Podcasts about Vestas

Today, wind power accounts for just under 10% of all electricity globally, around the same as solar, recently overtaking nuclear power. 20 years ago, the figure was under 1%. In that time, the sector's leadership has moved around from Europe to the US to Asia, but one specialist European manufacturer has stayed in the leading group throughout: Vestas — a member of the global wind energy aristocracy. This week on Cleaning Up, Michael Liebreich is joined by Henrik Andersen, CEO of Vestas, to discuss the extraordinary growth in the wind energy industry, the challenges it faces with rising interest rates and political hostility, and where the best place to build turbines is in 2026.  Together they do some myth-busting and answer: If wind is so great, why does it need subsidies?  Is wind pointless because it's intermittent? Are turbines killing all the birds? What happens to the turbines at the end of their lives? Leadership Circle: Cleaning Up is proud to be supported by its Leadership Circle. The members are Actis, Alcazar Energy, Arup, Copenhagen Infrastructure Partners, Cygnum Capital, Davidson Kempner, Ecopragma Capital, EDP, Eurelectric, the Gilardini Foundation, KKR, Mitsubishi Heavy Industries, National Grid, Octopus Energy, Quadrature Climate Foundation, Schneider Electric, SDCL and Wärtsilä. For more information about the Leadership Circle, visit cleaningup.live Links: Vestas' website: https://www.vestas.com/en/pages/campaigns/sustainability/200-gw Henrik Andersen's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/henrik-andersen-/ WindEurope 2026: From crisis to confidence — https://windeurope.org/news/windeurope-2026-from-crisis-to-confidence/

Alejandro Cabrera Muñoz, co-founder and CEO of Green Eagle Solutions, returns to discuss automating 70 GW of renewable assets and why operators are self-operating their fleets. Reach out to sales@greeneaglesolutions.com to learn more! Sign up now for Uptime Tech News, our weekly newsletter on all things wind technology. This episode is sponsored by Weather Guard Lightning Tech. Learn more about Weather Guard’s StrikeTape Wind Turbine LPS retrofit. Follow the show on YouTube, Linkedin and visit Weather Guard on the web. And subscribe to Rosemary’s “Engineering with Rosie” YouTube channel here. Have a question we can answer on the show? Email us! Welcome to Uptime Spotlight, shining light on wind energy’s brightest innovators. This is the progress powering tomorrow Allen Hall: Alejandro, welcome back to the program.  Alejandro Cabrera Muños: Thank you so much, Allen. It’s a pleasure to be here.  Allen Hall: Well, so last time we talked, you had so much happening at Green Eagle, and it is, uh, amazing to watch the progress there. You’ve been around for quite a while now. You started, what, in 2011 working on SCADA systems. Uh, uh, there’s been a lot of evolution since then. Walk me through, like, the process where you thought, “Hey, there’s a business here.”  Alejandro Cabrera Muños: Of course. Uh, we actually started officially back in 2012. It’s been a, quite a, of a long journey to, to get here. Uh, yeah, we started, uh, back, back then. We say it’s a whole new world, right? If we look backwards, like, almost 15 years. Makes me, makes me feel, like, extremely [00:01:00] old. Uh, but ne- nevertheless, um, yeah, back then we were trying to, to cover, like, a lot of issues that were based on OEM SCADAs, which by the way, we still are dealing with. But, but that, that was starting point. It was, um- It was, uh, based on understanding that the, the renewable energy industry is so complex. Every wind farm, every solar plant has different issues, different systems. Even, even the same models from the same manufacturer sometimes have complete different systems, which complicates everything. So it was very exciting to, to start our careers in a, in an industry where nothing is standard and where everyone is looking for something that is standard. So that’s, that’s where we fit in. Um, yeah, and in these years, we, we started basically creating the f- the foundations, uh, uh, on top of, uh, SCADA systems. [00:02:00] But as soon as we had that, those foundations, we realized that this sector is not gonna evolve, uh, it’s gonna cope up with the complexity, uh, of the technical complexity, market volatility, regulatory compliance. That’s not gonna be solved by just having more SCADAs. So we created a layer of automation in place, which is basically what we’ve been, um, evolving in the last 10 years now, um, with the, with the mindset and with the goal that every wind turbine should be running autonomously without having to have people behind it, uh, supervising and taking control of it. Allen Hall: Yeah, and that’s a great founding idea, but that has grown from an idea to you’re automating, what, 40 gigawatts of renewable assets right now?  Alejandro Cabrera Muños: Oh, we’re actually now connected to over 70 gigawatts.  Allen Hall: That’s amazing. Alejandro, that’s incredible.  Alejandro Cabrera Muños: And all of them are different.  Allen Hall: Sure. So that, that’s a combination– 70 gigawatts is a combination of wind and solar and anything else? Alejandro Cabrera Muños: Yes. [00:03:00] Well, actually, one of the, one of the main, um, needs that we try to cover from day one is to be able to connect to all, um, asset classes. So we understand that, um, the challenge of operating a large portfolio for our customers, um, can only be solved if we have the ability to connect to all type of asset classes. So we can have to connect to wind turbines, inverters, trackers, substations, um, energy meters, you name it. You– we have to connect to every single asset class, um, because what’s important is how you manage that data on top of that and how you react on the anomalies.  Allen Hall: Right. Because I think a lot of operators are now considering taking your model, the Green Eagle model of s-self-operating, but they need that help, they need that insight into the operation of a solar farm or a wind farm or, or any of those assets, renewable assets, ensure those inverter-driven assets. You’re, you’re seeing– I, I think we’re seeing the same thing, which is a lot of operators decide to [00:04:00] leave full service agreements globally, and what do you think is driving that now? Uh, is it a financial decision? Is it a performance decision, or is it both?  Alejandro Cabrera Muños: I think there are many factors, but I think the main driver is the financial aspects of it. I think when you, when you delegate the operations to a third-party, uh, entity They are gonna optimize their services to whatever service level agreement or availability they are committed to. And for that reason, you’re never gonna get– effectively, you’re never gonna get the extra mile. You’re never gonna get any extra from there. Um, and that’s okay when the market is– has great conditions and everything w- is going well. But we are seeing how in the last years we have, uh, a lot of market volatility, negative pricing. Everything is becoming more and more complex, so many projects are actually under stake financially. And I think that’s, um, that’s pressuring everyone to look for opportunities to squeeze their assets a little bit more or a little bit better, I would say.[00:05:00] Um, and part of that is to take operations in-house so you at least you have the opportunity to, to do, um, a better job, uh, let’s say.  Allen Hall: Yeah, and part of what we’re seeing is, at least in the United States and, and globally now, I think it’s, there’s more action globally than there has been on mergers and acquisitions. So an operator that has historically had a particular OEM in wind, you know, say it’s Vestas or Siemens or GE, whoever, Nordex, it could be any of them. Uh, when they acquire another competitor or another farm, they’re bringing in a f- a wind turbine they probably don’t know much about. And, and that’s a huge problem. And, and there’s not a lot of resources for them to grab hold of. Uh, that’s one of the marketplaces you’re trying to fill right now, right?  Alejandro Cabrera Muños: Of course. Uh, as I mentioned before, if something describes our sector is that nothing is standard, despite everyone is seeking standardization of everything, right? Uh, but nothing is standard for, [00:06:00] for– and that, that’s the reality. So the first thing when, when you have a portfolio and you are incorporating new assets into it, you need, um, a solution that is able to connect to all type of assets, right? Um, w-we call our solution a three-in-one solution because first of all, it acts as a second level SCADA, so you can connect everything there, uh, everything there, and you have access to all the data across all your assets. Then we have the SCADA automation layer, and then we have the data analysis layer on top of that. Okay. But let’s focus on the operations, which was, uh, your question, right? So you have a new bunch of assets. Sometimes you don’t have any documentation whatsoever, but these are Gamesas, Nordex, a bunch of them from different years. Um, the first thing that we provide is a second level SCADA, so you can connect to all of those. But We have, uh, something that we believe is very unique. So what we provide to our [00:07:00] customers is ability to automate all these assets autonomously. And what that gives you, it’s, um, set of data that can be analyzed, and we can learn from what’s working, what’s not working, beyond what the manufacturer’s gonna tell you to do, right? So we have thousands of General Electric turbines connected to our software, for instance. Um, we know what works, what doesn’t works, uh, what are the faults that can be resetted remotely, what are the ones that are not, what is the success ratio of those resets, ’cause that’s a metric that nobody else has unless you have automation in place. Uh, but we can actually understand, is it working? Is it not working? Is it creating fatigue for no reason to these turbines? So what– we have all this, this, uh, un- this knowledge and this, um, knowhow, uh, for all these models. Um- I believe one of the main, um, value that we provide to our customers is, is not only the, the solution itself, but it’s also the [00:08:00] ability to be somehow prescriptive. It’s, it’s not that we’re gonna know more about how to operate the assets than our customers, but, uh, we have a sense of what’s the benchmark, right? So I, I– And that benchmark is very, very useful for them as well.  Allen Hall: So th- that’s part of getting to scale, and 70 gigawatts is a, a lot of scale, where you have seen a number of turbines in different places operating in different environments and performing at different levels. That’s unique, right? That gives you insight into really what’s happening to a turbine or a solar asset globally and also locally. For a lot of operators that just happen to acquire or, or, or take on a- an older wind farm, uh, they tend to get stuck, right? They, they, they, they don’t tend to be able to, to find their way through those little nuances. That’s a huge financial impact to them eventually, right?  Alejandro Cabrera Muños: It is. And I, and I believe that for many years this was something that in a way got, um– [00:09:00] didn’t get a lot of visibility. I think people were not fully aware of how much revenue, how much production they were losing just because they were not operating their assets at the best capacity. Um, now we have the data to prove what, what better can look like. W- uh, we have data to prove that if you follow the OEM’s, uh, protocols, you may be creating fatigue for no reason. Um, and there are improv- there are ways to improve that thing. So I think it’s, um– We are, we are opening the door for a new, complete new way to operate your, your portfolio and get more benefit from it. Allen Hall: I think that’s a very interesting aspect of the sort of the structural aspects of how a, a wind turbine performs, and a lot of that is driven by software. And you, you realize if you’re paying close attention to the OEMs that some of the software updates are not necessarily performance enhancements. They’re more of protecting the turbine because they realize they may have a problem. So it may be a slight derate, it may be a, a different sort of power curve that happens. [00:10:00] But a lot of operators don’t really sense that that is happening up close because they’re not into the details of that. That’s where Green Eagle separates itself. You are into all those details. And do you have a lot of operators just reach out for help immediately saying, “Hey, I have this Siemens Gamesa or Gamesa wind farm,” think about an older wind farm, a Gamesa wind farm Help. Just please help. Uh, whatever you can do, just show us you can do it. Do you, do you start to run a little test campaign on that site, or do you, or do you go pull back from the 70 gigawatts and 15 years of history to, to show this is what you can do with that particular asset to, to get them involved in a thinking about the problem a little bit differently? Alejandro Cabrera Muños: Well, I wish, I wish it was that way. Um, but what, what– It, it was that transparent, but what happens is that we’re working with the largest, uh, some of the largest utilities and IPPs in the world. So what happens is that they, they will never come to us saying, [00:11:00] “We don’t know how to operate this turbine,” or, “We don’t have enough information.” Um, the way they ask for it is like, “Are you compatible with this?” And, “Do you know… Do you have some protocols? Do you know the standard protocols to run these turbines?” Um, and that’s the way we, we start the conversation, and then they, uh, they, they get confident that we can actually help them with that. We only know about how, how much or how little they know about a specific model once we start working with them. And it’s not all or nothing. I- Ev-Even the largest manufacturer, e-even the largest utilities, their portfolio is constantly evolving. They’re incorporating new sites almost every month. So there’s always one site that they don’t, they don’t have expertise in the, in the house, so it’s, it’s normal. Like, basically not many people have expertise in some of the models from old Nordex or Gamesas or you name it. It, it’s impossible basically to have to understand all models in the world. So I think we [00:12:00] have the, the data, the benchmarks, and experience, and on top of that, the of course, the, the tools, so you can actually operate better those, those assets.  Allen Hall: So the name of your system is called ARSOS, A-R-S-O-S, and for anybody listening to this podcast, you can just Google it, and it’s gonna take you to Green Eagle. What is that product? How would, how would you define or describe that product?  Alejandro Cabrera Muños: Well, ARSOS is a suite. Um, what– The way I like to think about it is a, is a three-in-one solution, right? So it’s first of all, it acts, it, it, it fits in between the SCADA world and the REMs, uh, the REMs, uh, solutions. Okay? And they’re complete different worlds even though you see dashboards and they look the same thing. But SCADAs must be, um, must be able to be installed on premises. They require OT enterprise cybersecurity level. They can be, they should be installed on air-gapped infrastructure, so no access to internet whatsoever. [00:13:00]Um, and that they tend to be extremely complex to configure and, and, uh, adapt to every, uh, every different site. So that’s one world. Um, on the other hand, we have the, the REM solutions that are like more like a SaaS platform, like a Power- it could be Power BI, it could be like the, the normal use cases that you need it. You need something, some tools to create the reports at the end of the month to understand the performance of your assets, right? So you have these two, two worlds. So what we are proposing here is a solution that has been built for the past 15 years, but it fits right in the middle. So it covers Almost everything that you need from a SCADA and second level SCADA solution. It puts automation in place, and then it also gives you all the data so you can consume it in the best way, uh, possible, which by the way, now with, uh, artificial intelligence, it’s incredible what you can do with it. So this is basically what we have built, um, right [00:14:00] now. And the main differentiation here is that since we are in the middle, we are trying to solve all this complexity from a SCADA world with a product that is already pre-configured. So you can basically connect to your sites in a completely easy way, um, doing clicks and not a lot of complexity because it’s already pre-made for your needs. Um, because of that, the time to market is extremely much, uh, faster compared to a SCADA solution, so you can have a solution in thing, in hours and not in months. It’s, it’s not a project anymore, right? Which is, which it sounds like normal when you, when you talk about applications, it sounds like a normal thing to do, that you have a, a system running in hours or minutes. But when you’re talking about SCADAs, that’s like sci- uh, sci-fiction, right? Um, that’s what we’re bringing to, into, onto the table. It’s, it’s, uh, something that you can connect to all your assets in a seamless way, painless, and, uh, and, uh, off the [00:15:00] shelf.  Allen Hall: Well, that’s a very interesting way of framing, uh, the product because, uh, you do see both ends of the spectrum here, where y- there’s a number of companies that are offering a c- completely SaaS product, which is a very pretty dashboard, and it still relies on a human to watch this dashboard and, and to make sense of it, and it provides some insight. And then you get to the other side, which is almost a completely mechanical system, where it’s just SCADA data and, and you’re just picking up data for datas, uh, to have, basically. So you, you f- you sort of find that middle ground. The, the, the amount of software and technology that it’s in that space, though, must be huge, and what is the effect of AI bring to you? Does that help you more with just on the, on the, on the model side or just the, the statistical analysis of all the data that you have access to now?  Alejandro Cabrera Muños: Let me make a, um, clarification. Because since, uh, we are, we are providing automation [00:16:00] in a world that is mission critical, right? So there’s no, a lot of, there’s no room for creativity or probabilistic approach. It all has to be the deterministic, right? Uh, so when we talk about automation, we’ve always been focused on deterministic automation, so rule-based, uh, automation, and that’s what we have implemented on top of the level of the SCADAs, right? So that’s, that’s the part where you know how to deal with an asset. You have the protocols. You want to understand how they work, but you want to have certainty of what happens if the turbine is on fault and the fault is related to the gearbox temperature and so on. So you wanna make sure that there’s a reset automatically executed only if the temperature of the gearbox is under X threshold. So this very deterministic approach. Uh, but we have, uh, something, um, very unique when we go on the, on the other side, when we go on the side of the REMs. Because we not only have the data of, of the assets, we [00:17:00] not only have statuses, performance, availability, uh, production. We also have the data of how these assets, assets have been operated, right? So we know how much fatigue they have received, how they’ve been operated, um, have they received curtailments or not? How many curtailments? What were the reasons? So we can actually have a 360, uh, degree of all the data, including all the control, not only how they’re performing, but also how we are operating those assets. And we believe that this is very unique because only if you have all these 360 data, then you can actually enhance what you have on top of that. And that is where AI come, comes in, right? So AI, AI is great in, um, helping our customers in doing root cause analysis, um, dealing with anomalies are not well, um, uh, procedure. Uh, there’s no course of action that is clear, that you don’t know. It’s, they’re not like too [00:18:00] frequent to, to have one. Uh, mixing different type of data. Like I mentioned before, you have, uh, market data, you have curtailments, you have, uh, commands to stop or start a turbine. You have a lot of information there, and you can put all together. Uh, also along with the CMMS information. Um- Lastly, they get– they can pull that together to do whatever they need, right? Uh, they can build with AI. You, you can now do your own dashboards. You can create your own APMs if you wanted to. Um, and I like to think about it, like, with these new tools that you can create disposable dashboards. And, uh, the concept is that it doesn’t matter how many different dashboards you have in an APM, but tomorrow you have a, a specific case. And I think it’s amazing that now with AI and the right, uh, data structure, you can now create a dashboard, and maybe it’s just for one use case, you know? And you just build it today, look at the data. You have [00:19:00] a, um, a case study, and that’s it. May– you never use it that again. The trick for being able to, to, to create this ecosystem where you analyze the data in a completely different way is that we have been working on how to structure the data so the AI is gonna be able to understand the data itself. So once that, that layer is structured in the right way, then you can actually create your own APMs or your own dashboards as you need to.  Allen Hall: That’s fascinating. So instead of just thinking of a turbine or a, a solar field as a asset where you’re trying to maximize performance necessarily, you’re looking at it from the marketplace, the, the, uh, the shutdowns, all the, the things that are contr- overriding the performance and trying to optimize performance in this market environment, which may be very turbulent, and I think for a lot of wind operators is very turbulent, uh, at, at the minute just [00:20:00] because of the nature of the electricity grid. So you’re, you’re then thinking about Having an AI tool to help you do investigative work on the particulars, not just the global data set of how this turbine globally operates, but the specifics, that’s fascinating because that allows you then to treat each turbine as its own separate power plant, in a sense, but also to, to think about lifetime issues and how to maintain that piece of equipment in a much more efficient way. That’s remarkable.  Alejandro Cabrera Muños: And you have the– With AI, you also have the capabilities to automate all these type of analysis. So once you have a specific, uh, case to be analyzed, then you can automate that case to be analyzed in a daily basis, in a weekly basis. But that’s, uh, that, that’s, uh, that’s, uh, the world that we are moving to. Allen Hall: So a lot of what’s happening at Green Eagle at the moment is being automated and, and making it easy for, for customers to get [00:21:00]onboarded to the RSO system. What does that look like today? Uh, how do, how do I get onboarded? I have an asset of I got 1,000 turbines and a couple of solar fields. What does it look like to get me started in the RSO system with Green Eagle? Alejandro Cabrera Muños: Well, if you’re using our cloud, it’s, it’s gonna be a process of If you have a, a portfolio of 500 gigawatts, you can connect to our, to our cloud in a matter of like one month to two months So that’s something that you can do by yourself. So, um, you can create the assets, you can create the connectivity. The connectivity is done through IP filtering or VPN tunnels. All that is from the, from the dashboards, from, from the cloud. Um, then you can, based on the model directory, you can choose which is the, the assets that you want to connect to and through what channels, whether you have Modbus, OPC, and so on. Um, but that’s a- as complex as, as it gets. Really? It’s n- it’s not easy either, because [00:22:00] you need to understand what is a Modbus, what is a OPC, but that’s what it is. It, it’s not a matter of, like, installing something on site and doing tons of, uh, complex, uh, um, configurations. You don’t need, uh, SCADA engineers to be, like, building these dashboards tailor-made for your sites and, and all that is, is something from the past in o- in our opinion. Allen Hall: So you’re not on the telephone, or you’re not on a, a online chat with the Green Eagle team, because it’s, it’s, it’s– you’ve, you’ve done enough capacity now that you’ve automated this.  Alejandro Cabrera Muños: You don’t have to.  Allen Hall: That’s amazing, because I think that’s the first worry for any operator that is gonna make that leap saying, “Hey, I need a little bit of help with this wind farm or this solar site,” is that, “Oh, I gotta be on the phone. I gotta– There’s a lot of im- of onboarding that has to happen,” and you’ve eliminated that.  Alejandro Cabrera Muños: Well, first, w- I, I totally understand this hesitation. Um, many of our customers are living in, in the, in the SCADA world, right? Uh, and which w- it was probably once a pain [00:23:00] to be configured to begin with, and I think half the sector is traumatized by these processes. So I, I tot- I totally understand that that pain is, is still there, right? I understand that. But what we’re trying to do is to, to move forward and say like, “Yeah, that, that’s gone. That was the past. Now we have a different way to do it.” And if you have, uh, either new assets that you need to connect or you even consider, like, moving to something more modern, something with more capabilities, something that comes with automation in place, uh, well, we have a solution that is painless. Allen Hall: Can I discuss, or can we go back and forth about the, the use of inverter-based resources, the solar and the wind sites, in terms of the, the move from grid following to grid forming and stabilizing the grid? I think there’s gonna be a lot of changes in the way that we operate these assets over the next year. Mostly, uh, I see action in the United States from the Iberian blackout about a year ago. They’re changing the thought process of how they want to run the grid so that the wind [00:24:00] and solar can keep the grid operating. Is– Are you involved in, are you involved in that aspect of how you operate those assets and how those inverters perform and, and configuring them to, to do more of the, of the grid forming and keeping the grid stable? Alejandro Cabrera Muños: I believe, to be honest, this is more related to power plant controllers and hybrid plants. So we have, we have made several projects with, um- With a mix, uh, of, uh, wind, solar, um, and storage. And wh- but what we’re doing here, uh, to be completely honest, we are not involved in the power plant controllers. Uh, we believe that that’s an electrical device and has, uh, uh, particularities that are out of us- our scope. But what we do is to, again, we connect to all asset classes, right? So we also w- connect to the PPCs, and we can monitor the PPC, the performance of the PPC, and we integrate that into everything else, right? So [00:25:00] that’s, for us, that’s another asset that we are connecting to, and that it make– it completes the view of, um, of sites that are now, like, almost like mini portfolios at, at the same place, right? ‘Cause you have, uh, different technologies, service stations. You have so many things that you need to orchestrate as well. So we’re, we’re w- moving into, into that area as well, uh, f- with the same concepts.  Allen Hall: B- so in a, in a sense, you’re able to monitor the health or status of the grid. Because you’re connected to so many of these assets, you have a pretty good understanding of how the grid is doing at any particular moment then. Alejandro Cabrera Muños: That’s right, yeah, especially in, in Spain, of course, ’cause we’re connected to, um, over 25 gigawatts at the, uh, at, in Spain, so.  Allen Hall: Alejandro, that’s amazing.  Alejandro Cabrera Muños: Over 25 gigawatts at the, uh, at, in Spain. So, so that’s s- it’s almost a third of the, of the installed capacity in Spain.  Allen Hall: Is there a movement in Spain to, to use technology like yours [00:26:00] to better monitor, regulate, control the, uh, wind and solar assets so- such that they stay engaged when, when the, the grid starts to, to vary a little bit? Has anybody asked you to, to be involved with that? Because it seems like you’re the right– you’re in the right place at the right time.  Alejandro Cabrera Muños: The challenge of all these grid codes, uh, in, in most of cases is just that There are tons of curtailments that are coming from many different reasons, technical restrictions, market, uh, dispatch, um, other type of compliance. Um, the, the first challenge is to just execute on them, right? So they’re coming, you need to apply on the, on the sites. Um, that was the first, the first phase. But now that we have so many gigawatts connected, and that we’re also participating in balance mechanis- balance mechanisms and ancillary services, what we are seeing is that depending on how your assets perform and how quickly they are in regulating, um, you are gonna [00:27:00] have penalties or more, uh, profitability in the participation of the markets. So that’s, that’s extremely important as well ’cause it’s, it’s quite difficult to, to measure. But we have all the– Since everything is automated, you can always track, and you can statistically understand which of the sites are performing better or worse, in what cases, and therefore you have opportunities to improve the regulation and get more revenue from it. Allen Hall: Okay. So Green Eagle then is, because of the scale that it has at the minute, can look at the grid and is involved in, in the, the grid requirements, so to speak, of, of, uh, curtailments and what assets are operating when, and also the voltage control aspects and frequency control, which is the other part of it. You, because you’re, because you have so many assets in Spain and globally, you, it’s amazing the number of assets you have. You, you then can actually, one, see health of the grid, two, [00:28:00] provide insights to operators on what that looks like. I mean, real time you could, you can do that. And then are, are, are the regulators then coming to, to you asking advice on how these assets should perform? Because it does seem like you would be a tremendous resource on how the grid is actually doing on a larger scale from a renewables standpoint.  Alejandro Cabrera Muños: Yeah. Well, fortunately, the, the regulator has its own also, uh, system, so it’s, uh, redundant, right? So as far as we, we are working to, to have, uh, the best system in the world, but, but it will be a lot of, uh, responsibility for us to just have the whole grid depending on us. That would be a lot of weight. Uh, but in a, in a way, in, in a, in a way, it already depends on us, uh, effectively. So, so the pressure is, is there. We have, we have talked to them, um, since we have so many customers, um, in the, in the– at this level, uh, we have to be very quick in implementing new grid codes and new [00:29:00] regulatory, uh, compliance issues and, and so on. So that’s, that’s, um… It’s a challenge, but at the same time, it’s, it’s very exciting that we are always ahead in, in this regard.  Allen Hall: Right. If, if I was an operator and I had Green Eagle as one of my, uh, helpers in a sense, uh, assistants in a sense, that helps with the, the grid code i-in terms of, one, understanding it, and two, being able to implement the changes that are coming down all the time. You have a resource there that understands it from a larger perspective because you see it from multiple operators in multiple places trying to do the same thing. That’s a huge advantage instead of you trying to na-navigate or try to understand all those grid code changes and why they’re happening and what it means to you and how do you operate your assets. So you can provide a little bit of guidance there for the operators.  Alejandro Cabrera Muños: Of, of course. Um, uh, the main, the main value proposition that we can have here for anyone that wants to participate or be part of the Spanish market is that we already have all this figured out. So if you wanna start from the scratch [00:30:00] with, uh, with a SCADA, industrial SCADA, well, let’s, let’s go with, let’s go with that. You’re gonna be probably traumatized in the future, right? Uh, but with us you have an off-the-shelf product that is already compliance. It, uh, h- we have already set, uh, the system certified by the TSO in Spain. So we have already gone through this process so many times, and it’s off the shelf, so you don’t have to worry about any of this. And on top of that, you have the Peace of mind that if tomorrow there’s gonna be a, a, a new change in the, in the, in a new grid code, well, which most likely is gonna happen, um, soon, uh, we have to, we have to do it. Because we have already, uh, a lot of customers that, that, that need it. So for us, it’s actually also, uh, strategic to, to be ahead and be fast in implementing these grid codes. Allen Hall: That’s amazing. That’s such a huge resource for Spain and the rest of the world. Yeah, that’s amazing. Well, I, I know people who are listening to this podcast right now are thinking, “Okay, I haven’t heard of Green [00:31:00]Eagle, but now I’m interested, and I need to f- find out more.” How do they contact you? Where do they go first? What’s the best first step?  Alejandro Cabrera Muños: Well, they can connect, uh, directly to me through LinkedIn, or they can just write to sales@greeneaglesolutions.com.  Allen Hall: Great, yeah, and Alejandro’s available on LinkedIn, so you can f- find him there. And we’ll put his contact information in the show notes to, so you have quick access. Alejandro, you gotta come back more often because the, the things that you’re doing with Green Eagle are amazing, and, uh, the, the scale is incredible. Congratulations on that. Uh, and, and I, I, I need you to come back and tell us what the next generation looks like because I know when you guys get ahold of AI and start thinking through some of these real challenging problems, Green Eagle will have solutions. So you’re welcome back anytime.  Alejandro Cabrera Muños: Super exciting to come back, uh, when you invite me. Thank you so [00:32:00] much.

Ørsted closes its European offshore sale to CIP and weighs a $1 billion exit from the US market. Plus MingYang commissions a 20 MW offshore turbine, and ZF’s plain bearings log 36 GW with no measurable wear. Sign up now for Uptime Tech News, our weekly newsletter on all things wind technology. This episode is sponsored by Weather Guard Lightning Tech. Learn more about Weather Guard’s StrikeTape Wind Turbine LPS retrofit. Follow the show on YouTube, Linkedin and visit Weather Guard on the web. And subscribe to Rosemary’s “Engineering with Rosie” YouTube channel here. Have a question we can answer on the show? Email us! [00:00:00] The Uptime Wind Energy podcast, brought to you by StrikeTape, protecting thousands of wind turbines from lightning damage worldwide. Visit StrikeTape.com. And now, your hosts Allen Hall: Welcome to the Uptime Wind Energy podcast. I’m your host for today, Allen Hall, along with Matthew Stead, Rosemary Barnes, and Yolanda Padron. If you’re going to be in Houston for Clean Power 2026, mark Wednesday, June 3rd on your calendar. The Australian American Chamber of Commerce, Texas is hosting an invitation-only panel and networking reception with cocktails from 6:00 to 8:00 PM at the Houston Club, and I’ll be moderating. We’re bringing together Australian and US wind energy experts to compare notes on how two markets handle O&M, lightning risks, blade inspections, remote monitoring, and where operational gaps [00:01:00] are. The evening also marks the North American commercial launch of EOLOGIX-PING’s satellite-based lightning monitoring system, developed with Adelaide-based satellite IoT company, Myriota. So in joining me on the panel, our own Matt Stead, co-founder of EOLOGIX-PING, and Mark Norman, VP of Edge Solutions at Myriota, and Weather Guard’s Yolanda Padron. EOLOGIX-PING and Myriota have systems already deployed in Japan and Australia, and a little bit in the US here at Weather Guard, and they’re stepping into the North American market at American Clean Power with this advanced lightning monitoring product. So you’ll want to be there and see this new product introduced. It is an invitation-only event, so if you’re at Clean Power and want to be in the room, reach out to us on LinkedIn so we can get you on the list. Orsted finished selling off its European offshore wind business to Copenhagen [00:02:00]Infrastructure Partners, better known as CIP or as it’s a-affectionately called CIP. Now, Bloomberg reports the Danish company is exploring a sale of its US portfolio also, which includes a whole bunch of wind. It’s a decent amount of solar and battery storage in a deal that could bring more than about a billion dollars. Uh, the business generated more than one-fifth of Orsted’s total operating income just last year. Uh, meanwhile, uh, more than 50 US organizers are urging RWE CEO, Markus Kroeker, not to hand back over $1 billion in US offshore wind leases as part of a reported deal with the Trump administration. Uh, so the, the pattern is clear, everybody. European developers are being pushed towards the exit in the American market. The Ørsted situation’s been going on several months now. I, I think it’s pretty much common [00:03:00] knowledge, I would assume at this point. W- we’ve known for months, and I th- think a lot of people we’ve talked to have been saying Ørsted is prepping for a sale. The question is who? And the, the RWE getting rid of their offshore leases in the United States would be a little bit of a odd move. However, a billion dollars back in your bank account is probably a smart move today. So are the, the Germans and the Danish leaving America?  Yolanda Padron: Ørsted’s still keeping their offshore in the US, right?  Allen Hall: Yeah, I don’t know if they’ll be able to sell it off. They own it 100% at this point, right? All the partners have pulled out But I wonder if that’s on the auction block also. That it could be  Matthew Stead: So why? Why are they, why are they selling? I mean, there has to be a reason. I mean, do they have better use for the money elsewhere, or do they just have lost faith in the, the USA?  Allen Hall: It could be a combination of both, right? Both can be true at the same time. I do think the cash flow is an issue [00:04:00] for renewable energy companies at the minute, so if they can get some money back into the coffers and to get ready for the next big run of development, they probably should do it now. But things, especially it does seem a little bit on the slow side on the re- renewable development, except in the UK where it’s going crazy.  Do you think then that they’re looking for American people to sell it to?  Allen Hall: Or Canadian. If Ørsted sells their onshore business, uh, to CIP, it still remains in Danish hands, so it wouldn’t necessarily be a, uh, removal of the Danes from America, not, not quite. Matthew Stead: Yeah. I’m just a bit confused why, you know, why, you know, why would it, um, attract a good price at the moment? So I would’ve thought, you know, if it was me, I would’ve take the long-term view and just hang onto it.  Allen Hall: Well, the, the tax credit’s already built into those businesses, right? I, I at least that’s what I would assume, that the, the tax credits are still [00:05:00] available on a number of the Ørsted sites. They’re not that old. A lot of the wind sites are not that old, so you could gain that tax advantage. It may make sense. It may be a, a Berkshire Hathaway or somebody like that may, may jump into the mix.  Rosemary Barnes: Yeah, and maybe because there’s not so much opportunity for new developments at the moment, that might be maybe it’s appealing for that reason, that there’s, yeah, not, not so many wind opportunities around, and companies want wind in their portfolios, so. Allen Hall: Or data centers like we just saw with NextEra and Dominion. The, the drive for, for data centers, uh, is pushing the, the power demand, and if you could buy wind, solar, and battery all together, most of it kind of co-located, you could put some data centers in Texas ’cause a vast majority of that Ørsted fleet is in a place where you could plant a data center right next to it. Maybe that’s, maybe that’s the thought. Uh, if they saw NextEra and Dominion join hands, maybe there’s another partnership in the mix. That would be really interesting. Maybe it’s Elon. Maybe [00:06:00] SpaceX or, uh, Tesla could just buy Ørsted’s onshore wind business. That would be a- amazing.  Matthew Stead: I thought they were going into space. Why would they be bothering with the Earth?  Allen Hall: You gotta power the rockets before you launch them, right? You get so-  Matthew Stead: gotta get some power from somewhere. Allen Hall: Delamination and bondline failures in blades are difficult problems to detect early. These hidden issues can cost you millions in repairs and lost energy production. CIC-NDT are specialists to detect these critical flaws before they become expensive burdens. Their nondestructive test technology penetrates deep into blade materials to find voids and cracks traditional inspections completely miss. CIC-NDT maps every critical defect, delivers actionable reports, and provides support to get your blades back in service. So visit cicndt.com because catching blade problems early will save you millions[00:07:00] China has commissioned what is being called the world’s largest offshore wind turbine. It’s a 20-megawatt machine built by MingYang Smart Energy, installed off the coast of China in the South China Sea. The structure stands about 240 meters tall with blades around 128 meters long. That’s a pretty good-sized blade. And it’s rated to survive gusts up to 80 meters per second. But the real story is what researchers are watching after the turbine starts up. Early reports say that the rotor that is massively big will create measurable changes in local air currents and temperature distribution. At this scale, offshore wind creating a physical footprint that scientists want to measure and We have seen this effect here at Weather Guard Lightning Tech, watching storms go through the big wind farms [00:08:00] in the United States. So you can actually see storm behaviors change because of the quantity of turbines, and the turbines are getting to be high enough with the hub heights approaching 100 meters. But nothing as big as a 20 megawatt machine out on the ocean. It’s mixing the t- the, the air quite a bit, changing the temperature. Uh, is this something that climatologists are looking at, Rosemary, or, or, or watching closely, particularly with the, uh, fish life and sea life around the wind turbines?  Rosemary Barnes: I don’t know. My thing with MingYang is that they’re always, like, you only ever hear about them ’cause they’re announcing the biggest something, right? Um, that’s like the extent of it. It’s not like you hear about, oh, there’s a wind farm near you and it’s gonna have MingYang turbines in it. You never hear that. You only hear about they’ve got the biggest, and now next year they’ve got the new biggest, the biggest, the biggest, the biggest. And, uh, it’s like I know that they do actually make some, like, a lot of turbines. I think they’re in the, we mentioned last week, they’re in the top five manufacturers, um, mostly or maybe [00:09:00] pretty much entirely for the Chinese market. Um, so it’s not like I think they don’t make anything. But I do think it’s quite easy to announce the biggest something. This announcement is also like, yeah, okay, but is it real? Like it’s the, it’s a big, it’s a really big turbine. It’s going pretty high, but like offshore, um, there are, I think, onshore turbines being announced that are gonna go as high or higher because, you know, onshore, um, turbines have much taller towers than, than offshore. So I actually don’t think that it probably is a record for the tallest, like, tip that’s scraping. This is a thing that’s always happened, and sure, that’s interesting to have a look at and see if it has any local impact. It’s not like it’s, it’s not creating energy, right? It’s not gonna warm up, um, the, the planet. I mean, it’s, yeah, taking energy out of the, the air and then converting it to electricity. Um, so overall you’re gonna end up with the same amount of, of energy. But yeah, could be interesting to study, study what’s happening specifically.  Matthew Stead: I think it’s a so what question. You know, so what? I mean, I can sneeze and [00:10:00] I’d change the local environment, but who cares if I sneeze and change the local environment? You know, the, you know, the weather is inherently turbulent and, you know- There’s mixing and there’s all sorts of stuff naturally occurring. Yeah, my question is, so what?  Rosemary Barnes: Yeah. I mean, it’s interesting in terms of, like, wakes of wind turbines and, you know, there’s, uh, people are researching that more because it’s not well enough understood, I think, for some of the really big offshore wind regions where there’s heaps of different wind farms and, you know, like, you’re gonna wanna know if you’ve got a win- an existing wind farm or you’re planning one, and then they sell, um, rights to build one immediately upstream of you, then, you know, you’re gonna wanna understand how, how all that local atmospheric stuff is, is happening exactly. Um, but yeah, like, it’s not, it’s not quite new and it’s not, yeah, like you said, it’s not unique to wind turbines. Um, so yeah, it is, like, slightly interesting, I would say. 5 out of 10 interesting.  Allen Hall: How much time should we spend on contrails? [00:11:00] Because we spent a good 20 minutes before we started this podcast talking about contrails, which is a one or maybe a negative one on the scale of should I follow this? Rosemary Barnes: How interesting is the fact that air travel is contributing to climate change? How interesting is that on a scale of one to 10?  Allen Hall: Zero.  Matthew Stead: Eight.  Allen Hall: It’s like the, it’s like the cow argument, right?  Rosemary Barnes: Allen doesn’t care about climate change. That’s okay.  Allen Hall: You asked me to put it on a ranking of where it is in importance. It’s, it’s nowhere near m- even a five.  Rosemary Barnes: Yeah. So Yves said zero. Matt said eight. What about you, Yolanda? How, how interesting is the fact that air travel impacts climate change?  Yolanda Padron: I think it’s, like, a six.  Rosemary Barnes: Six. Okay. And so did you know that, um, airplanes are 2.5% of the world’s emissions, um, come from air, air travel? And did you know that I think it’s [00:12:00] 4% of the world’s warming comes from air travel? Of the warming, two-thirds of the warming that is caused by air travel or airplanes, uh, could be freight as well, it’s not to do with CO2. So some of that is, you know, like other, um, gases like NOx is a pretty potent greenhouse gas. Contrails are the biggest single component, the single biggest factor causing warming from, um, from air travel. And it’s not, it’s not necessary. You know, every airplane doesn’t create contrails in every trip. It’s, it’s a small number. Like, it’s a pretty small number of trips that are making contrails, and if we can better understand how like, what are the factors that lead to a contrail being formed or not, then we can avoid them and, you know, get rid of a, a percent or two of the world’s global warming. I think that’s just really huge.  Matthew Stead: What would you do about it, Rosie?  Rosemary Barnes: There’s a couple of solutions I know that other people are working on that sound very interesting to me. So the first is that if you change the fuel, like, [00:13:00] um, to sustainable aviation fuel, like a, a biofuel, some of those that have been tested also produce less contrails. I don’t know the exact reason why. Would be interesting to find out. That’s one thing. But secondly, um, if you can get good data about, like, very local atmospheric conditions and, you know, let the world’s airplane fleet can communicate with each other and some AI processing in real time, you can make small changes to your flight path to avoid making contrails, and yeah, you get, um, a small increase in, in f- fuel burn, I guess, from deviating from the most efficient route, but a big, big inc- um, decrease in contrails. Uh, so I think both of those are really promising solutions.  Allen Hall: It’s not that easy It isn’t like every airplane’s out there changing its altitude to keep away from creating contrails. There’s whole systems, thousands of people working at any one moment to keep airplanes up in the air. So it, it’s not something you just willy-nilly say, [00:14:00] “AI can adjust my altitude or my flight plan to deviate so I can prevent contrails.” It’s not that easy. It’s actually a huge undertaking, and it may end up burning more fuel.  Rosemary Barnes: Oh, I mean, it’s an incredibly complex system to keep airplanes up and not colliding. Um, I believe it’s not centrally planned. It’s not like you’re not logging your whole flight path any- anymore. I, I listened to a podcast about this the other day, and in the past you used to log your entire flight plan and not deviate from it, but now it, it’s done a bit on the fly. So I’m sure that there are already hundreds or thousands of factors that an aircraft computer is taking into account, um, when it’s figuring out exactly where it’s gonna go, and this would be another bit of complexity. I don’t, I don’t think it’s easy, otherwise we’d already be doing it. But I think it’s, it’s promising. And I think it’s easier than making hydrogen airplanes, for example. I think it’s easier than electrifying airplanes. And the fact of it is that even if you do [00:15:00] have sustainable aviation fuel, if it’s still making contrails, it’s still causing warming. So if you wanna actually s- solve, uh, you know, heating from flying, then you have to, you have to tackle the contrail part of the problem. It’s the biggest, it’s the biggest chunk on its own, bigger than CO2.  Matthew Stead: So did we get here by talking about possible contrails from wind turbines? Is that what we were talking about?  Rosemary Barnes: No. It was because Allen was saying before that we were gonna go off the rails, and he’s like, “Oh, you know what? In no time we’ll be talking about contrails,” like using it as an example of a tinfoil hat-wearing person. And I’m like, “Actually, that is a tinfoil hat that I do like to wear,” the contrails one. Um, not because I think the government is controlling me, uh, with with, you know, targeted hor- hormone or chemical releases via contrails, but because of the global warming potential.  Matthew Stead: Could a, a really tall wind turbine create contrails? What, what’s the physics behind that?  Allen Hall: [00:16:00] It’s just, um, water, right? So you’re just condensing water and shoving it out the back. When you’re burning hydrocarbons, it’s one of the byproducts, right? It’s like in, when, in an internal combustion engine, you see water dripping out the tailpipe. It’s this very similar kind of thing. Uh, so how much water comes out is dependent upon somewhat the fuel, as Rosie’s pointed out, so you can slightly change it, but a lot of it has to do with the temperature, altitude, pressure moisture content of the air, all those different factors play into it. So you’d have to have, in order to go look at it, you’d have to have a bunch of sensors on the airplane, which, which the aircraft may have some of them, but probably not enough to determine if they’re creating contrails besides looking out the window to see what’s coming out on the backside of the engine. Matthew Stead: A wind turbine could not create contrails. The pressure differential and the, the vapor pressure-  Allen Hall: Yeah, it’s not enough to, you’re, you’re not, you’re not changing temperatures enough, [00:17:00] right? So you, you basically have to change the dew point. That’s the way I would think about it. You have to change the dew point somehow, which I guess you could do maybe by a degree or so locally, you may be able to, to change it, and maybe you could. Um, well, we have seen tip vortices, right? So tip vortices, you have seen these contrails off the, the tips of, of, of aircraft wings.  Rosemary Barnes: But are they durable? You know, ’cause like, yeah, you see tip vortices off, yeah, off wing, wingtips, off wind turbine tips as well. But I don’t think they stay in the air after, you know, they, um, you can see them, and then they dissipate usually. Allen Hall: Yeah, it, it depends. You’ll see it when aircraft land quite a bit. Depends on what the temperature, humidity is at that particular moment, but th- those will, those will hang around a little bit  Rosemary Barnes: But I mean, certainly you can, you can, um, cause droplets to freeze from a wind turbine being there. That’s how they get iced up, is that their… Or either their water was super cooled to begin with and it just needs a, a surface to latch onto so that the crystal can, [00:18:00] um, form or also, yeah, like, I mean, in the aerodynamics there is that point between where the air goes over and under and you, um, sta- stagnation or-  Allen Hall: Stagnation point?  Rosemary Barnes: Yeah. So you can, um, you, you could get some freezing there. Allen Hall: You can create cold zones.  Rosemary Barnes: I, as far as I know, all that stuff is just causing ice to build up on the blade. I don’t think that it’s, um… Yeah. And anyway, even if it did, like even if you did affect the, um, you know, have some ice particles forming in the, um, the wake then it’s just going to, or I don’t know, get hit the next time the, the, the blade goes through or, yeah, fa- fall out I would think ’cause it’s quite close to the ground  Allen Hall: but- Just to tie into what Rosemary’s saying, although I think wasting time on contrails is not worth the effort, I do think meteorologists do not do enough work on big changes that are happening to the planet in regards to, like, renewable energy is one of them, like wind turbines. I [00:19:00] haven’t seen a lot of work done about are wind turbines changing the temperature locally or not. I mean, they- I’ve seen some top level things, solar panels, but the same thing could be seen about shipping.  Rosemary Barnes: Oh, I mean shipping, shipping was, shipping was, um, cooling the planet until we, um, brought in restrictions on how much, um, sulfur emissions that you could, you could make. But can I use this to actually plug a, um, a, a pro- a collaborative project that we’re about to start where actually, uh, this is quite specific to Australia, to Queensland and Northern New South Wales. We’ve got a study, uh, collaborative study from a bunch of wind farms in that area and getting some academic researchers involved to look at how, like very detailed how lightning is in that region. And one of the questions that we’re gonna look at is what, h- how has the, um, the presence of wind farms, like when wind farms are built, how has that affected the local lightning, um, area? [00:20:00] So we’re gonna be able to answer, uh, you know, like to what extent have these wind farms caused increases in In lightning  Allen Hall: Or decreases  Rosemary Barnes: Or decreases. I’d, I, oof, yeah. I, I’d be surprised if it was decreases, and I will say, like, yeah, that area of Queensland, northern New South Wales, um, you know, they get kind of tropical storms, um, heaps and heaps of lightning, you know, hundreds hundreds of, um, strikes in a single storm sometimes, you know, and, you know, in one wind farm. But even if you think, like, uh, down in Victoria, New South Wales and Victoria, where you look at a lightning map and there should be very little lightning there, there are certain sites that are actually having huge problems with lightning, like way more strikes than you would expect based on the map, and I think that partly that’s also ’cause it just varies locally. But the other thing is, like, a l- a lot more of really damaging strikes. It is something that’s the world needs to do more of, is looking into, like, really local lightning, understanding how the wind farm is interacting with the lightning, causing lightning, how it differs from place to place. [00:21:00] I’m really hoping that, yeah, this, this one study that we’re working on now, and anyone who has a wind farm in that area, Queensland, northern New South Wales, if you wanna be involved, get in touch. The more people involved, the cheaper it is. But I think that that’s definitely something that can improve how lightning protection systems are, are designed, if we just know, like, what’s, what’s happening. ‘Cause there aren’t great links between OEMs doing the design and people in the field experiencing damage. Like, they don’t talk. Even when it’s the same company, you know, if it’s Vestas or GE that designed the turbine and is now servicing the turbines, they, they don’t necessarily talk to each other as much as, um, would be ideal.  Allen Hall: Using the EOLOGIX-PING lightning sensors, we just completed a study over a five-year period, uh, just about that subject. Rosemary Barnes: Where, where did you do that?  Allen Hall: In the States.  Rosemary Barnes: And will you be publishing the results and sending a, a letter to Vestas and GE and Siemens and whoever else and send them a letter, “Attention lightning expert”? [00:22:00] Matthew Stead: We’re probably just gonna put it on the website.  Rosemary Barnes: But is there even a, a, a conference, a, a conference for wind turbines and lightning? Con- considering it’s, like, one of the number one O&M things, like we’re-  Matthew Stead: There’s one in Melbourne next year in February.  Rosemary Barnes: I wasn’t attempting to, um, set the stage for, uh, this is why everyone has to come to our event. I mean, it, it, it’s so strange to me that there isn’t just, you know, like, a big conference every year. I mean, it could be every two years where all of the univ- like there’s heaps of people researching it, heaps of people working on designing on it, heaps of people working on operating it, repairing it when it doesn’t work, and, um-  Allen Hall: I think they’re looking at it from a very, uh, local scale And looking at a turbine taking a lightning strike and the things you can do to reduce damage or what the, the physics are locally, ’cause we don’t understand all that much about lightning, honestly. However, on a, on a larger scale, which is what the effort we’re working on right now, is that we’re looking at several states that are right in the thunderstorm alley and where [00:23:00] there’s a lot of wind turbines, thousands and thousands of wind turbines. What you see is, uh, a real change in the, in the weather patterns and in lightning, but it depends on the time of year. And having the EOLOGIX-PING lightning sensors on gives us a better sense of the number of strikes that are occurring, where they’re occurring on the wind farms. Uh, o- otherwise, all the other services that you could use wouldn’t be nearly as accurate. A lot of false positives.  Rosemary Barnes: But I wanna say, like, I think you’re so right that lightning it- it’s very local, like, and s- lightning behaves differently depending where you are. It dep- dep- behaves differently or it affects your turbine differently depending on what kind of LPS you’ve got. But the problem is that it’s not like there’s, um, you know, a catalog of LPSs and you’re like, “This one suits the lightning in Japan, and this one suits the lightning in Queensland.” It’s one– Y- if you want a GE turbine, this is the, it comes with a certain type of LPS, and the same with, with Vestas and, you know, ev- every other manufacturer. And they’ve all, I’m sure, got types of lightning that [00:24:00] they are better or worse suited to, but the information is, is certainly not out there for someone who’s choosing a turbine, and I don’t think that it’s actually properly understood by, by anyone. Because, like, who’s measuring all of the characteristics that you would need to know to design the LPS better? Almost no one. Most of the people doing that in the world are probably, yeah, on this podcast today. Um, but it’s, uh… And, and when they are being measured, is it being communicated back to every OEM so they can know? Like, of course it’s, it’s not.  Allen Hall: I’ll give you a good example because it happened over the past week or two. Looking at a wind turbine blade that had some damage to it, and the question was, was it caused by lightning? That was the question. And that’s a really good question. So I thought, “Oh, this will be easy,” because there’s gonna be a plethora of- lightning test data reports talking about testing of this particular kind of aluminum mesh on fiberglass surfaces, and [00:25:00] there really is not much. I was shocked by it. So I always think like if, if I can’t put my fingers on it readily, then what is a blade engineer or a site supervisor or someone who owns an asset’s gonna do?  Rosemary Barnes: I saw a presentation at Wind Europe last year or whenever I went, when I met with, with you both, probably both of you there, um, uh, that Polytech did where they had done some fatigue testing, um, of copper mesh and its lightning, um, protecting capabilities. And they did f- they, so they, you know, put some mesh into, um, fatigue testing, I, I think, or they, they damaged it a bit with a bit fatigue, some micro cracks and stuff. And they just did find that it heated up a lot after that. Um, you know, after it was a bit damaged, they were getting like real hot spots. And so then you’re gonna start to see laminate damage, um, in the, the area underneath that. So yeah, I, I think that more, more, like it’s a, it’s a good step that we’re now thinking [00:26:00] of, you know, protecting better than what we used to do with just, you know, one receptor in the, the tip and a cable, especially, you know, throw in carbon fiber and you, you know, make a second electrically conductive path and have flashover and stuff. It’s really great that, you know, we’ve evolved beyond that design, but it’s not finished yet. Like th- all those designs are new. There’s a lot of them out there. It sound like everyone’s like, “Oh, it’s, you know, we don’t have to worry if it’s got mesh over the whole blade.” It’s like, okay, maybe you don’t have to worry. Maybe, maybe you do. We, we kind of have to, have to keep on monitoring those for a few years and sharing the information.  Allen Hall: As wind energy professionals, staying informed is crucial, and let’s face it, difficult. That’s why the Uptime Podcast recommends PES Wind Magazine. PES Wind offers a diverse range of in-depth articles and expert insights that dive into the most pressing issues facing our energy future. Whether you’re an industry veteran or new to wind, PES Wind has the high-quality content you need. Don’t miss out. Visit [00:27:00] peswind.com today. In the current issue of PES Wind Magazine, there are a number of great articles. If you haven’t received your copy, you should just go to peswind.com and where you can read it and download a copy. Well, uh, this issue has an article from ZF and talking about gearboxes. And as we all know, inside every gearbox there are bearings and surfaces. Those tend to be the weak links when things break. And for decades, the industry has used roller bearings and, uh, the same kind basically you find in other machines. Uh, they work, but they do wear out. And how many times have you seen bearings, roller bearings wear out inside of gearboxes? Quite a bit. So– And they, they, they break down, they go offline. It’s, it’s a big problem. But ZF Wind Power says it has cracked the code with its hydrodynamic plain bearings. The company has already installed 36 gigawatts of gearboxes [00:28:00] using this technology, and they say field inspections show no measurable wear. Uh, the next generation, uh, which is a single film design, is heading to production in 2027. So ZF uses a different technique to keep their gearboxes running for a long time, which is, uh, it’s a simple device mechanically, but it is quite complicated in the way you have to design materials. Uh, basically plain bearings are what’s used in, in internal combustion engine around camshafts and things of that sort. But designing those and making sure you have the right materials is the trick, Matthew, and you’ve been around cars for quite a while. It’s, it’s the right approach if you can make it work, and it looks like ZF has done a really good job of making these, uh, bearing services work.  Matthew Stead: Yeah, it sounds like a, a perfect, uh, innovation. I, I heard about this the first time, I think it was a couple of years ago. And, and like you said, Allen, um, you know, cars for the [00:29:00] last 100 years or so have, have been using journal bearings. I probably need to fact check that one. It may not be 100 years yet, but definitely cars from a long time ago have been using these, um, these bearings. Um, I, I think, uh, one question is, though, around condition monitoring. You know, how do you actually monitor the condition of the, the s- the surfaces? Um, you know, with a traditional roller bearing, you can use, you know, vibration techniques. I’m not aware of as many condition monitoring techniques for, for the journal bearings. Um, perhaps, um, obviously the oil, oil particle and, you know, checking the oil quality, et cetera, et cetera. But, um, that might be where the gap might occur. But You know, if they’re lasting, if they’re not degrading, um, there’s no moving parts, um, yeah, great  Allen Hall: The issue is lubrication, right? Because you’ve got basically two well-designed flat metal surfaces that you have to provide lubrication to, and those two surfaces are moving relative to one another. The lubrication [00:30:00] matters ’cause you’re literally riding on a very, very thin layer of lubricant. So making sure the lubricant gets in there, that it’s, it’s clean, and it’s always available, uh, is the trick. That’s why in today’s world, a lot of internal combustion engines can go several hundred thousand miles in a vehicle because the lubrication systems have gotten so much better over the last 50, 60 years. And ZF is probably using something very similar, where the, the technology has gotten better and the metallurg- the metallurgy has gotten way better, and control of that. Because the, the bearing surface really matters, and there’s two pieces to it, right? You got this rotating– To simplify it, you got a rotating shaft, and then you have this bearing surface that that shaft sits on. The, the rotating shaft is gonna be made out of something relatively hard, where the bearing surface is gonna be made out of a mixture of metals that is a little bit soft. So if anything goes wrong, that bearing surface, that little race right there, uh, will wear, [00:31:00] and you can replace it. But if kept lubricated and cleaned and proper, that will run dang near forever, as ZF has proven. Matthew Stead: I think it’s the starting load. I think it’s when it’s at stationary and then starts. So I’m getting that initial lubrication. From my understanding, that’s where the, where the challenge lies. And, you know, obviously in a combustion engine in a vehicle, it’s starting and stopping all the time. So, um, but I just wonder, are the loads higher? Um, how does that occur in a, in a actual, um, gearbox on a, a turbine?  Allen Hall: Right. It’s not like a main, uh, shaft bearing, right? The– It’s, it’s in a gearbox. You have a lot of planetary gears and a lot of rotating com- pieces there But the, I think the trick is, one, understanding what’s happening load-wise, and hydrodynamic bearings can have some issues if things are twisting in weird ways. So a gearbox is probably the right place to do this technique because of it’s a [00:32:00] controlled environment necessarily.  Matthew Stead: Alignment.  Allen Hall: Yeah. So you can, you can control how the, the loads are carried internally to it, which would make it last a lot longer. S- because roller bearings and, and all of the complexities around that, uh, we’ve seen those fail so many times inside of wind turbines because it’s hard to control everything about that. Al- although they, they can be extremely durable, I would say ZF is onto something in, in terms of delivering a gearbox that can actually run longer using, uh, good engineering. That’s what it is. It’s just really good engineering. So if you haven’t seen this issue of PES Wind, you should download it today. Go to peswind.com. That wraps up another episode of the Uptime Wind Energy podcast. If today’s discussion sparked any questions or ideas, we’d love to hear from you. Reach out to us on LinkedIn. And don’t forget to subscribe so you [00:33:00] never miss an episode. And if you found value in today’s conversation, please leave us a review. It really helps other wind energy professionals discover the show. So for Rosie, Yolanda, and Matthew, I’m Allen Hall, and we’ll see you here next week on the Uptime Wind Energy podcast.

Enerji Günlüğü Haber Bülteni:Türkiye'nin ve Dünyanın Enerji Gündemienerjigunlugu.net

Allen covers how private equity firm Energy Capital Partners ended up owning wind blade factories, TPI Composites’ bankruptcy, and the decades-long GE Vernova relationship behind the rescue. Sign up now for Uptime Tech News, our weekly newsletter on all things wind technology. This episode is sponsored by Weather Guard Lightning Tech. Learn more about Weather Guard’s StrikeTape Wind Turbine LPS retrofit. Follow the show on YouTube, Linkedin and visit Weather Guard on the web. And subscribe to Rosemary’s “Engineering with Rosie” YouTube channel here. Have a question we can answer on the show? Email us! Speaker: Happy Monday, everyone. Well, there is a company most people have never heard of quietly positioning itself at the very center of America’s energy future. Its name is Energy Capital Partners. It’s a private equity firm headquartered up in Summit, New Jersey. But to understand how ECP ended up owning wind blade factories, you have to start with gas turbines and a power company called Calpine. See, back in 2001, Calpine placed one of the most audacious turbine orders ever recorded, 203 GE gas turbines. enough to power 50,000 megawatts of base load generation. GE did [00:01:00] not just sell Calpine turbines. The two companies co-developed power plants together. GE co-owned facilities. Calpine held options to buy them back. It was a less a vendor relationship and more of a marriage. In 2018, Energy Capital Partners bought Calpine, All 77 power plants, 26,000 megawatts of generation capacity, and every long-term GE service agreement that came with it. And for the next seven years, ECP was GE’s single most consequential private sector gas turbine customer in the Western Hemisphere. That relationship, built on decades of iron and service contracts, would soon reach far beyond gas. Because on the other side of the energy world, a very different kind of company was falling apart, and that was TPI Composites. For years, the world’s largest independent maker of wind turbine blades. [00:02:00] facilities in Iowa, in Mexico, in India, and in Turkey. More than 9,600 employees worldwide. But the cracks were forming long before anyone said bankruptcy. First came the debt. TPI had borrowed heavily from Oaktree Capital Management and by the time the end arrived, the company owed Oaktree $476 million, secured against substantially all of its assets. Then came the customers. Nordex walked away from its Matamoros facility, shutting it down at the end of the second quarter of 2024. Then came customs. US Customs and Border Protection launched a review of TPI’s Mexico facilities under the Uyghur Forced Labor Prevention Act. TPI maintained its supply chain had no connection to forced labor, but the law did not care about confidence. Cared about proof, and while TPI worked to prove its innocence, a substantial portion of its Mexico-made blades could not cross the border into [00:03:00] the United States. The backlog told the story in numbers. At the end of 2024, there were $237 million in orders. One year later, $114 million in orders, cut nearly in half. On August 11th of last year, TPI filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy, delisted from NASDAQ about eight days later. Now, when a company heads into bankruptcy, the first thing it has to solve is a very human problem. How do you keep the people who know how to run the place from walking out the door? Well, TPI’s board had an answer. Two months before the bankruptcy filing, the compensation committee approved retention bonuses for key executives, paid in cash within 30 days. The CEO, $1,225,000. The CFO, $518,000. The COO, [00:04:00] $487,000. And of course, the general counsel, $435,000. But there was one condition, you had to stay through restructuring. If you left early, you had to give it all back. Well, they stayed, at least most of them have. In the months that followed, TPI sold off its Turkish operations. Vestas moved quickly, claiming the India and Matamoros plants for roughly $24 million. And then the phone rang in Summit, New Jersey. GE Vernova needed its blade supply secured. It had a decades-long relationship with the firm on the other end of that call, a relationship forged not in composite factories, but in gas turbine halls. Through a newly formed entity called ECP Blade Holdings, Energy Capital Partners is acquiring TPI’s remaining North American assets , plants up in Newton, Iowa, down in Juarez, Mexico, for about $20 [00:05:00] million. The management team that had guided TPI through its darkest chapter came with it. And embedded in the transaction was a five-year supply agreement requiring GE Vernova to direct a defined share of its blade procurement exclusively to ECP-operated facilities. Well, if this deal had fallen apart, GE Vernova itself was contractually bound as a backup buyer, obligated to step in and at least purchase the Iowa plant for $21 million. GE Vernova was simultaneously ECP’s partner, its customer , and in this case, its buyer of last resort. Two companies, one relationship stretching back about 25 years through gas turbine orders, power plant co-ownership, long-term service contracts, and now wind blade factories rescued from bankruptcy court. A company laid low by debt, customs blockades, and lost contracts, its people paid to [00:06:00] stay, its factory sold for pennies on the dollar, and now rising again under new ownership to supply the very turbines powering America’s AI-driven energy future And that’s the state of the wind industry for the 1st of June 2026. Have a great week

