Podcasts about iboga

Hilaritas host Mike Gathers does all the talking this episode as he describes his illuminating experiences with iboga psychedelic therapy. • • • Host Mike Gathers: https://linktr.ee/mgathers23 Producer/Engineer Richard Rasa: http://www.pelorian.com/rasa.html

Melissa Lavasani & Jay Kopelman join our podcast to discuss how psychedelic policy is actually moving in Washington, DC. Lavasani leads Psychedelic Medicine Coalition, a DC-based advocacy organization focused on educating federal officials and advancing legislation around psychedelic medicine. Kopelman is CEO of Mission Within Foundation, which provides scholarships for veterans and first responders seeking psychedelic-assisted therapy retreats, often outside the United States. The conversation centers on veterans, the VA, and why that system may be the first realistic federal pathway for psychedelic care. Early Themes Lavasani describes PMC's work on Capitol Hill, including hosting events that bring lawmakers, staffers, and advocates into the same room. Her focus is steady engagement. In DC, progress often happens through repeated conversations, not headlines. Kopelman shares his background as a Marine and how his own psychedelic-assisted therapy experience led him to Mission Within. The foundation has funded more than 250 scholarships for veterans and first responders seeking treatment for PTSD, mild traumatic brain injury, depression, and addiction. They connect this work to pending veteran-focused legislation and explain why the VA matters. As a closed health system, the VA can pilot programs, gather data, and refine protocols without the pressures of private healthcare markets. Core Insights A recent Capitol Hill gathering, For Veteran Society, brought together members of Congress and leaders from the psychedelic caucus. Lavasani describes candid feedback from lawmakers. The message was clear: coordinate messaging, avoid fragmentation, and move while bipartisan interest remains. Veteran healthcare is not framed as the final goal. It is a starting point. If psychedelic therapies can demonstrate safety and effectiveness within the VA, broader adoption becomes more plausible. Kopelman raises operational realities that must be addressed: Standardized safety protocols across providers Integration support, not medication alone Clear training pathways for clinicians Real-world data beyond tightly screened clinical trials They also address recent negative headlines involving ibogaine treatment abroad. Kopelman emphasizes the need for shared learning across providers, especially when adverse events occur. Lavasani argues that inconsistency within the ecosystem can slow federal confidence. Later Discussion and Takeaways The discussion widens to federal momentum around addiction and mental health. Lavasani notes that new funding initiatives signal growing openness to innovative treatment models, even if psychedelics are not named explicitly in every announcement. Both guests stress that policy moves slowly by design. Meetings, follow-ups, and relationship building often matter more than public statements. For clinicians, researchers, operators, and advocates, the takeaways are direct: Veterans are likely the first federal pathway Public education remains essential Safety standards must be shared and transparent Integration and workforce development need attention now If psychedelic medicine enters federal systems, infrastructure will determine success. Frequently Asked Questions What do Melissa Lavasani & Jay Kopelman say about VA psychedelic policy? They argue that veteran-focused legislation offers a realistic first federal pathway for psychedelic-assisted care. Is ibogaine currently available through the VA? No. They discuss ibogaine in the context of private retreats and future possibilities, not an existing VA program. Why do Melissa Lavasani & Jay Kopelman emphasize coordination? Lawmakers respond more positively when advocates present aligned messaging and clear priorities. What safety issues are discussed by Melissa Lavasani & Jay Kopelman? They highlight the need for standardized screening, monitoring, integration support, and transparent review of adverse events. Closing Melissa Lavasani & Jay Kopelman provide a grounded look at how psychedelic policy develops inside federal systems. Their message is practical: veterans may be the first lane, but long-term success depends on coordination, safety standards, and sustained engagement. Closing This episode captures a real-time view of how federal policy could shape the next phase of the psychedelic resurgence, especially through veteran-facing legislation and VA infrastructure. Melissa Lavasani & Jay Kopelman argue that coordination, public education, and shared safety standards will shape whether access expands with credibility and care. Transcript Joe Moore: [00:00:00] Hello everybody. Welcome back to Psychedelics Today. Today we have two guests, um, got Melissa Sani from Psychedelic Medicine Coalition. We got Jake Pelman from Mission Within Foundation. We're gonna talk about I bga I became policy on a recent, uh, set of meetings in Washington, DC and, uh, all sorts of other things I'm sure. Joe Moore: But thank you both for joining me. Melissa Lavasani: Thanks for having us. Jay Kopelman: Yeah, it's a pleasure. Thanks. Joe Moore: Yeah. Um, Melissa, I wanna have you, uh, jump in. First. Can you tell us a little bit about, uh, your work and what you do at PMC? Melissa Lavasani: Yeah, so Psychedelic Medicine Coalition is, um, the only DC based Washington DC based advocacy organization dedicated to the advancing the issue of psychedelics, um, and making sure the federal government has the education they need, um, and understands the issue inside out so that they can generate good policy around, around psychedelic medicines. Melissa Lavasani: [00:01:00] Uh, we. Host Hill events. We host other convenings. Our big event every year is the Federal Summit on psychedelic medicine. Um, that's going to be May 14th this year. Um, where we talk about kinda the pressing issues that need to be talked about, uh, with government officials in the room, um, so that we can incrementally move this forward. Melissa Lavasani: Um, our presence here in Washington DC is, is really critical for this issue's success because, um, when we're talking about psychedelic medicines, um, from the federal government pers perspective, you know, they are, they are the ones that are going to initiate the policies that create a healthcare system that can properly facilitate these medicines and make sure, um, patient safety is a priority. Melissa Lavasani: And there's guardrails on this. And, um, you know, there, it's, it's really important that we have. A home base for this issue in Washington DC just [00:02:00] because, uh, this is very complicated as a lot of your viewers probably understand, and, you know, this can get lost in the mix of all the other issues that, um, lawmakers in DC are focused on right now. Melissa Lavasani: And we need to keep that consistent presence here so that this continues to be a priority for members of Congress. Joe Moore: Mm. I love this. And Jay, can you tell us a bit about yourself and mission within Foundation? Jay Kopelman: Yeah, sure. Joe, thanks. Uh, I, I am the CEO of Mission within Foundation. Prior to this, most of my adult life was spent in the military as a Marine. Jay Kopelman: And I came to this. Role after having, uh, a psychedelic assisted therapy experience myself at the mission within down in Mexico, which is where pretty much we all go. Um, we are here to help [00:03:00] provide, uh, access for veterans and first responders to be able to attend psychedelic assisted therapy retreats to treat issues like mild TBI, post-traumatic stress disorder, uh, depression, sometimes addiction at, at a very low level. Jay Kopelman: Um, and, and so we've, we've been doing this for a little more than a year now and have provided 250 plus scholarships to veterans and first responders to be able to access. These retreats and these, these lifesaving medicines. Um, we're also partnered, uh, you may or may not know with Melissa at Psychedelic Medicine Coalition to help advance education and policy, specifically the innovative, uh, therapy Centers of Excellence Act [00:04:00] that Melissa has worked for a number of years on now to bring to both Houses of Congress. Joe Moore: Thank you for that. Um, so let's chat a little bit about what this event was that just, uh, went down, uh, what, what was it two weeks ago at this point? Melissa Lavasani: Yeah. Yeah. It's called For Veteran Society and it's all, um, there's a lot of dialogue on Capitol Hill about veterans healthcare and psychedelics, but where I've been frustrated is that, you know, it was just a lot of. Melissa Lavasani: Talk about what the problems are and not a lot of talk about like how we actually propel things forward. Um, so it, at that event, I thought it was really important and we had three members of Congress there, um, Morgan Latrell, who has been a champion from day one and his time in Congress, um, having gone through the experience himself, um, [00:05:00] at Mission within, um, and then the two chairs of the psychedelic caucus, uh, Lou Correa and Jack Bergman. Melissa Lavasani: And we really got down to the nitty gritty of like w like why this has taken so long and you know, what is actually happening right now? What are the possibilities and what the roadblocks are. And it was, I thought it was a great conversation. Um, we had an interesting kind of dynamic with Latres is like a very passionate about this issue in particular. Melissa Lavasani: Um, I think it was, I think it was really. A great event. And, you know, two days later, Jack Bergman introduced his new bill for the va. Um, so it was kind of like the precursor to that bill getting introduced. And we're just excited for more and more conversations about how the government can gently guide this issue to success. Joe Moore: Hmm. Yeah. [00:06:00] That's fantastic. Um, yeah, I was a little bummed I couldn't make it, but next time, I hope. But I've heard a lot of good things and, um, it's, it sounded like there was some really important messages in, in terms of like feedback from legislators. Yeah. Yeah. Could you speak to that? Melissa Lavasani: Yeah, I mean, I think when, uh, representative Latrell was speaking, he really impressed on us a couple things. Melissa Lavasani: Um, first is that, you know, they really kind of need the advocates to. Coordinate, collaborate and come up with like a, a strategic plan, you know, without public education. Um, talking to members of Congress about this issue is, is really difficult. You know, like PMC is just one organization. We're very little mission within, very little, um, you know, we're all like, kind of new in navigating, um, this not so new issue, but new to Washington DC [00:07:00] issue. Melissa Lavasani: Um, without that public education as a baseline, uh, it's, it's, you have to spend a lot of time educating members of Congress. You know, that's like one of our things is, you know, we have to, we don't wanna tell Congress what direction to go to. We wanna provide them the information so they understand it very intimately and know how to navigate through things. Melissa Lavasani: Um, and secondly. Um, he got pretty frank with us and said, you know, we've got one cha one chance at this issue. And it's like, that's, that's kind of been like my talking point since I started. PMC is like, you have a very limited window, um, when these kind of issues pop up and they're new and they're fresh and you have a lot of the veteran community coming out and talking about it. Melissa Lavasani: And there's a lot of energy there. But now is the time to really move forward, um, with some real legislation that can be impactful. Um, but, you know, we've gotta [00:08:00] be careful. We, we forget, I think sometimes those of us who are in the ecosystem forget that our level of knowledge about these medicines and a lot of us have firsthand experience, um, with these drugs and, and our own healing journeys is, um, we forget that there is a public out there that doesn't have the level of knowledge that we all have. Melissa Lavasani: And, um. We gotta make sure that we're sticking to the right elements of, of, of what needs to happen. We need to be sure that our talking points are on track and we're not getting sideways about anything and going down roads that we don't need to talk about. It's why, um, you know, PMC is very focused on, um, moving forward veteran legislation right now. Melissa Lavasani: Not because we're a veteran organization, but because we're, we see this long-term policy track here. Um, we know where we want to get [00:09:00] to, um. Um, and watching other healthcare issues kind of come up and then go through the VA healthcare system, I think it's a really unique opportunity, um, to utilize the VA as this closed system, the biggest healthcare system in the country to evaluate, uh, how psychedelics operate within systems like that. Melissa Lavasani: And, you know, before they get into, um, other healthcare systems. What do we need to fix? What do we need to pay attention to? What's something that we're paying too much attention to that doesn't necessarily need that much attention? So it's, um, it's a real opportunity to look at psychedelic medicines within a healthcare system and obviously continue to gather the data. Melissa Lavasani: Um, Bergman's Bill emerging, uh, expanding veteran access to emerging treatments. Um, not only mandates the research, it gives the VA authority for this, uh, for running trials and, and creating programs around psychedelic medicines. But also, [00:10:00] one of the great things about it, I think, is it provides an on-ramp for veterans that don't necessarily qualify for clinical trials. Melissa Lavasani: You know, I think that's one of the biggest criticisms of clinical trials is like you're cre you're creating a vacuum for people and people don't live in a vacuum. So we don't necessarily know what psychedelics are gonna look like in real life. Um, but with this expanding veteran access bill that Bergman introduced, it provides the VA an opportunity to provide this access under. Melissa Lavasani: Um, in a, in a safe container with medical supervision while collecting data, um, while ensuring that the veteran that is going through this process has the support systems that it needs. So, um, you know, I think that there's a really unique opportunity here, and like Latrell said, like, we've got one shot at this. Melissa Lavasani: We have people's attention in Congress. Um, now's the time to start acting, and let's be really considerate and thoughtful about what we're doing with it. Joe Moore: Thanks for that, Melissa and Jay, how, [00:11:00] anything to add there on kind of your takeaways from the this, uh, last visit in dc? Jay Kopelman: Yeah, I, I think that Melissa highlighted it really well and there, there were a couple other things that I, I think, you know, you could kind of tie it all together with some other issues that we face in this country, uh, and that. Jay Kopelman: Uh, representative Correa brought up as well, but one of the things I wanted to go back and say is that veterans have kind of led this movement already, right? So, so it's a, it's a good jumping off point, right? That it's something people from both sides of the aisle, from any community in America can get behind. Jay Kopelman: You know, if you think about it, uh, in World War ii, you know, we had a million people serving our population was like, not even 200 million, but now [00:12:00] we have a population of 330 million, and at any given time there might be a million people in uniform, including the Reserve and the National Guard. So it's, it, it's an easy thing to get behind this small part of the population that is willing to sign that contract. Jay Kopelman: Where you are saying, yeah, I'm going to defend my country, possibly at the risk of my l my own life. So that's the first thing. The other thing is that the VA being a closed health system, and they don't have shareholders to answer to, they can take some risks, they can be innovative and be forward thinking in the ways that some other healthcare systems can't. Jay Kopelman: And so they have a perfect opportunity to show that they truly care for their veterans, which don't, I'm not saying they don't, but this would be an [00:13:00] opportunity to show that carrot at a whole different level. Uh, it would allow them to innovate and be a leader in something as, uh, as our friend Jim Hancock will say, you know. Jay Kopelman: When he went to the Naval Academy, they had the world's best shipbuilding program. Why doesn't the VA have the world's best care program for things like TBI and PTSD, which affects, you know, 40 something percent of all veterans, right? So, so there's, there's an opportunity here for the VA to lead from the front. Jay Kopelman: Um, the, these medicines provide, you know, reasonably lasting care where it's kind of a one and done. Whereas with the current systems, the, you know, and, and [00:14:00] again, not to denigrate the VA in any way, they're doing the best job they can with the tools in their toolbox, right? But maybe it's time for a trip to Home Depot. Jay Kopelman: Let's get some new tools. And have some new ways of fixing what's broken, which is really the way of doing things. It's not, veterans aren't broken, we are who we are. Um, but it's a, it's a way to fix what isn't working. So I, I think that, you know, given there's tremendous veteran homelessness still, you know, addiction issues, all these things that do translate to the population at large are things that can be worked on in this one system, the va that can then be shown to have efficacy, have good data, have [00:15:00] good outcomes, and, and take it to the population at large. Joe Moore: Mm-hmm. Brilliant. Thanks for that. And so there was another thing I wanted to pivot to, which is some of the recent press. So we've, um, seen a little bit of press around some, um, in one instance, some bad behavior in Mexico that a FI put out Americans thrive again, put out. And then another case there was a, a recent fatality. Joe Moore: And I think, um, both are tragic. Like we shouldn't be having to deal with this at this point. Um, but there's a lot of things that got us here. Um, it's not necessarily the operator's fault entirely, um, or even at all, honestly, like some medical interventions just carry a lot of risk. Like think, think about like, uh, how risky bypass surgery was in the nineties, right? Joe Moore: Like people were dying a lot from medical interventions and um, you know, this is a major intervention, uh, ibogaine [00:16:00] and also a lot of promise. To help people quite a bit. Um, but as of right now, there's, there's risk. And part of that risk, in my opinion, comes from the inability of organizations to necessarily collaborate. Joe Moore: Like there's no kind of convening body, sitting in the middle, allowing, um, for, and facilitating really good data sharing and learnings. Um, and I don't, I don't necessarily see an organization stepping up and being the, um, the convener for that kind of work. I've heard rumors that something's gonna happen there, and I'm, I'm hopeful I'll always wanna share my opinion on that. Joe Moore: But yeah. I don't know. Jay, from your perspective, is there anything you want to kind of speak to about, uh, these two recent incidents that Americans for Iboga kind of publicized recently? Jay Kopelman: Yeah, so I, I'll echo your sentiment, of course, that these are tragic incidents. Um, and I, [00:17:00] I think that at least in the case of the death at Ambio, AMBIO has done a very good job of talking about it, right? Jay Kopelman: They've been very honest with the information that they have. And like you said, there are risks inherent to these medicines, and it's like anything else in medicine, there are going to be risks. You know, when I went through, uh, when I, when I went through chemo, you know, there were, there are risks. You know, you don't feel well, you get sick. Jay Kopelman: Um, and, and it. There are processes in place to counter that when it happens. And there are processes and, and procedures and safety protocols in place when caring for somebody going through an ibogaine [00:18:00] journey. Uh, when I did it, we had EKG echocardiogram. You're on a heart monitor the entire time they push magnesium via iv. Jay Kopelman: You have to provide a urinalysis sample to make sure that there is nothing in your system that is going to potentially harm you. During the ibogaine, they have, uh, a cardiologist who is monitoring the heart monitors throughout the ibogaine experience. So the, the safety protocols are there. I think it's, I think it's just a matter of. Jay Kopelman: Standardizing them across all, all providers, right? Like, that would be a good thing if people would talk to one another. Um, as, as in any system, right? You've gotta have [00:19:00] some collaboration. You've gotta have standardization, you know, so, you know, they're not called standard operating procedures for nothing. Jay Kopelman: That means that in a, you know, in a given environment, everybody does things the same way. It's true in Navy and Marine Corps, air Force, army Aviation, they have standard operating procedures for every single aircraft. So if you fly, let's say the F 35 now, right? Because it's flown by the Navy, the Marine Corps, and the Air Force. Jay Kopelman: The, the emergency procedures in that airplane are standardized across all three services, so you should have the same, or, you know, with within a couple of different words, the same procedures and processes [00:20:00] across all the providers, right? Like maybe in one document you're gonna change, happy to glad and small dog to puppy, but it's still pretty much the, the same thing. Jay Kopelman: And as a service that provides scholarships to people to go access these medicines and go to these retreats, you know, my criteria is that the, this provider has to be safe. Number one, safety's paramount. It's always gotta be very safe. It should, it has to be effective. And you know, once you have those two things in place, then I have a comfort level saying, okay, yeah, we'll work with this provider. Jay Kopelman: But until those standardized processes are in place, you'll probably see these one-off things. I mean, some providers have been doing this longer than others and have [00:21:00] really figured out, you know, they've, they've cracked the code and, you know, sharing that across the spectrum would be good. Um, but just when these things happen, having a clearing house, right, where everybody can come together and talk about it, you know, like once the facts are known because. Jay Kopelman: To my knowledge, we still don't know all the facts. Like as, you know, as horrible as this is, you still have to talk about like an, has an autopsy been performed? What was found in the patient's system? You know, there, there are things there that we don't know. So we need to, we need to know that before we can start saying, okay, well this is how we can fix that, because we just don't know. Jay Kopelman: And, you know, to their credit, you know, Amio has always been safe to, to the, to the best of my knowledge. You know, I, [00:22:00] I haven't been to Ambio myself, but people that I have worked with have been there. They have observed, they have seen the process. They believe it's safe, and I trust their opinion because they've seen it elsewhere as well. Jay Kopelman: So yeah, having, having that one place where we can all come together when this happens, it, it's almost like it should be mandatory. In the military when there's a training accident, we, you know, we would have to have what's called a safety standout. And you don't do that again for a little while until you figure out, okay, how are we going to mitigate that happening again? Jay Kopelman: Believe me, you can go overboard and we don't want to do that. Like, we don't wanna just stop all care, but maybe stop detox for a week and then come back to it. [00:23:00] Joe Moore: Yeah. A dream would be, let's get like the, I don't know, 10, 20 most popular, uh, or well-known operators together somewhere and just do like a three day debrief. Joe Moore: Hey, everybody, like, here's what we see. Let's work on this together. You know how normal medicine works. And this is, it's hard because this is not necessarily, um, something people feel safe about in America talking about 'cause it's illicit here. Um, I don't understand necessarily how the operations, uh, relate to each other in Mexico, but I think that's something to like the public should dig into. Joe Moore: Like, what, what is this? And I, I'll start digging into that. Um, I, I asked a question recently of somebody like, is there some sort of like back channel signal everybody's using and there's no clear Yes. You know? Um, I think it would be good. That's just a [00:24:00] start, you know, that's like, okay, we can actually kind of say hi and watch out for this to each other. Jay Kopelman: It's not like we don't all know one another, right? Joe Moore: Yes. Jay Kopelman: Like at least three operators we're represented. At the Aspen Ibogaine meeting. So like that could be, and I think there was a panel kind of loosely related to this during Aspen Ibogaine meeting, but Joe Moore: mm-hmm. Jay Kopelman: It, you know, have a breakout where the operators can go sit down and kind of compare notes. Joe Moore: Right. Yeah. Melissa, do you have any, uh, comments on this thread here? And I, I put you on mute if you didn't see that. Um, Melissa Lavasani: all right, I'm off mute. Um, yeah, I think that Jay's hits the nail on the head with the collaboration thing. Um, I think that it's just a [00:25:00] problem across the entire ecosystem, and I think that's just a product of us being relatively new and upcoming field. Melissa Lavasani: Um, uh, it's a product of, you know. Our fundraising community is really small, so organizations feel like they are competing for the same dollars, even though their, their goals are all the same, they have different functions. Um, I think with time, I mean, let's be honest, like if we don't start collaborating and, and the federal government's moving forward, the federal government's gonna coordinate for us. Melissa Lavasani: And not, that might not necessarily be a bad thing, but, you know, we understand this issue to a whole other level that the federal government doesn't, and they're not required to understand it deeply. They just need to know how to really move forward with it the proper way. Um, but I think that it. It's really essential [00:26:00] that we all have this come together moment here so we can avoid things. Melissa Lavasani: Uh, I mean, no one's gonna die from bad advocacy. So like I've, I have a bit of an easier job. Um, but it can a, a absolutely stall efforts, um, to move things forward in Washington DC when, um, one group is saying one thing, another group is saying another thing, like, we're not quite at a point yet where we can have multiple lines of conversation and multiple things moving forward. Melissa Lavasani: Um, you know, for PMC, it's like, just let's get the first thing across the finish line. And we think that is, um, veteran healthcare. And, um, I know there's plenty of other groups out there that, that want the same thing. So, you know, I always, the reason why I put on the Federal Summit last year was I kind of hit my breaking point with a lack of collaboration and I wanted to just bring everyone in the same room and say like, all right, here are the things that we need to talk about. Melissa Lavasani: And I think the goal for this year is, um. To bring people in the same room and say, we talked about [00:27:00] we scratched the surface last year and this is where we need to really put our efforts into. And this is where the opportunities are. Um, I think that is going to, that's going to show the federal government if we can organize ourselves, that they need to take this issue really seriously. Melissa Lavasani: Um, I don't think we've done a great job at that thus far, but I think there's still plenty of time for us to get it together. Um, and I'm hoping with these two, uh, VA bills that are in the house right now and Senate is, is putting together their version of these two bills, um, so that they can move in tandem with each other. Melissa Lavasani: I think that, you know, there's an opportunity here for. Us to show the federal government as an ecosystem, Hey, we, we are so much further ahead and you know, this is what we've organized and here's how we can help you, um, that would make them buy into this issue a bit more and potentially move things forward faster. Melissa Lavasani: Uh, at this point in time, it's, I think that, [00:28:00] you know, psychedelics aren't necessarily the taboo thing that they, they used to be, but there's certainly places that need attention. Um, there's certainly conversations that need to be had, and like I said, like PMC is just one organization that can do this. Um, we can certainly organize and drive forward collaboration, but I, like we alone, cannot cover all this ground and we need the subject matter experts to collaborate with us so we can, you know, once we get in the door, we wanna bring the experts in to talk to these officials about it. Melissa Lavasani: So I. I, I really want listeners to really think about us as a convener of sorts when it comes to federal policy. Um, and you know, I think when, like for example, in the early eighties, a lot of people have made comparisons to the issue of psychedelics to the issue of AIDS research and how you have in a subject matter that's like extremely taboo and a patient population that the government [00:29:00] quite honestly didn't really care about in the early eighties. Melissa Lavasani: But what they did as an ecosystem is really organized themselves, get very clear on what they wanted the federal government to do. And within a matter of a couple years, uh, AIDS research funding was a thing that was happening. And what that, what that did was that ripple effect turned that into basically finding new therapies for something that we thought was a death, death sentence before. Melissa Lavasani: So I think. We just need to look at things in the past that have been really successful, um, and, and try to take the lessons from all of these issues and, and move forward with psychedelics. Joe Moore: Love that. And yes, we always need to be figuring out efficient approaches and where it has been successful in the past is often, um, an opportunity to mimic and, and potentially improve on that. Melissa Lavasani: Yeah. Jay Kopelman: One, one thing I think it's important to add to this part of the conversation is that, [00:30:00] you know, Melissa pointed out there are a number of organizations that are essentially doing the same thing. Jay Kopelman: Um, you know, I like to think we do things a little bit differently at Mission within Foundation in that we don't target any one specific type of service member. We, we work with all veterans. We work with first responders, but. What that leads to is that there are, as far as I've seen, nothing but good intentioned people in this space. Jay Kopelman: You know, people who really care about their patient population, they care about healing, they are trying to do a good job, and more importantly, they're trying to do good. Right? It, it, I think they all see the benefit down the road that this has, [00:31:00] pardon me, not just for veterans, but for society as a whole. Jay Kopelman: And, and ultimately that's where I would like to see this go. You know, I, I would love to see the VA take this. Take up this mantle and, and run with it and provide great data, great outcomes. You know, we are doing some data collection ourselves at Mission within foundation, albeit anecdotal based on surveys given before and after retreats. Jay Kopelman: But we're also working with, uh, Greg Fonzo down at UT Austin on a brain study he's doing that will have 40 patients in it when it's all said and done. And I think we have two more guys to put through that. Uh, and then we'll hit the 40. So there, there's a lot of good here that's being done by some really, really good people who've been doing this for a long time [00:32:00] and want to want nothing more than to, to see this. Jay Kopelman: Come to, come full circle so that we can take care of many, many, many people. Um, you know, like I say, I, I wanna work myself out of a job here. I, I just, I would love to see this happen and then I, you know, I don't have to send guys to Mexico to do this. They can go to their local VA and get the care that they need. Jay Kopelman: Um, but one thing that I don't think we've touched on yet, or regarding that is that the VA isn't designed for that. So it's gonna be a pretty big lift to get the right types of providers into the va with the knowledge, right, with the institutional knowledge of how this should be done, what is safe, what is effective, um, and then it, it's not just providing these medicines to [00:33:00] people and sending them home. Jay Kopelman: You don't just do that, you've gotta have the right therapists on the backend who can provide the integration coaching to the folks who are receiving these medicines. And I'm not just talking, I bga, even with MDMA and psilocybin, you should have a proper period of integration. It helps you to understand how this is going to affect you, what it, what the experience really meant, you know, because it's very difficult sometimes to just interpret it on your own. Jay Kopelman: And so what the experience was and what it meant to you. And, and so it will take some time to spin all that up. But once it's, once it's in place, you know, the sky's the limit. I think. Joe Moore: Kinda curious Jay, about what's, what's going on with Ibogaine at the federal level. Is there anything at VA right now? [00:34:00] Jay Kopelman: At the va? No, not with ibogaine. And, you know, uh, we, we send people specifically for IBOGAINE and five MEO, right? And, and so that, that doesn't preclude my interest in seeing this legislation passed, right? Jay Kopelman: Because it, it will start with something like MDMA or psilocybin, but ultimately it could grow to iboga, right? It the think about the cost savings at, at the va, even with psilocybin, right? Where you could potentially treat somebody with a very inexpensive dose of psilocybin or, or iboga one time, and then you, you don't have to treat them again. Jay Kopelman: Now, if I were, uh, you know, a VA therapist who's not trained in psychedelic trauma therapy. I might be worried [00:35:00] about job security, but it's like with anything, right? Like ultimately it will open pathways for new people to get that training or the existing people to get that training and, and stay on and do that work. Jay Kopelman: Um, which only adds another arrow to their quiver as far as I'm concerned, because this is coming and we're gonna need the people. It's just like ai, right? Like ai, yeah. Some people are gonna lose some jobs initially, and that's unfortunate. But productivity ultimately across all industries will increase and new jobs will be created as a result of that. Jay Kopelman: I mean, I was watching Squawk Box one morning. They were talking about the AI revolution and how there's gonna be a need for 500,000 electricians to. Build these systems that are going to work with the AI [00:36:00] supercomputers and, and so, Joe Moore: mm-hmm. Jay Kopelman: Where, where an opportunity may be lost. I think several more can be gained going forward. Melissa Lavasani: And just to add on what Jay just said there, there's nothing specific going on with Ibogaine at, at the va, but I think this administration is, is taking a real look at addiction in particular. Uh, they just launched, uh, a new initiative, uh, that's really centered on addiction treatments called the Great American Recovery. Melissa Lavasani: And, um, they're dedicating a hundred million dollars towards treating addiction as like a chronic treatable disease and not necessarily a law enforcement issue. So, um, in that initiative there will be federal grant programs for prevention and treatment and recovery. And, um, while this isn't just for psychedelic medicines, uh, I think it's a really great opportunity for the discussion of psychedelics to get elevated to the White House. Melissa Lavasani: Um, [00:37:00] there's also, previous to this announcement last week from the White House, there's been a hundred million dollars that was dedicated at, um, at ARPA h, which is. The advanced research projects, uh, agency for healthcare, um, and that is kind of an agency that's really focused on forward looking, um, treatments and technologies, uh, for, um, a, a whole slew of. Melissa Lavasani: Of issues, but this a hundred million dollars is dedicated to mental health and addiction. So there's a lot of opportunity there as well. So we, while I think, you know, some people are talking about, oh, we need a executive order on Iboga, it's like, well, you know, the, the president is thinking, um, about, you know, what issues can land with his, uh, voting block. Melissa Lavasani: And I think it's, I don't think we necessarily need a specific executive order on Iboga to call this a success. It's like, let's look at what, [00:38:00] um, what's just been announced from the White House. They're, they're all in on. Thinking creatively and finding, uh, new solutions for this. And this is kind of, this aligns with, um, HHS secretaries, uh, Robert F. Melissa Lavasani: Kennedy Junior's goals when he took on this, this role of Health Secretary. Um, addiction has been a discussion that, you know, he has personal, um, a personal tie to from his own experience. And, um, I think when this administration started, there was so much like fervor around the, the dialogue of like, everyone's talking about psychedelics. Melissa Lavasani: It was Secretary Kennedy, it was, uh, secretary Collins at the va. It was FDA Commissioner Marty Macari. And I think that there's like a lot of undue frustration within folks 'cause um, you don't necessarily snap your fingers and change happens in Washington dc This is not the city for that. And it's intentionally designed to move slow so that we can avoid really big mistakes. Melissa Lavasani: Um. [00:39:00] I think we're a year into this administration and these two announcements are, are pretty huge considering, um, you know, the, we, there are known people within domestic policy council that don't, aren't necessarily supportive of psychedelic medicine. So there's a really amazing progress here, and frustrating as it might be to, um, just be waiting for this administration to make some major move. Melissa Lavasani: I think they are making major moves like for Washington, DC These, these are major moves and we just gotta figure out how we can, um, take these initiatives and apply them to the issue of psychedelic medicines. Joe Moore: Thanks, Melissa. Um, yeah, it is, it is interesting like the amount of fervor there was at the beginning. You know, we had, uh. Kind of one of my old lawyers, Matt Zorn, jumped in with the administration. Right. And, um, you know, it was, uh, really cool to [00:40:00] see and hopeful how much energy was going on. It's been a little quiet, kind of feels like a black box a little bit, but I, you know, there was, Melissa Lavasani: that's on me. Melissa Lavasani: Maybe I, we need to be more out in public about like, what's actually happening, because I feel like, like day in and day out, it's just been, you gotta just mm-hmm. Like have that constant beat with the government. Mm-hmm. And, um, it's, it's, it's not the photo ops on the hill, it's the conversations that you have. Melissa Lavasani: It's the dinner parties you go to, it's the fundraisers you attend, you know? Mm-hmm. That's why I, I kind of have to like toot my own horn with PCs. Like, we need to be present here at, at not only on the Hill, not only at the White House, but kind of in the ecosystem of Washington DC itself. There's, it's, there are like power players here. Melissa Lavasani: There are people that are connected that can get things done, like. I mean, the other last week we had a big snow storm. I walked over to my friend's house, um, to have like a little fire sesh with them and our kids, and his next door neighbor came over. He was a member of Congress. I talked about the VA bills, like [00:41:00] we're reaching out to his office now, um, to get them, um, up to speed and hopefully get their co-sponsorship for, uh, the two VA bills. Melissa Lavasani: So, I mean, it, the little conversations you have here are just as important as the big ones with the photo ops. So, um, it, it's, it's really like, you know, building up that momentum and, and finding that time where you can really strike and make something happen. Joe Moore: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Jay, anything to add there? Jay Kopelman: Yeah, I was just gonna say that, you know, I, I, I think the fervor is still there, right? Jay Kopelman: But real life happens. Melissa Lavasani: Yes, Jay Kopelman: yes. And gets in the way, right? So, Melissa Lavasani: yeah, Jay Kopelman: I, I can't imagine how many issues. Secretary Kennedy has every day much less the president. Like there's so many things that they are dealing with on a daily basis, right? It, we, we just have to work to be the squeaky wheel in, in the right way, right. Jay Kopelman: [00:42:00] With the, with the right information at the right time. Like just inundating one of these organizations with noise, it's then it be with Informa, it just becomes noise, right? It it, it doesn't help. So when we have things to say that are meaningful and impactful, we do, and Melissa does an amazing job of that. Jay Kopelman: But, you know, it, it takes time. You know, it's, you know, we're not, this is, this is like turning an aircraft carrier, not a ski boat. Melissa Lavasani: Yeah, Joe Moore: yeah, absolutely. Um, and. It's, it's understandably frustrating, I think for the public and the psychedelic public in particular because we see all this hope, you know, we continue to get frustrated at politics. It's nothing new, right? Um, and we, we wanna see more people get well immediately. [00:43:00] And I, I kind of, Jay from the veteran perspective, I do love the kind of loud voices like, you're making me go to Mexico for this. Joe Moore: I did that and you're making me leave the country for the thing that's gonna fix me. Like, no way. And barely a recognition that this is a valid treatment. You know, like, you know, that is complicated given how medicine is structured here domestically. But it's also, let's face the facts, like the drug war kind of prevented us from being able to do this research in the first place. Joe Moore: You know? Thanks Nixon. And like, how do we actually kind of correct course and say like, we need to spend appropriately on science here so we can heal our own people, including veterans and everybody really. It's a, it's a dire situation out there. Jay Kopelman: Yeah. It, it really is. Um, you know, we were talking briefly about addicts, right? Jay Kopelman: And you know, it's not sexy. People think of addicts as people who are weak-minded, [00:44:00] right? They don't have any self-control. Um, but, but look at, look at the opioid crisis, right? That Brian Hubbard was fighting against in Kentucky for all those years. That that was something that was given to the patient by a doctor that they then became dependent on, and a lot of people died from that. Jay Kopelman: And, and so you, you know, it's, I I don't think it's fair to just put all addicts in a box. Just like it's not fair to put all veterans in a box. Just like it's not fair for doctors, put all their patients in a box. We're individuals. We, we have individual needs. Our, our health is very individual. Like, I, I don't think I should be put in the same box as every other 66-year-old that my doctor sees. Jay Kopelman: It's not fair. [00:45:00] You know, if you, if you took my high school classmates and put us all in a photo, we're all gonna have different needs, right? Like, some look like they're 76, not 66. Some look like they're 56. Not like they're, we, we do things differently. We live our lives differently. And the same is true of addicts. Jay Kopelman: They come to addiction from different places. Not everybody decides they want to just try heroin at a party, and all of a sudden they're addicted. It happens in, in different ways, you know, and the whole fentanyl thing has been so daggum nefarious, right? You know, pushing fentanyl into marijuana. Jay Kopelman: Somebody's smoking a joint and all of a sudden they're addicted to fentanyl or they die. Melissa Lavasani: I think we're having a, Jay Kopelman: it's, it's just not fair to, to say everybody in this pot is the same, or everybody in this one is the same. We have [00:46:00] to look at it differently. Joe Moore: Yeah. I like to zoom one level out and kind of talk about, um, just how hurt we are as a country, as a world really, but as a country specifically, and how many people are out of work for so many. Joe Moore: Difficult reasons and away from their families for so many kind of tragic reasons. And if we can get people back to their families and back to work, a lot of these things start to self-correct, but we have to like have those interventions where we can heal folks and, and get them back. Um, yeah. And you know, everything from trauma, uh, in childhood, you know, adulthood, combat, whatever it is. Joe Moore: Like these things can put people on the sidelines. And Jay, to your point, like you get knee surgery and all of a sudden you're, you know, two years later you're on the hunt for Fentanyl daily. You know, that's tough. It's really tough. Carl Hart does a good job talking about this kind of addiction pipeline and [00:47:00] a few others do as well. Joe Moore: But it's just, you know, kind of putting it in a moral failure bucket. It's not great. I was chatting with somebody about, um, veterans, it's like you come back and you're like, what's gonna make me feel okay right now? And it's not always alcohol. Um, like this is the first thing that made me feel okay, because there's not great treatments and there's, there's a lot of improvements in this kind of like bringing people back from the field that needs to happen. Joe Moore: In my opinion. I, it seems to be shared by a lot of people, but yeah, there's, it's, it's, IGA is gonna be great. It's gonna be really important. I really can't wait for it to be at scale appropriately, but there's a lot of other things we need to fix too, um, so that we can just, you know, not have so many people we need to, you know, spend so much money healing. Joe Moore: Mm-hmm. Jay Kopelman: Yeah. You ahead with that. We don't need the president to sign an executive order to automatically legalize Ibogaine. Right. But it would be nice if he would reschedule it so that [00:48:00] then then researchers could do this research on a larger scale. You know, we could, we could now get some real data that would show the efficacy. Jay Kopelman: And it could be done in a safe environment, you know? And, and so that would be, do Joe Moore: you have any kind of figures, like, like, I've been talking about this for a while, Jay. Like, does it drop the cost a lot of doing research when we deschedule things? Jay Kopelman: I, I would imagine so, because it'll drop the cost of accessing the medicines that are being researched. Jay Kopelman: Right? You, you would have buy-in from more organizations. You know, you might even have a pharma company that comes into this, you know, look at j and j with the ketamine, right? They have, they have a nasal spray version of ketamine that's doing very well. I mean, it's probably their, their biggest revenue [00:49:00] provider for them right now. Jay Kopelman: And, and so. You know, you, it would certainly help and I think, I think it would lower costs of research to have something rescheduled rather than being schedule one. You know it, people are afraid to take chances when you're talking about Schedule one Melissa Lavasani: labs or they just don't have the money to research things that are on Schedule one. Melissa Lavasani: 'cause there's so much in an incredible amount of red tape that you have to go through and, and your facility has to be a certain way and how you contain those, uh, medicines. Oh, researching has to be in a specific container and it's just very cumbersome to research schedule one drugs. So absolutely the cost would go down. Melissa Lavasani: Um, but Joe Moore: yeah, absolutely. Less safes. Melissa Lavasani: Yeah. Joe Moore: Yes. Less uh, Melissa Lavasani: right. Joe Moore: Locked. Yeah. Um, it'll be really interesting when that happens. I'm gonna hold out faith. That we can see some [00:50:00] movement here. Um, because yeah, like why make healing more expensive than it needs to be? I think like that's potentially a protectionist move. Joe Moore: Like, I'm not, I'm not here yet, but, um, look at AbbVie's, uh, acquisition of the Gilgamesh ip. Mm-hmm. Like that's a really interesting move. I think it was $1.2 billion. Mm-hmm. So they're gonna wanna protect that investment. Um, and it's likely going to be an approved medication. Like, I don't, I don't see a world in which it's not an approved medication. Joe Moore: Um, you know, I don't know a timeline, I would say Jay Kopelman: yeah. Joe Moore: Less than six years, just given how much cash they've got. But who knows, like, I haven't followed it too closely. So, and that's an I bga derivative to be clear, everybody, um mm-hmm. If you're not, um, in, in the loop on that, which is hopeful, you know? Joe Moore: Mm-hmm. But I don't know what the efficacy is gonna be with that compared to Ibogaine and then we have to talk about the kind of proprietary molecule stuff. Um, there's like a whole bunch of things that are gonna go on here, and this is one of the reasons why I'm excited about. Federal involvement [00:51:00] because we might actually be able to have some sort of centralized manufacturer, um, or at least the VA could license three or four generic manufacturers per for instance, and that way prices aren't gonna be, you know, eight grand a dose or whatever. Joe Moore: You know, it's, Jay Kopelman: well, I think it's a very exciting time in the space. You know, I, I think that there's the opportunity for innovation. There is the opportunity for collaboration. There's the opportunity for, you know, long-term healing at a very low cost. You know, that we, we have the highest healthcare cost per capita in the world right here in the us. Jay Kopelman: And, and yet we are not the number one health system in the world. So to me, that doesn't add up. So we need to figure out a way to start. Bringing costs down for a lot of people and [00:52:00] at the same time increasing, increasing outcomes. Joe Moore: Absolutely. Yeah. There's a lot of possible outcome improvements here and, and you know, everything from relapse rates, like we hear often about people leaving a clinic and they go and overdose when they get home. Tragically, too common. I think there's everything from, you know, I'm Jay, I'm involved in an organization called the Psychedelics and Pain Association. Joe Moore: We look at chronic pain very seriously, and IGA is something we are really interested in. And if. We could have better, you know, research, there better outcome measures there. Um, you know, perhaps we can have less people on opioids to begin with from chronic pain conditions. Um, Jay Kopelman: yeah, I, I might be due for another Ibogaine journey then, because I deal with chronic pain from Jiujitsu, but, Joe Moore: oh gosh, let's Jay Kopelman: talk Joe Moore: later. Jay Kopelman: That's self inflicted. Some people would say take a month off, but Melissa Lavasani: yeah, Jay Kopelman: I'm [00:53:00] not, I'm not that smart. Joe Moore: Yeah. Um, but you know, this, uh, yeah, this whole thing is gonna be really interesting to see how it plays out. I'm endlessly hopeful pull because I'm still here. Right. I, I've been at this for almost 10 years now, very publicly, and I think we are seeing a lot of movement. Joe Moore: It's not always what we actually wanna see, but it is movement nonetheless. You know, how many people are writing on this now than there were before? Right. You know, we, we have people in New York Times writing somewhat regularly about psychedelics and. Even international media is covering it. What do we have legalization in Australia somewhat recently for psilocybin and MDMA, Czech Republic. Joe Moore: I think Germany made some moves recently. Mm-hmm. Um, really interesting to see how this is gonna just keep shifting. Um Jay Kopelman: mm-hmm. Joe Moore: And I think there's no way that we're not gonna have prescription psychedelics in three years in the United States. It pro probably more like a [00:54:00] year and a half. I don't know. Do you, are you all taking odds? Melissa Lavasani: Yeah. I mean, I think Jay Kopelman: I, I gotta check Cal sheet, see what they're saying. Melissa Lavasani: I think it's safe to say, I mean, this could even come potentially the end of this year, I think, but definitely by the end of 2027, there's gonna be at least one psychedelic that's FDA approved. Joe Moore: Yeah. Yeah. Melissa Lavasani: If you're not counting Ketamine. Joe Moore: Right. Jay Kopelman: I, I mean, I mean it mm-hmm. It, it doesn't make sense that it. Shouldn't be or wouldn't be. Right. The, we've seen the benefits. Mm-hmm. We know what they are. It's at a very low cost, but you have to keep in mind that these things, they need to be done with the right set setting and container. Right. And, and gotta be able to provide that environment. Jay Kopelman: So, but I would, I would love, like I said, I'd love to work myself out of a job here and see this happen, not just for our veterans, [00:55:00] but for everybody. Joe Moore: Mm-hmm. Um, so Melissa, is there a way people can get involved or follow PMC or how can they support your work at PMC? Melissa Lavasani: Yeah, I mean, follow us in social media. Melissa Lavasani: Um, our two biggest platforms are LinkedIn and Instagram. Um, I'm bringing my newsletter back because I'm realizing, um, you know, there is a big gap in, in kind of like the knowledge of Washington DC just in general. What's happening here, and I think, you know, part of PC's value is that we're, we are plugged into conversations that are being had, um, here in the city. Melissa Lavasani: And, you know, we do get a little insight. Um, and I think that that would really quiet a lot of, you know, the, a lot of noise that, um, exists in the, our ecosystem. If, if people just had some clarity on like, what's actually happening or happening here and what are the opportunities and, [00:56:00] um, where do we need more reinforcement? Melissa Lavasani: Um, and, and also, you know, as we're putting together public education campaign, you know. My, like, if I could get everything I wanted like that, that campaign would be this like multi-stakeholder collaborative effort, right? Where we're covering all the ground that we need to cover. We're talking to the patient groups, we're talking to traditional mental health organizations, we're talking to the medical community, we're talking to the general population. Melissa Lavasani: I think that's like another area that we, we just seem to be, um, lacking some effort in. And, you know, ultimately the veteran story's always super compelling. It pulls on your heartstrings. These are our heroes, um, of our country. Like that, that is, that is meaningful. But a lot of the veteran population is small and we need the, like a, the just.[00:57:00] Melissa Lavasani: Basic American living in middle America, um, understanding what psychedelics are so that in, in, in presenting to them the stories that they can relate to, um, because that's how you activate the public and you activate the public and you get them to see what's happening in these clinical trials, what the data's been saying, what the opportunities are with psychedelics, and then they start calling their members of Congress and saying, Hey, there is this. Melissa Lavasani: Bill sitting in Congress and why haven't you signed onto it? And that political pressure, uh, when used the right way can be really powerful. So, um, I think, you know, now we're at this really amazing moment where we have a good amount of congressional offices that are familiar enough with psychedelics that they're willing to move on it. Melissa Lavasani: Um, there's another larger group, uh, that is familiar with psychedelics and will assist and co-sponsor legislation, but there's still so many offices that we haven't been able to get to just 'cause like we don't have all the time in the world and all the manpower in the world to [00:58:00] do it. But, you know, that is one avenue is like the advocates can speak to the, the lawmakers, the experts speak to the lawmakers, and we not, we want the public engaged in this, you know, ultimately, like that's. Melissa Lavasani: Like the best form of harm reduction is having an informed public. So we are not, they're not seeing these media headlines of like, oh, this miracle cure that, um, saved my family. It's like, yes, that can happen psychedelics. I mean, person speaking personally, psychedelics did save my family. But what you miss out of that story is the incredible amount of work I put into myself and put into my mental health to this day to maintain, um, like myself, my, my own agency and like be the parent that I wanna be and be the spouse that I wanna be. Melissa Lavasani: So, um, we, we need to continue to share these stories and we need to continue to collaborate to get this message out because we're all, we're all in the same boat right now. We all want the same things. We want patients to have safe and [00:59:00] affordable access to psychedelic assisted care. Um, and, uh. We're just in the beginning here, so, um, sign up for our newsletter and we can sign up on our website and then follow us on social media. Melissa Lavasani: And, um, I anticipate more and more events, um, happening with PMC and hopefully we can scale up some of these events to be much more public facing, um, as this issue grows. So, um, I'm really excited about the future and I'm, I've been enjoying this partnership with Mission Within. Jay is such a professional and, and it really shows up when he needs to show up and, um, I look forward to more of that in the future. Joe Moore: Fantastic. And Jay, how can people follow along and support mission within Foundation? Jay Kopelman: Yeah, again, social media is gonna be a good way to do that. So we, we are also pretty heavily engaged on LinkedIn and on Instagram. Um, I do [01:00:00] share, uh, a bit of my own stuff as well. On social media. So we have social media pages for Mission within Foundation, and we have a LinkedIn page for mission within foundation. Jay Kopelman: I have my own profiles on both of those as well where people can follow along. Um, one of the other things you know that would probably help get more attention for this is if the general public was more aware of the numbers of professional athletes who are also now pursuing. I began specifically to help treat their traumatic brain injuries and the chronic traumatic encephalopathy that they've, uh, suffered as a result of their time in professional sports or even college sports. Jay Kopelman: And, you know. I people worship these athletes, and I [01:01:00] think that if more of them, like Robert Gall, were more outspoken about these treatments and the healing properties that they've provided them, that it would get even more attention. Um, I think though what Melissa said, you know, I don't wanna parrot anything she just said because she said it perfectly Right. Jay Kopelman: And I'd just be speaking to hear myself talk. Um, but being collaborative the way that we are with PMC and with Melissa is I think, the way to move the needle on this overall. And like she said, if she could get more groups involved in, in these discussions, it would, it would do wonders for us. Joe Moore: Well, thank you both so much for your hard work out there. I always appreciate it when people are showing up and doing this important, [01:02:00] sometimes boring and tedious, but nevertheless sometimes, sometimes exciting work. And um, so yeah, just thank you both and thank you both for showing up here to psychedelics today to join us and I hope we can continue to support you all in the future. Jay Kopelman: Thank you, Joe. Thank you, Joe. It's a pleasure being with you today and with Melissa, of course, always Melissa Lavasani: appreciate the time and space. Joe Moore: Thanks.  

