Podcasts about algonquin park

On this episode, my guest is Stephen Jenkinson, culture activist and ceremonialist advocating a handmade life and eloquence. He is an author, a storyteller, a musician, sculptor and off-grid organic farmer. Stephen is the founder/ principal instructor of the Orphan Wisdom School in Canada, co-founded with his wife Nathalie Roy in 2010. Also a sought-after workshop leader, articulating matters of the heart, human suffering, confusions through ceremony.He is the author of several influential books, including Money and the Soul's Desires, Die Wise: A Manifesto for Sanity and Soul (2015), Come of Age: The Case for Elderhood in a Time of Trouble (2018), A Generation's Worth: Spirit Work While the Crisis Reigns (2021), and Reckoning (2022), co-written with Kimberly Ann Johnson. His most recent book, Matrimony: Ritual, Culture, and the Heart's Work, was released in August 2025. He is also involved in the musical project Nights of Grief & Mystery with singer-songwriter Gregory Hoskins, which has toured across North America, Europe, Australia, and New Zealand.Show Notes:* The Bone House of the Orphan Wisdom Enterprise* Matrimony: Ritual, Culture and the Heart's Work* The Wedding Industry* Romantic Sameness and Psychic Withering* The Two Tribes* The Roots of Hospitality* The Pompous Ending of Hospitality* Debt, And the Estrangement of the Stranger* More Than Human Hospitality* The Alchemy of the Orphan Wisdom SchoolHomework:Matrimony: Ritual, Culture, and the Heart's Work | PurchaseOrphan WisdomThe Scriptorium: Echoes of an Orphan WisdomTranscription:Chris: This is an interview that I've been wondering about for a long time in part, because Stephen was the first person I ever interviewed for the End of Tourism Podcast. In Oaxaca, Mexico, where I live Stephen and Natalie were visiting and were incredibly, incredibly generous. Stephen, in offering his voice as a way to raise up my questions to a level that deserve to be contended with.We spoke for about two and a half hours, if I remember correctly. And there was a lot in what you spoke to towards the second half of the interview that I think we're the first kind of iterations of the Matrimony book.We spoke a little bit about the stranger and trade, and it was kind of startling as someone trying to offer their first interview and suddenly hearing something [00:01:00] that I'd never heard before from Stephen. Right. And so it was quite impressive. And I'm grateful to be here now with y'all and to get to wonder about this a little more deeply with you Stephen.Stephen: Mm-hmm. Hmm.Chris: This is also a special occasion for the fact that for the first time in the history of the podcast, we have a live audience among us today. Strange doings. Some scholars and some stewards and caretakers of the Orphan Wisdom enterprise. So, thank you all as well for coming tonight and being willing to listen and put your ears to this.And so to begin, Stephen, I'm wondering if you'd be willing to let those who will be listening to this recording later on know where we're gathered in tonight?Stephen: Well, we're in... what's the name of this township?Nathalie: North Algona.Stephen: North Algona township on the borders, an eastern gate [00:02:00] of Algonquin Park. Strangely named place, given the fact that they were the first casualties of the park being established. And we're in a place that never should have been cleared - my farm. It should never have been cleared of the talls, the white pines that were here, but the admiralty was in need back in the day. And that's what happened there. And we're in a place that the Irish immigrants who came here after the famine called "Tramore," which more or less means "good-frigging luck farming."It doesn't technically mean that, but it absolutely means that. It actually means "sandy shore," which about covers the joint, and it's the only thing that covers the joint - would be sand. You have to import clay. Now, that's a joke in many farming places in the world, but if we wanted any clay, we'd have to bring it in and pay for the privilege.And the farm has been in [00:03:00] my, my responsibility for about 25 years now, pretty close to that. And the sheep, or those of them left because the coyotes have been around for the first time in their casualty-making way... They're just out here, I'm facing the field where they're milling around.And it's the very, very beginnings of the long cooling into cold, into frigid, which is our lot in this northern part of the hemisphere, even though it's still August, but it's clear that things have changed. And then, we're on a top of a little hill, which was the first place that I think that we may have convened a School here.It was a tipi, which is really worked very well considering we didn't live here, so we could put it up and put it down in the same weekend. [00:04:00] And right on this very hill, we were, in the early days, and we've replaced that tipi with another kind of wooden structure. A lot more wood in this one.This has been known as "The Teaching Hall" or "The Great Hall," or "The Hall" or "The Money Pit, as it was known for a little while, but it actually worked out pretty well. And it was I mean, people who've come from Scandinavia are knocked out by the kind of old-style, old-world visitation that the place seems to be to them.And I'd never really been before I had the idea what this should look like, but I just went from a kind of ancestral memory that was knocking about, which is a little different than your preferences, you know. You have different kinds of preferences you pass through stylistically through your life, but the ones that lay claim to you are the ones that are not interested in your [00:05:00] preferences. They're interested in your kind of inheritance and your lineage.So I'm more or less from the northern climes of Northern Europe, and so the place looks that way and I was lucky enough to still have my carving tools from the old days. And I've carved most of the beams and most of the posts that keep the place upright with a sort of sequence of beasts and dragons and ne'er-do-wells and very, very few humans, I think two, maybe, in the whole joint. Something like that. And then, mostly what festoons a deeply running human life is depicted here. And there's all kinds of stories, which I've never really sat down and spoken to at great length with anybody, but they're here.And I do deeply favour the idea that one day [00:06:00] somebody will stumble into this field, and I suppose, upon the remains of where we sit right now, and wonder "What the hell got into somebody?" That they made this mountain of timber moldering away, and that for a while what must have been, and when they finally find the footprint of, you know, its original dimensions and sort of do the wild math and what must have been going on in this sandy field, a million miles in away from its home.And wherever I am at that time, I'll be wondering the same thing.Audience: Hmm.Stephen: "What went on there?" Even though I was here for almost all of it. So, this was the home of the Orphan Wisdom School for more than a decade and still is the home of the Orphan Wisdom School, even if it's in advance, or in retreat [00:07:00] or in its doldrums. We'll see.And many things besides, we've had weddings in here, which is wherein I discovered "old-order matrimony," as I've come to call it, was having its way with me in the same way that the design of the place did. And it's also a grainery for our storage of corn. Keep it up off the ground and out of the hands of the varmints, you know, for a while.Well that's the beginning.Chris: Hmm. Hmm. Thank you Stephen.Stephen: Mm-hmm.Chris: You were mentioning the tipi where the school began. I remember sleeping in there the first time I came here. Never would I have thought for a million years that I'd be sitting here with you.Stephen: It's wild, isn't it?Chris: 12 years later.?: Yeah.Chris: And so next, I'd like to do my best in part over the course of the next perhaps hour or two to congratulate you on the release of [00:08:00] your new book, Matrimony: Ritual, Culture, and the Heart's Work.Stephen: Thank you.Chris: Mm-hmm. I'm grateful to say like many others that I've received a copy and have lent my eyes to your good words, and what is really an incredible achievement.For those who haven't had a chance to lay their eyes on it just yet, I'm wondering if you could let us in on why you wrote a book about matrimony in our time and where it stands a week out from its publication.Stephen: Well, maybe the answer begins with the question, "why did you write a book, having done so before?" And you would imagine that the stuff that goes into writing a book, you'd think that the author has hopes for some kind of redemptive, redeeming outcome, some kind of superlative that drops out the back end of the enterprise.And you know, this is [00:09:00] the seventh I've written. And I would have to say that's not really how it goes, and you don't really know what becomes of what you've written, even with the kind people who do respond, and the odd non-monetary prize that comes your way, which Die Wise gamed that.But I suppose, I wrote, at all partly to see what was there. You know, I had done these weddings and I was a little bit loathe to let go, to let the weddings turn entirely into something historical, something that was past, even though I probably sensed pretty clearly that I was at the end of my willingness to subject myself to the slings and arrows that came along with the enterprise, but it's a sweet sorrow, or there's a [00:10:00] wonder that goes along with the tangle of it all. And so, I wrote to find out what happened, as strange as that might sound to you. You can say, "well, you were there, you kind of knew what happened." But yes, I was witness to the thing, but there's the act of writing a book gives you the opportunity to sort of wonder in three-dimensions and well, the other thing I should say is I was naive and figured that the outfit who had published the, more or less prior two books to this one, would kind of inevitably be drawn to the fact that same guy. Basically, same voice, new articulation. And I was dumbfounded to find out that they weren't. And so, it's sort of smarted, you know?And I think what I did was I just set the whole [00:11:00] enterprise aside, partly to contend with the the depths of the disappointment in that regard, and also not wanting to get into the terrible fray of having to parse or paraphrase the book in some kind of elevator pitch-style to see if anybody else wanted to look at it. You know, such as my touchy sense of nobility sometimes, you know, that I just rather not be involved in the snarl of the marketplace any longer.So, I withdrew and I just set it aside but it wasn't that content to be set, set aside. And you know, to the book's credit, it bothered me every once in a while. It wasn't a book at the point where I was actually trying to engineer it, you know, and, and give it some kind of structure. I had piles of paper on the floor representing the allegation of chapters, trying to figure out what the relationship was [00:12:00] between any of these things.What conceivably should come before what. What the names of any of these things might be. Did they have an identity? Was I just imposing it? And all of that stuff I was going through at the same time as I was contending with a kind of reversal in fortune, personally. And so in part, it was a bit of a life raft to give me something to work on that I wouldn't have to research or dig around in the backyard for it and give me some sort of self-administered occupation for a while.Finally, I think there's a parallel with the Die Wise book, in that when it came to Die Wise, I came up with what I came up with largely because, in their absolute darkest, most unpromising hours, an awful lot of dying people, all of whom are dead now, [00:13:00] let me in on some sort of breach in the, the house of their lives.And I did feel that I had some obligation to them long-term, and that part of that obligation turned into writing Die Wise and touring and talking about that stuff for years and years, and making a real fuss as if I'd met them all, as if what happened is really true. Not just factually accurate, but deeply, abidingly, mandatorily true.So, although it may be the situation doesn't sound as extreme, but the truth is, when a number of younger - than me - people came to me and asked me to do their weddings, I, over the kind of medium-term thereafter, felt a not dissimilar obligation that the events that ensued from all of that not [00:14:00] be entrusted entirely to those relatively few people who attended. You know, you can call them "an audience," although I hope I changed that. Or you could call them "witnesses," which I hope I made them that.And see to it that there could be, not the authorized or official version of what happened, but to the view from here, so to speak, which is, as I sit where I am in the hall right now, I can look at the spot where I conducted much of this when I wasn't sacheting up and down the middle aisle where the trestle tables now are.And I wanted to give a kind of concerted voice to that enterprise. And I say "concerted voice" to give you a feel for the fact that I don't think this is a really an artifact. It's not a record. It's a exhortation that employs the things that happened to suggest that even though it is the way it is [00:15:00] ritually, impoverished as it is in our time and place, it has been otherwise within recoverable time and history. It has.And if that's true, and it is, then it seems to me at least is true that it could be otherwise again. And so, I made a fuss and I made a case based on that conviction.There's probably other reasons I can't think of right now. Oh, being not 25 anymore, and not having that many more books in me, the kind of wear and tear on your psyche of imposing order on the ramble, which is your recollection, which has only so many visitations available in it. Right? You can only do that so many times, I think. And I'm not a born writing person, you know, I come to it maniacally when I [00:16:00] do, and then when it's done, I don't linger over it so much.So then, when it's time to talk about it, I actually have to have a look, because the act of writing it is not the act of reading it. The act of writing is a huge delivery and deliverance at the same time. It's a huge gestation. And you can't do that to yourself, you know, over and over again, but you can take some chances, and look the thing in the eye. So, and I think some people who are there, they're kind of well-intended amongst them, will recognize themselves in the details of the book, beyond "this is what happened and so on." You know, they'll recognize themselves in the advocacy that's there, and the exhortations that are there, and the [00:17:00] case-making that I made and, and probably the praying because there's a good degree of prayerfulness in there, too.That's why.Chris: Thank you. bless this new one in the world. And what's the sense for you?Stephen: Oh, yes.Chris: It being a one-week old newborn. How's that landing in your days?Stephen: Well, it's still damp, you know. It's still squeaky, squeaky and damp. It's walking around like a newborn primate, you know, kind of swaying in the breeze and listening to port or to starboard according to whatever's going on.I don't know that it's so very self-conscious in the best sense of that term, yet. Even though I recorded the audio version, I don't think [00:18:00] it's my voice is found every nook and cranny at this point, yet. So, it's kind of new. It's not "news," but it is new to me, you know, and it's very early in terms of anybody responding to it.I mean, nobody around me has really taken me aside and say, "look, now I want to tell you about this book you wrote." It hasn't happened, and we'll see if it does, but I've done a few events on the other side of the ocean and hear so far, very few, maybe handful of interviews. And those are wonderful opportunities to hear something of what you came up with mismanaged by others, you know, misapprehend, you could say by others.No problem. I mean, it's absolutely no problem. And if you don't want that to happen, don't talk, don't write anything down. So, I don't mind a bit, you know, and the chances are very good that it'll turn into things I didn't have in mind [00:19:00] as people take it up, and regard their own weddings and marriages and plans and schemes and fears and, you know, family mishigas and all the rest of it through this particular lens, you know. They may pick up a pen or a computer (it's an odd expression, "pick up a computer"), and be in touch with me and let me know. "Yeah, that was, we tried it" or whatever they're going to do, because, I mean, maybe Die Wise provided a bit of an inkling of how one might be able to proceed otherwise in their dying time or in their families or their loved ones dying time.This is the book that most readily lends itself to people translating into something they could actually do, without a huge kind of psychic revolution or revolt stirring in them, at least not initially. This is as close as I come, probably, to writing a sequence of things [00:20:00] that could be considered "add-ons" to what people are already thinking about, that I don't force everybody else outta the house in order to make room for the ideas that are in the book. That may happen, anyway, but it wasn't really the intent. The intent was to say, you know, we are in those days when we're insanely preoccupied with the notion of a special event. We are on the receiving end of a considerable number of shards showing up without any notion really about what these shards remember or are memories of. And that's the principle contention I think that runs down the spine of the book, is that when we undertake matrimony, however indelicately, however by rote, you know, however mindlessly we may do it, [00:21:00] inadvertently, we call upon those shards nonetheless.And they're pretty unspectacular if you don't think about them very deeply, like the rice or confetti, like the aisle, like the procession up the aisle, like the giving away of someone, like the seating arrangement, like the spectacle seating arrangement rather than the ritual seating arrangement.And I mean, there's a fistful of them. And they're around and scholars aside maybe, nobody knows why they do them. Everybody just knows, "this is what a wedding is," but nobody knows why. And because nobody knows why, nobody really seems to know what a wedding is for, although they do proceed like they would know a wedding if they saw one. So, I make this a question to be really wondered about, and the shards are a way in. They're the kind of [00:22:00] breadcrumb trail through the forest. They're the little bits of broken something, which if you begin to handle just three or four of them, and kind of fit them together, and find something of the original shape and inflection of the original vessel, kind of enunciates, begins to murmur in your hands, and from it you can begin to infer some three-dimensionality to the original shape. And from the sense of the shape, you get a set sense of contour, and from the sense of contour, you get a sense of scale or size. And from that you get a sense of purpose, or function, or design. And from that you get a sense of some kind of serious magisterial insight into some of the fundament of human being that was manifest in the "old-order matrimony," [00:23:00] as I came to call it.So, who wouldn't wanna read that book?Chris: Mm-hmm.Thank you. Mm-hmm. Thank you, Stephen. Yeah. It reminds me, just before coming up here, maybe two weeks ago, I was in attending a wedding. And there was a host or mc, and initially just given what I was hearing over the microphone, it was hard to tell if he was hired or family or friends. And it turned out he was, in fact, a friend of the groom. And throughout the night he proceeded to take up that role as a kind of comedian.Audience: Mm-hmm.Chris: This was the idea, I guess. Mm-hmm. And he was buzzing and mumbling and swearing into the microphone, [00:24:00] and then finally minimizing the only remnant of traditional culture that showed up in the wedding. And his thing was, okay, so when can we get to the part where it's boom, boom, boom, right. And shot, shot, shot, whatever.Stephen: Right.Chris: There was so much that came up in my memories in part because I worked about a decade in Toronto in the wedding industry.Mm-hmm. Hospitality industry. Maybe a contradiction in terms, there. And there was one moment that really kind of summed it up. I kept coming back to this reading the book because it was everything that you wrote seemed to not only antithetical to this moment, but also an antidote.Anyways, it was in North Toronto and the [00:25:00] owner of the venue - it was a kind of movie theatre turned event venue - and there was a couple who was eventually going to get married there. They came in to do their tasting menu to see what they wanted to put on the menu for the dinner, for their wedding.And the owner was kind of this mafioso type. And he comes in and he sees them and he walks over and he says, "so, you're gonna get married at my wedding factory."Audience: Mm-hmm.Chris: In all sincerity.Stephen: Mm-hmm.Chris: Right.Without skipping a beat. Could you imagine?Stephen: Yeah.I could. I sure could.Chris: Yeah. Yeah.Stephen: I mean, don't forget, if these people weren't doing what the people wanted, they'd be outta business.Audience: Mm-hmm.Stephen: No, that's the thing. This is aiding and abetting. This is sleeping with the enemy, stylistically-speaking. [00:26:00] The fact that people "settle" (that's the term I would use for it), settle for this, the idea being that this somehow constitutes the most honest and authentic through line available to us is just jaw dropping. When you consider what allegedly this thing is supposed to be for. I mean, maybe we'll get into this, but I'll just leave this as a question for now. What is that moment allegedly doing?Not, what are the people in it allegedly doing? The moment itself, what is it? How is it different from us sitting here now talking about it? And how is it different from the gory frigging jet-fuelled aftermath of excess. And how's it different from the cursing alleged master of ceremonies? How can you [00:27:00] tell none of those things belong to this thing?And why do you have such a hard time imagining what doesAudience: Hmm mmChris: Well that leads me to my next question.Stephen: Ah, you're welcome.Chris: So, I've pulled a number of quotes from the book to read from over the course of the interview. And this one for anyone who's listening is on page 150. And you write Stephen,"Spiritually-speaking, most of the weddings in our corner of the world are endogamous affairs, inward-looking. What is, to me, most unnerving is that they can be spiritually-incestuous. The withering of psychic difference between people is the program of globalization. It is in the architecture of most things partaking of the internet, and it is in the homogeneity of our matrimony. [00:28:00] It is this very incestuous that matrimony was once crafted and entered into to avoid and subvert. Now, it grinds upon our differences until they are details.And so, this paragraph reminded me of a time in my youth when I seemed to be meeting couples who very eerily looked like each other. No blood or extended kin relation whatsoever, and yet they had very similar faces. And so as I get older, this kind of face fidelity aside, I continue to notice that people looking for companionship tend to base their search on similitude, on shared interests, customs, experiences, shared anything and everything. This, specifically, in opposition to those on the other side of the aisle or spectrum, to difference or divergence. And so, opposites don't attract anymore. I'm curious what you think this psychic [00:29:00] withering does to an achieve understanding of matrimony.Stephen: Well, I mean, let's wonder what it does to us, generally, first before we get to matrimony, let's say. It demonizes. Maybe that's too strong, but it certainly reconstitutes difference as some kind of affliction, some kind of not quite good enough, some kind of something that has to be overcome or overwhelmed on the road to, to what? On the road to sameness? So, if that's the goal, then are all of the differences between us, aberrations of some kind, if that's the goal? If that's the goal, are all the [00:30:00] differences between us, not God-given, but humanly misconstrued or worse? Humanly wrought? Do the differences between us conceivably then belong at all? Or is the principle object of the entire endeavor to marry yourself, trying to put up with the vague differences that the other person represents to you?I mean, I not very jokingly said years ago, that I coined a phrase that went something like "the compromise of infinity, which is other people." What does that mean? "The compromise of infinity, which is other people." Not to mention it's a pretty nice T-shirt. But what I meant by the [00:31:00] phrase is this: when you demonize difference in this fashion or when you go the other direction and lionize sameness, then one of the things that happens is that compromise becomes demonized, too. Compromise, by definition, is something you never should have done, right? Compromise is how much you surrender of yourself in order to get by. That's what all these things become. And before you know it, you're just beaten about the head and shoulders about "codependence" and you know, not being "true to yourself" as if being true to yourself is some kind of magic.I mean, the notion that "yourself is the best part of you" is just hilarious. I mean, when you think about it, like who's running amuck if yourself is what you're supposed to be? I ask you. Like, who's [00:32:00] doing the harm? Who's going mental if the self is such a good idea? So, of course, I'm maintaining here that I'm not persuaded that there is such a thing.I think it's a momentary lapse in judgment to have a self and to stick to it. That's the point I'm really making to kind of reify it until it turns ossified and dusty and bizarrely adamant like that estranged relative that lives in the basement of your house. Bizarrely, foreignly adamant, right? Like the house guest who just won't f**k off kind of thing.Okay, so "to thine own self be true," is it? Well, try being true to somebody else's self for ten minutes. Try that. [00:33:00] That's good at exercise for matrimony - being true to somebody else's self. You'll discover that their selves are not made in heaven, either. Either. I underscore it - either. I've completely lost track of the question you asked me.Chris: What are the consequences of the sameness on this anti-cultural sameness, and the program of it for an achieved understanding of matrimony.Stephen: Thank you. Well, I will fess up right now. I do so in the book. That's a terrible phrase. I swear I'd never say such a thing. "In my book... I say the following," but in this case, it's true. I did say this. I realized during the writing of it that I had made a tremendous tactical error in the convening of the event as I did it over the years, [00:34:00] and this is what it came to.I was very persuaded at the time of the story that appears in the chapter called "Salt and Indigo" in the book. I was very, very persuaded. I mean, listen, I made up the story (for what it's worth), okay, but I didn't make it up out of nothing. I made it up out of a kind of tribal memory that wouldn't quite let go.And in it, I was basically saying, here's these two tribes known principally for what they trade in and what they love most emphatically. They turn out to be the same thing. And I describe a circumstance in which they exchange things in a trade scenario, not a commerce scenario. And I'm using the chapter basically to make the case that matrimony's architecture derives in large measure from the sacraments of trade as manifest in that story. [00:35:00] Okay. And this is gonna sound obvious, but the fundamental requirement of the whole conceit that I came up with is that there are two tribes. Well, I thought to myself, "of course, there's always two tribes" at the time. And the two tribe-ness is reflected in when you come to the wedding site, you're typically asked (I hope you're still asked) " Are you family or friend of the groom or friend of the bride?" And you're seated "accordingly," right? That's the nominal, vestigial shard of this old tribal affiliation, that people came from over the rise, basically unknown to each other, to arrive at the kind of no man's land of matrimony, and proceeded accordingly. So, I put these things into motion in this very room and I sat people accordingly facing each other, not facing the alleged front of the room. [00:36:00] And of course, man, nobody knew where to look, because you raised your eyes and s**t. There's just humans across from you, just scads of them who you don't freaking know. And there's something about doing that to North Americas that just throws them. So, they're just looking at each other and then looking away, and looking at each other and looking away, and wondering what they're doing here and what it's for. And I'm going back and forth for three hours, orienting them as to what is is coming.Okay, so what's the miscalculation that I make? The miscalculation I made was assuming that by virtue of the seating arrangement, by virtue of me reminding them of the salt and indigo times, by virtue of the fact that they had a kind of allegiance of some sort or another to the people who are, for the moment, betrothed, that those distinctions and those affiliations together would congeal them, and constitute a [00:37:00] kind of tribal affiliation that they would intuitively be drawn towards as you would be drawn to heat on a cold winter's night.Only to discover, as I put the thing into motion that I was completely wrong about everything I just told you about. The nature of my error was this, virtually all of those people on one side of the room were fundamentally of the same tribe as the people on the other side of the room, apropos of your question, you see. They were card carrying members of the gray dominant culture of North America. Wow. The bleached, kind of amorphous, kind of rootless, ancestor-free... even regardless of whether their people came over in the last generation from the alleged old country. It doesn't really claim them.[00:38:00]There were two tribes, but I was wrong about who they were. That was one tribe. Virtually everybody sitting in the room was one tribe.So, who's the other tribe? Answer is: me and the four or five people who were in on the structural delivery of this endeavour with me. We were the other tribe.We didn't stand a chance, you see?And I didn't pick up on that, and I didn't cast it accordingly and employ that, instead. I employed the conceit that I insisted was manifest and mobilized in the thing, instead of the manifest dilemma, which is that everybody who came knew what a wedding was, and me and four or five other people were yet to know if this could be one. That was the tribal difference, if you [00:39:00] will.So, it was kind of invisible, wasn't it? Even to me at the time. Or, I say, maybe especially to me at the time. And so, things often went the way they went, which was for however much fascination and willingness to consider that there might have been in the room, there was quite a bit more either flat affect and kind of lack of real fascination, or curiosity, or sometimes downright hostility and pushback. Yeah.So, all of that comes from the fact that I didn't credit as thoroughly as I should have done, the persistence in Anglo-North America of a kind of generic sameness that turned out to be what most people came here ancestrally to become. "Starting again" is recipe for culture [00:40:00] loss of a catastrophic order. The fantasy of starting again. Right?And we've talked about that in your podcast, and you and I have talked about it privately, apropos of your own family and everybody's sitting in this room knows what I'm talking about. And when does this show up? Does it show up, oh, when you're walking down the street? Does it show up when you're on the mountaintop? Does it show up in your peak experiences? And the answer is "maybe." It probably shows up most emphatically in those times when you have a feeling that something special is supposed to be so, and all you can get from the "supposed to" is the allegation of specialness.Audience: Mm-hmm.Stephen: And then, you look around in the context of matrimony and you see a kind of febral, kind of strained, the famous bridezilla stuff, all of that stuff. [00:41:00] You saw it in the hospitality industry, no doubt. You know, the kind of mania for perfection, as if perfection constitutes culture. Right? With every detail checked off in the checkbox, that's culture. You know, as if everything goes off without a hitch and there's no guffaws. And in fact, anybody could reasonably make the case, "Where do you think culture appears when the script finally goes f*****g sideways?" That's when. And when you find out what you're capable of, ceremonially.And generally speaking, I think most people discovered that their ceremonial illiteracy bordered on the bottomless.That's when you find out. Hmm.Chris: Wow.Stephen: Yeah. And that's why people, you know, in speech time, they reach in there and get that piece of paper, and just look at it. Mm-hmm. They don't even look up, terrified that they're gonna go off script for a minute as [00:42:00] if the Gods of Matrimony are a scripted proposition.Chris: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Thank you for sharing that with us, that degree of deep reflection and humility that I'm sure comes with it.Stephen: Mea Culpa, baby. Yeah, I was, I got that one totally wrong. Mm-hmm. And I didn't know it at the time. Meanwhile, like, how much can you transgress and have the consequences of doing so like spill out across the floor like a broken thermometer's mercury and not wise up.But of course, I was as driven as anybody. I was as driven to see if I could come through with what I promised to do the year before. And keeping your promise can make you into a maniac.Audience: Hmm hmm.Chris: But I imagine that, you [00:43:00] know, you wouldn't have been able to see that even years later if you didn't say yes in the first place.Stephen: Oh, yeah. Yeah. And I wouldn't have been able to make the errors.Chris: Right.Stephen: Right. Yeah. I mean, as errors go, this is not a mortal sin. Right, right. And you could chalk it up to being a legitimate miscalculation. Well, so? All I'm saying is, it turns out I was there too, and it turns out, even though I was allegedly the circus master of the enterprise, I wasn't free and clear of the things we were all contending with, the kind of mortality and sort of cultural ricketiness that were all heirs to. That's how I translated it, as it turns out.So, PS there was a moment, [00:44:00] which I don't remember which setting it was now, but there was a moment when the "maybe we'll see if she becomes a bride" bride's mother slid up to me during the course of the proceedings, and in a kind of stage whisper more or less hissed me as follows."Is this a real wedding?"I mean, that's not a question. Not in that setting, obviously not. That is an accusation. Right. And a withering one at that. And there was a tremendous amount of throw-down involved.So, was it? I mean, what we do know is that she did not go to any of the weddings [00:45:00] that she was thinking of at the time, and go to the front of the room where the celebrant is austerely standing there with the book, or the script, or the well-intentioned, or the self-penned vows and never hissed at him or her, "is this a real wedding?"Never once did she do that. We know that.Right.And I think we know why. But she was fairly persuaded she knew what a real wedding was. And all she was really persuaded by was the poverty of the weddings that she'd attended before that one. Well, I was as informed in that respect as she was, wasn't I? I just probably hadn't gone to as many reprobate weddings as she had, so she had more to deal with than I did, even though I was in the position of the line of fire.And I didn't respond too well to the question, I have to say. At the moment, I was rather combative. But I mean, you try to do [00:46:00] what I tried to do and not have a degree of fierceness to go along with your discernment, you know, just to see if you can drag this carcass across the threshold. Anyway, that happened too.Chris: Wow. Yeah. Dominant culture of North America.Stephen: Heard of it.Chris: Yeah. Well, in Matrimony, there's quite a bit in which you write about hospitality and radical hospitality. And I wanted to move in that direction a little bit, because in terms of these kind of marketplace rituals or ceremonies that you were mentioning you know, it's something that we might wonder, I think, as you have, how did it come to be this [00:47:00] way?And so I'd like to, if I can once again, quote from matrimony in which you speak to the etymology of hospitality. And so for those interested on page 88,"the word hospitality comes from hospitaller, meaning 'one who cares for the afflicted, the infirm, the needy.' There's that thread of our misgivings about being on the receiving end of hospitality. Pull on it. For the written history of the word, at least, it has meant, 'being on the receiving end of a kind of care you'd rather not need.'"End quote.Stephen: That's so great. I mean, before you go on with the quote. It's so great to know that the word, unexamined, just kind of leaks upside, doesn't it? Hospitality, I mean, nobody goes "Hospitality, ew." [00:48:00] And then, if you just quietly do the obvious math to yourself, there's so much awkwardness around hospitality.This awkwardness must have an origin, have a home. There must be some misgiving that goes along with the giving of hospitality, mustn't there be? How else to understand where that kind of ickiness is to be found. Right? And it turns out that the etymology is giving you the beginnings of a way of figuring it out what it is that you're on the receiving end of - a kind of succor that you wish you didn't need, which is why it's the root word for "hospital."Chris: Hmm hmm. Wow.Audience: Hmm.Chris: May I repeat that sentence please? Once more."For the written history of the word, at least, it has meant, [00:49:00] 'being on the receiving end of a kind of care you'd rather not need.'"And so this last part hits home for me as I imagine it does for many.And it feels like the orthodoxy of hospitality in our time is one based not only in transaction, but in debt. And if you offer hospitality to me, then I owe you hospitality.Stephen: Right.Chris: I'm indebted to you. And we are taught, in our time, that the worst thing to be in is in debt.Stephen: Right?Chris: And so people refuse both the desire to give as well as the learning skill of receiving. And this is continuing on page 88 now."But there's mystery afoot with this word. In its old Latin form, hospice meant both 'host' and 'guest.'"Stephen: Amazing. One. Either one, This is absolutely amazing. We're fairly sure that there's a [00:50:00] acres of difference between the giver of hospitality and the receiver that the repertoire is entirely different, that the skew between them is almost insurmountable, that they're not interchangeable in any way. But the history of the word immediately says, "really?" The history of the word, without question, says that "host" and "guest" are virtually the same, sitting in different places, being different people, more or less joined at the hip. I'll say more, but you go ahead with what you were gonna do. Sure.Chris: "In it's proto Indo-European origins, hospitality and hospice is a compound word: gosh + pot. And it meant something like [00:51:00] 'stranger/guest/host + powerful Lord.'It is amazing to me that ancestrally, the old word for guest, host, and stranger were all the same word. Potent ceremonial business, this is. In those days, the server and the serve were partners in something mysterious. This could be confusing, but only if you think of guest, host, and stranger as fixed identities.If you think of them as functions, as verbs, the confusion softens and begins to clear. The word hospice in its ancient root is telling us that each of the people gathered together in hospitality is bound to the others by formal etiquette, yes, but the bond is transacted through a subtle scheme of graces.Hospitality, it tells us, is a web of longing and belonging that binds people for a time, some hithereto unknown to each other is a clutch of mutually-binding elegances, you could say. In its ancient practice, [00:52:00] hospitality was a covenant. According to that accord, however we were with each other. That was how the Gods would be with us. We learn our hospitality by being on the receiving end of Godly administration. That's what giving thanks for members. We proceed with our kin in imitation of that example and in gratitude for it."Mm-hmm.And so today, among "secular" people, with the Gods ignored, this old-time hospitality seems endangered, if not fugitive. I'm curious how you imagine that this rupture arose, the ones that separated and commercialized the radical relationships between hosts and guests, that turned them from verbs to nouns and something like strangers to marketplace functions.[00:53:00]Stephen: Well, of course this is a huge question you've asked, and I'll see if I can unhuge it a bit.Chris: Uhhuh.Stephen: Let's go right to the heart of what happened. Just no preliminaries, just right to it.So, to underscore again, the beauty of the etymology. I've told you over and over again, the words will not fail you. And this is just a shining example, isn't it? That the fraternization is a matter of ceremonial alacrity that the affiliation between host and guest, which makes them partners in something, that something is the [00:54:00] evocation of a third thing that's neither one of them. It's the thing they've lent themselves to by virtue of submitting to being either a host or a guest. One.Two. You could say that in circumstances of high culture or highly-functioning culture, one of the principle attributes of that culture is that the fundament of its understanding, is that only with the advent of the stranger in their midst that the best of them comes forward.Okay, follow that. Yeah.So, this is a little counterintuitive for those of us who don't come from such places. We imagine that the advent of strangers in the midst of the people I'm describing would be an occasion where people hide their [00:55:00] best stuff away until the stranger disappears, and upon the disappearance of the stranger, the good stuff comes out again.You know?So, I'm just remembering just now, there's a moment in the New Testament where Jesus says something about the best wine and he's coming from exactly this page that we're talking about - not the page in the book, but this understanding. He said, you know, "serve your best wine first," unlike the standard, that prevails, right?So again, what a stranger does in real culture is call upon the cultural treasure of the host's culture, and provides the opportunity for that to come forward, right? By which you can understand... Let's say for simplicity's sake, there's two kinds of hospitality. There's probably all kinds of gradations, [00:56:00] but for the purposes of responding to what you've asked, there's two.One of them is based on kinship. Okay? So, family meal. So, everybody knows whose place is whose around the table, or it doesn't matter - you sit wherever you want. Or, when we're together, we speak shorthand. That's the shorthand of familiarity and affinity, right?Everybody knows what everybody's talking about. A lot of things get half-said or less, isn't it? And there's a certain fineness, isn't it? That comes with that kind of affinity. Of course, there is, and I'm not diminishing it at all. I'm just characterizing it as being of a certain frequency or calibre or charge. And the charge is that it trades on familiarity. It requires that. There's that kind of hospitality."Oh, sit wherever you want."Remember this one?[00:57:00]"We don't stand on ceremony here.""Oh, you're one of the family now." I just got here. What, what?But, of course, you can hear in the protestations the understanding, in that circumstance, that formality is an enemy to feeling good in this moment, isn't it? It feels stiff and starched and uncalled for or worse.It feels imported from elsewhere. It doesn't feel friendly. So, I'm giving you now beginnings of a differentiation between how cultures who really function as cultures understand what it means to be hospitable and what often prevails today, trading is a kind of low-grade warfare conducted against the strangeness of the stranger.The whole purpose of treating somebody like their family is to mitigate, and finally neutralize their [00:58:00] strangeness, so that for the purposes of the few hours in front of us all, there are no strangers here. Right? Okay.Then there's another kind, and intuitively you can feel what I'm saying. You've been there, you know exactly what I mean.There's another kind of circumstance where the etiquette that prevails is almost more emphatic, more tangible to you than the familiar one. That's the one where your mother or your weird aunt or whoever she might be, brings out certain kind of stuff that doesn't come out every day. And maybe you sit in a room that you don't often sit in. And maybe what gets cooked is stuff you haven't seen in a long time. And some part of you might be thinking, "What the hell is all this about?" And the answer is: it's about that guy in the [00:59:00] corner that you don't know.And your own ancestral culture told acres of stories whose central purpose was to convey to outsiders their understanding of what hospitality was. That is fundamentally what The Iliad and The Odyssey are often returning to and returning to and returning to.They even had a word for the ending of the formal hospitality that accrued, that arose around the care and treatment of strangers. It was called pomp or pompe, from which we get the word "pompous." And you think about what the word "pompous" means today.It means "nose in the air," doesn't it? Mm-hmm. It means "thinks really highly of oneself," isn't it? And it means "useless, encumbering, kind of [01:00:00] artificial kind of going through the motions stuff with a kind of aggrandizement for fun." That's what "pompous" means. Well, the people who gave us the word didn't mean that at all. This word was the word they used to describe the particular moment of hospitality when it was time for the stranger to leave.And when it was mutually acknowledged that the time for hospitality has come to an end, and the final act of hospitality is to accompany the stranger out of the house, out of the compound, out into the street, and provision them accordingly, and wish them well, and as is oftentimes practiced around here, standing in the street and waving them long after they disappear from view.This is pompous. This is what it actually means. Pretty frigging cool when you get corrected once in a while, isn't it? [01:01:00] Yeah.So, as I said, to be simplistic about it, there's at least a couple of kinds, and one of them treasures the advent of the stranger, understanding it to be the detonation point for the most elegant part of us to come forward.Now, those of us who don't come from such a place, we're just bamboozled and Shanghai'ed by the notion of formality, which we kind of eschew. You don't like formality when it comes to celebration, as if these two things are hostile, one to the other. But I'd like you to consider the real possibility that formality is grace under pressure, and that formality is there to give you a repertoire of response that rescues you from the gross limitations of your autobiography.[01:02:00]Next question. I mean, that's the beginning.Chris: Absolutely. Absolutely. Mm-hmm. Thank you once again, Stephen. So alongside the term or concept of "pompe," in which the the guest or stranger was led out of the house or to the entrance of the village, there was also the consideration around the enforcement of hospitality, which you write about in the book. And you write that"the enforcement of hospitality runs the palpable risk of violating or undoing the cultural value it is there to advocate for. Forcing people to share their good fortune with the less fortunate stretches, to the point of undoing the generosity of spirit that the culture holds dear. Enforcement of hospitality is a sign of the eclipse of hospitality, typically spawned by insecurity, contracted self-definition, and the darkening of the [01:03:00] stranger at the door.Instead, such places and times are more likely to encourage the practice of hospitality in subtle generous ways, often by generously treating the ungenerous."And so there seems to be a need for limits placed on hospitality, in terms of the "pompe," the maximum three days in which a stranger can be given hospitality, and concurrently a need to resist enforcing hospitality. This seems like a kind of high-wire act that hospitable cultures have to balance in order to recognize and realize an honorable way of being with a stranger. And so I'm wondering if you could speak to the possibility of how these limits might be practiced without being enforced. What might that look like in a culture that engages with, with such limits, but without prohibitions?Stephen: Mm-hmm. That's a very good question. [01:04:00] Well, I think your previous question was what happened? I think, in a nutshell, and I didn't really answer that, so maybe see how I can use this question to answer the one that you asked before: what happened? So, there's no doubt in my mind that something happened that it's kind of demonstrable, if only with the benefit of hindsight.Audience: Right.Stephen: Or we can feel our way around the edges of the absence of the goneness of that thing that gives us some feel for the original shape of that thing.So you could say I'm trafficking in "ideals," here, and after a fashion, maybe, yeah. But the notion of "ideals," when it's used in this slanderous way suggests that "it was never like that."Chris: Mm-hmm.Stephen: And I suggest to you it's been like that in a lot of places, and there's a lot of places where it's still like that, although globalization [01:05:00] may be the coup de grâce performed upon this capacity. Okay. But anyway.Okay. So what happened? Well, you see in the circumstance that I described, apropos of the stranger, the stranger is in on it. The stranger's principle responsibility is to be the vector for this sort of grandiose generosity coming forward, and to experience that in a burdensome and unreciprocated fashion, until you realize that their willingness to do that is their reciprocity. Everybody doesn't get to do everything at once. You can't give and receive at the same time. You know what that's called? "Secret Santa at school," isn't it?That's where nobody owes nobody nothing at the end. That's what we're all after. I mean, one of your questions, you know, pointed to that, that there's a kind of, [01:06:00] what do you call that, teeter-totter balance between what people did for each other and what they received for each other. Right. And nobody feels slighted in any way, perfect balance, et cetera.Well, the circumstance here has nothing of the kind going with it. The circumstance we're describing now is one in which the hospitality is clearly unequal in terms of who's eating whose food, for example, in terms of the absolutely frustrated notion of reciprocity, that in fact you undo your end of the hospitality by trying to pay back, or give back, or pay at all, or break even, or not feel the burden of "God, you've been on the take for fricking hours here now." And if you really look in the face of the host, I mean, they're just getting started and you can't, you can't take it anymore.[01:07:00]So, one of the ways that we contend with this is through habits of speech. So, if somebody comes around with seconds. They say, "would you like a little more?"And you say, "I'm good. I'm good. I'm good." You see, "I'm good" is code for what? "F**k off." That's what it's code for. It's a little strong. It's a little strong. What I mean is, when "I'm good" comes to town, it means I don't need you and what you have. Good God, you're not there because you need it you knucklehead. You're there because they need it, because their culture needs an opportunity to remember itself. Right?Okay. So what happened? Because you're making it sound like a pretty good thing, really. Like who would say, "I think we've had enough of this hospitality thing, don't you? Let's try, oh, [01:08:00] keeping our s**t to ourselves. That sounds like a good alternative. Let's give it a week or two, see how it rolls." Never happened. Nobody decided to do this - this change, I don't think. I think the change happened, and sometime long after people realized that the change had had taken place. And it's very simple. The change, I think, went something like this.As long as the guest is in on it, there's a shared and mutually-held understanding that doesn't make them the same. It makes them to use the quote from the book "partners," okay, with different tasks to bring this thing to light, to make it so. What does that require? A mutually-held understanding in vivo as it's happening, what it is.Okay. [01:09:00] So, that the stranger who's not part of the host culture... sorry, let me say this differently.The culture of the stranger has made the culture of the host available to the stranger no matter how personally adept he or she may be at receiving. Did you follow that?Audience: A little.Stephen: Okay. Say it again?Audience: Yes, please.Stephen: Okay. The acculturation, the cultured sophistication of the stranger is at work in his or her strangerhood. Okay. He or she's not at home, but their cultural training helps them understand what their obligations are in terms of this arrangement we've been describing here.Okay, so I think the rupture takes place [01:10:00] when the culturation of one side or the other fails to make the other discernible to the one.One more time?When something happens whereby the acculturation of one of the partners makes the identity, the presence, and the valence of the other one untranslatable. Untranslatable.I could give you an example from what I call " the etiquette of trade," or the... what was the word? Not etiquette. What's the other word?Chris: The covenant?Stephen: Okay, " covenant of trade" we'll call it. So, imagine that people are sitting across from each other, two partners in a trade. Okay? [01:11:00] Imagine that they have one thing to sell or move or exchange and somebody has something else.How does this work? Not "what are the mechanics?" That can be another discussion, but, if this works, how does it work? Not "how does it happen?" How does it actually achieve what they're after? Maybe it's something like this.I have this pottery, and even though you're not a potter, but somebody in your extended family back home was, and you watched what they went through to make a fricking pot, okay?You watched how their hands seized up, because the clay leached all the moisture out of the hands. You distinctly remember that - how the old lady's hands looked cracked and worn, and so from the work of making vessels of hospitality, okay? [01:12:00] It doesn't matter that you didn't make it yourself. The point is you recognize in the item something we could call "cultural patrimony."You recognize the deep-runningness of the culture opposite you as manifest and embodied in this item for trade. Okay? So, the person doesn't have to "sell you" because your cultural sophistication makes this pot on the other side available to you for the deeply venerable thing that it is. Follow what I'm saying?Okay. So, you know what I'm gonna say next? When something happens, the items across from you cease to speak, cease to have their stories come along with them, cease to be available. There's something about your cultural atrophy that you project onto the [01:13:00] item that you don't recognize.You don't recognize it's valence, it's proprieties, it's value, it's deep-running worth and so on. Something happened, okay? And because you're not making your own stuff back home or any part of it. And so now, when you're in a circumstance like this and you're just trying to get this pot, but you know nothing about it, then the enterprise becomes, "Okay, so what do you have to part with to obtain the pot?"And the next thing is, you pretend you're not interested in obtaining the pot to obtain the pot. That becomes part of the deal. And then, the person on the making end feels the deep running slight of your disinterest, or your vague involvement in the proceedings, or maybe the worst: when it's not things you're going back and forth with, but there's a third thing called money, which nobody makes, [01:14:00] which you're not reminded of your grandma or anyone else's with the money. And then, money becomes the ghost of the original understanding of the cultural patrimony that sat between you. That's what happened, I'm fairly sure: the advent, the estrangement that comes with the stranger, instead of the opportunity to be your cultural best when the stranger comes.And then of course, it bleeds through all kinds of transactions beyond the "obvious material ones." So, it's a rupture in translatability, isn't it?Chris: You understand this to happen or have happened historically, culturally, et cetera, with matrimony as well?Stephen: Oh, absolutely. Yeah.Yeah. This is why, for example, things like the fetishization of virginity.Audience: Mm-hmm. [01:15:00]Stephen: I think it's traceable directly to what we're talking about. How so? Oh, this is a whole other long thing, but the very short version would be this.Do you really believe that through all of human history until the recent liberation, that people have forever fetishized the virginity of a young woman and jealously defended it, the "men" in particular, and that it became a commodity to trade back and forth in, and that it had to be prodded and poked at to determine its intactness? And this was deemed to be, you know, honourable behavior?Do you really think that's the people you come from, that they would've do that to the most cherished of their [01:16:00] own, barely pubescent girls? Come on now. I'm not saying it didn't happen and doesn't still happen. I'm not saying that. I'm saying, God almighty, something happened for that to be so.And I'm trying to allude to you now what I think took place. Then all of a sudden, the hymen takes the place of the pottery, doesn't it? And it becomes universally translatable. Doesn't it? It becomes a kind of a ghosted artifact of a culturally-intact time. It's as close as you can get.Hence, this allegation of its purity, or the association with purity, and so on. [01:17:00] I mean, there's lots to say, but that gives you a feel for what might have happened there.Chris: Thank you, Stephen. Thank you for being so generous with your considerations here.Stephen: You see why I had to write a book, eh?Audience: Mm-hmm.Stephen: There was too much bouncing around. Like I had to just keep track of my own thoughts on the matter.But can you imagine all of this at play in the year, oh, I don't know, 2022, trying to put into motion a redemptive passion play called "matrimony," with all of this at play? Not with all of this in my mind, but with all of this actually disfiguring the anticipation of the proceedings for the people who came.Can you imagine? Can you imagine trying to pull it off, and [01:18:00] contending overtly with all these things and trying to make room for them in a moment that's supposed to be allegedly - get ready for it - happy.I should have raised my rates on the first day, trying to pull that off.But anyway.Okay, you go now,Chris: Maybe now you'll have the opportunity.Stephen: No, man. No. I'm out of the running for that. "Pompe" has come and come and gone. Mm.Chris: So, in matrimony, Stephen, you write that"the brevity, the brevity of modern ceremonies is really there to make sure that nothing happens, nothing of substance, nothing of consequence, no alchemy, no mystery, no crazy other world stuff. That overreach there in its scripted heart tells me that deep in the rayon-wrapped bosom of that special day, the modern wedding is scared [01:19:00] silly of something happening. That's because it has an ages-old abandoned memory of a time when a wedding was a place where the Gods came around, where human testing and trying and making was at hand, when the dead lingered in the wings awaiting their turn to testify and inveigh."Gorgeous. Gorgeous.Audience: Mm-hmm.Chris: And so I'm curious ifStephen: "Rayon-wrapped bosom." That's not, that's not shabby.Chris: "Rayon-wrapped bosom of that special day." Yeah.So, I'm curious do you think the more-than-human world practices matrimony, and if so, what, if anything, might you have learned about matrimony from the more-than-human world?Stephen: I would say the reverse. I would say, we practice the more-than-human world in matrimony, not that the more-than-human world practices matrimony. We practice them, [01:20:00] matrimonially.Next. Okay. Or no? I just gonna say that, that's pretty good.Well, where do we get our best stuff from? Let's just wonder that. Do we get our best stuff from being our best? Well, where does that come from? And this is a bit of a barbershop mirrors situation here, isn't it? To, to back, back, back, back.If you're thinking of time, you can kind of get lost in that generation before, or before, before, before. And it starts to sound like one of them biblical genealogies. But if you think of it as sort of the flash point of multiple presences, if you think of it that way, then you come to [01:21:00] credit the real possibility that your best stuff comes from you being remembered by those who came before you.Audience: Hmm.Stephen: Now just let that sit for a second, because what I just said is logically-incompatible.Okay? You're being remembered by people who came before you. That's not supposed to work. It doesn't work that way. Right?"Anticipated," maybe, but "remembered?" How? Well, if you credit the possibility of multiple beginnings, that's how. Okay. I'm saying that your best stuff, your best thoughts, not the most noble necessarily. I would mean the most timely, [01:22:00] the ones that seem most needed, suddenly.You could take credit and sure. Why, why not? Because ostensibly, it arrives here through you, but if you're frank with yourself, you know that you didn't do that on command, right? I mean, you could say, I just thought of it, but you know in your heart that it was thought of and came to you.I don't think there's any difference between saying that and saying you were thought of.Audience: Mm-hmm.Stephen: So, that's what I think the rudiments of old-order matrimony are. They are old people and their benefactors in the food chain and spiritually speaking. Old people and their benefactors, the best part of them [01:23:00] willed to us, entrusted and willed to us. So, when you are willing to enter into the notion that old-order matrimony is older than you, older than your feelings for the other person, older than your love, and your commitment, and your willingness to make the vows and all that stuff, then you're crediting the possibility that your love is not the beginning of anything.You see. Your love is the advent of something, and I use that word deliberately in its Christian notion, right? It's the oncomingness, the eruption into the present day of something, which turns out to be hugely needed and deeply unsuspected at the same time.I used to ask in the school, "can you [01:24:00] have a memory of something you have no lived experience of?" I think that's what the best part of you is. I'm not saying the rest of you is shite. I'm not saying that. You could say that, but I am saying that when I say "the best part of you," that needs a lot of translating, doesn't it?But the gist of it is that the best part of you is entrusted to you. It's not your creation, it's your burden, your obligation, your best chance to get it right. And that's who we are to those who came before us. We are their chance to get it right, and matrimony is one of the places where you practice the gentle art of getting it right.[01:25:00] Another decent reason to write a book.Chris: So, gorgeous. Wow. Thank you Stephen. I might have one more question.Stephen: Okay. I might have one more answer. Let's see.Chris: Alright. Would I be able to ask if dear Nathalie Roy could join us up here alongside your good man.So, returning to Matrimony: Ritual, Culture and the Heart's Work. On page 94, [01:26:00] Stephen, you write that"hospitality of the radical kind is

