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Send us a textJayne Amelia talks with Colonel (Retired) Gregory J. Rosenmerkel who is a new CASA in Colorado and just assigned a sibling set of three boys.  Rosie grew up in Waukesha, WI and earned his commission and degree in Civil Engineering from the United States Air Force Academy in 1988.  He spent over 25 years as an Air Force officer/engineer with assignments to 11 different locations in the US and overseas.  He commanded units at both squadron and group levels and he led teams on deployments to Somalia, Panama, Haiti, Iraq, Afghanistan and several other locations. He's earned a Master of Science in Management from Colorado Christian University, a Master of Science in Civil Engineering/Construction from the University of Colorado at Boulder, and a Master of National Security and Strategic Studies from the US Naval War College in  Newport RI.In his last military assignment, then Colonel Rosenmerkel was the Commander, 11th Mission Support Group, (similar to a City Manager) at Joint Base Andrews, MD.  The group was over 1,200-people strong and provided base services to the Andrews community, the Pentagon and over 50 other units in the National Capital Region.  His awards and decorations include: the Legion of Merit, Bronze Star, Meritorious Service Medal with five oak leaf clusters, Air Force Commendation Medal with oak leaf cluster, Army Commendation Medal, Navy and Marine Corps Commendation Medal, Meritorious Unit Award, Outstanding Unit Award with three oak leaf clusters, Organizational Excellence Award with oak leaf cluster, Aghanistan Campaign Medal, Iraq Campaign Medal, Korea Service Medal, Humanitarian Service Medal, NATO Medal and many others.        In their 13th move, he and his family settled in Glenwood Springs CO where he was the Engineering, Minerals and Fleet Staff Officer for the White River National Forest from 2013-2022.  He led a team of engineers and technicians to provide professional services in support of sustainable operations and multiple-use management of 2.3 million acres of public land. His wife of 33 years, Linda, is also a USAF Academy graduate and retired AF officer, currently working as a civilian for the Secretary of the Air Force's office.  Their son Ray is a Cadet Second Class (junior) at USAFA and their daughter Allison graduated the University of California in Santa Cruz in 2024. He is a licensed realtor, works part time as a bridge inspector and mentor for the USFS, teaches sporting clays shooting, and works at Ironbridge Golf Club.  He volunteers for the Western Slope Veterans Coalition and the Knights of Columbus as well as being a CASA. He and Linda enjoy biking, skiing, fitness, golfing and visiting family and friends all over the Country.  *A few things from early life not in this bio--Rosie grew up in the same town as both sets of grandparents, most of his aunts, uncles and cousins and graduated from the same high school as his Mom and Dad.  He has two sisters and a brother, and he's #2.See bonusbabies.org to learn more about what we are doing and please donate to support us by making a 100% tax-deductible contribution. EVERY PENNY OF YOUR CONTRIBUTION GOES TO RECORDING AND PLATFORMING THESE STORIES. Yeah!IG@bonusbabiespodcastTW@BonusBabiesPodFB@BonusBabiesPodcast

#206: Lieutenant Colonel Todd Beer was the Air Force One pilot for both the President Bill Clinton & President George W Bush administrations, as well as the 9/11 terrorists attacks and many other influential historical moments.Todd grew up in Indiana and his basketball success earned him an opportunity to play college basketball at the highly coveted United State Air Force Academy. After surviving a plane crash while he was in high school he never had a desire to fly. During his time at the USAFA he started over 108 straight games, overcame adversity, grew in courage, persisted through flight school, and competed at the highest levels. All of which were building blocks to a distinguished career in aviation. He shares the tense moments on 9/11 when minimal information was at hand to make critical decisions to safely fly the president. Other moments include covertly flying Air Force one into Bagdad for President Bush's surprise visit and flying Present Clinton right after news of the Monica Lewinsky scandal surfaced. More importantly he shares his story and all of the lessons he learned not just to have a successful career, but also a successful family. Enjoy the show! 

Retired F-15 and F-16 fighter pilot Nicole Malachowski tells us about flying 18 inches off the wings of high-speed jets as a U.S. Air Force Thunderbird.Welcome to Season 6 of the Behind the Wings podcast! In this episode, Nicole takes us through her groundbreaking journey as the first woman to become a Thunderbird pilot. She discusses her combat missions, flying in airshows, her WASP connection, and how a tick-borne illness changed her life forever. There is a lot to learn!Resources:Nicole Malachowski's Website Nicole Malachowski's Bio (Wikipedia) Chapters:(00:00) - Intro (01:23) - F-15 vs. F-16 (02:22) - Early Interest in Aviation (03:26) - USAFA (04:42) - The Ban on Women In Combat Jets (06:38) - Flying the F-15 and F-16 (09:06) - Combat Missions (13:50) - Thunderbirds Admission (17:58) - Thunderbirds Training (21:33) - Combat vs. Thunderbirds (24:02) - Audience Interaction (27:34) - Tick-Borne Illness (32:57) - The Wounded Warrior Program (34:12) - WASP Connection (36:55) - The Future of Veteran Medicine (39:21) - Nicole's Legacy (40:42) - Nicole's Advice (41:45) - Outro

Need financing for your next investment property? Visit: https://www.academyfund.com/ Want to join us in San Antonio, TX on June 11th & 12th? Visit: https://www.10xvets.com/events ____ Jeff Martinovich is a seasoned business advisor, entrepreneur, and U.S. Air Force veteran with a background in finance, leadership, and strategic growth. A former Gulf War officer, he went on to build a billion-dollar investment firm, gaining firsthand experience in high-performance leadership and navigating complexity under pressure. After a highly public legal battle that reshaped his views on resilience and integrity, Jeff now channels his experience into helping leaders grow with purpose and clarity. As a partner at ASH Business Advisory, he works alongside fellow Air Force Academy grads to support early-stage and mid-market companies through capital, executive support, and operational strategy. He's the author of When Not If, a Forbes Books bestseller on leading through adversity, and speaks nationally on business growth, accountability, and principled leadership. Today, Jeff is focused on helping entrepreneurs lead with confidence, scale intentionally, and build businesses that make a lasting impact. In this episode of the SABM podcast, Scott chats with Jeff about: From Billion-Dollar Firm to Prison: Jeff's journey from leading a billion-dollar investment firm to facing incarceration. Turning Time Into Opportunity:  How Jeff studied law behind bars and earned early release from a 14-year sentence. Purpose-Driven Business: Helping small companies grow through Ash Business Advisory. Hard-Earned Wisdom: Authoring two books to share lessons from failure, redemption, and rebuilding. Championing Founders: Jeff now mentors entrepreneurs, offering strategic guidance to help them grow with clarity and integrity. Timestamps: 01:00 Jeff's Background Before 2012 02:07 The Crazy Story Begins 05:38 Surviving Prison and Helping Others 08:50 Life After Prison 12:39 Lessons Learned and Business Ventures 15:55 The Power of Sharing Stories Connect with Jeffrey: LinkedIn Email: jam@jeffmartinovich.com https://www.jeffmartinovich.com/ If you found value in today's episode, don't keep it to yourself—share it with a colleague or friend who could benefit. And if you're a Service Academy graduate ready to elevate your business, we'd love for you to join our community and get started today. Make sure you never miss an episode—subscribe now and help support the show: Apple Podcasts Spotify Leave us a 5-star review! A special thank you to Jeff for joining me this week. Until next time! -Scott Mackes, USNA '01

In this episode of NucleCast, host Adam speaks with Lieutenant Colonel Gary Glover about the evolving landscape of the Air Force, particularly in relation to nuclear force design and modernization efforts. They discuss the importance of advanced education for military officers, the implications of hypersonic weapons on nuclear command and control, and the broader national security challenges facing the United States.Lieutenant Colonel Garrett Glover is the Chief of AFGSC Futures Division, Air Force Global Strike Command, an Assistant Professor of Political Science at USAFA, and a Senior Fellow with the Institute for National Security Studies.Colonel Glover was commissioned from the United States Air Force Academy in 2009. He has held key positions within the Intercontinental Ballistic Missile community, including Instructor, Evaluator, Flight Commander, and Assistant Director of Operations. As Executive Officer for the Office of Defense Programs at the National Nuclear Security Administration, he played a pivotal role in the successful execution of a $5 billion Stockpile Stewardship Program, supporting $25 billion in nuclear sustainment initiatives. He served as a Presidential Nuclear Strike Advisor and Assistant Deputy Director of Operations at the National Military Command Center, translating presidential intent into nuclear strike options and leading a joint inter-agency team focused on both nuclear and conventional global military operations. In this role he oversaw the execution of the National Military Command System on behalf of the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs. Additionally, he served as Executive Assistant to the Deputy Director for Nuclear and Homeland Defense Operations (J-36) on the Joint Staff at the Pentagon. He spent a year as a DoD Nuclear Technical Lab Fellow at Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory, CA. Prior to his current position, he served as the Chief Nuclear Strategist of Headquarters, Air Force Global Strike Command.Chapters00:00 Introduction to Global Strike Command and Force Design07:29 The Importance of Advanced Education for Officers15:23 Hypersonics and Nuclear Command Control25:50 Wishes for National Security and EducationSocials:Follow on Twitter at @NucleCastFollow on LinkedIn: https://linkedin.com/company/nuclecastpodcastSubscribe RSS Feed: https://rss.com/podcasts/nuclecast-podcast/Rate: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/nuclecast/id1644921278Email comments and topic/guest suggestions to NucleCast@anwadeter.org

Here is George “Bud” Studor who grew up in upstate NY and went to the zoo as a wrestler. He wrestled all four years and graduated with a degree in Astro. In the USAF he flew C-130s pretty much everywhere most notably Europe, Greenland, and Korea. A chance meeting with a family friend who was also an astronaut got him a slot at AFIT where he earned his MS in Astro. He then took jobs at NASA in TX while on active duty. He also taught at USAFA, earned his PHd at Montana State and upon leaving the USAF went full time to NASA for 30 years. He ended his NASA career for a proper family reason and consults now.

Jim Glass and I attended Prattville Jr HS in the late 60's and share some overlapping impressions of those times. Jim went from HS to Marion Military Academy prior to USAFA, was thinking of leaving USAFA 3rd class year and got detoured for a solid reason, became a cadet Falconer, graduated and served his commitment in the USAF. He then felt the calling to serve in a higher way and went off to earn his Master's and PHD in divinity which led to his becoming a pastor. After being away from the Air Force for 16 years he applied and returned as a chaplain which he constituted to do till full retirement 40 years after graduation! A key assignment was at USAFA in the Center for Character Development.

The Association of Graduates and Air Force Academy Foundation just dropped a special episode of Long Blue Leadership, featuring our continuing coverage of the 32nd National Character and Leadership Symposium. ----more---- Bryan Grossman, senior director of strategic communications and managing editor of Checkpoints magazine, speaks with this year's Sullenberger Award for Courage recipients. “Atomic,” “Batman,” “Guns,” and “Royal” helped stave off an arial assault on an allied nation. Listen to their stories on any of your favorite podcast apps and watch for more additional coverage in your March Checkpoints. (L-R) OUR GUESTS FOR THIS SPECIAL EDITION OF LONG BLUE LEADERSHIP Capt. Kyle "Royal" Abraham, USAFA '19  Capt. Logan "Batman" Cowan, USAFA ‘18 Capt. Carla "Guns" Nava, USAFA '18 Claire "Atomic" Eddins, USAFA '18 "...All (four of these) warfighter graduates distinguished themselves in what has been called the largest air-to-air engagement in over 50 years when they helped turn away Iran's April 2024 attack against Israel. Their extraordinary airmanship contributed greatly to preserving regional stability, protecting Coalition forces, and saving countless civilian lives." Copy Credit:  USAFA Superintendent's Office   CHECKPOINTS ONLINE     ACCESS THE MOST RECENT ISSUE OF CHECKPOINTS - REQUIRES SIGN-IN   THE LONG BLUE LINE PODCAST NETWORK TEMPORARY STUDIO CADET HONORS CONFERENCE ROOM, POLARIS HALL   VIEW THE FULL NCLS 2025 SPEAKER AND PRESENTER PLAYLIST       The Long Blue Line Podcast Network is presented by the U.S. Air Force Academy Association and Foundation      

#481 Chasing Mastery with Matt Fitzgerald Welcome Welcome to Episode #481 of the 303 Endurance Podcast. We're your hosts Coaches Rich Soares and April Spilde. Thanks for joining us for another week of endurance news, coaching tips and discussion.  This week we have a special feature with guest author, athlete and coach Matt Fitzgerald.   Show Sponsor: UCAN UCAN created LIVSTEADY as an alternative to sugar based nutrition products. LIVSTEADY was purposefully designed to work with your body, delivering long-lasting energy you can feel. Whether UCAN Energy Powders, Bars or Gels, LIVSTEADY's unique time-release profile allows your body to access energy consistently throughout the day, unlocking your natural ability to finish stronger and recover more quickly!    In Today's Show Announcements and News Featuring our 303 Webinar Series interview with Matt Fitzgerald  Special Get Gritty: Rich and April Mastery Chase TriDot Workout of the Week - Rich Fun Segment: Tri-Battle: April vs. Rich!    Announcements and News: TriDot Pool School - Last week's Pool School was an incredible success: 20 athletes on average made a 15% improvement (reduction) in their 100y time At 6000 feet on the USAFA campus    Upcoming Programming - Our February focus will be on swimming. Mar. 7 - Webinar with author and coach Matt Fitzgerald on his new book Chasing Mastery Mar. 15 - Run Drills and Run Mechanics Mar. 22 - Trail and Snow Running Mar. 29 - USAT CEO Vic Brumfield on USA Triathlon's strategic plan – Elevate 2028: Focus Forward – which is USAT's roadmap to LA 2028.   Announcing Coaches Corner (aka Office Hours) with Coaches April Spilde and Rich Soares. Every 3rd Tuesday of the month. Link to March 18 Coaches Corner - https://www.facebook.com/share/15reK1J3m5/   Grit2Greatness Endurance Website and Social Media - Come check out our new coaching  Website - Grit2Greatness Endurance Coaching Facebook page @grit2greatnessendurance Ask A Coach Sponsor: G2G Endurance Triathletes, it's time to unlock your potential! Grit2Greatness Coaching has joined forces with TriDot to bring you personalized, science-backed training that actually works. No fluff—just smarter training, better results, and a 2-week free trial to get you started. After that? Plans start at just $14.99/month. The best athletes don't just train harder; they train smarter. Click the link in our show notes and see what's possible!   Train With Coach Rich: Coach Rich Soares Rich.soares@tridot.com Rich Soares Coaching TriDot Signup - https://app.tridot.com/onboard/sign-up/richsoares RunDot Signup - https://app.rundot.com/onboard/sign-up/richsoares   Train with Coach April: Coach April Spilde April.spilde@tridot.com TriDot Signup - https://app.tridot.com/onboard/sign-up/aprilspilde RunDot Signup - https://app.rundot.com/onboard/sign-up/aprilspilde    Ask A Coach: Chasing Mastery with Matt Fitzgerald There's more to endurance performance than training. Best-selling author and coach Matt Fitzgerald gives athletes 25 practical lessons to unlock their true potential and master their sport. Every athlete's pursuit of performance will eventually become a game of diminishing returns. Matt Fitzgerald invites endurance athletes to focus on mastery, and performance will follow. The path to mastery goes well beyond an athlete's training program and stretches beyond the realm of sport. The end goal is for the athlete to realize their full potential, which will elevate their experience both in their sport and the rest of life. Preorder on Amazon for March 27th. Chasing Mastery: 25 Lessons to Cultivate Your Full Potential in Endurance Sports: Fitzgerald, Matt: 9798990795808: Amazon.com: Books Get Gritty Tip: Chasing Mastery Take-Aways April:  There's so much that I learned that it's hard to choose one, but I'd have to say I loved and will continue to think about the power of self-regulation. I think that is such a magnificent concept and speaks to how our daily choices really do determine our long term outcomes. True mastery comes from self-regulation: the ability to control your emotions, thoughts, and actions in pursuit of your goals. Talent and training matter, but they're not enough. The best athletes—regardless of age or ability—are those who develop discipline, resilience, and the capacity to push themselves to their absolute limit. Mastery isn't about being the fastest; it's about taking control of what you can and becoming the best version of yourself. I can choose to be Marcus or Bella…Being good at a sport isn't just about performance or raw speed—it's about mastering your full potential.  Rich:  What I loved about it is that it's so empowering. On the one hand it helps us to accept that we only have the potential we were born with, but it also gives us all of the responsibility of living up to that potential. The responsibility is squarely on the athlete to master and own all the decisions. Whether it's how well you executed today's workout, the decisions that set you up for success for not, decisions around training, recovery, nutrition, injury - everything. Even the decision to work with a coach or not.  TriDot Workout of the Week:  “Fartleks” Where does the word “Fartlek” come from and what does it mean? Fartlek - Wikipedia Fartlek is a middle and long-distance runner's training approach developed in the late 1930s by Swedish Olympian Gösta Holmér. It has been described as a relatively unscientific blending of continuous training (e.g., long slow distance training), with its steady pace of moderate-high intensity aerobic intensity,[2] and interval training, with its “spacing of more intense exercise and rest intervals.” Simply stated, in its widely adapted contemporary forms, Fartlek training is alternating periods of faster and slower running, often over natural terrain, including both “level and hilly terrain.   Session Note As with interval runs, the goal with fartleks is to be consistent throughout the session from start to finish. Don't go out too fast or cut your recovery periods short early in the session. This will negatively impact your training toward the end of your session. Be disciplined and hold consistent pacing and recovery periods for the entire session.   Warmup 2-3 min jog followed by 2x10 yards or meters of each drill: Quick Feet Butt Kicks Skipping for Height & Distance A Skips Asymmetric Arm Swings B Skips Bounds 2 x 40-60 yard or meter Strides Leg Swings   Main Set 3-9 x 4 min @ Z4 (60 sec jog) Balance of time @ Z2   Session Note Your goal is to perform each repeat with a consistent effort. The pace of your last repeat should be the same or slightly faster than your first. Be conservative and don't go out too hard on the first one else your later repeats will be negatively impacted. The most significant training benefit will come in how well you perform on the last few efforts. Recoveries should be at an extremely slow jog.   Fun Segment:  Tri-Battle: April vs. Rich Triathlon Edition – Do Rich and April Agree, or is There a Friendly Argument Brewing?   Now we're taking this debate beyond the run and into the full triathlon experience! In this segement, we will break down our Top 5 triathlon favorites—but do we actually agree, or is this about to turn into a friendly (but competitive) triathlon showdown?   How it Works:  - After each pick is revealed, Rich and April have 30 seconds to defend their choice.   - If we agree—great! Mutual validation.   - If we disagree—it's time for the Great Triathlon Debate!     - Each person gets 30 seconds to makes their case.     - At the end, they either:       - Convince the other to switch sides        - Agree to disagree   Who had the better argument? Folks, keep your eyes peeled for our polls this week on social media. Next episode, we'll reveal the results and either celebrate a victory lap or begrudgingly admit defeat.     Closing: Thanks again for listening this week. Please be sure to follow us @303Triathlon and @grit2greatnessendurance and of course go to iTunes and give us a rating and a comment. We'd really appreciate it! Stay tuned, train informed, and enjoy the endurance journey!  

In this special episode of Long Blue Leadership, we present our Long Blue Line Podcast Network coverage of National Character and Leadership Symposium 2025. ----more---- SUMMARY The theme for this year's symposium was “Warfighters to Win.” Cadets heard from leaders who model the warrior spirit of our Air Force and Space Force. Host, Ted Robertson, Multimedia and Podcast Specialist for the Air Force Academy Association of Graduates and Foundation, spoke with organizers, speakers, and panelists who came to NCLS from all across the military and academia.   OUR GUESTS FOR THIS EPISODE SEGMENT 1 Topic:  a look inside CCLD, the annual production of NCLS, and a preview of who is guesting in this podcast. Ms. Danielle Brines NCLS Program Director Dr. Michele Johnson NCLS Speaker Engagement Team Lead SEGMENT 2 Topic:  the thinking behind NCLS and how the Academy and cadets benefit and gain from the event and year-round programs. Dr. Doug Lindsay '92 Executive Editor, Journal of Character and Leadership Development Author, In Your Moment:  Mastering Your Leadership Thresholds    SEGMENT 3 Topic:  Sharing their journeys to careers in support of Strike Eagle Squadrons. 1st Lt. Gabrielle "DARE" Sutedjo '21 Intelligence Analyst for the 4th Fighter Wing, Seymour Johnson AFB supporting four Strike Eagle squadrons. Capt. Joel Zamot '18 Lead Weapons Systems Officer, 335th Fighter Squadron, Seymour Johnson AFB supporting four Strike Eagle squadrons.   SEGMENT 4 Topic:  Task Force Hope:  Crisis Leadership and Moral Injury Recovery. Task Force (TF) Hope equips participants with the tools to face adversity head-on, lead decisively through crisis, and recover with resilience from the lasting weight of moral injuries. Forged in the crucible of operational challenges, it embodies 14 years of relentless refinement, evolving from a 2010 Squadron Officer School (SOS) paper into a powerful SOS elective and further sharpened by the innovative rigor of the 2020 SOS Think Tank. Tested and validated by over 2,000 Air Force captains, three academic years of Air War College students and faculty, the 55th Operations Group Global Squadron Command Summit, and multiple Air Force, Army, and USSOF units, TF Hope empowers leaders to master their craft, make bold decisions amidst uncertainty, and outpace the chaos of crisis. The resounding feedback from participants underscores its impact: “Why didn't I hear this earlier in my career?” Col. Jonathan Sawtelle Founder of Task Force Hope Air Force Weather Career Field Manager at Headquarters Air Force, the Pentagon, Washington D.C. Lt. Col. Brandon Murphy '07 Director of Operations for the 306th Operations Support Squadron at the U.S. Air Force Academy. Maj. Tara Holmes Chief of Cadet Development at the Center for Character and Leadership Development at the U.S. Air Force Academy.   SEGMENT 5 Dr. John Torres '82 Topic:  "No Excuses." Dr. John Torres is a self-described “Air Force brat” who graduated from the U.S. Air Force Academy in 1982. His 32-year military career in the Air Force included active duty as a C-130 Hercules pilot and service in the Air National Guard and Air Force Reserve as a flight surgeon. His military service also included a tour of duty in Iraq in 2004, as well as rescue missions at the South Pole and in response to Hurricane Katrina and Hurricane Rita. Leveraging his combined medical and military experience, Torres helped establish training courses for NATO Special Forces soldiers to ensure a high level of consistency across various nations, languages and cultures.   SEGMENT 6 Topic:  Preview of our interview with the four winners of the Capt. Sullenberger Award for Courage. The podcast was hosted by Bryan Grossman, Association of Graduates and Foundation Senior Director of Communications. Publication is set for March 13-16, 2025. Capt. Claire Eddins, USAFA '18 Capt. Carla Nava, USAFA '18 Capt. Logan Cowan, USAFA ‘18 Capt. Kyle Abraham, USAFA '19, All warfighter graduates distinguished themselves in what has been called the largest air-to-air engagement in over 50 years when they helped turn away Iran's April 2024 attack against Israel. Their extraordinary airmanship contributed greatly to preserving regional stability, protecting Coalition forces, and saving countless civilian lives." Copy Credit:  USAFA Superintendent's Office     VIEW THE FULL VIDEO PLAYLIST OF ALL SPEAKERS AND PRESENTERS           The Long Blue Line Podcast Network is presented by the U.S. Air Force Academy Association and Foundation      

Need financing for your next investment property? Visit: https://www.academyfund.com/ Want to join us in San Antonio, TX on June 11th & 12th? Visit: https://www.10xvets.com/events ____ David Baska is a dynamic leader with expertise in operations, finance, and strategic planning. As Chief Operating Officer at Swift Brands, he spearheads the company's mission to revolutionize military-branded apparel and the broader apparel industry through innovative technology and U.S.-based on-demand manufacturing. A former officer in the U.S. Air Force, David served in space and military operations, earning honors such as the Defense Meritorious Service Medal, and later contributed as a program manager in the U.S. Space Force. An academy graduate and former collegiate baseball player, he brings a strong foundation in leadership and teamwork to his professional endeavors. David's passion for innovation and dedication to excellence continue to drive meaningful advancements across industries, leaving a lasting impact.   In this episode of the SABM podcast, Scott chats with David about: The Vision for Swift Brands: Revolutionizing apparel with a vertically integrated tech and e-commerce platform. Innovative Solutions: Addressing supply chain issues with U.S.-based on-demand manufacturing for youth sports, schools, and military sectors. David's Journey: From academy grad and baseball player to leader of Swift Brands and MadeinVSA.com. Simplifying Customization: Empowering schools, military units, and affinity groups to create and manage custom apparel lines effortlessly. Challenges and Future Goals: Tackling industry obstacles and aiming for impactful milestones in 2025. Ways to Collaborate: Opportunities to partner with Swift Brands and connect with David for support.   Timestamps: 00:25 Overview of Swift Brands 03:23 Understanding VSA and Its Market 09:46 Military Market and Vision 18:06 Future Goals and Challenges   Connect with David : LinkedIn - David B. www.madeinvsa.com   If you found value in today's episode, don't keep it to yourself—share it with a colleague or friend who could benefit. And if you're a Service Academy graduate ready to elevate your business, we'd love for you to join our community and get started today.   Make sure you never miss an episode—subscribe now and help support the show: Apple Podcasts Spotify Leave us a 5-star review! A special thank you to David for joining me this week. Until next time! -Scott Mackes, USNA '01

Dr. Heather Wilson, a 1982 Air Force Academy graduate, formerly the 24th Secretary of the Air Force, and first USAFA graduate to hold the position, discusses her unexpected journey to the role, emphasizing the importance of integrity, service, and leadership. ----more---- SUMMARY Dr. Wilson shares her unexpected journey into leadership, the importance of integrity, and the lessons learned from both successes and failures. She reflects on her family legacy, the influence of mentors, and how her military background shaped her leadership style. Dr. Wilson emphasizes the value of collecting tools for leadership and adapting to different environments while maintaining core values. In this conversation, she discusses the importance of finding purpose in one's mission and the value of relationships, particularly family support. She reflects on her journey as a woman in leadership, the significance of legacy in public service, and her unexpected path to serving in Congress. Dr. Wilson emphasizes the lessons learned in collaboration and the importance of humor in leadership, ultimately encouraging future leaders to uphold high standards and not to shame their families.   SHARE THIS EPISODE LINKEDIN | FACEBOOK   TAKEAWAYS Dr. Wilson's journey to becoming Secretary of the Air Force was unexpected and transformative. Leadership often requires owning failures and focusing on solutions. Integrity is foundational to effective leadership and builds trust. Adapting leadership styles to different cultures is essential for success. Mentorship and influences from family play a significant role in shaping leaders. Collecting tools and knowledge is crucial for effective leadership. Quality management principles can be applied to various fields, including education and social services. Leadership is not linear; it involves navigating different paths and chapters. Building strong teams and hiring the right people is vital for organizational success. Direct communication and honesty are key components of effective leadership. Doing things that matter with people you like is essential. The most important decision in life can be personal, like choosing a partner. Family support enriches life and provides joy. Women in leadership often face unique challenges but can pave the way for others. Legacy is about making lasting changes in systems and strategies. Unexpected opportunities can lead to significant career changes. Collaboration and giving credit to others is key in leadership roles. Humor can help create a relaxed atmosphere in serious environments. Education is crucial for transforming lives and communities. Leadership is not always a straight path; adaptability is important.   EPISODE CHAPTERS 00:00  Introduction to Long Blue Leadership 01:25  Unexpected Call to Leadership 03:16  Lessons from Leadership Challenges 08:28  The Importance of Integrity 10:07  Adapting Leadership Styles 12:23  Influences and Mentorship 15:25  Family Legacy and Influence 17:41  Learning from Team Members 21:29  Applying Quality Management Principles 24:07  Navigating Non-Linear Leadership Paths 24:20  Finding Purpose in Mission and Relationships 28:06  The Importance of Family Support 30:08  Navigating Leadership as a Woman 34:30  Legacy and Impact in Public Service 36:29  Unexpected Paths: Serving in Congress 41:03  Lessons in Collaboration and Leadership   ABOUT DR. WILSON - IMAGES AND BIO COURTESY OF UTEP BIO Dr. Heather Wilson became the 11th President of The University of Texas at El Paso in 2019 after serving as Secretary of the United States Air Force. She is the former president of the South Dakota School of Mines & Technology, and she represented New Mexico in the United States Congress for 10 years.  Active in community and national affairs, she is a member of the National Science Board, which oversees the National Science Foundation, and serves as a board member of the Texas Space Commission. She was the inaugural Chair of the Alliance of Hispanic Serving Research Universities, and is a member of the board of directors of Lockheed Martin Corporation. Dr. Wilson is the granddaughter of immigrants and was the first person in her family to go to college. She graduated from the U.S. Air Force Academy in the third class to admit women and earned her master's and doctoral degrees from Oxford University in England as a Rhodes Scholar. UTEP is located on the U.S.-Mexico border – in the fifth largest manufacturing region in North America – and serves over 24,000 students with 170 bachelor's, master's and doctoral degree programs in nine colleges and schools. In the top 5% of public universities in the United States for research and designated a community-engaged university by the Carnegie Foundation, UTEP is America's leading Hispanic-serving university. It is the fourth largest research university in Texas and serves a student body that is 84% Hispanic. President Wilson is an instrument rated private pilot. She and her husband, Jay Hone, have two adult children and two granddaughters. Dr. Heather Wilson served as the 24th Secretary of the Air Force and was responsible for the affairs of the Department of the Air Force, including the organizing, training and equipping and providing for the welfare of 660,000 Active-Duty, Guard, Reserve and civilian forces their families. She provided oversight of the Air Force's annual budget of more than $132 billion and directs strategy and policy development, risk management, weapons acquisition, technology investments and human resource management across a global enterprise. Dr. Wilson has more than 35 years of professional experience in a range of leadership and management roles in the military, higher education, government and private industry. Before assuming her current position, Dr. Wilson was president of the South Dakota School of Mines & Technology, an engineering and science research university. From 1998 to 2009, Dr. Wilson was a member of the U.S. House of Representatives, where she served on the House Armed Services Committee, the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence and the House Energy and Commerce Committee. Before being elected to Congress, Dr. Wilson was a cabinet secretary in New Mexico's state government responsible for foster care, adoption, juvenile delinquency, children's mental health and early childhood education. From 1989 to 1991 Wilson served on the National Security Council staff as director for defense policy and arms control for President George H.W. Bush during the fall of the Berlin Wall and the collapse of the Warsaw Pact. From 1991 to1995 and again from 2009 to 2013 Wilson was in the private sector. In 1991, she founded Keystone International, Inc., a company that did business development and program planning work for defense and scientific industry. She served as a senior advisor to several national laboratories on matters related to nuclear weapons, non-proliferation, arms control verification, intelligence and the defense industrial base. Wilson also served on the boards of two publicly traded corporations as well as numerous advisory and non-profit boards.   CONNECT WITH DR. WILSON LINKEDIN  |  UTEP     ALL PAST LBL EPISODES  |  ALL LBLPN PRODUCTIONS AVAILABLE ON ALL MAJOR PODCAST PLATFORMS     FULL TRANSCRIPT SPEAKERS Guest:  Dr. Heather Wilson '82  |  Hosts:  Lt. Col. (Ret.) Naviere Walkewicz '99   Naviere Walkewicz  00:00 Welcome to Long Blue Leadership, the podcast where we share insights on leadership through the lives and experiences of Air Force Academy graduates. I'm Naviere Walkowicz, Class of '99. Our story is about a leader who reached heights fellow Air Force Academy graduates had not reached before her, and this was at a time when opportunities to do so were still new. My guest is Dr. Heather Wilson, Class of '82. As you heard, she served as the 24th secretary of the Air Force, but there is a unique distinction attached to that. Dr Wilson, welcome to Long Blue Leadership; we have much to discuss. Let's start with you becoming the secretary of the Air Force, our 24th.   Dr. Heather Wilson  00:37 Yeah, that wasn't part of my life's plan. Secretary Designate Mattis did call me. I was in South Dakota as the president of the South Dakota School of Mines and my cell phone rang and he said, “This is Jim Mattis, and I want to talk to you about becoming secretary of the Air Force.” And honest to goodness, my initial answer was, “Sir, you do know that being a college president is like the best job in America, right?” And he said, “Yeah, I know. I just came from Stanford.” And I said, “I didn't apply for any job. I mean, I like it out... I'm a gal of the West. I like the mountains. I like hiking and biking and fly fishing.” And he said, “Yeah, I know. I grew up on the Columbia River in Washington.” And I thought, “This isn't working,” but we talked several more times, and it was pretty clear that I was being called to serve in a way that I didn't anticipate, but that was what I was supposed to do.   Naviere Walkewicz  01:35 What a transformative moment in your life, I'm sure.   Dr. Heather Wilson  01:38 Well, it was. Again, my entire life, I think, is a diversion from its planned course. But I turned out — I didn't anticipate that, and it meant — my husband doesn't really much like big East Coast cities that rain a lot and have a lot of traffic, and so from a family point of view, it wasn't what we personally wanted to do, but you're called to serve. And we've been called to serve in different ways in our lives and sometimes, even if it feels inconvenient, you're still called to serve. It turned out to be wonderful and I really enjoyed the experience, both of working with Sec. Mattis, but also getting back to spending time with airmen. And so it turned out to be wonderful, but it wasn't what I expected.   Naviere Walkewicz  02:25 Well, you said it, ma'am. As we know, service and leadership aren't linear, and so we're really excited to dive into some of those experiences today. Maybe share, as secretary of the Air Force, some of those moments in leadership that stuck with you. Let's just kind of start there.   Dr. Heather Wilson  02:42 Certainly. There were good days and not so good days. I think one of the things that I really benefited from was that I had a partner in the chief of staff, Dave Goldfein, who was absolutely fantastic. And we've remained very close friends. We started at the Academy the same day and he would joke and tell people that we didn't graduate on the same day because he went stop-out for a year. But we didn't know each other well as cadets, but we were formed by some of the same experiences and I think that helped tremendously. I didn't really understand that in our system of government, the civilian secretary has almost all the authority, but the chief of staff has almost all of the influence. And if you can figure out how to work together, you can get a heck of a lot done. And Dave and I both had that same approach, and it turned out to be a great partnership.   Naviere Walkewicz  03:42 That's pretty incredible. In fact, the time of your service in that role, I was actually working under your umbrella at U.S. STRATCOM. I was at Strategic Command there as a government civilian and as a reservist. And so, I can certainly speak to, I think, some of the amazing things that you did. Can you share a little — you talked about some ups and downs. What was maybe one of the failures as secretary of the Air Force that you learned from that helped you throughout your life?   Dr. Heather Wilson  04:11 Well, I know the day. I think it was Nov. 5, 2017, and it was a Sunday, late morning or early afternoon, and my phone rang. I was upstairs in the study in my row house in Virginia and it was the inspector general, Gen. Syed. And that morning, a young man had walked into a church in Sutherland Springs, Texas, and opened fire and killed a lot of people, and it turned out he had been an airman, and the general said, “You know, we're not sure yet, but he may have been convicted of a crime that would have required us to tell the FBI and the national criminal records check system that he had committed a crime that would not allow him to purchase a weapon, but we may have failed to notify.” We didn't know, we wouldn't know that afternoon but I talked to the chief and we all got together on Monday morning at 9 a.m. and Gen. Syed confirmed that he was an airman, he had been convicted of a domestic violence-related crime, and we had not properly notified the FBI, and as a result, he had been able to buy a weapon. Um, that was not a good day. And we talked about what we should do next, and our general counsel wasn't there — he was traveling that morning, but a more junior lawyer was there, who suggested kind of — and, you know, other people said, well — it actually got worse because there was an IG investigation, an internal audit from several years before, that showed that all of the services were not properly reporting to the national criminal records system. So we hadn't fixed the problem. We knew; we had been informed there was a problem and hadn't fixed it. And some people said, “Well, you weren't here at the time.” That doesn't matter. You wear the uniform, or you wear the cloak of office, and you have to take responsibility for the institution. And of course, the lawyers would say, “Well, you know, maybe you want to fuzz this and not take — you know, there's investigation going on,” or something. But we knew enough of the facts that morning, Monday morning, and Dave Goldfein and I decided to own it, to own the failure and focus on fixing the problem. And we did. And in the short term that was very uncomfortable. We sat in front of the Pentagon press corps and took their questions, and we went to Capitol Hill and informed the members of Congress on what had been done and not been done and why. But in the long term, by owning failure, we were able to focus on fixing the problem rather than just trying to manage responsibility and accountability, and it turned out to be a much better approach. So, sometimes the most important lesson is to own failure.   Naviere Walkewicz 07:09 I'm so glad you shared that, ma'am, because I think some people have a fear of failure, but there are many times when failure is inevitable, and to your point, owning it is the right approach. Something you said when you're sharing that, it made me think about us as cadets and our core values: integrity first. And that really resonated with how your approach was. Would you say that was born for you at the Academy and kind of through your career that's where it stayed, or has that always been part of your fabric?   Dr. Heather Wilson  07:36 I think the Academy was absolutely formative in that way, in the Honor Code. And, you know, integrity first, service before self, and excellence in all we do, now replaces what was there when I was a cadet, over the archway there. But I think that's woven into the fabric for airmen, and it's part of our culture, and it drives you. And I think — you know now we look at, how do we evaluate officers? It's the same way I now evaluate leaders — any leaders that work with me — and it's the way I evaluate myself: accomplish the mission, lead people, manage resources and make your unit better, all on a foundation of values. But it's that last part of it: all on a foundation of values. If you don't have that, the rest of it almost doesn't matter. You can try to make your unit better, but if you're lying about it, nobody's going to trust you. If you're leading people and managing resources, but you don't have integrity, it doesn't matter. So, integrity first, and that commitment to trying to be honest and direct with people builds those relationships of trust, which lasts for decades throughout a career.   Naviere Walkewicz  08:53 Absolutely. And the key word, I think, that foundation you talked about — how has that foundation served you in leadership as you've explored other areas outside of the military, amazing roles leading UTEP, also at the South Dakota School of Mines, in higher education? I'm sure that there's a translation of what that looks like. Can you share maybe an example of how that came into play?   Dr. Heather Wilson  09:15 Sure, it happens all the time. I think in any leadership position, whether you're in corporate life, in community life and a nonprofit, or in higher education, leading with a foundation of values, being honest, complying with the law, following the rules or changing the rules. It doesn't mean — that's one of the things that I think is probably important for leaders. You get to a point as a leader where your job is not just to follow the rules, but to look at the systems and identify the rules that need to be changed, but to be direct and honest about that too. Where it's not “Well, I think this rule doesn't make any sense, so I'm going to skirt it,” or “I'm not going to tell people that I've complied with something and I haven't.” In fact, you know that happened to me this morning. I got a disclosure that I was supposed to sign for a report that was published yesterday to the director of National Intelligence on a committee that I serve on, and they sent this kind of notification on what you can talk about publicly, and all of those things, and I hadn't given up my right to speak publicly about unclassified matters, and I responded, “I understand what you've said. I want to let you know that this is how I interpret this, and this is the way I'm going to act.” I was very direct about it. “I didn't give up my First Amendment rights as a citizen because I worked on your task force.” So, very direct. And I think that directness is something that — not all cultures are that way, including higher education culture. I have to be a little bit careful about that sometimes — the airman's tendency to have a frank debrief isn't always the way other cultures and work cultures are. They're just not always like that, so, I have to be a little bit careful sometimes that I don't crush people's will to live or something.   Naviere Walkewicz  11:13 I was actually thinking about that as you were speaking how, if you have the foundation, especially from the military, we kind of understand that directive approach and certainly those core values that we know of. And I'm curious, how do you adapt as a leader to those who maybe don't have that foundation? How do you bring them up to speed and kind of help them establish that?   Dr. Heather Wilson  11:32 Well, it's a two-way street. It means that I have to understand the culture that I'm in and the way in which I talk with senior faculty may be slightly different than the way I might talk to somebody who just got off a flight line and was too low and slow on final or something, you know? But at the same time with both a sense of humor and a little bit of grace… It was really funny when I was at South Dakota Mines, my provost was a long-time academic. And of course, I had served in Congress for 10 years as well. And he once said something to me that just made me crack up. He said, “You know, you are the least political president I've ever worked with. And the funny thing is, you're the only one that was really a politician.” And he said, “You remind me more of a military officer.” And I thought, “Yeah, that's probably true.” But I was fairly direct as a member of Congress as well. And so, I've just found that that works better for me in life, I guess.   Naviere Walkewicz  12:37 You were sharing how, you know, I think it was the provost that said that you really didn't remind him as someone that was very political, even though you're the only politician he's known. And so what was your time like serving in Congress? I mean, that's 10 years you did, I think, correct?   Dr. Heather Wilson  12:52 I did. And again, I didn't expect to serve in Congress. My predecessor became very seriously ill shortly before the filing deadline for the election that happened in 1998, and my phone rang. It was a Thursday night. This happens to me. I don't know why, but it was a Thursday night, and my phone rang. I was working in Santa Fe, cabinet secretary for Child Welfare, and it was Sen. Pete Domenici, the senior senator for the state of New Mexico. And he said, “You don't know anything about this, but I'm coming to New Mexico this weekend, and I want to talk to you about running for Congress.” Well, that's a quiz; that's not a question. Because a quiz has a right answer, which is, “Sir, I'd be happy to talk to you about whatever you want to talk about.” He's a United States senator. So, we talked about all kinds of things, and he called me from the airport when he was heading back to Washington that Sunday night, and he said, “Look, if you will run, I will help you.” And I decided to run. It was eight days before the filing deadline. I talked to my predecessor — he was fighting skin cancer — and said, “Look, why don't you just focus on fighting cancer? Two years from now, if you want to run again, you can have this seat back. I'll try to do my best for the next two years.” And then 30 days later, he died. I mean, you're not supposed to die of skin cancer. And so, I ended up serving for 10 years in the Congress in a very difficult swing district that I probably shouldn't have won in the first place. But I enjoyed the service part of it. I enjoyed the policy work part of it — intellectually challenging. Some of the partisan silliness I didn't like very much. And then when I left the Congress, ran on successfully for the Senate and became a university president. One of the great things — I tell people now that I was released from Congress early for good behavior. But it was nice to be in a town where people were waving at me with all five fingers. I mean, it was wonderful. So, I enjoyed the service, and I enjoyed a lot helping people — doing casework and things. But it was also a little bit less of a partisan time where you could try to listen and learn and serve well and try to serve your constituents without just being under attack mercilessly and in social media, or something. It was maybe perhaps a different age.   Naviere Walkewicz  15:25 Well, I chuckled when you said waving with all five fingers. That got a good one out of me. I thought about when you're in that, because that wasn't something you were looking to do, and this seems to be a bit of a theme in your leadership trajectory as well. You've kind of been tapped on the shoulder, and you know, for the ones that you didn't apply for or run for, plan for, have been such transformative positions in your life.   Dr. Heather Wilson  15:50 Yeah, and I think maybe that happens to people more than we might acknowledge, because when we're planning our lives, we think we know what's going to happen, but in reality, we adapt to situations that develop and opportunities open that you didn't know were there or someone asked you to take on a special project and that leads you in a direction that you didn't anticipate. So while mine seem particularly unusual in these very different chapters of my life, I don't think it's all that unusual. We just look forward and project in straight lines, and when we look backward, we tell a story in a narrative and it's not always a straight line. But I've been blessed to be asked to do some things. And perhaps in our relationship, my husband and I, he doesn't like change. I love it, and so in our relationship, he's kind of the keel and I'm kind of the sail, and together, we go places.   Naviere Walkewicz  16:56 That's awesome. And I think that particular time and journey in your career serving in Congress was probably one that you established new tools in your leadership toolbox. Were there any that particularly stood out — moments, either when you were having to, you know, forge new policy or achieve things that you hadn't prior? Because Congress is a kind of different machine.   Dr. Heather Wilson  17:21 Yeah, it's a very big committee, and it's not executive leadership. And so I'm probably more predisposed to executive leadership than just being on committees. It takes a very long time to get anything done in Congress, and our government is intentionally designed that way to protect us from tyranny. So you have to take that philosophical approach to it, even if you're frustrated day to day. I did learn how to get things done by giving other people credit. And there were several times — the changes to the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act is probably one example — where I had sponsored legislation in the House. It had taken quite a bit of time — changing Congress. There were continued problems, and I went to others and tried to put them in positions of leadership and support them. And ultimately, it was a Senate bill that passed, but which had been shaped in the background by multiple people, including me, and I was OK with that. And the same thing happened on pieces of legislation about public lands in New Mexico. I remember I came out in favor of doing something in northern New Mexico with respect to some public lands, and I got out ahead of Pete Domenici and he was not happy about that. He was very clear about not being happy about getting a little bit ahead of him on it. But in the end, the piece of legislation there that was signed, and another one on Zia Pueblo were Senate bills. They weren't House bills. But I had moved things forward on the House side, and it didn't matter to me that that it said “S” rather than “H” in front of the name of the bill. So as long as you don't really care about who gets the credit, you can get a lot done in the Congress.   Naviere Walkewicz  19:11 That is a powerful lesson. And somewhere in the back of my mind, I think there's a Contrails quote, and I can't remember all of it, but I remember the end of it is, “…if you don't care who gets the credit.”   Dr. Heather Wilson  19:11 Yeah, that was probably one of the short ones. Schofield's quote was — we all did pushups for those.   Naviere Walkewicz  19:30 Yes, I had a starting moment. I was about to get down…   Dr. Heather Wilson  19:35 … and start to sweat…   Naviere Walkewicz  19:37 … and take my punishment. That was wonderful, ma'am. I'm glad we actually went back and did that journey.   Dr. Heather Wilson  19:42 When I think about my service in the Congress, where I made the most difference, it was in committee work, and particularly on the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence, where I served for a significant amount of time, including post-9/11. And I think that work, because the Intelligence Committee, most of it is in private, it's dealing with really hard, really important issues, and you don't bring your staff there. You have to do the work. And I think probably that's where I did some of my most important work as a member of Congress, was in Intelligence.   Naviere Walkewicz  20:18 Thank you for sharing that. Who are some other influencers, some key influencers in your life, that have maybe walked alongside you or helped you in these different roles that you've carried in your amazing career.   Dr. Heather Wilson  20:31 Oh, they're different people at different times, but certainly as a young person, my grandfather was very important to me. My grandfather had been one of the first flyers in the RAF in World War I, and then came to America in 1922 and flew in the Second World War for what became the Civil Air Patrol. So he did sub search off the Atlantic coast, and varied parts, around to bases, in New England. So, he was important to me as a child. My dad died when I was young. My dad also had been enlisted in the Air Force. He was a crew chief and also a pilot, commercial pilot, after he got out of the service. So I grew up around airplanes and my grandfather was very important to me, and there were other people along the way. When I was a cadet, there was a group commander, Lieutenant Colonel — it's funny, you still remember… anyone who remembers my middle initial, I know it's like, “Oh, this may not be good,” but Robert L. Rame, Lt. Col. Robert L. Rame was the 4th Group commander and my first Air Officer Commanding. General — sorry, Maj. William S. Reeder. He was an Army officer and had been a prisoner of war in Vietnam. Really, I was terrified of disappointing him. It's funny, I just got a Christmas card from him. Life's long, right?   Naviere Walkewicz  21:53 Wow. What connections. I'd like to kind of go back a little bit to your grandfather. You said he was really important to you in your life. Can you share maybe some of the ways he influenced you? Obviously, you're third-generation aviator in your family. Is that how you knew you're going to go into service?   Dr. Heather Wilson  22:08 Well, the Academy wasn't an option until I was a junior in high school, and so I knew I was going to college, but I didn't really think about where. And then they opened the Air Force Academy to women when I was a junior in high school. So, my grandfather had two sons, and he had five grandsons, and me. But he was pretty — I would say — the way he might say it is he was pretty sweet on me; he and I were very close. We used to play chess after school when I was in high school, and I remember once we just finished playing chess, and I was a senior in high school — so, my grandfather was an aviator; he was also a mechanic. He could use any tool, I mean, he was just amazing with his hands. And I had learned a new tool in school, and I took out a piece of graph paper and I drew a drew a curve, and I said, “Grandpa, do you think you could find the area under this curve?” And he said, “Well, I'd probably count up the squares and estimate from there on the graph paper.” And I then I showed him something new and it was called calculus, and it was the first time in my life that I realized I had a tool that my grandfather didn't have. He had a high school education and had gone into the RAF during the First World War, and he was a great mechanic and a really good man, but I realized that there were opportunities for me that maybe my grandfather never had.   Naviere Walkewicz  23:56 I actually got chill bumps when you shared that. Pretty powerful. Thank you so much. Can you talk about, throughout your career — you said if people remember your middle initial, and I'm sure that many on the military side would, because you're amazing… Have you learned from anyone maybe that is not a mentor of you, but someone that has kind of come under your wing? Can you share some leadership lessons that you've learned from those serving alongside and under you?   Dr. Heather Wilson  24:24 Oh my gosh, I learn stuff every day from the people whom I'm privileged to work with. And one of the things that I learned over time was, and as you get more senior, the most important thing you do as a senior leader is hire good people who know things that you don't know, because it's not possible to know everything you need to know to lead a large organization. So, you have to organize yourself well and then get great people and let them do their job. So, I learn things every day. I was interviewing somebody yesterday that we're trying to attract to come to the university who is on the communication side of things — marketing and communication and branding. And you know that creative, visual side of my brain, if you did a brain scan, it would be like a dark hole. That's not a strength of mine. And so those kinds of things are — you have to realize what your strengths are, and then to fill in the team and put together a team, which together can accomplish the mission.   Naviere Walkewicz  25:34 I'd say your grandfather is still kind of, you know, influencing that. It's almost like you're filling your toolbox with all those areas.   Dr. Heather Wilson  25:43 That's funny you use that word. I've told this story before, but my father was both a pilot and a mechanic, and he built an experimental aircraft in our house, and we lived on this, kind of the last house that they would plow to on the end of the road in the winter, right? So, in a very small town, and at that time, there were still traveling salesmen, and the Snap-on tools guy would come probably every six weeks or so, and he had this, like red truck with an accordion thing on the back that looked just like the toolbox in the corner of the garage, right? And we knew that when the Snap-on tools guy came, do not go out. I mean, it was like Christmas for my dad. Do not interfere when the Snap-on tools guy is there. And so he'd go out and lean against the truck, and we could see him laughing and stuff. And eventually my dad would reach in his pocket and pull out his billfold and give the guy a bill, and he'd go back, and he'd lift up the back of the accordion thing and reach in there and give my dad a tool. And my dad would — then the truck would back out, and go on to his next stop. But my dad would take that tool and we'd scramble into the garage to see what he got and stuff. And my dad would usually put that tool in the box in the corner and then go back to what he was doing that day, working on his car or whatever he was doing. And it occurred to me that my dad didn't need that tool that day, but he collected tools, and someday he'd need that tool. And I think great leaders collect tools even when they don't need them today, because they're going to be times when you bring everybody to — you know, there's that great scene in Apollo 13, but it happens around the staff and Cabinet table, and it'll happen in your planning room as a pilot where you've got a new problem, and everybody brings in their tools and says, “OK, how can we make a carbon monoxide filter, or carbon dioxide filter, out of what we've got here on the table?” So, collect tools. And I think that's one of the things I learned from my dad.     Naviere Walkewicz  28:00 Oh, that is an amazing story. Can you share maybe a tool that you've had in your toolbox, that you learned way back when, maybe at the Academy, or as a young girl, that you've recently pulled out and used?   Dr. Heather Wilson 28:12 Well, one of them — I'm not so sure it's recent, but when I was a small business owner, there was a group in New Mexico called Quality New Mexico, and they taught small business owners the Baldrige Principles for quality management. And then I ended up being the Cabinet secretary for child welfare in New Mexico. So, I took over a foster care system, which was under a federal consent decree for not getting kids forever homes and an overly crowded juvenile justice system. I mean, every intractable social problem was — I realized after a while why I became Cabinet secretary for child welfare, because nobody else wanted that job. I mean it was a really difficult job, but I had these tools on quality management. I thought, “I think we can apply these same principles to improving foster care, to improving the juvenile justice system.” And so we did, and there's some things I was proud of there, but one of my last acts as Cabinet secretary before I ended up leaving and running for Congress was to sign the end of the federal consent decree that had been in place for 18 years that said that the state was not getting foster kids forever homes. We changed the system, but we did it using those quality management principles, which I had learned as a small business owner almost as a lark. So, there's one example. But, you know, we just went through a global pandemic. It was very much a pickup game. Nobody had ever been through that. So, we all got together and figured out how we could use the tools we had, including the research capability on my campus to be able to sequence DNA so that we could do testing on campus and get the results, ultimately, within six hours and then feed that back so we could detect disease before someone was symptomatic, so you could suppress disease on campus for those who had to be on campus. There's some things you can't do remotely. And so, we had our own testing system on campus, which was remarkable. Well, why'd we have that? Because we had some tools in the box.   Naviere Walkewicz  30:37 Well, you've used those tools amazingly as you've navigated your career. How would you say that — because yours is… we talked about not being linear. It's kind of been multiple paths and…   Dr. Heather Wilson 30:50 Different chapters.   Naviere Walkewicz 30:51 Yes, I love that. Different chapters. How would you say that you've navigated leadership through that? And has there been a thread that's been common through all those different chapters that you've…   Dr. Heather Wilson  31:04 Yeah, we talked a little about integrity, and that certainly is there. But I when, when people say things like, you know, “Why are you at UTEP?” Or, “Why did you shift to higher ed?” Or, “Why did…” The mission matters so developing people matters. Defending the country matters. So, a mission that matters with people I like. And I realized that when you get down to it, you should do things that matter with people you like and if that's your filter, as long as you can put food on the table, there's a lot of different things you can do, but it should be something that matters with people you like. Otherwise, that time between 8 a.m. and 5 p.m. can seem forever unless you're doing something you like.   Naviere Walkewicz  31:49 That is a powerful thread. Mission matters with people you like. How has your family supported you through this?   Dr. Heather Wilson  31:56 I live a blessed life. I tell this to students, and probably, as a younger woman, I wouldn't have said these things because I was so focused on being taken seriously, I suppose. But, I lightened up after time and realized, OK, I'm probably too serious. But the most important decision I've made in my life is not to go to the Academy or to run for Congress or to become a college president — none of those things are the most important decision I've made in my life. The most important decision I made in my life was to marry the guy I married. I married a guy who's actually retired Air Force now, but he was a lawyer. Despite that, he's a nice guy and sometimes, I think, particularly for women, there's always that fear that you're going to sit down when you're in a getting into a serious relationship, and it's going to be one of those conversations that says, “OK, we're thinking about making this permanent. Who's going to give up her career?” And it's not really a conversation, or at least maybe it wasn't in my era, but Jay never had that conversation with me. It was always we could do more together than either of us could do alone, and he has been so supportive of me. And, yeah, vice versa. But I had to go back east for something last week, and I knew that even in this big reception that I was in with all these people, that he wasn't going to be there, and if he was, he'd still be the most interesting guy in the room. So, I married well, and my family always — we're a very close family. And I think while my obligations to my family didn't end at the front porch, my family gave richness and dimension to my life that I never really anticipated as a young woman, and it's given me joy. Success seemed possible to achieve; joy always seemed like a gift from God, and I have had joy because of my family.   Naviere Walkewicz  34:18 Thank you for sharing that. You talk about when you're hiring, you choose people that kind of fill gaps, but it sounds like, also on your personal team, you want to make sure that you're choosing it, you know...   Dr. Heather Wilson  34:30 Yeah, you're going to be roommates for a long time. That matters. And there's the things that you just kind of have to get over. You know, I'm not going to clean around his sink, and he's not going to be bothered about the fact that my closet's color coordinated. I mean, we just live with that, right?   Naviere Walkewicz  34:49 I appreciate that about you so much. You talked a minute ago about some things you learned about yourself as a leader. You know, “Not take myself too seriously.” Can you share a little bit more about that journey on your own, like that personal leadership journey that you've made?   Dr. Heather Wilson  35:07 Yeah, and I think it's easier as you go on. And honestly, very early on, I was very often the only woman in the room, and so I wanted to be taken seriously. I was also very often the youngest person in the room. And so those two things made me want to be taken seriously. As I went on and got more responsibility, I realized that the truth is I am a very serious and successful woman. My husband would say that I was raised in the home for the humor impaired, and that I've been in therapy with him for over 30 years. So, I gradually learned to see the humor in life. I still am not one that stands up and tells jokes or something, but I see the humor in life and I don't take myself too seriously. The person that I watched who used self-deprecating humor better than any leader I've ever seen was actually Dave Goldfein. Everyone knew when he walked into a room, or if he stood up on a stage at a town hall meeting with a bunch of airmen or something — everybody knew that they were gonna laugh. At some point in that meeting we're gonna laugh, and not at someone else's expense, but at his. And it made people relax around him. He was very, very good at it. But I also knew that his self-deprecating humor was really a cover for exceptional competence, and I never underestimated that, but it made people relax and brought a little bit of joy to whatever intractable problem we were looking at.   Naviere Walkewicz  36:51 Well, you shared about sometimes when you're coming up through your leadership, you were often the only woman in the room and sometimes the youngest in the room. What would you like to share on your thoughts of what has that impact been, and what do you see as your legacy?   Dr. Heather Wilson  37:07 Well, there were some times, particularly early on, when women flying or women in positions of command was new, where you just had to do the job and realize that you were probably changing attitudes as you went and that it would be easier for those who came after you, and that's OK. I don't see that as much anymore. Although, when I was elected to Congress, I think probably 10% to 15% of the House was women. Now it's more than that, and once it gets to be more than 30% in any room, it doesn't sound — it's almost like you walk into a restaurant where it's all guys or all women, and you notice the difference in the room, the tones of the voices and things. Once you get to about a third, it feels like it's comfortable, but early on, I always was very conscious of it and conscious of the obligation to do well, because I was being judged not only for myself, but for an entire group of people. And so, I was sensitive to that, and wanted to make sure that I didn't, like — “Don't shame the family,” right? So make sure that you keep the doors open. As far as legacy is concerned, and I think back in my time as Air Force secretary, I would say there's two things that I hope linger, and they have so far. One is a change to the promotion system to make sure that we have the right kind of talent to choose from at all levels in the organization, and so that, I think, has continued to persist. And the other one that will be changed over time and has to be changed over time, had to do with the science and technology strategy of the Air Force and the need to stay ahead of adversaries. I think this is a completely separate conversation, but I actually think that that we are at greater risk of scientific and technical surprise today than at any time since the end of the Second World War. And if you go back and read books about engineers of victory, or there's a whole lot of books about how science and technology was brought to bear in prevailing in the Second World War. I think we're at risk now in a way that we've kind of become complacent about. So, science and technology strategy is something that I hope is a legacy.   Naviere Walkewicz  39:36 That's amazing, ma'am. And I think not only for our military, but you're able to influence that in the spaces that you are now.   Dr. Heather Wilson  39:43 Yeah, engaging the next generation, which is a heck of a lot of fun. You know, the University of Texas at El Paso is a wonderful institution — 25,000 students, half of them are the first in their families to go to college. About 70% or so come from families making less than about $45,000 a year. So, this is a university that transforms lives, and it's a university that — of my 25,000 students, over 5,000 are studying engineering. Another couple thousand are studying science, College of Nursing, College of Education. This has a tremendous impact on the region and on the lives of those who choose to educate themselves. And so it's a wonderful mission to be part of, and I think it's important for the nation. I think regions of the world who choose to educate their people in the 21st century will thrive, and those that don't are going to be left behind, and that's why I do what I do.   Naviere Walkewicz  40:44 Well, it clearly aligns with your foundation and your mission, ma'am, and I think that's outstanding. We're going to ask for Dr. Wilson's final thoughts next, but before we do, I'd like to take a moment and thank you for listening to Long Blue Leadership. The podcast publishes Tuesdays in both video and audio and is available on all your favorite podcast platforms. Be sure to watch, listen and subscribe to all episodes of Long Blue Leadership at longblueleadership.org. So, Dr. Wilson, I would love to take a moment to gather some of your final thoughts, what you'd like to share today.   Dr. Heather Wilson  41:21 Well, assuming that most of the folks who listen to this are either cadets or young officers or grads, I leave them with one thought, and that is, don't shame the family. Don't shame the family. People will look up to you because you are an Air Force Academy graduate, or you are an Air Force cadet. The standard is higher, so live up to the standard.   Naviere Walkewicz  41:50 Ma'am, we started with you being direct. You ended direct. I think that is amazing. Thank you very much. Thanks for being on Long Blue Leadership.   Dr. Heather Wilson  41:58 My pleasure.     KEYWORDS leadership, Air Force Academy, integrity, mentorship, quality management, Dr. Heather Wilson, military service, personal growth, career journey, unexpected opportunities, leadership, integrity, family support, women in leadership, public service, legacy, mission-driven, personal growth, collaboration, Congress     The Long Blue Line Podcast Network is presented by the U.S. Air Force Academy Association and Foundation    

Greg Whaley grew up an AF brat and came to USAFA from Eielsen AFB, Fairbanks, AK. Greg got a summer stint in the NCO program at Wright Pat and 3rd Lt in Germany. Many semesters on the Dean's List earned him UPT at Williams. His USAF career took him into SAC and bomber pilot at Loring (Maine), Fairchild ( Spokane), a Master's in OPs Research at AFIT, HQ SAC (Offut), aircraft commander at McConnell (Kansas) & Lajes in the Azores (middle of the Atlantic Ocean), His next and final assignment was to the DC area where he retired, achieved his Wharton MBA and entered the world of government consulting. Stops at SAIC & General Dynamics planted the seed of his own business which became Academy Solutions Group. 20 years later, after landing on the Inc 500 list three times (2011, 12, 13) he successfully sold the company and retired again. He discusses his current position that many of us are also doing.

Retired NASA Astronaut Lieutenant General Susan Helms reflects on her 211 days in space and life onboard a young International Space Station.In this episode, Susan takes us through her groundbreaking journey as the first active-duty woman officer to become a NASA astronaut. She discusses attending the United States Air Force Academy, flight testing fighter jets, her five space missions, and a record-breaking spacewalk. This one is going to be cool!Key Takeaways:Susan's childhood dream was to attend the United States Air Force Academy. At the time, women were not permitted to learn at the USAFA, but in 1975 during her senior year of high school, President Ford signed a law allowing women to enroll. She applied and was accepted to the Academy, joining 157 other women in the first class of 1976.After graduating from the USAFA in 1980, Susan was assigned to Eglin Air Force Base as an F-16 Weapons Separation Engineer and then became the Lead Engineer for F-15 weapons separation. She then transferred to Edwards Air Force Base to be a Flight Test Engineer.While flight testing CF-18s in Canada, Susan was selected to become a NASA astronaut. She flew on STS-54, 64, 78, 101, and Expedition 2.Susan and crewmate Jim Voss trained and studied languages in Moscow with fellow Cosmonaut Yuri Usachov before their Expedition 2 flight.On a few of her missions, Susan operated the Remote Manipulator System on the Space Shuttle and the International Space Station. This robot arm is used to deploy satellites, capture objects, and assist astronauts during spacewalks.In 2001, Susan Helms and Jim Voss set a world record after spacewalking for 8 hours and 56 minutes. This record was held for 23 years before Chinese astronauts Cai Xuzhe and Song Lingdong broke it in 2024 by 10 minutes.Susan encourages listeners to do what they love and not to follow careers that others are pushing them towards.Resources:Susan Helms' Website Susan Helms' NASA Bio Susan Helms' Air Force Bio One of first female Air Force Academy graduates, Susan Helms, becomes first female military astronaut in space (Denver 7) Expedition 2 (NASA)(00:00) - Intro (01:00) - The First Space Tourist & Astronaut Roles (02:55) - Early Interest in Aviation (03:34) - USAFA Application (04:52) - The USAFA's First Class of Women (05:54) - Attending the USAFA (08:01) - F-15 & F-16 Weapons Testing (09:52) - The Flight Test Engineer Role (11:14) - Flight Testing in Canada (13:00) - Astronaut Selection & First Mission (14:45) - Flying at Mach 25 (15:32) - The Remote Manipulator System (RMS) (18:19) - Astronaut Training in Moscow (21:04) - A Record-Breaking Spacewalk (24:54) - Eating & Drinking During Spacewalks (26:17) - Living in Space (28:35) - Post Astronaut Career (30:22) - Space Exploration's Future (32:02) - Life Advice (32:45) - Outro

This episode you meet Larry Weaver. AF brat from Ft Walton Beach who turned down ROTC scholarship to got to the AFA prep school. Figured out how to beat the Dean and Commandant enough to land on the Sup's list but also got a CDB Firstie year. Upon graduation became a B-52 pilot, USAFA prof of history, and Assoc Dean at Maxwell. His PHD in history from Indiana U led him away from the cockpit eventually as did several assignments and papers at the Pentagon. He also graduated with distinction from the Naval War College where he teaches today. Larry has a great sense of humor and is proud of his CS - 21 classmates who also excelled academically winning top academic squadron all three of his upper class years at the zoo. Quite a contrast to the Pinks!

