Podcast appearances and mentions of Robin Zander

Hi everyone, welcome back to Snafu with Robin Zander. This episode is a little different - instead of me hosting, I was actually the guest on my good friend Josh Levine's podcast, Great Mondays Radio. Josh and I went deep on a topic I care about a lot: why soft skills are the hard currency of the future. We explored what really sets humans apart in an age of rapid innovation, the rise of AI, and all the talk about machines taking over jobs. We dug into the skills that can't be automated, the value we bring that AI can never replicate, and why those human capabilities will only matter more in the years ahead. We also touched on leadership, creativity, and how we can all prepare ourselves - and our organizations - for the changes still to come. Please take a moment to subscribe to Josh's show, Great Mondays Radio. It would mean a lot to both of us, and I know you'll enjoy the incredible conversations he's hosting. I'm also excited that Josh will be joining us at Responsive Conference 2025 as a guest - so this won't be the last time you hear from him in our orbit.

Welcome back to Snafu w/ Robin Zander.  In this episode, I'm joined by Simone Stolzoff – author of The Good Enough Job and the upcoming How to Not Know – and our opening keynote speaker at Responsive Conference 2025. We explore what it means to have an identity beyond your job title, why rest is essential for high performance, and how ritual and community offer grounding in an age of uncertainty. Simone shares how Judaism and Shabbat have shaped his views on balance, the role of “guardrails” over boundaries, and how we can build more durable lives – personally and professionally. We talk about the future of religion, the risks and opportunities of AI, and why books still matter even in a tech-saturated world. Simone also offers practical writing advice, previews his next book, and explains why embracing uncertainty may be the most valuable skill of all. Simone will be speaking live at Responsive Conference 2025, September 17–18, and I can't wait for you to hear more. If you haven't gotten your tickets yet, get them here.   Start (00:00) Identity Beyond Titles (01:07.414) What identities do you hold that aren't listed on your LinkedIn? Simone's Answer: Ultimate frisbee player – “the entirety of my adult life” Aspiring salsa dancer – taking intro classes with his wife Former spoken word poet – “It was the most important thing to me when I was 19 years old.” New father – navigating life with a five-month-old "I encourage people to ask: what do you like to do, as opposed to what do you do?" Shabbat as a Sanctuary in Time (01:58.831) Robin references Simone's TED Talk, focusing on Shabbat as a metaphor for boundary-setting and presence. Simone expands: Shabbat offers a weekly rhythm to separate work from rest. Emphasizes the idea of "sacred time" and intentional disconnection from screens. Shabbat is a “sanctuary in time,” paralleling physical sanctuaries like churches or synagogues. Relates this to work-life balance, noting that intentions alone aren't enough – infrastructure is needed. "We have intentions… but what actually leads to balance is structural barriers." Boundaries vs. Guardrails (04:44.32) Cites Anne Helen Petersen's metaphor: Boundaries = painted lane lines Guardrails = physical barriers that actually keep you on the road There are calls for more guardrails (structural protections) in modern life. Examples: Airplane mode during playtime with his kid Attending yoga or activities where work can't creep in "Individually imposed boundaries often break down when the pressures of capitalism creep in." Religion, Ritual & Community (06:48.57) Robin asks how Judaism has shaped Simone's thinking around work and life. Simone reflects: Religion offers a “container” with a different value system than capitalism. As organized religion declined, people turned to work for identity, meaning, and community. Religion can offer rituals to process uncertainty — e.g., mourning rituals like sitting shiva. Religious or community spaces offer contrast: they don't care about your career success. "Religion is sort of like a container… with a value system that isn't just about growth charts." "It can be refreshing to say: Day 1, do this. Day 7, go for a walk." Personal journey: Simone reconnected with Judaism in his 30s as he built his own family. Once, went out of obligation, then rejected it, and now see beauty in ritual and intergenerational wisdom. The Future of Religion & Community (09:12.454) Robin theorizes a future rise in spiritual and communal gatherings: Predicts new spiritual movements or evolutions of old ones Notes a hunger for meaningful in-person connection, especially post-AI and amid tech saturation "There's a hunger... as AI and screens define how we relate, people want to gather in person." "I don't tend to make predictions, but I think this one's inevitable." Simone agrees... but offers data as contrast: Cites the decline in religious affiliation in the U.S. 1950s: 3–4% unaffiliated Today: Nearly 1 in 3 identify as “Nones” (no religion) Notes reasons: Rising wealth tends to increase secularism The internet creates alternate identity spaces "I do believe there is inevitability in the growth [of spirituality]... But the data points the opposite way." Simone reflects on the factors behind declining religious affiliation: Doubt now builds community – the internet has enabled people to connect around leaving religion as much as practicing it. Political entanglement – many young Americans, especially, are alienated by the perceived overlap between right-wing politics and Christianity. Yet despite this secular trend, the need for meaning, ritual, and purpose remains universal. “There still is this fundamental need to find meaning, to find purpose, to find ritual… even if it's not in the forms we're used to.” A Church in the Mission (13:07.182) Robin shares a formative experience from 2016: That year, he launched both Robin's Café and the first Responsive Conference. When he walked into the theater space that would become his café, he encountered a young, diverse Christian revival group – live music, dancing, and energetic worship happening in a Mission District theater. This juxtaposition – a traditional spiritual gathering inside a modern, “hip” venue – left a lasting impression. “It felt like a revival meeting in the South… except it was full of people my age and younger, partying on a Saturday morning – and it just happened to be church.” You Are More Than Your Work (14:51.182) Robin segues into the idea of multiple identities: He recalls how reading The 4-Hour Work Week helped him embrace not defining himself solely by his entrepreneurial work. Even on tough days running a business, movement and fitness have been a grounding force – something he does daily, independent of career performance. Quotes from Simone's TED Talk: “Some people do what they love for work; others work so they can do what they love. Neither is more noble.” Robin asks Simone to share the origin of this line and how it connects to the poet Anis Mojgani. Simone recounts a pivotal conversation during college: As a poetry and economics double major, he was wrestling with career path anxiety. He interviewed his favorite poet, Anis Mojgani, asking: “Do you believe in the idea, ‘Do what you love and never work a day in your life'?” Mojgani's response: “Some people do what they love for work. Others do what they have to so they can do what they love when they're not working. Neither is more noble.” This countered Simone's expectations and left a deep impression. He highlights two cases for cultivating a broader identity beyond work: Business Case: High performance requires rest. People with “greater self-complexity” — more identities outside of work — are more creative, more resilient, and more emotionally stable. Moral Case: Investing in other parts of ourselves makes us better citizens, community members, and humans. Singular identity (especially career-based) is fragile and susceptible to collapse — e.g., pandemic layoffs. Solely work-based identity also sets unrealistically high expectations that can lead to disappointment. “You're balancing on a very narrow platform… You're susceptible to a large gust of wind.” Robin reflects on how the Responsive Manifesto intentionally avoids prescribing one path: It's not anti-work or anti-grind. Recognizes that sometimes hard work is necessary, especially in entrepreneurship. Shares how his friend's newsletter, Just Go Grind, embraces the idea that seasons of hustle are sometimes required. “Everyone figuring out their own boundaries is actually the goal.” Work Isn't Good or Bad – It's Complex (18:34.436) Simone adds that society tends to polarize the narrative around work: Some say “burn it all down”, that work is evil. Others say, “Do what you love, or it's not worth doing.” His book The Good Enough Job argues for a middle way: It's not hustle propaganda. It's not a slacker's manifesto. It's about recognizing that we spend a huge portion of our lives working, so it matters how we approach it, but also recognizing we're more than just our jobs. He introduces the concept of temporal balance: “There's a natural seasonality to work.” Sometimes, long hours are necessary (e.g., startup mode, sales targets). But it should be a season, not a permanent lifestyle. What's the Role of Books in the Age of AI? (22:41.507) Robin poses a forward-looking question: In an age when AI can summarize, synthesize, and generate information rapidly, what's the role of books? Especially nonfiction, where facts are easier to reproduce. Simone responds with both uncertainty and hope: Human storytelling as a moat: His work relies on reporting, profiling, and character studies — something LLMs can't yet replicate with nuance. He doesn't know how long this will remain defensible, but will continue to lean into it. Books are more than information: Books have utility beyond facts: they are entertainment, physical objects, and cultural symbols. Quotes the vibe of being surrounded by books: there's even an untranslatable word (possibly German or Japanese) about the comfort of unread books. A vinyl-record future: Books may become more niche, collectible, or artisanal, similar to vinyl. But they still hold society's most well-formed, deeply considered ideas. The human touch still matters: A typed note that looks handwritten isn't the same as a note that is handwritten. People will crave authenticity and human creation, especially in a tech-saturated world. “You can appreciate when something has a level of human touch, especially in an increasingly tech-powered world.” He closes with a self-aware reflection: “I don't claim to know whether my career will still exist in five years… which is why I picked this topic for my second book.” “Created by Humans” (25:49.549) Robin references a conversation with Bree Groff, who imagined a world where creative work carries a “Created by Human” tag, like organic food labeling. “I think we'll see that [kind of labeling] in the next few decades – maybe even in the next few years.” As AI-generated content floods the market, human-made work may soon carry new cultural cachet. Simone shares a turning point: after submitting an op-ed to The New York Times, his editor flagged a bad metaphor. En route to a bachelor party, he opened ChatGPT, asked for new metaphors, chose one, and it made the print edition the next day. “Maybe I've broken some law about journalism ethics... but that was the moment where I was like: whoa. This sh*t is crazy.” The Home-Buying Crash Course Powered by AI (27:57) Robin's breakthrough came while navigating the chaos of buying a house. He used ChatGPT to upskill rapidly: Structural questions (e.g., redwood roots and foundation risk) Zoning and legal research Negotiation tactics “The rate of learning I was able to create because of these tools was 10 to 100 times faster than what I could've done previously.” How to Live Without Knowing (29:41.498) Simone previews his next book, How to Not Know, a field guide for navigating uncertainty. In an age of instant answers, our tolerance for the unknown is shrinking, while uncertainty itself is growing. “We're trying to find clarity where there is none. My hope is that the book offers tools to live in that space.” The “Three Horsemen of Delusion”: Comfort – we crave the ease of certainty. Hubris – we assume we know more than we do. Control – we believe certainty gives us power over the future. Robin asks how Simone finds his stories. His answer: chase change. Whether internal (doubt, transformation) or external (leaving a cult, facing rising seas), he seeks tension and evolution. Examples: A couple questioning their marriage An employee leading dissent at work A man leaving his religious identity behind A nation (Tuvalu) confronting its own disappearance “The story you find is always better than the one you seek.” Want to Be a Writer? Start Writing. (36:50.554) Robin asks for writing advice. Simone offers two pillars: Ask These Four Questions: What's the story? Why should people care? Why now? Why you? “Only you can tell the story of buying a café and selling it on Craigslist.” Build the Practice: Writing is not just inspiration—it's routine. Schedule it. Join a group. Set deadlines. “Writing is the act of putting your ass in the chair.” Robin applauds Simone's book title, How to Not Know, for its playfulness and relevance. He asks how Simone's own relationship with uncertainty has evolved through his research. Simone reflects on how writing his first book, The Good Enough Job, softened his stance, from a hot take to a more nuanced view of work's role in life. Similarly, with his new book, his thinking on uncertainty has shifted. “Uncertainty is uncomfortable by design. That discomfort is what makes us pay attention.” Simone once championed uncertainty for its spontaneity and freedom. But now, he sees a more complex dance between certainty and uncertainty. “Certainty begets the ability to become more comfortable with uncertainty.” He gives the example of a younger self traveling with no plan, and the maturity of seeing how some people use uncertainty to avoid depth and commitment. Durable Skills for an Unstable Future (43:57.613) Robin shifts to the practical: In a world where stability is fading, what should we teach future generations? Simone shares three core “durable skills”: Learn how to learn – Adaptability beats certainty. Tell compelling stories – Human connection never goes out of style. Discern control from chaos – Use a mental decision tree: What can I control? If I can't control it, can I prepare? If I can't prepare, can I accept? “Often we're more uncomfortable with uncertainty than with a certain bad outcome.” He cites research showing people are stressed more by maybe getting shocked than actually getting shocked. AI as Editor, Not Author (47:23.765) Robin circles back to AI. Simone explains how his relationship with it has evolved: He never uses it for first drafts or ideation. Instead, AI serves as a “sparring partner” in editing – great at spotting drag, less useful at solving it. “People are often right about something being wrong, but not about the solution. I treat AI the same way.” Simone defends creative friction as essential to craft: rewriting, deleting, struggling – that's the work. The Chinese Farmer & the Fallacy of Forecasts (50:27.215) Robin expresses cautious optimism – but also fears AI will widen inequality and erode entry-level jobs. He asks what gives Simone hope. Simone counters with the “Parable of the Chinese Farmer,” where events can't be judged good or bad in real time. His conclusion: we don't know enough to be either pessimistic or optimistic. “Maybe AI ushers in civil unrest. Maybe a golden age. Maybe yes, maybe no.” He's most hopeful about the growing value of human touch – gifts of time, love, and effort in an increasingly automated world. Where to Find Simone (53:44.845) Website: thegoodenoughjob.com Newsletter: The Article Book Club (monthly articles not written by him, thousands of subscribers) Robin reminds listeners that Simone will be the opening speaker at Responsive Conference 2025, September 17–18.   People Mentioned: M'Gilvry Allen Anne Helen Petersen Anis Mojgani  Bree Groff  Tim Ferriss Steven Pressfield Ernest Hemingway Justin Gordon   Organizations Mentioned:   Responsive Conference Zander Media Asana, Inc X, The Moonshot Factory (formerly Google X)  Waymo,  Jewish Community Centers (Boulder & Denver)  Robin's Cafe Amazon Google / Alphabet    Books & Newsletters The Good Enough Job  How to Not Know (upcoming book) The 4‑Hour Workweek Just Go Grind  Article Book Club   