NextEra’s $67B all-stock Dominion deal targets data center alley. Plus China’s top five each outpace Vestas, and 80% of Swedish wind producers ran at a loss. Sign up now for Uptime Tech News, our weekly email update on all things wind technology. This episode is sponsored by Weather Guard Lightning Tech. Learn more about Weather Guard’s StrikeTape Wind Turbine LPS retrofit. Follow the show on Facebook, YouTube, Twitter, Linkedin and visit Weather Guard on the web. And subscribe to Rosemary Barnes’ YouTube channel here. Have a question we can answer on the show? Email us! [00:00:00] The Uptime Wind Energy podcast, brought to you by StrikeTape, protecting thousands of wind turbines from lightning damage worldwide. Visit striketape.com. And now, your hosts Speaker 6: Welcome to the Uptime Wind Energy podcast. I’m your host, Allen Hall, and I’m here with three other people, Matthew Stead, Rosemary Barnes, and, uh, Yolanda Padron down in Texas. Uh, we’re all getting ready to go to American Clean Power in Houston, Texas, where it will be practically 150 degrees and 99% humidity, and we’re all looking forward to those warm, wet days that we will spend It is very similar to New Orleans. New Orleans was also very warm and very humid. So there’s a trend going on here with American Clean Power, although we were up in Minneapolis not too long ago, uh, but I guess we were in Phoenix too, so we gotta find a middle ground, everybody. Can we go someplace like– [00:01:00] Rosemary says we should always go to the Maldives, Tahiti. I got a lot of requests from Tahiti from people. We never go there. We never go to Hawaii.  Rosemary Barnes: I’ve suggested Hawaii so many times, and I’ve been told that Americans are not gonna be given permission from their manager to go to Hawaii.  Speaker 6: It’s kinda like Las Vegas.  Rosemary Barnes: Maybe one day we’ll make it to San Diego or something and get, um, beach adjacent facility And if your presentation is too boring, then everyone will be at the beach. So that will be how we ensure quality control of the speakers, which is a big problem at these events now, right? Like you can’t, um, there’s– It’s more like the norm is fairly boring sales pitches rather than informative discussion.  Speaker 6: We used to have OMNS, when I say we, I mean the wind community used to have OMNS out in San Diego in Coronado at the Del Coronado is, I think that’s the hotel name. And the one time that I went, I think I’ve been [00:02:00] there, I would say one time, uh, everybody was outside on the, at the beach, basically on the patio. So they’re holding all these talks and discussions, and it’s… I’m looking around, it’s like me and five other people. Everybody else is out there next to the water. So they had a problem with that. So I guess what they figured, either make it really cold or make it really hot, so it forces everybody into the climate-controlled conditions of, uh, the, uh, auditorium to watch the speakers. Maybe that’s the, the plan. All right. Let’s, let’s, let’s talk about what happened with NextEra and Dominion because there’s going to be a huge merger. So if you thought utility business was boring, it’s not anymore. NextEra announced a sixty-seven billion dollar all-stock deal to acquire Dominion Energy, a move that would create the largest regulated electricity utility in the world by market cap. Uh, [00:03:00] the combined company would serve about ten million customers accounts across Florida, Virginia, North Carolina, where I’m based, and South Carolina with one hundred and ten gigawatts of generation across renewables, nuclear, and natural gas. Uh, but the real driver here is data centers, of course. Dominion sits in the heart of Virginia’s data center alley, where it has connected more than four hundred and fifty data centers, and NextEra is building thirty data center hubs through its NextEra Energy Resources subsidiary and has partnered with Google Cloud on paired generation campuses. So together, they would control about a hundred and thirty gigawatts of large load pipeline. And the question is whether the regulators will let it happen. And I think that’s, having watched some of the news articles over the last several days, uh, the news broke pretty much Sunday morning or late Saturday night that this was happening and [00:04:00] The first thing that came to mind, are the regulators going to let it happen? And the concern is going to be, and you can well imagine how this plays out, they’re going to drag Dominion and NextEra up to Washington, D.C. and berate them about how electricity rates cannot increase due to data centers. And if they don’t swear to that, then this merger won’t happen. That’s my interpretation of what’s about to happen. It may not, but how does this play out? How does everybody else on the team at Uptime see this play out?  Matthew Stead: Seems like a good idea to me. So more economies, more geographic diversity, more opportunity for renewables.  Yolanda Padron: I can’t speak to Dominion, um, but being relatively close to the NextEra engineering team, they, they really know their stuff, right? So I think it’s something that should kind of give us a, a sense of relief here that it, [00:05:00] it’s a big team, but it’s a really smart and competent team taking over a big undertaking.  Speaker 6: You would like to see renewables and data centers work together. This would be the perfect match of the two, right? The, the largest renewable owner management company, along with the biggest data center, uh, region. Connecting those two would make infinite sense, but in the, our political environment today in the United States, that may be the reason to oppose it.  Matthew Stead: Yeah, why would it be a bad idea?  Speaker 6: Windmills, Matthew. Windmills. Windmills are bad. Can’t even call them wind turbines anymore. They’re windmills.  Rosemary Barnes: I used to mock people for saying windmill instead of wind turbine, but then when I moved to Denmark, um, you know, who, you know, have a firm, firm ownership of modern wind energy, or at least did back 10, 20 years ago They say windmill when they speak English. Um, the Danish word for it is vindmølle, um, which means windmill. [00:06:00]And so I can’t… I couldn’t maintain that, that energy because like, am I gonna, am I gonna mock these, you know, like everybody at that company knew more about wind energy than I did. Am I gonna mock them for not, not knowing the difference between a windmill and a wind turbine? No. So yeah, that’s, that’s something that I, I don’t do anymore.  Matthew Stead: That is really valuable to know, um, Rosie. I must admit, I did not know that, and I would mock people saying w- windmill, so thank you for setting me straight.  Rosemary Barnes: Yeah, there are plenty of, um, plenty of people who don’t know the difference between a windmill and a wind turbine and think, “Oh, why you only got three blades with so much air between them? You know, you’re gonna… Y- if you would just put twice as many blades, you’d get twice as many energy. Everybody who works in wind energy is just an obs- obvious complete and utter idiot.” Um, so there’s that kind of person, but then there’s also the industry. Another fun fact that they call the blades wings. Uh, um, yeah, in Danish they call them blade wings, which they are. [00:07:00] Speaker 6: In Spanish, isn’t it shovels? ‘Cause when I always translate those, uh, Spanish questions over to English, it always comes out shovel. At least early on, y- the early versions of Google Translate would translate it to shovel. Like, what are they talking about shovel on a wind turbine? That doesn’t make any sense.  Yolanda Padron: Yeah, like a shovel or a stick or like a, what you row with.  Speaker 6: Oh, like an oar. Okay, that makes a lot more sense. Okay. Thank you, Yolanda.  Matthew Stead: I think it’s really interesting that, um- We don’t have much material on NextEra, Dominion. Um, yeah, we just don’t think it’s a good– We all think it’s a good idea. There’s no controversy here.  Speaker 6: Oh, there’ll be controversy. Don’t worry about that. There’s always controversy. Welcome to America.  Matthew Stead: But among the four of us-  Speaker 6: We all think it’s great.  Rosemary Barnes: Well, it’s, um, I mean, some of the interesting facts that I read was that they’ve got 130 gigawatts of load, um, that they’re bringing to the table, and 51 gigawatts of that is contracted data centers. So that’s, that’s interesting. [00:08:00] And I think large amounts of new data centers on the grid are controversial because in– if you’re not very, very careful about how you integrate them, then you can end up just making electricity more expensive for everybody in the area that doesn’t necessarily get, you know, profit sharing from the data center. So, um, I think that, uh, like, you know, the wind ind- in the wind industry, we’ve obviously been through and are still in the phase of where social license, um, community acceptance is one of the most important things, maybe the most important thing when you’re developing a new project. And I think that we’re just at the start of that realization for data centers as well. Companies that are building the, the data centers, they need to do more than what’s required of them because otherwise they have big risks of project delays. It’s millions of dollars delay, um, for the delay for, um, yeah, for every, every day that, um, a data center is held up. And so how can you afford to risk annoying anybody? [00:09:00] You know, you just wanna be like the just, just perfect, um, addition to the community so that everybody is just happy and, and lets the project proceed. So, yeah, I thought– think that that’s, that’s quite an interesting aspect that I think I’m gonna s- we’re gonna see changing as, you know, all these planned data centers become real data centers. There’s a real risk that everybody hates data centers soon as much as they, um, hated wind tur- um, wind farms for a while.  Yolanda Padron: For the consumer, aren’t there, like, I don’t know if they’re in Virginia, but aren’t there price caps too for the market? When you’re– When it comes to how expensive the megawatt hour is? Speaker 6: Not necessarily. Re- remember that AEP in Ohio, uh, was requiring data centers to buy electricity at a certain amount. Because they both basically committed not to raise prices for electricity to the local communities, and that would be really hard to do. And okay, great, if, if they can pull it off, awesome. But there’s already a lot of [00:10:00] pushback about it, and it hasn’t even gotten to the point of being real yet, so it’s only gonna get worse. I see. And all the data centers are gonna be up in space no matter what. Everybody’s talking about building data centers on the ground. There’s no shot that that’s gonna happen. I’m just telling you, ’cause they can’t do it. They don’t– They can’t build gas turbines fast enough. There’s just limitations there, and transformers and everything else. It’s gonna be in space. It’s so much easier.  Yolanda Padron: And all the approvals you have to get and everything.  Speaker 6: It will be easier to do it in space In space, you don’t have neighbors. Matthew Stead: I said it before, it’s just crazy. The key issue around data centers is it’s actually the transmission rather than generation. I mean, you know, at least in Australia, and correct me if I’m wrong, Rosie, but you know, less than half the price in Australia is generation. The other half is sort of retail and transmission and this and that. And so actually, you know, the generation cost shouldn’t really increase. It’s really the transmission and the, the poles and the wires, which are the problem. And [00:11:00] you know, to your point, Rosie, social, social license for poles and wires.  Rosemary Barnes: I’m actually really surprised at Allen, ’cause normally, Allen and I have this, um, you know, we’ve played out this scenario probably 50 or 100 times over the, over the years with emerging technologies, and it’s always me that’s like, “You know what? I think, uh, I think there’s something to this one.” Um, and Allen always poo-poos it, and in this case, Allen’s, Allen’s excited. I, I’m on Allen’s– So I also, I also think space data centers is, is a thing that’s more likely to happen than not, at least to some extent. Um, so yeah, but I think, Matt, you’ve got the more mainstream opinion. Speaker 6: The voice of the common man. I  Yolanda Padron: think for all of our listeners out there, this is the first time Rosie and Allen agree on anything, so round of applause team.  Speaker 6: It won’t last long, Yolande.  Rosemary Barnes: It’s not true because, you know, nine out of 10 new technologies I also think are stupid. Um, so Allen and I agree on the bulk of them, but then of that one in 10, you know, nine out of 10 of those I, I [00:12:00] like and Allen doesn’t, so this is the, you know, the one-tenth of the one-tenth, so. Speaker 6: I don’t like gas turbines. Can we all agree we don’t like gas turbines? It’s– That would be insane to scale.  Rosemary Barnes: You know what? I, I don’t have a particular problem with gas, gas turbines. I don’t want a lot of new gas turbines. Um, I guess that that’s– We can all agree on, on that. I don’t think the– I think we have most of the gas turbines that we need, or at least, um, will in the next couple of years. And, um, yeah, I do think that their existence supports faster electrification, um, and faster growth of wind and solar. So I’m definitely not someone that wants to see all gas turbines turned off tomorrow.  Speaker 6: No, I don’t, I don’t want to turn them off. I’m  Matthew Stead: just saying you can’t get to scale. Speaker 6: Delamination and bond line failures in blades are difficult problems to detect early. These hidden issues can cost you millions in repairs and lost energy production. CIC NDT are specialists to detect these critical flaws before they become [00:13:00] expensive burdens. Their non-destructive test technology penetrates deep into blade materials to find voids and cracks traditional inspections completely miss. CIC NDT maps every critical defect, delivers actionable reports, and provides support to get your blades back in service. So  Matthew Stead: visit cicndt.com because catching blade problems early will save you  Speaker 6: millions. Well, for the first time, five Chinese turbine manufacturers have all individually outpaced Danish wind giant Vestas in annual installations. Goldwind topped the global list with twenty-nine point seven gigawatts installed in twenty twenty-five. Behind them, Envision put up twenty-one point eight, Windy nineteen point eight, Mingyang at eighteen point six, and Sany at fifteen point one gigawatts. Vestas came in [00:14:00] sixth at twelve point nine gigawatts. The Chinese dominance was fueled by an enormous domestic market that has accounted for about ninety-four percent of those five manufacturers’ sales. Uh, but exports are obviously growing out of China too. The five captured nearly sixty percent of the hundred and seventy-eight gigawatts installed globally in twenty twenty-five, a year that saw the world market grow forty percent over twenty twenty-four. So Vestas still holds the crown for cumulative installations at two hundred and one gigawatts, but the gap in annual volume is now almost impossible to ignore. So Vestas has a lot of competition over in China. The, the amount of, uh, gigawatts coming out of the largest manufacturers in China is quite impressive, almost, well, more than double than what, uh, Vestas is doing, and Vestas is doing a pretty brisk business. What are, what are the outcomes of this, everyone? Is, can this be sustained in China [00:15:00] for very much longer? Can they continue to, to create at, at that rate?  Rosemary Barnes: Yes. Okay, move, move on to the next segment  Speaker 6: Well, that’s a, that’s a huge amount of gigawatts coming out of China. And if 94% of it’s staying in China, eventually you run out of China to put wind turbines in. Rosemary Barnes: They– I mean, we’re a long way from running out of places in China to put wind turbines in, because China is gigantic. A lot of it is not that populated. They’ve got a lot of offshore area still. But I just think it’s gonna follow the same playbook as, as solar probably, where you see, you know, early on heaps of domestic market, which is totally rock solid because it’s not relying on people to see a positive business case in doing it. You know, like it’s really… You know, targets are, are really mandated and people make sure that they are met. Um, and then the incentives are also different as well. Like my understanding is that [00:16:00] there’s a lot of incentives about installation of megawatts, um, and then, you know, the, the operation is like, we’ll figure that out as we go. The volume, the number of manufacturers that are there, they’ve got, you know, like such a great supply chain all there in the same area, so you can move fast and like I, I don’t see anything can get in the way of, you know, continuing to pump out these turbines at that speed. It’ll keep going until, you know, the government basically decides we’ve got, uh, enough wind energy now and then puts the, the brakes on it. And, you know, that’s what we’ve just been through in solar recently. China is, um… You know, they’ve just– they’ve got a big economy and they’ve just got like rock solid resolve to follow through on, on things that they commit to. Um, whether we can, you know, argue about whether it’s a smart strategy or not, but you know that they will follow it, they will execute on, on it. I don’t think anyone would, would say that they won’t. So I think, [00:17:00]can it continue forever? No. But do I think it can continue for another 10 years? Yes. And is that long enough to cause massive problems for any other manufacturer? I think also yes.  Matthew Stead: Hey, Rosie, can I ask you a question? You know, obviously there was some cable was proposed, you know, between Australia and Singapore. Do you see China going in that direction? You know, putting rather than pipes with gas in it, um, pipes with electrons? Uh,  Rosemary Barnes: I don’t see China– I’m actually working on a video at the moment about a global sub-sea grid, and I just interviewed, um, uh, Xlinks, you know, that was originally a project from Morocco to the UK, and then the other one, which is super cool, um, we might have an argument about the plausibility of it, is NATO L, which is just in like early development stages. It’s going to connect the UK to Canada. Um, and yeah, so that’s, um, a few thousand kilometers long. The ocean depth is maximum [00:18:00] three, I think, kilometers, maybe even a tiny bit more than that, um, which is like right on the edge of what is possible. N-none of those projects really actually rely on big technological improvements. Um, they’re possible with today’s technologies. Um, but I don’t see China doing so much of that. I think that one thing that might actually stop that is that, um, when you have big interconnectors like that, I think the engineering part is not the hard, the hard part. I think that the, it’s the politics. I do see them exporting their, um, you know, they’ve got really good ultra high voltage DC technology, but the transmission lines, they have exported a little bit. There’s some projects in Brazil that are Chinese made. There’s one in India. I don’t actually know if that is Chinese made, but you know, like I could really imagine them also rolling out projects in Africa, for example. Um, but beyond that sort of thing, I, I wouldn’t tip China as the country to, you know, develop a global [00:19:00] sub-sea grid. Speaker 6: Do you think the low solar prices have hurt the wind manufacturers in China a little bit? Obviously, there’s a lot of solar panels that are able to be shipped immediately, which is what’s happening right now. But turbines, not so much. It’s a little harder to do. But you, you would think that a lot of these countries and communities would be putting in wind But solar is so cheap right now that, that is what is winning at the moment, and it must be hurting the Chinese wind manufacturers, you would think. Rosemary Barnes: I don’t think they’re really in a competition with each other, um, at the moment. In Australia, I think yes. I think that, um, the, like, roaring success of solar and especially batteries is, um, making wind less appealing to develop. But globally, I think that it’s, you know, it’s a race between, um, fossil fuels and renewables. It’s a race between energy security and continued reliance on, you know, countries that [00:20:00] you don’t really want to rely on for fossil fuels. I think that those are the, the much bigger, um, competition at the moment. It’s a bit short-sighted because, yeah, wind and solar is really easy for the, the part of the, uh, energy transition that we’re doing now, and, uh, if you just don’t build any wind until you reach the limit of solar and batteries, then you’ll find yourself quite far behind. So that’s what we’re really struggling with in Australia and finding, like, what is the right level of government, um, support because people… You know, like in an electricity market like Australia, you’re not supposed to rely on governments, you know, planning out the system and deciding what thing to build, and I think that that has been a real strength of the Australian market that it has, you know, the government has got out of the way. It is hard to see, um, us getting to where we need to go in a orderly fashion without some planning for this, like, lumpy middle part of the energy transition. I don’t know. What do you think, Matt? Is that how you see it in Australia as well?  Matthew Stead: Yeah, I think there’s a place [00:21:00] for everything, and, you know, wind, solar, battery is a perfect match and the right places for the right thing. Rosemary Barnes: It’s really hard because, you know, like, when you look at the system as a whole, you know, like you plan out what, what full energy system is cheaper and better, you know. Is it the, you know, the current fossil fuel system and all of the, you know, annual maintenance and, um, improvements like, um, extensions that need to go along with that to support, you know, things like data centers and population growth, or is it the fully renewable system? And, you know, if you look at the end state, then I don’t think that many studies or maybe any studies come to the conclusion that anything other than renewables is the, the cheaper, better system. But it’s just, it doesn’t mean that every step along the way is cheaper, and so you end up with this, yeah, like this hump in the middle that you’ve gotta, you’ve gotta get over if you wanna get from one to the other, and it’s, um, it’s complicated. Speaker 6: I just listened to a podcast about this half an hour ago, uh, and it [00:22:00] was very contentious. And I won’t get into the details of it, but it was just one or the other. We wanna have all petroleum-based, coal-based generation in the UK, or we want zero emissions. They never got into anywhere in the middle, which is where it’s going to have to be. So why don’t we talk about that? I– It doesn’t… The political atmosphere of the UK is, is a little unstable, as we’ve all read in the newspapers and seen online. Uh, but it, but it’s just causing the both sides to go to extremes. And on the renewable side, some of the arguments that are being made were so outlandish that I could hardly continue to listen to it. Same thing on the gas and coal side. Like, what are we gonna do? The UK is really in a pinch. They’re gonna have to do something, and it all– as Rosemary’s pointed out, doing nothing is real ex- it’s gonna be tremendously expensive too. So there’s, there’s gonna have to be a, a reckoning somehow, but it, it’s all tied to the [00:23:00] economy at the moment. Like most things that happen in a country, decisions are made about what’s happening right now, not what’s gonna happen five years from now.  Yolanda Padron: Right. And to your point, like countries need to protect themselves, right? Like what are you gonna do, bank on world peace?  Speaker 6: That’s a bad bet historically.  Matthew Stead: But, um, how many, how many of those charts have you seen in the last one to years where you’ve got the, the fossil fuel, say the coal generation versus renewable generation? How many of those, um, charts have crossed over in the last few years where, you know, renewables generation is, is higher than coal generation? It’s just, it’s happening all over the world. It’s just happening, and you look at the graphs, it’s just happening.  Speaker 6: It’s less expensive, so that’s why they’re doing it. The decision’s made with the dollar. You know, the financing and the bankers and insurance are all gonna drive that, and it’s not gonna be the decision you, the homeowner, are gonna have a lot of influence on. It’s all gonna be done at a higher level, and it’s gonna be whatever’s cheaper and whatever’s available. Back to Rosemary’s point, [00:24:00] solar is cheap and available, people are gonna do it. Wind is cheap and available, they’re gonna choose it no matter who’s in office, right? I… Yeah, that’s the engineer talking, not the politician.  Matthew Stead: Battery, wind, and solar is only gonna get cheaper. Is, um, is, uh, gas turbines and coal gonna get cheaper? Speaker 6: They can’t. In order to get the efficiency up where they need to, it’s gonna be super expensive, which is what we’re at today. That’s why gas turbines are s- you can’t mass produce them, and that’s why they cost so much money. It’s a great business if you sell a couple a year. You can’t sell thousands of them. There’s just not a way to do that. As wind energy professionals, staying informed is crucial, and let’s face it, difficult. That’s why the Uptime podcast recommends PES Wind magazine. PES Wind offers a diverse range of in-depth articles and expert insights that dive into the most pressing issues facing our energy future. Whether you’re an industry veteran or new to wind, PES Wind has the high-quality content you need. Don’t miss [00:25:00] out. Visit peswind.com today. Over in Sweden, they built all the wind farms, and here at Weather Guard we’ve talked to a number of operators over in Sweden, so has EOLOGIX-PING, uh, and the– So but the wind farms and the customers haven’t really showed up, and researchers in Sweden have analyzed two hundred and forty-four Swedish wind power producers owning more than about thirty-seven hundred turbines covering eighty-five percent of the country’s total wind generation. So it’s a pretty large study. They found that eighty percent were effectively operating at a loss in twenty twenty-four. The total sector losses reached six point three billion Swedish kronor, uh, about six hundred and twenty million euros. The sector’s profit margins fell to a negative fifty-one percent. That’s right, negative fifty-one percent. Uh, and here’s the real paradox. Although wind production actually [00:26:00] rose from thirty-four point two to forty point six terawatt-hours, revenues fell for the first time in at least six years. Uh, the more they produced, the less they earned. And the real culprit is overcapacity. So they have so many turbines up in northern Sweden, uh, that it’s driving the energy prices down, much like Australia. Uh, and the missing link is obviously transmission because it is big demand to the south. It’s just getting the power there. Vattenfall alone lost eight hundred and seventy million euros in its wind business in twenty twenty-four, and one of its subsidiaries curtailed seventeen percent of the potential production because of, uh, shutting the turbines down was less expensive than selling into negative prices, which would make sense. So the price has gotten so low in Sweden that it’s better just to turn the turbine off and, and eat the loss than to generate power at a, at a negative price. This is a common theme [00:27:00] as wind has grown, and solar for the same matter, is that when you have so much of it, the price of electricity will drop. And until you can get that power out to other areas that has high demand It becomes a losing proposition. How does this play out? Will the– Now will countries finally take transmission seriously and start to even out the grid? Is that where we’re going?  Yolanda Padron: I mean, I hope so. The idea of curtailing potential energy isn’t something new, right? It happens here in Texas all the time. It happens in a lot of places all the time, um, just to, to not overflow the grid. And it makes sense, but it doesn’t make sense too much, at least to me, that in the same country you have parts of it where you have an electricity surplus and negative pricing, and other parts of it where you just, you don’t have enough energy for the whole, uh, region, right? So, uh, I really hope they take it a bit more seriously than they, than they currently are.  Matthew Stead: Uh, I think the interesting thing about Sweden is [00:28:00]that they’ve got a lot of hydro as well, and so those two things tie together. Um, you know, much like Australia, we’re building the, like the largest in the Southern Hemisphere, um, hydro scheme, and, um, maybe that’s part of the missing puzzle is the actual, the storage element. So if they had more pumped hydro, you know, they could, um, perhaps store that excess energy and then, then reuse it. But, you know, unless there’s no pipes from the north to the south, you know, that’s not gonna help anyone.  Speaker 6: Hydro is expensive. The more recent news articles I’ve seen about pumped hydro is it’s way less expensive to put in wind or put in solar or put in some batteries than to do pumped hydro projects. It’s complicated. It’s a lot of construction, obviously, and, uh, the pumps and the equipment are not cheap. So, uh, yeah, so although if you do have hydro and it’s currently running, you would leave that alone, but I think some of the newer pumped hydro projects probably won’t happen. Even if they’re on the– have [00:29:00] been planned and, and even started, I think they’re really reevaluating that it’s probably cheaper to do batteries. Matthew Stead: In Australia, in Snowy 2.0, I think the original budget was, was it 3 billion? And now it’s up to 12 to 15 billion.  Rosemary Barnes: Anybody that was working on that would’ve known that the price was very likely to blow out because that particular project has a really long tunnel. The two reservoirs that, like the reservoirs were existing, so you think, okay, that’s good, you save money. But the expensive part of pumped hydro is the tunneling and then, and it’s a very long tunnel. Um, and it’s just so super predictable that when you have a super long tunnel, you one, increase the cost a lot, but two, increase the risk of a massive cost blowout. So I think it’s not a good predictor of, of projects as some other ones that are, that are happening. I think the biggest problem with hydro is that, um, the project lives are so long, like 100 years e- easily, [00:30:00] but that doesn’t mean anything in today’s dollars, y- you know? So it’s like no one can, no company is gonna assign any value to the electricity they’re gonna generate in 100 years time, you know? So it’s, um, it, it’s really hard for it to stack up to, as a project today unless it’s a government doing it. Matthew Stead: But I mean, once Snowy 2.0 is done, it will still be reasonably cost-effective as a long-term storage source.  Rosemary Barnes: Yeah. If it had been made on time, then I think it would’ve, it would’ve been a real enabler for the energy transition for getting heaps of wind and solar. But it wasn’t done on time, and we barely we- storage isn’t our problem right now. We have actually got lots of, of storage. That’s not what’s stopping people from building projects. So, um, I think it is a bit of a shame.  Speaker 6: Back to your point, Rosemary, how old hydro is in terms of electricity generation. I, I went to go look up when Niagara River, Niagara Falls in, in the States first [00:31:00] started producing power, 1895. That’s how long we’ve been using water power in the States to create electricity. Hoover Dam, which also does something very similar, is in the 1930s, 1935, ’36, around that timeframe. So it’s almost been 100 years there too, 90 years. Yeah. It’s, it’s amazing. So you don’t plan for those, those pieces of, uh, infrastructure to run that long, but they do. That wraps up another episode of the Uptime Wind Energy podcast. And if today’s discussion sparked any questions or ideas, we’d love to hear from you. Reach out to us on LinkedIn, and don’t forget to subscribe so you never miss an episode. And if you found value in today’s conversation, please leave us a review. It really helps other wind energy professionals discover the show. For Rosie, Yolanda, and Matthew, I’m Allen Hall, and we’ll see you here next week on the Uptime Wind Energy [00:32:00] podcast.

Matthew Stead recaps WindEurope Madrid and Blades Europe Edinburgh. Plus Suzlon unveils its Blue Sky platform for Europe, Muehlhan consolidates six specialist firms, and Mingyang keeps hunting for a European home. Sign up now for Uptime Tech News, our weekly email update on all things wind technology. This episode is sponsored by Weather Guard Lightning Tech. Learn more about Weather Guard’s StrikeTape Wind Turbine LPS retrofit. Follow the show on Facebook, YouTube, Twitter, Linkedin and visit Weather Guard on the web. And subscribe to Rosemary Barnes’ YouTube channel here. Have a question we can answer on the show? Email us! Speaker: [00:00:00] The Uptime Wind Energy Podcast, brought to you by StrikeTape. Protecting thousands of wind turbines from lightning damage worldwide. Visit striketape.com. And now, your hosts.  Allen Hall 2025: Welcome to the Uptime Wind Energy Podcast. I’m your host, Allen Hall, and I’m here with Matthew Stead, who is back in Australia, but not at home. He’s up in Queensland. Or actually, not even on– in Queensland, technically. He’s on an island off the coast of Queensland. Where are you at, Matthew?  Matthew Stead: Uh, Moreton Island. It’s, uh, like a resort island off, uh, off of Brisbane, so beautiful outside.  Allen Hall 2025: Well, you need a little bit of resort time because you’ve been to two conferences, and you spent a good bit of time in Austria after that. So you were at WindEurope in Madrid, and then following that, you went right over to Scotland for Blades Europe. So I wanna hear your thoughts. We’ll start with, uh, WindEurope and what was going on at that conference. It did sound like there was a pretty [00:01:00] good attendance, and some people that I have talked to about it really en-enjoyed being in Madrid. It’s just  Matthew Stead: a bigger city. Um, first time I’d ever been to Madrid, and, uh, yeah, the show was amazing, actually. I was, I was a bit blown away by, uh, I think the OEMs were back out in force. You know, so like the Vestas, Siemens were, um, really– and Nordexes and so forth were really back out in force, so that was really good to see. Um, the, some of the larger operators had really, really strong presence as well. So you could see that, you know, Iberdrola, Res, um, those sorts of companies were, um, really, you know, putting a big effort in and meeting their customers and, um, really showing, uh, the world who they were. So that was really, um, you know, really good to see. There were so many people seriously. Um, the queues for food at lunch were, were, um, one of the major problems. Um, so, um, yeah, it was really a lot of people, so that was really exciting. Um, and I mean, for me, I was [00:02:00]trying to catch up with, with partners and friends and, yeah, it was, it was jam, jam-packed just meeting people in the industry. Um, probably a few other things. So s- you know, SkySpecs and Aerones had a really strong, um, presence there. So, um, SkySpecs and Aerones were, were doing really well. Um, maybe one of the, um, surprises for me, and I know this has been a topic on a few other previous episodes, was there was a lot of interest in bird and bat detection. I, I, I think there had to be, like, five companies that were, were– had really big setups, and it was a really, really big topic around cameras and so forth. So, um, that was a, a big topic. And, um, then there, there was a really, really strong, you know, supply chain, you know, from, from vessels to cables to, you know, repairs. Allen Hall 2025: What was the ratio of offshore companies to onshore companies? I’m always curious.  Matthew Stead: You’re looking through the, the list. Um- I would, I’m only guessing it [00:03:00] was probably about 40% had an offshore focus of some kind. So it was definitely a strong offshore focus. Um, obviously, you know, a lot of onshore, offshore combined companies. But yeah, definitely the word offshore kept on popping up a lot.  Allen Hall 2025: Because Spain is mostly onshore. Like, um, like 99% onshore, right? I think it’s a couple of small projects going offshore. Does it look like the onshore business is gonna pick up, uh, just in terms of the activity on the floor in Madrid?  Matthew Stead: Uh, yeah. Um, I, I think, you know, like I said, you know, those big operators like the REZAs and the Iberdrolas and, and the OEMs, I, I think it’s just a given that, um, you know, things are buoyant. Um, well, they appear to be definitely very buoyant. Uh, I think we’ve heard, you know, some of the positive, um, financial news from a few of the OEMs recently. So yeah, yeah, it seems like o- onshore is, is maturing further, further, further. And so you went straight  Allen Hall 2025: from Madrid, right, to [00:04:00] Edinburgh, Scotland. That was a change in weather, I would assume. Uh, probably about a 20 degree Celsius difference. 25 down to 15, yes. Whoa. Okay. Yeah, that’s a good bit. Uh, but the Edinburgh conference, that’s the first time that Blades Europe has been to Edinburgh. I, at least I don’t remember them being there before. That tends to be a more technical conference than Wind Europe. Uh, the, the Blades conference is obviously focused on blades, and all the relevant experts in Europe do tend to show up there. What were some of the hot topics at Blades Europe this year? Matthew Stead: Yeah, I think it was, um, an interesting conference. Um, I, I’d been to Blades USA, so I was able to contrast, um, Blades USA a little bit. I think probably the differences here were, yeah, there was definitely some strong, strong, uh, experts there, like you say. Um, you know, Birgit, um, our friend was, was in attendance and a few of her colleagues from Statkraft. Um, I think, and or, uh, actually ORE Catapult, the, the [00:05:00] UK research, um, offshore renewable energy research, um, they did some great presentations. I really, um, they really shared some really good insights. So, um, ORE Catapult were talking about life extension and, um, you know, looking at the, the fatigue on blades and, uh, how they’re, how they’re going to perform and life extension. So some great stuff from ORE Catapult there. Probably another key topic that came up was around, uh, sort of related to life extension, but also recycling. The, there was a really good session on the new IEC standard. Um, um, to, you know, full disclosure, I was actually on the panel. So I, I thought it was a great panel. But, um, the new IEC standard for blade operations and maintenance, um, is really well a-advanced now in its development. Um, very strong risk focus, you know. So depending on the risk then drives your, your blade O&M program. [00:06:00] Um, so that was a, a great talk as well. Uh, and then maybe finally, um, something close to my heart, um, I think the, the, you know, the maturity of CMS companies. There actually, there were five blade CMS companies there, which is probably the biggest turnout I’ve seen around blade CMS, um, ever. And so it was good to see that sort of, um, interest and growth, um, and the need for, for blade CMS. Uh, and, um, obviously the last one, lightning. So lightning always an issue. Lots of discussions around lightning, um, you know, through Greece and a few of the, the, the Balkan go- Balkan states. On the blade recycling front, there’s a  Allen Hall 2025: company in Scotland called ReBlade that is involved in some of the recycling efforts. Did they give a presentation of, of what they’re up to at the moment? Matthew Stead: Uh, yes, I think they did. Um, they’re talking about setting up a, a site in a, a [00:07:00] couple of sites, and I think Inverness was the, the location where they’re, where they’re setting up a site. The, um, the port is supportive, so they’re working through those, those, those challenges. You know, getting a site, getting transport and access to the blades. Um, working out when, when the, when the blades will come to them. You know, the storage of blades. Um, the, the end, end uses for those blades. Getting all that supply chain, um, lined up was, you know, yeah, it was, that was quite thorough and quite, um, yeah, inspiring.  Allen Hall 2025: And on the CMS side, what are operators trying to monitor? ‘Cause usually have something in mind that they’re going after.  Matthew Stead: For better or for worse, there’s still some serial, um, failure modes. Um, and so the industry is looking at very particular, you know, challenges that, um, certain make and model have. Um, so root insert failures was definitely one of those, um, one of those topics. Um, and that was actually one of the, the, the [00:08:00] roundtable discussions at, uh, Blades Europe. Some other, um, monitoring around, you know, lightning and- lightning damage and what’s happening with the LPS. That was also, uh, another big topic for, for monitoring. And then a few other sort of general, more, more general, um, you know, natural frequencies of blades and seeing if the natural frequencies are changing, indicating a change in stiffness, which relates to potential damage. So yeah, there was– it was quite a mix of the types of, um, CMS that was discussed.  Allen Hall 2025: Has the digital twin finally died? Anybody talk about that?  Matthew Stead: There’s actually a current call-out for a new research project in Europe around digital twins. So, um, yeah, one of the larger, one of the larger operators is, is putting, pulling together a team to talk about digital twins, so-  Allen Hall 2025: I, I think this is one of the more difficult things to do, but just because you’re dealing with a variety of blades and blade factories and unique issues that pop up that are…[00:09:00] You, you really can’t model until after they happen. And after they happen, everybody knows about them anyway. So what’s the point of the digital twin if you can’t detect things early? It, it, it is a great concept, but hard to implement.  Matthew Stead: Yeah. And why? Why would you do it? I mean, you, you’re only gonna do it if there’s a benefit, and what is the benefit? So, but I think, uh, actually at Blades Europe, digital twins was not really a topic. And maybe one thing I forgot to say is that the, um, Wind Power Lab did a, a good, um, presentation on carbon blades as well, so.  Allen Hall 2025: The, the carbon blades are, is a very good discussion, just because the trend has been lately to scrap blades and bring new ones on site. And the carbon can be difficult to repair, or it takes a long time to repair, and you just don’t have the manpower or woman power to go out and fix it. So the, the fastest option is to build a new blade. But it does leave a lot of blade waste, which is where the industry is not going. Uh, recyclable blades, which is [00:10:00] in process at the moment, will make that easier, but you just don’t wanna be recycling blades. You like to be able to repair them. Composites are repairable. And it’s, it is so odd that they, they wanna continue on that pathway, but we’ll see. We’ll see. You don’t really learn the lesson until you do it.  Matthew Stead: Um, however, you know, the, the presentation on carbon blades was, um, you know, highlighted a lot of the challenges, but also highlighted some of the positives and the, you know, how they do help. Um, and so there was a lot of support for carbon blades, but there’s a lot of unknowns and, um, and there was a lot of discussion around how do you even test if the LPS is working. Uh, it’s just impossible. So, you know, traditional methods on carbon blades, yeah, it just don’t work. So, um, but there was a lot of support that the carbon does bring benefit. But yeah, I agree with you. There’s a lot of challenges there.  Allen Hall 2025: That’s one of the things we learned years ago back in the late ’80s, early ’90s when we, at least in, in the [00:11:00] States, started building a number of carbon fiber aircraft. And the repair situation and dealing with repairs in, in remote locations became difficult. And you’ve learned how much training it took to keep an industry running, and you’re starting from zero for a lot of places that all he had worked on was aluminum. It, it’s a completely different world. You’re, you’re training tens of thousands of technicians around the world. You weren’t planning to go do that, and now you are. So it just, it adds to the cost.  Matthew Stead: It also ties into the OEM, um, you know, providing, you know, details on how to repair those blades because they’re not, they’re not just a standard item, so-  Allen Hall 2025: No, you, you don’t wanna be grinding into a protrusion if you can avoid it. It- you’re just never gonna get it back into that original form because protrusions are in some part magic. And taking a grinder to them is not gonna… It’s breaking the magic. All the magic will be leaving that protrusion when you do that. Yeah, very [00:12:00]difficult. Delamination and bond line failures in blades are difficult problems to detect early. These hidden issues can cost you millions in repairs and lost energy production. CIC NDT are specialists to detect these critical flaws before they become expensive burdens. Their nondestructive test technology penetrates deep into blade materials to find voids and cracks traditional inspections completely miss. CIC NDT maps every critical defect, delivers actionable reports, and provides support to get your blades back in service. So visit cicndt.com because catching blade problems early will save you millions. Well, as we know, the wind industry has long been dominated by a handful of European and American turbine makers, uh, particularly in the, quote-unquote, “West.” Uh, but that landscape may be [00:13:00] shifting. Suzlon, the Indian turbine giant that nearly collapsed under about a $1.5 billion of debt just a few years ago, is back. The company has unveiled a new turbine platform aimed squarely at Europe, and says it will build its first factory on the continent if it wins enough orders. Vice Chairman Girish Tanti, uh, delivered the announcement at the WindEurope conference in Madrid, where Matthew was Signaling that Suzlon believes its time has come. And since you were there, Matthew, did you hear any news on the floor, any discussion on the show floor about Suzlon entering Europe?  Matthew Stead: Well, actually, yes. So, um, um, there was actually a good, uh, contingent of Suzlon people at, uh, Blades Europe. So, uh, they attended, uh, Wind Europe and then Blades Europe. Um, and I, you know, I was able to have a bit of discussion with them. I think, I think, uh, they were quite optimistic about, um, [00:14:00] you know, moving back or moving into, into Europe in terms of manufacturing. Um, however, there was an element of skepticism. Am I allowed to say that? So they, uh, were, they were not completely, um, convinced that it’s gonna happen, but, uh, they were certainly excited by that. It was definitely a, a clear possibility, but not a given.  Allen Hall 2025: Well, they have a, a new platform called the Blue Sky platform, um, which will have, I think, two turbines here, a 5 megawatt and a 6.3 megawatt, which is squarely aimed at Europe and also the United States, for that matter. And building a factory, though, doesn’t make a lot of sense if the cost driver for a factory in Europe is the European employees, which it tends to be when you hear the discussions about the cost structure, it’s about the employees. I’m not sure why Suzlon would make blades or nacelles in Europe unless they could avoid tariffs or taxation, because India is a very [00:15:00] cost, uh, driven, uh, manufacturing facilities writing country. So why would you wanna go build another expensive factory, probably in the realm of a couple hundred million pounds, uh, if you’re gonna go do it? It probably doesn’t make any sense to do that as well as just selling turbines into Europe. It seems like the easier path.  Matthew Stead: Yeah. And then you’ve got all the, like, the quality control challenges and, you know, you get the cultural challenges. So yeah, to be honest, I don’t qu- I don’t quite understand the logic behind that either. Um, maybe there’s, there’s some things that we don’t know about behind the scenes in terms of tariffs and other, other incentives that we don’t know about.  Allen Hall 2025: Would you see operators taking, uh, a Suzlon presentation and maybe even writing plans for developing with Suzlon turbines in the next couple of years? Is that a, a feeling that Europeans would, would do that, or is Vestas mainly and Siemens Gamesa so strong in Europe that it doesn’t make any sense unless [00:16:00] you’re in sort of the periphery countries of Europe?  Matthew Stead: I mean, my first exposure to a wind turbine was a Suzlon turbine in Australia, and there are many, many, many Suzlon turbines in Australia. And they’re all, they’re all still working. They’re all still reliable. So I mean, from a reputation and reliability and, um Yeah, history point of view, I can’t see why not. I mean, you know, uh, the operators will see that, you know, they’ve proven themselves. They’re not new kids on the block. Um, and so why wouldn’t an operator think about it? Allen Hall 2025: Well,  Matthew Stead: in  Allen Hall 2025: this quarter’s PES Wind magazine, which you can download for free at peswind.com, there is a nice article from Muelhen Wind Services, and that is a growing company. A lot going on there. Our friends at AC883 just joined Muelhen a f- few months ago, and is being part of that conglomerate. And, and we know that obviously building wind farm used to mean [00:17:00]consulting with dozens of contractors, and this is where Mue- Muelhen has really s- stepped into the breach here. So from blade repair at one company and heavy lift cranes at another company, all that had to be managed separately. You’re calling s- different companies all the time. And watching asset managers and site supervisors do this, uh, it is a thankless job. Well, Muelhen’s trying to change that a little bit, uh, and they’re saying that that model no longer works, and I totally agree with them. It’s insane. Uh, but so Muelhen has consolidated six specialist firms under its one brand, and covering everything from port pre-assembly to long-term operations and maintenance across Europe, the US and Canada, uh, and Asia-Pacific. Its CEO, Søren Hoffer, uh, puts it plainly, “The next phase of wind will not be won by turbine size alone. It will be decided by the supply chain’s ability to execute.” Boy, [00:18:00]couldn’t say truer words. Uh, I’ve worked with Muelhen or my company, Weather Guard Lightning Tech, has worked with Muelhen on a couple of projects over the years, and we’ve always had, uh, great service from them, and we have talked to a number of operators that love them, that love using Muelhen. So it’s not a surprise that they’re trying to grow and expand and make life easier for the operators.  Matthew Stead: Sounds like a brilliant move, really. I mean, you know, pulling all these sort of things together is, is a real challenge, isn’t it? I mean, coordinating all these subcontractors, um, getting to turn up at the right time, and yeah, I mean, it just sounds like a brilliant move, and I think that we need more, more, more efficient service companies to service the growing fleet. So the more they can get organized, the better.  Allen Hall 2025: Yeah, the scale matters here, and the expertise matters. As we’ve have a couple hundred thousand turbines that are [00:19:00] operating in the, quote-unquote, “West,” it does make sense to have a larger player that has seen most of those turbines and has some experience with them. It’s always the scary scenario when you’re working with a new company. Have they been on this turbine before? Do they know what they’re doing? Do they know- Lockout tagout. Even simple things like that come to the forefront. And the, the trouble is on some of these smaller companies that are in that business is that, uh, you just don’t get the level of service, you don’t get the level of response, you don’t have the horsepower if something were to, to go wrong on site. They don’t have the cash to, to bring in a second crane or another crew to get this job done. It, it does become scale at some point. And, uh, for a long time in the wind industry, particularly United States, it, it has been a lot of, quote-unquote, “mom-and-pop operations,” and those are slowly getting acquired by the likes of Muehlhan. I, I, I think this is inevitable at some point. Uh, from the asset owner’s, uh, desktop watching this go on, [00:20:00] how do you see, you know, a large operator interfacing with Muehlhan? Are they gonna do just one-stop shopping at this point? They’re, they’re not gonna have three or four different companies to work with, that they’re just gonna lock into, uh, Muehlhan? ‘Cause, uh, that’s what I see.  Matthew Stead: Yeah. I, I think, you know, from the, the WOMA Conference in, in Melbourne, we saw a bit of a, bit of a shift towards, um, outsourcing, at least in Australia Pacific region. And I mean, if, if you’re gonna outsource, um, you’re, you’re probably gonna join up with a, a Muehlhan, um, equivalent. So, you know, that way it just takes some of the risk out of, out of it, so it, it sort of makes sense. Um, the other observation I’ve heard is that, you know, because of the seasonality of blade repairs, it’s really hard to keep hold of, um, blade techs. And so if you’re a global company, you’ve got at least some opportunity of using the ses- seasonality and keeping hold of the good techs and, um, you know, so, you know, you know, summer in, in North, North, uh, America, and then, you know, summer in [00:21:00] Australia. So it, it, it allows these company, allows these companies to keep hold of their good people.  Allen Hall 2025: Yeah. And that, that’s always been the yearly problem, right? That you have a, a crew of a couple good crews in the summertime, and you come back the next summer and it’s a whole different group of people and yeah, that, that, that’s trouble for the industry. Well, a- and it’s good. It’s fi- it’s finally good to see this happening, and I know, uh, we’ve talked about it internally here at Weather Guard of who to work with and who to partner with. We like working with companies that have scale, and I think we’re finally there. So it’s really interesting to see this article from Johan in PES Wind. So if you, if you haven’t read the article, you should go visit peswind.com and take a look. There’s a lot of great content in this quarter’s issue, and y- you don’t wanna miss it. So go to peswind.com today. As wind energy professionals, staying informed is crucial, and let’s face it, difficult. That’s why the Uptime podcast recommends PES Wind magazine. PES Wind offers [00:22:00] a diverse range of in-depth articles and expert insights that dive into the most pressing issues facing our energy future. Whether you’re an industry veteran or new to wind, PES Wind has the high-quality content you need. Don’t miss out. Visit peswind.com today. So when, when the energy prices spike like they’re happening right now, uh, the Iran war being one of the main drivers, and obviously gasoline prices have jumped quite a bit, here’s what happens. The China’s clean energy sector goes to work, and they’re racing to make connections and make sales. As electricity prices jump up, gas prices jump up, everybody wants to try to find a cheaper way to provide energy to their countries or locales. Uh, China’s there to offer it. So it’s solar panels, batteries, EVs, and even wind turbines are, are looking for homes out of China. Uh, for European wind professionals, [00:23:00] the most important part comes from Mingyang, right? So they were unable to get a production facility in Scotland, but they haven’t given up yet. They are still searching for a home somewhere in Europe. And as of today, I don’t think they’ve found it. They’re s- I think they’re still looking for some country to host them. But how long is that gonna go on, Matthew? I, I think with the domination of Vestas and Siemens Gamesa in Europe and Suzlon trying to make an entry, will Mingyang and other Chinese manufacturers eventually find a home?  Matthew Stead: It’s interesting. I think, uh, if you look at the airline industry, you’ve always had premium providers, and you’ve always had low-end providers, and I think there’s always a place for all of them. And so I re- I reckon they’ll find, I think they’ll find their place in, in the market and just, you know, it might just take a while. But they’ve got the strength, haven’t they? They’ve got the product. They’ve got the strength. So it’s just a matter [00:24:00] of time.  Allen Hall 2025: Yeah. I, I, I d- I do think eventually it will happen. But Vestas and, and Siemens Gamesa have done a pretty good job of controlling it, and wind Europe, honestly. Wind Europe has not been a proponent of a Chinese manufacturer in Europe, so that generally will help slow down any business plans they would have But at the same time, there’s a lot of opportunities around the world that’s not necessarily in Europe, right? South America has strong ties with China. They’re– And Chinese companies are, are starting production in China. There’s a lot th- things happening there. You’re gonna see that in Africa and other places. So it doesn’t necessarily have to happen in Europe, which is, I think Europeans and Americans think, “Well, we can’t have China in those locales.” Fine. But it isn’t like China doesn’t have other opportunities to, to sell turbines or solar panels or batteries. There are plenty places on the planet where  Matthew Stead: people that  Allen Hall 2025: need  Matthew Stead: lower cost energy, and they’re gonna find them. Um, I did attend a, a panel [00:25:00] discussion on Türkiye, um, and the growth, and there was a lot of growth in Türkiye around onshore and offshore. And so maybe Mingyang, that might be a, a place, um, for them to, to start, you know, on the doorstep of, of Europe. The stepping stone, so to speak. Stepping country.  Allen Hall 2025: Is there risk in that, uh, uh, if, uh, uh, Mingyang decided to put a plant in Türkiye? Is, does that come with some political aspect? Because I, I, I don’t remember. Türkiye t-tends to play, uh, uh, k- kind of like Switzerland in, in terms of working with different, uh, political systems over time. Yeah.  Matthew Stead: I, I’ve had a bit more to do with a few, a few, um, sort of organizations in Türkiye recently and, um, you know, it’s highly professional, highly, you know, logical, and so I, I can’t see why it’d be a challenge. So I think, yeah, that stepping stone into Europe might be a, a logical way to go. Well, maybe  Allen Hall 2025: we’ll see that in the next [00:26:00] couple of months. I don’t know. There’s gonna be a lot to happen there. There’s so much money being spent in Europe on renewables, wind, solar, battery, all the above, that there’s plenty of opportunity, and every company that has a product that’s gonna be trying to sell it in Europe right now. It’s a smart move. Absolutely.  Matthew Stead: I think the other thing that we’ll probably be talking about a little bit more is EV trucks or, you know, electric trucks.  Allen Hall 2025: You think so?  Matthew Stead: I reckon we’ll be talking more and more about electric trucks.  Allen Hall 2025: Does Europe even have a, a le- a real true EV tractor-trailer, large truck? What do they call… I guess they call it a lorry.  Matthew Stead: I don’t think yet. But that’s why I’m saying I think this is a topic that’s gonna raise itself. Um, I’ve, I’ve seen some numbers recently which says that it’s a bit of a no-brainer to go from diesel to, um, to battery now.  Allen Hall 2025: So is Tesla gonna be the, the winner there just because of their, I don’t even what they call it, the Tesla truck? Is that what they call that now?  Matthew Stead: Not the Cybertruck, the, the truck truck.  Allen Hall 2025: Electric semi-truck. There you go. [00:27:00] Thank you, producer Claire.  Matthew Stead: I think you’ve gotta watch, you know, you’ve gotta watch BYD and a few of the other, the other, um, other companies.  Allen Hall 2025: Do they have something as large as what, uh, Tesla is offering today? Because Tesla is offering a true semi or tractor-trailer  Matthew Stead: I, I, I must admit I’m not a, a huge expert on the topic, but I’m sure Rosemary is.  Allen Hall 2025: She drives the big rigs? Is that what she’s doing?  Matthew Stead: But I think we– Yeah, I think, I think it’s an in-interesting thing to watch because, um, certainly fuel prices in Australia are definitely pushing, um, this idea of, um, electric trucks. Allen Hall 2025: Yeah, diesel prices are really high in the States. I- if they’re high in the States, I can’t even imagine what they are in Europe or Australia. They must be through the roof. So if you have a diesel vehicle, although they run forever and are pretty efficient, the price of fuel is insane right now.  Matthew Stead: And, you know, if you, if you take that a step further into mining, so Twiggy Forest, um, and Fortescue, you know, switching to [00:28:00] electric, uh, trucks and electric mining, yeah, it makes sense. Allen Hall 2025: Does the math work out on that? Uh, obviously Fortescue is taking, uh, really a pretty significant risk in that they’re developing their own electricity generation sites via wind and solar and battery, the whole thing, and they’re converting some of their larger vehicles to electric. Does that hold a big risk, or is this just a financial no-brainer, particularly when diesel prices are so high? Matthew Stead: Yeah, I think it’s a financial no-brainer. Uh, and that’s why partly I think we’ll be talking about trucks because, you know, once the finances make sense, um, there’ll be a faster transition. And I think, you know, Fortescue is not a silly company.  Allen Hall 2025: Fortescue is willing to dabble, right? So they’re willing to, to see where the technology is and spend a little bit of money and possibly it works out, right? I think there’s– you have to take a little bit of risk if you’re in that business because you are spending so much money on fuel. [00:29:00] You can spend a couple million dollars playing in different areas to pick an eventual winner. Obviously, they’re gonna– Well, it’s not obvious at the moment, but it, it seems obvious to us being on the electricity side. Electricity is gonna be the answer. Renewable energy is gonna be the easy way to do it, the lowest cost way to do it. There you go. Go do it. Well, American Clean Power’s event, uh, which is in Houston this year, will be happening June 1st through the 4th at the convention center downtown in Houston. It’s gonna be warm, everybody, so if you’re traveling from a cooler country like Denmark to Houston, bring something cool to wear. It will be warm in June. It, it– Houston is just a very warm place, and it’s quite humid, so it’ll, it’ll be a, a unique environment. However, it does sound like there’s gonna be a, a, an– A number of interesting companies and a lot of people that are attending that event this year, and one of them is gonna be Matthew and EOLOGIX-PING with Weather Guard Lightning Tech will [00:30:00] both be down at the event in a booth and seeing everybody and, and, and meeting a whole bunch of, of, uh, new people that are getting into the industry, which is, to me, is always the fun part. Like, we just meet so many really fun people. Uh, and Matthew, you know, we had a discussion internally about that, like, uh, our, our new, uh, chief commercial officer, Nikki Briggs, has been commenting. We’ve been talking to so many operators around the world, and after every, uh, little meeting briefing that we have, we do a post-briefing, and she goes, “They were so nice.” And I s- yes, Nikki, the wind industry people are fantastic to work with. Like, they’re all focused on doing something positive, and they’re trying to, to do it the best that they can. And there’s a lot of constraints to it, and they’re making a number of hard decisions. But when we all come together at American Clean Power here in the States, hey, we can kinda commiserate and [00:31:00] talk about what’s happening and catch up. And I feel like we need a little bit of catch-up time in this industry, particularly here in the United States.  Matthew Stead: Yeah. Yeah. I, I think, um, I, I definitely agree. And I, I found, you know, previously I used to work in the construction industry and work with engineers and, you know, transport, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And actually, I found that the renewable industry, there’s a lot of really open people, really happy to have a discussion, um, not the big egos, so I completely agree. And, um, I’m thinking back, um, I first met people in the wind industry in, you know, around 2012, 2013, and, you know, I still know a number of those people and really appreciate catching up with them. Um, so actually, Berend van der Pol was probably one of the first, and, uh, Birgit Junker was, um, maybe one of the second, so yeah. And I’m definitely looking forward to ACP.  Allen Hall 2025: If you’re, if you’re down in Houston at American Clean Power, definitely stop by a- and say hi to everybody from [00:32:00]EOLOGIX-PING and Weather Guard Lightning Tech, and hey, learn about all the things that are going on because both companies have new products that’ll, were gonna be announced at the site. Uh, we’re already getting inundated with requests on the Weather Guard side. It’s insane. We’re telling people, like, “Slow down, slow down, slow down. We’ll, we’ll, we’ll talk to you about it when we get to Houston.” But, uh, expect a very attentive audience this year, which is exciting. That wraps up another episode of “The Uptime Wind Energy Podcast.” If today’s discussion sparked any questions or ideas- We’d love to hear from you. Reach out to us on LinkedIn, and don’t forget to subscribe so you never miss an episode. And if you found value in today’s conversation, please leave us a review. It helps other wind energy professionals follow the show. For Matthew, I’m Allen Hall, and we’ll see you here next week on the Uptime Wind Energy [00:33:00] Podcast.

Ik ben een fantastische spits, maar mijn team gaat wel verliezen. Dat is vrij vertaald wat de altijd amusante Michael O'Leary van Ryanair zegt over zijn vliegtuigmaatschappij en de concurrentie. Hij heeft het 'Armageddon'-scenario klaarliggen nu de oorlog in Iran alweer zijn derde maand af dreigt te sluiten. Zelf gaat hij niet kopje onder door die hoge brandstofprijzen (nee hoor), maar er gaan mogelijk wel een paar concurrenten sneuvelen... Iets koopwaardiger, althans volgens de financiële markten: groene energie. Wablief? Ja ja, de woorden 'winst' en 'windmolen' stonden de afgelopen jaren zelden in dezelfde zin. Toch is de index voor groene energie-aandelen met een opmars bezig. Bedrijven als Ørsted en Vestas hebben de wind weer in de rug vanwege de oorlog in Iran én de energieveelvraat die AI heet. Maar betekent dat ook dat deze bedrijven straks veranderen in echte GE Vernova's, of kan een windmolen zich niet meten met een gasturbine? We bespreken de ins & outs. Verder praten we je bij over een monsterdeal die de VS het grootste nutsbedrijf op aarde oplevert, over ASML dat India gaat helpen om een chipindustrie op te bouwen en natuurlijk de stakingen bij Samsung die de hele chipketen hoofdpijn dreigen te geven. Te gast: Justin Blekemolen, analist bij online broker Lynx BNR Beurs is een journalistiek onafhankelijke productie, mede mogelijk gemaakt door Saxo. Over de makers: Jelle Maasbach is presentator van BNR Beurs en freelance financieel journalist. Zijn favoriete aandeel om over te praten is Disney, maar daar lijkt hij de enige in te zijn. Sinds de eerste uitzending van BNR Beurs is 'ie er bij. Maxim van Mil is presentator van BNR Beurs en journalist bij BNR, waar hij zich focust op de financiële markten en ontwikkelingen in de tech-wereld. Je krijgt hem het meest enthousiast als hij kan praten over ASML, of oer-Hollandse bedrijven zoals Ahold of ABN Amro. Jorik Simonides is presentator van BNR Beurs, economieredacteur en verslaggever bij BNR. Hij wordt er vooral blij van als het een keer níet over AI gaat. Milou Brand is presentator van BNR Beurs, freelance podcastmaker en columnist bij het Financieele Dagblad. Jochem Visser is presentator van BNR Beurs, maakt Beursnerd XL en is redacteur bij de podcast Onder Curatoren. Vraag hem naar obscure zaken op financiële markten en hij vertelt je waarom het eigenlijk nóg leuker is dan je al dacht. Over de podcast: Met BNR Beurs ga je altijd voorbereid de nieuwe beursdag in. We praten je in een kleine 25 minuten bij over alle laatste ontwikkelingen op de handelsvloer. We blijven niet alleen bij de AEX of Wall Street, maar vertellen je ook waar nog meer kansen liggen. En we houden het niet bij de cijfers, maar zoeken ook iedere dag voor je naar duiding van scherpe gasten en experts. Of je nu een ervaren belegger bent of net begint met je eerste stappen op de beurs, de podcast biedt waardevolle inzichten voor je beleggingsstrategie. Door de focus op zowel de korte termijn als de lange termijn, helpt BNR Beurs luisteraars om de ruis van de markt te scheiden van de essentie. Van Musk tot Microsoft en van Ahold tot ASML. Wij vertellen je wat beleggers bezighoudt, wie de markten in beweging zet en wat dat betekent voor jouw beleggingsportefeuille.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Ik ben een fantastische spits, maar mijn team gaat wel verliezen. Dat is vrij vertaald wat de altijd amusante Michael O'Leary van Ryanair zegt over zijn vliegtuigmaatschappij en de concurrentie. Hij heeft het 'Armageddon'-scenario klaarliggen nu de oorlog in Iran alweer zijn derde maand af dreigt te sluiten. Zelf gaat hij niet kopje onder door die hoge brandstofprijzen (nee hoor), maar er gaan mogelijk wel een paar concurrenten sneuvelen... Iets koopwaardiger, althans volgens de financiële markten: groene energie. Wablief? Ja ja, de woorden 'winst' en 'windmolen' stonden de afgelopen jaren zelden in dezelfde zin. Toch is de index voor groene energie-aandelen met een opmars bezig. Bedrijven als Ørsted en Vestas hebben de wind weer in de rug vanwege de oorlog in Iran én de energieveelvraat die AI heet. Maar betekent dat ook dat deze bedrijven straks veranderen in echte GE Vernova's, of kan een windmolen zich niet meten met een gasturbine? We bespreken de ins & outs. Verder praten we je bij over een monsterdeal die de VS het grootste nutsbedrijf op aarde oplevert, over ASML dat India gaat helpen om een chipindustrie op te bouwen en natuurlijk de stakingen bij Samsung die de hele chipketen hoofdpijn dreigen te geven. Te gast: Justin Blekemolen, analist bij online broker Lynx BNR Beurs is een journalistiek onafhankelijke productie, mede mogelijk gemaakt door Saxo. Over de makers: Jelle Maasbach is presentator van BNR Beurs en freelance financieel journalist. Zijn favoriete aandeel om over te praten is Disney, maar daar lijkt hij de enige in te zijn. Sinds de eerste uitzending van BNR Beurs is 'ie er bij. Maxim van Mil is presentator van BNR Beurs en journalist bij BNR, waar hij zich focust op de financiële markten en ontwikkelingen in de tech-wereld. Je krijgt hem het meest enthousiast als hij kan praten over ASML, of oer-Hollandse bedrijven zoals Ahold of ABN Amro. Jorik Simonides is presentator van BNR Beurs, economieredacteur en verslaggever bij BNR. Hij wordt er vooral blij van als het een keer níet over AI gaat. Milou Brand is presentator van BNR Beurs, freelance podcastmaker en columnist bij het Financieele Dagblad. Jochem Visser is presentator van BNR Beurs, maakt Beursnerd XL en is redacteur bij de podcast Onder Curatoren. Vraag hem naar obscure zaken op financiële markten en hij vertelt je waarom het eigenlijk nóg leuker is dan je al dacht. Over de podcast: Met BNR Beurs ga je altijd voorbereid de nieuwe beursdag in. We praten je in een kleine 25 minuten bij over alle laatste ontwikkelingen op de handelsvloer. We blijven niet alleen bij de AEX of Wall Street, maar vertellen je ook waar nog meer kansen liggen. En we houden het niet bij de cijfers, maar zoeken ook iedere dag voor je naar duiding van scherpe gasten en experts. Of je nu een ervaren belegger bent of net begint met je eerste stappen op de beurs, de podcast biedt waardevolle inzichten voor je beleggingsstrategie. Door de focus op zowel de korte termijn als de lange termijn, helpt BNR Beurs luisteraars om de ruis van de markt te scheiden van de essentie. Van Musk tot Microsoft en van Ahold tot ASML. Wij vertellen je wat beleggers bezighoudt, wie de markten in beweging zet en wat dat betekent voor jouw beleggingsportefeuille.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

In Chile, organized crime gangs are now stealing solar panels and copper wiring from giant solar farms in coordinated nighttime raids. James explains how Saskatchewan could spend over $520 million a year on coal fuel alone — enough money to build massive amounts of solar and battery storage every single year instead. In Ohio, voters accidentally upheld a renewable energy ban because the ballot wording was nearly impossible to understand. Buy us a coffee Support The Clean Energy Show on Patreon for exciting perks! Plus: China donates 5,000 solar systems to Cuba during ongoing blackouts, the EPA blames Asian pollution for smog in Phoenix and Salt Lake City, Vestas tests red wind turbine blades to reduce bird collisions, Norway hits nearly 99% EV adoption, and Amsterdam bans fossil fuel advertising. Also in the Lightning Round: giant Alaskan tsunamis, Ozempic crushing junk food sales, Meta's Manhattan-sized AI data center, rooftop solar for dairy barns, and why heat pump dryers are secretly amazing. The Lightning Round includes: Norway reaches 98.6% EV market share BYD adds LiDAR to a $10K EV Used EV searches double in Canada Meta plans 10 new gas plants for AI expansion Amsterdam bans meat and fossil fuel ads Heat pump dryers use up to 60% less electricity Ozempic may already be reshaping freight demand The IEA says the fossil fuel era may never recover after the current oil shock Contact Us cleanenergyshow@gmail.com or leave us an online voicemail: http://speakpipe.com/clean Support The Clean Energy Show Join the Clean Club on our Patreon Page to receive perks for supporting the podcast and our planet! Our PayPal Donate Page offers one-time or regular donations. Store Visit The Clean Energy Show Store for T-shirts, hats, and more!. Copyright 2026 Sneeze Media.

Rystad reports offshore turbine prices have jumped 45% since 2020, plus data centers squeeze US grids, Fortescue chases real zero by 2030, and GE Vernova battles Vineyard Wind in court. Sign up now for Uptime Tech News, our weekly newsletter on all things wind technology. This episode is sponsored by Weather Guard Lightning Tech. Learn more about Weather Guard’s StrikeTape Wind Turbine LPS retrofit. Follow the show on YouTube, Linkedin and visit Weather Guard on the web. And subscribe to Rosemary’s “Engineering with Rosie” YouTube channel here. Have a question we can answer on the show? Email us! The Uptime Wind Energy Podcast, brought to you by StrikeTape, protecting thousands of wind turbines from lightning damage worldwide. Visit striketape.com. And now, your hosts.  Allen Hall 2025: Welcome to the Uptime Wind Energy Podcast. I’m your host, Allen Hall, and I’m here with Rosemary Barnes, who’s been busy in Australia up in Sydney at a energy conference. Rosemary, what happened this past week?  Rosemary Barnes: Oh, yeah. I’ve been up in Sydney for the Smart Energy Conference and Exhibition. It’s a big… I don’t know if it’s the biggest. I think they get about 12,000 people or something through the doors. So yeah, it’s, it’s one of the big, maybe the biggest, um, energy conference in Australia. It’s really focused on distributed energy households. So in the past, it was, like, nearly all solar, um, like rooftop solar. There used to be lots of installers that were there and, yeah, there’s heaps of solar [00:01:00] panels around in the exhibition hall. And over the last few years it’s been a mix of batteries and solar, and then now this year it was basically 99% batteries, 1% EV chargers, and almost not a solar panel to be seen. I didn’t actually spend that much time in the exhibition this year. I mostly was, um, attending sessions. Andrew Forrest from Fortescue headlined, and that was really good. I haven’t seen him speak live before. Y- you know, he, he told about all the, like, good plans that Fortescue’s doing to get to real zero by 2030. So he’s on a real rampage at the moment to try and get rid of the diesel rebate that we pay at the moment. We pay diesel users a, a, yeah, a fuel, fuel rebate. It was just cool to hear about y- you know, all of Fortescue’s plans, why they’ve got this big green grid that they’re building out in the Pilbara. Um, I really liked when he said, you know, it’s not, it’s not magic, it’s, um, it’s just, what did he say? Like, maths, physics, engineering, and [00:02:00]economics, and a bit of courageous leadership. That’s what you need to make a green, a green electricity grid. So I really like that the, you know, engineering was mentioned, was mentioned there. I did actually get the chance to ask him a question, too. Wanted to know, um, you know, like, Fortescue is, is really one of the most interesting things about the company is that they are using brand-new technologies or even not quite there yet technologies. I asked, uh, Andrew Forrest, I asked him, you know, like, how you make these bold, bold decisions, does it ever, you know, worry you that it’s not gonna work out? And I was assuming he would say, “It doesn’t worry me,” um, because, you know, he has that kind of brash, confident personality. So I, you know, my follow-up was, what, what steps do you take so that you aren’t worried by it? And he said it does worry him, and he s- stays awake every night worrying, worrying about if these technologies aren’t going to work. And that, uh, basically they try and have a really, really solid plan B that isn’t a [00:03:00] brand-new technology. So, um, you can, you know, infer from that, that if the– I mean, first of all, he said, “We don’t invest in the technology until they have demons- demonstrated with a good prototype that it’s likely to work.” Um, but I guess that, you know, assuming that they’ve ran into problems in the rollout of all of these Naberebo towers, that, um, they have a backup of some conventional towers.  Speaker 2: Yeah, uh, the, the Fortescue people, when we talked to them about, pfoof, probably six months ago, maybe a little bit longer, we were helping to build a farm out in Western Australia. It was a small team, much smaller than anything you would see in the US, and it does sort of align with the Australian approach to it, is that you don’t need a massive team of people to do these projects. You just need to know what you’re doing, and that was really remarkable. So e- I’m not surprised that Fortescue is continuing on in, in different aspects. It does seem like they’re pretty bold about their engineering approach and taking on massive projects that otherwise wouldn’t be [00:04:00] done and-  Rosemary Barnes: It, it’s also really cool to hear, uh, Andrew Forrest or anyone from Fortescue talk because they’re talking about things that they’ve done. You know, like we have so much when you’re at these, uh, events and, you know, everyone’s doing these inspiring talks, it’s always about, “Oh, this is the possibility for the future.” But Fortescue has actually, has actually done it. Yeah, there was a lot of, like, actual progress discussed at this conference. It wasn’t, “This is what we could do if we all joined hands and sang Kumbaya.” It wasn’t like that, you know? It’s like, this is what’s happening when the engineering is there, the economics are there, and the government isn’t standing in the way. Um, y- you know, you can make a lot of, a lot of progress. And you know what? Like now we’ve got so much distributed energy in Australia. It’s the rooftop solar that we’ve been building for, you know, 20 years by now. Um, and it’s the, the batteries especially. Like it is a- starting to have a noticeable impact on electricity prices, and co- coal and gas are both reducing in the grid. I think the last quarter of gas use in Australia was the lowest it’s [00:05:00] been since 1999. Like, um, yeah, so it’s, yeah, it’s, it, it’s dropping, you know? And so I think that that’s a really unique story for Australia is that households can actually really change the dial.  Speaker 2: Well, can I ask you about that? Because the data center issue is popping up again in the United States, and one of the things about data centers is they feel like you, you’re gonna need a good amount of batteries to support if the grid hops on or turns off, that they wanna be able to support this data center, so having a buffer and batteries would make a lot of sense. However, there’s not a lot of battery storage in the US at the minute versus a place like Australia where there’s a lot of it. Doesn’t it make a lot of sense to start putting data centers in Australia? I still don’t understand Why that hasn’t been done? Because electricity prices are cheaper, the land is available, the infrastructure’s there. It’s going [00:06:00] to be, you would think, easier to build in Australia than it would be in the United States. What’s the dilemma there?  Rosemary Barnes: I think certainly there are plenty of plans to build big data centers in Australia. Um, and now I’m gonna go, like, move a little bit outside my expertise, but I think that one of the issues is that at the moment, a lot of the data centers need to be quite close to where the work is happening. So I mean, you’re always gonna need data centers close to any big city where people are, are using the internet. Um, but aside from that, you know, like, the tech sector in the US is much bigger, so the people actually developing, um, you know, training, um, uh, yeah, training AI models, um, are more likely to be sitting in the US and, you know, need a large amount… Not all of their compute needs to happen nearby, but a fair chunk of it. And so I think that that is one reason why so far that’s where it is. Um, but it also doesn’t mean… I mean, there’s [00:07:00] plenty of smart, um smart computer types in Australia as well as the US, so you could start to see more companies moving, um, moving to where electricity is cheap. I think that– And grid connections are fast.  Speaker 2: The one thing you notice about using any of the AI platforms today is, like, there’s a built-in delay. Unlike when you’re on Amazon or any other s- active site, when you click, you want something to happen immediately. With AI, they, they build in a little wait process, which means you can have a data center anywhere, because you’re not expecting an instantaneous response from it. That means, in a sense, they’re setting it up to be a global industry. There is more of a delay now than there was a month ago. And I assume that has to do with usage, and they’re trying to manage all the data usage, right? So electricity is one of the limitations in the United States. That’s evident right now. The amount of data centers is a problem, so they’re trying to spread out the usage, and they are definitely… At least Anthropic is slowing it down. [00:08:00] I’d imagine all the other ones are doing the same thing. So it does open up the world to cheaper electricity.  Rosemary Barnes: There’s heaps of really interesting work happening in trying to get, um, AI and data centers to be better grid citizens, not probably primarily out of the goodness of their heart, but because of two things. One, grid connections are really slow, and so there’s a strong incentive that you can save, in some places, years off your development time if you can just bring in enough batteries, enough smart tech to make sure that you’re never going to, um, you know, add to peak, peak load in the grid, then you can- You know, change how things go. It’s also a matter of, like, social license as well, because at the moment it’s probably not too bad. People don’t realize too much. But if people’s electricity prices start going up because, you know, grid had to be built out because of da- data centers, they’re gonna start getting pissed as soon as they realize what that is. So I think [00:09:00] that, um, you know, these big companies, what do they call them? Hyperscalers. I think that they’re aware that that is gonna come and that that is a really strong incentive to do the right thing before they are made to do the right thing. Because, you know, like, if people got really upset then, um, you could easily have the rug pulled out from underneath a project that you thought was all set to go ahead, you know, could very easily be delayed indefinitely. I mean, we’ve definitely seen in the US that-  Speaker 2: Right. In 30 states in the US have already put prohibitions or limitations on data centers. That means there’s only 20 states left. Alaska is probably not a prime choice, Hawaii is not either, so you even have fewer. It does seem odd that when these limitations pop up that the discussion doesn’t move to other countries. Australia being an easy one, because electricity there is practically free. It seems like a smart move, but they haven’t made it yet.  Rosemary Barnes: Yeah, I mean, it’s not, it’s not [00:10:00] practically free in Australia yet, but I think that the, um, horizon, um, like the, you know, the outlook is it’s, it’s getting cheap. We… And we are finally seeing wholesale prices actually start to come down. But there’s this really awkward middle period though, you know, like, because, um, at the moment we’ve still got all of the… nearly all of the coal generation there, nearly all of the gas generation is there, and you need to have it there until you build out the other stuff. But it’s like prices drop and drop and drop when you’ve got this oversupply problem. But you’re gonna have the oversupply problem until you’ve got enough to start turning off, you know, gigawatt, two gigawatt, um, thermal generators. So it is a really weird middle, um, mid- mid-transition, I think is the term for it. You need planning. You know, you need… You actually do need… At some point you need a plan, and you need to execute it and expect that, like, every step you take is not gonna be better. Y- you know, like [00:11:00] some steps you’re gonna take that are gonna make it, um, economically worse for the short term. But, you know, like, if you’ve got a mountain range in between you and your destination, then yeah, like it’s, it’s really hard going for a while. But you’ve gotta climb that mountain if you wanna get to the other side and, um, you, and you, you can’t do that without a plan. Speaker 2: Well, what other place on the planet has or will have shortly unused gigawatts of old generation? I don’t think I know of one. It, it’s gonna be Australia So th-those gigawatt plants that were thermal plants that won’t be needed ’cause the price of electricity is so low, it does seem like a smart person would put a data center right next door to it. Rosemary Barnes: No, but we wanna turn ’em off. I  Speaker 2: don’t think you’re gonna be able to, Rosemary. I’m just saying, the world needs, uh, AI and it’s coming.  Rosemary Barnes: We’ll see. I think that, um, you know, I did get quite energized by the event, the, um, SSE event that I was at this week because it’s like there are a few things that [00:12:00] Australia, um, you know, really has, like, an opportunity to be world leaders in. And when you get to be the leader, then it means that the technologies that you invent to solve the problems that, you know, the early adopters have, you have the headstart on that. And, you know, as other countries follow in your footsteps, you have the opportunity to lead, lead those technologies.  Speaker 2: As wind energy professionals, staying informed is crucial, and let’s face it, difficult. That’s why “The Uptime Podcast” recommends PES Wind Magazine. PES Wind offers a diverse range of in-depth articles and expert insights that dive into the most pressing issues facing our energy future. Whether you’re an industry veteran or new to wind, PES Wind has the high-quality content you need. Don’t miss out. Visit peswind.com today. So if you want to build an offshore wind farm in Europe right now, you had better be ready to pay. A new analysis from Rystad Energy shows that the turbine selling prices have jumped between 40% and 45% [00:13:00] since 2020. And here’s the thing, manufacturing costs only went up about 20% to 25% over the same period. The difference is pure pricing power. And with GE Vernova out of the new offshore order book and only Siemens Gamesa and Vestas left to supply Western markets, developers are facing a seller’s market in the most critical of components. Nacelles and blades are where the bottleneck hits hardest, and there is no quick fix in sight. So Rosemary, Siemens Gamesa and Vestas are leveraging the, the lack of com- competition, particularly from China at the moment, to gather market share and to raise prices, which I think everybody would agree if you’re on the engineering side of wind turbines, the prices needed to come up because there’s some work that needs to be done, and the engineering side has been pretty thin. To make these turbines more resilient, [00:14:00] you’re gonna need more engineering, it can be a little bit more on the manufacturing side. That takes money So prices had to come up  Rosemary Barnes: Yeah, I mean, I, I, I agree. It’s definitely n- not the case that everyone would agree. Anybody who has a spreadsheet and they’re trying to get the number, number right so that they can develop a new project is gonna say that it’s a bad thing, and it will also probably slow down development a little bit. Although, I guess if there was a supply constraint, then that was already a natural, um, handbrake, so maybe there’s no difference. But I do think that, um, you know, and I’ve said it a lot of times, like, you know, wind power reduced, it had a really steep cost reduction curve through the 20-teens, and I think that it was just artificial. You know, like it was driven by competition rather than true cost reductions in the technology. I think we undershot the price level that it needed to go for, and there just wasn’t enough money to do proper engineering, and, you know, w- we see that. Y- you know, you and I work in O&M, and we deal ev- every day with, with things where it’s like how did, [00:15:00] uh, how, how did they think that this technology was ready when they went and sold thousands of turbines with it? And I know that the answer is not that, um, engineers were lazy or stupid or just didn’t s- see the problems coming up. It was just too, too fast a pace of technology, um, rollout, like new technologies combined with just relentless focus on, on cost. You know, like all of my projects, it’s just like you just have to reduce cost and reduce it and reduce it and reduce it and, you know, to the point where you’re making changes that you don’t have time to fully check. Um, and, you know, then you have quality problems in the field.  Speaker 2: What’s the effect of an Indian manufacturing company in Europe on the offshore marketplace? If like an Adani or one of the other, Suzlon, one of the, one of the big manufacturers in India decides to make offshore wind turbines at scale, [00:16:00] wouldn’t that dramatically shift the marketplace in Europe? Rosemary Barnes: Yeah, I guess if you’ve got a new player, it’s always gonna shift things a bit. I don’t think it matters specifically that it’s Indian. Um, but a new player is gonna wanna be making sales and probably, you know, setting their price at the point that, that they need to, to, um, get those sales, maybe not initially worried so much about profits. If we were talking about Chinese manufacturers in Europe, and we have in the past, if we’re talking about that, then I think that that is a bit more relevant which, which country it is because China, you know, has just like essentially infinite money to put behind it and can keep on going long enough. You know, like they don’t need to make a, a profit every single year or every single five-year period even. They can think longer term. I, I, as far as I know, India is not quite the same as that, so I would expect it to be a bit more short-lived, but that’s always the risk that, you know, someone comes in and [00:17:00] undercuts, um, undercuts for long enough that it- causes the local local, uh, manufacturers to not be able to compete and shut down  Speaker 2: Well, just knowing some of the operators that were doing offshore wind projects and their desire to bring in a alternative to keep prices to the level that they could accept, with Mingyang being shut out at the minute, they’re gonna have to look somewhere else. So I think the only place they can find an alternative lower price competitor is gonna be India. Although the turbines aren’t at scale yet, I, I think you’ll see somebody make noise about it in the next six months on the operations side.  Rosemary Barnes: I think the European manufacturer is a probably better place to just scale up. Speaker 2: Well, let’s talk about GE Vernova for a minute, because the legal fight over America’s first large off-scale wind farm just got more complicated because Vineyard Wind reached commercial operations on April 24th, about a week or [00:18:00] two ago, and activated its purchase power agreement. Well, uh, now GE Vernova is using those very milestones against Vineyard Wind in court. GE Vernova filed an emergency motion arguing that the activation of those contracts undermines Vineyard Wind’s claims of irreparable harm. But Vineyard Wind’s attorney says the project is generating at less than half of its 806 megawatts capacity, and GE Vernova’s work is still needed to get it there. The next court hearing is set for this week. This little battle continues, and it’s– Although it seems fairly quiet, you don’t hear a lot of news reports about it in, uh, particularly the mainstream press, not too much about it, it– this has huge ramifications because as we talked about offshore wind over in Europe, if, if GE is truly getting out, and particularly if they’re in a fight with one of their largest purchasers of turbines, it’s gonna [00:19:00] disincentivize Europeans from even considering GE. In my opinion, I don’t know how you would think that GE would be one of the options. Although you would like to have three competitors bidding on every project in Europe, I think GE’s taken itself out of the marketplace because of this, this lawsuit.  Rosemary Barnes: Mm. You know what it reminds me of? It, um, it reminds me of the Justin Baldoni versus Blake Lively lawsuit that’s ongoing at the moment, where it’s just, like, mutually assured destruction. Speaker 2: But at least they settled, Rosemary. They’re, they’re not fighting anymore.  Rosemary Barnes: They settled, but they didn’t settle all aspects of it.  Speaker 2: The only reason I know about that is because you keep mentioning it. So when I see it pop up, I would normally just let it go. But I figured Rosemary’s focused on this, I should probably at least dabble in it briefly. That wraps up another episode of the Uptime Wind Energy podcast. If today’s discussion sparked any questions or ideas, we’d love to hear from you Reach out to us [00:20:00] on LinkedIn, and don’t forget to subscribe so you never miss an episode. And if you found value in today’s conversation, please leave us a review. It helps other wind energy professionals follow the show. For Rosie, I’m Allen Hall, and we’ll see you next week on the Uptime Wind Energy Podcast.

Allen covers the Pentagon stalling 165 US wind projects on private land, New York stepping in to defend Sunrise Wind, New Mexico approving a 212 MW wind farm, Octopus Energy’s €584M European buying spree, and Europe’s tightening offshore turbine market. Sign up now for Uptime Tech News, our weekly newsletter on all things wind technology. This episode is sponsored by Weather Guard Lightning Tech. Learn more about Weather Guard’s StrikeTape Wind Turbine LPS retrofit. Follow the show on YouTube, Linkedin and visit Weather Guard on the web. And subscribe to Rosemary’s “Engineering with Rosie” YouTube channel here. Have a question we can answer on the show? Email us! Good morning, everyone. Here is a number for you. One hundred and sixty-five. That is how many onshore wind projects the Pentagon is now holding up across the United States. One hundred and sixty-five projects… on private land. Thirty gigawatts of generating capacity… frozen. The American Clean Power Association says the delays began last August. Canceled meetings. Applications no longer being processed. Then in April… letters went out. The Pentagon said it was reviewing how it evaluates the national security impact of energy projects. That review has no deadline. This is the same justification used against offshore wind… the one courts have already struck down. And the administration has already paid nearly two billion dollars in taxpayer money to buy out offshore leases… paying developers not to build. Thirty gigawatts… enough to power millions of American homes… sitting in a stack of unprocessed paperwork. But here is the thing about wind. It does not wait for permission. In a federal courtroom in Washington… New York State just stepped up to fight. Attorney General Letitia James filed a motion to intervene on behalf of Ørsted’s Sunrise Wind project. A Rhode Island nonprofit called Green Oceans sued the Bureau of Ocean Energy Management back in March… trying to overturn the project’s federal permits. New York is not having it. Sunrise Wind is a nine hundred and twenty-four megawatt project. Already under construction. Expected online next year. NYSERDA says the project carries eight hundred and seventy-five million dollars in economic benefits for the state… including nearly one hundred and seventy million dollars for the Town of Brookhaven alone. If it gets canceled… New York says those benefits vanish… tax credits expire… and replacement power would cost ratepayers far more. So the state is putting its name on the line… in open court. Meanwhile… out in New Mexico… a different kind of wind story. Ten thousand acres of state land in Torrance County just got approved for a new wind farm. Two hundred and twelve megawatts. Enough to power sixty thousand homes. It will become the second-largest wind farm on state land. And it is projected to send nearly ninety-nine million dollars to New Mexico public schools over the life of the lease. Now… across the Atlantic. Britain’s Octopus Energy just went on a shopping spree. Five hundred and eighty-four million euros… for seventeen onshore wind farms. Three hundred and twenty-one megawatts spread across France, Germany, and Poland. Ten farms in France. Four in Germany. Three in Poland. Combined… enough power for a quarter million European homes. Octopus now manages sixty-seven onshore wind farms across Europe. Zoisa North-Bond, Octopus Energy Generation’s CEO, said Europe has exceptional wind resources… but needs to move faster. Faster. There is that word again. And then there is the supply side of the equation. Rystad Energy reports that Europe’s offshore wind market is running into a structural supply constraint. With GE Vernova having paused new offshore wind orders… the Western turbine market is now essentially a two-player game. Siemens Gamesa and Vestas. Turbine selling prices are up forty to forty-five percent since twenty twenty. Manufacturing costs? Up only twenty to twenty-five percent. The OEMs are recovering their margins… and developers are absorbing the difference. That is the new reality for European offshore wind. So let us step back. In America… the federal government blocks thirty gigawatts of wind on private land. New York goes to court to protect a project already under construction. New Mexico approves a wind farm that will fund schools for a generation. In Europe… a British company spends more than half a billion euros on wind farms in three countries. And OEMs finally have the pricing power they have been chasing for years. The push… and the pull. Washington pulls back. But everywhere else… the industry pushes forward. And that’s the state of the wind industry for the 11th of May 2026. Join us for the Uptime Wind Energy Podcast tomorrow.

