Global Governance Futures: Imperfect Utopias or Bust

In this episode, we welcome one of the most influential voices in international relations, Professor Craig Murphy. A pioneer in global governance scholarship, Craig has been at the forefront of research on international organizations, industrial change, and the historical evolution of global political structures. His work bridges critical theory, historical materialism, and the study of transnational social movements, offering a sweeping perspective on the forces that have shaped our world. In recognition of his significant contribution to the field, Craig has received the Distinguished Senior Scholar Award in International Political Economy (2013) and International Organization (2024) from the International Studies Associations. In this conversation, we trace Craig's trajectory through the intellectual landscape of the 1970s, where emerging ideas on world-systems theory, quantitative peace research, and environmental limits reshaped the study of international politics. With trademark humour, he reflects on the influence of Robert Cox and historical materialism, the critical need to challenge “relentless presentism” in global governance research, and the dual role of international institutions – as both market-builders for industrial capitalism and platforms for political resistance. We close by reflecting on a world grappling with existential threats and Craig's salutary reminder that the task ahead is not just to critique existing governance but to fundamentally rethink and remake it. Craig Murphy is the Betty Freyhof Johnson '44 Professor Emeritus of Political Science at Wellesley College. A leading scholar of global governance, he has served as President of the International Studies Association (2000-2001) and co-editor of the journal Global Governance. Craig Murphy's Wellesley profile can be found here: https://www1.wellesley.edu/politicalscience/faculty/murphy We discussed: • ‘Every Just Peace is Something New: Translating a Difficult Finding from the Social Sciences to the Humanities and Back', unpublished manuscript. • International Organization and Industrial Change: Global Governance since 1850 (Oxford, 1994). • ‘Global Governance Over the Long Haul', International Studies Quarterly (2014). • ‘Global governance: poorly done and poorly understood', International Affairs (2000).

In this episode, we welcome longtime friend and collaborator of the UCL Global Governance Institute, Professor Philipp Pattberg, to the podcast, a leading scholar in global environmental governance and sustainability transitions. As Director of the Amsterdam Sustainability Institute and Professor of Transnational Environmental Governance at VU Amsterdam, Philipp's research examines the role of non-state actors, polycentric governance, and institutional complexity in shaping environmental policy. His work has not only advanced our understanding of governance arrangements beyond the nation-state but has also been instrumental in defining the contours of global governance itself – critically interrogating how the very concept of governance is framed, structured, and, ultimately, deployed in the world. With the UN Climate Change Conference (COP30) in Belém, Brazil, fast approaching, we take stock of the evolving governance landscape under the Paris Agreement. A decade after its adoption, the Paris framework continues to define global climate efforts – but does it still hold promise as an effective governance mechanism? In this episode, Pattberg explores the tensions between ambition and implementation, the growing role of private authority and climate clubs, and the need for transformative governance approaches to meet the urgency of the climate crisis. He also reflects on the broader implications of environmental governance beyond climate, from biodiversity loss to planetary boundaries, and what lessons can be drawn for possible futures of multilateralism. Throughout, he challenges us to consider how governance itself is shaped by ideological assumptions, questioning the analytical ‘boxes' that define the field. Philipp is Professor of Transnational Environmental Governance at VU Amsterdam and Director of the Amsterdam Sustainability Institute. His research focuses on climate governance, biodiversity policy, and institutional change in global sustainability governance. He has published extensively in leading journals, including Global Governance, Global Environmental Politics and Environmental Policy and Governance, and is the author of Private Institutions and Global Governance and Environmental Politics and Governance in the Anthropocene (with Frank Biermann). Philipp's VU Amsterdam profile can be found here: https://research.vu.nl/en/persons/ph-pattberg We discussed: • '20 Years of global climate change governance research: taking stock and moving forward', International Environment Agreements (2022). With Cille Kaiser, Oscar Widerberg and Johannes Stripple. • ‘Forum: Global Governance: Decline or Maturation of an Academic Concept?' International Studies Review (2010). With Hans Overbeek, Klaus Dingwerth and Daniel Compagnon. • ‘The Fragmentation of Global Governance Architectures: A Framework for Analysis', Global Environmental Politics (2009). With Frank Biermann, Harro van Asselt and Fariborz Zelli. • ‘Global Governance as a Perspective on World Politics', Global Governance (2006). With Klaus Dingwerth.

Jonathan Blake and Nils Gilman join us to discuss their recent book, Children of a Modest Star: Planetary Thinking for an Age of Crises, in which they propose a framework of "planetary thinking" to address the interconnected crises facing humanity. Drawing on historical lessons from the COVID-19 pandemic, the International Atomic Energy Agency, and the eradication of smallpox, among other examples, Blake and Gilman advocate for moving beyond traditional state-centered responses. They urge a reorientation toward systemic, planetary-scale challenges that acknowledge humanity's deep entanglement with ecological and biogeochemical systems. In this episode, we explore why "planetarity" is an idea whose time has come, the limitations of anthropocentric institutions, the practicalities of planetary governance in a world marked by socio-political differences, and the critical role of new epistemological frameworks in addressing climate change, biodiversity loss, and global security. Jonathan Blake is the Associate Director of Programs at the Berggruen Institute, where he oversees research projects and the broader research agenda for the Planetary Program. A political scientist with a PhD from UC Berkeley, his work focuses on planetary politics, ethnic conflict, and migration, among other topics. His writing has appeared in Noema, where he serves as Associate Editor, as well as in The Atlantic, Boston Review, The Nation, Los Angeles Review of Books, and various academic journals. Nils Gilman is the Chief Operating Officer and Executive Vice President at the Berggruen Institute and also serves as Deputy Editor of Noema Magazine. He is the author of Mandarins of the Future: Modernization Theory in Cold War America (2004), Deviant Globalization: Black Market Economy in the 21st Century (2011), and Children of a Modest Star: Planetary Thinking for an Age of Crises (2024). Holding a Bachelor's, Master's, and Doctorate in History from UC Berkeley, Gilman is a historian and political theorist with a career spanning academia and consultancy in international security. His work has contributed to foundational insights on climate security and governance, and his writings frequently explore the limitations of current institutions in addressing planetary-scale crises, positioning him as a leading voice in reimagining governance frameworks for the Anthropocene. Jonathan tweets @jonathansblake: https://x.com/jonathansblake Nils tweets @nils_gilman: https://x.com/nils_gilman We discussed: Children of a Modest Star: Planetary Thinking for an Age of Crises (Stanford University Press, 2024): https://www.sup.org/books/politics/children-modest-star

In this episode, we welcome one of the foremost scholars in international relations to the podcast, Professor Martha Finnemore. Recognized globally for her pioneering contributions to the field, Finnemore recently received the 2023 Johan Skytte Prize in Political Science alongside Alexander Wendt. This prestigious accolade celebrates their groundbreaking work in constructivism, a theory that has reshaped how we understand international politics by emphasizing the role of shared ideas and norms. In this episode, Finnemore reflects on the journey and impact of constructivism, tracing its rise from a niche critique to a central framework in global governance. We explore the intellectual and real-world challenges of persuading a discipline once dominated by materialist paradigms to take seriously the power of ideas. With enviable clarity, she explains how constructivism reveals the social underpinnings of power, from norms shaping cybersecurity to the shared authority in the governance of AI. Martha Finnemore is University Professor of Political Science and International Affairs at George Washington University. A leading scholar in global governance, international organizations, and social theory, her award-winning books include Rules for the World and The Purpose of Intervention. Her research has appeared in top journals like International Organization and World Politics. A Fellow of the American Academy of Arts and Sciences, she has held research appointments at Brookings and Stanford and received fellowships from the MacArthur Foundation and the United States Institute of Peace. Martha's GWU profile can be found here: https://elliott.gwu.edu/martha-finnemore We discussed: The Skytte Prize citation: https://www.skytteprize.com/prize-laureates/martha-finnemore-and-alexander-wendt Who Governs the Globe (with Deborah Avant and Susan K. Sell): https://www.cambridge.org/core/books/who-governs-the-globe/6B6B62E4C2E00E560DF3B2B35E79C839 Rules for the World: International Organizations in Global Politics (with Michael Barnett): https://www.cornellpress.cornell.edu/book/9780801488238/rules-for-the-world/

Join me and some of our amazing UCL students as we delve into the world of global governance! Olivia Crosby, Oliver Parker, and Rachel Dodimead, all part of the MSc in Global Governance and Ethics in the Department of Political Science at University College London, chat about what it's like studying here, their favourite moments from the year, and their aspirations for the future. We talk about their year full of discoveries, heaps of reading, hard work, and an eventful international trip to Geneva. As they wrap up their classes and start their research projects (and look for jobs!), it's the perfect time to reflect on everything they've learned and what makes their group (and global governance) so special. The MSc Global Governance and Ethics website can be found here: https://www.ucl.ac.uk/political-scien... UCL Political Science can be found here: https://www.ucl.ac.uk/political-science/ UCL Global Governance Institute: https://www.ucl.ac.uk/global-governance/ UCL Global Governance Futures: Imperfect Utopias or Bust? podcast: https://www.ucl.ac.uk/global-governan... We discussed: Bonnita Roy – We Need to Watch Each Other Grow: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DMyXBSHoL3s&t=0s

