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In this live episode, Tricia Eastman joins to discuss Seeding Consciousness: Plant Medicine, Ancestral Wisdom, Psychedelic Initiation. She explains why many Indigenous initiatory systems begin with consultation and careful assessment of the person, often using divination and lineage-based diagnostic methods before anyone enters ceremony. Eastman contrasts that with modern frameworks that can move fast, rely on short trainings, or treat the medicine as a stand-alone intervention. Early Themes: Ritual, Preparation, and the Loss of Container Eastman describes her background, including ancestral roots in Mexico and her later work at Crossroads Ibogaine in Mexico, where she supported early ibogaine work with veterans. She frames her broader work as cultural bridging that seeks respect rather than fetishization, and assimilation into modern context rather than appropriation. Early discussion focuses on: Why initiatory traditions emphasize purification, preparation, and long timelines Why consultation matters before any high-intensity medicine work How decades of training shaped traditional initiation roles Why people can get harmed when they treat medicine as plug and play Core Insights: Alchemy, Shadow, and Doing the Work A major throughline is Eastman's critique of the belief that a psychedelic alone will erase trauma. She argues that shadow work remains part of the human condition, and that healing is less about a one-time fix and more about building capacity for relationship with the unconscious. Using alchemical language, she describes "nigredo" as fuel for the creative process, not as something to eliminate forever. Key insights include: Psychedelics are tools, not saviors You cannot outsource responsibility to a pill, a modality, or a facilitator Progress requires practice, discipline, and honest engagement with what arises "Healing" often shows up as obstacles encountered while trying to live and create Later Discussion and Takeaways: Iboga, Ethics, and Biocultural Stewardship Joe and Tricia move into a practical and ethically complex discussion about iboga supply chains, demand pressure, and the risks of amplifying interest without matching it with harm reduction and reciprocity. Eastman emphasizes medical screening, responsible messaging, and supporting Indigenous-led stewardship efforts. She also warns that harm can come from both under-trained modern facilitators and irresponsible people claiming traditional legitimacy. Concrete takeaways include: Treat iboga and ibogaine as high-responsibility work that demands safety protocols Avoid casual marketing that encourages risky self-administration Support Indigenous-led biocultural stewardship and reciprocity efforts Give lineage carriers a meaningful seat at the table in modern policy and clinical conversations Frequently Asked Questions Who is Tricia Eastman? Tricia Eastman is an author, facilitator, and founder of Ancestral Heart. Her work focuses on cultural bridging, initiation frameworks, and Indigenous-led stewardship. What is Seeding Consciousness about? The book examines plant medicine through initiatory traditions, emphasizing consultation, ritual, preparation, and integration rather than reductionistic models. Why does Tricia Eastman critique modern psychedelic models? She argues that many models remove the ritual container and long-form preparation that reduce risk and support deeper integration. Is iboga or ibogaine safe? With the right oversite, yes. Eastman stresses that safety depends on cardiac screening, careful protocols, and experienced oversight. She warns against informal or self-guided use. How can people support reciprocity and stewardship? She encourages donating or supporting Indigenous-led biocultural stewardship initiatives like Ancestral Heart and aligning public messaging with harm reduction. Closing Thoughts This episode makes a clear case that Tricia Eastman Seeding Consciousness is not only a book about psychedelics, but a critique of how the field is developing. Eastman argues that a successful future depends on mature containers, serious safety culture, and respectful partnership with lineage carriers, especially as interest in iboga and ibogaine accelerates. Links https://www.ancestralheart.com https://www.innertraditions.com/author/tricia-eastman Transcript Joe Moore Hello, everybody. Welcome back. Joe Moore with you again from Psychedelics Today, joined today by Tricia Eastman. Tricia, you just wrote a book called Seeding Consciousness. We're going to get into that a bunch today, but how are you today? [00:00:16.07] - Tricia Eastman I'm so good. It's exciting to be live. A lot of the podcasts I do are offline, and so it's like we're being witnessed and feels like just can feel the energy behind It's great. [00:00:31.11] - Joe Moore It's fun. It's a totally different energy than maybe this will come out in four months. This is real, and there's people all over the world watching in real-time. And we'll get some comments. So folks, if you're listening, please leave us some comments. And we'd love to chat a little bit later about those. [00:00:49.23] - Tricia Eastman I'm going to join the chat so that I can see... Wait, I just want to make sure I'm able to see the comments, too. Do I hit join the chat? [00:01:01.17] - Joe Moore Sometimes you can, sometimes you can't. I can throw comments on the screen so we can see them together. [00:01:07.02] - Tricia Eastman Cool. [00:01:08.03] - Joe Moore Yeah. So it'll be fun. Give us comments, people. Please, please, please, please. Yeah, you're all good. So Tricia, I want to chat about your book. Tell us high level about your book, and then we're going to start digging into you. [00:01:22.10] - Tricia Eastman So Seeding Consciousness is the title, and I know it's a long subtitled Plant Medicine, Ancestral Wisdom, Psychedelic Initiation. And I felt like it was absolutely necessary for the times that we are in right now. When I was in Gabon in 2018, in one of my many initiations, as as an initiative, the Fung lineage of Buiti, which I've been practicing in for 11 years now, I was given the instructions. I was given the integration homework to write this book. And I would say I don't see that as this divine thing, like you were given the assignment. I think I was given the assignment because it's hard as F to write a book. I mean, it really tests you on so many levels. I mean, even just thinking about putting yourself out there from a legal perspective, and then also, does it make any sense? Will anyone buy it? And on Honestly, it's not me. It's really what I was given to write, but it's based on my experience working with several thousand people over the years. And really, the essence of it is that in our society, we've taken this reductionistic approach in psychedelics, where we've really taken out the ritual. [00:02:54.05] - Tricia Eastman Even now with the FDA trial for MDMA for PTSD. There's even conversations with a lot of companies that are moving forward, psychedelics, through the FDA process, through that pathway, that are talking about taking the therapy out. And the reality is that in these ancient initiatic traditions, they were very long, drawn out experiences with massive purification rituals, massive amounts of different types of practice in order to prepare oneself to meet the medicine. Different plants were taken, like vomatifs and different types of purification rituals were performed. And then you would go into this profound initiatic experience because the people that were working with you that were in, we call it the Nema, who gives initiations, had decades of training and experience doing these types of initiatic experiences. So if you compare that to the modern day framework, we have people that go online and get a certificate and start serving people medicine or do it in a context where maybe there isn't even an established container or facilitator whatsoever. And so really, the idea is, how can we take the essence of this ancient wisdom wisdom, like when you look at initiation, the first step is consultation, which is really going deep into the history of the individual using different types of techniques that are Indigenous technologies, such as different forms of divination, such as cowrie shell readings. [00:04:52.18] - Tricia Eastman And there's different types of specific divinations that are done in different branches of And before one individual would even go into any initiation, you need to understand the person and where they're coming from. So it's really about that breakdown of all of that, and how can we integrate elements of that into a more modern framework. [00:05:24.23] - Joe Moore Brilliant. All right. Well, thank you for that. And let's chat about you. You've got a really interesting past, very dynamic, could even call it multicultural. And you've got a lot of experience that informed this book. So how did this stuff come forward for you? [00:05:50.02] - Tricia Eastman I mean, I've never been the person to seek anything. My family on my mother's side is from Mexico, from Oaxaca, Trique, Mixtec, and Michica. And we had a long lineage of practice going back to my, at least I know from my great, great grandmother, practicing a blend of mestiza, shamanism, combining centerea and Catholicism together. So it's more of like a syncratic mestiza, mestiza being mixed tradition. And so I found it really interesting because later on, when my grandfather came to the United States, he ended up joining the military. And in being in the US, he didn't really have a place. He's very devout spiritual man, but he didn't have a place to practice this blended spiritual tradition. So the mystical aspect of it went behind. And as I started reconnecting to my ancestral lineage, this came forth that I was really starting to understand the mystical aspect of my ancestry. And interestingly, at the same time, was asked to work at Crossroads Abigain in Mexico. And it's so interesting to see that Mexico has been this melting pot and has been the place where Abigain has chosen to plant its roots, so to say, and has treated thousands of veterans. [00:07:36.28] - Tricia Eastman I got to be part of the group of facilitators back over 10 years ago. We treated the first Navy Seals with Abogaine, and that's really spurred a major interest in Abogaine. Now it's in every headline. I also got 10 I got initiated into the Fung lineage of Buiti and have really studied the traditional knowledge. I created a nonprofit back in 2019 called Ancestral Heart, which is really focused on Indigenous-led stewardship. Really, the book helps as a culmination of the decade of real-world experience of combining My husband, Dr. Joseph Barzulia. He's a psychologist. He's also a pretty well-known published researcher in Abigain and 5MEO-DMT, but also deeply spiritual and deeply in respect for the Indigenous traditions that have carried these medicines before us. So we've really been walking this complex path of world bridging between how we establish these relationships and how we bring some of these ancient knowledge systems back into the forefront, but not in a way of fetishizing them, but in a way of deeply respecting them and what we can learn, but from our own assimilation and context versus appropriation. So really, I think the body of my work is around that cultural bridging. [00:09:31.07] - Joe Moore That's brilliant. And yeah, there's some really fun stuff I learned in the book so far that I want to get into later. But next question is, who is your intended audience here? Because this is an interesting book that could hit a few categories, but I'm curious to hear from you. [00:09:49.02] - Tricia Eastman It's so funny because when I wrote the book, I wasn't thinking, oh, what's my marketing plan? What's my pitch? Who's my intended audience? Because it was my homework, and I knew I needed to write the book, and maybe that was problematic in the sense that I had to go to publishers and have a proposal. And then I had to create a formula in hindsight. And I would say the demographic of the book mirrors the demographic of where people are in the psychedelic space, which It's skewed slightly more male, although very female. I think sex isn't necessarily important when we're thinking about the level of trauma and the level of spiritual healing and this huge deficit that we have in mental health, which is really around our disconnection from our true selves, from our heart, from our souls, from this idea of of what Indigenous knowledge systems call us the sacred. It's really more of an attitude of care and presence. I'm sure we could give it a different name so that individuals don't necessarily have any guard up because we have so much negative conditioning related to the American history of religion, which a lot of people have rejected, and some have gone back to. [00:11:37.06] - Tricia Eastman But I think we need to separate it outside of that. I would say the demographic is really this group of I would say anywhere from 30 to 55 male females that are really in this space where maybe they're doing some of the wellness stuff. They're starting to figure some things out, but it's just not getting them there. And when something happens in life, for example, COVID-19 would be a really great example. It knocks them off course, and they just don't have the tools to find that connection. And I would say it even spans across people that do a lot of spiritual practice and maybe are interested in what psychedelics can do in addition to those practices. Because when we look at my view on psychedelics, is they fit within a whole spectrum of wellness and self-care and any lineage of spiritual practice, whether it's yoga or Sufism or Daoist tradition. But they aren't necessarily the thing that... I think there's an over focus on the actual substance itself and putting it on a pedestal that I think is problematic in our society because it goes back to our religious context in the West is primarily exoteric, meaning that we're seeking something outside of ourselves to fulfill ourselves. [00:13:30.29] - Tricia Eastman And so I think that when we look at psychedelic medicines as this exoteric thing versus when we look at initiatory traditions are about inward and direct experience. And all of these spiritual practices and all of these modalities are really designed to pull you back into yourself, into having a direct relationship with yourself and direct experience. And I feel like the minute that you are able to forge that connection, which takes practice and takes discipline, then you don't need to necessarily look at all these other tools outside of yourself. It's like one of my favorite analogies is the staff on the Titanic were moving the furniture around as it was sinking, thinking that they might save the boat from sinking by moving the furniture around. I think that's how we've been with a lot of ego-driven modalities that aren't actually going into the full unconscious, which is where we need to go to have these direct experiences. Sorry for the long answer, but it is for everybody, and it's not just about psychedelics. Anyone can take something from this doing any spiritual work. But we talk a lot about the Indigenous philosophy and how that ties in alongside with spiritual practice and more of this inner way of connecting with oneself and doing the work. [00:15:21.22] - Tricia Eastman And I think also really not sugar coating it in the sense that the psychedelics aren't going to save us. They're not going to cure PTSD. Nothing you take will. It's you that does the work. And if you don't do the work, you're not going to have an 87 % success rate with opioid use disorder or whatever it is, 60 something % for treatment-resistant depression or whatever. It's like you have to do the work. And so we can't keep putting the power in the modality reality or the pill. [00:16:03.18] - Joe Moore Yeah, that makes sense. So you did an interesting thing here with this book, and it was really highlighting aspects of the alchemical process. And people don't necessarily have exposure. They hear the words alchemy. I get my shoulders go up when I hear alchemizing, like transmutation. But it's a thing. And how do we then start communicating this from Jung? I found out an interesting thing recently as an ongoing student. Carl Jung didn't necessarily have access to all that many manuscripts. There's so many alchemical manuscripts available now compared to what he had. And as a result, our understanding of alchemy has really evolved. Western alchemy, European alchemy, everybody. Perhaps Kmetic, too. I don't know. You could speak to that more. I don't keep track of what's revealed in Egypt. So it's really interesting to present that in a forward way? How has it been received so far? Or were you nervous to present this in this way? [00:17:25.10] - Tricia Eastman I mean, honestly, I think the most important The important thing is that in working with several thousand people over the years, people think that taking the psychedelic and the trauma is going to go away. It's always there. I mean, we We archetypically will have the shadow as long as we need the shadow to learn. And so even if we go into a journey and we transcend it, it's still there. So I would say that the The feedback has been really incredible. I mean, the people that are reading... I mean, I think because I'm weaving so many different, complex and deep concepts into one book, it might be a little harder to market. And I think the biggest bummer was that I was really trying to be respectful to my elders and not say anything in the title about Iboga and Abigain, even though I talk a lot about it in the book, and it's such a hot topic, it's really starting to take off. But the people that have read it really consider it. They really do the work. They do the practices in the book, and I'm just getting really profound feedback. So that's exciting to me because really, ultimately, alchemy... [00:18:55.22] - Tricia Eastman Yeah, you're right. It gets used Used a lot in marketing lingo and sitting in the depth of the tar pit. For me, when I was in Gabon, I remember times where I really had to look at things that were so dark in my family history that I didn't even realize were mine until later connected to my lineage. And the dark darkness connected to that and just feeling that and then knowing really the truth of our being is that we aren't those things. We're in this process of changing and being, and so nothing is is fixed, but there is a alchemical essence in just learning to be with it. And so not always can we just be with something. And and have it change, but there are many times that we can actually just be with those parts of ourselves and be accepting, where it's not like you have to have this intellectualized process It's just like, first you have the negrado, then you tune into the albeda, and you receive the insights, and you journal about it, and da, da, da, da, da Action, Mars aspect of it, the rubeda of the process. It's not like that at all. [00:20:44.15] - Tricia Eastman It's really that the wisdom that comes from it because you're essentially digesting black goo, which is metaphoric to the oil that we use to power all of society that's pulled deep out of the Earth, and it becomes gold. It becomes... And really, the way I like to think of it is like, in life, we are here to create, and we are not here to heal ourselves. So if you go to psychedelic medicine and you want to heal yourself, you're going to be in for... You're just going to be stuck and burnt out because that's not what we're here to do as human beings, and you'll never run out of things to heal. But if you You think of the negrado in alchemy as gasoline in your car. Every time you go back in, it's like refilling your gas tank. And whatever you go back in for as you're moving in the journey, it's almost like that bit of negrado is like a lump of coal that's burning in the gas tank. And that gets you to the next point to which there's another thing related to the creative process. So it's like As you're going in that process, you're going to hit these speed bumps and these obstacles in the way. [00:22:07.29] - Tricia Eastman And those obstacles in the way, that's the healing. So if you just get in the car in the human vehicle and you drive and you continue to pull out the shadow material and face it, you're going to keep having the steam, but not just focus on it, having that intention, having that connection to moving forward in life. And I hate to use those words because they sound so growth and expansion oriented, which life isn't always. It's evolutionary and deevolutionary. It's always in spirals. But ultimately, you're in a creative process would be the best way to orient it. So I think when we look at alchemy from that standpoint, then it's productive. Effective. Otherwise, it sounds like some brand of truffle salt or something. [00:23:09.12] - Joe Moore Yeah, I think it's a... If people want to dig in, amazing. It's just a way to describe processes, and it's super informative if you want to go there, but it's not necessary for folks to do the work. And I like how you framed it quite a bit. So let's see. There is one bit, Tricia, that my ears really went up on this one point about a story about Actually, let me do a tangent for you real quick, and then we're going to come back to this story. So are you familiar with the tribe, the Dogon, in Africa? Of course. Yeah. So they're a group that looks as though they were involved in Jewish and/or Egyptian traditions, and then ended up on the far side of like, what, Western Africa, far away, and had their own evolution away from Egypt and the Middle East. Fascinating. Fascinating stories, fascinating astronomy, and much more. I don't know too much about the religion. I love their masks. But this drew an analogy for me, as you were describing that the Buiti often have stories about having lineage to pre-dynastic Egyptian culture. I guess we'll call it that for now, the Kometic culture. [00:24:44.23] - Joe Moore I had not heard that before. Shame on me because I haven't really read any books about Buiti as a religion or organization, or anything to this point. But I found that really interesting to know that now, at least I'm aware of two groups claiming lineage to that ancient world of magic. Can you speak about that at all for us? Yeah. [00:25:09.24] - Tricia Eastman So first off, there really aren't any books talking about that. Some of the things I've learned from elders that I've spoke with and asked in different lineages in Masoco and in Fong Buiti, there's a few things. One, We lived in many different eras. Even if you go into ancient texts of different religions, creation stories, and biblical stories, they talk about these great floods that wiped out the planet. One of the things that Atum talks about, who is one of my Buiti fathers who passed a couple years ago, is Is the understanding that before we were in these different areas, you had Mu or Lumaria, you had Atlantis, and then you had our current timeline. And the way that consciousness was within those timelines was very different and the way the Earth was. You had a whole another continent called Atlantis that many people, even Plato, talks about a very specific location of. And what happened, I believe during that time period, Africa, at least the Saharan band of the desert was much more lush, and it was a cultural melting pot. So if you think about, for example, the Pygmy tribes, which are in Equatorial Africa, they are the ones that introduced Iboga to the Buiti. [00:27:08.08] - Tricia Eastman If you look at the history of ancient Egypt, what I'm told is that the Pygmies lived in Pharaonic Egypt, all the way up until Pharaonic Egypt. And there was a village. And if you look on the map in Egypt, you see a town called Bawiti, B-A-W-I-T-I. And that is the village where they lived. And I have an interesting hypothesis that the God Bess, if you look at what he's wearing, it's the exact same to a T as what the Pygmies wear. And the inspiration for which a lot of the Buiti, because they use the same symbology, because each part of the outfit, whether it's the Mocingi, which is like this animal skin, or the different feathers, they use the parrot feather as a symbology of speech and communication, all of these things are codes within the ceremony that were passed along. And so when you look at Bess, he's wearing almost the exact same outfit that the Pygmies are wearing and very similar to if you see pictures of the ceremonies of Misoko or Gonde Misoko, which I would say is one of the branches of several branches, but that are closer to the original way of Buiti of the jungle, so closer to the way the Pygmies practice. [00:28:59.16] - Tricia Eastman So If you look at Bess, just to back my hypothesis. So you look at Neteru. Neteru were the... They called them the gods of Egypt, and they were all giant. And many say the word nature actually means nature, but they really represented the divine qualities of nature. There's best. Look at him. And a lot of the historians said he's the God of Harmeline and children and happiness. I think he's more than the God of Harmeline, and I think that the Pygmies worked with many different plants and medicines, and really the ultimate aspect of it was freedom. If you think about liberation, like the libation, number one, that's drunkiness. Number two, liberation, you of freeing the joyous child from within, our true nature of who we are. You look at every temple in Egypt, and you look at these giant statues, and then you have this tiny little pygmy God, and there's no other gods that are like Bess. He's one of a kind. He's in his own category. You've You've got giant Hathor, you've got giant Thoth, you've got giant Osiris, Isis, and then you've got little tiny Bess. And so I think it backs this hypothesis. [00:30:48.27] - Tricia Eastman And my understanding from practitioners of Dogon tradition is that they also believe that their ancestors came from Egypt, and they definitely have a lot of similarity in the teachings that I've seen and been exposed to just from here. I mean, you can... There's some more modern groups, and who's to know, really, the validity of all of it. But there are some, even on YouTube, where you can see there's some more modern Dogon temples that are talking in English or English translation about the teachings, and they definitely line up with Kamehdi teachings. And so my hypothesis around that is that the Dogon are probably most likely pygmy descendants as, And the pygmy were basically run out of Bawiti because there was jealousy with the priest, because there was competition, because all of the offerings that were being made in the temple, there was a lot of power, connected to each of the temples. And there was competitiveness even amongst the different temples, lining the Nile and all of that, of who was getting the most offerings and who was getting the most visits. And so the Pygmies essentially were run out, and they migrated, some of them migrated south to Gabon and Equatorial Africa. [00:32:43.07] - Tricia Eastman And then If you think about the physical changes that happened during these planetary catastrophes, which we know that there had been more than one based on many historical books. So that whole area went through a desertification process, and the Equatorial rainforest remained. So it's highly likely even that Iboga, at one point, grew in that region as well. [00:33:18.00] - Joe Moore Have you ever seen evidence of artwork depicting Iboga there in Egypt? [00:33:24.17] - Tricia Eastman There are several different death temples. I'm trying to remember the name of the exact one that I went to, but on the columns, it looked like Iboga trees that were carved into the columns. And I think what's interesting about this... So Seychet is the divine scribe, the scribe of Egyptian wisdom. And she was basically, essentially the sidekick of Thoth. Thoth was who brought a lot of the ancient wisdom and people like Pythagoras and many of the ancient philosophers in Roman times went and studied in a lot of these Thoth lineage mystery schools. When you look at the the river of the Nile on the east side, east is the energy liturgy of initiation. It's always like if you go into a sweat lodge or if you see an ancient temple, usually the doorway is facing the east. West is where the sun sets, and so that's the death. And what's interesting about that is that it was on the west side in the death temple that you would see these aboga plants. But also Seixat was the one who was the main goddess depicted in the hieroglyphs, and there was other hieroglyphs. I mean, if you look at the hieroglyphs of Seixat, it looks like she has a cannabis leaf above her head, and a lot of people have hypothesized that, that it's cannabis. [00:35:16.03] - Tricia Eastman Of course, historians argue about that. And then she's also carrying a little vessel that looks like it has some mushrooms in it. And obviously, she has blue Lotus. Why would she be carrying around blue Lotus and mushrooms? I don't know. It sounds like some initiation. [00:35:36.19] - Joe Moore Yeah, I love that. Well, thanks so much for going there with me. This photo of Seixet. There's some good animations, but everybody just go look at the temple carvings picturing this goddess. It's stunning. And obviously, cannabis. I think it's hard to argue not. I've seen all these like, mushroom, quote, unquote, mushroom things everywhere. I'm like, Yeah, maybe. But this is like, Yes, that's clear. [00:36:06.27] - Tricia Eastman And if you look at what she's wearing, it's the exact same outfit as Bess, which is classic Basically, how the medicine woman or medicine man or what you would call shaman, the outfit that the healers would wear, the shamans or the oracles, those of the auracular arts, different forms of divination would wear. So if you really follow that and you see, Oh, what's Isis wearing? What's Hathor wearing? What's Thoth wearing? You can tell she's very specifically the healer. And it's interesting because they call her the divine scribe. So she's actually downloading, my guess is she's taking plants and downloading from the primordial. [00:37:02.00] - Joe Moore Well, okay. Thanks for bringing that up. That was a lovely part of your book, was your... There's a big initiation sequence, and then you got to go to this place where you could learn many things. Could you speak to that a little bit? And I hope that's an okay one to bring up. [00:37:22.22] - Tricia Eastman Are you talking about the time that I was in initiation and I went to the different ashrams, the different realms in, like Yogananda calls them astral schools that you go and you just download? It seemed like astral schools, but it seemed like it was a Bwiti initiation, where you were in silence for three days, and then Yeah, that one. So there were several different... I mean, I've done seven official initiations, and then I've had many other initiatic experiences. And I would say this one was incredible. Incredibly profound because what it showed me first was that all of the masters of the planet, it was showing me everyone from Kurt Cobain to Bob Marley to Einstein, all the people that had some special connection to an intelligence that was otherworldly, that they were essentially going to the same place, like they were visiting the same place, and they would go. And so the first thing I noticed was that I recognized a lot of people, and current, I'm not going I don't want to say names of people, but I recognize people that are alive today that I would say are profound thinkers that were going to these places as well. [00:38:57.05] - Tricia Eastman And interestingly, then I was taken into one of the classrooms, and in the classroom, this one, specifically, it showed me that you could download any knowledge instantaneously That essentially, having a connection to that school allowed you to download music or understand very complex ideas ideas of mathematics or physics or science that would take people like lifetimes to understand. So it was essentially showing this. And a lot of people might discredit that, that that might be a specific... That we as humans can do that. Well, I'm not saying that it's not that. I don't I don't want to say that it's anything. But what I can say is that I have definitely noticed the level of access that I have within my consciousness. And also what I notice with the masters of Bwiti, specifically in terms of the level of intelligence that they're accessing and that it's different. It's got a different quality to it. And so it was a really profound teaching. And one of the things, too, that I've learned is I use it to help me learn specific things. I don't know if I can give a positive testimonial, but I am learning French. [00:40:55.00] - Tricia Eastman And I noticed when I was in Aspen at the Abigain meeting, and I was with Mubeiboual, who speaks French, I started saying things French that I didn't even realize that I knew to say. I've had these weird moments where I'm actually using this tool And I'm also using it. I have a Gabonese harp. I don't know if you can see it up on the shelf over there. But I also went and asked for some help with downloading some assistance in the harp, then we'll see how that goes. [00:41:38.17] - Joe Moore Yeah. So that's brilliant. I'm thinking of other precedent for that outside of this context, and I can think of a handful. So I love that, like savant syndrome. And then there's a classic text called Ars Notoria that helps accelerate learning, allegedly. And then there's a number of other really interesting things that can help us gain these bits of wisdom and knowledge. And it does feel a little bit like the Dogon. The story I get is the receiving messages from the dog star, and therefore have all sorts of advanced information that they shouldn't we call it. Yeah. Yeah, which is fascinating. We have that worldwide. I think there's plenty of really interesting stuff here. So what I appreciated, Tricia, about how you're structuring your book, or you did structure your book, is that it it seems at the same time, a memoir, on another hand, workbook, like here are some exercises. On the other hand, like here's some things you might try in session. I really appreciated that. It was like people try to get really complicated when we talk about things like IFS. I'm like, well, you don't necessarily have to. You could. Or is this just a human thing, a human way to look at working with our parts? [00:43:20.15] - Joe Moore I don't know. Do you have any thoughts about the way you were approaching this parts work in your book versus how complicated some people make it feel? [00:43:30.00] - Tricia Eastman Yeah. I find that this is just my personal opinion, and no way to discredit Richard Schwartz's work. But parts work has existed in shamanism since forever. When we really look at even in ancient Egypt, Issus, she put Osiris act together. That was the metaphorical story of soul retrieval, which is really the spiritual journey of us reclaiming these pieces of ourselves that we've been disconnected from a society level or individually. And within the context of parts work, it's very organic and it feels other worldly. It's not like there's ever a force where I'm in the process with someone. And a lot of times I would even go into the process with people because they weren't accustomed to how to work with Iboga or game, and so they would be stuck. And then the minute I was like, you know, Iboga, in the tradition, it's really about... It's like the game Marco Polo. It's call and response. And so you're really an active participant, and you're supposed to engage with the spirits. And so the minute that things would show up, it'd be more about like, oh, what do you see? What's coming up here? Asking questions about it, being curious. [00:45:17.07] - Tricia Eastman If you could engage with it, sometimes there's processes where you can't really engage with things at all. So everything that I'm talking about is It was organically shown up as an active engagement process that it wasn't like we were going in. There have been some where you can guide a little bit, but you never push. It might be something like, go to your house, and it being completely unattached. And if they can't go there, then obviously the psyche doesn't want to go there, but it's really an exercise to help them to connect to their soul. And then in contrast, IFS is like, let's work on these different parts and identify these different parts of ourselves. But then let's give them fixed titles, and let's continually in a non-altered state of consciousness, not when we're meditating, not when we're actively in a state where we have the plasticity to change the pathway in the unconscious mind, but we're working in the egoic mind, and we're talking to these parts of ourselves. That could be helpful in the day-to-day struggles. Let's say you have someone who has a lot of rumination or a very active mind to have something to do with that. [00:46:57.01] - Tricia Eastman But that's not going to be the end-all, be-all solution to their problem. It's only moving the deck chairs around on the Titanic because you're still working in the framework where, I'm sorry, the Titanic is still sinking, and it may or may not be enough. It may or may not produce a reliable outcome that could be connected with some level of true relief and true connection within oneself. And so I think that people just... I feel like they almost get a little too... And maybe it's because we're so isolated and lonely, it's like, Oh, now I've got parts. I'm not by myself. I've got my fire I've got my firefighter, and I've got my guardian, and all these things. And I definitely think that IFS is a really great initiator into the idea of engaging with parts of ourselves and how to talk to them. But I don't think it's... And I think doing a session here and there, for some people, can be incredibly helpful, but to all of a sudden incorporate it in like a dogma is toxic. It's dangerous. And that's what we have to be really careful of. [00:48:23.25] - Joe Moore So thank you for that. There's a complicated discussion happening at the Aspen meeting. I think I was only sitting maybe 30 feet away from you. Sorry, I didn't say hi. But the folks from Blessings of the Forest were there, and I got a chance to chat with a number of them and learn more about nuclear protocols, biopiracy, literal piracy, and smuggling, and the works. I'm curious. This is a really complicated question, and I'm sorry for a complicated question this far in. But it's like, as we talk about this stuff publicly and give it increased profile, we are de facto giving more juice and energy to black markets to pirate. We're adding fuel to this engine that we don't necessarily want to see. Cameroon has nothing left, pretty much. From what I'm told, people from Cameroon are coming in, stealing it from Cabona, bringing it back, and then shipping it out. And there's It's like a whole worldwide market for this stuff. I witnessed it. This stuff. Yeah, right? This is real. So the people, the Buiti, and certain Gabanese farmers, are now being pirated. And international demand does not care necessarily about Nagoya compliance. United States didn't sign Nagoya protocol for this biopiracy protection, but we're not the only violator of these ethics, right? [00:50:00.22] - Joe Moore It's everywhere. So how do we balance thinking about talking about IBOCA publicly, given that there's no clean way to get this stuff in the United States that is probably not pirated materials? And as far as I know, there's only one, quote unquote, Nagoya compliant place. I've heard stories that I haven't shared publicly yet, that there's other groups that are compliant, too. But it's a really interesting conversation, and I'm curious of your perspectives there. [00:50:34.04] - Tricia Eastman I mean, this is a very long, drawn-out question, so forgive me if I give you a long, drawn-out answer. [00:50:41.01] - Joe Moore Go for it. [00:50:41.26] - Tricia Eastman It's all good. So in reality, I do believe... You know the first Ebo, Abogaine, that was done in the country was experiments on eight Black prisoners at a hospital under the MK program. [00:51:01.16] - Joe Moore Pre-lutz off, we were doing Abogaine tests on people. [00:51:06.00] - Tricia Eastman Yeah, so pre-Lutz off. I have a hypothesis, although a lot of people would already know me. [00:51:12.07] - Joe Moore No, I didn't know that. Thank you for sharing that with me. [00:51:14.13] - Tricia Eastman That's great. I'll send you some stuff on that. But the Aboga wanted to be here. The Abogaine wanted to be here. I think it's a complex question because on one side of the coin, you have the spirit of plants, which are wild and crazy sometimes. And then you have the initiatory traditions, which create a scaffolding to essentially put the lightning in a bottle, so to say, so that it's less damaging. [00:51:51.13] - Joe Moore It's almost like a temple structure around it. [00:51:53.16] - Tricia Eastman I like that. Yeah. Put a temple structure around it because it's like, yeah, you can work with new nuclear energy, but you have to wear gloves, you have to do all these different safety precautions. I would say that that's why these traditions go hand in hand with the medicine. So some people might say that the agenda of Iboga and even Abogaine might be a different agenda than the Buiti. And ultimately, whether we are Indigenous or not, the Earth belongs to everyone. It's capitalism and the patriarchy that created all these borders and all these separations between people. And in reality, we still have to acknowledge what the essence of Buiti is, which is really the cause and effect relationship that we have with everything that we do. And so some people might use the term karma. And that is if you're in Abogaine clinic and you're putting a bunch of videos out online, and that's spurring a trend on TikTok, which we already know is a big thing where people are selling illegal market, iBoga, is Is any of that your responsibility? Yes. And if I was to sit down with a kogi kagaba, which are the mamus from Colombia, or if I were to sit down with a who said, Hey, let's do a divination, and let's ask some deep questions about this. [00:53:54.01] - Tricia Eastman It would look at things on a bigger perspective than just like, Oh, this person is completely responsible for this. But when we're talking about a medicine that is so intense, and when I was younger, when I first met the medicine, I first was introduced in 2013 was when I first found out about Abigain and Iboga. And in 2014, I lived with someone who lived with a 14th generation Misoko, maybe it was 10th generation Misoco in Costa Rica. And then he decided to just start serving people medicine. And he left this person paralyzed, one person that he treated for the rest of his life. And Aubrey Marcus, it was his business partner for On It, and he's publicly talked about this, about the story behind this. If you go into his older podcasts and blog posts and stuff, he talks about the situation. And the reality is that this medicine requires a massive amount of responsibility. It has crazy interactions, such as grapefruit juice, for example, and all kinds of other things. And so it's not just the responsibility towards the buiti, it's also the responsibility of, does me talking about this without really talking about the safety and the risks, encourage other people. [00:55:49.10] - Tricia Eastman One of the big problems, back in the day, I went to my first guita conference, Global Abogaine Therapy Alliance in 2016. And And then, ISEARs was debating because there was all these people buying Abogaine online and self-detoxing and literally either dying or ending up in the hospital. And they're like, should we release protocols and just give people instructions on how to do this themselves? And I was like, no, absolutely not. We need to really look at the fact that this is an initiatory tradition, that it's been practiced for thousands of that the minimum level at which a person is administering in Gabon is 10 years of training. The way that we've made up for those mistakes, or sorry, not mistakes, lack of training is that we've used medical oversight. Most of the medical oversight that we've received has been a result of mistakes that were made in the space. The first patient that MAPS treated, they killed them because they gave them way over the amount of what milligrams per kilogram of Abigain that you should give somebody. Every single mistake that was made, which a lot of them related to loss of life, became the global Abogane Therapy Safety Guidelines. [00:57:28.19] - Tricia Eastman And so we've already learned from our mistakes here. And so I think it's really important that we understand that there's that aspect, which is really the blood on our hands of if we're not responsible, if we're encouraging people to do this, and we're talking about it in a casual way on Instagram. Like, yeah, microdosing. Well, did you know there was a guy prosecuted this last year, personal trainer, who killed someone And from microdosing in Colorado, the event happened in 2020, but he just got sentenced early 2025. These are examples that we need to look at as a collective that we need. So that's one side of it. And then the other side of it is the reciprocity piece. And the reciprocity piece related to that is, again, the cause and effect. Is A Abogaine clinic talking about doing Abogaine and doing video testimonials, spurring the efforts that are actively being made in Gabon to protect the cultural lineage and to protect the medicine. The reality is every Abogaine clinic is booked out for... I heard the next year, I don't know if that's fact or fiction, but someone told me for a year, because because of all the stuff with all the celebrities that are now talking about it. [00:59:05.20] - Tricia Eastman And then on top of that, you have all these policy, all these different advocacy groups that are talking about it. Essentially, it's not going to be seven... It's going to be, I would say, seven to 10 years before something gets through the FDA. We haven't even done a phase one safety trial for any of the Abigain that's being commercialized. And even if there's some magic that happens within the Trump administration in the next two years that changes the rules to fast track it, it's not going to cut it down probably more than a year. So then you're looking at maybe six years minimum. That whole time, all that strain is being put on Gabon. And so if you're not supporting Gabon, what's happening is it's losing a battle because the movement is gaining momentum, and Gabon cannot keep up with that momentum. It's a tiny country the size of Colorado. So my belief is that anyone who's benefiting from all the hype around Iboga and Abogayne or personally benefited with healing within themselves should be giving back, either to Ancestral Heart, to Blessings of the Forest, to any group that is doing authentic Indigenous-led biocultural stewardship work. [01:00:45.21] - Joe Moore Thanks for that. It's important that we get into some detail here. I wish we had more time to go further on it. [01:00:54.17] - Tricia Eastman I'll do a quick joke. I know. I have a lot. [01:00:57.17] - Joe Moore Yes. Now do Mike Tyson. Kidding. Yeah. So what did we maybe miss that you want to make sure people hear about your book, any biocultural stuff that you want to get out there? You can go for a few more minutes, too, if you have a few things you want to say. [01:01:20.03] - Tricia Eastman I mean, really, thank you so much for this opportunity. Thank you for caring and being so passionate about the context related to Buiti, which I think is so important. I would just say that I've been working with this medicine for... I've known about it for 13 years, and I've been working with it for 11 years, and this is my life. I've devoted my life to this work, me and my husband, both. And there isn't anything greater of a blessing that it has brought in our life, but it also is it's a very saturnian energy, so it brings chaos. It brings the deepest challenges and forces you to face things that you need to face. But also on the other side of the coin, everything that I've devoted and given back in service to this work has exponentially brought blessing in my life. So again, I see the issue with people doing these shortened processes, whether it's in an Abigain clinic where you just don't have the ritualistic sacred aspects of an initiatic context and really the rituals that really help integrate and ground the medicine. But you still have this opportunity to continue to receive the blessings. [01:03:09.23] - Tricia Eastman And I really feel in our current psychedelic movement, we essentially have a Bugatti. These medicines are the most finely-tuned sports car that can do every... Even more than that, more like a spaceship. We have this incredible tool, but we're driving it in first gear. We don't even really know how to operate it. It's like, well, I guess you could say flight of the Navigator, but that was a self-driving thing, and I guess, psychedelics are self-driving. But I feel that we are discounting ourselves so greatly by not looking into our past of how these medicines were used. I really think the biggest piece around that is consulting the genuine lineage carriers like Buiti elders, like Mubu Bwal, who's the head of Maganga Manan Zembe, And giving them a seat at the head of the table, really, because there's so much I know in my tradition, about what we do to bring cardiac safety. And why is it that people aren't dying as much in Gabon as they're dying in Abigan clinics. [01:04:37.28] - Joe Moore Shots fired. All right. I like it. Thank you. Thank you for everything you've done here today, I think harm reduction is incredibly important. Let's stop people dying out there. Let's do some harm reduction language. I actually was able to sweet talk my way into getting a really cool EKG recently, which I thought really great about. If you can speak clinician, you can go a long way sometimes. [01:05:11.20] - Tricia Eastman Yeah. Oh, no, go ahead. Sorry. [01:05:15.17] - Joe Moore No, that's all. That's all. So harm reduction is important. How do we keep people safe? How do we keep healing people? And thank you for all your hard work. [01:05:27.22] - Tricia Eastman Thank you. I really appreciate it. We're all figuring it out. No one's perfect. So I'm not trying to fire any shots at anybody. I'm just like, Guys, please listen. We need to get in right relationship with the medicine. And we need to include these stakeholders. And on the other side of the coin, I just want to add that there's a lot of irresponsible, claimed traditional practitioners that are running retreat centers in Mexico and Costa Rica and other places that are also causing a lot of harm, too. So the medical monitoring is definitely, if you're going to do anything, Because these people don't have the training, the worst thing you could do is not have someone going in blind that doesn't have training and not have had an EKG and all that stuff. But we've got a long way to go, and I'm excited to help support in a productive way, all coming together. And that's what me and Joseph have been devoted to. [01:06:45.02] - Joe Moore Brilliant. Tricia Eastman, thank you so much. Everybody should go check out your book Seeding Consciousness out now. The audiobook's lovely, too. Thank you so much for being here. And until next time. [01:07:00.14] - Tricia Eastman Thank you.    

