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American Writers (One Hundred Pages at a Time)
Robert A. Heinlein Book Club: Episode 6: The Roads Must Roll

American Writers (One Hundred Pages at a Time)

Play Episode Listen Later Jan 10, 2023 21:48


I agree that the "roads must roll", but to what degree does that mean we should be obliged to one class of people? Perhaps I look into that in this review of "The Roads Must Roll" by Heinlein.

American Writers (One Hundred Pages at a Time)
Robert A. Heinlein Book Club:Episode 5: Let There Be Light

American Writers (One Hundred Pages at a Time)

Play Episode Listen Later Jan 6, 2023 21:36


In the 1940 story "Let There Be Light", Heinlein takes on the question of IP and public good, but much more radically than in "Life-Line." And based gender politics too.

Das war der Tag (komplette Sendung) - Deutschlandfunk
Das war der Tag, 03.01.2023, komplette Sendung

Das war der Tag (komplette Sendung) - Deutschlandfunk

Play Episode Listen Later Jan 3, 2023 46:53


Heinlein, Stefanwww.deutschlandfunk.de, Das war der TagDirekter Link zur Audiodatei

Marietta Daily Journal Podcast
2 children pulled from partially frozen Kennesaw lake; one dead

Marietta Daily Journal Podcast

Play Episode Listen Later Dec 30, 2022 14:34


Two children were pulled from a partially frozen lake in Kennesaw after falling into the water, MDJ news partner Fox 5 reported. Authorities say one of two children has died, and the other is expected to survice. Cobb County fire said the children were playing on the lake when they fell into the water. A large police presence responded to the lake, located off Ellison Lakes Drive near Cobb Parkway, Fox 5 reported. Shortly before 5 p.m., residents reported seeing about a half-dozen children playing near the south side of the lake just off a trail that runs beside it. Alex Pollard says he was bringing groceries in when he noticed the children. Moments later, neighbors would report hearing screams. The two children had fallen through the ice. Pollard yelled for his roommate to call 911. The named and ages of the children were not released. Three members of Cobb Fire were also treated at the scene for cold exposure that they suffered when they entered the freezing water to try and rescue the second victim. Fire Department spokesperson Nick Danz urged people not to go out on frozen bodies of water, as it may be hard to know the thickness and sturdiness of the ice. A Marietta man was arrested Monday for allegedly molesting two children. Tyquan Kent, 38, is charged with 11 counts of child molestation, two counts of rape and one count of furnishing obscene materials to minors, all felonies. He is accused of molesting and raping an 8-year-old and 10-year-old sometime between August and December. A warrant for Kent's arrest said the alleged crimes took place at a Motel 6 on South Cobb Drive and a Red Roof Inn on Corporate Plaza Parkway in Smyrna. According to the warrant, a 7-year-old child was present when Kent allegedly molested the two children at the Red Roof Inn, resulting in an additional child molestation charge. Kent is being held at the Cobb County Adult Detention Center without bond, according to jail records. In 2010, when Foxes and Fossils played their first gig, there were about 50 people in the audience. Most of crowd was there for pizza. A cohort of family members, church colleagues and friends helped swell the cheering section. And yet, said videographer Terry Heinlein, this group of supporters, filling up the seats at Bella's pizza parlor in Smyrna, was probably the largest bunch of fans that ever came to a Foxes and Fossils show just to see the band. Heinlein added that at all the other Foxes and Fossils gigs, at Twisted Taco and the Crafty Hog and Keswik Park, there were people there to see the band, but plenty of other people were there just for the barbecue. Vocalist Maggie Adams, one of the “Foxes,” was 16 years old at the time of the Bella's gig. She agreed: “We were mostly background music for pizza and tacos.” The “Foxes” were the young female members of the band, including Adams, Sammie Purcell and Chase Truron. They all grew up and went to college. The “Fossils,” including Sammie's father Tim Purcell, the founder of the band, recognized that without the Foxes, they weren't going to draw a crowd. The band essentially broke up. They existed only on YouTube, where Tim posted videos of their old performances. Quietly, those videos began to gain an audience. More than a year after they stopped performing, Foxes and Fossils started tasting fame and began earning revenue from their internet views and merchandise. Twelve years and 83 million YouTube views later, Foxes and Fossils is staging its first ticketed concert as a headliner. The most famous unknown cover band from Smyrna is charging $100 a seat for two shows, the first was last night and the second is tonight. That's what Billy Strings is charging at State Farm Arena. The venue is the Legendary Ford Hall, a 500-capacity facility in Hapeville that began as a car dealership and has served as a church. Both shows are almost sold out. Tickets can be purchased at Rebelity dot com. Pope got its second win over Kennesaw Mountain in a little over a week, defeating its county rival 55-47 in the first round of the Hounds Holiday Hoop Classic at Pope High School on Wednesday. The Greyhounds defeated the Mustangs 66-58 in the championship game of the Alpharetta-Pope Holiday Classic on Dec. 20. After a close first half, Pope pulled away from Kennesaw Mountain) in the third quarter to take control of the game and advance to the semifinals. Ryan Luttrell scored 20 points, including six 3-pointers, while Devin Royal added 10 points and Zach Bleshoy – who scored 36 points in the first game against Kennesaw Mountain – contributed nine points, despite playing with an injured back, to lead Pope. Elijah Ford led the Mustangs with 19 points, while Hayden Hall added 10. Kennesaw Mountain held the early advantage with a 14-12 lead at the end of the first quarter and increased its advantage to 17-12 at the beginning of the second on a 3-pointer by Hall with 7:08 remaining. However, Pope caught fire as it proceeded to go on a 13-3 run – fueled by four 3-pointers, including back-to-back 3s by Colby West – to take a 25-20 lead and the Greyhounds ended the first half ahead 27-25. Pope continued to stretch its advantage in the third quarter as it made three more 3-pointers – two of them by Luttrell – to finish the period with a 41-31 lead. The Greyhounds led by as much as 12 points – 47-35 with 4:43 remaining in the game. President Joe Biden has signed legislation aimed at protecting the Chattahoochee River. The first-of-its-kind measure authorizes $90 million in federal funds for the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers to work with local partners on water projects throughout the Chattahoochee River system. Biden signed the bill last week as part of congressional reauthorization of the Water Resources and Development Act. According to the Georgia River Network, the Chattahoochee supplies 70% of metro Atlanta's drinking water. The river is also a key source of water for farmers and an important source of power generation through hydroelectric dams. However, more than 1,000 miles of waterway within the Chattahoochee watershed do not meet water quality standards, creating potential health risks to humans and wildlife. In 2019, the National Park Service reported visitors to the Chattahoochee River National Recreation Area added more than $200 million to the metro region's economy, supporting more than 2,000 local jobs.        See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

American Writers (One Hundred Pages at a Time)
Robert A. Heinlin Book Club: Episode 3: Life-Line

American Writers (One Hundred Pages at a Time)

Play Episode Listen Later Dec 29, 2022 21:53


What happens to insurance companies when a scientist can predict the moment of your death? Should corporations be able to stop the spread of knowledge that benefits humanity? Heinlein takes on these questions in his first published story, "Life-Line". I talk about these themes in this episode.

Jeffrey R. DeRego's Bunch of Stuffcast
Heinlein Marathon: Starship Troopers

Jeffrey R. DeRego's Bunch of Stuffcast

Play Episode Listen Later Dec 24, 2022 68:54


Hey it is the long awaited deep dive into Robert Heinlein's Starship Troopers, my all time favorite book and all time least favorite movie! You can also find the deep text related to this review at my Tumblr page - https://www.tumblr.com/blog/jrderego where a more comprehensive text will be uploaded and you can also read 5000 words about why I dislike the new film version of All Quiet on the Western Front!

Das war der Tag (komplette Sendung) - Deutschlandfunk
Das war der Tag, 20.12.2022, komplette Sendung

Das war der Tag (komplette Sendung) - Deutschlandfunk

Play Episode Listen Later Dec 20, 2022 47:35


Heinlein, Stefanwww.deutschlandfunk.de, Das war der TagDirekter Link zur Audiodatei

Informationen am Abend - Deutschlandfunk
Informationen am Abend, 19.12.2022, komplette Sendung

Informationen am Abend - Deutschlandfunk

Play Episode Listen Later Dec 19, 2022 29:53


Heinlein, Stefanwww.deutschlandfunk.de, Informationen am AbendDirekter Link zur Audiodatei

Informationen am Abend - komplette Sendung - Deutschlandfunk
Informationen am Abend, 19.12.2022, komplette Sendung

Informationen am Abend - komplette Sendung - Deutschlandfunk

Play Episode Listen Later Dec 19, 2022 29:53


Heinlein, Stefanwww.deutschlandfunk.de, Informationen am AbendDirekter Link zur Audiodatei

Lore & Valor
The Past Through Tomorrow- The Roads Must Roll

Lore & Valor

Play Episode Listen Later Dec 14, 2022 13:24


Continuing our journey through Heinlein's definitive short story collection; The Past Through Tomorrow with the second story in the anthology—“The Roads Must Roll.” Come join the discussion on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/groups/5830648613635275 My work is here: https://www.justinwatsonbooks.com/ Also Recommending No Game for Knights, edited by Larry Correia and my pal Kacey Ezell: https://www.amazon.com/No-Game-Knights-Larry-Correia/dp/1982192089/ref #authortube #robertaheinlein #sciencefiction #goldenageofsciencefiction #heinlienreviews #booktube #sciencefictionreviews #sciencefictionbooks #classicsciencefiction

Interviews - Deutschlandfunk
Analyse zum Kriegsgeschehen - Militärexperte: Winter könnte für russische Truppen härter werden

Interviews - Deutschlandfunk

Play Episode Listen Later Dec 14, 2022 9:07


Wenn man auf das aktuelle Kriegsgeschehen schaue, sehe man auf russischer Seite eine gewisse Konsolidierung, auch durch die Mobilisierung. Strukturell seien die Ukrainer aber besser auf den Winter vorbereitet und hätten im Krieg eine bessere Führung gezeigt.Heinlein, Stefanwww.deutschlandfunk.de, InterviewsDirekter Link zur Audiodatei

Interviews - Deutschlandfunk
EU-Korruptionsbekämpfung - EU-Politikerin Beer: Regeln gelten nach innen und außen

Interviews - Deutschlandfunk

Play Episode Listen Later Dec 14, 2022 10:31


Der Fall Eva Kaili hat uns alle unfassbar erschüttert, sagte EU-Parlaments-Vize Nicola Beer (FDP). Man habe den Korruptionsskandal aber aufgedeckt und zur Anklage gebracht - das zeige den funktionierenden Rechtsstaat. Heinlein, Stefanwww.deutschlandfunk.de, InterviewsDirekter Link zur Audiodatei

Informationen am Morgen - Deutschlandfunk
EU-Korruptionsbekämpfung - EU-Politikerin Beer: Regeln gelten nach innen und außen

Informationen am Morgen - Deutschlandfunk

Play Episode Listen Later Dec 14, 2022 10:31


Der Fall Eva Kaili hat uns alle unfassbar erschüttert, sagte EU-Parlaments-Vize Nicola Beer (FDP). Man habe den Korruptionsskandal aber aufgedeckt und zur Anklage gebracht - das zeige den funktionierenden Rechtsstaat. Heinlein, Stefanwww.deutschlandfunk.de, InterviewsDirekter Link zur Audiodatei

Das Wichtigste heute Morgen - Deutschlandfunk
Das Wichtigste heute Morgen

Das Wichtigste heute Morgen - Deutschlandfunk

Play Episode Listen Later Dec 14, 2022 7:39


Heinlein, Stefanwww.deutschlandfunk.de, Informationen am MorgenDirekter Link zur Audiodatei

Informationen am Abend - komplette Sendung - Deutschlandfunk
Informationen am Abend, 09.12.2022, komplette Sendung

Informationen am Abend - komplette Sendung - Deutschlandfunk

Play Episode Listen Later Dec 9, 2022 29:58


Heinlein, Stefanwww.deutschlandfunk.de, Informationen am AbendDirekter Link zur Audiodatei

Informationen am Abend - Deutschlandfunk
Informationen am Abend, 09.12.2022, komplette Sendung

Informationen am Abend - Deutschlandfunk

Play Episode Listen Later Dec 9, 2022 29:58


Heinlein, Stefanwww.deutschlandfunk.de, Informationen am AbendDirekter Link zur Audiodatei

Informationen am Abend - Deutschlandfunk
Informationen am Abend, 02.12.2022, komplette Sendung

Informationen am Abend - Deutschlandfunk

Play Episode Listen Later Dec 2, 2022 30:41


Heinlein, Stefanwww.deutschlandfunk.de, Informationen am AbendDirekter Link zur Audiodatei

Informationen am Abend - komplette Sendung - Deutschlandfunk
Informationen am Abend, 02.12.2022, komplette Sendung

Informationen am Abend - komplette Sendung - Deutschlandfunk

Play Episode Listen Later Dec 2, 2022 30:41


Heinlein, Stefanwww.deutschlandfunk.de, Informationen am AbendDirekter Link zur Audiodatei

Das war der Tag (komplette Sendung) - Deutschlandfunk
Das war der Tag, 28.11.2022, komplette Sendung

Das war der Tag (komplette Sendung) - Deutschlandfunk

Play Episode Listen Later Nov 28, 2022 47:06


Heinlein, Stefanwww.deutschlandfunk.de, Das war der TagDirekter Link zur Audiodatei

The College Audition Podcast
Missouri State University, BFA Acting with Kurt Heinlein

The College Audition Podcast

Play Episode Listen Later Nov 25, 2022 53:34


In this episode, Tim sits down with Kurt Heinlein, Professor and Coordinator of the BFA Acting Program at Missouri State University. 

Informationen am Morgen - Deutschlandfunk
Russland-Experte Dubowy - "In den kommenden Wochen öffnet sich ein Fenster für Verhandlungen"

Informationen am Morgen - Deutschlandfunk

Play Episode Listen Later Nov 23, 2022 10:09


Der Russlandexperte Alexander Dubowy von der Uni Wien geht davon aus, dass die Kampfintensität in der Ukraine in nächster Zeit abnehmen wird. Mit "Intensivoperationen" sei erst wieder gegen Ende des Winters zu rechnen. Das ermögliche Verhandlungen.Heinlein, Stefanwww.deutschlandfunk.de, InterviewsDirekter Link zur Audiodatei

Informationen am Morgen - Deutschlandfunk
Bürgergeld-Kompromiss - Frei (CDU): "Sanktionen sind ein Hebel, der am Ende erfolgreich ist"

Informationen am Morgen - Deutschlandfunk

Play Episode Listen Later Nov 23, 2022 10:27


Beim Kompromiss zum Bürgergeld hat die Union unter anderem schärfere Sanktionsmöglichkeiten gegen Leistungsbeziehende durchgesetzt. Das sei keine soziale Kälte, sagte Thorsten Frei (CDU). Es gehe darum, Menschen schnell in Arbeit zurückzuhelfen.Heinlein, Stefanwww.deutschlandfunk.de, InterviewsDirekter Link zur Audiodatei

A History Of Rock Music in Five Hundred Songs
Episode 158: “White Rabbit” by Jefferson Airplane

