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“The people you're trying to lead may become your greatest teacher.” SUMMARY Matthew Ayers '99 believes leadership isn't about having all the answers. It's about listening, learning and serving with joy. Hear how experiences at the U.S. Air Force Academy, on a U.N. peacekeeping mission and leading Dream Centers of Colorado Springs transformed his understanding of leadership. MATTHEW'S TOP 10 LEADERSHIP LESSONS 1. Leadership Begins with Ordinary Acts Matthew's grandfather didn't set out to do extraordinary things—he simply noticed people, asked questions, and invited them in. Great leadership often begins with small acts of compassion that have lifelong impact. 2. Lead with Joy One of the defining characteristics of Matthew's grandfather was his joy. Even in difficult circumstances, he demonstrated that joy isn't the absence of hardship—it's a choice that gives others hope and the courage to move forward. 3. Stay Curious About People Matthew learned that leadership starts by genuinely wanting to know people and understand their stories. Curiosity builds trust, broadens perspective, and opens the door to meaningful relationships. 4. Integrity Is Lived, Not Signed His experience during a United Nations peacekeeping mission revealed that values aren't proven by an oath—they're revealed in everyday decisions. Leadership requires the courage to live your principles, even when circumstances become complicated. 5. Influence Doesn't Require Authority Serving alongside people outside his chain of command taught Matthew that leadership often happens through relationships rather than rank. Quiet, consistent influence can move an organization—and a mission—forward one conversation at a time. 6. Presence Is Sometimes the Greatest Gift Whether comforting cadets during tragedy or supporting people in crisis, Matthew discovered that leaders don't always need the perfect words. Simply showing up and being present can have a lasting impact. 7. Listen Before You Lead Matthew's work reinforced that the people closest to the problem often hold the clearest vision for the solution. Leaders who listen deeply make better decisions because they're willing to learn before they act. 8. Let Others Become Your Teachers One of the most powerful themes of the episode is that leadership is not about always being the teacher. Matthew believes the people we serve—and the people we lead—often become our greatest teachers if we're humble enough to learn from them. 9. Transformation Happens Through Action Leadership isn't mastered in a classroom alone. Matthew reminds us that principles become convictions only when we wrestle with them in real life, applying them through service, relationships, and everyday decisions. 10. Leave People Better Than You Found Them Looking back on his grandfather's influence, Matthew's own leadership philosophy comes into focus: serve others with humility, model joy, remain teachable, and help people flourish. The greatest legacy a leader leaves is the positive impact they have on the lives of others. CHAPTERS 00:00:00 – Opening: Sometimes the Greatest Teachers Aren't the Ones We Expect 00:00:53 – Meet Matthew Ayers, USAFA Class of 1999 00:01:38 – The Story That Changed Everything: Grandpa, Joy & Two Strangers 00:08:47 – Justice Begins at Home: Lessons Passed from One Generation to the Next 00:15:12 – Ethiopia: When Integrity Is Tested in the Real World 00:24:31 – The Difference Between Signing an Oath and Living It 00:31:26 – The Child Who Became the Teacher 00:39:08 – Why Great Leaders Never Stop Being Students 00:45:51 – Leading Through Joy, Compassion & Presence 00:52:37 – Leadership in Practice: Listening Before Leading 00:58:44 – Matthew's Leadership Philosophy 01:03:28 – Advice to His Younger Self 01:06:14 – Final Reflections: Leave People Better Than You Found Them   ABOUT MATTHEW BIO Matthew Ayers, USAFA Class of 1999, is the founder and CEO of Dream Centers, a Colorado Springs nonprofit dedicated to serving women, children, and families through comprehensive healthcare, behavioral health services, and transformational housing. Before founding Dream Centers in 2011, Matthew served as an Air Force officer, managed air and space programs, taught at the U.S. Air Force Academy, and deployed as an unarmed military observer with the United Nations Mission in Ethiopia and Eritrea. A passionate student of leadership, theology, and community development, Matthew believes the most meaningful leadership begins with humility, service, and a willingness to learn from others. Through his work and volunteer service, he continues to champion innovative approaches that strengthen families, empower communities, and create lasting change. Matthew lives in Colorado Springs with his wife, Amber, and their two children, Zeke and Halle Joy. CONNECT WITH MATTHEW LINKEDIN  |  DREAM CENTERS CONNECT WITH THE LONG BLUE LINE PODCAST NETWORK TEAM Ted Robertson | Producer and Editor:  Ted.Robertson@USAFA.org Send your feedback or nominate a guest: socialmedia@usafa.org Please note: we are only considering USAFA graduates as guests at this time. Ryan Hall | Director:  Ryan.Hall@USAFA.org  Bryan Grossman | Copy Editor:  Bryan.Grossman@USAFA.org Wyatt Hornsby | Executive Producer:  Wyatt.Hornsby@USAFA.org     ALL PAST LBL EPISODES  |  ALL LBLPN PRODUCTIONS AVAILABLE AT USAFA.ORG/LONGBLUELEADERSHIP AND ON ALL MAJOR PODCAST PLATFORMS   FULL TRANSCRIPT Guest: Lt. Col. (Ret.) Matthew Ayers '99  |  Host: Lt. Col. (Ret.) Naviere Walkewicz '99 Lt. Col. (Ret.) Naviere Walkewicz 0:00 Sometimes the greatest leadership lesson isn't learning how to teach others; it's discovering that the people you're trying to lead may become your greatest teacher. I'm Naviere Walkewicz, Class of '99 — Long Blue Leadership starts now. Well, welcome. Our guest today is Matthew Ayers, class of '99. Yes, my classmate. Welcome, welcome to Long Blue Leadership. Let me tell you about Matthew from his military service, where he served in international peacekeeping. Then he went into the classrooms of Fairchild Hall, onto leading an organization called Dream Centers, where he's the CEO, really focusing on a vulnerable set of our community. It's such a pleasure to have you here today, Matthew. Matthew Ayers 0:46 Love being here. Thank you, Naviere. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 0:48 Absolutely. Well, we're going to jump right in because your story is so unique and so personal. I'd like to take us back in time and talk about your grandfather. I know we had some time talking about him, but I think it's well worth that our listeners and our watchers get to know him a little bit more as well. Let's talk about your grandfather and maybe a particular act of courage. Matthew Ayers 1:09 OK, yeah, he's my hero, and I always continue to this day trying to live life like my grandpa. He just was so inspirational in the way he lived, and he's a very relational servant leader. He pastored most of his life in the Pacific Northwest, but his beginnings were in Wuhan, China, where he was born and raised, and moved to the U.S. when he was 15. Got on a back of a cargo ship, and he and his brother John made their way here. He built railroad with the CCC and flipped burgers, put himself through high school, college, seminary, and he's just got an amazing life. But when I got to know my grandpa as a little boy, he was smoking cigarettes like a chimney and in the local bowling league and playing cards with his neighbors. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 2:01 I can visualize this man. Yes. Yes. Matthew Ayers 2:06 He was just everybody's person, and he could hang out with anyone. No one was a stranger, and he was genuinely curious about everyone he met. And so he just modeled that with such joy. I just grew up thinking I want to be like my grandpa. He's an amazing guy, And so I've got unlimited stories about him, about someone that really has left a mark on my life, and I was 11 years old, and we were pretty new, about a year or so into living in central Washington State. And he came to guest preach at a local church there, and when he came to visit, of course, we would always go to a local Chinese restaurant.   Col. Naviere Walkewicz 2:53 And did he say it wasn't as good as when he grew up, though? Matthew Ayers 2:57 It was not nearly as good, but he still enjoyed it. He still would enjoy it wherever he went. And so he disappeared like usual, and we just knew he was back in the kitchen, probably washing dishes, hamming it up with the staff. And soon he comes back out, introducing us to staff, and we have all this free food, and he's best friends with this couple. So we were just this was like a normal experience with Grandpa, but on this particular visit, he had some pretty serious conversations after that with my parents, and he had found out that several of the staff were labor trafficked. They were new immigrants from China, and the next day, he brought me along as a little boy, we go down in our little town into a bag alley, knock on the door of a warehouse, no running water, no electricity, no amenities, dirt floor, and I see the rats running around. I'm like, "What are we doing here?” And we get to sit down with these people who are serving at this restaurant and can't speak English and do not know any way to navigate their situation. And he challenged us as a family. Well, he might have just volunteered us, but it was going to happen one way or another, that this couple ended up moving in with us, and we got to be like family with them, and had the most incredible experiences cross culturally just in our own home, and that was my first, maybe you know, shocking example of just the vulnerability of people in every community. It happens everywhere, but what was even more powerful to me about that, and what stays with me, is just how simple it really was looking back, where he just asked the question, and it seemed like such an ordinary, easy thing that that he made it out to be. And looking back, I'm like, well, that that's not easy for most people, but really, it is an ordinary thing that anyone can do. Naviere Walkewicz 5:07 Ask a question and bring someone in, right? Matthew Ayers 5:10 That's it. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 3:46 I'm thinking about you as an 11-year-old, and you said it was kind of your first real glimpse of that experience. How did that shape you as you grew up? Because they were with you, right? And so, first off, did you did you learn to speak Chinese? Matthew Ayers 5:27 No, I learned a few phrases. I should have though. I remember even the simple things like these cross-cultural miscommunications we had about ruining laundry and just doing things so differently that made us sometimes laugh and sometimes have some pretty tense moments. But it was it was all of us learning together. How do we do this? And I think one of my favorite memories was one of these people — they were they just had this incredible ability to do this unique art form of laying small colored thread, and would take months and hundreds of hours per piece of art, and just the beauty of getting to introduce into this art of her culture that was in particular from this region she was from. So we just, I mean, we had so many rich experiences like that. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 6:29 I can imagine. So taking a leap forward, what was part of your journey that led you to the Academy? And when you went to the Air Force Academy, was your goal in mind to think about how to either participate or engage in things cross culturally, or was that just part of your upbringing and your makeup? Matthew Ayers 6:50 Yeah, I thought you might ask me this, and I have nothing here. Honestly, I saw pictures of the Rocky Mountains. I love the beauty of Colorado. It just seemed magical to me, coming from this little town in central Washington, and I wanted to snowboard, so it came with some, you know, really good university education. It was a win-win. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 7:13 Yes. So getting into the Academy, you know, obviously drawn by the aesthetics. What about the service in the military do you think really called you? And would you say that started, you know, with your grandfather, or was that something else you saw throughout just your childhood? Matthew Ayers 7:29 My mom and dad modeled it well, of course. My dad found an amazing and safe place in my mom's home, where she grew up in Wenatchee, Washington, and so they really had this model of my grandpa and grandpa Paul and Lydia serving continually, and they modeled that in our home, in our community, in our neighborhood. I mean, from as young as I can remember, my dad was leading leadership camps for high school students in Washington State and doing incredible things to serve. And servant leadership, which is always kind of a part of the conversation. So it was like the water that we got to swim in. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 8:09 It seems so when you talk about your grandpa and your parents, it feels very warm and comforting and secure. And when I think about our time at USAFA, Matthew, it was — you know while it was, you know, in this ecosystem, and yes, you know, we were growing as leaders, I would say there was chaos around us, you know? How did you navigate that with such a different kind of upbringing, and by what you saw in leadership. Matthew Ayers 8:37 Yep. That is, I think, really insightful, and it's probably — it could be the most powerful part of my growing up, my formation in my family. Because my grandpa, when he did these hard things that were ordinary, but you naturally create friction in these situations where you're serving and helping and bringing cross cultures together and bringing people in need, including us. We needed to be educated in that situation, understanding what was happening in our own community and understanding how to serve. And you don't — there wasn't a formula for that, and we didn't have a lot of coaching or training. Grandpa just pulled us in, and so we learned through doing this kind of life together. And I think that that was the power of it: is that he did it with such joy. So you describe it as this warmth, and absolutely it was. And so having that mindset, I think, built this resilience in us to have joy no matter what the situation was, and to hold those things intentionally. You know, sometimes things are really difficult and sad and sorrowful, but to still be able to carry joy into those situations, you're really able to have that impact on somebody who may need that. So even coming to the Academy and experiencing that, especially the chaos of the first year, it felt like a little bit of a challenge. Like, how do we have joy through this? Col. Naviere Walkewicz 10:05 Well, I think I would have loved to be in your squadron because it sounds like you would have brought some joy to us for sure. Let's talk about after the Academy. There was a particular time while you were serving, you went on to work in — I think it was 2005 — you were part of a United Nations peacekeeping mission. Can you talk about some of that experience and how it maybe shaped you? Because I think it was a really transformational moment as well in your leadership journey. Matthew Ayers 10:33 It was. It was. I was in the acquisition career field, and so I didn't have much opportunity to go overseas, but although I really wanted to. So this was one of those few things that I could thankfully got some approval from our commander and got to apply for this mission. And in that, I had this experience of coming out of Asmara, Eritrea, and heading down to our team site, which was pretty remote near the border, just south of Eritrea, and in this very small village in a war-torn area, it was completely austere, and you basically, as military observers, you have a team site you run and you kind of manage this area that you observe with daily patrols. And so I got to be in a team site with people from Ghana and South Africa and Bangladesh, and you name it. I mean, we always had new members coming in and out from one of these 41 nations that were there. And when I arrived at the team site the first day, Adahanit was our team cleaner, and so she was hired by the local staff on our team site. And when she literally ran to me, she saw my uniform and the American flag, and she dropped to her knees and just started weeping. And she was telling me how grateful she was that an American was at her team site now, because Americans had treated her and some of her family and friends and people who were living in this village with a little more respect than they were used to, and that was my introduction to this mission, to this team site, and I just thought, “Wow, what did I step into?” Because there are obviously a lot of really interesting dynamics that I didn't necessarily expect that kind of welcome coming in. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 12:27 We take for granted what seems so normal and usual and expected, right? And so to actually see how what we're expecting can really make a difference to somebody else is really powerful. What was some of that experience like there? Can you talk a little bit more about that mission and really why it, besides that incredible greeting, why it really spoke to you? Matthew Ayers 12:52 What I came to learn over the next six months living in Shiraru was that, you know, we all of us on the mission we had this MOU, kind of a moral obligation that we signed. We had this oath that we gave and communicated. We had a lot of training, extensive training in country, and then when we arrived overseas, and it was so — I think coming from this side, we had these just very clear expectations, and I think also kind of some of the culture that we swim in is filled with moral obligations. Even just our values at the Academy, where we where we were trained, and but it's such a part of American culture. And so what I realized is that although all the soldiers from every nation get to sign this thing and take this oath, it's not necessarily something that was part of the conversations in families growing up, or a part of the water that they swam in. So our day-to-day life there was filled with this tension between what we agreed to do and what was actually happening on the ground, and those things were completely different. So we saw — I mean, I saw two nations get kicked out and dismissed from the mission for starting trafficking rings. I saw two members of our own team site, they ended up running the black market cash exchange for the entire nation of Ethiopia while I was on site. And some of these things I really struggled with. Tried to work with people to help them understand what we were doing is not helpful to locals, and even to the point of bringing some of these things up legally with some of the team at headquarters. But when they're dealing with international trafficking rings, some of those smaller things that were happening at our team site, they just — they didn't even have capacity to deal with. And so that's also tension was like, OK, we have to learn to deal with this on a one-on-one basis in our team site in the middle of several hours' drive away from anyone who has any authority over the space. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 15:06 Wow! So, how did you learn from that? What did — what changed in you, or what evolved in you? How do you grow as a leader from that? Because that's really powerful when you have a mission, and then you have these competing things happening that sometimes challenge values. Matthew Ayers 15:25 It made life so much more complicated for me. I think I went in —   Col. Naviere Walkewicz 15:28 Like, “If my grandpa was here, he simplified things really well.”    Matthew Ayers 15:33 Right. Exactly. Where is this simple answer? There really wasn't. And I remember sitting in several meetings, both formal and informal, with some of the JAGs, some of the legal team there, and just trying to untangle some of these issues and understand what would be worth our time to bring up, even to the highest levels, even if we had to go to Congress. What are some of the things that we need eyeballs here and influence here so that we can change some what's going on ground? It's really negatively impacting people's lives, and some of the things that we had to wrestle with were these larger moral questions of if we do this and we potentially raise these other issues at this particular level, we can end the mission. And we're trying to keep these two nations from destroying each other. So please don't go to this level. Work with us. We're going to work with you. We're going to give you advice, but you need to deal with this one on one with these people that you're working with and serving with, and they may not be from your country and they may not be in your chain of command, but you have at least some level of influence with them. So we need you to be courageous and we need you to have these conversations on a daily basis and help us. So those, that was powerful to me because it wasn't, you know — I at first I felt disempowered and like I don't know what I could do in this position, but over time I think little by little, you know, you can you can move the ball down the field if you stay focused -and you kind of understand the situation you're working within. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 17:11 I'm so glad you shared that because often we might think, “Well, I'm just an acquisitions officer” or “I'm just this and this is not my lane” or “This is not my role.” But I think to your point is we can all be leaders and if we stay focused and we know what we need to be doing, moving the ball down the field is still very much progress. And so thank you for sharing that. I think that was really powerful. You know, you've had so many incredible experiences. I'm curious. So, acquisitions officer, you went and did this UN mission, and somehow you ended back in the hallways of Fairchild Hall teaching cadets. Let's talk about that transition and maybe what leadership looked like after you had some of this real-world and mission experience, operational experience. How did that translate to leading cadets in the way they think, etc. Matthew Ayers 18:03 The mission, you know, sharing knowledge, sharing wisdom, sharing the things that we know we're learning in Management 101. I mean, that's important, right? Col. Naviere Walkewicz 18:13 Yeah. Matthew Ayers 18:13 But what I realized in that role too is just, and I realized this going back to our time. You know, as '99ers…   Col. Naviere Walkewicz 18:24 Gold will shine.   Matthew Ayers 18:25 …and just people who had so much influence on us. That's my always dreamed to come back. That was a dream job for me. I wanted to be back here on campus and influencing kids' lives because I think you are for the first time in your life for most of us. Then you're away from home, and you get to like have your family, your brothers, your sisters, your parents, your grandparents. You can lean on in those situations at home to help you carry that leadership. But this is the first time you get to try it out on your own. And I wanted to get to know people relationally first and build trust so that I could earn a right as little as it was to speak into anyone's life, and maybe learn from them too, because we're all coming from different backgrounds where we can learn from each other. So that environment was incredible to me because it's just so much more than sharing knowledge, right? You know you're transforming. You're part of that transformative process of a person being formed when they're standing on their own values for the first time. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 19:34 Matthew, can you share an example of maybe when you saw that come to life with a cadet and an interaction with you? Was there a time in that that when you were facilitating or when you were an instructor that you actually saw some of those seeds be received and how it actually bloomed? Matthew Ayers 19:52 My very first night on duty, I was officer on duty at night, and you know you do this. Everyone pitches in and has that role at some point or another when they're on faculty here, and there was a suicide, and I remember getting to interact in the moment as the news is, you know, in a grassroots way, very quickly moving through the Cadet Wing. And in the middle of the night, just walking the hallways and seeing kids, and just getting to put my hand on my shoulder and ask if they need to talk, can I pray? Can I support you? And hearing their stories and what they knew, and so life happens, right? No matter what position you're in, no matter where you are, and you get to show up for people where you don't, or you get scared. And I think some of those things, you know, being in Eritrea in the middle of night with people, and that I think you build a little more resilience there too when you're in some interesting situations. And it helps you step into somebody else's space and just be present and I — those are sacred memories for me and those opportunities just to be present. Didn't do anything really but just be there. And I think I'll cherish that always. And I just encourage us. You know, it again — these things seem like so challenging sometimes when you're in a, when the stakes are high and the emotions are high, but those are the most important times to stand in and be present. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 21:42 I feel this tie from your grandpa to you. This ordinary act. I will tell you, the cadets that you spent time with when you were walking the halls that evening, and you put your hand on their shoulder, or you said, "Do you need to talk?” They will take that with them, and there's a good chance that when the moment calls for that from them, they're ready because they saw it in action and they felt the importance of that. Man, thank you for sharing that incredible story. I have to think that that probably played into your decision to jump into the nonprofit space and lead something incredible like you've been doing for the past 10+ years. Matthew Ayers 22:20 If I'm honest, I was a little bit upset leaving the Air Force. I loved that job. I loved what I was doing, but of course, I did have the seed that my grandpa planted, and really, it went back to that first experience that day when he introduced us to the staff at this restaurant. And I thought, I remember making a commitment back then to say, I want to be like my grandpa, and I want to do something. I think with my life, just to interact with vulnerable people and serve them. And so that came true. I got to start some work in the nonprofit world when I got out of the Air Force, and then it led into this opportunity. And I think just casting that vision in that early season of getting out and just sharing this bigger idea of like, OK, we what does the city need? We love Colorado Springs. There's a lot of great nonprofits, and we don't want to duplicate anything. So what do we really need? And that's when I got to go on this journey of just listening to leaders all over our city and discovering what some of those things could be. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 23:29 I love that powerful listening tour. Before we jump into that, I want to just in that piece of time in which you made that transition, I'm curious on how you knew it was time. Because I think many leaders, you know, when they're in different roles, they're looking for the when is the right time for what's next, or and who do you talk to in your corner? What was that transition, and maybe that network around you or your community around you, what did that look like in navigating that decision? Matthew Ayers 1:57 So, Naviere, my life is like one example after another of I have plans in my mind, in my heart, and then they get redirected. And there's a proverb about that that says, you know, people make plans in their heart, and the Lord directs their steps. So this was another clear example of that, of me taking a while to learn what really should be the next step. And I remember the voluntary separation program, that VSP came open, that opportunity. And this is strange. So if anyone's been around the Academy or taught there, you know this. If you haven't, it is rare to have people just come by your office and small talk for a while, right? You're with cadets in your open office hours, or you're teaching, or you're preparing for something. So we're running. We're always running around. And 15 people, several of them — I couldn't have even told you their last name. I was just an acquaintance with them — stopped by my office in my open hours during the day, one after the other, asking the exact same thing: “Are you going to apply for this VSP?” Col. Naviere Walkewicz 25:12 Did you make — I mean, I can't even. That's just kind of blows my mind, right? I'm just I'm putting myself in your shoes in that moment. Yes, please continue. Matthew Ayers 25:22 Yeah. So if Anthony Pedroni is listening, he was the last one, and Tony comes in at like 7 that night in my office and asks the same exact question. We're friends. We work together in the management department. And he said, "Are you going to apply for this VSP?” I said, "No, man, I love my job. I love what I'm doing. Why would I want to leave here?” And he said, "Oh, Mr. Sensitive,” and he walked away. And when he said that, I was convicted. I had not even stopped to pray for a second. Like, is this the right thing to do? And I just knew it was, and I didn't know why. So, I, as an Enneagram 9, I try to lead with my gut instinct. That always just naturally leads first, and I just knew I needed. So I applied that night. I was one of 20 that got it. I got a call the next day, and I was out in 30 days. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 26:11 Oh my goodness. So really, it was this group around you, and then some self-reflection and prayer, and you made that decision. There was really not a lot of talk at all, it sounds like. Matthew Ayers 26:23 There was zero planning. So yeah, but I knew it was right, and I knew if — you know, I just think taking steps of faith, sometimes we need to be redirected. And looking back on my life now, I cannot imagine not doing this nonprofit work early. In my mind, the timing was retire first, be stable, make a good decision, get your retirement, then launch this nonprofit. But that's not that wasn't the best way forward. And so I would just say that for others too, where I had to be redirected, and it was so helpful for me. And that if you know you're holding on to a dream, sometimes it's good to be stable and make that, you know, what might look like a more traditional decision, and sometimes it's not. And to have the courage to be able to at least ask that question. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 27:15 I love that. So you jumped, and you have now led Dream Centers. Let's talk about this a little bit because I think many people may not know what Dream Centers of Colorado Springs is and the mission. Matthew Ayers 27:30 There's a movement across the world. There's several hundred Dream Centers, and the basic thing that ties it all together is that we share this vision that we would find a real need in a city wherever we're located that's unduplicated, and we go meet that need. So we're not the same organization as any one other of these hundreds of Dream Centers. But I got to go on that listening tour for about six months and learn as much as I could from people here before we decided what we wanted to land on. That would really be something unique and unduplicated that we could offer the city. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 28:09 Do you feel that this is another way that you continued to put on a uniform outside of the uniform, right? So this is a new way of service. Do you think that that was part of not only it was a need that you decided this is the one we're going to do and it's unduplicated, but it actually spoke to you because of your servant leadership background? Matthew Ayers 28:29 Maybe. I think honestly, going back to those roots, my parents, my grandpa. I mean, I think of my wrestling coach in high school and English teacher. They served so well, and they did it with joy. I think just to me, it was a more inspiring way to live, and so I didn't think about it like that, and I don't think about it like that. Although that's absolutely important and valuable, but I think as I as I experience the joy of learning from our clients right now and our staff, and just how rewarding the mission is, yeah, absolutely. It's about serving our community, but it is so joyous. It's — I get so much more out of it that it's like it really is a way of life that that is just incredible. I love getting up in the morning. I love what I get to do. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 29:19 So you are learning from the people you serve. You just — you were just talking about the joy that it brings you. What has changed in you? And I think about it — you know, this is Long Blue Leadership. So from a leadership capacity, because you're leading a team of professionals that's making this joy possible, but curious how it's also really, like, you know, changed you? Matthew Ayers 29:40 Man, I think I've changed every day. There's — you know, I have not had a lot of extreme or challenging situations I've dealt with in life, but I've had like a front row seat to that, and I think that I don't understand what it's like to live in a car, or to live on the street, or to experience domestic violence, or to be without food, and people are in those situations in our city every day, and they have so much to tell us about what's going on with our city, what's working, what's not. How can we improve it? How can we improve it down to the level of interactions, from phone calls and intake and how we're welcomed into a front office, to what actually is going to move the ball and make an impact in their life, and I think those are the things that we know are like adding to the quality of community, and it transfers intergenerationally in our city. So if we don't stop to learn about those things, it we're all going to be affected by that, and we're all going to be life will just not be as rewarding because it is so rewarding to be in the middle of those conversations and experiences. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 31:17 So I'm thinking about it in parallel as leaders. To your point, are you know they have colleagues or teammates that are experiencing things that they haven't. How do you navigate those conversations? How do you actually get to a place where maybe you are driving impact or making it a difference? I'm curious if you could share some of that, maybe some for those who are looking for that leadership as well. Matthew Ayers 31:41 We're always trying to do things with excellence. We're always tweaking what we're doing, and we're trying to just be steady and show up every day and learn what we can. And so I think when we have some big changes we need to make or a program we need to implement, first it needs to come from the people we're learning from, right? And it's not dreamed up without partnership there, and I think it needs to be confirmed by them as well. And so I mean, this again-it's the story of my life. But for several years at one of our programs at Mary's Home, the families we get to be with and serve and learn from were telling me about, you know, “The way that you're setting up this high-challenge, high-support program, and what we're able to accomplish here, and how we're surrounded with love and services and challenge. It is so good. Why aren't you doing that with our children? Why are you not offering the same thing for them?” And we — this was a theme, and I got to hear it over and over and over again. And they probably felt like they were being a broken record, but it was so important that they kept — they felt they had that important message to share. And it took me years of hearing that and then validating it with other people in the community, other people who had come through the program, our graduates, who had been years, you know, after launching for Mary's home, validating it, and I think that whole process was something where, for me, it felt like at least scales had to fall from my eyes. I had to really wake up to the reality of what this is because at first I was thinking there's other organizations that do this, and they continued just faithfully week after week, month after month, to have this conversation and say, “No, you — OK, so you don't really understand, Matthew, what we're talking about, so let's back up.” It was conversations like that. Like, “Let me tell you about my experience here with my children.” “Let me tell you about my experience over here at this service and why it's not working.” And so I think those, you know — it's being in touch with your customer. It's being in touch with your client. It's really — we have to be changed first if we're going to really offer something that's truly transformational. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 34:03 I love how you said you can drive change and it really make an intergenerational difference. I'm curious how your work has changed the lives of your family because I know you know you're married and you have two beautiful children. What does this legacy look like in your household? Matthew Ayers 34:22 Yeah, well I hope that I can you know at least try to live up to my grandpa's way of being. And so like when we're around work, that our kids it feels like a normal thing to do, just to be in service and to be engaged, to be in touch with what's going on in our community, and that it feels normal to come to work and have that warmth and have that encouragement and see models of people just doing normal things that we may if we don't have those models otherwise they seem maybe difficult for a little distant from us. And sometimes they're actually closer than we realize and we just keep them distant because it reminds us of just how maybe vulnerable we are sometimes, or maybe a memory like going back to our childhood that could be implicit. You know, before we're even four, and we remember it with our mind. Our body is remembering it with our emotions, and we're and so we get scared sometimes, and we don't even know why to engage with some big challenges in our city. And that's what I think. Yeah, the day-to-day stuff I want to model for Zeke and Halle Joy are just — you know, this is this is actually super rewarding, and it's one of the best things in the world you can do. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 35:40 So, Matthew, if we can go back in time, and you could talk to your 11-year-old self, what might you tell him today? Matthew Ayers 35:46 I think knowing what I know now and seeing what's possible, what transformation, what kinds of things, and just that we've been able to do with our partners in the city, through Dream Centers, going back to that, all that may seem really daunting and just incredibly tough to imagine or even think about as 11-year-old. But I think I would keep just want to model it for him, you know, just like my grandpa did, and make it make it easy, make it like this is — anyone can do this. Take that next faithful step, that everyone has something that they can do to show just a little bit of genuine curiosity in whoever they're with, that we always have something to learn, and if you can model that with joy, I just think it can be captured so much easier. If you model it in any other way, I don't know that it becomes something that you want to emulate. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 36:45 I love that. And speaking of joy, I have a feeling I know where you might go with this answer, but let's see if you surprise us. You know, what is something you're doing every day to be better, either as a leader, you know, in your in your life? What are you doing every day to be better? Matthew Ayers 37:05 I'll say it's something that I try to do every day. So even this week is a great example. Like, the last couple weeks, I've had conversations with staff where they felt courageous enough to give me feedback, and I got to listen, and I get to learn from them, and they're my greatest teachers. “So, this is how I felt in that situation, Matthew, and this is how I didn't feel seen or heard.” And let me just tell you how that impacted me, and those conversations are, you know, although I wish I could say they're far and few between, they're probably more regular. But I'm grateful for that. I'm grateful that we have a team that really trusts each other, and where we can just be honest and reflect and call each other to this higher place. And my team does that for me. So if I could do one thing, I don't always do it, but if I could do one thing really well, it'd be to keep learning from them. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 38:03 Oh, that's fantastic. May I ask how you accept that feedback? Because, you know, being open to hearing it is one thing, but accepting it, I think, is another. Can you talk about how you do that? Matthew Ayers 38:18 Yeah. Well, I think people are complicated, and all of us, right? We're like this incredible mishmash. You have, like, unlimited layers of variables going on an x-axis and a y-axis, and for some reason, on one day, one person will hit that one button that really affects us more deeply than another. And I see that, you know, with me, I see that with our team. And so, even one staff member will give me feedback that's in this direction, and another and receives it completely differently. So, what I think it does for me is I want to hold all those things as equally valid and say how can I sharpen what I'm doing even more so? Like that thing really landed for somebody and it really hurt somebody else. So how can I adjust? How can I learn from that so that I am presenting, I'm showing up to work my best self in a way that's able to speak to everyone. You can't always do that. You're never going to hit on the head, and that's why we need grace for everyone. We need a little patience. But I think we can always learn too, and we can always sharpen the skills. And I'm so grateful that we can, and that EQ is just one of those things that we can constantly work on. So, yeah. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 39:36 I love that. Well, what is something that we didn't cover today that you feel is really important for our viewers and listeners to hear from you? Matthew Ayers 039:46 You keep doing what you're doing because you're bringing a message that is really — it's not complicated at all, but there's so many layers to this leadership journey, and I think people need examples of that. We don't learn — I think what I know that whether it was just in my work here at the Academy, or the work with the nonprofit, or just growing up in Ellensburg, Washington, learn as much in the classroom, and so we have to wrestle with these ideas. That's important, and these ideas we'll hear today are really important. But we need to the community we live in, the family we're a part of, our work, and we need to apply these things. And that's where we really learn. And I don't think leadership can ever be learned just from talking about it, right?   Col. Naviere Walkewicz 40:43 That's right.   Matthew Ayers 40:43 So we have to be able to apply these ideas constantly and wrestle with them, and talk about them, and keep them front and center. So thank you for doing that. And I know we're going to keep trying to do that within Dream Centers and make it real instead of just theoretical. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 41:00 Well, Matthew, this conversation has been really incredible in many ways. I think some of the things that really stuck with me in this conversation, one, I just really appreciated getting to know your grandpa through you. I mean, he's someone that I also hope that I can emulate in just his finding ordinary ways to make big impact. And I think you're doing that every day in your job, and that's helping to inspire others as well. I really appreciated our conversation how you really have become a student of learning leadership through the through the actions that others have gone through, right? So maybe not living them yourself, but being there in the moment, learning from them. And so I appreciated how you really talk about leadership through learning. And so I think that really came through and folds in our conversation today. And last, I want to end with this because, as I sit here and I smile at you, it's because you bring joy, and I think it's really important that we find joy in the moments, even when they're difficult. If we can continue to like hold onto that thread of joy, life is sure a lot more fun and meaningful, and we bring others along with us in that in that capacity. Matthew Ayers 42:04 Thank you, Naviere. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 42:05 For all of you that are watching this and listening, thank you for joining us on Long Blue Leadership. If you know someone who's on their leadership journey, they really should check out this conversation and all of our others at longblueleadership.org. Many of our graduates have different paths that they want on leadership, and just like Matthew, they have so many wonderful lessons you can pose in them. So until next time, I'm Naviere Walkowicz, Class of '99. We'll see you on Long Blue Leadership. KEYWORDS Primary: Servant leadership, leadership through learning, influence, humility, curiosity, transformation. Secondary: Mentorship, moral courage, resilience, trust, active listening, empathy, community, values-based leadership, feedback, purpose. Supporting: Emotional intelligence, authenticity, growth mindset, stewardship, compassion, vulnerability, presence, integrity, service, relational leadership. The Long Blue Line Podcast Network is presented by the U.S. Air Force Academy Association & Foundation    

Leadership isn't about changing who you are; it's about becoming the fullest expression of who you were meant to be.   SUMMARY What does quiet leadership look like? From military deployments to the flight deck at Alaska Airlines, Lt. Col. (Ret.) Kimberly Ford '90 explains how preparation, trust and listening can be just as powerful as command.    COL. FORD'S TOP 10 LEADERSHIP TAKEAWAYS 1. Leadership doesn't have to be loud to be effective. Ford's journey demonstrates that quiet, thoughtful leaders can inspire just as deeply as outspoken ones. Authenticity is what earns trust and influence. 2. Feedback can become the catalyst for transformation. Receiving a poor leadership evaluation at the U.S. Air Force Academy was painful, but instead of allowing it to define her, Ford used it as the beginning of her growth as a leader. 3. Finding your voice begins by believing your perspective matters. Confidence wasn't something Ford was born with. It was developed through mentors, experience and the courage to share her passion with others. 4. The best mentors don't remove fear, they help you move through it. From the jump master to her pilot instructors, Ford's mentors equipped her with the mindset and confidence to act despite uncertainty rather than waiting for fear to disappear. 5. Preparation creates confidence under pressure. Chair flying, visualization, repetition and mastering the fundamentals allowed Ford to perform when the stakes were highest. Excellence begins long before execution. 6. Trust is earned through competence and consistency. Whether flying combat missions or commercial aircraft, Ford explains that teams build trust quickly when they know each member is prepared, dependable and committed to doing their job well. 7. Leadership must adapt to the mission. Effective leaders recognize when decisive command is required and when empathy, patience and service are the qualities the moment demands. 8. Listening is one of leadership's greatest strengths. Ford's approach emphasizes seeking feedback, understanding different perspectives and creating an environment where others feel heard before decisions are made. 9. Resilience is built through daily disciplines, not extraordinary moments. Grounding practices, physical fitness, reflection, continual learning and intentional self-care help leaders remain ready for whatever challenges come next. 10. Great leaders remain lifelong students. Ford's advice to her younger self reflects her enduring philosophy: believe in yourself, seek mentors, embrace feedback, learn from mistakes and never stop growing.   CHAPTERS 00:00:13 – Meet Lt. Col. (Ret.) Kimberly Ford, USAFA Class of 1990 00:00:57 – The "Rate Your Neighbor" Moment that Changed Everything 00:05:33 – Finding Her Voice & Honoring the Tuskegee Airmen and WASPs 00:08:34 – Family, Faith and the Foundation of Leadership 00:11:00 – Jump School: Fear, Courage and Asking for Help 00:15:15 – Developing a Warrior Mindset Through Preparation 00:17:24 – Transitioning from Military Aviation to Alaska Airlines 00:20:06 – Leading Under Pressure in Combat Operations 00:23:38 – Adapting Your Leadership to Fit the Mission 00:27:28 – Daily Habits That Make Better Leaders 00:29:43 – Advice to Her Younger Self & the Power of Mentorship 00:31:26 – Final Reflections: Leading with Quiet Confidence     ABOUT COL. FORD BIO Lt. Col. (Ret.) Kimberly Ford, USAFA Class of 1990, is a distinguished combat aviator, senior mobility leader and lifelong advocate for aviation, leadership, and service. During her 25-year U.S. Air Force career, she served as a KC-135 and C-17 command pilot, instructor pilot and mission commander, logging more than 11,000 flight hours while supporting combat, humanitarian and contingency operations around the world. She also served in strategic leadership roles at Air Mobility Command, helping shape enterprise-level operations and leadership development across the Air Force's global mobility mission. Following her military service, Col. Ford has continued to lead through aviation and community engagement as a commercial airline pilot, board leader and champion for preserving the legacy of the Tuskegee Airmen and Women Airforce Service Pilots while expanding opportunities in aerospace and STEM education. A recipient of numerous military and civilian honors, including induction into the Organization of Black Aerospace Professionals Hall of Fame, she remains dedicated to mentoring the next generation of leaders through a life defined by service, resilience and authentic leadership. CONNECT WITH KIM LINKEDIN CONNECT WITH THE LONG BLUE LINE PODCAST NETWORK TEAM Ted Robertson | Producer and Editor:  Ted.Robertson@USAFA.org Send your feedback or nominate a guest: socialmedia@usafa.org Please note: we are only considering USAFA graduates as guests at this time. Ryan Hall | Director:  Ryan.Hall@USAFA.org  Bryan Grossman | Copy Editor:  Bryan.Grossman@USAFA.org Wyatt Hornsby | Executive Producer:  Wyatt.Hornsby@USAFA.org     ALL PAST LBL EPISODES  |  ALL LBLPN PRODUCTIONS AVAILABLE AT USAFA.ORG/LONGBLUELEADERSHIP AND ON ALL MAJOR PODCAST PLATFORMS     FULL TRANSCRIPT Guest, Matthew Ayers '99  |  Host, Lt. Col. (Ret.) Naviere Walkewicz '99    Lt. Col. (Ret.) Naviere Walkewicz 0:00 Sometimes leadership isn't about speaking the loudest; it's about finding the courage to speak when your voice matters most. I'm Naviere Walkewicz, Class of '99; Long Blue Leadership starts now. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 0:13 Today's guest is Air Force Lt. Col. (Ret.) Kimberly Ford, United States Air Force Academy, Class of 1990. She has had a remarkable career through KC-135, C-17 command pilot, instructor pilot, senior air mobility command leader. Today she serves as an Alaska Airlines pilot, aviation advocate, and champion — preserving the legacy of our Tuskegee Airmen and Women Airforce Service Pilots, WASP, while inspiring the next generation of aerospace leaders. I should also add that Kim is our 2025 — one of our 2025 recipients — of the Leadership Achievement Award. Kim, we're so glad to have you here. Lt. Col. (Ret.) Kimberly Ford 0:53 Thank you so much. It's just an honor to be here to speak with you today. Thank you. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 0:57 Absolutely. And so, here on Long Blue Leadership, we like to jump right on to a really key moment in your life, and one, if we dial back the time a little bit, goes back to your three-degree year at the Air Force Academy, and they had something at the time, I think you mentioned it was “Rate Your Neighbor,” so something that you all did, and you scored a D. And I'm curious on what that was about, and then can you take us back to that conversation that time. Col. Kimberly Ford 1:23 Correct, they had something at the time called Rate Your Neighbor, and that called for your classmates, your peers, people above you and below you, rating your ability to be a leader in the Cadet Wing and in your squadron, and then eventually a leader in the Air Force, and so everyone in your class would get a rating. I had come into the to the meeting thinking that I had done really well, and that my passion was shining through, and so imagine my surprise when I found out that I received the equivalent of a D grade. My air officer commanding was empathetic, but he was also very concerned, and what I did appreciate was he did give me the chance to respond. At that time, I just felt really disappointed. You know, I'd come into the Academy, I really wanted to be in aerospace, I was really excited about STEM. I was so happy to have the opportunity to be there, and so I must admit that I really felt crushed when I heard his words, that I hadn't done as well as I thought I had. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 2:32 It almost sounds a little bit like a 360-degree kind of assessment. What, in particular, I guess attributed to that, kind of that score, that rating from your peers? What did they see, I guess, in that to give you that score? Col. Kimberly Ford 2:49 Yes, you know, looking back with my lens now, I know that there are different types of leadership, different styles of leadership, but I think at the time the type of leadership that was expected was someone who was assertive, who was upfront, who was more sort of direct. At the time, I was a young cadet who definitely needed to be mentored and learn some skills. I think what they saw in me was someone who was very quiet. I had not had the opportunity or taken the opportunity to speak about who I was, my background, my passion for aviation, someone who didn't make eye contact, and you know, someone who maybe didn't greet them on a personal level, who didn't check in before a session, during a session and maybe after a session. And so they just really weren't sure about my aptitude, and I can understand that big picture. I was someone who definitely needed to be mentored and definitely needed to learn those skills in a style that was commensurate with my personality and what I had to bring to the table. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 3:55 Well, you talked about being passionate and you went in feeling really good and hoping that it shined through. How did you adjust, maybe, or adapt after that feedback to bring your voice and that passion forward. What did that look like in your leadership journey at that time? Col. Kimberly Ford 4:10 Yes, I remember the air officer commanding said, “Hey, you know, let's talk about this. What do you — what are you bringing to the table?” And so I said, “Wow, I'm someone who wants to be here. I'm someone who wants to fly. I am someone who wants to give back to my country, and I want to serve my nation.” And so, after that, I'm lucky that I had a good group of mentors, both peers and older cadets, and I was able to sit down with them and get that constructive feedback and constructive criticism. So I was able to speak with my flight commander about, you know, goals that I have. I want to do, you know, eventually I want to do the soaring program. I want to do — which I may have already finished by that point. I want to do the T-41 program, which was the solo program at the time. I would like to be a pilot. And so I really practiced making eye contact, speaking about my goals, sharing my passion, and just really checking in and making sure I receive that feedback from my leadership, and then also points where I could improve. You know, as an 18-, 19-year-old, you know, young woman who was very shy, that was a lot for me. But it just — so it took a lot of courage, so I'm really proud of myself for being able to get there, to be able to interact and have those conversations that I needed to have with my cadet leadership at the time. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 5:33 Well, let's fast forward now, because I feel like that voice that you found has been really instrumental in some of the advocacy and work that you've done around really highlighting the legacies of our Tuskegee Airmen and the Women Air Service Pilots, or WASPs. Can you talk about, you know, where that came into play, or how finding your voice, what that looked like, and what some of that work, important work, was that you did? Col. Kimberly Ford 5:59 Yeah, yeah, I will go back. When I was a young woman, still in high school, I had really started to show interest in aviation, and we didn't know a lot of people who were pilots or in aerospace, and so what my parents did for me, especially my mother, who loved to read, is she found me a lot of books, and she found me books about the Tuskegee Airmen and about the Women's Air Service Pilots as examples. And so I read about these courageous, you know, young people who were serving during World War II, all of the challenges and barriers that they had to overcome, and the life lessons that they had to share. And so I really took that to heart, and that really helped to inspire me during my career. I had the opportunity to speak with some Tuskegee Airmen during my Air Force career by attending conferences. As I moved back to the Seattle area, when I came back to Joint Base Lewis-McChord, I had the opportunity to serve at the Seattle Museum of Flight and serve in panels. We would talk about subjects such as the Berlin Airlift, some of the flying out of a Ramitelli in Italy, and just sort of passing along those leadership lessons. I had also joined my Sam Bruce Chapter of Tuskegee Airmen. We were able to work on some youth programs and grow them from very small programs to larger programs, which really passed along those important leadership lessons to young people and inspired them on their journeys to becoming pilots. I had another opportunity to volunteer with the Congressional Gold Medal ceremony for the Women's Air Service Pilots. So, I went to Washington, D.C. I was able to pass along the Congressional Gold Medal to June Lecky and spend time with her family and learn about her service, so I always called her my WASP. I'm lucky that I was able to go to the museum, the Women's Air Service Pilot Museum in Sweetwater, Texas, and have the chance to interview WASPs, volunteer alongside of WASPs, and as well pass along my message of my service and sort of help to grow young people. Through my Sam Bruce Chapter, I met mentors such as Bill Holloman, who was an original Tuskegee Airmen, and Ed Drummond, who shared their stories of just leadership and courage. So to me, those lessons are so important to pass on to the next generation. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 8:34 I think you hit it on the, you know, hit the nail on the head when you talk about sharing the stories, and as we share your story today, I think it's really important that our viewers and our listeners kind of really appreciate that not all leaders, you know, approach things in the same way. To your point, you know, you start off really shy, and you found your voice, and then you're able to even share stories of other leaders. I'm curious, in your journey, of, you know, how that continued to evolve, you know, where did you find yourself really championed, perhaps? You mentioned your parents early on, and you know, understanding your love for aviation, did they also kind of show up for you in that way of helping you to hone in on your leadership skills a little earlier? Col. Kimberly Ford 9:20 Yes, yes. As a young person, I knew early on that I wanted to go to college, that I wanted to achieve a graduate degree, and seeing those examples of my father serve overseas, and my mother alongside with him… Col. Naviere Walkewicz 9:37 Both your parents served? Col. Kimberly Ford 9:38 Actually, my father was in the Army, he got up to the rank of captain, and my mother, they had just gotten married, and my mother joined him in France, where they served outside of Paris at a place called Saran, France. So I just saw that example. They started taking me to museums, as I mentioned, they had me read books, but they did see that I was more shy and more quiet, and so they started really relating to me, they just passed along that I, that I'm a leader, you know, I am a leader in my own way. These were often quiet messages, they weren't often direct, but I just remember when I showed up at the Academy, they just, I remember that that message, that I am a leader, that I am capable, that I can do these jobs, that I had just as much of an opportunity to succeed, they were really just strongly, strongly instilled in me. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 10:37 I love those affirmations, and I'm curious, you know, obviously you went on to go to pilot training. How did that continue to evolve, and being a quiet leader, show up in, you know, in the cockpit or amongst your peers? Were there times where you had to be more assertive, or use a different voice? How did you kind of deal with how you're wired, so to speak, with what was needed for the moment? Col. Kimberly Ford 11:00 Yeah, so one story that I'll take you back to goes back to jump school. One of my friends wanted me to take jump school, I was really uncertain about this, and she's like, "No, we let's take jump school together.” We were both seniors, and it was just a great opportunity. We went through the training. I had always thought of the people that did jump school as just these amazing people. I wasn't sure if I could just reach that pinnacle. I'm so lucky that we made it. We both made it to the through the training, and then you get to the point where you, you're standing in the door, so this is the point where you take all of your training and you are going to execute this training, and you're going to face this really critical, intense moment. And so to me it was sort of like a parallel of I was finding my voice, I'm a cadet, and then I have the chance to go to pilot training. I remember before we stood in the door on the ground, I'd spoken to the jump master, which was really intimidating for me as a young cadet, and I said, "I want to jump out the door. Can you help me get there? Can you sort of show me how you get yourself ready to do that?” And so, looking back now, when I got into the door, he basically looked me in the eye, and he helped me to take a deep breath, to settle myself, and to take that big step forward. And I jumped out the door, and I went on to do five jumps, and I completed that program. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 12:21 I have to give you props, because I think the fact that you recognized in yourself, giving yourself the permission to ask for help, right? You said, "Can you help me get to and through the door and accomplish this jump?” And then go on to get your jump wings. I think it's really powerful and a leadership lesson in itself. Was that something that you just you — it happened, or you've seen it modeled before you, or you just, it was just something in you that, “I'm going to ask for help here?” Col. Kimberly Ford 12:52 He certainly helped me to get that warrior mindset. So, I believe even back before, you know, maybe wanting to do a certain program at in high school, or even wanting to apply for the Academy, my father said, “You know, you just have to step forward and do it.” Also, dating back to my father's father, who was one of the first Black policemen in Baltimore City. He was a very, he was also a very reserved man, very much like myself. And I remember speaking to him about being nervous about applying to the Academy and going to the Academy, and he said, “You know what, Kim? You've just got to get started, you've just got to take that first step.” So, basically, putting yourself in that space, that mental space, being prepared, being confident, and believing in yourself, and taking that step forward. I was able to carry that through, going to pilot training. I was really nervous. A lot of cadets had the opportunity to do a lot of flying, a lot of discovery flights or programs like Civil Air Patrol or scouting, and my parents were only able, they were able to provide me with one amazing discovery flight, but it was tough. I had to learn a lot of information in a short period of time. I had an amazing UPT instructor for my first flight. His name is Colonel, retired now, Kevin Mastin, and he actually went on to become a Thunderbird. He went to the University of Washington, where I'm from, so a neat link there. And I just told him about my fears. “I'm nervous. I don't know if I have what it takes. I don't know if I can keep up with the other students.” And he was — he said, "Do you really want to do this and finish this program?” And I said, “I really do,” and he said, “Well, let's work together, basically to develop this warrior mindset, or this mindset of focus, of intensity, of bringing your best, of being excellent like the Tuskegee Airmen.” So he really worked with me and helped me to do that. So I was basically able to bring that to serving throughout my career up to serving in Iraqi Freedom, Enduring Freedom. You know, just really taking that deep breath, knowing that I am capable, knowing that I am a good leader, and sort of executing the mission, working with the crew, or working with the team that I'm working with at the time. So I'm really proud that that started, as you know, as a child with my parents was honed also at the Air Force Academy and with other mentors through my career. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 15:15 Were there particular pillars of leadership or things that he said this is how, you know, your process to thinking like a warrior having that warrior mindset. What did that look like? Col. Kimberly Ford 15:25 Yes, yes, he always he focused on telling me to sort of don't listen to the noise and the other inputs. You know, fly the airplane and focus on the important tenets, the important things that you need to do. You know, “You need to fly the airplane into the air, you need to make it act in ways that you want it to act.” He spoke with me about, you know, learning all of the information, such as, you know, chair flying or visualizing. He said, "I want you to know that information cold. So, if you know the information cold and you're nervous, you're it'll allow you to fly the airplane and focus. So, we would actually have study sessions where we would go to the squadron, and we would basically go through our steps and procedures, and just really practice focusing and just eliminating all of that noise, flying the aircraft, and putting the airplane, you know, in acrobatics and VFR flight and IFR flight. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 16:20 And for someone who's not in aviation, what does VFR flight and IFR flight mean? Col. Kimberly Ford 16:23 Visual flight rules, where you can see, and instrument flight rules, where there are clouds, and you're not to see the ground. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 16:31 Well, I can imagine that's really helpful, going through the repetition of actually being in the cockpit, you know, not in the cockpit, right? Like you said, chair flying. I think that's really powerful, visualizing. Were there any other kind of key instructions or thoughts in that process of putting on the warrior mindset and being able to push through any of the self-doubt or kind of the reservations that not just you but I think other leaders share? Col. Kimberly Ford 16:57 I think it's also, you know, being the consummate professional, you know, always learning about your craft, so I'm always learning something new, I'm always reading, always listening to what others might say, always listening to feedback. And always showing up, you know, being early, looking professional, having your uniform look well — just sort of those are some of the other tenants that he taught me, also. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 17:24 And I think about what you're doing now. So you're a current pilot with Alaska Airlines. Oftentimes, you know, many of our graduates do go into, especially those who served as pilots, go into, I think, you know, commercial aviation. You know, was that an easy process for you? How did that challenge you as a leader? Was that something that was already kind of written in your game plan of life? Col. Kimberly Ford 17:47 Right, so I actually became a commercial pilot in 2001, so it was right around the time of 9/11. It was a little bit challenging, just because I had just finished my active duty, where I was flying the KC-135. I did the Kosovo operations, and also Northern and Southern Watch, where you're basically flying around Saudi Arabia. I finished that and I was just starting my time as an Air Force reservist as a C-17 pilot. So I did initial training for the MD-80 at the time, which was an older passenger airline for Alaska Airlines, and I was also starting training for the C-17. There is quite a difference in culture — you're learning with, you know, working with a different crew, slightly different style of crew resource management. Your purpose is, you know, a little bit different. You're flying passengers and some cargo to get to where they need to go. So I'm really lucky that I was able to rely on mentors to step me through, do that visualizing and share flying. Soon after that, I was actually called up to serve full time for the Air Force for about three to five years for Operations Enduring and Iraqi Freedom, that's operations in Afghanistan and Iraq. So I always had to, you know, I took copious notes. We had a lot of conversations on those flight decks as we were doing our military operations. There were a lot of Alaska Airlines and other airline pilots, and so I'm so lucky that I could fly with some really experienced crew members who could really talk to me about this civilian procedures. It is fast paced — you're working at large civilian airports, so I had to learn those standardized procedures, and I had to learn to work with the crews to be able to execute that civilian mission well. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 19:41 I'm curious about, you know, your service while you were deployed in support of those different operations. If you could talk about where you saw yourself evolve as a leader. How did you continue to grow in that space from, you know, where you started as a quiet, more reserved leader, still quite passionate, but where did that show up, and how did it show up in the deployed spaces? Col. Kimberly Ford 20:06 Right, let's see, in the deployed spaces, just to give people an idea of the operations at the time, they were a very fast-paced. This is like around 2001, 2002 and on. We had to fly a large part of the mission because a lot of the experience was in the Air Force Reserve. I was serving at a joint-based Lewis-McChord, and so we would take large contingents of especially Army personnel from Joint Base Lewis-McChord, usually to the East Coast, maybe to Europe, such as Germany, and then overseas. It might have been the opportunity for me to sort of have a briefing, and then in general the mission would match the briefing, usually, usually in the KC-135. I would say in the C-17 it was very intense, where you were on alert, and then the mission could change and evolve. It might be incredibly intense where it was at night, — you might be landing with night vision goggles on a runway that wasn't lit, and so they were very intricate details. So changing mission, very intense missions. In the last part was very long missions. So I believe that I had to really dig deep and always be willing to have that resilience and more resilience and more endurance than I'd ever, ever had before. Also, working with a larger crew for a longer period of time. Just really — I knew that the people around me knew their jobs well, they were motivated, they wanted to serve, and they could execute well, and they were passionate about the mission, so I think just having that stamina and endurance, and flying in more challenging conditions. Definitely. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 21:57 When you're stepping into some of those roles, there's this need to build a team very quickly, and trust, and you know, obviously leadership is part of pulling all that together. How did you do that successfully? I mean, aside from, you know, having stamina and really just, I think, being ready, were there any other things that you thought you really tapped into from your strengths that helped you to navigate that cohesion and that trust together pretty quickly? Col. Kimberly Ford 22:24 Right, it seems like one of the easiest ways to build trust and have that team as — there are really standardized roles that are expected in the crew, and when the crew knows that you know your role inside and out, and that you can execute well, that you will, you know, speak the way you need to speak, that you'll fly the way you need to fly, that really quickly helps to build trust. I think, also, it helps to be able to speak through the mission to be able to talk about some of those key crunch points, and you know, options that we would have as a crew, and basically work together to make decisions, and also if that one person had information that the rest of the crew didn't have, such as the need to go around or to stop or to turn the other way, that the entire crew, especially the other pilot, would listen to that information and execute immediately. So, building that trust by performing your role, being prepared, going over the mission, going over those crunch points and acting quickly when you needed to act, that really seemed to form a cohesive crew. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 23:38 You know, if we can go back a little bit, I'm curious to your time, you know — I guess it's not really going back, it's a bit more current now — but you'd mentioned a little bit ago that working with Alaska Airlines, the pace is a little different, and the mission has changed. I'm curious on how your leadership has evolved when you think about a changing mission, and maybe it's not life or death or national security, but how do you continue to evolve as a leader when the stakes aren't as high? Col. Kimberly Ford 24:06 Right, right, so in the military mission, it was more — it was usually time critical, and it called for often a very assertive type of quiet leadership. So you're still bringing that assertive type of quiet leadership, but you're also bringing customer service to families and passengers who are getting to where they need to go, whether it be a vacation or to visit family, or, you know, taking a businessperson where they want me to go, so you're having that patience, letting people know that they're welcome, that you're happy to see them on board, you're working with crew members who may not have that sort of military background. And so there are different communication styles, different, you know, they're different people, and so you're really sort of reading who they are and making sure that you can communicate information in a way that is effective for them as a person, and their age and experience level. You are — it is also a compressed timeframe, so ensuring that you're getting loaded and boarded within that timeframe, and sort of helping the airline to get those, you know, different pushes of different aircraft at different times off on time. So I think I had to just sort of maybe dial it back a little bit in my presentation; make sure I just gave that great customer service. I would say in the cockpit it is that same — in the flight deck, I'm sorry — you're giving that same crew resource management. That same — building that same trust within the person who, you know, letting them know that you know your job and that you're ready to execute. So I would say it's probably more the same within the flight deck there. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 25:53 I would almost go so far as to say is the ability to understand when you need to assert more, and when maybe a more quiet and customer service-oriented leadership style needs to be used — you almost have a superpower of understanding when to employ them, and I might, I might ask you this: You know, how do you help others who maybe have the other side of the leadership spectrum, where they come in very — “I'm a very assertive type leader.” How do you help them see the value in your approach that is natural to you? Col. Kimberly Ford 26:25 We have a moment at the end of our flights at Alaska Airlines, where we sort of, we sit back and we basically say, “How do we think that went?” You know, “What could we change?” And we speak about, you know, “How did the crew receive our message? How did the passengers receive our message? How did the gate personnel receive our message?” And sometimes you could say, like, “OK, well, maybe we could have said this this way. Maybe we could have responded this way as we were flying the approach.” And so I'm able to sort of give my perspective, and maybe how I might have done things, or perhaps sometimes the will divide duties, and the captain will say, "OK, I see here, maybe you would be great at doing this duty, could you take this over?” And so I think that's how I can show that maybe a different style of leadership would be more effective in those certain situations, and we're trained to really listen and just take in the feedback that's coming towards us, and I would say all of the crew members are very good at listening, adjusting and taking in what's offered to them. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 27:28 By you kind of sharing the ability to listen, but also share your perspectives, I think, in itself, is another great leadership lesson that strong leaders have the ability to listen to others and take in other inputs before making decisions or moving forward. So I think that was a wonderful recollection of how you do that in the civilian world in aviation. So one of the things we love to do is ask our guests: What they're doing every day to be a better leader? Would you mind sharing with us what that is? Col. Kimberly Ford 27:59 Let's see, I do a number of things. One is I try to take a quiet moment just to do some breathing and just really to center myself and ground myself, so a quiet moment. I'm trying to get enough sleep. It's amazing how much, you know, good sleep can affect your ability to execute your day properly. I'm trying to get some exercise every day, so whether it be — I'm trying to do a lot of weightlifting, Pilates, yoga, doing things to strengthen myself as well as ground myself. And I'm also making sure I'm taking a break to do something fun, you know, something that I enjoy with my spouse or a friend, going out to lunch or something like that. So, you know, trying to take care of myself and make sure I take some time for fun and just set time for grounding and for breathing a few minutes each day. I find those things very helpful. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 28:57 Is that something that you sort of employed as, you know, you've become more understanding of time and experience, or have you always kind of operated in that way — just to kind of appreciate the moments, you know, take time to fill your cup, etc.? Col. Kimberly Ford 29:12 You know, I would say that that is something that my parents instilled in me a long time ago. My mother instilled in me, especially just that: that breathing and just taking that moment and just grounding yourself. I remember we went to some sort of exercise classes together when I was in junior high and high school, so I'm really proud that she instilled that in me early. My father also exercised with me as I was getting ready for my Academy initial fitness test to get in. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 29:43 Well, frankly, I mean they really did help prepare you so well for being a cadet and then going on to be highly successful, both as an officer and then in the civilian world. But speaking of when you're a cadet, if you could go back in time now, Kim, and tell, you know Cadet Kimberly Ford, you know, something that she should be thinking about to be a better leader down the road, what would you tell her? Col. Kimberly Ford 30:06 I would say always believe in yourself. Know that you can do this, that you are capable, and you have an important perspective to bring to the table. Your voice is necessary, and you have something to bring. So, I would just say it's coming. Keep believing yourself, and I would also say to her, you know, keep finding different mentors, you know. Some mentors are sort of focused on the operation that you're doing on a narrow scale, and some are more big picture mentors, so rely on those mentors and peers, and continue taking that feedback, and always growing, remain a student, always improving, making corrections, and it's OK to have those missteps. And it's an amazing journey as you keep learning and growing and becoming a better leader. That I would tell Cadet Kim. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 30:59 That is outstanding. And may I ask you, what are you most proud of about yourself as a leader? Col. Kimberly Ford 31:06 I am proud of resilience, but I learned how to be resilient leader, you know, that I learned from my parents, relatives and, most importantly, through those programs and leadership at the Academy instilled in me that I'm a resilient leader, that I have a lot to offer. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 31:26 Awesome, this has been amazing. I mean, we always enjoy being able to take a peek behind the story of our Air Force Academy graduates and our leadership journeys, but I really appreciate the time, and you really pulling back the layers, taking it back to your family, taking it back to some of the, you know, just right away the lessons you learned from peer feedback and how to adapt and evolve and be resilient, and then when the moment calls for it, bring your voice back to those important moments when you need to help others see a different perspective. It's been an absolute pleasure having you on Long Blue Leadership today. Col. Kimberly Ford 31:59 Thank you so much. And I just have to say, Mighty '90 for the class, as well as War Eagles for the CS-15 War Eagles. But thank you so much. It's been just an honor to be here with you, and I have really very much enjoyed this. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 32:13 Thank you. And for all of you watching this or listening, be sure to share this journey with others who are also in their leadership journeys, whether in aviation or not. Right? Just looking for what are those ways that our leaders are taking shape. We do this on this particular Long Blue Leadership episode, and all of our others at longblueleadership.org. What really stuck with me about this particular conversation is to really be a leader for what the moment calls for, and I think that Lt. Col. (Ret.) Kim Ford, Class of '90, Mighty '90, as she said, did it really well. So until next time, I'm Naviere Walkewicz, Class of '99 and we'll see you on Long Blue Leadership, KEYWORDS Quiet leadership, authentic leadership, finding your voice, leadership development, leadership philosophy, resilient leadership, leadership resilience, mentorship, servant leadership, emotional intelligence, courageous leadership, confidence, self-belief, constructive feedback, growth mindset, warrior mindset, leadership under pressure, trust, team building, crew resource management, aviation leadership, military leadership, Air Force Academy, USAFA, combat leadership, decision-making, adaptability, resilience, visualization, chair flying, lifelong learning, personal growth, women in leadership, women in aviation, Tuskegee Airmen, Women Airforce Service Pilots, WASP, professional excellence, leadership communication, leadership lessons.   The Long Blue Line Podcast Network is presented by the U.S. Air Force Academy Association & Foundation        

Since its arrival to the area in the late 1950s, the U.S. Air Force Academy has shaped the Colorado Springs community. Mike Peterson and Lisa Neener both flew for the Air Force for over 20 years and have a long history with the institution – and now, they're fired up about its future. With the opening of the new Hosmer Visitor Center right outside the North Gate, visitors can learn about USAFA's history and get a full understanding of the 47-month journey of a cadet through immersive exhibits. Learn about this new state welcome center and all of the ways to engage with the Academy as you visit the region. 