This week, I'm excited to welcome Dr Jack Kruse. Dr Kruse is a board certified neurosurgeon, health educator, and proponent of unconventional health and wellness practices. Dr. Kruse's philosophy often challenges conventional medical approaches, emphasizing the importance of natural living and reconnecting with ancestral health principles. In this episode, Dr Kruse explains the current state of play around decentralised medicine. View all episodes at www.thehealthsessions.com.au Learn more about Dr Jack Kruse at https://jackkruse.com Episode Transcript: Stuart Cooke (00:01.252) Hey guys, this is Stu from the Health Sessions and I am delighted to welcome Dr. Jack Cruz to the podcast. Dr. Cruz, how are you? Yeah, I'm very well, very well indeed. Very excited to have this conversation. But first up for all of our listeners that may not be familiar with you or your work, I'd love it you could just share a little about yourself, please. Dr Jack Kruse (00:08.76) Pretty good, how about you? Dr Jack Kruse (00:21.976) Yeah, I'm a board certified neurosurgeon in the United States. I have been living in El Salvador for the last four years. When COVID hit, I began to question a lot of the things that were present, and I decided to unretire, go back and do trauma call to see if they were lying to us or not. And I found out that they were. So then I decided to do something about it. and I wound up presenting to the Bukele administration in El Salvador and they shared some of their country-wide data with me and things that they were facing. And they asked me, what did I think was the solution? And I told them, I think you need to have a constitutional amendment put into your constitution so this would never happen again. And I think you need to re-educate some of the people in your health ministry, I think. You need to educate the doctors. You need to tell people the truth. You need to have freedom of the press. You need to embrace freedom. And this was an easy message for Bukele because he gave his people freedom almost as soon as he got elected the first time in 2019, 2020 made Bitcoin legal tender. And that basically returns freedom back to people and their, and their money. So since he did that first, and then he cleaned up the crime problem in the country, fixing the next problem actually was pretty easy. The real hard part, since you're Australian, I can imagine you know this because it's still going on in your country, that you can't get even people to admit that there was a problem with COVID. And if you can't admit there's a problem, you can't solve for X. And that's kind of where we're going. And then after me helping President Bukele, then... Stuart Cooke (01:59.77) Mm-hmm. Dr Jack Kruse (02:16.854) that information started to bleed into Bobby Kennedy's vice presidential candidate, Nicole Shanahan. And then Bobby called me about the law and then they started to use the law in their campaign. And then next year, know, this summer he joins forces with Donald Trump and then Donald Trump has got the message now too. So I would consider myself more of a lethal pathogen for probably the COVID narrative than most other people that you could probably have on. Stuart Cooke (02:45.957) Fantastic, wow, that is quite an introduction. And very interesting times ahead. Let's see what happens. mean, game on. Everything that we've been speaking about in the counterculture world of health, wellness and human performance is about to take centre stage. So really, really interested. So coming from a traditional medicine background into being one of the... one of the leaders in the biohacking and wellness space now. How do you look at traditional medicine right now? Dr Jack Kruse (03:16.664) Traditional medicine is like a sweet on the Titanic. They would like to renovate it and I would like the boat to sink. Why? Because we've gone past the point, you know, it's like a patient with metastatic cancer in just about every Oregon. You know, the time to fix it was to do the prevention earlier, but you have to realize that Stuart Cooke (03:26.829) Right. Dr Jack Kruse (03:42.636) The people that control big pharma really are the bankers. It's a, it's a very big story. And when I mean big, complicated because it's a Leviathan to know where all the missing pieces and parts are, you know, it take a lot longer time than you have allocated to talk to me. But in the last, I would say six months in the United States, I have been doing a ton of podcasts. Why? Because people in the United States, unlike probably Australia, unlike Canada, unlike Europe, they're ready for this discussion about really what happened. And I think, you know, the people in the States voted that way on November 5th, that they were sick and tired of being lied to. And we didn't go down the path that, you know, Canada went, you guys went, Europe went, or even places like South America went. We decided that we're still for the freedom of speech. Stuart Cooke (04:16.12) Hmm. Dr Jack Kruse (04:42.456) And we're still fighting for the truth. We're not going to have digital IDs or we're saying right now that we're not going to have central bank digital coins. But I don't know if that's going to be true or not. I think there may be a path to that because the people that truly control the United States, which are the bankers and the industrial military complex, may have different designs because effectively, you know, what Trump and Bobby Kennedy are bringing to the table right now, really is the vaccine for Big Pharma. It's really the vaccine for the bankers. It's quite a lot to swallow. And like I said, one of my good friends in this story, Kevin McKiernan, who's the person that found SV40 in the jabs, said it's kind of like expecting Trunk and Bobby to go into the Death Star and somehow make Darth Vader nice. I don't know if that's really possible. But I certainly think that it's worth an opportunity to do it. I think other places in the world have actually got collateral effects from COVID. And that's actually what the people who were doing this, the Agenda 201 people, the WEF people, I know there's a lot of people in Australia that are now really fighting hard against this. But you guys already got digital ID. You guys are. are headed towards a CBDC. you know, basically they're interested in making us economic slaves on the plantation. And it's kind of the way in which they've done it is, I'm going to tell you, it's brilliant. It's a brilliant plan. It's been crafted over 120 years and they've done small little changes, insidious changes that you're like, come on, this isn't that bad. But when you add the whole collection up, you know, it's not a good situation. And they've used medical tyranny to pull it off. They've also used financialization, you know, through rehypothecation of money. That's actually the base problem for every country, including my own. And it's actually the base problem that was here in El Salvador. But El Salvador was the one country who started to reverse this trend because during their civil war, Dr Jack Kruse (07:09.292) that the United States CIA effectively started, you know, 30 years ago, they lost their fiat currency called the Cologne and they started to use, you know, U.S. dollars as their economy. So they're completely, you know, dollarized and that creates, you know, a huge problem. when Bukele got in and broke the cycle of corruption that was down here, the first thing he did was, I'm going to give my people a parallel monetary system. that's not tied to the Federal Reserve. And I don't think people like all over the world realize how big a thing that was. And believe it or not, that's actually what got me to come to El Salvador because I realized that this type of maneuver was like what George Washington did for the United States where was, but Kelly was like George Washington on steroids. Why? Most people don't know the history. of the United States well enough, especially you guys, since you're a commonwealth. Thomas Jefferson and James Madison wrote in Federalist Papers before our founding documents were done. They actually had fights with each other and a guy named Alexander Hamilton, which you probably heard. And Jefferson was ardent that the biggest problem with the Bank of England was that their level of usury. and also the way the bank handled business. And he said that no government will ever be successful if you allow the bankers to have this level of control. And Alexander Hamilton took the other side and said, well, that's all well and good, but if you're to create a country like we're trying to do here in the United States, you still have to have a monetary system. right now, going back to the Magna Carta, the Britons have done a pretty good job for about 1,000 years. Why don't we just roll with that until something comes up? And we didn't have a better form of money, you know, at that time. But the funniest part of the story is when Jefferson becomes president after George Washington, his vice president, Aaron Burr, kills Alexander Hamilton in a duel. Like this problem has not gone away in the United States. And I would say to you, it went all the way up into the Bitcoin Nashville event in Dr Jack Kruse (09:29.816) You know, July this year, when you had both Trump and Bobby, when they were both running for president, both of them said that they were about making Bitcoin a reserve currency to back the US dollar, you know, to make it affect how it used to be prior to 1971 when it was backed up by gold. And that's a good step. You know, for me as a Bitcoin maximus, it's not what I want to see. But is that a really positive step? you know, for the United States, yes. If it's a positive stuff for the United States, when we do something, everybody else usually follows. The interesting part is, I don't think Britain is gonna be doing that now because what did they do in their election? They voted for a version of Kamala Harris with a penis. That's called pure scarmor. And generally what the UK does, that's what Canada does, that's what Australia does. And a lot of times the same thing is true with Europe. But this is the first time I can tell you, think, maybe since World War I, when the United States and Britain have gone two different paths. Trump is radically different than King Charles. And in a good way, King Charles is trying to bring the UK and the Commonwealth back to the Dark Ages, medievalism, feudalism, you know, some, I think you guys call it Fabianism, because it's a version of you know, communism, but that's good for a monarchy. And, you know, I'm perfectly fine if the people of Australia, Canada, and the UK are cool with that because, you let's face it, you guys lived with it for a really long time. But that version of bullshit doesn't follow in the United States. Remember, we are the misfits that told the king to kiss our ass in 1774. So I can tell you that I am the latest iteration of that asshole. in 2024 because I don't want any part of what England's doing. I don't want any part of what Australia is doing. I don't want any part of what Canada is doing. I like our founding documents. And this was the case that I made to Bukele in his basement. I actually had to teach him the story that Jefferson went through with a guy named Benjamin Rush. The only remnants that you'll ever hear about Benjamin Rush from anybody else, he was a Dr Jack Kruse (11:57.706) a doctor and a politician who is originally British. You know, he was born in the States, but he had lots of ties to England because remember, we're effectively British just like you guys are in the States. And what Benjamin said that we needed to put a constitutional amendment in our founding documents and the founding fathers who are writing these papers, they went back for 5,000 years and couldn't find anything in human history where Medical Tierney was the attack vector to take a government down and apart. And Jefferson told him, he says, look, I think it's a good idea, but I just don't think that we can do this and do it well because it's going to slow our process down. And there was a lot of different things that went back and forth if you read the Federalist Papers. But I told Bukele the story, and that's when Bukele said to me, so you think that's the best plan of attack? I said, yeah, it is. Because if you try to use lawfare, like having lawyers go after Pfizer, Moderna, AstraZeneca. That's gonna be a giant shit show, especially in the United States. And the reason why is most people don't know this, and I know you guys are just waking up to this, but who is the distributor of the jab? It's the Department of Defense in the United States government. It wasn't Big Pharma. Big Pharma acted like the local street dealers that sell cocaine on the streets. The guy who is the big cartel in Columbia selling the jab is the Department of Defense. This came directly from a bio weapons program that I laid out on some of the podcasts that I had told you about earlier. The specific one is the Danny Jones podcast where I really let it all hang out. And when you find out that the original SV-40 problem showed up in 1951 through 1957 in the polio jabs by Salk, And now we have proof positive that they're present in the jab. 75 years later, you gotta ask yourself a question unless you're completely brain dead. How does, how does SV 40 wind up in the first generation of the polio vaccine and now in these brand new, supposedly cutting edge vaccines? Well, the reason why is because the program isn't what it was designed to be. It was a bio weapon that they decided to use at Dr Jack Kruse (14:24.704) a specific time to actually try to slow Trump down and get him out of office. And it was successful. And in the United States, the real big issue that happened was not only did they get Trump out, they were trying to manufacture, you know, falsified election. That's what January 6th, you know, 2020 was all about. Everybody thought that these people were trying to overthrow the government, but it was actually the opposite. The government certified a falsified election. And we now know that. If I would have told you that three or four years ago, I probably would have the FBI and CIA knocking on my door. But now we now know that things were falsified in Arizona. We know that they were falsified in Pennsylvania. We know that it were falsified here and there. But it's four years later. You can't change history once the government certifies the election on January 6th. They try to pin this insurrection on Trump, which was an absolute joke, but believe it or not, they've thrown a lot of Americans in jail over this issue. Like I know you guys in Australia, Europe, and Canada, you guys actually really bought the story hook, line, and sinker that these people were truly crazy and they were trying to overthrow their government. They were let in by the government. This was a government PsyOps. And it fits now with the narrative that we see with the aftermarket data for the four years of COVID. We are the people for the rest of the world now overturning and putting Windex on all your glass eyes just how bad this really was. So I told people early on, this is before the jabs even were coming out, I looked at the patents of Moderna and Pfizer and I noticed something very interesting, that there was two legal definitions in the Pfizer patent, one for BioNTech and another one for Pfizer. And I just looked at it and I said, this doesn't make sense to me. My initial gut feeling was that they were going to present one to the FDA and then they were going to use one that they were going to mass produce. So that way the FDA wouldn't have all the true data. And since vaccines are protected in this 1986 law, that's horrible that we have, they could unleash this as a giant experiment. Dr Jack Kruse (16:47.5) to get the jab out. I told people, I did a documentary with Robert Malone and Robert McCullough, who are two doctors here in the States that you probably have heard of. And that had to be behind a paywall because you can imagine at that time, the things that we were saying were pretty controversial. Now I was the least controversial person in the movie. Why? Because I didn't really talk too much about medicine. I talked about these two legal definitions at length. And why was I doing that? Because I knew the story in detail more than anybody knew that I knew. Now people know it because I unleashed that story on the Danny Jones podcast. And I felt that they were going to put SV40 in one of the jabs. Why? Because their development team at Pfizer wasn't as advanced as Moderna. Moderna was using an E. coli vector, which I could see in the patents. made sense to me. you know what they were doing. I still thought it was a bad idea because it didn't have any proper safety testing. But I didn't have as big a problem with Moderna as I did with the Pfizer thing. And that's what I said in the documentary. So here we go till 2022 and all of a sudden, this guy, Kevin McKiernan, for those of you in Australia who don't know him, you need to know him. In fact, he just came out on the Danny Jones podcast because I hooked him up with Danny Jones to get his end of the story down because the aftermarket data we have now is even more devastating, probably even more devastating than you know in Australia because something just got published that he did, which we'll talk a little bit about. Kevin got two vials of Pfizer jabs from two lots, tested them in 2022 and found out that the SV40 promoter was in it. He published that information on Twitter. And of course you can only imagine what happened on Twitter at that time. everything exploded, everybody that was on the opposite side, the Biden and Kamala Harris side, the Operation Warp Speed people, the big pharma, they're like, this guy's full of shit, we don't believe him. It got so bad that one of the molecular virologists who is part of the evil empire, or the dark star as we talked about before, he said, I'm gonna prove him wrong, I'm gonna do the test myself. His name's Philip Buchholz, he's at the University of South Carolina, very accomplished. Dr Jack Kruse (19:16.856) virologist who works and has lots of grants with the federal government. Lo and behold, guess what he found? He didn't prove Kevin wrong, he proved Kevin right. And to his credit, to his credit, I have to give him a lot of credit here, he immediately went to the state Senate in South Carolina and actually told the senators that this is a huge problem. Why? Because now we have to start to question other things that potentially could be going on. Because at that time, The initial pulse in the aftermarket data is that I think everybody everywhere in the world knew about the myocarditis story. We knew about the clotting story, but we had just started to see there were several people with several locks that were getting cancers who had no history of cancer at all. And they were getting not minor cancers. These were stage three and stage four cancers in very young fit people. Remember, we were all told the lie that all the fatties were going to die. And it turned out that also was a lie early on. The fatties weren't the ones dying even in the hospital. The people who are dying are the people who getting Tony Fauci's drugs and the people who got intubated. It actually was the hospital algorithmic medicine treatment, you know, that the people in big tech and what we call HARPA, which is a version of DARPA, those are the people that are Silicon Valley connected healthcare folks. came up with these algorithms to treat people with and it became obvious something was going on. So you remember when we started this podcast, I told you I was effectively retired. And when I started hearing all this story, you can only imagine Uncle Jack said, I'm going to check into this bullshit big time. So what did I do? I go back and start volunteering to do a week of trauma call and I'm spending time in the ERs and spending time in the ICUs because that's what neurosurgeons do. So I got to see the sickest of the sick. Stuart Cooke (20:55.641) Mm. Dr Jack Kruse (21:15.352) And lo and behold, what did I find over two years between actually two and a half years, 2021 through 2024? I was averaging 13 clots and at least eight to 10 cancers in a week that would show up in the hospital. And most of those were in vaccinated people. The most amazing part of my observations is that there was no unvaccinated people. that were afflicted by these problems. Like people who just had regular COVID, this truly was like the cold or the flu. And these people never sought care in the ICUs. They came to the ERs, but the ERs would send them out. They wouldn't do anything with them. The people that got admitted, they got put on these algorithms that the hospitals did. And it turned out the hospitals were incentivized by CMS is the government version of healthcare that pays for things and the government would pay for things that they wanted done. They wouldn't pay for the things that shouldn't get done. That's where you heard nobody would let us use hydroxychloroquine, ivermectin. They wouldn't let us use methylene blue. They wouldn't let us use vitamin D. And it turned out all those things for the people that were in the ER that went home, they did really well. In fact, that's actually what Bukele found. Bukele found within two months of doing the jobs, they started to notice a problem. So what did he do? Even through his own Twitter feed, started telling people, we're going to give you little bags of goodies in it that had a lot of these off-label medications. And they didn't have a huge problem. It turned out the people that got admitted and wound up having to go into the ICU who were getting drugs they shouldn't have gotten and got intubated, those are the people that died. And the story continued to get worse. Why? Because we started to see the pulse of the serious stuff, meaning these turbo cancers, the spike in the data went straight up. And for you guys in Australia who don't know this, there's a guy on Twitter that you should follow. His name is the Ethical Skeptic, at Ethical Skeptic. And he is a former Navy intelligence officer in the United States. What did he start doing? Dr Jack Kruse (23:40.856) He's good with numbers. So he started to post many different things and to show how the CDC, the FDA, and everybody was lying through these numbers. And when I saw this, plus I had my observations of being in the hospital, that's part of the reason when Bukele tapped me in 2023 to write this law. I said, you can't fix this problem in the United States with lawfare. And that's when I found out that El Salvador had assigned these special agreements with the drug manufacturers because guess what? El Salvador doesn't have a 1996 vaccine protection law. Turns out Australia doesn't either. Neither does Europe. Neither does Canada. So guess what? This should tell all of you in those countries that the politicians who were in charge at that time, they signed those documents with them. That means they're all technically a path, a legal path in your country to actually go after them soon. But this is only if the politicians aren't crooked. And it turns out in Australia, we found out they're as crooked as all get out. know, the chick that was in charge of New South Wales, she was being paid off by Fisler. We know that. So, and we also know how serious the lockdown effect was, you know, in Canada and Australia. I think you guys probably had it way worse than we did because remember, as Americans, we didn't put up with too much. And I can tell you what I did. I closed my clinic in Louisiana and moved to Florida where DeSantis was. It was business as usual. I was on the beach the whole time, you know, during COVID. And we didn't give a shit. We actually laughed at you guys. And here I was getting on planes and going to states where the COVID situation was bad. And I was actually able to go see what was happening in different areas. And of course, then I started talking to other doctors in the United States to see what their experience was. And what I found out is the zip code of where people were linked to the ideology and the politics of a specific policy. And it was much worse when you were around people who were, how shall we say, left-wing progressives, where they were taking freedom away much faster, kind of like King Charles. Dr Jack Kruse (26:02.316) you know, has advocated through his, you know, good friendship with Klaus Schott. Like, you know, his famous saying is, you'll own nothing but yet be happy about it kind of stance. You know, that's kind of what the Mararkey was all about for a long period of time. And I noticed that the states that had politicians that are in power like that had the worst outcomes. And it turned out places that should have been bad, like for example, One of the things that I did very early is I started to look at data in Africa. Nobody in Africa was getting any problems from this, even though the vaccines were given to them just about for free. But nobody took them because nobody got sick. And it turned out the ethical skeptic started showing that there was a lot of people in Equatorial Africa that were already immune to the virus. Why? Because that was proof positive the virus had gotten out earlier than anybody said. That's when I realized that we were in a giant PsyOps. This was a bioweapons program gone wrong through a lab leak in Wuhan. And we knew the link in the States because we know the story of Fauci. We know why he had to go offshore because of 9-11, because of the Patriot Act. The Patriot Act has a provision in it that we're not allowed to do gain-of-function study in the United States. If you do, it's punishable by treason. So why did the Department of Defense decide to give Anthony Fauci a 67 % raise a long time ago? Because he moved the bioweapons lab to both Wuhan and the Ukraine. Maybe that'll tell you why we have a Ukraine war going on as well, because we're protecting something that we don't want anybody else to know about. And all of this stuff starts to come free through Freedom of Information Acts. And we start to find out that his links are to this cat in a place called EcoHealth Alliance. That's the guy that basically creates all the gain and function studies that get shipped over to the bioweapons lab. Then all of a sudden the story makes sense. The aftermarket data continues in 23 and 24. And it's very clear now when you look at it that we have huge problems not only with clotting and that's with certain jabs. Like all the jabs have different Dr Jack Kruse (28:26.55) diseases associated with them. And we now know through Kevin McKiernan's work, because he's kept on this, when the turbo cancer data came up, he went to Germany and found someone who got four injections, four jabs, patient got colon cancer, the patient decided to have a biopsy done. Kevin was able to sequence the first tumor, then he did another biopsy a week later. and then he did a postmortem biopsy. And what he was looking for was the sequence in the spike protein, the sequence in the cancer, was there intercalation of the plasmid from, you know, Pfizer in the tumor itself? In other words, are you a GMO person if you took this jab? And it turned out without a doubt you are. So that proved what Philip Buchholz was really concerned about when he went to talk to the centers in South Carolina. because frame shift mutations are one cause of cancer. But the other big one is could these little plasmids that are in these jabs also show up? This made Kevin go look further. And then he found out that every single jab you get, there's 60 billion copies of DNA plasmids in each one. That's common to all the messenger RNA. See, SV40 is only in the Pfizer one. But it turns out, is there another nuclear bomb? with the other Jabs and it is, it's that there's DNA plasmids all in there. How did many of the manufacturers hide the level of plasmids in there? They made sure that they put aluminum in their Jabs. Why? Because it turns out aluminum, they'll tell you it's an adjuvant, but it's really an agglutination effect that decreases the number of plasmids so you can get it through, you know, a regulator, which in our country is the FDA and I know in your country has a different name. And I know they're under fire right now too. for some of the stuff that's going on in Australia. But this is how it went down. And this is exactly how they got the Gardasil vaccine approved in the United States as well. It was through this aluminum effect. So the question immediately came up, you know, for guys like me and Kevin, who started to communicate and also communicate with the ethical skeptic and many other researchers in the world. We're talking about Jay Badachari, Martin Kulldorf. We've all started chatting. Dr Jack Kruse (30:52.652) you know, and had our private conversations because we put this together better than the FDA, CDC, and the people in Washington, DC. We figured out the scam very, very quickly. And we started to say, these are the things that we need to start testing and looking for. We now know that in the spike protein of these German cancer patients who had colon cancer, there's sequences in there. that are not attributable to the Pfizer vaccine. So you know what that means? It means one of two things. That means this came from somewhere else, another vector, like it's out there running around, or it came from the people who manufactured the vaccine in there, meaning that this can go through jump conduction. That's a really big problem because that means that now we have a new problem to worry about. This is the latest data I'm bringing to you. It's only two weeks old. Okay, no one's talking about this. Like in the gain of function world, nobody knows what I'm telling you right now. I know nobody in Australia knows this. I imagine when you put this out, people's heads are gonna explode. But I can tell you that Kevin McKiernan just talked about this live on Danny Jones, which is the reason why I told Danny Jones to get Kevin on. podcast because this is information that you're never going to get from the Department of Defense. You're never going to get from the CDC. You're never going to get it from the FDA. Why? Because this directly exposes the fraud and the problems that were present. And not only that, this now takes this vaccine story to a true next level. This means people who took the jab, not only they potentially genetically modified humans, but they may be the source of many future pandemics down the road. And the diseases they get, this is the thing we don't know. This is the next level testing. We need to test every lot in every jab to see what the effect is because what we believe now is that people are gonna get. Dr Jack Kruse (33:16.562) certain diseases from different companies and different lots within those companies. So this is the reason why in the United States we see certain lots associated with turbo cancers. This is why we see certain lots associated with clotting. This is why we see certain lots associated with myocarditis. And this is the reason why we see people getting rhabdomyolysis. And we're starting to see another pulse now with people getting really nasty diseases. called prion diseases, those are diseases neurosurgeons deal with, that's diseases like Jakob-Kreutzfeld disease or amyloidosis, okay? And autoimmune conditions. And the autoimmune conditions have really spiked up. We're starting to see a lot of cases of very unusual type one diabetes in people who shouldn't have it. And we're also starting to see some very unusual. cases of neuroendocrine tumors and guts that normally we wouldn't see that are usually associated with people that have bad diabetes over a period of time. And we're also starting to see neurodegeneration happen at very rapid rates, meaning generally when someone gets diagnosed with a dementia, whether it's frontal temporal dysplasia, Alzheimer's, Parkinson's, any disease like that usually has a prodrome that takes, you know, a couple of decades to go. These people are getting going from like mild cognitive delay to serious neurodegeneration. Many of the stories that you you hear in Australia, Canada, Europe, where people call it long COVID, it doesn't stay long COVID forever. Certain people get it, certain people don't. Our belief right now has to do with the changes in the lots that are there. So that means we need to start testing every single lot that's out there. Do you think that that kind of issue is gonna happen in the United States where big pharma sits at the Cantillon effect? The answer is no. In fact, here's the real joke of the situation. Big pharma, those medicines haven't even withdrawn from the market here yet. At least, you know, the crown got rid of the AstraZeneca one. There was enough for NHS to say, okay, enough of this shit. Dr Jack Kruse (35:38.672) And Johnson & Johnson in the United States was really smart because they pulled their drug off the market themselves. I think they realized that this is a can of worms that nobody really wants to go through. And Johnson & Johnson has a very different vaccine than everybody else. They used an adenovector virus. They're not polluted with a lot of the same things that Pfizer and Moderna are. But Pfizer's risk right now, in my opinion, off the chain. I really think that while we may not be able to get them by lawfare in the United States, even by some of the things that Bobby Kennedy will probably do in HHS, because of the vaccine law, because of the Dole Buy Act, which you may not know about, but that allowed guys like Fauci to profit off of taxpayer funded research, that's actually the incentive that dictate the outcome why Fauci Stuart Cooke (36:15.822) Hmm. Dr Jack Kruse (36:37.794) you know, was so incentivized to work with gain-of-function people and move it offshore because he made a lot of money. And we now know about a year ago, we found out that he got $440 million in royalties through the NIH and CDC. That money was then redeployed to other scientists that supported his criminality. So you can see that this is a giant conspiracy and we have a law that actually Bobby Kennedy's father was important in writing. It's called the RICO statute. And when Bobby Kennedy Sr. was our attorney general when his brother was president before the government killed him, he's the one that came up with the RICO statute. It turns out, even with this 1986 law that's on the books in the states with the Bayh-Dole Act, there's no protection for these people from a RICO case. So guess what may happen? What may happen? And I think this is where Bobby's going to go in HHS. And this is the reason why I think he's going to have a really tough confirmation process in the United States, even though the Senate is now, you know, weighted to the Republicans. You have to realize in the United States, there's a uniparty problem, meaning the DNC and the RNC has a lot of people that are being paid off by Big Pharma, kind of like what I told you happened in New South Wales. And I'm sure there's many people. and many politicians in Australia, Canada, and Europe, who often has been paid off. We'll find out about this eventually, but that's not my current focus. My current focus really is what can we do to help these people that have been harmed by the vaccine? And that's really my focus, you know, in the future, because I'm the guy that understands the interplay between the nuclear genome and the mitochondrial genome. And that's what decentralized medicine really focuses in on. And you have to realize Stuart that the system that you have in Australia, the system they have in Canada and the system in the UK and in the United States is centralized, meaning that no one will ever get to the point that these people are going to need who've been harmed by this bio weapon. And while I would love to jump into the fray on the medical legal side of things, that's not Uncle Jack's expertise. My expertise is understanding how do we keep Dr Jack Kruse (39:04.098) the genetically modified people in the world, how do we silence that DNA? There's no way we're gonna be able to get it out of our DNA. Like a lot of people are gonna tell you you can detox from it. That is absolute pure insanity. That's the kind of thinking that comes from not understanding truly the science behind it. That's what Kevin McKiernan is really good at explaining. So my goal is to teach people the science that I've been developing over 20 years so we can help people. Now, do I think we're going to come up with new treatments down the road? Yes. So what would I like to maybe end this so you can ask me your next question? It's this is going to be much like the AIDS virus. When AIDS came out, it was a death sentence for everybody who got it. And then magically, slowly over time, We did come up with something called protease inhibitors that actually has now made, you know, AIDS almost a non-issue for most people. But the problem is we had 20 years, 25 years of people dying from it before we came up with the answer. I think that we have a duty as decentralized clinicians to help the people in that 25 year span that's gonna happen between now and then. So that really is my focus. And I think The focus that I brought to the table, at least in the United States, the last 12 months is I went from being apolitical to political. Why? Because I believe this story needs to get out. I believe people like you in Australia, the people in the UK and the people in Canada need to know the truth from the United States because guess what? We made you sick and you bought our bullshit story, hook line and sinker. So I believe that my government has a duty to all of you to tell you the truth. And since my government is not telling you the truth, I'm going to come on podcasts and I'm going to fucking light their house on fire. Stuart Cooke (41:08.482) Boy boy boy. So much to unpack and I think we'll get lots of people scrabbling for the show notes as well to cut and paste names into browsers and to follow this path a little bit further. I just want to share a little bit of a story that happened to me last night in as much as I have had internet problems at home and I'm looking for a new internet service provider and I actually signed up with the same one again but for a faster plan and I had to go through and enter credit card details and give them all of my details. And right at the very end of the conversation with the agent on the phone, she said, I'm gonna send you a link and this link will be for you just to finalise your digital ID. And I said, I'm not sure what you mean. I was expecting to give you my bank. my bank details and my personal details, et cetera. And she said, no, no, you need to take a picture of yourself on your mobile phone. You need to scan some documents, your driver's license, your Medicare number, and that will play a part of your digital ID. And I said, well, no, I'm not very comfortable with that. I don't want to do it. So I think I'll just end. I'll end this. Don't worry about that at all. And she rushed off and went to her manager and came back and said, Well, you don't actually have to give us your digital ID right now. You can go into the store afterwards. And I said, well, I don't want to go into the store afterwards. I'm not very comfortable with me giving you my details and building up a digital profile. I'm not going to do that. Does that mean I won't be able to access the service? And she said, no, no. You will be able to access the service. Perhaps you can do it in the future if you like. So hence, I have my new internet plan, at least I will do at the end of the week. I don't have a digital ID. But that's just an example of a curveball that's thrown out perhaps to me as an unsuspecting and law-abiding citizen as part of the plan that I'm sure will develop into something much bigger down the line. So my question to you is that if we've been following the advice of the government and all the powers that be, and we're guided to what we put in our mouths, which typically will be... Stuart Cooke (43:15.713) a low-fat diet, lots of healthy whole grains. We go out into the sunshine. We're taught in Australia to slip, slap, slop, so hatch, sunscreen, avoid the sun at all costs. And now we seem to be in a little bit of a mess where we are getting sicker, we're getting fatter, children have diabetes, obesity, every autoimmune condition. Dr Jack Kruse (43:38.456) You also have the highest skin cancer rate in the world, just so you know that. No, it's not bizarre to me. It makes total sense to me. It's bizarre to you guys. Turns out the sun doesn't give you cancer. It's all the artificial light around you that does. Stuart Cooke (43:42.357) It's bizarre, isn't it? Stuart Cooke (43:49.72) But what if... Stuart Cooke (43:54.446) Well, I'm a British citizen, so I've lived for 21 years of my life under doom and gloom. So there was no sun. You may get a week in the summer, of which we called our heat wave. But now living in Australia, And I've been in this health and wellness sphere for best part of a decade and a half, doing the complete opposite of what I've been told, in terms of what I'm eating and how I'm exposing myself to the sun. I'm drawn to it like a magnet every day and we get plenty of it. No burns, nothing of any of that sort. I've managed to dodge the medical system for best part of 25 years. I've only been into the doctors to get tests that I've wanted to, bloods and things like that. So my question to you is, It seems almost impossible for Joe Public to be able to even conceptualise doing the right thing because they think they're doing the right thing, because they're following all the roles that we are told that the science and the doctors and the powers that they tell us to do. So where do we go? Dr Jack Kruse (44:58.25) everything they say you do the opposite. If you go and look at my Twitter, what does it say in the little circle? Do not comply. And I got news for you. Every, I famously said this to Rick Rubin and Andrew Uberman on a Tetragrammaton podcast that 99.9 % of things that I learned in medical school and residency are pretty much wrong. And there's a lot of reasons why they're wrong. Stuart Cooke (45:00.279) Yeah. Yeah. Stuart Cooke (45:06.202) Yeah. Stuart Cooke (45:15.673) Hmm. Dr Jack Kruse (45:28.002) But you have to realize that incentives dictate outcomes. The reason why you're told to do many of these things, like I've said this in the United States, I haven't said it too much in Australia, but I'll say it to you. Ask yourself this question, why do Bill Gates, ophthalmologist and dermatologist all want to block the sun? Because it's a great business model for them to be profitable. That's exactly the answer. And it turns out if you are not a dumbass Australian, Stuart Cooke (45:51.416) Yeah. Dr Jack Kruse (45:56.554) and you go out to the bush and you see, you know, the kangaroos running around and you see the birds out there. Notice they don't have sunglasses and sunscreen on, right? They go under a tree. mean, the kangaroos really smart. They actually lick their arms to cool themselves off. But they don't, they don't run away from the sun. And the interesting thing is even when you're under a tree, you still have all the light around you. problem is most people in Australia now they go inside under these fake lights and you don't realize it turns out there's no light controls in any of the dermatologist studies. Like for example, when a dermatologist tells you that UV light causes cancer, you're actually allowed to believe that. You know why? You have a duty that the doctor didn't tell you that the study was done with UV light by itself. Let me ask you this question. Does UV light ever show up from the sun by itself? Or does it have six other colors with it? Turns out it's got six other colors. And you told me you're a British guy, so you know the whole famous story about Newton and the prism, right? He's the guy that created the Pink Floyd album cover so that everybody knows there's seven colors from the sun. Well, it turns out, if you take UV light by itself, yeah, that's a problem. That's what the dermatologists hitched their wagon to. But here's the thing. They didn't tell you that red light is the antidote to purple and to blue. Stuart Cooke (47:08.216) That's right. Dr Jack Kruse (47:22.488) And here's the funny part. Anytime the sun's up, anytime the sun sets, red light's always present. And guess what? It's the most dominant part of the solar spectrum, of terrestrial sunlight. 43 % is infrared A or near infrared light. So when you begin to realize that nature has got the antidote for you and you have a government or a doctor or Bill Gates telling you... No, no, no, we want to geoengineer our skies, want to geoengineer your eyes, and we want to geoengineer your skin. It shouldn't be shocking to you why they're telling you to do it. But I would fully agree with you. When I've been to Australia, I look at them and I think they are the dumbest asses in the world to not figure this out. Why? Because even in the dermatologist's literature that's published in Australia, it shows people that have all the skin cancers have the lowest vitamin D level. If they dermatologists are right, it should be exactly the opposite. People that have the highest vitamin D levels, because you can only make vitamin D from UVB light, right? You know that. They should be the ones that have all the skin cancer. And it turns out every single paper that looks at this shows the lower your vitamin D is, the worse your skin cancer is. How do you like that? So when you think about that and you're wearing sunglasses and slip slather and... Stuart Cooke (48:27.812) Mm-hmm. Stuart Cooke (48:41.262) Yeah. Dr Jack Kruse (48:45.91) all that other bullshit's on the side of your buses. It's no shock to me, actually the reason why you guys have that, but it's also the reason why you were very compliant with the government. Because guess what? What's the part of the story that no one in Australia has heard yet? It's what I talked to Danny Jones about. Turns out when you block the sun, you change the orbital frontal gyrus in your brain, dopamine levels drop, and you become more suggestible. That is a program that started back in the United States, but really started in Nazi Germany called MKUltra. Then MKUltra was graduated to the Stanford Research Institute. Then it was graduated to the Brain Health Initiative. In other words, this is how the bioweapons program in DARPA, part of the DOD that also made the jab, how this all links together. And when you begin to realize that these ideas that you have in Australian medicine actually link to why you guys all rolled up your sleeves and took the visor jab, then you begin to understand why Uncle Jack, know, 20, 25 years ago, everybody thought I was a crazy sob on the internet. I got news to you. It's amazing to me how less crazy I've gotten and how brilliant everybody thinks I am in the last four years because guess what? Just about everything I told people was coming, came and it happened. And right now, Uncle Jack's not just talking to Stuart. Cook on the internet. He's talking to Bukele. He's talking to Nicole Shanahan. He's talking to Bobby Kennedy. And he's talking to Donald Trump. I'm also talking to people in different states about taking this law and putting on the books. Why? Because through the lawfare that's happened with Big Pharma, we've created a big mess in the United States. And as I told you before about going into the Death Star in the Pentagon or Washington, DC, I don't believe that Trump and Bobby are going to be able to fix all the problems. Like, I know that most of you guys in the free world now are hoping that Trump and Bobby can do a lot so that that tsunami wave will come to Australia, come to UK, come to Europe and come to Canada to try to help you. I'm going to be, I'm probably going to be the bearer of bad news to you, my friend. I don't think that's going to happen. And I think Bobby is going to be hamstrung by Dr Jack Kruse (51:14.258) some of the powers that be that are linked to the bankers and Big Pharma. And we probably don't have a long enough podcast for me to explain how all these things link, but I can promise you that Big Pharma was the reason why the First Amendment was destroyed in the United States. Why? Because the money that they were able to use, were, Obama changed the law in the United States. It used to be against the law to actually have Big Pharma ads on TV. He changed that. It's called the month act and it was changed I believe in 2008. Soon as they were able to do that, what did that do? Pharma started paying for all the ads on news media and that means the news media was incentivized to tell the propaganda story of Big Pharma on there. And if they didn't, they would just defund them and not pay him. So it turns out all the news anchors and everybody on those places, they all became shills for Big Pharma. In other words, they were just like the drug dealers on the street for the Colombian drug cartel. That's exactly what happened. And this slowly happened from 2008 to 2024. So now when you put on like Fox News or ABC or NBC in United States, all you see is stuff for this drug, that drug, the other drug, you don't see like, you know, advertisements for kiddie food, because kiddie food can't pay their salaries. Okay. But Big Pharma can. And this is why I don't think you guys, you know, across the pond. Stuart Cooke (52:34.593) You Dr Jack Kruse (52:42.124) really understood how important Elon Musk was for the political process in the United States. Why? Because when he bought Twitter from Jack Dorsey, that actually, remember the first thing he did, he got rid of advertising, right? The advertisers all boycotted him. That was the biggest mistake ever because then Twitter or X, however you want to call it, became truly the town square in the United States. That's where people who were canceled under the previous regime, actually got a voice back. And unfortunately, I've told people this and I don't think you know this and probably the people in Australia do. I was one of the few doctors that weren't canceled on Twitter. Why? Because Jack Dorsey was one of my friends and one of my patients. He followed all of my stiff. Why? Because he was a big technologist. You know that he owned Twitter from the beginning and he got sick from his own tech and he came to me to get better. This is the reason why he lives now in a place with a lot of sun. and he does many of the things that Stuart, you do, and you understand the reason why, but what most of you don't understand in Australia and I think UK and Canada, and this is important for you here, this is gonna be a tough swallow for you. If you go look at the last Jason Bourne movie that was made in 2016, do you know why that Hollywood, the Harvey Weinstein and his friends made that movie? That was a direct threat. to Jack Dorsey and Mark Zuckerberg, either you're gonna play ball with us or we're gonna kill you. So guess what? Go look at the storyline. I'm telling you, I knew that. And how can I tell you that I knew? At the Bitcoin Miami event in 2021, Dorsey came to meet with some of my VIPs and told us then that he was gonna sell Twitter. Why? Because at that time he was getting called up in front of Congress all the time and they were talking about section 230 and all this and that. And he said, look, I'm done playing ball with these assholes. you look at just what happened in the United States, did you hear Jack Dorsey say anything about Kamala or Trump? No, he was totally out the mix. He washed his hands of all that. But guess what? Elon Musk knew everything directly from Dorsey. See, many people think Jack's a bad dude. He wasn't a bad dude. Remember, he's 100 % Bitcoin maxi. He's just like what I told you about Boo Kelly in the beginning of this. Dr Jack Kruse (55:07.532) He believes in freedom of money and he realized that Twitter was a bad experiment gone wrong because his board was filled with all those assholes from Silicon Valley that I told you were behind the jab. Those were all the bankers that were tied to this. Like A16Z, these guys are the worst of America. Like we create really amazing products, but you have to realize there's a dystopian side of this side of business. Stuart Cooke (55:20.185) Hmm. Dr Jack Kruse (55:37.66) And this was really why I give Elon a lot of credit, because there's a lot of things about Elon I don't like. I don't like Neuralink. I don't like Starlink. I don't like being controlled from above, because I think DARPA is going to use that technology to do that to all of us eventually. They just haven't got to that point in the game yet. But what Elon did is he gave Americans that had different ideas the opportunity to speak. And I can tell you that's the reason why the election went the way it went. I got news for you guys in Australia think that this was a landslide. I think it was even bigger than that. Why? Because we know that the Democrats did a ton of cheating and even with their cheating they couldn't overcome this because guess what? Americans are truly fed up with what went on. Like you guys think you're a little bit mad? Dude, you have no idea how pissed off. people are here because we understand the scale. And most people are waking up to the stuff that I shared with you here about SV40 and the DNA plasmids and the 60 billion per shot. Dude, that's not even why Trump really won. He won because of all the shit with inflation, the open borders, and the global socialism that the people who are behind the jab, the people in the Department of Defense, they're all in cahoots with each other. That's the stuff that you're dealing with right now with the world economic forum and the people that are in charge in Australia. All of these people got their marching orders from King Charles. Remember, King Charles has been, when he was the prince, he was up Klaus Schwab's ass from almost 50 years ago. And who was their best friend in the United States? Henry Kissinger. He's another guy that's tied to the Council of Foreign Relations. How far does this go back? mean, look, you're a UK guy. You remember the whole story about the Pilgrim Society and the Rhodes Scholars. This all was stuff that came out after Queen Victoria died and the new monarch came in, which was King George, who was Queen Elizabeth's grandfather. His brother, you know this story very well. His brother, Edward VIII, abdicated because everybody wanted to talk about Wallace Simpson. No, he abdicated because the royal family Dr Jack Kruse (58:02.156) was part of propping up Hitler with their bankers, the Rothschilds. And we now know that. It's very obvious. And that's the reason why the king really had to step down. It got so bad in World War I that the king had to change their name from Saxe, Coburn, Gotha to Windsor. They took it off a castle. Wasn't even, you know, didn't even think about it good. And why did they do that? They had to do that because one of the guys from Russia, who took over their land, shot and killed the Romanovs, which was the cousin of the king in England, also the cousin of Wilhelm in Germany. Well, they didn't plan on that. They didn't plan on killing him. But we now know that the Rothschild bankers at the time were the ones with the king that wanted the Romanovs put in jail in Siberia. Why? Because people always forget this. This Bolshevik revolution happens in the middle of World War I. It's the craziest thing ever that you can have a revolution in a royal family and they were worried. But it turned out one of the guys of the three in Russia, that's Trotsky. Trotsky is the one that made the decision to kill the Romanovs. Guess what? Lenin and Stalin didn't want that to happen. They knew that that was going to create a huge problem down the road. When you think about this as a Briton now, now I'm talking to you as a Brit and not as an Australian. Remember what the British Empire is all about. They're all about that imperialism and you are part of the Commonwealth. Well, in one stroke, you lost Russia. You lost the United States in 1774. So what was really World War II all about? It was about setting up a bad deal for the Germans in the Treaty of Versailles so you can guarantee a second world war. That's really what happens. Why? Because the king wanted to bring the United States and Russia back into a war so they could regain a loyal title. And let me just tell you something. There's one thing you're going to learn about the royal family from this midfit who came from you in England, is that the royal family and their bankers Dr Jack Kruse (01:00:23.82) have screwed up the 20th and 21st century more than you can ever imagine. Most of the things that we're all dealing with now are because they want to recapture the lands that they lost and bring them back under British rule. And it turns out the one thing they've done, they've infiltrated a lot of the United States government with people who are still loyal. That's what the Council of Foreign Relations is. And who is the main group in the United States that the Royal Family and the Rothschilds partner with. It's the Rockefellers. Rockefellers were richer than the Rothschilds and the Royal Family. So guess what? They brought them in. And then, magically, we got the Council of Foreign Relations. They're tied to Tavistock. They're tied to the Committee of 300. You got this whole story. And then, magically, we get the Federal Reserve, which is basically all of the families that were in Europe, now the big ones in the United States, who are also all ex-Britain. Now they're all in bed together and go, hey, let's start this process in the United States to see if we can get back to the Middle Ages where everybody's on a feudal plantation and they're working for us and they're happy about it. That's just the marketing slogan that changed from the 1920s to 1973 and 71 when Kissinger and Schwab start the world economic forum. The process for the last 50 years, slow incremental changes to get us back. to the one world government idea. That's all the stuff that we're talking about, all the health stuff, all the COVID stuff. That is the true metastatic cancer that sits at the base of this shit sandwich. Stuart Cooke (01:02:13.032) I think you're like the modern day magnum PI on steroids. What is it we don't know? Dr Jack Kruse (01:02:18.956) Well, just think, well, Stuart, this is what I will say to you, and hopefully this resonates with you and resonates with the audience. There's two type of people in the world, those that believe the government and then those that know the history. And it turns out when you know the history, you have to have one caveat. The victors write the history books, but it turns out the real history is still discoverable if you know what rocks to look under. And when Stuart Cooke (01:02:46.328) Yeah. Dr Jack Kruse (01:02:48.286) I started this whole process because people have asked me, how did you figure a lot of this stuff out? Well, it turned out my mentor in this whole thing, which is Robert O. Becker, who's a doctor in the United States who was canceled by the Industrial Military Complex over the effect of non-native EMF. Turned out when I saw how he was canceled, it was tied to the same story. And when he got canceled in 1977, I met with him in 2007. He had 30 years to figure out who really did him wrong. And let me tell you something, if you think Uncle Jack is salty, you should have met this cat. He was truly pissed off. This guy was twice nominated for the Nobel Prize. So when I sat down with him and we shared notes, he casually warned me. He said, don't do anything crazy like I did and go on 60 minutes and try to tell the world the truth. because the world will never believe the truth because they're in a propaganda of lies. And those lies were set up by the architects that I just told you about, the bankers, Big Pharma, all the corporations, all the people that BlackRock own in the United States, those are all the people that you guys are affected by too. BlackRock affects Australia, UK, everybody else. And the idea of BlackRock... is you only have to have 5 % ownership in a company. Everybody else has fractional ownership. So effectively, this is the same idea that the Rothschilds used in 1812 at the Battle of Waterloo when they took over the banking situation. You they had better information than anything else. You don't have to own a company 100 % or 51 % to control it. If you control the finances, you control the country. And that's actually what Thomas Jefferson warned. are people about in 1774. This is the reason why Thomas Jefferson was absolutely adamant that the Bank of England was filled with a bunch of criminals. And he was right. I mean, I hate to tell you this, but this problem has now persisted on for 250 years in United States. And I would love to tell you that we were smarter than the Britons, but we weren't. We use their system. And now the system is so broken. Dr Jack Kruse (01:05:09.622) and it's so slated to them, they're going, they think we're complete idiots. So they're trying to, you know, completely go back to the way it used to be. And that makes King Charles very happy. Makes the Rothschilds happy, makes the Rockefellers happy. Why? Because they're able to recapture everything. If they can get the United States, they believe they can eventually get Russia back. That should make you realize truly what's going on with NATO, the Ukraine and Putin right now. It completely gives you a different spin on things when you look at what's happened in European, you know, world history here lately. And I just want to be the guy to tell you that I think if you focus on the history here, you'll understand more of the biology and why decentralized medicine is really important for you to follow from this point forward. Like the story that you told me about the digital ID. I really appreciate it because it definitely ties into the story. I think every resident of the UK, every resident of Australia needs to follow your model. think what you said and that you weren't going to comply with this level of intrusion and surveillance is absolutely it. mean, look, we got a guy in the United States right now, Edward Snowden, who warned us about this and he's sitting in in Russia being protected. If you don't think that this story resonates with people in the United States, you're crazy. And look, you guys have a guy that just got out of jail for WikiLeaks. And you forget what WikiLeaks was about. It was about turning all the state's evidence through WikiLeaks of all these connections that I'm telling you about now. And the crazy thing is they treated D platform, right? Through the bank. They got rid of his bank accounts through the Bank of England and all the banks in Australia. Stuart Cooke (01:06:37.123) Yeah. Stuart Cooke (01:07:03.097) Hmm. Dr Jack Kruse (01:07:06.808) So what did he do to continue to do it? He used Bitcoin. Bitcoin actually allowed us to realize that John Podesta, the Clintons, Jeffrey Epstein, all these people were all linked together. This is how a lot of this story started to come out, Stuart, so that the regular folk on the people in Main Street could start talking about it on Twitter. That people like Matt Taibbi, you know, dropped the Twitter files and everybody in the world was like, holy shit, Snowden was right. You know. Julian Assange was right. Like this is no more, this is not a mystery Stuart. You know what the mystery is? Is that people all over the world are too busy watching Netflix, rugby games, soccer games, and doing Circus Maximus. It's the same story that we were told in Plato's Allegory of the Cave, that even when the slave is shown the truth, they're like, I'm gonna go back in the cave, just put my cuffs back on and I'm good. Most of you probably won't like to hear, Stuart Cooke (01:08:02.956) Yeah Dr Jack Kruse (01:08:06.038) of just how much disdain I have for you. But that's the truth. I told the people the same thing in the United States before the election. I said, if you vote for Kamala Harris, you are the slave that's going back in the cave. And I'm not telling you that Trump's any prize package, but he's got less warts than the other person. And I think it's going to take a while for us to really get rid of this metastatic cancer. Organ by organ, we have to change it. But I'm hoping by doing a podcast like this with you, Stuart Cooke (01:08:17.401) Hmm. Stuart Cooke (01:08:23.501) Yeah. Dr Jack Kruse (01:08:36.29) that you can really understand how decentralized finance and decentralized health are linked together. This story is just like the medical caduceus that you look at. The two snakes are intertwined. And it's our job as the patient not to comply with fiat money, with bullshit CBDCs, when any kind of things are controlled, whether it's the internet company or your bank. Take all your money out of the bank. Don't leave it in the bank. And I would tell everybody, I think