Welcome back to Snafu with Robin Zander. In this episode, I'm joined by Bree Groff, consultant, writer, and author of Today Was Fun. We talk about why mischief belongs at work, how humor and flirtation create real psychological safety, and the bold design choices behind her unforgettable book cover. Bree shares how she moved from CEO roles to full creative freedom, and how that shift helped her find her voice. We discuss marketing in 2025, how AI might reshape work and writing, and why personal agency, not hours, is the most important lever in a workweek.  Bree offers practical insights for leading with joy, helping kids future-proof their lives, and deciding what's “enough” in a world that always demands more. She also reflects on writing the book while parenting, consulting, and building her own business, and what it means to embrace the joy of not knowing what comes next. Bree will also be joining us live at Responsive Conference 2025, and I'm thrilled for you to hear her on stage. If you haven't gotten your tickets yet, get them here. Books Trickster Makes This World: Mischief, Myth, and Art — Lewis Hyde Anansi Boys — Neil Gaiman Work Less, Do More: Designing the 4-Day Week — Alex Pang Shorter: Work Better, Smarter, and Less―Here's How — Alex Pang Rest: Why You Get More Done When You Work Less — Alex Pang Perennial Seller: The Art of Making and Marketing Work that Lasts — Ryan Holiday Today Was Fun — Bree Groff The 4-Hour Workweek —Tim Ferriss Responsive: What It Takes to Create a Thriving Organization — Robin Zander Podcasts/Videos TED Talk: How to Start a Movement — Derek Sivers Start (0:00) The Story Behind the Book Cover (00:07.822) Robin opens with a personal observation: Bree's nails are the exact shade of green as her book cover – a smiley face on a highlighter yellow-green background.  Bree laughs and explains the choice behind the bold, offbeat cover: It was designed by Rodrigo Corral, known for iconic covers like The Subtle Art of Not Giving a Fck*. When she first saw it (at 3 a.m.), she gasped and loved it — it stood out and made a statement. The smiley is cheeky but not cheesy; it suggests optimism with a bite. The color isn't quite yellow — it's that “gross green” that almost hurts to look at. That tension is the point. “It's got some edge... not your straight-up yellow.” This tension – bright and fun, but just a bit weird or off –  is exactly the tone she wanted for the book and for herself. The Wink That Makes Work Fun Again (01:51) Robin brings up his old graduation photo: he posed slightly off-center, adding a knowing smirk. At the time, he didn't know why he chose that shot, but later realized it made people curious, like a small rebellion baked into something formal. Bree relates completely. She talks about: Why humor and a bit of mischief matter in professional settings. The concept of flirtation – not romantic, but playful: A wink in a branding campaign. A reference that only a few insiders get. A running joke between team members. Mischief creates risk and intimacy, both essential for real connection. These small acts of rebellion are actually signs of psychological safety and creativity. “You need a little bit of flirtation at work... a wink that says, ‘we're in this together.'” She argues that fun isn't a distraction – it's a sign that something is working. Tricksters, SNAFUs, and the Role of Risk in Work (05:49.219) Robin brings in the idea of the trickster, from folklore characters like Anansi and Coyote to his podcast title SNAFU. These figures don't follow the rules, and that's what makes them interesting. Bree expands on the connection between play and professionalism: There's a cultural script that says “seriousness = competence.” But in her experience, some of the best work moments involve play, risk, and even slight embarrassment. Being human together – laughing too loud, saying something weird, trying something bold – is what builds bonds. Real joy at work comes from these edge moments, not the sanitized ones. “You have to go beyond professionalism to access the most fun parts of work.” They agree that creating spaces where people can color outside the lines is not just fun – it's productive. Beyond Palatable: From People-Pleasing to Belonging (08:29.068) Robin shares a lesson from his mother: that once you leave high school, life is no longer a popularity contest. But he's realized that in business, especially branding, people often still chase approval and “likability.” Bree offers a deeper lens: Being “palatable” – meaning universally acceptable – is actually the opposite of being memorable. People who try to please everyone end up blending in. What she wants is to be delicious, or at least striking, not for everyone, but unforgettable to some. She draws a line between Fitting in: performing a version of yourself to meet social norms. Belonging: being your full, vibrant self and finding others who welcome it. “Please don't chew me up. I'm not palatable — I'm not trying to be.” This philosophy shows up in her book's voice, design, and in how she shows up in the world. Selling a Book in 2025: Bottles in the Ocean (12:21.838) What's it been like trying to promote a book in 2025? Bree describes her strategy as both scrappy and intuitive: She thinks of book marketing as sending “a million notes in bottles” – not knowing which will land. Her approach includes: Partnering with a publicist. Creating swag kits with branded gear. Pitching the book to “chatty” communities (e.g., alumni groups, newsletters, podcast audiences). Posting regularly, even when it feels silly. She cites the idea of “luck surface area”: the more interesting things you do, and the more people you tell, the more chances something will stick. “You do interesting things and talk about them a lot... and maybe something takes off.” Still, she acknowledges that luck plays a role. There's no guaranteed playbook, just momentum and hope. Is It Worth Talking About? (14:47.63) Robin references a quote from Tucker Max: that all marketing, in the end, is just word-of-mouth. Bree shares what guided her during the writing process: Her goal was to create something remarkable — in the literal sense: Something people would want to talk about. Not just good – but distinct, resonant, and weird enough to share. She wanted to avoid the “business book voice” – flat, generic, overly polished. She lights up when she talks about: Strangers sharing the book on social. Friends are texting her about it. An old college boyfriend resurfaced after reading it. “When that starts happening... You realize the machine is working.” She's less interested in best-seller lists and more focused on impact – ideas spreading from person to person, because they hit. Finding Her Voice: From Blogger to Book Author (16:36.665) Bree traces the evolution of her writing life: Started a travel blog in her early 20s and loved it immediately. Played with writing publicly over the years: occasional posts on LinkedIn, Fast Company, and later Substack (which began two years ago, alongside early book ideation). Writing always felt natural, but being a public voice within organizations came with constraints: “Even when I was CEO, I still felt the need to toe the party line.” Going solo changed everything: No longer represents a company's brand – just her own. Writing feels more honest, bolder, and more fun when it's “Bree Groff's opinions” alone. Stepping out independently accelerated her writing voice and gave her creative freedom. Writing in the Age of AI (18:19.63) Robin asks: Does writing still matter in the world of AI? Bree's take: She's a verbal processor — writing is how she discovers what she believes. “I never know how an article is going to end… I write my way into the idea.” She rarely uses AI in writing (aside from Grammarly). She prefers human composition even for emails. Writing helps her organize and refine her thinking: “I'll write a sentence and go – wait, do I believe that? And rewrite.” What writing offers that AI can't (yet): Emotional authenticity. A confessional power — like stand-up comedy: humans telling uncomfortable truths, out loud. She hopes we'll someday have digital labels like: “This was made by a human.” Robin presses for Bree's take on what AI changes – for better or worse. Bree's pessimistic view: Mass unemployment is a likely risk. Not convinced by the “tech creates more jobs” argument – even referencing Jevons Paradox: as things become more efficient, we just use more of them. “I can't quite think my way out of the unemployment problem.” Bree's optimistic vision: We're burned out. AI could fix that. If used right, AI can reduce workloads, not eliminate humans: “Wouldn't it be great if we used these efficiencies to help people live happy, regulated lives?” This would require a policy change, like tax incentives for companies that adopt a 4-day workweek. But she admits: that's a long shot. “It would take a lot for companies to prioritize reducing burnout over cutting costs.” Entrepreneurship Isn't a 4-Day Workweek (And That's Okay) (25:04.686) Robin challenges Bree's hope with reality: Entrepreneurship is chaotic and demanding, as when he launched both a restaurant and a conference in one year. When building something from scratch, the work is relentless. “There's no 4-day workweek when you're going zero to one.” He notes Bree's book could become a “perennial seller,” but only if she builds that momentum now — and that means hustle. Bree agrees — and offers nuance: She's in a launch phase. The last 6 weeks have been intense: Nights, weekends, articles, appearances. Her daughter is in a full-day camp to support this push. But it's intentional and temporary. She frames her philosophy like this: Overwork can be fun, energizing, even addictive –  if it's seasonal. She's already planned recovery: A two-week log-off in late August. A blocked-out first week of September for reset. Bree continues on the myth of “reasonable” work limits: There's nothing special about 40 or 60 hours. The only reason we cap out is that we literally run out of time. Businesses will take as much as you give, and now AI won't hit those limits. So we have to decide what's enough, not the market. “If we're going to cap work somewhere, why not cap it lower and enjoy our lives?” She reminds us: Deadlines and pace are levers, not laws. You can pull other levers, like starting earlier, extending timelines, or balancing your team differently. Robin shares that his intense physical regimen (handstands, running, cold plunges, hikes) isn't about health prescriptions — it's about joy. That same mindset applies to work. If building his company lights him up, great – but it's a personal choice, not a universal blueprint. Bree underscores that agency is key: the danger arises when a founder's choice to overwork becomes the cultural expectation for everyone else. A CEO has different stakes than employees; assuming equal sacrifice is unfair and toxic. Overwork becomes problematic when choice is removed or social pressure distorts it. They introduce the idea of opportunity cost: Every hour spent grinding is an hour not spent with loved ones, moving your body, or simply resting. Many delay self-care with the illusion they'll "catch up later" – but your body and relationships exist in the now. Robin recalls a brutal 2016: two startups, no time, lost relationships – a visceral reminder that everything has a cost. Work, But Make It Weird (36:39) Robin draws a parallel between their playful ethos and The 4-Hour Workweek: redefining productivity with mischief and authenticity. He asks Bree how leaders can lead differently – more playfully – without violating norms or HR policies. Bree delivers a gem: Her team once suggested that a CEO explain their product to a bunch of 7-year-olds on a picnic blanket. They scripted techy questions ("What's your tech stack?") for the kids, hired a comedy consultant, and filmed the whole thing. It was wild, unexpected… and the most beloved part of an otherwise traditional company week. The magic was in the vulnerability and humanity of the CEO — letting people into his home, sharing space with kids, and showing joy. Bree's advice to leaders: Rearrange the office furniture for no reason. Use Comic Sans in a slide just to annoy a designer. Hide jokes in presentations that only two people will catch. Amuse yourself. That's reason enough, and it models psychological safety and play for everyone else. Robin calls this “the courage to play” – the bravery to step out of line just enough to invite others into the fun. Bree builds on this: We're often afraid that having fun will make us look stupid – but that fear is misplaced. She quotes Amy Poehler: “Nobody looks stupid when they're having fun.” Play is an act of self-assurance, not frivolity. Bree shares a personal win: she turned a project Gantt chart into a hand-drawn arcade-style horse race. No one else joined in, but she loved it. And that joy, in and of itself, is a worthy output. Work According to a 10-Year-Old (42:21.176) Robin asks: How does Bree's daughter describe what she does? Her answer? “You help people work together.” Bree beams — that's not far off. Her daughter has even become her little publicist, linking nail polish to Bree's book and promoting it to strangers. Robin dreams of having kids and wonders about their future in a rapidly evolving world. Bree is grateful her daughter is 10, not 22 – the future feels so uncertain that not knowing is oddly freeing. College may or may not matter; she might be a marketing manager or start an artist retreat in Tuscany. The one stable prediction? Human connection. Jobs built on empathy, presence, and the hug – literal or metaphorical – will always have value. Robin jokes (but not really) about resisting the idea of robot romantic partners. Bree wonders: Will we be seen as biased for resisting AI companionship? Is that the next generational tension? The Only Skill That Might Still Matter in 2040 (43:55.959) Robin asks: What durable skills should Gen Alpha learn in a world of AI and noise? Bree's first thought: “understanding human behavior” — but AI might already be better at that. So she lands on something deeper: The skill of knowing what kind of life you want to lead. It's rarely taught, and sorely needed. That's why so many people wake up at 40, mid-career, with a law degree but no love for the law, and end up switching to something that finally feels like them. Teaching kids to listen to their appetites and curiosities might be the most powerful, future-proof education we can offer. Bree argues that most people were never taught to ask foundational questions about the life they truly want: From childhood to college, we follow preset tracks – curriculum, majors, careers. If you're lucky, you get an elective or two. But real self-inquiry? Rare. We're missing education on key lifestyle preferences: What kind of schedule do I like? What kind of people energize me? Do I want to live in a city or near nature? How much solitude, structure, or chaos is ideal for me? Bree believes this underdeveloped self-awareness is the root cause of burnout: People follow “the path,” get promoted, tick boxes, and still feel unsatisfied. Companies gladly fill the vacuum with corporate ladders and titles – senior director, VP, etc. But we rarely stop to ask: Do I want my boss's job? Her hope for her daughter: not just career success, but aliveness. To develop the instincts and courage to ask: What do I want to get out of my short time here? And to find joy in helping others experience a bit more light while they're here, too. “Who Are You and What Is Your Purpose?” (51:33.666) Robin shares a surprising memory: a third-grade class titled Who Are You and What Is Your Purpose? He doesn't remember the content – school was tough for him then – but the title stuck. It captured something real and deep that still resonates. Bree lights up: “Okay, I take it all back – someone was teaching this, and it was you!” They land on a core truth: that mischief, self-knowledge, and authenticity are deeply intertwined. Knowing who you are is the first step. And honoring the weird, playful part of yourself makes life better — and work richer. Order, Chaos & a Trello Board (53:51) Robin pivots: What did Bree learn about writing through this book, especially while juggling parenting and client work? Bree shares her full process: She started with a Trello board: each list represented a chapter. Over many months, she collected bits of inspiration: ideas from the shower, great quotes, Substack entries, research snippets – all filed as cards. This meant when it came time to write, she wasn't starting from scratch. Her trick: separate idea collection from prose creation. Once she had a "pile of disorganized meat," she could stitch it together with intention. She scheduled 4-hour blocks to write ~1,000 words per session – 50 sessions = a 50,000-word book. She was thoughtful about pacing and reader experience: "That was a heavy part – maybe time for a joke. "I've been light for a while – maybe we need some grounding research." The outcome: a process that respected her creativity, time, and humanity. The Joy of Not Knowing What's Next (54:45.848) Robin asks: Now that the book is out, what's next? Bree doesn't know, and that feels exciting. She's booked through the fall with workshops, consulting, media, and speaking. But beyond that? It's open. She's leaning into serendipity: Publishing the book drew new, inspiring people into her life – people like Robin. She's open to building the classic “author-speaker-consultant” portfolio. Or possibly returning to SYPartners, depending on what fits. Or a totally new path. What makes it possible? A jumpy career history – she's used to leaps. A baseline of financial stability – and a partner with a more predictable job. Uncertainty isn't terrifying when you trust yourself to figure it out. “I can see through October. That's enough.” Robin wraps with heartfelt praise: Few first books feel as personal and reflective of their author as Today Was Fun. Even fewer come with so many shared connections vouching not just for the content, but the author herself. Where to Find Bree Groff (58:13.58) He urges people to read the book and see Bree on stage at the Responsive Conference (Sept 17–18). Bree shares where to find her: Website: breegroff.com Substack, LinkedIn, Instagram – all linked from her site. People Mentioned: Rodrigo Corral Lewis Hyde Neil Gaiman Tony Hsieh James Clear Tucker Max Alex Pang Ryan Holiday Tim Ferriss Amy Poehler Derek Sivers Justin Gordon BJ Fogg Seth Godin Organizations / Companies Zander Media SYPartners Nobel Zappos Microsoft Trello Substack AOL LinkedIn Instagram  

