Podcasts about tom how

BOSSes Anne Ganguza and Tom Dheere examine the state of the voiceover industry a few months into 2025. They discuss the direct impact of political and economic events on booking trends and content. The conversation explores how corporate messaging is adapting to cultural and policy changes, the ongoing role of authenticity, and the evolving, perhaps less threatening, landscape of AI. Ultimately, they offer a message of adaptation, education, and resilience for voice actors navigating the current climate.   00:03 - Anne (Host) Hey bosses, are you new to voiceover and not sure where to start? Join the VOPeeps VI Peeps membership and get access to over 350 hours of pre-recorded classes, a 15% discount on all VOPeeps, guest workshops and free monthly workouts. This membership is perfect for those wanting to get started in the industry. Find out more at vopeeps.com. Slash join dash now.  00:32 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) It's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. And successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today Rock your business like a boss a VO boss.  00:54 - Anne (Host) Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguza. Hey everyone, welcome to the VO Boss Podcast and the Real Boss Series. I'm your host, Anne Ganguza, and I'm here with the one and only Mr Tom Dheere. Hello, hello, hello, hi, tom. Oh goodness, tom, we're a few months into 2025, and it's been quite a year so far, wouldn't you say I would say yes, it has.  01:13 Lots of disruption going on in the world in so many ways I would say economically, socially, I mean. It's a new administration and I know that we spoke earlier about setting your goals and starting off on the right foot for 2025 and finding out who you are. Now that we're a few months in, I think we should go back and readdress what's happening. What's going on? How are you feeling about the state of things? Let's maybe open it up with the state of our industry, the voiceover industry. How are you feeling the state of voiceover is a few months into 2025?  01:49 - Tom What's interesting about it, Anne, is that your emotional state when you are watching the news or doom scrolling on social media is going to make you feel a certain way about how everything is going and, depending on your political inclination, you may think everything is going wonderfully or you may think everything is going terribly.  02:12 But then there's that pesky little thing called reality, which is the reality of how many auditions am I getting, how often am I booking, how much money am I making? Where are those voiceover bookings coming from? And, based on what's going on in the world, how much of that is directly or indirectly affecting our individual voiceover businesses?  02:39 - Anne (Host) Absolutely, and because we're service-based right. It affects us very much. Right, it affects us because companies are hiring us to, for the most part, entertain or sell. Right, and, depending on how the companies are feeling and companies are reacting to the issues that are going on in the world today, may have a direct impact on our business.  03:01 - Tom Yeah, so just as a point of reference, let's look at 2024. Our business? Yeah, so just as a point of reference, let's look at 2024. One of the major things that happened that had a huge impact on voiceover work was the presidential election, because, distressingly late in 2024, we weren't sure who was running for president on either side of the aisle, much less who their running mates were. That had a massive effect on corporations when it came to advertising budgets and what the content of the advertising would be. So last summer, 2024, july August there was a huge dip in voiceover work across the board because companies didn't know where to put their money.  03:46 - Anne (Host) Except in political maybe.  03:47 - Tom  Except in political.  03:48 And then when September, October, hit, the political campaigns all went crazy and a lot of the advertising got stopped up because so much ad space was being taken up by political advertising.  04:02 There was a noticeable drop in commercials for television and radio because all the political ad buys were taking up all the real estate. So that is one pretty clear, direct example about how what's going on in the real world affected what was going on in the voiceover industry. So let's look at spring of 2025 of what's going on right now is since there's virtually no political ads, as in campaign ads. I mean, there's a smattering of them here and there and a smattering of issue ads, but I didn't notice any more than there usually has been, which means the void that the political ads left got immediately taken up by commercials, left got immediately taken up by commercials. So there seems to be as much work as there was at any given time in recent voiceover history. I agree with you there. But the question is, what is the content and context of the ads and other voiceover genres and what are the casting demands and what are the performance demands for?  05:09 - Anne (Host)  Now also, we're thinking, I think, right now, commercial broadcast style voiceover. When we think about that, I agree with you that, yes, there's as much work, I think, as there ever has been. However, it's the content that might be changing and the context. You're absolutely right, but also there might be in terms of industrial content, like the industries that are advertising, the industries that are hiring voice talent that may or may not be broadcast. Maybe we're talking e-learning, we're talking corporate, we're talking all the different non-broadcast style voiceover. I think, in that realm where I'm seeing I'm not seeing a drop necessarily, but I'm seeing companies looking very carefully at what they're saying and what they want their brand message to be.  05:54 - Tom Yes.  05:54 - Anne (Host) And that is very key for somebody like myself if I produce demos, to make sure that the content is reflective of the culture and the society of the times.  06:06 - Tom Yes, culture definitely has an influence on advertising broadcast and it also has an influence on internal content, e-learning content, corporate industrial content. Actually, I just realized last year I had narrated an app for a large governmental organization, let's just say, and it was about harassment in the workplace and it was a big project and I did it all and the client was thrilled and I got paid and everything was great. Just a few days ago, the client wrote me and said hey, as a result of all of these executive orders that have been stripping away DEI policies and verbiage, I had to record a decent chunk of it all over again with the new policies and whatever we'll call it, awareness of it in mind.  07:01 - Anne (Host) Yeah, that's the biggest thing that I am seeing and, again, we're not here to be political. However, the two of us need to take a realistic look as to okay, so what are companies having to do to maybe adhere to policies? Because companies that maybe depended on support from the government may have to rewrite some policies. They may have to rethink how they're speaking, and that directly impacts a lot of the corporate work that I've done and also corporate training as well I do. The majority of my work in the e-learning aspect is through corporate.  07:34 I do some educational, which I think that also can be touched, but not in such a direct manner Like, let's say, dei or I'm just trying to think like, what other types of topics and support and safety and environmental. Let's think about environmental changes. Right Before, in a lot of corporate, there was a lot of talk about sustainability, talk about climate change. There was a lot of talk about sustainability, talk about climate change. Companies wanted their audiences to hear that they were supporting these things, because that's what mattered to the majority of people, that they wanted to be on board with them. Now, is that a thing when we're talking about alternative energy right, alternate energy are we going to now be talking about drilling and fracking versus, you know, solar power or those types of things.  08:18 - Tom  Yeah, absolutely, and top-down policies are going to have a trickle-down effect, but also, as in if federal laws are changing or being enacted or being repealed, that's going to have a big effect on a lot of the policies of the companies, because they have to be compliant with local, state and federal law to be able to run their business legally and effectively. So, yeah, it will definitely have a top-down effect. The other thing is economic.  08:47 - Anne (Host) Yes, we always have to look at the economics.  08:49 - Tom You always have to look at the economics of it, and we're still seeing what the full effect of all of these tariffs are going to be on multiple countries, which is going to the majority of economics say, regardless of your political bent, that this is going to create an increase in prices of many, many items. Or some items just may not be available in the United States to be imported and there's some based on reciprocal tariffs. There may be items that the United States manufacturers that cannot be exported.  09:23 - Anne (Host) Well, absolutely, and in terms of hiring, and in terms of hiring. In terms of hiring. I do know that I heard from one of my students, canadian students, that is it favorable now to be an American voicing a Canadian brand at this point?  09:38 Or vice versa, or vice versa, and so we have to think about that or any global brand. So it's interesting to really see. I think a lot of us are so in our studio bubbles that we forget how this impacts the industry, and it impacts our jobs. It can directly affect our jobs, and so it's something that we need to keep our eyes open to. And even though I know a lot of people are like I'm off social media or I you know, it's just sometimes it's difficult for people to watch the news I do think that we have to keep ourselves in touch enough to understand where the trends are going and what things are happening if we want to keep our businesses afloat. And now I guess the next question, Tom, is are we doom-scrolling our voiceover industry at this point? I mean?  10:27 - Tom How do you feel about it? There's a lot of hysteria and confusion and frustration and fear and anger on every social media platform that I have seen. Some of it is a healthy discourse, some of it is fear and hate-mongering. Some of it is a healthy discourse. Some of it is fear and hate mongering. Some of it is a cry for desperation and comfort and commiseration. It's a combination of all of those things.  10:44 So the question is do you shut off all of your social media and go take a walk? Sometimes that's a very, very good idea. But, just exactly to your point, anne, we need to keep an eye on what's going on. Also, all of the social media groups that we're on, they're national or international, so we can keep an eye on what's going on in other parts of the country and other parts of the industry and how it may or may not affect us. Like, for example, I just saw recently a social media post Somebody was talking about well, what happens if there's a recession? How is that going to affect the voiceover industry? Now, I don't know if you remember, but 2008, 2009, the great recession oh, I do. I did not remember and I went back and I looked at my numbers. I didn't notice any effect, noticeable effect, on it.  11:29 When COVID hit March of 2020, there was a noticeable dip, but then April it went right back up and 2020 was a pretty good year for me. But paying attention to things like that and you know, instead of being in your own little bubble, about being terrified about everything, but when you're actually doing your own research off of social media and looking for intelligent discourse on social media to find actual facts, and listening to people who've been around the block a few times, like you or I, who was like, yeah, no, the recession was not a big deal and oh, yeah, covid, things bounced back really quickly and, like I said, last year's, well, the strikes, the SAG-AFTRA strikes, the interactive strike, which is still ongoing, unfortunately, but hopefully they'll be able to fight for their rights and protect all of us. When it comes to AI and other bad practices, the voiceover industry seems to be relatively pliant and relatively resilient. Yes, because, no matter what, people are still trying to sell things. People are still trying to buy things.  12:28 I love that. You said that People still need to teach things. You know what I mean.  12:31 - Anne (Host) I mean, we are a company ourselves, right, we want to stay afloat.  12:34 We're right now looking at and if you aren't, you need to be right Always, you need to be looking at how are you going to stay afloat, how is your business going to continue to show progress, move forward, be successful?  12:46 And it just basically comes down to we're evolving. We're evolving with the times, right, and I think that I agree with you wholeheartedly that I don't think there's going to be any less of a demand for voiceover because, as you mentioned, companies still want to exist, they still want to sell a product, and so part of that sell is including a voice to speak the brand and to communicate that sell to others. And so I don't think it's doom scrolling, but I do believe that we need to educate ourselves on what the trends are, and not just the trends on the style of voiceover, although I think that it's good to understand, like, what's out there? How is that message being told? I always maintain that the best performance trend, the best voiceover performance trend to follow, is just be an actor, be a damn actor, right, because if you're an actor, you evolve, you can evolve and change, just like you need to do with your business.  13:44 And I think that you kind of touched on synthetic voices and AI Again, if we were to talk about how do you feel that that's affecting the industry these days? I can tell you, in my opinion, right now, I think that things are working themselves out, hopefully on a more positive note, and I don't think that the fascination is there for me. I'm not seeing the fascination there with voiceover jobs being stolen by AI. I believe that more of the focus needs to be on let's just protect our voices so that they're not being used without our permission and being developed into a synthetic voice. Or, if we have a synthetic voice, make sure that we're getting compensated for it. What are your thoughts?  14:22 - Tom  I generally agree, because everyone who decided that AI is the devil and decided not to get involved in any level of critical thinking or investigating about it, they have not changed their minds. The people that jumped in with both feet are probably still jumping in with both feet. What I think to your point you're saying is that everybody that wanted to give it a sniff, that wanted to try it out, test the water, has done it not just once, but maybe twice, because ChatGPT rolled out November 2022 and now we're in mid 2025. So I think there's been like At least from my observation, there's been like two rounds of companies giving AI a try. The first one was just to, oh, let's see what this is all about.  15:03 And then some were like, oh, this is great, this is perfect. Others are like, no, this is awful. And then there's others who, a year or so later, is like you know what? It's probably gotten two years better. Let's give it another try. And then same thing happens. Some thought, oh, okay, it's good enough now, or it's not good enough now, or making whatever decision. But yeah, the fervor from the consumer end, I think, has settled.  15:26 I think so too, and I think the terror from the voiceover end I think for the most part is settled. There's still questions about it.  15:33 - Anne (Host) Sure, and we've got great organizations fighting for us as well. Nava has been doing a phenomenal job in that regard, and if you're a business and you're not using AI in some capacity to manage your data, you're missing out. You're missing out on the boat, and we did talk about that previously in an episode, tom, you and I. It's just getting better and better at that, but it's not necessarily getting better at speaking your voice synthetically. But data management, I think, is just leaps and bounds and it's integrated in a lot of the products we're using and you may not even know it. It's kind of like.  16:07 I think I mentioned this to you before Back in the day I installed voice over IP phone systems when they first came out and people just said oh my God, they sucked, They'll never work, They'll never last, and ultimately, that's what we do today. I mean, it's all voice over IP. Everything that we're doing is we're communicating, Our phone lines are over data internet lines and it's just that's what's happening. Now. We have voice over IP and we don't even know it. It's seamless. So I believe that the AI data management is being built in seamlessly into things that we use like Google or I think you're using Google Workspace.  16:36 - Tom  I am using Google Workspace and Google Gemini is my favorite AI, google Gemini.  16:39 - Anne (Host) I have ChatGPT. I have a couple other products that do some automated things for me that are under the ChatGPT, and I continually look for tools that can help me to run my business more efficiently. So I don't think that in the voice realm of things. Oh my God. I just said a company.  16:54 - Tom  Naughty, naughty.  16:54 - Anne (Host) I didn't even know In the voiceover world. I don't know if synthetic voices are quite the terror and the scare that they were in the last couple of years.  17:03 - Tom  I still think the same thing is exactly what you and Andy said on that wonderful narratorlife interview that you did, which you said garbage in, garbage out. Good actors are going to make good AIs, bad actors are going to make bad AI are going to make bad AI. And the relevance gap I still think is growing, of people that are lacking in talent or training storytelling training, that are trying to enter the world of voiceover, are just not going to be able to get in. So I think that still stands.  17:28 - Anne (Host) And everybody I talk to we're talking about. Like anything today, if you want to capture someone's attention, right, marketing, wise, right it's all about authenticity. It's all about authenticity. It's all about give the human aspect to you. Even when I write a newsletter, it's like give somebody that vulnerable part of yourself that talks directly to them and doesn't just try to sell them or doesn't just try to, like, promote things. And give that authenticity. And I really believe that, as humans, that's who we are and that's what we have and that is just our strength. And when we are performing voiceover and we are voice actors, I think the more that we can be authentic in whatever genre we are voicing, the better off we are and the more successful we will be.  18:08 - Tom I agree. I had another thought about. Something that we were talking about a little earlier is that unemployment seems to be rising because of all of these federal layoffs.  18:19 Layoffs, yeah, and then as a result of tariffs.  18:20 if prices are going up, they have to maintain profit margins, so sometimes they need to cut labor. So what's been interesting in voiceover is that, as a result of AI, there has been less of the entry-level, lowest budget voiceover work, which means there's less opportunities for people who are entering the voiceover industry, and that may mean some people are not able to have a sustainable voiceover business model, so they're leaving the voiceover industry. However, if employment does keep going up the way that it does, does that mean more people are going to come back who want?  18:55 - Anne (Host) to give voiceover a shot. Yeah, exactly that was my experience when COVID happened.  19:01 And people, how many of my coaching business, I mean I had like tripled business with people who were using the time to learn voiceover and to get into voiceover and to utilize their voice for something good. I mean, I think that's still like. The desire of most people that get into this industry is they want to use their voice to do something good and, of course, make some money. Sure, that's always a key element to be successful in voiceover business. But what other aspects, tom, have we not covered here in this few months, now that we're in 2025? We've talked about, I mean, really, how dependent our industry is on the economy and the message that is out there, the brand that is out there.  19:50 - Tom Right. Yeah, it's dependent and it's independent at the same time, when we are getting into what seems to be a very interesting year on a sociological, social, cultural, political, economic level, what can we as voice actors do? So what should us bosses do? It's the same answer all the time, anne Right.  20:11 - Anne (Host) What do we do? Keep training, keep learning.  20:13 - Tom Keep growing, keep marketing, keep marketing. Keep following industry trends. Continue to have conversations with fellow voice actors. Continue to have conversations with your current and potential clients. Pay attention to what's going on on social media, but don't get sucked in by it. But pay attention, learn, grow, adapt, evolve and educate Educate yourself and educate each other.  20:33 - Anne (Host) Educate, adapt, evolve. I love that. Educate, adapt, evolve. I think that really should be our mantra for this year Educate, adapt, evolve and I think everything will be absolutely fine in this voiceover industry. And also just one thing that I want to make mention is that during those lean times where you may not be finding work or work slows down, it's always important to kind of go back and listen to other voiceover podcast episodes that I've had with Tom, of course, about your business and how to build your business and be successful, as well, as I've had a money series with Daniel Fambul, which talks about the fact that if times are lean for me or I'm considering investing more in my business, which would mean maybe I'm going to get coaching, maybe I'm going to get a new demo, maybe I'm going to get a new website which, by the way, I've done all those things and I've had to make a lot of investments this year, and so it's important to have the mindset right, the mindset of being willing to invest.  21:32 I think that's important being willing to invest in this career If you love this career and this is what you want to do and you want to grow, having the mindset of being willing to invest, and I, right now, in my own business, I've transitioned over to a new website, I'm doing a lot of new things that are on the scary side of things for me. I mean, I think if you're not scared every day, you're not taking a risk every day. And, by the way, this risk is not just a risk performance-wise or strategy-wise, it is a risk financially-wise, because I'm investing in a part of my business that I want to grow, and so it's not easy and it's scary, but it's something that I believe every boss needs to really take a look at and be willing to take a little bit of a risk. Take a look at and be willing to take a little bit of a risk, and I'm thankful that and, tom, we've talked about this I'm thankful that I have a little bit of a nest egg that I can make these investments yeah.  22:26 - Tom So my new mantra will now be if you're not taking risks, you're not trying, and if you're not scared you're not trying hard enough.  22:33 - Anne (Host) Oh, I like that a lot. Yeah, Tom. So I admit that I'm scared. Are you scared? Are you scared every?  22:39 - Tom  day. Am I conscious? Yes, of course I'm scared.  22:41 - Anne (Host) Yeah, what things scare you? I'm just curious what things scare you in running your business?  22:46 - Tom Well, I mean just as a basic normal, semi-normal neurotic human. I still have my imposter syndrome. I hear you I still have my FOMO.  22:55 I'm still afraid that 30 years later, that clients are just going to be like well we don't just like his face anymore and they're just not going to book me and they come back. They all come back, as in you know, most of them come back for all good reasons and other people don't come back for whatever other reason. 99% of the time has absolutely nothing to do with me. But my biggest fear is the fear of being irrelevant, and I've had a couple of times in my voiceover career where I, as a result of very poor business decision-making, I made myself less relevant.  23:28 The jumping off of Voice123 in 2013 and then being off it for seven years made me less relevant as a voice actor because I wasn't paying attention to what was going on in the industry. I was up my own you-know-what about it and making decisions based on fear, ego, insecurity and arrogance and ignorance.  23:47 - Anne (Host) Oh, my God, I just love that. You just you were so authentic with that. That's really wonderful. I mean, I love that you're sharing that with us because that's something that I think everybody can take and really learn from myself included taking these risks that have not always worked out and, yeah, a lot of it is because I was stubborn. I have a little bit of a stubborn streak. I'll admit to you that mine would be stubborn in feeling like what I was doing was the way and there was not another way to do.  24:18 It was the way and there was not another way to do it. And that stubbornness and not allowing myself to open my eyes, especially when because I hire a team of people right, and trying to do everything myself, thinking I was the only person that could do it, being that kind of a person, that control freak which I am that held me back. It was scary to me. I was scared that if I didn't control it myself, that I would lose control and that I wouldn't be able to grow the business. But quite the opposite happened. After all, that, when I allowed myself to be open to collaborating and working with others and it's one of the reasons why I love to collaborate with you, tom, because there's so much power in collaboration together and that is one of the basis is for when you want to run a strong business. I'll never forget Gary Vaynerchuk said hire people who are better than you to do those things and don't be afraid of that. Don't be scared of that and treat them right, because that's going to help you all grow and move forward.  25:07 - Tom Absolutely Surround yourself with smart people who disagree with you is another mantra that I've heard over the years, and it's really really true.  25:14 - Anne (Host) Yeah, yeah, I love it, tom. Thank you so much. I think that last nugget was the best of all out of this episode. I really love talking with you in these podcasts, so thanks again. I'm going to give a great big shout out to our sponsor, ipdtl. You too can connect and network like real bosses. You can find out more at IPDTL.com. Bosses have an amazing week and we'll see you next week. Bye.  25:41 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) Join us next week for another edition of VO Boss with your host, Anne Ganguza, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voboss.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies and new ways to rock your business like a boss. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via IPDTL.   

Treasure reads Matthew 6:9-13 and Tom How speaks on praying to Our Father in heaven at Pembury Baptist Church on 11th August 2024.

Patrick takes a closer look at the profound ethical dilemmas around end-of-life care, offering guidance and support for those facing tough medical decisions.   Ron - In order to extend my life, I need to take kidney dialysis. Is it okay for me to reject dialysis? (02:20) Roseanne - You took my call a few years ago and I was a mom of a daughter who is saying she is trans. I would like to offer a support group who might need help in this situation. Karen – Why can't a baby be delivered early instead of aborting it to save the mother's life? (18:50) Michael - Why doesn't the church discipline bad priests more? (23:29) Pam – The rise of transgenderism is because of the rising autism rates paired with the public encouraging them. Lilah – My father-in-law had cancer and used a morphine drip.  Would that be considered suicide? (32:42) Laurie – That hospital overstepped their boundaries (38:21) Tom - How do I remain in God's kindness?

Today on The Patrick Madrid Show, we dove deep into the heart of scripture and truth with listener Tom from Tennessee. We wrestled with the effects of the Reformation, the authority of scripture versus private interpretation, and the catholic tradition in understanding the Bible. A fascinating discussion unfolded around the essential question, 'Who determines truth?' Together, we explored the profound implications of scripture alone and the need for a solid interpretative key through apostolic tradition. If you've ever grappled with scripture's meaning or the pursuit of truth, stay tuned for a conversation that brings 2000 years of wisdom to the table.   Patrick continues his conversation with Ruth from the end of the previous hour about how to stand up for your beliefs Kevin - My grandma has had some health complications. When is the right time to administer last rights? (11:51) Diana - My friend got married in the church, then divorced, and now wants to get remarried without getting an annulment. What should I do? Tom - How can I discern when the scriptures need to be explained or when authority needs to be examined through scripture? (23:40) Janice (email) – It's been decades since I've practiced the Catholic faith, but after listening to Relevant Radio I'm ready to come back to the Church! Kelly – Can I take communion at a SSPX Mass wedding? (41:47)

Tom Greaves is an actor and comedian. He made an award winning show called, Goodbye Uncle Fudgey which was performed during the Edinburgh Fringe in 2023. It will be touring soon showing in London in April. This comedy tells the story of the fall out from boarding school. Tom trained at the world famous Ecole Philippe Gaulier clown school. Questions for Tom:How did you get into the work you now do?Could you please talk a little about your boarding school experiences? How was boarding for you?What was the impetus for you doing your show, Goodbye Uncle Fudgey?How did people respond to your show?What about your family? Your family play a large role in the show. How did they respond to your performance?What is the importance of humour as healing?How cathartic was it, writing about your boarding school experiences?Could you please talk about shame and emotions?Kairos and Chronos. What is the difference between the two? How have we lost touch with Kairos?How do people find out more about your work and upcoming shows?#humour #laughterasmedicine #comedy #trauma #boardingschool #tomgreavesTo find out more about Tom's shows please visit: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tom-greaves-a55baa23/?originalSubdomain=uk--- Piers is an author and a men's transformational coach and therapist who works mainly with trauma, boarding school issues, addictions and relationship problems. He also runs online men's groups for ex-boarders, retreats and a podcast called An Evolving Man. He is also the author of How to Survive and Thrive in Challenging Times. To purchase Piers first book: https://www.amazon.co.uk/How-Survive-Thrive-Challenging-Times/dp/B088T5L251/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=piers+cross&qid=1609869608&sr=8-1 For more videos please visit: http://youtube.com/pierscross For FB: https://www.facebook.com/pierscrosspublic For Piers' website and a free training How To Find Peace In Everyday Life: https://www.piers-cross.com/community Many blessings, Piers Cross http://piers-cross.com/

Tom Prochazka is a co-founder and director at Gravity Logic, a bike park design and development company based in Whistler, British Columbia. He served as the manager of the Whistler Bike Park from 2001 to 2007 and designed the iconic Top of the World Trail which opened in 2011. Since then he's worked on bike parks all over the world from the western US to Europe and South America. In this podcast interview we ask Tom: How did you get involved in mountain bike trail building? What do you think makes Whistler such a special place? What drove the huge increase in Whistler visits between 2001 and 2007? How did Gravity Logic get its start? Tell us how the Top of the World Trail came together. How is it different from the other trails in the bike park? What's your definition for the term "bike park"? Are for-profit park operators able to get a decent return on investment on a bike-only, ground-up build? How much work is involved in keeping bike trails running during the season?  Does a trail ever work exactly as planned on paper? Do builders and designers need to make adjustments once they see how people are riding the trail? Are there many tradeoffs between safety and fun when it comes to mountain bike trail design? It seems like most bike park visitors prefer flowy, jumpy trails to raw, technical lines. Why do you think so many mountain bikers like to complain about flow trails?  What are some of the latest trends you're seeing in bike park design today? Do you have a favorite park or trail that you like to ride? More information: Whistlergravitylogic.com Cover photo provided by Tom Prochazka. --Keep up with the latest in mountain biking at Singletracks.com and on Instagram @singletracks --- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/singletracks/support

Hennie reads from 1 Thessalonians 5:16-24 and Tom How continues the Watching and Waiting series - how are we waiting for Jesus? - at Pembury Baptist Church on Sunday 17th December 2023.

**Full Notes for the T&D LIVE Stream**:   1. **Strike Alert**: Seth has decided to go on strike. Why, and what are his demands?   2. **Negotiating with Tom**: How does Tom respond to Seth's strike, and what's the outcome of their negotiations?   3. **EJ's Input**: Regular caller EJ drops in with his two cents on the situation.   4. **Raise Poll**: The debate heats up as a call-in poll pits Seth against Sam for a raise. Who will the listeners favor?   5. **Game Night Observations**: Speculations arise as everyone comments on how Tom seemed unusually messed up during the Lightning game.   6. **Escalator Incident**: Tom narrates an awkward encounter on an escalator. Just another day in the life!   7. **Concert with the Boys**: Tom discusses the experience of taking his sons to a Willie Nelson concert. How did they react to the legend?   8. **Dirty Dads Chat**: A humorous segment where the conversation veers to "dirty dads".   9. **Hot Tub Tales**: The topic of heroin usage in hot tubs comes up, leading to some wild speculations.   10. **Cleaning Chronicles**: The nuances of cleaning the ice machine with bleach. It's more exciting than it sounds!   11. **Post Office Panty Sale**: Discover the bizarre world of selling panties at the post office.   12. **City Match**: A touching anecdote about a single dad with a crying kid at the City match.   13. **Fog Chiller Fun**: What's a fog chiller, and why are Tom & Dan talking about it?   14. **Postal Worker Prank**: A hilarious recounting of a prank pulled on a postal worker.   15. **Max's Wisdom**: Max proves to be smarter than Tom in a debate over "final vs. finale".   16. **Rope Revelations**: The conversation takes a twist as the topic of battle rope intestines comes up.   17. **Final Thoughts**: A lighthearted debate: Is it diabetes or is someone just an alcoholic?   ---   **Stay Connected:**   - [Website: Tom & Dan](https://tomanddan.com/) - [Twitter: Tom & Dan on Twitter](https://twitter.com/tomanddanlive) - [Facebook: Tom & Dan on Facebook](https://www.facebook.com/AMediocreTime) - [Instagram: Tom & Dan on Instagram](https://www.instagram.com/tomanddanlive/)   **Tune In & Turn Up:**   - [Apple Podcasts: A Mediocre Time with Tom & Dan](https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/a-mediocre-time-with-tom-and-dan/id308614478) - [Google Podcasts: A Mediocre Time with Tom & Dan](https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9hbWVkaW9jcmV0aW1lLmxpYnN5bi5jb20vcnNz?sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwj6x-_il7mBAxX2moQIHRosAQwQ9sEGegQIARAC) - [TuneIn: A Mediocre Time with Tom & Dan](https://tunein.com/podcasts/Comedy/A-Mediocre-Time-with-Tom-and-Dan-p393884/)   **A Corporate Time with Tom and Dan:**   - [Apple Podcasts: A Corporate Time with Tom & Dan](https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/a-corporate-time-with-tom-and-dan/id994667625) - [Google Podcasts: A Corporate Time with Tom & Dan](https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5saWJzeW4uY29tLzYxOTc2L3Jzcw?sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwj6x-_il7mBAxX2moQIHRosAQwQ9sEGegQIARAD) - [TuneIn: A Corporate Time with Tom & Dan](https://tunein.com/podcasts/Comedy/A-Corporate-Time-with-Tom-and-Dan-p1836090/)   **Unlock the BDM Vault:**   - [Join the BDM crew at BDM Registration](https://tomanddan.com/registration) for extra shows, OG episodes, and private BDM parties.   **Rock Our Swag:**   - [Elevate your style with the latest Tom & Dan merchandise](https://tomanddan.myshopify.com/)   **Join the Live Stream Party:**   - Experience our daily live streams on [Twitch](https://www.twitch.tv/tomanddanlive) or [YouTube

Tracy reads Matthew 14:22-36 and Tom How speaks on the miracle of Jesus and Peter walking on the water at Pembury Baptist Church on 13th August 2023.