In memoriam to the bad shows we found along the way, John talks about Gorillas way too much. Merch: https://www.etsy.com/shop/cryptopediamerch Discord: https://discord.gg/AWpen8aYQG Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/user?u=14015340 YouTube (Videos have [questionable] captions!): http://youtube.cryptopediacast.com/ --- Hunting Monsters: Cryptozoology and the Reality Behind the Myths , Naish, Darren  The Chauvet-Pont d'Arc cave Etymology of zoology by etymonline When the World's Population Took Off: The Springboard of the Neolithic Demographic Transition | Science The Internet Classics Archive | The History of Animals by Aristotle Galen's Analogy: Animal Experimentation and Anatomy in the Second Century CE Galen's “errors” - The Lancet Rocky Road: Conrad Gesner Historical Anatomies on the Web: Conrad Gessner Home Historiae Animalium | ODD SALON Zoology Timeline First Voyage of Captain James Cook | Smithsonian National Museum of Natural History The Nature of Systematics - Blackwelder and Boyden Abominable Science!: Origins of the Yeti, Nessie, and Other Famous Cryptids  A Carthaginian Exploration of the West African Coast. Gorilla Biology - Taylor and Goldsmith Les betes humaines d'Afrique by Heuvelmans, Bernard; [Mackal, Roy] - 1980 The Strange Adventures of Andrew Battell by Andrew Battell. Skeptoid: Tracking the Elusive Pongo The missionary and the gorilla | Features | Yale Alumni Magazine 1. From Satyr to Pongo: Discovering the Red Ape An account of the diseases, natural history, and medicines of the East Indies / Translated from the Latin of James Bontius  Notice External Characters Habits Troglodytes Gorilla - Savage and Wyman  The Metaphysics of Apes Explorations and adventures in Equatorial Africa  - Paul B. du Chaillu. Cryptozoology A To Z: The Encyclopedia of Loch Monsters, Sasquatch, Chupacabras, and Other Authentic Mysteries of Nature The Cryptid Zoo: Pongo Example of male orangutans displaying the two alternative reproductive Species Information - Orang Utan Republik Foundation Comparing Mountain Gorillas vs Eastern Lowland Gorillas — Gorilla Trekking Safaris Africa African mythology : an encyclopedia of myth and legend - Jan Knappert  Do Mythic Creatures Exist? Show Me the Body | Scientific American How many extant pinniped species remain to be described? Cuvier, Revolutionary Upheavals on the Surface of the Globe On the track of unknown animals : Heuvelmans, Bernard