A History Of Rock Music in Five Hundred Songs

Play Episode Listen Later Nov 23, 2022


Episode one hundred and fifty-eight of A History of Rock Music in Five Hundred Songs looks at “White Rabbit”, Jefferson Airplane, and the rise of the San Francisco sound. Click the full post to read liner notes, links to more information, and a transcript of the episode. Patreon backers also have a twenty-three-minute bonus episode available, on "Omaha" by Moby Grape. Tilt Araiza has assisted invaluably by doing a first-pass edit, and will hopefully be doing so from now on. Check out Tilt's irregular podcasts at http://www.podnose.com/jaffa-cakes-for-proust and http://sitcomclub.com/ Erratum I refer to Back to Methuselah by Robert Heinlein. This is of course a play by George Bernard Shaw. What I meant to say was Methuselah's Children. Resources I hope to upload a Mixcloud tomorrow, and will edit it in, but have had some problems with the site today. Jefferson Airplane's first four studio albums, plus a 1968 live album, can be found in this box set. I've referred to three main books here. Got a Revolution!: The Turbulent Flight of Jefferson Airplane by Jeff Tamarkin is written with the co-operation of the band members, but still finds room to criticise them. Jefferson Airplane On Track by Richard Molesworth is a song-by-song guide to the band's music. And Been So Long: My Life and Music by Jorma Kaukonen is Kaukonen's autobiography. Some information on Skip Spence and Matthew Katz also comes from What's Big and Purple and Lives in the Ocean?: The Moby Grape Story, by Cam Cobb, which I also used for this week's bonus. Patreon This podcast is brought to you by the generosity of my backers on Patreon. Why not join them? Transcript Before I start, I need to confess an important and hugely embarrassing error in this episode. I've only ever seen Marty Balin's name written down, never heard it spoken, and only after recording the episode, during the editing process, did I discover I mispronounce it throughout. It's usually an advantage for the podcast that I get my information from books rather than TV documentaries and the like, because they contain far more information, but occasionally it causes problems like that. My apologies. Also a brief note that this episode contains some mentions of racism, antisemitism, drug and alcohol abuse, and gun violence. One of the themes we've looked at in recent episodes is the way the centre of the musical world -- at least the musical world as it was regarded by the people who thought of themselves as hip in the mid-sixties -- was changing in 1967. Up to this point, for a few years there had been two clear centres of the rock and pop music worlds. In the UK, there was London, and any British band who meant anything had to base themselves there. And in the US, at some point around 1963, the centre of the music industry had moved West. Up to then it had largely been based in New York, and there was still a thriving industry there as of the mid sixties. But increasingly the records that mattered, that everyone in the country had been listening to, had come out of LA Soul music was, of course, still coming primarily from Detroit and from the Country-Soul triangle in Tennessee and Alabama, but when it came to the new brand of electric-guitar rock that was taking over the airwaves, LA was, up until the first few months of 1967, the only city that was competing with London, and was the place to be. But as we heard in the episode on "San Francisco", with the Monterey Pop Festival all that started to change. While the business part of the music business remained centred in LA, and would largely remain so, LA was no longer the hip place to be. Almost overnight, jangly guitars, harmonies, and Brian Jones hairstyles were out, and feedback, extended solos, and droopy moustaches were in. The place to be was no longer LA, but a few hundred miles North, in San Francisco -- something that the LA bands were not all entirely happy about: [Excerpt: The Mothers of Invention, "Who Needs the Peace Corps?"] In truth, the San Francisco music scene, unlike many of the scenes we've looked at so far in this series, had rather a limited impact on the wider world of music. Bands like Jefferson Airplane, the Grateful Dead, and Big Brother and the Holding Company were all both massively commercially successful and highly regarded by critics, but unlike many of the other bands we've looked at before and will look at in future, they didn't have much of an influence on the bands that would come after them, musically at least. Possibly this is because the music from the San Francisco scene was always primarily that -- music created by and for a specific group of people, and inextricable from its context. The San Francisco musicians were defining themselves by their geographical location, their peers, and the situation they were in, and their music was so specifically of the place and time that to attempt to copy it outside of that context would appear ridiculous, so while many of those bands remain much loved to this day, and many made some great music, it's very hard to point to ways in which that music influenced later bands. But what they did influence was the whole of rock music culture. For at least the next thirty years, and arguably to this day, the parameters in which rock musicians worked if they wanted to be taken seriously – their aesthetic and political ideals, their methods of collaboration, the cultural norms around drug use and sexual promiscuity, ideas of artistic freedom and authenticity, the choice of acceptable instruments – in short, what it meant to be a rock musician rather than a pop, jazz, country, or soul artist – all those things were defined by the cultural and behavioural norms of the San Francisco scene between about 1966 and 68. Without the San Francisco scene there's no Woodstock, no Rolling Stone magazine, no Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, no hippies, no groupies, no rock stars. So over the next few months we're going to take several trips to the Bay Area, and look at the bands which, for a brief time, defined the counterculture in America. The story of Jefferson Airplane -- and unlike other bands we've looked at recently, like The Pink Floyd and The Buffalo Springfield, they never had a definite article at the start of their name to wither away like a vestigial organ in subsequent years -- starts with Marty Balin. Balin was born in Ohio, but was a relatively sickly child -- he later talked about being autistic, and seems to have had the chronic illnesses that so often go with neurodivergence -- so in the hope that the dry air would be good for his chest his family moved to Arizona. Then when his father couldn't find work there, they moved further west to San Francisco, in the Haight-Ashbury area, long before that area became the byword for the hippie movement. But it was in LA that he started his music career, and got his surname. Balin had been named Marty Buchwald as a kid, but when he was nineteen he had accompanied a friend to LA to visit a music publisher, and had ended up singing backing vocals on her demos. While he was there, he had encountered the arranger Jimmy Haskell. Haskell was on his way to becoming one of the most prominent arrangers in the music industry, and in his long career he would go on to do arrangements for Bobby Gentry, Blondie, Steely Dan, Simon and Garfunkel, and many others. But at the time he was best known for his work on Ricky Nelson's hits: [Excerpt: Ricky Nelson, "Hello Mary Lou"] Haskell thought that Marty had the makings of a Ricky Nelson style star, as he was a good-looking young man with a decent voice, and he became a mentor for the young man. Making the kind of records that Haskell arranged was expensive, and so Haskell suggested a deal to him -- if Marty's father would pay for studio time and musicians, Haskell would make a record with him and find him a label to put it out. Marty's father did indeed pay for the studio time and the musicians -- some of the finest working in LA at the time. The record, released under the name Marty Balin, featured Jack Nitzsche on keyboards, Earl Palmer on drums, Milt Jackson on vibraphone, Red Callender on bass, and Glen Campbell and Barney Kessell on guitars, and came out on Challenge Records, a label owned by Gene Autry: [Excerpt: Marty Balin, "Nobody But You"] Neither that, nor Balin's follow-up single, sold a noticeable amount of copies, and his career as a teen idol was over before it had begun. Instead, as many musicians of his age did, he decided to get into folk music, joining a vocal harmony group called the Town Criers, who patterned themselves after the Weavers, and performed the same kind of material that every other clean-cut folk vocal group was performing at the time -- the kind of songs that John Phillips and Steve Stills and Cass Elliot and Van Dyke Parks and the rest were all performing in their own groups at the same time. The Town Criers never made any records while they were together, but some archival recordings of them have been released over the decades: [Excerpt: The Town Criers, "900 Miles"] The Town Criers split up, and Balin started performing as a solo folkie again. But like all those other then-folk musicians, Balin realised that he had to adapt to the K/T-event level folk music extinction that happened when the Beatles hit America like a meteorite. He had to form a folk-rock group if he wanted to survive -- and given that there were no venues for such a group to play in San Francisco, he also had to start a nightclub for them to play in. He started hanging around the hootenannies in the area, looking for musicians who might form an electric band. The first person he decided on was a performer called Paul Kantner, mainly because he liked his attitude. Kantner had got on stage in front of a particularly drunk, loud, crowd, and performed precisely half a song before deciding he wasn't going to perform in front of people like that and walking off stage. Kantner was the only member of the new group to be a San Franciscan -- he'd been born and brought up in the city. He'd got into folk music at university, where he'd also met a guitar player named Jorma Kaukonen, who had turned him on to cannabis, and the two had started giving music lessons at a music shop in San Jose. There Kantner had also been responsible for booking acts at a local folk club, where he'd first encountered acts like Mother McCree's Uptown Jug Champions, a jug band which included Jerry Garcia, Pigpen McKernan, and Bob Weir, who would later go on to be the core members of the Grateful Dead: [Excerpt: Mother McCree's Uptown Jug Champions, "In the Jailhouse Now"] Kantner had moved around a bit between Northern and Southern California, and had been friendly with two other musicians on the Californian folk scene, David Crosby and Roger McGuinn. When their new group, the Byrds, suddenly became huge, Kantner became aware of the possibility of doing something similar himself, and so when Marty Balin approached him to form a band, he agreed. On bass, they got in a musician called Bob Harvey, who actually played double bass rather than electric, and who stuck to that for the first few gigs the group played -- he had previously been in a band called the Slippery Rock String Band. On drums, they brought in Jerry Peloquin, who had formerly worked for the police, but now had a day job as an optician. And on vocals, they brought in Signe Toley -- who would soon marry and change her name to Signe Anderson, so that's how I'll talk about her to avoid confusion. The group also needed a lead guitarist though -- both Balin and Kantner were decent rhythm players and singers, but they needed someone who was a better instrumentalist. They decided to ask Kantner's old friend Jorma Kaukonen. Kaukonen was someone who was seriously into what would now be called Americana or roots music. He'd started playing the guitar as a teenager, not like most people of his generation inspired by Elvis or Buddy Holly, but rather after a friend of his had shown him how to play an old Carter Family song, "Jimmy Brown the Newsboy": [Excerpt: The Carter Family, "Jimmy Brown the Newsboy"] Kaukonen had had a far more interesting life than most of the rest of the group. His father had worked for the State Department -- and there's some suggestion he'd worked for the CIA -- and the family had travelled all over the world, staying in Pakistan, the Philippines, and Finland. For most of his childhood, he'd gone by the name Jerry, because other kids beat him up for having a foreign name and called him a Nazi, but by the time he turned twenty he was happy enough using his birth name. Kaukonen wasn't completely immune to the appeal of rock and roll -- he'd formed a rock band, The Triumphs, with his friend Jack Casady when he was a teenager, and he loved Ricky Nelson's records -- but his fate as a folkie had been pretty much sealed when he went to Antioch College. There he met up with a blues guitarist called Ian Buchanan. Buchanan never had much of a career as a professional, but he had supposedly spent nine years studying with the blues and ragtime guitar legend Rev. Gary Davis, and he was certainly a fine guitarist, as can be heard on his contribution to The Blues Project, the album Elektra put out of white Greenwich Village musicians like John Sebastian and Dave Van Ronk playing old blues songs: [Excerpt: Ian Buchanan, "The Winding Boy"] Kaukonen became something of a disciple of Buchanan -- he said later that Buchanan probably taught him how to play because he was such a terrible player and Buchanan couldn't stand to listen to it -- as did John Hammond Jr, another student at Antioch at the same time. After studying at Antioch, Kaukonen started to travel around, including spells in Greenwich Village and in the Philippines, before settling in Santa Clara, where he studied for a sociology degree and became part of a social circle that included Dino Valenti, Jerry Garcia, and Billy Roberts, the credited writer of "Hey Joe". He also started performing as a duo with a singer called Janis Joplin. Various of their recordings from this period circulate, mostly recorded at Kaukonen's home with the sound of his wife typing in the background while the duo rehearse, as on this performance of an old Bessie Smith song: [Excerpt: Jorma Kaukonen and Janis Joplin, "Nobody Loves You When You're Down and Out"] By 1965 Kaukonen saw himself firmly as a folk-blues purist, who would not even think of playing rock and roll music, which he viewed with more than a little contempt. But he allowed himself to be brought along to audition for the new group, and Ken Kesey happened to be there. Kesey was a novelist who had written two best-selling books, One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest and Sometimes A Great Notion, and used the financial independence that gave him to organise a group of friends who called themselves the Merry Pranksters, who drove from coast to coast and back again in a psychedelic-painted bus, before starting a series of events that became known as Acid Tests, parties at which everyone was on LSD, immortalised in Tom Wolfe's book The Electric Kool-Aid Acid Test. Nobody has ever said why Kesey was there, but he had brought along an Echoplex, a reverb unit one could put a guitar through -- and nobody has explained why Kesey, who wasn't a musician, had an Echoplex to hand. But Kaukonen loved the sound that he could get by putting his guitar through the device, and so for that reason more than any other he decided to become an electric player and join the band, going out and buying a Rickenbacker twelve-string and Vox Treble Booster because that was what Roger McGuinn used. He would later also get a Guild Thunderbird six-string guitar and a Standel Super Imperial amp, following the same principle of buying the equipment used by other guitarists he liked, as they were what Zal Yanovsky of the Lovin' Spoonful used. He would use them for all his six-string playing for the next couple of years, only later to discover that the Lovin' Spoonful despised them and only used them because they had an endorsement deal with the manufacturers. Kaukonen was also the one who came up with the new group's name. He and his friends had a running joke where they had "Bluesman names", things like "Blind Outrage" and "Little Sun Goldfarb". Kaukonen's bluesman name, given to him by his friend Steve Talbot, had been Blind Thomas Jefferson Airplane, a reference to the 1920s blues guitarist Blind Lemon Jefferson: [Excerpt: Blind Lemon Jefferson, "Match Box Blues"] At the band meeting where they were trying to decide on a name, Kaukonen got frustrated at the ridiculous suggestions that were being made, and said "You want a stupid name? Howzabout this... Jefferson Airplane?" He said in his autobiography "It was one of those rare moments when everyone in the band agreed, and that was that. I think it was the only band meeting that ever allowed me to come away smiling." The newly-named Jefferson Airplane started to rehearse at the Matrix Club, the club that Balin had decided to open. This was run with three sound engineer friends, who put in the seed capital for the club. Balin had stock options in the club, which he got by trading a share of the band's future earnings to his partners, though as the group became bigger he eventually sold his stock in the club back to his business partners. Before their first public performance, they started working with a manager, Matthew Katz, mostly because Katz had access to a recording of a then-unreleased Bob Dylan song, "Lay Down Your Weary Tune": [Excerpt: Bob Dylan, "Lay Down Your Weary Tune"] The group knew that the best way for a folk-rock band to make a name for themselves was to perform a Dylan song nobody else had yet heard, and so they agreed to be managed by Katz. Katz started a pre-publicity blitz, giving out posters, badges, and bumper stickers saying "Jefferson Airplane Loves You" all over San Francisco -- and insisting that none of the band members were allowed to say "Hello" when they answered the phone any more, they had to say "Jefferson Airplane Loves You!" For their early rehearsals and gigs, they were performing almost entirely cover versions of blues and folk songs, things like Fred Neil's "The Other Side of This Life" and Dino Valenti's "Get Together" which were the common currency of the early folk-rock movement, and songs by their friends, like one called "Flower Bomb" by David Crosby, which Crosby now denies ever having written. They did start writing the odd song, but at this point they were more focused on performance than on writing. They also hired a press agent, their friend Bill Thompson. Thompson was friends with the two main music writers at the San Francisco Chronicle, Ralph Gleason, the famous jazz critic, who had recently started also reviewing rock music, and John Wasserman. Thompson got both men to come to the opening night of the Matrix, and both gave the group glowing reviews in the Chronicle. Record labels started sniffing around the group immediately as a result of this coverage, and according to Katz he managed to get a bidding war started by making sure that when A&R men came to the club there were always two of them from different labels, so they would see the other person and realise they weren't the only ones interested. But before signing a record deal they needed to make some personnel changes. The first member to go was Jerry Peloquin, for both musical and personal reasons. Peloquin was used to keeping strict time and the other musicians had a more free-flowing idea of what tempo they should be playing at, but also he had worked for the police while the other members were all taking tons of illegal drugs. The final break with Peloquin came when he did the rest of the group a favour -- Paul Kantner's glasses broke during a rehearsal, and as Peloquin was an optician he offered to take them back to his shop and fix them. When he got back, he found them auditioning replacements for him. He beat Kantner up, and that was the end of Jerry Peloquin in Jefferson Airplane. His replacement was Skip Spence, who the group had met when he had accompanied three friends to the Matrix, which they were using as a rehearsal room. Spence's friends went on to be the core members of Quicksilver Messenger Service along with Dino Valenti: [Excerpt: Quicksilver Messenger Service, "Dino's Song"] But Balin decided that Spence looked like a rock star, and told him that he was now Jefferson Airplane's drummer, despite Spence being a guitarist and singer, not a drummer. But Spence was game, and learned to play the drums. Next they needed to get rid of Bob Harvey. According to Harvey, the decision to sack him came after David Crosby saw the band rehearsing and said "Nice song, but get rid of the bass player" (along with an expletive before the word bass which I can't say without incurring the wrath of Apple). Crosby denies ever having said this. Harvey had started out in the group on double bass, but to show willing he'd switched in his last few gigs to playing an electric bass. When he was sacked by the group, he returned to double bass, and to the Slippery Rock String Band, who released one single in 1967: [Excerpt: The Slippery Rock String Band, "Tule Fog"] Harvey's replacement was Kaukonen's old friend Jack Casady, who Kaukonen knew was now playing bass, though he'd only ever heard him playing guitar when they'd played together. Casady was rather cautious about joining a rock band, but then Kaukonen told him that the band were getting fifty dollars a week salary each from Katz, and Casady flew over from Washington DC to San Francisco to join the band. For the first few gigs, he used Bob Harvey's bass, which Harvey was good enough to lend him despite having been sacked from the band. Unfortunately, right from the start Casady and Kantner didn't get on. When Casady flew in from Washington, he had a much more clean-cut appearance than the rest of the band -- one they've described as being nerdy, with short, slicked-back, side-parted hair and a handlebar moustache. Kantner insisted that Casady shave the moustache off, and he responded by shaving only one side, so in profile on one side he looked clean-shaven, while from the other side he looked like he had a full moustache. Kantner also didn't like Casady's general attitude, or his playing style, at all -- though most critics since this point have pointed to Casady's bass playing as being the most interesting and distinctive thing about Jefferson Airplane's style. This lineup seems to have been the one that travelled to LA to audition for various record companies -- a move that immediately brought the group a certain amount of criticism for selling out, both for auditioning for record companies and for going to LA at all, two things that were already anathema on the San Francisco scene. The only audition anyone remembers them having specifically is one for Phil Spector, who according to Kaukonen was waving a gun around during the audition, so he and Casady walked out. Around this time as well, the group performed at an event billed as "A Tribute to Dr. Strange", organised by the radical hippie collective Family Dog. Marvel Comics, rather than being the multi-billion-dollar Disney-owned corporate juggernaut it is now, was regarded as a hip, almost underground, company -- and around this time they briefly started billing their comics not as comics but as "Marvel Pop Art Productions". The magical adventures of Dr. Strange, Master of the Mystic Arts, and in particular the art by far-right libertarian artist Steve Ditko, were regarded as clear parallels to both the occult dabblings and hallucinogen use popular among the hippies, though Ditko had no time for either, following as he did an extreme version of Ayn Rand's Objectivism. It was at the Tribute to Dr. Strange that Jefferson Airplane performed for the first time with a band named The Great Society, whose lead singer, Grace Slick, would later become very important in Jefferson Airplane's story: [Excerpt: The Great Society, "Someone to Love"] That gig was also the first one where the band and their friends noticed that large chunks of the audience were now dressing up in costumes that were reminiscent of the Old West. Up to this point, while Katz had been managing the group and paying them fifty dollars a week even on weeks when they didn't perform, he'd been doing so without a formal contract, in part because the group didn't trust him much. But now they were starting to get interest from record labels, and in particular RCA Records desperately wanted them. While RCA had been the label who had signed Elvis Presley, they had otherwise largely ignored rock and roll, considering that since they had the biggest rock star in the world they didn't need other ones, and concentrating largely on middle-of-the-road acts. But by the mid-sixties Elvis' star had faded somewhat, and they were desperate to get some of the action for the new music -- and unlike the other major American labels, they didn't have a reciprocal arrangement with a British label that allowed them to release anything by any of the new British stars. The group were introduced to RCA by Rod McKuen, a songwriter and poet who later became America's best-selling poet and wrote songs that sold over a hundred million copies. At this point McKuen was in his Jacques Brel phase, recording loose translations of the Belgian songwriter's songs with McKuen translating the lyrics: [Excerpt: Rod McKuen, "Seasons in the Sun"] McKuen thought that Jefferson Airplane might be a useful market for his own songs, and brought the group to RCA. RCA offered Jefferson Airplane twenty-five thousand dollars to sign with them, and Katz convinced the group that RCA wouldn't give them this money without them having signed a management contract with him. Kaukonen, Kantner, Spence, and Balin all signed without much hesitation, but Jack Casady didn't yet sign, as he was the new boy and nobody knew if he was going to be in the band for the long haul. The other person who refused to sign was Signe Anderson. In her case, she had a much better reason for refusing to sign, as unlike the rest of the band she had actually read the contract, and she found it to be extremely worrying. She did eventually back down on the day of the group's first recording session, but she later had the contract renegotiated. Jack Casady also signed the contract right at the start of the first session -- or at least, he thought he'd signed the contract then. He certainly signed *something*, without having read it. But much later, during a court case involving the band's longstanding legal disputes with Katz, it was revealed that the signature on the contract wasn't Casady's, and was badly forged. What he actually *did* sign that day has never been revealed, to him or to anyone else. Katz also signed all the group as songwriters to his own publishing company, telling them that they legally needed to sign with him if they wanted to make records, and also claimed to RCA that he had power of attorney for the band, which they say they never gave him -- though to be fair to Katz, given the band members' habit of signing things without reading or understanding them, it doesn't seem beyond the realms of possibility that they did. The producer chosen for the group's first album was Tommy Oliver, a friend of Katz's who had previously been an arranger on some of Doris Day's records, and whose next major act after finishing the Jefferson Airplane album was Trombones Unlimited, who released records like "Holiday for Trombones": [Excerpt: Trombones Unlimited, "Holiday For Trombones"] The group weren't particularly thrilled with this choice, but were happier with their engineer, Dave Hassinger, who had worked on records like "Satisfaction" by the Rolling Stones, and had a far better understanding of the kind of music the group were making. They spent about three months recording their first album, even while continually being attacked as sellouts. The album is not considered their best work, though it does contain "Blues From an Airplane", a collaboration between Spence and Balin: [Excerpt: Jefferson Airplane, "Blues From an Airplane"] Even before the album came out, though, things were starting to change for the group. Firstly, they started playing bigger venues -- their home base went from being the Matrix club to the Fillmore, a large auditorium run by the promoter Bill Graham. They also started to get an international reputation. The British singer-songwriter Donovan released a track called "The Fat Angel" which namechecked the group: [Excerpt: Donovan, "The Fat Angel"] The group also needed a new drummer. Skip Spence decided to go on holiday to Mexico without telling the rest of the band. There had already been some friction with Spence, as he was very eager to become a guitarist and songwriter, and the band already had three songwriting guitarists and didn't really see why they needed a fourth. They sacked Spence, who went on to form Moby Grape, who were also managed by Katz: [Excerpt: Moby Grape, "Omaha"] For his replacement they brought in Spencer Dryden, who was a Hollywood brat like their friend David Crosby -- in Dryden's case he was Charlie Chaplin's nephew, and his father worked as Chaplin's assistant. The story normally goes that the great session drummer Earl Palmer recommended Dryden to the group, but it's also the case that Dryden had been in a band, the Heartbeats, with Tommy Oliver and the great blues guitarist Roy Buchanan, so it may well be that Oliver had recommended him. Dryden had been primarily a jazz musician, playing with people like the West Coast jazz legend Charles Lloyd, though like most jazzers he would slum it on occasion by playing rock and roll music to pay the bills. But then he'd seen an early performance by the Mothers of Invention, and realised that rock music could have a serious artistic purpose too. He'd joined a band called The Ashes, who had released one single, the Jackie DeShannon song "Is There Anything I Can Do?" in December 1965: [Excerpt: The Ashes, "Is There Anything I Can Do?"] The Ashes split up once Dryden left the group to join Jefferson Airplane, but they soon reformed without him as The Peanut Butter Conspiracy, who hooked up with Gary Usher and released several albums of psychedelic sunshine pop. Dryden played his first gig with the group at a Republican Party event on June the sixth, 1966. But by the time Dryden had joined, other problems had become apparent. The group were already feeling like it had been a big mistake to accede to Katz's demands to sign a formal contract with him, and Balin in particular was getting annoyed that he wouldn't let the band see their finances. All the money was getting paid to Katz, who then doled out money to the band when they asked for it, and they had no idea if he was actually paying them