Ospite del 194° episodio di Illuminismo Psichedelico è una nostra vecchia conoscenza, il neuroscienziato e ricercatore Tommaso Barba. In questo episodio Tommaso ha deciso di condividere con noi i contenuti di una importante esperienza psichedelica che ha vissuto in Olanda, dove in un contesto legale ha assunto per due volte dosi significative di "tartufi", in particolare nel secondo trip gli insight sono stati molto importanti, e l'esperienza di picco decisamente intensa. Questo racconto non è solo importante di per sé ma soprattutto perché a scegliere di farlo è uno scienziato al lavoro su queste molecole – una scelta dunque importante e ponderata. Nel seguito della puntata Tommaso ci dà una notizia (quasi) in anteprima, rivelandoci i risultati di un trial dell'Imperial College sulla DMT antidepressiva: gli studi iniziano a dimostrarne l'efficacia, che combinata alla brevità dell'assunzione potrebbe rappresentare un punto di svolta importante nelle terapie psichedeliche. Infine Tommaso, tra i docenti della prima settimana di corsi alla Illuminismo Psichedelico Academy, ha ripercorso l'entusiasmo e l'importanza di questa iniziativa didattica.

Hey everybody! Episode 184 of the show is out. This episode is a podcast I was interviewed on called Beyond the Courage hosted by Robert Canis. Robert has a really good podcast about holistic healing and I was happy to join him. We spoke about a lot of different aspects of my path and he also really focused on iboga which is not something I speak much about. It was a good interview and Robert did a great job of picking my mind and going into some subjects I don't always speak about. Consider supporting his work if you can. As always, to support this podcast, get early access to shows, bonus material, and Q&As, check out my Patreon page below. Enjoy!To learn more about or contact Jason, visit his website at: https://NicotianaRustica.orgTo learn more about or contact Robert, visit his website at: https://www.beyondthecourage.comTo view the recent documentary, Sacred Tobacco, about my work, visit: https://youtu.be/KB0JEQALI_wI will be guiding our next plant medicine dietas with my colleague Merav Artzi (who I interviewed in episode 28) in:January 2026: our second Remote DietaFebruary 2026: Sacred Valley of PeruJuly 2026: Westport, IrelandNovember 2026: Sacred Valley of PeruIf you would like more information about joining us and the work I do or about future retreats, visit my site at: https://NicotianaRustica.orgIntegration/Consultation call: https://jasongrechanik.setmore.comPatreon: https://patreon.com/UniverseWithinYouTube join & perks: https://bit.ly/YTPerksPayPal donation: https://paypal.me/jasongrechanikWebsite: https://jasongrechanik.comInstagram: https://instagram.com/JasonGrechanikFacebook: https://facebook.com/UniverseWithinPodcastMusic: Nuno Moreno: https://m.soundcloud.com/groove_a_zen_sound & Stefan Kasapovski's Santero Project: https://spoti.fi/3y5Rd4H

On today's episode of The Jimmy Rex Show, Jimmy sits down with Naweïa Wilder, a health + healing practitioner who works with Iboga and other alternative modalities focused on deep emotional healing, truth work, and self-love.They start with Naweïa's background growing up Mormon in California, her unexpected decision to serve an LDS mission in Guatemala, and the spiritual questions that followed. From there, Naweïa shares how her path expanded into energy work, kinesiology, EFT tapping, and ultimately plant medicine, including early experiences with ayahuasca and the moment she felt strongly called toward Iboga. Jimmy and Naweïa break down what makes Iboga different, why it's often described as a “truth hunter,” and how it can help people work through trauma, addiction patterns, emotional loops, and the deeper roots of self-sabotage.Naweïa also talks about the real meaning of self-love, why healing isn't just “feel good” spirituality, and how different parts of the psyche can stay stuck even when the adult version of you looks successful on paper.This is a deep, honest conversation about faith, healing, forgiveness, personal evolution, and what it looks like to find your own path to God without judgment.

In this deeply reflective and expansive conversation, Darin sits down with poet, speaker, and consciousness explorer Adam Roa for a raw dialogue on creativity, stillness, identity, and the courage it takes to live from integrity instead of performance. From viral art and the pressure of platforms to darkness retreats, emotional sovereignty, and redefining success, this episode explores what it really means to listen inwardly in a world addicted to noise. This is not a conversation about answers. It's a conversation about asking better questions and trusting the quiet moments where truth lives.     What You'll Learn in This Episode How art and creativity act as accelerators for human consciousness Why stepping back from visibility can be an act of integrity, not avoidance The emotional cost of constant output and public expectation What happens when identity dissolves and certainty disappears Why stillness, darkness, and solitude reveal what discipline cannot How to rebuild meaning when old belief systems fall apart The difference between inspired expression and performative sharing Why emotions are not obstacles — but the point of being human     Chapters 00:00 – Welcome to SuperLife and the mission of sovereignty and conscious living 01:00 – Sponsor break: Truniagen 02:18 – Introducing Adam Roa and his global impact through poetry 03:10 – Why art reaches places words alone cannot 04:28 – First impressions of Adam's viral poem and emotional resonance 06:05 – How "You Are What You've Been Looking For" reached 250M+ people 07:18 – Art as permission to feel — and why healing requires emotion 08:27 – Why personal transformation must include the emotional body 09:32 – Serendipity, readiness, and owning your inner authority 10:31 – Seeing yourself on the stage before the invitation arrives 11:35 – Limiting beliefs and the illusion of needing permission 12:26 – Offering your gift freely — and the moment everything changed 13:19 – Preparation meets opportunity: why readiness matters 14:21 – Acting when something feels wrong in the world 15:43 – Fear, courage, and why confidence is built — not bestowed 17:31 – Why manifestation happens through action, not just meditation 18:33 – Why fear disappearing is actually dangerous 19:48 – Fear as proof that you care — the opposite of apathy 21:02 – Creating new realities instead of fighting reactive systems 22:50 – Sponsor break: Fatty15 and cellular health 26:31 – Creativity in the age of AI — amplification vs. outsourcing 27:26 – Repressed trauma and uncovering the roots of the self 28:45 – Creativity as pattern recognition and personal evolution 30:30 – Depression, breakups, and art as a pressure release 31:41 – Plant medicine as a doorway to childhood revelations 33:07 – Ayahuasca vs. Iboga: radically different spiritual journeys 35:11 – Why facilitation and container safety are critical 37:44 – The risks of unsafe ceremonial spaces and faux shamans 40:57 – The importance of indigenous-focused healing perspectives 42:44 – Finding the "doors" within through meditation and breathwork 43:55 – Building meaningful work without becoming noise 46:03 – Overcoming survival instincts from a premature birth 48:08 – Following the desire for hope, possibility, and solutions 49:55 – Meditation, gamma states, and stream of consciousness 50:49 – Visualizing the higher self and the glowing library 51:37 – SuperLife Patreon: deeper conversations and community 53:30 – Five days in complete darkness: stripping identity away 55:23 – Hearing the whisper of God beneath the mental noise 57:39 – Why the voice of the omnipresent sounds like your own 59:20 – Returning to the modern world and electromagnetic signals 1:02:04 – Choosing silence and authenticity over performative posting 1:03:54 – Integrity, vulnerability, and the dangers of unsafe platforms 1:07:38 – Creating from truth rather than chasing algorithms 1:08:27 – Crazy Love: journal entries on the messy arc of relationships 1:10:18 – Self-revelation: finding yourself reflected in the art 1:12:18 – Breaking the 12-year loop and choosing new patterns 1:13:51 – The iterations of love and the cycle of constant change 1:16:30 – Authenticity vs. the "Guru" facade of social media 1:19:41 – Art as a time capsule for past consciousness 1:22:31 – Triggers as access points for personal healing 1:23:43 – Giving yourself permission to play and be "unproductive" 1:26:12 – Life as a soul scavenger hunt guided by curiosity 1:28:24 – Reaching the breaking point and shifting from push to magnetism 1:29:58 – Investigating deep pain and the process of rebirthing 1:31:38 – Designing a collective society with intention 1:33:10 – Closing poem: "Heaven" — the courage to feel all of life 1:35:45 – Gratitude for the miracle of the next breath 1:37:34 – Digging for the love of life and turning the page to heal     Thank You to Our Sponsors Truniagen: Go to www.truniagen.com and use code DARIN20 at checkout for 20% off Fatty15: Get an additional 15% off their 90-day subscription Starter Kit by going to fatty15.com/DARIN and using code DARIN at checkout.     Join the SuperLife Community Get Darin's deeper wellness breakdowns — beyond social media restrictions: Weekly voice notes Ingredient deep dives Wellness challenges Energy + consciousness tools Community accountability Extended episodes Join for $7.49/month → https://patreon.com/darinolien     Find More from Adam Roa Website: adamroa.com Instagram: @adam.roa Book: Crazy Love     Find More from Darin Olien: Instagram: @darinolien Podcast: SuperLife Podcast Website: superlife.com Book: Fatal Conveniences     Key Takeaway: "The most impactful thing you can do for the world is learn how to love life, all of it. Not by avoiding pain, but by having the courage to feel deeply, because contained within emotion is the very key that sets us free."