The Starving Empire: A History of Famine in France's Colonies (Cornell University Press, 2023) by Dr. Yan Slobodkin traces the history of famine in the modern French Empire, showing that hunger is intensely local and sweepingly global, shaped by regional contexts and the transnational interplay of ideas and policies all at once. By integrating food crises in Algeria, West and Equatorial Africa, and Vietnam into a broader story of imperial and transnational care, Dr. Slobodkin reveals how the French colonial state and an emerging international community took increasing responsibility for subsistence, but ultimately failed to fulfill this responsibility. Europeans once dismissed colonial famines as acts of god, misfortunes of nature, and the inevitable consequences of backward races living in harsh environments. But as Dr. Slobodkin recounts, drawing on archival research from four continents, the twentieth century saw transformations in nutrition, scientific racism, and international humanitarianism that profoundly altered ideas of what colonialism could accomplish. A new confidence in the ability to mitigate hunger, coupled with new norms of moral responsibility, marked a turning point in the French Empire's relationship to colonial subjects—and to nature itself. Increasingly sophisticated understandings of famine as a technical problem subject to state control saddled France with untenable obligations. The Starving Empire not only illustrates how the painful history of colonial famine remains with us in our current understandings of public health, state sovereignty, and international aid, but also seeks to return food—this most basic of human needs—to its central place in the formation of modern political obligation and humanitarian ethics. This interview was conducted by Dr. Miranda Melcher whose forthcoming book focuses on post-conflict military integration, understanding treaty negotiation and implementation in civil war contexts, with qualitative analysis of the Angolan and Mozambican civil wars. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/new-books-network