Welcome back to Snafu w/ Robin Zander.  In this episode, I'm joined by Brian Elliott, former Slack executive and co-founder of Future Forum. We discuss the common mistakes leaders make about AI and why trust and transparency are more crucial than ever. Brian shares lessons from building high-performing teams, what makes good leadership, and how to foster real collaboration. He also reflects on raising values-driven kids, the breakdown of institutional trust, and why purpose matters. We touch on the early research behind Future Forum and what he'd do differently today. Brian will also be joining us live at Responsive Conference 2025, and I'm excited to continue the conversation there. If you haven't gotten your tickets yet, get them here. What Do Most People Get Wrong About AI? (1:53) “Senior leaders sit on polar ends of the spectrum on this stuff. Very, very infrequently, sit in the middle, which is kind of where I find myself too often.”  Robin notes Brian will be co-leading an active session on AI at Responsive Conference with longtime collaborator Helen Kupp. He tees up the conversation by saying Brian holds “a lot of controversial opinions” on AI, not that it's insignificant, but that there's a lot of “idealization.” Brian says most senior leaders fall into one of two camps: Camp A: “Oh my God, this changes everything.” These are the fear-mongers shouting: “If you don't adopt now, your career is over.” Camp B: “This will blow over.” They treat AI as just another productivity fad, like others before it. Brian positions himself somewhere in the middle but is frustrated by both ends of the spectrum. He points out that the loudest voices (Mark Benioff, Andy Jassy, Zuckerberg, Sam Altman) are “arms merchants” – they're pushing AI tools because they've invested billions. These tools are massively expensive to build and run, and unless they displace labor, it's unclear how they generate ROI. believe in AI's potential and  aggressively push adoption inside their companies. So, naturally, these execs have to: But “nothing ever changes that fast,” and both the hype and the dismissal are off-base. Why Playing with AI Matters More Than Training (3:29) AI is materially different from past tech, but what's missing is attention to how adoption happens. “The organizational craft of driving adoption is not about handing out tools. It's all emotional.” Adoption depends on whether people respond with fear or aspiration, not whether they have the software. Frontline managers are key: it's their job to create the time and space for teams to experiment with AI. Brian credits Helen Kupp for being great at facilitating this kind of low-stakes experimentation. Suggests teams should “play with AI tools” in a way totally unrelated to their actual job. Example: take a look at your fridge, list the ingredients you have, and have AI suggest a recipe. “Well, that's a sucky recipe, but it could do that, right?” The point isn't utility,  it's comfort and conversation: What's OK to use AI for? Is it acceptable to draft your self-assessment for performance reviews with AI? Should you tell your boss or hide it? The Purpose of Doing the Thing (5:30) Robin brings up Ezra Klein's podcast in The New York Times, where Ezra asks: “What's the purpose of writing an essay in college?” AI can now do better research than a student, faster and maybe more accurately. But Robin argues that the act of writing is what matters, not just the output. Says: “I'm much better at writing that letter than ChatGPT can ever be, because only Robin Zander can write that letter.” Example: Robin and his partner are in contract on a house and wrote a letter to the seller – the usual “sob story” to win favor. All the writing he's done over the past two years prepared him to write that one letter better. “The utility of doing the thing is not the thing itself – it's what it trains.” Learning How to Learn (6:35) Robin's fascinated by “skills that train skills” – a lifelong theme in both work and athletics. He brings up Josh Waitzkin (from Searching for Bobby Fischer), who went from chess prodigy to big wave surfer to foil board rider. Josh trained his surfing skills by riding a OneWheel through NYC, practicing balance in a different context. Robin is drawn to that kind of transfer learning and “meta-learning” – especially since it's so hard to measure or study. He asks: What might AI be training in us that isn't the thing itself? We don't yet know the cognitive effects of using generative AI daily, but we should be asking. Cognitive Risk vs. Capability Boost (8:00) Brian brings up early research suggesting AI could make us “dumber.” Outsourcing thinking to AI reduces sharpness over time. But also: the “10,000 repetitions” idea still holds weight – doing the thing builds skill. There's a tension between “performance mode” (getting the thing done) and “growth mode” (learning). He relates it to writing: Says he's a decent writer, not a great one, but wants to keep getting better. Has a “quad project” with an editor who helps refine tone and clarity but doesn't do the writing. The setup: he provides 80% drafts, guidelines, tone notes, and past writing samples. The AI/editor cleans things up, but Brian still reviews: “I want that colloquialism back in.” “I want that specific example back in.” “That's clunky, I don't want to keep it.” Writing is iterative, and tools can help, but shouldn't replace his voice. On Em Dashes & Detecting Human Writing (9:30) Robin shares a trick: he used em dashes long before ChatGPT and does them with a space on either side. He says that ChatGPT's em dashes are double-length and don't have spaces. If you want to prove ChatGPT didn't write something, “just add the space.” Brian agrees and jokes that his editors often remove the spaces, but he puts them back in. Reiterates that professional human editors like the ones he works with at Charter and Sloan are still better than AI. Closing the Gap Takes More Than Practice (10:31) Robin references The Gap by Ira Glass, a 2014 video that explores the disconnect between a creator's vision and their current ability to execute on that vision. He highlights Glass's core advice: the only way to close that gap is through consistent repetition – what Glass calls “the reps.” Brian agrees, noting that putting in the reps is exactly what creators must do, even when their output doesn't yet meet their standards. Brian also brings up his recent conversation with Nick Petrie, whose work focuses not only on what causes burnout but also on what actually resolves it. He notes research showing that people stuck in repetitive performance mode – like doctors doing the same task for decades – eventually see a decline in performance. Brian recommends mixing in growth opportunities alongside mastery work. “exploit” mode (doing what you're already good at) and  “explore” mode (trying something new that pushes you) He says doing things that stretch your boundaries builds muscle that strengthens your core skills and breaks stagnation. He emphasizes the value of alternating between  He adds that this applies just as much to personal growth, especially when people begin to question their deeper purpose and ask hard questions like, “Is this all there is to my life or career? Brian observes that stepping back for self-reflection is often necessary, either by choice or because burnout forces a hard stop. He suggests that sustainable performance requires not just consistency but also intentional space for growth, purpose, and honest self-evaluation. Why Taste And Soft Skills Now Matter More Than Ever (12:30) On AI, Brian argues that most people get it wrong. “I do think it's augmentation.” The tools are evolving rapidly, and so are the ways we use them. They view it as a way to speed up work, especially for engineers, but that's missing the bigger picture. Brian stresses that EQ is becoming more important than IQ. Companies still need people with developer mindsets – hypothesis-driven, structured thinkers. But now, communication, empathy, and adaptability are no longer optional; they are critical. “Human communication skills just went from ‘they kind of suck at it but it's okay' to ‘that's not acceptable.'” As AI takes over more specialist tasks, the value of generalists is rising. People who can generate ideas, anticipate consequences, and rally others around a vision will be most valuable. “Tools can handle the specialized knowledge – but only humans can connect it to purpose.” Brian warns that traditional job descriptions and org charts are becoming obsolete. Instead of looking for ways to rush employees into doing more work, “rethink the roles. What can a small group do when aligned around a common purpose?” The future lies in small, aligned teams with shared goals. Vision Is Not a Strategy (15:56) Robin reflects on durable human traits through Steve Jobs' bio by Isaac Walterson. Jobs succeeded not just with tech, but with taste, persuasion, charisma, and vision. “He was less technologist, more storyteller.” They discuss Sam Altman, the subject of Empire of AI. Whether or not the book is fully accurate, Robin argues that Altman's defining trait is deal-making. Robin shares his experience using ChatGPT in real estate. It changed how he researched topics like redwood root systems on foundational structure and mosquito mitigation. Despite the tech, both agree that human connection is more important than ever. “We need humans now more than ever.” Brian references data from Kelly Monahan showing AI power users are highly productive but deeply burned out. 40% more productive than their peers. 88% are completely burnt out. Many don't believe their company's AI strategy, even while using the tools daily. There's a growing disconnect between executive AI hype and on-the-ground experience. But internal tests by top engineers showed only 10% improvement, mostly in simple tasks. “You've got to get into the tools yourself to be fluent on this.” One CTO believed AI would produce 30% efficiency gains. Brian urges leaders to personally engage with the tools before making sweeping decisions. He warns against blindly accepting optimistic vendor promises or trends. Leaders pushing AI without firsthand experience risk overburdening their teams. “You're bringing the Kool-Aid and then you're shoving it down your team's throat.” This results in burnout, not productivity. “You're cranking up the demands. You're cranking up the burnout, too.” “That's not going to lead to what you want either.” If You Want Control, Just Say That (20:47) Robin raises the topic of returning to the office, which has been a long-standing area of interest for him. “I interviewed Joel Gascoyne on stage in 2016… the largest fully distributed company in the world at the time.” He's tracked distributed work since Responsive 2016. Also mentions Shelby Wolpa (ex-Envision), who scaled thousands remotely. Robin notes the shift post-COVID: companies are mandating returns without adjusting for today's realities.” Example: “Intel just did a mandatory 4 days a week return to office… and now people live hours away.” He acknowledges the benefits of in-person collaboration, especially in creative or physical industries. “There is an undeniable utility.”, especially as they met in Robin's Cafe to talk about Responsive, despite a commute, because it was worth it. But he challenges blanket return-to-office mandates, especially when the rationale is unclear. According to Brian, any company uses RTO as a veiled soft layoff tactic. Cites Elon Musk and Vivek Ramaswamy openly stating RTO is meant to encourage attrition. He says policies without clarity are ineffective. “If you quit, I don't have to pay you severance.” Robin notes that the Responsive Manifesto isn't about providing answers but outlining tensions to balance. Before enforcing an RTO policy, leaders should ask: “What problem are we trying to solve – and do we have evidence of it?” Before You Mandate, Check the Data (24:50) Performance data should guide decisions, not executive assumptions. For instance, junior salespeople may benefit from in-person mentorship, but… That may only apply to certain teams, and doesn't justify full mandates. “I've seen situations where productivity has fallen – well-defined productivity.” The decision-making process should be decentralized and nuanced. Different teams have different needs — orgs must avoid one-size-fits-all policies, especially in large, distributed orgs. “Should your CEO be making that decision? Or should your head of sales?” Brian offers a two-part test for leaders to assess their RTO logic: Are you trying to attract and retain the best talent? Are your teams co-located or distributed? If the answer to #1 is yes: People will be less engaged, not more. High performers will quietly leave or disengage while staying. Forcing long commutes will hurt retention and morale. If the answer to #2 is “distributed”: Brian then tells a story about a JPMorgan IT manager who asks Jamie Dimon for flexibility. “It's freaking stupid… it actually made it harder to do their core work.” Instead, teams need to define shared norms and operating agreements. “Teams have to have norms to be effective.” RTO makes even less sense. His team spanned time zones and offices, forcing them into daily hurt collaboration. He argues most RTO mandates are driven by fear and a desire for control. More important than office days are questions like: What hours are we available for meetings? What tools do we use and why? How do we make decisions? Who owns which roles and responsibilities? The Bottom Line: The policy must match the structure. If teams are remote by design, dragging them into an office is counterproductive. How to Be a Leader in Chaotic Times (28:34) “We're living in a more chaotic time than any in my lifetime.” Robin asks how leaders should guide their organizations through uncertainty. He reflects on his early work years during the 2008 crash and the unpredictability he's seen since. Observes current instability like the UCSF and NIH funding and hiring freezes disrupting universities, rising political violence, and murders of public officials from the McKnight Foundation, and more may persist for years without relief. “I was bussing tables for two weeks, quit, became a personal trainer… my old client jumped out a window because he lost his fortune as a banker.” Brian says what's needed now is: Resilience – a mindset of positive realism: acknowledging the issues, while focusing on agency and possibility, and supporting one another. Trust – not just psychological safety, but deep belief in leadership clarity and honesty. His definition of resilience includes: “What options do we have?” “What can we do as a team?” “What's the opportunity in this?” What Builds Trust (and What Breaks It) (31:00) Brian recalls laying off more people than he hired during the dot-com bust – and what helped his team endure: “Here's what we need to do. If you're all in, we'll get through this together.” He believes trust is built when: Leaders communicate clearly and early. They acknowledge difficulty, without sugarcoating. They create clarity about what matters most right now. They involve their team in solutions. He critiques companies that delay communication until they're in PR cleanup mode: Like Target's CEO, who responded to backlash months too late – and with vague platitudes. “Of course, he got backlash,” Brian says. “He wasn't present.” According to him, “Trust isn't just psychological safety. It's also honesty.” Trust Makes Work Faster, Better, and More Fun (34:10) “When trust is there, the work is more fun, and the results are better.” Robin offers a Zander Media story: Longtime collaborator Jonathan Kofahl lives in Austin. Despite being remote, they prep for shoots with 3-minute calls instead of hour-long meetings. The relationship is fast, fluid, and joyful, and the end product reflects that. He explains the ripple effects of trust: Faster workflows Higher-quality output More fun and less burnout Better client experience Fewer miscommunications or dropped balls He also likens it to acrobatics: “If trust isn't there, you land on your head.” Seldom Wrong, Never in Doubt (35:45) “Seldom wrong, never in doubt – that bit me in the butt.” Brian reflects on a toxic early-career mantra: As a young consultant, he was taught to project confidence at all times. It was said that “if you show doubt, you lose credibility,” especially with older clients. Why that backfired: It made him arrogant. It discouraged honest questions or collaborative problem-solving. It modeled bad leadership for others. Brian critiques the startup world's hero culture: Tech glorifies mavericks and contrarians, people who bet against the grain and win. But we rarely see the 95% who bet big and failed, and the survivors become models, often with toxic effects. The real danger: Leaders try to imitate success without understanding the context. Contrarianism becomes a virtue in itself – even when it's wrong. Now, he models something else: “I can point to the mountain, but I don't know the exact path.” Leaders should admit they don't have all the answers. Inviting the team to figure it out together builds alignment and ownership. That's how you lead through uncertainty, by trusting your team to co-create. Slack, Remote Work, and the Birth of Future Forum (37:40) Brian recalls the early days of Future Forum: Slack was deeply office-centric pre-pandemic. He worked 5 days a week in SF, and even interns were expected to show up regularly. Slack's leadership, especially CTO Cal Henderson, was hesitant to go remote, not because they were anti-remote, but because they didn't know how. But when COVID hit, Slack, like everyone else, had to figure out remote work in real time. Brian had long-standing relationships with Slack's internal research team: He pitched Stewart Butterfield (Slack's CEO) on the idea of a think tank, where he was then joined by Helen Kupp and Sheela Subramanian, who became his co-founders in the venture. Thus, Future Forum was born. Christina Janzer, Lucas Puente, and others. Their research was excellent, but mostly internal-facing, used for product and marketing. Brian, self-described as a “data geek,” saw an opportunity: Remote Work Increased Belonging, But Not for Everyone (40:56) In mid-2020, Future Forum launched its first major study. Expected finding: employee belonging would drop due to isolation. Reality: it did, but not equally across all demographics. For Black office workers, a sense of belonging actually increased. Future Forum brought in Dr. Brian Lowery, a Black professor at Stanford, to help interpret the results. Lowery explained: “I'm a Black professor at Stanford. Whatever you think of it as a liberal school, if I have to walk on that campus five days a week and be on and not be Black five days a week, 9 to 5 – it's taxing. It's exhausting. If I can dial in and out of that situation, it's a release.” A Philosophy Disguised as a Playbook (42:00) Brian, Helen, and Sheela co-authored a book that distilled lessons from: Slack's research Hundreds of executive conversations Real-world trials during the remote work shift One editor even commented on how the book is “more like a philosophy book disguised as a playbook.” The key principles are: “Start with what matters to us as an organization. Then ask: What's safe to try?” Policies don't work. Principles do. Norms > mandates. Team-level agreements matter more than companywide rules. Focus on outcomes, not activity.  Train your managers. Clarity, trust, and support start there. Safe-to-try experiments. Iterate fast and test what works for your team. Co-create team norms. Define how decisions get made, what tools get used, and when people are available. What's great with the book is that no matter where you are, this same set of rules still applies.  When Leadership Means Letting Go (43:54) “My job was to model the kind of presence I wanted my team to show.” Robin recalls a defining moment at Robin's Café: Employees were chatting behind the counter while a banana peel sat on the floor, surrounded by dirty dishes. It was a lawsuit waiting to happen. His first impulse was to berate them, a habit from his small business upbringing. But in that moment, he reframed his role. “I'm here to inspire, model, and demonstrate the behavior I want to see.” He realized: Hovering behind the counter = surveillance, not leadership. True leadership = empowering your team to care, even when you're not around. You train your manager to create a culture, not compliance. Brian and Robin agree: Rules only go so far. Teams thrive when they believe in the ‘why' behind the work. Robin draws a link between strong workplace culture and… The global rise of authoritarianism The erosion of trust in institutions If trust makes Zander Media better, and helps VC-backed companies scale — “Why do our political systems seem to be rewarding the exact opposite?” Populism, Charisma & Bullshit (45:20) According to Robin, “We're in a world where trust is in very short supply.” Brian reflects on why authoritarianism is thriving globally: The media is fragmented. Everyone's in different pocket universes. People now get news from YouTube or TikTok, not trusted institutions. Truth is no longer shared, and without shared truth, trust collapses. “Walter Cronkite doesn't exist anymore.” He references Andor, where the character, Mon Mothma, says: People no longer trust journalism, government, universities, science, or even business. Edelman's Trust Barometer dipped for business leaders for the first time in 25 years. CEOs who once declared strong values are now going silent, which damages trust even more. “The death of truth is really the problem that's at work here.” Robin points out: Trump and Elon, both charismatic, populist figures, continue to gain power despite low trust. Why? Because their clarity and simplicity still outperform thoughtful leadership. He also calls Trump a “marketing genius.” Brian's frustration: Case in point: Trump-era officials who spread conspiracy theories now can't walk them back. Populists manufacture distrust, then struggle to govern once in power. He shares a recent example: Result: Their base turned on them. Right-wing pundits (Pam Bondi, Dan Bongino) fanned Jeffrey Epstein conspiracies. But in power, they had to admit: “There's no client list publicly.” Brian then suggests that trust should be rebuilt locally. He points to leaders like Zohran Mamdani (NY): “I may not agree with all his positions, but he can articulate a populist vision that isn't exploitative.” Where Are the Leaders? (51:19) Brian expresses frustration at the silence from people in power: “I'm disappointed, highly disappointed, in the number of leaders in positions of power and authority who could lend their voice to something as basic as: science is real.” He calls for a return to shared facts: “Let's just start with: vaccines do not cause autism. Let's start there.” He draws a line between public health and trust: We've had over a century of scientific evidence backing vaccines But misinformation is eroding communal health Brian clarifies: this isn't about wedge issues like guns or Roe v. Wade The problem is that scientists lack public authority, but CEOs don't CEOs of major institutions could shift the narrative, especially those with massive employee bases. And yet, most say nothing: “They know it's going to bite them… and still, no one's saying it.” He warns: ignoring this will hurt businesses, frontline workers, and society at large. 89 Seconds from Midnight (52:45) Robin brings up the Doomsday Clock: Historically, it was 2–4 minutes to midnight “We are 89 seconds to midnight.” (as of January 2025) This was issued by the Bulletin of Atomic Scientists, a symbol of how close humanity is to destroying itself. Despite that, he remains hopeful: “I might be the most energetic person in any room – and yet, I'm a prepper.” Robin shared that: And in a real emergency? You might not make it. He grew up in the wilderness, where ambulances don't arrive, and CPR is a ritual of death. He frequently visits Vieques, an island off Puerto Rico with no hospital, where a car crash likely means you won't survive. As there is a saying there that goes, ‘No Hay Hospital', meaning ‘there is no hospital'. If something serious happens, you're likely a few hours' drive or even a flight away from medical care. That shapes his worldview: “We've forgotten how precious life is in privileged countries.” Despite his joy and optimism, Robin is also: Deeply aware of fragility – of systems, bodies, institutions. Committed to preparation, not paranoia. Focused on teaching resilience, care, and responsibility. How to Raise Men with Heart and Backbone (55:00) Robin asks: “How do you counsel your boys to show up as protectors and earners, especially in a capitalist world, while also taking care of people, especially when we're facing the potential end of humanity in our lifetimes?” Brian responds: His sons are now 25 and 23, and he's incredibly proud of who they're becoming. Credits both parenting and luck but he also acknowledges many friends who've had harder parenting experiences. His sons are: Sharp and thoughtful In healthy relationships Focused on values over achievements Educational path: “They think deeply about what are now called ‘social justice' issues in a very real way.” Example: In 4th grade, their class did a homelessness simulation – replicating the fragmented, frustrating process of accessing services. Preschool at the Jewish Community Center Elementary at a Quaker school in San Francisco He jokes that they needed a Buddhist high school to complete the loop Not religious, but values-based, non-dogmatic education had a real impact That hands-on empathy helped them see systemic problems early on, especially in San Francisco, where it's worse. What Is Actually Enough? (56:54) “We were terrified our kids would take their comfort for granted.” Brian's kids: Lived modestly, but comfortably in San Francisco. Took vacations, had more than he and his wife did growing up. Worried their sons would chase status over substance. But what he taught them instead: Family matters. Friendships matter. Being dependable matters. Not just being good, but being someone others can count on. He also cautioned against: “We too often push kids toward something unattainable, and we act surprised when they burn out in the pursuit of that.” The “gold ring” mentality is like chasing elite schools, careers, and accolades. In sports and academics, he and his wife aimed for balance, not obsession. Brian on Parenting, Purpose, and Perspective (59:15) Brian sees promise in his kids' generation: But also more: Purpose-driven Skeptical of false promises Less obsessed with traditional success markers Yes, they're more stressed and overamped on social media. Gen Z has been labeled just like every generation before: “I'm Gen X. They literally made a movie about us called Slackers.” He believes the best thing we can do is: Model what matters Spend time reflecting: What really does matter? Help the next generation define enough for themselves, earlier than we did. The Real Measure of Success (1:00:07) Brian references Clay Christensen, famed author of The Innovator's Dilemma and How Will You Measure Your Life? Clay's insight: “Success isn't what you thought it was.” Early reunions are full of bravado – titles, accomplishments, money. Later reunions reveal divorce, estrangement, and regret. The longer you go, the more you see: Brian's takeaway: Even for Elon, it might be about Mars. But for most of us, it's not about how many projects we shipped. It's about: Family Friends Presence Meaning “If you can realize that earlier, you give yourself the chance to adjust – and find your way back.” Where to Find Brian (01:02:05) LinkedIn WorkForward.com Newsletter: The Work Forward on Substack “Some weeks it's lame, some weeks it's great. But there's a lot of community and feedback.” And of course, join us at Responsive Conference this September 17-18, 2025. Books Mentioned How Will You Measure Your Life? by Clayton Christensen The Innovator's Dilemma by Clayton Christensen Responsive Manifesto Empire of AI by Karen Hao Podcasts Mentioned The Gap by Ira Glass The Ezra Klein Show Movies Mentioned Andor Slackers Organizations Mentioned: Bulletin of Atomic Scientists McKnight Foundation National Institutes of Health (NIH) Responsive.org University of California, San Francisco