In this episode of Long Blue Leadership, Co-Hosts Naviere Walkewicz and Wyatt Hornsby reflect on the leadership lessons shared by accomplished graduates of the U.S. Air Force Academy over the first two seasons.   SUMMARY The hosts highlight key moments and insights from various guests, emphasizing the importance of personal connections, resilience, and the role of mentorship in leadership. They discuss the unique experiences of leaders like Coach Troy Calhoun, Brigadier General Gavin P. Marks, Nicole Malachowski, Madison Marsh, Lieutenant General BJ Schwedo, and Carl Falk, showcasing how their journeys can inspire others in their leadership paths.   SHARE THIS EPISODE LINKEDIN  |  FACEBOOK   TAKEAWAYS  - Leadership is deeply personal and requires understanding your people.  - The importance of resilience and the ability to bounce back from setbacks.  - Mentorship plays a crucial role in developing future leaders.  - Building relationships is essential in leadership roles.  - Knowing your craft enhances credibility and effectiveness as a leader.  - Leadership is about doing good and positively impacting others' lives.  - Embracing vulnerability can lead to personal and professional growth.  - It's important to risk failure in pursuit of big dreams.  - Support from family and mentors can shape one's career trajectory.  - Leaders should encourage others to pursue their passions and dreams.   CHAPTERS 00:00 Celebrating Leadership Lessons from the Air Force Academy 02:11 Highlighting Coach Troy Calhoun's Leadership Philosophy 08:09 Insights from Brigadier General Gavin P. Marks 12:59 Nicole Malachowski: Overcoming Setbacks and Embracing Dreams 19:09 Madison Marsh: A Journey of Resilience and Purpose 23:27 Lessons from Lieutenant General BJ Schwedo on Future Conflict 28:23 Karl Falk: The Importance of Support and Grit in Leadership   ABOUT THE HOSTS BIOS LT. COL. (RET.) NAVIERE WALKEWICZ '99 Senior Vice President, Engagement With over two decades in leadership roles, my current focus at the Association of Graduates - U.S. Air Force Academy is fostering a robust network of 50,000+ alumni. This commitment involves igniting a culture of engagement and inclusivity, underpinned by a strong foundation in support of our Air Force Academy. - BIO COPY CREDIT:  LINKEDIN.COM MR. WYATT HORNSBY Senior Vice President, Marketing & Communications | Executive Editor & Writer Wyatt Hornsby is passionate about developing marketing and communications talent and cohesive, high-performance teams. He is senior vice president of marketing and communications at the Air Force Academy Foundation and the Association of Graduates. He leads the work of the foundation and alumni association marketing and communications division, while also coordinating with various Air Force Academy offices, including Public Affairs and Strategic Communications. - BIO COPY CREDIT:  LINKEDIN.COM   ALL PAST LBL EPISODES  |  ALL LBLPN PRODUCTIONS AVAILABLE ON ALL MAJOR PODCAST PLATFORMS   CONNECT WITH THE LONG BLUE LEADERSHIP PODCAST NETWORK TEAM Send your feedback or nominate a guest at: socialmedia@usafa.org TED ROBERTSON:  Ted.Robertson@USAFA.org  Multimedia and Podcast Specialist | LBL Podcast Network Producer and Editor RYAN HALL:  Ryan.Hall@USAFA.org  Assistant Director of Multimedia Production | LBL Podcast Network Director BRYAN GROSSMAN:  Bryan.Grossman@USAFA.org Senior Director of Strategic Communications and Publications | LBL Podcast Network Copy Editor WYATT HORNSBY:  Wyatt.Hornsby@USAFA.org  Senior Vice President, Marketing & Communications | Executive Editor & Writer | LBL Podcast Network Executive Producer   FULL TRANSCRIPT SPEAKERS Co-Hosts:  Lt. Col. (Ret.) Naviere Walkewicz '99  |  Mr. Wyatt Hornsby Guests:  Coach Troy Calhoun '89; Brig. Gen. Gavin P. Marks '96; Col. (Ret.) Nicole Malachowski '96;  2nd Lt. Madison Marsh '23; Gen. BJ Schwedo '87; Mr. Karl Falk '98, Mr. Ted Robertson    Naviere Walkewicz 00:20 Welcome to our Long Blue Leadership retrospective. We're celebrating our first two seasons and the countless leadership lessons shared by some of the most accomplished United States Air Force Academy graduates.   Wyatt Hornsby 00:31 Naviere, seasons 1 and 2 have showcased amazing leadership stories and takeaways. From the very start, Long Blue Leadership has given listeners an inside look at real experiences, insights and advice from seasoned leaders, as well as those just beginning their leadership journeys. These deep dives have explored how leaders not only face challenges head-on but also find ways to inspire and empower those around them.   Naviere Walkewicz 00:58 Yes, what really sets this podcast apart is the mix of our guests' perspectives on leadership. These discussions have touched on teamwork, perseverance, humility, excellence and service before self.   Wyatt Hornsby 01:12 In this edition of Long Blue Leadership, we're sharing a few of our favorite moments. Not easy, because there are so many. Plus, we'll give you a preview of Season 3, which launches soon.   Naviere Walkewicz 01:23 And so, without further ado, Wyatt, let's get into our Long Blue Leadership podcast.   Wyatt Hornsby Let's do it, Naviere.   Naviere Walkewicz Some of our favorite moments. This was not easy to do at all.   Wyatt Hornsby 01:33 Indeed, it was not easy. Two seasons — and Naviere, while we're at it, I just want to congratulate you; awesome job on hosting Long Blue Leadership, and also a little plug for our friend Doug Lindsay as well for doing a great job as host.   Naviere Walkewicz 01:46 It's been an amazing journey, and I think the biggest thing for me has been just being able to share some of the stories of our graduates. So, like we said, picking just a few of them was really hard, but it's been just a beautiful transformation of where we started and where we're going in Season 3.   Wyatt Hornsby 02:01 It's been wonderful storytelling, and I hope that our listeners have been able to take away some great actionable insights for their own leadership journeys, whether they're Academy graduates or others seeking to develop as leaders.   Naviere Walkewicz 02:13 I know I personally took some things away from all of these conversations. I think some of them we'll highlight today.   Wyatt Hornsby 02:18 Wonderful. Let's do it. Looking forward to it.   Naviere Walkewicz 02:21 So, I think you might have the first one you wanted to highlight.   Wyatt Hornsby 02:24 So Naviere, as we said, I mean, it's so difficult to find our favorites. I mean, there are just so many across seasons 1 and 2. But I'm going to tell you, I was so struck by Coach Troy Calhoun, Class of '89. That conversation was absolutely awesome. And a couple of things stood out to me, and we'll listen to a clip from our conversation with Coach Calhoun, but a couple things that stood out to me was, I think a lot of people, when they think about Coach Calhoun and him coming on to do a conversation, they're probably going to expect him to talk about the Xs and Os and strategy and how the Falcons are looking for the season. But in this case, what Coach Calhoun did was he came in and he talked about his own leadership journey all the way from the beginning growing up in Oregon. And I just think that throughout the conversation, we learned a lot about him as a person, his family, his formative experiences. And really what I took away from it additionally, was the unique importance of athletics at the Academy, and how Coach Calhoun and his program, like all sports at USAFA, are developing leaders of character for our Air Force and Space Force. Just an awesome conversation.   Naviere Walkewicz 03:37 It was an awesome conversation. I think it really talks about — one of the things that stood out, I think, in the clip that you picked up is really about how he views leadership and taking care of people. Let's give it a listen.   Wyatt Hornsby Indeed.   Troy Calhoun 03:49 You need to be doing something that you love, that you're passionate about. And the other part is, again, just the involvement that you have with your people. And, you know, to get in there, literally, where you're hip to hip and shoulder to shoulder. And I think sometimes, whether you're in a leadership role or maybe you have a certain rank, you think, “Well, I can't do that in order to maintain my distance professionally.” And I wholeheartedly disagree. I think you have to be able to operate from different perspectives as a leader. I think, clearly, you can still articulate and live the standards that are a part of your operation or your unit or your football program. But again, it's about people.   Naviere Walkewicz 04:46 Well said. It really is.   Wyatt Hornsby 04:47 Well said. Earlier in the conversation too, he had a point where he talked about three things, his philosophy of leadership. You talked to him about his philosophy of leadership. He talked about, as he said in that clip, being right there alongside your people. He talked about knowing your craft incredibly well — not just strategy, but also tactics. And as he mentioned in that clip really well, getting to know your people as humans and what makes them tick. It's easy to, listening to that conversation, it's easy to see why Coach Calhoun has been here for such a long time and been so successful as head football coach.   Naviere Walkewicz 05:25 I think one of the lines I remember him sharing about when we talked about leadership was — I think I asked him, like, “It seems like it's really personal,” and he says, “Absolutely, leadership is personal.” It's about being… understanding who, you know, what's going on in their lives, because if you can understand what they're going through, then you can help them through some challenges and move them to, you know, whatever everyone else is working through together. And so, I really appreciated that he talks about getting to know his people on a personal level, and he challenges all of his coaches to do the same. I think there was a point where he even shared that if he knew some of the team members better than the coaches did, then that was a problem, right? And so, I think he wanted to make sure that being a good leader is knowing who your people are and what they need.   Wyatt Hornsby 06:07 That's right. It's just so instructive and inspiring to those of us who are developing as leaders. And I mean, it goes without saying, college football is changing. It's changing a lot. But I think for Coach Calhoun, he just talks about, as you said, that importance of relationships. And amid all those in college sports, staying focused on the relationship aspect, getting to know his players and his coaches, and remaining hyper-focused on that mission, developing leaders of character for the Air Force and Space Force.   Naviere Walkewicz 06:38 What was something that you took from that personally, that, you know, maybe has evolved the way that you lead or are thinking about leadership?   Wyatt Hornsby 06:46 You know, I'm developing as a leader every day. I've had some tremendous mentors in my life, but I really — I enjoyed what he talked about, about knowing your craft. I think that's really important, because I think it helps you build credibility with those that you lead. Of course, you can't know everything about everything that you lead, but knowing your craft, understanding not just the strategies and the tactics, and I think that helps you build credibility with your team and provide the right leadership to set the vision and the priorities for your team.   Naviere Walkewicz 07:21 I love that. I think what I took from that conversation was really about being humble. I mean, to be where he at is in his career, and I just felt across the table someone who was so humble in every day, learning from everyone around him and trying to really kind of give back in that way. That's something I always want to try and strive to do.   Wyatt Hornsby 07:41 I agree completely. And by the way, he talked about his younger sister, a 10-time all-American, which is pretty incredible. She's also an Academy graduate. And I think if I recall, he said that he looks up to his younger sister. So, I took that away, too. Just a humble, humble leader.   Naviere Walkewicz 07:59 I love that. Well, I'd like to go into one of my favorite moments, and it was with Brig. Gen. Gavin P. Marks, Class of '96, the commandant of the Air Force Academy currently. And this one was special for me, Wyatt, for multiple reasons. I have two cadets, as you know, that are going through the Air Force Academy under his leadership, but he was also my basic cadet commander. So, when I was at the Academy as a four-degree, he was leading us through Basic Cadet Training. And a funny story I'll share with you: When I was later in my career as a civilian working at Offutt Air Force Base. He was the wing commander at office Air Force Base, and I was working at STRATCOM, Strategic Command. I turned around a corner, and I immediately go, “Huh, Gavin P. Marks!” and he started laughing, and he goes, “What year are you?” And I said, “'99,” and he said, “It's good that you still remember my middle initial.” But it stuck out to me and then the funny thing after that, I said, “I never knew you had so many teeth,” because he would scare us. But the reason why this podcast was so special was because I think it brought me to a new level of understanding that — in remembering that we're all human right, and so we all have things that we go through. And so, to hear him from his humble days, talking about his mom, I really just enjoyed his perspective on, you know, his career, which wasn't necessarily a trajectory that he was planning. He certainly had some goals of he would love to have been the commandant at the Academy, but it certainly, you know — it kind of moved in a way that we'll talk about in this clip. And so, I'm interested to hear your thoughts on that conversation before we jump into the clip.   Wyatt Hornsby 09:35 He has extraordinary presence — Gen. Marks does. And it came through not just in the podcast conversation. We had a reunion, several reunions, where he provided a senior leader briefing, and you can just feel that presence and that commitment and that dedication to the USAFA mission. And I'm really excited to hear this clip and then also share another thought on something from the conversation that really stuck out to me as well.   Naviere Walkewicz 10:00 All right. Well, let's roll the clip.   Brig. Gen. Marks 10:03 But as you command at higher levels, while the impact — and I probably should have said it this way: The impact that you would have on so many individual airmen's lives lessons, the impact that you can have on an individual airman's life magnifies based on rank. It is significant also, and I always — one of the things that I tell people all the time is, it's an oversimplification, but the only reason to have rank is to do good, is to do good things, to make things happen in a positive way that affect positively mission and benefit airmen's lives. That's it. That's all. And if rank becomes something different than that for you, you're in the wrong business, or we've given it to the wrong person. If I'm being honest with you.   Naviere Walkewicz 10:55 What did you think about when you heard that?   Wyatt Hornsby 10:56 I am glad that he is the commandant of cadets at the United States Air Force Academy. And I think that I would go so far as to say that what he said there probably reflects how many Air Force — probably all — Air Force Academy graduates feel about leadership, that it's an opportunity to do good for other people, to improve lives, to move people forward, to elevate performance, to lift others. So, super powerful.   Naviere Walkewicz 11:24 I think what was also really great about our conversation was how he talked about the importance of family. And I think when you — sometimes when you think about a leader that's made it to such levels in their career, you think, “Well, it's career above everything else.” But he actually talked about how there are a couple of times when he might have retired had he not had the support from his wife and from his family. And I thought that was really insightful as well, where he really consulted them on some of his biggest decisions.   Wyatt Hornsby 11:52 That's right, perhaps his closest and most valued partners in life.   Naviere Walkewicz 11:56 Yes, I think that's something that our listeners can really value. I know I took that to heart as well, because while it is important, and obviously our professional lives are such a huge part of our lives, our lives are much more holistic than that, right? I think having your networks of support and leadership are really important.   Wyatt Hornsby 12:14 I agree. And Naviere, while we're talking about Gen. Marks too, I gotta put in a plug, and I know we're not gonna listen to this clip, but he told an awesome story about a $20 bill and the Honor Code.   Naviere Walkewicz Yes.   Wyatt Hornsby And as I recall, he really talked about how that was one of the experiences that made him see this United States Air Force Academy — it's a unique and different kind of place.   Naviere Walkewicz 12:38 Absolutely, and so if you missed that, it's a great time for you to go back to longblueleadership.org and listen to that clip in its full entirety.   Wyatt Hornsby 12:48 That's right. Let's talk about Nicole Malachowski, Class of 1996. This conversation — it was a recent conversation that you had with her — really stood out to me on a couple of different levels. Even as a child, she set her sights on what she wanted to do in life, which was to become a fighter pilot. She was focused on that, and at the height of her career, she had a very difficult setback that she spoke I thought very openly and vulnerably about. I just really appreciated that. But in this clip that we're going to play, Naviere, and I'd love to hear your reaction before our good friend, producer Ted rolls it, I would love to just hear your thoughts about this clip and just really important advice that a mentor provided to her at a key moment.   Naviere Walkewicz 13:33 I think you teed it up perfectly. I would say, from sitting across the table, what I felt when I heard that was just a sense of pride in remembering that we all bring something to the table, and empowerment in not being afraid to go forward with it. So, let's give it a listen.   Nicole Malachowski 13:51 I remember thinking, “Thank God I didn't put myself out there. Thank God, Nicole,” you know… now I'm a 30-year-old captain, so I'm still a young person. “Thank God you didn't risk failure. Who are you to think you could be a Thunderbird? Silly girl.” Right? And in that moment, the weirdest thing happened, and I tell this story on stage sometimes. The door opened to the Officer's Club, and in walked the wing commander, Brig. Gen. Mark Matthews. And in that moment, over walks my squadron commander, a wonderful man by the name of Dan DeBree. His call sign was “Trash.” Get it? Trash, debris. Trash walks over, super excited, very supportive of my application, and he's like, “Hey, general, did you know Nicole's applying to be a Thunderbird?” Man, I mean, you could have slowed down time. I was like, “Ix-nay on the underbird-tay,” like, “This is terrible.” Neither of these guys knew that I had removed my application, and Dan's standing there all proud. He's my squadron commander, supporting me — a great man, again. And Mark Matthews looks down at me, Gen. Matthews, and he goes, “That's great. How's your application going?” And I'm like — I looked at him, and here's what happened. I said, “You know, so it's hard to be a Thunderbird, but I probably won't get picked. They haven't had a woman, so I don't want to waste anybody's time.”   Naviere Walkewicz Oh, you said everything.   Nicole Malachowski I said it. I said all of it, and this is kind of an embarrassing story to tell, but I'm just, this is the truth, right? This is the vulnerable truth of how this happened. And he looked down at me, and I will never forget this, and I hope folks listening who have big dreams and gnarly goals remember this. He looked down at me and he said, “Nicole.” Actually, he said, “Fifi.” My call sign. “Fifi, nobody wants to lead a scripted life.” And he walked away and left me in extraordinarily uncomfortable silence. And those words, “…nobody wants to lead a scripted life…” have become my life's mantra. Every time I get the knot in my stomach that says that dream is too big or that idea is too innovative, don't rock the boat. I remember what he said, because those words, like, they lifted the weight of the world off my shoulders, told me it was OK to dream big. It was OK to buck the status quo. It was OK to be different. He was telling me it's OK to risk failure in pursuit of personal, professional growth. And it's not so much I think he's telling you and me to write ourselves into the script. What he was saying was, don't ever write yourself out of the script, and as leaders and teammates, don't you ever write anybody else or their wild ideas out of the script either.   Wyatt Hornsby 16:08 That is so powerful. I mean, I know that I have that inner critic, that voice that sometimes tells me, “Write yourself out of the script. You're not good enough. You're not going to make it. Why did you do that?” And probably a lot of us do. Naviere, what do you think?   Naviere Walkewicz 16:24 Oh, definitely. I mean, even up to that, she had had that voice in her head, and she shared, right before that clip, she finally got the courage to go into the group commander's office to submit that package. And, you know, the person working at the desk said, “Well, he really only has one, you know, one slot to give so we don't want to waste it on you.” And I think those very specific words make that inner voice, that inner critic, even louder and just kudos to the wing commander for really kind of right setting, I think a perspective that has clearly shaped her life.   Wyatt Hornsby 16:59 I agree completely. And we just talked about Gen. Marks and how he talked about doing good for others as a leader. And I think that's what we saw here with Gen. Matthews and the story that Nicole shared.   Naviere Walkewicz 17:11 Yes. There were so many amazing moments in her session with me, in her podcast, and so another one that I wanted to call out, because I think many may not know until they listen to her full story, but she actually battled a pretty critical, life-changing disease, and, frankly, she talked about resilience and how resilience is important, but really for her, it was about resurgence. I thought that was pretty powerful in that podcast as well. Did that kind of speak to you in any way?   Wyatt Hornsby 17:42 It really did. And I actually think it kind of goes back to “no one wants to lead a scripted life.” I don't think Nicole definitely had that in the script, her health challenge. But it came, and she spoke very honestly about it, about how difficult it was. She had some really, really difficult days, and she found a way forward. She wrote that new script for what she was going to do with the rest of her life. So, that moment really stuck out to me too. Super powerful conversation, and I got the sense too as I was listening to Nicole — and you did such a great job with that conversation — was that she knows who she is. You can tell that she has thought deeply about who she is as a person, as a leader, and she wants to go out and engage with and inspire other audiences and other leaders. So, really came out beautifully in this conversation.   Naviere Walkewicz 18:34 That was, in fact, I think one of her giving nuggets to others that were listening was really take the time to know who you are and know what you believe in, what you stand for, and then the rest kind of fills in the blanks.   Wyatt Hornsby Well said.   Naviere Walkewicz Well, the next one that I want to speak about is 2nd Lt. Madison Marsh, Class of '23 and Miss America.   Wyatt Hornsby Miss America.   Naviere Walkewicz Miss America. Can we just say that? But what was so great about this particular podcast was, yes, she is Miss America, but we spent so much time getting to know her. And really, I think the depth of who Madison Marsh is, it really kind of blew my mind.   Wyatt Hornsby 19:11 Yes. And similar to Nicole Malachowski — Madison Marsh, she had something really difficult happen to her that she's going to go into in the clip that we talked about, and no one should have to go through what Madison did, but she found a way forward. And I think just her story is remarkably inspiring.   Naviere Walkewicz 19:33 I actually don't want to give it away. I think we should just roll the clip.   Wyatt Hornsby 19:35 Let's do it.   Madison Marsh 19:36 I basically printed out all of my essays that I knew that people had to submit in the past for the Academy. I did resumes. I came with my GPA, everything, and I walked right up to my congressman and I handed it to him, and I said, “I want to go to the Air Force Academy, and I want to be your nominee.” And I'm sure he was like, who's…   Naviere Walkewicz …I love every bit of this…   Madison Marsh So, I was very firm early on, and so we were able to start an incredible relationship with one another. And so, because I did that — I think that was maybe my junior year, early on in my junior year — when it came time my senior year, he fought for me all of the time to get my application in front of people, because I was his principal nominee, and we had a very, very special moment. So, he called me on Oct. 31 and told me that I had gotten early acceptance to the Academy, and so I got to tell my mom, and the next morning she passed away. So having an experience like that is — that's why the Academy and Congressman Womack are so special to me, because that was my dream for years, and my mom got to know before she passed away. And it's just everything happens at the right timing, and you never know until afterwards. And so, now I get to be here; now I get to wear the uniform. And even though she hasn't gotten to see it, she got to know about it. And it just because of those first instances where I marched up to him and I said, like, I want to be here. I got to have experiences like that. And now I get to have wonderful experiences of now serving post-Academy life.   Naviere Walkewicz 21:04 I mean, I think that clip still gives me feelings of in that moment where she shared that because I had known that her mom had passed away. But I think what was so powerful about her sharing that story was in the bit of, you know, believing in yourself, going full for something, and then having someone believe in you and champion you to the point where, when you actually get there, and having her mom spend that with her before she passed. I just — that moment was something really special.   Wyatt Hornsby 21:34 It really is powerful. It must have been an honor and a privilege to have been able to share that moment with Lt. Marsh.   Naviere Walkewicz 21:41 It really was, and I think her whole conversation — what really inspired me, first, the fact that she actually started a foundation in her mom's name, the Whitney Marsh Foundation, but also more so that it actually shaped how she was as a cadet. She talked about, when she had the opportunity to champion others, so, you know, as she progressed in her cadet years, she wanted to make sure that other cadets had someone that they could talk to, so that she would be a voice for them, that she would hear them, and she would see them. And I think that was really powerful, because sometimes she was saying how she had felt lost and how she didn't have that support. And so, she turned it around and made sure that she was that person for someone else.   Wyatt Hornsby 22:19 Another example, Naviere, of someone who uses leadership opportunities to do good for others.   Naviere Walkewicz 22:25 Absolutely. And I thought, what was also fascinating, as such a young officer, she also — to Nicole Malachowski's point — took some time to know herself because she had been groomed, or maybe not groomed is not the right word, but she had, since early times of wanting to go to the Academy, had thought, I'm going to be a pilot and had been working towards her hours and her private pilot's license to get to the point where she could go to pilot training and become a pilot. And said, “Maybe this, this isn't my trajectory,” and looking into policy and so I think to the point of knowing who you are and knowing what you know you're really passionate about. Also, to what Coach Troy Calhoun said, they all kind of weave together. I thought that was really powerful.   Wyatt Hornsby 23:06 Agree. I thought it was very powerful too. And I'm really excited — I'm sure you are too, and a lot of graduates — just to see what she does with her life. I think that she's going to do some great work, and I think we're going to continue to hear about the amazing work that Madison Marsh is pushing forward, whether it's with cancer research and treatments or some other very, very important, worthy cause.   Naviere Walkewicz 23:29 Absolutely. No doubt about that.   Wyatt Hornsby 23:32 All right. Naviere, this next one, this was early Season 1, and our friend Dr. Doug Lindsay hosted this conversation. Doug is Class of 1992. It really stood out to me, and it was a conversation with Lt. Gen. (Ret.) B.J. Shwedo, Class of '87. Remarkable conversation with the director of the USAFA Institute for Future Conflict about the role that graduates are going to continue to play in our nation's security.   Naviere Walkewicz 23:59 I agree. Gen. Shwedo is such a dynamic speaker, and every time I have a chance to hear from him, I learn something new. But maybe for the sake of our listeners, in case they haven't heard that one yet, can you talk about what the IFC is?   Wyatt Hornsby 24:10 The IFC is the Institute for Future Conflict. So, it stood up a couple of years ago at the United States Air Force Academy. And really the goal is to inculcate across the Academy — and I'm not going to do this justice the way Gen. Shwedo can — but to inculcate across the Academy a focus on preparing cadets for what they will be facing amid Great Power Competition and for them to be able to bring that holistic thinking and that multi-domain thinking to how to fight and win the nation's wars if they are called upon.   Naviere Walkewicz 24:45 It's pretty incredible, some of the things that our cadets are exposed to. I remember when I was a cadet, I couldn't imagine have been briefed by some of our combatant commanders and having top-secret clearance levels to understand, really, what the adversary looks like and what we're up against. But they're looking at it across all different domains, and it's preparing our soon-to-be graduates for what's up for them right after.   Wyatt Hornsby 25:11 That's right. And one thing I'll mention before we roll the clip: Like you Naviere, I've heard Gen. Shwedo talk. In fact, we've been in probably many of the same talks, and graduates respond so well to what he shares, and I think it just instills even more confidence in the mission and the priorities of the Air Force Academy. So, without further ado, what do you say we roll that clip?   Naviere Walkewicz Let's roll the clip.   Gen. Shwedo 25:34 What we got to do is make them aware of the environment we're dumping them in. And case in point, I have one cadet he raises his hand like, you know, “Hypersonic missiles — I don't understand what's the big deal about that.” And I go, “OK, well, first of all, yes, they're fast, but as you remember from Physics 110, a ballistic missile trajectory is all mathematics. That's how the Patriot works. Hypersonic missiles can maneuver. So, all your math is now dead,” and go, “Oh, by the way, when you look down the range and you see all those antennas, NORAD, for the most part, was looking up to the north, because the quickest way to get an ICBM to the United States was over the top. You can actually take a hypersonic missile, put it in a low-Earth orbit, and that attack will come out of Antarctica.” Same cadet immediately raises his hand and goes, “So the maneuvering, is that RF, command guy?” and he's immediately trying to get into it. And I'm like, “I love you, man.” Because honestly, when you start making them aware of the threats, they immediately start thinking countermeasures. So, from the leadership standpoint, they understand that piece.   Naviere Walkewicz 26:44 Yes, I think that is huge. And it really talks about understanding what you're up against. I think what I really loved about what Gen. Shwedo said, was having the awareness allowed for them to start thinking about countermeasures. And I think that really does translate to leadership. When you have awareness of things, you can make better decisions. You can think about how you take care of your people better. It just actually translates across so many levels of leadership. What do you think?   Wyatt Hornsby 27:09 I agree completely, and I think too, just spending time with cadets — you would know better than I Naviere, you have two up on the Hill right now — but so curious, so curious. And they're here for a reason. They had choices in where they could have pursued what they wanted to do after high school, and they chose the United States Air Force Academy because they want to serve our country and, if called upon, fight and win those nation's wars. And so, just kudos to the work not only Gen. Shwedo is doing, but the cadets too, who are just so curious and so responsive to that awareness and really thinking deeply and preparing themselves for what the world is confronting the United States and our allies with.   Naviere Walkewicz 27:53 Absolutely. I think, what I really appreciate about Gen. Shwedo as well is he's another graduate that's giving back to our Academy, right? He's facilitating all of these lessons. He's helping to really promote how we can do this better. But it goes to show how our graduates are really involved with our Air Force Academy.   Wyatt Hornsby 28:12 A lifetime of service. I think that's what Gen. Shwedo would say. He came back because he wanted to continue to serve.   Naviere Walkewicz 28:18 Yes, absolutely. Well, the last moment that we'll talk about — and again, this was so hard, because there were so many good ones — comes from Karl Falk, Class of '98 the CEO of Botdoc. And this one was special for me, not only because we were at the Academy together, but I didn't know him then, and I know him now as a parent of also a cadet at the Academy. And his story was so, so incredible. Because when you think of a CEO of anything, you think, “Wow, this person's so accomplished. They've done all of these things.” And, you know, they must be doing great, and he is, but it started from humble beginnings. And when you take the time to listen to his podcast, it will really kind of help you see that you can start from anywhere and achieve anything, just as he did. This particular clip I have picked for us to listen to, though, is about kind of having people in your corner, and when people recognize in you, maybe before you do, how they can champion you. Let's give it a listen.   Karl Falk 29:20 You know, being in Texas, there's more spotlight on football, and I had some very good coaches. My head football coach in high school, Coach Bubba Fife — everyone in Katie knows Bubba Fife — and even to this day, he's still involved in the in the school district. But he was a big advocate for me, with coaches that came by, and there's some stuff I didn't find out until out until later in life where, you know, back then, it wasn't common for the school to provide shoes and, you know, some guys had their own pads and stuff like that. And I remember my mom years later telling me that actually Coach Fife came to her with money and said, “This is, uh — get him some shoes.” Sorry. That got to me a little bit more than I thought it was gonna be. So, I guess what I can say is, there's been a lot of people, I'm where I'm today because of a lot of people throughout my entire life, and I have a lot to be grateful for. But I was very fortunate to have those coaches in my life because — there was actually a time, this is actually a crazy story. There was a time where — so, I was the big, fat tuba player too. So, I kind of did everything because I enjoyed it, but there was a point where I kind of had to make a decision, because I was actually the guy that was playing football, and then, you know, marching band and football, and that's really tough to do. And I had made up in my mind that I was going to quit football, and because, you know, I didn't have a dad around, and my mom wasn't really into sports, like, I am and my kids are now. And I made up my mind, so I went to talk to one of the coaches, Coach Schubert, and, and I told him, I said, “I'm gonna quit football and, you know, I'm gonna be in the band.” And, and he looks at me, he goes, “No!”   Naviere Walkewicz 31:22 Right there. Sometimes the best answer you can get from a boss or a mentor or anybody is, “no.” What do you think, Wyatt?   Wyatt Hornsby 31:29 And by the way, Naviere, I'm trying to figure out the logistics. How do you play football and participate in the band? I played football in high school. I just don't know how you do that.   Naviere Walkewicz 31:40 You probably didn't change your clothes. You probably wore your uniform, though.   Wyatt Hornsby 31:43 Oh my gosh, like, I don't even know how you do that. But no, this was an extraordinary conversation. And you know, one of the things I like about the conversations that you've led and hosted, Naviere, is really going back to the beginning. And my takeaway from that conversation with Karl and that clip that we just played: He's never forgotten where he came from. As you said, he's become very successful in life. He's done well for himself, but he's never forgotten where he came from and who helped him along the way. Sometimes, Naviere, it just takes a pair of shoes.   Naviere Walkewicz 32:19 Oh gosh, that conversation was like I was getting to know someone all over again, because I got to know him as a parent of a fellow cadet. Him and his sons, Alec and Arden, were cadets there at the Prep School, now in the Class of '27, but seeing him through his own eyes, it just opened up a whole new experience for me. And I think one of the things I appreciated about his conversation as well was he talked about some of the tough times in getting to be successful. And while, yes, he had those people in his corner that helped him get there, there were times when — I think he even said, you know, “I didn't pay myself, like we might have missed a meal so that my folks could eat,” when he was still building his business. And I think it talks about the grit and kind of hard work and perseverance it takes to become successful. So, while he never forgot where he came from, he also talked about kind of the path to get there, and just the resilience and all of that in that. And I thought that was a really powerful story he shared.   Wyatt Hornsby 33:13 Agree, and I would suspect that grit and that perseverance, those were formed early in life, but then also really developed when he was here at the Academy. What do you think?   Naviere Walkewicz 33:26 Agree. And I think, and we talked about the lifetime of service that our graduates live. His company has actually given back to the Class of '27 through various ways. And so, I think it really does kind of show how, you know, you never forget where you come from, and then when you can, you give in ways that are meaningful. I think that's really powerful too.   Wyatt Hornsby 33:44 That's right. Well, Naviere, that was an awesome conversation. I just so enjoyed revisiting those conversations, and again, just mad congratulations to you, and thanks to you and Doug for just doing such a great job. I mean, this was tough, choosing the conversations that we just talked about, because there are just so many great ones, so many great ones. And I hope that our listeners will go back and listen to those conversations from seasons 1 and 2. But while they're at it, also tell others about Long Blue Leadership. Help spread the word, because these conversations are really impactful.   Naviere Walkewicz 34:20 Absolutely, and we can really use feedback coming directly to us at socialmedia@usafa.org. That's a way they can directly let us know what they enjoyed, what we can do better and what they can look forward to in Season 3.   Wyatt Hornsby 34:32 That's right. I mean, the podcast space, it's competitive, and there are a lot of great podcast shows out there, and so we know we just have to continue to raise that bar and elevate what we're doing. So, our listener feedback is so important and just continuous improvement and excellence in all we do.   Naviere Walkewicz 34:49 Absolutely. Well, thanks. Wyatt. Well, before we share what's coming up in Season 3, we'd like to take a moment and thank you for listening to Long Blue Leadership. The podcast publishes Tuesdays in both video and audio and is available on all your favorite podcast platforms. Watch or listen to all episodes of Long Blue Leadership at longblueleadership.org.   Wyatt Hornsby 35:11 Naviere, this was a real pleasure. I really enjoyed talking about these awesome episodes from seasons 1 and 2. And while we're at it, let's also thank our good friend Ted, who's done just remarkable work in helping to produce this show. And our listeners may not get to hear much from Ted, but he is behind the scenes doing awesome work on the show.   Naviere Walkewicz 35:32 He really is. Ted makes us look great, and when you say congratulations to me, it's only because Ted has been right alongside me all this way, and Doug, and anyone else that's been part of this podcast. It really has been us working with Ted.   Wyatt Hornsby 35:46 So, Ted, I'm going to put you on the spot. Share with us a little bit about maybe a couple of your takeaways from seasons 1 and 2, and what this process, what this experience has been like for you.   Ted Robertson 35:59 I can think about the first day I walked in the door, had my first eyes on the studio, and I'm thinking, “We're gonna have some fun here. We're gonna touch some lives, and we're gonna do some great things.” And it's been a real privilege to be a part of the communications team. And I talk a lot about the people that I work with, but Naviere, you've become a partner, and together, along with everybody else on the team, we're looking forward to bringing some more of these moments to our listeners and just sharing what leadership is all about. And we want to make it global. So, Season 3 coming and lots of great things to come in Season 3. I hope that sort of answers your question. The highlights for me are working with all of you.   Naviere Walkewicz 36:50 Aww, thanks, Ted. And speaking of what Ted was talking about, Season 3 is coming up. Should we share some of the amazing guests we're gonna have on the podcast?   Wyatt Hornsby 36:59 I think we should, Naviere, I mean, I am like you. I am so excited about Season 3. We've got some amazing names and Naviere. One of our guests is going to be Dr. Heather Wilson, Class of '82, 24th secretary of the Air Force. And she's also currently the president of the University of Texas, El Paso. So cannot wait to have the secretary — I don't know whether to call her Secretary Wilson or Dr. Wilson.   Naviere Walkewicz 37:23 I'm sure I'm going to find out, because I'm so excited to have that conversation with her as well.   Wyatt Hornsby 37:27 Likewise, and Naviere, I think also, we have a classmate who we're going to be talking to?   Naviere Walkewicz 37:31 Oh, we have a couple of classmates, actually. So, one of them, Joel Neeb goes by call-sign “Thor,” — Class of '99, Gold Will Shine — who has been a tremendously successful fighter pilot. He's authored some books, a former CEO, but he dealt with some very specific, I think, health challenges that shaped a new trajectory for him. And I'm not going to give it away. I think that's what they'll learn about in the podcast.   Wyatt Hornsby 37:56 I've had a couple of opportunities to spend time with Thor, and I'm excited about this one too. I think it's going to be an awesome conversation.   Naviere Walkewicz 38:03 Yes. And his is one where it really is about family too. I think we're going to hear some of that. And then my other classmate is with the FBI, so Mark McCulloch, Class of '99, and I think you've actually done a story on him recently on your team.   Wyatt Hornsby 38:17 I think we did a story on him in Checkpoints a couple of years ago, written by Jeff Holmquist. Yeah, I can't wait for this one too.   Naviere Walkewicz 38:26 It's amazing what Class of '99 is doing, but there's others. Who else shall we highlight today, Wyatt?   Naviere Walkewicz 38:43 We also have some young alumni, current board directors that will be speaking to. One of them is a Young Alumni Excellence Award winner, Emma Przybyslawski, Class of 2010.   Wyatt Hornsby 38:51 Can't wait to hear that one. And Emma — so she recently, as you said, received the Young Alumni Excellence Award. And I thought I knew Emma, and I learned a few things about her in our profile of her. So, that's going to be an awesome conversation.   Naviere Walkewicz 39:06 Can't wait to speak with her. And then Joe Bledsoe, class president for the Class of 2011, but also working with Gen. Shwedo right now.   Wyatt Hornsby 39:13 That's right. He's a fellow up in the Institute for Future Conflict. And again, just a remarkable graduate, a fighter pilot, really looking forward to that conversation. end of year. One other that I'm really excited about, Matt Kuta, Class of 2005 co-founder of Voyager Space and a former fighter pilot, really looking forward to that conversation as well.   Naviere Walkewicz 39:36 We have so many amazing grads to share stories with, and we could go down the list, but I think that's a good one just to, you know, whet the appetite. What do you think?   Wyatt Hornsby 39:44 I agree completely. I'm just excited about Season 3 and we'll get this going.   Naviere Walkewicz 39:49 Absolutely. Wyatt, this has been a blast. Thank you so much for joining me today.   Wyatt Hornsby 39:53 And thank you for inviting me, Naviere. This was a lot of fun.   Naviere Walkewicz 39:57 Absolutely, and we thank you for joining us as well. We can't wait to share our third season of Long Blue Leadershipbeginning this February. You can expect more compelling stories from outstanding USAFA graduates, each sharing unique perspectives and practical advice on overcoming challenges and inspiring others. With a mix of thought-provoking conversations and real-life experiences, Season 3 promises to engage, inspire and empower both seasoned and aspiring leaders alike. Visit longblueleadership.org for more episodes and to subscribe. Also, nominate a guest or send us your feedback at socialmedia@usafa.org, and finally, Long Blue Leadership is available on all of your favorite podcast apps. We can't wait to see you there.   KEYWORDS leadership lessons, season highlights, guest perspectives, teamwork, perseverance, humility, service, season three preview, Gavin Marks, Commandant of Cadets, Nicole Malachowski, Thunderbird pilot, tick born illness, Lyme Disease, Coach Calhoun, Falcons Football, Madison Marsh, Miss America, Karl Falk, Bot Doc, B.J. Schwedo, Institute for Future Conflict, leadership journey, character development, personal growth, mentorship, resilience, future conflict       The Long Blue Line Podcast Network is presented by the U.S. Air Force Academy Association and Foundation  

Miss America 2024, Madison Marsh, discusses the crossroads of pageantry and the military.In this episode, Madi takes us through her groundbreaking journey as the first active-duty officer to earn the Miss America title. She shares insights into her pilot training, attending the United States Air Force Academy, cancer research, starting a non-profit, and how a military background has influenced her career. This one is going to be cool!Key Takeaways:Madi has always been fascinated by science and found her love of aerospace while attending space camp at 13 years old.Madi earned her pilot's license at 17, the youngest possible age.While attending the United States Air Force Academy, Madi studied astrophysics and interned at NASA and Harvard.At the Academy, Madi started her pageantry journey, winning Miss Academy and Miss Colorado.In January of 2024, Madi competed in and won Miss America, becoming the first active military officer to earn the title.Madi started the Whitney Marsh Foundation after losing her Mom to pancreatic cancer. This organization helps provide education and funding for pancreatic cancer research.Madi encourages listeners to learn from their failures and to use those lessons to succeed further.Resources:Miss America Website One Lieutenant's Journey from USAFA to Miss Colorado to Harvard (United States Air Force) Madison Marsh: Beauty Queen, Hard-Core Air Force Officer (Forbes) Whitney Marsh Foundation 

Col. (Ret.) Nicole Malachowski '96 shares her insights on leadership, resilience, resurgence, perseverance, advocacy, and how she continues to serve her country, even after her military career. ----more---- A SHOW NOTE:  There are two ways to learn from Col. Malachowski's leadership journey. If you're short on time, the audio version delivers the highlights of her stories in 40 minutes. Her leadership bites, takeaways, keys to leadership and transcript are below. The video version is 1:46:00 and is well worth the investment of your time. This version includes stories and details about the Colonel's journey she hasn't shared before. Click the "Play" button in the video above and settle in for a most enlightening conversation.    SUMMARY Col. (Ret.) Nicole Malachowski '96 is a trailblazer who has broken barriers in both military aviation and advocacy. She was one of the first women to fly combat fighter aircraft, accruing more than 2,300 flight hours in six different aircraft and serving in multiple high-stakes missions, including Operations Deliberate Forge and Iraqi Freedom. But her story doesn't end there. As the first woman to fly with the U.S. Air Force Thunderbirds, a White House Fellow, and a key advisor on military and veterans' issues, Nicole's career has been defined by leadership at the highest levels. After being medically retired due to a Tick-Borne Illness, she turned her focus to advocacy, leading efforts to improve care for the wounded, ill, and injured service members through the Air Force Wounded Warrior Program. Now a passionate advocate for Tick-Borne Disease research, Nicole serves on several national committees and advisory boards, including the Department of Defense's Congressionally Directed Medical Research Program.   NICOLE'S LEADERHIP BITES "Leadership is a journey." "The runway behind you is always unusable." "Don't think you have to be perfect to be a leader." "Believe those who believe in you." "Nobody wants to lead a scripted life." "Courage, compassion, and curiosity drive me today." "It's okay to admit when you make mistakes."   SHARE THIS EPISODE LINKEDIN  |  TWITTER  |  FACEBOOK   TAKEAWAYS Leadership is personal - It's about understanding what motivates and drives each individual on your team, and tailoring your approach accordingly. Believe in those who believe in you - Mentors like Mick Jaggers who supported and encouraged Nicole were pivotal in her development as a leader. Don't write yourself or others out of the script - As General Matthews told Nicole, "Nobody wants to lead a scripted life." Embrace opportunities to dream big and take risks. Radical acceptance is key - When Nicole's military career ended unexpectedly, learning to accept the situation allowed her to move forward and find new purpose. Personal values guide your path - Nicole's core values of courage, compassion and curiosity have been instrumental in navigating life's challenges and reinventing herself.   CHAPTERS 00:00  The Journey of Leadership 02:01  Colonel Malachowski's Early Life and Aspirations 06:01  Navigating the Air Force Academy 09:46  Leadership Lessons from Soaring 14:07  Overcoming Challenges in Pilot Training 17:50  Key Leadership Experiences in the Air Force 21:59  Becoming a Thunderbird Pilot 25:47  Transitioning to Civilian Life 30:02  Advocacy and New Beginnings 34:09  Personal Values and Resilience 37:54  Final Thoughts on Leadership   NICOLE'S KEYS TO LEADERSHIP SUCCESS Leadership is a journey that requires growth and learning. It's okay to admit mistakes and seek help. Resilience is key to overcoming challenges. Personal values guide decision-making and actions. Mentorship plays a crucial role in personal and professional development. Failure is often the price of entry for success. Authentic leadership is about understanding and connecting with people. The importance of representation in leadership roles. Transitioning to civilian life can be a new beginning. Embrace opportunities and seize the moment.   ABOUT NICOLE BIO Colonel Nicole Malachowski (USAF, Ret.) is a pioneering leader whose distinguished career spans combat aviation, military advocacy, and public service. As one of the first women to fly fighter jets, Nicole's journey included over 188 combat hours and multiple leadership roles, including F-15E Flight Commander, Instructor Pilot, and Flight Lead. She also made history as the first woman to fly with the USAF Thunderbirds. Throughout her career, Nicole demonstrated exceptional leadership, serving in high-level roles such as a White House Fellow and Executive Director of the ‘Joining Forces' program, where she advised the First Lady and Dr. Jill Biden on veterans' issues. After being medically retired due to a neurological Tick-Borne Illness, Nicole transitioned to a new mission: advocating for service members, veterans, and others impacted by chronic illnesses. She's a leader in the national Tick-Borne Disease community, serving on key advisory boards and government committees, and actively mentoring wounded veterans through the Air Force Wounded Warrior Program. Nicole is also a sought-after speaker, author, and consultant, sharing her experiences of overcoming adversity and breaking barriers to inspire the next generation of leaders. Her accomplishments include two master's degrees, induction into the Women in Aviation Pioneer Hall of Fame, and founding her own speaking and consulting firm. Today, Nicole continues to serve and lead, using her story to drive change and impact communities across the country.  - Adapted from Col. Malachowski's bio at nicholemalachowski.com   READ NICOLE'S FULL STORY HERE     CONNECT WITH NICOLE LINKEDIN  |  FACEBOOK  |  INSTAGRAM  |  NICOLE'S LINKTREE     ABOUT LONG BLUE LEADERSHIP Long Blue Leadership drops every two weeks on Tuesdays and is available on Apple Podcasts, TuneIn + Alexa, Spotify and all your favorite podcast platforms. Search @AirForceGrads on your favorite social channels for Long Blue Leadership news and updates!          ABRIDGED AUDIO TRANSCRIPT DOWNLOAD THE UNABRIDGED VIDEO TRANSCRIPT HERE  SPEAKERS GUEST:  Col. (Ret.) Nicole Malachowski '96  |  HOST:  Lt. Col. (Ret.) Naviere Walkewicz '99   SPEAKERS Naviere Walkewicz, Nicole Malachowski   Nicole Malachowski  00:11 You know, leadership is a journey. We're always put into positions that we're supposed to grow into. Don't think you have to be perfect to be a leader. It's okay to admit when you make mistakes, it's okay to ask for help, and it's okay to have failures, as long as you overcome them. And I like to remind folks at all levels of leadership, you know that the runway behind you is always unusable. All you ever have is the runway that's in front of you.   Naviere Walkewicz  00:34 My guest today is Colonel Retired Nicole Malachowski, USAFA class of '96. Her career has been nothing short of extraordinary. Colonel Malachowski is perhaps best known as the first woman to fly as a pilot with the Thunderbirds, a singular distinction that set her path to reaching even greater heights. However, what you might not know is that her journey took an unexpected turn when she faced a sudden life altering loss of her place in the Air Force. The challenges that followed were extreme and personal, but through them, Colonel malikowski demonstrated a resilience and strength that not only transformed her own life, but also empowered her to help others with their own struggles. In today's conversation, we'll dive deep into the personal and professional journey that led her to transition to civilian life, the lessons she learned from the hardships she faced along the way, and how she now advocates for others, sharing the wisdom she's gained from the tough battles she's fought and won. We'll also take a look back at her time at the academy, her experiences as a pilot and the leadership principles that have guided Colonel malikowski, she has become a powerful voice for resilience, perseverance and leadership, and I'm excited to hear her insights on all of these topics. Colonel Malachowski, may I call you Nicole?   Nicole Malachowski  02:34 Yes, please.   Naviere Walkewicz  02:34 Welcome to Long Blue Leadership, and thank you for being here.   Nicole Malachowski  02:37 Thank you for having me.   Naviere Walkewicz  02:38 It's a pleasure. It truly is. I think one of the things that's so exciting for our listeners is really getting to know you. And you know, I think there's no question about who you are in the media, I mean, all the things you've accomplished, but some things that are most special is when we just sit down and kind of get to know you behind the scenes.   Nicole Malachowski  02:53 Indeed, let's do it.   Naviere Walkewicz  02:54 So let's go back to even before the Academy. Where did you grow up? Where are you from? And what were you like as a little girl?   Nicole Malachowski  03:00 Sure, yeah. So I was actually born in central California, in a town called Santa Maria, and I was born, I consider very lucky, because I was born a woman in America, so there was a lot of opportunities, you know, afforded to me. Also very lucky to be born into a solid, you know, middle class family, you know, I was a kid who always had a roof over my head and food on the table, which makes it a lot easier, right, for you to seize opportunities and to be your best. And think it's important that we acknowledge that not everybody is born into that position. And so I was very, very lucky, I will tell you, I was definitely the loner, definitely an introvert. Always have been. A lot of people would be surprised by that, but I am a solid INFJ on the Myers Briggs, but as a young kid, just very quiet, kept to myself. I was very much a dreamer, very curious about things, so I loved to dive into books. I loved school. I was the kid that would take my lunch box, you know, out into the middle of the football field by myself and just stare up at the sky and the clouds moving by, and dream about things. I remember being in the Girl Scouts during junior high we moved down towards Southern California, where I learned about Civil Air Patrol, and then from there, in high school, we actually made a big move to Las Vegas, Nevada. I continued my time in Civil Air Patrol as a cadet, but also joined the Air Force Junior ROTC at my high school.   Naviere Walkewicz  04:16 I'm just drawn to this visual of you with your lunch box in the middle of the football field looking up at this guy. So were you dreaming about flying?   Nicole Malachowski  04:24 I was, you know, I went to an air show when I was five years old, and I remember seeing an f4 phantom fly by, and it flew by so low, and it was so loud, I had to cover my ears. And I remember, like, my chest rumbling, you know, the smell of jet fuel. And I remember thinking, man, like there's a person in there, like, I want to be, you know, that person. And I had come from a family that, you know, honored and respected military service. So both of my grandfathers were career military my father had been drafted into the army during Vietnam. So I knew that, like, you know, military service was honorable and noble and good. And when I discovered that that was a military plane. I remember as a kid putting one plus one is two. I'm like, wait, you can fly jets and serve in the military. That's what I'm going to be. And wow, that was around 1979 and that's right, there are no boundaries on things. So looking up at the sky, watching planes, and of course, in high school in particular, moving to Las Vegas, Nevada, because Nellis Air Force bases there. So, I mean, I would watch the red flag launches and watch how those jets fly. And of course, I would see the six ship of Thunderbirds flying by as a kid, thinking that was pretty cool. So to be honest, I set my sights on the Air Force Academy in elementary school.   Naviere Walkewicz  05:34 Oh, my goodness.   Nicole Malachowski  05:35 Yeah. So when I was five and decided to be a fighter pilot, you had decided, I mean, I was maniacally, maniacally focused. I did not have a backup plan. I am so lucky that things worked out because I have no idea what else I would have done, you know, with my career, but I remember in sixth grade, I wrote a letter to the Air Force Academy. They responded. The admissions office responded with a personalized letter letting me know I'm kind of young to apply now, but here's the application process. They sent me a whole bunch of Air Force Academy swag, and that was it sixth grade. I was going to the Air Force Academy, goodness, when you were actually old enough to apply. Now to the academy.   Naviere Walkewicz  06:13 Let's talk about that process. What was it like for you? Well, I mean, I think it was more exciting than anything else. I told you. I had stayed maniacally focused. I was very particular and organized about prioritizing how my application would look. So of course, I strove to have the good grades, and obviously stayed involved with the activities like Civil Air Patrol or participating in sports like running cross country and track, as well as doing, you know, community service type activities. So I was indeed focused on making sure that application looked good. I remember the thing I was probably the most nervous about were those interviews with your, you know, senators and your representatives, and wondering if I was going to be able to interview well. So I was, you know, putting my best foot forward. And I remember my senior year, it was approximately October, maybe coming up on November about this time, right? And I went to the mailbox to get the mail, and I had the application had already been in, right? Because everything was done before the fall, and I saw this giant envelope from the Air Force Academy. And I thought, No way, because it's only like October or November. And I started shaking, and I opened it right there at the mailbox. I had to go up the street. I opened it, and I feel bad because I think I littered like the envelope all over the street, but I remember opening it up, and the first line was, congratulations. You know, you've been accepted to the class of 1996 and I instantaneously just started crying and running as fast as I could back to my house.   Naviere Walkewicz  07:38 Had you been to the Academy prior to the acceptance?   Nicole Malachowski  07:41 No, never stood a foot on at all. And I remember when my parents came to drop me off for for Jacks Valley and everything basic training, when we came up over that hill, over Monument Hill, and you can see the chapel and the kind of imposing, you know, white buildings on a hill, I was like, Oh, wow, that's extraordinary. And I was really just excited. People ask, were you nervous that day? I was not, because I was just so happy that this, to me, was like the first step of the rest of my life. It was that first real step towards this goal of serving my country, you know, like people my family had, and getting to fly jets while I do it, how cool is that? I don't remember any highs or lows. I do remember I got my enjoyment becoming a cadet, you know, soaring instructor pilot.   Naviere Walkewicz  08:28 So let's talk about that. That is a, kind of a key leadership role as well.   Nicole Malachowski  08:32 Yes, that was my leadership role. So my senior year, I was the cadet soaring squadron commander. Oh, let's talk about Yes, yes. So obviously, between freshman, sophomore year, I signed up as soon as I could, you know, to take soaring, and when I discovered that you could actually apply to be a soaring instructor, and I remember that was a really like growth experience, because it's one thing to be able to fly a glider, it's another thing to be able to try to teach somebody how to do that. And I really, I I give a lot of credit to this, you know, sorry, instructor upgrade program teaching me the skills of, how do you communicate something technical? How do you communicate something hard, this idea that you need to be able to communicate it not just in one way, but two or three different ways, because each of your students is going to come at it with a different skill set or a different perspective or a different personality that responds to different type of teaching. So learning how to tailor your instruction and your care and your leadership to each individual was something I learned here, you know, as a sophomore, this idea that I would carry that on into my career as a leader and, you know, ultimately into being, you know, a fighter squadron commander. This tailored leadership actually started here, but soaring is what was my respite. Soaring is where I refilled that tank. It's one thing to be successful yourself. It's a whole different level to teach somebody else to be successful.   Naviere Walkewicz  09:55 So you knew you enjoyed Well, obviously you enjoyed the flying? And soaring, the leadership aspect, I think, was something that was new to you then. Or had you done that in Civil Air Patrol? Did you also have leadership there?   Nicole Malachowski  10:06 Yeah, I had leadership experience in Civil Air Patrol, but I think this was a different level. You know, my senior year becoming the cadet soaring squadron commander, it was really cool, because not only were you trying to take inputs from your peers and your colleagues on things we could improve or do differently, you know, valuing the other cadets opinions. But how do I translate that to leadership? How do I go now and talk to the real officers, the active duty officers in charge, and go, these are maybe resources we need, or things culturally, you know, that we need to change, and that was hard for me, you know, because I had never done that before. How do you advocate for your peers in a way that's understood, you know, by the active duty leadership. So that was really something that, again, would become important in my military career, because when you're put in a leadership role, you know, it's about, I think, advocating for the people who you are, you know, accountable for and responsible to, yes, and so how can you do that and do it in a way that it's received? Well, yes, you know, by the leadership above you,   Naviere Walkewicz  11:07 After you graduated from the Academy, you went on to pilot training.   Nicole Malachowski  11:11 I was slated to go early right after graduation, and I was a casual status Lieutenant flying gliders. Of course, went out for a jog and broke my ankle. So this would be my first kind of little, little detour. And I ended up, they offered me to go, to go to shepherd a lot later, or as soon as my ankle was healed, I could go to Columbus Air Force Base Mississippi right away. And I said, I gotta go, like, I cannot sit around and wait. I want to go to Columbus Air Force Base Mississippi. And everyone's like, what you're going to turn down, like, the chance of going to fighters to like, have to fight for it at Columbus. I like, I can't be stagnant. I need to go. So showed up at Columbus Air Force Base Mississippi, and again, really grateful for all of the flying experience that I had. I think that just those foundational procedures, you know, foundational knowledge, was vital to being a little more comfortable than other people that didn't have that experience. It was easy to be slightly ahead of the curve early on, but as I like to tell people, I fell flat on my face across the starting line my second check ride in pilot training, I failed. Now, pilot training at that time was about a year long. There were about 10 check rides, and at that time, failing one check ride, statistically, traditionally, would take you out of the running for graduating high enough to be a fighter pilot. This was devastating to me, and I remember even having fleeting moments that night of like, maybe I should just quit. Now this is, of course, the youth in me, right? I'm a 21 year old kid, and I'm just getting a little bit emotional about it, but if I can't be a fighter pilot and I just knock myself out of the running, I should quit. And I didn't call my parents because I didn't want to tell them I was too, like, embarrassed maybe, to say, like, hey, my dream that you all have supported is about to come to an end, because I messed up, and I made a really junior varsity mistake. And so I called my mentor, Sue Ross, and then she just let me talk, and she's like, are you done? And I'm done. And she goes, Well, are you going to do that again tomorrow? And I said, Sue, how am I supposed to get back in the jet tomorrow? How do I face my peers? I've been telling them I'm going to fly strike Eagles this whole time. Like this is so embarrassing. What if I fail again? What if I fail again tomorrow? And I remember, she talked me off the ledge, man, you know, and I came away. I came away with that conversation, realizing that indeed, I think I rarely believe failure is the price of entry for achieving something great, because if you have the right mindset, you come away with failures, I think a lot more committed, a lot more dedicated, a lot more focused, and I think a lot more humble, and all of those characteristics and traits are good things. You know, it worked out for me, and I did finish fourth in my class, and I had an extraordinary class. It was a time of great cultural change in the Air Force, because we were the first group of women to come through pilot training with the option of flying fighter aircraft.   Naviere Walkewicz  14:04 So talk about your time while you're in uniform. You had some key leadership positions. You were squadron commander. Can you share some of your stories with that and maybe even some high points and some lessons learned, where you as a leader felt that maybe, maybe it was a low point or a failure, but you grew from it?   Nicole Malachowski 14:20 Sure, sure. Yes. I mean, I had so many, you know, different fun assignments. You know, obviously when you're in your first fighter squadron, I got out at RAF Lake and Heath out there in England. I mean, what a rage right to be a lieutenant flying strike Eagles at 500 feet, 500 miles an hour, up Loch Ness, to live in the dream, you know, becoming in my second squadron, which was at Seymour Johnson Air Force Base, becoming a, you know, flight lead and upgrading to instructor pilot. Very nervous to go into the instructor pilot upgrade. I went in very young. In fact, when I got to that squadron, the weapons officer said, hey, I want to put you in the instructor upgrade. And I was like, no. Away like I am not ready for that. I am not good enough for that. And I was new to the squadron. There were people technically older and more experienced than me. They were in the queue, and he wanted me to jump the queue, a guy by the name of Michael Jaggers, call sign, Mick, I'm still friends with him to this day, and I remember I avoided him. I avoided him like the plague because I did not want to upgrade to instructor. And I remember saying, Mick, I just am not sure I can do this. And he looked at me, and he said, it's not your job to get through it. It's not your job to get through it alone. It's my job. It's my job to ensure you have what it takes and what you need. It's my job to teach you to be a good instructor. So your success is going to be my success. I will not let you fail. What a glorious man, what a wonderful instructor. And the lesson learned here to people is this, believe those who believe in you. Believe those who believe in you.   Naviere Walkewicz  15:52 It's true, though it really is. And those people, I think sometimes your trajectory can change or just like, accelerate, because someone gave you a little bit of courage that you just needed that little piece.   Nicole Malachowski 16:03 And to learn as I gained experience and credibility how to replicate that and how to be that person for other people, right? Because it's about turning around. It really is about lifting up other people. Your success isn't your own. It's how can you help other people achieve the best of themselves? And that's what you know Mikey and Mick did for me. And of course, the rest, you know, being history, because then I had the credentials I needed to apply to be a Thunderbird. And then from the Thunderbirds, I could become a commander, yada yada, you know, but being an instructor pilot, again, in the F 15 e how extraordinary to teach a brand new pilot or WSO, not only to fly the aircraft, to how to employ it as a weapon system and then to turn around and go to war with them. There's no bigger honor. There's nothing, I think, more humbling than that.   Naviere Walkewicz  16:49 Can you share something that maybe you learned from the perspective of how to lead better?   Nicole Malachowski 16:55 So let's be honest, when you go into a fighter squadron, things are a little bit one note, right? I mean, we all are cut from a similar cloth. We all kind of have similar personality traits. You know, you don't want your fighter pilots any other way, putting the effort into understanding what drives and motivates individuals. So learning at that age how to put your arms around everybody that you're responsible for, not just the ones that maybe are easiest to lead, or maybe the ones you're the most comfortable, you know, interacting with as a leader is, how do I figure it out? You know, there were some guys that, if I were to call them on up to the front of the room, in front of the whole squadron, to compliment them on something they did, maybe a check right they had. Or this goes for my fighter squadron command as well. You know, they would love it, right? Because it it was how they were extrinsically motivated, and that's okay. There's nothing wrong with that. If that's what they need, and that's what you need to do to get the best of their strengths and best of their commitment go for it. And then were others that low? If I were to bring them in front of their peers to compliment them, they would shut down and never talk to me for the rest of the you know, their assignment. And so that's where I would take the time to write a handwritten note, maybe put it on the seat of their Humvee, or put it in their helmet, you know, in the fighter squadron. And then when they'd see me walking down the hallway, we give the knowing nod that they were acknowledged for their awesome, whatever it was, and we would move on.   Naviere Walkewicz  18:13 Yes. And so what I'm hearing, in a really, kind of summarizing way, is leadership is personal.   Nicole Malachowski 18:19 Very. it's all about people and it's about authenticity and connections.   Naviere Walkewicz  18:25 So speaking about personal and authenticity, I'd be remiss if we didn't talk about your journey to the Thunderbirds.   Nicole Malachowski  18:31 I knew this was gonna come.   Naviere Walkewicz  18:32 It's here, and so you know it is. It's a different time. There was no woman Thunderbird pilot before you.   Nicole Malachowski 18:40 I grew up in Las Vegas, Nevada, so the Thunderbirds were part of the backdrop. I knew that the Thunderbirds, you know, as a kid, were special and were considered, you know, elite. And kind of going back to my personality, I love being told that, you know, you can't do things. And the truth is, people laugh at this, but the truth is, when I applied to be a Thunderbird, I did it because the way my career was going, I wasn't ready to, I wasn't on timeline to go to ide yet or to go to ACSC, but I had, like, a weird year kind of gap, and I didn't they didn't really know what to do with me. I didn't know what to do with them, and my husband was going to be PCs in the Nellis. This is, like, a true story. Wow. I know people want me to say, well, I had this big, long dream when I was Thunderbird. Also thought about it was always in the background. Is something that, you know, wasn't, was an option. And I, you know, because of a lot of people who put a lot of effort into me, I was indeed qualified, you know, to get in there and to give it a try. But it wasn't something that was like an ultimate goal. I did not know they had not had a woman Thunderbird pilot when I applied, did not even occur to me. Remember, I had never known an Air Force without women fighter pilots in it. That's right, that's and we had all achieved the age where we had acquired the hours needed, and it just lined up with the timing. And I'm like, Well, that would be kind of fun and different to do. And. So I always tell people, you know, when you get those butterflies in your stomach that says, This could be something cool, something different, that is your cue to go do it. Don't worry about what anybody else is saying. And so, you know, I was able to put that application in. And in fact, I was I put that application in, and when I went and told everyone I was going to apply, generally speaking, people were really tickled and happy and happy and supportive. But as the days went by, people started to think about it. I heard, you know, it's too hard to be a Thunderbird, you probably won't get picked. I mean, statistically, no one gets picked to do that. They've never had a woman before. Are you sure you want to do that and this and that? And I remember the day I turned my application in. This was back when you still had hard copies, and you still had to mail them, okay, 2005 took it over to the group commander's Chief of Staff, slid it across the desk. I was super nervous, because the voice in my head was like, Nicole, other people become Thunderbird pilots, not you. That was the other people become Thunderbird pilots, not you. What are you doing? Why are you risking this? But I kept thinking, what's the worst that's going to happen? I don't get picked, like most people don't get picked, and I go back to flying strike Eagles with my community, which I love, like life is good, right? Either way, it's a win, win. So as I slid that application across the desk, said, I'm applying to be a Thunderbird. Here's my application. I remember the staff looked up to me and said, you know Nicole, It's hard to be a Thunderbird. You know Nicole, you probably won't get picked. And the exact words were, you know Nicole, they've never had a woman before, and the colonel can only stratify one person in that moment. Let's, I think there's leadership lessons here, because this person was not trying to be mean, right? What was coming out was, I think the unconscious bias all of us have to check ourselves on every day at all ages. I think what was coming out were the cultural paradigms of the Air Force at that time. And I think what was coming out, you know, were other people's expectations about what I should or shouldn't be doing. And in that moment, the truth is, I grabbed my application and I took it back, I went across to the officers club and grabbed a beer like any good fighter pilot would, and I remember thinking, thank God I didn't put myself out there. Thank God Nicole, you know, now I'm a 30 year old captain, so I'm still a young person, you know. Thank God you didn't risk failure. Who are you to think you could be a Thunderbird, silly girl, right? And in that moment, the weirdest thing happened. And I tell this story on stage, sometimes the door opened to the officers club, and in walk the Wing Commander, Brigadier General Mark Matthews, for whatever reason, comes over and starts talking to me. Now, this is weird, right? I'm a captain. He's a brigadier general. I don't know why he was talking to me, you know, like walking amongst the people that day, or, you know, just making small talk. And so I'm trying to hold my own talking to him a little bit nervous. It's a little you're probably still feeling a little bit down from totally down. And in that moment, over walks my squadron commander, a wonderful man by the name of Dan Debree. His call sign was, trash. Get it? Trash, debris. Trash. Walks over, super excited, very supportive of my application. And he's like, Hey, General, did you know Nicole's applying to be a Thunderbird now? Man, I mean, you could have slowed down time. I was like, ixnay on the underbird Fae like, this is terrible. Neither of these guys knew that I had removed my application. And Dan's standing there all proud. He's my squadron commander supporting me. A great man again. And Mark Matthews looks down at me, general Matthews, and he goes, that's great. How's your application going? And I'm like, I looked at him, and here's what happened. I said, you know, sir, it's hard to be thunder, but I probably won't get picked. They haven't had a woman, so I don't want to waste anybody's time.   Naviere Walkewicz  23:11 Oh, you said, I said it.   Nicole Malachowski  23:13 I said all of it. And this is kind of an embarrassing story to tell, but I'm just this is the truth, right? This is the vulnerable truth of how this happened. And and he looked down at me, and I will never forget this. And I hope folks listening who have big dreams and gnarly goals remember this. He looked down at me and he said, Nicole, actually. He said, Fifi. My call sign, Fifi. Nobody wants to lead a scripted life. And he walked away and left me in extraordinarily uncomfortable silence. And those words nobody wants to lead a scripted life have become my life's mantra. Every time I get the knot in my stomach that says that dreams too big or that idea is too innovative, don't rock the boat, I remember what he said, because those words, like they lifted the weight of the world off my shoulders, told me it was okay to dream big. It was okay to buck the status quo. It was okay to be different. He was telling me, it's okay to risk failure in pursuit of personal professional growth, and it's not so much. I think he's telling you and me to write ourselves into the script. What he was saying was, don't ever write yourself out of the script. And as leaders and teammates, don't you ever write anybody else or their wild ideas out of the script, either. And so nobody wants to lead a scripted life. And I, I hope what you're hearing in these stories, and maybe what I'm realizing just chatting with you, is these little turning points, these pivot moments where these really important people, the mark Matthews, you know, the Mikey whiteheads, the Mick Jaggers, the Sue Rosses, the Kim Jamesons, they all come at that right moment. You got to be open to that you know, and and how important your actions and your words are to making or breaking somebody else's journals.   Naviere Walkewicz  24:48 Yes, yeah, so you took that application back.   Nicole Malachowski 24:52 Sure did. Sure did. I did not get the number one stratification from the colonel, but I did from the general. And. So that worked out for me. When I really started thinking about, I think I was putting myself back in the kid in high school with her brown bag lunch out on the football field watching the Thunderbirds fly over that can tend to see that those six jets smoked behind in red, white and blue, screaming over your high school. You know, you wanted to be a fighter pilot. Since you're a kid, I'm staring up at them, thinking, there's people up there. You know, I want to be one of those people. This idea that there would be a little kid watching me as a Thunderbird pilot, and maybe someday go, maybe I could fulfill whatever my dream is. Maybe I could join the Air Force too, a little girl going, maybe I could be a fighter pilot someday. And I think the gravity and the weight of the mission of the Thunderbirds started to really impact me, because it had indeed impacted me as a kid, and the idea that I could be a part of that. And I think the other thing was, and maybe this sounds cheesy or trite, but it's not, you know, sitting at Al UD, drinking my one beer at three in the morning after I land from my night combat mission, sitting with all these great Americans from all over the country, from every different background, and thinking, I could go tell their story, and that's what Thunderbirds get to do. You get to represent the world's greatest Air Force and tell the stories of these airmen who are out there getting the job done, those tech piece those crew chiefs, you know, the folks that are working at the tower, the folks in the food hall, our medical professionals, the cyber the whole thing, right? And all of a sudden it got really exciting to me, like I could go out there with this team, with this mission, and we could represent our friends with the honor and the dignity and the respect that they deserve. And I think those two things kind of collided together, and I started getting really excited about excited about this Thunderbird thing. Ended up back at Lake and Heath painfully excruciating waiting for the vinyls. And when we got back from Iraq, they give you the kind of three weeks of downtime. My husband was a gracious man and took me on a Cruise of the Baltic Sea. We're sitting in our cabin in Oslo Norway, and the phone in the cabin rings. The phone in your cabin, phone in my cabin rings. It's about 10 o'clock at night, but full sun outside, because it's summertime in Norway. And immediately we looked at each other, and both of our heart we've talked about this, both our hearts sank, because why does a phone call come to military people on vacation? It's not never it's never good. Yeah, and I was a flight commander at the time. So was he we immediately thought something disastrous had happened, an aircraft accident, a death, you know, a car accident. And we let it ring another time, and he's like, You need to pick it up. And I picked it up. And I said, Hello. And they go, is this Captain malikowski? I said, Yes. And they go standby for the commander of Air Combat Command. Oh my gosh. And I looked at my husband, and I was like, What is going on? Well, I knew this was the consolation call. There was, I think, I think there was five or six of us who had made it to finals. Three people were getting good position. The other were not. And it is tradition that the commander of Air Combat Command calls all six, coach is very gracious and professionally courteous. And so I thought this was my consolation call. So I'm waiting, and it feels like an eternity, and all of a sudden I hear Stevie there, and I said, Yes. He goes, Ron keys which was General. Ron Keyes, Commander, Air Combat Command. I'm a young captain. I'm like, you've got to be kidding me. And I go, sir, how are you? He goes. We have a pretty amazing Air Force that we can find you in the middle of the Oslo Norway fjord, don't we? I said, Yes, sir, we do. He goes. Well, I know you're on vacation, so I want to keep it simple. I want to offer you a job. And I said, Yes, sir. He goes. How would you like to be Thunderbird number three? And I said, I stayed as professional as I could in my voice, but I was looking at my husband gesticulating, jumping up and down like you're not gonna believe I said, Sir, I would absolutely love that. He goes, Okay, great. You're the next Thunderbird number three. Look forward to watching you fly and get back to your vacation. And he hung up the phone. You know, the Thunderbirds are, at that time, 125 people from 25 different career fields who came together to make that mission happen. Wow, never been in a squadron with that many high performing, highly motivated people in my life. I am still dear friends with my crew chief, still friends with people on the team. It is such a crucible experience. It's a one off, you know. Well, fast forward. Finish up the Thunderbirds. I get a phone call. He goes, it's Viking blurling. I'm like, How the heck did this guy that I met once get my phone he goes, Hey, when I was an Air Force officer, a young fighter pilot, I did acse as a White House fellow, and I think you should be a White House fellow. I said, Well, what's the White House Fellowship? So he explains it to me, and I'm like, there is no way I will get picked as one of 12 to 15 people across the United States, across all career fields, including civilians, to be a White House fellow. Colin Powell was a White House fellow. I am not a White House fellow. This is ridiculous. So I entertained his conversation. He says, I want you to think about I'm gonna call you back tomorrow, same time. Boom. Phone rings. Viking borling, you're applying to be a White House fellow, no, sir. I'm not. Third day ping. Phone calls. You're applying to be a White House fellow. Anyways, I applied to be a White House fellow. Went through that whole process, semi finals, regional panel interviews, and then the finals, and was selected to be a White House fellow. I got assigned outside of the White House to the US, General Services, Administration, yes, like, it was exciting. And I was like, this is where the nuts and bolts happen? Well, the GSA also runs what's called the office of the president elect. Between election and inauguration, the incoming president and their team needs to have a place to get ready, like our current incoming administration is doing. It's a physical office building where they make decisions about cabinet secretaries, or they get their intelligence briefings and all of that. Guess who got put on the presidential transition support team to be up close and personal for the peaceful transition of power between George Bush and Barack Obama? Wow. The extraordinary part about the White House Fellowship was most of the fellows were civilian, and I had been nothing but military since I was 17 years old and showed up at the Air Force Academy. So to be able to look at leadership and teamwork and professionalism from a completely different lens, to see how people from the education field or from healthcare would solve a problem was fascinating. You know, we in the military can look to solve problems a very specific way, and a lot of us are a little bit very specific in how we do it. And so to learn how to look at problems and solve things in different ways was extraordinary.   Naviere Walkewicz  31:23 So your career trajectory is just really incredible. Because you've kind of talked about how you've been put in these places based off of circumstance, but then when you get there, it's all about, how do you make the most of it, seize the opportunity and see what's available.   Nicole Malachowski  31:38 A lot of times, you know, as human beings, we go, Well, I don't have this, or I can't do this right now, or not resource this way, man, find a way. Yeah, ask yourself the right question. What is it I can do right now with what I have?   Naviere Walkewicz  31:49 Well, that makes me feel like that's a really good lead into kind of what circumstantially happened to you, unexpectedly. Yes, so you're medically retired from the Air Force. Do you want to talk about how that happened?   Nicole Malachowski  32:00 And sure, sure, you know, the the greatest honor of my career was serving as the commander of the 3/33 fighter squadron. I enjoyed that, and I remember also during that time being physically fit, mentally fit, spiritually fit. And I remember feeling ill in the summer of 2012 like I had the flu, but within three months, I started having severe neurological problems, so things like word finding, slurring my words, inability to read write, inability to type, dropping things with my right hand, dragging my right leg, getting lost, driving home, and I remember going into a grocery store and having a complete panic attack because I didn't know what a grocery store was or why I was in there so very Alzheimer's dementia like symptoms. So in fact, what was happening was my brain was becoming inflamed with an infection. So over the next four years, my symptoms would wax and wane. They would come and go, they would change in severity. Obviously, I could no longer fly. I was grounded, but they said, Hey, you can stay in the Air Force. You just can't fly. And I said, that's great, because honestly, I just want to lead airmen. Lead airmen and be a part of a team. So, you know, there's a lot of details, you know, to this story, but my symptom list was like 63 symptoms long, covering every system in my body. And so they cast the net wide, and that's where tick borne illness came into it. And at that time, I was in a wheelchair. I couldn't talk. My husband was wheeling me around, and I remember when the doctor said, we come on in. We have the diagnosis. We know what's wrong with her. The doctor says she'll never fly again. And my husband said, Well, how long until she's better? And she goes, Well, treatment is going to take at least two years. And it was in that moment, it wasn't that I wasn't going to fly again, that hurt. But when they said two years, I knew that the military was going to medically retire me, I knew it was over, and I couldn't speak or say anything, and I was just devastated. I remember my goal was to be the commandant of the Air Force Academy. That was my dream. And all that just came crashing, you know, crashing down. And in that moment, so for nine months I couldn't walk, talk, read or write. I spent another year and a half in rehab, and during that time, obviously went through my medical evaluation board, but I was medically retired, I fought to stay in and then I realized my body wasn't gonna let me and once I accepted that it was over, you know, I was able to move forward so radical acceptance was a hard thing to come by. But the day of my retirement, December 29 2017 came, I was home alone because I was bedridden and house bound for two years. Um, was very hurtful. Remains hurtful. How my Air Force career ended. I love the Air Force based on all the stories that I told, but this moment is very painful for me. It still is. And, you know, I thought, well, what are you going to do about it? You know, you can't. Change that you were bit by tick, can't change that you have a brain injury. What are you going to do? Girl, you know, the fighter pilot in you is not going to quit. And that's when I decided, well, I'm going to, you know, I got to do something. And the phone rang, and the phone rang, and it was during this time, a gal by the name of Buff Bucha, retired colonel, had been in a helicopter accident broke her neck in Afghanistan. She said, Hey, how you doing? I said, I'm not good. She goes talk to me, and I remember for two hours just vomiting everything out to this person I didn't really know very well. Well, she was calling from the Air Force Wounded Warrior program, wow, and the Wounded Warrior program swooped in to save me, and I ended up becoming a trained ambassador and a trained mentor, which I still am to this day. I'm able to help other airmen who are being discharged, but I just want to give a shout out to the Air Force wind Warrior Program, psychologically and mental health wise, I don't know that I would have recovered, and that I would have recovered to the place that I am today without them. And so I want for the active duty, listening for people in the reserve and the guard. It is for you, yeah, it is for everyone, and it is literally a life saving program.   Naviere Walkewicz  32:45 Maybe talk about what you've been doing then since.   Nicole Malachowski  36:16 Yeah, I do leadership consulting and professional speaking, but predominantly, that helps pay the bills, and I enjoy it. Predominantly, I do patient advocacy work at the national level, so I'm on several government boards. I'm on several nonprofit panels. We've tripled them, and IH funding through the state and like TicK Act and things like that. I'm currently on a National Academies of Science Committee. Can't talk about that because our report will come out in the spring. I hope everyone will read it. But Lyme disease, I went from being a fighter pilot to being an expert on ticks and Lyme disease. Who knew the path to success is always going to be non linear.   Naviere Walkewicz  36:49 Yes, you also mentioned you have children. You have twins. Do so how is it talk about, like family life in this new kind of in the way that you're working now, right? You're not in uniform anymore. You're still pushing amazing things forward. You're consulting what's it like being a mom?   Naviere Walkewicz  37:06 Man, it's harder, it is harder to raise 14 year old twins than it is to get shot at  in combat, I will tell you that. So you know, the person that's been missing in this whole time we've been talking is the most important person in my life, which is my husband, Paul. So we will be married. We just, yeah, just had our anniversary. 23 years. I met him in my first fighter squadron in the late 90s. He's an F-15E WSO. So we met flying together. And my biggest cheerleader, my biggest supporter, the greatest human being on Earth, is my husband, Paul.   Naviere Walkewicz  37:38 I want to talk about this resurgence, because I feel like that is really important for some of our listeners. When they're, you know, they're thinking about you said you got to know who you are and what's important to you. And how did you get to that clarity?   Nicole Malachowski 37:52 You really need to be able to answer the question, what is it I value and why? And I'm talking about your personal values, the ones that you're going to wake up with every day and go, these are my values. And so I'll tell you what mine are. Mine are courage and compassion and curiosity, and I developed those as I went through this deep thinking and deep reinvention, when I lost my career and compassion, courage and curiosity are what drive me today.   Naviere Walkewicz  38:18 We'll ask for Nicole's thoughts on reinvention, resilience and leadership. But before we do that, I'd like to take a moment and thank all of you for listening to long blue leadership. The podcast publishes on Tuesdays in both video and audio, and is available on all your favorite podcast platforms. Watch or listen to all episodes of Long blue leadership and subscribe at longblue leadership.org so we have had an incredible journey together, and really where we'd like to go. One final thought on leadership, if you might, leave your listeners with something about leadership, and I can say just from being in this short amount of time with you, your your 3 Cs are coming out in spades, your compassion, your curiosity and your courage. So thank you.   Nicole Malachowski  39:01 Thank you. You know leadership is a journey. We're always put into positions that we're supposed to grow into. Don't think you have to be perfect to be a leader. It's okay to admit when you make mistakes, it's okay to ask for help, and it's okay to have failures, as long as you overcome them. And I like to remind folks at all levels of leadership, you know that the runway behind you is always unusable. All you ever have is the runway that's in front of you.   Naviere Walkewicz  39:25 Well said, well said, Thank you so much for being on long blue leadership.   Nicole Malachowski  39:29 Thank you for having me. And here's a shout out to the current cadets that are working hard up on the hill, yeah, wishing them best and hoping they take it one day at a time.   Naviere Walkewicz  39:36 Absolutely. And for our listeners, I mean, I think that it's, it's it's certainly one thing to say, you know, you get to meet these incredible leaders, but my ask of you is to share this with your networks, because it's great if you felt something and you've had an impact in your life, but imagine the magnitude you can have by sharing some of the stories of our leaders like Nicole today with your networks and the change we can make together. So until next time, thanks for being on. Long blue leadership, thank you for joining us for this edition of long blue leadership. The podcast drops every two weeks on Tuesdays and is available on all your favorite podcast apps. Send your comments and guest ideas to us at social media@usafa.org, and listen to past episodes at longblueleadership.org.   KEYWORDS leadership, resilience, resurgence, Air Force Academy, mentorship, aviation, women in military, pilot training, overcoming adversity, personal growth, fighter pilot, mentorship, leadership, Thunderbirds, women in military, self-doubt, White House Fellowship, WASP, Air Force, personal growth, diversity, WASP, Air Force, medical retirement, resilience, leadership, Lyme Disease, tick-borne illness, self-discovery, personal values, reinvention, advocacy         The Long Blue Line Podcast Network is presented by the U.S. Air Force Academy Association and Foundation    

