it our... And if you pull yourself back and pull yourself back and pull yourself back to it for an hour, you are going to progress and three months from now, two months from now, six months from now, whatever we're gonna wanna have progressed.Yeah, I was actually thinking today about how that works best for me and for me that means Writing deadlines that I self-imposed writing deadlines, and of course, I have very few, I have two book reviews, one that's due in two days, and one that's due in about a month, so I have those deadlines, but I think I'm gonna need to sit down and get back to my calendar and create some deadlines for myself around this book proposal so that I can feel like I'm staying on some sort of track rather than just floundering about and thinking. Oh, I have all this time to write because I'm actually home I need to have some structure, so self and post deadlines for me are my structure and sometimes that means and this is always a little risky for me but sometimes that means that I email my agent and I say look myself and post deadline to have this to you is X date and then I actually put it on my calendar, send X to my agent by this date and that helps keep me. And sometimes it's just telling you if I tell you A and Serena that I really wanna have this done by. Oh, could you ask me about this a week from Friday? That helps to... And I also observe the of this is a little bit like when summer descends upon one if when whatever if our kids are out of school and even for me with the disappearance of all the extra-curricular activities, what had been a fairly regimented schedule of every day there would be four or five very set things. So then I was slotting stuff in around it. That creates a structure for me, that I rely on more than I know.So when that structure suddenly disappears, it is entirely possible for an entire day to waffle away into nothingness. Because I didn't have to get someone to school at 8, and therefore did not have to sit down immediately when I got home to... So I'm thinking about ways to create to rebuild that schedule for me and probably for the other people in my house, and I think Serena, year two hours without the internet, is gonna be good. I'm thinking about putting together some daily extra... Well, I exercise every day anyway, but if I put it on the schedule and sort of they get something I have to work around, I think that is gonna help me.That's been tricky is a co-other interesting goals to set up my yoga studio that I like to go to with my IT every night with my husband and my kid. We've been going for the past couple weeks to get ourselves back into it and I'll get the whole family going to yoga again, which we love.Yoga studios, closed. So it turns out there are some great online options, and so I'm just having to sort of insist that we keep that routine up except we do it here, instead of out there. And I think that's gonna help me with my sanity too, 'cause it would be real easy to let that fall well and it weirdly, weirdly, might be better to find an option where you're actually watching something life like as it. We must all gather here to do this thing that we want. I mean, I'm just a... That would be better for me.So I'm trying to put things on my schedule that are at five, I'm doing this and at such and such, I'm doing that because that it, it gets my brain into that, working spine.There are various ways to do that live thing too, and it's been... It's nice 'cause like you feel like... Because the people are there in real time, if you have Peloton YouTube, there's some online yoga people in some online exercise, people that have these sort of real-time classes and it really makes you feel like you're actually there and present with those people as opposed to... Yeah, it's a good thing, I... Well, there's a community there going on which we're all desperately going to mean. Probably I was in a book club in New York City. Let's see, I left it 11 years ago, I guess, and I just got a text yesterday from my friend Barbara who said Listen, or doing book club on Zoom now and look, it's like six of the same people from 20 years ago. Are you in... And then all that to see. I was co... You're a genius.Okay, so that's a brilliant idea. Book clubs create virtual date with you and we have... You could have a resume writing club too. We could co-work and sit here with our laptops able to see each other and the various screens. That would be another way to do it. A co-working date or even a you know text somebody go and then text somebody stop every morning that would... Yeah, but that's really cool. I like that, I moved away from these women 10 and a half years ago, so I'm just so excited I have. I lost touch with them completely. So this will be one weird way that I get those friends back that I wasn't going to. Otherwise.Everybody started selling in a... Yeah, there it is. That's my first entry.Well, here's my... They're silver lining.Hopefully we will have more time. Yeah, red.I actually picked up with e-books yesterday just for that reason.Oh, I have picked up so many books, and I'm actually meeting a friend to have coffee at the bookstore while keeping six feet apart? In washing our hands and doing all the things because we wanna support the book store. I'm pretty sure I'll come home with a few more books that tell me what to buy, but have you guys...I guess this is kind of about like what are you buying the stock up because...Well, I can start, because I bought books yesterday, I bought a book, so when I was little, I was positive, absolutely positive that I was gonna be... As "Cetacean biologist, I was gonna be a whale scientist and I was obsessed with Wales, and I haven't read anything about whales in a long time and so I bought a book by this guy Nick Pinson, I hope I spelled that I pronounce that right. He's actually the curator of mammal of marine mammals and fossils at the Smithsonian Museum of Natural History, and he has a book called spying on whales, and it's about whales today and well fossils and all that kind of cool stuff. So I'm reading about whales I'm reading. I decided to listen yesterday when I was working in the woods, I was listening... Re-listening actually to Diana NI ads book, find a way about when she swam across the from "orest Cuba and it's an incredible, incredible story and I read it, I listen to it, first a long, long time ago.So there's sort of a... I'm noting an escapist kind go other places, kind of thing, because if I'm gonna be in my house and in my yard, for the most part, I wanna be other places I wanna be underwater with whales, and I wanna be in Florida women to Cuba, that kind of thing. So, I'm definitely on an escapist jag at the moment, other places.Well, speaking of the box with the punching glove in IT, I flipped over my phone, to look at the name of a Bo and I just got a text that was game cancelled a night, let me know what to do, I just stop. People just stole just a ton.Okay, I'm still looking for the book name because I got sucked. So, I am a... Or know what you got. I'm about to buy a copy of the mirror and the light the new Hilary Mantel. Oh, I wanna hear what you have to say because I'm really excited about that too.You know I'll probably read it first, because he has been checking her website every month for five years, but eventually, yeah, I can't wait. Okay, well, just that these are things that I have bought that I am Ying Amanda air awards, the jet setters. I did not just eyeing it I actually bought it and I'm super excited about that. And then we've got a couple of...I've got a bunch of arts because I the... And then somebody just texting me again, stop in How can I look at my picture of books if you keep doing me in, I don't care what's canceled, but don't care.Oh, I'm super excited about mother land by Lea... Frankie. I'm not... I think that comes out.Let me make the picture a little bit bigger. Oh, that's not out 'til July, sorry people, I'll let you know how it goes, but there's a lot, there's a really lot of good stuff out there now, so I go to your book store by some of it, tell us what it is and if you like it, we'll have a writing Facebook page book group, and please, don't forget. So you can order directly from your local bookstore. In fact, I saw it was interesting, I saw there was someone on Twitter who owns a bookstore. Oh shoot, I can't remember where it was, but she was saying that they were actually hoping to set up delivery to people that they could say they could leave books in their mailbox are on their door step for books they had ordered from the bookstore, so that they could expand their sales beyond just okay if people aren't coming to our store will deliver to you, so check to see if that's an option.Well, the guests that the guests Arena, and I interviewed a couple of days ago but which you listeners will be hearing next week probably, or possibly the week, after said that politics and pros and DC is doing free shipping, so some of the bigger ends may be able to do that. And I know my bookstore still north and Hanover, New "hansi and also Norwich books in norm. You can call them up and say, "I would like a copy of... Don't overthink it by an BOGO. That's another one that I actually... I'm gonna be looking for that at the book start today and such and such by so-and-so can I just pay you on the phone and you could put those in a bag, and when I pull up, roll down light wind, you can come drop them into my car. They will totally do that they will absolutely do that, and we gotta think these are our people, out there with the book stores, we wanna take care of them as best as we can while we're taking.Can I just add also keep an eye out for what books are coming out. If you normally find out about new releases because you go to a bookstore keep an eye out for what's coming out week to week. I know, for example, not that she's gonna need much help but you...Glennon Doyle's book, came out last week and she had a huge national tour planned to promote the book and get out there and do signings and stuff, and the entire tour has been canceled. So there are people who are putting books out and aren't able to go out and promote their own books. So keep an eye out for new releases, and buy those.We will try to do some little new release of a... Yeah, in our spare time, let's try to do some new relates updates on the Facebook page. On my Instagram, I'm constantly doing new books. That's at DA. Serena, does too. She's always got... Especially if you love the romance genre, she's cut that all over her stories. She's at Sinai. We're in a... We're gonna try to be noisy about King. Keeping the reading going, keeping our link to that strong yeah, especially since I think that you normally... My kids excuse for not reading for pleasure at home is... But I was reading so much at school today. But if he's gonna be out of school, then I'm gonna make sure he is quiet reading time with the internet, off at my house. So we will be a point is like a night.Alright, we good everybody, we're as good as we can be. Yeah, that's alright, everyone.If people, if you would like to get an update in your email inbox every time we release a new episode you can sign up for that at am Writing Podcast, dot-com, it's gonna invite you at that point to support the podcast and while we would love your support, if you just click "No subscription at this time, you will be signed up for the free weekly emails and that that's fine. We love that, too. Please do it. There's usually something extra and the emails, depends on the week.And if you do wanna support the podcast as I think just said recently, maybe use again some of that extra spare time that Hey, that just kinda has... Let's don't call it spare to create things to keep us all on track and to keep us working that we'll send out to hash again, writing sports sounds good, okay, I'm done talking about the right until next week. Everyone stay healthy, stay safe, to keep your butt in the chair and your head in the game. A "dinaric by Andrew parlour intro music Apple titles unemployed Monday was written and played by Max con Andrew Knox were paid for their time in the creative output because everyone deserves to be paid for their work. This is a public episode. Get access to private episodes at amwriting.substack.com/subscribe

SEASON 2: EPISODE 5 Poet Nick Flynn talks about the ways in which he won't die. ABOUT THE GUEST Nick Flynn has worked as a ship’s captain, an electrician, and a caseworker for homeless adults. Some of the venues his poems, essays, and nonfiction have appeared in include the New Yorker, the Nation, the Paris Review, the New York Times Book Review, and NPR’s This American Life. His writing has won awards from the Guggenheim Foundation, the Library of Congress, PEN, and the Fine Arts Work Center, among other organizations. His film credits include artistic collaborator and “field poet” on Darwin’s Nightmare (nominated for an Academy Award for Best Feature Documentary in 2006), as well as executive producer and artistic collaborator on Being Flynn, the film version of his memoir Another Bullshit Night in Suck City. His most recent collection of poetry, I Will Destroy You, appeared from Graywolf Press in 2019. He lives in Brooklyn with his wife, Lili Taylor, and his daughter, Maeve. http://www.nickflynn.org/ ABOUT THE HOST Neil Goldberg is an artist in NYC who makes work that The New York Times has described as “tender, moving and sad but also deeply funny.” His work is in the permanent collection of MoMA, he’s a Guggenheim Fellow, and teaches at the Yale School of Art. More information at neilgoldberg.com. ABOUT THE TITLE SHE'S A TALKER was the name of Neil’s first video project. “One night in the early 90s I was combing my roommate’s cat and found myself saying the words ‘She’s a talker.’ I wondered how many other other gay men in NYC might be doing the exact same thing at that very moment. With that, I set out on a project in which I videotaped over 80 gay men in their living room all over NYC, combing their cats and saying ‘She’s a talker.’” A similar spirit of NYC-centric curiosity and absurdity animates the podcast. CREDITS This series is made possible with generous support from Stillpoint Fund.  Producer: Devon Guinn  Creative Consultants: Aaron Dalton, Molly Donahue  Mixer: Andrew Litton  Visuals and Sounds: Joshua Graver  Theme Song: Jeff Hiller  Website: Itai Almor Media: Justine Lee Interns: Alara Degirmenci, Jonathan Jalbert, Jesse Kimotho Thanks: Jennifer Callahan, Nick Rymer, Sue Simon, Maddy Sinnock TRANSCRIPTION NICK FLYNN: I was driving my daughter to soccer. And she had a bike and I had a bike and we'd ride, even though it was a little cold.  NEIL GOLDBERG: Yeah.  NICK: But a guy went by on a bike and he had like a boombox, one of those boombox that plays, he's playing like a podcast, like really loud, and it was so odd. We both just laughed. It was like, what is that? You're just blasting a podcast going down the street, blasting.  NEIL: This is fresh air.  Hello, I'm Neil Goldberg and this is SHE'S A TALKER. I'm a visual artist and this podcast is my thinly veiled excuse to get some of my favorite New York writers, artists, performers, and beyond into the studio to chat. For prompts, I use a collection of thousands of index cards on which I've been writing thoughts and observations for the past two decades, kind of like one of those party games, but hopefully not as cheesy.  These days, the cards often start as recordings I make into my phone. Here are some recent ones: I really love how Beverly pronounces 'Meow'. It's never appropriate to share scrap paper from home with students. I'm never sure what a simmer is. I'm so happy to have as my guest, poet Nick Flynn. I have been a hardcore fan of Nick's writing since his first book, Some Ether, came out in 2000 and was blown away by his memoirs, Another Bullshit Night in Suck City, and The Ticking is the Bomb. In the fall, he released a new book of poetry, I Will Destroy You, and in the next few months he has two more books coming out: Stay, and This is the Night Our House Will Catch on Fire. I met Nick briefly in, I think, the late eighties in Provincetown, and we reconnected recently via our mutual friend, Jacques Servin, who is on an earlier episode. Nick and I spoke in January at a recording studio at The New School near Union Square in New York City. NEIL: Are you comfortable?  NICK: Like on a scale of one to ten?  NEIL: Like, you know those smiley faces, like if you're in the hospital. NICK: How much pain I have? Uh, I hadn't even thought about it till you just said that. Now I'm wondering if I am, so.  NEIL: I feel like I'm, I'm totally not, I'm not feeling any pain at the moment.  NICK: No, I'm not feeling any pain. No, I'm feeling no pain.  NEIL: That's different from, feeling no pain is different from not feeling any pain. NICK: That means if you're kind of fucked up, I think.  NEIL: Exactly.  NICK: You're feeling no pain.  NEIL: Um, I'm so happy to have you, Nick Flynn, on the show, SHE'S A TALKER.  NICK: I'm happy to be here, Neil Goldberg -  NEIL: I, you know -   NICK: on the show SHE'S A TALKER. Is the 'She' the cat? NEIL: Yeah.  NICK: That's, that's who the 'she' is.  NEIL: It is, yeah. I, you know -  NICK: I guess I got that. Yeah.  NEIL: Well, you know, in 1993 when everyone was dying... Everyone is still dying, but just differently.  NICK: I remember that. Yeah.  NEIL: Yeah. Uh, you know, I did a video project where I interviewed, it turned out to be, like about 80 gay men all over New York City in all five boroughs who had female cats, combing their cats and saying "She's a Talker." NICK: They were combing the cats?  NEIL: Combing the cat. It was just almost like, it was like a stealthy way to like, not stealthy, but it was a way to document a lot of gay men who felt like really imperiled, and it was my first video project. And, I don't know, when I decided to name this, that came up for me. But subsequently I get a lot of like, what does the word 'she' mean at this point? NICK: Right, right, right. Yeah.  NEIL: Maybe I should rebrand it. What should I call it?  NICK: Uh, you should stick with it, I think. Hmm.  NEIL: Uh, when, when you're looking for like a short hand, like you encounter someone on the proverbial elevator and are looking for like a pithy way to describe who it is you are and what it is you do, what do you, what do you reach for? NICK: I say I'm a poet.  NEIL: Period.  NICK: Period. Yeah. Yeah. Cause that usually gets a pretty dead-eyed stare like the one you just gave me. Like that's it? That's it.  NEIL: When someone is confronted with poet, silence, do you ever feel like helping someone out?  NICK: Well, it depends on like, often, that'll pretty much be the conversation-ender.  NEIL: Yeah.  NICK: So it does nothing to help cause they're gone right at that point.  NEIL: If your folks were around, how might they describe who it is you've become? NICK: Wow, that's a, that's an interesting one. Would they, would they still be, are they like idealized, my, like my parents on their best day or on their worst day?  NEIL: Oh, I wouldn't mind hearing both if you don't mind. Like the...  NICK: Ah, like, you know, there's the idealized version of your parents. Then there's the, not the reality, but the, you know, but recognizing at a certain point that they had some rough days, you know. In my mind, it's hard to deny they had some rough days. So, um, it's a little, it's a little harder to pretend. Yeah. Uh, my father, he knew that I'd published books and he was sort of, you know, strangely proud of that. Uh, but proud just in the way he knew I'd be a good writer because he was such a great writer, so I got it all from him. So he took all credit for any of it. So I imagined he would still take credit for any accomplishments I've had or that he perceives I've had. I've, I'm trying to think if he had like on a good day, that's sort of like a not so good day. Yeah. On a good day, he did have a couple moments where he was able to just recognize the struggle it had been, uh, between the two of us, uh, to actually acknowledge that. And I think that would be like, he'd say like, yeah, this was, this must have been hard, you know? So I think that would be. That'd be a good day for him.  My mother's a little more enigmatic, like it's actually, when I think about it, like, cause I mean, she died before he did. I was younger. I didn't know her as well, probably. So, although I grew up with her, but, um, I sort of studied my father more, and my mother's more of a, uh, a construct of the imagination in some ways. Although, I mean, we spent so much time together too. It's strange to say that actually, I don't know if that's true.  You know, I, there's always the question like, what would my mother be like now? So I'm, I look at women that are my mother's age, that would be my mother's age now. Like I don't know how, how she would be. So either way, I think she's, since she, from her backhouse sort of WASP-y Irish background, she probably wouldn't say directly anything. I'd have to decipher what she said.   NEIL: So it would be cryptic in terms of her estimation of you, or?  NICK: I mean, she, I think she'd say, "Oh, I'm, I'm proud of you." But the deeper levels of that I think would be harder to get to.  NEIL: Yeah. I see you came in, you were, you had a bike helmet, which I connect to. Um, on your bike ride over, did you have any thoughts?  NICK: Wow. Thoughts as I was coming here - the sort of meta thing is I was listening on my headphones to SHE'S A TALKER. And you're talking to someone about riding a bike over the bridge.  NEIL: Right, yeah.  NICK: So like, yeah. I mean, at the moment I was riding over the bridge. I was listening to you talk to someone else about riding over the bridge and then thinking that I would soon be here talking to you, and I brought my helmet it, I didn't - usually I lock it on my bike  but maybe I brought it in so you would ask me about it. It's possible, but I think I just brought it in cause it was cold, it was so cold outside. I wanted a warm helmet when I went back out. So.  NEIL: Aha, you didn't want to put on a cold helmet. I never thought about that. NICK: What I thought about on the bridge was that it was way colder than I thought it was. It was the wind, it was like howling and I had a hat in my bag and I kept thinking, I'll just stop and put my hat on under my helmet and I didn't stop. I kept thinking, I'll warm up at some point, but I just kept getting colder and colder the further I went. I just never stopped, I just kept going.  NEIL: Well, let's, um, go to some cards that I curated for you.  NICK: You curate these for this conversation?  NEIL: Yes. Yeah.   (Card flip)  So the first card is: the specific, tentative, hyper-attentive way one tastes something to see if it's gone bad. NICK: Um, what I usually do is I'll, I'll, I'll cook it and then give it to my brother. NEIL: Mikey likes it?  NICK: Yeah. And then if he can get through it then it probably hasn't gone so far bad. Cause he's pretty sensitive actually. I mean, while I'm presenting, it sounds like he'd just eat anything. No. He's quite sensitive. So he's like sort of the. He's, he, he, he's a Canary. Ah ha. Yeah. So I'll just fix it up and give it to him and then, cause he'll, usually, he's quite happy if I make him something, give him some food, then if it's no good, then, then I throw it away. Yeah. If he eats it, I'll eat it.  NEIL: He's your taster. Um, where, where does your brother live?  NICK: He lives upstate, New York.  NEIL: Oh, okay. Yeah, but he's your older brother, right, if I'm remembering? NICK: But why did you say, "but." Because he lives upstate?  NEIL: No, because of the scenario of like, your brother, the implication. He's an implied younger brother in the story.  NICK: Gotcha. Yeah. Yeah. He's an implied younger brother in life too.  (Card Flip)  NEIL: Next card. When a toddler falls, that space before they start to cry. NICK: Well. My daughter was, uh, three. And for us, like three was really like, spectacular meltdowns and just like, you know, tantrums and just like wildness, just like absolutely wild, like wild animal, just screaming and frustrated and like, you know, furious. And one day she, uh, she was in a tantrum, she fell and she hit her cheek on the corner of a staircase and it split open and like bled. It sort of woke her up. Like it was right at the end of her being three, she was going to turn four. It was a Sunday night. And my wife and I were like, Oh, what do we do? Like, I'm like, I guess, do we take her to her doctor or do we like, you know, just like, like leave her with a scar for the rest of her life? And so I butterfly-stitched it, you know, like made a little butterfly thing, to hold it together to squish the skin together, you know? And, uh. That's what we did. We sort of looked up t see like how big and deep it had to be to go to a doctor and stuff and to need a stitch, and it was sort of right on the edge. So I butterfly-stitched it, and then. Yeah so now she just has this pretty little scar on her face and she's perfect.  NEIL: Wow. And does she know the story of the scar?  NICK: Oh yeah. I would say it's a part of her myth, part of her origin myth. The wildest, the wildness poured out of her cheek. Yeah. Yeah.  NEIL: Uh, can, can you share -  NICK: Did that answer your question? NEIL: Yes and no. That's always the, um, I think it's beautiful. I have the idea, I'm not a parent, but when I see a kid having a tantrum - NICK: I wasn't either before that.  NEIL: Yeah.  NICK: It comes on kind of suddenly.  NEIL: But how did you deal with tantrums?  NICK: I, I've been sort of attentive and amused by the whole process. Like I feel like we're really lucky. She's a really good kid and just a really interesting kid and like, so I just sort of like see it, like, I admire the tantrums in a certain way. Like, I think everyone should be like, just screaming, running down the streets, you know, most of the time. Like this sucks. Um, so there was something very, uh, wild about it. Like just to see like, wow, like you can just do this. You can just go and like, you can go to a store and just pull a whole rack down. If you don't get your Popsicle, you don't fucking. She, she used to fire me like every day as a father. She said, if you do not give me that Popsicle, you will not be able to kiss me. You will not be able to hug me. You will not be my father.  NEIL: What did you say to that?  NICK: I'm like, Oh, that's really hard. I'd be sad not to be your father. She was like, you will not be able to, you will have to go to Texas and never come back.  NEIL: Crafty.  NICK: Yeah, she was good. Yeah, but I, you know, I was onto her though. Yeah. I'd be her father like in half an hour later. NEIL: Did you ever say -   NICK: She'd rehire me like half hour later. Yeah.  NEIL: Was there a re-intake process?  NICK: No. No. We just pretended it didn't happen. Yeah, it was all moving forward. It was all the continuous present.  NEIL: Yeah.  NICK: You just kept this present moment. This present moment had no connection to the other moments whatsoever. NEIL: Did you ever join your daughter in a tantrum?  NICK: Did I ever join her in a tantrum? Oh, wow. Yeah, I did. Yeah. I remember one night, like early on when she was like six months old and that. The beautiful hallucination of early parenthood where you just, you just don't sleep. You just like, you're just awake for like months. Like just not sleeping. And you just fall asleep in the middle of things. Just like, you know, you can just barely do anything. Everything's filthy and like, you know, you just wash all the clothes and immediately they're filthy again, the food is just taken and thrown to the floor. I think the dogs eat it. You just give up in a certain way. There's one night I was up with her at like three in the morning and she was just screaming. And I was just like, I think I filmed her screaming with my phone. I'm just like, okay, just scream. Just scream. I'm going to make a movie of you screaming. I was like, I don't know what to do. So I just made a little movie of her. NEIL: Wow. But you didn't, but, but it didn't call on you the feeling of like, now I am going to lose it myself and cry?  NICK: Um, well, I think I viewed, it's like, you know, I'm from like a sort of WASP-y Irish background, and so we don't really show that stuff. And I'm sort of always like that, but it don't, I don't, I try. I think no one can see it, but I think everyone actually sees it.  NEIL: So always you're, you're crying always. NICK: Melting down, yeah.  (Card Flips)  NEIL: Okay. Kids with artist parents. Because both you and your wife are artists. Like to me, the idea of like, two artists come together and they have a kid, well that's going to be a super kid. And then that kid maybe, will - NICK: Be with another artist, yeah. NEIL: It's almost like an artistic eugenics kind of vision or something.  NICK: Um, yeah. I always think it for our daughter, like Lord help her. Really. I don't think like, Oh, you've been, you've won the lottery. Like, like, this is the card, this is the hand you've been dealt. Good luck with it. You know, we're both like, yeah, we're both a little. I, I don't know, I don't know if neurotic is the right word, but like, you know. You know, we're, we're sensitive. We're like, you know, in some ways not made for this world, we're, we're awkward where other people are comfortable, we're, uh, you know, we found our place to, to survive, which is really lucky, you know? And also, you know, in a culture, like I'm a poet too, I'm not, like, it's not that like, this is like some hugely respected artistic position in our culture at the moment. You know, like, that's why I say that I, I say it perversely if someone asks me, with the elevator pitches, like if they ask me what I do, I say I'm a poet. And just because it's perverse, it's like it's so perverse, you know? You know when, if you go to a doctor's office, I write it on a form. I write 'poet', just, you might as well ride hobo or something. Right? That's not right. I'm a wizard. So it's not like, it doesn't feel like that she's suddenly being dealt like this, like, like a superhuman. Like, what are you talking about?  NEIL: Right. NICK:  It's just unfortunate. Like, you know. Artists get attracted to artists because we can vaguely understand each other, maybe. You know, we're not like, you know, I've tried to be with civilians before and it's like, not easy, you know? I really, I feel less understood, you know? I barely feel like I fit in now. To this world. So you know, you find someone who you feel like, yeah, you also don't feel like you fit in. So that's a kind of connection.  NEIL: How does your, how does your daughter describe what, what you both do? Does she unabashedly say -  NICK: Well, it's a little easier for Lily, for my wife. I mean, cause she's like, you know, people actually will sometimes recognize her on the streets and stuff, so she's a little prouder.  NEIL: But him, the hobo.  NICK: And my dad's a poet.  (Card Flip)  NEIL: Okay. Next card: the fetishization of storytelling.  NICK: Yeah. Right now there's a, there's a whole storytelling thing going on, right? Yeah. There's a whole sense of revival and stuff, and I don't exactly get it. I mean, I, I admire it, like I've gone to The Moth, I've participated in a couple of storytelling things. It's a, it's a strange form for me. It's a strange art form for me, and I admire it when it's done really well. I admire it. The ones I've gone to, that I've been part of, they were, kind of felt a little closer to stand-up, which is another art form too. But I'm like, the line is a little blurry and a little like strange and, and it makes sense that stand-up would be part of it. Cause they are sort of like, like jokes in a way. They're sort of packaged. I mean it's a packaged form. It's like improv is more interesting to me. Like where you don't know where it's going to go. But where, if you know where, I mean, like I say, people that do it well, it's really beautiful.  NEIL: Yeah.  NICK: It's just not what I do. It's like memoir is not storytelling. Uh, it's another form. And storytelling is like one part of it. You sort of tell the story, but then you sort of have to turn over the story and say like, why am I telling this story? Like what am I trying to present in telling this story, ignores all these other realities that are happening or all these other things I don't want you to know. People will come up and say like, you know, how's it feel to like, have that people know so much about you now? Like, well, you only know what I want you to know. You're gonna get some glimpse from a book.  NEIL: Right. Yeah.  NICK: From storytelling, I don't know even what glimpse you get, you get a glimpse of how they tell a story I guess. I want to know about other people. I want to know like what their, the interior life is of other people, what the landscape is. Which is why I like read... Or, why I, why I do anything. Like go see art. Or just to sort of like have that, so you're not so, so you recognize it's not all, all ego, you know? It's not all, like everything isn't sort of springing forth from within me. You know?  NEIL: Right. I'm not interested in other people's stories generally.  NICK: Yeah.  NEIL: Specifically too. I'm not interested in other people's stories, but I'm interested in hearing people think, which is what this podcast is about. So like the way their thought processes reveal themselves. That interests me. I don't know, but I'm, I'm, I'm not interested in the content. NICK: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I understand. Yeah. I teach creative writing and often it's like, I'm much more interested in like, the stuff around the content. It's not about the content, like it's more about the stuff around like how you're like, like, you know, how this one thing transformed something else or how you chose to make this weird sentence, or how like these things that have sort of moments of excitement. The story itself can be rather deadening.  NEIL: Right.  NICK: Yeah. Because, I think because it's somewhat packaged too, it is a lot of times, yeah.  NEIL: But I also, the thing I really resist is this, like: "We're about stories." You know, like the, this fetishization of storytelling has creeped into like how, how stories are talked about. It's like, we bring you stories da da da, stories. It's like, it feels infantilizing too.  NICK: Well, you know, I was just talking about this with one of my, some of my students, uh. You know, the, what's the most famous Joan Didion line? "We tell ourselves stories in order to live."  NEIL: Right, right.  NICK: And, yet, The White Album goes on. That's the first line of The White Album. That'll probably be on her tombstone. Uh, you know, they make bookmarks of it in bookstores, and yet if you actually read The White Album, that essay, she totally just doesn't believe it and contradicts it and says like, why? Like this makes no sense at all. And like that this is, I thought I could do this. Like I was, I was desperately trying to create a story that would protect me from something and it, none of it worked. And it just dissolves, the whole thing just all is like, so to take that one line out of context and say, this is actually a truism is so strange. It doesn't make any sense at all. And there's a  thing, my therapist came up with this thing of the, I don't know if he came up with it, but we talk about my, one of my disorders, uh, one of my many disorders is a narrative affect disorder where I'll create like stories like, but you know, it's not stories like you're talking about, it's creating books and creating like versions of what happened, um, in order to contain it and to be able to hold onto it in a way that seems safe, so I don't have to feel the actual emotional intensity of it.  NEIL: Right.  NICK: Um, and I think it's, it is a type of illness. I think storytelling is a type of illness, uh, that keeps you from actually feeling.  (Card Flips)   NEIL: Next card: often when I leave the apartment, I think, is this how I'd like it to be found if I die today? NICK: I think that one's more about you than me. I think. Um.  NEIL: You don't think that when you leave?  NICK: Well, I don't think I'm ever going to die. I'm pretty sure. NEIL: Do you really believe that?  NICK: Yeah. Like I, yeah, no. I have a thing where like, I'm, I'm, there's, well, I just know the ways I'm not going to die.  NEIL: Okay. Let's hear it.  NICK: I'm not going to die in an airplane crash. I'm not going to die by getting eaten by a shark. Might die by getting hit by a car on a bicycle. I mean I might, so I have to be careful.  NEIL: Yeah.  NICK: But I can swim for miles in the ocean filled with sharks. I'm fine. Yesterday I was on a plane coming from Houston and, uh, it was just like, like being on a ship in the middle of a, of a nor'easter. Like it was just wild, you know, like it really, like it was almost spinning. Yeah. I was fine. I'm like, Oh, this is cool cause I'm not gonna die in a plane. Like, you know, so I just have these sorts of things. They might be, you know, just delusional. You know, I mean, how could I possibly know? But I'm almost positive I'm not going to get eaten by a shark. NEIL: Uh huh.  NICK: Which really, which really helps in Provincetown. Cause there's a lot of sharks there now and a lot of people don't swim in the water. And I'm like, ask yourself, are you going to get eaten by a shark? Do you really think that's the way you're gonna die? And most people would say no. I mean, wouldn't you say no? Like no. If you know, on a rational day, like that'd be really, and if you did, that'd be so cool. Like how many people, how many poets get eaten by a shark? That'd be so excellent, right? Like it's a win-win. I have a poet, there's a poet, Craig Arnold, a really great poet that died a couple of years ago. He was writing a whole series of poems on volcanoes. Traveling the world, like got a grant to travel the world and look at volcanoes. He's just gone. He just vanished one day. He vanished. We think he fell into a volcano and died. Like, that's like an amazing story. Like it's terrible, terrible, awful. But I mean, there are a lot worse ways to die than falling into a volcano.  NEIL: Oh my God. How would you feel about being bitten by a shark and surviving it?  NICK: That's cool. That woman, that, that surfer that only has one arm, she's cool.  NEIL: You'd be okay with that?  NICK: If I could surf like her.  (Card Flips)  NEIL: Um.  NICK: I really killed this bottle of Perrier.  NEIL: Oh, awesome. I love it. Um, good job. Uh: the ambiguity of "It's downhill from here."  NICK: Oh. The whole idea of like, you know. There's a few things. Yeah. The opposite is all uphill from here, right. It's all, so downhill sounds pretty good, right? But it suggests like we're sliding into the grave, I think. NEIL: Yes.  NICK: Like it's all like we've reached the peak.  NEIL: Yeah.  NICK: That was the peak. It was really hard to get to the peak. And as soon as you get to the peak, you start going downhill. Yeah. You know? Uh, and, uh. Yeah, I often joke, yeah, I'm on the other side of the, on the other side, now, you know, that you somehow that the, the, the greatest work and the greatest, uh, notoriety so that was a while ago. Um, and.  NEIL: But also maybe the greatest struggle, no?  NICK: Was a while ago.  NEIL: Yeah.  NICK: Yeah. Oh, I dunno. But I, I joke about it. I just, I don't really believe that. The most recent project I'm doing just feels completely, uh, uh, fulfills me. You know, I'd have this other book coming out, this book, Stay, coming out, which I'm, I worked on a lot last year and I'm happy with that. And another book coming out after that. So there's like, you know, I don't really worry about it, but it's, it's almost a thing. It might be sort of Irish too, like just so you don't want to sort of, uh, be too full of yourself. You know, you want to like sort of be somewhat, you don't want to show how many fish you caught that day cause then you have to give half away. So you sort of downplay it. You downplay it. So the downhill side is where we sort of live. We live on the downhill side. I don't know, it's a strange metaphor.  NEIL: It's, it's ambiguous. NICK: Yeah, it's a strange metaphor.  NEIL: But I'm also thinking it's a paradox, too, and, as you talked, because take the downhill part. Um, it does get easier.  NICK: Yeah.  NEIL: I think, I mean, my life, I will say, and anything could change at any moment, has gotten so much easier, you know, now that I'm clearly on the other side. NICK: Psychic.  NEIL: Yeah.  NICK: Psychically. Yeah.  NEIL: For sure.  NICK: Yeah. Yeah.  NEIL: Um, yeah. It's also, I am sliding into the grave. Yeah. I mean, hopefully it's a long slide, but...  NICK: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Mortality. The cold wind of mortality does start to, you start to feel it. At a certain point.  NEIL: In your back.  NICK: Yeah. You started, you know, it's blown in your face. Yeah. It's like, it's like you feel it, which I, you sort of thought you felt it in your 20's but you really, you could have, I mean, we know a lot of people that died in their 20's, sure. It was not like this. This is like the real thing. Yeah. This is like, yeah. There's no, like, there's no choice in the matter. So like, yeah, maybe I'll just overdose or something, you know, or, or, you know, or I'll just be reckless and didn't die. Now it's like, yeah, no matter what I do, doesn't matter what I do, I can, I can eat kale, I can eat kale the rest of my life.  NEIL: Yeah. I don't have to coax the process and it's still going to happen. NICK: Yeah.   (Card Flips)  NEIL: The existential space of the clipboard. NICK: Well, I mean, clipboard, I think when you say clipboard, I was thinking of just like first of a blank clipboard, but then I was also thinking of the thing you put clippings on, that you put other things on, combine things together.  NEIL: I'm thinking of the clipboard, the computer clipboard. Like when you cut something. That space.  NICK: Well, what do, what is it? What is that on the computer?  NEIL: The clipboard. NICK: Yeah. What is that? I'm not sure what it, what do you mean? You cut and paste stuff? Or... NEIL: Anytime you, surely you do Command X and Command C, right?  NICK: You mean like copy things and then cut things? Yeah. Yeah. Cut. Yeah.  NEIL: So when you copy something -  NICK: And Command V.  NEIL: Oh yeah.  NICK: Yeah, yeah. Can't forget Command V.  NEIL: Absolutely. When you do Command C - NICK: Yeah. That copies it.  NEIL: Into the clipboard. And then that command, do Command V - NICK: It takes it off the clipboard.  NEIL: Yeah. Well, it stays in the clipboard, but it also pastes the inside.  NICK: See I don't think, I never knew that. Yeah. I never would've thought of that.  NEIL: I'm acutely aware of the clipboard. NICK: I never thought where it went. Oh. Oh. Well, this is a tough question cause I've never really thought of this before. So, uh, existential, I mean, that's kind of heavy to suggest it has to do with life or death. Um, uh.  NEIL: You don't think about your text in that kind of liminal state between when you cut it and when you've pasted it? NICK: I figured it just, it goes away. Like it doesn't, like if I, if I cut something else, then that replaces the thing I cut before, or if I copy something else, replaces the thing. So I just assume there's not a clipboard holding all of them.  NEIL: No, it isn't. That's part of the existential condition.  NICK: Cause it just vanishes once you put something else on top, once you copy something else.  NEIL: Yeah. It's fragile.  NICK: Yeah. I make a lot of copies. I try to, I try to like, save things as much as possible and like, yeah, like I'm, and print things up. I, I prefer to write by hand first. Uh, really. Um, and then to print it and then to write by hand on the thing I've printed and then to keep going back and forth like that. I like writing by hand. There's a, there's a young poet, um, who created an app called 'Midst.' It's hard to say midst, like in, you're in the midst of something. Yeah. I don't know how to - midst. M. I. D. S. T. It's very hard to say for me.  NEIL: Yeah. Me too.  NICK: Can you say it?  NEIL: Uh, yeah. I feel like it's going to intersect with my sibilant A-S. Let's try it. Midst.  NICK: Yeah. Oh, you do feel very well.  NEIL: But a little gay, right?  NICK: I didn't, I didn't say that. I raised one eyebrow, but I did not say it.  NEIL: When straight men raise one eyebrow, it somehow doesn't look gay. Midst. Midst. What's Midst?  NICK: Well, it's a, it's a program that she did where you can, where you write a poem, I guess you write anything, but it sort of keeps track of all the cutting and pasting you do and the, the process of making it. So you ended up, you send her like a final poem, but then she can press a button and can see all the stuff you did to make it. Um, so I have to try it though, but I usually, I really usually write by hand first and she's like, no, you have to write it on the, you have to compose the whole thing on the thing. I'm like, okay, so I just haven't quite done it yet, but I'm, yeah, I'm planning on it though.  NEIL: But this is basically, this isn't a useful tool. This is a tool to create a kind of -  NICK: To create a thing. She'll publish like a magazine that shows, like you look at a poem and then you press a button and it all sort of like, maybe it goes in reverse and dissolves back to the first word or something.  NEIL: Yeah. I just am not into those kinds of things. I feel like there's a lot of that peripheral to the art world. These things that kind of like perform a process or reveal a process. I'm just not into that. You know what I'm saying? NICK: No, but that's okay. I mean, I try, I believe that you are not into it. I'm just like, process is nice. Like I love, I love, I love seeing the process. I love seeing, don't you love like, like thinking like Michelangelo's slaves, you know, on the way to the David, right?  NEIL: Oh yeah.  NICK: We get to see the slaves like coming out of the block of marble and everyone says that they were like incomplete.  NEIL: Yes.  NICK: Yeah. We just said, which is such bullshit. Like if you think about it, like what, he did twelve incomplete at the same stage, like they're half out of the block just, Oh, I'm just gonna stop them all here.  NEIL: Right?  NICK: Like, it makes no sense at all. Like you couldn't finish one of them? NEIL: Right. NICK: Like he clearly saw that it looked cool for slaves who were pulling themselves out of what they're stuck in. And that, I find it so much more interesting than David, which is complete and perfect. I think, I think that's the meta thing where it's like all about process. That's like the process right there.  NEIL: Huh.  NICK: Yeah. So I try to think about that. That was just sort of a highfalutin way to counter your anti-process.  NEIL: Doesn't feel highfalutin. I think my thing was like faux highfalutin.  (Card Flips)  What keeps you going?  NICK: Um. Uh, just wondering what's gonna happen next. Yeah. Yeah. NEIL: Poet. On that note, thank you, Nick Flynn, for being on SHE'S A TALKER. NICK: Thank you, Neil. NEIL: That was my conversation with Nick Flynn. Thank you for listening.  Before we get to the credits, there were some listener responses to cards that I'd love to share. In my conversation with artist Tony Bluestone, we talked about the card: That moment when you forget what you should be worrying about and try to reclaim it. In response to that card, Jamie Wolf wrote, "A single brussel sprout rolled under the stove, and I wasn't gonna let Shavasana get in the way of my at least remembering to retrieve it." John Kensal responded with what I think is a haiku: Please sit or flee, my wee and quiet executive function disorder. Another card Tony and I talked about was: Fog is queer weather, to which Jonathan Taylor wrote, "To me, fog is transgressive because it's like a cloud. So it's either you or it is not where it's supposed to be."  Thanks to everyone who wrote in. If you have something you'd like to share about a card on the podcast, email us or send us a voice memo at shesatalker@gmail.com or message us on Instagram at shesatalker. And also, as always, we'd love it if you'd rate and review us on Apple Podcasts or share this episode with a friend. This series is made possible with generous support from Stillpoint Fund. Devin Guinn produced this episode. Molly Donahue and Aaron Dalton are our consulting producers. Justine Lee handles social media. Our interns are Alara Degirmenci, Jonathan Jalbert, Jesse Kimotho, and Rachel Wang. Our card flip beats come from Josh Graver. And my husband, Jeff Hiller, sings the theme song you're about to hear. Thanks to all of them, and to my guest, Nick Flynn, and to you for listening. JEFF HILLER: She's a talker with Neil Goldberg. She's a talker with fabulous guests. She's a talker, it's better than it sounds, yeah!

