Podcast appearances and mentions of deb dana

Ever wondered why your pain/symptom persists despite countless treatments? The missing piece might be simpler than you think. Tanner and Anne reveal how our tendency to disconnect from uncomfortable bodily sensations actually perpetuates pain and symptom cycles rather than resolving them.Through candid stories about tax scares and zip-lining disasters, they illustrate the dramatic difference between being overwhelmed by sensations versus staying present with them. This isn't just theory—brain scans actually show people with chronic pain have decreased activation in areas that sense the body, while experiencing heightened emotional responses. The result? A brain that misinterprets safe signals as dangerous ones.The hosts break down two essential principles for healing through embodiment: gradual exposure to uncomfortable sensations paired with creating safety signals that keep you connected without becoming overwhelmed. This delicate balance allows your nervous system to recalibrate and recognize when you're truly safe.Whether you've been struggling with persistent pain/symptoms for years or just beginning to notice troubling symptoms, this episode offers practical wisdom for creating a healthier relationship with your body's signals.Ready to start your embodiment journey? The hosts provide free resources to begin practicing these techniques today, guiding you toward a life where sensations no longer trigger fear but offer valuable information for your healing path.This podcast is owned by Pain Psychotherapy Canada Inc. This podcast is produced by Alex Klassen.Together we have a therapy agency called Pain Psychotherapy Canada. Learn more about our work on our website and book in for a free 20 minute consultation with one of our therapists: https://www.painpsychotherapy.ca/Our agency MBody Community provides an in depth course to support you in healing from chronic pain and symptoms: https://www.mbodycommunity.com/We also post daily on instagram: @painpsychotherapyFinally check out Tanner's YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@painpsychotherapyDisclaimer: The information provided by Anne and Tanner on this podcast is for general informational and educational purposes only and is not a substitute for professional advice, psychotherapy, or counselling. It you choose to utilize any of the education, strategies, or techniques in this podcast you are doing so at your own risk. Education and techniques discussed in this Podcast originate from Polyvagal Theory, Pain Reprocessing Therapy, Somatic Experiencing, and Emotional Awareness and Expression Therapy. Reference: Peter Levine, Deb Dana, Dr. Porges, Pain Reprocessing Therapy Center, Alan Gordon, Dr. Schubiner, and Dr. Lumley.

Make peace with the difficult parts of your personality.   Dr. Richard Schwartz is a contemporary psychotherapist, PhD in marriage and family therapy. He founded the Internal Family Systems Model (IFS) therapy system and has authored many books, most recently: The Internal Family Systems Workbook.    In this episode we talk about: What Internal Family Systems (IFS) is The relationship between buddhism and IFS How to make peace with our parts without a therapist in the room  Dan volunteers as a guinea pig to show what it's like to work with your parts The definition of love The link between IFS and psychedelics   Related Episodes: How (and Why) to Hug Your Inner Dragons | Richard Schwartz How to Get Out of Your Head | Willa Blythe Baker Kryptonite for the Inner Critic | Kristin Neff Self-Compassion Ain't Always Soft | Kristin Neff The Voice in Your Head | Ethan Kross The Science Of Burnout — And How To Recharge From Stress | Kristin Neff and Christopher Germer The Science of Emotion Regulation: How It Impacts Health, Performance, and Relationships. | Ethan Kross Lessons From the World's Longest Scientific Study of Happiness | Dr. Robert Waldinger The Art of Growing Up, Jerry Colonna The Art and Science of the World's Gooiest Cliche | Barbara Fredrickson   Sign up for Dan's newsletter here Follow Dan on social: Instagram, TikTok Ten Percent Happier online bookstore Subscribe to our YouTube Channel Our favorite playlists on: Anxiety, Sleep, Relationships, Most Popular Episodes   Additional Resources:  The Internal Family Systems Workbook is part of the new Sounds True Inner Workbooks series, which currently includes The Nervous System Workbook by Deb Dana and The Healing Anxiety Workbook by Sheryl Lisa Finn, with more titles planned.

Episode OverviewIn this episode of Spiral Deeper, our host, Gaby Azorsky, speaks with Deb Dana. Deb Dana is a clinician, consultant, author, and international lecturer on polyvagal theory-informed work with trauma survivors and is the leading translator of this scientific work to the public and mental health professionals. A founding member of the Polyvagal Institute, Deb developed the signature Rhythm of Regulation® Clinical Training Series: The Science of Feeling Safe Enough To Fall in Love with Life and Take the Risks of Living. By understanding and learning about the nervous system, Deb Dana has created the Rhythm of Regulation® to help humans resolve the impact of trauma in our lives so we may fall in love with life. Deb's work shows how an understanding of Polyvagal Theory is applicable across the board to relationships, mental health, and trauma. Deb believes that we all benefit when we have a basic understanding of the ways the nervous system works and learn how to become active operators of this essential system. Following this passion has led her to offering workshops in partnership with groups and communities outside of the clinical arena - and bringing the Polyvagal perspective to the ordinary, and sometimes extraordinary, experiences of daily living.Together, they dive into rhythms of life, polyvagal theory and her work, our nervous systems, the organizing principles of neuroception, hierarchy, and co-regulation, and more. They also talk about attachment and attunement, safe others to feel nourished, what it means to be regulated as friends/partners/parents, and some ways to start resourcing ourselves to be able to be with what is. Gaby highly recommends this episode if you would like to begin to better understand how our nervous systems function unconsciously, and how we can learn to listen and co-regulate with ourselves and with each other to create lives that are more joyful, grounded, and resilient. Thank you for joining us, and enjoy the episode!To celebrate the growth and magic of Spiral Deeper (and the launch of Season 3!), I am hosting a giveaway with some of my favorite brands. The winner will receive: 1 planner from In Flow, 1 Anxiety Support bundle with Reishi and Lion's Mane from Rainbo Mushrooms, 3 triangle soaps from Wild Lather, 1 copy of the vintage collectors book Country Women with a little prayer bell from the small shop, The Bell up in Mendocino, 1 beaded healing mat for your altar made by Elle McDaniels, and 1 Ritual Rainforest Serum by Earth Archive. To enter: subscribe to the podcast, leave a written review on Apple Podcasts, and share Spiral Deeper on Instagram by tagging Gaby (@gaby.azorsky) and @spiral.deeper in your IG Stories.Special OfferCODE - SPIRALOFFLOWERS for 20% off your first month in The Flower Portal!Connect and Work with GabyInspiring the connection between Heaven and Earth through Reiki, Tarot, Folk herbalism, Clairvoyance, and Meditation. Together, we co-create harmony, clarity, and alignment with your True Essence. I'd love to support you!Visit my website to learn more: gabyazorsky.comFollow me on Instagram: @gaby.azorskyNewsletter - Sign Up HereBook a 1:1 Session: Book HereJoin My Membership, The Flower Portal: Learn MoreWith Spiral DeeperWebsite - Spiral Deeper PodcastInstagram - @spiral.deeperWith Our Guest, Deb DanaWebsite - https://www.rhythmofregulation.com/CreditsSpecial thanks to…Music - Connor HayesSpiral Deeper Icon - Kami MarchandCollaborate with UsInterested in advertising or collaborating with Spiral Deeper? Email gabyazorsky@gmail.com for packages and details.Support the ShowPlease rate, review, and subscribe wherever you listen - it means so much. Be sure to tag @spiral.deeper if you share; thank you for your support!

Your nervous system might be stuck in a state of high alert, creating very real pain and symptoms even when there's no physical damage. In this second part of our exploration into neuroplastic pain, we reveal the sensitization factors that make chronic symptoms more likely to develop.We break down how chronic nervous system dysregulation—whether you're stuck in states of fight, flight, freeze, or fawn—creates the perfect conditions for neuroplastic symptoms to emerge. High-intensity living patterns like perfectionism, people-pleasing, and excessive worry aren't just personality traits but coping mechanisms that keep your system on constant alert. Conversely, low-intensity patterns of disconnection and isolation sensitize your system through understimulation.Research shows people with histories of childhood adversity or trauma are 2.7 times more likely to develop conditions like chronic widespread pain, fibromyalgia, and IBS. We emphasize it's not about the size of traumatic events but how your unique nervous system responded to them. Even highly sensitive individuals can experience profound effects from events others might consider minor.We also explore two often-overlooked trauma types: sensitization trauma (when developing symptoms becomes traumatic itself) and medical trauma (from negative healthcare experiences). Both perpetuate pain cycles by creating additional layers of nervous system dysregulation.Finally, we discuss how negative beliefs about your body being "broken" or "permanently damaged" increase pain sensitivity. Understanding these factors isn't about assigning blame but creating space for recognition and validation—a crucial first step toward healing.You don't need to match every criterion for your symptoms to be neuroplastic, and your belief that healing is possible can grow over time. By recognizing these patterns and gathering your own evidence, you're already beginning the journey of unlearning chronic pain and reclaiming your life.This podcast is owned by Pain Psychotherapy Canada Inc. This podcast is produced by Alex Klassen.Together we have a therapy agency called Pain Psychotherapy Canada. Learn more about our work on our website and book in for a free 20 minute consultation with one of our therapists: https://www.painpsychotherapy.ca/Our agency MBody Community provides an in depth course to support you in healing from chronic pain and symptoms: https://www.mbodycommunity.com/We also post daily on instagram: @painpsychotherapyFinally check out Tanner's YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@painpsychotherapyDisclaimer: The information provided by Anne and Tanner on this podcast is for general informational and educational purposes only and is not a substitute for professional advice, psychotherapy, or counselling. It you choose to utilize any of the education, strategies, or techniques in this podcast you are doing so at your own risk. Education and techniques discussed in this Podcast originate from Polyvagal Theory, Pain Reprocessing Therapy, Somatic Experiencing, and Emotional Awareness and Expression Therapy. Reference: Peter Levine, Deb Dana, Dr. Porges, Pain Reprocessing Therapy Center, Alan Gordon, Dr. Schubiner, and Dr. Lumley.

There are certain moments that never leave you—the sight of your child turning blue, the smell of hospital-grade hand sanitizer, the feeling of helplessness as doctors take over. Medical trauma doesn't just happen to our kids. It happens to us too.In this episode, therapist Rosey Schaefermeyer joins us for a deep dive into how medical trauma shapes parents, how it lingers in our bodies and minds, and why it's so easy to feel stuck in survival mode. Rosey shares how trauma builds on itself, why some moments become impossible to shake, and what parents can do to move forward while still being present for their children.If you've ever wondered why a single smell or sound can send you spiraling and how you can break this harrowing cycle, this episode is for you. Links:Get a copy of Anchored by Deb Dana.Find a trauma-informed therapist with Amanda Griffith-Atkins' therapist directory.Listen to Ep 25 on EMDR Therapy with Rosey.Listen to Ep 138 on how to find a trauma-informed therapist.Fill out our contact form to join upcoming discussion groups!Follow us on Instagram @the_rare_life!Donate to the podcast or Contact me about sponsoring an episode.Follow the Facebook page.Join the Facebook group Parents of Children with Rare Conditions.Access the transcript on the website here.And if you love this podcast, please leave us a rating or review in your favorite podcast app!

How do you know when your chronic pain/symptoms are neuroplastic rather than structural? This question plagues countless people, who often find themselves caught between conflicting medical opinions, inconclusive test results, and treatments that provide only temporary relief.In this enlightening first installment of a two-part series, Tanner Murtaugh and Anne Hampson break down the concrete criteria that help identify neuroplastic pain and symptoms. They share that neuroplastic pain/symptoms occur when your brain and nervous system remain stuck in a state of danger despite no structural damage in your body - and importantly, you don't need to meet all criteria to benefit from a neuroplastic approach.The hosts walk through the first category of evidence: when pain doesn't make physical sense. From symptoms that originate during stressful times to pain that worsens with difficult emotions, from inconsistent symptom patterns to pain that spreads and migrates through the body - these are all powerful clues pointing toward neuroplastic mechanisms. They explain why triggers disconnected from the body (like weather or certain environments), delayed onset pain, and symptoms without injury are particularly telling.Tanner and Anne weave personal experiences throughout, sharing how Tanner's own pain coincided with major life transitions, and how they've observed these patterns across hundreds of clients. They offer reassurance that while identifying neuroplastic components can feel overwhelming, approaching the assessment with curiosity rather than fear is key.This episode provides invaluable guidance if you've tried numerous treatments without lasting improvement or received diagnoses that don't fully explain your symptoms. Listen now to gain clarity and hope as you begin unraveling whether your persistent pain/symptoms might be treatable through neuroplastic approaches.Ready to explore how your brain might be generating your symptoms? Tune in next week when they tackle the second category: sensitization factors that make your nervous system more susceptible to neuroplastic pain.This podcast is owned by Pain Psychotherapy Canada Inc. This podcast is produced by Alex Klassen.Together we have a therapy agency called Pain Psychotherapy Canada. Learn more about our work on our website and book in for a free 20 minute consultation with one of our therapists: https://www.painpsychotherapy.ca/Our agency MBody Community provides an in depth course to support you in healing from chronic pain and symptoms: https://www.mbodycommunity.com/We also post daily on instagram: @painpsychotherapyFinally check out Tanner's YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@painpsychotherapyDisclaimer: The information provided by Anne and Tanner on this podcast is for general informational and educational purposes only and is not a substitute for professional advice, psychotherapy, or counselling. It you choose to utilize any of the education, strategies, or techniques in this podcast you are doing so at your own risk. Education and techniques discussed in this Podcast originate from Polyvagal Theory, Pain Reprocessing Therapy, Somatic Experiencing, and Emotional Awareness and Expression Therapy. Reference: Peter Levine, Deb Dana, Dr. Porges, Pain Reprocessing Therapy Center, Alan Gordon, Dr. Schubiner, and Dr. Lumley.

In this episode, Gina shares the third and final part of her interview with Deb Dana, LCSW, author of The Glimmer Journal. This episode will teach you how to take advantage of your innate capacity to heal by delivering powerful signals of safety and joy to your nervous system. Listen in and start finding more glimmers and feeling better today! Learn more about Deb Dana's work at http://rhythmofregulation.com The Glimmers Journal https://amzn.to/3Dok3F4 Share your Glimmers with us https://ginaryan.gumroad.com/l/cvCTD Please visit our Sponsor Page to find all the links and codes for our awesome sponsors! https://www.theanxietycoachespodcast.com/sponsors/ Thank you for supporting The Anxiety Coaches Podcast. FREE MUST-HAVE RESOURCE FOR Calming Your Anxious Mind 10-Minute Body-Scan Meditation for Anxiety Anxiety Coaches Podcast Group Coaching link ACPGroupCoaching.com To learn more, go to: Website https://www.theanxietycoachespodcast.com Join our Group Coaching Full or Mini Membership Program Learn more about our One-on-One Coaching What is anxiety? Find even more peace and calm with our Supercast premium access membership: For $5 a month, all episodes are ad-free! https://anxietycoaches.supercast.com/ Here's what's included for $5/month: ❤ New Ad-Free episodes every Sunday and Wednesday ❤ Access to the entire Ad-free back-catalog with over 600 episodes ❤ Premium meditations recorded with you in mind ❤ And more fun surprises along the way! All this in your favorite podcast app! Chapters 0:42 Welcome to the Conversation 1:18 Exploring the Glimmer Practice 4:04 The Importance of Sharing Glimmers 5:14 Organizing Your Glimmer Moments 7:12 Creating Community Through Glimmers 9:32 Building a Glimmer Intention 13:46 Befriending Your Nervous System 16:03 Spreading the Glimmer Concept 18:26 The Ripple Effect of Glimmers 19:23 Where to Find More Resources Summary In this episode of the Anxiety Coaches Podcast, I dive back into a captivating conversation with Deb Dana, whose insights into anxiety regulation and the concept of glimmers truly enrich our understanding of mental wellness. This marks the third installment of our discussion, and for those who missed the previous episodes, I highly encourage listening to them for foundational insights that set the stage for our current exploration. We kick off the episode by discussing the simplicity yet profound impact of the glimmer practice. Deb outlines a straightforward three-step approach: See, Stop, Appreciate. The 'See' encourages us to recognize a glimmer moment in our lives, which could be as simple as witnessing a beautiful rainbow or noticing the soothing sound of birds. I share my own recent experience with a glimmer, highlighting how these moments resonate deeply within our bodies and minds, igniting feelings of joy and wonder. The next step, 'Stop,' prompts us to pause and acknowledge these glimmers instead of passing by; we often forget to appreciate the beauty around us. Deb emphasizes the importance of letting these glimmer moments fill us for just a few seconds, enriching our daily experiences. Following this appreciation, we delve into the 'Appreciate' stage, which encourages marking these moments in various ways, such as journaling or sharing them with a 'glimmer buddy.' This sharing cultivates connections with others, reinforcing the joy and beauty found in these little sparks of life. #Anxiety #NervousSystemRegulation #PolyvagalTheory #Glimmers #Mindfulness #SelfCare #MentalHealth #Resilience #Wellbeing #Connection #Community #DebDana #Journaling #EmbodiedExperience #StressManagement #EmotionalRegulation #Gratitude #Meditation #GlimmerPractice #ACP #GinaRyan #AnxietyCoachesPodcast Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

The powerful connection between OCD patterns and chronic pain might be the missing puzzle piece in your healing journey. Tanner and Anne dive deep into how obsessive thinking and compulsive behaviors fuel neuroplastic symptoms, creating a cycle that keeps pain and symptoms alive.You'll discover why that constant symptom checking, endless research, and anxious monitoring actually reinforce your brain's pain circuits rather than solving the problem. With vulnerability and humor, the hosts share their own experiences with OCD tendencies—from Tanner's shoulder-testing ritual to Anne's encounters with health anxiety—and how these patterns operated both before and during their pain experiences.The solution? Cultivating indifference. But don't roll your eyes just yet! This counterintuitive approach isn't about ignoring your pain or pretending it doesn't exist. Instead, it's about starving pain of the attention that keeps it thriving. The hosts offer practical, actionable strategies for breaking free from obsessive patterns: naming your symptoms with silly names, recognizing when your brain is trying to help (but making things worse), and—perhaps most importantly—giving your brain something valuable to focus on besides your symptoms.Whether you've been diagnosed with OCD or simply recognize some of these patterns in your relationship with chronic pain, this episode provides a compassionate roadmap for change. Progress isn't linear, and even small shifts toward indifference represent significant healing. Ready to loosen pain's grip on your attention and reclaim your life? This conversation shows you how.This podcast is owned by Pain Psychotherapy Canada Inc. This podcast is produced by Alex Klassen.Together we have a therapy agency called Pain Psychotherapy Canada. Learn more about our work on our website and book in for a free 20 minute consultation with one of our therapists: https://www.painpsychotherapy.ca/Our agency MBody Community provides an in depth course to support you in healing from chronic pain and symptoms: https://www.mbodycommunity.com/We also post daily on instagram: @painpsychotherapyFinally check out Tanner's YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@painpsychotherapyDisclaimer: The information provided by Anne and Tanner on this podcast is for general informational and educational purposes only and is not a substitute for professional advice, psychotherapy, or counselling. It you choose to utilize any of the education, strategies, or techniques in this podcast you are doing so at your own risk. Education and techniques discussed in this Podcast originate from Polyvagal Theory, Pain Reprocessing Therapy, Somatic Experiencing, and Emotional Awareness and Expression Therapy. Reference: Peter Levine, Deb Dana, Dr. Porges, Pain Reprocessing Therapy Center, Alan Gordon, Dr. Schubiner, and Dr. Lumley.