Patrick answers listener questions about what to do if you see a non-Catholic receiving Communion, do angels and demons have free will, and how to respond when a non-Catholic asks about “Catholic guilt” Diana - I thought one of the features of the Apostolic Pardon could be granted when person is unconscious. Is that true? Michelle - Works at a local Catholic university that promotes a woke agenda, including enneagrams and yoga. How can I handle this? Do I have any responsibility to stop a non-Catholic from receiving Communion? Leslie – My friend's kid is falling away from the faith and really struggling. How can we help? Rocco - In iconography, Jesus holds up 2 fingers up, what does that signify? Tom - How can I engage more with classical literature? Was there a saint who wrote about classical literature? Dan - Hebrew Scriptures: in the Torah, the same word is used for angels and demons, and neither of these creatures has free will. How can Christians believe that angels and demons have free will? Audio: Republican representative from Ohio Jim Jordan grills FBI director Christopher Wray for spying on Traditional Latin Mass Catholics Julie - How can I respond to non-Catholics when they say the church makes you feel guilty and that the Church is legalistic?

Speaking about her experience for the first time, Payton McNabb shared her experience competing and being injuring by a biological male in a high school sport -  Joyce - We do highbred homeschool for our kids. It is less expensive Ernie - How do we know that Mary didn't have any more children? Why do we call Pastors Father when we have only have one Father in heaven? David - If you did a sin in ignorance in your past and realized it was a sin later, do you need to confess it? David - What if we had student strikes for the trans issue? Would that work? Patrick - What was meaning of a pope writing a bull? Anna - I don't feel anything at a Catholic Church even though I go with my husband. When we went to a Pentecostal Church, I felt emotions. Is that bad? Tom - How do Apostolic Blessings work for those near death? Edwin - Why do Catholics pray to Mary? Sal - My godmother, who is fallen away Catholic, is on her death bed. Can I ask her to get last rights? Jim - The reason for the separation of the bathrooms is biological not sociological.

Create a safe haven for birds in your area. This episode is about how to attract birds to your garden, balcony or nature strip.Tom Hunt is an ecologist on the Wild Deserts project, with work focusing on birds, plants, habitat restoration and wildlife conservation. Growing up surrounded by bushland and birds in the Adelaide Hills, Tom has been a keen nature lover for as long as he can remember. The career he's made out of that passion that has taken him to every corner of Australia to work on conservation projects. He also tries to sneak in as much extra birdwatching as he can both at home and in the field.Links:* Episode transcript - weekendbirder.com/episodes/35-bird-friendly-gardens-with-tom* Tom on Twitter - @moth_nut* Tom on Instagram - @moth_nut* Wild Deserts Project - nsw.edu.au/research/ecosystem/our-research/wild-deserts* ABC interview with Tom - How to Attract Native Birds to Your Garden - abc.net.au/everyday/how-to-attract-native-birds-to-your-backyard/100005282* Birdlife Australia - Birds in Backyards - Gardening for Birds - birdsinbackyards.net/Your-Garden-How-make-it-safe-haven-birds/Gardening-Birds* Birdlife Australia - Birds in Backyards - Nest Box Plans - birdsinbackyards.net/Nest-Box-Plans* Darryl Jones books about feeding birds - unsw.press/authors/darryl-jones/* Safe Cats Safe Wildlife - safecat.org.auBird calls were recorded by Marc Anderson and licensed from www.wildambience.comWeekend Birder online:* Website - weekendbirder.com* Instagram - @weekend.birder* Facebook - @weekend.birder* Threads - @weekend.birder* Twitter/X - @birderpod Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Dan reads from Matthew 21 of the entry into Jerusalem of Jesus and Tom How preaches on expecting and encountering the King of Glory.

Patrick answers listener questions, such as, what made Pope Benedict a great theologian, what does the tombs of the saints opening up mean, and what it means to “offer it up?” Miami hotel stripped of liquor license after kids attend drag show Angry wife helps husband score $1M lottery jackpot Patrick shares the story of when he played the scratch lottery Paul - Can you explain the concept of offering things up? David - What made Pope Benedict such a great theologian? Tom - How did King Naaman's servant Gehazi get healed of leprosy after he took silver from the prophet? Anonymous – An old flame has contacted me, even though he knows I'm married. It's important to always keep our guard up. If you're married & you're on Social Media, you should read this: https://patrickmadrid.com/if-youre-married-and-youre-on-facebook-read-this/ Lorenzo - Matt 27: 52 – What does the tombs of the saints opening up mean?

Today my guest is Retired Homicide Detective Tom McAndrew What we discuss with Tom: How and why he got into law enforcement Pursuing his education while working in law enforcement His involvement in the Pennsylvania State Police Criminal Investigation Assessment Unit Investigative Genetic Genealogy and how it is used in cold cases The initiative he started in Pennsylvania to locate and identify unidentified decedents How he got involved with the Vidocq Society Some examples of cold cases that he helped to solve His thoughts on the most important advancements in forensic investigations throughout his career Links for this episode: Health Podcast Network  LabVine Learning The ConfLab from LabVine Dress A Med scrubs   Pennsylvania State Police Vidocq Society Investigative Genetic Genealogy Innovative Forensic Investigations Beth Doe Case Boy In The Box Case   People of Pathology Podcast: Website Twitter Instagram

Patrick answers listener questions about Catholic Rites, preaching to Jehovah Witnesses, what to do about occult ads, is it okay to say “God bless You” and can we offer up our guilt as suffering Kristen - What rite in the Catholic Church was the first rite created by Jesus? Christina - My Priest will be preaching to Jehovah Witness in a hospital. How can he prepare for this event? Patrick responds to an email about occult adds that popped up on a listener's TV screensaver Jesse - As a Eucharistic minister, I can't by Cannon law bless someone who comes up for a blessing. How can I work around this? Am I allowed to say “God bless you” to someone? Jose - How can I talk with a Protestant about the timeline of the Catholic Church? Brandon - Can we offer up suffering as a result of guilt from sinning? Tom – How do I responds to a protestant who is telling me that I am too focused on the 'law' as a Catholic.

The FL board of Medicine is taking testimony about the issues with Transgender transitioning.  Tony - Do you know about the Four Red Heifers from shipped from Texas to Israel for a sacrifice to build a new temple? Pamela - I am considering coming into the Catholic Church from Mormonism. Where can I look for Catholic Resources? Tom - How can I talk with people who believe that there is no Pope since Vatican 2? Shelby – I loved hearing Fr. Simon and Fr. Rocky on Celebrity InQUIZition Cheryl - Father Eric at Saint Ambrose in Salt Lake City would welcome the caller who is looking into the Church. Dan - Could you expand upon the gift of tears? Terri - Do I need to pray for my deceased mom since she received the apostolic blessing before she died?

Patrick answers listener questions about donating to non-Catholic charities, if the Rosary is a weapon, taking the Lord's name in vain, and why Lutheran pastors can't consecrate the Host and if Lutheran's have their sins absolved. Patrick responds to an email about donating money to a non-Catholic charity in-lieu of flowers Angela - I disagree with you on praying the rosary while eating, driving and praying the Rosary. Tom - How should I respond to someone that says the Rosary is NOT a weapon? Mark - What does it mean to not take the lords name in vain? Todd - I buy and sell stuff: Is there anything I should not be selling or buying? Patrick responds to an email which claims our calls are stagged. They 100% are not. Every call we air and every email we read is from a real listener like you. Theresa - What is the Churches teaching on people who read minds? James - Why can't a Lutheran pastors consecrate the Host? How do Lutheran's get their sins absolved? Patrick recommends “There we Stood, Here We Stand” by Tim Drake Holly - How do I tell my Baptist family that I am converting to Catholic? Bee - How many times should I forgive a family member who keeps abusing me verbally?

Tracy reads James 1:17-27 and Tom How preaches on faith and works, advising us to 'just do it!' at Pembury Baptist Church on 14th August 2022.

Email from Tom – How is it that God needs us humans? Email from Lilly – Can I get some books for a Catholic Conference to help convert my friends? Email from Victoria – Please recommend some books for a young person who isn't Christian. Anthony - Were Adam and Eve in heaven or on earth when they were created? Fewer in U.S. Now See Bible as Literal Word of God Quarter of voters say they may soon have to take up arms against the government: Poll - Washington Times John – We should get behind Gun control as Catholics Dan - I have a civilly gay married brother. I have some young children--his partner will be coming too. My kids are very impressionable. What should I do? They are NOT staying with me.

Patrick responds to an email asking about Nancy Pelosi receiving communion at the Vatican  Dawn – I'm a professional musician and was hired by a band that has music that relates to Satan. I quit. What are your thoughts?  Tim - You said that St Augustine said “miracles are no longer necessary.” Where can I find that quote?  E Frank - Is practicing sacramental life necessary to be part of the Catholic Church?  John - How should I answer my protestant friends who say they KNOW they are saved?  Tom - How can anyone be denied communion at one church but then receive it at another church?  Denise - 'Rules for Radicals': Do you think that Saul Alinsky had something to do with the infiltration of the church 

Daph reads Mark 15:25-39 and Tom How preaches the last in the 'At One with God' series, focussing on the death of Jesus and God's scarred hands.

Daph reads Mark 15:25-39 and Tom How preaches the last in the 'At One with God' series, focussing on the death of Jesus and God's scarred hands.

Have you blacked out on alcohol? Cause I for suuure have. Over the past 10 years I've gone on a rollercoaster of a ride journey with alcohol.I've had some of the best of times with it & also some of the darkest times. Through this journey I've learned to become more intentional with when I send it and for what reason.I've also learned the steps to take so that I can remember the night and feel decent by the morning.Today we're diving into the 6 lessons I've learned from drinking too much.     6 lessons I've learned to avoid blacking out 1 : Prepare yourself ahead of time by making sure you're eating enough calories and drinking enough water before you go out.  2 : Be very intentional about when you send it and for what occasion. I no longer just drink to drink, I try to find a valid reason otherwise I'll pass on it for the night which makes it much more enjoyable when I do give myself the green light.  3 : It's a marathon not a sprint. Be very mindful of what you're drinking and how often because these drinks can add up quickly which can result in you getting too drunk too quick.  4 : Mixing in waters often helps you not get drunk too quickly and helps from having a hangover the next day. 5 : Don't cave to peer pressure. If someone offers me a shot and I don't want it, I say no. I don't care what their reaction might be or what they may say, I do what's best for me. 6 : Be very mindful of your decisions while drinking. Easier said than done, yes, but absolutely crucial and necessary.     Challenge for the listeners Spend 10 minutes within the next 24hrs and reflect on your journey with alcohol. Has it been smooth sailing, a bumpy ride similar to mine or maybe nothing all that great? I'm not here to suggest you quit drinking or fill up another cup but I challenge you to block out what society may be leading you to believe or what your peers may say and instead ask yourself : Do I like the direction I'm headed and if not, what changes would I like to make?      Questions from SDI Community Ashe : Tips for limiting alcohol intake when out? Having trouble with blacking out Ashe : Have you struggled with alcohol anxiety? Tom : How do you say “no” when friends are asking you to drink or go out?  Fidel : How did you deal with social anxiety when you first slow down your drinking? Matt : The decision / feeling to have a drink again after a period of sobriety?     Pod review of the week -Mattay     Get hydrated with Liquid I.V.! Use my promo code “THEBEARDEDMAN” for 25% off every order Liquid-iv.com     Check out the Stay Dialed In App! Sign up for the Stay Dialed In Newsletter! You wanna help blow this podcast up? GREAT! Here's how: Leave a 5 star review on the podcast app with your hot take of the show Share out the episode on your IG story tagging me @Bobbbaaaay —- Follow The Bearded Man! TikTok : @Bobbbaaaay Instagram : @Bobbbaaaay YouTube : @BobbyHobert Twitter : @Bobbbaaaay Website : ItsTheBeardedMan.com 

Tom How continues the Finding Faith and Freedom series at Pembury Baptist Church on 16th January 2022, speaking from Galatians 2:11-21 about justification and faith. Sue reads the scripture.

Tom How preaches at Pembury Baptist Church on 31st October 2021 from John 14:1-14 as part of the What a Friend we have in Jesus sermon series. He focuses on worship and word.

We're closing out season 6 of the Cultivation Podcast with a very special guest...My wife, Jami Hammel! She joins me for the second time on the podcast for an unscripted discussion as we wrap up the theme of self-care.   We talk about what self-care looks like, overcoming parental guilt, navigating the seasons of life, the need for a date night, supporting each other's hobbies, and sharing success.   See some of our discussion below and be sure to listen so you hear the full, in-depth discussion:   Tom: What is self care to you?  Jami: Self-care is a lot of different things and it looks older when I was younger with young kids. Self-care is a little bit of alone time. I enjoy shopping alone or getting a manicure, pedicare, massage, or getting coffee by myself.     Tom: What would you say to yourself about the guilt of self-care? Jami: There's the “Mom guilt” of feeling we're not taking care of the kids, and you have to realize it's okay to take care of yourself. You can't go, go, go all the time, you need down time.    Tom: How important is self care to a relationship? Jami: Date night is super important, we do it every week. Maybe it's simple, we just go out for coffee and talk...Being intentional is the key because it's never perfect.   Tom: How important is it to support each other's interests and share successes? Jami: It's super important to give you space to do what they love to do, even if it's not your biggest interest.   Tom: I try to be invested in your success. Jamie is a health coach and the face of that, I'm the support of that. So, I'm always trying to figure out where I can help and I'm seeing the reverse investment in myself.  Jami: I wouldn't be as successful without your help and encouragement. And, everyone can do that for their spouse. I think words of encouragement go a long way.