What builds trust when you don't have a title or position of authority? SUMMARY According to Lt. Col. Joe Bledsoe '11, it's honesty, integrity, humility presence and action. Tune in as he shares practical leadership lessons learned from the Academy, combat aviation and years of mentoring others.   SHARE THIS EPISODE FACEBOOK  |  LINKEDIN   COL. BLEDSOE'S TOP 10 LEADERSHIP TAKEAWAYS 1. Leadership starts before the title. People follow your example, ideas, and presence long before you get formal authority. 2. Informal leadership is as real as formal leadership. Class president, wingman, or peer—your influence, credibility, and support role matter even without rank. 3. Be “clay to be molded.” Show eagerness, humility, and effort; people notice fresh attitude and willingness to embrace hard things. 4. You can't lead alone—build a trusted team. Time management and heavy responsibility force you to delegate to people you trust and empower them. 5. Trust has two layers: inherent and earned. Start with inherent trust (shared values, shared background) and deliberately grow earned trust through behavior. 6. Five traits that build credibility fast: Honesty, integrity, humility, presence (actually being there, engaged), and decisive action. 7. Debrief like a fighter pilot: brutally honest, never personal. Separate the person from the performance, do root‑cause analysis, fix errors, and then move on—no re‑litigating. 8. Own your mistakes out loud. Saying “I'm sorry,” “I was wrong,” or “I don't know, but I'll find out” accelerates trust and models humility. 9. Mentors and mentees are non‑negotiable. Continuously seek guidance from those ahead of you and invest in those behind you to sharpen your own thinking. 10. Prioritize relationships and pride in the mission. Treat family and friends well, cultivate the Long Blue Line, and remember you're on the A‑team—act like it.   CHAPTERS 00:00:00 — Opening & Guest Intro Show open, Naviere introduces Lt Col Joe “Paveway” Bledsoe and his career highlights. 00:01:13 — Voluntold to Lead: Becoming Class President Basic cadet training, being “voluntold,” interview gauntlet, and getting elected class president. 00:04:09 — What a Class President Actually Does Informal vs formal leadership, picking the class exemplar (Robin Olds), dining‑ins, spirit missions, and accountability. 00:08:38 — From Future Doctor to Fighter Pilot Arriving at USAFA wanting to be a physician, loving biology and medicine, and the first seeds of doubt. 00:10:03 — Ops Air Force, Powered Flight, and the Pivot Deployed Ops Air Force in CENTCOM, exposure to flying in theater, powered flight, and choosing pilot training over med school. 00:12:22 — Mentors, Family, and Making a Hard Call Mentorship from family, upperclassmen, and permanent party; emotional weight of changing paths and family's reaction. 00:14:08 — Leading Without Rank: Credibility and Trust Informal leadership as a young wingman, lessons from time management and delegation as class president, inherent vs earned trust, and key traits (honesty, integrity, humility, presence, action). 00:22:06 — Fighter Pilot Debriefs & Radical Feedback Culture Brutally honest debriefs, owning mistakes, root‑cause analysis, safety and mission focus, and how that mindset translates beyond the cockpit. 00:27:48 — Leadership at Home: Marriage, Parenting, and ‘Knock It Off' High‑school‑sweetheart marriage, parenting, using accountability and humility with kids, and balancing “fighter pilot” mode with being a husband and dad. 00:30:30 — Future Conflict, Growth, and Pride in the Long Blue Line Risk and future fight, Institute for Future Conflict, exposure to other AFSCs and logistics, daily growth habits (mentors, mentees, reading, writing, running), advice to younger self, and closing message on being proud of USAFA and the A‑team.   ABOUT COL. BLEDSOE BIO Lt. Col. Joseph “Paveway” Bledsoe '11 is a U.S. Air Force Academy graduate and recognized leader whose career has spanned combat operations, advanced airpower development and service to the Long Blue Line. A native of rural Pennsylvania, Bledsoe graduated from the Academy in 2011 with a degree in biology before earning a Master of Public Policy from the University of Maryland.  He is Currently assigned to the Institute for Future Conflict at the U.S. Air Force Academy where he studies the future of airpower, emerging technologies and the challenges of great-power competition. Prior to joining the Institute, he helped lead training and operational planning efforts at the 366th Fighter Wing, contributing to major exercises and the wing's first deployment to the Indo-Pacific region. His work bridges the gap between today's operational realities and tomorrow's strategic challenges. A recipient of the Association & Foundation's Young Alumni Excellence Award, Bledsoe is widely respected for his emphasis on faith, family and service. Throughout his career, he has remained deeply connected to the Academy community through mentorship, alumni leadership and a commitment to developing the next generation of leaders. On this episode of Long Blue Leadership, he shares lessons learned from leading peers, building influence before authority and navigating high-stakes decisions in both the cockpit and the profession of arms.   CONNECT WITH JOE LINKEDIN   CONNECT WITH THE LONG BLUE LINE PODCAST NETWORK TEAM Ted Robertson | Producer and Editor:  Ted.Robertson@USAFA.org Send your feedback or nominate a guest: socialmedia@usafa.org Please note: we are only considering USAFA graduates as guests at this time. Ryan Hall | Director:  Ryan.Hall@USAFA.org  Bryan Grossman | Copy Editor:  Bryan.Grossman@USAFA.org Wyatt Hornsby | Executive Producer:  Wyatt.Hornsby@USAFA.org     ALL PAST LBL EPISODES  |  ALL LBLPN PRODUCTIONS AVAILABLE AT USAFA.ORG/LONGBLUELEADERSHIP AND ON ALL MAJOR PODCAST PLATFORMS     FULL TRANSCRIPT Guest, Lt. Col. (Ret.) Joe "Paveway" Bledsoe" '11  |  Host, Lt. Col. (Ret.) Naviere Walkewicz '99    Lt. Col. (Ret.) Naviere Walkewicz 0:01 Sometimes leadership begins long before you've ever been put in charge. It starts when people trust you enough to follow your example, your ideas or your vision. I'm Naviere Walkewicz, Class of '99; Long Blue Leadership starts now. Well, Lt. Col. Joe “Paveway” Bledsoe the Third. Welcome to Long Blue Leadership. Lt. Col. Joe Bledsoe 0:20 Naviere, it's great to see you. Thank you for having me here today. I'm looking forward to the conversation. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 0:24 So, Joe, your career has been exciting so far, and you're still in it. You know, you have been operational leader, obviously an F-15E Strike Eagle pilot. You've been deployed, you have been a researcher, you're a Young Alumni Excellence Award winner for our Association & Foundation, you've been an AOG board director and a fellow for the Institute for Future Conflict. And that, that's just, you know, a short little list, because you're a student heading back into, over to, is it North Carolina, right? Seymour Johnson.   Col. Joe Bledsoe 0:53 That's correct. Seymour Johnson, yep.   Col. Naviere Walkewicz 0:54 In the cockpit, yeah. Col. Joe Bledsoe 0:56 Yeah, we're super excited. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 0:59 Yes. Well, we're going to touch on probably many of those places, but I want to dial it back to something that only one graduate in every class experiences, and for you it happened shortly after Basic Cadet Training. Your class selected you as your class president. How did that come about? Col. Joe Bledsoe 1:14 How did that all go down? That's a great question. So there we were, right after basic training. I was in Cadet Squadron 19 for my freshman year, and I got the opportunity — this is one of those voluntold moments, right — where the upperclassmen and BCT cadre said, “Joe,” or “Cadet Bledsoe, report to H-1 during transition week.” That's when everybody's coming back, and you're like, “Sure, yep, yes, sir, yes, ma'am. Here we go.” So I show up with 40, 50 other fourth-class cadets, and we come to find out it was for us, and we were going to go through who was going to be the class officers. So first off, as I look back on that experience, a lot of respect and no humility being asked to go like represent Squadron 19, right? Like, I didn't volunteer, they just kind of pointed me in that direction, so we show up and got to interview with the upperclassmen, class officers, and there's funny interview questions, real serious interview questions. You know, I was just honest, right? Like, I'm here. This is what I think about what being a leader looks like, and how I could help serve the class, not thinking I would ever be selected, right? And as the night is going on, and ACQ is right around the corner, they kind of whittle it down to four or five of us, and we get up in front of the rest of the cadets and classmates that were there, and it was an open forum, like you know, back in Rome times, like you're standing in the gauntlet, Yeah, like it was like Roman voting, right? And asked a bunch of questions, and I remember standing up there with, you know, preppies, prior enlisted, and then me, just like straight off the street, and there's a couple other of us up there, and just answer the questions honestly, and at the end of that, there was a vote, and you know, they read the results, and I was like, "Holy smokes, I'm class president. How did this, how did this happen,” right? And I think there's a lot that — it was daunting at first, right? And then also, like, “This is awesome, I don't know what I'm getting into,” right? I just found out about it. I remember walking back on the Tizo. This was the first time I can say this now, because you know, grad, and I didn't run the strips because the upperclassmen and class officers walked me back, and I distinctly remember to — back to my squadron to — Jordan Kraft and Forrest Underwood walked back and were given some mentorship to me, like here's how to succeed, here's things we would recommend, and it was just an awesome opportunity to like kind of learn what pure leadership looks like, what it means to be in this not org chart that is unique to the Academy, and that's where the, that's where the adventure started for class president. I'm still, I haven't been fired yet, and I still proudly serve the Class of 2011 — Robin Olds' class — as their class president, and it's one of the best jobs that I have the privilege of doing. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 4:10 My goodness. I mean, just to unpack that a little bit, obviously, in basic cadet training, you did enough to impress your cadre, I'm sure that there was probably some sort of cadre selection to bring however many of them forth first. Would you say that you would you agree with that, or is that — am I way off? Col. Joe Bledsoe 4:28 Yeah, I would say —I think when I look back my time at basic training, like I wanted to come to the Academy since I was in your school, right? So, like, I thrived — I'm not saying it was easy by any means, right? We all know that, but I thrived in like this new adventure, right? And I took everything, I embraced everything. I think that may have been something they saw, right? Like I was clay to be molded, right? And I had some prior opportunities in basic to show that to my BCT cadre, and they picked up on it. It wasn't that I was trying, but I think looking back on that experience, there was moments of like my freshness, my eagerness, my like pride in that I made it to basic training, that I wanted to just try as hard as I could, and I think some of that probably shown through, and ultimately may have been why I was selected to go try that interview process, right? Col. Naviere Walkewicz 5:20 So that interview process, at the end of the day, you were elected by your peers, and you know it — to your point — you said in that unusual, the not normal org chart, right, the one that doesn't exist, but yet you have leadership of your class. What did that look like? How did that translate? Because not many of us are class president, I'm certainly not my class president, and so I'm not sure what that leadership role looks like. Can you share a little bit more about some examples? Col. Joe Bledsoe 5:46 Yeah, I think that that leadership role was very different each year, right? As a freshman and a sophomore, as a four-degree and a three-degree, before any official academy leadership position starts to present themselves, that they do for two-degrees and firsties, it was a lot of helping the class stay as a collective whole, right? So one of the first big things as freshmen was selecting our class exemplar, right? And running like — how do, who do we select? How do we come together and figure that process out? How do we then, once we have a name, once we selected Robin Olds, how do we have a formal dining in? Things that I had never even heard of, right? As well as on the other side, the shenanigans, right? So, the spirit missions, right? There was many times I've had to go to the commandant's office and say, I don't know where the class crest is, like, out of pure honesty, right? But, like, that is, that was like a way, as an underclassman, that we kind of got that informal leadership, but also you're the leader by default here, so we're gonna, we're gonna make you accountable for your class. So I got to see both sides, that transitioning a little bit more to two-degree and first a year was now taking a little bit step back in writing in the informal leadership position, so I looked as myself as like a supporting agent, supporting member to our cadet leadership, and I always presented that like, “Hey, if you need our class to do something, I will do that, but if militarily you own that, like, I'm not ever going to step on your toes or push back,” right? The other thing we got, I was able to do is also help provide, like, morale inputs, right? Like you kind of had the pulse of morale, I think, more as the class president sometimes than in the official leadership, so could help provide some inputs along those ways, and there are some, say more shenanigans or morale events that we get to help put forth and present those to the cadet leadership for official approval later on as we firsties. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 8:04 Gosh, well, that was, I mean, it's really insightful for us to understand some of the roles that a class president and class cabinet plays, and so understanding that it's — I like how you put it as a supporting agent to the formal leadership. And we're gonna touch on this a lot more, because I think there's going to be times when you'll share how you build that trust and credibility throughout, both when you're a cadet and as an officer. But before we jump there, I happen to find out, Joe, that you weren't coming to the Air Force Academy to become a fighter pilot, but to become a physician. Can we talk about that for a moment? Col. Joe Bledsoe 8:37 Absolutely, that's absolutely a — I came to the Air Force Academy, wanted to be a doctor. I knew I wanted to be a biology major. I declared, I think, the first day I could declare and went through the gauntlet of getting ready for med school applications, and I loved every second of it. It was awesome. Even my fellow classmates would say he was a huge nerd and studying all the time, because that was my goal, right? I came into the Academy, and I wanted to be a doctor, and I knew the gauntlet that is, that that is required to do such a thing. And I still love medicine, right? I still love — I think medicine is fascinating. Every time my probably get there someday, or in the conversation, but anytime my kids have to go to the ER, like I'm like, “Can I scrub in,” right? All that kind of stuff. Yeah, put me in. I love medicine, and it wasn't till the summer between my two-degree and firstie year did I have that midlife crisis at the age of 21 and then firstie year is when that crisis kind of came to a head, and new doors opened, and here we are today, right? So that, yes, you're absolutely right. Always wanted to be a doctor. I was still fascinated by medicine, but now I'm just a pilot. So, there we go. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 9:57 So, can we, can you expand a bit more on it? So, was it a decision you wanted to make or a decision you had to make? Col. Joe Bledsoe 10:03 Yeah, yeah, that's great. It was a decision I had to make, ultimately, myself. Right? No one, no one said, “Joe, you can't be a doctor.” So, the summer — there's two key things that really happened that helped influence that decision. The first one was the summer between two-degree in firstie year, I had the opportunity to deploy to the Middle East, and we've heard of Ops Air Force. You know Ops Air Force. Well, at that time we had a deployed Ops Air Force, so they sent cadets overseas to deployed locations to see what was, you know, to get the full experience in a deployed location. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 10:40 Wow. Col. Joe Bledsoe 10:40 So I had the opportunity to do that. Spent the summer in CENTCOM and kind of opened my eyes to… Col. Naviere Walkewicz 10:47 Oh, Central Command. Col. Joe Bledsoe 10:47 Yeah, sorry, Central Command, and got to experience — I got attached to a C-130 unit, right, and I got to see what flying looked like in a deployed environment, and I kind of opened my eyes, where I've been hyper focused on medicine, right? Like, you know, so focused on this is what it takes to be a doctor. I kind of like put my blinders on to what the rest of the Air Force did, right? So I was like, “This is pretty, this is, these guys and gals are doing awesome stuff, like this is this is the pointy end of what was going on.” And that planted a seed, that planted a seed. So it came back, firstie year was doing the med school applications, going through, I had some free time in my academic calendar, and I got to go down to the airfield and do the powered flight program. So, I got to see flying over the summer, and then I was blessed enough to have the opportunity to go fly an airplane, and I was like, “OK, the seed was planted, let's see if I get air sick, like, let's see if there's anything else here that might make me not want to do this.” And I loved it. Right, I fell in love with flying down at the airfield. I came back, and I was like, I'm gonna pause the med school applications and put my name in the hat for pilot training, and the rest was history, right? So, doors open, doors close, right? But that was my story, and I loved getting to talk to cadets about that, because so many can be — so many times we see some that are hyper focused, and like there's always other options out there, and it's OK to have a crisis we can talk you through. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 12:23 I think that's a fantastic lesson that you actually learned early, because you know it's interesting — had you not been sent to Ops Air Force at a deployed location, you might not have taken Alex flight, and so you know when you think about leadership opportunities and lessons, this is one of those moments where it actually steered you in a new direction. So, as we think about that, I'm curious, how your family responded to that, because, you know, you had come to the Air Force Academy to be a doctor. Were they happy for you? Were they surprised, a little nervous? Col. Joe Bledsoe 12:57 Yeah, there was a ton of mentorship there, right? Not just from my family, but from upperclassmen peers, permanent party, like, “What are you doing? Like, you came here telling us this was your goal. Where did this new goal come from?” So, there was a lot of time talking that through, and I needed that myself. It wasn't, as you know, in any decision, like, it wasn't a snap decision. So, a lot of time walking through that decision process and leaning on mentors and kind of asking the questions, like I knew what four years of med school, and then residency, but I knew what that like, what does pilot training look like? How long does that take, right? So, a lot of questions to help answer, or to find answers through, and ultimately, my family was super supportive, super supportive, and they still joke, like, “Hey, how come you're not doctor.” Well, because I fly F-15s now, right? But all supportive all throughout the process, right? And that's where you lean on others, right? Lean on others, because it very much felt like a crisis, like I still have scar tissue over it. But looking back on it, it wasn't just me making — I ultimately made the decision, but they helped me through it. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 14:08 That's fantastic. You know, I think about you as an officer, as a fighter pilot, and obviously there's a lot of steps you took to get there on the road was certainly not easy. Often, though, I think that there can be some misconceptions, or maybe this is accurate, that earlier in your pilot life or your aviator life, there's probably not a lot of leadership lessons where you're leading others. Maybe, maybe that's a misperception, and we'd love to talk about that. You know, how do you find the leadership opportunities then when you are, you know, you're party of one, right? You don't necessarily have any direct reports. What does leadership look like there? Col. Joe Bledsoe 14:43 Yeah, can we take that back to like some lessons I learned at the Academy?   Col. Naviere Walkewicz 14:46 Oh, absolutely.   Col. Joe Bledsoe 14:47 Right, I think, I think that's where I've leaned most heavily in, like, not in there's this difference between formal leadership and informal, positional versus informal, and I was blessed enough at a pretty young age to learn the plus — the how to succeed and how to fail in informal leadership. I've tried to carry that throughout my career. So when you say like the younger days of being a wingman in the F-15 community, it's a lot about credibility. It's a lot about that peer leadership. How do you build the credibility? How do you build the trust to be someone that others look up to in that informal system, right, in that informal system. When they look down their phone, like, “Who do I call? Who do I have to call? Who do I want to call?” Right? and I think that's where you have to balance some of that stuff, and I spent time thinking about that, and trying to lean on lessons that I learned from the Academy, and while formal leadership positions were never handed to me, that doesn't mean you're not a leader, right? Like, you can't beat it, doesn't mean you don't just get to sit back and not lead. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 16:02 Can you share an example of a time when you learned that about yourself, or what that looked like?   Col. Joe Bledsoe 16:09 In the flying world? Col. Naviere Walkewicz 16:11 Or as a cadet?   Col. Joe Bledsoe 16:12 Yeah, as a cadet, I think the biggest one was — I'll take it back to, like, freshman, sophomore year, where I learned one of the key pillars that I'm convinced the Air Force Academy teaches all us grads about is time management, right? And I thought I was pretty good at time management, and then when you're now the president of 1,000 other cadets, your inbox fills up very quickly, right? Or you're like, “I thought I was good at time management.” And I learned very quickly that you can't do it alone, right? You can't do it alone, and I had to learn to surround myself with people that I trusted and that I could delegate or hand tasks off to, and just say, “I need this accomplished,” and I did that to my friends that I knew would get the mission done, right? And I had to have that level of trust, and I think that is translated throughout my career, where I inherently trust people with a project, right? I think there's two versions of trust, inherent trust and earned trust. When I look at the graduate network, whether that's the Air Force Academy, Navy, West Point, and I see a class ring, I'm like, “I inherently trust you,” and I can, I believe, or I see some other veterans have on — like, “I inherently trust you,” and then in other cases where I've had to learn and work with people, it's now, “I'm earning your trust, and I hope you're earning mine as well,” and that is this unique balance of I inherently trust you, I learned that at the Academy. Now let's build on that as a foundation and get this earned trust to as high as we can. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 17:54 What does some of that earned trust or becoming more credible look like when young leaders don't have the benefit of time? Right, so I, the more time I work with you, the more I learn about you. You build that credibility, etc. How does one accomplish that, maybe either shorten the gap or do that a little quicker or impactfully earlier? Col. Joe Bledsoe 18:18 Yeah, time is always — like we always need more time, right? How often do you say, like, “I only have 24 hours, but I need more time,” right? So, if we're always fighting time, like, and everybody's fighting time, then, like, that's a constant. So, let's not worry about time. So, I look at it as, like, what traits do people bring to the table, or what traits can we can we sharpen? Honesty, right? Honesty is huge. You have to be honest, and that's a pillar of trust. Integrity, right? Integrity first and showing people that you display integrity is really important. Humility, I think, is also really important. Humility is really important. I was listening to a podcast the other day, and it really struck home to me, a sense of humility is — if a leader is able to say three things, they're gonna — I know I could, I can build that trust, no matter what that time gap is. “I'm sorry,” “I was wrong,” or one of the seven basic responses: “I don't know, but I'll find out,” right? I think that's really important with humility. The other one is presence, not with a T, like we're not giving presents, but presence. Being present is really important character trait in my mind, and the fifth one that I try to reflect on a lot is action. Right? I think defaulting to not doing something is not what we want. That doesn't help build trust. Taking action with what knowledge you have and making a decision is really important, and I think those are the traits that help build that credibility, help build that trust in that time gap, whatever that looks like. If you can hit those, the five that I try to hit home. If you can do that, hopefully you're building that relationship that is going to foster — have great fruition out of it. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 20:06 That's outstanding, and that's really helpful, I think. I love how you took out the constant of time being an excuse, right? Like, we don't always have the benefit of time, whether it's time and getting more experience or just time in general, I think those are outstanding examples of how you can build credibility. So, thank you for sharing that. You know, one of the things that I also would love to kind of dig into a little bit of your experiences, Joe — because they've been really vast, right? So, I don't believe that everyone has the same kind of path. How have you grown as a leader in these different experiences that really, again, aren't positional leadership roles? I'm just curious, how your growth has been in that space. Col. Joe Bledsoe 20:47 Think a lot of it's been through failure. I think a lot of it's been through failure. These might not be huge, like we lost a million dollars, or like, not through those kind of failures, but relationship failures, or conversation failure at the micro level, and how I've tried to handle that is surround myself with people that will tell me that the emperor — I'm gonna go back to the, I'm gonna go back to the old fairy tale, or fable, right? If you surround yourself with people that are able to come up to you, and you trust them, and you trust their feedback, that is something I've tried, that was Cadet Bledsoe, advice given to me is Cadet Bledsoe. Surround yourself with people that you will listen to and take their feedback honestly. And sometimes that means if I don't have that person in the room and I know I fumbled a conversation or I made a poor decision, it's going to that individual and saying, “I messed up, I'm sorry, I was wrong,” or “I don't know,” right. And that's how I try to use that to present humility, I think, and that's important, because we're all fallible, we all make mistakes, and if I can't admit that, then, like, we're off to the wrong foot right away. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 22:06 Do you think some of that that skill that you've developed over time has been something that you've learned in, and forgive me, I don't know if it's a fighter pilot community, specifically, or you know, I think about when you do your sorties and you have some sort of debrief, right? I feel what I've heard, I've not actually sat in one, but they're very real. Like, there's no, it's not about making you feel good about it, like it's about the safety and the mission, and so I'm curious, if that skill of humility, and you know, calling a spade a spade, and calling it I'm wrong and I'm wrong, did that come from some of that experience, and maybe you can talk through what that's like, because not everyone, I think, practices at that level of transparency. Col. Joe Bledsoe 22:46 Yeah, the fighter pilot debrief. I learned some of the importance of that through mentorship as a cadet, and then that was sharpened as a fighter pilot. And I learned the importance of that through the form, my formal job, right, the mission, the lives at stake, aircraft, that kind of stuff. And I think I've tried, I've only honed that skill through Air Force training, right? The Air Force has trained me to think like that, and I've tried to translate that into my personal life and leadership positions, because I think there's tons of value to that. There is tons of value in being willing to find a mistake, own up to that mistake with the knowledge and hope that it doesn't happen again, right? And if that is like, if you, if that's your north star, we don't do this again, like, why wouldn't you want to be on that team? Why wouldn't, why don't you want to be? That's how we get better, right? And I think that seed again was planted as a cadet. Like, let's, I tell cadets all the time, like, you're joining the A-team, so put in A effort, right? Like, if you're going to join the A-team, I don't want B-players, and this is what we got to get, like, let's go, right? It's a motivating factor in my mind. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 24:08 What are some of the ways to approach that in a leadership conversation for someone who would be interested in taking on some of those, those learned lessons? Col. Joe Bledsoe 24:18 Yeah, I think the first thing is transparency and honesty right up front. Like this, Naviere, if we were flying together, right and you were my instructor, your job is not to degrade me as a human, but to prove to me that I made a mistake with the ultimate goal of making me better, right? Your job is to always, like — and the relationship you and I have as an instructor and a student is my — I'm gonna sit here in the debrief and go, and Naviere is here to make me better, right? Like, that's your, that's your job, right? Right. So, once you start that as the foundation, like, it can only get better if I know your job is to make me better, and your job is I'm supposed to make this guy better, right. And often we can, when feedback is provided, you're like, this could be a personal attack, or, like, that's all left out, that's all left outside the debrief room, right? Like, we're here to make everybody better, and I think that's where it starts: with that transparency and honesty up front of the expectation. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 25:15 So you'll actually say that. You would actually… Col. Joe Bledsoe 25:17 No, I think that's just a common, that's a common theme, right? That's the expectation in the community. And not just in the fighter community. I think it's throughout the Air Force, right? I think that's what makes us really, really unique. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 25:32 Because feedback is something that we, we do — although maybe some can do it better than others — I think that's a really fantastic way — before you're giving someone feedback, you're really clear on this is what we're hoping to accomplish by having this time together. And so, I think what you just said can make feedback so much more impactful, because it's not about the person, it's about what are we trying to accomplish and helping you, I guess. It is about you, but ultimately helping you. Col. Joe Bledsoe 25:59 Absolutely, right? Like the where every debrief starts is we had a mission objective and we had tactical objectives. Did we do them? If we didn't, let's figure out why, right? So translating to the business world or private sector, it's a root cause analysis, right? It's a root cause analysis, and we will get down to the nitty gritty of like, what type of error — did you make a decision error? Did you perceive the environment wrong? Did your actions cause the error, right? And we get down to that level, so that when the student, student Paveway walks away, Naviere, knows, Naviere, you gave me the exact, like, you decided wrong, because X, Y and Z; don't do that again. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 26:43 Right. Col. Joe Bledsoe 26:44 Here's your fix. You know, that debrief can take hours, and that's the beauty of it, right? “We're gonna sit there, and we're not gonna let anything not be uncovered, because we're gonna go do this again tomorrow, and we can't make the same mistake tomorrow,” right? “We can't make the same mistake.” Col. Naviere Walkewicz 27:01 No, that's, that's fantastic. I mean, to have it that clear, and to know it, like, OK, we're not gonna, we don't stay in that space. We've addressed it, we know we've identified a fix, and we move forward. Is that what you said? Col. Joe Bledsoe 27:12 Absolutely. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 27:13 There's no like, continue to revisit, like… Col. Joe Bledsoe 27:15 Yep, that's the point, right? Like, “I've learned something, I know, I've acknowledged my mistake. Let's move on. This wasn't personal, this was you making me better.” Iron sharpens iron, right? So, here we go, and then move on. And now that translates, as you asked kind of a couple minutes ago, right, that can translate to so many things in your life, right? And I try to do that sometimes, like my wife will tell me, I go too fighter pilot, but there's versions of that that translate as we are not in a fight or pilot debrief. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 27:50 You literally got in my head because I was gonna say, now I want to put you on the spot, because Joe, you are married to your high school sweetheart, you make a 2% club, right? Like, you actually started the Academy with a sweetheart and ended with the same sweetheart. And now you have three amazing, beautiful children. How do you translate that to, you know, feedback to your family or your personal life? And I love how your wife said too fighter pilot, but how about to your kids? Col. Joe Bledsoe 28:15 Yeah, married my high school sweetheart, Alicia. We started dating our sophomore year, and we've been together ever since. So she is not a grad, but she has a lot of Air Force in her blood, so that's great, and the kids, I would say there's a couple things when it comes to taking some things I've learned or been trained in the Air Force, translating on the home front. The first one goes to accountability, right? I think accountability is really important because in an aircraft, you have to be accountable for your actions, and I think that translates to being a parent, as well as trying to teach the kids some humility. Right, where to be humble, when to own up to your mistakes, and sometimes that works in the fighter pilot way, sometimes it doesn't, and I think that's leadership, right? You can have leadership skills and be consistent in some, in some ways, but other times adaptability is really important, especially with the kids, and each one of my kids is very unique, and we have to cater to each one of them and their unique skills. I will say about my wife, I love her with all my heart, but she knows the words “knock it off” as well, right, because that's a sacred word, not just in the military, but on our, in our homefront, and that usually means stop being a full fighter pilot, like go back to being Dad, right? So she knows, she knows the words and how to make that all go down. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 29:47 I love that it's another language, right? You have your, your fighter pilot language, and you have a home front language. I love that. Thank you for sharing that. You know, I'd like to switch gears a little bit to your time operationally, and maybe this translates into now your work at the Institute, or your most recent work at the Institute for Future Conflict and preparing cadets for the future fight. I'm curious, how all of these skills that you've learned, and these leadership traits that you've continued to develop in yourself, have translated in moments of, you know, like, real conflict, real distress, like when the stakes are high, and how you prepare cadets to think that way, even though maybe they've not experienced that. I'm just curious, what that looks like. Col. Joe Bledsoe 30:31 Yeah, it is hard to translate — like cadets love war stories, right? Like, “So there I was…” but it's hard to translate some of, like, the putting, having the cadets put themselves in the shoes of someone that has 15 years of flying under their belt, right? Like, that's hard for them to grasp, and I understand that, and that's not what I'm asking of them to do, but there are certain skills that I think are really important, and that I've got to experience and talk to cadets and research and spend time thinking about at the Institute for Future Conflict at the IFC. One is risk, right? How do we, how do we think about risk, right? Are we risk prone? We risk adverse? How do we think about risk, not just in this moment, but how does our decision today affect five days from now, a month, right? And, as you remember, because I know it happened to you as a cadet, like you're just in the, like, “What's my next problem,” right? What's my next — OK, how does, like, fixing this problem affect next week? Right. And I think that's what I've got had the opportunity to think a lot about the IFC, as well as try one thing I've learned being back here at the Academy was my experience as a cadet is not the same experience as the cadets now. And what do I mean by that is when I graduated, GWOT, Global War on Terror was the thing we knew what we were getting into. I very much knew flying, going to the Middle East. Now the cadets looked to me and other permanent party, and like, what's our fight going to look like? And right, the question mark is, I don't know, but let me tell you, think about this, and I could be wrong, and I think that is where I've had a lot of time to think about future conflict and what's problems, maybe not nations or adversaries, but like big meta level things they'll have to think about, information access, information sharing, trust, right? How do you, how do you help develop some of these skills in the cadets? And that's where I've spent a lot of time the last two years trying to think and spend, spend some brain bytes, like what does air power look like in this unknown environment? Col. Naviere Walkewicz 32:52 And as you're about to step back into it, I'm thoughtful of that, and so now you're taking what you've helped cadets start to hone in and think about. How are you different now as a leader going back into the cockpit than you were when you came to the Academy? Col. Joe Bledsoe 33:09 Yeah, let me get back to the cockpit, and everyone can tell me what, how I'm different. We'll use that as the test. But here's one thing I think — I've reflected on this recently, going back to the Strike Eagle community. One has been my exposure here in Colorado Springs and at the Air Force Academy, meaning I've learned a lot about what others do that I wasn't — I knew other jobs existed, I knew other AFSCs did things, but not being in a flying day-to-day ops tempo, I've had the opportunity to sit down and, like, “What do you say you do?” “Oh, that has some effects here, here, and here,” and I use a specific vignette would be, I've got to spend a lot of time in the management department and helped teach in the global logistics minor, and like, I knew there was logisticians in the Air Force, and like, that's yeah, right? That's how stuff got here, but like, understanding the importance of, like, that's how my bombs got here, this is how the b…, right, like, truly understanding their frustrations, I think will make me get less frustrated in my day to day, right, and I think that has been one thing that the Academy has given back to me the second time I've been here, is a little bit more exposure to the Air Force, as well as the Space Force, being here in Colorado Springs, like seeing what each team member, like each cog in the machine brings to the fight, right? And I think that's been a blessing here. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 34:42 So those that you will begin to get back working with — your men and women in your community — they won't have had that exposure, and so I'm now going back to our where we started with the sense of informal leadership. How do you help others gain that experience and thought, and maybe thought process informally, since they haven't really been exposed to that? How would you help them navigate it? Col. Joe Bledsoe 35:09 Naviere, I think the best way to do stuff like that is, like, you raised your hand when you said logistics officers, like Naviere, we're doing a podcast with my next squadron, you're coming to talk, right? Col. Naviere Walkewicz 35:19 Right, it's like that was like a long time ago, we need someone more recent. Col. Joe Bledsoe 35:24 But, OK, Naviere, it's not you, but you know people, that's how stuff gets done, right, that's how stuff gets done. And while I by no means want to stand up in front of everybody and say I'm the expert on logistics, but I, I'm not that person, but I trust Naviere, Naviere's contact here, and that's how, like, you create this network of knowledge and this network of trust and credibility. And to my, to the fighter pilots that I'll be flying with, it's somewhat like throwing mud at the wall sometimes, like we're gonna keep throwing mud and see what sticks, but at least they know it's there, right? Like, we're gonna, your job is still to go kill things and blow things up, but at the same time, you know there's this other network out there that you can lean into. But let me be a conduit to make that happen. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 36:15 That is awesome. That's fantastic. So I want to go into this period now, where we talk about you and your continued growth as a leader. What is something, Joe, that you're doing every day to be a better leader? Col. Joe Bledsoe 36:30 I have mentors, and I've tried to find mentees. I think that is where growth can happen, leaning on others for mentorship and mentees to try to talk through some things you've thought through and give experience and exposure to others, right? And that's that network we were just talking about, right? Other things I think are really important is reading and writing. Read a lot, write a lot, nobody writes good anymore, right? Thanks, ChatGPT. But being able to communicate in the written form is really important. So, writing and reading. And the other thing, too, is as a leader, just find an outlet, find something, find a hobby, find something that's fun to do, right. So, I got into running here at the Academy, because we're at high elevation, and I'm, why not, right? But find something that, like, rounds you out, right? It's fine, find an outlet that helps give you some relief from all the stresses that can happen in leadership. That's where I would say I spend a lot of time, or what I think about trying to sharpen my skills. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 37:34 Daily. So, what are you reading right now? Col. Joe Bledsoe 37:37 Oh, that's a great question. I have a couple books that are on the table. Mask of Command is one that I'm reading as I get ready to go back and potentially be in a leadership role. There's a couple other books that come to mind. I'm reading a baseball coaching book, because I coach my baseball, it's a basketball book by Coach K from Duke, as I go back to North Carolina, but it's a book, how to coach kids, right, Leadership on the Court, and it's fun to just think about training and coaching kids and how to keep them inspired. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 38:18 Oh, that's awesome. So, speaking of kids, if you were to go back in time, and talk to younger Joe Bledsoe, the third, what advice would you give him? Col. Joe Bledsoe 38:30 Yeah, if I had to go back, I would say it's worth it. Every second, work hard at the Academy, right? The doors that it opens, that's where my mind went when you asked the question, like, younger me at the Academy. Be good to Alicia, my wife, right? Be good, because she's going to be with you for a long time. So be good to her, as well as foster your, foster your friendships. They're going to mean a lot to you in the future, right? The relationships you build on that hill are going to come back in ways you have no idea years to come. So take time and prioritize the people that you meet. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 39:10 Those are really great reflections. Joe, is there anything that we haven't covered in our conversation that you would love to share with our Long Blue Leadership listeners and viewers? Col. Joe Bledsoe 39:24 Absolutely, be proud of this institution. I'm proud of it. I know you are too, Naviere. Proud of this Academy. Be proud of the cadets, be proud of the permanent party that work here. There's an A-team out there, and this is this is where it starts, right? And it's not just if you're serving in blue or in the Space Force, right? If you're out there doing awesome things for our country on the private, in the private sector, thank you. Keep doing what you're doing. There's no shade of blue in the Long Blue Line, that's my, my phrase for that one. There's no shade of blue. Serve your country, be proud. And that's — just be proud to be an Academy grad. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 40:07 That's fantastic. So, you know, in our time together, I have loved this, this, this leadership conversation, because we really span an area that I don't think a lot of people talk about, and it's, how do you demonstrate leadership in an informal way, you know, without titles and without necessarily key positions or in the hierarchical structure, and so some of the things that really stood with me, Joe, that you've covered, have been being credible, being present, and humble. I really like that, and you didn't say this in these words, but what I took from that was, you know, being honest and truthful is almost one of the most kind ways you can be right, because you're actually helping someone be better, and that really stuck with me, you know. I don't, we have an A-team, we don't need B-players, that I think you exactly said that, so definitely stuck with me. But watching the way that you have led, not with your class, not just the cadets, and, you know, certainly not the squadron that you will have here shortly as a director of operations, but I think you've continued to just be who you've always been, which is someone who leads with integrity through those pillars and certainly by example. So this has been an incredible conversation, and for anyone that is watching us and listening to this, for others that are in their leadership journeys, this is another one you're going to want to share, because it's not just about, you know, Lt. Col. Bledsoe's journey right now, it's been all of these moments and experiences and memories and they really do connect with anyone on a leadership journey. So, be sure to join in on longblueleadership.org or wherever you get your podcasts, not just to see this one, but all of our other conversations. So, Joe, thank you so much for joining us today. Col. Joe Bledsoe 41:46 Thank you Naviere. Go Air Force! Col. Naviere Walkewicz 41:48 Go Air Force!   Col. Joe Bledsoe 41:49 There we go. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 41:50 Absolutely, until next time, we'll see you on Long Blue Leadership. KEYWORDS informal leadership, peer leadership, Air Force Academy leadership, USAFA class president, fighter pilot debrief culture, building trust and credibility, leadership humility, future conflict and airpower, Long Blue Leadership podcast, military leadership lessons.     The Long Blue Line Podcast Network is presented by the U.S. Air Force Academy Association & Foundation          

This episode you meet John Mashl who grew up in RI and went to USAFA for engineering, as nav qualified. After suffering a major injury in wrestling class he eventually healed up and received his pilot waiver our Firstie year. Yes, that was against the flow of all our classmates losing their PQ's in that era (including yours truly) but John took it to UPT and flew for over two decades in USAF C-130 squadrons flying rescue and weather missions worldwide. Upon retirement from USAF he landed a pilot slot at Delta, got furloughed for over two years, returned to flying, and finally retired from them after 18 years. John has witnessed and lived through many aviation and life experiences and I'm sure you will be inspired by his story.

Congrats to another graduating class of Air Force Academy 2nd Lieutenants. Jeff has his annual discussion with FCA leadership and highlights what God is doing at USAFA with Ty Wright, Caleb McKee, Ryan Carter, and Jon Fagins.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