He's jammed with Freddie Mercury after Live Aid, written songs with Beach Boys royalty, and once found himself shooting guns in a backyard with KISS guitarist Ace Frehley…while on Quaaludes. I'm talking about musician, songwriter, and producer Larry Dvoskin. Over the years, Larry has collaborated with legends like Robert Plant, Sammy Hagar, Sean Lennon, Robin Zander, Bad Company, Al Jardine, and MGMT. In this episode, we cover it all—from co-writing “Wish” with Al Jardine, to talking quantum physics with Paul McCartney, to the unreleased David Bowie–Brandy track he's holding onto. He shares the full story behind that surreal Ace Frehley moment and discusses his latest release, “This New Age,” recorded with the band Familiar Faces. We kick off this conversation with a heartfelt look at the legacy of Brian Wilson - and the timeless music of the Beach Boys that continues to inspire generations. Keep up with Larry with the following links: ⁠Instagram⁠ ⁠Larry Dvoskin Website⁠ ⁠This New Age- Larry Dvoskin and Familiar Faces⁠ Songs from this episode: The Beach Boys - Don't Worry Baby KISS - Lick It Up Larry Dvoskin - This New Age The Beatles - Yesterday Led Zeppelin - Stairway to Heaven For more information on My Rock Moment and the Host, Amanda Morck: www.myrockmoment.com For more information on upcoming episodes and your regular dose of rock history follow us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/la_woman_rocks Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