01:07:28.980 --> 01:07:40.710 Paul Casey: it's a great day to grow forward thanks for joining me for today's episode with Tom Olson Tom is the general manager of our local costco in kennewick and I.   432 01:07:41.460 --> 01:07:51.420 Paul Casey: asked him if there's anything quirky bottom, he said he was a pretty straightforward guy but he did mention he's got a little OCD so Tom tell us a little bit about your OCD.   433 01:07:52.830 --> 01:07:57.960 W486MGR: All right, yeah I guess it's that's a tough thing to talk about I could give you a couple of examples.   434 01:07:59.220 --> 01:08:08.310 W486MGR: So on the homefront i'm kind of got to have all my short sleeve shirts in one area my long sleeve, and I kind of have them color eyes.   435 01:08:09.630 --> 01:08:21.480 W486MGR: I cancer kind of the same way and I get a little irritated it's off Center but I like tire and I like to the body, so I hope my wife out but I took us probably about as quirky as I get at home, it away.   436 01:08:22.860 --> 01:08:23.460 Paul Casey: Thank you.   437 01:08:26.520 --> 01:08:30.780 Paul Casey: Well we'll dive in after checking with our tries to the influencers sponsor.   438 01:08:32.160 --> 01:08:36.390 Paul Casey: Thank you for your support of leadership development in the tri cities.   439 01:08:36.780 --> 01:08:53.220 Paul Casey: Well, welcome Tom I was privileged to meet you in our in a church small group and we call ourselves the business band of brothers and we get to we get to meet every Wednesday morning first thing and encourage each other and boy it's just been a delight getting to know you that way.   440 01:08:54.450 --> 01:09:02.400 W486MGR: yeah absolutely I think that's looking back at the last you know well, basically, after the first year it's probably.   441 01:09:03.090 --> 01:09:14.280 W486MGR: One of the more important things for me personally just just us leaders and not just happened men, you know husbands are getting together and kind of an accountability group it's been great.   442 01:09:16.050 --> 01:09:30.480 Paul Casey: It has been great will flourish tri city employee influencers get to know you a little bit Tom tell us about tell us a little bit about costco and your role there and what you spend 80% of your day doing.   443 01:09:30.690 --> 01:09:48.360 W486MGR: Sure sure well hopefully most most people that listen to the podcast have been out a costco or been to this costco which, which I find most places I go the tri cities, everyone knows where we're at, but you know, we obviously a big volume unit in retail us, you know just.   444 01:09:49.620 --> 01:09:49.950 W486MGR: We.   445 01:09:50.970 --> 01:10:08.010 W486MGR: We obviously move groceries non food, so we have everything under one roof, but you know my job as a general manager, this is very high volume in here in kennewick, and so we have about 500 employees and 20 I think 23 departments so really my job is going around.   446 01:10:09.330 --> 01:10:18.600 W486MGR: looking a little bit of the details understanding their business, a lot of it is just motivation going around and and encouraging, especially after a tough, you know this last year and a half for sure.   447 01:10:19.170 --> 01:10:28.770 W486MGR: talking with the employees being true to their Square and and they're they're on board emotionally and cost goes here to help them out there, but you know.   448 01:10:29.700 --> 01:10:39.660 W486MGR: it's a lot of motivation this job you know we have a limited amount of skews or the from the business aspect not too taxing just a lot of motivating quite honestly.   449 01:10:40.950 --> 01:10:42.540 Paul Casey: Why do you love what you do Tom.   450 01:10:45.450 --> 01:10:59.610 W486MGR: yeah I was thinking through that question, and I really had two answers the first one is I love the dinette the business dynamic of costco I love the value element of.   451 01:11:00.750 --> 01:11:08.730 W486MGR: You know the giving people a value for their money and it's been that way for almost 37 years now just I like the value dynamic.   452 01:11:09.360 --> 01:11:17.970 W486MGR: More importantly, is is I like the LIFE changing dynamic have seen you know i've been around the world, literally with costco and just him.   453 01:11:18.660 --> 01:11:33.750 W486MGR: Involving myself in people's lives, seeing them grow and mature and reach their you know goals as leaders in our company and teaching our business dynamic which is awesome So those are the two things that really keeps me honestly going every single day.   454 01:11:34.680 --> 01:11:38.700 Paul Casey: And it sounds like you're a CEO you're the chief encouraging officer.   455 01:11:41.010 --> 01:11:44.490 W486MGR: I always am the barnabas barnabas of commerce, calm yes.   456 01:11:46.560 --> 01:11:56.400 Paul Casey: yeah for sure yeah for you folks that don't go to church out there barnabas is a biblical character of like he was an encourage or he came alongside people.   457 01:11:58.710 --> 01:12:09.330 Paul Casey: Pretty cool that's pretty cool and, if I remember your story right you've been here a long time or costco you've been with them, for many, many years tell us a little bit about your journey there.   458 01:12:09.810 --> 01:12:10.260 yeah.   459 01:12:12.000 --> 01:12:15.210 W486MGR: You know, really simple I went to.   460 01:12:16.320 --> 01:12:26.610 W486MGR: Gonzaga Washington state went back to Gonzaga my mom was a professor at Gonzaga so plan graduate with a degree in history to teach high school and.   461 01:12:27.660 --> 01:12:37.080 W486MGR: coach athletics, and then costco I got hired on student employment their third building it was one of the first 600 people hired employment at Gonzaga and.   462 01:12:38.940 --> 01:12:46.710 W486MGR: I remember my mom cried for like days when I told her I wasn't going into education, I decided to stick on with costco and and it's it's.   463 01:12:47.340 --> 01:12:57.870 W486MGR: Because i'm, the last of the baby boomers I heard him explain the generational you know the the baby boomers generation X and i'm in the last year of people who just get one job and stick with it, I guess.   464 01:12:59.430 --> 01:13:00.690 W486MGR: On the original.   465 01:13:01.110 --> 01:13:01.830 Owners but.   466 01:13:02.880 --> 01:13:08.130 W486MGR: Just love like I said it's been simple to stay just because it's a great company in the things things that you're so.   467 01:13:09.840 --> 01:13:12.420 Paul Casey: Good stuff yeah it was it was in Japan is that.   468 01:13:12.630 --> 01:13:14.790 W486MGR: You also went with guns yeah yeah it.   469 01:13:14.970 --> 01:13:17.370 W486MGR: In 2014 2015.   470 01:13:18.780 --> 01:13:25.440 W486MGR: I was able to go over to Japan as a director, and so I have nine buildings between Tokyo and Hiroshima and.   471 01:13:26.640 --> 01:13:36.060 W486MGR: was able to spend time over there kind of an expansion of of encouragement they're having multiple buildings and then came back in 2017.   472 01:13:37.380 --> 01:13:41.700 W486MGR: it's been a brief time with corporate and then I really didn't do last for four years and.   473 01:13:43.110 --> 01:13:44.460 W486MGR: love the location or.   474 01:13:45.420 --> 01:13:50.130 Paul Casey: It can we let the cat out of the bag there's a new casco coming to town right.   475 01:13:50.190 --> 01:14:01.920 W486MGR: yeah yeah that I think that came out in the news, a few months ago yeah we've we've got the blessing for that, which is good news for the tri cities and they're treated costco very well and.   476 01:14:03.570 --> 01:14:14.940 W486MGR: You know I haven't heard a lot about how it's moved I heard it's moving slow like a lot of construction now just due date, you know hands and having proves big enough and supplies.   477 01:14:16.200 --> 01:14:22.950 W486MGR: But it's but it's out there and it's kind of it's kind of happen, which is awesome that's great for the tri cities so.   478 01:14:23.880 --> 01:14:32.370 Paul Casey: It will well you've got 500 employees 23 departments, who do you choose to surround yourself with on your team to help.   479 01:14:32.730 --> 01:14:44.790 Paul Casey: You in the organization be successful so within costco and then, if you think about outside of costco are there, people that you associate with to help you be successful outside the building.   480 01:14:45.300 --> 01:14:47.100 W486MGR: yeah that's a great question.   481 01:14:48.750 --> 01:14:55.950 W486MGR: You know, having to teach that same dynamic to my managers of Detroit that surround yourself with people that think exactly like you do.   482 01:14:56.430 --> 01:15:06.180 W486MGR: Up it took me quite a few years, I have three immediate assistant managers that that work directly with me and I make a point of it.   483 01:15:07.230 --> 01:15:08.910 W486MGR: In when interviewing to just.   484 01:15:10.410 --> 01:15:22.350 W486MGR: not make the mistake is running people that think, just like me, you know I i'm a pretty animated guy i'm pretty high strong believer not and I am a stickler on details and.   485 01:15:23.490 --> 01:15:38.040 W486MGR: I ordered but i'm really transparent and honest and forthright, and so I appreciate that for my immediate assistance, I know that when I do kind of mix up things or mess up something I have a relationship with a couple of my systems where they can come in and close door and go hey.   486 01:15:39.210 --> 01:15:46.200 W486MGR: You know that wasn't so cool that interaction need to circle back, and you know i'm learning, the most important words you know.   487 01:15:46.680 --> 01:15:52.590 W486MGR: over my career of saying hey i'm sorry, are you know hey I messed that up and yeah here's what I really meant.   488 01:15:53.340 --> 01:16:03.870 W486MGR: And costco has all the triggers to set things sideways I mean our volume the stress of the job, the amount of people you see each day and we're we're very busy unit so.   489 01:16:04.650 --> 01:16:17.370 W486MGR: it's important to surround myself with people that can say that without fear of an email he's gonna he's going to be really upset so i'm always thankful to the person who bring some of that stuff to my attention.   490 01:16:18.900 --> 01:16:22.110 W486MGR: I think that's the first key and then outside of work.   491 01:16:24.660 --> 01:16:30.360 W486MGR: know that lonely at the top thing is somewhat true that's why I think i've kind of enjoyed our relationship and smoker you know.   492 01:16:31.620 --> 01:16:41.250 W486MGR: it's important to have accountability to some group of people or someone if you want to grow and it's easy when you're at the top, you know you're basically.   493 01:16:42.180 --> 01:16:54.150 W486MGR: i'm it know 400 miles away from our corporate office and it's easy to kind of go out on your own so accountability is important and, of course, my wife, you know she squares me up daily you know, which is important.   494 01:16:55.380 --> 01:16:59.070 W486MGR: You have to kind of keep some kind of keeps me in a box, which is good.   495 01:17:00.090 --> 01:17:09.270 Paul Casey: Sure yeah love the diversity of thought surround yourself with people who aren't clones of yourself but have a different talent mix different perspective.   496 01:17:09.660 --> 01:17:20.970 Paul Casey: And also surrounding yourself with people that speak with candor and allowing that candor and not snuffing it out, but know welcoming that feedback from your inner circle is so huge.   497 01:17:21.390 --> 01:17:30.750 W486MGR: yeah I am you know, I was talking with my staff and the meeting this morning, you know with being a successful we're one of the few retailers, where people stand in line to wait outside and.   498 01:17:31.260 --> 01:17:41.040 W486MGR: We got our yearly meeting every year for weekend Seattle, the number one thing right as a company is being arrogant, you know the arrogance and the pride.   499 01:17:42.540 --> 01:17:51.870 W486MGR: are dangerous, and so I try and emulate that in the fact of the way we deal with our Members are refund policy, what we do.   500 01:17:53.100 --> 01:17:57.420 W486MGR: it's easy to get arrogant and prideful and those are dangerous.   501 01:17:58.590 --> 01:18:03.960 W486MGR: And so i'm not I don't want to be that way when people give me feedback, I give them chemical feedback are expected the same way.   502 01:18:05.490 --> 01:18:10.140 W486MGR: As long as it's in truth and with respect, I mean that's that's important so.   503 01:18:12.180 --> 01:18:23.610 Paul Casey: Maybe you're answering my next question with some of that right there Tom of having a growth mindset and how do you keep evolving as a leader after doing it for so many years, with the same company at the highest levels.   504 01:18:24.210 --> 01:18:27.840 Paul Casey: what's what's in your own personal and professional development plan.   505 01:18:28.380 --> 01:18:29.910 W486MGR: yeah great question.   506 01:18:32.250 --> 01:18:43.500 W486MGR: You know, some of it i'll be honest with you has been accidental or you know some of it has been costco and their training, you know they've been forward thinking, I think, was forward thinking.   507 01:18:44.790 --> 01:19:03.330 W486MGR: Our mantra the last few years and it's i've evolved with it is being a leader and not a manager, now we talked about you manage your checking account manager bank account manager, you know you manager yards your yard and your fertilizer but you need people on and how you need you know.   508 01:19:06.030 --> 01:19:19.020 W486MGR: I try and be open, you know I trying to be open to ideas, although there are times, where I don't always agree with everything that's that's talked about I feel like you have to stand for something you have your own personal beliefs.   509 01:19:21.000 --> 01:19:32.370 W486MGR: But I try and forward think you know right like right now we're already planning this week for November, December and January the holidays, how are we going to get through the holidays, what are we going to do we don't wait for it to sneak up on us.   510 01:19:35.430 --> 01:19:41.220 W486MGR: And it's been hard because i'm at the older end now, the man leadership's back on the costco you know.   511 01:19:42.300 --> 01:19:48.000 W486MGR: Is ease and the exercise it's been hard to relate and communicate and.   512 01:19:49.050 --> 01:20:00.990 W486MGR: i've had to learn about because we're constantly relearning you know don't understand necessarily their thought process I got there, there are part of our workforce, and so I try and re educate myself as I can.   513 01:20:01.740 --> 01:20:11.850 Paul Casey: You know that's a good point how what have you seen has been the biggest benefits conflict in between the different generations when it comes to communication.   514 01:20:12.330 --> 01:20:21.300 Paul Casey: What have you learned you've had to adjust to because it's not it's not the baby Boomer way you know, to communicate that way, what have you learned.   515 01:20:21.660 --> 01:20:22.050 Now.   516 01:20:23.880 --> 01:20:28.890 W486MGR: boy I think you know learned a lot about myself, you know the willingness to change number one.   517 01:20:30.030 --> 01:20:30.930 W486MGR: Number two.   518 01:20:32.910 --> 01:20:39.870 W486MGR: We talked about it a couple weeks ago, as a group, as a regional meeting or retail meeting we had on the phone and.   519 01:20:42.090 --> 01:20:57.570 W486MGR: The encouraging thing I found is whether you know we can put labels on everybody, but I think when you talk about compassion, we all share compassion, I think all of the generations, want to feel good about the work they do and how they're doing.   520 01:20:58.890 --> 01:21:05.490 W486MGR: it's just how do you cultivate it from each different, and I find it with honesty and it's what the compassion, you know and being appreciative.   521 01:21:06.750 --> 01:21:13.800 W486MGR: You know, when I first started out in the early at these working you know appreciation wasn't necessarily part of the workforce.   522 01:21:13.890 --> 01:21:21.000 W486MGR: He was like you're you're getting paid that should be good enough and you don't just spend a lot of my time.   523 01:21:21.780 --> 01:21:27.030 W486MGR: Like today I walked in and through three people at six o'clock morning hey you got a minute before you leave today.   524 01:21:27.540 --> 01:21:43.410 W486MGR: They would turn you off today can I talk to you for a second you know and they they want to feel included in the compassion so that's important but yeah it's it's a boy you can't sit still on it, because i'm going to do you're behind the curve for sure.   525 01:21:44.190 --> 01:21:54.810 Paul Casey: yeah like I said managing it we manage people and we met projects and budgets and facilities, but we lead people, and that is a different mindset.   526 01:21:55.860 --> 01:22:02.880 Paul Casey: Even though we're called managers, many of us where we are, we are the leaders and we got to put on our leader had every day.   527 01:22:03.180 --> 01:22:12.120 W486MGR: yeah absolutely absolutely and you know some of these are in their 20s and 30s now we're part of a large generation of divorces and moms.   528 01:22:12.540 --> 01:22:18.120 W486MGR: Who were kids post it, and so I find I connect with that group Berlin Wall, they just want to know, someone cares.   529 01:22:19.410 --> 01:22:30.120 W486MGR: They interact with them and I get 100% almost buy in because I truly appreciate, they just want contact in which it's an interesting group of degeneration nerve but.   530 01:22:31.200 --> 01:22:38.640 W486MGR: everyone's, as you know, everyone's different than in the workforce it's if it's always changing and i'm not perfect, for sure so.   531 01:22:40.650 --> 01:22:42.990 Paul Casey: appreciation is like oxygen I think.   532 01:22:43.050 --> 01:22:43.650 W486MGR: Oh it's.   533 01:22:45.270 --> 01:22:46.740 W486MGR: great praise great word.   534 01:22:49.020 --> 01:22:57.480 Paul Casey: Well, how about when you're in when you're in a leadership position with that many people under you or you get moved toss from store to store over your career.   535 01:22:57.870 --> 01:23:12.300 Paul Casey: there's probably a temptation for burnout and maybe even a drift towards negativity because of the stress that people are under, how do you Tom feed your mental emotional spiritual health and wellness on a regular basis.   536 01:23:13.410 --> 01:23:15.300 W486MGR: very, very, very question.   537 01:23:17.130 --> 01:23:22.320 W486MGR: I think it goes back to you know my belief, you know what I what I believe.   538 01:23:24.030 --> 01:23:35.520 W486MGR: Reading a lot, you know Christian churchgoer obviously and that keeps me Center you know I want to live a Christ like life so it's giving a lot, you know that's how I gauge.   539 01:23:36.240 --> 01:23:44.640 W486MGR: A lot of my success at this point in my career is how much, am I, giving I don't consider myself necessarily a taker a little pretty simple.   540 01:23:46.290 --> 01:23:50.400 W486MGR: And, as I, you know mature that gets more important, you know just kill it giving.   541 01:23:53.280 --> 01:24:03.960 W486MGR: This last year on year or two with the code in the extra stresses i've started being a walk more incorporate some pains with my wife and I, you know we can offer insurance eating more and and visiting and.   542 01:24:05.040 --> 01:24:16.410 W486MGR: Because you know we never missed a beat her when people went home and stayed home, we were we were probably busier and we've been and you know as far as gaining market share and so on.   543 01:24:17.430 --> 01:24:24.270 W486MGR: it's not easy, but a great sound whole life itself, as you can make it with some good communication and.   544 01:24:24.720 --> 01:24:26.640 W486MGR: I didn't mention either, but we have a lot of fun here.   545 01:24:27.000 --> 01:24:45.690 W486MGR: We do, and honestly we keep it fun we keep it up like was it probably a little too much sarcasm, at times, but light and fun and I think having fun and enjoying what you're doing is an important part of being you know, keeping yourself stable, you know it's needed for sure.   546 01:24:46.050 --> 01:24:49.680 Paul Casey: yeah I think people produce better when they're having fun at work when they're happier.   547 01:24:49.890 --> 01:24:50.190 W486MGR: yeah.   548 01:24:50.310 --> 01:24:51.060 Exactly yeah.   549 01:24:52.140 --> 01:24:58.020 Paul Casey: yeah and I think if I think a little bird told me you get up awful early in the morning to start that connection with.   550 01:25:01.680 --> 01:25:04.440 W486MGR: him i'm I sleep in spurts.   551 01:25:05.520 --> 01:25:20.100 W486MGR: And I used to find it but i'm absolutely I go to bed early but i'm very early in the main room nice little bit more, but yeah i'm i'm never afraid to engage people we started 230 in the morning here and we close up around 1130 so.   552 01:25:20.160 --> 01:25:20.670 wow.   553 01:25:23.370 --> 01:25:33.660 Paul Casey: Well, how do you get things done, Tom what's what's a what's a general manager do to organize themselves with the amount of stuff coming at you on a daily basis, you know.   554 01:25:34.920 --> 01:25:39.150 W486MGR: i'm pleased to announce that it is still as simple as just writing things down.   555 01:25:40.740 --> 01:25:52.230 W486MGR: And I stared out a yellow pad in front of me right now with you know five or 10 of the larger departments and I moved from one piece of paper to the next cross things out keep the major things in front of us.   556 01:25:53.370 --> 01:26:01.050 W486MGR: We over communicate here, whether it be by email or phone, more importantly, at the volumes we do each day now.   557 01:26:01.620 --> 01:26:10.200 W486MGR: We have a regimented failsafe plan of walking every day and having a plan for the next day to where there's trying to eliminate as many surprises.   558 01:26:10.650 --> 01:26:18.300 W486MGR: Yes, can we look to see what's coming in and free tomorrow and can we have a plan for their employees don't get frustrated with moving things 10 times.   559 01:26:20.070 --> 01:26:26.730 W486MGR: So I think it's a sin, you know, trying to keep it trying to keep it for me, probably peace of mind written down and then lists.   560 01:26:28.020 --> 01:26:37.830 W486MGR: And in the world of emails I delete a lot of you have especially our office that just started, you know I found frivolous and fortunately for me i've been pretty lucky there but.   561 01:26:39.330 --> 01:26:44.610 W486MGR: yeah writing it down having a plan, and then we talked about forward thinking you know.   562 01:26:45.360 --> 01:26:56.580 W486MGR: He picked up the win and then they sleep better and then they they feel better they don't dread going to bed and staying up on my you know they know they have a plan and keeps everybody keeps everybody Square.   563 01:26:57.840 --> 01:26:59.700 Paul Casey: Very cool the old legal pad.   564 01:26:59.730 --> 01:26:59.970 yeah.   565 01:27:01.980 --> 01:27:02.370 W486MGR: Still we're.   566 01:27:03.750 --> 01:27:04.320 W486MGR: Still.   567 01:27:05.340 --> 01:27:08.790 Paul Casey: going to get that shot adobo mean when we cross them off our last.   568 01:27:13.080 --> 01:27:20.940 Paul Casey: Well before we head to our next question is, I want to pick tom's brain a little bit more than that forward looking a shout out to our sponsor.   569 01:27:24.480 --> 01:27:34.080 Paul Casey: So Tom you mentioned forward thinking, I really love that I love I think leaders have to be visionary, they have to look around corners, they have to see like you said, the Christmas season coming.   570 01:27:34.650 --> 01:27:41.400 Paul Casey: How do you specifically step back and look at the bigger picture and not just put out fires all day long.   571 01:27:44.160 --> 01:28:00.750 W486MGR: it's probably it's a great question and I found when reading through you know you give me this list that some of this has been a natural reaction, but I think in there many in the pace of this day and age, and the pace of my business.   572 01:28:03.180 --> 01:28:20.040 W486MGR: It may be cliche, to say the highs and the lows, but I just find I take all that out, and I just try and keep everything on a straight line, not that there's a lot of emotion for my business and a great job appreciate that getting excited celebrating you know when we have successes but.   573 01:28:22.770 --> 01:28:32.640 W486MGR: In in crisis that's that's come daily like you know whether its members don't fall, you know going down in the workplace, we had a couple suicides here this year is or will.   574 01:28:32.850 --> 01:28:33.240 Be.   575 01:28:34.320 --> 01:28:45.960 W486MGR: I don't let the staff or the group dwell on things I don't let them over talk it or I believe conversation should be productive and you know reflective and so there's.   576 01:28:48.480 --> 01:29:04.830 W486MGR: I just look at the bigger picture and I like to talk about down the road I don't like to talk about the failures of yesterday and on this silly like to talk about today, I think when you're keeping your staff looking forward with their eyes up they're not falling down, looking back.   577 01:29:06.510 --> 01:29:07.950 W486MGR: When we mess up we.   578 01:29:08.130 --> 01:29:17.610 W486MGR: We take a couple minutes, where hey, why did that happen what what happened there, but I don't you know, send out 10 more emails and hit him up the next day like don't you remember.   579 01:29:18.810 --> 01:29:20.310 W486MGR: Last time you failed it's.   580 01:29:20.370 --> 01:29:20.700 Paul Casey: yeah.   581 01:29:20.910 --> 01:29:28.290 W486MGR: We just kind of we always try and keep it pitched out in front of us where we're kind of chasing that which I think is a good feeling for most people.   582 01:29:28.890 --> 01:29:36.660 Paul Casey: yeah It makes me think like in track and field like we're an Olympic season now you know, a track and field where they are the runner looks to the left or the right that's when they.   583 01:29:36.900 --> 01:29:38.400 Paul Casey: They lose momentum right.   584 01:29:38.790 --> 01:29:40.170 W486MGR: Great analogy perfect.   585 01:29:41.160 --> 01:29:44.730 Paul Casey: yeah that's why I named my business growing forward services.   586 01:29:47.040 --> 01:29:48.540 W486MGR: Not growing sideways right.   587 01:29:49.680 --> 01:29:52.770 Paul Casey: yeah it's staring backward that it just doesn't have the same.   588 01:29:52.800 --> 01:29:53.160 Paul Casey: Time.   589 01:29:53.760 --> 01:29:54.660 Paul Casey: It doesn't have to do it.   590 01:29:56.700 --> 01:30:08.940 Paul Casey: Well, you mentioned you brought up Kobe there what key moves did you have to make for costco and the last year and a half to two years, seemed like you said you stayed open, you are deemed essential You ran out of toilet paper, like everybody else.   591 01:30:10.470 --> 01:30:11.070 Paul Casey: How did you.   592 01:30:11.220 --> 01:30:14.340 Paul Casey: How did you stay responsive and strategic and during coven.   593 01:30:15.090 --> 01:30:15.450 know.   594 01:30:17.250 --> 01:30:25.530 W486MGR: On on a lot of levels, probably the toughest year in my career, but on a lot of levels, probably one of the most successful team building years for.   595 01:30:25.830 --> 01:30:28.620 W486MGR: My for my building in our company.   596 01:30:30.720 --> 01:30:32.010 W486MGR: You know, it was.   597 01:30:33.150 --> 01:30:37.530 W486MGR: You know, we kind of locked arms and just said, you know we're going to do this and and.   598 01:30:38.760 --> 01:30:51.690 W486MGR: One of the key things i've had to do, which has been very, very tough for me exponentially, the last year and a half, because we've hired we've seen five years of growth percentage growth in this market.   599 01:30:53.220 --> 01:30:54.840 W486MGR: Five years worth in the last year.   600 01:30:55.350 --> 01:30:56.070 Paul Casey: well.   601 01:30:56.130 --> 01:31:02.940 W486MGR: And so, now we probably increased our staff by 25 to 30%.   602 01:31:03.960 --> 01:31:11.160 W486MGR: i'm and i'm a hands on guy so you know, and I love big volume, but I also like to know, every detail of what's going on and.   603 01:31:12.330 --> 01:31:27.690 W486MGR: Why, I found out real quick and the first three or four five months of this last year I just kind of have to let a few things go spend more time being articulate listening, the clear on goals, allowing more failure, sometimes you know.   604 01:31:29.850 --> 01:31:40.650 W486MGR: You know, talking through those scenarios and maybe it wasn't we weren't clear enough and how we planned it so you know five years had a very high volume building either pre covert.   605 01:31:41.730 --> 01:31:50.640 W486MGR: i've had the world of just honestly remember you know how may become a kind of a different manager again, you know rebuild myself again.   606 01:31:52.350 --> 01:31:57.210 W486MGR: And there's been a lot of pluses and then there's been there's been some some tough road to but.   607 01:31:58.350 --> 01:32:00.000 W486MGR: we're stronger team this year for sure.   608 01:32:02.550 --> 01:32:03.030 Paul Casey: wow.   609 01:32:04.140 --> 01:32:13.830 Paul Casey: That in you know you said, like the couple suicides Oh, you know, in an organization or in the periphery, I mean the mental health drain.   610 01:32:14.340 --> 01:32:18.150 Paul Casey: Like you said you had to reinvent yourself as a manager to be that cheerleader.   611 01:32:18.540 --> 01:32:34.920 Paul Casey: You said articulation clarifying goals and letting some stuff go talk to me about that was it, you said, your OCD that must have been a struggle to actually take all this experience and put a few things to the side, while you reoriented towards being a cheerleader.   612 01:32:35.160 --> 01:32:41.850 W486MGR: yeah very projects from the top down, and again this morning as early as this morning we're talking about.   613 01:32:42.990 --> 01:32:54.900 W486MGR: i'd have, I do have my staff in the morning, half the stuff in the afternoon, and you know somebody brought up kind of a loose and that was part of the way we do our business and it kind of exploded into.   614 01:32:57.000 --> 01:33:01.530 W486MGR: We use retail failures and pen and not sarcastically but.   615 01:33:03.450 --> 01:33:14.790 W486MGR: You know the arrogance, if you look at companies like kmart or shoes or where they lose their way, and they lose their target focus and they lose their their basics nothing's kind of eat away at your culture.   616 01:33:16.530 --> 01:33:22.770 W486MGR: very, very hard from you like even I just give me an example, like our register set up here, we had 18 registers pretty cool but.   617 01:33:24.060 --> 01:33:31.170 W486MGR: We now have 28, but a lot of them are set up in the normal standard costco procedure which is you know we always have somebody helping the cashier.   618 01:33:31.260 --> 01:33:33.900 W486MGR: packing Well, now we have a tan at each end.   619 01:33:34.470 --> 01:33:40.620 W486MGR: or just somebody standing there with the gun, you know, so the checks and balances of there, which is an increase in shrink.   620 01:33:41.190 --> 01:33:46.590 W486MGR: it's an increase in that you know i'm just uncomfortable with that piece of it at the same point.   621 01:33:47.370 --> 01:33:53.880 W486MGR: We don't have lines anymore, and our Members can get in and out and it's quicker and so there's a cost of doing.   622 01:33:54.870 --> 01:34:04.620 W486MGR: I guess that's the best analogy, I can give you I mean it my stomach kind of turn sometimes and i'm looking at it, but then, I have three Members walk by and go man this place is great, we got him we got out.   623 01:34:06.150 --> 01:34:14.070 W486MGR: And yeah you know every six months cycle, the last couple, we ran a little higher shrink, not a lot, because you know you can see our box of cheerios right.   624 01:34:16.890 --> 01:34:21.120 W486MGR: But we have a little bit just missed items, you know just because of our volume and so when.   625 01:34:21.930 --> 01:34:35.700 W486MGR: that's an example of just having to let it some of it goes a little bit and that you know the way this dynamic is set up right now we kind of got to give a little to be sure we're taking care of our people and our Members so.   626 01:34:37.020 --> 01:34:38.880 W486MGR: it's maybe an example yeah.   627 01:34:39.210 --> 01:34:40.740 Paul Casey: Thank you for the extra check stands, we.   628 01:34:40.740 --> 01:34:41.820 W486MGR: appreciate yeah.   629 01:34:42.930 --> 01:34:46.320 W486MGR: I do get a lot of local and it's good for people, you know we we don't.   630 01:34:47.640 --> 01:34:57.750 W486MGR: We definitely almost doubled the size of the front end which which now we can move people per hour or more people per hour through the building when we have parking spots, so now now.   631 01:34:58.140 --> 01:35:03.450 Paul Casey: A lot of good stuff in that pivot and and even though you know I don't like it when you move the potato chips across.   632 01:35:03.450 --> 01:35:03.690 there.   633 01:35:06.000 --> 01:35:07.530 Paul Casey: there's a thing called change.   634 01:35:09.780 --> 01:35:12.720 W486MGR: I wish I had $1 for every time someone's got on you, by moving.   635 01:35:14.370 --> 01:35:17.580 Paul Casey: How do you help people handled change.   636 01:35:17.790 --> 01:35:19.770 W486MGR: yeah it's a.   637 01:35:21.660 --> 01:35:28.920 W486MGR: You know I I put it to people when, especially when we're there are some things that we change, like our shirt or.   638 01:35:29.970 --> 01:35:41.400 W486MGR: Product line or whatever, but you know when you're asking someone to make changes in their leadership style I always say it's not a haircut issue you know that's my haircut taking minutes for most people yeah.   639 01:35:42.060 --> 01:35:57.450 W486MGR: More you say head or like that shirt to wear that small you know that's an easy one, but yeah when you start getting into you know hey you really need to make some changes here about the way you articulate about the week listen your body language.   640 01:35:58.770 --> 01:35:59.520 W486MGR: You know.   641 01:36:00.630 --> 01:36:02.910 W486MGR: Why, those are tough and you have to be patient.   642 01:36:03.960 --> 01:36:05.160 W486MGR: You have show patients.   643 01:36:06.600 --> 01:36:12.150 W486MGR: And again that's where just become an open and honest and articulate and being a good listener.   644 01:36:14.910 --> 01:36:25.350 W486MGR: i've had some retirements to this year, you know they're saying, have a business outgrows people sometimes it does you know, we have some people know 3839 years and built this company and.   645 01:36:26.100 --> 01:36:33.810 W486MGR: Changes art and they're tired tired, you know, this is a tiring business where like like a lot of organizations, but.   646 01:36:35.100 --> 01:36:39.810 W486MGR: I have had some people just tell me hey i'm I can't do that.   647 01:36:41.220 --> 01:36:54.570 W486MGR: Like I appreciate the honesty, but rather need to go a different direction, those are those are those are good conversations and honesty and then friendship and then respect to other other people in the work they've done but.   648 01:36:57.390 --> 01:37:04.950 W486MGR: Most people are willing to do it we're pretty lucky we have that I think we have the best retail team and in the United States, if not the world I.   649 01:37:04.950 --> 01:37:05.580 Paul Casey: mean.   650 01:37:05.880 --> 01:37:10.200 W486MGR: We can move the business and move the product and keep our Members happy.   651 01:37:11.250 --> 01:37:12.210 W486MGR: you're pretty good job.   652 01:37:12.660 --> 01:37:13.170 W486MGR: yeah.   653 01:37:13.590 --> 01:37:14.070 Paul Casey: i'm trying to do.   654 01:37:14.250 --> 01:37:18.570 W486MGR: That without being arrogant but i'm feel like we're pretty stronger.   655 01:37:19.380 --> 01:37:32.490 Paul Casey: yeah that's so cool to be able to say that everybody can say that's that's that's pretty awesome and you mentioned there's there can be performance issues, there can be attitude, you know or behavior issues, there can be paste issues right and.   656 01:37:32.610 --> 01:37:38.100 Paul Casey: I mean you have to confront you probably have to confront each one of those a little bit differently right as we.   657 01:37:38.400 --> 01:37:39.720 W486MGR: Absolutely, you know.   658 01:37:43.410 --> 01:37:50.250 W486MGR: You know i've always been fortunate I think if you ask my staff i'm i'm a pretty tough guy i'm pretty tough on the basics.   659 01:37:51.570 --> 01:38:02.310 W486MGR: But I I think working for me is like that the worst roller coaster you're I always tell the stuff that you ever went on a skirt you sometimes but you can't wait to go on and do it again.   660 01:38:04.080 --> 01:38:09.600 W486MGR: And they love it pretty you know picking people enjoy working for me, but I think part of that is you know paul's we've talked.   661 01:38:10.080 --> 01:38:23.070 W486MGR: When you're organized and when you have plans and you have successes it builds it builds trust it builds trust in the fact that we're successful and we're a team, and we have a plan.   662 01:38:24.210 --> 01:38:33.390 W486MGR: That helps you know build the team, and you know, so we talk about relationships, a lot here, we talked about trust.   663 01:38:35.220 --> 01:38:41.610 W486MGR: You talked about being open and honest and you know we're not perfect, but but we try awful hard.   664 01:38:43.560 --> 01:38:52.680 Paul Casey: yeah well tell him, finally, what advice would you give to new leaders or anyone who wants to keep growing and gaining more influence.   665 01:38:54.330 --> 01:38:54.690 Paul Casey: yeah.   666 01:38:56.910 --> 01:39:04.470 W486MGR: Well, my formula my formula has always been one of my biggest strengths, thank goodness, is just working hard.   667 01:39:05.640 --> 01:39:19.200 W486MGR: At what I do I hope that's never replaced I think hard work is rewarded, no matter what you're doing whether it's in the yard or at work or whenever you see the fruits, it has to start with the willingness to be able to work hard.   668 01:39:21.570 --> 01:39:23.970 W486MGR: And they're really appear stepping into being.   669 01:39:25.410 --> 01:39:39.120 W486MGR: managing a business or leading are really sit down by yourself and understand the difference between what's managing and what's leading and then I don't want to mix it up in today's world leading people is very, very difficult.   670 01:39:40.020 --> 01:39:49.320 W486MGR: And, as a result, I always suggest reading doing a lot of reading doing a lot of having an accountability group getting feedback.   671 01:39:50.730 --> 01:40:00.180 W486MGR: Getting coaching whenever you can can you know hey what could I be doing, and the last thing, be able to take some criticism that was hard very, very hard for me.   672 01:40:01.230 --> 01:40:02.460 W486MGR: To use.   673 01:40:03.510 --> 01:40:13.380 W486MGR: i've been doing this 36 or 37 but I will say the first 15 years or so, I wasn't very receptive to that or areas for improvement.   674 01:40:15.660 --> 01:40:20.610 W486MGR: And I finally i've learned hey if I if you're getting some some.   675 01:40:21.750 --> 01:40:31.680 W486MGR: You know, encouragement to improve in certain areas it's probably because someone cares about you and they see potential Ai be a little worried in today's day and age, if they're not saying anything.   676 01:40:32.460 --> 01:40:32.850 yeah.   677 01:40:34.860 --> 01:40:42.510 Paul Casey: Well, for I know you're a golfer Tom and they say, if you take a golf lesson from a pro would you get mad at the golf pro for adjusting.   678 01:40:43.680 --> 01:40:43.980 W486MGR: yeah.   679 01:40:45.600 --> 01:40:47.520 W486MGR: i'm just gonna hit it straight or I don't want to do that.   680 01:40:49.980 --> 01:40:50.820 W486MGR: me what to do.   681 01:40:52.080 --> 01:40:54.510 W486MGR: Sure that's a great analogy yeah.   682 01:40:56.160 --> 01:40:59.550 Paul Casey: Good stuff so Tom How can our listeners best connect with you.   683 01:41:01.560 --> 01:41:17.340 W486MGR: You know, for me, it's and I get it a lot with people as he a church or people I see around you know, the Community is just coming in and saying I think everybody comes through here asked for me at the door i'd love to sit down and talk with anybody.   684 01:41:17.880 --> 01:41:23.430 W486MGR: Some time come into the office you know it takes 1520 minutes or whatever it is, but.   685 01:41:24.510 --> 01:41:33.570 W486MGR: yeah generally you know six and a half days a week or six five and a half days a week my i'm right here, trying to keep my arms around the place.   686 01:41:35.370 --> 01:41:35.850 W486MGR: So.   687 01:41:36.390 --> 01:41:43.080 Paul Casey: yeah that's very generous of your time well thanks again for all you do Tom to make the tri cities, a great place.   688 01:41:43.110 --> 01:41:44.730 Paul Casey: and keep leading well.   689 01:41:45.240 --> 01:41:45.420 Now.   690 01:41:46.950 --> 01:41:50.880 Paul Casey: Let me wrap up our podcast today with a leadership resource to recommend.   691 01:41:51.420 --> 01:42:00.690 Paul Casey: And it has to do with training I would love to be your training buddy someone that you could hire to come in to help your folks grow in their soft skills.   692 01:42:00.930 --> 01:42:09.480 Paul Casey: But that's emotional intelligence or their personality style whether it's handling conflict and receiving feedback well like Tom and I were just discussing.   693 01:42:09.780 --> 01:42:24.060 Paul Casey: would love to come in and do a lunch and learn for your team or half or full day training, please go to my website Paul Casey calm reach out and we will make it happen in the second half of 2021 as things are opening up.   694 01:42:25.800 --> 01:42:33.600 Paul Casey: Well, again, this is Paul Casey and I want to thank my guest Tom olson from costco for being here today on the tri city influencer podcast we want to thank our.   695 01:42:34.110 --> 01:42:43.740 Paul Casey: sponsors and invite you to sponsor to support them and we appreciate you making this possible, so that we can collaborate to help inspire leaders in our Community.   696 01:42:44.070 --> 01:43:00.480 Paul Casey: Finally, one more leadership tidbit for the road to help you make a difference in your circle of influence Benjamin Disraeli said action may not always bring happiness, but there is no happiness without action until next time kg F keep growing forward.  

Tom How closes the Stories Jesus Told series at Pembury Baptist Church on 29th August 2021, speaking from Luke 19:11-27 on the parable of the minas, encouraging people to go when they receive God's call on their life.

Tom How preaches from Luke 18:9-14 about the tax collector and the Pharisee at Pembury Baptist Church on 22nd August 2021, suggesting he'd rather be a tax collector.

