Podcasts about StarCraft

FFXIV is a game where one character can do it all, where you can quest along side friends and build a community to join you in your journey: Rath Games took that personally. Garrett and Kyle sit down with the man who has set out on the wild adventure to defeat Endwalker by himself. No damage is too great, no check to impossible for Solo Only. From his favorite MMOs to his background in Game Development, to the video production process, Rath gives us a behind the scene look at what it has taken to make his journey come to life. Supportourbromance.com or we'll pursue fishing achievements.

Justin's got the week off, so Seth steps in as co-host and the conversation does not disappoint. Doug and Seth dig into a Reddit question that sent them both deep into the nostalgia rabbit hole: of all the computer games you played between 1985 and 2010, what's the one you still think about today? Seth goes back to the PC port of Final Fantasy VII — the game that defined the RPG genre for a generation of players who couldn't afford a PlayStation — and StarCraft, the game that proved the internet was both a gift and a curse once Korean players started annihilating everyone on Battle.net. Doug lands on Diablo, Counter Strike, Half-Life, and Team Fortress from what he describes as the best summer of his life, plus Warcraft II and the legendary dorm-vs-dorm Counter Strike leaderboard that consumed an entire semester. Seth adds Morrowind and the Halo 2 university network wars, including the top-ranked player named Mixomatosis who turned out to live three doors down and was simply a different kind of person. The gaming conversation rolls naturally into a deep dive on Marvel Rivals, Overwatch, and hero shooter culture — the difference between quick match and competitive, the rage of random teammates, why role-locking exists, and why you absolutely should not be trying out a new character in ranked. But first: Doug's mom has a long history of purging spices from the family pantry, and it explains a lot about his childhood. From there Doug and Seth debate overrated recipes (the dump-and-bake casserole situation has gotten out of hand), wage war over cottage cheese, and discover halloumi together in real time. Underrated picks include millionaire shortbread and candied pecans — two things that deserve far more attention. Plus fair food: dirty, suspect, and somehow perfect. A quick Clair Obscure Expedition 33 check-in leads into the episode's new game: AI or LinkedIn? Doug reads posts and Seth has to guess whether each one is a genuine LinkedIn post or AI generated. The results are both funnier and sadder than expected — especially the guy who timed his lunch at four minutes and 37 seconds because what isn't measured doesn't improve. This week's recommendations: Seth — Taskmaster (free on YouTube, 21 seasons). Five comedians, bizarre tasks, Greg Davies and Alex Horne hosting. One of the best shows you haven't watched yet. Doug — The Backrooms (A24). Directed by 20-year-old Kane Parsons based on the viral liminal space internet lore. Chiwetel Ejiofor stars. One of A24's highest-grossing films. Go see it. Plus: what even is SCP? Seth explains, and the answer sends Doug down a rabbit hole he didn't budget time for.   Subscribe: youtube.com/mindgappodcast  Join the Discord: https://discord.gg/T3HwyEw5v7  Listen everywhere you get podcasts  Support us on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/mindgappodcast Merch on Redbubble: https://www.redbubble.com/shop/ap/67768184  

Ignite your taste buds with a Firework Freeze 5-hour ENERGY® flavor explosion.https://click2cart.com/274100cb?utm_source=kf&utm_medium=paid_video&utm_campaign=fwf_bnReddit is where all the real gamers are. Download the Reddit app and dive into r/GamingLeaksandRumors for the latest gaming updates. Download the Reddit app today.Thank you for the support! Run of Show - 00:00:00 - Start00:03:00 - Topic of the Show: Xbox Showcase 2026 Predictions00:16:40 - Tim - The Next Spyro Will be here alongside the next Crash Bandicoot – it's one game from Toys for Bob.00:21:12 - Parris - CD Project brings a demo of The Witcher 4.00:24:40 - Mike - Halo: Campaign Evolved will kick off the show – we'll see classic Halo 1 maps. You will be playing multiplayer. CE will come with MP.00:28:50 - Bless - Persona 4 Revival trailer, further along, and get a Feb. 2027 date – AND we get a fade from yellow to green and a Persona 6 trailer and confirmation of it in development.00:32:02 - Greg - It's time. We see an actual demo of Arkane Lyon's Blade. It's a real vertical slice. No date.00:39:50 - Ads00:41:30 - Tim - Transparent green hardware – controller or an Xbox itself.00:45:58 - Parris - Machine Games shows a Wolfenstein 3 trailer – no gameplay – 2027 release date.00:48:02 - Mike - Xbox is funding Gang of Dragons.00:50:01 - Bless - Studio MDHR returns to reveal their new game. It's not Cuphead 2. New IP in a different genre – either Zelda-like or Metroidvania. Same hand drawn art style.00:53:18 - Greg - Asha announces plans to bring World of Warcraft to Xbox consoles.00:55:53 - Tim - Activision Games – Crash, Marvel Ultimate Alliance, etc. – will come to backwards compatibility in some regard. Not all of them. Lots of them.00:58:20 - Parris - Team Ninja partnership bringing a brand new Dead or Alive.00:59:59 - Mike - We get a tease of a StarCraft game… StarCraft Ghost, a third-person action adventure. It's a teaser. It'll be at BlizzCon.01:03:00 - Bless - As Dusk Falls 2 is announced. Coming 2027.01:04:48 - Greg - Starfield gets a major creation Sunday, and it's not from Bethesda. It's either another Xbox dev making a mission in the creations or another King Gath partnership.01:06:25 - Things we expect. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Ignite your taste buds with a Firework Freeze 5-hour ENERGY® flavor explosion.https://click2cart.com/274100cb?utm_source=kf&utm_medium=paid_video&utm_campaign=fwf_bnReddit is where all the real gamers are. Download the Reddit app and dive into r/GamingLeaksandRumors for the latest gaming updates. Download the Reddit app today.Thank you for the support! Run of Show - 00:00:00 - Start00:03:00 - Topic of the Show: Xbox Showcase 2026 Predictions00:16:40 - Tim - The Next Spyro Will be here alongside the next Crash Bandicoot – it's one game from Toys for Bob.00:21:12 - Parris - CD Project brings a demo of The Witcher 4.00:24:40 - Mike - Halo: Campaign Evolved will kick off the show – we'll see classic Halo 1 maps. You will be playing multiplayer. CE will come with MP.00:28:50 - Bless - Persona 4 Revival trailer, further along, and get a Feb. 2027 date – AND we get a fade from yellow to green and a Persona 6 trailer and confirmation of it in development.00:32:02 - Greg - It's time. We see an actual demo of Arkane Lyon's Blade. It's a real vertical slice. No date.00:39:50 - Ads00:41:30 - Tim - Transparent green hardware – controller or an Xbox itself.00:45:58 - Parris - Machine Games shows a Wolfenstein 3 trailer – no gameplay – 2027 release date.00:48:02 - Mike - Xbox is funding Gang of Dragons.00:50:01 - Bless - Studio MDHR returns to reveal their new game. It's not Cuphead 2. New IP in a different genre – either Zelda-like or Metroidvania. Same hand drawn art style.00:53:18 - Greg - Asha announces plans to bring World of Warcraft to Xbox consoles.00:55:53 - Tim - Activision Games – Crash, Marvel Ultimate Alliance, etc. – will come to backwards compatibility in some regard. Not all of them. Lots of them.00:58:20 - Parris - Team Ninja partnership bringing a brand new Dead or Alive.00:59:59 - Mike - We get a tease of a StarCraft game… StarCraft Ghost, a third-person action adventure. It's a teaser. It'll be at BlizzCon.01:03:00 - Bless - As Dusk Falls 2 is announced. Coming 2027.01:04:48 - Greg - Starfield gets a major creation Sunday, and it's not from Bethesda. It's either another Xbox dev making a mission in the creations or another King Gath partnership.01:06:25 - Things we expect. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Ignite your taste buds with a Firework Freeze 5-hour ENERGY® flavor explosion.https://click2cart.com/274100cb?utm_source=kf&utm_medium=paid_video&utm_campaign=fwf_bnReddit is where all the real gamers are. Download the Reddit app and dive into r/GamingLeaksandRumors for the latest gaming updates. Download the Reddit app today.Thank you for the support! Run of Show - 00:00:00 - Start00:03:00 - Topic of the Show: Xbox Showcase 2026 Predictions00:16:40 - Tim - The Next Spyro Will be here alongside the next Crash Bandicoot – it's one game from Toys for Bob.00:21:12 - Parris - CD Project brings a demo of The Witcher 4.00:24:40 - Mike - Halo: Campaign Evolved will kick off the show – we'll see classic Halo 1 maps. You will be playing multiplayer. CE will come with MP.00:28:50 - Bless - Persona 4 Revival trailer, further along, and get a Feb. 2027 date – AND we get a fade from yellow to green and a Persona 6 trailer and confirmation of it in development.00:32:02 - Greg - It's time. We see an actual demo of Arkane Lyon's Blade. It's a real vertical slice. No date.00:39:50 - Ads00:41:30 - Tim - Transparent green hardware – controller or an Xbox itself.00:45:58 - Parris - Machine Games shows a Wolfenstein 3 trailer – no gameplay – 2027 release date.00:48:02 - Mike - Xbox is funding Gang of Dragons.00:50:01 - Bless - Studio MDHR returns to reveal their new game. It's not Cuphead 2. New IP in a different genre – either Zelda-like or Metroidvania. Same hand drawn art style.00:53:18 - Greg - Asha announces plans to bring World of Warcraft to Xbox consoles.00:55:53 - Tim - Activision Games – Crash, Marvel Ultimate Alliance, etc. – will come to backwards compatibility in some regard. Not all of them. Lots of them.00:58:20 - Parris - Team Ninja partnership bringing a brand new Dead or Alive.00:59:59 - Mike - We get a tease of a StarCraft game… StarCraft Ghost, a third-person action adventure. It's a teaser. It'll be at BlizzCon.01:03:00 - Bless - As Dusk Falls 2 is announced. Coming 2027.01:04:48 - Greg - Starfield gets a major creation Sunday, and it's not from Bethesda. It's either another Xbox dev making a mission in the creations or another King Gath partnership.01:06:25 - Things we expect. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

With the summer games season beginning, this week we cover State of Play items like God of War: Laufey, Until Dawn 2, and the Wolverine demo, plus the Fable delay, 007 First Light, Mina the Hollower, the whole shebang about Directive 8020 (plus some loose Dark Pictures ranking), and the most important news of the week: StarCraft II PTR update 5.0.16.CHAPTERS(00:00:00) NOTE: Some timecodes may be inaccurate for versions other than the ad-free Patreon version due to dynamic ad insertions. Please use caution if skipping around to avoid spoilers. Thanks for listening.(00:00:10) Intro(00:01:19) Some quick pet updates(00:06:37) 007 First Light  |  [PC (Microsoft Windows), PlayStation 5, Xbox Series X|S]  |  May 27, 2026(00:25:50) First Break(00:31:25) Mina the Hollower  |  [Nintendo Switch, Nintendo Switch 2, PC (Microsoft Windows), PlayStation 5, Xbox Series X|S]  |  May 2026(00:42:12) Directive 8020  |  [PC (Microsoft Windows), PlayStation 5, Xbox Series X|S]  |  May 12, 2026(00:42:20) [SPOILERS] We're going to talk about the story(00:58:43) Saros  |  [PlayStation 5]  |  Apr 30, 2026(01:07:36) TerraTech Legion  |  [PC (Microsoft Windows), Xbox Series X|S]  |  Apr 30, 2026(01:10:02) Second Break(01:10:03) Sony State of Play(01:10:14) Marvel's Wolverine  |  [PlayStation 5]  |  Sep 15, 2026(01:15:28) Marvel Tokon: Fighting Souls  |  [PC (Microsoft Windows), PlayStation 5]  |  Aug 06, 2026(01:16:10) God of War Laufey  |  [PlayStation 5]  |  TBD(01:27:40) Until Dawn 2  |  [PlayStation 5]  |  2027(01:28:47) Rayman Legends Retold  |  [Nintendo Switch 2, Xbox Series X|S, PC (Microsoft Windows), PlayStation 5]  |  Oct 01, 2026(01:29:41) Kemuri  |  [PlayStation 5]  |  2027(01:30:43) Stuntman: Hollywood  |  [PlayStation 5]  |  TBD(01:33:30) The Lost Wild  |  [PlayStation 5]  |  2027(01:35:06) Gonna be a big September!(01:37:08) Checking in with Sony First Party sales(01:40:46) Fable delayed to 2027(01:46:02) Ex-Forza Horizon devs announce new racing game(01:49:09) Publisher of Balatro and Abiotic Factor bought by GameSpot owner! (Kind of)(01:55:22) StarCraft 2 gets major patch?!(02:05:34) Emails(02:11:46) Wrapping up and thanks(02:15:24) Mysterious Benefactor Shoutouts(02:17:49) General feelings around this year's big announcements?(02:18:56) Wrapping up(02:22:40) See ya!

Ignite your taste buds with a Firework Freeze 5-hour ENERGY® flavor explosion.https://click2cart.com/274100cb?utm_source=kf&utm_medium=paid_video&utm_campaign=fwf_bnReddit is where all the real gamers are. Download the Reddit app and dive into r/GamingLeaksandRumors for the latest gaming updates. Download the Reddit app today.Thank you for the support! Run of Show - 00:00:00 - Start00:03:00 - Topic of the Show: Xbox Showcase 2026 Predictions00:16:40 - Tim - The Next Spyro Will be here alongside the next Crash Bandicoot – it's one game from Toys for Bob.00:21:12 - Parris - CD Project brings a demo of The Witcher 4.00:24:40 - Mike - Halo: Campaign Evolved will kick off the show – we'll see classic Halo 1 maps. You will be playing multiplayer. CE will come with MP.00:28:50 - Bless - Persona 4 Revival trailer, further along, and get a Feb. 2027 date – AND we get a fade from yellow to green and a Persona 6 trailer and confirmation of it in development.00:32:02 - Greg - It's time. We see an actual demo of Arkane Lyon's Blade. It's a real vertical slice. No date.00:39:50 - Ads00:41:30 - Tim - Transparent green hardware – controller or an Xbox itself.00:45:58 - Parris - Machine Games shows a Wolfenstein 3 trailer – no gameplay – 2027 release date.00:48:02 - Mike - Xbox is funding Gang of Dragons.00:50:01 - Bless - Studio MDHR returns to reveal their new game. It's not Cuphead 2. New IP in a different genre – either Zelda-like or Metroidvania. Same hand drawn art style.00:53:18 - Greg - Asha announces plans to bring World of Warcraft to Xbox consoles.00:55:53 - Tim - Activision Games – Crash, Marvel Ultimate Alliance, etc. – will come to backwards compatibility in some regard. Not all of them. Lots of them.00:58:20 - Parris - Team Ninja partnership bringing a brand new Dead or Alive.00:59:59 - Mike - We get a tease of a StarCraft game… StarCraft Ghost, a third-person action adventure. It's a teaser. It'll be at BlizzCon.01:03:00 - Bless - As Dusk Falls 2 is announced. Coming 2027.01:04:48 - Greg - Starfield gets a major creation Sunday, and it's not from Bethesda. It's either another Xbox dev making a mission in the creations or another King Gath partnership.01:06:25 - Things we expect. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

We gathered up two Final Fantasy 6 Super Fans and sat em down for a chat about their favorite FF game of all time. Yunalescka and Jesse Cox bring there love of all things Final Fantasy, and a massive list of recommendations for the GG boys. From the Opera House, to the World of Ruin, to the beautiful music, this is the FF6 Roundtable you've been waiting for. Supportourbromance.com or we'll pick the wrong dress for the Market.

We've got the surprise announcement of new content coming to The Witcher 3 in 2027, huge price increases for the Steam Deck, a delay for Fable, and an out of nowhere huge balance patch for StarCraft 2.Then Isli and Xya talk about Mina The Hollower, and I continue my journey through Escape Simulator 2 with a few gripes.Here are the timestamps:Intro News Bits- 00:30 PS+ For June- 03:40 Media Molecule's Next Game Rumor- 04:33 Another No Man's Sky Update- 08:40 Resident Evil 9 Gets A Demo- 10:57 Steam Deck Huge Price Increase- 15:44 Witcher 3 Is Getting New DLC- 20:30 Fable Delayed- 21:35 StarCraft 2 Getting A Major PatchWhat We're Playing- 30:20 Mina The Hollower- 48:58 Escape Simulator 2

Competent Conquest Ben, and Dyzerg from Anti-Timing Podcast join me to talk about Memorial Day weekend Tournament for Starcraft the Miniatures Game.Anti-Timing Podcasthttps://open.spotify.com/show/6nEEbjXUhd0NK1lQTBYI8G?si=1988444d9c85491bAnti-Timing Discordhttps://discord.gg/pRBTvHX2VbStarcraft TTS Modhttps://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3662791369We are also starting up a discord server for anyone who wants to join us and talk about Conquest or any other miniature wargames people play.https://discord.gg/ztuD6MUMrEWe also have a podcast what you can find anywhere you listen to podcastshttps://www.buzzsprout.com/2183437Cassandra's Twittertwitter.com/bonktablecassSTL for the Trays used in the videohttps://cults3d.com/en/3d-model/game/conquest-base-and-tray-set-with-magnetic-and-mechanical-regiment-connectorsArt from Nicolette NuyttenTwitter and Instagram are @LibraryNii Website www.nicolettenuytten.comPhotos used are from Thumbnail provide by Mass

¡NUEVO PROGRAMA! Vuelve nuestro formato CAZALORES para repasar la historia de la primera entrega de Starcraft. Desde el pasado lejano con la creación de Protoss y Zerg, hasta los acontecimientos de Brood War, pasando por las tres campañas protagonizadas por Raynor, Kerrigan, Tassadar. Esperamos que os mole. Enlaces: https://linktr.ee/reservademana

Before Wayne Chiang was helping shape the future of poker content at the WSOP…he was one of the best StarCraft players in the world.Not “pretty good.”World Champion.Back when esports barely existed…before Twitch…before streaming…before anyone thought playing video games could become a career…Wayne was already there.Grinding real-time strategy games.Writing battle reports by hand because replays didn't exist yet.Competing against future poker legends, esports pioneers, and internet entrepreneurs before any of them were famous.Then poker happened.And suddenly the same competitive obsession that made him elite at StarCraft…translated perfectly into online poker during the boom.In this episode of The Table 1 Podcast, Wayne “D22-soso” joins Art Parmann and Justin Young for one of the most fascinating crossover stories we've had yet: ♠️ Becoming a StarCraft World Champion in the earliest days of esports ♥️ The original “content creator” grind before streaming existed ♦️ The overlap between elite gamers and poker crushers ♣️ Going broke in poker and rebuilding from scratch ♠️ The insane early online poker ecosystem ♥️ Playing the biggest games online before bankroll management existed ♦️ Becoming part-owner of Live at the Bike ♣️ Helping shape the WSOP Vlogger Program today ♠️ Why poker needs creators more than ever ♥️ How AI, content, and media are changing poker foreverWe also get into: esports history Commerce poker politics poker fame vs actual skill livestream tells what makes good poker content and why “your network is your net worth” becomes more true the longer you play poker.This one feels like a time capsule of:early esports,early online poker,and the weird internet era that created both.

The Roundtable gathers to discuss the key story moments of Final Fantasy XIV Patch 7.5 Trail to the Heavens. From the Alliance Raid to Evercold Trailer, to the big story reveals, nothing is save, so Spoiler Warning. Jesse Cox and Preach are summoned and give their hopes, dreams and expectations for the upcoming journey based on all the juicy details. Did we get a peak at Evolved Combat? What nuggets were hidden in old Dawntrail Interviews? Online stories help us gleam the future? Supportourbromance.com so we can make MORE ROUNDTABLES! EACH ROUNDER THAN THE LAST!