SUMMARY In this episode of Long Blue Leadership, U.S. Air Force Academy boxing coach Lt. Col. (Ret.) Mark Clifford '97 shares how the sport shaped his approach to leadership, service and mentoring the next generation of cadets. A strong conversation on resilience and growth.   SHARE THIS EPISODE LINKEDIN  |  FACEBOOK   COACH CLIFFORD'S TOP 10 LEADERSHIP TAKEAWAYS Leadership is about others, not you. Elevate the people around you—when your team wins, you win. Iron sharpens iron. Seek (and create) hard reps, tougher opponents, and uncomfortable situations to build real capability. Look for “dogs,” not resumes. Prioritize competitiveness, resilience, and willingness to get hit and keep going over pedigree. Turn on the hot water. Know when it's time to flip the switch from relaxed and joking to locked-in, all-business execution. Take the punch, then execute. Composure after getting hit—physically or metaphorically—is the true test of a leader. Accountability and care must coexist. You can deeply care for people and still enforce standards, discipline, and consequences. Bloom where you're planted. Be the best where you are before chasing the next opportunity; stop leading with the exit plan. Don't lead only with rank. Some of the strongest leaders on his team lead through work ethic, example, and quiet influence. Use mentors; don't go it alone. Pick up the phone, ask for help, and learn from those who've led through similar moments. Family and support systems are force multipliers. A stable, supportive home front enables you to show up fully for the mission.   CHAPTERS 00:00:00 – Intro: “Sometimes leadership means the mission stopped being about you” + Mark's accolades 00:01:40 – From hoops to the ring: leaving basketball, discovering boxing, and Coach Weichers' influence 00:03:55 – Finding “dogs”: how Mark recruits scrappy, resilient cadets and builds national champions 00:07:57 – Growing up competitive: family, academics-first father and rivalry with his brother 00:11:09 – Leadership from the ring: iron sharpening iron and elevating everyone on the team 00:14:30 – Warrior mindset: teaching cadets to take a punch, stay composed and execute a plan 00:19:00 – Riding the emotional highs and lows: coaching, winning, losing and not burning out 00:21:08 – Accountability with heart: tough call in Korea, stripes, and good order and discipline 00:24:36 – Competing together: peer squadron commanders, shared struggle and mutual support 00:28:05 – When you want to quit: advice Col. Clifford got, what he tells cadets now and “bloom where you're planted” 00:32:16 – Quiet leaders and culture: cadets who lead through work ethic and example 00:37:23 – Daily leadership reps: mental prep, PE classes, influence in the athletic department 00:43:11 – Talk to young Col. Clifford: trust the process, shake off negativity and the power of family support   ABOUT BIO Lt. Col. (Ret.) Mark Clifford, a 1997 graduate of the United States Air Force Academy and former National Collegiate Boxing Association champion, is in his second season as head coach of the Air Force boxing program after leading the women's team to its first NCBA national title in his debut season, highlighted by a program-record four individual champions and a sweep of the men's and women's NCBA Western Regional titles. A former team captain and three-time NCBA All-American as a cadet, Col. Clifford also served two stints as an assistant coach, contributing to four national team championships and 21 individual national champions. He retired from the Air Force as a lieutenant colonel after 20 years of service, including assignments as director of fuel operations for Air Force One, commander roles in Hawaii and South Korea, combat tours supporting Operations Iraqi Freedom and Enduring Freedom, and work on the Joint Staff at the Pentagon. Following his military career, Col. Clifford held leadership positions at Grand Canyon University and the DREAM Foundation, focusing on sports management education and mentorship opportunities for students. He earned a master's degree from the University of Maryland Global Campus and a doctorate from the University of New Mexico.   CONNECT WITH MARK LINKEDIN  |  FALCON ATHLETICS   CONNECT WITH THE LONG BLUE LINE PODCAST NETWORK TEAM Ted Robertson | Producer and Editor:  Ted.Robertson@USAFA.org Send your feedback or nominate a guest: socialmedia@usafa.org   Ryan Hall | Director:  Ryan.Hall@USAFA.org  Bryan Grossman | Copy Editor:  Bryan.Grossman@USAFA.org Wyatt Hornsby | Executive Producer:  Wyatt.Hornsby@USAFA.org     ALL PAST LBL EPISODES  |  ALL LBLPN PRODUCTIONS AVAILABLE AT USAFA.ORG/LONGBLUELEADERSHIP AND ON ALL MAJOR PODCAST PLATFORMS     FULL TRANSCRIPT OUR SPEAKERS: Guest, Coach Mark Clifford '97  |  Host, Lt. Col. Naviere Walkewicz '99   Col. Naviere Walkewicz 0:00 Sometimes leadership means realizing the mission stopped being about you a long time ago. I'm Naviere Walkewicz, Class of '99. Long Blue Leadership starts now. Mark Clifford, welcome to Long Blue Leadership.   Col. Mark Clifford 0:14 Thanks for having me. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 0:15 Absolutely, you know, we could jump right in, but before I do, I have to just talk about this. I had to write this down to make sure I didn't miss it. Boxing team captain, obviously; three-time Wing Open champ; three-time regional champ, three-time National Collegiate Boxing Association All-American, and the national champion of the NCBA your senior year.   Col. Mark Clifford 0:33 Yes, ma'am.   Col. Naviere Walkewicz 0:34 I mean, that's just, and that's just as a cadet. Then you went on to serve 20 years in the Air Force as a logistics readiness officer, you know, you're commanding and you're leading squadrons. In addition to that, on the higher education side, assistant dean at Grand Canyon University in sports business.   Col. Mark Clifford 0:49 Yes, yeah, ran the sport management program when I first got there, probably a year after I got there, just to get my feet wet with higher ed, and then was elevated to the assistant dean of the College of Business. And so it was, it was fun, it was amazing, it was very different from what you're used to in the military, because I tried to come in with a little bit of military mindset, but it's a civilian institution, so you know, just a little bit different, just bringing myself there and seeing what happened.   Col. Naviere Walkewicz 1:13 Well, you know, I guess what it shows is that you're not afraid to jump in and do, you know, something new. And I think that's — we'll probably discover that in the conversation today. So, maybe where we can start is the fact that you are back at USAFA as the boxing coach. You're here now running and leading the program that shaped you.   Col. Mark Clifford 1:31 Yes.   Col. Naviere Walkewicz 1:32 Let's talk about that.   Col. Mark Clifford 1:33 Yes, let's talk about — I mean, I love the program. You know, I came into the Academy, went to the Prep School, on a five-year plan, like some of us that need a little extra help, little extra year, you know. I took my time and really understand that came in, I'm such a competitor. I was playing basketball at the Prep School, came in my freshman year, hoping to be on the basketball team, worked really hard, did all things the coaches asked me to do, still sat the bench, and so, like a lot of cadets, like every cadet, even our women now have to take boxing class, you know, as a mandatory class.   Col. Naviere Walkewicz 2:04 When did that start? What year? Do you remember?   Col. Mark Clifford 2:07 I want to say 2017 is when the women started. It's always been instituted for our men. So my freshman year I did really well in the class, to the point where I had to box our assistant coach at the time, Ray Carter, for my GR, my test.   Col. Naviere Walkewicz 2:22 Did you get an A? Col. Mark Clifford 2:23 I got an A. But it hurt. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 2:26 For him? Col. Mark Clifford 2:27 Heck no! He was the one punching me. He busted me up pretty good, but I still got the A in the class, and coaches — the same system I use today — is trying to find cadets in boxing class that are competitors that are looking to do more than just be either a cadet or on the team that they're on or ride a bench. I got tired of riding the bench behind a couple of folks until sophomore year, coach came and said, “Hey, you still interested in boxing?” I quit basketball, went to boxing and the rest is history.   Col. Naviere Walkewicz 2:58 You didn't look back at all.   Col. Mark Clifford 2:59 No, you know it's hard to look back because it's shaped — I think we all kind of think back to our cadet years. I know I do sometimes, and kind of reminisce about, “What if?” I remember walking across the street one time, and my brother was ahead of me in '90s — Class of '96 — on the football team, and I was walking across the street as a freshman to basketball practice and ran across Coach Fisher DeBerry. “Hey, Clifford, will you come play football with me?” And so, you always think about opportunities that kind of cross your path, and I think about what would have happened if I would have done something different. I don't know if this story would be as successful as it is, based off of what I've learned in boxing and where I am today. And so, I'm very thankful for the program. I'm thankful for Coach Eddie Weichers, who shaped me, was a father figure for us when we were here. And you know, it's tough being a cadet, so you got to have allies and friends and people and mentors, and he was definitely one for me.   Col. Naviere Walkewicz 3:55 Well, I'd love to know, you know — he saw you in class and discovered that talent. How are you finding potential nowadays in the cadets for the program? Because you just happened to have the women who defended a national champion, won it. So, two years now have been the NCBA national champs. Col. Mark Clifford 4:15 I think it's a couple of things I look for. One is, how scrappy are you? I think it was easy at Grand Canyon University to find, you know, the era of COVID, and the resiliency wasn't quite the same as what I remembered when I was here as assistant coach, and as a captain and as a major, as well. The cadets are different, the mentality is different, and so kind of make it simple, I'm looking for dogs, I'm looking for cadets that a) are excited to fight, are not afraid to box, aren't afraid to get hit, love the intensity of the sport, and I can shape that, and you know, the potential piece of that is, can they throw a pretty good punch, and can they take a punch, and they're not, you know, they're not jumping out of the ring with that. That kind of translates into what we're looking for with all of our officers and all officer candidates, is making sure that they can stay there and take a punch, collect themselves, and then go back and execute, right? And so that's what I'm looking for, and I've tried to find those in classes, and you know, a lot of times it's a lot of the athletes.   Col. Naviere Walkewicz 5:21 Right.   Col. Mark Clifford 5:22 Because they're recruited here for other reasons, well, and other…   Col. Naviere Walkewicz 5:24 Other sports.   Col. Mark Clifford 5:25 Other sports, or whatever, and they want to be competitive, and as a freshman and a sophomore. It's tough, because you got juniors and seniors who have experience on the team. They're out there performing, and you're sitting on the bench, well, you know, I get you in the sport where you don't have to sit the bench.   Col. Naviere Walkewicz 5:43 That's right.   Col. Mark Clifford 5:44 It's top person wins. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 5:45 So when I think about the team that you formulate and you grow, and they continue to hone in our craft, is it always the athletes that you kind of, that maybe have been benchwarmers, or have you found the diamonds in the rough that maybe have never fought in their lives, and never — that kind of surprise you, that have risen to the top?   Col. Mark Clifford 6:04 You know, there are a lot of diamonds in the rough, there are a lot of, but back to what, there's a lot of cadets that come here that aren't necessarily on a divisional, we're lucky because we have 25% of our population at the Academy are divisional athletes. But there are so many other young cadets that are just as competitive, just as athletic, and looking for something else, and how do you give them something, right? And when they get to come to the Wing Open and see their classmates in the center of Clune Arena, and that thing is filled with all the rest of the Cadet Wing.   Col. Naviere Walkewicz 6:37 Yes, and grads and the community.   Col. Mark Clifford 6:39 And the community. They put the floor seats right there, you can sit ringside, it's an amazing thing. How do I be a part of it? And my philosophy is simple: If you enter the Wing Open and you win, then you're the person that represents this for regions and nationals. There's no favoritism, because I quote, unquote, recruited Naviere as a freshman. Now she's a senior, well, the senior gets her butt whooped, I'm taking a freshman. And so it's a very fair system, and so you find those diamonds in the rough. I'll give you one — two-time national champ. She's our team captain this year, Elise Bell. I don't think she's ever fought in her life.   Col. Naviere Walkewicz 7:16 Wow.   Col. Mark Clifford 7:16 When I walked in the gym last year, my first year, I just noticed her work ethic. How do you just pour into something like that and refine that in the gym to become a national champ. And last year — I just love to tell her story, because last year I believe in regionals and nationals, every first round she lost 5-0 to the judges. She was losing, and she won every bout.   Col. Naviere Walkewicz 7:42 Interesting.   Col. Mark Clifford 7:43 So it's just — you find those, and I'm hoping to find more of those cadets that just have that same energy, that resilience, that toughness and courage, really, and willingness to do what we ask you to do.   Col. Naviere Walkewicz 7:58 So, were you like that growing up? Were you someone that had this mindset of, you know, a work ethic and, you know, scrappy, you know, before even getting into boxing? Were you like that as a kid?   Col. Mark Clifford 8:09 I was just a competitor, and that's my father, that's my mother, that's my grandmother, my father's side, who was very — everything had to be put into place. My father was born in 1929 in Washington, D.C., went to Howard University, ROTC post-Tuskegee, and entered the Air Force through ROTC in 1949.   Col. Naviere Walkewicz 8:41 Wow.   Col. Mark Clifford 8:42 So his thing was academics, always. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 8:45 Yes.   Col. Mark Clifford 8:45 But I had a brother who was a year ahead of me, and it was academics for both of us. But how do you best the guy that's right next to you? Like, it was always just — my brother's name is Larry. That's what Larry and I always did, whether it was girls or sports, school, right? Yeah, it was always   Col. Naviere Walkewicz 9:02 You drove each other. Col. Mark Clifford 9:03 We drove each other, and it's just — it was amazing. You don't realize that until you're older, and so you go, “Yeah, that's what that did.” And so I think I was always just, 1) I was always a competitor, like I wasn't always the best, but I'd like to try to strive to be, and so that was just kind of how I was shaped.   Col. Naviere Walkewicz 9:22 So was your dad very excited when you — you were recruited to the Academy, is that correct?   Col. Mark Clifford 9:28 My dad kind of wanted me to go — more so than maybe I wanted to go.   Col. Naviere Walkewicz 9:34 When did you realize, like — because obviously you were on the five-year plan, right? So I think you had a couple of times to make a decision, like, “I'm good,” but you stayed. So when was it that it really connected with you that this is where I want to be, and I want to stay. Col. Mark Clifford 9:47 Probably after my sophomore year.   Col. Naviere Walkewicz 9:50 OK.   Col. Mark Clifford 9:50 Yeah, because my first three years, like, I wanted to play basketball so bad. I was trying to recruit myself. This is when you had to go send out your videotape. You know what I'm saying. You're there with me.   Col. Naviere Walkewicz 10:01 Yes, yes, paper. Email's not the thing back then. All paper.   Col. Mark Clifford 10:05 All paper. I'm trying to send videotapes out. Spring break at the Prep School, I think I went to Cal Riverside and tried to meet with the coach and drop off my tape. That's how bad I wanted to play basketball, right, and then I found success in boxing, and it was, I think, why go anywhere else? You start to realize, you get over, like, you're gonna have a job when you graduate. I don't have to look for a job, I don't have to go out there and struggle. I'm gonna get what I want to do out of the military, and it's gonna be a five-year thing for me, and then I'm out, right? And so I think that's what it was. I think it was my sophomore year, and I was going, my grades are terrible. I could say that now. It was — but no one's ever asked me for my GPA. I still was able to get a doctorate. Like, there's things that happen in your life that you'll still be able to achieve success, even though you weren't as great at it before. And so, yeah, I think it was just the realization of, “I could do this.”   Col. Naviere Walkewicz 11:09 So in that journey of, you know, wanting to play basketball so bad, finding a space and a place that really you started to hone in on yourself in boxing, and then, you know, went into the Air Force, you were leading. What have you found out about yourself in a leadership perspective through those different situations, whether you ended up not playing basketball or something that went really well for you, like national champ?   Col. Mark Clifford 11:35 I think just overall leadership was the ability for me to impact others to be successful, and I think that's what I took out of boxing, because it is an individual sport, but it's very team-oriented. We don't put banners on the wall that say “national champion” without a team mentality to make sure that our teammate, left and right of us, are also excelling. And so, in a small sport like boxing, at a time where I boxed, there was 12 weight classes, but you're boxing the guy above a weight and below a weight, because you're trying to make that person better, iron sharpens iron.   Col. Naviere Walkewicz 12:10 Right.   Col. Mark Clifford 12:10 I also had, I was a 172-, 175-pounder boxing the heavyweight, because in my mind was no one's gonna hit me as hard as this guy is gonna hit me.   Col. Naviere Walkewicz 12:19 That's right.   Col. Mark Clifford 12:20 And so if I can stand and get and last with this guy, I can last with anybody in college boxing. And that flowed for me into the military of — and part of my philosophy was how do I elevate everybody else, because I realized here at the Academy it's not about us, right? We're in the people business to make sure people around us are elevated, have the things that they need, resources they need to make sure that they're doing the job the best of their ability. Because then the unit does better as a team. The wing does better as a team. It's not about us individually. And so I think for me being able to translate that out of boxing into my Air Force career was part of what shaped me as a leader to make myself successful.   Col. Naviere Walkewicz 13:02 Did you find yourself seeing if anyone could take a punch from you in your Air Force uniform, or how did you do that?   Col. Mark Clifford 13:10 Well, you know, I punch my words when I know you can't put your hands on people.   Col. Naviere Walkewicz 13:16 Of course.   Col. Mark Clifford 13:19 You know, back in the early days, you know, I think the chief excused me from a meeting, and the meeting was back behind the fuel watershed. I can't remember…   Col. Naviere Walkewicz 13:32 Fair enough.   Col. Mark Clifford 13:33 Some wall-to-wall training that was going on with other individuals, but hey, chief said it was good. Roger that chief.   Col. Naviere Walkewicz 13:40 That's hilarious.   Col. Mark Clifford 13:41 Yeah, no, you know, you don't put your hands on people. I used to have to tell people, “Don't let my smile fool you,” you know. I like to have a good time, I enjoy myself, I enjoy the people that I'm around. Also, I know our job is very serious, and I was very serious about our job. And so, part of my leadership philosophy was always — my dad's thing was the Golden Rule, you know, treat people the way that you want to be treated. And I always — there's some things here at the Academy that I didn't love, so I took away from, “I'm not going to be that type of person,” into accountability, holding people accountable, myself included. And so even at the Academy, as a knucklehead cadet, I did goofy stuff. I'd be the first one to say, yeah, I take my lumps, march my tours, take my Form 10, do what you need to do, but just survive the place and learn from it, and it shapes you out as a leader.   Col. Naviere Walkewicz 14:31 Absolutely. You know, I'm curious, because I think about — you just said, “I like to have fun,” and you know, “but don't let my smile fool you.” You know, when you think about boxing and the mentality you have to have to literally stand across from somebody and hit someone, or take a punch, or you know, be hit back. How do you train that kind of mindset? Because I have to think it parallels a lot with the fact that we are developing warfighters. You know, how do you train that?   Col. Mark Clifford 14:57 Yeah, you know, that's kind of the bottom line of the boxing class. It's not about finding championship boxers. The boxing class is about exactly what you just outlined. It's how do you, as an individual, put a strategy and plan together knowing that you have an adversary across the ring that's going to hurt you. Like, the object of the game is to punch you. Pros is more so to hurt you. College boxing, amateurs, more to score more points than you. Bottom line, they'll hurt you, and that mentality of how do you compose yourself? Do the things that we asked you to do: a) defend yourself, b) have an offensive plan, even if you're losing, how do you compose yourself? Right, part of that warrior spirit is making sure that we always have that mindset of how we're going to achieve and beat our adversaries, and I think that's the bottom line of the boxing class. It's just, how do we do that? So, the mindset is exactly that, is you know you're gonna get punched, but can you punch that person when they punch you? Can you put some other things in place that I gave you tools — that I gave you, head movement, defensive movement — to take those punches away, right? From a strategic standpoint, and then be offensive, and then score your points.   Col. Naviere Walkewicz 16:11 Right.   Col. Mark Clifford 16:11 And so that's the mentality we try to have boxers to make sure that this is a sport where you're gonna get hit. Once you get past that hurdle, it's good, right? It's how you work on all these other skill sets that make you better than your opponent. And if the other person's just as skilled as you are, what's the edge that we get? And I think that's part of our mental preparation that we do as well as our physical preparation.   Col. Naviere Walkewicz 16:34 So I think about you shaping that for the team, both the men and women. How was that shaped for you? Was that your coach at the time, Eddie Weichers? Was that Wiechers? Was that someone in your family? Who were those mentors in your life?   Col. Mark Clifford 16:45 For me, it was Eddie Weichers and Ray Carter. Ray Carter was an enlisted assistant coach, and he was four-time, I think, All-Air Force heavyweight champ. Those two were instrumental for me, especially during my career times, before my time as a boxer, because I would work hard, work out a lot with Coach Carter, because the same mentality helped with a heavyweight. If this big joker can hit me, I can take the punch… He's also going to teach me some things. I mean, Coach Weichers was the same. It was the mental piece that his thing was knowing to turn on the hot water, and it was because I would have a good time, enjoy practice, have fun with the guys, but when you step in that ring, turn the hot water on, it's all about business. So, then, when you step out, turn it back on to cold, go back to goofing off and doing things that you do, but you get in there, it's all about business. And so, how do you train your mind to go, like, man, “I gotta go to war right now?” And it was, you know, I had a preparation before I got to the ring, and some things that I did that helped me mentally prepare before I jumped in there, but…   Col. Naviere Walkewicz 17:52 What did you do?   Col. Mark Clifford 17:53 You know, again, it was the Walkman CD Walkman, the CD Walkman. And I couldn't jump around too much because it was Skip. Yeah, the CB was skip had the little baby headphones had my little do rag on and I would just zone out on some music, I would zone out on music until it was time for me to get up and do my physical warm up with some jumping some rope shadow boxing and maybe little hand mitts with the coach before I jumped in the ring, but OK, yeah, it was a, you know, I couldn't jump around too much. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 18:25 It would skip, that's true. Now they just have — they don't have to have anything connected, just put in their ears.   Col. Mark Clifford 18:30 I'm jealous about it, to be honest.   Col. Naviere Walkewicz 18:35 So I imagine when you're coaching, and I'm saying I imagine because I've not coached ever to this level. I coach my son's little league basketball team, but which is a whole different level of coaching, but what I find curious is, have you ever found yourself in the feeling of, because you know how it felt when you win, when you lose, and when you watch your cadets going through that, how does that affect you as a coach? Col. Mark Clifford 19:01 Yes, I'm learning to not, I'm learning to not ride the emotion like they do, but I definitely did my first year, I think, as an assistant coach. So, I was assistant coach with Coach Wishers five years total as active duty officer, and that was different because I was on the sideline, he was the main guy, I was a support guy, but when you're the head guy, you're the one that gives the kids advice, giving them the strategy, and then really I felt it at nationals, especially when we started to win in with our women, we our first female won in the first half of the day, a freshman, I don't know if she was expected to win. She didn't expect to win, but in our hearts, in our minds, we knew. And then this is the motion, because I know how hard they work and what it takes to get your hand raised, because I came up short my first two years when I'm the guy standing with my hands down, the other guy's hand is raised, and then getting my hand raised my senior year was the most amazing feeling. I rode that same emotion when we lost, when we won, and I was worn out and tired. So I'm trying to train myself not to try to ride that emotion, but it's hard, like you know. I want to be in there with them, and I feel the same things that they feel, because I went through that same process they went through. And so it's interesting dynamic because I'm trying to peel myself away from mine. I just haven't detached yet. I think I'm still emotionally and mentally driven by what happens with our cadets, and it's a weird feeling. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 20:36 I imagine as a leader that's probably a common challenge you have because you care so deeply about your team, like family, that you do get emotional, right, and that might even be one of the sharpest knives in your, in your kit. It's just, you know, how you employ it, I guess.   Col. Mark Clifford 20:52 Yeah, you know, that reminds me of a really tough situation when I was a commander in Korea. Back to, had to hold somebody accountable with that person. Part of the discipline action was taking a strike, right, blah blah blah, the things that happened for something negative, right, but he's such a good person, and it was a first, first mistake, but it was a big one, and what that led to was a person dropping rank, but then hitting higher tenure, and couldn't test for the next strike, and so I really struggled with that, and had really tough conversations with not only the group chief, but my commander, right, and my chief, my first sergeant. Is this really the right thing for this individual? I think ultimately for good organ discipline. Yes, I think emotionally because it was a small unit. We were in Korea, his, he had his wife there, I had my family there, right? So they became friends, close, right, close enough, because such a small group, and that's the type of organization that I like to have, because I think if it's you, almost play that disappointment role or daddy role, or whatever, however you want to characterize it, that leadership style, but it was, man, you really got to depend on your brother or sister, you let that person down, and you let us all down. Yes, and so that's part of my leadership style, especially in Korea. I took over for a commander that was let go and fired, and so there was a whole cultural change I had to do, so that was when the “don't let the smile full you” happened, right? And you just had to make sure that you held people accountable. That was one of the tough ones where emotionally you're going, "Man, am I making the right call?” Organizationally, absolutely. Personally, for that individual, it was tough. It was tough. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 22:36 How did those moments stretch you as a leader? I find that fascinating, because you do. You have such a warm and, you know, fun personality about you. I mean, I think when you think about command and the decisions you've had to make at different times, both in the ring, out of the ring, in uniform, et cetera. How did you grow as a leader?   Col. Mark Clifford 22:53 I think we all grow every day. I think, for me, I lean a lot on my mentors. I'm not afraid to ask for help, right? I learned that early in my career, that it took me a while, because I was in the way, but it took me a while to understand that I can pick up the phone and ask somebody for help, and they're going to help you, because, as an organization, our Air Force, our Space Force is all about making sure people are successful. We don't set people up for failure. Why? Because if one individual fails, yeah. So I think for me making those tough calls was was challenging, because because of my leadership style. I think it was, I want people to get along, I want our team to be meet the standard of excellence, if not exceeded. I want us to be always on that front edge, because I'm a competitor. Yes, I want to be the best, but also that comes with accountability and tough decisions. And I think when you have to be in the moment, make some of those tough decisions, that's you just have to go back and reflect. You have to lean on people that do the same thing. I had a great group of fellow squadron commanders at my first command in Hawaii, that's a really terrible basis to go to, that's why I stayed there for 20, that's why I stayed there for 20. The plan was five. Oh, yes, yeah, 20 happened because I had some great people around me, and I, and the bases weren't bad either, and so my family loved it, and we saw some rough assignments, but it ended up being great, but I can lean on my fellow squadron commanders if I had some enough time. But it was just a bitch session, or if it was a leadership lesson. Most of us were about the same year group, age group. I think one or two of the commanders was a year or two ahead of me, but it was just — we weren't competing with each other. We were making sure we were all competing together and being successful together. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 24:53 I think about that theme of being a competitor, and I remember you telling me about your brother and your dad. So, has there been a continued, you know, competition, and how you guys have done in your, in your careers and in life, or have you leaned back to your dad, like, “Hey, Dad, so how do you go about this?”   Col. Mark Clifford 25:09 No, you know, we unfortunately lost my dad a couple years ago.   Col. Naviere Walkewicz 25:13 Oh, I'm sorry. Col. Mark Clifford 25:13 No, it's OK; 94 years of an amazing life. I found some old pictures of him and Chappie James, which is pretty — talk about history and legacy. But no, I think my brother — I found out — so, my brother left after his sophomore year. He hadn't finished the Academy. He stuck around here another year, so my sophomore year, and I really came to find out, although we competed against each other our entire lives, he was my No. 1 fan, and I didn't even know it. It was like — he would tell me stories of, I think, my first Wing Open, maybe my second Wing Open — my first Wing Open sophomore year, that he, for the first time, said some cuss words next to my dad because they were in the stands, because he was cheering for me, and it was just funny to hear, like, we're grown-ups, but you can't cuss in front of my dad. You don't say those things. He was like, “Oh no, Dad's gonna get me.” But no, I think since then it's been a really supportive relationship, and like anything that I do, he'll call me as soon as we're competing anywhere as a coach now, ask how we did, how the cadets did, he said he's proud of me, I'm proud of him too, and he's doing real estate in Southern California with his wife and his family. So it was weird to see that, or hear that from him, because it was always like…   Col. Naviere Walkewicz 26:31 Yeah, you were always like mmmm mmmm. Looking over your shoulders. Col. Mark Clifford 26:35 Yeah, like who's going to get who? But it was awesome. It was kind of cool.   Col. Naviere Walkewicz 26:38 I love that, and I'm just thinking, you know, I'm sorry to hear of your dad passing, but I'm sure throughout those years you had many calls to him about, you know, some of those decisions you had to make in uniform, and I'm sure he was extremely proud of you making it a career.   Col. Mark Clifford 26:51 Yeah, yeah, I think he also was surprised I lasted as long as I did, just because I was so against it early on in my career. But no, I've been super proud, and it was always good to come home and just kind of share some stories with him, and he would reflect back on his stories, and he was a fighter pilot, and so just some of his fighter-pilot stories, and you know, the things that shaped me — talk about moments in your career and moments that shaped his career. It was just — it's just cool to have somebody like that in a different era that can share the different challenges, but also the same.   Col. Naviere Walkewicz 27:31 That's a good point. Yeah.   Col. Mark Clifford 27:32 I think that's what's interesting with the military, like, and coming back to the Academy is a perfect example. Like, there's challenges that we have, they're kind of the same that we've had, probably 15 years ago when I was here.   Col. Naviere Walkewicz 27:45 Like a cycle.   Col. Mark Clifford 27:46 It's a cycle. Yeah. So it's like now you have new leaders, how do they work through these different challenges differently than we did before? Not that we need to repeat history, but at the same time, you know what I'm saying, it just becomes a cyclical thing, that was how do we work. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 28:03 How do we navigate that? Yeah. Col. Mark Clifford 28:05 The same stuff, yeah. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 28:06 I want to go back to something you said, and I think it probably plays into some of the cadets that you work with, and or help to coach. You talked about how you weren't sure you wanted to go to the Academy, and staying, you know. The idea of quitting is where I'm really kind of going. What advice have you received to help you not quit, or to kind of push through when you wanted to quit? And have you seen that with cadets, and how are you navigating that?   Col. Mark Clifford 28:29 Yes, and yes. I think the best advice I received when I was thinking about quitting was, “Just really ask yourself why, what's the purpose, and then where you're going to go, like what's the plan?” And that's what was one of my dad's themes was, especially when I got out, was looking to navigate civilian jobs, right, but you don't leave something unless you got something else in your other hand. And so I was like, “How do you really focus in on being the best at where you're at, right, before you even think about stepping somewhere else?” And I had to reflect on that, especially as a cadet, was I really being the best at where I was as a freshman? Sophomore, I could tell you no, because I wanted so many other things, and it wasn't had anything to do with the Academy, had nothing to do with the Academy, but you know…   Col. Naviere Walkewicz 29:21 You were focused on basketball…   Col. Mark Clifford 29:23 Focused on other things until I could really be the best at all the things, and it's a balance here at the Academy — academically, militarily, athletically. I wanted to be the best athletically. How do I go win a national championship as the boxer? And so I found out that you've got to prioritize, which is… Right? We all had to do that. We all have to do that in our lives today. And so my priority was boxing, because I wanted to be great at athletics; academics, because I knew I can't get out of this place unless academics met the standard.   Col. Naviere Walkewicz 30:01 And you couldn't box here…   Col. Mark Clifford 30:03 And I couldn't do that without the academics. My dad saying, like, “You don't do anything else unless your academics are where they need to be.” And lastly — it was OK for me militarily. I can make the military stuff work. It wasn't my party. Maybe I should have bowed a little bit more. So I share that with our cadets. Is how do you balance those things that want to make you successful? The one thing I tell the cadets now is, because I've been in the civilian world, it's tough. Like, if you leave here, you got to navigate A, go get a degree, and then B, trying to find a job which meets your standard and the standard of living that you want to have, it's going to be difficult. It's not — and so it's still a cadet's choice. Yes, and we've talked to them about, like, all right, make sure you put things in place to make yourself successful. But I try to give them same advice. I said, “There's no other place outside of the three military academies where you're going to go through a really tough time, you're going to have really awesome friends, you're gonna have a great experience, and, oh, by the way, you have a job, and you graduate — with free medical and dental, like that stuff's not cheap. Yeah, so I, you know, I think I share those things with the cadets, especially when they talk about leaving. And then I like to share — I try not to go back to, “Oh, back in my day” with that.   Col. Naviere Walkewicz 31:19 Because our day was a long time ago.   Col. Mark Clifford 31:21 Now you didn't have to say it out loud. I think we know that, but it's true, you know, it's there are still some challenges out there, but they have to navigate the waters, and there's some things that they do differently now at the Academy that we did when we were at the Academy, but this is a really cool place. It's a great place to be from. It's a great place to put on a resume when you decide to get out of the military after your obligation. It's a great place because they're gonna give you a job and occupation. You get to fly jets if that's what you want to do. There's so many opportunities here that the cadets have.   Col. Naviere Walkewicz 31:59 Yes.   Col. Mark Clifford 31:59 And I just overload them with that, because I think it is an amazing place. And the reason why I come back to it, because I think so highly of what it's done for me and shaped me. How can I do that for others and mentor others to make sure that they have a similar experience, but a successful one, no matter what their story is.   Col. Naviere Walkewicz 31:17 Can you share an example of a cadet that surprised you from a leadership perspective, because of their work with you and their time in the ring.   Col. Mark Clifford 32:25 Well, it's hard. So I'm only in my second year. I've got a couple of seniors this year. Elise Bell is one of them. Her fiancé, Kamari Jackson, is a cadet I met when I was here. He was starting his junior year, he's coming off a neck injury, and I challenged him because he's hanging around the gym. I didn't know why. Now I know why. I thought it was boxing, it wasn't. It was Elise, but I'm good with that, you know. I would whisper in Elise's ear, try to get him back, because he was really good as a freshman. Then got hurt, but he's another young man that's just took leadership by the horn. Came in back this year, I challenged him to be at a certain weight. He said, “Coach, I'm coming back, I want to win it. I made weight.” I didn't think he was going to make the weight his first semester, fall semester. He was a squadron commander, plate is full but still made it down. Was one of those — he wasn't our team captain, but he was a team captain.   Col. Naviere Walkewicz 33:26 Yes.   Col. Mark Clifford 33:27 It was just one of those…   Col. Naviere Walkewicz 33:28 …leading without rank or title.   Col. Mark Clifford 33:30 You didn't need it, yeah, but he just had that. He has an aura. I wouldn't say he surprised me. I just think it was just one of those success stories where you're going, man. I love to have a team like this that just — and we do. They lead in their own way. We've got some quiet ones; I've got some vocal ones. I've got ones — our senior this year, our heavyweight, the one that won the Wing Open, he did it with his work ethic. Elise Bell, she leads with her work ethic. There are different ways of leading in the gym, and I try to harness that, and then elevate those that are doing it, making sure the team sees what they're doing. There's a young lady, she's very quiet, prior enlisted two-time national champ now. She's won three Wing Opens, she's gonna probably get her fourth as a senior, she's gonna be our team captain this year, because she's quiet, but it brings out her show, forces her to use her voice a little bit more, because she does it quietly with her work ethic in the corner. But you all see her because she's always in the ring and she's always working. So, I wouldn't say they surprised me just yet. I haven't had so many surprises just yet, but I've had some that has solidified my resolve in why I came back because they understand where they're going, they're learning what leadership is, because you don't always have to vocally stand on the pedestal and be the person on top to be a leader, and I love that piece of this.   Col. Naviere Walkewicz 34:56 So, I'm sure maybe this is a silly question, but obviously you have been assistant coach in the past. What made you come back as head coach?   Col. Mark Clifford 35:03 It's a silly question, Naviere. These cadets — no, this place is special. I love the Athletic Department. I mean, back to what it's done for me: I had the opportunity to come back as a young captain, working in the athletic department, was able to get a doctorate degree out of this place, was able to come back again and be around the cadets to learn more from Coach Eddie Weichers. And I think all of those parts and pieces helped develop me, because it put me in positions where I was able to grab jobs and be in positions to be successful. I had no business picking up a squadron command the second time I was here, but I was able to pick up the squadron command, because I had people pulling for me, pushing for me, and that's what you go back to, like you said before, what helped shape you, and that it's just the people around here that help shape me. And how do I come back and give back to an institution, to a department that really shaped me as an individual? And that's what I'm doing. I think I come back because it's — I want to see the cadets who struggled like me, and I find them in class too, that are debating whether they want to be or not, looking for something else to be a part of, and I always invite them to be part of the boxing family, because I know what boxing did for me and others who went through this program that were competitive, that couldn't make another team, or wasn't on a different team that wanted to show their skill that wanted to balance something from the academic side, because that is so stressful. Punching something is very stress relieving. There's something about it — especially if I can punch something in the face in front of other people and not get in trouble — I was doing it. And so I think being able to come back and give that opportunity to other cadets and then watch them flourish with it and grow with it, I think is why I'm back. And so I'm thankful for the athletic department. I'm thankful for the Academy. So, how do I pay it forward in my way, paying it forward? This is my way of paying it forward.   Col. Naviere Walkewicz 37:02 I love that. Well, I want to ask you something that we ask our guests on this, because it's really about how you continue to hone your skills as a leader through all the journeys, right? In uniform, out of uniform, in the private sector, higher education, etc. What is something you do every day to be better as a leader?   Col. Mark Clifford 37:23 Well, you know, I think is internally, “How do I have an impact,” as a head coach in the athletic department, and I'm not an NCAA sport like some of our other coaches. How do I impact people around me in my sphere of influence? It's very different now when you're an officer, when you're a commander, you have entire unit that you have impact on. Mine are smaller. One, it's internally with my team, is how do I lead and impact my team, and so I want to make sure that I'm always prepared to support our cadets through practice, having a plan for them so they know when they walk in the door what we're supposed to do. Because I think that's important from a discipline standpoint of knowing and understanding what I have to do when I get to the gym, and what my end goal is. And I always come in for that mentally prepared, and then mentally preparing them for the rest of the season, because we have a long season. And then I always think about my series of influence. I'm in the athletic department on the physical education side. How do I make sure I am prepared for the other cadets in classes that aren't on the team? Make sure they have a positive experience in PE class, but also I make sure they know that I'm a grad. I make sure that they know I'm a high-level guy, because I think there's value in that when they can always ask questions that are driven towards operational air force, not necessarily about this particular class. So I make sure I'm prepared for those cadets, and then how do I then allow myself to be available for the rest of the department, not only the physical education department, but our athletic directors, and making sure that I'm a resource. I've been here before, right? I understand something. I may not have all the answers, but I'm willing to help the support. I'm always preparing myself daily for the cadets and the staff and the folks around me that my sphere of influence has, at least the best part of me every time I can work. And so I think daily for me it's a mental preparation, but also, you know, prepping for the day of the day of, from a leadership perspective, because my leadership role is very different now than what it was when you're active duty, when you're sitting at Grand Canyon University as a dean or assistant dean, right? Your influence is very different.   Col. Naviere Walkewicz 39:40 So mentally you prepare yourself. What does that look like as far as like activity, right? So, are you taking care of yourself physically, so that you have the capacity to do more? Are you — I'm just curious, like, what does that look like when you say you're preparing yourself? Col. Mark Clifford 39:56 I do a couple of things. I think in the morning when I get up, I have a cup of coffee, and we typically — my wife and I typically watch the news together. It is thinking about the impacts of what happens in our world, how that impacts our Academy. I don't think — there's very little ripple effect that gets to the cadet, but also understanding why what's happening in our world is important to a cadet. I always try to prepare myself for those conversations, just in case they come up, and they have come up in classes sometimes. But I just give my perspective more so. Physically, I hit the gym, I work in a gym, so my wife says I have no excuse, at least you better be in a gym using equipment. I physically do that, and then I try to make sure I walk through our gym and put pieces together, equipment together, and make sure the equipment's in place and ready for our cadets, and sometimes I box and stuff. I gotta stay sharp.   Col. Naviere Walkewicz 41:01 I was gonna ask, you know, how that you did with what was his name, the assistant coach at the time, Ray…   Col. Mark Clifford 41:06 Ray Carter.   Col. Naviere Walkewicz 41:07 Yes, are you ever across in the ring with someone; with a cadet?   Col. Mark Clifford 41:12 My first year, I did. My last year, I let the young captains and majors do that. I realized that my mind will say do something — move out the way. I don't move out the way as quick as I used to, but I think I do.   Col. Naviere Walkewicz 41:27 Then you feel that you didn't. Col. Mark Clifford 41:12 Exactly. I didn't. Never let the cadets know they got you.   Col. Naviere Walkewicz 41:33 That's funny. All right, I want to ask you one more question. What's something, if you could have a conversation with young Mark as a cadet today, what would you tell yourself?   Col. Mark Clifford 41:44 I think the one thing I would tell myself is, trust the process, be the best that you can be, where you are, and where you're playing it, and do that to the best of your ability, and then shake off the negativity and the nonsense. I had some great friends here, but also some friends that didn't want to be here either, and so you feed off that negativity. I think that got into who I was, especially as a young cadet, because some of that negativity that probably kept me from being my best in certain areas, especially academically, especially militarily, because I think if I were able to do that, maybe my outcome probably would have been on the same trajectory, but also it would have been more positive experience,   Col. Naviere Walkewicz 42:27 Less painful for sure.   Col. Mark Clifford 42:29 Yeah, not chasing other things, trying to get your tape out, go recruit somewhere else. You're happy where you are, you're doing the best that you can, and it's going to be challenging, tough. And understand that you're going to take some losses, that's what this place is about. It's not always going to be a win, because in life, it's not always a win. And if you can bounce back from a loss, at some point it took me two years, in that third year, I bounced back in the loss to get that W, life becomes very, very easy. Yeah, you kind of figured out, so that's what I tell myself to prepare myself a little better. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 43:05 No, that's excellent. What's something that we didn't talk about today that you would really like to make sure that we share?   Col. Mark Clifford 43:11 I think we kind of talked about it, family, my family, my wife's been my rock for almost 30 years, we're on 29 this year, we're going on 30. We've got two boys that say they don't want to be in the military, I don't want to move. My oldest son is not in the military, he's moved three times since he graduated college two years ago. And then the youngest one, who didn't want to do it, would join officer training school in July.   Col. Naviere Walkewicz 43:34 Congratulations!   Col. Mark Clifford 43:35 Yeah, super-proud. He's taking an eight-week route, not the five-year route. So, I don't know if he's smarter, I don't know how to play that one, but you know, I can't say enough about making sure that your family supports what you do. I could not have been as successful or do the things that I was able to do in the Air Force without my wife Elise and my two boys, Caleb and Jaden, without their support, because there were some tough times when you're deployed and you're gone and you just need that rock to make sure that the household is good, so you focus on your job while you're gone and be home in your home, and she made sure that we did that when we had opportunities, and she also, no matter where we went, made sure it was a home, and so I'm thankful for that, because the boys always had home versus places that we had to move to, right, and like you said, we have some good ones, thankfully. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 44:29 Well, it sounds like you also have translated that, bringing that that Elise has brought to your family, to your boxing family. I mean, I think when cadets are there, they're home away, this is home away from home, right? And maybe not all of them have father figures or leaders in their lives, and it sounds like you kind of taken that mantle, placed it right there.   Col. Mark Clifford 44:47 I tried, I tried. You know, we talked about this before we started, but I'm gonna push them hard. Make sure that they exceed that level of physicality and mentality that they think they can, because they will exceed it and be able to perform when it's time to perform. And I love it.   Col. Naviere Walkewicz 45:07 Well, Mark, this has been amazing — Coach Clifford, I mean. What you're doing at the program, I mean, you started with you, right, embedded in you, and now you're taking it to the next level. What I learned today in your leadership lessons are those things that you've battled with in the ring, you're bringing out in life, whether in uniform, out of uniform, and you're not only sharing it with those that have been directly on your team, but those that may join your team. You know, we just talked about those basic cadets. So, what I really appreciate about you is you're willing to be there in that with them, celebrating their wins and helping them navigate those losses. So, thanks for being an incredible leader, and thanks for being on Long Blue Leadership. Thank you for investing your time, and for joining us here on Long Blue Leadership. I encourage you to share this episode with others who are on their own leadership journey. You can find this and all our conversations wherever you get your podcasts, or at longblueleadership.org. Until next time, I'm Naviere Walkewicz.   KEYWORDS Leadership development, servant leadership, transformational leadership, competitive mindset, resilience, mental toughness, accountability, team culture, coaching and mentoring, leading by example, emotional intelligence, authenticity, character development, warrior ethos, growth mindset, discipline, perseverance, decision-making, ethical leadership, influencing without authority, role modeling, performance under pressure, purpose-driven leadership, mentorship, building trust, developing potential, talent identification, culture change, officer development, military leadership, sports leadership, motivation, intrinsic motivation, ownership, responsibility, humility, continuous improvement, self-reflection, family support, work-life integration, peer influence, values-based leadership, strategic thinking, adaptability, handling failure, bouncing back from setbacks, high standards, excellence, preparation, focus, commitment, dedication.     The Long Blue Line Podcast Network is presented by the U.S. Air Force Academy Association & Foundation      

Sometimes leadership is modeled in small ways — like leaving work at 4 p.m. and meaning it. Not because the job's done — but because you're showing your team that life outside of work matters too. SUMMARY In this Long Blue Leadership podcast, Mark Michalek '99, human capital director for the FBI, shares leadership tips for more resilient teams.   SHARE THIS EPISODE LINKEDIN  |  FACEBOOK   MARK'S TOP LEADERSHIP TAKEAWAYS 1. Transforming trauma into purpose Turning childhood loss and adversity into a lifelong calling in public safety, service and leadership 2. Post-traumatic growth vs. post-traumatic stress Reframing exposure to trauma as a potential catalyst for growth, resilience and deeper empathy in leaders 3. Whole-person leadership Leading people as complete humans — on duty, off duty, past and present — rather than just as job roles 4. Mental fitness as performance, not weakness Positioning counseling, wellness and psychological support as tools to optimize performance, not signs of failure 5. Modeling the behavior you want to see Leaders leaving at 4 p.m. for family, openly seeing counselors and visibly prioritizing health to give others “permission” to do the same 6. Leading in high-consequence environments Staying the “steady hand to land the plane” during crises like mass casualty events, while empowering experts on the ground 7. From doing the work to leading the work Shifting from frontline case work (violent crime agent) to enterprise-level leadership that shapes culture and systems 8. The power of networks and extended family in uniform Leveraging the Long Blue Line and law enforcement community as a lifelong support, mentorship and resilience network 9. Discipline, recovery and sustainable performance Rest, running and intentional unplugging as essential leadership disciplines — not optional extras 10. Long-view leadership and legacy Seeing careers (military, FBI) as chapters, focusing on integrity, service and excellence, and building organizations your kids would proudly join   CHAPTERS 00:00:00 – Welcome & Introduction 00:00:30 – Early Life and Father's Suicide 00:02:00 – Finding an Extended Family in Law Enforcement 00:03:00 – Civil Air Patrol, Flying and the Path to USAFA 00:04:15 – Cadet Years, Setbacks and First Responder Leadership 00:07:25 – Choosing Security Forces and First Leadership in Nuclear Convoys 00:09:45 – From Military to FBI: Mental Fitness and Post-Traumatic Growth 00:15:15 – Balancing Family, Leadership Loneliness and Modeling Self-Care 00:19:15 – Leading Through Crisis: Inside the Boulder Attack Response 00:27:30 – Lessons, Legacy and Advice for Future Leaders   ABOUT MARK BIO Mark Michalek is a senior leader in the Federal Bureau of Investigation, currently serving as human capital director, a role to which he was appointed by Pam Bondi, former U.S. attorney general. In this capacity, Michalek leads enterprise policy and strategy for human resources, security, internal affairs, compliance and training across the Bureau's 38,000-person global workforce. A 1999 graduate of the U.S. Air Force Academy, Michalek previously served as special agent in charge of the FBI's Denver field office, where he oversaw operations throughout Colorado and Wyoming. He is the highest-ranking FBI special agent who is also a military veteran.   CONNECT WITH MARK LINKEDIN   CONNECT WITH THE LONG BLUE LINE PODCAST NETWORK TEAM Ted Robertson | Producer and Editor:  Ted.Robertson@USAFA.org Send your feedback or nominate a guest: socialmedia@usafa.org   Ryan Hall | Director:  Ryan.Hall@USAFA.org  Bryan Grossman | Copy Editor:  Bryan.Grossman@USAFA.org Wyatt Hornsby | Executive Producer:  Wyatt.Hornsby@USAFA.org     ALL PAST LBL EPISODES  |  ALL LBLPN PRODUCTIONS AVAILABLE AT USAFA.ORG/LONGBLUELEADERSHIP AND ON ALL MAJOR PODCAST PLATFORMS FULL TRANSCRIPT SPEAKERS Guest, Mark Machalek '99  |  Host, Lt. Col. (ret.) Naviere Walkewicz '99   Col. Naviere Walkewicz  00:11 Well, Mark, welcome to Long Blue Leadership. This is truly an honor, as your classmate, Class of '99. We go back, gosh, 30 years.   Mark Michalek  0:18 It is so exciting to see you again and to be here at USAFA; to have this conversation is just priceless. So thank you.   Col. Naviere Walkewicz  00:27 Who knew we'd be doing this this many years?   Mark Michalek  00:28 That's right.   Col. Naviere Walkewicz  00:31 Many may not know you've been in security forces as an active-duty officer, you went into the FBI, and you've really been in this public safety kind of realm. But we're going to dive in with, I think, a moment in time that really shaped you, and just in something I learned about you just recently. So you're 5 years old, and you shared with me that your dad actually, he took his life — death by suicide, right? And it shaped you in a way, when you're thinking about your role in public safety. Do you mind kind of sharing that with us?   Mark Michalek  01:00 When I was 5 years old, my dad died by suicide, and I was an only child, and he was my absolute hero. He was a local police officer, so my earliest memories of childhood were wearing his uniform and seeing the squad car and being around officers. And I think that really solidified my future in public safety.   Col. Naviere Walkewicz  01:26 Your hero, something that you were exposed to. Tell me, as a 5-year-old, what did that start to look like? Where did you see that show up in, you know, in school, in your sports, like, just in the way you lived? How did, how did you navigate that?   Mark Michalek  01:40 So quickly I had an extended family. As I went to the playground and were around town, squad cars would show up,and police officers would come by and, you know, give me a pop or come in and check with me and see how I was doing and see how my mom was doing. And that really laid a foundation for me of a sense of an extended family of the police department being more than just a job in the balance of that. That sense of camaraderie and togetherness with the mission, I think, really shaped my childhood. I became very, very active. And I don't know if that was by design or divine intervention, or what, but it was kind of, you know, the object in motion stays in motion. I was on the run, literally on the run. Loved to run long distance. I quickly got into Civil Air Patrol as soon as I was old enough to do so, and got exposed to the Air Force that way. I got my private pilot's license at 17, I soloed before I got my driver's license and was destined to come to the Academy.   Col. Naviere Walkewicz  02:48 Wow. I mean, you were accomplishing so much so quickly. Were you always like that was, did you see others in your life like that? Was your dad that way?   Mark Michalek  02:59 It's interesting in retrospect, to see if that was inherited or that was kind of a response to the trauma. I kind of think it was a response. I'm the only person in my family to have moved outside of Flint, Michigan. So folks were very stable and stayed where they were, but I was just constantly moving. You know. As we're talking, I remember I was the youngest Red Cross CPR instructor for the county at 15. I formed a K-9 search-and-rescue unit for police departments to train dogs to help find missing people. And I guess that was just a response to what had happened, and it really planted a seed in me that life is short, and I've had this drive to just leave it all on the field, to keep moving forward, to do more and more, to be able to, you know, focus on public safety and to protect people.   Col. Naviere Walkewicz  03:54 So you showed up at USAFA. You knew — you went to Civil Air Patrol and USAFA was in your sights. I remember you as a cadet, and you're always a go-getter as well. Let's talk about a little bit your cadet years, and maybe some of where you saw that evolution of yourself as a leader, but also maybe how it showed up through, you know, go-getting and continually pushing that.   Mark Michalek  04:16 My first setback was I wasn't initially accepted. I got a Falcon Foundation scholarship. And it was really a fork-in-the-road decision — “Do you kind of take a year off and go this route and reapply, or do you go another route?” I ended up going, obviously the Falcon Foundation route. Went to Marion Military Institute, and I'm so glad I did, because it set me up to be a cadet and to be in the same class as you. You know, that cadet experience is just such a sensory overload. I wasn't an athlete. I joke that my athletics were just kind of graduating, like I just needed to focus on academics and surviving the day. But then I started to see some kind of opportunities to give back. And I kind of see these themes throughout my life. Myself and two of our classmates formed the cadet first responder team back in '97, I think. And that was really just, again, interest in public safety and a recognition that we needed some more kind of support for cadet-related activities. You know, 24/7 we've got the fire department and EMS here, but to understand the cadet experience and to be able to help out. So my sponsor was a paramedic in Colorado Springs, and a lot of ride time with him.   Col. Naviere Walkewicz  05:37 That kind of worked out really well.   Mark Michalek  05:39 Again, divine intervention. And so we formed this team. We got our EMT certification on nights, and we're able to help out, and, you know, provide practical experience. If you remember that Class of 2001 was absolutely decimated during Recognition. Remember, we had to have a timeout. There was — we had to have a time to say, “Look, like, we got to, you know, we got to rein this in,” and so we were able to provide a lot of support there. But as I progressed in the Academy, you know, public safety, protecting people, continued to resonate with me, and was one of the reasons I chose behavioral science as a as a track, partly…   Col. Naviere Walkewicz  06:19 Not because you didn't love math?   Mark Michalek  06:21 Partly because I probably wouldn't have graduated.   Col. Naviere Walkewicz  06:24 I was right here — social sciences too.   Mark Michalek  06:28 Yeah, you know, you got to go where you're strong, right? But I knew that regardless, we'd be working with people. And then to tie it back to my dad to understand why somebody with a family would take their own life was still something that I was struggling with, and so that really led me to a psychology track. But this drumbeat of public safety really continued to resonate with me, and it's really the main reason that I chose security forces as a career field. I mean, I was medically qualified to fly. Already had a private pilot's license.   Col. Naviere Walkewicz  06:59 Right. That was actually what I was gonna ask you, because you had that.   Mark Michalek  07:03 Partly because although I have my license, I get horrifically air sick, which is a weird dynamic.   Col. Naviere Walkewicz  07:11 And yet you kept pushing yourself. Amazing.   Mark Michalek  07:12 Yeah. So if I'm flying, I don't get sick, but if I'm a passenger, then I get sick. So I didn't want that as a career choice for me, but I wanted to lead people where they were. I wanted to lead on the ground in the public safety space, and so that's why I chose security forces.   Col. Naviere Walkewicz  07:28 So let's talk about that a little bit. You know, as a security forces officer, you saw many things. I'm certain of it. But was there a moment when you actually had a leadership kind of moment for yourself that you grew — different from when you're a cadet — but in the moment leading some security forces, men and women, was there a moment that you grew that way?   Mark Michalek  07:49 Yeah, I think right out of the gate, because as soon as you're a second lieutenant in security forces, you are leading airmen. So my first assignment was at F.E. Warren as a nuclear weapon convoy commander — a team of 40 airmen. So there's no diffusion responsibility, there's nowhere to hide. Like, you are it. And that was the first practical application of leadership for me. Theoretically, and you know, within the Cadet Wing, you're kind of in this microcosm to test some things out and develop who you're going to be as a leader. But once you hit the ground, like, that is it. And to be able to motivate, inspire a team of people in a mission to protect nuclear weapons when there hasn't been a direct attack in our history is difficult, but now I look back as a 23-year-old lieutenant running a nuclear weapon convoy with the world's most important weapon on the open highways is an incredible responsibility. But that's really, I think, where the rubber meets the road, where you start to see what leadership looks like for you. It's not the same for everybody, right? You take bits and pieces of people and in theories and apply really what the moment requires. And in security forces, you really start to see the value of the senior noncommissioned officers, and although you have the authority, they have the reputation and the ability to deliver and so it's more art than science. And so I learned that very quick, right out of the gate.   Col. Naviere Walkewicz  09:12 That makes a lot of sense. And something that you said, I think, is really important. You know that that human piece of it, when I think about the pace in which security forces and a lot of our law enforcement roles live in. My question for you might be, how did you help those handle kind of challenging moments or stress, right? You kind of go towards, “Give me more,” take on more, stay busy. Not everyone is wired the same. So did you have airmen that struggled in how they dealt with, you know, things, trauma, etc., and how did you coach or lead them through that?   Mark Michalek  09:45 Back then, there really wasn't a lot of support. There really wasn't a recognition. There was still a stigma, both in the military and law enforcement, of “I can't disclose that I'm having a problem. You're going to take my secure clearance, you know, you're going to take my weapon, I'm going to lose my job, I'm going to be embarrassed.” And so at that time, there really wasn't a safety net or an openness to discuss it, so you kind of just dealt with it. So it was more of telegraphing as a leader of what your values were, in hopes that people would kind of, you know, reach out if they needed help. In my time in the FBI, I was able to influence decisions and policies, to be able to be more accommodating, to kind of focus on the whole person and look at our individual followers as a function of performance, as opposed to, you know, you're my responsibility when you're in uniform from 9 to 5 and then you're off duty. You know, life is not my concern as a leader.   Col. Naviere Walkewicz  10:47 You know there are times when you're leading folks and you might have the authority to do some things. Did you start to implement some of those programs or support resources, etc., as an agent, or when you were at a higher-level authority?   Mark Michalek  11:00 In FBI, it was at a higher level. So, you know, one of the reasons I left the Air Force after six years, it was a tough decision. And it wasn't running away from something, it was running towards something. And I recognized, you know, when we were company-grade officers, the trajectory is kind of baked in. You will continue to promote, but you will lead people. I wanted to do the work. I didn't want to just lead the people doing the work. I wanted to do the work for myself, and that was one of the reasons I joined the FBI. But going through as a case agent for 13 years on a violent crime squad and being exposed to some of the different things that my dad was exposed to, that others were exposed to, it really laid a foundation as I pursued leadership to be able to have greater influence as I moved up the organization, to set that culture towards mental fitness and resilience and really as a function of optimizing performance.   Naviere Walkewicz  11:55 Can you talk about that a little bit more? Tell me what you mean by mental fitness and resilience.   Mark Michalek  12:00 So, you know, law enforcement and military both, over the past 20 years, have made significant progress in kind of chipping away at that stigma. We're not where we need to be yet, but we're making really, really good progress. I equate our work to that of an Olympic athlete. It's not just running the race. Olympic athletes are obsessed with their craft, whether it is nutrition, sleep, mental imagery, you know, different types of runs to test different types of muscles and stamina and endurance, but they look at the whole person. So too should we in law enforcement and in the military. So as I got into leadership positions, you kind of block and tackle for your people and let them run, and you set the trajectory of your unit, your squad, your team, your division, your organization, on how they move forward. And so I really push that whole-person concept, that you are a whole person, not just your 9-to-5, but your off duty, your on duty, your past, your present, and all of that needs to be optimized for you to perform the mission. I was very fortunate at our entry level senior executive service position to be at our headquarters and be responsible for — it's called our employee health and performance section, but the clinical staff at the FBI, the psychologists, psychiatrists, doctors, nurses, social workers, to be able to drive that culture and to move from post-traumatic stress to post-traumatic growth. And I needed to experience that as an agent. I needed to be on mass casualty scenes. I needed to be engaged with victims of crime to understand what that looked like, what that felt like, to project what my dad had experienced, but to recognize as humans, we are not wired to see what we are requiring our people to see and do time and time again, and we just require them to go out, to go out, to go out — instead, to provide mental health counseling, which in the FBI, we do, not only for the employee, but for their spouse, which I think is very important, and kids, for that matter, to be able to recognize that, yeah, like, you're not super human. It's OK to not be OK. You're not going to lose your clearance and your gun. People that lose their clearance do so because they compensate in maladaptive ways, whether that's drugs or alcohol or anything like that. And so that's been rewarding to drive that culture, to push the creation of employee assistance, counselors, these are mental health practitioners, chaplains, peers, just to be able to let that culture permeate, and to be able to demonstrate from the top, I'm very open about my dad and how that has shaped my life, to be able to telegraph that, you know, post-traumatic growth is possible, and there are a variety of resources out there now. And there's science and research, and there's just a recognition that the way that we are wired, you can't just keep going 100 miles an hour. You've got to go back to being that Olympic athlete and have a rest in a work and schedule and to be able to push yourself and to relax and just think holistically.   Col. Naviere Walkewicz  15:16 The term itself post-traumatic growth is one that I'm not familiar with. But when you explain it that way, it's very clear. And my question to you might be, how have you for yourself, personally — you know, you're a husband, you're a father, you know, you have seen things, and then you go home and while you do have counseling for family members and for yourselves as well, what does that look like, this post-traumatic growth, when you go home personally.   Mark Michalek  15:45 You know, it's really tough to practice what you preach. We're really good about setting a vision for an organization as leaders and taking care of other people, but not taking care of ourselves. And what really flipped the switch for me was reframing the perspective on telegraphing for others to create the permission structure that it's OK, and when they see you do that, then they know it's OK. So for example, in FBI culture, same for the military, like if the boss is in the office, you've got to stay there, or you've got to be there till 5 o'clock. That's fine if you have work to do, but what sense does it make to sit there just because you know your boss is there? So one of the things that I did as I approached senior leadership was I left every day at 4 o'clock, and I made sure they saw me leave. And it's not — I'm going out to go play golf or whatever, but I am going back to be with my family. And in all the assignments I've had — I've moved several times in the FBI — I've made it a point to be home for dinner, and that is the stability for the family, for my girls, for me, and we'll have our dinner and put the kids to bed, and I'll get back and do more work, but being able to telegraph that, you know — I was the special agent in charge of our Denver field office — and as you move into the senior ranks, it's an incredibly lonely job. When you are at the top, there's no way you can talk to you can't gripe to people below you, you know, you've got to have a strong peer network, and you've got to put on the oxygen mask first to be able to help others, and that takes consistent kind of messaging. It takes some consistent actions to be able to show we're putting our money where our mouth is, and then engaging with employee assistance counselors. I talked regularly with ours, and I wanted people to see that, yeah, it's confidential, and there's no shame in that. You would have no problem putting on your squad calendar that you're going to a dentist appointment at 10 o'clock tomorrow. We want to get to a point where that's all “I'm going to go talk to the counselor.”   Col. Naviere Walkewicz  17:49 Have you seen the benefits of that, since the agency has made some of these changes?   Mark Michalek  17:55 I have, you know, over the past 20 years, the scale, speed and scope of critical incidents is just unimaginable. It's now commonplace for mass shootings. You know, when we were here at the Air Force Academy — Columbine —   Col. Naviere Walkewicz  17:49 I was just thinking that when you brought that up.   Mark Michalek  17:55   And now it's almost every single week. The FBI is very similar to the military in that we are mission focused. You know, our job is to protect the American people and uphold the Constitution and the threat spectrum has exponentially changed. We have to deliver again. There is nowhere to hide. There's no diffusion of responsibility. When I was the special agent in charge for the Denver field office, we were the FBI for Colorado and Wyoming, and whatever happened, we had to deliver. And so we're not afforded the luxury to not respond. And it takes principled decision making in the development of culture to practice and plan and prepare and create that permission structure, because you know what's going to happen, and when it happens, it hits hard, and we've got to deliver. We have to be mission focused and get the job done, but we have to take care of ourselves on the back end, and that takes purposeful decision making by leaders to carve out that time and say, “Nope, we're going to take a timeout.”   Col. Naviere Walkewicz  19:19 Well, let's talk a little bit about that actual example, but let's talk about the Boulder attack. And you know, what was your role and approach as the leader, you know, in that lonely role as a leader, but to really kind of navigate that. Can you talk about that with us?   Mark Michalek  19:37 Unfortunately, the Denver Field Office has had their fair share of critical instances to respond to. So we've got our reps in over the course of time, but that performance just doesn't happen overnight. It takes a lot of work in policy development, in exercises, in pressure testing assumptions to be able to deliver when the moment requires it. The Boulder attack happened on June 1, on a Sunday. And so many things happen at one time. You know, our society has changed where, you know, it's a 24/7, news cycle, and things are happening in real time. You no longer have the built-in delays, because you've got to get to a phone to make a call, and so this is happening, unfolding in front of you in real time, and there's so many things you're responsible for as the leader. I think when it comes to times of crisis, people want stability. They want reassurances. They want a steady hand to land the plane. And that's what my focus was on, that although I have the same emotions, anxiety, stress that is happening, we need to be the steady hand to land the plane. We focused the culture in Denver on direct community impact and supporting partners. I think there's a misperception with the FBI that we have to be the lead. And you know, when the feds come in, they take it over, and, you know, here we go. But that's not the case. We can prop up local law enforcement and to provide the forensic, technical, analytic, tactical, behavioral expertise that they may not have or may be overwhelmed due to the size of the incident. And thankfully, we have a strong relationship with the Boulder Police Department. And so the chief called me personally as he was, I could hear the siren in the background as he was rolling to the scene. So we have plans in place, just like the military when there's a crisis and you send that flare up, and you execute the crisis-management plan, and you work in real time. Everything's moving at 100 miles an hour. Being the leader in that situation, you are getting torn in multiple directions. So you have your employees responding to the scene. You have local law enforcement. You have elected leaders here in Colorado, they want to know what's happening. You have elected leaders in D.C. that want to know what's happening to the point where my phone broke. So many phone calls at once, like, it was fried. And so again, like focusing on — I've got to be the steady drumbeat. I've got to be measured here, to telegraph that we've got this, but also a trust and confidence that your people do have it and to get out of the way. They're the experts. I'll block and tackle for them and let them run, and I telegraphed that in our culture, and let them run, and they did phenomenal. And I focused on what my responsibility was on, was not on being at the scene and seeing what's going on in that, it was engaging with executive leaders to be able to understand what we have, what resources we need, and to be able to deliver now at that time. Given the context of what was happening overseas, we knew this would be an international — of international interest immediately, so it could either go very well and controlled, or it could be absolutely horrible. And so that's another layer of pressure. And when you go back to the fundamentals at the Air Force Academy, of when it matters most, that you buckle your chinstrap on the helmet, and you just get to it, and you immediately go into that mode and distance your emotions and thoughts and anxieties, and put those to the side and focus on the mission at hand. And we knew when we were giving statements in the press that it would be carried internationally, so a different layer of stress as a leader. You know, we had simultaneous operations. We had the scene — the subject had a makeshift flamethrower and threw Molotov cocktails. There was about 15 victims at the time that were transported. Luckily, he was arrested by a Boulder police officer on the scene. But we also had activity in Colorado Springs, where his house was. So generate search warrants and everything for that, and then a mobile command post to assist Boulder PD. But nowadays, you know, we're running leads all over the world, because what we don't know at the macro level is, is this a distraction? Is there another attack happening? Is this part of a pattern that we've got to figure out in very short order?   Col. Naviere Walkewicz  24:20 I'm curious, because I remember the reason why you left active duty, or you transitioned from active duty to the FBI, because you wanted to be in the things doing, the things you find yourself now in, positions where you're leading. How have you grown as a leader yourself? What have you learned about yourself in this? Not being able to be the one doing, but like you said, blocking and tackling? Like, how have you grown yourself?   Mark Michalek  24:42 So I was a violent crime agent when I first graduated from Quantico, and I did that for about 12 years, and it was all about impact for me. So I worked bank robbery and armored car robbery scenes. And I remember this. I remember these scenes as we're talking, but I — you go to a chaotic scene like that, with yellow tape and local law enforcement there, and people crying and physical evidence and blood on the ground, and people are looking for somebody to take control. And I remember walking out of my car with that gun and badge on my hip, and you could feel it. “Here comes the FBI.” OK, they've got this and to be able to turn order into chaos, or chaos into order, and create, you know, develop evidence, make a case, prosecute it, provide that sense of closure for victims. That was the juice for me, in that direct community impact. But then I started to feel the calling of leadership from the military, and I started to see that as you move up the ranks, you're able to make more and more impact with a greater group of people. And that became the juice for me. And so in the FBI, it's not as linear as the military, where you, you know, you just move up here, you can kind of go up and down or sideways. But that really motivated me to be able to give back that public safety kind of motivation in larger and larger groups of people. And often when it comes to leadership, whether you're in the military or the FBI, there's kind of this imposter syndrome of like, “Do I really have this?” But you look back and say, “Look at all the things I've been doing, look at all the experiences I've had, all the different places I've led all over the world, and it's turned out just fine. I've got this.” And to move up and up the ranks and to make decisions and lead larger and larger groups of people and learn from those decisions — that was my spark. And then at that point, I just continued down the pipeline. I'm at a point now where I'm operating and leading at the enterprise level, which is impactful, stressful, humbling and rewarding, but that special agent in charge position, that was the ideal position, because you're directly connected with the people. We've got about 500 employees between the two states, and are ingrained in the community to be able just to help more and more people.   Col. Naviere Walkewicz  27:09 So you're driven a bit by adrenaline. We've talked about this. I'm curious what's next? I mean, you're at the enterprise level. Do you stay here? How do you continue to fill your sense of impact that your leading or making a difference for when you've kind of continued to really, you know, rise in that way?   Mark Michalek  27:29 At the enterprise level, it's a different perspective of leadership — you're obviously leading through several layers of leaders. So you know what you know with the company grade or the supervisory special agent level, you kind of keep the train on the tracks and keep the trains running on time. The enterprise perspective, then you're laying down enough track for that train to keep moving forward. And so it takes a little bit of a shift. I'm enjoying my time right now. It's really impactful to see the subtle things. Change culture, people reaching out when they need help, direct community impact. Where you weren't directly involved in that, but you laid a foundation for that to grow. You know, that said, like, there's only one FBI director, so there's really no other opportunities. It's just continuing to give back at this level, but whether it's military or FBI, it's, you know, the similarities are leading in high-consequence environments where the stakes are high and the margin for error is small, and I think there's opportunities for that to continue to lead in those environments outside of government as well.   Col. Naviere Walkewicz  28:50 So I think about some of the things you shared about, you know, why you've made certain decisions and leading through different levels. I'm curious about how leadership has shown up in your house as a dad and as a husband, thinking about what you experience with your dad, how do you navigate that in your home life?   Mark Michalek  29:09 You know, it's interesting as you grow older and you gain experience and maturity and in a world view, and you really start to see the forest through the trees, and leadership manifests in different ways, but as you get married and have kids, then you start to appreciate what your employees are experiencing, stresses and joys as well. It forces you to be disciplined and to focus on what your priorities are. And it's tough when you're in a high-consequence environment to say, “Yep, families first — can't do that.” Well, there's a mass shooting, like, you're going to have to go. So there has to be a little bit of flexibility. But all things equal, focusing on the family is really the sunlight, you know that helps us grow, and it shifts your mind towards giving back. Like, in preparing the future generations, which just happened in the blink of an eye for us— as I'm driving in, we go past the buff where we were commissioned. I'm like, my god, 27 years have passed. So now the focus shifts on providing for the family and thinking, “What kind of world do I want my girls to live in?” And it equates to the FBI, because I want the FBI to be an organization that agents and analysts and professional support staff folks not only serve for 20 years, but that my daughters want to join, and they want to do 20 years. So a pendulum shift more towards not just delivering results for today, but continuing to grow on what the future looks like.   Col. Naviere Walkewicz  30:43 Pulling that a little bit further, what do you hope that your girls see in you as a leader? You know, the way that your dad was your hero and you looked up to him? What do you what are you hoping your girls see in you the traits?   Mark Michalek  30:56 You know, it's funny. They're 9 now, so I think they could care less.   Col. Naviere Walkewicz  31:01 Maybe what they don't want to see you doing.   Mark Michalek  31:02 I'm just kidding. But, you know, in the future, I want them to be able to see the value of integrity, of service and of excellence, in this recognition that life is so precious and short, and I want them to leave it all on the field. And you know when their day comes to be able to say, “You know what I did, I lived a full life. I was supported, loved…” You know, whatever it is they want to get into, it doesn't have to be law enforcement or anything like — I just want them to excel and enjoy themselves, but just recognize how phenomenal life is and how short it is, and you just got to find your spark and just go for it.   Col. Naviere Walkewicz  31:50 That's amazing. And I think about your comment earlier about we're really good at helping others know what they should be doing, but maybe not the best at taking our own advice. How are you doing that and taking care of yourself today?   Mark Michalek  32:01 So for me, it's running. Everybody's got something that they need to unplug, decompress from my time, from high school through the Academy, military and now it's running. It gets a little slower as we get older.   Col. Naviere Walkewicz  32:17 Note to self, do not plan to go running with Mark. Got it.   Mark Michalek  32:21 But it just — everybody needs time to unplug and take off all the masks. FBI agent, Air Force member, husband, parent, friend. You just need to take the mask off and you just need to breathe. And that's what does it for me, being outside and breathing. And one of my assignments was in our San Diego field office, which was spectacular. But being in water was another area that I really found energized me and, you know, and made me whole. But, yeah, running is what does it now. And I make it a point that no matter how busy I am, I've got to run at least once a week.   Col. Naviere Walkewicz  33:05 OK, what's your distance that you're running to give yourself this time to unplug in?   Mark Michalek  33:09 Now, not fast. Now, this isn't a sprint; it's more of a marathon, but I haven't done any marathons. That's a little too much for me. I'm in the in the 5- to 8-mile range. That seems to be the sweet spot. And then here in Colorado, it's being out in nature, but in D.C., to be able to run the monuments every single time — and I've done it hundreds of times — but every time you go past those monuments, and you put your hand on the Washington Monument, or you go up to the Lincoln Memorial, and you stand where Dr. Martin Luther King stood and you see that perspective, I just get this sense of history and appreciate the decisions that were made and the consequential events that happened over time in the stability of institutions, in that you know leaders way above us stood the test of time, were resilient and were able to navigate unthinkable challenges, then so too should we, and I find a sense of, I guess, comfort or shared experience, although that's a whole different level for those level of leaders, but that really helps fuel me.   Col. Naviere Walkewicz  34:17 I can actually see that. Just picture you doing that. You know, I want to ask you, what is something you're doing every day to be better at “fill in the blank,” your leadership, your craft? What's something you're doing every day?   Mark Michalek  34:32 I think it's being disciplined and focused, definitely running and being physical, but balancing the time with family and friends in work, it sometimes — it comes across as selfish. I think particularly people who are service oriented consider that selfish. But again, like they say, when you're on the plane, you've got to put on your oxygen mask first before you can help others. So that's not selfish. You're telegraphing to others to take care of themselves. When I run, I listen to presidential biographies.   Col. Naviere Walkewicz  35:05 Really, I was going to ask you, what's in your ear? Now — I'm just kidding.   Mark Michalek  35:09 I don't know if it's the cadence of the — but again, to understand decisions from the past, and when you know our country was at pivotal points, how we responded, that helps fulfill me. I think, you know, becoming a student of leadership, from being a cadet to now, and finding different ways and understanding whether it's private sector, other public sector entities, how they navigate things, because it's very, very similar when it comes to, you know, motivating people, managing programs, delivering results, you know, grappling with emerging tech, new different types of threats. So I do a lot of reading in that space, to be able to be a more kind of holistic leader and not have on horse blinders, just specific to government.   Col. Naviere Walkewicz  36:00 Has there been one lately that's really stuck with you, or that you've listened to while you're running, or that you read that has continued to evolve the way you're thinking — you approach leadership?   Mark Michalek  36:11 I think it's — John Dickerson has a book called The Hardest Job in the World, and it's about the presidency, and it's not one individual president, it across party lines and in decades. But it's more of those themes that when you think back, they didn't have the technology we did. But like these fundamental themes are the same of, how do you motivate people? How do you respond to the operating environment? How do you handle complex challenges? Again, like I just felt a sense of reassurance or support and understanding on things, you know, through the course of time that we may not have all the answers, but collectively, people are the potential energy of the organizations, and they're going to deliver. They're going to hit it out of the park. You just have to support them.   Col. Naviere Walkewicz  36:58 Well, we have viewers and listeners that kind of span from, you know, young cadet hopefuls, cadets, you know, graduates and family members. What's something that, if you could tell yourself years ago, maybe as a cadet, that you should say you should be thinking about this now, because in 27 years from now, it's gonna matter? What would you share?   Mark Michalek  37:18 You know, I think, first of all, I wish I would have had more fun.   Col. Naviere Walkewicz  37:25 I think I've seen you smile more now.   Mark Michalek  37:28 I mean, it's just such a pressure cooker, and you don't want to let anybody down, and you don't know what the future holds. And, you know, “I've got to do this, I gotta do that. I gotta…” It's just breathe a little bit and enjoy it. Like, you don't recognize you're really in a pivotal point in your life. So that, I think that's one thing. I think the other for cadets and prospective cadets to recognize is, like, the FBI, like, the military is temporary. You're going to retire, probably young. You know, you do 20 years in the way our systems are set up, in the way the world is now. Rarely are you just going to go fishing at age 40 or 50. You know, you may have a second act, you may have a third act, and so you've got to really have the long view in mind, and it's OK not to have all the answers. You know, life will throw you some curve balls here and there. You've got to do what fulfills you at the time and doors will open. But you just got to have that faith that things are going to work out.   Col. Naviere Walkewicz  38:35 Did you have that, you think, back then, or you, just looking back on it now, recognize that?   Mark Michalek  38:41 I don't know. I think partially I had it then. Those Academy years are really, really tough. And like, we were chatting before, like, well, you know, once you leave, that was it. I had no intention of coming back. And it's kind of like a boomerang. Distance and time makes the heart grow fonder, and then you recognize, you know, what you've learned here and how special this place was. And I think back, I think staying busy and active is what got me through. There's nothing worse than that first holiday break in December, right when you go back to your friends and they're at local schools, and you see all the stuff they're doing, and then you've got to come back. I mean, that is such a — the comeback piece. Do you have the, you know, intestinal fortitude to come back? You know, that was really, really tough, but now I see that the Academy, you know, left an indelible mark on me and changed the trajectory of my life. And I think back, you know, like I said, I'm the only person in my family to have ever left Michigan, and what life would have been, you know… You think the Earth is flat until get out and see there's a whole big world out there and a ton of opportunities. And as I've gotten in this role, particularly as a special agent in charge in Denver, I interact more with military leaders here in Colorado and Wyoming, and start to reconnect with people and see that this Long Blue Line, it spans everything. We are everywhere across the world. But you have no idea what good stuff lies ahead if you just stay the course, and your life will be changed in fundamentally spectacular ways.   Col. Naviere Walkewicz  40:29 You couldn't end it better than that. I guess I want to just ask you this final question. Is there anything we didn't talk about today that you would like to make sure you make mention of?   Mark Michalek  40:34 No, but let me give one piece of advice for future cadets and cadets. And this — I think I read this in a book before I came but this is what helped me survive. Go to bed every night at 10 o'clock. You know, there's folks that try to do the all-nighters. I didn't. Every night, I went to bed at 10 o'clock and dealt with the consequences on the back end. And I think that ability to recharge and rest served me well.   Col. Naviere Walkewicz  41:00 Do you still go to bed at 10 o'clock now?   Mark Michalek  41:02 I try. Now it's more like 9 or 8:30 as I've gotten older, but I think you've got to recharge and sleep. And that's one of the things the Academy teaches you, is you are not going to get everything done. You're not going to muscle your way through this. You can try. You're going to end up tired. But this is a team sport. Life is a team sport. You've got to do the best you can and get up and do it again the next day. But you are not you're just not going to get it all done. So you got to take care of yourself.   Col. Naviere Walkewicz  41:30 Well, that really does kind of bring it home. Does that this time that you've been kind of experiencing in your life through the active-duty service, through the FBI, you know, you said it yourself, you kind of look back at, you know, maybe why your dad made some decisions. Do you feel like you've gotten to a point where you've had closure now?   Mark Michalek  41:49 Yes and no. I think I've gotten to a point where I've got all the answers I can but I'm at peace with what had happened. And I just, I try to, you know, leverage the time I have with my wife and girls to be present and to be a good role model and just to be able to support them and help them thrive.   Col. Naviere Walkewicz  42:12 Well, I think you've been an incredible role model. You've been an incredible friend through all these years. This conversation has been one that's been really rooted and just understanding who you are, where you're at, and then how to navigate from that place. And I think that's why you've been one of the reasons why you've been just so successful, and why you're able to lead so many people through so many different crises. So I thank you for being on Long Blue Leadership. This has been a true treat for me, but again, I know that all of our listeners and our viewers have enjoyed this as well.   Mark Michalek  42:39 Oh, thank you, Naviere, I really appreciate the opportunity.   Col. Naviere Walkewicz  42:43 As I think back on our conversation today, you know, there are several things that stand out. I think one thread that we really need to think about is taking care of ourselves and others, knowing where we're at, thinking about mental resilience and really post traumatic growth, being able to move forward and seek help when you need it. I think part of our conversation today as leaders is not everything is easy, and certainly you have a network that supports you, and so one of the ways that my classmate Mark has really highlighted to me is lean into your network, you know, utilize the resources that are there for you, and then you can not only help yourself, but you can help others as well. So it's been an incredible conversation, one that I look forward to listening to again and sharing with others as well.   KEYWORDS Public safety leadership, law enforcement leadership, military leadership, FBI leadership, crisis leadership, trauma-informed leadership, mental resilience, post-traumatic growth, whole-person leadership, high-consequence environments, leading under pressure, servant leadership, organizational culture change, resilience culture, mental fitness for first responders, leader self-care, work-life balance for leaders, empowering frontline teams, interagency collaboration, leadership in crisis response.     The Long Blue Line Podcast Network is presented by the U.S. Air Force Academy Association & Foundation    

Col Jim “p-nut” Carter grew up an AF brat moving around the country till his dad got assigned to Kenai, Alaska for Jim's HS years. After initially being turned down by USAFA he was able to score a slot at the Prep school and entered USAFA in summer 72. While a cadet he played for, and eventually captained, the AFA Rugby team. Upon graduation Jim became a pilot and occasionally got introduced first at events due to his new nickname of Jimmy which evolved to p-nut. A-10 and OV-10 assignments followed till he landed an F-16 slot. He shares stories of a translant in OV -10's and how the F-16 differed from the A-10. Staff and advisor roles came next till he got another flying job at Eielson (Fairbanks) followed by an Inspector General job in Hawaii. Upon retirement Jim became a Beltway bandit, his words, and is now fully retired in VA. He has a great message about the long blue line.