Send us a textWe're back for season three of the podcast with stories from our summer camping adventures and misadventures. Despite numerous weather challenges and trip cancellations, we managed to create memorable experiences with good friends in beautiful Georgian Bay.• Our planned Algonquin Park canoe loop with Thomas was cancelled due to illness• Our Georgian Bay expedition faced extreme winds up to 100 km/h and constant rain• We were joined by friends from Beauty of the Backcountry and Tents and Timber which made the challenging conditions more fun• Review of Bear Vaults as an alternative to traditional food barrel hangs for backcountry camping• Upcoming adventures include whitewater paddling courses and a trip down the Spanish River• Future podcast topics will include conservation areas, invasive species, and boating safetyIf you have ideas for episodes or questions you'd like us to cover, please reach out to us at hi@supergoodcamping.com or find us on social media.Support the showCONNECT WITH US AT SUPER GOOD CAMPING:Support the podcast & buy super cool SWAG: https://store.skgroupinc.com/super_good_camping/shop/homeEMAIL: hi@supergoodcamping.comWEBSITE: www.supergoodcamping.comYOUTUBE: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCqFDJbFJyJ5Y-NHhFseENsQINSTAGRAM: https://www.instagram.com/super_good_camping/TWITTER: https://twitter.com/SuperGoodCampinFACEBOOK GROUP: https://www.facebook.com/groups/SuperGoodCamping/TIKTOK: https://www.tiktok.com/@supergoodcamping Support the show

Fire bans. Blackouts. Heat waves. Extreme weather is hitting harder and more often. Plus, Canada's electricity demand is soaring. In thinkenergy episode 161, host Trevor Freeman breaks down how utilities plan for grid resilience, from upgrading local infrastructure to planning a national east-west grid. He also explores how customer demand response can help prevent outages. Learn how climate and consumption are reshaping our energy systems and what's being done to keep the lights on through extreme weather.   Related links   Electrifying Canada's remote communities with QUEST Canada (thinkenergy episode 143): https://thinkenergypodcast.com/episodes/electrifying-canadas-remote-communities-with-quest-canada/ Trevor Freeman on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/trevor-freeman-p-eng-8b612114 Hydro Ottawa: https://hydroottawa.com/en     To subscribe using Apple Podcasts:  https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/thinkenergy/id1465129405    To subscribe using Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/7wFz7rdR8Gq3f2WOafjxpl    To subscribe on Libsyn: http://thinkenergy.libsyn.com  --- Subscribe so you don't miss a video: https://www.youtube.com/user/hydroottawalimited    Follow along on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/hydroottawa    Stay in the know on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/HydroOttawa   Keep up with the posts on X: https://twitter.com/thinkenergypod  --- Transcript: Trevor Freeman  00:07 Welcome to a thinkenergy short, hosted by me, Trevor Freeman. This is a bite sized episode designed to be a quick summary of a specific topic or idea related to the world of energy. This is meant to round out our collective understanding of the energy sector, and will complement our normal guest interview episodes. Thanks for joining and happy listening. Hi everyone, and welcome back to thinkenergy. I hope you all had a great summer at equal parts restful and exciting. Certainly, we had a great summer here. It was good to take a bit of a step back and think about all the exciting topics that we have to talk to you about coming up over the course of the next season of the think energy podcast. And it's nice to be back here behind the microphone. I'm recording this just at the tail end of summer, the kind of end of August, and looking forward to getting into lots of good content this year. Today, we're going to start off our season with a look at the impact of extreme weather on our grid, as our grid is already under pressure from growing electricity demand. So it's a bit of a look at what utilities are doing in the face of that pressure. So this will be a think energy short, and we'll bring you our guest episode the next time around. So let's dive right in then. What does extreme weather mean for Canada's electricity infrastructure, and should we be worried about its ability to handle that extreme weather? This is kind of top of mind right now. We're at the tail end of summer. It's been a pretty hot and dry summer, at least where I am. Incidentally, I'm about to head into Algonquin Park for a backcountry camping trip, and there's a fire bed on and that's not unheard of in Algonquin Park and in many parts of the country, but this late in the season, it's pretty rare. I think this might actually be the first time that we've had a fire ban so late in the season that I can remember that I've been camping on and I go pretty frequently. So that'll be a little bit unique. And so yeah, a hot, dry summer is certainly one of those things we think of when we think about the changing weather patterns. But this is also top of mind because Rukshar Ali, who's a journalist with CTV, has been exploring, you know, the weak points in Canada's electricity grids, and has been writing about what impact extreme weather might have on those grids. So at a very high level, Canada's power grids as they are built today and in the past, as they have been built. So at a high level, Canada's power grids, as we've been building them for the last 100 years or so, need improvements in order to be able to withstand the frequent extreme weather and growing demand for electricity that we're having. That's not anything new, we talk about that often, how we need to invest in our grid for both reliability as well as expansion and the growing electrification of our society. Climate change is here, extreme weather is here, and those things are adding strain to our grid at the same time that demand is increasing and the grid is is redundant in many aspects. If we lose one component, then we can continue on and serve parts of our customer base from other sections. But extreme weather events are likely to knock out several aspects of the grid at once, and we need to improve in order to be able to withstand that. To give you a sense of the magnitude of the issue, the North American Electric Liability Corporation predicts that within the next decade, half of North America will be at risk for a significant blackout. So let's talk a little bit about why extreme weather as we know as the as the globe warms up from climate change, the frequency and magnitude of weather events increases, so we'll see more extreme weather events, and those extreme weather events will be more extreme, to reuse that word, and we're already seeing this. So last year, for example, severe weather caused 1000 outages in Nova Scotia, between 2013 and 2023 if we look across the entire country, there were around 10 extreme weather events that caused nearly 20 million customers to lose power across Canada. And eight of those 10 extreme weather events occurred in the five year period between 2018 and 2023 so that the frequency of these very significant, very extreme weather events, is definitely growing up. This is all happening at the same time that the country's electricity demand is also increasing and placing pressure on our infrastructure. So we know that usage is going to grow with electrification. We've talked about that a lot here and here in Ontario, the Independent Electricity System Operator, is projecting that consumption will increase by 75% by the year 2050, which is a significant jump up. And so as demand is increasing, we're also seeing that pressure on the grid from that and extreme weather kind of exacerbates that problem too. So extreme heat waves cause people to use their air conditioners more frequently and for longer, and that puts greater demand on the grid as well. So in July of 2023 you might recall this extreme kind of heat period in British Columbia out on the West Coast, and there's the heat dome, and that period saw the province use about 8% more electricity on average, than the previous kind of six year July average. So there is a significant increase from that one single heat event. So what do we do about this? How do we act in the face of increased extreme weather and electrification. Well, first off, we definitely need to update our infrastructure. And utility companies across the country and indeed across North America know this and have already started to do this here in hydro Ottawa's territory, for example, as I've talked about before, hydro Ottawa has a five year investment plan covering the 2026 to 2030 period, which is the largest investment plan in our company's history, and it carries a significant amount of investment in grid reliability, grid modernization, improving and expanding our infrastructure for just these challenges, so for the extreme weather and increased electricity demand across Our grid, if you zoom out a little bit and other parts of the country, the East Coast, for example, Nova Scotia Power recently finished a pole replacement project that saw a significant number of poles being replaced, and they're now moving into a Smart Grid Initiative, which is similar to grid modernization that I've talked about Here on the show in the past, which also addresses utilization of the grid, as well as ability to react during an outage on a bigger scale across the entire country, the federal government has promised to look at an east, west electricity grid, which would help connect more Canadians to more affordable and reliable power. And obviously, new construction would be focused on being able to withstand extreme weather as well as bring on more electricity demand as part of electrification. We've talked here in the past on the show, and the CTV journalist Ali points out that the current grid system makes it a lot easier for provinces to transfer electricity to the United States. It's kind of that north south flow of electricity is a lot easier than an East West flow of electricity. So trading between provinces today is difficult, and that's why there's a push for a national grid, an East West grid, that would make it a lot easier for Canadians to share electricity amongst each other. This would also have the benefit of helping connect more rural and remote communities. So I draw your attention back to a podcast episode I did with quest Canada, where we talked about some of those more remote communities and how a lot of them are not connected to a reliable grid. So there's a lot of work that can be done to really shore up how we connect across the country to the different areas, especially with a major east west grid. And of course, this is supported during this kind of, you know, a little bit tumultuous political climate that we have as we're reevaluating trading relationships with the United States, with other countries, it's important that we really focus on, how do we make sure things flow very well within our own borders? Beyond just the transmission and the grid upgrades that we need to do, we also need to look at diversifying our supply of electricity. So here in Canada, we use a lot of hydro generation, but extreme weather that causes droughts put that at risk. And so low water levels can impact electrical production, and we need to be prepared to have alternative sources as well. We still need to focus on making sure those sources are renewable. So really looking at expanding wind, solar, nuclear energy in some cases, as well as building out other hydro electric generation resources, is really important to have a good diversified mix. And on top of all that, we also need to continue looking at, how can we lower our energy consumption, especially during those peak times, especially when the grid is under stress at certain times of the day or from certain weather events. And we've seen that this can work. So in January 2024 the Alberta electric system operator, or IESO, issued an alert. It was a cold weather alert asking customers to reduce their electricity use during an extremely cold period in that province. And. And shortly after that, there was a 200 megawatt drop in electricity demand, which really helped the province avoid a series of rolling outages and avoid some real challenges on the grid. So it does work when customers are asked to alter their behavior in, you know, hopefully, small and subtle ways to manage grid peaks, and that's a really huge tool that we have. And we've talked before on the show about the role of managing peak times on the grid and being able to shift some of that usage to other times to avoid over stressing the assets that we have. That's going to be a really important strategy as we face increasing demand and extreme weather outages to make sure we're not over stressing the grid. So to sum that all up, extreme weather is going to impact our grid, and utilities do need to be aware of that and plan for how to build a grid that is more resilient and more reliable in the face of that increasing extreme weather. The good news is that utility companies know this and are already moving in that direction, and hydro Ottawa is a good example of that, of really focusing on building out reliability on its grid with some of the investment plans that we have put forward, and that extends all the way up to the federal level as well, where our federal leadership is looking at, how do we plan a EAST, WEST grid, really build out that provincial grid, and while we do that, a continued focus on energy efficiency and reducing electricity demand during peak times, and the various tools that we have to do that. So yes, extreme weather is coming, but there's a plan of how to deal with that. So thanks for tuning in today. It's really great to be back here behind the microphone and chatting with you all. Our next episode is another look at grid modernization, but this time through a customer lens, and really, what does grid modernization mean for customers? So stay tuned and join us in two weeks for our next episode. Thanks for tuning in to another episode of the think energy podcast. Don't forget to subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts, and it would be great if you could leave us a review. It really helps to spread the word. As always, we would love to hear from you, whether it's feedback comments or an idea for a show or a guest, you can always reach us at thinkenergy@hydroottawa.com, you.

Every summer, Canadian scientists leave their labs and classrooms and fan out across the planet to do research in the field. This week, we're sharing some of their adventures.Camping out on a remote island with thousands of screaming, pooping, barfing birdsAbby Eaton and Flynn O'Dacre spent their summer on Middleton Island, a remote, uninhabited island that lies 130 kilometers off the coast of Alaska. They were there to study seabirds, in particular the rhinoceros auklet and the black-legged kittiwake, as a part of a long-term research project that monitors the health of the birds to help understand the health of the world's oceans. Eaton and O'Dacre are graduate students working under Emily Choy at McMaster University in Hamilton, OntarioDodging lions and mongooses to monitor what wild dogs are eating in MozambiquePhD student Nick Wright spent his summer in Gorongosa National Park in Mozambique. After a brutal civil war wiped out 95 per cent of the large mammals in the park, much work has been done to bring back a healthy wildlife population, to mixed success. Nick was monitoring wild dogs this summer to learn what they're eating, and what effects their recent re-introduction has had on the other animals. Wright is in the Gaynor lab at the University of British Columbia.Saving ancient silk road graffiti from dam-inundationThe legendary silk road is a network of trade routes stretching from Eastern China to Europe and Africa, used by traders from the second century BCE to the fifteenth century CE. Travelers often left their marks, in the form of graffiti and other markings on stone surfaces along the route. Construction of a dam in Pakistan is threatening some of these petroglyphs, and an international team is working to document them online while there is still time. Jason Neelis, of the Religion and Culture Department, and Ali Zaidi, from the Department of Global Studies, both at Wilfrid Laurier University in Waterloo, Ontario, are part of the team.Prospecting for World War II bombs in an Ottawa bogPablo Arzate's tests of sensor-equipped drones developed for mining uncovered 80-year-old relics leftover from World War II bomber pilot training in the Mer Bleue bog southeast of Ottawa. Arzate, the founder of 3XMAG Technologies from Carleton University, says his newly-developed technology revealed a trove of unexploded ordnance lurking beneath the bog's surface. Technology allows examination of Inca mummies without disturbing themAndrew Nelson and his team spent the summer in Peru devising new methods of non-invasively scanning Peruvian mummies dating to the Inca period – so they can study them without unwrapping them. In Peru, ancient human remains were wrapped in large bundles along with other objects. Nelson is a professor and chair of the Department of Anthropology at Western University in London, Ontario. This work is done in conjunction with the Ministry of Culture of Peru.Eavesdropping on chatty snapping turtles in Algonquin ParkSince 1972, scientists have been spending their summers at the Algonquin Park research station to monitor the turtles living in the area. In recent years, the researchers discovered that these turtles vocalise –– both as adults, and as hatchlings still in the egg. So this summer, Njal Rollinson and his students set out to record these vocalisations to try and understand what the turtles are saying. Rollinson is an associate professor in the Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology and the School of the Environment at the University of Toronto.

Recently I spoke with Adam Lewis, co-founder of MANCAMP, a Canadian gathering dedicated to “the celebration of masculinity.” (Disclosure: Adam is also a mentorship client of mine).Now entering its second year, MANCAMP emerged from Adam's experiences organizing raw and elemental camping trips with small groups of men in the wilderness. What began as paddling into Algonquin Park has grown into a vision of 150+ men coming together for a weekend of transformation, brotherhood, and celebration.Adam shares the story of how MANCAMP was born—first as a seed of inspiration, then through the alignment with his co-founder Geoff ‘Rawa Larden, and finally in the inaugural gathering last September that drew men from across Ontario. Despite the (sometimes) chaotic organizing of a first-year festival, the event sold out and left lasting ripples in the lives of the men who attended. From deep heartbreak to profound breakthroughs, Adam recounts stories of men who returned home more grounded, more alive, and more connected to their families and communities.In our conversation today, Adam and I explore the ingredients that shape the container: archetypal frameworks drawn from King, Warrior, Magician, Lover and a roster of diverse facilitators, as well as sweat lodge, ecstatic dance, shared meals, and the sober presence of men choosing to lean into the work, together. The medicine found in connection and brotherhood itself becomes the initiatory field.I am honored to join as a speaker at this year's event, taking place September 18–21, 2025 at Merkaba Acres in Ontario. Use my promo code below for MYTHIC20 for 20% off the ticket price. Get full info & tickets here http://mancamp.ca This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit themythicmasculine.substack.com/subscribe

Canadian Entertainment Podcast family we are back thank you for supporting this podcast. Could this be one of our worst episodes of all time? Potentially, but we gave it our all considering we had some roadblocks. We talk Grizzly Man, Speaking French, Algonquin Park and then we get visited by 3 hostile entities. Enjoy!