Emperor guide thy aim! Roguelikes and -lites span a spectrum, especially when they come as added game modes to big budget titles that aren't roguey themselves. This week we explore Warhammer 40K Darktide: the action RPG featuring two … sort of … rogue-ish (heavy squinting) game modes: Expeditions and the Mortis Trials. From the moment I understood the weakness of game genre definitions, they disgusted me. I craved the strength and certainty of roguelikes. I aspired to the purity of the blessed permadeath. Your kind cling to your save files, as if they will not decay and fail you. One day the crude biomass that you call a gameplay loop will wither, and you will beg my kind to save you. But I am already saved, for roguelikes are immortal. Even in death I serve the GROGnissiah. Custom RSS Apple Podcasts Spotify YouTube Music Transcript 2:35 - Game stats 4:08 - One sentence description, Non-Roguelike Games with Rogue Modes Discussion 7:05 - Lore Overview 17:33 - StarCraft & Warhammer 21:56 - Intro Cinematic & Satire 26:17 - Character Creation, Classes & Hub World Tour 38:32 - Adventure Mode, Main Story & Mission Structure 44:47 - Procedural Generation (Or Lack Thereof) & Roguelike Credentials 51:43 - Expeditions Mode: Node Map, Scrap System & Extraction 56:08 - Mortis Trials: Horde Mode, Wave Perks & Chaos Builds 1:13:20 - Soundtrack & Sound Design 1:17:48 - Servitor Healing Stations & Imperium's Dark Worldbuilding 1:22:10 - Rankings & final thoughts 1:33:08 - Similar games & show wind down Next episode: Mewgenics Contact us at grogpodzone@gmail.com! https://grogpod.zone Intro music: GROGPOD Theme 1 by Balatro composer LouisF - https://louisfmusic.com/ Outro music: Jesper Kyd - Disposal Unit (Imperium Mix)