what they were owed or not. The group's first album, Jefferson Airplane Takes Off, finally came out in September, and it was a comparative flop. It sold well in San Francisco itself, selling around ten thousand copies in the area, but sold basically nothing anywhere else in the country -- the group's local reputation hadn't extended outside their own immediate scene. It didn't help that the album was pulled and reissued, as RCA censored the initial version of the album because of objections to the lyrics. The song "Runnin' Round This World" was pulled off the album altogether for containing the word "trips", while in "Let Me In" they had to rerecord two lines -- “I gotta get in, you know where" was altered to "You shut the door now it ain't fair" and "Don't tell me you want money" became "Don't tell me it's so funny". Similarly in "Run Around" the phrase "as you lay under me" became "as you stay here by me". Things were also becoming difficult for Anderson. She had had a baby in May and was not only unhappy with having to tour while she had a small child, she was also the band member who was most vocally opposed to Katz. Added to that, her husband did not get on well at all with the group, and she felt trapped between her marriage and her bandmates. Reports differ as to whether she quit the band or was fired, but after a disastrous appearance at the Monterey Jazz Festival, one way or another she was out of the band. Her replacement was already waiting in the wings. Grace Slick, the lead singer of the Great Society, had been inspired by going to one of the early Jefferson Airplane gigs. She later said "I went to see Jefferson Airplane at the Matrix, and they were making more money in a day than I made in a week. They only worked for two or three hours a night, and they got to hang out. I thought 'This looks a lot better than what I'm doing.' I knew I could more or less carry a tune, and I figured if they could do it I could." She was married at the time to a film student named Jerry Slick, and indeed she had done the music for his final project at film school, a film called "Everybody Hits Their Brother Once", which sadly I can't find online. She was also having an affair with Jerry's brother Darby, though as the Slicks were in an open marriage this wasn't particularly untoward. The three of them, with a couple of other musicians, had formed The Great Society, named as a joke about President Johnson's programme of the same name. The Great Society was the name Johnson had given to his whole programme of domestic reforms, including civil rights for Black people, the creation of Medicare and Medicaid, the creation of the National Endowment for the Arts, and more. While those projects were broadly popular among the younger generation, Johnson's escalation of the war in Vietnam had made him so personally unpopular that even his progressive domestic programme was regarded with suspicion and contempt. The Great Society had set themselves up as local rivals to Jefferson Airplane -- where Jefferson Airplane had buttons saying "Jefferson Airplane Loves You!" the Great Society put out buttons saying "The Great Society Really Doesn't Like You Much At All". They signed to Autumn Records, and recorded a song that Darby Slick had written, titled "Someone to Love" -- though the song would later be retitled "Somebody to Love": [Excerpt: The Great Society, "Someone to Love"] That track was produced by Sly Stone, who at the time was working as a producer for Autumn Records. The Great Society, though, didn't like working with Stone, because he insisted on them doing forty-five takes to try to sound professional, as none of them were particularly competent musicians. Grace Slick later said "Sly could play any instrument known to man. He could have just made the record himself, except for the singers. It was kind of degrading in a way" -- and on another occasion she said that he *did* end up playing all the instruments on the finished record. "Someone to Love" was put out as a promo record, but never released to the general public, and nor were any of the Great Society's other recordings for Autumn Records released. Their contract expired and they were let go, at which point they were about to sign to Mercury Records, but then Darby Slick and another member decided to go off to India for a while. Grace's marriage to Jerry was falling apart, though they would stay legally married for several years, and the Great Society looked like it was at an end, so when Grace got the offer to join Jefferson Airplane to replace Signe Anderson, she jumped at the chance. At first, she was purely a harmony singer -- she didn't take over any of the lead vocal parts that Anderson had previously sung, as she had a very different vocal style, and instead she just sang the harmony parts that Anderson had sung on songs with other lead vocalists. But two months after the album they were back in the studio again, recording their second album, and Slick sang lead on several songs there. As well as the new lineup, there was another important change in the studio. They were still working with Dave Hassinger, but they had a new producer, Rick Jarrard. Jarrard was at one point a member of the folk group The Wellingtons, who did the theme tune for "Gilligan's Island", though I can't find anything to say whether or not he was in the group when they recorded that track: [Excerpt: The Wellingtons, "The Ballad of Gilligan's Island"] Jarrard had also been in the similar folk group The Greenwood County Singers, where as we heard in the episode on "Heroes and Villains" he replaced Van Dyke Parks. He'd also released a few singles under his own name, including a version of Parks' "High Coin": [Excerpt: Rick Jarrard, "High Coin"] While Jarrard had similar musical roots to those of Jefferson Airplane's members, and would go on to produce records by people like Harry Nilsson and The Family Tree, he wasn't any more liked by the band than their previous producer had been. So much so, that a few of the band members have claimed that while Jarrard is the credited producer, much of the work that one would normally expect to be done by a producer was actually done by their friend Jerry Garcia, who according to the band members gave them a lot of arranging and structural advice, and was present in the studio and played guitar on several tracks. Jarrard, on the other hand, said categorically "I never met Jerry Garcia. I produced that album from start to finish, never heard from Jerry Garcia, never talked to Jerry Garcia. He was not involved creatively on that album at all." According to the band, though, it was Garcia who had the idea of almost doubling the speed of the retitled "Somebody to Love", turning it into an uptempo rocker: [Excerpt: Jefferson Airplane, "Somebody to Love"] And one thing everyone is agreed on is that it was Garcia who came up with the album title, when after listening to some of the recordings he said "That's as surrealistic as a pillow!" It was while they were working on the album that was eventually titled Surrealistic Pillow that they finally broke with Katz as their manager, bringing Bill Thompson in as a temporary replacement. Or at least, it was then that they tried to break with Katz. Katz sued the group over their contract, and won. Then they appealed, and they won. Then Katz appealed the appeal, and the Superior Court insisted that if he wanted to appeal the ruling, he had to put up a bond for the fifty thousand dollars the group said he owed them. He didn't, so in 1970, four years after they sacked him as their manager, the appeal was dismissed. Katz appealed the dismissal, and won that appeal, and the case dragged on for another three years, at which point Katz dragged RCA Records into the lawsuit. As a result of being dragged into the mess, RCA decided to stop paying the group their songwriting royalties from record sales directly, and instead put the money into an escrow account. The claims and counterclaims and appeals *finally* ended in 1987, twenty years after the lawsuits had started and fourteen years after the band had stopped receiving their songwriting royalties. In the end, the group won on almost every point, and finally received one point three million dollars in back royalties and seven hundred thousand dollars in interest that had accrued, while Katz got a small token payment. Early in 1967, when the sessions for Surrealistic Pillow had finished, but before the album was released, Newsweek did a big story on the San Francisco scene, which drew national attention to the bands there, and the first big event of what would come to be called the hippie scene, the Human Be-In, happened in Golden Gate Park in January. As the group's audience was expanding rapidly, they asked Bill Graham to be their manager, as he was the most business-minded of the people around the group. The first single from the album, "My Best Friend", a song written by Skip Spence before he quit the band, came out in January 1967 and had no more success than their earlier recordings had, and didn't make the Hot 100. The album came out in February, and was still no higher than number 137 on the charts in March, when the second single, "Somebody to Love", was released: [Excerpt: Jefferson Airplane, "Somebody to Love"] That entered the charts at the start of April, and by June it had made number five. The single's success also pushed its parent album up to number three by August, just behind the Beatles' Sgt Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band and the Monkees' Headquarters. The success of the single also led to the group being asked to do commercials for Levis jeans: [Excerpt: Jefferson Airplane, "Levis commercial"] That once again got them accused of selling out. Abbie Hoffman, the leader of the Yippies, wrote to the Village Voice about the commercials, saying "It summarized for me all the doubts I have about the hippie philosophy. I realise they are just doing their 'thing', but while the Jefferson Airplane grooves with its thing, over 100 workers in the Levi Strauss plant on the Tennessee-Georgia border are doing their thing, which consists of being on strike to protest deplorable working conditions." The third single from the album, "White Rabbit", came out on the twenty-fourth of June, the day before the Beatles recorded "All You Need is Love", nine days after the release of "See Emily Play", and a week after the group played the Monterey Pop Festival, to give you some idea of how compressed a time period we've been in recently. We talked in the last episode about how there's a big difference between American and British psychedelia at this point in time, because the political nature of the American counterculture was determined by the fact that so many people were being sent off to die in Vietnam. Of all the San Francisco bands, though, Jefferson Airplane were by far the least political -- they were into the culture part of the counterculture, but would often and repeatedly disavow any deeper political meaning in their songs. In early 1968, for example, in a press conference, they said “Don't ask us anything about politics. We don't know anything about it. And what we did know, we just forgot.” So it's perhaps not surprising that of all the American groups, they were the one that was most similar to the British psychedelic groups in their influences, and in particular their frequent references to children's fantasy literature. "White Rabbit" was a perfect example of this. It had started out as "White Rabbit Blues", a song that Slick had written influenced by Alice in Wonderland, and originally performed by the Great Society: [Excerpt: The Great Society, "White Rabbit"] Slick explained the lyrics, and their association between childhood fantasy stories and drugs, later by saying "It's an interesting song but it didn't do what I wanted it to. What I was trying to say was that between the ages of zero and five the information and the input you get is almost indelible. In other words, once a Catholic, always a Catholic. And the parents read us these books, like Alice in Wonderland where she gets high, tall, and she takes mushrooms, a hookah, pills, alcohol. And then there's The Wizard of Oz, where they fall into a field of poppies and when they wake up they see Oz. And then there's Peter Pan, where if you sprinkle white dust on you, you could fly. And then you wonder why we do it? Well, what did you read to me?" While the lyrical inspiration for the track was from Alice in Wonderland, the musical inspiration is less obvious. Slick has on multiple occasions said that the idea for the music came from listening to Miles Davis' album "Sketches of Spain", and in particular to Davis' version of -- and I apologise for almost certainly mangling the Spanish pronunciation badly here -- "Concierto de Aranjuez", though I see little musical resemblance to it myself. [Excerpt: Miles Davis, "Concierto de Aranjuez"] She has also, though, talked about how the song was influenced by Ravel's "Bolero", and in particular the way the piece keeps building in intensity, starting softly and slowly building up, rather than having the dynamic peaks and troughs of most music. And that is definitely a connection I can hear in the music: [Excerpt: Ravel, "Bolero"] Jefferson Airplane's version of "White Rabbit", like their version of "Somebody to Love", was far more professional, far -- and apologies for the pun -- slicker than The Great Society's version. It's also much shorter. The version by The Great Society has a four and a half minute instrumental intro before Slick's vocal enters. By contrast, the version on Surrealistic Pillow comes in at under two and a half minutes in total, and is a tight pop song: [Excerpt: Jefferson Airplane, "White Rabbit"] Jack Casady has more recently said that the group originally recorded the song more or less as a lark, because they assumed that all the drug references would mean that RCA would make them remove the song from the album -- after all, they'd cut a song from the earlier album because it had a reference to a trip, so how could they possibly allow a song like "White Rabbit" with its lyrics about pills and mushrooms? But it was left on the album, and ended up making the top ten on the pop charts, peaking at number eight: [Excerpt: Jefferson Airplane, "White Rabbit"] In an interview last year, Slick said she still largely lives off the royalties from writing that one song. It would be the last hit single Jefferson Airplane would ever have. Marty Balin later said "Fame changes your life. It's a bit like prison. It ruined the band. Everybody became rich and selfish and self-centred and couldn't care about the band. That was pretty much the end of it all. After that it was just working and living the high life and watching the band destroy itself, living on its laurels." They started work on their third album, After Bathing at Baxter's, in May 1967, while "Somebody to Love" was still climbing the charts. This time, the album was produced by Al Schmitt. Unlike the two previous producers, Schmitt was a fan of the band, and decided the best thing to do was to just let them do their own thing without interfering. The album took months to record, rather than the weeks that Surrealistic Pillow had taken, and cost almost ten times as much money to record. In part the time it took was because of the promotional work the band had to do. Bill Graham was sending them all over the country to perform, which they didn't appreciate. The group complained to Graham in business meetings, saying they wanted to only play in big cities where there were lots of hippies. Graham pointed out in turn that if they wanted to keep having any kind of success, they needed to play places other than San Francisco, LA, New York, and Chicago, because in fact most of the population of the US didn't live in those four cities. They grudgingly took his point. But there were other arguments all the time as well. They argued about whether Graham should be taking his cut from the net or the gross. They argued about Graham trying to push for the next single to be another Grace Slick lead vocal -- they felt like he was trying to make them into just Grace Slick's backing band, while he thought it made sense to follow up two big hits with more singles with the same vocalist. There was also a lawsuit from Balin's former partners in the Matrix, who remembered that bit in the contract about having a share in the group's income and sued for six hundred thousand dollars -- that was settled out of court three years later. And there were interpersonal squabbles too. Some of these were about the music -- Dryden didn't like the fact that Kaukonen's guitar solos were getting longer and longer, and Balin only contributed one song to the new album because all the other band members made fun of him for writing short, poppy, love songs rather than extended psychedelic jams -- but also the group had become basically two rival factions. On one side were Kaukonen and Casady, the old friends and virtuoso instrumentalists, who wanted to extend the instrumental sections of the songs more to show off their playing. On the other side were Grace Slick and Spencer Dryden, the two oldest members of the group by age, but the most recent people to join. They were also unusual in the San Francisco scene for having alcohol as their drug of choice -- drinking was thought of by most of the hippies as being a bit classless, but they were both alcoholics. They were also sleeping together, and generally on the side of shorter, less exploratory, songs. Kantner, who was attracted to Slick, usually ended up siding with her and Dryden, and this left Balin the odd man out in the middle. He later said "I got disgusted with all the ego trips, and the band was so stoned that I couldn't even talk to them. Everybody was in their little shell". While they were still working on the album, they released the first single from it, Kantner's "The Ballad of You and Me and Pooneil". The "Pooneil" in the song was a figure that combined two of Kantner's influences: the Greenwich Village singer-songwriter Fred Neil, the writer of "Everybody's Talkin'" and "Dolphins"; and Winnie the Pooh. The song contained several lines taken from A.A. Milne's children's stories: [Excerpt: Jefferson Airplane, "The Ballad of You and Me and Pooneil"] That only made number forty-two on the charts. It was the last Jefferson Airplane single to make the top fifty. At a gig in Bakersfield they got arrested for inciting a riot, because they encouraged the crowd to dance, even though local by-laws said that nobody under sixteen was allowed to dance, and then they nearly got arrested again after Kantner's behaviour on the private plane they'd chartered to get them back to San Francisco that night. Kantner had been chain-smoking, and this annoyed the pilot, who asked Kantner to put his cigarette out, so Kantner opened the door of the plane mid-flight and threw the lit cigarette out. They'd chartered that plane because they wanted to make sure they got to see a new group, Cream, who were playing the Fillmore: [Excerpt: Cream, "Strange Brew"] After seeing that, the divisions in the band were even wider -- Kaukonen and Casady now *knew* that what the band needed was to do long, extended, instrumental jams. Cream were the future, two-minute pop songs were the past. Though they weren't completely averse to two-minute pop songs. The group were recording at RCA studios at the same time as the Monkees, and members of the two groups would often jam together. The idea of selling out might have been anathema to their *audience*, but the band members themselves didn't care about things like that. Indeed, at one point the group returned from a gig to the mansion they were renting and found squatters had moved in and were using their private pool -- so they shot at the water. The squatters quickly moved on. As Dryden put it "We all -- Paul, Jorma, Grace, and myself -- had guns. We weren't hippies. Hippies were the people that lived on the streets down in Haight-Ashbury. We were basically musicians and art school kids. We were into guns and machinery" After Bathing at Baxter's only went to number seventeen on the charts, not a bad position but a flop compared to their previous album, and Bill Graham in particular took this as more proof that he had been right when for the last few months he'd been attacking the group as self-indulgent. Eventually, Slick and Dryden decided that either Bill Graham was going as their manager, or they were going. Slick even went so far as to try to negotiate a solo deal with Elektra Records -- as the voice on the hits, everyone was telling her she was the only one who mattered anyway. David Anderle, who was working for the label, agreed a deal with her, but Jac Holzman refused to authorise the deal, saying "Judy Collins doesn't get that much money, why should Grace Slick?" The group did fire Graham, and went one further and tried to become his competitors. They teamed up with the Grateful Dead to open a new venue, the Carousel Ballroom, to compete with the Fillmore, but after a few months they realised they were no good at running a venue and sold it to Graham. Graham, who was apparently unhappy with the fact that the people living around the Fillmore were largely Black given that the bands he booked appealed to mostly white audiences, closed the original Fillmore, renamed the Carousel the Fillmore West, and opened up a second venue in New York, the Fillmore East. The divisions in the band were getting worse -- Kaukonen and Casady were taking more and more speed, which was making them play longer and faster instrumental solos whether or not the rest of the band wanted them to, and Dryden, whose hands often bled from trying to play along with them, definitely did not want them to. But the group soldiered on and recorded their fourth album, Crown of Creation. This album contained several songs that were influenced by science fiction novels. The most famous of these was inspired by the right-libertarian author Robert Heinlein, who was hugely influential on the counterculture. Jefferson Airplane's friends the Monkees had already recorded a song based on Heinlein's The Door Into Summer, an unintentionally disturbing novel about a thirty-year-old man who falls in love with a twelve-year-old girl, and who uses a combination of time travel and cryogenic freezing to make their ages closer together so he can marry her: [Excerpt: The Monkees, "The Door Into Summer"] Now Jefferson Airplane were recording a song based on Heinlein's most famous novel, Stranger in a Strange Land. Stranger in a Strange Land has dated badly, thanks to its casual homophobia and rape-apologia, but at the time it was hugely popular in hippie circles for its advocacy of free love and group marriages -- so popular that a religion, the Church of All Worlds, based itself on the book. David Crosby had taken inspiration from it and written "Triad", a song asking two women if they'll enter into a polygamous relationship with him, and recorded it with the Byrds: [Excerpt: The Byrds, "Triad"] But the other members of the Byrds disliked the song, and it was left unreleased for decades. As Crosby was friendly with Jefferson Airplane, and as members of the band were themselves advocates of open relationships, they recorded their own version with Slick singing lead: [Excerpt: Jefferson Airplane, "Triad"] The other song on the album influenced by science fiction was the title track, Paul Kantner's "Crown of Creation". This song was inspired by The Chrysalids, a novel by the British writer John Wyndham. The Chrysalids is one of Wyndham's most influential novels, a post-apocalyptic story about young children who are born with mutant superpowers and have to hide them from their parents as they will be killed if they're discovered. The novel is often thought to have inspired Marvel Comics' X-Men, and while there's an unpleasant eugenic taste to its ending, with the idea that two species can't survive in the same ecological niche and the younger, "superior", species must outcompete the old, that idea also had a lot of influence in the counterculture, as well as being a popular one in science fiction. Kantner's song took whole lines from The Chrysalids, much as he had earlier done with A.A. Milne: [Excerpt: Jefferson Airplane, "Crown of Creation"] The Crown of Creation album was in some ways a return to the more focused songwriting of Surrealistic Pillow, although the sessions weren't without their experiments. Slick and Dryden collaborated with Frank Zappa and members of the Mothers of Invention on an avant-garde track called "Would You Like a Snack?" (not the same song as the later Zappa song of the same name) which was intended for the album, though went unreleased until a CD box set decades later: [Excerpt: Grace Slick and Frank Zappa, "Would You Like a Snack?"] But the finished album was generally considered less self-indulgent than After Bathing at Baxter's, and did better on the charts as a result. It reached number six, becoming their second and last top ten album, helped by the group's appearance on the Ed Sullivan Show in September 1968, a month after it came out. That appearance was actually organised by Colonel Tom Parker, who suggested them to Sullivan as a favour to RCA Records. But another TV appearance at the time was less successful. They appeared on the Smothers Brothers Comedy Hour, one of the most popular TV shows among the young, hip, audience that the group needed to appeal to, but Slick appeared in blackface. She's later said that there was no political intent behind this, and that she was just trying the different makeup she found in the dressing room as a purely aesthetic thing, but that doesn't really explain the Black power salute she gives at one point. Slick was increasingly obnoxious on stage, as her drinking was getting worse and her relationship with Dryden was starting to break down. Just before the Smothers Brothers appearance she was accused at a benefit for the Whitney Museum of having called the audience "filthy Jews", though she has always said that what she actually said was "filthy jewels", and she was talking about the ostentatious jewellery some of the audience were wearing. The group struggled through a performance at Altamont -- an event we will talk about in a future episode, so I won't go into it here, except to say that it was a horrifying experience for everyone involved -- and performed at Woodstock, before releasing their fifth studio album, Volunteers, in 1969: [Excerpt: Jefferson Airplane, "Volunteers"] That album made the top twenty, but was the last album by the classic lineup of the band. By this point Spencer Dryden and Grace Slick had broken up, with Slick starting to date Kantner, and Dryden was also disappointed at the group's musical direction, and left. Balin also left, feeling sidelined in the group. They released several more albums with varying lineups, including at various points their old friend David Frieberg of Quicksilver Messenger Service, the violinist Papa John Creach, and the former drummer of the Turtles, Johnny Barbata. But as of 1970 the group's members had already started working on two side projects -- an acoustic band called Hot Tuna, led by Kaukonen and Casady, which sometimes also featured Balin, and a project called Paul Kantner's Jefferson Starship, which also featured Slick and had recorded an album, Blows Against the Empire, the second side of which was based on the Robert Heinlein novel Back to Methuselah, and which became one of the first albums ever nominated for science fiction's Hugo Awards: [Excerpt: Jefferson Starship, "Have You Seen The Stars Tonite"] That album featured contributions from David Crosby and members of the Grateful Dead, as well as Casady on two tracks, but  in 1974 when Kaukonen and Casady quit Jefferson Airplane to make Hot Tuna their full-time band, Kantner, Slick, and Frieberg turned Jefferson Starship into a full band. Over the next decade, Jefferson Starship had a lot of moderate-sized hits, with a varying lineup that at one time or another saw several members, including Slick, go and return, and saw Marty Balin back with them for a while. In 1984, Kantner left the group, and sued them to stop them using the Jefferson Starship name. A settlement was reached in which none of Kantner, Slick, Kaukonen, or Casady could use the words "Jefferson" or "Airplane" in their band-names without the permission of all the others, and the remaining members of Jefferson Starship renamed their band just Starship -- and had three number one singles in the late eighties with Slick on lead, becoming far more commercially successful than their precursor bands had ever been: [Excerpt: Starship, "We Built This City on Rock & Roll"] Slick left Starship in 1989, and there was a brief Jefferson Airplane reunion tour, with all the classic members but Dryden, but then Slick decided that she was getting too old to perform rock and roll music, and decided to retire from music and become a painter, something she's stuck to for more than thirty years. Kantner and Balin formed a new Jefferson Starship, called Jefferson Starship: The Next Generation, but Kantner died in January 2016, coincidentally on the same day as Signe Anderson, who had occasionally guested with her old bandmates in the new version of the band. Balin, who had quit the reunited Jefferson Starship due to health reasons, died two years later. Dryden had died in 2005. Currently, there are three bands touring that descend directly from Jefferson Airplane. Hot Tuna still continue to perform, there's a version of Starship that tours featuring one original member, Mickey Thomas, and the reunited Jefferson Starship still tour, led by David Frieberg. Grace Slick has given the latter group her blessing, and even co-wrote one song on their most recent album, released in 2020, though she still doesn't perform any more. Jefferson Airplane's period in the commercial spotlight was brief -- they had charting singles for only a matter of months, and while they had top twenty albums for a few years after their peak, they really only mattered to the wider world during that brief period of the Summer of Love. But precisely because their period of success was so short, their music is indelibly associated with that time. To this day there's nothing as evocative of summer 1967 as "White Rabbit", even for those of us who weren't born then. And while Grace Slick had her problems, as I've made very clear in this episode, she inspired a whole generation of women who went on to be singers themselves, as one of the first prominent women to sing lead with an electric rock band. And when she got tired of doing that, she stopped, and got on with her other artistic pursuits, without feeling the need to go back and revisit the past for ever diminishing returns. One might only wish that some of her male peers had followed her example.