Escape to the edge of wilderness luxury in this eye-opening conversation with Rick Dolishny, who alongside partner Jenn Carr has created Ontario's most innovative glamping experience at Maynooth Station Lodge. Rick shares the fascinating journey of bringing North America's only double-paned glass panoramic geodesic dome to life near Algonquin Park. This isn't just camping with better amenities—it's a revolutionary approach to wilderness tourism where modern comforts meet forest immersion. The dome features air conditioning, gigabit internet, a private hot tub for stargazing, and yes, a proper flush toilet that even the most luxury-minded travelers appreciate.What makes this story particularly compelling is how quickly Maynooth Station Lodge found success. Despite regulatory hurdles with Ontario's building codes that weren't designed for round structures, Rick and Jenn persevered. Now, just weeks after opening, they're completely booked through October, attracting urban professionals from Toronto and international travelers from as far as Germany. Their contactless check-in model perfectly matches what younger travelers are actively seeking—privacy, independence, and seamless technology integration in a natural setting.Beyond the dome itself, Rick has woven together a network of local adventure experiences—from UTV tours to whitewater rafting—creating a comprehensive wilderness getaway that benefits the entire Maynooth community. Local businesses report dramatic increases in visitors, with travelers arriving in everything from family minivans to white Porsche convertibles.Whether you're dreaming of your own glamping getaway or considering entering the outdoor hospitality business yourself, this episode offers invaluable insights into the future of tourism. 

Thank you to today's sponsors!- The Invasive Species Centre: Protecting Canada's land and water from invasive species- SAIL: The Ultimate Destination for your Outdoor Adventures- J&B Cycle and Marine: Your Home for all things powersports, boats, and equipment- Freedom Cruise Canada: Rent the boat, own the memories- Anglers Leaderboard: Real-time AI angling platform where everyone is welcome, and every catch counts!- Silverwax: Proudly Canadian since 1999This week on Outdoor Journal Radio, Ang flies solo and takes listeners deep into the Experimental Lakes Area in northwestern Ontario with guest Pauline Gerrard, Executive Director of the IISD-ELA. From mysterious lakes once rumoured to exist in Algonquin Park to groundbreaking whole-lake experiments, we uncover the real science behind algal blooms, mercury in pristine waters, and the shocking truth about microplastics in fish.Also in this episode:A special conservation corner on grass carp and invasive speciesWhy walleye sushi might not be the smartest ideaNew store discounts (Code: PLASTIC)Listener question: Are soft plastic baits a pollution problem?

The Boys sit down with special guests Fronz and Justin. The group was joined by Chief over the phone to discuss their recent, intense canoe trip. The group recall the many ups and downs of their weekend canoe trip in the white water rapids up in Algonquin Park.

For years, people have made the journey to Algonquin Park to see the landscapes that inspired Tom Thomson's famous paintings. IDEAS producer Sean Foley was one of them, exploring the great Canadian artist's muse while also examining Indigenous artists' perspectives of the same landscapes that Thomson and the Group of Seven may have missed. *This is the second episode in a two-part exploration of the Canadian painter. It originally aired on Dec. 18, 2018.

Tom Thomson is one of the most mythologized Canadian painters of his time — and ours. Over 100 years ago, the artist died suddenly on Canoe Lake in Algonquin Park, when he was at the peak of his powers. IDEAS producer Sean Foley delves into what we think we know about Tom Thomson and examines the tales that have evolved over the past century. *This episode originally aired Nov. 9, 2018.Guests in this episode:Gregory Klages, historian and author of The Many Deaths of Tom Thomson: Separating Fact from Fiction.Sherrill Grace, Professor Emerita at the University of British Columbia and the author of Inventing Tom Thomson Ian Dejardin, art historian and the former executive director of the McMichael Canadian Art Collection.Pete Telford, chairman of the Friends of Leith Church, Leith, Ontario.

Claire Cameron has been obsessed with bears since hearing about a bear attack while she was working in Ontario's Algonquin Park as a teenager. But when she was diagnosed with cancer, Cameron revisited the details of that attack and the wilderness environment that's shaped much of her life. In a conversation from March, she told Galloway about her new memoir How to Survive a Bear Attack, and what facing death taught her about how to live.

Discover the fascinating world of the White-throated Sparrow: birds with two colour morphs, a unique mating system, and songs that spread like the latest Taylor Swift release. Professors Ken Otter and Scott Ramsay reveal the surprising complexity behind these seemingly ordinary birds.When you order from birdsandbeans.ca/warblers Birds and Beans donates to this podcast, plus you support bird-friendly coffee farms which provide essential habitat, simply by drinking a cup of coffee. Scott Ramsay is a Biology professor at Wilfrid Laurier University in Waterloo, ON, where he has been studying White-throated Sparrows since 2001. Since joining the faculty at Laurier, his research has included studies of the White-throated Sparrow populations in Algonquin Park, and Prince George BC in collaboration with Ken Otter.Ken Otter is a professor at the University of Northern British Columbia. Ken and his team were behind much of the song research for White-throated Sparrows. His primary interest is in how forest birds respond to anthropogenic disturbance.Andrea Gress (she/her) secretly thinks Piping Plovers are better than all the other birds...studied Renewable Resource Management at the University of Saskatchewan. She pivoted towards birds, after an internship in South Africa. Upon returning, she worked with Piping Plovers in Saskatchewan, and then as the Ontario Piping Plover Coordinator. Years of sharing her love of plovers with beach goers has turned into a full time communications role with Birds Canada. Support the show

Strange wildlife encounters close to home can remind us of our complex relationship with the natural world. Jerry Ouellette opens this episode with a startling story about a raccoon that boldly entered his house by following his dog through the back door, leading to concerns about potential disease transmission and a late-night veterinary visit.This unexpected encounter perfectly sets up our fascinating conversation with Dr. David Galbraith, Director of Science at the Royal Botanical Gardens (RBG) in Hamilton, Ontario. Dr. Galbraith brings decades of expertise in wildlife biology to his role, having spent years researching turtle populations in Algonquin Park before joining RBG over 30 years ago. His insights on turtle longevity reveal the remarkable fact that some snapping turtles could easily be a century old—creatures that might have "said hi to Champlain as he paddled by."The Royal Botanical Gardens itself emerges as a remarkable conservation success story spanning nearly a century. Founded through the vision of Thomas Baker McQuiston in the 1920s and granted royal designation by King George V in 1930, RBG now encompasses over 2,100 acres of diverse habitats. Dr. Galbraith details their innovative approaches to managing invasive species like carp and phragmites, including a pioneering "fish filter" system and creative use of old Christmas trees to create wetland berms. Their prairie restoration efforts, complete with controlled burns, demonstrate how careful management can bring back lost habitats and endangered species.Beyond its scientific importance, RBG offers visitors a remarkable range of experiences throughout the seasons—from lilac gardens and woodland trails to winter exhibits and natural skating on Coots Paradise Marsh. At just an hour's drive from Toronto, this natural treasure provides both recreational opportunities and vital ecosystem services to the densely populated Golden Horseshoe region.Ready to explore this natural wonder yourself? Visit rbg.ca to learn about upcoming events, seasonal blooms, and conservation projects that you can witness firsthand. Whether you're a passionate naturalist, a casual garden enthusiast, or simply seeking a peaceful retreat from urban life, the Royal Botanical Gardens offers a perfect blend of beauty, science, and natural inspiration.

  Dr. Melvern Katzman is an amazing example of someone who is growing older with gusto and with a great sense of humor. He is a family man who cherishes his family connections, and has a revolving list of hobbies that keep him current and focused. He has the can do it spirit that has navigated him throughout his 97 years! — Watch the episode here    Listen to the podcast here    Super Ager & Super Helper: Dr. Katzman, 97, Solves My Tech Crisis! Welcome to the show. We are continuing a series of episodes with people who are considered to be super-agers. Dr. Melvern Katzman, who lives in Toronto, is 97 years young and will be talking to us about what it takes to get to his age. Dr. Katzmann practiced optometry for 60 years, was actively involved in his professional organizations, his faith, and was a leader for Habitat for Humanity. Most recently, at age 97, he chaired his condo buildings 40th anniversary party. He is definitely growing older with Gusto. Let's get started.      Welcome to the show, Dr. Katzman. Thank you very much for having me. Staying Vital At Any Age: Dr. Katzman's Secret Sauce To Joyful Aging I just have to tell my listeners, this is like so impressive before we even start the conversation. Dr. Katzman was having some trouble getting onto the podcast recording platform. He showed you effort like within a half hour, he did it all figure out, and here we are. I'm so impressed because I am a techno Neanderthal, and you're 97 years old, and I couldn't do what you did. I'm impressed. I wanted to ask you, people who come on our show or are selected because they've shown by example, their attitude towards growing older, and you're growing older in a positive and productive way. What would you tell someone who's maybe 50 years old what to do and how to grow older without being fearful of growing older? Let's say this. I really provided for my old age. I have many hobbies and I'm involved in the community, involved in my condo. When my time came to retire, I had plenty of things to do to keep my mind off being feared. Tell us a little bit about what you did to stay vital all these years. What were some of your hobbies? I know you do genealogy, and check me out. That was pretty impressive, too. I'm a stamp collector, a coin collector, involved with the condo, which I expanded into being involved with the federal government, the provincial government, and the municipal government. I'm quite active in the community. What would you say to our readers that has given you the greatest strength as you navigate through life's ups and downs? I think I'd have to go back to my family, my mother, my father, my in-laws, and one uncle who is my mentor. They provided a lot to me. They were the ones who made Mel Katzman. A Love Story & Lasting Connections: Family & Friends At 97 Dr. Katzman, tell our readers the wonderful story about how you met your wife. Believe it or not, it was that mentor uncle who made a blind date. He once had a function. He saw my supposed next and my wife, and he said, “That would be a nice girl for Mel.” We made a date, but he didn't realize her age. She was 17 and I was 24 and she wouldn't refuse the date because of my uncle. When we saw each other, that was it. Love at first sight, right? It's amazing. Talk to our readers a little bit about the importance of creating and keeping a strong circle of friends. There aren't too many friends. There aren't too many of my friends left. I seem to be the last one. What has happened? Children learn by observing and copying the actions and habits of adults. Throughout your life, I know you must have had a wide circle of friends. I had a lot of friends. Most of them, believe it or not, were younger than my wife and I. From my synagogue was one source. We belong to many organizations, and my activities in the community have created a lot of friends. Why do you think that you and your wife were drawn to younger people, or I should say, they were drawn to you? Why? We both enjoyed life. We were a happy couple, and we met happy people. That is very important. You mentioned having a lot of hobbies. I know you love genealogy. In stamp collecting, coin collecting, are there any other things that have given you great pleasure that's ongoing even? I think that my family has most people who want you to chat with them. They tell you that their family is very important. They contribute to your longevity. What is important to me besides I have a wonderful family, and I am needed. That is important to me. It's amazing when the family, the love that they give, extends life in my family, and being chronically blessed. I couldn't ask for more. They fulfill my needs with love. They also have given me something just as important, the feeling of being needed, which gives me a sense of purpose, belonging, and being important in our lives. I cannot go anywhere. They need me. The Power Of Being Needed: Finding Purpose & Fulfillment In Later Life I think that's so amazing because you're one of the first people on the podcast to really talk about that so important quality of being needed, and having a purpose in life. I know having a purpose in life is so important to growing older with Gusto. I know because your daughter reached out to me that obviously what everything you're saying is absolutely 100% authentic. I just think it says a lot about you and the type of father you were and grandfather. Tell us a little bit about your family. I have to bring in my wife. My wife is an exceptional person. How long were you married? 69 years. What I have and what we gave to our children, I give it all to her. She brought up that we now have seven doctors in the family, two lawyers, one CP, and one who didn't follow me, but took over one of my hobbies, which was construction, and he's in the construction industry. Tell us about your hobby in construction. You sent me a photo of a beautiful chair. Tell us about that. It was weak. My wife and I used to go around to antique shows, and we picked up this old chair, and I loved Mackenzie-Child. Her type of art. I painted the chair in her style. I've done other pieces of furniture. I've made furniture for my children and grandchildren. Very interesting for my grandson's Bar Mitzvah. I did the complete venue. He loved camping. I don't know if of Algonquin Park. The whole venue was Algonquin Park.     Tell us a little bit more about what it looked like. As you entered, there was a sign that you would like a highway sign made out of trees, and on it was his whole life. In other words, it's where he came from and what he did. I made a large boat that was filled with candy. Each table which not numbered would have the lakes in Algonquin Park. I made passports. You need a passport to get into Algonquin Park. That's so cute. Very creative. What was the color scheme? Outdoor green and white. That's amazing. Do you have any favorite sayings or philosophies for living the good life, which I know you do? I have many sayings, and my grandchildren and my children know them all. They fit situations, but one of my favorite sayings is “Monkey see monkey do.” I believe that children learn by observing and copying the actions and habits. My wife and I have tried to educate by example. I really like that. Lately, I've been reading a lot about what they call neuroplasticity of our brains, which basically they're saying your brain can change at any age, and in order to keep it supple and keep it going, there are certain things you should do, and obviously, you've done those. I'd like you to share your wisdom with our readers and talk a little bit about what you think makes for a strong brain. I just think that I gained active. As you can see, we have problems getting on. I didn't give up. You didn't. You're amazing. Right in the very beginning. It's so amazing. I played with it, and that's my life. I won't give up on anything. I can sit for days and take time to find something, that's just my style. That's great. Thinking back on your lifetime, what have been some of the largest societal changes during your life so far? Navigating The Digital World: Tech, Change, And Living In The Now I think technology. I think that it's affected every aspect of our lives. The internet, the smartphone, social media, and the way we were socialized to communicate. Just imagine if I had the ability to speak to my father, and I tell him that we're talking, I see you, you see me, and it's instantaneous. It's just, I think that made a big change. Are you on social media? The key to a wonderful marriage is respect for one another. Yes. What are you on? Facebook. How about Instagram? No. We will post this on Facebook for sure so that you can see it. Aside from I will obviously email you everything. What do you think about robots and artificial intelligence? That's going to be a big problem. I sit and think since you brought it up when I was doing research work, let's say 50 years ago, I would have to go to the library, pick out a book, sit and take a little piece out of the book to do my search, come back the next day, find another book. Just imagine I can get on the Internet and find information within seconds. I can write a research report within half an hour to an hour that it would take me days to do. Pretty amazing. What has inspired you throughout your life? What's been the most inspirational thing for you? My wife. What was her name? Rene. It's such a lovely love story. It's wonderful. That was 69 years of an exceptional marriage. They say time heals. It isn't a guarantee. It hasn't worked for me.       I know. On a positive note, what would you give somebody getting married? A young couple getting married, what advice would you give them to have a wonderful life and marriage together? Respect for one another. How does one show respect within a marriage in your terms? In my terms, it would be you've got to honor what she thinks, and she'll honor what you think. Listen, in every family, there are hot discussions and arguments, but the nicest part is making up. Any other words of wisdom for the secret sauce to living a joyful and wonderful life like the one you're living? Anything else that you can impart to our readers? I think that my friends, the very interesting as you asked about friends before, like I said, there are not too many of my friends left. As my children grew up, they gathered in our home, they slept over, and my children's friends went on vacations with us. Now that I'm older, they have become my friends. Just this last Sunday, my daughter was away, my older daughter was on call, and I was invited by their friend for Sunday supper. We had a long discussion. It was just like being at home with my children. It's important because if I didn't have them, I would settle. I also know that having a sense of humor is so important, and I know you have a wonderful sense of humor. I experienced your sense of humor when I asked if you were going to be free on certain dates, and you said, “Absolutely.” You gave me your whole schedule of being free from that day until the end of this year, anytime. It was so cute. Very funny. Anyway, I'm out of questions unless you want to say anything else. This has been wonderful hearing everything that you have to say. It's so important and valuable when wonderful. I thank you. I appreciate the opportunity, and thank you very much. By the way, if you need any help with your computer. Give me a phone call and I'll help you. I know who to call. That's cute. Thank you so much for being on the show. You're more than welcome. Thank you. You're welcome. Readers, please tune in on any podcast platform. Please share this episode with your friends and family and send in a comment to our website at www.GrowingOlderWithGusto.com. Remember to always stay calm and stay connected.     Important Links Growing Older with Gusto Growing Older with Gusto on YouTube Growing Older with Gusto on Facebook Gail Zugerman on X

Send us a textEver wondered what makes wildlife photography truly ethical? Jesse Villemaire takes us deep into the heart of this question, revealing how respecting wildlife comes before capturing the perfect shot. As co-founder of Follow Me North with his wife Susan, Jesse shares captivating stories from Algonquin Park's wilderness and South African safaris while unveiling the philosophy that guides their intimate photography workshops."The wildlife comes first, the photo comes next," Jesse emphasizes, explaining how maintaining proper distance and understanding animal behavior creates not just better photographs, but more meaningful encounters. Through heartfelt examples—including a devastating story about a habituated wolf—he illustrates why "baiting" wildlife causes harm that far outweighs any photographic benefit.Jesse's personal journey from tattoo studio owner in Cambridge to wildlife photographer in Muskoka reveals how nature became his essential reset button. The story of meeting his wife through Instagram's Algonquin Park hashtag (culminating in their wedding on an island in Lake of Two Rivers) demonstrates how shared passion for wilderness can forge life's most meaningful connections. Their volunteer work with Aspen Valley Wildlife Sanctuary further showcases their commitment to conservation beyond the lens.From their viral "Santa in a Red Canoe" series to their humorous "Sorry Algonquin" Instagram project pairing stunning images with one-star park reviews, Jesse's creative approach invites others into nature's beauty with both reverence and playfulness. His South African photo tours—where participants might find themselves surrounded by 21 lions—offer transformative experiences that "change you" on a fundamental level.Ready to experience wildlife photography through a more mindful lens? Listen now and discover how connecting with nature might just help you connect more deeply with yourself and others along the way.https://www.instagram.com/followmenorthhttps://www.facebook.com/followmenorthSupport the showCONNECT WITH US AT SUPER GOOD CAMPING:Support the podcast & buy super cool SWAG: https://store.skgroupinc.com/super_good_camping/shop/homeEMAIL: hi@supergoodcamping.comWEBSITE: www.supergoodcamping.comYOUTUBE: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCqFDJbFJyJ5Y-NHhFseENsQINSTAGRAM: https://www.instagram.com/super_good_camping/TWITTER: https://twitter.com/SuperGoodCampinFACEBOOK GROUP: https://www.facebook.com/groups/SuperGoodCamping/TIKTOK: https://www.tiktok.com/@supergoodcamping Support the show

Novelist Claire Cameron investigates the shocking true story of a couple killed by a black bear in Ontario's Algonquin Provincial Park in her debut memoir "How to Survive a Bear Attack." Why did this tragedy resonate with her? And what answers did she hope to find in her quest? Claire Cameron joins Nam Kiwanuka to discuss her latest book. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Guest: Claire Cameron, author of How to Survive a Bear Attack: A Memoir

Claire Cameron has been obsessed with bears since hearing about a bear attack while she was working in Ontario's Algonquin Park as a teenager. But when she was diagnosed with cancer, Cameron revisited the details of that attack and the wilderness environment that's shaped much of her life. She tells Galloway about her new memoir How to Survive a Bear Attack, and what facing death taught her about how to live.

Episode 70: Our Algonquin Park Experiences Part 3 In this episode I share my experiences at Algonquin Park Children's Camps (Camp Tamakwa on South Tea Lake and Camp Wapomeo on Canoe Lake) and Rory shares his experiences working as a summer naturalist and his later work helping establish the Archives and undertaking various archeological projects in and around the Park.  We both then share some ot the details as to why we had to leave and our lives now.

As I mentioned on the previous show about the Lynx trailing trip, I was planning on heading up to Algonquin Park to trail Moose, Algonquin Wolves, Martens, Snowshoe Hare, Flying Squirrels, and whomever else's trails we may come across. Well, I went and it was great. So good that I wanted to offer a bit of a report back from the trip and tell some stories of what we saw. This is the 24th year of this trip, and I am so grateful to get to not only be there, but to be helping lead the week. Kid me would be stoked… hell, adult me is still stoked!Big thanks to Alexis for being a great colleague and mentor, and to everyone who came. It was a blast.To learn more :Algonquins of Ontario overview of land claimMore information on the trip from EarthTracks.ca

From Brian Ginsler, Ginsler Wealth CEO: In my last quarterly letter I discussed the benefits of “doing nothing” (sometimes) as it relates to investing, but suggested that in my next quarterly letter I would discuss the benefits of “doing something”. So here we go... I returned to Algonquin Park in the Fall—my regular annual trip with my buddies. At 2am on our last night, I woke up in the tent and nature was calling. When this happens, the goal is typically to jump out of the tent, do what has to be done, and jump right back in quickly. But while I was outside the tent, I noticed that the pitch darkness of bedtime had turned into a bright moonlit night; the temperature was mild; and I did not hear any bears rustling in the woods (phew). Instead of jumping back into the tent quickly…nature actually was calling…so I decided to do something. Listen to this episode to find out what Brian did... For the original transcript of this letter, and to see weblinks and other media, please visit https://ginslerwealth.com/ginsler-wealth-fourth-quarter-2024-client-letter/

Episode 67: Childrens' Camp Founders  In this episode I share profiles of many of the founders of the key childrens' camps in Algonquin Park including Fanny Case from Camp Northway and Wendigo on Cache Lake, Franklin Gray, William Bennett and Herman Norton from Camp Pathfinder on Source Lake, Taylor and Ethel Statten from Camp Ahmek and Camp Wapomeo on Canoe Lake, Mary Jean Hamilton from Camp Tanamakoon on Lake Tanamakoon, Lillian Kates  from Camp Arrohon on TeePee Lake and Lou Handler and Omer Stringer from Camp Tamakwa on South Tea Lake. Key References include: Summer Camp, Great Camps of Algonquin Park by Liz Lundell, Beverley Bailey, John Taylor and Robbie Sprules; Taylor Statten A Biography by C. A. M. Edwards, Talks to Counselors by Hedley S. Dimock and Taylor Statten, The Nurture of Nature: Childhood, Antimodernism and Ontario Summer Camps 1920-1955 by Sharon Wall and A History of the Taylor Statten Camps 1985 Masters Thesis by Donald Alexander Burry The-South-Tea-Echo-Issue-21-Summer-2023-Version-for-Tamakwa-website Camp Wabuno Brochure provided by Elizabeth Otto  The musical interlude is called Time Stands Still from Dan Gibson's Solitudes Lakeside Retreat CD. It is brought to you with the approval of Digital Funding LLC. Solitudes music can be found wherever you get your music streaming.