Brian Campbell, Assistant Vice President for Athletics Development at the University of Miami, shares his journey from growing up in Columbus, Ohio, to becoming a leader in athletics fundraising, his experiences as a cadet at the Air Force Academy, the challenges he faced, and the resilience he developed.  SUMMARY In this conversation, Brian Campbell, Assistant Vice President for Athletics Development at the University of Miami, shares his journey from growing up in Columbus, Ohio, to becoming a leader in athletics fundraising. He discusses his experiences as a cadet at the Air Force Academy, the challenges he faced, and the resilience he developed. Brian emphasizes the importance of leadership, surrounding oneself with great people, and the impact of private investment in athletics. He also reflects on his transition from military to civilian life and his current role in shaping the future of athletics at UM.   OUR TOP 5 FAVORITE QUOTES   "I think it's important to be really authentic with people, and that has worked. It's worked well for me, especially when those decisions are consistent with being authentic to what we're trying to accomplish."   "I think a lot about the elements that we put into it, because it's hard on a daily basis to know if you're doing a good job being a leader, but if you take those pieces of the fabric that we learned at the Academy, and you keep doing it the right way and thinking about these things and surrounding yourself by people with with surrounding yourself with people of those kinds of values, and people that you can take little pieces of what they do and try to try to bring them with You. I think it's the right road."   "I don't think I've arrived as a leader and I but I started to think that I probably that I would be willing to bet that General Clark might say the same thing, and Coach Calhoun might say the same thing. So I think it's always a work in process."   "If you take those pieces of the fabric that we learned at the Academy, and you keep doing it the right way and thinking about these things and surrounding yourself by people with with surrounding yourself with people of those kinds of values, and people that you can take little pieces of what they do and try to try to bring them with You. I think it's the right road."   "I think it's always a work in process, but I think it's important to be really authentic with people, and that has worked. It's worked well for me, especially when those decisions are consistent with being authentic to what we're trying to accomplish."  - Brian Campbell '08, the Long Blue Leadership Podcast   SHARE THIS EPISODE FACEBOOK  |  LINKEDIN   CHAPTERS 00:00: Introduction to Brian Campbell 02:52: Growing Up in Columbus and Early Athletic Influences 06:14: The Journey to the Air Force Academy 08:59: Life as a Cadet: Challenges and Resilience 11:53: Leadership Lessons from the Academy 15:10: Transitioning from Military to Civilian Life 18:06: Fundraising and Philanthropy in Athletics 21:00: The Kutra Legacy Center: A Personal Connection 23:53: Current Role at the University of Miami 27:06: Leadership Philosophy and Key Takeaways   TAKEAWAYS Brian's journey highlights the importance of resilience in overcoming challenges. Authenticity in leadership fosters trust and connection with others. Surrounding yourself with talented individuals can enhance personal growth. Private investment plays a crucial role in the success of athletic programs. Experiences at the Air Force Academy shape leadership philosophies. Fundraising in athletics is about building relationships and trust. Transitioning from military to civilian life requires adaptability and networking. The Kutra Legacy Center represents a significant investment in future cadets. Leadership is a continuous journey of learning and growth. Engaging with alumni can create impactful opportunities for current students.   ABOUT BRIAN CAMPBELL '08BIO Brian Campbell '08 joined the University of Miami in May of 2023 as Assistant Vice President for Athletics Development. In this role, Brian has oversight of fundraising operations, programs, and the development team for Miami Athletics. Brian came to UM from his alma mater, the United States Air Force Academy, where he had spent the previous five years, beginning in 2018 as the Assistant Athletic Director for Development and finishing as the Executive Director of Development for Strategic Programs and Athletic Giving. At Air Force, Brian was responsible for the fundraising strategy and execution for athletic capital projects, endowments, and major giving, in addition to other revenue generating initiatives.  He also served as the liaison to the Air Force Academy Foundation Board of Director's Athletic Committee.  The academy experienced unprecedented fundraising success during Brian's time at USAFA – most notably completing a $270 million campaign nearly 18-months ahead of schedule, headlined by multiple record-breaking years of fundraising. As part of the campaign, Brian led a $37.5 million fundraising effort to support the $90+ million modernization of the east side of Falcon Stadium.  Additionally, he managed the philanthropic component of a $500 million public-private partnership to develop a new hotel and visitors center outside USAFA's north gate.  Other accomplishments during this stretch included a lead gift to launch the renovation of Air Force's baseball venue, Falcon Field, and building the Wayne Baughman Wrestling Endowment, which seeks to provide operational funding for Air Force Wrestling in perpetuity. Brian brings 15 years of organizational leadership experience to UM from multiple sectors.  He rose to the rank of captain in the US Air Force, then climbed to the partner level at Anheuser-Busch InBev   where he led the sales and marketing efforts for the Northwest region, including several of the largest sports and entertainment partnerships in the portfolio. In each of the communities he's lived in, Brian has supported local initiatives – serving on the boards of the National Football Foundation of Colorado, the Missouri Veterans Initiative, and the Boys and Girls Club of Alton, Illinois.  He was a football student-athlete at the Air Force Academy and earned his MBA from the Olin Business School at Washington University in St. Louis. - Copy Credit:  University of Miami   CONNECT WITH BRIAN LINKEDIN     ABOUT LONG BLUE LEADERSHIP Long Blue Leadership drops every two weeks on Tuesdays and is available on Apple Podcasts, TuneIn + Alexa, Spotify and all your favorite podcast platforms. Search @AirForceGrads on your favorite social channels for Long Blue Leadership news and updates!          FULL TRANSCRIPT SPEAKERS Guest, Brian Campbell '08  |  Lt. Col. (Ret.) Naviere Walkewicz '99   Naviere Walkewicz  00:00 My guest today is the Assistant Vice President for Athletics Development, Brian Campbell, USAFA, class of 2008. Brian joined the University of Miami in 2023 as Assistant Vice President for Athletics Development, where he oversees all fundraising for UM Athletics. In 2018 he served as Assistant Athletic Director for Development for Air Force Athletics, ultimately becoming Executive Director of Development for Strategic Programs and Athletic Giving. Brian led several highly successful, multi-million dollar fundraising campaigns, including playing a significant role in securing funding for the Falcon Stadium's newly open Kucera Legacy Center. While at the Academy, Brian was a football cadet-athlete and later earned his MBA from the Olin Business School at Washington University in St. Louis. He also spent five years in sports marketing with Anheuser Busch. We'll talk with Brian about his life as a young athlete, path to the Air Force Academy, his days as a cadet, leadership opportunities, and how he now uses what he learned to lead and positively impact others. Finally, we'll ask Brian to share advice for developing leaders and those in leadership aspiring to reach similar heights in their careers. Brian, welcome to long blue leadership, and thank you for joining us today.   Brian Campbell  01:18 Thanks, Naviere. I am honored to be on the podcast, and I'm really happy to be back in Doolittle Hall, albeit remotely, and I want to welcome you to the “U.”   Naviere Walkewicz  01:29 Thank you so much. I will take that warm weather. Yeah, well, we're really excited for this. Brian, I think a lot of our listeners love to hear the different paths that our leaders take from getting to the Academy in life after but we like to start by rewinding the clock a little bit. And we'd like to get to know you, Brian, as a young boy. Tell us about what life was like growing up, where you grew up, etc.   Brian Campbell  01:51 Yeah. I mean, I was, I grew up mostly in Columbus, Ohio. My family was from California, but my dad's job took us to Columbus when I was young. And you know, as I've reflected back on some of my career and the things that have led me to different spots, I think being a kid from Columbus, and regardless of people's feelings about Ohio State, which tend to be fairly negative here at the my current institution, the lens at which I grew up in was through a place with a massive presence of college athletics, you know, everything, everything in that community, with the fabric was Ohio State. I played every sport growing up. I'm very grateful to have grown up at a time where, you know, we went out in the yard, in the neighborhood, and did everything all day. We figured out our differences in the backyard. There are a couple other guys in the neighborhood who went on to very successful athletic endeavors as well. So, you know, athletics were very important all throughout and then as we got more serious and into competitive things later on, they become, you know, more and more formal. But you know, sports and the community were tied together, and they very much provided the context at which my career followed.   Naviere Walkewicz  03:14 That's awesome. So, you're really into sports. Did you have siblings as well? Or where was your neighborhood? Kind of the sibling playground for you.   Brian Campbell  03:22 I have two sisters both swam in college, although if one of them listens to this, I think she had like a cup of coffee on the swim team and realized that the rest of the extracurricular activities were a little bit more appealing. But my little sister swam all the way through in a very competitive college program. But there were but outside, in the streets and in the yard were where we spent our time. We would change by season. So, in the fall, we play football in the yard, and then the winter, you know, you'd shovel off and play basketball, and then in the summer, we'd play baseball. So, so all of the above.   Naviere Walkewicz  04:01 I love that. And I noticed you didn't say you ever went to the pool, so I'm sure that your sisters could definitely outswim you.   Brian Campbell  04:06 I went to the pool too. There was plenty of swimming in our family.   Naviere Walkewicz  04:12 Wonderful. So, you know, life as a child, you were really into athletics, and I think it developed your sense of competitor, you know, being a competitor about and winning. But also, it's probably teamwork. You know, what other things as a child could you share with our listeners about what it was like for you in Ohio?   Brian Campbell  04:32 I think all the above. I think, you know, when you have to work things out. You know, we weren't an era then the kids had cell phones or anything like that. You had to knock on someone's door, see if you could form a team, get out in the front yard and go take care of things. But yeah, we did stuff really. I mean, I'm kind of thinking back to one of my neighbors who went on to play some college football. He one time he broke his leg in the yard and kept playing.   Naviere Walkewicz Oh my goodness.   Brian Campbell Yeah, but, you know, you learn to get along with other people. You know the saying of taking your ball and going home, that's, you know, you have to figure out how to get past those things. And I think the social dynamic that you gain from those experiences very much stayed with me, and I think is some of the foundation and the work that I do now, and being able to identify with different people in different situations.   Naviere Walkewicz  05:28 Alright, so I like what you're sharing about kind of you know, the social aspect that you've experienced growing up. Tell me about how it the Academy came into the picture. Then was it, was there someone that you grew up learning from that went to the Air Force Academy. Or how did that happen?   Brian Campbell  05:46 Well, as a sophomore in high school, as I was thinking of thinking back to some of these things, my dad actually took me to visit West Point, and we had a family friend who went to school there, and I remember going to visit him, and he was probably getting close to maybe in the summer before his senior year, and I remember him like getting pulled aside, and there was something that he had been doing wrong. Maybe. Is it related to escorting guests around the campus? It was during Sandhurst, and so we watched Sandhurst, and honestly, I remember thinking like this does not seem like any way to spend college, but as I went back, I was very fortunate to have like really, really good coaches in my life who were very interested in developing me and growing me and pushing out of my comfort zone. My high school football coach was very hard on me at times, but I think he saw something in me. And you know, when I began to look at colleges, and I was thinking about, like, could I play football somewhere? And there was a variety of schools, and I went on, I went on different visits in different places, and I just remember feeling like nowhere really made a lot of sense for me, like I didn't really feel like any of them really fit the things that were important to me. And then I got the chance to go on a visit to the Air Force Academy, and honestly, I was just like, I just, why not go see Colorado? I've never seen the mountains. So we took the trip out, and I was hosted on my visit by Rob McMenamin, who recently, unfortunately passed away, but was like just the greatest person you know, that could have possibly, that I could have come across at that time, and between him and the people I met on my visit, it was more about the fact that I felt like I was at home, and I had found a group of people that seemed so similar to me that I ended up deciding that that's what I wanted to do. Now we got back to Columbus, and my mom wanted me to talk to someone who didn't play football, and so they somehow found some other cadet, and I had, she's like, “You have to call him and ask him.” So, I called this guy, and I don't even remember his name. We'll see if he listens to the podcast. But he told me he's like, “I don't, I wouldn't do it, you know?” He's like, “It's, it's brutal, it's really hard.” And, oh, wow, I just don't think. But I got off the phone, and it didn't matter to me, like and so for me, it was, maybe it was just a feeling. It was the excitement of being part of something like that. I think I did understand how important the academies are, and what a serious opportunity that was. And maybe it was the fact that I never really thought I would have an opportunity to go to a place like that, but once I, it just kind of sat right, you know, I decided to pursue it.   Naviere Walkewicz  08:48 I love that. And I think what was really key about what you said was it felt like family or you're finding others that are like you. And so how did your parents respond to that? I mean, I think I love that your mom said, “Let's look at both sides.” Let's get everything you know, a perspective that's beyond athletics as well. And so, it's kind of a testament to, probably your upbringing, the fact that your parents are like, let's make some really sound decisions. Would you say that that's the case?   Brian Campbell  09:17 Yeah, I think once my mom got over the fact that it was a military academy. I mean, she asked the one of the coaches that came to our house, like, “What's, what happens afterwards?”, you know, but what was instilled in me at a young age, and when we that, my mom valued education a lot, and so that was, that was in me, and candidly, it was probably the best educational opportunity I was going to have, and it was the best athletic opportunity I was going to have. So those two things were really important. I mean, when we got to the Air Force Academy, I remember my dad being like, “Holy cow, this is a really big deal.” And, you know, I just, I sometimes think back to those times. Times where you know before you go through it, and you see the full grind and all the things that are required, you know, to go through our school, you forget how cool it is from the outside, and the mystique and the things that make it so unique. And I remember, I just remember all that and, and obviously the football piece was a big deal, despite how my football career ended up going to be, to be offered an opportunity to be a part of something like that. Just the weight was, you know, it was so significant, it outweighed any other opportunity I had.   Naviere Walkewicz  10:37 That's wonderful. So, let's talk about that transition then. So, you came to the Academy, you recruited football for what position?   Brian Campbell  10:46 Tight end.   Naviere Walkewicz  10:47 Tight end, awesome. And so, what was, do you remember day one? What was it like coming to the Academy for the second time after your recruiting visit?   Brian Campbell  10:55 Yeah. So, you know, as I think back to my time as a cadet, I mean, the things that really weave through everything are the relationships, and it's interesting. I don't know when we'll broadcast this, but right now we're 4 and 0 here. We just beat South Florida and because we're not for here right now. But okay, that doesn't feel good to me either. But you know, when I was, when I was there, I had a call on the way to Tampa with the first person I met on my recruiting visit at Southgate, when they were trying to figure out how to get us on the base.,   Naviere Walkewicz Really.   Brian Campbell Yeah, and it's just, you know, it's completely normal, you know, or, you know, it's not like we're out of touch. But like that, I talked to that person and the person I spent the day with Saturday before the game was the person that I roomed with in basic training and I still talk to the people that I'm very close with every day. But you know, to this day, the two people I probably met first were, I mean, we're just a very significant amount of time last week. So, I mean, I remember everything. I remember going down the shot line, getting all the things in my arm, and then the blazing hot scissors or whatever they put on our head and everything and then I remember standing in the hallway, but I honestly had no idea what was happening. And I'll never forget that the next morning, when they come and start pounding down the doors, and like, my hands were shaking and they're yelling about, like, BD us. And I was like, “What on earth is a BDU?” And then, you know, I'm like, looking around, trying to figure out what people are going to put on. And then the guy that I was telling you about that I just saw in Tampa, you know, he was a Navy Junior ROTC, so he starts saying, like, sir to people. And like, you know, all chaos broke loose, and we were off and running.   Naviere Walkewicz  12:54 Wow. Well, I could say that your roommate was helpful, but until he said, “Ill sir.”, that might not have been too helpful for you. Yeah, he wasn't running.   Brian Campbell  13:02 Yeah, he wasn't. He wasn't all that helpful.   Naviere Walkewicz  13:05 Wow. So off you went into your four-degree year. What was life like as a cadet for you? I mean, I think you know, you obviously were in football and you were having to do all the academics. So, let's talk about that experience a little bit.   Brian Campbell  13:20 Yeah. I mean, the Academy was really hard for me, you know, as the first place where I was around so many talented people, and probably at a different you know, a lot of them were at a different stage in their journey than I think I was. I was really trying to figure things out as I went. You know, I kind of hit some bumps in the road with my health. And, you know, like anybody that your four-degree years, really, really difficult. And, you know, I showed up, I was probably about, you know, 220 pounds. And they, you know, were eating and eating and eating to try to get bigger. And I think I went home for like, winter break, I was already, like, 250 and, and so, you know, I don't know where things would have gone from there, but that spring of my four-degree year, I started to have some health problems and, and it took them a long time to figure out what was going on. And I was diagnosed with Crohn's disease, and I had lost like, 60 pounds by that point, and it was a really, really difficult period for me, because I was trying to get through school and academics. I tried to keep playing football. Eventually I had to, you know, step away for a little bit and figure out my health. But I learned in that time, a doctor said, like, you can't have Crohn's disease and be in the Air Force. And I remember walking out of the cadet clinic, and I took the elevator up by McDermott, and because it was a doctor's appointment, it's like, everybody's in class, so the place is completely quiet. And I walked out, and it was like just a crystal clear day, like the sky couldn't have been more blue above the Chapel and the Air Gardens are on, and I'm like, I don't want to leave here, you know. And I think that changed my perspective on the entire experience. And it was a really meaningful time for me, because I realized that the things that had already happened there and in a difficult first year were, had made a big impact on me, and I had some, I got some guidance from some other graduates, and they helped me navigate them, the medical process a little bit, and I was able to stay and I just wanted to be there long enough to graduate. And I was fortunate enough to have a little bit more. I managed to blow out both my knees after that. Naviere Walkewicz Oh my goodness!   Brian Campbell Yeah, both ACLs a year apart. So, I kept trying to do stuff, and it kept not working. But, you know, to be a part of the program and the relationships that I have from that, I mean, they still mean the world, even though, even though it was a little bit of a bumpy ride, right?   Naviere Walkewicz  16:03 So, your path, it looked a little different, probably from what you imagined coming to the Academy, especially growing up as the ultra-athlete. You know every sport for every season. Tell us about a little bit how you dealt with some of those challenges, because I think some of our listeners will experience things in life that kind of derail them from what they view as this is my path. And how did you keep your head above the fray and stay in a positive light, I guess, or maybe you didn't. What did that look like as you dealt with each of those challenges throughout the Academy?   Brian Campbell  16:38 Yeah, I mean, I think you learn in basic training there in hard times that you just are making it to the next meal. And I think for me, there was a stretch where I where I did that, and I look back now, and I feel like maybe because of that, there were things the academy offered that I wasn't able to take advantage of. But at the time, you know, I was so focused on just getting through the next thing and being able to kind of maintain my place there. But I think whether I knew it at the time or not, it built a significant resiliency in me, and I was not going to quit. I mean, if they were going to get rid of me, they were going to get rid of me, but I was not going to quit, and I was going to figure out a way to do it. And I think those are, those are elements that are very important in in what I've become and you know how I how I handle things to this day, if you can get through our school and if in everybody has challenges, and everybody has different things in their lives that they face. That's mine just happened to be health related, but I was very fortunate to have a huge support network. I had a great group of friends there. I mean, I had people who were who were rooting for me to be able to be successful and because of that, I was able to, I was able to continue to proceed through it, and all those elements were important for me in being able to do it.   Naviere Walkewicz  18:10 Now that's really, I think, insightful about you, and I think a testament to everyone just kind of finding something next to get to, like, in our case, it was getting to the next meal in basic, you know, you talked about being involved in sports and then having some of these health challenges. What did leadership look like for you at the Academy? Did you find yourself in certain roles where you were leading cadets? Or what did that look like?   Brian Campbell  18:37 Yeah, I mean, maybe this is if any cadets listen. You know, I was not in any, like, significant leadership positions as a cadet. I had, I think, what you would call some of the standard squadron jobs. And as I kind of reflect on, like, what I was learning about myself, you know, I think I tried to do a good job in those but, but, you know, I think I learned that there are formal leadership positions and then there's informal leadership. And what I don't think I appreciated was that, you know, you can still have impact on the people around you, whether or not you know the role dictates it, or your rank dictates it. I recall one time, you know, if you remember the squadron rankings, and we had gone from, like, second to 35th or something like that, and we had the equivalent of what would be like a players only meeting, where they said we were off in the S.A.R., like, trying to figure out, like, why we were in. And really, what you're driven by is there aren't going to be any passes to go anywhere, because at least at that time, it was directly related to how you were doing. And a lot of people talked, and there are a lot of opinions, and I remember finally feeling like I should say something, and I and I talked, and I just remember thinking like everyone seems to be listening. And I kind of noted that at that time, that I wasn't the squadron commander or anything like that, but it seemed like people valued my opinion, and it seemed like it resonated with a large swath of our squadron. And I think I take that with me now, because I believe there's kind of a meritocracy of ideas. You know, we all have rank in our organization, whether it's the military or whether it's something completely different. There's always different people who have different levels of authority. But, you know, I think great teams value ideas that come, that come from anybody.   Naviere Walkewicz  20:38 I think that is just a really important piece of information that you shared, because many times we have some of our developing leaders who may feel that they don't have the ability to share a thought because they think that they're too Junior. And so, what you just said, I think, was really powerful and hopefully empowering for some of our listeners to bring something to the table when they have something to share. So, I really appreciate you sharing that example. That was awesome. So, before we go into graduation, and what that looked like after you graduated, were there any specific people I know you said you had a great network of support. But were there any real like, inspirational leaders that kind of helped shaped you after you left the Academy, or right before you left into your life after the Academy?   Brian Campbell  21:31 Yeah, absolutely. I think that one thing that like means a lot to me are the people that I'm exposed to. I mean, I remember thinking a lot of General Rosa, who was our superintendent at the time. He guided the Academy through a difficult time. My four-degree AOC was just an outstanding leader, Joe Richardson. I have no idea what became of him, but, you know, in a tough year, it was like, every time we went in to our, you know, meet with our squadron, it was always like he had the right thing to say, and his presence was so strong, and we had some bumps in the road in our group that year, and he did everything he could to navigate through it. But, you know, he was, he was the kind of person who was, like, just a strong, inspirational type, type leader, and we needed that. I mean, you know, such a tough year, but you really felt like he was able to give us the energy and the courage to keep going for it, but he was also someone I think we all looked up to. And if you haven't been around the military a lot in your life, and you can see people like he went to our school and look at the kind of person he is now. That's a direction you hope you can follow. And then a completely other style was just being around Coach Deberry who wore his heart on his sleeve and said everything he wanted to say, and it came all out of love and passion. And he just he had that kind of style, and he built an organization that was really family centric and that was important to him. And then even my senior year, when I was just kind of like helping the staff in some different roles there, like when Coach Calhoun came in, it was a completely different style and tactic that he took. So I mean, the great thing about the Academy, I think we all talk about it a lot, is that you're exposed to leadership, you're exposed to cadet leaders, and you see how you respond to those things, too, and you take note of those as you grow, but we have some people who are also, like, very, very, you know, bona fide leaders that we had access to, and that would just be like the beginning of my list. I think now that makes sense.   Naviere Walkewicz  23:53 I'm sure the list is long because of just the exposure that you've had in different in different ways. So, when you graduated, what career field did you go into?   Brian Campbell  24:04 So I went into acquisitions, and my guidance from one of the doctors at the Academy there was, what can we do to take the least amount of grad physicals? So that's what I did.   Naviere Walkewicz  24:16 I was going to ask if that was what your passion was. But it sounds like it well, it teed off into something really well for you, and it also played well into your needs.   Brian Campbell  24:26 For sure, it did. It led me to things down the line, you know, Acquisitions. For me, it was an opportunity to be a part of a great organization. And there were parts of the Air Force that I valued. I also took note that that was probably not the thing that was going to excite me the most, and but I learned a lot about how, how kind of the business side of the Air Force works. And it was, it was still a great experience. I got to go all over the world. I got to be a part of a lot of really cool things that probably even at that age, I didn't really appreciate. I think the challenge for me in that particular career field is that you weren't really around a lot of active-duty Air Force members. And I think I missed that piece a little bit.   Naviere Walkewicz  25:13 Well, I think it's interesting, because one of the things that you've been able to do, I think, is find ways to give back in your career post, you know, military service, so that's probably been really rewarding for you. Can we talk a little bit about, you know, when you decided to transition out of the military? Because we do have listeners that both stay in uniform all the way through retirement and those who don't, who think about transitioning. So, I think it's really relevant. How did you come to that decision, and what did it look like for you?   Brian Campbell  25:44 Well, the Air Force came to the decision for me. So, I was going to PCS to my next station, and I'll never forget when the phone rang in my squadron commander's office. He came. It was like I knew what was going to happen, and the clock had run out on this whole Crohn's disease thing, and I was going to see a medical board and all that, all that kind of stuff. I ended up just saying that that's okay and I'll, I'm not. It was going to be like a year until I could go through that process, which didn't seem like very prudent at the time. I knew I was kind of proverbially playing with house money at that point, I was just so glad to have had my time in the Air Force and to be a part of the organization, you know, at least get to be a captain, but I didn't even fulfill my service commitment. So, it's really about the four and a half year point that that happened. And so, it was a little sudden, because I didn't know that that was going to happen. And so, I decided to kind of step away from the career field the you know, from work, I guess, altogether, and go to business school full time. So I went back to my desk, and I went through all the I got on US News and World Report and started going down the list of business schools and finding out who still had an application deadline available. And like three of the top 25 responded. And from there, I was able to do that. But the great thing for me was that I was able to spend two years away in a fully immersive environment, learning about the business side of management, which is different than the Air Force leadership style that we have in the in the military, and putting those two things together and thinking about some of my initial aspirations of, you know, maybe there's A career in sports. What might that look like? And you just get so, so many opportunities there to get exposed to people in different career fields. And those two years at “Wash U” for me were, were, I'm very, very fortunate to have those. They had a target of getting 10% of the class to be veterans, so I called the right school at the right time, and they were like, hey, just we'll help you. We'll help you figure this out. And they did everything they could to give me that opportunity.   Naviere Walkewicz  28:10 That's amazing. And I was going to ask, did you see the value of what you'd experienced at the Academy coming to play in your program there, that you were able to share with others, and what did leadership look like for you there?   Brian Campbell  28:23 Yeah, so, you know, in business school, it's a constant. I think balance between everything is about shareholder maximization and wealth creation, and they have to teach you those fundamentals. I think Olin did a good job reminding us about character-based management and leadership, and we had classes about critical decisions in leadership and management and things like that. And they brought some very senior business leaders in to talk about key inflection points of things that they had, and then, you know, we had, there's a professor there whose areas, area of study is, you know, economics with a higher purpose, and that's blending, like, how does being doing the right thing, and having something that's beyond just, you know, running your operation to the most efficient manner possible, and he's been able to show that organizations who do that and have a higher purpose are more successful. And so, for me, that is kind of the philosophy that I moved forward with in my career. So very different, very business fundamentals, but as you got towards the end, it was important to them that we understood that it wasn't always everything. Wasn't always about the near-term dollar and that things could your organizations are rewarded for doing the right thing and making decisions in the right way.   Naviere Walkewicz  30:00 Yeah. Yeah, it sounds like you absolutely picked the right program that really aligned with your own core values, you know, your own kind of, I think, navigational system as well as you know where you're wanting to go with things. So, what did that look like? Then, after you graduated, I know you spent some time at Anheuser Busch. Was that kind of just the next part of that journey?       Brian Campbell  30:20 Yeah, so I wanted to get back into sports right away, and so I started a networking process of I tried to meet with NFL teams. I didn't, I just didn't know how or what I was going to do, but I knew that that was my opportunity, a mentor of mine that I did a project for while I was at all. And he well, first of all, I started to find out also what jobs in sports pay. So, anybody listening to this guy's aspirations, just get that part settled for yourself right away. But it didn't matter to me. But I did have a bill I needed to figure out from business school. And his recommendation was, you know, you're down the street from essentially the biggest sports marketer in the world, you know, go there, you know, pursue that, and then figure out down the line if you still want to come back. And that ended up being the perfect step for me. You know, not only did I go to a place that ended up being a bridge back into this work, but Anheuser Busch, and the way that company is run is incredibly efficient and driven and lean and everything there is about value, and it's run by a set of Investment bankers who brought their philosophies into consumer goods, and, and, and they're extremely market share based, but it was, it was really cool to be a part of an organization that does things that way. And candidly, it was probably the other end of the spectrum than just being in the military. And both should operate in the way that they do, but that was such a valuable experience for me to work for an organization like that. I could not have done it forever. So, and I did get over into sports marketing, I ended up having what I think a lot of people would think is like maybe the coolest job of all time. I had the chance to run our whole northwest marketing portfolio. So, I had, you know, our Broncos partnerships and Vail Resorts. It took me back to Colorado to be in that office from, from being in New York City, we had the Seahawks, but it also we had a little college down the street that we had a partnership with called the Air Force Academy.   Naviere Walkewicz  32:39 I was wondering, how you direct to Colorado? That's where it was, yeah.   Brian Campbell  32:43 So, we had an office in Denver, and after a few years of doing that, Anheuser-Busch wants you to move around. They want you to grow. You can't stay in a lot of these jobs forever. And so, I knew there was a point where if I really wanted to do this, and I still felt such a calling to come and do this kind of work, and I kind of felt like I'd never forgive myself if I didn't try. So, I started making a lot of calls and knocking down doors. And eventually, eventually, a position opened back at the Academy, and I, like borderline forced them to hire me,   Naviere Walkewicz  33:15 Brian, I'm seeing a theme. I mean, as a kid, you would knock down doors come play. You know, when you were, got out of the military, when you were when you had to go, you were knocking down doors, “What's open for me?” So, I think the theme for you is, don't be afraid to knock down some doors and just see what's available. You went back to the Academy. Let's talk about your time there and what kind of evolved since then.   Brian Campbell  33:39 So, I came back to the Academy, we had a had the chance to learn a little bit about raising money in our athletic department, and we were coming up on a campaign like the first real significant campaign that had happened at the at the Air Force Academy. I mean, before I got back, I didn't even really know what a campaign was, to give people some context and where I was there, but General Gould said, “Hey, we're going to do this project on Falcon Stadium.” And, you know, and I thought to myself, hey, if I'm going to be here at the Academy, I need to be a part of this project. And so, I transitioned from our athletic department over to our foundation in about in 20-, early 2020, and had the chance to work on the projects that were that were happening there.   Naviere Walkewicz  34:27 So, I think this is helpful. Many of our listeners may not be aware of the ways that some of our foundations support the Academy, and I think through athletics is certainly one way. Can you talk a little bit about what that looks like, so that we can share more about the context of a campaign and giving back?   Brian Campbell  34:45 Yeah, I mean, I think my, my reflection on it is like the government's going to do enough to keep the doors open and provide a basic, solid experience. I think the US News and World Report rankings came out like today, we're number two. We're not number two without private investment. And I hear a lot from young grads about like they're asking me for money. They're asking me for money, and what they're asking you for is to invest in the experience and for us and on our resumes and the prevalence of our of our institution, and this is a competitive world that stuff matters and allows us at the Academy to keep professors that the government wouldn't necessarily be able to keep, to give very enriching research opportunities to cadets that otherwise I don't think we're really there when we were around. And it allows us, you know, militarily and then athletically, to be competitive at the highest level. And you know, when we say excellence in all we do, we're talking about being, you know, excellent in every facet of this of the Academy. And so, we're very fortunate that people have stepped forward at the Academy to invest in these areas and help us shape what they what they've created, and what they've become. And so private investment is a, is a real factor in our success there. And I got the chance to be in the middle of it and have a lot of those discussions and meet people who wanted to help. And it's an opportunity for them to kind of, you know, provide their passion or something they're particularly interested in, to shape the experience of the cadets. So, it's a very enriching process, and it's a really wonderful thing to be a part of.   Naviere Walkewicz  36:47 Well, I can share that, you know, I had the ability to work with you briefly when you came here, and then I joined in 2021 and there was so much that I learned. But I think what was really rewarding for me was to understand that to what you just said, you can actually invest in ways that you feel really compelled and what's important to you at the Academy. And so maybe you can share with our listeners what was something really rewarding, aside from the Kucera Legacy Center coming to life now, and we can talk about that. But what was something really rewarding to you that you were part of in the philanthropic side of our business?   Brian Campbell  37:20 Yeah, I mean not just being a fundraiser there, but I mean the chance to give myself and make the commitments that I could to the Academy that meant a lot to me to be able to help, but I enjoyed seeing like the little grassroots campaigns that were put together that gave cadets reprieve from life and rewarded them for different things. You know, NCLS is an amazing thing that happens there, that you get to take a step back from every year and appreciate the kind of people we bring back and put in front of the cadets. So, I mean, aside from the big projects, there's just stuff every single day, and you get emails from the cadets and ask like, “Hey, can we do this? Can we, what would it take to change our squadron to something else?” And you can help weigh out a little plan. And those aren't the dollars that necessarily drive campaign totals, but they matter because they matter to the cadets and the way that, you know those finances work there it's, you know, so many people have invested in the Foundation and the Association in a way that, you know, all these resources can get directly poured into cadets and because the government keeps the doors open, we can do things that are additionally impactful. You know, at other schools, like where I'm at now, we have to fill an endowment because of how we have to continue to operate the school. So that's not something we, I mean, there's ways that are that's helpful at the Academy too, but it's not as critical at the Academy, because the lights are on and we can be extremely effective in the investments through donors to impact cadets directly.   Naviere Walkewicz  39:06 No, that makes sense. I really like what you said about you got to give yourself. And I think part of what I've been picking up in our conversation is a lot of I think giving and investing is through relationships. And so I think some of the biggest pieces that come from that is the trust and relationships you build with people. Would you agree? Is that kind of how you feel about things?   Brian Campbell  39:26 Yeah, I do. And I you know, if I didn't go to the Air Force Academy, I'm not sure I would be doing this kind of work, even though the Air Force Academy is not designed to put you into this kind of work. But the relationships that I had from the academy and then throughout my time back there, are as important to me as just about anything you just the school exposes you to just such outstanding people. And I'm just very. Be grateful for, for all of those relationships that, that I've had the privilege to have.   Naviere Walkewicz  40:06 So, Brian, we've been talking about the ways we give back and relationships built. Let's, talk a little bit about the Kucera Legacy Center, because we just were able to the ribbon cutting and just beautiful experience with Jack and Vianne. What did it mean to you?   Brian Campbell  40:21 You know, being back at the Academy during the time that I was back, and maybe a lot of the people who listen to this maybe know what has happened on our Academy over the last three years, but the investment that's gone back into our school is just staggering. You know, not only the Kucera Legacy Center, but the Madeira Center, the hotel that's going up, the visitors center, the expansion to do it all, but the Kucera Legacy Center was kind of near and dear to my heart, and it was an opportunity given to me to be a really significant part of the entire project. Was one thing that took every piece of the institution to make happen. But it took Jack and Vianne really specifically. And it wasn't just their investment, but it was like a vision from Jack that I think got us through some times, that you know, maybe in years past, the project would not have, would not have continued on. And you know what I'll remember most is not just working on the gift that they made with them, but like working on the elements that were important to them to see in the facility. And the unique thing about that project is it's not just a facility. It is a way that we can invest back into our Academy and cadets. It's one of the few things on the Academy that can be commercialized and a positive return on investment. So, it's going to be used for a lot of things, but I'll never forget of the groundbreaking. Jack does so much for our school. And he was talking about, you know, why he flies Coach Calhoun around to recruit, and for coach, it's hugely helpful for him to get, you know, Division One coaches essentially have to fly in that manner. They have to fly private to be able to recruit effectively. That's a that's not an easy thing for our school to provide, and so Jack flies coach around a lot. And you know, I know Jack wants us to win football games, because I've watched some football games with him, and he's like one of the few people that can match as tense and nervous as I am, but he talked about the fact that everywhere they go, they knock on a door, and Coach Calhoun is giving some young person an opportunity to change their life. And you know, for them, we have this beautiful facility. Now, I can't wait to come back and see it, but I think that's what it is for them, is that's maybe the physical manifestation of their gift is knowing that, you know when, when, when young people accept that opportunity to come to the Air Force Academy, and they probably wouldn't have gotten it for this particular subset without a sport, that they can change their lives. And you know, watch being a part of that, even the small little part that I was is something that I think is a really, really significant part of my career and my journey.   Naviere Walkewicz  43:30 Wow. I mean, that's almost a 360 for you, right? You were someone who was given that opportunity, and now thinking about the future cadets that are going to be given a similar opportunity with something that you were part of in such a legacy and visionary manner, from Jack and Vianne. I mean, it's just incredible.   Brian Campbell  43:48 Yeah, absolutely.   Naviere Walkewicz  43:51 So, Brian, you have taken a role at the University of Miami, and let's talk a little bit about that. So, you were able to do some things here at the Academy. How's it been in the transition for you there at UM?   Brian Campbell  44:04 I mean, it's been, it's been crazy. So, you know, we're in the real battle of college athletics down here at a time that's very dynamic. It's an unbelievable opportunity to be a part of a traditional powerhouse with really, really significant aspirations, but a big part of it for me as I had the chance to come down here and work for a really high level team at a time that the school wanted to invest in athletics. And you know, the athletic director that I work for here, he won two national titles at Clemson. We have multiple other former division one athletic directors on our staff, and we do transformational things around this campus through athletics, but for other areas, our medical system and our academic side as well. So, it's been a challenge for me to get to learn the dynamic here. You know, at the Air Force Academy, a lot of people have a lot of thoughts on a lot of things. Miami supporters have a lot of thoughts on one thing, and that's winning football games. But, you know, the fundamentals remain the same, and I've been given a chance to kind of reshape the way we do this work. And for those that follow college athletics, it's been at a very, very fascinating time where there's huge change in the industry. There's a ton of uncertainty, and it's really forced me to think a lot about how we do our work and why we do it. And I think as a lot of people probably think that with Nio and possible rev-share and things like that, that we're losing the fabric of college athletics. There are little instances of that, but we are able to kind of double down on other ways to make an impact on our student athletes here and invest in their lives. So, it's been it's a challenge. We have a lot of work to do, but we're on the road, having some successes is really helpful. And being in a place that has really, really high expectations is really special to be a part of.   Naviere Walkewicz  46:16 So, you talked a bit about the fundamentals, and so what have you taken from your time at the Academy throughout your career to bring to UM now?   Brian Campbell  46:27 Yeah, I think the noise in college athletics and our work has become more complex. I took the opportunity to kind of distill things back down to the core mission of what we do, and that's to positively impact lives through excellence in athletics and our team, our role in that effort is to is to invest in those areas. So, we focus on, you know, kind of three key areas to do that. One of them is performance, kind of elite performance. The next one is what we call champions for life, which is investing in academics and in student athlete development. And then the last one is competitive excellence, and that's acknowledging that there's an area now with Nio and possible revenue share with athletes that we also have to be competitive in. But I've encouraged our team to think about, like, what the real purpose of our work is, and like what we do every day. And I think I kind of touched on a little bit of that earlier, when things got really confusing in the industry and stuff like that, understanding that, like our job really is simply to enrich an experience for our student athletes here, and best prepare them for the world. And if we do that really well, we're going to be really successful. And when we talk about that purpose on our team, you know, I try to find people to join our team who are going to resonate with that. And for me, I think when you identify with that purpose and kind of the core elements of it, it also makes me better at what I do, and better at leading and being authentic with the team that there are challenges but in there, and we're in a we're in an environment with headwinds and high expectations and high levels of competitiveness. But if we can focus on doing those things, we're going to make we're going to make every bit the kind of impact that has always been made in college athletics.   Naviere Walkewicz  48:33 So, what have you learned about yourself as a leader throughout this journey? It sounds like you've had just various opportunities to understand who you are in different roles. How does that translate in your leadership? What does that look like to our listeners?   Brian Campbell  48:49 Yeah, I think what I've learned over time is that in the Air Force, you are in the people business, and everything we do is kind of by for and through people. And I'm not sure if I understood it, even when I was in the beer business, but really, you're in the beer business, you're in the beer business, or you're in the people business, and your product is beer. And then now I'm kind of in the in the middle of this now, where we have a product, but our product, once again, is people. Now we have to be, you know, commercially viable, and there's a there's a significant financial side of what we do. But I think back to my time at the Academy, and I think one thing you can't escape at the Academy is that you know you're bringing your whole self every day to what we're doing. You know you are you're in it. You don't go home anywhere else. So, your squadron is where you live, and, and you realize that you know what's happening in your life, and, and, and for anybody that's on the team, like they're going to bring it with them, and, for me, I've thought, I think we talk a lot in business and leadership about acknowledging that and being there for people and being empathetic. But the other side of it is, you know, if our people are our most important asset, then what are we doing to invest in them and through, you know, this is a really busy kind of work, and authentically making sure that my team knows, and I hope that they do that we're going to try to grow them, and we're going to try to reward them for being successful, because it matters to the bottom line. It's not just the right thing to do. It helps move us forward, because if we're improving the conditions that they can go home to and spend with their families, we're going to get a better version of them, and it's going to improve the work that we do. So I think being in such an immersive type of place like the Air Force Academy, you realize that there is no turning it off when you leave or go somewhere, we go through difficult times, but we also have the opportunity in these kinds of roles to improve that and make sure people are fulfilled and finding their purpose in our work. And inevitably, I really do believe that that impacts our bottom line.   Naviere Walkewicz  51:21 What fulfills you and your work as a leader?   Brian Campbell  51:26 I mean, there's so much. This is what I love to do. And I love to be around the competition side of things, and I love to see when we're able to make something happen, a donor's vision to invest in our student athletes. And, you know, you see some of the things that they go on to accomplish, and you see what it means to the institution. I mean, you know, here, I think sometimes we think like, wow, college football in America is just bonkers, and it's crazy. It's gone off the rails, you know. But here at the University of Miami, you know, we have a we have a really, we have the biggest research based health system in South Florida, and it's the same logo that's on our helmet and that health system is successful because we have a very strong brand through football mostly, and In so I think we take that very seriously, that you know our work is directly tied to things that happen, not only on our campus, but in the healthcare system here as well. But you know, the true where the rubber meets the road is seeing the success that you know our student athletes have and enriching their experience and being able to tie that back to the people that make that possible.   Naviere Walkewicz  52:45 So, if we have any listeners that are interested in getting into the gift officer kind of role, the ability to help others invest, what would you share with them as maybe just a path or things to be considering?   Brian Campbell  52:59 Yeah, I mean, fundraising and development's a whole it's a whole industry, and it would be great to have more grads that would come into this kind of work. I mean, I was often asked by donors at the academy, why more people? Why more grads aren't doing it? And it's a unique it's a unique career path, but if there's elements of things that are meaningful to you, and you think that you know, nonprofit work might be appealing. Fundraising is a great way to do it. There's ups and downs. It's challenging. There's a bit of a craft to learn to it, but it's, this is not rocket science in any way. But if I really thought I was going to do it, I'd pick up the phone and call a grad who does it. I can think of a couple names off the top of my head and just ask and start to network. And when I moved over into college athletics in order to do that, I mean, I probably made 500 phone calls, and I always ask someone for the next name and network that way. And I received tremendous advice, and it was really good practice for what I ended up doing. I would encourage. I would love it if more would come into this line of work. You heard it here first friends, yeah, we'll see how effective it is.   Naviere Walkewicz  54:15 That is wonderful. Well, we're going to get into a couple more things before, before our podcast ends. So, Brian, I just want to ask you in advance so you have some time to think about this. Our listeners want to know something unique about you, maybe something that you haven't shared with anybody you know, something fun or some kind of talent you have. So, I'll give you a little bit of time to think about that, and then we're also going to want to hear your takeaways. So, before we get there, we're going to ask for Brian's final thoughts next. Before we do that, I'd like to take a moment and thank you our listener for listening to long blue leadership. The podcast publishes Tuesdays in both video and audio, and is available on all your favorite podcast platforms. Be sure to watch or listen to all episodes of Long blue leadership@longblueleadership.org All right, so Brian, welcome back, and we're really excited. Our listeners love to learn things here on Long Blue Leadership that they can only hear here. So, would you mind sharing with us something that is unique about you?   Brian Campbell  55:15 Well, I think before the break, you mentioned a talent, so I'm going to take credit for this being a talent during covid, I started getting into, like, amateur mixology, and so, yeah, at home. Now this is maybe a dangerous habit to have, but I do, I do share some of my work with some of the administration there still so, so it's definitely bled into Doolittle Hall a little bit, but I've learned to make, like, very specific cocktails and stuff like that. And I love doing it. I love trying something new all the time. So, I don't know if that's a talent or not. People can come have a have a drink with me at my house and decide to do when you have, when you have two little kids, you need to bring the fun. Needs to be at home. That's right, yeah, so, so, so that's, that's kind of my unique interest, I guess, more than a talent.   Naviere Walkewicz  56:13 We love that. So maybe we'll see a line down the road of a series of Campbell drinks. Or…   Brian Campbell  56:21 …yes, yeah, I do name some of them after things at the Academy.   Naviere Walkewicz  56:25 Just so, you know, okay yeah, I guess I could ask you to share one of them, maybe one name.   Brian Campbell  56:30 Well, you know, a lot of good supporters were in the class of '75 so I changed French '75 to '75 Best Alive.   Naviere Walkewicz  56:39 Love that.   Brian Campbell  56:43 People have no idea what I'm talking about.   Naviere Walkewicz  56:45 I would want to twist to that. I would want to twist that and skip it. So that's fantastic. Thank you for sharing that well. Before we close, we really like to leave our listeners with just a couple of key leadership nuggets that you'd like them to have. What would you leave our listeners with, Brian?   Brian Campbell  57:03 Yeah, you know, I think as I look at some of the people that were on this podcast, I mean, you have some folks who are very, very accomplished and at the top of their fields, and then you have some others who are at the beginning of their careers and heading down that, that road. You know, for me, I'm probably in the middle of it. And as I look at the arc of my career, I don't think I've arrived as a leader and I, but I started to think that I probably that I would be willing to bet that General Clark might say the same thing, and Coach Calhoun might say the same thing. So, I think it's always a work in process, but I think it's important to be really authentic with people, and that has worked. It's worked well for me, especially when those decisions are consistent with being authentic to what we're trying to accomplish. And the other thing that's meant the most to me, and is just surrounding myself with the best people possible, and that has continued to help me grow and evolve, and not just the people I hire, but I think back to my time working there at the academy and how cool it is in a you know, couple year period I was around, you know, Mark Welsh and Dana born, and Jack Kucera and Paul Madera and the Brunies (SP?) and Mike Gould and these kinds of people. And that's who I had the chance to surround myself with, and I, think that that has more to do with me having other opportunities in my career to go grow and learn at a different place and hopefully be successful here as much as anything that I did. And so I think a lot about the elements that we put into it, because it's hard on a daily basis to know if you're doing a good job being a leader, but if you take those pieces of the fabric that we learned at the Academy, and you keep doing it the right way and thinking about these things and surrounding yourself by people with surrounding yourself with people of those kinds of values, and people that you can take little pieces of what they do and try to try to bring them with You. I think it's the right road.   Naviere Walkewicz  59:22 Well, Brian, it's been a pleasure. I know I've just taken away some things, and in our time together here, learning about you, but also just inspiring me thinking about how we can give and it really is a pleasure. I can't wait to see where your trajectory of your career takes you and the ways that you'll continue to make an impact.   Brian Campbell  59:39 Wow. Thank you. Naviere, it was great to be a part of it. Thank you everyone at the Association and the Foundation. I'm glad that we have a podcast. I know that there's so many efforts that are happening to connect with grads at all stages in their careers and their journey, and I just really appreciate that. Audience to be on and all the incredible work that's happening back there at our school.   Naviere Walkewicz  1:00:06 Thank you. So, we can end with the Go Falcons, right?   Brian Campbell  1:00:08 Yeah. Beat Army, sink Navy!   KEYWORDS Brian Campbell, Air Force Academy, leadership, growth, development, athletics, fundraising, University of Miami, Kucera Legacy Center, resilience, sports marketing, philanthropy       The Long Blue Line Podcast Network is presented by the U.S. Air Force Academy Association and Foundation        

Show Notes OCF MINISTRY NEWS  Job opening at the U.S. Coast Guard Academy: Contact PK Carlton (pk.carlton@ocfusa.org) or Marci Morris (marci.morris@ocfusa.org) for more info, or visit ocfusa.org/job-openings to learn more about and apply for the opening at USCGA. Applications are open until 31 Oct.   In His Service Retreat for women in uniform: Visit events.navigators.org/women-in-uniform-in-his-service-retreat-2024 for more details about this retreat coming up in Jefferson, Texas.  OCF Mid-Atlantic & Northeast Fall Retreat: Visit whitesulphursprings.org/events to learn more and register, and email any questions to the Chiaravallottis at midatlantic@ocfusa.org.     Winter Retreats at OCF Conference Centers: Visit whitesulphursprings.org/winter-retreat to register for one of White Sulphur Springs' Winter Retreat sessions, or visit springcanyon.org/winter-retreat to register for one of Spring Canyon's Winter Retreat sessions.  ASK OCF  LTC Ryan Wainwright, USA (Ret.), who serves as the Assistant Director of Field Operations, answered this question from another OCFer: Is our membership expanding or contracting?  OCF isn't just for military officers—anyone sincerely able to sign the Statement of Faith and Participation and agree with the OCF Biblical Guidelines for Member Conduct can become a member of OCF. To become a member, first acknowledge your agreement with the Statement of Faith, then visit ocfusa.org/join to fill out the form.   If you have a question that you want us to consider for a future “Ask OCF” segment, send an email to podcast@ocfusa.org.  GUEST SPOTLIGHT  Today's guest spotlight features Col PK Carlton, USAF (Ret.), who currently serves as OCF's Director of Field Staff. In this role, he focuses on the care and engagement for our Field Staff at the four Service Academies and our Gateway ministries at Leavenworth and Maxwell.   PK and his wife Lindsey have served as Local Leaders across their Air Force career, later serving as Ministry Team at USAFA that led to them leading the USAFA ministry for two years. They love having cadets over and mentoring young officers and have a heart for the Field Staff and their families that serve our key ministries.  Earlier this year, PK led a retreat session for USAFA cadets at Spring Canyon (springcanyon.org) to unpack this frequently asked question in OCF circles: “How do I evangelize in uniform?” PK joined us on Crosspoint to share some of the encouragement he gave those cadets and to share his own testimony as well.  If you would like to share your own story, complete the form on OCF's “Be a Guest” webpage. Alternatively, if you have an idea for a guest or topic we should consider for a future episode of the show, send an email to podcast@ocfusa.org.  POINTS TO PONDER  As you listen to this conversation with PK, here are a few questions to ponder in your personal time, with a small group, or with a mentor:  How do you feel about evangelism, and what experiences have shaped your impression?   Why is it important to keep Matthew 5:16 and Romans 10:14 in mind when thinking about sharing your faith?  Who might be able to mentor you in evangelism?  What techniques have you found work well for sharing your own testimony? 

Dr. Kimberly Dickman discusses an epidemic of loneliness across the United States and the impact that it's having on mental health.  She also shares the importance of developing meaningful connections, and how those connections influence our overall well-being.     This podcast is made possible by generous funding from the USAA Foundation.     Audio mixing by Concentus Media, Inc., Temple, Texas.   Show Notes:   Resources:   Dickman, K. (2024, July). Loneliness: The New Global Pandemic. On the Move. Summer 2024 https://militarychild.org/news-and-publications/   PERMA Theory of Well-Being https://ppc.sas.upenn.edu/learn-more/perma-theory-well-being-and-perma-workshops   Barbara Fredrickson: How Love and Connection Exist in Micro-Moments https://psychology.unc.edu/2021/11/30/barbara-fredrickson-explains-how-shared-positive-emotions-make-us-happier-healthier-and-more-connected/   Bio: Dr. Kimberly S. Dickman serves as an assistant professor at the U.S. Air Force Academy Center for Character and Leadership Development (CCLD), where she leads the Healthy Relationship Education and Emotional Intelligence branch of the Development Division in the Center. CCLD's mission is to advance the understanding, scholarship, practice, and integration of character and leadership development, resulting in cadets and permanent party prepared for service to the nation.   Dr. Dickman is a licensed clinical professional counselor and certified educator. She began her work in education for the Department of Defense in 1991. During her 20+ years of civilian service she has performed at the Wing and Headquarters Air Force level before coming to USAFA. Of note is her work in the Sexual Assault Prevention and Response program where she focused on education, analysis, and prevention science. Her extensive experience allows her to serve at USAFA as faculty and lead in topics such as healthy relationships, emotional intelligence, positive psychology, prevention science, human sexuality, and leadership development. She teaches Human Sex, Reproduction, and Sexuality in the Biology Department and Applied Positive Psychology in the Behavioral Science and Leadership Department.    Dr. Dickman is widely recognized and is frequently requested to present across the DoD and on a national scale.

Joining us today is a new addition to the Cowboy roster, 2x All-American and USAFA graduate Wyatt Hendrickson talks about his calling to serve our country and using wrestling as a vehicle to do so.