Denna vecka välkomnar vi Paulina Cewe, även känd som gen.6 från åren runt millenieskiftet. Vi snackar om psytrance och progressive psytrance, hennes dj:ande och nutida ambitionsnivå, men även den hektiska tiden i början av 2000-talet med mängder av gigs och musiksläpp på etiketter som Spiral Trax och Iboga.Paulina Cewe på Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/paulina.cewePaulina Cewe på Soundcloud: https://soundcloud.com/paulinacewePaulina Cewes hemsida: https://www.paulinacewe.org/Dansmusikpoddens Patreon, FB-grupp etc: https://linktr.ee/dansmusikpodden

Rising star Valar returns to Iboga with a compelling new journey titled The Message. Defined by a melodic, fluid flow and pure progressive psytrance basslines, the release draws the listener into Valar's sonic world from the very first moment. Impeccable production finesse and emotional drive make The Message a focused, immersive statement from an artist in clear ascent.

Released on my 35th birthday, this episode is a cozy conversation between me and one of my closest friends about iboga integration. We discuss what life has been like in the nine months since I had a shocking Iboga experience. One that allowed me to access the source of deepest shame within myself, after six years of working with psychedelic medicine. Since then, I have been given the opportunity to transform my relationship with that shame. This is a cozy story time style episode where I reflect on everything I have been learning, integrating, releasing and opening up to, after iboga at etereo. I definitely haven't "figured it all out", and I am in still in process. This is a glimpse into it the inner work that helped me befriend my shadowiest shadow.Show Links:ETÉREO: Center for Truth@etereo__bajaDoing the Work w/ IbogaTopics covered:What Iboga reveals about self-deception, truth, and identityThe shock and grief phase of post-Iboga integrationWhy integration often feels harder before it feels lighterSlow healing vs. making healing your whole personalityAnxiety, thought spirals, and learning not to act from themReleasing control, oversharing, and curated self-imageCultural shame, father wounds, and returning to the BalkansCreativity as integration (photography, fashion, expression)Entering a secure romantic relationship after years of singlenessAnxious attachment, earned security, and emotional regulationLiving long-distance as part of the medicine's curriculumWhy “life is the integration plan”Stepping away from facilitation and the savior roleChoosing to enjoy life without abandoning depth or devotion

Pain meds after surgery were supposed to help her heal, not take over her life. Years of prescriptions following a C-section, miscarriages, and unresolved childhood sexual trauma quietly turned into addiction, shame, and a double life that looked perfect on the outside while crumbling on the inside. When everything finally imploded, Shannon said yes to help, went to The Meadows in Arizona, and started the hard work of sobriety, inner child healing, and facing what she had been trying to numb for years. In this conversation, Shannon talks with Scott about why addiction is a symptom, not an identity, and why shame and silence keep so many vets stuck. She shares how she supports veterans, including her own partner, who survived a suicide attempt, by creating judgment-free spaces, normalizing dark thoughts, and asking the real question: why would dying feel easier than speaking up. From powerful inner child work and self-forgiveness to psychedelic-assisted healing with iboga at Ayo Life Sciences in Mexico, Shannon explains how some veterans are reducing PTSD, TBI symptoms, and pill loads while rebuilding a new sense of purpose after the uniform. They close with simple daily practices like gratitude lists, reframing painful experiences, and finding new missions through retreats and coaching that help vets move from fight-or-flight into a life that actually feels worth staying in. Timestamps: 00:01:35 - When Shannon's perfect life implodes, and she finally says yes to help 00:06:02 - Miscarriages, childhood trauma, and how prescriptions became her coping strategy 00:08:20 - Addiction as a symptom and why she refuses to shame anyone for using it to cope 00:26:35 - Inner child work, protecting the little boy who never felt safe, and why vets struggle to see themselves as worthy of love 00:31:18 - Iboga plant medicine in Mexico, massive shifts for PTSD and TBI, and why preparation and safety matter so much Links & Resources Veteran Suicide & Crisis Line: Dial 988, then press 1 Website: https://www.angelgoddesshealing.com Follow Shannon Curtis on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/angel.goddess.healing Follow Shannon Curtis on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/angelgoddesshealing Transcript View the transcript for this episode.

In this episode, Beth shares why she's finally saying yes to an Iboga journey…after contemplating and building a relationship with this medicine for 14 years.  You'll hear the story of how seeds were planted back in 2012, why she kept putting it off for years, what finally shifted, and what she's learning and receiving from Iboga before the retreat even begins.This is about truth, fear, prayer, timing, deep integration and the difference between chasing quick and easy healing vs. building a relationship with a medicine as an ally. If you've been contemplating Iboga or another plant medicine, this may be helpful for you to hear about her process to discernment and decision making.What you'll hear insideThe first time Beth heard about Iboga and the phrase she never forgot: “First ceremony cleanses your karma… second tells you what to do with your life.”The long on-and-off relationship with the calling to this medicine and why she didn't do Iboga for so many yearsThe piece most people underestimate: ample space and time for integration, especially with Iboga.Taking an “energetic sabbatical”--what it actually has been, what it wasn't, and why it mattersMidlife portal and the deeper question underneath: “What do I really want?”The hard moment when a death at an Iboga center changed everythingA trusted friend's iboga experience and a mysterious “one thing” she hasn't been able to move despite doing “all the things” to change it.“Hanuman made me do it!” (?!) Various “lightning bolt” moments and timeline-jumps.Microdosing Iboga, how it happened and what it was likeA plant connection practice Beth recommends if you feel called to any medicine and what happened the very first time she did it with IbogaThe FEAR of iboga… why has she rarely felt this level of fear before a medicine journey?The purge-before-the-purge: shedding the skin of the snake and endings for the highest good.Yet another call-out of the “Amazon Prime effect” of “quick healing” culture… and why intention, prayer, reverence, and relationship matter more than trying to “get something” from a plantRecurring ocean dreamsBeth's deepest intention… not “fix me,” but: “Whatever is in the highest and best for me to be of service on this planet at this time.”ThemesPrayer and right relationship with Iboga and other sacred plant medicinesTiming, readiness, and discernmentIntegration as an actual lifestyle (not just an integration circle)When fear is a doorway inThe way spirit weaves in your life LONG before the ceremonyTruth vs. bypassingMentions + Modalities referencedAyahuasca, psilocybin mushrooms, Bufo, and “trickster” medicinesMaster plant dietas and retreat integrationVipassana / extended meditation retreatsTransformational NLP and Family Constellation work (and why it can feel like “there's no other way to get there”)Devotion, chanting, singing…and her journey of lightening bolt moments with the Hanuman Chalisa and dreams of HanumanDream guidance from plant spiritsA note on Iboga safety + discernmentIboga is not to be taken lightly. Making this decision was not a casual path. Beth speaks to the importance of being held by skilled facilitators, proper screening, and not rushing toward a “quick fix.” If you're feeling called, let your prayer deepen, let guidance ripen, and choose safety and integrity over urgency.New 1-1 Container Now Open!Sunarai: The Journey Home to Your Quintessence, Clarity & Abundance is a 12-Week 1:1 Private Alchemical Journey with Subconscious Reprogramming Transformational NLP Sessions;  Plant Medicine Guidance + Support;  Gene Keys + Energetic Activation;  Embodied Soul Alignment, and deep purification work  LinksFree Gifts: https://bethaweinstein.com/grow-your-spiritual-business/Sunarai: The Journey Home to Your Quintessence, Clarity & Abundance: https://go.bethaweinstein.com/sunarai/Upcoming plant dieta (with astrology + special guests): sign up for the waitlist herehttps://go.bethaweinstein.com/rose-dieta/  If this episode speaks to you…Send it to someone who's been circling a big decision or someone who's trying to stop outsourcing their truth to “the next thing.” And if you're not on Beth's email list yet, that's the place to stay connected when social platforms do what they do. Download Beth's free trainings here: Clarity to Clients: Start & Grow a Transformational Coaching, Healing, Spiritual, or Psychedelic Business: https://bethaweinstein.com/grow-your-spiritual-businessIntegrating Psychedelics & Sacred Medicines Into Business: https://bethaweinstein.com/psychedelics-in-business▶ Beth's Coaching & Guidance: https://bethaweinstein.com/coaching ▶ Beth's Offerings & Courses: https://bethaweinstein.com/services▶ Instagram: @bethaweinstein ▶ FB: / bethw.nyc + bethweinsteinbiz ▶ Join the free Psychedelics & Purpose Community: / psychedelicsandsacredmedicines

117. Ibogaine Therapy Safety & Ethics: What Responsible Care Really Looks LikeA grounded conversation on ibogaine therapy safety and ethics—covering medical oversight, risks, integration, and responsible psychedelic care.Episode SummaryIbogaine is often described as a breakthrough for addiction, trauma, and PTSD—but it's also one of the most medically complex psychedelic therapies in use today. In this episode, April Pride sits down with Tom Feegel and Talia Eisenberg, co-founders of Beond Ibogaine, to explore what ethical, medically supported ibogaine care actually requires.Together, they unpack the difference between iboga and ibogaine, why cardiac screening and clinical monitoring are non-negotiable, and how integration—not intensity—is where real change happens. Talia shares her personal recovery story, Tom explains Beond's safety-first model, and April grounds the conversation in harm reduction, nervous system care, and responsibility. This episode will help you understand the real risks, the emerging science, and the ethical questions shaping ibogaine's future—without hype or shortcuts.

La 191° puntata di Illuminismo Psichedelico è un'edizione speciale. Qui infatti non c'è nessun ospite ma solo l'host, Federico di Vita, che in concomitanza dell'apertura di Illuminismo Psichedelico Academy e dell'avvio del suo primo corso, il primo mai proposto in Italia sulle Terapie Assistite con Psichedelici, legge – in versione studio, realizzata appositamente per gli ascoltatori del podcast – il discorso inaugurale tenuto in classe per l'inizio dei lavori. 

Welcome to Part Two of the Best of The Life Stylist Podcast 2025. This episode is both a reflection and a deep thank-you to the listeners who continue to choose long-form conversation, nuance, and depth in a world built on distraction and noise.In this curated collection, we revisit some of the most expansive and boundary-pushing conversations of the year—dialogues that venture into territory most shows won't touch. You'll hear Erwan Le Corre challenge modern fitness myths and reframe movement as a return to our humanity; Melissa Kupsch unpack the true nature of homeopathy and personal autonomy; and Jim Poole explain how NuCalm works at a neurological level to unlock calm and flow without decades of practice.We also explore the sacred lineage of iboga with Tricia Eastman, question conventional narratives about Earth's history with Mike Wilkerson, and reimagine money as energy and consciousness with Elizabeth Ralph.The episode continues with candid conversations on censorship, sovereignty, food systems, ritual, and ancient memory—each pointing back to a central theme: thinking clearly, feeling deeply, and reclaiming authority over your own life.As 2025 closes and we look toward a year of integration and embodiment, this episode is an invitation to ask better questions—and to carry what you've learned into lived experience.DISCLAIMER: This podcast is for educational purposes only and not intended for diagnosing or treating illnesses. The hosts disclaim responsibility for any adverse effects from using the information presented. Consult your healthcare provider before using referenced products. This podcast may include paid endorsements.THIS SHOW IS BROUGHT TO YOU BY:BIOPTIMIZERS | You can use the code LUKE15 for 15% off at bioptimizers.com/lukeLEELA QUANTUM TECH | Go to lukestorey.com/leelaq and use the code LUKE10 for 10% off their product line.EONS | Visit lukestorey.com/eons and use code LUKE20 to save 20%.SUNLIGHTEN | Save up to $600 when you go to lukestorey.com/sunlighten and use code LUKESTOREY in the pricing form.MORE ABOUT THIS EPISODE:(00:00:00) 607: Breathing Less to Experience More: The Inner Dive of BreathHoldWork & MovNat w/ Erwan Le Corre(00:15:25) 612: Suppressed Solutions: Homeopathy for Fertility, Hormones, & Ancestral Pain w/ Melissa Kupsch(00:25:23) 613: NuCalm: Silence Stress, Meditate Like a Monk, & Access Flow State on Demand w/ Jim Poole(00:35:30) 614: The Heart of Iboga: Ancient Healing, Modern Maladies—PTSD, TBI, & Addiction w/ Tricia Eastman(00:47:34) 618: Are Mountains the Corpses of Titans? Giant Trees, Fossil Beasts, & Earth's Hidden History w/ Mike Wilkerson(00:57:03) 619: Sacred Currency: Bridging Frequency, Flow, and Financial Power w/ Elizabeth Ralph(01:10:16) 620: The Fight for Vaccine Truth: Banned, Blacklisted, and Still Speaking Out w/ Andrew Wakefield(01:24:15) 623: Soil, Sovereignty, & Sacred Self-Reliance: Accelerate Your Homesteading Journey w/ Curtis Stone(01:34:46) 630: Oracle Arts & Ancient Mysteries: Ritual, Remembrance, & Restoration w/ Isis...