Søren Kellenberger, CEO of CNC Onsite, joins to discuss uptower yaw gear repairs, flat tower flanges, and replacing 1,000 blade root bushings across 26 turbines. Sign up now for Uptime Tech News, our weekly newsletter on all things wind technology. This episode is sponsored by Weather Guard Lightning Tech. Learn more about Weather Guard’s StrikeTape Wind Turbine LPS retrofit. Follow the show on YouTube, Linkedin and visit Weather Guard on the web. And subscribe to Rosemary’s “Engineering with Rosie” YouTube channel here. Have a question we can answer on the show? Email us! Allen Hall 2025: Soren, welcome back to the podcast.  Søren Kellenberger: Thank you, Allen, and, uh, nice doing it, uh, face-to-face- Yes, it’s great … and not as a team, uh, call. Right. That’s  Allen Hall 2025: true. Yeah. You’ve been doing a good bit of traveling, and you’re the new head of CNC Onsite.  Søren Kellenberger: I am, yes.  Allen Hall 2025: So congratulations on that.  Søren Kellenberger: Thank you very much.  Allen Hall 2025: And all the exciting new things that CNC Onsite [00:01:00] is doing, plus all the things you have developed and are now out in the field implementing, the, the list goes on and on and on. I’m alwa- every time I talk to you, “Oh, we got a new-” Yeah … “machine to do something uptower.” So it’s all uptower, which is the, the beauty of CNC Onsite. You’re thinking about the operator and the cost to pull the blades off and do lifting the cell off and all those things. If we can do it uptower, we can save 30, 40, 50% of the cost of a repair. Søren Kellenberger: Yeah.  Allen Hall 2025: That’s where CNC Onsite is just really killing it. You guys are doing great. Thank  Søren Kellenberger: you. Of course, we like what we do, but, uh, thank you.  Allen Hall 2025: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. No, it’s good, it’s good. And, and so w- let’s talk about the things that I know about, and we’ll start there, and then we’ll go to all the new things you’re doing. So the one that I see a lot of operators asking about is yaw tooth. Yeah.  Søren Kellenberger: Uh,  Allen Hall 2025: deformations, broken teeth on the yaw gear. That’s a big problem. And when I talk to [00:02:00] technicians, and I have them texting me about this, like, “Oh, well, I just weld on the gear back on, weld the tooth back on.” That’s a short-term solution. That’s not gonna be long-term. The long-term solution is the CNC Onsite. Can you explain what you do to permanently fix these yaw gear problems?  Søren Kellenberger: Yeah. So what we do is actually we start by getting information about the, uh, original yaw ring, so the dimension of the teeth, and we get some load data. And, uh, then we start designing a replacement segment. Uh, so what we ac- the process is actually that we bring a CNC controlled machine uptower, mount it on the yaw ring, and then we mill away that worn area, uh, creating a small pocket. And then those, uh, segments that we have designed, they are prefabricated. We bring them up and mount them in, in that, uh, pocket and bring the- The yaw ring back to where it’s, you can say, original design, uh, [00:03:00] that way. Yeah  Allen Hall 2025: It’s better than the original design, ’cause you’re actually putting in better teeth than the, the manufacturer did originally.  Søren Kellenberger: True. Yeah, yeah.  Allen Hall 2025: So that happens, so you’re, you’re machining out those old teeth, broken teeth, putting the new set of teeth in th- and that all bolts in, and that’s it. That’s it. But the, the difficulty is getting the machinery uptower to do that. That’s where a lot of your, your technology comes from, is getting this very accurate, uh, well-defined machine uptower and doing very controlled grinding and milling. Yes. So can you explain what that system looks like? If I’m gonna grind off those yaw, broken yaw teeth, how big is that kit? Søren Kellenberger: It… Obviously, it depends a little bit on the turbine size. Sure, okay. Yeah. So, uh, it, so the, the newer five, six, uh, 10 megawatt turbines have larger teeth, so yeah, there you need a, a larger machine.  Allen Hall 2025: Okay.  Søren Kellenberger: But let’s say for, uh, Vestas three megawatt, the, the [00:04:00] complete machine weighs about 250 kilos. That’s it? So yeah. So it, it comes up in smaller components. We just use, uh, the, the internal crane in, in the nacelle, and, uh, then we can lift the components to the yaw ring, assemble the machine, and then we are basically good to go. So it take, takes less than a day to get everything up and, uh, get set and be ready to, to machine. Allen Hall 2025: So if you wanna fix a yaw gear problem, how long does it take from start to finish to get that done?  Søren Kellenberger: It typically, it takes one day to get everything up and get ready, and then per six teeth, which is a typical segment, it takes about a day to machine that. Okay. So, uh, let’s say you have, uh, somewhere between 10 and 15 teeth, it’s, uh, two to three segments. So we do that in a week. Um-  Allen Hall 2025: Wow … and- ‘Cause the alternative is call a crane, have them lifting the cell off.  Søren Kellenberger: Yeah.  Allen Hall 2025: Take the yaw gear off, put a yaw gear on, if you can find a yaw gear. Yes. Put the nacelle back on. [00:05:00] Well, and I guess obviously the rotors are coming down too, so- Yeah. You’re talking about- Yes hundreds of thousands of dollars in downtime. Yeah. It’s a big ordeal. The CNC Onsite method is so much easier.  Søren Kellenberger: We will just put our equipment in the back of our truck- … and then, uh, we’ll, we are ready to mobilize in a few days. So yeah, we can significantly, uh, bring down the downtime and, and as you said, the crane cost is of course extremely high. And then you can add all the project management. You know, con- do I actually have my access roads, uh, still available? Right. Is the crane pad intact? And all of that stuff you need to organize. You can just forget about that and, uh- And  Allen Hall 2025: get it done …  Søren Kellenberger: get it done. Yeah.  Allen Hall 2025: Yeah. There’s, there’s a lot of owners, we, everybody knows who the machines are that have the, the, the yaw tooth problem. Søren Kellenberger: Yeah.  Allen Hall 2025: So if you’re one of those owner operators, you better get ahold of CNC Onsite. Now, flanges on tower sections. It’s become a, a really critical issue. You hear a lot of, of [00:06:00] operators, OEMs talking about, “I’m putting together these tower sections and those flanges don’t really meet up quite right.”  Søren Kellenberger: Yep. Allen Hall 2025: “I’m creating uneven torque patterns, bolt pat- my bolt tightening is not quite right.”  Søren Kellenberger: Yeah.  Allen Hall 2025: And it never really seats right, so you have this mechanical, built-in mechanical problem. CNC Onsite is now fixing that so those flanges are actually really flat. Really flat, yes. ‘Cause that’s what you need.  Søren Kellenberger: Yeah. Allen Hall 2025: Yeah. They’re highly loaded.  Søren Kellenberger: If, if you want, uh… If you want your joints to be, uh, basically maintenance free, uh, we can, uh, achieve that with machining the flanges. And then, of course, you need to be in control with your bolt tightening process. Sure. But if you do those two things, you can have maintenance free bolted connections, and there’s so much money to be saved in the operations. Um, and of course, when you have these bolts that end up fatiguing, some of them don’t get caught in time and you end up ha- having a catastrophic failure on the turbine. Uh- We’ve [00:07:00] seen that … because you have that zipper effect. Once a bolt starts breaking, the neighboring ones take that extra load and it accelerates really quickly. Uh, yeah. Sure does.  Allen Hall 2025: Yeah. It’s a very serious situation, but it starts with this very simple solution which is just make the flange flat.  Søren Kellenberger: Yeah. But I think it’s some… a part of the issue is that those buying the towers aren’t necessarily responsible for the operational cost of maintaining that bolted connection. So they might save a little bit of money when they buy the tower sections with rougher tolerances, but you will spend the money 10 times in the operations. Uh, and, and that’s, I think that’s where some of the operations, uh, re- the, the, those responsible for operational costs should, uh, get a little bit more CapEx spend, uh- Oh, sure. Yeah. And, and then, uh, actually save a lot of money and, and reduce risk. Uh, it’s a huge, huge risk  Allen Hall 2025: It’s, it’s one of those lessons learned. You [00:08:00] don’t know that they should be flat. You shouldn’t know… You don’t know your flanges should be flat until you experience the problems, and then you want all your flanges flat from here on out. Søren Kellenberger: Yeah.  Allen Hall 2025: But there’s only one way to do that really, and that’s to call CNC Onsite to come in and to make them flat.  Søren Kellenberger: Yeah.  Allen Hall 2025: Because it’s a difficult thing to do. You really need to have the machining prowess and the tight tolerances that CNC Onsite’s gonna deliver in a tool that can actually be adapted to that tower ring and make those surfaces flat. It’s complicated. Exactly.  Søren Kellenberger: It is. Uh, but that is what we do every day, so, uh- Yes, I’ve noticed … yeah, so  Allen Hall 2025: so- You take on those challenges  Søren Kellenberger: So we are optimizing our machines to be not only fit for one-offs, but actually to go into a manufacturing, uh, process. So we have op- optimized our machines a lot with, uh, automatic alignment and, uh, stuff like that to, to really make that process, uh, easier. Because it has been considered that when you had to machine a flange, you weren’t in [00:09:00] control with your production, uh, processes. But I think that is, um, a bit of a misinterpretation. It’s, it’s a little bit like saying when I have a casted component, I cannot get a bearing fit, uh, in my cast process. That’s not because your cast process is wrong, there’s just some limitations to what you can do. Sure. And it’s basically the same here. Yes. And, and if you apply that con- uh, planned machining, you can gain some real benefits, uh, later on and the cost will, of course, drop dra- dramatically if you plan it, rather than call for one, uh, every time you have one that is out of tolerances and, and you can even narrow those tolerances down and get the benefits from maintenance-free bowler connections. Allen Hall 2025: Right.  Søren Kellenberger: Uh-  Allen Hall 2025: Right, ’cause you’re gonna pay for it for the next 20, 30 years. Yeah. Yeah. That’s absolutely right. Now, you’re getting involved in some of the safety aspects of operating a turbine. Uh, some of the pins and the lockouts on the low-speed gearboxes get a little worn over time, so the hole [00:10:00] you put the pin in gets worn. There’s a lot of loads on that and- Yeah … it starts to oblong out and eventually, if you’re trying to work on that gearbox, you’re trying to keep that and your technicians safe, which is what you’re doing- Yeah … that lockout pin doesn’t quite fit in the hole and it creates a little bit of a safety risk. Yeah. So now CNC on-site’s coming in and saying, “Hey, wait a minute. We can realign that, clean that hole up, make that safe again.”  Søren Kellenberger: Yes.  Allen Hall 2025: Explain what that looks like and what that process is to do that.  Søren Kellenberger: Yeah. So again, it’s the same thought like with the, with the O-ring, uh, that instead of bringing a component down and trying to fix it, we have designed some machinery we can bring uptower and then make that repair. So basically what we do is that, that we mill that hole a little bit larger and then we bring a bushing, uh, that we, uh, freeze into that hole- Okay … and to recreate that tight fit again with a, with a locking pin. Uh, so it’s, it’s not that [00:11:00] complicated, but you still need to know, of course, what you are doing. So finding the center of the original hole is one of the critical things because you want the center of the new ring to be in that same position- Sure … to make sure it fits with the pin  Allen Hall 2025: right. So- Right. You can’t just take a drill up there and try to clean out that hole. No, no. That is not the way to do that That,  Søren Kellenberger: that  Allen Hall 2025: won’t work. No, no . I’m sure it’s been tried, but- Yeah … no, you wanna have accurate mach- actual, uh, tight tolerance machinery up there to, to align that hole, drill it properly, put that insert back into that spot- Yeah … which is gonna be a hardened insert so it’ll last longer, right?  Søren Kellenberger: Yeah, yeah.  Allen Hall 2025: So once you do that, y- it’s a permanent fix to a otherwise nagging problem. That’s wonderful.  Søren Kellenberger: Yeah.  Allen Hall 2025: So, th- again, that kit just goes right uptower, right up the, the lift, right up the cl- crane- Exactly … and bang, you’re done. Yeah. Okay.  Søren Kellenberger: So all our machines are designed to be able to be lifted with the internal crane-  Allen Hall 2025: Yeah …  Søren Kellenberger: of that specific nacelle.  Allen Hall 2025: Okay.  Søren Kellenberger: So obviously as the cells go bigger, they have more load cap- uh- Me too load capacity. Yeah. So for the smaller [00:12:00] turbines, the machines come in, in a bit smaller parts- Okay … so that we are sure we stay within that 250 or 500 kilogram or even whatever the limit is of, of that- Yeah, yeah, yeah … crane. And then we can, uh, reassemble everything uptower and still do tolerances within a few hundredths of a millimeter. And, and I think that is, that is really the core of, of what we do that, that we can achieve those workshop tolerances on site, um-  Allen Hall 2025: It’s crazy when I tell people that. I say, “Well, you know, CNC on-site, they can’t… I mean, those, those tolerances can’t be that tight.” And I say, “No, no, no, no. They’re talking about, you know, fractions of a millimeter,” which in, in American terms means fractions of a mil. Yeah. That’s 1/1000th of an inch. That’s the tolerance you’re doing.  Søren Kellenberger: Yeah.  Allen Hall 2025: Uh, and that means quality at the end of the day. If you can machine things that tight, that means what you’re getting is gonna be right for that job. Yeah. It’s gonna fix that, fix that problem permanently, which is the goal. Yes. Don’t recreate the problem. Just fix it once and be done. Now, blade root [00:13:00] inserts, huge issue. CNC on-site has been developing tooling to drill out those existing inserts and, and put in new inserts, and you’re having success with that.  Søren Kellenberger: Yeah.  Allen Hall 2025: That’s a… it seems like a complicated process, but you have owned that quite well. Talk about what that machinery looks like today, how you’re doing that process, and what have you learned from doing some, uh, field work. Søren Kellenberger: It’s, uh… we actually, we’ve, we’ve developed two different machines now. Okay. So we, we have, we have one that is, uh, fully CNC controlled, uh, when you need to do a lot of bushings. Yeah. Um, that one takes a bit more, uh, time to set up, but, but, uh, each drilling process is, is really fast. Uh, and then we have developed a semi-automatic machine as well, uh, which is a little bit easier to mount, mounts directly on the blade. And it’s, uh, really perfect when you only have smaller areas of the, the blade root where you don’t need to replace all bushings- But maybe typically it’s, it’s in the high load [00:14:00] area, which is 15 to 20 bushings maybe. Right. Something like that, right? Yes.  Allen Hall 2025: Yeah.  Søren Kellenberger: So, so there we can just mount it directly on the blade and, and then drill from, uh, from there. Um, and it works really well. We completed, uh, the first large scale, uh, commercial, uh, project, uh, together with our good friends from, uh, We4C. Uh- Right.  Allen Hall 2025: Yes.  Søren Kellenberger: And, uh, and now we are producing, uh, two more drilling machines- Oh … uh, for, for new upcoming, uh, projects also together with, uh, the guys from, from We4C. Allen Hall 2025: Wow.  Søren Kellenberger: So now it’s, it’s starting to, uh, to pick up. Um, it’s been a relatively long process, and I guess no one really wants to be the first mover on, uh, on new technology, right? Right. So we’ve had a lot of questions. Oh, that… And that looks interesting, but how many, uh, turbines, uh, or how many blades have you repaired? And it’s been up until now, well, it’s only tested in the lab. Uh, but now we have the first, uh, large scale commercial, uh, project with, uh, 26, uh, turbines, [00:15:00] uh, repaired and, uh, and 1,000 bushings, uh, that were replaced, uh, across those, uh, 26 turbines. So-  Allen Hall 2025: Wow …  Søren Kellenberger: so I guess that is now large scale. Uh-  Allen Hall 2025: That’s large scale. Yeah. Yeah. I would consider 1,000 a large scale test. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. And that brings all those turbines back to life.  Søren Kellenberger: Absolutely. They are up running, uh, full power again, so, uh, that is, uh-  Allen Hall 2025: That’s huge …  Søren Kellenberger: really nice.  Allen Hall 2025: For the operator, I’m sure they love that.  Søren Kellenberger: Yeah. And, and of course, uh, there’s, there’s been a lot of discussions about blades and, uh, bla- the, the waste, uh, issue you have on, on worn- Oh out blades. Sure. So by being able to fix them instead of replacing them, not only is the, the cost for fixing a blade a lot lower than buying new ones, uh, but, but also from a, an environmental perspective. The not having to scrap them and create that waste is, uh, is also a nice, uh,  Allen Hall 2025: thing. Yeah, it’s one of the things that pops up more recently about replacing blades, and I think the [00:16:00] industry and the operators are pushing back on that. Uh, because a lot of times the OEM wants to replace a blade, it’s just easier for them to do.  Søren Kellenberger: Yeah.  Allen Hall 2025: But the reality is, is that yeah, you’re creating this additional problem. What are you gonna do with the disposal of this blade? Do we really need to do that? Is it so far gone that I can’t recover it? I think a lot of times, especially with fiberglass blades- Yeah you can bring them back to life.  Søren Kellenberger: Yeah.  Allen Hall 2025: Just with a little bit of engineering, uh, prowess and some good machinery- Yeah. You can, you can make magic happen, and that’s what CNC OnSite is doing. So that, that’s really amazing that, uh, you’re starting to get more adoption of that on, on the blade root inserts. I know across the United States there’s all kinds of issues, and you’re proving it out. I think the adoption rate in America and all over is gonna really step up. Now, uh, you always have some cool new project, sort of top secret. What are you working on that the world needs to know about?  Søren Kellenberger: Yeah. W- I mean, we are constantly, uh, [00:17:00]expanding our, our line of services. Uh, so- Sure … so we are just out there trying to listen to what kind of issues do we see in, in the industry-  Allen Hall 2025: Yeah Søren Kellenberger: and how can that be fixed, uh, uptower. So, so some of the, the latest, uh, innovations we’ve been doing is a, a new machine on, um… to, to do shaft milling. Uh, so that c- that can be on generator shafts, uh, for instance. There are some machines out there, but we’ve decided to go, uh, against CNC control- Okay because it gives us a lot of, uh, opportunities both on, on speed, uh, of the process. It’s a more safe, uh, way to, uh, to do it.  Allen Hall 2025: Sure.  Søren Kellenberger: And we can actually also do different, uh, shapes on the shaft, so, so we can do more advanced, uh, repairs. Okay. We, we don’t need to stick to a certain diameter all the way. Now we can, we can mo- make grooves, and we can do, uh- Really? all sort of sorts of stuff, uh- Oh … along that process because it’s CNC controlled.  Allen Hall 2025: Oh, sure. Okay. Um, and- Boy, okay. That makes a lot of sense. So you can actually take a, a, a basic, [00:18:00] basic, basic design of a shaft and make modifications to it- Yeah … to extend the lifetime and make it work better.  Søren Kellenberger: Yes. So typically we would mill down, uh, the shaft and- Sure install a sleeve- Sure … to recreate a, a bearing fit, for instance.  Allen Hall 2025: Right. Yeah.  Søren Kellenberger: But we have possibilities to, uh, to create, um, grooves or anything that would do a stress relief or whatever you need, lubrication, or if you, if you want to do something, uh, afterwards, we, we can do that with, uh, with our machines. Uh- Yeah. So yeah, we, we have some new machines for, for hollow shaft, uh, machining, so we can do stuff, uh, inside the main shaft, for instance. We can do stuff on the, the outside, as I mentioned on, on the generator shaft, but that could be on the gearbox as well. So- Sure … sometimes we see issues on the main shaft to, to gearbox, uh, connection. Allen Hall 2025: Yeah.  Søren Kellenberger: We are able to, to fix, uh, those, uh, things uptower. Wow. And, uh, so yeah, lot of new, uh, stuff being, uh, developed.  Allen Hall 2025: That’s, that’s awesome.  Søren Kellenberger: [00:19:00] Yeah.  Allen Hall 2025: And I, I know you guys are busy, but- If somebody wants to get ahold of CNC Onsite and get work done this year, they better be making phone calls to you- … quickly. So I, I know your order book is filling up and you’re, you’re having to devote crews and machinery and time. Yeah. How do people get ahold of you and get on that contact list and can start working the process?  Søren Kellenberger: I would say go into, uh, cnconsite.dk and, uh, there we have all our, our contacts. Uh, so just reach out. There’s a, yeah, formula you can, uh, fill in, uh, or you can find our direct contacts in our webpage, and, uh, then we can start looking at it. So we are quite busy, but we are always- Yeah … open for, uh, discussions and, uh, yeah. That,  Allen Hall 2025: that’s a problem with being successful, is you’re just always busy running around trying to take care of problems, and that’s the thing, is that everybody I talk to that’s used CNC Onsite loves it-  Søren Kellenberger: Yeah …  Allen Hall 2025: and loves the process and loves the work you do. So there’s gonna be a lot more phone calls and a lot more orders coming your way, and that’s- Yeah … that’s awesome. [00:20:00] Soren- Yeah … it’s so good to see you again and it’s so good to see you in person. Yeah. And congratulations on the promotion and everything that’s happening at CNC Onsite.  Søren Kellenberger: Thank you, Allen. It’s a pleasure.

El Banco de Francia ya tiene sustituto para François Villeroy.. el presidente Macron tiene previsto nombrar como próximo gobernador a Emmanuel Moulin, uno de sus más estrechos colaboradores, quien desde abril de 2025 es jefe de gabinete del presidente. En clave macro, la economía de la eurozona se contrae por primera vez en casi un año y medio. Los datos finales del índice PMI de abril “confirman los indicios tempranos de una economía que se encamina hacia el declive, a medida que la guerra en Irán frena la recuperación”. En clave empresarial, este miércoles han presentado resultados Novo Nordisk, Philips, Infineon, Vestas y muchas otras. Entrevistaremos a Joaquín García, experto hipotecario de Wypo, en un escenario en el que el nuevo comprador de vivienda es más prudente, más digital y más exigente. Los temas de la actualidad, a debate con Iñigo Petit, ceo de iDen Global.

Mere end halvdelen af de danske børskæmper fra C25-indekset leverer friske tal til investorerne denne uge, og derfor byder Millionærklubben ind til en solid omgang regnskabs opvarmning. Vi diskuterer, hvad du skal holde øje med når der kommer tal fra Novo Nordisk, Pandora, Vestas, Ørsted og mange flere. Derudover vender panelet de aktuelle historier fra markedet, hvor friske meldinger fra Trump selvfølgelig stjæler opmærksomheden, og Warren Buffet fortsætter med at øge sin pengekasse. Panelet består i dag af investeringsstrateg i Saxo Bank Oskar Barner Bernhardtsen, investor og selvstændig strateg Michelle Nørgaard samt vores faste porteføljeforvalter Lars Persson, der er også er teknisk analytiker ved Aktieraadet. Vært: Adam GeilSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Allen covers CIP’s €1.44 billion buyout of Ørsted’s European onshore wind, the new Perigus Energy name, and Vestas paying €506 million for its stake in the firm. Sign up now for Uptime Tech News, our weekly newsletter on all things wind technology. This episode is sponsored by Weather Guard Lightning Tech. Learn more about Weather Guard’s StrikeTape Wind Turbine LPS retrofit. Follow the show on YouTube, Linkedin and visit Weather Guard on the web. And subscribe to Rosemary’s “Engineering with Rosie” YouTube channel here. Have a question we can answer on the show? Email us! In Denmark, there is an old expression. “What goes around comes around.” The founders of Copenhagen Infrastructure Partners — known in the industry simply as CIP — know exactly what that means. Back in 2012, four executives were fired from DONG Energy, the Danish energy giant that would later rebrand itself as Ørsted. Their offense? Their paychecks were considered too large. So large that DONG Energy’s own CEO was forced out as well. Four men shown the door were. A year later, a woman joined them from that same company. The Danish press had a name for these five. They called them “the golden birds.” With six billion Danish krone from the pension fund PensionDanmark, they launched what is now one of the world’s largest clean energy fund managers. In 2020, turbine maker Vestas purchased a 25 percent stake in CIP. The deal included a performance-based earn-out arrangement. This week, the books revealed the size of that windfall. The five partners have now collected a combined 1.8 billion Danish krone — roughly 240 million euros. Vestas expects to make one final payment of 71 million euros this year. Including interest, Vestas will have paid 506 million euros for its stake in CIP. Not a bad return for a group of people who were shown the door. And. This week, CIP completed its acquisition of Ørsted’s European onshore wind business for 1.44 billion euros. They renamed it Perigus Energy. The new company holds 826 megawatts of wind and solar capacity, operating in Ireland, Germany, the United Kingdom, and Spain. Let that circle close. The executives fired from DONG Energy — the company that became Ørsted — just bought Ørsted’s business. Meanwhile, CIP’s annual report for 2025 tells the story of a company in transition. Profit for the year came in at 561 million Danish krone, down from 683 million the year before. The employee count fell by nearly a fifth, to 441 people. And yet, their CI Five fund closed this year at 12.3 billion euros — the largest greenfield renewable infrastructure fund ever raised. Looking ahead, CIP expects profit of 600 to 800 million Danish krone in 2026 as new fund closings take shape. So the picture this week is this. The men and women once considered overpaid, at a company that no longer carries the same name, have built the world’s largest greenfield renewable energy fund. And they now own a piece of the legacy that fired them. The golden birds are still flying. And that is the wind energy news for the fourth of May, 2026. Join us for more on the Uptime Wind Energy Podcast.

US wind PPA prices climb to $79.40/MWh as the IRA sunsets. Plus GE Vernova ordered to stay at Vineyard Wind, lessons from Spain’s blackout, and data centers straining the US grid. Sign up now for Uptime Tech News, our weekly newsletter on all things wind technology. This episode is sponsored by Weather Guard Lightning Tech. Learn more about Weather Guard’s StrikeTape Wind Turbine LPS retrofit. Follow the show on YouTube, Linkedin and visit Weather Guard on the web. And subscribe to Rosemary’s “Engineering with Rosie” YouTube channel here. Have a question we can answer on the show? Email us! The Uptime Wind Energy Podcast brought to you by Strike Tape protecting thousands of wind turbines from lightning damage worldwide. Visit strike tape.com and now your hosts. Allen Hall: Welcome to the Uptime Wind Energy Podcast. I’m your host, Allen Hall here with Nikki Briggs, who is in North Carolina this week, and Yolanda Padron who is back from the exciting wedding and weekend in Mexico. Welcome back, Yolanda.  Yolanda Padron: Thank you. Excited to be here,  Allen Hall: uh, this week there’s a, there’s a lot going on and we’re gonna touch upon some of it. Uh, Rosemary is over in China this week and Matthew is actually at Wind Europe in Madrid. And so this is gonna be an American focused episode mostly, but it’s gonna have global implications. One of the key items is PPA prices in the United States and with the on sunsetting of the [00:01:00] IRA Bills, uh, tax credits, and the whole infrastructure there with the one big beautiful bill when it crushed the IRA bill. PPA Prices needed to come up well. That’s happening, right? So developers, uh, can’t live without some money to compensate for the roughly 26, 26 7 20 $7 in PPA prices that were compensated by the tax credits. But, uh, when purchase price agreements have hit the highest level since they begin tracking it at Wood Mac. The average wind PPA now stands at $79 and 40 cents per megawatt hour up 24% from just one year ago now, Yolanda, you and I were talking before we started recording today about how low some of those PPA prices were two years ago, three years ago. Some of them were almost single digits.  Yolanda Padron: Yeah, yeah. Some of them were pretty low. I [00:02:00] remember 16, $19 EPA prices and then a couple years ago we were looking at those and thinking, oh no, I can’t believe we, we kept those prices and they’re so low and everything’s changed so much, and the prices grown so much, and that was two years ago and now it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s almost four times as much as, as what we had originally thought, which is. Not super great for those older projects,  Allen Hall: obviously, uh, when they, if they do repower, the extent they’re gonna have to renegotiate the PPAs. Right. The, the landscape has changed quite a bit. So the, the question really is now are they gonna be able to renegotiate new PPAs when the existing PPA hopefully ends? You can’t, you can’t run turbines for free and will they repower. Or will they just try to extend the lifetime? I think it’s a lot of operators trying to figure that out right now. And that’s in light of installations. So Whim Mac also says that US wind installations are [00:03:00] on track to nearly double in 2026, uh, building towards 48 gigawatts of new capacity through 2030, which all makes sense, right? That the, the. Uh, everybody’s trying to get all their assets in the ground so they, they qualify for the, the tax credits. So there’s a big push. So 2026 and 2027 are gonna be pretty busy years. Uh, but the, the negotiations are still going on and we’re talking to operators. Nikki and I have been talking to operators this past week or the last couple of weeks, honestly. There is all kinds of negotiations going on for turbines right now and who can get turbines? Can they get ’em in time? Can they get ’em planted fast enough? Nikki, it is causing a lot of operators to spend a great deal of time doing planning that they otherwise wouldn’t have been working on two years ago. Nikki Briggs: Definitely. I mean, it seems kind of weird to me because it’s like a weird spot. It’s like, um, you know, we want more power and we need to do all these projects, [00:04:00] but then. The permitting process is just like a brick wall or something, you know? Um, like it just takes them so much more to get through, um, and get it moving. Allen Hall: Well, I, I think if you have an existing site, you’re gonna repower it. I mean, that’s probably the easiest thing to do if, if you can pull it off. The, the question is how big of a turbine are you gonna purchase? A lot of those turbines that are gonna get repowered are probably 1.5. To two megawatt machines. They’re going to move up to five or six megawatt machines, generally speaking. So they’re reducing the amount of turbines that are gonna be on site. But the, the amount of power that’s delivered usually is about the same, maybe a little bit more. Which, which, which strives the, which drives the, the equation of, Hey, what’s everybody gonna do in the next couple of years with the data centers. Having listened to the GE Renova financial report for Q1 that just came out as we’re earlier today. GE is trying to sell gas turbines like there’s no tomorrow. However, the weird thing about it was that they were [00:05:00] very nervous about locking in firm orders that a lot of the deposits they had for like 2029 or moving into 2030. So they had a, a discussion about GE Renova building gas turbines. They could do about 20 gigawatts a year, but they had like a 10 gigawatt hole. In 20 29, 20 30 of orders because the data centers are realizing, like to get a contractor to put a hole in the ground so you can put a data center in is taking more time than they thought. It’s not Silicon Valley where you can just type some software. And Yolanda, you’re kind of in the middle of this right now, being in Austin, Texas. Is the, the drive for data centers and the drive for power, what it was six months ago, is that landscape changed? Has everybody come back to reality? Like building physical projects takes time. Yolanda Padron: I think people are starting to get, get back to reality from the little bit that, that I’ve been, that. I privy to, uh, I do think that you mentioned the GE renova and [00:06:00] just kind of all the changes and everything. And I know in the past we’ve talked about, um, the fact that, you know, a lot of blade manufacturers have changed hands for wind and a lot of things are uncertain in general. Um, I think right now with the boom of people trying to repower and doing everything as quickly as possible and as safely as possible, it’s really important that everybody should. Try to get as much documentation on everything as possible, not just to, to protect yourselves, right? I mean, if there’s some sort of, I mean, you’re, you’re, you’re checking that the foundation on your turbine is perfect still, um, doing all the civil engineering studies that you need to do and making sure that, that everything’s fine, um, for, for the long term, right? If you’re not, you’re not planning on repowering again in five years. Um. But just to track everything. There’s so much movement right now and so much uncertainty that at the very least, so you know, what you’re dealing with, if and when you have an issue, [00:07:00] you know, five years down the line, like, oh, this is what happened and this is why, this is who I need to talk to, or this is how I’m going to solve this. Or, you know, it’s not a new problem. Um, because it’s just, there’s just so many, so many factors changing. All at once that it’s, it’s a little bit, it’s a little bit daunting for everyone in this space. I don’t know if you guys feel the same way.  Nikki Briggs: I have a separate question, um, which is, you know about these PPA pricing, if it’s going up, it continues to go up. Is the old adage about like green energy is the, is is the cheapest? Is that like out of the wind now? I mean, that’s not even. You can’t even apply that.  Allen Hall: No, I think renewable energy, solar and wind are the lowest cost, fastest way to get power onto the grid. The, the, the question is, uh, will state and federal governments prohibit it? Because if you’re talking about the gas turbines, [00:08:00] which is not cheap, and you’re talking maybe the earliest is 20 30, 20 32. Uh, as when you be able to, to get something scale there. What else did there that you’re gonna build? Nuclear. Nuclear GE iss. Talking about nuclear small modular reactors again today. And they got a project going up in Canada, it sounded like that’s not vast either. So if you’re talking about speed and deployment, solar’s quick, right? You can just put ’em up and you can get wind turbines up pretty fast too. But anything that’s uh, gas turbine or god forbid, we start burning oil again to make electricity. Uh, I, I just don’t see it. This has implications obviously over in Europe too, right? So Wind Europe is this week, and it’s in Madrid, of course. And the Vesta, CEO, Henrik Anderson’s, uh, told the audience over in Europe that, uh, hey, there’s a lot of choices to be made [00:09:00] here the next couple of years, and it’s more important now than ever, uh, to. Think about renewables with the problems in the ous, straight of ous, sending prices higher. Does Europe want to be connected to a petroleum future? I think Europe has been struggling with that since obviously the Ukraine war started. So the, the problems in Iran are just gonna double down on that. The EU Energy Commissioner, uh, Dan Jorgenson, uh, called it out. Earlier this week and said it’s, this is not an energy crisis, it’s a fossil fuel crisis. So if we don’t have to rely on fossil fuel so much, then the energy crisis will hopefully come down in Europe. Uh, but one of the weird things about what’s happening and where Europe is, although Vestas and the EU energy Minister Commissioner are talking about fossil fuels and moving to electricity into more renewables, when [00:10:00] Europe is talking about, uh. Unfettered media posts that are, that there’s misinformation happening and, and how they’re going to deal with misinformation. That’s not their, to me it’s not their problem. Misinformation is not slowing down projects you, you have to deal with. Uh, obviously people are gonna oppose power plants, Tesla facilities, whatever’s going on in their neighborhood. The, there’s gonna be opposition to it. You have to learn how to deal with it. And I, I’m always shocked when, when a, a large organization, be it American Clean Power or, or Wind Europe or one of the many others, or complaining about misinformation, they’re in their information business. They need to be doing more work, laying the groundwork locally to deal with some of these issues. But it does feel like. Yolanda have seen this up close, uh, where there’s been sort of local disputes about, particularly wind, uh, that you, you need a little bit of help, right? [00:11:00] You can’t rely on the, the operator, owner operator to provide all the ammunition to, to, to fight off. Uh, you know, the, the generic Facebook posts about wind turbines killing birds or whatever they’re gonna post. Is, is there a, a, a future here where a a, a Wind Europe does a, an American clean power for that matter, do a better job of communicating why you would wanna have renewable energy in your backyard?  Yolanda Padron: I think we just all need to just agree in general about what our approach is here. Right? Because we, I know there’s, we’ve talked about companies that really, really wanna do, you know, if, if you can. Produce X amount of money by creating wind power, then you’re, I’m gonna charge you X minus one. Right? Like, I’m gonna maximize my profits as much as possible. Um, and then there’s other people who are just really, really trying to, [00:12:00] to do with, deal with what they can. You know, they, you have 25-year-old projects that have been going on forever and ever. No one’s manufacturing them anymore. And people are still finding solutions to keep those alive. And then there’s, I know we talked about, I think it was Japan that was doing that really crazy work with these smaller turbines that, I mean, they already know what the issues with those turbines are. So just, just removing a lot of the factors going into something very experimental for, you know. We could all talk about the greater good, which is making sure that renewable energy is something that’s financially accessible. Right. I, I know we have a friend who’s been talking about it for a really long time and he said, you know, it shouldn’t be a thing of this is the right thing to do, should be a thing. This is the most cost effective thing to do, and I think he’s right. I think we should all just really try [00:13:00] to make sure that we work together. To make it the most cost effective way of producing energy, um, of solving all the problems that we can and not just, I mean, we can focus about competition later, right? If we really, really want to.  Allen Hall: Let’s talk about the, the power demand for a minute. So, a number of states in the US have prohibited data centers altogether. I think the number I saw last was like 30 states have prohibited. Data centers main being the most recent one that I recall, where they just prohibited ’em in the state. That has to do with electricity prices. That the concern is if I have a couple of gigawatts being devoted to any, you know, uh, ai, Facebook, Google, uh, x, ai, any of those that my electricity rates are gonna go up and, and a lot of the states are putting blockades in essentially to prevent that from happening. That changes the landscape dramatically, right? [00:14:00] Where now, uh, if they were gonna put renewable energy in, in advance of ai, those projects are gonna die, obviously. Is there, is there a, a place where data centers, ai, electricity demand being increased, is met with renewables and some logic? Will that ever come to a place where everybody will be happy? Yolanda Padron: I mean, I think it can, in that case, I guess when Europe is correct in saying, you know, we need to stop the misinformation spread, right? But it’s also, I think it’s, it’s, it’s like one of those things where it’s like, it’s such a small part of the equation to make sure that the people who don’t exactly have a lot to do with the decisions that are being made. Legally, um, are on the same page. I think it’s more of, you know, the people who [00:15:00] are making these decisions need to come to an agreement on what’s, what’s best and what’s fiscally responsible for the area.  Allen Hall: Would you wanna turn away? I, I think the thing about AI data centers and the issues that’s driving it, it’s once you have a AI data center up and running, there’s hardly anybody working there, so it doesn’t create jobs. A lot of times they don’t even have lights. Right? Why do you need lights? The computers don’t need lights. They’re just gonna sit there and run that. If it was bringing jobs, I think everybody would think differently about data centers. But because data centers don’t bring jobs, except in the power generation side, there’s not a big incentive for states to allow them. So I don’t see how this works. Right. At some point, somebody somewhere is gonna figure it out. That I’m gonna have to have a lot of excess electricity. Maybe it’s Norway and it has to be pretty cold again, Norway or Sweden, where I could put data centers and it, it may not even happen in the us. Is that what we’re, is [00:16:00] that what we’re gonna see? Nikki Briggs: I don’t know what we’re gonna see, but I’ve, I’ve heard that, um, aren’t they putting data centers in the, in the water now too underwater and like in the ocean and there’s talk about putting data centers in space and, you know, all kinds of things to, to find these different environments. But I think, um, with the. Increased demand and power that it’s gonna be all these data centers are gonna be taking. And as, um, we know AI is very exponential, right? So it’s, it’s growing exponentially in the use and, um, the adoption of it and the models are getting stronger and so it’s consuming a lot more energy, right? And so I feel like the switch back around to sustainability as, as, uh, like a core need of. Of the Earth is gonna have to, it’s gonna have to come back around for sustainability. I mean, because you can’t, you can’t just keep doing that.  Allen Hall: I think the thing is, in, in Europe, they [00:17:00] obviously are interested in having some AI data centers, and that will be the, the growth plan of course, because they want to be able to compete with the rest of the world. So Europe will be in this mode of we need to create more electricity. But they want, at the same time, decouple from the Middle East and maybe even from the United States in terms of using, uh, petroleum based products to, to power their grid. I think that’s, that’s inevitable. So they’re gonna have to make a huge change in Europe. We’re, we’re looking at massive changes in the US who knows about China right now. Uh, what they’re planning to do besides pour money into everything, all the above strategy is what China seems to be doing. Does that then. If, especially, let’s just talk about the GE and over thing. So, Yolanda, I think this touches your point, which is GE and over win business is really not healthy. They lost about 300 plus million dollars in the first quarter, EBITDA wise, uh, compared to, uh, roughly a [00:18:00] year ago. It was like a hundred million dollars they lost. So the, the continued pain at GE Renova Wind. Uh, is maybe, which I thought was gonna flatline, it seems to be getting worse. All of a sudden. They think it’s gonna be better in the second half of the year. And maybe that’s true. Hopefully it is. But if you’re, if you’re talking about putting on more data centers, more electricity demand, just ’cause of population growth and your wind companies maybe besides vestus or not doing that well. Do we get there? Does, can we, can we do this? Can we actually turn this corner, make that turn, get onto, uh, more electricity, be able to compete against the world in AI and everything else, electricity wise. Is this gonna happen or is everybody gonna. Take a five year pause while they figure it out.  Yolanda Padron: I just think that everybody’s just kind of running with their shoes untied, right? Like we’re all trying to race.  Allen Hall: They’re running with scissors and the shoes untied.  Yolanda Padron: Yeah, it is like it. I mean, eventually someone’s gonna have to [00:19:00] pause or trip  Allen Hall: because you always wonder how serious some of these data center projects are because you hear the names like who? Uh, and the one that always gets me is, no, no offense to Stanford University, but. Lately, I’m hearing a lot of Stanford University graduates that are planning some massive power generation source of some sun type and just go, okay, no. Can we stop? Can we stop for a minute? No. Having a master’s degree from Stanford doesn’t know. You probably don’t know how to build a data center. Sorry. And you probably don’t know how to do distributed energy. You don’t. It’s just those are complicated and industrial things that take a lot of money and time and resources, so, no. So the, the reality of what is. Real that will be built, that’s gonna come due. I think there’s a lot of projects that were theoretical and grand and, uh, six months ago even are going to go kapoof, like pets.com. In 2001, it’s gonna be the same thing.  Nikki Briggs: You’re dating yourself, Alan.  Allen Hall: There was a time when. [00:20:00] When everybody was gonna be, be a internet billionaire, and one of ’em was pets.com, right? So pets.com was this pet store thing, and, and it was, they had a great URL of course, but as soon as, you know, there was any e you know, the, the, the, the, uh, planes hit the towers in New York City, poof, that thing was gone and they could sustain the, the economics of, um. The US at the moment, and when I think of Austin, I think all the tech bros are in Austin. Like you drive around Austin, you just see it. There’s a lot of smart people on the ground trying to do these grandiose things. Electricity generation is a hundred and twenty five, a hundred forty years old. That is an industrial process that is really hard to break into and you can’t AI your way into creating data centers. Does somebody realize that? And was the GE talk today? I’m gonna be the GE talk today, Yolanda, on the gas turbines. Obviously [00:21:00] they wanna take as many orders as they can or get place placeholder deposits in one of the GEs competitors is not even taking orders past 2030 ’cause they don’t think they’re real if they were real. I think everybody taking orders and I think they’re, they’re seeing the quality of that individual walking in the door trying to place, place that deposit and realize. They don’t know how to work EPC.  Yolanda Padron: Have you seen, I know there’s, there’s been a lot of like memes right now about how the use of electricity in AI and data centers and it’s like, you know, we’ve increased exponentially, so we will continue increasing exponentially until the end of time. Allen Hall: Till the world explodes.  Yolanda Padron: Yeah, exactly. And it’s like, I don’t think, I mean, to your point, like I, is it real like it. It could, it was sort of, um, it did grow a lot and it’s continuing to grow a lot. I just don’t know that it’s gonna be something where like everybody has a data center in their backyard, or everyone’s connected to a data center within a mile. You [00:22:00] know,  Allen Hall: I think you’re a hundred percent right about that. So the realism is hitting the market, right? So as PPA prices increase and the realities of construction projects hits everybody, this is gonna slow down. Quite a bit.  Yolanda Padron: I’m curious to see how long that’ll be before we overshoot it for the PPA prices. Allen Hall: Oh, you think, okay. That’s a, that’s a really good point because I, I was wondering that today, I’ve been telling people for two years now, as soon as they, uh, the tax credits sunset that PPA prices necessarily have to go up, they just have to go up the, the, the offshore wind PPA prices, were in the $150, uh, megawatt hour. Ballpark, uh, for a couple of projects off the coast in New York. I don’t know what they are in Europe at the minute. I, I should go look. I do actually do know. I should go back and look though. But the onshore prices are obviously much less, right? If you’re in the $80 per megawatt hour, although it does seem high, it is relatively [00:23:00] low compared to everything else you’re gonna be able to do. What, what are the choices you’re gonna do? What other, what other choices can you make?  Yolanda Padron: What kind of structure are you gonna. Work with is if you’re increasing, increasing, increasing, and then eventually we’re gonna hit a plateau eventually, or like an almost plateau. But I highly doubt everyone’s gonna be able to forecast exactly when that is without overshooting it. Allen Hall: Yeah. I guess the question is how much is the overshoot. Is it a hundred dollars? Is it $120? Is it $150?  Nikki Briggs: I have a question though, because are these AI data centers, are they meant to be running completely on wind power?  Allen Hall: They in theory can’t. Right?  Nikki Briggs: They need power 24 7. So  Yolanda Padron: yeah, they need to have some sort of backup thing, so maybe even backup in the grid or something if it’s not something directly hitting it. A lot of projects are like co-located, so you might have wind and battery or wind solar battery or something. All together,  Allen Hall: the XAI effort in Memphis, right? There’s, it is gas turbines, a bunch of gas turbines they’ve bought from [00:24:00] all over, but it has a pretty good best backup to provide stability to that. I think you’d have to do that, right?  Nikki Briggs: You’d have to have a a, a failover plan or something. Yeah.  Allen Hall: Having watched the internet and at different times of day, there’s nothing happening between like us time midnight and 6:00 AM. There is zero going on, and I always think does 24 7 AI data center need is so not gonna happen because when people are, if, if the data center is providing roughly national, or say it’s Europe, there’s, there’s, people are awake as a certain time of day and then they’re not. Right? So unless your data center’s gonna feed China, which it won’t, and Europe at the same time, or the US and Europe, it’s still, there’s just blocks of time where the. You just don’t need a lot of power. You just don’t need it. So the 24 7 demand, I think is not real  Nikki Briggs: well, but they have to keep them cool. And you [00:25:00] know, I mean there’s like the environment inside of the data center has to be a certain, uh. Uh, specification, I guess. Right? One question that I, that I had come up here on the side, Alan, had you heard about the, uh, CEO from Vestas talking about the need for an energy union?  Allen Hall: Yes, but this is not the first time it’s come up, uh, to, to try to, to gather everybody together. Ideally, if you’re thinking about the eu. Working together, and rarely does that happen, but if it were to happen, Vestas would be a huge winner in that. So would Siemens esa Honestly, the, the weird thing about all what’s happening in Madrid and at, when Europe at the moment is that sizzle’s back and they’re talking about doing projects in Europe and uh, I think a Donny is also talking about doing projects in Europe or providing turbines, right? So there’s. [00:26:00] Once Ming Yang was rejected in Scotland, which I thought was inevitable, I’ve always thought that the second place to go to get turbines that would compete with Avesta and Siemens is in India, and I do, because it’s an English speaking country, it does break down a lot of barriers. That’s for sure. And because obviously it was a, a, a British colony for a long time, there’s the relationship there. That would be it. It, I think something that makes, makes sense. So Vestus, who would obviously be the winner of all the offshore and maybe even some of the onshore projects in the UK may have competition. So although Vestas may be hoping for more of a energy block, which. Uh, could work, honestly. It could work and you could see a lot of wind and solar and batteries and hydro in, in Europe and obviously France with nuclear. I think [00:27:00] India has a really good shot at penetrating that market that would change the dynamics quite a bit. That would put pressure on Vestas to lower prices, no doubt. And so the, the, the dream scenario of Vestas is the only. OM standing in this huge demand market, which is all local to them. Uh, that may not actually turn out there. There could be some really rough patches here. If, uh, the so salons, a Donnies of the world, they can produce a five megawatt, six megawatt turbine. God knows if they could make a a 15 megawatt offshore turbine, that would put a tremendous amount of pressure on Vestus. Tremendous, and that would be harder to stop. I think from a a UK standpoint, very interesting times. Vestus is well suited to, to gain market share and is rapidly in the United States and a number of other countries, Australia being another, and Europe, but woo. Huh. The dream scenario never works out like you think it [00:28:00] will. It never does. As wind energy professionals, staying informed is crucial, and let’s face it difficult. That’s why the Uptime podcast recommends PES Wind Magazine. PES Wind offers a diverse range of in-depth articles and expert insights that dive into the most pressing issues facing our energy future. Whether you’re an industry veteran or a new. Wind, PES Wind has the high quality content you need. Don’t miss out. Visit PES wind.com today. So there’s been more information come out about the, this Iberian blackout that happened about a year ago. And as the, the details are, uh, published and everybody has a chance to review them, uh, one, one person to check out is, um. Howard Pinrose at Motor Dock and his chaos in Caffeine podcast, which happens on the weekends because he provides some good summaries about some of the latest news from the Iberian Peninsula and the reports that are being published. [00:29:00] The Iberian blackout and the role of renewables is very interesting. The, the problem that they had was, uh. Instability. So it, the grid was just generally unstable and they had a transformer fail and that just cascaded where, uh, they were disconnected from the rest of Europe. So the Liberian peninsula was just automatically disconnected and that happened relatively quickly. One of the things that could have supported the grid, and I think you’re gonna see changes happening, and Howard Pinrose was just in Washington DC with American clean power pushing for this, which is. As Yolanda knows, solar and wind have sort of two moats. They can follow the grid and produce power and just kind of follow along. Or better yet, they can form the grid and support the grid and be a resource when things get wobbly on the grid. And Spain learn that lesson really [00:30:00] well about a year ago, and I think we’re gonna find that all those solar panels that disconnected and because you’re in a following mode, protect mode. If they had had ’em in a, a more, uh, command role into managing the grid, that maybe the Iberian peninsula may not have blacked out. Maybe parts of it had because they lost a transformer, but there may be a role for renewables in terms of grid stability. Doesn’t that seem odd? Because the story and the mis, maybe the misinformation that’s happening around the world is, well, if the wind turbine isn’t turning, it can’t help monitor the grid. It actually can, same thing for solar. Those inverters that sit on the grid are actually thinking and working and reacting. So they can actually provide a lot more, uh, stability to the grid than maybe be some other resources at, at a lot less cost. Is there a scenario where we start changing the rules about wind and solar where we, instead of them playing dumb, that they become smart [00:31:00] and provide more stability? Yolanda Padron: Well, it happens a lot I think in Texas, right? We have, like you, you dispatch wind when you need it and you dispatch solar when you need it. And there’s a whole, I mean, the whole market. Behind the scenes that it’s for people a lot smarter than I am. But, uh, but yeah, I mean, you, you get, like, you’ll see sometimes wind turbines that are pitched slightly so they won’t generate electricity when it’s not needed, or they’re just free flowing when, I mean, it’s, it’s not necessarily to produce a lot of electricity or, you know, sometimes you’ll say, oh, you know what, I need this much. Energy from you at this moment, and so Sure. Switch. I mean, it’s, it’s literally a click of a computer. You turn it on, make sure the, that it’s dispatching energy, and then once you need it to be cut off, it’s cut off. Especially if it’s a co-located site, it’s a lot easier to make sure that you are [00:32:00] actually giving all the energy that you need to give in any given moment. Allen Hall: Because a grid reacts very quickly when things go wrong in the grid. It happens in seconds, and the only thing they can respond in seconds. Is renewables, inverter based resources. That’s the only thing you can respond. You can’t spool up a synchronous condenser to stabilize your grid in a couple of seconds. You may need a couple of hours typically to get that going. Isn’t this where we’re going? It because of the digital age and everything is on off so fast. If I had a data center that, you know, it collapses pulling a gigawatt, man, you need to be react almost instantaneously to that. The only thing that can do it today if they chose to do it is wind, solar, and battery. That’s it. In the digital age,  Yolanda Padron: I think it’s great. There was this one time, uh, a few years ago where, um, uh, a, a buddy who’s, who was a, a traitor for, you know, the, the, uh, energy markets in the [00:33:00] states. Um, he, he saw what was happening and he knew that he could. You know, he was controlling like wind, solar, and, and battery. And it was a co-located solar and battery site. And so he let them dispatch the solar for a bit and then he held off on the battery. And then the moment that he dispatched it was like he. Within like five minutes, it was $3,000. Something crazy like that. ’cause it was just like the mo, like he was just, everybody was amazed. Just the moment that he was like, amazing. Just like, well this is, this is why you do what, what you do. You know? Um, but yeah. Yeah, it’s, I mean, it’s a really, it’s a really interesting, interesting, for anybody that wants to read up on it. Like the, the market for that is really, really interesting.  Nikki Briggs: It does sound really interesting and like, I’ve been thinking a little bit about, um. The, the role of wind and, and you know, in Colorado we have a lot of high wind and then we have this [00:34:00] wildfire danger as well because of the drought. And so what happens when it gets really, really windy is they turn off the power ’cause they don’t wanna start a fire, a wildfire. So, um, so you know, here you want the wind so that you can generate the power, but then you can’t give it. So how do you store that and how do you, you know, like how do you manage that, you know? It’s a, it’s a tricky situation.  Yolanda Padron: Yeah. That’s where they’re co-locating. I think a lot of sites, there’s a lot of, I know there’s a wind farm in Arizona that’s really huge and they have a, a whole, they have a certain perimeter around it where they just really make sure that there’s nothing that can spread there. Like it’s, it’s just. Kind of barren land, so in case there is a wildfire or anything, ’cause it’s in a very dry area. Um, nothing will really happen to that in theory, you know, that has all the systems for the battery.  Nikki Briggs: What if the, what if the electric transmission lines are what, you know, causes the fire [00:35:00] because of the wind? The wind is causing those to break or to fall down. The poles fall down and then they cause a spark. And then they cause a fire. That’s what happened in Colorado a long time ago, a couple years ago.  Allen Hall: Same thing in California.  Nikki Briggs: So in order to protect from that, there’s like, it’s super windy. So they turn off the power. Allen Hall: Does it make it right? Right. Well this, this comes back to the infrastructure of the United States and how old that it is, and if you pay attention as you drive across the US you’ll realize that some of the. Towers and some of the infrastructure that you see on the side of the road. Dang, you’re a hundred years old and it doesn’t get replaced. It was never meant to be replaced. Or maybe they thought we were gonna be living on Mars in a hundred years, but basically it’s the same. Technology. It’s a wire on a kind of suspended up there in the air, and the wind moves around and it’ll burn and it wears out. It just wears out, right? Eventually you’ll just wear through that stuff, and we’re seeing that [00:36:00] across the United States. You’re seeing it in Europe, you see it in Spain, in other places where the infrastructure has just has a lot of age on it until we decide to do something new and refurbish it, like we refurbish the roads all the time. Uh, we’re gonna have trouble. We just are gonna have trouble in the states.  Yolanda Padron: Alan, as an electrical engineer, I do have a question. So would the forecasted generation needed by all these data centers and stuff, like with our current system, would we be okay with that? Or what kind of changes would we need to make just as a country in general?  Allen Hall: I think the problem with. A large data center as you’re seeing some of them being built on the east coast right now is one, trying to keep them up and running. Two, the infrastructure that are feeding and it’s old, right? So the transformers and all that. The things that don’t move, that are just planted on a concrete pad [00:37:00] that’s seem like they, they would never age, age, had fail. Eventually. So when you put a big demand on existing infrastructure that’s kind of powering old light bulbs and um, motors and things that are old and that have very well-known patterns, and you start putting these, uh, basically big digital power sinks that go up and down in in power usage. The grid can’t take that. It just won’t be able to take it at scale. It’ll take it for a while and we’ll figure out a way because electrical engineers tend to be pretty sy um, at how to make miracles out of, uh, uh, uh, of questionable things. That’s how we, how we do that, that’s why we get paid so much. But the, the, the problem is, is that at some point it’s gonna break, right? And, and the, the electrical grid in the US and the people that support that. Internally, I think we’re getting a little bit worried about it [00:38:00] and trying to figure out what we can do to keep the grid up and running. It’s a huge problem, huge problem, because when the grid was built back in the late 18 hundreds, early 19 hundreds, there were a lot less people, and somehow we managed to get to about 350 million people. All with the mobile phones and big screen TVs, and now electric vehicles and laptops, and blahdy, blahdy, blah. How this thing is still running is a miracle. It really is it. It obviously is Yolanda Padron: delamination and bottom line. Failures and blades are  Allen Hall: difficult problems to detect early. These hidden issues can cost you millions in repairs and lost energy production. C-I-C-N-D-T are specialists to detect these critical flaws before they become expensive burdens. Their non-destructive test technology penetrates deep into the label materials. To find voids and cracks. Traditional inspections completely. Miss [00:39:00] C-I-C-N-D-T Maps. Every critical defect delivers actionable reports and provides support to get your blades back in service. So visit cic ndt.com because catching blade problems early will save you millions. So G Renova was ordered by the courts just recently to stay at Vineyard Wind. Vineyard. Wind had. Filed a complaint that, um, GE was gonna leave the site, uh, off the coast of Massachusetts at the end of April. That obviously caused some concern with vineyard winds, so they went to court, sort of bypass the arbitration process. According GE went straight to court to get an injunction to prevent GE from moving on. Well, they have that injunction now, and GE has to stay on at least for about the next 60 days. If I read this right. Then there’s gonna be more court proceedings. GE is trying to get it back into arbitration where they can do some negotiation, but it’s all about big, big dollars.[00:40:00] The one thing that came out with Scott Straza, uh, Q1 discussion, which was uh, a phone call today, had to do with the completion of GE Ver Nova’s offshore wind projects, and when they could be complete. That includes sort of the doer bank projects in the uk, which I think are gonna wrap up sometime in 2027 to try to get those finished and vineyard wind, which they said was gonna be finished at the end of April. So from a GE Renova standpoint, I think they’re considering vineyard wind to be done at the end of the month and that’s gonna be their position. It was very odd. To hear the CEO of GE Renova talk about something that’s in litigation. ’cause usually that doesn’t happen. But if the company position is, Hey, we’re leaving at the end of April, we’ll see you a vineyard wind. That’s a problem. And let me explain a little bit of the details of this. GE Renova is based in Cambridge, Massachusetts, not that far away from vineyard wind, which [00:41:00] is also based in Massachusetts. So you have this corporate entity, which just. Opened an office in Cambridge. It’s really swanky place, not very far from where MIT and Harvard and all the, the elite universities are just outside of Boston. And then you have this vineyard wind project, which is important to the state of Massachusetts where they need that power to happen and they need it to be sustained and needed to run properly inside the state of Massachusetts. There must be huge discussions about this in the state government. Massive discussions about how these two entities have to work together for the next 20 years, and they are really at each other’s throats. That’s not the way you wanna start an offshore project. And Yolanda, you’ve been around some of these offshore projects. Is it always this tense between the OEM and the operator? Is, is this where all these projects end in some sort of disagreement and [00:42:00] separation?  Yolanda Padron: No, I think, I mean, from my experience. There’s usually someone at some point, and it’s usually, I think, I mean the. The owner, but you’ll stop and say, okay, I need to work with this person. I need to work with this company for the next X amount of years. I need to make sure that they give me the proper documentation once I need it. I need to make sure that they’re doing things in good faith. You know, I mean, if I can’t, it’s not like the technicians have like a camera strapped onto them to, so you can monitor every single blade repair, right? Like you need to make sure that they’re doing things right. Um, and not just patching things up because. Because they’re mad at you. Uh, so, so, no, I think it’s, it’s a little bit crazy to me that no one’s yielding as much. Allen Hall: I think GEs position is we’re gonna give vineyard all the manuals and the equipment would be up and running. You can find somebody to run it. You, you, you think that’s possible On a brand new turbine that [00:43:00] is only one other places on the planet that’s being run, which is over in the uk. Are you gonna be able to find people if GE walks off? Yolanda Padron: I mean, even if you can find people, once GE walks off, it’s like you, you need to be able to train your technicians. You know, like all of these, all of these projects are you, you need to have them in constant supervision. You need to make sure that everything’s working smoothly and you can’t just afford, I don’t know if we’re being really optimistic, like a month of no one touching those turbines. That’s crazy. Like anybody in the wind world is even onshore. Could you imagine if we just walked off a site and just let the wind turbines just be for a month? Like that’s, I mean, I don’t know, I, I’m not super, super well versed in exactly what they’re getting, but are they getting any sort of, at least like technical support? Allen Hall: I don’t think so. No. Yeah,  Yolanda Padron: no rock system, no. Nothing.  Allen Hall: If it all works out like GE wants it to, [00:44:00] no. You get the manuals. You get a, a, a nice, uh. Card in the mail saying Thank you for your business. And that’s it. It, that’s, I think that’s where it’s going.  Nikki Briggs: Doesn’t seem like a good way to, like, doesn’t seem like they’re stand standing behind their product or what they sold. Um, I mean, and it seems like there would be some downstream ramifications for other, other companies that want to buy ge.  Allen Hall: They don’t wanna be in that business. I, I think that’s one of the discussion points that never comes up when the quarterly calls is. Is GE gonna remain in the wind business? Because I think the answer to it is maybe how could a lot, I mean, you said on the financial side of some of these, uh, wind farms and paid attention to the details. If you were losing a billion dollars a year, how long would you be in that business?  Yolanda Padron: I mean, not very long. I think you’d have to change things to make it work. Um, yeah. I mean, I don’t know. I think, [00:45:00] I think it’s one of those things where they’re trying to. Find exactly where they fit into this business, if they still fit in at all. Uh, I really hope they don’t fully back out because of everyone that’s in operations that has GE products out there that’s really gonna need that support. Uh, I think especially for a vineyard’s sake, at the very least that they’ve are doing, that vineyard is doing a better job than a lot of the operators I know at making sure that. Everything you need within operations has been asked for since development and construction. Um, I’m not super, super optimistic about that. Just because like everyone has so many things to do that you don’t like if you’re in development, you don’t always have time to think about. Oh yeah, I really hope they give me the repair manuals in case there’s a lightning strike on the blade at R 20. You know, like it’s just, um, so it’s just. It’s, [00:46:00] it’s just gonna, it’s gonna be a very interesting case study. Whatever they end up doing, I think it’s gonna be something that will be worth following a bit more closely. We’ve seen, there’s been projects where, you know, day one, the OEM just backs off, but that was at least. They knew that, you know, the, the owner knew it two years in advance, and so they tried to get as many people as possible. There were to, to get on those turbines. There were of course mishaps and stuff, um, and it was more of a financial than an engineering decision. Um, but when the decision was made, people knew about it and people had time to act. I mean, people having a week to find, I. Someone to, to, to take care of every single aspect of their site is a little bit insane. Especially, I mean, [00:47:00]with the history of veneer, right? Like, come on, they had a, they had a blade break,  Allen Hall: right? There’s gotta be a lot of questions about the durability. There has to be Right. Even if, even if GEs figured it out, and I think they probably have, and then they’ve put a, a lot of money and time into resolving the issue. You still have to wonder. Is it right? And if you’re vineyard, I think that’s one of the questions is, is it right and could we operate it by ourselves without needing a lot of handholding from ge? Or paying GE more money than we already agreed to, which is probably what’s likely to happen, right? That GE iss gonna ask for more money if they can break the contract legally and renegotiate, that would be a smart move. I think they will try to do it. It’s unfortunate and it causes a lot of grief for a lot of people, but I think GE probably needs to renegotiate and probably Vineyard wants to renegotiate it too ’cause they both feel disgruntled at this point. Yolanda Padron: Yeah, and I think it’s really interesting ’cause we focus a lot on vineyard and just the [00:48:00] way that the OEM and the owner operated with each other just because it gets, it’s so close to such an important part of the country that gets so much PR all the time. It’s just, it kind of sets the mood for a lot of things that go on. So it’s, I mean, it’s not that we’re just picking a lot of vineyards, it’s just really, it’s a really important site just in general from where it is, right? It’s not like it’s in the middle of nowhere. It’s a very important place that gets a lot of attention  Allen Hall: that writes up another episode or the Uptime Wind Energy Podcasts. If today’s discussion sparked any questions or ideas, we’d love to hear from you. Reach out to us on LinkedIn and don’t forget to subscribe. So if you never miss an episode, if you found any value in today’s conversation, I mean any value, please leave us a review. And those reviews, we actually. Take and use to help create the next episode. So send us your notes, send us your comments. Send us what you would like us to discuss. Because the wind energy marketplace and [00:49:00] development are changing so rapidly, it sometimes it’s, it’s faster than we can keep up with. So please send us your ideas. Uh, and anytime you have a chance, please like and subscribe because it really helps other wind energy professionals discover the show. So for Nikki and Yolanda, I’m Alan Hall, and we’ll see you here next week on the Uptime Wind Energy Podcast.

Allen covers WindEurope Madrid, the ten-point Call to Action, Vestas CEO Andersen’s mission impossible warning, Siemens Gamesa’s narrowing losses, and CNC Onsite’s deals in Asia. Sign up now for Uptime Tech News, our weekly newsletter on all things wind technology. This episode is sponsored by Weather Guard Lightning Tech. Learn more about Weather Guard’s StrikeTape Wind Turbine LPS retrofit. Follow the show on YouTube, Linkedin and visit Weather Guard on the web. And subscribe to Rosemary’s “Engineering with Rosie” YouTube channel here. Have a question we can answer on the show? Email us! Good Monday, everyone. This past week… some big things happened in Madrid. Fifteen thousand wind energy people from every corner of the world walked into the same room. They came to talk. They came to listen. They came to ask for help. And they came to warn. The WindEurope Annual Event opened on Tuesday, the twenty-first of April, with six hundred twenty exhibitors and four hundred speakers across three days. Spain’s Prime Minister Pedro Sanchez gave the opening address. Fourteen national ministers stood on the stages, alongside European Commission Executive Vice President Teresa Ribera and European Commissioner for Energy Dan Jorgensen. And the message coming out of Madrid… was a single piece of paper. They called it the Madrid Call to Action. Ten points. Ten things European governments need to do… right now. Fast-track permitting, and treat wind as overriding public interest. Award at least eighty percent of wind auction bids… no more artificial scarcity. Repower aging wind farms and triple their output with fewer turbines. Multiply EU grid funding by five. Zero VAT on heat pumps and electric vehicles. And permanently cut taxes on electricity… because homegrown power should be the cheapest power. The framing was simple. From crisis… to confidence… in a decade. But while the speeches were polite… the panels were not. On Thursday afternoon, Vestas chief executive Henrik Andersen took the microphone, and he did not mince words. Andersen called it mission impossible. He told politicians to stop submitting wish lists for new auctions. He pointed at Denmark’s recent failed offshore auction… an auction that no developer would even bid on. And he pointed at countries trying to build a three-dimensional CSRD into the next tender. Then he delivered the line that quieted the room. If we don’t get this under control… we’ll be sitting here in five years… begging to keep the lights on. Now… while the warnings were echoing through Madrid… something quieter was happening on a balance sheet in Munich. Siemens Energy released preliminary second-quarter results on Wednesday, and then raised their full-year outlook. Group orders for the quarter came in at seventeen point seven billion euros… up almost thirty percent year on year. Net income for the full year is now expected to be around four billion euros, with Grid Technologies orders alone up forty-one percent. And the wind unit… Siemens Gamesa… their losses narrowed to forty-four million euros. A year ago, that number was two hundred forty-nine million. Still in the red. Still operating at a margin of negative one point seven percent. But the trend is clear. The Spanish wind unit is closing in on break-even. After years of crisis… after billions of euros in impairments… Siemens Gamesa is healing. Now back to Madrid. Because last Thursday, WindEurope published a different kind of paper. Not about money. Not about megawatts. About sabotage. Across Europe’s seas, energy infrastructure has become a target. Cables, substations, offshore platforms… spread across thousands of square kilometers of open ocean… difficult to protect. WindEurope Chief Executive Tinne Van Der Straeten said it plainly. The physical security of Europe’s wind turbines must be treated as an integral part of energy security… not as an afterthought. The policy paper calls for civilian protection, not military. Risk-based and proportionate, with clear cost allocation between government and industry. Wind farms now generate twenty percent of Europe’s electricity, and the North Sea countries have pledged three hundred gigawatts of offshore wind by twenty fifty. That is a lot of critical infrastructure… sitting in the open ocean. But here is where Madrid got uncomfortable. Vestas’ senior vice president stood on a panel Wednesday afternoon and offered a reality check. The EU has set a goal of twenty-two gigawatts of new wind installation every year through twenty thirty. What is the reality? The EU installed fifteen gigawatts in twenty twenty-five. Sixteen the year before. There is a gap… between political will, goals, and promises… and the reality we see in the market. The Madrid Call to Action wants to close that gap. The paper exists. The politicians have been told. Now… we wait. And while the speeches were happening in Madrid… a small Danish company was quietly opening doors in Asia. CNC Onsite… a wind sector subsupplier… signed two deals this month. One with Dutch firm WE4CE for Thai customer Cewa Plus, a deal that opens twelve Asian countries. The technology? A specialized machine that drills out the steel bushings holding a wind turbine blade to the hub, so they can be replaced without scrapping the blade. Repair on site. Save the blade. Extend its life. The second deal… a CNC milling machine sold into Japan for offshore monopile and foundation work. CEO Soren Kellenberger says the combined opportunity could deliver up to fifty million Danish kroner in revenue… roughly six point seven million euros. Not big numbers. Not yet. But while everyone in Madrid was talking about politicians… CNC Onsite was signing contracts in Bangkok and Tokyo. The number of wind turbines reaching the age where their blades need replacing… Kellenberger calls it… huge. So let us step back. In Madrid, fifteen thousand people gathered. A ten-point plan was published. A CEO warned of mission impossible. A trade association said the offshore turbines need physical protection from sabotage. In Munich, a balance sheet showed the wind business is healing… slowly, quietly, quarter by quarter. And in Bangkok, a Danish technician was teaching a Thai partner how to drill out a steel bushing. Six stories. One week. The wind industry showed up… asked for what it needed… and put the numbers on the table. The financial proof is starting to come. The political follow-through… we wait. And that is the state of the wind industry for the 27th of April… 2026. Join us for the Uptime Wind Energy Podcast tomorrow.