"Xtra Cherries" An aspiring baseball player with a solid fastball, the Illinois-born Chip Znuff put down the glove in favor of the bass and he left home at 17 going west with his punk rock band D-Generation. The D Generation story is told best by Chip himself, so I'll leave that one to him, and I'll cover what happened after that band broke up. Licking his wounds from his first time around on the rock and roll train, Chip formed Enuff Z'Nuff in 1984. Inspired by everyone from The Rasberries to Cheap Trick to Squeeze, Enuff Z'Nuff had pop hearts filled with hooks, but they were marketed as glam metal dudes, which led them into that lane, but it was probably a misrepresentation of the band's real chops. If you listen to the music and and ignore the image, they come across more like a tougher version of Jellyfish. Nevertheless, they made it work; in spite of their image, hits from their debut self-titled album like Fly High Michelle and "New Thing" were catchy blasts of ragged psychedelia that found the band all over MTV. Their follow-up record Strength found them looking decidedly less glam and it garnered rave reviews from Rolling Stone and the Washington Post and they absolutely crushed it on Letterman. Over the course of their career, Enuff Z'Nuff has toured all over the world, been on Howard Stern numerous times, been featured on VH-1, played on the Jenny Jones show, had Little Steven sing their praises as one of the most underrated bands on the planet and have put out close to thirty albums, including greatest hits and live recordings. Although the band has had its share of tragedies, losing members like Derek Frigo and Rickey Parent and its share of personnel changes with singer Donnie Vie stepping away from the band on two separate occasions, Enuff Z'Nuff are survivors. Chip took over vocals in 2014 and the band has never sounded better. Their new album Xtra Cherries has a deep bench, featuring Steve Stevens, Robin Zander of Cheap Trick, Donnie Vie, Gunnar Nelson and Steven Adler, who Chip played with in Adler's Appetite. The album is a refreshing blast of gritty pop that's played with muscle and heart, each track finding the band tearing the cover off the ball. https://enuffznuff.bandcamp.com/album/xtra-cherries https://www.enuffznuff.com/music www.bombshellradio.com (http://www.bombshellradio.com) www.stereoembersmagazine.com (http://www.stereoembersmagazine.com) www.alexgreenbooks.com (http://www.alexgreenbooks.com) Stereo Embers: Email: editor@stereoembersmagazine.com (mailto:editor@stereoembersmagazine.com) BLUESKY + IG: @emberspodcast

In this episode, we speak with Chip Z'Nuff from the legendary band Enuff Z'Nuff to talk about the bands 40 year history and discuss their 21st studio album, Xtra Cherries, which features a list of rock royalty, including Robin Zander, Steve Stevens, Steve Adler, Neal Schon and more!

Ryan Roxie discussed his move from Stockholm to Cape Town, highlighting the cultural and environmental differences. He addressed media sensationalism about South Africa's safety, emphasizing personal experiences. Ryan praised Alice Cooper's non-political approach to rock and roll, citing a 2018 Guardian interview. He shared insights on the music industry, including the challenges of promoting his solo work and the importance of hooks in songs. Ryan also mentioned his podcast, "In the Trenches," and its AI-driven special episode. He reflected on his career, including collaborations with Slash and Cheap Trick, and his admiration for comedians and their truth-telling roles.00:00 - Intro 00:20 - Move From Stockholm to Cape Town 03:23 - Alice Cooper, News & Comedians 05:00 - Metal Sludge, Metal Edge & Hooks 08:45 - Catchy Music & Standing Out 13:10 - Alice Cooper Interruption14:01 - New Roxie Song & Video & Roxie's Voice16:25 - Robin Zander & Liam Gallagher 18:30 - Learning From Alice & Work Ethic 21:45 - GnR, Slash, Cheap Trick, Oasis & More 24:12 - Bands Opening the Door to the Next Band 26:42 - Jackie From Canada and Favorite Song 28:30 - Meeting Famous People & Comedians 31:01 - Traveling & Touring & Seeing New Cities 32:30 - Alice Cooper Sightings 33:25 - In the Trenches Podcast, A.I. Video & Podcasts 36:55 - Having Guests on a Song & Algorithm  39:35 - Jordan Peterson & Eric Weinstein 40:39 - Collaborating & Connections 41:35 - Doing Podcasts 42:42 - Loving Music, New Single & Solo Shows 45:05 - Outro Ryan Roxie website:https://ryanroxie.com/Chuck Shute link tree:https://linktr.ee/chuck_shuteSupport the showThanks for Listening & Shute for the Moon!

Robin Zander is on Celebrity Jobber with Jeff Zito this week. What type of work would Robin Zander be doing if not for being the lead singer and rhythm guitarist for Cheap Trick? Many celebrities will tell you that if not for that one lucky break or meeting, they would be working at the GAP like Kanye West or A Calligrapher like Meghan Markle. Before she was a Suits actress, or hello, a member of the Royal Family. They may have been just a jobber. Thanks for listening. Please rate, review, and subscribe to the Celebrity Jobber with Jeff Zito wherever you pod.

new LA Guns, Robin Zander and Danko Jones plus Tesla, Hanoi Rocks and more! 

Mike Shirinian and Dave Fansler talk Rock & Roll and share their love for Cheap Trick with Marc Kapetan. They also talk about Marc’s new cover band featuring Margot Kim on lead vocals. On the Plate: From Pismo’s Coastal Grill, a Salmon with Dijon Beurre Blanc is served. The meal is paired with Robin Zander's "Surrender" Cabernet. Please Like, Comment and Follow 'The Restaurateurs' on all platforms: --- The Restaurateurs Podcast is available on the KMJNOW app, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube or wherever else you listen to podcasts. -- The Restaurateurs | Website | Email | - Everything KMJ KMJNOW App | Podcasts | Facebook | X | Instagram See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Here's an episode that we originally released on our sister show, Why? but if this isn't Grad School, well, we don't know what is.If you're like us, you need more Cheap Trick in your life. Thankfully, Ross Warner is here with his new book, American Standard: Cheap Trick from the bars to the Budokan and Beyond. It's a look at one of the great American bands and tries to sort fact from fiction. And don't just take us for it- the book is making a lot of year-end best-of lists.American Standard: Cheap Trick from the bars to the Budokan and Beyond is available right now from Backbeat books.