In this live episode, Tricia Eastman joins to discuss Seeding Consciousness: Plant Medicine, Ancestral Wisdom, Psychedelic Initiation. She explains why many Indigenous initiatory systems begin with consultation and careful assessment of the person, often using divination and lineage-based diagnostic methods before anyone enters ceremony. Eastman contrasts that with modern frameworks that can move fast, rely on short trainings, or treat the medicine as a stand-alone intervention. Early Themes: Ritual, Preparation, and the Loss of Container Eastman describes her background, including ancestral roots in Mexico and her later work at Crossroads Ibogaine in Mexico, where she supported early ibogaine work with veterans. She frames her broader work as cultural bridging that seeks respect rather than fetishization, and assimilation into modern context rather than appropriation. Early discussion focuses on: Why initiatory traditions emphasize purification, preparation, and long timelines Why consultation matters before any high-intensity medicine work How decades of training shaped traditional initiation roles Why people can get harmed when they treat medicine as plug and play Core Insights: Alchemy, Shadow, and Doing the Work A major throughline is Eastman's critique of the belief that a psychedelic alone will erase trauma. She argues that shadow work remains part of the human condition, and that healing is less about a one-time fix and more about building capacity for relationship with the unconscious. Using alchemical language, she describes "nigredo" as fuel for the creative process, not as something to eliminate forever. Key insights include: Psychedelics are tools, not saviors You cannot outsource responsibility to a pill, a modality, or a facilitator Progress requires practice, discipline, and honest engagement with what arises "Healing" often shows up as obstacles encountered while trying to live and create Later Discussion and Takeaways: Iboga, Ethics, and Biocultural Stewardship Joe and Tricia move into a practical and ethically complex discussion about iboga supply chains, demand pressure, and the risks of amplifying interest without matching it with harm reduction and reciprocity. Eastman emphasizes medical screening, responsible messaging, and supporting Indigenous-led stewardship efforts. She also warns that harm can come from both under-trained modern facilitators and irresponsible people claiming traditional legitimacy. Concrete takeaways include: Treat iboga and ibogaine as high-responsibility work that demands safety protocols Avoid casual marketing that encourages risky self-administration Support Indigenous-led biocultural stewardship and reciprocity efforts Give lineage carriers a meaningful seat at the table in modern policy and clinical conversations Frequently Asked Questions Who is Tricia Eastman? Tricia Eastman is an author, facilitator, and founder of Ancestral Heart. Her work focuses on cultural bridging, initiation frameworks, and Indigenous-led stewardship. What is Seeding Consciousness about? The book examines plant medicine through initiatory traditions, emphasizing consultation, ritual, preparation, and integration rather than reductionistic models. Why does Tricia Eastman critique modern psychedelic models? She argues that many models remove the ritual container and long-form preparation that reduce risk and support deeper integration. Is iboga or ibogaine safe? With the right oversite, yes. Eastman stresses that safety depends on cardiac screening, careful protocols, and experienced oversight. She warns against informal or self-guided use. How can people support reciprocity and stewardship? She encourages donating or supporting Indigenous-led biocultural stewardship initiatives like Ancestral Heart and aligning public messaging with harm reduction. Closing Thoughts This episode makes a clear case that Tricia Eastman Seeding Consciousness is not only a book about psychedelics, but a critique of how the field is developing. Eastman argues that a successful future depends on mature containers, serious safety culture, and respectful partnership with lineage carriers, especially as interest in iboga and ibogaine accelerates. Links https://www.ancestralheart.com https://www.innertraditions.com/author/tricia-eastman Transcript Joe Moore Hello, everybody. Welcome back. Joe Moore with you again from Psychedelics Today, joined today by Tricia Eastman. Tricia, you just wrote a book called Seeding Consciousness. We're going to get into that a bunch today, but how are you today? [00:00:16.07] - Tricia Eastman I'm so good. It's exciting to be live. A lot of the podcasts I do are offline, and so it's like we're being witnessed and feels like just can feel the energy behind It's great. [00:00:31.11] - Joe Moore It's fun. It's a totally different energy than maybe this will come out in four months. This is real, and there's people all over the world watching in real-time. And we'll get some comments. So folks, if you're listening, please leave us some comments. And we'd love to chat a little bit later about those. [00:00:49.23] - Tricia Eastman I'm going to join the chat so that I can see... Wait, I just want to make sure I'm able to see the comments, too. Do I hit join the chat? [00:01:01.17] - Joe Moore Sometimes you can, sometimes you can't. I can throw comments on the screen so we can see them together. [00:01:07.02] - Tricia Eastman Cool. [00:01:08.03] - Joe Moore Yeah. So it'll be fun. Give us comments, people. Please, please, please, please. Yeah, you're all good. So Tricia, I want to chat about your book. Tell us high level about your book, and then we're going to start digging into you. [00:01:22.10] - Tricia Eastman So Seeding Consciousness is the title, and I know it's a long subtitled Plant Medicine, Ancestral Wisdom, Psychedelic Initiation. And I felt like it was absolutely necessary for the times that we are in right now. When I was in Gabon in 2018, in one of my many initiations, as as an initiative, the Fung lineage of Buiti, which I've been practicing in for 11 years now, I was given the instructions. I was given the integration homework to write this book. And I would say I don't see that as this divine thing, like you were given the assignment. I think I was given the assignment because it's hard as F to write a book. I mean, it really tests you on so many levels. I mean, even just thinking about putting yourself out there from a legal perspective, and then also, does it make any sense? Will anyone buy it? And on Honestly, it's not me. It's really what I was given to write, but it's based on my experience working with several thousand people over the years. And really, the essence of it is that in our society, we've taken this reductionistic approach in psychedelics, where we've really taken out the ritual. [00:02:54.05] - Tricia Eastman Even now with the FDA trial for MDMA for PTSD. There's even conversations with a lot of companies that are moving forward, psychedelics, through the FDA process, through that pathway, that are talking about taking the therapy out. And the reality is that in these ancient initiatic traditions, they were very long, drawn out experiences with massive purification rituals, massive amounts of different types of practice in order to prepare oneself to meet the medicine. Different plants were taken, like vomatifs and different types of purification rituals were performed. And then you would go into this profound initiatic experience because the people that were working with you that were in, we call it the Nema, who gives initiations, had decades of training and experience doing these types of initiatic experiences. So if you compare that to the modern day framework, we have people that go online and get a certificate and start serving people medicine or do it in a context where maybe there isn't even an established container or facilitator whatsoever. And so really, the idea is, how can we take the essence of this ancient wisdom wisdom, like when you look at initiation, the first step is consultation, which is really going deep into the history of the individual using different types of techniques that are Indigenous technologies, such as different forms of divination, such as cowrie shell readings. [00:04:52.18] - Tricia Eastman And there's different types of specific divinations that are done in different branches of And before one individual would even go into any initiation, you need to understand the person and where they're coming from. So it's really about that breakdown of all of that, and how can we integrate elements of that into a more modern framework. [00:05:24.23] - Joe Moore Brilliant. All right. Well, thank you for that. And let's chat about you. You've got a really interesting past, very dynamic, could even call it multicultural. And you've got a lot of experience that informed this book. So how did this stuff come forward for you? [00:05:50.02] - Tricia Eastman I mean, I've never been the person to seek anything. My family on my mother's side is from Mexico, from Oaxaca, Trique, Mixtec, and Michica. And we had a long lineage of practice going back to my, at least I know from my great, great grandmother, practicing a blend of mestiza, shamanism, combining centerea and Catholicism together. So it's more of like a syncratic mestiza, mestiza being mixed tradition. And so I found it really interesting because later on, when my grandfather came to the United States, he ended up joining the military. And in being in the US, he didn't really have a place. He's very devout spiritual man, but he didn't have a place to practice this blended spiritual tradition. So the mystical aspect of it went behind. And as I started reconnecting to my ancestral lineage, this came forth that I was really starting to understand the mystical aspect of my ancestry. And interestingly, at the same time, was asked to work at Crossroads Abigain in Mexico. And it's so interesting to see that Mexico has been this melting pot and has been the place where Abigain has chosen to plant its roots, so to say, and has treated thousands of veterans. [00:07:36.28] - Tricia Eastman I got to be part of the group of facilitators back over 10 years ago. We treated the first Navy Seals with Abogaine, and that's really spurred a major interest in Abogaine. Now it's in every headline. I also got 10 I got initiated into the Fung lineage of Buiti and have really studied the traditional knowledge. I created a nonprofit back in 2019 called Ancestral Heart, which is really focused on Indigenous-led stewardship. Really, the book helps as a culmination of the decade of real-world experience of combining My husband, Dr. Joseph Barzulia. He's a psychologist. He's also a pretty well-known published researcher in Abigain and 5MEO-DMT, but also deeply spiritual and deeply in respect for the Indigenous traditions that have carried these medicines before us. So we've really been walking this complex path of world bridging between how we establish these relationships and how we bring some of these ancient knowledge systems back into the forefront, but not in a way of fetishizing them, but in a way of deeply respecting them and what we can learn, but from our own assimilation and context versus appropriation. So really, I think the body of my work is around that cultural bridging. [00:09:31.07] - Joe Moore That's brilliant. And yeah, there's some really fun stuff I learned in the book so far that I want to get into later. But next question is, who is your intended audience here? Because this is an interesting book that could hit a few categories, but I'm curious to hear from you. [00:09:49.02] - Tricia Eastman It's so funny because when I wrote the book, I wasn't thinking, oh, what's my marketing plan? What's my pitch? Who's my intended audience? Because it was my homework, and I knew I needed to write the book, and maybe that was problematic in the sense that I had to go to publishers and have a proposal. And then I had to create a formula in hindsight. And I would say the demographic of the book mirrors the demographic of where people are in the psychedelic space, which It's skewed slightly more male, although very female. I think sex isn't necessarily important when we're thinking about the level of trauma and the level of spiritual healing and this huge deficit that we have in mental health, which is really around our disconnection from our true selves, from our heart, from our souls, from this idea of of what Indigenous knowledge systems call us the sacred. It's really more of an attitude of care and presence. I'm sure we could give it a different name so that individuals don't necessarily have any guard up because we have so much negative conditioning related to the American history of religion, which a lot of people have rejected, and some have gone back to. [00:11:37.06] - Tricia Eastman But I think we need to separate it outside of that. I would say the demographic is really this group of I would say anywhere from 30 to 55 male females that are really in this space where maybe they're doing some of the wellness stuff. They're starting to figure some things out, but it's just not getting them there. And when something happens in life, for example, COVID-19 would be a really great example. It knocks them off course, and they just don't have the tools to find that connection. And I would say it even spans across people that do a lot of spiritual practice and maybe are interested in what psychedelics can do in addition to those practices. Because when we look at my view on psychedelics, is they fit within a whole spectrum of wellness and self-care and any lineage of spiritual practice, whether it's yoga or Sufism or Daoist tradition. But they aren't necessarily the thing that... I think there's an over focus on the actual substance itself and putting it on a pedestal that I think is problematic in our society because it goes back to our religious context in the West is primarily exoteric, meaning that we're seeking something outside of ourselves to fulfill ourselves. [00:13:30.29] - Tricia Eastman And so I think that when we look at psychedelic medicines as this exoteric thing versus when we look at initiatory traditions are about inward and direct experience. And all of these spiritual practices and all of these modalities are really designed to pull you back into yourself, into having a direct relationship with yourself and direct experience. And I feel like the minute that you are able to forge that connection, which takes practice and takes discipline, then you don't need to necessarily look at all these other tools outside of yourself. It's like one of my favorite analogies is the staff on the Titanic were moving the furniture around as it was sinking, thinking that they might save the boat from sinking by moving the furniture around. I think that's how we've been with a lot of ego-driven modalities that aren't actually going into the full unconscious, which is where we need to go to have these direct experiences. Sorry for the long answer, but it is for everybody, and it's not just about psychedelics. Anyone can take something from this doing any spiritual work. But we talk a lot about the Indigenous philosophy and how that ties in alongside with spiritual practice and more of this inner way of connecting with oneself and doing the work. [00:15:21.22] - Tricia Eastman And I think also really not sugar coating it in the sense that the psychedelics aren't going to save us. They're not going to cure PTSD. Nothing you take will. It's you that does the work. And if you don't do the work, you're not going to have an 87 % success rate with opioid use disorder or whatever it is, 60 something % for treatment-resistant depression or whatever. It's like you have to do the work. And so we can't keep putting the power in the modality reality or the pill. [00:16:03.18] - Joe Moore Yeah, that makes sense. So you did an interesting thing here with this book, and it was really highlighting aspects of the alchemical process. And people don't necessarily have exposure. They hear the words alchemy. I get my shoulders go up when I hear alchemizing, like transmutation. But it's a thing. And how do we then start communicating this from Jung? I found out an interesting thing recently as an ongoing student. Carl Jung didn't necessarily have access to all that many manuscripts. There's so many alchemical manuscripts available now compared to what he had. And as a result, our understanding of alchemy has really evolved. Western alchemy, European alchemy, everybody. Perhaps Kmetic, too. I don't know. You could speak to that more. I don't keep track of what's revealed in Egypt. So it's really interesting to present that in a forward way? How has it been received so far? Or were you nervous to present this in this way? [00:17:25.10] - Tricia Eastman I mean, honestly, I think the most important The important thing is that in working with several thousand people over the years, people think that taking the psychedelic and the trauma is going to go away. It's always there. I mean, we We archetypically will have the shadow as long as we need the shadow to learn. And so even if we go into a journey and we transcend it, it's still there. So I would say that the The feedback has been really incredible. I mean, the people that are reading... I mean, I think because I'm weaving so many different, complex and deep concepts into one book, it might be a little harder to market. And I think the biggest bummer was that I was really trying to be respectful to my elders and not say anything in the title about Iboga and Abigain, even though I talk a lot about it in the book, and it's such a hot topic, it's really starting to take off. But the people that have read it really consider it. They really do the work. They do the practices in the book, and I'm just getting really profound feedback. So that's exciting to me because really, ultimately, alchemy... [00:18:55.22] - Tricia Eastman Yeah, you're right. It gets used Used a lot in marketing lingo and sitting in the depth of the tar pit. For me, when I was in Gabon, I remember times where I really had to look at things that were so dark in my family history that I didn't even realize were mine until later connected to my lineage. And the dark darkness connected to that and just feeling that and then knowing really the truth of our being is that we aren't those things. We're in this process of changing and being, and so nothing is is fixed, but there is a alchemical essence in just learning to be with it. And so not always can we just be with something. And and have it change, but there are many times that we can actually just be with those parts of ourselves and be accepting, where it's not like you have to have this intellectualized process It's just like, first you have the negrado, then you tune into the albeda, and you receive the insights, and you journal about it, and da, da, da, da, da Action, Mars aspect of it, the rubeda of the process. It's not like that at all. [00:20:44.15] - Tricia Eastman It's really that the wisdom that comes from it because you're essentially digesting black goo, which is metaphoric to the oil that we use to power all of society that's pulled deep out of the Earth, and it becomes gold. It becomes... And really, the way I like to think of it is like, in life, we are here to create, and we are not here to heal ourselves. So if you go to psychedelic medicine and you want to heal yourself, you're going to be in for... You're just going to be stuck and burnt out because that's not what we're here to do as human beings, and you'll never run out of things to heal. But if you You think of the negrado in alchemy as gasoline in your car. Every time you go back in, it's like refilling your gas tank. And whatever you go back in for as you're moving in the journey, it's almost like that bit of negrado is like a lump of coal that's burning in the gas tank. And that gets you to the next point to which there's another thing related to the creative process. So it's like As you're going in that process, you're going to hit these speed bumps and these obstacles in the way. [00:22:07.29] - Tricia Eastman And those obstacles in the way, that's the healing. So if you just get in the car in the human vehicle and you drive and you continue to pull out the shadow material and face it, you're going to keep having the steam, but not just focus on it, having that intention, having that connection to moving forward in life. And I hate to use those words because they sound so growth and expansion oriented, which life isn't always. It's evolutionary and deevolutionary. It's always in spirals. But ultimately, you're in a creative process would be the best way to orient it. So I think when we look at alchemy from that standpoint, then it's productive. Effective. Otherwise, it sounds like some brand of truffle salt or something. [00:23:09.12] - Joe Moore Yeah, I think it's a... If people want to dig in, amazing. It's just a way to describe processes, and it's super informative if you want to go there, but it's not necessary for folks to do the work. And I like how you framed it quite a bit. So let's see. There is one bit, Tricia, that my ears really went up on this one point about a story about Actually, let me do a tangent for you real quick, and then we're going to come back to this story. So are you familiar with the tribe, the Dogon, in Africa? Of course. Yeah. So they're a group that looks as though they were involved in Jewish and/or Egyptian traditions, and then ended up on the far side of like, what, Western Africa, far away, and had their own evolution away from Egypt and the Middle East. Fascinating. Fascinating stories, fascinating astronomy, and much more. I don't know too much about the religion. I love their masks. But this drew an analogy for me, as you were describing that the Buiti often have stories about having lineage to pre-dynastic Egyptian culture. I guess we'll call it that for now, the Kometic culture. [00:24:44.23] - Joe Moore I had not heard that before. Shame on me because I haven't really read any books about Buiti as a religion or organization, or anything to this point. But I found that really interesting to know that now, at least I'm aware of two groups claiming lineage to that ancient world of magic. Can you speak about that at all for us? Yeah. [00:25:09.24] - Tricia Eastman So first off, there really aren't any books talking about that. Some of the things I've learned from elders that I've spoke with and asked in different lineages in Masoco and in Fong Buiti, there's a few things. One, We lived in many different eras. Even if you go into ancient texts of different religions, creation stories, and biblical stories, they talk about these great floods that wiped out the planet. One of the things that Atum talks about, who is one of my Buiti fathers who passed a couple years ago, is Is the understanding that before we were in these different areas, you had Mu or Lumaria, you had Atlantis, and then you had our current timeline. And the way that consciousness was within those timelines was very different and the way the Earth was. You had a whole another continent called Atlantis that many people, even Plato, talks about a very specific location of. And what happened, I believe during that time period, Africa, at least the Saharan band of the desert was much more lush, and it was a cultural melting pot. So if you think about, for example, the Pygmy tribes, which are in Equatorial Africa, they are the ones that introduced Iboga to the Buiti. [00:27:08.08] - Tricia Eastman If you look at the history of ancient Egypt, what I'm told is that the Pygmies lived in Pharaonic Egypt, all the way up until Pharaonic Egypt. And there was a village. And if you look on the map in Egypt, you see a town called Bawiti, B-A-W-I-T-I. And that is the village where they lived. And I have an interesting hypothesis that the God Bess, if you look at what he's wearing, it's the exact same to a T as what the Pygmies wear. And the inspiration for which a lot of the Buiti, because they use the same symbology, because each part of the outfit, whether it's the Mocingi, which is like this animal skin, or the different feathers, they use the parrot feather as a symbology of speech and communication, all of these things are codes within the ceremony that were passed along. And so when you look at Bess, he's wearing almost the exact same outfit that the Pygmies are wearing and very similar to if you see pictures of the ceremonies of Misoko or Gonde Misoko, which I would say is one of the branches of several branches, but that are closer to the original way of Buiti of the jungle, so closer to the way the Pygmies practice. [00:28:59.16] - Tricia Eastman So If you look at Bess, just to back my hypothesis. So you look at Neteru. Neteru were the... They called them the gods of Egypt, and they were all giant. And many say the word nature actually means nature, but they really represented the divine qualities of nature. There's best. Look at him. And a lot of the historians said he's the God of Harmeline and children and happiness. I think he's more than the God of Harmeline, and I think that the Pygmies worked with many different plants and medicines, and really the ultimate aspect of it was freedom. If you think about liberation, like the libation, number one, that's drunkiness. Number two, liberation, you of freeing the joyous child from within, our true nature of who we are. You look at every temple in Egypt, and you look at these giant statues, and then you have this tiny little pygmy God, and there's no other gods that are like Bess. He's one of a kind. He's in his own category. You've You've got giant Hathor, you've got giant Thoth, you've got giant Osiris, Isis, and then you've got little tiny Bess. And so I think it backs this hypothesis. [00:30:48.27] - Tricia Eastman And my understanding from practitioners of Dogon tradition is that they also believe that their ancestors came from Egypt, and they definitely have a lot of similarity in the teachings that I've seen and been exposed to just from here. I mean, you can... There's some more modern groups, and who's to know, really, the validity of all of it. But there are some, even on YouTube, where you can see there's some more modern Dogon temples that are talking in English or English translation about the teachings, and they definitely line up with Kamehdi teachings. And so my hypothesis around that is that the Dogon are probably most likely pygmy descendants as, And the pygmy were basically run out of Bawiti because there was jealousy with the priest, because there was competition, because all of the offerings that were being made in the temple, there was a lot of power, connected to each of the temples. And there was competitiveness even amongst the different temples, lining the Nile and all of that, of who was getting the most offerings and who was getting the most visits. And so the Pygmies essentially were run out, and they migrated, some of them migrated south to Gabon and Equatorial Africa. [00:32:43.07] - Tricia Eastman And then If you think about the physical changes that happened during these planetary catastrophes, which we know that there had been more than one based on many historical books. So that whole area went through a desertification process, and the Equatorial rainforest remained. So it's highly likely even that Iboga, at one point, grew in that region as well. [00:33:18.00] - Joe Moore Have you ever seen evidence of artwork depicting Iboga there in Egypt? [00:33:24.17] - Tricia Eastman There are several different death temples. I'm trying to remember the name of the exact one that I went to, but on the columns, it looked like Iboga trees that were carved into the columns. And I think what's interesting about this... So Seychet is the divine scribe, the scribe of Egyptian wisdom. And she was basically, essentially the sidekick of Thoth. Thoth was who brought a lot of the ancient wisdom and people like Pythagoras and many of the ancient philosophers in Roman times went and studied in a lot of these Thoth lineage mystery schools. When you look at the the river of the Nile on the east side, east is the energy liturgy of initiation. It's always like if you go into a sweat lodge or if you see an ancient temple, usually the doorway is facing the east. West is where the sun sets, and so that's the death. And what's interesting about that is that it was on the west side in the death temple that you would see these aboga plants. But also Seixat was the one who was the main goddess depicted in the hieroglyphs, and there was other hieroglyphs. I mean, if you look at the hieroglyphs of Seixat, it looks like she has a cannabis leaf above her head, and a lot of people have hypothesized that, that it's cannabis. [00:35:16.03] - Tricia Eastman Of course, historians argue about that. And then she's also carrying a little vessel that looks like it has some mushrooms in it. And obviously, she has blue Lotus. Why would she be carrying around blue Lotus and mushrooms? I don't know. It sounds like some initiation. [00:35:36.19] - Joe Moore Yeah, I love that. Well, thanks so much for going there with me. This photo of Seixet. There's some good animations, but everybody just go look at the temple carvings picturing this goddess. It's stunning. And obviously, cannabis. I think it's hard to argue not. I've seen all these like, mushroom, quote, unquote, mushroom things everywhere. I'm like, Yeah, maybe. But this is like, Yes, that's clear. [00:36:06.27] - Tricia Eastman And if you look at what she's wearing, it's the exact same outfit as Bess, which is classic Basically, how the medicine woman or medicine man or what you would call shaman, the outfit that the healers would wear, the shamans or the oracles, those of the auracular arts, different forms of divination would wear. So if you really follow that and you see, Oh, what's Isis wearing? What's Hathor wearing? What's Thoth wearing? You can tell she's very specifically the healer. And it's interesting because they call her the divine scribe. So she's actually downloading, my guess is she's taking plants and downloading from the primordial. [00:37:02.00] - Joe Moore Well, okay. Thanks for bringing that up. That was a lovely part of your book, was your... There's a big initiation sequence, and then you got to go to this place where you could learn many things. Could you speak to that a little bit? And I hope that's an okay one to bring up. [00:37:22.22] - Tricia Eastman Are you talking about the time that I was in initiation and I went to the different ashrams, the different realms in, like Yogananda calls them astral schools that you go and you just download? It seemed like astral schools, but it seemed like it was a Bwiti initiation, where you were in silence for three days, and then Yeah, that one. So there were several different... I mean, I've done seven official initiations, and then I've had many other initiatic experiences. And I would say this one was incredible. Incredibly profound because what it showed me first was that all of the masters of the planet, it was showing me everyone from Kurt Cobain to Bob Marley to Einstein, all the people that had some special connection to an intelligence that was otherworldly, that they were essentially going to the same place, like they were visiting the same place, and they would go. And so the first thing I noticed was that I recognized a lot of people, and current, I'm not going I don't want to say names of people, but I recognize people that are alive today that I would say are profound thinkers that were going to these places as well. [00:38:57.05] - Tricia Eastman And interestingly, then I was taken into one of the classrooms, and in the classroom, this one, specifically, it showed me that you could download any knowledge instantaneously That essentially, having a connection to that school allowed you to download music or understand very complex ideas ideas of mathematics or physics or science that would take people like lifetimes to understand. So it was essentially showing this. And a lot of people might discredit that, that that might be a specific... That we as humans can do that. Well, I'm not saying that it's not that. I don't I don't want to say that it's anything. But what I can say is that I have definitely noticed the level of access that I have within my consciousness. And also what I notice with the masters of Bwiti, specifically in terms of the level of intelligence that they're accessing and that it's different. It's got a different quality to it. And so it was a really profound teaching. And one of the things, too, that I've learned is I use it to help me learn specific things. I don't know if I can give a positive testimonial, but I am learning French. [00:40:55.00] - Tricia Eastman And I noticed when I was in Aspen at the Abigain meeting, and I was with Mubeiboual, who speaks French, I started saying things French that I didn't even realize that I knew to say. I've had these weird moments where I'm actually using this tool And I'm also using it. I have a Gabonese harp. I don't know if you can see it up on the shelf over there. But I also went and asked for some help with downloading some assistance in the harp, then we'll see how that goes. [00:41:38.17] - Joe Moore Yeah. So that's brilliant. I'm thinking of other precedent for that outside of this context, and I can think of a handful. So I love that, like savant syndrome. And then there's a classic text called Ars Notoria that helps accelerate learning, allegedly. And then there's a number of other really interesting things that can help us gain these bits of wisdom and knowledge. And it does feel a little bit like the Dogon. The story I get is the receiving messages from the dog star, and therefore have all sorts of advanced information that they shouldn't we call it. Yeah. Yeah, which is fascinating. We have that worldwide. I think there's plenty of really interesting stuff here. So what I appreciated, Tricia, about how you're structuring your book, or you did structure your book, is that it it seems at the same time, a memoir, on another hand, workbook, like here are some exercises. On the other hand, like here's some things you might try in session. I really appreciated that. It was like people try to get really complicated when we talk about things like IFS. I'm like, well, you don't necessarily have to. You could. Or is this just a human thing, a human way to look at working with our parts? [00:43:20.15] - Joe Moore I don't know. Do you have any thoughts about the way you were approaching this parts work in your book versus how complicated some people make it feel? [00:43:30.00] - Tricia Eastman Yeah. I find that this is just my personal opinion, and no way to discredit Richard Schwartz's work. But parts work has existed in shamanism since forever. When we really look at even in ancient Egypt, Issus, she put Osiris act together. That was the metaphorical story of soul retrieval, which is really the spiritual journey of us reclaiming these pieces of ourselves that we've been disconnected from a society level or individually. And within the context of parts work, it's very organic and it feels other worldly. It's not like there's ever a force where I'm in the process with someone. And a lot of times I would even go into the process with people because they weren't accustomed to how to work with Iboga or game, and so they would be stuck. And then the minute I was like, you know, Iboga, in the tradition, it's really about... It's like the game Marco Polo. It's call and response. And so you're really an active participant, and you're supposed to engage with the spirits. And so the minute that things would show up, it'd be more about like, oh, what do you see? What's coming up here? Asking questions about it, being curious. [00:45:17.07] - Tricia Eastman If you could engage with it, sometimes there's processes where you can't really engage with things at all. So everything that I'm talking about is It was organically shown up as an active engagement process that it wasn't like we were going in. There have been some where you can guide a little bit, but you never push. It might be something like, go to your house, and it being completely unattached. And if they can't go there, then obviously the psyche doesn't want to go there, but it's really an exercise to help them to connect to their soul. And then in contrast, IFS is like, let's work on these different parts and identify these different parts of ourselves. But then let's give them fixed titles, and let's continually in a non-altered state of consciousness, not when we're meditating, not when we're actively in a state where we have the plasticity to change the pathway in the unconscious mind, but we're working in the egoic mind, and we're talking to these parts of ourselves. That could be helpful in the day-to-day struggles. Let's say you have someone who has a lot of rumination or a very active mind to have something to do with that. [00:46:57.01] - Tricia Eastman But that's not going to be the end-all, be-all solution to their problem. It's only moving the deck chairs around on the Titanic because you're still working in the framework where, I'm sorry, the Titanic is still sinking, and it may or may not be enough. It may or may not produce a reliable outcome that could be connected with some level of true relief and true connection within oneself. And so I think that people just... I feel like they almost get a little too... And maybe it's because we're so isolated and lonely, it's like, Oh, now I've got parts. I'm not by myself. I've got my fire I've got my firefighter, and I've got my guardian, and all these things. And I definitely think that IFS is a really great initiator into the idea of engaging with parts of ourselves and how to talk to them. But I don't think it's... And I think doing a session here and there, for some people, can be incredibly helpful, but to all of a sudden incorporate it in like a dogma is toxic. It's dangerous. And that's what we have to be really careful of. [00:48:23.25] - Joe Moore So thank you for that. There's a complicated discussion happening at the Aspen meeting. I think I was only sitting maybe 30 feet away from you. Sorry, I didn't say hi. But the folks from Blessings of the Forest were there, and I got a chance to chat with a number of them and learn more about nuclear protocols, biopiracy, literal piracy, and smuggling, and the works. I'm curious. This is a really complicated question, and I'm sorry for a complicated question this far in. But it's like, as we talk about this stuff publicly and give it increased profile, we are de facto giving more juice and energy to black markets to pirate. We're adding fuel to this engine that we don't necessarily want to see. Cameroon has nothing left, pretty much. From what I'm told, people from Cameroon are coming in, stealing it from Cabona, bringing it back, and then shipping it out. And there's It's like a whole worldwide market for this stuff. I witnessed it. This stuff. Yeah, right? This is real. So the people, the Buiti, and certain Gabanese farmers, are now being pirated. And international demand does not care necessarily about Nagoya compliance. United States didn't sign Nagoya protocol for this biopiracy protection, but we're not the only violator of these ethics, right? [00:50:00.22] - Joe Moore It's everywhere. So how do we balance thinking about talking about IBOCA publicly, given that there's no clean way to get this stuff in the United States that is probably not pirated materials? And as far as I know, there's only one, quote unquote, Nagoya compliant place. I've heard stories that I haven't shared publicly yet, that there's other groups that are compliant, too. But it's a really interesting conversation, and I'm curious of your perspectives there. [00:50:34.04] - Tricia Eastman I mean, this is a very long, drawn-out question, so forgive me if I give you a long, drawn-out answer. [00:50:41.01] - Joe Moore Go for it. [00:50:41.26] - Tricia Eastman It's all good. So in reality, I do believe... You know the first Ebo, Abogaine, that was done in the country was experiments on eight Black prisoners at a hospital under the MK program. [00:51:01.16] - Joe Moore Pre-lutz off, we were doing Abogaine tests on people. [00:51:06.00] - Tricia Eastman Yeah, so pre-Lutz off. I have a hypothesis, although a lot of people would already know me. [00:51:12.07] - Joe Moore No, I didn't know that. Thank you for sharing that with me. [00:51:14.13] - Tricia Eastman That's great. I'll send you some stuff on that. But the Aboga wanted to be here. The Abogaine wanted to be here. I think it's a complex question because on one side of the coin, you have the spirit of plants, which are wild and crazy sometimes. And then you have the initiatory traditions, which create a scaffolding to essentially put the lightning in a bottle, so to say, so that it's less damaging. [00:51:51.13] - Joe Moore It's almost like a temple structure around it. [00:51:53.16] - Tricia Eastman I like that. Yeah. Put a temple structure around it because it's like, yeah, you can work with new nuclear energy, but you have to wear gloves, you have to do all these different safety precautions. I would say that that's why these traditions go hand in hand with the medicine. So some people might say that the agenda of Iboga and even Abogaine might be a different agenda than the Buiti. And ultimately, whether we are Indigenous or not, the Earth belongs to everyone. It's capitalism and the patriarchy that created all these borders and all these separations between people. And in reality, we still have to acknowledge what the essence of Buiti is, which is really the cause and effect relationship that we have with everything that we do. And so some people might use the term karma. And that is if you're in Abogaine clinic and you're putting a bunch of videos out online, and that's spurring a trend on TikTok, which we already know is a big thing where people are selling illegal market, iBoga, is Is any of that your responsibility? Yes. And if I was to sit down with a kogi kagaba, which are the mamus from Colombia, or if I were to sit down with a who said, Hey, let's do a divination, and let's ask some deep questions about this. [00:53:54.01] - Tricia Eastman It would look at things on a bigger perspective than just like, Oh, this person is completely responsible for this. But when we're talking about a medicine that is so intense, and when I was younger, when I first met the medicine, I first was introduced in 2013 was when I first found out about Abigain and Iboga. And in 2014, I lived with someone who lived with a 14th generation Misoko, maybe it was 10th generation Misoco in Costa Rica. And then he decided to just start serving people medicine. And he left this person paralyzed, one person that he treated for the rest of his life. And Aubrey Marcus, it was his business partner for On It, and he's publicly talked about this, about the story behind this. If you go into his older podcasts and blog posts and stuff, he talks about the situation. And the reality is that this medicine requires a massive amount of responsibility. It has crazy interactions, such as grapefruit juice, for example, and all kinds of other things. And so it's not just the responsibility towards the buiti, it's also the responsibility of, does me talking about this without really talking about the safety and the risks, encourage other people. [00:55:49.10] - Tricia Eastman One of the big problems, back in the day, I went to my first guita conference, Global Abogaine Therapy Alliance in 2016. And And then, ISEARs was debating because there was all these people buying Abogaine online and self-detoxing and literally either dying or ending up in the hospital. And they're like, should we release protocols and just give people instructions on how to do this themselves? And I was like, no, absolutely not. We need to really look at the fact that this is an initiatory tradition, that it's been practiced for thousands of that the minimum level at which a person is administering in Gabon is 10 years of training. The way that we've made up for those mistakes, or sorry, not mistakes, lack of training is that we've used medical oversight. Most of the medical oversight that we've received has been a result of mistakes that were made in the space. The first patient that MAPS treated, they killed them because they gave them way over the amount of what milligrams per kilogram of Abigain that you should give somebody. Every single mistake that was made, which a lot of them related to loss of life, became the global Abogane Therapy Safety Guidelines. [00:57:28.19] - Tricia Eastman And so we've already learned from our mistakes here. And so I think it's really important that we understand that there's that aspect, which is really the blood on our hands of if we're not responsible, if we're encouraging people to do this, and we're talking about it in a casual way on Instagram. Like, yeah, microdosing. Well, did you know there was a guy prosecuted this last year, personal trainer, who killed someone And from microdosing in Colorado, the event happened in 2020, but he just got sentenced early 2025. These are examples that we need to look at as a collective that we need. So that's one side of it. And then the other side of it is the reciprocity piece. And the reciprocity piece related to that is, again, the cause and effect. Is A Abogaine clinic talking about doing Abogaine and doing video testimonials, spurring the efforts that are actively being made in Gabon to protect the cultural lineage and to protect the medicine. The reality is every Abogaine clinic is booked out for... I heard the next year, I don't know if that's fact or fiction, but someone told me for a year, because because of all the stuff with all the celebrities that are now talking about it. [00:59:05.20] - Tricia Eastman And then on top of that, you have all these policy, all these different advocacy groups that are talking about it. Essentially, it's not going to be seven... It's going to be, I would say, seven to 10 years before something gets through the FDA. We haven't even done a phase one safety trial for any of the Abigain that's being commercialized. And even if there's some magic that happens within the Trump administration in the next two years that changes the rules to fast track it, it's not going to cut it down probably more than a year. So then you're looking at maybe six years minimum. That whole time, all that strain is being put on Gabon. And so if you're not supporting Gabon, what's happening is it's losing a battle because the movement is gaining momentum, and Gabon cannot keep up with that momentum. It's a tiny country the size of Colorado. So my belief is that anyone who's benefiting from all the hype around Iboga and Abogayne or personally benefited with healing within themselves should be giving back, either to Ancestral Heart, to Blessings of the Forest, to any group that is doing authentic Indigenous-led biocultural stewardship work. [01:00:45.21] - Joe Moore Thanks for that. It's important that we get into some detail here. I wish we had more time to go further on it. [01:00:54.17] - Tricia Eastman I'll do a quick joke. I know. I have a lot. [01:00:57.17] - Joe Moore Yes. Now do Mike Tyson. Kidding. Yeah. So what did we maybe miss that you want to make sure people hear about your book, any biocultural stuff that you want to get out there? You can go for a few more minutes, too, if you have a few things you want to say. [01:01:20.03] - Tricia Eastman I mean, really, thank you so much for this opportunity. Thank you for caring and being so passionate about the context related to Buiti, which I think is so important. I would just say that I've been working with this medicine for... I've known about it for 13 years, and I've been working with it for 11 years, and this is my life. I've devoted my life to this work, me and my husband, both. And there isn't anything greater of a blessing that it has brought in our life, but it also is it's a very saturnian energy, so it brings chaos. It brings the deepest challenges and forces you to face things that you need to face. But also on the other side of the coin, everything that I've devoted and given back in service to this work has exponentially brought blessing in my life. So again, I see the issue with people doing these shortened processes, whether it's in an Abigain clinic where you just don't have the ritualistic sacred aspects of an initiatic context and really the rituals that really help integrate and ground the medicine. But you still have this opportunity to continue to receive the blessings. [01:03:09.23] - Tricia Eastman And I really feel in our current psychedelic movement, we essentially have a Bugatti. These medicines are the most finely-tuned sports car that can do every... Even more than that, more like a spaceship. We have this incredible tool, but we're driving it in first gear. We don't even really know how to operate it. It's like, well, I guess you could say flight of the Navigator, but that was a self-driving thing, and I guess, psychedelics are self-driving. But I feel that we are discounting ourselves so greatly by not looking into our past of how these medicines were used. I really think the biggest piece around that is consulting the genuine lineage carriers like Buiti elders, like Mubu Bwal, who's the head of Maganga Manan Zembe, And giving them a seat at the head of the table, really, because there's so much I know in my tradition, about what we do to bring cardiac safety. And why is it that people aren't dying as much in Gabon as they're dying in Abigan clinics. [01:04:37.28] - Joe Moore Shots fired. All right. I like it. Thank you. Thank you for everything you've done here today, I think harm reduction is incredibly important. Let's stop people dying out there. Let's do some harm reduction language. I actually was able to sweet talk my way into getting a really cool EKG recently, which I thought really great about. If you can speak clinician, you can go a long way sometimes. [01:05:11.20] - Tricia Eastman Yeah. Oh, no, go ahead. Sorry. [01:05:15.17] - Joe Moore No, that's all. That's all. So harm reduction is important. How do we keep people safe? How do we keep healing people? And thank you for all your hard work. [01:05:27.22] - Tricia Eastman Thank you. I really appreciate it. We're all figuring it out. No one's perfect. So I'm not trying to fire any shots at anybody. I'm just like, Guys, please listen. We need to get in right relationship with the medicine. And we need to include these stakeholders. And on the other side of the coin, I just want to add that there's a lot of irresponsible, claimed traditional practitioners that are running retreat centers in Mexico and Costa Rica and other places that are also causing a lot of harm, too. So the medical monitoring is definitely, if you're going to do anything, Because these people don't have the training, the worst thing you could do is not have someone going in blind that doesn't have training and not have had an EKG and all that stuff. But we've got a long way to go, and I'm excited to help support in a productive way, all coming together. And that's what me and Joseph have been devoted to. [01:06:45.02] - Joe Moore Brilliant. Tricia Eastman, thank you so much. Everybody should go check out your book Seeding Consciousness out now. The audiobook's lovely, too. Thank you so much for being here. And until next time. [01:07:00.14] - Tricia Eastman Thank you.    