america tv love music american new york history black church children chicago hollywood disney master apple uk rock washington mexico british san francisco west holiday washington dc arizona ohio spanish arts alabama spain tennessee detroit revolution strange north record fame island heroes jews nazis empire rev stone vietnam matrix ocean tribute southern california catholic beatles mothers cd crown cia philippines rolling stones west coast thompson oz elvis wizard finland rock and roll xmen pakistan bay area volunteers parks villains snacks garcia dolphins reports ashes turtles nest lives bob dylan purple big brother bands medicare san jose airplanes northern americana invention woodstock omaha lsd cream satisfaction ballad elvis presley pink floyd belgians newsweek republican party dino added californians marvel comics peter pan medicaid other side state department katz antioch grateful dead chronicle baxter alice in wonderland rock and roll hall of fame miles davis peace corps spence lovin family tree triumphs carousel buchanan mixcloud charlie chaplin tilt san francisco chronicle sly would you like frank zappa santa clara kt national endowment starship janis joplin headquarters ayn rand schmitt chaplin hippies slick monkees steely dan concierto bakersfield triad old west garfunkel rock music rca elektra runnin sketches buddy holly milne greenwich village white rabbit phil spector village voice get together haskell zappa byrds ravel spoonful levis jerry garcia heartbeats david crosby doris day jefferson airplane stranger in a strange land fillmore brian jones glen campbell george bernard shaw steve ditko bolero my best friend wyndham levi strauss all you need lonely hearts club band whitney museum superior court harry nilsson methuselah jacques brel judy collins sgt pepper ed sullivan show heinlein dryden tom wolfe buffalo springfield weavers bessie smith great society rca records robert heinlein objectivism altamont jefferson starship ken kesey run around bob weir this life john phillips acid tests holding company golden gate park sly stone aranjuez ricky nelson bill graham haight ashbury elektra records grace slick san franciscan ditko bluesman carter family john sebastian tennessee georgia family dog colonel tom parker abbie hoffman bill thompson mercury records town criers roger mcguinn balin tommy oliver charles lloyd jorma fillmore east smothers brothers rickenbacker merry pranksters van dyke parks gary davis one flew over the cuckoo mystic arts hot tuna john wyndham monterey pop festival milt jackson jorma kaukonen antioch college jackie deshannon we built this city dave van ronk mothers of invention echoplex cass elliot monterey jazz festival yippies fillmore west mickey thomas slicks moby grape roy buchanan ian buchanan wellingtons jimmy brown jack nitzsche quicksilver messenger service paul kantner kesey al schmitt marty balin fred neil kantner casady surrealistic pillow all worlds jack casady blues project bob harvey bobby gentry skip spence john hammond jr billy roberts jac holzman papa john creach tilt araiza
Das Wichtigste heute Morgen - Deutschlandfunk
Das Wichtigste heute Morgen