Craig Murphy and Jonathan Rowson join us for a dialogue on global politics and the metacrisis, using as a springboard for this conversation the essay ‘Prefixing the World: Why the polycrisis is a permacrisis, which is actually a metacrisis, which is not really a crisis at all', published by Jonathan on his Substack blog in late 2023. Craig recently participated in a panel on Crisis in Global Governance at the International Studies Association annual meeting where he engaged with Jonathan's work in his remarks, seeing certain affinities between Jonathan's claim that all global problems of the moment are connected to a single source, a single metacrisis and Craig's own insights into the importance of grappling with the possible interconnections across global problems if problem solvers are going to develop the kind of complex solidarity that is likely to be essential to any adequate response to the daunting challenges of our times. We were honoured to be able to bring these two distinguished scholars and authors together for a far-reaching and deeply meaningful conversation. Craig Murphy is Betty Freyhof Johnson '44 Professor Emeritus of Political Science at Wellesley College and is a leading light in the fields of international relations and political science, known particularly for his pioneering research on global governance. Jonathan Rowson is Co-founder and Chief Executive of Perspectiva, which is a collective of scholars, artists and activists who produce and publish outputs concerned with understanding the relationship between systems, souls and society in theory and practice. He was previously Director of the Social Brain Centre at the RSA where he authored a range of influential research reports on behaviour change, climate change and spirituality, and curated and chaired a range of related events. Craig's official website profile can be found here: https://www1.wellesley.edu/politicalscience/faculty/murphy Jonathan's profile can be found on the Perspectiva website: https://systems-souls-society.com/origin/people/ He tweets @Jonathan_Rowson His essays can also be read at Substack: https://substack.com/@jonathanrowson We discussed: Ursula Le Guin, ‘The Ones Who Walk Away from Omelas', 1973: https://shsdavisapes.pbworks.com/f/Omelas.pdf Geoff Mann, ‘It Was Not Supposed to End This Way', August 2019: https://www.bostonreview.net/articles/geoff-mann-it-was-not-supposed-end-way/ See our podcast conversation Geoff Mann here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WFmOtlbJPts Craig Murphy, ‘Leadership, Global Governance, and Peace', November 2018: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZ_nXvzcOEE Craig Murphy, ‘Engineering Rules', 2024: https://www.press.jhu.edu/books/title/11653/engineering-rules#:~:text=of%20the%20internet.-,In%20Engineering%20Rules%2C%20JoAnne%20Yates%20and%20Craig%20N.,on%20all%20of%20our%20lives. Kim Stanley Robinson, The Ministry of the Future: https://www.orbitbooks.net/orbit-excerpts/the-ministry-for-the-future/ Jonathan Rowson, ‘Prefixing the World,' September 2023: https://perspecteeva.substack.com/p/prefixing-the-world Jonathan Rowson, ‘Tasting the Pickle: ten flavours of meta-crisis and the appetite for a new civilisation', February 2021: https://systems-souls-society.com/tasting-the-pickle-ten-flavours-of-meta-crisis-and-the-appetite-for-a-new-civilisation/ Adam Tooze, ‘Welcome to the world of the polycrisis', Financial Times, 28 October 2022: https://www.ft.com/content/498398e7-11b1-494b-9cd3-6d669dc3de33

Tim Maughan is a British science fiction writer whose work critically explores the intersections of technology and society. He is perhaps best known for his debut novel, “Infinite Detail,” which was a 2020 Locus Award finalist for best first novel and shortlisted for the British Science Fiction Association Award for Best Novel. "Infinite Detail" presents a prescient examination of the dystopian implications of surveillance capitalism and the fragility of the internet. Prior to this novel, Maughan gained recognition for his short stories, such as those compiled in “Paintwork,” which delve into similar themes of urban culture and future technologies. He has written for TV and film, including being a story producer and writer for the Emmy nominated Netflix show The Future Of. His non-fiction writing and analysis has been published by the BBC, Esquire, MIT Technology Review, New Scientist and Vice, and has included in-person reporting from massive container ships and factories in China, alongside features and commentary on subjects as varied as fashion in the Metaverse and the political impacts of large, complex systems. In 2015 he was the receiver of the Seahorse Award for Supply Chain Journalist of the Year. In this conversation, we reflect on the themes in Infinite Detail, the fragility of technological civilization, and the future direction of our increasingly digital world. Tim's official website can be found here: https://www.timmaughanbooks.com/ He tweets @timemaughan We discussed: Infinite Detail (2019): https://us.macmillan.com/books/9780374175412/infinitedetail The invisible network that keeps the world running (2015): https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20150209-the-network-that-runs-the-world

Philip Cunliffe joins us to talk about his recent book ‘The New 20 Year Crisis' which draws inspiration for the classic 1939 text ‘The 20 Year Crisis' by E. H. Carr to advance a powerful, incisive critique both of the liberal internationalist project of the past two decades, as well as the discipline of IR itself which beguiled by the ‘unipolar imaginary' has failed to comprehend the depth of the transformations currently underway in international politics. Philip provocatively argues that we are living through a wholesale structural reconfiguration of the international political order, a reconfiguration which spells the end of ‘the utopian dream of the receding era of unipolarity'. This claim sets the stage for a lively conversation where we touch upon questions of realism versus idealism, the autonomous logic of realpolitik, liberalism post-unipolarity, why Karl Rove is the ultimate constructivist(!), and, ultimately, why a fundamental rethink in how we practice and teach international relations is now essential if we are to fully reckon with rising multipolarity and shifting global power dynamics. Philip Cunliffe is Associate Professor in International Relations at the Institute for Risk & Disaster Reduction, University College London where he researches and teaches on the topics of international order, multinational military intervention and conflict management. He has 20 years of academic experience, having previously worked as a Senior Lecturer at the University of Kent and a Temporary Lecturer at the UK's Joint Services Command and Staff College. He obtained his PhD in War Studies from King's College London. He has also worked as a contributor to the Economist Intelligence Unit. He is a prolific author and editor, having published eight books and numerous academic articles and chapters on various aspects of international politics and security. He is committed to engaging with the public and the media, and writes for various outlets, including UnHerd, the New Statesman, the Spectator, the Times (London), Daily Telegraph, Compact, among others. He has also appeared on TV and radio including BBC Radio 4 and GB News. Philip co-hosts the @bungacast podcast: https://bungacast.com/ And tweets @thephilippics: https://x.com/thephilippics His Substack is at https://thephilippics.substack: https://thephilippics.substack.com/ Philip's UCL profile can be found here: https://profiles.ucl.ac.uk/88668-philip-cunliffe/publications We discussed: The New Twenty Years' Crisis A Critique of International Relations, 1999-2019 (2020): https://www.mqup.ca/new-twenty-years--crisis--the-products-9780228001027.php#:~:text=The%20New%20Twenty%20Years'%20Crisis%20reveals%20that%20the%20liberal%20international,of%20the%20crisis%20are%20internal. Cosmopolitan dystopia International intervention and the failure of the West (2020): https://manchesteruniversitypress.co.uk/9781526105738/

Professor Giorgio Savini is an astrophysicist at University College London, specialising in instrumentation for space exploration. As a key figure at UCL's Department of Physics and Astronomy, his work bridges the gap between astrophysics and engineering, focusing on the development of cutting-edge technologies for space telescopes and satellite systems. He has been involved in major international consortiums, including working on the Planck Probe's High Frequency Instrument and currently serving as Payload Scientist on the European Space Agency ARIEL mission. In this conversation, we delve into the practical implications of space governance on the work of scientists and technicians tasked with pushing the frontiers of space exploration, why the 1967 Outer Space Treaty is not fit for purposes, the very real dangers posed by Kessler Syndrome (space debris), and what global governance should have to do with it. Giorgio's official profile can be found here: https://www.ucl.ac.uk/physics-astronomy/people/professor-giorgio-savini We discussed: The Outer Space Treaty, 1967: https://www.unoosa.org/oosa/en/ourwork/spacelaw/treaties/introouterspacetreaty.html The Moon Agreement, 1984: https://www.unoosa.org/oosa/en/ourwork/spacelaw/treaties/intromoon-agreement.html The Artemis Accords, 2020: https://www.nasa.gov/artemis-accords/

Deborah Avant is the Sié Chéou-Kang Chair for International Security and Diplomacy at the Josef Korbel School of International Studies, University of Denver. She is a distinguished scholar in the field of international relations, renowned for her expertise in global governance, security studies, and civil-military relations. Her groundbreaking 2005 book, The Market for Force: The Consequences of Privatizing Security earned her widespread acclaim and shone an important light on privatization of military services and its implications for global security. Her current research uses network and pragmatic theory to understand how security and governance are actually conducted – both historically and in the contemporary world. In this conversation, we reflect on the role of private military companies and the aftermath of the Iraq War. challenges and opportunities in security studies, the role of academia in addressing global crises, the importance of questioning conventional wisdom, and much more. Deborah's official profile can be found here: https://korbel.du.edu/about/directory/deborah-avant We discussed: The Market for Force: The Consequences of Privatizing Security, 2005: https://www.cambridge.org/core/books/market-for-force/0EAE220EDCBF4ADF88F97B6F7B1BDD10 Who Governs the Globe (with M. Finnemore and S. Sell), 2010: https://www.cambridge.org/core/books/who-governs-the-globe/6B6B62E4C2E00E560DF3B2B35E79C839 The Ethics of Engaged Scholarship in a Complex World, 2024: https://academic.oup.com/ia/article-abstract/100/1/159/7506709?redirectedFrom=fulltext