Major General Jim “beak” Hunt grew up in So Cal and went to USAFA to avoid a certain academic topic he covers. Turned out to be one of the many assignments he tried to avoid throughout his career but eventually came to enjoy and overcome. Most notably BEAK is likely the first USAF general officer to command a US ARMY Corps in combat. This was at the end of his long flying career in the USAF where he flew F-4, F-15, F-117, and the memorable U-2. Post USAF activities include training flight surgeons by flying them, consulting for joint operations outfits, and running his local airport.

Jeff welcomes back Ron Hardman and Kilroys Workshop to Crosswalk Colorado Springs. There is a national movement toward training in the trades. Kilroy’s Workshop is leading the way! And you want to hear about them making the sabers for USAFA graduates - “made in COS” rather than “made in China”See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

From combat missions in the F-22 Raptor to more than five months aboard the International Space Station, Lt. Col. Nichole “Vapor” Ayers '11 has seen it all. SUMMARY In this episode of Long Blue Leadership, Col. Ayers reflects on mentorship, teamwork and building the next generation of warriors and astronauts.   SHARE THIS EPISODE LINKEDIN  |  FACEBOOK     TOP 10 TAKEAWAYS 1. Leadership is fluid: sometimes you lead, sometimes you follow. On Dragon and the ISS, command shifted between Anne McClain and Takuya Onishi. Everyone alternated between being commander and flight engineer, showing that strong teams normalize moving between leading and supporting roles. 2. Team care starts with self‑care. Vapor repeatedly links sleep, rest, hydration, and health to leadership performance. You can't be present for others if you're exhausted or burned out; taking care of yourself is a leadership duty, not a luxury. 3. People first, mission second (to enable mission success). Whether on deployment with 300 personnel or in space with 7, she focuses on taking care of the human—family issues, logistics, burnout, and emotions—trusting that performance and mission execution follow from that. 4. Trust is built long before the crisis. ISS emergency training with all seven crew, plus years of joint training in multiple countries, builds shared understanding and trust. When emergencies happen, the crew isn't figuring each other out for the first time. 5. Quiet, thoughtful leadership can be incredibly powerful. Takuya Onishi's style—observant, calm, speaks only when it matters, and brings thoughtful items for others—shows that you don't need to be loud to command respect. When he spoke, everyone listened. 6. Leadership means being fully present, especially on others' hard days. In both combat and space, you can't “hide” when someone's struggling. Being reachable, attentive, and emotionally available is a core leadership behavior, not a soft add‑on. 7. Normalize mistakes and share lessons learned. From F‑22 sorties to NASA operations, it's expected that you openly admit errors and pass on lessons so others don't repeat them. A culture where “experience is what you get right after you need it” only works if people share that experience. 8. Plan for “seasons” of intensity, not permanent balance. She frames life as seasons: some are sprints (deployments, intense training, big trips); others are for recovery. Wise leaders anticipate these cycles, push hard when needed, then deliberately create room to reset afterward. 9. Model the behavior you want your team to adopt. If the commander is always first in, last out, everyone else feels pressure to match that. By visibly protecting her own rest and home life, she gives permission for others to do the same and avoid burnout. 10. Lean on—and be—a support system. Her twin sister, long‑term friends, and professional peers form a lifelong support network she turns to when she fails, doubts herself, or hits something “insurmountable.” Great leaders both rely on and serve as those trusted people for others.     CHAPTERS 0:00:00 – Introduction & Vapor's Journey (Academy, F‑22, NASA) 0:00:38 – Launch Scrub, Second Attempt & What a Rocket Launch Feels Like 0:03:33 – First Moments in Space, Floating & Seeing Earth (Overview Effect) 0:06:11 – Leadership & Teamwork in Space: Roles, Trust, and Small-Crew Dynamics 0:10:19 – Multinational Crews & Leadership Lessons from Other Cultures 0:14:47 – No‑Notice F‑22 Deployment & Leading a Squadron in Combat 0:18:14 – Managing Burnout: Scheduling, Human Factors & “Crew‑10 Can Do Hard Things” 0:19:46 – Self‑Care as Team Care: Seasons of Life, Rest, and Being Present 0:26:02 – Family, Being an Aunt, and Balancing a Demanding Career 0:28:14 – Life After Space: Mentoring New Astronauts & Evolving as a Leader     ABOUT NICHOLE BIO U.S. Air Force Lt. Col. Nichole "Vapor" Ayers is a trailblazing pilot, leader and astronaut whose journey began at the United States Air Force Academy, where she graduated in 2011 with a degree in mathematics. An accomplished F-22 Raptor pilot, Ayers is one of the few women ever to fly the world's most advanced stealth fighter — and she's one of even fewer to command them in formation for combat training missions. Col. Ayers earned her wings through years of training and operational excellence, logging over 200 flight hours in combat and playing a critical role in advancing tactical aviation. Her exceptional performance led to her selection in 2021 by NASA as a member of Astronaut Group 23, an elite class of 10 chosen from among 12,000 applicants. As a NASA astronaut candidate, Col. Ayers completed intensive training at Johnson Space Center, which included spacewalk preparation, robotics, survival training, systems operations and Russian language. Now qualified for spaceflight, she stands on the threshold of a new chapter that led her to the International Space Station. Throughout her career, Col. Ayers has exemplified the Academy's core values of Integrity First, Service Before Self and Excellence in All We Do. Her journey from cadet to combat aviator to astronaut is a testament to resilience, determination and a passion for pushing boundaries.   LEARN MORE ABOUT NICHOLE NASA Astronaut Nichole Ayers   CONNECT WITH THE LONG BLUE LINE PODCAST NETWORK TEAM Ted Robertson | Producer and Editor:  Ted.Robertson@USAFA.org Send your feedback or nominate a guest: socialmedia@usafa.org   Ryan Hall | Director:  Ryan.Hall@USAFA.org  Bryan Grossman | Copy Editor:  Bryan.Grossman@USAFA.org Wyatt Hornsby | Executive Producer:  Wyatt.Hornsby@USAFA.org     ALL PAST LBL EPISODES  |  ALL LBLPN PRODUCTIONS AVAILABLE ON ALL MAJOR PODCAST PLATFORMS     FULL TRANSCRIPT SPEAKERS Host: Lt. Col. (Ret.) Naviere Walkewicz '99 Guest: Lt. Col. Nichole "Vapor" Ayers '11   Col. Naviere Walkewicz 0:00 Vapor, welcome to Long Blue Leadership. We are so thrilled you're here. Col. Nichole “Vapor” Ayers 0:11 Thank you. Thanks for having me. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 0:12 Absolutely. So the cadets get to spend some time with you at NCLS. Here the Long Blue Line is going to get to hear from you. And you know, we can actually go through the list. You know, F-22 pilot, USAFA 2011 graduate, you've been in combat, you're a NASA pilot. The list is probably shorter what you haven't done. But, frankly, I'm just excited that you're here on Earth with us, because the last time we spoke, you called me from outer space. Col. Nichole “Vapor” Ayers 0:35 Yeah, that was a lot of fun. That was a lot of chat with you then too. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 0:38 So let's just jump right in. So if we can just kind of catapult you, and let's do it in the way that they that NASA does, into space, maybe starting with the countdown, and then the Gs you take, what is that experience like? And maybe, what are some things you were thinking about in those moments? Col. Nichole “Vapor” Ayers 0:53 Oh, yeah. So, you know, we launched on March 14. First attempt was March 12, and we actually scrubbed the first launch. So we got all the way down to T minus 42 minutes right before we armed the launch escape system. So that's kind of a big milestone on the countdown. We were having issues with some hydraulics in the clamp that actually holds on to the rocket wall and then let's go. We weren't quite sure whether it was gonna let go, so they scrubbed the launch then, and it was a fascinating — you don't feel like you've got a ton of adrenaline going, but, you know, you feel kind of like you're in a sim. We do some really phenomenal training. And so when you're sitting on top of the rocket, it feels like you're in a simulator, except it's breathing and living, and the valves are moving, and you can hear the propellant being loaded and all of that. And so there's a very real portion to launch date. But then, coming down off of that adrenaline, we got a day off, thankfully. We could just kind of rest and relax and then go again. So everything went smoother the second try. Of course, you know, everybody's nerves are a little less, and everything was — it just felt calmer the whole way out. But, yeah, when that countdown hits zero, I like to say you're being slingshotted off the Earth. That's how it felt. You know, in that moment, you're going. There's over a million pounds of thrust, and it's going. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 2:10 I mean, that sounds like a lot. I can't really fathom in my mind what that feels like. Can you describe it? Col. Nichole “Vapor” Ayers 2:17 You know, so I talked about in an F-22 and an afterburner takeoff, which is the most thrust that we have basically in any airplane on Earth. You know, you get set back in your seat really far. And, if you think of an airliner takeoff, you kind of get set back in your seat a little bit. Multiply that by, like, 10 or 20, and then that happened for nine minutes straight on a rocket. You're just being forcefully set back in your seat for nine minutes straight and just thrown off of the Earth, and in nine minutes, you're in orbit. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 2:49 So when you had your practice, did you experience that level for that long as well? Col. Nichole “Vapor” Ayers 2:54 For the simulators? So they can't that. We can't necessarily simulate the Gs in the sim. So that's like the one part that, you know, we go through the whole launch, but you're sitting at one G the whole time, and throughout the launch, you know, the Gs build, then we back off the thrust and the Gs build again, and then you have an engine cut off. And I like to explain, like, if you could visualize, like an old cartoon, and everybody's in the car driving, and Dad slams on the brakes, and everybody hits the windshield. And then he slams on the gas again, and everybody goes back to their seats. Like, that's what it felt like when the engine cut off and, you know, main engine cuts off, and then within a few seconds, the second engine lights, and you're set back in your seat again. So I like to give that visual. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 3:33 That's really helpful, actually. Wow. OK, so you're there, you're in space. And I guess my first question would be, what's something that, in that moment, you're either thinking or you're just, are you still just orienting yourself? What is that like? Col. Nichole “Vapor” Ayers 3:45 Oh, man, you know, we're still in the seats for the first few moments in space, and we have to open the nose cone. There's some other things that are happening on the spacecraft, and getting ready for a burn, for a phasing burn, to get up to and catch up with the International Space Station. But, you know, then eventually you get to unbuckle and get out of your seat and floating for the first time. I got out of my seat and I'm floating there. It felt like, you know, Captain Marvel when she's, like, hanging out. Yeah, that's, that's how I felt. And, you know, I like to give the visual, because it's like, it's just nothing you've ever experienced in your life, you know. And then you look out the window and the view is something, it's indescribable. You know, I don't think we have the right words in the English language to describe what it feels like to look back at Earth from space. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 4:35 Was there a moment when you're looking out at Earth — did you kind of play back just different things in your life? Did you think about, you know, significance of things, or, like, scope of things, or even just the vantage point? Did it kind of just change things or were you just in awe at the moment? Col. Nichole “Vapor” Ayers 4:49 No, I think, you know, we talked about the overview effect, when astronauts specifically look back at Earth, and it hits everybody kind of differently. And for me, I think the biggest thing you know, when you look at a map of the states or a map of the world, you know, every country is a different color, or every state's a different color, and there are lines that describe the borders, right? And those don't exist in in space. Those don't exist like when you can't see different colored states, right? But you can see the Grand Canyon, and you can see the mountains, and you can see the Amazon, and you can see the desert in Africa. And you get to, you know, you get to learn the world geography by colors and terrain. And it's just a really good reminder that, you know, we're all humans, and we're all on this little fragile marble, just trying to take care of each other and trying to take care of Earth. And so I think that's what hit me the most, was just there are no borders, and we're all the same. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 5:44 Gosh, well, it's a unique and probably highly impressive team that you're with. I mean, we know the road to get to becoming a NASA astronaut is certainly one that is very difficult. Starts from many, many, in the 1000s, down to 10. And so, you know, when we think about leadership, and I've heard you share this before with others, you talk about teamwork and leadership, maybe explain a little bit what that's like in space when you're all so highly effective leaders. You know, what does that look like? Col. Nichole “Vapor” Ayers 6:12 That's a great question. You know, I think for us, it is a very fluid movement, right? You lead one day; you follow the next. And you know, I'll give you an example. So Anne McClain was the commander of SpaceX Crew-10 for NASA. So she was in charge of Crew-10 is our ride up to the space station, and our ride home, right? It's the capsule, the rocket and the capsule. And then we were on Expedition 73 aboard the International Space Station, where Takuya, who it was, Takuya Onishi, who was our mission specialist on Dragon, soon as we crossed into the hatch and he took command. He is now the commander of the Space Station, and Anne and I are flight engineers, and so it's a pretty fluid movement in terms of leading and following. But ultimately, you know, it's just about being a good team and taking care of each other. And I think that being a good leader is taking care of other people. And, you know, we talk about team care — self-care, and team care are like the huge parts that we actually train and learn about at NASA as we go through our training, because you're on this really small space in the vacuum of space for five-plus months at a time, and it's — there are only seven people up there and everybody's going to have a bad day. We're all humans, and you can't, there's no hiding.   Col. Naviere Walkewicz 7:30 What's a bad day like in space?   Col. Nichole “Vapor” Ayers 7:32 People make mistakes, right? We're all human. You might make a mistake on something, you might mess up a procedure. You hope that it's not something that causes a safety incident, right? The main goal for me, at least, was, I know I'm going to make mistakes. As long as I'm not unsafe, I'll be happy. And I think that a lot of us have that conscious decision-making process. But I think that we're also humans and have Earth lives, and your Earth life doesn't stop when you go to space. And so bad days could be something going on at home. Bad days could be something going on in space. Could be an interaction that you had with somebody on the ground that, you know, there's a lot of communication that happens between us on the ground. There are thousands of humans on the Earth that keep the Space Station running. So that day could be anything but it's tough to hide up there. Here, you can kind of like, duck and cover and maybe you just spend the day in an office. But it doesn't happen up there. We have to continue to work and continue to function. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 8:32 So you mentioned that there are seven of you in this tight space. Now, when you go up there, your crew, is it the same seven?   Col. Nichole “Vapor” Ayers 8:38 For the majority of the time. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 8:42 OK, excellent. So one of the things we think about whenever we're leading or we're working with teams is trust, and obviously you have a great amount of trust with the crew that you're going up there with. But then you mentioned you went on to the ISS and you're working with others. What does that look like when it's someone maybe you haven't worked as closely with in a really important mission? Col. Nichole “Vapor” Ayers 9:03 So for the seven expedition members, we actually do train together for a little bit of it, not nearly as closely as, you know, the four of us training for Dragon mission. But because the most dynamic parts are launch and landing, we do a lot of training together, just as the four of us, but we train all over the world. So we go to Japan and Germany and Canada, and we go to, you know, Hawthorne, California, and we go to Russia, and we train with them, and we learn about the Russian segment, and we train with our fellow cosmonauts there. And we do emergency training specifically all together, because it takes all seven of us in an emergency doing the right thing and knowing everybody's roles. And so we train that together as well. And then anytime you're in the same country or same city together, then you get to spend the time outside of the training to get to know each other. And so you actually know your crew fairly well. But obviously, everybody's from a different nation. And we had Americans, we had a Japanese astronaut, we had Russians, so you learn everybody's culture, and it's actually, you know, to your point on being in that small — and not necessarily knowing everybody. There's also a cultural aspect; we get to know each other. We get to learn about other people's cultures and figure out how to communicate and live and work, even across the whole world. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 10:19 What was something that you learned from another culture of astronaut, maybe in the leadership realm, or just something that you took away, that's really something that surprised me, or like to emulate? Col. Nichole “Vapor” Ayers 10:30 I love Taku's leadership style. So Takuya Onishi — he's one of those more quiet humans, and he's super kind, but he is the most intelligent human I've ever met, and he is super-efficient with everything he does, and he pays attention to all of the little things. And so he only speaks up when he thinks something needs to be changed, or when he thinks that, like, we need to go in a different direction, otherwise, he's pretty happy to let you go, like, let you go as far as you want to go on something. And then when he thinks you're gonna run off a cliff, he pulls you back. So when he speaks, everybody listens. And I love that. I think some of that is cultural, obviously, him being from Japan, but I think it's also just his personal leadership style, but I learned a ton from him in terms of how to interact with people, how to let people be themselves, but also how to run a ship, and everybody knew exactly who was running the ship. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 11:22 Wow. And it shows that respect lens that you're just kind of talking about when he spoke. Everybody listens. Is that something that you feel you already had that kind of leadership style or is that something that you've kind of evolved in yourself? Col. Nichole “Vapor” Ayers 11:37 I like to think that that's the way that I lead. That's kind of how I try to be a leader. But we're not perfect, right? Nobody's perfect. And watching him, you know, taking notes from how he interacted with everybody, the things that he thought of, the things that he brought with him for us on station, you know, we get a very limited amount of stuff, personal things that we get to bring with us. And he brought things for the crew that were like, huge milestones for professional careers. You know, just the attention to detail on the human beings around him was pretty phenomenal. So it's one of the things I'm working on to be better at, because I like to think I'm good at it. But I saw the master work. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 12:18 I love that. And something you said about him, he always has attention to detail, and he saw the little things. He paid attention to the little things. I remember a past conversation we had. You had a little nugget from Col. Nick Hague, also USAFA — '98 I believe. And I think he said to you, something about, you know, “Nicole, don't forget that you're squishy,” or something like that. And so have you had more of those moments in there where they're like little nuggets or little moments that actually give you a big return or big lessons in your life? Col. Nichole “Vapor” Ayers 12:46 Oh, definitely, yeah, that one's a funny one, because the space station is metal. Everything is metal, and it's hard and so we still have weight, well, mass. We still have mass. We don't have weight, right, because we're in microgravity. But if you're cooking around a corner and you run into a handrail, it's gonna hurt, you know, if you imagine going 10 or 15 mph into something metal, it's gonna hurt — you're squishy. So that was a great lesson in slowing down and making sure you're watching your surroundings. But one of the things that Anne McClain says that cracks me up, but every time it happens, like, “Yep, this is definitely—," she says, “Experience is that thing you learn right after you need it.” And so we had a lot of those moments where you learn a lesson and you're like, “Ah, I wish I knew that five minutes ago.” And so that's something that applies everywhere. Experience is that thing you always needed right before that happened. But we also like to say Crew-10 can do hard things. That's another thing that was just kind of our motto, whether it's training — some of the training can be really physically demanding. It's really mentally demanding. And it's a lot of travel. When you get assigned to a mission, it's probably a year and a half to two years of training, and then you're gone for six months. So out of that two to two and a half years, you're not home for over a year. So you're all over the world, traveling to train and work. And like I said, we're all humans. We have Earth lives, we have homes, you get situations back home. And so navigating personal lives, navigating professional lives, navigating tough training. Crew-10 can do hard things. We like to say that. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 14:22 I like that. It also talks a bit about your grit. Crew-10 grit. So, talking about hard things, I'd like to take us to the time when you've been piloting the F-22 and you've seen combat. I heard you speaking a little bit before about a no-notice deployment. Let's visit that time in your life. What were you doing? What was your role, and what was something you experienced? Col. Nichole “Vapor” Ayers 14:47 Sure. So I was actually flying the day that we got notified. And, you know, just a standard training sortie — had landed, and some of the maintainers were like, “Hey, have you heard what's happening?” And I was like, “No, what's happening?” And then we had a big squadron meeting, and that's when we got notified, like, “Hey, we're deploying.” We were on the GRF, is what it was called at the time, Global Response Force, and I think some of that structure has changed since I left that squadron, but we knew that once we were on the GRF, there was a chance that we would get activated and get moved somewhere. Didn't necessarily expect it to be quite that quick. I think it was like the next week we got this deployment. So we got notified on a Thursday, I think, and then on Monday, I was taking off.   Col. Naviere Walkewicz 15:31 Oh, really no notice.   Col. Nichole “Vapor” Ayers 15:33 Yeah, so, four days later, we were taking off, and then seven days later, we were flying missions from — we were stationed at Al Udeid Air Base, so we're flying out of Al Udeid within a week. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 15:45 How many with you?   Col. Nichole “Vapor” Ayers 15:47 So when we deploy, we actually deploy with our maintenance squadrons, 300 people. Twenty to 30 of them are the pilots, and then the rest are the maintainers. And so it's the entire squadron. We morph into an expeditionary squadron. And so there are 300 people that head out. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 16:03 So I imagine, you know, on top of the fact that it was such a rapid movement, there's probably things that people had to obviously work through family. This needs to happen. But what were some things that you experienced in that deployment, or even in just that transition? Col. Nichole “Vapor” Ayers 16:21 Again, I go back to taking care of people. I was a flight commander at the time. We had two flight commanders, so I'm in charge of basically half the squadron, and we had a really wonderful commander who gave us the authority and the autonomy to leave the squadron. So, you know, it's about saying, like, “How are you guys doing at home?” Half our squadron didn't even have tan flight suits. You know, we're trying, we're working with logistics. We're trying to get everything ready. Like, does everybody have a go bag? Does everybody even know what a go bag is? Do you have the things you need? So working all of that. And then do you have the childcare figured out? Do you have the — how is all your family doing? Are you ready for this? And then we had to do a bunch of last-minute training before we left. And so it's a really busy time, but it was one of the first times where I felt like I had an influence on the people that were under me, that I had supervised. And so it was a really great experience to solve those problems, figure it out and help people get off the ground in four days successfully, and leaving something, some semblance of structure at home. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 17:24 So you said it was the first time where you kind of really felt that you had that impact. What would you say kind of maybe crystallized within yourself in learning that? Col. Nichole “Vapor” Ayers 17:36 I think it really solidified. I think I said, “I try to lead by taking care of people,” right? I truly believe if you take care of the human, they're going to do a really great job. You don't have to ask much of people at work and in their professional life, if their personal and the human side of them is taken care of and so that's kind of what I mean when I say that solidified it for me, like, make sure that the humans are good to go, and they'll go do anything you want to do. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 18:04 Wow. So while on that deployment, you're leading half of that squadron. What were some of the challenges maybe that you experienced, and how did you grow as a leader during that timeframe? Col. Nichole “Vapor” Ayers 18:14 Scheduling is definitely a tough one. So we flew daytime and nighttime. We basically had an F-22 airborne for almost 24 hours a day for the entire six months, six and a half months. We left and we were told it might be two- or three-month deployment, and then it turned into six months. And then we got delayed up coming home. And so then we stayed through Christmas. And those are the things that really are tough for people. But we have a limited number of jets that we took. We have a limited number of pilots; we have a limited number of maintainers and parts. And so I think for us, managing a schedule between me and the other flight commander, managing a schedule, managing quality of life for everybody, and make sure that we're not burning people out, or that they're not —we're flying eight-, nine-, 10-hour sorties, right? And that's exhausting. It's just you and that airplane with your wingman and a different airplane. And so you have to manage, again, that human factor. The human capital is probably the toughest thing to manage. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 19:15 Wow, and you talked about how the deployment kind of got extended. What were some things, because many of our listeners and our viewers are leaders, and at different levels of leadership and different times in their lives where they're doing that. When you were leading, and you had some of those subordinates, or those that were working with you that really experienced some troubles, through emotions, through some of that. How did you help navigate them through that when you were all in that as well? Col. Nichole “Vapor” Ayers 19:46 Right. You know, I think at NASA especially, we talk about self-care being a huge part of team care. And so making sure I do this in my regular life too, but, you know, making sure that you're getting enough rest, making sure that you're taking care of yourself and your personal life, so that you can truly be present for the other people that need you. And I think being present for others is one of the biggest things that you can do. You know, they may not need a ton of help, or they may not need the solution, but being there, being available and being present for people is really important. But you can't do that unless you're good to go yourself. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 20:18 Did you see that from someone? Did you learn that from someone you saw doing that? Or just, how did, I mean NASA's — you said, NASA, but did you see that at the Academy? Or where did you kind of gather that? Col. Nichole “Vapor” Ayers 20:28 You know, I think one of the things that hit me hard about showing up and being present was actually more professional. I kind of skated through the Academy on minimal sleep, and I was able to manage everything. But I wasn't flying a $143 million airplane. And so, in pilot training, we started to talk about crew rest and pilot rest. That's the first time that I had heard this concept of, “You need to go home and get rest so that you can be on your game.” Because flying airplanes, your decisions have real consequences, right? And you have to be present and available, and you have to be on your game to fly airplanes and do well in airplanes. And then the faster and the higher and the better the airplane gets, the more on your game you have to be. So I think it's something that has just kind of evolved in me. And then, as a leader, I realized, if you don't have any gas in the tank, you cannot help somebody else. And so for me, it's just kind of been, over the last decade and a half, of, wow, I need my sleep. I need to make sure I'm good to go. I need to make sure my human is good, so that way I can help other humans. And yeah, when your decisions have real consequences, it's important that you're present and you're ready to go. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 21:43 Have you seen some of the fact that you prioritize that for yourself, for you as your own human? Have you seen others kind of like see that, view that, and actually take that on as well themselves. Col. Nichole “Vapor” Ayers 21:53 Yeah, I think they do. And I think, as a leader, it's really important to set that example. The commander cannot be the first one in last one out. Like, you just can't do that, because everybody's going to stay until you leave. So setting the example, setting the example of having a good home-life balance as well. Like, home and work have to be balanced. Sleep has to be balanced. Again, self-care is the biggest part of team care, I think. And if you model that, people start to realize it's important. You know, the younger people that might burn themselves out trying to get somewhere, trying to get to the next step, or trying to impress somebody, or whatever the case may be, if they see you taking a step back and they see your success, maybe then they can start worrying about themselves too. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 22:34 I think that's a great lesson, leading by example. For sure. There are probably moments that you experience both at the Academy, while flying the F-22 or as an astronaut, where you don't have the luxury of balance. How do you navigate that and how do you help others get to that space maybe quicker? Col. Nichole “Vapor” Ayers 22:53 I think of everything as a season in life. It might just be a busy season, and you might just have to put some time in but making sure that you are planning ahead and know that you're gonna be able to take some time and reset. And that could be anything, right? That could be personal life, professional life. That could be the four-week training trip that we've got is going to be rough, and its multiple time zones, and it's a ton of training, it's a ton of information. You just have to get through it. But then, that week, when we got home, I made sure my schedule was a little lighter. Whatever the balance is, I think of things in seasons. Crew-10 can do hard things, right? And that came from — you can get through this next training session, right? But we're gonna do a mask-to-suit transition, which is like in a fire, you've got a mask on. You have to get from that mask into your spacesuit. It's a significant physical event. And there's limited oxygen; there's limited ability to breathe in the suit when in that specific environment. And so how do you slow down, take the breaths you need to get in there to not then get to a point where you're panicking, right? Or that you're too exhausted or too hot or overdid, or whatever it is, right? So I think even just that, that is a season. We're going to do two hours of this. That's my season, and then we'll get out of the simulator, we'll take a break, right? And if it happened on orbit, it would be like, “We're going to get through this. We're going to solve the problem. We're going to manage the emergency, and then once things are set, we'll have a moment to breathe.” So that's kind of how I think of it. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 24:21 Did seasons come something, a term that you kind of realized maybe at the Academy, you were a volleyball athlete at the Academy, and so volleyball has a season. But my question is, like, how did you come to that realization? Like, “Oh, I can get through this, and I put it in a bucket of time.” Col. Nichole “Vapor” Ayers 24:35 You learn a lot of time management at the Academy, and when you're in the fall, you're really busy, spring season is less busy, and so you kind of learn early how to manage. Like, “OK, I've got to run. I gotta sprint,” right? “And then I can jog later, or I can walk later.” So, I think you learn that growing up in school, and you know, if you play sports or you do extracurricular activities or other things like that, or even just seasons in life at home, life ebbs and flows. I don't even know when I started saying it, but my sister and I started saying “seasons of life” to each other a long time ago. You know, she's got three kiddos, so she's been in all sorts of seasons. But, yeah, it's just, you know, I think I started to time block things, or block things off and just, and that's the only way you're going to get through life, is if you focus on what you need to do right now, be good at it, and then move to the next thing. You can have an idea of what's coming next, but you have to be present and do what you're doing there. Yes, so, yeah, seasons, time, blocks, whatever you want to call it. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 25:39 I like that. Well, you brought up your sister, and so you're an auntie of three. Let's talk about your personal life and leadership, some experiences you've had navigating your schedule. You're on the road so much. How do you prioritize? I guess the things that are important to you when you have such a heavy schedule, yeah, being on the road and the people that are important to you, right? Col. Nichole “Vapor” Ayers 26:03 Man, I think that for me, my family has been a huge support system my whole life. My twin sister — built in best friend.   Col. Naviere Walkewicz 26:13 And who is older? Col. Nichole “Vapor” Ayers 26:14 She is. She's got me by a minute. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 26:18 OK. Does she hold that over you?   Col. Nichole “Vapor” Ayers 26:20 Yes, of course she does. We've just always supported each other 100% and everything. She's been my biggest cheerleader through all of my life, and I've been her biggest cheerleader through all of her life. And you know, my main goal in life is to be the coolest auntie, like the best auntie, and I would die happy. And they're a huge priority to me. I see them every couple two to three months — since my oldest has was born. So for the last 14 years, just made it a priority, even if it's like, leave late on a Friday night and then get home late Sunday night, I make the effort to go see them and to interact with them. And you know, to help foster them. You know they're growing up. And I love watching kids grow up and experience the world and see what can be done. Their dad's a Marine, their mom's this really successful real estate agent, their auntie' a pilot-slash-astronaut. You know, they've got, like, all these no family that's really not doing very much. Yeah, you know, they've got all these really great role models. And my goal is to just show them that it doesn't matter who you are, like they only ever know me as auntie. Like they know I'm an astronaut, and they love that. Their friends know that I'm an astronaut. Anti vapor, no, no, yeah. But, you know, like, they're always gonna get a big hug from auntie, like, that's, that's what's important to me. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 27:36 Well, you mentioned, going into space, being an auntie. So, would you describe your time and space is, it's probably out of this world. I mean, that's, wow, that's terrible. That's terrible I said it that way. But I think you've mentioned it is kind of the best time in your life. Col. Nichole “Vapor” Ayers 27:52 Yeah. Best five months my life. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 27:56 Best five months of your life, and it's passed. Now, when we think about our evolution, whether personally, professionally, as leaders, etc., we have these ideas in our mind, like, this is the pinnacle. How do you navigate what's next after you've experienced that pinnacle? Col. Nichole “Vapor” Ayers 28:14 Yeah, that's a great question, and I think it's something that a lot of us struggle with when we come home. What's next? We get six months, some time to think and kind of get reintegrated. And you don't necessarily have to go back to work right away. I was able to spend a ton of time with my sister and her kiddos. Yeah, what's next. And I think for me, like the drive out to the launch pad, I was like, “Man, I've made it.” You know, the first time I looked out the window from Dragon, “I've made it.” First time we crossed the hatch, and I went and looked out the glass like, “Wow. The hard work paid off.” And I still feel like that to this day. I would have spent four more months in space if they had asked me to, and I would have turned around and launched right back then the day that we landed, and it was because of the crewmates that I spent it with and the fulfillment that I got from the mission. But I think you can find fulfillment in a lot of ways. And you know, my job, now that I've been back, I'm going to be working with the new class of astronauts and their training for spacewalk. So in the Neutral Buoyancy Lab, our big pool, like, my job is to be their mentor as they go through the spacewalk training. And you know, like, I cannot wait. I'm so excited. I cannot wait to have an impact and try to help teach this next generation of spacewalkers, this next generation of astronauts, to be better than us. I find a lot of fulfillment in making the next generation better. So I think, however the fulfillment shows up for people, I think as long as you can find something, there you'll be happy. Going to space was great, but teaching and instructing and mentoring is also really fulfilling for me. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 29:54 And that will be 10 of them? How many will that be? Col. Nichole “Vapor” Ayers 29:55 Ten.   Col. Naviere Walkewicz 29:56 Ten. So then you'll have 13. You'll be auntie to 13. Oh, that's wonderful. What have you learned about yourself since then? You know, you've evolved as a leader through different situations, high threat, high risk. Safety is paramount. All of those different experiences. And now you're back on Earth and you're about to, you know, mentor. How have you evolved your leadership, and where would you say you're trying to go? Col. Nichole “Vapor” Ayers 30:23 Where am I trying to go? I think, for me, leadership is also about being vulnerable and being open and honest with people about failures or hardships and so, you know, like in the flying community, if you make a mistake, you're immediately like, “Hey, I messed this up. Here's how we fix it.” And that's something that we do at NASA as well, especially on a grand scale, right? Thousands of employees and everybody like, that's the only way that we get to space is by admitting when we've made mistakes, talking to each other about how we fix it and sharing those lessons learned. And so I think that especially when you get into the higher roles of leadership, it's important to go, “Hey, I messed up,” or, “Hey, I don't know the answer.” And being transparent with the people that you're working with. And if you don't know it, but you know where to go find it, like, “I'll get that answer for you,” instead of making up an answer, trying to figure out how to look like you're in charge, right? It's really important to me to also show that we don't know everything. We're human. We make mistakes, and it's OK to make mistakes, as long as you share it, and you share the lessons learned, and you make the next person better. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 31:32 Did you experience that personally? Did you have a moment in which you had to say, “Hey, I made a mistake,” and that's helped you realize that being vulnerable is really important or is that just something you've seen done really well? Col. Nichole “Vapor” Ayers 31:40 Oh, I've admitted a lot of mistakes. You know, I made a couple pretty big mistakes in the Raptor. Everybody's gonna make a big mistake at some point in their life. And, you know, I think that that was something that was modeled really well in the flying community early on. And it's something that's not tolerated if you're not willing to share your lessons learned. It's not tolerated in that community. That's a really good thing. I learned that in pilot training, right? If your buddy in your class makes the same mistake the next day that you made, you get in trouble because you didn't tell them how to how to prepare. And so it's fostered early on, especially in the flying community. I can't speak to any other community because I grew up there, but it's fostered early on, and so it's just something that comes naturally. I think eventually, because you just, you've seen it done so many times, and if you want other people to succeed, you're going to do it. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 32:29 All right. Well, we have two questions left. The first one is, what's something you do every day to be a better leader? Col. Nichole “Vapor” Ayers 32:37 That's a good one. This is gonna sound silly, but I sleep. Like, I'll go back to the self-care thing, right? Like, I put a lot of attention into being healthy, being hydrated, sleeping well. Like, if you take care of your body, your mind is going to do way more for you. And so I think you can show up as a better leader if you show up, rested, hydrated, fed, worked out whatever you need to do to be the best human you can be. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 33:09 That's what I try to do. OK. I like that a lot, and I think that's a good indication for me that six hours is probably not enough. Naviere needs a little bit more. And it's truth, because you told me, though I'm gonna do that. The second one is, if you could go back in time, maybe what's something you would have told yourself — your younger self — or maybe, as our cadets are listening, that you've learned and what they can be doing now to be a better leader down the road. Col. Nichole “Vapor” Ayers 33:34 If you run into a hardship or you fail at something, or something feels insurmountable, or you don't feel like you're ready, good enough, or whatever the case may be, doubt starts to seep in, right? I would say, rely on the support system that you have. Rely on the people around you. Talk about it. Figure out, you know, “Hey, I failed this GR, like, man, this kind of sucks.” And you know, maybe you just need to hear me say it out loud, and maybe I just need to get it off my chest, or maybe I need help trying to figure out the solution for whatever the case may be. So, you know, I had a built-in team on the volleyball team. I had a built-in friends and teammates that I could lean on. Maybe that's your squadronmates or your classmates, or whoever it is, right? And I think finding the friends that you can rely on for the rest of your life. Professionally, I've got a friend here that I met in the F-22 community. We've been friends for almost a decade now, and he's still one of the first people that I call when something happens, like, “Oh, I messed this up today. Help.” So, you know, finding a support system. My sister's the other person that I call first off. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 34:38 She probably knows you're gonna call when you call. Col. Nichole “Vapor” Ayers 34:39 Yeah, we talk way too much. But, you know, having that support system around you and finding people that really bolster you and get you across that line and help you find the courage to take the next step, I think that's really important. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 34:54 I know I said there was only two, but as I've listened to you, I just think you're just you're just remarkable, and maybe what's something that you're proud about yourself as a leader. I would really love to hear that in your, you know— Col. Nichole “Vapor” Ayers 35:05 I think the thing that makes me the most proud as a leader is when somebody succeeds and it's something that I helped them do. I've had somebody come back and say, “Thanks for saying that.” That pushed me out the edge, you know, like, I'm really into building the next generation and make them better than us. And so if I see somebody succeeding, that's good. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 35:27 Well, this has been incredible. Is there anything that we didn't cover that you would love to share with the Long Blue Line in our community? Col. Nichole “Vapor” Ayers 35:33 Oh, man, the community is great. I think I would just say thank you to the community. I've gotten so much love and support from Coloradans, but also the Long Blue Line and the Air Force in general. You know, I love the community that we have. It goes right back to what I just said, right, finding a community that supports you and pushes you to do better and be better. And this is that community. Col. Naviere Walkewicz 35:55 Well, Vapor, I promise I'm gonna get more sleep, and I just want to thank you for being such an incredible leader and guest here on Long Blue Leadership. Col. Nichole “Vapor” Ayers 36:03 Thanks for having me back. Absolutely.   Col. Naviere Walkewicz 36:05 Thanks. You know, this conversation was really incredible with Vapor. I think some of the things that really stood out to me is just how incredible as a human she is. She brings humanity into leadership. She puts people first. She thinks about the team. She works hard. Don't forget to prioritize sleep. But I think really, some of the lessons that we can all take away can hit us all personally, because if you think about people first and taking care of them, and the fact that you have to take care of yourself too, you can go really far in leadership. So I really appreciate her today on Long Blue Leadership. And I'm Naviere Walkewicz, Class of '99. Until next time.   KEYWORDS Joel Neeb, Long Blue Leadership, Air Force Academy leadership, USAFA leadership, military leadership podcast, leadership development, leadership lessons, character-based leadership, leadership under pressure, leading with integrity, decision making in leadership, mentorship and leadership, values-based leadership, service before self, leadership mindset, leadership podcast interview, military leadership stories, leadership for professionals, leadership for entrepreneurs, how to be a better leader, leadership growth.       The Long Blue Line Podcast Network is presented by the U.S. Air Force Academy Association & Foundation        

Need financing for your next investment property? Visit: https://www.academyfund.com/ Want to join us in Charleston, SC on June 1st & 2nd? Visit: https://www.10xvets.com/events ____ Tim Siemer is an Air Force veteran, aviator, and partner at SMB Equity, a real estate private equity firm investing in stabilized and development projects nationwide. At SMB, Tim focuses on evaluating new opportunities and managing investor relationships, applying a disciplined risk management approach shaped by years in military and commercial aviation. He works alongside his father, Mike Siemer, who transitioned into real estate investing after a career as a CPA and corporate CFO for both public and private companies. Over the past 24 years, Mike has helped lead SMB Equity through more than $3 billion in transactions, scaling the firm through long-term partnerships, disciplined underwriting, and a focus on tangible, value-driven assets. Together, they combine generational experience, financial expertise, and risk discipline to offer individual investors access to institutional real estate opportunities.     In this episode of the SABM podcast, Scott chats with Mike and Tim about: Scaling a Multi-Billion-Dollar Real Estate Platform: Mike's transition from CPA and corporate CFO to leading more than $3 billion in real estate transactions over the past two decades. Choosing Ownership Early: Tim investing his Academy loan into real estate instead of spending it, reinforcing a long-term asset-based wealth strategy. Risk Management in Real Estate: Applying aviation discipline to deal evaluation, downside protection, and structured decision making. The Power of Relationships: SMB's emphasis on trusted operators, repeat partnerships, and character as the first filter in any investment. Alternative Investments with Discipline: Positioning private real estate as a complementary asset class within a diversified portfolio.   Timestamps: 01:02 SMB Equity Overview 01:45 Origins And Early Deals 05:35 Selling Before The 2008 Crash 06:54 Post Recession Pivot 09:24 Investor Base And Tax Edge 11:36 Tim Joins The Business 17:53 Deal Sniff Test Framework 24:27 Deal Types And Structure 30:45 2026 Goals And Investor Mindset Connect with Mike and Tim: LinkedIn | Tim Siemer  LinkedIn | Mike Siemer If you found value in today's episode, don't keep it to yourself—share it with a colleague or friend who could benefit. And if you're a Service Academy graduate ready to elevate your business, we'd love for you to join our community and get started today. Make sure you never miss an episode subscribe now and help support the show: Apple Podcasts Spotify Leave us a 5-star review! A special thank you to Tim for joining me this week. Until next time! -Scott Mackes, USNA '01

What happens when a USAFA graduate who flew fighter aircraft and served at NORAD turns his imagination to building a multiverse? That's the origin of Terrence L. Rotering's epic Chronicles saga — a thirteen-book blend of science fiction, fantasy, and spiritual warfare. In this conversation on The Author's Voice with KAJ, Terrence pulls back the curtain on the third installment, Forever, The Chronicles of Trinian, where a resistance fighter and a college professor battle to survive as aliens and sentient AI arrive, all racing for an artifact that may control time itself. He shares what inspired this ever-expanding world, how he navigated creative blocks, what the publishing journey taught him, and his advice for anyone with a story but no idea where to start. Join us to explore the mystery, friendship, and redemption waiting inside the Chronicles — and the mind that built it all. Explore the stories behind the stories at https://kajmasterclass.com.=========================================*Guest*Terrence L. Rotering is a USAFA graduate who flew fighter aircraft globally before serving at NORAD. Today, he is the visionary author of the epic Chronicles saga—a masterful three-volume, thirteen-book multiverse blending science fiction, fantasy, and spiritual warfare. His ever-expanding world-building shines in the gripping third installment, Forever. The novel follows a resistance fighter and a college professor battling to survive a tyrannical government as aliens and sentient artificial intelligence arrive, sparking fierce competition for an ancient artifact that may control time itself. Mystery, friendship, adventure, action, suspense, and redemption await the reader as they join the resistance.Connect:https://chroniclesoftrinian.com/=========================================*Host — Khudania Ajay (KAJ)*Independent journalist | 20+ years in media, leadership & storytelling | 2,500+ long-form conversations

Need financing for your next investment property? Visit: https://www.academyfund.com/ Want to join us in Charleston, SC on June 1st & 2nd? Visit: https://www.10xvets.com/events ____ Ryan Dau is a former Air Force officer, and founder of ReframeRIA, a consultancy that helps financial advisors streamline their operations, refine their client experience, and optimize their technology stack.  Through ReframeRIA, Ryan partners with advisory firms to improve their workflows, refine their client experience, and implement technology that truly supports their businesses. His mission is simple: remove the operational chaos that slows advisors down so they can spend more time serving clients and growing their firms with confidence. In this episode of the SABM podcast, Scott chats with Ryan about: The Nonlinear Career Path: Ryan's Military, software, and advisory experience shaped his transition into consulting. Serving the Advisor, Not the Tech: Work begins with clarifying an advisor's ideal client and core processes before any tech is added. Fixing Operational Chaos: Streamlined onboarding, workflows, and service calendars help advisors reclaim time. The Rise of AI Note-Taking Tools: AI tools like Jump AI simplify communication and sync data across essential systems. Building Partnerships & Scaling Smart: Ryan's 2026 goals center on advisor partnerships and exploring a future fractional C-Suite Model. Mindset Shifts After Military Service: Adjusting from mission-first service to revenue driven entrepreneurship remains an ongoing mission. Timestamps: 00:41 Ryan's Path to Reframe 03:41 Advisor Pain Points 05:51 Workflow Before Tools 09:01 2026 Goals and Growth 11:42 Fractional C Suite Vision 17:12 Partnerships to Build 19:02 Challenges and Mindset Shift 24:44 Moonshot Be Better Brand 28:37 Connect and Wrap Up Connect with Ryan: LinkedIn | Ryan Dau www.reframeia.com  If you found value in today's episode, don't keep it to yourself—share it with a colleague or friend who could benefit. And if you're a Service Academy graduate ready to elevate your business, we'd love for you to join our community and get started today. Make sure you never miss an episode subscribe now and help support the show: Apple Podcasts Spotify Leave us a 5-star review! A special thank you to Ryan for joining me this week. Until next time! -Scott Mackes, USNA '01  