People nowadays are so eager to produce an output that some of it leads to mediocrity. And because they want to have something right away, most of them end up forgetting about the most important thing when it comes to building something. But what exactly is that “thing” that we need to be aware of? In this episode, Dean talks about what it means to have a strong and reliable foundation and how important it is when you’re trying to build your business. ---------- Automated Transcript Below: Hey, this is Dean Soto founder of freedom in five minutes calm and pro silom. Calm PR O, Su, O u m calm. And we're here again with another freedom in five minutes episode. Today's topic is this, the foundation of what you build is what matters most. That and more coming. Oh, good morning. It's kind of getting warmer here. Which is good, in a sense, but I need to go and take advantage of the snow before it all melts up in the mountain area. Anyway, I'll solve that problem when we get there. So I'm on the walk with the Luna Meister as usual and got some good things. That's some good things. So So building this cat house. It's a it's a feral cat house, we want to get a whole bunch of cats set from the ASPCA who, you know, they've been fixed. They've been spayed, but they just they're just not something they're not a cat that wants to be indoors or not a cat that wants to be with people, and so on and so forth. And so they're not going to be cats that want to be inside right. So. So I'm building a feral cat house is going to be four foot, four foot wide by eight foot long and I need to start putting some more dirt on on my What's it called? My chicken coop I have this I have this wire mesh that comes out from the chicken coop and then you start putting some more dirt or over it. Anyway. That'll be Yet another thing I need to do. So anyway, these feral cats will live in this cat house. So I'm gonna already have kind of the designs for it and everything. So I already started building the foundation and built most of the, the frame of the structure, and so on. And it's good. The way that we're going to actually design and it's going to look like a like a, like a biker bar. Have you ever seen like a, like a biker bar type thing and, and it's going to have like a sign out, out in front of it's gonna be all black and have like spikes and things like that. And it's good. The biker bar is going to be called Hell's kittens. And so or something like that. And so these, these are going to be our rat catchers. They're going to be the ones who get all of the the rodents and snakes and squirrels and and gophers and things Like that, so I'm super excited to get these guys gonna be pretty awesome. But one of the things and I learned this when building other things, but one of the things that has taken me the longest is building the foundation for this house. I've already like I said, I've already built the frame and darn it, I left this piece of wood out. Hopefully it didn't work. I don't think it will. Anyway, I'm sorry, the, the, the the that I've already learned from other structures that have built despite how annoying it is, despite how much I don't like it, whether I like it or not. whether I like it or not the hardest part of this whole thing is the foundation. Right so the foundation is made of cinder blocks is going to be, it's going to be four corners, and then a couple of blocks that are in the center just to keep the keep the floor from bending, and so on and so forth. But the most important part are definitely the four corners. And it's on a slope. Right now it's on a slope. So the front of the structure, the cinder blocks are dug in about halfway down, which is totally fine. That's great. But the ones in the back, because it's on a little slope. Those are barely dug in. So when I was trying to make sure that they didn't shift or anything like that, when I was doing that, I found that it just wasn't going to work. As soon as I put soon as I put the structure on there, and there's any type of movement, it's going to start shifting the cinder blocks, right. Well, luckily, I had a bag of Quick, quick drying concrete I've brought the bag down and I didn't want to do this is just one obviously an added piece of work and then anytime I'm anytime I'm con creating something it's pretty permanent like that's the way I've always feel it's a pretty permanent and so I don't want to mess up so anyway I pour the concrete on it and go and get some water to start winning the concrete and and right when I pour the water on the the thing I realized oh crap, there was concrete on top of the cinder block too. So I had to I had to very quickly brush it all off with my hand and make sure that that so that didn't dry on the cinder block and then make that all uneven and everything like that. But um when I when I finished it was, you know as quick drying concrete so it didn't take that long to dry, but it was a perfect foundation. Perfect. The one on the back. They're not going to shift, the ones in the front are not going to shift. Not too worried about the ones in the center because if those four corners don't shift, we should be good to go should be pretty golden. And so yeah, it was a, it was one of those things where, where I started realizing, you know, I've spent hours spent hours just on this dang foundation. And it's cinder blocks, it's literally just cinder blocks and trying to make them as straight as possible, as highest as as the same height as possible, as well as the same height as possible. But also, more importantly, that all of them are leveled, and they all align with each other. Okay, which is hard. It's a little bit harder. It's not hard, but it just takes a lot of time. And and I realized, wow, yeah, I could literally be doing the fun stuff like cutting word and putting all the word together and doing all our stuff. But here I am doing This foundation Well, if I were to do all of that, the word and cut all that stuff and build everything and then put it on a foundation that was horrible, the foundation that wasn't going to last so foundation that was shaky or an uneven, the whole structure, eventually very quickly is going to give away and it's going to come crashing down. Right? And I don't want to come crashing down on my kitties That would suck. And so, why is this all important? You know, the foundation of everything is so, so important. This is why we are we are ruthless. And I say that in all honesty, like we are ruthless with our customers, making sure that they have the foundation of building systems the foundation of creating systems from systems documentation from video, right. That is a huge, huge thing and a lot of customers want to jump we want to jump just to the building part. Just want to jump just to the fun part and We have to stop them and say that's not how we work here. That's not what we do. So if you don't, if you if you're looking to if you're looking to have a building that and a business that is going to crumble, or you're going to have to go and fix and fix and fix and fix, not the not the right place, right? So what right now of your foundation of your business or your marriage or anything like that, what right now, are you doing that you know, that you should spend more time on even though it's not fun, maybe it's your marriage, maybe it's going on date nights, maybe it's going on? Maybe it's taking time during the day for your family to have a meal together? Maybe it's maybe it could be, you know, going to church more for your spirituality side of things or exercising more stretching, whatever it might be. I challenge you to take the time to build the foundation for that thing. Because the more that you try to, to build, without having that solid ground built, the more difficult is going to be for you to the more difficult it's going to be for you to see results in anything that you're doing. And it's going to be a constant fight and a constant struggle and the constant repairing of everything so so this Dean sort of founder of freedom in five minutes calm, go check out freedom in five minutes calm also go check out. Go check out proselyte calm PR o su lm calm. If you want a virtual systems architect, super, super inexpensive, but they will literally transform your entire business. Sometimes. almost overnight, I would say. I wouldn't say overnight, but pretty darn close. So all that being said You're hearing me in my garage. So I'm going to take off this Dean Soto freedom in five minutes. I'll catch you on the next freedom in five minutes podcast episode. 