Ospiti della 188° puntata di Illuminismo Psichedelico - andata in scena dal vivo al Magazzino Parallelo di Cesena il 5 dicembre 2025 - sono stati l'antropologo nonché eroe dei due mondi di Illuminismo Psichedelico Alfonso Romaniello, e lo psicologo Michele Metelli, nostro vecchio amico. Nella puntata, piuttosto randomica, abbiamo parlato di morte e rinascita nei processi espansi di coscienza, tra reminiscenze junghiane, esperienze psichedeliche (vere e proprie "simulazioni"), riferimenti antropologici alla cultura wixarica in particolare e anche più in generale a quella messicana del Dia del los Muertos. Durante la puntata ci ha anche fatto compagnia il Cervo Azzurro, ovvero una statuetta di arte mara'kame che ha attraversato l'oceano proprio per raggiungermi quel giorno. 

Ospite del 187° episodio di Illuminismo Psichedelico è Carlotta Artuso, curatrice di eventi per Psychedelic Society UK, che in questa puntata ci racconta della sua cerimonia di iniziazione buiti, un rito molto intenso a base di Iboga, che avviene tra i gruppi di etnia Buiti, in Gabon. Come già aveva raccontanto l'etnobotanico Giorgio Samorini nella puntata 136 (I Culti dell'Iboga nel Gabon), in questa regione dell'Africa centro-occidentale, è ancor oggi viva una tradizione al cui centro c'è il consumo della radice essiccata e polverizzata di una pianta, la Tabernanthe iboga, che ha gli effetti di uno psichedelico maggiore, mostrando una durata maggiore di tutti gli altri psichedelici a oggi conosciuti. Inoltre il rito iniziatico del culto dell'iboga presso le etnie buiti è il più lungo ed estremo tra quelli fino a oggi noti, non privo di rischi e di suggestioni. Benché di difficile accesso e non privo di pericoli, da quanto ci racconta Carlotta il turismo occidentale sembra ormai minacciare anche questo tipo di rituale, rischiando di influire sul contesto e sulle dinamiche locali. 

"Mercedes Luján", es guitarrista flamenca, compositora y productora. Nacida en Lorca, Murcia, en el seno de una familia de artistas, Mercedes comenzó su formación musical de la mano de su abuelo paterno, el guitarrista flamenco "Maestro Palmita". Ha acompañado a la guitarra a grandes cantaores flamencos y desde hace años se ha comprometido a dar visibilidad a las mujeres instrumentistas, colaborando con la "Orquesta Firdaus", en Dubái y presentando su espectáculo "Flamencas", que cuenta con una banda femenina. Ahora nos presenta su primer larga duración: "Origen y Revolución" en el que encontramos el origen del flamenco, con la soleá y después la evolución hasta la modernidad, un universo sonoro en el que el bajo, la percusión y los vientos, dialogan con la esencia flamenca y elevan la guitarra flamenca a otro nivel. En el disco encontramos colaboraciones maravillosas como las de José Mercé y Arcángel, entre otros. Hablamos con Mercedes y disfrutamos con este excelente trabajo.""José Carlos Bouso" es doctor en Farmacología y Psicólogo. Lleva más de 30 años investigando los psiquedélicos (MDMA, Ayahuasca, LSD e Ibogaína, entre otros) y es director científico de la "Fundación ICEERS" (International Center for Ethnobotanical Education, Research and Service) y de la clínica "Synáptica", la primera clínica de medicina psiquedélica de España, situada en Barcelona. José Carlos es uno de los mayores expertos internacionales en este campo y viene al programa con su libro "Medicina Psiquedélica"-Manual para pacientes, clínicos, usuarios y curiosos- (Editorial Kairós). En este excelente trabajo José Carlos analiza con detalle la evidencia científica que respalda la seguridad y eficacia de estas sustancias, para tratar una gran variedad de dolencias, tanto físicas como psicológicas y nos explica que, poco a poco, estas sustancias están siendo autorizadas para su uso médico, de ahí la importancia de conocerlas muy bien, darlas a conocer a la población y formar adecuadamente al personal sanitario que va a trabajar con ellas."Escuchar audio

Nurses Out Loud with Kimberly Overton, BSN, RN – From burnout to breakthrough, Kimberly Overton explores the deep healing power of iboga with Dr. Tracy Scott. Through lived experience, science, and spiritual wisdom, they examine trauma-informed plant medicine, ethical facilitation, and true integration, revealing how restoration, safety, and faith guide lasting transformation and a return home to yourself...

Nurses Out Loud with Kimberly Overton, BSN, RN – From burnout to breakthrough, Kimberly Overton explores the deep healing power of iboga with Dr. Tracy Scott. Through lived experience, science, and spiritual wisdom, they examine trauma-informed plant medicine, ethical facilitation, and true integration, revealing how restoration, safety, and faith guide lasting transformation and a return home to yourself...

In this episode, I sit down with Gerard Powell, a man who had it all from the outside—multimillions, fast cars, and luxury homes—but was utterly broken inside. After decades of self-destruction, and two suicide attempts, even intensive therapy couldn't reach the root of his pain. In a final, desperate act, he turned to plant medicine. What happened there didn't just save his life; it revealed a childhood trauma he had completely buried and gave him a new heart—literally. Jerry now runs Rythmia, a licensed plant medicine center, and shares the data-backed transformations he's witnessed in nearly 20k people. This conversation is a raw look at how we can become disconnected from our soul and the powerful paths that can lead us back home. 00:00 Intro 05:07 Gerard's Story 07:09 The Depths of Self-Hatred 09:17 5 Years of Intensive Therapy 17:26 The Desperate Trip to Costa Rica and Iboga 17:54 Childhood Sexual Trauma 25:30 Forgiving His Grandfather 26:18 Receiving a New Heart 32:58 Building Rythmia to Help Others 42:40 Healing Physical Ailments 59:14 Are You Out of Sync with Your Soul? 01:04:11 Why Plant Medicine is Suppressed 01:14:15 Final Message Learn More:· Rythmia Life Advancement Center: www.rhythmia.com In The Space Between membership, you'll get access to LIVE quarterly Ask Amy Anything meetings (not offered anywhere else!), discounts on courses, special giveaways, and a place to connect with Amy and other like-minded people. You'll also get exclusive access to other behind-the-scenes goodness when you join! Click here to find out more --> https://shorturl.at/vVrwR Stay Connected: - IG - https://tinyurl.com/ysvafdwc- FB - https://tinyurl.com/yc3z48v9- YouTube - https://tinyurl.com/ywdsc9vt- Website - https://tinyurl.com/ydj949kt Life, Death & the Space Between Dr. Amy RobbinsExploring life, death, consciousness and what it all means. Put your preconceived notions aside as we explore life, death, consciousness and what it all means on Life, Death & the Space Between.** Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

What if the path to healing required facing your deepest fears?Nahum Vizakis went from defusing explosive devices in Iraq to becoming a spiritual bodybuilder and plant medicine facilitator. His story is raw, unfiltered, and proof that healing is never linear.In this episode, Nahum opens up about: ●The IED moment in Iraq that planted the seed of existential doubt and shattered his identity●The medication nightmare: 16 different prescriptions, hallucinations, night terrors, and the day he quit cold turkey●How transforming his body helped him survive PTSD, but fed his ego in dangerous ways●His first ayahuasca ceremony●Why the fascia system isn't taught in medical school (and why that matters)●The 2-hour somato-emotional release that changed everything, in front of his entire massage school class●The toxic relationship that cracked his heart open and taught him the difference between love and attachment●The custody battle that cost him $200K, his health, and nearly his life●His mentor's death: How Bryce overdosed after accidentally killing someone during an Iboga ceremony●Ketamine addiction: The 7-day spiral that almost ended his life●How to get unstuck: Why changing your state is the first step to breaking the negative feedback loopNahum doesn't sugarcoat anything. This conversation covers PTSD, addiction, plant medicine safety, spiritual bypassing, energetic boundaries, and what it really means to live from the heart.✨ Watch the full episode, and if it resonates, share it with someone who needs to hear this. Your health matters.Connect with Nahum Justin VizakisInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/spiritual_bodybuilder/Website: https://www.optimizinghuman.com/YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCfBmmf1OpYLL7JrD2ExMQLA FOLLOW USInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/toxicfree.kb TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@toxicfreewithkb SHOP My Favorite Clean Living & Wellness Products:MASA Chips (25% OFF) – Code: TOXICFREEKB https://www.masachips.com/TOXICFREEKBVANDY Crisps (25% OFF) – Code: TOXICFREEKB https://vandycrisps.com/TOXICFREEKBLightStim (10% OFF) – Code: TOXICFREEKB https://LightStim.comSunlighten Saunas – Code: TOXICFREEKB https://get.sunlighten.com/toxicfreekbDelavie Science Skincare (25% OFF) – Code: TOXICFREEhttps://delaviesciences.pxf.io/c/2328608/2331067/26421Branch Basics (15% OFF Starter Kits) – Code: TOXICFREEKBhttps://branchbasics.com/TOXICFREEKBMore recommendations at: https://toxicfree.com

Klipsun now introduces his new aesthetic with Iboga and steps into the void with a bold and twisted re-imagination of Electrypnose's Gentle Frightscaping. This reinterpretation doesn't just flip the script - it dissolves it entirely. Cinematic, warped, loopy, and richly psychedelic, the track spirals through unexpected turns and playful distortions, all while maintaining a hypnotic groove that keeps the mind wide open. A creative trip deep into the funhouse mirror of sound. Strange, imaginative, and irresistibly trippy - just the way we like it on Iboga.

Cada año, Costa Rica recibe millones de turistas de todas partes del mundo. Se ha posicionado como un destino seguro para admirar belleza natural sin igual y disfrutar de un estilo de “pura vida”. Pero últimamente, el país también ha atraído a cientos de personas buscando sanación con medicinas ancestrales indígenas. Y en agosto del 2024, un incidente expuso una cara turbia de lo que pasa en esos retiros espirituales. En nuestro sitio web puedes encontrar una transcripción del episodio. Or you can also check this English translation. ♥ Vivimos tiempos difíciles. Somos un medio sin ánimo de lucro, y nuestra permanencia depende de oyentes como tú. Si valoras nuestro trabajo, únete a Deambulantes, nuestras membresías. Ayúdanos a elevar las voces latinas y narrar la experiencia de nuestras comunidades. Tu aporte se invierte directamente en nuestro trabajo periodístico y hace toda la diferencia. ★ Si no quieres perderte ningún episodio, suscríbete a nuestro boletín y recibe todos los martes un correo. Además, los viernes te enviaremos cinco recomendaciones inspiradoras del equipo para el fin de semana. ✓ ¿Nos escuchas para mejorar tu español? Tenemos algo extra para ti: prueba nuestra app Jiveworld, diseñada para estudiantes intermedios de la lengua que quieren aprender con nuestros episodios. Every year, Costa Rica welcomes millions of tourists from around the world, eager to admire its unparalleled natural beauty and enjoy a “pura vida” lifestyle. But lately, the country has also attracted another kind of tourist too: hundreds of foreigners seeking healing with ancestral indigenous medicines. And in August 2024, a tragic incident revealed a dark side of these spiritual and wellness retreats.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

If you're on Instagram, you may have come across Brian's work before. His grounded, relatable approach helps people deepen their relationship with themselves and others. He's developed a system called SIBS—Somatic Work, Inner Child Work, Breathwork, and Support—which has guided his clients through what might be the most challenging spiritual path there is: the yoga of relationships.While we don't use that term on the show, it kept coming to mind as I re-listened to Brian's story and insights. In traditional yoga, we unite body, breath, and mind to return to the Self. In the yoga of relationships, we do the same—but with other humans. Our partners become mirrors, and pretty much every emotion becomes an invitation to see where we're still attached, defended, or separate from love. In this way, our partners, friends, and family become our greatest teachers—not because they're perfect, but because they reveal the parts of us that are not yet free.It's confronting, profound work, and it's the path Brian has committed himself to and has helped countless others within. Highlights from this episode: - His transformative initiation with Iboga and the Bwiti tradition, and how working with plant medicine refined his understanding of healing- The breakup that became a breakthrough — how his wife, Hope, leaving deepened their love, marriage, and spiritual growth- Simple, powerful tools to regulate your nervous system and support the vagus nerve when conflict or triggers arise - A mysterious recurring illness that finally shifted when Brian faced his buried shame and let go of his “hero” complex within his coaching businessConnect with Brian: https://awakeningwithbrian.com/ https://www.instagram.com/awakeningwithbrian/ Related Episodes: Whispers of Letting Go of Who You Thought You Were with Hope YangWhispers of Owning Your Light (Language) with Hope YangWhispers of Breakups, Heartache, and the Greatest Love Story of All TimeWhispers of Gabon and My Initiation with the BwitiIf you'd like to connect with Stephanie, you can find her here:Instagram-@schoolofwhispers @__steef___ email-schoolofwhispers@gmail.com DISCLAIMER: This podcast is presented for educational and exploratory purposes only. Published content is not intended to be used for diagnosing or treating any illness. Those responsible for this show disclaim responsibility for any possible adverse effects from the use of information presented by Stephanie or her guests.

Hey everybody! Episode 170 of the show is out. In this episode, I spoke with Tricia Eastman. I recently came across Tricia's work and was really impressed with all she has been doing. It seemed we had a similar journey. I was happy to sit down and learn more about her and as she shared was very impressed with her presence and wisdom. We spoke about her journey with ayahuasca, her time working in an ibogaine clinic, her Bwiti initiations with iboga, ancestral lineages she has studied with, and some of the wisdom of this work she has learned along the way. This was a really beautiful and insightful conversation and a real joy for me to listen to her. As always, to support this podcast, get early access to shows, bonus material, and Q&As, check out my Patreon page below. Enjoy!This episode is sponsored by La Wayra Ayahuasca retreats. Visit https://ayahuascaincolombia.com to book your retreat or learn more and mention UWP and they will gift you a free body-work session during your stay.To learn more about or contact Tricia, visit her links at: https://lnk.bio/7zGeTo learn more about our work, visit our website: https://NicotianaRustica.orgTo view the recent documentary, Sacred Tobacco, about my work, visit: https://youtu.be/KB0JEQALI_wIf you enjoy the show, it would be a big help if you could share it with your own audiences via social media or word of mouth. And please Subscribe or Follow and if you can go on Apple Podcasts and leave a starred-rating and a short review. That would be super helpful with the algorithms and getting this show out to more people. Thank you in advance!I will be guiding our next plant medicine dieta with my colleague Merav Artzi (who I interviewed in episode 28) in the Sacred Valley of Peru November 2-30 (SOLD OUT). If you would like more information about joining us and the work I do or about future retreats, visit my site at: https://NicotianaRustica.orgIntegration/Consultation call: https://jasongrechanik.setmore.comPatreon: https://patreon.com/UniverseWithinYouTube join & perks: https://bit.ly/YTPerksPayPal, donate: https://paypal.me/jasongrechanikWebsite: https://UniverseWithinPodcast.comInstagram: https://instagram.com/UniverseWithinPodcastFacebook: https://facebook.com/UniverseWithinPodcastMusic: Nuno Moreno: https://m.soundcloud.com/groove_a_zen_sound & Stefan Kasapovski's Santero Project: https://spoti.fi/3y5Rd4H