In today's episode, Gina shares part two of her interview with Deb Dana, LCSW, clinician and author who has applied polyvagal theory to help clients suffering with complex trauma and other anxiety related problems. Deb shares more of her own story and wisdom in this part of her interview. Listen in for actionable insights you can apply in your own journey healing from anxiety! Learn more about Deb Dana's work at http://rhythmofregulation.com The Glimmers Journal https://amzn.to/3Dok3F4 Share your Glimmers with us https://ginaryan.gumroad.com/l/cvCTD Please visit our Sponsor Page to find all the links and codes for our awesome sponsors! https://www.theanxietycoachespodcast.com/sponsors/ Thank you for supporting The Anxiety Coaches Podcast. FREE MUST-HAVE RESOURCE FOR Calming Your Anxious Mind 10-Minute Body-Scan Meditation for Anxiety Anxiety Coaches Podcast Group Coaching link ACPGroupCoaching.com To learn more, go to: Website https://www.theanxietycoachespodcast.com Join our Group Coaching Full or Mini Membership Program Learn more about our One-on-One Coaching What is anxiety? Find even more peace and calm with our Supercast premium access membership: For $5 a month, all episodes are ad-free! https://anxietycoaches.supercast.com/ Here's what's included for $5/month: ❤ New Ad-Free episodes every Sunday and Wednesday ❤ Access to the entire Ad-free back-catalog with over 600 episodes ❤ Premium meditations recorded with you in mind ❤ And more fun surprises along the way! All this in your favorite podcast app! Chapters 0:43 Welcome Back to the Podcast 2:01 Finding Calm Amidst Anxiety 5:18 Organizing Energy for Regulation 8:15 The Power of Micro Moments 10:59 Discovering Glimmers in Life 13:37 Understanding Glimmers and Challenges 15:34 Building a Practice Around Glimmers 16:54 Reflections and Goodbyes Summary In this episode, I continue my enlightening conversation with Deb Dana, a well-respected expert on the polyvagal theory and its practical applications in managing anxiety and nervous system regulation. Building upon our previous discussion, we delve deeper into the profound understanding that our nervous systems inherently seek regulation and safety. Deb passionately emphasizes that understanding our biology and its connection to anxiety can alleviate feelings of self-blame during moments of distress—it's not about being broken, but rather recognizing the natural responses of our body. We explore effective and approachable strategies for moving from states of high anxiety or stress back to a place of calm. Deb presents a compelling perspective that our nervous systems are knowledgeable and capable of guiding us back to balance, provided we are willing to partner with them rather than fight against their natural impulses. We discuss practical steps that individuals can take to channel overwhelming energy in positive, constructive ways. Through gentle shaping and organizing of this energy, Deb highlights the importance of viewing anxiety not as a debilitating condition, but as a natural signal that calls for attention and self-care. Throughout our conversation, we underline the significance of personalized practices in regulating our nervous systems, which may include movement, music, or even spending time in nature. The concept of a personal "menu" of calming strategies is introduced, encouraging listeners to discover what resonates with their unique systems, as there is no one-size-fits-all approach to self-care. Deb underscores the vital role of "micro moments". #anxiety #nervoussystem #regulation #polyvagaltheory #glimmers #mentalhealth #selfcare #mindfulness #healing #podcast #anxietyrelief #stressmanagement #emotionalregulation #wellbeing #mentalwellness #traumainformed #resilience #selfregulation #innerpeace #neuroscience #copingskills #mindbodyconnection #personaldevelopment #healthpodcast #podcastinterview Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In today's episode, Gina interviews Deb Dana, LCSW, a clinician and author who has implemented polyvagal theory to help heal individuals suffering with complex trauma. Polyvagal theory is highly applicable to individuals suffering with anxiety and Deb's knowledge and experience shine through in this interview to help listeners learn about its core concepts. Listen in today and begin to feel safe again! Learn more about Deb Dana's work at http://rhythmofregulation.com The Glimmers Journal https://amzn.to/3Dok3F4 Share your Glimmers with us https://ginaryan.gumroad.com/l/cvCTD Please visit our Sponsor Page to find all the links and codes for our awesome sponsors! https://www.theanxietycoachespodcast.com/sponsors/ Thank you for supporting The Anxiety Coaches Podcast. FREE MUST-HAVE RESOURCE FOR Calming Your Anxious Mind 10-Minute Body-Scan Meditation for Anxiety Anxiety Coaches Podcast Group Coaching link ACPGroupCoaching.com To learn more, go to: Website https://www.theanxietycoachespodcast.com Join our Group Coaching Full or Mini Membership Program Learn more about our One-on-One Coaching What is anxiety? Find even more peace and calm with our Supercast premium access membership: For $5 a month, all episodes are ad-free! https://anxietycoaches.supercast.com/ Here's what's included for $5/month: ❤ New Ad-Free episodes every Sunday and Wednesday ❤ Access to the entire Ad-free back-catalog with over 600 episodes ❤ Premium meditations recorded with you in mind ❤ And more fun surprises along the way! All this in your favorite podcast app! Chapters 0:42 Welcome to the Podcast 1:58 Exploring Glimmer's Journal 8:04 Understanding Polyvagal Theory 12:13 The Nervous System Explained 15:38 Co-Regulation and Connection 17:14 Conclusion and Next Steps Summary In this episode of the Anxiety Coaches Podcast, host Gina Ryan welcomes special guest Deb Dana, a licensed clinical social worker, clinician, consultant, and leading expert on complex trauma, who specializes in Polyvagal Theory. Deb Dana is not only a respected author of several influential books, including "Polyvagal Prompts" and "Polyvagal Exercises for Safety and Connection," but she is also a co-editor of "Clinical Applications of the Polyvagal Theory" with Dr. Stephen Porges. The discussion centers around her new book, "Glimmer's Journal," which encourages readers to reflect on the small moments that foster joy, safety, and connection—core themes that resonate deeply with the podcast's mission. Gina dives straight into Deb's journey, highlighting how she encountered Dr. Porges' work and realized the vital role the body and nervous system play in psychotherapy. Deb recounts the pivotal moment when she first read Dr. Porges' book, likening it to finding a missing piece of the puzzle in her understanding of the human experience. She shares how her initial outreach led to a collaborative workshop with Dr. Porges, which opened the door for her to incorporate Polyvagal Theory into clinical practice and ultimately inspired the tools and frameworks she has developed. The conversation explores key concepts of Polyvagal Theory, particularly the significance of safety and the role of the nervous system in our daily lives. Deb explains the concept of neuroception, describing how our nervous systems constantly assess safety and danger based on both internal cues—such as physical sensations and emotional states—and external cues from our environment and interactions with others. She emphasizes that an understanding of these dynamics can empower individuals to discern their feelings of anxiety and recognize them as adaptive survival responses rather than indications of personal failure. #mentalwellness #selfcare #wellbeing #emotionalhealth #innerpeace #healing #resilience #mindbodyconnection #polyvagalinformed #polyvagalpractice #panicattacks #overwhelm #copingskills #ACP #AnxietyCoachesPodcast #GinaRyan Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

A recent report from Gallup found that one in five people across the world said they felt lonely on a daily basis. People are lonely in every aspect of their lives — at home, in social settings, and at work. Researcher Constance Hadley joins us to discuss isolation at work. Then, losing your job can be devastating and overwhelming. Career coach Eliana Goldstein shares some advice for what to do after you've lost your job. And, when you're feeling anxious, reach for glimmers— the tiny things in your day that bring you joy. It could be as simple as holding beach stones, listening to birds or snuggling with a pet. Author and licensed clinical social worker Deb Dana tells us more.Learn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy

Do you feel as if life is passing you by as you rush through one day after another, missing the glimmers that make it worthwhile? I've found that many people feel as if they are barely living – they wake up, work, eat, and sleep – a hum-drum cycle that is repeated joylessly day after day. And, if you add pressure, stress, anxiety–and more stress – into the mix, life can feel purposeless and overwhelming. But hope is on the way! Research shows that you CAN create new, uplifting cycles that foster well-being simply by noticing life's little joys. Join me and renowned mental health expert Deb Dana for a deep dive into the gentle, life-changing power of glimmers. Topics discussed include neurobiology, co-regulation, trauma, complex trauma, dysregulation, regulation, sympathetic nervous system, parasympathetic nervous system, relationships, triggers, glimmers, overwhelm, anxiety, stress, hope, Polyvagal Theory, Stephen Porges, autonomic nervous system, patterns of protection, fight-flight response, safety, connection, neuroception, and healing. Please note that this episode contains sensitive trauma-related material; listener discretion is advised. Emergency Assistance Note: If you or someone you know needs immediate support, please call your emergency services. In the US, 24/7 help is available by calling "911" or "988" (Suicide and Crisis Hotline). Support/informational links are in the show notes.Books by Dr. Carla Manly:Date Smart: Transform Your Relationships and Love FearlesslyJoy From Fear: Create the Life of Your Dreams by Making Fear Your Friend Aging Joyfully: A Woman's Guide to Optimal Health, Relationships, and Fulfillment for Her 50s and BeyondThe Joy of Imperfect Love: The Art of Creating Healthy, Securely Attached Relationships Connect with Dr. Carla Manly:Website: https://www.drcarlamanly.comInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/drcarlamanly/Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/drcarlamanly/Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/drcarlamanlyLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/carla-marie-manly-8682362b/YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@dr.carlamariemanly8543TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@dr_carla_manlyBook by Deb Dana:Glimmers Journal: Reflect on the Small Moments That Bring You Joy, Safety, and ConnectionConnect with Deb Dana:Website: https://www.rhythmofregulation.com/ Love the show? Subscribe, rate, review, and share! https://drcarlamanly.com/

In today's illuminating episode, we dive into the transformative concept of self-parenting—an essential practice that feeds our emotional needs while promoting healing from chronic pain and symptoms. With an engaging blend of personal anecdotes and professional insights, we unravel why many struggle with self-compassion and what it looks like to be your own nurturing parent. Through our candid discussion, we explore how our childhood experiences shape our present-day responses to stress and emotions, often leading us to neglect our needs. This episode highlights the importance of being attuned to your body's signals, exploring how self-awareness can drastically improve emotional regulation and ease chronic pain symptoms. We share practical advice on embracing a compassionate inner dialogue, allowing for moments of rest, and challenging the intense pressures of everyday life. Join us as we discuss the art of parenting ourselves, redefining what it means to give love and care to the inner child within. By reflecting on our past and actively nurturing our present selves, we can open doors to healing. Listen and discover the profound impacts of self-parenting—it's more than just a concept; it's a pathway to well-being. Don't forget to subscribe, share your thoughts, and leave a review!This podcast is owned by Pain Psychotherapy Canada Inc. This podcast is produced by Alex Klassen.Together we have a therapy agency called Pain Psychotherapy Canada. Learn more about our work on our website and book in for a free 20 minute consultation with one of our therapists: https://www.painpsychotherapy.ca/Our agency MBody Community provides an in depth course to support you in healing from chronic pain and symptoms: https://www.mbodycommunity.com/We also post daily on instagram: @painpsychotherapyFinally check out Tanner's YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@painpsychotherapyDisclaimer: The information provided by Anne and Tanner on this podcast is for general informational and educational purposes only and is not a substitute for professional advice, psychotherapy, or counselling. It you choose to utilize any of the education, strategies, or techniques in this podcast you are doing so at your own risk. Education and techniques discussed in this Podcast originate from Polyvagal Theory, Pain Reprocessing Therapy, Somatic Experiencing, and Emotional Awareness and Expression Therapy. Reference: Peter Levine, Deb Dana, Dr. Porges, Pain Reprocessing Therapy Center, Alan Gordon, Dr. Schubiner, and Dr. Lumley.

Parenting and chronic pain/illness—two life challenges that seem impossible to juggle, right? Join us, Tanner Murtaugh and Anne Hampson, as we unravel the intertwined complexities of nurturing our children while healing from neuroplastic pain and symptoms. Reflect on Tanner's journey from pre-parenthood healing to the new stressors and joys children bring into the mix. For those without kids, we encourage you to consider your own unique stressors and their impact on your healing process. Through our personal stories, you'll gain insights into managing these challenges, whether you're still on the path to recovery or have already found your way back to health.Maintaining your well-being doesn't stop at recovery—it requires ongoing effort, especially when parenting. We share practical strategies to sustain your healing, emphasizing the importance of creating a buffer against life's endless demands. From emotional processing to regulating your nervous system, we highlight how prioritizing self-care and social connections can help you keep a balanced life amidst the chaos of work, family, and societal pressures. Rediscover your personal interests and reclaim your identity with activities like yoga, qigong, or even equine therapy, all while navigating the expectations placed on you as a parent. Let's redefine self-care and make it a priority, not a luxury.This podcast is owned by Pain Psychotherapy Canada Inc. This podcast is produced by Alex Klassen.Together we have a therapy agency called Pain Psychotherapy Canada. Learn more about our work on our website and book in for a free 20 minute consultation with one of our therapists: https://www.painpsychotherapy.ca/Our agency MBody Community provides an in depth course to support you in healing from chronic pain and symptoms: https://www.mbodycommunity.com/We also post daily on instagram: @painpsychotherapyFinally check out Tanner's YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@painpsychotherapyDisclaimer: The information provided by Anne and Tanner on this podcast is for general informational and educational purposes only and is not a substitute for professional advice, psychotherapy, or counselling. It you choose to utilize any of the education, strategies, or techniques in this podcast you are doing so at your own risk. Education and techniques discussed in this Podcast originate from Polyvagal Theory, Pain Reprocessing Therapy, Somatic Experiencing, and Emotional Awareness and Expression Therapy. Reference: Peter Levine, Deb Dana, Dr. Porges, Pain Reprocessing Therapy Center, Alan Gordon, Dr. Schubiner, and Dr. Lumley.

Imagine navigating the complexities of a challenging week marked by your child's illness and a sudden power outage. That's precisely what we faced recently, and it highlighted how stress can make life seem all the more serious. Join us as we unpack personal experiences and the often unspoken issue of medical trauma—a significant form of trauma that's largely overlooked in the healthcare system. We shine a light on its profound impact on individuals and families, including our own journey, emphasizing how trauma is not merely the event but the lingering nervous system response that can exacerbate chronic pain and illness.This episode takes you through the emotional and physical rollercoaster experienced before, during, and after medical procedures. We delve into common reactions like fight, flight, and freeze, and how these can manifest as anxiety or dissociation, particularly for those battling chronic pain. We explore the cycle of anxiety and heightened responses that can make even routine medical appointments daunting. Discover the critical role of psychological preparation in preventing or reducing medical trauma and why recognizing symptoms is crucial for effective healing. Tune in to better understand the complex web between trauma and delayed recovery and how to navigate it for a healthier future.This podcast is owned by Pain Psychotherapy Canada Inc. This podcast is produced by Alex Klassen.Together we have a therapy agency called Pain Psychotherapy Canada. Learn more about our work on our website and book in for a free 20 minute consultation with one of our therapists: https://www.painpsychotherapy.ca/Our agency MBody Community provides an in depth course to support you in healing from chronic pain and symptoms: https://www.mbodycommunity.com/We also post daily on instagram: @painpsychotherapyFinally check out Tanner's YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@painpsychotherapyDisclaimer: The information provided by Anne and Tanner on this podcast is for general informational and educational purposes only and is not a substitute for professional advice, psychotherapy, or counselling. It you choose to utilize any of the education, strategies, or techniques in this podcast you are doing so at your own risk. Education and techniques discussed in this Podcast originate from Polyvagal Theory, Pain Reprocessing Therapy, Somatic Experiencing, and Emotional Awareness and Expression Therapy. Reference: Peter Levine, Deb Dana, Dr. Porges, Pain Reprocessing Therapy Center, Alan Gordon, Dr. Schubiner, and Dr. Lumley.

Deb Dana, LCSW, is a clinician, consultant, author, and international lecturer on polyvagal theory-informed work with trauma survivors and is the leading translator of this scientific work to the public and mental health professionals. A founding member of the Polyvagal Institute, Deb developed the signature Rhythm of Regulation® Clinical Training Series: The Science of Feeling Safe Enough To Fall in Love with Life and Take the Risks of Living.A clinician and consultant specializing in working with complex trauma, Deb Dana is widely credited with adapting Polyvagal Theory to trauma treatment. She is, a clinical advisor to Khiron Clinics and an advisor to Unyte-ILS. She is trained in Internal Family Systems, Sensorimotor Psychotherapy, and Tapas Acupressure Technique, and she completed the Certificate Program in Traumatic Stress Studies at the Trauma Center. Deb's work shows how an understanding of Polyvagal Theory is applicable across the board to relationships, mental health, and trauma. She delves into the intricacies of how we can all use an understanding of the organizing principles of Polyvagal Theory to change the ways we navigate our daily lives. Deb is well known for translating PVT into a language and application that is both clear and accessible - and for her significant contribution, pioneering Rhythm of Regulation® methodology, tools, techniques and practices which continue to open up the power of PVT for professionals and curious people from diverse backgrounds and all walks of life.​Deb believes that we all benefit when we have a basic understanding of the ways the nervous system works and learn how to become active operators of this essential system. Following this passion has led her to offering workshops in partnership with groups and communities outside of the clinical arena - and bringing the Polyvagal perspective to the ordinary, and sometimes extraordinary, experiences of daily living.