Vineyard Wind sues GE Renewables to block a walkout over $300M in withheld payments and defective blades. Plus Ørsted posts a $262M quarterly loss and shakes up its board. Sign up now for Uptime Tech News, our weekly newsletter on all things wind technology. This episode is sponsored by Weather Guard Lightning Tech. Learn more about Weather Guard’s StrikeTape Wind Turbine LPS retrofit. Follow the show on YouTube, Linkedin and visit Weather Guard on the web. And subscribe to Rosemary’s “Engineering with Rosie” YouTube channel here. Have a question we can answer on the show? Email us! Uptime316 Matthew Stead: [00:00:00] The Uptime Wind Energy Podcast brought to you by Strike Tape, protecting thousands of wind turbines from lightning damage worldwide. Visit strike tape.com And now your hosts. Allen Hall: Welcome to the Uptime Wind Energy Podcast. I’m your host Allen Hall, and I’m here with Matthew Stead and Rosemary Barnes who are in Australia. Before we get too far into this episode, I would like to mention that the UK US relationship has been very tense recently, as you have seen in the, in the news articles and on television. But there was one good news piece that just happened, which is the band Oasis just got inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. So that is trying to mend those relationships, bring the UK and US back together. In at least a musical sense. So I know Rosemary was watching that closely as the votes were counted. But, [00:01:00] uh, everybody in the UK is super thrilled about it as they should be. And all us Oasis fans can’t wait for the induction ceremony. In fact, we’re planning to go to Cleveland. They’ll go watch it if we can. We shall see now onto more important information this week. Vineyard, wind and GE are not getting along. And if you have been paying attention for the last two years, you would’ve noticed that there’s been a couple of tense moments. Well, uh, that wind project is a little bit up in the air because vineyard wind has filed suit against GE renewables to stop the turbine maker from walking away after GE sent a termination notice. Over a $300 million ish, uh, disagreement in unpaid bills. At the center of this dispute are defective blades, of course, that, uh, broke off in 2024 and caused a number of problems, uh, for GE and vineyard Wind is particularly a delay in the [00:02:00] project and ge having to fix pull blades off of turbines that were already installed and I think they ended up sending those back to France. Reading the lawsuit, it seems like GE did not repair those blades. They replaced those blades because, uh, they may not have been able to repair them or maybe is the amount of time it’s gonna take to repair them. You can repair almost anything made out of. Composite. Uh, but this is a big problem because, uh, if GE does walk away and they’re talking about walking away from this project at the end of April, vineyard, wind believes that the turbines are not ready to be operated, and they don’t have a way to operate those turbines. They don’t have the knowledge or the people because the people belong to GE that need to make some of these turbines operate. Even there’s even some question about if all the turbines are operating at the required [00:03:00]handover requirements. This is unique because I don’t think I’ve ever seen a wind turbine manufacturer leave before a wind site is finished. It must have happened before, but. It does put both sides in quite a pinch. Right.  Rosemary Barnes: Can I just jump, jump back to, to something that you said, um, that you can repair almost anything when it comes to composites? I would say that that doesn’t necessarily apply if your design was insufficient in the first place. And I mean the design for manufacturing in this case, I think that the, like computer model design worked fine, but obviously it was not as easy to manufacture or as possible to manufacture. With the correct quality as what they expected. It can’t have been so simple to just, just repair. That’s, um, that’s what I want to say. Like it, it’s obvious to me that if it was possible to repair, that would’ve been much easier than what they’ve ended up with, which I think is pretty foreseeable. Or most [00:04:00] engineers would probably have foreseen that if you, you know, put blades out there that, um, don’t meet your. Standard, um, quality control acceptance criteria that, you know, the consequence of that would be that it would be more likely to fail. So yeah, I think you can repair nearly anything on a standard blade that is possible to make correctly. But if you’ve got big quality problems, then it’s not, it’s, it’s not easy and it’s possibly not possible to, you know, just get, um, just get onto that in repair.  Matthew Stead: I, I think you’re both right. Because it all comes down to economics. So I think Alan’s statement, you know, things can be repaired. It just comes back to economics, doesn’t it?  Rosemary Barnes: U usually, yes. And like for your average, like if you’ve got a wind farm and you’ve got a blade with a big, a big repair, or you know, like a big defect right on the main laminate, that’s gonna require, you know, like a huge repair, taking the blade down and keeping it down for, you know, like three months while you rebuild like 20 meters [00:05:00] of laminate. Yes, that would be technically possible, but you wouldn’t because it would be so expensive. So us usually, like in 99% of cases, that would be it. That it’s not actually impossible to repair. It’s just very hard. But, you know, in these really huge blades and, you know, um, bearing in mind that I don’t, I don’t know the specific quality problems that they face, but, you know, just from my knowledge of composites, you can say what the challenging areas would be, but you know, a really big blade is gonna have a really thick laminate and, um, composites don’t like to have really thick laminates. When they cure, it’s usually an, an exothermic reaction, puts off heat, you know, like the temperature is changing and um, it works fine for thin laminates, but when it’s really thick you can get hot spots and cold spots and maybe it’s hard to get the resin to go all the way through evenly. But you know, imagine if you’ve got a really thick laminate and there’s a chunk of it that just didn’t get any resin in it. How are you gonna repair that? Like, I wouldn’t say impossible. I’m sure if the fate of the human race depended on it, then you would, you would make it work. But it’s [00:06:00] certainly very close to impossible.  Matthew Stead: Economically, it does not make sense.  Rosemary Barnes: You would probably have to make a few inventions. Along the way to be able to make it work as well. I think,  Allen Hall: I think I should read part of, and I don’t like reading these lawsuits, but this is informative in a sense that it provides some relative background as to what Vineyard Wind is thinking in some of the contract details that are involved here. So in June 4th, 2021, this is directly from the lawsuit, uh, vineyard Wind entered into A TSA with GE renewables in which. GE Renewables agreed to design, manufacture supply, install commission, and test the wind turbine generators for the vineyard wind project at a contract price of more than $1.3 billion. There you go. On the same day as an integral part of the commercial agreement, the parties entered into an SMA, uh, by which GE renewables agreed to maintain and service that wind turbine [00:07:00]generators for the first five years. Of operations of the project and guarantee that all wind turbine generators will operate at a 97% of production availability. Uh, this guarantee is central, is a central component of the commercial viability of the Vineyard Wind Project. So I would say so, right. Uh, at present, all of the wind turbine generators on the project have been installed. However, the wind turbine generators are not yet fully operational and are. Able to reduce power at only levels well below those intended under the contracts fundamental to the project’s commitment to Massachusetts to achieve full commercial operation. The project requires repair, commissioning, and maintenance of GE renewables, 62 proprietary wind turbine generators, and their component parts work that only GE renewables knows how to perform. So it sounds like Vineyard Wind has a five-year contract that GE ISS gonna operate these [00:08:00] turbines, and if they leave in a couple of weeks, vineyard wind really doesn’t have a backup plan. They may have. Were planning on a plan five years down the road where they could operate ’em, but to operate those turbines immediately when they haven’t, at least as. Indicated here may not be fully commissioned to providing the right amount of availability. That’s a huge problem for Vineyard. Huge.  Rosemary Barnes: It’s interesting to me that they’ve decided to withhold some money that I think everyone agrees that they owe that money to ge. But then there’s a dispute because Vineyard when says that GE owes them money for some other stuff That sounds like GE disputes. Um, it’s like if you have a problem. With your landlord, they always tell you, don’t, don’t withhold rent, because then they can, you know, that’s, that’s their out of the contract. Right? So it seems weird, like it’s a relatively small amount compared to what vineyard wind is risking. So. It seems to me like, are they, is this a mistake from them? Are they giving ge an out from this contract that’s gonna be [00:09:00] really hard for them to meet? It might be that GE knows what it would cost to entirely fix the wind farm and have it producing the way that it should. But, you know, let’s say in a worst case scenario, that means remaking every single blade in the um, in the wind farm. At the, at the French factory, you know, like that could be your, your worst case scenario. GE knows that that’s gonna cost more than what they’re ever gonna pay over the five years of, um, you know, the, uh, of missing the availability guarantee. So then it is worth, for them, the cost effective thing to do is to just walk away and they’re kind of, the amount that they’ll have to pay is limited. If I’m thinking fairness, it’s so unfair that vineyard wind would be stuck with this wind farm that they can’t really get to do anything. But if I think about how I see these disputes work out in the smaller versions of them that I’ve seen, it seems like vineyard wind actually probably is the one more likely to come out with a bad outcome from the way that they’re [00:10:00] choosing to play this right. Uh, because they, they risk not being able to operate at all. And they have potentially, like, I’m not a lawyer, I don’t, I don’t know about, you know, how likely it is that the 300 million, that their withholding will be enough for GE to walk away with without having to pay anything for, um, you know, not operating, uh, correctly over the next five years. But, um, you know, it just seems like it’s not so much money compared to the billions that are at stake. To risk that they will be left unable to operate the wind farm at all. You know, it’s just, uh, I don’t know. It seems risky.  Allen Hall: Let’s start with the kickoff of what happened and what vineyard wind is alleging happened from these, their perspective on it. It does provide some insight into all the things we talked about on the podcast for the last two years. We, we saw bits and pieces of it. According to vineyard wind, uh, GE Renewable [00:11:00] claims that it is owed quote amounts due unquote for milestone payments is, is contrary in in language to the TSA, so the turbine supply agreement put simply vineyard wind owes nothing to GE renewables because the TSA turbine supply agreement allows vineyard wind to withhold amounts. The project engineer determines that GE Renewable owes vineyard wind from milestone payments otherwise due under the contract. So what they’re saying is GE owes is a bunch of money. Yes, we do owe GE renewables money, but it’s in Vineyard Wind’s favor. So why would they send GE money? Um, those set off amounts are substantial because GE renewables caused catastrophic injury to vineyard wind by installing 68 defective blades on 24. Wind turbine generators resulting in two years of delay and over a billion dollars of damages. In July, 2024, one of the GE renewable offshore blades collapsed and fell into the waters off Nantucket resuscitating a massive environmental cleanup and requiring a six month [00:12:00] construction hiatus during which GE Renewable performed a root cause analysis, concluding that 68 of the 72 GE renewable. Blades installed at the project, nearly all manufactured by GE Renewable in Gaspay Canada, and they say nearly all, not all, nearly all were also defected because they were inadequately bonded together, the original blades were so poorly made that they were beyond repair. Indeed, the federal government required GE renewable to remove all the blades and to replace all gas bay blades with others manufactured at a different facility in Sherbrook, France. So that’s really the kickoff to all of this disagreement was the quality issues from Gas Bay. Uh, vineyard Wind goes on to say that GE Renewables and, and their CEO, Scott Straza, basically admitted to, uh, a, a serious, um. Overlook or quality issue? Quality escape, something of the [00:13:00] sort, uh, in some of the statements, which I, I remember him talking about  Rosemary Barnes: allegedly, in your opinion. Allen Hall: Well, and Scott Streek did say it. In fact, here’s, here’s what Scott Streek did say. Streek, uh, acknowledged that the blade failure and said, quote, we have identified a material deviation or a manufacturing deviation. In one of our factories that through the inspection or quality assurance process we should have identified. Because of that, we’re going to use our existing data and reinspect all of the blades that we have made for offshore wind and for context in this factory in Gus Bay, Canada, where the material deviation existed. That’s a quote. What happens now,  Rosemary Barnes: obviously I’ve never worked on anything that’s, this is the biggest example of, um, a, you know, a blade quality problem, a serial issue probably that’s ever happened in the wind industry. I’ve never worked on something this big, but I have worked on probably half a dozen small, small versions that are quite similar. Um. To this, but just on a, you know, a much, much smaller scale. And I will say that it never [00:14:00] feels fair what the owner of the wind farm, like, what the outcome is, never feels fair to the owner of the wind farm. Like when you’ve got a serial defect in, um, in play it like, and everyone suffers. It costs, it’s gonna cost the, um, you know, the manufacturer a lot of money. But I think that proportionally it is. Affects the owners more in nearly every case. It’s just there are some contractual things that you don’t end up with outcomes that feel, feel fair to anybody that, um, you know, would take a casual look at it. So I don’t think that an outcome that feels fair is probably likely for, for vineyard wind. Um, and I guess it all just comes down to whether or not GE agree that they owe that 800 million or whatever the figure is. Um, or if a court finds that they owe it. Because surely the contract doesn’t say that Vineyard wins engineer at any time can just, or project manager can at any time decide [00:15:00] that, um, GE owes the money and so they don’t have to pay. That obviously wouldn’t be a very, um, nice contract for GE to sign. So there’s gotta be some more nuance to it other than. That our project manager says, you owe us money so we’re not paying. And then, you know, you have to continue. Like, I, it’s probably impossible for us to, without, um, you know, having access to all of, all of the documents and the legal degree to understand it. Probably, probably hard for us to Yeah. Come up with a, a reasonable conclusion.  Allen Hall: It does make you think, usually the progression is dispute. Whatever contractually is obligated in the beginning happens. And so if there’s someone who decides what pot of money goes where, that, that’s usually the first step. Second step is usually arbitration in the us. I’d be surprised if they haven’t gone through at least an attempt at arbitration. And then once arbitration breaks down, then you go into the courts, which is clearly where they’re at now you’re, you’re at the highest level that you can be in terms of legal proceedings to try to sort this matter out. And I’m sure both sides. Do not want to be in front of a [00:16:00] courtroom if they can avoid it. So there’s a much more to come about this. I, I think the other operators, uh, GEs this is, is this GEs only? Yeah. This is GEs only wind farm offshore in the us So this is it. But I would imagine that the other, uh, operators in offshore wind in the US or. Being very careful word through contracts and how this is proceeding.  Rosemary Barnes: That’s something else I think about this case is that it’s going to be like the GE are the ones who have more at stake in terms of reputational harm. I would’ve thought then. Um, so. Yeah, that’s obviously a consideration that they’ve, they’ve gotta have, it isn’t, regardless of where the facts are, it’s not a good look. Right. Um, to be seen, to be walking away from a wind farm. And it probably would make other people considering big expensive GE wind farms to be like, oh, you know, are we actually gonna get across the line with this? Or is there a risk that they just, you know, throw a tantrum towards the end and threaten to walk away and we have to renegotiate [00:17:00] everything. So, um, I guess that there’s a, yeah, there’s always just the perception. Is as important in a lot of ways to what the actual facts are.  Matthew Stead: The thing I find is, um, I mean this is largely a legal thing, isn’t it? You know, we, we’ve agreed that it’s, with the lawyers, it’s a largely a legal thing. The, the sort of topic that I’m interested in is, um, like the example of you buy a car, you know, you buy a Toyota, um, you expect to be able to maintain it. You expect to be able to run it and get a serviced by a Toyota, you don’t expect in the first year to take your Toyota to Ford and get them to fix it in the first year. The bigger issue is the turbine supplier agreement does not actually allow the turbine to be operated without the OEM, so no one knows. No one knows how to run it. So for me, it’s a massive industry challenge, access of data, access of how to run a turbine. If the OEM is no longer there, so I think hopefully [00:18:00] this can have rama bigger ramifications for the industry that operators and owners can actually run the assets they own.  Rosemary Barnes: Well, there are companies that will come in and pull out your control system of your, you know, your turbine. If it, you know, if you, um, if you don’t wanna work with them anymore or if the company went bankrupt, then there are companies that will rip it out and put a new one in. It’s not, not saying that that’s like an easy, cost effective thing to do and probably not gonna get the same, um, performance as, as you originally did. But that’s what happens if you are, um, you know, your turbine manufacturer goes bankrupt and they just don’t exist to support anymore. Sometimes people have to resort to literally pulling out the whole control system and starting again. Not easy. When it’s something as big and new as this one obviously  Matthew Stead: isn’t the better answer that when you buy something, you actually buy the information to actually run it. Rosemary Barnes: I don’t fully agree [00:19:00] though, because. It’s like, um, o often what you say, oh, you know, like this would be good. Like the one common thing is people say, oh, you know, like it’s planned obsolescence. People, engineers plan design things to fail so that you’ll need to replace them. And I think that that does, that does happen again in like consumer, consumer products. Like, um, yeah, like your, your battery isn’t really designed to last for 10 years in your, your phone the same way that it is in an electric car. Um, more than 10 years in the case of an electric car. Um. But it’s not. It’s not what happens in industrial scale equipment. You are mostly worried about getting the price point right. And if you want something to last longer, if you want something that anybody can come in and fix it easily, it costs more to engineer like that and usually like a a lot more. So it’s not just people like evil engineers or evil. Um. Evil management at these, at these companies.  Allen Hall: I already get to evil engineers. Rosemary Barnes: No, people think it is. People think it’s evil. Engineers like purposely designing bad products to [00:20:00] um, make money, which I actually do think that they do with consumer products. Some of the time. Um, but when it comes to like industrial equipment, I, I don’t think that that’s the main, the main thing that planned obsolescence is not, is not a major factor here. It’s about trying to get the price point competitive to make sales. And if you want to get better engineering, you, you will, you will pay for it.  Matthew Stead: I got a call with someone today that, which is on this topic. So, you know, we, we are a sensor company and, um, we pro we provide results, okay? So if we actually provided the raw data that we measure, it actually allows people, other people to reverse engineer our products. So we don’t generally provide the raw data, so we provide the end outcome. Because it means that people can’t copy what we do. It means we can actually charge a lower price. So actually there’s a lot of logic to, you know, having, you know, [00:21:00] all these ways of engineering a product to, you know, give a better outcome to the end customer. Allen Hall: I know Rosie doesn’t like Elon Musk, but this one of the things that Elon Musk did with Tesla at least, I don’t know about the other companies that he runs, but with Tesla, they went off and. Made patents, right? So they applied for a bunch of patents and received them and then just made them open use. And the reason they did that was so somebody couldn’t jump the patent line, create a patent about some car related electric thing, and prohibit Tesla from doing. And so Tesla has always had the need to create patents that cost them, I’m sure, a, a pretty penny, just so they can avoid. Patent conflicts and lawsuits going forward. And it’s sort of the same thing, right? That the evil engineer bit, that’s the evil engineer bit I, that I don’t like is that when you get these crazy patent things happening out there that are just there to collect money and not do any of the work,  Rosemary Barnes: and some of the patents are. Absolutely crazy. Like when you do a patent search and it’s like you’re [00:22:00] reading the language and like it sounds like they’ve just patented the concept of a wheel, you know? And then you’ve gotta try and figure out like what’s actually going on. Yeah. In  Matthew Stead: our world, someone has a patent around the Doppler shift. Allen Hall: How can you have a patent on Doppler shift? That’s crazy.  Matthew Stead: It’s fundamental physical. You know, there’s a shift in frequency of a sound, um,  Allen Hall: based on speed  Matthew Stead: and yes, sound comes from a blade and there’s a doppler shift.  Allen Hall: That’s real. I, I, I guess, uh, see, that’s, that’s, that’s the craziness of that. See, you should have thought about. The idiots that were gonna do that and then write a patent about Doppler shift.  Rosemary Barnes: It’s really annoying because it’s like, you know that it’s not gonna be, I mean, a lot of them you are like 99% sure it’s not gonna be possible for them to defend that if it gets challenged. But it’s like, to what extent do we trust that, you know? Um, so you still usually end up steering around it anyway, but it, it really gets in the way of elegant engineering solutions. All these. Bizaro patents that are out there like clogging up [00:23:00] the design landscape.  Allen Hall: That happened recently. Right? Rosa? You had and I were talking about a particular patent. I thought had it existed and it did at one point exist and I. Rosie said, I don’t, I don’t see it anymore. So I did some search on it. Yeah, it got pulled off. Uh, the list of valid patents. It was a lightning related thing.  Rosemary Barnes: And you were complaining that it was so obvious that they should never have been able to patent it, but yeah, and somebody obviously said, said something at some. I don’t think patents are not the best way to protect an idea anyway. Right? Like nobody, if you, if you’ve got a new technology idea and you’re relying on a patent to protect other people from copying it, it’s not the best idea. I do work with a lot of small inventors who are like, oh, I’ve got a patent application, and they think it means something, that it doesn’t. They think, oh, you know, patent was approved. That means it works. It means it’s a good idea. It doesn’t mean any of those things for like small, outside of big companies. I, I think it’s super rare that you would get more. You would get a positive return [00:24:00] on. On filing and maintaining a patent in all the countries that, um, are relevant  Allen Hall: as wind energy professionals, staying informed is crucial, and let’s face it difficult. That’s why the Uptime podcast recommends PES Wind Magazine. PES Wind offers a diverse range of in-depth articles and expert insights that dive into the most pressing issues facing our energy future. Whether you’re an industry veteran or new to wind, PES Wind has the high quality content you need. Don’t miss out. Visit PES wind.com today. Sted posted a net loss of 1.7 billion Danish groner, roughly $262 million for the third quarter, as the cost of battling us anti win policies continues to mount the CEO. Rasmus abo, uh, says the company is about. One year into a turnaround plan, uh, that’s set to [00:25:00] run through beginning of 2028, and that the medicine is starting to work. Uh, one major strategic change. Ted will enter partnerships on new projects far earlier, and so it will never again, uh, be forced into damaging late stage divestments The company maintained its full year EBITDA and, uh, guidance of, of, of. 24 to 27 billion Danish kroner. That’s a good bit of money. And the sale of a 50% stake in the horn, C3 to Apollo Global Management for a billion dollars is already under. Well, at least in progress, but there’s a lot more behind the scenes here. Sted had an basically an investor meeting and a shareholder meeting, and, uh, they have three new board members. They let go of, if I remember correctly, three board members that were [00:26:00] employees that they just, uh, had reductions in forces that happen to affect board members, which is very odd. Very, very odd in my. Humble opinion, having watched number of boards for a long time, usually don’t remove board members in that fashion, but there does seem to be a, a, a more emphasis on the board to help, uh, the CEO of stead get through some of these tumultuous times and maybe a little bit of concern about the, the, the way the board was constructed to get or sit back into profitability sooner rather than later. This is a big deal up in Denmark. Of course, stead is the power company for Denmark. This has implications worldwide, though, uh, what stead does everybody else follows. And the one thing that, uh, that was sort of in dispute before the shareholder meeting was EOR at one point, was. At least contemplating a board seat. And then right [00:27:00] before the meeting they backed off and said, no, it’s fine. We don’t want a board seat. Maybe they had some sense of what the changes were gonna be made to the board, so they felt better about it. But orsa is not out of the rough seas at the moment. There’s a couple more years of, of growing pains and learning some lessons that they wish they didn’t have to learn. I guess that’s the way I would look at it. What implications does this have on the greater offshore wind community? Is stead taking basically a step back and, and trying to focus. Herding offshore wind, or is it just other, another companies are gonna step into that, that space that Sted may have previously occupied? Matthew Stead: I think what you’re talking about, um, Alan, is, is all logical. I mean, you know, you can’t have everything. So, um, as in you can’t, you know, getting late to a project and expect it to go well, um, spreading risk is a good thing, you know, so the whole, you know, [00:28:00] doing it fast. Doing it cheap and doing it well. Um, you, you, you can’t have all of those things at once. So actually what they’re talking about, I think is entirely logical. Um, so yeah, I think if they can lead the way that way and, and you know, I’ve come from, um, some other industries like construction and they, they spread the risk across multiple. Organizations that know what they’re doing. So the idea of joint ventures where you get the best of both worlds makes complete sense to me. Allen Hall: Do they start making different decisions on projects based upon their financial stake at the moment? A And more importantly, when they start looking for offshore wind projects, are they likely to hook up with Vestas? Because I, I think that’s where this is all going.  Matthew Stead: Pick a horse.  Allen Hall: Yeah, they’re gonna pick a horse. I, I mean, that’s the best, best way to think about it. They’re gonna pick a horse and gonna stick with them. Instead of having, uh, a lot of options and playing one against the other, I could see alignment happening, uh, versus being the [00:29:00] one offshore, of course. And or instead being a big player. There is, is that the combo that’s gonna push the industry forward? Rosemary Barnes: Yeah, maybe. I mean, I think it’s more similar to what Chinese manufacturers are doing, a lot more vertical integration. You can, um, yeah, save, save a lot of money by doing that. It is. Uh, you know, not always ideal from other points of view. And it might be nice to have a, you know, a thriving technology ecosystem of, you know, different manufacturers competing with each other and, you know, making better products. So, um, yeah, I don’t know, uh, have sit on the fence on this one for what’s good. I do feel really bad for osted though, like in terms of the, the. Shocks that they’ve had over the last couple of years. I, I don’t think most people would’ve foreseen that it would be so risky to try and expand into the US like everybody. A few years ago, everybody thought that that was the next big profitable frontier in offshore wind. And [00:30:00] I don’t think that many people would’ve foreseen things going the way that they did.  Allen Hall: Is it the result of large industrial projects take time and that in that timeframe, five, 10 years, that the world changes so much? You can’t. Accurately predict what the outcome will be and or it just got caught up in it.  Rosemary Barnes: Yeah, I think that’s actually one of the themes you guys have read, um, how big things get Done Right by Ben. Um, that’s one of the things that he mentions that the quicker that you can do the execution phase of your project, like spend plenty of time planning it, but when you’re actually committed, work super fast because the longer that you’re working, the more your chance of a, a black swan. Um, a Black Swan event be, you know, a government that turns out to, you know, want to, you know, tear up contracts and you know, do all these other unprecedented stuff. You know, if you’ve got projects that take 10 or more years to build, then there’s just like a lot more risk of something like that happening. And I think that, um, you know, like in some ways that’s just one of the inherent weaknesses of [00:31:00] wind energy in general, but offshore wind especially is that it does actually take a long time to get through all of the things that you need to do to. Um, to complete a project. And so it’s just, yeah, a lot more chance for, you know, the government will change two or three times probably in, um, you know, during a project. How many wars can start, how many, you know, pandemics. Can there be you? Like, the longer that you’re going, you might think none of those things could be predicted and that can’t, but you can predict that those sorts of big things happen. And the longer that you, um, are exposed and the more of them that you’re probably gonna face. And I think that, yeah, like something like a solar farm is much quicker to roll out. Um, battery projects are much quicker to roll out. So it’s just like that, those are benefits of those technologies compared to wind. You just have to kind of accept that that’s one of the weaknesses of this, this industry that we’re in. Allen Hall: Is it a benefit to have solar because it can deploy very quickly, or, or is it just [00:32:00] smarter to have. More wind turbines of smaller megawatt outputs because you can manufacture ’em at scale quicker, and so the economies of scale don’t really matter so much. This is an argument we’ve been making for months now, that when you start selecting a single turbine, which doesn’t have any history, and it’s a big one, and it takes a long time to produce, you are really setting up yourself to fall into that window where something can go wrong. Versus just stamping out two or three megawatt turbines and going like crazy. It just seems so much less risky.  Rosemary Barnes: I think that I definitely agree with you for onshore and then for offshore. Probably also, like I don’t think it’s necessarily go for a smaller turbine. It’s just don’t go for the brand new one. Like that’s why I don’t understand how many people are like so obsessed with this, you know, small, small amount of improvement that they get from the very biggest. Turbine, but I don’t think that they realize the amount of technical risk. And I think that it gets, it’s getting [00:33:00] more and more like the, um, technology increment is getting more and more the bigger that we go. It’s not that like, oh, we’re learning how to do this, this, well, it’s, it’s the opposite that, you know, like every, um, increment up in size as an exponentially more like larger number of problems, technical problems that have to be solved. And, um, I think that, yeah, that’s. That’s something people don’t factor in. Allen Hall: Is it the gold rush problem where the miners were trying to hit that pocket of gold and spending all their time trying to find this gold, find this gold. In the meantime, a lot of them obviously broke, and the people that made money in the gold rush or the stores that sold the pickaxes, if you, you making a pickaxes, you have a customer page, you can just sell those things in. Levi’s, be the other one, right? So they’re selling genes of pickaxes to the miners. Guess who won in that battle, right? Levi’s.  Rosemary Barnes: But what’s the analogy with win two of the pickax manufacturers,  Allen Hall: the people that make the two megawatt machines? In my opinion, that’s gonna be who the pickaxes are because you don’t have to think about it. If [00:34:00] you can talk to operators of the United States today and you say, what turbine would you like to buy over again? And they will almost all tell you, GE one point fives. Almost all of them. And you go, yeah. Oh, okay. I understand it because it’s a machine. It’s pretty simple. But it does work. And it is, it is a true warhorse turbine. And some of the vested ones are the same. Simpson Siemens turbines are very similar, right? Uh, but in today’s world, when we’re talking about 15, 20 megawatt turbines, I just think, man, you gotta be careful doing that just because of the time it takes to develop it and produce it, and. Work at all the kinks? Uh, Rosemary, I think you’re right about that.  Rosemary Barnes: I think the issue is that, um, when you’re deciding whether to develop a project or not, it really depends a lot on what the spreadsheet tells you your return is going to be. And, um, you know, a bigger turbine with, uh, you know, like larger output over its lifetime, longer lifetime. Those are all gonna give you really good. Spreadsheet numbers, but what’s not in the spreadsheet [00:35:00] is, oh, you know, you’ve actually increased your risk of having to wait two years while they replace every single blade in this, um, in this wind farm. Oh, by the way, yeah, you’re gonna be dealing with, um, you know, twice as many repairs and your, um, downtime is not gonna be 2%, it’s gonna be 3.5% or, or something. You know, those, those sorts of things, I don’t think, uh, adequately captured in the, the spreadsheets whe say when you, whether you should or shouldn’t develop a new project.  Matthew Stead: So, so the evil engineering should be making decisions, not the evil lawyers.  Allen Hall: The financial people always make the decisions, right? The insurance companies make the decisions.  Rosemary Barnes: Don’t think there’s a lot of engineering into, um, input in the, the very first stages. But I also think that if you put in the reality, like most engineers, I think are a little bit pessimistic because our job is to see what problems exist at, you know, and then solve them ideally. Um, but at least part of it, like our brains are wired to look for problems, right? That’s, um, that’s a necessary part of the job, in my opinion. But if you were, you know, like pessimistic in your assumptions in the [00:36:00] spreadsheet, you would probably the majority of the time say, don’t make this project. The return is not very good. Allen Hall: Well, that would be a smart move, right? Yeah.  Rosemary Barnes: Yeah. So I don’t actually think you probably should have too many engineers in in involved.  Matthew Stead: Yeah. But what is the CEO incentivized by is the, yeah, so it, it comes back to, you know, what, what, what drives the project And it’s not just engineering.  Allen Hall: That wraps up another episode of the Uptime Wind Energy Podcast. If today’s discussion sparked any questions or ideas, we’d love to hear from you. Reach out to us on LinkedIn and don’t forget to subscribe. So if you never miss an episode and if you found value in today’s conversation, please leave us a review. It really helps. For Rosie and Matthew, I am Allen Hall and we’ll see you next week on the Uptime Wind Energy [00:37:00] Podcast.

The crew discusses the White House missing its offshore wind appeal deadline, France’s 12 GW tender with restrictions on Chinese permanent magnets, and WOMA 2027 planning. Sign up now for Uptime Tech News, our weekly newsletter on all things wind technology. This episode is sponsored by Weather Guard Lightning Tech. Learn more about Weather Guard’s StrikeTape Wind Turbine LPS retrofit. Follow the show on YouTube, Linkedin and visit Weather Guard on the web. And subscribe to Rosemary’s “Engineering with Rosie” YouTube channel here. Have a question we can answer on the show? Email us! The Uptime Wind Energy Podcast brought to you by Strike Tape, protecting thousands of wind turbines from lightning damage worldwide. Visit strike tape.com. And now your hosts. Allen Hall: Welcome to the Uptime Wind Energy Podcast. I’m your host, Allen. I’m here with Rosemary Barnes, who is in Australia, and our newest guest is Nikki Briggs, who is the new CCO of Weather Guard Lightning Tech. Welcome to the show, Nikki.  Nikki Briggs: Thank you. Nice to, nice to be here.  Allen Hall: So there’s the full docket, and Nikki’s gonna get indoctrinated today to the podcast, and she’s gonna be holding on tight because we have a really, uh, very controversial podcast. I think once Rosemary gets in here and starts talking about. Offshore wind. And I wanna lead off this week ’cause it is a big deal, although not many people are talking about it, that, uh, the White House missed a deadline to file an [00:01:00] appeal against all the offshore wind farms in the United States. And the feeling was, is that there was gonna be an appeal and they’re gonna push to slow down those projects or cancel those projects. And obviously, uh, one of the purchasers of one of the sites decided to sell it back to the US for about a. Billion US dollars, but the administration missed a key deadline for appeals, uh, which may indicate that they have other things to do besides fight offshore wind Now. The question really remains is, is this going to continue on that nothing is going to happen. Uh, hopefully all the wind projects that are being built at the moment will complete and we’ll be providing power to all the onshore locations, particularly up and down along the East coast. But, uh, there’s still a long way to go here. Rosemary, I know there’s been a lot of concern about what’s happened in the United States on offshore [00:02:00] wind for several months now. You think this is gonna be just a change of direction because there’s other things happening in the world.  Rosemary Barnes: To me, it just sounded like too hard to, unlikely to actually succeed and kind of keeps on drawing attention back to the issue. So better to just kind of let it quietly fade away and not talk about it anymore. Allen Hall: And there is a financial emphasis for those companies that have these wind farms because if they can get their projects done. They get paid sooner. They can produce power, obviously they’re gonna get paid sooner. So there is a big incentive to push, push, push, push. And a lot of the projects are delivering power right now. And I think the, the biggest one, which is uh, dominion Energy’s Project of Coastal Virginia, offshore Wind is doing that. So. All these wind projects that are kinder in a way I think are going to finish, which is gonna be a, a big relief to a lot of the states.  Rosemary Barnes: I don’t wanna talk about us, um, politics because I am not living there. But don’t you have midterms coming up and potential [00:03:00] for the situation to dramatically change? Like, my understanding is that the expectation is that there will be. More, um, democratic involvement in, in decision making after the midterms. And so surely, you know, like if they don’t, if they’re not acting now, then things are likely to be easier from here on out. Is that, is that a correct interpretation of what’s going on over there?  Allen Hall: Not correct. And Nikki, you can jump in here too. Congress can change and does every two years there’s elections in the US and so the full House of Representatives is voted in or out. So all 435 members of the House of Representatives have an election, but about a third of the Senate has an election. So the Senate doesn’t change as dramatically as the House does, but, uh, for everything that’s been codified into law, which happened a year and a half ago, uh, the executive branch can kind of do what they [00:04:00] want there. So there will be very little that Congress can do. Once a law is a pass and the executive branch can continue on,  Rosemary Barnes: it’s two year terms for your house of reps. Allen Hall: Yeah. It’s two years terms. Yeah.  Rosemary Barnes: That’s not very long. That’s not very good job security.  Allen Hall: It was never meant to be  Rosemary Barnes: in school. About a thousand years ago, I learned that, um, the Australian government is, is, is largely based on a combination of um, UK and. US government basically. But I think it’s a lot closer to the us. Um, and yeah, we have, I, I think we have not, we haven’t got fixed terms, but it’s usually about every three years and yeah, you lose a few, a few months, but we don’t, we don’t do the big song and dance about it that you do with all of the, um, pre-selection and all that stuff. We don’t do that. So our, our system is a lot quicker. Um, so yeah, I just wonder like how, how do you actually govern when you have to spend half of your time worried about, um, getting in and then you can only make plans for basically one year [00:05:00] ahead or two years ahead, like at the absolute maximum.  Allen Hall: That’s the problem with House of Representative is you nailed it right on the head, which is they’re constantly fundraising and trying to get to the next election. Two years is a short amount of time anymore. They didn’t used to do it like that, where the last six months, maybe a year were campaign time, but pretty much once they get an election over, which happens in November, they’re already campaigning for the next one. So it does lead to a lot of chaos where things don’t happen in the House of Representatives like. They used to maybe 20, 25 years ago. It’s changed dramatically and I don’t think Australia has that same issue weirdly enough. Although I would say you’re becoming more like the US in a lot of ways. That’s not one of them.  Rosemary Barnes: We’ve got some, there’s some things in place, like one of the advantages of basing our system on other countries as we could take. Take the bits that worked and see what, what we could already see what didn’t really work and um, you know, try to, try to take it, um, try to take care of that, ensure that it couldn’t happen. [00:06:00] So  Allen Hall: the offshore wind piece in America rolls into other offshore wind, uh, across Europe in that, uh, although US is reconsidering offshore wind in some sense. Europe is not. In fact, uh, France is getting very active. So you remember the France has been trying to launch, uh, offshore wind tenders for about two years. So you keep hearing France is gonna go to offshore wind, and then it didn’t really happen. Well, that political gridlock is, uh, over really how to pay for the renewables, uh, and how they’re gonna try to finance this thing. Meanwhile, uh, France has, uh. Less than what? Two gigawatts of offshore wind operating against a, a national target of about 15 gigawatts by 2035. Uh, so there’s a lot of catching up to do the 12. They just had a 12 gigawatt package. They announced where, uh, they, they’re [00:07:00] attempting to really catch up all at once, uh, but buried inside of this tender. Is a supply chain rule, which is very unique. So coming outta Scotland and all the things that happen with Ming Yang in Scotland, France is doing something very similar. France is limiting the percentage or the quantity of permanent magnets that can come from China. So France is saying, Hey, they don’t wanna get locked into an offshore, offshore wind supply chain that involves China specifically for, but they’re probably the most important ingredient, which is. Permanent magnets. The Netherlands is moving ahead also and has offered two one gigawatt offshore wind farms, and it’ll be permitting those pretty quickly. So all of a sudden, the offshore wind effort for some of the countries that have been quiet in Netherlands in particular, and then France, all of a sudden probably ’cause of what’s happening in the. The straight in the Middle East have decided to speed up their offshore wind [00:08:00] projects. Is this gonna be the right move? Do you think they’re gonna stick with this process of, of completing these projects or is this a spur of the moment decision that they’re gonna change their minds later on in the next year or two once things calm down to the Middle East? Rosemary Barnes: Yeah. I mean, if it is a, a knee jerk response to the. Specific right now problem and doesn’t seem very well advised because it’s gonna be years before they actually see any electricity entering their grid. I mean, France is a bit different to other European countries ’cause they’ve got so much nuclear and in general, uh, I think with the exception of like the year before last, they had that summer where it was really hot. They had heat waves and they had to shut down a lot of. Nuclear power plants because the cooling water was too hot. They, they couldn’t, they couldn’t put it back into the river. And, um, yeah, uh, river levels were too low in some cases. So in, in that year, they did have to import energy. Um, but in general, their energy exporters. So I don’t, I, I would be surprised if this [00:09:00] was in direct response to, you know, that I don’t think they have an electricity crisis right now. Um, and, uh, yeah, I think it’s probably more of a long-term plan.  Allen Hall: Are they gonna force the OEMs to build product in country? GE already has an offshore wind blade factory in France. And, uh, they can get a lot of components in Europe for sure. You could actually dictate what percentage of the wind turbine is built in France and what is built in Europe and what’s gonna be left to be imported in from China. You think this is where everybody is headed?  Rosemary Barnes: Yeah. I mean, I think it is. Smart move to make sure that you don’t have one single country locking down any critical part of your supply chain. So I’ll agree with that. I haven’t seen the exact wording, but it’s not like it’s just banned that anything comes from China. I mean, that would be a good way to make sure that you didn’t ever get a timely, uh, a project completed in time. Um. So, you know, that makes sense. But, you know, if no one [00:10:00] project can use a hundred percent Chinese magnets or I, I don’t know the wording, maybe they’re allowed to buy, um, the rare Earth materials from China and then turn them into magnets locally. I don’t, I don’t know what the wording is, but, um, it is going to require that, you know, some new manufacturers start up and I just wonder what kind of support they’re gonna provide for that and what kind of guarantees, because it’s not, um. So straightforward to just start up a new manufacturing facility for something that has never been made in that, in that area before. Um, you know, there’s a lot of risk and hard to get financing. They’re gonna want to have some, um, guarantees from the government or some support to, you know, make sure that the risk benefit is worth it.  Allen Hall: I think that’s probably the most important part of this, is the business aspect. You can’t spool up a 20 year business. In a year that’s hard to do and you’re not gonna do it if the supply chain can willy-nilly switch to an external supply chain to China, for example. So if you do set up [00:11:00] something complicated in France, I would almost bet that they would have to pass something in law and lock it in before you see a lot of investment happening that way. Similar things happen in the UK really is uh, with all the offshore wind growth and wanting to build turbines in the country. They’re gonna have to put some barriers in to keep the Chinese out, which they’re obviously doing  Rosemary Barnes: or provide direct support. They don’t necessarily need to make it a law. I think like the way we would do it in Australia is that the government would either co-invest or they would, you know, underride a loan or um, you know, guarantee revenue or something, something like that, to make all the pieces fall into place. I don’t think, um, law is the only way to do it.  Allen Hall: France obviously is gonna be able to choose from a couple of wind OEMs. Where do you think they’ll go is It’s pretty much right now, I guess it’s Siemens and Vestas for sure. I’m not even sure GE is offering a offshore wind turbine at the moment. Does France [00:12:00] have a Siemens or Vestas stake at the minute? Rosemary Barnes: Not that I know of, but what’s happening to the um, Bel Factory? The GE Blade Factory? That was. They were making blades for hall aids, which is the troubled platform that kind of turned them off. Offshore wind altogether. Um, yeah, I don’t, I don’t know what’s happened to that one.  Allen Hall: Remember that GE sold the LM factory, what up in Poland and Vestas ended up buying that? I wonder if something similar happened here.  Rosemary Barnes: Uh, yeah. I dunno. I need to, we should have, we should have looked it up before we started recording.  Allen Hall: The thing about this podcast is that we start putting the puzzle pieces together. Before the, the pieces are out on the table. And when you see the way that GE has really slowed down offshore, obviously they talked about it a number of times that they don’t like the offshore business and would like to finish vineyard wind and all the commitments they have and then pause until they can make sure they’re gonna make money on offshore wind. Vestas is going crazy and has made a lot of sales, [00:13:00] and I know Siemens is trying to get back into that offshore market. So you really have two players. If you are not gonna choose a Chinese turbine, you see image and you have Vestas. But onshoring, that work is an obvious, uh, French move, I think just like it was in the uk. Rosemary Barnes: I mean, assuming that they are not gonna be choosing, uh, Chinese manufacturers, given that they’re trying to move away from that, um, yeah. Complete dominance, but I mean, why couldn’t Ming Yang or someone supply turbines but just, you know, get their, their magnets from a local supplier instead? I mean, it’s very common that, you know, like European manufacturers, if they wanna sell in India, then they have to have a certain local, um, you know, amount of local manufacturing. So. Why wouldn’t a, a Chinese company do the same thing? So, yeah, I don’t think they’ve only got two choices, but. Those will be the obvious ones.  Allen Hall: As wind energy professionals, staying informed is crucial, and let’s face it difficult. That’s why the Uptime podcast [00:14:00] recommends PES Wind Magazine. PES Wind offers a diverse range of in-depth articles and expert insights that dive into the most pressing issues facing our energy future. Whether you’re an industry veteran or new to wind, PES Wind has the high quality content you need. Don’t miss out. Visit PES wind.com today. So Rosemary, after the successful WMA 2026 event in Melbourne, in which I know I mispronounced, but you’re just gonna have to let it go. There’s been a a ton of inquiries about WMA 2027 and I. I’m thinking, man, we just finished moment 2026. You ready for 2027? The answer is yes, we need to go.  Rosemary Barnes: I think it’s because the, um, certain other Australian wind energy events are spamming everyone’s inboxes with like multiple emails a day, months out. It’s got everyone thinking, gee, this conference is super annoying. Thought about that [00:15:00] non annoying conference that I went to.  Nikki Briggs: Yeah. Well I’m not pestering people, but if anybody wants to, you know, get signed up to be a sponsor for WMA 2027, reach out to me because, you know, we’re that not annoying conference. So, um, we gotta have good sponsors. And  Rosemary Barnes: that is true. That is one thing about, about Wilmar is we keep it really cheap for attendees, but it is still a high quality conference. And the main way that we’re able to do that is because we have really good sponsors that. Um, yeah, they, they provide money obviously, to pay for, uh, a large chunk of the event, but they also don’t expect to be allowed to get up and sell at people. Um, yeah, I, I don’t even know how we managed to get such great sponsors that are, you know, happy with that trade off, but I guess that, yeah, they’ve figured out that it isn’t actually that beneficial to get up and give a sales pitch to people who. Receptive to it. It is much better to just get up and talk about all the things that you know, and then the people who have problems that can be solved by what you [00:16:00] do will naturally get in touch with you. I mean. I think it works better. That’s, that’s my entire sales sales approach. And I guess everybody at the, at the conference, that’s what, yeah, that’s what we’re relying on. I think it’s a better way  Nikki Briggs: and we’re here to help and save you money.  Allen Hall: Yeah. And the Woma 2027 website is up. Just Google. It’s, and we’re looking for sponsors, although a number of sponsors, pretty much everybody from 26 who wants to be back into twenties. 27. So we’ll be, uh, reaching out to all of you and making sure that happens. But the conference is probably gonna get bigger in 2027 just because of the demand. So we’ll be looking for a, a couple of more key sponsors. We want you to get involved as soon as possible. You should do that by, in the us. You can do that by getting a hold of, of Nikki. It’s Nikki, N-I-K-K-I dot Briggs, B-R-I-G-G s@wglightning.com. Or you can just go to Nikki’s LinkedIn page and send her an InMail and, uh, get ahold of her that way or [00:17:00] connect with her on LinkedIn and she’d be glad to help you. Now, Rosemary, I know one of the things we talked about was, uh, some of the expansion of topics for 2027. There was a lot of feedback and we are paying close attention. And thanks to everybody who sent us feedback on the conference, uh, the number of five star reviews are really high, and I, I’m, I’m still a little shocked and um, maybe embarrassed by like, wow. Uh, that’s awesome. But we wanna expand on some of the topics for next year, and we’re talking about doing a blade masterclass and that which would involve rosemary. Maybe some others talking about some of the blade issues that exist around the world. And Rosemary, what are you thinking about?  Rosemary Barnes: Yeah, describing how the process works. ’cause that’s the, that’s probably one of the main things, or the main value that I bring to Australia is the time that I spent working at a, um, um. Wind turbine blade manufacturer, and you know, how does the design process work? What kind of testing do they do? What [00:18:00] does certification mean? Um, all those sorts of things. Uh, they, you might think, oh, I don’t really care about that ’cause I just use the blade once I’ve got it. But anytime you run into a problem, you do need to kind of know how all that stuff works, basically. So, um, yeah, we’ll give a, a masterclass on that topic and so you can come and get. You know, a bit of an understanding about how that works. Ask whatever questions that you’ve got that relate to your specific problems, but then, you know, even if you don’t have a problem now in the future when something comes up, you’ll have that knowledge to fall back on. And it just really helps to be able to know when something’s not right, um, when something wasn’t done right. Um, yeah, I mean there are always at some point an argument about, you know, who’s gonna pay. So it is really helpful to know if things have been done the way that they said that they would be. The way they should be. Um, yeah, but I’m also. I’m really keen to hear about what to include in the main conference. ’cause you know, it can’t be the same every year. Um, I’m super focused on, on blades and I, I think we, I [00:19:00] mean, blades is the biggest, the biggest topic in wind turbine o and m, so it makes sense that we would be focused on that and we’re, we will, but I have less of, um, yeah, in depth knowledge about what non blade issues people are really struggling with at the moment. So definitely be keen to hear from. Viewers about, um, sorry, I’ll say that again. Definitely be keen to hear about potential attendees about what topics they would wanna see covered to make sure that, yeah, it’s interesting and fresh every year.  Allen Hall: Can I circle back on the masterclass a little bit because I had my own little, little mini masterclass this past week looking at the IE specification for wind turbine blades, and I don’t know what prompted me to read that document. I thought it was gonna be a lot thicker than it was, and I was shocked at the lack of detail that on the requirement side, I always think the blade people must have millions of requirements to go [00:20:00] do. And it’s gonna be very technical and a lot of check boxes there, but turns out maybe not as many as I thought there would be. Rosemary Barnes: Oh yeah. That’s interesting that you’re, you’re surprised. Um. I mean, I haven’t worked with it closely since when I was doing my PhD, uh, the PhD was on, there was a, yeah, design of a family, family of wind turbine blades. And so, you know, I was looking at the standard to see what, um, load cases that you had to consider, you know, like the 50 year extreme gust is one of the big ones. And then, you know, various operational loads and that sort of thing. Um, it’s never gonna cover absolutely everything. But I, yeah. What, what, what issues do you see that are, are missing from it?  Allen Hall: Well, when, when I look at the airplane world and we qualify an airplane with the Federal Authority, whoever that could be, it could be Yasa in Europe, could be the FAA in the United States, there’s a pages, there are books of requirements and [00:21:00] guidance materials and details of things you must do to show that the airplane is. Safe to go fly. I figured the wind turbine world would’ve adapted that to some level to have very specific requirements on design margins and, and maybe they’re there as an electrical engineer. I can’t suss all that out, but I can usually tell how rigorous the requirements are by the weight of the document. Usually those documents make a lot of noise when you drop ’em on the desk. This was, uh, a very soft whimper. I thought, well, okay, maybe there’s a lot here I’m missing. I’m sure that I am. I’m an electrical guy. I’m gonna admit it. Right now, I don’t understand all the structural things, but on the airplane side, I know that the airplanes have a lot to do and the requirements are crazy hard, but maybe there’s a lot more tolerance in wind. Rosemary Barnes: They do include safety margins, and there is, uh. A lot more, a lot more tolerance in wind as [00:22:00] there should be because people aren’t flying and wind turbines. You know, like if there was somebody like physically seated inside every blade 24 7, then I think that you would see that the, the standard would be, would be tightened up because you know, like every tightening of the standard is going to result in an increase in cost. So I mean, the biggest difference that I. I I see between, um, arrow and wind, aside from the, the safety issue is the maintenance. There is annual maintenance and they are maintained more than that. They’re, they’re constantly doing stuff, but like if it’s possible to design it to last for 20 or 30 years without needing maintenance, and that’s the way that you want it to be. In general, blades are not supposed to be maintained until there’s a problem. Um, you know, it’s not like. Places where you know that you’re gonna be replacing grease or, um, you know, anything, anything like that that’s built for accessibility. The blades are certainly, certainly not. So yeah, I mean, [00:23:00]you’re definitely not maintaining in the same way as you are with, um, aerospace or Yeah, just aviation. Allen Hall: Howard Pinrose has the, for motor dock, has the Chaos and Caffeine podcast. Which is on YouTube and I watch that. Typically Saturday morning, I think that’s when it comes out. It’s on the weekend. And his last, uh, podcast was about the studies about general maintenance. Back to Rosemary, your point that performing general maintenance, regardless of how much there is, is less costly than trying to fix it on the fly. And that if you devote. Sufficient resources to keeping the equipment maintained in the, in the way it was intended to. You’re gonna have significantly less problems. Uh, and lower costs, but it’s surprising. Wind doesn’t do that  Rosemary Barnes: well, but I mean, the difference is that wind is designed to not be maintained. So it’s, it’s not easier engineering, or not [00:24:00] engineering. It’s not like lazy. It’s actually the opposite. It’s actually really hard to design something that won’t need to be maintained for 30 years. I mean, think about another machine that is not supposed to be looked at for 30 years and you know, that will go through the stress that a wind turbine blade does. But you know, if you think of. Yeah, anything that’s inside your blade, like think about, um, the lightning cable in a blade. Um, you know, like the, if it, if it breaks, you have to cut open the blade to get into it. And, um, most of the length of the blade, that would be, that would be what you would do. It’s huge, huge, huge repair. Um, so, you know, you design it so that that will very rarely happen in theory, you know, if everything’s working well, maybe the lightning cable is a bad example because, um, the lightning protection system is. Almost certainly the, the least well-functioning part of a, a wind turbine, I’d say. But you know, like you think about in every other part of the blade structure, you know, you design it so that it will last for 30 years easily. Um, and then [00:25:00] it’s only when several things go wrong that you would end up having to go in and do that. Um, that maintenance.  Allen Hall: This should be kind of a woma topic actually, because is it even conceivable that you could have minimal maintenance on such a. Heavy industrial piece of equipment for 30 years versus every other machine in human operation that can’t do that. What other machine, I’m sure somebody will write in about that. And if you, if you know what, a machine will operate for 30 years with no maintenance, please send us a note because I don’t know what that is.  Rosemary Barnes: No, I, I think Brent turbines are really, are really special and I think that it is, uh, like commonly misunderstood that, um, you know. Not maintaining for 30 years is, you know, somehow not in engineering correctly or making the engineering easier, but it’s the opposite. You’re making the engineering harder. The same with manufacturing of, um, the blades specifically or anything made out of composite materials. Like the tolerances are huge, but the fact is that that makes the engineering harder, not easier because it has to work at [00:26:00] any, you know, if the web is here or if it’s a hundred millimeters this way, it’s still has to work exactly the same for the exact same amount of time. So to make it low cost and reliable for that amount of time with that little maintenance is a huge job. Um, and you know, one world record that I know that wind turbines have is that the blades are the largest, like single piece component of any human made structure. There is nothing, there’s nothing bigger than, um, a wind turbine blade. Like a bridge is made of multiple different members and a airplane. Has, you know, two, two wings that don’t even, even the span of most airplanes isn’t, um, both wings together isn’t the same as the longest wind turbine blades. Like, there’s not, there’s no one big single component that’s bigger than a wind turbine blade. Not to mention the strain. Um, they bend a lot that they, they really, they really bend a lot. That’s a very. Difficult operating environment. They do millions of, of fatigue cycles in their [00:27:00] lifetime. Uh, it’s just like, you know, they’re, they’re breaking records all over the place. It’s a, it’s a super cool thing to mark on as an engineer, to be honest. Allen Hall: Okay. So at Walmart 2026, I know that was one of the discussions that popped up, uh, on the panel, was what should we expect for a lifetime? Or sort of a less re a reduced level of maintenance on a wind turbine. And the answer was maybe a year. And I thought that was a very Australian way of answering that question. It’s, it’s a real answer. I think, uh, the people that operate wind turbines know that that probably is true. You got about a year and then you gotta get on it. But financial investors don’t necessarily have that opinion about it. They think you just turn it on, let it run 30 years and collect all this money and. What we’re learning is it’s, it’s a complicated problem. And Rosemary, I think you’re 100% right. All the variables that happen during the manufacturing and the design of a wind turbine have to incorporate safety features that keep that operating for 30 years. That’s really hard to do, [00:28:00] and you’d have no way to really verify it once you shove it out the door, especially the first thousand you make. It’s almost an impossible task.  Rosemary Barnes: Yeah, I mean there obviously there is heaps of maintenance that needs to be done to, to wind turbines, even if it is incredibly low maintenance compared to other kinds of machines. And if you are skipping that kind of maintenance or doing it incorrectly, then that is definitely a very um, Australia relevant issue. You know, everyone’s on these full service agreements. Sometimes not for the full lifetime of the the turbine. So you can imagine if you’re kind of like half-assing your maintenance for the, those first 10 years, then you’re just sending a, you know, time bomb to the next person to take over that contract. So. That’s a real challenge, but I’d see it with blades where it’s like, oh, they’re just quietly fixing, um, damages. They get the same damage over and over again and they just quietly fix it and not say anything and, or, you know, not really raise it like maybe you’re technically getting the reports, but it’s never flagged that, you know, Hey, this is a serial issue and no one’s ever investigating. What’s the [00:29:00] real root cause of this? It might be that, you know, they’re fixing it well enough to last to the end of the FSA period. And then, yeah. Oh hey. Turns out your whole fleet has a serial issue that you need to take care of now with, without the backing of the manufacturer, which, um, you know, obviously makes it about 10 times harder. Allen Hall: And that’s why you want to go to Wilma 2027 because we’re gonna to talk about that issue in a. About 20 others during the two day event. At least that’s what it’s scheduled for right now. Maybe it’ll go to a third day. Rosemary, maybe we need to add a third day because of all the topics  Rosemary Barnes: we need to move to a beach location. If we’re gonna start going for multiple days,  Allen Hall: Rosemary wants to have it in Fiji or was it Tahiti? What was the other place you were saying you would like to go to?  Rosemary Barnes: Tahiti would be fine. Um, Maldives is what I was saying, but yeah, I will accept that. It’s not that. Logical to run Australia. Um, win o and m event offshore. Allen Hall: We wanna send a congratulations to Yolanda and [00:30:00]Manuel as they have gotten married down in Mexico, uh, with all friends and family, several hundred attendees as I have learned. So congratulations to those two. And Yolanda will be back on the podcast. In the next week or two, that wraps up another episode of the Uptime Wind Energy Podcast. If today’s discussion sparked any questions or ideas, we’d love for to hear from you, just reach out to us on LinkedIn and don’t forget to subscribe. So if you never miss an episode. And if you found value in today’s conversation, please leave us a review. It helps other wind energy professionals discover the show. For Rosie and Nikki, I’m Allen Hall, and we’ll see you here next week on the Uptime Wind Energy [00:31:00] Podcast.

Allen covers EEW American Offshore Structures’ Chapter 11 filing, Vineyard Wind suing GE Vernova for $545 million, Europe’s exit from Korea, and wind project wins in Australia and Canada. Sign up now for Uptime Tech News, our weekly newsletter on all things wind technology. This episode is sponsored by Weather Guard Lightning Tech. Learn more about Weather Guard’s StrikeTape Wind Turbine LPS retrofit. Follow the show on YouTube, Linkedin and visit Weather Guard on the web. And subscribe to Rosemary’s “Engineering with Rosie” YouTube channel here. Have a question we can answer on the show? Email us! There is a story unfolding across this industry right now. It is a story of two worlds. One world is closing its doors. The other is throwing them wide open. Let us start in New Jersey. EEW American Offshore Structures filed for Chapter Eleven bankruptcy on April eighth. This was the first monopile manufacturing facility ever built in the United States. New Jersey Governor Phil Murphy announced a two hundred fifty million dollar investment in the Paulsboro Marine Terminal back in twenty twenty. It was called the largest industrial offshore wind investment in the country at the time. At full buildout… five hundred thousand square feet of production space. More than one hundred monopiles per year. Five hundred workers. They even built the first American-made monopile… for Orsted’s Ocean Wind project. It weighed three million pounds. It measured three hundred feet long. Then Orsted canceled Ocean Wind One and Two. Then Shell pulled out of Atlantic Shores. Without contracted work… workers disassembled and recycled finished monopiles for scrap. Federal policy shifts removed the pipeline of future projects. A landlord eviction filing followed. And then… Chapter Eleven. That is a two hundred fifty million dollar facility… with nowhere left to go. Now stay with us. Because just offshore… another American offshore wind story is fighting for its life. Vineyard Wind… the sixty-two turbine project fifteen miles south of Martha’s Vineyard… filed suit in Massachusetts against GE Renewables. GE Vernova says Vineyard Wind owes it three hundred million dollars for work already performed… and it wants to walk away at the end of April. Vineyard Wind says not so fast. The developer says GE still owes five hundred forty-five million dollars for what it calls inexcusably poor performance after a catastrophic turbine blade collapse in July of twenty twenty-four. Fiberglass blade fragments washed onto Nantucket beaches during peak tourist season. Sixty-eight of seventy-two blades had to be removed and replaced. That set the project back nearly two years. Construction did reach completion in March… making Vineyard Wind the first offshore project to finish under the current administration. But now the only contractor capable of completing the remaining work… wants out. A court hearing was scheduled for Thursday. And now… look eastward. Something similar is playing out in Korea. European offshore wind companies are exiting the Korean market one by one. Corio Generation, a British firm owned by Macquarie, disbanded its Korean unit and pulled out of joint projects in Busan and Ulsan. Germany’s RWE quit offshore wind projects in Taean and Sinan counties. Vestas postponed its turbine factory in Mokpo… indefinitely. Equinor began reducing its Korean workforce. Shell exited the Korean offshore market entirely in twenty twenty-four. These companies point to worsening global profitability… and Korean government policies they say favor domestic companies over firms with greater experience. Korea had a target of three gigawatts of offshore wind by twenty thirty. That goal is now in serious doubt. But here is where the story turns. Not every market is closing its door. Eight thousand miles from New Jersey… in the Sunshine State of Queensland, Australia… the final forty-one turbines just arrived at the Wambo wind project. Cubico Sustainable Investments and Stanwell are building a five hundred six megawatt project on the Darling Downs. Stage One… two hundred fifty-two megawatts… already feeding the Queensland grid. Stage Two deliveries are now complete. Commissioning and full operations are on track for the end of twenty twenty-six. And up in Ontario, Canada… the province just approved fourteen new wind and solar projects totaling more than thirteen hundred megawatts. The average price… eight point eight cents per kilowatt hour. Compare that to twenty-one point four cents for some proposed nuclear projects… and more than thirty-two cents for certain new reactor designs. Contracts run for twenty years, with all projects online before twenty thirty. So let us step back. In New Jersey… the first American monopile factory files for bankruptcy. Off Massachusetts… a completed offshore wind farm fights to keep its contractor. In Korea… European developers pack their bags. But in Australia… turbines arrive on schedule. And in Canada… wind power undercuts nuclear at the meter. The wind energy industry is not in retreat. It is choosing its battlegrounds. And where the conditions are right… the blades are turning. And now you know… the rest of the story. That is the state of the wind industry for the 13th of April, twenty twenty-six. Join us for the Uptime Wind Energy Podcast tomorrow.

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Krigen i Iran har i den grad sat verden på den anden ende. Og mens de fleste virksomheder er fanget i usikkerhed og svære beslutninger, så tænder den samtidig et lys for nogle af Danmarks ellers mest martrede virksomheder. Det gælder ikke mindst for selskaber som Ørsted og Vestas, der nu igen kan se en ellers meget tillukket grøn omstilling blomstre op ved tanken om, at vi kan frigøre os fra fremmede, ustabile staters olie- og gasleverancer. Lyt til Lunde & Linding, der kigger nærmere på mulighederne for Vestas og Ørsted - og om der virkelig er handling bag de grønne løfter denne gang. Og så kommer Coop en tur i vridemaskinen. Den pressede dagligvaregigant er kommet med regnskab - begynder det endelig at lysne. Det og meget mere får du skarpe bud på i ugens afsnit. Medvirkende: Niels Lunde, erhvervskommentator, Finans. Søren Linding, erhvervskommentator, Finans. Vært: Mads Ring. Producer: Kasper Søegaard. Foto/grafik: Thomas Lekfeldt/Anders Thykier. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Vestas hasn’t shared SCADA data after a South Korea turbine collapse, citing an expired warranty. Plus workers at Nordex in Iowa are concerned about tariffs. Sign up now for Uptime Tech News, our weekly newsletter on all things wind technology. This episode is sponsored by Weather Guard Lightning Tech. Learn more about Weather Guard’s StrikeTape Wind Turbine LPS retrofit. Follow the show on YouTube, Linkedin and visit Weather Guard on the web. And subscribe to Rosemary’s “Engineering with Rosie” YouTube channel here. Have a question we can answer on the show? Email us! Transcript The Uptime Wind Energy Podcast brought to you by StrikeTape, protecting thousands of wind turbines from lightning damage worldwide. Visit strikeTape.com. And now your hosts. Allen Hall Welcome to the Uptime Wind Energy Podcast. I’m Allen Hall and I’m here with Rosemary Barnes. And Fergus is here. Hi. Welcome to our top story. This week is a wind turbine collapse that happened in South Korea at the Changpo Wind Power Complex in Yeongdeok, and the turbine lost a blade. There’s some video here that was recorded when the turbine collapsed, so it happened a couple of months ago, and investigators have been trying to determine the cause of that failure. They’re having a little bit of difficulty because they would like to access the SCADA system of that turbine because that would have a lot of more information about [00:01:00] how the tower was operating at that particular moment. And they’re having trouble in that it is a Vestas turbine and Vestas has not released the SCADA data and it’s citing an expired warranty. Now, Rosemary, this leads to a lot of problems because obviously there’s a ton of sensors in wind turbines today, and they can help determine causes of failures pretty rapidly. But without it, you’re just really looking at video in this particular collapse. Rosemary Barnes It’s amazing that you can look at video. The video is far more useful than the SCADA data is, probably. Um, yeah, it’s, well, I’ve never actually, like, I’ve worked on a lot of RCAs and I’ve never actually got to see video footage of the incident, so that’s actually really cool that they’ve got this dash cam footage. Looking at it now, you can, um, see the lower, probably two thirds of the turbine tower, so you can see the blades coming past. I wish the video would start just like 10 seconds earlier. [00:02:00] Um, because maybe you can see a bit of wobble in the tower. You can see that one of the blades is already missing a tip, or the tip kind of flies off anyway, so maybe it was bent. So definitely looks to me like the root cause was that there was a blade failure. The, um, part of the blade broke off, caused a rotor imbalance, which then meant that one of the blades hit the tower and then it’s really easy for a tower to buckle once it’s got some damage in it. So that, that in itself, like, that’s not an uncommon scenario. Um, and yeah, for sure, like you would ask for the SCADA data, but, uh, I don’t think it’s accurate that they’re saying. There must have been a faulty sensor or something because when there’s a rotor imbalance, it should stop, um, stop the turbine. But I do know from experience, it does not always stop the turbine quickly enough to stop this happening. So, um, I’m not, I’m not sure that the SCADA data would tell you anything [00:03:00] groundbreaking. However, I think it is very interesting Vestas are very publicly not sharing because it’s out of warranty because to me, access to the SCADA data is a key part of being able to operate your turbine safely. And you don’t sell a turbine — like you might sell a turbine with a two year warranty, sure, but that doesn’t mean that you are selling a turbine that can only be operated safely for two years. That’s just like absolutely insane and contrary to — at least a lot of the world’s laws, there’s laws around, you know, how safely you can operate equipment, and especially energy generation assets have specific laws about that. You have to be able to operate them safely and yeah, from what we can see here, like you can’t get access to the SCADA data. So in, in this case, I don’t know if there was a problem with the turbine controller that contributed to this problem. I, I mean, I’m, I’m always a bit surprised that a turbine can shake itself apart and it’s not, you know, there isn’t a sensor in there that can stop it in time to stop the collapse because if you take just the population of turbines that have collapsed, which is, you know, [00:04:00] very, very few from considering the whole global population, but looking at those ones that have collapsed, it’s pretty common way that it happens is from, um, part of a blade falling off and then a rotor imbalance causing the tower to, um, start wobbling and the blades to hit the tower. Allen Hall So would it be in the control laws, Rosemary, where the shutdown would happen in terms of detecting vibration or motion? Maybe swing of the tower? Would that would then drive a safety circuit? Rosemary Barnes At a certain, at a certain level? Um, ’cause all of those, like the rotor does get in a bit of imbalance. The tower does accelerate in, you know, four and a half side to side, that all happens and can happen like quite, quite a lot as well. Like if you’re inside a wind turbine and when they stop it, um, then it makes like a very noticeable shudder right as that stops. And if you do an emergency stop, um, hopefully not while, you know, hopefully you’re not inside the tower when it goes from full, um, operation [00:05:00] to stopping as soon as, as quickly as possible. But that does make a big, um, jump. So, you know, like it’s not shutting down every time that there’s some kind of imbalance or, um, tower acceleration. But yeah, it just, the thing is, it’s, you just, they’re big and heavy, right? And there’s just so much inertia in the system that things can’t happen that fast. Like even if the control system can respond really quickly, it doesn’t mean that it can respond — like it can actually physically stop things before it’s had, you know, even one rotation to hit the tower, um, can be enough. What’s really interesting is that it could be a control system problem, right? That would — that they have now learned. There’s some faulty logic they need to replace it across the wind farm. But Vestas is saying, we’re not gonna tell you if that’s the case or not, because you can’t access this data. And I think that that is really interesting because like I’m constantly frustrated by how little, um, cooperation you can get for root cause analysis and like you can [00:06:00] understand it, no one wants to share their data, but it is in theory covered by laws, at least in, uh, Australian states. You, you know, that you, you’re required to provide information to operate the assets safely for its lifetime. And I, it just, to me is really highlighting that that’s not the case. It’s, it’s not an unusual situation, is kind of what I’m saying. Um, it’s very common that they don’t wanna cooperate, and I’m surprised that they’re happy to say that so, so publicly. Allen Hall Well, the threshold needs to be set somewhere when investigators are looking into an accident like this. I always think you try to help the investigators as much as you can. In the airplane world when there’s an accident, that’s one of the first things that happens is they go pull all the data from the aircraft and then go search through it and see what happened. In the wind turbine world, that’s not necessarily the case, but there is a lot of data at all the OEMs, and it’s not necessarily locked into the turbine. It’s usually remote access, so it would be very easy to give access to [00:07:00] investigators. So it’s, it’s curious to me as to why there’s any hesitation at all if the Korean investigators wanna see the data, just give it to ’em. Rosemary Barnes Yeah. Especially because like from just the brief look that I’ve had, it doesn’t look like it’s gonna turn out that there’s some problem with the turbine controller. If Vestas aren’t to blame, it would be much easier for them to just privately release the data under an NDA and say, look, hey, it’s nothing. It’s not here. But I will say that, um, in the RCAs that I’ve worked on, safety regulators can compel data from the owner and the operator, but it’s not so clear that they have the right to get data from the manufacturer. When you’ve got full service agreements, you can get that because the manufacturer is the operator. But in this case, if Vestas had nothing to do with the operation, then like, I don’t know what the laws are in South Korea, but it is possible at least that they don’t have any right to compel Vestas for the data. Um, for the data. And I think that [00:08:00] is wrong. And, um, this, you know, will hopefully highlight to people, safety regulators around the world — hey, you know, do we need to be changing this regulation a little bit to make sure that when you sell a wind turbine, or you know, any, anything else, any other big bit of industrial equipment, when you sell it, you have to — you have to provide enough information for the life of the wind turbine to operate it safely. Doesn’t mean you need to give away all your trade secrets, but it needs to be safe. And part of that is when you have a catastrophic failure, you do need to make sure that this is not gonna repeat itself across the whole wind farm or across, you know, every turbine of this type in the world. That’s why you do a root cause analysis after the fact. Like you’re not saving this turbine. It’s in like absolute pieces on the ground, right? Like the most value you’ll ever get out of this turbine again is probably recycling the steel. Um, that’ll be the most value. So you don’t do the root cause analysis for the lost asset. You do it to make sure that you understand what’s happened and you are [00:09:00] able to, um, know ahead of time if this is a risk for future assets. Um, and you can’t, yeah, you cannot do that if you don’t have all the data. So, yeah. Very interesting. Allen Hall Like we talked about at the WOMA conference a few months ago, access to SCADA data is paramount for a lot of operators. And, uh, when contracts are assigned, a lot of times that is not lined into the contract — that I will have full access to the SCADA data — and it can be, which I think a lot of operators don’t even consider. So that’s a negotiated item for most contracts and most wind turbine purchases. Especially in Europe now with the new data laws in Europe. I think all the OEMs have to provide that data regardless if there’s an accident or not. You just have — yeah, I think they have to give full access. The means of doing it, I think it’s being implemented this year. Well, it sounds like talking to operators they are just getting some of that data, but once that door opens in Europe, do you think the rest of the world will probably follow? Rosemary Barnes Yeah, I mean, it’s one thing, like they don’t want you reverse engineering their [00:10:00] IP. That’s, that’s basically it. All their trade secrets. Allen Hall Could you do that? I mean, that, that, that’s always the, the, the real issue, right? So I hear that quite a bit from OEMs. We don’t want you to reverse engineer the turbine, but can you do that from the SCADA data? That seems like an impossible task. Rosemary Barnes I also don’t think that anybody is doing anything that tricky, that it’s really gonna be worth the, the effort, you know. And it’s one thing, like it’s annoying — you can’t access the control system. Um, so you can’t make improvements, you know, like you could get a bit more yield out of your wind farm if you can start doing things like wake steering or, you know, changing the speed of operation to, um, you know, depending on environmental conditions, and those, like you, you can improve your operations a bit from that. And so it’s been annoying that you, you can’t actually do those cool projects because you can’t get into the control system. And you know, there exist companies that will come in and take a, a, you know, 10-year-old wind turbine, rip out the control system, put in a new [00:11:00] one, and people go through that whole painful, expensive process just so that they can get control over operation and the data. And that’s, that’s annoying. And, you know, maybe getting an extra, you know, I don’t know, two or 3% AEP out of your wind farm is a big deal. But, um, you know, that’s on the one hand. But on the other hand, when it comes to being able to safely operate your asset, it just shouldn’t be any question. You know? And I don’t know why a manufacturer would be really digging their heels in on this because like I do see, and I hope that this is the kind of incident that makes safety regulators go, hey, you know, this isn’t, this isn’t cool. This is not okay, that we don’t have the information we need to make sure that these turbines are safe across the rest of the, um, the country, you know. Like an overzealous safety regulator could easily be like, oh, okay, well we don’t have a root cause, we can’t rule out that there’s not a fleet-wide problem — all of these Vestas turbines across, um, South [00:12:00] Korea have to shut down now. You know, like that, that is a potential outcome that could happen. That would be terrible for Vestas. Um, so I just don’t understand why they don’t just give the data. — SPONSOR: PES WIND MAGAZINE — Allen Hall As wind energy professionals, staying informed is crucial — and let’s face it, difficult. That’s why the Uptime Podcast recommends PES Wind Magazine. PES Wind offers a diverse range of in-depth articles and expert insights that dive into the most pressing issues facing our energy future. Whether you’re an industry veteran or new to wind, PES Wind has the high quality content you need. Don’t miss out. Visit PESwind.com today. Allen Hall Well, a wind turbine factory in West Branch, Iowa just reopened after sitting idle for 12 years and already its workers are worried about tariffs. Nordex restarted the facility in July of last year to manufacture nacelles and drivetrains for the American and Canadian markets. [00:13:00] Orders are strong for this Nordex facility. Alliant Energy awarded Nordex contracts for up to 190 turbines — that’s pretty good — representing over 1,060 megawatts of capacity, the largest single award in the company’s 25-year history in American operations. Uh, but the concerns at the Nordex facility at the moment have to do with tariffs, where a lot of the components that are coming into the factory are running into hefty tariffs, which makes the margins really tough for Nordex to operate that plant. Uh, so the tax advantages of having a facility in the United States are really being offset by some of these extra taxes that are being levied on wind turbine components. Uh, this is not the only facility in Iowa that must be thinking hard about this. The TPI facility in Iowa that is going through the bankruptcy hearings at the moment. [00:14:00] There’s an offer from a company to buy that facility, or acquire that facility, and a couple of the TPI facilities down in Mexico. As it stands, GE is backing the Iowa plant in case those initial purchases of those factories fall through — GE would like to have the Iowa factory, most likely for tax purposes, because some of the projects probably depend upon the tax advantages of building particularly blades and large components like nacelles in the US. So Iowa is a real key here. The restart and some of the increased operations in the United States are indicative of how things are going, I think, globally in the wind energy world, where factories have been closed or they’ve been considering closing a number of factories in Europe and trying to find key places to manufacture components where maybe the tariffs are lower or the operational costs are lower, or [00:15:00] labor costs are lower. Uh, we’re seeing a real big shuffle at the moment. Do you think that this is gonna settle up very quickly? ‘Cause it does seem like there is a migration to the UK because of the amount of money being spent in the United Kingdom, and a migration out of Northern Europe, and probably a migration out of America over time. Rosemary Barnes I mean, it’s interesting how much governments are playing a role. You know, government policies are playing a role in where manufacturing is happening. Um, I think it’s not even like you would’ve said until really recently that you put factories where labor is cheap. And, you know, for the really big components, you want to get roughly close to where the final project is, or at least close to a port so that you can get on a ship and, you know, ’cause um, overland transport is an issue. Um, but now I don’t even think that the labor is the main factor anymore, and maybe even [00:16:00] the geographical location in the world is not even the biggest issue now. It’s about, you know, where are the favorable conditions, and whether that’s because, you know, because of tariffs. And so I do think that we see in the UK the biggest thing that they have — it’s certainly not cheap labor, right? Um, it is, it’s pretty well located for a lot of projects. Um, the UK government has got a good, um, plan for, you know, a decade or more into the future. Right. You know, they’ve also executed on some of those, so we know that it’s not all just talk, and they’ve got some pretty good certainty about these projects and how the economics are going to work out. Allen Hall The UK is a good example of, of maybe a process that’s going well at the moment, but the long-term prospects I think is where everybody gets a little bit nervous. This thing that happened in America like two years ago where everybody was really excited about creating new factories — and then we get down the line a little bit and now we’re not happy to have factories. It really depends upon how [00:17:00] dedicated the government is and how many, uh, barriers they put in to prevent the money from going away. Right? When you lock in long-term funding where it doesn’t put the projects at risk, then it’s great, but if it can be wiped away by the next administration or just the passage of a single bill, then it just makes it really risky. Rosemary Barnes I think I just wanted to make the point that, you know, labor is expensive in the UK, but that doesn’t mean that they can’t have manufacturing, even, you know, like wind turbine blades at least are a very labor intensive thing to manufacture compared to most things these days. Um, but even then it’s not the most important thing anymore. So, you know, um, any country has the ability to put in place the ingredients that would be needed to get, uh, manufacturing of wind turbines in their own country. Um, so, you know, it’s a choice to a large extent, but people are scared to commit long term. You know, the manufacturers are scared to [00:18:00] commit a factory. Countries are scared to commit to a pipeline ’cause they don’t wanna be, you know, interfering in the market. But it’s just, it’s a big lumpy market that just makes it hard for people to want to invest and commit. And so, you know, if you want that manufacturing in your country, then you can, you can get it if you give confidence. Allen Hall At what point do you make decisions about manufacturing for wind turbines or even solar panels in your country with what’s happening in the Middle East? Does that really change the dynamic quite a bit, where the incremental cost delta of making it in-country is totally worth it with the knowledge that you’ll be free of all, uh, connections to the Middle East and the turmoil that does seem to happen there every couple of years. Rosemary Barnes It’s not like a direct enough link that it’s gonna make people make that decision overnight. We’re not buying our wind turbines from the Middle East currently, right? So, you know, existing turbine supply chain. So I think [00:19:00] it could definitely make you wanna turn up the pace at which you buy wind turbines and install them. And if you’ve got, you know, um, bigger pipelines, then it nudges you more and more towards local manufacturing. I guess that people are nervous in general of relying on other supply chains, um, or supply chains from overseas, but it’s a huge difference between, you know, relying on liquid fuels, which are, you know, arriving every day and you need them to continue arriving every day. And if one strait gets closed and that’s a 20% decline in the, you know, volume that can be moved around — you know, try and take 20% of, um, demand out of the system — and that’s obviously huge. But if you had the same thing, if it was wind turbine blades being transported through the strait, then, um, you know, it’d be no new wind farms [00:20:00] this year. It wouldn’t be that all of your existing wind turbines have to be turned off — like they keep on running. It’s just that the future doesn’t grow as fast as you would like it to. So I think it’s just like a much slower timeframe for shocks if you are relying on, um, wind turbines and solar panels, even if they’re made overseas. I still think that it is worth considering, like for security, like if you got into a big long war, and especially with, um, China because they’re the ones that make most of, uh, solar panels and batteries — at least, not wind turbines, although they are a major manufacturer, they’re not the majority for projects outside of China. Most countries are investing in some, you know, local capability to make things, you know, like Australia is investing in capacity to make solar panels, even though we know that we’ll never make them as cheap as China. The US also has done a lot to encourage local manufacturing of solar panels. Um, everybody is [00:21:00] trying to make batteries. Um, so yeah, I think we are doing that. I heard on a podcast, I think it was the Energy Transition Show, reference to, you know, every country does their study about what is net zero gonna cost. Um, and whatever the study was done in the UK, the amount that the energy transition was gonna cost — net zero by 2050, what is the cost to the economy — um, and it was, I can’t remember the number, some amount of trillions. They pointed out that that is the same as one crisis. Like what we’re going through now costs about that same amount of money. Um, you know, one fuel crisis. So it’s like if you can save yourself from one crisis, um, yeah, if you can insulate yourself from one crisis, it’s paid for itself. Do we really think that in the next 24 years — and it’s not just over 24 years, it’s, you know, it’s forever after that — do you think that there’s only gonna be one? No way. There’s gonna be lots. So I’m hopeful that, [00:22:00] um, this crisis is gonna get people thinking, hey, we can insure against this sort of thing by electrifying, um, that, you know, we’ve had oil shocks before. We’ll have them again in the future. I mean, in Australia, like, I’ve heard international commentary saying things like, you know, Australia will be a winner out of this because we’re such a big exporter of LNG. But in reality in Australia, there are petrol stations that don’t have any diesel — um, like, you know, lots of them. So people with diesel cars are driving around and around and around to, um, you know, find somewhere where they can buy fuel. And in a just delicious piece of irony, like back two or three elections ago, um, the conservative party was having this point of difference with the more progressive party — the Labor party — that, you know, they wanted to promote EVs, and the coalition said they’re gonna ruin your weekend. They’re gonna end, they’re gonna end the [00:23:00] weekend, I think was the saying, because yeah, like EVs, you can’t go camping or whatever with an EV. And now we’ve got the Easter long weekend and people are legitimately saying I can’t find fuel to drive to my plans for the Easter weekend. So now it’s diesel specifically — you know, fossil fuel cars in general — that are ending the weekend. You know, people have had their weekend ended by, um, not having an EV this time around. So I think that it should really reframe people’s thinking, refocus us. Allen Hall But isn’t that what eventually happens — is that the realism hits, and so no matter what your ideology is or your thought process, you still have to deal with what’s happening on the ground at any particular moment. And this is not the first time these events have happened, they’re not gonna be the last time that they’ve happened. Your best mode of operation is to decouple from these events as much as [00:24:00] you can. Where I think the UK is headed. Obviously Norway has, in a sense, decoupled itself because of the amount of electric vehicles that it has and the natural resources that it has. Honestly, every country — every major country — if they can decouple, is going to try to decouple. Just to stop, uh, because it has seemed like in the United States, well, since the 1970s, it’s just been this rocky road. And the discussion — at least you hear discussions here now more recently about what are we doing? We just keep doing the same thing and we end up with these trillion dollar spends to create some new future, and the future never really shifts all that much. Should we be involving ourselves in this? In terms of energy production, I think you see more of a push for more independent energy production and decoupling, which I think Australia’s headed to and could do. The UK is [00:25:00] trying to do it, and other countries are trying to do it. If you have enough of an economy to do it, when energy is one of those things, I think you just can’t not do it — you would need to be involved in solar and wind. You need to be involved in batteries and you need to be involved in LNG if you can do it, you need to be involved in nuclear if you can pull it off. All of the above is gonna be the answer for a lot of countries to get out of the strait. Rosemary Barnes I think the US is a bit different though, because, um, unlike many countries, you could become more energy secure or entirely energy secure without electrifying. I think that you, you have enough of the various different kinds of, um, fossil fuels that you could. Uh, and I’m sure that will be the response as well in the, at least immediate future in the US. Whereas other countries who don’t have that option, we’re forced to move into the future. And I think that, you know, is better for us in the long term. Allen Hall Well, this is the thing about Australia — and we pointed out at WOMA — [00:26:00] is Australia is leading the world in a lot of ways, and electrification is one of them. So the rest of the world is watching what happens in the way that Australia goes about it. A lot of wind, even more solar, and some batteries — and how that plays out’s gonna affect where the rest of the world goes. That wraps up another episode of the Uptime Wind Energy Podcast. If today’s discussion sparked any questions or ideas, we’d love to hear from you. Reach out to us on LinkedIn. Don’t forget to subscribe, so you never miss an episode. And if you have found value in today’s conversation, please leave us a review. It really helps other wind energy professionals discover the show. So for Rosie — Yolanda and Matthew are on holiday — I’m Allen Hall and we’ll see you here next time on the Uptime Wind Energy [00:27:00] Podcast.  