In this episode of Spooky Coop, Paul and Michelle guide listeners through three remarkable stories of human-to-animal shapeshifting, each coming from separate tribal backgrounds:1. Animals in the desert - An experience told to us by a Hopi Elder where, as a boy, he watched as his father, uncle and their friend perform a ceremony that transforms them. Plus, his father explains to him the reasons for pursuing  such an incredible feat of what can only be described as pure magic.2. The Miraculous Bear - From the Great Plains, this chilling account tells of a man changing into a massive bear in front of a group of tribal members during a special ceremony in the 1930's.3. Careful where you camp - A haunting experience by an Ojibwa man and his friends during a camping trip in Algonquin Park in Ontario, Canada. While out traveling through the broad wilderness of the park, Steve and his friends encounter a group of other-worldly bipedal creatures and are attacked during the night at their campsite.As Paul and Michelle unpack these incredible accounts, they discuss the shared themes of sacrifice, spirituality, and the thin boundary between the physical and the supernatural. Could these stories hold clues to a forgotten connection between humans and the animal world? Or are they cautionary tales, warning us of the consequences of tampering with forces beyond our understanding?Whether you're a skeptic or a believer, these stories will make you question just how much we truly know about the mysteries of the human spirit. So, grab a seat around the campfire and prepare to be both enchanted and unsettled.Come into the Coop and join the flock:• Follow us on social media for updates and spooky extras.• Have your own shapeshifting story? Share it with us at sendittospookycoop@gmail.com.• Don't forget to rate, review, and subscribe to keep the spooky vibes alive!Stay curious, stay spooky, and remember—some things are more than meets the eye! Episode Credits:Written, edited and produced by Paul & MichelleArtwork created by MIchelle & PaulMusic written and produced by I.C.D.LINKS: Listen to us here: SpookyCoop , find us @ spookycoop.com and follow us on: FaceBook | BlueSky | X (formerly Twitter) | Threads | Instagram | TikTok

Episode 66: Part II - How Logging in Algonquin Park has Evolved over a Century (1922-Present) This follow-on episode shares how logging dramatically changed in 1974 when the Algonquin Park Master Plan came into being and created the Algonquin Forest Authority. They were now responsible for all tree marking, harvesting, delivery to sawmill operators in the area, and later all of the silviculture efforts.  Key References: Donald Lloyd's Algonquin Harvest: The History of the McRae Lumber Company 2006 Roderick MacKay's Algonquin Park: A Place Like No Other 2018 Bob Lyons Whitney: Island in the Shield 1986 Algonquin Park Forest Authority's Annual Reports (2021-22 and 2022-23) Algonquin Park Forest Authority Website (www.algonquinforestry.on.ca) Maintaining the Balance in Algonquin Park: Algonquin Forest Authority and the Use of Portable Bridges – Forestry Success Stories 2015 The musical interlude for this episode is called Standing Tall and comes from Dan Gibson's Solitudes Breaking Through the Mist CD. It is brought to you with the approval of Digital Funding LLC. Solitudes music can be found wherever you get your music streaming.

Tom Thomson is a giant in Canadian art​. Now hundreds of his paintings created from trips to Georgian Bay and Algonquin Park will be on ​d​isplay at the Beaverbrook Art Gallery​. ​Jeanne Armstrong spoke to Ray Cronin and Sarah Milroy about how this exhibition came together.

Episode 65: Modern Day Lumbering 1919-Present For those of us who have been long-time summer residents of Algonquin Park, the issue of logging in the park has been a difficult one. Difficult because, though most people don't realize it, logging has always been an integral part of the Algonquin Park governing mandate. Though known today as a recreational paradise and wildlife refuge, those of us who have lived in and around the park are very much aware that allowing logging was one of the key compromises that was needed in order for the Park's creation in 1893. Though hard for us to visualize today, the idea of setting aside such a large expanse of land, so close to the industrial heartland of Ontario was truly a game-changing event, with many conflicting voices. Another parallel objective has always been economic support for the local communities of Eastern Ontario. In this episode, my goal is to focus narrowly on what has changed since the days of John Egan and J. R. Booth's logging efforts in the Park. I am going to try to look at the topic from four perspectives, namely: the cutting of the trees; the process of getting them to the sawmills; the actual sawing of the wood into lumber; and its marketing; and to the degree possible how this has all impacted the surrounding people and communities in general and the Whitney area in specific. Part 1 focuses on the 20th C, up until 1974, when the Algonquin Park Master Plan was issued. Key References: Donald Lloyd's Algonquin Harvest: The History of the McRae Lumber Company 2006 Roderick MacKay's Algonquin Park: A Place Like No Other 2018 George Warecki's Douglas Pimlott and the Preservationists in Algonquin Park 1958-1974  2021 Bob Lyons Whitney: Island in the Shield 1986 Algonquin Park Forest Authority's Annual Reports (2021-22 and 2022-23) Algonquin Park Forest Authority Website (www.algonquinforestry.on.ca) Maintaining the Balance in Algonquin Park: Algonquin Forest Authority and the Use of Portable Bridges – Forestry Success Stories 2015 The musical interlude for this episode is called Hardwood Haven and comes from Dan Gibson's Solitudes Breaking Through the Mist CD. It has been brought to your attention with the approval of Digital Funding LLC. Solitudes music can be found wherever you get your music streaming.

From Brian Ginsler, Ginsler Wealth CEO: "This past August, equity markets around the world experienced significant declines. Coincidentally, I chose the August long weekend to visit my favourite place on earth, Algonquin Park, where there is no cell reception. Or so I thought. In the very early hours of Monday (August 4) morning, a faint, single bar of service must have magically appeared, and a single Wall Street Journal news alert notification slipped through... "Japan's Nikkei Stock Average closed down 12.4%, it's biggest single-day percentage fall since 1987" "Oh shoot," I said to my wife, and decided that we better drive out of the resort to get stronger cellular reception to see what was going on. It wasn't pretty." Listen to this episode to find out what Brian did next... For the original transcript of this letter and to see weblinks and other media, please visit https://ginslerwealth.com/ginsler-wealth-third-quarter-2024-client-letter-do-nothing-edition/

While teaching up at the Lodge at Pine Cove this past weekend we came across lots of tracks and sign. Tons of Sawfly (wasplike insects) cocoons, some leaf miners, galls a plenty, Eastern Chipmunk (Tamias striatus) holes and feeding sign, Red Fox (Vulpes vulpes) and Moose (Alces alces) scat and lots more. But there was one bit of sign that was really annoying me… something I wasn't sure about. There were mussel shells laying about all along the rivers edge. Along the beach, the rocky cove, and all across the depths of the French River. They had all been opened, most split at the hinge, some cracked, many fragile and crumbling apart when put a bit of pressure on them. Someone had been feeding on these mussels for quite a few years it seemed, and I wanted to, maybe even needed to, figure this mussel mystery out. What kind of mussel whose remains I was finding? Who are the animals who live in this place that consume them? Who was leaving these middens about? Did they leave any other clues behind? Why couldn't I find anything? I really get into puzzles sometimes and this one made for a great distraction from the anxious excitement of teaching in a new place. This episode was recorded just after sunrise, along a wet winding trail in the mist of a gentle rain. It was awesome. Corrections : While I said something along the lines of Clams and Mussels are the same, I think this is incorrect. There seems to be differences based on structure of their shells and how they attach or burrow into substrates. To learn more :Bird Tracks and Sign by Mark Elbroch and Eleanor Marks. Stackpole Books, 2001.The Best of the Raven vol. 1 by Dan Strickland and Russ Rutter. The Friends of Algonquin Park, 1993.Animal Tracks of the Midwest by Jonathan Poppele. Adventure Publications, second ed, 2022.Peterson Field Guides: Mammals by William H. Burt and Richard P. Grossenheider.

Ready to embark on an angling adventure like no other? In this episode of Untamed Pursuits, Ridr regales us with tales from his epic journey through the Bolivian jungle, battling relentless insects and treacherous travel to hook the elusive Golden Dorado. As he shares the gritty and exhilarating details, Jamie's contrasting experience teaching young anglers in Ottawa provides a refreshing perspective on the world of fishing, showcasing the joys and challenges of nurturing the next generation of anglers.Then, we transport you to the breathtaking landscapes near the Andes Mountains, where pristine rivers and indigenous territories offer a rare glimpse into the habitat of the Golden Dorado. Learn about the unique fishing conditions during the Amazon's dry season and the electrifying experience of sight casting in crystal-clear waters. Plus, Ridr dives into the thrill of hunting pacu in the South American jungle, while recounting encounters with jaguars, pumas, and the infamous bullet ant, adding an extra layer of excitement to the adventure.For urban fishing enthusiasts, Jamie and Ridr offer valuable tips on fishing hotspots in cities like Montreal, Toronto, and New York City. From the shores of Algonquin Park to the bustling waters of Long Island, discover the diverse species and techniques that make city fishing so rewarding. They also highlight accessible half-day trips from major cities like Denver and Salt Lake City, emphasizing the importance of curiosity and continuous learning in becoming a successful angler. Whether you're casting in the jungle or the urban jungle, this episode is packed with inspiration and practical advice for every fishing enthusiast.

This week we discuss a brassiere boost, 2.22 and we find out if those tiddies are AI. Stories are as follows hunnays: - Part 2 of Goatman - Hannah gives us an Are You Afraid of the Dark inspired story about an abandoned campsite - A backpacking in Oregon story from Big S - (is it bigfoot?) - Hannah tells us another campfire story set in Algonquin Park, Canada - Big Suze tells a proper creepy glitch in time story and of course... - c.o.w. Creep of the Week is from Megan (and Simone) in Brisbane! TY HUNNAY - watch out for the red moon... We end with more telepathy - will Big Suze recieve the shape? xoxo JOIN US FOR OUR HALLOWEEN SHOW - 31ST OCT 2024 AT BUSH HALL, LONDON! TIX BELOW: https://linktr.ee/ghosthunspod JOIN OUR PATREON! EXTRA bonus episodes AND a monthly ghost hunt for just £4.50! Or £6 for AD-FREE EPS and weekly AGONY HUNS! We'll solve your problems huns! Sign up here: www.patreon.com/GhostHuns

Episode 62: Ontario Lumber Kings - John Egan Up until recently, I'd always thought that anyone who cared about Algonquin Park human history was already familiar with J. R. Booth and so never put any energy into building an episode around his life experiences. However, last summer I stumbled upon a 2018 biography by Michael McBane on John Egan.. In so doing, I discovered a whole new aspect of lumbering in the Ottawa Valley that I knew nothing about. The end result is this multi-part series about two of the most well-known of the Ottawa Valley Lumber Kings, namely John Egan and J. R. Booth. In my view both are tightly connected in history because as you all know J.R, Booth made his fortune by buying at auction Egan's timber limits in 1867. In this episode I'll focus on the life of John Egan. I think though I have no proof that, though of different generations, Booth may have seen Egan as a role model in the lumber industry The musical interlude for this episode is called Below a Towering Pine and comes from Dan Gibson's Solitudes Breaking Through the Mist CD. It is brought to you with the approval of Digital Funding LLC. Solitudes music can be found wherever you get your music streaming. Key References: Michael McBane's John Egan: Pine & Politics in the Ottawa Valley, published in 2018 H. T. Douglas'1969 talk to the Gatineau Valley Historical Society called An Irishman in Canada: John Egan R. Morgan's 1926 article in the Ottawa Journal History of the Early Ottawa Stephen Banks' A Polite Exchange of Bullets: The Duel and the English Gentlemen 1750-1850, published in 2010 Debates of the Legislative Assembly of the Province of Canada 1849 John McGregor‘s British America published in 1832 Roderick MacKay's Sprits of the Little Bonnechere 2nd Edition, published in 2016 David Lee's Lumber Kings and Shantymen, published in 2006 Dictionary for Canadian Biography, - John Egan search term Ottawa Branch of the Ontario Ancestors, 2020 discussion Robert Grace's The Irish in Quebec: An Introduction to the Historiography, published in 1993

SummaryIn this episode, Ron Hayes, Jason Loftus and Mark Raycroft's primary goal was to answer Listener questions, but they quickly get lost catching up on past trips and discussing the ethical questions around image manipulation and the newly developing confounding factor of AI-generated images on social media. They also delve into the challenges and opportunities presented by new technology in the field of photography. The recent trip conversation covers Mark's spring canoe adventure into Algonquin Park's interior and Jason and Ron's trip to Yellowstone, where they discuss the significance of shared nature experiences with family. But the piéce de résistance in this episode is the Listener questions which dive deep into the questions around photographers' facial hair and aging, photography ruts, GoPro use and more. They also get a little more serious and discuss positive social media interactions and the importance of sharing positive encounters in wildlife photography.TakeawaysMark's experiences on his canoe camping adventure in Algonquin ParkVisiting Yellowstone and sharing nature experiences with family can be a meaningful and memorable experience.The significance of introducing family members, especially children, to wildlife and nature experiences.The importance of ethical considerations in the photography industry and the impact of AI on photographers and their work.The impact of AI on stock images and the ethical implications of using AI-generated images. The use of AI in presentations is evolving and becoming more sophisticated.What's up with wildlife photographers and goatees?Photography ruts can be overcome by changing up the approach, taking a break, and trying something different.GoPros have a wide range of applications in wildlife photography, including underwater footage and camera trapping.Sharing positive wildlife encounters on social media can inspire others and promote respectful behavior in nature.Sound Bites"The use of AI in photography raises ethical questions about the authenticity of images and the ownership of AI-generated content.""Photographers must consider the implications of using AI tools and the ethical considerations of image manipulation in their work.""The conversation highlights the need for ongoing discussions and open-mindedness when it comes to the use of new technology in photography.""Like a book just slammed shut.""Are we going to have continue to have publishers and people that want to use images that will hold up the ethical side of things and want to continue to use real images that aren't AI altered? Because to me, that's the real scary part.""The most recent trip I've been on that we haven't chatted about was a quick little weekend run to Yellowstone.""Mark's probably been one of the biggest advocates of those tools on the podcast for quite some time now."Chapters00:00 Introduction and Mark's Rejuvenating Canoe Trip in Algonquin Park09:24 Exploring the Impact of AI on Social Media Photography34:41 The Impact of AI on Photography and Ethical Considerations42:36 Memorable Yellowstone Trip and Family Nature Experiences00:59:30 Listener Question: Is it imperative that guests have a goatee?01:06:00 Listener Question: If the 3 of you were in a footrace with a bear, who would get eaten first?01:02:21 Listener Question: What is something that each of you do when you find yourself in a photography rut?01:04:16 Listener Question: What is something that each of you do when you find yourself in a photography rut?01:08:52 Listener Question: I bought a GoPro. What sort of wildlife applications do they have?01:16:46 Promoting Positive Wildlife Encounters on Social Media

Send us your feedback about the episode!Brianna is a mortgage agent and educator living in Muskoka, Ontario.  She is the owner of Brianna Goslin Mortgages and host of Let's Talk About Money.  After spending 10 years as a teacher, Brianna began building her business in 2022 amidst the worst real estate market in recent history.  She learned the power of connection and community in a powerful way to develop her brand's outreach online and in person.  When she's not working on or in her business, catch Brianna and her family hiking, boating and exploring in Muskoka and Algonquin Park.Follow: @briannagoslinmortgages https://www.instagram.com/briannagoslinmortgages/LINKS: SIIP BrothPROMO CODE: BEAUTYBRANDPODCAST10Buzzsprout PodcastsStart for FREEDisclaimer: This post contains affiliate links. If you make a purchase, I may receive a commission at no extra cost to you.Subscribe for New Episodes Every Tuesday!Be sure to check us out on all our socials:Follow on Instagram: @beautybrandpodcasthttps://www.instagram.com/beautybrandpodcast/Subscribe on Youtube: @beautybehindthebrandpodcasthttps://www.youtube.com/channel/UCEl-qd38M4OgL8IghZ8ga9gWebsite:https://www.miskoka.com/beauty-behind-the-brandFollow our host on Instagram: @nicmanionhttps://www.instagram.com/nicmanion/

28-year-old Louisville native and NBA player D'Angelo Russell unveiled a new basketball court in Algonquin Park. He donated $100,000 to improve the courts at the park. This is where he developed his love of basketball and his skills. STORY: https://www.wdjx.com/nba-player-louisville-native-dangelo-russell-unveils-new-basketball-court-at-algonquin-park/

In this episode, Sachin interviews Dr. Penney Stringer on her journey from working as a family practice physician to achieving her purpose of bringing healing to groups of people through a mindful functional medicine practice. Listen for insight on following your heart in the flow of abundance as you help clients heal.   Key Takeaways: [1:01] Sachin introduces Dr. Penney Stringer, a trailblazer and mother of two children. Sachin welcomes Penney to Perfect Practice. [2:22] Dr. Penney Stringer started as a medical doctor and moved into functional medicine. After her residency, she worked in a community healthcare center outside Seattle, Washington, working with people on the margins. The clinic also had an acupuncturist and naturopaths.   [2:54] Dr. Stringer was a family medicine doctor. She referred everyone to the people she knew could help them: a nutritionist, a naturopath, an acupuncturist, and a counselor. There was also a dispensary. At the same time, she did hospital work associated with the clinic.   [3:36] All she had to do was write prescriptions. One day, she felt sick writing a prescription for a medicine she knew was harmful. A young patient with ankylosing spondylitis and bad back pain had been to a naturopath and had been given antibiotics and fish oil for a gut infection.   [4:08] The patient came back to Dr. Stringer and was all better. He didn't need the prescription for pain medication. After being treated for his gut infection, his autoimmune disease got better. Dr. Stringer questioned how that happened.   [4:26] About that time, she was invited by a naturopathic student to a Jeffrey Bland lecture in 2000, in Seattle. Jeffrey Bland is the “grandfather” of functional medicine. She started going to the free lectures Jeffrey Bland was giving.   [4:57] The first lecture was all about the microbiome and the biochemical pathways. It was what Dr. Stringer had thought she would learn in medical school. She went to her first training not too long after that. She says the rest is history.   [5:28] Dr. Stringer moved to a new town in the early 2000s. A doctor was practicing functional medicine there with a patient waitlist of five years. A nearby hospital funded the functional medicine wellness clinic and Dr. Stringer's salary at the clinic.   [6:43] Right out of her Institute for Functional Medicine AFMCP course in Boston, Dr. Stringer had a mentor, all the testing, all the supplements, all the patients lined up to see her, and a salary that she didn't have to worry about. She felt like it was what she was supposed to do.   [8:21] Dr. Stringer says it was a blessed situation in every way. It was all insurance-based so patients could get the best care with two dedicated physicians. The doctors were free to do what they believed in. It was not regular Western medicine. It was functional medicine from the start.   [8:47] The town is a nuclear toxic cleanup site. A lot of the jobs are in the cleanup. She helps with people's detox and hormone renewal analysis. Her first patient was full of heavy metals, just as she had learned in class. She feels like things are put in our path to see if we're awake.   [10:45] Dr. Stringer thinks that the key is paying attention. If you want to learn about something, request it from whoever is listening and see how long it takes to show up at your doorstep.   [11:52] Dr. Stringer talks about her sense of presence. She says her dad was a keen observer of nature. He was a biologist and environmental scientist with a doctorate in parasitology from Johns Hopkins. He viewed the world with a beginner's mind and asked profound questions. [12:25] Dr. Stringer tells how her father researched the chrysalis of the monarch butterfly, and presented papers on it around the world, all because he wanted to know what happened in the chrysalis. He asked the question and got a grant to find out. He's now in a documentary.   [13:35] One of Dr. Stringer's earliest memories with her dad is going in the woods. He would stoop down and turn over a rock and show his children the universe under the rock. He instilled in Penney some of that sense of presence.    [14:01] Dr Stringer spent her junior college year in Spain, studying Spanish literature and she saw daily siestas. When she came back, she learned transcendental meditation. After meditating, when she went outside, she could see every shade of green she had never seen.   [15:05] Dr. Stringer teams up with a master cranial sacral therapist to do a double hands-on with patients. They sit in silence with a patient for an hour.   [15:50] That has given Dr. Stringer so much insight and awareness about the process of healing and being present with another human being and holding the space for transformation, being there with their joy, pain, or release. It's not always comfortable.   [16:18] Dr. Stringer has to do cranial sacral herself to release what she observes in others. There's a lot of pain and suffering. Some of us are very in tune with that pain and suffering. It's important to do your own work to release what you observe so it doesn't get stuck in your body.   [17:28] If you are not dissipating the energy that's building up, you feel burned out or don't care as much. You feel tired. Dr. Stringer notices that her nervous system gets shaky. You could get headaches, upset stomach, or not sleep well, or more, from holding onto other people's energy.   [20:13] Dr. Stringer worked at the functional medicine office for about five years and then they went their separate ways. She had children. She went back and worked at the community health center so she didn't have to run a business when her babies were little.   [20:30] Then Dr. Stringer started her own practice. For 18-and-a-half years, she had done functional medicine in the insurance system. With Sachin's mentorship, she took the leap and jumped out of the insurance system, partially spurred by how the recent pandemic was handled.   [22:00] Sachin has been Dr. Stringer's only business growth mentor. She has done everything by her heart. She doesn't do or choose anything based on finances. Dr. Stringer thinks that when you have the right intention, things work out for you and abundance flows.   [22:46] Dr. Stringer says that Sachin has been a very helpful mentor for her, for thinking heart-centered but business savvy. Beyond finances, for Dr. Stringer, the bigger part of abundance is being in nature every day as part of her ability to do her work.   [23:32] Dr. Stringer had another important mentor in medical school at Georgetown, Dr. Jim Gordon, who runs the Center for Mind Body Medicine. He's a Harvard-trained psychiatrist and an acupuncturist. Dr. Gordon informed me so much about the way Dr. Stringer thinks about healing.   [24:09] Dr. Stringer's purpose is healing in community. The reason she joined the mentorship was to solidify doing groups and making the community the hallmark of her dynamic and system. Dr. Gordon's training in mind-body medicine is the basis of all of Dr. Stringer's groups.   [24:45] Dr. Stringer says Sachin is a great mentor. She feels that learning business and healing are not that different and that they can all be together.    [25:12] Dr. Stringer recommends learning to facilitate mind-body skills groups as an eloquent and beautiful model for being a facilitator but also a participant in the group. It's mindfulness-based training.   [25:35] Dr. Stringer had another pivotal shift when she went to ECO Conference. It helped her reframe the way she thinks about barriers to healing and how to address toxins and stealth bugs.   [26:17] Dr. Stringer speaks of a book that was pivotal to her, The Nature Fix, by Florence Williams which documents a positive biochemical effect in the brain that PTSD sufferers receive from being in nature for three days. Sachin relates it to the wellness modality of forest bathing.   [29:02] Nature is a powerful teacher and powerful medicine for our sanity. Sachin suggests prescribing forest bathing to your patients and clients. It could be a missing link for a lot of people's healing journeys.   [29:23] Dr. Stringer notes a recent NYTimes article on the recommendations of nature for health benefits. They recommend spending 20 minutes in nature, three days a week, plus five hours a month of longer hiking, plus going off-grid for three days a year.   [30:19] Sachin is going on a three-day snowshoeing hike with his brother and a guide in Algonquin Park where the lake freezes over. They'll have a sauna tent and bathe in a hole in the ice in the water. He's super stoked about it.   [30:55] Being in nature is such an important thing we should all be doing. He hopes what you learn from this conversation is to spend some more time in nature.   [31:41] Dr. Stringer brings up the benefits of fasting. She is on the second day of a three-day ProLon mimicking fast and she feels an amazing shift. It's amazing to get into a fasting state. It's phenomenal. Sachin notes that It's an easy modality to integrate into your practice.   [33:44] Dr. Stringer recommends bodywork; worrying with the subtle energy of the body, as another modality. She sticks to the elemental, basic things.   [39:43] Dr. Stringer thinks medical physicians and professionals pairing up with health coaches is a no-brainer.   [40:12] If you are interested in setting up a group-based program, Dr. Stringer says to follow what interests you and lights you up in terms of the kinds of patients you want to work with, and the setting. She believes that word of mouth is always the best way to grow a practice.   [40:35] If you want to do groups, start doing them. Don't wait for the perfect system; no one really has the perfect system. Just start doing groups of five, six, or 10 people. It's an efficient way to teach and to be compensated. Sometimes you have to start with individual people.   [41:23] Dr. Stringer doesn't have a referral system. That will be the next phase of what she does to reach more people. So far, it's 90% word of mouth.   [41:36] Offerings of teachings and master classes are a good way for people to know that you know what you're talking about, that you care, and that your heart's in it. Dr. Stringer has done master classes for the past three years and it has been great.   [41:58] Now she is doing more in-person things, which are the most fulfilling for her. Getting in front of people and being generous with your offerings to share your knowledge will come back to benefit you. Generosity is reciprocal.   [43:04] Dr. Penney Stringer says this is her year for saying, “yes” to everything. For the next four weekends, she is traveling to visit friends and family and to a breathwork conference with James Nestor.   [44:34] Dr. Penney Stringer learned of the James Nestor breathwork conference from Sachin, who says going to that event was one of the highlights of his life.   [44:45] Dr. Penney Stringer is also planning to go with a functional medicine friend to a nature-based three-day retreat for women in menopause.   [45:09] Sachin thanks Dr. Stringer for spending time with him and his audience today and sharing her wisdom. There are great takeaways of things we can do in nature, with self-care, keeping things simple in our practice, and following our hearts, with the highest integrity.   [46:02] To learn more about Dr. Stringer's practice, go to PenneyStringerMD.com.   [46:32] Penny's last words: “Follow your heart and trust that you are in the abundance flow.”   Mentioned in this episode Perfect Practice Live Dr. Penney Stringer Jeffrey Bland The Nature Fix: Why Nature Makes us Happier, Healthier, and More Creative, by Florence Williams ProLon   More about your host Sachin Patel How to speak with Sachin Go one step further and Become The Living Proof Perfect Practice Live sachin@becomeproof.com To set up a practice clarity call and opportunity audit   Books by Sachin Patel: Perfect Practice: How to Build a Successful Functional Medical Business, Attract Your Ideal Patients, Serve Your Community, and Get Paid What You're Worth The Motivation Molecule: The Biological Secrets To Eliminate Procrastination, Skyrocket Productivity, and Get Sh!t Done   Tweetables:   “I feel like things are put in our path to see if we're awake and see if we're paying attention and I think that can happen with your patients and with your process as a healer and as a business owner.” — Dr. Penney Stringer   “If you want to learn about something, request it from whoever is listening and see how long it takes to show up at your doorstep.” — Dr. Penney Stringer    “I did all this training so I can teach people how to eat and breathe, and touch nature? How is that possible? … That's what gets people better!” — Dr. Penney Stringer   “I would say if you want to do groups, start doing them. Don't wait for the perfect system; no one has the perfect system. Just start doing groups of five, six, or 10 people.” — Dr. Penney Stringer    “Generosity is reciprocal.” — Dr. Penney Stringer    Dr. Penney StringerIFM  