After battling a relentless bout of stomach flu that turned our household upside down, we uncovered profound insights into the mind-body connection that we're excited to share with you. Picture this: each family member succumbs to illness, fear creeps in, and suddenly, we're revisiting our mind-body techniques to navigate the chaos. In this episode of the MindBodyCouple podcast, we unravel how fear not only hijacked our minds but also manifested physical symptoms, offering a firsthand look at the phenomenon of neuroplastic nausea. We tackle the challenging terrain of obsessive-compulsive behaviors, particularly in the context of health anxieties, and introduce the liberating concept of radical acceptance. Our discussion highlights the often overlooked cycle of fear and compulsiveness that exacerbates distress and how self-compassion can be a guiding light. As we share our personal stories, we encourage you to embrace your circumstances without resistance. To our cherished listeners, thank you for joining us on this journey. Stay connected with our community for more resources and support on your healing path.This podcast is owned by Pain Psychotherapy Canada Inc. This podcast is produced by Alex Klassen.Together we have a therapy agency called Pain Psychotherapy Canada. Learn more about our work on our website and book in for a free 20 minute consultation with one of our therapists: https://www.painpsychotherapy.ca/Our agency MBody Community provides an in depth course to support you in healing from chronic pain and symptoms: https://www.mbodycommunity.com/We also post daily on instagram: @painpsychotherapyFinally check out Tanner's YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@painpsychotherapyDisclaimer: The information provided by Anne and Tanner on this podcast is for general informational and educational purposes only and is not a substitute for professional advice, psychotherapy, or counselling. It you choose to utilize any of the education, strategies, or techniques in this podcast you are doing so at your own risk. Education and techniques discussed in this Podcast originate from Polyvagal Theory, Pain Reprocessing Therapy, Somatic Experiencing, and Emotional Awareness and Expression Therapy. Reference: Peter Levine, Deb Dana, Dr. Porges, Pain Reprocessing Therapy Center, Alan Gordon, Dr. Schubiner, and Dr. Lumley.

In this episode, Kristen is joined by Deb Dana, a clinician, author, and international lecturer on polyvagal theory-informed work, as they explore understanding and regulating the nervous system and how recognizing dysregulation in our bodies can reduce anxiety and help us navigate daily life with more balance.   Related Resources: rhythmofregulation.com Personal Profile Map and Mapping Directions https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1EJWILbQEZSAgxbrlC_UCPH5HZL7VAJ61?usp=drive_link   Check out Deb Danas' books through these Amazon Links: By using these links to purchase, you're supporting the podcast without any extra cost to you. We appreciate your help in bringing more valuable content your way!   1. Anchored - https://amzn.to/40RwX7u 2. The Nervous System Workbook - https://amzn.to/3EaRATp 3. Polyvagal Exercises for Safety and Connection - https://amzn.to/42yrG5T 4. Polyvagal Card Deck: 58 Practices for Calm and Change - https://amzn.to/4aylqNJ 5. Polyvagal Practices: Anchoring the Self in Safety - https://amzn.to/3CAkOdG 6. Polyvagal Prompts: Finding Connection and Joy through Guided Explorations - https://amzn.to/4hwhpvq 7. Glimmers Journal: Reflect on the Small Moments That Bring You Joy, Safety, and Connection -  https://amzn.to/3PYfPqc   Book that made an impact in Deb's life: Gift from the Sea: 50th Anniversary Edition - https://www.amazon.com/dp/0679406832/ref=cm_sw_r_as_gl_api_gl_i_354CQNJ5ZY4HVH94WAP3?linkCode=ml2&tag=boice01-20   Subscribe and get a free 5-day journal at www.kristendboice.com to begin closing the chapter on what doesn't serve you and open the door to the real you. This information is being provided to you for educational and informational purposes only. It is being provided to you to educate you about ideas on stress management and as a self-help tool for your own use. It is not psychotherapy/counseling in any form. This information is to be used at your own risk based on your own judgment.  For my full Disclaimer please go to www.kristendboice.com. For counseling services near Indianapolis, IN, visit www.pathwaystohealingcounseling.com. Pathways to Healing Counseling's vision is to provide warm, caring, compassionate and life-changing counseling services and educational programs to individuals, couples and families in order to create learning, healing and growth.  

These days, the call for leaders to be adaptable, agile, flexible, clear, focused, and calm could lead many to think it's not okay to feel or that you need to be a robot.We minimize our feelings and put on a brave face until we can no longer fake it, sometimes in the name of being “regulated.”When there's a trend in language or an approach to healing, it can sometimes be reductive in how it's taught, explained, or understood. Concepts drawn from Polyvagal Theory, like regulation and activation, are no exception.How some talk about regulation and dysregulation can create pressure to diminish our humanity so that we don't emote, and cause us to criticize someone if they're upset.In reality, Polyvagal Theory offers a powerful addition to your toolbox for leading yourself and others well while staying aligned with your values. When we work towards helping our nervous systems become more agile and adaptable by putting in the reps and working to understand our systems and our stories, we can offer those we love and lead a greater sense of curiosity, compassion, and connection. And we will have enough boundaries and guardrails to know when to tap out, take a break, and ask for help.Today's guest teaches and discusses these topics so that we can learn to regulate our nervous systems better and connect better with others. Deb Dana, LCSW, is a clinician, consultant, author, and international lecturer on polyvagal theory-informed work with trauma survivors and is the leading translator of this scientific work to the public and mental health professionals. She's a founding member of the Polyvagal Institute and creator of the signature Rhythm of Regulation® clinical training series.Deb's work shows us how understanding polyvagal theory applies across the board to relationships, mental health, and trauma. She delves into the intricacies of how we can all use and understand the organizing principles of polyvagal theory to change the ways we navigate our daily lives. Listen to the full episode to hear:Why regulation is not a static state but an ongoing dynamic experience How understanding the subconscious survival responses of the nervous system under stress can help us learn to regulate and repairWhy we can't discount or dismiss the messages our survival responses are trying to give usHow even micro-moments of responding to our nervous systems' needs can create changeHow building capacity to resourcing regulation increases our capacity to sit with discomfort and struggle in our lives and in the worldHow leaders can use Polyvagal Theory concepts to create connected, collaborative environments for themselves and those they leadLearn more about Deb Dana:Rhythm of RegulationLearn more about Rebecca:rebeccaching.comWork With RebeccaSign up for the weekly Unburdened Leader EmailResources:Stephen PorgesThe Nightingale, Kristin HannahBlue: The History of a Color, Michel PastoureauCéline Dion, Andrea Bocelli - The PrayerHalloween Baking ChampionshipHoliday Baking ChampionshipThe Great British Baking Show

Come to a Dehoarding Accountability Zoom Session: http://www.overcomecompulsivehoarding.co.uk/ticket Subscribe to the podcast: https://www.overcomecompulsivehoarding.co.uk/subscribe Podcast show notes, links and transcript: http://www.overcomecompulsivehoarding.co.uk/  In today's episode, Dr Jan Eppingstall and I explore how to create a ventral vagal space or touchstone to help us regulate our emotions, drawing inspiration from the work of Deb Dana and polyvagal theory. We look at how we can find or create areas within our home, and objects we can use on the go, that provide safety and connection, allowing us to feel grounded and manage overwhelming moments. We'll look at the emotional significance of objects, avoiding those that glower at us, and instead creating spaces filled with comfort and warmth. Creating Your Own Ventral Vagal Space Permission Slip segment Discussion about photographic portraits Emotions associated with the portraits Objects as Memories Significant memories vs. happy memories Harriet Impey's notion of "glowering" objects Emotional Impact of Objects Portraits as a reminder of insecurity Ventral Vagal Space Concept Use of Deb Dana's work in polyvagal theory Connection between emotional safety and physical space Explanation of Polyvagal Theory Breakdown of the nervous system's stages: ventral vagal, sympathetic, and dorsal vagal Relevance of Polyvagal Theory to Hoarding Trauma and its relation to object attachment Challenges of decision-making in a cluttered environment Deb Dana's Home Analogy - Comparison of home systems to body's autonomic systems Integration needed for a "full life" and connection Practical Application of Ventral Vagal Spaces Creating nourishing home spaces Abundance Importance of Touchstones Explanation and significance of touchstones Examples of personal or portable calming items Creating a Ventral Vagal Space or Touchstone Starting small by identifying objects that bring safety and contentment Using childhood memories to influence current safe spaces Applications and Benefits Using the space for emotional regulation Touchstones as portable reminders of safety Recognising objects that already serve as touchstones Importance of awareness and observation in identifying touchstones Utilising Resources for Grounding Examples of resources: lava lamps, messages, certain sounds Strategies for implementing these resources in daily life  

What if processing shame could be the key to unlocking your healing journey from chronic pain and illness? Join us as we promise to unravel this complex emotion and its significant role in recovery. Our latest episode features an exploration of how guilt, the feeling of having done wrong, differs from shame, which attacks our very sense of self. By shining a light on these often-confused emotions and highlighting their universal nature, we aim to guide you in processing them effectively within your healing window.Discover the profound connection between chronic pain and deeply internalized shame, and learn how behaviors such as perfectionism and people-pleasing can be rooted in the fear of inadequacy. We navigate through the ways shame impacts the nervous system, often leading to numbness and disconnection. Through practical techniques and somatic practices, we offer strategies to retrain your brain and develop a compassionate relationship with your emotions. Recognize and name your shame, and embrace self-compassion to help break the cycle of pain and illness. This episode is an invitation to transform your relationship with yourself through cognitive understanding and mindful practices.This podcast is owned by Pain Psychotherapy Canada Inc. This podcast is produced by Alex Klassen.Together we have a therapy agency called Pain Psychotherapy Canada. Learn more about our work on our website and book in for a free 20 minute consultation with one of our therapists: https://www.painpsychotherapy.ca/Our agency MBody Community provides an in depth course to support you in healing from chronic pain and symptoms: https://www.mbodycommunity.com/We also post daily on instagram: @painpsychotherapyFinally check out Tanner's YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@painpsychotherapyDisclaimer: The information provided by Anne and Tanner on this podcast is for general informational and educational purposes only and is not a substitute for professional advice, psychotherapy, or counselling. It you choose to utilize any of the education, strategies, or techniques in this podcast you are doing so at your own risk. Education and techniques discussed in this Podcast originate from Polyvagal Theory, Pain Reprocessing Therapy, Somatic Experiencing, and Emotional Awareness and Expression Therapy. Reference: Peter Levine, Deb Dana, Dr. Porges, Pain Reprocessing Therapy Center, Alan Gordon, Dr. Schubiner, and Dr. Lumley.

What if the key to alleviating chronic pain lies in the way we perceive and engage with our own emotions and habits? Join us as we tackle this intriguing question and uncover the habits that might be hindering your healing journey. We dive into the necessity of downtime and how regulating your nervous system can be a game changer. Plus, we're thrilled to introduce our new weekly virtual Qigong classes, perfect for anyone looking to enhance their somatic movement and breath work. These sessions are accessible to all, regardless of physical capability, and offer a unique opportunity to bridge the gap between mind and body, encouraging a more hopeful and optimistic mindset.Understanding the full spectrum of emotions is a cornerstone of our discussion, as we explore how avoiding or suppressing emotions can lead to physical pain, drawing insights from experts like Dr. Sarno and Dr. Schubiner. We highlight the importance of embracing all emotions as a pathway to healing, and share personal stories, including a humorous anecdote about using cleaning as an emotional avoidance tactic. We also address the fear-driven avoidance of movement and how it can limit life experiences. By sharing strategies like graded exposure, we aim to inspire you to challenge negative thinking, embrace movement, and lead a more connected and fulfilling life.This podcast is owned by Pain Psychotherapy Canada Inc. This podcast is produced by Alex Klassen.Together we have a therapy agency called Pain Psychotherapy Canada. Learn more about our work on our website and book in for a free 20 minute consultation with one of our therapists: https://www.painpsychotherapy.ca/Our agency MBody Community provides an in depth course to support you in healing from chronic pain and symptoms: https://www.mbodycommunity.com/We also post daily on instagram: @painpsychotherapyFinally check out Tanner's YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@painpsychotherapyDisclaimer: The information provided by Anne and Tanner on this podcast is for general informational and educational purposes only and is not a substitute for professional advice, psychotherapy, or counselling. It you choose to utilize any of the education, strategies, or techniques in this podcast you are doing so at your own risk. Education and techniques discussed in this Podcast originate from Polyvagal Theory, Pain Reprocessing Therapy, Somatic Experiencing, and Emotional Awareness and Expression Therapy. Reference: Peter Levine, Deb Dana, Dr. Porges, Pain Reprocessing Therapy Center, Alan Gordon, Dr. Schubiner, and Dr. Lumley.

In this enlightening episode of UNLOCKED, we're joined by Deb Dana, LCSW, a globally recognized clinician, consultant, and speaker specializing in Polyvagal Theory and its practical applications. Deb unpacks the transformative concept of “glimmers,” small moments of connection and safety, and explains how they can help us move through life's challenges with greater ease and resilience.Deb shares profound insights into the science behind glimmers, how they serve as a counterbalance to triggers, and how they can foster creativity, problem-solving, and connection. Together, Krista and Deb explore the importance of nervous system awareness, how glimmers build resilience over time, and the ripple effect they create in relationships, communities, and beyond.This episode offers a practical guide to anyone looking to move beyond survival mode, embrace intentional living, and unlock the capacity for joy, hope, and meaningful connection.Key Moments:00:01:33 – Introduction to Glimmers: Deb explains the science and power behind glimmers as tiny moments of safety and connection.00:04:35 – Krista's Snowflake Story: A personal story illustrating how glimmers can shift mental states.00:08:22 – Glimmers vs. Triggers: Deb explains how glimmers serve as a counterbalance to triggers without bypassing suffering.00:15:00 – The Nervous System's Role: Why state drives story, and how glimmers help interrupt survival responses.00:20:24 – Guided Reflection: Deb leads listeners through a simple exercise to identify and appreciate their own glimmers.00:27:06 – The Science of Glimmers: Exploring how these moments reshape nervous system pathways and build resilience.00:39:00 – The Ripple Effect of Glimmers: How sharing glimmers fosters connection and creates collective regulation.00:46:43 – Practical Steps: Deb outlines how to integrate glimmers into daily life and their potential to change the world one nervous system at a time.About Deb:Deb Dana, LCSW, is a renowned clinician, consultant, and speaker specializing in complex trauma and connection. As the leading translator of Dr. Stephen Porges' Polyvagal Theory, she has made significant contributions to understanding how the nervous system shapes behavior, relationships, and well-being.A best-selling author of Polyvagal Practices, Polyvagal Card Deck, and The Polyvagal Theory in Therapy, among others, Deb's work has been featured in Oprah Daily, Newsweek, and HuffPost. She has also shared her expertise on Deepak Chopra's podcast.Deb trains therapists worldwide and collaborates with organizations to integrate Polyvagal principles into leadership and systems transformation. A founding member of The Polyvagal Institute, she also advises Khiron Clinics and Unyte, helping create environments that foster trust and resilience.Connect With Deb:Website: https://www.rhythmofregulation.com/Connect with Owl & Key:Website: www.owlandkey.coInstagram: www.instagram.com/owl_and_key/Everything Else: linktr.ee/owlandkey

After years of battling with chronic neuroplastic pain, Tanner Murtaugh discovered the power of purposeful action as a transformative tool in their healing journey. Join us on the MindBodyCouple podcast, where we share how engaging in actions with a sense of purpose, passion, and creativity can help shift focus from fear-driven behaviors to those grounded in values and meaning. By letting go of perfectionism and embracing a life filled with small steps towards new career paths or hobbies, you'll learn how to transcend the constraints of chronic symptoms and find fulfillment in everyday life.We delve into personal stories, such as contemplating a major career shift or exploring creative hobbies like art and music, to illustrate the importance of balancing passion with ease and flexibility. Experience how low-pressure, meaningful activities can enhance your life, reduce symptoms, and bring a sense of wholeness. Be inspired to experiment with small, exciting projects that focus on creativity without the burden of deadlines, and see how these purposeful actions can lead to personal growth and a wider, more engaged world.This podcast is owned by Pain Psychotherapy Canada Inc. This podcast is produced by Alex Klassen.Together we have a therapy agency called Pain Psychotherapy Canada. Learn more about our work on our website and book in for a free 20 minute consultation with one of our therapists: https://www.painpsychotherapy.ca/Our agency MBody Community provides an in depth course to support you in healing from chronic pain and symptoms: https://www.mbodycommunity.com/We also post daily on instagram: @painpsychotherapyFinally check out Tanner's YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@painpsychotherapyDisclaimer: The information provided by Anne and Tanner on this podcast is for general informational and educational purposes only and is not a substitute for professional advice, psychotherapy, or counselling. It you choose to utilize any of the education, strategies, or techniques in this podcast you are doing so at your own risk. Education and techniques discussed in this Podcast originate from Polyvagal Theory, Pain Reprocessing Therapy, Somatic Experiencing, and Emotional Awareness and Expression Therapy. Reference: Peter Levine, Deb Dana, Dr. Porges, Pain Reprocessing Therapy Center, Alan Gordon, Dr. Schubiner, and Dr. Lumley.

Discover the transformative potential of polyvagal counseling with our esteemed guest, Jennyfer Rosado, LPCS, who stands as one of the only therapists in Texas with specialized polyvagal training through 2021. Jennyfer shares her remarkable journey as a trauma counselor, enriched by prestigious trainings like the Rhythm of Regulation and the Polyvagal Congress in Germany. Together, we explore the pivotal role of the nervous system in therapy, promising insights that are both enlightening and comforting.Gain a deeper understanding of polyvagal theory in therapeutic practice. We unpack the three vagal states—ventral, sympathetic, and dorsal—and their profound connection to the autonomic nervous system. Guided by the pioneering work of Stephen Porges and Deb Dana, our discussion reveals how concepts like neuroception and co-regulation can aid therapists in helping clients transition from states of defense to homeostasis. By mapping emotional states and identifying vital cues, therapists can support resilience and emotional balance.Navigate the complexities of trauma responses and the adaptive behaviors that arise within our nervous system. We'll examine physiological states such as fawning, hyperarousal, and dorsal states, offering strategies for better regulation and emotional awareness. With practical tools like emotional mapping and identifying "glimmers," listeners can foster a state of ventral regulation, akin to maintaining emotional cruise control through life's challenges. Don't miss the exciting updates and future presentations that promise to expand your therapeutic toolkit.Get your step by step guide to private practice. Because you are too important to lose to not knowing the rules, going broke, burning out, and giving up. #counselorsdontquit.