Episode summary Joe and Mary dive into how platform censorship and shifting algorithms have reshaped psychedelic media, why DoubleBlind moved to a “newsletter-first” model, and what that's revealed about true audience engagement. They reflect on the post-2024 MDMA decision headwinds, state-level policy moves (wins and losses), and how funding, politics, and culture continue to reconfigure the field. They also explore alternatives to alcohol, chronic pain research, reciprocity around iboga/ibogaine, and lessons from PS25 (MAPS' Psychedelic Science 2025). Highlights & themes From platforms to inboxes: Social and search suppression (IG/FB/Google) throttled harm-reduction journalism; DoubleBlind's pivot to email dramatically improved reach and engagement. Post-MDMA decision reality: Investment cooled; Mary frames it as painful but necessary growth—an ecosystem “airing out” rather than a catastrophic pop. Policy pulse: Mixed year—some state measures stalled (e.g., MA), others advanced (e.g., NM; ongoing Colorado process). Rescheduling cannabis may add complexity more than clarity. Censorship paradox: Suppressing education makes use less safe; independent outlets need community support to keep harm-reduction info visible. Chronic pain & long COVID: Emerging overlaps and training efforts (e.g., Psychedelics & Pain communities) point beyond a psychiatry-only frame. Alcohol alternatives: Low-dose or occasional psychedelic use can shift habits for some; Mary stresses individual context and support beyond any single substance. Reciprocity & iboga: Rising interest (including from right-leaning funders) must include Indigenous consultation and fair benefit-sharing; pace of capitalism vs. community care is an active tension. PS25 field notes: Smaller, more manageable vibe than 2023; fewer “gold-rush” expectations; in-person dialogue beats online flame wars. Notable mentions DoubleBlind: Newsletter-first publishing; nurturing new writers and reported stories. Psychedelics & Pain Association / Clusterbusters: Community-driven models informing care and research (cluster headache protocols history). Books & media: Body Autonomy (Synergetic Press anthology); Joanna Kempner's work on cluster headaches - Psychedelic Outlaws; Lucy Walker's forthcoming iboga film. Compounds to watch: LSD (under-studied relative to MDMA), 2C-B, 5-MeO-DMT (synthetic focus), and broader Shulgin-inspired families.   Mary Carreon: [00:00:00] Okay, I'm gonna send it to my dad because he wants to know. Here Joe Moore: we go. Yeah, send it over. So, hi everybody. We're live Joe here with Mary Anne, how you doing today? Mary Carreon: I'm great Joe. How are you? Joe Moore: Lovely. I actually never asked you how to pronounce your last name does say it right? Mary Carreon: Yes, you did. You said it perfectly Joe Moore: lovely. Joe Moore: Um, great. So it's been a bit, um, we are streaming on LinkedIn, YouTube, Twitch X and Kick, I guess. Yeah. Kick meta. Meta doesn't let me play anymore. Um, Mary Carreon: you're in forever. Timeout. I got it. I got it. Yeah. Joe Moore: Yeah. I think they found a post the other day from 2017. They didn't like, I'm like, oh cool. Like neat, you Mary Carreon: know, you know. Mary Carreon: Yeah. That happened to me recently, actually. Uh, I had a post taken down from 2018 about, uh, mushroom gummies and yeah, it was taken down and I have strikes on my account now. So Joe Moore: Do you get the thing where they ask you if you're okay? Mary Carreon: Yes, with, but like with my searches though, [00:01:00] like if I search something or, or someone's account that has, uh, like mushroom or psychedelic or LSD or something in it, they'll be like, mm-hmm are you okay? Mary Carreon: And then it recommends getting help. So Joe Moore: it's like, to be fair, I don't know if I'm okay, but Yeah, you're like, probably not. I don't really want your help. Meta. Yeah. Mary Carreon: You're like, I actually do need help, but not from you. Thanks. Yeah, Joe Moore: yeah, yeah. Mary Carreon: So not from the techno fascists. Joe Moore: Oh, good lord. Yeah. Uh, we'll go there. Joe Moore: I'm sure. Mary Carreon: I know. I just like really dove right there. Sorry. Yeah. All right, so let's, Joe Moore: um, before we go, let's give people like a bit of, you know, high kicks on, on who is Mary, where you working these days and what are you doing? Mary Carreon: Yeah, thank you. My name is Mary Carryon and I am forever and first and foremost a journalist. Mary Carreon: I have been covering, I say the plant legalization spaces for the past decade. It's, it's been nine and a half years. Uh, on January 3rd it will be [00:02:00] 10 years. And I got my start covering cannabis, uh, at OC Weekly. And from there went to High Times, and from there went to Mary Jane, worked for Snoop Dogg. And then, uh, I am now. Mary Carreon: Double blind. And I have become recently, as of this year, the editor in chief of Double Blind, and that's where I have been currently sinking my teeth into everything. So currently, you know, at this moment I'm an editor and I am basically also a curator. So, and, and somebody who is a, uh, I guess an observer of this space more than anything these days. Mary Carreon: Um, I'm not really reporting in the same way that I was. Um, but still I am helping many journalists tell stories and, uh, I feel kind of like a story midwife in many ways. Just like helping people produce stories and get the, get the quotes, get the angles that need to be discussed, get the sentences structures right, and, um, uh, helping [00:03:00] sometimes in a visionary kind of, uh, mindset. Mary Carreon: So yeah, that's what I'm doing these days. Joe Moore: Oh, there it is. Oh, there you are. Love that. And um, you know, it's important to have, um, editors who kind of really get it from a lot of different angles. I love that we have a lot of alignment on this kind of, and the drug war thing and kind of let's, uh, hopefully start developing systems that are for people. Joe Moore: Yeah, absolutely. If you wanna just say that. Yeah, absolutely. Mary Carreon: Yeah, absolutely. Joe Moore: So, um, yeah, I almost 10 years in January. That's great. We um, it's so crazy that it's been that long. I think we just turned nine and a half, so we're maybe just a few, a few months shorter than your I love it. Plant medicine reporting career. Joe Moore: That's great. I love it. Um, yeah, so I think. I think one of the first times we chatted, [00:04:00] um, I think you were doing a piece about two cb Do you, do you have any recollection of doing a piece on two cb? Mary Carreon: I do, yes. Yes. Wait, I also remember hitting you up during an Instagram live and I was like, are you guys taking any writers? Mary Carreon: And you guys were like writers, I mean, maybe depending on the writer. Joe Moore: And I was like, I was like, I dunno how that works. Mary Carreon: Like me. Yeah. Joe Moore: Yeah. It was fun. It was fun to work with people like yourself and like get pieces out there. And eventually we had an awesome editor for a bit and that was, that was really cool to be able to like support young startup writers who have a lot of opinions and a lot of things to point out. Joe Moore: There's so much happening. Um, there was so much fraud in like wave one. Of kind of the psychedelic investment hype. There's still some, but it's lesser. Um, and it's really a fascinating space still. Like changing lives, changing not just lives, right? Like our [00:05:00] perspective towards nearly everything, right? Joe Moore: Yeah. Mary Carreon: Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. I mean, it's interesting because the space has matured. It's evolved. It's different than it was even, what a, I mean, definitely nine years ago, but even five years ago, even four years ago, even last year, things are different. The landscape is different than it was a year ago. Mary Carreon: And I, it's, it's interesting to see the politics of things. It's interesting to see who has money these days given like how hard it is just to kind of survive in this space. And it's interesting just to. Bear witness to all of this going down because it really is a once in a lifetime thing. Nothing is gonna look the same as it does now, as it, uh, then it will like in a, in a year from now or anything. Mary Carreon: So it's really, yeah. It's interesting to take account of all of this Joe Moore: That's so real. Uh, maybe a little [00:06:00] too real, like it's serious because like with everything that's going on from, um, you know, governance, governments, ai Yes. Drug policy shifts. Drug tech shifts, yes. There's so much interesting movement. Um, yes. Joe Moore: You, you know, you, you kind of called it out and I think it's really actually worth discussing here since we're both here on the air together, like this idea that the psychedelic market, not idea, the lived experience of the psychedelic market having shifted substantially. And I, I, I think there's a lot of causes. Joe Moore: But I've never had the opportunity to really chat with you about this kind of like interesting downturn in money flowing into the space. Mm-hmm. Have you thought about it? Like what might the causes be? I'm sure you have. Mary Carreon: Yeah. Yeah, I have. Yeah. I've thought about it. I mean, it's hard. Well, I don't know. I am really not trying to point fingers and that's not what I'm [00:07:00] trying to do here. Mary Carreon: But I mean, I think a lot of people were really hopeful that the FDA decision last June, not last June, the previous June, a year ago, 2024, June was going to open the floodgates in terms of funding, in terms of, um. In terms of mostly funding, but also just greater opportunities for the space and, uh, greater legitimacy granted to the psychedelic medicine space. Mary Carreon: Mm. And for those who might not know what I'm talking about, I'm talking about the, uh, FDA decision to reject, uh, MDMA assisted therapy and, um, that whole, that whole thing that happened, I'm sure if it, you didn't even have to really understand what was going on in order to get wind of that wild situation. Mary Carreon: Um, so, so maybe, yeah. You probably know what I'm talking about, but I, I do think that that had a great impact on this space. Do I think it was detrimental to this space? [00:08:00] I don't think so. We are in a growth spurt, you know, like we are growing and growing pains happen when you are evolving and changing and learning and figuring out the way forward. Mary Carreon: So I think it was kind of a natural process for all of this and. If things had gone forward like while, yeah, there probably would be more money, there would be greater opportunity in this space for people wanting to get in and get jobs and make a living and have a life for themselves in this, in this world. Mary Carreon: I don't know if it was, I don't know if it would necessarily be for the betterment of the space in general for the long term. I think that we do have to go through challenges in order for the best case scenarios to play out in the future, even though that's difficult to say now because so many of us are struggling. Mary Carreon: So, but I, but I have hope and, and that statement is coming from a place of hope for the future of this space and this culture. Joe Moore: Yeah. It's, um, I'm with [00:09:00] you. Like we have to see boom bust cycles. We have to see growth and contraction just like natural ecosystems do. Mary Carreon: Absolutely, absolutely. It has to be that way. Mary Carreon: And if it's not that way, then ifs, if. It's, it like what forms in place of that is a big bubble or like a, a hot air balloon that's inevitably going to pop, which, like, we are kind of experiencing that. But I think that the, I think that the, um, the, the air letting out of the balloon right now is a much softer experience than it would be if everything was just like a green light all the way forward, if that makes sense. Mary Carreon: So, Joe Moore: right. And there's, there's so many factors. Like I'm, I'm thinking about, uh, metas censorship like we were talking about before. Yes. Other big tech censorship, right? Mm-hmm. SEO shifts. Mary Carreon: Oh. Um, yes, absolutely. Also, uh, there were some pretty major initiatives on the state level that did not pass also this past year that really would've also kind of [00:10:00] helped the landscape a little bit. Mary Carreon: Um. In terms of creating jobs, in terms of creating opportunities for funding, in terms of having more, uh, like the perception of safer money flow into the space and that, you know, those, those things didn't happen. For instance, the measure for in Massachusetts that didn't go through and just, you know, other things that didn't happen. Mary Carreon: However, there have been really good things too, in terms of, uh, legalization or various forms of legalization, and that's in New Mexico, so we can't, you know, forget that there, and we also can't forget just the movement happening in Colorado. So there are really great things happening and the, the movement is still moving forward. Mary Carreon: Everything is still going. It's just a little more difficult than maybe it could have been Joe Moore: right. Yeah. Amen. Amen. Yes. But also, we Mary Carreon: can't forget this censorship thing. The censorship thing is a horse shit. Sorry. I'm not sure if I'm allowed to cuss, but it is, [00:11:00] but it is Joe Moore: calling it out and it's important to say this stuff. Joe Moore: And you know, folks, if you want to support independent media, please consider supporting Doubleblind and psychedelics today. From a media perspective, absolutely. We wanna wanna put as much out as we can. Yes. The more supporters we have, the more we can help all of you understand what's happening and yes. Joe Moore: Getting you to stay safer. Mary Carreon: Yeah, absolutely. And that's the whole difficulty with the censorship is that psychedelics today, and Doubleblind for instance, but also Lucid News, also other, uh, other influencers, other creators in the space, they like. What all of us are doing is putting out information that is ultimately creating a safer user experience. Mary Carreon: And so with the censorship, we are not able to do so anymore, which creates actually a lot of danger. So. Yeah, it's, it's difficult. The censorship is difficult, and if you are somebody who posts about psychedelics, I know that you know this and I am preaching to the choir. Joe Moore: Yeah. So can you talk a [00:12:00] little bit about you all at Double Blind made a major shift in the last number of months towards, uh, kind of not necessarily putting everything out there and, and kind of like, um, actually I don't even know the language you use. Joe Moore: What's the, what's the language you use for the kind of model shift you took on? Mary Carreon: Yeah, I mean, it's great. It's been a wild shift. It's been a wild shift. Um, what we are currently doing is we went to a newsletter first model, which instead of just posting onto a website for everyone to see, and then, um, you know, hopefully getting SEO hits and also posting on their, then posting those stories onto Instagram and Facebook and Twitter, and hoping to get traffic through social media. Mary Carreon: Uh, we decided that that was no longer working for us because it wasn't, um, because the censorship is so bad on, on social media, like on Instagram, for instance, and Facebook and Twitter, well, less on Twitter, [00:13:00] but still, nonetheless on social media, the censorship is so bad. And also the censorship exists on Google. Mary Carreon: When you Google search how to take mushrooms, double blinds is not even on. You know, our guide is not on the first page. It's like, you know, way the heck, way the heck down there. Maybe page 2, 3, 4, 5. I don't know. But, um, the issue, the issue with that, or, or the reason why rather that it's that way is because Google is prioritizing, um, like rehabilitation centers for this information. Mary Carreon: And also they are prioritizing, uh, medical information. So, like WebMD for instance. And all of these organizations that Google is now prioritizing are u are, are, are, are organizations that see psychedelic use through the lens of addiction or through drug drug abuse. So [00:14:00] again, you know, I don't know, take it for how you want to, I'm not gonna say, I'm not gonna tell anybody like what is the right way to use their substances or whatever. Mary Carreon: However, it's really important to have the proper harm reduction resources and tools available. Uh, just readily available, not five pages down on a Google search. So anyways, all of that said double blind was our traffic was way down. And it was looking very bleak for a while. Just we were getting kicked off of Instagram. Mary Carreon: We weren't getting any traffic from social media onto our website, onto our stories. It was a, it was a vicious kind of cycle downward, and it wasn't really working. And there was a moment there where Doubleblind almost shut down as a result of these numbers because there's a, like you, a media company cannot sustain itself on really low page views as a result. Mary Carreon: So what we [00:15:00] decided to do was go to a newsletter first model, which relies on our email list. And basically we are sending out newsletters three days a week of new original content, mostly, uh, sometimes on Wednesdays we repost an SEO story or something like that. Um, to just to engage our audience and to work with our audience that way, and to like to actually engage our audience. Mary Carreon: I cannot emphasize that enough because on Instagram and on Facebook, we were only reaching like, I don't know, not that many people, like not that many people at all. And all of that really became obvious as soon as we started sending out to our email list. And as soon as we did that, it was wild. How many, how many views to the website and also how many just open like our open rate and our click through rate were showing how our audience was reacting to our content. Mary Carreon: In other words. [00:16:00] Social media was not a good, in, like, was not a good indicator of how our content was being received at all because people kind of weren't even receiving it. So going to the newsletter first model proved to be very beneficial for us and our numbers. And also just reaching our freaking audience, which we were barely doing, I guess, on social media, which is, which is wild, you know, for, for a, an account that has a lot of followers, I forget at this exact moment, but we have a ton, double blind, has a ton of followers on, on Instagram. Mary Carreon: We were, we, we get like 500 likes or, you know, maybe like. I don't know. If you're not looking at likes and you're looking at views, like sometimes we get like 16 K views, which, you know, seems good, but also compared to the amount of followers who follow us, it's like not really that great. And we're never reaching new, like a new audience. Mary Carreon: We're always reaching the same audience too, [00:17:00] which is interesting because even with our news, with our, with our email list, we are still reaching new people, which is, which says just how much more fluid that space is. Mm-hmm. And it's because it's, because censorship does not at least yet exist in our inboxes. Mary Carreon: And so therefore email is kind of like the underground, if you will, for this kind of content and this type of material journalism, et cetera. So, so yeah. So it, it, it has been a massive shift. It is required a lot of changes over at double blind. Everything has been very intense and crazy, but it has been absolutely worth it, and it's really exciting that we're still here. Mary Carreon: I'm so grateful that Double-Blind is still around, that we are still able to tell stories and that we are still able to work with writers and nurture writers and nurture the storytelling in this space because it needs to evolve just the same way that the industry and the [00:18:00] culture and everything else is evolving. Joe Moore: Yeah, I think, I think you're spot on like the, when I watch our Instagram account, like, um, I haven't seen the number change from 107 K for two years. Mary Carreon: Absolutely. Same. And, um, same. Joe Moore: Yeah. And you know, I think, I think there's certain kinds of content that could do fine. I think, uh, psychedelic attorney, Robert Rush put up a comment, um, in response to Jack Coline's account getting taken down, um, that had some good analysis, um. Joe Moore: Of the situation. Go ahead. You had No, Mary Carreon: no, I'm just like, you know, I can't, when, when journalists are getting kicked off of these, of these platforms for their stories, for their reported stories, that's like, that is a massive red flag. And that's all I have to say. I mean, we could go into more, more details on that, but that is a [00:19:00] huge red flag. Joe Moore: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Um, for sure. The, I, yeah. And like I'm sure he'll get it back. I'm sure that's not for good, but I think he did. Okay, great. Mary Carreon: I think he did. Yeah. Yeah, I think he did. Joe Moore: Yeah. So thank you. Shout out to Jack. Yeah, thanks Jack. Um, and I think, you know, there's, there's no one with that kind of energy out there. Joe Moore: Um, and I'm excited to see what happens over time with him. Yeah. How he'll unfold. Absolutely unfold. Oh yeah. It's like, um. Crushing the beat. Mary Carreon: Oh yeah, absolutely. Especially the political, the political beat. Like, there's no, there's few people who are really tackling that specific sector, which is like mm-hmm. Mary Carreon: So exciting for a journalist. Joe Moore: Yeah. Um, so model shifting, like we all have to like, adapt in new ways. Kyle and I are still trying to figure out what we're gonna do. Like maybe it is newsletter first. Like I, I realized that I hadn't been writing for [00:20:00] years, which is problematic, um, in that like, I have a lot of things to say. Mary Carreon: Totally. Joe Moore: And nobody got to hear it. Um, so I started a substack, which I had complicated feelings about honestly. 'cause it's just another. Rich person's platform that I'm, you know, helping them get Andreessen money or whatever. And, you know, so I'm gonna play lightly there, but I will post here and there. Um, I'm just trying to figure it all out, you know, like I've put up a couple articles like this GLP one and Mushrooms article. Mary Carreon: I saw that. I saw that. Really? And honestly, that's a really, like, it's so weird, but I don't, like, it's such a weird little thing that's happening in the space. I wonder, yeah, I wonder, I wonder how that is going to evolve. It's um, you know, a lot of people, I, I briefly kind of wrote about, um, psychedelics and the GLP, is that what it is? Mary Carreon: GLP one. Joe Moore: GLP one. Say Ozempic. Yeah, just, yeah, Ozempic. Yeah, exactly. Mary Carreon: Yeah, exactly. I wrote about [00:21:00] that briefly last year and there were a bunch of people like obviously horrified, which it is kind of horrifying, but also there's a bunch of people who believe that it is extremely cutting edge, which it also is. Mary Carreon: So it's really interesting, really fascinating. Joe Moore: Yeah. Um, I remember Bernie Sanders saying like, if this drug gets as much traction as it needs to, it will bankrupt Medicaid. I guess that's not really a problem anymore. Um, but, but, uh, but so like naming it real quick, like it changed the way we had to digest things, therefore, like mushrooms get digested differently and, um, some people don't respond in the expected ways. Joe Moore: And then there was some follow up, oh, we, in the regulated model, we just do lemon tech. And then I was like, is that legal in the regulated model? And I, I don't know the answer still. Mm-hmm. Like there was a couple things, you know, if users know to do it, you know, I don't, I don't totally understand the regulated model's so strange in Oregon, Colorado, that like, we really need a couple lawyers opinions. Joe Moore: Right. I think Mary Carreon: yes, of course Joe Moore: the lawyers just gave it a [00:22:00] thumbs up. They didn't even comment on the post, which is, laughs: thanks guys. Um, Joe Moore: but you know, laughs: yeah. You're like, thank you. Joe Moore: Thanks and diversity of opinions. So yeah, there's that. And like GLP ones are so interesting in that they're, one friend reached out and said she's using it in a microdose format for chronic neuroinflammation, which I had never heard of before. Joe Moore: Whoa. And um, I think, you know, articles like that, my intent was to just say, Hey, researchers yet another thing to look at. Like, there's no end to what we need to be looking at. Abso Mary Carreon: Oh, absolutely, absolutely. You know, reporting on this space actually taught me that there's so much just in general that isn't being researched, whether that's in this space, but also beyond and how, um, yeah, just how behind, actually, maybe not, maybe behind isn't the right word, but it kind of feels from my novice and from my novice place in the, in the world and [00:23:00] understanding research, it's. Mary Carreon: Hard for me to see it as anything, but being behind in the research that we all really need, that's really going to benefit humanity. But also, you know, I get that it's because of funding and politics and whatever, whatever, you know, we can go on for days on all of that. Joe Moore: What's the real reason? What's the real reason? Joe Moore: Well, drug war. Mary Carreon: Yeah. Well, yeah, definitely the drug war. Nixon. Yeah. Yes, yes, definitely the drug war. Yeah. I mean, and just the fact that even all of the drug research that happens is, again, through the lens of addiction and drug abuse, so Joe Moore: mm-hmm. Hard to right. Yeah. Um, like ni a is obviously really ridiculous and, and the way they approach this stuff, and Carl Hart illustrates that well, and, Mary Carreon: oh man, yes, he does. Joe Moore: Like, I think Fadiman's lab in Palo Alto got shut down, like 67, 66 or 67, and like that's, you know, that was one of the later ones, Mary Carreon: right? And, Joe Moore: and like, Mary Carreon: and here we are. Joe Moore: The amount of suffering that could have been alleviated if we [00:24:00] had not done this is. Incalculable. Um, yes. Yes. Yeah. Mary Carreon: I mean the, yeah, it's hard to say exactly how specifically it would be different, but it's difficult to also not think that the fentanyl crisis and the opioid addiction rate and situation that is currently like plaguing the, the world, but particularly the United States, it's hard to think that it wouldn't be, like, it wouldn't be a different scenario altogether. Joe Moore: Right, right. Absolutely. Um, and it's, um, it's interesting to speculate about, right? Like Yeah. Yes. Where would we be? And Mary Carreon: I know, I know, I know, I know it is speculation. Absolutely. But it's like hard, as I said, it's hard not to think that things would be different. Joe Moore: Right. Right. Um, I like, there's two kind of quotes, like, um, not, this one's not really a quote. Joe Moore: Like, we haven't really had a [00:25:00] blockbuster psychiatric med since Prozac, and I think that was in the eighties or early nineties, which is terrifying. And then, um, I think this guy's name is James Hillman. He is kinda like a Jungian, um, educator and I think the title of one of his books is, we're a hundred Years Into Psychotherapy and the World is Still a Mess. Joe Moore: And I think like those two things are like, okay, so two different very white people approaches didn't go very far. Yes. Um, yes and laughs: mm-hmm. Joe Moore: Thankfully, I think a lot of people are seeing that. Mm-hmm. Um, finally and kind of putting energy into different ways. Um, Mary Carreon: yeah. Absolutely. I think, yeah, I mean, we need to be exploring the other options at this point because what is currently happening isn't working on many fronts, but including in terms of mental health especially. Mary Carreon: So mm-hmm. We gotta get going. Right? We [00:26:00] gotta get moving. Geez. Joe Moore: Have you all, have you all seen much of the information around chronic pain treatments? Like I'm, I'm a founding board member with the Psychedelics and Pain Association, which has a really fun project. Oh, that's interesting. Mary Carreon: Um, I've seen some of the studies around that and it's endlessly fascinating for obvious, for obvious reasons. Mary Carreon: I, um, we have a writer who's been working for a long time on a story, uh, about the chronic pain that has since. Become an issue for this, for her, for the writer. Mm-hmm. Um, since she had COVID. Mm-hmm. Since, since she is just like, COVID was the onset basically of this chronic pain. And, um, there she attended a psychedelics in pain, chronic pain conference and, uh, that has pretty much like, changed her world. Mary Carreon: Um, well, in terms of just the information that's out there, not necessarily that she's painless, but it's just, you know, offering a, a brand new, a brand new road, a brand new path that is giving her, [00:27:00] um, relief on days when the pain is, uh, substantial. laughs: Yeah. Mary Carreon: So that's interesting. And a lot of people are experiencing that as well. Joe Moore: Mm-hmm. So there's, there's a really cool set of overlap between the COVID researchers, long COVID researchers and the chronic pain people. 'cause there is Yes. This new science of pain that's yes. Our group, PPA put out like a really robust kind of training, um, for clinicians and researchers and even patients to get more educated. Joe Moore: And we're, we're getting, um, kind of boostered by cluster busters and we're kind of leveraging a lot of what they've done. Mary Carreon: Wait, what is a cluster buster? Joe Moore: Oh gosh. Um, so they're a 5 0 1 C3. Okay. Started with Bob Wald. Okay. Bob Wald is a cluster headache survivor. Oh, oh, oh, Mary Carreon: okay. Got it. Got it. Yes. So they're Joe Moore: the charity that, um, has been really championing, um, cluster headache research because they found a protocol [00:28:00] with mushrooms. Joe Moore: Yes, yes, yes. To eliminate. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Um, this really great, I Mary Carreon: love that. Joe Moore: This really great book was written by a Rutgers, um, I think medical sociologist or anthropologist psychedelic. Love laughs: that. Joe Moore: Joanna Kempner. Cool. Um, and it kind of talks about the whole, um, cluster busters saga, and it was, it was pretty cool. Joe Moore: Nice. So they've been at it for about as long as maps. Um, oh wow. Maybe a little earlier. Maybe a little later. Mary Carreon: I love that. Cool. I mean, yeah, that's really great. That's really great. Joe Moore: So we're copying their playbook in a lot of ways and Cool. We about to be our own 5 0 1 C3 and, um, nice. And that should be really fun. Joe Moore: And, uh, the next conference is coming up at the end of next month if people wanna check that out. Psychedelic. Nice. Mary Carreon: Nice, nice, nice. Cool. Joe Moore: Yeah, so that, like, how I leaned into that was not only did I get a lot of help from chronic pain with psychedelics and going to Phish shows and whatever, um, you know, I, and overuse for sure helped me somehow. Joe Moore: [00:29:00] Um, God bless. Yeah. But I, I like it because it breaks us out of the psychiatry only frame for psychedelics. Mm. And starts to make space for other categories. Mm-hmm. Is one of the bigger reasons I like it. Mary Carreon: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yes. Yes. Which, like, we need to be, we need to, we, no one else is gonna do it for us. We like the people in the space who are finding new uses for these substances need to be creating those, those pathways and those new niches for people to then begin studying, et cetera, and exploring and yeah. Mary Carreon: Making, making a proper avenue for, Joe Moore: right, right. And, you know, um, I don't know that this is a Maha thing, so No, I'm going there, I guess, but like, how do we kind of face squarely America and the world's drinking problems? Not [00:30:00] knowing what we know now about alcohol, you know what I mean? And then like, what are the alternatives? Joe Moore: You know, some, some writers out there on substack are very firm that everybody needs to not do any substance. And like all psychedelics are super bad and drugs are evil, you know, famous sub stackers that I won't name. But you know, like what is the alternative? Like, I, like we have to have something beyond alcohol. Joe Moore: And I think you've found some cannabis helpful for that. Mary Carreon: Yeah, I, you know, it's, it's interesting because it's, there are, there's definitely an argument to be made for the power of these substances in helping, I don't wanna, I don't wanna say curb, but definitely reduce the symptoms of, uh, wanting to use or to drink or to consume a specific substance. Mary Carreon: There's obviously there is an argument to be made. There are, there is ano another camp of people who are kind [00:31:00] of in the, in the, in the, in the realm of using a drug to get off of a drug isn't how you do it. However, and, and I do, it depends on the individual. It depends on the individual and the, and how that person is engaging with their own addiction. Mary Carreon: I think for whether or not the substances work, like whether psychedelics work to help somebody kind of get off of alcohol or get off of cocaine or stop using opioids or, you know, et cetera. Mm-hmm. However, I think like, when the situation is so dire, we need to be trying everything. And if that means, like, if, like, you know, if you look at the studies for like smoking cessation or alcohol use, mushrooms do help, psilocybin does help with that. Mary Carreon: Mm-hmm. But, you know, there's, there's a lot of, there's a lot of things that also need to happen. There's a lot of things that also need to happen in order for those, uh, that relief to maintain and to stick and to, uh, really guide [00:32:00] somebody off of those substances. Mm-hmm. It's not just the substance itself. Joe Moore: Right. So I'm, I'm explicitly talking like recreational alternatives, right. Like how do I Yeah. On per minute, like, am Anitas becoming helpful? Yeah, yeah. Are helpful and Yeah. Yeah. I think like even, um, normal. What we might call like normal American alcohol use. Like Yeah. That's still like, quite carcinogenic and like, um, absolutely. Joe Moore: We're kind of trying to spend less as a country on cancer treatments, which I hope is true. Then how do we, how do we develop things that are, you know, not just abstinence only programs, which we know for sure aren't great. Mary Carreon: Yeah. They don't work. Yeah. I don't, it's, it's difficult. Mm-hmm. It's difficult to say. Mary Carreon: I mean mm-hmm. I don't know. Obviously I, I, well, maybe it's not obvious at all for people who don't know me, but, you know, I exist in a, I exist in, in a world where recreational use is like, it's like hard to define what recreational use is because if we are using this, if we are using mushrooms or LSD even, or MDMA, [00:33:00] you know, there are so many, there's a lot of the therapy that can happen through the use of these substances, even if we're not doing it, you know, with a blindfold on or whatever and yeah, I think like. Mary Carreon: There is a decent swap that can happen if you, if you are somebody who doesn't wanna be, you know, having like three beers a night, or if you are somebody who's like, you know, maybe not trying to have like a bottle of wine at a night or something like that, you know, because like Americans drink a lot and a lot of the way that we drink is, um, you know, like we don't see it as alcoholism. Mary Carreon: Even though it could be, it could be that's like a difficult Joe Moore: potentially subclinical, but right there. Mary Carreon: Um, yeah. Yeah. It's like, you know, it's, um, we don't see it as that because everybody, a lot of people, not everybody, but a lot of people drink like that, if that makes sense. If you know mm-hmm. If you, if you get what I'm, if you get what I'm saying. Mary Carreon: So, you know, I do think that there's a lot of benefit that, I don't [00:34:00] know, having, like a, having a mushroom, having a mushroom experience can really help. Or sometimes even like low dose, low doses of mushrooms can also really help with, like, with the. Desire to reach for a drink. Yeah, totally. And, and AMS as well. Mary Carreon: I know that that's also helping people a lot too. And again, outside of the clinical framework. Joe Moore: Yeah. I'm, a lot of people project on me that I'm just like constantly doing everything all the time and I'm, I'm the most sober I've been since high school. You know, like it's bonkers that like Yeah. Um, and you know, probably the healthiest event since high school too. Joe Moore: Yeah. But it's fa it's fascinating that like, you know, psychedelics kind of helped get here and even if it was like For sure something that didn't look like therapy. Yeah, Mary Carreon: yeah, yeah, yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. I, I think, I think most of us here in this space are getting projected on as to like, you know, being like what Normies would consider druggies or something, or that we are just like, you know, high all the time. Mary Carreon: Um, [00:35:00] I know that that is definitely something that I face regularly, like out in the world. Um, but, you know, I would also, I would also argue that. Uh, like mushrooms have completely altered my approach to health, my approach to mental health, and not even having to consume that, you know, that substance in order or that, you know, that fun fungi, in order for me to like tap into taking care of my mental health or approaching better, uh, food options, et cetera. Mary Carreon: It's kind of like what these, it's like how the mushrooms continue to help you even after you have taken them. Like the messages still keep coming through if you work with them in that capacity. Right. And yeah, and also same with, same with LSD too. LSD has also kind my experiences with that have also guided me towards a healthier path as well. Mary Carreon: I, I understand that maybe for some people it's not that way, but, um, for me that substance is a medicine as well, [00:36:00] or it can be. Joe Moore: Yeah. Um, so. What are, what are some things popping up these days about like US drug policy that's like getting exciting for you? Like, are you feeling feeling like a looming optimism about a, a major shift? Joe Moore: Are you kind of like cautiously optimistic with some of the weird kind of mandatory minimum stuff that's coming up or? Mary Carreon: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I know that there was a huge, a, a pretty huge shift over at the DEA and I wish I remembered, I wish I remembered his name. The new guy who's now, I believe the head of the DEA, I don't know enough information about it to really feel a way. Mary Carreon: However, I don't think that he's necessarily going to be serving us as a community here, uh, in the psychedelic space. I, you know, I just don't think that that's something that we can ever depend on with the DEA. Uh, I also don't think that [00:37:00] the DEA is necessarily going to be. All that helpful to cannabis, like the cannabis space either. Mary Carreon: Um, I know that, that Trump keeps kind of discussing or, or dangling a carrot around the rescheduling of cannabis. Um, for, he's been, he's been, but he's doing it a lot more now. He's been talking about it more recently. Uh, he says like, in the next like couple weeks that he's going to have some kind of decision around that, allegedly. Mary Carreon: But we will see also, I'm not sure that it's going to necessarily help anybody if we reschedule two. Uh, what from schedule one to schedule th two, three, schedule three. Joe Moore: Either way it's like not that useful. Right. Exactly. Mary Carreon: Yeah. Yeah, exactly. It's, um, just going to probably cause a lot more red tape and a lot of confusion for the state rec markets. Mary Carreon: So it's like something that we, it's like only ridden with unintentional, unintentional consequences. Unintended consequences. Mm-hmm. Because no one knows how it's really going to [00:38:00] impact anything, um, if, if at all. But I don't know. It's hard, it's hard to imagine that there won't be any, uh, like more complex regulatory issues for business owners and also probably consumers as well. Joe Moore: Hmm. Yeah. This guy's name's Terry Cole. Mary Carreon: Oh, the new DEA guy. Joe Moore: Yeah. Um, I don't know much about him. Terry. Yeah. Terry, I would love to chat. Mary Carreon: Yeah. Terry, let's talk. I'm sure your people Joe Moore: are watching. Yeah. So like, just let him know. We wanna chat. Yeah. We'll come to DC and chat it out. Um, yeah. It's, um, but yeah, I, Carl Hart's solution to me makes like almost most of the sense in the world to just end the scheduling system Absolutely. Joe Moore: And start building some sort of infrastructure to keep people safe. That's clearly not what we have today. Mary Carreon: No. But building an infrastructure around the health and wellness and uh, safety of [00:39:00] people is the exact opposite system that we have currently right now. Because also the scheduling system has a lot to do with the incarceration in the United States and the criminal just, or the criminal system. Mary Carreon: So, so yeah, like we can't disentangle the two really. Joe Moore: It just started, um, I feel negligent on this. Uh, synergetic press put out a book like a year or two ago called Body Autonomy. Mm-hmm. Um, did that one come across your desk at all? Mm-hmm. No. I wish basically contributed. Oh, nice. A number of people. So it's both like, um. Joe Moore: Drug policy commentary and then like sex work commentary. Oh, nice. And it was like high level, like love that really, really incredible love that detailed science based conversations, which is not what we have around this. Like, that doesn't make me feel good. So you should go to jail kind of stuff. Or like, I'm gonna humiliate you for real though. Joe Moore: Ticket. Yeah, Mary Carreon: yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh God. Uh, when you think about it like that, it just really also shows [00:40:00] just the uh, um, the level at which religion has also kind of fundamentally infused itself into the scheduling system, but also our laws, you know, like what you just said, this like, shame-based, I'm going to embarrass you and make you into a criminal when you know actually you are a law for the most part, a law abiding citizen, with the exception of this one thing that you're doing for. Mary Carreon: A, your survival and or your, like, your feeling good, wanting to feel good addressing pain. Um, there's a large, uh, like noise coming out of the front yard of my house right now. Hold on. Just a, it doesn't sound too bad. It doesn't sound too bad. Okay. Okay, good. Not at all. Not at all. Okay. Yeah, I had Joe Moore: people working on my roof all day and somehow it worked out. Joe Moore: Oh, good. Um, yeah. Um, yeah, it's, it's fascinating and I, I've been coming around like, I, I identify as politically confused, [00:41:00] um, and I feel like it's the most honest way I can be. Um, Mary Carreon: I am also politically confused these days, impossible to align with any, uh, party or group currently in existence at this exact juncture in American history. Joe Moore: I can't find any that I want to throw my dice in with. Nah. This idea of like fucking way being. Like what is the most humane way to do government as a way it's been put to me recently. And that's interesting. So it comes down to like coercion, are we caring for people, things like that. And um, I don't think we're doing it in a super humane way right now. Mary Carreon: Um, we, yeah, I am pretty sure that even if there was, I mean, I think that even if we looked at the data, the data would support that we are not doing it in a humane way. Joe Moore: So Mary Carreon: unfortunately, and Joe Moore: you know, this whole tech thing, like the tech oligarch thing, you kind of dropped at the beginning and I think it's worth bringing that back because we're, we're on all [00:42:00] these tech platforms. Joe Moore: Like that's kind of like how we're transmitting it to people who are participating in these other platforms and like, you know, it's not all meta. I did turn on my personal Facebook, so everybody's watching it there. I hope. Um, see if that count gets, Mary Carreon: um, Joe Moore: but you know, this idea that a certain number of private corporations kind of control. Joe Moore: A huge portion of rhetoric. Um, and you know, I think we probably got Whiffs of this when Bezos bought Washington Post and then Yes. You know, Musk with X and like yes. You know, is this kind of a bunch of people who don't necessarily care about this topic and the way we do, and they're like in larger topics too about humane government and like, you know, moving things in good directions. Joe Moore: Um, I don't know, thoughts on that rift there as it relates to anything you, wherever you wanna go. Yeah. Mary Carreon: Yeah. I mean, I don't think that they are looking at, I don't think that they are looking [00:43:00] at it the way that we are. I don't think that they can see it from their vantage point. Um, I think that like, in the, in a similar way that so many CEOs who run businesses have no fucking clue about what's actually happening in their businesses and the actual workers and, and employees of their businesses can tell them in more detail. Mary Carreon: Far more detail about what's actually happening on the, on the floor of their own business. Uh, I think that it is something like that. However, that's not to say that, you know, these, these CEOs who employ people who build the A algorithm are obviously guided to create the limitations on us as people who speak about drugs, et cetera, and are creating a algorithm that ultimately is looking at things in a very blanket way in terms of, uh, like we're probably seen on the same level as like drug dealers, if that makes sense. Mary Carreon: Which is obviously a much, you know, there's, [00:44:00] it's a very different thing. Um, so, you know, there's like these CEOs are giving directions to their employees to ultimately create systems that harm. Information flow and inform and, and like the information health of, of platforms and of just people in general. Mary Carreon: So it's hard to say because there's nuance there, obviously, but I would bet you that someone like Elon Musk doesn't really have a full grasp as to the, the nuances and details of what's even happening within, on the ground floor of his businesses. Because that's like, not how CEOs in America run, run, and operate. Mary Carreon: They're stupid companies. So, so yeah. And I feel like that, like, that's across the board, like that's across the board. That's how I, that's probably how Zuck is operating with Meta and Facebook, et cetera. And yeah, just likewise and across, across the whole, [00:45:00] across the whole spectrum. Joe Moore: Mm-hmm. Yeah. And I think, um, a thing. Joe Moore: Then as the people like, we need to keep looking at how can we keep each other informed. And that's kind of circling back to drug journalism like we do and like, um, other, other sorts of journalism that doesn't really get the press it deserves. Right. And I've been getting far more content that I find more valuable off of tragically back on Zucks platform like IG is getting me so much interesting content from around the world that no major outlet's covering. Mary Carreon: That's so interesting. Like what? Like what would you say? Joe Moore: Oh, um, uh, certain, um, violent situations overseas. Oh, oh, got it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And, um, you know, that America's paying for, so like, you know, I just don't love that I don't have a good, you know, journalistic source I can [00:46:00] point to, to say, hey, like right. Joe Moore: These writers with names, with addresses, like, and offices here. Yes. You know, they did the work and they're held, you know, they're ethical journalists, so yes. You can trust them. Right. You know what I mean? Yes, Mary Carreon: yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, all of this makes everything so much harder for determining, like, the censorship specifically makes it so much harder for the people to determine like, what's real, what's not. Mary Carreon: Because, because of exactly what you just said. Mm-hmm. Like, you know, we are, we are basically what that means, like what is required of the people and people who are consuming information is becoming a smart consumer and being able to determine what's real, what's not. How can we trust this individual? Mary Carreon: How can we not, which isn't analysis process that all of us need to be sharpening every single day, especially with the advent of AI and, uh, how quickly this, this type of content is coming at all of us. Like, especially if you're on TikTok, which many of us are, you know, like information comes flying at you 3000 miles an hour, and it's sometimes [00:47:00] really difficult to determine what's real, what's not, because AI is. Mary Carreon: AI is not where it's going to be, and it still is in its nascent phase. However, it's still pretty fucking good and it's still very confusing on there. So, so again, like the media literacy of the people needs to be sharpened every single day. We cannot be on there, we cannot be on the internet existing. Mary Carreon: That everything that we are seeing is real. Whether that's about, you know, these, um, the violence overseas, uh, happening at the hands of the United States, whether that is, uh, even drug information like, you know, et cetera, all of all of it. Or just like news about something happening at Yellowstone National Park or something that is happening in the, uh, at like. Mary Carreon: Um, like potential riots also happening at protests in downtown la, et cetera. Like all, all of it, we need to be so careful. And I think what that also, like, one way that [00:48:00] we can adjust and begin to develop our media literacy skills is talking to people maybe who are there, reaching out to people who are saying that they were there and asking them questions, and also sussing that out. Mary Carreon: You know, obviously we can't do that for all situations, but definitely some of them. Joe Moore: Yeah, absolutely. Like, Joe Moore: um, a quick pivot. Mm-hmm. Were you at PS 25? Mary Carreon: Yes, I was. What did I think? Uh, you know, I, I was running around like crazy at this one. I felt like I didn't even have a second to breathe and I feel like I didn't even have a second to really see anybody. I was like, worry. I was jumping from one stage to the next. Mary Carreon: However, I would say, uh, one of, one of the things that I have said and how I felt about it was that I felt that this, this event was smaller than it was two years ago. And I preferred that I preferred the reduction in size just because it was, uh, less over, less overwhelming [00:49:00] in an, in an already very overwhelming event. Mary Carreon: Um, but I thought that from the panels that I did see that everyone did a really great job. I thought that maps, you know, it's impressive that maps can put on an event like that. Um, I also was very cognizant that the suits were there in full effect and, uh, you know, but that's not unusual. That's how it was last time as well. Mary Carreon: And, um, I felt that there was Mary Carreon: a, uh, like the, the, the level of excitement and the level of like opportunity and pro, like the prosperous. The like, prospect of prosperity coming down the pipeline like tomorrow, you know, kind of vibe was different than last time. Mm-hmm. Which that was very present at the one, two years ago, uh, which was the last PS psychedelic science. Mary Carreon: Yeah. Um, anyways. Yeah. But it was, you know, it was really nice to see everybody. [00:50:00] I feel like in-person events is a great way for everybody in the psychedelic space to be interacting with each other instead of like keyboard warrioring against each other, you know, uh, over the computer and over the internet. Mary Carreon: I think that, um, yeah, uh, being in person is better than being fighting each other over the internet, so, yeah. Joe Moore: Mm-hmm. People seem to be a little bit more civil in person. Mary Carreon: Exactly. Exactly. Mm-hmm. And I think that that is something that we all need to be considering more often, and also inviting people from across the aisle to your events and creating peace, because in person it's a little different than it is. Mary Carreon: When you have the opportunity to, uh, yeah, like keyboard attack someone over the internet, it's like, yeah. It's just so silly. So silly. We look like fools. Like we look like absolute idiots doing that. And you know what? I cannot sit here and say that I haven't looked like an idiot. So, you know, it's like I'm not, I'm not talking from like a high horse over here, but, but you know, it's like, it's [00:51:00] better when it's in person. Mary Carreon: I feel like there's like more civil engagements that we can all have. Joe Moore: It's practice, you know? Yeah. We're learning. Yeah. We are. We should be learning, including us, and yes, of course. Um, I, I play a subtler game these days and, uh, you know, I, I, I, it's better when we all look a lot better in my opinion, because yes, we can inform policy decisions, we can be the ones helping inform really important things about how these things should get implemented and absolutely right. Joe Moore: Like, Mary Carreon: absolutely. Yeah, it does. It does. Nobody, any service, especially these medicines, especially these sacraments, especially these plants, these molecules, et cetera, if we are all sitting here fighting each other and like calling each other names and trying to dunk on one another, when like in reality, we are also all kind of pushing for the same thing more or less. Joe Moore: Mm-hmm. So a thing that [00:52:00] I, it's a, it's kind of a, I, I had a great time at PS 25. I have no, no real complaints. I just wish I had more time. Yeah, same. Um, same. Yeah. Our booth was so busy. It was so fun. Just good. And it was like, good. I, I know. It was really good. I'm trying to say it out loud. I get to talk at the conference before Rick did. laughs: Oh, oh, Joe Moore: the morning show they put us on at like seven 30 in the morning or something crazy. Oh my god. It was early. I dunno if it was seven 30. Mary Carreon: That's so early. That's so early. Joe Moore: Yeah, right. Like that's crazy. I got zero nightlife in That's okay. Um, I was not, I was there for work. Yeah, Mary Carreon: yeah. I was Joe Moore: jealous. I didn't party, but you know, whatever. Joe Moore: Yeah, yeah. Mary Carreon: I did not party this time really in the same way that I did at PS 20. Was it 2023? Joe Moore: 23, yeah. 23. I only stay up till 11 one night in 23. Nice. Mary Carreon: Okay. Um, okay. Joe Moore: So I behaved, I have a pattern of behaving. 'cause I like That's good. I'm so bent outta shape inside going into these things. I'm like, I know, I know. Joe Moore: And, and I'm like, oh, all [00:53:00] my friends are gonna be there. It's gonna be great. And then it's like, yeah. It's mostly friends and only a little bit of stress. Yeah. Um, yeah. Yeah, Mary Carreon: yeah. I had a, I had a great time. It was really good seeing everybody again. Like you, I wish that I had more time with people. Like there are people that I like didn't even see who are my friends, Joe Moore: so, which Yeah. Joe Moore: Which is sad. That's like a subtext in, in like the notes coming away from 25. Is that the, um, American Right, if we wanna call it that, is very interested in this stuff. Oh yeah. Like the Texas establishment. Oh yeah. Um, the Texas contingent, right? They're deep. They're real deep. Mm-hmm. I have, um, Mary Carreon: let's talk about that more. Mary Carreon: Yeah. So Joe Moore: it's optimistic in, in some sense that psychedelic science is getting funded more. By states. 'cause the feds aren't stepping up. Right. I love that. Right. Yeah. Like, Hey feds, look what we can do. And you can't somehow, and [00:54:00] then, um, we'll see if state rights stays around for a while longer, maybe, maybe not. Joe Moore: And then the other part is like, is there a slippery slope given the rhetoric around addiction and the rise in interest in iboga for compulsory addiction treatment with psychedelics or, or compulsory mental health treatments with psychedelics because of the recent, it's illegal to be a person without housing. Joe Moore: Um, and you're gonna get put in treatment. Mm. Like, that's now a thing. So like, I don't know, I don't think forced treatment's good at all. I, and I don't think like, um, like the data is something like 15% effective, maybe less. Right. Right. It's not a good use of money. I don't know. We're, let's, I. You can go there if you want, and riff on that, or if you wanna talk about like, Texas, um, Arizona more generally. Mary Carreon: Yeah. I mean, I will just say this, I also don't really believe that forced treatment is like good, you [00:55:00] know, data Joe Moore: says it's bad. Mary Carreon: Yeah. Yeah. I also, yeah, I mean, it's like, I don't know. Yeah, that's, it's complex. It's a complex issue. I also don't think it's good, but I also do think that we need a much better framework and foundation for like, if people do want the help, helping them get it. Mary Carreon: Much more easily and in a way that's going to be beneficial for them. Um, and I don't think that that system or that pathway currently exists as we saw in, uh, with, with, um, measure 1 0 9 and the failure of measure 1 0 9 or, or was it Measure 1 0 10, 1 10, measure one 10 in Oregon. Joe Moore: But did you see the response yesterday or two days ago? Joe Moore: No, I didn't. No, I didn't. I'll I'll send it to you later. Okay. So the university did the research, um, Portland State University did the research Yes. And said, Hey, look, there was actually 20 other things that were higher priority. Like that actually influenced this increase in overdoses, not our law. Mary Carreon: Right. Mary Carreon: Yes. It was really COVID for Okay. [00:56:00] Like for, yeah. Right. Absolutely. Also, there was not a. Like there was not a framework in place that allowed people to get off the street should they want to, or you know, like, like you just can't really have a, all drugs are legal, or small amounts of drugs are legal without also offering or creating a structure for people to get help. Mary Carreon: That, that's, you can't do one without the other. Unfortunately. That's just like a, that's faulty from the start. So that's all I'll really say about that. And I don't think that that had fully been implemented yet, even though it was something that wasn't ideal for the, um, for the, for the measure. And I believe it was measure one 10, not measure 1 0 9, to be clear. Mary Carreon: Measure one 10. Um, yes, but confirmed one 10 confirmed one 10, yes. Mm-hmm. Um, but yeah, uh, that's, you know, that's kind of what I'll say. That's what I'll, that's where I'll leave that portion. Mm-hmm. You know? Uh, but yeah, forced treatment. I don't know. [00:57:00] We can't be forcing, forcing people to do stuff like that. Mary Carreon: I don't know. It's not gonna, it's, yeah, it doesn't seem Joe Moore: very humane. Mary Carreon: Yeah. No. And it also probably isn't gonna work, so, Joe Moore: right. Like, if we're being conservative with money, like, I like tote, like to put on Republican boots once in a while and say like, what does this feel like? And then say like, okay, if we're trying to spend money smartly, like where do we actually get where we want to be? Joe Moore: And then sometimes I put on my cross and I'm like, okay, if I'm trying to be Christian, like where is the most, like, what is the most Christian behavior here in terms of like, what would the, you know, buddy Jesus want to do? And I'm just like, okay, cool. Like, that doesn't seem right. Like those things don't seem to align. Joe Moore: And when we can find like compassionate and efficient things, like isn't that the path? Um, Mary Carreon: compassionate and t. Yeah, even, I don't know, I don't know if it looks lefty these days, but Yeah, I know what you mean. Yeah, I know what you mean. I know what you mean. Yeah. [00:58:00] Yeah. Um, yeah, it's complicated. It's complicated, you know, but going back, kind of, kind of pivoting and going back to what you were talking about in regards to the subtext, some of the subtext of like, you know, where psychedelic medicine is currently getting its most funding. Mary Carreon: You know, I do believe that that was an undercurrent at psychedelic science. It was the, the iboga conversation. And there's, there's a lot, there's a lot happening with the Iboga conversation and the Iboga conversation and, um, I am really trying to be open to listening to everyone's messages that are currently involved in. Mary Carreon: That rise of that medicine right now? Um, obviously, yeah, we will see, we'll see how it goes. There's obviously a lot of people who believe that this is not the right move, uh, just because there's been no discussions with, uh, the Wii people of West Africa and, you know, because of [00:59:00] that, like we are not talking to the indigenous people about how we are using their medicine, um, or medicine that does like that comes from, that comes from Africa. Mary Carreon: Um, also with that, I know that there is a massive just devastating opioid crisis here that we need to do something about and drug crisis that we need to be helping with. And this medicine is something that can really, really, really help. Um, I find it absolutely fascinating that the right is the most interested party in moving all of this forward, like psychedelic medicine forward. Mary Carreon: And I, I currently have my popcorn and I am watching and I am eating it, and I am going to witness whatever goes down. Um, but I'm, I, I hope that, uh, things are moving in a way that is going to be beneficial for the people and also not completely leave behind the indigenous communities where this medicine comes from. Joe Moore: [01:00:00] Mm-hmm. Mary Carreon: We'll see how it goes. Yeah. We'll see how it goes. We'll see how it goes. It Joe Moore: would be lovely if we can figure it out. Um, I know, and I think, uh, Lucy Walker has a film coming out on Iboga. Mm. I got to see it at Aspen, um, symposium last summer, and it was really good. Mm. So I'm sure it'll be cut different, but it's so good and it tells that story. Joe Moore: Okay. Um, in a helpful way. I'm gonna, I, yeah. I always say I'm gonna do this. I'm like, if I have space, maybe I'll be able to email her and see if we can screen it in Colorado. But it's like a brilliant film. Yeah. Cool. This whole reciprocity conversation is interesting and challenging. And so challenging being one of the few countries that did not sign onto the Nagoya protocol. Joe Moore: Absolutely. We're not legally bound, you know, some countries are Mary Carreon: I know. Yes, yes, yes. So Joe Moore: we're, you know, how do we do that? How do we do that skillfully? We still haven't done it with, um, first Nations folks around their [01:01:00] substances. Um, I think mushrooms are a little flexible and account of them being global, um, from Africa to Ireland and beyond. Joe Moore: And, but you know, that's, we still want to give a nod to the people in Mexico for sure. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. Um, yeah. Yeah, it's, I had some fun commentary there that I would love to flesh out someday. Uh, but yeah, it's not for today. Mary Carreon: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, there's, yeah, there's obviously, there's obviously a lot with the conversation of reciprocity here and, um, I know, I, I don't know. Mary Carreon: I, I, what I do know is that we need to be listening to the indigenous people, not just listening to them second, like secondhand or listening to them, uh, once we have moved something forward, like actually consulting with them as the process goes. And that, you know, the way that both parties move, indigenous folks and, uh, western folks move, uh, are at inherently different paces. Mary Carreon: And, [01:02:00] um, I just hope, and I wish, and I, I hope, I just hope that, uh, Western what, like the Western party, the western folks who are diving into these medicines. Slow the fuck down and listen and just are able to at least make one right move. Just one, just like you. Like it's, doesn't have to be this, it doesn't have to be that hard. Mary Carreon: Although the pace of capitalism usually propels, uh, the western folks at, at a much quicker rate than, u