In this episode, Jesse and Andrew answer fishing-related questions submitted by podcast listeners. They discuss modifications to Jesse's flat back canoe, their favourite topwater baits, the benefits of guided fishing trips, and their preferred wake-up times for fishing. They also cover some tips for fishing in Algonquin Park, and their experiences being bitten by fish with teeth. Support the showWe appreciate your support in making this one of Ontario's fasting growing fishing podcasts! This show is ad free for your listening pleasure, but if you feel inclined to help us cover some of the cost incurred in producing this weekly show and be entered for all the monthly giveaways (some exclusions apply) please click the support show link

Episode 411 ~ January 4, 2024 Podcast Info / Topics Sean spent New Years up at Mew Lake in Algonquin Park and he brought his canoe just in case All the shows we love to attend are coming up soon, so it is time to plan your visits If you are into folktales, have you […]

Episode 411 ~ January 4, 2024 Podcast Info / Topics Sean spent New Years up at Mew Lake in Algonquin Park and he brought his canoe just in case All the shows we love to attend are coming up soon, so it is time to plan your visits If you are into folktales, have you […]

(Dec 13, 2023) Hiking 350 miles from the Adirondacks to Algonquin Park in the footsteps of a famous moose; after Monday's earthquake near Canton, one geologist encourages listeners to report what they felt (or didn't) to the US Geological Survey; Tupper Lake artist Brenda Baker collects clothes from local farmers for a 2024 art installation

(Dec 13, 2023) Last summer, a Canadian environmentalist hiked 350 miles from the Adirondacks to Algonquin Park in the footsteps of a famous moose who did the same. The story behind Alice the Moose, and why she matters for wildlife protection. Also: SUNY's chancellor is one of the highest paid education officials in the country.

Join us for a thought-provoking conversation with Laura Gilmour, the owner of Wild Muskoka Botanicals.Laura's journey, from the fields of her grandparents' farm to the landscape of Muskoka, has been a lifelong exploration of nature's bounty. Guided by an Italian mentor and her innate curiosity, Laura's love for wild plants blossomed into a fascination with their culinary and medicinal potential.With a foundation in Environmental Technology and years of hands-on experience in sustainable agriculture, herbalism, and permaculture design, Laura brings a wealth of knowledge to the table. Her internships on permaculture farms taught her not only about gardening but also about wild food harvesting, herbal medicine preparation, mushroom cultivation, and animal husbandry.Wild Muskoka Botanicals embodies a commitment to eco-conscious principles. Their artisanal wild foods and cocktail mixers are crafted from locally foraged ingredients, and the process is rooted in sustainability and ecological integrity. Based at the Wild Spirit Permaculture Homestead, on the western edge of Algonquin Park, this venture is all about rekindling our connection with the natural world and reimagining health and wellness through the integration of wild plants and traditional herbal remedies into our modern lives.Laura Gilmour shares her deep botanical knowledge, insights, and the inspiring journey that led her to create Wild Muskoka Botanicals. Wild Muskoka Botanicals Socials:Website: https://wildmuskoka.com/Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/wildmuskoka/YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCqURkgSLKR5FhrEsNJMpGww?view_as=subscriberSupport the showMy Self Reliance YouTube Channel- https://youtube.com/@MySelfReliance?si=d4js0zGc5ogYvDtOShawn James Youtube Channel - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC5L_M7BF5iait4FzEbwKCAgMerchandise - https://teespring.com/stores/my-self-reliance

Episode 393 ~ August 31, 2023 Podcast Info / Topics Derek an the family took a canoe trip into the northern part of Algonquin Park. Fun may, or may not, have been had by all. We love finding out our listeners heard something on an episode and went and checked it out for themselves. It […]

Segment 2, August 12th, 2023 The Carolina Outdoors is going international with a call to Ontario.  Randy Mitson has enjoyed working, playing & being close to Algonquin Park.  This natural lake setting north of Toronto has some of the most fantastic scenery and canoe paddling opportunities. Whether it is a day trip or a multi-day trip. this is one of the best sightseeing places in the world. Mitson provides a peek into this wonderful nature world and offers advice on how we can enjoy it and what we can expect. Bill Bartee from Charlotte's Patagonia dealer, Jesse Brown's, leads the discussion.  Jesse Brown's has operated as sponsor of the Carolina Outdoors and has been a local, Charlotte outfitter for travel and outdoor things for the past 53 years.

Episode 390 ~ August 10, 2023 Podcast Info / Topics Athena went on her first backcountry canoe trip in Algonquin Park and it went quite well A Roman ship and 3 canoes have be discovered in Serbia Putting paddling restrictions on a loch have had a positive impact on a local bird species The UK […]

8/5/23 - Nate Smith is a paddler and outdoorsman from Muskoka, Canada who loves canoes and the places they take us. Follow him on Instagram and youtube @natemuskoka. We talk paddling, Fishell and Kettlewell Canoe Paddles, why the wilderness calls to us, Muskoka Canada, Algonquin Park, a boat is freedom, Jim Baird, Ted Baird, @AlexisOutdoors, finding portage routes from old hand drawn maps, @PineMartin Youtuber, Peace of mind from living near water, Snow in Yosemite National Park, Lake Trout, Brook Trout, the challenge and ever learning process of fishing, finding the right camping gear for you, mummy sleeping bags suck, canoeing vs backpacking, Boundary Waters Canoe Area and more. Subscribe now for more stories of adventureGuided Canoe Trips & more @ www.buffaloroamer.comFollow Will @Buffalo_RoamerBrought to you by:Fishell Paddles - Makers of Fine, Handcrafted Wooden Canoe PaddlesTry a Fishell paddle and FEEL the difference. Each paddle is handmade by Greg Fishell at his shop in Flagstaff, Arizona. Will uses a Ray Special model, and outfits all of his trips with Fishell Paddles as well. Use code WILL at checkout for a free paddle hanger w/ purchase of new paddle!SREgear.comFamily Owned & Operated Outdoor Gear Shop in Black River Falls, Wisconsin. Great gear, great prices, unbeatable customer service. Use code WILL at checkout for 10% off your first order. Interested in advertising or partnering with Buffalo Roamer Outdoors? Contact Will here: buffaloroamer.com/contactThis show is part of the Spreaker Prime Network, if you are interested in advertising on this podcast, contact us at https://www.spreaker.com/show/4764707/advertisement