The Starving Empire: A History of Famine in France's Colonies (Cornell University Press, 2023) by Dr. Yan Slobodkin traces the history of famine in the modern French Empire, showing that hunger is intensely local and sweepingly global, shaped by regional contexts and the transnational interplay of ideas and policies all at once. By integrating food crises in Algeria, West and Equatorial Africa, and Vietnam into a broader story of imperial and transnational care, Dr. Slobodkin reveals how the French colonial state and an emerging international community took increasing responsibility for subsistence, but ultimately failed to fulfill this responsibility. Europeans once dismissed colonial famines as acts of god, misfortunes of nature, and the inevitable consequences of backward races living in harsh environments. But as Dr. Slobodkin recounts, drawing on archival research from four continents, the twentieth century saw transformations in nutrition, scientific racism, and international humanitarianism that profoundly altered ideas of what colonialism could accomplish. A new confidence in the ability to mitigate hunger, coupled with new norms of moral responsibility, marked a turning point in the French Empire's relationship to colonial subjects—and to nature itself. Increasingly sophisticated understandings of famine as a technical problem subject to state control saddled France with untenable obligations. The Starving Empire not only illustrates how the painful history of colonial famine remains with us in our current understandings of public health, state sovereignty, and international aid, but also seeks to return food—this most basic of human needs—to its central place in the formation of modern political obligation and humanitarian ethics. This interview was conducted by Dr. Miranda Melcher whose forthcoming book focuses on post-conflict military integration, understanding treaty negotiation and implementation in civil war contexts, with qualitative analysis of the Angolan and Mozambican civil wars. Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/southeast-asian-studies

The Starving Empire: A History of Famine in France's Colonies (Cornell University Press, 2023) by Dr. Yan Slobodkin traces the history of famine in the modern French Empire, showing that hunger is intensely local and sweepingly global, shaped by regional contexts and the transnational interplay of ideas and policies all at once. By integrating food crises in Algeria, West and Equatorial Africa, and Vietnam into a broader story of imperial and transnational care, Dr. Slobodkin reveals how the French colonial state and an emerging international community took increasing responsibility for subsistence, but ultimately failed to fulfill this responsibility. Europeans once dismissed colonial famines as acts of god, misfortunes of nature, and the inevitable consequences of backward races living in harsh environments. But as Dr. Slobodkin recounts, drawing on archival research from four continents, the twentieth century saw transformations in nutrition, scientific racism, and international humanitarianism that profoundly altered ideas of what colonialism could accomplish. A new confidence in the ability to mitigate hunger, coupled with new norms of moral responsibility, marked a turning point in the French Empire's relationship to colonial subjects—and to nature itself. Increasingly sophisticated understandings of famine as a technical problem subject to state control saddled France with untenable obligations. The Starving Empire not only illustrates how the painful history of colonial famine remains with us in our current understandings of public health, state sovereignty, and international aid, but also seeks to return food—this most basic of human needs—to its central place in the formation of modern political obligation and humanitarian ethics. This interview was conducted by Dr. Miranda Melcher whose forthcoming book focuses on post-conflict military integration, understanding treaty negotiation and implementation in civil war contexts, with qualitative analysis of the Angolan and Mozambican civil wars. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/middle-eastern-studies

The Starving Empire: A History of Famine in France's Colonies (Cornell University Press, 2023) by Dr. Yan Slobodkin traces the history of famine in the modern French Empire, showing that hunger is intensely local and sweepingly global, shaped by regional contexts and the transnational interplay of ideas and policies all at once. By integrating food crises in Algeria, West and Equatorial Africa, and Vietnam into a broader story of imperial and transnational care, Dr. Slobodkin reveals how the French colonial state and an emerging international community took increasing responsibility for subsistence, but ultimately failed to fulfill this responsibility. Europeans once dismissed colonial famines as acts of god, misfortunes of nature, and the inevitable consequences of backward races living in harsh environments. But as Dr. Slobodkin recounts, drawing on archival research from four continents, the twentieth century saw transformations in nutrition, scientific racism, and international humanitarianism that profoundly altered ideas of what colonialism could accomplish. A new confidence in the ability to mitigate hunger, coupled with new norms of moral responsibility, marked a turning point in the French Empire's relationship to colonial subjects—and to nature itself. Increasingly sophisticated understandings of famine as a technical problem subject to state control saddled France with untenable obligations. The Starving Empire not only illustrates how the painful history of colonial famine remains with us in our current understandings of public health, state sovereignty, and international aid, but also seeks to return food—this most basic of human needs—to its central place in the formation of modern political obligation and humanitarian ethics. This interview was conducted by Dr. Miranda Melcher whose forthcoming book focuses on post-conflict military integration, understanding treaty negotiation and implementation in civil war contexts, with qualitative analysis of the Angolan and Mozambican civil wars. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/african-studies

The Starving Empire: A History of Famine in France's Colonies (Cornell University Press, 2023) by Dr. Yan Slobodkin traces the history of famine in the modern French Empire, showing that hunger is intensely local and sweepingly global, shaped by regional contexts and the transnational interplay of ideas and policies all at once. By integrating food crises in Algeria, West and Equatorial Africa, and Vietnam into a broader story of imperial and transnational care, Dr. Slobodkin reveals how the French colonial state and an emerging international community took increasing responsibility for subsistence, but ultimately failed to fulfill this responsibility. Europeans once dismissed colonial famines as acts of god, misfortunes of nature, and the inevitable consequences of backward races living in harsh environments. But as Dr. Slobodkin recounts, drawing on archival research from four continents, the twentieth century saw transformations in nutrition, scientific racism, and international humanitarianism that profoundly altered ideas of what colonialism could accomplish. A new confidence in the ability to mitigate hunger, coupled with new norms of moral responsibility, marked a turning point in the French Empire's relationship to colonial subjects—and to nature itself. Increasingly sophisticated understandings of famine as a technical problem subject to state control saddled France with untenable obligations. The Starving Empire not only illustrates how the painful history of colonial famine remains with us in our current understandings of public health, state sovereignty, and international aid, but also seeks to return food—this most basic of human needs—to its central place in the formation of modern political obligation and humanitarian ethics. This interview was conducted by Dr. Miranda Melcher whose forthcoming book focuses on post-conflict military integration, understanding treaty negotiation and implementation in civil war contexts, with qualitative analysis of the Angolan and Mozambican civil wars. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/environmental-studies

The Starving Empire: A History of Famine in France's Colonies (Cornell University Press, 2023) by Dr. Yan Slobodkin traces the history of famine in the modern French Empire, showing that hunger is intensely local and sweepingly global, shaped by regional contexts and the transnational interplay of ideas and policies all at once. By integrating food crises in Algeria, West and Equatorial Africa, and Vietnam into a broader story of imperial and transnational care, Dr. Slobodkin reveals how the French colonial state and an emerging international community took increasing responsibility for subsistence, but ultimately failed to fulfill this responsibility. Europeans once dismissed colonial famines as acts of god, misfortunes of nature, and the inevitable consequences of backward races living in harsh environments. But as Dr. Slobodkin recounts, drawing on archival research from four continents, the twentieth century saw transformations in nutrition, scientific racism, and international humanitarianism that profoundly altered ideas of what colonialism could accomplish. A new confidence in the ability to mitigate hunger, coupled with new norms of moral responsibility, marked a turning point in the French Empire's relationship to colonial subjects—and to nature itself. Increasingly sophisticated understandings of famine as a technical problem subject to state control saddled France with untenable obligations. The Starving Empire not only illustrates how the painful history of colonial famine remains with us in our current understandings of public health, state sovereignty, and international aid, but also seeks to return food—this most basic of human needs—to its central place in the formation of modern political obligation and humanitarian ethics. This interview was conducted by Dr. Miranda Melcher whose forthcoming book focuses on post-conflict military integration, understanding treaty negotiation and implementation in civil war contexts, with qualitative analysis of the Angolan and Mozambican civil wars. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/food

The Starving Empire: A History of Famine in France's Colonies (Cornell University Press, 2023) by Dr. Yan Slobodkin traces the history of famine in the modern French Empire, showing that hunger is intensely local and sweepingly global, shaped by regional contexts and the transnational interplay of ideas and policies all at once. By integrating food crises in Algeria, West and Equatorial Africa, and Vietnam into a broader story of imperial and transnational care, Dr. Slobodkin reveals how the French colonial state and an emerging international community took increasing responsibility for subsistence, but ultimately failed to fulfill this responsibility. Europeans once dismissed colonial famines as acts of god, misfortunes of nature, and the inevitable consequences of backward races living in harsh environments. But as Dr. Slobodkin recounts, drawing on archival research from four continents, the twentieth century saw transformations in nutrition, scientific racism, and international humanitarianism that profoundly altered ideas of what colonialism could accomplish. A new confidence in the ability to mitigate hunger, coupled with new norms of moral responsibility, marked a turning point in the French Empire's relationship to colonial subjects—and to nature itself. Increasingly sophisticated understandings of famine as a technical problem subject to state control saddled France with untenable obligations. The Starving Empire not only illustrates how the painful history of colonial famine remains with us in our current understandings of public health, state sovereignty, and international aid, but also seeks to return food—this most basic of human needs—to its central place in the formation of modern political obligation and humanitarian ethics. This interview was conducted by Dr. Miranda Melcher whose forthcoming book focuses on post-conflict military integration, understanding treaty negotiation and implementation in civil war contexts, with qualitative analysis of the Angolan and Mozambican civil wars. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/french-studies

The Starving Empire: A History of Famine in France's Colonies (Cornell University Press, 2023) by Dr. Yan Slobodkin traces the history of famine in the modern French Empire, showing that hunger is intensely local and sweepingly global, shaped by regional contexts and the transnational interplay of ideas and policies all at once. By integrating food crises in Algeria, West and Equatorial Africa, and Vietnam into a broader story of imperial and transnational care, Dr. Slobodkin reveals how the French colonial state and an emerging international community took increasing responsibility for subsistence, but ultimately failed to fulfill this responsibility. Europeans once dismissed colonial famines as acts of god, misfortunes of nature, and the inevitable consequences of backward races living in harsh environments. But as Dr. Slobodkin recounts, drawing on archival research from four continents, the twentieth century saw transformations in nutrition, scientific racism, and international humanitarianism that profoundly altered ideas of what colonialism could accomplish. A new confidence in the ability to mitigate hunger, coupled with new norms of moral responsibility, marked a turning point in the French Empire's relationship to colonial subjects—and to nature itself. Increasingly sophisticated understandings of famine as a technical problem subject to state control saddled France with untenable obligations. The Starving Empire not only illustrates how the painful history of colonial famine remains with us in our current understandings of public health, state sovereignty, and international aid, but also seeks to return food—this most basic of human needs—to its central place in the formation of modern political obligation and humanitarian ethics. This interview was conducted by Dr. Miranda Melcher whose forthcoming book focuses on post-conflict military integration, understanding treaty negotiation and implementation in civil war contexts, with qualitative analysis of the Angolan and Mozambican civil wars. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

J. P. Daughton's In the Forest of No Joy: The Congo-Océan Railroad and the Tragedy of French Colonialism (W. W. Norton, 2021) examines the complex and violent French construction of a line of railroad in Equatorial Africa from the coast inland. Begun in 1921, the Congo-Océan took 13 years to complete and resulted in the deaths of between 15,000 and 23,000 African lives. Daughton's book is a careful account of the brutality, harrowing labor conditions, and deprivation of these thousands of Africans whose very bodies were abused and destroyed in this iteration of the "civilizing mission" and "modernity" in empire. Working through a broad range of archives located in France, Switzerland, the U.S., and the Congo, the book's several chapters outline in visceral detail the individuals and structures involved in making the railroad a reality, from the forced enlistment of African labourers, through the challenges of resistant landscape, the suffering of those physically tasked with its conquest, to the justifying rhetoric of those who championed the  project and the denunciations of those who sought to reveal its atrocious human cost. Key individual architects, company, and government representatives appear throughout these pages along with the powerful forces and voices of the French imperial state. Working with and against the presentation of the project in official documents, Daughton seeks to illuminate the experiences and voices of the African workers who made the railroad a reality. Completed by the 1930s, the Congo-Océan was also a large-scale humanitarian failure. Interested in broader questions of colonial violence and how scholars engage with and respond to that violence, Daughton's narrative and analysis will be accessible to wide range of readers. This, despite the difficult and painful subjects and stories it takes on. Roxanne Panchasi is an Associate Professor of History at Simon Fraser University in Vancouver, Canada who specializes in twentieth and twenty-first century France and empire. She is the founding host of New Books in French Studies, a channel launched in 2013. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/new-books-network

J. P. Daughton's In the Forest of No Joy: The Congo-Océan Railroad and the Tragedy of French Colonialism (W. W. Norton, 2021) examines the complex and violent French construction of a line of railroad in Equatorial Africa from the coast inland. Begun in 1921, the Congo-Océan took 13 years to complete and resulted in the deaths of between 15,000 and 23,000 African lives. Daughton's book is a careful account of the brutality, harrowing labor conditions, and deprivation of these thousands of Africans whose very bodies were abused and destroyed in this iteration of the "civilizing mission" and "modernity" in empire. Working through a broad range of archives located in France, Switzerland, the U.S., and the Congo, the book's several chapters outline in visceral detail the individuals and structures involved in making the railroad a reality, from the forced enlistment of African labourers, through the challenges of resistant landscape, the suffering of those physically tasked with its conquest, to the justifying rhetoric of those who championed the  project and the denunciations of those who sought to reveal its atrocious human cost. Key individual architects, company, and government representatives appear throughout these pages along with the powerful forces and voices of the French imperial state. Working with and against the presentation of the project in official documents, Daughton seeks to illuminate the experiences and voices of the African workers who made the railroad a reality. Completed by the 1930s, the Congo-Océan was also a large-scale humanitarian failure. Interested in broader questions of colonial violence and how scholars engage with and respond to that violence, Daughton's narrative and analysis will be accessible to wide range of readers. This, despite the difficult and painful subjects and stories it takes on. Roxanne Panchasi is an Associate Professor of History at Simon Fraser University in Vancouver, Canada who specializes in twentieth and twenty-first century France and empire. She is the founding host of New Books in French Studies, a channel launched in 2013. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/history

J. P. Daughton's In the Forest of No Joy: The Congo-Océan Railroad and the Tragedy of French Colonialism (W. W. Norton, 2021) examines the complex and violent French construction of a line of railroad in Equatorial Africa from the coast inland. Begun in 1921, the Congo-Océan took 13 years to complete and resulted in the deaths of between 15,000 and 23,000 African lives. Daughton's book is a careful account of the brutality, harrowing labor conditions, and deprivation of these thousands of Africans whose very bodies were abused and destroyed in this iteration of the "civilizing mission" and "modernity" in empire. Working through a broad range of archives located in France, Switzerland, the U.S., and the Congo, the book's several chapters outline in visceral detail the individuals and structures involved in making the railroad a reality, from the forced enlistment of African labourers, through the challenges of resistant landscape, the suffering of those physically tasked with its conquest, to the justifying rhetoric of those who championed the  project and the denunciations of those who sought to reveal its atrocious human cost. Key individual architects, company, and government representatives appear throughout these pages along with the powerful forces and voices of the French imperial state. Working with and against the presentation of the project in official documents, Daughton seeks to illuminate the experiences and voices of the African workers who made the railroad a reality. Completed by the 1930s, the Congo-Océan was also a large-scale humanitarian failure. Interested in broader questions of colonial violence and how scholars engage with and respond to that violence, Daughton's narrative and analysis will be accessible to wide range of readers. This, despite the difficult and painful subjects and stories it takes on. Roxanne Panchasi is an Associate Professor of History at Simon Fraser University in Vancouver, Canada who specializes in twentieth and twenty-first century France and empire. She is the founding host of New Books in French Studies, a channel launched in 2013. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/african-studies

J. P. Daughton's In the Forest of No Joy: The Congo-Océan Railroad and the Tragedy of French Colonialism (W. W. Norton, 2021) examines the complex and violent French construction of a line of railroad in Equatorial Africa from the coast inland. Begun in 1921, the Congo-Océan took 13 years to complete and resulted in the deaths of between 15,000 and 23,000 African lives. Daughton's book is a careful account of the brutality, harrowing labor conditions, and deprivation of these thousands of Africans whose very bodies were abused and destroyed in this iteration of the "civilizing mission" and "modernity" in empire. Working through a broad range of archives located in France, Switzerland, the U.S., and the Congo, the book's several chapters outline in visceral detail the individuals and structures involved in making the railroad a reality, from the forced enlistment of African labourers, through the challenges of resistant landscape, the suffering of those physically tasked with its conquest, to the justifying rhetoric of those who championed the  project and the denunciations of those who sought to reveal its atrocious human cost. Key individual architects, company, and government representatives appear throughout these pages along with the powerful forces and voices of the French imperial state. Working with and against the presentation of the project in official documents, Daughton seeks to illuminate the experiences and voices of the African workers who made the railroad a reality. Completed by the 1930s, the Congo-Océan was also a large-scale humanitarian failure. Interested in broader questions of colonial violence and how scholars engage with and respond to that violence, Daughton's narrative and analysis will be accessible to wide range of readers. This, despite the difficult and painful subjects and stories it takes on. Roxanne Panchasi is an Associate Professor of History at Simon Fraser University in Vancouver, Canada who specializes in twentieth and twenty-first century France and empire. She is the founding host of New Books in French Studies, a channel launched in 2013. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/science-technology-and-society