Professor Abdullahi Ahmed An-Na'im is the Charles Howard Candler Professor of Law Emeritus at Emory Law, associated professor in the Emory College of Arts and Sciences, and senior fellow of the Center for the Study of Law and Religion of Emory University. A world-renowned scholar of Islam and human rights and human rights in cross-cultural perspectives, An-Na'im teaches courses in international law, comparative law, human rights, and Islamic law. His research interests include constitutionalism in Islamic and African countries, secularism, Islam and politics and human rights. Our conversation was inspired by his latest book, Decolonizing Human Rights, which challenges both historical interpretations of Islamic Sharia and neocolonial understanding of human rights. Abdullahi proposes a transformation from human rights organised around state-determined practice to one that is focused on what he calls a “people-centric” approach that empowers individuals to decide how human rights will be understood and integrated into their communities. This argument serves as the starting point for our conversation on the complexities, paradoxes and cultural dimensions that challenge a traditional Western perspective on human rights and invites inquiry into what a decolonized, culturally-inclusive alternative might look like. Abdullahi's official profile can be found here: https://law.emory.edu/faculty/faculty-emeritus/annaim-emeritus-profile.html We discussed: Decolonizing Human Rights, 2021: https://www.cambridge.org/core/books/abs/decolonizing-human-rights/decolonizing-human-rights/1A39889DEDE614E07D18FFF988BF085F Human Rights and its Inherent Liberal Relativism, 2019: https://goldsmithspress.pubpub.org/pub/v1c6tsos/release/1 Human Rights in Cross-Cultural Perspectives: A Quest for Consensus, 2010: https://muse.jhu.edu/book/340

Professor Cynthia Enloe is a Research Professor in the Department of Sustainability and Social Justice at Clark University in Worcester, Massachusetts. Cynthia is one of the leading voices on gender and militarism, as well as one of the main proponents of feminist international relations. With fifteen published books and numerous awards to her name, Cynthia is a passionate lecturer and activist, dedicated to raising awareness about how feminist and gendered perspectives have shaped both national and international political discourse. Her contribution to advancing gender justice in international politics has been recognised by the inclusion on the Gender Justice Legacy Wall unveiled at the International Criminal Court at The Hague. Our conversation was inspired by her latest book, Twelve Feminist Lessons of War, which urges us to contemplate and maintain curiosity about the diverse realities of women's wartime lived realities. In a world marked by conflict, Cynthia emphasises the need to acknowledge that “women's wars are not men's wars” as a foundation for building enduring peace. This principle serves as the starting point for our conversation on the gendered experiences of war, hierarchies of femininities and masculinities, and the importance of transnational feminist solidarity. Cynthia can be found here: https://www.clarku.edu/faculty/profiles/cynthia-enloe/ We discussed: • Twelve Feminist Lessons of War (London: Footnote Press; Berkeley: University of California Press), 2023. • Bananas, Beaches and Bases: Making Feminist Sense of International Politics (Berkley: University of California Press), 2014. • The Curious Feminist: Searching for Women in a New Age of Empire (Berkley: University of California Press), 2004. • Maneuvers: The International Politics of Militarizing Women's Lives (Berkley: University of California Press), 2000.

Bonnitta Roy is an author and a teacher. Her work focuses on breaking away from limiting patterns of thought. She is the founder of Alderlore Insight Centre, a non-profit educational organisation focusing on secondary education and insight training for post-formal thinkers. She is Professor in Residence for the MA in Consciousness Studies and Transpersonal Psychology at the Graduate Institute, and an Associate Editor of Integral Review. Bonnitta is among a brilliant cast of metamodern thinkers. In this regard, her work considers how the sense of crisis many of us feel has as much to do with how we perceive the world as with what goes on within it. We are living through a period of disruptive change and Bonnitta sees these times as an invitation to grapple with the limitations of our inherited toolbox of linear and causal ways of thinking. In this episode we reflect on the limitations of human consciousness and discuss the potential for good that stems from reimagining the way we think. Bonnitta's work can be found here: https://bonnittaroy.substack.com/ https://www.kosmosjournal.org/contributor/bonnitta-roy/ https://tllp.org/people/bonnitta-roy/ https://systems-souls-society.com/origin/people/ Keep up with Bonnitta on Twitter: https://twitter.com/bonnittaroy We discussed: “Complex Potential States: A theory of Change that can account for beauty and generate life” in The Side View, November 2021 https://thesideview.co/journal/complex-potential-states/ “Time, Change and Causality: Notes toward metamorphosis of mind” in Dispatches from a Time Between Worlds: Crisis and emergence in metamoderntiy (Pespectiva, 2021) (ed. Jonathan Rowson & Layman Pascal)

Professor Michael Barnett is University Professor of International Affairs and Political Science at the George Washington University. Michael is one of the leading International Relations scholars of his generation and a major figure in the field of humanitarianism, global governance, global ethics and the United Nations. He has set the coordinates for major debates in the field, including investigation of the sometimes positive, sometimes pernicious effects of international organisations on global politics, as well as bringing issues of institutional bias, privilege and power inequity to the fore when thinking about global governance. Among his many books are Eyewitness to a Genocide: The United Nations and Rwanda; Empire of Humanity: A History of Humanitarianism; Rules for the World: International Organizations in World Politics (with Martha Finnemore); and Power and Global Governance (co-edited with Raymond Duvall). In this podcast we talk about humanitarian intervention, the liberal biases of the post-Cold War and whether global governance has reached its sell-by-date. Michael can be found here: https://elliott.gwu.edu/michael-barnett We also discussed: ‘Is Israel on the Precipice of Genocide?' Political Violence at a Glance, 6 March 2023: https://politicalviolenceataglance.org/2023/03/06/is-israel-on-the-precipice-of-genocide/ ‘COVID-19 and the Sacrificial International Order', International Organization, 2020: https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/international-organization/article/covid19-and-the-sacrificial-international-order/7D64519B3541BD20C77D4DE82702243F ‘Accountability and global governance: The view from paternalism', Regulation & Governance, 2016: https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/rego.12083 Power in Global Governance, Cambridge University Press, 2005 (with Raymond Duvall).

Professor Geoff Mann is Distinguished Professor of Geography at Simon Fraser University, Vancouver BC. Geoff is an award-winning political economist and writer, known as a leading researcher on the historical development and future trajectory of economic governance set against the backdrop of the climate crisis. He is a senior fellow at the Institute for New Economic Thinking and a 2022 recipient of a Guggenheim Fellowship award for his contributions to his field. Among many publications, the book Climate Leviathan: A Political Theory of Our Planetary Future (Verso, 2018) (with Joel Wainwright) is a vital referent point for anyone interested in the radical political consequences of climate change. But it is the quite brilliant 2019 article in the Boston Review ‘It Was Not Supposed to End This Way' and his intriguing claim that ‘the tragedy of liberalism is its inability to narrate the end progress' which serves as the point of departure for our conversation. In this podcast we talk about the scale and depth of the challenge posed by the Anthropocene, the impossible ‘We', the tragedy of liberalism, and where we might look for alternative stories to narrate the end of progress, and much, much more. Geoff can be found here: https://www.sfu.ca/geography/about/our-people/profiles/Geoff-Mann.html And tweets @GeoffPMann: https://twitter.com/GeoffPMann We discussed: ‘Markets Won't Stop Fossil Fuels', Dissent Magazine, Spring 2023: https://www.dissentmagazine.org/article/markets-wont-stop-fossil-fuels/ ‘It Was Not Supposed to End This Way', Boston Review, 13 August 2019: https://www.bostonreview.net/articles/geoff-mann-it-was-not-supposed-end-way/ Climate Leviathan: A Political Theory of Our Planetary Future (Verso, 2018) (with Joel Wainwright): https://www.versobooks.com/en-gb/products/520-climate-leviathan