Once in a while, you find a band that just does everything right. Western Massachusetts band THE GLAD MACHINEhas all the right elements, the big hooks, big guitars and the reliable rhythms that make it a joy to discover. The band is helmed by vocalist Brad Thayer with Neal Robinson (Bass), Greg Saulmon (guitar) and Mike Franklin (drums) Tommy Pluta (2nd guitar/vocals). The list of influences is a who's who of power pop; Cheap Trick, The Posies, Jellyfish, and Superdrag.It's been a long time since The Glad Machine's self titled album, but thankfully the quartet from Northampton Massachussets have lost none of their chops. Indeed, there's even more variety on "Hey". The group sound and blend as well as ever and the diversions are interesting and beautifully played.Brad Thayer is still well in Robin Zander territory and the band's default is somewhere between Cheap Trick and Sloan, but the subtleties are more evident on "Hey." Eight songs, eight big choruses, wonderfully produced, "Hey" is an album of songs that rock out, but also two slower affairs that show a very different side of The Glad Machine. The best part is that we have even newer music to look forward to from THE GLAD MACHINE!!! Thanks for listening!!! Please Follow us on Instagram @hiddentracks99Pre and Post roll music brought to you by @sleepcyclespa

If you're like us, you need more Cheap Trick in your life. Thankfully, Ross Warner is here with his new book, American Standard: Cheap Trick from the bars to the Budokan and Beyond. It's a look at one of the great American bands and tries to sort fact from fiction. Ross is a passionate guy when it comes to pop culture, so, of course, we got along like a house on fire.American Standard: Cheap Trick from the bars to the Budokan and Beyond is available right now from Backbeat books.

Send us some Fan Mail? Yes please!Dr. George S. Maurer, Ed.D. grew up in Toms River, New Jersey and currently resides near Temecula, California. He is a retired Air Force Master Sergeant who deployed to Iraq during the Global War on Terrorism. He's an award-winning broadcast journalist with more than 35 years of experience who has interviewed high profile guests such as Sammy Hagar, Pat Benatar, Dan Ackroyd, Gene Simmons, Paul Stanley, Robin Zander and many more. Dr. Maurer enjoys RV travel with his fiancé, Adriana. He's a connoisseur of pizza, cheese steak and sub sandwiches and is a die-hard fan of the New York Giants. Dr. Maurer also enjoys California's wine culture.Connect with George: PodMatch & Amazon. . Subscribe, rate us 5, come join in all the other fun we offer, but most of all we hope you enjoy! If you liked this, and want to hear more, give us a follow and let us know! Or maybe you just want to tell us how awful we are? Comments help the algorithm, and we love to see ‘em! And as always, don't kill the messenger. ~Beloved Sponsors~Exotic Fridge Join our DISCORD server!! Whiskey Fund (help support our podcast habit!): PayPalOur Patreon & YouTube Connect with Hermes: Instagram & Twitter Connect with Morpheus: Instagram & Twitter Support the Show.

Jeremy AsbrockHe plays guitar for Ace Frehley AND Gene Simmons in their respective solo bands -- obviously quite the rocket ride for any lifelong KISS fan. Jeremy Asbrock joins us to discuss his band Rock City Machine Co., touring with his childhood idols (and the songs they wouldn't play), his favorite KISS deep cuts, jamming with Robin Zander and how he was secretly “ripped” during Ace Frehley's “Cherry Medicine” video.Created and Produced by Jared Tuten

If there's anything more American than great pop rock, than we don't know it. And if there's anything better than Cheap Trick when you're talking great pop rock, well, you need to get your head examined. And when it comes to Cheap Trick, the second generation of insanely wonderful songwriting is emerging.You know Robin Taylor Zander's dad's work, but wait until you check out Robin. His debut record is a beautiful album, and you know us, we aren't going to lie to you about this sort of thing. So whether you're out by the pool this 4th, or just trying to stay cool, cue up Robin's record and enjoy. You can thank us later.“The Distance” is available to stream now. Check out Robin's website or follow him on Facebook.Your Most Interesting StoryEveryone has at least one fascinating story. We help them tell it. Listen on: Apple Podcasts Spotify

Send us a Text Message.Welcome to artist record your ultimate intimate conversation with your favorite artist…"When you think about rock ‘n' roll, this man *is* rock ‘n' roll. From the grooves to the lyrics, the songs to the anthems, his music defines an era that will never be forgotten. Today, in the hot seat, we have the legendary Ian Hunter. Ian has just released a new album, **'Part Two,'** featuring an incredible lineup of guest artists such as Chris Robinson and Rich Robinson of the Black Crowes, Joe Elliott and Phil Collins of Def Leppard, Robin Zander, Rick Nielsen, and Tom Petersson of Cheap Trick. This album also includes a special tribute to Jeff Beck, featuring recordings with Jeff Beck, Johnny Depp, and Lucinda Williams.We're diving into all of it right now, so don't touch that dial! And don't forget to put your comments down below — we always love to hear from you.Links to order the album are in our description, so make sure you check that out."➜https://amzn.to/3ReuSxc****************************************************"Support your favorite show and channel! Click the link below to donate. Don't forget to include your name for a special shoutout. Thank you!"*MEMBERS ONLY➜https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCpDurwXKpDiXuGBdsklxigg/join*MERCH STORE➜https://adika-live.creator-spring.com*PATREON➜ https://www.patreon.com/The_adika_group?fan_landing=*PAYPAL TIP JAR➜ https://www.paypal.me/stephenadika1*AMAZON WISHLIST ➜ https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/30GQNR69L9048?ref_=wl_share* The New Website ➜ https://www.adikalive.com/Theme Song - Mark SlaughterWebsite:  ➜ https://www.markslaughter.com/Support the Show.

Cheap Trick drummer Daxx Nielsen looks back on his musical career and shares his personal and professional insights on the 'In The Trenches' podcast. With an impressive musical background, Daxx talks about his influences, journey in the industry, and drumming techniques, alongside his bandmates Rick Nielsen and Robin Zander. Join us for an exclusive look into the life of Cheap Trick's drummer. Don't miss this exciting episode with Daxx Nielsen! Episode No. 7139 ✔️SET THE REMINDER! Don't forget to Like & Subscribe! For more information about Daxx Nielsen follow his Instagram at: https://www.instagram.com/cheaptrickdaxx/ For more information about Cheap Trick follow their Instagram at: https://www.instagram.com/cheaptrick/ Cheap Trick - Surrender (from Budokan!) ▶ https://youtu.be/ZbkypX1OhZ0 For more information about Ryan Roxie follow his Instagram at: https://www.instagram.com/ryanroxie and In The Trenches visit: https://ryanroxie.com/podcast ***Roxie's Enjoy The Riff*** Watch this space

Tom Petersson is a musician best known as the bassist and co-founder of the iconic rock band Cheap Trick. Born in Rockford, Illinois, Petersson's musical journey began at an early age when he picked up the guitar. However, he later transitioned to bass guitar, a move that would define his signature sound and role in shaping Cheap Trick's distinctive style. In the early 70s, Petersson co-founded Cheap Trick with guitarist Rick Nielsen, drummer Bun E. Carlos, and vocalist Robin Zander. The band quickly gained recognition for their high-energy performances, catchy melodies, and fusion of hard rock, pop, and punk influences. Petersson's melodic basslines became a hallmark of Cheap Trick's sound, adding depth and groove to their music. Throughout his career with Cheap Trick, Petersson has been a key contributor to the band's success, both in the studio and on stage. His innovative bass playing can be heard on many of the band's hit songs, including "Surrender," "I Want You to Want Me," "Dream Police," and "The Flame." In addition to his work with Cheap Trick, Petersson has collaborated with various artists and pursued solo projects. He released a solo album titled "Tom Petersson & Another Language" in 1984, showcasing his versatility as a musician beyond the confines of Cheap Trick's sound. Petersson's influence extends beyond his musical contributions. His distinctive 12-string bass guitar, custom-built by Hamer Guitars, has become iconic in the rock world, inspiring generations of bassists. He is also known for popularizing the use of the 12-string bass in rock music, pushing the boundaries of the instrument and paving the way for its acceptance in mainstream rock. Over the years, Petersson and Cheap Trick have received numerous accolades and awards, including inductions into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame in 2016. Despite lineup changes and the evolving music industry, Petersson remains an integral part of Cheap Trick's enduring legacy, continuing to tour and record with the band, captivating audiences with his dynamic bass playing and infectious stage presence. Tom Petersson's contributions to rock music and his enduring influence on bassists worldwide solidify his status as a legendary figure in the annals of rock history. I hope you will enjoy Tom Peterrson's story. For more information about Tom and Cheap Trick head for the band's website http://www.cheaptrick.com/ or https://watch.countrymusichalloffame.org/videos/tom-petersson-of-cheap-trick-demonstrates-gretsch-white-falcon If you'd like to request a future guest for the show, please get in touch with me through my website https://www.abreathoffreshair.com.au

Awesome interview with Robin Taylor Zander, he's the son of Robin Zander. We talk about being a part of Cheap Trick, his influences and his new album "The Distance".

The Mike Calta Show Featured Cut

Robin Taylor Zander talks:-New Solo effort-How he played EVERY instrument on his new album-Did his father Robin Zander give him advice cutting this album-Recording in a 19th century home in Upstate NY-He played every instrument in Cheap Trick at one point-His hat collectionHigh and Low on YouTube 

Robin Taylor Zander joins Ralph Sutton and James Mattern and they discuss Robin Taylor Zander trying to avoid the opinion of nepotism, starting to tour with Cheap Trick in 2017, his relationship with the other kids of the original Cheap Trick members, realizing his dad was different from other dad's, growing up with amazing musicians such as Joe Perry and how he avoided becoming entitled, a live performance of What Am I To Do, Cheap Trick going back to the studio, Robin Taylor Zander's favorite moment performing with Cheap Trick, Robin Taylor Zander's first concert, first drug and first sexual experience and so much more!(Air Date: May 20th, 2023)Support our sponsors!YoKratom.com - Check out Yo Kratom (the home of the $60 kilo) for all your kratom needs!mangorx.com - Use promo code: GAS15 to get 15% off your first order!To advertise your product or service on GaS Digital podcasts please go to TheADSide.comand click on "Advertisers" for more information!The SDR Show merchandise is available at https://podcastmerch.com/collections/the-sdr-showYou can watch The SDR Show LIVE for FREE every Wednesday and Saturday at 9pm ET at GaSDigitalNetwork.com/LIVEOnce you're there you can sign up at GaSDigitalNetwork.com with promo code: SDR for a 7-day FREE trial with access to every SDR show ever recorded! On top of that you'll also have the same access to ALL the shows that GaS Digital Network has to offer!Follow the whole show on social media!Robin Taylor ZanderLink Tree: https://linktr.ee/rtzmusicWebsite: http://robintaylorzander.com/Ralph SuttonTwitter: https://twitter.com/iamralphsuttonInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/iamralphsutton/James L. MatternTwitter: https://twitter.com/jameslmatternInstagram: https://instagram.com/thejamesmatternThe SDR ShowTwitter: https://twitter.com/theSDRshowInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/thesdrshow/GaS Digital NetworkTwitter: https://twitter.com/gasdigitalInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/gasdigital/See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Dumb Ass News - A fight between brothers included frozen chicken being used as a weapon. (0:00) AJ was barefoot for Stunt or Stupid, for every 5th-grade science question he could not answer he had to snap a toe in a mouse trap. (2:08) Robin Taylor Zander called Chaz and AJ to talk about his latest album, which includes some big producer names from the rock world. Plus, his experience growing up around rock royalty, touring with his father Robin Zander and Cheap Trick. (9:35) Dumb Ass News - How could a woman have been run over by her own car? Plus, the surprising response from police to the accident. (17:40)