Das Wichtigste heute Morgen - Deutschlandfunk

Play Episode Listen Later Nov 23, 2022 4:47


Heinlein, Stefanwww.deutschlandfunk.de, Informationen am MorgenDirekter Link zur Audiodatei

Interviews - Deutschlandfunk
Russland-Experte Dubowy - "In den kommenden Wochen öffnet sich ein Fenster für Verhandlungen"

Interviews - Deutschlandfunk

Play Episode Listen Later Nov 23, 2022 10:09


Der Russlandexperte Alexander Dubowy von der Uni Wien geht davon aus, dass die Kampfintensität in der Ukraine in nächster Zeit abnehmen wird. Mit "Intensivoperationen" sei erst wieder gegen Ende des Winters zu rechnen. Das ermögliche Verhandlungen.Heinlein, Stefanwww.deutschlandfunk.de, InterviewsDirekter Link zur Audiodatei

Interviews - Deutschlandfunk
Bürgergeld-Kompromiss - Frei (CDU): "Sanktionen sind ein Hebel, der am Ende erfolgreich ist"

Interviews - Deutschlandfunk

Play Episode Listen Later Nov 23, 2022 10:27


Beim Kompromiss zum Bürgergeld hat die Union unter anderem schärfere Sanktionsmöglichkeiten gegen Leistungsbeziehende durchgesetzt. Das sei keine soziale Kälte, sagte Thorsten Frei (CDU). Es gehe darum, Menschen schnell in Arbeit zurückzuhelfen.Heinlein, Stefanwww.deutschlandfunk.de, InterviewsDirekter Link zur Audiodatei

Classic Radio Theater
Dimension X Ep. #94

Classic Radio Theater

Play Episode Listen Later Nov 17, 2022 62:55 Transcription Available


Enjoy two free sci-fi episodes of Dimension X A) 4/15/50 With Folded Hands w/ Peter Capell B) 5/6/50 Knock w/ Arnold Moss Hosted by Norman Rose, Dimension X was one of radio's first adult science-fiction series and made its mark by adapting short stories by acknowledged masters in the field, including Isaac Asimov, Robert Bloch, Ray Bradbury, Fredric Brown, Robert. A. Heinlein, Clifford D. Simak, Kurt Vonnegut, Jr. and William Tenn. Scriptwriters, Ernest Kinoy and George Lefferts, who also contributed their own original material, adapted the stories. At the start of every broadcast, host Norman Rose promised us Adventures in time and space, told in future tense! You knew you were about to be transported from your everyday existence to somewhere completely different -- maybe even a distant planet. Radio was a fertile medium for science fiction. It was easy to visit other planets, interact with aliens or fly in a rocket ship simply by using your imagination. Dimension X debuted over NBC on April 8, 1950 accumulated some 50 episodes with its final broadcast on September 29, 1951. There was a five-month hiatus during the winter and spring of 1951.

Das war der Tag (komplette Sendung) - Deutschlandfunk
Das war der Tag, 14.11.2022, komplette Sendung

Das war der Tag (komplette Sendung) - Deutschlandfunk

Play Episode Listen Later Nov 14, 2022 46:55


Heinlein, Stefanwww.deutschlandfunk.de, Das war der TagDirekter Link zur Audiodatei

Interviews - Deutschlandfunk
Umstrittene Klimaproteste - Thüringens Innenminister Maier (SPD) gegen Gesetzesverschärfung

Interviews - Deutschlandfunk

Play Episode Listen Later Nov 7, 2022 10:02


Es gebe genügende Straftatbestände, die auf die Klimaproteste der "Letzten Generation", wie etwa die Straßenblockaden, angewendet werden könnten, sagte Thüringens Innenminister Georg Maier (SPD) im Dlf. Zudem sehe er keine Gefährdung der Demokratie.Heinlein, Stefanwww.deutschlandfunk.de, InterviewsDirekter Link zur Audiodatei

Interviews - Deutschlandfunk
Vor den US-Kongresswahlen - Transatlantikkoordinator Link beklagt extreme Polarisierung in den USA

Interviews - Deutschlandfunk

Play Episode Listen Later Nov 7, 2022 9:47


Vor den US-Midterms sei die politische Stimmung in der Gesellschaft so polarisiert, dass der Riss häufig sogar durch Familien ginge, so Michael Link (FDP). Paradoxerweise traue sich in republikanischen Kreisen niemand Donald Trump offen anzugreifen.Heinlein, Stefanwww.deutschlandfunk.de, InterviewsDirekter Link zur Audiodatei

Lore & Valor
Robert A. Heinlein's The Past Through Tomorrow: Life-Line

Lore & Valor

Play Episode Listen Later Oct 26, 2022 11:10


Picked up The Past Through Tomorrow for the first time in a while and found I still love these stories. The first story in this anthology is Life-Line, Heinlein's first published work, which makes it a landmark in science fiction history by default. Come join the discussion on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/groups/5830648613635275 My work is here: https://www.justinwatsonbooks.com/ #authortube #robertaheinlein #sciencefiction #goldenageofsciencefiction #heinlienreviews #booktube #sciencefictionreviews #sciencefictionbooks #classicsciencefiction