What is it like to spend a week in the deep jungle of Westen Africa, with nothing but a dirt floor, lots of Iboga, a skirt, and no necessities like water or a bed to rest in? In this intimate conversation, I welcome back my Iboga provider, and twice-initiated Bwiti practitioner Paije Alexandra West. With intention and care, Paije shares about her recent initiation into the Fang branch of the Bwiti tradition in Gabon. This is ultimately a conversation about what it means to walk the path of service with Iboga.Paije shares carefully about her journey from working in ibogaine clinics to becoming a ceremonial iboga provider, and how initiation has shaped her life, her family, and her work with her retreat center, ⁠ETÈREO⁠ in Baja. She opens up about the realities of being a provider—the intensity, responsibility, and beauty of holding this medicine—and offers fresh insight into the role of women's voices in the iboga space.Show Links:⁠Paije's Instagram⁠⁠ETÈREO's Instagram⁠ETÈREO's website⁠Explore Coaching with Lana:Iboga Integration & Prep Coaching⁠⁠⁠ (NEW-now enrolling)Psychedelically Informed Life Coaching⁠⁠⁠ (6 Month Program)Stay Connected to Modern Psychedelics:Instagram: ⁠⁠⁠@modernpsychedelics⁠⁠⁠YouTube: ⁠⁠⁠Modern Psychedelics YouTube⁠⁠⁠Website: ⁠⁠⁠www.modernpsychedelics.net⁠⁠⁠Substack: The Healthy Ego⁠⁠Free Resources:FREE Iboga Preparation Guide⁠FREE Set Better Goals⁠FREE Integration Journal ⁠FREE Intention Setting Journal⁠FREE Psychedelic Ceremony Checklist⁠FREE Playlists for Psychedelic Journeys + Integration⁠DISCLAIMER: Modern Psychedelics does not endorse or support the illegal consumption of any substances. This show is meant for entertainment purposes only. Modern Psychedelics does not sell or promote the sale of any illegal substances. The thoughts, views, and opinions on this show should not be taken as life advice, medicinal advice, or therapeutic guidance.

In this episode of The Psychedelic Podcast, Paul F. Austin welcomes Lana Pribic, ICF Professional Coach, co-founder of Kanna Wellness, and host of the Modern Psychedelics Podcast. Lana shares her deep reverence for African medicines—iboga and kanna—and why she resists quick-fix narratives in psychedelic culture. Find full show notes and links here: https://thethirdwave.co/podcast/episode-321/?ref=278  She opens up about her ceremonies in Baja, the long arc of iboga integration, and the role of preparation, intention, and patience in this work. The conversation also explores kanna as a gentle daily ally and the cultural roots of both medicines. Lana Pribic, M.Sc., is an ICF Professional Coach, co-founder of Kanna Wellness, and producer & host of the Modern Psychedelics Podcast. With over 230 hours of professional training and four coaching certifications, Lana specializes in psychedelically-informed coaching, guiding individuals through profound inner transformation. Based in Ontario, she merges the power of psychedelics, consciousness, and self-discovery to facilitate deeply impactful experiences. When she's not immersed in her work, you'll likely find her dancing to electronic beats, creating art in the kitchen, practicing patience with her cat, curating her dream wardrobe, or diving into a book. Highlights: How iboga differs from classic psychedelics Preparation as the overlooked key to safe journeys How to craft meaningful questions for iboga Rejecting the quick-fix narrative in psychedelic work Facing shadow material in ceremony The long arc of iboga integration Kanna as a subtle, supportive ally Safety concerns around microdosing iboga The cultural inseparability of iboga and Bwiti Balancing medicalization with ancestral reverence Episode Links: Modern Psychedelics Podcast  Kanna Wellness – Use code THIRDWAVE for 10% off Episode Sponsors: Psychedelic Coacing Institute's Intensive for Psychedelic Professionals in Costa Rica - a transformative retreat for personal and professional growth. Golden Rule Mushrooms - Get a lifetime discount of 10% with code THIRDWAVE at checkout

DisclaimerThe views and experiences shared in this episode are those of the guest and do not necessarily reflect those of the host or this podcast. This conversation includes discussion of Iboga/psychedelics in the context of addiction. This podcast does not endorse or encourage the use of psychedelics or any illegal substances as a treatment approach. If you are struggling with alcohol or substance use, please seek support from a qualified healthcare provider or addiction professional.In this episode, Danni Carr interviews Colin Laird, a compassionate yoga teacher and poet, who shares his journey of self-discovery, healing, and transformation. Colin discusses his challenging childhood in Scotland, his struggles with alcohol, and the profound impact of yoga and poetry on his life. He reflects on the role of love, trauma, and the importance of self-care in overcoming addiction. Colin also shares his experiences with psychedelics and how they contributed to his healing process. The conversation culminates in a touching moment where Colin reconnects with his estranged father before his passing. This was a truly heart opening chat about forgiveness and love.Key PointsColin's journey began with a fractured childhood in Scotland.Alcohol was a means of coping with deep-seated trauma.Yoga and poetry became essential tools for healing.The heart is a portal to deeper understanding and love.Transformation often comes from facing our darkest moments.Psychedelic experiences can facilitate profound healing.Self-inquiry and responsibility are key to personal growth.Love is the foundation of true fulfillment and connection.Recognising and nurturing our inner child is crucial.The journey of healing is ongoing and multi-dimensional.To find out about Colin's event Tickets are here To order a copy of Colin's book email him at colin.p.laird@gmail.comTo reach out to him on FB go to https://www.facebook.com/colin.p.lairdFor more resources such as coaching or to join the next HIQA challenge or retreat go towww.iquitalcohol.com.auFollow HIQA insta @howiquitalcohol Music for Podcast intro and outro written by Danni Carr performed by Mr CassidyIf you are struggling with physical dependancy on alcohol consider contacting a local AA meeting or a drug and alcohol therapist. Always consult a GP before stopping alcohol. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Psy-Nation Radio Episode #092 The 92nd edition of the Psy-Nation Radio podcast hosted by Ace Ventura & Liquid Soul (Liquid Ace) is here! For this episode we have for you a guest mix by Rugrats ! We always love to hear your thoughts - feel free to send suggestions, feedback and requests to: psynationradio@gmail.com #wearepsynation Track list: 1. Protonica & Zen Mechanics - Flowstate (Iboga records) 2. Emok & Silent Sphere - Circus Sideshow (Iboga records) 3. Photonics - Citrine (Sourcecode transmissions) 4. Agmon - Watching Us (Sacred technology) 5. Infected Mushroom - Spaniard (Out of Orbit & Ido Segal remix) (Shamanic tales records) 6. Volcano & Oforia - Release Yourself (Sacred technology) 7. Acid Punks & Fungus funk - Fungus Punk (Mutant disco records) 8. Enrico Sangiuliano - The Techno Code (Avalon & Tristan Remix) (NINETOZERO) 9. Electric Universe - Bansuri (BLiSS remix) (Iboga records) 10. 8ternal Beings (Tristan & Regan Nano) - Maxwells Demon (Nano records) Rugrats Track list: 1. Tripadvisor & Rugrats - FandyKlipp 2. Rugrats - NN - (unreleased) 3. Rugrats - Super Baked (Render Remix) 4. Rugrats & Zeridium - Radio Zero One Sick 5. Rugrats & Art Materials - NN (Unreleased) 6. Braingineers & Rugrats & Xipe Totecs - That Fateful Night 7. Rugrats & Xed - Favorite Weed (unreleased) 8. Jumpstreet - BufferBoogie (Rugrats Remix) 9. Rugrats - Subway`s (unreleased) 10. Rugrats & Act One - NN (unreleased) 11. Rugrats & Jimi Green - Popular Mechanics This show is syndicated & distributed exclusively by Syndicast. If you are a radio station interested in airing the show or would like to distribute your podcast / radio show please register here: https://syndicast.co.uk/distribution/registration

This week we have returning guest, Troy Valencia, on the show to share about his recent book: “Living Beyond the Mind: The End of Personal Suffering”. Troy does a lot of things- he's an author, a dad, cofounder of Iboga retreat center, Root and Wisdom, and nonprofit, Sacred Roots Foundation, he's a spiritual teacher, mentor, and coach, and he's at the tail end of his doctoral program in clinical psychology. Through Troy's life experiences and studies, he realized that not only was suffering optional, but it was a product of the mind. In this book, he blends modern psychology, Indigenous wisdom, Eastern philosophy, and direct spiritual insight to help his reader break free from suffering at its root. In a lot of ways, this interview is a continuation of Troy's first interview on the show, #59 Whispers of Liberation from Suffering, so if you want more on this topic, click here.Highlights from this Episode: - An initiation experience in Africa with the Bwiti tradition that sparked the beginning of Living Beyond the Mind- The ways in which modern psychology often falls short when it comes to helping people integrate spiritual experiences- brushing them off as depression or psychosis or other diagnoses- An exploration of practices and principles such as “mind transcendence” and “the Middle Way”- Troy's perspective on parenting rooted in spiritual awareness "Living Beyond the Mind: The End of Personal Suffering" on Amazon If you'd like to work with Troy, you can find his information at ⁠www. rootandwisdom.com⁠  ⁠You can also learn more about his non-profit at ⁠www.sacredrootsfoundation.comIf you'd like to connect with Troy on Instagram, you can find him ⁠@troyvalencia_ ⁠If you'd like to connect with me, you can find me here:Instagram-@schoolofwhispers @__steef___ email-schoolofwhispers@gmail.com If you would like to schedule an acupuncture appointment with me, my current home office is called Balance Point Acupuncture. Visit ⁠www.balancepointacu.com⁠ or call 561-615-4535 to schedule your appointment today.

In this episode, I sit down with the extraordinary Tricia Eastman, a traditional Mestiza medicine practitioner, Bwiti initiate, and author of Seeding Consciousness. With over a decade of experience working with plant medicines like ibogaine and 5-MeO-DMT, Tricia brings rare insight into the intersection of ancestral wisdom and modern psychedelic healing.We dive deep into the significance of indigenous-led biocultural preservation, how plant medicine can reconnect us with our spiritual roots, and what it really means to walk a path of initiation. Tricia shares her powerful story of healing from an eating disorder, and how her own encounters with sacred medicines led her to a life of global service—from facilitating retreats with special operations veterans to founding the nonprofit Ancestral Heart.Whether you're curious about iboga, exploring sacred sexuality, or seeking deeper purpose, Tricia brings the kind of grounded wisdom and integrity this space desperately needs.DISCLAIMER: This podcast is for educational purposes only and not intended for diagnosing or treating illnesses. The hosts disclaim responsibility for any adverse effects from using the information presented. Consult your healthcare provider before using referenced products. This podcast may include paid endorsements.THIS SHOW IS BROUGHT TO YOU BY:BEAM MINERALS | Use code LUKE for 20% off your order at lukestorey.com/beam.KORRECT | Go to korrectlife.com/luke and use the code LUKE to get 15% off.SUNLIGHTEN | Save up to $600 when you go to lukestorey.com/sunlighten and use code LUKESTOREY in the pricing form.MAGNESIUM BREAKTHROUGH | Use code LUKE10 for 10% off at bioptimizers.com/luke.MORE ABOUT THIS EPISODE:(00:00:00) Light in the Lion's Den: Davos, Power, and Somatic Healing(00:23:16) Iboga: The Plant Teacher of Courage, Clarity, & Ancestral Healing(01:10:02) The Sacred Rituals & Mystical Power of Iboga Initiation(01:36:41) Masculine & Feminine Energy, Psychedelics, and the Genius of Balance(02:09:31) Iboga's Breakthrough Role in Addiction Recovery(02:38:34) Inside the Mystical Wisdom of the Kogi Elders(02:51:10) A Future Healing Sanctuary Born from Sacred VisionResources:• Website: psychedelicjourneys.com • Website: ancestralheart.com • Instagram: instagram.com/psychedelicjourneys • Facebook: facebook.com/triciaeastmanofficial • X: x.com/TriciaEast36721 • Shop all our merch designs at lukestoreymerch.com• Check out Gilded By Luke Storey:

In this episode of The Psychedelic Podcast, Paul F. Austin welcomes Dr. Dan Engle—psychiatrist, neurologist, and integrative medicine pioneer—for a profound discussion on psychedelics, brain health, and healing. Find full show notes and links here: https://thethirdwave.co/podcast/episode-313/?ref=278 Dr. Dan shares his personal journey through traumatic brain injuries and recovery through both Western neurology and indigenous plant medicine traditions. They explore neuroplasticity vs. neurogenesis, ibogaine's potential in brain injury recovery, and how belief, awe, and prayer shape healing outcomes. Dr. Dan also reflects on lessons psychiatry can learn from shamanic practice—highlighting the importance of service, community, and ceremony in catalyzing transformation. Dr. Dan Engle is a psychiatrist whose work bridges regenerative medicine, psychedelic research, integrative spirituality, and peak performance. He is founder of Full Spectrum Medicine, a psychedelic integration platform, and Thank You Life, a nonprofit expanding access to psychedelic therapies. He is author of The Concussion Repair Manual and A Dose of Hope: A Story of MDMA-Assisted Psychotherapy. Episode Highlights:  Healing from traumatic brain injury Iboga vs. Ibogaine: Benefits and risks Neuroplasticity vs. neurogenesis explained The science of awe and belief in healing Shamanic lessons for modern psychiatry Critical learning periods after psychedelic sessions Psychedelics as clarogens and renewing agents The placebo effect and collective service Texas legislation and Ibogaine research Episode Sponsors: Golden Rule Mushrooms - Get a lifetime discount of 10% with code THIRDWAVE at checkout

Emok DJ set at Ozora Festival 2024 Track list: 00:00 - Astrix & Rising Dust - Universo (Captain Hook Remix) 09:15 - Captain Hook - Let There Be Light (Libra Remix) 16:27 - Morten Granau - Spacelab 20:10 - Captain Hook - Desert Adventures (Modus Remix) 25:49 - Ritmo - The Soul (Sphera Remix) 30:37 - Emok & Morten Granau - 3rd Eye (Ritmo Remix) 35:47 - Samra - Dance To The Rhythm 40:39 - Captain Hook & Lish - Frankie's Wish (Outsiders Remix) 46:04 - Liquid Soul, Emok & Martin Vse - Elsewhere 49:40 - Blazy Album Emok Ozora Mashup Mix 58:19 - Ritmo & Asgard - Dunes 1:04:10 - Ace Ventura & Zen Mechanics - Come With Us (Asgard Remix) 1:10:55 - Ticon - Models On Cocaine (Animato & Volcano On Mars Remix) 1:17:49 - Liquid Soul - Salvation 1:31:30 - Aura Vortex & Blazy - Horizons (Phaxe Remix) Ozora Video by: UP Audiovisuals - / upaudiovisual Iboga - interviews & special videos: http://bit.ly/1NB41oZ Iboga - Live Acts: http://bit.ly/1L4xLUs More Iboga: http://www.iboga.dk/ / ibogarecords / ibogarecords http://www.beatport.com/label/iboga-r... / ibogarecords

Psy-Nation Radio Episode #091 The 91st edition of the Psy-Nation Radio podcast hosted by Ace Ventura & Liquid Soul (Liquid Ace) is here! For this episode we have for you a guest mix by E-Clip ! Prepare to shift your perspective. We always love to hear your thoughts - feel free to send suggestions, feedback and requests to: psynationradio@gmail.com #wearepsynation Track list: 1. Aqualize - Land of 2 Suns / Liquid Soul remix (Iboga records) 2. Mindbenderz & Kalki - In Your Mind (Techsafari records) 3. Protobase - Escape from Reality (Shamanic Tales records) 4. BLiSS - Float (Iboga records) 5. Deliriant - Echoes in the Infinite (Expo records) 6. Ace Ventura & GMS - Mindshift (Mutant Disco records) 7. Artmis - Momentum (Future Music records) 8. Outsiders & NoFace - Fuse our Minds (Shamanic Tales records) 9. Mad Maxx & Avan7 - Aerial Phenomenon (United Beats records) 10.Killerwatts & Alienatic - Freaky Family / GMS remix (Nano records) E-Clip guest mix tracklist: 1. Liquid Soul - Cydonia / E-Clip remix ) 2. E-Clip & Inner State - Source of Reality 3. E-Clip & Sonic Entity - Fractal Transmission 4. Liquid Sound & E-Clip - NN (Unreleased) 5. E-Clip ft Neda Nikolic ft Riya - Pyramid 6. Zen Mechanics & E-Clip - Higher Reality 7. E-Clip - Cosmic Flow 8. E-Clip - Umbral 9. Zen Mechanics & Egorythmia - Shores of the Subconscious / E-Clip remix 10. E-Clip ft Riya - Dance with Me 11. E-Clip - One Consciousness This show is syndicated & distributed exclusively by Syndicast. If you are a radio station interested in airing the show or would like to distribute your podcast / radio show please register here: https://syndicast.co.uk/distribution/registration

To Follow Us On Patreon—> https://www.patreon.com/c/MetaMysteriesSubscribe to our Youtube---> http://www.youtube.com/@MetaMysteriesPodcastTo Follow Us On TikTok—> https://www.tiktok.com/@metamysteries111Give us a follow on Instagram---> @MetaMysteriesFor 10% OFF Orgonite----> Click Here! (Use Code: ONE)Reach out to us! ---> MetaMysteries111@gmail.comTo find Jonathan's TikTok --> Iboga.TalkBecome a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/cult-of-conspiracy--5700337/support.