The future of war has been evolving before our eyes in Ukraine, yet the west still plans to fight the last war. In this special episode, guest host Noah Smith (@noahpinion) and Brandon Anderson sit down with Yaroslav Azhnyuk (@YaroslavAzhnyuk), a serial tech founder who went from building PetCube to founding The Fourth Law, one of the world's most advanced AI-guided drone companies. Over two hours we cover the technology, tactics, and geopolitics of drone warfare, and why the modern battlefield has already left the West behind:* Yaroslav's personal history and the Ukraine war [00:01:04 – 00:14:01]* The modern drone tech stack: why FPV drones are the new god of war, the future of the rifleman, fiber optic vs. AI, five levels of autonomy, and the eight dimensions of the autonomous battlefield [00:14:01 – 01:05:13]* The geopolitics and economics of drones: China's manufacturing advantage, the drone race, Western defense readiness, countermeasures, and why the gap is widening [01:05:13 – 01:58:57]For those looking for Noah Smith's commentary, it really gets going around the 00:51:31 mark.Yaroslav Azhnyuk / The Fourth Law:* X: https://x.com/YaroslavAzhnyuk* LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/yaroslavazhnyuk/* The Fourth Law: https://thefourthlaw.aiNoah Smith:* Substack: Noah Smith * X: https://x.com/noahpinionTimestamps00:00:00 Cold Open: China's 4 Billion Drones and the Cameras-to-Explosives Pipeline00:01:04 Introduction: Brandon, Noah Smith, and Yaroslav Azhnyuk00:05:41 From Tech Entrepreneur to Defense: PetCube, Brave One, and the D3 Fund00:10:42 The Ethics of Building Weapons: Dual-Use Technology and the Wolf at the Door00:14:01 The Tech Stack: Cameras, Autonomy Modules, Interceptors, and a Semiconductor Fab00:18:47 Fiber Optic vs. AI: The Radio Horizon Problem and $32/km Cable00:25:32 FPV Drones: The New God of War — 70–80% of Frontline Casualties00:28:28 The Five Levels of Drone Autonomy: From Terminal Guidance to Full Autonomy00:41:37 The Eight Dimensions of the Autonomous Battlefield00:45:32 AI Safety and the Morality of Autonomous Weapons00:51:31 The End of the Rifleman? Noah's 2013 Prediction vs. Battlefield Reality01:05:13 China's Manufacturing Advantage and Western Vulnerabilities01:24:21 Policy Advice for Western Defense: Defense Valley and the Widening Gap01:32:54 The Drone Race: Who's Ahead, Category by Category01:41:57 Countermeasures: Shotguns, Jammers, Lasers, and Fishnets01:58:19 The Wedding and Final Takeaway: Be Prepared for WarTranscriptCold Open: China, FPV Drones, and the New Warning SignYaroslav [00:00:00]: Think about this. Last year, Ukraine produced 4 million FPV drones. Ukraine is not the most industrious nation in the world. China can produce 4 billion of these FPV drones.Noah [00:00:10]: Would you say that right now China is now the supreme conventional military power on Earth, given its ability to manufacture and deploy drones in the quantity and quality that you just described?Yaroslav [00:00:20]: I don't think we have all the information to claim that but we cannot count it out, and that alone should be a big warning sign. As I say, at some point in my life I went from making cameras that fling treats to pets to cameras that fling explosives to the occupiers. So that's the short story. And when you think about what your nation, what your patriots are going through, you realize that's the only morally right thing to do is to fight back, and it is immoral not to fight back, and then the choice becomes very clear.Introduction: Yaroslav Azhnyuk, Petcube, and the Last Flight into KyivBrandon [00:01:04]: Welcome to Latent Space. I'm Brandon. I normally do science podcasts, but today we're going to do something a little bit different. I'm joined by Noah Smith of Noahpinion on Substack and Twitter. And he has lots of interesting things to say about drones. And as a guest, we have Yaroslav Azhnyuk, founder of The Fourth Law and several other, drone-related startups. To get started, it is February 23rd, 2022. You are running a pet startup. You're connecting pets with their owners. Let's go in just a little bit of background. How did you get started in tech, and what were you working on before the Ukrainian war started?Yaroslav [00:01:50]: Good to be here. Thank you. On February 23rd, late in the evening, 11:00 PM Kyiv time, my wife and I landed in Kyiv. Actually, then she was a fiance. We came from Lviv, where we were looking at a church, where our wedding should have taken place. And we got into this cab ride from the airport to our home, and the driver was like, “You crazy. Like, everyone's leaving Kyiv. Why do you come?” We're like, “What? Nothing's going to happen. Dude, chill.” And then obviously, eight minutes later, or eight hours later, the bombs fell in the city. It was quite surreal. We probably landed on the last flight that landed in Kyiv, or one of those last flights. My background, I'm a tech guy. Studied applied mathematics in Kyiv Polytechnics, born and raised in Kyiv. My parents are old PhDs from academia, and grandparents too. Like, everything, from linguistics to nuclear physics. And I'm an entrepreneur, so I've built a bunch of companies. Petcube is the one you were referencing. So I lived in San Francisco 2014 to 2020, building Petcube, which is one of the leading, pet device companies in the world, selling lots of pet cameras. And then, yeah, as I say, at some point in my life I went from making cameras that fling treats to pets to cameras that fling explosives to the occupiers. So that's the short story.February 24th: Leaving Kyiv as the Invasion BeginsNoah [00:03:28]: February 24th, I guess a few hours after you, go to check out your wedding chapel, what do you do?Yaroslav [00:03:37]: We had a plan for this situation. So my parents and family live in Kyiv, and we're like, “Okay, this has actually started. The worst has, come true.” And so we basically packed our belongings and got in the car and spent 17 hours driving west. And that was pretty sure most people in our audience watched at least one apocalyptic movie in their life, so that was exactly like that. Like, felt exactly like that. Missiles are falling. Like, there was smoke in Kyiv. Like, my dad and I went, like, to central part of the cities. It's probably, likeYaroslav [00:04:20]: 800 meters from presidential office, to pick some stuff up at his workplace. Because he's, like, the head of an academic institution, so he had to get some of the things with him. And super surreal. Like, the streets are empty. Like, the gas stations are out of gas. Like, we found some gas station. We didn't have, like, spare canisters with us, so we're like, We figured out, like, the car was diesel, so like, we figured out, if it's diesel, you can actually store it in plastic, canisters, and we bought some window wash for the cars. We poured it out of the canisters, and we poured the diesel into that. Yeah, so it was like that. And then, like, helping friends get out, like my friend and his dog. Like, we found Like, my brother was also, like, riding in a separate car. We found a place for my friend who didn't have a car. It was like, yeah, it was like, totally surreal. And we didn't know of course, and you didn't know this will last for so long. You didn't know whether Ukraine will be able to defend Kyiv. And it was like, yeah, very little information and very little insight into future.From Pet Cameras to Defense Tech: Building for Ukraine and the Free WorldNoah [00:05:42]: What are your thoughts with regards to how do you, defend, Ukraine? So you eventually start building drones Like, what is the process to get from there from where you were building, devices that connect owners with pets to building drones, and what other things did you do to help the war effort in the process?Yaroslav [00:06:07]: It's definitely non-trivial, right? Like, I didn't go, to I didn't get any, like, military education when I was a student. Like, normally, in Ukraine, you would, you would go to like, this military school even if you're getting higher education in any other, sphere. I decided to skip that which is like, an unusual way to go. And I never thought that I will be somehow engaged in a war effort. Like, what is war? Of course, wars are over. It's the end of history. So one thing you got to understand about, like, many Ukrainians and like, I guess, it's also true about most of the people I met here in the US, that your who you are in terms of your nationality is a big part of your identity. So when that gets under attack, it's something deeper than just the country you live in gets under attack, right? And I Day one, I figured I'm going to I'm going to fight back with everything I can, right? But I didn't think on day one that I'm actually going to do, weapons. And a bunch of things. We were reaching out to a number of American, congresspeople and senators, and basically advocating for support of Ukraine, for voting for lend lease, which has happened in May 2022, but didn't actually work as expected. We helped start, Brave One, which is now a very important defense innovation cluster, sort of like a DIU here in the US. We helped start, a fund called D3. It's like, it was started or co-started by Eric Schmidt, former CEO of Google. So a bunch of these odd things, but then eventually I was like, “Okay,”by 2023 it was obvious this thing, A is going to last a lot more time, and B, that the whole world is shifting and that there's going to be a new arms race, that the warfare is redefined by drones as platforms. And for the first time in history, you have a platform that is software defined, that can increase your battlefield capabilities, in a in a step change just overnight. So it's like if you were able to push a software update and get all of your Roman legionnaires a new helmet? That has never been possible before. It's the first time in the history of war this is possible. So all of that and many other things like, supply chain fragilization, and the impact that AI is going to have on all of this all these things have become evident to me in 2023, and it's like, “Okay, I should do what I do best, or what I know how to do best, start a tech company, and sort of leverage the global techno capitalist machine, to provide, defensibility to Ukraine and the free world.” So that's literally the mission of the company, increase defensibility of Ukraine and the free world. And then there was some sort of soul-searching and like, asking yourself. It's like, “Okay, am I Actually, I know nothing about weapons. Am I actually, like, ready to make, things that other people use to kill other bad people?”Yaroslav [00:09:36]: When you think about what your nation, what your Compatriots are going through And think about all the terror of places like Bucha, the occupied cities in the east and south, the abducted children, the raped women, all the economic damage that's being done, and the intention to destroy a whole nation, to genocide the people of Ukraine, you realize that's the only morally right thing to do is to fight back, and it is immoral not to fight back. And then the choice becomes very clear. And look, we're just passing the ammunition. We're not doing the actual job. The actual fighters and defenders and heroes are people in the armed forces. We're just support.The Moral Question: Weapons, Responsibility, and Fighting BackNoah [00:10:33]: I have so many questions. Actually, I know you seem to have a question. Do you want to ask anything?Yaroslav [00:10:38]: No, I'm just listening. Go ahead.Noah [00:10:40]: I do want to talk about, some of let's say, the moral issues, like you just said. You endYaroslav [00:10:50]: I think there are no issues there.Yaroslav [00:10:52]: What would an example of a moral question be in this case?Noah [00:10:55]: No, I mean Okay. As you just said, you are creating the tools, but others are using them.Noah [00:11:05]: I was maybe thinking of having this conversation later, but one of the questions is like, is it actually you are going to be building them for your homeland, which you are building it for your homeland, which is I think, very a strong morally defensible position, but this technology is not going to stay with you, right?Noah [00:11:26]: This you will probably be selling these to other people Yeah. So the future is really where the moral issues may come into playYaroslav [00:11:38]: The this question becomes, easier and more complete if we ask this not about a particular technology or particular weapon, if we think that this question actually applies to any kind of technology Right? So -Knife or fire. You can use knife to do surgery and save people's lives, or you can use it as a weapon to take people's lives.Noah [00:12:06]: Cut tomatoes, too.Yaroslav [00:12:08]: Cut tomatoes too.Noah [00:12:09]: Yes, knife.Yaroslav [00:12:09]: That's helpful.Noah [00:12:10]: In Japan, sword and knife, they, call the same word.Yaroslav [00:12:14]: It's like, it's with any technology. Large language models, right? Look at how powerful they are and yet they're available to anyone in North Korea or in Russia.Yaroslav [00:12:29]: That's one side of the argument. The other side is As a maker, what is your responsibility for how the tools you're creating, will be used? There's definitely some responsibility, right? Then How should the decision process look like? Should you, like, try to calculate all the possible scenarios before starting to work on something? Or do you create something that is needed now to save people's lives, and then think about, addressing the unwanted edge cases later? In ideal world where there's like, or okay, it's not ideal world. In a mythical world where there is some one governing party and it gets to decide everything, and there is no other country, that can, decide on their own, you could say, “Well, we need to calculate for all the consequences, and only then, maybe build this building, by replacing this park because, maybe we need this park in the city,”right? So that kind of situation. But when you're in a situation where you're in a forest, in front of a wolf, you first going to deal with the wolf that wants to eat you, and then you're going to go consult Greenpeace. So that's kind of situation that Ukraine is in.The Fourth Law, Odd Systems, and Ukraine's Drone StackNoah [00:13:59]: Enough. Because this is a tech podcast, I did want to spend some time talking about, sort of the tech in that you've developed and what you've been working on. So can you explain, I guess, first of all, like, the problem that you were trying to solve from a technical standpoint? And I think, and then maybe, like, go into some of the solutions and some of the design process that led you from designing, little laser-guided, guiding lasers with a with an iPhone versus Having drones.Yaroslav [00:14:34]: Like, it so happened, that my partners and I, we sort of So I started one company called The Fourth Law, and its goal was and is to Make, massively scalable on-drone autonomy. And then In parallel with that together with my, Petcube co-founders, partners, and friends, we started another company called Odd Systems Which, was focused on making thermal cameras. Cameras, thermal cameras are seeing thermal radiation and are used to see at night. And we're now sort of those companies are getting closer and closer together and we're probably going to merge them. And this group of companies is currently the leading, team in on-drone AI and thermal imaging on the Ukrainian battlefield, and Likely one of the leading, if not the leading in the world. So We have these, like, three sort of business units, which are cameras, drone autonomy, and drones. So the cameras and drone autonomy sell daytime and nighttime cameras and different types of drone autonomous modules to other drone manufacturers, over 200 drone manufacturers in Ukraine. And then the UAV, business unit sells the drones themselves to the armed forces of Ukraine, Ukrainian government. And there are different types of drones. Those are sort of front strike, as we call them, so those are sort of FPV strike drones and the bombers, and then interceptors. And there are different kinds of interceptors. We do Shahed interceptors and we do ISR interceptors. We don't do the deep strike-FPV Drones, Interceptors, and Battery-Powered WarfareNoah [00:16:32]: What's an ISR interceptor?Yaroslav [00:16:33]: ISR is stands for intelligence, surveillance, reconnaissance, and those are basically drones which are which, Russians are using to watch over positions and then communicate where, the targets are coming.Noah [00:16:48]: It's a reconnaissance.Yaroslav [00:16:48]: That's, the ISR is sort of a classical term for a for a reconnaissance drone.Noah [00:16:53]: Are all of these battery-powered drones that you just described? ‘Cause I know that the sort of deep strike drones still have, like Some sort ofYaroslav [00:17:01]: Internal combustion engine?Noah [00:17:02]: Internal combustion engine. Are all the things you're talking about battery-powered?Yaroslav [00:17:06]: What we're working on is all battery-powered, right? We don't do the deep strikes, right? And then in terms of autonomy-Noah [00:17:12]: You can catch a Shahed with a battery-powered thing. It's not Fast to catch.Yaroslav [00:17:17]: No, absolutely. Look, Shahed interceptor, like ours, it's called Zero, it goes up to 326 kilometers per hour.Noah [00:17:26]: For reference, how fast is a Shahed?Yaroslav [00:17:28]: Eight, like, in internal phase it could be 280, but in cruise phase it's, like, 220-ish.Yaroslav [00:17:36]: Yeah. And sorry, I'm not like you can convert that into miles if you're interested.Noah [00:17:41]: No, that's fine.Noah [00:17:41]: Multiply by two thirds or point six or something.Yaroslav [00:17:44]: That's easy. Yeah, I was saying that for autonomy modules, right, we, -We make systems, autonomous systems for frontline, for interceptors and some for deep strikes as well, and then different levels of autonomy. So from terminal guidance, which is like lasts 500 meters, give or take, to autonomous bombing, to autonomous target detection, to autonomous navigation and all of that across day and night, different terrains, different time of the year, different platforms like quadcopters and fixed wing, and maybe some other platforms. So it's quite a wide variety of products. We also have like our own simulation. We have our own training school for the war fighters. And we're about to start construction of two, semiconductor plants to make, sensors for thermal cameras. So that's super exciting for me as a computer science guy is Doing semiconductors. Super cool.Noah [00:18:49]: Like in terms of kind of core drone technologies, you basically are one is an FPV replacement without fiber optics, and the other isYaroslav [00:18:59]: YouNoah [00:18:59]: Signal tracking with interceptorsYaroslav [00:19:00]: With or without fiber optics. Fiber optics Is just like, sort of a communication module.Yaroslav [00:19:05]: You can, you can use classical analog, video link and radio link. Those would be two separate radios. You can do digital, or you can do fiber optic, and then fiber optic Has its own advantages but also adds weight and decreases, the distance and decreases, how fast you can, sort of turn and With a drone. Yeah.Noah [00:19:33]: Do you need AI for fiber optic drones?Yaroslav [00:19:36]: Like you can use AI for fiber optic drones. AI replaces a human, right? Fiber optic is making your communication link more resilient. So those are slightly different goals. Like if you want, you can have, AI controlling hundreds of fiber optic drones instead of having 100 operators for each.Fiber Optics, Radio Horizons, and Terminal GuidanceNoah [00:20:03]: I guess I thought that the key reason that people moved to fiber optic drones was for like electronic, countermeasures. Or I guess to counter those.Yaroslav [00:20:13]: I think that's a correct assessment from sort of a public awareness standpoint. In practice it's somewhat more difficult Because besides electronic countermeasures, you have these issues of a radio horizon For FPV drones, which means that asYaroslav [00:20:36]: I believe Earth is round Some people disagree. But basically if you fly a drone and you have a land station over here and a drone flying over hereYaroslav [00:20:49]: If your drone is flying high, you have good direct radio visibility. If your drone goes low, and usually, Russian infantry and vehicles, they're on the ground and you want to hit them, you need to go low. Lower you go, maybe you'll get behind a hill or behind a forest, and if you're far enough, you'll just get behind the curvature of the earth. You get into what's called a radio shadow. And then That is a real bummer because for the last, be it 60 or 20 meters, you won't be able to see anything and it will be very difficult to hit the target. So to counter that what-- And then the distances that these FPV drones, act on they're, they can be quite large. So for example, here in the US there was this drone dominance program competition, and in drone dominance the furthest distance was about 10 kilometers.Noah [00:21:44]: What was drone dominance? What was that competition?Yaroslav [00:21:47]: Drone, the drone dominance is a is a program started, by the US government, to accelerate the development of drone technology here in the US.Noah [00:21:57]: Got it. And the longest range thing they were using was 10 kilometers.Yaroslav [00:22:00]: Was 10 kilometers, right. In Ukraine, like if your drone doesn't fly at least 20, 25, it just, no one's interested in it, and the usual hits are happening. It was like, okay, many hits are happening between 30 and 40 kilometers, and that's what expected from a regular 10-inch, FPV drone. So at that distance, even at altitudes of like 60 to 100 meters, you might start losing, the link. So some of the earlier AI technology that was fielded in FPV drone was this terminal guidance technology. That was the first product that we ever, launched that helped you as an operator, once you see the target from two, three, 500 meters, you lock onto the target and then, it just, drives the drone towards the target no matter what, even after you lost the visual connection. So optic fiber solves that. However, if you want to go like 20 kilometers with optic fiber, that will add an extra three kilos, of useful weight to your drone. SoNoah [00:23:12]: ‘Cause the cable that you have to unspool as you go weighs.Noah [00:23:15]: It is heavy.Yaroslav [00:23:15]: At first, like the spool is about 800 grams, so a bit less than a kilo, and then, and then think about 10, 10 kilometer optic fiber is another kilo, something like that. That takes away from your useful mass and then now you have like, you need a 15-inch drone and it can only carry maybe one or two kilos of explosives if you want to go, 20 kilometers. If you want to go to 30 or 40, like 30 is probably max. 40 is like very problem problematic on optic fiber. And then the problem with optic fiber is it's actually getting super expensive. So and why? Because of all the data centers for AI. That's literally the same optic fiber-Noah [00:24:01]: We're running out of centersYaroslav [00:24:02]: That's being used there.Yaroslav [00:24:02]: Like when Ukrainians and Russians come to Chinese factories to buy the optic fiber, they're like, “We're out. We sold it out to the Americans.”? That's the craziest thing. So optic fiber went up in price from like, $4 per, kilometer to like, $32 per kilometer in a few months in the beginning of this year. And I'veBrandon [00:24:26]: Claude Code is stopping the Russian drone effort here.Yaroslav [00:24:30]: Ukrainian as well. Yeah.Brandon [00:24:31]: Ukrainian. But I read somewhere that the Russians had grown more dependent on fiber optic drones relative to the Ukrainians, and that's one reason why the Ukrainians have sort of regained the initiative in drones recently.Brandon [00:24:42]: How accurate's that?Yaroslav [00:24:43]: The Russians were the first ones to scale that. I think by as of now, Ukraine has caught up. I think, like, as of maybe three months ago, Ukraine is mostly caught up on fiber optic. Yeah.Brandon [00:24:57]: What percent of damage would you say is in terms of FPV drone damage would you say is now fiber optic versus, like autonomous?FPVs as the New God of War: Tanks, Artillery, and Cost per KillYaroslav [00:25:07]: For our, for our audience, I actually, I cannot answer that question. Like, it's like I know the answer, but I would not disclose that. But for our audience, I think another interesting fact is out of all the casualties on the front line Between 70 and 80% are done by FPV drones.Brandon [00:25:30]: FPV drones are the new weapon of universal weapon of warfare.Yaroslav [00:25:34]: It'sBrandon [00:25:35]: Land warfare, anywayYaroslav [00:25:35]: They used to say that artillery is a god of war because artillery used to cause, like 80% of casualties, and now On that ranking-Brandon [00:25:46]: FPVYaroslav [00:25:47]: FPV drones rule.Brandon [00:25:48]: FPV drones are the god of war.Yaroslav [00:25:51]: Sort of. Dethroned artillery. But it's not to say that artillery is not useful, is not needed. Like, all of these systems are needed. Maybe except cavalry, although Russians still use it. I know, have you seen the videos of Russians using mules and horses?Brandon [00:26:09]: What is the usefulness-Yaroslav [00:26:10]: It'Brandon [00:26:10]: Of a tank in the in the modern-Yaroslav [00:26:11]: That's where we need Greenpeace to say a word, but they're silent. Yeah.Brandon [00:26:15]: What's the use of a tank on the modern battlefield?Yaroslav [00:26:21]: It's diminishing.Brandon [00:26:22]: Diminishing.Yaroslav [00:26:22]: However, I think there might be technologies which will, revive the tank. Look, tank still provides you armor, and armor is important. Like, you still need to armor and firepower, right? Like, you can be an armor personal carrier that provides you, armor. The challenge that currently exists is armor is not very well protected against incoming drones. However, there are ways to do to protect it. We were previously talking about this before the podcast. The CEO of Rheinmetall, recently sort of ridiculed, Ukrainian drone industry, saying that like, there is nothing interesting there, no real innovation, no to stand Compared to like, Rheinmetall or Boeing, and it's all made by housewives. There was like, obviously a ton of memes about this people ridiculing the CEO of Rheinmetall. And one of the best quotes, I heard on this topic is from my friend, Alexey Babenko, who's, the head of and founder of VIARI Drone, which is one of the largest manufacturers of FPV drones. They're our partner. They're using our autonomy. So he said that the drones we manufacture in one day will be more than enough to destroy all the tanks Rheinmetall manufactures in a year.Yaroslav [00:27:52]: Then, yeah, cost-wise, of course, a drone is like, $500 and a Rheinmetall tank is what, probably 5 million-ish or maybe more.Brandon [00:28:00]: Don't mess with those housewives.Yaroslav [00:28:03]: Drone wives.Brandon [00:28:04]: Drone wives.Yaroslav [00:28:06]: That's it.Noah [00:28:06]: There's a classic saying that everyone always fights the last war.Noah [00:28:12]: Yet do How did So from your standpoint, how did we get to the point where tanks became irrelevant in at least for now In a matter of just a few years?Yaroslav [00:28:24]: Look, I think it's the same way, how do we get to the point that calculators become irrelevant?Yaroslav [00:28:31]: Now we have iPhones. Like, why would you need a calculator? Technology progresses and its influence grows non-linearly. It's all exponential. So I can tell you that full autonomy, when you put it on a drone Look, so if you, if you think about a tank and a like, it's not a direct comparison, but even, like, a drone and a artillery shell or like, sort of cost per kill, an artillery shell for 155 caliber, which is a standard NATO caliber Currently market price is about $4,000 per piece. So compare that to say, $400 per drone. That's 10 times more expensive. Account for the amortization of the artillery gun and for how vulnerable it is and what is the sort of tactical, capabilities it gives you as compared to a drone. You'll figure out that an FPV drone is maybe three orders of magnitude, more versatile, more useful, more capable than artillery and many of than a classic artillery. Many of Because there are different types of artillery. Not just, like, one 155. You have mortars, you have all that. But give or take, roughly three orders of magnitude maybe. Again, it doesn't have that firepower. It's not one-to-one comparison still.Yaroslav [00:29:53]: Now, take that FPV drone. When you put full autonomy on that FPV drone, which can be not very expensive, like systems that we're, producing are like, in hundreds of dollars of pure bombFull Autonomy: From Human Pilots to Smartphone-Directed Drone MissionsNoah [00:30:06]: Just interrupt. You said full autonomy Just a second ago you were saying that the autonomy here is guidance, right? It's not decision-making.Yaroslav [00:30:14]: No, I was I was saying that's the f-First and sort of easiest pieces of autonomy that was fielded by us. But if you, if you add full autonomy to a droneBrandon [00:30:24]: He, I think he's asking what does it can you, for the listeners, can you explain What the term full autonomy means?Yaroslav [00:30:29]: Basically, I think a good way to think about an FPV drone is like an iPhone of warfare. It's, like, very inexpensive, very mass producible, very versatile. You don't need a bunch of other things when you have a iPhone in your pocket. You don't have, need an MP3 player, you don't need a calculator, don't need other things. All right? So FPV drone is an iPhone. Or like, okay, Apple please don't sue me, is a smartphone. And then, when you add autonomy to it sort of becomes like Uber or ride sharing. Okay? So what it means is instead of actually being a trained pilot who has this complex remote controller device which requires a couple months of training to actually pilot the drone, and then having to pilot it for 30 minutes, flying towards the target, et cetera, et cetera, now you basically, you have your smartphone, you have a drone, you pick your smartphone, you say, “We are here. The bad guys are here. Go and get them.” And the drone goes up, flies in a given direction, localizes itself on the map, finds the dedicated area where they, the bad guys are supposed to be sees the bad guys, bombs them, return, like, watches, so does a damage assessment, returns back, sits down, and then you can pick it up and watch the video if you didn't have the radio link, right?Noah [00:31:59]: That's a bomber drone.Yaroslav [00:32:00]: That's full autonomy for a bomber drone, right?Noah [00:32:03]: You're saying that no human decision is made in this entire process?Brandon [00:32:06]: That's not, that's not what he's saying.Yaroslav [00:32:07]: A human decision was made at the beginning of the process-Noah [00:32:09]: I get it. I get itYaroslav [00:32:09]: The same way as you would fire an artillery.Yaroslav [00:32:12]: When you fire an artillery, you don't stop at like, 500 meters away from a target and ask it whether, you want to strike or not. That's exactly, a human decision is always made at some point. So when you do that's full autonomy, and such full autonomy is happening as we speak. And such full autonomy increases the capabilities of an FPV drone, which is already, like, three orders more powerful than an artillery shell. Full autonomy increases its capabilities by four orders of magnitude because now you can have 100 times as many people who can use it, because you don't need to train those people, and this is important. You can have 10 times, mission success rate, and you can have 10 times utility per drone because now instead of being one-way kamikaze, it's, it can be a bomber.Brandon [00:33:05]: Now wait, let's, you said 10 times mission success rate, which means that fully autonomous bomber drones succeed in their missions 10 times more often than human piloted bomber drones do. That's an important thing to know.Noah [00:33:17]: Maybe, to push back onBrandon [00:33:19]: They're super, they're superhuman. They're, they' 10X superhuman.Yaroslav [00:33:22]: They're not vulnerable to electronic warfare. They don't care about the radio horizon. They don't lose track during navigation. They are not susceptible to human error when, an artillery shell or other drone blows up besides you and you're like, “Hell no,”like, “I'm getting out of here.” Right? That doesn't happen to an autonomous drone. Like, all of those things. Like, we have, like, one of the brigades that's using our drones with just first level autonomy They literally said that their success rates-Brandon [00:33:53]: What's first level autonomy?Yaroslav [00:33:54]: First level autonomy is just the terminal guidance.Yaroslav [00:33:57]: By the way, we have video of that. We can watch that.Brandon [00:33:59]: Terminal guidance means a human gets it nearby and then the AI takes over.Yaroslav [00:34:03]: The human flies it all the way, like 30 kilometers towards the target, and obviously the target was probably given to that human by someone who's flying some ISR drone, some reconnaissance drone, right? So all the way to the target, and once you see the target from a distance of 500 meters, you do target lock, and from there drone flies autonomous. So just that feature alone, it has increased the guy's, his call sign is Grom, so it has increased his, mission success rate, like precision of mission, yeah, mission success rate from 20% to 71%, and it also increased his kill zone from three kilometers to 10 kilometers, which means there's certain area around the front line which is designated kill zone. Whenever enemy goes into that area, it's almost guaranteed to be to be destroyed by a drone. And then obviously the drones are not launched from like, the zero line. They're usually launched from like, minus 10 kilometer-Mission Success, Failure Modes, and the Five Levels of AutonomyBrandon [00:35:03]: What is a zero line?Yaroslav [00:35:05]: Zero line is sort of an imaginary line of control, of two conflicting forces.Brandon [00:35:14]: It's important to explain these things to a lot of the listeners who areYaroslav [00:35:17]: Thank you for askingBrandon [00:35:18]: Familiar with warfare.Noah [00:35:20]: Myself.Noah [00:35:20]: I'm one of those listeners.Brandon [00:35:20]: You said that level one autonomy, in other words just terminal guidance, just, like, human gets it to the finish line and then it goes over the finish line, increases mission success from 20 something percent to 71%, or something like that.Yaroslav [00:35:33]: Increases the kill zoneBrandon [00:35:34]: Increases the kill zoneYaroslav [00:35:34]: Three kilometers to 10 kilometers.Brandon [00:35:36]: Got it.Yaroslav [00:35:36]: On both parameters-Brandon [00:35:37]: What is full autonomy, dude? AndNoah [00:35:38]: Actually on real quick, can we define mission success and like, maybe in a way, what are the failure modes of missions?Brandon [00:35:44]: I have a guess what mission success is.Noah [00:35:46]: But I couldBrandon [00:35:47]: Get ‘em.Yaroslav [00:35:49]: No, but that's a very good question, in fact, because, even if you fly into the target, well, first the target can be damaged or destroyed. Those are two different modes. Then there can be different targets. A sole infantryman is one kind of target. A dugout where supposed there are some, enemies there is another kind of target, and a some mechanical equipment is another type of target. Radio emitting equipment, which, like, often, like, the targets that the military want to get more than anything else is the some enemy radio tower or something like that or some small radio dish that really makes life difficult in that area, in that combat area. So those are different targets, right? It can be destroyed, can be damaged.Then sometimes, the drone hits but doesn't explode. Like, that happens. And then, there are other failure modes. You didn't even reach the target because you were A jammed by electronic warfare; B, you lost the control over drone because of the radio horizon; C, you were jammed by a different type of electronic warfare that happens way before You hit the target area. It's, impacting your, video receiver. So like jamming on video or jamming on control are two different types of jamming. Then something malfunctioned on a drone, just a mechanical malfunction, maybe like a motor broke or like, whatever. So all of those are different failure modes. Yeah, or maybe you got lost, you're navigate navigating to your, to your target. That happens, too.Noah [00:37:41]: The Level one autonomy, basically you manage to point in a direction.Noah [00:37:49]: You go there, and then the last mile The drone taking over.Yaroslav [00:37:52]: We define this like, I define that but it sort of got picked up by the industry. We define five levels of autonomy. So level one is terminal guidance. It's what we just discussed. Level two is bombing. Level three is autonomous target detection and engagement decision. Level four is autonomous navigation. And level five is autonomous takeoff and landing.Noah [00:38:15]: Those are good things to knowYaroslav [00:38:16]: Those are five levels of autonomy. Now, if youNoah [00:38:19]: I have a question for you.Yaroslav [00:38:19]: Sorry. Like, let me finish withNoah [00:38:21]: SorryYaroslav [00:38:21]: Theoretical part.Noah [00:38:23]: What is Tesla running at right now?Yaroslav [00:38:25]: Tesla?Noah [00:38:25]: No, sorry.Yaroslav [00:38:26]: That's very good point. Like, it's exactly, it was inspired by the levels of self-driving autonomy.Noah [00:38:32]: Waymo's level five, right?Noah [00:38:35]: You just tell it where you want to go, it picks you up, and then you go there.Yaroslav [00:38:36]: I think, like, if you, if you look at the classic definitions of self-driving cars, Waymo is still, like, level four because it still requires even remote, but still, like, human control. It's like if Waymo gets in trouble, there is an operator who takes over and resolves this. So that would still be a level four. It doesn't map directly, but it's also five levels.Brandon [00:38:58]: Can I, can I interject a question here? In terms of an FPV drone that's like a suicide drone that'll just blow itself up killing something, how do what it hit? Like, does it, just transmit back, or do you sort of like, lose track of it and hope it hit? Like, what happens to that?Yaroslav [00:39:16]: That's a great question. SoBrandon [00:39:18]: You need another droneYaroslav [00:39:19]: Like, the current battlefield in Ukraine is saturated with different types of drones. So obviously you have all the FPV drones and last year alone, Ukraine manufactured about 4 million of these, and then Russia's maybe, like, 20% less than that. And for this year, the publicly voiced target was 7 million on Ukrainian side. So it's, like, serious numbers. We're getting in serious numbers here. And then besides those, there are different, reconnaissance drones, ISR as we call them, and there are sort of tactical level ISR where we, both Ukrainians and Russians usually use, Mavic, drone by DJI. And then there are a bunch of locally produced drones, which are sort of fixed wing drones that can stay in the air for much longer than Mavic, maybe, like, half an hour. And then, there are drones that can stay for many hours or even up to a day. And those drones have, are more expensive, have more expensive cameras, et cetera, et cetera. We hunt those drones that Russians launch. The Russians hunt our drones, and so on. But ideally, when you, are a group of soldiers operating an FPV, you'll have someone in your, company, or someone in your platoon who has an ISR asset that will do target designation for you. They'll say, “Oh, like, there's a Russian vehicle over there. Go and get him.”and you go there, you get it, and they're like, “Okay, confirmed.”Battlefield Surveillance and the Eight Dimensions of AutonomyBrandon [00:40:57]: Those guys are watching. They have their own drones in the sky.Yaroslav [00:40:59]: Target destroyed. They have, like, a carousel of drones because One Mavic cannot stay more than 30 minutes. ItBrandon [00:41:06]: They're constantly surveilling the battlefield.Yaroslav [00:41:07]: Almost every spot on the battlefield.Yaroslav [00:41:11]: It's not always the case. Sometimes you will not have a surveillance asset, so then you would launch another FPV just to confirm that there was a hit. Then if you see there was a hit and you're not sure if it completely destroyed, you maybe hit again for good measure.Brandon [00:41:26]: You double tap.Yaroslav [00:41:28]: That's how it works. But I was about to give you another sort of piece of taxonomy. So you have five levels of autonomy, right? Then you have sort of eight dimensions of autonomous battlefield. So what is eight dimensions? It's crucial to understand how autonomy evolves in a modern, battlefield environment. So dimension number one is level of autonomy. What are the capabilities that your asset has? Dimension number two is the platform you're operating on. So it can be a quadcopter, a fixed wing drone, different types of maybe, like, a long range drone or short range drone, but it can also be a missile. You can have autonomy even on an artillery shell or a ground vehicle or a sea vehicle. So all of those are different platforms. Level three would be domain. So it's ground to ground or ground to air as an intersection, or ground to sea or sea to air. They're all, like, all the nuances with different domains. Then level four, would be higher levels of autonomy, such as swarming, drone carriers, drone nests, et cetera.Brandon [00:42:39]: Now when you're saying level, you're talking about dimensions, not about-Yaroslav [00:42:42]: Sorry. YeahBrandon [00:42:43]: Autonomy levels. So dimension four.Yaroslav [00:42:43]: The dimension. Yeah, I used to say I was supposed to say dimension. I say dimension because each of them works with another, right? So you might have, like third level autonomy, fixed wing drone operating in land to air, and stuff like that right? And then operating in a swarm or operating from a nest. Right? Then you have, sort of dimension number five is environment. So is it day or night? Is it summer or winter? Is it, humid, cold, dry? What kind of target is it? Is your target hiding in a forest, or is it, behind a hill or within buildings? So all of that is environment. Then you have, dimension number six is command and control. How are you dealing with or like, tens of thousands of those assets around the battlefield? How are you coordinating that on the higher levels of command? How are you collecting data? All that.Yaroslav [00:43:44]: Dimension number seven would be infrastructure, so things like simulation, data collection tools, security, deployment mechanisms, et cetera. So all those systems have to be developed separately and integrate with all the others. And finally, dimension number eight is sort of distribution. Have you deployed 100 of these systems or 100,000 of these systems? Because those are two very different ballgames. So that now gives you a more broad overview of how autonomy propagates across the battle space.Targeting, Human Responsibility, and Rules of EngagementNoah [00:44:23]: As someone who has done machine learning and had gone out of distribution and had things, go horribly wrong, you were talking several of these, kind of axes of thinking about drone warfare seem like they could be very susceptible to some sort of distribution shift if you start making things autonomous.Yaroslav [00:44:41]: Like what?Noah [00:44:41]: I mean Well, first ofYaroslav [00:44:43]: If the I'm very interested Sort of sort of kinds of scenarios that you're thinking about.Noah [00:44:48]: Like the most obvious one is you, if I assume these are computer vision guided systems for at least the last mile, how do you ensure that oh, well, like you now have some fog roll in or something, and you, the drones just attack the wrong thing? Or maybe, it probably will not turn around and fly back and attack you, but youYaroslav [00:45:10]: Same, the same, the same question, how do you ensure that your mortar fire hits the right thing? Well, it's like mortar fire, give or take half a kilometer could be plus or minus. So maybe you fire one, and then you fire another. So drones are actually, much better in being precise in those scenarios. And I think, to your point, I think five to 10 years from now it will be immoral to use weapons without AI.Yaroslav [00:45:44]: ‘Cause weapons without AI will be more likely to cause, collateral damage or unwanted damage. Same way, it will be immoral to drive your own car manually on a public road because it's more likely to cause, unwanted damage.Noah [00:46:02]: Wow, I never considered that mightBrandon [00:46:04]: Really? That's definitely coming.Yaroslav [00:46:07]: Anyway.Brandon [00:46:07]: No, but that' I don't know, it's an obvious, an obvious thought. I agree with you.Brandon [00:46:12]: I, No, they, obviously they're not going to let you drive once most of the cars on the road are autonomous.Noah [00:46:17]: No, that one, don't I believe.Yaroslav [00:46:19]: No, I think you were you were talking about drones, right?Brandon [00:46:21]: The drones, right. Cool.Yaroslav [00:46:22]: The weapons, right?Brandon [00:46:23]: Friendly fire and collateral damage and stuff like that is all minimized with AI.Brandon [00:46:27]: Here's my question. Take all let's go to level six autonomy. Let's take all of the target selection. Let's take all the battlefield data, integrate it into one big AI, and have that big AI basically be in command of the battlefield And agentically do target selection.Yaroslav [00:46:44]: Be the general, right?Brandon [00:46:44]: It's a general. It's, you've cut humans out of the loop except maybe as dexterous robots, repairing drones and fastening things to drones or maybe something like that because you don't have those robots yet. How soon are we there? AI general.Yaroslav [00:46:58]: The most important thing to ask ourselves is who will be faster to that us or our adversaries?Brandon [00:47:07]: I assume us, but how fast will we be to that? I hope us.Yaroslav [00:47:11]: I hope so too.Brandon [00:47:12]: How fast can we Like when are we looking at that in terms of like horizons years?Yaroslav [00:47:18]: Like technically, it could be done now. The question is of course, there's, some engineering work to be done. The bigger challenge is deployment. Right? So okay, technically Like operation in Iran, right? They, the publicly, it was claimed that I think Palantir system was used for target designation, et cetera, et cetera. So it is not exactly as you say, the AI makes all the decisions, but basically AI goes through all the data you have, gives you these 1,027 different targets and says, “You-- To confirm, please press Okay.” And you look at the targets and you're like, “Yeah, sounds right. Press Okay.”so that's, I think that's where we are now already, or we were a couple weeks ago as we're recording this on April 10th. Another question is how massively deployable it is. Is it, like, every decision being made like that or is it, like, just some of the decisions made like that? And then different levels of command and control. There you have, like, the platoon, the company level, the battalion, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. But the tricky thing here when we get into that territory, the tricky thing is If your enemy is getting advantage of being Thousand times faster than yourself by deploying such systems What do you do?Yaroslav [00:49:10]: You got to-Brandon [00:49:12]: The if the enemy is a thousand times faster than you at deploying those systems?Yaroslav [00:49:16]: Like, if enemy starts deploying level six autonomy, as you call And you have not started doingBrandon [00:49:22]: You're in troubleYaroslav [00:49:23]: Yes, exactly. So you have to catch up. So my point is that it is very important to think about the safety of these systems, but that thinking should not slow you down in developing them because they are critical for your existential, survival, right? And like, one person who doesn't think, doesn't get to think about the ethics of the war is a dead person. That person surely doesn't get to think about that.Brandon [00:49:52]: What would be the safety risk of such a system?Yaroslav [00:49:55]: Of course-Brandon [00:49:56]: Friendly fire?Yaroslav [00:49:56]: Just wrong decisions, right?Brandon [00:49:59]: I see.Yaroslav [00:49:59]: Maybe, these decisions-AI Command Decisions, Dead Zones, and Complex BattlefieldsBrandon [00:50:06]: Skynet AI decides it's going to useYaroslav [00:50:08]: No, these-Brandon [00:50:08]: Drone army to kill usYaroslav [00:50:09]: Decisions will not only be made about drones. They are likely to made about what the humans should do on your side as well. Then obviously some environments are more like Ukrainian-Russian war, where you haveBrandon [00:50:26]: It will have to choose to risk lives. It will have to choose to sacrifice human lives-Yaroslav [00:50:28]: Of courseBrandon [00:50:29]: On your side.Yaroslav [00:50:29]: Of course. And then some environments are just, like, dead, like, dead zones and there are no civilians there, or virtually no civilians close to the front line because, like, super dangerous. Everyone has evacuated from there. But there are other environments which are more like, okay, there's a counterterrorist operation. There's, like, a group of terrorists or a group of civilians. Or like, it's like the recent operations in Iran, I imagine that the US and Israeli forces do not want to harm civilians. They only targeted the military targets there, right? So in those situations, it's a different level of responsibility for that decision-making as well. And then there is just such a big variety of those military missions, and I'm not even, like, well-informed or well-educated in military science to tell you about all those scenarios. We would need to put some general besides me, and maybe a Ukraine general and American general would have told you very different stories about these things.Brandon [00:51:34]: Got it. Can I ask a few more questions? All right. So in 2013, I wrote one of my first, paid articles ever was about how the era of drones will change human society. I was just sitting around bored thinking about things.Yaroslav [00:51:54]: You were way ahead of your time.Brandon [00:51:55]: I said, I said, “The following will happen.”Yaroslav [00:51:57]: It's, this article is real. I've read it.Yaroslav [00:51:58]: It's actually-Brandon [00:51:59]: I said small autonomous, suicide drones, will cleanse the battlefield of human infantry. Human infantry will not be able to stand against swarms of AI-powered, suicide drones. That was I didn't even know about, like, AlexNet at the time, I think.Yaroslav [00:52:19]: You're just an avid sci-fi reader.Brandon [00:52:23]: I'm an avid sci-fi reader, but also, like, it's not Like, there will be a way to do that. It's a it's a nonlinear multidimensional search problem, and you get enough compute, you'll find some search algorithm that will get you there. And soBrandon [00:52:38]: I, yeah, I think that one sentence describes the bitter lesson right there.Brandon [00:52:41]: It's just like it's a multidimensional search space. You search it somehow. I don't know. Figure out some get a grad student-Yaroslav [00:52:47]: Sooner or laterBrandon [00:52:47]: To make a search algorithm.Brandon [00:52:48]: It's not that hard. Anyway, so but then, but I guess the point is The point is that human infantry on the battlefield will be will be gone at the end. I wrote that in 2013. Many people on social media laughed at me for that called me hysterical, said things like, “Electronic warfare will knock all the drones out of the sky.”like, “You need humans to hold ground.”that's something you still hear from a lot of people on social media today. I feel that this article that I've written has never been directionally wrong. It has gotten more and more right steadily over time, and that we're very reading the battlefield reports from Ukraine, where, human infantry are basically guy, like a few guys hiding in dugouts for months, and I'm not sure what they're doing.Yaroslav [00:53:35]: That's on Ukraine's side. On the Russian side, that's just like a zerg rush.Brandon [00:53:38]: The zerg rush, and then they just die. Then, but they have some guys in dugouts too, right? Like hiding in dugouts for months.Yaroslav [00:53:45]: They have. Yeah.Brandon [00:53:45]: Like, but that like, what are those guys doing in the dugouts? Are providing, like, frontline, like, reconnaissance? Like, what are they doing?Yaroslav [00:53:54]: If there is a guy in a dugout with some bullets and automatic weapon, the other guy cannot come and take the that dugout. That'Brandon [00:54:07]: I seeYaroslav [00:54:08]: They are they're establishing control over territory.Brandon [00:54:10]: I see. So that is so there still is a use for human infantry on the battlefield as of today.Yaroslav [00:54:15]: LikeBrandon [00:54:15]: How long will that last?Yaroslav [00:54:17]: I think it will last for a while. This is funny. There's this whole Layer of the modern culture, a modern Ukraine culture built around the war-related stuff. So there is this -Punk rock band, that is called SZC, I guess in English that would be. Which stands short for like a deserter or something like that. So anyhow, this band has a song titled “2030.” It's basically about the year 2030, and the war still goes on as like the whatever, third world war or whatever. And they basically, they, sang about the AI and like cyborgs and everything, but the simple infantry is still needed, and we're still, like, getting cold in those dugouts, and we're still doing our job. That's sort of the theme of the song. And it seems like that's actually what's going to happen. There areGround Robots, Simulation, and the Limits of World ModelsBrandon [00:55:30]: Ground robots will not replace humans in the dugouts soon.Yaroslav [00:55:34]: I'm very much interested in following the whole humanoid robot theme andBrandon [00:55:39]: What about like a dog robot?Noah [00:55:41]: Or just mobile controlled platforms or something.Brandon [00:55:44]: Spider robot, yeah.Brandon [00:55:45]: Everything evolves into a crab.Brandon [00:55:46]: You build a crab robot.Yaroslav [00:55:47]: A humanoid-Noah [00:55:48]: The carcinization of warfare.Yaroslav [00:55:51]: There is a lot of utility in humanoid robots because the world is designed around humanoids. So I would not, like, 100% disqualify the possibility that sometimes 10 years in the future, humanoid robots, will be actually fighting. So that's an actual Terminator kind of scenario.Brandon [00:56:14]: Yeah, in the first Terminator movie, you look at what they've got on the battlefield, they've got flying bomber drones and humanoid robots.Yaroslav [00:56:20]: Look, the cost of large language models of running them is getting so low, you can have basically an inexpensive computer running, what was a state-of-the-art model a year and a half ago, running it locally on a device with an open source model, which also means that the Chinese can have it, the Russians can have it, the North Koreans can have it, et cetera. So that is already possible. And with when we're looking at the acceleration of the neural nets, I would've, if not the acceleration of the large language models, I would've said that I don't think that humanoid robots will be able to be useful in the battlefield earlier than in 10 years. But if you account for the exponential, it might be five years or so. The problem with all of the autonomous systems, and it's like starts with self-driving cars and even with all the AI, like modern day AI agents, to make them really, useful, you have to solve such a long tail of edge cases, that it's really difficult to make them useful. Like we were promised, self-driving cars, what, like 2007, Sebastian Thrun and Google, and even before that all the challenges, everything. And Elon of course told us it's going to be one year from 2014, and now we still don't have self-driving Teslas everywhere. We have Waymos in SF and some other places, but they're still, like, not perfect. So I think, I expect something similar from self-flying drones and fully autonomous drones, and we saw that firsthand as with each level of autonomy that we're adding, there is a very wide distance between a prototype and something that is ready to be scaled to millions of units and something that has been scaled to millions of units. But the race with like AI coding tools is just insane. So things might accelerate very fast, faster than we can imagine.Noah [00:58:46]: I think your point is that with due to this long tail behavior Level one autonomy as you've defined it, is actually very natural. Like you basically are just solving an image recognition and tracking system.Yaroslav [00:59:02]: It's actually interesting that you say it that way, and I thought about this the very same way, and we have this joke that there are like 200 companies in Ukraine which are trying to solve last mile, targeting or terminal guidance. It seems like we're like the only company that actually solved that because even that problem-Noah [00:59:22]: I'm not saying it's, I'm not saying it's trivial, but it's at least something that you imagine given our current state.Yaroslav [00:59:26]: Like us and Eric Schmidt, like Eric Schmidt's companies are pretty good.Yaroslav [00:59:29]: Like, I actually have lots of respect to what they're doing, and they're, they have been practically influential and helpful on the battlefield, and they have good engineering.Noah [00:59:38]: I wasn't, I wasn't saying it's trivial. I'm just saying this is a something naturally adaptive based upon things that we know work, well. But some of the other domains that where you do have to make decisions and you have a long tail become much harder, and you worry about edge cases more.Yaroslav [00:59:57]: Like the more, the more complex behavior you're trying to simulate, the more edge cases there are right? The more ways to do it wrong there are. And then there are different approaches. It's like if you think about, if you read academic papers about robotics, right? You sort of the robot is represented as something that has the sort of sensor input, and then you have three, levels of sort of logics or decision-making, which are perception, planning, and control, and then you have actuators as output.So pre-neural nets, you would do perception output and control all with classic logics, right? Then, with AlexNet and computer vision, you could do perception with neural nets and the rest with logic. You cannot currently do each of those separately with neural nets, each of those separately with logics, or you can just have one huge neural net that just takes lots of sensory data. It's not just pixels. Could be sound, could be accelerometer, could be everything, as input, and just outputs the controls. And some of the self-driving car companies are doing that or like, experimenting between different ways of doing that. So you can also, like, think about that and the way you implement those features, also influences how much degrees of freedom the system would have, right? Like control, you can do it classical algorithmic control with common filters and PAD filter, PAD controllers, et cetera, or you can do a neural net, that was trained in a gym with a reinforcement learning, et cetera. And those would be two different behaviors of a system.Noah [01:01:53]: I-- Maybe my point was just much more high level. It'Yaroslav [01:01:56]: Or you can If you go even like, if you go high level, you can, you can like train to like have whatever, like Feifei Li and folks who are doing like physical, sortBrandon [01:02:08]: World modelsYaroslav [01:02:08]: World models, right, physical intelligence, they're trying to make these big models and sort of understand the world and then supposedly you have such model and you can tell a drone, “Okay, like, go over that hill and like, find the bad guys and then get them,”or “Make me a video, make me a photo of the guy smiling and get back to me.” Right? That's one way. Another way you have like these subsystems, like one is navigation, another is finding the person, another is like getting to them to take a photo. And those are again, very different behaviors. And then it's not that one is necessarily better than the other, and we might have more technological ability to do one or another. But all of those systems will exist. And then again, you should always keep in mind that it's only the not only the good guys that are developing these systems, the bad guys are developing these systems as well.China's Drone Supply Chain and the West's Manufacturing GapNoah [01:03:00]: I guess where I'm going with this back to Noah's original thought with the end of the end of the soldier. And so in order to replace-Brandon [01:03:10]: Or at least the end of the rifleman.Noah [01:03:11]: Or the end of the rifleman, yeah.Yaroslav [01:03:13]: I'm not seeing that very close, and it was like I'm, as much as I'm a lover of sci-fi and all of that and a technologist, the more I try to beYaroslav [01:03:27]: Like the I try to have certain humility about these things, and like the military, domain and there was just so much human history and blood and tears, dedicated to sort of understanding this art of war and perfecting it and so on. There is so much knowledge in there that I don't feel like I even started to comprehend, a lot of that. But one thing that I really understood is that even though drones are now making eighty percent of the casualties, you go to the actual officers, you talk to the actual, like, brigade commanders, corps commanders, and they explain to you, how all of it fits together, how when you're thinking about an operation that involves a couple thousand people to get this piece of land, out of the enemy's hands, deoccu deoccupy it, how it is so complex, it involves, dozens of different types of drones and then land operations and reconnaissance operations, psychological operations and then aviations and tanks and logistics and all kinds of these different assets. So modern warfare is really very complex, and the fact that the drones are the latest, coolest thing, and then the AI is latest, coolest thing, doesn't mean that now it's that and only that right? So yeah. Whoever's looking into that I think should realize that it's not just what the press talks about, that the reality is much more difficult, much more complex.Brandon [01:05:17]: Let's talk about China and China's manufacturing capabilities. So suppose that someone, like suppose the United States went to war with China. AndYaroslav [01:05:26]: I hope not.Brandon [01:05:27]: I hope not as well. And then but suppose that drones were very essential to that war of all the types of drones that we're talking about here, and that suppose that China said, “All right, well, you need X and Y and Z, to make those drones to fight us, and we control the production of X and Y and Z, so we're just going to cut you right off, and now you have no drones.”Brandon [01:05:47]: I know that a number of countries, including Ukraine and Taiwan, have been making moves to China-proof their drone productions that China couldn't do that. Examples of things they might be able to cut off might include rare earths, fiber optic cable that you were talking about before, various other things that where even if they don't control one hundred percent of the production, they control enough of the production that would be extremely expensive to produce it without relying on Chinese sources. Or the market's fragmented enough, et cetera. What do you see as China's key bottlenecks, and how easy are those to overcome in terms of China-proofing drone production in case of a war against China?Yaroslav [01:06:30]: Let me start with a saying that -Although China does not sell directly to Ukraine and it does sell directly to Russia, a lot of Ukrainian supply chains, they start in China, right?Yaroslav [01:06:49]: We're not in a conflict with China, and we would not want to be in a conflict with China. And we'd hope that China stays a neutral power between Ukraine and Russia and the US as well. That said, the scenario that you're describing, everything is much worse.Yaroslav [01:07:11]: Think about this. Last year, Ukraine produced four million FPV drones. Ukraine is not the most industrious nation in the world.Yaroslav [01:07:19]: China can produce four billion of these FPV drones.Yaroslav [01:07:23]: China can make them not drones with propellers, but fixed-wing drones, which go not forty kilometers far, but maybe two to three hundred kilometers inland.