Unstoppable Mindset
Episode 61 – Unstoppable Polymath with Pat Daily

Unstoppable Mindset

Play Episode Listen Later Sep 27, 2022 65:24


So what is a “polymath”? Come on in and listen to this week's episode to find out from our guest, Pat Daily. After hearing my conversation with Pat, not only will you know the definition of the word, but you will see why Pat fits the Polymath mold.   In his life, Pat has served as a pilot in the military, a pilot for a commercial airline, a successful employee at Honeywell, participated in starting a company and he is now even a successful science fiction author.   I very much enjoyed reminiscing with Pat about some of my and his early days around aircraft as we both have similar experiences in a lot of ways.   By any standard you can invoke, Pat is not only inspirational, but he also is easy to talk with and he is easy on the ears as well. I hope you like this episode and that you will please reach out and tell me what you think. As always, please feel free to email me at michaelhi@accessibe.com. Also, I hope you will give this episode a 5 rating after hearing it. Thanks for listening.   About the Guest:   Pat Daily is a polymath, serial entrepreneur, gamer, and the author of SPARK, a near future science fiction novel. Pat began his professional career as an engineer and Air Force test pilot. After leaving the military, Pat worked at NASA's Johnson Space Center on both the Space Shuttle and International Space Station programs before launching his first company. He has worked globally as a human performance and safety consultant.     When not writing or trying to bring new airplane designs to life, Pat can be found gaming. He is a fan of role-playing games – particularly open worlds with engaging storylines where actions have consequences. Pat and his wife live in Houston.   Social media links:   Website: https://thepatdaily.com Blog: https://feraldaughters.wordpress.com Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/patdailyauthor Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/patdailypics/ Twitter: @patdailyauthor Goodreads: https://www.goodreads.com/author/show/21521042.Pat_Daily   About the Host: Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog.   Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is an Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards.   https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/   accessiBe Links https://accessibe.com/ https://www.youtube.com/c/accessiBe https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/ https://www.facebook.com/accessibe/       Thanks for listening! Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below!   Subscribe to the podcast If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can also subscribe in your favorite podcast app.   Leave us an Apple Podcasts review Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts.     Transcription Notes* Michael Hingson  00:00 Access Cast and accessiBe Initiative presents Unstoppable Mindset. The podcast where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. Hi, I'm Michael Hingson, Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe and the author of the number one New York Times bestselling book, Thunder dog, the story of a blind man, his guide dog and the triumph of trust. Thanks for joining me on my podcast as we explore our own blinding fears of inclusion unacceptance and our resistance to change. We will discover the idea that no matter the situation, or the people we encounter, our own fears, and prejudices often are our strongest barriers to moving forward. The unstoppable mindset podcast is sponsored by accessiBe, that's a c c e s s i  capital B e. Visit www.accessibe.com to learn how you can make your website accessible for persons with disabilities. And to help make the internet fully inclusive by the year 2025. Glad you dropped by we're happy to meet you and to have you here with us.   Michael Hingson  01:20 Hi, wherever you happen to be, and welcome to another edition of unstoppable mindset. Today, we get to chat with Pat Daily, who describes himself as a polymath. He is also an author, and entrepreneur. And specifically, he's the author of a book called spark. And we're gonna get into that, but I'm gonna start with tell me what is a polymath? Because some people won't quite probably know that.   Pat Daily  01:47 That's a good question, Mike. And I appreciate the opportunity to be here and talk about that. The I fell in love with this word when I discovered it just a couple of years ago. And really all it is is somebody that's polymath is someone who's had professional success in different lines. So not all sales, not all leadership, not all engineering. Cool.   Michael Hingson  02:15 So where have you had success? Well, I've   Pat Daily  02:18 been an Air Force Test Pilot. I've been an engineer at NASA. I've started my own business. I've been a safety consultant. I've been   Michael Hingson  02:30 now an author. There you go. Well, tell us a little bit about you maybe growing up just to learn about you and your background and stuff. And we'll go from there.   Pat Daily  02:38 Sure, sure. I grew up in Seattle, Washington up in the rainy northwest corner of the country. From there, I graduate from high school, went into the Air Force Academy, graduated from there and started pilot training in the Air Force flew was a pilot in the Air Force for about 13 years and then decided that my, my life lay in commercial aviation. And so I went to went to work for American Airlines. And they agreed with me up until about the one year point, and then they decided that they had too many pilots and furloughed, me. And at that point, I thought, maybe I need to rethink this, this whole pilot as a career thing. So I went off and did some other things.   Michael Hingson  03:29 So you when you went to the Air Force Academy, did you miss Pike's fish market?   Pat Daily  03:38 Yeah, yeah, I actually worked there a little bit when I was in high school at a restaurant whose name I can't even remember right now. But But yeah, that's a place that's got a lot of interesting energy.   Michael Hingson  03:51 It does. I've been there just once. And I know someone who worked there in in one of the places in the market, but it does have a lot of interesting and somewhat unusual energy.   Pat Daily  04:04 That's certainly true. So   Michael Hingson  04:07 you, you worked for American, why did you go off and do after American?   Pat Daily  04:11 Well, after American, I went to work for Honeywell and ended up working for Honeywell, Defense and Space electronic systems. And we did guidance, navigation control stuff for the space station and the space shuttle down at Johnson Space.   Michael Hingson  04:30 So what what did you do there? Can   Pat Daily  04:31 you talk a bunch about it? Oh, yeah. And then there's, we didn't do anything classified there. I mean, the whole human space thing, at least as far as NASA is concerned, is pretty much an open book. The probably my favorite project that I worked on was a thing that was supposed to be a lifeboat for the space station and it was the x 38 project. And it was kind of a lifting body. So it had some have swept back and swept up wings that that became well we ended up calling a rudder Vader because it was a combination of an elevator and rudder, although it was way more rudder than it was elevator. And, and it was a lot of fun. Got to actually watch it do a few drop tests from NASA aircraft. And then of course, somewhere along the way, it was decided that we were going to use Sputnik capsules and Soyuz capsules to to get us back from orbit so we no longer pursue that project. So it was a sad day when they shut that down but still a lot of fun to work on.   Michael Hingson  05:43 I grew up and near Edwards Air Force Base. So my father worked out there as the supervisor, the head of the precision measurements equipment lab, so he was in charge of calibrating all test equipment and things like that. So worked with Joe Walker, of course, who was famous with the x 15. Going back a long way from the x 38. And, and was there actually at the time of the m two lifting body which was kind of probably the precursor of all of that   Pat Daily  06:10 down. Were bounced because I spent a bunch of years at Edwards. Whereabouts Did you live?   Michael Hingson  06:15 We lived in Palmdale. Okay, and one of my favorite memories, boy I don't know about today, but was when my dad would come home from work and tell us that he left our street, which was Stan rich Avenue in Palmdale, California, and drove all the way to Edwards without stopping once, which was, which was definitely amazing back in those days, just in terms of no traffic, no cars to interfere. And he oftentimes did it both ways. And in the evening, when he was coming home, I would talk with him, we both got our ham radio licenses. When I was 14, he waited for me because he could have gotten at any time. And we would chat as he was coming home from work and had a lot of fun just talking up on the two meter band a lot. And he would just keep going and going and never stop until we got to our street and there was stop signs. So we had to stop.   Pat Daily  07:09 That is really neat. That was a great memory to have your dad.   Michael Hingson  07:13 It was and you know, there were a lot of things that happen that he couldn't talk about a couple times we went out and visited him. And we would go to his lab and he said, Well, I can't let you in quite yet. We have to hide things that you can't see. Well, that really didn't matter to me a whole lot. But I guess my mom and my brother were there. So they had to do that. But it was it was fascinating going there. And he introduced me to Joe Walker. He knew Neil Armstrong, but I never got to meet Neil. But did spend some time with Joe Walker, which was a lot of fun. Of course. Yeah. He was one of the first real astronauts taking the x 15, up above 50 miles. What an airplane that was oh, and we actually would occasionally sit on our roof at home. And watch as the B 52. Took it up and dropped it. And they they didn't have anything on the radio that we could listen to. But he would he told us where to look. And so we actually looked and and watched it drop and then fly and do the things that it did. It was pretty fascinating.   Pat Daily  08:17 Could you hear the sonic booms? down upon do?   Michael Hingson  08:19 That is a really good question that I'm glad you asked when we first moved to Palmdale in 1955. We heard sonic booms all the time. Never thought about it didn't bother us that they were there. And I remember once we knew that we're going to be playing war games between us and a couple of the other bases in Southern California. And the way you scored, especially when they did it at night was to see how close you could get to the other bases General's house without being detected. And break a sonic boom. So I gather we at Edwards were pretty successful at getting getting close to the generals house. But yeah, we heard a lot of sonic booms. And then one day, they just weren't there anymore.   Pat Daily  09:06 Yeah, I wasn't there during that. That era. But but when I was we had a we had a corridor, we actually had a low altitude and a high altitude supersonic corridor. And that's where if we were going to intentionally go supersonic, that's where they wanted us to be. And that ran mostly east west. Yeah. So so that Sonic Boom would have had to propagate quite a ways for folks down in Palmdale to hear it. But yeah, don't ever do. We heard them all the time.   Michael Hingson  09:39 Well, yeah. And I would I would expect that. And the reason that they disappeared from us was because I guess too many people started complaining but you know, GE, it never bothered me. I guess, however, that they decided that they could be somewhat destructive, especially if they were close enough or loud enough to buildings and so on. So they had to do it. And then I didn't hear any until actually, we were down near Cape Kennedy once when the shuttle was coming back in for a landing, and we got to hear the sonic booms, which was fun to hear.   Pat Daily  10:15 Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I've   Michael Hingson  10:16 heard them loud enough to be startling. But the ones like the shuttle threw off. It was always like, Ah, good. They're home. Boom, boom, the double sonic boom, yeah, which was great. We were at a number of Armed Forces Day, events doubted it out at Edwards. And it was really fun when the Thunderbirds were there. Other people were flying the jets, and they would come almost right down on the deck, past us. And we were we were all together. So my dad said, well, here they are. And I said, I don't hear anything all of a sudden boom, and you hear the whole sound, because they had already gotten faster than the speed of sound. So the plane was there about two seconds before the sound of the engine, which was kind of fascinating. Yep. But we, we enjoyed it. And it was part of growing up. Never thought about it. And then all of a sudden, one day, I haven't heard sonic booms in quite a while. And it was I know, because people were complaining about the noise. Oh, what a world war two world. You know, the sonic booms were there before they were but nevertheless, as I said, probably there were some complaints about the noise. And I've read in recent articles that they they did decide that some of the the sonic booms could be destructive to structure. So   Pat Daily  11:35 I know they've they've broken windows before. And I know that sometimes livestock react poorly. And now NASA and industry are working on a thing called Quiet spike, which was programmed to reduce the the intensity of the sonic boom, so that an airliner for example, that would be traveling supersonic. To hear them Passover would be no more loud than the sound of a car door closing.   Michael Hingson  12:05 Right? There was I think something on 60 minutes about that either earlier this year, or late last year, which is where I first heard about it. So far. I guess it's still somewhat theory, because they haven't built the airliner yet that they believe will be able to have that low level of noise. But it'll be pretty fascinating if they can make that happen.   Pat Daily  12:26 It will be because it it seems like we've been stuck, essentially traveling around the world at about point eight Mach. Yeah, for for 50 years, and forever, longer now forever.   Michael Hingson  12:38 And it will be I think it will be great if we can really do that. And also have it on an aircraft that's small enough that we could even do supersonic inside the United States that will speed up a lot of air travel.   Pat Daily  12:52 It will. It will no it'd be wonderful.   Michael Hingson  12:54 But if I recall, right, they said they were going to have the first generation of that aircraft sometime later this year. Do you know anything about that? I know they've got the   Pat Daily  13:03 flying testbeds already. In fact, one of them is flying out of Palmdale.   Michael Hingson  13:08 Oh, okay. Well, we are now living in Victorville, so maybe we'll hear it on Victorville.   Pat Daily  13:15 I used to live in Victorville when I was able to George Air Force Base.   Michael Hingson  13:19 There you go well, and when I was growing up, compared to Palmdale Victorville was hardly a blip on the radar scope. And now, we have over 120,000 people in Victorville. And in the whole Victor Valley area here we have over 600,000 People go the heck and figure it out.   Pat Daily  13:37 I had no idea that it had grown that much.   Michael Hingson  13:39 And continues to we just learned that there is a new housing development, about two miles from here that will have 15,000 new homes, low cost housing, but still 15,000 new homes. Oh, my gosh, I know, go figure. Now. It'll be interesting to see how more how many more come along, but they're building a lot of stuff up here. And at the same time we see open stores that is vacant stores that don't understand why they're doing the building that they're doing when they got all this vacancy. And where are those people going to work? Are they are they commuting down into the LA basin? I work? Yes, that's I guess that's what's happening. And there is of course, a lot of that but I hope that they come up with something other than just going down I 15 Because already the traffic on Interstate 15 going from Victorville down through Cajon Pass and down the other side is horrible. Almost 24 hours a day. I've gone to Ontario airport early in the morning like at four and still take an hour and 20 or minutes or an hour and a half or longer to get to Ontario.   Pat Daily  14:52 And Ontario has got to be getting busier and busier too because I remember that that was when I first moved out to that area. It was the like the secret gym that the airport nobody knew about and had very little traffic and and you didn't have any jet bridges you just walked walked out to the aircraft and up the stairs. But still it was so much easier to navigate than lax,   Michael Hingson  15:18 sort of like Burbank airport. I don't think that they've gotten totally into jet bridges. At least the last time I flew into Burbank they hadn't. And the value of that is that they have people exit the aircraft from both the front and the back. So it hardly takes any time at all to evacuate an airport. Not evacuate, but get people off a plane when they land. Yeah. Which is kind of cool. Much faster. So as a test pilot, what kinds of of aircraft Did you test? What was kind of maybe the most unusual one? No flying saucers, I assume are   Pat Daily  15:52 flying saucers. Got to fly a bunch of different things. Most of my test time was in variants of the F 16. But probably the most unusual aircraft that I got to fly was the Goodyear blimp. There you go. Yeah. And I mean, did going through a test pilot school. And it felt an awful lot like climbing into someone's minivan because the gondola was that spacious that that roomy had plenty elbow room, plenty of people could sit around. It certainly wasn't, was a passenger compartment back in the days of the Hindenburg or anything, but it was, it was still pretty roomy for a modern aircraft cockpit. And we we went in and got to fly out over Long Beach and that whole area and I was the only airplane I've ever flown that only had one wheel. And I know because they tie the nose of the blimp to a big mast. And it just has one large wheel that casters around and as the wind blows it, it can weathervane into the wind and just pivot around on that little wheel.   Michael Hingson  17:09 Did you ever have any involvement with the flying wing? No, no at the time was probably before, well,   Pat Daily  17:17 well before but then the b two is a streamline wind design. And other than watching it, you know seeing it fly around. I never had any any interplay with it or never got to fly it. I do remember having to go out to their facility for something, a meeting or a test mission. And if you weren't cleared into the program, they had to turn on a beeper and a flashing light to let everybody know that that uncleared scum were entering the area and hide all the secret stuff,   Michael Hingson  17:54 tell people what the flying wing is a   Pat Daily  17:56 flying wing is if you can imagine, and airliner with its left and a right wing. And now take away the fuselage where all the people sit and where most of the gas is and the luggage, and then just join those two halves of the wing together. Now you're gonna have to beef it up a little bit, scale everything up. But it turns out that the flying wing design can be incredibly efficient. But it also comes with some pretty scary instabilities that you have to have to be ready to deal with. And so the earlier version, I think the XB 49 was the original flying wing. And it had small rudders to to help it maintain its directional stability. But the b two comes out at completely differently by using kind of differential speed brakes and spoilers. And, you know, that gave us differential thrust, I guess, but it's, it's a much more efficient and much more UFO like looking aircraft than we're used to seeing.   Michael Hingson  19:11 Yeah, well, it will. It will be interesting to see, well, I don't know whether they'll ever use that and probably not for an airliner or anything like that, because there's just not room for much in the way of passengers is there?   Pat Daily  19:23 No, although I've seen the whole design Yeah, and the whole design every once in a while when you see something in Popular Mechanics or something like that, where it's a hugely scaled up flying wing design. And of course, the downside of that maybe it's an upside is that everybody is now stuffed in the middle and and very few people get window seats, but the the times I've found recently hardly anybody is looking out the window anyway. And they tend to close the window shades and just get on their electronic entertainment devices   Michael Hingson  20:00 he up and it has its pluses and minuses to do that. But you know, I put on my earphones but I do try to listen to what's going on around me and try to stay aware. But you have people do that. And, of course, lights are brighter or when you're 30,000 feet or more. You're you're dealing with a lot of things. And as you said, people just want to get on their entertainment devices and escape. And so so that happens and then there you go. I'm still waiting for flying saucers and jetpacks, I'm ready for my jetpack. Yeah, that would be fun. I'm not sure how well I do with a jet pack. We need to get more information that comes in an auditory way rather than visually, but we can get there. Down. Yeah. Or tactically? Well ordered and tactically tactically. Yeah. Which would be both. There's an experiment that the National Federation of the Blind did actually now it's it started. Well, it started in 2001. Soon after September 11, I was at an event in Baltimore when a new building for the National Federation of blind was started called the Jernigan Institute. But one of the things that the President of the National Federation of the Blind back then did was to challenge private industry and the school systems, the college technical college systems to build a car that a blind person could drive. And in 2011, what they created was between Virginia Tech and some companies that worked with Virginia Tech came up with this device, they actually modified a Ford Escape. And what they did is they put a number of different kinds of radar and sonar devices on it. Other technologies that they felt would ultimately not even cost very much. But then the driver sat in the car and had some very long gloves on that would go up their arms, that had haptic or tactile devices that would vibrate, there was also a pad that he sat back against. And there were also something similar to the gloves that would would go around their legs so that there are a number of different kinds of vibrating things that were available to them. And a person was able to drive a car successfully. In fact, there's a demonstration of it's still on the National Federation of the Blind website or a subdomain. It's called www dot blind driver challenge.org. And what you see if you go to that website is a video where the now president of the National Federation of the Blind Mark Riccobono, gets in this device and drives around the Daytona Speedway right before the January 2011 Rolex 24 race, going through obstacle courses, driving past grandstands, and people cheering and all that driving behind a van that is throwing up boxes that he has to avoid, and then passing the van and eventually getting back to homebase. But no one's giving him directions. It's all from the information that the car is transmitting to him. And the reality is that, that it is doable. And he was driving at something like 30 miles an hour, so he wasn't going slow, and had no problem doing any of that. So the reality is, I think it's possible to develop the technology that would make it possible for a blind person to have a safe and good driving experience. And especially as we get into the era of autonomous vehicles, where things are not necessarily totally as failsafe oriented as we would like. And as perfect as we would like, I see legislatures already saying, well, even if you're going to have an autonomous vehicle, someone has to be in the driver's seat who can drive the car, and there should be no reason why that can't be a blind person as well.   Pat Daily  23:51 No, absolutely not. I mean, it's, it's all just a matter of data and input channel, right? I mean, right, whether it comes tactically or haptically, or auditorily, or we could have olfactory cues, maybe, but that that starts sounding a little messier,   Michael Hingson  24:09 probably a lot less efficient to do that. But but the fact is that Mark did this. And I think that car has been driven a number of times, I think he drove it around the streets of Baltimore as well. But the fact is that, that it is possible, which is another way of saying that eyesight isn't the only way to do stuff. But unfortunately, it is the main way that most people use and I understand that but the fact is not using some of your other senses, I think limits drivers a lot. I'm still surprised that for example, with Apple who has constructed all of its technologies to be accessible. So VoiceOver is built into every device that it releases. I'm surprised I haven't done more to make voiceover involved with interactions in automobiles. And there's an android version of, of all of that called TalkBack. But I'm surprised that with cell phones in cars, that they don't use more auditory output. And then like, you've got the Tesla where everything is driven by a touchscreen, which means no matter what you do you still have to look at the touchscreen. Why aren't they doing more with audio?   Pat Daily  25:20 Yeah, that's, that's a great question. And it, I think it gets to something I've heard you say on some of your interviews about sighted people have a disability in that we are light dependent, and you take away the light from us and and the world by and large becomes a navigable right to most of us. And that's just because we haven't tuned our other senses in the way that   Michael Hingson  25:49 you have. And there's no reason that we can't make it possible for people to use more of their senses. But the the automotive industry doesn't tend to do that. I think there's probably although it's still more emergency oriented. In aircraft, there's a lot of information that comes out auditorily, but probably a lot more could as well.   Pat Daily  26:12 Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. And so much in aviation now is, is really autonomous, that the biggest problem that aircraft like the the Boeing purple seven have is, how do we make sure that on a 16 hour flight, the crews are still awake? Yeah. And so they they build checklists to require them every so often to actually physically do something that the aircraft is perfectly capable of doing on its own. But we we want, it seems to still have that that pilot in the loop that pilot and control, do we get alarms or something that makes the pilot pay attention then to do whatever it is they need to do? Yeah, yep, get chart chimes, you get verbal cues, where the aircraft is actually talking to you.   Michael Hingson  27:05 Yeah, it makes perfect sense to to do that. And I've seen times where aircraft have flown, although pilots are still there, completely autonomously landed themselves gone right up to the, to the hangar or to the place where they let off passengers and so on. And all of that technology is accurate enough to do that today. Absolutely. There are several of us that are talking about the concept of trying to use some of the same technology I described with the the car that a blind person could drive to create, or build it into an airplane and have a blind person, fly the plane. And there's one person actually who wants to see this happen, and then be the first person to fly the same route Lindbergh did across the Atlantic, but be a totally blind person doing the flight.   Pat Daily  27:56 Well, that would be one heck of the demonstration of concept. But I'm with you. I don't think there's any reason they couldn't do that. There shouldn't be   Michael Hingson  28:07 any reason why we do have the technology today. It's the usual thing of a matter of finding a matter of will on the part of enough people to to make that happen. But I see no reason why with the technology we have today. We can't do that. Yeah, I think it all comes down to what you said. It's   Pat Daily  28:26 desire and funding. Sounds like a lot of fun down.   Michael Hingson  28:29 We'll see it be a fun project. Well, maybe you can help us. But oh, I have to ask this. In all your flying. Of course, you I'm sure you have flown in like the plane that everybody calls the vomit comment and had your experiences of weightlessness. Absolutely. And but you haven't gone yet fully into space?   Pat Daily  28:52 I have not. That's that's been one of my major disappointments. I always wanted to be an astronaut. And got a shot, got interviewed got to go down to NASA and then try to plead my case. And, and unfortunately, I was not selected, had a lot of friends that were selected, but I was not among them. You know,   Michael Hingson  29:16 Scott Parazynski? I do, we interviewed Scott, not too long ago. So he was talking to us about a number of the space station events and thought things that he has done. He wrote his book with the help of the same person who assisted me with underdogs. Susie Florrie. So that's how we got very good, which is which is kind of fun. So you went off and did Honeywell and and all that and got to work. I've never been to the Johnson Space Center. I'd love to do that sometime. I think it'd be a lot of fun. I have spent some time at NASA Goddard. And of course a little bit at the Kennedy Space Center but nothing really too involved in some didn't really get a chance to look at much of it but it'd be fun to go to the Johnson Space Center sometimes. So we'll have to come down and visit you and go there.   Pat Daily  30:05 Yeah, come on down, we'll take you.   Michael Hingson  30:07 But what did you do after Honeywell and all of that? After Honeywell, I,   Pat Daily  30:12 I launched a consulting company where we did safety consulting, and training and professionalism, professional development. And I really loved them, I really enjoyed the work. But after about 15 years doing that I was kind of done. So I left that behind, sold my share of the company to my partners, and wish them all well and, and move back into the flight test world. And so what did you go off and do? I went up to Moses, Lake Washington to work for Mitsubishi Aircraft Corporation. And at the time, we were trying to build and certify a thing called the originally was called the MRJ, for Mitsubishi regional jet. And then they rebranded it, and called it the space jet, which, which, I don't know, I probably would have picked a different name, but hey, I'm not in marketing. And the thought behind the name was that they had reconceived reconceptualized, the way an airliner is built, traditionally, all the all the luggage, and everything goes in the belly. And that moves the floor of the aircraft up into the aluminum tube. And so you start losing head room and overhead, luggage space. And Mitsubishi had the idea, well, what if we just put all the luggage in the back, and then we have more room in the tube, and even fairly tall guys could stand upright in the in the aisle without having to duck. And that gave us the opportunity to build to build bigger luggage, overhead luggage compartments, and things like that. Unfortunately, that, you know, we, we got to flight test we built maybe seven of them that actually flew me see for here too, there are six that actually flew and then some that were just being used for structure testing. And then and then COVID happened and Mitsubishi decided that the program was far enough behind schedule and far enough over budget, that they needed to really rethink it. And so they they put it on what they call an extended pause. So extended that personally, I don't think it's ever coming back coming   Michael Hingson  32:39 back. It's yeah, permanently pause. So that kind of didn't help your job any?   Pat Daily  32:44 No, no, I got I got laid off from there. And thought that well, you know, I'm not I'm not working when I want to try writing. And so I'd already been playing around with the whole writing thing when COVID hit, and then just took it to the next level and got really serious about it finished the novel. And then, you know, long Behold, found somebody that actually wanted to publish it. You know, Michael, I don't know if you have this problem. But But I have a bit of an ego problem. I think that what I do is pretty doggone good. And so I wrote this book and draft one I thought, okay, it's no, it's no Of Mice and Men. It's it's not great literature, but it's a good book. And so I started sending it out. And and then I joined some writing groups, and the writing groups. It turns out, it's a little harder to get honest feedback than one would hope. Because everybody's worried that they're going to hurt your feelings and offend you. Yeah. And when they tell you you've got an ugly baby. But I had, I had a hideous baby. And it wasn't until well, she's become a friend of mine, another author, Alex Perry, who wrote a wonderful children's book, not children mid grade book, called pig hearted that she finally told me she said, Pat, it's boring. She said, your writing all makes sense. You can put a sentence together but it's like watching somebody else. watch somebody else play. A video came. And, and it hurt. But but it was exactly what I needed to hear. Yeah. And so I joined another writing group. And then I guess after about four or five revisions and 22 queries later, that Inklings publishing, said, Hey, you know, we think you got something here. So, you know, why don't we pair you up with a developmental editor and we'll see you We can do and they paired me up with a wonderful woman named Steph Mathias son. And she shepherded me through three more revisions of the book. And every time it got better, and largely because of the people that were willing to give me that honest feedback people like stuff, so that it you know, it got published and and now I've submitted book to to Inklings, and that should be coming out in December. And I've started on Book Three. So it's been, it's been a lot   Michael Hingson  35:34 of fun. And sequel is booked to a sequel, Book Two as a sequel. Yeah, great. Well, you know, there's nothing like a good editor, they're, they're worth their weight in gold and more. They're editing, right. And I learned that, not the hard way. But I learned it in a great way when we were doing fender dawg, because Thomas Nelson paired us with an editor who said, My job isn't to rewrite this in my own style. And to tell you how to write my job is to help you make this something that people will want to read, and to fine tune what you do. And and he did. We had, for example, I don't know whether you read thunder dog, but one of the parts about thunder dog is that it starts every chapter with something that was occurring on that day in the World Trade Center for me are around it. Then we went back to things I learned in my life. And then we came back and ended each chapter kind of continuing on in the World Trade Center. And what what our editor said was that your transitions lose me there, you're not doing great transitions from one scene to the other. And you got to fix that. And that was all he said. So I volunteered to do the transition examinations and try to deal with that, because it just clicked when he said that. I know exactly what he's saying. And I never thought about it. And and Susie says the same thing, you know, we hadn't really thought that they were as much of a problem as they are. But now that you mentioned it. So literally over a weekend, I've just went through and created transitions for every chapter. And I think that's one of the strong points of the book. And others have have said the same thing that the transitions absolutely take you where you want the reader to go. And it all came about because of the editor. Yeah, and I'm with you there. I   Pat Daily  37:31 think transitions are key. And I largely ignored them as well, in my in my early writing, that that of reading or consuming a book is actually requires work on both ends. And it's easier for the reader, if you pull them along as the writer if you seamlessly pull them into the next scene or seamlessly transition them. So yeah, transitions are huge.   Michael Hingson  38:00 They are and as soon as I heard that it made perfect sense. And the thing about it is I know now that I knew it, then I just never thought about it. So it's it's great to have a wonderful editor who can guide you. Well, your first book is called spark tell us about it, if you would. Spark is a near future science fiction novel, it.   Pat Daily  38:26 It takes place, mostly in Southern California, because when I was flying out there, I remember there being a solar power facility called solar one. And you could see it from probably 100 miles away during the daytime because it was one of these solar facilities where it relied on mirrors to reflect the solar energy up to a central collecting vessel that that normally has some sort of molten salt in it because it turns out that's really good for retaining heat. And then then they use that to transfer the heat to water turn that into steam to power a turbine and voila, electricity, by all always was fascinated by the whole solar power idea. And so spark itself is an acronym. It stands for Solar prime augmented reality Park. And, and as one of my readers pointed out, will pat that should be spark than not Spark as well. Yeah, but but spark doesn't exactly roll off the tongue. So I took a little license there. And the spark is a theme park for gamers. And it is an augmented reality theme park that makes use of both haptic technology as well as auditory cue News and visual cues in a thing I call augmented reality glasses that present the the player with a blended version of the real and the virtual. It's close enough in time to us that most people recognize a lot of the technology. But it posits some pretty impressive changes in artificial intelligence and solar power. And of course, it's it's got action adventure, there are good guys bad guys. The hero of the story a young man named wil Kwan shows up at the park, as you know, after his parents passed away, is his father dies in the second Korean War, which when I wrote it, wrote the book seemed much farther away than it does today. And, and that his his mom suffered mightily from the loss for her husband. And she ends up dying just few years later, and will is left as an orphan and things don't go well for him in foster care. And he ends up running away his goal is to run out to spark where his parents took him when he was younger. And he figures he's gonna get a job and just live there forever. Except that spark won't hire miners. And so he's got to figure out another way around it. And as he does, he realizes that there are far more layers to the game, and to spark itself than are normally perceived by others. And so he starts, he starts hunting a little bit, trying to learn more, he, he meets a young woman that or he has a disastrous first encounter with like, by the end of the novel, even though they still butt heads, they're now holding hands. And so you get a little little action, a little adventure, little romance, little mystery, and it ends up I think, just being kind of a fun novel.   Michael Hingson  42:12 So I would gather from augmented reality and everything else that, that there must be a lot of adventures and quests, and so on in the book. So if somebody were to buy the rights for the book, what quest would you like to see them convert into real life?   Pat Daily  42:29 That's a good question. That's a good question. I think my favorite and I D, detail a couple of the quests pretty deeply in the book, and one is called war on Mars. And I think it would be the most fun because it is the most expansive it, it takes place in mostly in Mariner Valley on Mars, which is so much larger than the Grand Canyon, in the United States. It is seven kilometers deep, that's four and a half miles deep. And it's it's nearly as wide as the United States is or long as the United States is east to west. And so I thought there were some cool things you could do with that out elevation change and, and of course, then there's got to be aliens involved in there, too.   Michael Hingson  43:28 I was just going to ask.   Pat Daily  43:32 Yeah, so So there are some aliens who don't take kindly to us being on Mars, and there's combat but but will is the kind of guy that he would rather think his way through things and fight his way through things. So he's, he's hung up on trying to find a more peaceful solution to our conflict with the aliens and I think that ends up being a lot of fun and wouldn't be a lot of fun to play out in real life.   Michael Hingson  44:03 Hopefully he figures out a way to get some peace and make some new friends.   Pat Daily  44:08 He does. Oh, good.   Michael Hingson  44:09 What character given that you're you're doing this a little bit future mystic kind of where what character was the hardest to develop   Pat Daily  44:18 the the young woman whose name is Shay Cree Patel, but her avatar name is feral daughter, and, and that name came out of something. My own daughter said that I misunderstood. We were on a on a vacation and they were in in shopping and I'd had enough of shopping in that particular store. So I just wanted to go stand outside for a little bit. Enjoy the fresh air. And she came out and she said something that I misunderstood as feral daughter. And I jumped all over that I said, that would be a great name for kind of a counter culture. clothing line, or, or you know, a boutique for women's clothes at a university or something like that. And she goes, Dad, what are you talking about? I said, Well, feral daughter isn't that we such no I and I don't even to this day, I don't remember what she actually said that it was not Farrell daughter. And it turns out that while I think I am a good husband, and good father, I am not very good at writing female characters. And again, my writing groups came in and were tremendously helpful. You know, some painful feedback, but also very good feedback to help me develop the female characters make them more authentic, so that, that neither of my daughters or my wife were embarrassed by the by them at the end   Michael Hingson  45:51 of the day, you mean, your daughter didn't help you? Right? She gave me   Pat Daily  45:55 one daughter, God bless her read all the way through one of the early drafts and gave me a lot of good feedback. The second one, the second daughter was far more interested after the book came out. And she was better at answering specific questions about well, you know, would this would this girl do this? Or? Or what do you think about this? Or how should he or she approached this? So they both been helpful in very different ways? Like, yeah, I, I was embarrassed enough by my writing that I put them through too many revisions of the of the novel   Michael Hingson  46:36 well, but if they, if they looked at it, and really helped unless you just were way too graphic with the sex scenes?   Pat Daily  46:44 No, no. And, and honestly, them that factored into it, I wanted to write a book that I wouldn't be embarrassed for my goats to read any of eventually, their children to read a call. They're calling you now. They're calling me now Dad, what are you saying? So, you know, interestingly, when I got the idea for the book, I was pitching it to my wife when we were out to dinner one night, and she's a fourth grade school teacher. And she started asking me all these questions, what about this, and this and this and this, and it would not be an understatement to say that I reacted poorly to the feedback. And at the end of the night, we ended up still married and still loving each other. But she told me that she was not going to read it until it was published. And so I lost my opportunity to have my first best writer critiquer   Michael Hingson  47:45 How about now with future books and the book you're working on now?   Pat Daily  47:49 Now, I think she is much more open to it.   Michael Hingson  47:52 And are you more open to Yes,   Pat Daily  47:55 yes. And I I'm better at taking feedback. And that helps tremendously. Because now I can I can discuss it a little more dispassionately and talk about what works what doesn't work in a scene and, and how characters might actually react. How old are your daughter's daughter number one is 36. Donner number two will be 33. The end of this year?   Michael Hingson  48:27 Do you have any sons? Nope.   Pat Daily  48:29 Just daughters.   Michael Hingson  48:30 So you've got two daughters, and they still and your wife still has some time to read and comment on your writings. Indeed,   Pat Daily  48:40 although my I'm probably not her favorite genre. Now she she loves historical fiction. So she'll, she'll jump on one of those books more eagerly than a science fiction book.   Michael Hingson  48:56 Well, okay, science fiction book. I guess we have to get to some other questions about that. So if we're dealing with science fiction today, Star Wars or Star Trek?   Pat Daily  49:07 Oh, gotta say I love them both. But I was born and raised on trek. And so I'll always be a Trekkie, even though I am a little disgruntled with some of the decisions they've made and some of the recent movies.   Michael Hingson  49:21 Yeah, yeah, my I hear you. But I like them both. I, especially the earlier Star Wars movies. I think, again, they've they've lost something in some of the translated translations later on. But they're fun. There are a lot of really nice Star Wars and Star Trek books, however, that are fun to read.   Pat Daily  49:44 Yeah. Yeah. And I actually, I actually tried to write a Star Trek book years ago, and I thought it was it was going to be good but it never I never finished it and The series move beyond one of my central characters I made Lieutenant Saavik a central character and, and things just move beyond her.   Michael Hingson  50:11 Mm hmm. Things happen. Yep. Well, and I was, you know, I like all of the Star Wars movies and I guess they they dealt with it but like the the last well of the original Nine with Luke Skywalker I guess in a little in a sense I was a little disappointed of course, I was disappointed that that Han Solo son killed him and what was that number? That would have been what number seven? But nevertheless, they're they're, they're fun. They're great adventure scores. So was Indiana Jones.   Pat Daily  50:46 Yes, yes. Indiana Jones that Raiders of the Lost Ark was actually the first movie I took my wife to go see   Michael Hingson  50:56 her you go down and how she liked it. She loved it.   Pat Daily  51:01 She loved it. I knew nothing about it other night heard other people say great things about it. And so I was delighted that it turned out to be such a good movie. I think it made a positive impact.   Michael Hingson  51:13 And were you afraid of snakes? I had to ask.   Pat Daily  51:16 I hate snakes.   Michael Hingson  51:21 Then as far as more I guess you could say science fiction, probably more fantasy, but something that I think has had a major impact on the lives of a lot of people, especially kids and helping them read is Harry Potter.   Pat Daily  51:33 Yes. That completely hooked. My daughter's my my first daughter got hooked on the red wall series. Brian jocks but then as soon as the Harry Potter's came out, she started devouring those and that is what really turned my second daughter into a reader was all the Harry Potter books. So II and that's the point, right? Yep. Yep,   Michael Hingson  52:01 I think we discovered Harry Potter with the third one in the series, prisoner basket band, we heard about it, and saw some new things about it. And at that time, there was still this company books on tape and we went in and we got copies, we got a copy and started reading the first one. And we got hooked. It was a little while getting into it. But it was a little boring at first, but we got hooked on it. And so we read the Sorcerer's Stone. And then we were hooked and couldn't wait for each of them the rest of the books to come out. So we read the first three pretty quickly because we were already on the Prisoner of Azkaban when we learned about it, but then we grabbed books as soon as we can. We got the audio books because my wife liked to listen to them as well, although we also got a print copy of all of the books, but we enjoyed listening to them. Jim Dale was such a great reader. And one of my favorite stories about all of that is that he was scheduled to read part of the fourth book in the series. I think that was the one published in 2001. When September 11 happened and he was supposed to be in Manhattan and was in Manhattan. He was supposed to do a reading outside of scholastic publishing, publishing. And so when the Goblet of Fire was published, he was going to be there doing a reading at Scholastic because they're the publisher of it. And of course, it was on September 11 And September 11 happened so he didn't get to read it. And we didn't get to go up and listen. But I remember that that was supposed to all happen on September 11.   Pat Daily  53:41 Oh my goodness, I never knew that. So she was going to be an evening thing. We're going to have to take off work, go play a little hooky to listen to the reading Oh,   Michael Hingson  53:50 we we could have gone up there without any difficulty during the day because we were working with scholastic publishing and sold them tape backup products. So it's not even a hard problem to go off and deal with going up there. Ah, okay. And when only going from the World Trade Center up to Scholastic, which is Midtown Manhattan, so was likely we'd be up in that area. Anyway. My favorite though thing about scholastic was we went in once I and a couple of wire other people. And one of the elevators was out of order, and they had a sign on the one that worked that said, this is for muggle use. And then the one that was out of order for wizard use only, which was really cute. I like that. Yeah, it was kind of fun. But you know, I really admire authors and books that promote reading and encourage people to read and I'm glad that that Harry Potter has done that and, you know, I'm looking forward to reading spar have gotta figure out a way to get access to it. I assume it may not be in audio format yet or is it?   Pat Daily  54:53 It is not. But I just started conversations with someone who could be the the narrator and I I've just learned that there's a huge difference between narrators and voice actors. And so I may need someone with voice acting skills, rather than just narration. Because I've got a lot of characters and some drama, and I want somebody that that can do more than simply read the words off the page. But I don't know how long it takes from day one to final release of an audio book. But I will let you know when it happens.   Michael Hingson  55:30 It you do have to get somebody who can read it. Well, I enjoy books where the reader is a as an actor and puts different voices into it. I've been reading talking books from the library of congress, of course, my whole life and early on, especially, they sought actors to do the reading. One of my favorite series has always been the wreck stop series near wolf, the private detective. Yeah, in the in the reader who did the best job was a radio actor named Carl Webber, who I never heard much of in radio, although I clicked radio shows, he did do a show called Dr. Six Gun. And I've discovered that and listened to him. And it does sound like our a Weber. But he read the neuro wolf books, and they were absolutely incredibly well done. So it does make a difference to have someone who's a good actor reading it, as opposed to just somebody who reads the lines, because they will help draw you in. Yeah, yeah. And I actually   Pat Daily  56:35 just downloaded thunder dog. I still do a fair amount of driving and I like to listen to books while I'm driving. So I'm I'm looking forward to hearing that. Well, Christopher   Michael Hingson  56:48 prince did a did a good job with it. I, I don't know how he would be at well, actually, I take that back. I have heard another book of that he read where he did. It was a fiction book. And I'm trying to remember the name of it, I'd have to go back and find it. But he did a pretty good job. He did this for Oasis audio. But there are some good actors out there. And so I hope that you have some success. Let me know. And if you need somebody ever to listen, I'd be glad to help.   Pat Daily  57:17 Oh, excellent. Thank you. I'll take care on that.   Michael Hingson  57:20 I have one last question I've been thinking about not book related. But talking about aircraft. Again, the 747 I keep hearing is probably the most stable passenger airliner that has ever been really produced. What do you think about that? Why is it so stable? Oh, I've   Pat Daily  57:38 got to agree with that a real champion of design. And it's got a couple things in his favor. One is one is the wings are Anhedral, which means that they can't up a little bit and especially when, when they get a little lift on him, they they get pulled up as all their aircraft wings do. And then the enormous vertical stabilizer lends a lot of a lot of stability to the aircraft. And then finally, I think Boeing just did an absolutely spectacular job of, of harmonizing the flight controls and putting everything together to make it a very docile airplane, certainly for something of its size. I mean, it carries so much fuel that he uses fuel for structural integrity when it's more full. And so we have that 747 is a spectacular airplane. And, and unfortunately, it's it's kind of aging   Michael Hingson  58:38 out. But how come they haven't done other things with that same level of design and stability? At least? I haven't heard that they have. But yeah, I   Pat Daily  58:48 think I think the triple seven is close to it. There have been very very few mishaps with the with the triple seven. And it's it's another marvelous airplane. I don't think they got exactly what they're hoping for with the 787. They did have some design issues, some manufacturability issues, but it's it's certainly a highly efficient and remarkably quiet appointment. So   Michael Hingson  59:20 what prompted the question was when you were talking about the Mitsubishi aircraft and so on, and putting the luggage at the backs of taller people could stand up. It reminded me of the 747 with the upper level for first class, the lounge where the pilots and so on were so it almost was to a degree at least a double decker aircraft.   Pat Daily  59:38 Yeah. Yeah. And of course Airbus has made the a 380 which is a true double decker full length. But that's that's another aircraft that hasn't exactly lived up to its hype. Well,   Michael Hingson  59:51 still holding on for flying saucers. There you go. Well, Pat, I want to thank you for being on unstoppable mindset. How do people reach out and maybe learn more about you? Where can they get the book? You know, love all your contact information and so on.   Pat Daily  1:00:08 Okay, probably the easiest way is the website, which is thepatdaily.com. And it's t h e. P a t d a i l y.com. And that has links to to my blog to the bio to all my other socials. I'm on, of course on on Facebook at Pat Daily, author and on Instagram at Pat daily pics and then Twitter at at Pat Daily, or I think it's at Pat Daily author, but easiest way, just the website, everything is there. Down. Cool.   Michael Hingson  1:00:48 Well, I know I'm looking forward to finding a way to read spark and your other books as they come out. That will be fun being a science fiction fan, of course. And I think we talked about it before we were doing this particular episode. But we've talked about science fiction and some of my favorite authors, I would still like to see somebody take Robert Heinlein to the Moon is a Harsh Mistress, and make it into a radio series. Talking about actors. I just think that do. I think you're right. I loved that book.   Pat Daily  1:01:19 I loved so much of what Heinlein wrote, you know, one of the one a great masters of the genre.   Michael Hingson  1:01:25 Yeah, yeah. And I think that's his best book. A lot of people say Stranger in a Strange Land was and it was very unique, and so on. But the Moon is a Harsh Mistress is so clever. And there's so much to it. And of course, then there are books that follow on from it, where some of the world's the same characters are involved. Heinlein created a whole universe, which was fun, did it just sort of like as I did with the foundation series? Well, thanks, again, for being here. We need to do this again. Especially when you get more books out, when you get your next book out, we got to come back and talk about it. I'd love to.   Pat Daily  1:02:02 And and thank you so much for having me on your show, Mike, I really appreciate it.   Michael Hingson  1:02:05 Well, I really appreciate you taking the time to be here. This has been fun. So people go find the Pat daily.com and contact Pat reach out and enjoy the book. And let me know what you think of it. I'm going to get to it as well, I'm just going to find a way to be able to read it. So we'll get there. But for all of you who listened in today, thanks very much for being here. If you'd like to reach out to me, please do so. My email address is Michaelhi@accessibility.com. That's M I C H A E L H I  at A C C E S S I B E.com. Where you can go to www dot Michael hingson.com/podcast where you can reach out to us as well. I hope you'll give us a five star rating. And Pat, we didn't talk about it. Well, we should probably at some point, talk about how accessible your website is and get you in touch with people in accessibe.   Pat Daily  1:03:01  Absolutely. I did check out accessibe and it looks like something that once I get the website fully developed, we'll be in contact.   Michael Hingson  1:03:09 Well, we'd love to help you with that. But again, everyone thanks for being here. Please give us a five star rating and we hope that you'll be back again next week for unstoppable mindset. And again, Pat, thank you for being here as well.   Pat Daily  1:03:20 Thank you, Mike.Take care,   Michael Hingson  1:03:22 you too.   Michael Hingson  1:03:26 You have been listening to the Unstoppable Mindset podcast. Thanks for dropping by. I hope that you'll join us again next week, and in future weeks for upcoming episodes. To subscribe to our podcast and to learn about upcoming episodes, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com slash podcast. Michael Hingson is spelled m i c h a e l h i n g s o n. While you're on the site., please use the form there to recommend people who we ought to interview in upcoming editions of the show. And also, we ask you and urge you to invite your friends to join us in the future. If you know of any one or any organization needing a speaker for an event, please email me at speaker at Michael hingson.com. I appreciate it very much. To learn more about the concept of blinded by fear, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com forward slash blinded by fear and while you're there, feel free to pick up a copy of my free eBook entitled blinded by fear. The unstoppable mindset podcast is provided by access cast an initiative of accessiBe and is sponsored by accessiBe. Please visit www.accessibe.com. accessiBe is spelled a c c e s s i b e. There you can learn all about how you can make your website inclusive for all persons with disabilities and how you can help make the internet fully inclusive by 2025. Thanks again for listening. Please come back and visit us again next week.