J. P. Daughton's In the Forest of No Joy: The Congo-Océan Railroad and the Tragedy of French Colonialism (W. W. Norton, 2021) examines the complex and violent French construction of a line of railroad in Equatorial Africa from the coast inland. Begun in 1921, the Congo-Océan took 13 years to complete and resulted in the deaths of between 15,000 and 23,000 African lives. Daughton's book is a careful account of the brutality, harrowing labor conditions, and deprivation of these thousands of Africans whose very bodies were abused and destroyed in this iteration of the "civilizing mission" and "modernity" in empire. Working through a broad range of archives located in France, Switzerland, the U.S., and the Congo, the book's several chapters outline in visceral detail the individuals and structures involved in making the railroad a reality, from the forced enlistment of African labourers, through the challenges of resistant landscape, the suffering of those physically tasked with its conquest, to the justifying rhetoric of those who championed the  project and the denunciations of those who sought to reveal its atrocious human cost. Key individual architects, company, and government representatives appear throughout these pages along with the powerful forces and voices of the French imperial state. Working with and against the presentation of the project in official documents, Daughton seeks to illuminate the experiences and voices of the African workers who made the railroad a reality. Completed by the 1930s, the Congo-Océan was also a large-scale humanitarian failure. Interested in broader questions of colonial violence and how scholars engage with and respond to that violence, Daughton's narrative and analysis will be accessible to wide range of readers. This, despite the difficult and painful subjects and stories it takes on. Roxanne Panchasi is an Associate Professor of History at Simon Fraser University in Vancouver, Canada who specializes in twentieth and twenty-first century France and empire. She is the founding host of New Books in French Studies, a channel launched in 2013. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/french-studies

J. P. Daughton's In the Forest of No Joy: The Congo-Océan Railroad and the Tragedy of French Colonialism (W. W. Norton, 2021) examines the complex and violent French construction of a line of railroad in Equatorial Africa from the coast inland. Begun in 1921, the Congo-Océan took 13 years to complete and resulted in the deaths of between 15,000 and 23,000 African lives. Daughton's book is a careful account of the brutality, harrowing labor conditions, and deprivation of these thousands of Africans whose very bodies were abused and destroyed in this iteration of the "civilizing mission" and "modernity" in empire. Working through a broad range of archives located in France, Switzerland, the U.S., and the Congo, the book's several chapters outline in visceral detail the individuals and structures involved in making the railroad a reality, from the forced enlistment of African labourers, through the challenges of resistant landscape, the suffering of those physically tasked with its conquest, to the justifying rhetoric of those who championed the  project and the denunciations of those who sought to reveal its atrocious human cost. Key individual architects, company, and government representatives appear throughout these pages along with the powerful forces and voices of the French imperial state. Working with and against the presentation of the project in official documents, Daughton seeks to illuminate the experiences and voices of the African workers who made the railroad a reality. Completed by the 1930s, the Congo-Océan was also a large-scale humanitarian failure. Interested in broader questions of colonial violence and how scholars engage with and respond to that violence, Daughton's narrative and analysis will be accessible to wide range of readers. This, despite the difficult and painful subjects and stories it takes on. Roxanne Panchasi is an Associate Professor of History at Simon Fraser University in Vancouver, Canada who specializes in twentieth and twenty-first century France and empire. She is the founding host of New Books in French Studies, a channel launched in 2013. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

The eternal triangle at a disease-ridden mine in Equatorial Africa is complicated by restless natives and a Whistleresque ending. In the vast wilderness of equatorial Africa, a land of violent rains and oppressive heat, a small village huddles at the mouth of an American owned mine. Carefully set apart from the squalid native huts stands […]

We are excited to welcome back Tricia Eastman on the Mangu.tv podcast for an episode of psychedelic confessions. Tricia is a medicine woman, author, artist, speaker, advocate for the psychedelic movement, and founder of the non-profit platform, Ancestral Heart. She is in the process of creating a wellness and retreat centre with thermal hot springs, on the island of San Miguel in the Azores, to open in 2024. Eastman's book, Seeding Consciousness: Plant Medicine, Ancestral Wisdom, and the Path to Transcendence is coming out in 2023. As a medicine woman, Tricia has curated retreats working with 5-MeO-DMT and Iboga for eight years. She has been initiated into multiple branches of Bwiti, the ancestral tradition from Equatorial Africa working with Iboga and facilitating the psychospiritual program with Ibogaine, and 5-MeO-DMT at Crossroads Treatment Center in Mexico. In this episode Tricia talks about her experiences with psychedelics such as Ayahuasca, Psilocybin, San Pedro, and 5-MeO-DMT. Giancarlo and Tricia discuss the holistic and medicinal uses for CBD, Cannabis and Tobacco, as well as the importance of preparation, integration and embodiment practices alongside psychedelic assisted psychotherapy.

We are very grateful to host Tricia Eastman on this Mangu.tv podcast episode. Eastman is a medicine woman, author, artist, speaker, advocate for the psychedelic movement, and founder of the non-profit platform, Ancestral Heart. She is in the process of creating a wellness and retreat centre with thermal hot springs, on the island of San Miguel in the Azores, to open in 2024. Eastman's book, Seeding Consciousness: Plant Medicine, Ancestral Wisdom, and the Path to Transcendence is coming out in 2023. As a medicine woman, Eastman has curated retreats working with 5-MeO-DMT and Iboga for eight years. She has been initiated into multiple branches of Bwiti, the ancestral tradition from Equatorial Africa working with Iboga and facilitating the psychospiritual program with Ibogaine and 5-MeO-DMT at Crossroads Treatment Center in Mexico. In this podcast, we look at Eastman's journey from the womb into her adolescent years and discuss how Iboga helped reveal and heal her past traumas. Eastman discusses the influence of indigenous principles and prayer deeply rooted within her from her maternal Mexican ancestors. Later in the podcast, Eastman reveals the joys and intricacies of working with Iboga and 5-MeO-DMT and how personal experiences with these medicines have led her to where she is today.

Hello Interactors,Last week my daughter showed us a glimpse of the Empire State Building from her friend's dorm room. Every time I see that building, I think of the original black and white movie, King Kong. The image of that poor animal atop what was then world's tallest structure getting pummeled by machine gun fire sticks with me for some reason. Maybe it's because it was unfair. That creature was captured from his homeland and brought to America only to be gunned down? What kind of society does this?As interactors, you're special individuals self-selected to be a part of an evolutionary journey. You're also members of an attentive community so I welcome your participation.Please leave your comments below or email me directly.Now let's go…FAREWELL TO THE KINGMerian C. Cooper got the idea of King Kong from the French-American explorer and anthropologist, Paul Du Chaillu. He was the first of European origin to confirm the existence of Central African gorillas in 1860. This made him a much sought-after speaker in the late 1800s, and his books were immensely popular. Cooper's uncle gifted the then six-year-old nephew with one, Explorations and Adventures in Equatorial Africa. It tells of one gorilla locals noted for its “extraordinary size”:“They believe, in all this country, that there is a kind of gorilla — known to the initiated by certain mysterious signs, but chiefly by being of extraordinary size — which is the residence of certain spirits of departed natives. Such gorillas, the natives believe, can never be caught or killed.”And then, while Du Chaillu was out hunting with locals, an encounter occurred. As Du Chaillu recalls,“When he saw our party he erected himself and looked us boldly in the face . . . with immense body, huge chest, and great muscular arms, with fiercely-glaring large deep gray eyes, and a hellish expression of face, which seemed to me like some nightmare vision: thus stood before us this king of the African forest.”And so, they did what they believed to be impossible but predictable. Du Chaillu continues,“[The gorilla] advanced a few steps— then stopped to utter that hideous roar again- advanced again, and finally stopped when at a distance of about six yards from us. And here, just as he began another of his roars, beating his breast in rage, we fired, and killed him.”Cooper went on to call this creature King Kong and made a movie about him. He wanted King Kong to be portrayed as being 50-60 feet tall. After all, he was kidnapped from a fictional small island that was also home to dinosaurs.It turns out a gorilla that size is biologically impossible. For every doubling of height comes a tripling of weight. The joints and bones of a creature of this size simply could not bear his weight. King Kong was also impossible to portray on the big screen. Animators and cinematographers had difficulties portraying an animal of that size in the 1930s. Consequently, King Kong ends up appearing much smaller. Instead of weighing a couple hundred tons, let's assume this mythical beast was shorter and weighed something more like 15 tons.Still huge, that would be about two times the mass of an elephant requiring about 12,000 watts of metabolism to survive. And that is just the energy required to keep the organs running and nothing else. Around the time the original King Kong was being released, a biologist named Max Kleiber was plotting various animals' metabolic rate and mass on a graph. To his surprise, the dots on the graph loosely aligned along a straight line sloping upwards with a mouse near the origin and an elephant to the upper right.Kleiber had discovered a scaling law in nature known now as Kleiber's law. For most animals, their metabolic rate scales to the 3⁄4 power of the animal's mass. Put another way, for every doubling of size the energy needed to survive decreases by ¼. Theoretical physicist and former President of the Santa Fe Institute, Geoffrey West, and his colleagues, believe ¾ scaling occurs due to the nutrient distribution through the efficiency seeking fractal-like structures of the circulatory system. The ‘3' in ¾ comes about, it is believed, because the particles needed to arrange these mechanisms exists in a three-dimensional geometric universe.  Animals observed in the wild maximize their energy to survive. Every bit of energy spent above and beyond what is required for their body to function only pushes their caloric needs into debt. GPS tracked tigers, for example, reveal highly optimized search strategies over space and time in their hunt for prey. A lounging cat may appear lazy to us, but their maximizing their energy.Early human hunter-gatherers were seemingly not that different. For similar reasons, they had to be deliberate about the energy they used. However, as their cultures evolved, along with their brain, they became increasingly effective at harnessing that energy. They used some of their energy to fashion spears, arrows, and hooks out of wood, bones, and rocks. They also used wood to make fire for heating, cooking, and controlled grassland burns to promote plant harvest renewal. In doing so, they were not only expending their own energy, but also the energy stored in that wood and other forms of biomass.The appropriation of elements of the ecosystem for energy to support biological and social well-being, like plant harvesting, animal domestication, or consumption of biomass like wood and coal, is called social metabolism or sociometabolism. The social metabolism of these early societies sometimes had small effects on the ecosystem, but other times catastrophic. For example, the misuse of fire could lead to imbalances in ecosystems with detrimental cascading effects on plant and animal populations. The arrival of North America's first homo sapiens, as another example, coincided with the extinction of 33 species of large animals. Similar extinctions occurred upon the arrival of humans in South America and Australia. It turns out even the earliest human colonizers had detrimental impacts on the environment.PLOTTING THE PLODDING AND MARAUDINGBy studying existing hunter-gatherer societies, scientists can estimate the social metabolism of ancient hunter-gatherers. Geographer Yadvinder Malhi analyzed this data and determined,“The energy use per capita of a hunter-gatherer is about 300 W, and this is almost entirely in the process of acquiring food for consumption, and to a much lesser extent other materials and the use of fire. This sociometabolism is greater than the 80–120 W required for human physiological metabolism, because of the inefficiencies in both acquiring foodstuffs, and in human conversion of food into metabolic energy, and also in the use of biomass energy sources for fuel.”Malhi then plotted where a hunter-gatherer would sit on a Kleiber plot relative to the biological metabolism of other animals. A typical hunter-gatherer's combined biological and social metabolism puts them just between a human and a bull.The social metabolism of homo sapiens continued to grow steadily, and along with it their capacity to harness nature for their lifestyle. And then, 5,000-10,000 years ago, during the Neolithic revolution, a simultaneous innovation occurred around the world – farming. The start of the Holocene witnessed the emergence of agriculture in Mesopotamia and Anatolia, the Yangtze valley, New Guinea, West Africa, Meso-America, and the Andes. The end of the ice age softened the earth, human language and communication had evolved and spread, and coincidently the colonization and exploitation of ecosystems.Agriculture, the colonization of plants, allowed for geographically condensed energy to be grown which could support larger populations of people. This put a huge dependency on area of land needed to support and grow plants and animals. But these new densities of biomass reduced the amount energy required to roam large distances hunting and gathering. As a result, many hunter-gatherer societies could not compete, and Iron Age plant and animal farmers came to dominate. These clusters of agrarian societies grew around the world and with them languages and cultures. Soon the age of the agrarian came to dominate human existence. Using data from a well documented 18th century Austrian agrarian society, Malhi went to work to plot where a typical ‘agriculturist' may fit on the Kleiber plot. He surmises:“Compared to the hunter-gatherer sociometabolic regime, by the 18th century human sociometabolism per capita had increased by one to two orders of magnitude.” Given the population density such a society could support, the “per unit area energy consumption” grew “three to four orders of magnitude greater than that of a hunter-gatherer society.”This plops the typical human agriculturalist below a rhino on the Kleiber plot. In other words, an active member of an 18th century agrarian society would have consumed as much energy as a resting animal nearly 10 times their mass. It seems over-consumptive human habits started early in our evolution.Agrarian societies and hunter-gather societies were both constrained by land area. While agriculturalists were more efficient with land use than hunter-gatherers, they were nonetheless constrained by land. This is especially true for their primary source of fuel for heating and cooking – trees. That all changed with the birth of the Industrial age and the discovery of coal.The potential energy in trees is stored solar energy from the relatively recent past. Coal is solar energy stored in biomass that accumulated and fossilized over millions of years in the deep layers of the earth's outer crust, the lithosphere. For the first time in history, humans could exploit energy stored in deep time. Coal could more easily be transported over great distances. In theory, this would reduce the need to further exploit land and wood, but instead their destruction increased.The Industrial age brought new forms of locomotion and transportation networks accelerated the expansion of colonization, land development, and the destruction of grasslands, swamps, and wooded areas. Healthy, thriving ecosystems were sacrificed for new and expanding cities and farms. Coal powered machines extracted elements from nature to make fertilizers, sawed, split, and planed trees into lumber, and stamped, squeezed, and shipped goods around the world feeding growing economies and their consumers. Fossil fuels accelerated and intensified the destruction of the biosphere and continue to do so to this day. The energy use of the biomass past to support today's social metabolism puts in question the biomass of the future, including its human consumers.CAPITALIZING ON A MONSTER APPETITEMalhi identifies two key factors of industrial social metabolism:The amount of biomass needed for biological metabolic survival (i.e. food) is small compared to fossil fuels and other high-density energy sources.Fossil fuels used for building transportation networks meant population centers need not be co-located with food and energy production.So where does the typical ‘industrialist' sit on the Kleiber plot? Just above an elephant. That is, the amount of metabolic energy needed for a human to lead a typical industrialized lifestyle today is the equivalent of a resting elephant. Imagine the streets of the most populated cities being roamed by humans the size and weight of an elephant. Streams of cars on the freeway being driven by a five-ton mammal with an insatiable appetite. That's us. Well, many of us, anyway.Those numbers are for the average ‘industrialist' in the UK where Malhi teaches. American's stereotypically love our exceptionalism, and we are certainly exceptional in this regard. Sorry, Canadians, you're implicated too. North American's are the King Kong's of energy consumption. Our dot on the Kleiber plot sits where a mythical 15-ton mammal would sit. The typical human in the United States and Canada consumes energy like King Kong. That's well over 100 times the mass and energy needed for basic survival and 10 times more than agriculturalists that existed just 200 years ago.When Du Chaillu and his native guides shot the king of the forest, Du Chaillu did not exploit the energy of that innocent animal as food. He instead chose to eat the deer they also killed. But the local hunters, who allegedly had long pursued the so-called king of the jungle, did. Including his brain. Eating the brain from the skull of a gorilla, Du Chaillu reported, was believed to bring “a strong hand for the hunt…and success with the women.”Perhaps this played into Cooper's storyline in King Kong. After all, it was a native tribal king on Skull Island who offered to trade six tribal women for the attractive American blonde woman, Ann Darrow, accompanying the crew on their expedition. She is then captured by a band of natives and offered up to King Kong as a sacrifice. But King Kong is felled by a gas bomb by American explorers and shipped back to New York to be put on display. King Kong then breaks from his chains and hunts down Ann. That's what leads to the iconic scene of King Kong getting massacred atop the Empire State Building. War pilots fire machine guns from their planes as King Kong swats at them like flies while intermittently fondling the captive heroin, Ann.King Kong, the movie, has since been interpreted as a story of race (King Kong as a metaphor for a Black man stolen from his homeland in bondage), sex (a white blonde woman who, fetishized as a sexual object pursued by Indigenous and Black men, must be saved), and rebellion (King Kong, as a Black man, breaks from his shackles and must be violently subdued). He has rebelled and therefore must be killed.But before this interpretation, King Kong was said to represent FDR's ‘New Deal'. Cooper was a devote anti-communist and conservatives like him regarded the New Deal as a menace – an imprisoned import of a policy from a faraway land unleashed on society. Just like King Kong. It must be killed.I'll offer my own interpretation:King Kong is an outsized mythical beast so absurdly huge that it can't bear its own weight. When it does manage to move, it destroys the environment in its path. What is erected before us, since the dawn of the Anthropocene (or is it the Capitalocene), is an over exploitive and consumptive way of life that is off the charts. It has ‘an immense body, huge chest, and great muscular arms.' It has ‘fiercely-glaring large deep gray eyes, and a hellish expression of face.'  It ‘seems to me like some nightmare vision.' What stands before us is this king of environmental destruction. And it must be killed. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit interplace.io

Ketch talks about the current lineup of Old Crow Medicine Show, his time living off the land in Avery County, North Carolina when the band first formed, his recent fascination with music from Equatorial Africa and Texas border country, how he always wants to be, as he puts it, a mockingbird, and much more, including music from their new album Paint This Town.