Eu sou obrigado a fazer uma correção. Você disse que Dota veio do WoW, na verdade Dota veio de um mapa de Warcraft 3. Pois eu como era jogador de Warcraft 3, gosto de valorizar isso e tudo mais, e foi o Warcraft 3 com essa ideia de heróis no meio do exército, que inspirou ou possibilitou desenvolver esse estilo de mapa, que já existia no StarCraft. No StarCraft se não me falo, se chamava AEON, AEON of Strife, foi daí que surgiu o Dois Analógicos - Diálogo infinito sobre games via WhatsApp. Com João Varella, Alexandre Sato, Thomas Kehl, Marcos Kiyoto, João R e Marina Andreoli⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠Dois Analógicos - Listen on Spotify - Linktree⁠⁠

Today on the show Eric is joined by Christopher Huang of Narwhal Jousting Club. Christopher speaks with Eric about how computers pushed him towards the restaurant industry, learning on the job, opening Ninja Ramen, why ramen at first, how Ninja Ramen evolved over time, why he decided to close Ninja Ramen last year, Starcraft, opening Narwhal Jousting Club, why they abandoned the initial sandwich first concept Narwhal had, why Houston is considered not a great sandwich city, going the burger route, their burger style, Houston food theories, making things simple, keeping pricing low, goals for Narwhal, food courts, and much more! Got a question for Eric? Email him at eric@culturemap.com. Follow Eric on Instagram @ericsandler and check out some of Eric's latest articles online at Culturemap.com: Houston Bar Owner Speaks Out About Surprise Arrest for Health Code Violations Growing Houston Vietnamese Restaurant Hustles into Hot Katy Neighborhood Houston Hospitality 'Dream Team' Saddles Up for World Cup Pop-Up Restaurant Chef of Michelin-Starred Texas BBQ Joint Pops Up at Houston Crawfish Favorite Eclectic Houston Neighborhood Restaurant will Shutter Bellaire Store

Competent Conquest Ben, and I talk about each of the Standard Deployment for Starcraft the Miniatures Game.Starcraft TTS Modhttps://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3662791369We are also starting up a discord server for anyone who wants to join us and talk about Conquest or any other miniature wargames people play.https://discord.gg/ztuD6MUMrEWe also have a podcast what you can find anywhere you listen to podcastshttps://www.buzzsprout.com/2183437Cassandra's Twittertwitter.com/bonktablecassSTL for the Trays used in the videohttps://cults3d.com/en/3d-model/game/conquest-base-and-tray-set-with-magnetic-and-mechanical-regiment-connectorsArt from Nicolette NuyttenTwitter and Instagram are @LibraryNii Website www.nicolettenuytten.comPhotos used are from Thumbnail provide by Mass

This episode it is just Adam and Danny. They discuss Adam's trip for the Rocky Mountain Open (RMO), the new detachments for 11th edition for a few armies, Adam's frustration with the Starcraft release, and more! Check out Adam's store, Crown City Games: https://www.instagram.com/crowncitygamespasadena

Competent Conquest Ben, Apex Chinchillia and I talk about each of the Standard Mission Cards for Starcraft the Miniatures Game.Starcraft TTS Modhttps://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3662791369We are also starting up a discord server for anyone who wants to join us and talk about Conquest or any other miniature wargames people play.https://discord.gg/ztuD6MUMrEWe also have a podcast what you can find anywhere you listen to podcastshttps://www.buzzsprout.com/2183437Cassandra's Twittertwitter.com/bonktablecassSTL for the Trays used in the videohttps://cults3d.com/en/3d-model/game/conquest-base-and-tray-set-with-magnetic-and-mechanical-regiment-connectorsArt from Nicolette NuyttenTwitter and Instagram are @LibraryNii Website www.nicolettenuytten.comPhotos used are from Thumbnail provide by Mass

While at Fan Fest we made some new friends. Friends who may have not played FF14 in a while, who may have experienced the Fan Fest crowd and energy for the first time. Let's see what they are feeling after the bombastic weekend that was. SupportOurBromance.com or we'll be more angry about Dawntrail.