This week, catching up with Dexcom CEO Kevin Sayer – overseas at the ATTD conference. We talk about everything from a G7 update, new partnerships, in-app notifications and those sensors that you’ve probably heard about getting stuck. We also talk about competition, customer service and a lot more. Join the Diabetes Connections Facebook Group! In Tell Me Something Good, a Miss America contestant with T1D has pretty stellar week – and it has nothing to do with her crown and sash.. this is about engineering . Check out Stacey's new book: The World's Worst Diabetes Mom! This podcast is not intended as medical advice. If you have those kinds of questions, please contact your health care provider. Sign up for our newsletter here ----- Use this link to get one free download and one free month of Audible, available to Diabetes Connections listeners! ----- Get the App and listen to Diabetes Connections wherever you go! Click here for iPhone      Click here for Android Episode transcription (we're in beta so please excuse grammar, spelling, punctuation and the fact that AI can't figure out Dexcom speak) Stacey Simms 0:00 Diabetes Connections is brought to you by One Drop created for people with diabetes by people who have diabetes by Real Good Foods, real food, you feel good about eating, and by Dexcom take control of your diabetes and live life to the fullest with Dexcom. Announcer 0:21 This is Diabetes Connections with Stacey Simms. Stacey Simms 0:26 This week, catching up with Dexcom CEO Kevin Sarah overseas at a big diabetes Technology Conference. We talk about everything from the g7 new partnerships in app notifications. And those stuck sensors that you've probably heard about or seen on social media. Kevin Sayer 0:45 There's a freak out factor but Let's face it, if that's your last sensor, that's not fair. And that's not right. So we noted it, we've seen it, we've read it. We've done everything we can to mitigate it. I'm very comfortable we’ll see this come down. Stacey Simms 0:57 We also talk about upcoming CGM Competition, customer service, direct to Apple Watch and a lot more. in Tell me something good on Miss America contestant with Type 1 diabetes has a pretty stellar week and it has nothing to do with her crown and sash. This is about engineering. This podcast is not intended as medical advice. If you have those kinds of questions, please contact your healthcare provider. Welcome to another week of Diabetes Connections. I am your host Stacey Simms, we aim to educate and inspire about type 1 diabetes by sharing stories of connection. My son was diagnosed with type one, just before he turned two. That was more than 13 years ago. My husband lives with type two diabetes. I do not have diabetes. I have a background in broadcasting and local radio and TV news. And that's how you get the podcast. longtime listeners know what the show is all about. letting some new people know because let's face it anytime we talked to dexcom or talk about anything New technology, we get a lot of new listeners. So welcome! If you've come for that, I hope you stick around and go through our almost 300 past episodes. Now, you can find everything at Diabetes Connections. com, we have a very robust search, there's the regular old search box on the upper right hand side. Or if you click on the episode page, there is a way to sort them by category. So if you want to see all the technology episodes are all the ones with athletes are all the ones about family or advocacy, you can sort them that way as well. Before we talk to Kevin Sayer, it is important to point out that as you heard the very top Dexcom is a sponsor of this show, and has been for a few years now. Our agreement means I talk about them in a commercial, which you will hear later on the show. But it doesn't mean that I don't get to ask hard questions. I really try to serve you as you listen, I try to serve you first. And if I'm not doing that this show doesn't work ethically. It's really important to disclose these things. And I always get upset when other either podcasters or bloggers or speakers don't do that. If you're a longtime listener, you understand how it works around here. Hopefully, I am doing a good job of serving you. But just to be clear, the advertisers in the show pay for the advertisement. And I believe in them, and I'm glad they're here. But they do not tell me what to say, in the show anywhere else on social media, or when I write a blog, that sort of thing. It's not that kind of relationship. So we're talking to Kevin coming up in just a couple of minutes asking your questions. I took a whole bunch of them from the Facebook group. We do have a Facebook group, it is Diabetes Connections, the group, very original, but very easy to find that way I thought, and that's really the best way if you want to ask these newsmakers questions I usually ask in the group and you can always contact me that way. That's coming up in just a minute. But first Diabetes Connections is brought to you by another sponsor, One Drop. It is so nice to find a diabetes product that Not only does what you need, but also fits in perfectly with your life. One Drop is that is the sleekest looking and most modern meter My family has ever used. And it's not just about their modern meter setup. You can also send your readings to the mobile app automatically and review your data anytime, instantly share blood glucose reports with your healthcare team. It also works with your Dexcom Fitbit or your Apple Watch. Not to mention they're awesome test strips subscription plans, take as many test strips as you need, and they'll deliver them to your door. One Drop diabetes care delivered, learn more, go to Diabetes Connections calm and click on the One Drop logo. My guest this week is Dexcom CEO Kevin Sayer. He is joining us from the International Conference on Advanced Technologies and Treatments for diabetes, which this year is in Madrid. So as we're talking to Spain here, please pardon any glitches or weird phone sounds that might pop up but hopefully all will go away. Kevin, thank you so much for joining me. I appreciate it. Kevin Sayer 5:02 Oh, thank you, Stacey. It's good to be back again. Stacey Simms 5:05 All right, let's start with the news that has already come out of the conference. And that is this official partnership with Insulet. With Omnipod. Can you start by talking a little bit about? And I'll be honest with you, I'm a little confused. I they're already in clinical trials for Horizon. I thought this agreement was a done deal. Tell us about the agreement with Insulet. Kevin Sayer 5:23 Actually, we've been working with Insulet since 2007. This is a long time relationship. And most of our work in the past was then under the form of a development agreement to jointly develop products together. The announcement this week is the culmination of all that development work over time to basically say, look, we've entered into an agreement whereby we know how we're going to commercialize our joint systems. And also, as we have entered into these development agreements with our partners, we typically do it one generation of technology at a time, we made the g7 system available to the Insulet team as well. So once they get a rising launch with G6, as the G7 system gets ready to go, it will be will be able to migrate over to that system as well. So that that was the purpose of this announcement and the other. You know, the other reason for it, there is so much going on in the interoperability world right now. We index coms as well, it's important that everybody knows that we have these relationships. And this relationship is very close and near and dear to us. So we therefore thought the announcement was good on something we have been working on for a very long time. Stacey Simms 6:29 When we look at interoperability, you've mentioned already G6, G7. Can you just take a step back and give us a little bit of an update on that so Insulet will go with their horizon, which is not out yet. That'll be g six and G seven tandem with control IQ also g six mg seven Kevin Sayer 6:50 Tandem has access to G6 right now. We've not yet signed a G7 agreement with them, but we'd expect to do that and then they're very near future. We've also signed a relationship with Lily and their connected pens and their platforms, whereby they'll have access to G six and G seven as well. We have several other smaller relationships with some of the smaller pump companies or others where they have to six, access not a lot of g7. At this point in time, we have to look at that strategy over time and decide what approach we're going to take with partners. The interoperability world creates some very interesting business scenarios, which I wish I knew the answer to all of that, but it ranges anywhere from let's say, one person and go or two people and just work with them to maybe a few or just open it up to everybody. And I think it evolves over time. For us right now. We think it's important that we support certainly as many as we can, but offer even a heightened level of support to those who are going to have commercial offerings in the near future as speaking towards Tandem and Insulet. In particular, the control IQ uses g six and we read certainly very good things about that is that since we've been out there. And so we'll work with them all. This is going to evolve over time. All the answers are available. Sure. Stacey Simms 8:07 Okay, so let's talk about control IQ quickly, because that's been in the news quite a lot lately. We just started it about three to four weeks ago. It's been working very well for my son, but Dexcom owns the algorithm, but used to be called or maybe still is type zero. Kevin Sayer 8:23 So let me give a little clarity on the fundamental or the underlying science and the calculations behind the algorithm are in fact, developed a type zero and owned by Dexcom. Tandem has filed that as their controller. They have done some user experiences some modifications as to how it is integrate into their pump, but the fundamental algorithm is owned by Dexcom. And type zero. That's correct. So the sensor in the algorithm driving it are Dexcom properties. Stacey Simms 8:49 This is a little bit more esoteric than I expected to get in so quickly here, but what's it like being in the algorithm business and Do you have plans to perhaps get some other algorithms in Your tool kit, if you're like us, not the only one out there Kevin Sayer 9:02 know when we've looked at those, and we love our team in Charlottesville, we have some decisions to make there too. So what we're going to do long term with the algorithm and how available we're going to make it, it is a great business opportunity is a great skill set for us to have as well. With that team in Virginia, we've learned a lot about our sensor, their opportunities to take the science has been developed for automated insulin delivery and apply it to decision support for those who really don't want to use a pump all the time that we could possibly provide some good decisions along the way that would help them better manage their diabetes in the manner that they want to. I think there are a lot of opportunities to do that here. What we're going to let it play out, we're still early on in in that one. They're certainly next generation algorithm to come after they control iq version of it, which is kind of a step up or there's even less user interaction where you possibly won't have to announce all the meals and Everything that will be a little more aggressive on treatment and require a little less user interaction. And we got to figure out what our strategy is going to be to do that and how we're going to go with that. So we're kind of in the algorithm business, but sensors are still our biggest, you know, that's where we pay our bills, the most important thing for us, when we saw that asset was kind of available out there that we felt it was something that we just needed to control. And then we're thrilled with it. And quite frankly, it's worked out well for me, too, because they're right away from us in San Diego. And we can very much collaborate very quickly, since we have access to those scientists and they have access to us. Stacey Simms 10:39 So let's talk about the g7. We've talked about it before. Can you give us an update, what the features will be? What makes it different and the timeline? Kevin Sayer 10:49 Well, as we've talked, I'll start with the timeline, as we've said in our public statements, will be starting a typical study this year. Our hope is have a limited launch in 2020 The limited line for that have a significant impact on our financial results. So in the public world, we don't say a whole lot about the limited launch, we intend to do the full ride in 2021. And I don't have a perfect time frame yet, I will tell you, the mitigating factor will more than likely be our ability to scale it up. As you know, from your community. We learned a lot in 2019, about scale and all those lessons were not necessarily positive, the Dexcom. But they were good learnings. It was hard, we underestimated some things when we rolled to six out the way we did and I don't know that even if we delayed three or four months like to its original plan launch date, that we would have solved those problems because the demand for G six was so much higher than we anticipated. It would be you know, in the past, we could overcome 20% more demand than we have because we didn’t fill that many sensors. So yeah, if you’re manufacturing 2 million sensors. We can come up with another 200, 300 thousand, that's not a problem. But when you use the numbers we're at today. becomes a problem. So if anything, we learned anything from the big six launch, we are going to be prepared to scale g7 when we launch it, because when it comes, nobody's going back, just like nobody's going back to G five g six features of the product, as we've talked about before it much thinner, smaller profile, disposable electronics. So there's not a transmitter component anymore. There's no assembly of anything before you put it on, you literally take it out of the box, press the insertion device into your skin and hit the button and you're gone much smaller plastics profile. from an environmental perspective, patients will be glad to know that we get that comment frequently on our current system about all the plastics length of where we're shooting for an extended wear period. I have to tell you, we will balance the extended wear period against the accuracy and performance of the system with respect to iCGM standards. We know we have to have this as an iCGM to talk to these automated delivery systems and sometimes you make trades offs. Length of wear versus accuracy, as most people know, at some point in time, the longer you wear a sensors, the more difficult it is for to perform perfectly. One of the things that I often that isn't understood about g six, I can give the perfect example, these standards set by the FDA on iCGM are difficult. They're not simple to meet. And literally the way that g six algorithm works is if through our and our analytics, we look at the sensor signal and determine that that sensor is about to become less accurate than it should be, under iCGM rules, we turn it off. So there's a perceived lack of reliability from some of our patients on the sensor, when in fact that's not the case at all. We're turning it off intentionally. And that's very often associated with physiology. You know, people's bodies are different, and even sensor sessions can be different based on how much activity you have or where, the place you insert the sensor. So we're hoping for an extended To 15 day, where it certainly wouldn't be less than 10. We will go either way, but we need to make sure we meet the criteria. The sensor is much shorter than g six. So it will be a shorter sensor from our user experience so far and our preclinical work we've had nothing but great feedback on that. Stacey Simms 14:17 What does that mean? Is it a shorter wire or a shorter device, smaller, shorter wire Kevin Sayer 14:22 Shorter wire with the direct insert, not angle, but it is straight in but it's very, very short. Stacey Simms 14:33 More to come on the g7 and many other Dexcom issues. But first Diabetes Connections is brought to you by Real Good Foods, good foods, and their philosophy is all about keeping it real with food with community and with each other. And if you go on their website, you can find out so much more about the product real food, high protein, it's not about chemically made protein powders. This is about food, chicken cheese Right, low carb, grain free and zero added sugar. They keep adding products. We are big fans of the original pizza and the poppers but they've added a breakfast sandwiches with sausage or with bacon, cauliflower crust pizzas, chicken alfredo, other Italian entrees. They just keep adding more great stuff, find out more, go to Diabetes Connections calm and click on the Real Good Foods logo. Now back to my interview with Kevin and we were talking about the g7. You mentioned the the longer were balanced with their performance Do you expect the g7 to perform differently to perform I hate to say better but to use the criteria you were talking about with the iCGM? Do you expect fewer issues with either Physiology or the sensor sensing that something is wrong and then turning off. Kevin Sayer 15:57 That is our hope and our belief? We have learned So much from G six, as to what we can improve and make better It's been one of the scientists said to me the other day, he feels like he's working in a semiconductor factory. We're learning that much about sensors these days, as we're preparing for this setting to launch this product, we may not even be able to get all the things we've learned into the first version. But I think there'll be a couple of iterations whereby I know the extended wear will come and I know that that the reliability will be there. One of the things that we put around ourselves as a criteria is to significantly improve the reliability percentages. And we were experiencing on G six today, both on G six going forward and on g7. It just doesn't work. Patients have to return to the sensors, because they fall off or don't last long enough. We have to make that experience more consistent. So we're very focused on that. Not just with you seven, but with the six improvements as well. Stacey Simms 16:51 All right, this next one, I just have to get it out. Kevin, I feel like a broken record. But can we talk about direct to watch what's going on? I know there's been a lot of holdups but is that something that’s happening? Kevin Sayer 17:03 No, and we're working on it I appreciate you asking again, is technologically very difficult a Bluetooth protocols on the watch are not the same as the phone. And I go down to r&d and I asked the guys a question, every time I talk to you tell me what's going on. And it's not only difficult from the Bluetooth perspective, there's an experience perspective, it's also difficult with respect to the alerts Can we make it worse, audibly loud enough for by somebody can hear them? What happens when you take your watch and you put it on your charger and it's your primary displaying walk away, there's some where issues and some issues around the watch to create a little bit different experience and required a bit more fun on our part, and quite candidly, a lot more complex engineering. And we have done firmware updates to get us closer there. When we're done. We'll announce it. The other thing I would tell you is even if we weren't finished today, I wouldn't tell anybody I'm not trying to tell anybody till every transmitter in the field is was compatible because it will be different. version of the firmware on the transmitter. And while it was still be seamless on your iPhone or your Android phone, it will look the same if we announced direct to watch, and then we have a bunch of transmitters in the field that don't go director will watch, we're creating a tech support issue that will just again lead to patients being upset. So we're working on it, it's just a ways out and all these opportunities or engineering, things we have to get done are not just caused by Dexcom, either. There's Apple things that we just have to understand better. They work very closely with this. They're very helpful. It's just taking a lot of time. Sure. Stacey Simms 18:34 Well, thanks for the update on that. It's nice to know, you know, there's always a fear that these features may not get rolled out right. There's always a fear that and I know you know, this is the type one community that we see CGM makers and other technology companies looking at the the enormous type 2 market which has very different needs very different wants, and that we will be left behind so the watches I mean, it's a little bit dramatic to put it in that way. Looking at direct watch, but you understand what I'm talking about, right? Kevin Sayer 19:03 Yeah, I do. And I let me respond to that a little bit, please do. You're right. There are a lot more people with type two diabetes, type 1 diabetes, but there is nothing that we do for people with type 1 diabetes, that can't create a great experience for people with type two diabetes. I would argue that the good things we do for type one patients translate better over to type two then heading down a path with lesser accuracy, or lesser connectivity or fewer features. You're much smarter to make a product performance is superb level and then make the changes software related rather than then system related. And rather than sensor related, which is the way we're doing it now. Or you know, there was a big fear that g7 would be a type two product only hired that from a lot of patients because barely our partner been a great partner has been very much focused on type two where they're on duo, a managed diabetes management program, but that's not the case. We We will launch our g7 system with his ice ice jam label current plans are a legit person in the type one space. After that, even with G six, we can adapt the G six platform to a type two patient that has a different software experience. It doesn't detract at all from what we do for our core market. And where we sit today, the most important thing to do is to get a like if you get accuracy and performance and reliability and consistency, you can take that anywhere. And that meets our type one patients need and will also gives us the business flexibility that we need to go forward. But we're not going to do that if we were looking at something for another market. And I'm speaking way out in the future. today. It might be another platform that would measure multiple analyze that wouldn't have ice jam accuracy for glucose, but you'd have some combination of pick for analytics glucose, ketones, lactic acid, some other one where it's maybe 20% lack less accurate all four but you get a picture of everything. That's more of a diagnostic As we look at sensors in the future, that's something we would consider. But that's, you know, that's advanced r&d and something that we would look at. We don't have an intention of going a different direction right now. We believe that the features we have we can migrate to type two without compromising our current patient base. Stacey Simms 21:18 All right, let's talk about some specific type one stuff. And let's talk about following up. And no pun intended there. I apologize on the share and follow issues from late last year, you put out a very sincere apology, you really seem to have taken some steps. I appreciate that. I'm sure it couldn't have been too easy to put that video out, and we appreciate it. Kevin Sayer 21:40 But no, actually, I didn't tell you that that did not bother me at all. We couldn't put it out until we knew the answers. But that's the way we run this company. And that's the way I will always behave. If we do something that doesn't work. You own it. You don't hide and I wanted to do the video of the day with day one and Gemma calming me down, I wanted to write a letter or reduce something I was wasn't happy that we could not go faster. But now we will always behave that way will never behave any differently. Stacey Simms 22:13 I have some questions. Go ahead. Alright. Alright. So my first one is, you've updated the website and I'll put a link in the show notes where people can go to check in just last week, there were a couple of issues that were resolved quickly. But I noticed that what happened to me I'll give you my personal story. I noticed on my follow app for my son that we had lost signal, there was a brief notification, I apologize. I can't remember what it said. But something like you know, server error, but something came up a little teeny red line on the app. I cleared it without even looking at it too closely. And I went on my way because I don't My son is 15 I don't look at the follow up as much as some other parents do. But then on a Facebook group, someone said go and check the Dexcom page because They're updating the situation there is an issue. Great. So we all went. But my first question is, you will have announced, I believe that you're working on push notifications of some kind, because it didn't occur to me and maybe shame on me to go to the website. So can you talk about the timeline for that and what those in app notifications will be? Kevin Sayer 23:19 Sure. But let's go back a step we said and I said in the video, two things we're working on it immediately is a server status page and a product status page on our on our website. So you can go to the Dexcom website, and you can see how the system is functioning. And you can see that clarity is functioning Share and Follow how they're functioning, and we give an update to those in real time, will then implement before in the first half of the year, we're two months into the year almost before the end of June, we will have in app messaging to whereby if there is a share or follow or clarity or whatever issue we can send a message directly to the patient and are the followers servers are down, this is what's going on and it will come in the app won't come through text messaging yet. That'd be something we would do a little bit later. And in all fairness, I don't know that we have everybody's phone numbers to whereby we can push text, but we can't push to the app into the app users. So that'll be here by by mid June. As far as anything going on Recently, there were a couple times when the status page was yellow. And they worked through those quite quickly learning from what's gone on in the past and got that resolved. And we're now establishing the boundaries for what example what yellow server status means, on our webpage. Because when we started this and just adding totally, one of the the apps had yellow and it's happened to two clinics in the whole country. But since it happened to two clinics, we made it yellow, just in case it happened anyplace else on reality. That was the two words had happened and we dealt with it so we're being rather cautious is causing anything that we We will make it yellow over time, we'll put, you know tighter boundaries around that. But we will make it yellow. We'll work through the issues. We've improved our internal communications, I knew something was going on from the minute that thing went yellow, I was getting notifications. And I was I was traveling, so it's going much better. And we'll build a structure up and continue to make it better. That's all I can tell you. So we'll keep improving. Stacey Simms 25:24 And I know that you'll be researching this, but I'll give you some patient feedback real quick is that please don't text me. You don't need my phone number in app notification. Kevin Sayer 25:34 Okay. Yeah, I would rather not understand. balance that with everybody else because you're catching a flight for the airport, what happens? You get a text message. So the expectation since we're on your phone is we have the same infrastructure we just don't Stacey Simms 25:53 do what I don't get a text message from the airline. I get a notification from the app. It shows up on my similarly you get a text from Because you probably, Kevin Sayer 26:01 I guess it depends I Yeah, I know. Anyway, you have to be more like everything else that people experience. Stacey Simms 26:08 Exactly. Okay, so I have a couple of questions. Many of these questions that I've asked have actually already come from my listeners. Of course, we all have a lot of the same questions. But here are a few that people sent in. Rachel, as we're staying here on the follow up. Rachel wanted to know, if you're still working on having the follow app getting same notifications as the primary app, because all of us parents, especially with older kids, now, we never know when the sensors is expiring when the transmitters expiring, is there any work being done to get the follow up to be a little bit more robust for parents work any caregiver? Kevin Sayer 26:43 Yeah, we're continuing to work on the follow up and add add more to it. I think it'll be continual development cycle and will continue to add more. I will tell you from the teenager or the college students share a perspective the last thing they want is their parents. Getting The alerts from their app. I know that firsthand, because I talked to a couple of No, no, no, no. And so we try and balance it all. We will make the the share system more robust as time goes on. Because if we learned anything thing from the server outage, we learned how important share was. It is very important to everybody. Stacey Simms 27:19 Yeah. And all due respect, when you have the first update, when you could make it for 10 followers. You know, not every kid wants everybody their school following them either. I mean, but these have to be parental decisions with good education. So, you know, I think I get what you're saying. But these are all, let's just see, these are wonderful problems technology has created. I try to leave them alone. Alright, so. Okay, the next question came from a few people. And Gosh, I don't know if you can answer this, because this is more anecdotal, but we've been using the G six since May or June of 2018. And it seems to me Just in the last two months, I have seen pictures and heard anecdotal reports of sensors getting stuck at insertion to the point where in my smaller I have a smaller local Facebook group. People are posting the things they have used to whack the sensor because you're supposed to, apparently on Facebook, you whack it with a wooden spoon to get it to release or there might be a button underneath that you can push a pin in. But this is something that we haven't experienced, but that I've seen in the last two months. Are you aware of this? Is this an actual problem that Kevin Sayer 28:33 just so you understand, we monitor every complaint and everything that's coming very closely, we have seen a rise in those instances. Fortunately, it doesn't result in a patient getting bad data or anything bad happen. We just have to replace their sensor. We've identified the root cause of that and we've taken mitigations to correct that and that should come down going forward. We have this this Not this specific issue, but the fact is when we see things rise in the complaint base, we have a group of sustaining engineering group that jumps on these issues and determines where they came from. we've analyzed this, this specifically and we've implemented improvements and you will see that decreasing significantly over the next several months that should go away. Stacey Simms 29:20 Okay, cuz I know the good news is there isn't as readings issue, but the bad news is there's a freakout issue. Kevin Sayer 29:26 There's a freakout issue and let's face it, if that's your last sensor, yeah, that's not fair. And that's not right. So we notice it, we've seen it we've read it and we have we've done everything we can to mitigate that I'm pretty I'm very comfortable we’ll see this come down. Stacey Simms 29:41 Okay, but I'm glad to hear that. Is there actual advice of what to do if it happens? Is there the release underneath? I'm assume whack it with a spoon isn't something that you recommend? Kevin Sayer 29:54 Now we’re in anecdotes and I can’t speak to that. The easiest thing is call us and we’ll get us a new sensor as fast as we can. Stacey Simms 30:02 I gotta ask. I got a couple of questions from listeners who are asking about outside the United States. Obviously our listeners are USA centric, but there are many, many, many in the UK and Australia and Canada. Can you talk a little bit about jif six and G seven, internationally. Kevin Sayer 30:19 So g six is in Canada now. We launched it there in the fourth quarter. We also launched in Canada, any commerce platform reimbursement is not brought in Canada. Many of the patients have to cover the costs on their own. So we have tried to make it easier and Canada is the first place we've ever had an e commerce platform where patients can literally go online and buy their sensitive transmitters have them shipped directly to them without having to deal with this has been a very efficient and a tremendous growth driver up there. A lot more people are getting access to speech him in Canada because of that. That's been a great experience. g six has been available in the UK for quite some time. And again, the UK business is I want to say three reacts when it was two years ago. So we're doing very well there also, reimbursement is coming, but it is sporadic. It isn't everywhere. We spent a lot of time with government authorities pleading our case, the importance of CGM, and we found that educational process great. they've jumped on board and learn a lot Australia, g six is coming. I know it's not broadly rolled out, but it will certainly be a 2020 product there and should do very well in Australia as well. Government reimbursement, for CGM in Australia has gone very well. Here today. It is growing nicely, are all US strategy. We really have three pillars that we're working on, you know, first those countries we're reversing, that is good. We gotta broaden there. We have to increase access in countries where reimbursement is sporadic. And the UK, Spain where I am Italy, some of those places is very sporadic. Some regions it's reimbursed others it's not. Yeah. And then there is where we don't play it all. Yeah, we're very well In Central and South America, or Mexico, where we've got a filing in Japan virtue six, but we're not launched there yet. Stacey Simms 32:08 I'm gonna start this question right here. And it's my fault because I'm running over time. And I want to get one more question in. So I apologize. One more question. Okay, so diabetes mine ran a column recently that was headlined 39 potential new continuous glucose monitors for diabetes. Now a lot of these are pie in the sky. We know many won't come to market, but they went through and listed a bunch of new CGM that are going to be your competition. My last question is about customer service. Talk to us about how you're going to improve, maintain, really try to over serve in terms of customer service, because you know, that in the last year or two as the launch of the G six was a challenge, because of supply, customer service has got to be a challenge too. So my last question is, assure us that it's going to be okay from a customer service standpoint. Kevin Sayer 32:58 Well for us, it will be Well, I will tell you the one thing we've learned this year, more than anything else is scale. It's very difficult. And I just throw some numbers at you. Two years ago, we announced that the JPMorgan conference we had 270,000 active patients. That means we have patients that we know are buying and using sensors. Okay. I announced in an earnings call a week ago that we have 650,000 active using sensor patients. You can imagine the number of sensors we have to produce above and beyond that the number of phone calls we take, we will make customer service priority but scale is a huge challenge here and it is not cheap. We will spend hundreds of millions of dollars getting the g7 factory up and running before you see a sensor. We will invest hundreds of millions of dollars in G six at the same time, getting the factory automated getting the sensors more reliable. At the same time as we looked at the customer experience. There's a lot of things we can do. We have formed an entire customer experience Team at Dexcom over the past 12 months To go back and look at how we interact with people is 43 screens to start up the G six, new from scratch. Why is it 43 screens was because it was 43 screens and we did seven plus or G for whatever, we did the same thing. We're go back and re evaluating all those things to make it easier. I believe also on the customer service side, we do need to get better. But we need to get better a couple of ways. Product reliability is the first thing if we make it so you never have to call them customer service gets that much easier. But inevitably patients are going to, I believe personally that software can alleviate a lot of customer concerns. As we look to the future we look at putting tech support in the app to whereby I'll give you an example if your sensor poops out at eight days, it says Hey, your sensor quantitate days hit yes and we'll send you a new one. We're looking at things like this to make it much easier for our patients to work with us. We We purposely went offshore to set up a customer service center because quite frankly, we could not hire enough resources here to Do so that is going better as well on the distribution channel and make it simpler. We're going to the drugstore with future products and moving g six there. So there's not as much interaction as well. But I can tell you the customer service piece is every bit as hard if not harder than the technology piece. And we take it that seriously and we will over the next several years. Stacey Simms 35:18 Seven, thank you so much for spending some time with me. I apologize to your people because I kept you too long. But I always appreciate talking with you. Kevin Sayer 35:25 Thank you very much. Unknown Speaker 35:32 You're listening to Diabetes Connections with Stacey Simms. Stacey Simms 35:38 I couldn't get to everybody's questions from the Facebook group. I apologize for that. But as you heard, we ran out of time he was doing back to back to back interviews. I don't know who was next in the queue. I'm sorry. I did make him a couple of minutes late. But just a couple of quick thoughts on on my talk with Kevin they're listening back and I do listen back to almost every interview before we air it. I sounded so offended about the text messages. Do not like that I don't know about you. I want text messages to be from my family, friends and emergencies. I'll take text messages from school, and maybe some alerts. But I want my apps to notify me through the app. And I want to be able to opt in and out of that. I know a lot of people disagree. You know, if you listen to the show for a long time, we don't use share and follow like a lot of parents, I have never let any school personnel follow my kid. We do not see the need, but that is us. So you know, I understand Dexcom has to do its market research and make everybody as happy as they can. The other thing that occurred to me is that when he talked about going direct to watch, and not announcing it, right, waiting till all the transmitters are out there and then announcing it. My first thought was and so many of us who listen are part of the DIY community. I don't know what you do or how you do it. But the first thing that occurred to me was it's going to take five minutes for these DIY folks to figure out that different transmitters are out there. So I'm relying on you to let us all know because I have a feeling As soon as they start shipping whenever that is and he didn't indicate when, you know, I mean really how long it's going to take people to notice that it's direct to watch because I know there are people out there who every time they get a new transmitter their check up next, tell me something good with one of my favorite past guests, Sierra Santa said, we will tell you what she is up to now she was in the Miss America Pageant just a few years back. But first, as I mentioned, Diabetes Connections is brought to you by Dexcom. And here's what I have to say about Basal IQ. Now, you know, we switched over to control IQ. But the first iteration of this the first software was basal IQ, the Dexcom g six tandem pumps software program. And when we got it, we started doing less work for better results. Should I say that again? less work, better results with diabetes. Vinny always liked seeing his CGM on his pump. But you know, before this change that was really just kind of a cool feature. I mean, he really didn't pull this pump out just to check a CGM. He looked at his phone, but there was some serious sauce and the basal IQ that kept many more steady. His timing range increased significantly when we started on basal IQ. And his agency, you know, we don't share specific numbers, but not only did it come down, it stayed down. It has been the same, really for more than a year. Now, as I think about it, it's just been great. Of course, individual results may vary. To learn more, just go to diabetes, connections dot com and click on the Dexcom logo. Right, tell me something good. Really My favorite part of every show. Send me your good news stories for those of you not familiar with Sierra Sandison, and I think most of you probably are, she was in the Miss America Pageant in 2014. I had to look that up because I can't believe it's it's been that long already. But she went on stage first in the Miss Idaho pageant in July of 2014, with her insulin pump, clipped to her bikini bottom, you know, when they had the swimwear competition, and then she created the hashtag Show me your pump, which went viral. And I didn't know this till recently, it was NPR as most popular online story that year. Well, then she walked the runway again at the Miss America Pageant with the insulin pump again on her bathing suit. And you know, we all went bananas. Well, since then Sierra has gone back to school. She's at Boise State University. She's at the College of Engineering there. And last week, she won her team. She's on a team for this, she won invent for the planet. This is a competition where engineering teams come up with inventions and solutions to make the world's a better place. So they only had 48 hours to do this. It's a pretty wild competition. I will link up more information about it so you can see exactly what happened there. And I'll put some pictures in the Facebook group too. But it's a team looks like a team of five people and Sierra posted. We slaved away at the 48 hour event for the planet competition this weekend and it paid off. We had so much fun and so little sleep, but then it gets even better. Couple of days later, she was recognized by the Idaho Society of Professional Engineers. As the number one student in her class of mechanical engineers, she writes, I am so humbled and still in shock this week seems too good to be true. Thank you to everyone who helped me get to where I am today. I hope to make you proud and keep wearing pink while doing it. Every time I talked to Sierra, you know, it's easy to forget that she is brilliant, right? We look at the bathing suit, which is how most of us first saw her and we're distracted by that. I mean, I'll be honest with you. When I look at Sierra, I'm always thinking about how bad my hair looks because she always looks gorgeous. Her hair looks great. Her makeup looks great. I have joked with her about setting her up to do a clinic for moms at like a friends for life conference that because we all need to walk around with a ton of makeup. I don't know she doesn't all the time either. Just because it's fun, right? It would be kind of fun to learn how to do pageant makeup like that. I'm getting way off topic, but it's So easy to forget when a woman is beautiful that she is also brilliant. And I think that that is so important to keep in mind. And I'm so thrilled that she is so far forward in sharing all of these accomplishments and not compromising what she enjoys, which seems to be engineering and wearing pink and looking fabulous. So Sierra, thanks for continuing to include us in your journey. I cannot wait to see what you do next. Just let us know when you're taking over the world who would appreciate a little bit of a heads up if you have a Tell me something good. Please send it my way. You can email it to me Stacy at Diabetes Connections. com reach out through social media the Facebook group is a really easy way to do it every once in a while I'll post and ask and other Facebook groups but please seek me out I would love to hear from you. Help me spread the Good News in our community. As this episode goes live, it is the last week of February I don't know January dragged by February flew by I'm afraid to The page to March that we have a lot going on. I have three appearances for the book tour. I'm going to be in Wilmington, North Carolina, Winston Salem, North Carolina, and then over to Indianapolis, for the friends for life conference there. I am getting requests for the fall already definitely booking things in September. I think I have something in December already. So if you'd like me to come speak to your group, reach out. I'm trying not to do too many of these a month. I'm trying not to travel every single weekend because I still do have Benny at home even though my daughter's in college. So it's a lot of balancing juggling going on, but I'm loving every minute of it. Our next episode is coming up on Thursday, I'm going to be talking about a little bit of a Twitter kerfuffle. I don't know if any of you saw this if you're on Twitter, but there was a bit of a disagreement started by an eye doctor, a disagreement between how many doctors see their duty to give patients a wake up call and how people with diabetes actually view that wake up call and a real big gulf between these two groups on this One Twitter chat, unfortunately. So I want to share that with you and maybe how we can get our doctors to listen a little bit more. Alright. Alright, thanks as always to my editor john Kenneth from audio editing solutions. Thank you so much for listening. Joining me, please spread the word about this show. Word of mouth is the best way to grow a show like this. We can get more good information into the hands of people who really need it. So post it on your Facebook page, tell a friend who's touched by diabetes about it. I'd really appreciate it. I'm Stacey Simms. I'll see you back here on Thursday. Unknown Speaker 43:37 Diabetes Connections is a production of Stacey Simms media. All rights reserved. All rounds avenged Transcribed by https://otter.ai

Chelsea & Grace teach each other about salad and manure. Ah, reminds me of the good 'ole days! (That'll make more sense later.) This episode has everything: Shakespeare, croutons, and history changing poop. Come see for yourself! But don't get pink eye...

How Happy People View The World Did you know that happy people view the world differently? They don't wear rose-colored glasses. They have a better way: 1) Happy people accept that life brings problems.    2) Happy people recognize that problems are a privilege that comes with being alive. 3) Happy people get frustrated, but don't give up. Problems are normal. 4) Happy people accept responsibility for solving problems. 5) Happy people deal with anything life throws at them, get a good night's sleep, and do it all over again. I wonder? If you view problems with a positive attitude - was there ever a problem? That'll get you thinking.