Das war der Tag (komplette Sendung) - Deutschlandfunk
Das war der Tag, 26.09.2022, komplette Sendung

Das war der Tag (komplette Sendung) - Deutschlandfunk

Play Episode Listen Later Sep 26, 2022 47:03


Heinlein, Stefanwww.deutschlandfunk.de, Das war der TagDirekter Link zur Audiodatei

Interviews - Deutschlandfunk
Beisetzung der Queen: Interview mit Jill Gallard, britische Botschafterin Berlin

Interviews - Deutschlandfunk

Play Episode Listen Later Sep 19, 2022 8:38


Heinlein, Stefanwww.deutschlandfunk.de, InterviewsDirekter Link zur Audiodatei

Interviews - Deutschlandfunk
EU-Sanktionen gegen Ungarn - Europapolitiker Freund: „Ungarn ist keine Demokratie mehr“

Interviews - Deutschlandfunk

Play Episode Listen Later Sep 19, 2022 6:43


Wegen Verstößen gegen die Rechtsstaatlichkeit will die EU Ungarn Fördermittel in Höhe von 7,5 Milliarden Euro kürzen. Weil aber alle Gelder von Korruption bedroht sein, fordert der grüne EU-Abgeordnete Daniel Freund alle Zahlungen einzustellen. Heinlein, Stefanwww.deutschlandfunk.de, InterviewsDirekter Link zur Audiodatei

Interviews - Deutschlandfunk
Enquete-Kommission - Müller (SPD): Gremium wird den gesamten Afghanistan-Einsatz beleuchten

Interviews - Deutschlandfunk

Play Episode Listen Later Sep 19, 2022 8:55


Die Enquete-Kommission des Bundestages zum Afghanistan-Einsatz der Bundeswehr nimmt ihre Arbeit auf. Ziel sei, Fehler aufzuarbeiten und Schlussfolgerungen für andere Missionen zu ziehen, so der Vorsitzende der Kommission Michael Müller (SPD).Heinlein, StefanDirekter Link zur Audiodatei

Interviews - Deutschlandfunk
Saar-Ministerpräsidentin - Rehlinger fordert Milliarden für den Ausbau des Nahverkehrs

Interviews - Deutschlandfunk

Play Episode Listen Later Sep 19, 2022 11:27


Die saarländische Ministerpräsidentin Anke Rehlinger mahnt ein Gesamtkonzept für den öffentlichen Nahverkehr an. Für die nächsten Jahre sei ein Anstieg der Zuschüsse in Milliardenhöhe notwendig, so die SPD-Politikerin.Heinlein, Stefanwww.deutschlandfunk.de, InterviewsDirekter Link zur Audiodatei

Fallo de sistema
Fallo de sistema - 552: Back to Pulp - 11/09/22

Fallo de sistema

Play Episode Listen Later Sep 11, 2022 59:08


Con el mundo en inflexión, inflación y recesión, guerras, catástrofes ecológicas y una deriva cuando menos inquietante, el Sentido de la Maravilla yergue como un faro de evocación y esperanza para quienes desde los otros mundos aspiramos a reflexionar, analizar y cambiar este que habitamos. Lejos de grandilocuencias, pero tocando hueso desde su inicio, nos encontramos con El Tunche (Ed. Altolibros), una publicación Pulp, de homenaje al género de este formato que con sus bajos precios triunfó en los quioscos pero sin renunciar a la enorme calidad de autores con publicaciones pulp como Asimov, Bradbury, Heinlein, Philip K. Dick o Arthur C. Clarke… Para hablar de El Tunche nos visitan en la Nabucodonosor Mike Babylon, J.M. Gran, escritores, y Mariano Gamo, editor. Con Don Víctor, desde el Planeta Segovia nos pulperizamos con otros títulos relacionados con las viñetas y las ilustraciones. Escuchar audio

Kicking the Seat
Ep798: Page2Screen: STARSHIP TROOPERS

Kicking the Seat

Play Episode Listen Later Aug 29, 2022


Ian and Cole lock pincers for a very special look at Starship Troopers!In the distant future, mankind has expanded its reach into deep space, united by an omnipresent military culture. When a far-flung species of giant bug-like aliens threatens to destroy Earth, a young Mobile Infantry recruit finds himself thrust into a world of gut-wrenching combat, moral challenges, and the chilling prospect that a new lifeform is viciously ascending the food chain.Paul Verhoeven's 1997 big-budget flop was billed as a biting military satire set against a sci-fi action backdrop. But in adapting Robert Heinlein's serious-minded, award-winning 1959 novel, the Robocop director appears to have (literally) lost the plot.In this spoilerific examination, the guys approach this dilemma from very different angles: one loved the book and disliked much of the movie; the other hated Heinlein's novel and found the film to be goofy but enjoyable. From teen drama love triangles, to a debate on propaganda, to the mystery of the missing mech suits, this installment of "Page2Screen" establishes a wide perimeter for its scorched-earth bug hunt!Show Links:Watch the Starship Troopers trailer.Keep up with all of Cole's literary criticism at:The Quill to LiveTorPlus: In case you missed it, check out Cole's recent appearance on NBC's revival of the classic game show, Password! You can find it on Peacock, and see Cole in the series trailer here.Subscribe to, like, and comment on the Kicking the Seat YouTube channel!