Mindy Jensen from BiggerPockets joins us to share personal finance and self-management tips, strategy considerations, side hustle ideas, and what it is like to be a female investor in a historically male-dominated industry.    --- Transcript Michael: Hey everyone. Welcome to another episode of The Remote Real Estate Investor. I'm Michael Albaum and today I'm joined by my co host,   Tom: Tom Schneider.   Michael: Mindy Jensen from BiggerPockets is joining us today. And she's going to be talking to us today about some personal finance tips for those of us who are just getting started, as well as what is it like to be a female investor in this space, and some tips and tricks and takeaways for all of our listeners. So let's jump into it.   So Mindy Jensen, thank you so much for taking the time to hang out with us today. I was telling you before we start recording, I am a total fanboy. I'm all giggly today. So thank you, again, for hanging out with us.   Mindy: Well, thank you for having me. I love talking about real estate.   Michael: Awesome. Well, you are in the perfect place to do so. So I know all about you, because I'm a big fan of your podcast, the BiggerPockets Money Podcast that you and Scott host. But for all of our listeners that might not be familiar with you can you give us a little bit of background on kind of who you are, where you're from, and then how you got your start with real estate?   Mindy I was born in a small town in Southern Illinois. And then I moved and moved and moved and moved and moved and moved and moved and moved. And I'm in my 28th or 29th house now, which is actually really relevant to the story. It sounds like a boring, I was born in a small town. And I have never lived in a house for more than six years in my whole life. And I just sold that house that I lived in for six years in January. So it's been like, we move all the time.   And that is really key to my preferred method of investing in real estate, which is called the live & flip, you buy a very unattractive house, you move into it as your primary residence, you fix it up while you're living there. If you live there for at least two years as your primary residence, it is tax free growth, when you sell it, you pay no taxes up to $250,000. If you're single, and up to $500,000, if you're married, I now have a new goal to actually pay capital gains taxes on my flip, I want to get to the point where I have to pay because I've made so much money, which is a very real possibility given our current market, the fact that I got this for a steel and a half, and we're doing a lot of work to it.   But in general, I live in flip. I love real estate. I love talking about real estate. And yeah, I'm a mom of two girls and I live in Colorado.   Tom: Awesome. I love the live in flip strategy. I think I would like you know, with these types of strategies, you know, you have to be very much on the same page as your partner so and I don't think it would fly as much but I'm curious in you know doing this strategy like how big of a renovation Have you done with a live in flip flip Have you done like, you know, like basically camping in in in studs, the ground? Or do you like have some sort of limitation on how big of a project it is?   Mindy: I have limitations now sold this is it's actually a really, really great example of like how big you can go, I have popped the top twice on houses. That means adding a second story, I will never do that again. Because I'm too old for that garbage. It is a lot of work. And when we were popping the top on our most recent house, my youngest was three years old, my oldest was six years old. We at one point had the washer and dryer in the kitchen with holes dug into the kitchen tile floor, which was gross anyway, we're gonna change it anyway.   We we drilled holes in the floor so we could put the out pipes and the water supply pipes into the crawlspace. And the rest of the house was walled off, or it was plastic tarped off because we were building the the addition and the second story.   So in the cold of Colorado, that's really not fun. And we were sleeping in a bedroom with our two children. And my father in law was sleeping in the other bedroom because he's an electrician, and he was helping us rewire the house. We took it from 60 amp service to 200 amp service and basically just rewired the whole thing. When you take it to the studs you can do that. So it was a big undertaking. We there's not a wall in that house that we didn't touch. But why would somebody choose to do this?   Well, I bought it for $176,000 I sold it for $598,000 and I put about $100,000 into it so you do it for the money.   Michael: Wow.   Tom: That's incredible. And the two years so the the tax.   Mindy: This match tax. I guess one more? Yeah, zero. It's incredible. My other specific to the live in strategy, or do you think back on some of the houses on the ones that got away like Oh man, I wish I was still in that? Or is the upside of kind of going through the process and getting those rewards does that, you know, just kind of smooth it over. You're like okay, I'm excited to be on the next one, you know, or do you ever like kind of fall in love I guess and you know, what's the name of the show? Love it or list it you know?   Mindy: Oh Always list it, always list it. And this is actually so I am a real estate agent. And I don't understand the concept of falling in love with the house. There's what is there like 40 million houses in America or something that houses in America, there isn't just one perfect house for you.   Michael: Yeah, totally legit.   Mindy: There's not just one perfect house, there's always going to be another house, that's going to be great for you. So I have never fallen in love with a house. We did have one house that we brought our two children home from the hospital and after they were born, that's really sweet. But the taxes on that house when I sold it for $17,000 a year. Oh, Wisconsin, super high tax bracket. So that I don't miss that at all. I mean, my, my current mortgage payment was my monthly tax only payment on that house. That's ridiculous.   Michael: That's crazy. I think that the saying goes the deal of a lifetime only comes around about once a week. So there I couldn't agree with you more Mindy.   Mindy: You know what the house that I just told I pointed to where it is, it's it's on the other side of town, that house that I just sold was the deal of a lifetime, but the one I'm sitting in now is going to be even more the deal of the lifetime. So yeah, you can find a good deal anywhere.   Michael: So I really want to dig in to two specific topics with you today, because I know that you're an expert in both. One, I would love to get some personal finance tips from you, for folks that are just starting their real estate investing journey I live in flip could absolutely be one of them. And then I also want to talk to you about what it's like being a female investor in the space. And I know that you've got experience again in both those areas. So if I am just starting out, and…   Mindy: I do I have like a lifelong experience, lifelong experience as a woman. So just starting out in real estate, buy low and sell high is kind of the the Pat answer. But really, if you are looking to get started investing in real estate, you need to be educated, you need to know what it is that you're going to do with your investment.   And it seems so easy to be a landlord. But there's a lot of things that you need to know if you want to be a landlord. And if you don't know those things, you are going to mess up and you are going to lose money. And you are going to, in some cases hate your life. I know when you don't know that you should screen a tenant. And you don't know that a 400 credit score is not indicative of a person who is going to be paying you on time every month, you might rent out to somebody who has a 400 credit score, you didn't know because you didn't even run it and you let them move into your house. And they trashed it because they are bad tenants. And you didn't know that because you didn't call it their past landlords and you know, their kids wreck the house and you didn't know they had kids because you didn't screen them.   There's, there's a lot of things and not that you shouldn't rent to people who don't have kids. I'm not advocating against fair housing laws, you need to know who's living in the house. And when you rent it to Michael and Michael doesn't have doesn't say, hey, I've got 17 kids, you know, you come into occupancy, you had a bit against occupancy issues. And you know, or Michael brings his brother Tom, and Tom brings his friend Joe, and then there's 76 people living in your house and you're like, wait, why is it trashed?   I'm not surprised at all. So, if you want to invest in any type of asset class, you need to do your research and if you cannot explain how you are going to invest and and how somebody should be investing in that particular asset class, you should not be investing in that asset class. I'm not in but Bitcoin. I'm not in crypto because I don't understand it. And this is not an invitation to send me an email to explain it to me. I don't want to know.   Tom: Michael's a big, big ferret guy, I wouldn't rent to him because, like,   Michael: Tom!   Tom: It's cute, he's taught them to do these tricks that he showed us, but big…   Michael: Tom, time out. It's chinchillas.   Tom: I think we segued…  Michael, I think we're okay. Chinchillas apologies.   Mindy: I'm gonna jump in here and say, OMG , I would never read to somebody who had ferrets because ferrets stink.   Tom: Michael apparently likes it. Sorry chinchillas.   But okay, getting back on the rails. Mindy, you know what I love my like takeaway from what you're talking about is just having your eyes wide open of like going into risk. I think like with any type of investment that you're doing it be it crypto real estate. Successful investors, they are cognizant and intentional about the risks that they're taking, be it who you're renting to be it the property condition and like what your capacity is, so just love that as like a takeaway on this episode of of intention with risk and eyes wide open in education and filling that gap.   Mindy: Well, that was a better way to say it.   Michael: No I prefer the 76 circus family.   Mindy, a question for you kind of in that same vein. And so we have the education side of things at the Rootstock Academy and I love that you brought up education totally unprompted. I just want everybody to know that we didn't prompt Mindy with that. But how do you draw the line between getting educated, and knowing when enough is enough to then jump in or dip your toes because I know that's something that I struggled with, I spent about two years self educating before ever doing a real estate deal. And even I'm still learning and I was 10 years ago, I'm still learning every single day. So how do you feel like you're you have enough to be dangerous to then go do something with without getting analysis paralysis?   Mindy: Well, started young is really great. Because when you start young, you feel like you know everything, and you don't feel like you need to do all the research. And that's how I got started. I just knew everything when I was 26 years old.   I do like that you said, you know, analysis paralysis. And at one point, do you do you stop educating? You need to be able to understand what you're doing? Hey, how do you invest in real estate? How do you rent out your house? Oh, you know, you just put it on Craigslist.   That's not enough information. You need to learn how you rent out a house. How do you screen a tenant? How do you buy a house? How do you collect rent, like there's a lot of things that you need to think about? Before you just buy a house and throw some people in it. You're providing housing for somebody, you're giving somebody a place to live, you need to know that it's a safe place to live. It's a habitable place to live. And you need to know that they're going to pay you rent.   I mean, once you can start explaining it to other people, I think you've done enough research. You'll always continue to learn, you will always continue to refine and hone in Hey, it turns out I don't want to rent to Mike that has 17 chinchillas. I want to read to Tom who has four little dogs because I know that big dogs cause disasters or I'm not going to rent to Tom anymore because his cats poo. That was not a pleasant experience.   And you know, you will always,  you will always continue to learn. Yeah, that's sometimes cat spray. But being involved in a community that continues to help each other out, is really the best way to go about it. I mean, BiggerPockets is a community of real estate investors helping other real estate investors learn how to do it explaining from experience that, you know, renting out to the chinchilla farm isn't the best choice. Or, you know, renting out to 17 guys who just turned 18 years old in your four bedroom house is probably not going to have the best results.   Yeah, and you're not discriminating, you're just being smart about your your applicants. But even how you find applicants is going to be something that you learn through asking other people.   Tom: Like synthesizing along with the education piece is like community is like such a huge piece about, you know, a really important aspect and feeling comfortable to make that jump, I think and Michael was was talking about just because investing in real estate can be difficult, right? You're right, you know, pop in the top and in Colorado in the winter, you know, having that community of people to one from the education standpoint, but to just as the either, you know, feedback loop or helping, you know, continuing to move forward. Kind of the combination of the two are is really important. And yeah, love BiggerPockets. This is a fantastic spot of that community aspect.   Mindy: Yeah, it's my favorite website on the whole planet.   Michael: I love that. You mentioned the community aspect of things. Because I think so many investors, especially those who are just starting out think that going from due diligence to then you're the first acquisition is that's it, I bought the property now I'm done. It's like, Well, no, now the work actually starts now you own the property. Now you really need that support for the ongoing stuff, not just from the due diligence acquisition.   Mindy: Yes, and this support is really important because sometimes there's not really much you can do. But having somebody to commiserate with is really helpful. But as you're in there talking to other investors, you pick up little tips. One of the best tips I ever picked up for screening tenants is to after they have seen your home, you walk them to their car, you just walk them out and you know, chat, whatever. But while you're at their car, you give it a little peek. Oh, look at that. I can't even see anything in there because there's garbage and wrappers up to the tops of the windows.   You don't want to rent to that person because they how they keep your their cars, how they're going to keep your house and you don't want to go into a completely trashed house. unless that's your thing.   Michael: And teach the road, no judgment, no judgment. I've heard of another similar tip of doing a FaceTime interview with prospective tenants and having them give you a tour around their current living situation.   Mindy: That's another really great tip, because then they're not really expecting to do a tour so you can see how they truly live. And this isn't to discriminate against people who might be slightly untidy, this is to prevent people who will not treat your property with respect from moving it.   Tom: Canary in the coal mine. One thing I love about these episodes is they're there, they can be very self serving. So I have a very self serving question for you. And this is, I guess, for broader people, or as well, if let's say I'm saving up for downpayment on the next acquisition to buy an investment property. What are your thoughts around like, where to hold that money? You know, or I'm going through a cash out refi and going to have a big chunk of change coming in them and to be using for these acquisitions? What do you think about holding it in a cash cash position versus putting it into an ETF or a CD? Or I'd love to hear your your thoughts on that. I mean, a lot, a lot, a lot there.   Mindy: A lot there. But it comes down to what is your risk tolerance, if you have just happen to have a big chunk of change from a cash out refi and you're looking for a property? How comfortable are you with that dollar amount dropping in value. So if you can't, if you need the $20,000 for your down payment, and you don't have a way to replenish that $20,000 easily, I wouldn't put it into an ETF, I wouldn't put it into the stock market at all, I would put it into a high yield savings account, which is only in air quotes, because they're currently at like point 5% or something.   You could maybe put it into bonds, I wouldn't bother with that. If it was not going to be a super long term play like two or three years. If you're going to get it in like three or four months, I would just put it in the cash account, your job is not to grow that, you aren't going to grow that in any significant way. You're not going to put it I mean, you could put it in Bitcoin and watch it go up super a lot. But did you see what happened with Bitcoin? This week? Wasn't it like? Didn't it drop like $30,000? or something? I don't I don't invest in bitcoins.   Tom: Crushed. Yeah, so I just put a very little amount and I've and I've lost, I've lost half of a very little amount.   Mindy: So how would you feel about your $20,000 that you put in Bitcoin because it's a sure thing, and then all of a sudden, now it's $10,000. And you're like, Oh, my money's gone. I don't like to lose $1. So I don't like to be really in really volatile things. I'm mostly in index funds, I have a few tech stocks, and you know, real estate, but I wouldn't put it into anything that that is volatile when you're looking to use it within the next two or three years. And even then, with two or three years, I'd be in like bonds, which are fairly safe, they're not even really growing that much. Your job is to protect the money.   Michael: That makes total sense. I guess that's a really great point in talking about like, your job is to protect that money and to go make that investment in the real estate. And don't worry about everything else. That's just noise if you're trying to grow it and grow it, but focus on the task at hand Don't get distracted. So no more Dogecoin betting Tom, enough is enough.   Tom: I know. And also just a point I want to clarify. Michael is not a ferret guy. I was being silly. Yeah, yeah. The guy didn't realize he clarify.   Michael: Yeah.   So Mindy, you've got some really great insight into a lot of folks his financial purview, I'll call it and so in terms of side hustles, when people are just starting out or looking to grow some additional cash positions to invest in real estate, what have you seen be really effective in terms of side hustles?   Mindy: There is this thing called a signing agent. And it is more towards the west coast of the country than the East Coast. It's four not attorney closing states but title company closing states and notary closing states, you are essentially walking somebody through the closing process and watching them as they sign their name on all the mortgage documents and all the closing papers.   And this is an amazing side hustle because you get to if you have attention to detail, and if you don't, don't even bother, but you get to read mortgage documents over and over and over and over. Again, you're reading the contracts, you're seeing all these things, it's a great way to learn about the process in general. And you make 150 $200 a closing, a closing takes what an hour, you can do those all throughout the day, if you have time during the day, when people are working is not when they need you, it's when people are off work. So nights and weekends.   If you're willing to work nights and weekends, you could make a good chunk of change. I've seen people making, you know, $2,000 a month, just on this little side hustle, and they're not even really spending that much time on it. The cost. The barrier to entry on this is a box of black ballpoint pens, a box of blue ballpoint pens, and a really good printer. And I think it has to be a laser jet, not an inkjet.   It's like a less than $1,000. And you have to be a notary. So you have to go through your state's notary process. I'm not one. So I don't know. I don't know all the process about it. But we talked to a guy who runs a school that that teaches people how to do this and teaches them how to get the jobs to be signing agents. And if you're really good, if you don't make mistakes, people will continue to request you because you're really good.   Tom: Gosh, I love that tip. I feel like I've seen so many like clickbait articles of like passive income. And this is like the one of the best ones I've ever, I've ever heard. I looked into the notary getting that I have a competition with a friend on who can get the most certifications. And this is one and it's not that I think it's like in the state of California where I live, it's like an afternoon of work. Or it's like a certain number of hours. And there might be a test and there's like a low oil, loyalty oath or something like that. So Mindy that's fantastic example of a great side hustle.   Mindy: I got another one. Let's hear it. Yeah. Okay, another attention to detail. I am a real estate agent, I also have a full time job. So I do not have time to double check and triple check all the things in my contract. After we're, you know, I write up the contract for my clients, we get under contract. There's a lot of dates and deadlines, a lot of dates and deadlines. I would just be crushed if I ever allowed my client to miss a date or deadline. And yes, the buyer should be aware of all the dates and deadlines, they should have that upfront. So they're not missing it either.   But I pay somebody who is called a transaction coordinator, I pay her to help me. Remember all the deadlines helped me keep all the deadlines helped me. She files my paperwork with my company so that I get paid, she submits it to the title company. So I get the check at closing. It's called the transaction coordinator, I pay her $400 per transaction. I did 15 transactions last year. And I'm not a busy agent. So you get in with a busy agent who's doing 40-50 transactions a year, you can make some big money.   And it's like an hour of work. It's probably not an hour of work. Maybe she spends, I don't know, five or six hours on my entire transaction from start to finish. She's got it down. I sent her the information. I introduce her to the clients, and then she just sends us an email. Hey, just reminder. I mean, I'm helping people buy $500,000 houses. I'm not going to let you miss a deadline. I would much rather pay $400 to somebody who double checks that I'm not missing deadlines.   Michael: That's such a good tip.   Tom: How would you market yourself as a transaction coordinator in like getting that type of business? I'd love it. Yeah. Just reaching out to agents?   Mindy: Yeah, I would absolutely reach out to agents go to every agency in the city and just say, Hey, I'm an agent, or I'm a transaction coordinator. I'll do your first transaction for free. This is how much I charge. This is how great I am I you know, I set it all up. I do all these things, whatever. It's not that hard. I want somebody as a backup because I am really good. But if I missed the deadline, I would just feel terrible forever. So I want somebody to help me do all the things. Yeah, if you want to go to like literally every agent, if you have one agent client, you will get a lot more because I'm going to tell everybody that I know how great Lacey is. Lacey is great.   Tom: Shout out Lacey.   Michael: That's fantastic. I love that. I love that tip. Because again, that's one of the things that's like in the real estate ecosystem. So you're getting exposed to the to the market to the industry, and you're making money. I think that's awesome.   Mindy: You're learning contracts, you're learning lenders, you're talking to home inspectors and title companies and you're really touching every part of a transaction. She's involved in every part of the transaction, and she sees all the things. So she actually did used to be an agent and said that she prefers transaction coordination.   Michael: So in flipping the narrative a little bit, so that those are some great side hustles that folks can do to help generate some additional cash for their savings for down payments or for investing. What are some of the pitfalls or traps that you've seen new investors fall into?   Mindy: Not being well capitalized, when you buy a house, something will break, I guarantee you, there are very few guarantees in life, it is a guarantee that when you buy a house, something will break, the cost of that repair is inversely proportionate to how much money you have in your reserve fund. If you are very well funded, you get like a broken light switch cover or something. But if you don't have a lot of money, all of a sudden your AC goes out, and it's 105 degrees outside, or it's 30 Below and the furnace breaks.   Something will break. And if you don't have money to pay for it, you shouldn't be buying a house.   Tom: Do you have a rule of thumb on reserves?   Mindy: I really like $10,000, To start off with, like per property rather than?   Michael: 1 million dollars.   Mindy: 1 million dollars. Yes per property. And that is, it's you know, it's a rule of thumb where rules of thumb are like give or take, I have a good paying job, and very low expenses, so I can cash flow, anything that comes my way, I don't have any reserve fund. But I also am able, you know, I have a great line of credit, I can just, if I need a roof, and for some reason my insurance company isn't going to pay for it, I can go and find the $15,000 to put a roof on my house, if you don't have any money in your reserves, you're going to really be hurting and you have to have a roof and you can't not have a roof.   $10,000 is a good place to start. And then I would continue to add to it at a rate of approximately 1% of the purchase price of the house per year. Once you get to like $20,000 I'm trying to think what would cost more than $20,000 to repair on a house right now. And you know, prices have gone through the roof with COVID. And all of the crazy supply issues that that we're having right now. So maybe $20,000 is going to be a better bet. But you know, if you're replacing stuff, it's probably not going to all break at once. And it's probably not going to cost you more than $20,000.   And yes, that is per property until you get to a certain point, like if you have four properties that are in relatively good condition. Oh, condition is another thing. Like if you have a brand new build, you probably don't need $10,000 in your reserve fund. But if you have, you know, a 1950s build, you should probably go $20,000 in your reserve fund unless it was just all you know, remodeled and everything's brand new.   Tom: Yeah, one thing I love about that response in it as well as is there's you know, it's it's dynamic, right? If it's a newer house, or if you have a big line of credit, like it's not real estate and all this it's not one size fits all, there's, you know, strategic considerations on where you're at and, and the property, all of that good stuff.   Mindy: Yeah. And it comes down to like, what kind of financial position Are you personally in? If you're well funded personally, you'll be probably okay. But you know, with COVID when they did them, eviction moratoriums that people stop paying rent, there were owners of four plexes and eight plexes that had 90% of their tenants not paying rent, I guess that doesn't work in a four Plex that would be 75% of their tenants not paying rent, how are you going to pay the mortgage on your house if your tenants aren't paying your rent? And if you don't have six months of all the payments in an account, you need to be getting six months of all the payments? I mean, how long has the eviction moratorium been going on? Like 10 months or something? And it's supposed to schedule through like, is it September? That's the student loan one. Maybe it's the end of June or July? I don't know…   Michael: I think it is September?   Mindy: Yeah, it's fluid with all the different states. But it's, that's a significant amount of time that your tenants may not be paying rent.   Michael: Yeah, that's a great point.   Tom: You touched on an item that I think is super relevant to current conditions, talking about price of materials talking about, you know, just kind of a dynamic market. I'd love to hear has your strategy evolved at all like with the cost of materials going crazy and with like appreciation going nuts on these houses? Or you know, is it as had been pretty consistent through the different market changes that we're seeing?   Mindy: COVID changed my strategy in that we were going to turn our former primary residence into an Airbnb. And when that got shut down, we decided we would rent it out long term. And after we saw all the appreciation going on, we said you know what, I don't really have time right now to go and run an Airbnb. I'm really, really a control freak. So I'm not going to pass that off to somebody else. Let's just sell it be done with the house and move on.   We were incredibly fortunate. We bought all the supplies for many of the projects around the house right before COVID hit. So all the wooden studs for the basement we bought at 2019 prices, not 2021 prices, which is four times as expensive. We've did a whole a big deck edition. And we bought those. They arrived on March, I think March 9, all that stuff arrived. So we like right before they shut down the entire country. We bought all these all of our supplies.   We're building a shed, and my neighbor is doing a renovation, and it's throwing away studs from the 60s. Why would you do that? So I'm going through the dumpster and I'm grabbing those studs, and I'm putting them in my garage. And now I have a new goal. I'm going to scavenge all of the supplies for my shed. And my neighbor's fence got knocked over with the snowplow. So they're building him a new fence. And we're the weirdos that are always working on our house. So he asked us if we wanted his his old fencing materials and his old cedar two by fours and his old cedar four by fours like, Yeah, I do. Because even if I can't use them in the house, I can, you know, he's like, I just don't want them to get thrown away, like I can put them to use.   Tom: What a win win that's brilliant.   Mindy: But I'm not planning any more big projects right now because it's so expensive. And I mean, you can't even go into the store and find two by fours sometimes and plywood. And it's we're doing a lot of painting now, instead of building. And I'm not sure when we're going to change back to building.   Michael: Smart.   Tom: Writing the plan in pencil. That's awesome. I love that that response is cool, because there's like multiple zigs and zags just based on what's what's going on.   Mindy: But if you're not dumpster diving, you need to start it's like construction dumpster diving, don't go to the back of like Whole Foods or something but or maybe. I mean, they throw away a lot of good stuff too. But if you're walking around your neighborhood, and you notice that your neighbor is doing some work peek inside, if you can skip buying 52 by fours because your neighbor just threw a bunch away. That's just that's just smart.   Plus, they're from the 60s so they're straight. I mean, they were sitting outside on the deck and it got wet. And then they still didn't bend and now you get a two by four and it bends before you can get it home. Sorry, I digress.   Michael: You look at it wrong. And it's a warped. Yeah. I was gonna say Tom and I were chatting the other day, and I'm doing a massive redevelopment project. And that budget has just got eviscerated because of the wood prices and other materials. And it's just it sucks. Like, I'm in the middle of it. And there's no way around it.   Mindy: Yeah, I have seen new builds where the buyer put the deposit down and sign the contract. And okay, we're going to start building in March, April. And the builder comes back and says, Okay, now it's going to cost $30,000 more, because wood went up so much. And if you don't want to pay that we understand, we'll refund your money. I've got a line of people waiting to buy this house at the $30,000 additional price.   So what do you do? Do you say yes? Or do you get your money back? I mean, the next house isn't going to be any cheaper.   Tom: It's all just rising so quickly related on the materials costs. I had some read to replace a deck in my house, and we ended up using this bamboo composite and it actually turned out really great. I was a little concerned but our contractor said he had used it on a couple of projects, so shout out bamboo composite decking.   Mindy: Oh, I haven't heard of that before.   Tom: Yeah, it's I think Momo MooMoo booboo, I forgot the name of the exact the name of it. Mozu it might be. But anyways, waterproofs, warranty, all that good stuff. This episode is not brought to you by but we're going to market it anyway.   Michael: Let's shift gears here, Mindy. And I would love to chat with you and get your thoughts, insights, opinions on being a female investor. And what that's like, in what seems to be often a male co opted space.   Mindy: Yeah. So it makes it really easy to that people. It's really easy to decide who I want to work with and who I doubt and it's based on how they treat me. I am not necessarily the only woman in the room, but I'm frequently one of just a couple. And if you you know when you're dealing with contractors, if you call me honey, I'm not working with you, sweetie, baby. Tell me what you need. Tell me what color you want. I don't have a lot of self esteem issues. So if you don't want to work with me, because I'm a woman, I don't care.   I know a lot of people who will work with me because they have this is 2021 Why is that even an issue? But it can be an issue for, you know, for people who aren't as obnoxious as I am. But I want to invest in real estate. So I'm going to and if you don't, if you don't want to deal with me, that's okay, I'll find somebody else who will.   But what is it? Like? It's gotten a lot better. I think that there is a lot more understanding that women are investors. I mean, we're just investing we're not I don't have to lift up the house, I don't have to, you know, use my muscles to do things. So it's like, there shouldn't be any difference. But there are, and I got big muscles. So yeah, it used to be a lot different. But now it's changing.   Tom: I guess, one kind of follow up. Final question related to that. Do you have any advice or recommendation for female listeners who want to become active involved in their area?   Mindy: I am going to go back to the advice that I gave in the beginning and educate yourself. When you come in knowing what you're talking about. People will listen. And the you know, it's okay to ask questions, but ask them in an intelligent manner. And do research in advance to see if you can answer your own question. But there's, you know, there's a lot of nuances in real estate, you can absolutely ask questions based on the nuance.   But hey, how do I get started? Is not the best question to answer to ask, what are the benefits of this strategy versus that strategy is a better way to go? doing a little bit of research, you know, understanding that there are differences and doing a little bit of work on the front end will get you better answers and more people who are willing to talk to you.   But there's a lot of self education, you can do YouTube channels, podcasts, books, blog posts, people are talking about real estate investing right now. And it's like the cool thing to do. And if you want to be a real estate investor, why do you want to be a real estate investor? What do you hope to get out of it? You know, ask yourself all of those questions, and then just jump in.   Tom: Love it. Michael, do you have any other questions? Or is it a good time to jump into some quickfire questions that we have?   Michael: No, Let's jump right in the quickfire? That sounds great. Perfect. All right. All right, Monday, so I'm gonna ask you a series of 10 questions. These are either or questions. Just kind of like a quick, quick response. Are you ready for some quickfire questions?   Mindy: Hit me.   Tom: All right. Consolidation or diversification?   Mindy: Oh, diversification.   Tom: High property taxes, or high income taxes?   Mindy: Oh, I don't like either of those. Um, I would say high income taxes, because there are ways to shield the income taxes. And there are ways to reduce your taxable income, whereas they're your property taxes, just your property tax.   Tom: I was going to let you get away with neither are you going but your answer ended up being much more interesting. Good one. I like that. All right.   High rent growth or low vacancy.   Mindy; Ooh. Oh, right. Yeah. turnovers their profit killers. So yeah, low vacancy, I guess. No, I like these questions.   Tom: I know. That's what that's why they that's what they call it the hot seat. All right. Next one. Cash Flow or appreciation?   Mindy: Cash Flow always because you cannot predict appreciation unless it's forced appreciation. I like forced appreciation more than cash flow. But you didn't say force you just said regular.   Tom: Yeah, I think you could take any flavor of that.   Mindy: Oh, then forced appreciation.   Tom: Excellent. Debt or equity?   Mindy: Equity.  No, well, no debt or equity?.... debt right now because it's so cheap. Yeah.   Tom: Yeah. I love it. Love it. Love it. All right. Next one single family or multifamily?   Mindy: I've always done single family, but I see the appeal of multifamily.   Michael: Alright. Alright, so, right.   Tom: All right. Yeah. local or remote investing?   Mindy: Ooh, I prefer local but I've done both. I just like to be there.   Tom: I think I know the answer to this next question, turnkey or massive project?   Mindy: Massive project.   Tom: All right, final three questions we're going to these are a little bit outside of the real estate box.   The midnight oil or the early bird worm?   Mindy: Oh, early bird worm. I go to bed super early but I get up early to early bird.   Tom: Early bird worm, me too. Alright. text message or email?   Mindy: Oh, email because it's illegal method of notification and text message is not.   Tom: Good. And the final question here, all of your answers are like really thoughtful like good, really great responses we've had like, I've learned I usually it's like I'm not learning things on these hot seat but like this. Alright, mini the final one. Olive oil or butter?   Mindy: Oh, wow, it depends on if you're doing high heat cooking. Butter will burn olive oil is a high heat oil. If I'm putting it on a muffin, it's butter.   Tom: Alright, butter. Butter. It is Yeah. You not only survived the hot seat, you thrived. That was fantastic.   Michael: I'm just picturing an olive oil soaked muffin.   Tom: Dude, olive oil cake. It's a thing. It's a thing.   Mindy: Oh, really? Yeah, I made brownies. Once I made it. I didn't have any oil. So I use olive oil and it did not taste good. I mean, they were brownies. They were still okay, but you could taste the olive oil with Yeah, that's really good to know.   Tom: Thank you so much Mindy for coming on. I love these. I love these episodes, because it's kind of self serving and just learning a ton. Really appreciate your time coming on.   Mindy: Well, thank you for having me. This is super fun. I like that hot seat. Actually. I just didn't like that one question.   Tom: That was the best Hot Seat I think we've we've had like over 100 episodes and…   Mindy: Oh, I was gonna say what is this episode two?   Michael: That's great. No, that that was that was by far the best one. Really? Thank you so much for taking the time for hanging out with us and helping educate. This was great.   Alright, everybody, that was our episode a big big, big thank you to Mindy. That was a lot of fun bar none best quickfire answers we've heard on the show to date. So for all of our future guests, that's a challenge to you to top Mindy's answers.   Hope you enjoyed the episode today. If you would like please feel free to give us a rating review wherever it is. Listen your podcast. If you're checking this out on YouTube, please feel free to subscribe to the channel so you get all the most up to date episodes as they come out.   Again, thanks for listening and happy investing.   Tom; Happy investing

Tom How brings God's word from 1 Kings 19, speaking on the Holy Spirit in the Old Testament, symbolised by a gentle whisper.