This week, a look at a way of eating for all types of diabetes that sounds – frankly – really hard to do. But the guys behind it say it’s the key for lowering insulin resistance for all types of diabetes. Check out Stacey's new book: The World's Worst Diabetes Mom! Robby Barbaro is the co-author of a new book called Mastering Diabetes. We’ll talk about what he actually eats now and why he’s so passionate about this. He has a pretty compelling story. Join the Diabetes Connections Facebook Group! Robby mentions Volumetrics (more here) In TMSG – when an avid scuba diver is diagnosed with type 1, she finds a way to get back in – and under – the water. Plus, a little bit of a control iq update for us – we’ll tell you how it’s working out. Sign up for our newsletter here This podcast is not intended as medical advice. If you have those kinds of questions, please contact your health care provider. ----- Use this link to get one free download and one free month of Audible, available to Diabetes Connections listeners! ----- Get the App and listen to Diabetes Connections wherever you go! Click here for iPhone      Click here for Android Episode transcription Stacey Simms  0:00 Diabetes Connections is brought to you by One Drop created for people with diabetes by people who have diabetes, by Real Good Foods, real food, you feel good about eating, and by Dexcom take control of your diabetes and live life to the fullest with Dexcom.   Announcer  0:21 This is Diabetes Connections with Stacey Simms.   Stacey Simms  0:27 This week, I look at a way of eating that sounds frankly, really hard to do. But the guys behind it say it's the key for lowering insulin resistance in people with all types of diabetes, even so, it seems a little extreme.   Robby Barbaro  0:42 And I come down to the Christmas Day meal and I literally have a pyramid of bananas. We're talking four bananas on the bottom and three then to the true pyramid of ripe bananas. And that's how the practice was done. They were just shaking their head like this. They were kind of laughing and thinking this is not And Alas, there's no way because they've seen me try out different diets over the years.   Stacey Simms  1:03 Robby Barbaro is the co author of a new book called Mastering Diabetes. We'll talk about what he actually eats now and why he is so passionate about this. He has a pretty compelling story in Tell me something good. When an avid scuba diver is diagnosed with type one, she finds a way to get back in and under the water. Plus a little bit of a Control IQ update for us. We'll tell you how it's working out. This podcast is not intended as medical advice. If you have those kinds of questions, please contact your health care provider.   Welcome to another week of Diabetes Connections. I'm your host Stacey Simms, so glad to have you along. We aim to educate and inspire by sharing stories of connection when it comes to type one diabetes. My son was diagnosed right before he turned two and that was 13 years ago now. My husband lives with type two diabetes. I do not have Diabetes, but I do have a background in broadcasting in radio and television local news. And that's how you get the podcast. A lot to talk about this week, we will get to Mastering Diabetes in just a moment. But I want to give you a quick update on our experience transitioning over to tslim X2 insulin pump along with a Dexcom G6 continuous glucose monitor. And then the Control IQ is the software that is in the pump. If you're not interested in this, if you're not using this kind of pump, or if you are on MDI or, you know, just skip ahead a few minutes. I do have time codes as always in these newer transcribed episodes for this year. So you can open the episode homepage, open the notes, and you can skip right ahead to the interview. But if you want to know about our control IQ experience, here's how it's going. We were able to get the new software very early On we got it I want to say the third week of January, we did not get it without issue. Benny's pump was one of the few that could not be updated by plugging it in. There was some issue with the software update that was already in the pump. And even everybody who had that version of the software, only a very small percentage, my understanding couldn't actually plug into the computer and update. Anyway, tandem sent us a new pump with Control IQ on it. And of course, I was to send the old pump back. So we updated immediately it started doing its thing. I will go into more detail about after a month of using it, we're going to sit down and talk about it. But Wow, it really made a difference right away. The problem was that it was tanking him he was going low, overnight, every night. And I try to not make changes until about two or three days. Right. We have to kind of see how things go. You don't want to overreact. So he went low the first three nights. And then of course we changed it because I'm talking down to 40 you know for extended periods of time. We cut way back on basal. We also cut insulin sensitivity, which really shouldn't affect it when it's in that sleep mode because the sleep mode doesn't give boluses. But we cut back on that anyway because it seemed to be having some issues with corrections during the day really making him go lower than he should have been having to suspend insulin. After that. It really smoothed out. He was using less insulin. He was in range in a very much increased amount of time. You could see his numbers were coming down. It was really cool. Even on a day where he completely forgot to bolus for a big brownie in the afternoon. He went way up, but he didn't stay up. And if you've done that, you know that at least for us, you know if you have like, I mean really, let's be honest, 50 uncovered carbs 40, 50 uncovered carbs. You're going to go up to 300 and stay there for a while. But Control IQ. He did have to bolus but Control IQ brought him down really quickly. It was great. But unfortunately, it didn't stay great. About two weeks in his pump, the brand new pump that they had just sent us with the update, gave us one of those alarms that you can't reset. Oh my goodness. So I was actually on my way out of town. That was the weekend I was heading to Maine. And Benny was going to be leaving that afternoon for the two day wrestling tournament. So again, he could have done shots, but we were just like, oh, my goodness, you know, what are we going to do? Well, I hadn't actually sent that other pump back yet. It was on my list of things to do, I promise, but I hadn't gotten around to it. So luckily, he put on the old basal IQ pump, the previous software, my husband called tandem, and you know, they went through the troubleshooting is this an alarm that can be cleared? It could not. So they overnighted another Control IQ pump, and I put return the pump on my list of things to do yet again, but then, okay, so then he is at a two day wrestling tournament. It was supposed to be one day, unless they won, which they did, which meant they went to the state championships which spoiler alert, they won. So it was two days of travel and crazy food and then celebration food. parties. Oh my goodness. And as you know if you've been listening while Benny's not actually wrestling this season, he's actually more like the manager because he hurt his knee. So he's doing great, very exciting to be a freshman and have the first school state championship for the wrestling team was very, very cool. But anyway, alright, so back to the pump situation. So then on Sunday, he's home. He's got the new control, like pump on and then early Monday morning, I want to say five o'clock in the morning, transmitter failure. Not you know, we're not sure not sensor error, not sensor failure, transmitter error for the Dexcom. So Benny turned it off. I didn't even know he just kind of clicked off and went back to sleep until six. I mean, he got one more hour of sleep. That transmitter was two weeks old. It's not supposed to crap out that early, of course. So we had to pull the sensor the transmitter put a whole new set on. Of course I called Dexcom. They replaced everything. But then we're another day really a day and a half between everything that was going on with that. Control IQ so I can say what it's working thumbs up when the technology's not working, which will happen, right? He's fine. I mean, we could always go back to shots, certainly, but who wants to do that? So little frustrating, but we moved forward. The only advice I have if you're about to start Control IQ, if you're thinking about it, if you haven't made the switch over yet, is, I would highly recommend and please talk to your endocrinologist before doing this, make the change for insulin duration, change over to five hours now, because that's not negotiable on the Control IQ system. And most of us have it set frankly, incorrectly, because we're making up for it in other ways. A lot of studies have been done in this I'm sure if you're familiar at all with Control IQ, you've heard this, but if you haven't, one of the things we did was set the insulin duration to five hours several weeks before starting. And I think it really helped us in the transition. Something to think about something to talk to your endo about and then you just Gotta be patient, make changes slowly and let it do its job. It's so hard when we're used to managing these dumb pumps, right and do this, do that and stay on top of that. To let it do its thing is very difficult. Okay, let's get to Mastering Diabetes in just a moment. But first Diabetes Connections is brought to you by Real Good Foods and new brand new from them stand alone crusts, so you can create your own pizza but whatever toppings you want, but this is a cook and serve pizza crust, grain free. It's made with cauliflower. I mean, you know Real Good Foods. They're delicious. high in protein, low and carb grain free gluten free. Lots of varieties. I mean, they have the pizzas that have great toppings on them. They have stuffed chicken, they have breakfast sandwiches, huge variety. I like it because it's really easy to find in my grocery store freezer, but you can go online and order the whole shebang. Find out all the different products that they have and mix and match. Find out more go to diabetes dash connection. dot com and click on the Real Good Foods logo.   My guest this week is one of the authors of the new book Mastering Diabetes. These guys also have a podcast, Robby Barbaro and Dr. Cyrus Khambatta say, focusing on lowering insulin resistance through food is the key to living well, with all types of diabetes. Robby lives with type one. And I promise he's really not saying anything out of bounds here, like, you know, this is going to get you off insulin or this is a cure, but there are some unconventional thoughts that he shares in this interview. As always, when I talked to people who are focusing on a particular way of eating, and I do this all the time, we've talked to people who eat low carb people, you know, high fat keto, people who are making these claims on the podcast. This is not something that I verify or confirm during the interview, and do my best to give you all the information. But again, before you make any changes, please talk to your endo. I really did enjoy talking to Robby. Here's our conversation. Robby, thank you so much for joining me. I am so intrigued by everything I have read and heard. Thanks for coming on,   Robby Barbaro  10:09 Stacey. It's really an honor to be here. I love your show. And the fact that I'm getting to be on it is just really exciting to me.   Stacey Simms  10:15 Oh, thank you so much. We have so much to talk about. I have so many questions for you. But I want to start at your beginning. You had a fairly typical from what I seen onset of type one diabetes as a teenager as a tween, really, but you were diagnosed by your brother.   Robby Barbaro  10:31 Yes, it truly is a fascinating story. So I'm on January 26. That'll be the day that I have lived with Type One Diabetes for 20 years. So I was 12 just about to turn 13 and I complained to my mom, I said, Mom, I am thirsty all the time. I'm going to the bathroom all the time. I think I have diabetes, just like Steve so I have two older brothers. The middle one Steve was diagnosed with Type One Diabetes eight years prior to me and I was pretty sure I had diabetes around said no, no, I don't think you do. Don't Don't be silly. I said, Okay, fine. And then eventually, she went out of town to go look at homes in Florida where we eventually moved. So it was just myself and my middle brother at home. And she called the check in and she said, Hey, how are things going? I said, Mom, I couldn't sleep last night, I was cramping. She said, Okay, go upstairs. Use your brother's bug because meter test yourself. And I was well over 400. And my brother said, right there in there, okay. You have Type One Diabetes pack, your bags are going to be the hospital for a few nights. So we went to the regular general doctor, they ran a few tests. And I remember the doctor coming in said, Yep, you have type one diabetes, we're going to send you to the hospital. And that was the first time I had seen my brother crying, as you know, as an adult. And he said, Oh, man, just sorry. You have to experience this too. And my parents flew home the next night. And this mother thing that really stayed with me as my dad saying, Don't worry, it's just an infant. convenience, you can still do whatever you want in life. And that was really the mentality that my parents had. And really, they were very, very supportive, very encouraging. And really let myself and my brother really take charge of our diabetes care. And, you know, we were we were both already, you know, type a people that really were on top of it, and we had good medical care from the Mayo Clinic. So it didn't really crush me. You know, I really had a really supportive environment had the tools I needed, and it just began a new life with Type One Diabetes. Stacey I'm really intrigued by your brother's reaction because on the one hand here, you have a brother who's nine years older than you you look up to him, I'm sure and you see that he's probably doing pretty well with this. So on the one hand, it's okay I'm gonna be fine. But then he gets emotional. And he says for you, so that's the had to have been tough to digest as a kid, like I'm going to be okay but there is the sadness too   Robby Barbaro   12:55 play the sure the whole thing was honestly it kind of like, I can I sort of remember certain bits and pieces. I remember driving in the car and talking to my parents on the phone. And just it didn't really, it didn't hit me like I didn't kind of fully understand what was going on. But I guess I just ease into it. And at some point, I guess you just you don't really have a choice. It is what it is, you know? Yeah,   Stacey Simms  13:19 no doubt. So the years go on, I assume that you were treated more traditionally in terms of you start on insulin, you're eating particular diet, you know, your parents are keeping you busy in school. But you had other health issues as a teen   Robby Barbaro  13:35 I did. I had plantar fasciitis, which was frustrating. I was a competitive tennis player. So that's really a painful, painful feeling in your feet when you're walking and trying to run so I would wear these big blue boots at nights to try and help with passive stretching to do plantar fasciitis. I had chronic allergies are all the time, so I took Nathan x and Claritin. D and I would still get sick. As a teenager. I had cystic Acme, which was really frustrating and I tried everything microdermabrasion treatments, laser treatments, oral creams, like oral medical or eye creams for my face and oral medications. Eventually, they put me on Accutane. And that's one of the most serious drugs you can take for acne, your parents actually have to sign a waiver, because some people have committed suicide and that drug. So I also had warts on my feet. So these were just a collection of you know, frustrating, I think, standard symptoms that a lot of people have. Wow.   Stacey Simms  14:33 So when did all the fruit stuff start? When did you decide?   Robby Barbaro  14:38 I mean, I'm sorry. Yeah. I mean, I'll tell you the journey to get into the fruit stuff. So growing up, this is when I was living in Minnesota, you know, doing standard diabetes care. I went to the Mayo Clinic in Rochester, Minnesota with a Vincent cloud, and we would go there and they just had a great team. We had an endocrinologist. I had a dietitian, I had a psychologist. So it was a team effort. There. And the key thing I remember learning from them was like using a log book and actually got quite good at that. But I had standard care. And my dad was into selling supplements through a network marketing company and getting exposed to what they were teaching and some of their educational material was the very beginning of me really considering Okay, wait a minute, there's something to nutrition there's something to diet outside of just following a standard American diet, not really thinking about it. So that was the beginning. And it was a slow evolution of learning. Okay, wait a minute, you know, trying to avoid additives or foods like MSG, like that's good. That's a good idea for your overall health. And I slowly progressed. Eventually, I came across many different lifestyles. But as I was on this journey of learning as much as I could, I came across a book called natural cures they don't want you to know about by Kevin Trudeau. Now, I'm not recommending this book. This guy ended up in jail. Yeah, there's, there's some things I'm not recommending it. But I came across this book, and it planted a seed in my mind that you know what, maybe it's possible to reverse type one diabetes. If I just eat as healthy as humanly possible and I take care of my body. Maybe I can put myself in such a healthy state that my body will regenerate new beta cells. And now it's just it was the theory the hypothesis. Okay, wait a minute. Like, I know other people haven't done this. But hey, somebody has to do it first. You know, for example, Roger Bannister was the first person to run four minute mile. And before he did, the smartest people in the world said that's impossible, your heart will explode. And once he did it, other people started doing it. So I do think we're gonna we're gonna figure this out at some point some way how to get beta cells to work again. Naturally, I do believe that but that's not happened. So I go down this mission of Okay, I will do anything and everything to give my body the best chance of healing itself. So I started learning about the concept of fasting. So fasting is when you when you go to bed at night, you're doing like a mini fast and you in the morning you eat breakfast you're breaking your fast and healing and regeneration happens over that time. So it's okay, you know what type of dietary habits can I do to increase the chance of my body healing itself. And this led me to try summarize, the first thing I tried was a Weston a price foundation diet, and that was eating a lot of grass fed beef. They advocate for raw milk, I remember going to farmers markets, and I would buy milk for cats because you can't sell raw milk to humans. And again, I did see some improvements as I cleaned up my diet and got rid of any sort of junk and processed food. There was definitely some improvements but I didn't see anything specific happen to my diabetes health or my insulin intake or my blood glucose control. So I continue to learn more and learn more, and eventually, I came across a dive by the name of Dr. Gabriel cousins and He was in a movie and he produced a movie called raw for 30 days. And in this movie, he showed how people following his protocol, which is essentially a plant based ketogenic diet. He didn't call it that at the time because ketogenic diets weren't really popular, but that's what it was. I would eat lots of nuts and seeds, lots of vegetables and oil. Like that's basically where my calories are coming from on this phase one, Gabriel cousins program. And you gotta remember, everything I'm doing here is with this mindset of Okay, I'm going to reverse type one diabetes, I'm going to heal this is a strong live a strong motivation. So at this point, I am a freshman in college at the University of Florida.   Stacey Simms  18:42 Okay, I'm gonna stop you right here for the question. So you're trying this experiment, you're experimenting on yourself, basically, I mean, to boil it down. And were you still seeing your endocrinologist? Were they telling you dude, you know, you're losing weight. Let's be careful was anybody giving you a push back at that point?   Right back to Robby will find out what is endo said. But first Diabetes Connections is brought to you by One Drop. getting diabetes supplies is a pain not only the ordering and the picking up but also the arguing with insurance over what they say you need and what you really need. Make it easy with One Drop. They offer personalized test strips plus you get a Bluetooth glucose meter test strips lancets and your very own certified diabetes coach. Subscribe today to get test strips for less than $20 a month delivered right to your door. No prescriptions or co pays required. One less thing to worry about. not that surprising when you learn that the founder of One Drop lives with type one, they get it One Drop gorgeous gear supplies delivered to your door 24 seven access to your certified diabetes coach, learn more, go to diabetes, connections calm and click on the One Drop logo. Now back to my interview with Robby and I'm asking him if with all the weird things he was doing with This end of gave him any pushback.   Robby Barbaro  20:06 Okay, it's a great question. Yes, I would see my endocrinologist every three months you know, you got to get your prescriptions and whatnot. And here's the interesting part I think probably a lot of people with type one are gonna have a similar experience which is unfortunate but they never asked me about my diet. Oh my god, I kid you I kid you not I have been through except for the Mayo Clinic Mayo Clinic they were very detailed. They asked me everything I need, they log it, they kept track of it, but after that, they had two different endocrinologist in Florida. And I think I've had one different one in Los Angeles and not a single one of them not a single appointment. Have they asked me exactly what foods do you eat? Not one.   Stacey Simms  20:48 You know it's interesting because I don't think our endo and Benny's a child obviously. So he hasn't really asked me what do you eat but the they sent us to a dietitian or a nutritionist years of years ago. We never really followed up but You know, he's asked us just kind of like, you know, what are you especially when he was little? What are your favorite foods? What's your favorite fruit? What's your favorite vegetable? You know, he would kind of play. He was great with kids, you know, and ask him about that. But we definitely talked about food and he knows how we eat. So that's really fascinating. All right, so you're on the sly, nobody's following up on you. You're doing fine.   Robby Barbaro  21:17 Yeah, I mean, and the thing the key thing was, I think, from the endocrinologist perspective, give them a little bit of credit, I guess, is that my a one sees were always quite good.   Stacey Simms  21:27 There was no need for them to go into.   Robby Barbaro  21:29 Yeah, exactly. There wasn't a need to like pride and how can I really help this guy? I appeared healthy. I all my other blood work was fine. My agency was fine. I think they did. Like Okay, he's doing great. Like, let's let's just call him the next patient. So at this point, this is where it gets interesting. Here's where I love to talk about the diabetes nuances because your audience because you're gonna understand this stuff. At this point. I'm a freshman at the University of Florida. And again, my mindset is how can I you know, take less and less insulin and eventually not need any That's the goal. And in hindsight, what I realize is What really matters is if you're taking lesson lessons one that's only really significant in regards to reversing type one diabetes, if you know you are also starting to produce more of your own, if your your C peptide level is increasing, if your beta cells are, you know, starting to become functional again, that would be a good thing. But in this case, I was dropping and dropping man. So I took at this point, I was taking 10 total units of insulin per day, I was using only fast acting insulin. And I was actually still doing it through MDI, which I would not recommend, but I would actually take small injections throughout the night, and I was eating 30 grams of carbohydrate per day no more than 30 grams. So my carbohydrate insulin ratio was three to one, and that's a metric of insulin sensitivity. So you can calculate your 24 hour insulin sensitivity by taking your total carbohydrate consumption, dividing it by your total insulin consumption. This was good like I was getting so excited. Eventually I reached a plateau I thought it was dropping and dropping and dropping that just fader on 10. And the problem was, I had terribly low energy and I was losing weight. That was the big problem. I couldn't keep weight on. And I was on campus, several situations I just basically blacked out, I'd have to stop, you know, that feeling of Okay, wait a minute what's going on, I have to like, recalibrate, you know, get home rest. And it was scary. So I went back to my naturopath who I'd seen throughout high school who helped me with a lot of supplements and food sensitivities, stuff like that and say, Okay, what can I do next? And she's okay, maybe you could benefit from therapy. And I was like, okay, maybe I'll do that. But it was gonna be very expensive. And I was gonna have to drive from Gainesville, Florida to Tampa, Florida, to be able to do this. And I was ready to commit to it. I would do anything to continue pursuing this path. Now, before I committed I heard a podcast and this is where the fruit comes in. So I heard a podcast from this guy, Doug grant, he's a chiropractor, and he was talking about how people who eat you know, healthy diets and you know, the fruit, that that can actually also help detoxify your body like the nutrient, the nutrient density can help your body eliminate, you know, heavy metals and toxic substances. So I'm like, Okay, wait a minute, this guy's tell me I get to eat all this fruit. He's telling me it's going to have these healing properties. This sounds a lot more exciting than doing the collation therapy. So I'm going to give this a shot. And that was the beginning of the journey of eating fruit. So this guy, this guy, Doug Graham, he teaches basically, you know, basically a fruitarian diet to a certain extent, I would not cannot comment on fruitarian I don't think I follow a fruitarian diet, but I started working with him. And in this is September of 2006, in December of 2006, is when his book comes out. And I read the book straight through and one of the testimonials in the back of the book is my my co founder of Mastering Diabetes, Cyrus Khumbatta. So his testimonials in the back he's also living with Type One Diabetes. He had this amazing transformation of his health and his insulin. sensitivity. And I was blown away. So I go Google his name. I learned some more. I see pictures of him on the internet like, wow, this guy's ripped. He's fit like, this is awesome. I'm really optimistic. I'm going to do this. And so I started working with Dr. Graham and I start eating lots and lots of fruit like literally the first week Ain't nothing but bananas. The second week, I hate bananas and lettuce. And then I continue to add model meals of fruit like this is the beginning I even much differently now. But   Stacey Simms  25:26 I can't wait to hear because this sounds horrible, but go ahead.   Robby Barbaro  25:30 It was really as kind of like, it was like an elimination diet to a certain extent. This is around Christmas time now of 2006. And I remember my, my grandmother was was in town for the holidays. And I come down to the Christmas Day meal and I literally have a pyramid of bananas. We're talking four bananas on the bottom and three then to the one true pyramid of ripe bananas. And that's how they eat for Christmas dinner. They were just shaking their head like this. They were kind of laughing and thinking this is not going to last so No I cuz they've seen me try a lot of different diets over the years and a little bit No, it's it's basically lasted for for 13 years now but again, here's the change the changes that I started eating all this fruit, you would think that I would then need absurd amounts of insulin to eat all this fruit so I'm eating nowadays 600 700 sometimes 800 grams of total carbohydrate per day, and the insulin I'm injecting is somewhere between like 25 and 35 units I mean, depending on how active I am, depending how consecutive my fitness has been, but like I have some Instagram story how so people can see all the details recently, it's actually been under 30 units. But the here's the the percent change. If you can't do the math of that say, like little over 30 units per day and like 700 grams carbohydrate, you're going to come up with a 24 hour insulin sensitivity ratio somewhere around like 22 to 124 the 126 to one that is a 600% change in total this instant sensitivity going from three to one to 25 221 so I'm eating all of this carbohydrate energy, but I'm not needing excessive amounts of insulin, I'm actually using a physiological normal amount of insulin. I think that's an important goal for people living with Type One Diabetes is to live a lifestyle where the insulin you're injecting is close to what your pancreas would have normally been succeeding prior to being, you know, having beta cells and not working properly.   Stacey Simms  27:28 Wait, wait, let me stop you there, because and I had lots of questions about the food. But what you're saying about the normal amount of insulin is not what I was taught. I was always taught that if my son didn't have diabetes, his pancreas would produce whatever amount of insulin he would need. So I mean, let's say you know, we're not talking about someone who's going to spend 20 years eating high fat foods, fast foods, people cupcakes every day. Let's say someone who has you know what kind of an everything in moderation diet, wouldn't their body just produce whatever amount of insulin they would need? Or have I? Is there a study or something that says no, no, you should only be producing 30 units of insulin a day?   Robby Barbaro  28:06 So it's a great question. It's an important question. So there is research that shows how much insulin a healthy human will produce, you know, over a 24 hour period, and it's somewhere between, you know, 25 and 50 units per day. That's fascinating.   Stacey Simms  28:22 I'll have to look those up. Because I really didn't realize there was a, you know, kind of a standard or normal, I just thought it was okay, if you're eating this, then that's what your body does. If you're a teenager, then this is what your body puts out if you're pregnant.,   Robby Barbaro  28:36 Absolutely. No, there's like there's definitely a range. And you know, this definitely goes into the whole research of insulin resistance and what's happening in pre diabetes and type two diabetes and you know, doctors who monitor fasting insulin levels and sort of markers like bad or to get an idea of somebody's state of health, which, again, I think it's an important conversation. That's not happening. often enough in the type one world, which is the fact that we actually can very easily monitor our insulin sensitivity type ones are the most fascinating test subjects for insulin sensitivity on a meal by meal basis. And that's sort of why part of the reason Cyrus are so passionate about what we do is because as people living with Type One Diabetes, we live, eat, sleep, and breathe insulin sensitivity on a millennial basis. And we know that that is the solution to people living with pre diabetes and type two diabetes that is the cause of their condition. It's insulin resistance. If you can learn how to reverse that and maximize insulin sensitivity and be able to utilize insulin that your pancreas is still producing, then they can just become free of diabetes. And this has been shown in peer reviewed research for almost 100 years now.   Stacey Simms  29:56 Okay, so let's go back to the food because If you told me that I was going to eat a pyramid of bananas, or Ooh, maybe add some lettuce, I would tell you that's not happening. Get out of the car, we're done. So tell me a little bit more about what you eat on a day to day basis, if you don't mind and I won't, you know, we all well, I won't judge I'm just going to say, tell me a little bit more about what you eat on a day to day basis.   Robby Barbaro  30:23 It's such an important question and I will get to what I eat. But I first I want to start off with the passion and understanding that satisfy both have for making sure that people who decide to you know follow our program or join our coaching program. Absolutely love every single meal. Like we are very passionate about that and we really work with people about getting specific feedback about the types of foods they like the texture, you know, the different flavors to add and like there's so many different ways to do this. You know, low fat plant based whole food approach that we're talking about. So we've actually put it into a very simple, easy to follow like traffic light system.   Stacey Simms  31:08 Okay, so tell me about that a meal about like a client would eat perhaps rather than what you're obviously able to limit yourself in certain ways.   Robby Barbaro  31:17 Yeah, so So basically, it's going to come down to picking specific ingredients. So we have a green light yellow light red light category. So the green light foods include fruits, starchy vegetables, lagoons, intact whole grains, then you have leafy greens, non starchy vegetables, herbs, and spices, and mushrooms, those are all the foods in the green light category. And any given meal we teach people can include any combination of those ingredients that they desire. And the reason they're green light on our program is because those are all they're very nutrient dense, they're high in water content, they're high in fiber, those are not unprocessed foods, and they also are low in their fat content. So that's really the key of what we're doing here. That's why I can eat so many grams of carbohydrate and not need an excessive amount of insulin and actually just use a physiological normal amount of insulin. It's because we have reduced our fat intake.   Stacey Simms  32:09 Okay, so give me an example of a green light meal like break it down, I'm looking at my plate what's on it.   Robby Barbaro  32:14 So for breakfast, you're going to have one to four of your favorite fruits. So this could be berries, pears, mangoes, papaya, bananas, you name it for your favorite fruits, then you're gonna have some some greens or non starchy vegetables. So it could be lettuce could be a rula. It could be cucumbers, could be zucchini, stuff like that. And also ground flaxseed or ground chia seed in order to make sure you meet your essential fatty acid requirements as an insurance policy. So just by having a small amount of those ground up, you literally automatically right then and there just in your breakfast meal have met your essential fatty acid requirements, even though it's not completely necessary because if you eat enough calories from Whole Foods You would also meet your requirements, but we're sort of doubling up and giving people an insurance policy. So fruit is our primary recommendation for breakfast. You can also have things like, you know, hash browns for breakfast, or, you know, this being breakfast dishes, there's a variety of things their lunch would include, for most people, much more starch, heavy meal. So that's things like potatoes, butternut squash, like a bean stew, something like that. But again, it's going to also have vegetables going to have herbs and spices going on, sometimes mushrooms, the after like a dinner meal. And again that that afternoon meals, the starch focus is allowing people to eat the bulk of their energy at that meal because that's when people are most active. And then you didn't have like a snack in the afternoon fruits a great snack, you know, potatoes are great snack, stuff like that. And then dinner would include, again, there's going to be a starch component of being component, maybe a fruit component, but it's going to be heavier on Vegetables because we are not as active in the evening most of us and that's a good time to really focus on the vegetable nutrient density. And then again like people could have like a dessert like a fruit based dessert. I like have something like an ice cream or something you take banana as you put it through a blender, combine it with some wild blueberries and you have it's really amazing it's delicious. So they're very simple meals like and again everything is is whole that's the that's the really the key nuance if somebody wants to like truly do it 100% but I also want to emphasize you don't need to do and hundred percent to get the results but that's unrefined whole ingredients combined into bowls. That's really how it goes. Right got   Stacey Simms  34:41 That's very, very eye opening. That's very clear. Thank you. But I have to ask I know a lot of people listening said potatoes hash browns arm people with diabetes, not supposed to be able to eat that.   Robby Barbaro  34:51 So, again, this is this is the fun part about talking to people. You know, there's many people living with type one, type two The fact that we get to test our blood glucose on niobium basis makes this condition very unique. So if somebody has heart disease or they have cancer, they can't really see that, did things get better or worse based on that specific meal, you don't really know they don't have a key metric. So I'm sure a lot of people listen to the show, have eaten a potato, eaten a starch, heavy meal, eaten some bananas, and they just saw their blood glucose skyrocket, and they're like, man, how is this guy robbing? that food is not the reason that I just saw my glucose meter go to 202 5300. And here's the deal. This is the eye opener. What's happening in that case, is you're likely again, this could be nuances around insulin timing, which I will get into for type one diabetes, but in general, let's say we're talking about type two. The reason that when you ate the banana you ate the chemo. You saw a bug because is because you're living with insulin resistance. It's because what you ate prior to that meal, which has brought about the state of insulin resistance, and what that is, insulin resistance is when your body is struggling to take glucose out of your bloodstream and into your cells. All right, and this is caused the primary cause is when there is fat stored in cells that are not designed to store fat. So your adipose tissue is designed to store fat, okay, you're supposed to have a little bit of fat in your muscle and a little bit of fat and visceral liver cells. But when you have excess, it inhibits the function of insulin, okay, influence sociopaths open the door and allow glucose to go everybody stream into yourself. When that function is not working. Your blood glucose level goes up and up and up. And that's what's happening and pre diabetes and type two diabetes that's the cause. Now, this is also a major problem for people living with Type One Diabetes Type 1.5 diabetes and insulin dependent type two. So the insulin we're injecting in Is it working as efficiently or properly, and that is the resolve. That is why a high carbohydrate meal will result in a high blood glucose reading. So as you begin to lower the fat in your diet, and these cells that have fat that's not supposed to be there starts to get cleared out, all the sudden insulin works again. So for me, I mean, for example, I just again, I'm on this whole crazy for people but I just had a lunch today that was 230 grams of carbohydrate at one meal. And I know that's more carbohydrate than some low carb people would eat an entire week. So I had mangoes I had white supposed to I had my Mesa potay I had spinach, I had a ruler, that was my lunch, I injected 4.5 units of insulin for that meal. And then I can see on my Dexcom I can see the profile it goes up, you know, maybe 131 40 comes right back down. And this is insulin sensitivity in action and anybody listening to the show can absolutely do an experiment and test that themselves and begin to observe. How can I make insulin work more efficiently in my body, it truly comes. It's wildly simple. It's wildly simple. It truly does come down to how many grams of fat you consuming per day. And we encourage people to use nutrition software to just observe this, just just gather data, just become consciously aware of how much fat you're consuming, and most people will are. It's very eye opening. It's very eye opening fat is hidden, it's hidden everywhere. And a lot of the packaged foods, a lot of simple foods have added fat to them. And it's coming in the form of oils in a lot of cases. And I'm in simple plant foods like avocados, nuts and seeds. They have a lot of fat in a very small quantity. So we're teaching is to have people not consume more than 30 grams of total fat per day. Another metric is to not exceed 15% of total calories coming from fat. Once you meet either one of those thresholds, you will absolutely positively see your insulin sensitivity improved. And again, I know in human biology, like there's a lot of complexities a lot of nuances in science, but this one is truly black and white. I have never seen one single exception in the hundreds of type ones that we've worked with thousands of people but hundreds of type ones. I have never seen a single exception of somebody increasing their whole carbohydrate content of their diet, while simultaneously decreasing the fat and not see an objective improvement insulin sensitivity they will eat more total grams carbohydrate and they will inject less insulin every single time and it will happen in a matter of days. So we run to me seed every time with retreats.   Stacey Simms  40:00 I just have to ask you. So the flip side of that is the very popular, low carb high fat diet where you're not supposed to have more than 30 grams of carbohydrates in a day. I thought that fat kept you fuller, right isn't important to have enough fat in your diet so that you feel seated.   Robby Barbaro  40:19 Okay, this is a such a fascinating cover. so important. So we wrote about this in detail in our book. And we have a whole section on calorie density and satiety. And the leader in this whole field of research is Barbara rolls at Penn State University. And she has done hundreds of studies on satiety. These are very complex studies to try and study human society and change the macronutrients of various foods is actually quite difficult. When you read the study design. You're like, wow, that's that was brilliant and very, very complicated, but it's fascinating research. And what she has found she wrote a book called volumetrics, which I'm sure many people heard about it was actually just ranked as far as like one of the best diets for 2020   Stacey Simms  41:05 volumetrics. I remember covering this like 20 years ago, the and I, what I remember from it the most is that it was all about you eat the same volume of food every day. So maybe if you had like more soup, you know, we're more healthier. So you're getting   Robby Barbaro  41:20 Yes, you're getting hit this. So the cover of the book is a bowl of soup, because her research is that society is basically water plus fiber, its bulk. It's those two things combined, which you didn't research of them isolated, like just drinking water alone does not have the same impact on society as when you have the water in a whole food with the fiber. So your point is very valid though, because So what I'm saying is there's a lot of research to point towards the diet that we're teaching here being very satisfying because of the bulk that's included the water and the fiber in every meal. So it's definitely satisfying Don't worry about that. But again, your point is valid. There are a lot of people who are doing a ketogenic diet. They're not, you know, following those principles and having a lot of bulk, but they are staying quite satisfied. So there there is an element of truth there. But when you look at the and again, that's anecdotal stuff, which I know we both heard, I have not seen much research, peer reviewed published research on that specific topic. So I think there's more to be studied. And I honestly want to have set up a podcast interview with Barbara rolls, just to ask her that specific question.   Stacey Simms  42:34 So funny, because I was a health reporter for a lot of my career. And I remember volumetrics and I drank a lot of soup. I remember it. So before I start wrapping this up, I do want to ask you, I know that your goal initially, as you said, was to try to reverse type one diabetes, right? What's going to cure this for me? And obviously you haven't stopped taking insulin. You're not at all telling people to do that. But when you look at how you're living, and What this plan and your partnership with Cyrus has led you to? Is that still in the back of your mind?   Robby Barbaro  43:06 It absolutely is in the back of my mind that we got to figure this out. There's so it just, I mean, Stacy, do you agree? Like, it doesn't seem that complicated? I mean, why can't we beta so why can't we just go? Like, like stem cells die all the time. And then there's new stem cells that create new ones, why the beta cells so difficult to recreate?   Stacey Simms  43:28 I'm not smart enough to know but I do think it's a lot more complicated. I mean, no autoimmune disease has yet been cured. So I'm very very very hopeful Don't get me wrong, but yeah, I don't I don't know that diet alone You know, of course will ever do it but I'm very the things you mentioned right there. I'm very, very hopeful about but are you still feeling like you're the walking experiment?   Robby Barbaro  43:50 So I couldn't agree more that my after 13 years of doing this, and you know, hitting plateaus of insulin use on two different approaches. I think it's good. I'll be more than diet as well, for sure. And I, hey, I would love to be the experiment like the first person that makes makes it happen. I would love for some miracle to happen. But yeah, it's it's definitely in the back of my mind. But I will definitely say it's not as much as the forefront as it was in the beginning. So the back of my mind is really the appropriate way to describe it. I think about it. I certainly try and be active in the community of researchers who's looking into this and learn from some of their research and glean insights. And I just I want to participate.   Stacey Simms  44:31 Excellent. So the book Mastering Diabetes is for everybody with all different types of diabetes. It's not just about type one, right?   Robby Barbaro  44:39 So the answer is yes. And it's really for people who are living with insulin resistance. So that's everybody with pre diabetes as everybody with type two diabetes, that's people living with gestational diabetes, and that's majority of people living with type one is 1.5 diabetes, and it's also people who don't have Diabetes yet. So in America, we have over 80 million people living with pre diabetes that don't even know it. And there's also a nurse, a big chunk of people who are living with insulin resistance who haven't gotten to type two diabetes or pre diabetes yet. So insulin resistance is really at the core of what we're teaching here. And the reason is, is because insulin resistance is the central node for a wide range of chronic health conditions. So when you're living with insulin resistance, you're increasing your risk for heart disease, for cancer, for chronic kidney disease for high blood pressure, high cholesterol, for rectal dysfunction, for depression. It's a long, long list of unfortunate conditions that are associated in some resistance. And that's part of the reason we're passionate about getting this message out to the Type One Diabetes community as well because we don't die of high blood glucose readings. We die of the complications of diabetes, number one being heart disease. So inside this book, we also cover the science and research of people who've actually been able to reverse heart disease and that whole connection between maximize your insulin sensitivity for your long term health, but also for your short term health in having more energy for getting rid of brain fog, for reaching your ideal weight. It really truly does come back to this one simple concept. If you can focus on how to maximize your insulin sensitivity, you are setting yourself up for success in the short term and the long term. So the subtitle of the book is the revolutionary method to reverse insulin resistance permanently in type one, type 1.5 type two, pre diabetes and gestational diabetes.   Stacey Simms  46:43 I'm really excited to learn more about you and you know, hopefully down the road we can have Cyrus on the show as well. But one more question before I let you go. What are you having for dinner tonight?   Robby Barbaro  46:52 Okay, so tonight I'm going to tell you exactly how   Robby Barbaro  46:55 I enter it into nutrition software. I personally enjoy and My food into nutrition. I like dialing in the ratios I really really enjoy the confidence Okay, this is exactly what I'm having. And I feel really confident in this specific dose of insulin. And for people who don't like using nutrition software, we advocate this idea of go to meals and you sort of know this intuitively as a type one mom but you make certain meals that you've you already know the carbohydrate concept is the same thing. It's one it's this apple, it's this potato it's this But whatever it is, it's some combination of these you know ingredients and I know this amount equals this many carbohydrates this my grams carbohydrate, and you know, we can know what to do so dinner tonight is going to include lettuce or rubella, oranges, mangoes, papayas, and carrots, and it's going to be a total of 110 grams of carbohydrates. And I will also add that this meal is going to have 2.6 grams of fat And it's all by itself naturally without having to add any specifically high fat foods. And in the book, we also go into detail about how much fat you need to absorb fat soluble vitamins. And the research on that is really fascinating. So I hope people check it out. Excellent. Well,   Stacey Simms  48:18 thank you so much for joining me. It's absolutely fascinating. I'm thrilled to have you on To learn more, because I've seen pictures of the fruits and the plates and the you know, I haven't seen the banana pyramid. But I've seen lots of stuff online. So I really appreciate you taking the time to explain it. Thanks for coming on.   Robby Barbaro  48:34 It's great to connect with you. And I really appreciate you having me on. Thanks again.   Robby Barbaro  48:43 You're listening to Diabetes Connections with Stacey Simms.   Stacey Simms  48:49 I will link up more information on the things we talked about including some studies and some insulin resistance stuff that you might find interesting. I gotta tell you though, I was distracted. A lot once early in the interview and he was talking about bananas and he didn't tell him this I probably should have. I hate bananas. I hate them so much. I don't like the way they smell and like the way they feel I can't stand them. I do like banana bread. It's not the flavoring so much I guess when I think about it, although it's only banana bread. I don't like banana flavored candy. I don't like banana flavored ice cream. So when he kept talking about that, I was like, oh, enough. Okay, so I will link up more about Robby and Cyrus and their podcast and their book at Diabetes Connections.com up next Tell me something good but first Diabetes Connections is brought to you by Dexcom. And when you have a toddler diagnosed with type one like we did. You hear rumblings for a long time about the teen years everybody dreads that. But you know it hit us at full force a little bit early. I was so glad we had Dexcom Benny's insulin needs started going way up around age 11. And he has grown. I don't know, seven inches. In the last four years, along with all those hormones swings, I can't really imagine managing diabetes during this crazy time. Without the Dexcom continuous glucose monitoring system, we can react more quickly to highs and lows, see trends and adjust insulin doses with advice from our endocrinologist. I know using the Dexcom G6 has helped improve Ben he's a one C and overall health. If your glucose alerts and readings from the G6 do not match symptoms or expectations, use a blood glucose meter to make diabetes treatment decisions. To learn more, just go to Diabetes Connections.com and click on the Dexcom logo.   I always ask for good news stories in the Facebook group. It is Diabetes Connections, the group I really hope you can join us there if you're not there already. I love how the group is going very supportive. We talked about the podcast a bit but it's not just about that. So please come check it out and you know, find people That are well educated and smart and fun and living their best lives with diabetes. This week's Tell me something good is a story I read in another Facebook group actually and asked if I can share and Cindy said yes. So let me read you her post. “Hi, I want to tell you about something I'm very excited about. I'm a scuba diver and an underwater photographer. I've been diving since 1985. I have over 1700 dives, but I got diagnosed with type one. Last June of 2019. I was concerned about ever diving again. That was my first question for the doctors. we dive in remote places we dive for weeks when we go but we went ahead and booked a trip in the Philippines. In January for three weeks we have been here before we know the manager we know a lot of the divers” so she had a whole plan included wearing a Dexcom she was going to wear the Libra sensor as a backup. She brought in meter of course as a backup. She was wearing her Pump tantum pump went out of the water between dives, and bringing long acting pens for a backup. Here's what she did 56 dives in three weeks, dives were 60 to 75 minutes each. Each dive was 50 to 100 feet deep. She tried to get her blood glucose to about 140. Before going into the dive, she only missed one dive because of being low. She had to wait for numbers to trend up on another one. She did carry orange juice and snacks on the boat. She did plug in a few times to the pump to correct and she ran higher than she usually did, which you really didn't worry about. I'm so glad to hear this because it was her first time diving and overall her nights were nicely in range. So she says “here is the exciting news.” Her Dexcom worked great. She had it kind of stuck under the wetsuit with a patch. She did a couple things to kind of keep it on but it didn't come loose. The Libra also didn't come loose. You put a patch over She let everybody on the boat know that she had diabetes. She wanted to make sure that people around her were informed. Her friend and her husband would check in every single time she was about to go under with, you know, what's your number. She also carried a tube of jelly. She says you can get this on Amazon a tiny tube of sugary jelly. You can break the tip off and squirt some in your mouth regulator and all that scuba gear, the regulator. She does give a little bit of advice for other divers here. I mean, she was a diver for 35 years before she was diagnosed. This is a post in the type one diabetic athletes group on Facebook. But if you'd like to get in touch with Cindy, if you have questions, I have a feeling she'd be more than happy to help you out and I would be more than happy to connect you. If you're thinking about scuba diving and you haven't done it before or you are interested in getting back on the wagon if you've been diagnosed. She says that she really wants people to get back in the swing of it. She also says I'm not telling you how to manage your Diabetes underwater or telling you Dexcom works perfectly underwater. I'm just sharing my experience and excitement of being able to do what I love to do. And she posted a bunch of pictures. I will I'll share a couple of these in the Facebook group. I think this is excellent advice and I'm just so happy that somebody was able to get back to doing what they love after being diagnosed with diabetes because that's what we tell our kids right you can do anything. But you know, it can be complicated. So way to go Cindy, this is fantastic. I'm so excited for you. And the picture she posted of the fish and some of the underwater stuff is breathtaking. Let me know if you have a Tell me something good story. It can be anything like this. It can be a milestone with your kids. It can just be something that is good news for our community. Email me Stacey at Diabetes Connections. com or posted on Facebook. Just tell me something good.   A huge thank you to everybody who has posted recently about the world's worst Diabetes mom, as I travel more and do this book tour, it is just incredible to hear everybody else's worst stories. I mean, we all have them. And to learn what the what the book is beginning to mean to a lot of people, I did have some interesting feedback. When I went to Maine, they've given it to their clinic, they the group that I spoke with, bought some copies, and gave it to their local pediatric endocrinology group to give to some newly diagnosed families, which I thought was fantastic. If that's something you're interested in. If you have a clinic, or a diabetes office, or a group that is interested in having books on hand, obviously you can buy them and give them out. But please get in touch with me. Because when it's a situation like that, I'm sure we can figure something out either discounted pricing or, you know, maybe we can find something I'm pretty good with sponsors. And I'd love to make the book available to more people and that hadn't occurred to me that clinics might want it. So if you're in I was interested or if you're a health care professional and you're listening, if you're a CDE, please let me know. I'd love to start working things out. I'm going to work on this on my site as well. But just let me know. Coming up in March, I'm going to be in Wilmington, North Carolina, Winston Salem, North Carolina, and then out to Indianapolis. Can't wait to meet so many of you, as you listen and as you read, boys this fun. thank you as always, to my editor, John Bukenas from audio editing solutions. Thank you so much for listening. In a couple of days. We've got our mini episode that airs on Thursday, and this week, I am going to be talking about when a child has a fear of diabetes, when you know, we tell our kids Oh, won't hold you back. But what happens when a parent tells a little kid No, it's not gonna hold you back and the kid says, I'm scared. I think it will hold me back and I don't want to do this new activity. This was a heartbreaker. So we're going to talk about it and kind of find out what to do. Alright, I'm Stacey Simms and I'll see you back here on Thursday.   Robby Barbaro  57:03 Diabetes Connections is a production of Stacey Simms media. All Rights Reserved all rounds avenged   Transcribed by https://otter.ai

How to Get More Sales with Actionable Steps “There’s no one-size-fits-all sales strategy.” — Ursula Mentjes (05:38-05:46) Businesses want to maximize their profits, but many entrepreneurs struggle to increase sales. How can you take your purchases to the next level? There are specific tips, mindset shifts, tools, and strategies that you need to put into action to double your sales. In this week's episode, Ursula Mentjes talks about how you can get more deals with actionable steps. Part One of ‘How to Get More Sales with Actionable Steps’ If you feel like you're pushing in your business, you're probably off track. It shouldn't feel like an uphill battle. Selling shouldn't feel onerous. But it doesn't mean that it's going to be comfortable all the time. Once you've set your sales goal for the year, I want you to notice what ideas start to show up regarding how to get there.   “Sales is a phenomenal part of every business out there.” — Ursula Mentjes (14:24-14:33)   There are specific marketing and sales techniques that work for some businesses that might not work for you. But play with different approaches. Notice the ideas that are popping in. Come up with a list of 50 ways to reach your sales goals. That'll open up the possibilities of what you could be doing to bring in more sales. Once you write that question down, you'll be surprised at what starts to show up. Identify which ideas stand out for you, and come up with your top five ways to grow your business. Once you have that, you’ll be clear about what you can do next. Part Two of ‘How to Get More Sales with Actionable Steps’ Strategic partnerships happen over time. It's about developing a relationship with someone. Not just about one or two referral situations. If you had two to four strong referral partners, other companies, your company could double. If you're a business owner, you want to find other businesses that share the same target market. When you partner together, you market together. All of a sudden, there's all this potential, all these potential prospects that are in their business..   “Referral partners can be a profoundly impactful way to grow your business.” — Ursula Mentjes (17:23-17:29)   Another strategy to consider is networking. This may not work for everyone. But it's a low-cost way to grow your business. You could afford to get out there, and that could be a great way to get started. Do it to help others improve their business and have them help you grow yours too. Lastly, marketing experts will agree that doing a podcast show is also useful. People can listen to it everywhere. It's growing faster as a marketing platform than video. Things are happening faster and faster when it comes to technology. It's a powerful way to connect with possible prospects and clients all over the world. Back in the early years, it was impossible to achieve hosting a podcast as a small business. Only big companies could afford it. Now, we have these conversations all the time. It's going to keep growing and changing. How To Get Involved Ursula Mentjes is the founder of Sales Coach Now, as well as a Sales Expert, Inspirational Speaker, Author and Certified Sales Coach who specializes in NLP to help her clients double and triple their sales. Sales Coach Now delivers a unique approach to sales training and coaching designed for ultimate retention and achievement.  Discover how to transform limiting beliefs, make powerful shifts with intention, and authentically serve (sell) your clients with my free pdf, “6 Secrets to Doubling Your Sales! www.salescoachnow.com/gift  Also, Ursula would love to partner with you at your next event, conference, or sales training session. If you’re interested in coming to Sales Camp, that’s her two-day live course then, you may find out more information here: https://www.salescoachnow.com/sales-camp/.