A conversation with 2nd Lt. Madison Marsh '23, the first active duty military member to be crowned Miss America 2024, about her  background, leadership experiences, transition to Harvard Kennedy School, and key lessons on empathetic leadership and following one's passions.   SUMMARY Second Lieutenant Madison Marsh, the first active-duty military member and Miss America 2024, discussed her journey and leadership experiences. She highlighted her foundation for pancreatic cancer research, her academic achievements, and her role as a mentor at the Air Force Academy. Marsh emphasized the importance of empathetic leadership, mental health support, and balancing personal and professional life. She shared her transition from aspiring to be an astronaut to focusing on public policy and her current studies at Harvard Kennedy School. Marsh underscored the significance of passion, support from family and mentors, and the impact of diverse perspectives on leadership.   OUR FAVORITE QUOTES "Don't ask your people to do something that you are not willing to do yourself." - Second Lieutenant Madison Marsh "Your life is too short to live it for someone else or to do things that you are not passionate about." - Second Lieutenant Madison Marsh "I knew that if I put 100% into something I'm passionate about, the outcome and the impact that I'm gonna have is going to be far greater than forcing myself into this idea of who other people want me to be." - Second Lieutenant Madison Marsh "Leaning on people, whether it is your partner or a loved one, that is how you're going to succeed in life." - Second Lieutenant Madison Marsh "Being an empathetic leader, being a leader who goes by example. So don't ask your people to do something that you are not willing to do yourself." - 2nd Lieutenant Madison Marsh   SHARE THIS EPISODE FACEBOOK  |  LINKEDIN  |  INSTAGRAM     CHAPTERS 00:00:  Empathetic Leadership: The Foundation of Success 02:43:  Journey to the Air Force Academy: A Personal Story 11:33:  Overcoming Tragedy: The Power of Support 16:18:  Leadership Lessons from the Academy 28:31:  Navigating Career Changes: Finding Passion 45:02:  Key Takeaways: Empathy and Passion in Leadership     TAKEWAYS Embrace empathetic leadership - Truly understanding and supporting your team members, even when they are struggling, is crucial for effective leadership. Lead by example - As a leader, you should be willing to do anything you ask of your team and not ask them to do something you wouldn't do yourself. Follow your passions - Pursuing work and activities you are truly passionate about will lead to greater fulfillment and impact than forcing yourself into a path for others. Build a strong support network - Relying on partners, mentors, and loved ones can provide the encouragement and guidance needed to overcome challenges. Prioritize self-care - Taking time for your own mental, physical, and emotional well-being is essential to being an effective leader and avoiding burnout.     ABOUT MADISON Second Lieutenant Madison Marsh, crowned Miss America 2024, poses in a Colorado Air National Guard hanger on Buckley Space Force Base on August 7, 2024. Marsh embodies service in and out of uniform, proving that you can achieve your dreams and goals while serving in the United States Air Force.  Image Credit:  Ms. Miram Thurber, Air Force Recruiting Service Public Affairs 2nd Lt. Madison Marsh, USAFA class of '23, and Miss America 2024 is the first active-duty member of the military to hold the title.  She is also the first such title holder in 50 years for Colorado. She attained her private pilot license at the age of 16. She is a highly accomplished humanitarian, scholar and service member. After the loss of her mother in 2018 to pancreatic cancer, she established a foundation to raise funds for research to fight the disease. When she became a cadet, she excelled in her physics and astronomy studies, winning a Truman scholarship and is now pursuing her master's in public policy at Harvard Kennedy School.     CONNECT WITH MADISON Instagram:  @‌missamerica  |  @‌madiisabellaa     ABOUT LONG BLUE LEADERSHIP Long Blue Leadership drops every two weeks on Tuesdays and is available on Apple Podcasts, TuneIn + Alexa, Spotify and all your favorite podcast platforms. Search @AirForceGrads on your favorite social channels for Long Blue Leadership news and updates!          FULL TRANSCRIPT OUR SPEAKERS Guest, 2nd Lt. Madison Marsh '23  |  Host, Lt. Col. (Ret.) Naviere Walkewicz '99 Naviere Walkewicz  00:22 My guest today is Second Lieutenant Madison Marsh, USAFA Class of 23 and newly crowned Miss America.  This is a first for an active-duty member of the military and one for the Colorado history books in that she is the first such title holder in 50 years for the Academy's home state. But there is much, much more to Lieutenant Marsh, including her attaining a private pilot's license at the age of 16. She is a highly accomplished humanitarian, scholar and service member. After the very difficult loss of her mother in 2018 to pancreatic cancer, she established a foundation to raise funds for research and to fight the disease. When she became a cadet, she excelled in physics and astronomy, earning a Truman Scholarship, and is now pursuing her Master's in Public Policy at Harvard Kennedy School. We'll talk with Lieutenant Marsh about her most meaningful and impactful experiences at the Academy in research, athletics, leadership and character development. We'll discuss her speaker role at this year's National Character and Leadership Symposium, and ask how her new role as a national speaker and influencer informs her mission and message. And finally, we'll have the lieutenant share a few takeaways on leadership and character development with you, our listeners. Lieutenant Marsh, welcome to Long Blue Leadership. We're so glad to have you.   2nd Lt. Madison Marsh '23  Thank you so much for having me. Naviere Walkewicz  Absolutely. And before we dive in, as we normally do, we'd love to know how things have been going since you've been crowned.   2nd Lt. Madison Marsh '23  01:51 It has been very, very busy. I've been really lucky that the Air Force decided to keep me on active duty this year, because not only am I getting to serve in a uniform like this, but I'm also getting to serve in that crown and sash. And so, there's so many different experiences that I've gotten to have, whether it's a mixture of days that I'm going and promoting the military, or days that I'm doing a very different type of service. So I never know what I'm gonna' get every day that I wake up on the job. So it's been pretty cool.   Naviere Walkewicz  02:16 That is awesome. Can you share something that's really stuck out to you as just really memorable?   2nd Lt. Madison Marsh '23  02:21 So far, one of my favorite trips that we went on was Normandy for the D-Day anniversary, and I loved it because I had actually gone there last year, right after I commissioned with my fiancé, that was one of the first things we saw as officers. And now getting to go back with a year under my belt with a very different experience, I got to really see that history for like firsthand again. And I just think every time that I look at those headstones, it reminds me of what it means to put on our uniform, what our flag really means to me. And now being able to have that firsthand experience and sharing that with students across the nation, because I want people to understand what it means to serve every day, to hopefully invite people to come and join us and get excited about what service is.   Naviere Walkewicz  03:06 Oh, that's incredible. And, I mean, I think just to reiterate your commitment to service, and then to be able to see how you carry that message through history, I think is really powerful. Oh, that's amazing. I imagine that it's been a whirlwind, and you're looking forward to much more as well. Yes, does it feel like it's flown by?   2nd Lt. Madison Marsh '23  03:21 Yes, I feel, I think I have, like, four and a half months left. And I mean, every day I wake up and it's like three weeks later apparently.   Naviere Walkewicz  03:31 Well, I'm sure that to you it feels like it's flying by, but to everyone else it's a moment in time that they can really connect with you. So, your message is so powerful. We're glad that you're representing. Well, we'd love to dive into our podcast so our listeners can get to know you a little bit more and really experience leadership through your journey. So, we like to start by going into childhood. Okay, do you mind sharing a little bit about what you were like as young girl?   2nd Lt. Madison Marsh '23  03:55 Oh, let's see. I'd always loved science. Okay, so that was the big thing. I had wanted to be a paleontologist, a volcanologist. I wanted to be a scientist that lived with gorillas and studied them in the forest, which was…   Naviere Walkewicz  04:08 Was that inspired by a movie, or just…   2nd Lt. Madison Marsh '23  04:10 I don't know where that even started from. I think I was like, that sounds cool. My parents were like, What is she talking about then? And then, kind of going more into junior high, I wanted to be a marine biologist, and because I went on submarine biology camp, that was what sparked my interest in space, so that I had a very big shift that brought me to wanting to be an astronaut, which is ultimately why I ended up at the Academy. So, there was all these little things of interest throughout science my whole life that now made me put on the uniform.   Naviere Walkewicz  04:42 So Wow, very long, weird journey to get there. Well, I'm sure it was an adventure for you and your family. Yes, are you an only child? Or do you have siblings?   2nd Lt. Madison Marsh '23  04:47 I'm one of five. So, we are a mixed family. I have three older half siblings and older brother Nick, older brother Chris, older sister Sarah. Then there's me and my younger sister, Heidi. So, big family.   Naviere Walkewicz  04:59 Yes, and they're all adventurous like you?   2nd Lt. Madison Marsh '23  05:01 I would say so. I think we're all very different, like my older brothers, they were the huge athletes in our high school. I was not as much of an athlete in high school like I still loved fitness and gym, but I was the band geek. I was the one that was on Quiz Bowl and Science Bowl. My brothers did not. They didn't have the same interest in high school but now they're loving, like, they work in the tech industry. My older sister works in the tech industry. So, I'd say all of my siblings, now that we're in our adulthood, are very focused on, like, all STEM careers. So, it's been cool.   Naviere Walkewicz  05:36 That is amazing. And I love that you mentioned, you know, being a band geek. And I think a lot of people wonder, “Can I, what does that look like down the road?” And just to embrace, I think, our passion? So, what did you play?   2nd Lt. Madison Marsh '23  05:46 So, I played clarinet and contrabass clarinet. So that's like the big six foot tall…   Naviere Walkewicz  05:52 Oh my goodness.   2nd Lt. Madison Marsh '23  05:52 I was this tiny little kid in the ninth grade. Whenever I got to play contrabass, they have to put you on this really tall chair. And so, there's very hilarious videos of me that my family basically uses this blackmail of me playing that journey. I was so proud of it when I brought it home, my parents were like, oh, it's six feet tall. When I brought it home, they were like, “Why was Madison picked for this? She's gonna' be playing this in the house all day.” And it's this really deep, extremely loud noise. And they're like, “Okay, we thought we could deal with the clarinet, but this is, this is next level.”   Naviere Walkewicz  06:27 Well, I guess you know the good thing about that, it wasn't a drum set, right?   2nd Lt. Madison Marsh '23  06:30 That's true. There's grateful for that. Absolutely.   Naviere Walkewicz  06:34 Wow, so you all got involved in STEM. Do you have military members in your family as well that you knew? That's when you said astronaut and Air Force Academy that helped guide that for you or no?   2nd Lt. Madison Marsh '23  06:43 So my grandfather had served, but I had never met him. He passed away, I believe, either whenever I was like a newborn, or maybe a couple years prior, so that, I guess, didn't really influence my decision in the military. The biggest part of it was when I went to space camp in junior high, and I met a bunch of astronauts there. And so, after hearing story after story from them, and getting to go and do really cool experiments, like at space camp, you're building rockets, you're pretending to be an astronaut, like we did a mission to Mars where I got to be a botanist. And so, all of that really influenced my decision on how do I become an astronaut? And so, the story I kept hearing was all of them, for the most part, that I'd met were in the military. They were test pilots, they were fighter pilots. So, I started to figure out, how can I go down that path? Discovered the Air Force Academy and knew that was going to be one of the best places to getting a pilot slot, and even though I am not going down that astronaut path anymore because of those initial dreams and those aspirations that has opened up so many doors now for the rest of my career. So, it's been cool to see how it's evolved over time as I've grown up.   Naviere Walkewicz  07:46 Oh, that's amazing. And I think it's part of what you've learned in your journey is there's a bit of, like, flexibility and kind of, you know, learning along the way. So, it sounds like you did some of that even as a young girl. Okay, so how did you get into the Academy? You applied? Was it just kind of the typical application process? Did you talk to a lot of other cadets? I'm just curious what that looked like for you.   2nd Lt. Madison Marsh '23  08:08 I think I don't know if I spoke to a ton of cadets at the beginning. I remember I used to watch on YouTube, like while I was getting ready for bed, I would watch videos of like the jump team, or different anything from the Academy. And I was like, that is where I need to be. And we have a cool thing at our school where they have an entire military day. It's like on a Saturday. So, they bring every branch. They have people that represent active duty, reserve, guard, all of the academies, enlisted officer, anything that you could think of. They have them set up all in our hallway. And I knew at that point that I wanted to go to the Academy. And so, what I did is I basically printed out all of my essays that I knew that people had had to submit in the past for the Academy. I did resumes. I came with my GPA, everything, and I walked right up to my congressman, and I handed it to him, and I said, I went to him, and I said, “I want to go to the Air Force Academy, and I want to be your nominee.” And I'm sure he was like, “Who's this?” So, I was very firm early on, and so we were able to start an incredible relationship with one another. And so, because I did that, I think that was maybe my junior year, early on in my junior year, when it came time my senior year, he fought for me all of the time to get my application in front of people, because I was his principal nominee, and we had a very, very special moment. So, he called me on October 31, and told me that I had gotten early acceptance to the Academy, and so I got to tell my mom, and the next morning, she passed away. So having an experience like that is… that's why the Academy and Congressman Womack are so special to me, because that was my dream for years, and my mom got to know before she passed away. And it's just everything happens at the right timing, and you never know until afterwards. And so now I get to be here. Now I get to wear the uniform, and even though she hasn't gotten to see it, she got to know about it. And just because of those first instances where I marched up to him and I said, like, “I want to be here.” I got to have experiences like that. And now I get to have wonderful experiences of now serving post Academy life.   Naviere Walkewicz  10:16 I think what you just shared was so powerful in multiple ways. I think the first way is, you know, really being clear and what you wanted to do and to not, you know, take a step back and accept anything, unless you walked right up to him and said, This is what I want to do. You establish yourself, I think, and then to have, I think, that moment where he did fight for you and before your mom passed, having that, I mean, I can't even… Just share thank you for sharing that with me.   2nd Lt. Madison Marsh '23  10:45 He is also a huge part of all the scholarships and applications I've ever done. Anytime that I've ever needed someone to write me a recommendation letter. Congressman Womack has been one of the first people to do it. And I remember when I got the Truman Scholarship. I had asked them, like, what do I need to do for the because I was going to go and compete for the Rhodes and Marshall Scholarship the next year. And I was like, what were the strongest parts and what were the weakest parts of my application? And they said one of my strongest parts of my application, literally, was the letter that he wrote. They said that, like, you never get to see what they write, because they have to submit it to a portal. You're not allowed to look. And they were like, what he put in there, put everything like, pushed it far, far past the line. And I'll never know what he said, but I'm extremely grateful for him always believing in me. He actually had a really cool moment after I won Miss America this past year, he went on the floor of Congress and, like, read out all this stuff about what we had done together, being from his home district and growing up there, so it's been really cool to see how our relationship has evolved over time, because he has always supported he's such a big military promoter, and just getting to have that relationship and also use him as a mentor when times were tough at the Academy, being able to call him up and being like, I'm struggling. I know you helped me get in here, but I'm struggling right now. And he was always there to have an open mind to kind of guide me through, to make sure that I made it out at the end of the day.   Naviere Walkewicz  12:12 Wow. I think having those champions in life not only help us get through things, but help shape us that we will be champions for others in the future. Do you see that something that kind of was ingrained in you from that experience?   2nd Lt. Madison Marsh '23  12:22 Yes, I think, I mean, we were kind of talking about this earlier, about how I reflect on all of my experiences and look at the fact that I would have accomplished nothing without the people that had helped me, and I now want to be that person, even if it's only a little fraction in someone else's life to help them, because they recognize you don't go anywhere alone, you don't accomplish anything alone. And there have been countless mentors, teachers, family members, loved ones, that had poured into me, and now it's my turn to give that back to them.   Naviere Walkewicz  12:51 Amazing. So, you got into the Academy, it was a beautiful thing for you and your family, and while you were there, that's when you formed the foundation. Is that what I'm understanding from a timing perspective?   2nd Lt. Madison Marsh '23  13:03 So, I started the foundation my senior year of high school. So, my mom had passed away, and it was something that my family started literally two weeks afterwards, because watching my mom go through everything, I had recognized that we need to give something positive back to people. And a big part of just pancreatic cancer, is that educational aspect of making sure families around the nation know the signs, the warning, the warning signs, the symptoms. Because that was something that we had no clue with my mom. She was 41 years old when she was diagnosed and passed away. It was a very, very quick turnaround, and so we started it then, then I went off to the Academy. So that's something that I have fun doing on the side and learning a lot of leadership through that as well, because now we've expanded, and I lead about 20 volunteers from across the nation, and it is something that I have not done before, especially like virtually, since we have people all over. So that has been a very big learning lesson this past year, and now I'm getting to use all the cool stuff from the Academy to figure out how to lead people in and out of uniform, because that's something that has been a huge part of my life at the academy, was making sure we serve outside of this, because we have so much time. And I think at the Academy, you often feel like your life only exists inside of the black gates, but there's so much that you can do for people outside of that before you even put on the uniform every day.   Naviere Walkewicz  14:22 I think that's really powerful in sharing that because, you know, I think about your family, and first, I just want to thank you for sharing that difficult time. Because, you know, listeners, we have all different experiences in life, and you know, we all experience, at times, some kind of tragedy. And I think sharing how you found a way you and your family to work through that, and, like you said, kind of provide a perspective for others. You know, maybe if I could just touch on that, and we can, we can move forward while you're at the cadet, when you're a cadet. But can you just touch on, you know, how might you suggest someone find a way to get through some tragedy, maybe through a lens of leadership? Or if they're helping others that are experiencing tragedy.   2nd Lt. Madison Marsh '23  15:03 I think there were two really big parts for me. One of them was knowing when to ask for help. That is something that I talk about in academics, and that is something that I also talk about in personal life, because I wouldn't have been able to make it through the Academy had I not received help. So, one of the things that I did whenever I went through basic like I tried to quit on the first day because I was really struggling with obviously, the Academy is difficult and grieving at the same time. So, one of the things that I did to ensure that I would stay was I started seeing a therapist up on the hill. I saw chaplains all the time. I continued that through most of my freshman year, well into covid when I got sent home in 2020 because I knew that there was no way I could be able to lead in the classroom, in uniform, be there for my friends if I couldn't help myself first. So that is the first big step. It is takes a lot of courage and strength to receive help, and I think that is something, a stigma,that we're all having to overcome and change the narrative surrounding the conversation of mental health, you are strong if you get help, and everyone around you is here to help you, and I think as a friend, also being inviting, being conscious of the types of conversations about when other people that you don't know are having to receive help. Because there were definitely times that people had said about me like, “Oh, Madison's just trying to get out of training,” or, you know, you hear things like that. And so I knew that when I became a sophomore, that whoever I was leading, the one freshman that I was going to be in charge of, I could always be a safe space for them and ensuring that anytime, if they needed to go see chaplain, no questions asked, I would be there to walk them to and from the chaplain, whatever anybody needed, because I understand that that sort of help can be life-saving, and we have to be able to invite those sorts of conversations in and allow people to receive the help that they need. And I think that kind of follows throughout the entire culture of your squadron or Air Force wide, and it starts with one person, one leader, being inviting and accepting of those that need help.   Naviere Walkewicz  17:02 That's so powerful, and I'm so glad that you shared that, because I do think sometimes people might think asking for help is weak, or if I just hide it, then no one knows. But I think you're right. Courage is asking for help and receiving it, and that one person like you said you champion someone else, they will do that. So, you just created this train effect of, you know, support, and I think that's really powerful. So, while you're a cadet, you know, you had amazing experiences, I'm sure. Let's talk about what leadership roles you had as a cadet, aside from being, I think, what do they call them now? So, when you are a three-degree and you have a four-degree, you're called like a coach. Okay, so could you talk about that role a little bit? So that's fairly newer…   2nd Lt. Madison Marsh '23  17:45 Yes, it's pretty interesting. So, you go from being a freshman, which is very much so learning how to follow others, into you are assigned a freshman as soon as you hit your sophomore year. So, you'll have a cadet that has just come out of basic, and they're assigned to you, and that might be, I mean, that's many different things, like you're doing the obvious things like feedback with them, that's required. But it goes beyond that, if you make it so, because everything is a leadership opportunity Academy, if you pour into it so that could be, you know, meetings with them to check up, like, “Hey, how's school going?” Or if they're falling behind in school, like, “Let's create a plan to ensure that you pass your classes,” or, “Let's create a plan to ensure that you are going above and beyond and excelling in these areas.” You have those sorts of conversations with them, and I believe you are their protector against the upperclassmen, because obviously the freshmen, like the upperclassmen, duties are to be hard on them so that they become a better person at the end of their year. But as a sophomore, I had always taken as this is my person to protect and lead, because you're the closest first line supervisor to them. So that's how I took the position of if they needed help, if they had gotten in trouble, having those conversations with them to get them back on track, or maybe they're having some difficulty working with some upperclassmen to try to talk that through with them, to make sure our squadron was still meshing with one another. So that is the intention of the role. And you can go as little as just feedback with them, or you can do a lot. And then you also switch at the second semester, so you'll have a new freshman to lead on the back half of the year. Okay, it depends on the squadrons. Sometimes they strategically place you together, like, let's say a freshman said during basic, “I really struggle with academics,” and they knew that academics was my strong suit. We might get linked together so that they have someone that is guiding them, because they know they're going to struggle with that as soon as the school year starts. So, linking up people's weaknesses to their strengths is a big part of it.       Naviere Walkewicz  19:44 That makes sense. I'm glad you shared that, because I think, you know, not all of us are familiar with that, that kind of program now, and I think the term coach is really appropriate. You know, that actually makes sense, and it helps, actually, I think, inform how you can really, like you said, and embrace that role. And what I think is also a theme with you, Lieutenant Marsh, is, you know, you don't do anything just to do it. And you know you do it because you put your whole self into it. And so, while you're a cadet, maybe talk about what were some of the other things that you experienced from a leadership perspective, from peer leadership, because you know, you had the opportunity to help those you said, as you know, four-degree under you. But what about peers and up? Did you see any leadership you experienced in those realms?   2nd Lt. Madison Marsh '23  20:29 Gosh, there are so many leadership stories that I could touch on. I think one that really stands out in my mind was General Clark, who was our superintendent my time at the Academy. And I remember my sophomore year was covid gear, so we had right before recognition, or the night of recognition. My freshman year, we got sent home. I didn't return until the Fall semester. For my sophomore year, that semester was very tough because we were basically locked down. You couldn't leave. You couldn't really go see your family, and that sort of, you know, being contained in those black gates actually, literally, this time was very hard. And I remember there was a time period for at least five weeks when we were kind of stuck in your dorm, and it sucked, to say the least, but the thing that General Clark did was he was not going to ask us to do something as a leader that he was not willing to do himself. So instead of staying home with his family or going out, he came on base almost every night. He was bringing us food from Chick Fil A, Crumbl Cookie, anything that you could think of. He was doing all the cadet things like the, oh my gosh, what's it called when you pour the water?   Naviere Walkewicz  21:38 Oh my gosh, the carrier land, carrier landing, carrier landings, with cadets.   2nd Lt. Madison Marsh '23  21:45 That was fantastic. I mean, awesome. And then there was a night, I believe, that he set up a cot in a spare room and stayed over with the cadets. And it's leadership like that that had shown me, don't ask your people to do something that you are not willing to do. There's going to be times that are extremely tough, and I'm excited to be in an opportunity where I get to lead more people after this year's Miss America, and after I finish up my degree is it situations like that where you can make such an impact and show that as a leader, you are not better than the people that you are leading. You are right there, going with it, alongside them. And General Clark showed that to us from day one, and he is a leader I'm always going to remember and look up to and that was just one of the many stories that he showed that to us.   Naviere Walkewicz  22:25 And it sounds like that, leading by example is something that you also carry with you in your style and how you want to be seen as a leader. Yes, yes. I think that's wonderful. Let's talk a little bit about you know, you said that you've always enjoyed academics and stem so at the Academy, I understand there's an Academic Success Center. Can you talk a little bit about that? Because that's not something I'm as familiar with.   2nd Lt. Madison Marsh '23  22:48 So, under the Academic Success Center, there are, I believe, two portions of it. So, there's the Quantitative Reasoning Center and the Public Speaking Lab. And I used those all the time, sometimes daily for all four years at the Academy. So, the Quantitative Reasoning Center, they also have a writing lab underneath that, which I also used. So, they will help you with anything from uh, calc one problems to maybe engineering, or maybe you need help writing an essay, or you're not understanding your English class, or you need to help, like prep for public speaking, whatever it might be. So, I went down there all the time because my biggest thing is asking for help early and often. These are free resources that they provide.   Naviere Walkewicz  23:32 Does every cadet from E.I., from extra instruction? Or is it part of is extra instruction with your… it's kind of the same?   2nd Lt. Madison Marsh '23  23:37 Okay, so E.I. is with your instructor. Specifically, this is like a place down underneath the comms tower, where it's an entire wing, where people just sit there all day, and you go online and you make an appointment with them for 30 minutes, and they will be assigned to you to go through your essay with you. Or, “I really cannot get this problem on my assignment. Can you help me with it?” So, if your teacher isn't available, you can go there. It is incredible, because if you are falling behind, there's no reason you can't go to the Academic Success Center, because they have people that stay, I think, until like, eight o'clock at night. And they start, I want to, I mean, I it depends on the people, but I know that some of them started like earlier in the school day, like you could go at noon. So, let's say you have an off period, and you're an IC so you can't go after school. You could go during the day if you have time, or even later that night. So, there's so many opportunities to receive help, and I knew that if I was gonna' go be a Truman Scholar or try to go to grad school, I needed to go 110% in all of my classes, and I couldn't do by myself. I'm not some genius guru who just understood everything. That was not how I was as a student, I did well because I got help from people that knew a lot more than me, and I tried to learn from them, and especially in English classes and history, writing is not my most favorite thing. Yeah, so I had people that did love writing that helped me, and then I think the public speaking lab is also one that is an underutilized resource for cadets. I hear a lot of people that go and use the QRC, but never the Public Speaking Lab. So I used the PSL for anything from pageant prep, whether they were watching my talent or we were going through 100 different political questions and they were grilling me on them, or I'm preparing for a scholarship interview, and how are they going to grill me on my entire life, or my stances on particular things, or my plans, anything that you could think of. They're there for a speech for your class or a presentation for a class. If you struggle with being in front of an audience, they are there to help you, and it's free. And I can tell you right now, I cannot think of many other colleges that have resources like we do, and I remember my dad telling me as a freshman, when I had told him about the Academic Success Center, he was like, “You better be going there every single day, because I can guarantee your older siblings did not have that type of opportunity,” because we have such a small environment compared to some of these big schools across the US. You get really close with your teachers, and you have the opportunity to get really close to all the people at the Academic Success Center. And that is how you go far at the Academy, and you do well. So every Cadet needs to visit there, at least at one point, because I know everyone is not strong in every area.   Naviere Walkewicz  26:21 Well, guess what I'm going to be telling my sons about, if you haven't, and it's for all classes. All classes, excellent. And I can assure all of our listeners, as you can also hear and see yourself, that the PSL, the public speaking lab, has been phenomenal for you.   2nd Lt. Madison Marsh '23  26:37 I love it because I think public speaking is such an important part of being an officer, being able to get up and be in a crowd briefing to very important people, those skills that you learn as a cadet are going to carry with you for the rest of your career. So, start on them early and often, so you're not freaked out the first time you're on active duty and someone very important walks in the room and you're having to talk to them.   Naviere Walkewicz  26:59 Exactly, exactly the low threat.   2nd Lt. Madison Marsh '23  27:00 Get over with the low threat stuff. Now, in the safe spaces, we always talk about safe spaces.   Naviere Walkewicz  27:02 I love that. So, let's talk about life after the Academy. Well before we go there, when you were getting your career drops and all of that, what was, what were you hoping for? We shifted from astronauts, so where did, where did you go?   2nd Lt. Madison Marsh '23  27:19 So, I actually ended up being awarded pilot as my AFSE. But one of the things that I had kind of recognized my senior year was that I was not passionate about going the astronaut route anymore, which meant I didn't want to go to grad school for physics, and I really wanted to focus more on policy and pancreatic cancer, which is why I ended up at the Harvard Kennedy School. So, I made the decision over this last year to not go to pilot training anymore, because I've recognized this entire job as Miss America, there are so many opportunities and jobs in the Air Force to do your job well. And I knew that I was not 100% passionate about the pilot career path anymore, but I could be 100% passionate about something else in the Air Force, which is going to make me do so much better at that job for the people around me. So, I'm changing my job now, and I'm very excited about it. My fiancé is still going to UPT right now, and I love getting to support him and watching that, and now moving into this new phase of my life where I'm going to get to experience another job in the Air Force.   Naviere Walkewicz  28:19 So, we have listeners that, you know, find themselves in a path, and they feel, “I might, be stuck here.” Now, talk a little bit about making that decision, and how can you encourage others? I think the key word you used is, “I can do more because I'm passionate about something,” but maybe talk our listeners through how you felt this was the right decision, and at that time.   2nd Lt. Madison Marsh '23  28:41 I did not come to it overnight, that is for sure. I think it took me probably two and a half years to really, finally be comfortable with it. And I think a thing that I struggled with was fear of people judging me because I was stepping away from this big dream of becoming an astronaut, which I can tell everyone right now, nobody cared whenever I stopped doing that, and that was something I was so fearful of. I thought everyone was going to be like, “Oh, she's not doing this big thing anymore. She's not going to do anything.” And that is not what happened when I started. I remember being in scholarship interviews, and one of the things that I'd received in feedback was it sounds like you're just being robotic, talking about this plan to becoming an astronaut, but when I hear you talk about pancreatic cancer, you light up, and those are the best points in your interview. And so, then that made me think. I was like, “Oh, okay, that's kind of odd that they say that I probably should think about that more,” because I thought I was really passionate about this, and my fiancé had kind of sat me down and was like, “We should, like, discuss this. Like, if you're really having second thoughts about it, because you shouldn't be forcing yourself into a career path to make other people happy.” And I remember my dad had called me after this conversation that kind of started, and he was like, “Listen, just because you told your mom you wanted to go astronaut doesn't mean that you need to do it to, like, fulfill the thing that you told her you were going to do.” He's like, “Your mom and everyone else does not care what career you end up in. All they care about is that you're doing something that makes you happy.” And through the loss of my mom, I had recognized every life is very short. Do not waste it on things you don't care about. Do not waste it on things you're not passionate about, because you're not going to do good at them. Like that's just not that's just not how you work. That's not how I work. I know that if I put 100% into something I'm passionate about, the outcome and the impact that I'm gonna' have is going to be far greater than forcing myself into this idea of who other people want me to be, and that's why I ultimately made that change. And there were a lot of tears at first. There was a lot of second guessing, and I don't think it was really until this January, after I had started, I started interviewing a lot of people on different career paths, like I had spoken to a lot of pilots and asking them what their life was like. And it wasn't until I had interviewed them and also people that are in this profession that I thought I could be really passionate about. That's what really put it over the edge. And I felt very comfortable then with my decision of I am okay, walking away from this old dream because it's no longer my current one, and that's okay. Everyone grows up, everything changes, and that's life, and accept that. And I think because I went 110% on this astronaut path, it opened up the doors to do anything else afterwards. Just because I went down this path for eight years does not mean that I was stuck in it. Since I had worked so hard, I had opened up every single opportunity, like going to Harvard, that has now changed the trajectory of my career and my life.   Naviere Walkewicz  31:38 So, Lieutenant Marsh, I have to just say, even sitting here in the room, I'm inspired. I know our listeners are feeling this as well. Talk about how going to Harvard, Kennedy School. What is your vision for how this will impact and where it will take your foundation, or what does this look like to you after?   2nd Lt. Madison Marsh '23  31:56 I think a really cool thing about the fact that the Academy will send you right to grad school afterwards, is because you have so many opportunities to learn from people that are not military and a very different leadership orientation than we might have ever experienced at USAFA or in just the general Air Force. And that's been really cool. I mean, going to Harvard, we are a very small minority of military members that are there, and I'm getting to meet people from all across the globe. Over 60% of our program are international students, really, which is fascinating. Yeah, I'm getting to learn so much about their countries, their government, which I think is extremely applicable to the way that we work in the Air Force, because we are going to be having to work with a lot of these countries, and now I'm getting a deeper understanding of their perspective, their perspective on leadership, so I think that'll be really cool to see how it's going to impact my Air Force career. But my favorite part of it is the fact that it's allowed me to be really flexible, and what I focus on in public policy, my biggest thing has been pancreatic cancer. So how can I take my experience with the loss of my mom and my understanding of medicine and science now put into policy to ensure patients are receiving the best care so they are not going through what my mom went through? And another cool experience that this reminds me of is how I was talking about astronaut to now pancreatic cancer, because I went down physics instead of having to do a conventional physics project my senior year, because I went so hard in that major I was then able to do an artificial intelligence research on pancreatic cancer, wow, and apply like medical scans X-rays to the way that we detect pancreatic cancer in patients. So, it's little things like that that have opened up doors, and now I've gotten to take that research from the Academy, put that into what I'm studying at Harvard. So just so many different ways that you can apply, reapply and change across your life. So that's I'll be excited to see where I get to use it, I think, way down the road, whether I'm in the Air Force or not being able to serve my community with that degree in the leadership that I'm getting to learn there.   Naviere Walkewicz  34:04 I can't wait to see what you have, I mean, just in the short amount of time, the impact and drive that you have. I mean, it's kind of it blows us away. So, it's really impressive. I wanted to go back to something you mentioned about the different perspectives from the other you know, cultures and countries, especially on leadership. Was there anything particular that you took away or that surprised you, or that kind of resonated with you from some of the people you've met?   2nd Lt. Madison Marsh '23  34:29 Gosh, there are just so many times, I think one of the things that I love doing was just, I love picking people's brains. Yes, so we had, like, a house about 30 minutes away from Harvard, and what I would do, or try to do, at least once a month, is we'd have everyone bring their food from their country, and we'd have a huge spread, and everyone would just sit down and talk about their lives. And there was this one girl named Paulina that I was good friends with, and she was from Israel, and so getting to hear her perspective, because they have a very different way of military service, because it is, I think it's required for them after they turn 18. And her perspective on why that is important to their country, and comparing it now to how the US is most like, is volunteer based, and the differences in that. And so, I think that was really cool to hear from her, because it's very different than what we do here. And I mean, there are just so many students. One of them, he was a student that had lived in China almost his whole life. I think he left when he was 14 or 16 for school or work, ended up living in Canada for a long time, and now was back in the US and hearing his entire family's take on covid or military operations or their actual thoughts on America was very different, because it is not what you get to hear every day in mainstream media, because it's someone that actually lived there. So, it was every moment that you get to have there is very fascinating if you're asking the right questions and talking to the right people…   Naviere Walkewicz  35:57 Especially if you're open to listening.  I have to ask, what did you bring for your food dish?   2nd Lt. Madison Marsh '23  36:01 I made a, what was it, green chili chicken soup.   Naviere Walkewicz  36:08 Of that sounds yummy.   2nd Lt. Madison Marsh '23  36:09 Yes. I like a little spicy soup. But it was nice. I was very full that night. I think I have a whole spread of like a table that was 10 feet long, just covered in everyone.   Naviere Walkewicz  36:19 Oh, my goodness. Well, I'm a foodie myself, so I can appreciate that, and I would have probably partaken a little bit of everything too. So, we'd like to know, what do you your time is so busy? What do you do to what I would call like, manage your health, your balance in life? What does that look like for you?   2nd Lt. Madison Marsh '23  36:36 I was really terrible at it my freshman year at the Academy, and so I had to learn very fast to make sure I was on the right track. So, freshman year, I was struggling with grief. Obviously, the Academy is very busy, and I gave zero time back to myself ever. It was, I would get up at 6am and I was studying until midnight, and that's what I did every day. I never took Saturdays or Sundays off. I'd just go, go, go. And I think that took a very big toll on my mental health, my social life. And it wasn't until my fiancé Walker was like, “You are going to leave this place and throw up your hat and you're going to have no memories outside of your textbooks.” And I was like, “That is a terrifying thought, because you're totally right. You're 100% right. I have not poured into any of the other outside opportunities.”, and so I started doing very small things, like reading 10 pages of a book every night. That is what I forced myself to start doing sophomore year that slowly grew into, and not a textbook, not a textbook, a fun book that slowly started growing into going to the gym, making sure I have a full Saturday off to be with my friends and family, and so now that I'm having this very busy schedule, I do the same thing. I carry this very large planner around in my bag that goes down to 30 minutes, and I'm planning out every single part of my day. So, if I need to plan when I'm calling my family that goes on there, if I'm planning times to go to the gym that's on there, reading a book, anything that you could think of. That is how I stay replenished mentally. Because I know if I can't be giving that time back to myself, I can't go out and meet people and travel all the time, because everyone has their limits, and I've really had to figure out where mine are over the past couple of years and be very strict with myself to ensure that I don't pass them.   Naviere Walkewicz  38:20 I love that because you can't pour from an empty cup. What's the most recent fun thing you've read?   2nd Lt. Madison Marsh '23  38:28 Okay, it's this book called Quitting a Life Strategy, and it is about basically the entire social dynamic on why we look down upon people that quit things, and why that is wrong, and it just meant a lot to me after changing career paths and recognizing that quitting is not a bad word, it's not a negative word. It is a redirection in your life, and it applies to relationships, friendships, jobs, volunteer opportunities, whatever it might be. And it was all of these anecdotes about people that had hated their job and had decided to make a change and are now doing something drastically different and are exponentially more happy, and it just made me feel very certain about the path that I was on, and also more empathetic to people outside of never judging people because they're leaving a certain situation of thinking, the only person that really knows what they're going through is them. And at the end of the day, someone else's life and their decisions don't impact you, so support them. There's no reason to be negative revolving around someone else's life or your own. Just allow people to live life, do their own things. And that is exactly what that book exemplified for me.   Naviere Walkewicz  39:40 I love that. In fact, you make me want to read that.   2nd Lt. Madison Marsh '23  39:43 It's great title again, Quitting a Life Strategy.   Naviere Walkewicz  39:46 I love that. Thank you for sharing that. Yeah, so Lieutenant Marsh, one of the things that our listeners love to know, and you obviously have many talents, because you have competed in in them as well for Miss America, but what's something hidden? Or maybe something special about you that you'd be willing to share with some of our listeners?   2nd Lt. Madison Marsh '23  40:07 Oh geez. I don't know if I have, like, a hidden talent, per se. Okay, I will, okay, this is funny. Going back to the band thing earlier, okay, every time I'm home on holiday, I break out my clarinet and I try to relearn the music and play, and it really irritates my entire family, because I'm not good anymore. I'm not good anymore at all, and they're all like someone take that away from her right now. And this last time I tried playing flute for a little bit, I did not catch on to it as easily as clarinet, and I was home for Christmas, or maybe it was some other time with my fiancé and me, and he had the flu, and I had the clarinet, we were walking around the house playing it together, and they were like, “We have to deal with two of them now, instead of just one.”   Naviere Walkewicz  40:48 I love so, that's fantastic. Thank you for sharing this. And I think what's so great, some of the things that you've shared throughout this, well, one, they've been golden. I mean, just amazing leadership lessons. But I think one of the things that has been really special is you talk about your fiancé and that support you've had with him. Maybe just share with our listeners the importance of having kind of a partner or a support network. What did that what does that look like for you? You seem like you lean on him. Does he lean on you? Or is it able to be shared?   2nd Lt. Madison Marsh '23  41:18 Yes, he is. I mean, I would not be able to do this year's Miss America, or really anything without his support, because if you can imagine, I'm traveling all the time, he's going through UPT and is extremely busy. And it's because of our dedication to each other that we're able to come back at the end of each day, calling each other, making life plans, being honest about how we're feeling. And I think that honesty and the ability to lean on each other makes it so much easier to get through everything. And I remember like I talked about earlier my freshman year, I tried to leave multiple times. I tried to leave on the first day basic, my dad told me, “You can quit, but you can't come home to our house.” So I stayed. I wanted to leave after basic, and I decided to stick it out my freshman year. And it wasn't until that Spring semester freshman year, where I had found people like walker or Dr. Anderson or different professors and mentors that I had had that made me want to stay and like I said earlier, you don't go anywhere alone, or at least, you don't go far by yourself. And so, leaning on people, whether it is your partner or a loved one, that is how you're going to succeed in life, and I've had to learn heavily on how can I be there for these people when I'm at 100% because there are definitely days when I'm at home, maybe I'm not traveling as much for Miss America in the Air Force. And Walker had just the worst, most difficult, long week, like he's having this week, lots of tests, lots of Sims, and I get to be there for him, to support him at the end of it. And it's that give and take and understanding that, above all else, we are number one to each other, and that's something that we talk about it a lot, especially when it comes to career planning. For me, our number one is ensuring that we get to be together. Everything else is secondary, because I know I can't go 100% in my job if I don't have my partner there with me, and he feels the same, and so trying to plan life out in a way that always puts us as the priority no matter what. So, he's been very special. And I think you can also get that outside of a partnership, whether that is someone that is your mentor or a family member or a friend, right?   Naviere Walkewicz  43:20 I think that was a key kind of takeaway that you shared there about first making sure you know what your priorities are, and then staying true to them. So, Lieutenant Marsh, there's two more things we have in this one, and I'll give you a little precursor: I'm going to ask you if there's anything that we didn't talk about there. I didn't ask you that you want to make sure that our listeners have a chance to hear and then the second thing is, we're gonna' have kind of those, those few key takeaways that you really want them to kind of indulge in from your perspective. So maybe with the first one, is there anything I didn't ask you that you wanted to chat about today?   2nd Lt. Madison Marsh '23  43:54 I feel like this is gonna' go into the leadership piece of it. And I just think it is so important to be an empathetic leader, kind of tying back into the mental health I had heard a story once about someone who had someone underneath them that they were leading, and they kept saying that, “Oh, this person's getting in trouble. They're not showing up to meetings. They just don't care. They are just a bad Airman.” When their supervisor had actually sat down and spoken to them, they had actually admitted that they were struggling a lot with depression and needed help, and it takes one person to sit down and have that very like quick conversation of just asking how people are every day and being genuine about it that could change someone's life, and ensuring that you know there are probably going to be people that you're going to lead, that are going to mess up, but be there for them, lead them, be empathetic and make sure that your people are okay. That is your duty as a leader, and that is something from that story I had learned, and now I have to take through the rest of my career to be cognizant of what my people are going through. Maybe they're struggling something with their family. Maybe they're struggling. With something personally, maybe like me, they need help figuring out their rest of their life and their career, and it's just things like that where you can make such an impact on people if you make the time to have those conversations with them, and that is being an empathetic leader, above all else, can really help your people go far, because if you're not focusing on them, they're not going to feel attached to the work that you all do together. But if you can be unified and stick up for one another, you can do so, so much more.   Naviere Walkewicz  45:29 Oh man, it's always about the people, right? It's always and I think what you said was really key, and that was asking the question, versus either, you know, just kind of going in and directing, but being really open to listen so well. So now, Lieutenant Marsh, because I know everyone is hanging on to hear what you might leave them with, what really is, what guides you in leadership, and what are the few things that you'd like our listeners to kind of take away?   2nd Lt. Madison Marsh '23  46:15 I would say, going back to earlier, being an empathetic leader, being a leader who goes by example. So don't ask your people to do something that you are not willing to do yourself. And I think those are the two biggest things that I look for. And I've gained at the Academy and now post Academy life, because I'm always looking for things in leadership that I want to take away and things that I don't. And those are the two biggest things that I want to carry in my little toolbox for the rest of my career. And another important personal piece, whether it applies to your job, personal life, family life, whatever it might be, is always doing something that you love. Your life is too short to live it for someone else or to do things that you are not passionate about. If you are passionate, you're going to go so much further and you're going to be happy. That is the only thing that you can really take away from life, is the happiness that one you provided yourself and you can give to other people, and you can only do that if you're doing work that is worthwhile to you. So keeping that in mind, no matter the strife that you might go through or potential changes that you're going to go through in your career and your life, is holding that near and dear to your heart.   Naviere Walkewicz  47:21 So, this has been an absolute pleasure to just spend this time with you. Lieutenant Marsh, I have to ask, as a graduate and the graduate community, you know, I've enjoyed listening to your story, what can we do to continue to support you?   2nd Lt. Madison Marsh '23  47:34 I think the biggest thing that all AOG can do and long blue line is really just being there for the cadets, because it is conversations like this, opportunities to talk on a podcast like this that maybe cadets can listen to, or being mentors for them. That's what helps them get through it, and that's how we create great leaders, is by pouring back into our community where we came from. I know we talked about that earlier off camera. That's the biggest thing for me, looking at the people that gave back to me, and now that I'm a grad, just loving to be a part of this, to give back to the people that are now coming up and are going to be following behind us.   Naviere Walkewicz  48:07 Thank you for being such an outstanding I think, leader, influencer, and we can't wait to share in this journey with you.   2nd Lt. Madison Marsh '23  Thank you.   Naviere Walkewicz  Thanks for your time.   KEYWORDS People, cadet, Academy, leadership, pancreatic cancer, freshman, Academic Success Center, astronaut, family, sharing, empathy, empathetic, experience, lieutenant, cool, listeners, Marsh, passionate, learn           The Long Blue Line Podcast Network is presented by the U.S. Air Force Academy Association and Foundation      

“Having served in the military, having that leadership experience, having gone to a service academy, I think that we can optimize things really well. We're relatively decent with technology. And so rather than having to invent a business, our skill sets work pretty well with – let's buy a Mom and Pop business and bring it into this century. Modernize things and make it work more efficiently.”  –Carl Dieckmann Carl Dieckmann is a commercial real estate broker at Emily Dieckmann Real Estate Team in Lago Vista, Texas, a firm he co-owns and runs with his wife Emily, which is one of the top producing brokerages in the Austin area. As a real estate investor, Carl has over a decade of experience flipping properties, managing buy-and-hold properties, and purchasing tax foreclosures. A serial entrepreneur, in 2020 Carl purchased Snowblaze Ski Shop in Angel Fire, New Mexico. In doing so, he acquired one of the most prime commercial property locations in Angel Fire along with additional land that's earmarked for future development.  In 2021, Carl teamed up with retired military veteran Ismael Reyna to start CJ Site Works, a tree clearing and dirt work business servicing Northwest Austin.  Carl also leads a team of five in a syndication to develop a 120-pad RV park in New Braunfels, Texas.  In addition to running his businesses, Carl is a part-time military reservist in the 701st COS supporting the Korean Theater. In this episode, we discuss: How a risky move from Las Vegas, Nevada to be closer to family near Austin, Texas opened up a wave of new opportunities for self-employment and entrepreneurship. How Carl and his wife Emily turned a real estate business that made only $5,000 its first year into one of the top producing brokerages in the Austin, Texas area. Opening up and running a ski shop on the fly, right before ski season opens, and coercing your kids into cleaning skis when they're returned. Why RV parks can be a good investment and the kinds of challenges you can face setting them up. Getting expert help to fill in for your own skill gaps. Carl Dieckmann's journey from Air Force pilot to multi-faceted entrepreneur highlights how seemingly simple “Mom and Pop” type local businesses can turn into big opportunities while diversifying your business interests. After a risky move from Las Vegas to the Austin area, Carl and his wife Emily transformed a struggling real estate brokerage into one of the top-producing firms in the area. Carl's entrepreneurial spirit led him to expand beyond real estate, acquiring Snowblaze Ski Shop in New Mexico and co-founding CJ Site Works, a land clearing business, with a fellow vet. His latest venture involves developing a 120-pad RV park, demonstrating his ability to identify new business trends. Carl's story illustrates how embracing change, leveraging local opportunities, and filling skill gaps with expert help can lead to success in different niches. His experiences remind us that entrepreneurial growth often comes from being adaptable, taking calculated risks, and continuously exploring new business avenues while maintaining a strong foundation in core competencies. Connect with Carl Dieckmann: LinkedIn Team Dieckmann Commercial Snowblaze Ski Shop CJ Site Works carldieckmann@kw.com If you found this episode valuable, please share it with a friend or colleague. If you are a Service Academy graduate and want to take your business to the next level, you can join our supportive community and get started today. Subscribe and help out the show: Subscribe on Apple Podcasts & Spotify Leave us a 5-star review! Special thanks to Carl for joining me this week. Until next time! -Scott Mackes, USNA '01

Brig. Gen. Gavin Marks '96 discusses the absolute importance of standards and integrity in leadership, and how a new, more rigorous approach at the Academy will build that in to cadets making them Day-1 leaders. SUMMARY Brigadier General Gavin P. Marks, Commandant of the Air Force Academy, shares his journey from being a young man in Atlanta, Georgia to becoming a pilot and eventually serving as the Commandant. He discusses his experiences at the Air Force Academy, including basic cadet training and the challenges he faced. General Marks emphasizes the importance of perseverance, leaning on support networks, and maintaining high standards in leadership. He also reflects on the impact of the Academy on his personal and professional development. General Gavin Marks reflects on his personal journey and the impact of his wife on his military career. He discusses the importance of being adaptable and humble as a leader and the unique responsibilities of command. He shares his decision to return to the Air Force Academy and the changes he is implementing to better prepare cadets for the challenges of great power competition. General Marks emphasizes the love and passion that the leaders at the Academy have for developing future officers and encourages listeners to continue dreaming big.   OUR FAVORITE QUOTES "How you do anything is how you do everything." "There's always somebody better." "I want to make sure that they feel like they got their money's worth from a military development perspective or military training perspective."  "The leaders at the Air Force Academy, from top to bottom, love deeply, deeply love the institution, and are incredibly passionate about the development of these young men and women into officers in the Air Force and the Space Force." "Continue to dream big. Don't let anyone dissuade you from goals that you have. And as it relates specifically to the Air Force Academy, it is absolutely worth it."   SHARE THIS EPISODE LINKEDIN  |  FACEBOOK   CHAPTERS 00:00:  Introduction and Background 01:53:  Returning to the Air Force Academy 02:52:  Young Gavin Marks: Childhood and Calling to Serve 07:04:  Challenges and Growth in Basic Cadet Training 08:29:  Lessons in Leadership and Perseverance 11:45:  Choosing the Air Force Academy and Pilot Training 15:06:  Reflections on the Academy's Impact 20:52:  Leadership Experiences as a Cadet 23:43:  Lessons in Leadership and Perception 27:55:  Successes and Career Progression 32:35:  Meeting His Wife and Reflecting on Tinker Air Force Base 37:25:  Personal Journey and the Impact of Relationships 57:54:  Changes in the Life of a Cadet 01:05:48:  Challenges and Partnerships 01:09:39:  Rigor and Expectations 01:11:09:  Love and Passion for Developing Future Officers 01:12:34:  The Value and Worth of Attending the Air Force Academy   TAKEAWAYS The importance of perseverance, resilience, and grit in overcoming challenges, especially during difficult experiences like the Air Force Academy. The value of having a strong support network, including family and friends, to help navigate challenging times. The significance of leadership roles and experiences during the Air Force Academy in shaping one's development and future success. The Air Force Academy's focus on evolving its training and development methods to better prepare cadets for the challenges of great power competition. The deep passion and commitment of the Air Force Academy's leadership in developing leaders of character who are ready to serve their country.   ABOUT GEN. MARKS BRIG. GEN. MARKS' BIO Brigadier General Gavin P. Marks is the Commandant of Cadets, U.S. Air Force Academy, Colorado Springs, Colorado. He commands the 4,300-member Cadet Wing and more than 200 Air Force and civilian personnel. He guides military, leadership, character development, Basic Cadet Training and Expeditionary Skills Training for the Air Force Cadet Wing in addition to providing facilities and logistical support.  Brig. Gen. Marks earned his commission from the U.S. Air Force Academy in 1996 and his pilot wings from Specialized Undergraduate Pilot Training at Columbus Air Force Base, Mississippi, in 1998. Brig. Gen. Marks has served as a T-1A instructor pilot (at both the undergraduate and graduate training levels) and flight examiner, an E-3B/C instructor pilot and flight examiner, an Air Force Intern, a staff officer on multiple joint staffs, and has commanded at the squadron and wing levels.  Prior to his current assignment, he served as the Director, Electromagnetic Spectrum Superiority, Headquarters U.S. Air Force, Washington, D.C.   Brig. Gen. Marks is a command pilot with more than 3,400 flying hours in the T-3, T-37, T-1A, E-3B/C/G, RC-135S/U/V, TC-135W, OC-135B, and WC-135C aircraft.   - Copy credit:  AF.MIL   CONNECT WITH GEN. MARKS INSTAGRAM: @‌USAFACOMMANDANT     ABOUT LONG BLUE LEADERSHIP Long Blue Leadership drops every two weeks on Tuesdays and is available on Apple Podcasts, TuneIn + Alexa, Spotify and all your favorite podcast platforms. Search @AirForceGrads on your favorite social channels for Long Blue Leadership news and updates!          FULL TRANSCRIPT OUR SPEAKERS Guest:  Brig. Gen. Gavin P. Marks '96  |  Host:  Naviere Walkewicz '99   Naviere Walkewicz 00:01 My guest today is Brig. Gen. Gavin P. Marks, USAFA Class of '96, and currently serving as the commandant of the Air Force Academy. This is his third command position since becoming a member of the Air Force. Gen. Marks was drawn to service as a young man in Atlanta, Georgia, and joined the Junior ROTC program in high school before coming to the Academy in 1992. After he graduated, he became a pilot and flew for 26 years, in addition to continuing his personal and professional development. In 2000, Gen. Marks graduated with distinction from Squadron Officer School at Maxwell Air Force Base in Alabama. In 2015, he again graduated with distinction from the National War College at Fort McNair in Washington, D.C. He has held command positions at the squadron and wing levels. His attachment to the Academy has remained strong, so much so that 20 years ago, he committed to returning and had been working his way back to USAFA when he was called to service, assuming his role as commandant in 2023. Gen. Marks, it is a pleasure. Welcome to Long Blue Leadership. Thank you for being here.   Brig. Gen. Marks 01:03 Thank you very much. It is an honor for me to be here. It really is.   Naviere Walkewicz 01:07 This is an exciting time for us, because especially for me, being a Class of 1999 — “Gold will shine” — I had to get that in there. We go back to Arnold Hall in Basic Cadet Training, when you were the commandant of cadets during Basic Cadet Training for us. So I remember you vividly as your taps from your shoes hit the floor in Arnold Hall. So this is truly a pleasure, sir, thank you.   Brig. Gen. Marks 01:29 It is absolutely surreal to be back, and especially during this period that we're in right now during Basic Cadet Training, and as I interact with basic cadets and the cadre, it's hard not to reminisce about that time. It's hard not to share stories as well. I'm careful that I don't inundate the cadets with my stories of when I was the Basic Cadet Training commander. But it's just it's absolutely wonderful to be back here. Yeah, really is.   Naviere Walkewicz 01:53 Well, we'll get to hear some of those, I think, you know, from your perspective, back then, and also, more recently, as we weave through this podcast. But really excited. And where we like to start is when we go back to young Gavin Marks. So Gen. Marks, tell us about what you were like as a child.   Brig. Gen. Marks 02:08 My mother would tell you that I was precocious, that I was inquisitive. I was very, very talkative as well. So I have an older brother, and we are the sons of two parents that have been married for 55 years, and that's important, because 55 years is a long time, and it taught me the value of being committed. It also taught me the value of what love really looks like, up close and personal as well. I'm from Atlanta, Georgia, as you mentioned, so I'm a product of the South. I am a product of public schools, Baptist churches and Southern upbringing. So, I love sweet tea. I love this disgusting candy called Sugar Babies. And just about anything that you think of with regard to the South, you could probably say that that's pretty accurate as it relates to me and my personality as well. I call everyone ma'am and sir, regardless of rank, just based on my upbringing as well. I really would tell you that I got a calling to serve in the military by virtue of JROTC. I followed my brother into JROTC. We went to different high schools, and he enjoyed it, but it just wasn't his calling. I got involved in it and knew immediately that it was something that I wanted to do. I love shining my shoes. I love shining the brass belt buckle that I had on my trousers. I love marching. I love drill. I did Color Guard. I did Drill Team. It was wonderful for me. It was, I think, the thing that was missing in my life in terms of knowing what my niche was going to be. And so, my professor at that time in that particular JROTC program, I think he saw something in me, and he was the first one to actually bring up a military service academy. Prior to that point, I hadn't heard of anything about West Point or Annapolis or the Air Force Academy at all. And so, I took a trip with my father and we went out to all three and I can't swim, and so Annapolis was pretty difficult for me to wrap my mind around. West Point was too gray. You know, this is a 17-year-old at the time, or a 16-year-old at the time thinking these things. It's like, “Wow, this was really gray and dreary.” No offense to West Point. And then I got to the Air Force Academy, and I remember stepping off the plane and again, coming from Atlanta, Georgia, to see the snow-capped mountains, to immediately be able to feel the difference in the air, I knew that this was the place that I wanted to be. And so, I told my dad right then, as we stepped off the plane, I said, “This is it.” And he said, “What do you know about this place? You haven't even gone here yet.” But I knew, and the rest, as they say, is history.   Naviere Walkewicz 04:48 Wow. So, neither your parents served and your brother was the first kind of introduction to Junior ROTC. What was that like growing up without having that, in Atlanta, not having that military, I guess, presence around you, and you said that's what you learned was missing. But what kind of got you to that point?   Brig. Gen. Marks 05:08 So, I would say, just to be clear, so dad did not have a career in the military, but my father and my uncle both were drafted in Vietnam, and so to that extent, what I would say is, while there wasn't discussions or a lot of military impact in my household, I think, more than anything else, just through watching television, et cetera, there was something about the discipline. There was something about the professionalism. There was something about how revered those that are in service to their nation were in this country that really drew me to the profession of arms. It was just something about the fact that this is a career field. This is a profession that is extremely highly regarded across all facets of life, and I wanted to be a part of it.   Naviere Walkewicz 06:03 So, as a young man in public school, did you find yourself drawn to things, like, I started to think about programs that were like discipline-based, like taekwondo or sports in that manner. Did you have some of those experiences as young man?   Brig. Gen. Marks 06:16 I played — I ran track, following after my brother. My brother thrived in track and field. I followed him, and I absolutely loathed it. I was not athletically inclined, and try as I might, you know, I work out and I try to stay in good shape, but I would not call myself necessarily an athlete of the highest order by any stretch. And so that absolutely was an albatross around my neck coming to the Air Force Academy, especially during basic training, especially during Jacks Valley.   Naviere Walkewicz 06:52 Well, let's talk about that a little bit. Was there a specific instance in Jacks Valley where — because I feel like now you might be able to run circles around some of us.   Brig. Gen. Marks 07:01 Well, I will tell you — so, what I remember a lot about Jacks Valley, I remember the power-line runs. And back then we had the M1 Garand, 11, 12 pounds and we carried it everywhere. And it was heavy. You know, 12 pounds doesn't seem like it's heavy, but it's heavy when you're at port arms, and you're running for miles and miles on end, and the altitude, obviously, is vastly different. Jacks Valley is very dusty. You know, “Jacks Hack” is a thing. And so, all of those things, in aggregate, really caused me a lot of trouble. And so, what I remember is thinking often “I'm not going to make this. This is not going to happen for me,” in terms of graduating out of basic training, because I am falling behind in my runs, et cetera, et cetera. But I made it. I made it.   Naviere Walkewicz 07:56 I love that. And I think for some of our listeners, the key thing, even just in that one was, you know, you didn't give up. You recognized you just had to keep working at it, and you got through it. And you're now serving as a commandant of cadets. So, I feel like there's definitely a story here that talks about you and your grit and your perseverance and everything throughout these years.   Brig. Gen. Marks 08:15 The thing that I took from the Air Force Academy experience probably more than anything else — and there are several things that I took from it — is that this is a an incredibly difficult journey that is made better if you think about it from the perspective of just taking one step at a time every single day. Just show up, just show up, just be present, and that's 80% of it. If you just keep showing up, you are going to be OK. And so that was my mentality: They were going to have to kick me out. I was not going to self-eliminate at all. And so, no matter how slowly I ran back, then they were going to have to kick me out and I was going to keep showing up. The other thing is, I would say this: I had tremendous teammates. Our squad, well, in Jacks Valley, our flight, which became our squadron — we were so close, even back then. And if one of us was falling behind, “Come on, Gavin, let's go. Pick it up.” And that really helped a lot, because you didn't want to let your teammates down.   Naviere Walkewicz 09:22 So, we got a little glimpse of Jacks. So I'm just gonna' dial it back just real quick, back to the point where you said to your dad, “This is it. This is where I'm going.” So, what was that journey like from Junior ROTC to getting into the Academy? Because I think a lot of people want to know what that looked like for you.   Brig. Gen. Marks 09:38 So, I knew that from probably my junior year in high school that I wanted to go into the Air Force or to into the military. I didn't know which branch to be perfectly clear. So I applied to all three service academies. I applied to The Citadel and I applied to VMI and to Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute. Those are all of the ones that I could think of at the time, and the visits helped a lot to crystallize in my mind what I wanted to do. But what really also helped was this fascination with flying. Originally, I wanted to be an astronaut, a dentist, a doctor, an actor, and so many different things when you're growing up, but the idea of flying was really at the forefront of my mind as well. I also knew I wanted to lead. And so, combining those two desires, it made sense to go to the Air Force Academy. And again, I couldn't swim. I tried as much as I possibly could to learn how to swim through the YMCA, et cetera. I'm a product of basic swimming at the Air Force Academy — twice. If I'm being completely candid with you and your listeners, if I could have swam at the time, it is likely that I would have gone to Annapolis, and it is likely that I would have been a Marine, because that is much more, at least in my thinking back then, in line with my personality. Because I am — I will just say the military pillar of the Air Force Academy was, as the young people would say, that's my jam, for sure.   Naviere Walkewicz 11:15 I can see that. While I appreciate that, I can see that. We're so glad that we were able to get you here at the Air Force Academy. So, let's talk about your time at the Academy. You wanted to be an astronaut. You turn the dials toward pilot. Let's talk about what that experience looked like.   Brig. Gen. Marks 11:30 So, the Academy was very, very challenging. What made it challenging primarily was the balance of so many requirements, and that's on purpose. It is rigorous on purpose because the profession of arms requires it, and the nation needs it, it deserves it. I wasn't prepared for it. High school — I wouldn't say high school came easy for me. I would say I did well in high school, and I did well in high school by virtue of cramming and by virtue of instincts. So, I came to the Air Force Academy not really knowing how to study. I didn't know how to prioritize tasks or manage tasks well at all. And the Academy humbled me tremendously.   Naviere Walkewicz Can you share a story about that?   Brig. Gen. Marks Oh, well, I would say this, and the dean, who I know has also been on the Long Blue Leadership podcast as well, she would cringe. So, I never got an F, I'm proud to say, but I certainly am on the team of Ds. I received a D in Aero, and, if I recall, Astro, civil engineering when we had that as a core as well. And that was an incredibly humbling experience for me, because prior to that point, I had never had anything in my career lower than a C in high school or anything like that. And so that kind of thing makes you think, “What am I doing wrong here?” And as you are engaged in that type of introspection, you're still having to get ready for the PFT, and you're still having to get ready for this chemistry test, and you're still having to shine your shoes and get ready for this knowledge test, et cetera, et cetera. And so it was just in my mind, based on my training to that point, not enough time in the day for the reflection that I needed in order to make some changes to my habit pattern. And you're just trying to survive, and you're just showing up every day, one step at a time. So that made it very difficult: the inability for me to study, to not know how to study, the prioritization of tasks. I loved the military piece, and I probably spent more time on that than I should have spent on other things.   My roommates would often comment on the fact that I would be shining my shoes for hours, and I would bypass the need to study until the last minute, until the test came. And that didn't work out very well for me. The other thing I would tell you is this: I wouldn't say that I got homesick, but it was a long way from home. It really was, and so going home really helped to fill my cup back up in terms of just being able to reacclimate with my family and those that were around me — extended family, church, friends, et cetera. It was a long way from home.   I developed a lot of great friends in my squadron. We were in the same squadron all four years, Way of Life committee, gospel choir at the time as well. And then this team of friends that I had on the Cadet Honor Guard as well. What an interesting year that was on the Cadet Honor Guard. But we became incredibly close, and they're still close to this day.   Naviere Walkewicz 14:47 So, I'd like to talk more about the Honor Guard, but before we get there, I think it's important for people to understand that when you find yourself in those tough situations in life and in experiences, how did you pull yourself out of that? You know, you obviously got through. So, something had to change. How did you maneuver that?   Brig. Gen. Marks 15:06 So, I will start by saying this: I talked to my parents a lot, and their support was incredibly helpful for me. They approached it from a different perspective. You know, I learned a lot of great things from both of my parents: hard work, my father's work ethic, my mother and unconditional love and what that truly means. And so, when I'm talking to my parents about the rigors of the Academy experience, my mom would say, “You know, baby you can just quit and come on home and go to Georgia Tech. It's right around the corner, and we'd love to have you, and you don't need this.” And my dad would say, “You better not quit. If you come home, it's for Christmas and you're going back.” And reflecting on both of those comments, my mother was basically saying, “No matter what, we're gonna' love you.” My dad was saying, “No matter what, you can do this, I know you can do it.” And the amalgamation of those emotions and those messages really helped me a lot. It let me know that no matter what, I have support, but I also have the confidence of my parents as well, that leaning on friends is — the friend groups that I talked about as well was really important. And then to a large extent, I would say this: The ability to dig deep inside and pull yourself up even when you are struggling, or even when you are faltering, to be able to show up the next day is really, really important, that grit, that resilience — the thing that we preach to our cadets about now we try to instill in them through the rigors of the Academy experience. It's really important. It's not only important at the Air Force Academy, it's important throughout life, because life obviously throws so many different curveballs your way, right?   Naviere Walkewicz 17:11 I appreciate that you shared that leaning into your support network, not only for their love and their confidence in you, but also it sounds like there was a bit of asking for help and what that was, and so I think that's important for people to hear too. While you are having to pull yourself up, there's no shame in asking for help along the way.   Brig. Gen. Marks 17:27 Not at all. And I would tell you, my mother has so many letters at home and letters that I don't even remember writing during my time at the Air Force Academy, where I was explaining to her different things that were going on that would bring a smile to my face now, because I would be shocked that I would have said these things to my mother or my father in terms of what was taking place and the help that I perhaps needed at the time.   Naviere Walkewicz 17:53 That's great perspective. So, you mentioned Honor Guard, and what an incredible year. I was not part of Honor Guard, but I did appreciate how they helped us stay militarily ready. What was that journey like for you?   Brig. Gen. Marks 18:08 Hard. It was very, very difficult. What I would say is this: So the Cadet Honor Guard attracted me because of the discipline that they had, that they have because of what they represented for the institution as well. These were the cadets that in every formation, carried our nation's flag. These were the cadets that were held up as the example of what a good uniform looked like and what military professionals should strive to look like and resemble and the precision with which they drilled was incredibly impressive to me. And so, when they had an opportunity to showcase what they were about to the fourth-class cadets at the time, so that we could show interest in different clubs, et cetera…   Naviere Walkewicz 19:02 Because you had to try out for honor guard. Is that correct, sir?   Brig. Gen. Marks 19:06 I'm trying to think if I would call it a try-out.   Naviere Walkewicz That's probably not the right word.   Brig. Gen. Marks I think it's probably one of the greatest examples that I can talk to about just showing up, which is to say, “Come one, come all, and there's going to be a lot of physical activity, a lot of running, a lot of drill work, et cetera, all meant to condition you and build your endurance for challenging times when you're in formation, and bad weather and things of that nature, because you know, when you're carrying the nation's flag, it's a no-fail mission, and you can't drop it. And it doesn't matter that it's 20 degrees and 50 knots of wind, you can't drop it.” And so how do I build that into you: the importance of what you're doing means to not only this institution, not only to the Cadet Wing, but to the nation as well? It was a grueling year. It was a hard year. And so I think we started probably with 70-ish fourth-class cadets, and our team ended up at the conclusion at about 16. And that was our team, and that was the team that we carried forth throughout the remainder of our time at the Air Force Academy. And again, I still stay in touch with them to this day. It was a fantastic group of people.   Naviere Walkewicz 20:35 That's incredible. So aside from Honor Guard and some of the time that you spent as a cadet, let's talk about your leadership as a cadet, because you've had multiple positions of leadership.   Brig. Gen. Marks 20:47 So, the two that resonate most with me right now, and that I gained a tremendous amount from — the summer leading into my two-degree year I was the Basic Cadet Training group training non-commissioned officer. That's a mouthful, and so the privilege of being able to, and I'm gonna' use air quotes, “greet” every new appointee as they arrived on the bus to the base of the ramp was given to me, and it was quite an honor. And so, I got to get on the bus and welcome every single basic cadet in the Class of 1998. I will never forget that. And then the next summer, I was the Basic Cadet Training commander, like you were talking about in your earlier comments,   Naviere Walkewicz I definitely recall that.   Brig. Gen. Marks I had a lot of fun, and beyond the fun that you have as cadre during Basic Cadet Training, I had a lot of fun in this regard. As the training NCO, seeing the progress, the development of the basic cadets from I-day, or from that first day of basic training, until the Acceptance Day Parade, if you will, or until we handed them off to the Jacks Valley cadre was something that I really appreciated, because it was very, very noticeable: the changes in drill, the changes in customs and courtesies, the changes in uniform wear, the changes in Mitchell Hall decorum, the changes in how they kept their rooms, et cetera. It was noticeable. And I really appreciated being able to see the fruit of the labor of the cadre. As the BCT commander in so much that you can learn executive-level leadership as a cadet, it taught me a lot about that. So this is the first time that I had an opportunity to conduct my own staff meetings, to build my own staff, to chart a vision, to set objectives, to hold accountable. It taught me a tremendous amount beyond the fun and the great memories of walking across the stage with my taps on during the Fourth of July at A-Hall, which I absolutely still remember to this day, I absolutely remember to this day. But both of those experiences are indelible for me at this point. And I talked to the BCT cadre about them now, because I want them to know that this time that they have is so precious, precious not only because of the memories that they're going to make, but precious because of the impact that they're going to have on these basic cadets. They will remember them forever. They will remember them forever.   Naviere Walkewicz 23:30 Truth. So, I think one of the things that is so unique about that: You said, it was the first time you had the experience of conducting kind of your own operations, or what that looked like, the battle rhythm, the vision. I think a lot of our listeners, you know, they look at you, you're a general, you've been a leader. You know all this. What are some of the things you learned about yourself in that experience that maybe you would share just some lessons in leadership in the early parts of your leadership journey?   Brig. Gen. Marks 23:55 So, I learned very early on, probably as a three degree, that standards really, really matter. It crystallized for me as a probably a three degree, and it just continued to resonate throughout the rest of my career that standards matter greatly in our profession, and perhaps across all walks of life. They matter because of the fact that if we allow someone to not be questioned about meeting standards, we will likely allow further deterioration down the road and erosion down the road, which could lead to catastrophic occurrences. And I've seen it in numerous instances, whether we're talking about accidents, aircraft accidents, whether we're talking about units that have toxic cultures. Because oftentimes it starts with the breadcrumbs that you can walk back to the erosion of standards. There's a line that I love in John Wick. I'm a big John Wick fan. The fourth movie, the bad guy, I don't remember his name, said that his father used to tell him, “How you do anything is how you do everything.” And that is so powerful to me. It is so incredibly powerful. “How you do anything is how you do everything.” I believe that. I truly, truly do. And I learned that for the really, for the first time, as a three degree. I would also tell you perception matters. And I learned that as a firstie as well. How you conduct yourself — as Patton would say, “You're always on parade.” It's important. And if your staff thinks that you are cutting corners here or showing favoritism there, whether that's true or not, it's their reality, and they are going to respond based on how they view their reality, how they view the world in that context. And so, I as a firstie through the experience of the BCT group commander, began to truly pay attention to what perceptions I was perhaps enabling. How about I put it that way? Those are two that come to mind in terms of lessons in leadership that I learned here at the Air Force Academy. When I talk about the idea of building a staff and running a staff meeting, they seem minor. Building the staff was important because it was at that time that I realized that while I may have some things that I'm pretty good at, there are a lot of things that I'm not, and I want to surround myself with people that are good in those areas that I'm not. And so I was very, very deliberate in who I surrounded myself with from a BCT group staff perspective. And then I would also say it's important to, especially when you walk into a group for the first time, to know what you're going to say, to have an agenda for how you want to run things. Because that first impression when you walk in as the leader, as the boss, as the commander, et cetera, it's gonna matter. It is absolutely gonna matter, and you will never have another opportunity to make a good first impression. And so, I could go on and on. I learned a lot from my experiences here in leadership at the Air Force Academy.     Naviere Walkewicz Those are excellent examples.     Brig. Gen. Marks That's why I wanted to come back. While I understood what standards meant and the importance of them as a three degree, I didn't fully put together the impact that the Academy had on me until I was a captain. Leaving here, probably like you and others, I drove away as fast as I could.   Naviere Walkewicz The rear-view mirror…   Brig. Gen. Marks Absolutely, and I told myself that I would never be back here.   Naviere Walkewicz Really?   Brig. Gen. Marks I really did at that time, because enough time hadn't passed to allow me to reconcile all of the wonderful things that had taken place in my development during that four-year period. And it wasn't until I was a captain that I realized that who I was as a function of the Air Force was in large part due to the development that I had received at the Air Force Academy. I credit my parents as well, for sure, but the Air Force Academy, for sure, had a lot to do with that, and I wanted to give that back to other cadets.   Naviere Walkewicz 29:03 Was that in a moment of reflection that you realized that, or was that — did something happen where you were like, “Wow, that's something that I kind of took from the Academy.”? How did you come to that realization?   Brig. Gen. Marks 29:15 I was having — a lot of positive things occurred to me in my career. At that point, I was having a lot of successes, and at some point, I thought about the fact that while certainly I am truly blessed, and certainly there is some luck that plays into that as well, I at some point, through introspection, just kind of look back on the journey that I had gone through from being the knucklehead kid from Atlanta, Georgia, to being this captain in the Air Force, and the metamorphosis that occurred and how that happened. And, so I can only attribute it — some of that, again, is the development over time, when your parents are teaching you things and instilling values and virtue into you, and at the time, when you're a know-it-all teenager, you don't think that it's sinking in, but it does, and it shapes you over time. So, some of it's that, but some of it was the Academy itself. I will tell you this: So, there was a program that I participated in as a junior, I guess, in high school, where I got to come to the Academy for an overnight visit. And I stayed with a cadet, and what I remember about that is this: So I think I stayed two nights. But the first night I went to a pay phone to call a friend, and there was a $20 bill at the top of the pay phone. And so, I went back to the room to tell the cadet, “Hey, somebody left some money there,” and he said, “Don't worry about it. Whoever left it, they'll remember that they left it there, and they'll come back and get it.” And I was bewildered. I was like, I don't understand how that's possible. OK, so the next night, I went to the same pay phone, and it was still there. And I was blown away, and I never forgot that, that this is a place where honor really, really matters. And certainly my parents have integrity, and certainly they, you know, preached and instilled those types of values, but here at the United States Air Force Academy, it was practiced every single day, and it was visibly discernible to me throughout all facets of the Academy experience that undergirding these, you know, push-ups that I was doing and this chemistry test that I was taking, et cetera, was this honor code and these core values that all of us together share. And I just absolutely love that. Reflecting on that over the course of seven years changed my life, truly, for the better.   Naviere Walkewicz 32:15 Thank you for sharing that story. And I actually got chill bumps just thinking about, well, I mean, but you're, right now, you can't think about a lot of places where you can leave something and it's probably still going to be there, or if it was identifiable, it would probably been returned. So, I think that is something we can be so proud of. So, you mentioned, sir, some of your successes. They were kind of, you know, happening outside of the Academy once you'd graduated. Let's talk about what your career looked like and what those successes were.   Brig. Gen. Marks 32:50 So, I was a casual lieutenant. And I guess the claim to fame that I have is that I was Gen. Lorenz's casual lieutenant. So Gen. Lorenz was the commandant immediately after I graduated, went on to become a four-star general, and he is still incredibly active here in the Academy community, and being his casual lieutenant, specifically, his special projects officer, was enlightening in a lot of different ways. Gen. Lorenz is a great leader. He's a unique leader as well. And I learned a lot from being in his space, being in his presence, and seeing how he conducted business. Interestingly enough, when you walk up to the office spaces of the Cadet Wing where my office is, in the hallway is a display of all the previous commandants and their biographies. That was one of my projects as a lieutenant, believe it or not, a long, long, long, long time ago. And so, it gave me an opportunity to be able to research all of the previous commandants to that point and see the commonalities between them as well. So I did that for a little less than a year, and then I went to pilot training. Pilot training was hard. Pilot training was very, very hard. In fact, I came back, if I recall correctly, either in the middle of pilot training or just as I was graduating to talk to the Cadet Wing, the Class of 1998 — one of the classes, '98 or '99 — invited me back to talk at M5.   Naviere Walkewicz I'd like to say it was us.   Brig. Gen. Marks I would like to say it was you all too.   Naviere Walkewicz Can I claim it?   Brig. Gen. Marks And you all gave me the bird, and it was wonderful, and I still have that bird in my office to this day. And I talked about how hard pilot training was, but maybe you'll remember this. I listed the top five hardest things that I've ever done in my life to that point, and I can't remember — I remember No. 1, but I can't remember the exact order, but it was something along the lines of the four-degree year, the entire cadet experience, pilot training, SERE at the time, and my four-degree Honor Guard experience was No. 1 for sure. But all of that to say, just being able to come back to the Academy was a tremendous honor, especially for this silly second, actually, I was a first lieutenant at the time. So went to pilot training and then was selected to be able to stay at pilot training and be an instructor. I went from Columbus to Vance Air Force Base and did that for three years in the T-1, which I absolutely loved. The T-1, that aircraft was probably, if I had the resources, if I was well healed, I would buy myself a T-1 and if I could afford the maintenance. I absolutely love flying that plane and enjoyed my time in AETC. And really, there's nothing special about me. When you enjoy what you're doing and feel like you have a passion for it, oftentimes you're going to do well. I think that's that holds true for just about anybody. I did pretty well in the T-1. After that, I went to an internship at the Pentagon, and so I was there on 9/11 and I got my master's in D.C., left there. After that, I went to Tinker Air Force Base. I did not want to go fly AWACS, and I love AWACS now, but I did not at the time. And I remember when I drove up to the gate for the first time after my year in D.C., and the Security Forces airmen that saw me at the gate asked me, “Are you OK?” just based on the, luckily, based on the look on my face after driving cross country. But what was special about Tinker is that that is where I truly learned, as I would call it, meat-and-potatoes flying, stick-and-rudder flying, no kidding, no thrills and frills. In the AWACS aircraft, you've got to know how to move that jet where you need it to move. You've got to know how to compensate for the aerodynamics of the roto-dome when you're refueling, you've got to know how to fly. And I so it was very enjoyable in that regard, and just being operational was enjoyable. Tinker, though, what I will always credit Tinker for is this: Tinker is where I met my wife.   Naviere Walkewicz 37:15 So I was gonna' ask when the magic happened.   Brig. Gen. Marks 37:19 Yeah, it happened at Tinker. We met through a mutual friend and so, interestingly enough, I always say that the two best decisions I ever made in my entire life, I show on my left and my right hand: my wedding ring on my left, my class ring on my right. Best decisions I've ever made for myself. My wife is retired Air Force 23 years, and she was a first lieutenant, I was a captain. We met through a mutual friend and became friends, and over time, over a period of about a year and a half, we started dating. I asked her to marry me after another year and a half or so, probably a little longer than I should have waited. So, I arrived in 2002, we were married in 2005.   Naviere Walkewicz 37:59 Was her uniform better than yours, sir.   Brig. Gen. Marks 38:05 Oh, goodness, no. So my wife, she will listen to this. My wife would tell you that she has had a wonderful 23-year Air Force journey. Started off with 13 years enlisted time and went to OTS, et cetera. My wife would tell you that I am, I think the term is, I am very “ate up” in terms of the military. Hopefully your listeners know what that means.   Naviere Walkewicz 38:32 Yes.   Brig. Gen. Marks She was not, at all. Not at all. That was not her personality.   Naviere Walkewicz They say opposites attract.   Brig. Gen. Marks 38:35 But I think really, more than anything, what I loved about her, beyond her candor and her honesty, was her compassion as well, her intellect, her ability to be able to see the world in a different way than I saw it — for us to respect each other's opinions about different things, for her difference of a net of opinion, but how she viewed the Air Force and her journey through the Air Force differently than I viewed mine. But we respected each other's nonetheless. And my wife is the reason why I'm still serving and I say that because of this, if my wife was not still in love with this Air Force journey, I would have stopped. I absolutely would have, because being married — and our family is, I hate to say it, is more important to me, truly it is. And so, I would have absolutely stopped. But she loves it. I loathe PCSing. Can't stand it. I'm in a great career field, but my wife loves it, loves the excitement, loves thinking about what's next. And so as long as she's enjoying it, I'm enjoying it too. Yeah, she's my best friend, my best friend for sure. So, we met after that, got married. Fast forward, I left Tinker and went to a Staff assignment in Suffolk, Virginia, stayed there for about three years, went back to the T-1 as a director of operations, a commander in the 99th of Tuskegee Airmen heritage. Then I went to National War College, went to Staff, went back to Tinker, 10 years as the vice wing commander, Offut as the wing commander, back to Staff again, and then here as the commandant.   Naviere Walkewicz 40:32 So, when did the idea trickle back to the mind of, “I want to get back to the Academy?” How did that come into play? Was that just a natural progression of your career? Or how? How does one navigate that?   Brig. Gen. Marks 40:43 So, it was at the time this realization that it had changed me so much and so positively. How can I be a part of another person's just incredible admiration for the experience and appreciation for the experience that they had while they were here? And so, I started investigating becoming an AOC, because at the time, that was where my status in life was in terms of rank, and was the most appropriate, if you will. It just didn't work out for me in terms of the timing.   Naviere Walkewicz 41:24 So, you'd already been looking throughout your career to come back.   Brig. Gen. Marks 41:27 At different points in my career, so about the seven-year point is when I said, “No, I would really like to go back and give back.” And now it's a function of trying to maneuver the timing and all of the other facets that make up an assignment and career progression to try to see how that could work. As an Air Force intern, that counted as my in-residence intermediate developmental education. And so, because of that, I was fast-tracked to staff immediately. And so, timing just didn't work in terms of that intermediate level, getting back to the Academy and making a difference. And so, the next opportunity for me was as a lieutenant colonel, because at that time, our group commanders were group AOCs and they were lieutenant colonels, the opportunity didn't present itself and command of a flying squadron did, and so I absolutely jumped on that with both feet. The idea kind of was off in the back portions of my brain after graduating from command and it didn't come back into the forefront until I got back to the Pentagon because I view the Pentagon as most people do. You know, it's a necessary evil. There is tremendous virtuous work that takes place at the Pentagon. It really is. And I certainly don't mean to poo-poo it. Staff work is important. It's necessary. I wanted to get back into, no kidding, base, desperately. And it had been 27 years-ish to that point. I'd come back for coronavirus. I was working for Gen. Brown and for Secretary Kim. I came back for corona and that was one of the first times that I had been back. And I knew I had to get back here. And interestingly enough, I brought my check to Doolittle Hall. I wanted to be a life member, and I had my $800 check in my pocket. My wife gave me permission, and I was like, “I'm ready.” And I'll never forget this. I don't remember who I talked to, but she said, “Hey, if you wait just a few more months, it'll be free for everybody.”   Naviere Walkewicz Membership for all graduates!   Brig. Gen. Marks I was like, “Sweet!” And then she happened to look at my ring, and she's like, “You got a chip on your ring. Why don't you hand that over to us? Your buying this ring came with a lifetime warranty.” And I was like, “This is unbelievable. This is like, divine intervention. I gotta get back to this place. I love it.” Yeah, I'm so happy to be back here.   Naviere Walkewicz 44:18 That is wonderful. So maybe before we go into arriving back here, kind of some of the surge of what that experience was like — what were some of the leadership nuggets, or the leaders that you worked either under with as peers, those you learned from that worked under you, that you kind of continued to evolve yourself as a leader. What were some of those that shaped you?   Brig. Gen. Marks 44:39 So, I think I will start with my time at Tinker as a flight commander. I think one of the things that I learned then was the importance of being credible in an operational flying squadron. Yeah. Your worth is, especially in a flying squadron, especially as a CGO, your worth is in how well you fly, speaking for pilots in that career field. And so, when you fast forward that to now, what I tell junior officers is this, “As a CGO, your No. 1 objective, your sole objective, is to be a master of your craft. Nothing else really matters. Being a master at your craft is the recipe for success, and if you are not able to do that, it is going to be difficult for you.” So, I learned that at Tinker Air Force Base, I would say, fast forwarding a little bit further to some of my Staff assignments, I would imagine, one of the reasons why I have never been incredibly fond of Staff is because I have — there has never been a good fit for me in terms of the staff assignments that I've been in. I could argue maybe the last one was perhaps, but where I'm going is this: It taught me the need to be able to be adaptable to learn as you go, to be open to learning, and to be humble enough to ask a lot of questions. And I think that that's a tremendous leadership trait to have, to humble yourself to your team, to come in and say, “I don't know everything. I don't know all that you all are doing.” Your stories even, “Please help me to understand. Please teach me.” So Staff, for all of the pains at times, really has developed me to have a better appreciation for that. I would tell you in command, “Oh, my goodness, command is all I ever want to do,” which is both naive and probably a very elementary way of thinking about things I just love command, and command has taught me so much.   Naviere Walkewicz 47:16 What do you love about command?   Brig. Gen. Marks 47:20 So, command is special because there isn't really, not really. There isn't period another position in the military where you are statutorily and regulatorily responsible for mission and people, nothing else. There is no other position in the Department of Defense military like command and to — especially at the unit level, the squadron level — to have such an immediate impact on mission like you are able to, as a squadron commander, and have such a positive impact, direct impact on airmen's lives. It is so incredibly fulfilling. And as you progress and command at higher levels, the direct impact on individuals lives lessens, but the direct impact on mission grows exponentially. I absolutely, not only that, but as you command at higher levels. While the impact, and I probably should have said it this way, the impact that you would have on so many individual airmen's lives' lessons, the impact that you can have on an individual airman's life magnifies based on rank. It is significant also. And I always — one of the things that I tell people all the time is the… it's an oversimplification, but the only reason to have rank is to do good, is to do good things, to make things happen in a positive way that affect positively mission and benefit airmen's lives. That's it. That's all. And if it if rank becomes something different than that for you, you are in the wrong business, or we've given it to the wrong person, if I'm being honest with you.   Naviere Walkewicz 49:11 Thank you for sharing that. So how did you find out that you — how did it work to become the commandant of cadets? Is that something that you're selected for? How did you find out?   Brig. Gen. Marks 49:23 So, I — well for your listeners, there's a dream sheet, if you will. We have a module that we go into and identify things, jobs, positions, perhaps even locations that we think that our skill-set matches up nicely for or that match our family circumstances, and in that module, I talked about the fact that I wanted to be able to give back to the Air Force Academy in this way. And talked about the fact that for 20 years or so, give or take, I have been trying to get back here to be able to have an impact. And I listed some of the things that I felt enabled me to have that type of impact. And then I got a call from the colonel's group or the general officer's group. I can't remember which one, probably general officer's group, that said, “Hey, the superintendent would like to interview you.” And I said, “OK, very good. I look forward to talking to a superintendent.” And what I will tell you is this: It is very difficult to prepare for an interview like that. Number one, you know, in the short amount of time that you're given to prepare for it. And then two, you just really don't know what you're going to be asked. And my knowledge of the Academy was very, very dated, you know, for 27 years ago when I graduated. But I said, “OK, let's go. Let's do it.” And so, I talked to him on the way home from the Pentagon in my car driving home, and we had a really nice conversation. And I remember parking in our driveway, and I remember staying in the driveway for about 15 more minutes as the conversation concluded, and I remember going into the house, and I remember talking to my wife, and I said, “You know, there are probably a number of people that interviewed, and they are, I'm positive, incredibly well suited for the position. There's always somebody better.” That's another great lesson that the Academy taught me, is there's always somebody better. But I said, “I think I feel like that went well. I don't know that I could have given any more to that interview.” Eventually, the superintendent made a decision. The superintendent had to vet that decision through higher levels as well. And eventually you come out on a list and it is announced that this is your next job.     Naviere Walkewicz That's how you found out? You saw the list?   Brig. Gen. Marks So admittedly, you know, birdies are talking to me ahead of time. But at the same time, you are just as a professional, more than anything else that is, that's meant to be private information for just and your family to kind of get your mind wrapped around those types of things. Because, as we've seen over the course of numerous years now, sometimes these lists come out later, and if you were to find out solely by that, that's not a lot of time to house hunt. That's not a lot of time to arrange schools. That's not a lot of time to arrange PCSing, you know, those types of things. So, and in this particular case, I needed to PCS from the Pentagon. I needed to perform a promotion ceremony. I needed to work a change of command ceremony here as well. And so, my wife and I joke, now this last move was the most difficult move we've ever, ever had, because I did all that in 30 days.   Naviere Walkewicz 53:27 Wow, it was a lot, but this was probably one that you were both excited for, not just her.   Brig. Gen. Marks 53:31 Oh, we were. The amount of YouTube videos that we watched in our household about basic training and about the Wings of Blue, just to get our kids excited about this, which is why, I mean — there is no excuse for not knowing what you're walking into at the Air Force Academy, because there are thousands of videos out there. Yeah, and so we were very excited, and the kids were incredibly well educated on what they could expect, everything from the wildlife that's on the installation, to the climate and the altitude, to what cadet life was going to be like. And so, we were really excited. And I remember — and because the kids had never been here at all, my wife and I had taken a trip here early in our marriage, our kids had never seen it and the excitement over the five days of driving was just really, really building up. And so, when we finally were able to see the big white box on the horizon,     Naviere Walkewicz Yes, the chapel-in-the-box.   Brig. Gen. Marks Yeah, when we were able to see that, and I was pointing to it as we were driving, they were just, they were just absolutely bubbling over with excitement. It was amazing.   Naviere Walkewicz 54:34 How did you feel when you saw it?   Brig. Gen. Marks 54:38 Very, very excited. A little overwhelmed. Also, I would tell you, I was really — I was both naive and I was also incredibly humbled and respectful of what I was walking into. Naive in this regard: I felt like, my goodness, I don't know that I've ever been more prepared for a position that I'm walking into than being the commandant of cadets at the Air Force Academy. Because I graduated from here. I surely have to be well prepared and well suited. You know nothing about the inner workings of the Air Force Academy as a cadet. Nothing, nothing. And so, there was so much to learn about governance, not only that — I will tell you this: I had some troubles academically. I never had any run-ins from an honor perspective. I never had any discipline issues, either. And I don't say that to sound self-congratulatory. I say that to show my ignorance, because there were significant gaps in my knowledge and my understanding of how to manage the Cadet Wing, because I had never had any experience with honor, I'd never had any experience with discipline, and so I had to dive into those when I got here and learn that where somebody else might not have had to do that. Very respectful of what I was — the Academy is an incredibly special place. It is also, I don't say this, I don't mean this pejoratively, it is also a lightning rod for attention. There is always attention being drawn to the Air Force Academy and coming into the institution knowing that, it certainly had my attention up front, and I realized also that the opportunity to shape 4,000 cadets and to be able to be the one with a great, amazing team responsible for their military development, their character and leadership development, to ensure that on graduation they had achieved everything that they needed to do in terms of commissioning education to be responsible for their honor education, to be the one that is ultimately overseeing cadet life, it's an awesome, awesome responsibility, and I had a tremendous amount of respect for it when I came into the institution. So overwhelmed in that regard.   Naviere Walkewicz 57:22 I almost could feel through your eyes what you just expressed in coming back and seeing the Academy again and I think this is a wonderful time, because some of us have had the opportunity, whether it's been recent reunions, to hear you speak at reunion briefings, to catch a glimpse of you know, some of the changes or some of the things that you've brought back. Maybe this is an opportunity to share what's Academy life like now, but through the eyes of the commandant. What would you like to share with our listeners?   Brig. Gen. Marks 57:49 So, I would tell you and your listeners that the life of a cadet has changed and is going to change even more. So, I would start much more strategic and talk about this geo-strategically. Being in an era of great power competition, we recognize that because of who our competitor is, because of the advances that they have made, et cetera, it is incredibly important. It's critical for us to rethink how we do just about anything. Rethink how we train, how we develop, how we organize, how we employ force, how we sustain that employment of force, everything. At the Air Force Academy we're in a developmental business and so it's important for us to step back and ask ourselves, with no indictment on the past and the cadets and the lieutenants, rather that we have created and that we have graduated, but right now today, are we doing everything that we can to ensure that the lieutenants that we graduate are ready to lead on Day 1 and win ultimately, should deterrence fail in great power competition? In that deep dive, we have to explore some of the training techniques that we employ here and whether they are applicable on the outside and the force the greater force, or whether they are potentially creating a hazard of negative transfer, we have to ask ourselves whether some of the traditions that we enjoy, or that we have enjoyed here at the United States Air Force Academy, are appropriate for this day and age, send the wrong message, or are potentially harmful in terms of our culture and our climate. Deep diving into all those things, one of the things that I've come to the realization about is this: What I want to be able to do is ensure that a cadet that has graduated — and I know that I won't be here for four years, but assuming that I was — meeting a cadet on I-Day and walking with them through four years, I want to make sure that they feel like they got their money's worth from a military development perspective or military training perspective. And here's what I mean by that: Anecdotally, as I talked to cadets, hundreds of cadets, and talked about their journey at the Air Force Academy, one of the things that I found is that the institution and the curriculum challenged them as a four degree. I think that is universal. But I would also say, and I would imagine, that many of your listeners who are grads would agree that once you were out of your four-degree year, the institution allowed for it to be, if this was your desire, very easy for you to coast militarily, or, dare I say, potentially hide militarily. And I didn't want that. I wanted essentially the same level of rigor that is placed on you academically and the same level of rigor that is placed on you physically and athletically to be placed on you militarily. Said another way, the same sweaty palms that you get in anticipation of your GR are the same sweaty palms that you get in anticipation of your PFT. I want you to have an anticipation of your inspection, or an anticipation of your formation, or an anticipation of your knowledge test, et cetera, throughout your four years. And so, we have evolved our thinking and more importantly, our focus to developing across all four years with the same level of diligence and the same level of rigor that we placed in our fourth-class development. And so the moniker, or the catch phrase, the bumper sticker that we use is that we have transition from a focus on the fourth-class system, to a four-class system, where you can expect, as a rising three degree, or as a rising two degree, to be taught what we need you to do in terms of your military development, expectations and responsibilities, let loose to go practice those things, those supervisory skills, et cetera; assessed on those things, taught warfighting skills as well, that will prepare you for great power competition, et cetera, et cetera. And I can go into a lot more detail, but suffice it to say, this is a significant shift in how we've been operating, and it's a shift for the better, because this is what our nation needs. This is putting us in a better position to be ready on Day 1 to lead and to win on Day 1. So, I'm really excited about it.   Naviere Walkewicz That is exciting. Brig. Gen. Marks We're also bringing some rigor back into expectations about what it means to be a member of the Cadet Wing. So, in other words, we are increasing the number of formations. We are increasing the number of inspections. We are putting our money where our mouth is with respect to the fact that we say and rightly so, that we value character. We are now adding that too as a function of how we assess from a military performance average perspective, how we assess character, because it's so important, it's so critical. There are a lot of changes that are happening for the better, and these changes are going to affect not only the readiness of our cadets, but it's going to affect the culture of our Wing as well in a positive way. It's just going to take some time.   Naviere Walkewicz 1:04:00 That's outstanding. Do you see that trickling up as well into some of the officers that are involved in this, with you, and shaping the cadets — so the AOCs, also your AMTs, and how they're doing that? Is that part of this as well?     Brig. Gen. Marks 1:04:13 It is, and I'll be honest with you, I don't want to be short-sighted or to minimize the impact that the entire institution is going to have. Believe it or not, the touch points that our faculty have, our coaches and staff have, they are abundant, and we would be doing ourselves and our cadets a disservice if all of us in lockstep were — not attacking the problem, but weren't in this together in terms of this development and this approach that we're taking. And so we are. We absolutely are. The dean and I are classmates. We have a tremendous and positive relationship, same with the athletic director and the executive director of Athletics as well. And together we have coffee on a regular basis, and we share ideas and talk about our approaches so that we can together positively impact our cadets. So yes, it is an all-of-USAFA approach and an all-in approach.   Naviere Walkewicz 1:05:22 Absolutely love that. Well, I have two questions. I want to give them to you so you have a chance to think about. The first one being, you know, as a commandant, what keeps you up at night? I think that's something on the minds of our listeners. But then also, would you share maybe, what's something that you're so proud of that's happened since you've been here kind of under your leadership, and maybe something that you're not so proud of? And you can answer those however you'd like.   Brig. Gen. Marks 1:05:48 What keeps me up at night is the resilience of cadets. And let me explain that just a little bit. In no way is that an indictment of a generational thing; this generation of cadets is less. Not at all. It's me talking about human behavior and saying that our program is difficult, it's challenging, and individuals respond in different ways to that, and what keeps me up is an individual feeling like there is no way out. That bothers me a lot. It really, realy, really concerns me a tremendous amount. And so I spend a lot of time talking to our command teams about this and about the need for us to administratively ensure that we are being as efficient as possible when we adjudicate certain matters, because what we don't want to do is leave someone dangling in terms of decision making for months and months on end, because that exacerbates that problem and my concern. In terms of what I am most proud of — so, the jury is still out, but here's what I'll say: I'm very proud of a lot of things. I'm proud of the team we've assembled. I'm proud of the work that is being done at the Staff level. I'm proud of the work that our commanders and our AMTs are doing. Our commanders, our AOCs. I am also very proud of the partnership that we have across the installation. That partnership has enabled us to make a significant change to what is called the schedule of calls, the construct that defines how cadets, day to day, spend their time, essentially. We have made a significant change to it that enables us to provide a more professionalized delivery of commissioning education. It has allowed for us to provide some white space in cadets lives, significant white space. It has allowed for us to build in time for unit fitness. Unit fitness being the operative phrase there, because the unit is so important and developing that cohesion is so important. It ha

On the latest edition of the Samson Strength Coach Collective, we speak with United States Air Force Academy Assistant Strength and Conditioning Coach, Brad Raines. During the episode we discuss the concept of “followership,” life for cadets at USAFA who are also athletes, and the bodyweight circuits that have become infamous on their campus.