In this episode of the Share PLM Podcast, we are joined by Dennys Gomes, Senior Director and Head of Engineering Excellence at Vestas. Dennys is a mechanical engineer specializing in automotive engineering with over 23 years of experience across R&D, engineering leadership, and industrial transformation. Having held roles ranging from designer and specialist to team leader, manager, and senior director, he brings a strong end-to-end perspective on how engineering organizations operate and scale. Currently a Senior Director and Head of Engineering Excellence at Vestas, Dennys focuses on engineering excellence, PLM strategy, and cross-functional alignment, with deep expertise in Model-Based Definition (MBD), Model-Based Enterprise (MBE), and PDM/PLM systems. Here's what you can look forward to in this insightful episode:⚉ Discovering the Opportunity for Model-Based Definition⚉ Explaining Model-Based Definition in Simple Terms⚉ Addressing Legal and Contractual Considerations ⚉ Moving from Document-Centric to Data-Centric Thinking⚉ The Efficiency Gains of Model-Based Engineering ⚉ Enabling Machine-to-Machine Communication ⚉ Starting the MBD Journey at Vestas⚉ Collaborating with SuppliersCONNECT WITH DENNYS: ⚉ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dennys-gomes-1b49b6/ CONNECT WITH SHARE PLM:⚉ Website: https://shareplm.com/ Join us every month to listen to fascinating interviews, where we cover a wide array of topics, from actionable tips, to personal experiences, to strategies that you can implement into your PLM strategy.If you have an interesting story to share and want to join the conversation, contact us and let's chat. We can't wait to hear from you!

The UK bars Ming Yang on security grounds while Vestas announces a €250M nacelle factory in Scotland. Also, Nordex reaches a 199-meter hub height milestone and male bats use turbines as courtship song perches. Sign up now for Uptime Tech News, our weekly newsletter on all things wind technology. This episode is sponsored by Weather Guard Lightning Tech. Learn more about Weather Guard’s StrikeTape Wind Turbine LPS retrofit. Follow the show on YouTube, Linkedin and visit Weather Guard on the web. And subscribe to Rosemary’s “Engineering with Rosie” YouTube channel here. Have a question we can answer on the show? Email us! [00:00:00] The Uptime Wind Energy Podcast brought to you by Strike Tape, protecting thousands of wind turbines from lightning damage worldwide. Visit strike tape.com. And now your hosts. Allen Hall: Welcome to the Uptime Wind Energy Podcast. I’m your host Allen Hall, and I’m here with Rosemary Barnes, Matthew Stead, and Yolanda Padron. And. The hot news this week is Scotland, and Scotland is gonna be a major hub for manufacturing for all the offshore wind that is happening in the UK and around Europe. Well, the UK government ruled that Chinese turbine maker Ming Yang poses a national security threat and blocked its products from UK offshore wind projects, which in turn killed a plan for a one and a half billion pound Scottish factory. And then a couple of hours later, Dana Danish Giant Vestus announced plans to build its own cell [00:01:00] and hub factory in Scotland with an investment of about 250 million euros and up to about 500 jobs. Uh, but there is still a catch. Vestus is only going to move forward if it wins enough orders from the UK’s offshore wind. Auction program and allocation round eight was announced recently, so that’s gonna happen. So obviously Vestus would like to win a number of turbine orders from that, but that’s a pretty major announcement by the UK and by Vestus. It does seem like Vestus will be the leader in offshore winds in the uk. Is that the long term play now? Is that there’ll be a primary. Wind turbine source for the uk and that would be Vestas.  Rosemary Barnes: Weren’t we just covering, didn’t we just cover last week about another Danish manufacturer who just closed in a cell, uh, manufacturing facility in Denmark? Allen Hall: Siemens did.  Rosemary Barnes: So yeah, one week [00:02:00] Siemens is closing a factory in Denmark and the next week. As Bestus is opening similar factory in the uk. So that’s a interesting little geographic, uh, bit of information,  Matthew Stead: isn’t it? Thanks to our friends, the royal family in the uk, that they’re really promoting offshore wind. Matthew Stead: Uh, my understanding is they own the rights to the offshore water. Uh, well, obviously the offshore, offshore area, and they, they have promoted, um, the use of leases. And I, I understand, I might be cor incorrect, that the royal family is the one that may gain the, the benefit from the leases.  Allen Hall: It’s the crown of state in the UK that. Manages the royal family’s holdings. [00:03:00] Some part of the awarded amount or the, the leases are going to go to the royal family. I forget what that number is. Maybe 10% of ’em. And the rest basically are the treasury of the uk.  Matthew Stead: Oh, not all of it.  Allen Hall: Yeah, not all of it. But yeah, I mean it definitely benefits the royal family.  Matthew Stead: Yeah. So kiosk to the royal family for promoting it.  Allen Hall: Well, the price of petroleum in oil products recently has skyrocketed, of course. And, uh. The push to get renewables as the leading source of electricity generation in the UK is a massive move, which will. Promulgate all through Europe, everybody’s gonna be on that same pathway, I would think. Right now, the, the, the unique part about the UK and these, these Scottish efforts is that the speed at which the UK and Scotland in particular are going after it, you see some commitment by the Scandinavians in Germany to get to some of these numbers. But, uh, the UK is putting in an action. And they have a in, uh, industrial growth plan, which [00:04:00] is a little bit unique that this is part of the growth strategy of the UK is they’re trying to grow jobs, they’re trying to get higher paying jobs into the uk and this is the, the one way they’re trying to accomplish it. I was listening to a podcast today talking about this. It was someone representing, I think it was great British energy, but they are at least the, as the discussion points, they were trying to show comparisons. To what will happen and when to What has happened in the past with aerospace that the UK realized it’s good at composites, manufacturing wings, doing power plants, rolls Royce is there, right? So there’s a number of parallel. Tracks that the UK is going to to try to do through, um, their knowledge of aerospace into the wind turbine market. We’ll see if that comes to fruition. I’m not sure where these vestus turbine blades are gonna be built. They’re gonna be V 2 36 turbines, 15 megawatt machines out in the water. I, I assume that the turbine blades are gonna be coming from outside the [00:05:00] uk, but maybe the UK is working on something with Vestus about that.  Rosemary Barnes: I don’t know, but, but the UK government with their auctions has definitely laid the framework that would enable manufacturers to make that sort of investment or that, that sort of investment decision. So it wouldn’t, wouldn’t surprise me if we saw more manufacturing there. They’ve got, you know, the most secure, uh, and long, long term pipeline, more the most visibility around. Future projects. So if I was a company looking for, you know, where am I gonna open another factory, that would probably be quite appealing. That security really helps when you’re planning out a factory to know that you’re highly likely to have orders filling it for, you know, the lifetime of the factory. Even if costs are a little bit higher, I think that it would be, you know, you can offset a certain amount of cost by. The certainty.  Allen Hall: What are the short term ramifications for Chinese wind turbine manufacturers in Europe? Are you gonna see [00:06:00] more of these type of moves like the UK just did today, where they’re gonna put some prohibitions in? Or will there be some places that, uh, Chinese manufacturers can set up base?  Rosemary Barnes: To me, it’s really strange because it’s, it’s like you’re worried about security, so you don’t let them come bring their technology to your country. It’s. Like the, to me, the obvious thing is the other way around. If they’re worried about, um, technology transfer and IP theft, that they, um, should have prevented European wind turbine manufacturers from sitting up factories in China, because surely that’s how the big transfer of knowledge happened. Now China, you know that that’s where, that’s where they learn how to make win winter turbines 10, 20 years ago. Um, and what they’re doing today in China is, is not, it’s not like static from that. They have also developed their own, you know, their own ideas and taken the technology in a different direction. Why don’t we take the opportunity to learn from that? I, I find it a bit, [00:07:00] a bit funny that, um. Yeah, that you would ban a manufacturer from coming to your country because you’re concerned that they have, um, you know, copied or stolen your technology in the past and can’t see how they’re gonna do that by bringing their tech to your country. Matthew Stead: And how does that tie in with the discussion we had the other week about the tariffs and removal of tariffs on certain components? Um, Alan, do you know if that’s linked at all?  Allen Hall: I don’t think it’s linked. There hasn’t been any news articles about it. However, there’s gonna be a lot of hard choices made about where components do come from. That does seem like the UK government is thinking about what components can be made in the uk where UK engineering and technology can be applied to, to change the marketplace and where they want to go buy components. Uh, are they gonna buy them from China or are they gonna buy them from Poland or somewhere in Eastern Europe or somewhere in South America? There’s a lot of places to buy components today. Or India. I think India is obviously, uh, one of the top choices, [00:08:00] right? Just because it was a colony years ago. And there’s a relationship there between the UK and India. Is that where the technology transfer begins? Uh, instead of it with China? Probably so delamination and bottomline failures and blades are difficult problems to detect early. These hidden issues can cost you millions in repairs and lost energy production. C-I-C-N-D-T are specialists to detect these critical flaws before they become expensive burdens. Their non-destructive test technology penetrates deep into the label materials. To find voids and cracks. Traditional inspections completely. Miss C-I-C-N-D-T Maps. Every critical defect delivers actionable reports and provides support to get your blades back in service. So visit cic ndt.com because catching blade problems early will save you millions.[00:09:00] Alright, how tall is too tall? Well, for onshore wind, the answer keeps changing with. Nordics group just receiving its first order for a turbine with a hub height of. Drum roll please. 199 meters. So there must be some sort of limitation at 200 meters is where the limit is. So they came in one meter below it. It’s what it smells like.  Rosemary Barnes: The limitation would be on the tip height, not the hub height.  Matthew Stead: Should have been 200,  Allen Hall: just routed up to 200. See?  Rosemary Barnes: Yeah. But this is Germany, right? Where it’s like you, the number is what engineering says it should be, not what looks nice on a marketing brochure or in a press release. You know, if, if the tower should be 199.2 meters, then that’s what it will be.  Allen Hall: Well, three of these 199 meter towers rise up in a project in the North Rhine with Flia area of Germany, and it’s gonna drink power in a very [00:10:00] low wind speed region. Uh, the. Towers are gonna be constructed in typical Nordic fashion, and the, the top portion of the tower will be steel. The, the lower portion will be concrete. So you may be talking about what height for concrete are you talking about a 50 or a hundred meters of a concrete tower? That seems amazingly high because Nordex does a unique thing where they, they kind of jigsaw piece together and erected that way. I don’t. I think I’ve seen them do anything nearly that high. But, uh, there are other ways to get to that hub height, but it does seem like concrete and steel are gonna be the pathway. Are we gonna see more of this? Uh, as wind turbines move off the prime spots where the wind speeds are high, that instead of looking, putting more turbines where the wind speeds are high, you’re just gonna put. Really, really tall turbines up with massive rotor diameters to keep them spinning.  Rosemary Barnes: [00:11:00] Yeah. But I think it kind of makes sense in Europe, like this project, it’s three turbines, right? So if you had smaller turbines, like a smaller turbine might be cheaper per megawatt. Um, in terms of like if you have a really large wind farm with just a lot of them. But this site, you know, imagine they’ve got a triangular plot and they can put one turbine at each corner. They’ve really, really wanna maximize the amount of power that they can get from each, each turbine because it, you know, like on a small site, the area it’s capturing, it kind of extends past the, the edges of the land footprint, right? Because they’ve got, you know, such huge, huge turbines. So for those really small projects, I think that it is a different, um, equation that they’re calculating. For what the optimal turbine size is. And it, it does make sense to really go after every what that you can get from that site. Since you, you’ve got so few turbines that you can work with. Allen Hall: Well, they need unique construction methods to get the [00:12:00]blades that high and to get them the cell on top of the tower.  Rosemary Barnes: I guess a crane, a specialized crane will be the, a tricky thing.  Matthew Stead: And then how do you repair it? You know when, when you need to change a blade out, how you gonna get it? That crane bag. Uh, how, how, how are you gonna get up and down? I mean, it’s gonna take you half an hour to, in a little lift to get up. And what if you need to go to the toilet?  Allen Hall: Let’s get to the heart of the matter.  Yolanda Padron: Yeah. I mean, at least it’s only three, right?  Allen Hall: But it’s gonna take you how long to get up that tower if you’re in the lift. Those lifts don’t move that fast. And it isn’t like you’re in, you know, a modern office building where the elevators move very quickly. It’s gonna take a little bit of time. Uh, I guess things, things we’re gonna have to figure out, uh, because we have seen a number of technologies that, they talked about installing blades, using cables, and you see some of that more recently, but 200, roughly 200 meters high is a long way to go. So they must have a plan on how they’re going to do it.  Rosemary Barnes: So a co Google says that wind turbine [00:13:00] lifts slash elevators range from 0.3 meters per second to one meters per second. Um, I guess at your fast  Allen Hall: 200 seconds.  Rosemary Barnes: Yeah. So at at best, it’ll take you three and a half minutes to get up there and at worst. 10 minutes. Matthew Stead: So definitely a toilet up  Rosemary Barnes: there. There’s no way there’s a toilet up there. Kept real, Matt, they put toilets up in wind turbines, you hold it or you know, if you’re a gross man, then you just, you, you go off the side and they will tell you, you know, like when you. When you’re doing site, your site inductions, it’s like, oh, don’t park in this location because people pee there. Allen Hall: Are you downwind?  Rosemary Barnes: Yeah, your car could get hit.  Allen Hall: Do they have a wind sock at the bottom of each of the towers? Is that what’s going on?  Yolanda Padron: I mean, at least like 10 minutes isn’t too bad compared to like when you’re free climbing the smaller towers that didn’t have the lifts in them yet. Like that take, I mean, I might be slow. It took me like half an hour at least  Rosemary Barnes: Last [00:14:00] time I was on site, some of the team were climbing. ’cause that’s just the exercise that they get. And they climbed the same speed as the um, as the lift roughly. Um, but I don’t think they would do that over 200 meters. You know, I think, you know, there’s a difference at a hundred meters versus 200 meters of, of climbing like that. I mean, it makes sense. You don’t need a gym membership, you don’t need to go for a run after work ’cause you’ve got your exercise during the day.  Yolanda Padron: That’s after that.  Matthew Stead: I’m just wondering about how much it would actually be moving around, like when it’s, when it’s under maintenance, how much, um, horizontal sway you’d actually get. Rosemary Barnes: Yeah. I mean, already when you stand at the top of a, um, a wind turbine tower, you definitely feel it.  Matthew Stead: You’re getting sway.  Rosemary Barnes: Yeah. So. More than that, but it is, I mean, it’s, it’s evolution not revolution, right? Like, we’ve already got towers that are 160, 180 meters tall, so it’s a, a little bit more than that. It’s let’s not, let’s not get too crazy. It’s not changing the world, it’s just, [00:15:00] you know, we, we know all the bad problems for tall towers and these are a little bit worse,  Yolanda Padron: but it’s only pre, so it’s not a hundred big, big, big towers, right?  Allen Hall: I think you gotta be careful because it, when you get to these hub heights. Everybody on the ground in the neighborhood can see it forever. Uh, it does raise concerns. I know it will in the states. I don’t think you’ll ever see a hub height that high. It could be wrong on shore, but it, it wouldn’t seem like that would be a smart move for a lot of operators. ’cause there’s a lot more ground. Right. And the winds are pretty good in America, so you can just spread it out. But making taller turbines would be a big pushback I think, from society.  Rosemary Barnes: Then, which who, whose record are they breaking? I thought that they, this, yeah, this is the tallest hub height on shore.  Allen Hall: Their own.  Rosemary Barnes: But don’t we also have that announced project from Fortescue? What are their Tower Heights gonna be using the NRA lift technology a hundred, 180. Those are in the absolute middle of nowhere. There’s definitely no neighbors there that are [00:16:00] complaining about heights, but there’s also absolutely no shortage of land there. You know, have as many turbines as you want, so they’re. Doing it. Yeah. Like a totally different calculation to figure out what’s the optimal tower height. And they’ve come to similar conclusions. So that’s kind of interesting.  Yolanda Padron: Going back to the, the, you know, people complaining issue. I know of some communities who have benefited a lot from wind turbines in the states and like seeing them just because they know like, oh. Every time that’s spinning, like, I’m getting more this quarter. You know, like that, that’ll be my nice little bonus. It’s like, it’s a nice passive income. ’cause all they have to do is just have him there. Um, and so I think it, I mean it really depends on what the community is like over there and with regards to. How they would like, like whether or not they would like to see these huge things in their backyards or to Rosie’s point, if they’ll see them in their backyards. Right. Like it’s, it could just be like the middle of nowhere. [00:17:00] Rosemary Barnes: Yeah. I know in some parts of Europe people don’t mind too much. Like in Denmark, you’re never very far away. Or in Jutland, at least where I live, you’re never very far away from wind turbine. Like, I couldn’t see them. I probably could see one old one from my house, but, um, you know, like they’re, they’re not like looming over you. But people aren’t, aren’t so bothered as they would be in Australian suburbs or in parts of the us and also other parts of, like, Southern Germany is not so fond on wind turbines. So, you know, I think it, it just totally depends on where the area is as to how, how, how happy people are gonna be to, to see them in their daily life  Matthew Stead: or offshore Japan.  Rosemary Barnes: Yeah, I think the key is that you make them, you don’t want ’em to be so tall that someone can look at it, that isn’t benefiting from it. So. Like in the us if people are getting payments for the turbines, I’m sure they’re happy to look at them and just see dollar signs. But if you are the neighbor whose site was supposed to have a turbine and then they redrew the wind farm and now it doesn’t have a turbine, if you can still see them, they’re gonna piss you off every time you, you [00:18:00] see them. I think so probably really depends.  Allen Hall: The Tavis billing in Germany is the Commerce Bank at 259 meters. So these turbines will be bigger than that, or taller than that? Yeah,  Matthew Stead: the whole of Germany. Wow.  Allen Hall: As wind energy professionals staying informed is crucial and let’s face it difficult. That’s why the Uptime podcast recommends PES Wind Magazine. PES Wind offers a diverse range of in-depth articles and expert insights that dive into the most pressing issues facing our energy future. Whether you’re an industry veteran or new to wind, PES Wind has the high quality content you need. Don’t miss out. Visit PS win.com today. While wind turbines and bats have always had an uneasy relationship, now researchers in Germany have found a surprising reason why bats keep flying into the danger zone. Male bats are using wind turbines as song purs, circling the the cells while [00:19:00] singing courtship calls to attract female bats. A study from the Museum of Nature and in Germany analyze more than. 80,000 audio recordings from its six German turbine sites and found bat songs right in the rotor web zone. The songs draw females tore the turbines, which helps explain why more females than males are found hurt underneath the turbines. During mating season, uh, researchers say smarter curtailment strategies based on the behavior. It could reduce fatalities and without sacrificing too much energy production. So this is a unique, uh, aspect of bats. I guess there’s a mating process that happens where the bats are chirping and the females come together, but the, the, it’s not a very successful strategy if you run your mate into a winter turbine plate that’s not really accomplishing the goal. [00:20:00] However, the, the turbine curtailment. Period would actually be limited. Right. So you would know when the bats are out doing this little disco dance or whatever they’re going doing out in Germany. What kind of, what kind of dance does Germany do right now? What, what’s, what’s the end dance in Germany? Rosemary must know,  Rosemary Barnes: I think it’s still, still pretty, pretty electronic and um, in Berlin the last time I was there anyway,  Allen Hall: so electronic music. Okay. Well, maybe they can play some electronic music and push the male bats away ’cause that’s probably what it’ll do. But the, this leads back to a lot of discussions about birds and bats in the United States and around the world where there’s just different things happening in every site and we, we tend to wanna have one engineering answer for the worldwide bat and bird community. And that’s not going to be the answer. You’re gonna have to do a little bit of homework. And Rosemary has pointed this out numbers of times in regards to painting one blade. Black and that that was one experiment and one place, and it’s not transferrable. This could als this, uh, [00:21:00] bat dance span song issue. Could be very local.  Rosemary Barnes: Yeah, that’s right. I, I think it’s a, at least a second project with the one blade black thing. But thanks for. Preemptively raising that? I guess so. No, I see everywhere. All over social media. Oh, all you need to do is paint one blade black. Anyway, moving on from that. I, I think you’re right that it’s gonna be highly localized. It’s gonna depend on the specific kind of bat. Um, and, you know, probably a specific population of bat as well. I know, um, in the US at least, and it’s probably true around the world. There has been a, a massive increase in the amount of funding available for bat scientists, uh, since wind farms started being built and people realized that they affect bats. So I bet that there’s some, some bat scientists who is just, you know, geeking out over. Just, you know, this new information that they have about the way that, um, bat mating rituals happen. So that’s pretty interesting. It does make me [00:22:00] sad though that, um, yeah, these, these poor bats just trying to fall in love and find a partner and. Make baby bats and instead they’re getting whacked by a wind turbine. That, yeah, that, that’s not great. I hope that they’re able to pretty, pretty promptly learn enough to be able to at least, you know, stop the turbines and then, you know, they can work on refining it so that they reduce the, um, the losses, um, in order to do that over time. Allen Hall: Yolanda, you live in one of the back capitals of the world?  Yolanda Padron: I do, yeah.  Allen Hall: I mean.  Yolanda Padron: I’m, I’m not, I cannot say I’m a bad expert at all, but I am really curious to see exactly like. Whether these bats would, or this type of bat would do a similar thing to other tall structures, or if it’s just dependent on structures that move like turbines or have some component that moves. Or is it just a turbine specific thing? Because I mean, we have bat season right now [00:23:00] in Austin, so like you have all the bats coming out at Sunset, and it’s this huge. Thing and you’ll see them in like tall buildings, but they’ve, not one bat has ever hit my window in my apartment in the whole like four years that I’ve been here. And a lot of birds have hit it because, I mean, I think birds are slightly dumber than bats, some of them at least.  Allen Hall: Whoa, easy  Rosemary Barnes: bats are amazing though. Like, think, think about it. They have developed sonar capabilities. They’re mammals just like us. They can fly. We had to develop fighter jets, basically like billions of dollars spent on defense programs to develop the capabilities that bats have just evolved for themselves. So I think that you do have to give bats a whole lot of credit. I think you have to give birds a lot of credit too. There’s a lot of very smart birds, but birds do fly into stationary things in a way. Bats don’t seem as likely to. What you do see in Australia is a lot of bats, um, electrocute themselves on power [00:24:00] lines if they, ’cause our bats are quite big here. Matthew Stead: Um, but I was thinking, um, you know, like, uh, a way of keeping away males from shopping malls is to play elevator music, so maybe they could change the sound that. Around the turbine, and maybe they could play like elevator music rather than disco music.  Allen Hall: I, I, I, I like you a lot. This question like, why are they there? Like what’s, what’s attracting the bats to the turbines to begin with? Why are the male bats there? What’s their echolocation something?  Rosemary Barnes: But I mean, these are questions, I’m sure bat scientists asking these questions, and now they’ll probably have funding open up to them to know the answer. So I like, I, I think. There’s, there’s pluses and minuses. There’s obviously minuses for the bats that are being affected right now, but in the long term I think that it’s, you know, it’s good for the field of bat science. I’m sure that there’s like some, um, technical name for a bat scientist, and I’m sorry, I dunno it. Chiro neurologist. Chiro neurologist. [00:25:00] I.  Allen Hall: If that another episode of the Uptime Wind Energy Podcast. If today’s discussion sparked any questions or ideas, we’d love to hear from you. Reach out to us on LinkedIn, and if you found value in today’s conversation, please leave us a review. It really helps other wind energy professionals discover the show For Rosie, Yolanda and Matthew, I’m Allen Hall and we’ll see you here next week on the Uptime Wind Energy Podcast.

Denmark’s royal trade mission brings 54 companies to Australia’s renewables market. Plus the UK opens CFD allocation round eight for up to 18 offshore wind farms, and wind tech startups weigh focus against diversification into defense. Sign up now for Uptime Tech News, our weekly newsletter on all things wind technology. This episode is sponsored by Weather Guard Lightning Tech. Learn more about Weather Guard’s StrikeTape Wind Turbine LPS retrofit. Follow the show on YouTube, Linkedin and visit Weather Guard on the web. And subscribe to Rosemary’s “Engineering with Rosie” YouTube channel here. Have a question we can answer on the show? Email us!  The Uptime Wind Energy Podcast brought to you by Strike Tape, protecting thousands of wind turbines from lightning damage worldwide. Visit strike tape.com And now your hosts. Allen Hall: Welcome to the Uptime Wind Energy Podcast. I’m here with Yolanda Padron, Rosemary Barnes at Matthews Stead, and we start off. On the Danish trip to Australia, 54 Danish companies traveled to Australia alongside King Frederick II and Queen Mary. Uh, over the past week, most work in the renewable energy and green construction businesses that traveled along several signed agreements during the trip. Denmark sees Australia as a growth market, and Rosemary is tied to royalty here. Loosely that Queen Mary is actually from Tasmania, much like Rosemary. [00:01:00] So there is possibly a line to the throne, the Danish throne for Rosemary.  Rosemary Barnes: My dad’s from Tasmania. I, I live in Canberra, but I was, the whole five years I was living in Denmark, I kept waiting for Princess. She was Princess Mary at that point, but Princess Mary to get in touch with her phone number, catch up. You know, Australians have moved to Denmark. Never happened. And now I see that they’ve come to Australia. And do you think that Mary reached out and got in touch with me? No, she didn’t. So I continue, continue to be disappointed in, in Queen Mary. Matthew Stead: Maybe she’s waiting for you, Rosie.  Rosemary Barnes: Yeah, she could be waiting for me to reach out. That’s true.  Allen Hall: But I clearly, Australia is a growth market. Denmark sees it. I know there’s been a number of Danish companies in Australia over the last two, three years, or con companies from all over the world have been down to Australia, realizing that the growth of renewables is gonna be big because Australia is targeting 82% renewables by 2030. Uh, and right now it’s about 50% renewables, which is [00:02:00] remarkable by the way, that connection to Denmark. Is only going to grow, especially with the relationship with Queen Mary to the area. What are some of the growth areas that Denmark can walk into in Australia right now, Matthew?  Matthew Stead: I mean, obviously the proposed offshore wind is a, is a big thing. So, um, once that gets up and running, obviously the Danish technology will come in there. Um, but, but also, you know, through vest have been here forever. Uh, Siemens, gaa, you know, there’s a strong Danish connection there. Um, so. Yeah, I, I think it’s already, already, already really strong. And, um, obviously having the, the queen, the Danish queen, um, yeah. Ties in with all of that.  Allen Hall: Is it a reciprocal agreement that Australians can do work in Denmark?  Rosemary Barnes: I don’t think, it’s not any sort of like free trade agreement, is it? It’s just some individual, I dunno how much we’ve, we’ve got to [00:03:00]teach Denmark, although there are some good Australian technologies, like maybe not building wind turbines themselves, but there are some good technologies like here, logic’s Ping, uh, Australian developed the ping part of it anyway. And then also, you know, I think some, some future manufacturing methods, uh, doing some exciting things here in Australia. Also, it’s not that hard to move to Denmark if you, um, like when I moved there, all I needed to get a Visa was a, a job offer. That was a certain, I, I don’t think it, I don’t, I don’t remember exactly if it was the type of job or if it was the salary, but you know, like you’re not gonna get a job offer. Like working part-time at a bar isn’t gonna be enough to get you a, a working visa in Denmark. But certainly. Any engineers, um, you can, if you get a good engineering position offered to you in Denmark, it’s not hard for the company to make that happen. So I don’t know that we need, we don’t, we don’t really need it made that much easier for us [00:04:00] to get over there. Allen Hall: Is it difficult to get a work permit in Australia if you’re from Denmark?  Rosemary Barnes: Yes and no. It’s not like I would so love to be hiring my XLM colleagues to come. I know that I’d moved to Australia too. Some of them, it’s, it’s not super duper easy. Um. It’s not impossible. And uh, if people are young enough, it’s a bit easier. But, um, it’s, it’s definitely possible, but it’s not, it’s not straightforward. It’s quite expensive and lengthy process.  Matthew Stead: You know, if they can fund a fund, um, themselves with a couple of million dollars, that’ll make it easier.  Rosemary Barnes: It’s definitely beyond my capabilities as a small company of like four, four people to be able to, um, sponsor someone. But I have had, um, actually. Most, maybe. Yeah. Every single employee actually that I’ve had has been, has non, not an Australian citizen, but they’ve all had visas for other reasons. You know, either because they came over with a partner who, um, was an unskilled working visa or because they did a master’s [00:05:00] here and then got a, um, a, yeah, after that got permanent residency through the, you know, the, there’s a pretty established pathway after studying to be able to get permanent residency. Definitely appreciate that there is so much, um, international talent that’s willing to come to Australia, but just yeah, unfortunately any, any random skilled person, you, it’s not, it’s not easy for a small company to bring them over.  Matthew Stead: Rosie, would you recommend Australians to go to Denmark to learn about the wind industry and then, and come back again like you did? Rosemary Barnes: I recommend that they do that in 2016 when I did it. Um, so everyone who’s got a time machine. Hop, hop in, hop in your time machine and go, go do that. I mean, it’s, uh, I was looking back through, um, photos, uh, of my time there recently and was just, uh, like thinking about how much work I did and the amount of time that I spent like in, in production is like I got in my. Four years that I was working for lm, I had at least 10 years worth of experience. And I mean there were [00:06:00] some long, long weeks, but I’m not sure that Denmark’s the right place now because for LM there’s nearly no engineering left in Denmark and certainly not doing the cool, new, exciting technologies that they were while I was there. So that’s not the go Vestas is still doing a fair bit. But you know, we talked recently about the Vestas CO wanting to, wanting to move somewhere with more favorable. Taxation of CEOs salaries. So, you know, maybe that’s not continuing. So I definitely recommend moving to another part of the world early on in your career while you’ve still got enough energy to, to, to like really, really hard work. Um, but I dunno that Denmark is, is the right place anymore. There’s not that much manufacturing left Now.  Based on your experience in both Denmark and Australia, how likely do you think that any of these companies that are coming in. To Australia will do any r and d with data from Australia for all of these wind technologies that they’re bringing. Rosemary Barnes: I, I think that there’s some interest in that. I haven’t heard [00:07:00] Danish companies specifically. I have heard a few little inklings of US companies who are interested and I think that that makes a lot of sense because the US was a much more attractive environment for wind energy technologies until a couple of years ago. So there’s a lot of companies that got partway and now are frustrated and I think that Australia seems quite attractive to them. So that’s where I’ve heard people interested, maybe British as well. Um, the Denmark Danish companies would do well. Like any company, um, that’s trying to develop a technology related to wind energy would, um, do really well to come try and develop in Australia because, you know, like, um, we’re so short staffed or like for expert staff. Things are really spread out. Costs are very high. Um, things wear out faster. Like we just have more operational problems here. So, you know, when you’re putting a business case together, you need to, um, you know, an environment where you are. The alternative of just doing everything manually is [00:08:00]far more expensive here, and it takes far longer so you can get a much more positive business case, um, in Australia, like earlier than you could somewhere else. So I think that that makes it really. Really like perfect place to develop technologies. Um, yeah, but I don’t think everybody realizes that yet. But I do see some, some people starting to,  Matthew Stead: and I’m adding to what you’re saying, Rosie, when I first started in wind, um, back in 2012, um, I got great reception from Denmark. Actually, I probably got the most. Positive responses to my outreach from Denmark. So, um, I, at that point in time, you know, it is a little bit before 2016, but, um, um, um, I, you know, I found really positive engagement and willingness to be open to new technologies. So that was my experience  Allen Hall: as Wind energy professionals. Staying informed is crucial, and let’s face it difficult. That’s why the Uptime podcast recommends PES Wind Magazine. [00:09:00] PES Wind offers a diverse range of in-depth articles and expert insights that dive into the most pressing issues facing our energy future. Whether you’re an industry veteran or new to wind, PES Wind has the high quality content you need. Don’t miss out. Visit PES wind.com today. The UK government announced contracts for difference allocation round eight, which will open in July of this year. This follows AR seven in January, which secured 8.4 gigawatts of offshore wind. The largest UK CFD procurement ever and renewable UK says up to 18 offshore wind farms could compete for this AR eight round now. The amount of wind going in offshore in the UK is astonishing. Uh, AR eight. I haven’t seen any numbers yet of what they think the total gigawatts will be, but it has to be somewhere around the eight range just to keep up with the [00:10:00] expected rate, uh, to meet their environmental targets and electricity targets in the uk. This is changing the way wind is developed in Europe, especially with the UK changing its tariffs and eliminating tariffs on wind turbine parts and components that come into the country. That is going to really improve the economics of wind turbines in the uk. Plus turn out a lot of European countries and companies to to feed the UK energy goals. Is this the right move in, in terms of the government approach? Because a lot of, uh, other auctions that have happened up in Germany all the way up into Scandinavia have not had such success as this recent UK round. Is their model just a little bit different? And maybe the UK approach is, is the winning method with the the CFDs. Rosemary Barnes: We have some in Australia too. The A [00:11:00] CT Australian Capital Territory where I live has the same thing and, um, for at least several years. Recently, I think most years recently we’ve had our electricity prices in Canberra have been reduced while in the rest of Australia they’ve gone up. It doesn’t always happen that way. Um, it depends on, yeah, how expensive. Electricity was compared to normal. But you know, like when the gas, uh, shock was happening and pushing up electricity prices everywhere, it didn’t affect Canberra very much because we already have PPAs for a hundred percent of our electricity from clean sources. So,  Allen Hall: but isn’t that the goal at the end of the day to get. Some levelized pricing, which is the allocation rounds are doing, is they’re getting levelized pricing over a fixed period, so you know what your electricity is going to cost you. None of this up and down, like with the gas market in the United States and elsewhere.  Rosemary Barnes: My understanding is that it’s the most crucial aspect of that is certainty, so that new projects can get financing.[00:12:00] It’s not actually about it being a, like, whether it’s a subsidy or a payment is not as important as, like, it’s not that that renewable electricity is too expensive and the government needs to subsidize it. It’s that the bank needs to know how, how much you’re gonna get for the electricity that you generate, um, in order to fuel Okay, to lend it to you. And I mean, you can understand why, like, think about. As, um, batteries enter the electricity grid, you, you know, the pricing, the market movements throughout a day are really starting to change. We used to have, you know, like big spikes in price every evening as a lot of gas generators came on. ’cause they’re expensive to run. But now we’re needing less and less of that as we add more batteries. And, you know, people know these. Trends are generally happening, but not exactly. So how can you forecast what your revenue is going to be? Um, if you’re lending billions of dollars to a project, then you want to know that your person you’re lending to is gonna be able to, to pay you back, which they, they can’t if the revenue goes through the floor. So, yeah, my [00:13:00] understanding is that’s, that’s what it’s really for, is to provide the certainty. It’s, it’s like a bit outdated to refer to it as a subsidy. Um, ’cause it’s not always a subsidy. Sometimes it’s the opposite. But what’s really needed is like knowing how much you’re gonna get for the product that you are delivering. I think it makes sense. I just think that like if there’s all this, all the changes that are coming down the pipeline for the uk, it’s a little bit difficult to actually pinpoint where that price is gonna be. Like a sweet spot for all parties involved. Um. Which I think is something that we saw on the PPA side a lot in the US a few years ago. Rosemary Barnes: They had issues in the UK as well, like a couple of auctions ago. Um, they set the price way too low and I mean, they were told leading up to it, no one can deliver a project at this cost and then nobody bid. And it was, it was a real shame because, you know, like it set them back on, you know, that there’s no projects entered the pipeline, um, in that year as a result. But it’s also what’s interesting to [00:14:00] me is that it’s a different price for different. Types of project. So, you know, onshore wind has a, a different safety price than a, um, offshore wind. And fixed offshore wind has a very different price from floating offshore. Solar’s different. They also have special, uh, price for tidal energy. And that to me is a really interesting thing because who is looking at the UK’s energy mix and saying, yep, title energy needs to be part of this, and we we’re happy to pay, you know, 2, 3, 4 times whatever it is, more. For that than for offshore wind. It’s, um, that, that’s interesting to me. How, how they’ve come up with, with the Yeah, like how the mix is going to look. I mean, they don’t control it precisely. It’s not like they say we are gonna have exactly this many gigawatts for offshore wind and exactly this many gigawatts for solar farms. But they do have, um, different prices and different technologies that are targeted.  Matthew Stead: Seems like it really relates really well to the energy [00:15:00]security as well. You know, an extra eight gigawatt here, extra eight gigawatt there. I mean, that can only help with energy security, which is obviously a massive topic. I’m not sure how the newspapers has been coping in the last week or so in the us but over here it’s all about rationing of fuel. It’s all about queues at the pump. So energy security is, is definitely a huge topic.  Rosemary Barnes: You wanna know where there isn’t a queue. In my driveway when I plug my car into the, the outlet in my garage. It’s been a really, really fun time to be a smug EV owner. I’ve been, um, reveling in it. Yeah. Really, really, really enjoying, uh. And Joan, but I also do think like it’s gonna last, like we, because we still talk about the oil crisis in the 1970s, right? Like that, uh, we, uh, people overreacted and then reverted for the most part pretty quickly after that. With Denmark being one exception, they, they went all in on when consistently after that. Um, but [00:16:00] you know, like this, even if it’s only a few weeks long, this little shock is going to. Make people think, okay, oh, I was super worried that I might have to spend 20 minutes refueling on a road trip instead of 10 minutes. Um, but actually remember that time when I couldn’t even get petrol at all and I had to spend yeah, like half an hour lining up because everyone was freaking out and. Uh, I wasn’t sure if I was even gonna be able to get to work the next week because the Australian government only thinks we need 30 days worth of, um, of oil in reserve. Uh, I, I think that it’s, it’s got to help EV sales and then. The EV sales is only one part of it because you need then also, you know, security of electricity generation. And I mean, in Australia we’ve got our own coal, so we’re not, um, probably ever going to be able to not generate electricity. But, um, renewables is a, is a huge part of that as well, being able to, you know, have cheap, cheap electricity all the time. So I, I do think that. It, it’s got to be, you [00:17:00] know, helping some of these technologies move, move ahead a little bit faster now.  Matthew Stead: Yeah, and I also heard that, uh, the UK is sort of patting themselves on the bat for, uh, actually, you know, transitioning and, you know, securing their own, um, energy supply and not being as reliant as some other countries on imports of, of energy. Rosemary Barnes: Yeah. I mean, we’ve had so many opportunities to learn that lesson over the last few years. Right. So. Anybody that just, um, relaxes after this and says, yep, okay, we’re all good. To go back to relying a hundred percent on, on gas is, you know, like, really. Really going to big lengths to nod to not futureproof themselves from the next one. I do. Do we could, would anybody believe that this is the last time that we’re gonna see, uh, a shock like this? I mean, it will happen definitely. Again,  Matthew Stead: rather embarrassing, but actually currently I own approximately six EVs.  Allen Hall: It sounds like a lot. Matthew,  Rosemary Barnes: you’ll have people beating down your door. Share. Share the love around. We need, it  Allen Hall: should give taxi rides. [00:18:00] Ubers  Matthew Stead: in 2026. I wanna sell, I wanna sell three of them. So this is just. I’m just so happy.  Rosemary Barnes: So message ’em on LinkedIn if you need an ev. Now we’re running classified ads in the uptime When new podcast  Allen Hall: are they? BMW electrified? BMWs  Matthew Stead: no one’s. One’s BMW. Um, another one is, uh, Austin 10. From 1947,  Allen Hall: this is an ad.  Matthew Stead: The other one’s in Nissan Leaf, uh, NISO leaf with about 16,000 Ks on the clock.  Rosemary Barnes: But the first two you converted yourself.  Matthew Stead: Yeah,  Allen Hall: we can reach out to Matthew on LinkedIn and he will sell you an electric vehicle. He’s in Adelaide and there’s plenty of people listening to the podcast in Adelaide and all around Australia. Honestly, he, he will deliver. If asked, so Matthew Stead, S-T-E-A-D on LinkedIn.  Matthew Stead: The BMW that I converted is a 2 0 2, um, from 19 in the the seventies. And, uh, actually BMW um, converted the same car to an electric vehicle for the Munich [00:19:00] Olympics. So yeah, all I did was, um, recreated what. BMW had done back in 1972. Allen Hall: Delamination and bottomline. Failures and blades are difficult problems to detect early. These hidden issues can cost you millions in repairs and lost energy production. C-I-C-N-D-T are specialists to detect these critical flaws before they become expensive burdens. Their non-destructive test technology penetrates deep to blade materials to find voids and cracks. Traditional inspections, completely. Miss C-I-C-N-D-T Maps. Every critical defect delivers actionable reports and provides support to get your blades. Back in service, so visit cic ndt.com because catching blade problems early will save you millions. Well, south Korean Drone Company Earth Lab built its vision AI [00:20:00]through wind turbine inspections, and I’ve seen hundreds of those in the states. A $10 million defense export deal in 2025 shifted revenue from 80% inspections to. A much larger defense share. Now they have a, a pretty sizable deal, obviously in the Middle East right now, where they’re using their drone technology to be involved in the defense sector. And North Lab I think got driven to that just because, uh, some of their business in the United States didn’t turn out properly the way they expected it to, although they had. Really great technology. In every conference I would attend with Ner lab, like, uh, and they would explain what they were doing. At one point, they were probably three or four years ahead on the, doing your own drone inspections with the little drone and you just buy their software and it would just, it would go up and take pictures of your wind turbine. Didn’t need a separate [00:21:00] pilot. It, it made all things a lot simpler, but that did never seem to catch on. But the technology is there and North Lab does have good engineering teams to develop drone technology. One of the things about this article, which I, I saw the other day, is that North Labs is thinking about their technology in a broader sense. That they’re not just focused on wind turbine inspections. And we see companies that are only tied to wind quite often. The struggle when wind slows down like it’s doing right now, where an Earth Lab is thinking about the problem a little bit differently and saying, I have this technology. It solves a bunch of problems. Maybe we ought to explore those other problem areas and see if we could generate some revenue. And clearly they have. Is that good advice for the wind industry in terms of technology companies is not to just focus on wind, but to think about solutions for adjacent industries? Does that just broaden the portfolio enough where? It keeps your, [00:22:00] it keeps your company viable for longer periods of time.  Matthew Stead: This is a huge topic for us because, um, you know, our technologies can be applied to, you know, rail mining defense, you know, so we’ve, we’ve got sensors which can instrument a whole range of things. Like, you know, we can listen for a conveyor belt when it’s failing. We can measure the ice. On the platform next to a railway line, we can measure ice on an aircraft. Um, you know, with our sensors we can do so much. Um, and um, what we’ve decided is that we need to really conquer. Wind in a nice way, as in, you know, actually help the wind industry first. So we really need to, um, you know, focus there. But, you know, we, we’ve all always been sort of dragged into other industries. Um, but, you know, I think being a technology startup is all about focus. Um, but, you know, revenue is hard. Um, you know, gaining traction is hard. The industry [00:23:00] is hard. Um, so I can see why it might be attractive to, to look at other, other verticals. Um, yeah, so it’s, it’s a, it’s, it’s a reality of a technology startup, unfortunately, that you need to look for other applications for your tech. And, and the other thing is, you know, obviously if we can sell our sensors. Into say, mining or, or rail or whatever. Then it can lower the cost and then, you know, that benefits wind as well. Allen Hall: Well, there’s other technology developments can happen in those other industries you could bring into wind makes both avenues possible. Yeah. A lot of industries are gonna benefit from the technology that has been evolved from wind turbines growth into other industries. But it works both ways and it just adds complexity to the business. But to me it’s complexity you have to take on.  Rosemary Barnes: Yeah, I’ve worked with a bunch of startups through my career and I’m trying to think of even one that hasn’t had a defense project at some point. It’s very, very common for development, like, um, [00:24:00]technologies that are in development. Is a very appealing avenue to get funds because, you know, defense spends a lot of, a lot of money on developing new technologies. I’m sure that’s true in every country, not just Australia. Um, and they’re also prepared to, like, if you’ve got a capability that they want, they are like, you don’t, it’s not so commercially cutthroat, you know, like they are prepared to pay a lot for something that, um, has unique capabilities. So I do see that that is incredibly attractive to startups, but I really like what Matt said when he said that as a startup you’ve gotta stay focused because that is what the startups that I have worked with in the past nine, outta 10 of them have done the opposite. They’re just like trying to grab any grant that they think that they could possibly, you know, um, apply for. Then they win it and then now all of a sudden they’ve got a project in a direction that is not. Taking them to their actual business. It’s, you know, it’s not step on the way towards their bus achieving their business goals. Um, and it’s like, [00:25:00] what is the startup for? Are you trying to commercialize a technology or find out if, if it’s not possible and stop? Or are you trying to just keep on working on this as long as possible? And I think that, like, honestly, nine outta 10 of the startups that I’ve worked with, it’s the the latter where they just want to keep on doing cool stuff. Then yeah. Grabbing any, any grant that you can to continue working on that. And a lot of them are defense. Um, makes a lot of sense. But I, I do think that, you know, you’ve got to be goal oriented, keep your eyes on the prize and, um, yeah, like Matt said, say focus if you wanna succeed as a startup,  Allen Hall: you think that’s a difference between grants and actual business? I agree with you, Rosemary. When you get hooked into a grant that has a particular outcome and you tend to deviate from what the market. Once, because you’re not listening to the market when you’re going through this grant process, but if you’re in a second business area, it may make sense just because you have a customer, you’re learning from that experience. A lot of things between wind and the other industries are similar in [00:26:00]terms of the way they’re structured, the demands, the expectations, the. It’s, it’s close.  Rosemary Barnes: Grants are amazing when it’s the right grant, and you shouldn’t choose a grant for the sake of getting the money. You should choose it because it helps you achieve something that you wanted to achieve anyway. Um, I think that that’s what you’ve gotta, gotta consider. Um, and yeah, definitely don’t turn down free money if it’s available to help you, you know, get to where you need to get, but don’t deviate on. A bunch of side quests just because you can get funding for that.  Matthew Stead: I think half the battle is that, uh, half the challenge of commercialization is actually the industry. So half, half the challenge is the technology and r and d and making stuff, but the other half is actually knowing the industry, knowing how to price it, knowing the people, knowing where to sell it, you know, knowing the return on investment. So every time you go into a new market, you might think, oh yeah, I’ll just reapply what I’ve already learned. But that’s, that’s. Definitely not true. So your rail is completely different from [00:27:00] wind. Um, in terms of the actual market, the tech, the tech might be the same, the same for, you know, aerospace.  Rosemary Barnes: Yeah. I see that a lot with companies that are trying to take a, a technology that they have from another area and try and bring it into wind. And people are always shocked at. At how different, um, wind energy is. I mean, in terms of the physical operating environment, that’s a, a shock for most companies to start with. It’s like, like in several aspects, it wouldn’t be a more harsh operating environment than, you know, sticking something in or on a wind turbine blade and expecting it to last without maintenance for 20, 30 years. Um, but then also just the way that the, the market works. But it’s interesting that you say 50 50, it’s half about the technology. Do you reckon it’s even half? I, I have come to believe that the technology is like, yeah, like really understanding the problem is and, and knowing that there is a need for a solution. Is the vast majority of the way there, there are so many good engineers in the world that they will find, find the solution if they know exactly what problem they should be solving. [00:28:00] I, I reckon it’s less than 50%. I don’t know about 10%, but, um, certainly I don’t think it’s 50 50.  Matthew Stead: Yeah. Maybe it depends on what, what stage of development it is and, you know, what, what maturity level you’re at, perhaps. Rosemary Barnes: Yeah. I mean, your company started. From a, um, you, you didn’t just think, Hey, I want, you know, I know a lot about noise. I wonder what technology I can develop with this. You, you started from, Hey, we’ve got a, a, a problem that, uh, I don’t wanna, you know, um, tell your origin story for you, but you started with a, a problem and a potential solution and then, you know, went from there. Right? So,  Matthew Stead: yeah, Bre, you know, I, I think B would be happy for me to say his name, Bre, basically throughout a challenge saying. But, you know, technicians can hear, um, blade damage. So, you know, it should be really simple and easy to make a machine to do the same as what a human can do.  Rosemary Barnes: And it was simple and easy, right? Matthew Stead: Ah, yeah. It was so easy. Look, look at all that, all that gray hair.  Allen Hall: Well, I think that’s the trouble, right? Is that [00:29:00] if you want to be tied to an industry, hopefully you hit it during a peak time. Because there are ebbs and flows to every economy about every seven years. There’s always something cataclysmic that happens. You just don’t wanna be in that down cycle. You want to be in the upcycle and have something ready to go. When the upcycle hits, you’ll see a lot of businesses do that. In the aerospace, you see it quite a bit that they’ll kind of go dormant and then when they feel like the, the economy is going to boom, they’ll ramp up operations real quick and, and try to make their money while the kidding is good. Then slow it down when it’s not. They have taken a, a more longer term perspective on it. Large businesses can do that. ’cause usually they’re stockpiling cash to, to manage that. Small businesses don’t usually have the cash flow to get over those, uh, lean times. And that’s the trouble. I, I think a lot of companies that I know, in fact. Rosemary and I are working on a project and a couple of names of companies that were in [00:30:00] Wind two, three years ago popped up and I thought they had such great technology and the business model was right. It just hit a rough patch. That’s all it was, and that if you revive that technology a year from now, it would still be applicable. You could still sell that product. It’s just trying to manage the cash flow. It’s hard because I, and back to Rosemary’s point. How much of it is the technology? Uh, and I, I say 10%, and I think that’s roughly right from my experience. A lot of it is everything else. Managing the books, managing your risks, people, uh, all that manufacturing, right, all quality, all every, all that’s involved. And it’s, unless you do it, you don’t realize it. It’s hard to see it unless you’re on the inside. You know, the inside. You think every minute is some other. Major calamity that you have to manage. If you don’t manage it right, you may not make it out the other [00:31:00] side. That’s what small businesses are all about. But it’s, that’s what makes it so hard.  Rosemary Barnes: Yeah. I know that at Parlo we’re spending a lot more effort on understanding the problems that people need solved, um, rather than developing solutions, which has been a bit of a tough thing for me to. Kind of, uh, stick to because, uh, you know, I’m an engineer. I’ve developed products my whole career and that I, I love tinkering and, you know, like making things work and doing things that haven’t been done before. But I, I, I do think that there is a real, real need for, um, understanding the problem really well, understanding, um, what solutions are available and, and fitting them together. I think that that is actually a really, um, a, a really needed part of the, you know, the whole wind energy ecosystem.  Allen Hall: We had a listener reach out from Japan, Sini Kajima, who was a city counselor in one of the cities, in obviously in Japan, who was a regular listener and. He wrote in [00:32:00] about some of the wind turbine installations that are going on in sort of northern western Japan. They’ve installed some eight megawatt turbines about a mile, 1.6 kilometers offshore, and that’s creating a lot of concern for the local residents there. Those are big turbines, and they’re talking about using 15 megawatt turbines to do something similar and. As, uh, advocate for, uh, the, the city he’s advocating, uh, a 10 kilometer minimum setback in the national diet in Japan. You’re gonna see a lot more of this come up, I think. And the pictures that was sent along with it is pretty, um, eye-opening in that you got this really big turbine, really close to shore. Are we going to put setbacks [00:33:00] in as, uh, a regulation or law in some of these territories, like especially Northern Japan where there is great wind resources, amazing wind resources, but at the same time, there’s a lot of people who live there that will like to have some view of the ocean, not just turbines in the water right off the coastline. This is not just a Japanese problem, but it does seem to be a, a big problem ’cause of the, the way the Continental shelf is around Japan, it drops up pretty quick.  Rosemary Barnes: Yeah, exactly. It’s not a specific Japanese problem, and I mean, in most cases there’s development approvals and people have plenty of opportunity to express their displeasure at where turbines are cited. But for Japan, it wouldn’t be as simple as saying, okay, we just increase the offset dis distance by a little bit because you increase the, I’m assuming these turbines are cited already as far out as they can be while still being fixed bottom. And if you wanted to push them further away, then you move to floating and you double or triple the cost, [00:34:00] which Japan is looking into floating offshore wind a lot. Um, but Japan. Has no, has no easy options. I mean, Japan likes electricity as much as every other country does. They don’t want to rely on nuclear as much as they have been, which is, you know, probably, at least to a certain extent, understandable. They don’t have great solar resources. I mean, they have some, um, and they could do more. They don’t have good onshore wind opportunities. They have geothermal potential, but they don’t like that so much because their, um, NAL hot springs are, you know, a very important tourism industry and very important culturally. So they’re worried about doing anything that would mess that up. The offshore wind solution, this particular environment haven’t seen, it doesn’t sound like the best situated project, but take any other option that they’ve got for generating electricity in Japan and it has. Probably equal disadvantages. I just think that they have a, a hard problem and [00:35:00] have to choose which compromise they wanna make.  Allen Hall: Mr. Kuma brings up a couple of points here that. There’s about 150 residents that are at risk of insomnia from the wind turbine noise, and they’re concerned about the migratory zones for protected wildlife. In this case, geese about five kilometers offshore.  Rosemary Barnes: Then there might be birds that are affected, and if they are, they can use technologies to spot the birds. Stop the turbines. Like there’s, there’s, you know. Dozens of success stories, um, related to birds and wind turbines. That’s, that’s a solved problem. The noise, I mean, how far away are they? Matt’s the noise expert. Like how, how far away from a wind turbine do you have to be before you can even hear it over the wind noise?  Matthew Stead: Uh, the wind turbine noise is not gonna be an issue.  Allen Hall: So then it comes down to sight lines. And Japan has some of the most beautiful coastline in the world. Rosemary Barnes: I mean, I’m not gonna tell someone that they should, like looking at wind turbines, like I would also rather not look at a wind turbine if I could be looking at an ocean view or a mountain view or whatever. But any energy project would [00:36:00] be nicer if it wasn’t there in the first place. Like, you know, there’s not like a beautiful coal power plant to look at. There’s not a beautiful transmission line to look at. There’s not a beautiful petrol pump, um, to look at. Like, none of none. None of these things are like beautiful technologies that we enjoy interacting with on our daily lives, but we prefer to, you know, have the trade off of having that infrastructure. And trade off for the, the benefits that it brings. And, um, you know, there’s, in that sense, there’s nothing different about renewable energy technologies. It’s different, different trade offs, but they’re always gonna be there.  Allen Hall: That wraps up another episode of the Uptime Wind Energy Podcast. If today’s discussion sparked any questions or ideas, we’d love to hear from you. Reach out to us on Linked. And don’t forget to subscribe, so you never miss an episode. And if you’ve found value in today’s conversation, please leave us a review. It really helps other wind energy professionals discover the show for Rosie, Yolanda and Matthew, I’m Alan Hall, and we’ll see you here next week on the Uptime Wind Energy [00:37:00] Podcast.

The crew discusses the UK removing tariffs on offshore wind equipment, Vineyard Wind’s final blade shipment from New Bedford, and Ming Yang joining Germany’s offshore wind association. Sign up now for Uptime Tech News, our weekly newsletter on all things wind technology. This episode is sponsored by Weather Guard Lightning Tech. Learn more about Weather Guard’s StrikeTape Wind Turbine LPS retrofit. Follow the show on YouTube, Linkedin and visit Weather Guard on the web. And subscribe to Rosemary’s “Engineering with Rosie” YouTube channel here. Have a question we can answer on the show? Email us! The Uptime Wind Energy Podcast brought to you by Strike Tape, protecting thousands of wind turbines from lightning damage worldwide. Visit strike tape.com. And now your hosts.  Allen Hall: Welcome to the Uptime Wind Energy Podcast. I’m your host, Allen Hall. I’m here with Matthew Stead, Rosemary Barnes and Yolanda Padron. And the UK is really gearing up for offshore wind and they’re making some really smart moves and. One of them is, uh, the change in tariffs. So the British offshore wind manufacturers have been fighting really an uphill battle for a long time and for years. The companies that build turbines and components in the UK have faced import tariffs on the materials needed most, which tends to be steels like steel. Uh, cables, specialized parts from overseas all carried a tariff with it. Well, now the federal government has acted to [00:01:00] remove those tariffs on offshore wind equipment. The move is expected to save UK manufacturers tens of millions of pounds every year. And for an industry trying to cut costs and scale up that kind of relief could make the difference between winning. Losing contracts, and I’m surprised the UK has waited this long and I think other countries have the same problem. Obviously the US is taring the heck out of everything at the minute, but uh, a lot of European countries do put tariffs on the raw materials and the components that are used to make wind turbines. That’s not a smart long term move if you’re trying to deploy. Gigawatts of offshore wind.  Matthew Stead: Well, I, I think, uh, the recent events in the world show that energy security and not importing energy is a wonderful thing. And so this completely aligns with that, um, that objective. So I think that’s why we all agree with you, Alan. Allen Hall: Well do, is there a, a. A threshold here where other countries start to do it [00:02:00] and for whatever reason there’s, there’s tends to be tariffs on energy in all forms of it. Right. And there and on steel in particular, that seems to be a big area of concern. Are we gonna start to see some of those come down just to lower the cost of wind turbines and to deploy the middle of the water? ’cause there is a lot of steel in an offshore wind turbine.  Matthew Stead: It’s been like China. I mean China has, you know, a lot of clean energy, low cost energy and it is to their advantage. So I, I think it’s a entirely logical approach and I would’ve thought it’s, if you’re a good on policy, you would definitely be looking at this. Allen Hall: Is this has been a concern of the UK steel industry, which has been diminishing over the years? Uh, so it’s always been a pain point with the uk. They’ve been trying to stand up their own steel industry and forever they had a big steel industry In the uk you think of all the. The steel that was built from late 18 hundreds all the way up to the 1980s and nineties. Uh, but it does sound like you, you gotta pick and choose your battles here. And maybe the UK has [00:03:00] finally said, okay, the, the steel battle is a separate issue within offshore wind, and maybe we gotta do something different.  Matthew Stead: I mean, I think Australia did the same thing ages ago. I mean, we had a car, car industry and you know, we just didn’t have the scale. So, you know, Australia’s picking its battles and um, yeah, I mean, you can’t be good at everything, so you know why not. Uh, get the, the lower cost energy and um, deal with it that way.  Rosemary Barnes: Australia has actually just announced, you know how Australia’s got the policy to support clean energy technology manufacturing in Australia. And they started with, um, solar panels and then they’ve also got something related to battery cells. Well, they just announced wind turbine tower manufacturing, um, which is very simple. The reason why Australia doesn’t have, um, wind turbine tower manufacturing anymore. Is just because we can’t compete on price with Asia, um, in general and China specifically. It’s interesting now to be like, okay, let’s support Australian [00:04:00]manufacturing of wind turbine towers when like there’s no technological barrier. It’s pure cost, cost issues. I would really love to see the Australian government supporting some of the new manufacturing methods and you know, like we’ve seen that Fortescue has invested in. Um, in Ena Lift, the Spanish, Spanish company, um, ESCU has, has bought their tower manufacturing. Um, it’s, it’s like modular, advanced thing that’s gonna work well for remote areas. Otherwise it’s just like, pay a bunch of money so that we can make towers more expensively, but we can sell them at a competitive rate with the Chinese. And I don’t know, to me that’s not very strategic. I always prefer we support the next, the next thing.  Allen Hall: Whatever happened to spiral welding and making towers on site. I think that died about a year or two ago because they were trying it here in the United States and about building ’em at the wind farm. But it sounded like just setting it up to [00:05:00] build the spiral mechanism, the, the cold, uh, forming plus all the welding on top of it. It got to be so expensive to install on site that it was just easier to, to build a central location, which I think they were going for. I’m not even sure that in today’s world, because of the advanced technology in the existing way of manufacturing is so good and inexpensive that it makes any sense to try anything else. It just seems like it’s, there’s just stamping out parts right now.  Rosemary Barnes: Oh, no. I mean, we definitely need new, new methods because we’re really constrained on how tall towers can get if you just wanna make a steel cylinder and ship it out in, you know, whole pieces, like whole cross sections and. Um, put them together vertically. That’s you. You know, like we’ve, we’ve gotten about as tall as we’re gonna get for that because if you want to go any taller, you’re gonna have to start massively increasing the thickness of the tower to make it stiffen up. And that just means way more steel to keep material costs reasonable. You need to increase the diameter, um, beyond [00:06:00] what you can transport on the road. Um, but I think that it’s like the, the, the problem is definitely real and well established, but it’s like with many other. Problems. You know when you start thinking, okay, we’ve got a solution to this problem at that time, there aren’t other solutions, so you’re sure that you know you’re gonna win. And so spiral welding was one of the early ones. Oh, we can fix this problem, but. While they’re developing that and trying to get the capabilities where it needs to be, the cost down, you’ve got a dozen other competing ways that you could solve that problem. And they include like, um, some manufacturers, I think Vestus is one. They’re cutting longitudinally. And so instead of, um, shipping out towers in a single cross section, it’ll be like four. And then they’re bolted together on site. Um, and then Concrete Towers is another one. The Naber Lift, um, thing that I mentioned.  Matthew Stead: Wooden towers.  Rosemary Barnes: Yeah, wooden Wooden towers is, uh, another one I’ve covered, uh, [00:07:00] on my YouTube channel. Matthew Stead: They really should make them out of carbon fiber, shouldn’t they?  Rosemary Barnes: Well, I have, it’s not, it’s You’re saying that as a, as a crazy thing. It’s not, it’s not such a crazy thing. And I have, I have, I have looked into it. You wouldn’t do it outta carbon fiber. You’d do it outta glass. Um, there’s a lot of. There’s a lot of benefits to it, and I actually do believe that we might eventually see like 3D printed glass, um, towers. Allen Hall: No.  Rosemary Barnes: Now we’re just getting into our standard. I, I believe the future might look different to the, to the present day, and Alan never thinks that anything’s ever gonna change.  Matthew Stead: I would’ve. 3D uh, printed concrete towers would have some logic.  Rosemary Barnes: There’s been pilots of 3D printed concrete, concrete towers. I’m, I’m pretty sure GE had a, um, a project on that and there might have been somebody else that did, took it a bit further. It’s all possible. It’s also like concrete towers are, are good, but it is local. Like it depends on having the right materials around locally. ’cause you don’t want to have to transport Hess of. Concrete and water to site. Um, [00:08:00] so yeah, anyway, the point is that like, just because you’ve identified a real problem and you’ve got a solution to it, if you are gonna take five or 10 years to develop your technology and get it to the right price point, you are not gonna be the only, the only solution anymore. So people often like massively overestimate how valuable their idea is. Um, and by the time that it’s ready, it’s not the best solution anymore. So I think like the lesson from that is to just. You need to just move really, really fast and keep your peripheral vision available to see what other technologies are developing in tandem and know when, when to pull the pin. If you are no longer, you no longer have a path to be the best solution, then. Stop. Even if you’ve got 90% of a solution, don’t bother with the last 10%. If you’re never gonna sell it, you know it’s a waste go. Um, let, let all your smart people work on something else. Allen Hall: Delamination and bottom line, failures and blades are [00:09:00]difficult problems to detect early. These hidden issues can cost you millions in repairs and lost energy production. C-I-C-N-D-T are specialists to detect these critical flaws before they become expensive burdens. Their non-destructive test technology penetrates deep to blade materials to find voids and cracks. Traditional inspections, completely. Miss C-I-C-N-D-T Maps. Every critical defect delivers actionable reports and provides support to get your blades. Back in service, so visit cic ndt.com because catching blade problems early will save you millions. Can we pull the pin? On digital twins. I came across another company that was pushing digital twins in the wind turbine space. And I thought, I thought we got rid of that a year ago. Can we stop doing that?  Rosemary Barnes: I, um, in general, like I think a lot of times you see digital twins and I can’t see the point, but there are some applications where you [00:10:00] definitely can,  Matthew Stead: uh, I can add on the digital twin, so the IEC 61 400 dash 32, the new blade o and m standard has in the, in its current draft, it has a section on digital twins. Um, and um, at the last meeting there was a debate as to whether that should be taken out because actually, um, AI, ml, um, all these, um, approaches will just overrun the concept of the traditional digital twin. So, um, I was voting for it to be removed, um, but. Other people didn’t. And so it’s still in the current draft. Yolanda Padron: I am a little bit tired around digital twins at the idea of, like, I’ve seen the title slapped around a lot of things that just aren’t digital twins. And I think that gets even more confusing to a lot of people who are just new to the space or new to the idea that then they, they, they hear digital twin, they have like an idea about it or like, oh, it’s really great, and then they pursue something that just [00:11:00] really isn’t, it’s just a. A monitoring system that they wanted to name something else.  Allen Hall: Yes, that’s it.  Rosemary Barnes: I’ve seen it used well in manufacturing, which is not usually what people are selling it as, but you know, if you have a new composite part, for example, and like a wind turbine blade is a really good example, you design it. And then you can only test it to a certain extent. Um, and you never know exactly what you’ve made, right? And so it’s really hard to kind of relate, like to validate your design tools when not every blade is the same. You know, it’s aiming to be the same. The design is the same every time, but you’re gonna get different results every time you test it. But with some advanced, uh, manufacturing, like my favorite thing to argue with Alan about 3D printing, um, fiber reinforced composites. You can really precisely know exactly what your part looks like all through the structure. You know where every void is. Um, you know where every fiber is and then so you know that exact part. Then you can test that exact part, and you do that with, you know, a dozen of them and you can really [00:12:00] build up a model of what kinds of defects are really, um, you know, doing what to the performance output. And then that can help you to get your quality, um, acceptance to really, like you, you can do the things that matter instead of guessing, oh, okay, yeah, we know that we want this much. Bond line, you can actually know, okay, well like where does that matter? Where doesn’t it? What’s the actual threshold? However, it’s very expensive to do that, and I don’t know that it would make sense for wind turbine blades economically, maybe. Maybe it will one day. I mean, if we can get the quality data that we need, there are big pro quality problems that need to be solved with blades so. I think it’s something to not totally rule out anyway. Matthew Stead: That’s quality control. That’s not a digital twin.  Rosemary Barnes: No, but it is. You have the di you have the make up a digital twin of the, of the part that you’ve made, and then you test it and then you can, um, digitally test the [00:13:00] part that you, the model that you have. So it is a digital twin. Um, it’s just used in a very different way to what digital twins are usually sold as. It’s not at the right level yet for a hundred meter long. Composite wind turbine blade. Um, and also because you would need to destructively test, you know, a, a whole bunch of blades which no one can afford to, to do that.  Yolanda Padron: What if we were to take all the money from like FSAs and stuff that they have to spend, like the OEMs actually have to spend from all of the manufacturing defects from, oh, I tweaked this on this blade type in this. Factory and set it to print and then I tweaked it over here and then I set it to print for like hundreds and hundreds of blades. Um, you know, all of that money spent accumulates too, if we really wanna look at the business case. But eventually, I think maybe it’d be great if it were to work out. I am also.[00:14:00] Hoping  Rosemary Barnes: I, I think it would be a really interesting project to work, and I bet I could. I, I bet that, you know, a good project manager could get, get a positive business case out of it. At the end. One of the problems is that like service, the service department bucket of money is not at all related to the manufacturing bucket of money. Um, so, or the, yeah, the engineering back of the money that, that, that would be a really big problem and make it harder to find a positive business case. But I still think that it’s, um. Yeah, it, there’s a lot of potential there. It would be really interesting project to work on.  Matthew Stead: In terms of the operational phase, I, I think, um, like I said before, the A IML tools. A way more powerful with anomaly detection rather than building a, a fancy digital model, which is not accurate. Um, actually you’re better off looking at the deviations and then the anomalies from what you expect. And I, and there are quite a few people that are doing that, and I, I personally think that’s a way more effective method during the operations and maintenance phase. Rosemary Barnes: But I think that that [00:15:00] would be related. It would be a way to improve what you’re doing there because you said, yeah, digital twin, that’s not. Accurate. So you would need to be accurate. That would be the project to figure out like how you can get accuracy in the right places that you need it. You wouldn’t be able to afford to have accuracy over the entire blade ’cause it’s just way too much data. And then, um, it would help you to figure out like what anoma, what anomalies do we need to look for that are the, the critical ones. I, I think that they would, they would work in partnership. Um, not as two separate things. Can I just plug, because I’m gonna go to China in April and can I just plug that if anyone has any projects, I’ll be there anyway. And um, yeah, so I am sharing the cost of the trip between a few different collaborations and there will be a chance. To, to get me out there to see some manufacturing, et cetera. Would be really excited to go visit some Chinese [00:16:00] manufacturing, some Chinese development. Got a few, few tentative irons in fires at the moment, but would love to have Chinese companies reach out to me and see if we can arrange a collaboration  Allen Hall: as wind energy professionals. Staying informed is crucial, and let’s face it difficult. That’s why the Uptime podcast recommends PES Wind Magazine. PES Wind offers a diverse range of in-depth articles and expert insights that dive into the most pressing issues facing our energy future. Whether you’re an industry veteran or new to wind, PES Wind has the high quality content you need. Don’t miss out. Visit PS wind.com today. It has been a turbulent chapter in offshore wind in America. No doubt about that vineyard wind. The first large scale offshore wind project in the US has faced a crazy difficult road after months of uncertainty, partial construction, and a federally ordered pause. The [00:17:00] project has reached a telling milestone the first. And final shipment of the last blade has departed the port of New Bedford, Massachusetts. And, uh, the blades were just sitting on port for a little while. Uh, Keyside. So this is the last blades or set of blades that’s going out to a turbine. This should sort of wrap it up. I, although I do think there are a couple of blades that may still need some modification updates, something of the sort. But in terms of getting termites out in the water. This should be it. And remember a few months ago, GE and uh, a number of others, vineyard was saying that they’re trying to be done in March. So they’re going to come really close to doing that. And that I know they’re trying to get power all turned on for the site. Because once that happens, it’s really hard for the, uh, the federal government to put any stops on them. I, I guess the question is now, is there any future for offshore wind for [00:18:00]ge now that this is complete and, and it’s kind of off the books, which is what they’ve been trying to do for the last roughly two years, is get it off the books. Matthew Stead: Um, as a positive, I mean. You know, every industry goes through challenges and improve. So I mean, despite all the turmoil, you know, there has to be some good come from it, even though it is been a painful, horrible process. You know, surely there’s some good come from it in terms of improved quality in the future, improved processes, so,  Allen Hall: well, I, I guess that’s the question is are they taking some of these lessons learned and applying them, or are they taking the lessons learned and saying we’re not gonna do that again in, in terms of going down the pathway for offshore wind. Matthew Stead: Well, I think if, uh, if they don’t apply the lessons, that’s sort of, it shows a massive failure of an organization.  Allen Hall: Yeah. It may, I guess it’s a question if it’s a technical failure or a financial failure. Maybe it’s both at the minute until they get everything up and running. But I think the financial side has been. Driving a number of the, of the decisions because the [00:19:00] technical side hasn’t gone all that well.  Matthew Stead: Uh, I think, uh, I think the financial side is an art, which I don’t understand.  Allen Hall: Yeah. Yeah. There’s a lot of moving pieces in financing offshore wind. Now, Vestas has won a, a couple of big. Uh, orders from RWB offshore and Vestus has obviously been in, in some offshore, not at the scale as originally as some of the other OEMs. It does look like the future is bright for Vestus offshore. Is that just gonna continue on that? Vestus is going to invest heavily in offshore and basically dominate that market. Or compete against a a Chinese manufacturer. It doesn’t seem like Siemens is gonna win a lot of offshore contracts off. At least today it doesn’t. You don’t see a lot of noise about that. You see mostly Vestas winning these gigawatt orders. It almost seems inevitable they’re gonna win most of them.  Matthew Stead: Um, I don’t, being long way, way away from where these projects are being made, uh, installed. Um, I don’t have the same sort of insights. [00:20:00] Um, but, um, I mean, obviously yeah, vest, MHI, the previous, um, you know, joint venture with MHI, which especially heavy industries. Um, obviously they’ve come from a, a long pedigree of, um, working offshore, so yeah, I mean, why not? And, um, it seems to be a more of a gradual ramp up, um, and a more orderly, systematic ramp up for offshore. So, yeah. Why, why wouldn’t that work?  Allen Hall: Well, we should hop on the. China discussion because, uh, China’s when turbine makers obviously been trying to build turbines in, in Europe at scale for quite a while now. Uh, and Ying Yang is talking about focusing their efforts on. Germany and they have joined the German Offshore Wind Association BWO. And this is not just a membership cards, uh, that they have subscribed to. It is really like, in a lot of people’s opinion, a strategic signal that Ming Yang intends to compete in the European off.[00:21:00] Market, maybe starting with Germany. Ming Yang was trying to get into Scotland originally, and they were talking about a billion and a half pounds being poured into Scotland to develop factories for offshore wind. Maybe that has come, uh, time has passed and Ming Yang is moving on to Germany. That’s what it reads like to me. Or, or they’re gonna hedge their bets and, and look at both places to see if they can get a foot. Print established in either country.  Matthew Stead: I mean, reputation matters. So you really need to build up a, a footprint. And why would you apply a scatter gun approach? So, I mean, you know, just targeting, you know, one region or, um, you know, makes complete sense to me. So, you know, get, get, get some turbines in the water, get them up and running, get them, get the reliability and the, the reputation, and then, and then go from there. I mean, made complete business sense.  Allen Hall: Well, does that mean that, uh, a mean yang is going to have to lose a little bit of money early on to get some turbines in the water just to demonstrate that they [00:22:00] can do it at scale in Europe? Matthew Stead: I might defer to Rosie, but I would’ve thought they don’t need to, you know, cut costs. I think they’re already cost effective. So you would’ve thought they would just go in, um, with their, their normal product offering and still be successful. Uh, but maybe I’m, I’m on the wrong mark there.  Rosemary Barnes: My understanding is, and I, I don’t know heaps. But my understanding is with Chinese when turbines, that there’s a separate version for the Chinese market, and then if they wanna sell it internationally, then they need to make a new version of it that will pass the IEC, um, standards and the kinds of, you know, certification testing that everybody in those markets is used to. So you’re not always getting, or I don’t think you, I think you’re usually not getting the exact same product. So just because the product exists in China doesn’t mean that it is. Um, without risk in new markets.  Allen Hall: Well, I’m, I’m just curious if ING Yang will have to do a complete IEC certification process because they haven’t done it yet. Uh, is that what you’re saying?  Rosemary Barnes: They do [00:23:00] a, actually a redesign so that they can pass the, um. Certification and then they, yes, they do the whole certification process. However, Mingan hasn’t sold no turbines outside of China. So they have, or it’s not like this is a brand new thing for them that they’ll have to have to, you know, figure out as they go. Um, they’ve, they’ve, you know, I, I, if they haven’t done it for these specific turbines that they’re planning to manufacture in that factory, they’ve at least done it for others and know the process. Um, yeah, and I think we all know it’s not that hard to pass a certification test, so it’s not like a huge obstacle for them. But it will add, it will add cost to the, um, to the process and to the product. Probab probably, you know, there are some design changes that will be needed that will increase the cost of the product. So I don’t think that we’re gonna see, um, you know, Chinese turbines from any, any manufacturer outside of China that are as cheap as the prices that you see within China. Matthew Stead: To be fair though, um, there is a strong, um, Chinese involvement in the IAC committees. So, um, [00:24:00] definitely the, the standards are being used. So, you know, the standards are being used in China, and so I, I don’t think it’s a huge stretch from, you know, the, the domestic product versus the international product. Allen Hall: That wraps up another episode of the Uptime Wind Energy Podcast. If today’s discussion sparked any questions or ideas, we’d love to hear from you. Reach out to us on LinkedIn. Don’t forget to subscribe. So if you never miss an episode, and if you found value in today’s conversation, please leave us a review. It really helps other wind energy professionals discover this show for Rosa, Yolanda, and Matthew. I’m Alan Hall, and we’ll see you here next time on the Uptime Wind Energy Podcast.