What does courage look like under fire? In captivity? In command? In service? This edition of Long Blue Leadership was recorded on location at the U.S. Air Force Academy's 33rd National Character and Leadership Symposium. We've explored these questions with our guests and captured the conversations for you. Ted Robertson, Multimedia and Podcast Specialist for the Air Force Academy Association and Foundation, hosts this special episode featuring voices shaped by combat, crises and lifelong service. Their message to cadets is clear: Leadership is earned through character, and character is forged in hard moments. - Seg. 1: Lt. Col. Mark George and C1C Jaime Snyder, officer and NCLS cadet director, respectively, set the stage for this year's NCLS and for the podcast. - Seg. 2: Senior Master Sgt. (Ret.) Israel "DT" Del Toro on courage in times of crisis. - Seg. 3: Task Force Hope developer and facilitator Maj. Tara Holmes on preparing future leaders to handle crisis before it happens. - Seg. 4: Former POW Maj. Gen. (Ret.) Edward Mechenbier '64, on leading in circumstances out of your control. - Seg. 5: Annapolis grad and Vietnam-era aviator, Capt. (Ret.) J. Charles Plumb on how character breeds courage. All of our guest's lives and careers reflect the reality of this year's theme through combat, crisis and service.     CONNECT WITH THE LONG BLUE LINE PODCAST NETWORK TEAM Ted Robertson | Producer and Editor:  Ted.Robertson@USAFA.org Send your feedback or nominate a guest: socialmedia@usafa.org   Ryan Hall | Director:  Ryan.Hall@USAFA.org  Bryan Grossman | Copy Editor:  Bryan.Grossman@USAFA.org Wyatt Hornsby | Executive Producer:  Wyatt.Hornsby@USAFA.org      ALL PAST LBL EPISODES  |  ALL LBLPN PRODUCTIONS AVAILABLE ON ALL MAJOR PODCAST PLATFORMS     FULL TRANSCRIPT OUR SPEAKERS:  - Host, Ted Robertson, Multimedia and Podcast Specialist, United States Air Force Academy Association and Foundation  - Seg. 1: C1C Jaime Snyder, NCLS Cadet Director; Lt. Col. Mark George, NCLS Officer  - Seg. 2: Senior Master Sargent Israel Del Toro  - Seg. 3: Maj. Tara Holmes, Task Force Hope  - Seg. 4: Maj. Gen. (Ret.) Edward Mechenbier '64  - Seg. 5: Capt. (Ret.) J. Charles Plumb   Ted Robertson 0:00 Welcome to Long Blue Line Podcast Network coverage of the 33rd annual National Character and Leadership Symposium. I'm Ted Robertson, multimedia and podcast specialist for the Air Force Academy Association & Foundation, coming to you from Polaris Hall located here at the United States Air Force Academy. This year's symposium centers on the theme Courage to Lead in the Profession of Arms: Combat and Crisis-tested Character, where attendees and cadets will explore how courage in all its forms shapes leaders when uncertainty, fear and consequence are real. Our coverage will start with the Center for Character and Leadership Development's Lt. Col. Mark George and NCLS director, Cadet 1st Class Jaime Snyder. They'll set the stage not only for NCLS, but for today's coverage. Then we'll talk with four key leaders speaking at the symposium, including Senior Master Sgt. (Ret.) Israel Del Torro on keeping courageous during times of crisis. We'll also talk with Task Force Hope developer and facilitator, Maj. Tara Holmes, on preparing leaders to handle crisis before it happens. Then, former POW, Maj. Gen. (Ret.) Edward Mechenbier, USAFA Class of '64, on leading in circumstances out of your control. And finally, Annapolis grad and Vietnam-era aviator, Capt. (Ret.) J. Charles Plumb, on how character breeds courage. All of our guests' lives and careers reflect the reality of this year's theme through combat, crisis and service. So I want to bring in our first two guests to help, as I said, frame the discussion today. We're going to dig in to learn what this is all about and sort of the “why” behind it. Cadet Jaime Snyder, 2026 NCLS director. Cadet Snyder, you've helped lead the organizing of the National Character and Leadership Symposium — 33rd year for this, as you know, and part of that work, you've trained cadets and permanent party. I'm going to ask you to explain permanent party, all of which helps strengthen your own public speaking and leadership communication skills. You want to kind of expound on that a bit? C1C Jaime Snyder 2:20 Yes, sir. So a part of my role being in NCLS is to, one, provide the guidance, the support and resources on the cadet side to succeed. But what really makes NCLS special is that we integrate permanent party with cadets. So oftentimes me, in supporting and training permanent party, is giving them cadet perspective, because while they're over here and the Center for Character and Leadership Development, we're over there in the Cadet Wing, and I can be the mediator between both parties. Ted Robertson 2:46 Let's talk a little bit about permanent party. What does that term mean? Who does that describe? C1C Jaime Snyder 2:52 Oh yes. Permanent party describes the civilian and military faculty that works in the Center for Character and Leadership Development that assists with the execution of NCLS — the National Character and Leadership Symposium. Ted Robertson 3:05 How big is the team behind this event every year? C1C Jaime Snyder 3:08 It's kind of complex where we'll get search cadets. We'll get a large number of volunteers, approximately around 300 from the Cadet Wing. Internal staff consists of 50 cadets who work it throughout the entire year, and around 50 staff members who are permanent party who work in the Center for Character and Leadership Development. Ted Robertson 3:29 I want to bring in next Lt. Col. Mark George, who is the experiential and training division chief and NCLS program director, the very fortunate man that gets to work for some incredibly talented cadets. Col. Mark George 3:43 That is absolutely true. Thanks to for having us on. Cadet Snyder has done an outstanding job leading this team. I came into this a little bit late. You know, we've had some reorganization here at the Academy, and after some shuffling, I got the honor and the privilege to take over NCLS while the planning was well underway. So my job was to just make sure this train kept rolling, that people had the resources that they needed, the top cover they needed. And as Jamie said, he was training me as a permanent party member to make sure that I had the cadet perspective. And then, you know, we were moving this ball forward as we got to this event. Ted Robertson 4:23 So coming up in the podcast we'll get to the sort of “why” and what's at the core of NCLS. Colonel, let's start with you. What is National Character and Leadership Symposium designed to do for cadets?   Col. Mark George 4:38 Sure. The National Character and Leadership Symposium — NCLS — is designed to bring exemplars that embody the core values and the traits that we want cadets to have when they become leaders on Day 1 and inspire them to a lifetime of service.   Ted Robertson 4:57 Cadet Snyder?   C1C Jaime Snyder 4:59 We definitely see at USAFA, there is a clear correlation with NCLS and character development. One thing we want cadets to get out of NCLS is to further develop leaders of character who are going to join the fight in the Air Force and Space Force, and that's why I see the epitome of NCLS as it's an opportunity to hear people's perspectives as well as learn from it and apply it to their daily lives. Ted Robertson 5:24 Gentlemen, this year's theme focuses on the courage to lead in the profession of arms. Cadet Snyder, we'll start with you. How did that theme come together, and why is it especially relevant for cadets right now? C1C Jaime Snyder 5:40 With our current structure at USAFA, we've had some implement of change. We recognize that the future war conflict is more prevalent than ever, and that it's important for the cadets to understand that we're changing the way we approach training, as well as what we're learning in curriculum. So this NCLS was an incredible opportunity to discuss courage when leading in the profession of arms, but furthermore, courage and crises-tested character. Which is what we're trying to further push along with what we do in training as well as what we teach in leadership. Ted Robertson 6:15 You make good decisions when your character is strong. You make those decisions with integrity when your character is intact and it's strong. Would you agree with that, Colonel? Col. Mark George 6:25 Absolutely. And I think Cadet Snyder hit the nail on the head that we really want the cadets to understand that the environments that they're stepping into are going to require that courage to do hard things. In my day, like we didn't necessarily think about the fight in that way. You know, we were kind of stovepiped in. And these cadets, whatever environment they may be stepping into, the next conflict is going to require a lot, a high demand of them, and their character is their foundation for that. Ted Robertson 6:59 One of the things you can say about this event is that it brings together voices from combat, crisis, athletics, academia and industry. How intentional is that mix, Cadet Snyder, and what do cadets gain from hearing such different perspectives on leadership and character? C1C Jaime Snyder 7:18 I think by hearing different perspectives, you get to see how universal courage is. When we say courage, it's not just one thing, it's also moral, social, spiritual. And by looking at different versions of courage, you can understand that there's different ways to actually apply courage. Understanding that courage is not the absence of fear, also knowing that courage is not simply being a confident individual. That it's more complex than you may define courage, and so you can then apply it that way — by looking at different perspectives. Ted Robertson 7:53 Colonel, I'll address this one to you as well. Col. Mark George 7:56 Sure. Courage — we're talking about courage here, and there's a heavy focus on the combat side with this year's speakers. The thing that sticks out to me is that courage always involves a decision to do the hard thing. And that's what all of our speakers brought this year. They're showing how in different environments, whether it's in a prison cell in Hanoi or up on the Space Station or — there's a hard decision and the right thing is sometimes pretty obvious, but it doesn't mean it's easy. It does not mean it's easy to do. And so courage always involves a decision to do the right thing. Ted Robertson 8:39 Cadet Snyder? C1C Jaime Snyder 8:40 What he said I find to be very true — understanding that courage is not simply doing something physical, but also in a leadership role, especially — we're talking to cadets who are going to soon be commissioned officers. It's important to know that you need to make the right decision on and off the battlefield. Ted Robertson 8:58 So from your perspective as a cadet — and this one is just for you, Cadet Snyder — what does it mean to help shape an event like NCLS while you're still developing as a leader yourself? C1C Jaime Snyder 9:10 What I've seen through NCLS is taking the time to relax. Don't focus on the future and focus where you're at right now, and that's character development. So don't let the pursuit of tomorrow diminish the joy today. We all have this aspiration to graduate, throw our hats in the air, Thunderbirds fly over. But right now it's important to focus on character development as that's going to be important as future officers. Ted Robertson 9:35 That makes 1,000% very clear sense. But I do want to ask you, less than 100 days from the day you toss your hat — you're giving me a big smile right now — talk about how that feels right now for you. C1C Jaime Snyder 9:47 It's incredible, and a part of it is less daunting, because I can say this institution has really prepared me to commission, and so it's more liberating than daunting for me. Ted Robertson 9:58 Col. George, I'm going to direct this one straight to you, and this is an ask of you from the leadership perspective: How do we events Like NCLS fit into the broader effort to intentionally develop leaders of character here at the Academy. Col. Mark George 10:14 So I get the honor of leading the experiential and training division in the Center for Character and Leadership Development. So we're all about creating experiences and those opportunities for cadets to have different types of environments where they'll learn about character. And right now, NCLS is an opportunity to listen to where people's character was tested, how they overcame it. And then we also have different events that we try to put the cadets in where we'll actually test their character. And that could be on the challenge tower, it could be through our character labs where we're having discussions. NCLS is a huge part of that, because the planning cycle is so long. Ted Robertson 10:59 Cadet Snyder? C1C Jaime Snyder 11:00 Yes, sir. One thing I wanted to add on to that is with NCLS, one thing that makes this event the most unique experience that I've had is the fact that we get to engage in meaningful dialog. This isn't a brief. This is an experience for everyone who attends. I've had the opportunity to talk to Col. George's son, who aspires to possibly come to the Air Force Academy. So I don't want to say this is just for cadets, but it's also a promotion tool. And understand that what we do at NCLS is very important. And anyone who wants to attend can come and see what we're doing and how important it is.   Col. Mark George 11:33 I want to thank you for that, by the way. He looks up to you, and that meant a lot.   Ted Robertson 11:37 That's pretty visionary stuff. That's touching the next generation. That's fantastic. All right, this is for you both. When cadets look back on NCLS years from now, what do you hope they're going to remember feeling or being challenged to do differently?   C1C Jaime Snyder 11:56 There is a very strong human component to NCLS, and with that, there's a human experience. Understanding that we're getting speakers and we'll see their bios that they're incredible. They have incredible stories of making the right decision when tensions were high, and getting to hear their stories and understand that they ultimately were no different than we are. Some of them were Air Force Academy graduates. Some graduated from the Naval Academy, West Point, other colleges, but they were young, 20-year-old people like we were as cadets. And so getting to understand where they're coming from, human experience is vital to NCLS, and how do we grow and understand where they're coming from? Ted Robertson 12:38 Col. George? Col. Mark George 12:39 Yeah, I think what I would want the cadets to remember is how these speakers made them feel. You're right, you won't remember every nugget of wisdom that was said. I just had the opportunity to talk with Gen. Scott Miller, and he was an incredible leader. And I feel like everything he was saying was gold. I wish I'd been able to write it down. But he really makes you feel like you understand just how important your role is going to be as a young leader. And when you come away as second lieutenants from this place, you've had incredible opportunities and now you're stepping out in the real world. I would think I want the cadets to remember that like, “Hey, what I do matters, and how I lead is very important to getting this mission done.”   Ted Robertson 13:24 Lt. Col. Mark George and C1C Jaime Snyder, officer and cadet in charge of the 33rd NCLS. Congratulations on the event. Well done, and thank you for spending time here with us on the podcast today. Hearing from both the cadet perspective and the senior leadership behind NCLS makes one thing very clear: This symposium is intentionally designed not just to inspire but to prepare future leaders for moments when character will be tested. And that brings me to my first featured guest, a man whose life story embodies what combat and crisis-tested character truly means. Israel “DT” Del Toro, welcome to the podcast. It's an honor to be with you here at the National Character and Leadership Symposium. Senior Master Sgt. (Ret.) Israel Del Toro 14:18 Thank you, Ted. Thanks for having me. Good to see you again.   Ted Robertson 14:21 Yes, it's not the first time we've gotten to spend some time together. Senior Master Sgt. Israel Del Toro 14:24 It's always great to talk to people, try and spread the word of the whole spark and the promise of my dad. Ted Robertson 14:30 The spark and the promises are the two things that really stood out to me about that interview — your heart and your soul man, from a very, very early age. Senior Master Sgt. Israel Del Toro 14:39 You know, losing my dad at 12, and then a year and a half later, losing my mom to a drunk driver, and being the oldest, you know, having to now kind of step up to be, like, the parent figure to my younger siblings. It was challenging.   Ted Robertson 14:55 Out of all of that, you wound up as a retired — you are currently a retired senior master sergeant. You took responsibility for your siblings, as you say, after you were orphaned as a teenager, and ultimately in the service combat-wounded airmen, and you survived catastrophic injuries against incredible odds, and that did not keep you down. One of the things that you did was you became an Invictus Games gold medalist. You're now a national speaker, and you talk a lot about resilience and purpose.   Senior Master Sgt. Israel Del Toro 15:27 Yes, sir. Yeah, Invictus, I won gold in shot put. It was pretty awesome. You know, everyone was just going nuts. Ted Robertson 15:37 You kind of make me feel like that was a soul-feeding, motivating time for you.   Senior Master Sgt. Israel Del Toro 15:42 It was. At that time, I was probably one of the senior guys, kind of. Obviously, I was one of the senior guys, wounded guys on the team, and so a lot of people looked up to me. And sometimes I wish — people would say, “Man, it's great. You're such trailblazer.” You're sometimes like, “Man, I just want to be one of the guys. I just, I just want to be No. 10.” You know, everything's all done, and no one's focusing everything on me. But it's a burden that I'm willing to carry on to try and continue to help people.   Ted Robertson 16:19 I want to linger here in your background a bit, because it's more than just impressive. I think impressive is pretty trite to describe what your background is. Let's start with before the Air Force and before combat, and just how your life demanded responsibility at such a young age. And what I want to ask is, how did stepping up for your family shape the leader that you became? Senior Master Sgt. Israel Del Toro 16:40 Well, I contribute that totally to my dad. I truly do. My dad was there. My dad, you know, I went everywhere with my dad. My dad — you know, he came from Mexico to this country, and he gave up a lot. You know, my family in Mexico is very wealthy, their ranchers and all that. He came here with nothing. And he always used to tell me, he's like, “Don't ever be envious of someone that's successful. Learn from them. Ask them questions.” He also used to tell me, “If you don't succeed, it's no one else's fault by yourself. Don't blame where you came from, where you grew up from, the situation. It is only your fault.” So my dad always had told me these little lessons and obviously the last lesson he gave me the night before he passed: Always take care of your family. And that just stayed with me, that kind of continued to shape me all throughout my life, all through my journey, at a young age to teenager to young adult to the military and to now, to this day, that really guided me to who I am. Now, it's like, I always hear people say, “Oh, man, I don't know if I can do it.” I was like, “Yeah, you can. You Just never know. You weren't ever put in that situation” I always believe — you always hear the fight or flight. “What are you gonna do?” I just fight, and I continue to fight. I just don't see the flight in me. And, you know, being the promise of take care of your family. Yes, I tell people, that originated with my family — my brothers and sisters. But throughout time it has evolved to now anyone I see that's having a hard time that needs maybe to hear a story or read a book or hear a journey to help them find that spark, because I see them now as my family. I see that as my family, as my mission now.   Ted Robertson 18:50 Let's stay with spark for a minute. It's just one of my favorite things that you've ever talked about. You're down, you've been badly burned, you're worried about whether you're going to survive, and a medic is helping you out, and he does something for you. He says something to you.   Senior Master Sgt. Israel Del Toro 19:07 Yeah, you know, the medic — I always like to say, you know, yes, I'm Air Force. Those guys were Army, and we bust each other's chops. But, we're all brothers and sisters, and we're down range, you know? We take care of each other, we tell stories, we talk about our family. So these guys knew what had happened in my past with my family. So when I'm, you know, laying there, after I coordinate getting air, and I started the adrenaline going down, I started getting scared. I was having a hard time breathing, and I just wanted to lay down and sleep. The medic came and reminded me, “DT, remember what you promised your son, that you'll never let him grow without his dad. Fight for your son. You got to fight for your son.” And he's just making me yell it. You use anything you can to keep your guy motivated, to help that spark go, keep going. And that's what he did. He found that spark to keep me going, to keep me fighting until that medevac came and to get me on that helicopter, to the FOB, to the hospital, and then to eventually San Antonio. Ted Robertson 20:24 After that injury, that's when the fight shifted. You had to get off the battlefield. You had to get that out of your head. You had to start battling for your recovery. So what did courage look like when progress seemed like it was slow and at one point nothing was guaranteed? Israel Del Toro 20:46 Yeah, it, you know, when he had a shift from now being on the battlefield to now a different kind of battle and your recovery, your way of life — it's difficult because you have people telling you this is what your life's going to be. You know, being told that you're never going to walk again. You got to be in a hospital for another year and a half, respirator for the rest of your life and your military career is pretty much over. You know, I like to say there's two choices again: Who you're going to be? Are you going to take the easy path, which is, I'm going to sit in a chair, accept what they say, hate life, you know, curse the world. Are you going to take the hard path where I want to fight? I'm going to show you I can do this. I'm going to prove that I still have value, and I want to come out of this ahead and show not only my son but the rest of the world. You stay positive, you find that spark, you will come out ahead. Ted Robertson 21:48 All right, last question on your background, because we're going to roll all this into why you're here and what messages you want to share with the cadets and the attendees that are here. You did something I don't think most human beings would even think about after that ordeal that you had been through all those years, everything. You reenlisted, and it wasn't just a medical milestone. It wasn't because you could, it was a conscious decision. So what internal commitment had to come first for you to make that decision. Israel Del Toro 22:22 You know, I guess it was, for me it was I loved my job. I knew I could teach, I could be prepare these next guys to [be] the next generation operators. Ted Robertson 22:38 You've never stopped being committed. You've never stopped. So it brings you to NCLS. This is the 33rd year for NCLS, and when you speak to cadets here, what message do you want them to take away with them? Senior Master Sgt. Israel Del Toro 22:53 I guess my message more is about that when you're in the military, no matter whatever happens to you, you still have a role to play. Even when I got hurt, did I miss being with my teammates? Yes, but now refocusing, OK, I'm here in this hospital, and I see all these wounded guys here as I guess I'm wounded also, but in my head is like I was still NCO in the Air Force. I still have a job to do. Yes, I'm hurt, I'm wounded, but the job of a leader is, no matter where you're at, is you try and take care of your troops. You try and make things better for them, even if you never see any of the benefits — that is your role. And so that's kind of what I want to leave with these guys that, you know, you're going to always have  challenges throughout your career, but you've always got to remember it's not about you, it's about the guys under you to take care of you. You know, I had a group of cadets yesterday and they were just asking me about leadership. So you know what? The best way to be a great leader is to earn the respect of yourtroops. If you demand it, you're not a leader, but when you earned the respect and they'll die for you, that is the greatest feeling. You know, I gave an example of one of the best moments I had after my injury, is after I got hurt, they sent my replacement, and he comes in and obviously introduce him to the scout team, to the Army company, individuals in leadership, and then the SF team, and all these guys I'm supporting. And the guy comes in like, “Hey, I'm here to replace DT.” And all of them, “You can't replace DT.” And I told that was the best moment that that's the best moment of respect, because I had Army guys saying, “He's our guy.” And that's the thing I told them, it's like, when you get to that moment when your guys say, “Nah, he's our guy,” I was like, “He can't replace him.” That is where you've truly earned the respect of your troops.   Ted Robertson 25:21 Israel, the only word that I can pull out of myself right now for your journey to describe it as “remarkable,” and you continue to give of yourself, and that's a wonderful thing. Your opportunity for a couple of final thoughts here, before we close out.   Senior Master Sgt. Israel Del Toro 25:38 Final thoughts, man, putting me on the spot, aren't you. I guess my final thoughts would be, you can't do it on your own. I'm not here right now, because I did it my own. I did it. I'm never gonna say that I did. I had friends, I had family, I had my wife that were by my side all throughout my journey to medical individuals. And I had those dark times, and I'm going down that spot, that rabbit hole, they were there to pull me out of it. So I think it's like, you know, don't try and do it on your own. We all need help. You know, the goal is, don't be prideful. There's a reason pride is one of the seven deadly sins. But, you know, ask for help, ask for advice. It's not going to hurt you. If anything, it will make you stronger and better. That's parting thoughts for the individuals listening to this. Ted Robertson 26:53 Perfect. Israel “DT” Del Toro, what a privilege to sit with you again. Want to say thank you from all of us for your service and continuing to lead by the example, which is a very rich and broad and deep example. Your story reminds us, and should remind us, that courage doesn't end with just survival. It always continues in service to others. Israel, thank you for being here.   Senior Master Sgt. Israel Del Toro 27:18 Thanks, Ted. I appreciate it. Thanks for having me again.   Ted Robertson 27:21 Israel's story reminds us that crisis and moral injury don't always arrive on a schedule, and that leaders are often expected to navigate those moments without ever having been taught how. That's where our next conversation takes us: into the intentional work of preparing leaders before crisis arrives. Maj. Tara Holmes, welcome to the podcast. It's great to have you with us as part of the National Character and Leadership Symposium.   Maj. Tara Holmes  27:46 Thanks for having me; glad to be here.   Ted Robertson 27:48 You are currently deputy chief of staff here at Headquarters USAFA. You are formerly chief of cadet development for CCLD, the Center for Character and Leadership development. By way of background, you flew.   Maj. Tara Holmes  28:01 So I am a B-52 electronic warfare officer by trade, and then moved over into white jets. So instructed in the in the T-1 and I've kind of been in education and training for, I'd say, since about 2017.   Ted Robertson  28:19 You also hold a Doctorate in Business and Management, and you are an AETC master instructor. I will let you explain AETC.   Maj. Tara Holmes  28:27 Air Education Training Command, that's one of the that's our majcom that's responsible for education and training, and they have a pathway to become a master instructor. So I finished the qualifications for that while I was in white jets and working over at Squadron Officer School.   Ted Robertson  28:46 So let's talk about your work with Task Force Hope. We'll talk about what Task Force Hope is, but you are and have been a developer and facilitator of Task Force Hope, which is a crisis and moral injury leadership workshop.   Maj. Tara Holmes  29:01 Task Force Hope is about providing immediately useful tools to our workshop participants to prepare them to lead through crisis, whether that is no-kidding combat related, or whether that's crisis on the home front, going through stuff in life that's really hard. We work through a series of key concepts and exercises, through storytelling and participant engagement that hopefully provides our participants some self-awareness and some tools to recover as it deals with their relationships.   Ted Robertson  29:39 We talked about this. There's a lot of nuance in what you're teaching these people. There's discernment in it. Who should you talk to, who you should trust with information that you want to share? Because ultimately, some of this becomes a pressure release valve, right?   Maj. Tara Holmes  29:52 Yeah, so one of the key concepts that we talk about is worthiness, right? I think often people feel pressure to not share what they're going through because they don't think their problems are worthy of attention, whether theirs or someone else's. That's one thing that we spend a lot of time on. And like you said, you know, who to who to share with, and at what level, some people are more free with sharing than others, and that's OK. So we work through some frameworks that help illustrate how people can kind of work through those levels, or gain some self-awareness and some clarity around where they fall. Something that is a, you know, deep seated secret for you, maybe something that somebody else is willing to openly share, they just don't see it as that big of a deal. So it's definitely about self-awareness and learning some tools to help relieve some of the pressure and drain on our batteries, as it were, that comes from holding these things in.   Ted Robertson  30:52 People who are attending the workshop are going to learn some things that they may not realize are draining their batteries. You're teaching them to discern what those are, and to be careful to try to avoid those. It sounds like an example to me of things that we don't realize we do, that drains us, right, instead of energizes us.   Maj. Tara Holmes  31:10 So we use the kind of metaphor of a smartphone, right? So there are things that drain us, that are big, that we're taking a lot of energy to conceal the hard things that we're dealing with in our life. But then there's, like, the pesky background apps, there's the things that are always running in the background of our lives that drain our energy without us really even noticing it. You know, so for me as an officer, but also as a mom and a spouse, some of the things that are always draining my batteries are my to-do list, the laundry app, maybe social media apps. Sometimes I've probably spend way too much time reading the news these days. That's kind of always on for me. We have these big things that are draining our batteries, but then we have these like small things that are constantly going on, right? So Task Force Hope is about recognizing what those things are for us and then making a commitment to ourselves to make this space and time to recover.   Ted Robertson  32:09 So that brings us to a really unique place. You kind of function at the intersection of character, leadership and development pretty much every day. So how do you define character when you're responsible for shaping it across an entire Cadet Wing.   Maj. Tara Holmes  32:24 To me, character is the essence of who they are. It is how you show up day after day. It's the habits that you have. That's why, when you do something out of character, people are able to say that. You know, we talk about building character strengths as building blocks towards certain virtues. And virtues is really excellence of character. So it's easy to talk about how to be an excellent athlete, or how to be an excellent academic, right? And that's one of our core values, is being excellent. Well, how do you have excellent character? It's really about leveraging your character strengths in a way that can lead you to be more virtuous, and that's the goal.   Ted Robertson  33:05 You've served, both operationally and as an instructor. Tell me how those things shape the way you think about preparing leaders not just to perform but to endure.   Maj. Tara Holmes  33:19 What comes to mind is the importance of training and building those habits. We're, you know, in the previous question, we talked about it in terms of character. You know, you can, you can use any kind of training. It's about building readiness, right? And being able to build those habits so that when you are faced with a challenge, you have a way to work through the challenge, right? That really came out for me, both operationally and as an instructor. So operationally, you rely on your training to get your job done, and then as an instructor, you're helping others build those habits so that one day when your students are faced with challenges, they can rely on their training as well.   Ted Robertson  34:01 We've talked a bit about your experiences and how they shape the way you think about preparing leaders, not just to perform but to endure. And now let's bring it right down to the direct connection between Task Force Hope and why you are here talking about this program to attendees at NCLS. When we talk about Task Force Hope, it's a program that is really designed to prepare leaders to navigate crisis and recover from both emotional and moral injury. What can you tell me about a gap that a workshop like this fills, that traditional leadership education sometimes or often misses?   Maj. Tara Holmes  34:38 Task Force Hope is preventative in nature. It's training to prevent people from letting their burdens get the best of them so that they can show up. They have the tools to show up fully charged when stuff hits the van. And not only that they do that for themselves, but then they can help their teammates or their subordinates also get there. It's self-awareness, because we all perform self-care differently, and what you need to recharge your batteries is different from the way that I would do it. So it's being intentional and having some tools to be able to identify what works for you and then how to make space in your life, and building that commitment to yourself, to make that space so that the next time that you face a crisis, you're not facing it at 10%, you're full up, you're ready to go. So it's that sustained self-care, if that's what you want to call it. And it's important to say that you know, in a 75-minute session, we're really doing our best to provide exposure to key concepts and these tools. What we hope is that people walk out with the start of something. It's not it's not the end of their work to be done.   Ted Robertson  35:54 How often do you hear the question, “Why didn't I hear this earlier in my career?”   Maj. Tara Holmes  36:00 Every workshop. Last year, after the workshop, we had a 1970-something graduate say that exact thing. For me personally, I had four people say something, you know, “Hey, I was a cadet here in '90-something, '80-something, 2000-something. And, you know, I really wish that I would have had this earlier.” So that's what we're trying to do. We're trying to bring it as early as we can.   Ted Robertson  36:26 OK, so our last question of our visit, if cadets take just one lesson from Task Force Hope and NCLs this year, what is your hope for that lesson to be?   Maj. Tara Holmes  36:39 My hope is that they're worth it. No problem is too big or too small to be dealt with, and like we talked about earlier, I think often people keep things to themselves because they feel like they shouldn't bother others, or there's their supervisors or their teammates with what's going on in their lives. And that's a drain. Like, that's a drain on the system. It eats up your energy, right? But our cadets are worth it. Whatever they're dealing with, big or small, is worthy of being addressed. I hope that's the takeaway, and that we all deal with things, right? We don't always know what other people are dealing with.   Ted Robertson  37:22 Maj. Holmes. Thank you for the work you're doing to prepare future leaders, not just to lead in moments of clarity, but to stand firm in moments of crisis. We appreciate you being here.   Maj. Tara Holmes  37:32 Thanks, Ted.   Ted Robertson  37:33 That focus on preservation, resilience and moral courage brings us to our next conversation, one shaped by combat, captivity and a life of service under the most demanding conditions. Coming up next, my conversation with Maj. Gen. (Ret.) Edward Mechenbier. Gen. Mechenbier, welcome to the podcast. It is a huge honor having you here, sir.   Maj. Gen. Edward Mechenbier 37:56 I hope you feel that way in a half hour so well,   Ted Robertson  37:59 Well, the conversation does promise to be interesting, because your life is… interesting. That was a pregnant pause, sir.   Maj. Gen. Edward Mechenbier 38:07 Yeah, I've enjoyed it. It's different.   Ted Robertson  38:11 Just to sort of frame things, you retired as a major general, and what year was that, sir,   Maj. Gen. Edward Mechenbier 38:15 2004   Ted Robertson  38:16 And you were USAFA Class of '64. You're a Vietnam-era pilot, having flown F-4s, you were shot down on your 113th combat mission, but that was you also your 80th over North Vietnam. OK, prisoner of war. Then for almost those entire six years following that, being shot down. You come with 3,600 flying hours across lots of different aircraft.   Maj. Gen. Edward Mechenbier  38:42 I was privileged fly either for primary capability or for familiarization with 43 different airplanes.   Ted Robertson  38:49 And now you describe yourself as a lifelong advocate for veterans and public service.   Maj. Gen. Edward Mechenbier  38:56 Well, yeah, I mean, I go to a couple prisons in Ohio, and “work with” is probably overstating my role. Veterans who are incarcerated for long periods of time. But my role is just to go there, spend some time, shoot the breeze with them, no agenda, no desired learning objective and let them know that somebody outside knows that they're there.   Ted Robertson  39:19 What I want to do is spend some time in your background. All right, I want to start with combat and captivity and how that tests leadership in its most extreme forms. And this is in course in keeping with the theme of NCLS here, what did character mean to you when circumstances were entirely beyond your control?   Maj. Gen. Edward Mechenbier  39:38 The Vietnamese kept us in small groups of one and two or three guys. I mean, we never really until near the end and later on when we got a little organization. But it got very down, very personal, when at one time, I was in a cell with four guys, three Class of 1964 Air Force Academy graduates and one poor Oklahoma State University graduate, and amongst the four of us, we had a senior ranking officer. And of course, you got the same rank, you go alphabetical. And so we made Ron Bliss the senior ranking officer in our room. We had a communication system. We had guidelines that, you know, which were basically consistent with the code of conduct. You know, name, rank, serial number, date of birth, don't answer further questions. Keep faith with your fellow positions. That was the key. Keep faith. Never do anything that you'd be embarrassed to tell somebody you did.   Ted Robertson  40:34 What you're explaining is how different leadership looks, and even how you describe it, how different it is from command. So now it comes down to trust and accountability and courage, and how do those show up in those conditions?   Maj. Gen. Edward Mechenbier  40:51 It was really a matter of, we always knew we were still in the fight. That was one thing that was with us, and so you just kind of conducted yourself with, OK, I'm not going to let myself be used. Now, we also knew that the more you resisted pushed back, the less likely they were to make you go meet an antiwar delegation or write a confession or do something else like that. So they tend to pick on, if you will, the low-hanging fruit or the easier guy to get to. So we always wanted to set the bar just a little bit out of their reach.   Ted Robertson  41:25 All right, having gone through all of that, it really can change people quite profoundly. So when you look back at it, what leadership lessons stayed with you long after you got out of captivity?   Maj. Gen. Edward Mechenbier  41:39 In the movie Return of Honor. Capt. Mike McGrath, Navy guy, describes the guys in their ability to resist torture and do things. And that's what you learn. Everybody's got a breaking point. If mine's here and somebody else's is there, that doesn't make me better or worse than them. So you learn to appreciate the talents and the weaknesses. If you know the foibles, the cracks in everybody around you and not to exploit them, but to understand them, and then to be the kind of leader that that they need.   Ted Robertson  42:12 Sir, one of the recurring themes when you're discussing leadership with leaders right is knowing something about each of your people so that you can relate to them in a way that that works for them and motivates them.   Maj. Gen. Edward Mechenbier  42:23 Yeah. Mark Welch, who's also a graduate and he is a chief of staff of the Air Force, always had a saying: “If you don't know what's going on, it's because you didn't ask.”   Ted Robertson  42:32 Now we're going to roll all that into your long journey between captivity and your visit here to NCLS this year. When you're speaking to the cadets at this year's event, what's your main hope? What do you hope they understand about courage before they even ever face combat?   Maj. Gen. Edward Mechenbier  42:54 Well, courage is a reaction to a clear and present threat. Nobody knows how they're gonna — know he's gonna say, OK, I'm gonna go to Vietnam and I want to get shot down, and when the Vietnamese capture me, I'm going to give them a middle finger and I'm going to be the meanest bad ass and hardest-to-break prisoner. Yeah, it's how you respond to the to the immediate perception of bodily harm or being used or something else like that. So courage is, yeah, it just happens. It's not something that you can put in a package and say, “OK, I've got courage.” It's how you respond to the situation, because you might respond quite differently than what you think.   Ted Robertson  43:35 And I have to say, you presented your story and you delivered your message in kind of a unique way. You drew from some contemporary references, specifically three clips from a movie that you like, that I was curious. How did you sum up your entire life in three movie clips from Madagascar? How did you do that?   Maj. Gen. Edward Mechenbier  43:57 Well, the three movie clips — when I watched the movie, I was looking at it, I have got two favorite movies. Madagascar is one, and the other is a Kelsey Grammer movie, Down Periscope. I mean, I think that is a perfect study in in leadership. But in the movie Madagascar, the premise was penguins can't fly, but yet it opens up with them applying resource, innovation imagination, and they eventually get this airplane to fly. OK, great. Success. Well, like everything else in life, things go wrong, and you got to have, No. 1, a backup plan, an exit ramp or a control mechanism for the disaster that's pending. So that's the second movie clip we saw. And then the third one was towards the end of the movie, when the crash landing has happened and the skipper asks for an accounting, and he's told that all passengers are accounted for, except two. And he says, that's the number I can live with. And the message there is, you go through life — you're going to have successes, but you're going to have failures, and failure has a cost, and it's not always pleasant, but that's OK, because that's life.   Ted Robertson  45:15 How do you explain how leaders can prepare themselves morally and mentally for moments they can't predict or control.   Maj. Gen. Edward Mechenbier  45:25 Watch movies like Madagascar and Down Periscope. You know, there's a breadth of unintentional, if you will, guidance on how to be a leader, if you know where to look or if you're looking for it. I mean, that's part of the whole progress program at the Academy. Nobody's going to say, OK, here's a scenario, lead these resources to a proper conclusion. It's kind of like, OK, here's the situation. What do we do? What can we do? What can't we do? It's like, in my presentation, I talk about being able to run across a pasture in nine seconds, in 10 seconds, but if the bull can do it, you're in trouble. So you got to realign your thinking, you got to realign your goals and you got to realign the application of resources. So that's the leadership part, right there. It's a realization of what you can and what you can't do. It's a realization of what you, your people, your resources, can and can't do. It's a realization of what the technology you have at your disposal to do your mission can and can't do. So it's all about workarounds and being flexible. And then the other thing is, we live in a world that just seems to be everything's got a prescription and a protocol on exactly how to do everything. Doesn't work that way. You got to be able to go left and right. You got to be able to be a little imaginative.   Ted Robertson  46:42 What parting thought did you leave the cadets with?   Maj. Gen. Edward Mechenbier  46:45 That failure is part of life. It's not death. And I'm part of an organization called American 300 — we go around and talk to young enlisted people and all the services to get them to understand that failure is a learning opportunity. It's not a dagger in the heart, and don't be afraid or ashamed to try, because if you don't, you'll never know what your true potential is. So with the cadets, we close with that last part from the movie Madagascar that basically said, OK, success comes with a price. Be aware and accept it.   Ted Robertson  47:23 All right, we've got to close it out here, but recap, if you would one more time that message that you want cadets to leave here with from having heard you speak.   Maj. Gen. Edward Mechenbier  47:32 You are now a living, breathing, viable, productive part of our United States Air Force. You bring talents that are unique. Apply them, but understand that they're all very transitory, and you have part of a larger community. If you stick with a community rather than the “I did,” “I want,” I have,” you'll go a long way.   Ted Robertson  47:54 All right, and stepping outside of that very briefly for your final thoughts, what would you like to leave listeners with today.   Maj. Gen. Edward Mechenbier  48:01 Be proud of the young men and women who are in our military now, not just those at the Air Force Academy. You know, our whole military structure has changed over the years. You know, it's a dynamic world. You got to be flexible and embrace change. We're so reluctant to change. Change is fine, except when you try to change me, is the old saying, but we all have to change. We have to be part of the world in which we live.     Ted Robertson  48:26 Gen. Mechenbier, I want to thank you from all of us for being here sharing those leadership lessons of yours and a lifetime of service that will continue to shape others — future leaders — for a very, very long time to come. We appreciate you very much.   Maj. Gen. Edward Mechenbier  48:43 Thank you much.   Ted Robertson  48:44 Our final conversation brings us to leadership at the strategic level, where decisions affect institutions, alliances and the nation itself. Capt. Charles Plumb, welcome to the podcast today, sir.   Capt. J. Charles Plumb  48:56 Thanks, Ted. Appreciate being here.   Ted Robertson  48:59 It is a privilege to have you. You retired as a Navy captain in 1991 and you have not slowed down, not one inch since. We're going to talk a little bit about the work that you're doing in some very interesting spaces. And what informs all of that. Naval Academy, Class of '64.   Capt. J. Charles Plumb  49:15 Yep, the Great Class of '64.     Ted Robertson  49:17 The great —that's how you express class pride?   Capt. J. Charles Plumb  49:20 Everybody knows the Great Class of '64.   Ted Robertson  49:23 So you are an Annapolis man.   Capt. J. Charles Plumb  49:25 I am, in fact.   Ted Robertson  49:26 No doubt. And a pilot. You flew F-4 Phantoms, and you are a Vietnam-era pilot. You spent most of your time over North Vietnam. Sometimes you got sent to South Vietnam, depending on what was going on. But you said that you have flown 74 combat missions.   Capt. J. Charles Plumb  49:45 Actually 74 and a half, Ted. I have one more takeoff and I have landings.   Ted Robertson  49:50 We should remember that, because it's a very important part of your life we haven't talked about yet. Since you got out of captivity, and then you retired a few years later, you became a published author and a speaker, and as such, you have been to every state, several countries, 5,000 presentations you've delivered in the leadership and character development space. Is there any reason you should not be here at NCLS?   Capt. J. Charles Plumb  50:24 Well, I appreciate that. You know, this is a great symposium, and I'm really proud to contribute to it.   Ted Robertson  50:32 Captain, you are a former POW.   Capt. J. Charles Plumb  50:36 Yes, I was shot down on my 75th mission and captured, tortured and spent the next 2,103 days in communist prison camps.   Ted Robertson  50:49 You said you got moved around a lot.   Capt. J. Charles Plumb  50:52 We did. I was in six different camps, and some of those camps more than once. We never really understood why. We kind of suspected that they wanted to try to deny any fraternization with their guards, and they wanted to keep us on our toes, because they recognized that being military guys, we were going to have leadership, and we were going to have organization and community and we were going to organize, to fight them, and they didn't want that. So they moved us around and kind of shuffled us up, which didn't work. We always had a military organization in every camp that I ever went to.   Ted Robertson  51:31 You found ways to support each other. You found ways to have a leadership structure, even in captivity.   Capt. J. Charles Plumb  51:39 We were all fighter pilots or air crews and most of us were we, you know, we had 10 Air Force Academy grads from '64 in five Naval Academy grads from '64 and so we had in a lot of other academy grads. I don't remember how many, but probably 70 total academy grads. And so, you know, we were, we were dedicated. We were lifers. We were, you know, we were very focused guys, which helped out a lot that we knew a lot about military leadership.   Ted Robertson  52:11 You grew up in the Midwest, and you married a Midwestern girl.   Capt. J. Charles Plumb  52:15 I did, my high school sweetheart the day after I graduated from Annapolis, we got married in the chapel, and my buddies were holding up their swords as we came out of the chapel. So it was a beautiful day.   Ted Robertson  52:27 Let's go back to how you found your way to the Naval Academy.   Capt. J. Charles Plumb  52:32 I was a farm kid from Kansas. Never seen the ocean, never been out of the four states of Kansas, Nebraska, Iowa, Missouri. Never been in an airplane, and I needed an education. Found that the Naval Academy offered me an education.   Ted Robertson  52:50 Outside of Air Force Academy circles, you probably already know that we think of, you know, salty sea dog sailors when we think of people going in the Navy, but you chose aviation.   Capt. J. Charles Plumb  53:02 I did. As a kid, I would see these Piper Cubs fly over and I was fascinated by flight, and wondered if I'd ever be able to ride in an airplane. That was my thought when I was a kid. I didn't have any hopes of ever being a pilot, you know, let alone a fighter pilot. That was, I was out of the realm. Nobody, as I grew up, ever told me that I could do that, or I should do that, or, you know, it would be a hope of mine to ever pilot an airplane. But I went to the Naval Academy and found out that was one of the options, and I took advantage of that option.   Ted Robertson  53:43 Yeah, and it led you, of course, to over North Vietnam, and the rest is that part of your history   Capt. J. Charles Plumb  53:51 Launched on the aircraft carrier Kitty Hawk on my wife's birthday, the 5th of November, wave goodbye to her, and promised her I'd be back in eight months. I didn't make it.   Ted Robertson  54:04 Hard. Very hard story to hear. Let's talk about all of that informing your presentation now, again, 5,000 of these delivered in the leadership and character development space, but you talk a lot about, in your presentation — and you keynoted here at NCLS — the mental game side of this, the integrity, the choices that you have to make, and character that sort of frames all of that.   Capt. J. Charles Plumb  54:38 My message to the cadets, and really to most of my audiences, is around challenge and adversity. And I tell the cadets that they work awfully hard trying to get a degree. They study, they go to computers, they read books all to get a degree. And what I point out to them is that more important than the degree that they will get from the Air Force Academy is a character that they build while they are here. That the integrity first, you know, is part of their motto. And if, in fact, they can learn and live that integrity, if they can learn and live the commitment that they have, if they can learn in and live these kind of ethereal things, the things that you can't measure, things you can't define, the things that, you know, that crop up in your in your mind, in the back of your mind, are more important than the lessons they learn from a computer. And so that's kind of my message.   Ted Robertson  55:49 You know, we're in a leadership laboratory here. The art and the science is character development. And you're talking about a kind of character that leads people to make good decisions and make those decisions with integrity in mind. How did that play into your captivity and getting you through that?   Capt. J. Charles Plumb  56:09 You know, of course, I studied leadership at the Naval Academy, and I think that my period of experience more than teaching me anything, it validated what I had learned. And the whole idea — and I love the fact that this is called, you know, the Character and Leadership Symposium, because lots of times you see leadership without character, that's a negative kind of leadership. And if a leader does not have character, he doesn't last very long, and he's not very effective. And so if you can keep your character up front, the leadership can follow easily. And that's pretty much what we had in the prison camps. Several of the qualities of leadership that I promote are the things that almost came natural in a prison camp. First of all, we had to find a focus, a reason. We had to find, you know — and that was developed by our leadership in the prison camp. Return with honor — that was our motto, return with honor. And we all rallied around that.   Ted Robertson  57:22 So all of that said, you're standing here in front of a really big group of people as a keynote speaker, lot of cadets, mostly cadets, yeah.   Capt. J. Charles Plumb  57:31 Now there were cadets. I'm speaking on a panel with Ed Mechenbier, my good buddy, and we're on a panel with mostly cadets. The first presentation, the keynote was by invitation only. So there were a number of civilians in the audience, number of cadets. There were Naval Academy midshipmen in my audience today. And we had ROTC people, and, you know, from all over the country. So it was quite a wide audience.   Ted Robertson  58:04 Quite a wide audience. And so if we were just focusing on what you leave with cadets, what do you want them to take away from their experience today?   Capt. J. Charles Plumb  58:15 I hope they understand my message, that more important than the degree that they graduate with, is the character that they graduate with, and the importance of the integrity that that they learned here, because that was vital in the prison camp, is integrity. We had to have each other's back, and when we when we finally were released, we refused to be released until all the sick, injured and enlisted men had gone home, and it was a question of integrity, is a question that this is the right thing to do. It's not the easy thing to do. Largely, the integrity thing to do is not the easiest thing to do, and that's what I wanted to leave with the cadets. In addition, I want them to know that regardless of what situation they're in, they still have a choice, and their choice is the way they respond to the surrounding adversity situation that they're in.   Ted Robertson  59:21 An Annapolis grad of '64, Midwest kid from Kansas who makes it into the cockpit, and like you said, 74 and a half flights, then some time in captivity, then to a published author with thousands of presentations all over the country, and some in in other countries. What final thoughts would you like to leave today, sir?   Capt. J. Charles Plumb  59:47 Well, you know, I think I've already told you, you know, you're a great interviewer, Ted, and I appreciate your questions. I think, finally, this whole idea of self-determination and I think that we all, and not just the cadets, but graduates and families and business people, families. You know that we all have choices, and sometimes when we deny the choice and give up that ability to make our life better for ourselves. And you know, we do it sometimes even when we're not even thinking about it. It's just automatic to blame somebody else for the problem, and in doing so, we give away that choice.   Ted Robertson  1:00:34 Don't give away the choice. Yeah, build that character and stick by your integrity all the time. Capt. J. Charles Plumb, what a privilege it is to meet you, sir. Glad that you're here at NCLs and keynoting like you are, and I do hope that our paths cross again.   Capt. J. Charles Plumb  1:00:52 Ted, thank you very much. I appreciate your willingness to tell my story. Thanks for that.   Ted Robertson  1:00:57 You're welcome, sir. Thank you. Ted Robertson Close As we've heard throughout these conversations, courage isn't a single moment. It's a lifelong practice, from cadets just beginning their journey to leaders shaped by combat and crisis to senior commanders responsible for forces and futures. Character is tested when certainty disappears and it's revealed by how we choose to lead. That's the challenge of the National Character and Leadership Symposium, and it's a challenge that extends far beyond these walls. I'm Ted Robertson, thank you for joining me for our Long Blue Line Podcast Network coverage of the 33rd National Character and Leadership Symposium. This podcast was recorded on Saturday, Feb. 21, 2026.         The Long Blue Line Podcast Network is presented by the U.S. Air Force Academy Association & Foundation      

Send us a textPeaches and Trent break down the growing fallout around Gen. “Fat Tony” Bauerfeind, his short tenures at AFSOC and the Air Force Academy, and why leadership failures don't happen in a vacuum. From berating cadets in locker rooms to misreading SOCOM priorities and alienating donors, staff, and subordinates, this episode walks through how ego, insulation, and ignoring the chain of command can wreck organizations fast. The conversation expands into general officer culture, why the Army and Marines produce different leaders than the Air Force and Navy, and how credibility is built—or destroyed—by shared hardship. Add in a side discussion on AI in cockpits, human-machine teaming, pilot override authority, and why trust still matters more than tech, and you get a classic Ones Ready mix of hard truths, humor, and uncomfortable accountability.⏱️ Timestamps: 00:00 Ones Ready intro and sponsor chatter 02:00 OTS Alabama registration reminder 04:30 Fat Tony, AFSOC, and short command tours 07:00 USAFA leadership complaints and cadet treatment 10:00 Berating subordinates vs fixing the chain 12:30 Why yelling at the bottom never works 15:00 Flying authority, CV-22 incident, and Q-3 fallout 18:30 Why cadets aren't the problem 21:00 SOCOM priorities vs DEI messaging 24:00 How leaders misread their environment 27:00 Fragile ego and insulation at senior ranks 30:00 Army and Marine leadership pipelines contrasted 34:00 PT credibility and leading from the front 37:00 National Guard DC shooting and Purple Heart criteria 41:00 Weapons carry, chambered rounds, and training gaps 48:00 Super Bowl flyover and airpower optics 54:00 AI in cockpits and auto-eject concerns 58:30 Human-machine teaming and pilot-trained AI 01:01:20 Closing thoughts and wrap-up

Send us a textPeaches runs a solo Daily Drop Ops Brief covering multiple days of military news after a short recording gap. The episode opens with a posthumous Medal of Honor awarded to Staff Sgt. Michael Alice for shielding a Polish soldier during a 2013 Taliban attack—followed by a blunt reminder of why people actually serve. From a 10th Mountain Division deployment to CENTCOM, Golden Knights season prep, and the rising age of Army recruits, the brief moves into jungle medicine training in Hawaii, artillery and demolitions live fire at Schofield Barracks, and Arctic testing of small unmanned aerial systems where batteries and cold collide. Peaches also breaks down Navy deployments, changes to naval aviation training pipelines, Russian women detained at Camp Pendleton and why honeypots are real, a $700 3D-printed Marine Corps drone, AH-1Z missile upgrades, Air Force no-notice ORIs returning, micro-nuclear reactors at Eielson, cheaper cruise missile tests, housing overhauls in the UK, and why USAFA Superintendent Gen. Tony Bauerfeind's departure matters. The episode closes with Space Force warfighting expansion, drone-pilot mental health studies, and renewed Iran nuclear talks. Context, experience, and zero sugarcoating.⏱️ Timestamps: 00:00 Ones Ready intro and Daily Drop setup 01:00 Medal of Honor for SSG Michael Alice 02:40 Why people actually serve 03:40 10th Mountain Division deployment to CENTCOM 04:30 Golden Knights 2026 season prep 05:10 Rising average age of Army recruits 06:10 Jungle medicine training in Hawaii 07:30 Artillery and demolitions at Schofield Barracks 08:30 Arctic sUAS testing and battery reality 10:10 USS Truxtun deploys to Middle East 11:00 T-45 replacement training concerns 12:30 Russian women detained at Camp Pendleton 14:00 Honeypots explained 15:40 $700 Marine Corps 3D-printed drone 17:00 AH-1Z long-range missile upgrade 18:00 Operator Training Summit Alabama plug 19:40 Air Force no-notice ORIs return 21:00 Micro-reactor program at Eielson AFB 23:00 Rapid cruise missile live-fire test 24:00 UK Air Force housing refurbishment 25:30 USAFA Superintendent departure preview 28:00 Space Force warfighting role expanSupport the showJoin this channel to get access to perks: HEREBuzzsprout Subscription page: HERE Register for our Operator Training Summit: OperatorTrainingSummit.comCollabs:Ones Ready - OnesReady.com 18A Fitness - Promo Code: ONESREADY ATACLete - Follow the URL (no promo code): ATACLeteDanger Close Apparel - Promo Code: ONESREADYDFND Apparel - Promo Code: ONESREADYHoist - Promo Code: ONESREADY...

SLEERICKETS is a podcast about poetry and other intractable problems. My book Midlife now exists. Buy it here, or leave it a rating here or hereFor more SLEERICKETS, subscribe to SECRET SHOW, join the group chat, and send me a poem for Listener Crit!Leave the show a rating here (actually, just do it on your phone, it's easier). Thanks!Wear SLEERICKETS t-shirts and hoodies. They look good!SLEERICKETS is now on YouTube!For a frank, anonymous critique on SLEERICKETS, subscribe to the SECRET SHOW and send a poem of no more 25 lines to sleerickets [at] gmail [dot] com Some of the topics mentioned in this episode:– Pre-order Brian's book The Optimists! It's so good!– Let me know if you'd like a review copy of my forthcoming chapbook The Soft Black Stars: sleerickets [at] gmail [dot] com– The Christian Poetry Comeback by Paul J. Pastor– Can Poetry Matter? by Dana Gioia– Poetry as Enchantment by Dana Gioia– The Colosseum Book of Contemporary Narrative Verse by Sunil Iyengar– Bill Hicks– Air Force Academy cancels lecture after discovering speaker disparaged Trump by Mary Shinn– CC hosts speaker whose appearance at USAFA was canceled by Ashley Eberhardt– Intimacy by Paisley Rekdal– To Crawl Under the Earth: The Persistence of Expansive Poetry by Brian BrodeurFrequently mentioned names:– Joshua Mehigan– Shane McCrae– A. E. Stallings– Ryan Wilson– Morri Creech– Austin Allen– Jonathan Farmer– Zara Raab– Amit Majmudar– Ethan McGuire– Coleman Glenn– Chris Childers– Alexis Sears– JP Gritton– Alex Pepple– Ernie Hilbert– Joanna Pearson– Matt Wall– Steve Knepper – Helena Feder– David YezziOther Ratbag Poetry Pods:Poetry Says by Alice AllanI Hate Matt Wall by Matt WallVersecraft by Elijah Perseus BlumovRatbag Poetics By David Jalal MotamedAlice: In Future PostsBrian: @BPlatzerCameron: Minor TiresiasMatthew: sleerickets [at] gmail [dot] comMusic by ETRNLArt by Daniel Alexander Smith

Need financing for your next investment property? Visit: https://www.academyfund.com/ Want to join us in Tampa, FL on January 26th & 27th? Visit: https://www.10xvets.com/events ____ Travis Wittick is the founder of Academy Endeavors, a coaching company that helps high school students navigate the competitive and complex admissions process for U.S. Service Academies and ROTC scholarships. A graduate of the U.S. Air Force Academy and former Air Force hospital administrator, Travis first discovered his passion for mentorship as an Academy Liaison Officer helping students prepare their applications while still on active duty. After transitioning to the civilian sector and earning his MBA from Duke, Travis launched Academy Endeavors in 2020 leaving his corporate job and betting on his vision full-time. Since then, the company has grown steadily, with an 85% success rate and 40–50% year-over-year growth. Travis and his growing team of Academy graduate coaches now support families across the country with application strategy, essay development, interview prep, and ongoing guidance from freshman year to appointment day. In this episode of the SABM podcast, Scott chats with Travis about: The Mission Behind Academy Endeavors: Helping families gain clarity, confidence, and strategic support throughout the service academy admissions journey. From Side Hustle to Full-Time Impact: How Travis made the leap from corporate America to founder and gained traction during COVID. A Coach's Perspective: Why application success starts with storytelling, mentorship, and early preparation. Growing a Values-Driven Team: His vision for hiring Academy grads as assistant coaches and culture carriers. Academy vs. ROTC Options: Helping students and families make informed decisions that lead to service and scholarship opportunities even outside the academy path.   Timestamps: 00:36 Travis's Background and Academy Experience 08:06 Launching Academy Endeavors 11:17 Early Success and COVID-19 Impact 13:46 Ideal Start Time for Academy Preparation 23:45 Indirect Benefits for College Applications 34:25 Hiring and Team Expansion Connect with Travis: LinkedIn | Travis Wittick www.academyendeavors.com support@academyendeavors.com  If you found value in today's episode, don't keep it to yourself—share it with a colleague or friend who could benefit. And if you're a Service Academy graduate ready to elevate your business, we'd love for you to join our community and get started today. Make sure you never miss an episode subscribe now and help support the show: Apple Podcasts Spotify Leave us a 5-star review! A special thank you to Travis for joining me this week. Until next time! -Scott Mackes, USNA '01  