Perhaps best known for his accomplishments on the field, at its core, Coach Troy Calhoun's work is about building athletes in to leaders of character.----more---- SUMMARY In this conversation, Coach Troy Calhoun discusses his journey from childhood to becoming the head football coach of the Air Force Falcons. He talks about his upbringing in a family of service and the influence of his parents. Coach Calhoun shares his experiences as a cadet at the Air Force Academy and the lessons he learned in leadership. He also discusses the intersections of athletics and academics and the importance of patience in navigating the highs and lows of life. In this conversation, Coach Troy Calhoun discusses the importance of resilience, patience, and delayed gratification in the pursuit of success. He emphasizes the need to slow down and assess challenges, rather than seeking instant affirmation. Coach Calhoun shares examples of cadets who have shown tremendous growth and success after facing initial difficulties. He also highlights the importance of instilling values and standards in his players, both on and off the field. Coach Calhoun discusses his philosophy on leadership, which includes being right alongside his people, knowing his craft well, and creating an environment where ideas and perspectives are valued. He also emphasizes the significance of believing in and supporting others. Outside of football, Coach Calhoun enjoys spending time with his family, learning, and maintaining a balance in life. He concludes by emphasizing the importance of passion, involvement with people, and the development of others in leadership.   OUR FAVORITE QUOTES "Coach Calhoun can easily be considered a game changer and trailblazer shaping the world of sports, leadership and beyond." "You gotta go serve the people." "The discipline, the attention to detail, and the unselfishness for what was required and demanded in terms of teamwork." "If you push forward when you come out the other side, just the additional strength, the confidence." "Maybe you can share a story? And what I'm thinking about is when you talk about patience and affirmation showing in an outcome that is later on." "You know, I think it is more difficult than ever for a teenager, for all human beings."   SHARE THIS EPISODE FACEBOOK  |  TWITTER  |   LINKEDIN   CHAPTERS 00:00 Introduction and Background 01:50 Childhood and Upbringing 04:25 Discovering the Air Force Academy 05:22 Life as a Cadet 09:00 Leadership and Mentorship 10:27 Intersections of Athletics and Academics 13:23 Lessons in Leadership 16:06 Navigating Challenges and Growth 19:43 Transition to Coaching 22:54 Coaching and Leadership 23:23 Values and Character Development 25:46 The Power of Resilience and Patience 30:08 Instilling Values and Standards for Success 31:59 The Philosophy of Leadership 35:18 Believing in and Supporting Others 42:30 Finding Balance and Pursuing Personal Interests 49:34 Passion and Involvement in Leadership 51:59 The Reward of Developing Others   TAKEAWAYS Coach Calhoun's upbringing in a family of service shaped his values and commitment to leadership. His experiences as a cadet at the Air Force Academy taught him the importance of discipline, time management, and teamwork. Coach Calhoun emphasizes the value of mentorship and the impact it can have on young people. The intersections of athletics and academics provide opportunities for personal growth and leadership development. Navigating the highs and lows of life requires patience and a willingness to learn and grow. Resilience and patience are key qualities for success in any endeavor. Delayed gratification can lead to greater strength and confidence. Instilling values and standards is important for personal and professional development. Leadership involves being involved with and supporting your people. Believing in and supporting others can help them achieve more than they thought possible. Maintaining a balance in life and pursuing personal interests is important for overall well-being. Passion and involvement with people are essential in leadership. Developing others and helping them grow is a rewarding aspect of leadership.   ABOUT COACH CALHOUN BIO Air Force Academy Head Football Coach Troy Calhoun graduated USAFA with the class of ‘89.   Coach Calhoun can easily be considered a game-changer and trailblazer, shaping the world of sports, leadership and beyond.  He is the very dynamic head coach of the Air Force Falcons football team. Known for his innovative approach and unwavering commitment, Coach Calhoun has led the Falcons through remarkable seasons, transforming them into a formidable force in college football and as warfighters. With a career that spans over a decade at Air Force Academy, Coach Calhoun has earned a reputation for building resilient teams and cultivating emerging leaders using a blend of discipline and inspiration.  We'll walk through his journey from his days as a child, to becoming a cadet, then on to coaching and the challenges and triumphs he's experienced in and out of sports. We'll explore his unique strategies, his philosophy on leading and what it takes to succeed at the highest levels of leadership. He is among the most recognizable and respected figures in football.  - Image credit:  Ryan Hall, USAFA AOG   CONNECT WITH COACH CALHOUN RADIO SHOW  |  AIR FORCE FOOTBALL  |  FULL BIO     ABOUT LONG BLUE LEADERSHIP Long Blue Leadership drops every two weeks on Tuesdays and is available on Apple Podcasts, TuneIn + Alexa, Spotify and all your favorite podcast platforms. Search @AirForceGrads on your favorite social channels for Long Blue Leadership news and updates!          TRANSCRIPT OUR SPEAKERS Guest:  Coach Troy Calhoun '89  |  Host:  t. Col. (Ret.) Naviere Walkewicz '99 Navier Walkewicz My guest today is Air Force Academy head football coach Troy Calhoun, USAFA Class of '89. Coach Calhoun can easily be considered a game changer and trailblazer, shaping the world of sports, leadership and beyond. He is the very dynamic head coach of the Air Force Falcons football team and a 2023 recipient of the Association of Graduates' Leadership Achievement Award. Known for his innovative approach and unwavering commitment, Coach Calhoun has led the Falcons through remarkable seasons, transforming them into a formidable force in college football and as warfighters. With a career that spans over a decade at the Air Force Academy, Coach Calhoun has earned a reputation for building resilient teams and cultivating emerging leaders using a blend of discipline and inspiration. We'll walk through his journey from his days as a child to becoming a cadet, then on to coaching and the challenges and triumphs he's experienced in and out of sports. We'll explore his unique strategies, his philosophy on leadership and what it takes to succeed at the highest levels. This promises to be an insightful and engaging conversation with one of the most respected figures in football and leadership. Coach Calhoun, welcome to Long Blue Leadership. Coach Calhoun Well, thank you, Naviere, and what an honor it is to be a part of your show. Naviere Walkewicz Well, this is an honor for us, and I think what our listeners really appreciate about each of our guests is they kind of know a little bit about them, but once they start to learn about your paths and your journey, I think they really find ways to connect with you. So we hope that this will continue that trend so that they feel just as connected to Coach Calhoun as we do. Coach Calhoun We sure hope so. So let's kick it off, right?   Naviere Walkewicz Yes, let's do it. So, Coach, the way we like to start, we like to roll back the dial, we go back to when you were a child. What were you like as a child? Where'd you grow up? Coach Calhoun You know, I grew up in southern Oregon. Ironically, we settled in a town, it was a lumber town, which at that time was very labor-intensive. My dad was a high school teacher and a high school coach. My mom raised the kids and as soon as the kids started grade school — myself and my younger sister — she went and got a two-year nursing degree and then worked as an emergency room nurse. Naviere Walkewicz Wow, so you guys have a just a family of service. Coach Calhoun That's exactly it. I can't tell you how many times I heard my mom say, “You know —" we'd ask mom, “Hey mom, don't you know it's a holiday, it's Thanksgiving, it's, you know, you don't have to go to work today.” And she said, “No, you gotta go serve the people.” The way that resonates now when you look back and to have that kind of figure that way was very inspirational, still is. Naviere Walkewicz That's wonderful. And I can imagine that. So what were some of the experiences like in the Calhoun household when you were a child? Coach Calhoun You know, my dad, obviously being a coach, goodness, he knew so much about every sport, whether it was basketball or baseball. So myself and my younger sister, we both played all kinds of sports. It was year round. It was wiffle ball in our front yard, or it was, we learned how to pole vault at a really young age, which was hard to do. We had a little paved cement area and we had a basket on each end. So we were always playing 2-on-2 or 3-on-3 basketball. Naviere Walkewicz So who would win, your sister or you? Coach Calhoun She'd tell you she always won, but it was just an unbelievable upbringing that way. Naviere Walkewicz My goodness. So you're in sports, no one in your family was  serving in the military though, so how did that even touch your family? Coach Calhoun You know, great question. My mother had three brothers. This was in the early '60s. They were around 20, 22 years old and each enlisted: one in the Marines, one in the Navy and one in the Army. So we really thought, well, that's about the extent of it. And at the beginning of my senior year high school, I got a call from the Air Force Academy, one of the football coaches, who shared a little bit about the Academy. And I really, to be candid, I had no idea. I really didn't. And so my mom goes into work the next morning and asked one of the ER docs, who was also in the Reserves, and said, “Hey, there's this place called the Air Force Academy that called Troy last night, but I really would like for him to go somewhere where he can get an education. Do you know anything about the place?” And immediately one of the docs said, “Joan, if he has that opportunity, you have to make him go.” And she took it literally to heart. And ironically, two years later, my sister also came to the Air Force Academy too. Naviere Walkewicz Wow. truly connected. So let's talk about that. So your mom kind of helped facilitate that encouragement. What did that look like? So you came out here, what was that experience like? Coach Calhoun You know the very first day I arrived here was the first day of basic training, which is not the way to do it. Naviere Walkewicz You knew you were coming for football, but you had not been here yet. Coach Calhoun I had not because I played three sports in high school. I played football… Naviere Walkewicz Then you went right into basketball, then you went right into baseball… Coach Calhoun In the summers, it was all three. It was baseball in the evenings playing games. You'd have football workouts in the afternoon, and I ran the YMCA basketball camp in the morning for younger kids. So, yeah, Day 1 of arrival here was July 5, the morning of July 5, 1985. The first four days, I'm just telling you, I thought, “No way. How do I get out of here?” And I just vividly recall whether you're brushing your teeth or shaving thinking, “There's no way.” And then I got to thinking, you know, “Your mom's an ER nurse in an area where there are lot of significant accidents,” because it was the lumber industry, whether it was, you know, trees falling, accidents at the mill. I mean, just all kinds of different things. And I remember once in a while she'd come home, I thought, “Goodness, she had a real game that day. It's not one of those where the ball bounces one way or the other. And there's no way you can call home and say, no, this isn't for me.” Naviere Walkewicz So that makes sense. You develop that deep resilience you saw from your mom. So I want to talk, before we go into the Academy, let's talk about — you had that great family, it was shown to you as embodied through your mom, your dad, and obviously you and your sister. Were there any other leaders that inspired you? Your own coaches as well, or just teachers? Coach Calhoun Yeah, absolutely. I was blessed to have some really, really outstanding teachers. I don't know why. Math was always a strength, which I think helps while you're here at the Academy, they jump you right into calculus and then Calc 2 and then later on it's Aero and it's Astro. But the other part was to have teachers that taught you the value of history, you know, to understand yesterday. And we're always living to make the most of the present in the moment and what kind of vision we can put forth for the future. But to learn from some of the mistakes in the past, to learn from the good things in the past, just to know where that can be applied as we move forward too. And my high school football coach was incredibly influential. He ran an incredible program where not only did they win a lot, but more importantly than the result were the standards, the discipline, and more than anything else, just the attention to detail and the unselfishness for what was required and he demanded in terms of the teamwork. Naviere Walkewicz So you actually were living the life of a cadet as a high school football player. Coach Calhoun I tease people about this when I'm asked back home once in a while and I say, you know, all those times you were lining up just getting through the first 10 minutes of practice — which was stretching where you couldn't put your toes on the line, they had to be just behind it — I said, “After playing for Coach Thurman Bell in high school, basic training wasn't all that hard.” So, absolutely I do. Naviere Walkewicz I love that. OK, so the Academy recruited you for football, you showed up and you made it through basic training. So, let's talk a little bit about your life as a cadet, because I think we appreciate this about our athletes. We've had a chance to talk with Karl Falk, who was also on the team. I think what's interesting is there's more to the cadet life than just one facet. And so while I think athletics is a huge part of it, what were you like as a cadet? What were some of your experiences? Coach Calhoun You know, I actually did really well on the MPA part of it. I think the academic end took me a little bit of time, to be frank. Now I end up making the Dean's List towards the end of my time here at the Academy a few times. And yet you learn the value of time management. We're all blessed with the ability to make good choices, to be disciplined, to work hard. We all have that talent. And I think that's a key part of moving forward to coaching. You realize how important that is to share with young people. Yeah, that's in there, now we gotta tap into it. And certainly here at the Academy, it's just invaluable, all those intrinsic qualities that I think come to the surface. And I certainly felt that way, in a good number of facets were just how transformational it was for you as a human being. Naviere Walkewicz Some of our listeners are early in their leadership journeys and so I think there is a period of time where maybe there's more peer leadership. Can you share some examples when you're a cadet, what did that look like to you and where did you maybe struggle or soar? Coach Calhoun I'll say this, during the four-degree year I was fortunate enough to be with the older guys and to travel a good bit and so you naturally looked up to some of those juniors and seniors and those older players, and the older cadets too. I think the part that was so — it made such an imprint while you were here was really the strong interest that older students took, in this case older cadets, their first year, two-degree year, they're juniors or seniors in college, but how committed they were to younger grades, because, candidly, you rarely experience that maybe when you're in high school or even on other teams. Boy, I just, I thought that's so incredible where the older guys want to help the younger guys on your team or the older cadets truly do — the way they're invested and how much they care about the younger generation. Naviere Walkewicz Was there one in particular that kind of took you under his wing that there's something that you carry with you now in the way that you lead? Coach Calhoun I had so many, you know, they were teachers. I think that was the other part that was absolutely awesome. I think we both felt this at times, maybe in different ways. The commitment of our faculty here at the Academy, you know, to be able to go get extra instruction. You complete a quiz and maybe you didn't do real well on that quiz and the instructor comes to you and says, “Hey, let's find a time where we can get together,” and I think we know how unique that is in higher-level education in this day and age because there are a good number of universities where the classroom size may have 250 or 300 students, or there may be a teaching assistant or a graduate assistant, but here the expertise and truly the commitment to the cadets, it just made it even more inspiring to say, “All right, I want to be a good student while I'm here.” Naviere Walkewicz You actually are seen and felt in the classrooms here for sure. So you saw some of your upperclassmen really kind of pouring into you. How did that translate in your leadership as a cadet, either on the field or off? Coach Calhoun No doubt. I think not only, you know, while you're young person growing up, whether it's in your home, playing sports or you're working in a job or you're in your squadron during your time in Vandenberg or  Sijan, you see so many different ways to lead or to have impact. A lot of good and honestly, there are some times where you say, “No that might not be the most effective way to reach and to encourage and to mentor somebody,” and I try like crazy to learn from everybody, you know, because no matter what the encounter is or the experience, maybe let's pull from it. Naviere Walkewicz Is there anything from when you were a cadet that you carry now with you as a coach and leader? Coach Calhoun Yeah, an immense amount. I think more than anything else, you have to do everything you possibly can and it's no way can you put yourself in the soles of each person, but to realize that every human being is a unique individual. Are we trying to build teams? Absolutely. But we're trying to bring the most to tap into those talents of each person and to do everything we can to help them sprout. Naviere Walkewicz I think I can share firsthand with our listeners: I've had the great honor of listening to you introduce your team, introduce your coaches and I think what's so impressive about you is it's beyond just their name and maybe some of their stats, but you know them as people and you know them as how they are in their families. And I think that translates really, really well to all those pieces you just spoke to. Coach Calhoun Well, I appreciate it. I'll tell you this: I want to know them as deeply as you possibly can. I think in order to be the most effective for our team's sake, again, it's got to be person by person. And I truly believe in this day and age, it's easier to reach a young person than it's ever been. Not everybody would agree with that. And I say that from the standpoint — we all do, we spend so much time looking at a monitor or a phone or, you know, that whenever we have real human interaction and their sincerity, you know, there's a genuine feeling where this person's trying to help me grow as a leader, grow as a person, do a little better academically and realize the value of education or help me develop as a better football player too. Naviere Walkewicz Just to dig into that a little bit more, I think part of leadership is being able to have conversations that help people grow. Sometimes that's, “Hey, this is a good fit for you, this is not a good fit for you.” When you were a cadet, how did you navigate some of those conversations that's translated over time? Because I know a lot of our listeners feel like that's one of the biggest challenges in leadership. It's great when things are great, but when things aren't, how do we navigate that? Coach Calhoun Well, honesty. If you provide me, it may be critical, but I know you're doing it to help correct or to improve, you got me. I think the other part is to have a forever appetite and thirst to learn and to grow. And I think when that's really your heart, your mindset, that you're completely open to understand and various viewpoints that will help you do exactly that. Naviere Walkewicz I think that's powerful for people to really intake because, especially when it's coming from a place of care, and I think that's what we're in the business of and being open to feedback is really critical for leadership. So I'd like to transfer to when you graduated from — well actually before we do that, your sister was here. How were you as a cadet supporter of her? Coach Calhoun You know she had an amazing four years here at the Air Force Academy. She graduated No. 1 in her major academically, was a 10-time All-American distance runner in track and cross country, won six NCAA championships as a runner. Her senior year she was the NCAA champion in cross country and then won five other national championships in indoor and outdoor track. You know, she teases her brother a little bit. “So,” she says, you know, “you must suffer from big brother syndrome or older brother syndrome.” I say, “Cool it, young lady.” But, you know, she made the utmost of the cadet, the Academy experience. And truly I, boy, in so many ways, I looked up to my younger sister and I still do. Naviere Walkewicz Well, I understand why you chose baseball. So let's talk about when you graduated. What were the early years of post-graduation like for you? Coach Calhoun Yeah, I stayed for one year here at the Academy as a graduate assistant football coach and also taught a PE class. I'm thinking initially, “This will be kind of neat. You'll let down a little bit after you've been at the Academy.” But it was an awesome leadership experience. You know, the mentorship, the interaction, especially with the new cadets or new basics going through basic training, during that four-degree year being able to help them plan their schedule academically or teach them how if they have better footwork for this particular call they'll execute a play a little bit better or just interacting with them as people. My goodness, you realize, I mean just the various backgrounds, the interests, maybe the motivational levels too because that's real, the different strengths in terms of skills and talents — that was where you realized, my goodness, as a leader, as a coach in this case, how helpful you can be. Naviere Walkewicz Is that when the seeds were planted for you that you knew you wanted to coach golf and football down the road? Coach Calhoun You know, that wasn't the plan, it really wasn't. In fact, I really wanted to go to pilot training. Naviere Walkewicz So after that first year, what happened? Coach Calhoun Well, you have your physical late in your junior year, it was March of your two-degree year. And at that time, they said there's a little bit of distance concern. And we didn't have LASIK or PRK, you know? And so you end up taking a little different path naturally. Naviere Walkewicz So after you did the year here kind of teaching and also supporting the team, what did you do? Coach Calhoun I worked in management information systems in the Air Force and specifically it was a program where if the president, the commander-in-chief, had to send an EAM literally from one of the legs of the triad to launch, is it a real message? Can you authenticate the message? And is it dual key where it's truly two people that say, “Yep, it's a go?” Trying to recreate some of the roles and the intensity of what that situation may be and being able to get to execution and just to see it in so many fascinating ways because you saw it at the field level, with longer range missiles, the ICBMs, being able to interact with that community, to interact with a contractor for software for hardware, just every facet of it that way — you had an awful lot on your plate in terms of managerial leadership responsibility. Naviere Walkewicz Right off the bat, I'm familiar with that — I'm actually retired strategic command so, yes, everything you just shared is definitely important. So you did that, and then what happened? Coach Calhoun You know, I got a call when I was a first lieutenant from the Academy that said, “We'd like for you to come back.” So I came back for what would have been years five and six, my first two years as a captain here to the Air Force Academy and coached during those two years and recruited during those two years. One of the assistants on the staff, Jim Grobe, became the coach at Ohio University. He asked a few of us that were here at the Academy — It was Brian Knorr, was Billy Mitchell, it was... And then he went and asked Tim DeRuyter, who was a 1985 graduate of the Academy, if we wanted to join him at Ohio University. And that's exactly what we did. Naviere Walkewicz So you started your team there, and now we see a lot of that team has been part of this Falcon family as well. Coach Calhoun Absolutely, you know, and I think, you know, you just kind of knew immediately so much of what we leaned on initially were the lessons that we learned while we're here at the Academy. Naviere Walkewicz Can I pull on that thread a little bit? You're here as a captain, you're coaching. Let's talk about the intersections of athletics and academics because I think that's really important for our listeners just to understand, how you said earlier, those leadership skills translate. Can you talk a little bit more about that — what you saw in the cadets from your perspective as a coach? Coach Calhoun Well, I think I think there are so many different reasons why cadets come to the Academy. There are a good number of them that are either second-generational, second-generation or multi-generational in terms of military families. We probably, I know we do, we have many that are first-generational as far as being the reason why they chose to come to the Academy. Naviere Walkewicz Like you. Coach Calhoun Yeah. And yet what's neat is the rewarding part of it, whether it's seven years later or 15 years later, being able to see how many of them have absolutely thrived once they go on to active duty or even beyond in the civilian sector too. Just, boy, I mean, it's a process. It truly is. If everybody was ready on Day 1, we wouldn't need a United States Air Force Academy. We'd commission them right away. But during those four years, 47 months, the ups and the downs, so many different mistakes that are made, but to learn and to grow from those mistakes, I don't think we can ever take for granted. There's a reason why from really initially, the very first week, there's so many things that are spelled out in terms of our values. When it comes to respect for each human being, the work ethic, always give a third effort, the resiliency and the grit part of it, that really — that's what we want them to internalize in terms of the fortitude and the character. And then we go on to the other skills when they're here a little bit longer at the Academy. Naviere Walkewicz So some of our listeners love when there's shared ways of how they can navigate. You talked about some of those highs and lows. And I'm sure that happens in life, right? Not just on the field, but also academically and all of the different facets of life. So what would be just something you would share with a leader that's helping someone navigate through the highs and lows that's kind of cyclical? Coach Calhoun Yeah, I think more than anything else is to be patient, which kind of works a little bit… while you're here at the Academy initially. So much of it is creating an instant impulse or the instant drive rather than saying, “No. We're working with human beings here.” There are going to be some bumps and some struggles and some adversity, but let's help them realize that what may look like a real challenge, and it is a real challenge, or a real time of difficulty, if you push forward when you come out the other side, just the additional strength, the confidence, the forever resiliency that hopefully has become internalized. Naviere Walkewicz I love that. Teach a little bit of patience because I think in a society that is running so fast, everything is instantaneous, to teach our cadets, our future leaders, et cetera, to slow down and really kind of assess. Is that what you mean? Coach Calhoun Absolutely. And you hit the nail on the head. In this day and age, how quickly we can get anything, we think we're getting so much instant affirmation. That somebody re-liked or re-tweeted something that I said. You know, we think that's real affirmation. Or maybe that's not the case in terms of it really being best in terms of our well-being. Naviere Walkewicz So maybe can you share a story? And what I'm thinking about is when you talk about patience and affirmation showing in an outcome later on, maybe talk through, has that been someone that you've seen come through your program that maybe you thought was, “I don't know,” and then on the other end, you're just, “Wow!”? Coach Calhoun I have many, many examples. The reason why, you know, it's so many other — comparatively speaking, a college football program, how many are bringing a guy in, they're saying in Week 1 in June. In fact, I'll back up. Instead of  finishing high school in spring semester your senior year, we're going to bring you in in January so you can get going to classes, you can go through spring practices. That way, maybe we have you ready in the fall to be able to play right away. Where here, it's a different approach, you know? No, when you first get here, you're gonna start basic training and you're gonna go through five and a half weeks. We get you one tremendous haircut. No, you're not gonna have your phone or really any interaction with any kind of outside source, whether it's media, whether it's any kind of personal interaction unless you handwrite a letter, you got a pen right there and now exactly where to put the stamp on the top right hand part of the envelope. And so the foundation that you see here, probably specifically to the football part of it, it takes a little longer because there is that basic training prior to the freshman year or four-degree year. There is the first three weeks of June are going through CST or what used to be SERE, you know, prior to the three-degree year. And so football-wise, a lot of times maybe you don't see the real capability of that person until their two-degree year. And so the lessons that you have to share, I think especially with four-degree players is that, hey, it takes time, but you can cite so many examples of guys that didn't play a snap their freshman year, maybe only played in three games their three-degree or sophomore year. And whoa, PJ Ramsey has seen years as a First-Team All-Conference player. But why? You go back, incredibly hard worker, sharp, cared about other people and was incredibly committed to whatever his craft was at that time, whether it was school during the academic time, being a good cadet, or certainly when it came to football during those times, whether it was in the weight room, meeting rooms, just the commitment that way. Naviere Walkewicz Yes, that's a great example. How do you instill in your players the importance of those same standards off the field? Coach Calhoun You know, I think it is more difficult than ever for a teenager, for all human beings. And, you know, the amount of distractions that are present for all of us, you know, there's a lot more items happening on Facebook. There's a lot more media. There's a lot more judgment. To have the discipline to be able to put that aside at times, boy, that can become a strength for you later in life if you do develop that. There are times where you have to turn your phone off. I think the other part is you don't take for granted that everybody understands the values that maybe our team is — each team member is going to be committed to as a part of our program. I think you have to be very clear in terms of what those standards are, how you treat people. We're here to get an education. We're going to be completely committed to help you develop as a football player. But most importantly, when you're done playing football, whether that's at age 19, 22 or 32, we want to put you in a position where you can do tremendous work, whether it's in our Air Force or our Space Force. You can be a really strong contributing member of our community or whatever community in which you live. And to be a quality member of your family, whatever that may be in your personal life too. Naviere Walkewicz So you talked about some of those standards that you expect from the team. Can we shift a little bit to some of your philosophy on leadership that you've developed over the years, right? I'm sure that it's continued to evolve. You mentioned that you're learning all the time. What are some of those things? Coach Calhoun I'll say this. I think you have to be right alongside your people. Goodness, maybe 125 years ago during the Industrial Revolution, everything could be top down and dictated and say you have to be here from 7 to 3, you're working that shift or you have the late night shift from 11 p.m. to 7 a.m. That's not where you're going to get the most out of people and certainly not where they're going to develop the most either. I think you have to know your craft incredibly well. Even the nuances, certainly strategically there has to be a vision, but even tactically, you know, they know if you know your stuff and, again, I just can't say enough about getting to know each individual human being too. Naviere Walkewicz How do you lead your staff so that they carry that same level of care — the cadets and the team members? Coach Calhoun Yeah, awesome question. You know, I think first of all, during the hiring process is making it quite clear in terms of every place has challenges or obstacles. Certainly if you come to the Air Force Academy and you coach football, you're a recruiter for the United States Air Force Academy, the admission standards. We're looking for somebody that's an exceptionally strong student, has a good bit of aptitude leadership-wise. And the other part of it is, yeah, there are some things that are involved here in terms of conduct, in terms of personal choices. And yes, you are going to serve because often, with a good number of the 17-year-olds with whom we interact initially they don't know that. Naviere Walkewicz That's right. So how do you communicate the values and the standards so that it does kind of reach them? Coach Calhoun Well, I think more than anything else, again, I think you have to be as much as you possibly can involved in the inner workings of how the day to day goes. And I don't think you can be distant. I don't think you can say, “Well, it's a little bit of the CEO mindset,” or, “I'll just tell people what to do.” That doesn't work real well in this day and age, especially. People want to know why. They want to know the logic behind a good number of the choices or decisions that we make for our program. I think deep down they appreciate that. I think you tend to get a little more buy-in when that's the case. And the other part, quite frankly, is trying to create an environment — not everybody feels comfortable this way, but where they will bring thoughts and ideas to you, the cadets do. And realizing that's embraced, because they have some pretty unique perspectives or adjustments. I mean, you're forever going to evolve and adapt. And that's a must, I think, in any environment, really in any industry in this day and age too. Naviere Walkewicz I mean, leadership is 360, right? Up, down, sideways. Can you share something that you learned in leadership from a cadet? Coach Calhoun Well, a bunch. I mean, the number of things they bring us. I remember one year we were playing at Army. This was in 2008. And it was a 12 o'clock Eastern kickoff, which is 10 o'clock Mountain. And so we left on Friday. We really didn't get any rest at all on Friday afternoon. And our meetings were a little bit hurried on Friday evening. And a couple of the junior cadets after the season came up and said, “Coach, would there be any way we could maybe leave on Thursday evening after practice, so we had all day Friday to carry forth on a regular schedule like we usually are accustomed to the 24 hours leading up to the game?” I was like, “You're on it. Let me go see what we can get done.” And it did not compromise in terms of more missed classes. They were better rested and they played better as a result. And so I think more than anything else is do everything you can again to make people feel welcome to bring different perspectives, especially when it makes our team better. Naviere Walkewicz Absolutely, that's a great example. Our listeners are always looking for, “I might not be the most seasoned leader. I might not be charge so I don't feel like I have a voice.” It sounds like what you're sharing is good leaders, make it an open field for feedback. Coach Calhoun Absolutely. I think more than ever how important that is. There are so many different viewpoints and perspectives. Like I share with the guys all the time, you know, I try to meet with the seniors frequently and just say, “Don't assume that I know,” you know — if there's not hot water in the showers and we aren't practicing good hygiene, boy, that's going to affect maybe having more viruses. Something that simple, you gotta bring it to me. Naviere Walkewicz That's wonderful so you make that open — that communication is key. Wow, this has been really incredible. Maybe tell some of our listeners, because I think a lot of times people will assume, well, this is what they do, this is all they do. What are some of the things that you enjoy outside of football? Coach Calhoun I think being with your family, trying to soak in as much of an imprint, to be with your own. I have kids. You know, that time and how much you learn from your own son and daughter. I've been beyond fortunate to have an incredible co-pilot with Amanda, just how bright she is, how caring she is, how perceptive, how much she's helped me coach, might not necessarily be X's and O's, but just when it comes to, you know, maybe how people are doing. And then the other part is I think the level of fitness, you know, to be committed that way. Naviere Walkewicz Is physical fitness a part of it? Coach Calhoun It is. trying to create some balance and perspective. You've got to carve out a little time, even in the heat of the season, you know, where that's the case. Naviere Walkewicz How do you do that? Coach Calhoun And well, I think you got to read. That's one way, you know, for many, and it is for us. Is there a spiritual balance there? There is. I think the other part of it is still trying to engage with people, because they bring you so many ideas and thoughts that may not be necessarily that are in our working field, but certainly we can carry over. Is it a new use of a technology? Is it a different way to look at nutrition? Just because of how important that is. And so I love learning. I think there are so many awesome examples that way. We went on a trip for 15 days here in early June, Amanda and I did, and we tried to digest as much World War II, Cold War, Holocaust and Europe. And it was just astounding how much we were able to learn during that journey. Naviere Walkewicz What did you take from that? Coach Calhoun Well, we were in Berlin. We spent two nights there in East Berlin — what was East Berlin. You know, and certainly you could recognize a good number of the buildings that were formerly in old East Germany. You could see some of the influence of the infrastructure and commitment, whether it was to business or facilities on the east side that's been made. That was unbelievable. You know, to go to Nuremberg, to go to Dachau, just how stunning it truly was. To go to Munich and then to come back up through, down into Austria and Switzerland. We ended up in Amsterdam and went through the Anne Frank house. More than ever, you realize how important it is, what we do at the United States Air Force Academy. The commitment to freedoms, to how you interact and treat people, the maturity and the respect, and how I believe even more strongly we need the United States Air Force Academy and the commitment to the values that we have here. And not only in our Air Force and our Space Force, but really to carry that forth into our communities and throughout our society. Navier Walkewicz Oh my goodness. What a trip to reinforce so much of what you live every day. Maybe you can share with us, as a coach, we talk about many successes. That's come with a lot of learning. What have you learned about yourself through the years? Coach Calhoun Well, it's not about you. You know, and I think especially as time passes, if you really want your team to perform at the highest level possible, goodness, it's got to be about the people that are especially at the front line. That's our players that are blocking and tackling; it's our coaches that are providing that individual, you know, individualized instruction. And are we doing everything we can to support them that way? And I think we all do in all of our roles. We know somebody really does have a strong, sincere interest in helping us achieve or to win. You know that. And that's where you want to gravitate towards, because they're going to help you change and transform. Trying to provide that to not only our young men that are a part of our team, but the number of young women that we have that support, whether they're as cadet managers or working and recruiting, it takes everybody. Naviere Walkewicz It really does. I think that's really powerful. It's Interesting when you know that someone believes in you, it's almost like you're capable of more than you ever thought possible. Coach Calhoun So true. I mean, I think we all can cite examples, whether it was a loved one, a family member, a teacher, a coach, somebody that you just knew they believed in you. And that's how you grow. That's how you change. Are there going to be failures and mistakes? Absolutely. Yet as we go through life, we can't be afraid to make a mistake. You know if you're flying an F-16, there are going to be some mishaps and yet hopefully you don't repeat those mistakes because you learn from them and that's how you grow. Naviere Walkewicz Coach, this has been amazing. Sometimes our listeners want to learn something interesting that you would share with us that you haven't shared with others. Is there a hidden talent or something that is unique to Coach Calhoun? Coach Calhoun I don't know if there's a hidden talent. I'll say this: I absolutely love what I do. I've felt that way all along. And yet maybe even more today than ever before. Just because now that you've done it for a few years, there have been a good number of young men. Maybe you were in their home when they were 17 years old and now you see them when they're 28 or 29 and they're flying F-35s or they're your team doctor like Travis Decker is currently, or guys that are working out in the corporate world. And so you see and the kind of fathers or maybe husbands they are that's quite impactful in fact it just tells you we got to go even harder here. So, you know, I think the other part that's so unique about the Air Force Academy too is we have to develop a warrior mindset. You know, and are there times where we are in an office setting? Yeah, there's a different demeanor there that you have to have in terms of the maturity and how you work together. Yet at the same time, we're developing young men and young women that are ready to be right at the tip of that spear too. You know, that's a requisite as part of our work is to prepare them to, if you have to eliminate an enemy or an object, to be in the right frame of mind to do that legally and operate in a way where you're following a candid order. Naviere Walkewicz You didn't share with us a hidden talent but we do know you love what you're doing. No, I'm just teasing. So, is there anything that I — so, two more things. One, I'm gonna ask you if there's anything I didn't ask that you really want to make sure our listeners hear. And then we always like to leave our listeners with like very specific kind of leadership lessons. So I'll just ask you the first one: What haven't I asked you that's on your heart to speak about today? Coach Calhoun Well I I'll say this: I think the other part that's so important for a service member or a cadet is there's somebody else that's been instrumental, whether it was in their upbringing or a co-pilot — I mentioned Amanda earlier — how invaluable they are to the performance of a person. And boy, you just know there's somebody in that — whether it was a parent, mom, dad, maybe a coach. Getting to know them a lot of times helps you too. There's so much insight that a parent provides me so often, even when a cadet is at the Academy. That's why you want to do everything you can. We talked about lines of communication, of trying to create that two-way dialogue. I know a lot — and it happens frequently in college coaching — there are a good number of coaches that say, “Man, those parents are something else.” I'm like, “Nah, I love my parents.” They share a lot with me. That helps me not only coach their son, but helps me develop and grow their young man too. Naviere Walkewicz I love that. Alright, well, I know our listeners are really excited to hear what are going to be those key items you want to share on leadership. But before we get there, I want to be sure that we provide a note of thanks to all of you listening to Long Blue Leadership. Naviere Walkewicz (Long Blue Leadership promotion) This podcast drops every two weeks on Tuesdays and is available on all your favorite podcast apps. Be sure to send us your thoughts and comments at socialmedia@usafa.org and listen to past episodes at longblueleadership.org. Naviere Walkewicz So coach, I want to get back to you because this is all, and I know you said it's not about you, but today it's about you, Coach, and we're really appreciating this. What do you want to leave our listeners with? Because we have leaders of all levels and I think that's the whole point, right? You can be a leader at all levels. But what are some of the best leadership lessons you'd like to share? Coach Calhoun Well, you need to be doing something that you love, that you're passionate about. And the other part is, again, just the involvement that you have with your people. You know, to get in there literally where you're hip to hip and shoulder to shoulder. And I think sometimes whether you're in a leadership role or maybe you have a certain rank, you think, “I can't do that in order to maintain my distance professionally.” And I wholeheartedly disagree. I think you have to be able to operate from different perspectives as a leader. I think clearly you can still articulate and live the standards that are a part of your operation or your unit or your football program. But again, it's about people and that's what makes it go. I heard somebody say once, “If there were only computer chips or ones and zeros, the binary, then maybe we would need these standards or we wouldn't have some of these behavioral challenges,” yet we'd be really, really limited, not only in the growth, but the talent that gets to come to the surface. And it's our job to identify potential attributes and see them sprout, to see them change, and to see them grow. It's the greatest reward there is to help another human being, not only maybe in the future, be it their quality of life or to help them professionally, or maybe with a specific task. And that's what real leadership — that's what real coaching is. Naviere Walkewicz That's outstanding, Coach. Thank you. You've done this a couple times. Coach Calhoun Not like this. Naviere Walkewicz I appreciate you doing this then. Just kind of opening up. Was there anything else that was on your mind though? I didn't want to focus on asking you about the season. I'm sure you get plenty of that. Coach Calhoun No. Goodness, I think we hit the main points. You could talk about leadership — the breadth and the depth of what's involved — you could go on and on and on and on about how important so many things are, but I think we hit the key points, at least from kind of the way I see it.   Naviere Walkewicz Alright, I wanted to make sure we were able capture your thoughts on leadership in the way you feel really good about it because I think you're going to have listeners hanging on to every word. Coach Calhoun OK, thank you. If you need anything else, let me know. Naviere Walkewicz Oh, definitely will, Coach.   KEYWORDS Troy Calhoun, Air Force Academy, football, leadership, childhood, upbringing, cadet, coaching, challenges, triumphs, strategies, philosophy, success, sports, education, mentorship, resilience, teamwork, discipline, inspiration, resilience, patience, delayed gratification, challenges, growth, success, values, standards, leadership, involvement, support, family, learning, balance, passion, development     The Long Blue Line Podcast Network is presented by the U.S. Air Force Academy Association and Foundation        

A conversation with Sam Eckholm '18 about his unique path and work to inspire the next generation of military leaders through social media and content creation.----more---- SUMMARY In this edition of Long Blue Leadership, host Lt. Col. (Ret.) Naviere Walkewicz '99, is talking with Sam about his journey from the three times he landed on the “footprints” on in-processing day through the challenges he faced as he learned to lead his peers, side-stepping career advice that might have left him in obscurity, his relentless perseverance pursuing his dreams, graduation in 2018, the history he's making now and Sam's continuing support of the Air Force Academy.     SOME OF OUR FAVORITE QUOTES "Putting yourself in other people's shoes is big." "If you have an end goal in mind, it's not going to be easy to get there. If it was easy, everyone would be doing it." "What you see as a finished polished video, the behind the scenes is crazy." "Don't lose sight of that end goal." "Dig deep down and realize what you want. And just relentlessly go after that."   SHARE THIS EPISODE FACEBOOK  |  TWITTER  |   LINKEDIN    CHAPTERS 00:00 - Putting Yourself in Other People's Shoes 21:13 - The Terrazzo Gap: Challenges and Perceptions 23:49 - Finding Passion in Clubs and Sports 27:40 - From Photography to Public Affairs 30:05 - Inspired by the F-22 Demo Team 31:00 - Pursuing a Career in Public Affairs 32:24 - Learning and Growing as a Young Lieutenant 33:22 - Challenges and Rewards of Public Affairs 34:22 - Maintaining Motivation and Finding Balance 35:44 - Leading Others and Finding Personal Outlets 38:41 - Transitioning to Entrepreneurship 41:49 - Impactful Moments and Inspiring Others 46:49 - Overcoming Challenges and Pursuing Dreams 53:31 - Supporting the Academy and Creating Impactful Content 56:19 - Final Thoughts and Message to Listeners   TAKEAWAYS  - Putting yourself in other people's shoes is important for effective leadership  - The Terrazzo Gap between intercollegiate athletes and non-athletes at the Academy is a unique challenge  - Being involved in clubs and sports at the Academy provides valuable experiences and friendships  - Passion for photography and social media can lead to a career in public affairs.  - Don't lose sight of your end goal and relentlessly pursue it.  - Advocate for yourself and trust in your own decisions.  - Creating meaningful impact requires hard work and dedication.  - Inspire others by sharing your journey and experiences.  - The Academy Blueprint program helps level the playing field for aspiring cadets.  - Expand your knowledge and learn from various sources of inspiration.  - Don't be discouraged by challenges and setbacks; they can lead to growth and success.   ABOUT SAM Deep down, Sam Eckholm always knew the Air Force Academy was where he belonged. As the son of an Air Force pilot and Academy graduate, he was brought up on the blue and silver. After graduating high school in Dallas, Texas, he followed in his dad's footsteps, attending the U.S. Air Force Academy as a member of the class of 2018. Following graduation, Sam was selected as a member of the F-22 Raptor Demonstration team, where he traveled the world as a Public Affairs Officer, documenting the 5th generation stealth fighter jet at air shows across the globe. After separating from active duty in 2022, Sam's passion for military service has not changed, but his ability to share that passion with an even larger audience has. His videos have accumulated over 100 million views online, with over 1 million followers across his social media platforms. Attending the Air Force Academy is what started it all, and Sam's goal is to help others achieve their dreams of throwing their hat in the air and graduating from the Academy. The Air Force Academy Blueprint is the culmination of almost two years of pouring his heart and soul into a singular project, and he can't wait to bring it to you. - Image and copy courtesy of Sam Eckholm CONNECT WITH SAM LINKEDIN  |  INSTAGRAM  |  FACEBOOK  |  TWITTER   LINKS WE MENTIONED ACADEMY BLUEPRINT SAM'S YOUTUBE CHANNEL     ABOUT LONG BLUE LEADERSHIP Long Blue Leadership drops every two weeks on Tuesdays and is available on Apple Podcasts, TuneIn + Alexa, Spotify and all your favorite podcast platforms. Search @AirForceGrads on your favorite social channels for Long Blue Leadership news and updates!          SAM'S YOUTUBE CHANNEL     TRANSCRIPT OUR SPEAKERS:   Guest:  Sam Eckholm '18  |  Host:  t. Col. (Ret.) Naviere Walkewicz '99   Sam Eckholm Putting yourself in other people's shoes is big. It's kind of hard to remember that because you're getting information from your leader, right, your boss, they're telling you one thing, it's hard for them to see kind of two layers down how that's going to impact everyone else. So, I mean, I would always just try to put myself in other people's shoes. Okay, if I do this, what's that gonna… how's that going to make this person feel?   Naviere Walkewicz My guest today is Sam Eckholm, USAFA class of 2018 and Air Force captain turned full-time entrepreneur and storyteller, the third in his family's Long Blue Line. Sam is the son of a 1989 graduate and the nephew of a 1993 graduate. All three hail from Cadet Squadron 28, the Blackbirds. We'll talk with Sam about his Dallas roots to the day he stood on the footprints at the Academy. We'll ask him about how he made his way from the wing to the F-22 Raptor demonstration team, then public affairs, out of the Air Force in '23, and now an entrepreneur, content creator and social media influencer. Sam's father and uncle were his main sources of inspiration for becoming a member of the profession of arms. And he has stayed close to the Air Force and the Academy ever since. He leads hopefuls to reach for their dreams and shares his passion for all things Air Force with the world. As we move through the conversation, we'll talk about lessons he's learned in being a leader, and what advice he would give to those aspiring to become leaders and leaders who want to be better. Sam, I'm really looking forward to this conversation. Welcome to Long Blue Leadership and thank you for being here today.   Sam Eckholm Naviere, it's always great to see you. It's always great to be back at the best school in the world.   Naviere Walkewicz Yes, it is. And I mean, I think what's so great about your story, Sam, and what's so unique for our listeners is they feel like they know you because you have such an incredible presence. But today, they're really going to get a chance to understand how you got here. And I think that's what's so fascinating for people.   Sam Eckholm Yeah, that means a lot. It's always fun to sit down and kind of talk a little bit more in depth. You know, with the videos I do, I'm trying to focus on highlights and showing some action and keeping the viewer's attention. But this is just kind of laid back.    Naviere Walkewicz  Let's talk and relive some fun, exciting , you know, stories from the Academy and beyond. Yes, this is about you now. So, you get to be the spotlight and I'm really excited to take everyone on this journey. So, let's roll it back a little bit. We'll start with a journey of Sam as a little boy, you know.  I know you shared you kind of grew up in Dallas after third grade. We had a little bit of a chat, but you did some bouncing around before that. Let's hear about your childhood.   Sam Eckholm Yeah, so my dad, an '89 grad, like you said went off to pilot training ended up flying KC-135s. So I was actually born at McConnell Air Force Base, right, and so Wichita, Kansas. Fun fact: little full-circle moment for me, I'm gonna' be headed out there in two weeks to do a KC-46 video with the unit there and first time I'll have been back since I was born. So that'll be really fun to see. But yeah, growing up I mean, I don't consider myself an Air Force brat because my dad did separate when I was young, but we bounced around every two years but Dyess McConnell, it was fun. Definitely have some early memories of him and his flight suit walking out on the flight line. And that probably sparked the initial interest in wanting to serve. I think I shoved that to a side for a little bit until I was a bit more mature and could realize what that actually meant. Kind of around the second or third grade, he got out, transitioned to the airline world settled on American Airlines, and moved to Dallas, Texas. And that's really where I call my home. That's where I grew up. And as you know, Dallas is a super not just for Academy athletes and future cadets. It's just seems like a hot hub, right, for a lot of people move there. So, I had a great experience. When it came time to applying to the Academy I knew I was going to have to have my ducks in a line because it's competitive. There's a lot of people trying to get in. But looking back I mean, I've been all over the world now at this point, but Texas always feels like home.   Naviere Walkewicz I love that you have your roots. So talk about what you were like as a kid. Were you really active in sports? Where are you — you kind of have the social media side, so, are you really interested in some of the dramatic arts? Like, tell me about what that looked like?   Sam Eckholm Yes, sports were always a big part of my family. My dad was actually a basketball player here at the Air Force Academy. My uncle played on the football team as well. So, they were huge athletes. I was always, growing up, I was playing tennis, basketball, golf with my dad, my brothers. I have two other brothers as well. We're all super competitive. Probably, I think what also helped me just realize the Academy was a great school because you know, what other college do you go into where everyone's so competitive and athletic, and sports are built into the curriculum? So yeah, I mean, I would say that was an important part of growing up. My dad especially instilled a lot of values he learned at the Academy in serving. And it's just so cool looking back now, because I didn't realize at the time what those were, and then you go through four years here, you go through five years active duty, and you're like, “OK,” that's why he was the way that he was. When I was actually here at the Academy, I had this mental checklist of stories, he told me, and I will try to like check them off as I also accomplished them. So, you know, his basic training experience, right? Him jumping off the 10-meter board and water survival; him going through survival training and getting some of that experience and jumping out of an airplane. It's really fun for me to experience those as well because those were the stories I had grown up with back home in Texas.   Naviere Walkewicz Wow. So, a house of three boys. Where were you in the lineup?   Sam Eckholm I was a middle child.   Naviere Walkewicz And so did your other brothers want to go to the Academy as well or that wasn't...   Sam Eckholm So my older brother Ben, he originally was interested. In fact, you know, he's only a year and a half older. So, we were only one grade apart. And I remember he went to one of those service academy, congressional just learn more about it, right. And he went with a couple of his buddies, and I think they turned him off from it, because they came back and said, “Oh, I ain't doing that. We're going to Texas A&M. We're gonna' have fun.” But I remember he came back and had this pamphlet he got from it. And I stole it from his bedroom. And then I started looking at it. And I was like, “OK, if he's not going to do that, I think this is something I want to do.” And we can talk more about that, obviously, but my brother did end up going a different route. He went to Texas A&M, not in the core there, just kind of a normal student. Little brother, he's like seven years younger than me. He was always interested in the academies, but you know, as he grew up, I think he navigated a little bit more towards another route as well. So, to answer your question, I was the only one who ended up going into an academy and serving, but they're still incredibly close to me. And I actually have this hilarious photo of my older brother. He came to visit during Parents Weekend. I was like a junior. And during Parents Weekend here at the Academy, my family would actually like stay at the Academy because all the other kids and their parents would go to Boulder, go to Garden of the Gods or the Broadmoor, whatever. And so, the Academy was completely empty. And so, it was kind of like this country club for my family. So, like, we would go down... And then you got like the golf course to yourself. You got these beautiful greens…   Naviere Walkewicz I could see you've got your stretch view…   Sam Eckholm Right, exactly. So, we would go down to like the athletic facilities and play tennis and just hang out and have fun. Anyway, there's this funny photo of my older brother. I gave him my PT uniform, the ringer tee and the shorts. And he like blended in as a cadet for the weekend. And it was really funny one day because retreat played and he was saluting. I'm like, “Well, they're gonna' think you're a cadet.” So, everyone's super close to me and the Academy, and they loved coming to visit. And I think in an alternate world, they would have all tried to come here too. But yeah, very close with the family.   Naviere Walkewicz That is outstanding. We love, hearing about the dynamics of kind of what your support network was like, what those influences were like in your life. You mentioned something about your dad sharing stories. What were those initial nuggets? I know you talked about the experiences they had, but what was he instilling with you and your brothers at that time when you were in those impressionable years?   Sam Eckholm Well, my dad is just one of the most like regimented individuals I know. He's very, very focused, you know. And now looking back, I think I just attribute so much from the Academy, and especially back in the '80s, you know, the way things were run and like how he did it, but you don't know that when you're a kid, right? Like, I heard the stories of the Academy. And I don't know, I think when I was young, I didn't think they were cool. And then as you get a little older, they are kind of cool, but you don't want to tell him they're cool, kind of like shove that in the back of your head. And then now I'm like, “Wow, that was really, really cool.” So yeah, I remember there was this photo we had in our house. I don't know if it was above our piano are just on some dresser and it was him in pilot training and his flight suit standing next to T-38. And I thought that was the coolest thing growing up. I mean, he looked like Tom Cruise from Top Gun. And so I literally to go to my room, I would walk past that every single day. And that photo is just like, I don't know, it's cemented in my mind of, “Wow, that was so cool.” And, you know, at the time, I did think “Hey, I'm going to be a pilot. I'm going to do this,” and learned obviously down the road there's so many opportunities to serve in the Air Force. But yeah, I mean, it was just such a cool thing to be able to say, “My dad went to the Academy. My dad's a pilot,” you know? Other people's parents, whatever they did, you know, still interesting. But to be able to say that was always so cool. I just wanted to be able to experience that, wanted to be able to do something different from my friends in high school, being able to have my dad actually, which I know a lot of applicants don't have someone who served in the Army. I'm trying to change that with the work I do to make everyone feel like they understand what they're getting into. But that was huge for me. And it was fun. I still remember I would text him through every milestone we had at the Academy, whether it was Recognition or Ring Dance or commitment. And he would kind of share where he was back then or a photo he had. And yeah, it was cool.   Naviere Walkewicz That's really beautiful. And, and it makes me think about how we capture now, and I think this might have been, this was happening during your class as well, but we had WebGuy, the WebGuy team actually capturing moments. And so, it's probably neat that he actually sees some of those while you're texting him. And those you know, those listening, the texting ability is not something we had back in the day when I was there. We just had the red phone booth to try to get your like five minutes to call.   Sam Eckholm I can't imagine that.   Naviere Walkewicz Yeah, it's wonderful. I think we preserve so much of the experience for our cadets.   Sam Eckholm Yeah, there's still a bit now where the family almost gets to feel a little bit of that assurance with us. Why are they still writing like letters home?  Pen to paper. Yeah, and you know, stamp. And yeah, WebGuy, I think was my mom's like, saving grace during basic as many moms out there. Yeah, shout out, Mom. I know you liked WebGuy. I always tried to smile when I saw a camera. So, she knew I was I could see how I was doing even though I sometimes was not that I was like, yeah.   Naviere Walkewicz So let's talk about life at the Academy. So, you were direct entry. Were you an intercollegiate recruit or just kind of in and started?   Sam Eckholm No, yeah, I was direct entry. I was very, very fortunate to get the principal nomination from my congressman who did that method out of Dallas. It was an incredibly competitive area. I mean, there were like 60 kids just from my area trying to get in and oh man, I was so stressed going in because I knew how bad I wanted it. I knew I looked great on paper. But the problem was 60 other kids also look really good on paper. So, the interviewer really helped me out there. I was able to talk about family experiences got the principal nomination, so I knew I was going to have my shot. So yeah, direct entry got here. And it's kind of funny because having a dad and uncle who went here, I thought I knew everything right? I had probably watched every single video and read every article, looked at everything on the Academy, I was obsessed. The second I got here, day one or Day Zero as they call it, like the bus ride here.   Naviere Walkewicz Tell me about your experience on the bus.   Sam Eckholm Oh, man, this is a lot different. Well, the bus is, I mean, I knew what was coming. I'd seen every single video, but it hits you different when you're there and they're screaming in your face. The footprints was really rough for me. I've told this story before, because then — I don't know what they do now — but they broke it up by your basic flights and your squadron. So, Cobras is what I was in. And so, all my future flight members were with me and we're on the footprints. And an upperclassman is — [there's a] crazy photo; I can send it to you guys — but just someone screaming at me, right? And I don't know what happened. But I think they lost track of me. So [I'm on the] footprints when the rest of my squadron was sent up the ramp to begin their in-processing, I got sent to the back of the footprints line to kind of do it again.   Naviere Walkewicz Really?   Sam Eckholm Yeah. And so, they did that for a few cadets. So, I got sent to do it again. And the crazy part is I went through that, I got sent a third time. But, and this is like the whole footprint spiel again. The whole “Get on attention.” So, I had like triple the footprints experience and then for the rest of the day because my squadron had already in process, I was so far behind. It was now like, “Are you lost, basic!” Like, I was that guy the whole time in the morning. So, it's just when I finally got there, at the end of the day, like to my squadron, I was already known and had the reputation, like the lost basic. You know it was for next six weeks, which turned into the next year, I was trying to get rid of that reputation that I was the lost basic, but hopefully now I've gotten rid of that.   Naviere Walkewicz All right. We'll leave that one alone. That's a fantastic story. Yeah. Wow. All right. So, let's talk about your life at the Academy. I know where you graduate from Squadron 28, legacy squadron, right? Let's talk about some of your experiences, both from the cadet perspective — athletics, academics, wherever you'd like to take us — but also let's weave in a little bit of some lessons you've learned about yourself during that time in leadership.   Sam Eckholm Yeah, I started out in CES-14 Baby Cobra. I don't know, I think what they're now doing like one and then three years. One and three. Yeah. I always knew that's what I wanted to do. Because like, literally, even when I was growing up, my dad had his A-jacket, and I saw the Blackbirds patch. And that was really cool. But yeah, I mean, my first two years were definitely different from my last two years, I always tell people, the first two years, I was discovering who I was both as a person but as a cadet, right? Like, you come in thinking you're going to do something and have a path and major in this and do this when you graduate. But it was so much information coming at me of here's what you can do, here are all the opportunities. And that's one thing, I'm really proud of myself for that — I didn't feel like I had to follow a certain path. You know, when I came in, I thought I was gonna' fly, I was gonna' be an engineer, I'm gonna' do this. And that's amazing for all the cadets who want to do that and are excited about it. But I knew I was excited about other stuff, too. You know, you mentioned kind of social media photography, that sort of stuff. I had that kind of in the back of my head, I just had to figure out a way how to make that work in the Air Force, right? Because I had no idea when I came in that was something you could kind of do. So the first two years were a lot of discovery, right? I did not, and this was kind of strategically, do any clubs or anything the first two years. I kind of regret that looking back, but I thought I just needed to be in the squadron with my flight. Versus now, I always encourage people at the Academy take advantage of the clubs, take advantage of the extracurricular stuff, because, I mean, you've formed so many friendships there.   Naviere Walkewicz I don't know if you agree, because you did a lot, right? And I definitely agree, I was not a recruited athlete. And so, I think I explored a lot of different lanes. But you know, one of the things that when you were talking, I was thinking about this, because when people see you and hear you now, you just have so much confidence. Did you always have that? Or is there a time when maybe that was not the case as a cadet?   Sam Eckholm Yeah, in high school, you know how it goes, right, you're at the top of the top in high school, especially someone going into the Academy. To go to the Academy., most students are presidents of their classes, or whatever. And so, you go from the top, and then you're dropped very quickly and humbled when you get to the Academy. So, I think I definitely lost a little bit of that. But then I built it back up. And I think that's kind of the goal of the Academy, right? They're trying to build back up leaders; you start as a follower. So, by the time I left, we can get to that, I was a squadron commander of CES-28. And that is, to this day, one of the most rewarding experiences. I learned the most about myself and talk about confidence. Getting up there every morning, talking to over 100 of your peers as their quote-unquote, cadet leader. I mean, that right there to this day, I'm like, if I can do that, and be able to tell other students my age, what they have to be doing, I can do anything.   Naviere Walkewicz Peer leadership is definitely a challenging type of leadership. What did you learn about yourself in that? Can you share a story where you're like, well, am I really cut out for this?   Sam Eckholm Well, it's hard because you have all different types of cadets, all different types of classes. Everyone has their thing that interests them. And let's be real, I mean, you're up here, right? You're not in the real Air Force, yet. You've been appointed this position. And so, some cadets are like, OK, come on. I mean, literally, two weeks ago, he was just, you know, Sam, and now he's like, oh, cadet first class at home squadron commander, cadet lieutenant colonel. So, with the younger classes, it's easier, because the rank structure, they kind of understand, but to your senior class, it's your peers. So, my mentality for that is that I was just going to try to be someone that everyone could relate to, that had everyone's best interest in mind. So, I would take so long for any decision or working with my AOC, just trying to advocate for what everyone wanted. I didn't see myself as higher, better, above anyone. It was just, I'm going to be the spokesperson for everyone. And I'm gonna' work as hard as I can to make sure everyone's happy. And I think there's a lot of lessons you can take from that approach. Of course, not every leadership position, you have the ability to do that. But at the Academy, I don't know, I think that was just a really cool opportunity to kind of explore and find out how that works. And I learned a lot from that. And because I've had opportunities to lead in my Air Force career and beyond, I still pull from those experiences. I'm like, “Well, this would maybe work here.” But yeah, I don't know. Did you have any opportunities to do the leadership stuff, the higher level here? It's so unique, there's nothing else like that.   Naviere Walkewicz No, it really is unique. And I think one of the things that, when our listeners are always looking for are those little nuggets. So you learn so much, you know. What is one takeaway from a pure leadership perspective that you could say, “I've leaned back into multiple times?” What would that be? Putting yourself in other people's shoes is big.   Sam Eckholm It's kind of hard to remember that because you're getting information in from your leader, usually from your leader, right, your boss, they're telling you one thing, it's hard for them to see two layers down how that's going to impact everyone else. So I would always just try to put myself in other people's shoes. “OK, if I do this,  how's that going to make this person feel?” But the other thing is you can never make everyone happy. And I had to come to grips with that. And that's hard for me because I'm the type of person — it like messes me up if I know someone's mad at me or upset or doesn't think I'm doing the right thing. But you learn real quickly, you grow up really quickly and realize that if 90% is good, I mean, that might even be because that might be the best 99 whatever number you want. 15 a year and I'm like, well, this is working. You can't make everyone happy. And I still struggle with that, because you want everyone to be happy, especially with what I'm doing now on social media, when there's millions of people watching what I'm doing, and you look at comments, and you're kinda' like, “Man, I tried so hard on this, and I could have done it differently.” But then if you change it for one person, and someone else isn't gonna' be happy… so thick skin, that's the biggest thing I had to realize I wouldn't be where I am today if I let that bother me. And I remind myself that that's better to be where I am today and have thick skin then be hiding in the corner because I was scared. I couldn't make everyone happy.   Naviere Walkewicz So that is a great lesson. Thank you for sharing that. So, the Academy was great. You had some wonderful leadership experiences. Can you share maybe one of your favorite things about the Academy while you were a cadet?   Sam Eckholm Yeah, well, you asked about clubs. Oh, and I mentioned I didn't do anything really the first two years, which is true. That completely changed. When I switched squadrons, I got super involved, still within the squadron, but also within the Academy. I was on the mock trial team. That was so fun. Gave me an opportunity to travel on the weekends. I ended up being a legal studies major because of that and really enjoyed just everything that came from that. You know, I love talking. I don't know if you knew that I love speaking and talking with other people, communicating. And in mock trial and legal studies, our exams were literally us standing at a podium delivering a fake appellate speech or like you're talking to a judge and that was really cool. And then being able to compete and travel by talking and being a lawyer was fun. And then I also had the opportunity to be on the women's basketball practice team, the scout team. So I was a basketball player in high school, not at the level they play at the Academy. But I was like, “Well, how can I continue doing this?” And so someone, one of my classmates, is like, well, the women's team they look for former high school players to come into rugby, the scout team, run their upcoming opponents' defensive and offensive plays against them. And I tried out for that and made it and that was such a blast. I never knew we do that. And I had a schedule. I was able to go down there — we got the merch, the swag bag. It was fun. So, I tell everyone I was on the women's basketball team. Some kind of laugh, but it was the most amazing opportunity I had. And there's so many things like that at the Academy. By the time I was a firstie — people ask if I had any experience with photography, video, social media while here. One answer I say is “I started the CS 28 Blackbirds Instagram account,” which is still running strong, right? But then I actually worked with my then-physics instructor to start a photography class for the Academy. So as part of the Fine Arts Department, is the first time it was ran. And it was an elective I was able to sign up for when I was a first-year. And yeah, I mean, we literally had like 30 cadets take this course and raised enough money that we were able to get everyone a camera. Our professor, Col. Maddox at the time, she's still in, but she was amazing. She taught us and instructed us because she had her own business doing wedding photography and stuff like that. And that was so cool. I remember going to class, it felt like I was at a normal school. I was taking a photography class. And so that was when I was graduating going into public affairs, as my career, realized that I'm going to keep this up. And it was just cool to be able to do something like that, that you don't think the Academy has. We've got some cool classes that you might not expect.   Naviere Walkewicz No, that's wonderful. And I think our listeners are really excited to hear that too. And before we go on to your career in the Air Force and that transition, I wanted to go back to a little bit about the intercollegiate experience because I think you have a really unique perspective, right? You are not a recruited athlete, but you experienced really diving into the Academy from that aspect. And then you got to have the schedule and understand the rigors of what our intercollegiate athletes experience and you will hear this term: “Teezo Gap.” What's your perspective on that? You know, for people that are just listening, I think that's a fascinating topic that we haven't really explored.   Sam Eckholm Yeah, was a cadet for the first two years not being an intercollegiate athlete, the Teezo Gap, as you mentioned, it's a completely different perspective. And I'll be honest, sometimes you buy into it, you're like, I mean, these athletes are having an easier — they get to go do this and travel and wear civilian clothes as freshmen with their team, you know, miss all the mandatory squadron events and the training sessions and so I'll be honest, you do have some of that perception. Now flashing forward, that completely changed when I got a taste of it. And this was a small taste of it. I mean, I was a scout team player. And it wasn't every day, I had to go down half the week because we had two different teams that did it. But even then, I can't imagine what they have to go through. Because you go down there, your schedule is modified to where you don't have afternoon classes. So, after lunch, you're kind of going down there. And then it is practice meetings, dinner, sometimes meetings again, and then homework, and then rinse and repeat. And at the same time, sure, maybe they're missing some squadron stuff, but you know what, they're not missing anything academically, that's the same. So I have so much appreciation for all of the intercollegiate athletes at the Academy and experiencing that gave me more of an appreciation. And I just, again, it's something you can't fully appreciate until you have done it yourself. But for those students that can be so successful on the field and then still graduate from this. I mean, I know I couldn't do it. I couldn't do it. So, to answer your question, it is something that I think people who aren't aware, or who are listening and you know, might have that perception that it exists. I think we need to work to change that a little bit. Because these people are incredible.   Naviere Walkewicz And again, it's just I mean, you can probably share more. So, you went through that. Like, it's fascinating. I really appreciate you sharing that. Yeah. I think that's a wonderful thing for people to hear. You know, some of the perceptions versus realities. So, let's talk about when you were in the military. So, you graduated the Academy, what AFSC did you get? Yeah, so public affairs?   Sam Eckholm Yes. 35P1. When I was a firstie, I kind of knew I was going to not do the pilot thing. Multiple reasons. People asked me why. Couple: I wasn't even fully medically qualified at the time. I had some color vision stuff. Probably could have gotten a waiver for that eventually. But you know, there was a long process. So that's where I first started to think, “Hey, maybe there's something else I can do, too. I just loved being on the ground talking to people, there was more I wanted to do than just fly. And so, I was trying to find a career field that allowed me to still be around aircraft, still be bebop and buzzing around and doing my thing but also having an impact. So, after my sophomore year, when we went on ops Air Force, I went to Travis Air Force Base and part of that trip, I got to shadow the public affairs career field. And while I was there, I still remember the feeling of like walking through the doors at the PA building, which was right by the wing staff,. They had like a full suite of Apple MacBook computers, airmen on Lightroom and Photoshop and editing videos. The San Francisco 49ers were in town to do a base visit and PA was out there escorting them. I got to interview the commander who was about to PCS and write a story on him. This was all in the span of like three days. And I was like, “What other career field is there where you can do all of this?” It's like kind of a jack-of-all-trades job. And so that visit, I was like, “Wow, this is really, really cool. I want to do this!” Now the next part was like, “Well, how do I do this?” So, I came to find out there was only five slots. Since I've graduated, I've heard some years they have had no slots, some years a couple slots. So, I don't really know how it works anymore. But I would go up to Harmon Hall, literally every day the first semester of my first year, second of my two-degree year, and I would just talk with, then at the time Lt. Col. Allen Herritage, who is the PA director. Now it'd be like, “Sir, how can I learn more about this job?” I was like, “How can you help me? How can you help me get this?” It's all about connections. And regardless of whether or not that actually did help, I know two things are true. I went up there every day and I talked. And then I also got public affairs. So, I just, I worked really hard, though. I mean, I worked so hard in school, and I had a good class ranking. And that definitely helped me and just networking as much as I could to let a FPC know that this is something that I want. So yeah, I dropped public affairs. I was so excited. I remember our squadron put on this awesome AFSC drop release with Nerf guns and blindfold maze stuff. And when I saw that, I was like, “This is gonna' be fun five years, or longer.” Yeah, I didn't know looking back. I mean, you know, we can get into that too. But it's a career field that is fun for life and I'm so glad I got it.   Naviere Walkewicz Wonderful. So let's talk about that. And let's talk about that career field and some of your experiences both from the experience perspective, but maybe where there was some leadership lessons you took as a public affairs officer.   Sam Eckholm Yeah, well, I was kind of thrust right into it. So, I got stationed at Langley Air Force Base. I was, I think the only one from my class, maybe one other who even got sent there. So, it's not like pilot training or a lot. You know, if you got your buddies, it's kind of like a little reunion and you run it back for the next couple years. I was off on my own, so to learn quickly what life was like, to be just Sam as an officer, as a lieutenant, it's like the first week when I was out there we were doing unit PT with my PA shop, running around the base track, which those who have been to Langley, it's a beautiful ride on the coast on the running ground. It's amazing running the flightline. And out of nowhere an F-22 took off just full-burner. But it wasn't a normal takeoff. It started doing maneuvers and rolls and just putting on this spectacle of a show. I mean, my ears were like, “Oh my gosh,” and I turned to my boss at the time. I was like, “What is going on right now?” She's like, “Oh, Sam, that's the F-22 demo team. They travel the air shows around the world just like the Thunderbirds, and they put on shows and help recruit and they actually take one PA person from our office to travel with them each year.” It was at that second I knew that's what I want to do. That right there, is what I want to do. And flash forward a few months, the opening came up. I was completely inexperienced at the time, but I pitched myself and sold myself and the commander at the time, Lt. Col. “Loco” Lopez, who's now out in Hawaii, is the squadron commander for the F-22 unit. And he's been a big inspiration to me. I interviewed with him and I was showing him a YouTube channel. “Look, I can edit, see, like, I can take photos, look at my Instagram.” And he hired me in for the next two years. And every year I was like, “What is real life?” I mean, we were at shows all over the world. I went to Dubai, Singapore, Chile, Hawaii, I mean, Alaska, pretty much every base here in the U.S. got to meet my classmates who were stationed there, got to run all the social media, do all the videos for the team, the coolest jet in the world. It's the F-22 — blew up their social media, just made it my goal to do what I called “no life.” Literally, for two years it's all I did was live, breathe F-22 demo team, and just really wanted to give it my all. And that was so fun. Now to go back to the leadership side of things: Imagine being a butter bar, a second lieutenant now thrust on a team, which has national-media-level attention. I remember I was at a show in Chicago andI just got called in to do an interview because our pilot wasn't available. And I'm literally in front of thousands and thousands of people having to just talk about the Air Force mission and these high-level questions that I was like,”Oh my gosh,” so back to your question of being confident. Like, that's probably where it came from. I just had to learn and had to fake it ‘till I made it. But what a fun experience for a young lieutenant and just something I'll never forget.   Naviere Walkewicz Wow. Well, I think something I took from what you said as well as you identify very quickly, when there's something that you really want to do and you make a path to get there. And I think in your relentless pursuit, in a way that is really convincing. And I think that's a lesson right? You have to put in the work, you obviously can't just only be talk, you have to be able to show like, you can put some cred behind it. And I think that's a lesson where you're able to share with folks, “Hey, if you're really interested in something, go all in for it.” And to your point, “and then live it.” Yeah, do that. soak it all in. So I think that's really inspirational. Were there any tough times you had as a public affairs officer?   Sam Eckholm Tons. PA, it's not always the good side of things, too, right? We really exist for the most part for the crisis communication, right? When something bad happens, to communicate that as well. And so, it doesn't matter if it's the highs or the lows, you still gotta' get out there and talk to people and make things happen. So, luckily, when I was on the team, you know, we didn't have anything catastrophic, any mishaps like that, but I know people who have right I mean, [I've] had mentors, PA world or former Thunderbird PAs when they've had crashes and there's a lot that goes on there. So, we always have to be prepared for that. And even though I didn't have to necessarily be thrust in that environment, that's still on your mind, you just have to be prepared. Now, the other thing was just tough with being in this lifestyle for two years is that when you're constantly gone, so we are TDY I mean, like, literally 300 days a year. And so, it's hard to continue to have the same motivation every single day when it's just the same show, monotonous, like doing everything day in and day out. And I think that's a lesson anyone can learn in the Air Force or beyond, you know, because a lot of the times it, it is repetitive. So, I would always look for ways to make it not repetitive. And for me if we're going to a different show, as a photographer, videographer making content, I would always try to do something different. I would always try to focus in on a different element of the story. So instead of just focusing on the pilot in the jet every time, I would tell behind-the-scenes stories of our maintainers, of our aircrew flight equipment specialists, of the fans who came and traveled across the country to watch and, doing tours with them and I would arrange a ton of school visits and talk to Civil Air Patrol units in JROTC and really just focus on the community relations and the recruiting side of things. And there's a lot I had to work with and that was really fun for me to mix and match and that was the way I just stayed motivated and still had fun with it. And even to this day, I'm always trying to one-up the last thing I did and branch out and evolve and just make everything interesting. And I think the viewers kind of understand that and appreciate it. And that's always my goal is for no one to ever click on a video of mine or see what I'm doing and be like, “Oh, that's kind of the same thing.” I want it to always be exciting.   Naviere Walkewicz I can absolutely appreciate that. And it seems like that kind of pace is, I mean, how do you maintain that? So maybe my question would be for you, Sam, what is your outlet? Because if you live, breathe as a leader, right, if you you expect a lot from your people, and you always want the best and you want something new, how do you maintain that level of give? And so, what's your outlet?   Sam Eckholm Yeah, well, kind of the first part of what you asked, I also had to realize that just because I'm this way doesn't mean everyone's this way, right? So, if you're a leader, and you are 100% committed and want it to be your entire life, that doesn't mean everyone's going to be that way. And I had to realize that because at times that can be frustrating, if you're leading a team and you're gung-ho about it, but like, OK, maybe they aren't, well, that's OK, you know, you need to, again, put yourself in their shoes and see what motivates them. And I learned that lesson as well, even back to when I was a squadron commander, I'd pitch an idea and I was so excited. And I can tell him that everyone's [not] gonna' be as excited as you, Sam. But yeah, my outlet, I mean, a lot of different stuff at the time, you know, I was just so excited about doing what I was doing. So as weird as it sounds, my outlet was my work. And that's something not everyone understands. But I actually felt depressed if I wasn't continuing to work, because I knew there was a time limit on how long I would have this opportunity. So, I was like, “Well, I'm going to keep working hard now.” And as I've moved on, I have found a healthy balance between work and other things. So, you know, friendships are incredibly important, especially other people in the space with what I'm doing, being able to talk with them and how they are handling stress levels. Because not everyone can relate especially to what I was doing and am doing. So other people in the space, in the industry, we're all dealing with the same things. So that's something I tell people all the time is, “Other people who are in your world — those are some awesome friendships you can have, because they understand what you're going through. Not everyone does.” That's a classic example of when people talk about the Academy, you go home on a winter break, none of your friends understand what you're going through. It's really, really hard, you know? Who does? Your classmates at the Academy. You go through that with them. And so that has been a huge thing for me: other people who have gone through what I have, like, we're in it together. And those are some times when I really feel like I can sit back, relax, and the stress is taken off.   Naviere Walkewicz Now that's really helpful. And I think I did chuckle in my head a little bit when you said, you know, “Actually, my outlet is my work.” But I think when you're doing your thing that you're wired to do and your passion, that makes sense.   Sam Eckholm Yeah, it's both fulfilling and exhausting. I mean, I love to travel to like, I do normal things as well. But in some way, even then I battled the whole, like, well, what can I be doing, especially when you're a full-time, have your own company entrepreneur. That was a huge adjustment for me. Because it's not like you have a salary job where there is some end at some point to kind of go home. It's like, well, you could always be doing more, right? You could always be working. And I've had to struggle with that sometimes, because it's like, I could keep working, keep working. So that's something I've learned and doing better at still to this day. But yeah, it's interesting.   Naviere Walkewicz So, let's talk about that transition. You know, you knew there was a time period on that F-22 demo team, and the PA role. But when did, you know, “I think I'm going to be moving out of this into my own kind of work.”   Sam Eckholm Yeah, so once I finished the F-22 team, I had to move on with my career. They don't let you do something in the Air Force forever, totally understood that. But I wasn't done personally inspiring, making content. I had developed kind of a following along the way of people who were just interested in what I was doing. So, I would kind of take my free time. I always made it my goal — I was like, I'm going to stay focused on the PA job. I never want anyone to be able to look at lieutenant at home and be like, “He's not locked in on this PA job. He's not focused. He's interested in these other things.” So, I would make that my goal. But my free time, my leave, my time on the weekends, instead of normal hobbies people do, I would make videos. That was my thing. And so, my next assignment, I went to Scott Air Force Base, I was 375 Air Mobility Wing, and that was a demanding and fun job. And I kind of still had this thing going on the side. It got up to the point where it's at the end of my Academy commitment, and I had a tough decision to make, right? I loved being in the Air Force. I was a captain at the time. I was excited. But as you rank up, you get more responsibilities, understandably, and I knew that I did not want to let that lack if I was going to stay in the Air Force. I did not want my airmen — I did not want people to think I was distracted doing something else. But I loved this other thing as well. So really, what I had to decide is, “Where am I having the biggest impact in the Air Force?” And as weird as it sounds, right, because you think of serving — most of the time people think like, in uniform active duty. Well, I think of service in many different ways, right. And I actually felt, and I know this is true, that I could serve the Air Force, the military, our country, better on the outside, continuing to inspire people by doing these videos, making this content, showing people what life was like, inspiring all these kids on the outside, being able to go at that with 100% of my time. And luckily, that wasn't just a personal decision I made. I was having conversation with like, the highest levels of leaders in Air Force recruiting and public affairs explaining this as well. And that's just what I decided I wanted to do. And it was scary. It's very scary going from a job, one that I had worked since I was a freshman in high school to get to in the Air Force, to now kind of giving that up to do this other thing. But we're really helping the viewers, it wasn't giving it up to me, it was just doing it in a different way. I would say I'm still connected now more than I was even when I'm in with what I'm doing. I'm not in uniform, you know, I don't have my CAT card anymore. But I am serving more than I ever thought I would be around the units traveling to bases every single week filming what I'm doing. So that's kind of what helped me make that decision. And it was the right decision. And to this day, the comments I see from kids, the people I've been able to help and resonate with, it's crazy. And it's something that probably wouldn't have been able to happen if I stayed in just with the amount of you know, stuff I would have had to do on the normal job side. Right?   Naviere Walkewicz Wow. So, you talked about impact. And that was really important to you. What's one of years or maybe a couple of your most favorite, impactful moments that you've had since moving into the entrepreneurial side of things?   Sam Eckholm Yeah, I mean, it's hard sometimes when you're like a video creator, because what you see is numbers on a screen, right? You see views, you see comments, which can be really inspiring too. But sometimes, you know, you miss the in-person interactions because you're traveling and it's the videos people see. But I always, even to this day, a couple times a year, I do like in-person events, I just went out to an airshow and was in San Antonio and I did a couple of these previous years. And it's a different feeling when you're out there. And there's tens, dozens of people, who are like literally waiting in line just to say hi, to take a photo to tell me that like, hey, these videos are the reason they want to join or have joined or have inspired them. It's crazy. And that to me keeps me going. And that was so, so impactful. And you know, I have a folder on my computer. On my phone I have like screenshots of all the messages I've gotten, because when I'm having a hard day or when I'm like, “Man, this is tough,” I can look back at those and be like, “Well, this is why it's all worth it. And this is why I do the things that I do.” And yeah, it's cool being a creator who's not just in it for themselves. And I try to tell people that really what I'm doing is to inspire other people. It's tough. It probably looks really cool when you see all the things I'm doing. And that is fun. But it is a lot. But I know the impact that's possible. I remember when I was a freshman in high school looking for content online, and there wasn't too much of it. And I wanted to change that. And I know Naviere, we've worked so much together and you've seen the stuff I've done and you know how much it means to me. So just being able to see and hear from people, it means everything.   Naviere Walkewicz Yeah, so what's your, is there a story, a video that you've done that just, it just kind of sits right into your heart like this one is just so special? I mean, we probably have so many, but is there one that you just feel has really resonated with, you know, youth or just that level of impact? Is there one you can speak to?   Sam Eckholm Yeah, well, I'll give, I'll give kind of two. So, one that is incredibly special to me in a personal way. I actually got to go back and do a video on the KC-135 and I brought my dad out there for that. Yeah, that was something I always wanted to do. And he's great. I was a little nervous. I was like, “How is he going to be on camera?” But he knocked it out of the park to the point where some comments were like, “He needs to come to every video like that. You need to take over the channel at this point. Everyone loves you so much.” But it was so fun. I mean, he studied for weeks on the facts of the aircraft. He was an instructor for the instructors at the schoolhouse. It took him a few minutes, but literally after half an hour, he knew his way around that aircraft so well and was teaching the current pilots out there some things that they didn't know. Anyway, so I look back — that video is like a full-circle moment for me. And that resonated with a lot of people too, who just enjoyed seeing my inspiration and have some people who look at me as their inspiration. Like it's just really, really cool to see outside of that. I mean, I would say a really personal project of mine was when I actually got to come out here to the Academy and do a complete tour of the grounds and the campus and facilities. With the audience I've been able to build, a lot of people know me as an Academy grad. And so they reached out asking me questions about the Air Force Academy. “What it's like to apply?” How they can get in. And it's hard to answer all of those questions because that's all I'd be doing if I did it. So, I was like, “Well, what's a way I can put this message out to everyone?” And so, you know, I worked with your team, worked with the Academy team, and we came out here for a week and filmed what I think is the most beautiful school ever. And I just wanted to show that and that video to this day is, I don't know, 1.2-something million views. And you go scroll through those comments, the amount of people who didn't know it exists — which probably sounds crazy to us, right? — that now know and can see all of these cool things you would have access to and can do if you're cadet, I mean, I think that video is going to have returns and just inspire people for years to come. That was such a big project I wanted to do to get back to my school and to show other people, “This school did this for me. You guys need to understand what it can do for you, too.” So, I'm really proud of that one. I have a lot of people reaching out to me about that still to this day. Every single week, you know, “Hey, Sam, I want to go here. I watched this video. How can I do it?” And I'm like, “Alright, well, let's talk. Here's what you need to start doing. You need to do this.”   Naviere Walkewicz I love that. So, it's really unique, your journey, right? Because you have been a leader of peers, of people, of airmen, etc. You've also been, I think, a leader of yourself, and you know, in part of how you navigate that. One of the ways I think our listeners really feel connected with our guests is, you know, life is pretty imperfect. What are some challenges you've experienced along the way in your life, just in your professional and personal life, that you have has felt as evolved you as an influencer as a leader, as someone who inspires you to share any with a group that makes them feel like, okay, Sam, I'm in? You know, I'm kind of like, Sam, you know, in some way, what would that be?   Sam Eckholm Yeah, I mean, like I said, it's one of the things I sometimes struggle with when you have an online presence is you kind of gravitate towards only showing the highlights. And that's just how the business works, right? I mean, I don't want to be putting out negative content all day. But then, you know, you're right. I mean, some people kind of see like, “Oh, everything seems to be going well.” I mean, that's not the case. Absolutely not, especially with what I was doing. There's a reason it's very hard to get into this space, especially being in the Air Force. I made some decisions that some might have said would hurt my career, right? Even going back to the demo team, that was a job that typically you don't do as a lieutenant, right. And I was told, “Hey, this might hurt your career going forward.” But I also knew that this was something I wanted to do. And I had goals in mind. And I was young and I just hated the idea that a decision I made when I was 23 years old would ruin my career. I was like, “There's no way that can be true. I'm so young, I've got so much opportunity.” And so, I'm glad I kind of listened to myself. And that was a big decision. But even along the way, making videos while being in the Air Force, I was writing the rules, because there weren't regulations for what you can and can't do. And I was having a lot of tough conversations with people. I'm like, “I'm trying to do the right thing here. You guys gotta help me, I see a lot of potential in this.” So that kind of lesson can be applied to, I think, anyone. A lot of people, I feel, want to do certain things or have dreams and goals. And neither one get talked out of it. To talk themselves out of it. Three, you just look at the negatives, and it gets in your head. And it makes it hard for people to kind of pull the trigger and do it. And I completely understand that. “Comfortable rut” — I kind of use that phrase — you get comfortable in thing and it's hard to break away from that. And so, I don't know, for me, that's the biggest advice I give people: If you have an end goal in mind, it's not going to be easy to get there. If it was easy, everyone would be doing it, right? I mean, especially being an entrepreneur. It's hard, it's a gamble, it's a risk. And you've got to prepare yourself. I never say, “Hey, just go take this without any plan or backup plan.” And I always had that in place. But you know, I guess I kind of am a risk taker in some world. And I know I have good intentions at heart. And I know what I'm trying to do. And I think that was really important is just having the backup plans, having a good background, having things set in place to where I'm able to do this and — I don't know, coming across as a good person has been huge. So, people hopefully watch my stuff and, like, “Sam's good. He's doing the right thing.”   Naviere Walkewicz So, I don't know, it's hard. If you have any specific advice on that, because you've done so much. But when people look at your stuff, hopefully you can kind of resonate and don't think it's all good all the time. But I think you'll come across as very approachable. I think it's lovely for them to hear in your own words some of the struggles that you have when you're thinking about your content when you're thinking about the delivery of it. They maybe don't get that glimpse, right? They just see the final product. I think it's good for listeners to hear that you've kind of had to advocate for yourself, trust in yourself. And I think you've shown a path of what belief and grit and, going back to your core of, “My intention is to create meaningful impact and do great things for our Air Force and for the future leaders,” right? I think you can always hang your hat on that with pride.   Sam Eckholm Yeah, and I always tell people like what you see as a finished polished video — like, the behind the scenes is crazy. It's like, cameras everywhere, months and months of coordination for the shots and for these approvals. We plan videos — like I'm planning now that you will see six months from now. That's how long it takes. And things change. When I first started out, and it was fun, it was a hobby, it was just what I was doing. And then now when it becomes like, a full-time job, and you have a team now I've got employees who rely on me, like things kind of changed with that. And, you know, definitely the advocating for yourself is something that sometimes hard to do. But it's, it's necessary. And so yeah, it's a lot of lessons I've learned, and I'm still learning. But I'm not going anywhere. I'm gonna' keep going hard.     Naviere Walkewicz So, love that. So, your dad and uncle were inspirations to kind of get you into the profession of arms, the Air Force Academy, who inspires you now? Do you listen to any particular leaders? Are there books you read when you have time? You know, what, what kind of fills your inspiration bucket, Sam?   Sam Eckholm Yeah. You know, it's crazy. It sounds, there's not necessarily like a, like a one specific person who inspires me. And that's just because I try to consume so much different stuff and take the best from all of those. So yeah, I'm constantly learning, right? If I'm not creating content, I'm watching other content for inspiration, listening to a ton of podcasts, like this one here. So yeah, there's so much we can take from different people and different leaders. It is hard a little bit in my case to find someone who's exactly done what I've done. But there's a lot of people who have done other things and kind of made it, like Col. Kim Campbell, I've been listening to her actually, like what she's been doing with her Air Force career and then afterward and like, I've actually never met her.     Naviere Walkewicz You feel like you've met her, right?   Sam Eckholm I actually tried to. Same thing with Michelle Karen-Mace. You know, she's not Academy grad, but she's all over the world. And we did similar things in our careers. And so, she's been awesome to talk to as well, in pretty much any Academy grad. And that's something that I really enjoy. Being a member of the Long Blue Line, we come from the same roots. And everyone's very intelligent and understands things. And I've just been able to have so much support with what I've been doing through the grad network, especially when I go out to different bases and units like grads, like, “Hey, Sam, what's up? I'd love to work with you.” And that's been really cool. So, yeah, I mean, a ton of different inspiration from a lot of different people. And, you know, hopefully, I can eventually be that inspiration for someone else who wants to do something similar to what I'm doing. That's exciting to draw inspiration not just from people, but experiences. And what you see, just you're constantly looking for, yes, kind of pieces.   Naviere Walkewicz That's pretty special. So, you know, let's talk about right now what is, you know, how are you in support of the Academy through what you're doing? Maybe kind of share with our listeners what that looks like.     Sam Eckholm I'm always trying to further the Academy mission with literally every video I produce. I'm always doing something else. So I had the awesome opportunity to partner with Air Force recruiting and we did a six-video series exploring different aircraft, different career fields, — one of my favorite videos we did is actually went down and experienced Air Force Special Tactics officer training for a week in Hurlburt. And I was literally hands and feet behind my back bobbing through the pool like going through selection that normal people train for years for, I had like a week of advance to go out there and do that. So I tried to put myself in uncomfortable situations to show other people what that's like. It was extremely brutal. And I think there's more of that coming down the road as well. As you know, one of the huge goals was to give back to people trying to go to the Academy and honestly level the playing field in my mind with people who maybe don't have graduates or parents who went to the Academy and worked extremely hard work with you guys on the Air Force Academy blueprint program to just have a resource out there where anyone can navigate the Academy application can know what they need to be doing in high school, and to know what to expect once they actually get to the Academy too, and that's been incredibly successful. I mean, we have over 300 atudents enrolled — over two dozen who've been accepted this past class.   Naviere Walkewicz I was going to ask: Have you seen any of those come through?   Sam Eckholm Yeah, we have. Well, this will be the first year. so they haven't entered yet because we launched last August, right? So yeah, I'm excited. There will be a little mafia of Blueprint students here at the Academy as well. And like I said, that was something — you get so man