Professor David Kennedy is the Manley O. Hudson Professor of Law and Faculty Director of the Institute for Global Law and Policy at Harvard Law School. Described by prominent historian Samuel Moyn as “the single most important innovator in international legal thought of the past several decades,” David is renowned for his penetrating and critical analysis of the place of law in global governance. He is the author of numerous books and articles exploring issues of global governance, human rights, development policy and the nature of professional expertise. His most recent book with Harvard University Press, Of Law and the World, is a searching dialogue between himself and close associate and renowned critical legal scholar in his own right, Professor Martti Koskenniemi: https://www.hup.harvard.edu/catalog.php?isbn=9780674290785 In this conversation we talk about a political economy approach to global governance, what international law has got to do with it, experts and lawyers as “governors,” the role of critical scholarship, and much, much more. David can be found here: https://hls.harvard.edu/faculty/david-w-kennedy/ We discussed: A World of Struggle: How Power, Law and Expertise Shape Global Political Economy, Princeton University Press (2016): https://press.princeton.edu/books/hardcover/9780691146782/a-world-of-struggle Interview with David Kennedy, “Global Governance in Crisis Time,” 25 June 2020: https://www.centeronnationalsecurity.org/vital-interests-issue-37-david-kennedy “The mystery of global governance,” Ohio Northern University Law Review, vol. 34 (2008): http://iglp.law.harvard.edu/wp-content/uploads/2022/02/Kennedy_GlobalGovernance.pdf The Rights of Spring: A Memoir of Innocence Abroad, Princeton University Press (2009): https://press.princeton.edu/books/paperback/9780691141381/the-rights-of-spring

Dr Rhoda E. Howard-Hassmann is Canada Research Chair in International Human Rights and Professor Emeritus at the Department of Political Science and the School of International Policy and Governance (Balsillie School of International Affairs), Wilfrid Laurier University in Ontario, Canada. A sociologist by training, Professor Howard-Hassmann is widely recognized as a leading interdisciplinary scholar in the field of human rights, named in 2006 the first Distinguished Scholar of Human Rights by the Human Rights Section, American Political Science Association and in 2014 a Distinguished Scholar of Human Rights by the Human Rights Section of the International Studies Association. In this conversation we talk about the universality of human rights, women's rights, citizenship apartheid, cultural relativism, the limits of philosophy, and much, much more. Rhoda can be found here: https://www.wlu.ca/academics/faculties/faculty-of-arts/faculty-profiles/rhoda-e-howard-hassmann/index.html She blogs at: https://rhodahassmann.blogspot.com/ We discussed: 2018. In Defense of Universal Human Rights: https://www.wiley.com/en-us/In+Defense+of+Universal+Human+Rights-p-9781509513536 2021. ‘A new hope for human rights.' Journal of Human Rights: https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/14754835.2021.1920896?journalCode=cjhr20 2021. ‘Human Rights: What Does the Future Hold?' (by Daniel Braaten). International Studies Review: https://academic.oup.com/isr/article-abstract/23/3/1164/6041199?login=false Image: Frans Francken (II) - Mankind's Eternal Dilemma – The Choice Between Virtue and Vice

Professor Thomas Oatley is the Corasaniti-Zondorak Chair of International Relations at Tulane University. He focuses his research and teaching on the intersection of American hegemony and international political economy (IPE). Widely regarded as a scholar at the leading-edge of IPE research, Thomas has in recent years adopted an explicit complex systems frame to undergird a powerful critique of orthodox IPE and international relations approaches to studying the global economy and world order. In this conversation we talk about the value of thinking in terms of complex systems, why complexity theory remains on the margins of global political scholarship, the nexus between our global financial and energy systems, green industrial policy and much, much more. Thomas can be found here: https://liberalarts.tulane.edu/departments/political-science/people/thomas-oatley He tweets @thoatley We discussed: ‘Energy and the Complexity of International Order', Global Environmental Politics (2021): https://direct.mit.edu/glep/article-abstract/21/4/20/107829/Energy-and-the-Complexity-of-International-Order ‘Green industrial policy and the global transformation of climate politics' (with B. Allan and J. I. Lewis), Global Environmental Politics (2021): https://direct.mit.edu/glep/article/21/4/1/107853/Green-Industrial-Policy-and-the-Global ‘Toward a political economy of complex interdependence', European Journal of International Relations (2019): https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/1354066119846553?journalCode=ejta Joseph Tainter, The Collapse of Complex Societies (1990): https://www.cambridge.org/gb/academic/subjects/archaeology/archaeological-theory-and-methods/collapse-complex-societies?format=PB&isbn=9780521386739

Professor Sheldon Solomon is the Ross Professor for Interdisciplinary Studies at Skidmore College, New York. Professor Sheldon is one of the true pioneers in the fields of social and evolutionary psychology. Best known for developing terror management theory (TMT), along with Jess Greenberg and Tom Pyszczynski, Sheldon and colleagues have revolutionised our understanding of how humans deal with their own sense of mortality and the often destructive effects of ‘death denial' on individual and collective behaviour. An engaging speaker and raconteur, in more recent years Sheldon has turned his attention to how death anxiety might be related to the anthropocene and the insatiable appetite of humans for more, whether that be cheap energy or lethal consumption. In this conversation we talk about why death denial is so pervasive, evidence underpinning TMT, death and the Hobbesian imperative in global politics, hope without optimism, Epicurus, Heidegger and much, much more. Solomon can be found here: https://www.skidmore.edu/psychology/faculty/solomon.php We discussed: ‘Death Denial in the Anthropocene' In the book: K. Zywert & Stephen Quilley (eds.), Health in the Anthropocene: Living Well on a Finite Planet (University of Toronto Press, 2020): https://utorontopress.com/9781487524142/health-in-the-anthropocene/ The Worm at the Core: On The Role of Death in Life (with Jeff Greenberg and Tom Pyszczynski) (Penguin/Random House, 2015): https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/170217/the-worm-at-the-core-by-sheldon-solomon-jeff-greenberg-and-tom-pyszczynski/ Ernest Becker, The Denial of Death (Free Press/Macmillan, 1973): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Denial_of_Death Flight from Death, 2003 documentary: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flight_from_Death

Adrienne Buller is the Director of Research at Common Wealth, an organization focused on promoting democratic ownership to transform how the economy operates and for whom. Adrienne has recently published ‘The Value of a Whale: On the Illusions of Green Capitalism' (2022), offering a deep dive into the fatal biases that have shaped the response of our governing institutions to climate and environmental breakdown. Tracing the intricate connections between financial power, economic injustice and ecological crisis, she exposes the myopic economism and market-centric thinking presently undermining a future where all life can flourish. Adrienne also has significant experience at the coalface of climate policy advocacy, having served as the Co-Director of the campaign group Labour for a Green New Deal through 2017 and 2018. Adrienne holds an MSc in Global Governance and Ethics from our very own University College London and a Bachelor of Science from McGill University. We discussed ‘The Value of a Whale,' the flaws in mainstream climate and environmental governance, corporate ‘green growth' mindsets, the commodification of nature. and much, much more. Adrienne tweets @adribuller: https://twitter.com/adribuller Publications: The Value of a Whale: On the Illusions of Green Capitalism (Manchester University Press, 2022): https://manchesteruniversitypress.co.uk/9781526162632/ Owning the Future: Power and Property in an Age of Crisis (with Matthew Laurence) (Verso Books, 2022): https://www.versobooks.com/books/3981-owning-the-future

Nate Hagens is the Director of The Institute for the Study of Energy & Our Future (ISEOF), an organization focused on educating and preparing society for the coming cultural transition. Allied with leading ecologists, energy experts, politicians and systems thinkers ISEOF assembles road-maps and off-ramps for how human societies can adapt to lower throughput lifestyles. He is the host of the podcast The Great Simplification which explores the systems science underpinning the human predicament, offering analysis and discussion of the environment, ecology, geopolitics and the future implications of the upcoming energy transition. Nate holds a Masters Degree in Finance with Honors from the University of Chicago and a Ph.D. in Natural Resources from the University of Vermont. He teaches an Honors course, Reality 101, at the University of Minnesota. We discussed peak oil, the calorific value of a barrel of oil, trade-offs between being accurate and being helpful, conspicuous consumption and dopamine hijacking, building a reality-based future and much, much more. More information on Nate and The Great Simplification can be found here: https://www.thegreatsimplification.com/ Nate tweets @NJHagens: https://twitter.com/NJHagens We discussed: Nate's lecture series Reality 101 (episodes 1-10 available here): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YsgxopIZzto&list=PLdHV4AV3ixB0n2OE8ent9k2RsJfomrGpC Nate Hagens and D J White, Reality Blind Vol. 1: Integrating the Systems Science Underpinning Our Collective Futures: https://read.realityblind.world/view/975731937/

Jonathon Keats is an American conceptual artist and experimental philosopher known for creating large-scale thought experiments. He is the author of various books, including You Belong to the Universe: Buckminster Fuller and the Future which sets out to revive the inventor Buckminster Fuller's (1895-1983) unconventional practice of comprehensive anticipatory design, placing Fuller's philosophy in a modern context and dispelling much of the mythology surrounding Fuller's life. As a major influence on this podcast, we were delighted to have a chance to delve deep into the life and work of Buckminster Fuller with Jonathon, a visionary thinker in his own right. Indeed, legendary sci-fi writer Bruce Sterling says of Jonathon: “If he's one in a billion rather than just a million, he might become the pioneer of a mighty school of twenty­first century scientific art­philosophy. If he's lucky, he won't be—but if we're lucky, he will." We discussed experimental philosophy, thought experiments, Spaceship Earth and Bucky's “world game,” why absurdity is essential, and why boldly transgressive ideas are so important to revitalizing questions that ultimately concern us all: what is to be valued in life and what kind of future do we want? More information on Jonathon can be found here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonathon_Keats We discussed: You Belong to the Universe: Buckminster Fuller and the Future, Oxford University Press, 2016: https://global.oup.com/academic/product/you-belong-to-the-universe-9780199338238?cc=us&lang=en& The Library of the Great Silence: https://www.seti.org/event/seti-live-library-great-silence-and-fermi-paradox The Museum of Future History: https://mofh.net/ The Future Democracies Laboratory: https://projects.cadre.sjsu.edu/democracyproject/ The Plasmodium Consortium: https://sites.hampshire.edu/gallery/the-plasmodium-symposium/