Leadership demands grit, clarity and conviction. SUMMARY On Long Blue Leadership, Congressman August Pfluger '00 reflects on these qualities through his experiences at the U.S. Air Force Academy, in the cockpit and as part of the U.S. House of Representatives. His story challenges every leader to ask where courage is calling them to go next. SHARE THIS PODCAST LINKEDIN  |  FACEBOOK    CONGRESSMAN PFLUGER'S TOP 10 LEADERSHIP TAKEAWAYS Courageous career leaps require conviction, timing and faith. Pfluger left active duty at 19 years and four months — a highly unconventional choice — demonstrating that major pivots sometimes require stepping into uncertainty. Work ethic is a lifelong differentiator. He emphasizes that he has never been “the best,” but has always been willing to outwork anyone. Hard work + grit consistently opened doors. Failure and setbacks shape long-term success. Missed opportunities at USAFA and earlier career disappointments taught him timing, resilience and long-term perspective. Leadership is transferable across domains. His fighter pilot and command experience directly enabled his political success — planning, debrief culture and thick skin all mapped over perfectly. Credibility requires deep study and prioritization. You cannot master everything; leaders must choose focus areas and know them cold so others trust their expertise. Humility, credibility and approachability are foundational leadership traits. These principles translate powerfully to Congress and team leadership. Family and faith must anchor leadership. His family's summer crisis reframed his priorities: “None of this matters if you don't take care of your family.” The nation needs more military and Academy graduates in public leadership. He stresses that only four USAFA grads have ever served in Congress — and more are needed to restore civility and mission-focused service. The U.S. Air Force and U.S. Space Force are under-resourced relative to global threats. Pfluger advocates vigorously for rebalancing defense spending to meet modern challenges. Self-reflection is critical to growth. Leaders must ask: How do I see myself? How do others see me? If those don't align, adjust the work ethic, mindset or behaviors accordingly.   CHAPTERS 00:00 — Introduction & Biography 01:44 — Opening Remarks 01:47 — Leaving Active Duty at 19 Years and 4 Months 04:06 — Why Run for Office? 05:40 — Family, Faith & Influences 07:14 — Representing His Hometown District 08:29 — Learning to Represent a District 11:07 — Work Ethic and USAFA Foundations 12:22 — Failure, Setbacks & Long-Term Rewards 15:10 — Unexpected Assignments Becoming Career High Points 17:24 — Pentagon, Fellowship & NSC 19:49 — USAFA Grads in Congress 21:03 — Role of the Board of Visitors 23:24 — Key Focus Areas for the Board of Visitors 25:11 — Top National Security Challenges 27:13 — Balancing Congress, Leadership, and Family 29:01 — Leadership Style & Decision-Making 30:40 — Humble, Credible, Approachable 33:38 — Building Credibility as a Younger Leader 34:43 — What's Next: A More United Country 37:29 — Daily Habits for Growth 39:37 — Advice for Emerging Leaders 41:24 — Final Reflections & Call to Action 43:45 — Closing Thoughts & Outro   ABOUT CONGRESSMAN PFLUGER BIO U.S. Rep. August Pfluger '00 is serving his third term in the U.S. House of Representatives. He represents 20 counties in Texas' 11th Congressional District. After graduating from the U.S Air Force Academy, he served in the Air Force and Air Force Reserve for 25 years as an F-22 and F-15 pilot with over 300 combat hours. In Congress, he is chairman of the Republican Study Committee, the largest caucus on Capitol Hill. He is a member of the House Energy and Commerce Committee and chairman of the House Homeland Security Committee on Counterterrorism and Intelligence. CONNECT WITH THE CONGRESSMAN LINKEDIN HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES   CONNECT WITH THE LONG BLUE LINE PODCAST NETWORK TEAM Ted Robertson | Producer and Editor:  Ted.Robertson@USAFA.org Send your feedback or nominate a guest: socialmedia@usafa.org   Ryan Hall | Director:  Ryan.Hall@USAFA.org  Bryan Grossman | Copy Editor:  Bryan.Grossman@USAFA.org Wyatt Hornsby | Executive Producer:  Wyatt.Hornsby@USAFA.org      ALL PAST LBL EPISODES  |  ALL LBLPN PRODUCTIONS AVAILABLE ON ALL MAJOR PODCAST PLATFORMS     FULL TRANSCRIPT OUR SPEAKERS Guest, Rep. August Pfluger '00  |  Host, Lt. Col. (Ret.) Naviere Walkewicz '99   Naviere Walkewicz 0:00 Welcome to Long Blue Leadership, the podcast where we share insights on leadership through the lives and experiences of Air Force Academy graduates. I'm Naviere Walkewicz, Class of '99. In this edition of Long Blue Leadership, we're honored to welcome a distinguished leader whose career spans military service, national security and public office, Congressman August Pfluger is a proud graduate of the United States Air Force Academy, Class of 2000, and currently represents the 11th Congressional District of Texas in the U.S. House of Representatives. Before entering Congress, Congressman Pfluger served for nearly two decades in the United States Air Force, rising to the rank of colonel. He is currently a member of the Air Force Reserve as an F-15 and F-22 fighter pilot. He logged over 300 combat hours in defense of our nation. He has also served as a member of the National Security Council, bringing strategic insight to some of the most complex global threats we face today. Since taking office in 2021 Congressman Pfluger has remained deeply committed to strengthening our national defense. He currently serves on the House Energy and Commerce Committee and the House Homeland Security Committee to critical platforms from which he continues to represent and lead. He is the chairman of the Republican Study Committee and serves as the chairman of the Air Force Academy's Board of Visitors, appointed to the BOV by the speaker of the house in 2023 and elected by his colleagues to serve as chair. Whether in the halls of Congress or in the cockpit, Congressman Pfluger's career has been defined by a steadfast commitment to courageous service and leadership. Congressman Pfluger, welcome to Long Blue Leadership. Rep. August Pfluger 1:44 Thank you, Naviere. It's honor to be here with you.   Naviere Walkewicz 1:47 Well, we are so glad to have you. And there's something that I want to jump right into, because it really occurred to me how odd this is, but you served for nearly two decades, and when I say nearly two decades in the Air Force, 19 years and four months, and then you pulled the plug, you didn't go to retirement right then. Can we talk about that a little bit? Rep. August Pfluger 2:09 Well, this is not something that most financial advisers would advise you of doing. And I'll tell you, this was a journey in faith, because at almost 20 years. September of 2019, we made a decision, my wife and I made a decision to run for Congress, which meant that we got out of the active duty, joined the Reserve, and started a campaign, something that just a month prior, we had absolutely no intention of doing, and had not even talked about doing. Running for office was something that was always of interest, but certainly not at 19 years and four months. So the opportunity came up, had a couple of phone calls from friends and family to say that the representative who represented my hometown and where I grew up was retiring after 16 years, and a lot of factors. And I'll really take you down this faith journey, a lot of factors happened that we couldn't ignore. And we literally moved back to my hometown of San Angelo that I had not lived in for over 20 years, and started a campaign, which, as you can imagine, was, I mean, it took a lot of courage for my wife, from my family, three little girls, who we uprooted and went through this. But I'm so glad that we did it. But it wasn't without, you know, I can say anxiety and just, you know, the fear, the unknown maybe, and not knowing exactly what would happen. So when you say and use the words, we burned the ships. That was the moment in time that we literally burned the ships and ran a campaign with every piece of our heart and soul. Naviere Walkewicz 3:48 Wow. Well, let's talk about that a little bit, because, you know, we have listeners that make these pivotal moments in their careers. They make these decisions that really shaped them. What was it about that time, other than the incumbent was going to retire. Like, why you? Why then, you know? Let's talk about that a little bit more. Rep. August Pfluger 4:06 Well, this is pre-Covid. And the thought of running for office always sounds good. You know, if you have that interest, you're like, “OK, that'd be great.” Well, then when you kind of get down to the brass tax that you're going to have to put in 14- to 16-hour days and learn how to talk to people about what's important in this district that then it kind of changes things. But honestly, there were signs and things that pointed me and my wife in this direction that we couldn't ignore. And when you look at this type of district, I mean, it's really, in the past 100 years, there's only been about six representatives. So it's not one of those things you say, “Well, maybe we'll wait for next time.” The opportunity was there, there was a window of time. It was about 30 days where we had to make a decision to literally move from northern Virginia back to Texas and start a whole new career. And ended doing so forego the pension for what would now be five or six years, because I've had to work as a reservist to, you know, kind of get back to that point. So there was a financial piece to it. There was a career that was, was going very well that, you know, maybe, are we giving that up? And what happens if we don't win? And then, you know, all these unknowns. So I will say it was, it was definitely the biggest professional decision that I've ever made in my career. Naviere Walkewicz 5:40 So you talked about some of your family members — you had phone calls. It sounds like, your faith and your family are a big part of your decision making. And, when you go forward with things, I think you've talked about your grandfather having been someone that inspired you to go into the Air Force. You know, who are those key players in your family that have really inspired you in your big leadership decisions. Rep. August Pfluger 6:02 Yes, you're right. I had two grandfathers that served in World War II. One was a pilot, and that that led me to make the first decision to go to the Air Force Academy. And that stayed with me. We had nobody in my family who was in politics. I mean, not a single person. In fact, a lot of my family, I had several great uncles and different family members that I'm close to, and they said, “What?” Like, ”What are — you sure you want to do this? And why? Don't you have a really good Air Force career and you've been able to, you know, rise in the ranks and all the things that you've tried to do?” But I honestly — it was kind of a word of wisdom to say, “If you're going to do this, have some good reasons.” Like, “Why do you want to do this?” And the district that I get to represent in my hometown, we have military bases, agriculture and energy, and I love all three of those things. And I think of those as national security-level entities that really dovetail very nicely with my first part of my professional career. Naviere Walkewicz 7:14 That makes sense. So it really was an extension — this new path in your journey was really an extension of what you had done in uniform and active duty and now being able to give it back to your hometown district and the patrons in there as well. Rep. August Pfluger 7:30 Absolutely. And in the campaign I talked about how important it was to be able to provide our own food. We have a lot of cattle ranchers there that are in my district, that you don't want to be dependent on some other country, especially an adversarial country, for your food needs. And the same thing for energy production: that you can't be dependent for energy needs on your adversaries. So those were things that I was able to really talk about, and I mean, oh my gosh, after I actually was elected and got into office, I mean, they became front and center and still are of that discussion. And I think that was the really interesting piece about having been deployed. We were stationed all over the world, almost seven years outside of the United States, on three different continents, and to be able to tie it together and kind of bring that back home and communicate why this place where I grew up and now where I live and where I represent is so important to our national security? Naviere Walkewicz 8:29 Well, you talked a little bit about earlier, about you weren't sure if you were going to get elected, and then when you did, you had to go out and talk to people and really understand the challenges. What is that journey like when it's completely new, right? It's not the same. It's you're not getting into a cockpit. You're not an instructor pilot now. Now you are — you're representing all of them. How do you how do you approach that new path? Because I think that's something when our leaders take this leap of faith and they're looking at, well, how do I approach it? It's completely different from anything I've done. I think they'd like to know how you did it so well. Rep. August Pfluger 8:59 Well, thanks for the question. It was a huge challenge in being a squadron commander, having been an instructor pilot or a mission commander, and having led in actual combat, that that was everything. I mean, I didn't know anything about politics, but what I did know was how to map out a plan and how to put the pieces and parts together. And I knew that nobody was going to outwork me. I mean, come on, you know, when you have a SAMI on Saturday morning, you got to wake up and make your bed and do all the things to get that weekend pass. I mean, you're going to work hard. And so I knew that I had a competitive advantage on the work ethic and the ability to plan and so really, the thing that I realize now, now six years later, is that I think people — what they really appreciated was that I wasn't a career politician, that the things that I was saying and campaigning on were like true passions, and they weren't empty promises. I told them this is what I'm going to do, and I'm proud to report I've done every single one of those things that I told them that I would do, and it's because we were instructed so well, both at school and then as members of the active-duty Air Force about how to follow through and be persistent and just carry through with what you said you're going to do. I mean, integrity is a big piece of this, but I will tell you also that now staying in touch after being elected, elected, I travel throughout these 20 counties all the time, and you have to have some thick skin, because you're going to get some feedback from people that is not always flattering, and they're going to ask you, “Well, why did you vote this way, or what happened here, and why are you not doing this? And this is expensive.” And, I mean, so you have to be willing to take that feedback, which, by the way, sitting in a fighter pilot debrief — I mean, that was the perfect training for having thick skin, to understand that what people are trying to tell you: Is it critical? Without substance? That you really need to listen to them and try to solve these problems? Naviere Walkewicz 11:07 So earlier, you had talked about, I think there are these things that you did at the Academy. No one is going to outwork you have. You always been that type of person, someone that, you know, just kind of works really hard. Or is that something that you kind of developed at the Academy. Rep. August Pfluger 11:21 I developed it at the Academy. But I would say I came in with a with a good work ethic and then was challenged by our classmates, who are amazing, you know? It's like, “Oh my gosh, I'm really not that smart and not that fast and not that… you know, whatever,” because you see all these amazing people. But yes, work ethic was, I mean, I look at it now, having administered how many nominations to service academies? I mean, dozens and dozens of kids that I've gotten a chance to work with over the past five years who are absolutely incredible. I'm like, I don't know if I could get in at this point in time, because they're just incredible. And I had to work very hard at everything I ever did, everything I ever achieved, was because of hard work. It wasn't because I was the best. It was because I just, at the end of the day, worked very hard to get it. I think that's something that's a lesson that we learned during four years at the Academy, but it served me very well in this profession. Naviere Walkewicz 12:22 Was there a particular time at the Academy where you worked really hard and it didn't go your way? And, you know, how did you overcome that? Because I think sometimes the outcome is, “If I if I give it all and I work really hard, I'm going to get to where I want to go.” And if that wasn't the case, how did that actually change the trajectory or shape you? Rep. August Pfluger 12:42 There were multiple times at the Academy that you work hard for something. I mean, I came in as a recruited athlete, had some injuries, and so didn't get a chance to finish all four years that that was hard to go through that process, and it just didn't work out. And or you're just not good enough. And then that was the case too for me, on the football team. But they're just better people, which is awesome and that, but that shaped who I am now, because it is not just about how hard you work. That's a huge piece of it. But you also have to have good timing. You have to have some luck. You have to be in the right place and have been brought up by the right people. And when the when the opportunity strikes you, you've got to be able to take advantage of that timing to do that. And that those lessons — I absolutely remember that there was one instance where I really, really wanted to go to do this exchange program in Egypt, and they were going to bring some of the political science department over there. Well, apparently my grades were not in the right area to be selected for this program. I think I was an alternate or something, unless that's good, that's — it's not nothing. But I was very disappointed, because I thought I worked hard, you know, maybe not hard enough on the grades, but had worked hard to be a part of the conversation, to go. Well, didn't get a chance to do it. So always had that in the back of my mind. Well, I went to Egypt, but it was as a congressman. I led a congressional delegation of six or seven members. We met with the president of Egypt and had very serious conversations about the negotiation for what Gaza has now with the peace deal that we have gotten to and had a, you know, went to the president's palace, got to sit down right next to him and talk to him for over an hour. So I always kept that in the back of my mind that I was going to Egypt one day. Naviere Walkewicz 14:37 That's right. And honestly, you worked really, really hard. You didn't get there, but it kept you — kept that fire going, because you knew at some point you're going to, so it did end up working out, in that case, for sure. You know, one of the things that I find really interesting and fascinating about you is, as you talk about these different experiences you've had, you said they've shaped you. And when you're in the military, can you share a time when you maybe we're in a position that it wasn't what you'd hoped for. You thought it was going to be, but you found it to be incredibly rewarding. Was there anything in that kind of space that happened to you? Rep. August Pfluger 15:10 Yes, several times. You know you want things, you think you want things, and then it doesn't work out. You don't get selected. And always in the back of my mind, every young lieutenant wants to be a weapons officer wants to then be a squadron commander of a fighter squadron, and that's just the competitive side of this. And I was no different when it came time to select who the next squadron commanders were going to be. I'll never forget: My operations group commander came to be and he said, “Well, we got a problem. We have six really talented lieutenant colonels. You're all promoted below the zone, and we have four squadrons, so we're going to have to figure out a Plan B for a couple of you, and I've got something in mind for you.” He said, “I think that you should go be a deployed squadron, commander of an OSS, an operational support squadron.” He said, “We've got a war going on, a conflict with ISIS, and you'd be great.” Well, that's not exactly an easy conversation to go home and to tell your spouse: “Oh, I just got told that I was going to deploy. I'm not going to be a fighter squadron commander here. I'm going to go somewhere else, and I'll be gone a year.” So that was hard, but oh my goodness, what an experience professionally. Obviously, I missed my family, but this was the height of the conflict against ISIS. I had hundreds of people that I got a chance to work with, command, flying combat missions, doing something that mattered, working with our international partners. You know, we were on an Emirati base, and so I worked with the Emiratis on a daily basis, because we had almost 20 different weapon systems, 20 different aircraft there and it was the highlight of my professional career. So God had a plan. It worked out much better than I could have ever engineered, and it turned out — minus the fact that I had to be gone for a year; obviously, nobody likes that — but it turned out to be the best professional year of my Air Force career. Naviere Walkewicz 17:13 I find that really interesting because that — so would that have been the last kind of position you held before going into the move for Congress? Is that correct? Rep. August Pfluger 17:24 You know, actually, I came back — was PCSed to the Pentagon, worked for the chief of staff of the Air Force, General Goldfein, OK, went to a year of War College equivalent in D.C., a fellowship program, and then was assigned to the White House, to the National Security Council, for just about two and a half months before we made — three months before we made the decision to run for Congress. Naviere Walkewicz 17:49 So just a couple things happened after that. [Laughs]. What an amazing run, and the amazing leaders that you got to work with. So was that experience that when you were deployed as a squadron commander and then coming back, did that help shape your thoughts specifically to the Congress role, because you talked about the very three important things, right? Energy, you know, national security and there was one more… and agriculture. Thank you. And so, you know, did that all kind of get settled in when you were in that transition piece from, you know, squadron commander, to your time at the Pentagon in the White House area. Rep. August Pfluger 18:26 Absolutely, I had a year as a deployed squadron commander, came back and worked a year at the Pentagon, which I didn't know how lucky that was. Most people get there two or three years, but work directly for the chief of staff. Heard all of the conversations between Gen. Goldfein and Secretary Heather Wilson and then had a year where I studied at a think tank on Middle East policy. It could not have been a better education with a little bit of time in the White House to prepare me to run for Congress. You look back on that, you go, “Oh, so that's why.” “Oh, these steps were to prepare for this job now,” which I mean, just the fact that, as a member of Congress, I've probably met with 10 or 15 heads of states, one on one, presidents from different countries around the world, and to have that education, to be able to speak intelligently, at least somewhat intelligently, on these issues. Took that the steps that I just went through right there. Naviere Walkewicz 19:31 And you know, something that I think is really interesting to what you just said, working with Gen. Goldfein and with Secretary Wilson, you know, there are so few Academy graduates that have had the opportunities to serve in Congress and to be in the role that you are. How many Academy, Air Force Academy grads we have now have that have done this? Rep. August Pfluger 19:49 There's two currently serving, myself and Don Davis, opposite sides of the aisle, but great friends, and there were only two prior, so there's only been four. And the first two were Heather Wilson was the first Martha McSally, I'll never forget when I got elected. Heather Wilson called me and she said, “Congratulations, you're finally keeping up with us ladies.” And I thought it was great. But you know, we need more graduates, honestly. And I don't care who's listening to this, what side of the aisle you're on, we need more air force academy graduates. There are nine West Pointers currently serving, and seven from Annapolis currently serving, and we've only had four total. Naviere Walkewicz 20:30 All right, it's out there now. We've got our, you know, got our calling. So here we go. You know, I want to ask you a question about, you know, being in Congress, you are on several committees, and you're in leading roles in them. Let's talk a little bit. First about, if you don't mind, I'd like to talk about the Board of Visitors, because I think it's a great opportunity for our graduates to understand actually what the Board of Visitors actually does. So if you don't mind, kind of sharing in your words, you know what your priorities are with the Board of Visitors and what that looks like. I think it'd be really helpful in educating our listeners. Rep. August Pfluger 21:03 Well. Thank you. It's an honor to be on the Board of Visitors. It's statutorily set up by Congress decades ago, and it basically provides an avenue of oversight, something that is appointed both legislatively, by the speaker of the house and by the Senate majority leader and also the president. And, you know, we've got a number of several grads, but a number of senators and congressmen. And, you know, again, one of these timing things that I didn't necessarily intend to run for the chairmanship, but we needed, I think, a graduate to do that, and am proud to be the chairman of this group. You know, Charlie Kirk was on this board, and what a tragic situation that was. We've got a number of really passionate leaders, and our job really is to interact with the institution, to ask questions and to report back directly to the Secretary of War and into the Secretary of the Air Force on the health and welfare of the institution, on any other issues that we think are important. And for me, kind of the driving principle is that I love this institution, the leadership lessons that I learned there and those that I hear from so many graduates are important well beyond military service. They're important for the rest of a graduate's life. And I want to make sure that everything that is going on there, the resources that are needed there, the schedule and the curriculum and the ability to train the next generation of young warriors, both for the space and the Air Force, are the best in the country, and that we are prepared no matter what, that those graduates can go do their job. So it really is an honor to be on the board, but then to be the chairman of it. Naviere Walkewicz 23:03 I can imagine that, and I think it really speaks volumes, the fact that, you know, you're so passionate about it, you've taken what you've had from the Academy, you've applied it in this role. What are the first things that I think you're looking at? You said you talked about the resources and kind of the schedule and things that are happening at the academy. What are the key things that you're looking at right now as a Board of Visitors? Rep. August Pfluger 23:24 Well, I think to start with, I mean, we all know you wake up early, you go bed late, and you're trying to cram, you know, 28 hours into 24 and so the No. 1 thing that I want to see and work through is, how are we continuing to innovate with the best training possible, so that, you know, you can't teach the solution to every problem, but you want to teach a framework of how to think, and that, you know, there's going to be cadets that are challenged through their academic studies, there's going to be cadets that are challenged through their military studies. There's going to be cadets that are challenged athletically, and some that get all three of those, obviously, we all get got all three. But no matter which piece of the puzzle fills, you know, their time, they should get the training that teaches them how to respond in stressful situations, that teaches them how to function as a team, and that that offers them the opportunity to honestly, to experience a little bit of failure, while also knowing that success is right down the road, and that with a little grit, a little determination and a little persistence, that they're going to get there, and that is a challenge, I mean, In a resource-confined environment that we have right now that that's a big challenge, but that's why we have legislators, Senators and House members, They can go fight for those resources to make sure that they're getting that training that they need. Naviere Walkewicz 24:56 Thank you for sharing that you know, I think when you talk about having that framework to critically work through whatever is coming at you, and, you know, fighting for resources. Can you share what is the greatest challenge that you're faced with right now and how you're working through it? Rep. August Pfluger 25:11 Yeah, absolutely. I mean, just, you know, from a military standpoint, I'm obviously very biased on what air power and space power does I mean the army will deploy to certain locations. In the Navy will deploy to certain locations. But the Air Force and the Space Force are everywhere. We're in every theater. We've been in every conflict. We are the constant and I don't think resource wise, that that our Department of the Air Force is receiving the resources that it needs proportionately speaking to the threat that we face. We're the smallest and the oldest that we've ever been, and we need to change that immediately. As chairman — you mentioned I was chairman of the Republican Study Committee. What is that? Well, it's a 189-member caucus, committee, policy committee...   Naviere Walkewicz 26:01 It's the largest one, right?   Rep. August Pfluger 26:02 It's huge. It's the largest committee in Congress, and we meet weekly with Cabinet members and other leaders to discuss policy. But this has been something that I've been passionate about, which we have to take advantage of an environment where some more resources are being put towards our military, and I want to make sure that a larger portion of those go to the Department of the Air Force to meet the threat. And that's just a neat opportunity that it's a competitive election. I had to get elected by my peers. You know, 188 other congressmen and women from across the country. I had to run an election to get elected to it, and now trying to communicate to them why the business of Air and Space power is so important, but, but I'm we're slowly but surely getting there. Naviere Walkewicz 26:53 Well, I'm not sure where you have time when you're you know, you're doing so many things, you're on the road, meeting with your constituents. You're leading. You know these major committees, the Board of Visitors, as chair. Can you talk about how you're balancing? You know, you always talked about being your family is really important to you. How are you balancing that? What does that look like for someone in a leadership role? Rep. August Pfluger 27:13 Well, it's obviously the biggest challenge that any of us face, which is making sure that you take care of the most fundamental and important piece of your life, which is your family and being gone. I mean, I go to Washington, D.C., on Monday, and generally come home Thursday or Friday, and that's about three weeks out of every four. So my wife, is the most important piece of this, because she allows me to do this, and I couldn't do it without her, honestly. And then secondly, you know, we had a scare this summer because two of my girls were at Camp Mystic. And you know, that was that really brought things back to such a fundamental level that, you know, my No. 1 job on this earth is to be a husband and a father, a person of faith. And I'll tell you that that was, that was a transformational moment in it, just in my in my life, because when you have two daughters that were that thankfully came home and in then you see 27 others that didn't, that they knew that we knew the families and we were close to that. This has put everything back into perspective, that the service that I'm doing should be focused on a foundation of family and faith, and that none of it matters if you don't take care of that. Naviere Walkewicz 28:41 So what does that look like in how you lead? How does that shape the decisions you make in your role in Congress, as a reservist? And then for our listeners, you know, how do they put those important things first in the midst of having to make other decisions professionally? Rep. August Pfluger 29:01 I think a lot of it is, maybe not so much, the “what” in the decision, but it's the “how,” you know, you carry yourself, and you know on the other side of the aisle. I mean, I'm going to fight policies that I don't agree with all day long. But I think the how I do that, what I want my daughters to know is that they had a dad that was very firm in his beliefs. So I think that's, you know, when I look at it kind of like from the, “OK, what's important?” OK, being a good dad, not just saying the right things, but actually going and carrying those out. I think the how you carry them out is really important. And then, you know the specifics of legislation. There are things that, if I believe in in taking care of the American family, then there are things that I'm going to advocate for, not, not to make this to political of a discussion, but I think you can see through my track record that that I have focused on those things that would help strengthen the family, Naviere Walkewicz 30:08 The “how” is really, it's part of your legacy, right? And I think that's what your children are seeing as well, in the way that you, you, you do what you do. And I think as leaders, that's something really important to be thinking about. So I'm really thankful that you shared that example. Shared that example. Have you found that your leadership style has evolved, or has it already always been kind of rooted in you know, who you've been and you've just kind of tweaked it a little bit? Or have you seen yourself evolve more than you would have expected? Rep. August Pfluger 30:40 Yes, it has evolved, but, and I hope for the better, we'd have to ask others what they think of that, but, but, you know, look, growing up in a professionally in a fighter squadron, there were three tenants that they even though I didn't go to weapon school, they teach you this to be humble, credible and approachable. I mean, think about that. Those are the core tenants of who our lead warriors are, and that is not what you see. When you think of politicians. You think, Well, they're braggadocious and annoying. And you know, OK, and I hope I don't fall into that category. I need to do some self-reflection every once while, but, but I've got a staff of almost 40 people, and I have 434 other colleagues that you have to work with. So you better believe that you've got to be humble because there are people who are better than you in every category. You better believe that being approachable in this job is really important, because people are going to come to you and they're going to need something, or you're going to need something from them, and if you don't have the credibility of what you're talking about or what you're leading, then you're not going to get anything done. And so I've really had to work on all three of those things since I was elected to make sure that tying that to a servant leadership model. We started out in 2021, and I told my team, I said, we are going to do everything we possibly can to make other people that I am working with, other congressmen and women better. And they said, Wait, what? I said, Yeah, this isn't about me getting the limelight. We will get plenty of limelight, but let's work on giving other people the credit, giving other people the opportunities, calling on their expertise, pushing them up. And it will all work out, and we will achieve everything we wanted to achieve for the district that I represent, and it was just like this lightning bolt of it was so antithetical to the way that many people in Congress think. And I am not saying that we have changed the world, but when you're elected to basically a conference-wide position like I am, then you really have hard conversations with people, and those conversations people said, You know what, you've helped me out. I'm going to vote for you. And that meant everything, Naviere Walkewicz 33:08 Humble, approachable, credible, what great lessons for our leaders. And I think that translates across anything you're doing. Of the three, it seems that credible would probably be the hardest to achieve, right? It's a time-based thing. How would you recommend that our leaders, especially those that are growing in their leadership roles, achieve that when they don't necessarily have the time right in? Rep. August Pfluger 33:38 It's so hard, but that grit, that determination, I mean, the study, the thing, all the things we learned, you know, it's like they give you. The academic instructors are like a torture chamber, because they know you can't study everything, so you have to prioritize, which is a lesson I think I still draw on today. But I think that credibility comes from if you're going to be an expert in something, you've got to study it. You've got to know it, and people have to trust you. So when you tell them something, it has to be the truth, and they have to know well, I don't know that particular policy issue, but I know Pfluger does, because, you know he did that in his career. He studied that. So I think that grit and that determination and the prioritization of your time is so important, you can't do it all. I mean, we just can't. You have to. You have to make a choice, and those choices have to then go towards the goals that you're setting for yourself. Naviere Walkewicz 34:32 Excellent, excellent lessons. So you've accomplished so much since 2021, you know? What's next? What are you trying to work towards next? Rep. August Pfluger 34:43 I mean, there's so many different like policy issues I'm not going to bore you with. Let's just talk about the big picture, the elephant in the room, which is how divided our country is, and it's heartbreaking to see. You know, I think back to like, the aftermath of 911 I literally 911 happened two weeks prior to my pilot training graduation. You as a Class of '99 were right in the same boat. I mean, we were our professional careers were turned upside down, but our country came together, and that that was kind of the I think that that was the best thing to see how many people that were divided on whatever lines kind of came together. We're very divided, and it is hard to see and from I want to see an end of the radical sides of our parties and a normal conversation. We should be able to have a normal debate in Congress about whatever issues of spending and things like that. And we should be able to then slap each other on the back and say, Yeah, good job you won that one. Or, you know, good job I won this one. That should be kind of the norm. And I've got so many good friends who are Democrats that it's there, but the pull to radicalization is it's alive and well. And to be honest, this is why we need more Academy graduates who are doing this type of work, whether it's running for local office or running for Congress or Senate or whatever, because we get it. We get it from being a part of something that was greater than ourselves and being a part of a mission that it wasn't about, I it was literally about the team of success. And I think it's, it's veterans that are in these leadership positions that are going to help be a part of this, so that that really, I really do want to see that that doesn't mean that I'm not going to fight tooth and nail for policy that I believe in, which is partisan at times. And I'm OK with that, but what I'm not OK with is demonizing somebody for having a different belief. Let's go fight the merits of it, but not, not the character of the other person. Naviere Walkewicz 37:03 Thank you for sharing that. I think, you know, just putting the elephant on the table, I think, is really important. That's what it is about conversation. It's about dialog and so thank you for sharing that. For sure, this has been an incredible conversation. We've kind of navigated different parts of your career, you know, your leadership journey, maybe, if I could ask you this, what is something you're doing every day, Congressman Pfluger, to be better? Rep. August Pfluger 37:29 I think, in faith life, really trying to tie in spiritually, and to not be the one in control, trying to be more present in in my family's life, I'm going to give you three or four. So, you know, just being more intentional, putting the phone down, like if I'm going to sit down with my kids and be there, because I could be on the phone 24 hours a day. So put the phone down, talk to my wife be engaged, and that that's really that, that, I think that's a challenge for anybody who is in any adult right now, quite frankly, but especially those that are in leadership positions, which all of our graduates are, and so just put the phone down and being engaged, and it's hard. It's like, “Oh, I got to take care of this, you know, I got to call that person back. We've got to do this.” But you know that is, I think that that is probably the No. 1 thing that then allows a stronger faith life, a stronger relationship with my family. Physically, still taking the Air Force PT test, got a 99 last year. Was very proud of that and so trying to stay physically fit.   Naviere Walkewicz 38:48 That's outstanding!   Rep. August Pfluger 38:49 There are some other graduates who have challenged me with that. You may know Joel Neeb? A classmate of yours.   Naviere Walkewicz 38:58 Oh yeah! I know Thor.   Rep. August Pfluger 39:00 Thor is awesome. And he's been such an inspiration. I could name 100 people, but he said he's a really good inspiration to so many people. And on all the things that you just the things that I answered for your question, he's been a good inspiration on. Naviere Walkewicz 39:15 I would agree with that wholeheartedly. Yes. Well, thank you for that. Can you also share, you know, knowing what you know now through the years that you've experienced, you know your hardships, the triumphs — what would you share with our growing leaders that they can do today to help them be stronger down the road? Rep. August Pfluger 39:37 You know, I think some self-reflection, like, how do you see yourself, and how does the world see you? And is this — does it match up? Because if it's different, if your opinion of yourself is higher than that of what other people are thinking and your work ethic and what you're bringing to the to the table, then then you need to do some self-reflection. And I again, I got back to my career as a fighter pilot, which was perfect for politics. You know, you got to learn to work as a team. You have people debriefing you, and there's critical thoughts on your actions, of how you perform. But I think any leader, it needs to first have the grit to be able to stick with it. It's not always the best person that gets the job, but I can promise you, the person who keeps seeking that job and has that drive, they're going to get there. That has been the story of my life and self-reflection, to go What's stopping me from getting there is probably the key, as long as you have that grit, that self-reflection, to have some clarity for whatever goal you want to achieve. That's my humble opinion of what I would tell myself 15 years ago. Naviere Walkewicz 41:00 Wow. And I think that does kind of give us a moment to just sit in it and think about that as we are, you know, trying to be our best selves and to continue to evolve as leaders. What a great way to do that, right? Just reflect some self-reflection. I want to make sure we have an opportunity. If there's anything that I didn't ask you, that you feel is really important to share with our listeners. What would that be? Rep. August Pfluger 41:24 Well, there were a couple of things. No. 1, I was trying to think back — because your Class of '99 and I'm Class of 2000 — on whether or not I had to get in the front-leaning rest and recite John Stuart Mill's poem, or not. I can't remember that, so maybe I snuck by.   Naviere Walkewicz 41:45 Definitely a front-leaning rest kind of gal. I have pretty strong abs. I can handle that.   Rep. August Pfluger 41:51 You know, I just, I want to go back to what how important our institution is, because we're in that other dimension. We're in the air, in the space domain. We're solving problems in our professional career that I mean, think about where we've come since the Wright Brothers demonstrated we could fly and now, you know all the things that we're doing in air and space, and that's because of our graduates. And you know, I just, I really want to have a call out to our graduates that your leadership in a variety of ways is needed. It's needed in the business community, in Fortune 500 companies. It's needed in your local communities. It's needed at the national level of politics; there are several candidates for Congress right now who are graduates. I'm helping them, and I will help anybody. I don't care what party you are, of course, I have my favorite, but I will help any person who is looking to run for something like this. This is what I know now. But we really do need your leadership in order to bring the temperature down, to unite our country, to make sure that we're going to be successful. It's not if it's a matter of when we're going to face that next big, truly existential threat and challenge to our country. And guess what? I trust the people that were right there next to be in the front, winning rest, reciting all of those quotes and having to do a little bit harder of a standard in our four years of education than other institutions. And so I trust our graduates, but we need you, and we really need you to take that opportunity and serve in any possible way that you can. Naviere Walkewicz 43:45 Wow. Thank you for sharing that. I think that that is a perfect way a call to action, so to speak, for all of us you know the service after the service, so this has been incredible. Congressman Pfluger, thank you for your time today. Rep. August Pfluger 43:57 Well, Naviere, thank you for reaching so many graduates and looking forward to a Bitton Army and Navy again next year. Naviere Walkewicz 44:04 That's right next year. Well, you know, as I reflect on this conversation, you know, one theme really rises above others, courage, the grit, you know, not just the courage we often associate with the battlefield or moments of crises, but the quiet, steady courage that it takes to lead with conviction every day, Congressman Pfluger reminded us that true leadership means standing firm in your values even when the path may be uncertain or the stakes may be high, it's the kind of courage that doesn't seek comfort, but instead answers to responsibility. So as you think about your own leadership journey, ask yourself, Where is courage calling you? Where is that grit gonna take you? Whether it's in the workplace, in your community or your personal life, lean into those moments, because courage, real, principled, humble, courage is what transforms good leaders into great ones. Thank you for listening to this edition of Long Blue Leadership. If you know someone who needs encouraging words in their leadership journey, please share this podcast with them as well. I'm Naviere Walkewicz. Until next time.   KEYWORDS August Pfluger, Long Blue Leadership Podcast, U.S. Air Force Academy, leadership lessons, congressional service, fighter pilot, national security, grit and resilience, service after service, Air Force Board of Visitors, faith and family leadership, career transition, public service, humble credible approachable, air and space power.       The Long Blue Line Podcast Network is presented by the U.S. Air Force Academy Association & Foundation    

When Rebecca Gray '94 arrived at her first duty station, she thought she was ready to lead — until a senior master sergeant told her to get a coffee cup and led her away from the safety of her desk. “You've got to know who people are, so that you know how to relate to them,” he told her. That simple moment became the foundation of her entire leadership journey.    SHARE THIS PODCAST LINKEDIN  |  FACEBOOK    REBECCA'S TOP 5 LEADERSHIP TAKEAWAYS 1. Lead With Authentic Connection Genuinely care about your team members as people, not just colleagues—know their stories, show real interest in their lives, and let authenticity drive your leadership style. This builds trust and drives engagement. 2.Adapt and Balance Across Life's Seasons Recognize that leadership and career paths aren't always linear. It's important to intentionally adapt your role and focus to meet the current stage of your life, whether that means prioritizing family, professional growth, or personal health. 3. Translate Core Values Across Environments Military leadership lessons—like accountability, communication, and team cohesion—are just as powerful in civilian life. Carry these values into new environments and roles, and tailor them to fit each unique context. 4. Empower Others Through Example Be a “working leader” by setting the pace and modeling the behaviors you want to see. Encourage your team's growth by giving responsibility, asking for input, and trusting them to rise to new challenges—even if it means letting them make mistakes. 5. Continuous Self-Development Fuels Leadership Commit to lifelong learning and personal development through regular habits—like reading, exercise, and reflection. Maintaining intellectual curiosity and a growth mindset not only strengthens your leadership but also inspires others to do the same.   CHAPTERS 0:00:04 – Introduction to the Podcast and Guest Rebecca Gray 0:00:29 – The Coffee Cup Lesson: Early Leadership and the Influence of Senior Master Sergeant Kennedy 0:01:48 – Authentic Connection: Lessons Carried From the Military to Corporate Leadership 0:03:32 – The Power of Authenticity and Understanding Team Members' Lives 0:04:49 – Translating Military Leadership Lessons to the Corporate World 0:07:58 – Creating Team Connection in Remote and Fast-Paced Environments 0:11:47 – Memorable Military Leadership Influences 0:13:24 – Balancing Military Service, Family, and Career Transitions 0:16:53 – Career as Seasons: Crafting Balance and Intentionality 0:19:19 – Navigating Critical Career Junctures and Embracing Change 0:22:18 – Building Confidence and Trusting Yourself 0:23:46 – Fostering Confidence and a ‘Go Mentality' on the Team 0:25:39 – Leading and Aligning Family and Professional Goals 0:27:28 – Practicing Continuous Learning and Personal Development 0:28:32 – Advice to Emerging Leaders: Value Well-Roundedness and Humility 0:29:43 – Reflections on Alumni, Family Connection, and Leadership Beyond the Academy 0:30:15 – Closing Thoughts on Leadership, Service, and Authentic Paths ABOUT REBECCA BIO Rebecca Gray ‘94, Boingo Wireless senior vice president and general manager, leads a division providing soldiers, sailors, airmen and Marines connectivity wherever they go. Alongside her military service, she's held leadership roles at Fortune 200 companies in energy, media and telecommunications — including Southern Company and Comcast NBCUniversal — and has volunteered with multiple nonprofits. Her focus is on innovation that strengthens communities and keeps people connected. A three-time All-American springboard diver, Gray started her Air Force journey as a recruited athlete at the U.S. Air Force Academy. After graduation, she trained as a World Class Athlete and competed for Team USA at the 1995 World Games in Rome. She's served in key leadership roles across the Air National Guard and Air Force Reserve, including deputy wing commander at the 111th Attack Wing in the Pennsylvania ANG, as well as director of staff for the Georgia ANG. She's also a graduate of the Secretary of Defense Fortune 500 Corporate Fellowship Program and earned her doctorate after studying around the globe in Israel, England, India and China. She and her husband — an Air Force Academy '93 grad — married at the Cadet Chapel in 1994. They have three daughters: Jasmine, a junior at Bates College; Grace, a sophomore at Centenary University; and Kennedy, a freshman at NJIT. Their Yorkie, Cookie, has become a seasoned traveler, having visited all but two states in the continental U.S.   CONNECT WITH REBECCA LINKEDIN BONIGO WIRELESS   CONNECT WITH THE LONG BLUE LINE PODCAST NETWORK TEAM Ted Robertson | Producer and Editor:  Ted.Robertson@USAFA.org Send your feedback or nominate a guest: socialmedia@usafa.org   Ryan Hall | Director:  Ryan.Hall@USAFA.org  Bryan Grossman | Copy Editor:  Bryan.Grossman@USAFA.org Wyatt Hornsby | Executive Producer:  Wyatt.Hornsby@USAFA.org      ALL PAST LBL EPISODES  |  ALL LBLPN PRODUCTIONS AVAILABLE ON ALL MAJOR PODCAST PLATFORMS     FULL TRANSCRIPT OUR SPEAKERS Guest, Rebecca Gray '94  |  Host, Lt. Col. (Ret.) Naviere Walkewicz '99   Naviere Walkewicz  00:04 Welcome to Long Blue Leadership, where we explore the lessons of leadership through the lives and stories of Air Force Academy graduates. I'm your host, Naviere Walkewicz, Class of '99. When Rebecca Gray walked into her first duty station after graduating from the Academy, she thought she was ready to lead. But it wasn't a general, a colonel or a policy manual that changed her view of leadership. It was a senior master sergeant named Patrick J. Kennedy and a coffee cup.   Rebecca Gray  00:29 He said, “You're doing this all wrong. You need to be out, out, out.” He told me, “Go grab a coffee cup.” I didn't drink coffee at the time, so he goes, “Go get some water. Stop being difficult.” And he walked me around and said, “This is this is what matters. You've got to know who people are, so that you know how to relate to them.” That really shaped me.   Naviere Walkewicz  00:50 That simple moment became the foundation for how Rebecca has led her teams ever since. From the Air Force to corporate boardrooms, from public service to private equity, Rebecca Gray, USAFA, Class of '94, has led across nearly every domain — active duty, Reserve and Guard — and built a remarkable second career spanning nonprofit work, education and now executive leadership. Her path has been shaped by transformational moments, moments that taught her how to connect, to trust herself and to lead with conviction. Rebecca, welcome to Long Blue Leadership.   Rebecca Gray  01:23 Thank you so much for having me. It's just a privilege to be here. Thank you for what you're doing for the grads, for the parents, for alumni, all of that. It's really impressive.   Naviere Walkewicz  01:31 Oh gosh. Really appreciate that. And I think, you know, that clip was so wonderful to hear. And I think we should just jump right in to that moment in time, kind of winding back the clock when you were just really transformed in your leadership style by your senior enlisted leader. Can we talk about that?   Rebecca Gray  01:48 I was just, had just graduated, and, as you said, my first duty assignment, and the only officer in the shop. And so senior master sergeant, which is one rank below chief — so the top, one of the top senior enlisted advisers in my shop, and we went for a walk and he really just taught me how to connect with the troops, to connect with people, walk around, get to really know them. And I'll have to tell you the first time I did it, I did a pass through, I went through the motions, if you will. And, you know, I came back, I was like, “Oh, OK, I did it. I did it. I'm all… I'm good, and have done my leadership duty for the day.” And he asked me, he said, “Who got a new car?” And I mentioned the airman's name of who got a new car. He goes, “What color was the car and what was the type of car?” And I was like, “Oh, OK.” And he goes, “So you didn't really care.” And I thought that's true, that's actually accurate. I needed to really care about what his first car was, and was it a truck? Was it a sedan? What was it? And so that really shaped me into really caring in a way that's already in your heart. But how do you express that in a leadership capacity? And so that changed the course of my 30-plus years in the military and then in corporate.   Naviere Walkewicz  03:07 What a powerful story. I mean, we can actually visualize you walking around. And as you know, graduates, we are kind of like, you know, task-minded. We're going to get this done. And you did it. You check the box. But to go down that next level, how do you see that actually becoming actionable across, you know, all leadership levels, you know, where you're actually walking the walk with your troops, so to speak. Can you talk about that a little bit more?   Rebecca Gray  03:32 Well, I think you have to be authentic, and be your authentic, you know, be authentic in your heart and what you're really doing. And if you don't have that, then people can feel it. People can tell if they don't feel your connection or your care concern for them. I think that really just mirrored an opportunity for me to put the two together. To your point, we're very task-minded, results-driven. When you graduate, very results-driven. It still impacts me every day, to be results, but you were doing it alongside of other people who have lives and who have things going on in their personal and professional lives, and we bring that to the table too, and really connecting with that and how to motivate people, how to encourage, how to walk with people and help them get to the results that they need to do, you know, as part of your team.   Naviere Walkewicz  04:29 Maybe, can you share an example of how you're using this? You said this has impacted you over the past 30 years. You know, it seems very clear — we're in an in middle military setting, and you're, you know, amongst your troops, you're leading beside them, you're understanding. How does that translate now and where you're at in the corporate world, at your level of leadership. What does this look like?   Rebecca Gray  04:49 I think that's a really good question, because when you look at it, you can see it very easily in the military. It plugs and plays very easily. Once you understand and you put it all together and you can develop it. You get a opportunities to develop that every day, if you will, every day you get that opportunity. But I think when you translate it into civilian life — and we all end up having a civilian life after the military — whether it's, you know a first-term enlistment, whether it's your first duty assignment, you fulfill your active-duty commitment from the Academy, whatever those years are. Whether you, you know, finish your 20 or what have you, you do transition out of military life at some point in time.   Naviere Walkewicz  05:37 Let's talk about what you're doing right now. I think it's important for our listeners to understand what that looks like and, you know, how you're leading in that space.      Rebecca Gray  05:44 Oh my gosh. I am so excited about what I do. It's the best job I've ever had. It's a great company that I work for. I work for Boingo Wireless. And what I do — my job at the company is to do anything that relates to the military. So we provide connectivity to over 100 bases around the world. I've got an incredible team that many of them have served, either as a veteran retiree or still serving. You have to understand what they know. What is their background? Where have they been? Where have they served, so to speak? What companies have they worked in? What role, leadership roles? What technology have they been around? What schools have they been to? All those things, and then also some of their things that are going on in their personal life so that you understand what's bringing them to work every day to support their personal and professional goals. And so you have to translate that, take that military experience and put that into the civilian workforce. And I think it's very powerful. It's so natural. I really actually don't think about it as much because you've developed it so such a tried and true part of who your character becomes, that coming back into civilian life and transitioning back into it, it's a great opportunity to bring all of those skill sets and move right into that — in leading teams, in learning that new chain of command, if you will, in corporate. And so that's a really powerful thing, and it feels like it's an enjoyable part of my day is the people I get to work with, the quality of people I get to work with. If I don't have that connection, I feel like I'm missing something at the end of the day.   Naviere Walkewicz  07:36 Can you share an example in which to that level that, you know, that the senior master sergeant said, “Did you know what type of car it was?” Where you've actually got to that level with someone, maybe in your civilian career, and how that has… Have you seen that actually make an impact on either performance or the results, or really just their own worth?   Rebecca Gray  07:58 Well, I think that's an interesting question. I think that can be played in two different areas. If you're in the office, there's an ability to be connected just by having lunch together, by having coffee, you know, you're in and you're around and about, and physically, there's just a different kind of energy when you're around people. So my team, we get together at some regular intervals that we set as a team for the year. We do one big, we call it an all-hands, an annual meeting, we're going to Vegas this year, and we're going in February. And so we're bringing the entire team; everybody's coming out of the field, everybody's coming from around the world, and they're all coming. We're meeting in Vegas, and we're going to spend a couple days together talking about what we accomplished last year, what we're going to do in the future, and then we also do some learnings, and, you know, things like that, some technology growth opportunities and things like that. So that's one thing that shows that you use… You're going to spend some budget dollars to really ensure that people know how you feel and how you value them as being part of this team, and making sure… I spend every other week planning this for a year and we do that every other week, and we talk about the hotel, we talk about the food, we, you know — our team-building exercises, the agenda, the T-shirts, the design of those, every detail, because I want my team to walk away at the end of that — we'll probably have over 100 people in the room — and I want everyone to walk out of that knowing that they are a valuable member of the team. So that's one thing we do, you know, on my team. And then on Monday mornings, we have a staff meeting every Monday morning, a team meeting, and the first question of the day is, “What did you do for the weekend?” And that's where we learn about all kinds of, you know, really fun things about people and what they're doing, what they're doing with their family, or who they're, you know, trying to date, or, you know, buying a new house, or, you know, all kinds of things that you learn. And then also you develop that within the team, because other people hear that question, and otherwise it's very transactional. This is what you do. This is what you can do for me. And in this fast-paced technology world, taking that time at the beginning of the meeting to say, “Let's take a pause, and I want to hear about you.” And so to me, that's another small thing, but a very powerful thing. In a fast-paced technology space, I think it's even more critical to take a pause, to take a stop and take a breath and realize the people that we're working with are… It's a gift to have this opportunity to work with one another, and I want them to feel a part of the team, even though we're in a remote setting, because most of my team is in the field. And so in that remote setting, that is even more critical, I think. So I think there's both, you know… When you're in the office, there's one way to do things, and then when you're in this more remote setting that we are — and then we're in a fast-paced technology setting. It's moving all the time, and sometimes you get into more activity and results and results and activity, and you accomplish one thing, and you're on to the next and, and that's… I don't know if that wheel spinning so fast is always, you know, healthy.   Naviere Walkewicz  11:15 Well, I really appreciate how you actually gave very specific examples of this leadership in action, because you're right: In this pace and in this remote kind of setting that many of us operate in, being able to still find that human touch and that connection to what you were speaking about that went all the way back to, you know, the senior master sergeant. But I'm sure you also had leaders throughout your military career that also exemplified some of this. Can you share any other moments while you're in uniform, where you saw some of these leadership traits that you really wanted to embody and that you've carried through your career to date?   Rebecca Gray  11:47 Gen. Hosmer was the, I think he was the calm when I was at the Academy, and he would walk around with his A-jacket. So you didn't really know if he was a cadet or not, because once you put your hat on, you can't tell. But, and you know, “Oh my gosh, it was a general just walked past me.” But he knew people's names. He remembered my name, and he remembered it for four years, and it was just a powerful moment that I remembered on my graduation, when we walked through the line with your parents, and you're doing that reception, and he said, “Rebecca, congratulations. Well done, and you did great.” And all those kinds of you know things. And I'll never forget that walk, whether he was walking on the Terrazzo and called my name, whether he remembered it going through a line of 1,000 people with all their parents, and you know, all of that. And I think that's always stuck with me, that level of remembering somebody's name, remembering who they are, that really was powerful to me early on in my military career.   Naviere Walkewicz  12:48 Oh, thank you for sharing that, because those are the moments that so many people can connect with that really do imprint on them and how they are as leaders, you know, and I'm curious, because…   Rebecca Gray  12:57 That's a good word, “imprint.” That's a really good word, “imprint.”   Naviere Walkewicz  13:03 Yeah, it feels that way. Thank you. Thank you. You know, I would love to dive into your Air Force career and the decision to transition out, because I just imagine in the way that you have done so many incredible things that your time in the military was very successful. Can you talk about what that was and then the decision to transition, why that came about and why you made it?   Rebecca Gray  13:24 That's a very powerful decision. It's a big decision to come into the military, and it's a big decision when it's time to leave. And those are hard decisions. And sometimes you leave too early, sometimes you stay in too long. You know, different things like that. But for me, it was my husband was a '93 grad. So I'm '94 he was '93 we got married at the Cadet Chapel right after I graduated in September. I share that because my husband and I were dual spouse, joint spouse. We were just talking about it the other day, because we just celebrated — it was our 31st wedding anniversary — and we looked at it and we said, “Gosh, you know, what a ride we've had.” And we got to know each other. We were in the same cadet squadron. We were both in 29 for three years and sophomore through senior year. And we both looked at each other. We were going to get separated. I was going to do a remote to Korea. He was going to Malstrom in Montana, and my follow on was Vegas, at Nellis. And so we realized we were going to be as separated for a few years, and that was a really big decision for us, because we loved the military, we loved our lifestyle, we loved our friends, we loved the camaraderie and all the things that you love, and we realized, where does that fit with our marriage and how do we pull this off? And so I think along the way, we've really tried to drive a commitment to service. We both went off active duty. We decided to go into the Reserve together, and then I eventually went into the Guard. So I ended up serving active duty, Guard and Reserve, which was really wasn't done back in the day.   Naviere Walkewicz  15:04 No, I was going to say…   Rebecca Gray  15:07 No, that was not done. I mean, you stay active duty for 20 years. You stay Reserve. You might do active duty and then Reserve, but to finish up and get to your 20… But I had three little children, and so I was able to do the Reserve. And so I think what's great about the military is, if you are open to looking at your career and seeing it as a different stages and phases of your life and letting it shape and form around that too, there are ways to serve. That was the way I felt called to serve. I think other people, active duty is the way to go, or Reserve or Guard is the way to go, you know, straight through. But for me, it gave me the flexibility, and I found that it was a lot of fun to do it that way. I got to learn different things in each of the different statuses, if you will. And I was able to put a whole career together with three little kids, and, you know, 31 years of marriage.   Naviere Walkewicz  16:04 Well, I think as a leader, those decision points — and it sounds like you were really well grounded in, you know, what do we want to commit to. Commitment to service, a commitment to each other. But I think what is so special about your career, when you look at it in seasons or in stages, is you've had some incredible opportunities to still continue to thrive professionally, even as those stages change. And if you wouldn't mind sharing some of that, because I think there's times when listeners feel like, “If my trajectory is not vertical, like in one path that you know, that everyone kind of recognizes as the path, then it's not successful.” But to your point, if you look at it in stages, and what is this stage, how do I evolve in this stage? In this stage? And maybe it's not always directly vertical, but we're still moving in it at an angle. I think it's powerful for our listeners to hear, if you don't mind sharing what that's been like.   Rebecca Gray  16:53 I made a very intentional decision to serve as a squadron commander in a certain season. So I wanted to build a life that had different components to it, and to do that, that meant you have to be intentional about that if you want to stay on one path. And I think as this world gets more complex, the technology is moving very fast. You want to stay balanced. I think the only way you can stay balanced in life is to really have different components of your life. There's a time to be a squadron commander, there's a time to be a senior leader. There's a time to be an individual contributor and there's a time to say this is, you know, for whatever myriad of reasons, health or family dynamics, or you're going through a degree program. And so you have to kind of make those things to ebb and flow appropriately. And I wanted to put those building blocks and pieces together to make something really interesting and a reason to wake up in the morning and something that got me out of bed. I do Squadron Officer School. I do, you know, ACSC, and then War College. And so you can end up checking these boxes and checking, you know, different assignments and different levels. Just like you graduate from college, you got to meet certain, you know, credit requirements and different kinds of classes and things like that. So I'm not saying it's a negative, but it shouldn't be a mindset. It should be just the way you need to get certain things done.   Naviere Walkewicz  18:17 And by the way, Sgt. Kennedy would come back and be like, “This is not enough, ma'am.” So, but you know what I really loved about what you just described? This might be the first time I've heard the description of balance, because you did it in a way that — you talked about balance being almost having holistic, a holistic view of various pillars. And there's times when you know you're bringing one of the forefront, so you're not ever saying they're in balance, where they're all, you know, equitable or like, everything is just, you know, the scale is exactly the same on both sides. But what you're saying is, there's time when you're bringing stuff to the forefront, but I'm really aware of the all of those pieces, and I think that is such a wonderful way to look at balance. Which brings me to this question of, you know, you have approached your career and, you know, being a mother and a wife was such, you know, a unique view. When did you know it was time to add onto your plate in this nonprofit space? And then you go, you know, going… So it just seems like you've made these decisions at critical points. How do you measure when that next point is supposed to come around and you take that leap?   Rebecca Gray  19:19 Sometimes, life gives you that opportunity to take a step back and say, “OK, I'm now at a critical juncture. What do I want to do?” That can be your, you know, your health, or a family dynamic, or you get accepted into a program and you want to do this. When I got accepted into that secretary of defense corporate fellowship program that's basically Air War College in residence. You can imagine doing Air War College in residence as a Guard member was very prestigious, an incredible opportunity, and then they sucked me into this fellowship opportunity. But that really changed my trajectory, because at the time, I was in nonprofit, and it pulled me out, put me back in uniform for one year. That was a one-year commitment to do War College in that capacity. And then it was after that I decided to move into corporate. And so I think there's certain times when you get those moments, and what I think is, people race through those — I think they race through that moment. And instead to take a stop and a pause and say, “Do I want to make a change at this moment? Do I want to do this?” I really didn't want to make that change. I didn't want to come out of nonprofit at the time. I didn't want to do War College in residence. I didn't want to do some of those things. And instead, I took it and I said, “I don't know where this is heading, but I'm OK with where this is gonna go.” And I don't think sometimes you need to know all those pieces before you make those decisions. And I think — because then if you need that, you're never going to have it. I mean, you just don't. And so for me, it's always a moment where you stop and you say, “This is an opportunity for me to change where I live, to change my career, to change a family dynamic.” Do you add another kid? Do you, you know, stop at three? You know, what do you do? I think what I have tried to really do is stop and really have it like, really, I really take it… Really take that moment and have that moment and say, this is a moment for me to say, is, “What do I need to change? What do I want to change?” Or nothing? Do I want — I keep going, but I have made that decision.   Naviere Walkewicz  21:30 Well, what I'm hearing from that is a level of confidence in yourself that you've probably developed over time. From, you know, the different interactions you've had from… I mean, wearing so many hats has probably actually given you a stronger confidence in what you're able to accomplish, what your capacity is when you don't really know what's all around you, so to speak, you don't have all the answers. Can we talk a little bit about when you knew that, or when you recognize that in yourself? Because when you made those decisions and you said you walked through those doors with your eyes wide open, you're essentially betting on yourself, right? You have built this trust and confidence in your ability. Can you talk about what that looks like? How you came to that? Because I think there's times where our listeners have this doubt, this self-doubt, so let's talk about that.   Rebecca Gray  22:18 If you have good, good people around you, you ask for good advice. You have a, I think, a faith that can ground you. And you know that you've been given these gifts and this skill set, and you've made certain mile markers in life. I think it just builds over time.   Naviere Walkewicz  22:39 Would you say that you recognized, I guess, betting on yourself and confidence in yourself early in the years when you started diving and recognized, “Wow, this is scary, but OK,” right? Or was it more developed later?   Rebecca Gray  22:52 I started diving when I was 10, and you know, I would be up there on the diving board. I was a little 10-year-old, and sometimes you couldn't get walked down the board. You were terrified. My coach would sit there and she would say, “OK, we're gonna go — 1, 2, 3,” and you go, you learn how to walk down that diving board, and you learn how to do things that you you're not really confident on, and you're not really… But once you master it, it's really fun. It's probably from, I think, diving, athletics, I think does that to you. You know, whether you're chasing that soccer ball and you got to go up against somebody bigger, whether you're in football, and you got to go off up against… My husband was a fullback at the Air Force Academy, and so he went up against lineman at Notre Dame and Ohio State and things like that. And he goes, “It was terrifying.” And so… But when the whistle blows and the play calls called you. You go and so you develop that strength some somehow along the way to push through.   Naviere Walkewicz  23:46 How have you developed those that have come under your care as a leader that maybe didn't have that athletic background? How do you teach them that? How do you instill in them that “go” mentality, that, you know, fear is just your body's response, gets your blood, you know, your blood flowing. How do you do that as a leader?   Rebecca Gray  24:03 I think, I think you do it by going out ahead and standing out there, and maybe you're the only one out there, so to speak, ahead of it, ahead of the team, in believing whatever direction you need to go, whatever new business direction you need to go in, or what new product line you need to develop, or what new revenue goals do you need to accomplish? And you have to go out there, and you've got to do it yourself. I'm probably more of a working leader than a leader that manages. I'm not the best manager, if you will, but I can get out in front. But I think, for me, it's just been leading out in the head, going out there and saying, this is the direction, building that conversation across the team leaders to make sure we're aligned, to make sure we're thinking the same thing. Are you reading the market the way I'm reading the market? Are you reading some of these leadership decisions within the industry that we're reading? And are we seeing this the same way — bouncing those ideas off and then developing that and that groundswell to really go for it.   Naviere Walkewicz  25:06 I want to ask you this question that's tied to this idea of understanding your capacity, your capabilities, your talents, your strengths, betting on yourself, and how you've been able to do that while you still successfully have a 31-year marri… right? Like a marriage and a family that has to also buy into those decisions. What does that look like as a leader when you're making those decisions, when you have children and a family or a spouse, you know? How do you navigate that when they also have their goals?   Rebecca Gray  25:39 Oh, it's so deep. It's so deep because…   Naviere Walkewicz  25:43 It's real because this is what they're facing. You know, all of our leaders are facing these questions.   Rebecca Gray  25:47 It is, it is. You're facing these decisions back at home, and what you've got to manage at home. You know, my husband, I really lead, and we lead by example — that we take care of our business and we do our things. And as soon as the girls were able to do a lot of things for themselves, we gave them that responsibility. That really helped. I think your kids are pretty capable, and they're really strong and they're very smart and they're wise, and they can feel the energy in the room. They can feel your commitment to them.   Naviere Walkewicz  26:19 Well, I mean, I think what I heard through all that as well, is having those values aligned like you do, and then really communicating and then just championing the responsibility and the capabilities of your family members. It seems like, you know, you don't only just do that at work, but what I'm hearing is you've done this and the home life as well, and it's continued to just really evolve your family in such a beautiful way. So thank you for sharing that with us. Because I think that's really powerful and sometimes when our listeners feel like, “Gosh, I don't know how to make this decision,” I think if you start from that place of, “Are we aligned? Do we know what our core, you know, piece is,” go from there, it seems like you've been able to navigate that really well. Thank you for sharing that. Well, I want to ask you something that you're doing every day, because as leaders… And I'm not sure what your thoughts are on this, maybe you can share, but a lot of people will talk about how “I'm always learning. I'm continuing to learn, even as a leader, I'm still learning every day.” Can you share if that's how you feel, and if so, what are you doing on a daily basis to just be a better version of yourself as a leader, professional, etc.?   Rebecca Gray  27:28 I think when you work out and you get a really good workout, and whatever that is, walking or, you know, at the gym or lifting, or whatever that is, biking or swimming — I think for me, that exercise and reading — those are probably the two things that I really work a lot on, and making sure that's just part of the day. You know, a lot of times we don't have to think too much about eating because we get hungry. But, you know, once you start exercising a lot, and you read a lot, and you have that quiet time — when you don't have it, you miss it, and so you almost get hungry for it. And so to create that consistency, so you can create that hunger. If you do skip it, or you want to skip it. Even when I travel for work, I do it. The girls know that if we're in a hotel, I'm going to go run down to the gym for a little bit. They'll come with me or not, but that's something I'm going to do regardless. And then the reading is really, really critical.   Naviere Walkewicz  28:20 You know, one of the things we also love to ask, and maybe this is a better way to ask it, is, if you were to give advice to your daughters on what they could do today to be better leaders for tomorrow, what would that be?   Rebecca Gray  28:32 I don't know if it's a goal to be a leader, but I think it's a goal to develop and be really well rounded, really solid, because you will default to being the leader. If you have that strength, you have that intellectual capacity, you have the humility. But I think having that humility is really, really critical, the well-roundedness, having different aspects to your life. You know, it can't all be just school and homework, and it needs to be whatever that is music or athletics or, you know, what have you in your faith community or something, you've got to have a well-rounded… because things come and go in your life.   Naviere Walkewicz  29:12 Well, I love how you really put that together. Because I think the key thing was, you know, I don't know that they're necessarily aspiring to be a leader, but if they aspire to be well rounded and that kind of a wholesome approach, they will be the leader in the room. And I just, I just love that, because it just makes it so clear, right? I thought that was incredible. Well, we're coming up at our time, and I just have loved this conversation. Is there anything we didn't cover that you just like, this is a time, like, we want to make sure we didn't miss anything that you would like to share.   Rebecca Gray  29:43 What you're really focused on is really powerful. And connecting the alumni, connecting the families, so that they understand what their child is going through at the Academy is really important. Realizing there's life out of the Academy, and you still need to serve, and you still need to contribute, and there's a way, there's a lot of lessons that we had at those four critical years of our life that can carry us. And I think you're really highlighting that and giving us the space to share some of that. So really appreciate that.   Naviere Walkewicz  30:15 Well, I appreciate you saying that, and I just have to share with our listeners: You know, what I've really taken away from today's conversation is that leadership begins in small moments, a cup of coffee, a conversation, you know, choosing to listen, but it grows through courage, you know, the courage to step into uncertainty, which you've done, to serve where others maybe wouldn't, and to believe in your path, even if it looks unconventional.   Rebecca Gray  30:38 It has, yeah, even if it looks unconventional, that's OK. It's OK too.   Naviere Walkewicz  30:43 And I love that you talked about how it wasn't about the titles, but it was really about the experiences and kind of having that full picture of you and the confidence to bet on yourself. So this has just been a privilege to be with you on Long Blue Leadership I want to thank everyone for listening to this Long Blue Leadership episode. If you know others that are really growing in their leadership journeys and could benefit from this, please share it with them. We love having all of you listen to these wonderful lessons on leadership from our Air Force Academy graduates. So Rebecca, again, thank you so much. We will see you another time, but for now, I'm Naviere Walkewicz, Class of '99. Thanks for joining us.   KEYWORDS Rebecca Gray, leadership lessons, authentic leadership, Air Force Academy, military to corporate transition, women leaders, team connection, career development, executive leadership, Boingo Wireless, building confidence, personal growth, leadership podcast, work-life balance, empowering teams, transformational leadership, continuous learning, squadron commander, leadership journey, remote team management, military experience, family and career balance, purpose-driven leadership, leading by example, leadership advice, mentoring, professional development, inspirational stories, alumni connections, values-driven leadership.       The Long Blue Line Podcast Network is presented by the U.S. Air Force Academy Association & Foundation    

Joe Oltmann opens the week with a single truth bomb: America has only ONE problem—a uniparty that betrays its warriors and steals its votes. From Mexico exploding into chaos while their socialist president shields cartels. Then the gut-punch: Tina Peters, Gold Star mom, coughs blood in a freezing cell while Colorado's “Republican” machine funds the same ES&S fraud boxes that jailed her. One problem. One enemy. One fight.Adam DeRito—Sky Soldier, whistleblower expelled from USAFA, author of the DeRito Act—comes locked and loaded. He'll tell the story of how the same Pentagon that weaponized psych evals against him now protects Colorado's rigged election system. Barbara Kirkmeyer wants to be governor in 2026—Adam calls her out by name: legacy RINO, budget-committee enabler, zero action on audits or machines. When GOP “leaders” abandon Tina Peters and fund the fraud, is it incompetence… or treason? Adam doesn't mince words: burn it down or bow down.The finale detonates the MAGA civil war: Trump torches Marjorie Taylor Greene over H1B visas, calls her “wacky traitor,” then unloads on Thomas Massie for daring to demand Epstein files. Donors vs. America First. AIPAC cash vs. American workers. The base is screaming while the President swings at his own. Is the movement fracturing at the worst possible moment? 4PM ET—lock in, pick a side, or watch the Republic burn.

Wes Stowers grew up in Chattanooga Tennessee and though relatives and friends developed a desire to fly at an early age. USAFA was the goal and aside from typical cadet shenanigans he got through without much trouble. Upon graduation Wes headed off to UPT at Craig and actually finished there as the base was closing. After an IP tour at Vance he got assigned to Torrejon and F-4s which led to several other assignments in Europe where he and his family grew to where they had school age kids. Then he was faced with the challenge of either taking stateside assignments and continuing an active career or returning home to Tennessee and helping his family with their Caterpillar dealership in East Tennessee. Wes returned home and continued to fly for the USAF Reserves as he climbed up the ranks at the dealership eventually becoming Chairman and CEO. Wes still flies his P-51 “Ain't Misbehavin” at Commemorative Air Force shows and sits on the USAFA Board of Directors.

Dr. Kimberly Dickman discusses the impact of loneliness and why it is an epidemic across the United States.  She also shares the importance of having meaningful connections and how those connections influence our overall well-being.      This podcast is made possible by generous funding from the Vance Spouses' Club https://www.vancespousesclub.com/ and Peterson, Schriever, Cheyenne Mountain Spouses' Club https://www.pscspousesclub.org/.      Audio mixing by Concentus Media, Inc., Temple, Texas.    Show Notes:    Resources:    Dickman, K. (2024, July). Loneliness: The New Global Pandemic. On the Move. Summer 2024  https://militarychild.org/news-and-publications/      Bio:    Dr. Kimberly S. Dickman serves as an assistant professor at the U.S. Air Force Academy Center for Character and Leadership Development (CCLD), where she leads the Healthy Relationship Education and Emotional Intelligence branch of the Development Division in the Center. CCLD's mission is to advance the understanding, scholarship, practice, and integration of character and leadership development, resulting in cadets and permanent party prepared for service to the nation.     Dr. Dickman is a licensed clinical professional counselor and certified educator. She began her work in education for the Department of Defense in 1991. During her 20+ years of civilian service she has performed at the Wing and Headquarters Air Force level before coming to USAFA. Of note is her work in the Sexual Assault Prevention and Response program where she focused on education, analysis, and prevention science. Her extensive experience allows her to serve at USAFA as faculty and lead in topics such as healthy relationships, emotional intelligence, positive psychology, prevention science, human sexuality, and leadership development. She teaches Human Sex, Reproduction, and Sexuality in the Biology Department and Applied Positive Psychology in the Behavioral Science and Leadership Department.      Dr. Dickman is widely recognized and is frequently requested to present across the DoD and on a national scale.   

Need financing for your next investment property? Visit: https://www.academyfund.com/ Want to join us in San Francisco, CA on October 7th & 8th? Visit: https://www.10xvets.com/events ____ Drew Miller is the CEO of Fortitude Ranch, a survival and recreational community for disaster preparedness and everyday use. A former Air Force intelligence officer and longtime prepper, Drew founded Fortitude Ranch over a decade ago, creating a network of secure rural compounds supported by professionally organized teams and sustainable resources. With eight locations nationwide, Drew's mission is to offer members affordable access to well defended, well-supplied communities. These are places to vacation in good times and also survive during societal collapse. Featuring defensive walls, cleared lines of fire, and a blend of staff from military and law enforcement backgrounds, Fortitude Ranch stands out for its depth of planning and national media recognition. In this episode of the SABM podcast, Scott chats with Drew about: Fortitude Ranch's Mission: Delivering affordable professionally managed survival communities and recreational opportunities for the middle class. Survival Model and Member Experience: Combining secure compounds, armed and organized membership, farming and recreation for both collapse preparedness and yearly vacations. Growth and Expansion: Eight locations nationwide, including NY, WV, TN, WI, CO, NV, TX, with a focus on raising capital to build more sites and support franchise expansion.  App Based Preparedness: The Collapse Survivor app provides threat alerts, training exercises, and offline access to Wikipedia and maps for emergencies. Industry Challenges:  Operating in a sector unrecognized by traditional financing, countering misinformation, and advocating for civil defense reform.  Long Term Vision: Publishing practical resources to change policy, increase government readiness, and protect ordinary Americans, not just elites, in the age of collapse. Timestamps: 00:12 Understanding Fortitude Ranch 01:50 The Concept of Collapse Survival 03:33 Origins of Fortitude Ranch 05:10 Locations and Media Coverage 06:34 Membership and Benefits 10:05 Future Goals and Challenges 18:21 Government and Preparedness Connect with Drew: LinkedIn | Drew Miller www.fortituderanch.com manager@fortituderanch.com  If you found value in today's episode, don't keep it to yourself—share it with a colleague or friend who could benefit. And if you're a Service Academy graduate ready to elevate your business, we'd love for you to join our community and get started today. Make sure you never miss an episode subscribe now and help support the show: Apple Podcasts Spotify Leave us a 5-star review! A special thank you to Drew for joining me this week. Until next time! -Scott Mackes, USNA '01    

Ltt Gen. Marc Sasseville was born into an Air Force family and that played a significant role in his decision to attend the U.S. Air Force Academy and become an Air Force officer. After 14 years on active duty, Sasseville shifted to the Air National Guard in 1999 and also became a commercial airline pilot.On September 11, 2001, Sasseville was serving with the 113th Wing of the District of Columbia Air National Guard at Andrews Air Force base when Al Qaeda terrorists hijacked four airliners. Once the second plane struck the World Trade Center, Sasseville and everyone else on base knew it was a terrorist attack. But would there be more planes? And would they be headed for Washington, D.C.?In this edition of Veterans Chronicles, Gen. Sasseville tells how that day unfolded. He explains what development required pilots in the D.C. Air National Guard to scramble their F-16's and be ready to confront any other other planes being flown by terrorists. But they had a big problem. None of their F-16's were armed with missiles and there was no time to wait for that. The reality soon hit home: if they needed to stop an airliner, they'd have to hit it with their own planes. If that was required, they would not be coming home.Sasseville takes us through his thinking on the most effective way to strike an airliner with an F-16. Ultimately, that would not be necessary due to the heroism of the passengers aboard United Airlines Flight 93. Sasseville honors them and he tells us what it was like flying near the Pentagon not long after it was attacked.He also reveals the unexpected assignment he received later in that day on 9/11 and details his time as commander of the 410th Expeditionary Operations Support Squadron in the early days of the Iraq War. Finally, he reflects upon what was really asked of him on 9/11 and his instinctive willingness to put his life on the line to protect our nation.