It's rare that I find someone else whose advice on freelancing I really trust. But that's not the case for my guest today. Because it's very easy to take and trust her advice. My guest today is Abbi Perets. She wants moms to know you don’t have to choose between kids and career. She's the coach and mentor moms turn to when they're looking to break into freelance writing and earn great money from home on their own terms. She combines nearly 20 years of experience freelancing for some of the world's biggest companies with first hand knowledge, having five kids of her own, including one with special needs. She understands the unique challenges moms face every day and has created programs specifically tailored to meet those challenges and empower moms all over the world to have it all. And importantly, we talk in this episode all about how to send great pitches, some of the mistakes that people make when pitching, and how you can avoid those mistakes. Welcome back, everyone to another episode of the Advanced Freelancing Podcast. My guest today is one of the few people that I would trust with giving you freelance advice. The list of people I do not trust is way longer. But I am so excited to have Abbi here on the show because she really knows what she's doing. She gives authentic advice. And she's helped a lot of other freelancers, specifically writers, grow their business. I often feel like people ask me, “Oh, have you worked with so and so? What do you think about this person's courses?” And I feel like all too often I'm saying run away. It's so nice to have a couple of people that I actually do trust. So if somebody asked me advice, I'm happy to be like, “Oh, yeah, you need to go learn email sequences from this person.” It's so awesome to be able to have you on the show. We have a lot in common. We think the same with a lot about business stuff, but I'd love for you to give us a brief introduction, who you are, and what you do right now. All About Abbi She runs Successful Freelance Mom. And she is a mom of five kids, including one with special needs. She has worked as a freelance writer for 20 plus years. And today, she still does freelance writing work. And that's something that's really important to her. She still does the work with clients. So she’s not talking about theory that she learned in that work 20 years ago. Today, she teaches moms how to get started in freelance writing. And she has a couple of courses that are very general on how to get started in freelance writing. Then some of that are very specific and geared towards doing a specific offering a specific service, email sequences to course creators, and she loves it. She loves every second of it. Abbi hit on something that's one of my pet peeves too.  And that is somebody who freelanced once 10 years ago or sold one project on Upwork. It's not that they don't have valuable information to share. But I do question whether that's relevant.  We could like just make this like 30 minutes on what we don't like about other people. But I hate to seem that negative, but it's true.  Because what happens is, and Abbi probably sees this with a lot of her core students, by the time someone comes to you, they might have already looked at or purchased something from someone else and been disappointed and it they’re jaded. It crushes me because they're very concerned about working with anyone else again. They have these beliefs or ideas about how things should be or have to be because they heard it from somebody else.  And then it didn't work for them. So there's such a mindset thing, especially when you start about all the confidence that it takes and fake it till you make it and being damaged by one person. My advice...keep looking. I guess my advice on that would just be that you purchased a product a software worked with somebody, bought their course, bought their ebook, and didn't love it, so keep looking. That person is not the only authority. I would even say that if you bought something of mine and it didn't resonate with you, go find somebody else who teaches that might be able to help you. I just think it's so important that listeners know that because that's always been one of my big things, too. I don't feel like I can authentically talk about what it means to freelance today, if I'm not at least doing that. I have several clients, right. It's so cool that Abbi has it set up the same way. And I definitely want to talk about email sequences. But what we're hoping to focus on in this episode is pitching. I'm sure Abbi has seen it. I've seen it. Our clients have seen it. So many pitches are terrible and awful. The sad thing is you can avoid almost all of this. So I asked Abbi to talk about a top two or three things that she sees people doing over and over again that are just wrong. We’re talking wrong on the level of, “Yeah, don't even send the pitch. If you're doing this, just wait until you've got it refined.” “Hi. I’m a freelance writer.” Abbi thinks that a thing that someone teaches on the internet that is wrong, is do not start your pitch with “Hi, I'm Abbi and I'm a freelance writer.”  Because guess what, we know who you are. Because it's 2020, she has email, and it says your name right up there! And you probably say in your subject line something about whatever it is that they're looking for in a writer. You don't need to waste anyone’s time.  She thinks that a lot of people don't realize how much email some of these editors get in an hour, forget about a day. Literally hundreds of emails. They don't have that eight seconds that you've stolen it from them. And in pure resentment, they're just going to click “Delete”. That's it. Exactly. And especially if you're pitching on a platform like Upwork, where the client is soliciting a writer or a graphic designer, it's obvious that if you're replying to the post, you do that thing. So you don't need to recap it. “I’m really good at it.” The other one that drives me crazy is when people say, “I'm a good freelance writer. I'm really good at it.”   I would hope so. Because you shouldn't be in business if you're mediocre or bad. People still put it in there. You should only say things like, “I've been doing this for five years.” if there's some specific reason that the five years really matters.  Because it's not enough! Abbi is right about people having such a limited attention span. And if you put the good stuff about you at the bottom of the email, they’re never gonna get there. They're just going to delete it right away and you lost your chance with that editor or with that potential client. So that's definitely a good one. I totally agree with that. Track your email. Then this is a little admin thing surrounding the pitching, but Abbi always tells her students to track the email that they're sending. And she does this. She did this with everything. First of all, if she’s sending an email to her husband, she wants to know that he opened it and read it so that he can't tell her late, “Oh, I know I was supposed to do that.” Yeah, you did. Because you read the email, cookie. So I saw you open it six times at work. Track everything you sent. Because if you see that people are opening your email and you're never getting response, something about your pitch is not resonating with them. They're not giving you a chance. On the other hand, if you see that it's being opened multiple times, and especially in different locations, then you can tell a pitch is being forwarded around the office, being discussed, maybe in working meetings, that kind of thing. That's a great time to follow up and say, “Are there any Additional questions I can answer for you?” So just an admin thing around emails. It gives you a sense of how your pitch is being received. And if it's being opened at all, if it's being open and never read again, or if it's being open multiple times. Track your email. Getting flagged as spam. That's so good!  Because there's so much information you can get from that. And you don't want to wait until you've sent 40 or 50 pitches and aren't getting any responses. Because I've even seen freelancers who are sending pitches, and for whatever reason, there's something about their email address that's getting them flagged as spam. So it's not that the pitch is bad, but seeing that in the tracking that no one is even opening it. That tells you that there's something wrong there. Maybe your email address doesn't seem professional enough, or it's reading like a solicitation and the spam filter is catching it. So there's a chance to fix some stuff there. Email Tracking Software I know that HubSpot allows you to track up to 200 notifications. So I think that's every time someone opens an email per month for free. I know about mail track as another tracking tool. What do you recommend that freelancers use for tracking? Abbi has been using Streak which is a free Google Chrome extension. It works with Gmail. And so Streak has a paid version. You don't need the paid version. The paid version is for really a team of people who are doing multiple project management type tasks. The free version is unlimited in how many emails you can track per month and whatever. And it is robust! So for Abbi, it works exceptionally well.  She uses it herself. And she recommends it to her students.  She loves it.  And there's nothing like Mailtrack. She thinks it puts those little track my mail check at the bottom of every message. So Streak has nothing like that. It's not infallible, but nothing is and it's really, really good for what you need. I can't think of any use case for a freelance writer where  this wouldn't be a good fit. That makes a lot of sense because I agree. I installed Mailtrack to try it and it drove me crazy. I felt like it was buggy and it put at the bottom of every email that it was being tracked.  Sometimes you don't necessarily want your prospective clients or current clients knowing that you're tracking your email or their email. It's nice to have that as a secret tool in your arsenal to be like, “Hey, John Smith opened my email 21 times. This is the perfect time for me to write a custom follow up because obviously, there's something about it that got his attention.” But you don't really want to show all your cards with that. So I love that idea. It's so simple to do. It probably does not add any more than a handful of minutes to your pitching process. A basic misconception. I think another misconception that people have and we'll talk about this later is that it's as simple as sending a pitch and a client opens your email, reads it, writes back, and goes, “Sure send me the contract. Let's do thousands of dollars of work together.” A lot of the business is in the follow up.  You're setting yourself up for success with that. Follow up from day one by tracking it just makes it so much easier for you. I see people have these complicated spreadsheets that show when they contacted people. You don't need all that. Use the free version of Streak, get all the benefits of it, and don't add more stuff on your plate. So that's great. Abbi would also say, if you're not using Gmail, there's so many great tools built right in. They've even got this new, little nudge feature. If you sent an email a couple of days ago, and you haven't had a reply, it'll pop it back into your inbox and say, “Hey, you didn't get a reply to this. Do you want to do anything with that?” So I wouldn't necessarily take Google's advice every single time and immediately send a follow up three days later, but I do love the snooze feature, for example. So she will often snooze that and say, “Hey, remind me again 10 days from now.” Because that's the point where she does want to follow up and she does want to take a look. Is your email address unprofessional? So again, on the admin side, we talked about your email address might be coming off as unprofessional or getting flagged as spam. If it's an AOL.com address, It's definitely getting flagged as spam. If it's a hotmail.com address, it's 100% getting flagged as spam. It is 2020, get your own domain name and get a personal email address. It's not that expensive. I feel like Google charges $6 a month for that. I know I just put one of my websites on the year long plan with Squarespace. And it was one of the bonuses that came with that. A year of professional email. So at the bare minimum, you should be using something @gmail. com, you can probably get away with that if you don't want to deal with the hassle yet or not ready to invest. But it's such a small and easy thing to do to get that yourname@yourname.com or yourname@yourbusiness.com. Even if you don't have the full website setup yet, you can still leverage that email address.  It comes across a lot more professional because we've all received those annoying emails. Usually it's from SEO services. At least that's who targets me. And it's so obvious that it's a poorly written pitch. I mean, it starts with Dear Sir every time. Which I'm just like, “No, that's not accurate.” But you don't want to come across like those people. You don't want to be the fly by night, template pitch that has no rationalization to it. So try to stand out! Little things like your email address can make a big difference. They really, really can. And that's going to bring Abbi to her next point.  I mentioned these things that feel like templated pitches. So she’s all in favor of templates and systems and processes that save you time. But they shouldn't ever feel like templates and processes and systems that you created to make your life easier and to not really care about your clients. So she has a couple of  rules for business or rules for life or just things that she lives by core values. Don't lie. Don't send an email you'd be embarrassed to show people in your real life. These are basic things to Abbi, but a lot of people don't bother to follow them. So if you are a person who follows them, you will stand out. One of the things that she thinks about a lot and that she talks about a lot is that you should genuinely care about your clients and the people who you work with. You should really care about them. And you should think of them in a sense, as your friends. Yes, you want to have a professional relationship with them, but you should think of them as people whose well being you care about, whose time you want to protect. So don't send them crap that you'd be embarrassed to show people in your real life when you're emailing someone.  Put some effort into it. Even if it's a pitch, and even if you are using a template, put some effort and thought into it. She uses, for example, a tool called a TextExpander tool. There are different versions of this. The one that she uses is literally a $4.99 one time fee app. And it makes her life so much better because she can say of all of these templated responses that she can call up with just a keystroke or two, but then she always goes in and personalizes them. So the part that doesn't change is the service that she offers. Every single client who she works with gets the same offer, because that's the service that she offers. So it's an email sequence, it costs this much, and if you want a sales page, it's this much. But what she’s pitching to them, why she’s reaching out to this particular client, that's going to be the part where she’s going to put in that personalization. Be honest. And she finds that it's most effective, again, if you're honest. If you actually looked at their website, and there was something about it that spoke to you and made you say, “Wow, I want to work with this person.” Or if you're on Upwork, or a site like that, and you see a posting, what made you apply to that posting? And please don't tell me it's that they're offering a lot of money. That's not a good reason. There should be something beyond that that is pushing you to reach out to this specific client and not that one. So talk about that. And don't be afraid to let some of that passion come through. She thinks it makes pitching much more enjoyable for you as the person who's writing the pitch. And it certainly makes the person who opens it and reads it feel much more engaged with you if you're starting off by saying, “Wow, I looked at your website and your involvement with this organization, or the way you're approaching this, or the people you're serving…” Whatever it is, talk about the pizza thing that jumped out at you and got you excited. Absolutely. There's way too much generalization in some pitches. And it always surprises me, especially when I see that in responses to an Upwork gig. Because you're competing against other people there. If you're cold pitching somebody, they might have other freelancers that are cold pitching them, but most likely not at the same time as you sent your message on LinkedIn or your email. Use personalization. But when you're on Upwork, it's essential to have some level of personalization and a lot of times people will say, “Well, how do I know what that is? I can't see the client’s name. They didn't include their link or Upwork won’t allow them to do it.” Look for the clues that the client has left you in the job description if they are hiring a virtual assistant and it says, “I'm looking for someone who's super organized and a great communicator.” That's the personalization you put into the pitch. Not saying, “I'm a great virtual assistant.” Lead with, what it is about your communication.  Is it a feedback comment from a previous client that said you were the best communicator they'd ever interacted with? Is it the fact that your organization spills over into your personal life and your friends are envious of your closet? Share things that speak to that level of personalization even when you don't have a ton of information. I think it is an important sticking point that comes up a lot with beginners as well. It's easy for more experienced freelancers to pitch. They've got all of this background, past clients, testimonials, and referrals. If I knew, what the heck do I say in my pitch so that it's honest, like you mentioned, but not making promises that aren't true or not giving away necessarily, “Hey, you might be the first client I'm ever going to work with. How do you get a that in a pitch? Confidence is key. Abbi is definitely a huge fan of honesty. So she would never say you should claim to have experience that you don't have. But she also doesn’t think that you need to open with, “I've never done this before.” So you want to strike a balance.  One of the sentences that she loves, and she wants to give credit where it's due, her friend Lauren Golden uses this sentence and teaches this sentence, and that's, “I'm confident that I can do this for you. I'm confident that I can do this thing that you need for you.” Tell them the process. If you make your pitch about the outcome, that you're going to deliver the results that you're going to give your client, then you're driving that conversation. So it's not going to be about samples, clips, and experience. It's going to be about what you are going to do for them. Sometimes it can be very helpful to talk about the process you're going to follow to get the work done. You might say something like: “Hey, if we work together, we're going to start off with a kickoff call. That'll be about 45 minutes. Here's what I'm going to ask you on that call. Here's the information, I'm going to need to see from you. After that, it'll be about a 10 day turnaround time for me to do the work. During that time, I'll update you every other day by email, or I'll work in a shared google doc.” Whatever it is, talk about your process that makes you sound like you know what you're talking about. You have a process, you're laying it out for them, and you're making it really easy for them. Your clients don't necessarily know how this project is going to run. Because just like it might be the first time you're doing it, it might also be the first time they're outsourcing like this. So if you step up, and you say, “Hey, this is how this will work.” You take a lot of pressure off them. Think about it like this. If you're going to renovate your kitchen and you hire a contractor to come and renovate your kitchen, you’ve probably never renovated the kitchen before. So hopefully you hire a contractor who's perhaps done this once or twice, but every contractor has to start somewhere. So maybe this is that. But if he tells you, “Hey, okay, on Tuesday, we're going to come and we're going to demo. You're not going to have cabinets or counters or whatever. It's going to take two weeks after we measure for the things to be built and made. Two weeks later, you're going to have wood boxes in your kitchen. And then I'm going to come three days after that and do the countertop.” At least you have some sense of what's happening. Even if he's never done this before, and it's his first time and it's your first time, you feel a little bit more confidence in the process. Abbi thinks it's also okay to say to a client, again she wouldn't open with this, but she thinks it's okay to in your discussion, say, “Hey, I'm still nailing down my process on this, which is why I'm going to slightly discount this project or, which is why I'm doing this for x amount of money, when in the future, I plan to charge this much.” I think that that's an okay thing to say, when you're starting out if you really want the work, you really want this particular client, and you feel like this is your end. Telling the client the process adds accountability. I love all of those ideas. And I especially like explaining what the process is going to be like for the client. Because the other thing that's great about that, if you're just starting out, you've kind of set up your own loose accountability there by saying, “”Okay, we're going to start with the kickoff call.” So if I get this project, I need to be organized for that kickoff call. How am I going to block my schedule for that 10 day delivery period to make sure that I meet the deadline and the process that I've already presented to the client? I think clarity helps a lot. And clients want to be thinking about that end process of where you can take them. I love the idea of saying that I'm confident I can do this. Talk about your experience. Another one that I recommend is saying, especially if you have past experience, even if not freelance related, “I rely on my blah, blah, blah degree in web design to help my freelance clients.” or “I rely on my five years of experience working as a nonprofit to now serve in a consultant role.” So that's absolutely true. If it's accurate for you because you are relying on that experience. That's the passion and the interest in the background that potentially brought you to the type of freelance work you're doing today. So I completely agree. Do not lie. Do not say these are the kinds of results I get for my clients if you don't have any results yet. You don't need to say things like that. Of course, when you get to the more experienced freelancer point, you absolutely want to start adding those things into your pitches. Great comments and feedback from clients, amazing results, big name clients you've worked with. But please don't feel as a beginner like you have no chance if those things are missing from your pitch. Because I think you're just relying on a little bit different approach. But that doesn't mean it's not valid. And you have to think about the fact every freelancer started with no experience. So many people have found a way to break in and they are just a couple of steps ahead of you. That's really important to keep in mind. So two things... One is you might be new to freelancing, but you have a lot of other experience. Abbi said she can't tell you how many students she’s had who come to her and say, “I have two doctorates, and I've been the president of Uganda for seven years. Do you think I'm qualified?” She said she’s like, “Yeah, I feel like you can probably handle writing. Yes, I feel like you will be okay.” So don't discount the 10 years of corporate experience that you have in any writing work or freelance work that you've done.   Anything that you've done in your past that relates to what you're trying to do now, counts.  It matters. It's real experience. Every Freelancer starts somewhere right? Everybody has a first project. She loves to tell her students it's not only does every freelancer have a first project, every brain surgeon in the entire world has to at some point, picked up a scalpel and sliced into someone's brain for the first time. And she feels like not to belittle what we do by any means. But she feels like brain surgery is just a little more complex than most freelance writing projects. My goodness, Abbi just gave me a flashback. In my husband's third or fourth year of medical school, he rotated with a surgeon.  And the guy was more than ready to throw him into gastric surgeries with no experience.   My husband was like, “Yes, I've been trained to do this. I understand the theory of it. I know what that process should be. “ But he's like that first time that he goes, “Okay, you tie this up.  You close this out and you do the sutures.”  Everybody gets over that hurdle, no matter what your line of business or your passion is.  So keep that in mind.  Continuing to push yourself and get over those hurdles, especially as you expand your business too.   Me and Abbi have both had the first time we coaced somebody, the first course we created, which by the way, mine sucked.   So it’s going to be okay. However, if the first thing you create, the first thing you do, the first pitch you write, is maybe not a home run, that's okay. Because sometimes I think it's about that confidence of sending it out. Sometimes I hear especially from freelance writers that they're like, ”I'm going to take the next five to six months to write.“ And I'm like, “No, you're good. Like you don't need to spend six months workshopping this.” Sometimes it's just about maybe you don't send that first pitch to your dream client. But getting over that hurdle is so, so important. Following up. So let's talk about following up because this is really where your pitch can go from an email that happened to get read to now we're talking about potentially closing a deal. A lot of freelancers often ask me and I give them the answer that they hate, which is it depends if there is a specific formula for following up. I think there are loose guidelines around when and how you follow up.  So I was curious about Abbi’s thoughts on “you've sent the pitch, we tracked it, we see it's being opened, it's possibly being forwarded around” what now?  Abbi says follow up is so critically important. She follows Ilise Benun of Marketing Mentor. got it. And she did a podcast episode or an email or something about how somebody was trying to get on her podcast. Abbi had emailed her multiple times. And she said, “I feel like she probably thinks she's bothering me, but I happen to know I'm really busy and every time she emails I'm like, Yes, I meant to go and look up her stuff and I haven't had time yet. If she keeps following up, she's going to get booked in that slot.” So we write all these stories in our heads about how they must have hated it or they would have replied, but the reality is people are busy. They're spending far less time thinking about you than you think they are. No one cares about you very much. So the act of following up is really important in and of itself. How and when do you follow up? So how and when Abbi typically advises to follow up is if after two weeks if you've seen that that email has been opened multiple times, it's a good time to follow up. But how do you follow up? Abbi doesn’t forward the old email. Don't do that. To her, that's weird. She would do a new email with a new subject.  You can even say following up, put a dsah, and then your original subject line. And that's something that she likes to do personally. And then, “Hey, I wanted to follow up with you. I'm sure you're busy. Here's how I can help you…” Hit the high points. Here's how I can help you be less busy. And here's how I can take some of this load off of you. I want you to think for a second about the one behind the one. There's the thing that business owners say like, “I need social media management, right”. But what they mean is “I need more clients. I need more money.” That's what they actually want. So speak to that want behind what they actually want to get from this relationship. I can help you grow your business, I can help you whatever it is that you're offering to do for them. Hit the high points and make it super easy for them to get back to you. It's not, “Hey, you can call me at this number.” Nobody wants to pick up the phone anymore. Put a calendar link right in there and make it super easy for them, click here, book a time with me, I will be happy to take care of everything for you and give you all the answers you need. Take this project off your hands, get it done, and get it delivered. You can even say something like, “I'm currently booking work for whatever next week, two months from now…” Whatever it is that you're trying to project in your business that can sometimes push people into that response. If your email hasn’t even been opened. Abbi thinks that if you've seen that an email hasn't even been opened and it's been two weeks, then she would definitely send it with a completely different subject line because it wasn't ever opened. So ignore that first subject line.  It either wasn't interesting enough to them or it never made it to the inbox or they have a lot of email and things get lost. Whatever. forget about it. Come up with a new subject line, something that you feel might hook them in and get them to open your email. You can use the same text of the email if you want to, although I would read it over to make sure that there's nothing in there that's getting it filtered into spam. Just give it a once over. And if you see that something was opened once and then never opened again, it still could be worth a single follow up. In that case, I would kind of make a note to yourself that this is the last chance for this guy because you feel like he's not interested.  And it’s fine that not everybody is going to be interested in you. And that's okay, too. Make the follow up different than your original email. I love all of that. And one of the things that I really want to hone in on, which is what you talked about, is this idea of making the follow up be a little bit different than your original email.  Not forwarding the same email and not saying, “Hey, again, here's my website with my samples.”  Remember, these people are busy. If they didn't look at your samples from the first time around, or even if they did, they don't want to see that again. So you're getting into the psychology of it all right? Who is this person?  They're busy, but obviously there's a need and a want here because they opened my email five times. So how can I hit home with that?  Another place where people get stuck a lot is the multiple follow ups. And I think that's important to do. Because sometimes you will hear from clients that you haven't heard from in weeks, months, sometimes even years.  And they will appear out of nowhere. Even if you've never worked with them. There was someone that I wrote a proposal for, that they didn't accept, but they forwarded my name to somebody else who contacted me out of the blue. Because I had kept following up on the proposal that they never signed and went for. So I like to think of it as you're opening all these doors, then leave them open for as long as it makes sense. Don't do the follow up of like, “Hey, just following up on this.” That's appropriate if they have a proposal or a contract that is pending a signature. Then you can be that directive, like, “Hey, I just want to make sure my invoice gets paid, that you saw this contract and scope before you agree with it.”  But make it more personal. When you're still at the pitch level or you're trying to get them on a call or something like that. I think a lot of people kind of miss that. Creeper status. Now, after the first couple outreach efforts, I get a little bit of creeper status going so I will start googling the company and the person I'm emailing. I will look for articles or new studies that came out that were relevant to their business. And I will say something like, “Hey, I came across this article on email marketing, and how the ROI on it is, blah, blah, blah, dollars for every blah, blah, blah dollar you spend. I instantly thought of you because I know I've sent you previous information about email marketing and I really feel like for your audience segment. It could be key.” If the CEO was recently received an award or was featured in an article, use that as your follow up like, “Hey, I saw this. This is super cool. It's part of why I'm so pumped to potentially work with you.” So make it a little more personal. I think that every client and potential client hates when people say, “Hey, following up.” or  “Hey, checking in on this.” over and over and over again.  Because you're making it all too easy for them to just say, “No, not right now.” There's no incentive for them to take any action based on those kinds of statements. So you want to prompt them. This is what you're missing if you don't work with me, “Hey, I'm really passionate about your company or you or your industry.” Something that's personal that makes them go, “Man, if we are gonna outsource it, it's gonna be to this freelancer because their follow up game is solid.” Abbi shared that if you want to go an extra step, send a video pitch.  This is something a lot of people are going to hear this and be like, “I'm not doing that.” But Abbi encourages you to think about it. She has students who have had an enormous amount of success with video pitches. They will literally use Loom, again free Google Chrome extension that’s super easy to use. Even if you've never used it, you can be up and running in 45 seconds, because you're a human with a brain. You go to their website and you can talk about them and like, “Oh, my gosh, I love this stuff about you.” Or you could take that article and say, “I'm reading this article, and I'm just thinking about you. This line in particular really speaks to me and reminds me of your company, because XYZ.” Number one, not everybody is sending video pitches. Number two, it is clear that you made this effort specifically for that client. It catches their attention.  And Loom loads things so nicely with this preview right in the email. People are like, “Huh, what's that?” And they click and you don't want to go on for 17 minutes. But if you do like a two- three minute video, that's something that has a real impact. And you get a notification when they've watched it. So another nice tool for “Oh, hey, they watch this.” You know you are going to stand out in their mind. We're writers, because we're introverts and whatever. Get over it. They're not looking at it to judge your makeup or whatever. They care much more about themselves. So take the time, make this little video pitch because it makes such a difference. I can't even tell you how many clients I've landed, or at least opened the lines of communication, because I sent a one or two second video.  It's really your chance to show that you're a human too. You're not just a taskmaster who does projects and turns them in. You're a human being. And you have a personality. You care about their business. I also worked with an online business manager for about two years. And it was from an Upwork pitch. But she went one step beyond to Google my name and made me the two minute video that says, “Hey, I went and looked at your website and as your OBM here, the three things that I would change that I don't think are working as well as they could.” No one else even spent the five minutes today to check out who I was and where I probably needed the most help. And so that led to a two year contract for her. Make it personal. So anytime I can do something that's a little bit personal like the video, going that little one step beyond the follow up.  Another one of my favorite follow ups is pitch the person then connect with them on LinkedIn. I did this yesterday.  And I was pitching a speaking gig. I wrote the custom pitch to the conference organizer. Five minutes after sending it, I sent a connection request on LinkedIn. And said, I like to add a note section connecting I said, “Hi there, I'd love to connect with you because blah, blah, blah.” But then I put at the end, “Also, I just sent you an email on 2029 friends. Looking forward to connecting.” And because people still tend to check their LinkedIn, which might not always be 100% true on email, that's another great way to follow up or keep that conversation going or ground somebody whose email inbox is bogged down to go searching for your name. Add a note to connection requests. Abbi loves that I sent a personal message with my LinkedIn request. Because sometimes you can get dozens if not hundreds a day. And when they don't have a personal message, she’s not necessarily going to bother to approve them. Because she doesn’t know who you are. She doesn't know anything about you. And she doesn’t know if you're a good connection for her.  She’s very selective with her LinkedIn connections. Because when she puts out content on LinkedIn, she wants it to be showing to people who actually may engage with that content. So if it's somebody who has taken the time to write her something personal, she will almost always accept them even if they're outside of that immediate market. She thinks, “Okay, this person made the effort and told me why they wanted to connect with me. Sure.” But if you don't bother to do that, then you are missing out on a chance to connect with people. I leave my connections for the longest time in purgatory on LinkedIn if I can't figure out who they are and what they do.  This is especially true if you don't send the note. Also, your tagline on LinkedIn is extremely big.  Someone the other day tried to connect with me and their tagline was “Making dreams come true.” And I thought, what does that mean?  And what industry are you in? Some of the people that I connect with, not just connects with, but gets right back to them immediately, are those who are like, “Hey, I saw your TEDx talk.  I loved Episode 90 of your podcast.” It's like, “Oh, yeah, this person actually knows who I am. They're not just randomly clicking people you might know and adding connections for whatever reason.” So if we think like that, I guarantee you marketing managers and busy entrepreneurs think like that, too. So it doesn't even have to be related to the service that you pitch. It may be you saw them deliver an amazing keynote and you comment on like, “Hey, you really killed it on that stage. You did an amazing job.” You're much more likely to open that line of conversation and communication. So I think that's so important and underutilized. Abbi has also had students of her who will sign up for her free email course, they'll like her Facebook page, they'll join her group, and then on LinkedIn, the message will be something like, “I swear, I'm not a stalker.” So you know, it took five seconds to write that. It made her laugh. And she gets it. She knows you want to follow her in these spaces. That's totally cool with her. She is there for it. She’ll even reply to something like that like, “Haha, I don't think you're a stalker. It's awesome. So glad to connect.  Let me know if you're finding everything you need.” And now we have a conversation going so. So there are definitely ways that you can do that and it's such an easy way to stand out from the crowd. Just give them a nudge. So to close things out, because I feel like we could talk for hours, say you're in the process of following up, you've suggested the call, and they haven't taken it. Do you have any tips for how to nudge that person into getting them on the phone? Because I feel like that's where so much business is done. How do you nudge that person without being annoying? How could it be most effective at sort of prompting them into that action step of the phone call? Abbi would definitely start with her calendar link. And if that hasn't been clicked on, if that hasn't resulted in the follow up, then she might, in her next follow up, propose two times. She would say, “Hey, I'd love to get this on the calendar. Would Tuesday at 3:00 or Wednesday at 10:00 be better for you?” Then if one of those works, then she'll send that calendar invite. There is no foolproof system. It is a little bit tricky there. She doesn’t have a great foolproof system. And she doesn’t think there is a foolproof system for every situation. For example, her calendar link is linked to a zoom call. Which is a great little setup, but some people may be intimidated by the calendar link in general and by the idea of Zoom. So maybe make it a little bit easier. “Would it be easier for you if I called you at 10am on Wednesday?” Think about the person.  If you're speaking to someone of a certain age, they may be less comfortable with some of the technology. And if you're speaking to someone who's not in a technology field, they may not be comfortable. Another thing that she ran into was some corporate clients can't access some of those zoom things on a corporate network. So be cognizant of that and say, “How can I do this? How can I make this easier for you?” I love that and giving them a reason to take the phone call, even if it doesn't end up going further with business. Maybe there's a question they have around content marketing, or maybe you have a couple of recommendations that aren't giving away the farm, but allow you to get some of your insight in there, and really get them to see you as an expert. So when people are busy, there has to be a reason for the phone call. Your link cannot be a 45 minute thing that you're scheduling. Keep it to 15 to 20 minutes if they're definitely interested. And they've written back saying, “Yeah, we really need someone to help with XYZ service.” You can expand it to 30 minutes. But you want to watch your time too so that you're not giving away too much and it's not leading to business. But definitely give them a reason for that phone call to make sense. Get them thinking. Right now we're in q1, a lot of companies have met and decided their budgets for the year. That might be a good opportunity to be like, “Hey, I'd love to hear about your content marketing and traffic goals or email newsletter goals to close out quarter one and kickoff q2 strong.” That gets them thinking about it. And If you've hit the right employee or that's on their list of things to achieve, there's more of a chance that they're at least willing to talk to you, especially if it makes them look good if you're going to give them a tip or if you're going to propose an easy solution. You may say, “Hey, your email newsletter is not converting, I know because I'm a customer and these were the problems I encountered with it.” They're much more likely to hire you. And you also can make that employee look good when they go to their boss and say, “Hey, I've got some excellent feedback on how we can improve this. And I found the professional who can help us to accomplish that and knock it out and start seeing better numbers.”  More Abbi later. I love it. This is not the last Abbi will hear of me because I have so many things to pick her brain about. We're definitely going to try to have her come to a live training in my facebook group specifically about email sequences.  Iit is kind of in the freelance writing world like writing emails for other people. Abbi’s Facebook Group is amazing.  Another one of my pet peeves with the online world is Facebook groups where, especially writers, love to pile on each other or critique other people's rates or be negative or write comments like “You'll never achieve your dreams.” Abbi’s Facebook group is not like that. I also strive for that to not be my Facebook either. But I would if you're a writer, even if you're experienced, I would strongly recommend joining her facebook group because it's a very supportive community and people write actionable tips in response to questions.  They don’t write supervague, like, “Hey, I can offer you a phone call.” You're going to get good answers to your questions. Thanks for tuning in for another episode of the advanced freelancing podcast. For more freelance advice, get a copy of my book Start Your Own Freelance Writing Business—available now! Buy it from Amazon, Barnes & Noble, Apple Books, and more. Connect with Abbi: Website: com Instagram: @AbbiPerets Facebook: Successful Freelance Writing Moms