Dr Jennifer Sterling-Folker is the Alan R. Bennett Honors Professor in Political Science at University of Connecticut. Professor Sterling-Folker is an international relations theorist whose writing focuses on theories of international organization and global governance. In this conversation we talk about nationalism and world order, how to avoid the pitfalls of political fatalism, imagined dragons and genuine fire-breathers, and much, much more. Jennifer can be found here: https://polisci.uconn.edu/person/jennifer-sterling-folker/# We discussed: Forthcoming. ‘Unipolarity and Nationalism: The Racialized Legacies of an Anglo-Saxon Unipole.' In: Polarity in International Relations: Past, Present, Future. 2021. ‘Forum: Thinking Theoretically in Unsettled Times: COVID-19 and Beyond.' International Studies Review: https://academic.oup.com/isr/article/23/3/1100/6273326?login=false 2006. ‘Lamarckian with a vengeance: human nature and American international relations theory.' Journal of International Relations and Development: https://link.springer.com/article/10.1057/palgrave.jird.1800092 2005. ‘Realist Global Governance: Revisiting Cave! hic dragones and Beyond.' In: Contending Perspectives on Global Governance: Coherence, Contestation and World Order: https://www.routledge.com/Contending-Perspectives-on-Global-Governance-Coherence-and-Contestation/Ba-Hoffmann/p/book/9780415356756 Susan Strange. 1983. ‘Cave! Hic Dragones: A Critique of Regime Analysis.' International Organization: https://www.jstor.org/stable/2706530?seq=1

Amitav Acharya, Distinguished Professor of International Relations at American University, Washington DC, where he also holds the UNESCO Chair in Transnational Challenges and Governance, is a world-leading authority on Global International Relations, Asian regionalism and constructivism. His celebrated books include The End of the American World Order, among many others. We discussed: The End of American World Order, Polity Press, 2018: https://www.wiley.com/en-us/The+End+of+American+World+Order%2C+2nd+Edition-p-9781509517114 ‘Race and racism in the founding of the modern world order', International Affairs, vol. 98(1), 2022: https://academic.oup.com/ia/article/98/1/23/6484842 ‘After Liberal Hegemony: The Advent of a Multiplex World Order', Ethics and International Affairs, vol. 31(3), 2017: https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/ethics-and-international-affairs/article/after-liberal-hegemony-the-advent-of-a-multiplex-world-order/DBD581C139022B1745154175D2BEC639 Amitav's website can be accessed here: http://amitavacharya.com/ Check out his twitter profile: @AmitavAcharya

Dr Ben Neimark is a Senior Lecturer at the Lancaster University Environment Centre. A human geographer and political ecologist by training, his research focuses on the socio-ecological effects of military supply chains and their wider environmental footprint. We spoke with him in March 2022.

Tune in for a new format this week! After our episode with essayist, speaker and activist, Bayo Akomolafe, we were inspired to see a half hour video response from Claudio on his channel, Consciousness Now. For a while we have wanted to set up a discussion within our growing community, connecting audience and guests and vice-versa. Settle in for a dialogue spanning the eternal question of what 'home' is, has been and should be - utopian visions meeting messy and complex realities. This is a new concept for us and we hope to have more discussions within the growing community going forward. Bayo writes at his website: https://www.bayoakomolafe.net/ And tweets @BayoAkomolafe: https://twitter.com/BayoAkomolafe Claudio's channel can be found here: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCLrbO53XddFUl4gwvKRU6BA

Vandana Shiva is a world-renowned Indian scholar, ecological feminist and activist who over a career spanning decades has emerged as one of the world's most prominent critics of GMOs, intellectual property rights and free trade. She holds a PhD in philosophy of physics and wrote her thesis on ‘Hidden Variables and Locality in Quantum Theory'. Her books include ‘The Violence of Green Revolution' and ‘Monocultures of the Mind'. Dr Shiva is the Founder of Navdanya, a movement for Earth Democracy based on the philosophy of 'Vasudhaiv Kutumbakam' (The Earth as one Family), as well as the Founding Board Member of the International Forum on Globalisation and Diverse Women for Diversity. In this conversation, we talk about non-violence as positive action, hyper-globalization as recolonisation, WIPO patent 060606, what it means to be human, and much more. Vandana writes at Navdanya: https://www.navdanya.org/site/ We discussed: ‘Earth Democracy: Recognising the Rights of Nature, Respecting Human Rights': https://www.navdanya.org/bija-refelections/2021/04/21/earth-democracy-recognising-the-rights-of-nature-respecting-human-rights/ ‘WIPO Patent 060606 – Cryptocurrency System Using Body Activity Data': https://patentscope.wipo.int/search/en/detail.jsf?docId=WO2020060606 ‘Universal Declaration of Rights of Mother Earth: https://www.therightsofnature.org/universal-declaration/ ‘A message for International Day for Biological Diversity, 22nd May 2020': https://navdanyainternational.org/a-message-for-international-day-for-biological-diversity-22nd-may-2020/

Professor Alfred McCoy is the Harrington Professor of History at the University of Wisconsin-Madison. He specialises in the history of the Philippines, US foreign policy, European colonisation of Southeast Asia, illegal drug trade, and Central Intelligence Agency covert operations. In this conversation we talk about run-ins with the CIA, world order and empire over the past 500 years, the duality of raw power and principle, the fading of US empire and the rise of China, as well as the prospects for world order in a context of climate breakdown. Al McCoy can be found here: https://history.wisc.edu/people/mccoy-alfred-w/ His essays for Tom Dispatch are available here: https://tomdispatch.com/authors/alfredmccoy/ We discussed: The Politics of Heroin: CIA Complicity in the Global Drug Trade (1972): https://www.chicagoreviewpress.com/politics-of-heroin--the-products-9781556524837.php A Question of Torture: CIA Interrogation, from the Cold War to the War on Terror (2006): https://history.wisc.edu/publications/a-question-of-torture-cia-interrogation-from-the-cold-war-to-the-war-on-terror/ In the Shadows of the American Century: The Rise and Decline of US Global Power (2017): https://history.wisc.edu/publications/in-the-shadows-of-the-american-century-the-rise-and-decline-of-us-global-power/ To Govern the Globe: World Orders and Catastrophic Change (2021): https://www.haymarketbooks.org/books/1742-to-govern-the-globe

Dave Snowden is the founder and chief officer of Cognitive Edge. He is a pioneer in the field of complexity science and sensemaking, and is perhaps best known for developing the Cynefin framework as a sensemaking device for decision-makers. In this conversation, we talk about Neo-Darwinism, the trouble with specialisation, why democracy is failing, radical sacrifice, and much more. Dave blogs here: https://thecynefin.co/author/dave-snowden/ You can find more out about Cognitive Edge here: https://www.cognitive-edge.com/ We discussed: ‘A Leader's Framework for Decision Making' (with Mary E. Boone), Harvard Business Review, Nov 2007: https://hbr.org/2007/11/a-leaders-framework-for-decision-making

Virginia Haufler is Associate Professor in the Department of Government and Politics at the University of Maryland, College Park. Her research focuses on the changing nature of governance in the global political economy, especially the role of transnational corporations and corporate social responsibility. In this conversation, we talk about private power, the blindspots of IR regime theory, transparency in the extractive industry, and the place of ethics within the capitalist structures of the global economy, and much more. Virginia can be found here: https://gvpt.umd.edu/facultyprofile/haufler/virginia Tweets @VHaufler We discussed: "Corporations, Governance Networks, and Conflict in the Developing World," in The New Power Politics: Networks and Transnational Security Governance, eds. Deborah Avant and Oliver Westerwinter), 2016: https://oxford.universitypressscholarship.com/view/10.1093/acprof:oso/9780190604493.001.0001/acprof-9780190604493 Private Authority and International Affairs (ed with Clare Cutler and Tony Porter), 1999: https://sunypress.edu/Books/P/Private-Authority-and-International-Affairs Regime Theory and International Relations (ed. Volker Rittberger), 1995: https://global.oup.com/academic/product/regime-theory-and-international-relations-9780198280293?cc=ro&lang=en&