Show Notes [00:01:47] Balancing multiple things at one time. Helen asks Tom: How do you manage all of those passion projects and having a full-time job too? [00:02:08] When you do everything you're ‘supposed' to and you are still unhappy  “I was lost. I did everything I was supposed to. I chased, I was well paid. I had titles, all this stuff and I have an amazing wife and three amazing daughters and I felt dead inside. And there, I believe there are a lot more people that are that way. They just don't know it, or they're afraid they don't know who to talk to about it.” [00:04:33] Am I living in everyone else's expectations? [00:07:05] Authors as Your Chosen Mentors – Our Desire to Grow is a Gradual, Learning Process [00:13:03] The Process of Getting Comfortable with the Hard Questions [00:15:29] The process of accepting your past, embracing Self-Forgiveness: “I have to shed that because I can't move forward.” [00:22:20] The Art of Focus: Our minds focus on THOUSANDS of things a day [00:25:54] Finding Release from Unnecessary Stressors [00:30:15] Importance of Spiritual Practices [00:32:07] Escaping from our “hamster wheel of torture  [00:34:32] Boundaries in Media Consumption [00:42:03]-  [00:44:59] Tom Shares a Story of His Daughter: On Perceived Failure + Perspective [00:48:26] Healing from Hard Circumstances:  “awaken and be at peace and ease”.  [00:55:36] Shutting Off our “Monkey Minds”

In this Episode Emil, Tom & Michael cut through the noise and explain how to calculate cash flow properly.    --- Transcript   Emil: Hey everyone, welcome back for this week's episode of The Remote Real Estate Investor. My name is Emil Shour. And I'm joined by my co host,   Tom: Tom Schneider.   Michael: Michael Albaum.   Emil: And today we're going to be talking about how should you actually calculate cash flow. There's a lot of different formulas out there. And we want to clear the air and give you a we believe is the best way to calculate what your projected cash flow should be as you're analyzing a property. So let's get into this episode.   Theme Song   Emil: Alright, guys, so this was actually a topic that I thought would be interesting to cover, because I feel like there's a lot of misinformation out there. And I feel like it's really easy to read case studies and blogs and go on YouTube or on social media. And you'll see people talking about their cash flow. And the numbers seem outrageous, right? It's like a property renting for 1100 dollars. And they're talking about $400 of cash flow a month. And obviously, it seems like there's a lot of things missing from the way their, their expected cash flow should actually look like. And so I thought it'd be good for us to dive into this on this episode. Have you guys seen the same thing? Like a lot of people?   Michael: Yeah, I have a property that rents for 1100 cash flows 400 bucks a month, so this is gonna be interesting.   Emil: Oh, do you   Michael: No just kidding.   Emil: Do you guys see this a lot? Do you guys like get this kind of feeling like being prevalent out there that a lot of people maybe aren't calculating cash flow the right way?   Tom: Or they just inflate it a little bit to feel good about yourself.   Emil: Sound cool?   Michael: Yeah, he's a bit of an ego thing.   Tom: Yeah, the thing with returns and what I like about this episode is man assumptions are just so important. And two people can be looking at the same deal, analyzing it and come up with completely different returns based on the way that they're calculating these, you know, what's in the sausage factory of those calculations is just so critical.   Emil: Yep.   Michael: I agree. I think that's kind of where deals often get made or broken is in the assumptions. And if you make a bad assumption, you can very easily buy a bad deal. And you could just as easily lose out on a good deal. So getting good at making assumptions is huge. But I totally see this regularly, where people aren't including the things that I would include in their cash flow calculation to determine what it is, I think it's it's too often to light.   Emil: Yeah, I agree. I've actually seen examples of this of properties that I've analyzed, like someone posted on Twitter, a property they just purchased. And I remember that exact property, and I had underwrote it as well. And my cash on cash was like half of what, you know, they said their cash on cash was going to be so I've seen it on like, on property, like specific properties, I've underwritten, too. So hopefully, it's a good episode for people to just have like a little bit more of like realistic expectations of what their cash flow could look like after they really account for everything and peanut butter spread all the expenses that come up throughout the year, right, Tom?   Tom: Jiffy, that Oh, yeah.   Michael: Jiffy on the spot?   Emil: All right, let's start out by talking about like, what is the formula? What expenses should you be considering as you're calculating this number?   Michael: The PITI is an acronym for your principal, interest, taxes and insurance. So the principal and interest is just determined by whatever the mortgage looks like, whatever the interest rate, whatever the amortization period is, and then your property taxes, if you are escrowing, these, the lender will often pay them for you. And so you pay monthly into this account. And you don't have to have this big property tax bill once or twice a year. And so I would always call the county assessor to determine what the after sale property tax looks like for an investor, and then obviously, divide that number by 12, to get a monthly cash flow amount.   And then your insurance, I use a very ballpark estimate of point eight 1.2% of the purchase price for properties under 150 K. And for properties over 150 K, you're probably looking closer to one half - .8% of the purchase price, one half percent to .8% of the purchase price. And so I'll use that number divided by 12. And again, apply that to my monthly cash flow. So you've got your principal interest, taxes and insurance, and then your property management on top of that, Tom, what are some other expenses that I want to hog the mic here that you would include in your monthly cash flow?   Tom: Ohh, vacancy, so an often assumption used is half of a percent of the annual rent or perhaps a month, depending on what that term time is, like, like a more conservative would be doing it a month, but hopefully that would be shorter than that. Another one is within that property management fee, or I guess this would be separate but they would be managing that process. If you're using professional property management would be turned costs would be repairs and maintenance costs and to define the term cost. That's the cost You're paying after your tenant moves out, and you have to get the property rent ready again. So that's typically more static stuff, some paints and carpet, perhaps if there's some older deferred maintenance that was there when the tenant was living there that kicked down a line that would be addressing any of those issues. So turn costs, what do you typically budget for your? I'd love to hear what you guys typically budget around turn costs.   Michael: 1 million dollars. I've seen this inverse relationship between monthly rent, amount of the property and turn costs. So if I've got a $2500 a month rental, my turn reserved that I'm escrowing is going to be a lot less than a $500 a month apartment. So can I have a bigger security?   Emil: Do you guys have a separate turn reserve? Yes, don't just leave it as a repair and maintenance and it kind of just gets lumped in there.   Michael: I mean, it can, I just am mentally bucketing money for when the turn comes, that's totally independent of the regular repair and maintenance and the regular capex that I'm anticipating and also reserving for a page back the roof, exterior paint that kind of stuff.   Tom: You have a mental escrow account.   Michael: Yeah, mental escrow account, but also I put it into my calculator, it is a separate line item. But yeah, mentally, I'm thinking about like, Okay, this money is going towards the eventual turn inevitable term for kind of middle of the road rental, I put a couple hundred bucks. Yeah, on it, depending on when the last time that the unit was turned. If you did a big turn at the beginning, your subsequent turns are probably going to be a lot less. And you can also do things on the front end, like tenant proof properties, put in vinyl flooring, laminate flooring, as opposed to carpet, you never have to worry about that, again, you know, maybe tougher cabinets, builder grade cabinets, you can put into the getting into get less banged up. So there are things you can do on the front end to make your turn reserves down the road, your turns less expensive.   Tom: I'm going through a turn right now on one of the properties. And thankfully, the property manager which just did their move out inspection in the properties in great shape. So this is going to be a fairly inexpensive turn, it's like 400 bucks or something like that just to do kind of a deep cleaning. But in my experience, turn costs have ranged anywhere from 400 to like 10,000 bucks if there's a lot of deferred maintenance. And where you see those big deferred maintenance is oftentimes if you have a tenant that's been living in the property for a super long time, then stuff builds up over time. Sneaky stuff sneaks up like fences and any kind of like loose decks and stuff like that is the one that always surprised me that I'm like, dang, that's expensive. So in budgeting, kind of depending on the condition of the home, my kind of down the middle of the line, say we're talking about a 1700 square foot three bedroom, two bath, I typically budget around 2000 bucks or something like that for the turn if it's occupied. And it's, you know, been so for 12 months.   Michael: Wow. $2,000 you budget for the return? I mean, for the for the turn,   Tom: I'd say anywhere between 1000 and 2000 bucks. I mean, I don't know you don't necessarily and be overly cautious, but then optimistic.   Emil: So how, at this point, how are you even making any money on these with all those assumptions? I'm kidding, we don't have to get into that. But I think the only other one we're missing is utilities. So if you're buying a single family home, most of the time, water and electric are going to be even lawn service, all that stuff is going to be covered by the tenant. So you don't have a ton of utilities to pay for. If you're buying multifamily. A lot of times you as the owner, you're on the hook for water heat, sometimes depending on where you're buying a couple other different things. So I've noticed with multifamily, you have to account for a lot more utility versus single family, the tenant is covering a lot of those.   Michael: And also depending on how the property is metered, you may not be able to push utilities onto the tenant for multifamily and a lot of multifamily also have what's called a house meter, which is a common area usually just electric meter. That's good for common area lights, exterior lights, that kind of thing. So you'll as the owner will likely be responsible for that. Let's say again, just check how the property is metered. And that'll give you some indication of whether or not you as the owner are going to be paying utilities whether or not you're going to submeter it or check some of that expense back to the tenants in the form of a utility bill back or just included on the rent. Again, check how it's metered.   Emil: Yep. So okay, so I think those are all the different line items It was interesting to do because you guys have a couple more line items than I do so that may be some homework for me to start being a little more conservative. I thought I was being conservative here I am looking at you guys like dang   Tom: Looking back at my bottle I I estimate typically like 1000 bucks not 2000 bucks in that like catbacks turn costs but a lot of that is dependent on what I'm seeing like within the inspection if it's like in pretty good shape your point to Tom How do you ever cash flow on your on your property with that turning cost is is right and so yes, a little bit less overzealous with my Yeah, not 2000 roughly you know 750 to 1000 bucks is is more where I target that turn costs the once a tenant moves out. So within that cash flow assumptions,   Michael: And is that inclusive of like cap x reserves to for HVAC roof? Or is that a separate line item?   Tom Two separate line items. So one of them would be for R&M for costs that I'm incurring? Well, the tenant is in the property. So roughly 75 bucks a month, maybe 100 bucks a month, and hopefully a lot of the months that doesn't happen, and you don't do that, but then a separate line item for reserve for capital expenditures.   Michael: And so is your turn reserve considered cap x?   Tom: Yes, that is that. Am I thinking about this the same way that you are? What? Go ahead, Michael.   Michael: Yeah, I mean, I just have a separate, I break it out, separate I call it, you know, turn reserve versus capex. My turn reserve I expect to spend every year or every tenant turn versus the cap x is more, I think 10. Instead of that a little going into this bucket, that's going to be a piggy bank to draw on when I need to replace the roof replace the fat. But at the end of the day, I mean, the money is going into the account anyhow. So I just mentally earmark it for certain purposes.   Tom: I like it. So just to paraphrase the three buckets that you have within these type of costs is R&M tenant occupied, right. Yeah. And then one would be turned costs just bread and butter, cleaning paint. And then the third one would be more specific for like, roof or like, you know, major property system? Ah, back. Yeah, Michael: Big ticket systems.Yeah, exactly.   Tom: I like it. Nice. Nice.   Emil: You got a lot of very detailed Michael, I like it.   Michael: I'm a reformed engineer. I don't have a choice.   Emil: All right. So we've gone over, like, what's the formula world of things we consider, we've kind of like sprinkled in some of our assumptions, but maybe we should just go through each line item and give what we think maybe are some good assumptions for people. Would that be helpful?   Michael: Totally. Let's do it.   Emil: Okay. All right. So mortgage, I don't think we need to get into how you can go online, use a mortgage calculator, figure out your mortgage payment. That one's pretty, pretty simple. Insurance. Michael, I really liked your, your kind of formula, I use something pretty close. Can you describe that again?   Michael: Yeah, so I like to use and this holds fairly true for properties. 150,000 purchase price or less. So I like using point eight to 1.2% of the purchase price. So let's just take an example a property's 100,000. on the low end, we're talking $800 a year on the high end, probably around 1200. And what's going to make the difference on that sliding scale is one, how conservative how much insurance? Are you looking to get? What type of policies that are replacement cost versus actual cash value? Is it really a comprehensive policy? Or is it named peril? So I am a very conservative person, I come from the insurance industry, I grew up in the insurance industry, so I get a more expensive policy than is available for that same hundred thousand dollar property, you know, my guess is you could go get insurance for 400 500 bucks annually, it is available is out there.   But it's probably not going to be the type of coverage that I'm comfortable with. And so to help me sleep at night, I'm going to up the coverages, I'm going to add some additional layers to it probably get some additional liability coverage. And so the additional coverages just have additional cost. So for the extra $300 a year, or $600, or whatever it is, that's often worth it to me. So I've just over the years and purchasing properties and helping other people purchase properties, that point eight to 1.2% of the purchase price tends to be fairly reasonable. And I'm confident that getting that type of coverage, you shouldn't be paying much more than that, that's going to be on the high end, being very conservative.   So if that ends up being your biggest expense on the property, you know, of course, we might want to go back and take a second look at things and say, oh, maybe we were too conservative. But I find that typically the $300 that we might be too overly conservative isn't going to push something from a no go into a go category. There are typically going to be other expenses that are significantly larger as a percentage of the income that we want to take a second look at and see if we can't refine those a little bit more. So that was a super long winded rant. Hope that answers the question Emil.   Emil: No, that was good. That was great. Okay, so that's insurance. Tom, anything you want to add there anything you kind of like to use for an assumption that's made different from what Michael mentioned,   Tom If you look at the Roofstock calculator, really helpful tool, you log in to Roofstock and look at an individual listing. And then you click on financials. Just below that financials tab, you can click on cashflow, you can see kind of a rundown of all these different costs. The Roofstock calculator is pretty handy in that you can see all these assumptions. One thing I like about Michael's example for insurance is he does it as a percentage of the purchase price. It's just kind of general guidance. And a lot of values in the risk calculator does it a percentage of income. So I think in some cases, a percentage of income makes sense. And in some cases, a percentage of the value makes sense. So just as kind of like an FYI, you can see these assumptions in here and looking at a property that's $110,000 we can see this insurance value is pretty close to Michael's assumption of point zero Point 8% point oh 8%.   Michael: Yeah, yeah,   Tom Where that would be $800. This example is a little bit less than that at $110,000. Home is around $600. But within rootstocks calculation for insurance, they'll actually get a value that a insurance company will, will bind again. So part of the Roofstock's operations team, they'll go out and work with one of our insurance partners, insurance costs can change based on what kind of deductible you have. So depending on what value you have, it could either the price go up or down. But that's my two cents is I'll just touch on Roofstock as a platform and their calculator, the value they have and where it comes from.   Emil: Cool. So next one is property tax. I don't think you should estimate anything for this one, I think Michael mentioned called the property assessor, some cities, they have a like part of their website, you can literally just go put in the value that you're going to be buying at you and put in the address, and it'll spit out what the new property tax will be. So this one's probably no one you kind of estimate based on percentages or whatever. This is something, it varies from state to state, city to city, you should probably just go figure out what it is for your market. So you can accurately estimate it.     Tom: There's a lot of landmines and trying to calculate property taxes, one of them being if you're looking at last year's taxes, the current owner might be an owner occupied, so they get a homeowner's exemption. So I would be conservative in that property tax assumption.   Emil: Cool. Alright, so next one is property management, property management. This one's usually pretty easy to figure out, you know, as you're interviewing different property managers, you find out what their property management fee is, whether it's flat fee or percentage of monthly rents, like Tom and Michael were talking about, and this isn't something I should I do but I should be doing in that property management or you can have it as a different line item, adding it make sure you add in whatever you think for lease or releasing fee, right, so releasing fee will usually be a smaller percentage than a completely new lease, but factoring in every year that the property manager is going to charge either a release fee or if it's a new tenant, a leasing fee. So adding that up there, Tom, you want to add something   Tom: Yeah, just specific to roof stocks calculator that it has or any calculator that you're building perhaps in Excel with rootstocks calculator, It defaults at 8%, I remember something that we wanted to do on the product side was make it like updated dynamically based on picking a property manager if you use one of Rootstock's preferred property managers to automatically update, but whatever the case is, when you know what that property manager fee is going to be for rent collection, you should update your calculator accordingly, within rootstocks calculator, it defaulted. 8%, but you should keep that updated.   Emil: All right, give me on. Okay, so after property management, we have utilities. And so for utilities for anything, two units, plus, I use $1,000 per year per unit. So if I'm looking at, let's say, a four unit building, and I want to figure it out monthly, it's just $1,000 times forums 4000, divided by 12, to find the monthly for single family, I don't have a more cookie cutter approach. Again, it's it's a lot of the times utilities are going to be covered by the tenant. But sometimes depending on some cities, like I own a property in St. Louis, a single family home in St. Louis, the water bill and the sewer bill are separate. Whereas most other cities, it's all on one bill. And so the tenant pays the water bill. But the sewer bill comes to me as the owner. So that's something I have to factor in as part of my utilities. Are you guys any kind of formula you use to estimate utilities?   Tom: I think on every lease that I have the tenant pays for utilities, I don't even have that in my, in my model, I guess it's more common with multifamily and bigger stuff. But utility isn't even something that we'll have. Perhaps during the turn, you know, I might spend like $10, or whatnot, just during the turn time where the utilities will be on me as the landlord, but for the most part, yeah, I don't consider that. In my cash flow.   Michael: I was gonna say for me for multifamily, it's, it's similar, I think 1000 bucks a year per unit is fairly reasonable, depending on what utilities are being paid by the owner. And usually the listing will say on or paid heat, water or whatever. And that can give get pretty good insight into all tenant paid utilities. Okay, that's gonna be a whole lot less than a grand a unit a year,   Emil: Like 12 months of expense, prior expenses from the seller. And so you can kind of see like, how much are they paying for all these different expenses and see if it lines up with what you have and if you need to adjust up or down but as I have no information, I just put $1,000 a year per unit.   Michael: Yeah. And I would say don't hope that you get those t twelves. Go demand those in the due diligence. I would say that's something that you really need to get a handle on before you close the property because you could find out that you were way off on your estimate and really buy yourself an alligator.   Emil: As our good friend Michael Zuber likes to call it absolutely. Next one is repair and maintenance and capex some people separate those out. Most people separate them out. I have them as one line item now and for multifamily, I'm using hundred dollars a month per unit is what I do for repair, maintenance and capex just kind of all together. for single family I've usually used 120 550 per month on single family is the amount I've used for repair and maintenance and capex as one line item. How about you guys?   Michael: like Tom for my repair and maintenance, I break it out into those three that we talked about. So for repair and maintenance, I'll use 75 $200 a month depending on the property size, and location and tenant class. So in a milder climate with a good tenant, that's not a massive property, I'll use 75 bucks a month, all the way up to the size of 100 bucks a month. And then for capex, I really let the inspection report dictate what that looks like. So if you've got that in advance, like on a roof stock property, you can get a decent handle on what that might look like. versus just looking at the photos or plugging something in for a run of the mill single family home that seems to be in decent shape 750 bucks a year, between 750 to 1000 bucks a year for capex usually should do it, that's, you know, in three years time, you'll have 2000 plus dollars set aside.   And also, depending on if I'm going to get a home warranty or not, for that property is going to also determine what type of capex budget I'm looking at. And capex is kind of one of those tough ones too, because it's a bit of a living, breathing, moving target. If I just replaced the H fac this year, well, now I'm going to put less money set aside for that each of that going forward because I know I got another 10 to 15 years out of it. So depending on the life of the systems, I call it the property will dictate what that budget what that number should be.   Tom: Ditto to Michael and I like that concept of kind of trade off, you know, you might not what you might be spending more on one year on the turn or or catbacks you know, major property systems that's going to take away for future costs related to to R&M. So similar to Michael and structuring that and if you really wanted to geek out and get really sophisticated on building a crystal ball to estimate some variables that we used when I was working on one of the REIT the vintage of the property was the size of the property just because oftentimes these costs, especially on the turn are directly related to how big the property is and square footage, and perhaps certain vintage, you might expect more or less on those turn costs. Those are some important variables to consider.   Michael: The one thing I would say on vintage is just look to find out what's been done on the property. I've got a 4-Plex that was built in like 1892. And we did a total gut rehab on it down to the studs, we put in brand new electrical brand new plumbing, brand new roof. I mean, everything is brand new. So the year of construction is at 92. So if someone attacks record, that's what they would see. But as far as the insurance is concerned, the effective year of construction in 2019. So I would say you know, with a take it with a grain of salt look just a little bit beyond the year of construction to determine Okay, what was done? Absolutely, if something was built in the 50s it's going to have more maintenance and something that was built in 2000s. But if that 1950s has all new electrical plumbing, I would say they might be comparable or that might could even be more updated.   Tom: before we run out of time. I'd love to hear your guys's thoughts, more multifamily dudes on like in ciliary and silivri income like perhaps having a laundry machine or having like storage sales. How do you guys underwrite that when you're thinking about cash flow on your multifamily? Because there's also the costs of like up keeping those type of amenities?   Michael: Absolutely. So for me, I'll just jump in here Emil for I gotta hop off. It's something that I think about, and we'll calculate if it's like a reasonable assumption. And so for me, I just have laundry, the vast majority of multifamily on site coin laundry, it's not a big moneymaker by any means. I mean, 15 to 20 bucks a month, maybe. But there's cost associated. so there's costs associated with that T rex and paying the water and electric bill for those machines because those are on house meters. So the big ones that I like that I use is storage, digital storage or parking. I know pretty darn sure what I can get for those on a monthly basis is for rent comps talking to property managers and also it has zero expense. So those are ones that I really like adding into the pro forma or using to drive value and increase the NOI.   Emil: For me I am newer to multifamily so I don't have like the confidence Michael does and knowing Okay, we have a garage we have some spaces how much we can get for it. So I don't even account for any of that and laundry. Even if you have a bigger building maybe you account for it, but I haven't been when I'm looking at stuff I just those to me are are extras, but I haven't really been accounting for those is that extra income because like Michael mentioned, they do come with some extra expense as well. So unless it's parking, parking and storage, that's that's on the property, but laundry, it's you know, you're paying for that as a landlord potentially. Okay, so you guys had mentioned turn that you guys actually have it as a separate line item. I think we already were to talk about kind of what you guys set aside for that. So Tom, you mentioned like $1,000 every year every other year, how do you set that term budget aside?   Tom: Yeah, I would set it as an annual You will amount 750 to 1000 bucks. And again, if the property's been occupied for a long period of time, I would expect that eventually be a little bit north of that value. But you know, be happily surprised when you get back in your turn cost is 400 bucks, 300 bucks, and that that you can roll around in that extra money.   Emil: Yeah. And you know, it also, I think it depends on property type, right, with multifamily, you're just gonna typically see higher turnover. So you're gonna have more turns where a single family I don't know about you, Tom. But like, single family, a lot of my tenants stay really long term like I've had of the four single family homes I've owned over the last couple years, I've had one turn, the rest of them have stayed even with rent increases, like single family tenants just seem to stay a lot longer.   Tom: I totally agree. I mean, I was saying I had a turn right now, but it's like, it's pretty far and few between. I think you're right, though. And there are studies around SFR having longer duration. And it makes sense. I don't modify my cash flow assumptions. I'll still assume you know, based on whatever is on the lease like expect, the worse that they're going to move out. But generally speaking, like you said, oftentimes be surprised. happily surprised. Roll around that extra dough.   Emil: Awesome. All right. So then the last one, I think we should cover here that we mentioned in the different expenses, you should be considering his vacancy. What's funny is for single family, I always do 5%. I feel like that's like the industry standard. But again, if I'm looking at my actual vacancy across my portfolio, it is way below that I think it's just good to be conservative, because I don't know, maybe you're in a city or an area where your tenant does leave once a year, whatever that may be. And it kind of equates to 5%. But honestly, I've heard so many people who have seen my family and they're like, you know, they're good landlords, they have the same tenants for five to 10 years. So your vacancy becomes real tiny.   Tom Especially Emil, I think if you are getting in really nice school districts, it's a hassle. Like if you have a rental in a nice school district, and you have good tenants with kids, like no reason to move out, you know, I think it's an upside to including that in your acquisition strategy a little bit.   Emil: Totally. So that 5% for single family for multifamily, I do seven and a half 8%, usually just depending on where I'm investing in. But I feel like that's a solid level, like seven and a half percent. A lot of these things also, especially as you're learning a new market, every market I think is different. And you're estimating these expenses, but I imagine in five to 10 years, I'm going to be much better at like being able to look back at all my expenses for five years and say, Okay, here's what it actually averaged out to be. And here's how my pro forma should change. So you know, I think right now, it's like, especially in the early goings, you're kind of just taking some different assumptions, either talking to people who are in that market, or figuring it out. And then I think over time, you're just gonna get really good at knowing, alright, my expenses are basically this amount every single year per unit. This is my vacancy over the last five years. So I think, just with time, you'll get really, really good at these pro forma. Yeah,   Tom: Yeah. And when you're setting that budget, and thinking about your cash flow, that's goal setting, right? And to be successful, and to make money as a real estate investor is to, you know, spend less and make more. And once you identify those numbers, those are specific values that you're working against. So when you get to the end of the year, it's like, Okay, how do we do against these values, and hopefully beat them. And if you don't, you know, reasons why and how to improve upon it. And if you don't beat those value goals, hopefully you put enough of a cushion, that you can still be fine. And then get back at it next year and work with your property manager if you're working with a property manager. So it's fun.   One other line item for you Emil is HOA fees. So if you're buying a property, and there's a homeowner's association fee, and those can be super high in some areas, especially if you're buying like condos, or they can be really, really low. So that's a really important consideration because that's money in money out.   Emil: Yeah. And like you mentioned, some of them are high and some of them are low. Like I have one property, I only have one property that's in an HOA, and it's $21 a month so as I was looking at it, everything else I really didn't want a property with an HOA but at $21 it wasn't really affecting my monthly cash flow. And so yeah, I went with that. But yeah, be careful sometimes it can be $100 plus, so that can really really you know, mess with your cash flow number. So good call Tom.   Tom: And kind of back to that exercise of comparing your pro forma assumptions for cash flow to actual you have some actions that you can do to try to improve them specifically around shopping. for insurance costs, that's something that I need to do right now, to revamp the insurance costs, looking at mortgage rates, interest rates have never been lower. So you can beat those values. And then looking at that trade off between taking care of items on the turn or just repair replace. So there's a lot of places that you as an investor, in working with your property manager and some of your other partners that you have, there's actionable item, actionable items to improve on those values.   Emil: Yep. You know, there's other small things, right? Like if you are again, buying, let's say, a four unit building, and you're on the hook for water, installing low flow toilets, right, not expensive, but over the course of a year, it can add up to some decent savings that probably more than paid for the toilet in the first year. So like there's, you know, little things you can do to also try to decrease your expenses along the way.   Tom: Yeah. And rent growth versus vacancy. You know,   Emil: There you go.   Tom: Have we done a debate on that rent growth versus vacancy?   Emil: We haven't we should   Tom: That's coming up in the pipeline, for sure.   Emil: Yeah.   Tom: I like the question of you know, do you are raising rates at the risks of vacancy? Right, I got a feeling I think I know where we're gonna land. But it'll be fun to just switch back and forth in that debate.   Emil: Yeah. I also think it's depending on what you invest in, I think dictates how you do it. Right? If you're investing in something that's valued on cap rate makes a lot more sense. Because it's all based on income versus a home or up to four units based on sales comps. You know, you're less incentivized   Tom: Very astute point, Emil makes a lot of sense.   Emil: But we can get into all that in a debate.   Tom: Yeah, it'll be a good episode.   Emil: With that. I think it's probably a good spot for us and this episode. Thank you again, everyone for lending us your ears, and we will check you out in next week's episode. Happy investing.   Tom: Happy investing.

“I don’t see color.” “We all bleed red.” “We’re all just human.” Oh God. No. #FacePalm If you’ve ever engaged in a dialogue on race or attempted to invite someone in on their racism, I would bet my favorite pen that you’ve heard some variation of these. Hey. I’ll up the bet. I’d wager my favorite pair of headphones that more likely than not it was one of us white folks who uttered said phrases too. All jokes and bets aside, phrases like “I don’t see color”—while good intentioned—derail efforts towards anti-racism. Rather than being egalitarian, they are actually racist. Now you might be saying to yourself, “What the hell, Tom? How is this racist?” Here’s my suggestion: listen to this week’s episode. My guests this week are Dr. Angela Courage! and Dr. LaTonya Jackson, authors of “5 Blinders to Seeing Color.” We took a deep dive into this topic and provided insights on how “I don’t see color” is problematic at best. If you’re striving to unpack your whiteness and privilege, or you’re looking for resources to send to a friend who keeps saying “I don’t see color,” we have you covered. In addition, during this episode we talked about: race power privilege color colonialism. control social privilege economic privilege layers of privilege international question: “we don’t have white privilege in my country” → colorism. corporate issues ←- relating to race. individual issues ←- relating to race. We really went in on this one and I know it will bring you tremendous value. Hit play and let me know what was your biggest aha. You can learn more about Dr. Angela Courage! and Dr. LaTonya Jackson’s work at - seecolorr.com.