Picture it, the turn of the millennium, and the dawn of the online music revolution. jD just shelled out his last few dollars on The Tragically Hip's seventh studio record, Music at Work, unaware that it would mark the end of an era for him - his final first-day purchase. From there we take a deep dive into the album's reception, its relevance today, and the debate if it was a step out of The Hip's comfort zone.Make sure to get your tickets for Longslice Presents: Getting Hip to the Hip - An Evening for the Downie Wenjack Fund today! https://bit.ly/GHTTHTicketsTranscriptTrack 1:[0:00] Welcome to getting hip to the hip. I'm JD. I'm here as always with Pete and. [0:06] Tim How are you fellas doing this fine day? Track 3:[0:10] Doing great doing great Just getting it going and excited to be here and see a couple of my favorite dudes over the interwebs. Track 2:[0:19] I Am doing supercalifragilisticexpialidocious to fucking discuss this fucking record Oh, wow. Track 3:[0:27] Oh, boy. Track 2:[0:28] Oh, boy. Track 3:[0:29] So... Fasten your seatbelts, folks. Track 1:[0:31] Fasten your seatbelts, folks. Track 2:[0:32] What does that mean? Spoons, plural. Spoons full of sugar. Not just fucking... Not just one. Track 1:[0:39] The Disney references are just rolling out. Track 3:[0:41] Jeez. Track 1:[0:44] Well, we're here today to talk about the 2000 release, June 2000, the seventh studio record by seminal Canadian rock band The Tragically Hip. Music at work. Before we go into our vaunted segment of song by song, let's just get a general sense of what you guys thought of this record. Where you listened to it, what you were exposed to, how it formed over time. What do you think there, Pete? Track 2:[1:21] I'll be brief, because I want to really dive into the songs, too, but I will say, I listened to this record at work. Well, I was at my computer. Come on, Tim, did you want that one? Were you waiting to use that one? Track 3:[1:42] No, it was your turn. It was your turn. A lot of listeners right now are like, oh my god, we're out of here. Track 2:[1:52] Listen to it in the car. The sound system in the car made it really pop. But I will say, probably the best place to listen to it was on runs. It was just... I love the record. I really, really enjoyed this record profusely. So I'll say that. I'll leave it there. All right. Track 1:[2:21] Mr. Leiden. Track 3:[2:22] Yeah, so I listened to this. I had a bunch of headphone-based physical therapy the past week, and I pretty much had it on for all of that, which was very much focused movement and definitely could consider audio. And it was it was pretty good. It took me back to, I think, mostly to Live Between Us, like if we're gonna go apples to apples or apples and oranges throughout their discography thus far, for many reasons. And there's some songs on here I really like a lot. There's a couple that I thought were pretty different, like definitely a step out than past albums. And yeah, at one point I thought this might be my favorite so far in our work to get to this point. I thought this might be one of my favorite albums so far, but I'm still questioning it. I'm still thinking that there might be another one out there in the future that I just I Give you know nine point five two or whatever. Album Rating and Discussion on Critics' OpinionsTrack 1:[3:35] It might be Gotcha Yeah, this was rated relatively low by all music and what? Track 3:[3:43] Big fucking surprise They're like the professor that doesn't give a is you know, yeah, yeah negative five out of five I I have a little bit of a vibe with that, but I understand sometimes there's a great piece of work out there that still doesn't get the accolades it deserves, and that happens so often. Track 1:[4:06] Yeah. Well, shall we get into it? Track 3:[4:10] Yeah. Track 2:[4:12] What did they give it, by the way, J.D.? I'm curious. Track 1:[4:14] Three out of five. Track 3:[4:15] Three, right? Three out of five. So just some quick research on the title that I found of the album, Music at Work. So from what I read, it's poking fun at a rock station in Canada, 100.5 FM. Yeah. E-Zed Rock or Easy Rock, whichever. Track 4:[4:38] You went with Zed first. You're so Canadian. Oh my God. So Canadian. Track 3:[4:45] Music at Work was their tagline, you know. It was like, imagine this kind of 80s looking logo in essence like a corporatized Van Halen Firebird Camaro looking Easy Rock 100.5 FM and underneath at music at work. That makes sense. But I thought maybe, yeah, I thought maybe the hip tagging, you know, taking this tagline was perhaps their, I guess, you know, maybe even, I think it was their stab at back at clear channel. I thought like Like, these guys, yeah, yeah, yeah, I thought these guys are still talking. Track 2:[5:36] Was that a Clear Channel station? Track 3:[5:38] Rock and roll. Track 2:[5:39] I'm sure they were. Track 3:[5:40] Dude. Track 1:[5:41] It's a heavy format. Track 3:[5:42] I didn't look it up, but if you look at everything about it, I'm sure it is. Track 2:[5:48] And at that time, dude, nowadays it's like, it's not even a competition. Like Clear Channel owns the Airwaves, but I remember at that time it was like, you were We were starting to realize that every station was a clear channel station. Track 1:[6:02] Yeah. Yeah. Track 3:[6:04] Yeah. So, that was kind of some brief history on the album title. The first song, you know, title track, album name. The First Single from the RecordTrack 1:[6:40] You I think it's a, little bit of a, a That chives. Yeah, it was the first single from the record too. So okay. Yeah, it dropped a couple weeks before the record came out. Track 2:[7:33] Well, not to correct Tim, but I'm going to do it. Do it. It is not the title track. Ah, yes. The name of the track is actually my music at work. Yeah, interesting. And I didn't... No, no, no. Track 3:[7:54] I was really close, man. Track 2:[7:56] You were close, too. Track 3:[7:58] You know, okay. The influence of the... The Groove and Tightness of the New RecordTrack 2:[8:07] I mean, if I picture myself as I have now, listen, have listened to the previous hip records, anticipating this new record coming out, hearing this first track on this new record and just like putting it on volume up, start my car, light my cigarette, open my Red Bull, whatever the fuck I was doing in the year 2000. And just fucking wow. I mean, they must have just been like, fuck yes. I mean, this song, it was, I wrote this down. This is one of the things I wrote down in the notes. The song was born in the pocket. Like when you talk about when you're in the pocket, musically, I think we all know what that means. I'm sure most of the listeners know what it means. But it's just, it's in the pocket. It's just the groove, the rhythm, the fucking instruments, everything is just fucking tight and it fits, gourd sounds fucking great. It's a great build after the La La La with the soft guitar. Oh God, I've got to eventually get there. Track 3:[9:29] I'll just quickly add in there the La La La. Track 2:[9:30] Johnny Cain? Track 3:[9:31] Okay, go, go, go. Track 2:[9:32] Go ahead. No, no. You go ahead. Track 3:[9:35] I was going to fill in for you. The La La La part for this one, I mean that was new. We haven't had La La La's yet in soft. No, not really. Right. Track 2:[9:42] No, no, yeah But but Johnny Johnny Faye. Yeah drummer. Yeah Really just fucking builds it into where the song you know starts to go at that point and then there's a There's a Lord of the Rings reference in there. I think I feel like it is I took it as what cuz he says middle of the earth. Ah Which I'm always My record store that I grew up going to in down in California, now out of business, was called Middle Earth. And it was a fucking great record store. This is the type of record store where dollars to fucking donuts, man. If you were there in the 90s, they were like, if you went up to the front and asked this guy Larry for a recommendation, he would have fucking slipped you a hip record. Hands down. I was just too scared to fucking go up to Larry cause he was cool. Larry had a picture of David Bowie where David Bowie was smiling, not Larry. Track 1:[10:47] Wow. Track 2:[10:48] Like that goes to show you how cool fucking Larry was. Track 3:[10:51] You know what? I can't tell you how many. Stories I've heard about like interviews with artists who had that record store They went to growing up and how walking up to the clerk whoever was working was like the most intimidating thing Like you like you like so many artists would walk I've read it about it so many times Walking a record store with like kind of tail between your legs and you're afraid to purchase what you've picked For being ridiculed or anything, right? It's just it was like the most I mean think about it back You know in the 80s or 70s or 90s like going to Tower Records or wherever you go and grabbing that Item and walking up to this like hipper than thou person Clerk and trying to make over just yeah Yeah, this was before that it was common where people had like, you know Sleeves of tattoos and like ear and nose piercings like you saw somebody up there at the front with a fucking a bar through the nose a two sleeves of tattoos, and green hair. Track 2:[11:56] Everybody's got fucking green hair nowadays, right? And you're just like. Track 1:[12:00] Makes me sick. Track 2:[12:01] No, but you know what I'm saying? Like, you know, my nephew's got green hair for crying out loud. But like, I don't give a shit, you know, I'm telling my nephew what I'm listening to, but if, you know, back in the 90s, I walked up to the counter and saw somebody like that, that I was like dude I am not bringing up anything that's on the radio right yeah that's so cool that's so cool that you had this this tragically hip frame of reference from back in the record store days I mean I completely don't have that I had a bumper sticker in college you know of my apartment complex neighbor so. The Second Song: Messy and IncoherentTrack 3:[19:00] Yeah. Track 2:[19:00] Do you want to? I don't know. I mean, I'm ready to fucking blow up in there. You know what I'm saying? Okay. The fucking the second song. I mean, it's hard to top this second song. I mean, it is when I first heard it. I loved how it faded in from the first track. And then he just starts saying this is what the fuck is Tiger the Lion? Track 1:[19:30] I don't. Track 2:[19:30] I'm just saying the first time I heard it, right. And I did my research on it, which I kind of regret. I gotta stop looking at lyrics. Once I stopped looking at lyrics, these songs really open up for me. Track 1:[19:41] You can't stop though. It's gorg, right? Like, you know? Track 2:[19:45] No, but he eventually started listening to them and internalizing them, which is better for me than reading them. Either way, this fucking song, it just opens up so messy and incoherent and I'm like, what the fuck? I mean, again, putting myself in the position of a hit fan when they hear this for the first time. They're like, is this gorgeous going off on his fucking, you know, he wrote some crazy poetry and he's just, you know, free-forming it right now. What's he doing? You know, but the The instrumentation on it, it's so well thought out. Track 4:[20:24] Right? It's... Track 2:[20:26] I love how, because for me as a musician, my writing style is pretty incoherent. A lot of people say, like, lyrics wise, my shit doesn't make sense, which is, you know, it's not like I'm going for it, but it's just, it is what it is. But the John Cage quote? Track 3:[20:45] Yeah. Track 2:[20:46] Oh, fuck. I mean, I'm a huge John Cage, but just all about who that guy was as an individual who brought his brain to art and music. There's a melodic drop down, the purpose is not unique. I just, I don't know, dude, I did a little bit of research on the meaning of the song about it being like a reference to fighter pilots. Did you get that too, Tim? Track 3:[21:21] Yep, yep, yep. Big time. There's been so many World War II references that I just, you know, I instantly went to that, which I have a emotional family connection to World War II, so that hits heavy for me. Track 2:[21:36] Two-way radio, yeah. But, uh, this, line... JD, I thought of you when I read this. But not to get order from chaos. Tell you how to create simply wait to your life like, like, there's, there, there is no order. Yeah, there's no other shoe that were, you know, and I don't know, dude, this fucking song is, I still can't fucking and unwrap it and make sense of it. It's just a fucking banger. Yeah. What a song. Living in the Music: Appreciating Art without Analyzing LyricsTrack 3:[22:15] I mean, Pete, as a, maybe you can clarify a little bit for me, as a songwriter, you, when this one came on and you listened through it and you say that you, sometimes you don't want to research lyrics just so you can live in it in your head as much as possible, right? Is that kind of your sentiment? Right? Track 2:[22:34] I mean, I think, I think the lyrics, Because I think that what you, for me, this is me personally, what I tend to do is, is rather than physically listen to the song, which is what the medium is meant to do for listening, I'm reading what I'm listening to. And so it starts to, I start to make judgment upon what I'm listening to based on what I'm reading. Which is never like there's so many weird fucking lyrics in this fucking record And I'm sure we can talk about it till the cows come home Yeah But it did me it did more damage for me in the beginning because it was like I'm not fucking getting this I'm not getting this and then I just was like, okay I put the lyrics down and then I just started to listen to it incessantly. Okay, this shit's fucking making sense. Okay. Got it and then not to Not to bury the lead, but I mean if you don't get the fucking Comfortably Numb, Rob Baker literally Channeling the fucking David Gilmour in this fucking song. I mean What do you I mean, what are we doing here? There's one drop where it doesn't it doesn't go down to the next chord that you just feel like it's like going to country, but it doesn't go there and it's just... [24:01] Yeah, his guitar tone, everything about it. He's using the Strat on this. [24:06] Fucking it's great song. Sorry. Yeah. Amazing song. Track 3:[24:10] For me to go from music at work to this was like, whoa, this is, you know, if this is second gear for taking off in the car, and it's like, what did our car just change into? Because the song is, Because the song is its own beast. Man, me and my dad jokes, dad puns, tiger, the lion. So I mean, this is the longest song on the album. It's 5 and 1 1⁄2 minutes. And I love songs that can hit 5, 6, 7 minute mark, and you don't even know they're that long. Track 1:[24:47] Yeah. Track 3:[24:48] Like sometimes you hear a song, and you're like, god damn, These guys just wanted this to be the longest song ever, and they succeeded. But this one, it's very, no, it doesn't feel that long. And I think, Pete, you touched on most of it. But the themes, I guess I should say, I don't read the lyrics or look into the lyrics until I've listened to one of these albums in great length or many times. So I try not to pay attention to the lyrics. If I'm listening to it in the car and I'm at a stop for too long, then I can actually hit the whatever on Spotify to make the lyrics pop up. I'll check it out for a minute. But I try to live in my head for as long as possible, I think, kind of like you, Pete, to just get deep into the song. [25:44] The John Cage references. I mean, there's so much in this song in both that theme and kind of World War II themes, but the kind of two big takeaways for me were this song is about challenging the listener and society and anyone to appreciate, like, nature, art in life, or just art, or like literature or whatever it might be. And if you live your life without recognizing any art form, then you're like a fucking robot, you know? That's kind of, that's what the song was about to me in that regard, the John Cage regard and all of that. The his radio goes silent, you know that like I imagined this as like World War two airplane Pilot, you know the his engines destroyed And he's just falling from the sky, you know, like and stops working. This is where my head my engine stops working You have this like last bit of life where you hear the wind the radio stops working You know, you're on your way down. That's kind of where I went with. Track 1:[27:03] Whoa, that's heavy, man. Introduction and Researching Band MembersTrack 3:[27:04] Yeah, that's kind of how it felt to me. Okay, so I did some research around who else is playing with this band. Because we've talked about, at least the past album, I've been talking about, you know, who's that on backup singing blah blah blah blah blah. Right. So with this, I guess I would have talked about this at the beginning, but with this song we have a guy named Chris Brown from Toronto on keys, right? So he toured, He recorded and toured with the band with this album. He came from a band or was in a band called, Bourbon Tabernacle Choir. Yep, you got it. And from the 80s and 90s, which I heard of that, man. Yeah, which I didn't know an ounce about until I kind of did this research. So finally, I was making some headway with this album to hear who else we have contributing, which is an obvious impact to me as a listener to hear kind of extra elements going on. But this song, man, it could be its own album. That's what I thought. Like this song, this song on a 7-inch on one side, like it's hand me that. I'll pay 20 bucks for it. Like let's go. It's fucking that good. Track 1:[28:30] Yeah, I agree. Track 3:[28:32] Lake Fever, the next one. This is where I was like, okay, maybe we're shifting gears into like this perfect love song or forlorn love or is this a song about loss or remembrance or you know what is this what is this going on there's amazing prose within this song like was the brief dude seriously i knew pete was just like i knew his heart was melting for this It was probably driving down, you know, here's Pete, everybody in Spain, in his awesome vehicle. I don't even know what it is, and I don't want to know until I visit him someday, so no spoilers, J.D. But here's Pete in his awesome vehicle driving down some coastal highway in fucking Spain. This is a dude from the LBC, right? And this song comes on, and there's tears coming from Pete's face on this beautiful sunny day. It's like, I, I, you know, I'm, I'm hearing this song during fucking physical therapy. Therapy just gone. [29:42] Is this a wedding song or is it a funeral song or do I want this at my wake or do I play this for Amy on her next anniversary? Like what the fuck is this emotional song going on in place three after my music at work and after Tiger the Lion we have this Lake Fever. It's like what the hell so yeah it was this you know this this is that third gear song where i'm like okay, let's see let's see where this is gonna go what's this about is it oh yeah okay maybe it is about the cholera outbreak in toronto in 1834 oh fuck god damn it okay that's what it's about guess i'm I'm not playing at my anniversary. No, not playing at next April 14th, honey. Track 1:[30:38] But it's more than that because the protagonist is regaling his potential lover with that story. Like the song isn't necessarily about like fever. It's like this couple are walking in the woods about to go, you know, have sex. And he's so nervous that he's trying to like, you know, talk to this girl and he's telling her, well, there was this time in Toronto that there was a sewer back up and cholera got in the way and it went all the way up to Ottawa and near Kingston and it was terrible, many people died and she's just like, hurry, just hurry. Just Coital Fury, you know, like, yeah, that wine, man. Track 2:[31:26] Fuck, it's good. Dude, you know, I tell you, it's it's funny because I think it's just the Canadian. I mean, last week, Tim and I both heard the rush in fireworks for last week's a record but you know I started to hear the first thing I heard and now I like don't hear it at all but the first thing I heard with this song was the percussion feeling very once again very Alanis, right wow but yeah put that all kind of behind it's kind of all in the past dude the glockenspiel which I think they're using and like the keyboard effect over when he says the the word courage is I'm just you're right Tim I'm driving down the fucking coast in the mountainous windy roads of Malaga Spain and just fucking crying with my wind blowing, my air blowing in the wind. Cigarette out the window, the arm just like, Oh, just fucking loving this. [32:42] We're going to get into it a little bit more, because I because there's a there's a couple of songs on this record. And I remember I don't know what record it was, oh, it was, was Troll Dan House that I referred to as the Tragically Hips Xerope. Track 1:[33:01] Yes. Track 3:[33:02] Right, right. Track 2:[33:05] But, do you know what this record is? Track 1:[33:07] Yeah. Track 2:[33:07] And it's funny because this record actually came out before the record I'm going to reference. And I'll tell you why. Track 1:[33:14] All right, hit me. Track 2:[33:15] This is fucking the Tragically Hips Yankee Hotel Foxtrot. All of the fucking instrumentation on it, all the pianos, the echoey pianos, a lot of the guitars. It's so fucking Wilco, man. And so I started thinking to myself, well, you know, what, what the fuck did, what, you know, what do we, well, I'll get into it, I'll get into the next one. Track 1:[33:44] We'll go. Give her. Track 2:[33:46] Yeah, we're going to put it down. So this song, there's a line in there saying the United States of ricochet. Something something happy in way. You know what I'm talking about, JD? Track 1:[34:02] I don't know the lyric offhand though, sorry. Track 2:[34:04] Great fucking line. And I'm getting very like, ashes of American flags like references to because I feel like I feel like Gord was really, um, getting, like, a lot of the shit that he focused on was the, God, the phrase, the term I'm trying to look for, like the plight of Canadians. Okay. Track 3:[34:30] I got it. I got it here if you want me to read it. Track 2:[34:33] Yeah, you want to read it, Tim? Track 3:[34:35] Yeah, it's just United States of Ricochet from the Boardwalk to the Appian Way, which I... From the Boardwalk to the Appian Way, yeah, that's what I'm looking for. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Track 2:[34:42] Diamond Files, Corporate Wraves, you know. So he's, I feel like up until this point, he's made a lot of references to not just the indigenous folks up north, in terms of, you know, what he's talked about, and what I know he's eventually going to talk more about. But I started to think like, God, what other band do I know that did that? And like, that's kind of where Wilco went, you know, they had Uncle Tupelo and then AM, which was their first record. And being there were kind of like a soft watered down version of, of that country vibe of Uncle Tupelo. And then when they hit Yankee Hotel, it was like, Whoa, what the fuck is this? This is not the same band. I remember hearing and I got the same vibe. And so I, anyway, I Googled and started doing a little research, come to find out. So I read Jeff Tweedie's. Memoir, which is a great book, you'll get through it in a day, man. It's called Let's Go So We Can Get Back. And he references them on tour with Tragically Hip during the Another Roadside Attraction tour. Track 1:[36:03] That's right. The third one. That's right. Yeah, yeah. Wilco's Similarities to Other Bands and Songwriting InfluencesTrack 2:[36:07] Yeah. And just this record came out a year before Yankee Hotel. So I don't know what if they were trading demos back and forth or they were playing music together on Tour and but fuck man. I mean so many similarities with this record and that record interest so many Do you feel you might catch my drift here? Track 3:[36:32] But do you feel like? When you hear other bands and are reminded of Wilco do you feel like Wilco has just borrowed so much from other bands or do you feel like I'm not gonna we're not going to turn this into a Wilco podcast by the way or do you feel like Wilco like really do you feel like Wilco just absolutely stand on their own as songwriters because I mean that's there that's like to me songwriting music you know what I mean yeah I know what you mean um it's a good question and I'll answer it as short as possible because I think This is something you could fucking have a garage with a, you know, half ounce and fucking go on forever. Track 2:[37:17] But I think Jeff Tweedy is an amazing songwriter, and he'd probably be the first one to admit that they've taken so much from other people. But I think that that band, especially when they went in, their record, two records after they did Yankee Hotel was a record called Sky Blue Sky. When they really got into that, they were just like... They were at the top of their fucking game. and they they they knew how to um, but it's It's hard to say man. I mean It's a great question tim because I you could say the same for Tragically him who are they both big time? Track 3:[38:05] Yeah, we've had so many references. Track 2:[38:07] I don't think I don't think rob baker would he be the last person to say he wasn't fucking fucking playing the exact notes that Gilmore played on fucking comfortably on that guitar solo or on Tiger the Lion. But it's not like you're saying, oh, you're stealing. It's like, it's an homage. It's also working it into a song that is not that song is, you know, you do it all. I've been writing a tune this week that is a is a indie rock tune adapted from the fucking Opening theme of the one of the Legend of Zelda songs. So cool. And am I stealing from Koji Kondo? Yes but It's in so I look at it more as an inspiration. Track 3:[38:54] Well, I mean they I mean all all artists, you know are inspired from every direction I just I don't I don't want to get into it too deep. Track 1:[39:01] I just went from no Writers I think good songwriters Make it almost Like a magician, you know, like a good songwriter. You don't see the sleight of hand. You don't see the Palming you don't see it like they're absolute pros and they stand on their own But of course you can't help but be affected by what you are exposed to and what you enjoy, you know You can't help it. Track 2:[39:34] Yeah, yeah. Yeah, and JD, you're right when you say that, because there was something that I put down, and I think I sent it to you, but I put this down about a month and a half ago, and there was a little guitar lick I put on there, and it was Nell. I recorded it with a fucking jazzmaster. It was Nell's Climb from fucking Wilco. And I was like, I was so worried that it was so obvious, and I played it for Issa, my wife, And I played it for you and I think I was like was it too much and like no it's just it was just right It was perfect. It was like kind of like a little but to me it was like My ears I literally stole the fucking Notes from him and like I took them and I said those are mine now. Thank you very much You know, but like it's it's not easy to do man. I don't know JD. Track 3:[40:25] Yes. I thought it I think they pulled it was just me JD that Pete Pete called up in the middle of my night and serenaded me with some guitar licks. Damn, I'm not feeling as special now. Track 2:[40:40] You'll get it Tim, you'll get it. Track 3:[40:42] Hey, I thought putting down... Track 1:[40:43] Putting down, yeah. Track 3:[40:45] Yeah, so putting down, I felt like, I mean Pete commented on the, you know, the references and stories of this great continent and what we did to the Indigenous folks that were already here and the land grabs and you know that's hitting hard with this one and I feel like with Gord's themes and songwriting and his connotations of it all, this is that song for the album, I thought it was like big and heavy. [41:22] I didn't really know what it was about my first handful of listens. I couldn't really peg it until I did a little bit deeper diving into it. But you know, it was my first few listens, it was kind of like a car ride sing-along song. I felt, you know, it just felt familiar. It felt hip. I didn't think like, this is the best song on the album, and I thought it held its place on the album for what it was. So that's kind of where it ended with me. Cool. The next one, Stay, on the other hand, I thought, man, this song, it's quiet, it's cute, it's cute. I hadn't had that feeling before. Is it a thank you? You know, the Bureau Chiefs and the Shrugging Spies, I thought this was at first when I first heard this? I thought this is hilarious. Without researching, I thought this was like a thank you or something to the band's road crew, because I heard beer and cheese and shrugging spies, not bureau chiefs. I mean, I was like, I was so incorrect with this song. You were a great crew. You were a great you. You know, what is the storyline here? Is it about going to war and relationships or what? What is going on here? Track 1:[42:48] Maybe a little of everything. Track 3:[42:49] Yeah, maybe, but one, you know, after I did, after the leak, Sit down and kind of research what it's about. Hopefully Pete you have some more music based Comments about it, but one person I need to shout out here. The the handle is The letter Y Salvatore, there was a song meanings.com. [43:15] Reference from 2005 so this this is amazing it said one theory is the song is about Fox Mulder from the X-Files lines like there's no one up above us and with the Bureau Chiefs and the shrugging spies on the X-Files series Mulder is often working against the establishment as a sentiment in this song you've got no business in here brother Mulder is obsessed Pete from I'll go with UFO so lines like you see a light and then another this this song maybe it's about UFOs maybe it's about aliens I don't know this this was like this was a total head-scratcher for me not to say that I didn't like it but it was like what is this song about it wasn't beer and cheese I don't know it's not it's funny that you say that because one of the lines already is this song makes me want to sit in a pub and drink beer with my buddy. I didn't say eat cheese, but like, that's the vibe I got. Appreciating the musicianship on this recordTrack 2:[44:21] I mean, it's, um, there's, there's, okay. I could say a lot. I really liked this song a lot. I loved it. It. The riffing that Gore does with the vocals. I think there's a bridge part of all things being balanced where John Fahy's drums... I feel like every musician on this record, on this record, really shines. Like everybody shines. Gord Sinclair, I feel like, has always been really top-notch. That guy is fucking flawless. He's so underrated. Extremely underrated. Uh, when it comes to, you know, I, I just because I'm, you know, playing wise, obviously Gordoni, I mean, there's nothing you can say about that, but playing wise, Paul Langlois, am I saying? Langlois. Track 1:[45:25] Langlois. Track 2:[45:27] Um, and Rob