“Most people will tell you, even myself at one time, ‘I don't like sales.' But any business that you do is going to be rooted in sales. Understanding that process is so important… talking about investments or talking about how someone's looking to invest their money, and it's still sales at the end of the day.” –Justin Loutfy, USAFA '16 Justin Loutfy is an investor, author, speaker, and self-proclaimed “Girl Dad” to his two young daughters. He is the managing partner of Onyx Peak Capital, a real estate and investing firm. In addition to his real estate ventures, Justin runs the DadVesters podcast and a YouTube channel where he shares his knowledge and experiences in real estate and investing. He aims to educate and inspire others to achieve financial freedom through investing. Before founding Onyx Peak Capital, Justin was the chief operating officer for Cherokee Wood Products. He was also an operations manager for Amazon and a fund analyst at Lion Creek Capital, LLC. In addition, Justin served as a special warfare officer/joint terminal attack controller (JTAC) for the U.S. Air Force. In this episode, we discuss: Justin's journey from military service to 9-5 jobs to entrepreneurship in real estate investing. The rapid learning curve Justin experienced in his first year of entrepreneurship, trying various business models including wholesaling real estate and exploring teaching courses. Advice for aspiring entrepreneurs, including the value of practical experience in sales over a traditional business education. Justin's innovative debt validation fund that provides a 20% return to investors while helping people get out of debt for half of what they originally owed. Justin's short-term goal of raising $50 million for his debt validation fund to help 25,000 people get out of debt. Justin's podcast "DadVestors," where he explores the intersection of parenting and investing. Justin Loutfy's journey from U.S. Air Force special warfare officer to successful investor illustrates the power of diverse experiences in shaping innovative business ventures. After 9-5 roles in operations at Amazon and Cherokee Wood Products, Justin transitioned to entrepreneurship, exploring various business models including real estate wholesaling and course teaching. This period of experimentation led him to found Onyx Peak Capital, a real estate and investing firm where is managing partner. One of Justin's standout ventures is his debt validation fund, which offers a 20% return for investors while helping individuals reduce their debt by half. With an ambitious goal to raise $50 million, the fund aims to help 25,000 people overcome debt. This innovative approach exemplifies Justin's ability to create solutions that benefit both investors and the broader community. Beyond his investing activities, Justin is dedicated to education and sharing his knowledge. He runs a YouTube channel focused on real estate investing and hosts the "DadVestors" podcast, exploring the intersection of parenting and investing. As a self-proclaimed "Girl Dad" to two young daughters, Justin's story demonstrates how embracing diverse experiences, rapid learning, and innovative problem-solving can lead to entrepreneurial success while maintaining a focus on family and community impact. Connect with Justin Loutfy: LinkedIn Instagram Facebook YouTube https://www.onyxpeakcapital.com/ justinloutfy@gmail.com If you found this episode valuable, please share it with a friend or colleague. If you are a Service Academy graduate and want to take your business to the next level, you can join our supportive community and get started today. Subscribe and help out the show: Subscribe on Apple Podcasts & Spotify Leave us a 5-star review! Special thanks to Justin for joining me this week. Until next time! -Scott Mackes, USNA '01

Colonel Matt Horner, Ph.D., is the Director of Staff of the Dean of Faculty and was recently nominated for the role of Permanent Professor for Character and Leadership Development at USAFA. He has served in multiple administrative and instructor roles in the Directorate of Athletics and is an Assistant Professor of Management, teaching courses on organizational dynamics and leadership. He is a graduate of the United States Air Force Academy and served as a mobility pilot on active duty. He received his doctorate in sport management from Florida State University. Lt Col Matt Orlowsky, Ph.D. is an Assistant Professor of Management and teaches courses on organizational dynamics and leadership.  He is a graduate of USAFA and served as a force support officer on active duty.  As a human resource professional, he has held responsibilities at tactical, operational, and strategic levels and has held assignments all over the globe, including the United States, Korea, Germany, Iraq, and Qatar. His doctorate is from the University of Denver, and he explored how leaders translate experiences into insights.  Daphne DePorres, Ed.D., is an assistant professor at the United States Air Force Academy (USAFA), where she teaches organizational behavior and organizational development, as well as a management consulting capstone course. In addition, she has over thirty years of experience in Organization Development and Change. Before her academic career, she spent nearly a decade consulting with large and small, for-profit and not-for-profit organizations, working with them as they developed strategies, pursued organizational goals, analyzed and changed their cultures, and developed effective teams. Dr. Dave Levy is a Professor of Management at USAFA and teaches courses on leadership, power, organization development, and change. He is a USAFA graduate and served as a security forces officer on active duty. After leaving the military, he worked as an organizational change consultant for Grant-Thornton and KPMG. He received his doctorate in organizational behavior from Cornell University and is the author of several books, including The 52nd Floor: Thinking Deeply About Leadership, Attitudes Aren't Free: Thinking Deeply About Diversity in the US Armed Forces, Echoes of Mind: Thinking Deeply About Humanship, Evolution of Government Policy Towards Homosexuality in the US Military, and The Line: A Very Short, Short Story. A Quote From This Episode"Every interaction is an opportunity to go ahead and fulfill the needs of agency, efficacy, and belonging."Resources Mentioned in This EpisodeArticle: Lens X: A Practical Approach to Taking Care of Your PeopleLinks to other resources in the transcriptAbout The International Leadership Association (ILA)The ILA was created in 1999 to bring together professionals interested in studying, practicing, and teaching leadership. Register for ILA's 26th Global Conference in Chicago, IL - November 7-10, 2024.About  Scott J. AllenWebsiteWeekly Newsletter: The Leader's EdgeMy Approach to HostingThe views of my guests do not constitute "truth." Nor do they reflect my personal views in some instances. However, they are views to consider, and I hope they help you clarify your perspective. Nothing can replace your reflection, research, and exploration of the topic.

Show Notes OCF MINISTRY NEWS  OCF purchased a new staff home at Spring Canyon: To contribute to OCF's purchase of this house, make an online donation to the Refreshing the Canyon Fund.   OCF is expanding efforts in ROTC ministry with a new job opening at The Citadel: To learn more about the Council's approval of this opportunity and/or find the link to apply, click here.  July marks the halfway point of OCF's conference center ministry: Visit our conference center webpage to learn more about programs and opportunities available later this summer and fall.   The AMCF World Conference 2024 in Brazil is coming up: This transformative opportunity to connect with other military communities around the world is scheduled for 16-20 October. Click here to learn more and register. Can't attend? Donate to this fund that will provide financial scholarships to other attendees.  OCF small group spotlight: OCF Field Staffer Paul Homan shared one of several questions posed during the OCF at USAFA spring retreat and spiritual commissioning. What's your small group studying? What questions are you wrestling with? Let Courtney know by emailing her at courtney.taylor@ocfusa.org.  ASK OCF  CH(COL) Douglas H. Ball, USA answered the FAQ: What are the challenges that our Christian Military Chaplains are facing? His three-part answer mentions busy schedules, role expansion, and cultural change.  Interested in learning more about resources for chaplains and ways to support your chaplains? Check out Chapter 17 of the OCF Handbook.   If you have a question that you want us to consider for a future “Ask OCF” segment, send an email to podcast@ocfusa.org.  GUEST SPOTLIGHT  This month, Josh sat down with Brig Gen Jeff H. Hurlbert, USAF (Ret.), who retired from the Air Force in 2023 after 32 years of service. He's currently the chief security officer for Applied Materials, a global leader in the semiconductor, display, and solar panel industries.   Jeff is also a longtime OCF member and current member of the OCF Council. This month, Jeff is speaking at Spring Canyon during the sixth week of Summer Celebration on the topic of humility, and he discusses that same topic here in today's episode of Crosspoint.   Inspired by an OCF Bible study he participated in 15 years ago in Germany and having seen the impact of humility in his own life and career, Jeff addresses several questions such as why humility matters to the military leader, what it is and what it isn't, and more.  If you would like to share your own story, complete the form on OCF's “Be a Guest” webpage. Alternatively, if you have an idea for a guest or topic we should consider for a future episode of the show, send an email to podcast@ocfusa.org.  POINTS TO PONDER  As you listen to this conversation with Jeff, here are a few questions to ponder in your personal time, with a small group, or with a mentor:  How would you define humility?  What's a personal example of humility making a difference, whether you were the one displaying humility or observing someone observing humility?  How does Christ's example encourage you to lead and live humbly?  What gifts has God given you that you can use to serve others for His glory? 

Blake Dailey is an Air Force Veteran turned entrepreneur and real estate investor. Blake attended the USAFA from 2015-2018 where he played football as a middle linebacker. Early in his Air Force career as a Contracting Officer, Blake started investing in real estate with a single Airbnb unit and has, over the last five years, scaled his business to operate in four states with a team of 30 employees, both virtual and domestic. He now manages over 150 short-term rental (STR) listings, generating an annual income of $3 million. Blake shares his expertise on growing and scaling STR businesses to earn passive income and offers investment opportunities for passive investors seeking similar success. Connect with Blake: Website: https://blakedailey.com/ YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@BlakeDailey IG: https://www.instagram.com/blakejdailey/ Other Resources: https://www.bestplaces.net/ --- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/militarybottomline/support

Rundown -    Intro - 00:35   Sean Camacho in Craig's Lawyers' Lounge - 10:48   Trisha Calvarese - 42:31   Craig Discusses Dan Caplis Going Wild - 01:12:10   Troubadour Dave Gunders - 01:31:22   "Chop Wood Carry Water" by Dave Gunders - 01:37:06   Outro - 01:44:34   Sean Camacho stars in Craig's Lawyers' Lounge. Born and raised in Colorado Springs, Camacho lives with his wife and two kids in the Lowry part of Denver and is running for statehouse against incumbent Democrat Elizabeth Epps. https://www.camachoforcolorado.com/   An attorney for Dentons, the world's biggest law firm, Sean David Gonzales Camacho attended the Air Force Academy before law school. He's a Lieutenant Colonel in the USAFA and his leadership skills are obvious. https://www.dentons.com/en/sean-camacho   Delve into the motivations of this emerging Democratic leader, Sean Camacho. The podcast dissects threats to our Rule of Law, the Supreme Court scandals and their far-reaching recent rulings, a topic of immense importance in the current political landscape. https://www.camachoforcolorado.com/   The unexpected overturning of Roe v Wade in the Dobbs case and the potential for even more severe cases in the future, particularly if Trump is re-elected, are thoroughly discussed. The fight against fascism is a key focus of the conversation, keeping the audience informed and engaged.   Fighting fascism extends to Trisha Calvarese's return visit. The star of Episode 205 returns to brag about her May 22, 2024, beatdown of Greg Lopez in a debate held on the Dan Caplis Show. Trisha dishes on the race so far, her opponents Lopez and Boebert, and the awful rulings by the Trump Supreme Court.   When the Democrats gain big momentum based on mass MAGA rejection, won't Trisha make it close in CO CD4? We wonder why Kyle Clark won't entertain a Calvarese v Boebert (Lopez) debate when the stakes are so high on June 25, 2024, when Colorado will have a new person in Congress to replace Ken Buck. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wjezs0Mdteo   Given the discussion of Caplis with Trisha, hear Caplis proclaiming that President Biden will still drop out. Further, Caplis proclaims the existence of spirits from past relatives and the Deep State that are rigging everything against Trump. What can be done to stop all abortions? Apparently, anything, including propaganda. We analyze.   Show Troubadour Dave Gunders supplies a song about a working man and a love that went way wrong. "Chop Wood Carry Water" tells the story of a man who got radicalized while following his passion. Current events reviewed. Lessons learned get discussed.  https://soundcloud.com/dave-gunders/chop-wood-carry-water

This episode you meet Randy McPeak. He shares his interesting story of how he grew up in S. Illinois, survived USAFA, became a USAF T-38 and B-52 pilot, and transitioned to US Air and commercial flying while in the USAFR. After "flunking" retirement from American Airlines he now repositions aircraft all over the world leading to very interesting photos in his FB feed.

This episode you meet "Wild Bill" Stealey, Class of 1970, AFA lacrosse defender, IP & C-5 pilot, Wharton MBA, Management Consultant, President & CEO of successful video game companies... and grandpa. You will figure out on your own why John Wilbur Stealey got the call sign "Wild Bill." Also he shares his USAFA days which shows how the zoo experience was in the early days as the New Dorm was being constructed. One of the key people "Wild Bill" mentions is the video game creator Sid Meyer of Civilization fame (at least famous to me, this old peddler of parts to the X-Box teams at Microsoft)

  Hey team! Before we dive in, I've got some exciting announcements: 1) Join us on August 8th NJ for an exclusive Advanced Real Estate Investing Workshop & Networking Event at the prestigious Park Avenue Club in Florham Park, NJ.  This premier event is crafted to elevate your real estate investing skills with institutional-level analysis. Whether you're a private investor, a commercial real estate operator, or work in the commercial real estate industry, this is your chance to expand your network and learn from the best. Space is limited, so don't miss out!  Register here: https://www.10xvets.com/advanced-real-estate-workshop 2) On October 1st we're heading to Charleston, SC for an incredible retreat. We'll kick off with a business mastermind session at the Harbour Club in downtown Charleston. Later, we'll set sail on a harbor cruise and enjoy a fantastic dinner together. On October 2nd, get ready for an exciting inshore fishing tournament with a fleet of fishing boats. It's going to be an unforgettable experience and an opportunity to surround yourself with like-minded successful veterans who are pushing each other to greatness.  Register here: https://www.10xvets.com/charleston-event To learn more and register for these events, visit 10xvets.com/events. Hope to see you there! Today's Podcast: “We aspire to be way more than just a check… we want to be supportive capital and we want to help our veteran entrepreneurs scale their companies.” -Joshua Weed, USAFA ‘01 Joshua Weed is a Partner and Senior Director at Veteran Ventures Capital and a member of the Fund's investment committee. Veteran Ventures Capital is a veteran-owned growth equity and venture capital firm specializing in making private investments into veteran-owned, post-revenue companies, primarily with a defense focus and superior dual-use technology. A 2001 graduate of the United States Air Force Academy, Joshua is a former Air Force Financial Management Officer and currently serves as a Lieutenant Colonel in the Air Force Reserves. Connect with Joshua: LinkedIn www.veteranventures.us josh@veteranventures.us  Special thanks to Josh for joining me this week. Until next time! Are you a real estate investor in need of financing for your next investment property? The Academy Fund has you covered! Whether you're working on “fix-and-flip” projects, land development, or new construction, we are your reliable financial partner. Our mission is to bridge the gaps often left by conventional banking institutions, making sure your real estate dreams become reality. And for accredited investors looking to earn passive income while supporting military veteran real estate investors, the Academy Fund is the perfect opportunity. Our loans are powered by capital from investors like you, who receive monthly distributions as the loans are repaid. To learn more, visit AcademyFund.com. Thank you for listening to today's podcast.  Enjoy the rest of your day and remember to dream big and take bold action!

USAFA Class of 2010 valedictorian, Maj. Austin McKinney, discusses how the trust he earned and integrity he learned as a cadet led him to the U.S. Department of State where he helps build relationships between U.S. and global leaders.----more---- SUMMARY Maj. Austin McKinney '10 shares his journey from the Air Force Academy to becoming a Foreign Service Officer with the State Department. He emphasizes the importance of public service, teamwork, and never accepting the first no. McKinney highlights the value of the Academy's wide core curriculum and the opportunities it provides for personal and professional growth. He also discusses the significance of integrity and reputation in leadership and the need to adapt to the changing perspectives and interests of the younger generation. McKinney encourages others to consider the reserves as a way to stay connected to the military and emphasizes the importance of convincing young people of the value of joining the military and the Academy. The conversation explores the importance of storytelling in leadership and the value of being ready to say yes. It emphasizes the need to listen actively and understand the core similarities that unite people across different cultures. The conversation also highlights the challenge of transitioning from a tactical leader to a strategic leader and the importance of building relationships and networks. The key takeaways include the significance of delegation, the need for personal board of advisors, and the importance of being part of a supportive community.   OUR FAVORITE QUOTES "Part of leadership is process. But part of leadership is relationships." "Leadership by walking around is talking to people and developing those relationships, not sitting in your office and just working on the next memo, or the next email." "Never never accept the first no." "Always be ready to say yes." "We're (USAFA grads) part of a special community and always be contributing two is what I would encourage us all to think about it."   SHARE THIS EPISODE FACEBOOK  |  LINKEDIN  |  

Matthew Ciccarello is retired Air Force. He did 21 years of active duty, which included flying tankers, U-28's, C-27's and more. Aside from being in the Air Force, Ciccarello also wrestled for the USAFA. He began his career at St. Edward's High School in Ohio before joining the Air Force. Ciccarello went on to become a 2x NCAA qualifier and was part of the first Air Force team to win an outright WAC championship in 1991. Ciccarello also coached at Air Force and was an amazing mentor to a lot of young men and women. Now residing in Hurlburt Field, Florida, Ciccarello flies for United, works on his tan on the beach and still gives Chris Szabolcs a hard time. So please, sit back, relax and enjoy, Retired Lt.Col. Matthew Ciccarello! Euphoria Coffee website: https://www.drinkeuphoriacoffee2go.com/ Let's Talk Wrestling website: https://letstalkwrestlingpodcast.my.canva.site/ Registration is open for the Granby Wrestling Camp in Belle Plaine, IA. The camp is from June 24th-26th and is hosted by The Granby School of Wrestling. All the information, including registration and event details are listed in the show notes or head to granbyschool.com. Remember: Summer wrestling makes winter champs! Granby School of Wrestling registration: http://www.granbyschool.com/shop/product/326989 Granby School of Wrestling Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/events/2525819390924322/?ti=ls --- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/lets-talk-wrestling/support

Kevin Chilton grew up in So Cal near LAX and loved watching the planes come and go in his neighborhood. Some interesting events and people got him to USAFA where he excelled in academics but also got to know the tour pad. Upon graduation Kevin headed off to Columbia for his Master's in Mech Eng followed by UPT, RF-4 flying in Kadena which evolved to F-15's which led to Test Pilot school at Edwards, Eglin and eventually Houston and the NASA astronaut program. Three Shuttle rides in the 90's were followed by a return to the USAF where he had numerous interesting assignments including Commander of the Space Command at Offut. Kevin has some great stories and wisdom to share. You will enjoy this one. Oh, and he never accomplished his original goal of becoming an airline pilot but it appears things worked out anyway.

Today's episode pulls together a few different important topics, from performing cognitively in crisis situations to how we develop character and leadership in the military. We also discuss the impact of human performance programs among pilots. But mostly this episode is a story of how a pilot handled being hit by an anti-aircraft missile and the lessons learned she walked away with after surviving. Kim “KC” Campbell is a retired Colonel who served in the Air Force for over 24 years as a fighter pilot and senior military leader. She has flown 1,800 hours in the A-10 Warthog, including more than 100 combat missions protecting troops on the ground in both Iraq and Afghanistan. In 2003, Kim was awarded the Distinguished Flying Cross for Heroism after successfully recovering her battle-damaged airplane after an intense close air support mission. You'll hear plenty about that story in the episode, but let's just say she has a proven ability to perform in a crisis. Kim knew she wanted to fly from a young age, making her first solo flight in a civilian aircraft over San Jose at age 17. She went to the United States Air Force Academy where she was the cadet wing commander (the highest position a USAFA cadet can achieve), as was her father during his time as a cadet; the first time that a father and daughter both served as cadet wing commander. She holds a degree in International Security Studies from the University of Reading, and a Master of Business Administration from Imperial College London, which she undertook while on a Marshall Scholarship. Her final assignment on active duty was back at the United States Air Force Academy as the Director of the Center for Character and Leadership Development. Learn more about Kim or schedule her as a speaker on her website. She also wrote a book diving deeper on much of what we discussed here. If you've never heard the SR-71 Blackbird "ground speed check" story, then check it out here.

A conversation between brothers in arms who have known each other since the early 1980s - one an athlete, the other his coach at the time.----more---- SUMMARY Neither has ventured far from the Air Force or the Academy. Lt. Gen. Richard Clark '86, the Academy's 21st superintendent, opens up about his leadership journey to Lt. Gen. (Ret.) Mike Gould '76, the man who first coached him all those years ago. Gen. Clark's leadership story is exceptional and Gen. Gould does a masterful job of helping him tell it.   OUR FAVORITE QUOTES "The one thing that doesn't change is our mission. And our mission is to develop lieutenants, better leaders of character that are ready to go out and win our wars and that are ready to go out support defend the Constitution. That is it." "Whenever there's Americans on the ground, we're going to do whatever it takes to help them you will do whatever it takes." "Seeing those young guys go out there and do that, and do what they needed to do to help other Americans to help their fellow servicemen that made me prouder than anything." "I am very happy and comfortable to leave this torch with them to hand the torch off to them. And I'm just proud to have served with them." "I am leaving with a lot of gratitude in my heart, just from our cadets from our permanent party, from the alumni that helped us do this and the other supporters."   SHARE THIS EPISODE FACEBOOK  |  LINKEDIN  |  TWITTER  |  EMAIL   CHAPTERS 00:00:  Introduction and Mission of the Air Force Academy 01:09:  Lieutenant General Rich Clark's Background and Career 08:27:  Making the Best of Unexpected Assignments 10:18:  Leadership in Challenging Situations 00:09:  Introduction 07:28:  Enhancing the Academy's Facilities and Programs 14:57:  Developing Leaders of Character 31:11:  The Importance of Alumni and Supporters 37:51:  Transitioning to the Role of Executive Director of the College Football Playoff 45:08:  Conclusion   TAKEAWAYS  - Leadership is developed through challenging experiences like overcoming adversity, mentoring others, and leading in high-pressure situations like combat.  - Support from family, mentors, and sponsor families can help one persevere through difficult times and find purpose.  - Having an open mind and making the most of unexpected opportunities can lead to unexpected benefits and career success.  - Giving back to one's alma mater through things like financial support, mentorship, and service helps continue its mission and benefits future generations.  - Expressing gratitude to those who support your mission helps foster positive relationships and a sense of shared purpose.     LT. GEN. CLARK'S BIO Lt. Gen. Richard M. Clark '86 is the Superintendent, U.S. Air Force Academy, Colorado Springs, Colorado. He directs a four-year regimen of military training, academics, athletic and character development programs leading to a Bachelor of Science degree and a commission as a second lieutenant in the United States Air Force or United States Space Force. Lt. Gen. Clark graduated from the U.S. Air Force Academy in 1986. His commands include the 34th Bomb Squadron, Ellsworth Air Force Base, South Dakota; 12th Flying Training Wing, Randolph AFB, Texas; Eighth Air Force, Barksdale AFB, Louisiana, and Joint Functional Component Commander for Global Strike, Offutt AFB, Nebraska. He has also served as a White House Fellow in Washington, D.C.; the Commandant of Cadets, U.S. Air Force Academy, Colorado; Senior Defense Official/Defense Attaché, Cairo, Egypt, and as the Commander, Third Air Force, Ramstein Air Base, Germany. Prior to his current assignment, Lt. Gen. Clark served as the Deputy Chief of Staff for Strategic Deterrence and Nuclear Integration, Headquarters U.S. Air Force, the Pentagon, Arlington, Virginia. - Copy and image credit:  af.mil       ABOUT LONG BLUE LEADERSHIP Long Blue Leadership drops every two weeks on Tuesdays and is available on Apple Podcasts, TuneIn + Alexa, Spotify and all your favorite podcast platforms. Search @AirForceGrads on your favorite social channels for Long Blue Leadership news and updates!            FULL TRANSCRIPT OUR SPEAKERS Our guest is Lt. Gen. Richard Clark '86  |  Our host is Lt. Gen. (Ret.) Mike Gould '76   Lt. Gen. Richard Clark  00:12 The one thing that doesn't change is our mission. And our mission is to develop lieutenants, better leaders of character, that are ready to go out and win our wars and that are ready to go out and support and defend the Constitution. That's it.   Announcer  00:27 Welcome to the Long Blue Leadership podcast. These are powerful conversations with United States Air Force Academy graduates who have lived their lives with distinction. All leaders of character who candidly share their stories, including their best and worst moments, the challenges they've overcome the people and events that have shaped who they are, and who willingly lend their wisdom to advance your leadership journey. Your host for this special presentation of Long Blue Leadership is Lt. Gen. (Ret.) Mike Gould, USAFA class of '76 and currently serving as a member of the Association and Foundation board of directors. And now, Gen. Mike Gould.   Lt. Gen Mike Gould  01:09 My guest today is Lt. Gen. Rich Clark, the 21st superintendent of the Air Force Academy, Class of '86 at USAFA, and if I'm not mistaken, you're about 46 days away from retiring. After a 38-year career, that when you think about it, has spanned so much in our country, starting with the Cold War through conflicts in Southwest Asia, in the Middle East, and the culture wars that we all experience today. I think his experience in active duty is highlighted most by seven commands that he's held; a bomb squadron, a training wing, to numbered Air Force's, the joint functional component command for Global Strike, served as the commandant of cadets here at the Academy. And now like I said, as the 21st superintendent. In addition to that, Gen. Clark served as the senior defense official, and the defense attaché in Cairo during some interesting times, and also served as a White House fellow. And if that's not enough, he's flown over 4,200 hours in the B1, both the EC and KC-135, the T1, the T38, the T6 and the T21. And most notably, 400 of those hours are in combat. So Rich, as you look back on the past nearly four decades of service, I'm sure you have a lot to think about as it's all coming to an end. And really, how it all started. I'd like you to please share with us a little bit about your life as a young child. And you know, some of the influential people who you met in your formative years, and then kind of how that led you here to the Air Force Academy.   Lt. Gen. Richard Clark  02:58 Wow, well, first, can I call you Coach, General Gould?   Lt. Gen. Mike Gould  03:02 You (can) call me Coach…   Lt. Gen. Richard Clark  03:03 I'll call you Coach because you were my coach when I was here, and you saw me walk in the doors here. So, I'll talk a little bit about that. But I just want to thank you for letting me be here today. This is a real honor. So, thank you.   Lt. Gen. Richard Clark  But I grew up in the Bay Area, Oakland, Berkeley, California, and my parents were divorced. So, it was my mother, my brother and I. And then when my mom got remarried, we moved to the East Coast to Richmond, Virginia, and that's where I went to high school, and not a military family. My dad was drafted back in the Vietnam era. He served a short tour, so I don't really remember those days. So, I don't consider myself really from a military family and really hadn't considered joining the military. I played football, I played a lot of sports. Growing up, football was my primary — and track actually, but football the primarily, and I had signed to go to William & Mary in Virginia, and I was going with my best friend from high school and actually in junior high. And Coach Ken Hatfield came to my house. And the Air Force had been recruiting me. So did Army and Navy. And he actually came to my house though and visited my parents. And he had dinner at our house, and my mom thought, “He is such a nice man. And he was like, “Look, just come out and see the Air Force Academy.” Now what he didn't know was that I wanted to, I was very interested in flying more commercial. I always thought I wanted to be a commercial pilot. And he convinced me to come out. My mom was like, “Just go; it's free.” You know, I was like, OK, and so I still had a couple of college visits left. So, I came to the Air Force Academy. I'll be honest, I got here and after seeing the place and seeing the opportunities to fly — just to have a great education and to play Division I college football, I was hooked. And I, my dad — my stepdad who I consider my dad — made me call the coach at William & Mary tell him I was changing my mind. And I signed and came to Air Force. And when I got off the bus and got on those footprints , and they started yelling at me, I was like, “Hey, wait, I'm a football player. You're not supposed to yell at me.” That's what I thought. And that was not true. And the rest is history. And, you know, it was an important decision in my life, certainly. But, you know, I appreciate Coach Hatfield being persistent and coming to get me and, you know, talk to my parents, formative people, obviously. But it was a great decision. Great decision.   Lt. Gen. Mike Gould  05:48 Did you also visit West Point and or Annapolis?   Lt. Gen. Richard Clark  05:52 I did not because I didn't want to go to a — I wasn't interested, really in a service academy. What I will say, though, I did fill out an application to Air Force before Coach Hatfield came. And I did go and do an interview with my congressional member. Because my guidance counselor convinced me to do that in case I didn't get another good offer from somewhere else. And I actually got a congressional appointment. But then the Academy contacted me, and I told them I was going to turn it down. And that's when Coach Hatfield came to my house. But I, I went through the motions, I think, but I didn't really have an intention to come. I wanted to go to William & Mary, and I wasn't even going to visit Army and Navy because, you know, there wasn't something I was interested in.   Lt. Gen. Mike Gould  06:46 I'll bet you've looked back and asked yourself the question, what would you be doing now had you gone to William and Mary, or one of these other schools?   Lt. Gen. Richard Clark  06:54 Hard for me to picture my life without being in the Air Force and the Air Force Academy, right?   Lt. Gen. Mike Gould  07:01 Now, you let on a little bit about falling in on the footprints. But as you look back at arriving at the Academy, and you're in now, you signed up and you're going to be a Falcon, what kind of memories do you have about basic training and leading into your first fall semester?   Lt. Gen. Richard Clark  07:21 Yeah. So, here's the here's one memory I definitely have — and I talk to the cadets about this sometimes — I mentioned the phone-booth to them. And they're like, “What? “What's a phone booth?” Well, you know, I explained to them, there were these big boxes that had a telephone and you had a card that you could call home. And in basic training, about halfway through, you got to call home. And I call my mom. And I said, “Mom, this place is not for me. I'm ready to come home.” She's like, “Oh, that's great. Because the William & Mary coach called last week to see how you're doing. You could probably still get your scholarship.” And I was like, “Oh.” I was expecting her to say, “Well, you better not come home.” But she said, “You know, that's OK.” And truth is, I looked out the door, you know, they had the glass doors, and all my classmates are lined up out the door waiting for their turn to come in. And honestly, I thought, “Man, I'm not ready to leave these guys yet.” And so, she said, “You come on home, it's OK.” And I said, “Well, you know what, mom, I think I'm just gonna' finish basic training. And then I'll see. I want to stick that out with these guys.” You know, I made some great friends. It's not what I expected, but I liked the people. So, I stayed. And then after basic training, she asked me, “Are you still going to come home?” And I said, “Well, you know, I think I'll stick it out one semester, I'd really like to play football because I've gotten in with the team now. And I got some friends on the team. So maybe I could play one season. I think I've got a good chance to make the varsity.” And I did that. And then it was, “You know, Mom, maybe I'll stay for my rest of my freshman year.” It was like one step at a time until eventually I was like, “You know, I'm in.” But it was not a done deal for a while for me, you know, where I just said, “You know what, this is it. I'm in the right place.” I think after that first year, though, I realized that I was, you know — it took some time though. And football had a lot to do with it. The friends you make, the success we had as a team. That was just great. And I love my squadron. I was in 7th Squadron. Great, great friends there. So, after a year though, I feel like I was in but there was that moment in that phone booth and basic training where I was like, “Man, I don't know.” But I did it and I'm glad I did.   Lt. Gen. Mike Gould  09:52 Well, everything you just went through right there was referencing the people. That's what kept you there. But then you get into academics and you get your military training. How did you navigate some of those things? And you know, I know you had fun with your buddies and football is always a hoot. But about the other challenges that the Academy threw at you?   Lt. Gen. Richard Clark  10:15 Yeah. So, I actually, I liked academics, I did pretty well, I was on Dean's List most semesters, like seven of my eight semesters, I made the Dean's List. So not that I didn't have some challenges. I mean, there's those certain courses that you're just like, “Oh, my goodness.” But overall, academics wasn't the big challenge. I think the challenge for me was not having some of the freedoms that you wanted early on because you're sort of getting acclimatized to it, you know, you're getting used to not being able to do certain things, the military lifestyle, you have to get used to that a little bit. But once I got that — and going back to the people, everybody's kind of struggling with that. And when you're all struggling together, it just makes it a lot more bearable and doable. And I think after that first year, I was in, I was like, “You know, I'm in the right place. And I'm gonna' stay here.” I did have a moment though. When I was a sophomore, I tore my knee up playing football, the last game, San Diego State. Just ripped my ACL. My MCL — meniscus cartilage — had [to be] reconstructed. And I wasn't sure if I was going to be able to play football again. And that made me kind of think a little bit about was I going to stay. And I had to come to terms with some things, you know, “Why am I here? What's my real purpose?” And as much as football meant to me, I was here for something bigger than that. And I realized that unfortunately, at that point when I was injured, I think that was also the point where I really came to terms with why I was here, that it was something bigger than myself. And I wanted to be a part of it. And so I stayed. I was still determined to play and I did get to play, you know, the next season. But my purpose was a bit different, you know, and that injury really helped me kind of figure things out and sort through my greater purpose.   Lt. Gen. Mike Gould  12:18 Gave you that confidence of overcoming adversity.   Lt. Gen. Richard Clark  12:21 Absolutely. Like sports does. Right. That's it.   Lt. Gen. Mike Gould  12:24 Now, back in my day, we didn't really have a sponsorship program — sponsor families in town. But I think by the time you were a cadet, that program existed to have a sponsor family.   Lt. Gen. Richard Clark  12:41 They were awesome. The Frables, Neil and Elizabeth. I just had lunch with Neil about four months ago. We still we stay in touch and they're just awesome. And they were so good. They sponsored four of us. And they actually gave each of us a key to their house. And a key to their third car. Oh, my goodness, that was a lifesaver. And they cooked a lot. And we ate a lot. And they just they really opened their homes up to us. So, I credit them. I mean, they were my second family, and still just love them for what they did for us. They were a great, great sponsor family.   Lt. Gen. Mike Gould  13:24 When you were a cadet, did you participate in any formal leadership programs? Did you hold some positions within the cadet wing?   Lt. Gen. Richard Clark  13:35 O don't think they thought that highly of me. I wasn't that kind of cadet. I was the D.O. for my squadron. And that was because one of my buddies was a squadron commander. He's like, “Hey, man, will you help me?” And I was like, “Yeah, I'll do this.” But that was the most leadership experience I got and, you know, informal way. But I was glad to do that. It was my squadron. Although, when I told my friends to clean their rooms up and stuff, they'd always give me grief. You know, all these seniors. We were all seniors together. And they're like, “Who are you to tell me this?” Peer leadership is the hardest thing in the world. But yeah, I didn't rise to the level of like group or wing leadership or anything like that. So, the cadets were already surprised to hear that I'm like not, I wasn't that good of a cadet. I mean, I was like your average kind of cadet that did pretty well.   Lt. Gen. Mike Gould  14:28 Well, you're being modest here. I watched you lead on that football team. You guys had some success and a really tight group.   Lt. Gen. Richard Clark  14:35 We did. I loved our team. We had a lot of leaders on our football team, though. And people — I always characterize the leadership on our football team — people knew when they needed to lead. You know, there was just times where someone needed to step up and be a leader. And it might not be that you were the leader all the time. But when it was needed, somebody always stepped up. And that was I think the hallmark of our team. And it was just a great group of people, humble leaders, all about team success. And I learned as much leadership from football as I did anywhere else here at the Academy. And credit to Coach DeBerry, Coach Hatfield, you know, all of our coaches, and my teammates, for just helping me develop as a man and, and what kind of a leader and person I wanted to be. So that was as much of a leadership laboratory as anything for me.   Lt. Gen. Mike Gould  15:33 So, it sounds like when it came time to toss your hat and put on the gold bars, you were prepared to go out and be a lieutenant in the Air Force.   Lt. Gen. Richard Clark  15:43 I think I was. And my first job was right back and coaching football here. So that was a nice transition from the Academy. I taught unarmed combat, PE, and I coached the JV football team and you, you were at the prep school then I think, Coach, and so… But that was a phenomenal job. And there were like eight of us that stayed back and did that. That was just great. And you know, you had to employ some leadership there because you're trying to lead the cadets. And whether they're on football or in the PE class. So, I learned a lot doing that, but I really enjoyed it. I love being back here. And honestly, it gave me a whole different appreciation for the Academy. Because when you're a cadet, you are looking about five feet in front of you and you don't stop to look at the mountains and you don't stop to look at all that everybody's doing to make this place happen and the passion that people really have for our cadets. That was when I first kind of said, “You know what, this place really is special.” But you don't get that as a cadet necessarily. Some cadets, so they're special anyway, but cadets like me, I didn't know, and I was just ready to graduate. But that one year gave me a whole different appreciation. And I'm grateful for it.   Lt. Gen. Mike Gould  17:00 Right. And then you headed off to pilot training and like most lieutenants, you know, you're gonna' mix in with a new group of people, a new group of friends. Talk to us about your experience as a student pilot, and then on to start your career flying big airplanes.   Lt. Gen. Richard Clark  17:18 Yes. So, me and one of my good friends, Mike Chandler, we decided we were going to go to pilot training together. He was a teammate in football. And we were actually roommates when we traveled. And we decided we're going together. So, we both went to Laughlin. And we thought we'll go to Laughlin so there's no distractions, there's good weather, we're going to kill pilot training. And when we got there, we realized there's no distractions at all. And there was nothing else to do there. But we had a great time because of the people in our class. And we're the only two Academy grads in the class. But we just we bonded well as a class and pilot training was pretty good. I do remember though, I almost washed out, like in the first month, because I had a couple bad rides in a row. And you know how you get a couple, three bad rides, and you're out? And especially in those days, we lost half of our class, they washed out 50% of our class. And I had these bad rides. And I had to go to what they call an 89. You know, and what that was if you if you fail three rides in a row, right? If you couldn't do your no-flap landings, and you couldn't get them right in the T-37, then you went to an 88. You fail the 88, then you go to the 89. 89 was the elimination, right? And so, I had to go to an 89. And I had to fly with the squadron commander. And the night before, I call my mom again. I always called my mom. And I was like, Mom, tomorrow might be my last flight because I flew today, I failed the ride, and I don't think a whole lot is gonna' change between tonight and tomorrow. And she was like, “Well enjoy it. Because it might be the last time you get to fly an airplane, so you need to at least have fun. It's been your dream and my heart goes out to you. But enjoy the flight. Don't make your last flight something that was a bad memory for you.” And I was like, “Well, if I fail, it's gonna' be a bad memory.” She said, “But at least have fun. You can have fun.” But it was great advice because I went up there, Coach, and I was just relaxed. I even stopped studying when I called her. I didn't study that night. I went to bed, got up in the morning, didn't get up early and study. I went in there, I did my ground evals. I was usually pretty good in the ground evals and I just went up and I flew the sortie. I remember, he told me to do a cloverleaf, you know, the maneuver the cloverleaf, which was my favorite. I did the cloverleaf and he goes, “OK, we can head on back to the pattern now get your pattern work done.” And I said, “Can I do one more clover?” And he's like, “I don't recommend it, the one you did was fine.” And I said, “I know I just like the cloverleaf. Sir, can I just do one more?” He was like, “OK.” And I did another cloverleaf thinking, “You know, this might be my last time I did the cloverleaf.” I flew back to the pattern, I'm talking to the IP and stuff. I did my landings, you know, really uneventful. Got out of the plane, we're walking back, and he goes, “I don't even know why you're in this ride. That was a great ride.” And I was like, “You mean, I passed?” And he was like, “Yeah, great job today, Lt. Clark, you passed.” And what I realized, it was about just relaxing and flying the plane. And it was the best lesson I ever got in an airplane, when you can relax and just let your training kick in. And just don't worry and let your instincts take over. You just fly better. And my mom sort of taught me that. She's like, “Just relax and have a good time.” So, I sort of credited her with keeping me at the Academy. She got me through pilot training. I mean, she was my mom, too. So, I give her that credit. But yeah, that was a good pilot training memory. And, you know, everything's been great since then.   Lt. Gen. Mike Gould  21:12 So, you head off, and you're going to the EC135 first, right? So, talk to me a little bit about your career progression there as a captain and major and things you look back on from that period.   Lt. Gen. Richard Clark  21:27 Well, so, here's one big lesson that I got out. When I got the EC135, I wanted to fly C-130. Really I wanted to fly a gunship. And I thought, “I don't even know what that is I didn't put it on my dream sheet. How did I end up getting this?” I was bummed out. And then one of the IP(s) said, “You know, they handpick people to go into the EC135.” Oh, really? Well, because the EC135 was the airborne command post — the nuclear mission at Offutt and you always had a general officer on board. And you could only fly with instructor pilots and a co-pilot. You couldn't have a straight aircraft commander in that plane. And the co-pilot had an immense amount of responsibility in that mission, and you got a whole lot of flying time. And when you got done with that assignment in two years, you got your choice of your next assignment. And a lot of guys went to fighters. They had to compete for that. But then for me, it was the B-1 and I saw that that was available. And I learned that when I first walked in the door because several people got to FP111s and B-1s. And I was like, “Man, I could do this.” I got 2,000 hours in the T-38 because they had the ACE program, the companion trainer program in the EC. And between those two aircraft, I got 2,000 hours, which was plenty for me to go into the B-1. And then I flew the B-1 basically the rest of my career. And so, it was really one of the lessons I learned. Sometimes you get put somewhere that maybe it didn't want or maybe didn't expect, but you make the best of it. And sometimes there's these, sort of, hidden benefits and successes that you didn't even know about. But if you go there and just bloom where you're planted, good things happen. And I learned that early. Fortunately, in the EC135. I flew the B-1 for 17 years. I flew at McConnell which ended up moving B-1s out of there. Dyess Air Force Base, I flew at Ellsworth as a squadron commander. I did do a stint in the Pentagon and legislative liaison in there and I was also a White House fellow, which was an amazing opportunity for me. But those years and the B-1 and doing the Pentagon and the White House fellow were really amazing years. I met Amy in there and we got married. When I was stationed at Dyess as a captain, well, actually I met her as a captain — we dated, and I pinned on just a few months before we got married. But my flying career was just awesome. And my first command was just absolutely a pinnacle point. It was squadron commander and the 34th Bomb Squadron. And I got into that squadron. Sept. 5, 2001, is when I showed up for that and I had just left the White House fellowship, which was just a fantastic opportunity. But I was riding high Sept. 5, and then Sept. 11, happens and everything changed. The squadron deployed and I wasn't checked out yet in the B-1. I had to go through a re-qual program. And so, I can remember when they left. The squadron was heading out and they were, “…or maybe we could just take you as an unqualified pilot,” blah, blah, blah. There was no way that that was going to happen. And so, I can remember that day, when they were leaving, they left about a month after Sept. 11, in October. And I just went and helped pack up bags. I just did whatever I could to help that squadron out. I wasn't the squadron commander at the time. But I remember thinking, “Man, I can't believe the squadron that I was going to go in is going to go without me.” But they did. And I helped. And I tried to be as much of a contributor as I could. And when they came back, I was all qualified. And then a couple of months after that, I took over the squadron. And then they tapped us to go again. And so, I got to deploy the squadron in combat over Iraq. We deployed to Oman and we flew missions at the beginning of OIF. And that was just an unbelievable experience, growth experience, leadership experience, but really, just something I'll never forget, you know, it was hard. It was tough. We're there for about six months. But leading in combat I think is something we all prepare for and want to be ready for. But it's also an honor, you know, to be able to have that kind of responsibility. And I think back on it, and my timing couldn't have been better for me to be able to do that. It was just a highlight of my career.   Lt. Gen. Mike Gould  26:31 Can we entice you to tell a quick war story about a Distinguished Flying Cross that you are awarded?   Lt. Gen. Richard Clark  26:37 Oh, well, I could talk about that. Can I talk about a different story there? I have a better one, I do. This was one of my proudest moments I think I had as the squadron commander. I had to line up all the crews, you know, to put experience within experience and make sure that they were balanced out with the people that I knew, and who was going to perform the best. And I had 24 crews. They actually sent me extra crews from a different squadron to make sure that we had a full complement. And the last crew that I had were two of the most inexperienced people in our squadron. Two captains and two lieutenants. And one of them was a brand-new FAPE. Has just come from T-37s into the B-1. And I had to have 24 crews and they were the last four people. And I didn't really have another way to balance the experience and inexperience. So, I did it. And the flight commanders were like, “Don't do it. We can't send these guys out like that.” And I said, “We have to; they need to go. And so, on the second night, they went out they had 24 JDAM, 2,000 pound GPS bombs. And they started out. They orbited in the area, they did well. First they delivered their 12 bombs on-target, the direct targets from the ATO, and they hit those targets. And then they were orbiting, waiting for what we call it, x-cast, somebody to call in and say, “I need some bombs.” And our mantra in the squadron was whenever there's Americans on the ground, we're going to do whatever it takes to help them. You will do whatever it takes. And so, they're orbiting, and they're about at bingo fuel in there, meaning the fuel that they needed to go back, and they get a radio call from an AWAC. There's troops in contact and they need some air power. So, they give this crew, the aircraft commander, this young FAPE goes, “Well, we're close to bingo, but we're not there yet. So, give us the coordinates and give us the radio frequency,” and they fly. And they get this JTAC — joint tactical air control — on the ground. And he's like, “We're getting shelled from a ridgeline. There's Iraqi armored vehicles, they're hitting us hard. We need some bombs. We got 150 soldiers down here, can you give us some bombs.” He's like, “Got it, give us the coordinates.” So, they start getting a nine-line there. They're loading the coordinates, and the “Wizzo” is just putting the bombs, you know, he starts putting them on target. Boom, boom, one at a time. And they get the coordinates, bomb on target. But then they hit bingo. And so the aircraft commander tells the JTAC, “Hey, we're at bingo fuel, we need to get going or we're not going to be able to get back home. But we'll get somebody else out here.” And the JTAC says, “If you leave us now, we're going to get pummeled. Can you stay a little longer?” He says, “We'll stay as long as you want.” And so, they keep putting bombs on target. And they keep putting them down until they went Winchester and the JTAC says, “Hey, the shelling stopped. You guys are cleared out.” And when they turn their nose to go home, they didn't have enough fuel to get back. And so, they get on with AWACS and they're talking to AWACS trying to figure something out. They're looking at divert. Field diverting into a field in Iraq is not a good idea. But finally, a KC-135 flies into the country, into Iraq, unarmed, unafraid, gives them gas and then those guys can come home. And when they got back, they were three hours past their estimated arrival time. And I met him at the airplane because I'm going, “What happened?” And when the aircraft commander comes down the ladder, he's got salt stains on his back. They were working hard. I said, “What happened? He goes, “Sir, we overflew our bingo.” I said, “Well, certainly there's more to it than that.” And so, we go into the intel debrief and they told that story. And all of those, that whole crew, was awarded Distinguished Flying Crosses for what they did. And so that of all the things that happened, to see those young guys go out there and do that, and do what they needed to do to help other Americans, to help their fellow servicemen, that made me prouder than anything,   Lt. Gen. Mike Gould  30:44 I guess it would. And you took a chance, in a way, by putting this crew together.   Lt. Gen. Richard Clark  30:49 I did. Yeah. As far as I was concerned, I didn't have a choice, you know, but I had to trust them to do their job. And they were trained. I mean, they had received the training that was required for them to go to combat, so we have to trust them to do it. And they did it.   Lt. Gen. Mike Gould  31:05 Well, that's a really cool story. And if my math is right, you are about 15-16 years into your career at that time. Let me shift gears a little bit. How much thought did you give to staying in touch with or staying engaged with the Air Force Academy while you were out? You know, developing your career path.   Lt. Gen. Richard Clark  31:33 I gave a lot of thought to it. I used to come back for football games. I came back for my reunions for sure. And I don't think financially at that point, I hadn't gotten involved. But a couple years later, when our class, our 20th reunion was starting, that's when I really started realizing financially I could and should start to give back to the Academy. So that was when I think from a financial point, I really connected and realized that. But just from a present standpoint and coming back, I came back at every opportunity. I came back for games; I came back for some mentorship opportunities that people asked me to come talk to cadets and things like that. But I never thought I would get to come back here to work. You know, it never crossed my mind until someone asked me to be the commandant years later. And that was like beyond imagination for me, especially knowing what kind of cadet I was. I was like, “OK, you really want me to be the commandant? I don't think so.” But I got that opportunity down the road. I mean, that was after a lot. I went on to be a wing commander, you mentioned I was the wing commander. At 12th Flying Training Wing, I got to fly all the trainers and that was just awesome. And then I deployed to Iraq for a year, which was an intense year, hard year, I would say probably the hardest year I've had, you know, in my career. And then I got promoted to one star. And they sent me to Barksdale Air Force Base as the vice commander of 8th Air Force. And when I came back from Iraq, I knew I'd gotten promoted. And that job was kind of roundabout. They said, “Hey, we're gonna' send you to Barksdale to be the vice at 8th. But that job is actually going to be downgraded to a colonel and you're about to pin on one star. So we're not sure what's going to happen with you next.” I was like, “Oh, man,” trying to remember the lessons of the past though. I said, “OK. This is where I'm going so let's bloom where I'm planted,” right? So, we all move there. Things were great. And then I remember the MATCOM commander called me in one day and he goes, “You know…, they get the phone call from the secretary. I'm gonna', one, I'm a newly pinned on one star. And he goes, “Hey, you know that job you're in is a colonel job?” And I was like, “Yes, sir, I know. But I love it.” You know, I was being positive. He says, “But we're gonna' have to move you out of there.” “Yes sir. Understood.” And he goes, “What would you think about going to the Air Force Academy and be the commandant?” You could have knocked me over with a feather. And that's when you and I first connected, when I got to come be your commandant when you were the supt. And that was just a dream to be able to come back here and that's when I really connected back, you know, when I got a chance to see it, even from a different level. I talked about it as a coach you know, and seeing how special it is and seeing how passionate people are about our school. But being the commandant gave me a whole different view and being able to engage with the cadets and understand what they were doing and trying to push that development for them. Just amazing and I loved it, and Amy loved it, to live in the Otis House, having the cadets over, trying to help them with their, you know, their development. And that's a big job, right? We all know that because you take it very personally, because you want them to be everything that they can be in there. So amazingly talented. You just want to take that talent and give them every opportunity you can to thrive. So, we did that. And after that, even Amy, she might as well be a grad. I mean, she just fell in love with this place after those two years. Our kids, Milo and Zoey, they were 10 and 8 coming in. Our family just was immersed in USAFA.   Lt. Gen. Mike Gould  35:40 So, I was going to ask you about the role that Amy and the kids played in your development as a leader, but I got to see it firsthand. And you just went through that. When you had to leave the Academy, if you can remember, I'm sure you do remember this, I wanted to keep you here for a third year. Because you were that perfect role model in so many ways for the cadets. Not only your leadership, you know, in the job, but your family and the way these kids could then look up and say, “I want to do that someday. I think I can be like that guy.” And we wanted to keep you another year and then you came out on the two-star list and you moved on to what was undoubtedly a really, really tough assignment as the DAT and senior guy in Cairo. Tell us about that little bit.   Lt. Gen. Richard Clark  36:30 Yeah, well, if you remember at first they told me I was going to the Pentagon to be the 8th, which was like the big job. If you're a two-star, you go there, the 8th as the programmer. And Amy loves D.C. And so, they told us we were going there. And then I get a phone call from then-Chief of Staff Gen. Schwartz, actually, he called and said, “Hey, I need you to talk to the GAO management office, the GoMo, who do all the assignments for the general.” And I was like, “Oh, yes, sir. Is there a problem?” And I think you might have known about that — you probably knew about this already. Because it was bad news, I think he wanted to tell me personally or something. And so, I called GoMo. And they go, “Yeah, your assignment's changed. You're not going to the Pentagon, you're going to Egypt.” And I go, “Is there a base in Egypt?” They're like, “No, you're gonna' be working at the embassy as the DET.” And I was like, “Ah, OK. All right. That's good.” And so, then the first thing that came to my mind was telling me, I was like, “Oh man, she's gonna' flip out.” Well, I called her. And I said, “Honey, we're not going to D.C.” And here's the thing. Our movers were already in route, like, they were coming to pack us out. And I said, “We're not going to D.C., we're going to Egypt.” I was bracing for impact. And she goes, “Oh my gosh, are you kidding me? That's amazing.” I was like, she couldn't care less about what job I had, she couldn't care less that I was giving up like the best job to target. She was just looking for that adventure of Egypt. And that actually took a lot of heat off me. Because if she's happy, I'm happy. And so, we went to Egypt. And it actually turned out to be great. But we got truncated on the training. Like, you're supposed to get language school, you're supposed to go through this whole defense attaché course. And I didn't have time because it was a late breaking change. And they said, “Don't worry, you don't need all that training because Egypt's on skids.” That was the exact words of the guy that that told me I was getting a job. And he meant Egypt is in a good place. You know, they just elected a new president, democratically elected, and everything's good. Well, when we got there, I got to the airport and we're all sitting in the lounge at the airport, and I picked up a newspaper, and it was in English. And it said that day, the president fired all the military, all the top military leaders. I was like, I guess we're not on skids anymore. And it just went downhill from there. I was there for a month, and they attacked the embassy. And then a year later, the coup happened. Amy and the kids and all the families within the embassy had to go home. It was an order departure. They all had to leave. I remember telling Amy because I was in the meeting with the ambassador when all this happened. And I said “Hey, you might want to pack a bag because I think you're about to go.” She's like, “Pack a bag?” I said, “You can only pack a carry on.” “How long are we going to be gone?” “I don't know.” And they left and they went to D.C. And we had no idea. They ended up being gone for nine months. The kids started school and everything. Well, there was two thirds of the embassy stayed, but it was actually, from a professional standpoint, awesome. To be involved, often to be our representative on the military side, to work with the Egyptian military to try to help navigate through this coup d'état. And they're a country that we were very interested in keeping as a partner. I got a lot of good experience and just cool, like, opportunities to do things. It was a little scary at times, but I actually loved it. And then Amy and the kids came back. We look at that as one of our best assignments as a family. It was just — the Egyptian people are amazing. The travel that we got to do was incredible. And I just loved the assignment, and it goes back, you know, I mentioned to you, sometimes you get an assignment and you're like, “Gosh, what?” And it turns out to be the best thing ever. And that was one of them.   Lt. Gen. Mike Gould  40:50 And I thought for sure, somewhere in there, you were gonna' say you called your mom.   Lt. Gen. Richard Clark  40:57 Then I was married, so then I just had to stop calling my mom after that. Well, I still call her but not for advice. I gotta' call Amy, so, you know?   Lt. Gen. Mike Gould  41:06 Well, you had a couple more really challenging assignments. But let's talk about your time as superintendent. Not too many people think that you'll grow up someday and have that type of responsibility. And then when you get here, you realize that it's probably one of the most heavily scrutinized positions you can have in the Air Force.   Lt. Gen. Richard Clark  41:26 That's an understatement.   Lt. Gen. Mike Gould  41:29 We can both agree on this.   Lt. Gen. Mike Gould  41:34 But other than the general leadership and the experiences you have throughout your career, this place is different. USAFA is different than any other command, and in many ways more challenging, because you just hadn't had that experience. How do you reflect back on your time as superintendent and the fact that you you've worked through, I think you had two presidents, two commander in chiefs, you had a couple different secretaries, and they all have guidance that comes to you. But your job then is to make that guidance into your own policy. How have you dealt with all that?   Lt. Gen. Richard Clark  42:14 You know, honestly, all of us military members are — our job is to make the commander in chief's policy our policy, and to execute that policy. That's our oath. And that's what we do. And so, you know, for me, I feel like we've all done that. I mean, we've all at some point in our careers had to say, you know, “This is the law of the land.” I mean, I'm gonna' follow my oath to the Constitution, support and defend. And that's a part of it. So, in that aspect, you saw it was no different. But like you said, it's such a, I don't know, everybody has an idea. Everybody thinks they can run the Air Force. Everybody thinks that it should flow along their ideological lines, or whatever. And, frankly, it's about our country's policies that we have to abide by. But the one thing that doesn't change is our mission. And our mission is to develop lieutenants that are leaders of character that are ready to go out and win our wars, and that are ready to go out, support, defend the Constitution. That's it. And the policy things that people get so hung up on, sometimes they're really on the periphery, and they're not as entrenched. And what we do as people might think are — our core mission has never changed. There are some nuances, there's some things that might change a little bit, society changes. Young people change, you know, people that are 18 to 24. It's a pretty volatile group, in a way, and they change with society, too. So, we have to tweak and adjust based on our superiors, you know, people in the Pentagon and OSD and our president. We have to change based on society, and who we have coming into the Air Force Academy. And frankly, parents get a vote in this and the things that happen. And alumni always have a voice in this as well. They make their voice well known. But in the end, what it's my job to do is to make sure that our team is inoculated enough from all that, that we can continue to do our job and make sure that these warfighters are ready to go out and do what those lieutenants and those captains did for me as a squadron commander. That we're putting people out that are ready to go do that. And I always have in mind, like that story that I told you, Coach, it's always in the back of my mind. I hope that I'm developing people that are ready to go out and do what Those guys did that day. If our lieutenants are ready to fight like that, then we've succeeded. And that's my goal. I've never been a political person. But I get dragged into it all the time. And my job is to make sure that when I do get dragged into it, that we're still able to execute our mission, and that I don't drag the entirety of the Academy into it. And you know how it is. That's our job as leaders: to provide that top cover, and that shield, so that our people can do their job and produce those lieutenants that are going to go win wars.   Lt. Gen. Mike Gould  45:34 Well, that's a great attitude, and you've done it well. Tell me about your relationship with the Association of Graduates and Foundation? How have they contributed to your successes here at the Academy? And is there anything that the two organizations could do better?   Lt. Gen. Richard Clark  45:52 Well, I will say, let me start off with, enormous support from the Foundation and the AOG. And it's hard for everyone to really know what kinds of things you guys do for us. But all you need to do is drive around the campus, right? And look at the North Commons area, look at our new hotel, look at our visitor center, that's coming up, look at the Cyber Innovation Center that's coming up, look at our football stadium that's getting built. All those things are either fully private or public-private, that the Foundation has to not only raise the money, but facilitate those things happening. And I would say that, nowadays, we're not going to have very much construction that's going to happen here or any growth that the Foundation isn't involved in. You're going to have to be involved in pretty much everything that we do, if we want to keep evolving as an Academy. And since I've been here, the Foundation has done that. And the Foundation and the AOG are only as strong as our alumni. And I guess I've always known that intuitively. But since I've been here, it is entrenched in me and I will always be a supporter of our Academy from a financial standpoint, from my time standpoint, but it's critical, not just for our Academy, but really for the product, those 1,000 lieutenants that we put out, they benefit enormously from the help that we get. And those are just the big things. Forget about all of the research opportunities, the travel opportunities, the opportunities to bring in guest speakers, NCLS, you know, the National Character and Leadership Symposium is NCLS. There's so many other things that people don't even know that only happened because someone was willing to put their resources behind our Academy. And so, you know, the Foundation makes that happen for us to AOG brings them in, but together, that support is just enormous. And, you know, I get a lot of compliments about people who they see — the visitors that we have coming through the Carlton House, you know, the supt. house — thousands of people that come through there: cadets, donors, dignitaries, all kinds of people. All that happens because of gift funds from the Foundation. We're able to represent our Academy in a way that people can't even understand. And that also, you know — there's a synergy from that and an exponential effect from us being able to do those kinds of things that most universities do. But the government doesn't always support those things because it's not in a funding line. But the Foundation helps us to make those things happen.   Lt. Gen. Mike Gould  48:45 Well, you've summed it up pretty well. Our goal is for the Association to be relevant in the lives of cadets through their time here at the Academy and onto their careers. So that eventually they follow into that continuum where they go to the Foundation and say, “How can I help?” And we're seeing that happen now. And it's nice to hear you recognize that it's been a factor in your time. We're close to running out of time here. Richard, let me ask you about your next big challenge, executive director of the College Football Playoff. This is exciting. What are your thoughts there?   Lt. Gen. Richard Clark  49:19 So, I am enormously grateful and blessed to even have this job. I still kind of don't believe it. You know, because it's such a dream job. I'm going from one dream job to another, you know, but it's funny. What I'll say is, it came out of the blue. A search firm contacted me and I had some, I had known them because I was involved in another search for the Mountain West Conference to find our commissioner. And the people that ran the search knew me just because I was on that panel and everything. And the guy calls me one day. He goes “Hey, Rich, I heard you might be retiring soon. I think you mentioned to us would you be willing to put your name in the hat for the executive director of the CFP.” I was like, “Is that a trick question?” And so, he said, “Now you're the longshot candidate.” They wanted a nontraditional candidate on the, you know — they have 15 or 20 people that they're looking at, but they wanted a nontraditional. I was like, “Yeah, I'll do it.” I said, “Can I ask though, do I really have a shot at this?” He goes, “Yeah, everybody has a shot.” I'm like, “OK, so I got a shot. Let's do this.” And I did a phone interview, then I did a Zoom interview, then it was narrowed down to three and an in-person interview. And I got the job, and I couldn't believe it. But what's really interesting, the things that they liked about me, like, they asked me some questions like, “Do you have any media…?” They go, “Do you have any media experience?” I was like, “No.” “Do you have any experience in managing college athletic teams?” “No.” You know, “Do you have any experience and revenue generation?” “No.” I, you know, and I thought, “I'm just done.” But then they started asking me leadership questions and things that any of us in the military, we would all knock them out of the park. They are things that we've all lived and done things that I learned here, you know, at the Air Force Academy. They weren't hard questions; they were things that are second nature to us. The other thing that they liked was that I played football for four years. And being a student-athlete myself, they thought that that was a big benefit. So really, it goes right back to being here at the Academy and getting that job. And now I look at the challenges that it faces, then you just talked about all the scrutiny we get here as a superintendent. Yeah, I think I'm walking right into another job where I'm going to get scrutinized. It's going to the 12-team playoff, you know, this year. Last year, you know, number five team, everybody was all mad and lost their minds. And I think the committee did it right, though. Next year, it'll just be team 13 that's going to be mad. So, I'm ready, though. I'm excited about it. Amy's excited about it. We're going to move to Dallas, which is where the headquarters is. But I still am, you know, I'm sprinting to the finish in this job. So, I don't have a lot of time to think about it. But it's nice to know that I have another great job that I'm going to be able to flow into. I feel incredibly blessed by it. And just for the opportunity to continue to contribute to student success. And to be a part of that.   Lt. Gen. Mike Gould  52:32 That's a really good thought. And let me just ask you to close this out, Rich. Any parting thoughts to your team here at the Academy, to the cadets and to your teammates as you move on to your second career?   Lt. Gen. Richard Clark  52:50 Well, first of all, and you know this, as much as I do, you know, as the supt, you know, you're at the head of the table, right? And you're trying to provide the top cover. But it's really so that all of the amazing teammates — we have the dean of faculty, the commandant, the athletic director, the prep school, airbase wing, just across the board. You know, all of those people in the flying training group too, even though they're not AETC, there's much of this character development effort that we have. But they're the ones that get the job done. And what makes the Air Force Academy so special is that everyone is so passionate about our cadets, and trying to help them to be ready to go out and do the things that we need them to do. That's what makes us special. It's also what makes it kind of hard, though. But I will take hard when people are passionate any day, you know? They just will do this mission and they will do it, whatever it takes to make it right. And to make sure that we're giving those cadets everything they deserve. I couldn't thank them enough from all of our senior leaders right on down to the, you know, the people in the trenches working in Mitchell Hall. You know, I just love this place because of the people that make it work and that make it go to our cadets. I'll be very honest, there's people that go, “What's wrong with this generation? They don't, you know, they're not patriotic; they're not athletic.” These people don't know what on Earth they're talking about. Come spend an hour, 30 minutes, with our cadets and you'll change your mind. These are the most incredible people. They are patriotic. They want to go serve. They might be different than we were. They might be different than you know, even the classes before us. But there is no lack of patriotism and them wanting to serve and them wanting to do great things and to reach their destiny. And they are every bit as much leaders of character as anybody, this generation. They're better. They're smarter, they're more athletic, they're more in touch with their world around them. I am very happy and comfortable to leave this torch with them, to hand the torch off to them. And I'm just proud to have served with them. And then just to everyone out there, all the supporters of the Academy, and we do have a lot, I just thank them, you know, for letting us do our job at helping us do our job and supporting this Academy. So, I am leaving with a lot of gratitude in my heart, just from our cadets from our permanent party, from the alumni that helped us do this and the other supporters. It just makes me feel good about our country, you know, people still care, people still want to serve and to go do great things. And this place exemplifies that, like no other.   Lt. Gen. Mike Gould  55:48 Rich, that gratitude goes both ways. We're awfully proud of you, Amy, Milo, Zoë, and we just thank you for your years of service and the leadership you've exhibited here at the Academy. You left a mark, trust me, and we wish you all the well in the future as you go on about, and please stay in touch. Thank you.   Lt. Gen. Richard Clark  56:11 Thank you to the AOG and Foundation. And I'll say this, you know, I thank Amy because she's the one that was willing to go an extra four years because I could have retired as a three star when we started and she said, I'm in that passion from our time as commandant, she was like, “I'm in, let's do this.” And another four years wasn't easy for her. I'll be honest with you. She wants to live in her own house. She wants to… she started a new job. But she, she owned it. And she loves this Academy too. And I have to thank her and Milo and Zoë. They've just been my, that's my team. You know, I mean, in the end, you know, I thank God for them. I thank God for every opportunity. But I am just full of gratitude. So, thanks, Coach.   Lt. Gen. Mike Gould  56:59 Well done. Thank you. Lt. Gen.Rich Clark, 21st superintendent of the United States Air Force Academy.   Lt. Gen. Richard Clark  57:03 Thanks very much. Yeah, thank you.   Announcer:  57:08 Thank you for listening to long blue leadership. If you enjoyed this episode, we encourage you to subscribe, share it with your family and friends and post it to your social channels. Long Blue Leadership is a production of the long blue line Podcast Network and presented by the U.S. Air Force Academy Association and Foundation. The views and opinions of the guests and hosts do not necessarily reflect those of the United States Air Force, Air Force Academy, Academy Association and Foundation, its staff or management. The podcast drops every two weeks on Tuesday mornings. Subscribe to Long Blue Leadership on Apple podcasts, Spotify, tune in plus Alexa, and all your favorite podcast platforms. Search @AirForceGrads on LinkedIn, Facebook, YouTube, and more for show announcements and updates and visit long blue leadership.org for past episodes and more long blue line podcast network programming     KEYWORDS Air Force Academy, leadership, character, military career, pilot training, squadron command, Operation Iraqi Freedom, Lt. Gen. Richard Clark '86, superintendent, United States Air Force Academy, executive director, college football playoff, Association of Graduates, Foundation, leadership, character development, support, gratitude     The Long Blue Line Podcast Network is presented by the U.S. Air Force Academy Association and Foundation      