Welcome to Dev Game Club, where this week we complete our series on Dungeon Keeper. We talk about the various strategies we used to overcome some levels, possession, and units as resources of different kinds before turning to our takeaways. Also: Happy Birthday, Peter Molyneux! Dev Game Club looks at classic video games and plays through them over several episodes, providing commentary. Sections played: To level 11 (B) or 10 (T) Issues covered: a Happy Birthday message, favorite moments in his games, a punishing campaign of distinct levels, feeling the puzzle, the dungeon crawl aspect of the game, trying many different strategies, playing against what the AI will do, disrupting the enemy, exploratory sacrifice for fun and profit, possessing the Horned Reaper and taking out the heart, strategies for moving around quickly, a diversion into the scavenger room, strategy guides and marketing, first-person mode, all the information about creatures, mood changes, exploiting FPS strategies, cheating and fairness for the AI, creatures as resources for tech trees or for combat, disposable units vs conserving units, playing and failing at various strategies, a non-normal catalog, merging genres, potential, supporting the villian theme, do most players finish Bullfrog games, audio design. Games, people, and influences mentioned or discussed: Peter Molyneux, Theme Park, Populous, Glenn Corpes, Mark Healey, Masters of Albion, Lionhead, Tomb Raider, The Descent, World of Warcraft, MysteryDip, Soren Johnson, Black and White, Starcraft, Homeworld, Fable, Majora's Mask, Evil Genius, Hitman (obliquely), Spelunky, Kirk Hamilton, Aaron Evers, Mark Garcia.  Next time: Not sure! Twitch: timlongojr and twinsunscorp YouTube Discord DevGameClub@gmail.com 

We gather the Round Table to discuss the big news and the future of our beloved MMO. Fan Fest announcements, Evercold Trailer, Evolved Combat and more. The "vacation" expansion Dawntrail seems brighter knowing we head into the darkness again. What was the crowds reaction? What was life like online during the big announcements. Jesse Cox and Preach "the big man" return for the big talk. SupportOurBromance.com or we'll never ask Preach to watch Evangelion again.

Welcome to Dev Game Club, where this week we continue our series on Dungeon Keeper. We talk about the weird mix of genres this game presents, and the unique problems that presents to level design and for the player. Dev Game Club looks at classic video games and plays through them over several episodes, providing commentary. Sections played: To level 8 (B) and 10 (T) Issues covered: the genre mix, complexity, narrative genre and setting, Murphy's Law (vs Moore's Law), pulling from their own conventions, balancing difficulty, not knowing if it's scripted, requirements for creatures, needing to read the manual, not knowing what the rules are, explaining things to the player and getting over the hump, what some of the rooms do, knowing when to go, using level design for flow, having a clever level with four wizards, grim places the game visits, dungeon crawling, the impact of audio design on RTSes, a little discursion into dynamic music, musical choices, hearing what your units are getting done, understanding game state from audio, favorite codes from back in the day, implementing cheat code systems, giving players options. Games, people, and influences mentioned or discussed: Overlord, Civilization (series), Evil Genius, Chris Corry, StarCraft, WarCraft, Populous, Republic Commando, Dungeons & Dragons, Blizzard, Homeworld, John Carpenter, Russell Shaw, X-COM, mysterydip, Konami, Gradius, Contra, Starfighter (series), Belmont, Penny Arcade, Daron Stinnett, Jedi Knight, Outlaws, id Software, Troy Mashburn, Adventure, Kaeon, Hitman, Bruce Lee, Majora's Mask, Nintendo, Kirk Hamilton, Aaron Evers, Mark Garcia. Next time: Play more! Twitch: timlongojr and twinsunscorp YouTube Discord DevGameClub@gmail.com 

Dive into the ultimate late-night mystery with Walter Sterling as he welcomes Robert Clotworthy, the iconic voice behind Ancient Aliens, The Curse of Oak Island, and the hit video game Starcraft. In this episode, Robert pulls back the curtain on the wild world of voiceover acting, explaining how video game scripts can be the size of eleven stacked phone books and why you sometimes have to act completely in the dark. But it's not just about the recording booth—the conversation quickly takes a sharp turn into the unknown. Listen in as they discuss explosive claims from a Homeland Security insider about crashed extraterrestrial vehicles hidden inside Cheyenne Mountain, the suspicious disappearances of top-level UFO scientists, and the enduring mysteries of lost Confederate gold. Plus, get a sneak peek at an upcoming Ancient Aliens episode about "Alien AI," produced by former Lost in Space child star Bill Mumy, and hear Robert's hilarious take on touching Egyptian pyramids versus ordering an In-N-Out burger. Whether you are a die-hard ancient astronaut theorist or just love a good unsolved mystery, this episode delivers! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Join Walter Sterling for a wild late-night ride into the strange, the secretive, and the spectacular on "The Other Side of Midnight." Designed for the "midnight misfits" alone with their thoughts, this episode is packed with eclectic guests and bizarre revelations. Robert Clotworthy, the iconic narrator of Ancient Aliens, drops by to discuss voice acting for massive video games like Starcraft, rumors of crashed UFOs hidden inside Cheyenne Mountain, and the suspicious disappearances of top-level scientists. The conversation then shifts from the extraterrestrial to the holy, as Father Jim Ducker—an Air Force Major and Catholic priest—stirs the pot with a critique of the Pope's political stances and shares the heavy moral burdens faced by combat veterans. Plus, flower expert Jill Brooke uncovers the explosive, nitrogen-fueled history behind the military's remembrance poppies, and movie savant Matias Bombal predicts massive box office numbers for a new Michael Jackson biopic. Whether you're hunting for cursed gold, analyzing the pyramids, or just looking for a late-night distraction, this episode has it all! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Competent Conquest Ben and Apex Chinchillia are with me as we talk about the top 3 Tactics Cards in each faction.Starcraft TTS Modhttps://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3662791369BonkCon 2026 Sign uphttps://conquest.longshanks.org/event/30554/We are also starting up a discord server for anyone who wants to join us and talk about Conquest or any other miniature wargames people play.https://discord.gg/ztuD6MUMrEWe also have a podcast what you can find anywhere you listen to podcastshttps://www.buzzsprout.com/2183437Cassandra's Twittertwitter.com/bonktablecassSTL for the Trays used in the videohttps://cults3d.com/en/3d-model/game/conquest-base-and-tray-set-with-magnetic-and-mechanical-regiment-connectorsArt from Nicolette NuyttenTwitter and Instagram are @LibraryNii Website www.nicolettenuytten.comPhotos used are from Thumbnail provide by Mass

Welcome to Dev Game Club, where this week we continue our series on 1997's Dungeon Keeper. We talk about its tone again, and delve into a number of design topics including interface choices, verbs, and level design. Dev Game Club looks at classic video games and plays through them over several episodes, providing commentary. Sections played: Three more levels-ish Issues covered: tonal neutrality vs tonal specificity, constructing a fantasy world, having a clear identity, villainous UI choices, white standing out, a subtle tiling system, feeling like increasing a hoard, increasing the verb space through direct interaction, picking and dropping things to direct them, units you're not meant to care about, camera choices, shortcuts to get around, preferring the zoom level as it was, the magical moment of possessing a creature, more RTS than expected, the early RTS curve repeating itself, not wanting to lose the builder choices, having to research all the rooms again, needing canvas space to paint, not knowing when units change over to you, finding idols and small rooms, economic victory, pincer moves, having the multiplayer options with the meta, power-up timing loops, starting with multiplayer first, how we have time for all this, trading off time with other games or hobbies, Tim the baby designer.  Games, people, and influences mentioned or discussed: Civilization, Sid Meier, SimCity, Will Wright, Firaxis, Maxis, Populous, Lionhead, The Movies, Peter Molyneux, Black and White, StarCraft, Homeworld, Blizzard, Dragon Quest Builders, Minecraft, Thomas Pynchon, id Software, Doom 2, Quake (series), Halo, Unreal Tournament, Ben, Dark Souls, Bloodborne, Saros, Hollow Knight, Valheim, Diablo (series), Mortimer and the Riddles of the Medallion, Kirk Hamilton, Aaron Evers, Mark Garcia.  Next time: More Dungeon Keeper! Twitch: timlongojr and twinsunscorp YouTube Discord DevGameClub@gmail.com 

Pre-Fan Fest special!