Allen reports live from ACP OM&S in Orlando, where the crew discusses high attendance costs, a pay-to-play model that shuts out newcomers, and how the event compares to WOMA. Plus, Vestas CEO Henrik Anderson says he’ll leave Denmark if proposed wealth taxes go through, sparking a debate on executive pay and Danish culture. Sign up now for Uptime Tech News, our weekly newsletter on all things wind technology. This episode is sponsored by Weather Guard Lightning Tech. Learn more about Weather Guard’s StrikeTape Wind Turbine LPS retrofit. Follow the show on YouTube, Linkedin and visit Weather Guard on the web. And subscribe to Rosemary’s “Engineering with Rosie” YouTube channel here. Have a question we can answer on the show? Email us! [00:00:00] The Uptime Wind Energy Podcast brought to you by Strike Tape, protecting thousands of wind turbines from lightning damage worldwide. Visit strike tape.com And now your hosts. Allen Hall: Welcome to the Uptime Wind Energy Podcast. I’m your host Allen Hall, and I’m here with Yolanda Padron, Rosemary Barnes and Matthew Stead. I am at ACP OM&S in Orlando. Home of Mickey Mouse and we’ve had, uh, this is our second day at OM and S and this is the conference where all the operators and the maintenance and the ISPs and all the new technologies show up to, to discuss their products and try to get some work for the summertime. Uh, so there’s a, a good number of vendors here. Solars here, not as much best as I would as expected, and obviously a lot to do with wind. [00:01:00] Uh, I know we’ve been talking internally on Slack and amongst one another. This is one of the, the most expensive conferences I have ever attended. It’s about $2,200 to attend just to get yourself into the door. Rosemary Barnes: And that’s US dollars too.  Matthew Stead: Real dollars.  Allen Hall: Green backs.  Rosemary Barnes: That’s like three and a half times what our event cost. What warmer cost. If you do the conversion  Allen Hall: yes.  Rosemary Barnes: And you get access to what? An exhibition and all of a whole bunch, a variety of amazing, informative, technical topics included with that ticket price, right?  Allen Hall: No. You get access to the exhibition, they will feed you some, uh, enchiladas and some, uh, free beer, but all the technical talks are extra. You have to pay. Uh, a couple hundred dollars  Rosemary Barnes: enchiladas and beer are a must have that everyone obviously wants, but talking about wind energy, totally optional. Nobody. Now, obviously not everybody is gonna wanna talk about wind energy, [00:02:00] so that’s, that’s an extra ticket that you need for that one. Allen Hall: Well, in order to go to the, I would call them technical talks, you have to pay for those. They have an A space in the middle of the convention where they’re doing what they call powered cast. Which are kind of modeled on podcasts, uh, that are sort of a produced thing where they have a panel up there. It’s similar what to where you’d done in Melbourne with Woma, but not with real technical people. The more polishing people. That’s what I saw. I don’t know a lot of the names and I’m pretty used to, to recognizing names of wind and it looks like to be a lot more policy people not. Blade experts or people like that. Rosemary Barnes: I’m a little bit confused because it’s very different to, you know, I love to complain about the Australian wind energy events, but this sounds very different to the way that it’s run here. Like usually at the exhibitions, the exhibitors pay like a bunch of money to be there, and what they want is people to come see it. So [00:03:00] usually here the exhibition is. Free to attend because you are there to be advertised to, you know, like it’s not some like amazing, valuable thing to you. It’s super valuable to the exhibitors. That’s why they have to pay, you know, $10,000 plus to, to be there. Right, but you are saying that they’re, they’re charging the, the attendees are, they’re giving the exhibition space away for free then? Allen Hall: No, the exhibition space costs a tremendous amount of money for a little tiny space. I’m actually in our slot, we share. A slot because the prices are so high, we’re sharing it with AC 8 83 who we love and with C and C onsite, who also we love. So it’s a good combination ’cause we like one another. We’re fun to hang out with, but it’s probably a nine by nine space. Uh, and then you have to pay for carpet and all the furniture that happens inside of that space, you can easily spend. $10,000 on a salon.  Matthew Stead: Question for you, Allen. So, um, how [00:04:00] does, how does the industry foster, you know, new, new technology, new companies, you know, growth of the industry, new ideas, so, you know, how does this event, um, foster those sorts of things? Allen Hall: It doesn’t because it’s really, it’s pay to play as Rosemary has pointed out a number of times and is frustrated by. In order to get heard, you have to pay to one, have a booth, or if you want to get up on stage, it costs money. It’s, it’s not a small amount, by the way. So, uh, if you’re a new company, you got a great idea. You even have traction. Say you’re TRL seven plus and you want to connect with operators, it’s hard to do that here. Uh, the operators tend to be a little gun shy and, and they’re. Off on the side. I, I know some of them obviously, ’cause I, I know who they are, but it isn’t like, uh, the operators are walking around necessarily talking to all the exhibitors. That’s not how this [00:05:00] works. What generally is happening is the operators are talking, uh, to people that are selling products in these conference rooms on the side. So those things are completely off the show floor. It’s not the best situation. Like, I gotta admit, I’ve been to a lot of other conferences like in aerospace. Those tend to be a little more free flowing.  Rosemary Barnes: It’s interesting ’cause it’s like, obviously you go to the events because everybody goes to the event and I’m sure you’ve had some great conversations. Um, however, you don’t need to go inside. Like when you go to one of these huge events, you’re trapped inside a windowless room for all day, every day for several days in a row. Like, why does it need, why does it need to be there if they’re discourage, actively discouraging people from going to any presentations? Why couldn’t you just grab a bunch of friends, you know, put on an open invite, Hey, we’re all gonna the beach this week. Let’s go talk wind energy at the beach. Like, I, I don’t understand why we need to subject ourselves to this sort of, this sort of event. Like I [00:06:00] just, it it’s gotten out outta control, don’t you think?  Allen Hall: It has. I would never talk wind energy while I’m at the beach. I go, that’s probably one place where I’m not talking wind energy, but there are other nice places you could be. To talk about what’s happening in the industry and, and that’s one of the frustrating pieces about this is, although I love a lot of the people that are here, it’s not a great place to share new ideas or to learn something new. It’s, it’s mostly a, a meet and greet and catch up a reunion in a sense. Of, Hey, we’re the survivors. That’s it. Part of it is that feel right.  Rosemary Barnes: It’s pretty hard though if you are not like, you know, everybody you need to talk to. And I started doing the same thing, like at the um, one, one of the recent events or one of the events last year in, in Australia. I was so fed up with it the year before. I’m like, I’m not giving them any money this year. I was at least allowed to go to the exhibition for free at that event. So, you know, at least that’s something, but I mean, I barely even did that. Anyway. What I did was I set up at a cafe near to the event and just, I just [00:07:00]scheduled meetings like back to back for two days. Um, everyone just came to the cafe. But that’s ’cause I know everybody, right? Like, it’s like someone that’s new to the industry can get nothing out of these events. Now it seems like it’s just, it’s so, it’s so sad. Like where, how, how are you going? Like, you know, people brand new to the industry. You used to be able to go to an event and just be like, okay, I’m gonna just have information overload for two or three days, meet a bunch of great people and I’ll come away feeling like I’m part of this industry. I just can’t imagine. That happening at the event that you are describing, that someone would, would show up and, you know, come away knowing a lot more about the industry and with, with a bunch of useful connections. Am I right?  Allen Hall: Uh, I think you’re right. There’s were a couple of people that I ran into that were new to the industry, trying to start a service provider or repair business, generally speaking that, or a drone business that we’re trying to get into the, the industry and we’re reaching out and talking to people and. The thing about [00:08:00] wind is when you actually get ahold of somebody, they will help you. It’s, it’s very, uh, open. What do you do? What are you trying to do? Wherever you talk, who you talk to, here’s some names that will happen, but it is daunting because there’s a lot of people here. You don’t know anybody, and there’s no way to really introduce them. I think that one of the things that, uh, American C Clean powered. Did, uh, that I noticed was they had like a first timers reunion space, so, or a meeting space so that it had some beach balls and a little Tahiti hut or whatever those tiki hut or whatever that was where you could kind of hang out because you knew. But I’m not sure that’s the best way to do that. I think, you know, American clean power could do a much better job of knowing who’s first time and connecting them. If the industry’s gonna grow, you need to be taking in new people and new ideas. To it. The only way you’re gonna be able to do that is if you actively make it happen. Matthew Stead: Did you learn anything new [00:09:00] so far?  Allen Hall: Not new. Uh, I, because we’re doing the podcast and we’re recorded several episodes in the last two days, I was able to ask specific questions like, what are you working on? What’s new? What’s coming out? And that’s the way to get to those answers. But if you’re walking the exhibit four, you would not see a lot of new technology and. Three years ago, I think four years ago, especially like during COVID, there was some pretty cool technology out on the show floor, uh, but not so much Today, the industry’s matured and, and it’s a tough industry to, to survive in. So what you generally see is companies that have been around 3, 4, 5 years that have made it, that are profitable, that are making good and income, and are providing a service and have sustained businesses, that’s what’s here today. Yolanda Padron: I think that a CP, the intent behind events like the one you’re, and Allen and the one we’ve, the ones we’ve all been to are, the intent is great, but the [00:10:00] execution isn’t super great. Not just from the the point of view of people coming in from new to the industry and wanting to start an ISP or something, but just from the owner operator. Point of view, you know, you’re, if you have to pay to go to specific talks or to go to technical talks that you don’t really know how much they’ll benefit you until basically the end of it. Once you see the information that’s gone into it and the practicality of everything that they, they’re talking about, and then when you’re walking in the showroom like four, like it’s a little bit daunting sometimes. There’s hundreds of companies. Sitting around in kind of like a maze, right? And it’s not always like, oh, you need lightning protection. Like that’s that area. Or you need better locks for your o and m buildings or for your towers or something. It’s that section like you’re just walking around everywhere. And then just. It kind of turns [00:11:00] into, like sometimes it can turn into just a game of like, if you’re going with a lot of colleagues, like a kind of a drinking day or a day to just see who can collect more freebies. Like I remember one year we had a group chat of like, oh, like every time you saw something cool that was like a, a merchandise thing, like you would put it in the group chat, like E 46 has this. And then we would all go and get it and it was. I don’t think that’s the intent behind what, what we wanted to do. It really wasn’t what we saw at oma if we’re being completely honest.  Matthew Stead: What I’m hearing is that there’s a really strong need in the US for another event. Is that, is that what I’m hearing?  Allen Hall: I think there needs to be a real technical event run by people who are technical experts. I think that’s it because there are a lot of new solutions out there, but you’re not gonna find them at OMX. That’s just not the place. Now, I’m sure a CP would dispute that and that’s fine. They [00:12:00] have their own opinion. But I think having attended this for several years and a CP and a number of other, uh, conferences in wins, there’s a small subset that are sharing solutions. It’s small and maybe there is need for one in America. It’s hard saying, Matthew, I. I think that maybe there’s is a time and place for it. I’m not sure America’s ready for it in, in a broader scope, but maybe something small. Maybe that’s the way to start off, is to do something small. Bring in the people we know and love from around the world have, go back to Rosemary’s point. Maybe we do something by the, by the pool or by the ocean. Maybe we do talk wind energy for, for an afternoon.  Rosemary Barnes: I understand why you can’t, um, have an event at. A resort. And it was suggested actually to me a couple of times, like people when we were organizing Wilma, why is this in Melbourne? Why isn’t this in the Maldives? Or you know, some, something like that. And the [00:13:00] one of the reasons like for us, ’cause in our Melbourne event it’s a, you know, it’s a very low cost event. We don’t make any money from it. It’s small. At least half of wind energy People in Australia are living in Melbourne, so it’s very, you know, easy for them to go to that it doesn’t, it doesn’t cost much or take much time. So that was that reason. But I think that, you know, more broadly, like say we did a global event and we put it in the, in the malice or in Fiji or Hawaii or whatever, like, people aren’t gonna get that approved from their managers, right? So even though you know, you’ve spent, I don’t know how much the technical sessions were, but by the time that you’ve gotten to a CP, if you had to. Even, you know, fly there in Australian hotel for a few nights, like it’s gonna be, you know, four grand or something. You can get to a nice location, probably an all-inclusive resort for a week, somewhere nice for similar money. Like you would spend more time having quality conversations and it would be, you know, nice and enjoyable, but [00:14:00] your manager is never gonna approve that. So I think that’s the challenge. To find somewhere that’s like nice and conducive to being relaxed and open, but that doesn’t sound like. So obviously a junket that no one will get approval to go to it. That’s the, that’s the challenge.  Matthew Stead: Um, just this week we got the feedback from the WMA conference. So we got, um, some of the results from the survey and I think, uh, probably the key thing to me was that we achieved 4.6 out of five, um, star rating. Um, everyone gave it a four or a five. And we know people that give things four out of five actually mean five. So I think we did really well. So, uh, and the feedback was also, um, you know, the technical content, but people want more, more and more, uh, technical content and, and the interaction with people. Rosemary Barnes: That’s a really, a really key thing to get feedback on if there are. Experts or categories of information that you would like to see covered that haven’t been, because I think, like we talk a lot about how, what the [00:15:00]problems are with a pay to play kind of model where speakers pay and get up and give a sales pitch and you know, there’s a lot of problems with that. But then when it’s the other way around and you know, we’re choosing speakers that we know are good, then you fall into the risk of having it become cliquey where it’s just, you know, like all our friends over and over again. It’s uh, like hard for us to both vet the quality and bring in people that we don’t know. So that’s where the outside feedback is gonna make that a lot better. Um, and it takes a long time, you know, you do, ’cause you, you do need to get to know a speaker before you can decide whether they’re gonna get up in the acne. You don’t sell at you for half an hour when they were supposed to, you know, do something informative. So, would love to hear that feedback.  Matthew Stead: I think the proof is in the pudding because, uh, at for woma, no one said that they were unlikely to attend.  Allen Hall: Oh, I, I would hate to see what the numbers are gonna be for OMS this year. Uh, ’cause you know, you know why I say that? Because a lot of people that have exhibited in the past do not have a booth this year, and they’re walking [00:16:00] around the show. And to me that’s an alarm signal. They should have a booth. They have good things to talk about. They’re a successful company. They’re doing great things to win, but they feel like this is just too much. It’s too much. Eventually you reach too much. I think we’re there.  Rosemary Barnes: I think it’s been a really good, like, uh, a big event with an exhibition can be a real money maker. And for, you know, like, uh, assuming that SAP uses this. The money that they make from this event to deliver services for the American Wind Industry. Uh, I mean, you, you know, you can probably argue about how well or not they do that. I don’t have an opinion ’cause I’m not in America. But, you know, like, I, I’m not saying that that’s not the, um, a, a noble goal and a good thing to, for the business to be doing. However, I think that it, that you can overshoot and, you know, so you can make a, a bunch of money for a few years. You know, you’ve got a good reputation for your event. You’ve got everybody comes to it. You can charge squillions to exhibitors. You can charge squillions more to speakers. You can even start charging people to watch the speakers who have [00:17:00] paid to be there. Probably, I don’t, I don’t actually know in this case, my assumption. Um, but at some point. Like you’ve cottoned on that, hey, it’s not actually worth paying extra for the, um, you know, to go watch the speakers. And the last one of these, you know, similar Australian events I was at, I was like, Hey, it’s not actually worth me paying to go into there because I can get all the benefits by just being near to it, like then. Once you don’t have heaps and heaps of people moving through, then exhibitors don’t wanna pay $10,000 to be there. Um, and so like, it’s just, it’s not sustainable to run the event like that. And that’s what I don’t think that, um, a lot of these event organization companies, especially the ones that aren’t run by an industry body, um, the ones that are just run by a company who exist to make money off events. You know, like they’re not, I don’t think that they’re planning these events to be sustainable in the long term and to improve the industry.  Matthew Stead: Can I ask, um, a question for Yolanda and Allen. Um, so assuming this money for a CP [00:18:00] ends up as lobbying money, do you think lobbying at the moment actually helps? Allen Hall: Here’s the feeling about it on the floor, and I haven’t talked to everybody here clearly. But the significant percentage I had talked to thinks that the policy efforts have not borne fruit, and that in some aspects, uh, they have increased the tension. Whether they’ve intentionally have done that or not, I don’t know. But I think the feeling on the floor here, the last two days has been the industry is in a quote unquote downturn or a pause, and they’re waiting till 2028 to see what happens. That’s not the answer I wanted to hear. And also at the state level, I think, uh, the amount of policy changes that are happening are not pro wind, pro solar or pro best, except maybe in a couple of states. So, uh, you feel like although [00:19:00] American clean power is on a national level, you will also like them to be at a state level, helping move some things forward and stop some of the prohibitions that are happening, or to get some of the permits issued. That’s one of the things that popped up today, talking to someone in the know as that permits are hard to get hold of in some states. Well, American Clean Power is supposed to be helping with that. I’m not sure that they are, at least if they are, you can’t see anything visible happening. From the outside, which is a shame. That’s really a shame. So, you know where we go from here? I, I, I’m kind of in Rosemary’s camp. I had no idea. Uh, next year gonna be really interesting. I, I don’t know what the numbers of attendees are. Uh, I’m guessing a couple thousand people are here. I’m guessing, let’s just say it’s 2000 people. I may be off plus or minus. Well, not on the negative side. It’s more than a thousand people here, but it’s not 10,000. That’s for sure.  Yolanda Padron: I think that, uh, someone at Woma summed it up really [00:20:00] well when they said that, um, we need to shift the conversation from this is the right thing to do to this, is this, we should make this to be cost effective and it should be the obvious decision to make. Right? Just from a financial standpoint. Uh, and I think, I think that’s right from my, uh. Personal interactions with a lot of people in dc I think that lobbying really helps regardless of the political party that one is affiliated to. Um, just, just the way that sometimes our, our system seems to. I not, not to say that anything’s negative, I think it’s, I mean, it’s just the, the way things pan out, uh, oftentimes in the [00:21:00] us. Um, yeah, I mean, I’ve, I’ve heard from. From both sides.  Allen Hall: Well, to Yolanda’s point, I would say we don’t belong to American clean power because one, it’s expensive and as a small business, does it make sense as the changing policy that helps me? The answer to that historically has been no. It doesn’t mean it’s not gonna happen in the future. I think a lot of. Companies of our size are saying the same thing. There are some that have been here a lot longer that have knew a CP before it was a CP when it was a, a slightly different organization and they’ve continued on on, on some level just I think because they’re familiar with it. But I think the newcomers are having a heart attack. And I would consider me to be a newcomer that we’ve been in wind since about 2012 or 2013, so we’ve been in it quite a while at this point. But there’s some old guard here. The new. The new players though, I think are struggling. I think there’s very few new companies that are flashy. Like we saw in San Antonio a [00:22:00] couple of years ago at American Clean Power. We’re like, wow, there are some boosts here. And man, there’s some firepower happening and some really good marketing and some new products and new ideas. That’s not. That’s not here. Not, not this year. Delamination and bottom line, failures and blades are difficult problems to detect early. These hidden issues can cost you millions in repairs and lost energy production. C-I-C-N-D-T are specialists to detect these critical flaws before they become a. Expensive burdens. Their non-destructive test technology penetrates deep to blade materials to find voids and cracks. Traditional inspections completely. Miss C-I-C-N-D-T Maps. Every critical defect delivers actionable reports and provides support to get your blades back in service. So visit cic ndt.com because catching blade problems early will save you millions.[00:23:00] Denmark has long been the home of the wind industry, but now our proposed new wealth taxes threatening to push one of its most prominent executives out the door. And Henrik Anderson, chief executive officer of Vestas says he will leave Denmark rather than pay the new tax, even if it costs him tens of millions of Broner and exit fees. Uh, Anderson earned 32 million Kroger last year, and estimates he pays an effective tax rate of 60% already. He argues Denmark already leads Europe in income taxation and adding a wealth tax crosses the line and he, if he goes, he warns senior leadership could follow. Now, that’s a pretty bold statement for someone who was seen as one of the leadership. Uh, a group of Denmark on the industrial side. Of course,  Rosemary Barnes: I’d argue it’s also culturally, [00:24:00] culturally not a super Danish thing to, to say at least publicly. Um, yeah, I dunno how many Danish listeners we’ve got, but one thing that I learned when I lived there, they’ve got this thing called yte Long. I think it comes from an, an old book, like fictional book, but it does pretty. Well, Danish people say it pretty accurately describes Danish culture. I’ve just, uh, looked it up. But, um, so it’s Y Y’s law and that has 10, there’s 10 rules in Y’s law and they are, one, you’re not to think that you are anything special. Two, you’re not to think you are as good as we are. Three, you’re not to think you are smarter than we are, or you’re not to imagine yourself better than we are. You know, it can, it continues down like that. But I just wonder like, is the Danish wind industry, have they flown too close to the sun? Have they become too thought themselves too special? Is this an example of where Denmark Danish people would say, you know [00:25:00] what? Who do you think you are when dentistry, you think that you’re better than us? You think you’re smarter than us? Do you think that you don’t deserve to contribute to society? Because that is one of the biggest cultural differences that I found in in Denmark, was that people genuinely think that they have the um, responsibility when they’re doing well to make sure that everybody else in society is doing well. This is an interesting cultural moment for Denmark, is all I would try to say that this to me, I’m very interested to see how Danish people respond to this idea that. We’re gonna, we’re gonna leave now because we don’t wanna share our, uh, wealth with the Danish, with Danish society as a whole  Allen Hall: 32 million kroners, that’s actually extremely low and in the United States. Uh, there are thousands of companies, much smaller than Vestas, where the CEO is making a lot more than that, and to give half of that, more than [00:26:00] half of that away, so the CEO is taking home a million and US dollars, like 1,000,002, that’s not a tremendous amount of money. I for the responsibility which are on that person’s shoulders. I could see being a little upset about that. And obviously he travels in circles in which he meets a lot of people that are making a lot more money come to America, stop at a, I don’t know, there’s a lot of places, machine shops that’ll make more money than that. Uh, so I think there’s a right to be upset about it. You know, the, everything that’s happening in Denmark at the moment, I’m trying to. I feel like Denmark is getting it together. And then these things happen and I start to worry again. Uh, there’s, there’s so many things that have happened in the United States. They’re pushing against Denmark, and I feel, I’m always apologizing to my people I know in Denmark and like, this is another one. Like, oh, geez, yeah, we, you know, vest can move to America. Oh, no, no, no, no. I want buses to be where it is. Stay [00:27:00] there. But I think there’s opportunities for investors to move and you kind of get the feeling that they’re leaving Denmark slowly. Have you noticed that recently?  Rosemary Barnes: Maybe. I mean, uh, all of those Danish wind energy companies used to manufacture in Denmark and barely, there’s barely any Danish manufacturing now. So I mean, to a certain extent this is, you know, started a long time ago, but I also think that the, what you described at the tax of the CEO income and the income not being high, it’s not just, uh. Top 1% kind of issue. That’s something that I, I definitely felt it when I worked there, but I think that like, would your average Danish person wish that CEOs were paid more like Americans and that Danish society became more like American with a huge wealth inequality? I, I’m gonna go out in a limb and say. 90% plus of Danish people would absolutely abhor the idea of that happening there. And they will be very firmly on side of you should be, um, CEOs should not be [00:28:00] making that much money and people that are making a lot of money should be paying a lot of tax to support the rest of society at just, I, I, I’m. Pretty sure that he is like a really core cultural value.  Matthew Stead: I think he is good at, I mean, things don’t change unless things change. And, um, uh, I think it’s good for him to be pushing and, you know, making this a, a public discussion and a public topic. I mean, if he hadn’t have come out talking about this problem, we wouldn’t have been talking about it. So, uh, I think yeah. Good on him for raising it and for being brave. I mean, you, like you say, Rosie, um, is not traditional cultural. Values in, in, in Denmark, but, you know, good on him for, for pushing the, pushing the, the, the barrow.  Allen Hall: It’s, it’s hard, right? I think Vestas works in a global community and they see all different kinds of cultures and all kinds of economic systems, and they operate in all of ’em. And, uh, the CEO of Vestus were in the United States and they have a large manufacturing presence in the United States. Let’s face it. [00:29:00] Uh, easily making 10 million in the United States, maybe more easy. And I don’t think they’re paying him nearly enough for the work that he has done and things that he has accomplished. You have to admit, the CEO of Vestus has really put a lot of time and effort into that company and has improved it in ways that are somehow, uh, never discussed, but are, in my opinion, immeasurable. So for the long-term health of that company, they are seen as the preeminent wind turbine manufactured today. That’s hard to do. That wraps up another episode of the Uptime Wind Energy Podcast. If today’s discussion sparked any questions or ideas, we’d love to hear from you. Reach out to us on LinkedIn and don’t forget to subscribe to you. Never miss an episode. And if you found value in today’s this conversation for. Please leave us a review. It really helps other wind energy professionals discover the show for Rosie, Yolanda and Matthew. I’m Allen Hall, and we’ll see you here next week on the Uptime Wind Energy [00:30:00] Podcast.

De beste chips ter wereld maken? Het is niet genoeg voor Nvidia. Ze willen een vinger in de pap hebben bij de AI die op hun apparatuur draait. Ze werken ze aan een platform waar andere bedrijven 'AI Agents' op kunnen maken. Maar waarom? Dat zoeken we in deze aflevering uit. Dan hebben we het ook over één van die 'agents', namelijk die van Tencent. Ze lanceren WorkBuddy, een kunstmatige intelligentie-tool die op de achtergrond je werk voor je gaat doen. En beleggers kunnen hun geluk niet op. Verder hoor je over de cijfers van Volkswagen. Het concern heeft geen best jaar achter de rug, en gaat ook geen best jaar tegemoet. Dat durven ze alvast te zeggen. En bezuinigen is hun grootste bezigheid. En natuurlijk praten we je bij over de situatie in het Midden-Oosten. President Trump belooft dat de oorlog met Iran 'binnenkort' afgelopen is. Maar ondertussen nemen de G7-landen toch maatregelen om verdere stijging van de olieprijs tegen te gaan. Te gast: Han Dieperink, CIO bij Auréus BNR Beurs is een journalistiek onafhankelijke productie, mede mogelijk gemaakt door Saxo. Over de makers: Jelle Maasbach is presentator van BNR Beurs en freelance financieel journalist. Zijn favoriete aandeel om over te praten is Disney, maar daar lijkt hij de enige in te zijn. Sinds de eerste uitzending van BNR Beurs is 'ie er bij. Maxim van Mil is presentator van BNR Beurs en journalist bij BNR, waar hij zich focust op de financiële markten en ontwikkelingen in de tech-wereld. Je krijgt hem het meest enthousiast als hij kan praten over ASML, of oer-Hollandse bedrijven zoals Ahold of ABN Amro. Jorik Simonides is presentator van BNR Beurs, economieredacteur en verslaggever bij BNR. Hij wordt er vooral blij van als het een keer níet over AI gaat. Milou Brand is presentator van BNR Beurs, freelance podcastmaker en columnist bij het Financieele Dagblad. Jochem Visser is presentator van BNR Beurs, maakt Beursnerd XL en is redacteur bij BNR Zakendoen en de podcast Onder Curatoren. Vraag hem naar obscure zaken op financiële markten en hij vertelt je waarom het eigenlijk nóg leuker is dan je al dacht. Over de podcast: Met BNR Beurs ga je altijd voorbereid de nieuwe beursdag in. We praten je in een kleine 25 minuten bij over alle laatste ontwikkelingen op de handelsvloer. We blijven niet alleen bij de AEX of Wall Street, maar vertellen je ook waar nog meer kansen liggen. En we houden het niet bij de cijfers, maar zoeken ook iedere dag voor je naar duiding van scherpe gasten en experts. Of je nu een ervaren belegger bent of net begint met je eerste stappen op de beurs, de podcast biedt waardevolle inzichten voor je beleggingsstrategie. Door de focus op zowel de korte termijn als de lange termijn, helpt BNR Beurs luisteraars om de ruis van de markt te scheiden van de essentie. Van Musk tot Microsoft en van Ahold tot ASML. Wij vertellen je wat beleggers bezighoudt, wie de markten in beweging zet en wat dat betekent voor jouw beleggingsportefeuille.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Peter Giddings of the Offshore Wind Growth Partnership joins to discuss the UK’s industrial growth plan for offshore wind, the five priority supply chain areas being targeted, and how OWGP helps businesses scale from small suppliers into globally competitive manufacturers. Sign up now for Uptime Tech News, our weekly newsletter on all things wind technology. This episode is sponsored by Weather Guard Lightning Tech. Learn more about Weather Guard’s StrikeTape Wind Turbine LPS retrofit. Follow the show on YouTube, Linkedin and visit Weather Guard on the web. And subscribe to Rosemary’s “Engineering with Rosie” YouTube channel here. Have a question we can answer on the show? Email us! Welcome to Uptime Spotlight, shining Light on Wind. Energy’s brightest innovators. This is the Progress Powering Tomorrow. Allen Hall: Peter, welcome to the program.  Peter Giddings: Thanks for having me out.  Allen Hall: The UK right now is just a global leader in offshore wind, which I think a, a lot of us in the United States don’t even realize that, but the UK is a. Giant leader in offshore wind. Uh, but we keep hearing about the supply chain constraints that are threatening some of the timelines here. What are some of the fundamental problems that the UK offshore wind supply chain has today?  Peter Giddings: We are in a great situation for supply chain, but the 2000 companies, some of them with 25 years experience. At the scale where we can deliver the four gigawatts a year for the next five years that we need to hit our 2030 deployment targets and to keep that deployment rolling. So we are [00:01:00] brilliant at the UK of planning, developing and deploying wind farms. We have a really strong maintenance base. We do some great supply chain work, and IWGP Offshore Wind Growth Partnership has helped those businesses grow, but we don’t have as much capacity as we would like. For the major items. So we have a great set of facilities making blades. We have good facilities, uh, great facilities in JDR making cables, but we don’t capture as much of the manufacturing value of our deployment as we would like. That means we create fewer jobs, we create less economic benefit, and those developers are exposed to more supply chain risk. Specifically, we want to build globally competitive supply chain capacity. We, we we’re, we’re not a charity. We are building businesses that can win contracts. They are attractive to the procurement teams and they’re sustainable, they grow, right? Competitive capacity is what we’re after. Um, and that’s, that’s really what [00:02:00] we’re after. Allen Hall: And if the UK doesn’t really address these problems now, what does that look like for the supply chain? Because you’re talking about moving from roughly 16. Gigawatts in the water to approximately 50 gigawatts, 45, 50 gigawatts by 2030 and beyond. So that’s, you know, it’s roughly a tripling of the amount of capacity in the water supply chain becomes then really critical to that and in order to feed that. But what happens here, if the supply chain has not grown locally,  Peter Giddings: it’s a missed opportunity. I mean, the businesses that are here today would be an incremental growth. And that’s not bad. That’s an okay outcome. But if your deployment is a huge opportunity and you get an okay outcome, that’s not acceptable. That’s not a way to run an industry, right? We have this massive opportunity in front of us. There’s a huge amount that we could do that the UK is great at that the opportunity is to stretch [00:03:00] and help communities all around the coast have. Hundreds, thousands of jobs that are there. They’re stable, they’re good quality, and they are prosperous. It’s a real community initiative. Those towns, which are probably seeing a decline in oil and gas revenue or are strapped to tourism or kind of don’t have an industry, those towns, those people as humans are gonna have a much better future. There’s a, actually a really nice exemplar, um, it’s not. The biggest component, but Cable protection Systems is something that the UK is already globally renowned for. If you open up a tender pack, if you’re allowed to in other markets kind of anywhere, and you look to the CPS package, you would more than likely see a couple of, if not all four of CRP techmark, sub C and Balmoral, right? They, they serve the UK market real well, but they are globally renowned. [00:04:00]That’s, that’s one example. We are looking to do that for the priority sections of the industrial growth plan. You know, we’re going to pick and are picking the areas of the supply chain where we think the UK can be genuinely competitive and we have something to offer. A developer is not gonna choose a substandard product that’s a bit more expensive, but we can build up supply chains that offer fantastic products. Cable protection systems, and we can capture big market share there. Develop a product that can be exported, or if it’s a bit too far to ship, develop a business which can open up a new base. You know, so we, we get that, um, combination of local demand being served. And when I say local, I mean like the North Sea in Baltic and that global opportunity. So it’s, but it’s not gonna be everything. You know, people might. I might get a little bit heat for this, but [00:05:00] if you spread the jam too thin, it doesn’t taste very good. You haven’t committed to win a few things rather than come second and third everywhere. We have to choose what we win at.  Allen Hall: Let’s get into the industrial growth plan, ’cause I wanna understand that a little bit better and how OWGP. Fits in that as the delivery body. Right? So you have this industrial growth plan, OWGP is, is sort of administering it and, and taking action on it. How does this system work and, and why is it different than other attempts at supply chain development?  Peter Giddings: Uh, a couple of years ago, 2023, um, most of the major institutional stakeholders came together and said, oh, that we see this big opportunity coming. We want to make sure that the UK benefits from having all that deployment. So if you’ve got a bunch of demand and you [00:06:00] don’t have much supply, you don’t have as much supply as you want, that’s an obvious gap to fill. And the Crown of State, the Crown of State Scotland, the departments from government, the Offshore Wind Industry Council, a consortium of developers in the uk, uh, came together. Um. And funded a piece of work that allowed, um, a team to bring in lots of industry input. Look at what the big opportunities were in the market. So where is there substantial value? Where is there substantial demand? And match that up to where does the UK have capability and where could we grow a competitive advantage? So. What prizes are worth winning? What prizes can we win? And we’ve matched those up and there’s kind of five priority areas that we’ve selected. Um, it’s kind of the first things we’re gonna go after. Um, [00:07:00] they’re, they’re quite broad, those five. It’s advanced turbine technologies, deep water foundations, cable and electrical systems, uh, smart environmental services, and, uh, smart operations and maintenance. If you kind of open those boxes up, there are some very specific supply chains that are prioritized. So I’ll take the one that, uh, is the first one that we’re looking at. Advanced turbine technology. Uh, we talked just before we started recording, um, that the UK has real strength in blades. Blades is a big opportunity. We have a really well established composite industry. We have a great facility up in Hull. We have an r and d base and an onshore, um, factory on the isle of White with Vestas. And I think the thing we don’t really say is we have chief engineer for blades of Vestas in the UK structures lead. The r and d team is 140 strong down on the island [00:08:00] and we have a really productive facility in Hull. Um. That is putting product out, has been making, um, recyclable blades, is making the one 15. We have depth, so it’s a good opportunity. We have strength, we have a massive innovation ecosystem, so that’s a really obvious win. And we’ve been through the rest of the supply chain taking cables, good capacity, excellent experience from oil and gas, and so that’s a priority area. Okay. Going through those supply chains, finding big opportunities that the UK has, the ability to win contracts in, and then mapping out what do you need to do to make that capacity happen? How much capacity, at what cost, with what performance? And that’s, that’s kind of the OWGP role is owning that plan, bringing input from industry, [00:09:00] bringing input from experts. Turning the ambition of we want to have the ability to supply 50% of UK demand and export into a tangible plan of, cool, these businesses need this investment by this time to stand up a facility so they’re ready. It’s not just a blade factory. Right. That’s, um, that’s important. It’s the 20 businesses that sell product, that sell services into that. We talk about pyramids, right? You’ve got one facility at the top and a big wide base with lots of people who are employed in that big wide base. And I think, you know, it’s natural. Everybody looks to the top of the mountain. We’re looking to build the whole thing, and that’s a really powerful reason for industries to stay for the long term. So I think tracking back to your [00:10:00] question. What’s our role? We own that plan. We bring together the expertise and convert it into a set of measurable steps really. And that kind of second part is coordinate. Everybody needs to be playing the same game, aiming at the same targets. And that’s a really important part. Allen Hall: Well, I think for a lot of people outside the UK, it’s hard to envision the amount of industry that exists. In the UK you’re about 70 million people, so you’re roughly maybe a quarter of the population size of the United States roughly. But you’re, you, you have internal industries there and other areas that have that supply chain growth. So you’ve watched it in aerospace, which is one I’m familiar with, but in other industries, you, automobiles and a number of other areas, uh, you have that supply chain. So you know how to, the UK knows how to do that, but, but that hasn’t really necessarily happened in offshore wind, which I think is where the [00:11:00] opportunity is because I think watching. Being around this industry for as long as I have. One of the key elements is that, uh, the, the smaller businesses are sort of tier twos or tier threes that make the tier ones possible are kind of forgotten about. But the UK historically has looked at tier two and tier three as being the fundamentals to a successful product delivery and, and a, a global marketplace. Is, is that where the initial focus is? Because just listening to. And going to your website, uh, which I encourage everybody to do, you see where there’s smart decisions being made to create that base and what does that look like? And when you’re trying to attack that base on offshore wind, obviously cables and turbine technology, anything to do basically with being in the water, which the UK is great at. Do you see that being a relatively quick exercise because the UK has done it before in other industries? Or [00:12:00] is this problem just a little bit different because of the scale of it?  Peter Giddings: It’s really similar to, uh, the way supply chain’s been supported in aerospace, for example. Um, the Airbus has a deep supply chain in the UK and has a very strong voice into government. Their supply chain is supported. They’ve built that base. Um, and so from the outcome, that’s gonna be pretty similar? I think so. We, we have a template. I’ve worked in aerospace, many colleagues, um, that we’re, we’re calling on have, um, I guess the difference is, uh, maturity of industry. So the developers are very mature businesses. They’re global. They have been big for time. They know how to do supply chain development from oil and gas, where you build enormous unicorns. Exactly. Once, [00:13:00] then move on. You know, an oil and gas project is, is a one time deal. It’s tremendous, but you don’t have to make a hundred of them and it’s slightly different. So you end up with a, a single point, and if you are. Experience and your, um, relationship with government sits with developers that can create some really, um, it, it takes time to build up your supply chain so that they have the same experience of running, um, large development programs. They have the stability as businesses to kind of build through. It’s really important to remember that turbine OEMs and the tier ones haven’t had 30 years of stable business modeling wind. Because 30 years ago, wind wasn’t really a big industry, right? They have had plenty of success scaling their business, and we’re just entering the phase now where you can, um, pretty credibly say that wind is [00:14:00] a global business with a long-term future. And it needs to find the right way for those OEMs, those big tier one manufacturing businesses to support their business in the long term. That is, I would say quite new. Um, hopefully I don’t get pilled for saying that, but Airbus, spin Airbus for 2, 3, 4 generations. Right. So they know their game. Same with roles, same with, you know, Nissan and Toyota. It’s, it’s gonna take a little minute for the manufacturing part of the wind industry to settle and learn what works. We think OWGP and our partners, GB Energy, crown State, we think. We have a good starter for 10. You know, it’s modeled off what we’ve done in other industries. It provides stability, provides capital and a plan. I think that’s a really good mix. Um, [00:15:00] and I think it’ll just take a bit of time to mature those relationships and get everybody comfortable. Um, the developers have been really supportive. The OWGP money comes from. A developer contribution. So they are playing their part. Absolutely they are. We need to find the right way for manufacturing businesses to scale and then start pumping in innovations into that capacity so it stays competitive. You know, it’s a build capacity that’s competitive today. Feed it with innovation so it stays competitive and gets better and better and better.  Allen Hall: How far off the technology chain do you want them to be before you consider them to be part of the supply chain  Peter Giddings: today? Uh, 21st of January, 2026. There is good money for people that are within about a year of getting their technology to market. So that’s the, the approximate. Um, you’ll notice I dodge TRLI don’t think it’s super helpful. Um, time to market is, uh, is, is [00:16:00] really a good indicator. Yeah. Alan’s, give me the thumbs up of someone that’s done a TRL assessment or two. Um, we, we are looking for businesses that are commercially. Viable. They have relationships with customers. Um, they’re trading the earliest currently, and it’s currently, um, is like a year, maybe two years to market at the outside and up, um, we’re working with. And so that’s not just OWGP, that’s across the funding streams that are available. Um, and there are many we are working with and hopeful in the next week or two to have, um. A positive result from the UK government on earlier stage innovation funding so that we can align the early stage innovation at the problems that really count for making businesses competitive. You know, to be super clear, that’s not gonna be OWGP Cash. Our hope is that it’s OWGP derived questions [00:17:00] delivered by the innovation institute’s offshore renewable energy catapult, the high value manufacturing catapults. Academia, innovative businesses. Those guys do the innovation and we work together with them and with industry to really find the questions that count and we can focus our attention on commercializing that and scaling up the things that are commercial.  Allen Hall: Peter, walk us through how a UK supply chain company actually engages with OWGP. Uh, what does that. Uh, look like. And what are the, sort of the different options to, to engage with OWGP?  Peter Giddings: So I, I think the first thing to say is you, you don’t have to be UK today. We would love to attract businesses from overseas. Um, you can start a UK entity quite quickly. The first people, first place people tend to engage is in our, um, business, uh, support services. So we help, uh, businesses orientate themselves commercially. Understand how the contracting works, understand who [00:18:00] their, their pot potential customers are. Um, and that’s, yeah, it’s on our website. It’s Business Transformation Services, the West Program, wind Expert Services. There’s a t in there, there’s something else. Um, but that’s really the entry point for businesses that need to orientate themselves in the UK market. And we, and that. Intensity and the, the depth of the commercial support kind of ramps up through base and up to sig sharing in growth. Um, and you’ll also see us in the next year or two, um, take a, a more proactive approach to supporting businesses commercially. Um, I’m actually down with a, a fantastic business in the blade supply chain, um, composite integration in Saltash, helping them build a strategic, um, business plan. So a little more than just going, oh, this is where you get your contract. Actually helping them model what a future bigger business would look like and what they will need to do to, to reach it. You know, commercial support is growing for us. I think it could be really important, right? It’s [00:19:00] new for us, so, you know, we’ll learn. But the first point of call, go to the website, get in touch with the team, um, and often people choose that commercial support, the business transformation. We also run grant funding. Um, we have innovation calls. Um, we have a whole range of different calls going from innovation up to development into Dev X. So manufacturing, um, facility support program, they’re all grant. You can choose to pay them back. You do need to be UK entity, but you need to be quite close to market that one to two year zone with commercial traction. Um, and again, information is available. There is a team of people. Who are really great at taking those triaging, figuring out what’s right for you, what’s not, and if it’s not something from us, we do and we are delighted to pass you on to other people. You know, if you talk to us, we will make sure you find a home.[00:20:00] I think that’s really important to say.  Allen Hall: I think that’s very critical and one of the more difficult. Periods for, uh, it’s a smaller company to become bigger and be part of this massive supply chain, is that sort of 1 million pound, the 5 million pound kind of business, which has a technology which has proven itself and is delivering something or very close to delivering something. That transition is incredibly hard and getting some help there and some advice even would make the transition so much shorter and more efficient than what it typically is. That’s what OWGP does. So it’s not just the money. Obviously money helps everything generally. It’s the context, it’s the advice, it’s the knowledge that, uh, OWGP brings to the table that helps you grow your technology, your small business, into that mid-tier business and takes that mid-tier business into that gigantic world leader business. Those are the things that are, [00:21:00] are so hard to quantify, to put some, uh, some people in place. Boy, OWGP can really ramp up and has, the UK in general has done this many, many times. So I, I, I just encourage everybody who’s listening to this podcast to think about OWGP as a contact point and reach out. And Peter, how can they do that? What are the first steps to contact OWGP?  Peter Giddings: It’s always best to come in through our website. So my contact details will be in the, um, in the show notes, but you, you can look at the different programs there are contact US buttons all over it. Um, it also gives you sight of the industrial growth plan, um, and the priority areas. We are trying where we can to focus our efforts on those priority areas, and we would absolutely be delighted to hear from businesses active in the IGB priorities. Um, if you are, if you are not in one of those, you’re not excluded, come talk to us and we, we are supporting ambitious [00:22:00] businesses. We’re just focusing most of our efforts on the ones that are aligned to priority. We’re, we’re on your team. We would like to hear from you. Um, yeah, do, do start with the website. Hit one of the contact buttons you’ll come into to one of the team and we will connect you in. Um, I think that’s probably the, the best way  Allen Hall: and the website is ow gp.org.uk. Very easy to get to. You can just Google it and it’ll come right up. There’s a ton of information on that website. Peter, thank you so much for being on the podcast. I really appreciate this. Learned a lot and very excited for what the UK is about to do.  Peter Giddings: I’m looking forward to talking to you again.

Allen, Rosemary, Yolanda, and Matthew discuss highlights from Blades USA including the carbon blade debate. Plus TPI Composites’ bankruptcy sale hits major obstacles as partners dispute over $100M in claims. And Europe’s offshore and onshore wind developers clash over state aid, with WindEurope’s new CEO urging unity. Sign up now for Uptime Tech News, our weekly newsletter on all things wind technology. This episode is sponsored by Weather Guard Lightning Tech. Learn more about Weather Guard’s StrikeTape Wind Turbine LPS retrofit. Follow the show on YouTube, Linkedin and visit Weather Guard on the web. And subscribe to Rosemary’s “Engineering with Rosie” YouTube channel here. Have a question we can answer on the show? Email us! [00:00:00] The Uptime Wind Energy Podcast brought to you by Strike Tape, protecting thousands of wind turbines from lightning damage worldwide. Visit strike tape.com. And now your hosts.  Allen Hall 2025: Welcome to the Uptime Wind Energy Podcast. I’m your host Alan Hall, and I’m here with Yolanda Padron, Rosemary Barnes and Matthew Stead. Yolanda and Matthew have just wrapped up a couple of days at the Blade USA forum in Austin, Texas. Maybe we should start there. Thoughts on the forum this year? Things that were highlights?  Matthew Stead: Yeah. Lightning Root de bond. One positive was that, um, there are a couple of startups there, so, you know, kudos to them for, you know, making the investment. There was a. There was a startup around, you know, data analytics and, you know, bringing machine learning in. And then there was also another startup looking at recycling. [00:01:00] Um, really trying to get that, that food chain through of, um, you know, grinding and then turning into some sort of valuable product. Um, yeah. However, I think someone also from EPRI said that, you know, at the moment, you know, the recycling path is, you know, eight times more expensive than the, um, the landfill path. There was a lot of carbon discussion actually. So, and, um, yeah, a lot of discussion about repairs, a lot of discussion about testing, uh, a lot of discussion about, you know, how maybe a carbon blade can last 40 years. Um, so a lot of discussion about lifetime extensions around carbon. Um, but, but, but, but, you know, really, really hard to repair.  Allen Hall 2025: That goes back to the comments Rosemary and Morton Hanberg made about carbon blades. Should we be making. Carbon blades are not. And I think Morton’s opinion, and maybe Rosemary’s, I don’t wanna speak for her, was carbon blades are okay, but they are really difficult to repair. Almost impossible to repair. And is it [00:02:00] worth even building them?  Rosemary Barnes: I think if you consider the blade in isolation, then it probably is adding more headaches than it’s worth. But carbon fiber is a bit of an enabler for improvements across the whole system of a, a wind turbine. ’cause when you take, like you can take a lot of weight out of a blade by using carbon fiber. I mean, it’s never been cheaper to make a blade with carbon fiber than an equivalent blade with glass. You do, you buy the more expensive carbon fiber blade because it’s lighter, a like, a lot lighter, and then you can take, um, weight. It, it reduces the requirements for basically every other component in the wind turbine, but especially stuff like the pitch bearings. Um, so you solve a lot of other problems, but you create blade problems. So. I think if you ask some of the only works on maintaining blades, then you’re gonna be like, why would you make a carbon fiber blade? It is so much headache. Um, but that’s not the reason why they were ever made in the first place. [00:03:00] So you’d need to talk to, you know, somebody on, uh, I dunno, front end engineering. Someone from the sales team about why it is that they are going with a more expensive carbon fiber blade. Even acknowledging that they probably underestimate how many problems there are with o and m with, uh, carbon fiber blades. But even so, like they’re already aware that there are trade offs. Um, and yeah, there’s non blade reasons for, for taking, taking that pain.  Allen Hall 2025: Are there other fibers that could be substituted besides carbon? There, I, I know fiberglass. A, a good, relatively strong fiber and carbon obviously is much stronger. But are there things in the middle that could be substituted that are non-conductive? Rosemary Barnes: Uh, y yeah, there are, but carbon fibers, it’s not just strong. It’s really stiff. And that’s what its benefit is. Um, like there’s Kevlar but it’s not very stiff. So you would, we would make a really heavy blade if you used Kevlar. It would be probably bulletproof though. So I guess that would be a plus. I, I haven’t looked into it recently, but nothing is [00:04:00] at the, um, like got the performance specs and the cost specs that you would need to, um, make it replace carbon fiber. Matthew Stead: So one thing that I picked up I thought was pretty, uh, interesting was that by having a stronger, you know, carbon protrusion, you know, the, you know, the backbone of the blade, um, it took a little bit of pressure off the skin. And so therefore, um, you know, the life, life of the blade, um, and the ability to keep running it ’cause the skin is not so critical. Those seem to be a real, a real plus as well.  Rosemary Barnes: I don’t know, people talk about this in like absolutes, but everything is just a con continuum, right? Like you can make an all glass blade that would last a thousand years if you really wanted to. You just, you know, you just have to make it very, very strong. ’cause it’s, you know, it’s all based on fatigue lifetime. And the smaller that your, um, strain on every component in the blade is, then the less, um, the less fatigue damage is gonna accumulate. Making it a little bit stiffer will actually increase the lifetime by [00:05:00] a a lot. I think the main benefit to protrusions is just that you avoid all of the um, or you avoid a lot of the possibilities for manufacturing defects. It’s easy to control the manufacture ’cause carbon fiber, like much more so than glass fiber. It’s so, um, it’s so dependent on the fibers being perfectly straight. If you have a little wrinkle, like a little wrinkle is bad in glass fiber, but it’s like really bad in carbon fiber. So protrusions mean that you won’t get wrinkles. Uh, and you can, you know, control the manufacturing process a lot better, but they are barely repairable, right? So that’s the trade off. You can do some small repairs, but you’re not gonna be just. Um, if you’ve got a, a, a full thickness crack or something, it’s, you know, it’s gonna be game over. You’re not gonna be building that up again. Allen Hall 2025: Delamination and bottomline failures and blades are difficult problems to [00:06:00] detect early. These hidden issues can cost you millions in repairs and lost energy production. C-I-C-N-D-T are specialists to detect these critical flaws before they become expensive burdens. Their non-destructive test technology penetrates deep to blade materials to find voids and cracks. Traditional inspections, completely. Miss C-I-C-N-D-T Maps. Every critical defect delivers actionable reports and provides support to get your blades. Back in service, so visit cic ndt.com because catching blade problems early  Yolanda Padron: will save you millions.  Allen Hall 2025: Well keep going on the, the subject of blades. Imagine if you were selling your house and you told the bank you owe nothing on it. Then the bank shows up with a bill for over a hundred million dollars. That is essentially what’s happening right now in the TPI composites bankruptcy. Uh, the wind blade manufacturer canceled its [00:07:00] February 17th asset auction after only one bidder came forward. A firm called ECP five LLC, which is, uh, part of Energy Capital Partners, which is based in New Jersey. Uh, but before TPI. Can hand over the keys. It has to settle up with its business partners. TPI told the court many of those partners were owed little or nothing. Uh, the partners check their books. Strongly disagree. Now, the judge has a mountain of competing claims to sort through before the sale can close. And everyone, I mean, the, the claims are big. Uh, there are several large names listed, and if you go through the filings, uh, Siemens C Mesa is probably the largest one, and it, it claims TPI owes about 84 million plus an unpaid inspection, repair, and replacement costs. Plus under 22 million [00:08:00]under apparent guarantee. Others include Aurora Energy Services stating it is owned about $5 million, uh, for post-bankruptcy services, plus 38,000, uh, for before the filing of bankruptcy. The landlord up in Iowa for the TPI facility there is objecting because they’re owed some rent. Some other ones include, uh. Oracle, uh, which is, uh, has a lot of software licenses that TPI currently has, and they’re saying those licenses will not swap over to the new owner. So there, this is a series of these filings going on at the minute, and they’re pushing back the closing of the, uh, sale hearing until March 9th. So they got about another two weeks as we record right now. This is a big deal and, and although I have seen almost nothing about it in the press. Because it’s hard. One, it’s hard to find, and two, it’s really [00:09:00] difficult to sort through. Uh, but it is a major milestone for TPI that they’re gonna be able to sell the, or at least transfer ownership to, uh, energy capital partners. And the none of the buyers investors had bought part of the facilities. But GE Renova or Siemens cesa, for that matter, are not involved, at least at the top level. Which is really to, in my opinion, odd. I thought GE Renova would’ve been involved, at least at some level. They have been supporting TPI through this process. But in terms of going forward, doesn’t look like too much is going on with Renova or Siemens Ga Mesa in, in terms of the operations of these facilities. Thoughts.  Rosemary Barnes: Yeah, I agree. It’s strange that they wouldn’t have taken that opportunity and that makes me wonder what I don’t know that, you know, ’cause obviously it’s not a strange decision to the people who have made it so. They’ve got more information, a lot more information than us. So what is it that made it unappealing to them? That’s, um, that’s my question. [00:10:00] Yolanda Padron: What did TP, I think was gonna happen with all of that money that they owe everyone?  Allen Hall 2025: Well, it’s a bankruptcy hearing. Obviously they like to wipe that debt free and so would Energy Capital partners. They don’t wanna pay the a hundred million plus of whatever, uh, the court would ict, but. You just like to get the assets. If you can do it, that’s your cheapest option if you’re Energy Capital partners. But do you see Energy Capital Partners running the facilities? There’s a lot of organization within TPI that manages those facilities and controls the operation. From the quality side engineering side, there’s, there’s a lot of pieces to TPI here. Do you think they’re just gonna pick it up and run, run the company as it stands today? Or, or,  Rosemary Barnes: oh my goodness. I would be so nervous to, um, buy blades, uh, from them in that situation. I mean, we’ve seen so many examples in the last few years of decisions being made by senior management that have really compromised the quality at the end of the day. Like in theory, yes, the factory, you know, all the processes are in place to do things. Um, to do things [00:11:00] right, but you know, as soon as they get the next new project, which they’re doing constantly, right? It’s not like they just make a blade and they just make it over and over again. They make many different kinds of blades. There’s decisions to be made and you’re trying to get the price right and the quality right. And then, you know, given that we know that TPI was not profitable the way they were doing it before, they’re gonna have to spend less money. Then somebody who isn’t from the industry is making those calls about where to save it. It just seems like totally implausible to me.  Matthew Stead: Can I just add though, you know, TPI was mentioned multiple times at, um, at Blades, USA, and so, you know, a lot of people are relying on them or have relied on them and so forth. And so maybe this is a strategy about supporting the industry into the future. Like I think Alan, you, you said that they’re involved in, um, this investment business has other wind assets, so maybe it’s just like. Securing supply chain and, which I mean, that’s a pretty logical approach, isn’t it?  Allen Hall 2025: Oh, it would be. Uh, they’re about 50% owners of Ted’s US onshore fleet and a number. There are [00:12:00] other projects they’re involved in a number of renewable projects. Uh, so it would make sense for them to try to keep the supply chain going. But the largest purchaser of GB GE turbines that I know of is NextEra. So you would think NextEra would want to step into the mix too and at least in all the court filings, I haven’t seen much from NextEra or nothing from them at all. It if Osted US is wanting to keep their supply chain and Energy Capital partners wanted to keep the supply chain going, that would make a lot of sense to me. However, I just don’t know if they have the infrastructure to manage it. As Rosemary has described on numerous occasions running LM wind power is not easy. There’s just a lot of moving pieces, supply chain problems. You’ve got people problems, you have quality problems, you have repair problems, warranty issues. It’s a lot to that business. It isn’t like you’re stamping out widgets. You, you have a responsibility to that product after it goes out into [00:13:00] service. So if you have problems out in service, you’re, you’re kind of on the hook for all those warranty claims. It’s complicated.  Rosemary Barnes: You make it sound like I was running lm  Yolanda Padron: Rosie runs the world. Rosemary Barnes: I just wanna make it clear I was not running lm  Allen Hall 2025: Not yet. Rosie. There’s still time.  Rosemary Barnes: I was ru running one very tiny, tiny corner of it.  Yolanda Padron: I’d almost be curious ’cause like since ECP is so much into risk management and just, just in general, they have so many things that they are like part owners in, but they don’t necessarily manage the day to day hands on. Uh. I’d almost be curious to see if maybe they take a page out of Rosie’s book and try to make one thing. Well,  Matthew Stead: mm, that’d be novel, wouldn’t it?  Rosemary Barnes: It has actually been tried before. Um, you know, it’s, it’s uh, not something that has escaped the notice of blade engineers, uh, that if you make one thing, you can do it right. And wind turbine blades are a pretty similar there. No, you know, like great [00:14:00] differentiator between. How well performing the blades are from one company to another. I know at, at least at lm, they did have a blade that they designed, and their plan was to sell just heaps and heaps of those to multiple different manufacturers and just no one wanted it. Um, so it just quietly died. Um, so yeah, the, the concept is good. I think it’s. A little bit harder to pull off than you would hope. There are also some Chinese companies that are kind of selling just parts, generic parts. And so if you wanted to make your own wind turbine, um, company, if you wanted to be a wind energy o and m Yolanda, you could just buy an assortment of parts from Chinese manufacturers and put a. Yolanda Wind energy sticker on it and um, and, and, and you could be an an OEM. So it is, it, it, it is possible. I haven’t seen any of these out in the wild. Um, I have [00:15:00] heard of, you know, people considering it for, you know, certain aspects of certain types of projects. So it kind of exists in a way.  Matthew Stead: But the financial aspect, I mean, that’s accounting 1 0 1, I mean. You gotta know your assets and to owe people a hundred million dollars, that’s absolutely shocking. Really?  Allen Hall 2025: They owed a lot more than that before the bankruptcy. It is a lot of money.  Matthew Stead: How do you miss that?  Allen Hall 2025: Well, I don’t think they missed it. I just think the warranty claims and some of the repair that was going on and the, the, it sounded like price discounting was happening to some of the OEMs just caught up to ’em. But at the end of the day, I, I, I guess the question is. Does TPI as an entity remain? Obviously the Vestas portion will, because Vestas is gonna make them Vestas factories in a sense, and, uh, integrate as part of their overall operations. But Renova is not, Siemens is not interested in doing it, at least as we speak. No one’s [00:16:00] making any noise over at Nordex. It, it does leave these assets questionable as to what the real value is. We haven’t heard how much, uh, ECP has paid for them yet. The Vestas factories that were purchased, I think the, the two TPI factories in Mexico, I think Vestas paid about $10 million for each factory, which is a really inexpensive price to pay for new factories because Vestus had talked about at one point a year or two ago, about standing up a new factory saying it would cost him roughly a half a billion dollars to do. So buying a, that same asset for $10 million is a discount, a deep, deep discount, which maybe Vestas figures, Hey, it’s 20 million bucks, plus they got the India operations. Uh, it’s not that much money. If it all goes sour, it’s not that much money and we’re okay. Whereas Ver Nova decided to not to participate in that. As wind energy professionals, staying informed is crucial, and let’s face it difficult. That’s why [00:17:00] the Uptime podcast recommends PES Wind Magazine. PES Wind offers a diverse range of in-depth articles and expert insights that dive into the most pressing issues facing our energy future. Whether you’re an industry veteran or new to wind, PES Wind has the high quality content you need. Don’t miss out. Visit p ps wind.com. Today, over in Denmark, a fight has been brewing between offshore and onshore wind developers and. Sted once State Aid brought back for offshore wind auctions, onshore developers say that would tilt the playing field against them. Well, some have even walked out on their own trade group, uh, over it. Now the new CEO of Wind Europe, Tina Van Stratton, uh, is stepping in the middle of that discussion with a simple message. We need both. Don’t let offshore and onshore wind divide us. Nearly 90% of Europe’s installed wind capacity sits currently on land, and [00:18:00] she says that is not going to change anytime soon. Uh, so there, there is a big dispute about this right there. There does seem to be a, a amount of money being poured into offshore wind and requests of governments to support offshore wind at the same time. Onshore wind, which has been the primary growth market for wind in Europe, is getting the cold shoulder. In a sense. How does this play out everyone? Is there a, a good solution to it or is the need for offshore wind so great that, that they have to ignore onshore wind development for a couple of years?  Matthew Stead: I think we should just all be friends. So, I mean, really. Yeah, we need both and, um, I mean for the diversity and, you know, uh, I’ll leave all the technical topics to Rosie, but, um, um, really I think we need both. I mean, so what, it’d be crazy to, to drop the onshore, onshore industry.  Yolanda Padron: Yeah. I mean, it makes sense that, or said, especially Orid Europe doesn’t have any onshore anymore. Right. So it’s just [00:19:00]offshore. It would make sense that they really wanna push for help for themselves. And it’s, it’s great. It, it’s, it’s great to help, but I, I agree with Matt. Allen Hall 2025: Well, the Northern Europe and Scandinavian countries are talking about 100 gigawatts in the water by what, 2050? Something of that sort. So that’s a lot of energy in the water. In order to do that, you have to devote a number of resources to it, which. Will mean onshore wind is not gonna get the support it probably deserves, even though it has a proven track record. Rosemary Barnes: I just think it, it’s really interesting because I guess wind is, um, a very Europe. LED industry. Um, and so yeah, in Europe, e everything big and exciting is in offshore and the volume is in offshore. Um, I feel like that’s kind of filtered through to other regions though, because I mean, in Australia we don’t even have any offshore wind yet. We are probably getting some, but you go to any wind energy event, it’s gonna be. [00:20:00] More than 50% offshore wind and sometimes like 90% offshore wind, um, focused, which is, I think crazy when onshore is, is exists and has plenty of problems that need to be solved, and we need to be building more, a lot faster. I, I do actually wish that. If we could spend as much of the, you know, like some of the effort and the political effort that’s going into paving the way for offshore wind, I think would be much better spent on solving the problems. Um, the obstacles stopping us from rolling out onshore wind faster. Because we’re not on track in Australia to meet our renewable energy targets if we can’t get that under control. And then in the US yes you have some offshore wind, but it is not a growth industry at the moment or it’s not very appealing at the moment, at least. Right. So, and I dunno how much you talk about it there, but I do hear a lot of, like a whole lot of talk about offshore compared to how important it is for regions outside of Europe. Yolanda Padron: I think it’s important too to [00:21:00] note that. When you have a lot of offshore wind in your fleet, like you can sometimes test out products onshore that maybe they’re, of course not the exact same conditions, but you can test out products to a degree onshore. And I’ve seen, you know, owner operators that have to go across continents just to test that product because it’s cheaper to do that onshore than to do it offshore in your home site, in your backyard. So I mean that that would really benefit from an RD standpoint. It would really benefit everyone. If  Allen Hall 2025: they gave it up attention  Yolanda Padron: to onshore.  Rosemary Barnes: When I was at lm, one of my, well my key team member who was an electrical engineer, he had, um, done a bunch of work for a system that was only implemented on an offshore wind farm. And it sucked up so much time when stuff started going wrong with that, like even small things. And he was the only one [00:22:00] that could do it. You know, you go out, if you’ve got a five minute job to do, to get, you know, like turn something off and on again off. Reconnect something that’s a whole day of work, right? Like you, and, and not like a normal day, but like a 12 hour day, you’re gonna go out in the morning, they, you know, they go around in a boat or whatever and drop people off and they don’t come get you when you’re done 10 minutes later, you know, they come get you at the end of the day when they’re picking everyone up again. So, um, it, it was, it was incredibly challenging. I mean, for him personally and the team. Um, and I always recommend to, or, you know, sometimes I’m advising, um, companies that have offshore wind, um, technologies. And I’m always advising anything that you can test on shore, do it and get creative about it as well. ’cause you might think that you can’t, you certainly can’t get all the way there without testing in your real operating environment. But any problem that could happen onshore that you, um, learn about when it’s onshore is gonna cost you probably like, you know, one 10th as much [00:23:00] to fix. Um. So, and, and the time as well. So, yeah, I, I think that you’re right that we should be actually considering onshore as an opportunity for, um, improving offshore technology as well.  Allen Hall 2025: Can we talk about, uh, data centers for a minute? Just off the top of mind, I’ve been listening to a number of podcasts over the last month or two talking about powering AI data centers and how much coal or natural gas. It’s gonna be needed to provide the stable, reliable power that these data centers supposedly need. In the meantime, there’s like this industry being built, uh, and you see the, the purchases of gas turbines going out to like, what, 2032? I think it’s what Renova is talking about now is when you could actually get in line for a gas turbine. Other manufacturers or gas turbines are basically saying the same thing in the meantime. [00:24:00] Elon Musk and SpaceX are talking about putting AI data centers up in space where you don’t have any regulatory issues. You don’t have to burn coal or natural gas or any of these things. So the, the ground-based AI data centers appear to be locked into making these really expensive buildings and assets and putting generation and transmission and, and this infrastructure together, which will cost them. Hundreds of millions at a minimum, likely tens of billions of dollars to do, and that’s just in the United States. Meanwhile, SpaceX is really on a pathway of doing this up in the sky for probably a fraction of the cost. Is there a break point here? Because it does seem like the, the natural gas, coal, oil, petroleum industry and the on ground build, the building, people are ignoring that. SpaceX has a [00:25:00] capability of doing this, and if Musk decides to do it, and SpaceX decides to do it, that all those gas turbine orders, all that infrastructure, all the gas pipeline, all the drilling that would have to happen would just go immediately. Poof. Gone.  Rosemary Barnes: I don’t know about immediately because I mean, we’re not at the point yet where you can just launch a data center into space. So there is a bit of a, a, a transition period. Um, I. I also think that it’s overblown that, you know, I think you might have even fallen into the trap also, where you’re like, oh, when data centers need more energy, so therefore it has to be coal or gas or nuclear.  Allen Hall 2025: Nope, I agree with you.  Rosemary Barnes: Those things aren’t quick to build either. If you truly wanted to do it quickly, you’d be putting in, um, you know, heaps of solar panels and batteries and, and you know, wind turbines where that made sense. But that said, I, I do agree that, uh, like I, I don’t think space-based data centers is farfetched at all. I, I guess the biggest [00:26:00] challenges, uh, are, um, the cooling and heating requirements space has very large temperature fluctuations. So I guess you’re gonna need to design that carefully. I don’t think it’s insurmountable. Um, and then the next thing is a cost of launch, which I’m sure you’re about to tell me how. Dramatically the cost of launch is dropping. Um, you know, like, it, it’s got, it’s got a very good learning curve. The space launches, which is basically, you know, SpaceX is probably the main reason why that is just dropping and dropping and dropping. So I don’t think that it’s unrealistic at all. I don’t know the timeframe. You would know more, Alan, you work in, um, aerospace. I just. You know, um, follow it for general interest.  Matthew Stead: I reckon it’s stupid. He’s really stupid on a number of grounds. So first of all, you know, why do that when. You just, I can’t see how it can ever be more cost effective and you know, [00:27:00] I, you know, you should really, should be putting that effort into things like, you know, better healthcare and so forth. I mean, what a waste of resources. But why? I mean, why, why?  Allen Hall 2025: Because it’s a lot less expensive and it’s faster.  Matthew Stead: You’d do it in the ocean before that, wouldn’t you?  Rosemary Barnes: No, but the ocean still has, like how do you power it? You, you get the 24 7 solar power in space. That’s what you. That’s what you get, um, which you can’t get on Earth  Matthew Stead: or you put it next to a wind farm and you, you, and you make the load go up and down depending on the wind. I mean, seriously, there’s so many other ways of doing it. You put it next to a wind and solar.  Rosemary Barnes: I agree with you, Matt, that I think that the, the bulk of the solutions with data centers is gonna come from one demand not being what people think it is today. Like the numbers that get reported are just like the. Absolute best, best, best case scenario and then multiplied by three or four times because they’re looking at different options for locating each of the data centers they plan to make. So I think I wouldn’t be surprised if we end up with 10% of what people think that we’re gonna get. [00:28:00] Now, the first thing, secondly, people assume that it needs to be 24 7. Just, you know, like a hundred percent reliable power, and that’s. That’s simply, yeah, it’s not, not everything needs to be just, um, you know, done at, at the exact time that it’s requested. There’s heaps of things that can be shifted and uh, when the price differential is there, then people are naturally going to choose that. And in fact, there are already some companies offering different levels of reliability depend, you know, for different prices. And companies can choose which of their processes can be put on hold. Like a lot of the training stuff, you’re happy don’t. Need 99.999% reliability, you’re probably happy with 90% reliability. And so, you know, if it costs a whole lot less than you will, I, I agree with you, Matt, that that’s gonna take most of it. But I do still think that for the, like, super reliable, um, data centers, I, I bet that we see at least one. And even if it’s just because Elon Musk is the type to push something through, um, you know, [00:29:00] first and. Wait for the market to catch up later. Uh, maybe that will be the reason, but I, I honestly think it’s more than 50% likely that we see a data center in space in the next, in the next decade,  Matthew Stead: it would make more sense to like drill a hole to the center of the earth and get the, the hot well cutting rock  Rosemary Barnes: and or there’s also plenty of geothermal. You did thermal projects as well.  Matthew Stead: Yeah, it’s just ridiculous.  Rosemary Barnes: I think that we’ve had our first hot take from Matthew, so I don’t know some sort of sound effect to be added here. Claire. Uh, yeah, Allen Hall 2025: that wraps up another episode of the Uptime Wind Energy Podcast. If today’s discussion sparked any questions or ideas, we’d love to hear from you. Just reach out to us on LinkedIn and don’t forget to subscribe so you never miss an episode. And if you found value in today’s conversation, please give us a review. It really helps other wind energy professionals discover the show. For Rosa, Yolanda and [00:30:00] Matthew, I’m Alan Hall, and we’ll see you next week on the Uptime Wind Energy Podcast.