Tantra is an ancient tradition and tool for expansion and liberation. To break it down to its Sanskrit roots, "tan" means to stretch or expand, and "tra" translates to instrument or technique. While your host, Stephanie, is a very fresh student in this world, the practices and tools she's learned from her studies have had her wondering, "Why isn't everyone doing this??"So on this episode Stephanie shares her walk into this tantric path, which unsurprisingly, started with a plant medicine ceremony, and launched her into the hardest breakup of her life. Practicing tantra has been the game changer, transforming her feelings of being a complete sad sack in this divorce into feeling like a thriving, radiant human. Highlights from this episode: - Stephanie's experience working on a 6- week course on left-handed tantric practices, called O-Bliss by Layla Martin, which has turned into a life-changing 6-month process - Lessons on accessing turn on and radiance, regardless of what we're moving through in life - History of Goddess worship and the difference between a matrilineal society vs a matriarchal vs patriarchal society - The left-handed path of tantra vs the right-handed path and why understanding this difference has helped Stephanie understand her own life Show Notes: Layla Martin and Mama Gena Podcast episode O-Bliss Course by Layla Martin Courses by Sally KemptonRelated Episode: Whispers of Service and Iboga with Joaly Trinidad If you'd like to connect with Stephanie, you can find her here:Instagram-@schoolofwhispers @__steef___ email-schoolofwhispers@gmail.com DISCLAIMER: This podcast is presented for educational and exploratory purposes only. Published content is not intended to be used for diagnosing or treating any illness. Those responsible for this show disclaim responsibility for any possible adverse effects from the use of information presented by Stephanie or her guests.

To Follow Us On Patreon—> https://www.patreon.com/c/MetaMysteriesSubscribe to our Youtube---> http://www.youtube.com/@MetaMysteriesPodcastTo Follow Us On TikTok—> https://www.tiktok.com/@metamysteries111Give us a follow on Instagram---> @MetaMysteriesFor 10% OFF Orgonite----> Click Here! (Use Code: ONE)Reach out to us! ---> MetaMysteries111@gmail.comTo find Jonathan's TikTok --> Iboga.TalkBecome a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/meta-mysteries--5795466/support.

Support the show:https://www.paypal.me/Truelifepodcast?locale.x=en_USBuy Grow kit: https://modernmushroomcultivation.com/This Band willl Blow your Mind! Codex Serafini: https://codexserafini.bandcamp.com/album/the-imprecation-of-animaHe doesn't offer therapy.He offers amputation—of illusion, of ego, of everything that keeps you from the truth.Vicente Alonso is not here to fix you.He's here to dismantle you—quietly, precisely, without apology.Trained in Gestalt, but tempered by a decade in the shadow of Dr. Claudio Naranjo,Vicente doesn't guide with words.He hunts with presence.Ibogaine is not a tool in his hand.It's the blade he honed on his own soul.Meditation made him still.Suffering made him exact.Now he moves like a sniper through the psyche—tracking trauma through breath, memory, and myth.As co-founder of AH-Samatā and director of IbogaQuest,he's built a method where neuroscience kneels before the sacred,and therapy becomes ritual dissection.This isn't healing.It's psychic surgery under candlelight.No anesthesia. No escape.This is Vicente.Step in only if you're ready to die to who you were—and live like the wound never lied.https://www.ibogaquest.com/ Support the show:https://www.paypal.me/Truelifepodcast?locale.x=en_USCheck out our YouTube:https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLPzfOaFtA1hF8UhnuvOQnTgKcIYPI9Ni9&si=Jgg9ATGwzhzdmjkgGrow your own:https://modernmushroomcultivation.com/This Band Will Blow Your Mind: Codex Serafinihttps://codexserafini.bandcamp.com/album/the-imprecation-of-anima

⁠Doing the Work with Iboga: ⁠The World's Most Comprehensive Iboga Preparation & Integration Program. In this episode, Lana chats with Leo Van Veenendaal, author of The Iboga Experience, about his profound journey with Iboga and the insights he's gained from his personal experiences and the research he conducted for his book. Leo shares his unique perspective on Iboga, its role in healing, and the importance of preparation, integration, and guidance when working with this powerful plant medicine.Key Topics Covered:Leo's Journey with Iboga: How a transformative Ayahuasca experience led Leo to discover Iboga and the deep shifts it created in his life.The Role of Iboga in Healing: Insights on how Iboga functions as a powerful tool for personal transformation, healing, and uncovering blind spots.The Challenges of Writing About Iboga: Leo discusses the process of writing The Iboga Experience, navigating cultural sensitivities, and helping others understand the diversity of Iboga experiences.The Importance of Preparation & Integration: Leo emphasizes the necessity of setting clear intentions and preparing properly for an Iboga ceremony, as well as the long-term integration process.Iboga's Influence on Other Plant Medicines: How Iboga has shaped Leo's experience with other plant medicines, including his observations on the unique energy it brings.Lessons from Bwiti Tradition: Reflections on the spiritual teachings of the Bwiti people and the importance of patience, wisdom, and taking a long-term perspective on life.Resources Mentioned:The Iboga Experience: Stories from the Sacred and Secret Plant That Saves, Heals, and Transforms Lives [Leo's book]Recommended book on Bwiti tradition (by HW Fernandez) Explore Coaching with Lana:Iboga Integration & Prep Coaching⁠⁠⁠ (NEW-now enrolling)Psychedelically Informed Life Coaching⁠⁠⁠ (6 Month Program)Stay Connected to Modern Psychedelics:Instagram: ⁠⁠⁠@modernpsychedelics⁠⁠⁠YouTube: ⁠⁠⁠Modern Psychedelics YouTube⁠⁠⁠Website: ⁠⁠⁠www.modernpsychedelics.net⁠⁠⁠Substack: The Healthy Ego⁠⁠Free Resources:FREE Iboga Preparation Guide⁠FREE Set Better Goals⁠FREE Integration Journal ⁠FREE Intention Setting Journal⁠FREE Psychedelic Ceremony Checklist⁠FREE Playlists for Psychedelic Journeys + Integration⁠DISCLAIMER: Modern Psychedelics does not endorse or support the illegal consumption of any substances. This show is meant for entertainment purposes only. Modern Psychedelics does not sell or promote the sale of any illegal substances. The thoughts, views, and opinions on this show should not be taken as life advice, medicinal advice, or therapeutic guidance.

Support the show:https://www.paypal.me/Truelifepodcast?locale.x=en_USBuy Grow kit: https://modernmushroomcultivation.com/This Band willl Blow your Mind! Codex Serafini: https://codexserafini.bandcamp.com/album/the-imprecation-of-animaAnders BeattyTonight, we tear back the curtain and torch the altar of the false gods.Because the sacred has been sold.The medicine commodified.The healing — haggled like cheap incense in a back-alley bazaar of white coats and stock options.But not here. Not now.If Alan Watts were here, high as heaven and laughing through eternity,he'd be standing next to Blake, eyes aflame with angels and anarchy,and Alfred North Whitehead, nodding solemnly,watching reality bend and pulse beneath the weight of unspoken truths.They'd speak of a man like Anders Beatty.Not a practitioner.A myth in motion.A survivor of the abyss who returned not to lecture —but to liberate.He didn't read about healing.He bled for it.He took the poison, met the ghosts,and came back with fire in his chest.Anders doesn't speak the language of pharma boardrooms or TED Talks.He speaks in stories, in scars, in the tremble of soul before rebirth.He is what happens when integrity survives the inferno.And now — the same forces that peddle wellness like toothpasteare circling the last true sacraments.Ibogaine — fierce, ancient, untamed —is being dragged toward the chopping block of scalability.But Anders stands as a living shield,saying: Not this one. Not this time.He's here to remind us:healing was never meant to be scalable.The sacred was never meant to be safe.And medicine was never meant to kneel to margin calls.So tonight —Forget the guidelines. Burn the frameworks.This isn't a podcast.This is a war chant for the soul.This is prophecy with blood on its hands.Welcome to the fire.Welcome Anders Beatty.Anders Beatty ibogaine coach talks about preparing for a monomythic ...https://awake.net › rsvp Support the show:https://www.paypal.me/Truelifepodcast?locale.x=en_USCheck out our YouTube:https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLPzfOaFtA1hF8UhnuvOQnTgKcIYPI9Ni9&si=Jgg9ATGwzhzdmjkgGrow your own:https://modernmushroomcultivation.com/This Band Will Blow Your Mind: Codex Serafinihttps://codexserafini.bandcamp.com/album/the-imprecation-of-anima

After the heartbreaking loss of my brother, I traveled to the jungle to sit with a powerful plant medicine called Iboga - a sacred teacher known for revealing deep truths. What unfolded was the most unexpected and healing experience of my life: I got to speak with my brother again. In this episode, I share how that night changed my understanding of grief, death, and what's truly possible beyond this world. Disclaimer: This episode shares my personal experience with Iboga and is not intended as medical advice or a recommendation. Plant medicines are not for everyone - please do thorough research and consult qualified professionals before considering any journey of this kind. Things Mentioned: Iboga Preparation & Integration Coaching Iboga YouTube Playlist Ayahuasca YouTube Playlist Iboga Wellness Center 1:1 Life Coaching with Zoey Free Resources: The Digital Nomad Playbook Guaranteed Abundance Morning Journal Prompts Reflect, Reset & Radiate Journal Prompts Monthly Intention Setting Workbook FREE Inspirational Emails If you enjoyed this episode please rate & review it on Spotify & Apple Podcasts. More from Zoey: Website | Instagram YouTube - Main Channel | Vlog Channel

Troy Valencia is an accomplished researcher, author, musician, and practitioner with a unique interdisciplinary background in science, psychology, and traditional Bwiti spiritual practice.  He holds Master's degrees in Analytical Chemistry and East-West Psychology and is completing his Doctorate in Clinical Psychology.   Troy is also the founder of Root & Wisdom, an Iboga platform in Costa Rica with his wife Joaly Trinidad, and the founder of Sacred Roots Foundation, a 501(c)(3) nonprofit organization committed to supporting Indigenous peoples and communities.  Of Gabonese lineage on his paternal side, Troy integrates his cultural heritage with scientific and psychological expertise.   This podcast will focus on his new work, Living Beyond the Mind:  The End of Personal Suffering (2025).  For more information about Troy and his blessed life, please see:  https://rootandwisdom.com/our-team/ https://www.instagram.com/troyvalencia_/ This podcast is available your favorite podcast platform, or here: https://endoftheroad.libsyn.com/episode-316-troy-valencia-living-beyond-the-mindbwitiremembering Have a blessed weekend!  

In this episode of Psychedelics Today, hosts sit down with Jeff Breau from Harvard Divinity School's Center for the Study of World Religions. Key themes include the intersection of psychedelics and religion, harm reduction practices, and the burgeoning psychedelic church movement. Jeff brings insights from his ethnographic research on psychedelic churches and discusses the importance of interdisciplinary collaboration for advancing understanding in this field. He also delves into the role of music in psychedelic therapy, critiques of the Mystical Experience Questionnaire (MEQ), and the potential for psychedelic chaplaincy. Tune in for an enlightening conversation on the evolving landscape of psychedelics in society and spirituality.   00:00 Introduction and Welcome 00:18 Music in Psychedelic Therapy 02:13 Cultural Context of Music in Therapy 06:08 Personal Journey into Psychedelics and Religion 08:40 Living at an Ashram and Spiritual Practices 15:52 Mystical Experience Questionnaire (MEQ) 33:01 Psychedelic Churches and Legal Challenges 46:11 The Intersection of Law and Religion 46:34 Emergence of Psychedelic Churches 48:41 The Democratization of Mystical Experiences 49:49 Technologies of Revelation 51:10 Novel Rituals and Spiritual Practices 53:49 Humor and Irreverence in Religion 56:44 Reevaluating the Term 'Cult' 01:10:11 Psychedelic Chaplaincy and Spiritual Care 01:18:44 Burning Man as a Model for Religiosity 01:22:43 The Rise of Iboga in American Christianity 01:25:56 Conclusion and Future Directions Links https://cswr.hds.harvard.edu/people/jeffrey-breau

We had an “before iboga” article and podcast episode where I shared what my experience has been with sacred plants, and where Larry made the announcement that he would be participating in an iboga ritual.For that episode, go here and make sure to log behind the paywall for the Wisdom Keeper hour to hear our panelists' experiences with sacred plants, their viewpoints and research.This week, we are covering not only Larry's experience with the iboga sacred plant, but we have also interviewed two of our panelists as well as our friend Craig, all of whom participated in the ritual.One of the things that became clear to me, was that the plant is not to be taken lightly. There are certain things the person needs to prepare before the ritual, including cutting out stimulants such as coffee. Also, certain supplements do not participate well with the experience.Although the ritual can last just a few hours, the work with the plant can start weeks if not months before the ritual, and can last many days or weeks after it. There was information I received for three of the participants beforehand, during and after the ritual. These were sometimes to help me understand what was happening but mostly it was almost like the plant wanted me to deliver a message that they were not listening to.I did not participate in the ritual myself.Larry had a bit of a tough time during the ritual. He had certain concepts and issues that were tough for him to work with. In the end, he came out of it with a certainty that he was done with addictive behaviors.From a third party perspective, I have seen that Larry is now less willing to put up with blocks and frustrating situations. One might say that he expresses his feelings more easily. Whether the feelings are joy or anger, they are expressed more readily at a physical and emotional level. It almost feels like a block between himself and his body has been removed. Like a mask is no longer there. He also wakes early and spends hours in the morning doing physical things on our property, getting a morning sweat going, a go and do it with much less check the on-line world interference. Online world has diminished greatly in importance, while the outside world has become more important. This is a good thing/bad thing for an individual whose work now involves much more online tasks, and much less outside tasks. I did notice that the amount of online time he spends watching random videos or on facebook clickbait is greatly reduced, choosing instead to spend that online time learning skills and being busy at work.Larry shares his full experience in our podcast here, and on the Wisdom Keeper Hour we get to interview Craig, Ashley and Fred. You will be familiar with Ashley and Fred as our second hour panelists.The discussion doesn't stop here—listen to the full podcast episode for unfiltered insights from Inelia and our panelists. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.drivingtotherez.com/subscribe

What if the clarity you're seeking—mental, emotional, physical, and spiritual—has always been hiding in the plants around you? In this solo episode, Darin Olien dives deep into the world of clarogenic plants—natural allies that indigenous cultures have used for centuries to unlock focus, purpose, and deep inner harmony. From adaptogens and dream-inducing herbs to ancient sacred botanicals used in vision quests and spiritual rituals, this episode opens a new portal to understanding clarity not as something to chase—but something to remember.     What You'll Learn in This Episode: 00:00 – Welcome to the SuperLife solo episode on clarogenic plants 01:00 – What “clarogenic” really means: mental, physical, and spiritual clarity 02:10 – These aren't just detox tools—they're consciousness-enhancers 03:00 – Why our modern world clouds our system: EMFs, stress, food, tech 04:00 – Ayahuasca, vision quests, and Darin's early plant medicine experiences 06:00 – Plants that bring clarity without psychedelics: assam, sacred tobacco, and nicotine 08:00 – Iboga and its role in trauma release and truth-seeking 09:00 – Elevation plants: kanna, kola nut, and their brain-enhancing effects 10:00 – Sage and sweetgrass: clarity of space as a spiritual detox 11:00 – Tulsi, Bacopa, sandalwood, reishi, and herbs that calm and clear 13:00 – Ginseng, Schisandra, and the “chi” of hormonal balance 14:00 – Kava for emotional stability and nervous system clarity 15:00 – Noni and durian: pungent powerhouses for detox and calm 16:00 – Studies backing bacopa, Rhodiola, and ginkgo for cognition 17:00 – Gōtu Kola and its antioxidant, brain-clearing properties 18:00 – The true purpose of herbs: they are information, not just nutrition 19:00 – Liver clarity through milk thistle, dandelion, burdock root 20:00 – Chlorella, spirulina, and their role in cellular cleansing 21:00 – Internal vs. external sage: clearing your space and your system 22:00 – Frankincense for depression, Tulsi for divine connection 23:00 – How to build your own daily ritual of clarogenesis 24:00 – Darin's parasite cleanse experience + physical stagnation 25:00 – Why detox is emotional and spiritual, not just physical 26:00 – Plants help you remember who you are 27:00 – This is more than health—it's a revolution of clarity 28:00 – Final thoughts: clarity is alignment, not hustle     Thank You to Our Sponsor: Bite Toothpaste: Go to trybite.com/DARIN20 or use code DARIN20 for 20% off your first order. Fatty15: Get an additional 15% off their 90-day subscription Starter Kit by going to https://fatty15.com/DARIN and using code DARIN at checkout.   Find More From Darin Olien: Website: darinolien.com Instagram: @darinolien SuperLife Products: superlife.com Book: Fatal Conveniences   Key Takeaway: "These plants don't just heal you. They help you remember who you are." – Darin Olien

Aspen Psychedelic Symposium 2024 – Hosted by Kevin Franciotti This powerful panel explores the healing potential and complex responsibilities that come with working with Ibogaine, a potent plant-based psychedelic. Moderator Kevin Franciotti guides a heartfelt and informative conversation with Talia Eisenberg, Tom Feegel, and Dr. Lola "Dr. O" Hoba, highlighting personal transformation, medical protocols, and the importance of honoring traditional knowledge. Personal Journeys with Ibogaine Talia Eisenberg shares her recovery from opioid addiction and the founding of BEOND Ibogaine, a medical treatment center in Cancun, Mexico. Her story illustrates the plant's unique power to interrupt addiction and awaken purpose. Tom Feegel, co-founder and CEO of BEOND, shares how his own trauma and long-term sobriety inspired a vision for a safe, respectful, and medically supervised environment for deep healing. Clinical and Cultural Wisdom Dr. Lola Hoba offers insights as a pharmacist and Yoruba herbalist, bridging traditional plant medicine knowledge with modern pharmacology. She describes how iboga works on multiple brain receptors and why it holds so much promise for treating addiction, depression, and trauma. She also cautions about its cardiac risks and calls for respectful, trained facilitation. Safety, Access, and Sustainability Panelists discuss the rigorous safety protocols at BEOND, including ICU-level care, psychiatric screening, and pre-treatment evaluations. They also explore broader questions: How can this medicine be offered responsibly? What does reciprocity mean in practice? BEOND supports Blessings of the Forest, a nonprofit in Gabon that works to stop poaching and protect Indigenous access to the sacred root. A Call for Balance and Respect This conversation highlights the importance of blending science, spirit, and social justice. From trauma healing to sustainable sourcing, each panelist emphasizes the need for compassion, caution, and connection. As laws change and access grows, the panel urges all involved to move forward with care—for the medicine, the people it serves, and the cultures that have stewarded it for generations.

The journey of the Shaman (and yes, I am using this word in the modern sense of native people's wisdom keepers), sometimes involves the use of a sacred plant.In the past few months, the Iboga plant made an appearance in our community. So much so that Larry has researched the plant with the possibility of joining a ceremony. Finding a place has been quite an adventure spanning the globe from Africa to Portugal to Canada and Mexico. The plant itself remarked to larry and I that it's journey out of Africa, specifically from the medicine bags of the Pygmy, was intended to assist people through the time we are in now, specifically shifting consciousness from light dark to light, and that the secrecy it was kept in carried it forward to now in full power undiluted. Many current voices we listen to have had direct experiences of a pretty remarkable transformation, a real choice point that makes a big shift in their lives from one littered with negative low frequency limitations such as addictions and traumas held as PTSD to a life free of the burden of packing these around. A week or so, in some cases a month, of prep ceremony and after integration, and many report a return to the state of mind they existed in before the traumas or addictions took over their lives. The one they were born as. One shaman expressed there are three paths he was aware of those who use iboga follow, some for addiction release, some for coming of age, and some enter with a meditative mindset. It appears the plant root is becoming very interesting to light shamans, brides and grooms of gaia, and those whose choice of mission is now to become, be, pure light.I was of the opinion, fifteen years ago, that no sacred plant drug was going to enter my body, no matter what! I was very, very stern about this opinion.One day, I woke up to the vision of an ancestor, a Machi, an old lady with no teeth, looking at me and saying, “mushroom”.I jumped into righteousness and said to her, “not going to happen! No mind altering, strong or hallucinogenic drugs are entering my body. No way, no when.”She kept coming back, over the next few weeks and months, continuously, only one word in her lips, “mushroom.”And I kept reacting in the same way. “Not going to happen.”One day, I woke up with the constant back pain I was used to from the age of 18, after having injured my back in a motorbike accident. This pain was something chronic and something that I would manage with the processing exercise. It never went away, but it became less intense in the morning after processing so that I could get on with my day.That day, however, the pain did not lessen. Instead it intensified. By four in the afternoon, it was so bad I felt my body going into shock. I called my husband at the time and told him I needed to go to the hospital. Knowing how I felt about doctors and hospitals, he knew it was serious. He rushed home and rushed me to the emergency room. I got there just as the ER shift was changing, half a dozen nurses saw me through the car window and ran over. They put me in a gurney and ran me all the way to the back, where the most injured people are seen.I was treated for shock and then seen by a doctor. They started intravenous pain medication and I was not fighting these drugs because I was literally dying. None of them worked. They kept asking me if I took pain medication because apparently my resistance to them was absolute, I told them that the only one I ever took was ibuprofen or aspirin. Yet, nothing was working. They went to higher and higher doses, until a higher dose would be lethal, then changed to a different drug. Morphine, and other such things. Nothing worked and my body kept going back into a state of shock, which at a certain point can be deadly.At some point a doctor or nurse came in with a medicine that was different to the rest. She explained that it was their last choice, due to whatever. I don't remember exactly what she said as by now it was the early hours of the next day and I was ready to just die. I nodded for it to be administered, she made me sign some papers, and she placed it in the IV. At that moment, the old lady with no teeth popped up in front of me, smiled and nodded. She then said in a relaxed voice filled with humour, “mushroom.” Then vanished.I then saw a whole history of Earth and Gaia, and much more. The pain vanished immediately.After my body recuperated from the pain and shock, I asked the nurse/doctor what that medicine was, she said, “it is a mushroom derivative, rare and last resort.”After that, I decided that if that toothless lady ever turned up again and suggested something, I would do it immediately. No need to be tortured to the point of death twice!Some years later, she came back and said, “Ayahuasca”.I immediately said, “yes ma'am.” I then researched it for a few months, connected with the plant, got the ingredients, prepared it and did ceremony, got my body ready and took the sacred plant. We will talk of my experience of this ceremony in the wisdom keepers part of our podcast, available at drivingtotherez.com for subscribers, since this is private in nature.The discussion doesn't stop here—listen to the full podcast episode for unfiltered insights from Inelia and our panelists. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.drivingtotherez.com/subscribe

In this milestone 400th podcast episode, Kyle Kingsbury dives into a solo discussion at the start of the year (spring) to reflect on various topics and share exciting updates. Kyle begins by contemplating the historical significance of celebrating the New Year in the spring, tying it to his personal experiences and birthday around the equinox. He announces the upcoming launch of his website and new community projects. Kyle discusses the importance of solo reflections, dietary habits, and the impact of fasting and metabolic flexibility on health. He shares personal anecdotes from his MMA journey and training experiences, emphasizing the lessons learned from martial arts. Kyle also delves into the benefits of innovative fitness techniques like blood flow restriction training and the significance of getting sunshine, walking, and engaging with nature. He touches on health supplements like Methylene Blue and microdosing Iboga, addressing concerns and misinformation. Plus so much more.  We are bringing in some major new beginnings.  The biggest one being the new community.  If your interested... Sign up for early access here! Also, feel free to shoot us an email here!   Our Sponsors: Go to AliveWaters.com and use code: KKP for 33% off your first order.  https://alivewaters.com/discount/KKP If you're 21+, treat yourself to VIIA's annual SPRING 420 SALE – Black Friday-level savings up to 35% sitewide right now, up to 50% OFF packs and bundles AND get a FREE GIFT + MORE SAVINGS with your first order using our exclusive code: KKP Go to EarthRunners.com and use the code KKP at checkout for 10% off.  Use Code KKP   Connect with Kyle: I'm back on Instagram, come say hey @kylekingsbu Twitter: @kingsbu Fit For Service Academy App: Fit For Service App Our Farm Initiative: @gardenersofeden.earth Odysee: odysee.com/@KyleKingsburypod Youtube: Kyle Kingbury Podcast Kyle's Website: www.kingsbu.com - Gardeners of Eden site If you enjoyed this podcast, please subscribe & leave a 5-star review with your thoughts!