What if your dizziness and anxiety were more connected than you ever imagined? Join us in a groundbreaking conversation with Dr. Yonit Arthur, a board-certified audiologist and vestibular specialist, as we unravel the unexpected link between chronic dizziness and mental health challenges like anxiety and obsessive-compulsive patterns. Dr. Arthur sheds light on how sudden bouts of dizziness can trigger a cascade of anxiety, even in those without previous mental health issues, leading to a cycle of distress that can magnify symptoms. Understanding these intricate dynamics is crucial for anyone striving for effective recovery and relief.As we journey through the emotional landscape of neuroplastic healing, we emphasize the balance between seeking reassurance and embracing uncertainty. Dr. Arthur explains how excessive reassurance can lead to unhelpful obsessive patterns, while learning to tolerate uncertainty can pave the way for long-term healing. By fostering a personalized healing approach, especially for those with obsessive-compulsive patterns, we empower listeners to manage fear and anxiety more effectively. Dr. Yonit's Services: https://thesteadycoach.com/  Dr. Yonit's YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/@TheSteadyCoach  This podcast is owned by Pain Psychotherapy Canada Inc. This podcast is produced by Alex Klassen.Together we have a therapy agency called Pain Psychotherapy Canada. Learn more about our work on our website and book in for a free 20 minute consultation with one of our therapists: https://www.painpsychotherapy.ca/Our agency MBody Community provides an in depth course to support you in healing from chronic pain and symptoms: https://www.mbodycommunity.com/We also post daily on instagram: @painpsychotherapyFinally check out Tanner's YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@painpsychotherapyDisclaimer: The information provided by Anne and Tanner on this podcast is for general informational and educational purposes only and is not a substitute for professional advice, psychotherapy, or counselling. It you choose to utilize any of the education, strategies, or techniques in this podcast you are doing so at your own risk. Education and techniques discussed in this Podcast originate from Polyvagal Theory, Pain Reprocessing Therapy, Somatic Experiencing, and Emotional Awareness and Expression Therapy. Reference: Peter Levine, Deb Dana, Dr. Porges, Pain Reprocessing Therapy Center, Alan Gordon, Dr. Schubiner, and Dr. Lumley.

Discover the revolutionary approach to retraining your brain to conquer chronic pain and illness as we welcome a fresh start in the new year. Through candid reflections on our holiday experiences, we underscore the critical importance of easing pressure and maintaining emotional regulation. Dive deep into the transformative practice of somatic tracking, a cornerstone of pain reprocessing therapy, which empowers you to replace fear and frustration with calmness and compassion. By cultivating a sense of safety around bodily sensations, you'll begin to lay the groundwork for lasting healing and relief.Journey with us into the world of somatic tracking and uncover its pivotal role in managing pain, symptoms, and anxiety. Learn how techniques like breathing patterns, visualization, and imagery can shift your emotional responses, creating a positive emotional state. Whether you're practicing formally through meditation or informally in daily life, we'll guide you through the concept of the "healing window," where discomfort is tolerable, and techniques are most effective. Listen in for practical tips on integrating somatic tracking into everyday routines, empowering you to discover personalized strategies for your healing journey.This podcast is owned by Pain Psychotherapy Canada Inc. This podcast is produced by Alex Klassen.Together we have a therapy agency called Pain Psychotherapy Canada. Learn more about our work on our website and book in for a free 20 minute consultation with one of our therapists: https://www.painpsychotherapy.ca/Our agency MBody Community provides an in depth course to support you in healing from chronic pain and symptoms: https://www.mbodycommunity.com/We also post daily on instagram: @painpsychotherapyFinally check out Tanner's YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@painpsychotherapyDisclaimer: The information provided by Anne and Tanner on this podcast is for general informational and educational purposes only and is not a substitute for professional advice, psychotherapy, or counselling. It you choose to utilize any of the education, strategies, or techniques in this podcast you are doing so at your own risk. Education and techniques discussed in this Podcast originate from Polyvagal Theory, Pain Reprocessing Therapy, Somatic Experiencing, and Emotional Awareness and Expression Therapy. Reference: Peter Levine, Deb Dana, Dr. Porges, Pain Reprocessing Therapy Center, Alan Gordon, Dr. Schubiner, and Dr. Lumley.

After enduring decades of chronic pain, anxiety, and depression, Aoife, a courageous mind-body coach, graces our latest episode with her incredible journey to healing. As a child, Aoife was dubbed the "mystery girl" by doctors due to her endless symptoms and elusive diagnoses, including fibromyalgia. Her story is a testament to resilience and transformation, from struggling with drugs and alcohol as coping mechanisms to embracing a mindful approach to health. Join us to hear Aoife's riveting tale of survival and renewal, which echoes our own personal battles with similar challenges.Throughout our conversation, we dig deep into the complex and often isolating world of chronic illness. Aoife shares her experiences navigating a maze of restrictive diets and treatments that once controlled her life. The pivotal moment came when she shifted her focus from merely managing symptoms to seeking true freedom and joy. This newfound perspective led her to discover the MindBody Connection, an approach that resonated with her and offered hope beyond the confines of her condition. We explore this transformative realization and the power it holds to reclaim a spontaneous, fulfilling life.Our episode also delves into the healing power of compassion and the courage to live authentically. Aoife and I discuss how past fears and coping mechanisms can suppress emotions and hinder personal growth. Together, we unpack the ongoing journey of self-compassion and conflict resolution, sharing insights and practices that reinforce healing even when symptoms fade. Tune in for a heartfelt exploration of authenticity, the complexities of self-discovery, and the inspiring work Aoife does with sensitive women through group programs. Let Aoife's story ignite your own path to healing and empowerment.___Aoife is a mind body coach helping sensitive women break free from chronic pain and illness anxiety and depression using the tools she used to break free from 30 years of chronic symptoms, anxiety and depression. Book a free health audit call with Aoife: https://aoifemindbody.com/book-free-health-audit-call/Website and programs: https://aoifemindbody.com/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/aoife_mindbodycoaching/profilecard/?igsh=NnZhaXNqcDRxb3phThis podcast is owned by Pain Psychotherapy Canada Inc. This podcast is produced by Alex Klassen.Together we have a therapy agency called Pain Psychotherapy Canada. Learn more about our work on our website and book in for a free 20 minute consultation with one of our therapists: https://www.painpsychotherapy.ca/Our agency MBody Community provides an in depth course to support you in healing from chronic pain and symptoms: https://www.mbodycommunity.com/We also post daily on instagram: @painpsychotherapyFinally check out Tanner's YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@painpsychotherapyDisclaimer: The information provided by Anne and Tanner on this podcast is for general informational and educational purposes only and is not a substitute for professional advice, psychotherapy, or counselling. It you choose to utilize any of the education, strategies, or techniques in this podcast you are doing so at your own risk. Education and techniques discussed in this Podcast originate from Polyvagal Theory, Pain Reprocessing Therapy, Somatic Experiencing, and Emotional Awareness and Expression Therapy. Reference: Peter Levine, Deb Dana, Dr. Porges, Pain Reprocessing Therapy Center, Alan Gordon, Dr. Schubiner, and Dr. Lumley.

Ever felt the weight of the holiday season bearing down on you, especially when managing chronic pain or illness? You're not alone. Join us as we promise to equip you with a "mind-body holiday toolkit" designed to navigate the intense pressures of festive obligations, relationship dynamics, and financial strains. Our heartfelt discussion sheds light on the common yet overwhelming experience of striving for perfection during the holidays. We share personal stories and effective strategies to help you prioritize your well-being, embrace authenticity, and foster emotional balance during one of the busiest times of the year.Throughout our conversation, we emphasize the power of setting boundaries as a crucial step towards maintaining regulation and peace during the holiday rush. From limiting the number of activities you commit to each day to confidently saying no to certain requests, we provide actionable advice to shield yourself from stress and its impact on chronic conditions. Dive into our insights about letting go of perfectionism and celebrating genuine, spontaneous moments that truly matter. Whether you're grappling with chronic pain or just the seasonal hustle, our episode offers support and guidance to help make your holiday experience more manageable and fulfilling.This podcast is owned by Pain Psychotherapy Canada Inc. This podcast is produced by Alex Klassen.Together we have a therapy agency called Pain Psychotherapy Canada. Learn more about our work on our website and book in for a free 20 minute consultation with one of our therapists: https://www.painpsychotherapy.ca/Our agency MBody Community provides an in depth course to support you in healing from chronic pain and symptoms: https://www.mbodycommunity.com/We also post daily on instagram: @painpsychotherapyFinally check out Tanner's YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@painpsychotherapyDisclaimer: The information provided by Anne and Tanner on this podcast is for general informational and educational purposes only and is not a substitute for professional advice, psychotherapy, or counselling. It you choose to utilize any of the education, strategies, or techniques in this podcast you are doing so at your own risk. Education and techniques discussed in this Podcast originate from Polyvagal Theory, Pain Reprocessing Therapy, Somatic Experiencing, and Emotional Awareness and Expression Therapy. Reference: Peter Levine, Deb Dana, Dr. Porges, Pain Reprocessing Therapy Center, Alan Gordon, Dr. Schubiner, and Dr. Lumley.

If you've ever felt like you're drowning in fight, flight, or freeze and cannot find your way back to calm, today's episode is about to change the game. We're diving into Deb Dana's 4 Rs of Nervous System Regulation—a simple, science-backed framework to help you reset and reclaim peace, even when life feels like a lot.What You'll Learn in This Episode:✨ The 4 Rs: Recognize, Respect, Regulate, and Re-story (and how they'll shift you from frazzled to focused).✨ How to stop judging your stress response and start working with your body, not against it.✨ Simple, actionable tools to navigate life's chaos and find calm—without needing hours of free time or a silent retreat.Your body's signals aren't betraying you—they're trying to get your attention. This episode will help you tune in, reset, and move through stress with way more ease and clarity.Want more tools to help you regulate and recover? Grab your free Nervous System Reset Guide below and get ready to feel so much calmer.>>>

Unlock the secrets to navigating uncertainty in your healing journey with insights from the MindBodyCouple podcast. Ever wondered how your nervous system's subconscious signals might be impacting your emotional regulation and perception of safety? Join us as we explore the concept of neuroception from polyvagal theory, revealing how childhood adversity, trauma, and chronic pain can skew these signals, leaving you feeling more vulnerable. You'll learn practical strategies to enhance emotional regulation and reduce the fear of uncertainty, empowering you to transform your response to life's unknowns.Embrace a new way of living by letting go of the excessive control that binds you. Our episode guides you through recognizing whether your actions are fear-driven or genuinely rooted in self-care. Tanner and Anne introduce a mindful practice that shifts your focus from pain and symptoms to engaging in valued activities, helping you identify how uncertainty manifests in your body. With a compassionate approach, they explain the importance of staying within a "healing window" to avoid overwhelming sensations. By practicing presence and observation, you'll cultivate a greater tolerance for uncertainty, enabling you to live more fully and freely.This podcast is owned by Pain Psychotherapy Canada Inc. This podcast is produced by Alex Klassen.Together we have a therapy agency called Pain Psychotherapy Canada. Learn more about our work on our website and book in for a free 20 minute consultation with one of our therapists: https://www.painpsychotherapy.ca/Our agency MBody Community provides an in depth course to support you in healing from chronic pain and symptoms: https://www.mbodycommunity.com/We also post daily on instagram: @painpsychotherapyFinally check out Tanner's YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@painpsychotherapyDisclaimer: The information provided by Anne and Tanner on this podcast is for general informational and educational purposes only and is not a substitute for professional advice, psychotherapy, or counselling. It you choose to utilize any of the education, strategies, or techniques in this podcast you are doing so at your own risk. Education and techniques discussed in this Podcast originate from Polyvagal Theory, Pain Reprocessing Therapy, Somatic Experiencing, and Emotional Awareness and Expression Therapy. Reference: Peter Levine, Deb Dana, Dr. Porges, Pain Reprocessing Therapy Center, Alan Gordon, Dr. Schubiner, and Dr. Lumley.

Episode SummaryDeb Dana L.C.S.W. joins the How Humans Work Podcast to illuminate how our nervous systems dance between the ancient survival responses and the instinct to be in states of connection and safety. As an author, renowned Polyvagal Theory lecturer, Deb expertly and compassionately guides us through the ins-and-outs of Polyvagal Theory (PVT), and how it can help us find a more regulated nervous system. At the core, we explore the powerful, bottom-up role of our vagal nerves play in our ability to find safety and connection. Consequently, this show is also a profound conversation about the role of our nervous systems in healing, relationships, stress, and trauma.Throughout a delightful episode, Deb offers heartfelt insight into our human experience as she emphasizes the need for co-regulation and the impact of trauma on our nervous system responses as well as the intersection of Internal Family Systems and Polyvagal Theory. Together. Finally, we explore how environments and collective aspects challenge the nervous systems across contemporary society. Here Deb highlights the importance of creating safe environments for healing and connection has in changing how society handles. In this episode you will learn: How Polyvagal Theory provides a framework for understanding our nervous system. What Neuroception is and how our nervous system perceives safety and danger through neuroception. What the vagus nerve is and how it plays a crucial role in regulating our emotional states. Why Regulation is essential for accessing curiosity, play, and connection. The difference between Stress and Trauma responses, and how we can work with them. How the vagal break helps manage heart rate and emotional responses. Why understanding the nervous system can lead to more effective therapy. Insight into the influences on the collective nervous systems, societal dynamics and healing. Why creating safe environments is key to facilitating healing personally and societally. Deb Dana L.C.S.W., is a renowned clinician, consultant, author, and international lecturer specializing in the application of Polyvagal Theory to trauma treatment and therapy. With a deep understanding of the autonomic nervous system and its role in shaping human behavior and relationships, she has become a a leader in brining PVT insights into practical tools for therapists, healthcare providers, and individuals seeking healing.Deb is also the developer of the Rhythm of Regulation clinical model, which integrates Polyvagal Theory into therapeutic practices, emphasizing safety, connection, and co-regulation as the foundation for emotional and psychological well-being. Additionally, Deb has authored several influential books, including The Polyvagal Theory in Therapy: Engaging the Rhythm of Regulation and Anchored: How to Befriend Your Nervous System Using Polyvagal Theory, as well as the co-edited work Polyvagal Exercises for Safety and Connection.YouTube Chapters:00:00 Introduction and Background 02:11 The Role of the Nervous System in Human Experience 08:25 The Vagus Nerve: Anatomy and Function

What if the chronic pain you experience isn't just a physical ailment, but a complex interplay of emotions and neurological patterns? Join us on the MindBodyCouple podcast as Simon unravels his personal journey of battling chronic pain. Despite expert opinions leaving him at a loss, Simon's story is one of resilience and discovery. He sheds light on the neuroplastic nature of his symptoms and how hypervigilance and maladaptive coping mechanisms played a role in his suffering. His journey takes many twists, from feeling isolated and frustrated to finding hope in new therapeutic approaches and psychological insights that paved the way for his healing.In this compelling episode, we explore Simon's experiences with treatments like myofascial release therapy and discover the transformative impact of Alan Gordon's book, "The Way Out." With a focus on pain reprocessing therapy and the courage to confront personal growth challenges, Simon offers a message that healing is not just possible but multifaceted, leaving listeners inspired by his resilience and hopeful for their own journeys.Check out his YouTube channel here: https://www.youtube.com/@déjouerladouleurchroniqueThis podcast is owned by Pain Psychotherapy Canada Inc. This podcast is produced by Alex Klassen.Together we have a therapy agency called Pain Psychotherapy Canada. Learn more about our work on our website and book in for a free 20 minute consultation with one of our therapists: https://www.painpsychotherapy.ca/Our agency MBody Community provides an in depth course to support you in healing from chronic pain and symptoms: https://www.mbodycommunity.com/We also post daily on instagram: @painpsychotherapyFinally check out Tanner's YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@painpsychotherapyDisclaimer: The information provided by Anne and Tanner on this podcast is for general informational and educational purposes only and is not a substitute for professional advice, psychotherapy, or counselling. It you choose to utilize any of the education, strategies, or techniques in this podcast you are doing so at your own risk. Education and techniques discussed in this Podcast originate from Polyvagal Theory, Pain Reprocessing Therapy, Somatic Experiencing, and Emotional Awareness and Expression Therapy. Reference: Peter Levine, Deb Dana, Dr. Porges, Pain Reprocessing Therapy Center, Alan Gordon, Dr. Schubiner, and Dr. Lumley.

Imagine discovering a path to healing chronic pain/symptoms and  trauma that involves something as simple and joyful as play. Join us, Tanner and Anne, as we embark on an insightful journey through the intricate workings of the autonomic nervous system and its vital role in well-being. Our series kicks off with a lighthearted exploration of the ventral vagal, sympathetic, and dorsal vagal states, adorned with personal tales and a sprinkle of humor. We reveal how balancing these states can lead to profound recovery and why an occasional ping pong match can be both healing and stressful.As we share our commitment to embracing playfulness and sticking to a plan, we also reflect on the challenges faced by trauma survivors in reclaiming a playful spirit. Discover strategies to gently invite play into your life, even when it feels daunting. Our anecdotes offer relatable insight, paving the way for a newfound appreciation of the playful side of healing.This podcast is owned by Pain Psychotherapy Canada Inc. This podcast is produced by Alex Klassen.Together we have a therapy agency called Pain Psychotherapy Canada. Learn more about our work on our website and book in for a free 20 minute consultation with one of our therapists: https://www.painpsychotherapy.ca/Our agency MBody Community provides an in depth course to support you in healing from chronic pain and symptoms: https://www.mbodycommunity.com/We also post daily on instagram: @painpsychotherapyFinally check out Tanner's YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@painpsychotherapyDisclaimer: The information provided by Anne and Tanner on this podcast is for general informational and educational purposes only and is not a substitute for professional advice, psychotherapy, or counselling. It you choose to utilize any of the education, strategies, or techniques in this podcast you are doing so at your own risk. Education and techniques discussed in this Podcast originate from Polyvagal Theory, Pain Reprocessing Therapy, Somatic Experiencing, and Emotional Awareness and Expression Therapy. Reference: Peter Levine, Deb Dana, Dr. Porges, Pain Reprocessing Therapy Center, Alan Gordon, Dr. Schubiner, and Dr. Lumley.

Imagine a world where chronic pain is not a lifelong sentence but a puzzle that can be solved. That's exactly what Paul Lapointe, our esteemed guest from the Pain Psychotherapy Canada Clinic, discovered on his remarkable journey. After facing his own debilitating chronic pain, Paul unearthed the transformative concept of neuroplastic pain—a revelation that turned his world upside down. Join us as Paul shares his story of struggle and breakthroughs. He offers insights that challenge our deepest beliefs about pain and our bodies.Emotions can be both a burden and a balm, especially in the realm of healing chronic pain. In this episode, we unpack the profound role of emotional awareness and expression therapy (EAET) in both our personal and professional lives. The conversation highlights the continuous journey of emotional work, shedding light on the societal norms that can hinder us from truly connecting with our emotions. Anecdotes, including a touching story about teaching a child to express anger, illustrate the transformative power of embracing emotional expression. Discover how connecting with our emotions, whether naturally or through therapy, can lead to significant reductions in chronic symptoms.This podcast is owned by Pain Psychotherapy Canada Inc. This podcast is produced by Alex Klassen.Together we have a therapy agency called Pain Psychotherapy Canada. Learn more about our work on our website and book in for a free 20 minute consultation with one of our therapists: https://www.painpsychotherapy.ca/Our agency MBody Community provides an in depth course to support you in healing from chronic pain and symptoms: https://www.mbodycommunity.com/We also post daily on instagram: @painpsychotherapyFinally check out Tanner's YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@painpsychotherapyDisclaimer: The information provided by Anne and Tanner on this podcast is for general informational and educational purposes only and is not a substitute for professional advice, psychotherapy, or counselling. It you choose to utilize any of the education, strategies, or techniques in this podcast you are doing so at your own risk. Education and techniques discussed in this Podcast originate from Polyvagal Theory, Pain Reprocessing Therapy, Somatic Experiencing, and Emotional Awareness and Expression Therapy. Reference: Peter Levine, Deb Dana, Dr. Porges, Pain Reprocessing Therapy Center, Alan Gordon, Dr. Schubiner, and Dr. Lumley.

In this episode we dive into discussing symptom imperative, a fascinating phenomenon where new symptoms arise as one heals from chronic pain/symptoms through a neuroplastic approach.We guide you through effective strategies for overcoming the symptom imperative, emphasizing the need to recognize symptoms without an obsessive urge to fix them. Beware of the trap of consulting "Dr. Google," and instead, consider gentle brain retraining practices, somatic tracking, and challenging your limiting beliefs as constructive alternatives. Understand the emotional messages or unresolved traumas that might be linked to these symptoms, but avoid becoming consumed by the search for meaning. Through sharing our personal experiences, we highlight the importance of identifying patterns and managing the focus on symptoms to keep them from becoming overwhelming. Join us as we explore these techniques to help navigate the often perplexing terrain of healing and transformation.This podcast is owned by Pain Psychotherapy Canada Inc. This podcast is produced by Alex Klassen.Together we have a therapy agency called Pain Psychotherapy Canada. Learn more about our work on our website and book in for a free 20 minute consultation with one of our therapists: https://www.painpsychotherapy.ca/Our agency MBody Community provides an in depth course to support you in healing from chronic pain and symptoms: https://www.mbodycommunity.com/We also post daily on instagram: @painpsychotherapyFinally check out Tanner's YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@painpsychotherapyDisclaimer: The information provided by Anne and Tanner on this podcast is for general informational and educational purposes only and is not a substitute for professional advice, psychotherapy, or counselling. It you choose to utilize any of the education, strategies, or techniques in this podcast you are doing so at your own risk. Education and techniques discussed in this Podcast originate from Polyvagal Theory, Pain Reprocessing Therapy, Somatic Experiencing, and Emotional Awareness and Expression Therapy. Reference: Peter Levine, Deb Dana, Dr. Porges, Pain Reprocessing Therapy Center, Alan Gordon, Dr. Schubiner, and Dr. Lumley.

Discover the secrets of taming the "spooky beast" of chronic pain/symptoms as we unravel the intricate dance between our brains and our bodies. Ever wondered how your brain's misinterpretation of signals keeps you ensnared in a relentless cycle of discomfort? We'll demystify the science of nervous system survival responses like fight, flight, fawn, and freeze and explore how these reactions can exacerbate chronic symptoms. We'll illuminate how fostering a sense of safety can help break free from this cycle, offering a path toward healing inspired by the insights of Alan Gordon.Join us as we unpack the transformative power of shifting beliefs to foster healing. We dive into the world of pain reprocessing therapy, illustrating how cognitive safety messages can be your guiding light away from fear and frustration. Learn to retrain your brain to reinterpret bodily sensations, replacing fear with a mindset of safety and opening the door to personal exploration. Through this episode, we aim to equip you with knowledge and strategies to empower your healing journey, encouraging a shift from danger to safety in your perception of pain.This podcast is owned by Pain Psychotherapy Canada Inc. This podcast is produced by Alex Klassen.Together we have a therapy agency called Pain Psychotherapy Canada. Learn more about our work on our website and book in for a free 20 minute consultation with one of our therapists: https://www.painpsychotherapy.ca/Our agency MBody Community provides an in depth course to support you in healing from chronic pain and symptoms: https://www.mbodycommunity.com/We also post daily on instagram: @painpsychotherapyFinally check out Tanner's YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@painpsychotherapyDisclaimer: The information provided by Anne and Tanner on this podcast is for general informational and educational purposes only and is not a substitute for professional advice, psychotherapy, or counselling. It you choose to utilize any of the education, strategies, or techniques in this podcast you are doing so at your own risk. Education and techniques discussed in this Podcast originate from Polyvagal Theory, Pain Reprocessing Therapy, Somatic Experiencing, and Emotional Awareness and Expression Therapy. Reference: Peter Levine, Deb Dana, Dr. Porges, Pain Reprocessing Therapy Center, Alan Gordon, Dr. Schubiner, and Dr. Lumley.

   Neuroscience and trauma educator Dr Cathleen King joins me to talk about her journey through ill health, vagus nerve retaining, cell danger response, nervous system education, the danger of social media tools, Deb Dana, Huberman, Irene Lyon, trauma and intimacy, making money, vicarious trauma, victimhood, leftist politics, polarity, trust, and more. A useful, wise and fun one with a kindred spirit.    Find out more about Dr.King here: https://www.primaltrust.org/about/     Join our trauma course starting THIS week: https://embodimentunlimited.com/superpowers/  ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------    Cathleen was a pioneer in the brain-body field by launching the first top-down brain retraining + bottom-up somatic and vagus nerve healing program titled “Creating Calm”. 
    In 2020 she launched the first Primal Trust™ Mentorship pilot program to incorporate trauma healing practices into her neuroplasticity work. Since then Primal TrustTM has expanded beyond being simply a program and has become a movement and a paradigm shift, igniting self-healing across the globe as people reclaim their inner superpowers to self-regulate their own biology and reconnect with their true nature. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------       Get a free copy of Mark's latest eBook for coaches (12 tools) at this link: https://embodimentunlimited.com/coachingpodcast     Join Mark for in-person workshops – https://embodimentunlimited.com/events-calendar/?utm_source=TEP&utm_medium=Description&utm_campaign=Events    Join free coaching demos sessions with Mark – https://embodimentunlimited.com/free-coaching-with-mark/?utm_source=TEP&utm_medium=Description&utm_campaign=Demo    Find Mark Walsh on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/warkmalsh/    

Send us a textIn this week's episode of the Nourished Nervous System podcast, I welcome Marietta Skeen. Marietta is a Transpersonal and Somatic Psychotherapist, who offers therapy, movement, meditation and energy practices to help folks come into their bodies and feel more grounded, connected and vital. She received her Masters in Transpersonal Psychology from Naropa University, polyvagal training with Deb Dana and extensive training at the Hartford Family Institute in body centered psychotherapy. Through her practice of contemplative movement, apprenticeship with a Buddhist monk, and her unique blend of Akashic records and Usui reiki, she weaves offerings that invite people to live with greater aliveness, clarity and ease. Marietta discusses her journey into this holistic field, touching upon her background in meditation, yoga, and somatic practices. Key themes include the essence of transpersonal and somatic psychotherapy, inner and outer witnessing, and nervous system regulation through polyvagal theory. The conversation further delves into recollective meditation, authentic movement, and their benefits for mental well-being. Marietta also breaks down common myths about therapy, highlighting its importance beyond problem-solving to enhancing human connection, and shares practical steps for self-care and mental health improvement. This episode serves as a rich resource for those intrigued by alternative therapeutic methods and personal growth.Understanding Transpersonal and Somatic PsychotherapyThe Concept of Inner and Outer WitnessExploring Polyvagal TheoryRecollective Meditation and Authentic MovementListening to Our BodiesCommon Myths of PsychotherapyConnect with Marietta:www.mariettaskeen.comIG:  www.instagram.com/movebemovedFB:  https://www.facebook.com/mythrivingvillage://My resources:Deep Rest MeditationNourished For Resilience Workbook Book a free Exploratory CallFind me at www.nourishednervoussystem.comand @nourishednervoussytem on Instagram

In this episode of the MindBodyCouple podcast, Tanner reveals how chronic pain and mental health struggles led him away from work and into a cycle of avoidance that only deepened his challenges. Discover Tanner's personal story of healing through a mind-body approach, a method that helped him gradually and safely reintegrate into the workplace. We discuss why it's crucial to solidify recovery before making the leap back to work, offering insights into strategies that can turn this challenging transition into a positive experience.We also explore overcoming work fears and the challenges of navigating toxic work environments. By using methods like graded exposure Tanner and Anne share practical tips for reintroducing work-related tasks slowly and with compassion. The significance of community engagement, socialization, and adopting a positive attitude is underscored, alongside how small victories can foster a sense of safety and positivity. This episode is packed with actionable advice for transforming the workplace into a supportive environment by leaning into passions and values, which can be a game changer for those managing neuroplastic pain. Join us as we navigate these complexities and aim to inspire a more manageable return to work life.This podcast is produced by Alex Klassen.Together we have a therapy agency called Pain Psychotherapy Canada. Learn more about our work on our website and book in for a free 20 minute consultation with one of our therapists: https://www.painpsychotherapy.ca/Our agency MBody Community provides an in depth course to support you in healing from chronic pain and symptoms: https://www.mbodycommunity.com/We also post daily on instagram: @painpsychotherapyFinally check out Tanner's YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@painpsychotherapyDisclaimer: The information provided by Anne and Tanner on this podcast is for general informational and educational purposes only and is not a substitute for professional advice, psychotherapy, or counselling. It you choose to utilize any of the education, strategies, or techniques in this podcast you are doing so at your own risk. Education and techniques discussed in this Podcast originate from Polyvagal Theory, Pain Reprocessing Therapy, Somatic Experiencing, and Emotional Awareness and Expression Therapy. Reference: Peter Levine, Deb Dana, Dr. Porges, Pain Reprocessing Therapy Center, Alan Gordon, Dr. Schubiner, and Dr. Lumley.

Guest Bios Show Transcript https://youtu.be/g3j3C25thlcMuch research has been done to address individual trauma. But what happens when trauma is collective—when an entire congregation, for example, is betrayed by a pastor they trusted? In this edition of The Roys Report, Kayleigh Clark, a pastor and a pastor's kid, discusses the impact of communal suffering, which church leaders often overlook. Kayleigh, a doctoral student at Kairos University, is completing her dissertation on congregational collective trauma and paths towards healing and restoration. And what she's learned is ground-breaking for churches that have experienced pastoral abandonment or moral failure and are struggling to recover. As was explained in the popular book, The Body Keeps the Score, unhealed trauma—if unaddressed—will manifest itself as physical and psychological ailments in our bodies. Likewise, unaddressed trauma in the Body of Christ will also manifest as corporate dysfunction and pain. But as Kayleigh explains in this eye-opening podcast, this doesn't have to be the case. Healing is available. But it requires congregants and spiritual leaders who understand trauma and don't try to charge forward before the congregation has healed. Given all the unhealed trauma in the church, this is such a relevant and important podcast. It's also one that discusses dynamics Julie knows all too well, as someone who's in a church with others who've experienced deep church hurt. She discusses her own experience in the podcast, which could be a prime case study. Guests Kayleigh Clark Kayleigh Clark is founder and director of Restor(y), which exists to journey with churches on the hope-filled path of healing and restoration. She completed a Master of Divinity at Northeastern Seminary and is currently a Th.D. Candidate at Kairos University with a focus on the interplay between psychology and theology. Kayleigh and her husband, Nate, love exploring the outdoors with their son near their home in Rochester, New York. Learn more about Restor(y) online. Show Transcript [00:00:00] Julie: Much research has been done to address individual trauma, but what happens when trauma is collective? When an entire congregation, for example, is betrayed by a pastor they trusted. According to my guest today, the impact of communal suffering is often overlooked, but the body of Christ keeps score. [00:00:22] Julie: Welcome to The Roys Report, a podcast dedicated to reporting the truth and restoring the church. I’m Julie Roys. And joining me today is Kaylee Clark, a pastor and a pastor’s kid who’s well acquainted with the beauty, joy, pain, and heartache that exists within the church. Kaylee also is a doctoral student at Kairos University, and her dissertation work focuses on congregational collective trauma and paths towards healing and restoration. [00:00:50] Julie: She also is the director of ReStory, a ministry to help churches heal and embody the hope of Jesus, especially after experiencing a devastating loss or betrayal. I had the pleasure of meeting Kaylee about a week ago, and I was so excited by her insights and the work that she’s doing that I was like, you have to come on my podcast. [00:01:10] Julie: So I am thrilled that she can join me today, and I know you’re going to be blessed by this podcast. I’ll get to my interview with Kaylee in just a minute, but first, I’d like to thank the sponsors of this podcast, the Restore Conference and Mark Horta Barrington. If you’re someone who’s experienced church hurt or abuse, there are few places you can go to pursue healing. [00:01:30] Julie: So, Similarly, if you’re an advocate, counselor, or pastor, there are a few conferences designed to equip you to minister to people traumatized in the church. But the Restore Conference, this February 7th and 8th in Phoenix, Arizona, is designed to do just that. Joining us will be leading abuse survivor advocates like Mary DeMuth and Dr. [00:01:50] Julie: David Pooler An expert in adult clergy sexual abuse. Also joining us will be Scott McKnight, author of A Church Called Toe, Diane Langberg, a psychologist and trauma expert, yours truly, and more. For more information, just go to Restore2025. com. That’s Restore2025. com. Also, if you’re looking for a quality new or used car, I highly recommend my friends at Marquardt of Barrington. [00:02:17] Julie: Marquardt is a Buick GMC dealership where you can expect honesty, integrity, and transparency. That’s because the owners there, Dan and Kurt Marquardt are men of integrity. To check them out, just go to buyacar123. com. [00:02:37] Julie: Well, again, joining me today is Kaylee Clark, a pastor and doctoral student who’s studying congregational collective trauma and the paths to healing and restoration. She’s also the founder of Restoree and she’s a wife and mother of a beautiful baby boy. So Kaylee, welcome. It’s just such a pleasure to have you. [00:02:56] Kayleigh: Thank you. Thank you for having me. It’s an honor and a pleasure to be with you today. [00:03:00] Julie: Well, I am just thrilled to have you on our podcast and I mentioned this in the open, but We talked last week and I was just like, Oh my word, everything that you’re doing, your work is so important. And it’s so where I’m living right now. [00:03:15] Julie: And I know a lot of our listeners are living as well. And so I’m thrilled about it. But as you mentioned, your work is, is unique. We’re going to get into that, but I am just curious, this whole idea, collective trauma, you know, ministering. To the church. How did you get interested in this work? [00:03:33] Kayleigh: Sure. Um, so I am fourth generation clergy. [00:03:37] Kayleigh: So great grandpa, grandpa, my dad, and then me. So are all pastors. Uh, and so I’ve just always known the church, uh, pastors have also been kind of my second family. I’ve always felt at home amongst the church and amongst pastors. Um, but when you grow up in the parsonage and other PKs will know this, uh, you are not hidden from. [00:03:58] Kayleigh: The difficult portions of church and the really hard components of church. And so then when you add on to that, becoming a pastor myself, you know, my eyes continued to be open, uh, to some of the ways that church can be a harmful place as much of it as it is a healing place. And I began to kind of ask the question, well, well, why, um, what is going on here? [00:04:21] Kayleigh: Um, particularly because when I served and we’ll get into more of this, I think, but when I was serving in my first lead pastor, it’s. So I’m a really young, I was like 27 when they, or 28 when they entrusted me when I first lead pastorate, which is kind of wild. And so they kind of threw me in and what they do with most young pastors is they kind of throw us into these dying churches. [00:04:44] Kayleigh: And so, right, it’s a small. Church with, you know, it’s dying, it’s dwindled in numbers. And so this is my first kind of lead pastorate. And, you know, I read all the books, I’m a learner, I’m a reader. I, you know, I know how to do all the things. And so I’m reading all of the books on how to revitalize a church and raise a church up from it and all those things and nothing is working. [00:05:06] Kayleigh: Um, and it started to kind of really raise my attention to, well, maybe there’s something else going on here. Um, And, and maybe we’ve been asking the wrong questions when we’ve been approaching the church. Uh, and so, uh, again, I’m a learner, so I was like, well, I’m just going to go back to school. If that was the only way I knew how to figure this out. [00:05:25] Kayleigh: So I landed in a THD program that focused on combining the studies of trauma theory with theology. Um, and my undergraduate degree is in psychology, so it felt kind of like a merging of my two worlds. Um, and it was there that I encountered collective trauma and. Really in an interesting way, studying, um, more like childhood development trauma. [00:05:46] Kayleigh: But anytime I looked at it, all I could see was the church, um, and seeing the ways in which there might be a bigger picture. There might be a bigger story going on here. And maybe there’s some collective congregational trauma underneath the, these dying, uh, declining churches that we just aren’t aware of. [00:06:04] Julie: So, so good. And this is the thing that, that just stuns me. When I, I, I do an investigation and the top pastor gets fired, sometimes all the elders step down, but the church, it’s, it’s unbelievably rare for one of those churches to thrive afterwards. And I, and I think so much of it is they think, Oh, we got rid of the bad apple. [00:06:29] Julie: And they have no concept of how that toxicity, one, you know, the toxic, often bullying way of relating and everything was, was taught and learned and trained throughout. But then there is that trauma and, and I just, I think of Willow Creek Community Church, I went to their, it was like a midweek service where they were going to deal with, Supposedly, the women who had been sexually harassed and abused by Bill Heibel’s, the previous pastor, and they didn’t even name it. [00:07:08] Julie: They didn’t name what had happened. They didn’t go into what had happened. They didn’t apologize to the women. The women became like this amorphous something out there, the women, you know? Um, and, and then they talked about, they had a repentance time, like we’re supposed to repent for his sins. It was the most bizarre, unhealing thing I had ever seen. [00:07:27] Julie: And I couldn’t imagine how after something that dysfunctional, a church could go, okay, we’re back, you know, reach the lost, you know, seeker sensitive church. It was just bizarre. Um, so, so much of your work is, is resonating with me. And again, We’ve seen a lot in and it’s really important is dealing with individual trauma and which is super important work. [00:07:53] Julie: Um, and my last podcast with Chuck DeGroat, we talked a lot about that. We talk a lot about that on a lot of podcasts, but we often don’t address again, what’s this collective trauma that, that, you know, that it actually has a social aspect. So talk about why is it important that we begin addressing collective trauma and not just individual trauma, though, you know, obviously we each need to heal as individuals, but collectively as well. [00:08:24] Kayleigh: Yeah. So collective trauma is a newer field, even in psychological studies. So it’s, Not as old as individual trauma studies, and it actually became more popular through the work of Kai Erikson, who’s a sociologist. He’s not even a psychologist, but he studied collective trauma in kind of what he refers to as unnatural disasters. [00:08:43] Kayleigh: And so these disasters that are experienced by communities that have a human, like, blame component. So it was due to somebody’s negligence due to somebody’s poor leadership due to somebody’s abuse, and it’s on a community. And so Kai Erickson notes the, the social, he calls it the social dimension of trauma or collective trauma. [00:09:03] Kayleigh: And what he, he details there is that collective trauma is anything that disrupts and ruptures the, uh, relationships within a community. Distorting and taking apart their, uh, he calls it communality instead of community, but it’s their sense of, like, neighborliness. It’s their sense of being together. It’s their, Their shared identity and their, their shared memories are all now distorted. [00:09:26] Kayleigh: And so I think when we’re speaking specifically about the church, and when we’re looking at religious trauma and congregational trauma, we need to remember that the church is first and foremost, a community. And so sometimes I think that’s missed in our kind of American individualism. You know, a lot of people kind of view spirituality as this individualistic thing, but the church is a community. [00:09:48] Kayleigh: And so when we come together as the body of Christ, you know, when wounding happens, when trauma comes, it breaks down the relationships within that congregation, which really. is what makes it a church. The relationships are what make that a church. And so when trauma comes in and disrupts those and starts causing the divisions and the distrust and the he said, she said, and the choosing of sides and the church splits and all of these things have these ripple effects on the community. [00:10:19] Kayleigh: Um, and they really are, are traumatizing. And so what happens is that if we don’t deal, if we’re only dealing with the individual trauma, In part, that’s usually dealing with people who have left the church, right? And so usually the people who are seeking individual healing from their religious trauma, who are able to name that, who are able to say, I went through this, have often stepped outside of the church. [00:10:42] Kayleigh: Sometimes just for a season, which is completely understandable. They need that time away. They need time to heal. They’re, they don’t, feel safe. But what we’re missing when we neglect the social dimension of religious trauma are often the people who stay are these congregations who can’t name it yet, who can’t articulate that what they’ve gone through is religious trauma, who who maybe are still trying to figure out what that means. [00:11:07] Kayleigh: Often it means that we’re missing, um, you know, these, these the church that I served in, you know, isn’t one of these big name churches that’s going to get, you know, newscasted about. And they can’t necessarily name what happened to them as religious trauma because nobody’s given them the language for it. [00:11:25] Kayleigh: And so we’ve often missed these, these declining churches. We’ve missed because we haven’t remembered that Trauma is communal that trauma is relational. And so we need to, yes, provide as much care and as much resourcing as we can for the healing of individuals, because you can’t heal the community if the individuals don’t know. [00:11:44] Kayleigh: But we really need to remember that the community as a whole. impacted, and that especially when we’re talking about the church, we want to be able to heal and restore those relationships. And to do that means we have to address the social dimensions of the religious trauma. And so [00:12:01] Julie: often the people that, that stay aren’t aware of what’s happened to them. [00:12:08] Julie: Are they not even aware they’re traumatized? [00:12:11] Kayleigh: Right, right. Yeah. [00:12:13] Julie: Yeah. You introduced this, this concept, which is great. I mean, it’s, it’s a riff off of the book, The Body Keeps the Score, which, you know, um, just an incredible book by, uh, Dr. Vander Kolk. But this idea that the body of Christ keeps the score. [00:12:33] Julie: Describe what you mean by that, that the body of Christ keeps the score when there’s this kind of trauma that it’s experiencing. [00:12:40] Kayleigh: Sure. So you kind of alluded to it earlier when you were giving an example of the removing of a toxic pastor, right? And then just the placement of a new pastor. And so often what happens in these situations where there’s spiritual abuse or, um, clergy misconduct or any of those things that’s causing this religious trauma, the answer seems to be, well, let’s just remove the. [00:13:00] Kayleigh: Problem person. And then that will solve everything. Um, well, what happens is we forget that trauma is embodied, right? And so you can remove the physical threat. Um, but if you remove the physical threat or the problem person, but this congregation still has this embodied sense of trauma in which they perceive threat now. [00:13:23] Kayleigh: So they’re reacting to their surroundings out of that traumatized position, because that’s what the collective body has learned to do. And so you see this, um, It’s a silly example, but I use it because I think people see it a lot. So you have a new pastor come in and the new pastor has a great idea, at least he or she thinks it’s a great idea. [00:13:46] Kayleigh: And it probably has to do with removing pews or changing carpet color. Okay. And so they present this, what they think is just a great harmless idea. And the response of the congregation is almost volatile and the pastor can’t figure out why. And often, unfortunately, what pastors have kind of been taught to identify is that they must just idolatry. [00:14:11] Kayleigh: They just have the past as an idol for them and they need to kill this golden cow. Right. And so it becomes this theological problem. Sure, there might be cases where that is the truth, but often I would say that there’s, um, a wonderful. So another great book on trauma. It’s more on racialized trauma, but it deals a lot with historical trauma is, um, rest my Mac mannequins book, um, my grandmother’s hands and in it, he addresses this historical trauma that is embodied and he quotes Dr. [00:14:42] Kayleigh: Noel Larson, who says, if it’s hysterical, it’s probably historical. In other words, if the reaction to the thing happening doesn’t seem to match, like it seems out of proportion, either too energized or not enough energy around it, it’s probably connected to some kind of historical trauma that hasn’t been processed. [00:15:03] Kayleigh: And so we see this a lot in churches who are having a hard time being healthy and flourishing and engaging with the community around them. And. The reason why is often because they have this unhealed trauma that nobody’s given them language for. Nobody’s pointed out, nobody’s addressed for them. Um, and so it’s just kind of lingering under the surface, unhealed, unnamed, and it’s informing how they believe, how they act. [00:15:33] Kayleigh: Um, and so this is really What I mean when I say the body of Christ keeps the score is that the body of Christ has embodied this trauma and it’s coming out in their behaviors, in their actions, in their values, and our pastors are not equipped to address it from a trauma informed perspective. They’ve only been given tools to address it from maybe a theological position, or this kind of revitalization remissioning perspective. [00:16:02] Kayleigh: That often doesn’t work. [00:16:04] Julie: There’s so many things I’m thinking as as you’re talking. I mean one. to come in and do something. And then because people react to, I mean, basically that’s shaming them. It’s guilting them to say, Oh, you have an idol or what’s wrong with you that you can’t get on board. And the truth is they don’t know what’s wrong with them. [00:16:23] Julie: They, they don’t. And, and they’re hurt. And all they know is you just, they’re hurt and now you’ve hurt them. So now they don’t trust you. So way to go. Um, but I’m thinking maybe because we brought this up and I don’t mean to beat up on, on Willow Creek, but I’m thinking about. When the new pastor came in, and I don’t think he’s a bad guy, um, you know, they, they were bleeding money. [00:16:45] Julie: Obviously they, they did not have the resources they did before. So one of the first things they did was they centralized, which meant the campus pastors weren’t going to be preaching anymore. They were going to be pumping in video sermons. Here’s the pastor that people trusted on these campuses. Now, that person’s not going to be preaching, which then of course, all of them left. [00:17:06] Julie: They ended up leaving and the trauma you’d now it’s trauma upon trauma. And it just seems like, especially in so many of these churches, you bring somebody in and they want to move somewhere like, right. They want a thriving church. What they don’t want to do is be at a church and sit in your pain. And yet. [00:17:27] Julie: Unless that’s done, I mean, can these churches, I mean, can they move forward? I mean, what’s going to happen if you come in and you don’t? slow down and say, these people are hurting and I need to, I need to be a shepherd. Then that’s the other thing. It’s so many of these mega churches, and I know this isn’t unique to mega churches that this happens, but I, it’s the world in which I report so often is that these mega churches are very mission vision, five year plan oriented and what they’re not capable of doing. [00:17:59] Julie: I think so many of these, you know, and they always bring in the, the pastor. That’s a good orator, maybe not a shepherd at all. In fact, some of these guys even say, I’m not a shepherd, which that’s another, yeah, I mean, but, but to actually, they need a shepherd at that point. Right. I mean, these, these people need it. [00:18:20] Julie: So, I mean, again, what, what do they need to do? And what happens if they don’t do some of these things? [00:18:28] Kayleigh: So the thing that I have really been drawn to, especially as I study Jesus, and I look at what it means to be trauma informed in the pastorate. So I, I do believe that God is still working through pastors. [00:18:39] Kayleigh: Um, in fact, there’s a really beautiful section of scripture in Jeremiah 23, where God is addressing abusive shepherds and God’s response is, I will raise up new shepherds. So God still wants to work through shepherds. There is still a place for a pastor. The problem is, is I don’t think we’ve taught pastors how to lead out of a posture of compassionate curiosity. [00:19:03] Kayleigh: And so if you follow Jesus and you look at the way that Jesus interacts with hurting people, it is out of this beautiful, humble posture of compassionate curiosity. And so I was always struck by like, he asks the blind man, what do you want me to do for you? And it always seemed like a. That’s a strange question. [00:19:20] Kayleigh: Like, he’s blind, Jesus. What do you think he and often it’s preached on, like, well, we need to be able to tell God what we want. And that’s maybe some of it. But I think it’s also the truth that God knows that it can be re traumatizing to somebody to tell them what they need and what they want. Right? So what we learned when we studied trauma is that it’s not. [00:19:40] Kayleigh: So especially when we’re talking trauma caused by abuse is that abuse is so connected to control. And so what has often happened to these victims of religious abuse of spiritual abuse is that they have had control taken from them entirely. And so when a new pastor comes in and tells them, this is what you need to get healthy again, and never takes the time to approach them from this. [00:20:02] Kayleigh: posture of compassionate curiosity, they can end up re traumatizing them. Um, but our pastors aren’t trained to ask these questions. And so, so often if you read, you know, and they’re well meaning books, you know, they’re, they’re trying to get to what’s going on in the heart of the church. They’re trying to get back to church health, but so many of the books around that have to deal with. [00:20:23] Kayleigh: Asking the church, what are you doing or what are you not doing? And trauma theory teaches us to ask a different question. And that question is what happened to you? And I think if pastors were trained to go into churches and ask the question, what happened to you and just sit with a church and a hold the church and, and listen to the stories of the church, they, they might discover that these people have never been given space to even think about it that way. [00:20:52] Kayleigh: You know, where they’ve just, they’ve had abusive leaders who have just been removed or they’ve had manipulative leaders who have just been removed and they’ve just been given a new pastor and a new pastor and nobody’s given them the space. To articulate what that’s done to them, um, as individuals and as a congregation. [00:21:09] Kayleigh: And so if we can learn to, to follow Jesus in just his curiosity, and he asks the blind man, what do you want me to do for you? He, he says, who touched me when the woman reaches out and touches him. And that’s not a, it’s not a question of condemnation. That’s a question of permission giving. He knows that this woman needs more than physical healing. [00:21:28] Kayleigh: She needs relational healing. She needs to tell her story. And by pausing and saying, who touched me? He provides a space for her to share her story that she’s never been able to share with anyone before. And I think if we were to follow that Jesus, as pastors and as leaders, we would begin to love the Bride of Christ in such a way that would lead to her healing, instead of feeling the need to just rush her through some five year plan to what we think is healing and wholeness, and what actually may not be what they would say is what they need. [00:22:02] Julie: So many things you’re saying are resonating with me. And part of that’s because, uh, like I said, we’re living this. Um, I, I told you last week when we talked that our, our house church was going on a retreat, first retreat we’ve ever had. We’ve been together a little over, well, for me, I came in about two years ago and I think they had been meeting maybe eight or nine months before then. [00:22:29] Julie: Some of the people in our group, Um, don’t come out of trauma. Um, you know, one of our, one of the couples in our church, uh, they’re like young life leaders, really just delightful, delightful, delightful people, but they haven’t lived the religious trauma. One couple is, they’re from the mission field and they had a great missions experience. [00:22:55] Julie: The only trauma they might be experiencing is coming home to the U. S. The truth is they love the mission field, right? Um, and then. The remainder of us come from two, two churches, um, that, that had some sexual abuse that was really, you know, mishandled and the trust with the leaders was, was broken in really grievous ways. [00:23:19] Julie: Um, and then there’s me on top of having that, um, living in this space where, I mean, I just report on this all the time. And so, but one of the beautiful things that happened in this, in this group is that it did have leaders when we came into it and it triggered us. Like, you know, and for us it was like, oh, here’s the inside group and the outside group. [00:23:47] Julie: Like, we’re used to the ins and the outs, right? And, and we’re used to the inside group having power and control, and the rest of us just kind of go along with it. And, and we’re, we’re a tiny little group. Like we’re 20 some people, right? But, but it’s just, and, and we’re wonderful people. Wonderful people. [00:24:02] Julie: And yet we still like, it was like, mm. And um, and so. The beautiful thing is that those leaders recognize, like they didn’t fully understand it, but they said, you know, I think we need to just step down and just not have leaders. And I didn’t even realize till we went on this retreat what an act of service and of love that was for them to just say, were laying down any, any agendas we might’ve had, any even mission or vision that we might’ve had. [00:24:35] Julie: And for one of, you know, one of the guys, it was really hard for him cause he’s just like, Mr. Mr. Energy and initiative. And, and he was like, I better not take initiative because like, it’s, it’s not going to be good for these folks. Um, and on the retreat. So then, I mean, it was, it was really a Holy Spirit. [00:24:54] Julie: experience, I think for all of us, because there definitely was a camp that was like, okay, we’ve had this kind of healing time, but can, can we move forward a little bit? Like, can we, can we have some intentionality? And then there were part of us that were just like, oh my word, if we, if we, if we have leaders, why do we need leaders? [00:25:12] Julie: We’re 20 something people. Like we can just decide everything ourselves. And, and there really was somewhat of an impasse, but it’s interesting. The things that you said for me, And it was funny at one point. They’re like, can’t you just trust? And, you know, kind of like, what, what are you guys afraid of? You know? [00:25:29] Julie: And the first thing that came out of my mouth was control control. Like we’re afraid of control, um, or I’m afraid of control. Um, but what was so, so. Huge for me and I think was one of those again, Holy Spirit moments was when, you know, I was trying to like make a point about power dynamics, like you don’t realize power and like we have to be aware of how power is stewarded in a group like this because everybody has power. [00:25:59] Julie: If you don’t realize as a communicator the power that you have, like I’m aware now that because I can, I can form thoughts pretty quickly. That I can have a lot of influence in a group. I’m aware of that. And so, you know, there was even like a part where I was leading and then I was like, I can’t lead this next thing. [00:26:17] Julie: I’ve been leading too much, you know, and then we, and then we gave, we, somebody had a marker and we gave the marker to, to, um, one of the guys in our group who’s fantastic guy. And, um, And at one point, so, so anyway, I was talking about power and, and one of the guys was like, well, I don’t, I don’t really see power. [00:26:35] Julie: I don’t need. And I’m like, you have it, whether you realize it and you have it. And what was huge is that one of the other guys that sort of a leader was a leader was able to say what she’s talking about is real. Everybody has power. This is really important. And he was quite frankly, somebody with a lot of power in that group because he has a lot of trust, used to be a pastor. [00:26:57] Julie: Um, and for him to acknowledge that for the rest of us was huge. And then this, this other guy, I mean, he said at one point, Oh, well, you know, so and so’s holding the marker right now and he has power, doesn’t he? And I was like, yes, you’re getting it. That’s it. That’s it. Thank you. Because he’s like, you just reframed what we said and I wouldn’t have reframed it that way. [00:27:22] Julie: Like I wouldn’t. And I’m like, yes, exactly. It’s like, and it was like, it was like the light bulbs were going on and people were starting to get it. Um, and then another key, key moment was when one of the women who, you know, wasn’t, you know, from our church where we experienced stuff, who said, can you, can you tell me how that, how that felt for you when we used to have leaders? [00:27:46] Julie: And then for people to be able to express that. And people listened and it was like, and I was able to hear from this guy who felt like he was, he had a straight jacket, you know, because he, he like wants to use his, his initiative. Like he, he. You know, and God’s given that to him. It’s a good thing, you know. [00:28:07] Julie: And all I can say is it was just an incredible experience, an incredible moment, but it would not have happened if, and now I’m going to get kind of, it wouldn’t have happened if people cared more about the mission than the people. And they didn’t realize the people are the mission. This is Jesus work. He doesn’t care about your five year plan. [00:28:41] Julie: He doesn’t care about your ego and the big, you know, plans that you have and things you can do. What he cares is whether you’ll lay your life down for the sheep. That’s what shepherds do. And what I saw in, in our group was the willingness to, for people that have shepherding gifts to lay down their, you know, not literally their lives, but in a way their lives, their, their dreams, their hopes or visions, everything to love another and how that created so much love and trust, you know, in our group. [00:29:22] Julie: And we’re still like trying to figure this out, but yeah, it was, it was hugely, it just so, so important. But I thought how many churches are willing to do that, are willing to, to sit in the pain, are willing to listen. And I’m, I’m curious as you go in now, there’s so much of your work has become with ReStory is, is education and going into these churches. [00:29:52] Julie: You know, normally when this happens, And you told me there’s a, there’s a name for pastors that come in. It’s the afterpastor. Afterpastor. [00:30:00] Kayleigh: Yes. The afterpastor. [00:30:02] Julie: How many times does the afterpastor get it? And does he do that? [00:30:07] Kayleigh: So the problem is, and I can tell you, cause I have an MDiv. I went, I did all the seminary. [00:30:11] Kayleigh: I’m ordained. We don’t get trained in that. Um, so, and there is, um, like you said, so you use this guy as an example who has the clear. Initiative gifts. So they’re what would be called kind of the Apostle, um, evangelist gifts in like the pastoral gift assessment kind of deal. You’ve got the Apostle, prophet, evangelist, shepherd, and teacher. [00:30:34] Kayleigh: And right now there’s a lot of weight kind of being thrown behind the Apostle evangelist as kind of the charismatic leader who can set the vision. And so most of the books on pastoral You know, church health and church are written kind of geared and directed that way. Um, so we’re really missing the fact that when we’re talking about a traumatized church, what you really need is a prophet shepherd. [00:30:57] Kayleigh: Um, you need somebody who can come in and shepherd the people and care for them well, but also the prophet. The role of the prophet is often to help people make meaning of their suffering. So if you read closely, Jeremiah and Ezekiel, particularly who are two prophets speaking to people in exile, what they’re really doing is helping people make meaning of that suffering. [00:31:17] Kayleigh: They’re helping people tell their story. They’re, they’re lamenting, they’re crying with them. They’re, they’re asking the hard questions. Um, and they’re able to kind of see between the lines. So prophet, Pastors who have kind of that prophetic gifting are able to see below. They’re able to kind of slow down and hear the actual story beyond the behaviors, right? [00:31:35] Kayleigh: So the behaviors aren’t telling the whole story, but we need eyes to see that. And so the problem, I would say, is that a lot of well, meaning pastors simply aren’t taught how to do this. And so they’re not given the resources. They’re not given kind of the, um. this like Christian imagination to be able to look at a church and say, okay, what has happened here and what healings take place here? [00:31:59] Kayleigh: Um, the other problem is, you know, we need to be able to give space. So denominational leaders need to be able to be okay with a church that maybe isn’t going to grow for a few years. And I think that is whether we like it or not. And we can say all day long that we don’t judge a church’s health by its numbers. [00:32:19] Kayleigh: But at the end of the day, pastors feel this pressure to grow the church, right? To have an attendance that’s growing a budget that’s growing and. And so, and part of it is from a good place, right? We want to reach more people from Jesus, but part of it is just this like cultural pressure that defines success by numbers. [00:32:36] Kayleigh: And so can we be okay with a church that’s not going to grow for a little while? You know, can we be okay with a church that’s going to take some like intentional time to just heal? And so when you have an established church, um, which is a little bit different than a house church model, it can be. A really weird sacrifice, even for the people who are there, because often what you have is you have a segment of the church who is very eager to move forward and move on and and to grow and to move into its new future, and they can get frustrated with the rest of the church. [00:33:15] Kayleigh: That kind of seems to need more time. Um, but trauma healing is it’s not linear. And so, you know, you kind of have to constantly Judith Herman identifies like three components of trauma healing. And so it’s safety and naming and remembering and then reconnecting, but they’re not like you finish safety and then you move to this one and then you move to this one. [00:33:36] Kayleigh: Often you’re kind of going, you’re ebbing and flowing between them, right? Because you can achieve safety and then start to feel like, okay, now I can name it. And then something can trigger you and make you feel unsafe again. And so you’re now you’re back here. And so, um, um, Our churches need to realize that this healing process is going to take time, and collective trauma is complicated because you have individuals who are going to move through it. [00:33:57] Kayleigh: So you’re going to have people who are going to feel really safe, and they’re going to feel ready to name, and others who aren’t. And so you have to be able to mitigate that and navigate that. And our pastors just aren’t simply trained in this. And so what I see happening a lot is I’ll do these trainings and I’ll have somebody come up to me afterwards and go, Oh my goodness, I was an after pastor and I had no idea that was a thing. [00:34:18] Kayleigh: And they’re like, you just gave so much language to my experience. And you know, and now I understand why they seem to be attacking me. They weren’t really attacking me. They just don’t trust the office of the pastor. And I represent the office of the pastor. Okay. And so sometimes they take that personally again, it becomes like these theological issues. [00:34:38] Kayleigh: And so helping pastors understand the collective trauma and being able to really just take the time to ask those important questions and to increase not only their own margin for suffering, but to increase a congregations margin for suffering. You know, to go, it’s going to be, we can sit in this pain. [00:34:58] Kayleigh: It’s going to be uncomfortable, but it’s going to be important, you know, learning how to lament, learning how to mourn. All of these things are things that often we’re just not trained well enough in, um, as pastors. And so therefore our congregations aren’t trained in them either. You know, they don’t have margin for suffering either. [00:35:14] Kayleigh: Um, and so we need to be able to equip our pastors to do that. Um, and then equip the congregations to be able to do that as well. [00:35:20] Julie: So good. And I’m so glad you’re doing that. I will say when I first started this work, um, I was not trauma informed. I didn’t know anything about trauma really. And I didn’t even, you know, I was just a reporter reporting on corruption and then it turned into abuse in the church. [00:35:38] Julie: And I started interfacing with a lot of abuse victims. who were traumatized. And I think back, um, and, and really, I’ve said this before, but survivors have been my greatest teachers by far, like just listening to them and learning from them. But really from day one, you know, it’s loving people, right? It really, it like, if you love and if you empathize, which You know, some people think it’s a sin, um, just cannot, um, but if you do that and, and that’s what, you know, even as I’m thinking about, um, within our own, our own house church, there were people who weren’t trained, but they did instinctively the right things because they loved. [00:36:28] Julie: You know, and it just reminds me, I mean, it really does come down to, they will know you are Christians by your love. You know, how do we know love? Like Christ laid down his life for us. He is our model of love and, and somehow, you know, like you said, the, in the church today we’ve, we’ve exalted the, um, what did you say? [00:36:49] Julie: The apostle evangelist? The apostle evangelist. Yeah. Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. Um, we’ve exalted that person, um, you know, And I think we’ve forgotten how to love. And too many of these pastors don’t know how to love. They just don’t know how to love. And it’s, it’s tragic. Because they’re supposed to be I mean, the old school models, they were shepherds, you know, like you said, like we need apostles, we need evangelists. [00:37:16] Julie: But usually the person who was leading the church per se, the apostles and evangelists would often end up in parachurch organizations. I’m not saying that’s right or wrong. I think the church needs all of those things. Um, and, uh, But yeah, we’ve, we’ve, we’ve left that behind, sadly. And there’s nothing sexy about being a shepherd. [00:37:37] Kayleigh: Yeah, no, I, all, all of the Apostle, I mean that, well, the whole thing is needed, um, and it’s most beautiful when we just work together, and, and when they can respond to each other. So, I mean, me and you’re an example in your house, you’re a visiting example of this. You can’t, even if just listening, you have some clear Apostle evangelists in your group, right? [00:37:54] Kayleigh: I mean, Um, right? And so you have these people wired for that, and yet they’re able to, to learn and respond to some of the people in the group who have more of those prophet shepherd tendencies. And so I think that that’s really what, and that’s loving, right? So we should go back. It’s just loving one another and learning from one another. [00:38:17] Kayleigh: And knowing when to lean into certain giftings and to learn from others giftings. This is why it’s the body of Christ. And so when a component of the body of Christ is left out, we can’t be who God’s called us to be. And so when we neglect the role of the shepherd and neglect the role of the prophet or minimize them, or see them as secondary, then we’re not going to do called us to be. [00:38:44] Kayleigh: You know, we may need all of it to come together to do what God has called us to do. God is working in this church. He’s worked all through this church. He has established it and called it, and He’s going to use it. But we need to be learning how He has built it and how He framed it. For me to love one another and not elevate one gifting above another. [00:39:07] Julie: And it’s interesting too, you mentioned the office of the pastor. Um, I know as we were discussing some of this, we have one guy who’s very, I mean, actually our entire group, and I think this is probably why we’ve been able to navigate some of this. It’s it’s a really spiritually mature group. A lot of people. [00:39:26] Julie: who have been in leadership, um, which sometimes you get a lot of leaders together and it can be, you know, but this hasn’t been that way because I think people really do love the Lord. Um, and they love each other. Um, but one of the things that was brought up, um, is Is the pastor an office or is it a role and have we made it into an office and, and what we realized in the midst of that and I, you know, I, I’m like, well, that’s really interesting. [00:39:57] Julie: I would like to study that. And I find there, there’s a curiosity when you talk compassionate curiosity, I think there’s also a curiosity in, in people who have been through this kind of trauma. There’s a curiosity in, okay, what, what did we do? that we did because everybody said that’s how we’re supposed to do it. [00:40:18] Kayleigh: Yeah. [00:40:18] Julie: Yeah. Do I really have that conviction? Could I really argue it from scripture? Is this even right? And so I find even in our group, there is a, there is a, um, there’s a curiosity and maybe this is because we’re coming through and we’re in, you know, I think a later stage of healing is that now we’re like really curious about what should we be? [00:40:44] Julie: Yes. Yes. What should we be, like, we, we want to dig into what, what is a church, what should it really be, and what, why, how could we be different? Of course, always realizing that you can have the perfect structure and still have disaster. Um, it really does come down to the character of the people and, and that, but, but yeah, there’s a real, Curiosity of, of sort of, um, digging, digging into that. [00:41:10] Julie: And, and let me just, I can ask you, and, and maybe this will be a rabbit trail, maybe we’ll edit it out. I don’t know. Um, , but, but I am curious what do, what do you think of that idea that the, the pastorate may be a role that we’ve made into an office and maybe that could be part of the problem? [00:41:27] Kayleigh: I think that’s a lot of it. [00:41:28] Kayleigh: Um, because when we turn the, the pastorate into an office, we can lose the priesthood of all believers. So that I think is often what happens is that, um, you create this pastoral role where now all of the ministry falls on to the pastor. And so instead of the pastor’s role being to equip the saints for the ministry, which is what scripture says, the scripture describes a pastor as equipping the saints for the ministry. [00:41:56] Kayleigh: Now the pastor is doing the ministry, right? There’s, there’s just all of this pressure on the pastor. And that’s, that’s where I think we start to see this. The shift from the pastor being the one who is, you know, encouraging and equipping and edifying and, you know, calling up everybody to live into their role as the body of Christ where we’ve seen. [00:42:19] Kayleigh: You know, I have a soft spot for pastors. Again, I’m like, they’re all my relatives are them. I love pastors and I know some really beautiful ones who get into ministry because that’s exactly what they want to do. And so what has often happened though, is that the, the ways of our culture have begun to inform how the church operates. [00:42:40] Kayleigh: And so we saw this, you know, when, when the church started to employ business In kind of the church growth movement. So it’s like, okay, well, who knows how to grow things? Business people know how to grow things. Okay. Well, what are they doing? Right. And so now that the pastor is like the CEO, people choose their churches based on the pastor’s sermon, right? [00:43:00] Kayleigh: Well, I like how this pastor preaches. So I’m going to go to that church. Um, so some of it is. So I would say that not all of it is pastors who have like that egotistical thing within them at the beginning. Some of it is that we know that those patterns exist. But some of these men and women are genuinely just love the Lord’s people and then get into these roles where they’re all of a sudden like, wait, I, Why, why is it about me and others, this pressure to preach better sermons and the person down the road or, you know, run the programs and do all of these things instead of equipping the people to do the work of God. [00:43:38] Kayleigh: And so I think it’s, it’s about, and right, I think it’s happened internally in our churches, but I also think there’s this outward societal pressure that has shifted the pastor from this shepherding role to the CEO office. Um, And finding the, like, middle ground, right? So again, like, we can swing the pendulum one way and not have pastors. [00:44:05] Kayleigh: Or we can swing the pendulum the other way and have pastors at the center of everything. But is there a way of finding, kind of, this middle ground where people who are fairly calm and gifted and anointed by God to do rich shepherding can do it in a way that is Zen sitting that church that is equal famous saint that is calling the body of Christ to be what it is called be. [00:44:27] Kayleigh: And I guess I’m, I’m constantly over optimistic and so I’m convinced that there’s gotta be a way , that we can get to a place where pastors can live out of their giftings and live by their callings and live out of their long dreams in such a way. That leads to the flourishing health of the church and not to its destruction. [00:44:45] Julie: Yes. And, and I think if it’s working properly, that absolutely should be there. They should be a gift to the church. Um, and, and sadly we just, we haven’t seen enough of that, but that is, that is, I think the model. Um, let’s talk specifically, and we have talked, or we might not have named it, um, but some of the results of this collective trauma. [00:45:08] Julie: in a congregation. Um, let’s, let’s name some of the things. These are ways that this can, that this can play itself out. [00:45:17] Kayleigh: Sure. So when we’re talking about congregational collective trauma, one of the main results that we’ve talked about kind of in a roundabout way is this lack of trust that can happen within the congregation. [00:45:27] Kayleigh: And this can be twofold. We can talk about the lack of trust for the leadership, but it all also can be lack of trust. Just, In the congregation itself, um, this often happens, particularly if we’re looking at clergy misconduct that maybe wasn’t as widespread. So I think this is some of what you’ve kind of talked about with Willow Creek a little bit, and I’m, I wasn’t in that situation, but I’ve seen it other places where, you know, in our system, the denominational leadership removes a pastor. [00:45:56] Kayleigh: And so what can happen in a system like that is that denominational leadership becomes aware of abuse. They act on the abuse by removing the pastor. And what you have happening is kind of this, um, Betrayal trauma or this, you know, bias against believing. And so because the idea that their clergy person who they have loved and trusted, you know, shepherd them could possibly do something that atrocious. [00:46:24] Kayleigh: That idea is too devastating for them to internalize. So it feels safer to their bodies to deny it. And so what can happen is you can have a fraction of the church. that thinks it’s, you know, all made up and that there’s no truth to it. And they began to blame the denominational leadership as the bad guys or that bad reporter that, you know, the [00:46:45] Julie: gossip monger out there. [00:46:47] Julie: It’s so bad. [00:46:48] Kayleigh: Yeah, exactly. Exactly. So you have this split. Now, sometimes it literally splits and people will leave. Um, but sometimes they don’t and they all stay. And so you have these fractions of people who believe different things about what happened. And so now there’s, there’s a lack of shared identity. [00:47:08] Kayleigh: So I would say one of the key components of collective trauma in a congregation is this mistrust, which is often connected to a lack of shared identity. And so they can’t really figure out who they are together. What does it mean for us to be a community to get there? Um, and so trauma begins to write their story. [00:47:27] Kayleigh: And so when we talk about the embodiment of trauma, one of the ways that that works in individuals, and this is like a mini neuroscience lesson that many of your listeners are probably aware of, because I think you have a very trauma informed audience. Audience, but, um, you know, that it, it makes us react out of those fight, flight, or freeze responses. [00:47:46] Kayleigh: And so that happens individually, right? So something triggers us and all of a sudden we’re at our cortisol is raised. We’re acting out of the, uh, you know, those flight flight places that happens communally too. So a community gets triggered by, you know, a pastor again, having what they think is just a creative idea, you know, but maybe it triggers that time that that pastor. [00:48:09] Kayleigh: Had a creative idea that was, you know, and ran with it without talking to anybody and just like wield the control and manipulated people. And now, all of a sudden, this pastor who thinks they just have this innocent, creative idea is now seen as manipulative. And what are they going to try to do behind our backs? [00:48:27] Kayleigh: And what are they going to try? And, and. What are they going to take from us? Right? And so trauma, trauma takes from people. And so now they’re living kind of out of this perpetual perceived fear, perceived threat, that something else is going to be lost. And so when you have a congregation that’s constantly operating out of, you know, this fight, flight, or freeze response. [00:48:52] Kayleigh: Collectively, I mean, how can we expect them to live out the mission that God has given them? Um, you know, they’re not, they’re not there. They’re not able to, um, they’re not able to relate to one another in a healthy way. And so we, we see a lack of kind of intimate relationships in these congregations, right? [00:49:09] Kayleigh: Because so the Deb Dana, who has helped people really understand the polyvagal theory, when we’re talking about, um, trauma talks about your, your, um, Nervous system, your autonomic nervous system is kind of being like a three rung ladder. And so in this three rung ladder, you have the top rung being your ventral bagel state, which is where you can engage with people in safe and healthy ways. [00:49:32] Kayleigh: And then you move down into kind of your sympathetic nervous system. And this is where you’re in that fight flight freeze and then dorsal bagels at the bottom. And in those two middle and bottom, you can’t build these deep relationships. And again, deep relationships are what make a church a church. And so if you have a congregation that’s stuck in these middle to bottom rungs of this ladder, they’re, they’re fight, flight, freeze, or they’re withdrawing from one another. [00:49:54] Kayleigh: You’re, you’re losing the intimacy, the vulnerability, the safety of these congregations to build those kinds of relationships. And so I would say that, that distrust, that lack of shared identity and that inability to build deeper kind of relationships are three kind of key components of what we’re seeing in congregations who are carrying this collective trauma. [00:50:16] Julie: And yet, if you work through that together, like I will say right now, I feel a great deal of affection for, for everyone. Uh, in our house tours because we went through that chaos together, but also it was, it was an opportunity to see love and people lay down their lives for each other. So to, to be able to see, I mean, you begin writing a new story instead of that old story that’s been so dominant, you know, that you have to tell, you have to work through. [00:50:50] Julie: Yeah, you do. And, and, and you have, you do. I love where you say, you know, people need to, to hear that from you. Yeah. I think that’s really, really important for people to have a safe place. But then at the same time, you can’t, you don’t want to live the rest of your life there. You don’t want that to define, define you. [00:51:09] Julie: Um, and that’s, that’s what’s beautiful though, is if you work through it together, now you, you’ve got a new story, right? You’ve got, you’ve got Dodd doing something beautiful. Um, among you and, and that’s what he does. [00:51:23] Kayleigh: That’s why we call our organization Restory. Um, it is a word used in trauma theory and in reconciliation studies to talk about what communities who have experienced a lot of violence have to do is they have to get to a place where they’re able to, it’s exactly what you’re talking about with your house churches doing is you guys have kind of come to a place where you’re able to ask the question, who do we want to be now? [00:51:45] Kayleigh: And this is this process of restorying. And so what trauma does is in many ways, for a while, it tries to write our stories. And for a while, it kind of has, because of the way that it’s embodied, we kind of, it has to, right? Like we have to process like, okay, I’m reacting to this. trigger because of this trauma that’s happened. [00:52:05] Kayleigh: So how do I work through that? You know, how do I name that? How do I begin to tell that story? And so we, and we have to tell the story, right? Because I mean, trauma theory has been the dialectic of traumas, but Judith Herman talks about is it’s very unspeakable because it’s horrific, but it has to be spoken to be healed. [00:52:22] Kayleigh: Right. And so with this trauma, it can be hard to speak initially. But it needs to be spoken to be healed. But once we’ve done that, once we begin to loosen the control that trauma has on us. Once we’re able to speak it out loud, and then we can get to a place individually and communally where we can start to ask ourselves, Who do we want to be? [00:52:45] Kayleigh: And who has God called us to be? And no, things are not going to be the way they were before the trauma happened. I think that’s the other thing that happens in churches is there’s a lot of misconception. That healing means restoring everything to the way it was before. And when that doesn’t happen, there’s this question of, well, well, did we, did we heal? [00:53:06] Kayleigh: And we have to remember that we’re never going back to the way it was before the trauma happened. But we can begin to imagine what it can look like now. Once we begin to integrate the suffering into our story, and we begin to ask those helpful questions, and we take away the trauma’s control, now we can ask, who do we want to be? [00:53:24] Kayleigh: And we can begin to write a new beautiful story that can be healing for many others. [00:53:29] Julie: A friend of mine who has been through unspeakable trauma, I love when she talks about her husband, because they went through this together, and she often says, he’s like an aged fine wine. You know, and I love that because to me, no, you’re not going back to who you were, but in many ways who you were was a little naive, little starry eyed, a little, you know, and, and once you’ve been through these sorts of things, it is kind of like an aged fine wine. [00:54:01] Julie: You have, you’re, you’re aged, but hopefully in a beautiful way. And, you know, I, I think you’re way more compassionate. Once you’ve gone through this, you’re way more able to see another person who’s traumatized and And to, you know, reach out to that person, to love that person, to care for that person. And so it’s a beautiful restoring. [00:54:26] Julie: And we could talk about this for a very long time. And we will continue this discussion at Restore, [00:54:33] Kayleigh: um, because [00:54:34] Julie: you’re going to be at the conference and that was part of our original discussions. So folks, if you wanna talk more to Kaleigh , come to Restore. I, I’m, I’m gonna fit you in somehow because , I’m gonna be there. [00:54:46] Julie: you’re gonna be there. But do you just have a wealth of, uh, I think research and insights that I think will really, really be powerful? And I’m waiting for you to write your book because it needs to be written. Um, but I’m working on it. , thank you for, for taking the time and for, um, just loving the body. [00:55:07] Julie: And in the way that you have, I appreciate it. [00:55:09] Kayleigh: Well, thank you. Because, you know, when I heard about your work and your tagline, you know, reporting the truth, but restoring the church, you know, I was just so drawn in because that’s what we need. The church is worth it. The church is beautiful and she is worth taking the time to restore. [00:55:24] Kayleigh: And I’m so thankful for the work that you’re doing to make sure that that that happens. [00:55:28] Julie: Thank you. Well, thanks so much for listening to the Roy’s Report, a podcast dedicated to reporting the truth and restoring the church. I’m Julie Roys. And if you’ve appreciated this podcast and our investigative journalism, would you please consider donating to the Roy’s report to support our ongoing work? [00:55:47] Julie: As I’ve often said, we don’t have advertisers or many large donors. We mainly have you. The people who care about our mission of reporting the truth and restoring the church. So if you’d like to help us out, just go to Julie Roy’s spelled R O Y S dot com slash donate. That’s Julie Roy’s dot com slash donate. [00:56:07] Julie: Also just a quick reminder to subscribe to the Roy’s report on Apple podcasts, Spotify or YouTube. That way you won’t miss any of these episodes. And while you’re at it, I’d really appreciate it if you’d help us spread the word about the podcast by leaving a review. And then please share the podcast on social media so more people can hear about this great content. [00:56:29] Julie: Again, thanks so much for joining me today. Hope you are blessed and encouraged. Read more