Gavin Matts (comedian) returns to deliver a double dose of D'Elia, though his block is a little more innocuous than Olivia Stadler's, as he tells Chris that another comedian is better than him. That's it. That's the whole block. Seems a bit sensitive by Chris. Speaking of sensitive, Chris D'Elia does not appear on this podcast, so if you're some weirdo from Norway who thinks he is and gives us a one-star review because he's not, that's the scoop. He's not on the show. What you WILL find on the show is the Blocked Boys going off on clown college, the Black Forest, Tony Hawk, and Stefan reveals who he thinks the sexiest train from Thomas the Tank Engine is. Plus, you'll find out why Gavin deleted all of his tweets, how he befriended Dan Nainan, and how he definitely remembered to prepare a Top 3. If you want to be more prepared for this podcast, you can access all of our sweet bonus content over at https://patreon.com/blockedparty, where $5/month gets you access to THREE bonus episodes every dang month. This week, we have a very special mailbag episode where we are joined by John's girlfriend, Becca! She does not disappoint, spilling all the beans about John and lots of BP history. That'll come out this week and next week, we've got another all-Cameo bonus episode on the way with a VERY special guest, so get in while the getting is good. PLUS, we have newsletters, some upcoming video episodes, and a $50 lifetime donation gets you a FREE Blocked Party shirt! 

We're exploring the science of Ayurveda with Wayne Celeban on the show today. Wayne is a Naturopath and Ayurvedic practitioner with over 18 years clinical experience. Wayne is passionate about empowering individuals to be sovereign in managing their own health and wellbeing. Wayne uses Ayurvedic and nutritional medicines, yogic breathing techniques, and integrated evidence-based research to assist in the management of common conditions such as chronic stress, digestive disorders and hormonal imbalance. Today's chat takes us beyond the dosha's (Vata, Pitta and Kapha), into the realms of the mind and the psychology behind dis-ease and disharmony according to the Ayurvedic system.   Wayne and Mason unpack: Traditional Ayurvedic Medicine and it's application in the western landscape. The Ayurvedic dosha's; Vata, Pitta, Kapha. The four goals of health according to the Ayurvedic System. The "witnessing factor" the part of every human that is witnessing our experience on earth. The origins of dis-ease in the Ayurvedic system. Not taking life too seriously, indulging in your personal curiosity and being present with where you are right now. The misuse of our intelligence in regards to our health choices. Wayne's favourite herbs and health practices.   Who is Wayne Celeban? Wayne Celeban is a Naturopath and Ayurvedic practitioner with over 18 years experience in clinical practice. Wayne received his qualification in Ayurvedic medicine from one of the leading colleges outside of India under the guidance of the renowned Dr Vijay Murthy (BAMS, MS, B.Nat, MPH, PhD). Wayne has studied in numerous Ayurvedic clinics and hospitals in India including JSS Ayurvedic University, Mysore. In 2012 Wayne was accepted into the SDM Ayurvedic Hospital and College post-graduate internship program in Hassan, India where he continues his clinical training. To achieve successful outcomes for his clients, Wayne combines the 5000-year-old traditions of Ayurveda and Yoga philosophy with western medical science and nutritional medicine. Wayne's experience and knowledge is evident in his professional practice and dedication in developing practical and effective health care programs to support his patients in becoming the best version of themselves emotionally​, mentally and physically.   Resources: Yukti Website  Yukti Facebook Yukti Instagram    Q: How Can I Support The SuperFeast Podcast? A: Tell all your friends and family and share online! We’d also love it if you could subscribe and review this podcast on iTunes. Or  check us out on Stitcher :)! Plus  we're on Spotify!   Check Out The Transcript Here:   Mason:   (00:00) Wayne, thanks so much for coming on, man.   Wayne:   (00:02) Hi, Mason. Thanks for having me.   Mason:  (00:04) Yeah, absolute pleasure. Good to touch base. I think we said it's been about a year since we've oh, since we met that time and then got to hang out up on the beach there just south of Noosa, right, but yeah, but it's been about a year. That's flown.   Wayne:   (00:19) It does. It goes quickly.   Mason:  (00:22) Do you want to just say a bit of an ooroo to everyone, let everyone know what you're up to up there in Noosaville and tell them a little bit more about your practice?   Wayne:  (00:32) Yeah, sure. Hey, guys. My name is Wayne Celeban. I'm an Ayurvedic practitioner and naturopath and have a clinic up in Noosa on the Sunshine Coast. Basically, what we do is we specialize in Ayurvedic medicine. We run different Ayurvedic educational programs here. We have our own range of Ayurvedic medicines that we formulate for our patients. We also do a complete range of organic teas and tonics. What else do we do? We've got a traditional Ayurvedic therapy center, basically everything Ayurveda. We run classical panchakarma detoxification programs, traditional programs that been used in India for over 5000 years. Basically, we do all things Ayurveda and we modify it to suit our Western culture in terms of nutrition and all that sort of stuff. Yeah, we love [crosstalk 00:01:33]   Mason:  (01:33) Yeah, you've got a solid crew up there.   Wayne:  (01:36) Yeah, we have. We've got a good team.   Mason:  (01:39) Yeah, you had a good team and then a good community around you. That's definitely what I noticed coming there and chatting with everyone in what's the name of that little marketplace that you're in there in Noosa, that little [crosstalk 00:01:51]   Wayne:  (01:51) Belmondos Organic Market.   Mason:  (01:53) That's right. Belmondos just had a good thoroughfare through there, but talking to everyone, you guys are just like waving that flag of keeping everyone healthy, so you got this real grassroots, honoring the traditions of the Ayurvedic philosophy seated in the middle of Noosa, which is really nice. It's a real sweet offering you've got up there, good quality herbs, as well, which we love.   Wayne:  (02:19) Yes.   Mason:  (02:20) Yeah, man, no, it was good. I always remember I had such a great chat there, really kind of turned me into thinking about Ayurveda a little bit more, despite the fact that I taught a little bit of yoga like back in my early 20s and so started entering into that world and then just got diverted and swept away by the Taoist tradition and not even going down that Chinese medical route. I could see with Chinese medicine that likewise, the complete Ayurvedic system, which both such complete systems that really require dedication, not just taking a little bit off the surface here and there and saying that it's Ayurveda.   Wayne:  (02:59) Yeah.   Mason:  (03:00) When I was talking to you, we were talking about doshas a little bit. It's always such a classic what I think even generally the conversations bandied around you must see that it's quite generalized. I think we had just such a good chat with you going through my constitutional elements and the fluctuating nature of it and where you could be like yeah, this is why everyone's saying you are just a classic Pitta constitution, yet here are the caveats and where different elements of your being having a bit of Kapha coming through, so on and so forth. I mean, just that alone, I think we should ... We're not going to go too deep into that today, but I think that might even be an interesting conversation for people that do like that archetypical and constitutional analysis. I mean, is there anything there you want to say about it just for people who may have just gone through maybe that basic Vata, Kapha, Pitta constitutional analysis? Can it be done online with a questionnaire or just by looking at someone?   Wayne:  (04:02) Yeah. Look, I think it's always useful to get to know yourself on a more intimate and more like a deeper level. I think looking at Vata, Pitta, Kapha and looking at these different body constitutional types is important, definitely, but there's a lot of other fundamental principles that lay the foundation for those dosha types.   Wayne:  (04:28) For example, we're all made of tissue systems and we have mental faculties and sense organs and there's a witnessing factor that we're all able to perceive life through. That acts at the basic foundation for life. Some of these things I feel are more important than understanding specifically what your body type is because once we understand what constitutes life, then we're able to be able to navigate our way through life more efficiently.   Wayne:  (05:02) An example of that is if we understand the mechanisms of mind, for example, the thing is, these concepts are universal. They're not dependent on whether Vata, Pitta, or Kapha is dominant. They're just there, so these are the sort of things that are really important to get a good understanding of because the thing is, from an Ayurvedic perspective, mind is pretty much the main cause of disease. If we understand the causes and the origins of disease, then we can start tracking through and seeing how that affects us physiologically and biochemically. At that stage, that's when your Vata, Pitta, or Kapha dominance starts to come into play.   Wayne:  (05:51) I think traditionally, with Ayurvedic physicians, Vata, Pitta, and Kapha wasn't something that was communicated with the patient so much. It was about finding that balance, but actually looking at what are the origins of disease? What are the causes and how do we eliminate those? , Pitta, and Kapha are like the effect of the imbalance of more subtle aspects or principles in Ayurveda that are more important to get your head around, so then you can find that harmony in general without having to get too complicated and caught up in all of this Vata, Pitta, Kapha questionnaire-type stuff that we're seeing online quite often.   Mason:  (06:32) Yeah, which is really because it's fun. It's about me and my constitution and then you get to like, yeah, which is great and all good, but having that conversation just really tweaked it for me. I feel like of course it wasn't Ayurveda or even Chinese medicine that got me offside with all that surface talk of doshas, yada, yada, yada. It was just the fact that I was kind of, I guess, not willing to go deeper to learn the nuances.   Mason:  (06:59) I think just going on your site, you're talking about the psychology and the mind. Just looking at those eight limbs, it's something that always, when I look down the barrel of just how extensive the psychological aspect of Ayurveda was, that branch, which.. How do you pronounce it...? Buddha Vidya, is that the-   Wayne:  (07:17) Buddha Vidya, yeah. That's psychology, yeah, psychology.   Mason:  (07:24) Which was always interesting, I think. I don't know whether we talked about it or whether I was speaking to Tahnee, my partner, about it, but looking at so much asana, with such an asana, physiological and diet-based approach to Ayurveda that have been taken and then, basically, disregarding the fact that you are going to have a lot of mental shit and a lot of patterns come up when you start practicing and breathing and meditating. That's something that seemingly a limb. This has really brought it up when I was going through your site and remember having that sense of just awe and remembrance of how incredible this whole system is, but especially how important that looking at the mind and acknowledging it when you're going into this system.   Mason:  (08:11) Kind of gone a little bit off course, so thanks for going with me on that one, man. This is always a good reminder that we can just go back to the mind and the fundamentals of life. One thing I'm really keen to jump in with you is the four goals of life, especially from this Ayurvedic system. I always love, especially from yourself that you've been so rooted in this tradition, I'm really interested to hear your perspective of what those foundations and what that benchmark place is to feel, go like as you're moving along in life, you ideally ... You're a practitioner, yet you wanting to start here. Obviously, you're there championing people to embody all these principles into their own life, tend to their own health, embody certain things into their family culture so that they don't end up in the practitioner office with anything super acute. From your perspective, what are these four goals? What are these four somewhat pillars we can use to gauge where we're at?   Wayne:  (09:15) Yeah, well, I mean, the four goals, coming back to the influence of mind in terms of general health and wellbeing, we're always looking at how we can find that harmony and that balance at the most subtle aspect of our experience. Coming back to what the Ayurvedic definition of life is is that it's the combination of the body, the sense organs, which act as the main communication pathways from the internal and the external environment. Without sense organs, we have no ability to experience our surroundings through visual, through hearing, seeing, touching, smelling, tasting.   Wayne:  (10:00) The third component is mind, so that is a combination of memory recall, perception. The ego falls into that category, as well. Then we have what's called budhi, which is like a higher intelligence. It corresponds to that part of you that has that sort of discernment or that ability to make good choices. Generally, when we get caught up in memory recall and reasoning, we generally make choices that don't necessarily support our wellbeing.   Wayne:  (10:34) The fourth component of life is the witness. There's something inside you. There's something inside me that is just aware. It's a non-local phenomenon. We can't measure it. We can't isolate it physiologically. We can't find the part of the brain where it resides. It's just something that's witnessing. What that does is it witnesses through the filter of the mind, so depending on the quality of the mind, it's going to determine that witness' experience, which then communicates and experiences through the sense organs. Then that determines the whole feedback mechanism and the relationship with life and our communities, our environments.   Wayne:  (11:19) These four goals of life, they're kind of like signposts that enable us to track how we're moving in life and to be able to enable us to organize our lives in a way that we're fulfilled in all different directions. The first one is known as dharma. Dharma is translated as like life path or virtue. This relates to what it is that you're here to do. What's your particular unique gift or experience that is part of your process.   Wayne:  (12:04) Traditionally, in Ayurvedic culture, there were different aspects of society that created a functional civilization. We had warriors. We had brahmins, which were like the priests and people that kept knowledge. Then there was people that were involved in trade and economics. Then there were people that were like the public servants. Basically, within those four caste systems, which originally, it seems as though people chose where they wanted to contribute to their society or their communities. That wasn't something that they were born into. It's something that they moved into based on what their dharma was, what their life purpose was. These days, we're having more opportunities to be able to find out what it is that we're interested in, what we want to do in life, and then we pursue that.   Mason:  (13:04) Yeah. That's such an important piece. I mean, adapting that to the modern life and having an appreciation, an intense amount of gratitude for the fact that we've actually got the space to consistently move around the earth and tune into what's passionate, what we're passionate about, and then the mobility to move into different careers or different callings is just far out. It's the most incredible thing absolutely possible.   Wayne:  (13:32) Yeah, it's fantastic. The thing is, if you think about it, on average, we spend eight to 10 hours within our work careers, so this is a long period of time. It's really important that whatever you're doing within that eight-to-10-hour period, you enjoy it. Thing is, if you don't enjoy it, you're going to be miserable. You might be earning well, but how does that relate to quality of life? How does that-   Mason:  (13:59) In practice, how do you coach people, like advise people on that because it's like obviously, there's going to be a huge ... I don't know whether there's going to be a lot of psychology involved and patterns involved. There's a lot of people doing a lot of rah-rah motivation to quit your job and come and work for yourself and go entrepreneurial or just simply follow your passion. I'm sure you're sitting there holding this solid intention for people's health. I'd assume that that isn't this pendulum swing, so how would you go about that if you see that there's a bit of the flames diminishing in that dharma sector of these goals?   Wayne:  (14:45) Well, it's something that we have to consider and look at because basically, I mean, it comes down to the individual. It comes down to what their goals and what their complaints are, what their objectives are, what they're personally wanting to get out of an Ayurvedic consultation. If we look at it from a neurochemical perspective or a hormonal perspective, thing is, if somebody's not aligned with what they really feel in their hearts or what they feel that they should be doing, that's going to be influencing their serotonin levels, their dopamine and norepinephrine. It's going to be determining whether somebody's in like a sympathetic response in general, which can then create excessive cortisol secretions in their system that then starts disrupting their digestive system, which then starts to, at that point, determine whether Vata, Pitta, or Kapha becomes imbalanced, whether there's overactivity, whether there's more heat and more inflammation or whether there's stagnation that's presenting as a result.   Wayne:  (15:52) I think it's important. I mean, from a clinical perspective and from my own experience and also from an Ayurvedic perspective, it doesn't ever seem to be a good idea to just take somebody from one extreme to the other and create a stressful situation. If somebody's not aligned with what they should be doing or what they feel that they should be doing, well, it's finding ways to carefully transition into more conducive environments that support their health and wellbeing, so supporting their mental faculties, supporting their relationships, their environments. Then that will eventually equate to better health in general, better physiological health, better mental health.   Wayne:  (16:44) If everybody's moving in that direction, everybody wins. If everybody's doing what they feel that they should be doing, the quality of that product is going to be fantastic. I remember in New Zealand, I used to catch a bus to college. I see it on the bus. There was this Polynesian bus driver. He used to sing for the whole time on the bus. He'd be drumming. He'd be playing music. He just loved doing what he did. Then the next day, he might get on the bus and the guy's just miserable and hates his job. Everybody feels it and everybody starts the day getting onto a bus with somebody that's really unhappy doing what they're doing, so it's really important.   Mason:  (17:32) Absolutely, man. Yeah, it's an interesting thing. I see more practitioners just like ... Well, I guess practitioners, yourself being a key example, especially like a leader, you've been studying this for so long and you've been studying the depths of it and then we realize that a true system tracking back 5000 years isn't just going to cherry pick what's nice and fits into a Western system of treating disease. I mean, as a practitioner, as someone teaching a philosophy and this is where you were saying you're needing to make it appropriately come over into the Western world and I guess that would involve as you've just brought up, having these conversations gently.   Mason:  (18:15) How many times can you just keep on giving digestive health protocols without addressing this and so you see lots of practitioners moving in this direction and, obviously, yourself especially. I'm always curious how you bring that up in a clinical setting. I'm sure it has to be appropriate. You need to be able to play in both realms, but wear that dharma heart on your sleeve as just is a core educational piece.   Mason:  (18:44) You're right it's like it's just the amount of cortisol running around. Even in my own life, it's like you don't want to be going and chasing this idealistic lifestyle revolving around freedom because I think dharma and when I've learned that simplified version of dharma, it's like just had a real flowery, butterflies and rainbows, kind of easy way of living. I mean, what's the reality of it from studying the vedic system in terms of putting yourself through the pressure cooker and almost in states of slight stress. However, you're putting yourself there within alignment for your heart so it aligns with growth. Does that fall into that immediate benchmark for how you're tracking somehow?   Wayne:  (19:37) Yeah, well, the beautiful thing about these ancient sciences is that they all correspond to each other, so they all, in a way, support each other in different angles. If you look at Ayurvedic medicine or the whole system of Ayurveda, it's actually built upon six philosophies that are adopted. Three of those philosophies are associated with being able to establish the right knowledge or to come to an understanding of truth and develop good reasoning principles. Basically, from a research point of view, you want to go into a research with a completely unbiased perspective and you want to have a methodology that enables you to get to a conclusion that you can feel confident based on all of the steps that you've taken to get to that point.   Wayne:  (20:33) We adopt those three philosophies, but we also adopt another three philosophies that enable us to navigate our way through life in a way that's harmonious and balanced. Then this is where we might bring yoga philosophy into managing that discord or that transition into finding more of a meaningful existence because the thing is, from my experience, I've been doing this for nearly 20 years. I mean, it's not something that I would say has been an easy journey, but the thing is, I feel like I'm following my heart. I'm doing what I feel that I should be doing. What comes with that is a lot of discomfort, also a lot of good experiences, a lot fulfillment, a lot of satisfaction. It's been a fantastic journey.   Wayne:  (21:45) The idea of dharma being a fluffy, flowery, butterfly, Walt Disney, happily ever after reality is part of the illusion. We might adopt things like raga and dvesha from yogic principles into that and go well, if you're looking for a life path that is going to be really comfortable for you, well maybe there's an attachment to things that make you feel more comfortable. Or maybe it's because you're having an aversion to discomfort. Dharma isn't necessarily a solution for feeling good. It can take a lot of courage and it can be uncomfortable, but it's meaningful, it's satisfying, and it's something that I think it touches those parts of your experience where there's satisfaction where you feel at a deep level you're doing what you should be doing and you're contributing to your external environment in a positive way.   Mason:  (22:48) When you're saying dharma's a way, is it that correlation or that tuning into that observer self, which is one of the four goals of life to ensure that that's coming through?   Wayne:  (22:59) Well, that's at the very essence of all vedic practices. For yoga, for example, yoga is that practice that connects your physiology with breath, with mind, so they all come into a beautiful harmony so that witness can actually experience life without any distortion. This is another thing with yoga. When I say that we modify Ayurvedic practices to suit a Western setting, it's not to suit the Western mind in the sense that we might find with yoga. Basically, people are becoming attracted to the gymnastic side of yoga and that gets a lot of attention.   Wayne:  (23:52) The real practice of yoga is to establish a clear relationship with the deepest part of your experience, which is that witnessing factor. That's why there's such a strong component of mind in there because it's usually the mind that gets in the way. It's usually the mind that is causing the disturbance and creating all of this internal dialogue that might be equating to not feeling good enough, not feeling adequate enough, feeling shame, feeling guilt, feeling all these different things or just distracting that witness from having a present moment experience in life.   Wayne:  (24:33) Yeah, I think dharma, if you're actually really living in that purposeful state, you're not going to be spending as much time in the past and you're not going to be spending as much time in the future. You're going to be here. You're going to be engaged in what you're doing in present time. Dharma is also, from my perspective, it's also it's part of yoga. It's part of that union and that ability to sit in that present state right now.   Mason:  (25:03) Yeah. You were saying if we start looking at the origins of disease and the doshas coming off center, so we start at those four goals. Physiologically, I think we're going to be able to save the body, the requirement through herbs and through movement and through diet and just keeping the body rolling right through the center [inaudible 00:25:24] talking about the way we're obviously, that's literally the way we're perceiving the world and ourselves around us. Is that correlating to our feeling states and our emotional states, as well?   Wayne:  (25:34) Yeah, well, our feeling states and our emotional states, our feeling states can correspond to what's called chitta in yoga and Ayurveda, which is it's the perceptive faculties. It's the mind that are associated with memory recall and reasoning. A lot of our experience and a lot of our feeling, actually, comes from our capacity or our ability to be able to recall impressions and recall memories and then formulate and organize that through what's happening through our sensory perception.   Wayne:  (26:09) Emotions are a little bit more physiological. You might have a feeling or a thought and that that process is actually going to create a neuroendocrine or neurohormonal profile. It's going to determine what sort of hormones the brain is secreting into the system and then you're going to feel the effect of whatever that is. If you have a thought or if you're perceiving your present moment through a memory that you're associating with fear or anxiety, then that process is actually going to create an anxious response physiologically. We can experience that through that gut-brain axis pathway, so a lot of the time, if we do feel anxious, we're going to feel it in the belly around the navel. That's our body's hormonal response and neurological response, which then starts to disrupt digestive functions and peristaltic functions and enzymatic production, all that kind of stuff.   Mason:  (27:17) Yeah.   Wayne:  (27:19) The thing is, in Ayurveda, we kind of like separate mind, sense organs, and physiology into three different components, but they're all operating as one functional component. There's no separation between any of these different processes. We've just got one. We've got the subtlest form of our experience, which is that witnessing on local experience that we can't measure. We can't form. We can't burn it. We can't squash it. It's just something that is there and then there's a little bit more of a disturbance or a little bit more of a vibrational frequency that comes into manifesting as mind. Then it starts to manifest its physiological components.   Wayne:  (28:08) We explain that through the elements, as well, so where you have more of the grosser manifestations of life, so we have vibrational frequencies that are related with sound. We equate that to where the space element starts to manifest or these high vibrational atomic particles and then they start to move. Then we get the air element and that air element starts to create a little bit of friction, so we get this fire element producing. Then we get condensation, which the water starts to manifest. Then once that solidifies, we get the earth.   Wayne:  (28:47) We've got Ayurvedic philosophy tracks the whole manifestation of the Universe from the very subtlest aspects of consciousness and intelligence through the very gross, which is the earth element. We're just operating within that frequency, so we have our physiological components that are made up of the atomic particles that we find on the periodic table and how they're organized will determine whether Vata, Pitta, or Kapha have become more dominant. We've got these subtle aspects that are actually influencing and animating these elements, so it's all just one vibrational format that we're operating within.   Mason:  (29:39) And so that's where that daily practice comes in, eh? In Buddhism, there's that chop wood, carry water. What you were just talking about is just making sure that you're not operating consistently from that place of fear, I mean, I remember and still find myself going all right, how am I getting onto my path? Who am I? What am I doing? Am I on my path? It's that constant analysis and goes so far into the mental analysis that you're not digging yourself a hole. Then remembering that it is that somewhat of a mundane, yet strong, yet meek, daily practice where you just go in and at least clear house. It might not have to be every single day. I think I'm still, as most people probably are, still working on this really hard, so I'm not operating from any of these fear-based patterns, especially shame-based patterns, so on and so forth.   Mason:  (30:34) That's, I think, whether it was when I was practicing yoga or when I'm practicing martial arts or whatever it is, that's quite often what it can get my Western mind forlorn in terms of just how much work I've done on all these things and all these patterns. Yet, here I am like a decade later and, in a state of weakness, maybe I was a bit tired, maybe I was a bit stressed with things going on in life and that same, bloody pattern comes up, the one that I thought that I dealt with.   Mason:  (31:06) It seems what you're talking about these four goals of life being such a pillar, it's what we're looking at. Then you can branch into that yogic philosophy, whether it's the stages of meditation, stages and somewhat humble intentions of physical practice, along with pranayama and the pranayama's many branches and progressions, as well. It's all coming back to just that very simple, kind of you can't really make it too goal oriented. You just need to work on those pillars and then allow whatever needs to come forth to come forth, eh?   Wayne:  (31:51) Yeah. Well, I think it's sometimes we need to remain in a relaxed state of confusion because our life paths aren't always clear to us and what our purpose is and what we should be doing. Life's very complicated. We don't have any prior training when we come in. We land and we've got to figure it out as we go and somehow do the best that we can. Yeah, just following these four goals, they just enable us to at least have somewhere where we can go right, how am I doing in this department? How am I doing in this department? Then we can gauge well, maybe I need to focus more attention in another area. Let's just cover the four so we at least we've got something to reference.   Wayne:  (32:41) The second one is kama. Now, that's not kama as in like cause and effect. It translates as wealth. It's really important to have an understanding or pursue your unique purpose in life. It was always regarded as important to make sure that somebody will pay you for it, so like we-   Mason:  (33:10) You're saying kama as in the translating to wealth?   Wayne:  (33:13) Yeah, K-A-M-A. It's not K-A-R-M-A like karma as in cause and effect. It's a different meaning and a different word. It relates to wealth, so you've got responsibilities. You need to provide food. You've got to provide a roof over your head. You may have children. You may have certain responsibilities, so it's maintaining and supporting all of the things that create comfort in life. If you don't have money, it's difficult. There's Tim Robbins. One of his quotes is, "Money in the bank creates a Buddhistic calm." There's a lot of truth to it. I mean, there's different parts of creating a full experience.   Mason:  (34:00) Can you say that one again so we can just land it?   