In this episode, we have Katrina Phillips from Investor HOA Services on to explain everything investors should know about investing in properties that are a part of HOAs.  --- Transcript   Tom: Greetings and welcome to The Remote Real Estate Investor. On today's episode, we have one of the most knowledgeable persons I know on HOA. We have Katrina Phillips, who's the founder and CEO of investor HOA services. So are you, you are interested in investing in a property that is in an HOA. This is a great episode to listen to. All right, let's do it.   Theme Song   Tom: Hey, Katrina. Thank you so much for jumping on with us.   Katrina: Thank you. Thank you so much for having me today. It's my favorite topic to discuss.   Tom: Perfect. Well, why don't we go ahead and start, give us a little bit of a background about yourself.   Katrina: So I started in the single family industry back in 2012. Prior to that, I was actually a contractor and had several properties that we bought refurbished and sold. And so I spent about 20 years in construction learning it from every aspect so that I can learn it from. And then I started working with American residential property and really develop their operating platform or was their first hire on their operations team. And people really hadn't done this in the past. The first multifamily, we were able to pull things from, but really we were writing the policies and procedures, the books and utilities and HOA were two things that people hadn't really thought about. It wasn't even a line item on people's profit and loss that they were considering in their, you know, when evaluating investments. And so we really began to build that piece of the process. How does that work? How does, you know, the fact that we own 70% of our properties are in an HOA? How do we interact with them and how does that work? So that's how I kind of got into this side of the business.   Tom: Awesome. It's funny to think about 2012 and I was there too. It was the wild West where, you know, a lot of these companies such as yours and the ones that I was working at was raising a ton of money, buying these houses. And it's just kind of learning as we go and, you know, HOA and utilities, you know, came to be pretty important, parts of the details in doing this at scale.   Katrina: It did. And it was so much fun. I thoroughly enjoyed every minute of it. And, uh, you know, we learned a lot and grew it, and here we are today.   Tom: That's awesome. And you have since gone on to start a new company, right? Why don't you tell us a little bit about your company that you are running right now?   Katrina: So I was actually sitting in a meeting and, um, we were working with a utility provider that function very similarly to what we have structured as well. We actually asked them the question of if they'd like to take on HOA as, you know, as part of their process and has it was becoming a really growing concern and issue and having some pretty significant impact on the bottom line for companies. So they said, absolutely not that they wanted to stick with what they specialize in and that really planted that seed for me. And so that's where investor HOA services came into play, where, you know, we took a singular focus to build an operations platform around that that also integrates pretty seamlessly with other companies, systems and process. I knew I couldn't go in and say, throw away what you're working on right now and use what I'm saying to use. I also knew that we had to get it so that people could kind of go to one place to access information and things that they needed to manage the property. And so that's what we began developing back in 2017 is really an operations platform that can be used in several other areas. We just chose to focus on HOA because we could see it with a growing concern, making bigger and bigger impacts to the bottom line of companies. So we focused in there first, so that is investor HOA services.   Tom: That's awesome. So to sort of paraphrase investor HOA services is a provider for investors to manage basically all things related to the hos for the properties that are located at those hos. Is that right? Is that a good summary?   Katrina: That's correct. So everything related in the full life cycle of compliance, which could be a city code, HOA, rental, registration, municipal permitting, and all of those kinds of things on the compliance side of property management.   Tom: Very cool. Very cool. Awesome. Well, let's go ahead and dig into some of the meat of this learning a little bit more about H ways and how they relate to investors who are evaluating. So why don't we take a step back and why don't you define what is an HOA and, you know, high level, what are they   Katrina: So HOAs can be actually kind of several different things. And of course there's no consistency across the country of what an HOA physically is, but in general, in HOA is a nonprofit company that manages common areas, common elements within the community amenities. And there's also of course, condo owner associations, there's civic associations that are often voluntary membership, and we're starting to see more and more different types of HOAs, such as a borough and a neighborhood developments. Of course, in Florida, you actually see a lot of community development districts. There's some really fun, fancy development districts in Florida that have waterslides and water parks and all kinds of fun things in those. And so to be a member or participate and utilize those amenities items, then you pay your assessments fee on an, you know, either quarterly or annual or semiannual basis. And the HOA then kind of takes care of all those common area elements.   Tom: Got it. And that's interesting about some of the, those new amenities that are poking up around water slides. I mean, he made it sound it optional at all to join the HOA, or is it like, you know, since your property's located there, or is it kind of built into the deed that you have to join the HOA? I'm curious about that.   Katrina: Yeah. Civic associations are voluntary. Often they'll have a community pool or something that is shared amenity there or a park or something along those lines. We'll see a lot of lakes and that kind of thing within a civic. So that's voluntary. You also have something called a club membership, which will be, you can pay for different levels of membership within that. So for example, most often they include a golf course. You know, they might include a workout facility that's extra above and beyond what a standard membership would be. And so those are voluntary in regards to what the levels are that you can buy into. But in general, yes, if you're in an HOA, just kind of a standard HOA, then you are required to participate in their program.   Michael: And it sounds like there's kind of numerous different styles of HOA. I know for me, when I hear HOA, I just automatically think of condo association, but what you're telling us is that they could apply to single family homes, town homes, you know, planned communities. Is that fair to say,   Katrina: Yes, they can be commercials, commercial spaces. There's just all kinds of different options out there.   Michael: Interesting. Got it.   Katrina: There's probably about 10 that are standard that we see standard across the board. And then in different parts of the country, you see kind of different nuances within that. Like I said, you'll see boroughs, of course, in New York and New Jersey, that's a little, you know, structured similarly to a civic or community development, but they all have a little bit of different nuances to them.   Michael: Okay. Interesting. And you touched on amenities a little bit, and I was curious if there is such a thing as kind of a common or a standard set of amenities that you get as being part of an HOA, or do they vary as drastic as the style of HOA that there could even be out there?   Katrina: They vary very drastically. So we have especially see this a lot in Georgia where maybe it was built in the eighties, especially, well, pretty much any community built within the 1970s and eighties when HOAs first kind of started coming on the scene, they are just more of a planned community. So you'll see the coldest actual see similarities in regards to finishes on the exterior and, you know, mailbox requirements and that kind of thing. And then it's kind of more where it evolves as time went on. And that's where you kind of see some standardization on what I guess they were into in that moment. So then you hit into the two thousands and, and then now into the late two or 2020 range, and you're seeing these, you know, fun things like that are going on in Florida. So really it varies pretty tremendously. And that's a big part of what we do is we look at okay, what amenities are available, where that assessment money going to, and what's the benefit you're receiving from that.   Tom: That's interesting. I never thought about it that way about, you know, the vintage of the property. Like what was the fad for developments in the way that they structure these communities? So depending on what year you bought it, it is kind of a different flavor of the way that they were structuring. Super interesting. So I got a question. So if you put your investor goggles on and just think this is very high level about evaluating a property with an HOA, what would you say generally speaking, like what are the good things about buying a rental property that's in an HOA and what would be some of the detractors of buying a property in investment property? That's at an HOA. So we'll start with the positive.   Katrina: Yeah, let's start with the positive. So one of the things we learned and identified very early on is here, we are an investment firm and we're based out of Scottsdale Arizona. And our house is in Georgia and the HOA begins to function as kind of your eyes and ears and helping you monitor and keep an eye on that property. So I think as an investor, that's a huge value to you. You don't have to actually have people on the ground, you know, checking that property, the HOA is doing that for you. So I think that's probably the biggest positive as well as from a leasing perspective, of course, you know, you're leasing a property that has most likely some upgraded amenities and features that are desirable to people leasing. So, you know, it assist with that, it making it a home to that person occupying that property, not just a rental, they feel like they're part of a community and part of a home on the flip side of that, that can actually, that community sense is something that the HOA have expressed that they're concerned about when institutional investors come into their community, will there be that loss of sense of community because it's a renter there and they're not going to actually participate in the HOA itself. So that can be a con I think one of the other issues that has occurred over the last several years and kind of my number one thing that I focus on is rebuilding communication bridges, because what happened was when institutional investors came into communities, the HOA did it kind of feared that and was a little concerned that the property values would degrade and there would be issues. So one of the things that has been, I guess, a missed out by the industry is that they didn't work to keep those communications open with the HOA and the HOA began to grow very frustrated. So what they've done out of their frustration is began to really Institute some rental restrictions to either prohibit institutional investment in that community, or really eliminate it and control it. So that's been kind of the, the other side of it that's evolved since 2012, when we first got into the industry, they were happy and they were excited about us coming into the communities. We were remodeling the property and making things better. And then that slowly started to shift in 2013 and 14, where they began to grow skeptical. So there's been a lot of work to alleviate that situation, but there's still some work to do there. So that's kind of the flip side of it, where the HOA is, are frustrated and they're kind of lashing out in these different ways to really essentially get some people's attention and get things cured. And together,   Michael: You touched on it a little bit ago, Katrina, but I wanted to circle back to it for my own edification. We said that HOA is our nonprofit businesses, who is the HOA when we talk about HOAs.   Katrina: So the HOA for the most part is a voluntary board of directors of owners within that community. So I we're seeing fewer and fewer of those, maybe it's because most HOA has gone out and decided to have a management company come in, such as associate or for service residential and come in and manage that. So the HOA is just meant to collect dues, cover the expenses of maintaining those common elements. And then that's pretty much it, that's all their job that's there. And then of course, to ensure that people adhere to the CC&Rs for that community and, you know, don't let their grass get to leave their garbage cans out, all that fun stuff.   Michael : Okay. And so when you talk about the HOA members or board being frustrated with institutional investors coming in and looking to crack down on that a little bit, that's just a group of owners in that specific community that are feeling that way and expressing those frustrations?   Katrina: Correct.   Michael: Got it.   Tom: Gosh, I love your point about, on the good side of thinking of as another eyes and ears. I think a lot of times, you know, we ask these questions, I kind of have an idea of which direction, you know, we're going to get a response, but I never thought about that way of thinking of the HOA as, as kind of part of your team love that. So you touched into a great transition point CC&Rs and, you know, making owners out here, what are some of the recourse that the HOA companies have and with owners that are not adhering, and I'd love for you to get into that and CC&Rs and rules around that.   Michael: And Katrina for those of our listeners that might not be aware, familiar, what does CC&R stand for?   Katrina: Covenants codes and restrictions? So it of course varies by state. Each state has some extra nuances. You know, Florida has some really interesting ones, New York, New Jersey as well. So the CCNR are put into place and in those CC and RS, it's really spelled out what the recourse is. We have some, we've had some interesting updates over the last several years in regards to what the HOA can charge you because previous to this, and it kind of started in an Arizona, which is where most HOA has, you know, kind of evolved from. But the previous to this legislation that came through the HOA, kind of do whatever they wanted in regards to getting your attention and having you pay fee. So we're seeing over the last five years or so where they're really standardizing that across the country, which is wonderful. We like standardization. And so they're making it so that they have to go through a very specific process to notify you of that violation, give you a period of time to cure. If you don't cure, then it goes to the next step. And so usually it's a courtesy warning, one, two, and three, then by warning three are incurring a fine, and those generally start at $25. But in a lot of States, we also have, what's called a stair set process, which is another thing that investors, there's a way to work around this or work with the HOA to do what we call the clean slate program. So the HOA in some States, the fines violations and assessment costs falls the property, not the owner. So you have a new tenant move into that property. And the prior tenant kept violating with trash cans being sent out. And that violation was then go into a monitor status from anywhere from six months to one year. And if they re-violate within that timeframe, it, it goes right back to where it left off.  So if you were at already at $75 in fines, it'll go to a hundred or it'll go to a hearing. So that's something that investors aren't aware of, but you can work with the HOA to, again, wipe that slate. Clean, say, we've had a new occupant in it. We're a new owner. We're going to do things differently now. And we promise you that we won't have those violations incurred. So like I said, it's been really interesting to see over the last several years where they've kind of standardized that with the HOA is, can do kinda maintaining some control. And that has to be documented in their CC and RS, what their fee schedules are now, which really helps you kind of plan for that and be prepared for what's going to come your way.   Tom: So what are the more common? So talking about, you know, people, you mentioned putting trash cans out, what are the other kinds of issues where people incur fines from HOA, those would be all in those CC&Rs and what are the common issues that you think most investors deal with or violate?   Katrina: So the number one thing, and we track this, we look at it, we break down and give a lot of granularity to the types of violations that are coming in. And number one on the list is always landscaping and specifically weeds, especially in April and October, when they're doing those inspections on that, and you can get almost weekly fines for that or notices of fine. So landscaping is number one, and I would say two is two and three are usually pretty close and it's trash cans and parking violation. So we have a lot of residents to try to park on the lawn, try to park, you know, on the street when street parking is not allowed.   Michael: I own a property in an HOA and I get nasty grams all the time. Trash cans are still out. It's been a week. I don't think God, God, God, I got to get ahold of the tenants and pass the message along.   Tom: Did you say nasty, nasty grams? Is that the nastygram?   Michael: Exactly, but a letter informing me of a violation, I call the nastygrams.   Tom: So how about when you do have some issue, can you guys push that to the tenants that are living at the property, if they're violating these rules? Like, are there any laws or registrations like around that? Like if they violate an HOA rule, should it be the tenant that has to pay it or fix it, or I'd love to hear your thoughts on that.   Katrina: Yes, indeed. So what we call that the tenant charge back process. So we actually have a whole workflow that goes through, we've received a courtesy notice. It gets sent to the tenant. The tenant actually, um, for most of our clients has about seven business days to return photos to us and make sure it's care. We're trying to really alleviate that even courtesy notice from going any further than that is we're trying to alleviate aggravation that the HOA is feeling about institutional investors. So we really work on the front end, as well as tenant education to let them know you live in a HOA, here's the rules and regulations that you need to be aware of. And most of the hos are now taking their several hundred page CC&R document and really narrowing it down to the top things to be aware of. So we make sure that that is available at the fingertips of the leasing team so that they can educate the tenant.  We find we have a much better experience with them. And so that all gets documented so that we can see very clearly, okay, is this an HOA issue or a resonant issue? The resident keeps leaving their trash can out every week. And now it's a thousand dollars in fines because they've been incurring daily fines, which always just makes me cringe because a thousand dollars just for leaving your trash can out, we see it all the time, but it's unfortunate to say the least. So there is a whole system and process where we educate the tenant. We notify the tenant every time we receive documentation and really keep them in the loop and engaged and involved with being part of that solution there versus, you know, ongoing continual issues. And then we also work with the leasing team so that they're aware of, Hey, I think you may need to have a conversation with us, this occupant here and see if you can alleviate that. And then the third piece of that is of course, communication directly with the HOA is to let them know we have informed the resonant. We have received these photos. Do you consider this violation cured and closed? That's then the issue that I've spoken to, a lot of, of the SFR groups out there where they have that $8,000 mailbox, because they sent out a contractor to fix the mailbox post, but they didn't fix it according to what the HOA was looking for. So we make sure we really communicate with the HOA and let them know what the care was and how it was fixed and make sure that they're good to go with that. And then if they, if there is a fine, we establish with our clients a list of what will be a charge back versus not. So for example, a trainees trend and it's above seven feet where it needs to trend. Most of our clients don't want their residents getting on a ladder. So they'll not charge that back. But if they do, if it's under the seven foot mark, then, and there is a fine incurred, then that gets put onto the tenant ledger to hold them accountable for that.   Tom: Got it. Jump just the other kind of aspect of the CC&Rs and the rules, not necessarily fines, but you know, percentage of the units that can be rented. So there's some other really important aspects of those rules that an investor would need to know that's in those CC&R. Do you mind touching on some of those,   Katrina: Right. So we complete a review of all CC and RS that come into us and we're looking for a rental or leasing restrictions. We're also looking for sign restrictions. And other thing that people don't often think about is that certain hos don't allow you to put a sign for lease sign in the front yard, or they don't allow, you know, you can put it in the window, but you can't put it anywhere else, or it has to be a certain size. So we'll look through that, the CCNRs to identify any of those kinds of issues. And then the rental restrictions kind of break down into three categories, either have category one where they just do not allow leasing in their community. And we will recommend that you dispose that property or they'll have the second category. Is there some kind of restrictions where they require a background check and approval of your resident before they move in, or there's a cap in place of 10%?  Usually there are things that you can work through on those rental caps, they're called hardship letters. And you can put in a hardship letter to that HOA requesting them to review and make an exception to that 10% cap. And then there's also in that category where you can't lease the property for anywhere from 12 to 24 months, it has to be owner occupied. So we then document that information in our systems so that you can see the breakout of that. And then they use third category is they just want a copy of the lease and to know who's renting the properties basically. So those documents are captured and sent over to the HOA,   Michael: Shifting gears here a little bit Katrina, I want to talk about HOA fees because you mentioned at the beginning that are nonprofit bodies or organizations. If you will. I feel like me personally, sometimes that they might be for profit, but so what are the fees usually go towards paying?   Katrina: So the piece should be going towards paying for those common area. Upkeep. There should be a capital reserve account noted on their budget. They should be issuing the budget to you on an annual basis and it should be reviewed and make sure that there, the other concern that I know a lot of investors have expressed is we keep paying these assessments, but the money is not going to what we've been paying into. And the HOA is virtually insolvent. So they're carrying a negative balance. They have some sort of debt again and against the HOA something's going on in their financial stability is in question. So that is what the money is supposed to be going to. And as well as management of that HOA collecting the assessment funds, paying for an inspector to go on and stacks for fines and violations and those kinds of things, that's where the budget should be going. And like I said, they should have a healthy capital reserve accounts to complete any upgrades that are needed to that age away.   Michael: Okay. And so you bring up a great point about upgrades. Would upgrades be a reason for an HOA fee increasing from year to year?   Tom: Yeah. Do they change? Yeah. I'd be interested to hear your feedback.   Katrina: They do. And you know, 2020 has been interesting for several different reasons. But one thing we're seeing from the actual AEs is a lot of special assessments that are hitting people's accounts. And I have to say, this is the first year I've seen where so many are being instituted and put into place. And so there's actually two levels to that where they don't even have to have a board meeting to vote in a special assessment, depending on what the cap is of that, that amount. So that it could literally just show up on your doorstep one day that you have a $20,000 assessment do so generally speaking in a normal year, we'll see about anywhere from a three to 5% increase of assessments year over year. So several years ago when we started the company in 2017, we've actually seen quite a bit of increases over the last three years.  And I think that's HOA is trying to make up for some of the depositions and things that they have in their capital reserve accounts. So what we're normally would see would be a three to 5% increase, but since 2017, we've seen average across the country of assessment dues go from three 30 to 440. So it's quite a good jump, healthy jump over the last few years, but know normal would be three to 5% where, you know, just cost of things have gone up. So cost of their power bills for the common areas. And those kinds of things have gotten a little bit more expensive. So, you know, on average, I would say anywhere from a $5 increase to about $25 would be pretty normal. Anything above that, then I'm starting to look at the budget and kind of see where that money is going. What's going on.   Michael: And you mentioned special assessment. Can you talk a little bit about that? What that is?   Katrina: So it's more common of course, in the condo world and the townhome world. Uh, but a lot of our SFR investors have condos and town halls and things like that. So that would be to replace a roof on ability repaint the exterior in a standard single family development. It would be to put a new roof on the clubhouse, replaster the pool, those kinds of things, where they should be putting aside a capital reserve fund. But what we've seen is, you know, with the change in the economy in 2008, 2009, I think a lot of hos did, you know, ended up dipping into that reserve fund to keep going and keep solvent. And so now they're kind of trying to make up for that. And so we're just seeing a lot more this year than we have in the past. It could also be to do with the average age. And most of our clients' portfolios are just kind of hitting that Mark where they're starting to need some major items completed.   Michael: Okay. And is there a good ballpark or kind of range or estimate you would anticipate based on size or age of an association or community for how much reserve they should have? The reason I asked the question is I live my primary. Isn't an HOA. I have a condo and there was, I got, there was a study done that showed the financial stability of the association and it showed that they were way under-funded, but they had several hundred thousand in cash in reserve. And so I said, well, that seems like a lot, but I have no idea how much they should be. This, this company thought they were underfunded, but I feel like they're adequately funded. Is there a good ballpark or general rule for that?   Katrina: No, because there's just so many factors that go into place there, you know, have they managed their funds over the last several years? I would say that HOA is probably managing pretty well with a couple of hundred thousand in there. I've literally seen some with nothing in their capital reserve budget. So I think as our housing inventory ages, uh, you know, it is just becoming more and more of an issue, but yeah, I don't think there's a standard number you guys can count on to tell your investors that, you know, set aside this much because you may, you know, have this come up at some point. It really varies wildly.   Tom: If you're buying properties within an HOA, is there a way for you to get on the HOA, like a seat or, you know, if you get enough properties or I don't know, I'd be curious to hear your experience. If you can't beat them join, that's not the right way to say it. If yoou can't beat em, join em, but like basically getting on the inside, I would imagine like having multiple customers, like it's probably pretty big sway potentially within certain hos.   Katrina: Yes, definitely. Especially with institutional investors, you could potentially own 30% or more of a community. So some have instituted in their CCNRs where even if you own several properties, you're still only get one vote, um, board items, but for the most part, yes, it definitely can help sway those voting items. I actually, one of the questions you guys had further down here was have I been on a board and, or joined a board of the company that I worked with previously? And yes, I was on a board in North Carolina and attended several board meetings. What we had done was we were doing a build to rent a pilot projects at the time. And so we were going in and doing infill in a community that was already established a really nice HOA. We did the same thing in Georgia as well. And we actually attended several of the board meetings just to say, this is who we are, what we're about.  These are our goals as a company and what our know kind of core values as a company are. We're not just a nameless faceless corporation where, you know, people that really care about your community. And so it actually really, really helped. It was very, you know, contentious at first, they weren't really excited about us being there, but we were able to really turn that around and then, you know, create a really good relationship with that HOA in the longterm. So there is definitely benefits if they can get some notes, your company and the people at your company, you know, they don't sign you or, you know, put violations on unless you've broken the rules. But I feel that it goes a long ways to kind of alleviate how often they're going to, you know, hit you with those kinds of things, if they know who you are. And, and then instead of doing a formal final email you directly before they even document that, so you can go in and get it taken care of and never even hit your account. So that was a lot of fun, but it had some pretty tremendous impact. And then we've been a member of a few different boards throughout the country and, you know, same kind of thing where you identify an HOA that seems to be a, maybe elevated in their feelings about your company and whatnot. And you want to, you know, stay in that community and not sell out of it and continue to lease your properties there. I think it's always a great idea to participate in board meetings and discussions with the HOA, because again, remember their biggest issue and concern was that they would lose the sense of community than an HOA brains because it's, you know, it's a corporation coming in and investing in here. So if you can kind of guide them to a different philosophy on that, it has a pretty tremendous impact. Yeah.   Michael: That makes a lot of sense. Makes a lot of sense. Katrina, can you talk to us a little bit about the value that you've seen in your experience from a rental perspective and then maybe from a sale perspective as well that a well run HOA can bring to an investor? Of course the poorly run ones might harm the value, but as far as rentability and resell value for an HOA property, how have you seen that impact things?   Katrina: It's definitely positive on both ends of it, right? Because you've got the tenant who now has access to a pool and other things that, you know, if they were to purchase a home, they maybe wouldn't have access to those same things. So by renting, they have that added benefit. And on the South side, you know, I haven't seen data on exact numbers of, you know, increases the value by say $5,000 because of course, then you're paying dues and stuff in there. And I haven't seen any data pull to see how it impacts the sale, but, you know, I definitely know, well run H ways you'll see them move a lot faster. We'll sell that home much faster. People are clamoring to get into that community and be a part of it. So, you know, especially like those really fun ones in Florida, you know, they almost have a wait list of people trying to purchase homes in there cause they want to be there.   Michael: The water park in the backyard makes sense.   Katrina: Yeah. I mean, how great is that? So, you know, it definitely impacts leasing, you know, several years ago, stock saw statistics that it definitely on average knocks several days off of the lease up timeframe. So it does seem to help.   Michael: Interesting. Okay, great.   Tom: Awesome. My last question I have right now, and this is, I guess, sort of an aggregation, probably of some of the topics that we've talked about, but just at a high level, if you're talking to a newish investor, who's thinking about buying a property, that's in an NHOA, what advice would you give them on how to go about evaluating and owning a property in an HOA?   Katrina: I think they should definitely, and most people don't do this. I think one thing they should look at is is it, if this HOA is financially solvent and how is it being run because you're right. If that HOA is not being run well, it will certainly have an impact on your resident experience in that home. The very quickly start to feel like, you know, they're being picked on and you know, that's not the resident experience that any of us want. So, you know, as an investor looking at an HOA, I would definitely take a look at that. What does this HOA look like? Are they keeping up with things, are the common elements and go to order in good shape? Are they easily accessible? You know, is it kind of making sense? What if they're charging $300 a year? Can I see where that money is going essentially? So I think visually kind of inspecting the community would be really helpful. And, you know, in evaluating that decision to lease there or not,   Tom: How would one get the financials related to an HOA?   Katrina: So in when they're purchasing home, they should be asking for an estoppel. And in that estoppel gives you your statements, your CC&Rs, and ours, all of your documents that you would need. And I think also, like I said, I've spoken about tenant education before, but it's so critical again to the whole kind of overall experience and whether or not you're going to keep that tenant in that home longterm. And of course that's a goal for most SFRs is really going to keep them in the house, you know, two, three, five years. And so, you know, by obtaining that estoppel, now that becomes challenging when you're purchasing via auction or other avenues. But if you're purchasing through MLS and through I'm sure groups like yours, where you can have some of that documentation in place, then I would encourage everybody to go in and take a look at that because it definitely will have an impact to kind of the longterm viability of that investment.   Tom: Great communication. Well, thank you so much for coming on. This has been super interesting, you know, hos there's so much value in having that kind of preset neighborhood look and feel that is desirable and a good standardization. And I love the feedback about getting to know the HOA and partnering with them on your team has been super helpful. And I want to thank you for coming on.   Katrina: Yes, I've really enjoyed it. Thank you guys.   Tom: Awesome.   Michael: All right, thanks. Have a great one.   Tom: Thank you to Katrina Phillips for today's episode, super knowledgeable. It got a lot out of that. If you liked today's episode, please subscribe to us on your podcast. Send us a note. My email is tom@roofstock.com. I love to talk investing. I love to talk podcast content. I love to talk investing education hit me up. This episode was brought to you by Roofstock Academy. Roofstock Academy is a holistic program with one on one, coaching group coaching, over 50 hours of on-demand lectures covering getting started to scaling up. A special bonus Roofstock Academy is now giving $2,500 towards Roofstock marketplace credits. That's right. You can pay $1,250 for $2,500 of marketplace credits. All right. Happy investing.   Theme song