Ever wondered if perfectionism could be causing your chronic pain or symptoms? Join us on the MindBodyCouple podcast, where we unravel the fascinating link between these two issues, drawing from our recent experiences at the Psychophysiologic Disorders Association conference in Colorado. Our insights are breaking new ground by challenging the notion that perfectionism is an immutable part of your personality. Instead, we offer a new perspective: perfectionism is a trait that can be transformed to reduce the stress, guilt, and shame that may accompany it. Our listeners have shared powerful stories on how embracing these ideas has brought them solace and healing, and we are excited to bring these transformative insights to you.This episode takes you on a personal journey through the origins of perfectionism as a coping mechanism from childhood, especially in high-demand environments. We explore how societal pressures perpetuate a relentless cycle of anxiety and self-criticism, and share firsthand accounts of navigating the fears of losing acceptance and success. Through this process, we highlight the profound benefits of embracing imperfections and practicing self-compassion. With practical examples, like simplifying tasks and valuing downtime, we provide actionable steps to help you ease perfectionist tendencies. Our YouTube channel and courses offer additional resources for this transformative journey, empowering you to accept vulnerabilities for greater peace and productivity.This podcast is produced by Alex Klassen.Together we have a therapy agency called Pain Psychotherapy Canada. Learn more about our work on our website and book in for a free 20 minute consultation with one of our therapists: https://www.painpsychotherapy.ca/Our agency MBody Community provides an in depth course to support you in healing from chronic pain and symptoms: https://www.mbodycommunity.com/We also post daily on instagram: @painpsychotherapyFinally check out Tanner's YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@painpsychotherapyDisclaimer: The information provided by Anne and Tanner on this podcast is for general informational and educational purposes only and is not a substitute for professional advice, psychotherapy, or counselling. It you choose to utilize any of the education, strategies, or techniques in this podcast you are doing so at your own risk. Education and techniques discussed in this Podcast originate from Polyvagal Theory, Pain Reprocessing Therapy, Somatic Experiencing, and Emotional Awareness and Expression Therapy. Reference: Peter Levine, Deb Dana, Dr. Porges, Pain Reprocessing Therapy Center, Alan Gordon, Dr. Schubiner, and Dr. Lumley.