Wayne:  (34:03) Yeah, so having money in the bank creates a Buddhistic calm, so it's a sense of peace. Knowing that you're financially stable is a very calm effect. I know when I've been in difficult financial situations, it's very difficult to go and meditate or to do yoga or to not be in a cortisol-dominant state because the thing is, I mean, bills keep coming in. Your overhead's whatever it is that you have to be responsible for. They don't change. It is important to do what you love, but do it in a way that people will pay you for it. That's going to create a really important pillar for your existence.   Mason:  (34:47) Well, you just brought up taking the responsibility on your shoulders, as well, and that's such an important piece there because I feel and I kind of make some broad statements and broad observations of the health scene and the yoga scene. Really, it's been nice to see that self-worth and really honoring your value and that's good.   Mason:  (35:15) I think sometimes it comes from a place of have you earned it yet? Do you deserve that? That's that my I like coming through with that little bit of that critique. I like doing it to myself primarily, but let that trickle down into that responsibility of man, if you're going to be wealthy, acknowledge the fact that you're going to have these overheads. It's something I'm still working on. Don't make it about other people needing to pay you what you're worth. How about you get your own worth in the worth of like the responsibility of that little bit of money that's coming into your world and manage that correctly and learn how to actually ensure that that's going to keep the food and keep the roof over your head.   Mason:  (35:56) I feel like this kama needs to like this is one of those ones I feel like I very quickly brushed on it when I was going into the Ayurvedic and yogic philosophy. I feel like it's something very easy for young tuckers and seekers and a lot of us have been, I definitely was, to just go right to the cool, shiny things that is, say, dharma, and not look this down the barrel completely beyond the get paid what you're worth.   Wayne:  (36:27) Yeah. Yeah. It's important. I mean, we need to have a foundation to support our dharma and also our other interests in life and things that we're into. Yeah, money's been sort of tainted, I think. It's sort of there can be shame or there can be issues around having money. A lot of that comes from the way that money's been used in the past, creating these social structures and these institutions that control people and keep people operating a certain way that supports maybe a few people, but it doesn't support the collective, so it can be a grey area depending on how you're looking at it. I mean, it's important to develop a good, healthy relationship with that so then you can create that nice flow and that nice foundation.   Mason:  (37:27) I think, man, this is really great and, as you said, allowing that relationship to develop. I feel like it's something that can't be really learned quickly. We were so heavily programmed by a very marketing and sales-driven culture, basically, which is fine. We've all learned a lot through that experience. However, not just going and just jumping over into a motivational, entrepreneurial speaker to give you the download of how you should approach and relate to money now. I think that's something I see a lot, as well. What's coming up for me is just how much respect in terms of a nice, slow emerging process for you to reevaluate your relationship to money, to wealth, and what relevance it actually has in your personal life, not the relevance based on ego or social standing.   Wayne:  (38:33) Well, it's a practical tool that creates opportunities and that's important. We need that. I mean, everybody wants to have more opportunities and more freedom to be able to experience their self and their environment. Yeah, I think it's always been regarded as an important factor in terms of pursuing happiness and contentment and all these spiritual practices that people have been engaging in for thousands of years.   Wayne:  (39:11) Coming to the third one, this is another interesting goal of life that we especially if people are more inclined to very intense and focused spiritual paths they tend to overlook, as well. Actually, you know what? I just have to correct myself from 15 minutes ago. Artha is the translation for wealth. Kama is the translation for desires or passions. Sorry I got that mixed up.   Wayne:  (39:50) Actually, let me just ... I'll give you the sutra and then we can work from there. The sutra goes [Sanskrit 00:39:55], which translates as wealth, sorry, life path, , desire, and liberation are the four goals of life and health is the foundation for achieving those four goals. That's one of the basic original sutras in vedic culture and also in Ayurvedic culture.   Wayne:  (40:20) nYeah, the third one is desire, so that's where there are things that you're interested in in life that may not necessarily directly equate to you becoming wealthy or supporting yourself or following your life path, so it's really important that ... I use the example of watching David Attenborough. Now, I used to watch David Attenborough when I was kid, six o'clock on Saturday afternoon, and I loved it. And I still do. I mean, the insight into our natural world is just phenomenal. It's a great experience for me personally.   Wayne:  (40:58) That's not something that's engaged in my occupation or what I do for a living, but I'm interested. What it outlines is that we have to follow those interests. We have to develop that ability, that healthy ability to be curious with our environment. That can be anything. That can be music, could be the arts. It can be anything that is unique to you that you need to explore that's personal. It's a wonderful thing.   Wayne:  (41:28) I mean, if we work all the time, then life can become a little bit dry, even though we're doing our purpose. If we're earning all the time, that can become dry if we're not actually enjoying and having quality of life and just being in this beautiful place. We're on a rock that grows humans flying through space. It's an incredible experience and it's bloody unusual thing that we're actually doing that we don't really think about. It's important that we stop and reflect and find out well, what am I curious about in this process for this time that I'm alive. Do things that you love. Do things that you enjoy.   Wayne:  (42:11) Kama also relates to procreation, so it's about being attracted and finding your mate in life and all of that kind of stuff. Yeah, it's like the juice of life. It's the essence. There's a term in Sanskrit called rasa, which translates as juice or melody or also it's taste. It's kind of like just nice, nice, things. Rasa is also the name for the plasma fraction in the blood and rasina is the translation of rejuvenative therapy. If you look at the relationship between all of those different definitions, kama could also be translated as finding that rasa, your own rasa in life, your own melody, your own pleasure, things that you enjoy. That's really important.   Wayne:  (43:17) Then the fourth one is moksha. Do you want to discuss that one before we move?   Mason:  (43:25) I just thought it was cool to make that distinction between dharma and kama there, that like they're on their own track and we don't need to overly spiritually glorify every single one of our actions and try and justify it under the banner of our dharma that there is that for those of us that put a little bit more pressure on ourselves, it either has to be working towards now whether our work purpose, hopefully that's also in alignment with our life purpose, but just allowing that desire to sit there and be that healthy aspect of exploration without that needing to be like how does this align with my path or monetization.   Wayne:  (44:04) Yeah. Yeah, if we can find a balance between those three, we're 80% of the way. We're 75% of the way. The fourth one is moksha, which translates as liberation or freedom, so that's where a lot of these spiritual paths come in because the objective is to get to know who you are. At the essence of most spiritual paths that I'm aware of is that it's all about a relationship with self and undoing all of the gunk and all of the fear and all of the different things that get stuck to you throughout your life. I mean, as soon as we come into existence, we're conditioned. We're conditioned through our societies, through our cultures, through people that we interact with. We're conditioned through our traumas during school and all of these sort of processes that put us into different boxes and coming from the side.   Wayne:  (45:09) Moksha is about undoing and unraveling all of that stuff. If you take away the trauma, you take away the fears, the anxieties, the grief, the anger, the irritability, the depression, all that kind of stuff, you peel all that back and you're left with you. It's just that witnessing factor that is there but it's not being filtered or distorted through mental faculties that create an illusion. I think that's the essence of yoga practice, as well. It's where you just become you're suspended in that state of pure awareness. That's always been regarded as a really important factor during vedic times, in vedic civilizations and I think it filters into Buddhism and Hinduism and all those Eastern philosophies, as well. It's coming back to the origin and existence.   Wayne:  (46:03) That's like the ultimate goal as a spiritual person is to become enlightened, but if we look at that also from the practical level, we can address that on a day-to-day basis. For example, if I have anxiety around getting on a plane and traveling because I've got a fear of heights or something like that, then that fear is always going to be limiting my experience and my capacity to really explore my reality, explore, explore, explore the world.   Wayne:  (46:45) By looking at moksha at smaller increments along that path to enlightenment, well, then we can start addressing and looking at all things. Where do we have self-imposed limitations? Where are we holding ourselves back in terms of preventing ourselves from having beautiful experiences because we're scared of something?   Wayne:  (47:11) If you look at most behavioral conditions and mental health conditions, there's always a fear at the very core of that, which is a contracted state, so moving beyond that a day-to-day basis, so if I jump on a plane and I go and travel to a different country and I meet all of these beautiful people and experiencing different geographical locations, well, then I'm in an expansive state. My reality is increasing. That can be anything from day-to-day basis, so wherever there's some sort of resistance, that's an opportunity for a form of liberation, which then will contribute to more increments of fear or self-imposed limitations and beliefs coming apart and then all of a sudden, you just find yourself feeling happy for no reason.   Mason:  (48:13) Yeah, well spontaneous happiness, that's something that I did back when I was looking at bringing ashwagandha back into the range and looking at the general intentions behind the tonics and the Ayurvedic system that spontaneous laughter and spontaneous joy was one of the key in some of the texts I was looking at and looking at Michael Tierra, who's an Ayurvedic practitioner, as well. Just looking at his, that was one of the things that kept on popping up in a couple of other texts, as well. I was like oh, how fantastic just as an intention and to have that possibility and those four goals and then the foundations in the sutra. You're saying that the foundation is health and then very obviously seeing that you're not going to be able to actually separate health from the expression of these goals to begin with, that we're all talking about the same thing and they're going to be feeding into that health.   Mason:  (49:11) Then you go on and we start looking at disease and injury occurring in the body sometimes can be a catalyst for growth, I'm sure, in some of those four areas. However, I think this is something fair to say, as well. We don't want to have to rely on trauma or anything with our health being a catalyst for us getting onto our path or needing to make wealth and so on and so forth. If we can, just bring awareness and stay in a place of health and digestive balance and then just go on a little bit smoothly. It doesn't do good for a memoirs or a biography or anything like that, but it's probably a little bit smoother along the line. From there, we start looking at origins of disease and Ayurveda. It's probably a huge conversation. We're pretty ambitious about what we were going to cover today, so we might have to have another.   Wayne:  (50:08) We didn't get far, did we?   Mason:  (50:12) Well, I mean, but I'm still interested to touch base and then to be honest, I think I want to touch base on cleansing procedures, but I think we're almost going to have to have an entire panchakarma conversation. Let's just start looking at this origin of disease in a very ground level from your approach.   Wayne:  (50:33) Yeah. Okay. Just in response to what we've just discussed, looking at what constitutes health and spontaneous joy, it's really important to have a benchmark or an understanding or reference point to what the definition of health actually looks like. This has been clearly explained in classical Ayurvedic texts. Basically, the translation is one with balanced doshas, so the balance of Vata, Pitta, and Kapha, so in a really simplified sense, we can say if we have good communication between the body and good, healthy, unrestricted movement that's not excessive or deficient, if we have good regulating processes that determine our homeostatic thermostat and temperature and if we have good stability within those tissue systems, that could be defined as Vata, Pitta, or Kapha.   Wayne:  (51:48) Balanced doshas, balanced digestion, so being able to properly disassemble and absorb nutrients and separate them into waste products, balanced tissues, so plasma, blood, muscle, fat, bone, and marrow reproductive tissue and balanced waste products, so a good balance of sweat, urine, and feces, and one whose senses, mind, and body are full of bliss is defined as a healthy person.   Wayne:  (52:21) I mean, they've set the benchmark pretty high, but I think it's really important to know where we're heading, so what are we capable of? What is the potential of human health and wellbeing because if we're only basing it based on how we feel today and how we feel tomorrow, we're only going to be able to work within a certain parameter or certain frameworks. We can then gauge that maybe we feel better than we did last week, but if we don't understand well, how could we feel, like what is the sum total of good, well-balanced health, well, then how do we move towards that? How do we move towards a state of balance? I love the fact that they acknowledge that the mind, body, and senses are full of bliss. We can use that as a gauge. Sometimes we just feel good for no reason.   Mason:  (53:19) Mm-hmm (affirmative), and that's okay. Yeah. That's not a weird thing. You're not a weirdo.   Wayne:  (53:23) Yeah. Yeah. Well, it shouldn't be regarded as an unusual thing.   Mason:  (53:27) Well, you were talking about confusion before and the fact that you can be in a relaxed state of confusion. I thought that's really good. It's a real like you turned up to work with a smile on your face. "Hey, how you going?" "Yeah, I'm confused. Yeah, thanks for asking."   Wayne:  (53:43) Well, the thing is, I think it's just important not to take life too seriously. It's important to honor it and make the most of it, but not to get too caught up in it and feel as though you have to be something that you're not in this moment. As long as you're tracking towards, moving towards that definition of health and you're consciously aware of your life path and earning and creating good, solid foundation there, exploring the things that you're interested in, looking to move through your fears and move towards getting to know yourself better, that's great. Just do that, but if you're not there, it's okay.   Mason:  (54:24) Yeah. Having that intention to move towards that place I think is nice without that pressure coming at it from that place of joy and even allowing yourself to be confused in a nice, relaxed way in terms of what health is and what you're moving towards because it can get a little bit daunting when you just go oh, there it is. It's that simple laid out in front of me and this is what I need to get to that elevated state of health. Of course, in practice, in life, it's never going to be that simple. It's in the texts. I haven't studied Ayurvedic texts and vedic texts much, but I know in the Taoist texts or in many traditions around the world, it's acknowledged that here it is. It's very basic, but we understand the complexity of life, as well, so just know that it is going to be a unique journey, as well.   Mason:  (55:16) I mean, in terms of the origins of disease, we see very quickly there if we're looking for harmony and we're looking for aspects of our health to be in alignment with each other, if they're not, we're going to see, say, we're going to see imbalance emerge. We're going to see disease emerge. I think what's nice, I think everyone sees a lot of what I've seen Ayurveda in the past heavily revolving around treating illness and not seeing yoga being practiced in a way that was holistic enough to really bring forth a well, and this is just the yoga that I went and sought, bringing about this well-rounded, robust health that we're talking about and is somewhat why I moved in the direction towards Taoist practices just because I wasn't looking in the right places.   Mason:  (56:11) The Taoists took it in a different direction, but of course it's somewhat the child of Ayurveda. That is definitely the ancestor in here, so no doubt there might've been some elaborations and different focuses based on the different terrains and mindsets. Of course, Ayurveda is going to have it covered completely as a system. In terms of disease, are you feeling to touch base on anything relevant there and how it has its origins?   Wayne:  (56:45) Yeah, so in terms of disease and its origins, Ayurveda defines three causes of disease to be at the core of all physiological and mental imbalances. The first one is known as parinam, which relates to environmental factors and time, so there's certain within this experience and these elements in this physical universe, there is a process of growth and degeneration. It's a basic mechanism that's at the origins of all cellular biochemical function.   Wayne:  (57:31) Basically, we have, at a cellular level, we have things like DNA that create, store the blueprint of the production of amino acids and proteins and tissue-building components. Then we have, say for example, the metabolic processes that generate the energy so that can come from a potential into a process of potential, so we've got the stored intelligence that then organizes itself into tissue-building components. There's a process of that and then eventually, we get what is the product of that creative potential, which is considered as the known or the form or what is expressed from that nonphysical creative intelligence.   Wayne:  (58:23) Then after that, we get that degenerative process, so eventually, that cell will go back into a state of degeneration. Those elements and those atomic particles will then be transferred into generating new creative potential, the expression of that creative potential and what's expressed from that. Time is a process that is going to be influencing our physiology. I mean, nobody's getting out of here alive. There is a lifespan that we have and we're just part of that. That is a cause of disease.   Mason:  (58:56) Right, and the speeding up of these processes... In some of the instances.   Wayne:  (58:56) Yeah.   Mason:  (58:56) What are you looking at in terms if you look at your lifestyle, what are ... Some of these might seem obvious, but I'm keen to hear especially in these aspects of lifestyle, I imagine we're looking at diet and movement and so on and so forth, but one of the things, if we're looking at the origin of disease, especially disease coming up down especially when we start aging and we get into that death cycle a little bit more. How do you approach some of the key areas to stay in harmony and not allow disease to come up in a body and how have you approached them in a way that allows you to stay consistent and not get swept off into anything new, necessarily get swept off and go into something that's like a fad or what's the next best thing. How do you approach that?   Wayne:  (59:53) Well, the way that I approach that personally is that I apply these principles and I'll measure whatever fads or whatever health trends or exercise trends that are coming through and I'll look at how that translates into these basic mechanics of life. As an Ayurvedic practitioner, I can appreciate the fact that Ayurveda is not a manmade system of healthcare. It's an observable system of nature. What we're looking at, we're looking at the principles of how nature evolves and fluctuates and what are the laws around that that bring about happiness and joy and sustainable physiology and what destroys it. I'll use those principles and look at how that ties into whatever the latest herb is or whatever the latest berry is or exercise or cleanse or whatever because, I mean, the thing is, it's a multibillion dollar industry. There's always going to be something new. The industry needs to continuously recreate itself to keep people engaged and interested in that.   Wayne:  (01:01:10) That's why I really appreciate Ayurvedic systems is because we're not trying to create anything. We're looking at how we sustain life, how we sustain the basic mechanisms of life that support cellular health, that support mental, physiological health, support our sense organs so we can maintain good, clear, direct perception with our external environment.   Wayne:  (01:01:36) In relation to the other two causes of disease, excuse me, I use these as a basic indicator of how I'm tracking and what my relationship is with the external environment, so the second one is known as asatmya indriyartha samyoga, which means improper utilization of the organs of perception and their objects.   Wayne:  (01:02:01) For example, if I'm continuously staring at a computer screen for six hours, writing or doing whatever I do, I know that that's going to start affecting my retina. I know that it's going to start influencing things like melatonin release or I'm lucky if I'm watching, I'm on my computer at night and I'm going to bed now it's time, I know that that may affect my melatonin. If I affect my melatonin, then I'm going to have difficulty getting to sleep. If I have difficulty getting to sleep, I'm not going to possibly get into good REM three or four sleep state, which means I'm not going to efficiently break down beta amyloid plaque, which means I'm not going to organize the information very well in my brain. It is then going to result in me waking up tired in the morning and that will potentially have further impact on digestive functions and homeostasis and that sort of thing. It's important that we have correct relationship with the objects that we're perceiving through our sense organs.   Wayne:  (01:03:05) That's a big one. That's a big one culturally for us because we have these devices constantly where they're attached to us. We're constantly looking at them. We're looking at them at night. They're influencing our mood state. They can be generating anxiety. They can be generating depression, dependence, addictions, all that kind of stuff. That's a big one from an Ayurvedic perspective.   Wayne:  (01:03:31) the third one is known as pragnyaparadha, which translates as the misuse of intelligence. This is considered as the main cause of disease. Basically, this is not exercising our physiology and our mental faculties in an intelligent way. I know that Coke is going to affect my glucose levels. I know it's probably going to lead to inflammation. I know that it's got caffeine. I know that it's highly processed, but sooner or later, I'm probably going to succumb to drinking a can of Coke on a hot day at some point. This is where we misuse our intelligence and we start generating things that start causing imbalance physiologically.   Wayne:  (01:04:18) If we look at what that mechanism, how that might look physiologically, if I'm staying up watching Netflix until 2:00 in the morning, I start affecting my sleep patterns. I start creating ... I'm not feeling as clear and as awake the following day. Then I start becoming stressed out because I'm falling behind or I'm not reaching my targets terms of or whatever it is that I have to do or I'm just not relating to the people around me very well because I'm tired. That starts to disrupt my hormonal system. That'll put me into a sympathetic state. I'll start producing more adrenaline and then all of a sudden, my digestive system starts to just not function as efficiently.   Wayne:  (01:05:17) This is the basic kind of process of disease from an Ayurvedic perspective. This is pretty much how most chronic health issues start to manifest. Once we start disrupting our neurohormonal systems, then our digestive systems start to be disrupted, so all of those neural pathways that service digestive function influence enzymatic production. They influence peristalsis, transit time, digestion, so if I'm eating food or I'm eating food at the wrong times, I might not be efficiently separating food substances or absorbable nutrients and waste products.   Wayne:  (01:06:00) That's pretty much the whole function of the gut is to take food and turn it into healthy tissue and to separate the waste product and move it on and effectively eliminate it from the system. If I'm not digesting that efficiently, I end up with a byproduct of that digestive process and we call this ama in Ayurveda. I think the best translation of ama is gunk. It's not toxin. It's just gunk. It's just like digestive residue that starts to coat the lining of the stomach, whether it's in the stomach, small intestines, or the large intestine. Then that starts to further hinder the quality of digestion absorption and eventually, that gunk starts to move into the bloodstream, so it starts to influence the quality of plasma and blood. Then that's where we get symptoms of fatigue, lethargy, foggy mind, all of those initial symptoms of not feeling well, not feeling hundred percent.   Wayne:  (01:07:07) The problem is, is if that gunk isn't efficiently removed from the system, it might find its way into the joints, so it might start accumulating in my knees, for example. If I've got a genetic predisposition let's say rheumatoid arthritis or autoimmune conditions in the family, it might mean that that is the most compromised tissue system in the body so that starts to build up there because the immune system is a little bit more compromised. Eventually, I might start having symptoms of heat, redness, inflammation, swelling, and eventually, I might use some Voltaren or some-   Mason:  (01:07:53) That's good stuff.   Wayne:  (01:07:54) ... chemist antiinflammatories. I use that so I'm not feeling the pain. I'm not feeling the discomfort. Over a period of time, my immune system is going to develop a non-local response. We call this an autoimmune response, so then we activate this autoimmune condition and then all of a sudden, we have this degenerative-type process happening in the knees. Then further along that line, we end up with a lot of tissue damage. Then we end up with possible fusion or deformity of the joints. That's usually the time that we'll diagnose that as rheumatoid arthritis.   Mason:  (01:08:34) Right, so a little bit too late.   Wayne:  (01:08:36) Yeah, so if we track that all the way back, all the way through from the joint to the channels of circulation back through the intestinal wall into the stomach through the neural pathways and the hormonal pathways back into the endocrine system, back into the brain, back into the mind, back into the choices, we can see that everything stems from misuse of intelligence or just directing our physiology or mind or functioning in a way that's conducive to health and wellbeing.   Mason:  (01:09:10) There's so many things to unpack there. I definitely feel like from the cleansing perspective, I think we're going to have to do another podcast just covering that. Otherwise, we're going to end up with a super, mega three hour fest on our hands here. I then like if you track back to the wealth goal or [inaudible 01:09:38] in one where you take responsibility and I can see that can become so overbearing at times, especially if you don't have dharma in your life and so then your kama desire somewhat gets a little bit suppressed there and you need to sneak it in.   Mason:  (01:09:56) Therefore, some of the mental choices you're making through your mental patterns and your intellect are going to be towards those to I'm thinking something which isn't being acknowledge and take you down that track where you're going to consistently have a practice that is not going to be revolving around acknowledging what you are actually perceiving around what you know and feel is going to be right for your own path. You have sustained your own destiny and, therefore, you might stay up consistently late consistently.   Mason:  (01:10:25) This is something I can really empathize with that these patterns can seem like they can and addicts will definitely know that you can even slight stealth addictions, they can be overbearing. You really got to get in there early or now. No matter what it is, whether it's food or just that little bit more booze at night or even social media or TV and just of knock it on the head because doesn't matter how much you make distinctions around not watching that screen and getting that blue light at night, so you're setting up the sleep environment so that your digestive health can be rocking so down. There's only so much you can do in terms of looking at the health practices. Hopefully, they can crack it, but a lot of the time, they can't crack those mental patterns, so you got to get in there.   Wayne:  (01:11:12) Yeah. This is where your life purpose becomes really important because if there are addictions, if there are attachments to alcohol, drugs, sex, whatever it is for the individual, there needs to be something that's greater than the sum total of those attachments. It's unrealistic to think that somebody's just going to give those up because what are they replacing it with? Nothing, which means that they're even more miserable.   Wayne:  (01:11:43) At least there is pleasure. At least there's something that they can have for a moment where they go all right, this is nice. This is an escape from the discomfort that I experience through my own thought patterns or my repetitive behaviors or the situation that I've created for myself or the situation that I found myself in. I think this is why things like yoga practice and things that bring us back to finding the simplicity and the aspects of our existence that encourage us to make better choices and to just generally feel better.   Mason:  (01:12:24) I love it, man. Guys, I do apologize we went rambling on, but I feel like it's been the best and talked, rambling about the four goals. We'll do another pod around cleansing procedures and medicated fats, as well. I think it's a good idea. This has got a little fire around having done so much work and seeing the fabric and the intent that goes into a lifestyle. I just like to hear a couple of real core pillar lifestyle things, superficial things that you're doing to maintain your health. Are you still on the mat practicing Brazilian jujitsu? Is that one of your core things still?   Wayne:  (01:13:03) Yeah, it's definitely a core thing. I've got a knee injury at the moment, so I haven't trained for about six weeks, which is very difficult because that's part of my mental health practice. That's what helps to keep my mind balanced and physiologically well. I mean, yeah. Things that I'm finding that are really working for me at the moment is maintaining a regular yoga practice in the morning, because I start my day well if I do that, and pranayama breathing techniques. I've been doing the Wim Hof breathing for probably the last nine months or so.   Wayne:  (01:13:42) I find it's quite an aggressive form of pranayama, but it really helps to reset your hormonal profiles. It's like it floods your system with adrenaline and then your body kind of resets and reprograms. It's a really good way for people to start getting back into or introducing them into the benefits of breathing. Yeah, good water, good air, and regular exercise. I think that's even more important than food. If there is stress, if there is cortisol, if you're under pressure, just using these traditional herbs and Ayurvedic medic