Allen covers Vestas’ turbine supply deal with RWE for the 1.4 GW Vanguard West offshore project in England and its bid for TPI Composites’ blade factories in bankruptcy court. Plus Germany’s Nordlicht One foundations arrive ahead of schedule and Enel buys $1 billion in US wind and solar assets. Sign up now for Uptime Tech News, our weekly newsletter on all things wind technology. This episode is sponsored by Weather Guard Lightning Tech. Learn more about Weather Guard’s StrikeTape Wind Turbine LPS retrofit. Follow the show on YouTube, Linkedin and visit Weather Guard on the web. And subscribe to Rosemary’s “Engineering with Rosie” YouTube channel here. Have a question we can answer on the show? Email us! You know … there is a company in Denmark that makes wind turbines. Vestas. And this week … Vestas had itself quite a week. On one hand … the Danish giant just locked in a deal to supply ninety-two of its massive V236 turbines to RWE’s Vanguard West project off the east coast of England. One-point-four gigawatts of offshore wind. Each turbine … fifteen megawatts. That project just won a Contract for Difference in the UK’s Allocation Round Seven. RWE and its partner KKR want a final investment decision by this summer … and power flowing by twenty twenty-nine. And this is part of something bigger. RWE signed preferred supplier agreements with Vestas back in December of twenty twenty-three for the entire four-point-two gigawatt Norfolk Wind Zone. That is three massive projects … off one English coast. So Vestas is building turbines for the British. But here is where it gets interesting. Over in a Houston bankruptcy court … wind blade maker TPI Composites has been carving up its assets since filing Chapter Eleven last August. A firm called ECP V acquired the bulk of TPI’s remaining operations. They were the only bidder. The auction … canceled. But certain facilities in Mexico and India? Those were carved out of the deal entirely. And the company circling those assets? Vestas. The very same Vestas building turbines for England has put in its own qualified bid for the blade-making plants that once served it as a customer. So while one hand signs turbine contracts … the other reaches into bankruptcy court to secure its own supply chain. Now … across the North Sea in Germany … the Nordlicht offshore wind cluster just hit a milestone of its own. The first monopiles and transition pieces for Nordlicht One … finished ahead of schedule. Sixty-eight foundations. Each monopile … eighty meters long. Nearly thirteen hundred tonnes of steel. When complete … Nordlicht One will be Germany’s largest offshore wind farm at nine hundred and eighty megawatts. Combined with Nordlicht Two … the cluster will generate six terawatt-hours of clean electricity every year. And then there is Italy’s Enel. The power giant announced it is buying eight hundred and thirty megawatts of American wind and solar assets from Excelsior Energy Capital … for one billion dollars. That deal closes later this year. And it will push Enel’s North American renewable capacity to thirteen gigawatts. Globally … Enel Green Power now commands sixty-eight gigawatts of clean energy. So let us step back and look at the picture. A Danish turbine maker wins a massive English contract … while quietly bidding on bankrupt blade factories to protect its own supply chain. German foundations arrive ahead of schedule. And an Italian energy giant bets one billion dollars on American renewables. From the North Sea to the Gulf of Mexico … from English coastlines to Houston courtrooms … wind energy is not slowing down. It is building … faster. And now you know … the rest of the story. Good day!

Allen, Rosemary, and Yolanda discuss Ming Yang’s proposed $1.5 billion factory in Scotland and why the UK government is hesitating. Plus the challenges of reviving wind turbine manufacturing in Australia, how quickly a blade factory can be stood up, and whether advanced manufacturing methods could give Australia a competitive edge in the next generation of wind energy. Sign up now for Uptime Tech News, our weekly newsletter on all things wind technology. This episode is sponsored by Weather Guard Lightning Tech. Learn more about Weather Guard’s StrikeTape Wind Turbine LPS retrofit. Follow the show on YouTube, Linkedin and visit Weather Guard on the web. And subscribe to Rosemary’s “Engineering with Rosie” YouTube channel here. Have a question we can answer on the show? Email us! The Uptime Wind Energy Podcast brought to you by Strike Tape, protecting thousands of wind turbines from lightning damage worldwide. Visit strike tape.com And now your hosts.  Allen Hall: Welcome to the Uptime Wind Energy Podcast. I’m your host Allen Hall, and I’m here with Yolanda Padron and Rosemary Barnes, and we’re all in Australia at the same time. We’re getting ready for Woma 2026, which is going to happen when this release is, will be through the first day. Uh, it’ll, it’s gonna be a big conference and right now. We’re so close to, to selling it out within a couple of people, so it’ll be a great event. So those of you listening to this podcast, hopefully you’re at Wilma 2026 and we’ll see, see you there. Uh, the news for this week, there’s a number of, of big, uh, country versus country situations going on. Uh, the one at the moment is [00:01:00] ING Yang in Scotland, and as we know, uh, Scotland. It has been offered by Ming Yang, uh, to build a factory there. They’re put about one and a half billion pounds into Scotland, uh, that is not going so well. So, so they’re talking about 3000 jobs, 1.5 billion in investment and then. Building, uh, offshore turbines for Britain and the larger Europe, but the UK government is hesitating and they have not approved it yet. And Scotland’s kind of caught in the middle. Ming Yang is supposedly looking elsewhere that they’re tired of waiting and figure they can probably get another factory somewhere in Europe. I don’t think this is gonna end well. Everyone. I think Bing Yang is obviously being pushed by the Chinese, uh, government to, to explore Scotland and try to get into Scotland and the Scottish government and leaders in the Scottish government have been meeting with, uh, [00:02:00] Chinese officials for a year or two. From what I can tell, if this doesn’t end with the factory in Scotland. Is China gonna take it out on the uk? And are they gonna build, is is me gonna be able to build a factory in Europe? Europe at the minute is looking into the Chinese investments into their wind turbine infrastructure in, in terms of basically tax support and, and funding and grants of that, uh, uh, aspect to, to see if China is undercutting prices artificially. Uh, which I think the answer is gonna be. Yes. So where does this go? It seems like a real impasse. At a moment when the UK in particular, and Europe, uh, the greater Europe are talking about more than a hundred gigawatts of offshore wind,  Yolanda Padron: I mean, just with the, the business that you mentioned that’s coming into to the uk, right? Will they have without Min Yang the ability to, to reach their goals?  Allen Hall: So you have the Siemens [00:03:00] factory in hall. They have a Vestus factory in Hollow White on the sort of the bottom of the country. Right. Then Vestus has had a facility there for a long time and the UK just threw about 20 million pounds into reopening the onshore blade portion of that factory ’cause it had been mothballed several months ago. It does seem like maybe there’s an alternative plan within the UK to stand up its own blade manufacturing and turbine manufacturing facilities, uh, to do a lot of things in country. Who I don’t think we know. Is it Siemens? Is it ge? Is it Vestus or is it something completely British? Maybe all the above. Rosemary. You know, being inside of a Blade factory for a long time with lm, it’s pretty hard to stand up a Blade factory quickly. How many years would it take you if you wanted to start today? Before you would actually produce a a hundred meter long offshore blade,  Rosemary Barnes: I reckon you could do it in a year if you had like real, real strong motivation [00:04:00] Allen Hall: really. Rosemary Barnes: I think so. I mean, it’s a big shed and like, it, it would be, most of the delays would be like regulatory and, you know, hiring, getting enough people hired and trained and that sort of thing. But, um, if you had good. Support from the, the government and not too much red tape to deal with. Then, uh, you know, if you’ve got lots of manufacturing capability elsewhere, then you can move people. Like usually when, um, when I worked at LM there were a few new factories opened while I was working there, and I’m sure that they took longer than, than a year in terms of like when it was first thought of. But, um, you know, once the decision was made, I, I actually dunno how long, how long it took. So it is a guess, but it didn’t, it didn’t take. As long as you would think it wasn’t. It wasn’t years and years, that’s for sure. Um, and what they would do is they don’t, you know, hire a whole new workforce and train them up right from the start. And then once they’re ready to go, then they start operating. What they’ll do to start with is they’ve got, you know, like a bunch [00:05:00] of really good people from the global factories, like all around, um, who will go, um, you know, from all roles. And I’m not talking just management at all, like it will include technicians, um, you know, every, every role in the factory, they’ll get people from another factory to go over. And, um, you know, they do some of the work. They’re training up local people so you know, there’s more of a gradual handover. And also so that you know, the best practices, um, get spread from factory to factory and make a good global culture. ’cause obviously like you’ve got the same design everywhere. You want the same quality coming out everywhere. Um, there is, as much as you try and document everything should be documented in work instructions. That should make it, you know, impossible to do things wrong. However, you never quite get to that standard and, um. There is a lot, a lot to be said for just the know-how and the culture of the people doing the um, yeah, doing the work.  Allen Hall: So the infrastructure would take about a year to build, but the people would have to come from the broader Europe then at [00:06:00] least temporarily.  Rosemary Barnes: That, that would be the fastest and safest way to do it. Like if it’s a brand new company that has never made a wind turbine before and someone just got a few, you know, I don’t know, a billion dollars, and um, said, let’s start a wind turbine factory, then I think it’s gonna be a few years and there’s gonna be some learning curve before it starts making blades fast enough. And. With the correct quality. Um, yeah. But if you’re just talking about one more factory from a company that already has half a dozen or a dozen wind turbine blade factories elsewhere in the world, then that’s where I think it can be done fast.  Allen Hall: This, uh, type of situation actually pops up a lot in aerospace, uh, power plants, engines. The jet engines on a lot of aircraft are kind of a combined effort from. Big multinational companies. So if they want to build something in country, they’ll hook up with a GE or a, a Honeywell or somebody who makes Jet engines and they’ll create this division and they’ll [00:07:00] stand this, this, uh, plant up. Maybe it’s gonna be something like that where GB energy is in the middle, uh, providing the funding and some of the resources, but they bring in another company, like a Siemens, like a Vestas, like a GE or a Nordex even to come in and to. Do the operational aspects and maybe some of the training pieces. But, uh, there’s a, there’s a funding arm and a technical arm, and they create a standalone, uh, British company to go manufacture towers to go manufacture in the cells to manufacture blades. Is that where you think this goes?  Rosemary Barnes: It depends also what kind of, um, component you’re talking about. Like if you’re talking about, I, I was talking a specific example of wind turbine blades, which are a mediumly complex thing to make, I would say, um. Yeah. And then if you go on the simpler side, when turbine towers, most countries would have the. Rough expertise needed, um, to, to do that. Nearly all towers at the moment come out of [00:08:00] China, um, or out of Asia. And with China being the, the vast bulk of those. Um, and it’s because they’ve got, aside from having very, very cheap steel, um, they also have just got huge factories that are set up with assembly lines so that, you know, there’s not very much moving of things back and forth. So they have the exact right bit of equipment to do. The exact right kind of, you know, like rolling and welding and they’re not moving tower sections around a lot. That makes it really hard for, um, for other countries to compete. But it’s not because they couldn’t make towers, it’s because they would struggle to make them cheap enough. Um, so yeah, if you set up a factory, you know, say you set up a wind turbine, um, factory in, uh, wind turbine tower factory in Australia, you, you could buy the equipment that you needed for, you know, a few hundred million dollars and, um. You could make it, but unless you have enough orders to keep that factory busy, you know, with the, the volume that you need to keep all of that [00:09:00] modern equipment, uh, operating just absolutely around the clock, your towers are gonna be expensive out of that facility. So that’s kind of the, that it’s cost is the main barrier when it comes to towers  Allen Hall: with Vestus in Mitsubishi recently having a partnership and then ending that partnership. It would seem like Vestus has the most experience in putting large corporations together to work on a, an advanced wind turbine project is they would, it would make sense to me if, if, if Vestus was involved because Vestus also has facilities in the uk. Are they the leading choice you think just because they have that experience with Mitsubishi and they have something in country or you think it’s somebody else? Is it a ge  Rosemary Barnes: My instinct is saying Vestas. Yes,  Allen Hall: me too. Okay.  Rosemary Barnes: Ge. It’s wind turbine Manufacturing seems to be in a bit of a, more of an ebb rather than a flow right now, so I [00:10:00] mean that’s, that’s probably as much as what it’s based on. Um, and then yes, like the location of, of factories, there are already some vest, uh, factories, vest people in the uk so that would make it easier. : Delamination and bottomline failures and blades are difficult problems to detect early. These hidden issues can cost you millions in repairs and lost energy production. C-I-C-N-D-T are specialists to detect these critical flaws before they become expensive burdens. Their non-destructive test technology penetrates deep into blade materials to find voids and cracks. Traditional inspections completely miss. C-I-C-N-D-T Maps. Every critical defect delivers actionable reports and provides support to get your blades back in service. So visit cic ndt.com because catching blade problems early will save you millions.[00:11:00] Allen Hall: Can you build a renewable energy future on someone else’s supply chain? Well, in Australia, the last domestic wind tower manufacturers are down. Last year, after losing a 15 year battle against cheaper imports from China, now the Albanese government wants to try again, launching a consultation to revive local manufacturing. Meanwhile, giant turbines are rising in Western Australia’s. Largest wind farms soon to power 164,000 homes. Uh, the steel towers, blades and the cells, they all arrive on ships. And the question is whether that’s going to change anytime soon. Rosemary?  Rosemary Barnes: Yeah, it’s, uh, it’s a topic I’ve thought about a lot and done a fair bit of work on as well, local manufacturing and whether you should or shouldn’t, the Australian government does try to support local manufacturing in. General, um, and in particular for renewables, but they focused much more on solar and [00:12:00] batteries. Um, with their manufacturing support, Australian government and agencies like a uh, arena, Australian Renewable Energy Agency have not traditionally supported wind like at all. It bothers me because actually Australia is a fantastic place to be developing some of these supporting technologies for wind energy and even the next generation of wind energy. Um, technologies, we, not any manufacturing. There are heaps of, um, things that would make it more suitable Australia, like just actually a really natural place to develop that. The thing about Australian projects is that they are. Big. Right. That makes it really attractive to developers because like in Europe where they’re, you know, still building wind, but you know, an onshore wind farm in Europe is like a couple of turbines here or there, maybe five, like a big wind farm would be 10, 10 turbines over there. Um, in Australia it’s like a hundred, 200 turbines at a time. Um, for onshore also choosing. Really big turbines. Australians, for some reason, Australian developers really like to [00:13:00] choose the latest technologies. And then if we think about some of the, um, you know, like new supporting technologies for existing wind turbines, like, you know, let’s, um, talk about. O and m there’s a whole lot of, um, o and m technologies, and Australia’s a great place for that too because as Australia wind farms spend so much on o and m compared to other countries. So a technology provider that can improve some of those pain points can much quicker get like a positive, um, return on investment in Australia than they would be able to in somewhere like America or, or Europe. So I think it makes sense to develop here  Allen Hall: with the number of wind farms. Rosie, I, I completely agree with you and. When we were talking about the war Dge wind Farm, which is the Western Australian wind farm that’s gonna expand, they’re adding 30 turbines to provide 283 megawatts. That’s like a nine and a half megawatt machine. Those are big turbines. Those are new turbines, right? That’s not something that’s been around for a couple years. They’ve been around for a couple of months in, in terms of the lifespan of, of wind [00:14:00] turbines. So if Australia’s gonna go down the pathway of larger turbines, the, the most advanced turbines. It has to make sense that some of this has, has to be developed in country just because you need to have the knowledge to go repair, modify, improve, adjust, figure out what the next generation is, right? I don’t know how you, this happens.  Rosemary Barnes: We see some examples of that. Right. And I think that Fortescue is the best example of, um, companies that are trying to think forward to what they’re going to need to make their, you know, they’ve got ambitious plans for putting in some big wind farms with. Big wind turbines in really remote locations. So they’ve got a lot of, um, it’s a lot of obvious challenges there. Um, and I know that they’re thinking ahead and working through that. And so, you know, we saw their investment in, um, nbra wind, the Spanish company and in particular their nbra lift. The bit of the tower that attaches to the rotor. It looks [00:15:00] pretty normal. Um, but then they make it taller by, um, slotting in like a lattice framework. Um, and then they jack it up and slot in another one underneath and jack it up and slot in another one underneath. So they don’t need a gigantic crane and they don’t need, um, I mean, it’s still a huge crane, but they don’t, they don’t, it doesn’t need to be as, as big because, you know, the rotor starts, starts off already on there by the time that the tower gets su to its full height. So, um, yeah, it’s a lot. That’s an innovative solution, I think, and it would, I would be very surprised if they weren’t also looking at every other technology that they’re gonna need in these turbines.  Allen Hall: If Australia’s gonna go down the pathway of large turbines on shore, then the manufacturing needs to happen in country. There’s no other way to do it. And you could have manufacturing facilities in Western Australia or Victoria and still get massive turbine blades shipped or trucked either way. To [00:16:00] wherever they needed it to go. In country, it would, it’s not that hard to get around Australia and unlike other countries like, like Germany was a lot of mountains and you had bridges and narrow roads and all that, and it, it’s, it’s much more expansive in Australia where you can move big projects around. And obviously with all the, the mining that happens in Australia, it’s pretty much normal. So I, I just trying to get over the hurdle of where the Albanese government is having an issue of sort of pushing this forward. It seems like it’s a simple thing because the Australian infrastructure is already ready. Someone need to flip the switch and say go.  Rosemary Barnes: I don’t know if I’d say that we’re we’re ready. ’cause Australia doesn’t have a whole lot of manufacturing of anything at the moment. It’s not true that we have no manufacturing. That’s what Australians like to say. We don’t manufacture anything and that’s not true. We do manufacture. We have some pretty good advanced manufacturing. If you just look at the hard economics of wind turbine manufacturing in Australia of solar panel manufacturing, battery manufacturing. Any of that, it is cheaper to just get it from China, not least [00:17:00] because some of the, um, those components are subsidized by the, the Chinese government. If you start saying, okay, we’re gonna have local manufacturing, like, you can either, you can achieve that either by supporting the local manufacturing industry, you know, like giving subsidies to our manufacturing. Or you could, um, make a local content requirement. Um, say things, you know, if you want project approval for this, then it has to have so much local content. You have to do it really carefully because if you get the settings wrong, then you just end up with very, very expensive, um, renewable energy. And at the moment, especially wind is. Expensive, and I think it’s still getting more expensive in Australia. It has been since, basically since the pandemic. If you then said, we’ve gotta also make it in Australia, then you add a bunch more costs and we would just probably not have wind energy then, so, uh, or new, new wind energy. So there needs to be that balance. But I think that like, even though you can say, okay, cheapest is best, it is also not good to rely on. [00:18:00] Exclusively on other countries, and especially not on just one other country to give you all of your energy infrastructure. If it was up to me, I would be much more supporting the next wave of, um, technologies. I would really love to see, you know, a new Australian. Wind turbine blade manufacturing method. Like at some point in the next decade, we’re going to start getting, uh, advanced manufacturing is gonna make it into wind turbine blades. It’s already there in some of the other components.  Allen Hall: Wait, so you just said if we were gonna build a factory in Scotland, it would take about a year. Why would it take 10 years to do it in Australia? Australia’s a nice place to live.  Rosemary Barnes: No, I didn’t say that. It would, it would take teens. I said in, sometime in the next decade around the world, wind turbine blades are basically handmade, right? They, you know, there are some, um, machines that are helping people, but you know, you have a look at a picture of a wind turbine blade factor and there’s, you know, there’s 20 people walking over, walking over a blade, smoothing down glass. And at some point we’re gonna start using advanced manufacturing methods. I [00:19:00] mean, there are really advanced composite manufacturing methods. Um, you know, with, um, individual fiber placement and 3D printing with, um, continuous fibers. And that’s being used for like aerospace components a lot. It’s early days for that technology and there is no barrier to the technologies to being able to put them, you know, like say on a GaN gantry that just, you know, like ran down the length of a whole blade like that, that could be done. If it was economic, that’s the kind of technology that Australia should be supporting before that’s the mainstream, and everybody else has already done it, right? You need to find the next thing, and ideally not just one next thing, but several next things because you’re not gonna, you don’t know ahead of time, um, which is gonna be the winner. Allen Hall: That hasn’t been the tack that China has taken, that the latest technology in batteries is not something that China is producing today. They’re producing a generation prior, but they’re doing it at scale. At some point they, the Chinese just said, we’re stopping here and we’re gonna do this, this kind of [00:20:00] battery, and that’s it. And away we go. If we keep waiting until the next generation of blade techniques come out, I think we’re gonna be waiting forever.  Rosemary Barnes: I don’t think why I think. Do, you know, make the next generation of, of blade bio technologies?  Yolanda Padron: I think it makes sense for someplace like Australia, right? Because we, we’ve talked about the fact that like here, you, you have to consider a lot of factors in operation that you don’t have to consider in other places, especially for blades, right? So if you can eliminate all of those issues, for the most part that are happening in the factory at manufacturing, then that can really help boost. The next operational projects.  Allen Hall: So then what you’re saying is that. There are new technologies, but what stage are they at? Are they TRL two, TRL five, TRL seven. How close is this technology because I’d hate for Australia to miss out on this big opportunity.  Rosemary Barnes: Frown Hoffer has actually just published an article recently, uh, [00:21:00] about some, I can’t remember if it was fiber, um, tape placement or if it was printed, small wind turbine blades. Small wind is a nice, like, it’s a, a nice bite-sized kind of thing that you can master a lot quicker than you can, you know, you can make a thousand small wind turbines and learn a lot more than making 100 meter long blade. That would probably be bad because it’s your first one and you didn’t realize all of the downsides to the new technology yet. Um, so I, I think it is kind of promising, but. In terms of, yeah, like a major, like in terms of let’s say a hundred meter long blade that was made with 3D printing, that would be terra, L one. Like it’s an idea now. Nobody has actually made one or, um, done, done too much. Um, as far as I know. I think you could get, could get to nine over the next year. Like I said, like I think sometime in the next decade will be when that, when that comes.  Allen Hall: Okay. If you, you didn’t get to a nine that quickly. No, it is possible. Yeah. You gotta put some money into it.  Rosemary Barnes: If someone wants to give me, [00:22:00] you know, enough money, then I’ll make it. I’ll make it happen. I’ll, I would, I would absolutely be able to make that happen, but I don’t know when it’s gonna be cheap enough.  Allen Hall: I would just love to see it. If, if, if you’ve got a, if you’ve got a, a factory, you got squirreled away somewhere in the. Inland of Australia that is making blades at quantity or has the technology to do that. I would love to see it because that would be amazing.  Rosemary Barnes: Technologies don’t just fall out of the sky, you know, like they, you, you, you force them into existence. That’s what you, that’s what you do. You know what this comes down to? Have you ever done the, is it Myers-Briggs where you get the, like letters of your personality? You and I are in opposite corners inside some ways.  Allen Hall: That wraps up another episode of the Uptime Wind Energy Podcast. If today’s discussion sparked any questions or ideas, and it surely should, we’d love to hear from you. Reach out to us on LinkedIn, particularly Rosie, so it’s Rosemary Barnes on LinkedIn. Don’t forget to subscribe to who you never miss an episode. And if you found value in today’s conversation, please leave us a review. It really helps other wind [00:23:00] energy professionals discover the show. For Rosie and Yolanda, I am Alan Hall, and we’ll see here next week on the Uptime Wind Energy Podcast.

Der er pause i den danske regnskabssæson efter at børskæmper som Novo Nordisk, Mærsk, Vestas og Ørsted var aktuelle med friske tal i den forgange uge. Pausen giver anledning til analyse, og i dagens udgave af Millionærklubben udlægger analytiker Morten Larsen fra ABG Sundal Collier teksten på, hvor nogle af de danske selskaber står nu. Derudover vender dagens panel stemningen blandt investorerne, samler op på friske tal fra Bavarian Nordic og gårsdagens 'Kongetal'. Med i studiet er adm. direktør hos Pluto Markets Joakim Brüchmann, analytiker hos ABG Sundal Collier Morten Larsen og børsmægler Victor Fremming fra ABG Sundal Collier. Vært: Adam GeilSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Allen, Rosemary, and Yolanda, joined by Matthew Stead, discuss Vestas’ Q4 earnings beating competitors but disappointing investors, and the latest on the Wind Energy O&M Australia 2026 conference in Melbourne. Plus the European Commission opens a subsidy investigation into Goldwind, Texas sues over 3,000 dumped wind turbine blades, and Muehlhan Wind Service acquires Canadian AC883. Sign up now for Uptime Tech News, our weekly newsletter on all things wind technology. This episode is sponsored by Weather Guard Lightning Tech. Learn more about Weather Guard’s StrikeTape Wind Turbine LPS retrofit. Follow the show on YouTube, Linkedin and visit Weather Guard on the web. And subscribe to Rosemary’s “Engineering with Rosie” YouTube channel here. Have a question we can answer on the show? Email us! The Uptime Wind Energy Podcast brought to you by StrikeTape, protecting thousands of wind turbines from lightning damage worldwide. Visit strike tape.com. And now your hosts.  Allen Hall: Welcome to the Uptime Wind Energy Podcast. I’m your host Alan Hall, and I’m here with Rosemary Barnes, Yolanda Padron. Matthew Stead down in Australia. So welcome Matthew.  Matthew Stead: Great to be here. Thank you, Alan.  Allen Hall: We have a number of articles and interesting topics this week. Top of the list is Vestus. Vestus announced their Q4 numbers, and although the the revenue is great, uh, they, they had a profit of about 580 million euros. It was below what analysts expected, so the shares dropped about 6% on the news. But the CEO of Vestus is saying, uh, full speed ahead. They’re, they’re willing to make some concessions. Vestus, as it sounds like, in terms [00:01:00] of thinning out the company a little bit, which I, that’s been a, a, a complaint from investors for a little while. But in, in terms of, uh, going forward in renewable energy, Vestus is still going to pursue that. The offshore wind business looks like it’s gonna be profitable in 2027. And as we all know, and we, we see wind turbine prices, uh, quite a bit in each of our positions. Vestas is the most expensive one on the block, but they’re still winning a whole bunch of orders. And, and Matthew, uh, Vestas globally. I would say is the leader right now, if you look at Siemens GAA and GE Vestas is really winning a lot of the orders. Matthew Stead: Yeah, I think a very strong reputation for quality. Um, I have to say, I’ve got some Vestas turbines behind me, so, um, all paid for by myself. They’ve always been well regarded for their, um, you know, quality of [00:02:00] product. And when I first got into wind, um, you know, probably 15 years ago, you know, they were, they were the leaders at that point in time. And so, you know, quality. Reduces future o and m cost. I think  Rosemary Barnes: it’s not just about like the simple o and m, either it’s the risk that something really bad goes wrong and you’re just stuck with, you know, like a, a whole a hundred turbines that can’t be fixed or, you know, at least a large, a large chunk of them. The more that I work in, in o and m, the more you see, like on occasion when you do have those serial issues that mean, you know, like. Sometimes all the blades in the wind farm have to be replaced or sometimes all the generators or you know, even if it’s not replaced, if you’ve gotta take them all out and do something and put ’em back in, it is just such a massive cost. And, um, reducing the chance that that’s gonna happen is actually really valuable for insurance. And yeah, all sorts of other financial reasons.  Yolanda Padron: And even as an FSA customer, I feel like Vestus has a lot more transparency as to what actually is going on, [00:03:00] on site and more able to, to collaborate on, on like a site to site basis, which is very obviously helping them in getting a lot of return customers. Allen Hall: Yeah. One of the key revenues for Vestus has been the FSA, where almost every project I’ve seen over the last couple of years has had a 2030 year FSA attached to it. Rarely do you see. Order without that, and that’s a long-term revenue stream. The, the thing about Vestus and the complaints that are happening, uh, around vestus are odd because if you look at Siemens Cab Mesa, they’re really struggling to be profitable. And then GE Renova, which is really, really struggling to be profitable and they’re losing several hundred millions of dollars a year. Vestas is bringing in a profit, and, and yet the investors are wanting even more. I, I guess, is, is this just a relationship to the. Where you can invest money today. The stock market going up so high, gold and silver prices are at record highs. Rosemary Barnes: Haven’t they just [00:04:00] crushed?  Allen Hall: They have a little bit. They’ve, they’ve rescinded some, but they’re still at really high numbers, right? So Gold Cross, what? $5,000 and ounce and then, uh, it was it 2000 a year ago? So the, the rise in the value of, of, uh, rear metals is crazy. Is there a plan you think Vestas is changing the way they’re gonna operate? ’cause uh, they’re talking about thinning out the ranks and they do seem to be becoming more vertically integrated with the acquisition of the TPI factories down in Mexico. GPI in India  Rosemary Barnes: before we make it sound too much like a paid segment from investors, I have to say I disagree that they’re like just crushing it with the, the FSAs. I think that the full service agreements are across the board. Perform badly in Australia, at least I think it’s different elsewhere. Um, maybe it’s a good segue into, uh, talk about our event that we’ve got coming up to talk [00:05:00] about, um, the difficult operating conditions in Australia. But I, I think that best as, like everybody else has been surprised at how many things can go wrong in an Australia and wind farm. And, um, I don’t, I I would’ve put them up on a pedestal for. Particularly noteworthy, um, brilliant service with the FSAs. I think, yeah, across the board everyone’s doing a little bit less than they should be, and I have no doubt that they’re also making a whole lot less money on those agreements than what they spent or spending a lot more than what they’re expecting. So I don’t wanna be too harsh in my judgment.  Yolanda Padron: That’s fair. The bar is very low.  Rosemary Barnes: But what I do notice when I go to international events, um, and I, you know, I talk to, I’ve got a lot of ex-colleagues that’s still working in the industry and vest. Stands out as still investing a lot in r and d. And that doesn’t mean like crushing out a new platform every single year or every two years. It’s not that. But they are investing in a lot of new technologies that are more incremental. They’re [00:06:00] looking at bigger technology leaps and um, you know, still investigating stuff like that. Like I think if I was to go back working for an OEM, that’s the kind of work I’d like to do. And investors does seem like it’s the main company that’s still doing a whole lot of that. With the exception of, of the Chinese manufacturers, which are obviously doing like tons and tons of new development. But, um, I don’t have the insight into them like I do with the European ones.  Allen Hall: As you’re listening to this podcast, most of the people on this podcast are traveling to Melbourne, Australia for Woma 26. That’s Wind Energy and M Australia. Big event. Matthew, the numbers are impressive. I’m getting a little bit scared. Run out of food and uh, seats because there is a massive influx in the last 24, 48 hours, which is great to see, but wind energy in Australia. Is huge, and the o and m aspect is one of those key pain points. Matthew Stead: Yeah. I think, uh, thanks to Rosie and Alan, your argument, [00:07:00] um, a little while ago, your argument, which spurred the whole, um, the reason for the conference. Um, you know, the, the lack of, uh, Australian content, the lack of, um, poor. Conferences in Australia. I think unless you’d have that argument, um, this event wouldn’t, wouldn’t be there. Allen Hall: Rosie did bring up that she had been to a number of conferences and so had I that were pretty much useless in terms of take home. What could we be able to use in the world and, and make the world just slightly better from our knowledge and. With all the policy talk and uh, discussion about sort of global warming things that it’s not really useful necessarily in making your operations run more efficiently. And this was what Woma is all about is. Sharing information. Not everybody runs their operations the same. And you can learn from that of the way, uh, others do it. And at the same time, we’re bringing in experts from around the world to talk about some of [00:08:00] those really critical issues. One of them being leading edge erosion. And Rosie’s been doing a lot of work in Australia on leading edge erosion and the complexities around that. Rosie, the leading edge erosion discussion and the panel involved in the people are gonna be on the panel are impressive. What are you looking forward to?  Rosemary Barnes: I’m looking forward to, um, getting the international perspective because leading edge erosion, I mean, there’s heaps of aspects of wind turbine operation that I think are just dramatically different in Australia, but I think leading edge erosion is the one that like really, really jumped out at me. When I was, um, when I moved back to Australia and started looking at inspection reports for wind farms that were like one or two years old, and you see 90, 99% of turbines that have significant erosion like within a couple of years. It’s like, this is, this is not. Like, I’ve never, I’ve never seen this before. It’s clear that no one is designing these products that are gonna peel off [00:09:00] within a couple of years. Um, and so that was what kind of got me thinking, you know what, like Australia is really different. Climatically and in terms of the weather. Um, and so we need to start not just getting our information from overseas, but also relating it back to Australia. So I think that that’s what we’re trying really hard with the conference to do, is to like really ground it on Australian problems and solutions that have worked in Australia, but then draw on, you know, we don’t need to invent every single new product ourselves. Although there will also be. I, I’m very confident that, that we do need new products developed specifically for Australia. Um, but you know, there are a lot of things out there we can really accelerate how quickly we can solve our Australian problems if we know what’s worked overseas in, you know, different places and just get ideas about how things work. So I think that’s a really good mix of, of local and international. Matthew Stead: Yeah, as [00:10:00] we were talking before about, um, registrations, so we had. Definitely over 200 now. Um, and, um, I, I think we just need to warn people that we might need to cap it out. Um, so the venue’s told us two 50 maximum, so getting in quick  Allen Hall: and if you haven’t registered, you need to do so today. Go to WMA 2020 six.com. It’s very easy to do. It’s an inexpensive conference and full of great information. And the one thing you wanna register for also when you’re there is the free Lightning workshop. On the Monday, so this, it will be February 16th. It’s a lightning workshop in the afternoon, and then the, the full event begins Tuesday the 17th, and running through Wednesday the 18th. So you have two and a half full days of o and m. Knowledge sharing.  Matthew Stead: Don’t, don’t forget the workshops. There are two sessions of workshops with three, um, parallel sessions. And also don’t forget the chance to catch up with your buddies. So, uh, on the Monday [00:11:00] night, um, after the Lightning Masterclass, there’s, um, an event, you know, food and wine and drinks, et cetera. And then also on the, the Tuesday after the first day, there’s also a chance to catch up  Allen Hall: and you’ll go to Wilma 2026. Com and register. Now.  Speaker: Australia’s wind farms are growing fast, but are your operations keeping up? Join us February 17th and 18th at Melbourne’s Pullman on the park for Wind energy o and m Australia 2026, where you’ll connect with the experts solving real problems in maintenance asset management and OEM relations. Walk away with practical strategies to cut costs and boost uptime that you can use the moment you’re back on site. Register now at WM a 2020 six.com. Wind Energy o and m Australia is created by Wind professionals for wind professionals. Because this industry needs solutions, not speeches,  Allen Hall: the European Commission [00:12:00] has a message for Chinese wind turbine manufacturers. We are watching. Uh, Brussels just opened an in-depth investigation into Goldwind, that’s one of China’s biggest turbine makers. The concern is really straightforward. European regulators believe Goldwin may have received government subsidies that given it unfair advantage. Over European competitors such as Vestus and Siemens, GOMESA, Nordics, and others, grants preferential tax treatment and below market loans are all on the table. And if confirmed, the EU could impose corrective measures under its foreign subsidies regulation, which is a tool designed to keep the playing field level for everyone doing business in Europe. This has led to a number of heated exchanges in the press between China and the eu. China has, uh, said, Hey, eu, calm down. It’s not that big of a deal. We, and we don’t really do this. And if you wanna point [00:13:00] fingers, uh, the EU has given a lot of money and resources to the wind turbine operations in the eu. So it’s a, a, a bunch of back and forth, which is an odd thing at the moment because China is really trying to penetrate the EU market and the UK market for that matter, offshore in particular. Uh, Matthew, when you watch this go on and, and China obviously being the largest player in wind turbines, uh, there is some. Protection isn’t going into this. China has protected themselves from European manufactured turbines for the most part. Uh, it does seem like the EU has a leg to stand on and saying, Hey, if you’re gonna protect your borders, we’re gonna protect our borders. How does this end up? Does this end up with, uh, China making turbines or getting turbines shipped into EU or. There’s just gonna be a prohibition.  Matthew Stead: Uh, actually, I’m a little bit surprised that this hasn’t happened already. [00:14:00] I mean, there’s obviously plenty of European investigations and I’m a little bit surprised it didn’t happen earlier. Um, I, I guess my expectation is that, you know, this will be done and dusted and we can just move, move forward. Um, you know, my, my guesstimate is that it’ll be showing that, you know, this is all fine and, uh, yeah, just continue as per normal. Um, yep. Maybe, maybe critically. Um, I actually think a bit more competition in the industry is a good thing. Um, and so I think the whole, you know, global industry can, can, can benefit.  Allen Hall: And when we’re talking about, uh, the construction of wind farms in the eu, the Chinese manufacturers always come up because they tend to be somewhere between 30 and 40% less expensive than the European counterparts for basically the same turbine. What is the, the real linchpin there, because it does seem like operators and sted uh, evidently had a project going on where they’re looking at Chinese [00:15:00] turbines, but hasn’t made any decisions about it. There’s not a lot of history on the Chinese turbines. You can’t go back and pull, uh, o and m records. You can’t see reliability rates. You can’t see what their insurance rates have been. And Rosie, I think you’ve talked about this quite a bit. It does seem like the manufacturing capability in China is quite good, but then we see things on LinkedIn quite often. We’re uh, there has been some really massive failures there. How is the EU thinking about this? Is it really a competitive issue at this point, or is it a technology issue? What is the real. Uh, linchpin that it, it is, it everybody is trying to get at.  Rosemary Barnes: Yeah. Well I think Europe would be crazy to not support their wind industry because China is so big and has, um, you know, so many wind turbine manufacturers now that if Europe doesn’t specifically try to, you know, compete and survive, then I can [00:16:00] imagine no. non-Chinese manufacturers in 10 years time, um, or you know, at least 20, which I think would be a shame because there is a huge, long history of really good engineering, um, in Europe. Yes. Uh, every country supports their manufacturers. China do it in many, maybe most of their export industries. Everybody knows that. Chinese solar panels are subsidized most countries and regions, except that steel is heavily subsidized in, um, in China. And so there are in many countries restrictions on Chinese made wind turbine towers or tariffs on them. Because of that reason, it’s like pretty. It is pretty uncontroversial. Like it’s pretty obvious, right? That um, if you don’t fight, then um, you say, yeah, we’ll accept all these cheap products then, um, you know, because that’s beneficial for our economy to have them cheap. That’s like a short term thing. It’s [00:17:00] a lot easier in a country like Australia where we don’t have competing industries for many of these, um, many of these products, it’s a bit easier to say, yes, we would love cheap solar panels and cheap wind turbines and cheap electric vehicles and cheap batteries. But I mean, even Australia is trying to regain some of some of that, um, manufacturing capability.  Matthew Stead: But Rosie to, I guess Rosie to challenge you there. I mean, it won’t, it to improve the world’s, you know, position if we, you know, continue to drive prices down and drive a bit of innovation.  Rosemary Barnes: Yeah. If we drive prices down, but not if we drive, um, all competition out of business. And then you’re left with just one country that controls the supply chain for absolutely everything, which they’re already very largely. Do in terms of, you know, like, yeah, batteries, EVs, uh, solar panels, um, heaps of the raw materials, you know, like rare earths and a lot of other critical, um, critical [00:18:00] minerals. But I do think it’s a little bit different for Europe with wind because, um, if that, if that dies, it’s a big chunk of, um, just engineering knowledge that will just. Die with it. I would definitely, especially the countries like Denmark, where it is a, a significant industry for them, I have been a little bit surprised that they haven’t been supporting more the industry through some hard patches. But yeah, let’s, um. It’ll be an interesting next few years. Speaker 6: Delamination and bottomline failures and blades are difficult problems to detect early. These hidden issues can cost you millions in repairs and lost energy production. C-I-C-N-D-T are specialists to detect these critical flaws before they become expensive burdens. Their non-destructive test technology penetrates deep to blade materials to find voids [00:19:00] and cracks. Traditional inspections completely. Miss C-I-C-N-D-T Maps. Every critical defect delivers actionable reports and provides support to get your blades back in service. So visit cic ndt.com because catching blade problems early will save you millions. Allen Hall: Well, occasionally the wind industry has a recycling problem and down in Texas this has come to a head, uh, an Attorney General Ken Paxton. We as the Attorney General of Texas has sued global fiberglass solutions and affiliated companies for illegally dumping more than 3000 wind turbine blades in Sweetwater, Texas. Uh, the company was hired to break down and recycle the blades many years ago. Instead, it stockpiled them at two unpermitted disposal sites. The attorney General is seeking civil [00:20:00] penalties, complete removal of the waste and full cleanup costs paid to the state. And Yolanda, you have seen this facility, I’ve seen this facility down by Sweetwater. It is not a small site. It is massively large and has been there for a number of years. I, I guess there hasn’t been anybody willing to do it, and Global Fiberglass Solutions hasn’t stepped up to even start from what I understand. To take care of the problem. Is there a happy outcome of this? Does anybody else step into the, the fray and, and try to clean up these 3000 blades? Yolanda Padron: We were talking a little bit about this offline, but Rosie you mentioned there’s so many companies that can recycle in general, right? We know just in Texas, there’s a lot of smaller companies. That could take on at least part of, of what’s going on here. And I think, I mean, it’s, it’s something that is [00:21:00] affecting the people that are living there. It’s not just an eyesore. I mean, it’s just, I mean, nobody wants their home to be just this big dumping ground. It’s like a graveyard for blades. And it’s so sad to see that this is really affecting people and just their, how they view wind in the area because. Texas does really, really well with wind in general and that area gets a lot of money in. It’s very oftentimes rural areas that don’t get a lot of funding that are getting a lot of funding for schools are getting a lot of funding for hospitals are, are making sure that their roads are paved. Just in general, a lot of jobs are coming into town and it’s, it should be a really great win-win and it’s just really sad to know that it’s come to this point after years and years where it just, all of the pros are outweighed by a huge calm that is a [00:22:00] huge dumping site in the middle of people. General homes,  Rosemary Barnes: are they saying that it’s they’re storing the blades or did they just pretend that they recycled them and actually landfill them? What’s the Or? It’s unclear.  Allen Hall: They didn’t landfill them. I mean, in a sense, they didn’t bury them. They’re just sitting on the surface.  Yolanda Padron: Piled up.  Rosemary Barnes: I think a lot of this comes down to what, what does recycling mean? What’s your definition of it? Um, and it, depending on what your definition is, there absolutely are plenty of, um, companies, you know, like all over. And I’m sure that there are many more in Texas than there would be in, um, yeah, in the Australian regions I’ve looked at. But there’ll be companies that. Um, already a shredding waste of, from multiple sources and putting it into products like concrete for non-structural applications like, um, footpaths or sidewalks, stuff like that. Um, asphalt is another one. And then a little bit more high tech. You get, um, plastic products that [00:23:00] again, aren’t super duper structurally, um, demanding. So like, um. Decking materials or outdoor furniture, or even I saw one company who’s using recycled material in, um, rainwater tanks. I just really feel like any decent project manager could actually given enough money, like I’m, I’m not saying it’s an economic thing to do, like it’ll always be cheaper to landfill them, um, than to do something with them. But if you’ve been given money to recycle them enough money. Any decent project manager could make that happen?  Allen Hall: Well, just down the road is ever Point Services. And Rosemary, I don’t know if I’ve introduced you to ever Point Services, Tyler Goodell, Candace Woods, uh, they are recycling blades in a totally different way. They’re, they’re grinding them down, but they’re end use product is totally different than anything you have seen and all, although that is just getting ramped up from what I understand so far. The product they’re delivering has a [00:24:00] decent commercial value. It’s helping out in other industries. So it’s not just getting mixed with asphalt necessarily. Those 3000 turbine blades have value. They really do. And ever point, I think if they were involved, would turn them into something really useful. So there is the opportunity to recycle these blades by grinding them down in different, in different ways. But there are new markets. For this product and I’m, I’m just a little shocked that no one’s really stepped forward to say, Hey, I, I’ll take those blazes, but because it’s in a lawsuit, I assume that’s the problem. No wants to walk into there and say. Take responsibility for this thing that’s been hanging around for several years at this point.  Rosemary Barnes: I don’t know. I think I would disagree when, when you say those blades have value, I would be highly surprised if someone would just take them and make a profit from them. I would expect if I had 3000 blades in my backyard, I would expect to pay somebody to take them off my hands. Um. That should have been covered by the fee that they were paid for this [00:25:00] recycling, right? So if that money’s gone now, then there is gonna be a challenge in, um, doing something with it. Because I just want to you reiterate that like recycling is not the economic thing to do with wind turbine blades. Now it’s not even the best thing to do in terms of an energy or environmental or climate change, um, consideration. But if you are sure that you don’t want, um, to deal with the physicality of 3000 blades, um, then. You know, you and you’re prepared to pay to get rid of them, then there are definitely things that you can do.  Matthew Stead: Uh, I think this makes me like super angry because really if we look at it more from a social perspective, um, this is. These pictures are shown all over the world, and whenever I talk to someone and say, Hey, yeah, I’m in the wind industry, they say, oh yeah, what about all those blades in Yeah, and the, the stockpile, blah, blah, blah. So really this, this incident has really screwed up the whole global industry. So it may have destroyed parts of Texas, but it’s also destroyed part of [00:26:00] the global industry. Rosemary Barnes: I agree and it’s, it’s crazy because wind turbine blade waste is five to 10% of global composite waste. So the boats and cars and airplanes, um, and other composites are. They’re not piled up in a recognizable form. And so nobody is absolutely outraged that people are, you know, um, disposing of fiberglass boats every year. Um, so yeah, I mean, that, that, that es me too. I have, um, I’ve spent a long time being annoyed about that fact, and I’ve kind of come around to the, the fact that universally people absolutely hate. Wind turbine blades to be wasted and it just needs to be solved. For that reason, it’s not, it doesn’t need to be solved because of the economics. It doesn’t need to be solved because of the environment. It doesn’t need to be solved because of climate change, but it does really need to be solved because of the social perception.  Allen Hall: Well, as North American Wind Farms age, the companies that keep them running. Keep getting bigger. [00:27:00] And Mohan Wind Service, which if you haven’t worked with them, is a Danish turbine service provider. Uh, and they’ve acquired the operating assets of Canada based AC 8 83. And our friends at AC 8 83 have been evidently working behind the scenes to make that deal go through, which is. Awesome. Actually, uh, the deal gives Mulan a local platform for blade repair and turbine services across Canada and the United States, uh, with more than three. Thousand certified technicians in over 35 countries. Muhan says it is confident the long-term growth in North American market will, uh, continue to prosper. So Muhan come in and saying to AC 83 and others, uh, that they’re, uh, gonna be a, a real powerhouse in terms of a service provider in Canada and the United States and acquiring AC 83 is, is one of the good moves. And we know Lars Benson, [00:28:00] who’s run that business, and Yannick Benson who operates that business today. This is a big deal for both of them and the company.  Matthew Stead: Yeah, I mean, uh, Lars is a great guy and I, I think this is wonderful that you get more economies of scale by, you know, these companies growing and it has to be, has to be great for the industry. O obviously, you know, it’s a good thing for, for Lars and, um, Yanick. Um, but yeah. Yeah. Good on them for, for doing this. And you, we need more companies that are larger and able to operate across different industries. I know the seasonality might, might play into it. I don’t know. Maybe not. Um, but, and the more that companies can work across different regions, the better. Allen Hall: Well, it just gives a C 83 a lot of operating power. So as a sort of a small, medium sized business, that’s one of the problems that you try to scale is just a lot of detail. Human resources, all the legal aspects, and. Uh, international travel people coming back and forth all the time. It is just a lot to operate. Muhan gives them all that infrastructure support. So, [00:29:00] uh, the brain powers that lie at AC 8 83 to do great work can do that work. And they have the muhan to come underneath and provide the support and the, the financial stability. Matthew, as you point out, the season is pretty short up in Canada, uh, to make this thing go. So this is really great news and we’re, I think we’re gonna see more. Of this type of structure happen where the companies that have grown and have shown value to the wind industry, regardless of where they’re located at, are gonna become prized possessions and, and larger companies are gonna want to come in and, and acquire them to expand their portfolio at the same time. And there’s value there. I, I think a lot of ISPs around the world have shown themselves to be profitable, even in some really tough economic times. Uh, they’ve had. Done a good job. And it does seem like the industry is rewarding. Those companies that have put the effort in and have shown themselves to be the professionals that AC 83 is. So this, [00:30:00] this is a really great development. And do we see this happening, uh, through 26 and 27? Because I think, I think that’s where the industry’s headed. But I talk to a lot of my counterparts who say, oh, there is no. Everything’s gloomy and doomy, and none of this is gonna happen, and these companies are gonna just fade away. Where do you think this is headed at Matthew?  Matthew Stead: I think, um, we, we’ve done a little bit of work and we’ve been looking at the industry and I think, uh, if you compare it to, you know, construction or, you know, automotive or whatever, I, I think the, there is a, a strong opportunity for the industry to have some consolidation amongst companies. So I think, um, you know, the industry is still a bit of a baby. You know, maybe whatever, 30 years there is still opportunity, um, for consolidation. You know, much like a few of the other more mature industries, like I said. Um, so I, I, I think there’ll be more of this, um, going on the next few years.  Allen Hall: That wraps up another episode of the Uptime Wind Energy Podcast. If today’s [00:31:00] discussion sparked any questions or ideas. We’d love to hear from you. Reach out to us on LinkedIn and don’t forget to subscribe so you never miss an episode. And if you found value in today’s conversation, please leave us a review. It really helps other wind energy professionals discover the show for Rosie, Yolanda and Matthew. I’m Alan Hall, and we’ll see you here next week on the Uptime Wind Energy Podcast.

Allen covers Vestas CEO Henrik Andersen’s optimism on European auction reforms and bilateral CfDs, Australia’s Warradarge wind farm expansion paired with major grid upgrades, New Zealand’s wind-to-hydrogen project, South Korea’s Hanwha Ocean building a new installation vessel, and Siemens Energy’s debate over spinning off Gamesa. Sign up now for Uptime Tech News, our weekly newsletter on all things wind technology. This episode is sponsored by Weather Guard Lightning Tech. Learn more about Weather Guard’s StrikeTape Wind Turbine LPS retrofit. Follow the show on YouTube, Linkedin and visit Weather Guard on the web. And subscribe to Rosemary’s “Engineering with Rosie” YouTube channel here. Have a question we can answer on the show? Email us! Happy Monday everyone Henrik Andersen has seen a lot of failed auctions. The Vestas chief executive watched subsidy-free tenders collapse in Germany… France… the Netherlands… even his home country of Denmark. Developers wouldn’t bid. The risk was too high. But this week… Andersen stood before investors with different news. The UK’s AR7 delivered eight point four gigawatts. A record. Eight projects approved… including two floaters. Denmark and eight North Sea nations committed to one hundred gigawatts. And Germany’s onshore auction pipeline… is finally moving. Andersen sent thanks directly to Ed Miliband… Britain’s Energy Minister. “Now it’s starting to work.” … The difference? Bilateral CfDs. After watching zero-subsidy models fail across Europe… governments returned to revenue stabilization. Strike prices developers can actually finance. Andersen believes the industry should learn from these auction designs… before repeating old mistakes. Steen Brødbæk at Semco Maritime agrees. Projects are maturing. Suppliers… can finally earn a living. … Vestas identified three priority markets in their annual report. Germany for onshore. North America. And Australia. The drivers? Energy security concerns. Data center load growth. And the AI electricity surge that every grid operator is scrambling to model. As for Chinese OEMs entering European tenders? Andersen would be surprised. “You should never be surprised by anything these days,” he said. “But in this case… I would actually be surprised.” … Down in Western Australia… Warradarge is proving his point about mature markets. Four of thirty additional turbines are now vertical. When the expansion completes… eighty-one machines will generate two hundred eighty-three megawatts. The state’s largest wind farm. Owned by Bright Energy Investments… a joint venture between Synergy and Potentia. One hundred twenty workers at peak construction. And critically… the state is building transmission to match. Clean Energy Link North… the largest grid upgrade in Western Australia in more than a decade… will unlock capacity in the South West Interconnected System. Generation AND grid… moving together. That’s how you hit a 2030 coal exit. … Meanwhile in Taranaki… New Zealand… Vestas secured a twenty-six megawatt order with a twenty-year service agreement. Hiringa Energy is integrating wind with green hydrogen production at scale… serving transport… industry… and agriculture. Turbine delivery begins Q1 this year. Commissioning… Q2 twenty-twenty-seven. One of New Zealand’s first large-scale wind-to-hydrogen projects. The electrolyzer economics are finally penciling. … But you can’t install offshore turbines without vessels. And South Korea just solved a bottleneck. Hanwha Ocean won a three hundred eighty-five million pound contract… to build a WTIV capable of fifteen-megawatt class installations. Korea’s first vessel at that scale. Delivery… early twenty-twenty-eight. Korea expects twenty-five gigawatts of offshore capacity by 2035. They’re not waiting for European vessel contractors. They’re building their own supply chain. Hanwha has now delivered four WTIVs globally. … Not everyone is celebrating. At Siemens Energy… activist investor Ananym Capital is pushing to spin off Siemens Gamesa. CEO Christian Bruch calls the idea reasonable. But timing matters. The wind division must stabilize first. Bruch believes offshore wind can follow the same recovery path as the grid business… which went from crisis… to profitability. Turnaround before transaction. … So, last week we had: CfDs reviving European auctions. Australia building generation AND transmission together. New Zealand coupling wind with hydrogen. Korea investing in installation vessel capacity. And Siemens… working to fix its turbine business before any restructuring. Different geographies. Same lesson. The projects that succeed… are the ones where policy… supply chain… and capital… finally align. … And that is the state of the wind industry for the 9th of February 2026. Join us tomorrow for the Uptime wind energy podcast.

Antonio Aspas, socio de Buy & Hold Gestión de Activos, repasa lo más destacado en Europa: BNP Paribas, Volvo, Vodafone, Shell, Vestas, Maersk y Pandora.

In der heutigen Folge sprechen die Finanzjournalisten Nando Sommerfeldt und Holger Zschäpitz über Ekstase bei den Edelmetallen, schwächelnde Geburtstagskinder und die Nordsee-Pakt-Profiteure. Außerdem geht es um Newmont, USA Rare Earth, Nvidia, Coreweave, Cloudflare, Orsted, Vestas, Intel, United Health, Friedrich Vorwerk, Opendoor, Rocketlab, Intuitive Machines, GameStop, Microsoft, Meta, Tesla, Apple, ASML, SAP, ServiceNow, OHB, Airbus und hier geht's zum wöchentlichen AAA-Newsletter: https://www.businessinsider.de/informationen/newsletter/alles-auf-aktien/ Wir freuen uns an Feedback über aaa@welt.de. Noch mehr "Alles auf Aktien" findet Ihr bei WELTplus und Apple Podcasts – inklusive aller Artikel der Hosts und AAA-Newsletter. Hier bei WELT: https://www.welt.de/podcasts/alles-auf-aktien/plus247399208/Boersen-Podcast-AAA-Bonus-Folgen-Jede-Woche-noch-mehr-Antworten-auf-Eure-Boersen-Fragen.html. Der Börsen-Podcast Disclaimer: Die im Podcast besprochenen Aktien und Fonds stellen keine spezifischen Kauf- oder Anlage-Empfehlungen dar. Die Moderatoren und der Verlag haften nicht für etwaige Verluste, die aufgrund der Umsetzung der Gedanken oder Ideen entstehen. Hörtipps: Für alle, die noch mehr wissen wollen: Holger Zschäpitz können Sie jede Woche im Finanz- und Wirtschaftspodcast "Deffner&Zschäpitz" hören. +++ Werbung +++ Du möchtest mehr über unsere Werbepartner erfahren? Hier findest du alle Infos & Rabatte! https://linktr.ee/alles_auf_aktien Impressum: https://www.welt.de/services/article7893735/Impressum.html Datenschutz: https://www.welt.de/services/article157550705/Datenschutzerklaerung-WELT-DIGITAL.html