Baker. I've always kind of gone back. I'm starting to appreciate the differences between those guys because they're two Diametrically different guitar players. I mean so different and and That happened on this album. Track 3:[45:43] Don't you? Track 2:[45:43] Oh, yeah more so really noticeable and I went down a bit of a rabbit hole this week I'll try not to go as deep as I went, but I told JD I was watching some live stuff and looking at Rob Baker's set up. [46:05] Paul Ling Hua, he always plays that black Les Paul, but Rob Baker plays that Strat, which I fucking love. And he's got something called Lace Sensors pickups in it, which not to get too technical for the listeners. They were apparently these were like standard issue Fender pickups from 90 from 85 to like 96 and then they just became too expensive. But they're really cool. The only shitty part is they look horrible on a guitar. They don't look it doesn't make it look like a Strat anyway. But he also plays a Paul Reed Smith, which I absolutely hate those guitars because, and JD I told you this, they're the Carlos Santana guitar and when they first became like available to the public so to speak or like mainstream people were able to buy them. I remember walking into a guitar center in the 90s and seeing one up on the wall that was like, it was like $19,000 or $20,000 it was like ridiculous and just going, and now can buy a PRS for like $1,800, $2,000, but it just turned me off and I fucking hate it. And if I'm Rob Baker, if I'm Rob, if you're listening, just don't ever play the fucking PRS, man. Get rid of it. Ditch it. Rob Baker's guitar choices and preferences[47:30] The telly's cool, but that strat is where it's at, man. [47:35] He does play Tele, and there's one other one I can't remember, but there's a great website, and I sadly have been on it more times than I can count. Oh, and he plays an SG, and I play an SG too. The website's called Equipboard.com, and it's got, they can pretty much look at any like, musician that's like, you know, quote, unquote, made it, so to speak, and find their rig, and they have the references, like, not just like, they don't just tell you, but they go, this is why we know that this is they're playing and they have a link to like a concert video, or a picture of them pointing out the gear, which is fucking cool. Track 1:[48:24] It's really cool. Yeah. I love, neither of you guys mentioned it, but I love Gord's voice in this song. He's doing a different sort of thing with his voice. It's lower register, softer I suppose, right? Because it is a soft song. But it's down, it's, you know, sorry you can't see my hand, but it's down here, like belly button wise. Uh is really quite quite uh effective on this song i agree with that jd when are you gonna fix your your belly button cam you're gonna get that going next next pod what's that my belly button cam Yeah, that took me a minute to get. Sorry. All right, track number six. Track number 6 is The Bastard. Appreciating the Percussion and Lyrical InsanityTrack 2:[56:45] Wow. This song starts with the they're not bongos, but there's some sort of kind of cool percussion. Track 3:[56:54] They're there. Yeah, it's some kind of yeah, yeah, yeah. Track 2:[56:59] There's a lot. Track 3:[57:00] It's fun. I love when they bring those in. Track 2:[57:02] Yeah, it's really cool. This song lyrically is fucking insane. There's a word in there called crepuscular? Track 1:[57:16] Yeah, what is that? Like, what does that even mean? Track 2:[57:19] Yeah, it means, um, adjective of resembling or relating to twilight. Yeah, I mean, gnarly shit and- Oh, gourd. Track 1:[57:31] Oh, man. Track 3:[57:36] Crepuscular rays, as the sun groomed the plane with crepuscular rays. Track 2:[57:41] There's a line in there about the Purple Italians, like it's just... Track 3:[57:47] Yeah, what is that referencing? I meant to look that up. I meant to look that up more and did not. Track 2:[57:52] Some weird-ass lyrics. I noticed something too. I love the line, the presaging pel-nel. Yeah. Track 3:[58:03] Yeah, the pre-stage pel-nel. Track 1:[58:05] Pre-stage and pel-nel. Track 3:[58:06] Yeah, that was my favorite. Track 2:[58:09] It's um i noticed that in addition to to to um gordon sinclair being so in the fucking zone on this song like a like a like a hypnotized fucking i don't know dude he's just he's a fucking machine on this song song. He, I watched a little bit of the Woodstock, Woodstock live show 99. And in this song, during Grace 2, which is what they opened up with, Gord starts testing out some of these lyrics to this song during Grace 2. Bird's Eye View, right? Track 1:[58:54] He talks about a bird's eye view of a bird's eye view. Yeah, yeah. So cool that you got to see that. Track 2:[59:01] Finished watching the whole thing. Track 1:[59:02] And you recognize it. Track 2:[59:04] Go ahead. Frustration with lack of guitars in "Grace II"Track 1:[59:10] Yeah, I went down to Rabbit Hole the other day and was just watching a whole bunch. I started with that when I texted you guys and was like, yeah, I'm watching it. And for the beginning of Grace II, it's all drums and Gord's voice, which I don't mind, but I want to hear those guitars, you know? And then suddenly it kicks in. Track 3:[59:29] The purple people, the purple Italian people, I just found it was an Italian mass protest movement to call for the resignation of a prime minister, one of their prime ministers. I feel like, I don't know, there must have been an earlier historical use of this because this is actually from 2009. So yeah, I'm curious. Well, I forgot to tell you guys that Gord is actually reference a mystic he could see in the future yes I wouldn't be surprised yes guys if there's any more sorry there's any more insight on the purple people somebody somebody let us know Tim at getting hit So I got an email. Mention of an email received regarding the purple peopleTrack 1:[1:00:19] Yeah. Got to get our $80 worth. Track 3:[1:00:25] I loved the pre-staging Pell-Mel. There's been a handful. I wish I would have started a list of the gourdisms that would be so fun to learn and reference, because that was so good. When I first heard him sing that, it was like, you know. Track 1:[1:00:42] What is pell-mell? Track 3:[1:00:44] Well, it just means like, it just means like absurd craziness or warning, like presaging means like warning together. Well, pell-mell means confusion or disorder or like a confused haste. So it's, presaging is, you know, the warning of a disorderly moment or the warning of something about to go down. That's kind of what I took. Track 1:[1:01:16] That's dire, I love it. Track 3:[1:01:19] Pre-saging, yeah, it's good. I mean, it's a loaded three words, basically. I think Pete hit on a lot of it, but this song to me kind of got us back in the car and down the road again. It was like driving, rocking, feeling, which I totally dug. The reference of all of this auger as well, you know, auger meaning like a fucking coring, drilling, coring into something and it's just this good rocking song. Track 1:[1:01:55] It's different though. Auger spelled one way is coring, but there's another, like to auger is to portend a good or bad outcome. Track 3:[1:02:08] Okay. Track 1:[1:02:11] So it's like, to pretend. Yeah. And I believe that's what it, like, it's all this auger's well, like, but, right, like, auger a well could mean digging a hole. But auger's well means pretending to, portending to good things are going to happen. Track 3:[1:02:37] Okay, okay. I just thought there were some beautiful lyrics in here. Also, I mean, all this augurs well or yeah, it's the The stanza never mind that pool in the mountains victory came and went on winged elephants I saw you all this augurs. Well, like you know, what? What is what is going on there? But it I thought it was likely this loaded very story specific Specific song without researching it, you know, I heard the lyrics Billy Sunday shout in Philadelphia for Christ Like who really is this song about did you look up Billy Sunday? Track 1:[1:03:15] Yeah. Track 3:[1:03:16] Yeah. I loved I loved reading about that This is like one of those that is one of those songs easy, right? Yeah, you barely you barely touch into on the research side and Realize that you know Billy Sunday was baseball player. Track 1:[1:03:33] I want to say a pitcher from like 1891. Track 3:[1:03:36] Yeah, he was this total this this I guess amazing pitcher And he played for chicago and boston and philly and which During those times you played for a team like your whole career, you know, you stayed in the city You you you became a presence with the team and the community and all that stuff if you did but this this this fellow William Ashley or Billy Sunday Sunday was his family name he he was like a total drunk ladies man and he moved from team to team to team and I think this from what I read the cops and the ladies got to know him really well And then after playing in Philly, he was witnessed to on the street and ultimately became a traveling preacher. [1:04:32] He went from standout pitcher to traveling preacher. And while he was preaching, teams even were soliciting him to come back and pitch. And during those days, if you made like 400 bucks a month playing professional baseball, that was like, a great salary. Yeah, I'm sure. And at one point, I read the Pittsburgh Pirates offered him $2,000 a month, and he still declined, and he still continued to be a traveling preacher. And his kind of schtick was talking about like the sex and alcohol lifestyle, from what I gathered, a lot about alcohol. And it was so much that when towns heard he was coming, they would just close up the bars until he went out. Literally, because he was so like, you know, he was his own prohibitionist. So it's all the personality. Track 2:[1:05:37] Yeah Thinking of that was the runner then I Don't know Like losses lay or some Forrest Gump. Track 1:[1:05:45] No. Track 2:[1:05:45] No, this is a reference from the hip Oh Terry Fox Harry Fox. Track 1:[1:05:50] Very fine. Yeah no he's a guy that ran across canada or something and he got close but he died he ran a marathon everyday he ran a marathon everyday on one leg yeah. Oh okay yeah cuz he and he was he was like. He was twenty one years old and he got cancer they removed his leg and he decided he was gonna run across canada and he started on the east coast he passed away thunder bay so he passed away about one third of the way through. Track 3:[1:06:21] Wow. Track 1:[1:06:22] Oh, it's fucking still, man. That's crazy. But it's like, every day his stump was like, like, euchred because he was wearing one of the, like, now, probably, somebody could do it on one of those, like, one of those spring legs, you know? Track 3:[1:06:37] Yeah, yeah. Track 1:[1:06:38] Yeah, but back in the day, he had, like, just an old school prosthetic leg, and it was crazy. Yeah. Track 3:[1:06:45] Pete, on this one, did you feel like, Did you ever get an inkling like, uh, perhaps this one was music first lyric second, or did you pick up at all on like the kind of background guitar riffing that was kind of over here? And yeah, it was like, I don't know, it sounded a little after thought ish, that guitar riffing, just kind of carrying you through it all worked. But this one, this one, I think compositionally. You know, song, story, Billy Sunday reference aside, which is amazing to dive into and learn about. I mean, I almost want to paint Billy Sunday or something with like on the pulpit with a baseball bat. That's cool. A fifth of whiskey in the other hand or something. But anyways, I felt like compositionally, the song writing-wise fits in the album. It just It just kind of fits in there, but also like, eh. Track 1:[1:07:46] You weren't big on it. Track 3:[1:07:49] No, it didn't grab me. It was like, OK, let's get back in the car. We're back on the road. Let's get through the song. It's rocking. Yeah, let's see what's next. Track 2:[1:07:56] I think at first it was like that, but then the song really like, because instrumentally, it's so fucking rich. Yeah, but like Gord, dude, again, Gord could match, pick the most complex composition that any composers have ever written. And I'm sure there is some fucking book that Gord Downie wrote lyrics in, somewhere floating around or shoved in his fucking basement, that lyrics. Track 3:[1:08:29] I would hope there's like, yeah, like 200. Track 2:[1:08:32] Yeah, he could fit to that. I mean, they probably just, yeah. So I feel you. I feel you. I feel you. Yeah. Track 1:[1:08:40] So let's move into track number seven, The Completist. Track 2:[1:08:44] I don't have a ton to say about this. I would say I really love this song. Again, this is a fade in from the previous track. Gord Sinclair again. fucking standout performance on this song. The percussive chops of the band at this point in the record. I mean, there are other songs that come up that you're just like, what the fuck? But they're not a bar band anymore. I mean, I know they still, but I still think like, I don't know if it was Phantom Power before, a record or two before, you see that kind of bar band thing still rearing its head a little bit, Like, this is just so far from that. These guys are fucking, they've really become superb musicians from the EP to now. Like, they've honed their fucking craft. And then the... Musicians' dedication to improvementTrack 1:[1:09:51] Road tested. Track 2:[1:09:52] Yeah, I mean, it's the road, it's the recording, it's the composition. But it's clear that like, every single musician in this band is like, I want to become better at my instrument. And I'm going to do this. It wasn't just like they just played a bunch, kept doing it, like, they clearly actively tried to become better musicians, as they were continuing. Like, I would put that to any of these fucking guys, if they're standing in front of me, and tell me, like, tell me I'm lying. Like, tell me I'm full of shit. And they would say no. Like, Whether it's, I mean, fucking Kirk Hammett for fuck's sake was taking lessons from Steve Vai when he was already in Metallica. Like, what does that tell you? You know, like, musicians want to become better and they, these guys clearly. The only thing I was gonna say was the woman singing, I thought it was Kate Fenner from before, but it's not, right? Track 1:[1:10:52] I don't know, I thought it was Kate Fenner. Track 2:[1:10:54] Apparently it's, um, Julie. Do I run Dorian, Julie Dorian, Dorian. Track 1:[1:11:02] Oh, Julie Dorian. Track 2:[1:11:03] Okay. Track 1:[1:11:03] Yeah, yeah, yeah. That makes sense. Track 2:[1:11:05] But I, and this is just, you know, I want to say this earlier, Tim, but I want to say that I did do a little research on Kate Fenner and her, um, her label that she's signed to is called UFO music. So that's awesome. Track 1:[1:11:19] Oh, you must love that. Track 2:[1:11:20] I do. Track 3:[1:11:22] You just stole my thunder for Toronto 4. We'll get there. Track 2:[1:11:28] I thought the lyrics in the song were beautiful. It was fucking, the beautiful fucking lyrics. Amazingly beautiful. Track 1:[1:11:35] Yeah. Yeah. Track 3:[1:11:37] Well, I'll have to look into Julie Dorian. I had not found her. And we'll get to it, but we haven't talked much about Kate Fenner, nor who we mentioned earlier. Chris Brown. The fellow on keys, Chris Brown. Yeah, yeah, yeah. For me, this song to complete us, I felt like it was like at first it was kind of, OK, we're already back to a slowdown. Like, it felt a little bit of a chug placement-wise in the album, it's a beautiful song. You know, I just didn't, it kind of left me hanging a little bit. Like, it didn't grab me and shake me around or rattle me around or anything like that. It felt like it could have been an ender. Like, it felt like, is this the end of the album? I mean, this could be the end of an album, so that's good. Track 1:[1:12:29] Well, it's the end of side one, if you're thinking. Oh, maybe. LPs. Track 3:[1:12:36] Yeah, yeah, okay, okay. Track 1:[1:12:37] And that would make sense with our next song too, Freak Turbulence, opening side two with a banger, right? Track 3:[1:12:44] Yeah, big time. I mean, this is like we're alive again. We're back in the driver's seat or the passenger's seat. Like we have this backup singing again. I think this was Kate Fenner at this time. I'm not sure. Between the two. I don't know enough of Julie's voice to distinguish between the two. Track 1:[1:13:06] There are definitely people out there that will tell us for sure. Track 3:[1:13:10] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, I'm gonna look it up because I think I got Kate Fenner down. I mean, yes, yeah, yeah. So back to the song though, there's a comedy factor here, am I wrong? Like, this is so much about Gord being afraid to fly or not liking flying or, you know? Yeah, yeah, yeah, there's all this talk about. I don't know, it feels lighter and more fun than usual. Track 1:[1:13:39] Like, did the captain just say this? Like, did the captain just say, like? Track 3:[1:13:45] Well, we'll land in less than 10 minutes. Or he says, or unless. Did he say unless or less? Yeah, he's afraid. You know, I think this is the song that guys. Were had to fly back to Canada from the US because originally this album Was to be recorded on a moving locomotive train. Track 1:[1:14:11] They talked about doing that. Yes I don't know how that would have ever happened. Track 3:[1:14:15] No shit. What a fucking cool idea I mean imagine that Pete moving locomotive with all the sounds and shakes and rattles I mean maybe maybe for a song but a whole album yeah with some serious that was some serious weed smoking yeah I'm up with that idea you know we should do guys we should fly back down to Memphis take the train take the train to LA and record the home anyways this this is a this was kind of a fun song it was a little more jovial I dug it there's a There's a weird, PeepeePie caught this, there's some weird guitar feedback, like the last 10 seconds or so, which made the song feel kind of ominous, or maybe the Freak Turbulence was like the plane going down, I don't know. It was funny in that regard, it was like a total head-scratcher, but this one I kind of dug. Track 2:[1:15:15] Oh, I dug this one, man, there's a line in there that really stuck with me, it's Satan Holding back hands, our nose and our chin. Track 3:[1:15:22] Yeah, yeah. Track 2:[1:15:24] I love that. There's a really, I think, the mix, there was a lot of moments where I wrote down, this is probably the first time I've said it, but it's written on a ton of songs, the mix on this song, how they mix this song with the instruments, like the levels of all the instruments, it's just so, it really, you know, it makes the fucking song. It makes this song so fucking cool the vocals build, Yeah, I really, you know, I'll rather than to, I'll save my, you know, I'll yield my time only because I have some, some hefty shit to say about some stuff coming up. But I, this song made me run, like when this song came on and I was going on some runs, I definitely put it into a higher gear with this song. I loved it. I loved it. Yeah. Track 3:[1:16:20] Yeah. Yeah. Especially after the completed, you know, transitioning into this one. It's like, yes, OK, here we go again. This is definitely the if it's side two, it definitely is the the side one. Get us going again. "Sharks" - a monotonous but intriguing song[1:16:36] Sharks, can I go? Sharks. Yeah. This one kind of lazes along for me. It's got a few interesting bridges, but it's kind of monotonous, but not not. I'm not saying that in a negative way. It's almost like, it's almost got this head down, shoegazy kind of feel, you know? Then at the three minute mark, there's this like heavy tom kind of bass kind of transition in there. It's the bass guitar is like kind of all over the neck for just a brief second, but you know, it's one of, the, this song is, it has what I enjoyed because they they're starting to do this more because they're all just accelerating as musicians is that it has like well over a minute of music the last portion of it is just like great music carrying you through rather than singing until like the last seconds or giving like seven seconds at the end or what have you so it's. [1:17:42] It was kind of a fun song in that way. It just felt different than the rest, but also worked, you know, positively. Track 2:[1:17:52] I love, this is another fade in from the previous track, which I love, that they're doing that, making it very concept-y. I love the line in there about the Mariana's Trench. That's just fucking cool. It's such a, it's always been a fascination of mine, probably since I saw fucking, what was the name of that movie? Was that Harris? I don't know. I thought it was a James Cameron movie for Christ's sake, it was huge. The Abyss. The Abyss. Oh, The Abyss. The Abyss was in Maria's Trench. Track 1:[1:18:29] Right, right, right, right. Track 2:[1:18:32] But yeah, I mean, the big standout for me here is Rob Baker's guitar is just fucking insanity. He does these really cool arpeggios in the song. And the coolest thing for me was, I was like, what's that fucking effect on this guitar? And I was like, I wrote this down early on, I was like, he's got a, like a delay on the guitar, but not a delay. So it's going bum, bum, bum, bum, bum. It's so, the delay time is so small that you can't really hear it like a repetitive delay. It's just, when you put it down almost to zero, it just has this cool, and then I look on no shit by the time I found that website and he's got a Line 6 DL4 delay pedal that no doubt he was using on this fucking song. It just made me feel cool because I was like, my ears still work after all these years. But I fucking love it. If I didn't, I didn't think there was a song that could rival Tiger the Lion and I still don't think it beats it but it's pretty up there and that's fucking Toronto 4. An analysis of the opening guitar arpeggiosTrack 1:[1:26:42] Talk to me. Talk to me. Track 2:[1:26:44] I mean, the way it opens with the, like, the record static. Yep. Again, Rob Baker's doing these weird arpeggios, like he, like, it's kind of like a falling guitar, like he goes from a, like a, it's a D chord or whatever the hell, the octave, than the chord, then the seventh, then the diminished. Makes it feel really sad. It's just, or like, kind of sad and mysterious, and it's floating. It's like all the echo-y shit that there's, I don't know if it's Kate Fenner on this. It is. It is? Okay. Track 3:[1:27:26] Yeah. Track 2:[1:27:27] Yeah. The way that the, I don't know if it's like he's using mallets or what, but Johnny Fay is like coming in with the cymbals with these really soft mallets that like kind of give it like a gong sound to make it really super dramatic but the songs it's fucking awesome I mean I was like what it was weird because this was a song that early on I would get through the first nine tracks because I was doing like shorter runs when I would take it out and I didn't get to like Toronto for and then the first time I heard it I was like what in the fuck the surf tone on guitar is just... It's a cool jam dude. It's cool as fuck. A lot of Pink Floyd, I feel, influence on there. Track 3:[1:28:18] I agree with all that. I felt like the percussions on this, the drums on this one, had sort of this metronome, just more of a... I don't know. Track 2:[1:28:28] You do the panning on the left to right? Track 3:[1:28:31] Yeah, like the pace of the percussion really, to me, held the song like all the way through and was perfect. I mean, I often hone in on drum stuff like you do guitar and I felt like that was just, I don't know, this song is, it starts slow, it's emotional, it kind of feels like apologetic you know also feels like i don't know familiar maybe it's like the mention of Vesuvius as a metaphor for like family and stresses and breakups and i don't know the The song was just, it's pretty jam packed. I didn't. Look big into the background on lyrics or story or any of that, you know, I just questioned, which I said to JD like a week ago, I was like, why the hell Toronto four? Are there three other Toronto songs? Or what is what is that about? Track 1:[1:29:29] So if anybody knows, my only guess is, like my, as far as just guesswork, is might be, it might have been the fourth run, you know, it might have been the fourth take, like it's Sometimes you use the studio parlance to come up with the title of a song that you can't quite name. Track 3:[1:29:49] Yeah. Track 1:[1:29:50] Well, this is a great, it's a great song, and you're right, you nailed it on the head when you talk about family. Yeah, yeah. It's definitely familial. It's, you know, it's about the matriarch of his family, his grandmother, holding things up. And that what are the first the first lyrics are? Absolutely. They slay me and I can't recall them at the moment. Track 3:[1:30:17] You know, you were the rock plug for us all. Did you know you were the conduit of Vesuvius? You were far more unifying than, you know, I'm not a judge of suitable, but you almost had it all. I mean, if that's about his grandma being the what a tribute, the rock plug for their family. I mean rock plug is definitely a volcanic reference of you know a rock holding the mountain together before the magma just blows it apart so it's right fucking cool pretty pretty yeah I mean it's this this one maybe has the simplest lyrics that we've seen in a while. [1:30:59] It's it's a beautiful song. So Kate Fenner on this one just to touch on her because I Think we've heard her before although. I only found that she To recorded and toured for this album, but man, she's she's got this How do you describe her voice? I think it's just gorgeous. I think it's yeah, it's It's just, it's, it's, it's lovely. I, she, she, somebody described her as less, a lusty alternative to a Joni Mitchell ish sound. Like all of that is, is true. So she's got her own solo stuff. She's got, as Pete mentioned, UFO Records is her label. She's got this new album out that I touched on briefly over the weekend. It's it's pretty she's got a beautiful voice like if she ever tours and we get a chance to just Go and any of us hear her perform. I'm sure it would be worth it. She's got a dreamy voice So yeah, great great addition to me, too I don't know if you saw this tour JD, but what she did she yeah, do you recall her on stage or yeah? Track 1:[1:32:09] Because it was it was strange because both Chris Brown and her were on stage with them the whole time and that was It was just it was sort of a strange look because up until that point It had been the five of the month's age. Track 3:[1:32:20] Mm-hmm. Track 1:[1:32:20] That was it. And so this you know, it changed the dynamic for sure and I'll be the first to tell you that when this record dropped I Liked it But I didn't love it. But now 20 years later. Yeah, I fucking love this record Yeah, I can listen to this record at any time like yeah, yeah top to bottom. Okay, okay, Now let's go toward the bottom and talk about Wild Mountain Honey, dude. Track 3:[1:32:52] I love this one. So I'm taking I'm taking on this one. Mr Okay, you can you can fill in do it Yeah, like this this to me I heard Pink Floyd I heard Jerry Garcia of guitar effects Like I I heard like fish. I don't know like this song to me. They even the the title is is different, like this one was just a little bit different there. You know, it's the drums are soft, but they can sound kind of angry. This is one of the songs on the album, you know, the first time listening it through. Or I thought, OK, I need to find this one live and check it out because I'm sure it gets played harder and louder, maybe faster. [1:33:43] There's just really good chord changing and bridges and guitar riffs and it feels a little bit patched or contrived at the end you know I was hoping for like a big finish the first time I heard this one because it really grabbed me it made it just this to me was like hip fans who have seen the band play live a a bunch. Probably love this one live. You know, this one just, it hit some marks for me with going, with going after, like, followers of other bands who I knew probably in the same summer saw Grateful Dead play it or saw Phish play and saw the Tragically Hit play. Like a lot of, you know, A lot of times when I experience bands playing live over the course of a summer, it kind of, you know, dictates that summer. Like, you think back to that summer and you're like, oh, that's when I went to X Festival or that's when I saw 8Bandplay a couple times. The Papa Roach show. Yeah, like that's, yeah, definitely the Papa Roach show. But no, this one was, This kind of centered me back into the seat of the Tragically Hip. I really dug it. I ended up listening to it a handful of times by itself. Track 1:[1:35:08] Oh wow! Cool. Track 3:[1:35:11] Probably not a single though, right? Track 1:[1:35:13] Not a single, nope. Track 3:[1:35:14] Yeah, every once in a while they have a song that's not a single that's a little bit off character that I dig and this is one of those. Rhythms and Unique Drum Hits in "Wild Mountain Honey"Track 2:[1:35:23] I thought that I mean the song it's funny ironically it starts out like wild mountain honey it begins like the name does Soft like wild mountain honey, and it creeps up on you like a whiskey, and it fucking destroys. Yeah, yeah, yeah Yeah, I think It's funny because I remember looking for the lyrics online and realized there's a Steve Miller song called why I'm not many as well But when I saw the title of this, I thought of the Peach Boys song, Wild Honey, which neither of those examples are even close to this song. But what I got from it was, I fucking love the rhythms in this fucking, the drums in the rhythms. The drum hits in this fucking song are so cool and they're so unique and they don't sound like another band. Like there's some songs that, like I mentioned, some Wilco stuff earlier, there's other songs from other hip records where it's like they're doing a drum hit or a drum fill and you're like, yeah, that's the same drum fill that this band did on this song and that's been, this is completely fucking different. And it's so fucking cool. So unique, the rhythms in the song. [1:36:43] There's a weird keyboard or flute effect in the background going down, it was really faint and hard to pick up. I'm pretty sure it was a keyboard, but it could have been some sort of setting, but I love the line, I don't want to put another thought in my head, I just thought that was so fucking cool towards the end. And then the song, the solo starts before, but the part at about 3 minutes 30 seconds of the guitar soloer. Just, I don't know, dude. I hope I run into him. Track 3:[1:37:18] That carries it to the end, right? Track 2:[1:37:22] It does. Yeah. I want to run into Rob Baker at a 7-Eleven or something. Him buying a Slurpee and me already up front and being like, hey, man, let me get this guy's Slurpee and I'll pay for it or something. Just be like, alright, man. Track 1:[1:37:41] What a gentleman you are. Track 2:[1:37:42] I want to be that guy. It's weir