Hugh Millen weighs in on what to expect from Sunday's game. Both teams have struggled on the O-line. Who will win the battle at the line of scrimmage? Rhea Hughes of 94 WIP has thoughts on the game from the Philadelphia perspective. If the Hawks win this game on Sunday, they will play as many playoff games under Pete Carroll as they had in the 34 seasons prior to his arrival. More pieces of information like that on Stats are for Losers. Dixon has had an outstanding track record of prediction games this season. Now let's see how he does in the playoffs on another edition of the DPI. That'll do it for this week's shows. Just two days until the game in Philly. Go Hawks!

Entrepreneurs dream about starting their own business, but they can’t afford it. How can they reach their financial goals and objectives to fund and grow their business? Most of them borrow money from their friends, parents, and/or credit cards.  Today, I am talking to Bruce Mack of Platinum Trust Group. Bruce is an avid real estate investor and licensed financial advisor. He shares seven options to fund your business and take it to the next level. You’ll Learn... [03:54] Option 1: Revolving Lines of Credit Program is easy to qualify for with 700+ FICO score and more than one open lines of credit; no business plan, collateral needed.  [08:55] Option 2: Installment-based Lending Platform features 25 lenders offering $1,000 to $50,000 with lower FICO score, but provable income. [12:25] Option 3: Business Directed Retirement Account (BDRA) is rollable IRA or 401(k) where funds from previous employers are accessible for specific transactions.  [18:28] Option 4: Transactional Funding for A2B, B2C transactions, such as funds for wholesale flips. [20:07] Option 5: Platinum Trust Group/Division offers bulletproof asset protection and ability to save passive income money to repurpose.  [24:48] Option 6: Private and Hard Money Solutions with low annual percentage rates (APRs) and 1-2 points to cash out rental property income to deploy on new projects. [26:42] Option 7: Plug-and-Play Scenario is relationship-oriented opportunity to connect and network with partners and sponsors.  [29:17] Where to start? Typically, it takes about $75,000 to get your business started. [32:56] Funding Mindset: If you don’t want to go into debt to do anything, it may hold you back from growing your business and generating revenue.  [35:35] Constant Lawsuits: Property managers/management companies that aren’t real estate investors are in high-risk business. Tweetables Donuts to Dollars: Entrepreneurs start businesses thanks to friends, family, and credit cards. Plug-and-Play Option: You never know, who you know. Get your project going. You’re in the wrong business, if you don’t want to go into debt to grow your business and generate revenue. Protect your assets! Property managers/management companies that aren’t real estate investors face constant lawsuits. Resources Platinum Trust Group Platinum Financing Group FICO Fundbox IRA 401(k) Real Estate Investor Association (REIA) DoorGrowClub Facebook Group DoorGrowLive DoorGrow on YouTube DoorGrow Website Score Quiz Transcript Jason: Welcome to DoorGrow Hackers to the DoorGrow Show. If you are a property management entrepreneur that wants to add doors, make a difference, increase revenue, help others impact lives and you are interested in growing your business and life and you're open to doing things a bit differently, then you are a DoorGrow Hacker. DoorGrow Hackers love the opportunity, daily variety, unique challenges and freedom that property management brings. Many in real estate think you're crazy for doing it, you think they're crazy for not, because you realize that property management is the ultimate, high trust gateway to real estate deals, relationships and the residual income. At DoorGrow, we are on a mission to transform property management businesses and their owners. We want to transform the industry, eliminate the BS, build awareness, change perception, expand the market and help the best property management entrepreneurs win. I'm your host, property management growth expert, Jason Hull, the founder and CEO of DoorGrow. Now, let's get into the show. Today's guest, who I'm hanging out with, is Bruce Mack of Platinum Trust Group. Bruce, welcome to the show. Bruce: Thank you so much. I really appreciate it and you definitely are unbelievable at your opening. Jason: Thank you. It's built around all the challenges that we've heard in the industry and what our client-centric mission is as a company. I wanted to fold all that into our intro and I appreciate you giving us some positive feedback on it. Bruce, I'm really interested in getting into this. Today's topic is seven options to fund your business. This is a common challenge of people not being able to afford to do work with us, being able to afford to do the things they need to do to grow their business. This is a common challenge. There's a lot of entrepreneurs that are just trying to operate just paycheck to paycheck. In order to get ahead and grow the business, they need to find some funding, or get some money, or figure out how to make it work, or save something in order to make that work. Before we get into that, could you give everybody a bit of a background? Let's qualify you, help them understand how you got into what you're doing? Tell us, who is Bruce? Bruce: Well, in a couple of sentences or at least a short paragraph, I am an avid real estate investor, have been in a three-year period of time. I was able to buy rehab and flipped out over 160 properties. I've been involved with over $92 million worth of real estate transactions, SFR’s, as well as commercial. I'm a licensed financial advisor, prior owner and operator of a credit repair company that was also a licensed and bonded. I've been around the block. I love working with real estate investors. I speak to them all over the world, as well as nationally and have been at countless events helping folks just like the folks that are on this podcast, to be able to reach their financial goals and objectives, through getting them the rudimentary financing that they need so they can take their business to the next level. Jason: Okay, great. Let's get into the seven options. I guess we're starting with number one. Bruce: Okay, let's start with number one. One of our premiere programs that we use on a daily basis is what I call our revolving lines of credit program. Now, the nice thing is with this particular program, is that there are a lot of no's, but these are no’s that you want to hear, not no’s that you don't want to hear. Bruce: One of the no’s is that you don't have to have a business plan. Another no is that you don't have to have collateral pledged to be able to qualify for this, so if you don't have any collateral, i.e. properties, what have you, or other hard assets, there are no collateral pledges. Another no is that you don't have to have an income verification because it's a stated program. Without a business plan, without having a stated income, without having to go through a bunch of hoops, this makes it an easy qualify program. The key qualifiers are having a FICO score, ideally north of 700 or 700 when we put you through the program, and having more than one (ideally) open lines of credit with a credit card that would be at least $6000, $7000, $7500 worth of credit limit, and at the time that we put you through, you're ideally at 30% or lower on your utilization. Let's just say you have a $10,000 credit card. Let's say you have a $7000 balance currently, that would be at %70 utilization. What I'm saying is that we’d like to see that that $10,000 credit card has no more than %30 utilization or that you're not currently carrying more than a $30,000 balance. Now, if you are, because there's too much month, not enough money and therefore you have higher balances, we do have a solution. We do have another funding division that will likely take a look at those balances and work with you to actually pay them down for you, so that therefore your scores will skyrocket to where we need them to be, your utilization ratios will plummet to where we need them to be, so that we get the maximum results. The maximum results is our average client on a first round funding gets $75,000 worth of revolving lines of credit as much as $150,000 on a first round fund. When done properly and if we have a client that comes to us with longevity of accounts, no derogatory, so on and so forth, of course, that's going to get us all a better net result for the client on the back-end. Again these lines of credit are all at 0% APR for up to 21 months. Jason: Okay, but the cruz behind this is that they've got to have good credit in place in order to do this one. Bruce: Well, there's a couple of other if’s, and’s, and but’s, so let's talk about them briefly. Number one, because of that high utilization, we have taken people with scores as low as 620 and just by paying down those balances, they've shot their scores up within a several week period of time to well over 700 and then we can put them through. Today's present credit score may qualify you even if you're not knocking on the 700 door or higher, we need to do a consultation and see if the net effect of paying down those cards is going to get you to where we need you to be. Secondarily, we do have a secondary program, in as much as if the client can't qualify, but they have what we call a credit partner—maybe it's a partner in their business, maybe it's a relative, a friend—we can use a credit partner to get the same results, thus being able to put them through the program and that could be a win-win. There's a number of different ways we can literally skin the cat to get to the desired result, which is to get the client funded on that program. Jason: All right. You’re going to help them the pay down process, they can use a credit partner, there's a couple of options there. That's number one, the revolving lines of credit program. Bruce: Number two, one of our other core programs is we have 25 lenders. We have a platform for the 25 lenders and they are offering on the platform anywhere from $1000 to $50,000. We can stack those offers, so if you were to get two $50,000 offers, obviously you pony those up and parlay them into $100,000. Now, we can take more credit-challenged folks. We have gotten people some funding with FICO’s as low as 580. The key here is that there needs to be provable income, where the income on the revolving lines of credit is stated. These will need to be proved up through either showing the last couple of pay stubs and/or from their doing account validation by showing bank statements, 1099s, a year's tax return or what have you. Jason: Okay. Bruce: Very, very simple program, 12 questions asked and answered online, a soft pool with instantaneous pre-approvals and funding within usually a week or a week-and-a-half. This is a secondary program that can be used. We use it all the time and it's very, very effective. Jason: With these 25 lenders, these would be people like maybe Fundbox and some of the services out there. Would it be like those kinds of companies? Bruce: Could be, yes. We have our own lender pool that we work with. The nice thing is, there are a number of lenders that you can apply to on the net today, tomorrow, yesterday, what have you, but that's problematic. Every time you apply, you're going to be getting an inquiry. Every inquiry's going to be anywhere from two to several points and it starts to drag down your profile. Worse than that, other creditors that your applying with, see than you’ve been applying. The way we do it is when you access our platform with one soft inquiry, so it doesn't even show on your report, you're getting one or multiple preapprovals from multiple lenders at multiple options in terms of length anywhere from 12 months out to as long as 60 months or five years. This is an ideal way where you have no FICO hit, no negatives, only positives and you can get the pre approvals before you even press the accept button and go into what we call the final underwriting or the hard underwriting. Jason: Got it. Anything else to know about this second option? What would you call this second option? You're 25 lenders platform or? Bruce: Our 25 letters platform or our installment-based lending platform. Jason: Got it, installment-based. All right, so we’re on the number three now. Bruce: Number three. Let's talk about what we call our BDRA. Our BDRA stands for Business Directed Retirement Account. Now, many of the people that are on the podcast have a rollable IRA or 401(k). Maybe, they're even working and are aware that they have a roll-able IRA or 401(k) amount. Let's just say that you're currently working at an employer. You may have $100,000 there and your employers told you, “Well, you can't touch that, it's not rollable.” They’re may be half correct, because prior to coming to the existing employer, you worked at another employer. When you're at that other employer, guess what? You had a $50,000 IRA, which you’ve been rolled over to your present employer. Well, I'm here to tell you some really great news. You can do what's called a carve-out, so you can take those moneys and move them from your present employer, because those were moneys that came from a previous employer and you can automatically put them into what we call our BDRA. That BDRA is a wonderful opportunity for you to be able to access those funds to do what you want and what you want with them. Jason: That’s called what again? Bruce: Business Directed Retirement Account. Jason: Okay, got it. Bruce: Now, it's not a very, very different than a self-directed normal account. Some self-directed retirement accounts have the ability to give you checkbook capability, which is great. The BDRA coincidentally also does, but many of the self-directed accounts are accounts that once you moved on from your old employer, you've moved them into a self-directed environment so that you can tell your money what you want it to do. The problem with the traditional IRA or 401(k) in a self-directed environment (which many administrators that are out there and offer these types of accounts) is that you cannot use these but for very specific types of transactions. Let's just take a typical real estate transaction, a house costs $200,000, you have $100,000 in the self-directed retirement account. You need to come up with $100,000. Now, unfortunately, you cannot obligate a self-directed retirement account, a traditional type, not ours, but a traditional type and you cannot take on a recourse loan, because one of the exemptions is you cannot sign and obligate your IRA or your 401(k) to an external obligation. If you can't do that whole deal inside your IRA, you're pooched. You can't do the deal. Now, there is the possibility of taking on what's called a non recourse loan where you wouldn't sign. However, there are very few and far between. They never go more than 50% of LTV and they're usually a couple of points higher for all the right reasons. You’re only having a collateralized value of the loan. With a BDRA, I've got great news, you can take recourse loans on and it's not a violation of the BDRA precepts. Secondarily, when you have a normal IRA or 401(k), unfortunately, you're exempt from being able to do what we call inter familiar transactions because they're called a prohibited transaction. Meaning, father-sister, mother-brother, siblings what have you, you plain and simple are not allowed to invest with them because it's prohibited. That is not the case with the self-directed that we have in the BDRA environment. Third, you can put up to $53,000 of your annual salary into this tax deferred vehicle where you cannot with a traditional IRA or 401(k) that’s self-directed. Fourth, you can use the money for any business purpose. Now, you mentioned earlier that you've got coaching programs sometimes that are $10, $20, $30, $40, $50 whatever the amount is, it makes no difference, but the flexibility of the BDRA is a beautiful thing because BDRA funds can be used for any business purpose whatsoever. When you talk about a traditional IRA or 401(k), they're very finite, they're very linear, real estate being one of them, stocks and bonds being another, and there's a couple of others, and pretty much after that, you're out of luck. The flexibility that the BDRA brings to the table is phenomenal, and it is a great way to resource funds for enhancing your real estate business not only from the buying of the doors perspective, but from doing rehabs, for potentially using it for marketing money, to expand your net. There's many, many different ways that these moneys can be used that are all in conformity. Jason: Okay. Alright, BDRA is number three. Number four? Bruce: We have transactional funding. With our transactional funding, I'm sure a number of folks that are on this podcast are engaged with wholesale flips, where you're doing an A to B and B to C transaction. Well, we have transactional funding. We have $1 million on the sidelines at all time. You let us know, give us a couple of days notice. I mean, give us more notice than that, but within a couple of days, we can get the funds prepared, move them electronically to your escrow so that you can close and not have to be out of pocket if you're the wholesaler, and get the job done. The fee cost for that is the most reasonable that I've seen in the industry. The cost for funds is only 1.75% and a $495 transaction fee or our processing fee. Call it what you will. That’s another win-win strategy if you're a wholesaler, and you don't have the funds, and you're going to a traditional escrow. This is a perfect, perfect way to make everything come together so that you can get your property sold to that new buyer. Jason: Is that everything about transactional funding? Bruce: That's everything about transactional funding. Short and sweet. Jason: All right, let's look at number five. Bruce: Let's talk about number five. Now this is an esoteric way of getting funding, but saving the dollar obviously gives you $1 as I put it, redeploy or repurpose and I'm sure we all agree with that, and saving tens of thousands of dollars or more starts to become very, very interesting, let’s tell you how. On the other side of our business, we have our trust division. It's called platinum trust group. Platinum trust group is dedicated to bulletproof asset protection. I'll touch on that in a moment, but let me talk about the money aspect where you can redeploy. Real estate investors by the nature of who they are and what they're [...] are involved with two types in multiple streams of what we call passive income. The passive income that we're talking about would either be long or short term capital gains and/or lease and/or rental income. That is the sum and substance of what it's all about. One or the other. With our proprietary trust which we have 58 copyrights on, we've had the trust for over 20 years, we have over 31,000 clients on this program. As a real estate investor, when the properties are sold or the rents are collected, money goes into the corpus of the trust. However, the good news is, you can use the trust for any trust-related activities which would be anything other than what we call food, fun, or fashion. Now you're doing all your business out of the trust. Don't get me wrong. That doesn't mean you can't buy properties, you can't buy cars, that doesn't mean that you can't act in a fiduciary capacity as a trustee to do everything you would normally be doing on a daily basis. The good news is, that moneys, that long- and short-term capital gains which could be 20%, 30% depending, and/or the income from the lease and rental income, the fact that it goes into corpus and stays in the corpus, and that it’s deferred in perpetuity means you're not going to have the tax bill at the end of the year. Now, we have many investors who have tax bills in the $50,000, $100,000, $200,000 a year and are paying quarterlies that are enough to choke a horse. We're able to defer up to 97% of that annual tax liability, including the quarterlies, and deferred out in perpetuity, which means in 21 years, after the last of the beneficiary heir’s deceased, i.e., 100, 200, 300 years from now, we now have a vehicle that nobody in your family tree is going to have the tax consequence and certainly not you, and now we've got all of this additional liquidity that we can be using for investment purposes and is a huge win for our real estate investors. That's only one piece of the coin because the other side of that coin is the bulletproof asset protection, because you can never have a lien or judgment executed against you. It can't happen, let alone your properties because your properties are in the titanium vault of the trust. This is huge and this is a great, great income opportunity and/or savings opportunity for you. I think we're at number six or are we in number five? Jason: We’re at number six. Bruce: All right. Jason: That was number five. Basically. we will call that your trust division. Bruce: Okay, number six. We have a number of private money solutions and hard money solutions. Solutions that start as low as 4.9% on the APR and 1-2 points. Solutions for clients who have rental income properties and they want to do some cash out. We had even a blanket loan program which is available in 43 states. Again, if you've got properties, we have a solution for you to be able to access a ton of money that you are currently not able to access so that you can redeploy it on new projects. This could be huge for you by our hard end or private money funding. Should you have ground-up projects that you're looking to get underway, these are other ways that we can access funds for you depending upon what the project looks like. There's just so many different machinations without knowing more. We would really need to sit and talk, but not only can we get you the blanket loans, not only can we get you the cash out refis, we can do multifamily, we can do SFRs, ground-up projects. It just depends on what it is that you're looking for. Jason: Okay, great and that's number six. Bruce: That’s number six. Jason: Private and hard money lending solutions. Let's get into number seven. Bruce: Number seven is really a relationship-oriented proposition. Because I lecture on a nationwide basis and know so many people, I am constantly sourcing and/or resourcing and putting folks together. I speak. I meet sponsors. Sponsors are always looking for people to act as general partners for with other people who are newer and/or what I would call green peas and vice-versa. I have green peas that are looking for sponsors. Just by nature, the fact that I love to network, love to help people out, and if people are looking for a connection, I'll give you an example. Yesterday, I had a guy come to me in the Seattle area. He is looking to do a conversion. He’s got 93 apartments that he wants to build in one structure. He’s looking for general partners and money partners and he's got everything ready to go. He’s got the water. He’s got the utilities. He’s got all the zoning. He’s looking for money partners and he's also looking for some management help. Well, we have the perfect fit for him because we have people who are right up in the Seattle area because I've spoken recently up in the Seattle area to 800 people at one event. That’s an easy plug-and-play scenario. Oftentimes, you just never know. I don't know where you're calling in from on a nationwide basis because I know you have callers all over the place. I'm California-centric but I travel. I was just in Boston speaking to 1000 people. You never know who you know and tell me about the situation, and if there's a possibility that we can help, we certainly can try and plug to good ends into one another so that you can make a whole and get your project going, so you can take it to the next level. Jason: Perfect. Looking at all these different methods, let’s say I get a client that comes to me and they want to hire staff. They want us folks on marketing, maybe they want to do some coaching stuff with us, they need to get office space, these typical things to get their business going. Which channel would you push them towards first? What would be the best situation for them first? Bruce: Well, if the need is an average of, say, $75,000 roughly, somewhere between $50,000-$150,000. I’ll kind of use that $100,000 spread. invariably, our revolving line of credit program is the sweet spot and we utilize that at promoter events all the time for that $20,000, that $30,000, $40,000 to get them off the home plate, to get them the coaching program that they need to get them also the initial marketing moneys that they need so that they can really start to get traction and move forward in the marketplace. It's very easy and they don't need to have any collateral. Again, it's a state of program. If the person fits the parameters, it's by far and away, the easiest, fastest, most effective, and cost-effective solution. Jason: Now, what if they just wanted something smaller? They're just getting started, they're bootstrapping. Maybe they're looking for maybe $3000-$20,000, something in there. They just need to get some additional funds to get some things going in the business. Would the recommendation still be the same vehicle? Bruce: Depending. Let's just say today the need is $3000-$20,000. Let's just say they've got $100,000 locked up at the old employer that they used to work for, General Dynamics, let's just say. They're taking that money and they're turning it in the stock market, they're getting a horrible return, and they want to take control of it. I would move all of that to self-directed environment and then parse out where you've got total control over it. Then, I would parse out whatever that amount is that you need to deploy for whatever business purpose. If they only needed $3000, $7000, or $10,000 of that $100,000, they get immediately deployed because they have total discretionary use over the funds once it's in their dominion.  Likewise, another one of our programs might be for them to engage with the 25 lender platform. In a request, only request $3000 or only request $10,000, if that's what it is they're looking for. That could be another way to go. We really need to have a discussion. It's my best suggestion to the folks that are listening because sometimes during the course of discussion, we find a $3000, $7000, or $10,000, may not actually be the sum and substance of what you're looking for depending upon where you are, and where you want to go. Maybe it is. We will come up with based upon your credit what you bring to the table, what's going to be the most cost effective way to get you there. Jason: Let's address the mindset of funding. I'm sure there's people listening and they want to bootstrap everything. They're thinking, "I don't want to go into debt to do anything." What would you say to that? Maybe that mindset is holding them back from being able to grow their businesses quickly and generate more revenue as fast. Bruce: I don't mean to be pragmatic but I would say they might be thinking about being in the wrong business if they don't want to go into debt. I bought houses utilizing credit cards before. If you go to any REIA, anywhere in the United States—if you're not familiar with the term REIA, that's Real Estate Investors Association meeting—if you go to any Real Estate Investors Association meeting anywhere in the United States and you interview, take them out for coffee, talk to them after the meeting, what have you, you ask them how do they get the funds to buy some of their first properties, I can guarantee you, dollars to donuts, that they borrowed money from a friend, borrowed money from their parents, or borrowed money from their credit cards, to get their first property. Or a combination of all three coupled together to make it happen. They didn't have the money and their checking account. It was a little devoid or little depleted at that time.  Guys, this is truly a leverage play, and an arbitrage play, when you're borrowing money at X because you can make lie times X equally that new number which is the ability to compound on the amount of money that you're using to be able to get you that much bigger amount of money at the backend. I'm a firm believer in making the right decisions and not getting these moneys for a C shed or man cave. Forget it, you don't [...] it. If that's your ultimate goal, that's not leverage. That's just sheer stupidity, a waste of time, and a waste of money. If you're looking to get these moneys to be able to deploy them in an efficacious way and to utilize them to gain the leverage to be able to get a much bigger payday down the road when you exercise your exit strategy, let's go. Let's make it happen. We're here to help and get you to your financial goal. Jason: Plant some of these things. I know there's some property managers listening that are like, "I'm not a real estate investor." Some property managers that are running property management companies are not real estate investors. I think many of them are involved but they're thinking, "What about my business? Maybe I need funding for the business." I think the same principle applies. The idea that I want to point out is mindset-wise, I think a business is probably one of the most effective (if you do this well) investments you can invest in a period. Very few things give a return on an investment that a business can. I don't think even real estate, I think a lot of things cannot yield as high of a return as a business that is profitable, and highly effective. If the investment is moving the business towards those things, I would imagine that it's going to far outplay a 401(k) or any other sort of investment. They might be throwing them dollars towards in the long run. An effective business can yield a huge return especially once they sell it. Or it can just be an ATM machine feeding them once they systemize the business and they step out of being involved in it.  If you're going to that, I think it's wise to say, make sure it's going towards the right thing. It's going to yield the ROI you're looking to get.  Bruce: May I ask a brief question? Jason: Go ahead. Bruce: About your audience. I just heard or maybe I misheard, I heard you keying in on property management, and property management companies. Is there a broad segment of your listenership that are in that space? Jason: Yes. Most of the listeners listening are people that run property management companies. They manage properties for and on behalf of investors. Bruce: Okay. Let me just say this about that. I'm going to go back to, I think, it was number six. It might've been number five but it was right in there. We talked and drilled down a little bit about our proprietary trust. Guys, I'm going to say it just like it is, you are in an uber high risk business. Property managers and property management companies, they play it simple, they get sued. Facts are one in three Americans get sued. Two in three, 66% of all surgeons get sued. Property managers, I don't know what the numbers are, but everytime I talk to a property management company, they're constantly getting sued.  Just recently, we put on several property management companies who have gotten the trust. Their prime motivating reason was to have the trust be the owner of the property management company so that they would not have liens or judgments that could be affixed to the company. Guys, this is something you definitely want to explore further. It's very important for you because of the high risk nature of the business that you're in. Jason: Yeah. I agree. I have an asset protection attorney. I think it's a wise choice for everybody who has some asset protection struff going on with things in the trust and make sure the business is protected. Very cool. We've got several people that I've spoken to even recently. They're like, "I don't have the funds to work with, Jason, but I want to work with you. We're trying to get money." Or they're trying to get their business started. Or they know there's some things they need to do and they can't just afford to do it. How can they get in touch with you? How can they reach out? What's the best way to connect with you and what you've got going on? Bruce: If you're looking for funding, I'm going to give you a web address. That web address would be platinumfinancinggroup.com. There's a calendar on there. We will get you a complimentary consult. Please, we'll ask you, make sure that you've mentioned that you came from Jason. We always want to know where clients came from. Jason: Mention DoorGrow and the DoorGrow Show. Bruce: Please. Please, please, please. That'll get you the complimentary consultation now for financing. When Jason's got great programs which I've heard nothing but fabulous things about, that can be the genesis, give you the capital to be able to move your business forward, and get his programs. Secondarily, another way to access the programs, as I've said, from the savings from the tax deferral, from the trust program, and/or talking about the trust as well as an asset protection vehicle. Because if you get wiped out, you're done. You know that. This is one way to ensure that you're not going to get wiped out. I would go to platinumtrustgroup.com. We have another calendar there.  The difference between the two, other than the information that you're going to find and the calendars that you're going to find is that the calendar times that you're going to get blocked out for are quite different. If you go to platinumtrustgroup.com, we're going to block you out for an hour. We can talk about trust. Likewise, we can also talk about funding should you have an interest in both.  If you strictly go to platinumfinancinggroup.com, you'll be directed to a calendar for 15 minute blockout. Just be aware of that. When you make the choices to where's the best entry point to get in touch with us.  Jason: If they're really looking at everything and they want to get the full kit, the best place to probably to go the platinumtrustgroup.com. You can also help them with the financing side of things as well. Bruce: Absolutely. Jason: Perfect. Bruce, it's been fabulous having you on the show. Thanks for taking us through all the different options. I wasn't aware that there were so many different options for funding. I appreciate all the info that you're able to share with us today. Bruce: I certainly appreciate you're allowing me to come on your show. It's been a pleasure. I look forward to chatting with you guys. We'll get you taken care of. We'll get you the funding so that you can take your business to the next level and protected as well at the same time. Jason: Fantastic. One thing I just thought off. A lot of our listeners run property management companies. They're all connected to investors. Do you have a sort of program or a relationship that you can make with these entrepreneurs that are working and dealing with lots of investors trying to get them into multiple properties and new properties? Bruce: Absolutely. Not only that, we need to talk because we have an affiliate program. Give me a call, let's have that discussion. That's a whole other discussion and another income stream, potentially, for you. I'm glad you mentioned that, Jason. That was a great heads up. Jason: Perfect. Bruce, it's great to connect and I will let you go. Bruce: Thank you so much for the opportunity again. Have a great day, have a great weekend. Jason: If you're a property management entrepreneur, who wants to grow your business, who wants to add doors, you're looking, you're feeling a little bit stuck, you're dealing with some of the typical challenges, you're trying to do SEO, pay-per-click, content marketing, and social media marketing, you're just not getting the ROI, you're not adding the doors you're wanting to. There might be something different. There might be some things that you're missing. You might have some leaks in your business that you can't see. Reach out to DoorGrow. We'll help you shore those leaks up. We'll help you get on a trajectory of growth. I will be honored to be able to coach you through that stuff. We can certainly help you redesign your website.  If you need to go and test your shiny new website or your old website, go to doorgrow.com/quiz. See if it's got some leaks there. You could be losing tens or hundreds of thousand dollars in future ROI every month depending on how many leads or deals you are missing out on because your website isn’t upgraded. I want you to have an A+. Talk to DoorGrow and let's see if we can help you get that taken care of. Until next time, everybody. To our mutual growth. Bye everyone. You just listened to the DoorGrow Show. We are building a community of the savviest property management entrepreneurs on the planet, in the DoorGrow Club. Join your fellow DoorGrow hackers at doorgrowclub.com. Listen, everyone is doing the same stuff. SEO, PPC, pay-per-lead, content, social, direct mail, and they still struggle to grow. At DoorGrow, we solve your biggest challenge getting deals and growing your business. Find out more at doorgrow.com. Find any show notes or links from today’s episode on our blog at doorgrow.com. To get notified of future events and news, subscribe to our newsletter at doorgrow.com/subscribe. Until next time, take what you learn and start DoorGrow hacking your business and your life.

Shalamar started life as a “manufactured” group. Dick Griffey was the talent co-ordinator for Soul Train when he decided to set up his own record label – SOLAR. SOLAR is an acronym for Sounds Of Los Angeles records. Dick took session musicians and created a hit record – called Uptown Festival - which was credited to a faceless artist “Shalamar” in 1977. When the record became a hit he realised that there was a demand for an actual group so he set about creating one with soul train dancers Jeffrey Daniel and Jody Watley together with singer Gary Mumford, the latter of whom quickly left the group to pursue other interests. Jeffrey Daniel had met Howard Hewett at the LA nightclub “Maverick Flat” a few years earlier and had already asked him to take up lead vocals after Mumford’s departure. At that time, Hewett was committed to another contract to tour Europe with a covers band. When Brown left, Daniel asked Hewett to come on board again and this time he agreed. The rest is history. Hewett’s first record The Second Time Around was a million seller. As well as being number one on the US R&B chart it went on to reach number eight in the main Billboard pop chart indicating Shalamar’s intention to cross over with an edgy sound incorporating funk, disco, R&B and pop. The trio consisting of Howard Hewett as lead vocalist together with Jeffrey Daniel and Jody Watley became known as the “classic” line up of the group. From late 1979 to mid 1983 they racked up more than a dozen hits all over the world including North America, Europe, Africa and Japan. In the UK, Shalamar are also remembered for Jeffrey Daniel’s famous appearances on Top of the Pops where he introduced body popping and moonwalking to UK audiences. Daniel is also an award-winning choreographer well known for teaching the moonwalk to Michael Jackson as well as co-choreographing some of Michael's videos and for being his dance mentor. At the height of their fame in 1983, Jody Watley and Daniel left Shalamar leaving Hewett to continue the group with new members and further hits resulting in a personal grammy for Hewett. In 1999, Howard Hewett and Jeffrey Daniel reformed the group and began touring again. For a number of years they left the third slot empty as they continued to invite Jody Watley back into the group. When they were happy that they had tried their best to encourage Watley to re-join, they felt that they should look for another female vocalist. The natural choice of replacement was Carolyn Griffey, daughter of founder Dick Griffey. She grew up a pre-teenager spending much time in the offices and studios of Solar Records in the presence of the original Shalamar and their label bandmates including The Whispers, Midnight Star and her mother Carrie Lucas, herself an accomplished R&B artist. At the age of 18 Carolyn had a record deal with another group Absolute who had two songs featured on the soundtrack of the film Lambada.   So for all intents and purposes we focus here on the years 82 and pre and no later than 89. The sweet spot for Shalamar is noted here in the early to mid 80's.   Their first hit was "Uptown Festival" (1977), released on Soul Train Records. Which was an interpolation of the songs in a disco mix all one song. Combined. Some of the first mixes.. this would be a singer of a mix tape in modern times ("Going to a Go-Go" / "I Can't Help Myself (Sugar Pie Honey Bunch)" / "Uptight (Everything's Alright)" / "Stop! In the Name of Love" / "It's the Same Old Song" / "The Tears of a Clown" / "Love Is Like an Itching in My Heart" / "This Old Heart of Mine (Is Weak for You)" / "Baby Love" / "He Was Really Saying Somethin'")   (Out of uptown festival) Take it to the bank intro Theirs a great set of session players and singers. Almost like the Stars on Series of the time they had done for Elvis and the Beatles they were like these disco medleys.. Maybe these are running in tandem together. But that song there was a disco masterminded by dick Griffey... In time... we are up to the Disco Gardens release from Shalamar which is the second album by Shalamar, released in 1978 on the SOLAR label. It features the line-up of Gerald Brown, Jeffrey Daniels and Jody Watley, and was the only Shalamar album on which Gerald Brown appeared. Disco Gardens was less successful than Shalamar's debut Uptown Festival, peaking at #52 on the R&B chart and #171 on the Billboard chart. It contains early indications of what was to become the distinctive "SOLAR sound", most notably on the single release "Take That to the Bank" which was a UK Top 20 hit in early 1979. Here it is now on the Old School rewind podcast (Second time around) This is Shalamar on the Old School rewind, we're up to Big Fun, the third album from the group Shalamar, Big Fun released in 79 on SOLAR , it was produced by Leon Sylvers III and is the first album to feature what is considered the 'classic' Shalamar line-up (Jeffrey Daniels, Howard Hewett and Jody Watley), with Hewett having replaced Gerald Brown. Big Fun has been certified Gold in the United States for sales of over 500,000. It peaked at #4 on the R&B chart and #23 on the Billboard chart (Shalamar's highest-placing album on this chart). In the UK it reached #45 The biggest hit as of now and from BIG FUN is "The Second Time Around". "The Second Time Around" was a monster and even the focus of a radio station promotion In 1980, the band made a promotion of "The Second Time Around" for the radio station KJR in Seattle, called "The Sonics Came to Play," dedicated to the Seattle SuperSonics who had won the NBA Championship the previous year. (Clip?) Play song Second time around (Out of second time around) Here's maybe my favorite from Shalamar on this weeks podcast title make that move... Play make that move Out of make that move Thank you for listening sharing subscribing to the old school rewind I am Aaron from the 35 acres and a microphone podcast farm. We've got the bright light from Shalamars music shining upon us... up next on my podcast that tributes old school dance music and hip hop its relation to rhythm radio and more.. is "This Is for the Lover in You" this is a song written by Howard Hewett,from shalamar, and songwriter Dana Meyers. The track was originally recorded by Shalamar and appeared on their 1980 Platinum album, Three for Love. The song was the third single released it peaked at No. 17 on the U.S. R&B chart in 1981. This is for the lover in you was later remade by Babyface from the album The Day featuring LL Cool J and the former members of Shalamar: Howard Hewett, Jody Watley, and Jeffrey Daniel. The Babyface version was a successful hit, reaching #6 on the U.S. Hot 100 chart, #2 on the U.S. R&B chart, and #12 on the UK Singles Chart. The song was considered to be atypical for Babyface when it was released. (Play for the lover in you) (Out of lover in you,) "I Can Make You Feel Good" is a 1982 song by American R&B group Shalamar from their Platinum album Friends. It reached No. 7 in the UK making it their first top ten hit, Play I can make you feel good Out of I can make you feel good The westside connickyy nection to the shalamar band and the entire artist roster form Dick Griffeys label solar like midnight star and more... was the sound. Dick had the ear. Howard hewett is an incredible voice and. The vibe of the track is in the proverbial pocket her on night to remember from the old school rewind.. Play a night to remember   Out of night to remember Into dead giveaway The Look is the seventh album by American R&B group Shalamar, released in 1983 on the SOLAR label. It is the last Shalamar album to feature the line-up of Jeffrey Daniels, Howard Hewett and Jody Watley, as both Daniels and Watley would leave the group shortly before its release The Look peaked at No. 13 on the R&B chart and No. 79 on the Billboard pop chart. Like Shalamar's previous album, Friends, it was more successful in the United Kingdom, where it reached No. 7. The Look was certified Gold in the UK. The Time guitarist Jesse Johnson plays rhythm guitar on "Dead Giveaway", uncredited. It brought us the song dead giveaway from shalamar on the old school rewind Out of dead giveaway That's dead giveaway as we focus on the true school old school of dance and hip hop. Playing tribute to Shalamar and the genius of Dick Griffey and his manufactured group. Howard really delivers on the single "Dancing in the Sheets" a song written by Bill Wolfer and Dean Pitchford featured on the chart-topping soundtrack album of the 1984 motion picture Footloose and was also the first single from their album Heartbreak, featuring the new line-up of Howard Hewett, Delisa Davis and Micki Free. The synth melody on the song is similar in structure to Prince's "1999". A music video was made featuring the new line-up and did not feature any footage from the film. "Dancing in the Sheets" was a top 20 hit on the Billboard charts, peaking at No. 17 on the Hot 100 and reaching No. 18 on the Hot Black singles chart. On the UK Singles Chart, the song climbed to No. 41. That'll do it for this weeks old school rewind podcast. Thanks from the 35 acres and a microphone podcast farm.. Next week the whispers as we pay tribute to the best area of music ever.. Old School .

Question: What supplements would you recommend for a ketogenic diet? Any concerns with carbs being that low?    If someone's on a keto diet and they have 80 grams total carbs, the first question I have is where are the carbs coming from?    That's really going to determine whether the person needs supplements. So, on a keto diet in general and protein, too? If you're eating a lot of fat instead of protein, then you're going to need supplements of the things found in protein foods. If your carbs are all coming from honey, then you're going to need things that are found in vegetables.   ==>You just can't tailor nutrient needs based on carb total data alone.    The biggest things would be make sure you're getting a gram of protein per pound of body weight if your ketones and goals can handle that load of protein. That'll protect you from a lot of nutrient deficiencies right there. Try to cook your proteins in ways that recapture the juices. That will help conserve the electrolytes.    You also probably want salt and either a lot of low-net carb vegetables, or you're probably going to need more potassium in your diet. Those are the big things that I'd look at.   This Q&A can also be found as part of a much longer episode, here:https://chrismasterjohnphd.com/podcast/2019/02/09/ask-anything-nutrition-feb-1-2019/    If you would like to be part of the next live Ask Me Anything About Nutrition, sign up for the CMJ Masterpass, which includes access to these live Zoom sessions, premium features on all my content, and hundreds of dollars of exclusive discounts. You can sign up with a 10% lifetime discount here: https://chrismasterjohnphd.com/q&a

It's the 100th episode of New Player Has Joined! Take a trip down Memory Lane with Keith and Jesse. And then make a left on Reminisce Avenue. That'll bring you to Recollection Drive. Stay on that until you see the Jiffy Lube. This episode is at the Jiffy Lube. Anyway, 100th episode! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Week 5 fantasy football lineups are foremost on your mind, and we'll talk start/sit for upcoming fantasy tilts by diving into some of the more interesting issues in our Week 5 ranks. That'll include a conversation about what to do with Melvin Gordon, Phillip Dorsett, Ronald Jones, Andy Dalton, the Chiefs WRs and a lot more. Plus: the state of tight ends, and the state of NFL broadcasting. Guest: Heath Cummings of CBS Fantasy.   NOTES: Sponsor - TryFirstLeaf.com/harris to get six bottles of wine for $29.95 and a great wine club that will expand your taste horizons Sponsor - www.GetQuip.com/harris for the Tesla of toothbrushes, and your first refill pack (brush heads, toothpaste, etc.) free Sponsor - www.BetDSI.com for a great sportsbook…frequent players use promo code HARRIS100 for 100% deposit matching up to $500; less frequent players use HARRIS5 for 5% matching to try it out Follow Heath Cummings - @heathcummingssr Follow our show - @HarrisFootball Become a patron - www.patreon.com/harrisfootball Become a Person of the Book - https://www.amazon.com/Tulsa-Christopher-Harris/dp/0692170138 Watch the YouTube channel - www.youtube.com/harrisfootball Harris Football Yacht Club Dictionary - http://the-harris-football-yacht-dictionary.wikia.com/wiki/Dictionary Week 5 DraftKings Contest - https://www.draftkings.com/draft/contest/77508909   Week 5 Ranks Discussed Today: Melvin Gordon / Austin Ekeler Julian Edelman / Josh Gordon / Phillip Dorsett Ronald Jones / Peyton Barber Many, Many Tight Ends Andy Dalton David Johnson Marlon Mack / Jordan Wilkins / Nyheim Hines Sammy Watkins / DeMarcus Robinson / Mecole Hardman Golden Tate

Brandi is joined but ex co-host and Producer William Sterling to talk about a new instagram web series he is working on, @SONDER.LA. PLUS Brandi talks about her Tamra rant on the latest episode of Drinking and Tweeting! I guess they are supposed to meet in OC next. That'll be interesting :/ Follow @sonder.la on instagram! Subscribe to Brandi's YouTube Channel for some incredible stuff ! www.youtube.com/BrandiGlanvilleOfficial Keep up to date with Brandi on Instagram. See what Ryan is up to on social @strawhutmedia Listen to all of Brandi's shows on strawhutmedia.com New shows are popping up all the time. Follow Straw Hut on instagram for the latest news!

Things discussed: Buying: Jalen Mayfield. Not buying: nice things said about the secondary. Craig: coaches are oddly upbeat. Pressuring Sam to talk about Runyan, he says if you've got a guy you feel confident in you can sit a veteran with a ding, with Steuber out you just go ahead and play him. Sam: Buying Brad Hawkins's coverage ability because the players are saying it. Specifically he's saying it's an improvement from Kinnel in coverage. That'll be good because the more you can play man behind the LBs, the more you can send them. Lavert won't get targeted, we'll see how Gray goes. The Mayfield/Stueber battle when it was frozen in time. MTSU: 260-pound defensive tackles, 6'2" offensive tackles, no QB, Scott Shafer and his blitzball LBs.  Brian can't imagine a world without a fullback. Please give us a 3rd and 1 with the Bens in the backfield. RPOs and you. No such thing as a decoy route in this offense. Around the country: Herbert.