Bill McGuire is an academic, activist, broadcaster, blogger and writer of popular science and speculative fiction. Emeritus Professor of Earth Sciences at University College London, Bill cut his teeth researching the link between volcanism and sea-level change and pioneered research on the geological impact of a rapidly changing climate. Over the past two decades, his expertise on natural hazard has been frequently sought out by government and media broadcasters. In more recent years, Bill has devoted much of his time to climate activism, displaying a flair for the cut and thrust of social media, as well as taking aim at the delusions of orthodox climate policy, including the dangers of geoengineering (in his most recent fiction book, Sky Seed). Brace yourselves for a no holds barred account of the climate science, as Bill spells out why dangerous pervasive climate breakdown is now all but inevitable. This is not a counsel of despair though, but rather a call for a serious, sober reckoning with our predicament and what we can still do to mitigate the worst impacts. On the way, we also explore the widening chasm between the climate science and political action, the serious, fun and even therapeutic pleasures of writing speculative fiction, the strange absence of public education on the climate emergency, as well as the importance of speaking up in the face of climate denialism, including among friends and colleagues. Bill tweets @ProfBillMcGuire You can learn more about Bill's work here on his website: http://billmcguire.co.uk/ And read Bill's essays on his Cool Earth column on Substack: https://substack.com/profile/23258461-bill-mcguire Articles we discussed include: ‘An open letter to all climate scientists', 19 July 2021: https://billmcguire.substack.com/p/an-open-letter-to-all-climate-scientists

Jim Rutt is the host of one of our favourite podcasts: the Jim Rutt Show. He is a past chairman of the Santa Fe Institute (SFI) with a long and distinguished career in the California tech community. An avid proponent of complexity science, Jim is currently an SFI Research Fellow working in the scientific study of consciousness and evolutionary artificial intelligence. He is also one of the founders and most prominent advocates for Game B, a community trying to figure out what a viable, better civilization could look like and how to reach it. Jim joins us for a wide-ranging conversation, riffing on ideas from Game B, liquid democracy and the cutting-edge thinking on display in his own podcast series. From the historical contingencies which gave rise to Game A to the great acceleration of the 20th Century, Jim helps us take stock of where we are as a global civilisation, the contours of the civilisational crisis we find ourselves in, and possible exit strategies which do not involve collapsing into a neo-dark age or analogous undesirable states. Along the way we talk game theory, energy justice, the role of universities, complexity science and building “Proto-B” communities above the Dunbar number. Jim tweets @jim_rutt: https://twitter.com/jim_rutt You can find Jim at The Jim Rutt Show: https://www.jimruttshow.com/ Many of Jim's writings are available on Medium: A Journey to GameB (13 Jan 2020): https://medium.com/@memetic007/a-journey-to-gameb-4fb13772bcf3 The Game B Wiki: https://www.gameb.wiki/index.php?title=Main_Page An Introduction to Liquid Democracy (26 Feb 2018): https://medium.com/@memetic007/liquid-democracy-9cf7a4cb7f In Search of the 5th Attractor: Complexity Science Thinking About Real Change for the Better (3 Feb 2017): https://medium.com/@memetic007/fifth-attractor-6d1a54fcda2e

Jacqueline McGlade is Professor of Resilience and Sustainable Development at University College London. She is also the Frank Jackson Foundation Professor of the Environment at Gresham College and Professor at Strathmore University Business School in Kenya. A marine biologist by training, Jacqueline was Chief Scientist and Director of the Science Division of the UN Environment Programme from 2003 to 2013 and before that, served as Executive Director of the European Environment Agency. However, today she is more likely to be found exploring ideas through working with local communities in Kenya than frequenting high-powered meetings at international organisations. Indeed, as you will hear, in a curious twist of fate, Jacqueline became a member of the Maasai tribe in 2016 through marriage to a Maasai chief and has relocated to live near the Maasai Mara Nature Reserve in Kenya. As we explore in our conversation, this life experience gives Jacqueline a unique perspective on the interface between culture, science and politics. Her career has been strongly informed by the complex interplay of data and communication and the ways in which science is filtered through the worldview of the beholder. An early love for languages also played a key role, revealing communication as a portal to mutual understanding across cultural realities. Ultimately, Jacqueline argues for more empathy in science and a willingness among her colleagues to communicate their knowledge in a way which meets people where they are. In honouring our shared humanity in the act of communication, Jacqueline suggests we invite a deeper sense of mutual responsibility and care to naturally arise. Jacqueline tweets @JacquieMcGlade You can learn more about Jacqueline's work here on her UCL webpage: https://www.ucl.ac.uk/bartlett/igp/professor-jacqueline-mcglade And watch Jacqueline's lecture series at Gresham College here: https://www.gresham.ac.uk/watch/?subject=&subcat=&files=&year=&search=mcglade

Bayo Akomolafe is a prolific essayist, speaker and activist, a professor of psychology, a master wordsmith and executive director of the Emergence Network. An acute observer of our troubled times, Bayo has a gift for capturing the awkward confusion of our present predicament in phrases like “the times are urgent, let us slow down.” In this conversation, Bayo invites us to sit with our awkward confusion as we explore vulnerability as strength, the acceleration of history, race and reparations, the “mind forged manacles” of our times, as well as agency in times in crisis, and much, much more. This was a real mind-bending or, more accurately, question-bending conversation, we hope that you enjoy it as much as we did. Bayo Akomolafe writes at his website: https://www.bayoakomolafe.net/ And tweets @BayoAkomolafe: https://twitter.com/BayoAkomolafe Some of the essays that we discussed in this conversation include: • ‘Dear White People': https://www.bayoakomolafe.net/post/dear-white-people • ‘Let's Meet at the Crossroads': https://www.bayoakomolafe.net/post/lets-meet-at-the-crossroads • ‘What Climate Collapse Asks of Us': http://www.emergencenetwork.org/whatclimatecollapseasksofus/ • ‘The Times are Urgent: Let's Slow Down': https://www.bayoakomolafe.net/post/the-times-are-urgent-lets-slow-down • ‘I, Coronavirus. Mother. Monster. Activist': http://www.emergencenetwork.org/icoronavirus/ The Emergence Network website can be found here: http://www.emergencenetwork.org/ You can find out more about his course in ‘postactivism': ‘We Will Dance With Mountains' at this webpage: https://course.bayoakomolafe.net/

Vinay Gupta is a leading figure in the blockchain space, having coordinated the release of the blockchain platform Ethereum in 2015. He is the Founder and CEO of Mattereum, a company which uses the blockchain to eliminate transaction risk from on-chain trade of physical assets. Vinay is also a prolific writer, commentator and futurist, building upon decades of research and strategic expertise across energy policy, defence, disaster relief and infrastructure risk, with stints at the Rocky Mountain Institute, US Department of Defense and an associate fellowship at UCL Institute for Security and Resilience. A proponent of techno-realism, Vinay argues that technology and engineering can contribute to positive social transformation and help deal with resource scarcity. As we explore in this conversation, a radical realism also pervades his politics – with Vinay's trademark acuity and provocative ‘breaking the frame' approach on full display! In a wide-ranging conversation, we discuss why “collapse” is already here and its relationship to income, wealth and power inequality, the historical antecedents to our predicament and why existing governance structures are no longer fit for purpose, as well as what is blocking a credible programme of action on the climate emergency. In a provocative thought experiment, Vinay challenges us to identify the simplest change that can be made to a broken system to get working change. His answer? A radical electoral reform to ensure that the core body politic has a compelling stake in the future. See what you think. Vinay tweets @leashless His company Mattereum can be found here: https://mattereum.com/ For information on his work in the field of humanitarian design: http://myhopeforthe.world/ His most recent book is The Future of Stuff, published in association with Tortoise Media: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Future-Stuff-Vinay-Gupta-ebook/dp/B08B4F5QK3

Robyn Eckersley is Professor and Head of Political Science in the School of Social and Political Sciences, University of Melbourne, Australia where she specialises in environmental governance, politics, political theory and international relations. She was elected as Fellow of the Academy of the Social Sciences in Australia in 2007 and in 2019, she received a Distinguished Scholar Award from the Environmental Studies Section of the International Studies Association. Robyn has been working at the interface of deep ecology, green political theory and international relations scholarship for over two decades. In her 2004 book ‘The Green State', she laid out her argument for a ‘critical political ecology' as a paradigm to navigate the political challenge of ‘greening states', a theme which has continued to animate her work. Robyn has also been a vocal advocate for climate justice in the UN intergovernmental system, a shrewd analyst of the US's role as a swing state in the long history of climate negotiations, and – most recently – begun evaluating the climate emergency movement and its implications for the future of the state and democracy. In this conversation, Robyn helps us take stock of where we are five years after the landmark Paris Agreement. We discuss why current targets are unlikely to cut it unless ambitious concrete action is brought forward to 2030. We probe the imperative of tackling pervasive structural injustices which continue to perpetuate harm upon those most vulnerable to climate extremes, as well as the complex moral terrain posed by the issue of historic responsibility. Switching gears, Robyn revisits her earlier work on the transformation of the state in a context of ecological crisis and some of the opportunities, challenges and contradictions which the current moment throw up, not least the spectacle of the military declaring their green credentials on the battlefield. We also reflect on the enduring value of Robert Cox's seminal distinction between problem-solving and critical theory, and its modification to ‘critical problem-solving' in light of the pressing, pragmatic challenge of transformative change. Robyn closes by reflecting on what deep ecology means for better understanding our relationship between the human and non-human in environmentalism, as well as – riffing on Sarah Parkin's popular book – a call to all young people to be ‘positive deviants' and to insist that everyone “walks the walk” when it comes to the climate emergency. Robyn can be found here: https://findanexpert.unimelb.edu.au/profile/1470-robyn-eckersley She tweets @EckersleyRobyn Publications we discussed include: Robyn Eckersley, ‘Greening states and societies: from transitions to great transformations', Environmental Politics vol. 30(1-2), pp. 245-265. Robyn Eckersley (2017), ‘Geopolitan Democracy in the Anthropocene', Political Studies vol. 65(4), pp. 983-999. Peter Christoff and Robyn Eckersley. 2013. Globalisation and the Environment. Lanham: Rowman and Littlefield. Robyn Eckersley. 2004. The Green State: Rethinking Democracy and Sovereignty. Cambridge: MIT Press. Robyn Eckersley. 1992. Environmentalism and Political Theory: Toward an Ecocentric Approach. State University of New York Press.