the land is my ancestorPatty So, anyway, so we're here with Keolu Fox. Chanda had made this comment, quoting you about the land is my ancestor, and that is a scientific statement. And she was just completely taken by that comment. And then so was I. And that's really all I've been thinking about. Because it's just such a, it's just such a neat way of thinking and understanding our relationship with the other than human world and our connection to place, and all of that. And so yeah, so now I'm going to let you introduce yourself. And what you mean by that phrase, when you say the land is our ancestor,KeoluRoger that. Aloha everybody, my name is Keolu Fox and my mo'oku'auhau, or my genealogical connection or origin is to the Kohala Kapaʻau  which is the northernmost district of the Big Island of Hawaii. And I'm joining you from the Kumeyaay nation here in La Jolla. And it's a beautiful day, it's always a beautiful day here. But I'm a genome scientist, I focus on all kinds of things. And mostly, I have been really thinking about that idea.And I've been centering around that idea for a little bit. Because many of you know, there have been a lot of things going on where we live, where we're from the Big Island right now. Our volcano is active, and Pele is letting her hair down. But we have another very sacred place. And that's Mauna a Wākea, Mauna Kea, right? There have been all of these protests in this, this tension that's kind of like, played out in a lot of different ways. Because we have a problem with settler colonialism. And we have scientists, who would rather seek authorization instead of instead of consensus building and taking care to actually asked our people what we want.And so I thought about this idea of like, what is actually shaping our genomes over time, right? We always have these comments about our, our genealogical connection to the Āina, right? Like one of my favorite online scholars, was a medical doctor, his name's Dr. N. Emmett Aluli., is always saying the health of the land is the health of the people and the health of the people is the health of the land. And when you think about that, historically, it's actually the same thing. So, what our community is saying about a, hey do you need to dig four stories into the Earth, into this Āina, you know, not only our ancestors buried there, and there’s fresh water aquifers, and there's, it's a very sacred place for cultural protocol. But it's also our ancestor.And so I think that gets lost to a lot of my Western colleagues with a certain worldview, they're, they're willing to accept the idea that, you know, natural selection, and Charles Darwin and these finches on these islands have been shaped by this different geography. But they're not willing to accept it in terms of humans, because they're human exceptionalists. So from our point of view, it's like, we are, the Mauna, the Mauna is us, it really has shaped our genomes. So has the ebb and flow of the moana, the ocean. So has high elevation in the Himalayas.  So in that sense, you know, I think Indigenous people have it right, because we have not really completely separated ourselves from the Āina.That's why we believe in sustainability. We, you know, indigeneity is sustainability. Like it's the, it's synonymous. And I can give you a bunch of examples, but I think, I think that idea is really powerful, because it allows you to like, with just complete fluidity, connect all of these really important ideas around natural selection and evolution, and also Indigenous epistemology. And if you look historically to like the ways we talk about biological complexity in the Kumulipo, which is an ancient origin chant, which was famously translated by Queen Liliuokalani. And you'll see that like, if you look at where this this, this story starts this chant is Pule, where it begins is with like darkness. Right? And then we get into single celled organisms, slime molds, and then we build up the complexity you see over time. And, and, and I'm not like an authority scholar on that. But I think it's so important that it's not. It's not wrong at all. You know, in fact, it was right before, maybe somebody like Charles Darwin had put it together in English. So I think that's a really important idea. And the ways that we think about evolution and natural selection in our relationship to the Āina is really important.Patty Yeah, I'm reading right now, though, I always have, like, so many books close to me, Salmon and Acorns, Feed Our People. And early on in the book, she kind of makes a very similar point, because she's talking about the Kuruk people in Northern California, and the interconnectedness of the salmon and the water and the people and the geography and, you know, and how we impact the environment and the environment impacts them. And it goes, you know, and everything just kind of keeps weaving, weaving back and forth. It. And I think you're right, I mean, in that connection that we have, that is indigeneity, the, you know, kind of that maintaining that connection, but now I you know, as we talk about that, you know, I'm looking at Kerry, who's part of the you know, the African diaspora who maybe doesn't know, you know, kind of she talks about, you know, connecting with Ghana, but not, I'm gonna let you talk about that.After you turn your mic on, I'm gonna let you talk about that*laughter* Today, I learned from AW Peet to talk about turning your mic on rather than being mute. Yeah, I can you're going to be ableist. learn from AW on a daily basis. I love them.Kerry Okay, thank you for that reminder, because I have the headset going and then clicked off. And I didn't realize both really does matter. So anyway, what was coming to mind for me as I was listening to this conversation, and, you know, just feeling into this information. You know, what just came up just from, like, I think it's that soul space is, of course we are, and what comes up when we think about, you know, the earth, you know, the space of our being, being connected through this human genome being a part of the earth and all of it being interconnected. Why? What I what I believe has happened is, as we have moved into this colonial space, that disconnection is been such a disruption that has affected our genome, and had has us acting in ways that is not like ourselves, and what what I take when we think about myself and my, my Blackness, in, in my wanting to know, where my where I come from, I feel into this ancestral memory. And I know, it's an epigenetic memory of something that my, my ancestry has not known for a very long time. And yet, I feel it. And that's why when we are having this conversation, I was so interested, I've been reading and listening and watching some of your work in the last day, actually, I really sat down and watched it. And it's, it makes me go in, it makes me go to that deep space. And what what do we offer out? Or what words would you offer out for those of us who don't have that direct connection? And yet the earth that special, that special link is calling us?KeoluHmm, I think that is a brilliant question. And I think like couching it that way, too, because of the forced migration of people is still a diaspora. Right? And that is a really powerful and important idea in terms of thinking about, it's not just shaping our genome or mo'oku'auhau and our genealogy but we have this term we love in Hawaii and it's Ka mua, ka muri, and it means walking backwards into the future. And actually, we say that all throughout throughout the moanoculture. So Tahiti, Marquesas, Samoa, Maori, like we all We all say this this term. And I think it's a really important thing to think about.So when we like when we think about our radiation and diaspora, across the Pacific, if I just focus on island people, we have a founder people who are on waapa, right? They're on boats, they're going they find a new place. They represent like a fraction of that genomic diversity that existed in the original place or position. That's not so different than a forced migration. No, I mean, very similar. Then you have the arrival later, of settlers, and you get like these population collapses. And so what happens is that population that's made it to Hawaii, or you know, really any Indigenous community from Hernan Cortes, to James Cook, this encounter with colonialism, again, shapes our genome, and we can see this, when we look at the genomes of modern Indigenous people, we can see this decrease in human leukocyte antigen HLA diversity. So in that sense, it's like, the geography shapes our genome over time. It does, we are the Āina, but so do our encounters with genocide, so do our encounters with and those are like, that means that everybody that's, that's Hawaiian, for example, is a survivor of that event.It also means that the way we attenuate inflammation, which is the root cause of common complex disease, from everything from heart disease, to cancer to and, you know, insulin sensitivity, COVID-19, all of these things are a reflection of our history. Now, our methods are getting so sensitive at identifying these things, that it's a matter of maybe asking ethical questions and saying, maybe we need more people from our communities to ask the hard questions, to build these and help prioritize these scientific questions. And iteratively kind of co-design and co-partner with the communities that we come from, because the truth is, these are hard questions to ask. Like, like, I think in our lifetimes, we will be able to determine what the impact on people's health is of the transatlantic slave trade.And that is not a question for me to ask, though. Right. And I and I don't think that like that positionality, like, when I started this job, as a professor, someone told me, “You know, we think it's weird that you're Hawaiian, and you would want to work with Hawaiian communities. That's not objective.” And I had to fall back for a second, I was like, I'm really shocked that you would ask that some anybody would say that, you know, but that is how like, that is the status quo. And how brainwashed people are in academia like that is how few people from our communities make it into these leadership positions to be primary investigators for these major projects. These people are so not in tune with being like they work with, like Margaret Mead or something, right? Like, she's not Samoan. That's why she had all these dumb ideas. Right? Right. Like think about it like that would never?You know, there's just tremendous insight that our people have when we work with our communities. One, if you f**k up, you can't go home for Christmas. Go home for the holidays you’re already home. Yeah, you know what I mean? Like there's, there's like a kuleana, like an obligation to your people and our health and all these other things. But also, it's like ensuring that the questions we ask are prioritized by our communities. I think I think we're getting there. And I think the way that we're interpreting the data is so much more advanced too, you know, and we're just getting started. So it's gonna be a beautiful future. But, you know, but I think that these questions aren't, aren't easy to ask, you know, soPatty You talk about Just So Stories that you know, the Rudyard Kipling stories, but then you apply them to the scientific process. And that's kind of what this is making me think is, you know, because we come up with these ideas, or we like scientists, colonial scientists come up with these ideas, and who is in the room takes very much what questions are being asked, Can you unpack that a little bit about the Just So Story so that people know what I'm talking about?KeoluYeah, that's a that's, that's a great like, it's a child’s story from Rudyard Kipling. who like if people who are listening don't know you, maybe you've heard of The Jungle Book, or you heard of the book Kim. Some of these old school, you know, they're like pretty colonial they take place in India, mostly. But he wrote this child's book for his daughter. And the book kind of has these funny stories where they explain like why is the elephant's nose so long? Well the elephants nose is so long because they got tugged on for 30 minutes by an alligator when he was trying to drink some water or whatever, right? But what what these two scientists in this I want to say late 70s? Peter No. Yeah, Stephen Jay Gould and Richard Lewontin. What they did is they said well, these these ideas are used to explain evolutionary things like their their adapt their what they call adaptionist narrative. So it's like, I can use an evolutionary narrative to explain innateness and this gets really dangerous and can become super racist, because it's used to justify shitty correlative science.So, so and I had this mentor and he would always tell me, you know, tell me 2genes, any two genes in the genome, there's like 20,000 genes, and buy me a whiskey and I'll tell you a story. And what he was trying to say was, I can make a correlative story about anything statistically. But that doesn't mean that it like mechanistically is true. So what you see is people invoking adaptionism, natural selection and evolution, to justify really racist science that discredits the accomplishments of Indigenous people, for example.So one of the examples I love to give is this Thrifty Gene narrative where they're like, oh, you know, and, you know, we know, we know, we're not dummies, we know we have a problem with type two diabetes and obesity in our community. We also know that Hawaiian people are really big, Samoan people are really big. We're all big. But part of it has to do with, you know, many different factors. Part of it is colonialism, because you took away our access to the reefs, and our rights around land stewardship, and hunting and fishing and all these other things. So when you replace those traditional food ways with spam, white rice and soy sauce, what do you think you get? Right.But when you say that the reason we have this problem is is a genetic innateness. That comes from our diaspora. That's racist, right? So why do those narratives get perpetuated in really popular scientific journals, they end up in the media, and it comes down to discrediting our voyaging accomplishments. Because if you've ever talked to any navigator, they'll tell you, these waapa, these boats were filled to the brim with sweet potato, taro, pigs, chicken, all kinds of things, there was never a problem with like scarcity of calories. So how would we develop a problem where we become sensitive to or have problems with hyper caloric storage in a modern-day setting? You see what I'm saying?And so like it gets, it gets wound up and entangled into these racist narratives in the way that they describe, maybe genome sequence data. What we do see with this mutation in this gene, it's called CRE BRF. And it's privately found in the Pacific amongst Hawaiians, we've even found it in the Chamorro and Guam. And what we see with it is it's actually associated with muscle density. And there was a follow up study, I believe in Aotearoa. It's showing that Polynesian rugby players of a, you know, of Polynesian or Maori ancestry have a higher frequency of this mutation. So it's more like a tall, dark and handsome mutation that has to do with BMI and athletic performance than it is like a thrifty mutation that predisposes us to obesity. But do you see how different it is when I'm just choosing that, that as an example, we could do this with sickle cell? We could be like, Oh, it makes people from Equatorial Africa weak. Or we could say no, this is, this is actually truly remarkable in the way that how many people have died from malaria, you know, so it's really about it's really about how you interpret the mutations and what they actually do. But if you don't have mechanistic evidence, then why are you making up and spinning these b******t narratives that discredit our accomplishments as people?Kerry I'm really just fascinated with this conversation and and where you're going with this because one of the pieces I was reading when you were speaking, talks about how most of the studies when we look at the genome, when we look at you know, breaking down the genetic understanding of things really has not done has not been done on Indigenous and People of Color. And so, you know, hearing you break that down, because we too have supposedly a pre disposition for type two diabetes and high blood pressure. It gives that different perspective. And I remember once I don't know, I remember hearing Oprah speak about that in the Black community. And I don't know who she she had been speaking to a scientist of some sort. And I remember some of the information that came out was the one of the reasons why from a Black standpoint, we seem to have had a propensity, because we, even in the Middle Passage, why we survived some of the challenges was because we had an ability to take in salt, our ability to hold salt in our thing, which does lead to the type two diabetes or the high blood pressure. But because we had this mutation, it actually was one of those things that afforded us to survive the atrocities of that passage, because we were able to to absorb and survive less, or our salt intakes kept our water levels or our electrolytes higher, something along those lines. Don't quote me, it was a long time ago, that I heard that, but I remember that stuck to me, because it's what you're speaking about, it's the way that the perspectives are put forward to us. Right. And, you know, normally when we put it that way, it's almost, I've always seen it, or the system puts those those narratives out to us, to keep us feeling less than. That somehow, right, somehow that structurally, our genetic or genomes or makeup is not, as you know, valuable, or as put together as some. And when we then talk about this idea that it has not, we haven't even been studied in the same way. How, how does those two things play off of each other?KeoluYes. Yeah. I mean, um, so first and foremost, I'm so glad you mentioned that, that, that it's like we're taking a, pardon the pun, but it's a minority of the data, if it's 90% of genome wide studies, they've mostly included people of Western European ancestry. So, you're making all these inferences and narrativizing data? You know, less than 1% of these studies have included Indigenous people, very small percentages of included individuals of African ancestry, and that's a continent.I want to put some things into context. It's like that is the origin of mankind. We spent more time there than anywhere else on planet Earth, it has more genetic diversity, languages, cultural diversity, food, culture. I mean, it is heritage, it's it's so to reduce it again, as a monolith to one continent isn't nuts, that's one. And then, and then we have all of these other conversations that go around there. And to your point about the the salt slavery hypertension hypothesis, which is a very, which is a very interesting idea. Again, it's a narrative that's popularized, but but again, it's not been taken to task in a way where it's either been proven or disproven, because we don't have enough data for that.So of course, when you build narratives, it's going to be it's not going to be in service of a community, you're not going to ask questions about how much stress to these people have every day? Is that a factor? What about people's diets? What about people's access to healthy food, and all of these other kind of metrics that are probably more informative and predictive of people's health.  So I'm not saying that genomics doesn't play a role it does. But again, the the way that you we create narratives around it. Now then let's look at the other side of the coin, because this is the most brutal part 95% of clinical trials feature white people. So, we're not even designing drugs for our people in the way that we were like, designing drugs for one population and then giving it to other people.Or I worked in blood transfusion research for a while. And we would have 90% of people who donate blood are white, and then and then the, the kind of inverse of that, you know, sickle cell patients are Black. You see what I'm saying? Like it's a it's a stark contrast. We're literally giving somebody a temporary organ, we're infusing them with blood that includes all types of diversity of RNA from one other, you've seen what mRNA can do now. Having, now we're taking RNA from one person and giving it to another and we're not really thinking about what the consequences of that are. So I'm just saying we've not really thought everything through it a more thoughtful way, because we haven't had the attention to detail with population specific medicine. And I'm hoping that over the next few decades, that becomes something that's really importantKerry That, that I love that so much that really resonates with me because my brother, my brother in law, actually doesn't have sickle cell. But he carries the sickle cell trait. And he also carries the Thalassemia traits. And interestingly, we were just together, it's our, it's our Thanksgiving here in Canada. And we were just down at I was just over at their house. And he's having an episode, where yeah, he's having a sickle cell episode. And it's, you know, he's had several over the years, he's, you know, he's been in our family for 30 years, and I can’t even believe that, but um, we, you know, he's been around. And what we've noticed is my, my niece carries the sickle cell trait, and she gets mild symptoms, she gets very mild, like, sometimes, you know, the fingers tingle, she'll have a stressful event and, you know, really be in pain at the extremities and some of the same things that her father has, but not to the same degree. And well, it's interesting when you bring this up, it, it tells me how little we understand, because technically, he doesn't have the disease. And yet he gets exactly the symptoms, and it has been treated in the same ways, even though they're not exactly sure how and why it's happening. And I bring that up, because it's exactly what you're saying that there's there's, the studies don't extend far enough. Right. And while there, we manage it, it's it's almost been like, I shouldn't say this, but when when the doctors that have been treating him for a long time get around, he's been like a test subject, a bit of a unique case. And it's been trial and error. You know, they've tried different things to see what's worked, and thank goodness. I mean, he's, we can get him through them. But it's, it was something that struck me that it's a unique space, and not very much is known about how to make it work for him. So they, you know, throw things at it. It's hope it's been it sticks so far. Right?KeoluYeah. I mean, we I mean, you know, things get even more complex, when you're you come from a place like Hawaii, they showed in the census data, that we are the most diverse state state in the United States of America. And we, I mean that in by and that's like a long shot. And also we have the highest percentage of mixed ancestry people. And it's been like that for a while. And you know, and that that means that things get a little more complex. And we need to really think about what the future of medicine is going to look like, especially if it's predictive and preventative.Patty  28:10I’m  just thinking it's not that long ago that people were saying that Indigenous people were genetically predisposed to alcoholism. I remember hearing that as a kid. And I think there was a brochure had just come out not that long ago. About some Cree guides, it was a, it was a fishing camp. In northern, I think it was Manitoba, did not to give alcohol to the guides, because they're genetically predisposed to alcoholism. And it was like, these ideas and they take root. They take root, and they don't go anywhere, because they keep medicine, you know, Western medicine, Western scientists, they keep looking for the problem in us. There is something wrong with our genetics, something wrong with our makeup, you got to fix us. There's nothing wrong with colonialism. And with the imposition of you know, this change in diet. And I mean, one of the things in this book that they talk about is the salmon run and how it's gone. It's 4% of what had happened. And that's, you know, so that's a significant change in their diet, which leads to a significant change in their health. You know, because like you said, now they're eating spam and flour.KeoluOh, yeah. I think that's so fascinating. It's like we it's kind of like a slippery slope Sometimes, though, because we can point to actual examples where where we are, I mean, and sickle cell is such a great example. And so is high elevation, adaption and all of these incredible ways in which we are a reflection of the Āina. You know, but when I tell my colleagues, we're going to empirically measure the impact of colonialism on the genome, they're like, whoa whoa whoa,  I don't like that. We don't like that. You know, and you have to think about it. I mean, it's it's about how we choose to. I mean, I obviously like I often do that to make people feel uncomfortable, because I want them to know how we felt going through these medical schools and education programs throughout the whole time, because now we're wielding the power of being able to prioritize the question, and that's unique now. And it feels good. But but but also, but also, um, we want it to have impact. You know, I don't we don't want to tell people where they came from. That's not important to us. That's not a question we prioritize. But if it has a role in thinking about how we can predict and prevent disease, or create treatments that speak to our history, then that's important. And I think I think we're getting there. And yeah, we just, you know, we need to we need more students that like and where the prototype Wait, till you see the next generation? Man? They're like,Patty Yeah, well, I know. You know, we, we have been talking about, you know, studying Kerry often talks about epigenetics, you know, kind of studying the long term impacts of trauma. And I've heard a few people asking what where's the long term studies on the impact of affluence or influence on the impact of greed on some of these ultra wealthy families? What how does that affect their genome? Like, are they genetically predisposed to being selfish a******s? What's going on?KeoluRegarding the epigenetic stuff, we have a new project that we're working on. And yeah, and I mean, I think we're gonna get get to the point of point, point and position where we have tools that are sensitive enough to, you know, ask answer the questions that we that we have, and provide solutions that might result in better better treatments for our people, right.And one of them is the effect of testing nuclear bombs in the Pacific. And this is, you know, my auntie, who is a female, Native Hawaiian colonel, she's retired now. Amazing person. But she spent a lot of time in various places. And I mean, the things that we've we, you know, she's she's told me about and the types of health infrastructure that exists and the rates of different types of cancer that are telltale signatures of nuclear radiation exposure. I mean, it is just astonishing, what you'll see in the Marshall Islands and how Henry Kissinger is like, ah, 50,000 people, that's just a statistic, who cares? Or Jacques Chirac, reinstating nuclear testing programs in French Polynesia, or, you know, among the Tuamotu Island archipelgaos there and Mururoa. And the rates of cancer were seen. And these are telltale signatures, you know, the, the thyroid cancers, the lymph node cancers, the leukemias, and I guess the question is, one, can you detect that? Is it is it going to be a signature of in the genome that is independent of inherited cancer? Is it baked into the genome in a transgenerational way, which would be, that'd be epigenetic inheritance, which in my opinion, is straight up genocide, there should be real reparations for this. And then can we design better types of chemotherapy that speak to that, because if it is, has a unique architecture, and it is a unique signature, then we need better drugs for our people. And the French people need to pay for it. And those are the facts.And so and so here, we are now approaching new questions that we can use these tools for ones that allow us to move forward in terms of medical advancement, but also in terms of our goals of achieving justice. And I am so stoked about these new projects, because I feel like I was born for this s**t. Also, also, because we're capable, and our people deserve better. You know, and I think that's going to inspire other scientists who are way more brilliant than, than I am. To, to come up with with with solutions. But this these are some of the new projects that we're working on.And I'm not afraid of the French government. They know what they did. They tested 193 nuclear bombs over from 1966 to 1996. Think about how recent that is, wow. And then they had the nerve to name their new hospital after Jacques Chirac. And that was when I was like in Paeete in Tahiti, that's such a slap in the face. So from my point of view, and these are my brothers and sisters, you know, those are my my ancestors, my kupuna so you got to understand when you test nuclear bombs in the Pacific, it doesn't just sit there. I mean, you have ocean currents, wind currents, I mean, some of the stuff we're hearing about. So, and those happen to be this is the most important part, these happen to be questions that that community has prioritized as far as health issues go. So here we are.Patty Yeah. And it's, and that's so important because they, they come, people come in, they have these ideas, they want to, you know, with colonial, you know, they see the problem, they're gonna fix it, they're gonna, you know, they're, and then they're, you know, they're doing their studies and their, you know, their outcome measures and all the rest of it. And there's no, there's no relationship, there's no relationship building, at the front end, any relationship that they start is just so that they can come in and help and so that they can come in and fix this. And it's like, they keep doing this. And things just keep getting worse from our point of view. But then that just keeps clearing more land from their point of view. So I understand why ...KeoluMm hmm.Kerry That, you know, I think it gives a new meaning to that saying the road to hell is paved with good intentions. I very often feel that, you know, it's too we see how there seems to be a playbook. And the playbook shows up over and over and over. And any Indigenous any, you know, native communities of any origin around the world. And that idea that the Western colonial system has to come in and fix us. Right, Oh, normally has that underlying agenda, where, you know, they're, they're coming to help. But then, you know, it was like a backhanded help. Because we're, we're always, you know, ass out, pardon my French, you know, especially with the French and any of the other colonials that have come in and created the systems to which we're now having to dig out and build our resiliency up against. And that's, I think, also, another part of this that I'd love to see or hear what your thoughts on about it, is the remarkable way that we have been able to adjust and adapt. Right. Yeah, I really think that that's something that has been so powerful amongst peopleKeoluYeah, I totally agree with that. I'm, my mom is such a genius. She's like the Hawaiian MacGyver, you know, like, she just really figures out ways to engineer all kinds of systems with limited resources. And we live in a pretty rural, isolated place. And, you know, I'm on the phone with her. And she's like, oh, yeah, the truck door, it's not coming for three months, it's on backorder, or this generator part. It's not, it's not coming. But we did this, and so on and so forth. And you see how much ingenuity and genius exists in our communities in all these beautiful ways. And I wouldn't have it any other way. Unless, you know, things became very differently.Now, when we contrast like where we live with other areas, where there's like hotel and tourism, infrastructure, I mean, the things that they need come like *finger snap*, you know, agriculture from the mainland, protein from the mainland, other things. So you just see this contrast and like, what about when we need medical things in our community in the outer islands? Why are you prioritizing capitalism, and profit over our community's health just over and over and over and over again. And I can point to our toxic relationship with tourism throughout this pandemic, because we had an opportunity to push the reset button, right, we had an opportunity to reform and recalibrate and we didn't do it. And that's because we have too many corrupt politicians that are you know what I mean, I'm gonna call it like I see it. I just feel like we had the opportunity to move forward with other forms other, just develop forms of our circular economy, an island system that has all forms of renewable energy.I mean, the island that we live on alone has 11 out of 13 biomes on planet Earth, one of the most biodiverse places on the planet Earth. So why are we the extinction capital of the world? Why are we the invasive species capital of the world? Right? Why do you want to build a golf course here? You know, that's stupid. That's not even a sport, you don't even sweat when you play that I'm talking about. So like that we are very familiar with all these, I mean, the forms of exploitation and the forms of of genius and ingenuity and Futurism, you know, I think that Hawaii is a really incredible place for that. We will continue and whether it's agriculture or ranching or energy sustainability solutions, oceanic sciences, geology, like anything, that's why all these people want to come to our islands to make hay. You know, you know, that we've been, we've been prac ..  How do you think we found these islands? Science? You know? So,Patty yeah, like, when you think like you had talked earlier about, you know, kind of about the Pacific, diaspora and, and, you know, kind of traveling, those are some pretty huge distances requiring some pretty significant knowledge of not just celestial navigation, but winds and ocean currents, and who else is out there, and things that want to eat you and making sure that you have enough food. You know, and who are you gonna call for help when you're on a boat in the middle of the ocean, you got to be pretty resourceful. And like, we don't, we don't often think about that. And that's like, you know, we're so impressed with you know, Columbus, right? It was just Columbus, Indigenous peoples, or whatever. You know, and whoo, you know, he crossed the ocean, whatever. And, you know, 1492, you know, and that was such a major accomplishment. But y'all were all over the Pacific a long time before that.KeoluYou're preaching to the choir, you know, honestly, I just wrote this piece for Indigenous People’s day, Indigenous futures day. And I told you earlier before it's late, yeah. So it'll be out in like, the next 24 hours. But it's about many of those ideas. I mean, we had all of these we had and have all of these super complex. I mean, if you ever get to work or meet some of these master navigators, I mean, they are, they are treasures, like Hawaiian treasures. You know, I mean, they're not all Hawaiin. And, you know, but they're there throughout the Pacific. But, I mean, you're talking about bird migration patterns for land, finding birds, the green turquoise glint on the bottom of a cloud that lets you identify a lagoon from 300 miles away. I mean, you work with these people, and you understand that. It's humbling, you know, people that that are that are operating, and have that skill set.And yeah, I mean, we just got we it was the fastest in less than 1000 years, our kupuna traversed a territory or space of the space of Eurasia, and it wasn't just unidirectional, right. It's like, oceanic superhighway. Complex, dynamic routes back and forth. And I think we're still only beginning to understand what, how truly remarkable that level of travel and comfort on the ocean was. And then when you talk about, like being in tune with the Āina, and how the ocean shapes your genome, I mean, we're talking about people that really understood navigation. And if you're ever out there in the middle of the ocean, and it's not at night, because at night, it gives you a little comfort, and you can use the Milky Way. Right. But, but I mean, during the day, it's just like overwhelmingly confusing. But over there with with the, you know, the Inuit and the Yupik that very similar, I've been been to that part of town and I'm like, oh, it's white everywhere. And it's kind of scary.Patty It just keeps going.  I’ve been up to Iqaluit on Baffin Island. You don't want to leave, like my son lived. My son lived there for 18 months. And he would like to go hiking out on the on the tundra. And he was warned, don't go too far. Like make sure that you can keep certain landmarks in sight. Because you get past the wrong hill. And you're done. You can walk for three days and you won't find anything. So you know to navigate that is just ..  and yet they navigated it circumpolar navigation there. You know, traveling across it only looks far apart. And then you tip the Earth on its side and you can see how connected those circumpolar people are and how actually close together they are. And we forget, we don't think about it like that, because we're so used to looking at the Globe in a particular way. And it's a very Eurocentric way of looking at it.KeoluOh, yeah. No doubt about that. But I saw these little maps, these wooden carved maps, and they were made. I forget, I want to say it was Upik. But it might have been anyway. But it was a used by people who are hunting. They use it as a way to like, understand the coastline in which they're cruising. Oh, I forget what it's called. Yeah, I'll try to find it. I'll send it to you guys afterwards. “Yeah, probably, it's called this.”Patty:*laughing* And I'll remember what you were talking about.Kerry I love that so much. You see what I'm what really comes to me through this whole course of the conversation is what how brilliant. We all are. And, and when we are given the opportunity to stand and feel into and create our own truths. It shifts this enormous and enormously, we shift the space, we really get these new, innovative, which really are connecting back into the old ways anyway. But we can we can get this beautiful space of melding the old, into the new and refreshing allowing ourselves to remember what I think we've already known. And and when I hear, you know, that they're, they're now starting to study the how how people were navigating the seas, and that, you know, it's like a superhighway. And once again, what keeps resoundingly in my head, I always say the ancestors sit on my shoulders. And I'm hearing somebody's going, of course, it was, you know, sometimes we are so removed, because of the view that we sit in right from this colonial Western viewpoint. That it always was. And we're not just talking about, like a period of time, we're talking about real time, people who were living their lives, people who were, you know, creating these experiences, you know, determining their destinies and the end the laneways of the oceans. And I think it's so important to bring that piece of the humanity back, understanding that Mother Earth, Gaia, whatever we want to call this space was connected to that space connected to that be. And I think that's what innately we bring. If that makes sense.KeoluOh, absolutely. It makes sense. I was reading this thing recently about the way that whale bladders are used to make all of the, the skin for the different kayak. They did like this mathematical approximation of like, what would be the perfect aerodynamic or hydrogen dynamic dimensions of this watercraft? And what would it look like if you were to, like, optimize it. And the I mean, over time, First Nations people hit it on the nose, it's absolutely perfectly engineered. It's light, it's packable. And the material I mean you speak to you like using all of the materials of the creature that you're honoring, you know. And that bladder is the perfect material, it’s material sciences. I mean, it's lightweight, its transparent and almost almost camouflaged. And it is impermeable, and it is the same exact thing they used for their parka.And I got I was thinking about that I couldn't stop thinking about it, because it is so perfectly optimized over time. And that it speaks to the local complexity of that environment. And this is the problem with a lot of capitalism, too. It's like, we started this Indigenous Futures Institute here. And the whole goal is to seek that local complexity in every technology that we engineer. Everything that we create should be in context to that environment, just like our genomes, just like that parka just like that the waapa, the way that our ancestors over a long ass period of time finally figured out that if you put two hulls next to each other, you can go anywhere in the world to the most remote islands in the world. If you displace weight and water and make it hydrodynamic that way. And look at all of the models they use for like the America's Cup, for all these like carbon fiber. They're all catamarans and trimarans and so that's our intellectual property, and Larry Ellison better recognize that and pay my people. Because you, you know what I mean, you're talking about these are the fastest boats in the world. That's our stuff. So like, but I just look to all of the ingenuity and context of the environment. And I'm like, Man, I can't stop my mouth is just like *pantomimes open mouth*, amazing. It's amazing. So I just, you know, basically want to spend the rest of my life looking for more that it's everywhere. Yeah.Patty And then what capitalism does though is it takes that one particular model, and then it just wants to replicate it all over the world.  It works here. And let's just do this everywhere. Let's just manufacture mass manufacturing, everywhere. And that's, I love what you're talking about with that Institute. Let's look at the local diversity, that and then look at, look at that local diversity and build that as opposed to just let's just, you know, now we're just gonna scatter it all over the world. And everybody's got to do it.KeoluYes. That's our EK, like, I was thinking about this new initiative in Vancouver, like, if you're listening all my Indigenous peeps in Vancouver, and you're doing that four block stretch, and you're the architect and engineering people on that job. And this is some serious land back stuff. So what they do with it is the most important thing, because you have to show the rest of the world that you're the leader in this s**t. Do not borrow ideas from other places in the world. Make sure that that speaks to your heritage, your accomplishments, your peoples engineering, and make the most be and it will be perfect. But if you try to borrow ideas, we're gonna put Hanging Gardens from India, these bridges and da da, that no, that's that's their thing in Kerala. That's right, you know what I'm saying? Like, it's a trap.Kerry I love this so much, because I think you're right. And I, I think what you're saying too, is, is it's so timely. And it's almost imperative that we hear that, because the earth as we are moving into this next phase environmentally,  we have seen that, that idea of just kind of taking some, you know, status quo prototype sort of thing and dumping it here and dumping it here, there doesn't work well. And I to really, for us to look at this, and I think shifts some of the tides, we're gonna have to get creative, innovative, in so much of understanding each ecosystem, and this idea of the biodiversity of spaces, and working out uniquely, how are we going to be able to affect it to slow down what you know is going on right now, this is very, right, like this is a time where we really have to bring that front and center. And I think these are some of the conversations that I haven't heard really happening, least from the governmental but you know, whoever is in charge spaces, they're just talking about cutting emissions. But I think that idea of narrowing it down has to come front and center,KeoluAgreed Trudeau has to take the colonial wax out of his ears and pay attention to the geniuses in your community. Like pay attention. I think it's so interesting too, because in Hawaii, you know, we we grew up with this, not only was our genome shaped by this ingenuity, but we watched this like dialectically intertwined phenomenon. So we have this Ahupua`a system in Hawaii. So from the top of the the moku all the way down to the ocean, we have this this like sustainable gardening gravity system. And the way it works is like you have freshwater at the top that leads to you know your sweet potato, people in what you're gonna kill me. Sweet potato patch and then you know those from the sweet potato patch and all the phytonutrients from there go into this next garden and all the phytonutrients from there go into the lo’I  which is the taro patch and then those then that bacteria goes into the fish pond where you've created this, you know, artificial fishery environment right on the water and you've stacked stones around so you get like the fish growing and eating in the mangroves and then it cannot go out the hole that it came in because it's too big so can't even get to the reef and it's this complete, then you take the leftover fish and you bring it to the top for fertilize you get I'm saying like it's a complete circular economic system. It's engineered for its invisibleOkay, that's why John Mayer arrives in f*****g excuse me. He arrives in Yosemite and he's like, Wow, this place is pristine and did it and these people are like, bro, we've been cultivating this Āina for 1000s of years, right? That's our our technology systems are invisible. They have been designed to be infinity loops. Right, we talk about the parka. I mean, I could break down any one of those technologies and show you why it's an invisible infinity loop. Let's contrast that with capitalism and optimizing every single system for exponential growth and profit. If it's going this way (upwards), that's not good. It needs to go this way (circular). And so if it's not working within the circular system, and then you have all these other people who's the lady who's talking about donut economics, it's like, okay, you stole our IP. Maybe they're going to give you a MacArthur Genius Grant, another one that should have went to an Indigenous person, you know, can you do, but I think that the that a lot of these large institutions are starting to get hip to it and realize that, that, that they the things that were invisible to them are starting to take shape. You know,Kerry What, what's in the dark always comes to light. And, and I find that interesting, though, is that, you know, just based on what we know, a western culture to do, is that a space that, you know, we want them to know, in that way? I think, for me, what what comes up is making sure we stay front and center and that we're ready to snatch back.KeoluYeah, right. Your IP, the IP thing. I mean, I think we really need to get in I'm we've started a whole kind of Indigenous ventures focus on intellectual property, because we have to position our communities, because that is a great way. And we've started a number of different companies that are really focused on that mechanism. It's like benefit sharing. How do we bring the money back to the people? So let's like for example, let's say you have a community that's adapted to high elevation in the Himalayas, okay, I'm just going to pick them. And we find a genetic mutation that allows us to expedite the development of a new drug to make the next I don't know Viagra. Okay,Pattyokay. High altitude Viagra. But,KeoluI mean, I'm saying this, and it sounds like science fiction, but this is happening. Now, there are multiple companies that are interested in this, okay? Right, okay. Because they know that who did all the legwork for you? Evolution, and if I can zero in on them on a molecule that allows me to understand how to make a new drug, I will do that. And I will patent that information. And I will put that drug on the market.Now, what this company Variant Bio is doing is they're saying, no, actually, we give X percentage of the royalties and intellectual property to the community in which it's derived, they have benefit, they have a benefit sharing clause, okay. And a large portion of that money goes back into select programs that are involved in cultural revitalization practices, education, health care, all the drugs that are created, in partnership with that community, they're either given to the community for free or at cost. So, none of these like Vertex Drug.  Americans are the worst the drug hits the market, it's $300,000 a year and you have can only get access to it through your insurance company. So they're like disrupting the whole relationship.Now, here's the beauty of it. That's because these companies, if they make money on that, this is the they can buy back land, the exact same land that shaped their genome in the first place. And that's a circular economy there. So, we just have to think about re engineering all of these criminal industries, whether it's big pharma, any sort of energy or resource based company, you know, we're big into Indigenous data sovereignty, right? We've been talking about all of these opportunities, and just recognizing data as a resource, just like timber, just like oil, just like diamonds, any rare earth mineral, you know, and I know that the largest companies in the world are all based on generating, mining, modeling data, big data as a resource, and it's a form of economic value. It is the forum, surpassing oil in 2018, as the most important, valuable commodity on planet Earth. So why aren’t our people getting a cut of that?Kerry We you've touched something, I would love to hear more about that. Maybe sending out some research just at the center of understanding of intellectual property, I would love to hear more and how, you know, because that to me, now. Now we're talking about a real way, tangible, fundamental way to shift power. And I think that that one will speak it speaks so loudly and in a language that the capitalist system would understand.  And I think if we that that's something powerful to spread the word on,KeoluI was going to say we're starting a kind of Indigenous intellectual property patent troll entity, because we have to play offense, it seems like often more often than not, were reacting to things or we're writing like these policy pieces, or, dare I say, ethics pieces where we're trying to get people to play book. And then then like a lot of our colleagues, they end up kind of window dressing and referencing our paper, but they don't actually do the things we're telling you to do. So, you know, I'm relatively young. So I'm observing this and seeing who's referencing our papers and see why and you know what, f**k this. We're about to make technologies. Now. We're about to make deterrent technologies, safeguarding technologies, and counter technologies, because we have to get in line and be in control.And, you know, a lot of the things we're doing with like native bio data consortium, we recognize what was Ford's secret sauce, when he created the Model T, vertical integration, they controlled everything from the rubber that they extracted in the Amazon, to the ball bearings to the engine, manufacturing, everything on the manufacturing line, they have complete vertical control of our communities need ready, and not limited to: satellites, so we can decrease the digital divide, write our own cloud based web services, so that we can process our own information and safeguard it, right?  file repositories and store our genomes. We have to I mean, we need we need infrastructure. And we need people to stop investing in these bunk, just criminal and dare I say it, mediocre with the lack of innovation, infrastructures that already exist and invest in our people.Kerry I love this so much. I'm, I'm, wow, this This to me is a conversation that I would really like even just take, take this part of it, and when I really enjoy this, because seriously, I think you're that, to me, is a real, practical, revolutionary idea. And not just an idea, you guys are putting it into practice. And it speaks to me, because we often talk in the Black community about doing very much the same thing, building our own infrastructure. And and talking about claiming these pieces. And I think, you know, sharing that information is powerful, because this is the way we can exist in the system, and claim it back for ourselves and reshape it because it's literally a monster, it's like with eight heads. And these are the ways we can cut off some of the heads and maybe they don't grow back. You know, so I would love for us to maybe do this as another conversation like, Wow, very interesting.Patty But we talked so much about presence, right about, about presence, and being visible in things, but presence is not power. No, we can dominate a room, right? Like we can have, like the whole faculty, you know, be Indigenous people. But that doesn't mean that we have any power over the knowledge that we're creating, or the things that we're putting out there, because somebody is still controlling what papers get published, and somebody you know, and the funding for the projects. So you know, so we can have all the presence in the world, that doesn't mean that we have our overt the ability to control our own genetic material, you know, you know, that goes out there, or what happens with, you know, like we were talking about very early on, you know, the stories that get told about the stuff that you know about the things that are already out there, and the meaning that gets invested in that stuff, and then how that drives medical research. And they keep looking for answers in places that only wind up that only support the colonial system. So this is a really interesting and important application of the things that of you know, of the things that we started off talking about.KeoluYeah, I mean, we're just getting started with building a lot of these infrastructures and companies and training the next generation of people so that they can fill these roles and who knows what amazing ideas they're going to have. I mean, we were we're holding it down. I mean, in the health and genomic space. But I think there, just there are other people, I think that are really thinking about ideas in different directions. And I'm looking forward to learning from them. I mean, a lot and a lot of this applies to other things too, like repatriation of ancestors and museum settings and artifacts.Patty Well, we  just talked with Paulette Steeve's about about that. Yeah.KeoluOh mahalo nui for the opportunity, you know, for so long we've not been able to to make decisions or have major leadership roles. I appreciate you guys having me on here and the conversation. And I'd love to come back sometime so …Kerry Oh, well consider it done, we are going arrange that to happen. Consider it done. This was phenomenal. I really appreciate it.Patty Thank you. So thank you so much. I really thought this was so interesting.KerryThank you bye.PattyBaamaapii This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit medicinefortheresistance.substack.com