Your two favorite cryptid monsters are back with these terrifying new sightings. Follow and review Tales from the Break Room on Spotify and Apple Podcasts! https://pod.link/1621075170 Join EERIECAST PLUS to unlock ad-free episodes and support this show! (Will still contain some host-read sponsorships) https://www.eeriecast.com/plus SCARY STORIES TIMESTAMPS 0:00 INTRO 0:48 Deer Don't Hunt Horses from BoulderEquestrian9914 7:30 Encounter with a Creature in Algonquin Park from Anonymous 14:01 Something Wore My Grandma's Skin from Maple 17:15 There's Something Like a Skinwalker in Finland from Capitan_Stark 23:13 Skinwalker at Scout Hall from NGfoxy666 28:09 The Hunt for Entities from Daniel_7se 34:10 My Dad Saw a Skinwalker from Silver Bullet54 37:42 Those Are Not My Friends from EdoCustom 47:21 Hunted from Country rebel  CREDITS: Background Music for Stories by CO.AG https://www.youtube.com/@co.agmusic1823 LINKS:  Join my DISCORD: https://discord.gg/5Wj9RqTR3w Follow us on Spotify! https://open.spotify.com/show/3mNZyXkaJPLwUwcjkz6Pv2 Follow and Review us on iTunes! https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/darkness-prevails-podcast-true-horror-stories/id1152248491   Submit Your Story Here: https://www.darkstories.org/ Get Darkness Prevails Podcast Merchandise! https://teespring.com/stores/darknessprevails Subscribe on YouTube for More Stories! https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCh_VbMnoL4nuxX_3HYanJbA?sub_confirmation=1 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

On July 8, 1918, artist and avid outdoorsman Tom Thomson took his boat onto Canoe Lake in Algonquin Park, Ontario, to go fishing. His body was found floating in the lake three days later. Other community members saw his boat overturned but waited days to report it. Was his death a tragic accident, or did something more sinister happen? Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices