Podcast appearances and mentions of Richard Schwartz

Have you ever felt like you are carrying something heavy that you cannot quite explain, something that does not even feel like it started with you? A few years ago I traced my own anxious drive back to grandparents I never met, people who were, in a real sense, being chased by wolves. It turns out a lot of what we call “my issues” was handed to us. And that makes it far more workable than it feels. In this episode, I sit down with Dr. Thomas Hübl, the teacher and trauma-integration facilitator who co-wrote the new book Releasing Our Burdens with Dr. Richard Schwartz, the creator of Internal Family Systems. Thomas studies healing as one continuum that runs from the individual to the ancestral to the collective, and he joined me to explain why the thing you keep trying to fix about yourself may not have started with you, and what becomes possible when you stop fighting it and start to thaw it. In This Episode Why the thing you keep trying to fix about yourself may not have started with you, and what that changes The freezer metaphor that explains what trauma quietly costs you every single day Why Thomas calls trauma “a loan from the future,” and how the bill comes due What is really happening when your partner says one thing and your whole body locks up How intergenerational trauma gets passed down, in your nervous system and even in your cells The difference between the resilience you inherited and the burden you inherited Why a whole country can feel stuck and reactive, and what that has to do with your own healing A different definition of healing: not fixing what is broken, but releasing what is frozen This episode is for anyone who has ever looked at their own anxiety, or their drivenness, or that low hum of feeling empty for no reason they can name, and thought, where is this even coming from? If you have done the personal work and still feel like there is a layer underneath you cannot reach, this conversation opens a door. Some of what you carry is not a personal failing. It is inherited. And it can be set down. Episode Breakdown 00:00 Trauma That Didn't Start With You 10:42 Why You're Driven by People You Never Met 13:24 When a Whole Country Can't Calm Down 18:52 The Tension She Carried for Decades 31:41 Trauma Is a Loan From the Future 35:21 Who Pays the Electricity Bill? 39:30 Your Partner Doesn't Have the Remote Control for Your Heart 53:31 Cleaning Up the Living Room We Were Born Into Resources Full episode page (everything in one place, including Thomas's books and where to find him) Free “What's Holding You Back?” Quiz Personal growth coaching and therapy at Growing Self Talk to someone (free consultation) If you take one thing from today, let it be this: some of what you are carrying did not start with you, and it can be released. If something in here landed, the What's Holding You Back quiz is a quick, free place to begin, and if you want to talk it through with a real person, a free consultation with one of our coaches or therapists is just a conversation, no pressure. We work with people across a whole range of experience levels and price points, including newer coaches in our practicum, so there is usually a fit for almost any budget. Come find all of it at GrowingSelf.com. xoxo, Dr. Lisa Marie Bobby Special thanks to this month's sponsors of the podcast: Upwork — When you need specialized talent fast, Upwork gives you access to vetted professionals across 125+ categories, from marketing to web development to operations support. No long recruiting cycles. No guesswork. Just the right person, when you need them. Check it out at upwork.com — posting a job is free. Shopify — The all-in-one platform for building and growing your online business. Visit shopify.com/lhs to explore their tools and access exclusive listener discounts. OSEA — Amazing, clean, science-backed skincare made with the power of the sea. Use code LHS at oseamalibu.com for 10% off your first order. LNutra Prolon — A science-backed, plant-based nutrition program that supports fat loss, metabolism, cellular rejuvenation, and overall longevity. Head to ProlonLife.com/LHS for 15% off your first order + a bonus gift.

This week, Thomas explores how the phenomenon of emergence occurs when we stop trying to escape into a "better" future and instead drop deeply into the present moment.He posits that growth occurs when we stop treating the world as an external object and instead recognize our inherent oneness with the global ecosystem… and that this perception shift is fundamental to all forms of healing.As Thomas says, “You are not in nature, you ARE nature.”This teaching also touches on the trap of “spiritual superiority,” focusing on how true wisdom arises not by shunning anyone who seems less in tune, but by maturing beyond ego-driven divisions and leading, with empathy, by example.✨ Watch the video version of this episode on YouTube:

This week, Thomas sits down with historical trauma specialist Iya Affo for a deep conversation on how to navigate a dysregulated world and the cyclical nature of trauma healing.They share wisdom on how to tread the non-linear path of both individual and collective healing, exploring how to peel back the layers in the healing process, how to find healing modalities that work for you, and the nuances of nervous system regulation in a divisive and propaganda-heavy political climate.Iya also shares how grief and hardship can expand our capacity to love and offers profound hope for transforming our wounds into sources of empathy and service for others.✨ Watch the video version of this episode on YouTube:

We are excited to celebrate the launch of IFS Collected Wisdom: Conversations with Experienced Voices in Internal Family Systems a book that brings together voices, reflections, and lived experience from across the IFS community. This book was created from a desire to honor those voices, and to acknowledge that wisdom in IFS doesn't live in one place or one person. It lives in relationship, in experience, and in the field as it evolves. Thank you for being a listener, for being part of this community,  and for continuing to explore what becomes possible when Self leads. We hope that IFS Collected Wisdom can become a companion in your IFS journey. Here is a link to the IFS Collected Wisdom book contents. The Role of Uncertainty in Mental Health with Sarah Bergenfeld and Martha SweezyIn this episode, we welcome two leading voices in Internal Family Systems therapy for a conversation that bridges neuroscience, sensory experience, and healing. Sarah Bergenfield is a certified Level 3 IFS practitioner, writer, and educator specializing in autistic individuals and couples. Autistic herself, Sarah weaves together IFS, polyvagal theory, predictive processing, and sensory science in her clinical and consultation work. She teaches internationally for clinicians working with neurodiverse clients, and her work reframes autism not as a deficit, but as a condition of sensory surplus. Martha Sweezy is an assistant professor of psychiatry at Harvard Medical School, program consultant and supervisor at the Center for Mindfulness and Compassion at Cambridge Health Alliance, and a psychotherapist in private practice in Northampton, Massachusetts. She teaches IFS nationally and internationally and has authored and co-edited numerous books on the model, including Internal Family Systems Therapy, Second Edition (with Richard Schwartz), Intimacy from the Inside Out (with Toni Herbine-Blank), and Internal Family Systems Therapy for Shame and Guilt.Together, Sarah and Martha are co-authors of Wired to Feel: Autism as a Condition of Sensory Surplus.In this episode, we explore the role of uncertainty in mental health: how it can quietly drive distress and shame, and how IFS offers a path toward resolution. While the conversation has special relevance for autistic systems, the insights apply across all neurologies.

This week, Thomas sits down with Dr. Ruth Lanius, a renowned clinical researcher and psychiatry professor, for a fascinating discussion on the neuroscience of trauma healing and the critical link between the brain's physical balance system and our emotional safety and stability.Dr. Lanius shares groundbreaking brain-imaging research revealing how trauma creates a profound brain-body disconnect, and explains how her "Finding Solid Ground" therapy helps highly dissociative individuals restore internal synchrony, embodiment, and self-compassion.It's an inspiring exploration into the science of individual and collective healing, the importance of attunement in healing relationships, and the hopeful reality that our brains and bodies can recover from trauma.How do you find your purpose in times of turmoil, upheaval, and change? Join Thomas on Wednesday, June 3rd, to explore this topic in a free, live event: ✨ Your Karmic Blueprint:The Key to Building a Purposeful Life. ✨Uncover the hidden architecture shaping your life and get inspired to forge your path forward with greater clarity, groundedness, and confidence.Sign up for free here

5/24/2026 - 1 Corinthians 15:17-22, 51-58 - The Importance of the Resurrection by Richard Schwartz

Aycee Brown is a psychic channel, medium, spiritual guide, and teacher dedicated to helping people unlock their most magical lives. Known as the "Voice of Truth" for her ability to connect individuals with their divine source, Aycee works with those at life's crossroads, guiding them to find clarity, meaning, and a path forward. Her expertise on the role human design, spirituality, and astrology play in relationships has been featured in major outlets like Cosmopolitan, Brides, and Bustle. In February 2026, she shared her profound insights with a wider audience through the release of her debut book, Embody Your Magic, a powerful blueprint for breaking free from conditioning and embracing one's most authentic self. Rooted in a lifetime of spiritual discovery — including gifts she traces back to childhood — Aycee has also explored her healing gifts through the podcast Is My Aura On Straight?. In this episode, host Shay Beider and Aycee Brown explore the profound tools and teachings Aycee has gathered across a lifetime of spiritual work — insights now woven throughout Embody Your Magic. Aycee shares her concept of "The Canyon," a framework for shadow work that isn't a one-time destination but a place we return to throughout life's biggest transitions, and she explains why knowing your story — including what was happening in your family long before you arrived — is the most powerful starting point for any healing journey. The duo discuss psychic channeling, mediumship, and the idea that we all have access to our higher selves and passed loved ones, as well as practical tools like human design, astrology, life path numbers, automatic writing, and Internal Family Systems therapy. Together, Shay and Aycee reflect on how healing asks us first to tell the truth, how our "I am" shapes our destiny, and how embracing our full selves — every part, every lineage, every wound — is not the end of the journey, but the beginning of living our magic. Listen to the complete episode by clicking the player above. Transcripts for this episode are available at: https://www.integrativetouch.org/conversations-on-healing  Show Notes: Learn more about Aycee Brown here Read Aycee's debut book Embody Your Magic Read Aycee's book Your Soul Map: Liberation, Human Design, and the BIPOC Experience Listen to Aycee's podcast Is My Aura On Straight? Learn about The International Association of Near Death Studies Listen to the James Doty's podcast  here Read Into the Magic Shop: A Neurosurgeon's Quest to Discover the Mysteries of the Brain and the Secrets of the Heart by James Doty Read Mind Magic: The Neuroscience of Manifestation and How It Changes Everything by James Doty Read You Are the One You've Been Waiting For (Internal Family Systems) by Richard Schwartz  Read No Bad Parts: Healing Trauma and Restoring Wholeness with the Internal Family Systems Model by Richard Schwartz  Read It Begins with You: The 9 Hard Truths About Love That Will Change Your Life Download the My Human App here This podcast was created by Integrative Touch (InTouch), which is changing healthcare through human connectivity. A leader in the field of integrative medicine, InTouch exists to alleviate pain and isolation for anyone affected by illness, disability or trauma. This includes kids and adults with cancers, genetic conditions, autism, cerebral palsy, traumatic stress, and other serious health issues. The founder, Shay Beider, pioneered a new therapy called Integrative Touch™Therapy that supports healing from trauma and serious illness. The organization provides proven integrative medicine therapies, education and support that fill critical healthcare gaps. Their success is driven by deep compassion, community and integrity.  Each year, InTouch reaches thousands of people at the Integrative Touch Healing Center, both in person and through Telehealth. Thanks to the incredible support of volunteers and contributors, InTouch created a unique scholarship model called Heal it Forward that brings services to people in need at little or no cost to them. To learn more or donate to Heal it Forward, please visit IntegrativeTouch.org  

This week, Thomas explores how true health and healing come from an alignment across the full spectrum of your being: body, mind, emotions, relationships, environment, and spirit.He shares the importance of embracing an integrated and holistic approach to health so we can be more regulated as we deal with the stresses of modern life and recognize our relational wellbeing as an extension of our immune system.Tune in to understand the interdependence of our physical, emotional, and spiritual health, and why it's important to shift from individualized focus to collective healing.✨ Watch the video version of this episode on YouTube:

5/17/2026 - Acts 13:13-43 - The Gospel Story by Richard Schwartz

In this episode, we explore the reality that many people experience on a plant-based or vegan journey: imperfection. From cravings and convenience to social situations, family dynamics, and emotional ties to food, living in alignment with your values isn't always linear—or simple. Inspired by the book No Bad Parts by Richard Schwartz, this episode introduces a powerful shift in perspective: instead of battling the parts of yourself that struggle, what if you listened to them? In this episode you'll learn: Why inner conflict is a natural part of behavior change How to navigate cravings and contradictions without guilt The role of compassion in creating lasting change How to stop all-or-nothing thinking in veganism A new way to relate to yourself through this journey An understanding of the different parts within us, stemming from the Internal Family Systems Framework This episode is an invitation to move from perfection to awareness, and from self-judgment to self-understanding. For all the links mentioned in today's episode, click here or visit brownble.com

This week, Thomas sits down with Kosha Joubert, a longtime collaborator and the CEO of the Pocket Project, for a conversation exploring the global architecture of collective healing and how we can expand beyond the lens of individual therapy to address deeply rooted collective and ancestral trauma.With their combined years of experience working in trauma-informed care, leadership, and global healing, they share their thoughts on the next steps for humanity to address the invisible, frozen structures of trauma that inhibit our evolution and contribute to systems of harm and oppression.By integrating top-down governance with bottom-up grassroots initiatives, Thomas and Kosha believe that communities can melt the "permafrost" of the past to liberate creative energy and agency, overcome widespread disengagement, and co-create a more integrated and resilient world.✨ Watch the video version of this episode on YouTube:

5/10/2026 - Mark 8:22-38 - The Essentials of the Message by Richard Schwartz

This week, Thomas shares a teaching on awareness and perception, exploring how we can shift the way we understand our healing journey, spiritual practices, and each other.It starts with recognizing the lenses that filter the information we receive and how they're shaped by personal and collective trauma. Thomas shares spiritual and meditative practices that can help open these lenses, allowing us to integrate difficult but necessary elements into our consciousness.By expanding our perception and breaking free of limiting frameworks, we can step into a more expansive, intimate, and deeply connected reality.✨ Watch the video version of this episode on YouTube:

5/3/2026 - 2 Corinthians 4:1-6 - Evangelism: The Biblical Foundation by Richard Schwartz

This week, Thomas sits down with Pat McCabe (Woman Stands Shining), an Indigenous leader, speaker, teacher, and global ceremonialist, for a conversation exploring Indigenous perspectives on gender through the concepts of the Men's Nation and Women's Nation.Pat shares Diné and Lakota wisdom on the spiritual aspect of gender roles and biology, and how the specific process of what some cultures refer to as “moon time” is actually an important and unique capacity that creates a deeper connection to the spirit world.She and Thomas also discuss the spiritual implications of our tech-obsessed world and critique the modern “power-over” paradigm that isolates men and forces them into destructive competition. By contrast, Pat envisions a thriving life paradigm where the sacred masculine acts as a protective and supportive force instead of a dominating one, and we return to an “earth economy” rooted in radical abundance and fearless generosity.✨ Watch the video version of this episode on YouTube:

4/26/2026 - Ephesians 2:11-22 - Church Membership: a Shared Mutuality by Richard Schwartz

Once again, I am talking about Internal Family Systems, a therapy created by Dr. Richard Schwartz, and its connection to ecosystem health. Our minds are organized much like an ecosystem, and heal and defend themselves in similar ways, too. I also reference the book The Great Divorce by C.S. Lewis, whose description of the afterlife realms has mirrored the explorations of the depths of my mind. Reach out to Eryn! Support the show

What if the pain you've carried your whole life didn't begin with you? Tami Simon speaks with Richard Schwartz—founder of Internal Family Systems—and psychotherapist and IFS lead trainer Tamala Floyd, author of Listening: When Parts Speak, about the intersection of IFS and ancestral wisdom, and how healing legacy burdens can liberate not only ourselves, but the generations that come after us.This conversation offers genuine transmission—not just concepts about awakening, but the palpable presence of realized teachers exploring the growing edge of spiritual understanding together. Originally aired on Sounds True One.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

4/12/2026 - 1 Corinthians 15:50-58 - The Resurrection: Why You Want to Believe It by Richard Schwartz

In this episode, Niall speaks with Robert Falconer, a writer, consultant, and teacher who has spent nearly two decades working with complex psychological experiences that sit outside conventional therapeutic frameworks. Robert is the author of ten books and specialises in working with people experiencing what Internal Family Systems calls “unattached burdens” — intrusive psychological patterns that seem to originate outside a person's own history. His most recent book, “Spirit”, documents a decade of written dialogues on consciousness and healing. In this conversation, they explore: — Why the belief that minds are isolated and impermeable may contribute to psychological distress — How intergenerational trauma can be passed down through epigenetic mechanisms — The difference between parts of ourselves and external psychological influences — Why fear is the main way intrusive patterns maintain their influence — The role of interoception in mental health, and how Internal Family Systems approaches these cases And more. You can learn more about Robert's work at http://robertfalconer.us. --- In 2023, Bob published his book about IFS and unattached burdens – The Others Within Us: Internal Family Systems, Porous Mind, and Spirit Possession, and it quickly became a best-seller in its category. Prior to that he co-authored Many Minds, One Self (2017) with Richard Schwartz and since then he has published When You're Going Through Hell …Keep Going (2024), and his latest book, Spirit (2025), a summary of many of the journals of his daily dialogues with Spirit. For the past 20 years or so Bob has devoted himself full-time to IFS work (Internal Family Systems Therapy). In that time he has completed all levels of IFS training offered, and has been a program assistant more than 18 times. Bob has been at many workshops and events with Richard Schwartz both as assistant and participant. In addition to studying with many of the other senior IFS trainers, For all of his therapeutic work, both professional and personal, Bob now uses IFS almost exclusively. Before this Bob used and explored many forms of therapy, starting with Ericksonian hypnotherapy which he studied with Carol Erickson. He received his master's degree and hypnotherapist certificate under her tutelage. Then he met and began studying with Jack and Helen Watkins, the creators of Ego State Therapy. Before beginning his graduate work, starting in 1971, Bob was a regular at with the Esalen Institute where he has attended more than 120 events and workshops. At Esalen Bob met and worked with many of the leaders of the human potential movement and focused on Gestalt Therapy mainly with Mariah Fenton Gladys and Christine Price. In the 80s and 90s Bob also studied codependency and addictions with Pia Mellody. --- Interview Links: — Robert's website: https://robertfalconer.us/ — Robert's books: https://amzn.to/4t2AuLX

This week, Thomas sits down for a touching conversation on navigating the complex dynamics of parent-child relationships with father-and-son duo, Rick and Forrest Hanson.In this intimate interview, Rick, a renowned psychologist and author, and Forrest, author and host of the “Being Well” podcast, share their unique and personal perspectives on healthy power dynamics, children's autonomy, identity development, the inevitability of parental mistakes, and what's needed for repair and forgiveness.Thomas brings his own experiences as a parent forward in a dialogue that offers a loving and healthy vision of fatherhood and masculinity. They also discuss family relationships from a bigger-picture perspective, and explore how individual family dynamics reflect broader societal wounds and forge paths for collective healing and generational pattern breaking.✨ Watch the video version of this episode on YouTube:

4/5/2026 - Mark 16:1-8 - What We Have to Stand Upon by Richard Schwartz

This week, Thomas sits down with trauma researcher, life coach, and author Dr. MaryCatherine McDonald, for a conversation on the importance of curiosity in trauma healing, the difficult necessity of turning towards pain, and how to “compost” our wounds into fertile soil for inner growth.They discuss how to shift away from the isolation that trauma creates and lean into connection, empathy, and shared responsibility as part of the healing process. They frame our conscious inquiry into our suffering as a sort of real-world alchemy that transforms the stagnant energy of the past into an integrated future.Ultimately, a special kind of courage is required to investigate trauma with openness and curiosity, and we hope this dialogue inspires some of that courage in anyone watching or listening.✨ Watch the video version of this episode on YouTube:

3/29/2026 - Haggai 2:10-23 - The King Has Come! by Richard Schwartz

This week, Thomas sits down with meditation instructors Susanne Ahlendorf and Martin Bruders for a deep exploration of heart-centered meditation, moving beyond the physical heart to uncover its emotional, energetic, and spiritual layers. Discover why your emotional defenses, aka the "guardians of the heart", are an intelligent part of your healing journey, and how vulnerability leads to deeper connection and a more embodied meditation practice.We also explore a path toward entering the “cave of the heart,” which may sound like traveling to a distant and ethereal place, but is actually an awakening to the reality of your authentic self.✨ Watch the video version of this episode on YouTube:

This week, Thomas sits down with the CEO of Mobius Executive Leadership, Amy Elizabeth Fox, for a conversation about bringing trauma-informed wisdom and embodied presence into leadership, organizations, coaching, and consulting work.They discuss how traditional coaching and leadership development are inadequate for increasingly chaotic times, where unresolved personal and collective trauma create unhealthy environments that lack resilience. Thomas and Amy offer tools and practices for down-regulating stress, creating psychological safety, and fostering a workplace rooted in deep connection and belonging—where creativity drives progress instead of fear.They also discuss Amy's new book co-authored with Nicholas Janni, Leading in Chaos, which you can learn about in more detail below. ✨ Watch the video version of this episode on YouTube:

3/8/2026 - Haggai 2:1-9 - Seeking the Kingdom by Richard Schwartz

Marriage has evolved a lot through the years – and so have the problems and rewards that come with it. Research suggests it benefits our physical and mental health, but it might not seem like it when conflict arises and couples struggle to co-manage a household. With greater social acceptance of a variety of lifestyle choices, many people – especially young women – are thinking twice before tying the knot. In this episode, host Samantha Laine Perfas talks with business professor Debora Spar, psychiatrist and family counselor Richard Schwartz, and bestselling author Eve Rodsky about the role of marriage in modern society.

On today's episode I welcome psychotherapist and author Meg Josephson to the podcast. Her book Are You Mad at Me? names something so many of us feel but rarely say out loud: Did I do something wrong? Are you mad at me? Meg and I talk about the fawn response, people-pleasing, and the parts of us that learned early on to stay ahead of conflict. We explore how "being nice" can disconnect us from ourselves, why grief and anger are essential to healing, and how mindfulness helps us slow down enough to notice what's really happening inside. If you've ever swallowed your needs to keep the peace, felt resentful after saying yes, or worried that one mistake could cost you connection, our conversation will resonate. We Explore: • Why "Are you mad at me?" isn't really a question, but a feeling. • The difference between being nice and being compassionate. • How grief challenges the hope that if we try harder, we'll finally be seen. • Small corrective experiences that help our parts learn we're actually safe. Here's a link to the workshop she mentioned in the episode. About Meg Josephson Meg Josephson, LCSW, is a licensed psychotherapist and the author of the New York Times bestselling book Are You Mad at Me?, which has been translated into over 20 languages. In her private practice, she specializes in trauma-informed care through a mindfulness-based, compassion-focused lens. She holds a Master of Social Work from Columbia University. Episode Sponsor: Cape Cod Institute Deepen your IFS practice at the Cape Cod Institute this summer, now in its 46th year. Choose from 38 half-day courses, either in person on Cape Cod or live online. Spend your mornings learning, and your afternoons applying insights, connecting with colleagues, or exploring the Cape. If you use IFS, this is a rare opportunity to learn directly from the people shaping the model. A dedicated IFS Week features Richard Schwartz and IFS practitioners teaching couples work, addictive processes, leadership, disordered eating, and psychedelic-assisted psychotherapy. Learn more and register at cape.org, and use code theoneinside2026 for $50 off. About The One Inside I started this podcast to help spread IFS out into the world and make the model more accessible to everyone. Seven years later, that's still at the heart of all we do.  Join The One Inside Substack community for bonus conversations, extended interviews, meditations, and more. Find Self-Led merch at The One Inside store. Listen to episodes and watch clips on YouTube. Follow me on Instagram @ifstammy or on Facebook at The One Inside with Tammy Sollenberger. I co-create The One Inside with Jeff Schrum, a Level 2 IFS practitioner and coach. Resources New to IFS? My book, The One Inside: Thirty Days to Your Authentic Self, is a great place to start. Want a free meditation? Sign up for my email list and get "Get to Know a Should Part" right away. Sponsorship Want to sponsor an episode of The One Inside? Email Tammy. 

This week, Thomas sits down with celebrated speaker, posthumanist thinker, poet, teacher, and author, Bayo Akomolafe, for a philosophical and spiritual exploration into how we understand reality and the radical perception shifts and awakenings that are necessary for true social transformation to become possible.In his uniquely poetic way, Bayo interrogates traditional solutions to social and ecological problems that only uphold harmful norms, and offers that real change is brought about through what he calls “cracks”—disruptions to systems and modes of thinking that inspire new ideas instead of trying to bring about change via the ineffective paths that are already built into our failing social structures.He and Thomas discuss the discomfort that comes with ushering in new realities, and how important it is that we lean in to this uncomfortable uncertainty, embrace radical compassion, and rethink our relationship to the more-than-human world.✨ Watch the video version of this episode on YouTube:

Moral theologian Fr. Thomas Berg and philosopher and therapist Dr. Andrea Messineo take on the topic of personal conscience and parts work through a Catholic lens.  We explore the relationships among conscience, parts, the innermost self, the intellect, the will, impulses, and desires.  We address concupiscence and parts, and offer specific examples.  Join us for a fascinating exploration of conscience and parts.  Check out these other episodes:https://youtu.be/bw-zUp2h_TAhttps://youtu.be/f5MNCaCJLychttps://youtu.be/Isxmlx8pQAsDr. Peter's advanced group for Catholic formators: Relating Wholeheartedly with God in Prayer, Mondays from 10:00 AM to 11:30 AM Eastern starting on March 9, 2026.  Find out more here:  https://members.soulsandhearts.com/registrationDr. Gerry's advanced group for Catholic formators: Surviving, Healing, Thriving, and Flourishing - A Path To Greater Integration  Wednesdays from 10:00 AM to 11:30 AM Eastern, starting on March 11, 2026Fr. Thomas Berg's books: Hurting in the Church: A Way Forward for Wounded Catholics: https://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/hurting-in-the-church-fr-thomas-berg/1124597873Choosing Forgiveness: Unleash the Power of God's Grace: https://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/choosing-forgiveness-fr-thomas-berg/1140395384?ean=9781681926537Dr. Andrea Messineo's book, Alone in Church: https://www.amazon.com/ALONE-CHURCH-Andrea-Messineo/dp/1732054290Check out Dr. Messineo's website at andreamessineolpcc.comKey moments:16:15 What are the relationships among one's innermost self, one's parts, and one's conscience?21:25  St. Thomas Aquinas' emphasis on prudence23:30  How parts with emotions have a role in a well-formed conscience and the innermost self does not have a “localized omniscience.”  31:30 What are the relationships among parts and the faculties of the intellect and the will?37:00 Parts are closely connected with impulses and desires, driving agendas40:00  What about addictions, obsessions, and compulsions?45:40  Can a person possess a virtue, but parts of that person not have access to that virtue?56:20  Does the innermost self need any formation from others, or is it complete, as Richard Schwartz maintains?1:08:00 Causal chains that lead to morally problematic behaviors1:17:20  What is concupiscence and does it always need to be lodged in a part?

Daphne Fatter, PhD, is a licensed psychologist, author, and international speaker known for her work integrating EMDR and Internal Family Systems therapy. She wrote Integrating EMDR and Internal Family Systems Therapy 3and has over 20 years of EMDR experience.Daphne has completed more than 460 hours of IFS training, including work with IFS founder Dr. Richard Schwartz, and also practices ancestral healing.She earned her master's from Naropa University and her doctorate from Penn State, then completed a postdoctoral fellowship at The Trauma Center under Dr. Bessel van der Kolk.Daphne previously served as Military Sexual Trauma Coordinator at the Fort Worth VA, has published on trauma and IFS, and now teaches clinicians worldwide while maintaining a private practice in Dallas.In This EpisodeDaphne's websiteDaphne's trainingsBecome a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-trauma-therapist--5739761/support.You can learn more about what I do here:The Trauma Therapist Newsletter: celebrates the people and voices in the mental health profession. And it's free! Check it out here: https://bit.ly/4jGBeSa———If you'd like to support The Trauma Therapist Podcast and the work I do you can do that here with a monthly donation of $5, $7, or $10: Donate to The Trauma Therapist Podcast.Click here to join my email list and receive podcast updates and other news.Thank you to our Sponsors:Jane App - use code GUY1MO at https://jane.appArizona Trauma Institute at https://aztrauma.org/

This week, Thomas sits down with speaker and renowned author of “Wild,” Cheryl Strayed, for a conversation on the profound healing power of writing and creating, the catharsis of truth-telling, and the importance of physical embodiment in trauma recovery.Cheryl shares how grief and trauma left her feeling isolated, and describes her difficult but meaningful journey to healing through community connection. By writing about her life and daring to share her deepest wounds, she found that she was not alone in her struggles, and in fact, none of us ever truly are. She and Thomas discuss how authentic connection can inspire collective compassion and healing, and how art and storytelling have the ability to transform culture by illuminating universal truths.✨ Watch the video version of this episode on YouTube:

Robert Falconer is best known for his extensive involvement with Internal Family Systems (IFS) Therapy as a practitioner, teacher, and writer. For the past decade or more Bob Falconer has devoted himself full-time to IFS work. In that time he has attended all levels of IFS training offered, and has been at many workshops and events with Richard Schwartz both as assistant and participant. In addition to studying with many of the other senior IFS trainers, He also co-authored a book with Richard Schwartz entitled, Many Minds, One Self. His other books include The Others Within Us, When You're Going Through Hell ...Keep Going, and just recently released in December 2025, Spirit. His focus is now on the study of spiritual presence experiences.His new book is OUT NOW!https://robertfalconer.us/spirit-book/--Get in touch: robinsmithshow@gmail.comCall the hotline: +1 (301) 458-0883Follow Robin on Insight Timer: https://insighttimer.com/robinsmithBecome a supporter on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/therobinsmithshowGot a question? We'd love to hear from you!

This week, Thomas sits down with one of our favorite frequent guests; journalist and co-host of the “What is Collective Healing?” podcast, Matthew Green, to explore the profound synergy between spiritual awakening, ethical living, and trauma healing, and how these pursuits converge on the journey of life.They discuss how the "social mirror" of community helps us integrate spiritual insights, why it's so important to meet pain with love, and why moral development requires us to get to the root causes of social issues instead of coming at problems from the top down. It's a fascinating conversation if you're interested in what it looks like to integrate our personal and collective shadows, and what paths are available for us to move toward collective awakening and healing.✨ Watch the video version of this episode on YouTube:

Celebrating the convergence of many brilliant moments and concepts on this day - as the Year of the Fire Horse, a New Moon, Solar Eclipse, Ramadan, Mardi Gras offer their energy and opportunity for us to recognize our patterns, perception and power of love to build connection within and beyond. (Note speed of play might benefit from slowing on this high energy day!) Referencing the work of Dr. Ellen Langer, Jillian Turecki, Dr. Richard Schwartz as ever inspirational - here's to the (chronic!) health of all things

2/15/2026 - Matthew 6:1-6, 16-18 - The Call to Fasting by Richard Schwartz

This week, Thomas sits down with acclaimed essayist, author, and speaker Pico Iyer to discuss travel and writing as meditative practices, the spiritual power of stillness and quiet, and how creative work generates a sense of agency in a chaotic world.Pico shares incredible anecdotes from his international travels, many monastic retreats, decades of journeys with the Dalai Lama, and intimate time spent with beloved musician and Buddhist Leonard Cohen.It's an uplifting conversation on how to pull inspiration from impermanence and see personal challenges as opportunities for transformation and liberation.✨ Watch the video version of this episode on YouTube:

In a world shaped by collective crisis, Raghu Markus and Dr. Thomas Hübl come together to explore inner connection and healing trauma.Interested in learning more about trauma? Grab a copy of Releasing Our Burdens, Thomas's co-authored book with systemic family therapist Dr. Richard Schwartz, HEREThis time on Mindrolling, Raghu and Thomas discuss:Thomas's early call to meditation, spirituality, and a life of serviceLiving within a global ecosystem shaped by overlapping crisis dynamicsReturning to ourselves when we are overwhelmed by fear and painUnderstanding how trauma shuts down parts of the self as a survival responseExamining the lasting effects of trauma on both the mind and bodyThe genetic transmission of trauma across generationsThe role of restorative practices in healing trauma and reversing symptomsDigesting trauma instead of becoming stuck in survival patternsCultivating compassion, patience, and trust in the healing processThe power of presence as a foundation for trauma recoveryHow healing even one part of the self creates fertile ground for deeper integrationSpiritual trauma and how it creates a misalignment within our inner and outer livesSupporting one another in reconnecting with our most powerful resource: inner connectionAbout Thomas Hübl PhD:Thomas Hübl, PhD, is a renowned teacher, author, and international facilitator who works within the complexity of systems and cultural change, integrating the core insights of the great wisdom traditions and mysticism with the discoveries of science. Since the early 2000s, he has led large-scale events and courses on the healing of collective trauma. Hübl is the author of Attuned: Practicing Interdependence to Heal Our Trauma—and Our World, and Healing Collective Trauma: A Process for Integrating Our Intergenerational and Cultural Wounds. He is also the co-author of Releasing Our Burdens with Dr. Richard Schwartz. Hübl has served as an advisor and guest faculty for universities and organizations, as a coach for CEOs and organizational leaders, and is currently a visiting scholar at the Wyss Institute at Harvard University. Keep up with Hübl's upcoming events and livestreams HERE. “What does trauma do? It shuts down a part of ourselves so that we can survive or go through very painful moments better. But the aftereffect, if it's not being taken care of, is a sense of disconnect from ourselves. So, then we try to fill that hole with all kinds of other stuff that is not authentic to us, that is over consumerism, that is not feeding each other, that is creating all kinds of side effects.” –Thomas Hübl, PhDSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

This week, Thomas shares a teaching on how to become intimate with your authentic inner self, what causes us to distance ourselves from presence and self-acceptance, and why it's actually counterproductive to strive towards an “ideal” or “perfect” self.Tune in for a spiritual perspective on understanding your triggers, embracing discomfort, and transforming stagnation into opportunity for new choices. It's an important teaching for anyone working to get themselves unstuck from past patterns and limiting beliefs.✨ Watch the video version of this episode on YouTube:

In today's episode,  we speak with Joanne Twombly about a powerful IFS technique commonly known as "The Fire Drill, based on Joanne's chapter called The Fire Drill: Sorting Through Countertransference with IFS."And we also announce the recent publication of  IFS Collected Wisdom:Conversations with Experienced Voices in Internal Family Systems.We are deeply grateful to all those who contributed to this project, and endorsed this volume, including Richard Schwartz, Susan  McConnell, Cece  Sykes,  Joanne Twombly,  Einat  Bronstein, Bob  Falconer, and many others. We hope the book will be a companion on your IFS journey.Here is a link to the IFS Collected Wisdom contents. 

Story of the Week (DR):Trump's ICE tactics force CEOs to choose between staying silent and risking White House backlash MMCEOs of Target and Minnesota's Biggest Companies Call for ‘De-Escalation' After ShootingMinnesota workers pressure employers to take action against ICE operationsCEOs, long silent on Trump's immigration crackdown, seem to hit their breaking point over killing of Alex Pretti in MinnesotaTarget's incoming CEO tells staff violence in Minneapolis is 'incredibly painful' – without naming Trump or ICEJan 28: Target Unveils Largest Spring Beauty Assortment Ever — Making Trend-Driven, Expert-Backed Beauty More AccessibleTech's top CEOs mum after ICE killings, while leaders like Reid Hoffman, Yann LeCun speak outICE is going too far': Sam Altman, Jamie Dimon, and more CEOs on the unrest in MinnesotaReid Hoffman says business leaders are wrong to stay silent about the Trump administrationApple's Cook says he's 'heartbroken' by Minneapolis events and has spoken with TrumpCompanies reap $22bn from Trump's immigration crackdownMeta blocks links to ICE List across Facebook, Instagram, and ThreadsAs Big Tech CEOs speak up about violence in Minneapolis, 1 in 3 corporate leaders think ICE tensions are ‘not relevant to their business'How ICE Already Knows Who Minneapolis Protesters AreAgents use facial recognition, social media monitoring and other tech tools not only to identify undocumented immigrants but also to track protesters, current and former officials said.Freefloatanalytics data blast:Palantir Technologies: Continues to be a primary partner. In 2025, they were awarded a $30 million contract to build "ImmigrationOS," a platform designed to provide "near real-time visibility" on individuals for the purpose of streamlining apprehensions and tracking self-deportations. Gender Influence Gap -26%RELX: LexisNexis Risk Solutions: Provides ICE with investigative databases used to track, vet, and target individuals. Their current contract is valued at over $22 million. Gender Influence Gap -24%Thomson Reuters: Supplies ICE with access to massive databases, including over 20 billion license plate scans. This data allows agents to track vehicle movement history and identify where individuals may be living or working. Gender Influence Gap -28%Clearview AI: Recently signed a $3.75 million contract (September 2025) to provide facial recognition technology. While officially limited to certain types of investigations, procurement records suggest its use is expanding. Gender Influence Infinity% (no women on advisory board; Hal Lambert and Richard Schwartz as co-CEOs)King “Bumps”JPMorgan's Dimon sees 10.3% pay bump to $43MDisney CEO Bob Iger's Pay Increased 11.5% to $45.8 Million in 2025Goldman Sachs hikes CEO David Solomon's pay 21% to record $47 millionWells Fargo CEO Charlie Scharf Gets 28% Pay Boost to $40 MillionWhy Starbucks is letting Brian Niccol use the company plane for more personal travel“Following a security review of risks, the Starbucks board of directors made the decision to enhance security measures for Brian,” a company spokesperson said. “This included a decision by the board to require Brian to use private aircraft for all travel.”$96M in 2024; $31M in 2024, including temporary housing expenses in the amount of $371,536; and security expenses in the amount of $1,142,700; and $997,392 in expenses related to his use of Starbucks aircraft for commuting and personal usemedian employee: $17,279. CEO Pay ratio 1,794 to 1 (January 1st: 10:10am)Temporary housing expense ratio: 22:1The docu-bribe: At ‘Melania' Premiere, the President Sees ‘Glamour' and Others See GraftAmazon paid Melania Trump's production company $40 million for the movie and then paid another $35 million to promote it.Guests included:Jordan Belfort: The real-life "Wolf of Wall Street."Director Brett Ratner, accused of rape, sexual assault, sexual harrassment, and homophobic abuse by at least 9 women:Melania Trump documentary marks a post-#MeToo comeback for its directorBrett Ratner was all but exiled from Hollywood after facing sexual misconduct allegations. Trump's win gave him an opening to return.Tim Cook (Apple)Andy Jassy (Amazon)Lisa Su (AMD)Eric Yuan (Zoom)Lynn Martin (President of the NYSE)Larry Culp (GE)Sam Altman (OpenAISatya Nadella (Microsoft)Sundar Pichai (Google)Safra Catz (Oracle):David Brown (Victory Capital)David Ellison (Skydance/Paramount)Marc Benioff (Salesforce)Goodliest of the Week (MM/DR):DR: Diversity on Fortune 50 boards: white men haven't been a majority for 3 years in a rowWhereas about a decade ago, white men held two-thirds of the seats on the top 50 Fortune boards, in 2023, for the first time, they held fewer than 50%. In 2024, that number dropped to 48.4%, but this year it climbed back to 49.7%.Since white men make up about 31% of the U.S. population, they still have been very much overrepresented in all three years.DR: National Shutdown: General strike on January 30 aims to push ICE out of Minnesota. Stores closed, protests scheduled in all 50 statesMM: Delivery Robot Gets Stuck on Train Tracks, Gets Obliterated by LocomotiveMM: Judge greenlights Massachusetts offshore wind project halted by Trump administrationVineyard Wind, which joins Revolution Wind, Empire Wind, and Coastal Virginia Offshore Wind in restarted because lawsAssholiest of the Week (MM):WHICH ASSHOLE DO YOU BLAME: Trump's ICE tactics force CEOs to choose between staying silent and risking White House backlashTrump/ICEHis personal military got orders to be “ethical”, but to fuck up everyone - and recruited specifically targeting Call of Duty players and lonely, angry men who wish they could call their friends “retarded” again but it isn't politically correctPalantir and the ICE industrial complexAlex Karp went out of his way to insist to his disgusted employees that AI and Palantir “bolsters civil liberties”Meanwhile, Palantir employees signed a letter from tech employees pondering whether or not they are actively destroying our country and abetting oligarchsBut Palantir, while making some of the creepiest, most heinous software known to man (I mean, worse than CHINA! And we all HATE CHINA, RIGHT???), has $100m in contracts with ICEIn fact, there's a whole private infrastructure complex that's largely not politically agnostic that's made $22bn from ICE and immigration crackdowns - and it's only been a year! That's some awesome shareholder value illegally sending weeping mothers to countries they don't live in with no due process!CEOs (Target, looking at you) DRThey managed to find a pen and craft a strongly worded letter that asked, pretty please, for “de-escalation”, calling ICE out not by NAME of course, but as a “recent challenge” that created “widespread disruption” - and named the White House only as someone they are “communicating” with. Signed by 60 Minnesota CEOs, co-signed in spirit by the Business Roundtable (though not like, officially), they managed to write a whole 199 words about the execution of a VA nurse whose crime was filming the Gestapo in actionTarget's incoming CEO (obviously not the CURRENT CEO Brian Cornell, he's busy polishing his mahogany chair for board meetings where he will be Executive Chair, making as much as a CEO with none of the responsibilities) also addressed the unlawful and unwarranted arrests of Target employees in Minneapolis by thugs - oh, wait, no he didn't - he said, “The violence and loss of life in our community is incredibly painful.” - IT WAS YOUR EMPLOYEES IN THE CROSSHAIRS, SCHMUCK. Target employees are currently skipping work in Minnesota, but solid leadership.Boards of directorsOur analysis of the boards of the Minnesota 60 showed that nearly half of them sit on each other's boards. Basically, you have a massive groupcoward problem - about 25 of the CEOs sit on some other CEOs board or overlap in some way, and the lawyers that carefully crafted the letter absolutely had to have it run through every other board and company lawyer, a task made easier when half of you are on the board with each other. No need for authenticity when you have collective ass covering.Jeffrey EpsteinIf not for those files, there wouldn't NEED TO BE MURDERS so you look somewhere else!InvestorsIf not for “shareholder value”, we could pay attention to humanity and authentic real world values!WHICH ASSHOLE DO YOU BLAME: As You Sow leads criticism of SEC's updated restrictions on smaller shareholdersSmaller investors!For three decades, small investors have used precatory proposals either as a means to extract more data, a means to improve governance, or a means of advertising - many of the non profits use it as a fundraising tool as much as a means of changeMeanwhile, those proposals have almost entirely failed at the vote - though they HAVE succeeded in increasing our data over time (the long arc of disclosure)Then the zone gets flooded by the anti-woke shareholders looking to de-trans companies, and now we have a massive influx of performative proposalsNow that the insiders are in charge (vs. career bureaucrats), in a six month period, virtually all rights have been revoked with threats of paperwork for non complianceAs a final cherry, they are now trying to keep EXEMPT SOLICITATIONS off the filing docket unless you have $5m in stock, so you can't even file your intent to vote directionally unless you're super richJohn CheveddenThe gadflyfather - if not for being the winningest shareholder in history with a nearly obsessive focus on improving shareholder rights, the most boring of topics, the SEC would probably have ignored the whole thingBut the data shows the SEC is taking the time to blanket ignore everyone BUT Chevedden, responding to affirmatively say no to his proposalsJC, no one likes a repeat champion dynastyThe SECBrain Daly at the SEC is out there suggesting maybe NO ONE should vote proxies while SEC Chair Atkins tried to gaslight the entire investment community by claiming the “government shutdown” made it too hard for the poor ole SEC to do its job, so they just gave companies immunity from proposals in lieu of doing their jobsMeanwhile, Atkins has overseen a steep drop in enforcement of accounting irregularities and reporting while simultaneously green lighting crypto scams and Exxon's new “retail vote” capture plan (which gives management anywhere from 5-20% of the company vote depending on the company by auto voting retail that opts in)All with Trump family in the backdrop raking in 1.4bn in the first year of the presidency from crypto token bullshit, asset seizures and sales, and pure graft - none of which will obviously be investigated despite Trump's son actively on a public board of directorsBigger investors!THEY NEVER REALLY CARED ABOUT VOTING ANYWAY! 96% average support for directors, 0.2% of directors globally voted out annually, and of those that are voted out (~20 a year), MORE THAN HALF STAY ON THE BOARD either by bylaw (cumulative voting) or as zombies (Jay Hoag!)And still, NO ONE CARES!WHICH ASSHOLE DO YOU BLAME: Marc Andreessen says the real crisis isn't AI job losses — it's what would have happened without AIThe powerless AI makersSam Altman: Sam Altman Says AI Will Cause Massive Deflation, Making Money Worth Vastly More - that's pretty good if you're already a billionaire, yeah?Dario Amodei: Anthropic CEO Warns That the AI Tech He's Creating Could Ravage Human Civilization - uh, don't create itThe CEO of Microsoft Suddenly Sounds Extremely Nervous About AIAI anxiety is so widespread that veteran Microsoft researchers are having panic attacks because they're making themselves obsoleteThe VC Navel Gazing Manchild EconomyAndreessen's genius was investing in manchildren: Facebook, Roblox, AirBnBVCs actually are giving LESS MONEY to women than the INCREDIBLY LOW AMOUNT they already gave during the AI raceYOU - you should have been a plumber or a peasant or a construction workerHeadliniest of the WeekDR: Cracker Barrel Wants Its Staff to Eat One Thing on Work Trips: Cracker BarrelMM: The company Americans say is the best place to work in 2026 isn't who you thinkCrew Carwash - washing cars is better than tech bro manbaby festsMM: The Worst People Alive Are Obsessed With Meta's Video Recording GlassesWho Won the Week?DR: Resistance in Minnesota and Maine (I'm attempting to be optimistic here, give me a break)MM: 33% of corporate leaders: As Big Tech CEOs speak up about violence in Minneapolis, 1 in 3 corporate leaders think ICE tensions are ‘not relevant to their business'PredictionsDR: January 1st will officially be recognized by the Business Roundtable as "Equality Day"—celebrating the grueling minutes it takes a CEO to earn more than their average worker for the year. Engraved badges with the exact time (10:10 for SBUX) will be created to honor the achievement.Ok, maybe that's silly, my real one is that Target announces its "De-Escalation" Collection: a "Minneapolis-Inspired" line of high-fashion neutral-tone hoodies, specifically marketed as "non-threatening" to ICE agents and heartbroken CEOsMM: Alex Karp, social justice warrior out for the little guy, mass fires his staff at Palantir and replaces it with an AI robot named “The Job Displacer”, does a road show claiming he's “freed” his employees using AI and now they can really have authentic jobs like “bagger at grocery store” and “guy who mixes paint”

This week, Thomas sits down with beloved spiritual teacher and author Jack Kornfield to explore the important and often undervalued spiritual role of the elder, the transformative power of storytelling, and why we should approach our own suffering with love instead of fear.Jack shares some beautiful, poignant stories from his new book, All in This Together, that illustrate how small acts of compassion have a profound ripple effect on our shared consciousness, and how important it is to radically honor each individual's inherent freedom and dignity… even when we feel we have little in common.He and Thomas weave together their understanding of trauma healing, meditation, and social transformation to share a hopeful roadmap to collective healing as we undergo a critical, but difficult, period of transition and unrest.✨ Watch the video version of this episode on YouTube:

This week, Thomas sits down with law professor and Director of the Othering and Belonging Institute, john a. powell, for a deep examination of humans' tendency to become divided, and how the narratives we construct around fearing other groups are actually a symptom of our fundamental drive for connection. They explore how our capacity for connection and community, driven by culture and storytelling, can produce divisiveness, and how we can use these same capacities to increase our empathy for suffering, deepen our embodiment, and overcome the fear, anxiety, and disconnect that result from collective trauma.This is a deep dive into the social and cultural drivers of disconnection, and an inspiring look at how we can tap into our spiritual and ancestral resources to bridge the divides that keep us stuck repeating the harmful patterns of the past.✨ Watch the video version of this episode on YouTube:

This week, Thomas is joined once again by journalist and co-host of the “What is Collective Healing?” podcast, Matthew Green, for a conversation exploring the idea of “global acupuncture.” So what is global acupuncture?It's an approach to collective global healing that leverages our power as connected, social beings to skillfully address the roots of collective trauma at the most critical pressure points in our cultures and societies.Thomas and Matthew discuss how humanity can transition from "adolescence" into mature citizenship by taking ownership of our shared history and integrating the "frozen" past stored within our collective nervous system. They share their hopes that, using these tools, we can turn a world of crisis into a place of global flourishing.✨ Watch the video version of this episode on YouTube:

In this episode of the Kriya Yoga Podcast, we explore how Internal Family Systems (IFS) can support deeper meditation, psychological integration, and an authentic experience of divine communion. Drawing from yogic philosophy, contemplative practice, and modern therapeutic insight, this talk examines why sincere meditation and devotion sometimes feel blocked—even after years of practice. The core insight: spiritual realization flourishes most naturally when the inner world is coherent, stable, and Self-led. Internal Family Systems offers a practical framework for understanding the “parts” of the psyche—protective managers, reactive firefighters, and wounded exiles—and how unresolved inner conflict can quietly interfere with meditation, prayer, and daily spiritual life. When these parts are listened to, integrated, and guided by the Self, inner noise settles and spiritual practice becomes more effortless, spacious, and alive. The episode connects IFS with key yogic principles such as Īśvara Praṇidhāna (communion or surrender to the Divine), samādhi, and Self-realization, suggesting that psychological healing is not a detour from the spiritual path, but often a powerful accelerator of it. This conversation is especially relevant for long-time meditators who feel stalled, seekers struggling to sustain inner peace beyond the cushion, or anyone interested in bridging therapy, yoga, and contemplative spirituality in a grounded, discerning way. Referenced text includes No Bad Parts by Richard Schwartz and prior Kriya Yoga Podcast discussions on psychological wellbeing and spiritual practice. The Kriya Yoga Podcast 202 Spiritual Counseling Spiritual Practice The Kriya Yoga Podcast 95 Healing Blockages of the Heart Chakra -

Today's episode is a little different, in a really wonderful way. I sit down with Dick Schwartz and Jeanne Catanzaro, President and Vice President of the IFS Institute, and partners in both leadership and life. This isn't a traditional interview; it's more like listening in on friends and colleagues talking about the things they care about, the serious, the personal, and the very human. I've been feeling curious about what's happening inside IFS leadership right now. The model keeps growing, reaching more people, and carrying more responsibility with it. I wanted to hear directly from Dick and Jeanne about what that growth and momentum have been like for them, not just in terms of roles and plans, but personally and as partners. In this candid conversation, we explore questions many of you have been holding. What happens as the Institute grows? Is Dick going to retire? What does transition even look like? We talk about all of that, but in a funny, sometimes ridiculous, and very real way. What I hope you hear is the care, thoughtfulness, and humanity behind the scenes of both the IFS Institute and the IFS model. We talk about: Jeanne stepping into leadership and visibility over time What it means to steward a model that's bigger than any one person Succession, responsibility, and caring for the future of IFS Collaboration and "sharing the stage" Knowing when to take a break from "parts talk" Bringing IFS beyond the therapy room and into the wider world Holding research, spirituality, and accessibility at the same time Finding balance between work, partnership, family, and rest Favorite shows, hobbies, and Firefighter behaviors There's a lot of warmth here, some laughter, a little potty talk, and plenty of insight. Links: IFS Institute Jeanne Catanzaro Dick Schwartz Word of the Year on Substack Episode Sponsor This episode is sponsored by the Unblend.me web app. You know those moments between sessions when something comes up and you need a gentle nudge to pause, slow down and go inside? The Unblend app helps you do just that. It's IFS informed, HIPAA compliant, and guides you through checking in with your parts to calm your nervous system. Learn more and try it for free at Unblend.me About The One Inside I started this podcast to help spread IFS out into the world and make the model more accessible to everyone. Seven years later, that's still at the heart of all we do.  Join The One Inside Substack community for bonus conversations, extended interviews, meditations, and more. Find Self-Led merch at The One Inside store. Listen to episodes and watch clips on YouTube. Follow me on Instagram @ifstammy or on Facebook at The One Inside with Tammy Sollenberger. I co-create The One Inside with Jeff Schrum, a Level 2 IFS practitioner and coach. Resources New to IFS? My book, The One Inside: Thirty Days to Your Authentic Self, is a great place to start. Want a free meditation? Sign up for my email list and get "Get to Know a Should Part" right away. Sponsorship Want to sponsor an episode of The One Inside? Email Tammy. 

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In this live episode, Tricia Eastman joins to discuss Seeding Consciousness: Plant Medicine, Ancestral Wisdom, Psychedelic Initiation. She explains why many Indigenous initiatory systems begin with consultation and careful assessment of the person, often using divination and lineage-based diagnostic methods before anyone enters ceremony. Eastman contrasts that with modern frameworks that can move fast, rely on short trainings, or treat the medicine as a stand-alone intervention. Early Themes: Ritual, Preparation, and the Loss of Container Eastman describes her background, including ancestral roots in Mexico and her later work at Crossroads Ibogaine in Mexico, where she supported early ibogaine work with veterans. She frames her broader work as cultural bridging that seeks respect rather than fetishization, and assimilation into modern context rather than appropriation. Early discussion focuses on: Why initiatory traditions emphasize purification, preparation, and long timelines Why consultation matters before any high-intensity medicine work How decades of training shaped traditional initiation roles Why people can get harmed when they treat medicine as plug and play Core Insights: Alchemy, Shadow, and Doing the Work A major throughline is Eastman's critique of the belief that a psychedelic alone will erase trauma. She argues that shadow work remains part of the human condition, and that healing is less about a one-time fix and more about building capacity for relationship with the unconscious. Using alchemical language, she describes "nigredo" as fuel for the creative process, not as something to eliminate forever. Key insights include: Psychedelics are tools, not saviors You cannot outsource responsibility to a pill, a modality, or a facilitator Progress requires practice, discipline, and honest engagement with what arises "Healing" often shows up as obstacles encountered while trying to live and create Later Discussion and Takeaways: Iboga, Ethics, and Biocultural Stewardship Joe and Tricia move into a practical and ethically complex discussion about iboga supply chains, demand pressure, and the risks of amplifying interest without matching it with harm reduction and reciprocity. Eastman emphasizes medical screening, responsible messaging, and supporting Indigenous-led stewardship efforts. She also warns that harm can come from both under-trained modern facilitators and irresponsible people claiming traditional legitimacy. Concrete takeaways include: Treat iboga and ibogaine as high-responsibility work that demands safety protocols Avoid casual marketing that encourages risky self-administration Support Indigenous-led biocultural stewardship and reciprocity efforts Give lineage carriers a meaningful seat at the table in modern policy and clinical conversations Frequently Asked Questions Who is Tricia Eastman? Tricia Eastman is an author, facilitator, and founder of Ancestral Heart. Her work focuses on cultural bridging, initiation frameworks, and Indigenous-led stewardship. What is Seeding Consciousness about? The book examines plant medicine through initiatory traditions, emphasizing consultation, ritual, preparation, and integration rather than reductionistic models. Why does Tricia Eastman critique modern psychedelic models? She argues that many models remove the ritual container and long-form preparation that reduce risk and support deeper integration. Is iboga or ibogaine safe? With the right oversite, yes. Eastman stresses that safety depends on cardiac screening, careful protocols, and experienced oversight. She warns against informal or self-guided use. How can people support reciprocity and stewardship? She encourages donating or supporting Indigenous-led biocultural stewardship initiatives like Ancestral Heart and aligning public messaging with harm reduction. Closing Thoughts This episode makes a clear case that Tricia Eastman Seeding Consciousness is not only a book about psychedelics, but a critique of how the field is developing. Eastman argues that a successful future depends on mature containers, serious safety culture, and respectful partnership with lineage carriers, especially as interest in iboga and ibogaine accelerates. Links https://www.ancestralheart.com https://www.innertraditions.com/author/tricia-eastman Transcript Joe Moore Hello, everybody. Welcome back. Joe Moore with you again from Psychedelics Today, joined today by Tricia Eastman. Tricia, you just wrote a book called Seeding Consciousness. We're going to get into that a bunch today, but how are you today? [00:00:16.07] - Tricia Eastman I'm so good. It's exciting to be live. A lot of the podcasts I do are offline, and so it's like we're being witnessed and feels like just can feel the energy behind It's great. [00:00:31.11] - Joe Moore It's fun. It's a totally different energy than maybe this will come out in four months. This is real, and there's people all over the world watching in real-time. And we'll get some comments. So folks, if you're listening, please leave us some comments. And we'd love to chat a little bit later about those. [00:00:49.23] - Tricia Eastman I'm going to join the chat so that I can see... Wait, I just want to make sure I'm able to see the comments, too. Do I hit join the chat? [00:01:01.17] - Joe Moore Sometimes you can, sometimes you can't. I can throw comments on the screen so we can see them together. [00:01:07.02] - Tricia Eastman Cool. [00:01:08.03] - Joe Moore Yeah. So it'll be fun. Give us comments, people. Please, please, please, please. Yeah, you're all good. So Tricia, I want to chat about your book. Tell us high level about your book, and then we're going to start digging into you. [00:01:22.10] - Tricia Eastman So Seeding Consciousness is the title, and I know it's a long subtitled Plant Medicine, Ancestral Wisdom, Psychedelic Initiation. And I felt like it was absolutely necessary for the times that we are in right now. When I was in Gabon in 2018, in one of my many initiations, as as an initiative, the Fung lineage of Buiti, which I've been practicing in for 11 years now, I was given the instructions. I was given the integration homework to write this book. And I would say I don't see that as this divine thing, like you were given the assignment. I think I was given the assignment because it's hard as F to write a book. I mean, it really tests you on so many levels. I mean, even just thinking about putting yourself out there from a legal perspective, and then also, does it make any sense? Will anyone buy it? And on Honestly, it's not me. It's really what I was given to write, but it's based on my experience working with several thousand people over the years. And really, the essence of it is that in our society, we've taken this reductionistic approach in psychedelics, where we've really taken out the ritual. [00:02:54.05] - Tricia Eastman Even now with the FDA trial for MDMA for PTSD. There's even conversations with a lot of companies that are moving forward, psychedelics, through the FDA process, through that pathway, that are talking about taking the therapy out. And the reality is that in these ancient initiatic traditions, they were very long, drawn out experiences with massive purification rituals, massive amounts of different types of practice in order to prepare oneself to meet the medicine. Different plants were taken, like vomatifs and different types of purification rituals were performed. And then you would go into this profound initiatic experience because the people that were working with you that were in, we call it the Nema, who gives initiations, had decades of training and experience doing these types of initiatic experiences. So if you compare that to the modern day framework, we have people that go online and get a certificate and start serving people medicine or do it in a context where maybe there isn't even an established container or facilitator whatsoever. And so really, the idea is, how can we take the essence of this ancient wisdom wisdom, like when you look at initiation, the first step is consultation, which is really going deep into the history of the individual using different types of techniques that are Indigenous technologies, such as different forms of divination, such as cowrie shell readings. [00:04:52.18] - Tricia Eastman And there's different types of specific divinations that are done in different branches of And before one individual would even go into any initiation, you need to understand the person and where they're coming from. So it's really about that breakdown of all of that, and how can we integrate elements of that into a more modern framework. [00:05:24.23] - Joe Moore Brilliant. All right. Well, thank you for that. And let's chat about you. You've got a really interesting past, very dynamic, could even call it multicultural. And you've got a lot of experience that informed this book. So how did this stuff come forward for you? [00:05:50.02] - Tricia Eastman I mean, I've never been the person to seek anything. My family on my mother's side is from Mexico, from Oaxaca, Trique, Mixtec, and Michica. And we had a long lineage of practice going back to my, at least I know from my great, great grandmother, practicing a blend of mestiza, shamanism, combining centerea and Catholicism together. So it's more of like a syncratic mestiza, mestiza being mixed tradition. And so I found it really interesting because later on, when my grandfather came to the United States, he ended up joining the military. And in being in the US, he didn't really have a place. He's very devout spiritual man, but he didn't have a place to practice this blended spiritual tradition. So the mystical aspect of it went behind. And as I started reconnecting to my ancestral lineage, this came forth that I was really starting to understand the mystical aspect of my ancestry. And interestingly, at the same time, was asked to work at Crossroads Abigain in Mexico. And it's so interesting to see that Mexico has been this melting pot and has been the place where Abigain has chosen to plant its roots, so to say, and has treated thousands of veterans. [00:07:36.28] - Tricia Eastman I got to be part of the group of facilitators back over 10 years ago. We treated the first Navy Seals with Abogaine, and that's really spurred a major interest in Abogaine. Now it's in every headline. I also got 10 I got initiated into the Fung lineage of Buiti and have really studied the traditional knowledge. I created a nonprofit back in 2019 called Ancestral Heart, which is really focused on Indigenous-led stewardship. Really, the book helps as a culmination of the decade of real-world experience of combining My husband, Dr. Joseph Barzulia. He's a psychologist. He's also a pretty well-known published researcher in Abigain and 5MEO-DMT, but also deeply spiritual and deeply in respect for the Indigenous traditions that have carried these medicines before us. So we've really been walking this complex path of world bridging between how we establish these relationships and how we bring some of these ancient knowledge systems back into the forefront, but not in a way of fetishizing them, but in a way of deeply respecting them and what we can learn, but from our own assimilation and context versus appropriation. So really, I think the body of my work is around that cultural bridging. [00:09:31.07] - Joe Moore That's brilliant. And yeah, there's some really fun stuff I learned in the book so far that I want to get into later. But next question is, who is your intended audience here? Because this is an interesting book that could hit a few categories, but I'm curious to hear from you. [00:09:49.02] - Tricia Eastman It's so funny because when I wrote the book, I wasn't thinking, oh, what's my marketing plan? What's my pitch? Who's my intended audience? Because it was my homework, and I knew I needed to write the book, and maybe that was problematic in the sense that I had to go to publishers and have a proposal. And then I had to create a formula in hindsight. And I would say the demographic of the book mirrors the demographic of where people are in the psychedelic space, which It's skewed slightly more male, although very female. I think sex isn't necessarily important when we're thinking about the level of trauma and the level of spiritual healing and this huge deficit that we have in mental health, which is really around our disconnection from our true selves, from our heart, from our souls, from this idea of of what Indigenous knowledge systems call us the sacred. It's really more of an attitude of care and presence. I'm sure we could give it a different name so that individuals don't necessarily have any guard up because we have so much negative conditioning related to the American history of religion, which a lot of people have rejected, and some have gone back to. [00:11:37.06] - Tricia Eastman But I think we need to separate it outside of that. I would say the demographic is really this group of I would say anywhere from 30 to 55 male females that are really in this space where maybe they're doing some of the wellness stuff. They're starting to figure some things out, but it's just not getting them there. And when something happens in life, for example, COVID-19 would be a really great example. It knocks them off course, and they just don't have the tools to find that connection. And I would say it even spans across people that do a lot of spiritual practice and maybe are interested in what psychedelics can do in addition to those practices. Because when we look at my view on psychedelics, is they fit within a whole spectrum of wellness and self-care and any lineage of spiritual practice, whether it's yoga or Sufism or Daoist tradition. But they aren't necessarily the thing that... I think there's an over focus on the actual substance itself and putting it on a pedestal that I think is problematic in our society because it goes back to our religious context in the West is primarily exoteric, meaning that we're seeking something outside of ourselves to fulfill ourselves. [00:13:30.29] - Tricia Eastman And so I think that when we look at psychedelic medicines as this exoteric thing versus when we look at initiatory traditions are about inward and direct experience. And all of these spiritual practices and all of these modalities are really designed to pull you back into yourself, into having a direct relationship with yourself and direct experience. And I feel like the minute that you are able to forge that connection, which takes practice and takes discipline, then you don't need to necessarily look at all these other tools outside of yourself. It's like one of my favorite analogies is the staff on the Titanic were moving the furniture around as it was sinking, thinking that they might save the boat from sinking by moving the furniture around. I think that's how we've been with a lot of ego-driven modalities that aren't actually going into the full unconscious, which is where we need to go to have these direct experiences. Sorry for the long answer, but it is for everybody, and it's not just about psychedelics. Anyone can take something from this doing any spiritual work. But we talk a lot about the Indigenous philosophy and how that ties in alongside with spiritual practice and more of this inner way of connecting with oneself and doing the work. [00:15:21.22] - Tricia Eastman And I think also really not sugar coating it in the sense that the psychedelics aren't going to save us. They're not going to cure PTSD. Nothing you take will. It's you that does the work. And if you don't do the work, you're not going to have an 87 % success rate with opioid use disorder or whatever it is, 60 something % for treatment-resistant depression or whatever. It's like you have to do the work. And so we can't keep putting the power in the modality reality or the pill. [00:16:03.18] - Joe Moore Yeah, that makes sense. So you did an interesting thing here with this book, and it was really highlighting aspects of the alchemical process. And people don't necessarily have exposure. They hear the words alchemy. I get my shoulders go up when I hear alchemizing, like transmutation. But it's a thing. And how do we then start communicating this from Jung? I found out an interesting thing recently as an ongoing student. Carl Jung didn't necessarily have access to all that many manuscripts. There's so many alchemical manuscripts available now compared to what he had. And as a result, our understanding of alchemy has really evolved. Western alchemy, European alchemy, everybody. Perhaps Kmetic, too. I don't know. You could speak to that more. I don't keep track of what's revealed in Egypt. So it's really interesting to present that in a forward way? How has it been received so far? Or were you nervous to present this in this way? [00:17:25.10] - Tricia Eastman I mean, honestly, I think the most important The important thing is that in working with several thousand people over the years, people think that taking the psychedelic and the trauma is going to go away. It's always there. I mean, we We archetypically will have the shadow as long as we need the shadow to learn. And so even if we go into a journey and we transcend it, it's still there. So I would say that the The feedback has been really incredible. I mean, the people that are reading... I mean, I think because I'm weaving so many different, complex and deep concepts into one book, it might be a little harder to market. And I think the biggest bummer was that I was really trying to be respectful to my elders and not say anything in the title about Iboga and Abigain, even though I talk a lot about it in the book, and it's such a hot topic, it's really starting to take off. But the people that have read it really consider it. They really do the work. They do the practices in the book, and I'm just getting really profound feedback. So that's exciting to me because really, ultimately, alchemy... [00:18:55.22] - Tricia Eastman Yeah, you're right. It gets used Used a lot in marketing lingo and sitting in the depth of the tar pit. For me, when I was in Gabon, I remember times where I really had to look at things that were so dark in my family history that I didn't even realize were mine until later connected to my lineage. And the dark darkness connected to that and just feeling that and then knowing really the truth of our being is that we aren't those things. We're in this process of changing and being, and so nothing is is fixed, but there is a alchemical essence in just learning to be with it. And so not always can we just be with something. And and have it change, but there are many times that we can actually just be with those parts of ourselves and be accepting, where it's not like you have to have this intellectualized process It's just like, first you have the negrado, then you tune into the albeda, and you receive the insights, and you journal about it, and da, da, da, da, da Action, Mars aspect of it, the rubeda of the process. It's not like that at all. [00:20:44.15] - Tricia Eastman It's really that the wisdom that comes from it because you're essentially digesting black goo, which is metaphoric to the oil that we use to power all of society that's pulled deep out of the Earth, and it becomes gold. It becomes... And really, the way I like to think of it is like, in life, we are here to create, and we are not here to heal ourselves. So if you go to psychedelic medicine and you want to heal yourself, you're going to be in for... You're just going to be stuck and burnt out because that's not what we're here to do as human beings, and you'll never run out of things to heal. But if you You think of the negrado in alchemy as gasoline in your car. Every time you go back in, it's like refilling your gas tank. And whatever you go back in for as you're moving in the journey, it's almost like that bit of negrado is like a lump of coal that's burning in the gas tank. And that gets you to the next point to which there's another thing related to the creative process. So it's like As you're going in that process, you're going to hit these speed bumps and these obstacles in the way. [00:22:07.29] - Tricia Eastman And those obstacles in the way, that's the healing. So if you just get in the car in the human vehicle and you drive and you continue to pull out the shadow material and face it, you're going to keep having the steam, but not just focus on it, having that intention, having that connection to moving forward in life. And I hate to use those words because they sound so growth and expansion oriented, which life isn't always. It's evolutionary and deevolutionary. It's always in spirals. But ultimately, you're in a creative process would be the best way to orient it. So I think when we look at alchemy from that standpoint, then it's productive. Effective. Otherwise, it sounds like some brand of truffle salt or something. [00:23:09.12] - Joe Moore Yeah, I think it's a... If people want to dig in, amazing. It's just a way to describe processes, and it's super informative if you want to go there, but it's not necessary for folks to do the work. And I like how you framed it quite a bit. So let's see. There is one bit, Tricia, that my ears really went up on this one point about a story about Actually, let me do a tangent for you real quick, and then we're going to come back to this story. So are you familiar with the tribe, the Dogon, in Africa? Of course. Yeah. So they're a group that looks as though they were involved in Jewish and/or Egyptian traditions, and then ended up on the far side of like, what, Western Africa, far away, and had their own evolution away from Egypt and the Middle East. Fascinating. Fascinating stories, fascinating astronomy, and much more. I don't know too much about the religion. I love their masks. But this drew an analogy for me, as you were describing that the Buiti often have stories about having lineage to pre-dynastic Egyptian culture. I guess we'll call it that for now, the Kometic culture. [00:24:44.23] - Joe Moore I had not heard that before. Shame on me because I haven't really read any books about Buiti as a religion or organization, or anything to this point. But I found that really interesting to know that now, at least I'm aware of two groups claiming lineage to that ancient world of magic. Can you speak about that at all for us? Yeah. [00:25:09.24] - Tricia Eastman So first off, there really aren't any books talking about that. Some of the things I've learned from elders that I've spoke with and asked in different lineages in Masoco and in Fong Buiti, there's a few things. One, We lived in many different eras. Even if you go into ancient texts of different religions, creation stories, and biblical stories, they talk about these great floods that wiped out the planet. One of the things that Atum talks about, who is one of my Buiti fathers who passed a couple years ago, is Is the understanding that before we were in these different areas, you had Mu or Lumaria, you had Atlantis, and then you had our current timeline. And the way that consciousness was within those timelines was very different and the way the Earth was. You had a whole another continent called Atlantis that many people, even Plato, talks about a very specific location of. And what happened, I believe during that time period, Africa, at least the Saharan band of the desert was much more lush, and it was a cultural melting pot. So if you think about, for example, the Pygmy tribes, which are in Equatorial Africa, they are the ones that introduced Iboga to the Buiti. [00:27:08.08] - Tricia Eastman If you look at the history of ancient Egypt, what I'm told is that the Pygmies lived in Pharaonic Egypt, all the way up until Pharaonic Egypt. And there was a village. And if you look on the map in Egypt, you see a town called Bawiti, B-A-W-I-T-I. And that is the village where they lived. And I have an interesting hypothesis that the God Bess, if you look at what he's wearing, it's the exact same to a T as what the Pygmies wear. And the inspiration for which a lot of the Buiti, because they use the same symbology, because each part of the outfit, whether it's the Mocingi, which is like this animal skin, or the different feathers, they use the parrot feather as a symbology of speech and communication, all of these things are codes within the ceremony that were passed along. And so when you look at Bess, he's wearing almost the exact same outfit that the Pygmies are wearing and very similar to if you see pictures of the ceremonies of Misoko or Gonde Misoko, which I would say is one of the branches of several branches, but that are closer to the original way of Buiti of the jungle, so closer to the way the Pygmies practice. [00:28:59.16] - Tricia Eastman So If you look at Bess, just to back my hypothesis. So you look at Neteru. Neteru were the... They called them the gods of Egypt, and they were all giant. And many say the word nature actually means nature, but they really represented the divine qualities of nature. There's best. Look at him. And a lot of the historians said he's the God of Harmeline and children and happiness. I think he's more than the God of Harmeline, and I think that the Pygmies worked with many different plants and medicines, and really the ultimate aspect of it was freedom. If you think about liberation, like the libation, number one, that's drunkiness. Number two, liberation, you of freeing the joyous child from within, our true nature of who we are. You look at every temple in Egypt, and you look at these giant statues, and then you have this tiny little pygmy God, and there's no other gods that are like Bess. He's one of a kind. He's in his own category. You've You've got giant Hathor, you've got giant Thoth, you've got giant Osiris, Isis, and then you've got little tiny Bess. And so I think it backs this hypothesis. [00:30:48.27] - Tricia Eastman And my understanding from practitioners of Dogon tradition is that they also believe that their ancestors came from Egypt, and they definitely have a lot of similarity in the teachings that I've seen and been exposed to just from here. I mean, you can... There's some more modern groups, and who's to know, really, the validity of all of it. But there are some, even on YouTube, where you can see there's some more modern Dogon temples that are talking in English or English translation about the teachings, and they definitely line up with Kamehdi teachings. And so my hypothesis around that is that the Dogon are probably most likely pygmy descendants as, And the pygmy were basically run out of Bawiti because there was jealousy with the priest, because there was competition, because all of the offerings that were being made in the temple, there was a lot of power, connected to each of the temples. And there was competitiveness even amongst the different temples, lining the Nile and all of that, of who was getting the most offerings and who was getting the most visits. And so the Pygmies essentially were run out, and they migrated, some of them migrated south to Gabon and Equatorial Africa. [00:32:43.07] - Tricia Eastman And then If you think about the physical changes that happened during these planetary catastrophes, which we know that there had been more than one based on many historical books. So that whole area went through a desertification process, and the Equatorial rainforest remained. So it's highly likely even that Iboga, at one point, grew in that region as well. [00:33:18.00] - Joe Moore Have you ever seen evidence of artwork depicting Iboga there in Egypt? [00:33:24.17] - Tricia Eastman There are several different death temples. I'm trying to remember the name of the exact one that I went to, but on the columns, it looked like Iboga trees that were carved into the columns. And I think what's interesting about this... So Seychet is the divine scribe, the scribe of Egyptian wisdom. And she was basically, essentially the sidekick of Thoth. Thoth was who brought a lot of the ancient wisdom and people like Pythagoras and many of the ancient philosophers in Roman times went and studied in a lot of these Thoth lineage mystery schools. When you look at the the river of the Nile on the east side, east is the energy liturgy of initiation. It's always like if you go into a sweat lodge or if you see an ancient temple, usually the doorway is facing the east. West is where the sun sets, and so that's the death. And what's interesting about that is that it was on the west side in the death temple that you would see these aboga plants. But also Seixat was the one who was the main goddess depicted in the hieroglyphs, and there was other hieroglyphs. I mean, if you look at the hieroglyphs of Seixat, it looks like she has a cannabis leaf above her head, and a lot of people have hypothesized that, that it's cannabis. [00:35:16.03] - Tricia Eastman Of course, historians argue about that. And then she's also carrying a little vessel that looks like it has some mushrooms in it. And obviously, she has blue Lotus. Why would she be carrying around blue Lotus and mushrooms? I don't know. It sounds like some initiation. [00:35:36.19] - Joe Moore Yeah, I love that. Well, thanks so much for going there with me. This photo of Seixet. There's some good animations, but everybody just go look at the temple carvings picturing this goddess. It's stunning. And obviously, cannabis. I think it's hard to argue not. I've seen all these like, mushroom, quote, unquote, mushroom things everywhere. I'm like, Yeah, maybe. But this is like, Yes, that's clear. [00:36:06.27] - Tricia Eastman And if you look at what she's wearing, it's the exact same outfit as Bess, which is classic Basically, how the medicine woman or medicine man or what you would call shaman, the outfit that the healers would wear, the shamans or the oracles, those of the auracular arts, different forms of divination would wear. So if you really follow that and you see, Oh, what's Isis wearing? What's Hathor wearing? What's Thoth wearing? You can tell she's very specifically the healer. And it's interesting because they call her the divine scribe. So she's actually downloading, my guess is she's taking plants and downloading from the primordial. [00:37:02.00] - Joe Moore Well, okay. Thanks for bringing that up. That was a lovely part of your book, was your... There's a big initiation sequence, and then you got to go to this place where you could learn many things. Could you speak to that a little bit? And I hope that's an okay one to bring up. [00:37:22.22] - Tricia Eastman Are you talking about the time that I was in initiation and I went to the different ashrams, the different realms in, like Yogananda calls them astral schools that you go and you just download? It seemed like astral schools, but it seemed like it was a Bwiti initiation, where you were in silence for three days, and then Yeah, that one. So there were several different... I mean, I've done seven official initiations, and then I've had many other initiatic experiences. And I would say this one was incredible. Incredibly profound because what it showed me first was that all of the masters of the planet, it was showing me everyone from Kurt Cobain to Bob Marley to Einstein, all the people that had some special connection to an intelligence that was otherworldly, that they were essentially going to the same place, like they were visiting the same place, and they would go. And so the first thing I noticed was that I recognized a lot of people, and current, I'm not going I don't want to say names of people, but I recognize people that are alive today that I would say are profound thinkers that were going to these places as well. [00:38:57.05] - Tricia Eastman And interestingly, then I was taken into one of the classrooms, and in the classroom, this one, specifically, it showed me that you could download any knowledge instantaneously That essentially, having a connection to that school allowed you to download music or understand very complex ideas ideas of mathematics or physics or science that would take people like lifetimes to understand. So it was essentially showing this. And a lot of people might discredit that, that that might be a specific... That we as humans can do that. Well, I'm not saying that it's not that. I don't I don't want to say that it's anything. But what I can say is that I have definitely noticed the level of access that I have within my consciousness. And also what I notice with the masters of Bwiti, specifically in terms of the level of intelligence that they're accessing and that it's different. It's got a different quality to it. And so it was a really profound teaching. And one of the things, too, that I've learned is I use it to help me learn specific things. I don't know if I can give a positive testimonial, but I am learning French. [00:40:55.00] - Tricia Eastman And I noticed when I was in Aspen at the Abigain meeting, and I was with Mubeiboual, who speaks French, I started saying things French that I didn't even realize that I knew to say. I've had these weird moments where I'm actually using this tool And I'm also using it. I have a Gabonese harp. I don't know if you can see it up on the shelf over there. But I also went and asked for some help with downloading some assistance in the harp, then we'll see how that goes. [00:41:38.17] - Joe Moore Yeah. So that's brilliant. I'm thinking of other precedent for that outside of this context, and I can think of a handful. So I love that, like savant syndrome. And then there's a classic text called Ars Notoria that helps accelerate learning, allegedly. And then there's a number of other really interesting things that can help us gain these bits of wisdom and knowledge. And it does feel a little bit like the Dogon. The story I get is the receiving messages from the dog star, and therefore have all sorts of advanced information that they shouldn't we call it. Yeah. Yeah, which is fascinating. We have that worldwide. I think there's plenty of really interesting stuff here. So what I appreciated, Tricia, about how you're structuring your book, or you did structure your book, is that it it seems at the same time, a memoir, on another hand, workbook, like here are some exercises. On the other hand, like here's some things you might try in session. I really appreciated that. It was like people try to get really complicated when we talk about things like IFS. I'm