Dr Zak Stein is a writer, futurist, and transformative educator working to bring a greater sense of justice and sanity to education. He is also a founding member of The Consilience Project, aimed at improving public sensemaking and dialogue. Zak was educated at Hampshire College and received his PhD from Harvard University, where he studied educational neuroscience, human development, and the philosophy of education. While at Harvard, he also co-founded Lectica, a non-profit organization dedicated to redesigning standardized testing infrastructures. His most recent book, Education in a Time Between Worlds, grapples with the dangers posed by a profound learning and capacity deficit in a time of civilization-wide transformation. From climate change to politics, agriculture to economics, Zak argues that the world we have known is rapidly disappearing and it is now an existential imperative that we transform education systems if we are to survive the planetary crises currently underway. Planetary wellbeing ultimately depends upon schools, technology and society being re-envisioned toward empowering the world's youngest citizens to comprehend and respond appropriately to global challenges of unprecedented size and scope. Zak currently serves as the academic director for the Center for Integral Wisdom, and offers human development and learning science consultations to schools, organizations, and educational technology companies. For more information about The Consilience Project at https://consilienceproject.org/ Zak has published two books: Social Justice and Educational Measurement: http://www.zakstein.org/social-justice-and-educational-measurement-book-release-announcement/ Education in a Time Between Worlds: http://www.zakstein.org/education-in-a-time-between-worlds-book-release/ A range of other publications, including his essay ‘If education is not the answer you are asking the wrong question', are available here: http://www.zakstein.org/publications/

Sophie Harman is Professor of International Politics at Queen May University of London with interests spanning global health, African Agency, film and visual methods, and gender politics. Sophie has pushed the boundaries of International Relations (IR) scholarship more than most, notably through her use of visual mediums to convey the lived experience of those at the receiving end of global health programmes. In 2019, she was nominated for the BAFTA for Outstanding Debut by a British Writer, Director, or Producer for her work on the feature film Pili which tells the story of women living with HIV/AIDS in Tanzania. Sophie has recently published the book Seeing Politics: Film, Visual Method and International Relation and was awarded the Joni Lovenduski Prize for outstanding professional achievement by a mid-career scholar by the Political Science Association (PSA) in 2018. In a wide-ranging conversation, we discuss why visual politics, as well as emotion, are important frontiers for the future of IR scholarship. Sophie reflects on the trials and tribulations of pursuing a film project in a profession not known for risk-taking. Beyond the razmataz of the BAFTA red carpet, we discuss how the film Pili provides a portal into questions of global health, power relations, colonial legacies, and gender inequity. Sophie highlights the importance of storytelling and giving space to those stories which are almost never heard in the corridors of power. Recalling James C. Scott's famous work, Weapons of the Weak, we also discuss how people at the receiving end of global governance programmes make sense of politics and reclaim agency in their dealings with often remote international bureaucracies. Sophie also tackles head on the pathologies of reproducing tired gender narratives in a context of accelerating global health securitization and privatization, as well as why getting the basics right would be a good start for an international sector beset by problems of accountability. And we also find time for a few words on Covid-19. Sophie can be found here: https://www.qmul.ac.uk/politics/staff/profiles/harmansophie.html She tweets @DrSophieHarman Projects and publications we discussed include: The film PILI: Pili lives in rural Tanzania, working the fields for less than $2 a day to feed her two children and struggling to manage her HIV-positive status in secret. Watch the trailer here: https://vimeo.com/192767913 Available to view here: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Pili-Bello-Rashid/dp/B07MJM1LB4 ‘Making of' film blog here: https://notanotheraidsfilm.com/ Seeing Politics: Film, Visual Method and International Relations (McGill-Queen's University Press): https://www.mqup.ca/seeing-politics-products-9780773557314.php ‘Threat not solution: gender, global health security and COVID-19', International Affairs: https://academic.oup.com/ia/article/97/3/601/6180992?login=true

Daniel Schmachtenberger is a social philosopher and founding member of The Consilience Project, aimed at improving public sensemaking and dialogue. The through line of his interests has to do with ways of improving the health and development of individuals and society, with a virtuous relationship between the two as a goal. Towards these ends, he has a particular interest in the topics of catastrophic and existential risk, civilization and institutional decay and collapse as well as progress, collective action problems, social organization theories, and the relevant domains in philosophy and science. Motivated by the belief that advancing collective intelligence and capacity is foundational to the integrity of any civilization, and necessary to address the unique risks we currently face given the intersection of globalization and exponential technology, he has spoken publicly on many of these topics, hoping to popularize and deepen important conversations and engage more people in working towards their solutions. Many of these can be found at http://civilizationemerging.com/media/ In this conversation, we explore why it is now imperative to figure out a whole new world system given the catastrophic risk landscape that we confront. Daniel argues that in the face of exponential curves proliferating across systems – human, technological and geophysical – we need to develop a novel set of solutions for how we coordinate at scale. The task ahead of us is nothing less than to foster a global social, technological and educational zeitgeist, one which can prevent existential risk in a way commensurate to our deepest values for participatory and empowered governance. For more information about The Consilience Project at https://consilienceproject.org/

Dr Patrick Ophuls (who writes under the pen name William Ophuls) is an American political scientist, ecologist, independent scholar and author. He is known for his pioneering role in the modern environmental movement. A prominent voice in the environmental movement since the 1970s, Patrick received his PhD in political science from Yale University in 1973. His 1977 book Ecology and the Politics of Scarcity was awarded the Sprout Prize from the International Studies Association. Subsequent work has sought to bring to public attention some of the ecological, social, and political implications of modern industrial civilization. In his 2011 book, Plato's Revenge: Politics in the Age of Ecology, Patrick argues that political struggle must now urgently focus on making ecology the master science and Gaia the key metaphor of our age. In this conversation, we discuss why we need to stop thinking of ourselves as somehow above or outside the natural systems that support us. We also explore how humanity's efforts to embrace the politics of ecology could well prove to be the defining story of this century if we are to avoid indulging the tragedy of homo (in)sapiens. Patrick's publication include: Immoderate Greatness: Why Civilizations Fail (2012) Plato's Revenge: Politics in the Age of Ecology (2011) Requiem for modern politics: the tragedy of the enlightenment and the challenge of the new millennium (1997) Ecology and the politics of scarcity (1977) Episode image by Raul Lieberwirth: https://www.flickr.com/photos/lanier67/6825685137/

Professor Richard Falk taught at Princeton University Politics department for over 40 years and has published more than 50 books and many articles on global politics and international law. A self-described, “citizen pilgrim”, he decided early on that his career would combine academic work with an ethical obligation to speak out on questions of global and local justice. A prominent voice in the nuclear deproliferation movement, Professor Falk was chair of the Nuclear Age Peace Foundation's Board of Directors until 2012. And in his most prominent role in recent years, in 2008 Professor Falk was appointed UN Special Rapporteur on Palestinian Human Rights by the UN Human Rights Council where he served until 2014. Perhaps less well known, Professor Falk was a key figure in scholarly political debates on world order and systems change through the 1960s and 70s, alongside scholars including Ken Waltz, Hedley Bull, Harold Lasswell and Immanuel Wallerstein. Professor Falk was also one of the first global political scholars to take seriously the ecological, demographic and biosocial aspects of the future of world order, as explored in his 1971 book ‘The Endangered Planet'. We discuss this rich intellectual heritage, what lessons we might excavate from these earlier debates for today, and how the shadow of history looms large over our current challenges, which, while formidable, also present opportunities for revitalising understandings of citizenship in our uniquely globalised civilisation. * We unfortunately experienced some technical problems with the sound in this episode. We hope that you will nevertheless enjoy this conversation. Richard can be found on his website Global Justice in the 21st Century. We discussed the following publications: Public Intellectual: The Life of a Citizen Pilgrim (2021) Twilight of the Nation-State (at a Time of Resurgent Nationalism) (2020) This Endangered Planet: Prospects and Proposals for Human Survival (1971)

Jonathan Rowson is co-founder and Director of Perspectiva. He was previously Director of the Social Brain Centre at the RSA. Jonathan is an applied philosopher with degrees from Oxford, Harvard and Bristol Universities. In a former life he was a chess Grandmaster and British Champion (2004–6) and views the game as a continuing source of insight and inspiration. Towards the end of 2017, Jonathan was awarded an Open Society Foundation (OSF) Fellowship to inquire into the putative crisis in human rights. The essay which resulted – formulated as a letter to the Human Rights Movement – provides a deep and broad reflection into the crisis of human rights as symptomatic of a deeper and broader “meta-crisis:” a crisis in our perception and understanding of the world's challenges. It was brilliant to welcome Jonathan to our first Podclass with students from our MA in Human Rights programme. The conversation gives a flavour of a provocative and insightful essay which provides valuable coordinates for exploring the status of human rights in these perilous times and their enduring relevance to a world defined by global systemic challenges. Jonathan can be found on twitter at: @Jonathan_Rowson The essay ‘Dear Human Rights Movement' is available here. Other recent writings include: Tasting the Pickle: Ten flavours of meta-crisis and the appetite for a new civilisation, February 2021. The Moves That Matter: A Chess Grandmaster on the Game of Life (2019). Bloomsbury Publishing. Bildung in the 21st Century – Why sustainable prosperity depends upon reimagining education, June 2019.

Susan K. Sell is Professor at the School of Regulation and Global Governance (REGNET) at the Australian National University. Susan has been at the forefront of critical international political economy (IPE) scholarship for over two decades. An admirer of earlier critical IPE voices, like Susan Strange, Susan has forged a career shining a light on the dark side of global governance in a world of hyper-globalisation and acquisitive transnational private power. For Susan, it has always been about who wins and who loses within the often opaque workings of the global economy. Her research has applied this lens to powerful effect, particularly in the area of global health. Although critical IPE is experiencing a resurgence of interest, that was not always the case. In a wide-ranging conversation, Susan reflects on being an often lone critical voice during the triumphalist 1990s liberal moment, navigating a discipline which, until recently, was overwhelmingly male, as well as the potential for COVID-19 to serve as a “horrendous opportunity”, and what the future of global private power might look like. Susan can be found on the ANU website. Selection of publications: What COVID-19 Reveals About Twenty-first Century Capitalism: Adversity and Opportunity, 2020 Health under capitalism: a global political economy of structural pathogenesis, 2019 (with Owain D. Williams) Who Governs The Globe? 2010 (with Deborah Avant and Martha Finnemore) TRIPS was never enough: vertical forum shifting, FTAs, ACTA, and TPP, 2011 Private Power, Public Law: The Globalization of Intellectual Property Rights, 2003

The multi-talented Forrest Landry joins us for this podcast episode. A philosopher, writer, researcher, scientist, systems engineer, master woods craftsman and teacher, Forrest combines decades of inquiry into metaphysics and especially the relationship between causation and choice, with deep appreciation of how design and complete system solutions can be used in service to individuals, nature and to the future of humanity. This is definitely a full stack episode! We explore: why asking the right questions is so important, what is a good basis of choice, the critical difference between judgement and discernment, reflexive problem-solving across cultures, the risks posed by geoengineering, and much, much more. Many of Forrests' writings are available on his business website Magic Flight.Com: https://mflb.com/ Forrest and collaborators have launched Ephemeral Group Processing, using technology to facilitate and scale face-to-face conversations: http://egp.community/ Forrest tweets @ForrestLandry19

Scott Williams joins us for a deep dive into what it means to live in right relationship in times of systemic and accelerating risk. With a “rigorous sense of humility and confusion,” Scott helps us understand some of the underlying drivers which have led the human and social to become separated from the underlying reality of the stochastic vitality of living systems, and the consequences of this separation for human relationship, both human-to-human and to nature. Along the way, we explore the systemic function of money, the power of collective narrative, “ways to reallow humans to meet humans,” including in the corridors of political and institutional power, and the role of knowledge in nourishing ourselves and ensuring the widest possible circle of compassion. Scott is the coordinating lead author for Chapter 2 ‘Systemic Risks, the Sendai Framework and the 2030 Agenda' of the 2019 Global Assessment Report on Disaster Risk Reduction issued by the UN. Scott has a long track record working in the area of disaster risk for the UN and other agencies, in both the public and private sector. This experience has led him to explore what it really means to be a Systems Innovator, with current projects looking at how to accelerate climate innovation to a zero-carbon economy within the EU, as well as applying the insights from the 2019 UNDRR report to COVID-19 – available in a series of articles on preventionweb. Scott tweets @Scott42195

Nafeez Ahmed guides us through the intricacies of systems thinking from within and outside the IR Academy, throwing light on the scale of the governance challenge which complex global problems such as the climate crisis pose, the inevitable demise of current systems, and what a new emerging paradigm might look like, one in which we find ways to live together in our diversity and thrive within planetary boundaries. Nafeez is an investigative journalist, founding editor and chief writer for INSURGE intelligence, and ‘System Shift' columnist at VICE's science magazine Motherboard. He is developing a unique form of what he calls “systems journalism” and in the conversation also explore what it means to be a journalists in an age of media hyper-partisanship. He holds a DPhil in International Relations from the University of Sussex and is the author of a number of books, including Failing States, Collapsing Systems: BioPhysical Triggers of Political Violence and A User's Guide to the Crisis of Civilization, which has also been turned into a documentary.

As crucial climate negotiations are postponed to 2021, many wonder whether the world can wait. Echoing calls by the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, our guest today, Farhana Yamin is clear that “we need to stop talking about climate change as a future problem, we really only have a short space of time to start making fundamental changes. The time for action really is now.” Farhana is an internationally recognized environmental lawyer, climate change policy expert and justice activist. She joined us at UCL between 2013 and 2018 as a Visiting Professor at UCL. During this time, she also set up Track 0, an organisation which promotes strategic coalition-building to pressure governments to act. Closer to home, in fact in our very own post code, she is also coordinator of the Camden Council's Think and Do Community Climate and Eco Action pop up. She brings with her a wealth of experience, from serving as an author for the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change to advising the European Commission on how to design the European emissions trading directive, and, in more recent years, negotiating at the UN on behalf of the Marshall Islands, where she has also been a lead proponent of the net zero emissions by 2050 goal in the Paris Agreement. Farhana joined Extinction Rebellion in November 2018 and has taken an active role in non-violent direct action, including gluing herself to Shell's London offices last year. In this wide-ranging conversation, Farhana reflects on her journey to green radicalism and why she believes that more radical action is now required to deliver on the Paris Agreement.

Today we are in conversation with Jordan Hall. Jordan lays bare the multiplicity of issues that emerge from relying on complicated systems to manage complex situations. The conversation elucidates the fatal flaws with the complicated systems currently in place and touches on what solutions could look like, whilst contending with the difficulty in achieving these. Jordan is the executive chair and co-founder of Neurohacker Collective, a company that makes ground-breaking products for health and well-being through complex systems science. He is in his seventeenth year building disruptive technologies. His previous positions include crafting strategy and product for MP3.com, then at InterVU (acquired by Akamai) and then finally in2000 launching and leading the online digital video revolution as founder and CEO of DivX.

Crucial climate negotiations loom in 2021. Despite the incredible disruption caused by COVID-19, the work of the climate policymakers, researchers and activists is not, in any way, on hold. It is important to flag that this interview with one of UCLs leading climatologists was recorded before the COVID-19 pandemic hit in early 2020. Nevertheless, this lively conversation ranging from climate change to green capitalism remains as pertinent today as ever. Mark Maslin FRGS, FRSA is a Professor of Climatology at University College London. His areas of scientific expertise include causes of past and future global climate change and its effects on the global carbon cycle, biodiversity, rainforests and human evolution. He also works on monitoring land carbon sinks using remote sensing and ecological models and international and national climate change policies. In addition to advisory positions with the Global Cool Foundation, the Sopria-Steria Group and the Cheltenham Science Festival Advisory Committee, Mark has written 8 books, and over 30 articles. His popular book “Climate Change: A Very Short Introduction” by Oxford University Press is now in its third edition and has sold over 40,000 copies. Mark was also a co-author of the seminal Lancet report ‘Managing the health effects of climate change' and the Lancet review paper on the health links between Population, Development and Climate Change. You can find more information on Mark's ongoing research and activities here: https://www.geog.ucl.ac.uk/people/academic-staff/mark-maslin

More than 300 human rights defenders were killed in 2019 and many more face regular threats, physical assaults, arrests, harassment, and defamation campaigns. In this episode of Global Governance Futures, we speak with leading human rights expert and advocate Mary Lawlor about the growing list of challenges facing human rights defenders around the world. Mary was recently appointed UN Special Rapporteur on the situation of Human Rights Defenders. As an independent expert, her mandate includes identifying the risks to human rights defenders on the ground and recommending strategies to better protect them. Mary is also currently an Adjunct Professor in the Centre for Social Innovation, School of Business, Trinity College Dublin, and she is the founder and former Executive Director of Front Line Defenders, an organisation that focuses on human rights defenders at risk.

Is global governance failing? This podcast provides a space for dialogue and reflection, with a view to fostering well-informed principles and pragmatic visions for a better tomorrow.