Watch on YouTubeIn Episode 7 of The Juggle Is Real, a mother-daughter show, the discussion centers around the connection between physiological and psychological states and how they influence thoughts and actions. The episode provides an illustrative example through Sabrina's experience of failing her driver's permit test, exploring the emotional responses of frustration and sadness. The concept of emotional intelligence is introduced, emphasizing the importance of identifying and understanding specific emotions using tools like the emotional wheel. The episode also introduces a four-part framework from Deb Dana's polyvagal theory to regulate emotions through awareness and breathwork. Sabrina shares a scripture that helps her return to a calm state, highlighting the integration of spiritual practices with emotional regulation. The episode aims to encourage sharing and community support in handling life's challenges. 00:00 Welcome to TheJuggle Is Real00:14 UnderstandingPhysiological and Psychological States01:24 Sabrina'sPersonal Story: Driver's Permit03:30 Exploring theEmotional Wheel12:12 Four-PartFramework for Emotional Regulation16:27 Conclusion andFinal ThoughtsSupport the showClick here to join the Juggle is Real Community Circle.

What if the path to healing chronic fatigue syndrome and long COVID lies not in medication or supplements, but within our own minds? Discover how special guest Raelan Agle transformed her decade-long battle with chronic fatigue syndrome into a journey of recovery and empowerment. As the creator of a thriving YouTube channel, Raelan Agle shares the evolving stories of resilience and recovery, highlighting a critical shift towards understanding the interconnectedness of stress, emotions, and the autonomic nervous system. Together, we delve into the powerful role lifestyle choices, career paths, and self-perception play in the healing process, as individuals within the chronic illness community are increasingly recognizing the profound connection between emotional and physical well-being.Join us in this enlightening conversation where we explore the revolutionary impact of neuroplasticity and brain retraining practices on chronic symptoms. Through engaging discussions, we reveal how these innovative approaches focus on internal transformation and creating a sense of safety and calm, offering a promising alternative to traditional treatments. Learn how brain retraining, initially designed for chronic pain, is now making waves in treating conditions like Chronic Fatigue Syndrome and long COVID by addressing the brain's response to perceived threats. We invite you to explore the diverse methods and resources available for those eager to embrace this forward-thinking approach to healing and reclaim their lives.Learn more about Raelan Agle's work below:Website - https://raelanagle.com/YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/c/RaelanAgleInstagram - https://www.instagram.com/raelan.agle/My book - Finding Freedom: Escaping From the Prison of Chronic Fatigue Syndrome https://amzn.to/3LJcTgkCourse - Brain Retraining 101: For ME/CFS & Long Covid Recovery raelan-agle-s-school1.teachable.com/p/Brain_Retraining_101This podcast is produced by Alex Klassen.Together we have a therapy agency called Pain Psychotherapy Canada. Learn more about our work on our website and book in for a free 20 minute consultation with one of our therapists: https://www.painpsychotherapy.ca/Our agency MBody Community provides an in depth course to support you in healing from chronic pain and symptoms: https://www.mbodycommunity.com/We also post daily on instagram: @painpsychotherapyFinally check out Tanner's YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@painpsychotherapyDisclaimer: The information provided by Anne and Tanner on this podcast is for general informational and educational purposes only and is not a substitute for professional advice, psychotherapy, or counselling. It you choose to utilize any of the education, strategies, or techniques in this podcast you are doing so at your own risk. Education and techniques discussed in this Podcast originate from Polyvagal Theory, Pain Reprocessing Therapy, Somatic Experiencing, and Emotional Awareness and Expression Therapy. Reference: Peter Levine, Deb Dana, Dr. Porges, Pain Reprocessing Therapy Center, Alan Gordon, Dr. Schubiner, and Dr. Lumley.

HOW TO DEAL WITH GRIEF AND TRAUMA is completely self-funded, produced, and edited by me, Nathalie Himmelrich. Consider making a small donation to support the Podcast: bit.ly/SupportGTPodcast. Thank you! For more information, please visit Nathalie's website, join the podcast's Instagram page, and subscribe to the newsletter to receive updates on future episodes here.About this week's episodeI first encountered Mary Catherine McDonald through her powerful presence on social media, where she consistently shares insightful perspectives on trauma and healing. Her way of showing up with authenticity and clarity immediately drew me in. I was further captivated when I heard her speak in several podcasts and at a recent online trauma conference, where her depth of knowledge and her insights left a lasting impression. Mary Catherine's ability to articulate the complexities of trauma while offering hope and practical guidance has encouraged me to invite her onto the podcast as a guest.Her definition of trauma, which I love, is:Trauma is an unbearable emotional experience that lacks a relational home.About this week's guestMary Catherine (MC) McDonald, PhD, is a research professor and life coach who specializes in the psychology of trauma, stress, and resilience. She has been researching, lecturing, and publishing on the neuroscience, psychology, and lived experience of trauma and stress for over a decade. She is passionate about destigmatizing trauma, stress, and mental health issues in general, as well as reframing our understanding of trauma in order to better understand and treat it.Website: alchemycoaching.lifeIG: @mc.phdTikTok: www.tiktok.com/@mc.phdResources mentioned in this episodeEpisode with Deb Dana: bit.ly/PodDebEpisode with Dr Mary-Frances O'Connor: bit.ly/PodMaryEpisode about Grief Dreams: bit.ly/PodJoshuaSupport the showFind support: Transforming Your Grief Course Support the show: Become a supporter of the show! Starting at $3/month Join Facebook Group - Grief and Trauma Support Network Download the FREE grief resource eBook Book a Discovery Call Leave a review Follow on socials: Instagram Facebook Website

Ever wondered why your chronic pain or symptoms returns even after periods of relief? Learn the secrets to sustaining your healing journey and discover daily practices that can regulate your nervous system for the long run. We share compelling personal stories and client observations that reveal common pitfalls and emphasize the necessity of a lifestyle overhaul. From reshaping your thoughts and beliefs to brain retraining and creating social safety, we'll offer a comprehensive guide to maintaining these essential practices. Despite the effort required, the long-term benefits are undeniably worth it.Unlock the power of Qigong and the refreshing effects of cold showers as part of your daily self-care routine. Tanner shares his personal experience with Qigong and provides resources on his YouTube channel to help you get started. We also uncover the surprising benefits of cold showers on your parasympathetic nervous system. Learn how co-regulation in nature and mindfulness of old coping mechanisms can further contribute to your well-being. Stay open to experimenting with new activities, like cold plunges or engaging with horses, to find what truly works for you. Join us for an inspiring conversation filled with practical tips to help you lead a balanced, healthy lifestyle.This podcast is produced by Alex Klassen.Together we have a therapy agency called Pain Psychotherapy Canada. Learn more about our work on our website and book in for a free 20 minute consultation with one of our therapists: https://www.painpsychotherapy.ca/Our agency MBody Community provides an in depth course to support you in healing from chronic pain and symptoms: https://www.mbodycommunity.com/We also post daily on instagram: @painpsychotherapyFinally check out Tanner's YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@painpsychotherapyDisclaimer: The information provided by Anne and Tanner on this podcast is for general informational and educational purposes only and is not a substitute for professional advice, psychotherapy, or counselling. It you choose to utilize any of the education, strategies, or techniques in this podcast you are doing so at your own risk. Education and techniques discussed in this Podcast originate from Polyvagal Theory, Pain Reprocessing Therapy, Somatic Experiencing, and Emotional Awareness and Expression Therapy. Reference: Peter Levine, Deb Dana, Dr. Porges, Pain Reprocessing Therapy Center, Alan Gordon, Dr. Schubiner, and Dr. Lumley.

You've probably experienced tiring shifts when moving between tasks, environments, and social contexts—from work to home, solitary to social, and stress to calm. In this episode of The Gentle Rebel Podcast, I explore how slip roads, rest stops, and bridges can help us match the pace and rhythm (speeding up and slowing down) of situations and environments. Oxford Services: The Meaning of Meaninglessness Twenty years ago (

DISCLAIMER: We talk about sexual assault and the traumatic effects of it. Please use discretion before listening. When sexual assault happens, whether if it is one incident or repeated over a long time, how do you heal afterwards? What if you don't know the details of the assault? Do you fear you're 'just being dramatic'? I have great news for you: You are able to heal from trauma and the lies that may come with it even if you do not know the details of the traumatic event(s). In many ways, healing through trauma can feel unfair. You may feel like it is a debt you've been given and now it is your responsibility to figure out how to heal from it. Jody Goldie (yes, that is her real name) is a therapist who works with people who suffer from complex trauma. She shares her own personal experience and puts language to the confusing messages your body may be telling you after it experiences trauma. Your body remembers what happened to you, even if your brain cannot piece a story together. Your future does not have to look like your past. Resources: The Body Keeps the Score by Besser van der Kolk - https://www.besselvanderkolk.com/resources/the-body-keeps-the-score Your Resonant Self by Sarah Peyton - https://www.yourresonantself.com/ Deb Dana - https://www.rhythmofregulation.com/ Dr. Dan Siegel - https://drdansiegel.com/ The Huberman Lab - https://hubermanlab.com/ Autumn 2024 playlist: https://open.spotify.com/playlist/2zrAxY3WX5H3SAPn1X05yb?si=402031c44abd4b7a Autumn Worship 2024 playlist: https://open.spotify.com/playlist/4yaM18p2Pjlti4akBtsOIk?si=d0c3bcd53a284ff5 Leave a Review: https://www.podpage.com/head-to-heart/reviews/new/ Follow me on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/headtoheart_podcast/ Website: https://www.podpage.com/head-to-heart/

Julie Cox is the mother of all PANS PANDAS therapists and she has been working with these children and families for the last 20 years after her daughter got the illness. She has poured her personal and professional knowledge and compassion into her therapy work with sufferers. A big part of that is also coaching parents and families on how to survive when the going gets tough - as it frequently does due to the waxing and waning nature of the illness. Sound familiar?! In this warm chat, Julie weaves in her personal experiences and professional expertise. Explaining how validation for parents is important, emphasising how therapists must work with these children differently and recommending lots of resources (Stephen Porges, Deb Dana, Dan Siegel and Dr Ross Greene).  I loved chatting with her and was sorry we ran out of time as we had so much to say. The good news is she has promised to come back later in the year. Thank you, Julie! For more information on her therapy practice in NY  https://www.juliecox.org/pandas-pans-therapy-westchester-ny and her global 1:1 parent coaching sessions at www.parentingwithpans.com/coaching She is about to start a membership with video lessons and group support. 

You cannot to heal from Trauma until you gently learn to become friends with your nervous system. May survivors have adapted to trauma by shutting down or disconnecting from their feelings and sensations.This makes sense when you live in a dangerous and threatening environment. However the patterns of disconnection remain long after the trauma is over. Welcome to a brand new season of The Healing Trauma Podcast. In this first healing trauma conversation, host Monique Koven and Trauma expert Deb Dana discuss the Polyvagal theory and trauma healing. They emphasize the importance of understanding the nervous system and how it shapes our experiences. They highlight the need to start making the nervous system a friend, rather than trying to solve problems without considering its role. They discuss the concept of glimmers, which are small moments of safety and regulation that can reshape the nervous system. Glimmers are seen as a way to build capacity for processing trauma and unresolved experiences.. The polyvagal theory is a foundational concept in understanding trauma and the nervous system.It is important to recognize and appreciate the wisdom of the nervous system and its survival responses. Befriending the nervous system and working with it can lead to a sense of safety and regulation. Glimmers, small moments of safety and regulation, can reshape the nervous system and build capacity for processing trauma. Subscribe To my YOUTUBE channel and watch this and other interviews. https://youtu.be/wYywSBoc53w Become a friend of the podcast for $2.99 a month to help with the cost of keeping things running.https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/monique34/subscribe Deb Dana's Website https://www.rhythmofregulation.com/ Monique's Website: https://www.thehealingtraumapodcast.com/