For all those who missed out on London, see you in Miami next week!Notion, the knowledge work decacorn, has been building AI tooling since before ChatGPT, with many hits from Q&A in 2023 and unified AI in 2024 and Meeting Notes in 2025. At the end of their last Make user conference, Ryan Nystrom teased Notion 3.0's Custom Agents - and they are finally embracing the Agent Lab playbook!Sarah Sachs and Simon Last of Notion join us for a deep dive into how Notion built Custom Agents, why it took years and multiple rebuilds to get right, and what it means to turn a productivity tool into an agent-native system of record for enterprise work.We go inside the product, engineering, evals, pricing, and org design decisions behind one of the most ambitious AI product efforts in software today — from early failed tool-calling experiments in 2022 to agent harnesses, progressive tool disclosure, meeting notes as data capture, and the long-term vision for software factories and agentic work.We discuss:* Sarah and Simon's path to launching Notion Custom Agents, and why the feature was rebuilt four or five times before it was ready for production* Why early agent attempts failed: no tool-calling standard, short context windows, unreliable models, and too much complexity exposed to the model* The “Agent Lab” thesis: not just wrapping a model, but understanding how people collaborate and building the right product system around frontier capabilities* How Notion thinks about roadmap timing: not swimming upstream against model limitations, but also building early enough that the product is ready when the models are* Why coding agents feel like the kernel of AGI, and how Notion is thinking about “software factories” made up of agents that spec, code, test, debug, review, and maintain codebases together* How Sarah runs AI engineering at Notion (“notes from Token Town”): objective-setting over idea ownership, low-ego teams comfortable deleting their own work, and a culture designed to swarm around fast-changing opportunities* The “Simon Vortex,” company hackathons, and why security gets pulled in early rather than late* How Notion organizes AI: core AI capabilities and infrastructure, product packaging teams, and a broader company mandate that every product surface must increasingly work for both humans and agents* Why prototypes have become much easier to build internally, and how “demos over memos” changes product development inside a tool the whole company already uses every day* Notion's eval philosophy: regression tests, launch-quality evals, and “frontier/headroom” evals that intentionally only pass ~30% of the time so the company can see where model capabilities are going* What a “Model Behavior Engineer” is, and why Notion treats eval writing, failure analysis, and model understanding as a distinct function rather than just software engineering* The changing role of software engineers in the age of coding agents, and why the new job looks less like typing code and more like supervising a rigorous outer system of agents, PRs, and verification loops* How the “software factory” should work: specs, self-verification, bug flows, subagents, and minimizing human intervention while preserving the invariants that matter* A live walkthrough of a Notion Custom Agent handling coworking space tenant applications by triaging email, enriching applicants with web search, and writing structured data into a Notion database* How agents compose inside Notion: shared databases as primitives, agents invoking other agents, “manager agents” supervising dozens of specialized agents, and memory implemented simply as pages and databases* Notion's take on MCP vs CLI: why Simon is bullish on CLI's self-debugging nature, where MCP still makes sense, and how Sarah thinks about capability, determinism, permissioning, and pricing alignment* The evolution of Notion's internal agent harness: from early JavaScript coding agents, to custom XML, to Markdown and SQL-like abstractions, to tool definitions, progressive disclosure, and a much shorter system prompt* Why Notion cares about teaching “the top of the class,” building for sophisticated operators rather than abstracting away too much capability for everyone* How agent setup works today: agents that can configure themselves, inspect their own failures, and edit their own instructions — with guardrails around permissions* How Notion prices Custom Agents: credits as an abstraction over tokens, model type, serving tier, web search, and future sandbox costs; why usage-based pricing was necessary; and how “auto” tries to match the right model to the right task* Why Notion is not eager to train a foundation model, where they do fine-tune and optimize today, and why retrieval/ranking is one of the most important investment areas as more searches come from agents rather than humans* Why Meeting Notes became one of Notion's strongest growth loops: not just as transcription, but as high-signal data capture that powers search, custom agents, follow-up workflows, and the broader system of record for company collaboration* Why Notion is more interested in being the place where collaboration data lives than in building hardware themselves — and how wearables or other capture devices may eventually feed into that systemSarah SachsLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sarahmsachsX: https://x.com/sarahmsachsSimon LastLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/simon-last-41404140X: https://x.com/simonlastFull Video EpisodeTimestamps* 00:00:00 Introduction and launching Notion Custom Agents* 00:01:17 Why Notion rebuilt agents four or five times* 00:03:35 Building for where models are going, not just where they are* 00:05:32 The Agent Lab thesis, wrappers, and product intuition* 00:08:07 User journeys, leadership, and low-ego AI teams* 00:13:16 The Simon Vortex, hackathons, and bringing security in early* 00:16:39 Team structure, demos over memos, and building for agents* 00:20:25 Evals, Notion's Last Exam, and the Model Behavior Engineer role* 00:27:37 Evals as an agent harness and the changing role of software engineers* 00:30:42 The software factory: specs, verification, and agent workflows* 00:32:18 Live demo: a custom agent for coworking space applications* 00:35:08 Composing agents, manager agents, and memory as pages* 00:38:15 Notion Mail, Gmail, native integrations, and tools* 00:39:43 MCP vs CLI and the cost of capability* 00:44:13 When Notion uses MCP vs building its own integrations* 00:47:43 The history of Notion's agent harness rebuilds* 00:55:35 Power users, public tools, and the setup agent* 00:58:01 Self-fixing agents, permissions, and “flippy”* 01:01:13 Pricing, credits, and choosing the right model automatically* 01:09:01 Why Notion isn't training its own frontier model* 01:14:07 Retrieval, ranking, and search built for agents* 01:17:27 Meeting Notes as data capture and workflow automation* 01:21:18 Wearables, hardware, and Notion as the system of record* 01:23:45 OutroTranscript[00:00:00] Alessio: Hey everyone. Welcome to the Latent Space podcast. This is Alessio founder of Kernel Labs and I'm joined by swyx, editor of the Latent Space.[00:00:11] swyx: Hello. Hello. We're back in the beautiful studio that, uh, Alessio has set up for us with Simon and Sarah from Notion. Welcome.[00:00:18] Sarah Sachs: Thanks for having us.[00:00:19] Alessio: Thanks for having us. Yeah.[00:00:20] swyx: Congrats on the launch recently the custom agents, finally it's here. How's it feel?[00:00:26] Sarah Sachs: We ship things slowly. So it had been in Alpha for a little bit and at the point at which is it's an alpha, um, there's a group of people that are making sure it's ready for prod, and then there's a group of people working on the next thing.So sometimes some of these launches are a bit delayed satisfaction, so it's quite nice to remind yourself all the work you did because we do have a habit of like. Being two or three milestones ahead. Uh, just ‘cause you have to be, you know, you can't get complacent. Um, but it's been great that people understood how this is helpful.And I think that's just easier in general building AI tools today than it was two, three years ago. People kind of get it and so that user education, um, there's just, it was our most successful launch in terms of free trials and converting people and things like that. It was really successful, so yeah.But there's a lot to build.[00:01:12] swyx: Making it free for three months helps.[00:01:16] Sarah Sachs: Yep.[00:01:17] Simon Last: It was definitely super exciting for me because it's probably the fourth or fifth time that we rebuilt that.[00:01:22] swyx: Yes.[00:01:23] Simon Last: And I mean,[00:01:24] swyx: you've been building this since like 20, 22.[00:01:26] Simon Last: Yeah, I mean, like, it was even right when we got access to like GPT four in late 20 22, 1 of the first ideas we had is like, oh, okay, let's make an agent that I, we used the word assistant at the time, there wasn't really the word, the word agent yet, but, oh, we'll give an access to all the tools the notion can do, and then it, we run in the background like, like do work for us.And then we just tried that many times and it just. Was too early. Um,[00:01:48] swyx: I need to force you to like double click on that. What is too early? What didn't work?[00:01:52] Sarah Sachs: We were fine to, like, before function calling came out. We were trying to fine tune with the Frontier Labs and with fireworks, like a function calling model on notion functions.This is right when I joined. I joined because, um, we needed a manager as Simon was needed to be able to go on vacation. So, uh, that's, that's around when I joined, so you can speak much more to it.[00:02:11] Simon Last: Yeah, we did partnerships with both philanthropic and open AI at different times, uh, to try to, at the time the, I mean, when we first tried, there wasn't even a constant of like tools yet.We, we sort of designed our own like, like tool calling framework and then we tried to fine tune the models to, uh, to use it over multiple turns. Um, and because it, it didn't work well out the box, I think. Yeah. The models are just too dumb and the context thing was also way too short.[00:02:37] Alsesio: Yeah.[00:02:37] Simon Last: Um, and yeah, we just kind of banged our head against it for a long time.Uh, unfortunately it was always like, there was always like sort of. Glimmers that it was working, but um, it never felt quite robust enough to be like a useful, delightful thing. Um, until I would say, uh, the big unlock was probably like Sonic 3.6 or seven, uh, early last year. And that's when we started working on our agent, which we shipped last year.Um, and then, and then uh, uh, custom agents, kinda a similar capability and that, that one just took longer because we, we just wanted to get the reliability up a lot higher. ‘cause it's actually running in the background.[00:03:14] Sarah Sachs: And the product interface of like permissions and understanding, you know, this custom agent is shared in a Slack channel with X group of people and has access to documents that are surfaced to Y group of people.And the intersect experts, Y might not be whole. And so how do you build the product around making sure administrators understand that permissioning took multiple swings.[00:03:35] Alsesio: Everything is hard back at the end of the day. Yeah. I'm curious, like when the models are not working, how do you inform the product roadmap of like, okay, we should probably build, expecting the models to be better at some reasonable pace, but at the same time we need to, you know, you had a lot of customers in 2022.It's not like you were a new company or like no user base.[00:03:54] Simon Last: Yeah, I mean I think there's always the balance of, you know, like you want to be a GI pilled and thinking ahead and building for where things are going. Uh, but also you wanna be like shipping useful things. And so we always try to like, like keep a balance there.You know, we. We try to take clear, like a portfolio approach. You know, we're always working on multiple projects and, and we're always trying to work on, you know, maintaining things where that have already shipped, like, like shipping new things that are like eminently working well and make them really good.And, and then we wanna always have a few projects that are a little bit crazy. Um,[00:04:23] Alsesio: and what are the a GI peel projects that you have today? I'm curious about, uh, you don't have to share exactly what you're working on, but I'm curious what are things today that maybe in 18 months people will be like, oh, obviously this was gonna work[00:04:35] Sarah Sachs: 18 months.[00:04:37] Alsesio: Yeah, 18 months is, you know,[00:04:37] Sarah Sachs: it's a long time and Yeah. Yeah.[00:04:39] Simon Last: I mean, there's a number of things happening. I think one thing that's becoming more clear is I think like, like, uh, coding agents are the kernel of EGI, sort of, everything is a coding agent. Mm-hmm. I think that's, that's sort of one, one direction.Um, and then, yeah, the exciting thing about that is sort of your agent can sort of bootstrap its own software and capabilities and actually debug and maintain them. And so yeah, we're, we're, we're thinking a lot about that. And then, yeah, like, like another category of things that I'm, I'm really excited about is like, uh, we call the software factory also.People are using this, uh, this, this sort of word. Um, basically it just means can you create sort of like a, as automated as possible, a workflow for developing debugging. Mm-hmm. Merging, reviewing, and maintaining a code base and a service where there's a bunch of agents working together inside, and like, like how does that work?[00:05:28] Sarah Sachs: If you think back to your initial question, like, why did this take so long? I think something,[00:05:32] swyx: I didn't say that, but Yes. Okay. Go ahead.[00:05:34] Sarah Sachs: Why, what, what changed over the three and half years of trying[00:05:37] swyx: it? Exactly. Right. Because most people always say like, it didn't work yet. Then reasoning models came, then it worked.I was like, okay, let's go a little[00:05:43] Sarah Sachs: bit. That's, I mean, that's part of it, but I think the other part of it that I actually think is really what will set notion apart for every new capability is we have like. Two skills that are crucial when it comes to frontier capabilities. One is not letting yourself swim upstream.So like quickly realizing if you're just pressing against model capabilities versus not exposing the model to the right information, not having the right infrastructure set up. That and of itself is the skill of intuition. And the second is to see, okay, you're not swimming upstream. Which direction is the river flowing and what is like, how do we think ahead about the product and start building it even if it's not great yet, so that when it is there, we're ready for it.Right? And like those can sometimes feel like counterintuitive things. Like we can be trying to fine tune a tool calling model when they don't exist yet. And that the trick is to not do that for too long, but realize that there was something there. And we've had a lot of things which like, um, we're just like not swimming in the right direction with the streams.I think we had multiple versions of transcription before we got meeting notes, right? Oh, I gotta talk[00:06:39] swyx: about that. Yeah.[00:06:40] Sarah Sachs: Yeah. Um, and so. I, I, I think that like we, we really closely partner with the Frontier Labs on capabilities and we also have to have strong conviction on, as those capabilities move.Notion is about being the best place for you to collaborate and do your work. And how does that narrative change if the way that we work changes?Yeah.[00:06:58] swyx: Yeah. You told me you were a fan of the Agent Lab thesis, and this is, this is kind of it, right?[00:07:02] Sarah Sachs: Right. I show that thesis to so many candidates. Like I have it as like micro chrome autofill.Um, at this point, like it's one of my most visitations[00:07:10] swyx: because like, is this the, here's why you should work in notion and not open, open eye. I, it's like,[00:07:14] Sarah Sachs: here's, here's what's different about it.[00:07:16] swyx: Yeah.[00:07:16] Sarah Sachs: And here's why. It's not just a rapper. I actually think more and more people understand it's not just a wrapper.[00:07:21] swyx: Yeah.[00:07:22] Sarah Sachs: Um, and by the way, like in the beginning, parts of what we build are wrappers on functionality. That works well, of course, but that's not really the most, um. I would say that's not the product that, that drives revenue. And that's not necessarily always what users need.[00:07:35] swyx: I mean, you know, notion is the AWS wrapper, but like the, the wrapper is very beautiful and like very, very well polished.So[00:07:40] Sarah Sachs: like the analogy,[00:07:41] swyx: like[00:07:42] Sarah Sachs: the analogy that I've been coming back to his Datadog in AWS[00:07:45] swyx: Yeah.[00:07:46] Sarah Sachs: So, uh, Datadog could not exist with, without cloud storage. Right. That it's kind of fundamental that that works. Um, and AWS has like a CloudWatch product, but Datadog is an expert on understanding how people want observability on the products they launch.And we're experts in understanding how people wanna collaborate, and that's really where our expertise lies.[00:08:04] swyx: Totally.[00:08:04] Sarah Sachs: Um, regardless of the tools that we use,[00:08:07] Alsesio: I'm kind of curious how you think about implicit versus explicit expertise. I feel like Datadog is half and half implicit and explicit. It's like they understand across markets and industries what engineering teams usually look for.With notion, it's almost like more of the expertise is at the edge because you as a platform, you're like so horizontal that the end user is not really the same. Mm-hmm. Like with Datadog, the end user is always like, yeah, an engineering lead, a kinda like SRE related person with notion. It can be anything.So I'm curious how you put that expertise into a product versus, you know, obviously it, WS cannot build notion. It's, that doesn't quite work in this case, but[00:08:44] Simon Last: it's, it's a little bit differently shaped. I think, you know, a classic vertical SaaS, like the data is kind of like that. They understand their individual customer very deeply.It's kinda a narrow slice, um, notion has always been super horizontal. And our, our task has always been to sort of balance these two somewhat opposing forces of like, we're listening to our customers and what they want us to build. It's a broad slice. And then also we're thinking about like, okay, how do we decompose what they want into, uh, nice primitives that are, that are really nice to use and we'll, we'll get us like as much bang for the buck as possible.And then, you know. Maintain the whole system, make it all like, like super clean and nice to use.[00:09:22] Sarah Sachs: We still have user journeys. I mean, we still focus on like core. I actually think the failure of our team is when we focus too much on what are cools that are, what are tools that are[00:09:31] Simon Last: mm-hmm.[00:09:31] Sarah Sachs: Cool tools. I actually think that's when we make have the least velocity because you still need some sort of focus on a user journey.So like for instance, we'll all sit down every Friday and look at the P 99 of like the most token exhaustive custom agent transcript and just look at why it didn't do well and cut a bunch of tasks. Like we still focus on like, this has, like this should work. Email triaging should work. Mm-hmm. Right. And similarly, like when we're talking about before building, um, chatting, um, before we started filming about, okay, how can I do PDF export?Well that's functionality that then merits. Maybe we should build a tool that has access to a computer sandbox in a file system and the ability to write code. Right? Right. Um, but it's because we're thinking about the fact that our users to do their, to do their daily work, need to export PDFs, not because we're like, Hmm, I think a computer tool could be cool.Like, let's just see what happens. Mm-hmm. Like we, we have to focus on some user journeys, otherwise we just don't have like, enough strategy to, to prioritize.[00:10:29] swyx: I think there's a lot of like really strong opinions that you've had. Do you have like sort of like a towel of Sarah Sachs? Like, you know, like what, how do you run your team?Like I feel like you just have accumulated all these strong opinions. Obviously part, part of this is your, your token town thing.[00:10:43] Sarah Sachs: I think the TAs working with Service X is, um, you'd have to, it depends who you ask. Um, I think it depends if you're on my team or a partner Right. Or a vendor.[00:10:54] swyx: Yeah. There other people want to run their teams the way that you're Yeah.You're like bringing these things. And then also similarly, uh, Simon, when you did the custom agents demo, you had like, well, we've been using custom agents and here's the super long list of everything that we do. No humans ever read it. Right? That's what you said. I was like,[00:11:07] Sarah Sachs: yeah. So I think for, for me, um, something that I learned very quickly and became very comfortable with was that my job was not to be the ideas per person or the technical expert.My job was to make it so that everybody understood the objective, had a resource to help prioritize what they should work on, and had an avenue to prioritize what they thought was important. And I think that's true with all, all leadership, but I think especially on the AI team. Almost all of our best ideas come from prototypes, from people that have a cool idea because they saw a user problem, and it's a huge disservice if all of those ideas have to pass, like the sniff test of what me and a product partner or Simon and Ivan decided were the direction, right?Because a lot of what we're doing is leaning into capabilities, so. I think that's the first thing is like, I don't really view like the role of engineering leadership as like, uh, hierarchical, nor has it ever been, but especially now, like very willing to change direction based on, um, like proof is in the pudding.Yeah. And like, and I think we have rebuilt our harness three or four times. And when you do that, then the second rule of engineering leadership is like you need to build a team that's comfortable deleting their own code and is very low ego and is driven by what's best for the company. And, um, doesn't write design docs because they think it's their promotion packet.Right. And that's a culture that notion had long before I joined, but like our willingness to just swarm on different problems and um, redo things that we've built before because something has changed. Like, there's a lot of friction that can happen at companies when you do that. And it doesn't happen at Notion.And because it doesn't happen when new people join. Like they don't wanna be the ones that are saying, we shouldn't do this. I wrote that code. So then it's, you know, you, you create a culture that everyone thoughts and that culture comes directly, I think from Simon and Ivan though, um, because they're very open-minded.[00:12:50] swyx: Anything that you,[00:12:50] Simon Last: you'd add? I'm not a manager, like, like, like Sarah is. Um, a lot of my role is really to try to think a little bit ahead, make sure that we're, we're building on the right capabilities and then like the prototyping stuff. And yeah, it's really, really critical to always just be starting again.It's like, okay, this is new thing. What does this mean? What if we just rethought everything or wrote everything? And so I, I'm, I'm basically just doing that in a loop every six months.[00:13:16] swyx: Yeah. Do you believe in internal hackathons for this stuff?[00:13:19] Sarah Sachs: I think there's like two different versions. So one is like, we just have a, a, a solid bench of senior engineers that come and go on what we call the Simon Vortex and Productionizing what we built, right?Because when you're in the Simon Vortex, the velocity is super high. The direction changes daily, and it's meant to be like the equivalent of a SC Works lab. We don't need to do hackathons for that. We need to have senior engineers that we trust to come in and out of those projects. For instance, like management boundaries are really loose.Like you report to him, but you work for her right now. Yeah. That's something that when we hire managers, it's important they don't care about because we tend to form more structures. Yeah. Don't be too[00:13:54] swyx: territorial.[00:13:55] Sarah Sachs: We form more. It's after we ship things, not not before, just historically. Um, the second thing is we do have companywide hackathons.Actually we just had our demos day for the hackathon we had last week this morning. That's more for people that aren't directly working on the project, feeling like they have the time to pause and learn how to make themselves more productive or how they would use notion custom agents to build something.Or part of the hackathon was actually encouraging everyone across the company to build their own agentic tool loop, calling from scratch. Follow like an every blog post on how to do what I think because we want[00:14:26] swyx: just with the compound engineering one. Yeah.[00:14:28] Sarah Sachs: We want everyone to use cloud code in the company or whatever the coding agent they please and understand that fundamental.So we set aside a day and a half. We're all leadership, encourage everyone on their teams across the company to do it. So we have hackathons like that. I would say like kind of facetiously, like everything we build is a little bit like a hackathon until it graduates and puts on big boy pants and as a product ops rollout leader and has a assigned data scientists and stuff like that,[00:14:54] swyx: security review enterprise stuff,[00:14:56] Sarah Sachs: actually security reviews one of the things that we bring in first because it just slows us down way more and, um, causes a lot of tension and they build better product if they're involved early.So, um, that is probably the first person to get involved in something that's the[00:15:09] swyx: right PR approved answer.[00:15:10] Sarah Sachs: No, but it's not just PR approved. It like, um, um, it's[00:15:13] swyx: actually real. It's actually real. It's like, um, I'm just saying scar[00:15:15] Sarah Sachs: tissue.[00:15:15] swyx: Yeah,[00:15:16] Sarah Sachs: because like, you know, my background's also, I worked at Robinhood for a number of years.Yes. So like, uh, compliance and things like that, um, are a little bit more, you learn the hard way when it doesn't come naturally.[00:15:26] Simon Last: Yeah. I think the. The hackathon is really important for uplifting the general population, but like, if that's the only way you can build new things, you're kind of toast. I mean, it, it has to be like the daily processes, like, you know, building these new things.Um, and it has to be about, I think like, I think in the AI era a lot more leverage accumulates to the most curious and excited people. And so it's like we're all about just like activating that energy. You know, like if someone's protesting something on the weekend that they're excited about and it's important, that should be the main thing that we're doing.Yeah. Um, it's not a hackathon that we schedule once a quarter, it's just like, yeah. Daily process. Part of the culture.[00:16:02] Sarah Sachs: I mean, that's how we shift image generation and notion now. It was always this thing that would be kind of nice to have, but it wasn't really clear where that was necessarily aligned in product priorities.It'd be a lot of work. And we had someone on the database collections team, Jimmy, who was like. I really wanna do image generation for cover photos and inside notion. And we're like, if you wanna build it, like it's, do it please. Like we encourage you. We gave ‘em all the resources of working directly with Gemini and being able to like track the token usage and it working through endpoints.We gave them eval, support, everything, and then became a, a full project.[00:16:34] Alsesio: Yeah.[00:16:35] Sarah Sachs: That's why you can't have like ego as a, a leader. Like that's, that's how we work.[00:16:39] Alsesio: What's the size of the team today, both engineering and overall?[00:16:43] Sarah Sachs: I manage, uh, the team. That's what we'll call it. Core AI capabilities and infrastructure.That's about 50 people. But then we have per i partner teams that do packaging. So how it shows up in the corner chat versus custom agents versus meeting notes, that's another 30, 40 people. And, and then every team that has a product service at Notion that a user can interface with owns the tool that the agent interfaces with the editor team.The team that did CRDT for offline mode is the same team that handles how two agents, um, edit competing blocks. Mm-hmm. Right? It's the same problem. The team that built the underlying SQL engine is the same team that owns how the agent asks it to run a SQL query, and it does it performantly. And so from that regard, anyone working on product engineering is tasked with making them work for customers that are humans and agents because over time the majority of our traffic will be coming from agencies using in our interface, not humans.And so. Our objective is to make it so that the whole product org is building for agents.[00:17:40] Alsesio: Yeah. How has it changed internally? The activation bar is kind of lowered a lot. Like anybody can kind of create a prototype very, somewhat easily, especially if you're like an existing code base. Have you raised the bar on like what type of prototype people need to bring forward to gonna be taken?Not like seriously, but like, you know what I[00:17:58] Simon Last: mean? Yeah. I think the bar is lowered in many ways. Be like, one thing our, uh, our team built that is really cool is our, uh, our, our design team made a whole separate GitHub repo, uh, called the, the design Playground. And it's basically just to create a bunch of like, like helper components and you, uh, for, for quickly a throwing together UIs.And it's become like actually quite sophisticated. Like it has like an agent in there and like, uh, that's pretty fun. So like, we pretty much, like, they don't do mocks, they just make like, like full, full prototypes.[00:18:27] swyx: Here it is. It works.[00:18:28] Simon Last: They give you like a u rl. They're like, okay, all right. So we have to make the, like the real production version of that.Um, and then for engineers. A prototype looks like just making it a feature flag that actually works. Like that's sort of the bar.[00:18:39] Sarah Sachs: Something to understand that's really unique about notion. One of the reasons I joined we're super lucky is no one uses Notion in their job as much as people that work at Notion.[00:18:46] Simon Last: Of course.[00:18:47] Sarah Sachs: So I think there's very few companies, maybe if you worked on Chrome I guess, but like everything that we ship, we ship internally first and get a lot of really quick feedback. And also sometimes our dev instance is totally borked and you have to change a bunch of flags to get things done. And that's kind of like, but everyone, so people that do it ticketing, people that do supply chain procurement, recruiting, everyone is using the same instance of notion with like a lot of flags on for these prototypes people build.Um, and so we have this, Brian Levin, one of the designers on our team, I think evangelize this concept of demos over memos.[00:19:18] swyx: Ooh, too[00:19:20] Sarah Sachs: good. Um, which has been, uh, very good for building demos, and I think it's put a big pressure point on us to have really strong product conviction, because if anything can be demoed, you really need a strong filter of making sure that if you know, you're doing X amount of work, you're making the, you're, you're focusing on one tower, you're not just building a really flat hill.Right. That's actually where I think there has to be more conviction from our PMs, um, and our designers and, and well, the company really to have conviction of what journey we're going on.[00:19:52] Simon Last: But overall, I feel like it works pretty well. Like people, almost all the engineers have good enough taste to realize that like, this prototype doesn't actually make sense in the product, or, or it does.So it's not that common that I would see a prototype. It's like, oh, this makes no sense. Mm-hmm. It's like, you know, people are doing reasonable things and, and, and then it's just a matter of. Which things we build first and then often just, just figuring out how to turn it on and off. There's our, in the, in our like experimental chat ui, there's this, there's probably like, like a hundred check boxes in there.[00:20:22] Sarah Sachs: Kills me[00:20:23] Simon Last: the things you could turn on and off.[00:20:25] Sarah Sachs: Uh, but I think that, okay, so that is kind of true, Simon, but like being the person that manages the evals team, like there is a level of intensity that it adds to the platform team. So, you know, if we're gonna do image generation and notion, all of a sudden the way that we do attachments and the way that we, um, our LLM completion like cortex talks and expects tokens back and now it's getting images back.Like there's a lot of platform work that we do need to, like solidify a little bit. So sometimes it'll be in dev for a couple weeks before it makes it to prod just because we still have to like, make it robust, make it HIPAA compliant, ZDR compliant, figure out the right contracting with the vendor, whatever it is.And we need to eval it because we want the team. To still maintain what they build. That's the one thing is like if we have a bunch of prototypes, it can't just be like a small group of people that then maintain whatever end prototypes. So we have invested a lot of people in an eval and model behavior understanding teams that, we call it agent dev velocity.So your dev velocity building agents can be faster if we invest in that platform. And so we have a whole org dedicated to Asian, um, platform velocity so that you can build your own eval and then maintain it once you ship it. So if a new model release comes out and we, every[00:21:38] swyx: team maintains their own eval,[00:21:40] Sarah Sachs: we maintain the eval framework.Every team owns their own evals and a lot of them we've integrated to Optin, to ci, or we run them nightly and we have a team, uh, a custom agent that triggers to a team to look at the major failures. That's really critical because if we have like all these different surfaces now, a lot of it's on the same agent harness, so it's easier to maintain.It's just packaging of different agent harnesses, but new functionality of the agent. Let's say that like we wanna update like. Uh, you know, they deprecated, sonnet, um, four or whatever it is and we need to auto update. Are[00:22:11] swyx: they already? That's so, okay. Yeah. Actually wasn't that long ago.[00:22:14] Alsesio: Theywere[00:22:14] Alsesio: just 3.5.[00:22:15] Sarah Sachs: 3.537. Just got deprecated.[00:22:18] swyx: 3 7, 5 0.2 or, yeah. No,[00:22:20] Sarah Sachs: it's not. 5.2 is five point. Five point no. Yeah, five four is 40% more expensive than five two. So if they deprecated five two, you would hear they can, you would hear from me about that one. Um, but, uh, another conversation to have.[00:22:35] swyx: I have a cheeky evals question for you.Have you noticed any secret degradation from any of the major model providers?[00:22:40] Sarah Sachs: Secret degradation,[00:22:42] swyx: like. During the War Bay, when it's high traffic, it suddenly gets dumber.[00:22:47] Sarah Sachs: Yeah. I mean, not just between the, I mean, we definitely notice flakiness, we've definitely noticed, particularly for some providers, that things are slower during working hours and[00:22:57] swyx: there's a latency argument.Yes. Not a quality argument.[00:22:59] Sarah Sachs: No. I think the quality difference that's interesting is, um, even though companies that say they're selling the same, a, it's really into like quanti quantization, but like companies that say they're selling the same model through different vendors, whether it be through first party or Bedrock, Azure, et cetera.We do see different qualities sometimes, and that's not necessarily what's advertised.[00:23:21] swyx: Yeah. Kidney went to the point of like, if we, they shipped like this, like eval across all the providers and it was like very obvious we were secret equalizing and it was very,[00:23:28] Sarah Sachs: yeah. But[00:23:29] swyx: that's very embarrassing.[00:23:30] Sarah Sachs: You know, um, we hire Subprocess to figure that out for us.So we just wanna understand where it's regressing or where it's optimized. And sometimes we're okay with regressions that optimize latency if they're the appropriate regressions. Our job is to make sure we have the evals to understand the changes that are important to us. And even like when we're partnering with labs on pre-releasees of models, they'll send us multiple snapshots.And this is less about quantization, but more just regressions. Like they have shipped models that were not the snapshots that we wanted, and they have changed the snapshots that they shipped based on the feedback that we give. Because our feedback tends to be more enterprise work focused and not coding agent focused.And definitely those can be bummers, like, you know, uh, we know that this wasn't the version you wanted, but we'll help you make it work. I mean, we always make it work, but that definitely happens.[00:24:16] Alsesio: Yeah. Do you have, um, failing evals that you're just hoping, oh, that will have success eventually when a good model comes out?[00:24:23] Sarah Sachs: Uh, I mean, yeah. So I think. I mean, I could talk about this for 60 minutes, so I will limit myself. I think it's a real issue when people say evals and it's just like, that's quality, that's like unit, I mean, it's like saying testing. It's not just unit tests, right? So. We have the equivalent of unit test.Regression test. Those live in ci, those have to pass a certain percent, you know, within some stochastic error rate. Then we have, as you're building a product, evals of these aren't passing right now, and this is launch quality. So we have a report card and we need to, on these categories, you know, be it 80 or 90% of all of these user journeys to launch, and then what we have what we call frontier or headroom evals, where we actively wanna be at 30% pass rate.And that's actually been a effort that we took in partnership with philanthropic and OpenAI in the past maybe two or three months, because we actually hit a point where our evals were saturated and we weren't able to really give insightful feedback other than it wasn't worse. And not only is that not helpful for our partners, it's not helpful for us to understand where the stream is going.You know, going back to that analogy. And so we spent a lot of time thinking about. What notions last exam looks like, right? Mm-hmm. Not just humanities, last exam. Ooh, notions last exam. Mm-hmm. And, um, there's a lot of, you know, dreams about what that would look like. I know we've talked a lot about benchmarking, um, swix, but, uh, yeah.Notions last exam is a big thing inside the company and we have people, full-time staff to it exclusively. Mm. We have a data scientist, a model behavior engineer, and an full-time, um, evals engineer just dedicated to the evals that we pass 30% of the time.[00:25:56] swyx: What you're hiring for[00:25:57] Sarah Sachs: MBEs? I am hiring[00:25:58] swyx: What is an MBEA[00:25:59] Sarah Sachs: model?Behavior Engineer Model. Behavior engineers started with a title data specialist before I joined when they were working with Simon on like, uh, Google Sheets and like Simon just needed someone to look through Google Sheets and say, yes, no, this looks bad. This looks good. Right? And so we hired people with kind of diverse linguistics background.We had like a linguistics PhD dropout. Mm-hmm. And a Stanford ate new grad. And they're amazing. And they formed a new function basically. And over time we've built a whole team, um, with a manager who's now kind of reinventing what that role is with coding agents. So they used to be kind of manually inspecting code.Now they're primarily building agents that can write evals for themselves or LLM judges. There's a really funny day I can send you the picture where Simon, about a year and a half ago, was teaching them how to use GitHub. Um, and they're on the whiteboard and it was like, okay, I think it would be so much faster if our data specialists learned how to use GitHub and like learned how to commit these things in Dakota.And, and that was then and now I think, you know, coding has been a lot more accessible. Um, but moving forward it's this mix of like data scientist PM and prompt engineer because there's craft in understanding like even like what models can and can't do things. How do we define like that headroom? How do we define like what a good journey is?Um, is this model better or not? Why is this failing? There's some qualitative work, but then there's also like a lot of instinct and taste to it, and that's not necessarily software engineering. And so we have like very firm conviction and we have had for a number of years now that that is its own career path and we have always welcomed the misfits, so to speak.So we really firmly believe that you don't need an engineering background to be the best at this job. And that's what's quite unique about this particular role.[00:27:37] Simon Last: Yeah, this is something that I've been pretty excited about recently is we made an effort basically to treat the eval system as like an agent harness.So if you think about it, like, you know, you should be able to have an agent end-to-end, download a dataset, run an eval, iterate on a failure, debug, and, and then implement a fix. And ultimately you should be able to, you know, drive the full time process with a human sort of observing the, you know, the outer uh, system.So yeah, we went, went pretty hard on that. And that's, that's worked extremely well so far. It's like basically just to turn it into a coding agent, uh, uh, problem.[00:28:11] swyx: Your coding agent or just whatever[00:28:13] Simon Last: harness No coding agent. Yeah, code, cloud code. It should be totally general. Yeah. I think if it would be a mistake to like, like fix it on any, any particular coding agent.At the end of the day, it's just like CLI tools.[00:28:21] Sarah Sachs: It's like the same way that you would've a coding agent write the unit test. You should have a coding agent write the eval.[00:28:26] swyx: Yeah.[00:28:26] Sarah Sachs: But there's a lot of supervision in that still. We just don't believe that supervision has to come from software engineers because a lot of it is like, um, kind of you XREE and whatever, and these are the people that also triage failures and tell us where we should be investing next.[00:28:40] swyx: Yeah. I'm gonna go ahead and ask a spicy question. Is there a data, there are no software engineers at Notion.[00:28:46] Simon Last: Um,[00:28:46] Sarah Sachs: what does it mean to be a software engineer?[00:28:47] swyx: Exactly.[00:28:48] Simon Last: I mean, I think the way things are going is like we're on some continuum where. If, if you look back three years ago, humans were typing all the code and then we had auto complete, you're typing list of the code.Then we had sort of like filling agents, filling lines, and now we're getting into like agents doing longer range tasks where you can debug and implement a fix and then verify it works and you know, get your, get your PR even like, like Merion deployed. I think we're sort of just moving up the abstraction ladder and then the human role becomes more about observing and maintaining the outer system.There's a string of agents flowing through, like me prs what's going off the rails. Like what do I need to approve? Is there like a learning or memory mechanism that that works? So it's kind of a hard engineering problem. There's a, you know, there's, there's a lot to do there. I think we're just sort of moving up stack[00:29:34] Sarah Sachs: the same transition machine learning engineers have made, right?Like I haven't looked at a PR curve in a while.[00:29:39] swyx: Yeah. You used to do this stuff and now, um, auto research can do it,[00:29:42] Sarah Sachs: right? Like I think it depends on what you define as a software engineer.[00:29:46] swyx: Yes. It's, that's changing for sure.[00:29:49] Sarah Sachs: I think every software engineer in notion this summer went through like this, um, sheer, um, one of our engineering leads of the company called it, like every software engineer is going through the, the, uh, identity crisis that every manager goes through, where all of a sudden they realize their ability to write code is less important than their ability to delegate in context switch.And I think that is a transition out of being a software engineer. But[00:30:12] Simon Last: yeah. Yeah, there's a critical difference to being a manager, which is that like, it is actually very deeply technical. The problem, you know, humans are very like, like, like fuzzy and you can't like treat a team of humans like a, like a rigorous system where like, you know, prs like, like flow through and can be in like a block status and then what happens when they're blocked, right.With a set of agents, you actually can do that. And, and, and I think it's actually, there's a lot of interesting technical rigor that that goes into that it's like it's a technical design problem. Ultimately.[00:30:42] Alsesio: What is the design of the software factory that you're building?[00:30:46] Simon Last: Yeah, I mean, I think we're. Trying a lot of different things.I mean, ultimately you want to design a system that requires as little human intervention as possible, but like still maintaining the in variance that, that you care about. So yeah, we're exploring a lot different ideas there. I mean, I think I could talk about a few things I think are important there.Like, one thing I think is really important is, um, having some kind of like specification layer you can just commit marked on files. Mm-hmm. That works pretty well, but[00:31:15] swyx: it's nice to be notion man. I'm just saying like the spec, like Yeah. The natural home for specs is notion.[00:31:21] Simon Last: Yeah. Right. It can be a database of pages.Yeah. I mean, it needs to be something that is, you know, human readable and I viewable and I think that's pretty key. Another really key component is like the, the self verification loop. Yes. You need really, really good testing layers, basically. And that's a really deep, uh, uh, problem. But by getting that right, you know, and then, and then it's kinda like the workflow of like.What happens when there's a bug? How does it flow into the system? Like, is it like a subagent working on it? How does it make a PR and how does that get reviewed? And me, and then, you know, so there's like the, the flow or process.[00:31:56] swyx: Yeah. Cool. Uh, you know, one thing we did work out before you guys came in was this demo or this[00:32:01] Simon Last: agents[00:32:02] swyx: agent demo.Uh,[00:32:03] Simon Last: so every,[00:32:04] Alsesio: every time we do an episode, we try the product. Right. I don't think there's ever been an episode that I haven't tried. Yeah. Um,[00:32:11] swyx: and we, we try, try is a, a big word. Like since day one lane space has been on Notion, but this is the, this is the net new thing. Yes.[00:32:18] Alsesio: So this is for Nel Labs, which is the space we're in.So next week we're opening applications for tenants. So there's a web form, let me, we got this form done here. Uh, so, uh, before. Uh, the workflow would be I get an email, then I look at the person. It was like, should I spend time talking to this person? Then I respond, they respond back. So I build this. So the name it came up for on its own.Can you maybe h how do, how does it come up with its own name?[00:32:43] Simon Last: Yeah, that's a pretty app name. It's, it, it is just a random, it's a random, a name generator.[00:32:47] Alsesio: Oh, that's funny. It just came,[00:32:49] Simon Last: the fact that it picked that is, is kind of hilarious. I'm pretty sure it's just determined,[00:32:54] Sarah Sachs: resilient collector. I, I think I've never looked at the code for that.I've never second guessed it. I think it's kind of like a madlib situation.[00:33:00] Simon Last: Yeah, I think you're right. Yeah. It's, it's totally a, a deterministic. Oh, I thought it was great. Yes. Although, although when the, if you use the AI to set itself up, it can update its own name, so. Okay. Um,[00:33:11] Sarah Sachs: how did you create it? It, did you just do[00:33:12] Alsesio: classroom?I,[00:33:13] Sarah Sachs: okay.[00:33:13] Alsesio: I did, yeah. I'll say just check my inbox for applications for a coworking space. Keep a people, so it created the database for me. Which I have here. And I guess database is like an notion table because everything is notion. Um, and then whenever um, an email comes in, like here, it just creates a new role for the person.Mm-hmm. And then it uses web search to enrich the mm-hmm. The profile. So it kind of like searches the web and it's like, this is who this person is, this is when they say they wanna move in and kind of updates everything else. This is, I mean, it's not a GI, but to me, I don't wanna do this work. So it feels like, I mean, it took me maybe like 15 minutes to set up the whole thing.Um, and I really like that most of the information should live here. You know, it is not like some other tool asking me[00:34:01] Sarah Sachs: Yeah.[00:34:01] Alsesio: To like, bring my stuff there. It's like I would've probably already created an ocean thing.[00:34:06] Sarah Sachs: Mm-hmm.[00:34:06] Alsesio: So[00:34:07] Sarah Sachs: most of our biggest use cases and gains are from. That extra layer of human involvement in the process to make it so right.And so like one of our biggest use cases is bug triaging. So if someone posts something in Slack, can you just have a custom agent that lives there that has its own routing constitution of what team this belongs to, creates a task in your task database and then posts in that Slack channel, right? Like that's like one of the first things that we built internally, I think.And it's completely changed the way that notion functions as a company. Nothing falls through, well, most things don't fall through the crack. We don't know what we don't know. But it's not replacing people, it's replacing processes.[00:34:44] Alsesio: Yeah.[00:34:44] Sarah Sachs: Right.[00:34:45] Alsesio: And I'm curious how you think about composability of these things.So the other one I was working on is like a. These filler. So whenever somebody signs up as a tenant, kind of he'll sell the lease for them. There should probably some agent that is like office manager agent mm-hmm. That can handle the request, make the lease, and then, uh, give them a ADA access to the office and all of that.How do you think about that feature?[00:35:08] Simon Last: Yeah, so I mean, there's, there's two ways you can compose. One way is by using like the data primitives. So you can, you know, you, you could give, you have one agent, uh, be writing to the database and there's another agent that's walked in the database. So that's, that's one way that they, they can coordinate that's like a little bit more decoupled and mm-hmm.Works really well. Or you, you can couple them. So I, I think it's actually not released yet. Releasing it like next week is, uh, in the settings for an agent, you can give access to invoke any other agent.[00:35:34] swyx: Hmm.[00:35:34] Simon Last: So you can have them just. Just, uh, uh, talk directly. So[00:35:37] swyx: you, was there a limit on like, number of recursions or just,[00:35:40] Simon Last: um, probably,[00:35:42] swyx: you know what I mean?Like, you can just get an infinite loop that way there's[00:35:45] Simon Last: some kind of Yeah,[00:35:46] Sarah Sachs: I think it's, there is actually a number somewhere.[00:35:49] swyx: I believe I'm just, you know, like, you're, you're, someone's gonna screw up. You[00:35:51] Simon Last: should you try to see[00:35:53] swyx: Yeah. I mean, everything's gonna be paperclips.[00:35:55] Simon Last: Oh, yeah. Yeah. But, uh, but, but that's really useful.Yeah. So we, you know, like I just, I, I helped, uh, someone internally the other day, they had, they had built like over 30 custom agents for, uh, for our go to market team doing all kinds of different things. You know, for example, like researching, you know, like, like filling information about, about a customer or like, like triaging customer feedback or like, uh, something like that.Literally over 30 of them. And, and then he, and then he even made like a database of all the agents and then he is like, okay, and, and now I'm getting 70, over 70 notifications per day with just the agents are blocked on various things. Uh, and then I was like, oh, okay, cool. You know, the obvious thing to do there is to make a manager agent,[00:36:32] Sarah Sachs: right?[00:36:33] Simon Last: That's gonna sort of blocks be another abstraction layer in between your, your, uh, uh, 30 agents. Uh, so yeah, we, we send out with like a manager agent and then has access to invoke all the other agents and it's sort of like, like watching and observing them and then it sort of, it just creates a layer of abstraction.So instead of 70 notifications per day, it's like, like five. And then, and then the manager agent can help like, uh, debug and fix any problems with the,[00:36:54] swyx: does this is a concept of like an inbox or something like piece, you're basically saying that they can message each other?[00:37:00] Simon Last: Yeah.[00:37:01] Sarah Sachs: Well[00:37:01] swyx: they use the system of record, which, which is[00:37:02] Sarah Sachs: notion, so we[00:37:03] Simon Last: actually, yeah, we didn't make any special concepts at all.[00:37:06] swyx: They're interested to the motion notifications that I would've got,[00:37:09] Sarah Sachs: they can just like write a task to a database that the other agent's task to listening to, or they can actually call a web book to the agent, like they can just add the agent. Okay.[00:37:17] Simon Last: Yeah, I mean, this is something that, that we're still working on.I, I think we, you know, like, like generally, generally the way we do these things is, you know, you first make it possible, maybe like a sort of janky way. So I, I, I think the way I set ‘em up is like, you know, we created like a new database that was sort of like issues mm-hmm. That the custom agents were, were experiencing, and then gave them all access to file an issue and then the manager has access to, to read the issues.Um, and that works pretty well, essentially like, like give it its own like internal issue tracker just for the agents. And then, you know, if that becomes a, a concept that seems useful, generally maybe we will think of how to package it in. But I mean, generally we try to just keep it to composing the primitive if we can.You know, another example of this is we have no built-in memory concept. Memory is, is just pages and databases. And so if you wanna give a memory, just give it a page and give it. Edit access to that page and the[00:38:03] swyx: human can edit it. Agent can edit[00:38:04] Simon Last: it. Yeah. And so that works, that pattern works extremely well on it.And you know, depending this case, you can have it be just a page or it could be an entire database with, you know, or, you know, I can have sub pages is is pretty on what you can do with that.[00:38:15] Alsesio: So when I was setting this up, uh, I connected my inbox and it was like, do you wanna use Gmail or Notion Mail? And I'm like, I don't wanna use Eater, I just want you to do it.I'm curious how you think about, you know, notion, mail, notion, calendar, all of these kind of ui ux interfaces, full stack[00:38:29] Simon Last: notion.[00:38:30] Alsesio: Yeah. When like at the same time you have the agents abstracting them away from you in a way, you know, how do you spend like the product calories so to speak?[00:38:37] Simon Last: Yeah, I mean, I think it's pretty important that you don't have to use, not your mail to connect to the mail capability.So we can just connect to Gmail or, or whatever you want, uh, to use. And we're thinking of the mail service as being really great to the extent that it's really agent built, right? So maybe the mail app is just sort of a prepackaged agent that helps you automate your, your inbox.[00:39:00] Alsesio: Yeah, the auto labeling is great.Think[00:39:03] Sarah Sachs: the, when we, um, integrate with Gmail for instance, we have a series of tools available that are available via MCP or API to Gmail. When we integrate with Notion Mail, we have the Notion Mail engineering team to build us the, um, exact right tools that optimize latency, optimize performance and quality.They own that quality. Um, there's product leads there. They're directly thinking about the user problems that happen in mail. So it tends to be when we build integrations and connections, we build natively first. Um, and then think about, um, extending them generally just because it's also easier. Mm-hmm. Um, um, to build natively first.Um, so that tends to be how we phase things out.[00:39:43] swyx: Talking about integrations, you prompted me, so I gotta ask. M-C-P-C-L-I. What's going on? What's the[00:39:48] Simon Last: Yeah. Opinion. I think, I mean, I'm, I'm definitely bullish and excited about cli. I think there's a few really cool things about cli. So one really cool thing is like, um, is that it's in the terminal environment, so it gets a bunch of extra power.So it, you know, for example, it can like, like paginating and cursor through like long outputs. Um, and it has a progressive disclosure inherently. Uh, so, you know, you don't see all the tools at once. It's just, you see the CLI wrapper and you can like use the, the help commands and, and, and read files. And then I think the most important thing that's, that's super cool is that there, it's also inherently a, a bootstrapped.So if there's an issue, uh, the agent can debug and fix itself within the same environment that it uses the tool.[00:40:30] swyx: Mm.[00:40:30] Simon Last: Right. Like, you know, I think I saw a tweet this morning. Someone said, you know, my agent didn't have a browser, so I asked it to make all a browser tool and within a hundred lines of code, it gave itself a little browser, like, like wrapping the, the, the chromium API, um.That's pretty incredible. And then if there was a bug, it would just immediately try to fix it. Mm-hmm. Right. On the other hand, if you use an, you know, if you use like of, of the Chrome dev tools, MCP, I've had this issue where like, like sometimes the transport gets like messed up. If it gets messed up, the agent has no way to fix itself.It, it no longer has a browser, it's, it's not broken. Right. I think that's, that's pretty fundamental, but I would say like a lot of the, the bad things about it can be fixed. Uh, so I think like, as a progressive disclosure, that can be fixed with, with right harness. Like, it, it obviously doesn't make sense to show it all the tools all the time.That's not really inherent to the MCP protocol. It's just like how you wrap it and use it.[00:41:16] swyx: There's many poorly built MCPs because we didn't know.[00:41:19] Simon Last: Yeah, yeah. I mean it was just early, like, like the obvious thing is, uh, you know, to start with is, is to just show it all the tools and it's like, okay, now we have a hundred tools.Yeah. And like the tool calling actually works. So let's of[00:41:28] swyx: your success[00:41:29] Simon Last: give it a way to like, like filter to source the tools. So yeah, I would say like broadly speaking, I'm really bullish on cli. I'm still bullish on CPS and in a certain environment. I think in, in particular, CP is really great for when you want sort of like a narrow, lightweight agent.I think there's, there's definitely a lot of use cases where, where you don't want like a full coding agent with a compute run time. And also you want it to be like more tightly permissioned. MCP inherently has a really strong permission model, like all you can do is call the tools. A CLI is a little bit murkier.It's like, can I access the, if PI token are you, like, properly sort of like re-encrypt the token so it can't like exfiltrate it, it introduce a lot of like, like new issues, which are. Real and hard to solve. And MCP is just like the dumb simple thing that works and it that it's pretty good.[00:42:12] Sarah Sachs: I'll add two more perspectives, not from it working well for Notion, but how notion like commits to both platforms.Notion is dedicated to being the best system of record for where people do their enterprise work. So we will always support our MCP and so far as other people are using cps, right? So regardless of our perspective, we've put a lot of effort into our MCP and we have a fantastic team that we're building, um, to do more there.And the second thing I'll say, I think, um, we all think a lot, but lately I've been thinking a lot about making sure there's a value alignment and pricing, um, with capability.[00:42:43] swyx: Literally our next question[00:42:44] Sarah Sachs: and. Needing language to execute deterministic tasks feels wasteful and requiring on a language model to interface with third party providers seems wasteful for tasks that don't require it.And particularly because our custom agents are using usage-based pricing. We think of pricing as like the barrier of entry for use of our product, and we're quite committed to making sure that it's not wasteful. Um, not just because it's a bad deal for our customers, but it's also bad business. We wanna have as many buyers, like there's a, there's an elasticity of demand and so if we can have our agents properly execute code that calls on CLI deterministically, it's a one-time cost, right?Versus constantly having a language model integrate with an MCP over and over and over and paying those like repeated token fees and it's happening outside the cash window, then you're paying for it over and over and over and it's just kind of unnecessary and less deterministic when it doesn't have to be.[00:43:36] Alessio: Yeah, the open-endedness I think is like, the main thing is like, well, if I go write code to just call an API, I would never use an MCP. But then you need an NCP sometimes when you know what to call, but you don't want it to restart versus like, I think the it built a browser from scratch is like, it's great when you're doing it on your own, but like if your customers were having your AI write a browser from scratch every time and you had to pay the token cost of that, yeah.You'd be like, no, no. The Chrome dev tools CP is actually pretty great. Just use that. I'm curious, how do you make that decision? Like should it be. Just straight API call very narrow. Should it be an MCP? Should it be super open-ended?[00:44:10] Sarah Sachs: Do you mean for when we ship notion capabilities or when we add capabilities to[00:44:13] Alessio: notion[00:44:14] Sarah Sachs: AI or,[00:44:14] Alessio: I mean, you might have a capability that the only way to do is an open-ended agent, like an agent with a coding sandbox.[00:44:21] Sarah Sachs: Yeah. In Notion ai they're not explicit, not We also ship an MCP.[00:44:24] Alsesio: Yeah. Yeah. In B,[00:44:25] Sarah Sachs: yeah.[00:44:26] Alsesio: Internally. Okay. Like is there ever a discussion of like, we're not gonna ship it because we're not able to tie it down? Or are you happy to just like,[00:44:33] Sarah Sachs: um, no. I mean, there are a lot of things where we choose not to use MCP because we wanna add more high touch to quality.I think search an agent to find is like the largest instance of that, where we have. Um, slack and linear and Jira search and notion that is not using necessarily the search MCP functionality that is provided by those companies. And that's because it's quite critical we think, to how our agent trajectories work is for us to have a little bit more control on the functionality of the search journey.And so it usually comes from quality and there's a long tail of things and that's why we built an MCP client or an MCP server, excuse me, so that people can connect whatever they want. There's that long tail, right. But we, for search particularly, I would say that's like the primary entry point, but there are other connections as well that it's a little bit of secret sauce a