In this episode, Micheal, Tom and Emil take on some common worries that friends and family have when you tell them that you are considering taking up remote real estate investing and provide solid arguments for reasoned responses.  --- Transcript   Michael: Hey, everyone. Welcome to another episode of their motor real estate investor. I'm Michael album, and today as usual, I'm joined by Tom Schneider and Emil Shour. In today's episode, we're going to be talking about kind of an interesting topic. Do those around you, not support your remote real estate investing dreams. We're going to be giving everyone today some tips, tricks, and fodder about how to speak intelligently about remote real estate investing. So let's jump into it.   Theme Song   Michael: Alright guys, before we get into this episode, I just wanted to check in with you all, how are you guys doing? There's some new quarantine issues that just came out from the governor and wanted to check in how you guys are doing.   Emil: Welp. Can't go surfing this weekend because LA beaches are locked down.   Michael: Oh no!   Emil: So that's unfortunate, but I got out there this morning in anticipation of not being able to,   Michael: How was it ?   Emil: It was crowded a little bit slow, but it was fun. You know? It's good. Anytime you start the day out on the water.   Michael: Yeah, absolutely.   Tom: Is a bad day on the surf. Better than a good day, not on the surf guys.   Michael: Yes!   Emil: Of course. Michael would say yes, because he's the eternal optimist, I would say. Yes. There's times. I get really frustrated. Sometimes I get out of the water and I'm like, damn it. And I'm just like huffing and puffing on my way to my car and just like, but yes, in hindsight, it's always like, at least I got out on the water and did something fun   Michael: Without being too cliche. I think every time I get into the water, I'm able to think about stuff and I go in with problems and come up with solutions. Even if it's not a great day, it's way more fun. If it is a great day, given the choice between the two, I would absolutely choose better day, but I don't think I've ever had a bad day out in the water   Emil: Hashtag no bad days.   Michael: That's right.   Tom: What I've been doing lately is our community pool… I live in this neighborhood that used to be part of an HOA and there are still some of the HOA amenities, but now it's just like people have the option to join. And I joined cause it's like a really cool feature, but they have really, they need a monitor at the pool just to make sure that people are not bringing in guests and they limit the number of people and a bunch of other County related restrictions. But anyways, so I've been doing that and I've been working from down there. There's really good wifi. I'm out in the sunshine. I've been having some of my meetings with my background, with Emil, Michael and Pierre, where there's like, you know, a pool in the background and every, you know, couple of hours instead of going on a walk, I'll do a Cannonball and a that's the latest little update. And it's been a really, I don't know, I think there's something about being outside and being creative and that feeds into that. So that's been my, my new thing work from pool.   Michael: I'm curious to know what the HOA, you know, if they just everyone mutinied like, no more HOA!   Tom: Right. I think it fell apart. I think in like the seventies or eighties, I gotta, I gotta get to the bottom of it, but uh, yeah, really just random, big pool. Um, I don't know. Yeah. It's cool.   Michael: Killer. That's awesome.   Emil: How about you, Michael? What's new in your world?   Michael: Um, not a whole lot. I've been staying up quarantining at the in-laws and just kind of hanging out in here. It's been hot as ever like the surface of the sun. They lived just outside Sacramento, so it gets really, really hot up here, but we've been playing a lot of tennis, which has been really nice, cause there's nobody on the tennis courts. Cause it's so hot. And I think people drive by and like what a bunch of schmucks, like who's playing tennis, it's a hundred degrees outside. So it's, it's been a lot of fun to just get out and sweat and be outside.   Emil: Nice man.   Tom: Pierre with so many hobbies. I'd love to hear. I think you might mentioned getting in some woodworking again.   Pierre: Yeah. Yeah. I moved into a new place in Alameda and needed some furniture to fit my record collection in this little nook that we have. So I built like a little mid century modern table with some cubbies, for my records and a rack to hang my guitars.   Tom: That's a fantastic quarantine hobby and practical!   Emil: I give up, Pierre's just the coolest out of all of us. Let's just,   Michael: Oh, it's not even, yeah, it's not even close.   Pierre: Now. I got the edge though. I want to build all my furniture. We were looking at buying some online but now it's not seeming as attractive.   Michael: You can build a better.   Tom: I love it.   Emil: Awesome. And for anyone who's new to the show, wondering who that voice was. That is our producer Pierre.     Michael: All right, guys. So I want to break down some of the very common aversions to remote real estate investing and then talk through some of the counterpoints to each of those. I think any real estate investor at some point in their investing career has likely come up against some aversion or caught some flack. So I want to talk about the first one that I think might be one of the most common ones. And that is how could I possibly ever invest in real estate remotely? I don't know anybody in inter X market here. Tom, do you want to take a shot at this one? And then, you know how you would respond to someone who's throwing this at you?   Tom: Yeah, totally. And what a relevant first topic for the remote real estate investor. So I think a common misconception about real estate investing is that it, you are a lone wolf in and out doing on your own. And that is so far from the truth, especially, uh, as a remote investor. So what I would say for this is you should invest as a lot of time in building your team just because you are not in the region, you're specifically your local property manager. That's really going to be a key key point of being able to do this remotely. So a way to, you know, go about that is have a very thorough vetting process of identifying, sourcing and vetting your local property manager. And one of the great things that Roofstock does is when we open a market, what we'll do is we'll find from word of mouth and looking it up online, the top 20 local property managers. And from there we'll do phone interviews. And from there, we'll cut more down to where we have about five of them. And then we'll go into the office and visit them, get their standard operating procedures, get their, a copy of their lease that they use, get all of these different and then say, okay, yup. These are good guys that we would recommend. Now me as an investor, if there's a company that's doing that, that's great. That gives me a head start, but I will still take the time to vet them myself. One of the aspects we have within Roofstock Academy is some pretty thorough interview templates for talking to property managers and identifying good ones. But to combat that is you have a really thorough process of building your team local there on the ground. So, you know, once you have identified that property manager that is going to be your remote eyes and ears is really not that different than doing any kind of local investing. Once you have that trusting partner   Michael: And Tom breaking down that big rock into an even smaller bite sized rock, how do you go about finding these people? If you're not investing through Roofstock and they are not doing it for you, what's the actionable step that people can go take to go meet or start talking to these folks.   Tom: I always put an extra points on referral from people that I trust and know. So I'd say if you can get referrals that way from either lenders or other investors, you know, that's a great place to start, but you should expect what you inspect. So you need to go in and expect it in, inspect it to now that is a mouthful.   Michael: That's a tough one to say.   Tom: Yeah, yeah. We use that saying a bunch of our, the last company that I worked at, but the gist is if you don't do the work to verify, you should expect that it's not going to be that awesome. So you need to put in a little bit of the work of talking to these partners. So I digress a little, I guess let's see. I'm going back to your question. What was your question?   Michael: It was how can someone go find these people?   Tom: How can they find people? So, okay. References number one, number two, don't shy away from looking on the internet of just searching the city of who are the major property managers. And you know, this, isn't making the decision on who you're picking. This is just building that initial list to widdle down with conversations on the phone and potentially in house visits to make sure that it's all buttoned up and such. But I'd say again, your greatest resource would be getting referrals. Bigger pockets, I think on their forums have some references of some potential local property managers, but I would definitely expect what you inspect. So make a point of doing that. Like work.   Emil: One of the thing, I want to point out with this one, cause I remember getting this one a lot. When I first started investing, you know, people would be like, you're going to invest where across the country, like that's insane. What if something happens to the property? What if it gets vandalized? What if this and that? And the thing is, is those things happen, whether you're local or you're investing remotely, right? It's not like if you live 15 minutes away from the property, things aren't going to happen. Things are still going to come up no matter where you invest again, it's just making sure you have a partner. And that's why we keep talking about this property manager. Who's invested, who cares and who is a good member of your team. That's one of the big things we're going to be talking about is, you know, you hear a lot of real estate investors say you have to build a team. This is a team thing, especially if you're investing remotely. So that's the big thing is things will still happen. It's just a matter of getting the right partners to help you handle all these things.   Michael: You guys nailed it. I have nothing to add. The one thing I would add is that it really forces you, which I see it as a pro. Some people might see it as a con, but it forces you to get really good at time management. Because then they'll just like you said, stuff's going to happen. Whether it's next door or whether it's across the country. So if it's across the country, you've got to rely on people to take care of that. You've got to have set the systems up and placed on, like you were saying, to be able to have that dealt with without you needing to become involved. So if it's next door, you're going to be tempted to go fix it yourself or go deal with it yourself. But if it's across country, you physically can't. So being really good at time management and task delegation is I see it as a big pro.   Tom: I guess one last thing I'll say is, you know, ideally the home that you own and you're renting out is close to you, but there are so many benefits to investing remotely. Like you have access to so many more properties, so many different types of returns, such different like economies, like that makes it a little bit of barrier to entry is doing that extra homework of finding that great partner. So for me, being able to access these cash, flowing properties all over the US that extra work of finding the good property manager and then vetting them and building that relationship is worth it.   Michael: Yeah. And to that point, I mean, what's the alternative here, not investing or not investing remotely. And if you're in a really expensive market, you might not ever be able to break through. So if it's invest remotely and learn a bunch of stuff or not, I'd say you can't afford to not learn how to do some of this stuff.   Tom: Word.   Michael: Okay. So let's move on to the next one. Uh, so many times I hear people say this, I know someone who tried to investing in real estate and they would take these midnight calls, fixed toilets. I don't want to do that. Why would you ever want to do that? Emil, you wanna run with this one?   Emil: Yes. So this is another common one, right? So people say, okay, I get why you want to invest remotely, but are you going to handle fixes? What if someone calls you? And again, this goes back to what we were just talking about. It's this is why you hire third party, property manager, again, building the team, right? I would say the property manager is one of the most important pieces of your team. And the thing here is I don't know how to fix most problems, right? I would call a handyman or whatever anyway. Right? So the property manager is just, they're just your barrier. They're taking in those calls and they're finding a local specialist. Again, you're not going to be good at everything in your business. What you want to do is hire the professionals who are in the property. Management is the best that operating your property.  I would probably do a much worse job and I'd spend way more time than a property manager who does this for a living. So the rebuttal to that question is while I'm going to hire a third party property manager, who's an expert in the area. Who's going to manage it for me. And in return, they take a certain percentage of my rent each month. The other thing is the important thing here is this frees up a lot of your time, right? If you're constantly dealing with your operational stuff, you're not going to be thinking about how can I grow this? How can I scale it? A lot of us who are doing this, we have full time jobs, right? Like instead of fixing things on the weekend, I could be thinking about how can I start a side gig, earn more money or whatever. So I can go buy more properties, which I would argue is more important than handling the day to day stuff.   Michael: It's so interesting. I think people in the day to day world in life can really wrap their head around hiring professionals to do things, right. Nobody says, I'm not going to go buy a car because I don't know how to fix it. No, we all take it to the mechanic. I think it's the same thing with real estate and with investing where people are. So whatever reason can't get their head around that you might not have to do that, that kind of stuff. There are professionals that will take care of it for you.   Tom: Right. It's such a great point. I, I love that, your, uh, isms, Michael isms. I think we'll say, I think in talking to a lot of people who are interested in investing in real estate locally, they're like, yeah, then I can go and I can run out and paint the house when, or do these things that happened. It's like, no, you don't have to do that. And you know, we were talking about these costs that you incur with either repairs or maintenance or paying your property manager, but those are good costs to pay. And also at the end of the day, it's going to help you on your tax basis. It, you know, there's just so many tailwinds in doing this.   Emil: One last thing I want to add here is you can always later down the road, maybe you're ready to retire, right? Maybe you have X amount of properties. You have enough cashflow coming in. You want to retire. Maybe at that point, you feel confident enough where you do want to self manage. If you go back to episode five that we did with Chris Bennett, he talks about how he self his properties from thousands of miles away. I personally probably won't get to that point. I'd rather let somebody else deal with it. But it's always one of those things where I think you can even just observe your property manager for years, learn how they kind of run everything. And then if you want to down the road, you can switch back or switch to self managing. If that's interesting to you.   Michael: Funny, I think the longer I invest, the less I want new self-manage. I realize how much goes into like yeah, no way.   Emil: Yeah, same. I had somebody who I was talking about. Who's looking to buy a property on Roofstock and they were asking me the same thing. It's like, should I self man? He's like, I'm actually thinking about self managing first, just to like, get an idea of how all these things work and then handing it over a property manager. And I was like, if anything, I would do the complete reverse for all the reasons I just mentioned. Like, dude, you're brand new. Don't don't do it. It's going to be a nightmare. And you're never going to want to invest in another property again. Promise   Tom: That's the Emil Shour guarantee.   Michael: Awesome. Okay. So the next one I want to touch on is something I'm sure we've all heard a lot about, and it's that real estate is such a risky investment. Look at what happened in 2008. And so I'll take this one. If you guys don't mind, you know, my response is you're spot on don't invest. No, just kidding. I would say, you know, 2008 was the direct result of poor lending practices and those have definitely since changed. And so I don't anticipate seeing a financial disaster as a direct result of poor lending practices again. Don't misinterpret that as me having a crystal ball, that's just my personal opinion and be very may well see a financial disaster from other, but the poor lending practices seems to have gotten cinched up pretty tight. So I would actually argue that real estate is often a safer investment than the stock or the bond market.  And I think so often people say, okay, real estate is risky, but these other things aren't, there is also people that say real estate is risky, put your money in the bank. And to that, there's all kinds of counter arguments and counterpoints that are all based in fact about inflation and how you actually lose money. If it's just sitting in the bank, if you're not earning at least the inflation return, but so in looking at growth, the comparison to simply stocks, bonds, and real estate. So with real estate, there's just such a higher degree of control. The tax benefits and potential returns are typically going to be better than your average year in the stock market. I think it's pretty well accepted that stock market returns average between six to 8% in any given year real estate, you can do significantly better with that from a pure cash on cash return perspective that doesn't even account for the tax benefits associated with it, as well as the appreciation and loan pay-down equity that you're essentially buying into your property. So I personally I'm drinking the Koolaid. I think there are tons and tons and tons of facts and figures that you can throw at someone that's saying, Oh, it's such a risky investment. My guess is that they probably haven't invested in real estate. And if they have, they aren't looking to do the same type of thing you're doing remote investing with a property manager. So I just want to make sure that everyone's comparing apples to apples. Whenever they're hit with something like this, you really want to understand what's being talked about.   Tom: That's great and a good overview of like all the benefits of why, at least in our opinion, like the benefits outweigh the rewards. And what I love about drinking the Koolaid is there's so many different flavors of the Koolaid. So I kind of switch off on which one I'm most excited about. So the tax advantages is great. The immediate cashflow is great. The appreciation is incredible, but the Koolaid I've been sipping a little bit more of is the loan pay-down aspect. And it's just crazy. You can borrow like a hundred thousand dollars and someone else will pay it off for you. Like, I don't know, like wording it that way is really kind of mind boggling of how incredible investing is. So even if you're not cash flowing, say your cashflow is zero, but you still have a loan on the property. And you're not paying that loan. The person who was renting the property has paint alone. It's like obscene right property after you get a free property. So anyways, just kind of in your, going through your ran, I was just thinking of what is currently spinning through my mind a little bit heavier on like, wow, it's unbelievable. How much of an opportunity is. So anyways,   Michael: I thought you were gonna say that you're really excited about sour green, Apple Kool-Aid flavor.   Tom: That might be the loan pay-down is the sour green Apple.   Emil: Oh man. Kool-Aid when you're a kid and   Michael: The best, the best. How do you guys feel about Hawaiian punch?   Tom: I think American tastes have gotten a little bit less sweeter. At least I could rant on this for a little bit, but I'll finish it. There's been a shift in American culture kind of going to more subtle. Like if you look at like Hintwater LaCroix, if you compare like the drinks that are consumed today, versus the drinks that were consumed like 10 years ago, it's like hummingbird water back then. So I think I have a feeling if you had some Hawaiian punch, like you would be like, what the heck is, this is this like, meant for like a hive of, of hummingbirds, like anyways,   Michael: And it's that bright red too!   Tom: But the great thing about Koolaid is you don't have to put all the powder in. You can make it culturally adjustable by just putting a little bit of it in and boom, welcome to 2020, just 10% of it and have it. All right, go ahead.   Emil: I don't know how I can follow that up with something serious, but just to finish this section, I remember we had this blog post on the Roofstock blog talking about how did single family rental returns compared to stocks and bonds. And the Roofstock team did a little study. It was from 1992 to 2017. So a 25 year period. And if we found that single family rental returns were nearly identical to stock returns and the outperformed bonds with far less volatility. So that was one other thing I wanted to highlight here as well. Plus all the other benefits, like we talk about like tax advantages and all that, which I don't think was factored into this study.   Tom: I'm almost sure it wasn't.   Michael: Yeah, that makes sense. Because everyone's going to have a different tax basis.   Emil: Yeah. This was just looking at returns.   Michael: Okay, cool. So one of the last ones I want to touch on which we can all kind of tag team, but I kind of want to give it to Tom to give him a runway to rant. But so many people I've heard say owning real estate makes you a greedy landlord getting rich off the backs of other people. Tom, what would you say to all those people?   Tom: I think that people need safe housing, people need housing, and this is just kind of part of the wheel of providing that. So like I think above all, and we've talked about this before an earlier episode, like at the end of the day, it's about like habitable safe places for people to live. And I think as an owner, that's like a key part of the responsibility, so sure. Their incomes earned. It's like a little business that you own with every single one of the houses. But at the end of the day, like at this, we're talking about people's where they live and being able to provide that is valuable.   Emil: I think anyone who kind of believes this, I think you should a hundred percent become an owner because then you'll have a better idea of both sides of the coin. Right. You'll have owned, you'll have rented, I've rented, I've owned. I think having been in that spot right where you're a renter and you know, you've dealt with a landlord. I think it makes you more empathetic to your tenants. Like I want to provide a safe habitable unit, like Tom mentioned for those reasons. Like, if you're, if you're a good person, you care about other people, it's not like you're going to become an owner and all of a sudden just be like terrible person not providing for them. So I actually just, if you believe that, I think you should become an owner and just have experienced on both sides personally.   Pierre: As a renter, I have to say that it's way better to have a cool landlord.   Michael: Yeah. It's way better renting experience to have a cool landlord. Someone that's a real person as opposed to just a machine.   Tom: Yeah. And I don't, it has to be so black and white at that. Like you're only trying to maximize your return at every single look. I think there's a lot of places where that makes sense, but there's this humanity aspect. So one of my tenants, you know, started just recently had some issues around payment on like an employment and stuff. And you know, I talked to the, reached out to the property manager and said, Hey, you know, is this, is this something, you know, that has to do with the virus or they cause I'm very open to helping them out. Like if we need to make some adjustments or some concessions, you know, as an owner in real estate, you don't have to put on the monopoly outfit and just, you know, drill people into the ground, like, like half a conscious, like this is a good business to build wealth, but it's multidimensional, right? Because you're owning a place where somebody's living at. I think that's a really important aspect to have some humanity as an investor. So it's not, you have to go down this one path, right. You can do business consciously.   Michael: Yeah. And to anybody out there that thinks this or anybody out there that you know, is, is catching this type of comment from other people, I'd say, look, you need to understand what actually goes into real estate investing and real estate investors pay tons of money every single year to local school districts in the form of property taxes. So I'm not sure how that makes them greedy, but I would also follow that up with asking them how much money they contribute every year to their local school districts and see what they say. So there's so much money that gets poured into the local economy via real estate investors. And that comes in the form of real estate taxes, property management fees, paying local vendors for goods and services. So, so many investors spend a ton of money on these properties and local neighborhoods that actually are making them more attractive and welcoming, which can often lead to safer communities. So it's so easy for someone to just see one side of the coin and say, Oh, you you're collecting rents. You're making money off this person. Well, yeah, but also there's the other side where I'm contributing to society, paying taxes and making the schools better. So if you want me to stop doing that, that's a different conversation, but you really have to understand both sides of that coin to have an intelligible conversation about it.   Emil: Bravo, sir, drop the mic, please.   Michael: Mic drop it and walk away from that person. And just kind of in this same vein, I would also encourage anyone who comes up against any kind of resistance to really try to have a discussion with that other person about why they feel the way that they do. And try to understand why what they're talking about may or may not be applicable to your personal situation. Because I think real estate investing is this huge, huge topic. On the podcast, we talk about the remote real estate investing, which is one kind of niche of that, but there's so many other different topics and variances on real estate investing. So a lot of people here real estate investments like, ah, they're evil, they're the worst people in the world. Well, okay. Yeah. There might be some that are evil. It might be some of the worst people in the world, but you don't know me necessarily. And so let's try to understand what you're talking about and what I'm talking about. Cause so often they're not all the same thing.   Emil: I like that well said.   Michael: So just curious. I mean, have you guys ever run into any type of these comments? Have you gotten any flack for, you know, doing something that's maybe perceived as different from what your peers or others were doing? Emil: Yeah, definitely. I mean, I've mentioned on other episodes. My dad is a real estate investor here locally in Los Angeles and he thinks, you know, I'm kind of crazy. It's still, uh, when I was first starting, especially like what you're gonna buy property, where again, and it's common for people to feel that way because traditionally, everyone felt like, you know, my dad's whole thing is like, if I can't see it, touch it, feel it, there is no way. And that's fine. I think for some people, it just doesn't work mentally as just a blocker. But like Michael said, I think it's about being open to different things. And again, if the option is, do nothing or invest somewhere else to me, I'm not going to let that stop me personally.   Tom: Yeah. I think so many people have preconceived notion of what it means to be a real estate investors. And they have this idea of them running out with a hammer and taking the call and it's like, no, it's different than that. It's way more passive. It is way more team-driven, which has kind of been a theme of this episode. So throw away or assumptions on what it looks like and, and come to Roofstock Academy. No, but throw away your assumptions on what it looks like and look at some of these different strategies that we're talking about. If you're looking to do it in a more passive way and not throwing so much of your time of trying to make it work. The other comment that I've heard from some friends is, and this goes again, I think the greedy landlord piece is, you know, someone teasing, I was talking about real estate investment, like, Oh yeah. Always money and being a slum-lord. I'm like, you know, get outta here. Like I think, as I said, like there's a wellbeing aspect and like having these safe habitable places and working with your property manager to make sure that's part of your brand at the properties that you have, you know, it's, it's not about cutting corners and like maximizing every dollar. There's so much more to that.   Michael: Yeah. I totally agree.   Tom: And several of my friends have now invested, so I, uh, won the day. So go ahead.   Emil: And that was the point I was just about to make is I think when you network with other remote real estate investors and you realize there is an ecosystem of us doing it, it makes you feel a lot more confident. So if you don't know anyone else who's doing it, I highly recommend getting in touch with somebody network with them, talk, join groups, join, whatever. Just say, like build that network. I think it's, it's invaluable to have people around you who are doing things similar to you.   Michael: Yeah, absolutely. You know, when I first started investing, like you both, I caught so much of that flak of you're going where to invest, you know, why, what, that's stupid, you're there. You're crazy. And I'm like, yeah, well it makes sense to me. So, and now most of those friends I haven't since invested to, Oh, they see what's going on here. But yeah, so much of it too was I felt like this lone wolf, I didn't know there was a community out there. I didn't know the other people doing this. I just heard, yeah. People invest in real estate, but I didn't happen to know very many of them to ask them, you know, am I crazy? Is this insane? But now I realize no I'm laughing all the way to the bank. All right guys, any final thoughts on this stuff?   Pierre: I have a question in this vein of remote versus local investing. When would it make more investment sense to invest in your local market as opposed to remotely, if you live in an expensive area?   Michael: Super good question. I'll let you guys take it first.   Tom: I'll take the first stab at it. So excellent question Pierre of, when does it make sense to invest locally versus is remote. And I think it all has to start at what is your investment thesis? Like? What is your end game map? If I live in an area where I don't necessarily need the cashflow right now, and I'm pretty bullish on appreciation, I live in Northern California where properties are a little more expensive. Maybe it does make sense to invest in a property out here locally. If I'm looking for a property where there's a little bit more of a blend of appreciation and a bit more immediate cashflow, then maybe it would make sense to invest remotely. And to kind of get us to rephrase a little bit is, you know, what kind of returns are you looking for? Like if I had to make this analogous and that's right to like the stock market, like, am I investing in a growth company or am I investing in a new startup, but am I setting a value investing? Like what kind of strategy? And I think that will answer the question on where you're doing your investing at.   Emil: The only other thing I would add there is I think comes down to your comfort level. If you just can't for whatever reason, get yourself to invest remotely. I don't think you should just not invest. I think if you can invest locally, go for it, right. If you just can't get over the remote factor and you know, like you could be making better returns elsewhere. The thing is, is there's people investing locally doing insanely well and there's people investing remotely doing insanely well, I don't think this is a, you have to go local. You have to go remote. I think it's just by your comfort level, how much money you have to invest, you know, just your strategy and that your thesis, like Tom mentioned   Tom: Price point, great point. And also the volume of homes available. I mean, you're limited just in your own backyard of how many homes are for sale. Go ahead, Michael. I see you.   Michael: Yeah. I see you too buddy.   Tom: The light in me sees the light in you!   Pierre: Namaste!   Tom: Namaste   Michael: You know, from avatar, we need to hook up our ponytails.   Tom: Yeah. I'm touching the microphone.   Michael: So the last, I think those are both really great points. The last thing I want to add too it, is what the goal is and what are you trying to accomplish? But one thing I don't think that it has mentioned is the idea of house hacking, which is kind of this concept of you buy a house bigger than you need or a place bigger than you need and you live in it and rent out the other room. So you're kind of getting the best of both worlds and a kind of hybrid approach with, I have a place to live now and I'm making some rental income alongside with that. And so if you do that well enough, you could absolutely see similar returns to a traditional investment property at distance, but get the benefit of living in a house locally. And so what I think is really important to look at as the true opportunity cost and true total cost, because if you're investing somewhere else and continuing to rent while there's a cost associated with that, versus if you buy a house hack locally and are living in it, well, there's a different cost associated with that, but you're not paying rent anymore. So look at the whole picture. And I think just like Tom mentioned, you know, look define what your goal is. So I think I ha how's hacking is a really, really great way to get started in real estate investing and kind of get two birds with one stone and then just like Emil said, what the price point is and what your, you know, you're only going to qualify for X amount of dollars in a loan if you're going that route. And so that's going to be a limiting factor as well.   Pierre: What about buying from a family member would buying from a parent, make it more interesting in the way of tax benefits or anything like that?   Tom: I mean, a huge way to get ahead in real estate is any kind of discount to valuation. So like if there's any kind of sweetheart deal with that, I mean, you don't want to take advantage of your parents, but like if they're like open to giving you a little bit of a discount, like, man, that could be an immediate, huge head start because you already have like a little bit of equity in the house where some of the tools that we talked about pulling out equity, like cash out refi or HELOCS or all of that stuff like that can give you an advantage there in just the question of like, let's say you're paying fair market value. It really depends on if that house fits your investment thesis. So looking at the type of returns that you would get, then if it fits that then great. That makes sense. I'd say just kind of like specific to your question around family members. Like if you're able to get a little bit of, maybe it's not sweat equity, it's love equity. That's a huge step up.   Michael: One other thing too, that I've seen here that works really well. Especially if the house is owned free and clear is your family can finance it for you basically be the bank and you pay them a monthly payment as opposed to getting a mortgage. You can just get, you know, you guys decide what the terms are amongst yourselves. And it's so much easier. The one thing that I definitely would encourage people to look out for and I harp on this literally every day in the Academy is property taxes and especially if it's in California, because I asked my attorney once I was like, what if I just sell this house to my wife for a dollar? Because my property tax base is X, what my property tax has dropped to a dollar. And she's like, yeah, no, that's not how it works. If it's, if it's priced way under market, they're going to assess it at the fair market value and tax you on the fair market value. So even if you're getting a discount on the purchase price, that's great. You just want to be aware of what the taxes are going to look like after the fact. And especially with a lot of these family properties, they've been in the family for so long, they were purchased at such a low tax rate. So being aware of the tax rate and what that's going to jump to is really important for sure. It's going to move in California, but you just want to be aware of it. If you're in another state doing this type of deal, just be, you know, find out what that tax rate looks like. But great questions, man.   Tom: I got one more for this. So in the theme of this episode of your friends being able to speak intelligently, when you're, when people try to talk you out of investing in real estate, why aren't you just buying somebody else's property? Isn't there like a reason they're selling it? Why, why, why, why   Michael: Is it trash?   Tom: Isn't it trash if somebody's selling it, it must be a bad deal or something wrong with it. Michael, would you like to lead this one?   Michael: Yeah, it's a super great point and a really great question. I think I hear all the time in the Academy. I mean, it's just goes back to one. Man's trash is another man's treasure, but also you're probably not buying trash. I mean, people sell for any number of reasons. So we'd never know a motivation unless we ask. And so often sellers are selling out of desperation, whether that's, you know, divorce or they need cash for something. So it could be a really great property, could be really great deal. They're just selling it because they need the cash. They could also be selling because they got a nonperforming assets to be performing. And now it's really great. And so we talk about that a lot is adding value. You buy a crummy property, you fix it up. And now it's a really nice property. I mean, that's what turnkey is. Someone is selling a perfectly functioning and performing asset. And so giving people an opportunity to buy it means that they get to make some profit in the middle. So I definitely definitely disagree with that wholeheartedly. I think that people need to understand that there are so many reasons why someone could be selling a property.   Emil: No, the only other one I would add is what we call a tired landlord. So someone who just been doing this for 30, 40 years, they're done right. They've maybe they've been managing it this whole time by themselves. And they're like, I'm just, I've made my money. My market has appreciated. I'm going to do well on the sell. I just want to get out of the business. So they're tired and they just want to move on. That's another one.   Michael: I love how you said that. They're just, they're just exhausted.   Emil: Just, just tired man. I could,   Pierre: Did you have your dad in mind when you're commenting on this?   Emil: My dad is such a, such a tired landlord. He's an exhausted landlord. He is. He is just like, pardon me. Thinks he loves complaining about being a landlord though. It's just like in him that he likes to compete. It gives him a discussion topic.   Tom: Yeah. My comments would be on this is concerns around, you know, why is the sellers have a process and the way that you evaluate the homes that is consistent. So once the property goes through the ringer where you're looking at, you know, condition value, tenant, if they're, it is occupied, all that stuff, you can really make the assessment. If it's a good or a bad deal. And don't overthink seller motivations, just like Michael said, there's going to be any number of reasons within Roofstock there's all kinds of different types of sellers. There are individuals, there are bigger institutions, there are funds and sometimes the funds just expire or sometimes they move, you know, the geographic concentration, they might move to a different market. So I wouldn't overthink it and just do your homework and follow the right steps and doing your evaluation of the property.   Michael: Okay. So now I've got a question for you guys kind of a fun one. And just so all of our listeners know, I didn't tell a meal pier and Tom, what the question was before we started recording this. So they are totally going to be blindsided by this. And it's a, it's a pretty traditional question. It's one that, you know, I think is asked pretty regularly of people, but I put a little bit of a spin kind of unique twist to it. So the question is you're stranded on a desert Island. There's the very typical question that I want to know the answer to of what two items would you sum into your location to help you escape to survive? But also I want to know where's the most ideal setting for said deserted Island,   Emil: Bali, a surf board, because the waves are going to be amazing deserted Island. I'm just, I don't even know if I'd want to leave. Honestly. I'm not trying to get out of there if I'm just stranded in Bali, no one around amazing waves.   Tom: Do you guys watch naked and afraid?   Michael: Yeah. It's so good.   Tom: What would your survivor score be?   Michael: Oh, I would start it probably a six and end at a 7/8. Oh, underdog performing. Sorry. I interrupted. Go ahead.   Emil: Alright, so I'd want to surf board item two…   Tom: Are we picking locations or picking what we're bringing with us? What's the situation?   Michael: Both! Emil: A laptop that has a never ending battery and access to internet.   Michael: No dude, we're not playing this “imagine if the best invention” game.   Emil: You did, you did not give me any rules, constraints. It's up to my imagination. Creativity.   Michael: All right. That's reasonable. And the first thing I would do is use said computer magical computer to get a ticket for my wife and daughter to come join me at the Island.   Tom: So, if you're going down, you're dragging them with you.   Emil: That's right. Tom, what would you, what would you bring and where would you be?   Tom: I think I'd be on the oldest Island of the Hawaiian islands. I'd be in Kauai just because it's, you know, lots of fish around there. I would bring some Kool-Aid from 2000 just cause I know it's diluted. I could just use a little bit. That's going to last me a very long time to match my 20, 20 taste buds. It would last a very long time and yeah, I think I would somehow finagle my wife and son to come join me too with that magic computer that I would borrow from Emil. So there we go. I got Kool-Aid and magic computer.   Michael: All right, Pierre, where are you stranded and what would you bring?   Pierre: Hmm, maybe somewhere in the Mediterranean, like Malta and I would bring a guitar and a hatchet.   Michael: Nice see. Pierre's the real survivor here.   Tom: Which guitar?   Pierre: I'd bring my acoustic. Probably my Taylor. Yeah, my guitar and a hatchet. Cause I forget what the saying is exactly, but it's with a pocket knife, you can survive, but with a hatchet you can live like a king. a nice I'd built some stuff for sure.   Michael: Nice.   Tom: You're already practicing. You're hurting right now. We go to peers does desert Maltin paradise and he's mid century. Nice couches beds built. Starts a popup shop.   Tom: You're turn Michael.   Michael: I would probably go to be in Bermuda because I hear some crazy stuff happens there. I'd be very curious to see what's going on. My two items would probably be a satellite phone so I could order all kinds of great stuff. And if I say anything other than hatchet, I'm looked like a chump. I think I should also bring a hatchet.   Tom: Your survival skill just went down. Your Pierre's survivors went down because you had advanced tools.   Michael: I could have brought a chop saw.   Tom: Yeah. You just went to a 5.5.   Michael: Oh, it's such a ridiculous show. Naked and Afraid. But it's so interesting to see what people bring I'm waiting for the day with two people bring the same thing. Like they both bring a lighter and like, Oh crap. Like we didn't talk about this beforehand.   Michael: Well, that was our show. Everybody. Thank you so much for listening. We hope you enjoyed it. Don't forget to give us a rating or review wherever it is. You listen to your podcasts, subscribe as well. And we look forward to seeing you on the next one.   Tom: Happy investing.   Emil: Happy investing.  