Sebastian Kennerknecht is a wildlife photographer and conservationist. He takes award-winning photographs of wild cats in their natural habitat and has twenty different species on his camera roll.

Sebastian Kennerknecht is a wildlife photographer and conservationist. He takes award-winning photographs of wild cats in their natural habitat and has twenty different species on his camera roll.

Psalm 146; 2 Kings 16; Kyrie Pantokrator --- Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/christanglican-hotsprings/support

Psalm 147; Isaiah 11; Mark 9:30-50 --- Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/christanglican-hotsprings/support

Growing up in the Finger Lakes of New York provided Tom with access to abundant nature, cementing a fascination with the natural world, and laying the roadmap for a career in conservation. As an adult, the majority of Tom's professional career has been in or around zoos. Starting as a Zookeeper, Tom has worked with a wide variety of animals, from hoof stock to crocodilian. As his career progressed, his interested in conservation of the species he worked with grew. Always interested in technology, the two paths crossed as Tom spent time in Central America working with indigenous populations. As the integrations of technology in conservation grew, so did Tom's aspirations and scale of work. Today, Tom is working on long term proof of impact, and greater donor transparency to achieve the UN Sustainable Development Goals. As Director of Programming and Conservation Action for the Seneca Park Zoo Society in Rochester NY, Tom is mostly focused on community projects in Borneo, Madagascar and Equatorial Africa. More info on the zoo projects can be seen at: SenecaParkZoo.org

A sack of pangolin scales, kilos upon kilos of elephant and rhino ivory, an orphaned baby chimp. For Ofir Drori and his team, these horrors are witnessed daily as they arrest wildlife traffickers throughout Equatorial Africa. In this episode of Talking Apes, we welcome wildlife activist and eco-journalist Ofir to discuss the EAGLE Network's fight to end illegal wildlife trafficking, CITES, and that one article that he's never quite finished. Talking Apes is the podcast that gets to the very heart of what is happening with and to apes like us. We explore the world of apes and primates with experts, conservationists, and passionate primate people from around the world. Join us as we unpack their weird and wonderful lives piece by piece.Talking Apes is made possible through generous support from listeners to nonprofit GLOBIO.org. Support the show (https://globio.org/donate)Support the show (https://globio.org/donate)

Freshly Squeezed Pulp’s Tar-Zaan of The Apes is a parody of the original novels by Edgar Rice Burroughs. After their family adventures on The Western Coast of Equatorial Africa, the Porter-Of The Apes family returns back to England. But it’s not long before trouble stirs again- this time in the Greystoke Estate’s financial sector. Tar-Zaan takes off for Opar in search of more treasure with a sly new ally, Werper the accountant. Meanwhile, Jane prepares for a mathematics colloquium presentation while Hazel, The Professor, Jack and Meriem track down mysterious happenings at the Paris World’s Fair. Will the Greystoke finances be resolved thanks to a trip to Opar? What all will happen at the World’s Fair? And did Werper show up a little too conveniently at Tar-Zaan’s doorstep? Tune into Freshly Squeezed Pulp’s The Adventures of Tar-Zaan Episode 5: The Jewels of Opar to find out! Media Credits for Episode 5: Special thanks to Berlin Atmospheres on YouTube their applause sound effect.

Suenan músicas que han sido protagonistas en la última edición de dos de los más importantes festivales europeos de músicas del mundo: Rudolstadt Festival, en Alemania, y Ethno Port, en Polonia. Escuchamos sones llegados del Oriente Medio, Colombia, África Ecuatorial, la Europa atlántica, la oriental... We listen to the music that has been protagonist in the last edition of two of the more important European world music festival: Rudolstadt Festival in Alemania and Ethno Port in Poland. And we find tunes coming from the Middle East, Colombia, Equatorial Africa, Atlantic and Eastern Europe.... Madame Baheux - Dilmano, dilbero - Rudolstadt Festival 2016 [VA] Lale Koçgün - Ser mala we da we da - Rudolstadt Festival 2016 [VA] Dagan Ensemble - Etüde - Rudolstadt Festival 2016 [VA] Paíto y los Gaiteros de Punta Brava - La gallineta - Rudolstadt Festival 2016 [VA] retroVISOR - La puerca - Rudolstadt Festival 2016 [VA] Las Áñez - Don Tomate - Rudolstadt Festival 2016 [VA] Ndima - Akaya - Rudolstadt Festival 2016 [VA] Germán López - Gorée - Rudolstadt Festival 2016 [VA] Pulsar Trio - Seven horses and a hornet - Rudolstadt Festival 2016 [VA] Startijenn - Strak ha pak - Rudolstadt Festival 2016 [VA] Ionic? Minune - Ca la acordeon - Ethno Port 2016 [VA] Banda Nella Nebbia - Diamond disco - Ethno Port 2016 [VA]

Book: One Little Spark!, available on Amazon.Author:Marty Sklar, former president of Imagineering and Disney Legend who has participated in the opening of all 11 Disney theme parks.Conversation:Total run time: 32:59.  My Dad, Walter, took part in the conversation also. 0:01 - Introduction and short background on Marty1:51 -  Marty and my Dad join in and Marty explains why he wrote the book6:08 - Listen to the Land song8:55 - Mickey's Ten Commandments10:11 - Trinidad Ruiz and cast member enthusiasm12:32 - Alex Haley and the Equatorial Africa pavilion15:06 - Herb Ryman and Ryman Arts17:34 - Fort Wilderness and River Country19:44 - Michael Eisner/Roy Disney feud22:47 - overcrowding at Disney parks24:56 - what happened to the "Disney's America" park26:59 - 1964 New York World's Fair30:17 - farewell and epilogueYour browser does not support this audio The embedded player works best in Google Chrome.  You can also download the mp3 by clicking here, and the podcast is available in iTunes.

Thanks for downloading WEDWay Radio, a show about Disney history, Disney parks and Touring. This is episode 110 - Lost Epcot Rediscovered On this episode of WEDWay Radio we take a look at a planned pavilion for Epcots World Showcase that never came to be: Equatorial Africa.  Not only was this going to the only pavilion that celebrated the diverse culture of Africa, but it was championed by a 20th century cultural icon, Alex Haley. In this episode we take a look at the planned attractions and overall design of the pavilion and discuss why it never came to be. This episode if brought to you by TouringPlans and by MEI and Mousefan Travel ------------------------------- Check out the show notes for this and every episode of WEDWay Radio at wedwayradio.com Follow us on Twitter, Facebook and Google+ Twitter: Twitter.com/WedwayRadio Facebook: Facebook.com/WedwayRadio Google+: bit.ly/Gpluswedway We want to thank you again for listening! 

Sample the sonic connections that exist throughout all cultures as you cross six continents and six centuries of musical history. With a World Passport, you may never know where your next port of call may be, but you can be sure you'll like it. In This Episode: Arabic music (1, 2) strongly influenced the neighboring Persian empire. As the armies of the Persia invaded parts of India, Arabic influence was further spread, affecting both modern (3) and folk (4) Indian musical traditions. As large numbers of Indian labor were brought into the British Caribbean during the 19th century, Jamaican Reggae (5, 6) was strongly influenced. As West Indian music spread throughout the Caribbean and into the Southern United States, it mingled with what would become Soul (7) and Gospel (8). The earliest forms of American Gospel included the Spiritual (9) and something called the “Gospel Blues” or a hybrid of early Gospel, Blues (11), and Jazz (10). As the first global music movement, Early Jazz also saw important developments in Europe (12). Early European Jazz drew heavily on an the classical European vocal tradition found in High Opera (13). As a result of colonialism, South African Gospel (14) shares a great deal with both Western vocalism and liturgy, . Culturally, Southern African pre- and post-colonial ties extend along the East African coast into Kenya (15). Kenya was also part of the wide band of Equatorial Africa that began a musical dialogue with Cuba (16) and the larger Afro-Caribbean world (17, 18). 1. Popular - Lebanon (Fairuz) 2. Popular - Morocco (Amina Alaoui) 3. Bhangra - India (Khalnayak) 4. Punjabi Festival Song - India 5. Dub Reggea - Jamaica 6. Reggae - Jamaica (Pat Kelly) 7. Soul - United States (Al Green, Mavis Staples) 8. Gospel - United States 9. Spiritual - United States (Mahalia Jackson) 10. Jazz - United States (Lil Greene) 11. Blues - United States (Bessie Smith) 12. Jazz - France (Josephine Baker) 13. Operatic Aria - Italy (Rossini: Amelita Galli Curci) 14. Gospel - South Africa 15. Popular - Kenya (Frank & His Sisters) 16. Son - Cuba (Trio Matamoros) 17. Cumbia - Colombia (Chico Cervantes) 18. Bolero - Mexico (Trio Los Ases)