Deze talkshow wordt mede mogelijk gemaakt door MSI. Alle meningen in deze video zijn onze eigen. MSI heeft inhoudelijk geen inspraak op de content en zien de video net als jullie hier voor het eerst op de site.Het is tijd voor de traditionele move naar weekend. Bij Gamekings leiden we dit traditioneel in met een nieuwe editie van Einde van de Week Vrijdag Live. Ook dit keer wisselen we serieuze onderwerpen af met lol en ongein. Exact waar je zin in hebt als de zater- en zondag lonkt. Jelle, JJ en Koos zitten klaar om een reeks aan topics met je door te nemen. Zo kijken ze naar de cryptische post van Neill Druckmann, die toch echt lijkt te teasen naar een derde deel van The Last of Us. Aan de andere kant was daar de lead van de gecancelde multiplayermode van The Last of Us, die vertelde waarom het werk aan het spel gestopt is en hoe ver ze al in de ontwikkeling waren. De drie bespreken verder de mogelijke komst van een Starcraft-shooter. Dit en vele andere topics zie en hoor je voorbij komen in de Einde van de Week Live van vrijdag 3 april 2026.Gaan we toch een derde deel van The Last of Us krijgen?Andere onderwerpen betreffen de productie van het tweede deel van DayZ, de Mario Movie die afgekamd wordt door de media, maar toch als een malle scoort in de bioscopen, én goede en slechte 1 april grappen.Vandaag is de laatste dag om de Gamekings 25th anniversary merch te kopenGamekings bestaat 25 jaar en bij dit jubileum hoort natuurlijk feestelijke merch. En die hebben we voor je klaarstaan. In de shop kun je kiezen uit een t-shirt, een crewneck sweater of een hoodie. Check alles hier. Vandaag (= vrijdag 3 april) is de laatste dag dat dit kan. Om 23:59 uur sluiten we de shop.Schaf de krachtige Vector 16 HX AI gaming laptop aan voor een scherpe prijsMSI zet deze week de de Vector 16 HX AI in de felle lampen. Deze gaming laptop heeft aan boord een Intel Core Ultra 9 processor, een NVIDIA GeForce RTX 5080 (en dus kun je alle games op de hoogste instellingen spelen), een 1TB SSD, een 16” QHD+ 240Hz Display en 24-zone RGB toetsenbord. De krachtige knaap is hier bij de MediaMarkt tegen een scherpe prijs verkrijgbaar.Timestamps:00:00:00 Einde van de Week Live van 3 april00:02:25 Huishoudelijke mededeling: MSI00:04:26 Crimson Desert en onze livestream00:12:34 Huishoudelijke mededeling: Jubileummerch verkoop stopt om 23:59!00:16:30 Teased Neill Druckmann hier The Last of Us 3? 00:19:45 The Last of Us multiplayer game 00:27:14 Is er een Starcraft shooter game onderweg?00:28:43 Super Mario Galaxy Movie breekt records00:38:17 Xbox 360 development kit van Rockstar 00:42:18 Bohemia Interactive is bezig met DayZ 200:45:23 Werkwijze Rockstar aangaande GTA 00:47:25 De Gamekings Gig Guide van aprhell!00:58:33 Cyberpunk VR 01:01:24 Nintendo gamechat functie 01:02:58 Rollercoaster Tycoon 01:04:46 Thalassophobia 01:06:38 1 april grappen 01:08:50 1 april grap die echt bleek, Call of Duty 01:10:00 Ninja Gaiden Sigma Platinum Trophy01:12:44 Barbie Dreamfest 01:20:02 Dit gaat voorbij cool of serious uncool 01:21:56 Cool of Serious Uncool?