In this episode, Emil and Tom talk with Leandra Figueroa, the Valuations Manager at Roofstock, about what goes into our valuation reports. --- Transcript:   Emil: Hey everyone. Welcome back to another episode of The Remote Real Estate Investor. My name is Emil Shour, and today I got my co-host Tom Schneider, and we're going to be talking to our valuations manager here at Roofstock. Her name is Leandra Figueroa. We're going to be learning all about what goes into our valuation reports, how Leandra and her team compiled those and what it means for investors. So let's hop in   Emil: Leandra. Thanks for coming on the show. We're excited to have you guided to be here. So like we do before any episode, anytime we have a guest on I go and I scour their LinkedIn, creep on their LinkedIn just to get a background on them. And I noticed that you've been appraising and running valuations for over a decade now, but can you tell our listeners a little bit about yourself and what you do here at Roofstock?   Leandra: So here at Roofstock, I started as a pricing analyst, basically looking at the properties that the sellers are looking to list on Roofstock and looking at the sales comps for that specific property, you know, the same size similar condition, and actually seeing what the property could sell for in our marketplace.   Emil: Nice. And how long have you been at Roofstock   Leandra: Just made three years last month. Thank you.   Tom: 21 years in dog years as a startup,   Leandra: It feels that way.   Emil: So run me through kind of just, you and your team day to day. What are you guys really focusing on?   Leandra: So we have a couple of variations of tasks that come through their valuation tasks. They could be initial pricing tasks. This is where the sellers first engaging with our account managers and kind of just feeling out to see what we feel the price range could be, what they could sell this property for. And then we have another set of tasks where right before a property gets published, you know, the inspection is completed through the certification team, and then we're actually able to give a more accurate opinion of value because we have an inspection report. So that's another step. Those are another bunch of tasks that we do prior to publishing. And then another one that we look at, I guess, similar to the initial pricing is the seller self service. This is where the seller actually requests the valuations themselves and kind of just try to flow through the roof, that process. And so that's another way that we also value the properties that come through.   Tom: That's really interesting. How you talking about this funnel? You're talking about, you know, you do this initial pricing and then you get more information with condition. How big of swings do you see? And I'd love to learn a little bit from an appraiser. Like what is the ways that an appraiser thinks about condition? Because I understand there are categories, right?   Leandra: Correct. Correct. So there's a C1 through C5 and C5 being new construction, never lived in. Though funny enough, some of our sellers, they have a 1960s home and they'll select C1 as the condition.   Tom: But it's beautiful. It's beautiful. Just kidding.   Leandra: What do you mean it's not C1?   Tom: That's literally brand new build, right?   Leandra: Yes. It's absolutely only for new builds and this is in the appraisal world and then C2, maybe more high end rehab renovation. C3 is average, maybe some updates here and there. C4 no updates like normal wear and tear. C5 and C6 is almost like uninhabitable and, and needs major repairs. So yeah,   Tom: How big of a swing do you get in valuation based on condition? You know, if you had to do it like…   Leandra: From our initial pricing?   Tom: Yeah, just kind of a curious question   Leandra: I wouldn't say there's too much of a difference. I think if anything, like I said, some sellers will say, it's the one and then the inspection report comes back and it's more like C3. So we know when sellers say C1, it's just, it's just telling us that they've done some rehab work. And so we kind of try to value it as a C3. And then if it turns out that, you know, after reviewing the inspection report that they did do these high end upgrades, then we're actually going to look for the right comparable and not just stick it at C3. We're going to look for the C2 comps. So it's rare that there's a large variance, I would say maybe five to 7% of the time. It's completely out of range from where we were initially   Tom  (04:47): Trust, but verify, trust, but verify. I got it.   Leandra: Yep.   Emil: Some people who are listening, they're not even sure where, so we publish these valuation reports with each listing that goes on our site. Can you tell the listeners where they can access that with each property?   Leandra: In the analysis tab for each listing, you'll be able to see the valuation report. Initially when you first look at the listing, you'll see the range, you'll see the value range, you'll see the rent range, but clicking on the analysis tab would actually show you the PDF of the report.   Tom: And in that PDF, it's pretty much all the homework, right? You can see the actual comps and the sale date and the square footage.   Leandra: Correct. And if you wanted to see photos of the comparable to kind of just for your own knowledge and how we're comparing it to the subject, you know, just a quick Google search on those comps would be able to show you some photos of the comps we use.   Emil: Got it. Yeah. I was going to ask what's in there besides, I mean, valuation range, obviously you guys pull comps as well. I think neighborhood score is in there. Is there anything else that we add in there?   Leandra: I believe just the subjects data, just your bill bed back, count footage, lot size neighborhood score. I believe school score that's in that as well. And sales comps are going to be in there. Perfect.   Emil: Awesome. Okay. Can you run us through someone who's never done evaluation? Just what does that even look like? Where do you start? What are the processes you go through to get all these comps and come up with the evaluation report?     Leandra: Well, at Roofstock, I mean, the first thing is like, that's verify the data. You know, the seller comes to us with a three bedroom, two bath with 700 square feet and it's like, Ooh, something seems off here. So then we want to look at County records. We want to just see what other data we can find. Funny enough, I have a situation that I ran into this morning where it's a 900 square foot triplex with four bedrooms and three bathrooms. What we found was there was a finished basement that actually has two units. And so what you want to do in those situations, so first verify the data. You want to make sure that we are going to value this properly and you wouldn't be able to use in that situation that I had this morning, priplex comps were all the square footage is above grade. You really want to find one where, you know, there's a main floor and then there's a finished basement with a unit down there. Like that's going to be your best comparable sales. So going back to just the process itself, it's verifying the data before you actually can find what you're looking for, find the right comps, because you want to make sure that you're looking at sales that are recent, especially with market changes. And you want to look at sales that are similar in size, similar in bed bath, count your build location and condition.   Emil: Where are you looking for those comps? Is it Zillow? Is it somewhere else?   Leandra: So we actually have a couple of third party vendors that we use that generate data, sales data, probably from the local MLS or just County record data for prior sales. And so we're taking all that data and actually looking at the ones closest in proximity to the subject. That's really going to define the neighborhood and what that property could sell for. Cause like we know values can differ from one block to another. You see that a lot in Chicago or neighborhoods that are vastly different from blocks of blocks. So we look at third party sources sometimes we'll look at Zillow, but for the most part to sales, we see on Zillow, we've also seen from the data that we pull.   Tom: I think there's this interesting art and science to an appraisal. And you know, you're talking about finding properties that are close in proximity and recent sale. And ideally, you know, you find something that was sold right next door, exact make model. At what point do you put, you know that, Oh, that's too old of a sale that, that shouldn't count in my analysis or, Oh, that's too much square footage. I'd be curious. It's just some general that you, as a longtime appraiser, think about as not valid in comparing.   Leandra: I mean, if the house right next door sold within 12 months, I would still use that as a comp because you have to do this side by side comparison to even see if there was an adjustment in value for that market, for that property. So you have to take more than one comp to figure out what the adjustment is for size, what the adjustment is, if any, for bed bath count and what it is for time, you know, if any, from what the value is today versus where it was last year. So you have to do that analysis with at least three properties. And that's why appraisals tend to have at least three sold comps. So you can really dial it down and figure out what the adjustments are for the different features of the subject.   Tom: Yeah. So that makes sense in that appraisal, it will be much more difficult in areas or more subjective if there isn't a lot of sales. Am I understanding that right?   Leandra: Yeah, that is correct. It's really just based on, and lenders tend to give the most weight to sales comps just because it's kind of like insurance for them. We know we can sell it for this price, should the borrower default or you know, something along those lines. So in areas where there's less sales happening within 12 months, it tends to be difficult. Sometimes we'll have to expand further, go back 18 months and actually apply a time adjustment for those comps that we're using. And even then, it's kind of still just hard to figure out we're having to expand outside the subjects, immediate neighborhood to try to find at least three solid comparables.   Emil: That makes sense. I wrote down a question, I forgot to ask you, as you were going through how we do the evaluations, you mentioned there was a finished basement in that triplex, I'm curious are finished basements included in square footage on a home, or it has to be above ground or whatever you would call it.   Leandra: Correct. On the standard appraisal form. Basements are separated from the above grade square footage. So although this property has two units that are clearly generating income for the owner, that value would be in line on the sales comp grid with the basement and not that above grade level. So it's super important that we find a comp with a similar unit in the basement, which can sometimes be a needle in a haystack, but, but we'll keep expanding and we'll keep doing those time adjustments. If we need to just to find that one, that's really going to help us figure out what this could sell for. So, yeah, you're right. It's not included in the above grade square footage   Tom: Leandra. I know a lot of investors both on the buy and the sell side. They look at Zillow, right? It's super easy. It's kind of tasty, just a single number. What would you have to say to investors who are really banking on that number either as a seller, as a buyer, as that is the truth about what the valuation is on the property?   Leandra: I would say, don't. No, I mean on the surface, it's nice to see, but I wouldn't just stick with one, right? Like look@realtor.com. Look at Redfin, look at Zillow. And more importantly, Zillow has a really nice tool where you can actually dial it down to properties that are more similar in size, kind of how we look for comparable properties when we're valuing our listings, you could do the same thing in Zillow. There's a filter section where you can filter out the small stuff, the big stuff, the stuff different in size. I mean, I'm different in age, different in size and kind of like narrow your search radius to really get a good idea of what your property could be worth. But definitely don't be fixated on that zestimate or that Redfin estimate. Do your own research and do your own comp polls super easy. Zillow has that nifty tool. And I would definitely start there.   Tom: That's great. So get into it. Look at the actual sales comps before leaning so heavily just on that one number they pull up. That's great.   Emil: I want to second that actually. So I track my Zestimate pretty regularly and the first property I bought, it's been about three years since I bought it. And it looked like on paper, according to the Zestimate that it had appreciated like $40,000. So I went to do a cash out refi and it was significantly less just because I think this is just not knowing any better. You really, really have to take into account the quality, like you mentioned, right? Like they're just probably doing it more so based off size, square footage and the surrounding area, but off all the homes in the area where they're coming up with that, or the kitchens are brand new, the bathrooms are brand new in your home. It's a little more dated. You're not going to get in that range.   Leandra: Right. You're right.   Tom: You think you're a C2 Emil, you're a C3 Emil.   Emil: I'm a total C3.   Leandra: No, you hit it right on the nose with that. I mean, Zillow takes all the sales and Zillow doesn't know what the condition is of your property or the property, the other properties that have sold. So that's where really takes that human touch to really figure out and dig deeper. Like, you know, is this actually a good comp.   Emil: Right   Tom: My other question that I have is, so you look at tons of comps all the time. I'd be interested if you've noticed any trends we're roughly, I don't know, two, three months going into a pandemic. Have you noticed any things with the sales price or do you think it's still too early to notice any adjustments and I'd love your thoughts on it?   Leandra: Yeah. I mean, still valuing properties today. Honestly, I have not seen yet any big price drops to where it's significant. What I have seen is a slowdown in actual sales. So a lot of sales data is more from like March, December, January. There's really not too many recent transactions. And then rightly so, right. People may are a little nervous, but I haven't seen a decline in crisis yet.   Tom: It's the function of doing transactions have been stalled up with shelter in place and not being able to go out and do appraisals and counties shutting down. That makes a lot of sense.   Leandra: Yeah, definitely.   Emil: One of the last things I wanted to ask you, so these valuation ranges we have on our reports, what percent of the time is the appraisal coming back in that range? How often are we basically missing? Do we have any data around that   Leandra: we do. It's a small percentage that we're missing. I would say less than 10% of the time. We might have an appraisal that comes in below our value range, but nine times out of 10, almost the appraisal or the actual sell price is within our value range.   Emil: I'm curious, have there been any scenarios where the appraisal comes in lower and someone uses our valuation report to go back to the bank or the appraiser to actually rebut it and it comes in higher?   Leandra: Yes. Whenever that happens, the transaction team reaches out to my team and we review the appraisal report. We review our report and the sales comps we use versus the comps the appraiser used and just see what type of adjustments the appraiser will used in their reports. I had one recently where the appraiser didn't even review the purchase contract. So they don't even know how much this property is being purchased for. And a lot of people just see this as a non MLS sale. So they think there's a discount applied to our properties when there's not. So in those cases, him, I will prepare a rebuttal and send it to the lender. And then the lender would send it back to the appraiser just to kind of review. We might give them additional comps to consider or comment on why it wasn't used in their report.   Emil: Nice. Okay. That's awesome. I didn't even know he provided that. That's great.   Tom: Another question into the crystal ball of appraisals and valuations. So I know right now for originating loans, right? You'd get your appraisal done. And they've always been very particular about doing the full shebang, like an appraiser going to the site. And my understanding is they're getting a little bit looser, at least on the refinance where they're allowing what's called a desktop appraisal. I'd love for you to touch on your thoughts on, you know, where this is going and maybe touch on a little bit about kind of like a desktop appraisal. Like how is that different? And then also, where do you think the, uh, the crystal ball going? I like it, how my voice gets higher as I'm at the end of my sentence. It's like aggressively like full off. Okay, go ahead.   Leandra: You know, even pre COVID Fannie Mae was already working on some sort of desktop reports to help lenders kind of speed up the appraisal process. There's markets today where it takes two weeks to get an appraisal done, maybe even longer, because there's not a lot of appraisers in that area. So in an effort to try to speed up the process, that transaction process or the processing of alone, they were already working on what the industry calls a 1004 P and it's basically a desktop report for appraisers, but an inspector goes and does the inspection. And somehow this was supposed to speed up the process because then appraisers are not having to go out and do the inspection themselves. There's someone else doing it, doing that part of the work, and then giving that information to the appraiser. And the appraiser is just sitting at home, cranking out these desktop reports.   Leandra: So now with COVID-19, I've seen a lot of lenders lean towards, and this is great for everyone's safety is using desktop reports. The only setback to a desktop report is if you had like a brand new remodel done on your house and you're refinancing the, appraiser's not going to know that, um, the appraiser's going to do just based on exterior or what I've seen. There's a company that a couple colleagues work for where they're doing this inspection report. Having the owners actually take photos of their interior and send that to the appraiser. So there's ways around it without, you know, having to expose anyone to anything, you know, for the safety of inspectors and appraisers and for the safety of the homeowners and the people that live there. I have seen more desktops being ordered right now, which is great. I think we could still do an accurate appraisal without having to go inside the property.   Tom: That's great. Yeah. I want to get credit for that C2.   Leandra: You really do. I'm seeing like a $500,000 difference. One of my colleagues did an appraisal in Montclair and it was valued at 1.2 million. And then the borrower's like, hold on. I did all this work. Like I know my house is worth more. And then my friend went back and actually was like, Oh my gosh, this is nothing like the prior MLS photos. Like I was completely wrong. And the value came back at 1.7M. So it's important to actually see if you've done any remodeling for an interior, some sort of interior inspection to be done, whether it's the borrower taking the photos or, or the appraiser just doing the inspection.   Tom: Makes sense. All right. Time for some quick fire questions. Hope you're ready. I hope you're ready. So we do this with some guests. It's a quick either or decision some real estate related some not really real estate related, but all right. So are you ready for this Leandra?   Leandra: Okay.   Tom: High rent growth or low vacancy.   Leandra: Wow. That's tough. No vacancy.   Tom: Good choice. Safe play. I liked that one too. Yeah.   Leandra: Yeah. Slow and steady wins the race. I mean, at least it's consistent.   Tom: Yeah. Flow or appreciation cash flow.   Leandra: Cash flow   Tom: Ooh. Is surprising from an appraiser. Not thinking about that appreciation, but yeah. Debt or equity?   Leandra: Equity   Tom: Equity, love it. Local or remote investing?   Leandra: Ooh. I mean, if I was local in Memphis, then I might say local, but remote. Definitely   Tom: Single family or multifamily?   Leandra: Ooh, that's a good one. I actually have a lot of people ask me about that. Multifamily.   Tom: Ooh. Do you notice a big difference in appreciation between the two, like over the last several years?   Leandra: No. No, not at all. Not really. I think why I would choose multifamily is just a higher cash flow. You know, more rents coming in and again, with the low vacancy, you know, it just sounds like a win for me.   Tom: Turnkey or massive project?   Leandra: Turn key.   Tom: All right. My last three questions, midnight oil or early bird worm?   Leandra: Early bird worm.   Tom: Love it. Text message or email?   Leandra: Text   Tom: And the last question. Olive oil or butter?   Leandra: Olive oil   Tom: Love it. All right. You did it. You made it through. Excellent.   Emil: Well done.   Leandra: Oh my God. That was so fun.   Tom: Well, thank you so much for coming on Leandra. This was enlightening. I love to talk about valuations with you and always learning a little bit. This is fantastic.   Leandra: Thanks for having me. This is great.   Emil: Thanks again to Leandra for coming on our show. This week learned a lot. I hope you did as well before you guys go, wanted to tell you about some new we have going on at Roofstock. It is our referral program. So if you invite your friends and they buy or sell a rental property on Roofstock, you get $250. And so does your friends. So just head over to [inaudible] dot com slash my dash referrals, and you'll be able to invite your friends with a simple link. And again, if they end up buying a property or selling a property through the Roofstock marketplace, they'll get $250 and you'll get $250 for every friend. You refer to check that out and we'll check you out on next week's episode. See you later. Happy investing.   Tom: Happy investing

Soo excited for this next podcast episode with special guests from Art of Floors, Tom Ethridge and Katie Stewart, we'll be discussing what it means to design for the Hospitality industry and how creativity plays a role. In this episode, we discuss the following questions: 1.) [Tom & Katie] From a design standpoint, how is Hospitality different from other industries? 2.) [Tom] How did the idea for Art of Floors get started? What role does creativity play at Art of Floors? 3.) [Katie] What are some design styles that Hospitality clients are drawn towards and why? 4.) [Tom & Katie] If a designer would like to work in the Hospitality industry, what are some essential things you’d look for in a portfolio? 5.) [Tom] How do you see the Hospitality industry changing in the next 5-10 years? How does Art of Floors plan to evolve and “future-proof” its business? 6.) [Katie] What are some up & coming trends you see coming specifically into the Hospitality segment? How do you do your trend research? 7.) [Katie] What types of software do designers need to know to work in Hospitality? Or is it different for every company? 8.) [Tom] How do handmade goods play a role in Hospitality? Do you see a rise in demand for handmade products or only in certain niches? 9.) [Tom] Do you see Art of Floors expanding into other categories? Would you ever offer pillows, upholstery fabrics, or other types of products? 10.) [Katie] Walk us through your career as a designer. You have an interesting story and made some major sacrifices being long distance with your (now) husband. What advice would you give entry level designers who are looking for a new opportunity? ➡️FREE TRAINING in Textile Design:

Following our get to know your hosts episode we thought it would be interesting to find out a little more about each other so we each devised 3 secret questions to ask the other. The questions asked... Adams questions to Tom: How do you maintain your network of contacts? Do you have a 2 year, 5 year and 10 year plan specific to property? Can you give us advice on marketing?                   Toms questions to Adam: What advice would you give yourself on your first day of work knowing what you know now? If you quit your job, had no commitments and £100,000 landed in your account what would you do? What is the worst piece of advice you have ever received.                 For more from the Property Investors Podcast follow us on twitter/instagram @PodcastProperty or join our community on Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/propertyinvestorspodcast Contact us: hello@propertyinvestorspodcast.com (mailto:hello@propertyinvestorspodcast.com) visit us http://www.propertyinvestorspodcast.com  

This week on episode 108 of the Two Blokes Trading podcast: PART 2: Tom continues from where he left off with Nick Leeson. The conversation picks up right as they left it, discussing the strict laws enforced in Singapore before discussing the cocktail ‘The Bank Breaker’ that was named after him. Nick goes into how the losses mounted up for him, pretty much straight from the minute he got off the plane in Singapore. Nick talks about how he’s coped since that time and how he’s been able to find his way back to trading. Guest Interview with Rogue Trader ‘Nick Leeson’The 2nd part of Tom’s interview is with Nick Leeson, the infamous trader that broke Barings Bank by losing over £800 million, over twice the available trading capital of the bank.Nick was sentenced to 6 and a half years in a Singapore prison, although he was released early after being diagnosed with colon cancer. He has recovered and since written a number of books on his experience, while Ewan McGregor played him in the 1999 movie ‘Rogue Trader’. Today, he consults on risk management to investment and financial companies around the world, while still speaking on the after-dinner circuit. He also acts as the Head Trade Consultant at Bizintra Financial Academy. Main Topics Discussed: Tom and Nick share their opinions on Singapore’s chewing gum laws before the way to land a life sentence for carrying ‘a little’ heroin ‘The Bank Breaker’ in Harry’s on Boat Quay When everything went south, starting with the original errors that lead to the five-eights account Despite Nick wasn’t technically the first ‘Rogue Trader’, he still claims to be the ’original’ Rogue Trader How he used alcohol to avoid the realisation of what was happening Not Nick --> “A little bit of naughty business…a bit of false accounting with €7billion” Tom – “How could you possibly want to keep trading after an experience like the one you had?” Nick's total loss was £862million Nick dishes out some advice around how to deal with losing and more generally, the way to come to terms with something that isn’t natural Where can you find Nick Leeson?Website: http://www.nickleeson.comTwitter: @TheNickLeeson  Two Blokes SponsorToday’s episode is sponsored by Bizintra Financial Academy. Bizintra offers sponsored trading programmes that have been developed by professional traders. Don’t pay a fortune to learn how to trade. Simply sign up by using one of their partner brokers and receive trading education and signals by institutional traders.https://bizintra.com/twoblokes/  Want to Talk Shop with the Two Blokes Community?Go to www.twoblokestrading.com/discord and you will automatically be taken to our Discord invite page where you can log in or sign up to be directed to our group.Please keep it classy in a Two Blokes sort of way and feel free to contribute stuff of value. 

This week, I had the pleasure of interviewing Dr. Tom Dykstra, the founder and laboratory director at Dykstra Labs, who also has advanced degrees in entomology and has worked with Dr. Phil Callahan. In this episode, we talk about plant and insect communications, and how plants can only see and feed on plants who are unhealthy (insects are only attracted to unhealthy plants). We also discuss Dr. Dykstra’s current day work in bioelectromagnetics, entomology, and agriculture. This episode is a truly amazing glimpse into these very fascinating areas and how they relate to plant physiology.     Support For This Show & Helping You Grow This show is brought to you by AEA, leaders in regenerative agriculture since 2006. If you are a large-scale grower looking to increase crop revenue and quality, email hello@advancingecoag.com or call 800-495-6603 extension 344 to be connected with a dedicated AEA crop consultant.       Episode 4 - Dr. Dykstra - Highlights 3:00 - What memorable moments lead Tom to where he is today? Getting fired at the University of Florida leading to the path he’s on now Work with flea larvae leading into Tom’s PhD project Insect bioelectromagnetics   5:40 - What is the potential impact of Tom’s work on agriculture? What might farmers be able to apply? Optimizing photosynthesis to optimize Brix level - leading to healthier plants   8:30 - Photosynthesis thoughts. How much is it possible to increase photosynthesis beyond what is normal? What tools can optimize it?  You can increase it substantially Most plants between 4-8 brix. 12 serious insect damage stops. 14 is a genuinely healthy plant Plants are not working up to anywhere near their potential It’s a matter of getting the photosynthetic rate up Need to not be putting up blockages - ex. pesticides Brix is by far the easiest thing to do to measure plant health Need to be weaning off pesticides immediately   17:30 - What can we do to increase energy flow in the soil profile? How much can you afford to lose? Start here Allow weeds to grow here - put out sugar as often as you can This is the cheapest and simplest way to clean out soil as fast as one season Switching over immediately can be a little painful, but anyone can transition slowly Cover crops can also help, but not quite as fast Erosion has recently become a problem   25:00 - Cover crops or applying sugar directly Cover crops take time and can help soil more over time  - directly applying sugar is a massive dose Variety of cover crops is better than just one   27:30 - Why has erosion become such a challenge? Because microbes are gone - leading to fluffy soil that is easily washed away   28:40 - What has been something Tom has puzzled over for a long time? How insects smell - Tom’s own research 10-15 years where Tom was unable to put the pieces together In Nov 2016, they were able to decipher details in how insects smell   31:20 -  Why some insects are attracted to certain regions while others are not? Insects smell with antenna and palps Certain insects are “tuned” into certain smells Some plants will advertise themselves as unhealthy - insects will not attack healthy plants Insects are only looking for digestible plants (unhealthy)   35:20 - What are some of the compounds that serve as insect attractants we could manage and monitor?  Ethanol is a universal odorant advertising plants as unhealthy - a lot of plants will release some sort of alcohol Every insect has its own brix cutoff where it will not attack a plant Massive brix level drop before a storm - temporary measure in plants   42:30 - Are nitrate nitrogen and ammonium nitrogen insect attractants? Indirectly, yes! High nitrogen is not a direct attractant, but the imbalance in the plant causes the plant to advertise itself because it’s stressed   48:10 - What are the possible detection distances for these insect signaling compounds? They can be detected by great distances! Tremendous. No matter the distance.   50:20 - Why do some people seem to attract mosquitoes, and some do not? Like plants, this is the difference between healthy and unhealthy people. Mosquitoes seek people who advertise themselves as having disgestable blood. Mosquitoes have a choice, and are going to choose the most digestible blood available   54:10 - What are the differences between healthy and unhealthy mosquitoes? Not all insects are going to have the same diseases. They have states of health and unhealth   57:00 - What has been something that has really surprised Tom? How different insects are smelling the same molecule - Tom’s focus in his research Insects have multiple receptors for smell Tom has learned throughout his life how little we know so far on these topics   1:01:20 - What does Tom believe to be true about agriculture that many others do not believe to be true?  Insects are only attracted to unhealthy plants  Because of this, pesticides are unnecessary   1:06:30 - What is a book or resource Tom would recommend? Going out there and talking to farmers directly Tom likes giving direct advice     Feedback & Booking Please send your feedback, requests for topics or guests, or booking request have a Podcast episode recorded LIVE at your event -- to production@regenerativeagriculturepodcast.com. You can email John directly at John@regenerativeagriculturepodcast.com.     Sign Up For Special Updates To be alerted via email when new episodes are released, and get special updates about John speaking, teaching, and podcast LIVE recordings, be sure to sign up for our email list.  

00:16 – Welcome to “Cycles in Philosophy of Software, Common Principles with Different Names & Reference” …we mean, “Greater Than Code!” 01:47 – Superhero Origin Story BBC BASIC (http://www.bbcbasic.co.uk/bbcbasic.html) 04:45 – Nomenclature: “Junior” and “Senior” Developers; Differences Between “Early Career” Developers and “Experienced” Developers 13:56 – Solving the Skill Assessment Problem; Learning Methodically 20:55 – Software Development Now vs Then 29:51 – Do Programming Languages Create Certain Biases? 44:16 – Good Mentorship and Telling People What’s Next to Level Up 55:58 – Cohorting/Teaching Classes with Sandi Metz; Object-Oriented Design and Object-Oriented Programming Reflections: Janelle: Looking at things as multidimensional problems. Rein: An Introduction to General Systems Thinking by Gerald M. Weinberg Sam: The importance of the skill of metacognition. Tom: How the work as changed as being a developer. Nonviolent Communication: Life-Changing Tools for Healthy Relationships by Marshall B. Rosenberg PhD This episode was brought to you by @therubyrep (https://twitter.com/therubyrep) of DevReps, LLC (http://www.devreps.com/). To pledge your support and to join our awesome Slack community, visit patreon.com/greaterthancode (https://www.patreon.com/greaterthancode). To make a one-time donation so that we can continue to bring you more content and transcripts like this, please do so at paypal.me/devreps (https://www.paypal.me/devreps). You will also get an invitation to our Slack community this way as well. Amazon links may be affiliate links, which means you’re supporting the show when you purchase our recommendations. Thanks! Special Guest: Tom Stuart.

In this show, we interview…Tom Ziglar. CEO of Ziglar and leader of the legacy! We recently got an iTunes 5-star review that simply said…”More Tom”. So…we aim to deliver, and today, we are! Tom Ziglar has been CEO of Ziglar for a long time, but since Zig passed away 3 years ago, Tom’s impact has ramped up dramatically. Today we make him the focus. Who is Tom? How did he come to run the Ziglar empire, and why? And what does he see for all of us in the future? What is our hope, our opportunity? Our possibility? Then we dig into one of his favorite topics…habit. This show went deep and is a profound commentary on the status of hope, encouragement, and inspiration in today’s world. This show may be the primer you need to hear, before any other show. Thanks to Harry’s Razors and Lenovo for their support of this show. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Happy Mardi Gras! In this WTFFF?! episodes Tracy asks Tom “How come you never make me anything?” I always say how you never make me anything, but it’s really not true. You did make me something for Mardi Gras. Not for Valentine’s Day, mind you, but for Mardi Gras. We had the opportunity to be […]

Happy Mardi Gras! In this WTFFF?! episodes Tracy asks Tom “How come you never make me anything?” I always say how you never make me anything, but it’s really not true. You did make me something for Mardi Gras. Not for Valentine’s Day, mind you, but for Mardi Gras. We had the opportunity to be on a Game of Thrones Mardi Gras float in the parade in San Diego this past weekend. And you made me a Melisandre necklace. You’re going to dress up for a costume party, and you need the right accessory. This is a good example. You can make it. To send us a message, go to 3dstartpoint.com or wtfffpodcast.com or shoot us a message at info@wtfffpodcast.com or on our facebook or twitter! Its absolutely free, so ask away and and don’t forget to subscribe so you can hear more on our regularly scheduled Thursday podcast episodes! Love the show? Subscribe, rate, review, and share! Here’s How » Join the WTFFF?! 3D Printing movement today: 3DStartpoint.com 3D Startpoint Facebook 3D Startpoint LinkedIn Hazz Design Twitter 3D Startpoint YouTube

In this episode Juliet and Clinton answer the following questions: 1. Cassandra - Mississauga, Ontario, Canada “I have a general private therapy practice that I run by myself. I work with adults and some parents. A colleague and I want to do workshops together for parents of teenagers. My website is not focused on teens, but hers is. Do we put information on both of our sites about the workshops, or create a new website?” I am worried about creating confusion on my site, but I am also worried about the time and money involved in creating a new site. Finally, I am concerned that because her site is focused on teens and parents, that any clients that come to us as a result of our workshops will choose her most of the time, because that is the focus on her website. Thanks so much for your answer. I love your show!”  2. Carol - Edinburgh, Scotland “Is ok to edit my old blog posts? I have a lot of posts going back about 3 years, and I don't know if it's ok to update them or should they stay the same? I want to change them because some of them have old information on them (like an article related to a news event) and others are not written as well as they could be so I'd like to re-write them.” 3.  Tom “How many hours should one spend marketing each week? I haven't been marketing regularly even though I need more clients. I don't have much time for marketing with seeing clients, spending time with my family, and my extra-curricular activities, but I know I should be spending some time marketing. And, I do want to grow my practice." Get the show notes with all the links and resources mentioned in this episode at http://askjulietandclinton.com/34