Send us a textPeaches rips through the latest DoD chaos—everything from fake heroes getting exposed to the National Guard finally being trusted with their own sidearms. The crew doesn't hold back: stolen valor clowns cashing in on lies, the Navy changing hands at the top, the Air Force still fumbling leadership drama, and the Army trying to let AI babysit its broken vehicles. Oh, and the Air Force rugby team actually came to play. If you wanted polished PR fluff, this ain't it. If you wanted the raw, unfiltered truth with some sarcasm on top—welcome back to the team room.⏱️ Timestamps: 00:00 – Welcome back to the Team Room 00:07 – What the hell is “attributes-based selection” anyway? 01:35 – New Mexican Border Defense Medal: legit recognition or shiny trinket? 02:05 – Stolen Valor Hall of Shame: Tim Kennedy & Shrek Mithi 03:00 – DC National Guard locked and loaded—finally 04:27 – Navy installs new CNO, same old story? 05:05 – DoD tech props up border security ops 05:45 – Air Force Undersecretary visits USAFA… where's the leadership accountability? 06:20 – Global Strike Command clears M18 handgun inspection mess 06:45 – Joint tactical airlift training at Yakota with allies 07:30 – Bomber Task Force flyover déjà vu 07:45 – Space Development Agency satellites locked and shipped 08:10 – Army tests AI for fixing vehicles (because mechanics need chatbots now) 09:06 – Why AI might actually help maintainers, fuels, and munitions crews 09:50 – Armed Forces Rugby update: Air Force leads the charge 10:15 – Nashville OTS slots still open + Live YouTube Friday

In this special presentation, Lt. Gen. Tony Bauernfeind '91, USAFA's 22nd superintendent, shares an inside look into cadet development and answers graduate questions. Hosted by Lt. Col. (Ret.) Naviere Walkewicz '99, this episode dives into the Academy's mission and how it is preparing our nation's future warfighters.   FULL TRANSCRIPT SPEAKERS Guest:  Lt. Gen. Tony Bauernfeind '91  |  Host:  Lt. Col. (Ret.)Navire Walkewicz '99   Naviere Walkewicz This special edition of the Air Force Gradcast is a production of the Long Blue Line Podcast Network, presented by the U.S. Air Force Academy Association & Foundation. I'm your host, Lt. Col. (Ret.) Naviere Walkewicz, Class of '99. We're honored to feature the superintendent of the United States Air Force Academy, Lt. Gen. Tony Bauernfeind, Class of '91. In this presentation, Gen. Bauernfeind will share important updates on current initiatives and developments at our Air Force Academy. Following his remarks, he and I will sit down for a conversation, during which he'll respond to questions submitted by graduates in our alumni community. So now, without further ado, Gen. Bauernfeind. Thank you for being here, sir.   Gen. Bauernfeind Well, Naviere, thank you so much for allowing us to come and share our story of our wonderful Air Force Academy. And thank you as well to the Association of Graduates and the Foundation for all of the incredible support that we receive to develop our future leaders into the warrior leaders that we need on Day 1 in our Air Force and Space Force.   Naviere Walkewicz Yes, sir, we are grateful you're here, and we can't wait to hear what you're able to share with us today, sir, so we can jump ahead if you're ready.   Gen. Bauernfeind Wonderful. So I would like to share with you an updated mission brief of where we are going at the United States Air Force Academy. And during this time, I'd like to share not only our leadership team that's taking on the transformation that has been mandated, but also to update our alumni on our mission, our vision, our priorities and our mission sets, as well as talk about how we are creating warfighters, leaders of character and quality, and critical thinkers, and provide an update of how we are transforming this amazing institution to develop those warrior leaders that we need to keep our adversaries at bay. So as always, I'd like to start all briefings with a little video that highlights what our cadets are doing and our incredible public affairs team and video team put together the following video that shows what our cadets have been doing over the last six months... ...So you can see that our cadets have been absolutely busy over the last few months, and I can attest that this summer is they brought the problems up even more and are bringing even more energy to their training, their education, their development. But let me first talk about the amazing team at the senior leadership levels at the United States Air Force Academy, because we cannot do what we're doing without this incredible team. So first, we're welcoming reader Gen. Nicholas Evans as our new vice superintendent, coming out as the 18th Wing commander at Kadena Air Base, bringing a wonderful operational experience to bear, as well as academic bona fides to be our vice superintendent. Our command chief remains Command Chief John Alsvig and our commandant remains to be Brig. Gen. Marks and Col. Steve Hasstedt is our acting dean as we work to bring a new dean into bear. Ms. Gail Colvin is our stalwart chief of staff, with her wisdom from the Class of '80 that keeps us moving forward. Ms. Jen Block is our executive athletic director. Mr. Nate Pine is our director of athletics, and our brand new wing commander, the 10th Air Base Wing, Col. Ahave Brown. And we all know that nothing happens at USAFA without the 10th Air Base wing providing the foundational support. But also Col. Taylor from the 306 Flying Training Wing, and Col. Silva is our space detachment commander, and it's important that we have all those leaders that are helping us transform USAFA. And to that transformation, we talk about our updated mission statement that was approved last fall. And that updated mission statement is that “USAFA's mission is to forge leaders of character motivated to a lifetime of service and developed to lead our Air Force and Space Force as we fight and win our nation's wars.” And for the alumni, as we went through this mission statement development, we realized that there are many activities we take on at the United States Air Force Academy. There's education, there's training, there's motivation, inspiration, development. And we realized that we are taking the most amazing women and men from all four corners of this United States, and we're bringing them here as raw materials, and we are taking them through high-stress military, academic and athletic programs to forge them into something stronger than what they were when they showed up. And those are the leaders of character. We also wanted to make sure that we highlighted that it's about delivering a lifetime of service to our nation. It doesn't mean that every graduate needs to do 34-plus years in active duty like I'm currently doing, but continue to give back, whether that's in active duty, the Guard the Reserve, to your community in the defense industry, as an elected official or as a key supporter in our alumni networks — keep serving our nation. And then finally, an acknowledgement that we, alongside our teammates at West Point and Annapolis, have a very special mandate that we are developing those warrior leaders that will fight and win our nation's wars. While we hope that we will achieve peace through strength and deter our adversaries, we must always be ready when the nation calls and we will go forward and deliver victory for our nation. So it's important in our mission, but a mission will only take us so far. And the next step is acknowledging that we must have a vision. What is our North Star? And our North Star is we will remain and continue to be the nation's premier service academy. That we're bringing in rigorous, adversary-focused military training, military training that achieves a standard, that achieves a requirement, and not just training for training sake. But also maintain our level as a nationally recognized academic program with highly competitive athletics, and acknowledging that for us to deliver on those four, we must continue to sustain a world-class installation. But more importantly, continue to bring in professional and dedicated permanent party into our faculty. Our coaches, our headquarters, our installation support requires our outstanding permanent party. And so our vision moves us forward. And from our mission and our vision, we have established three key priorities, and those priorities will guide our decision making. But let me take your attention to the bottom first. The bottom is our foundational aspect, that we build all of our aspects upon our service core values of our Air Force and our Space Force of integrity first, service before self, excellence in all we do, courage, character, connection and commitment. And those we build upon further foundationally to acknowledge that we are in the military and all aspects of military operations activities require a strict adherence to standard. What is the task that we are executing? What are the conditions on which we will execute those tasks? And what standards do we expect, especially in high end warfare, where our standards are so tight. We also acknowledge that what is special about us is our Honor Code. It is foundational to our character, and we'll talk more about that as we build upon this. But realizing that the Class of '59 that established our Honor Code. It has been foundational to the development of our leaders of character and quality as a board, and then adding into the fact that leaders who built lethal warfighting teams — they do it from a position of respect and teamwork, that they take their team and they support them, they hold them accountable, but they push them to rise above what they could think they could personally achieve. And how do we build those future leaders that are going to take teammates from all four corners of this United States and make sure every single teammate is seen, heard and valued and can give everything possible to the mission at hand? And that leads us to our priorities. That our priorities are we are here to forge warfighters to win, to inspire leaders of character and quality, and finally, to motivate critical thinkers to adapt, because all three are important. And that takes us to our mission sets, because those three priorities span across everything we do in a cadet's journey at the United States Air Force Academy. And the first is acknowledging the military training aspect. That military training goes beyond just learning how to put a uniform on, just how to march correctly, but also understanding how to operate inside of Air Force and Space Force norms and take on those military training activities that our Air Force and Space Force are taking on right now with Ready Airmen Training and the ability to execute agile combat deployment. And that's activities like being able to shoot, move, communicate, medicate and automate, but also acknowledging that we also must have that world-class academic program that challenges our future leaders not what to think, but how to think, and to do that from a warfighting-focused curriculum that is very STEM focused, but also leans in hard to how we can leverage the incredible intellect that these cadets are bringing in today and unleash them on some of the hardest Air Force and Space Force problems through our research programs as we lean into it. And then finally, as we talk about our competitive athletics, that athletics is a key aspect of the cadet's journey, whether it be through our 30 incredible intercollegiate sports teams, our intramural programs, our physical education programs, or finally our physical fitness tests that demonstrate the warrior ethos that is being expected of a military service academy, and it's important that we look across those. But let me talk about a little further of our priorities from those three lenses. The first is the aspect of warfighters win, of how we're bringing in training such as shoot, move, communicate, medicate and automate. And I've heard some teammates are going, “Why are we doing this ground focused training?” And at the end of the day, it's not ground focused training, it's joint force training. This is where our Air Force is going. That we still need to be able to succeed in the air, space, cyber domains, but we must also deliver excellence in these domains. With shoot, I requested that all of our cadets now become qualified in their long gun, the M4, and their sidearm, the M18, every single year. So now they'll have the confidence of their weapons when they have to go forward into harm's way. The same with move and communicate. Can they understand the aspects of mission command, especially in future fights where we may not have the best connectivity with our highest headquarters? Will they understand commander's intent and still be able to generate the combat power we need to keep our adversaries on their heels? Finally, to medicate. Over the last few decades, we have benefited from the golden hour, where we had such dominance that when we had a teammate isolated or injured, we would have medical care a rescue capability to them inside the hour. Future battlefields will likely not give us that luxury. So we must teach our future leaders those advanced medical capabilities to take care of their injured teammates while they're continuing to generate combat power. And finally, as we have seen from the Iranian wars and the Ukrainian wars, automation is here and part of modern warfare. And so how are we going to bring automation capabilities to our future leaders so they can develop the new TTPs that we are working through. And again, thank you to the Association of Graduates and Foundation, because you all provided the seed funding for our first automation efforts this summer. So thank you so much. And let me dig in a little further on why warfighters win. And from our president and our secretary of defense, it has been very clear that they want us to establish peace through strength, that we must develop our ways in three areas: to restore the warrior ethos, to rebuild our military and to reestablish deterrence. And we have gotten that guidance very clear from our leadership, and we will prepare our future leaders in that mind. And we have added that over the last year by bringing in year round warfighting training. So not only during the summer periods, but also through the academic year, are we asking our future warrior leaders to take on the military mission, the academic mission and the athletic mission as we move forward. And as discussed, it is directly aligned to our Air Force with Ready Airman Training and our agile combat employment. And over the last year, we took our baby steps. We're not where we need to be, but I can tell you I'm proud of how far we've come, because we moved forward with energy and violence through the fall and spring culminating exercises. I'm proud of how far we've come, but now for this year, we're gonna enter into the walk phase, because we have more to go. And with that in mind, there's been conversations of recognition and promotion, and that is tied not only to our leadership development, but also to our warfighting training. And it's an acknowledgement that for every year you at the Air Force Academy, we are purposely developing you and increasing your capabilities. And so we are going to provide the expectations for your year, whether you're four-degree, three-degree, two-degree or first-degree — a firstie — and you must meet those training standards, and if you do not meet the training standards, then we are not going to recognize you for your past work, but if you meet our standards, then we are going to recognize you for the good work and promote you to the next grade. But the ultimate promotion being a Second Lieutenant in our Air Force and Space Force as it goes forward. Over the last year, there are teeth of this. We did have 153 cadets that were not recognized due to not meeting the standards, but we are now providing them the options over the summer and this fall to now meet the standards as we move forward. Also this year, focusing on warfighting, is acknowledging that we must arm the cadets to be the instructors. Last year, we did it very quickly. Now we're going to take advantage of our incredible cadets, just like our cadets do exceptional things — teaching each other how to fly, teaching other each other how to jump during our freefall program — but now we are working through the cadet warfighter instructor course, a beta course, where we will teach cadets to be those instructors inside of our squadrons in the academic year, to take on how to teach, how to shoot, to move, to communicate, automate and medicate. And we are one more week left in our inaugural cadet warfighter instructor course. I know we will learn much from this beta iteration, but I'm excited to see what we learned from this as we go into the academic year and unleash these cadets and train ourselves. We're also very appreciative from the Foundation for the establishment of the Institute for Future Conflict. And the Institute for Future Conflict has been around for a couple of years and has already forced us to focus and think differently. And I would offer to you the reason behind that is because they are focused on our adversaries. So I like to call them our adversary focused disruptors. They are going to bring ideas to bear that force us to change the way we develop our cadets for the future, because they're looking at what our adversaries are doing. And as such, we made the decision to elevate them into Headquarters USAFA, so they can have a wider impact, not only within the dean of faculty, but also within the Cadet Wing and the Athletic Department, so we can ensure that we are bringing those disruptive thoughts and putting them into in place so we prepare our leaders for a very uncertain world, to include bringing realism into the training that our cadets are taking on. We're also acknowledging academically, there's more that we have to do with our intellect. And over the last year, we have added three additional warfighting minors, one on quantum, one on aerospace materials, and we're in the final stages of establishing a warfighting minor on future conflict. Hopefully that we will be able to start providing that to our cadets over the next year, as we went into that so very excited to the growth in our academic options. And then finally, athletically, we're updating our PT standards, and we're adding additional PE courses for our future leaders. Our future leaders — we will increase water survival, especially when we look to the future and the regions where we expect to potentially have conflict, increased water survival is important — as well as increased combatives, and we're still in the final stages of planning of how we can bring a team focused final warfighting capstone physical education course that brings all of that physical education together for a team-focused event for our firsties, but still in the planning stages of that. And as discussed, updating our PT standards to align with our Air Force and our Space Force, with an acknowledgement that simply what we were doing is adding minimums to each of the caveats to ensure that you must pass each individual event while also meeting a score-based event as we move forward. Again, aligning with our Air Force and Space Force. Now, as we transform, it's not just about warfighters to win. It's also about leaders of character and quality. As I like to say, it's developing leaders who do the right thing the right way, even if it's unpopular, because we must have leaders that are willing to stand up and do the right thing for the formation. And we focused on that. We have focused on reinforcing standards and accountability. While initially it was permanent party coming in fairly strong to establish the standards and accountability, what we quickly saw from our amazing future generation was cadets going, “We've got this. We will establish it. We will uphold our standards. We will uphold our accountability.” And to me, that's very important to see that our next generation is taking ownership of that key leadership aspect, to even include honor. As many know, we had a pretty significant honor violation last year. The bad news is that occurred. The good news is it was the cadets themselves who came forward and said, “This happened, and this is our way forward.” As in all situations, though, anytime you point a finger at somebody, three fingers pointing back at yourself, we realized that institutionally, we had probably lowered the standards too far. We didn't expect enough, and we had parsed the Honor Code. And we made the decision to return to our roots and say, “No, the Honor Code is holistic. It will not be parsed.” But we do acknowledge that these amazing men and women that come from all four corners are coming to us in different stages of their character development, and so the sanctions that come from an honor violation for somebody with us for a few weeks or a couple months may be far different than the sanctions of somebody that are weeks or months out from commissioning and graduation. So ensuring that we have a tiered sanction system to deal with our honor violations. I'm very proud of the ownership that our cadets took with our honor system, and we are reinforcing their efforts as we move forward. We've also pivoted strongly to a four-class system. My observation was is through time at the Air Force Academy, we've ebbed and flowed from a four-class leadership development system to a fourth-class leadership development system. I would offer that we had gone to the point where the majority of training and focus was on the four-degrees, when we are blessed to have these our future leaders for 47 months, and we should be developing them the entire 47 months. And so we have developed the fourth-class leadership system, where for their four-degree year, we will focus them on being good teammates and followers. For the three-degree year, we will focus on them being good frontline engaged supervisors, two-degrees as team leaders and firsties as unit leaders, representing those roles in our Air Force from cadet squadron commander to DO, to executive officer, to A1 through A6 staff positions and flight commander and taking on those responsibilities. And again, just like we talked about work by training, there's assessment mechanisms for each of these that they must meet leadership assessments that will go into whether or not they are recognized and promoted to the next grade, as it moves forward. We executed the first year. Last year, I would offer that it was successful, but we've learned much from the process, and as we go into the second year, I think we're going to be able to go even further with our four-class leadership and development. We've also doubled down on discipline, that standards and accountability are important, and if you fail to meet our standards, then you must be held accountable, not only with punitive aspects, but also with rehabilitative aspects. It's a two-edged pincer movement as we went forward, and from my time at the Academy, I will offer to you, while I may not have enjoyed it at the time, I benefited greatly from both, because it forced me to reflect upon what got me in that situation and how I can take ownership of my own development as we move forward. So that is one of the aspects we return to. And then finally, for our National Character and Leadership Symposium: Let's focus on those character elements that we find through warfighting. And so last fall's was focused on, how are we going to develop warfighters to win? And then for next year, we're going to focus on the courage required to overcome adversity in a warfighting environment. And so I'm very excited as we get the speakers identified for both the fall, a shorter fall iteration, and the normal spring iteration, sharing those speakers with the wider alumni environment. And then finally, talking about those critical thinkers to adapt. I jokingly tell our cadets that, since I was in the '90s, we got to solve all the easy problems, and all that is left are all the wicked hard problems, but we need those critical thinkers to adapt, because they are going to bring the ingenuity, they're going to bring the innovation, and what I've challenged them is they also have to bring the courage to challenge the status quo. Too many times in our military, when we ask why we do something, if the answer is, “We've always done it that way,” then maybe we need to rethink and understand, are there better ways to do it? And I can tell you, our cadets bring that to bear. And so for this year, we're really focused on cadet empowerment and responsibility. Last year with the mandate, we moved very quickly, and we were more directive in nature. And what we heard loud and clear is that cadets hurdled over our expectations. What we heard loud and clear from them was, “We want to control the way forward.” And so how do we empower them more? And how do we make it clear that they are responsible not only for their mission, but their people? And adding to that of spending more time with them with these changes of why are we doing this change, and making sure that they understand the rest of the story. You may not always like the why, but if you have an appreciation of the why, its foundation will be able to execute mission command, because you now understand commander's intent, and you now can go, “I know the why. We can keep moving forward, because we can move forward with that.” We're also focusing on operationalizing all of the United States Air Force Academy, bringing that operational mindset to bear, from whether it would be establishing an A2 directorate in the headquarters and the cadet wing and in all cadet squadrons, and the DA2 director being our intelligence directorate, so that we can start to bring in classified intelligence briefings and give them not only to a permanent party, but to our future leaders. And we started that last January to great success, so that our future leaders can start to understand not only our and our allies capabilities, but our adversary capabilities and how we will conduct our joint warfighting aspects as we move forward. And it's important that we continue to bring in those operational matters so we prepare the cadets of today for the second lieutenants of tomorrow that can seamlessly nest in to how our Air Force and our Space Force operates. And that's a nicer way of saying is some of the USAFA unique things we've done— we probably need to think about how we're doing that in our Air Force and Space Force. We're also doubling down that cadet squadrons are the unit of action, just like it is in our Air Force, that the squadron is the unit of action. And it's tough at USAFA where you may prioritize your IC team, or your major, or your club, but at the end of the day, it's going to be the squadron that succeeds together as a team. And so we are focusing on making sure that we are reinforcing what the cadet squadrons are doing. They are going to go through their military training together. They're going to go through their culminating exercises together, same as recognition and promotion. And that's important as we focus on the four-class system of those teammates, followers, frontline engaged supervisors, team leaders, unit leaders, but also acknowledging that we must empower cadet leaders to own the responsibility of their units. And I recently sat down with cadet squadron commanders and their special staffs and said, “Congratulations, you're the cadet commanders. You are responsible for two things: your mission and your people. It's not just about marching at the front of a formation. It's about executing the mission you've been given, whether that mission be military, academics or athletics, and taking care of your people.” And as such, we have established special staffs inside of each cadet squadron, every wing in the Air Force, most groups and many squadrons have special staff to both support the unit, but more importantly, advise the commander, because the commander is the one who's ultimately responsible for their people. And so we are bringing cadet special staff — which they may not be the subject matter experts in equal opportunity, integrated prevention response, spiritual matters or medical matters. They are there to support the squadron, advise the commander and have that connectivity to our subject matter experts, whether it be our chaplaincy, whether that be our amazing medical group and cadet clinic, our amazing SAPR team and all the helping agencies across USAFA to make sure that we can support all of our cadets going through a high-demand developmental program at the United States Air Force Academy. And the twist on that is again, saying, “Commanders, you are the ones who are responsible.” And now let's give you the tools to be successful as the permanent party are there to advise and oversight, empower our cadets even more. And then the final one is a return to decorum training. We conducted a beta test last year to success, and now we're looking to see how we can bring forward that decorum training for the entirety of the Cadet Wing. I am not this is not a return to the days of wine pairings, you know, but it is an acknowledgement that as an officer in our Air Force and Space Force, when you go to events, you're not only representing yourself, you're representing your team, you're representing your unit. And what are those decorum skills you need to have at events so that you can develop networks with teammates that might be outside your normal operational circle, or how do you ensure how you engage with other teammates so you can learn more about the world you're in? And so it's important that we establish that decorum focus and looking forward to how we can squeeze that in into the complicated lives of all of our cadets as we move forward. And then, just to reinforce on the critical thinking, I've already talked about the three minors we added, but I'm proud to say that we're in close coordination right now with Gen. Tullos at Air University and about to sign the memorandum of understanding where we will start a beta test for offering master's degree classes at the United States Air Force Academy, with the long-term intent of offering master's degrees at United States Air Force Academy under the Air Force Institute of Technology certification. So we have much to learn, but the doorway is open, and I can tell you from looking at so many of our cadets that come in with 20, 30, 40 college credit hours already, I think we have cadets that are ready to take on that journey, and I look forward to giving an update on that after we get through some of our initial how does this work process. So just to summarize: Our mission, our vision, our priorities are delivering what we need. And it's those warrior leaders that are ready on Day 1 in our Air Force and Space Force. And thanks to our amazing team, whether it be in the senior leader team, but more importantly, those incredible permanent party that are working long hours, whether it's in Fairchild Hall, Sijan Hall, Vandenberg Hall, in the tunnels, in the heat plant, in the Child Development Center, down at Clune Arena, out in Jacks Valley — our permanent party are crushing it, and it's important because our nation deserves the best leaders that we can give the 330,000 airmen and guardians that are standing watch for our nation. Thank you.   Naviere Walkewicz Thank you for sharing the mission brief. I think many of us as graduates think we know what happens at the Academy, but you actually sharing what you accomplished in just a year is a bit mind blowing, sir.   Gen. Bauernfeind Thank you. And I, at times, am concerned at how fast we are moving, but I also know that we must move this fast. The adversaries are watching us, and they are choosing when is the right time to test our nation. And so in order to achieve peace through strength, we must display that deterrence, that warfighting ethos, that warfighting capability. So we keep our adversaries waking up every single morning going, “Today is not today to test the United States.”   Naviere Walkewicz Yes, sir, that is right on point. Yes, sir. Well, I would like to thank you in advance for taking on additional questions from our alumni and our graduate community. So if we might start, general, with some of the information across various channels that cuts about to our academics and the Department of Faculty, what would you be willing to share about the civilian workforce reductions and any next to the Academy's academic faculty?   Gen. Bauernfeind First and foremost, the reduction of civilians is not just civilian faculty. It's through all civilians at the United States Air Force Academy, and as we're tracking, throughout the entire Department of Defense. What makes it a little more challenging at the United States Air Force Academy is we have so many different civilian teammates, from firefighters to childcare workers to coaches to headquarters staff, personnel and faculty. And as we lean into the aspect, the conversations about all of our civilian teammates. The first challenge that we faced is historically, the United States Air Force Academy has been over our civilian paid budget, and we've received great support from the Department of Air Force to address our over execution. This year is a little different, and so that has to be a baseline consideration as we understand that— that we have to hire and maintain civilian teammates within the budget that the American public has given us as a lean forward. And to that point, thank you to the Association of Graduates and the Foundation, as well as other Academy-focused foundations that have provided volunteer and funded volunteer support to give us that additional margin of excellence that helps us mitigate this matter. With respect to fiscal year '25, our Air Force is going through a reduction of civilian personnel to the tune of 5,000 billets. Of those 5,000 billets, the portion of the United States Air Force Academy was a part of was a 140 billets. And as we have moved through that reduction of 140 billets, we identified 104 billets as we went through our prioritization that were unencumbered or empty, but lower priority. Unfortunately, there are 36 billets that were encumbered, so someone inside of that billet as we move forward. And the goal with that is to continually work over the coming months of how we can move teammates laterally into open billets, either at the United States Air Force Academy or other locations. So we keep their expertise inside of the greater Air Force, Space Force enterprise, and our A1 team continues to work that aspect. But it's also making sure that we're being very clear with our teammates that when those billets become unfunded, at some point without funding, we're having to pay for that billet via other means. And so it's important for us to have frank conversations with our teammates, to say, “Update your resume. Start looking. At some point this will move forward.” With respect to our faculty members, 16 took advantage of the government's deferred resignation program, which was a well-funded early retirement program which allowed them to leave in the spring under and basically on admin leave and retain their pay to later in the fall/winter timeframe as that moves forward. We also had three that already had planned retirements, so they were moving forward. Unfortunately, we see a hiring freeze so no backfill. But also three whose terms are many of our senior faculty, our term employees, at the end of their term came. And so we have backfilled them with active-duty and Reserve military faculty to keep our academic progress going forward. And thanks to our dean and their team, they are, you know, quickly adjusting, but they are making the changes they need to ensure that we continue to offer the majors that we promised through the Class of '26 and continue to offer the courses as we move forward. For the fall semester, in addition to the three minors we've added, we've also added four additional classes, and there are 10 classes of the 753 in our course of instruction, there are 10 that we will not offer in the fall semester, but we will continue to still move forward.   Naviere Walkewicz Yes, sir, thank you for that. You talked about backfills. Can you talk about some of the most important competencies for those instructors, as they were backfilling these positions right?   Gen. Bauernfeind As I testified to the Senate earlier this spring, the two most important things to me inside of our classroom is: One is subject matter expertise, and we value the subject matter expertise brought to us by our professors, associate professors, our assistant professors, our permanent professors, our senior military faculty, and the depth they provide, initially with a master's degree, but more importantly, those Ph.D.s that were an extreme depth of that subject matter expertise. But also as a military service academy— that operationally relevant experience, how do they apply what they're learning in the classroom into their futures in the Air Force and Space Force, whether that be in labs on operational units and future battlefields, and how they can connect that to the future. And we have many of our civilian faculty are also veterans, who are able to bring that strong connection to bear as it moves forward.   Naviere Walkewicz Yes, sir. Well, you mentioned you were adding a couple a few minors. Have there been any majors that have been removed from the program, and has this affected our accreditation in any way?   Gen. Bauernfeind No, ma'am, no majors have been impacted during this time. Every single year, we go through a curriculum review, and we have a curriculum review committee where we will adjust as we move forward based upon guidance we receive from the Air Force and Space Force, but also what demand signals we're seeing from our cadets. You know what they're signing up for. But that is just an annual aspect to make sure that we have the right instructor core to support the curriculum we need to develop and educate our future leaders what the Air Force and Space Force is expecting. But zero majors have been eliminated from the United States Air Force Academy.   Naviere Walkewicz Thank you, sir for clearing that up.   Gen. Bauernfeind Oh, and accreditation. We're in a good spot with accreditation. We maintain continual conversation with our accrediting bodies, whether it be the Higher Learning Commission or several of the engineering- or STEM-focused accrediting bodies such as ABET, we're still in a good spot. In fact, this year, we just approved our quality initiative, which is a key aspect to sustaining not only our accreditation, but showing that we're continuing to improve ourselves, and that quality initiative will focus strongly on data science, throughout all of our curriculum.   Naviere Walkewicz Yes, sir. I think that's wonderful. I know a lot of graduates were, you know, maybe didn't have all the information, so I think that's wonderful that you just shared that. Something interesting you talked about your brief was some master's, a beta testing for a master's program, working with AFIT. Can you expand a bit more about that? And then do you see the Academy becoming a five-year institution, or we will stay four years, 47 months?   Gen. Bauernfeind Right now, I believe that we will still stay a 47-month program because our academic program is 47 months; our athletic program is 47 months, and most importantly, our leadership development and military program is 47 months. For the AFIT program, the vision is — these amazing young Americans come in with so much academic credit. Many of them now are part of the Martinson Scholar Program. And thanks to Mr. Martinson's great support, we have a program that can focus on them going even further. What we can offer them now, the majority are taking multiple majors and multiple minors. What if, in the future, you didn't want to do multiple majors or minors, but you want to go and start on your master's degree, which many other institutes of higher learning are offering in a parallel aspect? And so in conversation with Gen. Tullos, how can we start allowing cadets as early as their junior year start taking master's programs and achieve what would be required? Initial assessment is we will have some that can probably achieve it in 47 months, but probably the greater group will need to stay the Academy for maybe six or 12 more months as a second lieutenant to finish up their AFIT courseware. So they would stop their 47-month USAFA program, but continue with their master's program in the classroom in Fairchild and finish out their master's here. Is the vision— and we're working through this. I want to be very clear that this is beta. We have a lot to learn in this. And from my perspective, as I work with the Air Force to get greater support for this, this is going to be a strong cost saver for the Air Force. When our Air Force officers go to get master's degree, as a general rule, they are out of their operational career field for two years as they go to execute their 18-month AFIT program, plus two associated PCSs. Now we show not only a time saving, but a cost savings. And now these second lieutenants are entering, a portion of them, are entering their air force or Space Force with a master's degree. And it is not uncommon for many of our second lieutenants right now to even start their initial training, depending on what training is available until the spring of the next year after they graduate. So I see a strong promise, but we've got a lot of work to do to make it a reality.   Naviere Walkewicz Yes, sir. Well, that's creative and innovative thinking right there. I think that we're very excited to hear more about that, especially as the beta testing moves forward. Sir, maybe we can move into the warfighting realm. Graduates have been very interested in the renewed focus on warfighting that you've taken over the past year. What recent programs or military training taking place at USAFA right now are really supporting this development of the warfighter. Ready to lead on Day 1?   Gen. Bauernfeind So I believe we've always had a strong foundation of warfighting training, whether it be our airmanship programs, our powered flight programs, our jump programs, our special warfare programs and basic cadet training and cadet survival. But we're building upon that, and we're adding to those as great examples. As discussed earlier, if we can fight for the ammunition, we will have every single cadet qualify on both weapons every single year. The Class of '29 for the M18, the pistol, they qualified at a rate at about 65%. For the M4, the long gun, at a rate of 93%. I'm very proud of those numbers, because many of those young men and women— that was the first time they touched a weapon in their lives. And now, if they do it three more times before they graduate, those qualification rates are going to skyrocket, and they're going to have the confidence, when they deploy into harm's way, of their weapons. Additionally, thanks to the great work by the Cadet Wing, we have received 4,000 sets of chemical gear. And so not only in basic training, are they learning how to establish a forward operating base, defend it, but we're going past the days of where we walked into a tent, took our mask off and then dealt with the wonderful fluids that came out of our bodies. But now, going forward, to how are you going to conduct ATSO operations, or the ability to survive and operate in deployed locations with chemical gear on? And we're very proud to partake in some of that training with the basic cadets, and they are really taking to understanding what is required. And then the final aspect is, as discussed, the cadet warfighter instructor course, is acknowledging that to be really good at those items, we need some subject matter expertise. But the subject matter expertise required to lead, train and certify 4,000 cadets every year, we have to rely on cadet leaders, and as discussed, they're in the field as we speak in the inaugural cadet warfighter instructor course. And I look forward to seeing the feedback of how they will come back and do the squadrons. And tying that back to the cadets wanting more ownership of their training — the intent is 12 cadets inside of each cadet squadron that will now take on the responsibility through the academic year of that warfighter training that we will assess in the fall CULEX, and the ultimate assessment in the spring CULEX.   Naviere Walkewicz Sir, it really shows how you're building that expertise within the squadron to support the squadron commander so they really are taking care of their people. I think that's outstanding.   Gen. Bauernfeind And very excited about it.  And I just want to say thank you again, because it was due to the generosity of the Foundation that got us the seed to start the automation, with 29 Group 2, the smaller UAVs, as we see automation and all monitor warfighting, unleashing the cadets on how they're going to use those UAVs to defend their forward operating bases, to understand what's across the ridgeline as they move forward. And very excited to see where the cadets will take us in this, because I'm sure they're gonna be far more innovative than my generation.   Naviere Walkewicz Our generation, sir, yes, sir. Well, you talked about the four-class system and I think that was really relevant for our graduates to hear. How are cadets feeling motivated through this process? And have you seen them evolve over the past year since you started implementing that?   Gen. Bauernfeind I think the first aspect was— it took them time to truly understand what we were laying out as it went forward. And every year we do this, we will get a little more advanced at the end of the day. I think our four-degrees understood it. That was good. It was that they understood what it meant to be a teammate. What it meant to be a teammate, follower, and that was an easier aspect to develop them through. The team leaders at the senior NCO level for the two-degrees and the firsties as unit leaders, they started understanding that. The biggest challenge we saw was with the three-degrees. What does it mean to be a frontline, engaged supervisor? And we have to troop lead them through, “This is what it means to be a frontline, engaged supervisor.” That they are your subordinate. But to take best care of your people, you should know where they're from. You should know about their parents. You should know their dog's name. You should know where their birthday is. You should know when their next chemistry test is, when their next PT test is. And while you may not be able to tutor them on chemistry, you can gather and motivate them for, “Hey, if the PT test is three weeks out, let's go run together. Let's go get on the pull up bar together. Let's, you know, be engaged.” And the more you know your teammates, what I offer to you, whether it be in morning formation, noon meal formation, at the tables at Mitchell Hall, in the halls of your squadron, inside of 30 seconds you're gonna see your teammates, your subordinate, and you're gonna know if they're gonna have a good day or bad day, because you're close enough to know, just quickly, OK, they're gonna have a great day or something's going on. “Let's go take a walk. Let's figure out what's driving you down. And how can I, as a frontline engaged supervisor, start taking barriers out of your way?”   Naviere Walkewicz I mean, I can only imagine that giving them more pride, even now that they understand, “This is how I can be a frontline supervisor,” when you give us very specific examples. Well, if we might shift gears a little bit to admissions and graduation. Since we just had a class join us, and we had a class recently graduate, maybe you can tell us how the Class of '29 how they're faring so far.   Gen. Bauernfeind The Class of '29 are doing great. I am impressed by their professionalism. I'm impressed by their energy. And as you saw, as we just did the recent march back, they were loud and proud. That was really good as it went forward. And for the Class of '29, I'm proud to report that they are faring very well. Just so everybody knows, we had over 9,000 completed applications. We offered 1,411 offers of admission, and 1,112 took the oath on I-Day as it moved forward. We had cadets from every single state and territories of Guam and Puerto Rico, as well as 12 international cadets that joined us. Of those, 117 from Prep School came up the Hill. And then 76 are, you know, part of a prior Long Blue Line as it's coming forward as it goes. Of the Class of '29, 55% were in the top 10% of their class, and 96 were all invited on varsity sports. Right now we are, as coming out of basic training, of 1,095 and during that time, they're still going strong. We did have some teammates that didn't have a full appreciation of what military life was, or may not have been as impassioned about the Academy as their parents, and so we've parted ways with a few small numbers. But during basic training, I can proudly say— we talked about the qualifications on the weapons, but also say they took their very first PFT test, and looking back over the last five years, they, on average, scored 15 points higher than the last five years. And that's a testament to two teams, I would offer to you, well, not only the cadets themselves, who had to do it, but all of our admissions team that's out there saying, “Hey, congratulations, you've been admitted. Start preparing now.” But also our athletic director, athletic department team that was out there giving them good, focused training to prepare them for those physical fitness tests. And they just took PFT No. 2 a couple days ago, and we're accessing the data but all indications are it's trending up.   Naviere Walkewicz No, yes, sir. Those are outstanding numbers. As a country, we're seeing admission rates and the challenge of getting the best of the best into the door, the fact that we had such wonderful numbers coming in, and we're attriting very low, I think it's something we should be proud of.   Gen. Bauernfeind I'm very proud of it, but acknowledge it's a tough— it's a knife fight to get the best of the brightest, and so thanks to Air Education and Training Command and Accessions Command, we are going to try a new marketing contract this year to further make sure that the amazing young Americans throughout all four corners truly understand the opportunity in front of them with the Air Force Academy, and make sure they're aware of it. So I'm excited to see how that marketing campaign goes to even up our numbers, even a little bit more.   Naviere Walkewicz Awesome. Yes, sir. Well, sir, in the realm of athletics, last year, you shared an emphasis for cadet support and participation at more of our athletic events. What have you seen come from that? And what can you share about athletics, intramurals most currently?   Gen. Bauernfeind It's one of our three mission sets: athletics. And it's not just for our IC athletes. I jokingly tell some of the teammates to say, “Tell me about a cadets life.” It's like, well, they have three full time jobs, a military job, an academic job and an athletic job, and they really get a bachelor of science in time management. And that's as we go forward. But I've asked the athletic department, you know, during COVID, our intramural program atrophied, and now we have to see, how can we really enhance our intramurals as it goes forward. But I'm especially also proud of our intercollegiate athletes, 30 intercollegiate programs. When we talk about the blood, sweat, tears, the hard work that our IC athletes representing 25% of the Cadet Wing — they are really jumping in hard. And my expectations as the superintendent is all 30 of those programs earn home field advantage. And so we've recently published an operation order to the team as we look into the fall sports. And the basic synthesis of it is, protect this house. We will come strong to all home events, and we're working through that aspect. And so as a whole, not only will we figure out how to be strong at all of our home events, whether it be, you know, this fall with women's soccer, men's soccer, cross country, water polo, volleyball and, importantly, football. And proud to report here at our AOG that the entire Cadet Wing will be marching onto the football field and protecting this house and our amazing stadium at home games.   Naviere Walkewicz Yes, sir, thank you for that. That's fantastic. Sir, you know, you can't come out of this Air Force Academy, this 18,000 acres of amazing Academy, without seeing some of the changes, whether it's facilities or capabilities. You know, of course, there are two questions we hear often about the chapel in the box. When will the chapel be done? And then also, you know, what about the visitor center? When can we actually get into it?   Gen. Bauernfeind No, those are two great questions, Naviere. First of all, I think that the box has become so routine there that we received a formal request from cadet. So how can we have a — no kidding — drive in movie theater screen? And the request came in at $300,000 so we thought the prudent action was, let's get the chapel done so we can take the box down instead of putting up a new theater. But right now, for our chapel, again, it is an amazing piece of architecture, and to maintain the historical relevance and the hard work that went behind it, it's going to take time. Right now, we're on schedule for 2028 and we are focused on making sure all the involved teams take every single day out and we can find out as soon as possible when we have any sort of deviation, so we can swarm it. And so as such, we hold monthly meetings with IMSC — the Installation Management Sustainment Command — Air Force Civil Engineering Command, the Corps of Engineers, to go through all of our military construction projects so that if something comes up, we are aware of it within days of the issue, and we swarm it together instead of letting issues boil for a long period of time. And so excited to get the chapel back open as such a spiritual icon of the United States Air Force Academy. And spirituality is so important to the holistic leader's readiness— not just physical, mental, social, family, but also spiritual. And I think it will be important for that development. And then to the visitor center. We're on track to open up in May of '26 before the graduation, and excited to finally open that visitor center and share with a much wider audience what all of our alumni and we know of the amazing story behind the Air Force Academy, all the amazing exemplars who have come from our Academy. And I will share with you, I'm excited to get a whole ton of young Americans inside the visitor center so they can start getting excited about being part of the Class of 2032, 2038 and beyond.   Naviere Walkewicz Yes, sir. Well, they say things are worth the wait, good things are worth the wait, and I think the interactive displays that are gonna come with this are really gonna help people understand truly what our cadets go through.     Gen. Bauernfeind Absolutely. And thank you again to the AOG and Foundation. As money got tight, the Foundation came forward and we now have that beautiful glider, you know, in position that shows what all of our cadets are working through.   Naviere Walkewicz Yes, sir. Well, our sole existence is to support the Academy, serve our grads and prserve the heritage. Well, sir, I'm cognizant of your time. We're so grateful you're here today. Mind if I ask you one final question?   Gen. Bauernfeind Please do.   Naviere Walkewicz What's on your mind that you want to leave with our graduates to be thinking about when you think about our Academy and your vision and mission. What can you leave us with?   Gen. Bauernfeind I just want to thank the Long Blue Line. We are 55,000-plus strong. There have been so many of our alumni, every single one of us that have gone through this journey. And we're proud of this institution. And I just say, continue to support this amazing institution. Spread the good word of what our Air Force Academy is, because we want amazing young women, amazing young men that are in your communities, in your churches, at your work centers, to say, “Hey, have you heard about the Air Force Academy? That's the place for you, because our nation deserves the best.” And just a final thanks to the alumni, and as a superintendent, I'm proud to be in this position with my amazing teammates. And any alumni that wants to ask me, “What's the rest of the story?” I am always available. Please hit me up in the hallways, on the Terrazzo, on the field, and I look forward to your conversations.   Naviere Walkewicz This has been a special edition of the Air Force Gradcast. On behalf of the Long Blue Line Podcast Network and the U.S. Air Force Academy Association & Foundation, thank you for joining us. It's been a privilege to hear directly from Lt. Gen. Bauernfeind and to share updates and perspectives relevant to graduates across our Academy community. Thank you for your continued connection, commitment and support of our United States Air Force Academy. I'm Lt. Col. (Ret.) Naviere Walkewicz, Class of '99. Until next time.       The Long Blue Line Podcast Network is presented by the U.S. Air Force Academy Association & Foundation  

Send us a textThe Ones Ready crew is back in the team room with another unapologetic ops brief. Peaches kicks things off by dragging coneheads who fail day one fitness tests and then launches into the week's wild ride of military news. Marines get their obligatory “media hero” spotlight, the Army unveils another tilt-rotor science project (because clearly we learned nothing from the V-22), and Peaches calls for the resurrection of the mighty MH-53.From record female enlistments to the Space Force playing with quantum sensors (while the rest of us can't even get quantum computers), this episode goes from shade-throwing to straight-up “WTF are we doing?” moments. Add in an orbital aircraft carrier concept ripped straight from an Avengers script, PCS moves frozen by broke budgets, and a National Guard soldier stopping a mall assault—yeah, this one's got it all.If you want watered-down headlines, go watch the news. If you want sarcasm, blunt truth, and a reminder that sometimes the Pentagon makes decisions with a Magic 8-Ball—welcome to Ones Ready.⏱️ Timestamps:00:00 – Welcome to Ones Ready (and Peaches' selection rant) 01:15 – Sponsor shoutout: creatine gummies > failing day-one tests 02:05 – Marines deploy (cue dramatic news voice) 03:12 – Record female enlistments and why it matters 03:45 – 85 years of airborne—still jumping, still relevant 04:20 – National Guard soldier breaks up a mall assault 04:50 – Army rolls out tilt-rotor 2.0 (what could go wrong?) 06:15 – Bring back the MH-53, dammit 06:35 – Carrier Strike Group returns to San Diego 07:05 – Northern Edge 2025 flexing in Alaska 07:45 – $635M Army munitions buy—still not enough 08:40 – Air Force freezes PCS moves (again) 09:40 – F-16s get AR training goggles 10:15 – Indo-Pacific logistics exercise: “can we even move?” 10:45 – Hill AFB tests wartime readiness 11:15 – Space Force preps X-37 Bravo mission with quantum sensors 12:00 – Guardians get a new grooming standard (yes, seriously) 12:45 – Space Systems Delta activation 13:20 – Deep Space Radar keeps eyes on orbit 13:50 – GPS jamming and spoofing 101 15:15 – USAFA leadership drama and Lomer's visit 16:00 – Trump's NATO talksSupport the showJoin this channel to get access to perks: HEREBuzzsprout Subscription page: HERECollabs:Ones Ready - OnesReady.com 18A Fitness - Promo Code: ONESREADY ATACLete - Follow the URL (no promo code): ATACLeteCardoMax - Promo Code: ONESREADYDanger Close Apparel - Promo Code: ONESREADYDFND Apparel - Promo Code: ONESREADYHoist - Promo Code: ONESREADYKill Cliff - Pr...

“Bud” Nevers grew up in Spokane, attended a small private HS (without team sports), and became a great golfer. This led him to an athletic appointment to USAFA which was a culture shock to say the least. While a cadet he did 3rd Lt at Edwards and asked for heavy airlift which excited him enough to stay around undo graduate, complete UPT, and become a C-141 pilot. After his first tour he snagged an assignment back at the zoo as a golf coach. From there he left active duty and began flying tankers in the USAF Reserve while also flying for USAIR. Twenty years later they merged with another airline which sidelined Bud for a bit when he became a financial advisor. He returned to flying after a few years and finally really retired at 65. He lives in Spokane again and raised two sons. Enjoy Bud Nevers!

Send us a textPeaches kicks off this drop swinging at everything from the chaos in D.C. to the ridiculous idea that military academies ever needed race-based admissions. National Guard troops are back in the capital because apparently it's become Mad Max with monuments. Cyber interns get a salute for their terrifyingly cool hacking skills, a World War I badass gets long-overdue recognition, and Space Force is about to light off the Vulcan rocket like it's the Fourth of July. There's also some sharp-shooting at West Point, desert fun with the Marines, and a not-so-subtle reminder that your enemy doesn't give a damn about your DEI training—they just want you dead. Strap in.

Retired Fighter Pilot Randy "Laz" Gordon explains how the F-22 changed the air battlefield and why it was built to win the first fight.In this episode, Randy discusses the 70-plus aircraft he has flown, his combat career, test-flying fighter jets, and how artificial intelligence is shaping the future of aviation. We'll also explore some of the Raptor's surprising similarities to civilian Cessna aircraft, and why, in some ways, the Skyhawk is a harder airplane to manage. From flying a zeppelin to iconic planes like the F-15, "Laz" has done it all. This one is going to be cool!Episode 60 marks the end of Season 6. We will be taking a short break, but are excited to bring you more stories in Season 7, coming this fall. Resources:Special Lecture: F-22 Flight Controls (YouTube) Randy's Bio The F-22 Raptor (Lockheed Martin)Chapters:(00:00) - Intro (01:35) - Flying 70+ Aircraft (02:47) - Aviation Beginnings (06:10) - The USAFA (09:03) - What Makes a Good Pilot? (11:29) - Flight Training (13:18) - The F-15 vs. F-16 (15:59) - Flying the A-10 (17:44) - Combat in Iraq (21:08) - Flying the F-22 (26:08) - Cessna vs. F-22 (28:11) - Raptor Mindset (31:11) - Radar-absorbing Material (32:39) - Stealth Airframe (35:55) - Supercruise (39:41) - The Human and the Jet (42:18) - Test Flying Aircraft (44:43) - Why the F-15 was Hard to Master (45:24) - A Dangerous Moment (48:05) - How AI Will Impact Aviation (53:34) - F-22 Legacy (55:13) - Randy's Advice (57:40) - Outro

Need financing for your next investment property? Visit: https://www.academyfund.com/ Want to join us in San Francisco, CA on October 7th & 8th? Visit: https://www.10xvets.com/events ____ Kevin Rainey is a certified breathwork coach, former Air Force officer, and seasoned project manager with over 20 years of experience leading programs around the world. A graduate of the U.S. Air Force Academy, he built his career in Information Technology and Communications, known for bringing camaraderie, community, and grit to every team he led. His journey took a powerful turn during a breathwork and cold plunge session that sparked deep personal transformation. He lost weight, reversed sleep apnea, and found a natural way to manage depression. That experience inspired him to launch a coaching practice dedicated to helping others, especially men and veterans, reconnect with their bodies and strengthen their emotional resilience. Through one-on-one coaching and group cohorts, Kevin teaches breathwork routines that support nervous system regulation, mental clarity, and long-term well-being. His mission is to teach 1 million men how to use breath to improve their lives, families, and communities. In this episode of the SABM podcast, Scott chats with Kevin about: Transformational Start: A powerful breathwork and cold plunge session helped Kevin release years of stored emotional trauma, sparking a complete personal transformation  Breath as Self-Empowerment: Kevin teaches techniques that help people build confidence, emotional balance, and inner peace by tapping into their body's natural rhythm.  Coaching Approach: His sessions are practical and customized, focused on breathwork techniques that energize, calm, or balance, depending on client needs.  Community-Focused Mission Kevin's goal is to teach 1 million men how to build daily breathwork practices, creating stronger individuals, families, and communities.  Timestamps: 00:52 Discovering Breathwork 03:22 The Power of Breathwork 09:19 Breathwork Techniques and Coaching 15:35 Goals and Challenges Connect with Kevin: LinkedIn https://www.kevinwraney.com/  If you found value in today's episode, don't keep it to yourself—share it with a colleague or friend who could benefit. And if you're a Service Academy graduate ready to elevate your business, we'd love for you to join our community and get started today. Make sure you never miss an episode—subscribe now and help support the show: Apple Podcasts Spotify Leave us a 5-star review! A special thank you to Kevin for joining me this week. Until next time! -Scott Mackes, USNA '01

Need financing for your next investment property? Visit: https://www.academyfund.com/ Want to join us in San Francisco, CA on October 7th & 8th? Visit: https://www.10xvets.com/events ____ Richard Kenny is the founder of Falcon Capital Real Estate and Valuation Pro, bringing together decades of valuation expertise with a focus on innovation in commercial real estate. At Falcon Capital, he helps partners access institutional-grade deals by providing co-GP capital, underwriting support, and strategic insight on complex transactions. Valuation Pro, his AI-powered platform, delivers fast, accurate property valuations for investors, brokers, and assessors, helping streamline decision-making and reduce turnaround time. A U.S. Air Force Academy graduate and former Contracting Officer, Richard grew up in the appraisal world and has led valuation work across more than 35 states. His experience spans a wide range of asset types, from strip malls and solar farms to subsurface minerals and other complex properties. Now focused on scaling Valuation Pro, Richard brings a rare blend of field expertise and technology-forward thinking to the commercial real estate space. In this episode of the SABM podcast, Scott chats with Richard about: Accessible Real Estate Investing: Falcon Capital lowers entry barriers for real estate investors.  Fast, AI Powered Valuations: Valuation pro delivers AI-powered reports in under an hour.  Broad, Specialized Appraisal Experience: Appraisal work spans unique assets in 35+ states. Appraiser-Led Underwriting Insight: Appraiser insights lead to stronger investment decisions.  Launch-Ready Tech Platform: Valuation Pro is gearing up for a public debut.  Timestamps: 0:43 Richard's Background and Journey into Real Estate.  02:11 Founding Falcon Capital  04:27 Introduction to Valuation Pro  06:50 Appraisal Industry Insights  11:41 Valuation Pro's Functionality and Target Market 18:04 Future Plans and Goals Connect with Richard: LinkedIn Email: richard@richardkenny.com   If you found value in today's episode, don't keep it to yourself—share it with a colleague or friend who could benefit. And if you're a Service Academy graduate ready to elevate your business, we'd love for you to join our community and get started today. Make sure you never miss an episode—subscribe now and help support the show: Apple Podcasts Spotify Leave us a 5-star review! A special thank you to Richard Kenny for joining me this week. Until next time! -Scott Mackes, USNA '01

Send us a textThe Air Force is bleeding instructors, CENTCOM's next boss is a mystery wrapped in vagueness, and the B-2 is getting a glow-up because, well, the B-21 still isn't ready. In this Daily Drop, Jared dives into the military's latest budget frenzy, Iran's Cold War cosplay, and why creatine is now part of his mental warfare toolkit. From wildfires pulling Guard troops off security gigs to Cyber Command begging for updated dial-up, it's another day of chaos, caffeine, and congressional cash grabs. Oh—and Space Force is building GPS knockoffs just in case things get really spicy. Buckle up, nerds.