On this episode I play show reviews from Lars Lenova and Chuck Speer, talk about the Aerosmith Peace Out tour and more. Music by : Ravagers Ginger Wildheart Cheap Trick Hangmen Listen to all of these bands on Amazon Music and I get a kickback. Donate to the show – Rock and Roll Geek Friends […]

In this episode Phil Lewis returns to the podcast. Phil talks about LA Guns new album Black Diamonds, the virtuosity of Tracii Guns, the grittiness of Ace Von Johnson, the greatness of Johnny Martin, channeling Robert Plant on “Gonna Lose”, his long love for Alice Cooper, Donnie Vie. Rod Stewart, The Faces, the vast differences between recording now and in the 80s, the Cocked and Loaded catering budget, Robin Zander, Cheap Trick, Rammstein, Rival Sons, The Struts, performing acoustic, and a ton more! Thanks for listening, and please share! #podcast #allkillernofiller #phil lewis #LAguns This episode is brought to you by DEB Concerts. Follow DEB on Facebook and Twitter to get updates on upcoming shows, and more! This episode is also brought to you by Med Pharm. Follow their Facebook page and visit medpharmok.com to find out why they are “Cannabis With a Cause.” 30% of profits go towards building no-kill animal shelters in the area. They have a wide selection of products, and they have a doctor on site every Friday and Saturday. Mention Thunder Underground and receive 10% off on your first purchase! This episode is also brought to you by Sunset Tattoo Tulsa. Sunset Tattoo has over 25 years of experience, and is located at 3146 E. 15th St. in Tulsa, OK. They are state licensed and Mother approved! The tattoos are "Done Good and Proper" so be sure to like their facebook page for more details. Become a Thunder Underground #patron on Patreon: www.patreon.com/thunderunderground Stream us anytime everywhere podcasts are heard.

FRIDAY HR 5 Robin Zander lead singer for Cheap Trick calls the Monsters!! K.O.D. - His highness catches up with the official Monsters Photog Jay Vladimir. Monsters BOTW - Clermont Brewing Company - Red Ale

This week LC & Bakko debate Water Parks vs. National Parks. Chris Cornell sings a couple of Ones. Cate Blanchett dismisses metal. Margot Robbie defends it. Bakko takes a cheap shot at Robin Zander. Ground Hog Day comes up for some reason. The Fappening. Ugly Kid Joe tours the US for the 1st time in 27 years. A Metal Fest bans backing tracks. They pay their respects to Van Conner, David Crosby & Jeff Beck. Pantheon Podcasts Reach out to us! Rate, review and subscribe at Apple Podcasts: Cobras & Fire: Comedy / Rock Talk Show on Apple Podcasts Join our fanpage on Facebook: (2) Cobras ON Fire: Private Group | Facebook Click like and follow on Facebook: (2) Cobras & Fire: Rock Podcast | Chicago IL | Facebook Follow us on Twitter: Best Hard Rock & Metal Podcast (@CobrasFire) / Twitter Subscribe to our YouTube channel: Cobras & Fire Rock Podcast - YouTube Email us: loosebakko@gmail.com Buy a shirt!:"Cobras and Fire Podcast" T-shirt for Sale by CobrasandFire | Redbubble | cobras and fire t-shirts - cobras fire t-shirts Stitcher: Cobras & Fire: Comedy / Rock Talk Show on Stitcher Spreaker: Cobras & Fire: Comedy / Rock Talk Show | Listen to Podcasts On Demand Free | TuneIn Find it all here: Cobras and Fire Podcast - Comedy Rock Talk Show Music: Blackberry Smoke - Let Me Help You Find The Door Chris Cornell - One Black Stone Cherry - Out Of Pocket The Bronx - Style Over Everything Ugly Kid Joe - Failure Classless Act - This Is For You Screaming Trees - Dollar Bill Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This week LC & Bakko debate Water Parks vs. National Parks. Chris Cornell sings a couple of Ones. Cate Blanchett dismisses metal. Margot Robbie defends it. Bakko takes a cheap shot at Robin Zander. Groundhog Day comes up for some reason. The Fappening. Ugly Kid Joe tours the US for the 1st time in 27 years. A Metal Fest bans backing tracks. And we pay our respects to Van Conner, David Crosby & Jeff Beck. Pantheon Podcasts Reach out to us! Rate, review and subscribe at Apple Podcasts: Cobras & Fire: Comedy / Rock Talk Show on Apple Podcasts Join our fanpage on Facebook: (2) Cobras ON Fire: Private Group | Facebook Click like and follow on Facebook: (2) Cobras & Fire: Rock Podcast | Chicago IL | Facebook Follow us on Twitter: Best Hard Rock & Metal Podcast (@CobrasFire) / Twitter Subscribe to our YouTube channel: Cobras & Fire Rock Podcast - YouTube Email us: loosebakko@gmail.com Buy a shirt!:"Cobras and Fire Podcast" T-shirt for Sale by CobrasandFire | Redbubble | cobras and fire t-shirts - cobras fire t-shirts Stitcher: Cobras & Fire: Comedy / Rock Talk Show on Stitcher Spreaker: Cobras & Fire: Comedy / Rock Talk Show | Listen to Podcasts On Demand Free | TuneIn Find it all here: Cobras and Fire Podcast - Comedy Rock Talk Show Music: Blackberry Smoke - Let Me Help You Find The Door Chris Cornell - One Black Stone Cherry - Out Of Pocket The Bronx - Style Over Everything Ugly Kid Joe - Failure Classless Act - This Is For You Screaming Trees - Dollar Bill Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is a special complete episode featuring the great Power Pop band Cheap Trick. The band wore it's 1960's influences openly and you can hear instances of The Move, The Who, The Kinks and especially, The Beatles. They carried the sound and spirit of the 60s into the 70s and beyond. Please feel free to donate or Tip the show at sonictyme@yahoo.comPlease have a look at these special interest sites.If you would, please make a donation of love and hope to St. Jude Children's HospitalMake an impact on the lives of St. Jude kids - St. Jude Children's Research Hospital (stjude.org)Get your Vegan Collagen Gummies from Earth & Elle, available thru Amazon at this link.Amazon.com: Earth & Elle Vegan Collagen Gummies - Non-GMO Biotin Gummies, Vitamin A, E, C - Plant Based Collagen Supplements for Healthier Hair, Skin, Nails - 60 Chews of Orange Flavored Gummies, Made in USA : Health & HouseholdKathy Bushnell Website for Emily Muff bandHome | Kathy Bushnell | Em & MooListen to previous shows at the main webpage at:https://www.buzzsprout.com/1329053Pamela Des Barres Home page for books, autographs, clothing and online writing classes.Pamela Des Barres | The Official Website of the Legendary Groupie and Author (pameladesbarresofficial.com)Listen to more music by Laurie Larson at:Home | Shashké Music and Art (laurielarson.net)View the most amazing paintings by Marijke Koger-Dunham (Formally of the 1960's artists collective, "The Fool").Psychedelic, Visionary and Fantasy Art by Marijke Koger (marijkekogerart.com)For unique Candles have a look at Stardust Lady's Etsy shopWhere art and armor become one where gods are by TwistedByStardust (etsy.com)For your astrological chart reading, contact Astrologer Tisch Aitken at:https://www.facebook.com/AstrologerTisch/Tarot card readings by Kalinda available atThe Mythical Muse | FacebookEmma Bonner-Morgan Facebook music pageThe Music Of Emma Bonner-Morgan | FacebookFor booking Children's parties and character parties in the Los Angeles area contact Kalinda Gray at:https://www.facebook.com/wishingwellparties/I'm listed in Feedspot's "Top 10 Psychedelic Podcasts You Must Follow". 

On the latest Jagbags we talk one of the all-time legendary bands of all time: Rock Hall of Famers Cheap Trick. Are they Top 20 ALL-TIME? A hefty designation, and Beave argues why they belong. We talk their albums, their incendiary live performances (At Budokan, Music for Hangovers), their personnel, their best songs, best cover versions and their colorful personalities. We go through the Beatles' influence on the band, where "At Budokan" ranks as far as all-time live albums are concerned, and much much more! It's a JAM PACKED episode! Tune in now.

Cheap Trick singer Robin Zander says he would be willing to stand in with AC/DC on tour if asked, but on one condition -- Brian Johnson, his neighbor in Florida, would have to give his blessing. Zander tells Rolling Stone: "I wouldn't go there as a slap in the face to him. But if he said, 'Go ahead,' I would do it. And I'd donate the money to somebody. They're AC/DC. People want to hear those songs. Sure, they want to hear them with Brian. But if Brian isn't there, they can get someone else. I don't know what else to say, but I know I'd be heartbroken if something happened to me and I couldn't sing in Cheap Trick." Axl Rose has been rumored for the slot, an idea that doesn't sit well with Zander or his bandmate Rick Nielsen. "I don't know about that. That's weird. Malcolm [Young] left, and if he was still there this wouldn't be happening, I don't think. We love Angus [Young] and all that stuff and Brian's my neighbor for god's sake and I'm afraid to walk over and say hello. To see this happen is sort of like a death in the family."

Cheap Trick singer Robin Zander says he would be willing to stand in with AC/DC on tour if asked, but on one condition -- Brian Johnson, his neighbor in Florida, would have to give his blessing. Zander tells Rolling Stone: "I wouldn't go there as a slap in the face to him. But if he said, 'Go ahead,' I would do it. And I'd donate the money to somebody. They're AC/DC. People want to hear those songs. Sure, they want to hear them with Brian. But if Brian isn't there, they can get someone else. I don't know what else to say, but I know I'd be heartbroken if something happened to me and I couldn't sing in Cheap Trick." Axl Rose has been rumored for the slot, an idea that doesn't sit well with Zander or his bandmate Rick Nielsen. "I don't know about that. That's weird. Malcolm [Young] left, and if he was still there this wouldn't be happening, I don't think. We love Angus [Young] and all that stuff and Brian's my neighbor for god's sake and I'm afraid to walk over and say hello. To see this happen is sort of like a death in the family."

Pat welcomes author Brian "BJ" Kramp to the Zoom Room to discuss his fantastic new Cheap Trick book "This Band Has No Past." This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. Give online therapy a try at betterhelp.com/ROCKSOLID and get on your way to being your best self.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

In this episode of Redefining HR, I'm joined by Zander Media's founder and CEO, Robin Zander. We discuss his career path, creativity and digital storytelling, and his work in video production at Zander Media. We also talk about his new documentary, “Parenthood @ Home.”

BJ wrote a book, published by Jawbone Press and available now:https://www.amazon.com/This-Band-Has-No-Past/dp/1911036874For this episode BJ covers some of the podcasts he has been on to promote the book, along with some of the reviews that have come out, then interviews Trouser Press editor Ira Robbins, who shares his thoughts on the book, and also some insights and stories relating to Cheap Trick. Also included is a recording of a casual conversation between Howie Klein and Rick Nielsen and Robin Zander from March 1977.

This week we invite Mike Floros from Love In Chains and SteelCity as well as fellow podcast host Kevin Williams from Inobscuria podcast to join us in another fun rocked out version of Scattergories. Join host Sonny Pooni as he leads the other 3 fools down the path of craziness. WE NEED YOUR HELP!! It's quick, easy, and free - Please consider doing one or all of the following to help grow our audience: Leave Us A Five Star Review in one of the following places: Apple Podcast Podchaser Connect with us  Email us growinuprock@gmail.com Contact Form  Like and Follow Us on FaceBook Follow Us on Twitter Leave Us A Review On Podchaser Join The Growin' Up Rock Loud Minority Facebook Group Do You Spotify? Then Follow us and Give Our Playlist a listen. We update it regularly with kick ass rock n roll Spotify Playlist Buy and Support Music From The Artist We Discuss On This Episode Growin' Up Rock Amazon Store Love In Chains Website Inobscuria Podcast Website Music in this Episode Provided by the Following: Love In Chains, Iron Maiden, Steelheart, Warrant, Steve Stevens, Robin Zander, Billy Sheehan, Matt Sorum, Kevin Dubrow, Tony Franklin, Frank Banali Crank It Up New Music Spotlight Love In Chains If you dig what you are hearing, go pick up the album or some merch., and support these artists. A Special THANK YOU to Restrayned for the Killer Show Intro and transition music!! Restrayned Website

This episode features an interview with author, acrobat and entrepreneur Robin Zander as he discusses the importance of bravery and courage and the impact that the COVID-19 pandemic has had on various marginalized communities. Robin discusses what he learned from creating a video where he returned to his middle school and how the painful experiences in his past have made him the leader that he is today. He also reveals the work that he is doing to develop his voice and how taking singing lessons is helping him embrace his fears. 