Unstoppable Mindset
Episode 52 – Unstoppable Collaborative Leader with David Savage

Unstoppable Mindset

Play Episode Listen Later Aug 26, 2022 65:51


David P. Savage is our guest today. I must say at the outset that he conveyed to me a concept I believe we all should consider. Near the end of our time, David discussed the concept, “Unlocking the possible within a culture of collaboration”. David will explain that and many other thoughts and insights during this episode.   David has been extremely involved in the energy industry throughout his career. He has led teams and groups and he also has taught others to lead using his concepts around collaborative leadership.   No matter what David teaches and says, I find him to be a person who is always learning. He also passes along what he has learned, a trait I admire.   I believe you will enjoy our discussion today. As always, please let me know what you think, and please give us a 5-star rating wherever you find this podcast.   About the Guest: David brings expertise, experience, and leadership including oil and gas, renewable energy, health care, entrepreneurship, stakeholder engagement, business development, coaching, and conflict management. Over a ten-year period, David and his partners collaborated to develop 5 companies and 4 not for profits. Since 2007, Savage Management has focused on building capacity, innovation, and accountability in people and in and between organizations and communities. Beginning in 2015, David has published seven books and hosted forty-five podcasts on collaborative leadership, negotiation, critical thinking, and collaboration. Currently, David is; ✔   President, Savage Management Ltd. (since 1993), ✔   President 2021/22, Rotary Club of Cranbrook Sunrise, ✔   Co-Chair, Environmental Sustainability Rotary Action Group D 5080 (SEBC, E. Washington & N. Idaho), ✔   Advisor, The Canadian Energy, and Climate Nexus, and ✔   Director, Waterton Glacier International Peace Park Association. Past director roles include the ?aq'am (St. Mary's Indian Band) Community Enterprises, Canadian Association of Professional Speakers Calgary, Heart and Stroke Foundation Alberta, Nunavut and NWT, Petroleum Joint Venture Association (President) and Mediators Beyond Borders International- Canada. David's public speaking highlights include; ✔   Mediating the Evolution of Climate Justice for Mediators Beyond Borders International (MBBI), ✔   Nobody Gets to be Right: How to Lead Collaboratively for MBBI, ✔   Leading as a Positive Conflict Resolver: Don't be an A.C.E. Hole, ✔   How to Produce Better Outcomes through Well Designed Collaborations for Rotary International Conference and ✔   Creating Shared Value is the Way: Collaboration is the Path. Conflict, misunderstanding, misalignment of organizations and their leadership, lost productivity, wasted time, and wasted resources resulting from limiting perspectives, distraction, and hardline positions are damaging our today and our future. Our shared future matters!  David's books; Seven books available in print, eBook, and audiobook. Better by Design: Your Best Collaboration Guide, Break Through to Yes: Unlocking the Possible within a Culture of Collaboration 2018 Edition, The Collaborative Podcast Series: Book 1: The Foundations For Collaboration, Book 2: The Collaborative Guest Podcasts, Book 3: The 10 Essential Steps and Book 4: Unlocking the Possible, Break Through to Yes: Unlocking the Possible within a Culture of Collaboration Think Sustain Ability published in Sustain Magazine Company to Company Dispute Resolution Council published the Let's Talk Handbook. david@davidbsavage.com / 403-466-5577 / https://www.davidbsavage.com/ Let's talk.       About the Host: Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog.   Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is an Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards.   https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/   accessiBe Links https://accessibe.com/ https://www.youtube.com/c/accessiBe https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/ https://www.facebook.com/accessibe/       Thanks for listening! Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below!   Subscribe to the podcast If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can also subscribe in your favorite podcast app.   Leave us an Apple Podcasts review Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts.     Transcription Notes Michael Hingson  00:00 Access Cast and accessiBe Initiative presents Unstoppable Mindset. The podcast where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. Hi, I'm Michael Hingson, Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe and the author of the number one New York Times bestselling book, Thunder dog, the story of a blind man, his guide dog and the triumph of trust. Thanks for joining me on my podcast as we explore our own blinding fears of inclusion unacceptance and our resistance to change. We will discover the idea that no matter the situation, or the people we encounter, our own fears, and prejudices often are our strongest barriers to moving forward. The unstoppable mindset podcast is sponsored by accessiBe, that's a c c e s s i  capital B e. Visit www.accessibe.com to learn how you can make your website accessible for persons with disabilities. And to help make the internet fully inclusive by the year 2025. Glad you dropped by we're happy to meet you and to have you here with us.   Michael Hingson  01:20  Hi, and welcome to another episode of unstoppable mindset. Today we are going to be talking with David Savage. David is an expert in helping companies manage conflict and he deals with leadership. And when I asked him how he wanted me to introduce him, he also said and I'm never late for dinner. So I can't argue with that either. David, welcome to unstoppable mindset.   David Savage  01:47 Thanks, Michael.   Michael Hingson  01:49 I'll bet he didn't think I was going to do that, folks. But you know, that's what you get for asking in the answering. So Well, we're glad you're here. Why don't you tell me a little bit about you, maybe sort of early stuff and all that and we'll go where we go. All right.   David Savage  02:04 Really appreciate this. And hello to all of your network of fans out there who enjoy dinner. The background to me is I've published seven books and 45 podcasts on collaborative leadership and inclined conflict resolution. I teach negotiation, mastery circles. And I'm the grandfather of five. I've been in the natural resource and energy, energy transition business all my career. And throughout my career, I've realized I really enjoy working with people and getting business to work better together. When I'm called in to be a firefighter, when supper on the stove is on fire, I I find that it's often that common sense thing that people miss. Often the they get stopped in their stoppable mindset is to their anger and their their reptilian brain and their reactivity. And rather than one of the my 10 essential steps to collaboration is set your intention. So before I met with you in this recording session, Michael, I am sat and set my intention to say let's have some fun today. Let's go different pathways. So you and I are picking up on the same vibe here. But I always want to remind myself on what do I want to have for this conversation or what's the outcome and of course the outcome for this is not only to have fun and not be late, but also to allow your listeners your viewers a few nuggets on my perspective on an unstoppable mindset.   Michael Hingson  04:00 Where are you located?   David Savage  04:02 I live in Cranbrook British Columbia and Kootenay Rockies of Canada.   Michael Hingson  04:08 So it's not dinnertime. So you also don't want to be late for lunch.   David Savage  04:12 Yeah, well, and I just made lunch for me and my partner and so it's all good. And and in fact, in a couple hours we want to go to Naik into the community forest and it's some nature breathing in   Michael Hingson  04:28 fresh air. Yes. Well being a grandfather of five. So when you became a grandfather, was it kind of a quantum leap to I can spoil these kids and send them home at the end of the day and all the things that we hear about grandfather's   David Savage  04:45 Well, I'd like to tease that that grandpa grandparents or parents without rules. At the same time, I just love developing the relationship with my grandkids in teaching them value views and how they are loved and respected, I think indoors with my grandchildren, because in this world today we have a lot of separation, a lot of polarization. And that generation and the next generations younger than me, are the most talented and brilliant in history. So. So for my grandchildren, I want to allow them to, to dream together. We're in fact, with two of my grandchildren, 14 year old green and 12 year old Sarah, we're actually in the process of writing a book together to help them those possibilities in their mind that they can, they can create, they can they can be in. If our shared book is only read by the three of us, that's fine. If it's read by a young adult in Afghanistan even better.   Michael Hingson  06:02 There you go. Why do you think that you're unstoppable?   David Savage  06:10 Yeah, I struggled with that question. In preparing for this discussion, Michael. Of course, nobody's really unstoppable. But when I face dramatic obstacles, I really go to my values. I really go to my sense of, okay, who am I? transparency, honesty and integrity. take the high road. So in some instances, you know, in my own personal life, about seven years ago, I had a huge challenge in my personal life. And people kept on saying, Well, why don't you you know, play the same game as they are, I just won't do that. Because that would actually stop me to allow me to continue to evidence to my family, my grandchildren, my clients, that being honest, being an integrity and and showing my vulnerability, then I can include them. What happened with that is, at the end of the day, the really challenging several years for me, I came out, probably better than anybody expected. Because I would not be dragged down I would not be stopped and in my sense of who David Savage is,   Michael Hingson  07:34 well, do it. Do it slightly a different way. What what do you think unstoppable means or what is unstoppable mean to you?   David Savage  07:47 Yeah. I really believe it is a sense of okay, yes, we are going to have some major obstacles in our lives there, there will be diversions and detours. But to me, Michael unstoppable means I know who I am, I know where I want to go to. And and I will be unstoppable in achieving my goals, my intentions, my dreams.   Michael Hingson  08:13 You know, it's interesting that when phrases and words suddenly catch on with people, they get overused. And I do hear a lot about something being unstoppable or someone being unstoppable. And unstoppable is become a pretty, pretty major buzzword. And I think sometimes overusing those words diminishes their value. And another one is amazing. We always hear about something being amazing, or someone being amazing. I know, people with disabilities who succeed and do the same things that everyone else does or do are called Amazing. And why is that? Really because in reality, what it means is you just don't have a high enough expectation of us to recognize that. It is an amazing, it is what everyone else can do. And why shouldn't we be able to do it, so don't call us amazing. Call us normal call us part of society. But you know, it's that are unstoppable. And it's the same sort of thing. We overuse the terms, but I like unstoppable mindset and the way you just described it, because that's really what it's all about your goal. Unless something really causes you to change it. Your goal is what you you shoot for and what you work to achieve. It may well be that your original plan for how to achieve that goal may change. But still it's the goal. It's the overarching principle that stays the same.   David Savage  09:48 Yeah, yeah. And I love the combination of the two words because unstoppable to me, Michael, is the mindset. Yeah, I can be deterred Written, delayed and all that stuff, but if my mindset is, I want to, I have the skills, I have the network, I have the resources available to me somewhere to get to where I want to be, then it's really my mindset. It's the mindset that gets me there.   Michael Hingson  10:18 Yeah. Which is really what it's all about. Hence, why we call this unstoppable mindset because I think it really comes down to mentally what you think and how you go forward. You know, there are a lot of ways to do it. Some people talk a lot about visioning, vision boards and other things like that. And there's in some people just adopt the mindset that I'm going to achieve my goal. But also achieving your goal means that you're going to do it in an ethical sort of way, too. Yeah.   David Savage  10:51 And the word victim just popped into my heart and mind, Michael is, there are some of us, all of us some of the time, but some of us that just want to hang on to being the victim. Well, to me, that just means I'm giving my ex myself an excuse to not get what I really deserve. And I'm not courageous enough to take the risk of failure or retry, retry, retry, you know, I've got one client, I've been working with coaching. And they, they simply want to go to that mode of, you know, the world is bad to me and I want them to negotiate a better world for themselves. It takes time the victim applies to all of us. What I would also say a real good friend of mine for the last 15 years is a disability rights advocate lobbyist in Washington DC for probably a decade and really worked hard in integrity because she had visible challenges that I don't have and about five to seven years ago Rhonda decided joining in to take a break you know Washington's are sometimes a toxic place and and she ended up going on a three months walk about literally she just took a little economy car and drove around North America talking to folks and saying hey, do you mind if I sleep on your in your spare bedroom or you know, she often captain or occur. And with when we were out on Vancouver Island, she would go swimming with us. So while she had limited use of her limbs, she was unstoppable she still is and she's still a strong strong image and connection and friend for my family members that said well, flicks liquid Rhonda Dyson, she's pretty unstoppable. And it was also self care for her to to get away for a few months and just kind of hit reset,   Michael Hingson  13:09 which is really what it's about, to a large degree. I know a woman who happens to be blind and she and a friend of hers who also is blind. Two or three years ago, I can't recall which just decided they were going to go down and spend a period of time in Peru hiking and touring and so on just the two of them by themselves. And they did and had a heck of a time. And what she said to me was it was certainly unusual to do that to women by themselves much less to women who happened to be blind, but hey, we had so much fun wouldn't trade it for the world it's it's all about mindset and all about attitudes to do the things to do the things that we we choose to do and want to do. And it's like anything else. It's something where were our goals may take a while to achieve. I mean, I think it would be fun to drive a car to really drive a car at least I have in the past but really seriously now given the way most people drive I'm not sure I want to be on the road I I just admire my wife all the heck because of the fact that she drives us around. And and you know, the two of us and people are crazy. They just the way they drive and I hear her descriptions all the time. She also happens to be a person in a wheelchair so she uses hand controls and does it but geez driving has just gotten to be crazy in the world.   David Savage  14:51 Yeah, the you know one of the metaphors that I like to talk about and use when it comes to overcoming barriers is either sports or racecar driving, you know, if I'm driving my Missouri, at 140 miles an hour, 200 kilometers an hour, and there's a crash in front of me. If I look at the crash, I'm going to hit the crash. If I look at where the sliver of road in between that car and the ditch or the wall, I can get there. So it is that constant sense of where do I want to be and continue to look at that? I, there's just so I have no credibility, because when it comes to disabilities, I have many abilities. I've got many disabilities, maybe mentally sometimes. But at the end of the day, what I do with respect to diversity is I really focus on including all the voices, including all the perspectives, so people that are very different from me, people with a different culture, different abilities, different demographics, I really want to, to the best of my ability, include them in my negotiation, my leadership and my teams to say some of the most brilliant insights come from the most unexpected places. Often, oftentimes in my, in my green team, and my rotary environmental sustainability group in Washington, Idaho and British Columbia, the most brilliant ideas come from the 16 to 18 year old young people. And they tell me, David, we've never had this voice. Nobody's actually listened to us before. And we say, as the old folks, please, please inform us, please share your wisdom, because it is and when, especially when we're talking about sustainability, it is your future and our shared future. But we better stop minimizing those that are  nodes that are that we're in conflict with, they have much to teach me.   Michael Hingson  17:26 But it also goes the other way. And that is that people who have lived long lives who have been successful or who have observed life, also have a lot of information that they can share. And all too often, we ignore that as well, especially when they get past a particular age. How do we break down that barrier as well? Yeah,   David Savage  17:53 ageism is I think what we're talking about right is, Well, geez, I was an ageist once, before I got old. I remember telling my parents when I was a young kid. Yeah, don't trust anybody over 30. And oftentimes, in our culture, especially in North America, anybody that's over 60 Well, they're not worth the investment. They, you know, they're rigid, whatever, those shackles they put on our opportunities. It's just, you know, we are our job, as elders, as mentors, as coaches, is to create the safe space and mentor and help encourage. And I think our job is not to block the block the road just to continue that metaphor is, I find that there's too many people in my demographic, they're still trying to hang on to power. And our greatest gift now is to encourage the healthy use of power by those that are younger than me. So So I think it's a bit of a twist on the ageism. Yes, I love my work. I want to do this work for another 10 years at least, I'd love my clients around North America. But it's time for me to do everything I can to support those clients, those young people, those next generation, those people that are are different from me in so many experiences and cultures, it's it's prime time to get them ready, capable, accountable. And in leadership,   Michael Hingson  19:38 of course, you get to be 30 At some point, and as some say, it's amazing. When you think back on it, how much your parents learned by the time you were 30 Right?   David Savage  19:51 Yes. Yeah, I think I think I think Michael there is a somewhat predictable when you know, to me roles start saying no, most often, that's a healthy thing. And then when a teenager starts expressing and demanding their power, that's understandable and expectable, but at some point, but once those young leaders have their own mortgages, their own careers, their own children, it's like, huh, Mom and Dad weren't all that stupid.   Michael Hingson  20:25 And the other side of it is that, as we gain more wisdom, hopefully and as we get older, rather than saying no to those teenagers necessarily, it would be it would be appropriate to say no, but let me show you and tell you why I say that. And then you do have to let people make their own mistakes. And, and IT risk taking is certainly a part of what we all have to do. I remember when my parents were told that I was blind at about four months old, and the doctor said, send him to a home because no blind child could ever amount to anything, my parents rejected that. You're kidding. And oh, oh, it happens all the time, even today, that the expectations for people who happen to be blind are extremely low. And they blame it all on the blindness, rather than allowing us the opportunity to flourish. And it doesn't just happen with people who are blind. I mean, we see it with race and so many different kinds of things in our world. But for blind people, it happens all too often, my parents went the other way, I don't think to an extreme, by any means, because they always kept an eye on me, they always talked with me, but they let me do stuff. until I was five, we lived in Chicago, when I'd walked down to the local candy store, I'd walk around the neighborhood, I went to kindergarten when I was four, and was involved with a lot of activities around the school, some of which I remember and some of which I don't. But my parents then when we moved to California allowed me to take risks and a little bit more rural community, I learned to ride a bike and figure out how to know where cars were, when they were parked on the streets and other things like that. And they allowed me occasionally to kind of get get hurt a little bit or whatever. But there were always discussions around and saying, what did you learn from that? And I think that's the biggest issue that we can teach anyone is introspection, and say, at the end of the day, whether things went well, or they didn't go, well. What did you learn from it? And can you go back and think about that, can you go back and think of the choices and how you would improve what you do?   David Savage  22:52 Very much. So I just want to go back to my first of my 10 essential steps in collaborative leadership is sent set intention is my intention for that young person on my staff or my child, it's my intention for them to grow powerful, influential, successful, and brilliant and healthy. While there is one roadmap for me and for that relationship, or is my intention to keep them safe? And I think those are almost mutually exclusive intentions. Seat safety can do a lot of harm.   Michael Hingson  23:38 Well, yeah, um, I think the issue about safety is that we need to teach what it means to be safe and to stay safe. And then we need to let people make choices based on really having the the appropriate knowledge, which is part of the whole way we get to be successful in understanding some of these things. Because ultimately, you have to try things for yourself. I mean, how often do children get told don't touch the stove? It's hot. And you know, eventually they're going to touch the stove when a Tom but but why do they do that? Are they doing it just to rebill? Are they doing it because they don't understand what it means. And if if it's the ladder, it's all about exploration. But once they do it once, they won't do it again, because they now really understand. And it's like blindness. People talk about blindness all the time and they talk about what we can't do and that blind people are not really capable of working successfully like others. And of course, we can show lots of evidence of that. And a lot of blind people subscribe to that because they don't know differently until the time that They, in fact discover they can do what they really want to do. And employers discover that hiring a person who is blind or someone who is different than they really isn't that big of a deal because we can help them become successful, then it isn't just a theory anymore. It's an emotional buy in.   David Savage  25:24 Yes. I'm also thinking of another friend of mine in Calgary. When London, England was hosting the Summer Olympic Games, he was the drummer on the video to introduce everyone to the London Olympics. And no, just picture a drummer doing great work, really high energy. And then think about when there was the Paralympic Games. And he was a victim of thalidomide, he has no arms, and yet he's one of the best drummers I've ever heard. So there's there's a challenge to our perspectives. I think also, when I think of some of the helicopter parents who just want to protect and therefore disrespect, and disempower their own children or their own staff members, then I think of people like Michael, who was high up in a tower on September 11 2001, you should definitely wear it safe, and you survived.   Michael Hingson  26:36 Well, you know, and helicopter parents, for example. I understand it, intellectually, I understand and you do to what their concerns are. But what, and let me go on with today's world, it's got to be a whole lot less safe being a kid than it used to be, especially girls, but not just girls, but kids in general. And at the same time, if we don't find ways to teach children the same things that we learn from our parents, although we may be doing it in a different way we are and coming at it from different directions, we still need to teach them those things, because those are the basic things that allow us to survive.   David Savage  27:26 Yeah, a huge challenge and opportunity to change that mindset of we need to lock everything up, we need to keep our children safe, we need to need to need to need to, well, I still have family members and friends that don't have a lock on their house. So they can go away for two weeks and they know that house is going to be fine. That mindset of we need to protect ourselves against what might be out there. And I definitely agree with you might call that some of the risks are very great and very dramatic. And at the same time, if if we are falling prey to that mindset of fear and scarcity, it really takes away again, the power, the ability, the risk taking for people just to have fun outside, go out with your friends and not feel like you have to be driven to and from and all of that good stuff. God in your organization and being a be able to just do a lot of different innovative things together. When we get so tight, and so fearful of the consequences, I think the consequences are already here.   Michael Hingson  28:45 Yeah, and we, we make the consequences, all that much worse by not preparing people. And that's what we as older people also need to learn to do is to understand the society and help prepare those younger than we and use our knowledge and creativity to find other ways to teach. I remember being in New York before we moved to New Jersey, when I was working for a company, I would travel back to the New York area from time to time. And I decided I wanted to take a walk around Midtown Manhattan. We were up near Times Square actually. I was staying at a hotel. And I'm another thing I was I was gonna go to my favorite record store in New York City at the time that actually sold records even in the 1990s colony records. And I walked out of the door to my hotel. And this guy comes up to me and he says, hey, you know, I'm a guardian angel. Do you know who we are? And I said, Yeah, I'm familiar with you guys. Being around to help people and so on. He said, I'd like to just walk with you. And I said you don't need to. He said I really would like to and I said well if you feel it's necessary. But you know, here's what we're gonna do. And I let him walk with me and it was fine. Other times P and other people weren't around. But I would like to think that he didn't just do that sort of thing for me. And as I learned, and in learning more about them, I wasn't the only person who got assisted or monitored by these people. And it was really nice to know that there were people who were spending the time to look out for you, so long as they didn't try to restrict, you know, what you do. Now, if I wanted to go into the middle of Central Park where it was dark, I suspect he would have been a little bit more concerned. But I also wouldn't do that, because that's a reasonably unsafe place to be. And so I think that there are certainly practices that we all need to deal with to help keep ourselves safe. But I learned enough about the environment that I understood a lot of those things, and even so he wanted to help. That was fine.   David Savage  31:02 Yeah. I'm thinking about the definition of respect that I was taught about 18 years ago, me and others were teaching and negotiation mastery at the Omega institutes near Rhinebeck, upstate New York. And one of the participants came up to me and said, Dave, do you know what the definition of respect is? And I said, Well, yeah, I think I do. But obviously, you have another take. And she said, respect is not doing for others what they can do for themselves. And I love that. I just love that definition of respect.   Michael Hingson  31:45 I am a firm believer, and we need to teach people to fish, not give them a fish. And yeah, I think that makes absolutely perfect sense. I know that. And I've said it before in this podcast. When ever I've hired a person to sell for me, I have always, on the first day said, I know I hired you, I'm your boss, but I hired you because you did a good enough job to convince me that you could sell our products. So my job is not to tell you what to do and how to do it. But my job is to work with you to see how I can be a second person on your team, and add value to what you do. And as we learn to work together better. And we figure out how I can assist you, which will be different from how I assist the guy at the desk next to you, then we will have a better relationship and you will be more successful. And the point is that I could add value to the people whom I hired. And that's the way it really ought to be. And one of the value is that I could could teach them things and they had to be willing to to listen. And the people who chose not to take advantage of a lot of that kind of stuff weren't successful. And the ones who did were extremely successful. But it wasn't just because of necessarily what I did. But they were already on a path to being observant and analyzing and making good decisions.   David Savage  33:25 And may I suggest open   Michael Hingson  33:27 and open. And so we were able to be successful together.   David Savage  33:35 That being coachable that part of me being coachable being realizing that I don't know it all. And you and I and others can do far more together than I can ever do. On my own. It's it's apparent, but sometimes it's just not apparent.   Michael Hingson  33:55 Right. Tell me what you mean by Nobody gets to be right. I've heard you say that before.   David Savage  34:01 Well, we've we've talked about teenagers and somebody that and children and all that and and I learned as a father that raised my three kids on my own substantially. You is more important for me to give them power and accountability, positive and negative. Then I I learned in so many that conflicts that I've engaged myself in by simply listening and listening and listening. profound ideas and innovations changes to the directions come when I come forward not feeling I have to pitch or convince or sell you. Pardon me, Michael. So I think as a leadership coach, encouraging leaders and family members and parents to be more curious, the less polarizing and command and control the greater the outcome. So it is it is in this these complex times is a real power to be curious.   Michael Hingson  35:11 Curiosity is a wonderful thing, and we should never discourage it. And, in fact, we should encourage it. And all too often again, we discourage it way too much.   David Savage  35:25 Yeah. Yeah, all I can say is listen, listen, listen, I have in companies that I've been part of the management, we've run into some conflicts. And after weeks and weeks of simply listening to our opposition, we came up with far better capital expenditure and facility plans, and our shareholder, our shares tripled, very quickly. If I would have been command and control, this is the way we're going to do it, I'm going to convince you and I've got these rights while that company was still next door, and they never got anything built. So this is not soft skills. These are hard skills for communication for families, for organizational leaders to say, what if I stayed open? What if I actually realized that there's a gift in what the person it seems to be challenging me, there's something there some gems, some piece of gold that I need to uncover?   Michael Hingson  36:31 One of my favorite books on leadership and team building is The Five Dysfunctions of a Team by Patrick Lencioni. And yes, yeah. And I think one of the most important things he talks about is, when you're working as part of a team, when the team makes a decision, or even if the team leader says this is the way we're going to do it, you go along with that. But if it turns out, it wasn't a good decision, then the team recognizes that collectively, it has the wisdom to make a change, and to try something different, and it may happen several times. But it has to start with respecting that the team is in it together. And respecting that. Who ever maybe created the final decision that wasn't right, is also wise enough to recognize it wasn't right and then work to find a better solution.   David Savage  37:36 Very much, so very much. So. You know, Patrick Lencioni is an amazing leader. He's taught me a lot. Another book that I really encourage our your listeners, your community, to read, listen to take in is think again by Adam Grant. And I just want to share a quote that really, I think lands the point that you and I are exploring here. It takes humility to reconsider our past commitments, doubt, to question our present decisions and curiosity to reimagine our future plans. What we discover along the way can free us from the shackles of our familiar surroundings, and our former selves. I think that's a, an incredible invitation to learning. And through curiosity, and challenging myself to think again, and then think again.   Michael Hingson  38:40 Well, Jimmy Carter once said, we must adjust to changing times while holding to unwavering principles. And I think that that's just as important. There are basic tenets, there are basic principles. And I think that as we progress in our development, which is another way of saying maybe as we get older, we make sure we understand the principles but then we have to teach those principles to others and recognize we may get to them in a different way. I mean, in the past, you went to school and teachers wrote on the blackboard, and they lectured to you and so on. It's a whole different world. We're still teaching, we need to adjust to the fact that the process might change. But what we have to do is still the same.   David Savage  39:30 Yeah, the my experience I just sold a used for runner, and my habit is to buy brand new and I want and then drive it for 500,000 kilometers 350,000 miles. And so I sold mine and and I had the experience this time because I had that vehicle for 13 years I had this experience of We put it on Facebook, and the awful toxic comments on Facebook from just trying to sell a great condition used for runner. Everybody had to pile on and be really rude and angry. And then they started to a social media fake that people that really love the vehicle said, Oh, no, this is really great. He was just astounding. So I just thought, you know, I gotta take it off Facebook, this is not a conversation where I can get my use for runner in the hands of somebody that would really love it and appreciate it. Went on to ge, ge and autotrader. And all those and there was much more civil. But again, you know, changing in culture, my view is, if you like a vehicle, come look at that, look at the service records, get it inspected, drive it, talk to the owner. And then if you like it, then making an offer. On those other online sites, people said, well, we take this much, and I said, I'm not going to negotiate until I know that you're going to come and look at it and see what you really buying. Because, you know, I could sell you a bucket bucket of bolts for half price. But that's not a bucket of balls. And and so of all the people there was probably 30 people on Facebook, that were posting toxic comments, there was probably 20 people on the other platforms that just wanted to talk about price. And there was only four that came in sight. And then I had a number of people saying, jeez, that is worth it. I'd like to buy that. So as a negotiator, I always say you know, the money comes last, whether it's your corporate culture, your family, but to deal with a the issues, the interests, the opportunities, and then whatever's left, we can talk about compensation. But in in my social media and my online experience in selling a used for renter, it's like, wow, that wouldn't have happened even five years ago. And yeah, I'd rather just, I was, I think it might have been with you and I talking last week, Michael, I said your three wonderful to have 10,000 connections on LinkedIn. But four would be very profound if they were the right four,   Michael Hingson  42:18 correct? Well, and connections is the operative word. I was talking with someone yesterday about a lot of the things with social media. And the fact is that, are we really connecting with a lot of social media, Facebook, and so on, you just talked about posting a lot of toxic comments and so on. But it took some heavy work to get to four people who really connected with you. And then decided this was worth exploring, rather than just spewing out a lot of toxic stuff that doesn't serve anyone's purpose.   David Savage  43:00 Or even selling a one size fits all solution. You know what? There's so many people that approach I'm sure you way more than me, Michael, just hit you with here's my package, and here's why you need to buy it. And that just doesn't work for me. It's okay. What's the challenge? What's the optioning? What's the pain? And then let's collaboratively come up with a solution or a service that suits you. Well, then that takes way too much time I just want to package? Well, you don't want to really solve your opportunity or your problem then   Michael Hingson  43:37 when people asked me to come and speak. And I'm sure you see it a lot to the very first question is what do you charge? So I'm, I'm glad to tell people I I say all the time well, in 2016, Hillary Clinton got $250,000 to speak for Goldman to Goldman Sachs. And I think I'm worth it. And in some people stop for a second. And then they realize maybe that really wasn't what he meant. And it breaks, but it breaks down a lot of barriers. And ultimately, my response is I'll give you a number. But we really need to see what you need. And I have I've done presentations where we settled on a number but I will also say as long as I'm there. And we do settle on a number as opposed to it being a hard and fast. It has to be a certain amount, right. But I also say that when I'm there, I'm your guest, and I want to add as much value as I can. And so now that we've agreed on a number, let me also say if there are other things that I can do for you, in addition to speaking during this particular time segment at your event, if I can do any other workshops and so on, let me know I am glad to do that because I'm coming there to help you to be of assistance to you to add value to your event and I will Do whatever you need me to do. And some people have really taken me up on that. And it turns out that I've done a whole lot more work than we originally talked about. I don't charge more for that, because I'm there to be of assistance. I'm going to be there anyway. And it's also a lot of fun.   David Savage  45:19 Yeah. So to your point, you know, you might do a keynote, and then two or three breakout sessions and private meeting and follow up. You know, I guess that's not only very clever and generous expertise, Michael. But it's also the realization that no matter how much money even if somebody offered me a quarter million, which nobody has yet, for some reasons,   Michael Hingson  45:44 offered me that I'm really disappointed. But yeah, go ahead. But even if they did,   David Savage  45:49 I think your quote, your response would be the same as mine is, how do we make this really effective over time? Because Because being a speaker, you know, it's not all that difficult to create some hallelujah moments. But I think this statistic says is three weeks after a speech, nobody actually remembers what you said. But they can remember what you challenged them with, or how have you felt? Yeah, so so it's a it's a long term commitment. It's not a pay me a bunch of money, and I'm gonna go cash a check and run away. Not at all not not for you, not for me.   Michael Hingson  46:27 That's my belief. And when people come back in six or nine months, or even years later and say, We remembered you, because, yeah, and we want you now to come back, or we remember what you said. And we really appreciate that. And we still hear from people about the time you were there, then I can't I can't complain a bit.   David Savage  46:50 I think that's true. And leaving earlier this afternoon, I was approached by a group by the central Canada. And I said, Well, how did you find me? And they said, well, our President participated in one of your negotiation mastery circles 13 years ago. So there you go. Some words still worked. And I think the other parts in you know, when we talk about unstoppable mindset and diversity and supporting those that aren't naturally are currently in the inner power circle. I think it's also important to allow them to negotiate what they pay me. So for example, I have a series of prices. If if, if a client is in a major conflicts, and they're going to try Oh, well, there's one rate, the opposite end is if it's a person, as an entrepreneur, or starting out or university or just not in the advantage position, I let them name their price. So sometimes that's free, and sometimes that's 20 bucks. And I'll say, okay, because I believe in you. Yeah.   Michael Hingson  48:06 And sometimes the, the, the amount has to be reasonable enough to make it so you don't lose a lot of money, at least expenses. And sometimes I've spoken just to get expenses paid, and I will sometimes do that. But I also find the people who just try to always negotiate you down to paying as little as possible, are the ones that take a lot more work than, than others. And they also can be some of the more challenging ones to work with, from the standpoint of just, they're hard to work with, as opposed to genuinely trying to deal.   David Savage  48:44 Yeah, they're the, they're the ones wanting to buy the foreigner for two thirds of the value, they're not prepared to actually make the investment of building a relationship with you designing something that's powerful. And, and I'm also thinking of that famous wine experiment, you know, where, where they took a bunch of wine experts, and they said, here's a $90 bottle of wine, and here's a $9 bottle of wine, and then got them to rate them individually. And then they switched the labels. And I was the one that they were told was the $90 bottle of wine was far superior to the 919 dollar one. So that there is that impact of you know, separate and aside from those starting out starting over entrepreneurship. You were valued more, the more you charge, which is kind of an interesting metric.   Michael Hingson  49:42 Right? Well, Trader Joe's, which is a store shop in this country, it's a decent chain, had Charles Shaw wine, or sometimes called to buck Chuck because they sold it for $2 A bottle. Wine wasn't the greatest in the world, but I recall many years ago, there was a blind taste test in New York. And one of the wines was to buck Chuck. And it won the top award for wine. And then when people discovered it, they all wanted to change their minds. And, but but the bottom line, is it. The damage was already done, folks, if you will.   David Savage  50:21 Yeah. So. So I want to I know that we're getting close to the end of our discussion, Michael, and I'm really enjoying this because you and I play together? Well, I believe. I want to ask you a question.   Michael Hingson  50:36 All right, and then I've got a couple for you. But go ahead. What is   David Savage  50:39 in this moment is one quality that you think is most important to be an unstoppable mindset? What's one quality?   Michael Hingson  50:52 For me, I would think that probably the most important quality is that you truly analyze, and think about what you are doing and what you want. And, in your own mind, create what you feel is the pathway to get there. And then be open to change. So in a sense, openness is part of it. But it doesn't mean lack of confidence. But rather, you need to be open to dealing with your plan. And addressing in your own mind the issue of how do I tweak it as I go, but this is where I want to get to, and I want the plan to be it isn't having a million dollars in the bank. I think I think unstoppable is when we are helping ourselves to move forward emotionally, intellectually. And through that, obviously, also, physically and in terms of our own survival and other things like that.   David Savage  52:02 So may I ask you a second question?   Michael Hingson  52:05 Oh, sure.   David Savage  52:07 How do you want to get remembered 10 years after you pass.   Michael Hingson  52:14 I want people to remember me as someone who helped them who was able to teach them something. And I want to be remembered as somebody who was open to learning. Thank you. Now why did you ask?   David Savage  52:37 Well, to me it is that unwavering principles that you mentioned from President Carter, it is what we would call an extra, you know, it's, it's how do I stay focused on the my pathway, if I could call it that way, my, my route my values. And oftentimes when I deal with organizations and communities in conflict, I take them to the future they want to create, and we can always agree on that, then we need to work backwards. Okay. If you want to be remembered that way, what do we need to do in the next three years, and the next year, the next month, the next day? You know, it's much easier map that way? Right?   Michael Hingson  53:21 Tell me a little bit about what you're doing now. And I want to get to your books also. But what you're doing, you talked about hosting and being involved in mastermind courses and mastery courses, and so on. Love to learn a little bit about that.   David Savage  53:38 But as we as we touched on earlier, I think change takes time. So the way I approach what I serve my clients, and my volunteer obligations is the set the intention, create the measurable objectives based on the challenges and opportunities and do it over time to a gently so that we're all very, very busy. And habits take time to change. So I prefer to work with people over a six month period as opposed to a two day period. And I also I also encourage insurrection. Some of my clients have told me that I incite insurrection, because in organizations when the people in the middle have started challenging the people at the top. I think that success. I think that means they're thinking for themselves they trust enough to challenge and their ideas can be now heard. That doesn't happen overnight. And oftentimes the person in the corner office or at the top of the food chain isn't very happy when that happens. So I guess the other pre condition is the Listen at the top must buy in and must be seen to be participating and be learning as we go together.   Michael Hingson  55:07 What's one question that you ask to help understand the leadership style of someone or a new contact?   David Savage  55:16 Well, something that I was informed of, by a friend who at one time was the VP of Union Carbide. Heather asked me told me this question asked me this question. In history, in literature in fantasy, whatever, what is one person that you most want to be like? So whether it's fictional or real, what's one person that you really like to be seen as? And that's not only an engaging question, because a lot of us don't have the immediate answer to that. But what Heather told me at that time was, she's used that one question, you know, what's that superhero that you'd like most likely to be? What like, is the most profound human resources, candidate or board selection committee question she ever asked. And if, you know, some people will say, I want to be Vladimir Zelensky, or I want to, I want to be, you know, Nancy Pelosi, or I want to be, you know, any number of things. Some people don't want to be Batman. But it can actually give you a sense of their playfulness of how they want their focus their pathway, their goal, their next shift would be. So that that's one question that in itself, we can turn that into our whole further conversation as to what's that all about? What does that mean to you? What does it feel like when you get to that point? So they start so they start to claim that space?   Michael Hingson  57:08 And you get so many interesting answers from that, and the people who perhaps have thought about it, although maybe they haven't thought about it quite that way. But then Nevertheless, when you ask the question, and it pops out, you obviously can, can go in so many directions will Why do you choose that person or tell me more about that?   David Savage  57:29 Well, in in Heather's case, when she was at Union Carbide, you know, this would have been 25 years ago, the new boss said Hitler, and she resigned the next day. And Union Carbide had a series of disasters over the next two years, I won't go into them, but horrific disasters, so it really worked for her. Yep.   Michael Hingson  57:55 So who would? Who would you answer that about what would your answer be? I was afraid you knew I was gonna ask that I   David Savage  58:01 was afraid. I've always struggled with answering my own question, Michael. Because I don't have heroes. Well, it sure I have heroes that there's many admirable people in the world. But I don't attach to any of them. You know, if if I said, Geez, I'd really love to be George Harrison. Well, that's nice. But it's so it's not me. That's not me. And I think, to me, it's about becoming David.   Michael Hingson  58:39 Well, and that's true. If I had to pick someone out, because I can see you might try to spring this so I was about to I'll answer. My favorite science fiction book is The Moon is a Harsh Mistress by Robert Heinlein. And it's a story of the takes place in 2075 300 years after the US revolution. And as part of that whole thing. There is a a technician, basically, who works on the it's a revolution on the moon. So the moon has been colonized, and so on. And so there's this whole system where what you pick up on fairly quickly as the moon is being treated, like America was being treated by England in 1775. And there's this computer technician who's working on their major mainframe who discovers that the computer has as he put it woke up and it's, it's, it's established its own personality and so on. And he and the computer, and a few other people start to think about how do we revolt and rebel against the lunar authority, the company on Earth, it's coordinating the moon stuff, right and keeping everyone subjected to horrible things. And along the way, one of the people that he brings into this Is Professor Bernardo dela Paz, who was one of his teachers. And I would like to be most like Professor Bernardo dela Paz, because one of the things that that happened is that the professor as, as the main character in the book, Manuel Garcia Kelley talks about, he said, the professor once said, many times, I will be teaching someone, something that I don't know a lot about. But as long as I can stay at least a lesson ahead and continue to learn myself, then we'll make progress. It wasn't quite the way he said it. But similar to that, and I liked that attitude. And I just think it's the kind of attitude I would like to have is, if I can teach and as long as I can stay a little bit ahead and be challenged, and work with people, then I'm good.   David Savage  1:00:54 Yeah. So you're evolving your lessons evolving your own learning, and not simply rolling out, you know, the curriculum that you've done for the last five years?   Michael Hingson  1:01:04 Right. Tell me a little bit, because as you said, I know we're getting a little bit late, but we're having a lot of fun with this. But tell me about your books.   David Savage  1:01:17 Well, thank you, Professor dill abounds.   Michael Hingson  1:01:20 I'm you should read the book. It's a great book.   David Savage  1:01:23 I haven't read a Heinlein book in a long time, but I love them viewed beautiful art history and visionary writing my books. Actually, in the three books that I'm writing right now, one with two of my grandchildren, it is fiction. So I'm getting into fiction, the seven books that I've published so far on Audible. Kindle, in print, I've, it's really a breakthrough to Yes, unlocking the possible within a culture of collaboration. So I'll say it again, unlocking the possible within a culture of collaboration. And I guess, my 10 essential steps for collaborative leadership, my better by design, which was my 2018 latest book, I really want to help people work together better. One of the one of the things that I think is clever about the the title, the cover of my first two books, breaks through the s, is I've shadowed four letters in the title of break through the s on the cover. And those letters are E. G. O 's, and egos are the greatest barriers to collaboration. So I love the playfulness, I love having some artistry in that. And unlike any other book that I've seen, you noticed since I started writing these in 2015, and still writing, there's not a lot of books on collaboration. And the books that are on collaboration are not collaborative books. So along the curiosity and nobody gets to be right line, Michael, I reached out and include quotes, on my seven books in my 45 podcasts, from 100 Different people in eight different nations to say, Well, what do you think about what is the greatest barrier to collaboration? What do you feel is your highest value, things like that, that are really important and, and well, while I go through, some people say if you've failed a lot, and that's true, I have failed a lot. And it's important for me to give examples of how I've failed in my collaborations, what I've learned from them, and how I, how I offer that to the listener to say, well, this is what Dave went through. Now, here's what I might do. Probably the bit, if I'm asked, okay, what's, what's the one thing, Professor Diller pause and they want to come back to being playful? is just having that pause, Professor of the pause, just have that pause between stimulus and response. Where we can say what is my intention? What what do I want to create here? And is my No, we talked about a number of words that are misused and misunderstood. Collaboration in the last seven years has become one of those along with sustainability. They are such profound and brilliant words, but they're thrown out to without any regard as to what it really takes to focus on sustainable leadership on collaborative leadership on I'm actually creating innovative teams. Yeah, we, we think we can just call a meeting, and we'll do some whiteboard work? Well, no, no, it's like that speaker negotiation, if that's the way you approach it, that you're going to be a little limited in what your outcomes are. Yeah.   Michael Hingson  1:05:21 And openness is, is ultimately where it starts.   David Savage  1:05:28 Very much. So I don't like it to be right. I do not know at all I need to encourage myself and my clients to towards critical thinking, because speed of change, and the increase in complexity is getting more and more challenging at every moment. So we must go there as opposed to defensive, angry, control based leadership.   Michael Hingson  1:05:56 Well, David, it has been absolutely fun having you on unstoppable mindset, how can people reach out to you and learn more about you, and maybe contact you?   David Savage  1:06:07 Thank you, Michael, for the opportunity to speak with you for this hours, it has been delightful again, I really appreciate you and my website would be David B savage.com. And you can find that ton of resources, videos, audio, their downloads. And what I would offer is anybody that contacts me, and quotes here in new and I talk in this podcast, then I will offer them a free digital copy of my book better by design, how to create better outcomes through well designed collaboration. And I'd be happy to have a conversation with any of your listeners just to say, okay, what can I learn? What can I learn from you today? There you go.   Michael Hingson  1:07:06 Well, perfect. So I hope people will reach out to you. And I'd love to hear how that goes and what you what you discover and and who interacts with you. So I, of course want to keep in touch and communicate. Anyway, I've learned a lot today. And I have always been a believer that if I don't learn as least as much as whoever I'm working with, then I haven't done my job right. So I really appreciate all this time with you. And we will spend some more together, I'm sure.   David Savage  1:07:37 Thank you so much, Michael and take good care.   Michael Hingson  1:07:40 Well, you as well. And everyone who's listening. Remember, go to David be savage.com. And if you reach out to David refer to unstoppable mindset podcast, and you can get a free digital copy of his book. I'd like to hear from you to know what you thought of today's so please feel free to reach out to me my email address is Michaelhi at accessibe.com. That's M I C H A E L H I at A C C S S I B E.com. Or go to our podcast page www dot Michael Hingson M i C H A E L H I N G S O N.com/podcast. Thanks again for listening. Thanks for being here. Hope you'll join us next week. And when you rate this podcast, we hope that you will do that and give us a five star rating. We would appreciate it very much. So again, David, thank you very much for being here. Thank you. We'll see you all next time.   Michael Hingson  1:08:43 You have been listening to the Unstoppable Mindset podcast. Thanks for dropping by. I hope that you'll join us again next week, and in future weeks for upcoming episodes. To subscribe to our podcast and to learn about upcoming episodes, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com slash podcast. Michael Hingson is spelled m i c h a e l h i n g s o n. While you're on the site., please use the form there to recommend people who we ought to interview in upcoming editions of the show. And also, we ask you and urge you to invite your friends to join us in the future. If you know of any one or any organization needing a speaker for an event, please email me at speaker at Michael hingson.com. I appreciate it very much. To learn more about the concept of blinded by fear, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com forward slash blinded by fear and while you're there, feel free to pick up a copy of my free eBook entitled blinded by fear. The unstoppable mindset podcast is provided by access cast an initiative of accessiBe and is sponsored by accessiBe. Please visit www.accessibe.com. accessiBe is spelled a c c e s s i b e. There you can learn all about how you can make your website inclusive for all persons with disabilities and how you can help make the internet fully inclusive by 2025. Thanks again for listening. Please come back and visit us again next week.

The Every Day Novelist
Feedback on Secrets of the Heinlein Juvenile
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