What does it take to lead at every level and shape the leaders of tomorrow? SUMMARY Long Blue Line podcast host, Lt. Col. (Ret.) Naviere Walkewicz '99 sat with Maj. Gen. Thomas P. Sherman '95, the U.S. Air Force Academy's vice superintendent, for a deep dive into leadership, humanity and building a world-class service academy. This episode is packed with wisdom for aspiring, emerging, and seasoned leaders alike.   SHARE LINKEDIN  |  FACEBOOK   GEN. SHERMAN'S TOP 10 LEADERSHIP TAKEAWAYS  - Leadership is a human experience - focus on connecting with and caring about people.  - Love what you do and love the people you lead; passion inspires others to follow you.  - Embrace failures and challenges as opportunities for personal growth and development.  - Set the right culture and values within your team to build trust and mutual support.  - Be present and engaged with your team, understanding their motivations and experiences.  - Leadership is about more than rank or position - it's about earning genuine trust and respect.  - Invest time in understanding different generations, cultural nuances, and individual perspectives.  - Balance professional excellence with personal growth and life experiences.  - Support your team's development by providing encouragement and holding them accountable.  - Your legacy is built through individual interactions and the positive impact you have on people's lives.   CHAPTERS 00:00 Introduction to Major General Thomas P. Sherman 01:29 Choosing Leadership Over Flying 07:23 The Impact of Mentorship and Values 12:46 Heritage and Evolution of Security Forces 17:43 Personal Growth in Aviano, Italy 24:17 The Importance of Work-Life Balance 29:50 Culminating Command Experience at Bagram 42:25 The Role of Family in Leadership 51:29 Continuous Self-Improvement as a Leader 56:27 Embracing Failure as a Growth Opportunity 01:00:06 Legacy and the Impact of Leadership   ABOUT GEN. SHERMAN BIO Maj. Gen. Thomas P. Sherman is the Vice Superintendent of the U.S. Air Force Academy in Colorado Springs, CO. He is serving as the chief operations officer to the Superintendent and overseeing the Academy's blend of military training, academics, athletics, and character development for cadets. Gen. Sherman commissioned in 1995 from the Academy with a Bachelor of Science in Political Science. He built a distinguished career as a security forces officer. He's held command at nearly every level. His key assignments include leadership of the 88th Air Base Wing at Wright-Patterson AFB and critical staff positions at the Pentagon. In May 2024, Gen. Sherman was tapped to serve as the Academy's Vice Superintendent   CONNECT WITH GEN. SHERMAN LINKEDIN     ALL PAST LBL EPISODES  |  ALL LBLPN PRODUCTIONS AVAILABLE ON ALL MAJOR PODCAST PLATFORMS       TRANSCRIPT SPEAKERS Guest, Maj. Gen. Thomas P. Sherman '95  |  Host, Lt. Col. (ret.) Naviere Walkewicz '99   Naviere Walkewicz  00:00 Welcome to Long Blue Leadership, the podcast where we share insights on leadership through the lives and experiences of Air Force Academy graduates. I'm Naviere Walkewicz, Class of '99 today. I'm joined by a leader whose career has taken him from the flight line to the halls of Congress and now back to the very institution that launched it all. Maj. Gen. Thomas P. Sherman currently serves as vice superintendent of the Air Force Academy, where he plays a critical role in guiding the development of our future officers and ensuring the Academy remains a world class institution for leadership, character and Day 1 readiness to win the future fight. A 1995 Academy graduate, Gen. Sherman has spent nearly three decades serving in key operational, strategic and command roles. He's led at every level, from squadron to wing command, and his assignments have included everything from nuclear security enterprise to homeland defense, policy development at the Pentagon, and legislative affairs at the highest levels of the Department of the Air Force. Prior to his role as vice superintendent, Gen. Sherman served in the Office of the Deputy Secretary of Defense, where he was a principal military assistant leading policy integration across joint staff, interagency services and combatant commands. He's perhaps best known in command circles for leading the 88th Air Base wing at Wright Patterson Air Force Base in Ohio, one of the largest and most complex wings in the Air Force, with a focus on people first, leadership and mission excellence. Gen. Sherman, welcome to Long Blue Leadership. We're so glad you're here too.   MAJ. GEN. SHERMAN  01:32 It is great to be here. Thank you.   Naviere Walkewicz  01:33 We're excited and we're going to dive right in, because I think what is so special for our listeners is really hearing these moments that have changed your life. I'd like to start at the Academy. You turned down a pilot slot. You were rated, but said no.   MAJ. GEN. SHERMAN  01:48 Well, actually it was a little bit before that. You know, it's kind of interesting, because that was the draw that brought me here, is I just had this incredible passion to want to fly, and I love flying, and I truly enjoyed it, especially through all the different airmanship programs and things like and things like that we had here. The experiences were fantastic. But, you know, as I was starting to learn more about myself going through the Academy, I was starting to feel my heart getting pulled in a direction of wanting to really lead people and really spend a lot of time working with the enlisted. And I think that came from a couple different areas. I think it was some really unique exposure that I got during my ops Air Force time, which I went to Ramstein Air Base in Germany, during ops, and just had our action officer that worked this, I think just did a phenomenal job. And I really started getting pulled to what was then called security police. That is actually when Laurie and I got together and started dating, because Laurie is here in Colorado Springs, but she grew up as an Air Force brat. My father-in-law is a retired Chief Master Sgt., and so there was a lot of mentorship that was taking place around dining room table when I was a young cadet. And I think one of the things that her parents really taught me was just the value of the enlisted force, and so I was feeling my heart really getting pulled. And so obviously, there's a conundrum. There's a conundrum on what were the root desires that brought me here — what were the things that I was learning as a cadet, my joy of flying, and also, particularly the culture at that time, was that that was really the job that you needed to aspire to be, that was the expectation of cadets. And so then to really kind of run counter to that strong current was really kind of a unique, you know, almost unnavigated area, right? And so to really kind of take the story out to its next level is that I'd really gotten to a point where talking with people there — we hadn't had the AMT program, but there were these NCOs that were kind of tangentially attached to cadet squadrons. And so I got a chance to talk to one of the master sergeants that was there who was a maintainer by background. And I was kind of pouring my heart out to him on, you know, what had I been talking to him with my now in-laws, about where was my heart pulling me? And so he said, ‘Give me just a second.' And he picked up the phone, and he called my AOC and he goes, ‘Hey, you're gonna be there for a little while.' And this was a Friday afternoon. He said, ‘I got a cadet that needs to come talk to you.' And he hangs up the phone and he goes, ‘Now you go tell your AOC what you just told me.' And so I ended up going to my AOCs office that day, and we had about a two-hour conversation about this. I sat down and really, kind of took the time to explain to him what was I feeling, And obviously, I really try to see the best in people. And so I think from a noble place, he was doing his best to convince me that I was making a grave mistake. And went on to talk to me about what his concerns were, the career field that I was looking at, things along those lines. And we can save that conversation for another time, but I think really where the foundation came in is where we started to talk about leadership. And you know, what I was asking him to do was to pull my rated recommendation form, so we had just submitted them, and I was asking him to pull my rated recommendation form. I didn't want to compete for it anymore. And so we started to talk about leadership. And he says, ‘Hey, Cadet Sherman, you need to understand that leadership in this Air Force is being the lead F-16 pilot on a bombing run, you know, putting iron on target.' And that's true. It's a very important part of leadership. It is a very important part of tactical operational leadership in this Air Force. So he's not wrong in that space. But I was looking at it from a different lens, and I was looking at it, I think, on a larger level. And what I don't think he realized is that 30 seconds before I walked into his office, he set me up for success. I just happened to be waiting outside the office, and all of a sudden, I looked on his cork board, and somebody, and I don't know who it was, had pinned a note that was written to Airman Magazineby an airman first class. And this airman first class titled this, “I need a leader.” And this A1C felt so strongly about what they were feeling — and I have no idea who this person was — felt so strongly about it that they put pen to paper, and this would have been the fall of 1994, and sent this into Airman Magazine, and it says, “I need a leader.” Commissioning sources. ‘Send us lieutenants that we can look up to that will hold us accountable when we do wrong, that will encourage us when we do well, that will be an example that we can look up to, that will care about us as human beings, because you are not sending them to us now. Air Force, I need a leader.' Like that 30 seconds just before I walked into his office — that changed my life, and it changed my life, because for me, at that moment, what I was getting ready to go ask my AOC to do, what I was looking at inside myself, that became my charge. And so as we spoke, you know, 20-year-old Cadet First Class Sherman — I might have been a 21-year-old at the time — Cadet First Class Sherman pushed back on my AOC, and I said, ‘Sir, I disagree.' I said, ‘I want to be that guy. I want to be that guy that that A1c is asking for on your cork board outside, because that's leadership in this Air Force.' And so, to his credit, he said, ‘Hey, I want you to go think about this over the weekend. You know, think about what you're doing. Come back to me on Monday. No questions asked. I'll pull it if you want me to.' And I left there, and I remember feeling like, not like a weight had been lifted off my shoulder, but I almost felt like this sense of like, ‘Now I've got my purpose,' because that little article has shaped me my entire career, and I mean to this day, and at a scale. You know, as a lieutenant, my scale is this big on what I'm affecting to help do and be what that A1C needs to a wing commander. I always keep it in the back of my head, and after all of these years, I am still thinking about, Am I doing right by that A1C that 31 years ago, felt so strongly about something that they wrote a note to Airman Magazine, and that became my charge.   Naviere Walkewicz  08:09 That is incredibly powerful. I'm a little bit without words, because I'm thinking about, first off, being brave enough to disagree with an AOC. I mean, I think that takes courage in showing your leadership there. Were you always like that? Have you always been someone that is steadfast in a decision and being able to kind of speak out?   MAJ. GEN. SHERMAN  08:30 So I get that from my parents. And, you know, I grew up in Corona, California. My mom and dad are amazing people. And we didn't grow up with a lot of money, and we grew up from a pretty meager background, and my mom and dad had made a decision early on in their marriage, when they had my sister and I, that my mom was going to focus to make sure that Nancy and I got an education, and my dad was going to work as many jobs as he had to to put food on the table. And sometimes my dad was holding down three jobs to make sure that we had nutritious food to eat, and my mom was working miracles to make sure that we were fed well, but that also that she was dedicated and had the time to volunteer for things like PTA, being involved as a class volunteer, making sure that we were involved in things and had exposure to things that what they did was they also instilled in me this really strong blue collar work ethic. And it was this aspect of, if I just roll up my sleeves and put in the work, anything is possible. And so on that line, this young kid growing up with a West Coast father and an East Coast mother, and just this, really neat family background that things for me, that I believed in I would go after with all of my heart and soul. And so I found out about the Academy when I was 12 years old. And so, you know, when I at 12 years — we were going to a community event there in Corona, and there was an officer recruiter — Capt. Craig. was her name — and we started talking. She says, ‘Hey, did anybody talk to you about the Air Force Academy?' And I said, ‘No, this sounds great.' So from there, I just made this decision as a 12-year-old, and I worked all the way through junior high and high school to get here, because to go to your point like, ‘I made a decision, I'm gonna see this thing through.'   Naviere Walkewicz  10:30 Whoa. OK, so you knew you were going to the Academy before you graduated high school.   MAJ. GEN. SHERMAN  10:35 Yes, in my mind, there was no other option.   Naviere Walkewicz  10:39 And so anyone in your family serve, or were you the first one in your family to serve?   MAJ. GEN. SHERMAN  10:43 So I am the first officer and career member of the family. My dad was drafted and went to Vietnam in 1967 and stayed through Tet of 1968. I had an uncle, Harry Lee Schmidt, who was a C-47 loadmaster in World War II and Korea, and my grandfather was actually a part of the initial kind of what was the foundation of the OSS and the Navy doing beach recon on beaches in the South Pacific, prior to island hopping campaign and island landings. And so there was this real heritage of service, right? Just not career service. But even then, as a kid, I always had in my mind, ‘OK, one way or another, I'm going to serve, and if I do an enlistment and then go to college afterwards —' but I had this idea that, ‘OK, I'm going to serve,' and then all of a sudden, this became this amazing conduit that got me here, right?   Naviere Walkewicz  11:38 And they also had ties to aviation. How did they feel about your decision, your family?   MAJ. GEN. SHERMAN  11:43 It was interesting, because they knew how passionate I was about aviation growing up. I mean, we did not miss an air show at March Air Force Base, the Chino air show, which was planes of fame, which was all historic aircraft. I volunteered as a high school student to work there, and we helped restore airplanes with me and my friends. You know, it was interesting, because my parents were very supportive in ‘OK, where's your heart leading you? And, what makes you feel so strongly about this?' Because when I first talked to him on the phone, I called him from Ramstein Air Base and said, ‘Hey, I think I know what I want to do in the Air Force. I want to go to security police. And my mom was like, ‘What's that? And, so, as time went by and I explained it, I think my parents probably all along knew that that was probably going to be a very good fit. And then after commissioning and at my first assignment, I think that they were certain of it, right? Yeah, they were absolutely certain.   Naviere Walkewicz  12:37 That is amazing. Well, I want to dive into this profession a bit, because it's interesting. You know, you've mentioned, when you came in, it was security police, and, security forces and you hear people saying defenders and peacekeepers. So there's this lineage and this heritage. Can you maybe talk a little bit about that and then maybe lead us into that next transformational moment that you might have had in this role?   MAJ. GEN. SHERMAN  12:58 OK, I'm very proud of the fact that, you know, I am part of an ever decreasing group of folks that came in when we were still security police, and that was really still the peacekeeper days, because this was all kind of the follow on on the Cold War. The peacekeepers were our cold warriors and that was a huge part. Our defenders came in and really, that name started to really grow in 1997 when the name changed from security police to security forces, and we were actually going back to some of our heritage that was in Operation Safeside, which was the combat security police squadrons in Vietnam. So when you think about the courage that was displayed during the Tet Offensive at places like Tan Son Nhat that those were safe side warriors that were a part of these combat security police squadrons. And so the very — part of the lineage of the very beret, and flash that we have is actually a tip of the hat to the lighter blue berets, and that flash with the Falcon and the crossed runways that goes back, actually, to our Safeside heritage days. The beret goes back even farther than that. It goes back to Strategic Air Command, Elite Guard back in the 1950s. So it's this great lineage. And so, you know, for me, part of it was like when I got my first beret, wow, that meant something to me. And then, you know, as we then kind of transformed along the way, and this amazing career field grew, and the aspects of this air based ground defense, which was really, I would say, was kind of the draw that got me into wanting to go into security police, was I really liked this idea of, ‘How do we do base defense?' The law enforcement side was intriguing to me, but it was based defense that just had me just had me captivated.   Naviere Walkewicz  14:44 And was that something that you found out early in your career? After you graduate the Academy, you're now in security police. Is that when you kind of realized, ‘This is where I want to go in, air, base, ground defense.'?   MAJ. GEN. SHERMAN  14:54 It even happened at ops. So as we were spending time with the security police squadron, I ended up spending time with a captain who was heading up the Elite Guard, and there was an interaction we had as I was doing a ride along. He's like, ‘Hey, you need to come see me.' And so I went and met up with him, and he took me around and introduced me to all of his airmen that were part of the guard. He knew something all about them. And then we went to his office and talked, and he had gone to Ranger School and Airborne and things like that, and said, ‘Hey, like, the future of the career field is actually us looking to the past.' And really kind of got me fired up on what we call back then, air base ground defense. So when I got to McChord — McChord Air Force Base was my first duty station. And the great thing about going to AMC first is it AMC is a mobility — I mean, it is all about mobility and the operations associated with it. And so the first thing that that my task was as the second lieutenant in that squadron was, I was the air base ground defense flight commander. So that was, I mean — we would go out to Fort Lewis, and we would bivouac for days. And I had, you know, a 44 person team that was a base defense sector. I had specialized K-9 units heavy weapons. And back in those days, we had 81mm mortar teams and fire direction centers that we would set up. So I just got completely on board with the air base defense piece. And so that was that was very passionate for me, which then made the next step to Korea an absolutely logical next location, going to the wolf pack at Kunsan, not only getting a chance to then stand up Gwangju as a part of the first Air Expeditionary Unit to go back to Korea since the Korean War, but then doing the mobile reserve aspect of it. And it was just a great assignment.   Naviere Walkewicz  16:40 Wow. So you were right in from the very beginning. You got kind of just into it all.   MAJ. GEN. SHERMAN  16:45 So when we go back, when you were talking to me about, ‘Hey, when you make your mind up...' So I had this five-year plan built out. And, you know, my five-year plan was ‘OK, I'm gonna do my first assignment at the first opportunity to PCS. I need to go remote. I need to go to Korea. And then, OK, how can I get another overseas assignment after that? And then what do I need?' So the thought was, “Let me get to as many match comms as I can, as fast as I can in my career, and use that as a place — OK, because I want to build my experience base out. Because even as a lieutenant and young captain, I didn't want to come across as a one-trick pony. So my thought was, “Let me just get as much as I could under my belt early on.' And so after I left Kunsan, I ended up going to Aviano Air Base in Italy, which, for me, when you look at like those moments in life that are transformational, this was transformational on a different level. You know, some assignments you go to are very much professional growth assignments. This assignment, for me, was very much a personal growth assignment.   Naviere Walkewicz  17:52 OK, so tell me more.   MAJ. GEN. SHERMAN  17:55 I mean, when you think about it, four years at USAFA, very uniquely focused on a plate that is overflowing with things that you need to get done. So you are, you're focused on, you know, everything from grades to military training to all of those things. And then I get to my first base, and I am just working, and I'm volunteering for everything, and we have got a heavy ops tempo of exercises and things like that. And my leadership was fantastic, because they were throwing me into every opportunity I could. And then, boom, I go to Korea, and that is a unique warfighting focused — and at Kunsan especially was heavily warfighting focused. So now all of a sudden I am spending really, when you think about it, the last almost seven years being uniquely focused on mission, right? And so I get to Aviano Air Base, Italy, and the first thing that happens is Operation Allied Force kicks off. So I get there in January, boom. Allied Force kicks off. I think it was in end of February, beginning of March. And wow, what? Again, what an amazing, mission focused experience. And then after we finished up Allied Force and the base returned back to more of its steady-state standpoint, it was the Italians that took me under their wings, that because I made a specific choice, because I grew up — my mom's side of the family are all Italian immigrants — and I was always at my Nonnie and Papa's house, and there was just a lot of that growing up, which is that whole, like, you know, West Coast dad, East Coast mom thing, but I didn't know, you know, my mom and her brothers never spoke Italian. And there was a lot of that, that thought back in those days that, you know, ‘Hey, we're here to be American, so we're going to learn English, and we're not going to speak, you know, the language that we came from,' right? And so my mom and her brothers really never learned to speak Italian. And so my thought was, ‘Gosh, I grew up with this as such a strong part of my childhood that I need to put myself in a position where I can learn the language and start to kind of get an appreciation on the culture. Together.' And so I specifically — and really lucked out on a location, but I was about 20 kilometers away from Aviano. I was in an amazing town. I was the only American living in the complex that I was in. So I was like, ‘If I'm going to learn, I need to just dive in the way that you do, in the way that I do, and just start learning.' And so I ended up kind of building this support group of Italian families that all kind of took me under their wings.   Naviere Walkewicz  20:27 Wait, I have to ask you a question, because back when you're at the Academy, you said you spoke to your now in-laws. So was Laurie not a part of this?   MAJ. GEN. SHERMAN  20:35 So Laurie and I, right. So that's an important part of the story. Laurie and I dated for two years while I was a cadet, and when I was in tech school, her and I made the very difficult decision — and as painful it was — to part ways, so her and I actually parted ways for a few years. I was single at the time. Laurie was still here in Colorado Springs, and I was getting a lot of assignments under my belt, which, to be honest with you, you know, in retrospect, it was very fortunate, because I may not have made the same assignment choices had I been married at the time. And because I wasn't married, there were no other variables that I needed to factor in, other than personal experience goals, right, that I wanted to play into, and so I could just put down whatever assignment I wanted, and that allowed me the opportunity to just focus on job. And while Laurie and I stayed in touch, and I stayed in touch with her parents over the years, I was in Aviano, and her and I were not together at that point,   Naviere Walkewicz  21:39 That makes sense. I was like, why were you alone in Italy?   MAJ. GEN. SHERMAN  21:43 It's a fair question. But I also think that being single in that environment allowed me — and that's where I think it helped me develop as a person. And so there are a lot of, I think, really wonderful things that happened during that time, and that was because I was so uniquely mission focused. It was these, this amazing group of Italian friends together, that really kind of taught me about there, there's a time to relax, you know, there's a time to work, there's a time to relax, and there's also a real human need to enjoy life and enjoy time together, which is quintessentially Italian. And so, as my pool of this, these amazing people — that  by the way, for the last 25 years, we've been going to visit. It's the same families that took me under their wings when I was a lieutenant, are the same families that were all tuning in as we were doing a live stream of me pinning on my second star. And so I've never been stationed anywhere else in my career where I felt more at home. And so I think this sense of like, ‘Wow. This like independently as my own person, this feels like home.' And as time went by and I started to get an appreciation for actually things that were a part of my childhood. Because, you know, we would have these long, huge meals, we would spend four or five hours at the table as a family. And for me, this was all normal. Well, that was also a part of kind of normal Italian life and normal Italian culture. You're not going out to dinner with your friends unless you're investing at least three hours at the restaurant. But for me, this was all — this felt normal to me. And so it was about, you know, you don't need to eat your food in five minutes.   Naviere Walkewicz  So contrary to USAFA, by the way.   MAJ. GEN. SHERMAN You know, you don't need to chew no more than seven times and swallow. So it was about experiencing that, and learning even just some things that became personal passions. Like, you know, how wine is made and why wine pairing matters, and how is this process? And so all of a sudden, this personal experience — and I think growing as a human being was taking place there, and I was maturing as a human being because I had gotten all of this phenomenal job experience under my belt, but this was where I was growing as a human being. And you know what's interesting, as time has gone by, I have noticed just how impactful that time was, because there are things that I've noticed, even as a senior officer, that I feel very strongly about, that I don't think I felt as strongly about as a junior officer, and it was because of that experience, and it was the aspect of when people are on leave, let's let them take leave. There is a part of the human experience that you need to enjoy time with people that you care about, because what it does is you're not slacking off from work. You're not leaving everybody hanging. What's happening is that, because you're taking some time to just enjoy life with people you care about, when you come back, the restorative effects that have taken place because you simply breathe and you enjoyed what it was that you were doing and whatever your passion was, you know, unencumbered, you could enjoy that. And we all realize that there are times, especially as you get into positions of authority, that, hey, they're going to need to call you periodically. But what was interesting is that, especially, I mean, I'll give an example as a wing commander. As a wing commander, despite realizing how important that mission is and how big Wright-Patt was, we, Laurie and I took leave, and we took two weeks of leave, and we went back to Italia and visited our friends and enjoyed life, because the culture helps us to slow down. But what it also did is I gave my staff some parameters. ‘Hey, here are the things that I think are important, like on a scale of one to 10. Here are the things that I think are an eight. So an eight or higher, call me. Don't text me.' I said, ‘Physically call me, because I will answer the phone knowing it's for — and then you have my undivided attention.' But what it also does is it means that my vice wing commander who is there, that I am empowering my vice wing commander and showing to everybody else I trust this leader to lead this wing in my absence. And if it's something that really needs my involvement, they'll get a hold of me. But I think our junior leaders need to see that at the senior most levels, that I can physically trust and emotionally trust my vice, my deputy, to hold things down while I'm gone, and that I'm not irreplaceable, and that if I did my job as a leader, I set the conditions that allowed the wing to thrive in my absence, and didn't mean that the wing had to hang on every decision I made or every word that I said, that I set the conditions that allowed them to be successful and fostered the leadership that allowed them to lead in my absence. And I felt great while I was gone, because I knew the people that we had there, and I knew the investment that we made in them. So that was kind of a long, you know, trip around this…   Naviere Walkewicz  27:26 I mean, I think it was so powerful that you kind of learned that about yourself in Italy. And then would you say that there was anyone that you saw emulating that? Or was it just something over time, you developed this realization that you need to enjoy life and you need to allow people the space to do so.   MAJ. GEN. SHERMAN  27:43 So I would say the people that I was emulating in that aspect were a lot of the families that were there. I have been fortunate that I have worked for some commanders who, at different times in their life felt the same way. Conversely, I also worked for commanders that did not feel the same way. And, you know, an interesting case in point on something that on an experience I had in a command bill and after I had left Aviano — this is when Laurie and I were back together; we were married at this point. I had a group commander that was frustrated about me taking leave and called me every day at 1500; every day at 1500 I got a telephone call. And you know what that does is now all of a sudden, you're eating lunch, and the clock is getting closer to 1500 and you start to get that knot in your stomach and you're like, ‘OK, what are we going to talk about today?' And so, unfortunately you don't see some of the same appreciation for that across the board. So how do we deal with it? The best thing that we deal with it is that that's where the buck stops. We don't pass it down to our people. So after I got the call from him, I didn't call back to the squadron. I got the call from him. We went through the call, we answered the questions, and I didn't then immediately turn around and call back to my ops officer who was running the Squadron at the time, and say, XYZ. And we just left it there, because at that point in time, the bucks got to stop it at that point. So I think that that's kind of the, you know, the alpha and the omega of learning and then also having your own personal resilience and courage to say, ‘I accept that the buck stops here, and I'm not going to let this roll downhill to my people.'   Naviere Walkewicz  29:41 That's an excellent leadership lesson, because I was going to ask you, ‘What does that look like, and how would you how would you handle that?' And so you went right into that. Thank you so much for that. So what has it been like leading security forces — defenders? What's it been like? Has there been a moment in time where — a particular assignment or something's really stuck into your mind or into your heart, because it's just really affected you?   MAJ. GEN. SHERMAN  30:05 Absolutely. I will tell you, as we go back, as we were kind of talking about decisions that you make in your youth, and that critical decision that I made in the fall of '94 I mean, I have worked with some of the most amazing people I've worked in my life. I have gotten a chance to go to places I never thought that I would see. And so, when you kind of roll up, I would say it was my final squadron command, and I would say that that was a real culminating squadron command. So I commanded four squadrons, and we command early, and we command often, and there's a lot of responsibility that that's placed on us as young officers to command as a young officer. And so having the opportunity to command two times as a captain, or one time, you know, as a major-select, then as a major, then as a lieutenant colonel. So that culminating command would have been Bagram Airfield in Afghanistan in May of 2012 to May of 2013 and you know, it was interesting because all of my previous squadron commands had all been vested in either the contingency response or the kind of combat contingency environments. And it was almost like all of those were leading me to this moment. So let me just kind of set the conditions on what Bagram was like at that point in time. We had grown the squadron to about a 1,200-person squadron, huge squadron. And what we were also responsible for is we had taken over battle space ownership from the Army. So the Air Force was controlling 220 square miles of battle space throughout Parwan province, which is a huge. I mean, it's twice the size of Washington, D.C., if you want to try to give a comparison, more or less is fair to look at that level as just a huge amount of terrain in which our airmen were responsible from everything from humanitarian operations and goodwill outreach to engagements to literal kinetic action and combat in the battle space. And so a part of this culmination was, was an environment where as the defense force commander — as that squadron commander to them as a lieutenant colonel at that point — I mean how we are weaving ourselves into their lives, and how we are working with their section commanders, and how we're working and managing the value of our perimeter defenses with our teams that were going outside of the wire doing legitimate patrolling and engagement and things along those lines, was huge. And I think that that is an example. And when you look in the rearview mirror to say, ‘Gosh, now this, a lot of this makes sense, like all of these assignments, whether by design or whether by fate, somehow gave me an experience that at this moment, I needed it most.' And I think, as I talk, we've really enjoyed being here with the cadets and talking to them about, how does a leader really develop trust, and how does trust really manifest itself? And so, through the time that we were there, and the engagement as their leader — not just the leader who's just simply circulating, because that's important, but they also need to see your decision making and your strategic thought. And how do you react under pressure? How are you reacting as we've got incoming in, and what do you do being the person in the joint defense operations center, helping to manage that, and how are you both taking care of people, and how are you managing mission? And they see that. And so I would say that the development of that level of trust, especially in an environment where you are literally dealing with high costs, is huge. And so I think there was one, situation that really rests on my heart that and I don't talk about this to give validation, but I think I talk about it on it's about how people connect, and why do I feel so strongly that leadership is a human experience, like this is a what we are doing as a human experience. And so I was retiring my chief. So I was asked by my chief at Bagram — this was some years later. He's out of the 105th Base Defense Squadron out of the New York Air National Guard, and him and I were a phenomenal team there. Dave Pritchard and I just made a great team. And so he was retiring, and asked me to come back and do his retirement. So we had done the retirement ceremony. We were at the VFW afterwards, having his after-party and so forth. And so I had gone into the bathroom for a comfort break and washed my hands and things like that. And I noticed, as I was kind of moving towards the bathroom, there was kind of a young man who was kind of floating. You know, floating around. And so I came out of the restroom as I was finished, and he was waiting there at the exit of the restroom for me, and kind of, you know, got in front of me, and he stood there, and he looked at me, and he goes, ‘Hey, sir, I just, I needed to let you know this, that I was one of the airmen in one of your patrols that got hit by an IED, and he said, your investment in us, and the words that you used and when you came to talk to us, and the faith that you had in us gave me the courage to go back outside of the wire when you asked us to go back outside.' And so why that rests so heavy is when you think about what, what is the what is the con? The consequence there is that somebody believed in you so much that when you spoke to them and said the word, they were going to go back out and do it again, in spite of what had just happened to you. And I don't think there is any stronger level of trust that you can ask from somebody than to have one of those moments. And so that moment just resides very, very heavy on my soul, because I think it puts into real, tangible context, what is the responsibility of leadership? What is your responsibility of leadership?   Naviere Walkewicz  36:42 I'm letting that sit a little bit, because I can't even imagine the amount of feeling that you had first for him, the courage to share that with you. Because I'm sure that he really wanted to share that. I'm curious if you can remember perhaps, what he might have been referring to, like what you were sharing with the men and women there.   MAJ. GEN. SHERMAN  37:02 So, you know, it was also a part of things that, in times after Bagram have really been used for me as a senior leader on why I reinforced the importance of values. And, this was one particular incident there that really comes to mind is, and I use this when I when I talk to people, because I again, it's the consequence, and it's why our responsibility as leaders to set the right conditions and culture and all of that is so incredibly valuable. And so I talked to people about a story about we had had a situation where we had some real destabilization in the battle space. There was a particular village that we were having some unique challenges with, and we were doing a lot of kind of battlefield shaping, and we were doing some particular village engagement, and the engagement just wasn't happening. And so we were now kind of starting to escalate our interaction with the village a little bit more and as we were doing that, we were now going to start doing more shaping operations. So it just so happens that one of these nights —this was in the late fall, early winter of 2012 — and we were sending one of our patrols outside to do some shaping and engagement operation there. But this was in the evening. This was a different aspect that we were working for this particular mission. And so mounted up that the airmen are ready to go. They're pushing outside, they're right on time, and everything is going according to plan, and they are getting close to what we call the objective rally point. So that was where they were going to rally up before they actually moved into the village after that. And so everything was going according to plan. And the only thing they needed to do before they got to the objective rally point was really kind of go down a small gully over a rise, and then they meet at their objective rally point at that point. And so teams are moving out. First truck over the rise, getting to the point. Second truck over, everything's going fine. Third truck over, fourth truck after that, BOOM, off goes the IED. And what had happened is, they were waiting for this opportunity, and they knew exactly what to do. And that is, if you hit the last truck in the movement, you've got three trucks that are gone ahead of time, and now we've got folks in a very precarious situation. And so what I talk to people about, when we talk about conditions and the real impact that a leader has, is I'll talk to them about who was in that truck, who was in that MRAP that we were sending down at that point in time. And inside that MRAP was the face of America. And the explosion was significant, and it did some considerable damage. It threw the engine out of it, penetrated the hole, ripped one of the doors off the side in the front. And so, you know, the truck commander was National Guard from, actually from Tennessee, and he had gotten injured, broken an arm because that door had peeled back. And as the door peeled back, his arm got caught and broke his arm. The driver, Asian American coming out of the state of California, active duty. He had injuries to his legs because of the penetration of the hole. We had a gunner up in the turret, African American female from the New York Air National Guard. She had a broken pelvis at the time, and she just stayed on the gun the entire time despite her injuries. We had our radio operator. European American female coming from the Midwest. She was actually Air Force Reserve. She had a case of TBI from the explosion, and she was still making calls on the radio. We had two of our riflemen in the back, both came from Hispanic heritage, one of them from Puerto Rican heritage, one of them from Mexican heritage. They were very fortunate that while they got tossed around the back and had some minor TBI issues, they were more or less bumps and bruises, and they were all by themselves. Yeah, because they were all alone, they were in the middle of Afghanistan, they had just gotten hit. And so for me, what's so important about that story is that if we did not set the right culture and the right values and the right expectations and be in a leader by example, and they were harassing each other on Bagram, and they were assaulting each other on Bagram, and they weren't respecting each other on Bagram, and they didn't care about each other on Bagram, they would have died out there that night. But they treated each other like a family, and they cared about each other like a family, and they took care of each other like a family that night, and they lived and they all came home. So for me, if we're going to talk about what is the true consequence of leadership — and I use consequence deliberately, because oftentimes that's used in a pejorative manner — but this is the true result of your actions, that if you don't set those conditions, then you are legitimately putting your people at risk. And so that whole experience at Bagram, and in so many ways that we all carry our scars and our bruises and things like that. I wouldn't trade that experience for the world, but that was tough. And I often describe it as a tale of two cities. You know, it was the best of times. It was the worst of times.   Naviere Walkewicz  42:34 I think a lot of times, when leaders go through experiences like that, they have some more fortunate than others, but a support network. And I would guess it would be your family. How has your family played a role in these moments in your life, in helping you as a leader?   MAJ. GEN. SHERMAN  42:54 So I will say it's primarily my wife. I have got this wonderful support of parents and my in-laws and so forth. And what's been truly fortunate is how close I am with my in-laws. Because when Laurie and I were dating while I was a cadet, anytime I had an overnight or weekend pass, I was over at her mom and dad's house and so I think that being married to somebody that has truly known you from the beginning, you know, where, whether we got a training weekend going on, or something like that, or I'm working first BCT or whatnot, that Laurie was a unique part of all of these things. And I would say that it has been incredibly heartwarming to watch her interact with the cadets here, because it's fun, because her and I do everything together. And so as we're going to events, I'll have a group of cadets that I'm talking to, and then I'll look over and Laurie's surrounded by a group of cadets who are asking her just very insightful questions about our experiences together, and ‘Was it tough sending them away on deployments?' Or how, you know, in those tough times, ‘How do you how do you keep your marriage together?' Just really insightful questions to ask, but she has just been so central to everything that I do. And so going back a little bit and talking about, like the strength of our relationship and how much that helps, we actually needed to have that breakup period as horribly painful as that was, and wow, was I carrying a torch for her all of those years. I mean, I remember, you know, as time was going by, I would talk to my mom, and I'd be like, ‘Mom, I just wish that Laurie could see the man that I become.' But we needed that time because oftentimes, and what we found in ourselves, we didn't know it at the time, because you're living in your environment and you can't see it, right? Is that in youth, things are often absolutes. And you often will get to a place where you're starting your marriage, your relationship is growing. And if you start to talk about marriage, there are things that we have found were absolutes for us. You know, certain things that we did, how we practiced our faith. Did we open up presents on Christmas Eve or Christmas Day, but the expectation was somebody was going to have to give up their particular tradition to conform to the tradition of one of the spouses. And in your youth, that seems reasonable, and I think we needed that time to be apart, having had that time together at such an important time in each of our lives here. But we needed that time apart, because I think we needed that frame of reference as we grew as people into adults. Grew as young adults. And now all of a sudden here I'm getting multiple assignments, and now being thrust into leadership positions with accountability and authority, and then coming back to that, all of a sudden, you're realizing, ‘Gosh, the world just isn't always in absolutes. And maybe a marriage doesn't have to be zero sum, but maybe a marriage can be positive sum.' And do we really have to make somebody give up something that is important to them, that is a part of their identity? Because somehow you feel like you have to conform your marriage into one side or the other. And so, I think for us that was that was so incredibly important. So to kind of get to that story is that, you know, I left Aviano and I went to Al Dhafra. I was in Al Dhafra actually for September 11. It was my first squadron command, but it was a squadron command I wasn't expecting, because I came there as a chief of security forces for about a 70-person security forces flight as a part of the 763rd Expeditionary Air Refueling Squadron at Al Dhafra. And then all of a sudden, 9/11 happens, and we went from about 400 people on Al Dhafra to about 4,000. And you know, U-2s came in, ISR platforms came in. Everything changed. And all of a sudden, this 70-person security forces flight that I had grew into about a 350-person security forces squadron. And AFSET said, ‘Hey, Sherman, you built it, you keep it, and we'll replace you with a major when you leave.' And I was a six-year captain, and so then finishing up that assignment, and I got picked up for — there was a point to that story — but it was about coming back, is that, hey, I got these new, unique experiences that grew me under my belt. And then I came back to do an AFIT program at Cal State San Bernardino. And that was the moment that brought Laurie and I back together.   Naviere Walkewicz  In what way?   MAJ. GEN. SHERMAN And so, I had a health scare. Nobody knows what it was. We never figured it out. Doctors never figured it out. But it was one of those things, like, all of a sudden, I shotgun something out to everybody I knew. I said, ‘Hey, doctors are a little bit concerned, you know, keep me in your thoughts.' And so Laurie, Laurie is like, ‘Holy cow, you can't just send a one liner and leave it at that.' So she called my mom and dad and said, ‘What's his phone number?' And so it started to turn into ‘Hey, give me all of your test results after you get it back.' Then pretty soon we're talking a couple times a week, and then pretty soon we're talking every other day, and then we are talking every day. And the beauty of this was that we already knew each other, so we already knew what everybody's favorite color was — by the way, Laurie's is purple. We knew what music each other liked. We knew things about each other. And some of the things that actually drew us together when we were dating here was, you know, we had things like some common family traditions, like, you know, Italian fish on Christmas Eve and sitting around the table for hours and stuff like that were all things that we had in common. So we already knew that about each other. Now, her and I on the phone, we're getting into some real, like substantive discussions, children, faith. How do you how you raise children? How do you know, what are we going to do for different traditions? What happens if I have to take a remote; what does that mean? And so we were getting into these really, deep conversations. And, you know, I would come back from either class or then when I PCs to the security forces center out at Lackland, you know, I would come home from work, and this was in the old flip phone days where you had a battery that came off the back. So I would have one battery in the charger, and then I would have an earbud in, and I'd have the phone in my pocket. Yeah, and I'd come home and to call her, and we would just go throughout the evening. So I'm ironing BDUs at the time, shining my boots and stuff like that, and so, and we were just talking. And then we were just kind of like living life together. And, after that point, it became very clear that those two young people who sincerely cared about each other, now, each of us grew up and had experiences in a place that allowed us to really appreciate each other and really love each other. And you know, we were married just a little over a year after that. And it has been phenomenal, her support. And I think one of the great testaments to that was, 10 days after we got married, I went to Baghdad, but she's like, ‘I grew up in the Air Force. I know how this works. We're gonna move the house. I'll get the house put together.' And she's also a professional in her own right, which is great. So she was working in a legal office here as a paralegal and legal assistant here in Colorado Springs, and has been a GS employee for the last 18-plus years. So what's great is she, too has her own aspect of service. What I love about it is that in the jobs that she's in and then the jobs that I'm in, we can talk shop, and then we cannot talk shop, right? And so she's the first person I go to if I have to ask a question, she's the first person that I'll go to say, ‘Hey, did I do that right? Or do I need to backtrack on that a little bit?' Because she knows me, and she knows me completely, and that level of trust and love and faith that we have for each other has truly enabled me to be able to serve our airmen on a level that I don't think would have been possible without her.   Naviere Walkewicz  51:59 Would you say that she's had a role in your development as a leader, in the way that you lead.   MAJ. GEN. SHERMAN  52:05 Oh, absolutely, absolutely, because, and I love it, because her experience as a brat and her dad as a chief gives her a very unique lens to look through. And so the advice that she gives me she can give me from her teenage self in some way, you know, from that experience, watching how her dad interacted with something or knowing her aspect about this. And then as she's developed professionally, working on the E-Ring at the Pentagon a couple different times, working for very senior leaders, knows how to navigate that space. So then I'll go to her for advice, like, ‘Hey, how did your boss handle something like this?' ‘Well, let me tell you what, how we work through this...' And so I would absolutely say that that Laurie has uniquely influenced and helped me to become the best version of myself that I can be.   Naviere Walkewicz  53:03 Wow. Well, I want to ask you a little bit about developing yourself as well, because one of the questions we like to ask is, what are you doing every day to make yourself a better leader? Can you share what that might be?   MAJ. GEN. SHERMAN  53:17 I've said it a couple times during this: I truly believe that leadership is a human experience, so for me, it's about the interaction. And so oftentimes, advice that I've given to people — like there are amazing resources abound that can help people, give people leadership perspectives, and we can either learn it from history, or we can learn it through study. We can learn it through analysis. We can learn it through books. And I've always talked to people about use the external tools that help to grow you, but make sure that you're using it to influence the personality that you already have. Because oftentimes what happens is, is that people will have this really strong desire to say, “OK, I want to make sure that I do this right. And so in doing this right, let me make sure I've got my checklist, and so I'm going to greet them, I'm going to ask them how their family is, I'm going to ask them if the kid did all right in the baseball game. And I'm going to go through my checklist, and if I do that, I fulfill my leadership obligation.' Now not everybody does, and I'm making generalities on but, but I think that there can oftentimes be the allure that when you are focusing on what may be the theory or the principle of the day, and not using it to supplement and grow and mature your personality, that there is a strong allure to want to wholesale replicate what it was that you learned, and you're doing it in a noble place. It's not nefarious. It's being done in a noble, genuine place. But there's that allure to say, ‘OK, good, I really like what I've learned. I'm going to do these things and step through.' And so why I talk so much about the experience, and why I talk so much about the interaction, is that the more that you know the people that you may be influencing by just simply being there and understanding what that means. It means you're eternalizing the value of your presence. You're listening to their stories, and you're understanding for them, what are the things that are motivating them? What are the things that they value? Because each generation, each environment, each condition is going to require something a little bit different from you, and if you don't take the time to understand your environment or generation or cultural nuances or things like that on where you're at, then you are missing that opportunity to develop trust, where they start to believe in you as a person, and not just the rank and position that you hold, because they'll do the right thing for the rank and position that you hold. That's the caliber of people that we have in this Air Force of ours. They'll do the right thing. But if you transcend that in the fact that they believe in you wholeheartedly and trust you, oftentimes with their own lives, it means that you've invested something into them, where they truly know that you care. And that goes back to that A1C on the cork board that said, ‘I need somebody who cares about me as a person.'   Naviere Walkewicz  56:41 You know, as I think about what you've experienced through your career and the lessons you've learned, both professionally and personally, what would you say to yourself back then that you should be doing back then to get to where you're at now? Because we have listeners that are like, ‘What can I start planting today, that will bloom down the road?'   MAJ. GEN. SHERMAN  57:03 Absolutely. And so I think if I was to go back and put my arm around Cadet First Class Sherman, I think what I would do is — because it is, it is oftentimes easy to look in the crystal clear mirror of hindsight, right? But I think instead, what I would do is I would put my arm around him and say, ‘Keep following your heart and let the failures happen, because the failures are going to grow and let the stumbles happen and enjoy the triumphs with people and be appreciative for what got you there.' And I think it would be more of the encouragement of like, ‘You have laid out a path for you take the path wherever it goes, the joy, the pain, the triumph, the failure, all of those things, because all of that helps to develop the leader.' And oftentimes you want to go back and say, gosh, if I was going to talk to my previous self, then I would say, ‘Ah, don't do that one thing,' right? But I'm looking at it saying that if I didn't do that one thing, then I'm not sure that I would be where I'm at at a time to make sure I didn't do that thing at a moment that was incredibly catastrophic. And so while we have this desire to want to prevent ourselves from the failure, I think that what we have to do is say you're going to fail and you need to fail, and it's going to sound — relish in the failure, because it is often emotionally troubling, especially those of us that come here because we are Type A perfectionist, and that's part of the draw of coming to this amazing place. Is there a certain personality traits that help us to be successful here, but not all of those personality traits make us uniquely successful in all situations outside, and so you've got to have that failure at some point in time. And the failure that you can get up and say, ‘OK, I did this. This happened. My soul is bruised. My ego is bruised. I may have to take a little bit of accountability for this. OK, now I need to have the courage to take the next step forward again.' Because I could easily retreat back to a safe place, and I could become risk averse, and all that does is hurt the people around you. OK. I have to have the courage to breathe and take the step again and get back in there. So I would tell my — I don't think I would want to prevent myself from doing anything. I think even the growth that took place while Laurie and I were apart — and, like I said, that torch that I carried for her — I think if I had whispered in my ear and said, ‘Hey, just relax, you're gonna marry her.' I think I needed that torch, because that in my own mind and my own emotion was me needing to become a better man, and so I think I needed to go through — like, sometimes you need the struggle, and sometimes the things that are most valuable are the things that you had to go through the struggle for, right? And I think that's where my blue collar ethics background comes in. It's like, I'm just going to roll up my sleeves and I'm going to work through the struggle.   Naviere Walkewicz  1:00:36 Wow. Well, we took a look back. I just want to ask you a question forward. So do you think about legacy? And what do you want your legacy to be? Is that something that plays in your mind as you wake up each morning or go to lead people?   MAJ. GEN. SHERMAN  1:00:50 I think the way that I look at it is, I look at it in a in a different aspect, and the way that I look at it is in a very confined point to point. It's not about what is going to be Tom Sherman's legacy when he retires someday, but was that interaction that I had with somebody to give them some encouraging words when they fell down, did that matter to them at that moment? Because there are people for me in my failures that were commanders, that were leaders, that were mentors, that were senior enlisted, that, you know, grabbed that lieutenant by the arm and helped to lift me up. And their memories are etched in my fabric. And so I think that it's about that individual event that your legacy will live in the people in which you made a difference to them.   Naviere Walkewicz  1:01:49 Well, I'll share with you, I was telling my son — he's a cadet, a third-class cadet, actually, now he's about to be a C2C — that I was doing this podcast with you, and he said, ‘What an incredible leader, Mom, he motivates me. He's so inspiring.' So your legacy is already through my son—   MAJ. GEN. SHERMAN  1:02:05 Thank you! That means — thank you so much for sharing.   Naviere Walkewicz  1:02:10 —that you really made an impact. So we're going to get to your final thoughts here in a little bit. But before we do, I want to make sure that you know our podcasts publish on every second Tuesday of the month, and you can certainly listen to Gen. Sherman in any of our other podcasts on longblueleadership.org. So Gen. Sherman, what would you like to leave our listeners with today? This has been incredible, by the way. Thank you.   MAJ. GEN. SHERMAN  1:02:32 I have truly enjoyed this, and it's just been — it was just wonderful having the conversation with you, and it's in real honor to be a part of this. I truly believe in what you're doing here.   Naviere Walkewicz  1:02:43 Thank you. It's my pleasure to help share your story and help inspire others. And is there anything we might leave with our listeners that that they can part with tonight?   MAJ. GEN. SHERMAN  1:02:51 I think, for me, you need to love what you do and love I think, is one of the most powerful words in language. And I don't just say the English language. I say in language because of the strength behind the meaning and how wide the meaning can be impactful. If you love what you do, people will feel that your very presence will make a difference. They'll feel that if you love what you do, then you're being, you know, internally, inspired by the love that you have for what you're being a part of, right? If you love and care about your people, they will follow you to the ends of the Earth, because they know the passion that you have and the belief that you have in them. So I think that as we go back to these things, we oftentimes look at the terms of courage and love may seem diametrically opposed, and I would attest that you can be most courageous and that your courage will be most effective only when it's buttressed by the love that you have in what you do and who you do it with.   Naviere Walkewicz  1:04:08 Thank you, sir, for that. Thank you for being on Long Blue Leadership.   MAJ. GEN. SHERMAN  1:04:11 Absolutely. Thank you. This was a wonderful time. It was a real honor.   Naviere Walkewicz  1:04:14 Thank you. Well, until next time, I'm Naviere Walkewicz. We'll see you on Long Blue Leadership.     KEYWORDS Leadership, Air Force Academy, Major General Thomas P. Sherman, mentorship, personal growth, security forces, work-life balance, family support, continuous improvement, legacy       The Long Blue Line Podcast Network is presented by the U.S. Air Force Academy Association & Foundation        

Dave Lam is a seasoned investor, veteran, and strategic operator focused on unlocking value in microcap and lower-middle market companies. A former U.S. Air Force contracting officer, he offers deep expertise on execution, strategy, and operational excellence. As a Principal at Phalanx Partners, he helps lead independent sponsorship and advisory efforts for growing companies across multiple sectors. He is also a Managing Principal at Oakwood Legacy Partners, a private holding company investing in alternative assets including real estate, cryptocurrency, and private debt. With a decade of experience managing complex vendor portfolios and leading operational strategy, Dave's expertise spans procurement, underwriting, and portfolio management. His background includes work with the U.S. Air Force and Coast Guard, where he oversaw projects in medical services, construction, communications, and defense manufacturing. Dave holds an MS in Finance from Boston College and an MBA from the University of Chicago Booth School of Business. Whether advising founders or evaluating new investments, he brings a rigorous, data-driven approach to growth, risk management, and long-term value creation. In this episode of the SABM podcast, Scott chats with Dave about: From Military to Main Street: How Dave's background as an Air Force contracting officer led him to pursue small business acquisitions. The PHX Playbook: A value-driven model where founders sell majority ownership but stay on to scale with strategic support. Smart Acquisition Strategy: Why clean financials, low owner dependency, and operational upside are essential for a successful deal. Opportunity in the Lower Market: Dave targets $1–3M EBITDA businesses where hands-on improvements can drive major returns. The Power of Relationships: Trusted veteran and referral networks are key to finding deals and aligning the right people for growth. Timestamps: 00:41 Dave's Background and Introduction 01:48 The Importance of Due Diligence 03:00 Introduction to Phalanx Partners 06:02 Opportunities in Business Acquisitions 14:19 Pitfalls in Business Acquisitions 18:27 Secrets to Finding Deal Flow 20:22 Building Your Professional Network 21:15 Strategic Referral Partners 23:20 Investment and Value Addition 27:28 Optimizing Small Businesses 33:15 Future Goals and Aspirations 38:00 Acquisitions and Exit Circle 39:50 Connecting and Contact Information Connect with Dave: LinkedIn Email: dave.lam@phalanxpart.com If you found value in today's episode, don't keep it to yourself—share it with a colleague or friend who could benefit. And if you're a Service Academy graduate ready to elevate your business, we'd love for you to join our community and get started today. Make sure you never miss an episode—subscribe now and help support the show: Apple Podcasts Spotify Leave us a 5-star review! A special thank you to Dave for joining me this week. Until next time! -Scott Mackes, USNA '01  

Send us a textThe Pentagon dropped a $962B budget bomb, and Razin Caine dropped an actual bomb—well, more like 125 aircraft dropping GBU-57 bunker busters on Iranian nuclear sites. In this no-fluff Daily Drop, Jared unpacks the FY26 defense budget, the rise of the F-47, the death of the A-10, and why space is the new high ground (sorry, Wedgetail). He also calls out bureaucratic nonsense, praises enlisted studs like Tech Sgt. Montoya, and side-eyes yet another “brilliant” plan to split the Air Force into four separate services. Meanwhile, Hoist is still the drink of choice, even if Congress can't get theirs together.

Send us a textWe explore the dynamic evolution of military leadership with Major General Thomas "Tank" Sherman, who shares insights on commissioning sources, mentorship impact, and the critical commander-chief relationship from his 30-year career.• The significant legacy of Chief Master Sergeant Sal DiMatteo, who established NCO academies in Europe and mentored a young cadet who would become a general• Differences between Air Force Academy, ROTC, and OTS commissioning sources - each providing unique strengths to the officer corps• USAFA's four-year development model progressing from followership to command positions• The vital role of Academy Military Trainers in exposing cadets to NCO leadership before commissioning• Why the commander-chief relationship must be built on mutual trust, vulnerability, and respect• How transparent leadership during stressful times builds stronger connections with subordinates• The importance of focusing on current responsibilities rather than career advancement• Sherman's upcoming role as AFIMSC Commander and excitement about contributing to installation support challenges

Retired Lt. Col. Josh Cadice shares his story of going to the edge of space in one of the most iconic spy planes ever built.In this episode, Josh discusses flying the KC-135, wearing the pressure suit, piloting the mysterious U-2 at 70,000 feet, and its aerial reconnaissance capabilities. From Cold War origins to modern missions, this aircraft's legacy is as fascinating as it is classified. This one is going to be cool! Resources:U-2 Air Force Fact Sheet KC-135 Air Force Fact Sheet Chapters:(00:00) - Intro (01:14) - Flying the U-2 Overview (03:10) - Aviation Beginnings and the USAFA (04:18) - The Civil Air Patrol (04:39) - U-2 History (06:00) - Flying the KC-135 (07:19) - Stratotanker Upgrades (08:05) - Aerial Refueling (10:16) - Becoming a U-2 Pilot (11:42) - Dragon Lady Training (13:24) - First Solo (14:30) - Mission Training (15:00) - The Pressure Suit (19:18) - U-2 Takeoffs and Landings (20:35) - The Chase Car (22:03) - Landing Close Call (23:01) - Flying Missions at 70,000 Feet (26:07) - Operational Differences (27:49) - Aerial Reconnaissance (29:49) - What It Takes to be a U-2 Pilot (30:48) - Landing the Dragon Lady (33:24) - The Future of Spy Planes (34:51) - Flying for United (35:41) - Josh's Advice (36:56) - Outro

Send us a textIf today's Pentagon brief were a movie, it'd be a dark comedy with no budget and a glitchy drone trying to play hero. Jared returns with another savage rundown of everything broken in military bureaucracy—from the $18B PCS debacle to the Air Force accidentally playing bumper cars with drones mid-flight.We're talking Space Force funding so bad it's practically space homelessness, transgender policy whiplash, B-21 bombers being bought like Costco bulk snacks, and a DoD so addicted to credit it'd make Congress blush. Add in China flexing its missile game and our response being “eh, maybe 145 bombers will fix it,” and you've got today's briefing.This episode's got radar bombs, hurricane hunters, lost civilian jobs, and a new Air Force Secretary who hopefully doesn't suck at graduation speeches.

Send us a textPart II - Jayne Amelia talks with Colonel (Retired) Gregory J. Rosenmerkel who is a CASA in Colorado and was recently assigned a sibling set of three boys. Rosie grew up in Waukesha, WI and earned his commission and degree in Civil Engineering from the United States Air Force Academy in 1988.  He spent over 25 years as an Air Force officer/engineer with assignments to 11 different locations in the US and overseas.  He commanded units at both squadron and group levels and he led teams on deployments to Somalia, Panama, Haiti, Iraq, Afghanistan and several other locations. He's earned a Master of Science in Management from Colorado Christian University, a Master of Science in Civil Engineering/Construction from the University of Colorado at Boulder, and a Master of National Security and Strategic Studies from the US Naval War College in  Newport RI.In his last military assignment, then Colonel Rosenmerkel was the Commander, 11th Mission Support Group, (similar to a City Manager) at Joint Base Andrews, MD.  The group was over 1,200-people strong and provided base services to the Andrews community, the Pentagon and over 50 other units in the National Capital Region.  His awards and decorations include: the Legion of Merit, Bronze Star, Meritorious Service Medal with five oak leaf clusters, Air Force Commendation Medal with oak leaf cluster, Army Commendation Medal, Navy and Marine Corps Commendation Medal, Meritorious Unit Award, Outstanding Unit Award with three oak leaf clusters, Organizational Excellence Award with oak leaf cluster, Aghanistan Campaign Medal, Iraq Campaign Medal, Korea Service Medal, Humanitarian Service Medal, NATO Medal and many others.        In their 13th move, he and his family settled in Glenwood Springs CO where he was the Engineering, Minerals and Fleet Staff Officer for the White River National Forest from 2013-2022.  He led a team of engineers and technicians to provide professional services in support of sustainable operations and multiple-use management of 2.3 million acres of public land. His wife of 33 years, Linda, is also a USAF Academy graduate and retired AF officer, currently working as a civilian for the Secretary of the Air Force's office.  Their son Ray is a Cadet Second Class (junior) at USAFA and their daughter Allison graduated the University of California in Santa Cruz in 2024. He is a licensed realtor, works part time as a bridge inspector and mentor for the USFS, teaches sporting clays shooting, and works at Ironbridge Golf Club.  He volunteers for the Western Slope Veterans Coalition and the Knights of Columbus as well as being a CASA. He and Linda enjoy biking, skiing, fitness, golfing and visiting family and friends all over the country.  *A few things from early life not in this bio--Rosie grew up in the same town as both sets of grandparents, most of his aunts, uncles and cousins and graduated from the same high school as his Mom and Dad.  He has two sisters and a brother, and he's #2.See bonusbabies.org to learn more about what we are doing and please donate to support us by making a 100% tax-deductible contribution. EVERY PENNY OF YOUR CONTRIBUTION GOES TO RECORDING AND PLATFORMING THESE STORIES. Yeah!IG@bonusbabiespodcastTW@BonusBabiesPodFB@BonusBabiesPodcast

Send us a textJayne Amelia talks with Colonel (Retired) Gregory J. Rosenmerkel who is a new CASA in Colorado and just assigned a sibling set of three boys.  Rosie grew up in Waukesha, WI and earned his commission and degree in Civil Engineering from the United States Air Force Academy in 1988.  He spent over 25 years as an Air Force officer/engineer with assignments to 11 different locations in the US and overseas.  He commanded units at both squadron and group levels and he led teams on deployments to Somalia, Panama, Haiti, Iraq, Afghanistan and several other locations. He's earned a Master of Science in Management from Colorado Christian University, a Master of Science in Civil Engineering/Construction from the University of Colorado at Boulder, and a Master of National Security and Strategic Studies from the US Naval War College in  Newport RI.In his last military assignment, then Colonel Rosenmerkel was the Commander, 11th Mission Support Group, (similar to a City Manager) at Joint Base Andrews, MD.  The group was over 1,200-people strong and provided base services to the Andrews community, the Pentagon and over 50 other units in the National Capital Region.  His awards and decorations include: the Legion of Merit, Bronze Star, Meritorious Service Medal with five oak leaf clusters, Air Force Commendation Medal with oak leaf cluster, Army Commendation Medal, Navy and Marine Corps Commendation Medal, Meritorious Unit Award, Outstanding Unit Award with three oak leaf clusters, Organizational Excellence Award with oak leaf cluster, Aghanistan Campaign Medal, Iraq Campaign Medal, Korea Service Medal, Humanitarian Service Medal, NATO Medal and many others.        In their 13th move, he and his family settled in Glenwood Springs CO where he was the Engineering, Minerals and Fleet Staff Officer for the White River National Forest from 2013-2022.  He led a team of engineers and technicians to provide professional services in support of sustainable operations and multiple-use management of 2.3 million acres of public land. His wife of 33 years, Linda, is also a USAF Academy graduate and retired AF officer, currently working as a civilian for the Secretary of the Air Force's office.  Their son Ray is a Cadet Second Class (junior) at USAFA and their daughter Allison graduated the University of California in Santa Cruz in 2024. He is a licensed realtor, works part time as a bridge inspector and mentor for the USFS, teaches sporting clays shooting, and works at Ironbridge Golf Club.  He volunteers for the Western Slope Veterans Coalition and the Knights of Columbus as well as being a CASA. He and Linda enjoy biking, skiing, fitness, golfing and visiting family and friends all over the Country.  *A few things from early life not in this bio--Rosie grew up in the same town as both sets of grandparents, most of his aunts, uncles and cousins and graduated from the same high school as his Mom and Dad.  He has two sisters and a brother, and he's #2.See bonusbabies.org to learn more about what we are doing and please donate to support us by making a 100% tax-deductible contribution. EVERY PENNY OF YOUR CONTRIBUTION GOES TO RECORDING AND PLATFORMING THESE STORIES. Yeah!IG@bonusbabiespodcastTW@BonusBabiesPodFB@BonusBabiesPodcast

#206: Lieutenant Colonel Todd Beer was the Air Force One pilot for both the President Bill Clinton & President George W Bush administrations, as well as the 9/11 terrorists attacks and many other influential historical moments.Todd grew up in Indiana and his basketball success earned him an opportunity to play college basketball at the highly coveted United State Air Force Academy. After surviving a plane crash while he was in high school he never had a desire to fly. During his time at the USAFA he started over 108 straight games, overcame adversity, grew in courage, persisted through flight school, and competed at the highest levels. All of which were building blocks to a distinguished career in aviation. He shares the tense moments on 9/11 when minimal information was at hand to make critical decisions to safely fly the president. Other moments include covertly flying Air Force one into Bagdad for President Bush's surprise visit and flying Present Clinton right after news of the Monica Lewinsky scandal surfaced. More importantly he shares his story and all of the lessons he learned not just to have a successful career, but also a successful family. Enjoy the show! 

Retired F-15 and F-16 fighter pilot Nicole Malachowski tells us about flying 18 inches off the wings of high-speed jets as a U.S. Air Force Thunderbird.Welcome to Season 6 of the Behind the Wings podcast! In this episode, Nicole takes us through her groundbreaking journey as the first woman to become a Thunderbird pilot. She discusses her combat missions, flying in airshows, her WASP connection, and how a tick-borne illness changed her life forever. There is a lot to learn!Resources:Nicole Malachowski's Website Nicole Malachowski's Bio (Wikipedia) Chapters:(00:00) - Intro (01:23) - F-15 vs. F-16 (02:22) - Early Interest in Aviation (03:26) - USAFA (04:42) - The Ban on Women In Combat Jets (06:38) - Flying the F-15 and F-16 (09:06) - Combat Missions (13:50) - Thunderbirds Admission (17:58) - Thunderbirds Training (21:33) - Combat vs. Thunderbirds (24:02) - Audience Interaction (27:34) - Tick-Borne Illness (32:57) - The Wounded Warrior Program (34:12) - WASP Connection (36:55) - The Future of Veteran Medicine (39:21) - Nicole's Legacy (40:42) - Nicole's Advice (41:45) - Outro

Need financing for your next investment property? Visit: https://www.academyfund.com/ Want to join us in San Antonio, TX on June 11th & 12th? Visit: https://www.10xvets.com/events ____ Jeff Martinovich is a seasoned business advisor, entrepreneur, and U.S. Air Force veteran with a background in finance, leadership, and strategic growth. A former Gulf War officer, he went on to build a billion-dollar investment firm, gaining firsthand experience in high-performance leadership and navigating complexity under pressure. After a highly public legal battle that reshaped his views on resilience and integrity, Jeff now channels his experience into helping leaders grow with purpose and clarity. As a partner at ASH Business Advisory, he works alongside fellow Air Force Academy grads to support early-stage and mid-market companies through capital, executive support, and operational strategy. He's the author of When Not If, a Forbes Books bestseller on leading through adversity, and speaks nationally on business growth, accountability, and principled leadership. Today, Jeff is focused on helping entrepreneurs lead with confidence, scale intentionally, and build businesses that make a lasting impact. In this episode of the SABM podcast, Scott chats with Jeff about: From Billion-Dollar Firm to Prison: Jeff's journey from leading a billion-dollar investment firm to facing incarceration. Turning Time Into Opportunity:  How Jeff studied law behind bars and earned early release from a 14-year sentence. Purpose-Driven Business: Helping small companies grow through Ash Business Advisory. Hard-Earned Wisdom: Authoring two books to share lessons from failure, redemption, and rebuilding. Championing Founders: Jeff now mentors entrepreneurs, offering strategic guidance to help them grow with clarity and integrity. Timestamps: 01:00 Jeff's Background Before 2012 02:07 The Crazy Story Begins 05:38 Surviving Prison and Helping Others 08:50 Life After Prison 12:39 Lessons Learned and Business Ventures 15:55 The Power of Sharing Stories Connect with Jeffrey: LinkedIn Email: jam@jeffmartinovich.com https://www.jeffmartinovich.com/ If you found value in today's episode, don't keep it to yourself—share it with a colleague or friend who could benefit. And if you're a Service Academy graduate ready to elevate your business, we'd love for you to join our community and get started today. Make sure you never miss an episode—subscribe now and help support the show: Apple Podcasts Spotify Leave us a 5-star review! A special thank you to Jeff for joining me this week. Until next time! -Scott Mackes, USNA '01

In this episode of NucleCast, host Adam speaks with Lieutenant Colonel Gary Glover about the evolving landscape of the Air Force, particularly in relation to nuclear force design and modernization efforts. They discuss the importance of advanced education for military officers, the implications of hypersonic weapons on nuclear command and control, and the broader national security challenges facing the United States.Lieutenant Colonel Garrett Glover is the Chief of AFGSC Futures Division, Air Force Global Strike Command, an Assistant Professor of Political Science at USAFA, and a Senior Fellow with the Institute for National Security Studies.Colonel Glover was commissioned from the United States Air Force Academy in 2009. He has held key positions within the Intercontinental Ballistic Missile community, including Instructor, Evaluator, Flight Commander, and Assistant Director of Operations. As Executive Officer for the Office of Defense Programs at the National Nuclear Security Administration, he played a pivotal role in the successful execution of a $5 billion Stockpile Stewardship Program, supporting $25 billion in nuclear sustainment initiatives. He served as a Presidential Nuclear Strike Advisor and Assistant Deputy Director of Operations at the National Military Command Center, translating presidential intent into nuclear strike options and leading a joint inter-agency team focused on both nuclear and conventional global military operations. In this role he oversaw the execution of the National Military Command System on behalf of the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs. Additionally, he served as Executive Assistant to the Deputy Director for Nuclear and Homeland Defense Operations (J-36) on the Joint Staff at the Pentagon. He spent a year as a DoD Nuclear Technical Lab Fellow at Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory, CA. Prior to his current position, he served as the Chief Nuclear Strategist of Headquarters, Air Force Global Strike Command.Chapters00:00 Introduction to Global Strike Command and Force Design07:29 The Importance of Advanced Education for Officers15:23 Hypersonics and Nuclear Command Control25:50 Wishes for National Security and EducationSocials:Follow on Twitter at @NucleCastFollow on LinkedIn: https://linkedin.com/company/nuclecastpodcastSubscribe RSS Feed: https://rss.com/podcasts/nuclecast-podcast/Rate: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/nuclecast/id1644921278Email comments and topic/guest suggestions to NucleCast@anwadeter.org

The Association of Graduates and Air Force Academy Foundation just dropped a special episode of Long Blue Leadership, featuring our continuing coverage of the 32nd National Character and Leadership Symposium. ----more---- Bryan Grossman, senior director of strategic communications and managing editor of Checkpoints magazine, speaks with this year's Sullenberger Award for Courage recipients. “Atomic,” “Batman,” “Guns,” and “Royal” helped stave off an arial assault on an allied nation. Listen to their stories on any of your favorite podcast apps and watch for more additional coverage in your March Checkpoints. (L-R) OUR GUESTS FOR THIS SPECIAL EDITION OF LONG BLUE LEADERSHIP Capt. Kyle "Royal" Abraham, USAFA '19  Capt. Logan "Batman" Cowan, USAFA ‘18 Capt. Carla "Guns" Nava, USAFA '18 Claire "Atomic" Eddins, USAFA '18 "...All (four of these) warfighter graduates distinguished themselves in what has been called the largest air-to-air engagement in over 50 years when they helped turn away Iran's April 2024 attack against Israel. Their extraordinary airmanship contributed greatly to preserving regional stability, protecting Coalition forces, and saving countless civilian lives." Copy Credit:  USAFA Superintendent's Office   CHECKPOINTS ONLINE     ACCESS THE MOST RECENT ISSUE OF CHECKPOINTS - REQUIRES SIGN-IN   THE LONG BLUE LINE PODCAST NETWORK TEMPORARY STUDIO CADET HONORS CONFERENCE ROOM, POLARIS HALL   VIEW THE FULL NCLS 2025 SPEAKER AND PRESENTER PLAYLIST       The Long Blue Line Podcast Network is presented by the U.S. Air Force Academy Association and Foundation      

Need financing for your next investment property? Visit: https://www.academyfund.com/ Want to join us in San Antonio, TX on June 11th & 12th? Visit: https://www.10xvets.com/events ____ David Baska is a dynamic leader with expertise in operations, finance, and strategic planning. As Chief Operating Officer at Swift Brands, he spearheads the company's mission to revolutionize military-branded apparel and the broader apparel industry through innovative technology and U.S.-based on-demand manufacturing. A former officer in the U.S. Air Force, David served in space and military operations, earning honors such as the Defense Meritorious Service Medal, and later contributed as a program manager in the U.S. Space Force. An academy graduate and former collegiate baseball player, he brings a strong foundation in leadership and teamwork to his professional endeavors. David's passion for innovation and dedication to excellence continue to drive meaningful advancements across industries, leaving a lasting impact.   In this episode of the SABM podcast, Scott chats with David about: The Vision for Swift Brands: Revolutionizing apparel with a vertically integrated tech and e-commerce platform. Innovative Solutions: Addressing supply chain issues with U.S.-based on-demand manufacturing for youth sports, schools, and military sectors. David's Journey: From academy grad and baseball player to leader of Swift Brands and MadeinVSA.com. Simplifying Customization: Empowering schools, military units, and affinity groups to create and manage custom apparel lines effortlessly. Challenges and Future Goals: Tackling industry obstacles and aiming for impactful milestones in 2025. Ways to Collaborate: Opportunities to partner with Swift Brands and connect with David for support.   Timestamps: 00:25 Overview of Swift Brands 03:23 Understanding VSA and Its Market 09:46 Military Market and Vision 18:06 Future Goals and Challenges   Connect with David : LinkedIn - David B. www.madeinvsa.com   If you found value in today's episode, don't keep it to yourself—share it with a colleague or friend who could benefit. And if you're a Service Academy graduate ready to elevate your business, we'd love for you to join our community and get started today.   Make sure you never miss an episode—subscribe now and help support the show: Apple Podcasts Spotify Leave us a 5-star review! A special thank you to David for joining me this week. Until next time! -Scott Mackes, USNA '01