Hello and welcome back to the Robin Zander show! Today's guest is Merritt Quisumbing Anderson, an employment attorney, former Head of People at Github, a mother of 3, and founder of Merritt+ Consulting. Merritt also happens to be an adviser to Zander Media, and my dear friend. In this episode, we cover Merritt's history, ranging from her experience as a child of immigrants to how she has built a career advocating for employees, as well as the organizations, she works with. Whether you are building a company or contributing to a company's culture, Merritt's experience across multiple industries has tactics and stories you can use. Learn more at www.robinpzander.com

Series 2 kicks off Monday with Tim Farriss from INXS in one of his most honest interviews ever. This is a chance to go back and celebrate the last 23 episodes of Series 1 of The Rider with Becko. If you use Spotify, you can hear a "with music" version, and get the stories behind the artists. Remember you can catch-up anytime on any of the interviews on whatever platform you choose and leave a rating if you have time - it all helps!! Series 1 included chats with: Andrew Farriss from INXS Ben Lee Nic Cester from Jet Andrew Stockdale from Wolfmother Dave Gleeson from the Screaming Jets and The Angels Mark Gable from The Choirboys Fifa Riccobono from Alberts Music Tim Rogers from You Am I Novak from Polish Club The Legendary Michael Chugg Rob Hirst & Peter Garrett from Midnight Oil Gavin Rossdale from Bush Rick Nielsen & Robin Zander from Cheap Trick Eric Kretz from Stone Temple Pilots Todd Kerns from Slash, Myles Kennedy and The Conspirators Brandon Boyd from Incubus Tim Freedman from The Whitlams Dave Faulkner from The Hoodoo Gurus Shane Nicholson Taylor Hanson

Chuck Wright is a bass guitarist who has played with Quiet Riot, Alice Cooper, Giuffria and many others. He has a new solo album out now titled “Sheltering Sky” that features a long list of stellar musicians including Jeff Scott Soto, Scotti Hill, Troy Lucketta, and Derek Sherinian. We discuss all this in the interview plus Axl Rose in the bathroom, Robin Zander in a bowling alley, music royalties, social media and more! 0:00:00 - Intro0:00:37 - Facial Hair & Style 0:02:28 - Military School & Rock n Roll 0:04:18 - Jack Bruce's Bass & Memorabilia0:05:45 - Developing Artists & Music Scene0:07:47 - Axl Rose & Guns 'n Roses 0:11:45 - Alice Cooper & Spinal Tap Moments 0:15:30 - Slash & Guitar Feel vs Technicality 0:18:17 - Chuck's New Solo Album 0:22:20 - Throwin' Stones & Negativity 0:26:34 - Jam Night at the Whisky & Robin Zander 0:31:15 - Social Media Use 0:33:32 - The Other Side & Frankie Banali 0:36:00 - Giving Up The Ghost 0:37:00 - Farewell Horizon 0:38:25 - Writing Lyrics 0:40:50 - Cradle of The Sun 0:42:46 - Performing Live 0:46:05 - Current Projects 0:48:02 - Quiet Riot & The Simpsons 0:50:20 - Two Different Quiet Riots 0:52:19 - Background Vocals & Michael Anthony 0:53:15 - Ted Nugent 0:54:40 - No Picks 0:57:10 - Song Royalties  1:00:03 - New Album 1:02:05 - World Central Kitchen 1:03:55 - Outro Chuck Wright website:https://www.chuckwright.comWorld Central Kitchen website:https://wck.orgChuck Shute website:http://chuckshute.comSupport the show

This is a chance to go back and celebrate the last 23 episodes of Series 1 of The Rider with Becko. If you use Spotify, you can hear a "with music" version, and get the stories behind the artists. Remember you can catch-up anytime on any of the interviews on whatever platform you choose and leave a rating if you have time - it all helps!! Series 1 included chats with: Andrew Farriss from INXS Ben Lee Nic Cester from Jet Andrew Stockdale from Wolfmother Dave Gleeson from the Screaming Jets and The Angels Mark Gable from The Choirboys Fifa Riccobono from Alberts Music Tim Rogers from You Am I Novak from Polish Club The Legendary Michael Chugg Rob Hirst & Peter Garrett from Midnight Oil Gavin Rossdale from Bush Rick Nielsen & Robin Zander from Cheap Trick Eric Kretz from Stone Temple Pilots Todd Kerns from Slash, Myles Kennedy and The Conspirators Brandon Boyd from Incubus Tim Freedman from The Whitlams Dave Faulkner from The Hoodoo Gurus Shane Nicholson Taylor Hanson

FULL INTERVIEW: Cheap Trick's Robin Zander See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

We are so excited to have international bands back on tour with Under The Southern Stars kicking off last week. The band, Cheap Trick weren't an overnight success. They relentlessly toured warehouse parties and taverns until they were signed to a major label - funnily enough, discovered playing at a bowling alley! The first 2 albums weren't a huge success either, but after a 'Beatlemania like' trip to Japan and the release of 'Live at Budokan' it all just happened! That lead to 'Surrender' and 'Dream Police' and worldwide attention. As part of Under the Southern Stars, they are coming back to Australia and a lot has changed! UTSS was revolutionary, trying to bring international bands to Australia while we were cut off from the world during covid. The solution was, they all stay at a resort together for two weeks in quarantine. It would have been wild! Luckily it hasn't come to that, and it's on until March 27 in Brisbane. (Make sure you catch up on the chat with Gavin Rossdale from Bush and Eric Kretz from Stone Temple Pilots) This is Robin Zander from Cheap Trick, on The Rider with Becko and.... bonus, Rusty from Electric Mary

Legendary rock scribe David Wild joins Matt and Jeff to discuss Ringo Starr's Time Takes Time on the brink of the album's 30th anniversary. But that's not all -- David came armed with audio from Ringo Starr and additional audio of a conversation he had with Don Was to revisit Don's experience as one of the producers on Time Takes Time.While David's wife just wants him to listen to more Rick Springfield (that's our flimsy tease for one of the subjects of this episode), we somehow convinced him to tell us about working with Ringo on the new book, Lifted. The book is available now in two different editions, with profits benefiting The Lotus Foundation charity.David has also teamed up with Phil Rosenthal (Everybody Loves Raymond) for the forthcoming podcast, Naked Lunch. He shares plenty of details on that exciting endeavor as well.No worries, he tells plenty of rock and roll war stories also. We had so much fun chatting with David and we're already plotting to get him back.Join the Record Club for additional content related to all of our episodes, including this one. We appreciate your support.Show Notes:David's famous experience trying to interview Van Morrison  David's Bob Dylan storyBob Dylan's Hearts of Fire movie ​​ Ringo Starr - Time Takes Time EPKDavid's experience working on Ringo Starr's new book, Lifted.Ringo Starr on Jimmy KimmelDavid spoke with Don Was for this episodeDavid's Flowers in the Dirt storyPaul McCartney - “Figure of Eight”Paul McCartney - “Distractions”Ringo Starr - “Weight of the World”The Ringo audioRingo Starr - Don't Go Where The Road Don't GoPaul McCartney - “1985”David's Paul McCartney Grammy storyRingo Starr - “Don't Know a Thing About Love”Ringo Starr - “Golden Blunders”Ringo Starr - “In a Heartbeat”Mickey Thomas and Robin Zander are, in fact, awesome.Matt's defense of “We Built This City” Starship - “Nothing's Gonna Stop Us Now”Mickey Thomas - Alive AloneElvin Bishop - “Fooled Around and Fell in Love”Jeff's UCR article regarding Jefferson Starship and Starship  David Wild's 1992 Rolling Stone profile on Time Takes Time  Ringo's Old Wave album David's new podcast with Phil RosenthalDavid's appearance on Jimmy Pardo's Never Not Funny 

Adam Hamilton was raised in Shreveport, Louisiana, and began playing drums at the age of three. As a child, Hamilton began aspiring to a professional music career through listening to both his father's records and to the music on the radio. While attending Captain Shreve High school, he experimented heavily with production and engineering and produced demos for local bands in Shreveport. After graduating from high school in 1988, Hamilton moved to Dallas, Texas, and then to Austin to pursue music.While Hamilton was performing at a club in Austin, he met Poison guitarist C.C. DeVille, who invited Hamilton to move to Los Angeles. Hamilton lived in DeVille's home for a time, and played drums in DeVille's post-Poison band The C.C. DeVille Experiment. Other members of this band included Joey C. Jones of 1980s glam metal band Sweet Savage, and Christopher Torak of Liquor Sweet. During the time they were together, The C.C. DeVille Experiment also went by the name The C.C. DeVille Experience. The band, minus DeVille, ended up leaving Los Angeles, relocating to Dallas and Shreveport, and renaming themselves Joey C. Jones and the Glory Hounds, with Hamilton's hometown friend Craig Bradford replacing DeVille on guitar. Joey C. Jones and the Glory Hounds released one self-titled album on Tony Nicole Tony (TNT) Records in 1993; the album featured songs written by C.C. DeVille and by Robin Zander and Rick Nielsen of Cheap Trick.His production work includes many titles released by Cleopatra Records, including albums by Leif Garrett, Dale Bozzio of Missing Persons, Vanilla Ice, and George Lynch. Hamilton also produces and writes music for television, and his work has appeared on Family Guy, The Simpsons, The Osbournes, Six Feet Under, Saturday Night Live, Numb3rs, Gene Simmons Family Jewels, Bones, America's Got Talent, and many others.

Robin Zander is a perpetual founder, creator of Zander Media and Responsive.org. YouTube: https://youtu.be/yCskspsQ788 We jump in and Zander helps set the stage with where he's come from, his history, and what drives him. All with a common point of creating great places to work (sound familiar?). Movement away from Hierarchy towards distributed ways of working. Away from top down control and towards people enacting change. Away from privacy and more towards transparency. Building a great culture. How do you make such a big change to a culture or structure when you're in the middle? You can't. Or maybe there are areas of influence that you start to initiate change. How can you give away your power? Flip the power structure on its head. Maybe approach it as an org within an org. The future of work? How does the rate of change play into it? The ability to respond to change. Not just systems but teams, skills, etc. Change is only going to accelerate. Is a business a Family or a Sports Team? For Zander it's a sports team that he hopes to be playing with for a really long time. He is a leader in service of his team and employees. The future of work really is whatever the organization wants to make it. So how about incentive structures that are out there in particular the difference between public vs. private companies. Probably a little bit beyond his pay grade but Zander certainly recognizes the tension of those incentives and how they affect decision making. Can you really be a responsive organization without continuous learning? No. Hard no. Growing as an individual is how the organization grows. An organization is just a collection of individuals.

This is Day 20 of The Dog Days of Podcasting. I attempt to do a show a day for the month of August. Friend of the show and friend of mine, Michael Street , calls in with a Brush With A Rockstar and I do a track by track review of the new record by […]

Former Spin Magazine editor, world's biggest Cheap Trick fan, and author Doug Brod joins us to discuss his amazing new book, They Just Seem a Little Weird: How Kiss, Cheap Trick, Aerosmith and Starz Remade Rock and Roll. Crucial matters discussed inlude: conflicted feelings over Kiss playing without our beloved Ace Frehley; our mutual devotion to Cheap Trick; how CT bassist Tom Petersson's replacement looked a hell of a lot like Tom Petersson; the profound unlikelihood of Aerosmith's second act in the 90s; why Starz is an important band; and much more.