“In today's world, a lot of things are moved out into the cloud…it's up to the business themselves to protect that data.” -Dennis Moore, USAFA ‘87 Dennis Moore is the Founder of Coefficient Technologies, a trusted cybersecurity partner that provides the most up-to-date cybersecurity solutions, strategies, and IT services to help companies defend themselves from known and unknown APTs and attackers, ransomware, scams, outdated policies and best practices, and insider threats. Dennis has over 30 years of experience building and maintaining computer networks and providing information technology services and solutions. His specialties include cybersecurity, network design and implementation, data center operations, IT and web architecture and management, network security, and business continuity. In this episode, we discuss: What Coefficient Technologies is and the types of clients Dennis helps The biggest cybersecurity threats that exist today Dennis's career in IT, from the Air Force to the private sector The goals Dennis has for Coefficient Technologies for this year Connect with Dennis: LinkedIn Coefficient Technologies We learned a lot from Dennis, a true expert in the cybersecurity space, about how small business owners can protect and even increase the value of their company by putting the proper IT safeguards in place. Thanks for chatting with us, Dennis! If you found this episode valuable, please share it with a friend or colleague. If you are a Service Academy graduate and want to take your business to the next level, you can join our supportive community and get started today. Subscribe and help out the show: Subscribe on Apple Podcasts Also available on Google Podcasts, Spotify & Stitcher Leave us a 5-star review! Special thanks to Dennis for joining me this week. Until next time! -Scott Mackes, USNA '01

Today on the show, we are joined by Capt Jacob Riley, a C-5M pilot who is also involved in the Soaring program at USAFA in the TG-16A glider. We discussed his experiences flying in the Air Force, what is was like flying the largest aircraft in the Air Force, what the future holds for the C-5, and more. Be sure to follow so you don't miss the next episode! *Views expressed are not endorsed by the U.S. Department of Defense or its components.*

What are the top five characteristics great leaders share? Academy graduates, Alison '15 and Paul '16 Yang, discuss that answer — and more! ----more----SUMMARY Alison '15 and Paul '15 Yang discuss their backgrounds, experiences at the Air Force Academy, transition to the corporate world, and key qualities of successful leaders. Their leadership lessons and takeaways?  The importance of caring about people, having humility, being resilient, managing stakeholders, and leading through change.   LEARN.  ENGAGE.  LEAD! Read Veterans in Leadership: How Military Careers Can Shape Corporate Success including the contributions of Alison and Paul Yang.    DOWNLOAD THE VETERANS IN LEADERSHIP PDF HERE  |  SPENCERSTUART.COM   OUR FAVORITE QUOTES - "Care about people, whether that's, you know, asking about how their day was to participate in the flightline and solving everyday problems." - Paul Yang - "You have the humility to set yourself aside. You have a leg up, which enables you to have teams that perform under pressure and operate well through change." - Alison Yang - "I truly did [enjoy the YC advice]. I think sometimes Alison is very good at telling you what you need to hear." - Paul Yang - "Folks that come out of the military have no quit. If when we asked him to expand that out, he talked about how, when someone is asked whether or not they're willing to potentially make the ultimate sacrifice for this country, any other ask following that, in and out of the military becomes, I don't want to say easy, but it's going to fall short of it, right." - Paul Yang - "Care about people. And if you care about people, your interpersonal skills are likely decent, you have the humility to set yourself aside, you have a leg up on stakeholder management, which enables you to have teams that perform under pressure and operate well through change." - Alison Yang   SHARE THIS EPISODE FACEBOOK  |  LINKEDIN  |  TWITTER  |  EMAIL   CHAPTERS 00:00 Introduction and Background 03:47 Childhood and Influences 07:04 High School and Leadership 10:51 Air Force Academy Experience 14:47 Career Choices: Maintenance Officer and Intelligence 20:30 Leadership Skills from the Military 24:03 Transitioning to the Corporate World 29:40 Transitioning as a Couple 35:13 Mistakes and Lessons Learned 46:23 Key Qualities of Successful Leaders 53:20 Advice for Future Leaders 58:02 Closing Remarks and Contact Information 59:05 How They Met 01:00:09 First Impressions 01:01:52 Working Together 01:02:52 Thoughts on Wise Advice   OUR FAVORITE TAKEAWAYS - Caring about people is a key quality of successful leaders. - Humility and resilience are important traits for leaders. - Effective stakeholder management and leading through change are crucial skills. - Transitioning from the military to the corporate world requires support and networking. - Continuous learning and self-improvement are essential for leadership development.   BIOS Alison Yang '16 I lead the delivery of global executive searches for US industrial companies and specialize in engineered products, distribution, and aerospace & defense. Spencer Stuart is the world's leading leadership advisory firm. Founded in 1956 and privately owned, we are the adviser of choice among organizations seeking guidance and counsel on senior leadership needs. We work with clients across a range of industries, from the world's largest companies to medium-sized businesses, entrepreneurial startups and nonprofit organizations. Spencer Stuart today has 56 offices in 30 countries. Our global reach, leadership in CEO and senior executive searches, and status as the premier firm for board counsel give us unparalleled access to the world's top executive talent. CONNECT WITH ALISON - Copy and image credit:  www.linkedin.com   Paul Yang '15 Spencer Stuart is one of the world's leading executive search consulting firms. Founded in 1956 and privately owned, we are the advisor of choice among organizations seeking guidance and counsel on senior leadership needs. We work with clients across a range of industries, from the world's largest companies to medium-sized businesses, entrepreneurial startups and nonprofit organizations. Through 56 offices in 30 countries and a broad range of practice groups, our global reach, leadership in CEO and senior executive searches, and status as the premier firm for board counsel give us unparalleled access to the world's top executive talent. CONNECT WITH PAUL - Copy and image credit:  www.linkedin.com LEARN MORE ABOUT SPENCER STUART     ABOUT LONG BLUE LEADERSHIP Long Blue Leadership drops every two weeks on Tuesdays and is available on Apple Podcasts, TuneIn + Alexa, Spotify and all your favorite podcast platforms. Search @AirForceGrads on your favorite social channels for Long Blue Leadership news and updates!        FULL TRANSCRIPT SPEAKERS Our Host is Dr. Doug Lindsay '92 | Our Guests are Alison '15 and Paul '16 Yang   Paul Yang  00:08 It's real lives and young airmen and enlisted folks that you're put in charge of, and really making a true impact in people's lives on a day to day basis.   Alison Yang  00:16 The one theme, if we could say, captures all of this, is care about people.   Paul Yang  00:24 Whether that's, you know, asking about how their day was to supporting flightline and solving everyday problems.   Alison Yang  00:31 You have the humility to set yourself aside. You have a leg up, which enables you to have teams that perform under pressure and operate well through change. And it's also the difference between having people who just get the job done because they have to versus the people who get the job done because they want to. They believe in you.   Doug Lindsay  01:19 My guests today are Allison and Paul Yang, USAFA class of 2015 and 2016, respectively. Allison and Paul are a married couple based in the Washington, DC area and both work at Spencer Stewart, a global executive search and leadership advisory firm as associates in executive search. Both served in the Air Force with distinction winding up their careers in 2022 as officers in intelligence and maintenance leading large teams.  They are accomplished students of leadership and writers, which is how we met Allison and Paul. The pair recently contributed to an article on veterans and leadership in a Spencer Stewart publication. The article featured profiles of 10 prominent CEOs, three of whom are USAFA graduates and currently lead United Airlines, McAfee and Johnstone Supply.  We'll spend the next few minutes getting to know Allison and Paul, and we'll talk about their work with Spencer Stewart. Then we'll focus on the top five qualities they believe make the best leaders. And finally, we'll ask them to share one or two bits of advice they would give to those who want to be leaders and leaders who want to become even better. Joining us from the DC area, Allison and Paul, welcome to the Long Blue Leadership podcast.   Alison Yang  02:31 Thanks, Doug. We're happy to be here.   Paul Yang  02:32 Hey, Doug, happy to be here as well.   Doug Lindsay  02:34 Glad to have you. As we get started, if you don't mind, would you give us a little bit of a backstory on your lives as children before you got to the Academy? What was that like? And what was your growing up experience like?   Paul Yang  02:46 Sure, I could start. So I come from an immigrant family. My parents moved to the United States in 1993. When I was about two and a half years old, they moved to Queens, New York. My mom was a pharmacist and my dad was a truck driver. And so it was an interesting sort of startup story is what I'd like to call it. In the sense that I spent my weekends teaching my parents the English that I had learned during school and spent the weekend doing that for my parents. It was also a little bit of a challenging household as well. Maybe it's a little too much. But my dad was a bit of an alcoholic. A lot of stress growing up in this country and not knowing the language and trying to navigate it being in a completely different environment. So that led to sometimes an unsafe environment, but heavily influenced how I operate and how I think, being a problem solver paying, attention to detail, facing adversity, etc.   Alison Yang  03:44 I had a bit of a different childhood. I had what you would describe as an all-American childhood. My mom was a first grade teacher, my dad was an Air Force officer and had two younger brothers close in age. We were all best friends, all loved sports and we had to be best friends because we moved every few years or so but that really taught me how to be resilient, how to adapt to a lot of change in life. And I ended up growing this love for people. I loved meeting new people everywhere I went. I know sometimes it can go the other way where you hate moving. But for some reason I really clung on to that.   Doug Lindsay  04:20 So very different kind of origin stories there. But with those kinds of influences, and Paul, you mentioned that some of the challenges you had with that home dynamic and but also, Alison moving around a little bit. How did that translate into wanting to go to the Academy and doing that kind of opportunity? Was that something that's always kind of part of who you were? Alison, you said you like people and was that just part of that idea of service? Or how did that all come to be?    Alison Yang  04:47 Yeah, sure. I think I'd always been a very outgoing kid always driven to be an achiever. So, this passion for people, I would say it especially started in high school and I prided myself on knowing everyone in the in the class so I was class president. And you know, I was friends with the dorks and was friends with the popular kids. And my proudest moment in high school was actually, I was a benchwarmer on the varsity basketball team. And I was voted captain of my varsity basketball team. So, I would go up against, you know, the star player on the opposing team. I'd come off the bench, flip the coin and go sit back down on the bench, you know, it's sort of like a Rudy story. They throw me in the last few minutes of the game. But anyway, really proud of that. And then also saw the service aspect from my dad, and then saw a lot of women in leadership and knew that that's something I could totally do that I would love to do that I'd love a challenge. And so yeah, I would definitely say that all stemmed from my childhood.   Paul Yang  05:51 And then for me, I'd say my parents really encouraged me to kind of go out there and learn what's out there and get involved as much as I can. We kind of had this rule where in the house, we would speak Korean. But then when you're outside of the house, you're speaking English all the time. Which is interesting, you know, because my parents wanted to learn the learn the language and get familiar with it. But that made that basically kind of ingrained in me this idea that there's this whole world of knowledge out there, and there's all these things to do, especially being in a brand new country. So, throughout my childhood and growing up, I spent a lot of time getting involved in different clubs, in different sports, just because I wasn't familiar with it and be because I wanted to learn it and figure it out. So, I did a varying range of things. I did Model UN, I tried out the robotics club. I wasn't very good at it, but I tried it, I can say that, and a couple of different sports. That influenced me when I got to the Academy because I tried out for a sport that I never played before. And I ended up playing the whole, season, which is, you know, pretty interesting. And it was a great, great time to do that. But I, didn't really know that the Air Force Academy existed. I just kind of knew, hey, I want to give back to this country. I want to give, I want to be able to serve, I want to be able to give back. And so I always knew I wanted to give, join the military. And I guess that's what kind of led me down the path of going to the academy and listed first out of high school. And I was really, really fortunate and lucky to be surrounded by some key mentors of mine that told me that this place called this the Air Force Academy existed in Colorado Springs. You should apply. So much so that they were like, “Hey, don't have to work until you finish your application”, you know. So, I was very fortunate to have those folks that champion me, again, kind of further shaped my view of leadership later on in life.   Doug Lindsay  07:52 And then Allison for you in terms of the Academy itself, was it something you were familiar with? Because of your dad? How did you come to know about the Academy?   Alison Yang  08:02 And so yeah, he was not an Academy grad. So, for me, I, you know, my junior year of high school was considering the options. And I heard about the Air Force Academy, knew about it from my dad, who had friends who had gone to the Academy, and I've stepped into the Junior ROTC in my high school and said, “Hey, I'd love like a pamphlet on the Air Force Academy”. And they're like, “Sit down”, you know, “what sports are you in?” I was like, “What? “Whoa, I just want a pamphlet”. But, but anyway, that sort of started the process. And once I started the application process, which is, as a lot of listeners know, it's just an intensive application process, and you feel like you've achieved something when you submit it. So, I was really excited, you know, to have that opportunity. And yeah, I just, I knew it was right for me, especially as someone who was an achiever.   Doug Lindsay  08:54 So, what was that like when you got here then? So, you kind of very accomplished in high school, a lot of activity really busy. And then you kind of… that meets reality, when you actually kind of get here on in-processing and do that. What was that? Like, once you kind of got here in terms of that? Was it confirming or affirming of what you were doing? Or, were there some questions about, “What did I get myself into?”   Alison Yang  09:16 I loved it. And I had watched a lot of videos about basic training. But I have a really funny story. In my in-processing day, I was ready to conquer it, you know, got through all the screaming on the footprints. And I was like, I just got to make it to my room and I'll have some roommates and I can commiserate. We can do this together. And I get to my dorm room. And my two roommates one of them wouldn't speak to me. She was too nervous to talk. The other one had started hyperventilating. And she couldn't calm down. And so I will say both of them are incredible officers still in the Air Force today. Both made it through but in that moment, I said to myself, I'm gonna have to do this. This is gonna be me. We're gonna, you know and so it was a little bit of a reality check once I got to that moment.    Paul Yang  10:03 Yeah, for me, I would say I-day in-processing and basic training at the Academy felt in an odd way familiar, right, because I had gone through enlisted basic training. And then I went to the prep school and went through basic training there. So by the time it came around, I kind of knew, Okay, I'm gonna get yelled at, they're gonna break us down and go through this whole process. But I felt this need or this kind of calling to help my other classmates, because many of which were coming, many of whom were coming straight out of high school. And so even as simple as rolling socks, and cleaning your room, and hospital corners, those are things that I would say I've been doing every day, right, once you get out of basic training, but something I was familiar with at the very least. And so that desire to kind of share what I had known, even if it's something as simple as rolling socks, and folding your t-shirts in the right way to meet the measurements, I figured, you know, this is something that I know this is something that could be helpful in some way, shape or form. Let me go ahead and share that. And so my whole like early stages, or the early days at the Academy, that's what I felt called to do. Sharing that knowledge.   Doug Lindsay  11:14 Both of you (had) different kind of unique experiences as you work through the 47 months of the Academy, right? You're exposed to these new things. What would you say are kind of the couple of maybe crucible moments or the important moments or impacts that the Academy had on you during that time in terms of your development, not just as a person, but as a leader?    Paul Yang  11:37 I had never played a game of soccer in my in my entire life. Maybe it's because I grew up in New York, and there's not many fields. Maybe that's the reason why but I never played it. And so when I got this was during the prep school, when I got to the prep school, one of my buddies and my unit, or my squadron said, “Hey, you should try out for this team. You seem athletic, you'd like to run, why don't you come out to the field and try it out.” I did. And I enjoyed it. I didn't know how to kick a soccer ball the right way. But I knew how to run. And I knew that I was competitive and sort of headstrong in that way. So, I would say that was a highlight. And I got lucky because the person that would be starting in the position that I was in as left back ended up getting injured. And so I found myself in this situation of okay, I basically know how to play this sport. I can listen, I can listen to my coach's advice. But I have now I found myself in a starting position. I wasn't again, one repeat, like I wasn't very good. But I felt like what an opportunity to be able to play this sport at this level, having never played it before. And the Academy, certainly, you know, only a place like that, where you're given an opportunity like that, right? So that was like a pretty big moment, for me. A very proud moment. Maybe like a low-light for me, it was about halfway through the Academy, I was going through some personal things that I maybe lost sight of and I let it affect my academics, particularly one class, and I ended up failing a course. And at the end of the semester is you know, when you fail the course you go through the board process and you kind of go through, hey, you're gonna make it through. And I almost got disenrolled and I had my act advisor, someone you may know, Doug, but he really championed me. And he said, “Hey, it's okay, this these things happen”. Kind of brought me back down to earth and went through the board process ended up obviously not getting disenrolled. But it was a big, it was a big, tough pill for me to swallow of, hey, there are things in life that you need to focus on and make sure they're squared away and good to go. And ensure that it doesn't leak into other areas of your life is particularly if if there are high stakes involved, right, like enrollment at the Air Force Academy. Yeah.   Doug Lindsay  13:57 And I think that's an important part, right? Because that we tend to focus on maybe the positives, right? And we don't realize that without those kind of crucible moments, those kind of lower points that, you know, that helps frame out who we are, our perspective and who knows that opportunity. It sounds like it kind of change your trajectory a little bit about kind of reassessing. What am I doing here? What do I really want to get out of it? Right?   Paul Yang  14:19 Yeah, certainly a while I certainly cared more about academics after the fact. But it was it was a good lesson of, hey, this is real, you know, and I think to your point of, sometimes you could be flying high and in a really good place and you don't realize these little areas of your life that may be taking a toll and maybe require your attention and I think it's a good leadership theme as well. Of their different areas. It takes a lot of bandwidth. And so, making sure you take the time to take a step back and a lot your effort and your capacity in the areas that require it so that you are healthy and you're good to go. So that you can be present.   Doug Lindsay  15:01 Had a similar experience one of my semesters, my first semester sophomore year, I came in at a 2.0. And it was really close enough to the sun, so to speak, that that was my crucible moment. I'm like, that was a real evaluation moment for me to go. Okay, I need to, I need to do some things differently if I want to keep making this happen. Allison, how about you maybe some high and low point for you as well?   Alison Yang  15:25 Yeah, one of my favorite things about the Air Force Academy is just the incredible opportunities that it affords cadets so, I did the jump program, I did an immersion trip to Poland, I did a language trip to Morocco, a DC trip for a history class, I was on the lacrosse team and got to travel all over the place, marched in an Inauguration Day parade. So, all of those were just incredible moments. I would say the biggest thing that had an impact on my leadership is I was able to be the cadet squadron commander, my senior year. I'll say that peer leadership is the hardest thing. And I think that being a cadet, anything, you know, as a leader of cadets is harder than any officer leadership position I had, probably because there's, you know, formal structure within the military, there's, there's a natural chain of command, but when you're leading your peers, you know, you have to live with them every day too. So, it's a total exercise in dealing with people interpersonal skills. You know, in your, it was the greatest leadership gift I think the Academy afforded me. And then the low-light for me. So, I was the wing Command Chief, which was, you know, the top junior position, my junior year, and I did something called Weiss Advice. My last name was Weiss at the time, and I would go up on the staff tower, and I would give everyone morning advice at 6:00 a.m. before their breakfast, you know, something like, “Be a good friend today”. You know, you never know what your team your teammate is going through. This was at a time where there was social media that was allowed, and people could, you know, talk chat about whatever going on at the Academy. And I would say about half the wing was indifferent, a quarter loved the Weiss advice, and a quarter hated the Weiss Advice. And so, I got that direct feedback. And so, it was a great lesson to me that not everyone's going to love everything that you do. And especially as a person who really, who loves people who wants to be friends with everyone, learning that sometimes as a leader, you have to make tough decisions, or you have to do things that maybe not everyone will be on board with. But that was a, you know, it was a great lesson for me at that time that I carried on throughout my officer career.   Doug Lindsay  17:54 Taking those experiences you had at the Academy, how did that translate into saying, “Hey, I want to be a maintenance officer. I want to be an Intel officer?”.    Alison Yang  18:02 Yeah, and for me, I loved my political science and international relations classes. And that drew me into an interest in the intelligence field and just really synthesizing data about the world, understanding what drives our adversaries what motivates people again, and then ultimately, you know, proposing solutions actionable solutions to leaders to make decisions. So really enabling operations, which I loved, it would get me as close to operations as possible without actually flying in a plane. I tried power flight. Threw up every time so I knew that being a pilot was not for me. But yeah, just that foundation in my classes actually at the Academy drew me into intelligence.    Paul Yang  18:49 Well, I chose to be a maintenance officer. I put that as my top choice. Early in my first year, when we were putting in our preferences, I was thinking through okay, what's the career field where that'll provide me sort of the best opportunity to do exactly what I enjoy doing, which is championing others in solving problems. And obviously, by me gravitating towards leadership opportunities and learning about the world kind of pointed me towards the direction of maintenance because I knew that maintenance is a tough leadership environment, especially as a brand new lieutenant, you're kind of thrown in there, leading dozens plus people and there's a lot of problems to solve from the operational side and so okay, this is I think this is where I belong. I spoke to a number of different maintenance officers at the time there were AOCs some academic instructors as well. And so I knew okay, this is this is where I want to go and I thoroughly enjoyed it. I love the environment of being a thrown into somewhere where there's high stakes, it's on, it's on you and your team to figure something out. And it's real lives and real young airmen and enlisted folks that you're put in charge of and being able to be there relying on senior NCOs. And really making a true impact in people's lives on a day-to-day basis for the better, whether that's, you know, asking about how their day was to champion them because they need time off and managing their schedule to make sure that they have what they need to be best supported to, to support in the flightline and solving everyday problems. We don't have to go too much into the details there. But it's a tough group all dapper operationally. And I gravitated towards that.   Doug Lindsay  20:45 And I do want to ask a question about how you all got together. So, class of 2015 class of 2016, both at the academy at the at the same time, and now and you're married. So, can you tell us a little bit about how that started or how you met?   Alison Yang  21:00 I first remember meeting Paul, when he walked into an interview that I was holding, for my second in command as I was a cadet squadron commander, so I was looking for my superintendent and Paul interviewed for that role was the first time I had met him. I was dating someone else at the time. So, I had no romantic interest in him. But that was the first time I remember meeting him and I hired him. So, he worked with me for a semester. And then we became great friends after that.   Paul Yang  21:31 I think we had talked about earlier when Allison at six at six o'clock in the morning was sharing Weiss Advice up on the staff tower, before breakfast, when everyone's just trying to make it through the day. I learned obviously from a distance, and I had a lot of respect for her. I obviously still have a ton of respect for her now. And then when I found out that I was moving into 30, and I was applying to be her superintendent, I was like, “Wow, I would love to get to know this individual. And I'd love even more so to work for her”. So, there's kind of his running joke where our relationship started with Alison being my boss, and she still is today. Very much so and so that's sort of like our, our founding story, if you will.   Doug Lindsay  22:19 And then Paul, a question for you. So, the Weiss Advice that Alison talked about, what was your reaction sitting in, in Mitchell Hall hearing that that information?   Paul Yang  22:29 I personally enjoyed it. I think “Al” (short for Alison) had mentioned that maybe like, maybe a quarter of the people really, really enjoyed it. But I truly did. I think sometimes Al is very good at telling you what you need to hear. And certainly in our, in our marriage. And so, I really appreciated that even at the early waking morning hours of the day, that Allison was getting up there and saying some true hard things, like, “Be a friend. Support somebody. Be there for one another. If you have a tough test, at the end of the day, you'll be done with it”. I mean, just like simple things like that might not sound like a lot at the surface level. But it really hits home because it's just real. And it's true. And it's and it's honest. And so, to answer your question bluntly, I loved it.   Doug Lindsay  23:20 The Academy and the experiences that you've kind of talked a little about really spring-boarded you in those careers, because you obviously had success early on in maintenance and intel. What was it that you think you got out of the Academy that really kind of helped set the stage for you there?   Alison Yang  23:35 I think I would go back to the whole peer leadership thing, the fact that I had already been leading, you know, leading people honestly, as a senior and then went straight into, you know, my job as an Intel officer, I was leading a floor of 75 airmen at DGS Ops Center, and it was just awesome. I just had all these people around me, I knew how to interact with people I knew, you know. And then you even have an operational mission then so then it just becomes even more important. And I think that really set the stage. I mean, all of the character and leadership development that were taught at the Air Force Academy, all of that becomes second nature. You know, that's nothing that we have to learn at that point and, and being that kind of leader for people I think really helped me spring-board as just a second lieutenant into a successful intel career.   Paul Yang  24:34 The wealth of resources that the Air Force Academy has, even if it's just walking down the hallway, and talking to your AOC, who had spent probably 10 plus years in a specific career field and knows people in other career fields. And so, the networking aspect that the Air Force Academy provides is huge and being able to literally just walk down the hallway or maybe it's your instructor for one of your classes that came out of a curriculum to teach at the Air Force Academy. So, utilizing that network, and just knowing the wealth of knowledge and resources there has been huge.   Doug Lindsay  25:11 It's just always interesting to me to see the path that people choose. Because I certainly had my path and I found my way through. But it's just very interesting how personal that is, even though we all kind of go through a similar process, how we personalize that it's just really, I think, interesting as part of our journeys. And so, you're on active duty, you're having a lot of success, and then both decide to transition to something different. So can you talk to me a little bit about what that transition was like in terms of kind of getting into the space that you're in now kind of more the leader development space with, with where you're at right now.   Paul Yang  25:46 So, we decided to transition out at the same time, which, by the way, many of our colleagues and close friends thought we were crazy to be separating at the same time, due to the sheer amount of risk there. But you know, we took a leap of faith, we attended a career conference through a junior military officer, hiring and transitioning company. And when we attended this conference, Allison and I, we really kind of focused on the company culture, and the mission of the company. That's because we're coming out of the military, you know, we naturally gravitate towards companies that had a clear and defined mission orientation or goal, something that is founded on a clear values that aligned with the things that we felt we aligned with. And so, we both came across specially actually, we were, when we attended a career conference, they told us, you know, don't really lead with, hey, you guys are married. Because we were actually interviewed with very similar companies. And there was a decent amount of overlap, they told us to attend as individuals, rack and stack them in your in your brain individually and see where the alignment is with location with career fields and in different areas. And we came across an executive search firm, Spencer Stewart, and we just absolutely head over heels fell in love with the company culture and the type of work that it is, and it's certainly aligned, I guess I'll just speak for myself in this area, but it'll align with how I think and, and how I approach my day to day, which is championing the people, giving people a chance and solving problems. And so being in executive search, that's essentially what you get to do. You're helping your clients solve problems. And in this case, it would be leadership gaps, whether it's succession planning, maybe someone's retiring, etc. And you're talking to people about potential candidates for a role that maybe otherwise wouldn't have landed on their, on their radar in the past. And so being able to learn their story, figure out what their career goals are. And if there's an alignment with where they are trying to go with an opportunity to that a company can offer a great, let's talk about it.   Alison Yang  28:04 I agree, everything that Paul says is accurate. And maybe just to answer just the beginning of your question, why we made the decision. So we were both hard charging on active duty and really loved the service. For us, we just had decided, okay, we're going to be in a position where one of us will have to deploy the other will have to go back to teach. If we had this, we could see our career paths taking a divergent, you know, path, I guess you'd say. And so, we decided, let's just see what else is out there. And let's see what we can do. Paul had some experience that you know, from his dad and the business experience he's had in this country. For me, brand new, had no, you know, didn't even know what corporate life was like. And I said, “If not now, then when?”, and we made the leap and, and everything Paul said about Spencer Stuart so we joined. The culture is incredible. And we've really enjoyed our time so far in the year and a half we've been here.   Doug Lindsay  29:02 What was it that really kind of helped you kind of land successfully on the other side, because we know sometimes people struggle a little bit there sometimes in terms of what do I want to do?   Paul Yang  29:12 We were doing it together. And so, we naturally just had someone across the dinner table championing each other and going through the same experience together. And so being able to talk through ideas, talk through all the different scenarios and just having an ear that would listen was really, really helpful for us. And I wouldn't say that's, that's the only way but just having a partner through that, I think kind of tells a broader story of making sure that you surround yourself with folks around you that that have been through something like this before, or, or is going through it and being able to talk through things and act as a sounding board was really helpful for us.   Alison Yang  30:00 We are also huge proponents of transition companies, especially for junior military officers, we would have had no idea and we partnered with Cameron Brooks, spent a whole year in their program. They helped us translate our military skills into corporate speak, helped us with resumes. And then we had about 20 different companies that were aligned to our experiences that we would have never thought we would be qualified for. And if it were not for a program like that, I'm not sure we would have known and not only that, we had all these different industries we can compare. So, Paul and I got to say, “Alright, do we want to do manufacturing? Do we want to do banking? You know, do we want to be in professional services?” And we ultimately chose that incredible experience overall.   Doug Lindsay  30:47 Any regrets? No, that's great.   Alison Yang  None.   Paul Yang  30:50 No, no regrets.   Doug Lindsay  30:52 You talked about executive search and doing some of that. Can you walk us through a little bit what that looks like?   Paul Yang  30:57 At our firm where we're in executive search. And so that's actually a world we didn't know existed prior to going into the career conference and starting in this firm, but, but basically, we help large, mid to large sized companies on the public side and, and then on the private side, as well, we help leaders sort of make career moves, or we help clients solve their internal succession and leadership planning. What that looks like on a day to day basis, just to kind of maybe break it down, is a lot of calls a lot of internal and external conversations where you're running projects or searches internally, and just making sure we're following the process. And we're making sure we're managing things internally hitting all the dates for the deliverables. And then externally, lots of meetings with clients providing updates on market feedback, it also is probably the bulk of the amount of time that we spend is having conversations with potential candidates to make sure that we go through the full assessment process and doing our full due diligence to ensure that the folks that we would be potentially putting forth on a search on an opportunity are aligned well, yeah.   Alison Yang  32:16 And then Paul and I are both in different practices within the firm. So, I'm in the industrial practice, which means that I help recruit, assess and place executives in any domain within industrial so that could be oil and gas. That could be you know, manufactured products, engineered products, aerospace and defense distribution at large. It could be anything within the industrial sector, anywhere from a vice president level up to CEO.   Paul Yang  32:50 And I'm in, I'm in more of a functional practice, we call it financial officer practice, or basically CFOs. So, most of my work is basically, all of my work is with finance executives. So, CFOs and key deputies, and that's since it's functional. I basically spent a lot of my time across many different industries, because I think CFO-speak is pretty transferable from, from one company to another, from one industry to another, with the exception of a few that are just, they're different. But so, I guess that's like the difference between a focused industry versus a functional practice.   Doug Lindsay  33:32 What you talked about, that idea of being able to connect with people with influence championing others, solving problems. It sounds like you've kind of found your space on the other side in terms of what it is that you really enjoy kind of what your purpose is, is that fair to say?   Alison Yang  33:48 Absolutely, yes, yes. And it's one of the reasons why we, why we love it so much is we really feel that we've landed in a place where we can utilize all these skills. And also, when we're assessing talent, one reason that it's just great at being you know, having been a leader in the military is that when these executives are talking to us about change, management, change leadership within the organization, we don't know it conceptually, we know it practically from our time in service. So, we know if they're just blowing smoke, or, you know, so we found that very valuable and, and it's really cool. I mean, I think, and this is part of you alluded to our veterans article, we're just having access to folks like Scott Kirby, Greg Johnson, who know of these search firms, because that's how, you know, that's how they hire people, basically. So, it's been really neat, not only just being able to practice something that we love, but then also be able to talk to really incredible people.   Doug Lindsay  34:53 Yeah, and you hit on that piece of being able to not just talk about it, but kind of share your experiences. They're being able to kind of really understand, you know, at different levels in terms of what it is that they're looking for, what that means, what change management actually looks like in a large organization. Because even though you may not have been at the, at the geo level instituting those challenges you were at the implementation level of much of that change, and, and what that looks like. And I think that gives a different credibility of being able to say, hey, yeah, kind of been there, done that and talk about it that way, whether it's a CFO or industrial or whatever that is, right?   Paul Yang  Absolutely.   Doug Lindsay  34:53 With that in mind, what are some of the challenges or mistakes that you see leaders making today, just kind of curious in what you're seeing, and what you can talk about, and then we'll kind of talk about maybe some more of the effective things on the other side?   Paul Yang  35:45 Maybe it'll be trends, or sometimes things that kind of speak out to us as being on the search side. So, one of the things that I know that if an individual jumps from one company to another company too frequently, and I think that that could be that could mean a lot of things, right? It could mean that an individual was, you know, kind of in an ecosystem of a private equity firm, and they're buying and selling companies and moving from one company to another, which is fine, and you can speak to that. But if it's not in that situation, then it sort of signals that someone maybe hasn't done their full due diligence on an opportunity before, before taking on that role. And so that's something that I would say doesn't usually reflect too positively. And my advice, I think like springing from that would be, it has been, we've talked to plenty of folks that were where this happens, where maybe they land, they find themselves in a situation, or in a company that they might not like or a specific role that they might not like, it doesn't mean that they'd have to leave the company, right? It's not like it doesn't mean that there aren't other things that they can try. And so, my advice from that particular mistake would be see what else is out there within that company. Because the consistency of moving from one, one scope of responsibilities to another within the same company, I think reflects a lot more positively than, hey, I was there for eight months, and I didn't like and I left. A better story would be, I was there for about a year, I wasn't enjoying my job. I tried, I moved here within this part of the company and that's where I really found my passion for x. And then expanding from there…   Alison Yang  37:35 Maybe some other ones that we see, people getting experience outside of their respective functions. So, as they move up within organizations, you know, Paul's got a better example of this with finance, maybe you can go into that.   Paul Yang  37:53 Yeah, so being I think this is just the product of being in the in a functional practice where one is basically talking to a lot of different CFOs and varying in varying different industries, but finding, I think, has this history of maybe being a little bit siloed so, not the case anymore, right? Where you have folks that maybe start out as an accountant, right, or maybe started in a big professional services firm, and they work their way through accounting and audit, etc. I think the best ones are the ones that maybe expand beyond just their specific functions. So, with that, what I mean by that is, maybe this is someone that is that has an accounting background but takes the time to learn other aspects and areas of the business beyond what they see behind the numbers on finance. So in like a manufacturing organization, that would mean getting close to the business, getting close to the manufacturing floor, getting close to the product, and getting close to the product and really understanding, touching, feeling and seeing the product that their business is manufacturing. Because then it really helps that particular individual really translate what the what the numbers they are working through and managing and what that really means to their client or customer base. And those that are being that are better able to speak to that I have found that are the ones that tend to be more operationally oriented, the ones that can speak more about the business and not just finance.   Alison Yang  39:30 Another big mistake that we see maybe the biggest mistake is burning bridges. And you hear that at the Academy, “Never burn a bridge”. With an executive search, we extensively vet people for our clients. So even people that look phenomenal on paper or people who show up to an interview and they have an incredible interview. Great results on paper. If you've if you've got colleagues or peers or bosses that you have, have, you know, have a bad reputation with that, we will find it, we will hear it. And, and so it all comes back to being a person of character, you know, and we see that does burn people sometimes. And you also see things that the mistakes that leaders make when it comes to interviewing for jobs, which is not being prepared, you know, not presenting in a professional manner. We've had people show up late to board meetings and been completely taken off the list as a possible candidate. So, you see all of those things.   Doug Lindsay  40:30 Alison, you had mentioned something about character and being a person of character with that, are you seeing a more interest in that area as you're going through your executive search in terms of not just about what it is that you do, but it's kind of how you're showing up? Because you both mentioned the idea of not being siloed, being broader about that understanding, jumping around kind of the footprints that you're leaving behind? Or are burning bridges, that kind of speaks to that idea of character? So, sounds like that that's resonating more with folks. Is that fair to say?   Alison Yang  41:02 Yes. Absolutely. And I wondered that when I went into corporate America, if we would see these companies that we work with these client companies, you know, would they focus on? Are they looking for people who can just drive results within a company, and I'm telling you, more often than not, we have calls where most of it is, we're looking for someone who knows how to lead people, they're gonna have to come in here and in, you know, do a lot of change management, in some cases, and to revamp the entire team. You hear that quite a lot. And it's also something we really value at Spencer Stuart. At this firm, we screen for character, that's one of our four, the four things we screen for when we assess people. So yes, there's quite an emphasis on it.   Paul Yang  41:50 And it's often, and I would add that when it comes to just pure, I'll just speak about the practice that I'm in, but like pure finance capability, especially in like a public company, right? Like that is it's all public. So, you can see like the public filings, you could look at their 10-K and look at their proxy and see their company performance and ensure that that performance is there. And it's measurable. But more often than not, what we'll find is someone that could be that maybe potentially be a high performer based off of just pure numbers and pure historical performance, will maybe meet members of the board or meet, maybe meet other members of the team in which they'd be working with on a day to day basis. And the feedback would be, “Hey, not someone that we can see ourselves getting along with and working with on a day to day basis. Or not someone I just can feel a connection or something like that”. And that usually just means that they're good, they're good finance professional, or they're good at what they do. But not really sure that this is someone that they would, you know, that would inspire others of the company. And so, to Allison's point, I think at the end of the day, there will always be like an underlying, like baseline of capabilities. But what brings someone to the next level is, is one's character.   Doug Lindsay  43:07 I kind of transitioned this a little bit to the article that you all worked on, where you look at the top CEOs. And you're, that idea of what kind of sets him apart. I know that the article focuses a lot on the kind of the veterans and leadership, but what is it that you're seeing that you're starting to go, “Here are kind of maybe the top three, four, or five things that we're seeing that really make those effective leaders different than everybody else.”?   Alison Yang  43:31 I can talk to the first two, and then Paul can talk to the last three. So, kind of tying into that article, you'll see that I'll just say broad brush. The one thing, and it's what we've talked about most of this podcast, is just interpersonal skills, how much of an importance that that is. And it's not groundbreaking, but it's very real. And it underpins most, if not all other qualities that, you know, that these top performing CEOs all have. And so, the first one that that was also highlighted in the article is a team first mentality. So, it's about as simple as it gets. It's, you know, having a team with you, like, can you bring the team along? Like is the team a part of, the part of your mission and your story? And sometimes when we talk to people, if they're all about themselves, or if they can't describe how their team, you know, how they've impacted their team, or how they brought the team along? You know, it's very obvious and very clear, and it's not. There's a lot of culture change that happens in these organizations. And if you can't have a team first mentality, that won't necessarily happen. So that would be the first one. The second is humility. Being able to understand that you're not the smartest person in the room, but having the strength to make a decision when you need to, but also making sure you're valuing all opinions and doing that so humilities the second one.   Paul Yang  45:01 Another one, this is actually something that Scott Kirby, the CEO of United Airlines, that he had mentioned when we spoke to him as we're working towards our article, but he basically, he talked about how folks that come out of the military have “no quit”. You know, if when we asked him to expand that out, he talked about how, when someone is asked whether or not they're willing to potentially make the ultimate sacrifice for this country, any other ask following that, in and out of the military becomes, I don't want to say easy, but it's going to fall short of it, right? And so, there's this idea of being resilient and understanding how to perform under pressure when there are high stakes. And so I think that would be the key third thing. There are qualities being resilient in tough times, and knowing how to perform under pressure, when the stakes are high, then the next one is maybe stakeholder management. I think it's a very common thing that we would hear both in the military and out of the military, understanding and having the ability to work with a variety of different people. And I think it kind of goes to that point of being broader than just what your function is, understanding what one decision does to the rest of the organization in the organization and how it affects others around others around you. In the military, there's so much like, connectivity between maybe like the squadron or flight or group or wing level that it naturally just happens, but out in the corporate world I think sometimes you can get siloed, when you might not see like the direct translation of how decisions are affected other people. So being able to understand who are the, in both internal and external stakeholders is, is important. I think the fifth one, Allison already talked about the change management. That's, I don't even want to say it's like a, like a common phrase, because it's almost accepted, or it's almost like, what's the phrase I'm looking for here, it's almost like you have to have it. You know, in today's day and age where there is so much change, things are moving faster than ever before, especially with AI and just incredible technologies that are out there. It's a very fast moving world. And so being able to understand that that's happening, and being able to understand how that will how that translates internal to internally to one's organization is important.   Alison Yang  47:39 When it comes to change management as well, one of the key questions we ask are the people we assess is, “Where was the business when you came in?” And, “What have you achieved since then?” So, it's since that where was it? Where is it now? And how did you do it? And so that's one of the ways that we assess for change management.   Doug Lindsay  47:59 What I'm encouraged about is that those are all things that I can get actually better on understanding humility. It may be difficult to kind of step back and do that. But each one of those five are things that I think you can actually get better on, right, you can sit or invest some time in and go, I'm not where I want to be. But I can do that. Is that fair to say?   Paul Yang  48:19 Yes, no one is perfect in any of these areas. It takes practice and it takes time. And often-times, we'd be speaking with folks, or we're on the phone or in a meeting, where we realized someone will maybe have that introspection to look back and say, “Okay, this is an area that I'm not good at, maybe it's team building”. And they maybe they're 15-20 years in their career, and they're like, “You know what, I need more experience building a team. What's an opportunity at this company, in my respective company, where I have the opportunity to do that?”, and then seeking that out and putting it into practice is a key thing of just understanding, maybe it just kind of stems from the humility piece of, I'm not the best at everything. And there's all these areas that I need to improve on. But to your point, Doug, these are all things that that can be practiced in real time.   Doug Lindsay  49:10 As you are assessing them, and as you're looking at it, whether it be from the industrial side, or the CFO, are you finding that these leaders are receptive to the feedback that you're giving them in terms of maybe some of those areas where they're, where they're not where they need to be? Are you seeing an openness and a willingness to lean in and learn about that?   Alison Yang  49:30 It's interesting, you say that, because if when they are open to hearing it, they're showing humility, you know, you assess that just in the way that they interact with you as a person, you know, are they too busy for you? Are they you know, we do often get people ask us questions, you know, “How can I be better?” I mean, you talk to executives all day, you know, what, you know, how can I be better how, you know, what, how do I present myself better, et cetera? I think, you know, if you meet a real stinker then they, it's probably they're probably not going to be as receptive to things like that. But that's just my experience.   Paul Yang  50:08 There are candidates for particular roles. You know, on any given day, there's a there's a high volume, right? So, what that means is not everybody's going to be able to get the job that they that they want. And that's just the fact of life. And so, the ones that come back and say, “Hey, I know I was a finalist, or maybe I wasn't a finalist, what feedback do you have for me? How could I have done better?” Speaking to Allison's point about being having that level are having that ounce of humility to say, “Okay, I didn't get this, but there's got to be a reason why. What are those areas? Is it the team building? Is it, did I not share enough about change management? Did I not, you know, talk about certain results, or maybe it was how I presented myself and showed up to the meeting”. They asked for that feedback. And I think that also has to do with our firm and being in our company, because we have the agency and both our clients and our candidates put that trust in us. And they look to us for that advice. And we'll be transparent a because we have to be because they need it. And it's all about uplifting others and providing the feedback to others so that they can get to where they're trying to go.   Doug Lindsay  51:15 That whole idea of humility, just kind of really resonating. I do a lot of executive coaching and there's a really fundamental difference when someone shows up wanting to learn and you know, “Hey, this is wrong. That, you know, that's not, that's not how I really am”. And so that kind of that humility to be able to sit back and go, “What is this information telling me that's going to help me as a as a leader?”   Paul Yang  51:35 Maybe I'll start by saying if you're currently a cadet working towards graduation, or you're an alumni and already graduated, you, you're likely already a leader, and probably a good one. And so maybe that's like a good baseline to start. But Al and I, we kind of went back and forth thinking about this one and trying to figure out how do we distill both our personal individual personal lives, our combined military experience and our combined experience in the corporate world and executive search. And we thought about a little bit further, and I'll let Al share here.   Alison Yang  52:15 We're a little bit like a broken record here. But the one theme, if we could say, captures all of this is care about people. And if you care about people, your interpersonal skills are likely decent, you have the humility to set yourself aside, you have a leg up on stakeholder management, which enables you to have teams that perform under pressure and operate well through change. And it's also the difference between having people who just get the job done because they have to versus the people who get the job done because they want to. They believe in you. And they believe in the mission. And so, if you are good at caring about people, if you just care about people in general, you'll get there. And that's, that would be our advice.   Doug Lindsay  53:04 If folks want to find out more about what you're doing, or about the article that we referred to in the podcast, where can they go to find out that information?   Paul Yang  53:13 Simply just go to spencerstuart.com. That's our firm's website. It'll clearly outline different intellectual capital pieces that we've written as a firm in the past, and it's historical as well. So, we'll provide insights on certain industries and certain functional areas in terms of trends or things that we see. And then also tell you how our firm is broken down as well. So, if there's a particular industry that you're interested in learning about, it'll point you in the right direction in terms of folks that work in that specific practice, or if you want to reach Alison and I individually to talk to us about the work that we do, feel free to find us on on LinkedIn.   Doug Lindsay  53:55 Thank you all for your insights and the work that you're doing in terms of helping to continue to mold and develop leaders and getting them into the right locations. And we appreciate you being on the long leadership podcast today.   Alison and Paul Yang Thanks so much.   KEYWORDS Academy, leadership, company, Air Force Academy, people, leaders, Alison, speak, championing, talk, work, Paul, executive, day, started, understanding, search, meet, good, knew     The Long Blue Line Podcast Network is presented by the U.S. Air Force Academy Association and Foundation     