Competent Conquest Ben and Apex Chinchillia join me for Season 2 of the Bonktable Podcast to talk about everything StarcraftStarcraft TTS Modhttps://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3662791369BonkCon 2026 Sign uphttps://conquest.longshanks.org/event/30554/We are also starting up a discord server for anyone who wants to join us and talk about Conquest or any other miniature wargames people play.https://discord.gg/ztuD6MUMrEWe also have a podcast what you can find anywhere you listen to podcastshttps://www.buzzsprout.com/2183437Cassandra's Twittertwitter.com/bonktablecassSTL for the Trays used in the videohttps://cults3d.com/en/3d-model/game/conquest-base-and-tray-set-with-magnetic-and-mechanical-regiment-connectorsArt from Nicolette NuyttenTwitter and Instagram are @LibraryNii Website www.nicolettenuytten.comPhotos used are from Thumbnail provide by MassSong: NeonscapesArtist: | e s c p | https://www.escp.spacehttps://escp-music.bandcamp.com

It's the distant future. The South has risen again, in space. The Space Bugs and the Space Nerds are fighting, but they don't know they are actually space cousins. There is one woman who is kinda both of them and also a human. Is this empowerment? That's for us to debate and you to decide on this Lore You Craft episode...I meant The Lore You Know.

A little video about the SC2 game, my perspective on it :)

Remember when Blizzard was great? Warcraft, Starcraft, and Diablo were some of the most powerful IPs in gaming, and they all came from a singular company that could do no wrong. It was truly a glorious time to be alive. So let's bask in the warm glow of nostalgia for this episode, remembering only the good times back before the Devil Himself took sole control and destroyed two and a half decades of loyalty and goodwill. Chewie's Steam Next Fest article - https://www.patreon.com/posts/chewie-played-22-152827365 Come join us in the future! The show is live on Thursdays around 8pm(ish) Eastern time on Twitch. Become a Lifeguard on Patreon! – patreon.com/themanapool Podcast RSS Feed: themanapool.libsyn.com/rss YouTube: youtube.com/TheManaPool The Deep End: youtube.com/@TheDeepEndTMP TMP Streams Archive: youtube.com/@TMPStreams Twitch: twitch.tv/themanapool Discord: discord.gg/7da7T6s BlueSky: themanapool.bsky.social Instagram: TheManaPool Threads: @TheManaPool Email: dorks@themanapool.com Intro & Outro Music: Diamond by Swift – https://open.spotify.com/artist/0vAs5HIBkUPbuoN5b5GWTE

Join the HG101 gang as they discuss and rank a landmark for '90s PC gaming. Then stick around for Darkwing Duck (NES), a Capcom platformer based on the popular Saturday morning cartoon! This weekend's Patreon Bonus Get episode will be DEVIL DICE — an unconventional dice-rolling action-puzzler for the Playstation! Donate at Patreon to get this bonus content and much, much more! Follow the show on Bluesky to get the latest and straightest dope. Check out what games we've already ranked on the Big Damn List, then nominate a game of your own via five-star review on Apple Podcasts! Take a screenshot and show it to us on our Discord server! Intro music by NORM. 2026 © Hardcore Gaming 101, all rights reserved. No portion of this or any other Hardcore Gaming 101 ("HG101") content/data shall be included, referenced, or otherwise used in any model, resource, or collection of data.

We played Deadlock. A lot of Deadlock. The memes are true, it will overwhelm you and you'll be left wanting more. Kyle is happy to report that Slay the Spire 2 is more Slay the Spire, exactly what we wanted. Garrett played World of Warcraft, and its exactly what he wanted. Nintendo sueing America? Everyone wants that. But it seems not everyone wanted FF14 loot? This is GG Podcast. Supportourbromance.com or we'll make Grinding Gear 2, but it will be DIFFERENT! '

Games come and games go, some fast and some slow. This is Grinding Gear podcast where we discuss all the industry happenings, along with our own retro journey. Sony Pulls back from games on PC. Resident Evil 9 sold well, but lacks cultural splash. Highguard announces final update. Crimson Desert hype is building? Pokopia crits player desires. We've been playing Arc Raiders, RE1, Minecraft, FF14 and Deadlock.

Esta semana, voltamos para a Grécia antiga com God of War: Sons of Sparta, nos aventuramos de forma resumida por Dragon Quest VII: Reimagined e chafurdamos no fanservice de My Hero Academia: All's Justice. Nas notícias, os anúncios do State of Play, as demissões em Highguard, os planos futuros da Sega, os shooters de StarCraft e mais! 00:07:05: Demissões no estúdio de Highguard 00:27:33:Nintendo fecha mais emuladores de Switch 00:33:06: Sega promete grandes lançamentos nos próximos meses 00:42:40: Falecimento de Hideki Sato 00:45:37: Novos rumores dos shooters de Starcraft 00:50:35: Próxima geração será adiada? 00:58:49: State of Play 12/02 01:00:05: Kena: Scars of Kosmora 01:08:27: Yakoh Shinobi Ops 01:15:18: Project Windless 01:21:57: John Wick 01:26:09: Legacy of Kain: Defiance Remastered 01:30:04: Rayman: 30th Anniversary Edition 01:33:58: Dead or Alive 01:40:44: Marvel Tokon: Fighting Souls 01:47:18: Control Resonant 01:55:14: Star Wars: Galactic Racer 01:58:37: Metal Gear Solid: Master Collection Vol. 2 02:08:51: 02:16:21: Silent Hill: Townfall 02:24:53: Rev. NOiR 02:29:09: God of War Trilogy Remake 02:35:34: God of War: Sons of Sparta 03:01:55: My Hero Academia: All's Justice 03:24:31: Dragon Quest VII Reimagined Contribua | Twitter | YouTube | Twitch | Contato

We've teamed up with Starsand Island to share this cozy tropical adventure with you! It launches in Early Access on Feb 11th, go to https://store.steampowered.com/app/2966320/Starsand_Island/ to start building your dream island.Go to Factormeals.com/kindafunny50off and use code kindafunny50offto get 50% off your first box, plus Free Breakfast for 1 Year. Thank you for the support! Run of Show - - Start - Highguard Developer Wildlight Entertainment Confirms Layoffs At The Studio - Wesley Leblanc @ Game Informer - Ad - Assassin's Creed Black Flag Remaster Art Book Appears at Amazon UK, Now Up for Preorder - Robert Anderson @ IGN - ‘Diablo 2' Gets First Major Update in 25 Years With ‘Reign of the Warlock' Starring Rahul Kohli - Jeniffer Maas @ Variety - Hideo Kojima says he talked to Vince Zampella about making a Metal Gear shooter at Respawn - Neil Long @ VGC - A new line of Starcraft figures have been announced - Connor Makar @ Eurogamer - Wee News! - SuperChats & You‘re Wrong Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Dr. Tommy Wood (@DrRagnar) is an associate professor of pediatrics and neuroscience at the University of Washington, where his research focuses on brain health across the lifespan. This includes therapies for brain injury in newborns, prevention and treatment of adult brain trauma, and the factors that contribute to long-term cognitive function and cognitive decline. He is the author of the forthcoming book The Stimulated Mind.This episode is brought to you by:Circle complete community platform for your community, events, and courses — all under your own brand: https://circle.so/tim ($1,000 off when you demo Circle Plus)Monarch track, budget, plan, and do more with your money: Monarch.com/Tim (50% off your first year at monarchmoney.com with code TIM)Eight Sleep Pod Cover 5 sleeping solution for dynamic cooling and heating: EightSleep.com/Tim (use code TIM to get $350 off your very own Pod 5 Ultra.)Cresset family office services for CEOs, founders, and entrepreneurs: CressetCapital.com/Tim*TIMESTAMPS:[00:00:00] Start[00:02:30] The cognition conversation commences.[00:03:11] Why human babies are chubby little brain-fuel tanks.[00:05:16] Brain injury in newborns: Cooling, caffeine, and coming home.[00:09:07] Adult concussion protocol: Fever management, ketones, and why you shouldn't chug Powerade.[00:18:59] Washington's 2nd Strongest Man talks omega-3s, methylation, and why your brain needs the whole orchestra.[00:29:34] Auguste Deter, Alzheimer's mystery patient, and the 45-70% dementia prevention sweet spot.[00:39:22] From CGM monitoring to the “use it or lose it” glucose paradox.[00:55:54] VO2 max training as cardio insurance against dementia.[01:01:32] Jiu-jitsu, sleds, and the Norwegian torture method (4×4 intervals).[01:03:37] Lactate training: Forget the finger prick, embrace the misery.[01:06:40] Announcing The Stimulated Mind: Tommy's brain-saving book.[01:07:35] Foundation supplements: Omega-3s, B vitamins, vitamin D, iron, and magnesium.[01:08:58] Polyphenols, choline, and the case for eating more liver.[01:10:40] Creatine: Tommy's 10-gram cognitive stimulant ritual.[01:11:58] Cheap creatine temptation leads to lavatory lamentation.[01:14:16] Blood flow restriction training: High lactate, low load, maximum travel convenience.[01:21:45] Language learning, music, StarCraft, and why your brain needs to fail.[01:38:04] Sleep anxiety, air pollution, and gum disease: the overlooked dementia risk factors.[01:45:32] Air purifiers, CO2 levels, and sleep optimization hacks.[01:51:52] DORAs for sleep quality: when cognitive stimulation isn't enough.[01:54:55] The thesis behind The Stimulated Mind: Practical, referenced, and sustainable.[01:56:32] Kelly and Juliet Starrett's stamp of approval.[01:57:44] The beautiful compounding effect of fixing just one thing.[01:58:59] Who is Dr. Ragnar, and does he make housecalls to Valhalla?[02:01:06] Tommy's open invitation for complaints and scientific debates.[02:02:21] Parting thoughts.*For show notes and past guests on The Tim Ferriss Show, please visit tim.blog/podcast.For deals from sponsors of The Tim Ferriss Show, please visit tim.blog/podcast-sponsorsSign up for Tim's email newsletter (5-Bullet Friday) at tim.blog/friday.For transcripts of episodes, go to tim.blog/transcripts.Discover Tim's books: tim.blog/books.Follow Tim:Twitter: twitter.com/tferriss Instagram: instagram.com/timferrissYouTube: youtube.com/timferrissFacebook: facebook.com/timferriss LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/timferrissSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Jesse and Preach return to the Podcast to discuss the MSQ that was and the surrounding state of MMOs. Final Fantasy XIV has delivered a tight patch and a glimpse at where the story is heading. We question what will be important later, who are the Winterers, the Squirrel Suit, what was Yoshi P hinting at and much much more. Fan Fest will be here before we know it and the Roundtable shall return. Supportourbromance.com or Alphinaud will just stand there in 8.0.

You'll take our PCs from our old RAM hands! On the GG podcast this week Kyle is lost in the BG3 sauce again, Garrett gets sold on Blue Mage, Highguard sure has low hype, AI might be on the ropes, and folks want to know about Garrett's NYC adventures!

This week's show features everything from zombie screening in Quarantine Zone to modding your Switch 2 Joy-cons, making video game documentaries from primary research, our hopes for a third Wolfenstein game (and maybe a StarCraft shooter?), a sad farewell to Twisted Pixel, a long-ish deep dive on sequels in film and video games, and a bunch more.The VGHF's NES documentary: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJvpRGibFhgCHAPTERS(00:00:00) NOTE: Some timecodes may be inaccurate for versions other than the ad-free Patreon version due to dynamic ad insertions. Please use caution if skipping around to avoid spoilers. Thanks for listening.(00:00:10) Intro(00:02:07) How expensive is the noise your house is making?(00:05:48) People walking around on your property(00:14:39) The Untold Story of the Nintendo Entertainment System(00:24:58) Mosa Lina  |  [Linux, Mac, PC (Microsoft Windows)]  |  Oct 17, 2023(00:29:01) First Break(00:29:05) Quarantine Zone: The Last Check  |  [PC (Microsoft Windows)]  |  Jan 12, 2026(00:41:20) Absolum  |  [Nintendo Switch, PC (Microsoft Windows), PlayStation 4, PlayStation 5]  |  Oct 09, 2025(00:46:48) The Séance of Blake Manor  |  [Linux, PC (Microsoft Windows)]  |  Oct 27, 2025(00:48:51) Tetris 99 and replacing Switch 2 d-pads(00:56:44) Silent Hill f  |  [PC (Microsoft Windows), PlayStation 5, Xbox Series X|S]  |  Sep 25, 2025(00:59:44) Second Break(00:59:50) Sounds like we'll get a Wolfenstein 3(01:09:48) Avowed is getting a PS5 release(01:13:17) They are taking another stab at a StarCraft shooter?(01:18:22) Oh Meta, do you deserve such ire? Almost certainly.(01:38:54) Emails(02:01:27) Wrapping up and thanks(02:03:05) Mysterious Benefactor Shoutouts(02:04:51) Nextlander Content Updates(02:09:37) See Ya!