like, well, you don't necessarily have to. You could. Or is this just a human thing, a human way to look at working with our parts? [00:43:20.15] - Joe Moore I don't know. Do you have any thoughts about the way you were approaching this parts work in your book versus how complicated some people make it feel? [00:43:30.00] - Tricia Eastman Yeah. I find that this is just my personal opinion, and no way to discredit Richard Schwartz's work. But parts work has existed in shamanism since forever. When we really look at even in ancient Egypt, Issus, she put Osiris act together. That was the metaphorical story of soul retrieval, which is really the spiritual journey of us reclaiming these pieces of ourselves that we've been disconnected from a society level or individually. And within the context of parts work, it's very organic and it feels other worldly. It's not like there's ever a force where I'm in the process with someone. And a lot of times I would even go into the process with people because they weren't accustomed to how to work with Iboga or game, and so they would be stuck. And then the minute I was like, you know, Iboga, in the tradition, it's really about... It's like the game Marco Polo. It's call and response. And so you're really an active participant, and you're supposed to engage with the spirits. And so the minute that things would show up, it'd be more about like, oh, what do you see? What's coming up here? Asking questions about it, being curious. [00:45:17.07] - Tricia Eastman If you could engage with it, sometimes there's processes where you can't really engage with things at all. So everything that I'm talking about is It was organically shown up as an active engagement process that it wasn't like we were going in. There have been some where you can guide a little bit, but you never push. It might be something like, go to your house, and it being completely unattached. And if they can't go there, then obviously the psyche doesn't want to go there, but it's really an exercise to help them to connect to their soul. And then in contrast, IFS is like, let's work on these different parts and identify these different parts of ourselves. But then let's give them fixed titles, and let's continually in a non-altered state of consciousness, not when we're meditating, not when we're actively in a state where we have the plasticity to change the pathway in the unconscious mind, but we're working in the egoic mind, and we're talking to these parts of ourselves. That could be helpful in the day-to-day struggles. Let's say you have someone who has a lot of rumination or a very active mind to have something to do with that. [00:46:57.01] - Tricia Eastman But that's not going to be the end-all, be-all solution to their problem. It's only moving the deck chairs around on the Titanic because you're still working in the framework where, I'm sorry, the Titanic is still sinking, and it may or may not be enough. It may or may not produce a reliable outcome that could be connected with some level of true relief and true connection within oneself. And so I think that people just... I feel like they almost get a little too... And maybe it's because we're so isolated and lonely, it's like, Oh, now I've got parts. I'm not by myself. I've got my fire I've got my firefighter, and I've got my guardian, and all these things. And I definitely think that IFS is a really great initiator into the idea of engaging with parts of ourselves and how to talk to them. But I don't think it's... And I think doing a session here and there, for some people, can be incredibly helpful, but to all of a sudden incorporate it in like a dogma is toxic. It's dangerous. And that's what we have to be really careful of. [00:48:23.25] - Joe Moore So thank you for that. There's a complicated discussion happening at the Aspen meeting. I think I was only sitting maybe 30 feet away from you. Sorry, I didn't say hi. But the folks from Blessings of the Forest were there, and I got a chance to chat with a number of them and learn more about nuclear protocols, biopiracy, literal piracy, and smuggling, and the works. I'm curious. This is a really complicated question, and I'm sorry for a complicated question this far in. But it's like, as we talk about this stuff publicly and give it increased profile, we are de facto giving more juice and energy to black markets to pirate. We're adding fuel to this engine that we don't necessarily want to see. Cameroon has nothing left, pretty much. From what I'm told, people from Cameroon are coming in, stealing it from Cabona, bringing it back, and then shipping it out. And there's It's like a whole worldwide market for this stuff. I witnessed it. This stuff. Yeah, right? This is real. So the people, the Buiti, and certain Gabanese farmers, are now being pirated. And international demand does not care necessarily about Nagoya compliance. United States didn't sign Nagoya protocol for this biopiracy protection, but we're not the only violator of these ethics, right? [00:50:00.22] - Joe Moore It's everywhere. So how do we balance thinking about talking about IBOCA publicly, given that there's no clean way to get this stuff in the United States that is probably not pirated materials? And as far as I know, there's only one, quote unquote, Nagoya compliant place. I've heard stories that I haven't shared publicly yet, that there's other groups that are compliant, too. But it's a really interesting conversation, and I'm curious of your perspectives there. [00:50:34.04] - Tricia Eastman I mean, this is a very long, drawn-out question, so forgive me if I give you a long, drawn-out answer. [00:50:41.01] - Joe Moore Go for it. [00:50:41.26] - Tricia Eastman It's all good. So in reality, I do believe... You know the first Ebo, Abogaine, that was done in the country was experiments on eight Black prisoners at a hospital under the MK program. [00:51:01.16] - Joe Moore Pre-lutz off, we were doing Abogaine tests on people. [00:51:06.00] - Tricia Eastman Yeah, so pre-Lutz off. I have a hypothesis, although a lot of people would already know me. [00:51:12.07] - Joe Moore No, I didn't know that. Thank you for sharing that with me. [00:51:14.13] - Tricia Eastman That's great. I'll send you some stuff on that. But the Aboga wanted to be here. The Abogaine wanted to be here. I think it's a complex question because on one side of the coin, you have the spirit of plants, which are wild and crazy sometimes. And then you have the initiatory traditions, which create a scaffolding to essentially put the lightning in a bottle, so to say, so that it's less damaging. [00:51:51.13] - Joe Moore It's almost like a temple structure around it. [00:51:53.16] - Tricia Eastman I like that. Yeah. Put a temple structure around it because it's like, yeah, you can work with new nuclear energy, but you have to wear gloves, you have to do all these different safety precautions. I would say that that's why these traditions go hand in hand with the medicine. So some people might say that the agenda of Iboga and even Abogaine might be a different agenda than the Buiti. And ultimately, whether we are Indigenous or not, the Earth belongs to everyone. It's capitalism and the patriarchy that created all these borders and all these separations between people. And in reality, we still have to acknowledge what the essence of Buiti is, which is really the cause and effect relationship that we have with everything that we do. And so some people might use the term karma. And that is if you're in Abogaine clinic and you're putting a bunch of videos out online, and that's spurring a trend on TikTok, which we already know is a big thing where people are selling illegal market, iBoga, is Is any of that your responsibility? Yes. And if I was to sit down with a kogi kagaba, which are the mamus from Colombia, or if I were to sit down with a who said, Hey, let's do a divination, and let's ask some deep questions about this. [00:53:54.01] - Tricia Eastman It would look at things on a bigger perspective than just like, Oh, this person is completely responsible for this. But when we're talking about a medicine that is so intense, and when I was younger, when I first met the medicine, I first was introduced in 2013 was when I first found out about Abigain and Iboga. And in 2014, I lived with someone who lived with a 14th generation Misoko, maybe it was 10th generation Misoco in Costa Rica. And then he decided to just start serving people medicine. And he left this person paralyzed, one person that he treated for the rest of his life. And Aubrey Marcus, it was his business partner for On It, and he's publicly talked about this, about the story behind this. If you go into his older podcasts and blog posts and stuff, he talks about the situation. And the reality is that this medicine requires a massive amount of responsibility. It has crazy interactions, such as grapefruit juice, for example, and all kinds of other things. And so it's not just the responsibility towards the buiti, it's also the responsibility of, does me talking about this without really talking about the safety and the risks, encourage other people. [00:55:49.10] - Tricia Eastman One of the big problems, back in the day, I went to my first guita conference, Global Abogaine Therapy Alliance in 2016. And And then, ISEARs was debating because there was all these people buying Abogaine online and self-detoxing and literally either dying or ending up in the hospital. And they're like, should we release protocols and just give people instructions on how to do this themselves? And I was like, no, absolutely not. We need to really look at the fact that this is an initiatory tradition, that it's been practiced for thousands of that the minimum level at which a person is administering in Gabon is 10 years of training. The way that we've made up for those mistakes, or sorry, not mistakes, lack of training is that we've used medical oversight. Most of the medical oversight that we've received has been a result of mistakes that were made in the space. The first patient that MAPS treated, they killed them because they gave them way over the amount of what milligrams per kilogram of Abigain that you should give somebody. Every single mistake that was made, which a lot of them related to loss of life, became the global Abogane Therapy Safety Guidelines. [00:57:28.19] - Tricia Eastman And so we've already learned from our mistakes here. And so I think it's really important that we understand that there's that aspect, which is really the blood on our hands of if we're not responsible, if we're encouraging people to do this, and we're talking about it in a casual way on Instagram. Like, yeah, microdosing. Well, did you know there was a guy prosecuted this last year, personal trainer, who killed someone And from microdosing in Colorado, the event happened in 2020, but he just got sentenced early 2025. These are examples that we need to look at as a collective that we need. So that's one side of it. And then the other side of it is the reciprocity piece. And the reciprocity piece related to that is, again, the cause and effect. Is A Abogaine clinic talking about doing Abogaine and doing video testimonials, spurring the efforts that are actively being made in Gabon to protect the cultural lineage and to protect the medicine. The reality is every Abogaine clinic is booked out for... I heard the next year, I don't know if that's fact or fiction, but someone told me for a year, because because of all the stuff with all the celebrities that are now talking about it. [00:59:05.20] - Tricia Eastman And then on top of that, you have all these policy, all these different advocacy groups that are talking about it. Essentially, it's not going to be seven... It's going to be, I would say, seven to 10 years before something gets through the FDA. We haven't even done a phase one safety trial for any of the Abigain that's being commercialized. And even if there's some magic that happens within the Trump administration in the next two years that changes the rules to fast track it, it's not going to cut it down probably more than a year. So then you're looking at maybe six years minimum. That whole time, all that strain is being put on Gabon. And so if you're not supporting Gabon, what's happening is it's losing a battle because the movement is gaining momentum, and Gabon cannot keep up with that momentum. It's a tiny country the size of Colorado. So my belief is that anyone who's benefiting from all the hype around Iboga and Abogayne or personally benefited with healing within themselves should be giving back, either to Ancestral Heart, to Blessings of the Forest, to any group that is doing authentic Indigenous-led biocultural stewardship work. [01:00:45.21] - Joe Moore Thanks for that. It's important that we get into some detail here. I wish we had more time to go further on it. [01:00:54.17] - Tricia Eastman I'll do a quick joke. I know. I have a lot. [01:00:57.17] - Joe Moore Yes. Now do Mike Tyson. Kidding. Yeah. So what did we maybe miss that you want to make sure people hear about your book, any biocultural stuff that you want to get out there? You can go for a few more minutes, too, if you have a few things you want to say. [01:01:20.03] - Tricia Eastman I mean, really, thank you so much for this opportunity. Thank you for caring and being so passionate about the context related to Buiti, which I think is so important. I would just say that I've been working with this medicine for... I've known about it for 13 years, and I've been working with it for 11 years, and this is my life. I've devoted my life to this work, me and my husband, both. And there isn't anything greater of a blessing that it has brought in our life, but it also is it's a very saturnian energy, so it brings chaos. It brings the deepest challenges and forces you to face things that you need to face. But also on the other side of the coin, everything that I've devoted and given back in service to this work has exponentially brought blessing in my life. So again, I see the issue with people doing these shortened processes, whether it's in an Abigain clinic where you just don't have the ritualistic sacred aspects of an initiatic context and really the rituals that really help integrate and ground the medicine. But you still have this opportunity to continue to receive the blessings. [01:03:09.23] - Tricia Eastman And I really feel in our current psychedelic movement, we essentially have a Bugatti. These medicines are the most finely-tuned sports car that can do every... Even more than that, more like a spaceship. We have this incredible tool, but we're driving it in first gear. We don't even really know how to operate it. It's like, well, I guess you could say flight of the Navigator, but that was a self-driving thing, and I guess, psychedelics are self-driving. But I feel that we are discounting ourselves so greatly by not looking into our past of how these medicines were used. I really think the biggest piece around that is consulting the genuine lineage carriers like Buiti elders, like Mubu Bwal, who's the head of Maganga Manan Zembe, And giving them a seat at the head of the table, really, because there's so much I know in my tradition, about what we do to bring cardiac safety. And why is it that people aren't dying as much in Gabon as they're dying in Abigan clinics. [01:04:37.28] - Joe Moore Shots fired. All right. I like it. Thank you. Thank you for everything you've done here today, I think harm reduction is incredibly important. Let's stop people dying out there. Let's do some harm reduction language. I actually was able to sweet talk my way into getting a really cool EKG recently, which I thought really great about. If you can speak clinician, you can go a long way sometimes. [01:05:11.20] - Tricia Eastman Yeah. Oh, no, go ahead. Sorry. [01:05:15.17] - Joe Moore No, that's all. That's all. So harm reduction is important. How do we keep people safe? How do we keep healing people? And thank you for all your hard work. [01:05:27.22] - Tricia Eastman Thank you. I really appreciate it. We're all figuring it out. No one's perfect. So I'm not trying to fire any shots at anybody. I'm just like, Guys, please listen. We need to get in right relationship with the medicine. And we need to include these stakeholders. And on the other side of the coin, I just want to add that there's a lot of irresponsible, claimed traditional practitioners that are running retreat centers in Mexico and Costa Rica and other places that are also causing a lot of harm, too. So the medical monitoring is definitely, if you're going to do anything, Because these people don't have the training, the worst thing you could do is not have someone going in blind that doesn't have training and not have had an EKG and all that stuff. But we've got a long way to go, and I'm excited to help support in a productive way, all coming together. And that's what me and Joseph have been devoted to. [01:06:45.02] - Joe Moore Brilliant. Tricia Eastman, thank you so much. Everybody should go check out your book Seeding Consciousness out now. The audiobook's lovely, too. Thank you so much for being here. And until next time. [01:07:00.14] - Tricia Eastman Thank you.