Lt. Gen. (Ret.) Bradford J. Shwedo '87, uniquely suited to his calling, explains how he leverages lessons from the past to equip present-day warriors to dominate future warfare.    ----more---- SUMMARY A leader of warriors can never over-prepare for potential battle. Lt. Gen. Shwedo, director of USAFA's Institute for Future Conflict, draws on the distant past to teach today's cadets how to lead tomorrow's warriors into 21st century battles and win.   LEARN. ENGAGE. LEAD! Read more about the IFC in the first of a three-part series, Future Focus, in December 2023 Checkpoints! (Pg. 42)         OUR FAVORITE QUOTES IN THIS EPISODE "I saw that the Air Force figured out how to win with what you got. They would figure out a way through leadership to win with what they got." "Leadership is all about working with people, and you've got to understand people." "I work for you, I'm removing your impediments so you can do that, you know, kill the bad guys." "Don't forget who you are. There were there were times when we were shoveling show. I have learned to show up when it's crappy." "My focus had to be the Dean. And the direction comes from the national defense strategy. So we actually have a meeting a week with the futures guys. And that gives us insight."   VIDEO:  BRIEF ON THE IFC TO THE ASSOCIATION OF GRADUATES AND FOUNDATION - 1-11-2024   SHARE THIS EPISODE FACEBOOK  |  LINKEDIN  |  TWITTER  |  EMAIL   CHAPTERS 00:00 Introduction and Background 02:24 Early Competitive Streak and Decision to Join Air Force Academy 06:16 Being Open to Opportunities and Trusting the Process 07:38 Preparation and Academic Background 09:30 The Importance of Studying History and Being Prepared 10:56 Leadership Lessons from the West Wing 12:52 The Shift to Special Access Programs and New Ways of Thinking 16:34 Leading in Cyber and Intelligence Operations 17:30 The Decision to Join the Institute for Future Conflict 19:22 Shifting the Focus of Leadership and Academics 20:50 Helping Cadets Understand the Larger System 23:13 Preparing Cadets for the Future Fight 25:43 The Rise of Third Parties in Warfare 26:37 Motivating and Understanding People as a Leader 28:52 Are Leaders Born or Made? 30:19 Lessons in Leadership: Don't Forget Who You Are 31:17 Advice for the Next Generation of Warriors and Leaders 34:07 Leadership is About Working with People 36:21 Final Thoughts and Contact Information   OUR FAVORITE TAKEAWAYS - Leadership is about working with people and understanding what motivates them. - Being open to opportunities and trusting the process can lead to valuable experiences and career paths. - Studying history and being prepared can provide a strong foundation for future challenges. - Leaders must be aware of the changing nature of warfare and the rise of third parties in conflict.   GENERAL SHWEDO'S BIO Lt. Gen. (Ret) Bradford J. Shwedo '87 is the Director, Institute for Future Conflict. Previous to this position, he was the Director for Command, Control, Communications and Computers (C4)/Cyber, Chief Information Officer, Joint Staff, J6, the Pentagon. Lt. Gen. Shwedo has commanded at the detachment, squadron, group, wing and numbered air force levels. During these commands, his units were engaged in direct support to Iraqi Freedom, Enduring Freedom and the greater Global War on Terror providing worldwide Intelligence, Surveillance, Reconnaissance and Cyber operations. He also led an Intelligence Team to Desert Shield/Storm. His last command was 25th Air Force at Joint Base San Antonio-Lackland, Texas, where he led 30,000 personnel in worldwide operations, delivering multisource ISR products, applications, capabilities and resources. When he was the Chief, Information Dominance and Chief Information Officer for the Office of the Secretary of the Air Force, he led four directorates that supported 77,000 personnel and cyber operations across the globe with a portfolio valued at $17 billion. Lt. Gen. Shwedo graduated from the U.S. Air Force Academy in 1987 with a degree in Military History and was also a student athlete, lettering in football. - Copy and image courtesy of www.USAFA.edu LEARN MORE ABOUT THE IFC   ABOUT LONG BLUE LEADERSHIP Long Blue Leadership drops every two weeks on Tuesdays and is available on Apple Podcasts, TuneIn + Alexa, Spotify and all your favorite podcast platforms. Search @AirForceGrads on your favorite social channels for Long Blue Leadership news and updates!        FULL TRANSCRIPT SPEAKERS Our host is Dr. Doug Lindsay '92  |  Our guest is Lt. Gen. (Ret.) Bradford J. Shwedo '87   Gen. Shwedo  00:01 I saw the Air Force figured out how to win with what you got. They would figure out a way through leadership to win with what they got. They would put us in situations where they would facilitate our positives and negate our negatives. So, when you sit there and go, “Well, you didn't give me X, Y or Z, so we lost.” No, my expectation is we'll work to get what you need. But the expectation is still you win with what you got.   Doug Lindsay  00:55 My guest today is Lt. Gen. (Ret.) Bradford J. Shwedo, USAFA Class of 1987. Gen. Shwedo leads the Air Force Academy's Institute for Future Conflict as its first director. Throughout our conversation, you'll hear us refer to the Institute as the IFC. Gen. Shwedo was named to the position in March 2021 by Academy Superintendent, Gen. Richard Clark. The IFC is preparing cadets to wage and win wars in nontraditional domains. As we progress through our conversation with Gen. Shwedo, you will quickly understand why he was chosen to lead this pioneering institution where future-think informs everything they do. The general graduated from the Academy with a bachelor's in military history while also lettering in football. His career led him into an intelligence space, beginning with an assignment at Goodfellow Air Force Base in Texas in 1989, then Germany and Saudi Arabia. He served as threat manager with the 487th Intelligence Group from 1993 to 1995. He moved to the Pentagon as offensive information warfare chief in 1995. Between 1998 and 2020, he spent time in Korea, several assignments at CIA headquarters in Virginia, at Buckley Air Force base here in Colorado, and several more assignments at the Pentagon. He served in multiple command and leadership positions, and at one point was in charge of four directorates supporting 77,000 personnel, global cyber operations and assets valued at $17 billion. He's a consummate warrior, logistician, strategist and leader. Gen. Shwedo. Welcome to Long Blue Leadership.   Gen. Shwedo  02:33 Thanks so much. The pleasure is mine. Thanks a lot for having me.   Doug Lindsay  02:36 Absolutely. Let's, let's start kind of at the beginning if we if we can.  It seems like from an early age that you had a competitive streak.  Can you talk a little bit behind that background and that upbringing?   Gen. Shwedo  02:48 So, I will tell you, I was very, very pleased when the Air Force came knocking. And it started with football, as you brought up. And I was recruited as a high schooler to come out here and play and I think as what you were talking about my earlier career. I think I'm very much a product of the Academy across the board. It's not just one single piece. And one of the larger ones, though, was football, and quite honestly, and we'll talk about history, because that was very much one and then different comms programs, also big influences, but coming here to play football, it was amazing to me. There were so many great athletes, I wasn't one of them. But it was amazing to me every Saturday, we would go out there and we'd look at these guys that any layman would say there's no way these guys are going to win. And I learned a lot about leadership and a lot about, you know, capabilities and competitions in Falcon stadium. And I saw in Air Force that they figured out how to win with what you got. They would figure out a way through leadership to win with what they got. They would put us in situations as individual athletes, where they would facilitate our positives and negate our negatives on that competitive streak. All that background at Falcon Stadium was priceless. I mean, I learned a lot both playing and coaching on how to do that. And once again, that reflects greatly on the people in the Department of Athletics, who every day have to do exactly what I witnessed. But what a great life lesson for when after you graduate and you're no-lie defending the country. We expect you to win with what you got.    Doug Lindsay It's a no fail mission. Right?   Gen. Shwedo Absolutely. Absolutely. And what a great training ground, you know, to kind of lick your wounds when you didn't get the right lesson. But on game day, I felt like we were always there. We always understood what we needed to do. And we put those people in the right places so we could win that day.   Doug Lindsay 04:49 You realized that as you went through football and as you were coaching and doing that, but before that, when the Academy did come knocking or — what was it that intrigued you about it? Obviously the opportunity to play football… What was your thought process of that whole idea of saying, “I'm gonna go out to Colorado and I'm gonna do that?” And there's that service component as well.   Gen. Shwedo 05:07 I think the one thing that really impressed me about the Air Force Academy, and they still do this: They sell you on the whole program. You know, there are some places where, and I was getting recruited from other schools, where they're just focusing on the football, or whatever. And what I loved about the Air Force Academy was they sold you the whole package. And quite honestly, I encourage cadets when I meet with them to think of this place as a buffet. Because there's lots of things you don't know the Air Force does that is really, really cool. And my biggest problem was, I wanted to do everything. I mean, I wanted to be a pilot, I wanted to be an astronaut. I wanted to be a combat controller, I wanted to be an intelligence officer — I thought all of those things were really cool. And when I tell the cadets, look, “I know what you want to do right now. But think of this place as a buffet, you don't just sit down and eat one sample of those things. And you rapidly find out there's lots of different things that you may want to do.” And that's kind of the way I've been through my career is, you know, wow, that's really cool. Or that I'd like to do that. And [I've] been very lucky to be able to pounce on a lot of those opportunities.   Doug Lindsay 06:15 Being open to the process and kind of trusting the process, that there's something here that we're going to, we're looking out for you. I always thought that was kind of nice in my 22 years that there was always someone there looking out for me, protecting me from myself, so to speak, of, “Hey, you need to go here at this time. And you need to do that.” Even though it wasn't quite the vector I wanted to go, it was still probably the best one at the right time.   Gen. Shwedo 06:38 It is things you do for the team that doesn't always, you know, align with what you want to do. But in the long run was absolutely the right call.   Doug Lindsay 06:47 Right. And you mentioned the team, right. That's something I think that I learned as well, kind of going through this, it felt very much — when I would fail a GR test, it was very much me. But it was always kind of in the context of something larger about the about the team. And that's where that always felt like I was going through it alone. But I really wasn't because there were all these other people around me. No, you're exactly right. What else really resonated that set you up for success when you got on the Academy?   Gen. Shwedo 07:12 You know, on the academic side, I felt well prepared for what I was about to jump into. And, you know, military history for me was exactly what I wanted to do. There's an old Bismarck quote that says, “Only fools learn from their mistakes, wise men, you know, learn from other people's mistakes.” And that's kind of what dragged me to military history, because I was like, you know, there's a lot of life lessons there. And, you know, it was reading that I really enjoyed. Also, within the academics, you know, a long, long time ago, we studied about the Soviet Union, and World War III, and all of those things. And as you said, I went to intel school in '89. But I rapidly found myself in 1990, in Desert Shield, and all of those things that I had studied — because the Iraqis used a lot of the Soviet organize, train and equip structures — I knew what they were doing before. So, I had studied here. So, I felt really well prepared by the time Desert Storm started. And then that started kicking me off, you know, in the right direction,   Doug Lindsay 08:24 I always felt a little unsettled at the Academy, because it was always pulling me to do different things, not just be stuck in my lane, but learn that there are other lanes out there and that I can actually be in that lane and be OK, you know, whether it's academics or military or athletics. And I think there's something to that idea of not just letting people be a little unbalanced, and being comfortable with that in terms of being able to figure out where they need to be or what they need to do. Does that fit in with what you're talking about?   Gen. Shwedo 08:53 You're exactly right. And you know, everybody jokes about the GRs and the quizzes and knowing where you're going to take a hit here and you're gonna focus on that, as I talked about siri, that was not comfortable, but you kind of sucked it up. But first of all, you know, dealing with cadets in this job is the most humbling experience in my life. They're so much smarter than I ever was. And, you know, it's really humbling, and it's an honor to do that. But they fire, you know, evil questions back at you. And it's actually really fun to answer those questions. So, a lot of them will go, you know, “I'm learning all this stuff that's not applicable and blah, blah, blah.” And they'll ask me questions. So, when I was doing cyber, on the joint staff, we have these things called committee meetings and principal committee meetings. And those are either chaired by — the principal is chaired by the president or National Security Council and when you walk in, they are underwhelming conference rooms in the West Wing of the White House, I can assure you, and at a principals committee meeting you have a secretary of defense, the secretary of state, secretary of treasury, chairman of the joint chiefs of staff and sometimes when it would come to cyber, or frequencies that you know different election security. They go, “BJ, you take the meeting.” So, I would go and you know, the first time I walked on the West Wing of the White House, it was a significant emotional event. But back to the cadets, I have told them a hundred times, you know, when you go in there, first of all, you better be prepared, you better do all the studies. So, all of these things that we do to cram is not a bad thing. But the next piece is, I've told them numerous times, some of the things that I learned in Colorado Springs carry the day in West Wing discussions, because I remember studying those things, and, “Well, you're forgetting this portion of their history, or you're forgetting this piece.” And often, I'm sure you had it when you were running around, cadets are like, “Oh, when will I ever use this?”   Doug Lindsay 10:54 Surprisingly, actually, you will.   Gen. Shwedo 10:55 I'm embarrassed to tell you, yes, you will.   Doug Lindsay 10:59 Well, so thinking about that idea of being in the West Wing and being there and being tapped to say, hey, you're the guy, you're successful at that point at the highest levels. But at some point, there's that idea that you're the person, right, you're the one that's got to be able to speak and articulate in that way. What was that like the first time that kind of went through that?     Gen. Shwedo 11:18 It's very humbling, you know. First of all, you look down at [your] stars, you're like, where the hell did these come from? Because, because you do still feel like you're a cadet, you know, 24/7. And, honestly, when you walk into these rooms, you know the seriousness of the situation. By that time, you know most of the people around the table, and, you know, you're prepared. They will give you three-ring binders. And I tell the cadets this, I'm like, look, you know, the world is not — and we've had cadets come and they go, you know, “What's all this Hamas, and, you know, Israeli thing?” because our squadron's kind of split. And I go, guys, I go, “I know you're in an academic situation. So, you think things are either right or wrong. But the world is gray.” Talking to the cadets, oh, we went through the history of, you know, the Middle East and all that. And they're kind of drooling, because it's been 20 minutes, and I go, “By the way, that three-ring binder, that's the first tab. And if you haven't read everything in that binder, you're gonna get mauled in this situation.” And I go, you know, the next piece is, and we went back and forth where there wasn't, you know, there were so many grays associated with it, and I go, “Now, when you get up from that conference table, you're gonna walk out, and there will be people waiting to talk about the border, the Ukraine, or they're…,” you know, and it has a conga line of problems that that they deal with every day. And I go, “Oh, by the way, you better be well versed on all of those too.” And, you know, when they see that, it is that transition to, from an academic situation where it's right and wrong, to what we're going to dump them into the grays. And I think they do see, that's where some of these applicable situations that they had in Colorado Springs may come back. Once again, is it a GR quiz, OK, well, a quiz is gonna die, all right there. And I'm not too proud to tell you that speed reading is a good thing. And they will drive you from the river entrance at the Pentagon and drop you off in front of the White House. And by the way, soon as you get back from the White House, there's another meeting waiting for you on another thing that you better be prepared for. So this whole thing, there's a method, I think, to the Academy's madness, throwing all this stuff at you.   Doug Lindsay 13:39 So, you kind of come out as a military history major. So really more, here's what was done to here's what's going on to here's kind of what it looks like in the future. What do you think it was that appealed to you?   Gen. Shwedo 13:55 I was very lucky. And, you know, came out of Desert Storm, and I knew I was too dumb to get a master's on my own. So, they sent me to the Defense Intelligence Agency, and I started seeing some of the new stuff and some of the things that were in the intelligence community. So that job in the 487 Intelligence Group, I was working new bombs, missiles and PGMs. And then they go, there's this new thing, and it's going to be a Special Access Program. You're gonna get into all of those things. And I think what led me to that was I could pass a polygraph. I mean, I grew up in this little town in North Carolina. And you know, the first time I took a polygraph, they said, “Have you done drugs?” No. “Have you done drugs?” No. The guy goes, “Have you done drugs?” No. And he turns off the machine and says, “You've never done drugs.” That's because I'm from Reedsville. We'll get drugs in about 20 or 30 years. But all kidding aside that started getting me down to all the Special Access Programs and every one of them was cooler and cooler and cooler and I had a blast when I worked special programs during 9/11. And when President Bush said, “This is going to be unlike any war you've seen before. A lot of it is going to be in the shadows.” And you won't see what was being done. That's kind of where I was. And what was wonderful because there weren't very many people with those clearances. So, I would usually go straight into the chairman's office and say, “This just came in from the White House, we need to do X, Y or Z.” And he would do that. So then fast forward, we weren't talking about cyber, we just didn't talk about it. I was at the CIA. And they said, “Congratulations, you're going to be a group commander, you're going to transition an intel group into the first attack squadrons for the Air Force.” So that's how I did that. And then I stuck around to be the wing commander. But you know, that realm is just, like you said, lots of excitement, lots of new ways of thinking and doing things. So, I was very, very excited to be able to jump into that at an early age — captain. Really, I will tell you, our airmen are amazing, amazing. And when you start pitching them into a fight that they really appreciate. And sometimes, especially in cyber, when you change a one to a zero, they, the overall group doesn't know what's going on. So, I usually would charge our junior guys to do the math down range. And say, “By the way, when you turn that one to a zero, bad guy X, who wanted to blow himself up in the Mall of America is no longer with us.” And then all of a sudden, everybody walks around with a big bow chest, and they're very proud of what they do. And then it's just starts snowballing. And everybody's doing better and better things. And I tell a story often but, you know, I walked in at 3 o'clock in the morning and there was all kinds of math on … the board, and I go, what's up with all the math and he goes, “Oh, Airman so-and-so figured out how long we go to jail if we did this on the outside.” Now, of course, everybody's kidding. But I'd be you know, those are those airmen that that are just rockstars, and you're so proud to be around them. And just like I was telling you about football, I wasn't the athlete, we had a bunch of rockstars I ran around with. And it was just a lot of fun to be a part of that organization.   Doug Lindsay 17:27 You're like, tailor made for your role right now. It seems like everything kind of fit into your ability and where you're at right now to be at the IFC. So, when, you know, the folks approach you, Kaminsky and Fox, and those folks approached you, what was it about this one that really made you say, “Yeah, that's where I want to go?”   Gen. Shwedo 17:49 So, I will tell you, you know, relationships matter. And you know, we have brothers and sisters across, you know, this place. So, and you know, when you call somebody a brother or sister, you may not mean it. Most of the people I run around with really do mean it. So, I got a phone call from Gen. Clark, who was a teammate of mine. And he was also in seventh squadron with me. So, we've known each other for very long time. I was still on active duty. And he goes, “Hey, brother, I need a favor.” And I'm like, “Sure, brother, whatever you need.” Don't answer the phone like that. Doesn't work well. But all kidding aside, he, you know, he said, because he and I have known each other he goes exactly what you said, “Hey, I'm looking at all the things you did, and what they want to do. This makes all the sense in the world.” And, you know, really, the major reason I came was a brother asked me to do something, and I'd do anything for him.   Doug Lindsay 18:50 But what the IFC is doing is it's changing our mental model, right? It's out of those traditional ways. We think about academics, how we prepare leaders, we're taking a little bit of different approach there. So, what's that been like helping the Academy transition to that new mindset?   Gen. Shwedo 19:08 My focus had to be the dean. And the direction comes from the national defense strategy. So, we actually have a meeting a week with the future guys. And that gives us insight. But then going back and figuring out what we're going to put into the curriculum. We did a curriculum review as soon as we got here. And I was joking, and I said, “OK, everybody knows Word products. We're going to do a universal insert, delete, every time you see ISIS and Al Qaeda, they'll say Russia and China.” But all kidding aside, that was kind of where we started rooting out some of the problems as we did. If I'd had a dean that didn't agree or believe, we'd be done a long time ago, but she's been wonderful. Gen. Clark has been awesome, you know, facilitating all of this. And because we can go classified or do anything else, it really starts, as you said, shifting the focus. And saying there is a reason why the Air Force Academy is different than an ROTC unit or a regular, you know, OTs or whatever, we're going to ingrain that across the board. This is basically teaching them, “You're a part of a much bigger, you know, orchestration. And, boy, it's a different way of thinking, but definitely gives you insight into how to do different things, you know, thinking two or three layers above when you're just in a cockpit.” “I don't understand why I'm doing this.” But two or three layers above, “I totally get it. Now I understand it.”   Doug Lindsay 20:41 Well, and helping people see that connectedness to the larger system, right? So, it not it may seem like I'm an independent person doing this, right. But as part of that larger system and…   Gen. Shwedo 20:49 I still want you to independently be padlocked on that target and do all of that. But as opposed to grumbling, “I don't understand why I'm doing this,” or the urgency of me … doing this from the way that they're telling me…,” it totally makes larger sense, as opposed to shut up and do it. We're Americans, we challenge everything. And honestly, I think that's what gives us the advantage over China or something else. We question everything. That's not necessarily bad.   Doug Lindsay 21:18 Yeah, that's right. Within context, right? That's right. So, what's it like from a leadership standpoint? Obviously, at the highest levels, this one's a little bit different, maybe some more influence? Sure, more of those dotted lines and things? What's it been like to lead that organization through, from the beginning to where it is now, from the big idea to a concept?   Gen. Shwedo 21:40 I really am not looking to take credit for anything. So, whenever a future conflict thing comes off, we may have pulled lots of strings, but whoever's carrying it out or is involved, we try to push it, and we'll look at what they did, because that makes the better team and, you know, sometimes I wince a little bit when they go, “Well, the IFC did this.” Well, actually, a lot of people did. And when people go, “Well, you know, who is in the IFC? Who's studying under the IFC?” Well, as I said, all three mission areas. Well, when did the IFC does well, I mentioned Firstie Flag. Well, actually, that's not mine, that's the Commandant's. We've helped out. But it's common. It's an outstanding job. And I would never say, “Look at what the IFC did.” But when you look at all of these different things, where we'll bring speakers in somebody else, or will fund, you know, some conference, you know, the donors may say, “Hey, BJ, what are you doing, you know, with this money?” I can show them that it absolutely forwarded the future fight. It's giving the cadets great insight on that future fight. But somebody else may walk in and go, “But that was my conference.” And I will say you're exactly right. And we are very proud.   Doug Lindsay 22:57 Obviously, we're sending out people who are competent in certain domains as an academic institution as well. But from a leadership standpoint, where are you seeing the value of the efforts of what IFC and the larger team is doing on helping cadets understand their leadership and their role in leading that effort moving forward?   Gen. Shwedo 23:16 There's several things with that. So, the first piece is making them aware of the threat. And you know, the dean has introduced me and said, “This is BJ. Gen. Shwedo, he's making evil minds.” And I'm here to tell you that the evil minds already exist. What we gotta do is make them aware of the environment we're dumping them in. And a case in point, I have one cadet, he raises his hands like, “You know, hypersonic missiles. I don't understand what's the big deal about that.” And I go,” OK, well, first of all, yes, they're fast. But as you remember from Physics 110 a ballistic missile trajectory is all mathematics. That's how the Patriot works. Hypersonic missiles can maneuver. So, all your math is now dead.” And I go, “Oh, by the way, when you look down-range and you see all those antennas, NORAD, for the most part was looking up to the north, because the quickest way to get an ICBM to the United States was over the top. You can actually take a hypersonic missile, put it in a low earth orbit, and that attack will come out of Antarctica.” Same cadet immediately raises his hand and goes, “So the maneuvering — is that RF, command guide?” And he's immediately trying to get into it. And I'm like, I love you, man. Because, honestly, when you start making them aware of the threats, they immediately start thinking countermeasures. So, from the leadership standpoint, they understand that piece, another thing we're teaching them is, and it's a snarky way of saying it, but forget cylinders of excellence — and cylinders of excellence during the global war on terrorism. We could show up in one cylinder of excellence like I told you about the Predator, the Reaper, fire that missile, declare victory and go home. If we're going to fight a great power competition or whatever, we are going to be in that situation where we need air, land, sea, space, cyber all showing up. So, break down the cylinders. And then the last part of this great power competition: We need to keep it at competition and not get to conflict. For the most part, we've been stuck at bombs, bullets and beans in the spectrum of conflict. This is competition down here. This is conflict over here. And what we're teaching the cadets is no, you got to participate across the board. And it may be heavy, more in cyber or information operations. But you're going to use those tools all the way across the spectrum. But I really don't think our citizenry is ready for great power conflict. They're so used to us running up the score to a hundred to nothing that they don't understand what that is. And the Russians and Chinese on the competition scale, had been running unopposed because we have been padlocked on ISIS and Al Qaeda. So, we're resetting their awareness. So, when they are future leaders, they make those impacts on the lower level. So, we just like I told you at the beginning, we never got to World War III.   Doug Lindsay 26:14 A lot of impact in a short amount of time. What are you hearing, even anecdotally from them about that experience and that mindset and that ability to play at that level?   Gen. Shwedo 26:23 A kid that walks up to me goes, “Sir, I had no idea my country does this, but I want to do it really badly.” You energize that excitement, and then they come back and start telling all of these friends, I mean, you know, when I came here, I knew we were doing cool stuff, but being able to come back and see all of those things. Boy, that makes me want to study more that makes me want to get even better at whatever that buffet, right, that I want to do, it is — and it's just one more thing that energizes me to make sure that I get it right.   Doug Lindsay 26:56 When you put energized, passionate, excited cadets together, and you start talking about the ability to solve complex problems and have an influence…   Gen. Shwedo 27:05 So, I used to call them evil bar-napkins. They come up with, you know, these great ideas. And it is humbling, because they, you know, they grew up a different way than I did. That's probably a lot more applicable to that future fight. And that is why so many people come to these guys. And that's why our research department gets so much money, because they want to drag these guys in. I think we have more opportunities than we have cadets for research. Because they're so in demand, people understand how smart they are.   Doug Lindsay 27:38 If Gen. Shwedo was Cadet Shwedo going through the Academy right now, knowing what you know in terms of your trajectory and what you've learned over your time, and then knowing the opportunities that exist in the IFC, what would you tell yourself to think about as you're going through this process, if you got off the bus this summer to start all over?   Gen. Shwedo 27:59 I would look up and say, “You're very lucky. It's going to, they're going to be times it's just going to suck. You better be ready for that. But I will tell you it's worth the fight.” You know, I've seen and done very, very cool things that people will not know about for a very long time. And then the last part is because I just got off the bus and my head shaved, and I'm pissed off at everybody, “Suck it up. It's, it's worth the price of admission. But when you get out, honestly, all of this training all of this, you know, experiences preps you for those future opportunities.”   Doug Lindsay 28:35 So, Gen. Shwedo, as a student of military history, and a teacher of leadership, and there's a question that we often like to ask just based on people's experience, are, in your opinion, are leaders born or are they made?   Gen. Shwedo 28:47 You know, it's funny, I often get the question, you know, “Hey, is there a book that you really advocate for leadership?” And I just kind of smile and go, “Look, leadership,” just like I was telling you with the coaching and all that other stuff, “leadership is all about working with people. And you've got to understand people. And it's a little more work than that.” Just like you said, I need to find the positives, I need to see what you as a person excites you, what motivates you. And then when I was telling you facilitate the positives and negate the negatives, and I believe, … people are born with the capability to get to know you a lot better, but it does come back to motivating you and finding where I can put you in that situation, that you're going to excel just like we were talking about earlier, and then keep you out of those situations where you may not perform. That is kind of the one-on-one leadership. Well, it's more of a pyramid organization by design. So, you find leaders that also go along those lines and then when I have a problem, I go down that pyramid along those lines. But I think it's, it would be pretty sad if you're either a leader or not. I do believe that if you're not very good at figuring out people, etc, you can eventually learn that. But it is easier for some than others. That's kind of it. Leadership is definitely motivating people and understanding what motivates [them]. You know, Patton used to say, “I don't measure the merits of my company commanders by the calluses on their ass.” And what you are saying is, “Get out.” And you do need to get out there and you know, motivate, understand, talk to the folks and for, you know, here and everywhere else, because our airmen are so amazing. It's actually one of the best parts of the day. And some of these guys are just denying them that opportunity.   Doug Lindsay 30:53 And within the context of warfare, obviously, you've mentioned this earlier, that we've seen the world change and conflict in the 21st century doesn't take place in what we think in traditional areas, like the battlefield. So, what advice would you like to offer the generation coming up behind you and us that, who want to be warriors, that maybe want to join the Long Blue Line and, and want to become leaders for the…?   Gen. Shwedo 31:17 …Future fight? I will tell you, you know, fundamentally, as I said before, it's a lot different than global war on terrorism, and you know, some of these other pieces, but what I'm seeing, especially with technologies, is the rise of the third parties. So, when it comes to cyber, we've watched the Ukraine, where these third-party cyber gangs, are now playing. And you know, when you look at the Russian cyber capability, where the Russian government stops, and the Russian mafia begins, is not a real good, fine line. And we're seeing some of these guys pitch into the fights. When I'm talking to the cadets. I'm like, “You can ignore this, but you'll do it at your own peril.” And more disconcerting, a lot of these well-intentioned people that may think that they're helping the fight, there was one report where they had gotten into the space systems of the Russians. And they had the ability to turn off the satellites. Well, in a nuclear scenario in first strike, making your adversary blind before you do that is a precursor. And sometimes countries don't want their missiles stuck in holes. So, when they start seeing all of those warnings go, they launch in the other direction. So, these well-intentioned people could cook off a much larger campaign. So, I tell the cadets that you cannot ignore these capabilities. Another one is drones. I mean, Richard Clark, who was the previous SOCOM commander, quite rightly pointed out that a bomb has not fallen on U.S. troops since 1953. These drones that we're seeing, and, you know, they are blowing up tanks, they have pushed the Black Sea Fleet out of port. You know, we've seen all of this. And fundamentally, you're going, “Okay, how do we counter that?” And can we promise that a bomb will not fall on there with F-22s and F-35s. Back to those evil minds, they start looking on those countermeasures, but we're dumping them fundamentally in a much different environment than what their teachers fought in the global war on terrorism. So, we've got to equip them with all of those capabilities. And then the last part were those drone drivers. And the cyber folks. They may not look like a battle dress uniform, they may look, you know, like somebody, and oh, by the way, they probably can't run, you know, the 2-mile run or anything like that. But they're still effective on the battlefield. And you need to understand that when we go forward.   Doug Lindsay 33:52 You've led at different levels. You've obviously learned a lot of lessons along the way. What are some of the, maybe a couple key takeaways you've learned about leadership?   Gen. Shwedo 34:00 I think the lesson is, don't forget who you are. You know, I wasn't born a general. I very much was scrubbing toilets, you know, up on the Hill. And I think going back to don't forget who you are, and being able to, you know, hey, there were there were times when we were shoveling snow. I have learned, you know, back to getting to know that your people show up when it's crappy. Don't show up only when it is convenient for you. But you showed that hey, I love you because I'll show up. And it really is: Never forget who you are. I mean, you know, you sure as hell wouldn't get that vote when you were second lieutenant. So, it's not going to change your life too much. And I think people understand when you really care about them, you know, and if you care about them, they'll do what you know, whatever needs to be done. And the last part is my airmen used to roll their eyes. Of course, you were on the hook for the vision and for the battle plan. But as I said before, these are amazing airmen, and they will do whatever needs to be done to win that fight. But I'd often tell them when they were, you know, struggling, “Look, I work for you, I'm removing your impediments so you can do that, you know, kill the bad guys.” And you know, I've made a career out of playing practical jokes on bad guys, because these guys were really good at it. But when I'd say, “I work for you…” they roll their eyes. But eventually they understood that if there wasn't enough gas here, if there wasn't, remove those impediments, so they can do that. And so that was something that I did as a lieutenant, captain, I've been pretty good at it, you know, up to this point.   Doug Lindsay 35:38 So, and it really helps that value proposition, they feel like they really are part of a team. Now, do they matter regardless of the, of the level of the organization?   Gen. Shwedo 35:45 Absolutely. And, you know, to understand and, you know, the military, on the Army side, you know, the leaders eat last. I've got numerous Army brothers; I don't like talking about it. But all kidding aside, there's a lesson there. And you know, be humble and understand that you really do work for those guys, because they are doing the mission. And once you do that, and once they understand that they no-lie will remove those impediments and, no-lie, they do care about you, you'll be amazed what kind of feats that you'll see happen on the other end.   Doug Lindsay 36:19 Well, thank you for that. Any final thoughts or anything we didn't talk about that you want to talk about?   Gen. Shwedo 36:23 No, I can't thank you guys enough for the opportunity and, you know, asking about the Institute for Future Conflict. Honestly, everything they've done has nothing to do with me and everything to do with this command team here because they have given me all the opportunities. From Gen. Clark, the Dean, the, you know, the comm and the Department of Athletics and people kind of have a furrowed brow. Yes, we have, we have a focus on the Department of Athletics, too. So, thanks for the opportunity so I can share with you with all the great things they're doing to make our cadets ready for that future fight.   Doug Lindsay 36:55 Appreciate that. And appreciate your example and what you're doing with that. If people want to connect with you or get in touch with the IFC and find out kind of what's going on, what's the best way for them?   Gen. Shwedo 37:04 Absolutely. So, if you just Google Institute for Future Conflict, it'll come up. And then on the bottom, you'll see a couple of lieutenant's names. Luckily, and I tease them all the time — I compare and contrast me, coaching, football and teaching boxing and unarmed combat and you're getting two different worlds. But they often are the ones that we tease them and go, they're the real bosses of the IFC, they'll get back to us on what we need to do or to answer questions or anything along those lines.   Doug Lindsay 37:34 That's great. And I know that Checkpoints magazine has a three-part series that's coming out that kind of amplifies some of the people and some of the team members that you built on there that you mentioned as well today. Looking forward to that.   Gen. Shwedo 37:46 So lastly, there's not that many Shwedo's in the globe — you can find me fairly quickly.   Doug Lindsay 37:48 That's great. Well, we thank you for your time. Thank you for your legacy. Thank you for all that you're doing for the Academy.   Gen. Shwedo 37:55 Thanks for the opportunity. Thanks a lot.   KEYWORDS cadets, leadership, Air Force Academy, cyber, IFC, learned, Academy, warfare, conflict, 21st century, understand, opportunity, missiles, led, future, football, Air Force, airmen, work, leaders, studied, history, West Wing     The Long Blue Line Podcast Network is presented by the U.S. Air Force Academy Association and Foundation     

"Any storied franchise that would love to get on board and continue to add more value to the brand they have already created would be a huge milestone.” -Antoine Hood II, USAFA ‘06 Antoine Hood II is a professional basketball player, cancer survivor, published writer, U.S. Air Force Academy graduate, and military officer. As an NBA free agent guard, Antoine has played in preseason/training camp for the San Antonio Spurs and Denver Nuggets. He has excelled in the hoops world, starring on a select USA basketball team playing in China, excelling with international pro teams, and earning Mountain West all-conference honors. As a published writer, Antoine's most recent work is a thought-provoking book of poetry titled Hood Thoughts II. He continues to serve his country as an officer in the US Air Force Reserves. As a cancer survivor, Antoine has faced and defeated life-threatening adversity. He recently launched his new business, Iondration, which has a line of customizable water bottles tailored for the sports market. In this episode, we discuss: Antoine's journey to playing basketball at the Air Force Academy His new startup, Iondration, and his vision for the product His goals for Iondration in 2024  The moment as an entrepreneur that gave Antoine affirmation for his idea Antoine's experiences playing against some basketball greats and what he learned about mental capacity, fortitude, durability, and consistency During his time playing professional basketball, Antoine learned that one's mental game is what takes someone from good to great. Having strong mental capacity, fortitude, durability, and consistency allows professional athletes to achieve greatness, but this also can be applied to entrepreneurship. Those lessons Antoine learned while playing hoops are bringing him to the next level with his startup. From basketball, to poetry, to his new innovative product, we enjoyed chatting with Antoine about the different facets of his life and career. Thanks for joining us, Antoine!  Connect with Antoine: LinkedIn X: @antoinehood26 Instagram: hoodwinked06 Facebook: Antoine Hood II Hood Thoughts II on Amazon antoinehood@gmail.com If you found this episode valuable, please share it with a friend or colleague. If you are a Service Academy graduate and want to take your business to the next level, you can join our supportive community and get started today. Subscribe and help out the show: Subscribe on Apple Podcasts Also available on Google Podcasts, Spotify & Stitcher Leave us a 5-star review! Special thanks to Antoine for joining me this week. Until next time! -Scott Mackes, USNA '01

3rd generation warrior, RC-135 pilot, and thought leader, Major Nathan Dial '10, describes his connection to USAFA, his bond with the cadets and how the leadership lessons he learned fuel his drive to serve and support the Long Blue Line. ----more---- SUMMARY Major Dial shares his journey from growing up in a military family to attending the Air Force Academy and becoming a leader in the Air Force. He emphasizes the importance of relationships, approachability, and accountability in leadership. He's kept his connection to the Academy through mentoring cadets and serving on the Association of Graduates board. He is continuously learning and contributing to the discourse through research and writing. Major Dial also discusses the challenges and responsibilities of leadership, including the need to practice what you preach and prioritize personal development, controlling the controllables and dealing with adversity. Finally, the conversation concludes with a discussion on whether leaders are born or made.   OUR FAVORITE QUOTES "Relationships really matter. I think some of my successes would not be available without classmates or upperclassmen who poured into me or offered opportunities or offered help along the way." "Control the controllables. And by that, I mean you control your energy, you control your attitude, you control your effort. And most importantly, you control how you respond to adversity." "Don't be afraid to be vulnerable. Now, you can't be oversharing. But, you're going to know those spots where you can be vulnerable." "I'm a big believer in that you need reps. I think to really hone your skills, your potential, I think you have to have some type of environment that nurtures that out of you." "I think all the best leaders I saw, whether it was cadets or staff or faculty or AOCs, were all approachable and accountable."  - Major Nathan Dial '10   NATE ON OPRAH, AGE 11, APRIL 15, 1999   SHARE THIS EPISODE  FACEBOOK  |  LINKEDIN  |  TWITTER  |  EMAIL   CHAPTERS 00:00:  Introduction and Background 01:32:  Early Life and Influences 03:06:  Choosing the Air Force Academy 05:04:  Journey at the Academy 09:08:  Leadership Development at the Academy 12:50:  Staying Connected to the Academy 18:05:  Leadership Principles 20:20:  Giving Back to the Academy 24:06:  Navigating Highs and Lows 27:40:  Influence of Background on Leadership 29:37:  Making Time for Others 34:06:  Contributing to the Discourse 36:35:  Challenges and Responsibility of Leadership 38:52:  Practicing What You Preach 39:24:  Personal Development and Growth 40:24:  Balancing Personal Interests 41:00:  Controlling the Controllables 42:18:  Dealing with Adversity 43:20:  The Talk: Passing Down Wisdom   OUR FAVORITE TAKEAWAYS - Building strong relationships and treating people with respect are essential in leadership. - Leaders should be approachable and accountable to foster trust and accomplish goals. - Continuous learning and contributing to the discourse are important for personal and professional growth. - Leaders have a responsibility to navigate challenges, practice what they preach, and prioritize their own development. - Balance personal interests to maintain a well-rounded life. - Control the controllables, including energy, attitude, effort, and response to adversity. - Adversity can be a catalyst for growth and empathy. - Passing down wisdom through 'The Talk' is an important tradition that evolves with time. - Leaders are made through nurturing and developing their skills and experiences.     NATE'S BIO 14-year Active-Duty Air Force Officer, Combat Pilot, PhD with a concentration on NATO in the 21st Century. Well-versed in qualitative and quantitative research of public policy and sports analytics. Interested in opportunities advising/helping think-tanks, startups, boards, and private companies analyze, break down, and solve complex problems.  US Air Force Academy 2010  Harvard Kennedy School MPP 2012  ENJJPT 2013  Northwestern Political Science, Ph.D. 2021 ASG Rising Leader 2022 EC-130 Pilot  RC-135 Pilot Facebook:  Nathan Dial  |  Twitter:  therealnatedial  |  Instagram:  dial_like_thesoap  |  Linkedin:  Nathan Dial - Bio copy and image credit:  www.drnathandial.com  CONNECT WITH NATE  |  LEARN MORE  | AN IMPRESSIVE BODY OF WORK   ABOUT LONG BLUE LEADERSHIP Long Blue Leadership drops every two weeks on Tuesdays and is available on Apple Podcasts, TuneIn + Alexa, Spotify and all your favorite podcast platforms. Search @AirForceGrads on your favorite social channels for Long Blue Leadership news and updates!   FULL TRANSCRIPT SPEAKERS Our host is Dr. Doug Lindsay '92  |  Our guest is Major Nathan Dial '10   Maj. Nate Dial  00:00 I think we all have strengths, weaknesses. And so, being authentic to yourself of how are you building a team that highlights your strengths and weaknesses and being self-reflecting self-critical and doing what those are. So, I think that's probably the first thing I think for any leader. I think all the best ones I've been around have all been very, very self-aware. And so, I think that will be the challenge. I think for everybody, how are you self-aware around strengths or weaknesses. Don't be afraid to be vulnerable. I think, you know, you're gonna kind of pick and choose those moments. You'll know those moments. And so, I would try to tell people as they try to think about that.   Doug Lindsay  01:13 My guest today is major Nate Dial, a 2010 graduate of the Air Force Academy, with a bachelor's degree in economics. As a cadet, he was the fall 2009 Cadet Wing Commander, who was also the summer 2009 Basic Cadet Training Director of Operations, soaring instructor, Naval Academy exchange cadet, and he even spent a summer in Peru in an immersion program. He's a 13-year active-duty Air Force officer currently flying RC-135 reconnaissance aircraft out of Omaha, Nebraska. Major Dial's desire to feed his mind and grow as a leader is pretty insatiable. He earned a Master's in Public Policy from the Harvard Kennedy School in 2012. He completed the Euro NATO joint jet pilot training program in 2013. And he even received a doctorate in political science in 2021, with his concentration being on NATO in the 21st century. He is a 2021 Air Force Academy Young Alumni Excellence Award winner, and in 2022, completed the Aspen Strategy Group Rising Leaders program. He is a student and analyst of public policy, and commits time to solving the complex problems that think tank startups' boards and private companies sometimes face. He is also a member of the United States Air Force Academy Association of Graduates' board of directors. Major Dial, thank you for being with us today on the Long Blue Leadership podcast.   Maj. Nate Dial  02:32 Happy to be here. Looking forward to the conversation.   Doug Lindsay  02:35 Do you mind telling us a little bit about where you grew up, you know, kind of where you started and what that was like, and what kind of influences had an impact on you when you started?   Maj. Nate Dial  02:43 For sure. So, my dad was in the Army 30 years. And my mom is a professor who traveled the world with my dad getting a job at the local college, wherever that was. So obviously military was huge for me growing up with around a bunch of the kid. And then education was huge, too with my mom. So naturally with those two items, discipline, reading a lot. And I was a pretty decent little athlete growing up — I played basketball, golf and soccer growing up as a kid. So, you put all that together and naturally kind of led me towards a life of service and a life of service through the military with hopefully one of the academies.   Doug Lindsay  03:18 You moved around a lot during that 30 years. I'm assuming were there any places that really left an impact on your memory for you.   Maj. Nate Dial  03:25 For sure. So, just to give you a quick rundown: So, born in Buffalo, New York, spent time in Seoul, Korea; Richmond, Virginia; Columbia, South Carolina; Carlisle, Pennsylvania; and my dad ultimately retired in '03 in Richmond — that's pretty much home now. They've been there ever since [in?] the same house. The places that stick out, everybody has a kind of an indelible mark on my life. But Richmond, Virginia, really is home. I mean, I was there kindergarten through third grade, and then I returned 10th through 12th grade. So, it's pretty much my central upbringing at this point. So that's, that's probably the place I would call closest.   Doug Lindsay  04:00 And was that idea of, kind of with your dad serving? And if I remember right, your grandfather served as well. A path for you. Is that why the Academy kind of resonate or you decided to go there? What was that thought process?   Maj. Nate Dial  04:12 That was huge for me. And so, you're trying to figure out a place to serve that you feel comfortable. As a kid, when my dad was at the Army War College from 1999 to 2003. You get to see a lot of different Academy people come through Naval Air Force army, my dad's ROTC guy from Northern Illinois. So, a lot of those people, when they would see me — especially as a kid — I played a lot of golf. So, my dad ironically didn't play a lot of golf or wasn't very good. And so, as you know, as an officer, especially, oh 506 is at the War College golf huge. And so, he would actually have to go fill in for him a lot of times because I was a pretty decent player. And so, I would be 12, 11 years old playing with these Academy guys like, “Hey, Nate, like if you keep progressing you'd be a great Academy kid.” So that was pretty much embedded in me from age of about 9 to 13. And it kind of never really shook away from me growing up, so it was always kind of in the background in the foreground for me my whole life. Like all kids around my generation, I was 6 years old, I saw “Top Gun.” So, I wanted to be the black Maverick. I wanted to go mach 2 with my hair on fire. But a couple family, friends and uncles have boats and I got seasick every time. So that eliminated the Navy. And I don't swim the greatest. Definitely eliminated the Naval Academy. I didn't like camping as a kid either. And so, my dad, being an Army guy, was like, “You're just not built for it. You're not built to be an Army. So, you should do that we do the Air Force Academy thing.” It's kind of matched up to the dad's wishes, and also my desire to fly. The Air Force Academy was the only Academy I applied to; I only did that in Air Force ROTC coming out of high school. So, I was pretty determined that that was my direction.   Doug Lindsay  05:42 When did this idea of leadership really kind of start to come on if you could spend a little bit of time talking about that?   Maj. Nate Dial  05:48 Yeah, I'll kind of back up in time on that one in terms of service and leadership. It really started when I was 12 years old. So, in fifth grade, again, moved around a lot. So, I went from a really affluent area in Chesterfield County in the suburb of Richmond, Virginia, to Carlisle, and went from a brand-new school with one of the best libraries you could ever imagine to a not-as-great school and not a great a very old library. And so, as a huge reader as a kid, I was pretty determined to try to help and try to figure out a way to improve that library at the school I was at and Carlisle. And so, I was inspired by Oprah Winfrey; she had this campaign going at the time where she put these large water jugs in the 50 largest malls in America and said, “Hey, people, just throw your loose change in these jugs and our goal is to try to send 50 kids to college.” And they ended up raising a ton of money — enough to send 56 Honestly, kids to college. And that really resonated with me as a kid, I was like, I want to do something like this on a smaller scale for my elementary school to raise money for books. So, I had this idea. I pitched it to people at my dad and mom's work, and they agreed to match whatever money we raised at my local school to buy books for kids. And so, I made this presentation to the school principal and he said we had other funds coming in — “We're not really interested in your program that you want to try to pitch us on.” I continue to read and kind of do it on a local level in my own house; I ended up having over the course of the year about 120 150 bucks that I made, got the matching from my mom and dad's work, and then bought books for every kid in my elementary school class. And so, I wrote Oprah about it and about she inspired me everything else. And then she had me on the show and then donated $5,000, worth of books in my name. And so, at that point, it really kind of made a mark on me of, you know, you can make an impact on this world if you're passionate inspired about a problem or a challenge that you want to go solve. And so, I think that as a 12-year-old kind of got that going in me. And so, it was kind of always looking around places. And so, given the dad service, and then all the absolutely amazing opportunity at the Air Force Academy that kind of led me towards that of like this place will help me go to my highest of heights, whatever is possible for me for sure.   Doug Lindsay  08:08 That idea of wanting to make a difference, right? Why did you feel that calling to want to do that?   Maj. Nate Dial  08:14 I'm not sure if it's really like, “Why me?” I think it's more like, “Why not?” It's kind of how I would answer that. And my parents were always really good about anything that I was passionate about, if nurturing, and if it's educational. If it was about impact, my parents really nurtured it. And they were like, OK, like, let's continue to explore, like, let's ask questions, like, help you. And so, I think having a foundation of a family like that, that didn't put any limits on me and said, “We want to nurture that desire to help.” I think that's probably the why — was that I had this idea. My parents didn't shut it down or poopoo it; they were actually like, yeah, they put gasoline on the fire — let me go burn a little bit more. So that was probably how I would say that's the why. What drew me to the academy over other schools was, I wasn't going to be judged just on my academic performance. It was the academics, it was the military, it was the athletics, it was the leadership. There was so much going on there that I was very much a busybody as a kid. And going there was going to be able to feed that busy bardenas Because there's so much going on, there's 36 hours' worth of things to do what a 24 hour day. So, you were never going to be bored at that institution. So, that really spoke to me. And what's also nice about that, too, is when you have a bad performance, let's say in a Physics 215 class, you can take your frustration down on the intramural field, or help instruct somebody as a soaring IP. So, I think that ability to try to nurture every piece of my brain, any kind of desire I had, was awesome there. So, I think it was just super enriching because again, I would talk about the Academy is it's a, it's a will issue, not a skill issue — that if you have a willpower, there's people at that place that want to help you get there and want to help you succeed. Whether that's your classmates, your upperclassmen are the instructors, people really invested in people becoming their best selves. So, I think that's how I would probably encapsulate my journey there.   Doug Lindsay  10:08 And so there was obviously the individual drive from yourself. But did your faculty staff play a role in that? I mean, how did that shape how you showed up as a cadet?   Maj. Nate Dial  10:17 Yeah, huge. So, I was a track, I think my first two years at the Academy, and my career got ended because of two knee surgeries. So that happened. But what spoke to me around the track team was the late Ralph Lindeman, who was the coach there for many, many years. When you're in your offseason there, he gave you every Wednesday off to go to EI. And so, I always helped me as a freshman understand that athletics isn't my job, my job is school and being the best kid that I can be. And so, I think that's me with a really big foundation around like how to balance and compartmentalize the many parts of your life. So, that was a great foundation as a freshman have, I have this athletic performance I have to do. But at the same time, at the end of the day, like, I'm still a student, I needed to get the best grades I can get, I need to try to make sure I can perform as much as I can. So, I think having that was really huge for me initially. So, that was a great foundation, and an amazing AOC. My freshman year was all about performance. And so, he was a pilot beat to pilot and he was about the numbers. And so, I was a pretty good performer in terms of, like, the knowledge test and my academics and athletics. And so, he was much like, “Hey, man, based on your numbers, like, you can go as far as you want at this place.” And I never really thought about that until we really sat me down and [he?] told me that after my first semester, so that again, like, continue to fuel the fire of, like, just keep pushing the envelope and do as best as you can here. And then the same like my sophomore in junior year at an amazing AOC F 16 pilot type, who continued to nurture me. And then my senior year, my IOC was a maintainer who, again, like, just gave me a lot of that, like broader leadership around how to inspire others. So, I thought all that leadership from the AOCs was great. And then my instructors were amazing. I still talked to my adviser, and my thesis adviser to the Academy. Now, I probably sent him an update email every six months. So, those people who invest in me, I'm always very thankful. And I know I wouldn't be here without a lot of their help and, just, nurturing for sure.   Doug Lindsay  12:15 Was Cadet Wing Commander ever kind of something you've thought about? Or is it just something that kind of just happened as a byproduct  of your ability to kind of lean in and take advantage of those opportunities?   Maj. Nate Dial  12:24 Also a crazy story. So, I actually was pretty determined to leave the academy after my sophomore year. So, I just, I think everybody that sophomore year is just like the doldrums where everybody kind of just does not like that place. And I was definitely one of those people. And, you know, who's grinding, nobody cares, right? You're a 3 degree, you're not the cool freshman everybody picks on. And you've got so many more days left junior senior year that you're like, “I'm just out on this place.” So, I applied to a couple of universities to transfer and there was two other friends of mine who were doing the same thing and we were helping each other out. The other two people ended up leaving — one went to [the University of Pennsylvania]. And one went to UCLA. But I ended up staying. And so, I just kind of prayed about it and said, “Hey, you know, should I leave? Or should I stay.” And I made a pact with God that if I got into a couple of different programs, I would stay because it meant that I was doing really well. So, I was soaring IP, a Navy exchange, and then it was the summer immersion to Peru. If I got all three of those. I was like, “I have to stay, like, I'm just doing so well here. And it's such an amazing opportunity. You got to kind of have to stay.” And so, I stayed. I went to the Naval Academy. And while I always wanted to go there. And back on the East Coast, I'm seeing a ton of my friends on the weekend who I grew up with, being a Virginia kid, I was absolutely miserable at the Naval Academy. I don't want to get too much into I but it was bad. It was bad in terms of the kids I had a room with weren't the greatest. There's tons of rules. They're how they trained freshmen is so different than how we do. The culture is very different. And so, it actually made me appreciate the Academy that much more. And I got back to the Academy my second semester, junior year after the exchange, and I was like, “We got to make this place fun. Like you guys. We don't know how great we have it here compared to the other academies.” And so I was on this campaign of like, we got to make being a cadet fun again, like that's what we got to do. And maybe people appreciate this place. And so, I remember talking to my IOC at the time, and having this kind of epiphany that no, this place is awesome. I'm so happy to be here. This is great. So, it's so much awesome opportunity here. You know, “What job should I apply for as a senior?” and he was like, “Nate, like, you should apply for wing commander. That's like “Nah, I'm not that guy. I'm not that person.” And then he kind of broke down whatever the cadet equivalent to a surf was. And then just that kind of inspiration that I had the time to try to help him make it a better place for cadets and he was like to take that energy and try to pour into the cadet wing I think it'd be great for him and so his again his fuel to the fire for be maybe think about it and then we're pretty determined person so once I kind of get myself locked onto a vector then I give it my best effort.   Doug Lindsay  15:01 Did it end up working out? You kind of had that epiphany — that kind of figuring it out of I own this, right, this is me and what I can do, and I'm gonna make the most out of it, You came to the Academy, did you know that flying was the way to go? Maj. Nate Dial  15:12 One-hundred percent. I mean, I set up for the Academy to fly, pretty standard person. And that way, I got to appreciate it more though, because I had this really interesting peanut allergy. And there was a time where I didn't think I was able to fly because of this peanut allergy. And so, I didn't go through all these DOM or physicals which I'll describe what it was, I had to eat peanut butter over the course of eight hours, and every 20 minutes, they doubled the dose started with an eighth of a teaspoon all the way up to a half a cup. And they had all the like the gonads on me that monitor everything. And so, that was like the ultimate last test — I had to do the past to make sure I'd you know, wouldn't die if I ate peanut butter, I guess in the plane or have like some type of shock or incapacitation. So, I passed that. But that, like, 3-month process of all the physical tests I had to do around this peanut allergy had me really thinking about what else what I would do. And I just felt really fortunate to be able to get through that and so be able to live my dream. And so, I really do empathize with people who have some type of medical issue who got to the Academy, thought they were gonna be able to fly, then found out later that they couldn't, and then, you know, what do they do next? And so having had that journey, I can definitely empathize with cadets who have that I've talked to decent people who've had that.   Doug Lindsay  16:30 With the success that you had at the Academy, what were some of the, maybe the leadership principles that you pulled out of your time at the Academy.   Maj. Nate Dial  16:38 The first thing I would say is, relationships really matter. I think some of my successes would not be available without classmates or upperclassmen who poured into me or offered opportunities or offered help along the way. I think we all can talk about as grads, people who are still in our lives, right, they're the best men in our wedding, the groomsmen in our wedding or bridesmaids in our weddings, right? That's kind of how it works out. So that kind of family atmosphere there, it's very important, and the relationships matter too because you're going to fast forward from graduation, you know, eight, nine, 10 years, you're going to weapon school with these people, you're in combat with those people, you're in on the radio. So, having that relationship builds trust and builds Trumps means accomplishing whatever the goal is, or the mission, especially in hard times. So, I would say relationships matter. Therefore, how you treat people is very important. When in doubt, take the high road. When in doubt, err on the side of grace. Those are the kind of messages that would tell somebody. So, that's a very interpersonal skill I would talk about for the leadership part of it. And then the second thing I would talk about is being approachable and accountable. I think all the best leaders I saw, whether it was cadets, or staff, or faculty, or AOCs, were all approachable and accountable. So, I thought those were the two things I would hang my hat on going forward. And they just understand that you'll get better with reps. So, putting yourself out there, trying new things out, not being afraid to fail. When in doubt, ask questions to people who've already been there before. I think those are probably the biggest things I've definitely learned as a cadet.   Doug Lindsay  18:11 You graduated in 2010. You kind of went off doing the flying thing. Very intentionally you have stayed connected to the Academy.   Maj. Nate Dial  18:20 It's hard to give you a “why” but I can kind of give you a feeling I think of the why. So, the feeling I can talk about in this is around kind of like your first relationship with a significant other, where you have all the highs or the lows, you care about that person a lot. Even if you go your separate ways to something else, you always kind of keep tabs and you want to make sure that person is in a better place than when you whenever you kind of broke up or did something different. It's kind of the same way I feel about USAFA. It's the first decision that I made on my own was choosing to go to that school, obviously, I talked about choosing to stay to and stay committed to it and that process. And I knew I wouldn't be here without those four years. And so, I think that kind of feeling of connection and that relationship being such an integral part of my life — I could never really just separate away from it completely. And so, I think that's part of the reason why of always staying connected and then always figuring out ways of how can I support in a way that is meaningful?   Doug Lindsay  19:27 Can you talk a little bit about some of those ways that you support in terms of what you do to kind of help give back with your time and what you do?   Maj. Nate Dial  19:34 I think like many graduates find cadets or cadets find you. So, I think it's a very basic one that I've done from Day One is given the profile. A lot of people hear about my story are interested in some of the similar things I already did. So, cadets will reach out and I could probably talk you through a litany of cadets since I've graduated who I help out with that and stay connected with this. The second thing too is obviously now with the endowment that we started. So, put money in at a small amount was $20.10, a little bit of class pride there a month into a fund that went with the EO G. And then, over time, our goal was to come back to the 10-year reunion, and then figure out what we want to do with the sum of money. So, through that program, we were able to raise $330,000, of which we put to her and 10,000 of those dollars into an endowment, that at the time 2021, you all remember COVID. Seeing some of the stories online around the cadet experience was really heartbreaking. And so, we wanted as a class to try to help with their morale. And so, we have this endowment that gives $5,000 to the No. 1 cadet squadron for their morale fun. So, it's as no strings attached you can kind of get given DoD and government. But it's if they want to redo their SAR they can do if they want to go to Chipotle and have a big Chipotle dinner, they want to go to Top Golf or rent it out with like whatever they want to do to increase their morale as a squadron. We fund that with $5,000 every semester. And so that's a way of giving back if you're trying to find we have these funds, we have a need of the cadets. And so that's how our class decided to do that. And I just know, I'm a connector, I'm a conduit for that. So, I'm able to help with that. And then obviously, recently, this past May, when some people on the board call it so it wouldn't be an appointment or on the cog board jumped at the opportunity to try to lend my services and ideas for sure.   Doug Lindsay  21:31 There were highs and there were lows. To have those highs and really have those successes, we've got to understand those kind of low points too, and who we are. And it sounds like the highs may not have been possible if you didn't kind of sort through those lows as well, right?   Maj. Nate Dial  21:45 For sure. I think it's Conor McGregor's Trainer that has a book that either we're winning or we're learning, we're accomplishing the goals, and you're gonna get some things out of it. I think all of my greatest growth moments come through some type of failure or hardship. And so, I think I'll give an example as a cadet right is, I had never done poorly, right, academically, but I remember failing a GR in a super high level Spanish class as a freshman that I, like, I validated into. And so, it was the first time where I had to humble myself and ask for help. I was the only non-native Spanish speaker in this class. And so, asking people for help of like, “Hey, I don't get this,” or, “Hey, I need to study with somebody or something else.” I was a first time I had to humble myself in academic setting to do that. And so that was an opportunity to learn of that you can't just blast off on your own. If you want to get to this place, which was get an A in this course, you're going to need to lean on some classmates and ask for help. And it'd be like, “Hey, I don't get this.” And that is a strength. And I think a lot of us, when we get to the Academy, we're also Type A personalities who are highly successful, who have a lot of positive affirmation coming into that place, it's the first time you get smacked in the face with any kind of not high performance, slash average performance, slash below average performance. And so, I think how do you recover from that is huge in the growth. And so there's tons of opportunities, like, that I can talk through at the Academy where, at the time, it was a low, but it really was something to kind of harden me for the next situation, whether that was to give empathy for another person, or it's prepared me and harden me for the next challenge that's coming second, when it comes again, then I'm successful, and he would overcome this situation.   Doug Lindsay  23:25 It sounds like, you know, from early on, you know, again, your example, your grandfather example, your father, your mother and all that, that idea of service. And that really idea of kind of giving it your all — how does that influence your leadership today?   Maj. Nate Dial  23:38 So, the first thing I tried to do is just offer two things that one, I'm available. So, this isn't a onetime relationship is what I always tried to lead with is that if I'm taking time out of my day to talk with you, whether that's in an official capacity because you're in my chain of command, or an unofficial capacity, that this isn't a onetime conversation, that I understand that not everybody is prepared or has questions or answers or challenges right now, that might come in the future. So, hey, I'm available when future things happen, if I'm the person that you want to come to with these things you think I can help. So, that's the first thing of establishing that is, this is a lifetime relationship. If as long as you want to tap back in, you got me that I'm here. So, I think having that kind of long-distance trust is really huge to establish to you're saying it's a journey that people are going to it's cyclical that we're going to have certain periods or seasons in life. And then the second one is: I normally try to lead with how can I help you? Because I think a lot of times we want to give people advice and not try to answer people's questions. And so, I tried to lead with answering your questions of, “Hey, like, how can I help?” and sometimes it'll lead you to a lot of places, but I want to just be impactful. I want to leave everybody when I meet them better than when they before they met me. And same with every organization will leave every organization better than when I entered it. That's kind of the goal is every time.   Doug Lindsay  24:59 How do you find time to do that? Or how do you make time to make sure that you're setting the time to be available to folks when they need it?   Maj. Nate Dial  25:07 It's gotten crazier over the years. And my wife is really good about this in terms of helping me schedule my own time. But I have a literally a standing 6-hour window every Sunday from after church to like 11 o'clock to 1700 to 5:00 p.m. every Sunday, that I just block out for people to be available. So, people hit me up and say, “Hey, Nate, I was like, well, x, y, or z.” And I just send them, “Hey, this is the time blocks, the next couple Sundays. Let me know when you want to fill in.” And so, I kind of compartmentalize that, because another part I think of leadership is being fully present. So, we're all super busy as you're talking about. But for that six hours, I am yours, for whatever block of time, 30 minutes, hour or 45 minutes, I am yours. And I'm fully committed. And if you ever read ahead for me, I've prepped for that for 1015 minutes really quickly to get myself smart on it. And then I'm here and I'm available. So, I think having a dedicated predictable time for people is heavy. And then I always tell people to, like — if you email me, give me, like, 72 hours, but I never know what's going on in the world. But pretty much now we're always connected to the internet. So, it sent me two hours, I'll see it now even I'm busy. I'll tell you, “Hey, I'm super busy. I'll get back to you in (insert timetable).” But I try to make it predictable, and then hold myself very accountable to those times.   Doug Lindsay  26:20 So, you put that block of time there, right, where you're really being fully present and investing. What is it that you've taken away from that intentionality on time to be with other people?   Maj. Nate Dial  26:29 Ninety-five percent of the time it's enriching. Because I am a classic extrovert, people energize me. So that's all start with that. And most times, people are really inspiring, whether it's some of these new cool things that they're doing, or they're trying to pursue that it's like, "Oh, man, that's awesome. I hope that person gets there.” Or I'm inspired by their tenacity to try to overcome something or get there. Or I'm just inspired by them to keep my game up. Because when you have a mentee who's climbing these ladders and doing it, it's not like we're always keeping score, but where we got to get better. It's like, "Hey, like, I need to keep pushing the envelope,” to like, ”What am I doing right now?” If these people are calling me and asking, I can't stagnate, I gotta keep pushing too. So, it's kind of a pseudo-inspiration to kind of keep my game up, too. So, I think all the above is always really helpful. More recently, in my 30s, I have noticed and tried to make myself more available for the tougher conversations, especially with friends, as people have recently had one of my best friend's son died, who's under 2 years old. So, making time for people like that to sometimes the inspiration is just being there as a friend to be that they're willing to share their vulnerabilities with you because, right, like, it's really easy to celebrate things with others; it's kind of tough to talk about when you're not in the best places. But I think as a friend, when people can find you in those areas, that's really powerful. The older I get that people were comfortable being vulnerable with you, and trust you enough to be vulnerable with you. And so, I think those times, while they're tough emotionally, make me feel good about myself that people feel that they can come to me with those items as well. And so, we're talking about a lot about my successes, which obviously, I'm very humbled by and pray to God that they continue to go, but some of it is about how do you help people get through those turbulent times? I think those are some of the things that I think through myself that are some of the most rewarding items, when people are kind of going through those doldrums, or going through those dark places, or those valleys, of helping them get on the other end of it to be a part of that process. That's really, really, really, really powerful for me.   Doug Lindsay  28:41 You'd also mentioned that it kind of challenges you to be better. So, I've noticed what you've chosen to do both educationally you get a master's, Ph.D. Not everybody does that. So, you were kind of doing that to kind of challenge yourself mentally and intellectually, but also your writing, and you're putting out pieces — thought pieces— and research as well. What's been the impetus for that? Is it just to contribute or to continue to push yourself?   Maj. Nate Dial  29:04 My dad used to always talk to me about as a kid, don't just bring me problems bring me a problem and a solution or a potential solution. And so, when I identify items that I think are suboptimal, I think I have a duty to whatever I'm criticizing, to add to the body of work to try to get to a solution. So, talk about some of the research right on the NBA. I'm a huge basketball nerd. And so, the research I did around the impact of college basketball and McDonald's All-Americans it was because I was truly curious about is the one and done rule that great or was two years of college be optimal? Or how about more? Right? So that's a question I had. And so, I was like, “Well, I have this skill set around quant research. I'm passionate about it. So, let's push it there.” Or more recently of the debate around the best 75 players in the NBA or 70 in the 75-year history of the NBA. That paper that I put out there was OK, like how could you evaluate that more quantitatively and objectively than writers talking about how they feel about people? So those kinds of items, there are obviously the piece that did back in 2020 around race in the military. Like those are kind of identify a problem or identify a situation and just try to help move the conversation forward through my either skill sets, or works or experience.   Doug Lindsay  30:21 Nate, one of the things that you had written before was a conversation that you shared a little bit about between your grandfather and your father to you about the talk. Do you mind talking a little bit about that and sharing a little bit about what that meant to you?   Maj. Nate Dial  30:34 Sure. So, The Talk, it's a tradition where minorities explain to their adolescent child really males who are coming of age, some of the stereotypes that they gotta overcome, and try to give us some techniques of how to overcome them that they've developed over their time as an adult, or in their same situation. Talking a lot of friends, obviously, since my article published, you got a lot of highlights back in 2020, around the George Floyd summer. It's a tradition of a lot of different minorities. So, you kind of takes different shapes, but it's very similar overall concept. And so, with the talk, there's a couple of things that are pretty important is that it's dependent on time, and it changes and evolves. So, I'll use my own family as the examples that kind of talked about in the article, which is, so my grandfather was in the conscription World War II segregated enlisted military. And so, he served there, finished his tour of duty, moved to Chicago, had a GI Bill tried to use the GI Bill to buy a house and a VA loan, but couldn't because right, redlining was very apparent in Chicago. And so, you can only buy a house in certain parts of Chicago, where you get a loan. And so, you know, what he learned in his time was that what's on the piece of paper, in terms of what happens may or may not apply to you as a Black person in America in his time. So, that's what he kind of taught my dad. So, my dad has had situation he goes on to college ROTC Commission's he's out in Germany on his first assignment, and my grandfather goes and visits and so he has my dad go through the gate multiple times, and my dad at the end of it. So, the second or third time through the gate is kind of like, "Hey, Pops, what's up?” and essentially, my grandfather, so my dad is like, “I never thought I would see a day where a white enlisted member would have to salute my son,” you know? Right, showing like, OK, like this, this progress is happening. And America and so he's seeing that in real time, too. And so that kind of similar moment, I think, happened with my father and I, where my dad's probably cried in front of me, like three times his entire life. And I can definitely remember the first time which was the parade for Parents Weekend, the fall, when I was cut Wing Commander, where you come down the parade field, you're the No. 1 person coming out, you lead everybody, the 4,500 cadets, and the wing. And so after the parade happens, you talk to your family, and everybody's around. And my dad was like, visibly emotional. Because I think for him, he never thought in his wildest dreams, his son would ever have that kind of an opportunity or potential, like he thought I could get to the academy, and graduate and probably get a pilot slot and do my thing, but I don't think he ever thought I could be the cadet Wing Commander. And so I think he was just really overtaken about again, like the progress that has been made, and in our country and whatnot. So that's kind of the talk. And so I'm quite looking forward to what that looks like with my kid, right? Like, I don't have kids yet. But hopefully, God blesses me with a split some kids. And so, they'll be able to share that kind of similar moment with them. I'm really looking forward to in terms of what I've learned, but then what they're going to teach me too, about how America is progressing.   Doug Lindsay  33:46 I think a lot of times when we look at leaders, and especially successful leaders, we just assume it's all good and it's there's all this good stuff, but we don't always understand that kind of behind the scenes that sometimes you have to do is downshifts, right? It's not all up. Sometimes we have those ups and downs we've got to deal with right?   Maj. Nate Dial  34:00 One-hundred percent. And sometimes yourself taking a knee, right? Like, I'm not all here either. And being again, approachable and accountable of saying, “I'm not all here, so I need to work on me.” And in practice what you preach. I always think it's quite funny when I see squadron commanders talk about family time and balance, and then I see them in their squadron at 7:30 p.m. at night, right? If you're doing that, everybody then feels obligated to a TOS if you want balance right it's how are you practicing what you're preaching there, right? Are you leaving at 5 even though we know we have a lot of work to do, but we'll get to it tomorrow? Or hey, um, when I was a flight commander, I used to always show up at 8:15, so, like, 45 minutes afterwards, because I always worked out in the mornings based on like, I prioritize my fitness. I know the duty days or 7:30 but I'm gonna show up at 8:15 because I prioritize my health and like working out. I hope you do too. And that I would always on Fridays if I could, I'd let everybody go around like to And then just stay for the rest of the day. The treadle people have balanced around, like, hey, like, everybody else can leave, I'll handle myself on a Friday and start your weekend off now. So, try to, like — that's part of the accountability, responsibility. I think that we all, as leaders, or people, and the hardest part is practicing what you preach, especially when things get hard, is how do you sustain the idea or the principle, when sometimes the short-term benefit will feel good in the moment, but overall, for the principle or the objective, you might not be achieving that?   Doug Lindsay  35:36 What do you do for your own development, to kind of keep you sharp, you keep showing up ready for the next rep?   Maj. Nate Dial  35:42 I have a lot of mentors and friends outside of the military. And so sometimes I normally try to reach out to them of challenges that they're facing and dealing with, and asking questions around that, to try to get a feel for how different industries are dealing with certain items or friends of mine. So, that's an enriching part of it. And then I could also offer, like, some of my military experiences to those same people. So, that's kind of a nice back-and-forth of kind of intellectual jabbing, and support for one another.  A big thing for me is I start pretty much every day off 30 minutes every day with a devotional, some, again, religious so I started with the Bible, then, like, kind of meditation. So, that kind of keeps me centered, balanced every day, kind of a consistent foundation every day if I'm going to start my day. And then for the enriching part of I'm a huge biography person. So, I read biography, I think real life is always better than fiction. So, I try to read up on that, and then I'm a big self-health person, I'll go that's podcast. So, those are that but then again, to the balance part of it. I'm a huge sports guy. So, your Rich Eisens, Dan Patricks. Bomani Jones's, Stephen A Smith, like I listen to those people to try to let myself come down and be a normal person and be relatable to others who are who I lead. So, I try to nurture both sides of it, like my personal like, let's just be entertained and decompress. But also, hey, I see what else is out there.   Doug Lindsay  37:09 Sounds like there's a lot of different ways that you invest into there to make sure that you show up and be present the way you want to right? Maj. Nate Dial 100% 100%. N   Doug Lindsay  37:09 Nate, one of the things that sometimes people will have debates on is that leaders are born versus leaders are made or somewhere in between. Do you mind sharing your thoughts about kind of how you think about that based on your the work that you've done and your own practical experience or leaders born and they made? Or what does that? What does that look like?   Maj. Nate Dial  37:34 I definitely have a nurture-over-nature person. I just think too much of life has shown me that, especially around high-leverage moments, right? So there, my dad taught me something very similar. But the quotes, in easier way to articulate the idea that people don't rise to the occasion they revert to their training, so in necessitates the obvious question is, “How good is your training?” And so I think, while people could have some, like natural skill sets around leadership, I think, to hit your full potential, you've got to be nurturing that over time. And you only really get that through reps; you only get that through leadership challenge. That's why the Academy is so awesome with the leadership laboratory that we have there. And why in a lot of ways, I prefer the Air Force Academy model over West Point where West Point, a lot of their top cadets stay the same over the whole year, versus our Academy changes essentially three times the summer, the fall and the spring, because it gives more people more opportunities to have some of those leadership challenges to try to grow and develop. So, I'm a big believer in that — that you need reps to be able to get there. Could you get lucky once or twice, but I think to really hone your skills, your potential, I think you have to have some type of environment that nurtures that out of you.   Doug Lindsay  38:51 Exactly right. You know, we may all have different starting points on how we show up. But how we engage in what we do and how we do those reps and how often we do those reps are fully up to us and how we're going to how we're going to manage that right? I can't necessarily control where I start, but I can control how I finish and how I engage with the process. Right? Different for sure. A-firm. 100% agree with that. You we're successful at the Academy, you're successful in the Air Force, you're a little over midway through your career, what advice do you have for young leaders?   Maj. Nate Dial  39:20 The biggest thing is control the controllables. And so, by that, I mean you control your energy, you control your attitude, you control your effort. And most importantly, you control how you respond to adversity. People are always taking notice of that. So, if you control the controllables and you worry about you show up every day with high energy or positive energy, you give everything great effort, people are going to want to help you. People are going to see that and follow you with that. And then you control your attitude. So how do you treat people? How do you approach people? How do you operate in your day-to-day life? People respond to that. And so, I think always having that in mind of control the controllables, especially around those four items, I bet people would tell people to focus on that. And through those reps, as you get older, you'll get more tools in the toolkit. But I would start with that.   Doug Lindsay  40:12 Do you mind maybe sharing one of those adversities you faced and how you kind of move through that in terms of maybe a challenge that you faced, and you had to sit there and go, “How am I going to respond to this?” and maybe how that shaped you, or maybe a pivotal one that you wouldn't mind sharing?   Maj. Nate Dial  40:27 I'll go with, yeah, I'll start with pilot training, I think. So even though we talked about a little bit at some of these like valleys before, I never had really been in a dark place before. But pilot training was pretty dark for me, because it was the first time where I was, you know, an average or below average performer. This thing I always wanted my whole life, as we've talked about already, of being a pilot in the Air Force, I've done all the right things, and hit all the highs. You can hit educational at the Academy that to get so close to your dream and not be a great performer was rough. And so, I think part of that was a great journey of just how do you deal with that kind of adversity and not performing as you thought you would, or how you could? I was, you know, went to an 89 ride and T-6s. So, for people who aren't familiar with a pilot training that's like your, if you fail this, right, like you're out of the program, pretty much. And so, it takes some hooks to get there. And so, I was flying and got through that. So, that was kind of, you know, seeing the precipice of the cliff, and then getting yourself off of it. But what was nice about that was like the light bulb went off later, and T-38. And I had the tie for the top check ride for the initial check ride to gates at Shepherd. So, the light bulb eventually went off. And so, some of that with me, too, was being at Shepherd, it's designed to be a single seat fighter pilot place. And so, you know, just trying to deal with that whole situation there at inject was very interesting for me. Obviously, I wrote about in one of my pieces. But what that experience taught me about seeing the precipice and then coming back being somebody was trying so hard but not performing. What it helped me do? Honestly, it's empathize with people who are struggling. So, I know a lot of people who are at the Academy talk about, like, you know, “Chemistry was my crucible,” or “Water survival was my crucible,” and like, I gotta always go at it. And while I had not great performances, everything was really high, right? So, you don't get to become the cadet wing commander and not perform at a pretty high rate in the fall. So, while I had challenges, it was nothing that I didn't overcome or weren't essentially speed bumps, that was the first like, no kidding, like, I might not make it through this program moment. And so, with that, that just gave me a lot of empathy for people and allowed me to ask better questions, when especially people who are high performers who are in this weird doldrum, I can ask a lot more questions. And I kind of get some of those feelings that I felt back then. So, that's one of those challenges that I think that I would talk through around just making me a better leader were in the in when I was living in it, it felt horrible and terrible. But being on the other end of it, 2, 3, 4 years from then, and I'll give you an example. So, I had an airman who worked for me, you can fast forward see, it's probably 2016-ish, who was top linguist coming out, was a distinguished graduate of his cryptological program came to me and he was going through doing some crazy stuff, right? How to get like an article 15 from the commander or whatnot. And so, when that was happening, I just sat him down and we have a really good conversation around like, “Hey, man, like, this is weird, like, whatever this is, right now, it's not it.” And so, I got to share a little bit about my story about pilot training or whatnot. And so, we got to talk and I said, “Hey, man, so I'm gonna do usually take a week leave, go home, get away from this place, like, reset, come back and then let's, let's talk again.” So, he was able to do that. And then we put them right into the ALS program. So, that's like the airman leadership school. So, when they go from being an airman to sergeant's and our Air Force, everybody it's a it's a big kind of bridge moment for them to have educational development for their personal military education. And I challenged him. I said, “Hey, man, let's get back on this DG train. Let's, let's have this be a top performer. Again, this is your opportunity to recover, right? We, we hit this high, we got this whole group of teens, and now we're coming back. And so let's, let's make it happen.” And he finished No. 1 this class, and he was back on the train. So, I could use that example of where, you know, my personal crucible was able to hopefully help me as a leader relate to somebody and then hopefully, now granted, the kid did all the work. He's amazing; he's doing great things now. But to have a little bit of an impact on that, I think, was only because I went through my own hardship. So that's kind of that empathy that I talked about as a leader of having this moment knowing that it's going to prepare me to lead somebody in the future.   Doug Lindsay  44:44 It wasn't just that you had gone through a hardship but then you were open, honest, transparent about that as well that you were able, willing to share that aspect with him so that you can go through that process, right? So, it's just to be human about it. Anything else that you'd like to leave our listeners with respect to, you know, leadership or any other topics that we talked about today?   Maj. Nate Dial  45:08 I think the biggest thing is, just be authentic. I think we all have strengths, weaknesses. And so, being authentic to yourself of how are you building a team that highlights your strengths that covers your weaknesses, and being self-reflecting self-critical and knowing what those are? So, I think that's probably the first thing I think for any leader, I think all the best ones I've been around have all been very, very self-aware. And so, I think that will be the challenge, I think, for everybody try to how are you self-aware around strengths and weaknesses? And then, the second one is, you know, don't be afraid to be vulnerable. Now, you can't be oversharing. But you're gonna kind of know those spots where you can be vulnerable. And don't be afraid of that. Some of the — I can think about a wing commander who talked about his divorce in a public forum, and how he had to take a knee and go to mental health and everything else. I was like, that's really inspiring for where the wing commander didn't talk about that openly at an all call, I was like, “Man, that's powerful to me.” And so, I think, you know, you're gonna kind of pick and choose those moments. And I was gonna be a wing commander, but you'll know those moments. And so, I would try to tell people as I try to think about that.   Doug Lindsay  46:21 Thank you for your transparency. Thank you for your journey, and the example that you're setting for all the grads out there and everything that you do. And thank you for your time today and being on the Long Blue Leadership podcast. Nate, in case some of our listeners want to reach out to you and connect with you, do you have some social media handles or some ways that they can get a hold of you?   Maj. Nate Dial  46:38 Yeah, sure. If the first one so all the publications and whatnot are on my personal website. So that's www.drnathandial.com. So, drnathandial.com, is my personal website. You can see all the publications, my Twitter handle, where I publish a lot of things there is therealnatedial  is the handle. LinkedIn, Nathan Dial, you can find me sure if you're part of the long blue line probably have a common connection or two. So, feel free to add me there. And that's my socials and look forward to connecting with you all.   Doug Lindsay  47:12 Sounds great. Thank you so much.   Maj. Nate Dial  47:15 Thank you so much for having me and look forward to talking to you sometime in the future.   KEYWORDS people, cadet, talk, Academy, leadership, place, years, dad, Air Force Academy, put, nurture, kid, leaders, pretty, person, reps, wing commander, challenge, huge, thought   The Long Blue Line Podcast Network is presented by the U.S. Air Force Academy Association and Foundation   

“Our vision for DAG is to become that trusted go-to for clear-eyed UAS insight within the industry.”-Bill Daggett, USAFA ‘01 Bill Daggett is the Founder and Managing Director of Delta Advisory Group (DAG), a commercially focused consulting company with a concentration on emerging Unmanned Aircraft System (UAS) platforms and capabilities. DAG uses its vast operational experience, market knowledge, and extensive network to create UAS solutions that deliver real results. Bill's 24 years of service in the Air Force and Air National Guard, including time as an MQ-9 Pilot and Functional Area Manager, provided him with extensive experience in the aviation sector, including interfacing with government agencies for global missions. Bill is a 2001 graduate of the United States Air Force Academy. In this episode, we discuss: How did Bill ended up in the UAS industry his experience in the Air Force and Air National Guard The resources that are available for a company starting out in the UAS space What industry trends and unique use cases Bill is most excited about The different types of clients Delta Advisory Group works with At Delta Advisory Group, Bill and his team serve three main customer groups—founders of UAS start-up companies that have drone technology and need to develop a business plan, individuals and institutions looking to invest in the UAS space, and overseas UAS companies that are looking to enter the US market. With Bill's passion, expertise, and network, he is able to help his clients reach their goals in the industry. We learned a lot from Bill about what is happening right now in the quickly evolving UAS market. Thanks for sharing with us, Bill! Connect with Bill: LinkedIn Delta Advisory Group If you found this episode valuable, please share it with a friend or colleague. If you are a Service Academy graduate and want to take your business to the next level, you can join our supportive community and get started today. Subscribe and help out the show: Subscribe on Apple Podcasts Also available on Google Podcasts, Spotify & Stitcher Leave us a 5-star review! Special thanks to Bill for joining me this week. Until next time! -Scott Mackes, USNA '01

“Something that has been very beneficial to me was the value of a mentor, in both real estate and the private equity space.” -Neil Hoy, USAFA ‘03 Neil Hoy is an Investor Relations Specialist with VaultCap Partners, a private real estate investment firm that specializes in the acquisition, renovation, and asset management of underperforming multifamily assets in the Dallas, Texas area. VaultCap utilizes its 25 years of combined experience, market knowledge, and extensive professional network to source undervalued multifamily opportunities within high-growth markets. Neil graduated from the United States Air Force Academy and received his MA in International Relations and Affairs from the University of Oklahoma.  In this episode, we discuss: Neil's real estate investing journey and how he got started with VaultCap The types of value-add deals VaultCap invests in  The firm's short-term and long-term goals given the current real estate market What Neil has done to improve his capital-raising skills and the strategies with which he has had success Neil shares how his involvement in the community has been beneficial for him as a real estate investor. He has leveraged the strong personal relationships he has formed through volunteering in youth sports leagues and school events. Neil also shared with us how he is educating himself on capital raising strategies and the real estate industry as a whole as he settles into his new role with VaultCap Partners. We enjoyed hearing from Neil about the lessons he has learned through his real estate journey and wish him success in his next chapter with VaultCap! Connect with Neil: LinkedIn VaultCap Partners If you found this episode valuable, please share it with a friend or colleague. If you are a Service Academy graduate and want to take your business to the next level, you can join our supportive community and get started today. Subscribe and help out the show: Subscribe on Apple Podcasts Also available on Google Podcasts, Spotify & Stitcher Leave us a 5-star review! Special thanks to Neil for joining me this week. Until next time! -Scott Mackes, USNA '01

“If you can work at the foundation of the problem and understand the nature of the problem… then creating the resolution for the problem is actually really simple.” -Mandy Barbee Lanier, USAFA ‘05 Mandy Barbee Lanier is the Founder and CEO of Palladium Mind, a business through which she facilitates measurable, high-value, personal transformations for her clients. An expert in transformation work, Mandy has led a $39 million P&L at a Fortune 500 Aerospace company, as well as teams, operations, and strategic initiatives in four different commercial industries, the US State Dept, and the US military to achieve shared goals. Mandy earned her M.A. in Economics from Old Dominion University and is a  Distinguished Graduate of the United States Air Force Academy. In this episode, we discuss: Mandy's struggles with anxiety and depression and how that led to her starting Palladium Mind How Mandy successfully built up her client base for her business What Mandy does to help people figure out the source of their problems or pain The inverted pyramid that defines Palladium Mind's work, which includes information searching, healing services, coaching, and transformation work An example of how Mandy helped a client transform his beliefs by leveraging imagery and the unconscious Mandy's book, The Enjoyment Gap, that will be released in January 2024 Mandy shares how, in her purpose-based business, she helps people break patterns and reclaim inner control by tapping into the unconscious. She uses the language of the unconscious and leverages certain techniques to access the state where her client's problems reside. From there, transformation and healing can occur. We learned so much from Mandy about the power of root cause resolution and the impact she has had on the lives of others. Thank you for the important work you do, Mandy! Connect with Mandy: LinkedIn Palladium Mind If you found this episode valuable, please share it with a friend or colleague. If you are a Service Academy graduate and want to take your business to the next level, you can join our supportive community and get started today. Subscribe and help out the show: Subscribe on Apple Podcasts Also available on Google Podcasts, Spotify & Stitcher Leave us a 5-star review! Special thanks to Mandy for joining me this week. Until next time! -Scott Mackes, USNA '01