Allen, Joel, and Yolanda discuss Siemens Energy’s decision to keep their wind business despite pressure from hedge funds, with the CEO projecting profitability by 2026. They cover the company’s 21 megawatt offshore turbine now in testing and why it could be a game changer. Plus, Danish startup Quali Drone demonstrates thermal imaging of spinning blades at an offshore wind farm, and Alliant Energy moves forward with a 270 MW wind project in Wisconsin using next-generation Nordex turbines. Sign up now for Uptime Tech News, our weekly newsletter on all things wind technology. This episode is sponsored by Weather Guard Lightning Tech. Learn more about Weather Guard’s StrikeTape Wind Turbine LPS retrofit. Follow the show on YouTube, Linkedin and visit Weather Guard on the web. And subscribe to Rosemary’s “Engineering with Rosie” YouTube channel here. Have a question we can answer on the show? Email us! The Uptime Wind Energy Podcast brought to you by Strike Tape, protecting thousands of wind turbines from lightning damage worldwide. Visit strike tape.com. And now your hosts, Alan Hall, Rosemary Barnes, Joel Saxon, and Yolanda Padron. Welcome to the  Allen Hall: Uptime Wind Energy Podcast. I’m your host, Alan Hall. I’m here with Yolanda Padron and Joel Saxon. Rosemary Burns is climbing the Himalayas this week, and our top story is Semen’s Energy is rejecting the sail of their wind business, which is a very interesting take because obviously Siemens CESA has struggled. Recently due to some quality issues a couple of years ago, and, and back in 2024 to 25, that fiscal year, they lost a little over 1 billion euros. But the CEO of Siemens energy says they’re gonna stick with the business and that they’re getting a lot of pressure, obviously, from hedge funds to do something with that business to, to raise the [00:01:00] valuations of Siemens energy. But, uh, the CEO is saying, uh, that. They’re not gonna spin it off and that would not solve any of the problems. And they’re, they’re going to, uh, remain with the technology, uh, for the time being. And they think right now that Siemens Gomesa will be profitable in 2026. That’s an interesting take, uh, Joel, because we haven’t seen a lot of sales onshore or offshore from Siemens lately.  Joel Saxum: I think they’re crazy to lose. I don’t wanna put this in US dollars ’cause it resonates with my mind more, but 1.36 billion euros is probably what, 1.8 million or 1.8. Billion dollars.  Allen Hall: Yeah. It’s, it’s about that. Yeah.  Joel Saxum: Yeah. So, so it’s compounding issues. We see this with a lot of the OEMs and blade manufacturers and stuff, right? They, they didn’t do any sales of their four x five x platform for like a year while they’re trying to reset the issues they had there. And now we know that they’re in the midst of some blade issues where they’re swapping blades at certain wind farms and those kind of things.[00:02:00] But when they went to basically say, Hey, we’re back in the market, restarting, uh, sales. Yolanda, have you heard from any of your blade network of people buying those turbines?  Yolanda Padron: No, and I think, I mean, we’ve seen with other OEMs when they try to go back into getting more sales, they focus a lot on making their current customers happy, and I’m not sure that I’ve seen that with the, this group. So it’s, it’s just a little bit of lose lose on both sides.  Joel Saxum: Yeah. And if you’re, if you’re trying to, if you’re having to go back and basically patch up relationships to make them happy. Uh, that four x five x was quite the flop, uh, I would say, uh, with the issues that it had. So, um, there’s, that’d be a lot of, a lot of, a lot of nice dinners and a lot of hand kissing and, and all kinds of stuff to make those relationships back to what they were. Allen Hall: But at the time, Joel, that turbine fit a specific set of the marketplace, they had basically complete control of that when the four x five [00:03:00] x. Was an option and and early on it did seem to have pretty wide adoption. They were making good progress and then the quality issues popped up. What have we seen since and more recently in terms of. The way that, uh, Siemens Ga Mesa has restructured their business. What have we heard?  Joel Saxum: Well, they, they leaned more and pointed more towards offshore, right? They wanted to be healthy in, they had offshore realm and make sales there. Um, and that portion, because it was a completely different turbine model, that portion went, went along well, but in the meantime, right, they fit that four x five x and when I say four x five x, of course, I mean four megawatt, five megawatt slot, right? And if you look at, uh, the models that are out there for the onshore side of things. That, that’s kind of how they all fit. There was like, you know, GE was in that two x and, and, uh, uh, you know, mid two X range investors had the two point ohs, and there’s more turbine models coming into that space. And in the US when you go above basically 500 foot [00:04:00] above ground level, right? So if your elevation is a thousand, once you hit 1500 for tip height on a turbine, you get into the next category of FAA, uh, airplane problems. So if you’re going to put in a. If you were gonna put in a four x or five x machine and you’re gonna have to deal with those problems anyways, why not put a five and a half, a six, a 6.8, which we’ve been seeing, right? So the GE Cypress at 6.8, um, we’re hearing of um, not necessarily the United States, but envision putting in some seven, uh, plus megawatt machines out there on shore. So I think that people are making the leap past. Two x three x, and they’re saying like, oh, we could do a four x or five x, but if we’re gonna do that, why don’t we just put a six x in? Allen Hall: Well, Siemens has set itself apart now with a 21 megawatt, uh, offshore turbine, which is in trials at the moment. That could be a real game changer, particularly because the amount of offshore wind that’ll happen around Europe. Does that then if you’re looking at the [00:05:00] order book for Siemens, when you saw a 21 Mega Hut turbine, that’s a lot of euros per turbine. Somebody’s projecting within Siemens, uh, that they’re gonna break even in 2026. I think the way that they do that, it has to be some really nice offshore sales. Isn’t that the pathway?  Joel Saxum: Yeah. You look at the megawatt class and what happened there, right? So what was it two years ago? Vestas? Chief said, we are not building anything past the 15 megawatt right now. So they have their, their V 2 36 15 megawatt dark drive model that they’re selling into the market, that they’re kind of like, this is the cap, like we’re working on this one now we’re gonna get this right. Which to be honest with you, that’s an approach that I like. Um, and then you have the ge So in this market, right, the, the big megawatt offshore ones for the Western OEMs, you have the GE 15 megawatt, Hayley IX, and GE. ISS not selling more of those right now. So you have Vestas sitting at 15, GE at 15, but not doing anymore. [00:06:00] And GE was looking at developing an 18, but they have recently said we are not doing the 18 anymore. So now from western OEMs, the only big dog offshore turbine there is, is a 21. And again, if you were now that now this is working out opposite inverse in their favor, if you were going to put a 15 in, it’s not that much of a stretch engineering wise to put a 21 in right When it comes to. The geotechnical investigations and how we need to make the foundations and the shipping and the this and the, that, 15 to 21, not that big of a deal, but 21 makes you that much, uh, more attractive, uh, offshore.  Allen Hall: Sure if fewer cables, fewer mono piles, everything gets a little bit simpler. Maybe that’s where Siemens sees the future. That would, to me, is the only slot where Siemens can really gain ground quickly. Onshore is still gonna be a battle. It always is. Offshore is a little more, uh, difficult space, obviously, just because it’s really [00:07:00] Chinese turbines offshore, big Chinese turbines, 25 plus megawatt is what we’re talking about coming outta China or something. European, 21 megawatt from Siemens.  Joel Saxum: Do the math right? That, uh, if, if you have, if you have won an offshore auction and you need to backfill into a megawatts or gigawatts of. Of demand for every three turbines that you would build at 15 or every four turbines you build at 15, you only need three at 21. Right? And you’re still a little bit above capacity. So the big, one of the big cost drivers we know offshore is cables. You hit it on the head when you’re like, cables, cables, cables, inter array cables are freaking expensive. They’re not only expensive to build and lay, they’re expensive to ensure, they’re expensive to maintain. There’s a lot of things here, so. When you talk about saving costs offshore, if you look at any of those cool models in the startup companies that are optimizing layouts and all these great things, a lot of [00:08:00] them are focusing on reducing cables because that’s a big, huge cost saver. Um, I, I think that’s, I mean, if I was building one and, and had the option right now, that’s where I would stare at offshore. Allen Hall: Does anybody know when that Siemens 21 megawatt machine, which is being evaluated at a test site right now, when that will wrap up testing, is it gonna be in the next couple of months?  Joel Saxum: I think it’s at Estro.  Allen Hall: Yeah, it is, but I don’t remember when it was started. It was sometime during the fall of last year, so it’s probably been operational three, four months at this point. Something like that.  Joel Saxum: If you trust Google, it says full commercial availability towards the end, uh, of 28.  Allen Hall: 28. Do you think that the, uh, that Siemens internally is trying to push that to the left on the schedule, bringing from 2028 back into maybe early 27? Remember, AR seven, uh, for the uk the auction round?[00:09:00] Just happened, and that’s 8.4 gigawatts of offshore wind. You think Siemens is gonna make a big push to get into that, uh, into the water there for, for that auction, which is mostly RWE.  Joel Saxum: Yeah, so the prototype’s been installed for, since April 2nd, 2025. So it’s only been in there in the, and it’s only been flying for eight months. Um, but yeah, I mean, RWE being a big German company, Siemens, ESA being a big German company. Uh, of course you would think they would want to go to the hometown and and get it out there, but will it be ready? I don’t know. I don’t know. I, I personally don’t know. And there’s probably people that are listening right now that do have this information. If this turbine model has been specked in any of the pre-feed documentation or preferred turbine suppliers, I, I don’t know. Um, of course we, I’m sure someone does. It’s listening. Uh, reach out, shoot us at LinkedIn or something like that. Let us know, but. Uh, yeah, I mean, uh, [00:10:00] Yolanda, so, so from a Blades perspective, of course you’re our local, one of our local blade experts here. It’s difficult to work, it’s gonna be difficult to work on these blades. It’s a 276 meter rotor, right? So it’s 135 meter blade. Is it worth it to go to that and install less of them than work on something a little bit smaller?  Yolanda Padron: I think it’s a, it’s a personal preference. I like the idea of having something that’s been done. So if it’s something that I know or something that I, I know someone who’s worked with them, so there’s at least a colleague or something that I, I know that if there’s something off happening with the blade, I can talk to someone about it. Right? We can validate data with each other because love the OEMs, but they’re very, it’s very typical that they’ll say that anything is, you know. Anything is, is not a serial defect and anything is force majeure and wow, this is the first time I’m seeing this in your [00:11:00] blade. Uh, so if it’s a new technology versus old technology, I’d rather have the old one just so I, I at least know what I’m dealing with. Uh, so I guess that answers the question as far as like these new experimental lights, right? As far as. Whether I would rather have less blades to deal with. Yes, I’d rather have less bilities to, to deal with it. They were all, you know, known technologies and one was just larger than the other one.  Joel Saxum: Maybe it boils down to a CapEx question, right? So dollar per megawatt. What’s gonna be the cost of these things be? Because we know right now could, yeah, kudos to Siemens CESA for actually putting this turbine out at atrial, or, I can’t remember if it’s Australia or if it’s Keyside somewhere. We know that the test blades are serial number 0 0 0 1 and zero two. Right. And we also know that when there’s a prototype blade being built, all of the, well, not all, but you know, the majority of the engineers that [00:12:00] have designed it are more than likely gonna be at the factory. Like there’s gonna be heavy control on QA, QEC, like that. Those blades are gonna be built probably the best that you can build them to the design spec, right? They’re not big time serial production, yada, yada, yada. When this thing sits and cooks for a year, two years, and depending on what kind of blade issues we may see out of it, that comes with a caveat, right? And that caveat being that that is basically prototype blade production and it has a lot of QC QA QC methodologies to it. And when we get to the point where now we’re taking that and going to serial blade production. That brings in some difficulties, or not difficulties, but like different qa, qc methodologies, um, and control over the end product. So I like to see that they’re get letting this thing cook. I know GE did that with their, their new quote unquote workhorse, 6.8 cypress or whatever it is. That’s fantastic. Um, but knowing that these are prototype [00:13:00] machines, when we get into serial production. It kind of rears its head, right? You don’t know what issues might pop up. Speaker 5: Australia’s wind farms are growing fast, but are your operations keeping up? Join us February 17th and 18th at Melbourne’s Pullman on the park for Wind energy ONM Australia 2026, where you’ll connect with the experts solving real problems in maintenance asset management and OEM relations. Walk away with practical strategies to cut costs and boost uptime that you can use the moment you’re back on site. Register now at WM a 2020 six.com. Wind Energy o and m Australia is created by wind professionals for wind professionals because this industry needs solutions, not speeches.  Allen Hall: While conventional blade inspections requires shutting down the turbine. And that costs money. Danish Startup, Qualy Drone has demonstrated a different approach [00:14:00] at the. Ruan to Wind Farm in Danish waters. Working with RDBE, stack Craft Total Energies and DTU. The company flew a drone equipped with thermal cameras and artificial intelligence to inspect blades while they were still spinning. Uh, this is a pretty revolutionary concept being put into action right now ’cause I think everybody has talked about. Wouldn’t it be nice if we could keep the turbines running and, and get blade inspections done? Well, it looks like quality drone has done it. Uh, the system identifies surface defects and potential internal damage in real time and without any fiscal contact, of course, and without interrupting power generations. So as the technology is described, the drone just sits there. Steady as the blades rotate around. Uh, the technology comes from the Aquatic GO Project, uh, funded by Denmark’s, EUDP program. RDBE has [00:15:00] confirmed plans to expand use of the technology and quality. Drone says it has commercial solutions ready for the market. Now we have all have questions about this. I think Joel, the first time I heard about this was probably a year and a half ago, two years ago in Amsterdam at one of the Blade conferences. And I said at the time, no way, but they, they do have a, a lot of data that’s available online. I, I’ve downloaded it and it’s being the engineer and looked at some of the videos and images they have produced. They from what is available and what I saw, there’s a couple of turbines at DTU, some smaller turbines. Have you ever been to Rust, Gilda and been to DTU? They have a couple of turbines on site, so what it looked like they were using one of these smaller turbines, megawatt or maybe smaller turbine. Uh, to do this, uh, trial on, but they had thermal movie images and standard, you know, video images from a drone. They were using [00:16:00] DGI and Maverick drones. Uh, pretty standard stuff, but I think the key comes in and the artificial intelligence bit. As you sit there and watch these blades go around, you gotta figure out where you are and what blades you’re looking at and try to splice these images together that I guess, conceptually would work. But there’s a lot of. Hurdles here still, right?  Joel Saxum: Yeah. You have to go, go back from data analysis and data capture and all this stuff just to the basics of the sensor technology. You immediately will run into some sensor problems. Sensor problems being, if you’re trying to capture an image or video with RGB as a turbine is moving. There’s just like you, you want to have bright light, a huge sensor to be able to capture things with super fast shutter speed. And you need a global shutter versus a rolling shutter to avoid some more of that motion blur. So there’s like, you start stepping up big time in the cost of the sensors and you have to have a really good RGB camera. And then you go to thermal. So now thermal to have to capture good [00:17:00]quality thermal images of a wind turbine blade, you need backwards conditions than that. You need cloudy day. You don’t want to have shine sheen bright sunlight because you’re changing the heat signature of the blade. You are getting, uh, reflectance, reflectance messes with thermal imagery, imaging sensors. So the ideal conditions are if you can get out there first thing in the morning when the sun is just coming up, but the sun’s kind of covered by clouds, um, that’s where you want to be. But then you say you take a pic or image and you do this of the front side of the blade, and then you go down to the backside. Now you have different conditions because there’s, it’s been. Shaded there, but the reason that you need to have the turbine in motion to have thermal data make sense is you need the friction, right? So you need a crack to sit there and kind of vibrate amongst itself and create a localized heat signature. Otherwise, the thermal [00:18:00] imagery doesn’t. Give you what you want unless you’re under the perfect conditions. Or you might be able to see, you know, like balsa core versus foam core versus a different resin layup and those kind of things that absorb heat at different rates. So you, you, you really need some specialist specialist knowledge to be able to assess this data as well. Allen Hall: Well, Yolanda, from the asset management side, how much money would you generate by keeping the turbines running versus turning them off for a standard? Drone inspection. What does that cost look like for a, an American wind farm, a hundred turbines, something like that. What is that costing in terms of power? Yolanda Padron: I mean, these turbines are small, right? So it’s not a lot to just turn it off for a second and, and be able to inspect it, right? Especially if you’re getting high quality images. I think my issues, a lot of this, this sounds like a really great project. It’s just. A lot of the current drone [00:19:00] inspections, you have them go through an AI filter, but you still, to be able to get a good quality analysis, you have to get a person to go through it. Right. And I think there’s a lot more people in the industry, and correct me if I’m wrong, that have been trained and can look through an external drone inspection and just look at the images and say, okay, this is what this is Then. People who are trained to look at the thermal imaging pictures and say, okay, this is a crack, or this is, you know, you have lightning damage or this broke right there. Uh, so you’d have to get a lot more specialized people to be able to do that. You can’t just, I mean, I wouldn’t trust AI right now to to be the sole. Thing going through that data. So you also have to get some sort of drone inspection, external drone inspection to be able to, [00:20:00] to quantify what exactly is real and what’s not. And then, you know, Joel, you alluded to it earlier, but you don’t have high quality images right now. Right? Because you have to do the thermal sensing. So if you’re. If you’re, if you don’t have the high quality images that you need to be able to go back, if, if, if you have an issue to send a team or to talk to your OE em or something, you, you’re missing out on a lot of information, so, so I think maybe it would be a good, right now as it stands, it would be a good, it, it’d be complimentary to doing the external drone inspections. I don’t think that they could fully replace them. Now.  Joel Saxum: Yeah, I think like going to your AI comment like that makes absolute sense because I mean, we’ve been doing external drone inspections for what, since 2016 and Yeah. And, and implementing AI and think about the data sets that, that [00:21:00] AI is trained on and it still makes mistakes regularly and it doesn’t matter, you know, like what provider you use. All of those things need a human in the loop. So think about the, the what exists for the data set of thermal imagery of blades. There isn’t one. And then you still have to have the therm, the human in the loop. And when we talk to like our, our buddy Jeremy Hanks over at C-I-C-N-D-T, when you start getting into NDT specialists, because that’s what this is, is a form of NDT thermal is when you start getting into specialist, specialist, specialist, specialist, they become more expensive, more specialized. It’s harder to do. Like, I just don’t think, and if you do the math on this, it’s like. They did this project for two years and spent 2 million US dollars per year for like 4 million US dollars total. I don’t think that’s the best use of $4 million right now. Wind,  Allen Hall: it’s a drop in the bucket. I think in terms of what the spend is over in Europe to make technologies better. Offshore wind is the first thought because it is expensive to turn off a 15 or 20 megawatt turbine. You don’t want to do that [00:22:00] and be, because there’s fewer turbines when you turn one off, it does matter all of a sudden in, in terms of the grid, uh, stability, you would think so you, you just a loss of revenue too. You don’t want to shut that thing down. But I go, I go back. To what I remember from a year and a half ago, two years ago, about the thermal imaging and, and seeing some things early on. Yeah, it can kind of see inside the blade, which is interesting to me. The one thing I thought was really more valuable was you could actually see turbulence on the blade. You can get a sense of how the blade is performing because you can in certain, uh, aspect angles and certain temp, certain temperature ranges. You can see where friction builds up via turbulence, and you can see where you have problems on the blade. But I, I, I think as we were learning about. Blade problems, aerodynamic problems, your losses are going to be in the realm of a percent, maybe 2%. So do you even care at that point? It, it must just come down then to being able to [00:23:00] keep a 15 megawatt turbine running. Okay, great. Uh, but I still think they’re gonna have some issues with the technology. But back to your point, Joel, the camera has to be either super, uh, sensitive. With high shutter speeds and the, and the right kind of light, because the tiff speeds are so high on a tiff speed on an offshore turbine, what a V 2 36 is like 103 meters per second. That’s about two hundred and twenty two hundred thirty miles per hour. You’re talking about a race car and trying to capture that requires a lot of camera power. I’m interested about what Quality Drone is doing. I went to that website. There’s not a lot of information there yet. Hopefully there will be a lot more because if the technology proves out, if they can actually pull this off where the turbines are running. Uh, I don’t know if to stop ’em. I think they have a lot of customers [00:24:00]offshore immediately, but also onshore. Yeah, onshore. I think it’s, it’s doable  Joel Saxum: just because you can. I’m gonna play devil’s advocate on this one because on the commercial side, because it took forever for us to even get. Like it took 3, 4, 5, 6 years for us to get to the point where you’re having a hundred percent coverage of autonomous drones. And that was only because they only need to shut a turbine down for 20 minutes now. Right. The speed’s up way up. Yeah. And, and now we’re, we’re trying to get internals and a lot of people won’t even do internals. I’ve been to turbines where the hatches haven’t been open on the blades since installation, and they’re 13 years, 14 years old. Right. So trying to get people just to do freaking internals is difficult. And then if they do, they’re like, ah, 10% of the fleet. You know, you have very rare, or you know, a or an identified serial of defect where people actually do internal inspections regularly. Um, and then, so, and, and if you talk about advanced inspection techniques, advanced inspection techniques are great for specific problems. That’s the only thing they’re being [00:25:00] accepted for right now. Like NDT on route bushing pullouts, right? They, that’s the only way that you can really get into those and understand them. So specific specialty inspection techniques are being used in certain ways, but it’s very, very, very limited. Um, and talk to anybody that does NDT around the wind industry and they’ll tell you that. So this to me, being a, another kind of niche inspection technology that I don’t know if it’s has the quality that it is need to. To dismount the incumbent, I guess is what I’m trying to say. Allen Hall: Delamination and bond line failures and blades are difficult problems to detect early. These hidden issues can cost you millions in repairs and lost energy production. C-I-C-N-D-T are specialists to detect these critical flaws before they become a. Expensive burdens. Their non-destructive test technology penetrates deep to blade materials to find voids and cracks. Traditional inspections [00:26:00] completely. Miss C-I-C-N-D-T Maps. Every critical defect delivers actionable reports and provides support to get your blades back in service. So visit cic ndt.com because catching blade problems early will save you millions. After five years of development, Alliant Energy is ready to build one of Wisconsin’s largest wind farms. The Columbia Wind Project in Columbia County would put more than 40 turbines across rural farmland generating about 270 megawatts of power for about 100,000 homes. The price tag is roughly $730 million for the project. The more than 300 landowners have signed lease agreements already, and the company says these are next generation turbines. We’re not sure which ones yet, we’re gonna talk about that, that are taller and larger than older models. Uh, they’ll have to be, [00:27:00] uh, Alliant estimates the project will save customers about $450 million over the 35 years by avoiding volatile fuel costs and. We’ll generate more than $100 million in local tax revenue. Now, Joel, I think everybody in Europe, when I talk to them ask me the the same thing. Is there anything happening onshore in the US for wind? And the answer is yes all the time. Onshore wind may not be as prolific as it was a a year or two ago, but there’s still a lot of new projects, big projects going to happen here. Joel Saxum: Yeah. If you’ve been following the news here with Alliant Energy, and Alliant operates in that kind of Iowa, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Illinois, that upper. Part of the Midwest, if you have watched a or listened to Alliant in the news lately, they recently signed a letter of intent for one gigawatt worth of turbines from Nordex.[00:28:00] And, uh, before the episode here, we’re doing a little digging to try to figure out what they’re gonna do with this wind farm. And if you start doing some math, you see 277 megawatts, only 40 turbines. Well, that means that they’ve gotta be big, right? We’re looking at six plus megawatt turbines here, and I did a little bit deeper digging, um, in the Wisconsin Public Service Commission’s paperwork. Uh, the docket for this wind farm explicitly says they will be nordex turbines. So to me, that speaks to an N 1 63 possibly going up. Um, and that goes along too. Earlier in the episode we talked about should you use larger turbines and less of them. I think that that’s a way to appease local landowners. That’s my opinion. I don’t know if that’s the, you know, landman style sales tactic they used publicly, but to only put 40 wind turbines out. Whereas in the past, a 280 megawatt wind farm would’ve been a hundred hundred, [00:29:00]20, 140 turbine farm. I think that’s a lot easier to swallow as a, as a, as a local public. Right. But to what you said, Alan. Yeah, absolutely. When farms are going forward, this one’s gonna be in central Wisconsin, not too far from Wisconsin Dells, if you know where that is and, uh, you know, the, the math works out. Alliant is, uh, a hell of a developer. They’ve been doing a lot of big things for a lot of long, long time, and, uh, they’re moving into Wisconsin here on this one. Allen Hall: What are gonna be some of the challenges, Yolanda being up in Wisconsin because it does get really cold and others. Icing systems that need to be a applied to these blades because of the cold and the snow. As Joel mentioned, there’s always like 4, 5, 6 meters of snow in Wisconsin during January, February. That’s not an easy environment for a blade or or turbine to operate in.  Yolanda Padron: I think they definitely will. Um, I’m. Not as well versed as Rosie as [00:30:00] in the Canadian and colder region icing practices. But I mean, something that’s great for, for people in Wisconsin is, is Canada who has a lot of wind resources and they, I mean, a lot of the things have been tried, tested, and true, right? So it’s not like it’s a, it’s a novel technology in a novel place necessarily because. On the cold side, you have things that have been a lot worse, really close, and you have on the warm side, I mean just in Texas, everything’s a lot warmer than there. Um, I think something that’s really exciting for the landowners and the just in general there. I know sometimes there’s agreements that have, you know, you get a percentage of the earnings depending on like how many. Megawatts are generated on your land or something. So that will be so great for that community to be able [00:31:00] to, I mean, you have bigger turbines on your land, so you have probably a lot more money coming into the community than just to, to alliance. So that’s, that’s a really exciting thing to hear.  Allen Hall: That wraps up another episode of the Uptime Wind Energy Podcast. If today’s discussion sparked any questions or ideas, we’d love to hear from you. Reach out to us on LinkedIn and don’t forget to subscribe so you never miss an episode. And if you found value in today’s discussion, please leave us a review. It really helps other wind energy professionals discover the show For Rosie, Yolanda and Joel, I’m Allen Hall and we’ll see you next time on the Uptime Wind Energy Podcast.

Allen, Joel, Rosemary, and Yolanda cover major offshore wind developments on both sides of the Atlantic. In the US, Ørsted’s Revolution Wind won a court victory allowing construction to resume after the Trump administration’s suspension. Meanwhile, the UK awarded contracts for 8.4 gigawatts of new offshore capacity in the largest auction in European history, with RWE securing nearly 7 gigawatts. Plus Canada’s Nova Scotia announces ambitious 40 gigawatt offshore wind plans, and the crew discusses the ongoing Denmark-Greenland tensions with the US administration. Sign up now for Uptime Tech News, our weekly newsletter on all things wind technology. This episode is sponsored by Weather Guard Lightning Tech. Learn more about Weather Guard’s StrikeTape Wind Turbine LPS retrofit. Follow the show on YouTube, Linkedin and visit Weather Guard on the web. And subscribe to Rosemary’s “Engineering with Rosie” YouTube channel here. Have a question we can answer on the show? Email us! The Uptime Wind Energy Podcast brought to you by Strike Tape, protecting thousands of wind turbines from lightning damage worldwide. Visit strike tape.com. And now your hosts, Alan Hall, Rosemary Barnes, Joel Saxon and Yolanda Padron. Welcome to the Uptime Wind Energy Podcast. I’m Allen Hall, along with Yolanda, Joel and Rosie. Boy, a lot of action in the US courts. And as you know, for weeks, American offshore wind has been holding its breath and a lot of people’s jobs are at stake right now. The Trump administration suspended, uh, five major projects on December 22nd, and still they’re still citing national security concerns. Billions of dollars are really in balance here. Construction vessels for most of these. Sites are just doing nothing at the minute, but the courts are stepping in and Sted won a [00:01:00] key victory when the federal judge allowed its revolution wind project off the coast of Rhode Island to resume construction immediately. So everybody’s excited there and it does sound like Osted is trying to finish that project as fast as they can. And Ecuador and Dominion Energy, which are two of the other bigger projects, are fighting similar battles. Ecuador is supposed to hear in the next couple of days as we’re recording. Uh, but the message is pretty clear from developers. They have invested too much to walk away, and if they get an opportunity to wrap these projects up quickly. They are going to do it now. Joel, before the show, we were talking about vineyard wind and vineyard. Wind was on hold, and I think it, it may not even be on hold right now, I have to go back and look. But when they were put on hold, uh, the question was, the turbines that were operating, were they able to continue operating? And the answer initially I thought was no. But it was yes, the, the turbines that were [00:02:00] producing power. We’re allowed to continue to produce powers. What was in the balance were the remaining turbines that were still being installed or, uh, being upgraded. So there’s, there’s a lot going on right now, but it does seem like, and back to your earlier point, Joel, before we start talking and maybe you can discuss this, we, there is an offshore wind farm called Block Island really closely all these other wind farms, and it’s been there for four or five years at this point. No one’s said anything about that wind farm.  Speaker: I think it’s been there, to be honest with you, since like 2016 or 17. It’s been there a long time. Is it that old? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So when we were talk, when we’ve been talking through and it gets lost in the shuffle and it shouldn’t, because that’s really the first offshore wind farm in the United States. We keep talking about all these big, you know, utility scale massive things, but that is a utility scale wind farm as well. There’s fi, correct me if I’m wrong, Yolanda, is it five turbos or six? It’s five. Their decent sized turbines are sitting on jackets. They’re just, uh, they’re, they’re only a couple miles offshore. They’re not way offshore. But throughout all of these issues that we’ve had, um, with [00:03:00] these injunctions and stopping construction and stopping this and reviewing permits and all these things, block Island has just been spinning, producing power, uh, for the locals there off the coast of Rhode Island. So we. What were our, the question was is, okay, all these other wind farms that are partially constructed, have they been spinning? Are they producing power? And my mind goes to this, um, as a risk reduction effort. I wonder if, uh, the cable, if the cable lay timelines were what they were. Right. So would you now, I guess as a risk reduction effort, and this seems really silly to have to think about this. If you have your offshore substation, was the, was the main export cable connected to some of these like revolution wind where they have the injunction right now? Was that export cable connected and were the inter array cables regularly connected to turbines and them coming online? Do, do, do, do, do. Like, it wasn’t like a COD, we turned the switch and we had to wait for all 62 turbines. Right. So to our [00:04:00] knowledge and, and, uh, please reach out to any of us on LinkedIn or an email or whatever to our knowledge. The turbines that are in production have still have been spinning. It’s the construction activities that have been stopped, but now. Hey, revolution wind is 90% complete and they’re back out and running, uh, on construction activities as of today. Speaker 2: It was in the last 48 hours. So this, this is a good sign because I think as the other wind farms go through the courts, they’re gonna essentially run through this, this same judge I that. Tends to happen because they have done all the research already. So you, you likely get the same outcome for all the other wind farms, although they have to go through the process. You can’t do like a class action, at least that’s doesn’t appear to be in play at the minute. Uh, they’re all gonna have to go through this little bit of a process. But what the judge is saying essentially is the concern from the Department of War, and then the Department of Interior is. [00:05:00] Make believe. I, I don’t wanna frame it. It’s not framed that way, the way it’s written. There’s a lot more legalistic terms about it. But it basically, they’re saying they tried to stop it before they didn’t get the result they wanted. The Trump administration didn’t get the result they wanted. So the Trump administration ramped it up by saying it was something that was classified in, in part of the Department of War. The judge isn’t buying it. So the, the, the early action. I think what we initially talked about this, everybody, I think the early feeling was they’re trying to stop it, but the fact that they’re trying to stop it just because, and just start pulling permits is not gonna stand outta the court. And when they want to come back and do it again, they’re not likely to win. If they would. Kept their ammunition dry and just from the beginning said it’s something classified as something defense related that Trump administration probably would’ve had a better shot at this. But now it just seems like everything’s just gonna lead down the pathway where all these projects get finished. Speaker: Yeah, I think that specific judge probably was listening to the [00:06:00] Uptime podcast last week for his research. Um, listen to, to our opinions that we talked about here, saying that this is kind of all bs. It’s not gonna fly. Uh, but what we’re sitting at here is like Revolution Wind was, had the injunction against it. Uh, empire Wind had an injunction again, but they were awaiting a similar ruling. So hopefully that’s actually supposed to go down today. That’s Wednesday. Uh, this is, so we’re recording this on Wednesday. Um, and then Dominion is, has, is suing as well, and their, uh, hearing is on Friday. In two, two days from now. And I would expect, I mean, it’s the same, same judge, same piece of papers, like it’s going to be the same result. Some numbers to throw at this thing. Now, just so the listeners know the impact of this, uh, dominion for the Coastal Virginia Offshore Wind Project, they say that their pause in construction is costing them $5 million a day, and that is. That’s a pretty round number. It’s a conservative number to be honest with you. For officer operations, how many vessels and how much stuff is out there? That makes sense. Yep. [00:07:00] 5 million. So $5 million a day. And that’s one of the wind farms. Uh, coastal, Virginia Wind Farm is an $11 billion project. With, uh, it’s like 176 turbines. I think something to that, like it’s, it’s got enough power, it’s gonna have enough production out there to power up, like, uh, like 650,000 homes when it’s done. So there’s five projects suspended right now. I’m continuing with the numbers. Um, well, five, there’s four now. Revolution’s back running, right? So five and there’s four. Uh, four still stopped. And of those five is 28. Billion dollars in combined capital at risk, right? So you can understand why some of these companies are worried, right? They’re this is, this is not peanuts. Um, so you saw a little bump in like Ted stock in the markets when this, this, uh, revolution wind, uh, injunction was stopped. Uh, but. You also see that, uh, Moody’s is a credit [00:08:00] rating. They’ve lowered ORs, Ted’s um, rating from stable to negative, given that political risk.  Speaker 2: Well, if you haven’t been paying attention, wind energy O and m Australia 2026 is happening relatively soon. It’s gonna be February 17th and 18th. It’s gonna be at the Pullman Hotel downtown Melbourne. And we are all looking forward to it. The, the roster and the agenda is, is nearly assembled at this point. Uh, we have a, a couple of last minute speakers, but uh, I’m looking at the agenda and like, wow, if you work in o and m or even are around wind turbines, this is the place to be in February. From my  Speaker: seat. It’s pretty, it’s, it’s, it’s shaping up for pretty fun. My phone has just been inundated with text message and WhatsApp of when are you traveling? What are your dates looking forward to, and I wanna say this right, Rosie. Looking forward to Melvin. Did I get it? Did I do it okay.  Speaker 3: You know how to say it.  Speaker: So, so we’re, we’re really looking forward to, we’ve got a bunch of people traveling from around the [00:09:00] world, uh, to come and share their collective knowledge, uh, and learn from the Australians about how they’re doing things, what the, what the risks are, what the problems are, uh, really looking forward to the environment down there, like we had last year was very. Collaborative, the conversations are flowing. Um, so we’re looking forward to it, uh, in a big way from our seats. Over here,  Speaker 2: we are announcing a lightning workshop, and that workshop will be answering all your lightning questions in regards to your turbines Now. Typically when we do this, it’s about $10,000 per seat, and this will be free as part of WMA 2026. We’re gonna talk about some of the lightning physics, what’s actually happening in the field versus what the OEMs are saying and what the IEC specification indicates. And the big one is force majeure. A lot of operators are paying for damages that are well within the IEC specification, and we’ll explain.[00:10:00] What that is all about and what you can do to save yourself literally millions of dollars. But that is only possible if you go to Woma 2020 six.com and register today because we’re running outta seats. Once they’re gone, they’re gone. But this is a great opportunity to get your lightning questions answered. And Rosemary promised me that we’re gonna talk about Vestus turbines. Siemens turbines. GE Renova turbines. Nordex turbines. So if you have Nordex turbines, Sulan turbines, bring the turbine. Type, we’ll talk about it. We’ll get your questions answered, and the goal is that everybody at at Wilma 2026 is gonna go home and save themselves millions of dollars in 26 and millions of dollars in 27 and all the years after, because this Lightning workshop is going to take care of those really frustrating lightning questions that just don’t get answered. We’re gonna do it right there. Sign up today.  Speaker 3: [00:11:00] You know what, I’m really looking forward to that session and especially ’cause I’ve got a couple of new staff or new-ish staff at, it’s a great way to get them up to speed on lightning. And I think that actually like the majority of people, even if you are struggling with lightning problems every day, I bet that there is a whole bunch that you could learn about the underlying physics of lightning. And there’s not so many places to find that in the world. I have looked, um, for my staff training, where is the course that I can send them to, to understand all about lightning? I know when I started atm, I had a, an intro session, one-on-one with the, you know, chief Lightning guy there. That’s not so easy to come by, and this is the opportunity where you can get that and better because it’s information about every, every OEM and a bit of a better understanding about how it works so that you can, you know, one of the things that I find working with Lightning is a lot of force MA mature claims. And then, um, the OEMs, they try and bamboozle you with this like scientific sounding talk. If you understand better, then you’ll be able to do better in those discussions. [00:12:00] So I would highly recommend attending if you can swing the Monday as well.  Speaker: If you wanna attend now and you’re coming to the events. Reach out to, you can reach out to me directly because what we want to do now is collect, uh, as much information as possible about the specific turbine types of the, that the people in the room are gonna be responsible for. So we can tailor those messages, um, to help you out directly. So feel free to reach out to me, joel.saxo, SAXU m@wglightning.com and uh, we’ll be squared away and ready to roll on Monday. I think that’s Monday the 16th.  Speaker 2: So while American offshore wind fights for survival in the courts, British offshore wind just had its biggest day ever. The United Kingdom awarded contracts for 8.4 gigawatts. That’s right. 8.4 gigawatts of new offshore wind capacity, the largest auction in European history. Holy smokes guys. The price came in at about 91 pounds per megawatt hour, and that’s 2024 pounds. [00:13:00] Uh, and that’s roughly 40% cheaper than building a new. Gas plant Energy Secretary Ed Milliband called it a monumental step towards the country’s 2030 clean power goals and that it is, uh, critics say that prices are still higher than previous auctions, and one that the government faces challenges connecting all this new capacity to the grid, and they do, uh, transmission is a limiting factor here, but in terms of where the UK is headed. Putting in gigawatts of offshore wind is going to disconnect them from a lot of need on the gas supply and other energy sources. It’s a massive auction round. This was way above what I remember being, uh. Talked about when we were in Scotland just a couple of weeks ago, Joel.  Speaker: Yeah, that’s what I was gonna say. You know, when we were, when we were up with the, or E Catapult event, and we talked to a lot of the different organizations of their OWGP and um, you know, the course, the or e Catapult folks and, and, and a [00:14:00] few others, they were really excited about AR seven. They were like, oh, we’re, we’re so excited. It’s gonna come down, it’s gonna be great. I didn’t expect these kind of numbers to come out of this thing. Right? ’cause we know that, um, they’ve got about, uh, the UK currently has about. 16 and a half or so gigawatts of offshore wind capacity, um, with, you know, they got a bunch under construction, it’s like 11 under construction, but their goal is to have 43 gigawatts by 2030. So,  Speaker 2: man.  Speaker: Yeah. And, and when 2030, put this into Conte Con context now. This is one of our first podcasts of the new year. That’s only four years away. Right. It’s soon. And, and to, to be able to do that. So you’re saying they got 16, they go some round numbers. They got 16 now. Pro producing 11 in the pipe, 11 being constructed. So get that to 27. That’s another 16 gigawatts of wind. They want, they that are not under construction today that they want to have completed in the next four years. That is a monumental effort now. We know that there’s some grid grid complications and connection [00:15:00] requirements and things that will slow that down, but just thinking about remove the grid idea, just thinking about the amount of effort to get those kind of large capital projects done in that short of timeline. Kudos to the UK ’cause they’re unlocking a lot of, um, a lot of private investment, a lot of effort to get these things, but they’re literally doing the inverse of what we’re doing in the United States right now.  Speaker 2: There would be about a total of 550, 615 ish megawatt turbines in the water. That does seem doable though. The big question is who’s gonna be providing those turbines? That’s a. Massive order. Whoever the salesperson is involved in that transaction is gonna be very happy. Well, the interesting thing here  Speaker: too is the global context of assets to be able to deliver this. We just got done talking about the troubles at these wind farms in the United States. As soon as these. Wind farms are finished. There’s not more of them coming to construction phase shortly, right? So all of these assets, all these jack up vessels, these installation vessels, these specialized cable lay vessels, they [00:16:00]can, they can fuel up and freaking head right across, back across the Atlantic and start working on these things. If the pre all of the engineering and, and the turbine deliveries are ready to roll the vessels, uh, ’cause that you, that, you know, two years ago that was a problem. We were all. Forecasting. Oh, we have this forecasted problem of a shortage of vessels and assets to be able to do installs. And now with the US kind of, basically, once we’re done with the wind farms, we’re working on offshore, now we’re shutting it down. It frees those back up, right? So the vessels will be there, be ready to roll. You’ll have people coming off of construction projects that know what’s going on, right? That, that know how to, to work these things. So the, the people, the vessels that will be ready to roll it is just, can we get the cables, the mono piles, the turbines and the cells, the blades, all done in time, uh, to make this happen And, and. I know I’m rambling now, but after leaving that or e Catapult event and talking to some of the people, um, that are supporting those [00:17:00] funds over there, uh, being injected from the, uh, the government, I think that they’ve got  Speaker 2: the, the money flowing over there to get it done too. The big winner in the auction round was RWE and they. Almost seven gigawatts. So that was a larger share of the 8.4 gigawatts. RWE obviously has a relationship with Vestus. Is that where this is gonna go? They’re gonna be, uh, installing vestus turbines. And where were those tur turbines? As I was informed by Scottish gentlemen, I won’t name names. Uh, will those turbines be built in the uk? Speaker 3: It’s a lot. It’s a, it’s one of the biggest challenges with, um, the supply chain for wind energy is that it just is so lumpy. So, you know, you get, um, uh. You get huge eight gigawatts all at once and then you have years of, you know, just not much. Not much, not much going on. I mean, for sure they’re not gonna be just building [00:18:00] eight gigawatts worth of, um, wind turbines in the UK in the next couple of years because they would also have to build the capacity to manufacture that and, and then would wanna be building cocks every couple of years for, you know, the next 10 or 20 years. So, yeah, of course they’re gonna be manufacturing. At facilities around the world and, and transporting them. But, um, yeah, I just, I don’t know. It’s one of the things that I just. Constantly shake my head about is like, how come, especially when projects are government supported, when plans are government supported, why, why can’t we do a better job of smoothing things out so that you can have, you know, for example, local manufacturing because everyone knows that they’ve got a secure pipeline. It’s just when the government’s involved, it should be possible.  Speaker 2: At least the UK has been putting forth some. Pretty big numbers to support a local supply chain. When we were over in Scotland, they announced 300 million pounds, and that was just one of several. That’s gonna happen over the next year. There will be a [00:19:00] near a billion pounds be put into the supply chain, which will make a dramatic difference. But I think you’re right. Also, it’s, they’re gonna ramp up and then they, it’s gonna ramp down. They have to find a way to feed the global marketplace at some point, be because the technology and the people are there. It’s a question of. How do you sustain it for a 20, 30 year period? That’s a different question. Speaker 3: I do agree that the UK is doing a better job than probably anybody else. Um, it it’s just that they, the way that they have chosen to organize these auctions and the government support and the planning just means that they have that, that this is the perfect conditions to, you know. Make a smooth rollout and you know, take care of all this. And so I just a bit frustrated that they’re not doing more. But you are right that they’re doing the best probably  Speaker 4: once all of these are in service though, aren’t there quite a bit of aftermarket products that are available in the UK  Speaker: on the service then? I think there’s more.  Speaker 4: Which, I mean, that’s good. A good part of it, right? Speaker: If we’re talking Vestas, so, so let’s just round this [00:20:00] up too. If we’re talking vest’s production for blades in Europe, you have two facilities in Denmark that build V 2 36 blades. You have one facility in Italy that builds V 2 36 blades, Taiwan, but they build them for the APAC market. Of course. Um, Poland had a, has one on hold right now, V 2 36 as well. Well, they just bought that factory from LM up in Poland also. That’s, but I think that’s for onshore term, onshore blades. Oh, yes, sure. And then Scotland has, they have the proposed facility in, in Laith. That there, that’s kind of on hold as well. So if that one’s proposed, I’m sure, hey, if we get a big order, they’ll spin that up quick because they’ll get, I am, I would imagine someone o you know, one of the, one of the funds to spool up a little bit of money, boom, boom, boom. ’cause they’re turning into local jobs. Local supply  Speaker 2: chain does this then create the condition where a lot of wind turbines, like when we were in Scotland, a lot of those wind turbines are. Gonna reach 20 years old, maybe a little bit older here over the next five years where they will [00:21:00] need to be repowered upgraded, whatever’s gonna happen there. If you had internal manufacturing. In country that would, you’d think lower the price to go do that. That will be a big effort just like it is in Spain right now.  Speaker: The trouble there though too, is if you’re using local content in, in the uk, the labor prices are so much  Speaker 2: higher. I’m gonna go back to Rosie’s point about sort of the way energy is sold worldwide. UK has high energy prices, mostly because they are buying energy from other countries and it’s expensive to get it in country. So yes, they can have higher labor prices and still be lower cost compared to the alternatives. It, it’s not the same equation in the US versus uk. It’s, it’s totally different economics, but. If they get enough power generation, which I think the UK will, they’re gonna offload that and they’re already doing it now. So you can send power to France, send power up [00:22:00] north. There’s ways to sell that extra power and help pay for the system you built. That would make a a lot of sense. It’s very similar to what the Saudis have done for. Dang near 80 years, which is fill tankers full of oil and sell it. This is a little bit different that we’re just sending electrons through the water to adjacent European countries. It does seem like a plan. I hope they’re sending ’em through a cable in the water and not just into the water. Well, here’s the thing that was concerning early on. They’re gonna turn it into hydrogen and put it on a ship and send it over to France. Like that didn’t make any sense at all. Uh. Cable’s on the way to do it. Right.  Speaker: And actually, Alan, you and I did have a conversation with someone not too long ago about that triage market and how the project where they put that, that that trans, that HVDC cable next to the tunnel it, and it made and it like paid for itself in a year or something. Was that like, that they didn’t wanna really tell us like, yeah, it paid for itself in a year. Like it was a, the ROI was like on a, like a $500 million [00:23:00]project or something. That’s crazy. Um, but yeah, that’s the same. That’s, that is, I would say part of the big push in the uk there is, uh, then they can triage that power and send it, send it back across. Um, like I think Nord Link is the, the cable between Peterhead and Norway, right? So you have, you have a triage market going across to the Scandinavian countries. You have the triage market going to mainland eu. Um, and in when they have big time wind, they’re gonna be able to do it. So when you have an RWE. Looking at seven gigawatts of, uh, possibility that they just, uh, just procured. Game on. I love it. I think it’s gonna be cool. I’m, I’m happy to see it blow  Speaker 2: up. Canada is getting serious about offshore wind and international developers are paying attention. Q Energy, France and its South Korean partner. Hawa Ocean have submitted applications to develop wind projects off Nova Scotia’s Coast. The province has big ambitions. Premier, Tim Houston wants to license enough. Offshore [00:24:00] wind to produce 40 gigawatts of power far more than Nova Scotia would ever need. Uh, the extra electricity could supply more than a quarter of Canada’s total demand. If all goes according to plan, the first turbines could be spinning by 2035. Now, Joel. Yeah, some of this power will go to Canada, but there’s a huge market in the United States also for this power and the capacity factor up in Nova Scotia offshore is really good. Yeah. It’s uh, it  Speaker: is simply, it’s stellar, right? Uh, that whole No, Nova Scotia, new Brunswick, Newfoundland, that whole e even Maritimes of Canada. The wind, the wind never stops blowing, right? Like I, I go up there every once in a while ’cause my wife is from up there and, uh, it’s miserable sometimes even in the middle of summer. Um, so the, the wind resource is fantastic. The, it, it is a boom or will be a boom for the Canadian market, right? There’re always [00:25:00] that maritime community, they’re always looking for, for, uh, new jobs. New jobs, new jobs. And this is gonna bring them to them. Um, one thing I wanna flag here is when I know this, when this announcement came out. And I reached out to Tim Houston’s office to try to get him on the podcast, and I haven’t gotten a response yet. Nova Scotia. So if someone that’s listening can get ahold of Tim Houston, we’d love to talk to him about the plans for Nova Scotia. Um, but, but we see that just like we see over overseas, the triage market of we’re making power, we can sell it. You know, we balance out the prices, we can sell it to other places. From our seats here we’ve been talking about. The electricity demand on the east coast of the United States for, for years and how it is just climbing, climbing, climbing, especially AI data centers. Virginia is a hub of this, right? They need power and we’re shooting ourselves in the foot, foot for offshore wind, plus also canceling pipelines and like there’s no extra generation going on there except for some solar plants where you can squeeze ’em in down in the Carolinas and whatnot. [00:26:00] There is a massive play here for the Canadians to be able to HVD see some power down to us. Speaker 2: The offshore conditions off the coast of Nova Scotia are pretty rough, and the capacity factor being so high makes me think of some of the Brazilian wind farms where the capacity factor is over 50%. It’s amazing down there, but one of the outcomes of that has been early turbine problems. And I’m wondering if the Nova Scotia market is going to demand a different kind of turbine that is specifically built for those conditions. It’s cold, really cold. It’s really windy. There’s a lot of moisture in the air, right? So the salt is gonna be bad. Uh, and then the sea life too, right? There’s a lot of, uh, sea life off the coast of the Nova Scotia, which everybody’s gonna be concerned about. Obviously, as this gets rolling. How do we think about this? And who’s gonna be the manufacturer of turbines for Canada? Is it gonna be Nordics? Well,  Speaker: let’s start from the ground up there. So from the or ground up, it’s, how about sea [00:27:00] floor up? Let’s start from there. There is a lot of really, really, if you’ve ever worked in the offshore world, the o offshore, maritime Canadian universities that focus on the, on offshore construction, they produce some of the best engineers for those markets, right? So if you go down to Houston, Texas where there’s offshore oil and gas companies and engineering companies everywhere, you run into Canadians from the Maritimes all over the place ’cause they’re really good at what they do. Um, they are developing or they have developed offshore oil and gas platforms. Off of the coast of Newfoundland and up, up in that area. And there’s some crazy stuff you have to compete with, right? So you have icebergs up there. There’s no icebergs in the North Atlantic that like, you know, horn seats, internet cruising through horn C3 with icebergs. So they’ve, they’ve engineered and created foundations and things that can deal with that, those situations up there. But you also have to remember that you’re in the Canadian Shield, which is, um, the Canadian Shield is a geotechnical formation, right? So it’s very rocky. Um, and it’s not [00:28:00] like, uh, the other places where we’re putting fixed bottom wind in where you just pound the piles into the sand. That’s not how it’s going to go, uh, up in Canada there. So there’s some different engineering that’s going to have to take place for the foundations, but like you said, Alan Turbine specific. It blows up there. Right. And we have seen onshore, even in the United States, when you get to areas that have high capacity burning out main bearings, burning out generators prematurely because the capacity factor is so high and those turbines are just churning. Um, I, I don’t know if any of the offshore wind turbine manufacturers are adjusting any designs specifically for any markets. I, I just don’t know that. Um, but they may run into some. Some tough stuff up there, right? You might run into some, some overspeeding main bearings and some maintenance issues, specifically in the wintertime ’cause it is nasty up there. Speaker 2: Well, if you have 40 gigawatts of capacity, you have several thousand turbines, you wanna make sure really [00:29:00] sure that the blade design is right, that the gearbox is right if you have a gearbox, and that everything is essentially over-designed, heated. You can have deicing systems on it, I would assume that would be something you would be thinking about. You do the same thing for the monopoles. The whole assembly’s gotta be, have a, just a different thought process than a turbine. You would stick off the coast of Germany. Still rough conditions at times, but not like Nova Scotia.  Speaker: One, one other thing there to think about too that we haven’t dealt with, um. In such extreme levels is the, the off the coast of No. Nova Scotia is the Bay of Fundee. If you know anything about the Bay of Fundee, it is the highest tide swings in the world. So the tide swings at certain times of the year, can be upwards of 10 meters in a 12 hour period in this area of, of the ocean. And that comes with it. Different time, different types of, um, one of the difficult things for tide swings is it creates subsid currents. [00:30:00] Subsid currents are, are really, really, really bad, nasty. Against rocks and for any kind of cable lay activities and longevity of cable lay scour protection around turbines and stuff like that. So that’s another thing that subsea that we really haven’t spoke about.  Speaker 3: You know, I knew when you say Bay Bay of funding, I’m like, I know that I have heard that place before and it’s when I was researching for. Tidal power videos for Tidal Stream. It’s like the best place to, to generate electricity from. Yeah, from Tidal Stream. So I guess if you are gonna be whacking wind turbines in there anyway, maybe you can share some infrastructure and Yeah. Eca a little bit, a little bit more from your, your project.  Speaker 2: that wraps up another episode of the Uptime Wind Energy Podcast. If today’s discussion sparked any questions or ideas. We’d love to hear from you. Just reach out to us on LinkedIn and don’t forget to subscribe so you never miss an episode. And if you found value in today’s conversation, please leave us a review. It really helps other wind energy professionals discover the show For Rosie, Yolanda and Joel, I’m Alan Hall, and we’ll see you here next week on the Uptime [00:36:00] Wind Energy Podcast.

Allen covers the deepening US offshore wind crisis as Ørsted reports losing €1.5 million daily on American projects and Equinor sets a January 16 deadline to resume or cancel Empire Wind. Meanwhile, onshore wind thrives with Invenergy’s 2GW Oklahoma project and AES repowering Buffalo Gap in Texas with Vestas turbines. Sign up now for Uptime Tech News, our weekly newsletter on all things wind technology. This episode is sponsored by Weather Guard Lightning Tech. Learn more about Weather Guard’s StrikeTape Wind Turbine LPS retrofit. Follow the show on YouTube, Linkedin and visit Weather Guard on the web. And subscribe to Rosemary’s “Engineering with Rosie” YouTube channel here. Have a question we can answer on the show? Email us! Danish energy giant Ørsted said it is losing one and a half million euros on US offshore projects. Every. Single. Day. Norwegian company Equinor has drawn a line in the sand. January sixteenth. Resume construction on Empire Wind… or cancel the whole thing. 3.5 billion euros invested. Sixty percent complete. And now… a deadline. As we all know, the Bureau of Ocean Energy Management issued stop-work orders on December twenty-second. Just before Christmas. A gift nobody wanted. Ørsted has filed complaints. First on Revolution Wind. Then Sunrise Wind. Court documents reveal the Danish company stands to lose more than 5 billion euros if forced to abandon both projects. Meanwhile… President Trump signed an executive order withdrawing America from sixty-six international organizations. Many focused on energy cooperation. On climate. Ole Rydahl Svensson of Green Power Denmark calls it a sad development. But not surprising. Ole says America is abdicating from renewable energy… in favor of energy forms of the past. The empty seats will be filled quickly, he predicts. By China. By Europe. I personally get asked every week by my European friends, is US onshore wind also under attack?? I think the answer is not yet. While offshore wind projects sit paralyzed by federal orders… Out in the Oklahoma Panhandle… something different is happening. Invenergy is planning a three hundred wind turbine wind farm. Two gigawatts of power. Enough electricity for eight hundred fifty thousand American homes. According to recent filings the turbines will be supplied by GE Vernova. Invenergy already operates wind farms in ten Oklahoma counties. They’ve already built the largest single-phase wind park in North America outside of Oklahoma City. Four billion dollars of investment. Five hundred construction jobs. Thirty permanent positions. No stop-work orders. No court battles. No international incidents. And down near Abilene Texas, AES is repowering its Buffalo Gap wind farm – the existing 282 turbines will be replaced with 117 new Vestas V150 4.5MW turbines. $94 million in tax revenue for local counties and schools over its lifetime. It will also create 300 jobs during peak construction and 17 long-term operations jobs. So while the US oceans remain off-limits… While billions evaporate in legal fees and idle vessels… The wind industry continues to move forward. And that’s the state of the wind industry for January 12, 2026. Join us for the Uptime Wind Energy Podcast tomorrow.

John Palke and I were introduced at a Realities for Children event some months back, and when we finally enjoyed a coffee together, I knew he had a story that I had to dig into and share! In real estate since 2019, John had previously been a commercial fisherman in Alaska (where he once fell in the water and nearly froze to death), was a partner in one of my favorite band bars, Hodi's Half Note, and worked in operations at Vestas - until he realized giant windmills were a mostly a heavily subsidized boondoggle.  After getting into real estate with a name-brand firm, John became a partner in a property management business, Big Bear Properties.  During the refi boom, he referred a full-time income worth of mortgages to a friend - who  encouraged to become a licensed mortgage broker - allowing him to provide full-service real estate for investors - or a la carte for anyone!   In 2025, he decided to go his own way in real estate, founding BBP Realty almost exactly a year from when this episode was released. John's a great storyteller, and I enjoyed every bit of this conversation - and I think you will too.  So please join me in getting to know and love my new friend John Palke.  The LoCo Experience Podcast is sponsored by: Purpose Driven Wealth Thrivent: Learn more

Allen, Joel, and Yolanda examine TPI Composites’ Chapter 11 proceedings, including the Oaktree Capital secured debt controversy and Vestas’ acquisition of two Mexican factories. With remaining assets heading to auction in January, they discuss what operators should consider as blade supply uncertainty grows. Sign up now for Uptime Tech News, our weekly email update on all things wind technology. This episode is sponsored by Weather Guard Lightning Tech. Learn more about Weather Guard’s StrikeTape Wind Turbine LPS retrofit. Follow the show on Facebook, YouTube, Twitter, Linkedin and visit Weather Guard on the web. And subscribe to Rosemary Barnes’ YouTube channel here. Have a question we can answer on the show? Email us! The Uptime Wind Energy Podcast brought to you by Strike Tape, protecting thousands of wind turbines from lightning damage worldwide. Visit strike tape.com. And now your hosts, Allen Hall, Rosemary Barnes, Joel Saxum and Yolanda Padron. Welcome to the Uptime Wind Energy  Allen Hall: Podcast. I’m your host, Allen Hall. I’m here with Yolanda Padron and Joel Saxum. Rosemary Barnes is on holiday. We’re here to talk about the TPI composites, uh, bankruptcy hearings, and there’s been so much happening there behind the scenes. It’s hard to keep track of, but we’ve done a deep dive and wanted to give everybody at least a highlight of what has happened over the last couple of months. So, uh, if you do own vessels or GE turbines, you understand what the situation is. As we all know, TPI composites, gee, was the world’s largest independent of wind blade manufacturing. Uh, they [00:01:00] were, it, they built blades for renova, Vestas, Nordex. They built blades for almost everybody, uh, names that basically power the global energy transition. And then, uh, if, and a lot of people don’t know this, but back in December of 2023, uh, TPI struck a deal that is drawing some fire. Right now, TPI swapped $436 million in preferred stock for. $393 million in secure debt held by Oak Tree Capital and by August of last year, just a couple of months ago, TPI filed for Chapter 11. Now the Blade Makers assets are being carved up and sold, and two of wind energy’s biggest players are stepping in to keep production running while the bankruptcy plays out. Now, Joel and Yolanda, I, I think the bankruptcy of. TPI sort of came to the industry as a little bit of a shock. Obviously [00:02:00] the, the price had fallen quite a bit. Uh, if you’ve watched the stock price of TPI composites had been dropping for a while and didn’t have a lot of of market value. However, uh, GE and Vestas both have manufacturing facilities basically with uh, TPI composites and, and needs them to produce those blades. So the filing of the bankruptcy, I’m sure was a nervous point for Vestus and GE being really the, the two main ones. Joel Saxum: Well, I think we talked about this a little bit off air. Is it, it shouldn’t just be Vestus and GE nervous about this now. It should be every operator that’s in either in development or still has blades under warranty. Uh, so, and this is a not a US problem, this is a global problem. ’cause TPI is a global company that serves, uh, global industry all over the place, right? We know that a large percentage of their throughput was GE and Vestas, but also Siemens ESAs in there, you name it, right? The, any major operator’s gonna have some blades built [00:03:00] by TPI or op major, OEM. So. There isn’t gonna be much of a, uh, dark corner of the wind industry that this issue doesn’t touch. So I think they, the, one of the issues here is, um, we’ve, we’ve, we’ve heard about some issues going on with TPI, but it was almost like a, ah, they’re not, they’ll, they’ll be okay. They, so, so something will happen. I mean, Yolanda, you had said. What was it that you said ear earlier? Like, uh, the kind of the, the, the feeling about it.  Yolanda Padron: They’ll take care of it. You know, OEMs will take care of it and we’ll be fine.  Joel Saxum: Someone’s gonna support this thing.  Yolanda Padron: Yeah. I, I think teams, you’re, you’re definitely right. Teams really do need to at least think of a, of a plan B or a plan C to have when the dust settles so you’re not scrambling.  Allen Hall: Yeah. And it hasn’t really played out that way. Uh, Vestas has stepped in a little bit and GE has stepped in. Not in terms of acquiring any of the major assets, but I think the first question is what is Oaktree Capital’s, [00:04:00] uh, role in all this? And that is being played out right now in front of the bankruptcy court. Uh, so when you go to bankruptcy, there’s obviously a lot of oversight that happens there, uh, and. When TPI composites entered bankruptcy, the accreditors committee had a bunch of questions about that transaction. Uh, they pointed to a December, 2023 refin refinancing deal with Oaktree and in which creditors were really suspicious of basically saying that TPI was already insolvent in 2023 and Oaktree exchanged equity for secure debt jumping ahead of everybody else in line to get paid. So because they Oaktree has secured debt, they’re first in line to get paid. If, uh, weather Guard was involved selling parts to TPI, which thank goodness we weren’t, we would be unsecured. They wouldn’t have to pay us. So Oaktree would get paid first and everybody else is unsecured, gets paid [00:05:00] later. Uh, that’s okay. I mean, that’s the way they, uh, they structured it. But this has led to a problem, right? So that oak tree. Uh, was supposed to release about $20 million in funding to keep the factories open, and that, that happened just a couple of weeks ago, and Oaktree refused to do it. So the amount of cash flow to keep the factories open was a real issue. TPI was in front of the court saying, we’re in trouble. We’re gonna become insolvent. We don’t have cash flow to keep the doors open. So the blade factories nearly shut down a couple of weeks ago. However, there was a, the settlement, uh, just after that, uh, in regards to Oaktree about when the payouts happen, what Oaktree will receive, and which basically it’s, most of whatever’s gonna happen here. So whatever, uh, TPI decides to sell or can sell, Oaktree is gonna be the recipient of those funds for most of it. I think the  Joel Saxum: difficult thing here for. The [00:06:00] general listener, me included, is understanding that this is a very complicated legal process that’s governed and it’s global, right? So it’s governed in certain court systems in different places. And because there is also the idea of like say in the, in the United States, the SEC Securities Exchanges Commission, that kind of regulates these. Publicly traded companies. There’s a lot of lights and there’s a lot of lawyers and there’s a lot of jargon involved in this thing. And, but basically what what we’re saying is, is the way the process works when you have a, uh, a bankruptcy and insolvency, if a company has debt to certain people, there may be a list of a hundred people. There may be a list of two, doesn’t matter. There’s certain classes of debt, right? And Oaktree has secured debt, which means. If they get paid first, if there’s anything, right? If this bankruptcy goes and, and gets, sell this, sell that, sell this, whatever’s left, goes to the secured debt and then it goes to unsecured debt. And [00:07:00] there’s sometimes there can be different classes of unsecured debt as well. And, but if there’s not, some of it just goes by like date or value or everybody gets a percentage, it just kind of all depends on how it works out in the specific court system that the stuff takes care of. But that person. That is the top. Um, in this case, Oaktree Capital, right? Based out of la but offices all over the world, they got about $200 billion in real estate equity and debt assets or, uh, I guess valuation. I wouldn’t say assets. Um, they are the debtor in possession, so they’re the one that’s kind of like top of the heap. They’re kind of controlling how the. The restructuring and or sale goes alongside the court system.  Allen Hall: And the trouble is, is that when you have unsecured and secured debt, everybody that’s unsecured wants to get paid. So any material supplier that has been for in selling product to TPI over the years [00:08:00] usually has a 30, 60, 90, maybe 120 days of, of after they deliver the product to they get paid. In that timeframe, if bankruptcy happens, all that product that’s sitting on the floor at TPI, you sort of lost it. You know, you can’t get it back and you’re not gonna get paid for it for if, if, if ever, what do you do? And so you start, you know, you start filing claims, but those, those claims most likely will never get paid. Or if they will, they’re going to get pennies on the dollar.  Joel Saxum: Yeah. And I would imagine like, so, you know, when we, when we sit here and say from the weather guard hat, right? We put a. They go to a client, net 15, net 30, we expect to get paid in that amount of time. That’s kind of how our, basically US forwarding credit to someone else. That’s how it works. And if you work within the wind industry, you know that the OEMs, because they are the OEMs, they have a heavier hand. Sometimes they’re net 90, net one 20. Um, once they, once they’re cool with your invoice. So you could see that some of these people that have, [00:09:00] uh, and TPI falls within that OEM category, right? Um, you can see that they more than likely will have had longer, more favorable terms for themselves with some of these sub-suppliers. And the sub-suppliers are, think about TPI blades. It is composites, it is fabric, it’s resins, it’s all of those supply companies. Um, and you know, there may be, uh, some other. Dead in there that you’re not, we’re not sure of. We saw some stuff with some OEMs, maybe they have some exchange agreements you paid up front for some blades or something of that sort. You didn’t get ’em. I don’t know. But there is also, and this is the one that kind of hits home to some of our listeners, um, not only some of our listeners are those supply chain companies that support them, um, but a lot of them are ISPs. Right? So we were just talking to someone who, you know, just a couple weeks ago that had done some inspection work, uh, for, for TPI that. They’re not gonna get paid for it. Um, we have seen on the creditors list of some ISPs that we know they’re not gonna get paid, and those are people out [00:10:00] doing warranty repairs and those kind of things over a course of time. And they may have had a net 30, net 60, net 90 days payment, but I’m sure that stuff is well and long gone. They probably have invoices due for a year now. Uh, but it, this, the, the, this downfall of TPI, what’s going on with them, it affects a lot of people in the wind industry. Um. Be being, having been on the short end once in my career of an unsecured debt, uh, when a, when the client or the, uh, um, purchaser of services, but went into bankruptcy and losing a whole bunch of cash, and there’s nothing you can do about it, um, except for. Be mad and stew over it and learn from your mistakes. Uh, that’s a tough place to be. Speaker 5: Australia’s wind farms are growing fast, but are your operations keeping up? Join us February 17th and 18th at Melbourne’s Poolman on the park for Wind energy o and m Australia [00:11:00] 2026, where you’ll connect with the experts solving real problems in maintenance asset management. And OEM relations. Walk away with practical strategies to cut costs and boost uptime that you can use the moment you’re back on site. Register now at W OM a 2020 six.com. Wind Energy o and m Australia is created by wind professionals for wind professionals because this industry needs solutions, not speeches,  Allen Hall: the problem. With TPI has been keeping the doors open and they went in front of the court and said, we have a liquidity problem. Uh, Vestus bought those two factories, those two LLCs for $10 million each. That was the agreement During that transaction, TPI asked for another $55 million, uh, and it’s in the transcripts. You can go listen to this dental, listen to it, but obviously the vest representatives were. No [00:12:00] way. We’re not doing that. We are in good faith. De decided to buy, uh, these two pieces. So 10 million bucks a, a factory is. Pretty decent price, but they are still in a liquidity challenge. So GE Renova and Vestus, uh, don’t want the Blades manufacturing to stop. They have customers who need blades and so they need these TPI factories to keep running. GE Renova is providing emergency financing. Uh, through what the court calls, uh, Erna, G-E-R-N-A, it’s a liquidity agreement. Uh, they also signed a long lead materials agreement to keep raw materials moving into the plants. Vestas provided cash advances to keep production going at the Mexico facilities also. So for now, everything continues to be running, but essentially GE and Vestas are pro paying for the materials. To keep the production line going and there’s this, there’s on the back end of this TPI is essentially. Gonna charge, um, [00:13:00] GE vest less for the blades when they roll off the line because they advanced some those funds. So, TPI as an organization is still trying to continue to produce blades and trying to honor their commitments as much as they can, but they need cash and the, the place they’re going to go get it or have been getting it from as Vestas in GE Renova. So you  Joel Saxum: one would expect that either Vestas or GE Renova would eventually just say like, we’ve got to buy you. Is that a reality? Because it doesn’t seem like it from the court documents and stuff. It seems like they’re, they’re kind of, they don’t want to get their hands into back or back into, in GEs case, this blade manufacturing, uh, faculties, right? They’re okay right now providing cash for you guys to keep your operation running and providing us with the things we need. But we don’t actually want to take it over. That’s what it feels  Allen Hall: like. Uh, well, Vestus did, right? So Vestus took over two factories in Mexico. GE has not done [00:14:00] that yet, and there’s no indication from the proceedings that I read on all the documents that GE has made any move to do that. Vestus definitely stepped in and wants to keep the two factories running, uh, with the issues with ge, Renova and LM at the minute, and there was a lot of layoffs at LM just before the new year. It’s a question of what GE will do, and it doesn’t seem like as of right now, GE is going to buy factories. Now that being said, uh, TPI composites has deadlines to meet and some auctions to run. Uh, the remaining assets, the non vestus. Portion and the, the Turkish operations, which were sold way earlier, uh, all of the remaining assets go up for bid on January 26th. And if no outside buyer steps in, which is very possible, Oak Tree Capital can use its debt as currency to take ownership of from what is called a credit bid. [00:15:00] From there, uh, the secure lender could convert that debt into equity and, and so basically what happens is Oak Tree Capital. Would be the holder of the company for whatever remains. But you would think that GE Viva, uh, would want to have some piece of this to keep the blade factories running, but there’s no indication of that. No one from GE has said anything. None of the filings indicate that GE wants to go ahead and or ge. Viva wants to go ahead and buy the factories. Nothing like that has happened. So there may be, uh, some more financial transactions at play here, but as of right now, everything that remains for TPI composites is gonna be in the auction block. Someone could walk up and for several million dollars, obviously, uh, acquire it and  Joel Saxum: in theory run it. So, I mean, Alan, you and I talked about this this morning a little bit. We have seen more [00:16:00] layoffs at lm. Right. We saw more people depart and it sounds like that building is basically a ghost town over in Denmark. GE is basically scuttling LM down to nothing, and they will more than likely either sell off whatever LM has or discontinue whatever that business model is, if that’s where they’re going, blade wise, wind wise. At the same time, they’ve also said, we’re not building any more g offshore turbines.  Allen Hall: What are they  Joel Saxum: doing? I don’t see them having the, the, the, the thirst to go scoop up or put any money into TPI, but it’s like a catch 22. ’cause they need them to fulfill the orders and stuff that they have. Right now what we’re staring at is basically oak tree composites. Allen Hall: There’s no chance of that. The oak tree doesn’t know how to run that business. They’re gonna have to hire somebody to go do that. Even if they did, you still got factories in Iowa, a bunch in Mexico, other [00:17:00] places. You have all these assets kind of spread all over the place. It’s not like running an automotive dealership on the corner, you’re, you’re running a major operation with thousands of employees and producing these massively complex blades. There’s only a handful of companies that would be even possible that we could acquire that and run it with any competency at all right now.  Joel Saxum: So does oak tree being, being that oak tree is the debtor in possession and if, if possible with, or if possible, if it, if it rolls this way with the plan toggle, right. Where they would basically, the cell would convert them into equity holdings and they would own it. Are they the gatekeepers to who can bid? Like do they control ge? You can bid vest as you can bid? Or does the court control that?  Allen Hall: The court controls all of that. So it’s all part of the chapter 11 proceedings. Anybody can walk up and put a bid in. And now whether it qualifies or not is, is a good question, but anybody can walk up and, [00:18:00] and make a claim for what remains. There’s, there is a process that will happen there, but who else would it be? Nordex? I don’t think so. Is is Vesta gonna buy more? I don’t think so. So the concern is obviously for TPI, what is it gonna look like going forward? If you have purchased Vestus turbines or GE Renova turbines, are you gonna have the blades that you have purchased in time? Great questions to ask. I think on the other side is if you do own GE Renova or Vestus turbines and they’re made by TPI, where the technical aspects lie, what do you do where, what should you be thinking about if you’re a large operator of some of these turbines? How I should be planning for the future here? What are you thinking about?  Joel Saxum: So let’s divide it into two categories. One of them is turbine blades on order supply chain, supply [00:19:00] chain, and the other one’s being turbine blades already in production or received order.  Yolanda Padron: I’m not sure that we can fully look at them separately though, right? Because if you have them, if, if they’re yours and they’re under a service agreement or something. Eventually you might be in the queue for a replacement that you need, right? That your OEM would be on the hook for.  Joel Saxum: That raises another question there then does. I don’t, ’cause I don’t know this. Maybe you do. Alan does a bankruptcy qualify as a force majeure event?  Allen Hall: Not in terms of like lightning would be, but, but in terms, yeah, sure.  Joel Saxum: Yeah. But can they claim force majeure and be like, uh, out of our control? So now the turbine supply agreements are, you know, basically have to be rewritten. Timelines have to be rewritten. Yolanda, to your point, if we have a blade that we need for production, am I not responsible for LDS anymore because the blade manufacturer went into, uh, bankruptcy?  Yolanda Padron: I think it’d be more of [00:20:00] either Now you’re not just. In the queue for TPI Blades. But you’re in the queue for whatever we can retrofit there, right? That they could put in.  Joel Saxum: Yeah. The alternative is you need a whole set though, right? So if we say like, I need a blade from TPI, or I need an entire set of LM blades, now you’re triple the cost. Who has to pay for that?  Yolanda Padron: I really would hope that it, they wouldn’t go this route, but I think some OEMs would just hit liquidated damages. And stop.  Allen Hall: That’s what I think too. I mean, we’ve seen that happen with some of the OEMs. Is that the, uh, LDS and that’s it. There is nothing going forward. They’re, they’re fine doing that. That’s the only play that they have. I, I am deeply concerned what GE Renova is about to do in the wind business because of their gas turbine and everything else are so profitable. And they just announced that the wind business in 2026 is not likely to make any. Positive cash flow. [00:21:00] It, the, the discussion inside of GE Renova, at least at the sort of the boardroom level, must be really tense because in, in theory, they could buy TPIs assets in the factories and run them, but they just went through essentially a liquidation process with lm. Do they want to run another company, especially when they’re bleeding cash in that particular business? I think the answer GE historically has been no. If we’re not number one or number two, we’re getting the heck outta that business. That was the Jack Welsh of running ge, and anybody that worked for GE knew that loud and clear because they said it all the time. Those same people that grew up in that GE culture are now in the boardroom, and what are they likely to do? They’re likely to follow that advice. Because it’s just what they know. It’s, it’s, it’s, it’s the school they went to. Are they gonna change their mind and say, A longer term play is wind [00:22:00] and we wanna stay in it and we’re willing to lose a couple hundred million dollars a year for the next couple of years, and now we’re gonna run a Blade Factory with several thousand employees down in Mexico. I just don’t see it. Uh, not that I could be totally wrong about that. Probably am. Uh, today, sitting at the beginning of January of 2026, I don’t think GE Renova wants to be in the blade manufacturing business if they can at all avoid it.  Yolanda Padron: I think it’s important for owners to start thinking a lot more about educating their internal teams on what they can. So if it’s through, if you know people within your OEM that you can trust and that can help you. Learn how to self-service some of your blades. That would be great if it’s through ISPs that you can trust. If it’s a hodgepodge of items. I think it’s really important for owners right now to start building that up because it will take a while. I. And, and the risk [00:23:00] is there.  Allen Hall: That wraps up another episode of the Uptime Wind Energy Podcast, and if today’s discussion sparked any questions or ideas, we’d love to hear from you. Reach out to us on LinkedIn and don’t forget to subscribe so you never miss an episode. And if you found value in today’s conversation, please leave us overview. It really helps other wind energy professionals discover the show. And we will catch you here next week on the Uptime Wind Energy Podcast.

Allen delivers the 2025 state of the wind industry. For the first time, wind and solar produced more electricity than coal worldwide. The US added 36% more wind capacity than last year, Australia’s market hit $2 billion, and China extended its 25-year streak of double-digit growth. But 2025 also brought challenges: the Trump administration froze offshore wind projects, Britain paid billions to curtail turbines, and global wind growth hit its lowest rate in two decades. Sign up now for Uptime Tech News, our weekly email update on all things wind technology. This episode is sponsored by Weather Guard Lightning Tech. Learn more about Weather Guard’s StrikeTape Wind Turbine LPS retrofit. Follow the show on Facebook, YouTube, Twitter, Linkedin and visit Weather Guard on the web. And subscribe to Rosemary Barnes’ YouTube channel here. Have a question we can answer on the show? Email us! Allen Hall: 2025, the year the wind industry will never forget. Let me tell you about a year of records and reversals of triumphs and a bunch of turbulence. First, the good news. Renewable energy has done something historic for the first time ever. Wind and solar produce more electricity than coal worldwide. The energy think tank embers as global electricity. Demand grew 2.6% in the first half of the year. Solar generation jumped by 31%, wind rose nearly 8%. Together they covered 83% of all new demand. Coal share of global electricity fell to 33.1%. Renewables rose to 34.3. A [00:01:00]pivotal moment they called it. And in the United States, turbines kept turning wood. McKinsey and the American Clean Power Association report America will add more than seven gigawatts of wind this year. That is 36% more than last year in the five year outlook. 46 gigawatts of new capacity through 2029. Even Arkansas by its first utility scale wind project online through Cordio crossover Wind, the powering market remains strong. 18 projects will drive 2.5 gigawatts of capacity additions over the next three years. And down under the story is equally bright. Australia’s wind energy market reached $2 billion in 2024 by. 2033 is expected to reach $6.7 billion a growth rate of nearly 15% per year. In July, Australian regulators streamlined permitting for wind farms, and in September remote mining operations signed [00:02:00] long-term wind power agreements while the world was building. China was dominating when power output in China is on track for more than 10% growth for the 25th year in a row. That’s right, 25 years in a row. China now accounts for more than 41% of all global wind power production a record. And China’s wind component exports up more than 20%. This year, over $4 billion shipped mainly to Europe and Asia, but 2025 was not smooth sailing, as we all know. In fact, global wind generation is on track for its smallest growth rate in more than 20 years. Four straight months of year over year. Declines in Europe, five months of declines in North America and even Asia registered rare drops in September and October. The policy wind shifted too in the United States. The Trump administration froze offshore wind project work in the Atlantic. The interior [00:03:00] Department directed five large scale projects off the East Coast to suspend activities for at least 90 days. The Bureau of Ocean Energy Management cited classified national security information. That’s right. Classified information. Sure. Kirk Lippold, the former commander of the USS Coal. Ask the question on everyone’s mind. What has changed in the threat environment? Through his knowledge, nothing. Democratic. Governors of Connecticut, Rhode Island, Massachusetts, and New York issued a joint statement. They called the pause, a lump of dirty coal for the holiday season, for American workers, for consumers, for investors. Meanwhile, in Britain, another kind of problem emerged the cost of turning off wind farms when the grid cannot cope, hit 1.5 billion pounds. This year, octopus Energy, Britain’s biggest household supplier is tracking it payments to Wind farms to switch off 380 [00:04:00]million pounds. The cost of replacing that wasted power with. Gas 1.08 billion pounds. Sam Richards of Britain remade called it a catastrophic failure of the energy system. Households are paying the price. He said, we are throwing away British generated electricity and firing up expensive gas plants instead. In Europe, the string of dismal wind power auctions also continued some in Germany and Denmark received no bids at all. Key developers pushed for faster permitting and better auction terms. Orsted and Vestas led the charge. And in Japan soaring cost estimates cause Mitsubishi to pull out of three offshore projects. Projects that were slated to start operations by 2030. Gone. The Danish shore Adapting Ted, the world’s largest offshore wind developer sold a 55% stake in its greater Chiang two offshore Wind Farm in Taiwan. The Buyer [00:05:00] Life Insurance Company Cafe, the price around $789 million. With that deal, Ted has signed divestments, totaling 33 billion Danish crowns during 2025. The company is trying to restore investor confidence amid rising costs, supply chain disruptions, and uncertainty from American policy shifts. Meanwhile, the International Energy Agency is sounding the alarm director, Fadi Beal says Solar will account for 80% of renewable capacity growth through the end of the decade. And that sounds about right. So it’s got a bunch of catch up to do, but policymakers need to pay close attention. Supply chain, security grid integration challenges and the rapid rise of renewables is putting increasing pressure on electricity systems worldwide. Curtailment and negative price events are appearing in more markets, and the agency is calling for urgent [00:06:00] investments in grid energy storage and flexible generation. And what about those tariffs? We keep reading about wood McKenzie projects. Tariffs will drive up American turbine costs in 2026 in total US onshore wind capital expenditure is projected to increase 5% through 2029. US wind turbine pricing is experiencing obviously unprecedented uncertainty. Domestic manufacturing over capacity would normally push down prices, but tariff exposure on raw materials is pushing them up. And that’s by design of course. So where does this leave us? The numbers tell the story. Renewables overtook Coal. America will install 36% more turbines. This year, Australia’s market is booming. China continues. Its 25 year streak of double digit growth, but wind generation growth worldwide is at its lowest in two decades. And policy reversals in America have stalled. [00:07:00] Offshore development and Britain is paying billions to turn off turbines because the grid cannot handle the power. Europe’s auctions are struggling and Japan’s developers are pulling back and yet. The turbines keep turning. You see, wind energy has had good years and bad years, but 20 25, 20 25 may be one of the worst. The toxic Stew Reuters called it major policy reversals, corporate upheaval, subpar generation in key markets, and yet the industry sees reasons to expect improvement changes to auction incentives, supply chain adjustments, growing demand for power from all sources. The sheer scale of China’s expansion means global wind production will likely keep hitting new highs, even if growth grinds to a halt in America, even if it stays weak. In Europe, 2025 was a year of records and reversals. The thing to remember through all of this [00:08:00] is wind power is low cost power. It is not a nascent industry. And it is time to deliver more electricity, more consistency. Everyone within the sound of my voice is making a difference. Keep it up. You are changing the future for the better. 2025 was a rough year and I’m looking forward to 2026 and that’s the state of the wind industry for December 29th, 2025. Have a great new year.

Allen, Joel, Rosemary, and Yolanda break down the TPI Composites bankruptcy fallout. Vestas is acquiring TPI’s Mexico and India operations while a UAE company picks up the Turkish factories. That leaves GE in a tough spot with no clear path to blade manufacturing. Plus the crew discusses blade scarcity, FSA availability floors, and whether a new blade manufacturer could emerge. Sign up now for Uptime Tech News, our weekly email update on all things wind technology. This episode is sponsored by Weather Guard Lightning Tech. Learn more about Weather Guard’s StrikeTape Wind Turbine LPS retrofit. Follow the show on Facebook, YouTube, Twitter, Linkedin and visit Weather Guard on the web. And subscribe to Rosemary Barnes’ YouTube channel here. Have a question we can answer on the show? Email us! Allen Hall: [00:00:00] Welcome to the Uptime Wind Energy Podcast. I’m your host, Allen Hall. I’ve got Yolanda Padron and Joel Saxum in Texas. And Rosemary Barnes is back from her long Vacation in Australia and TPI. Composites is big in the news this week, everybody, because they’re in bankruptcy hearings and they are selling off parts of the business. Vestas is, at least according to News Reports positioned to acquire. A couple of the LLCs down in Mexico. So there’s uh, two of them, TPI in Mexico, five LLC, and TPI in Mexico, six LLC. There are other LLCs, of course involved with this down in Mexico. So they’re buying, not sure exactly what the assets are, but probably a couple of the factories in which their blades were being manufactured in. Uh, this. Is occurring because Vestas stepped in. They were trying to have an auction and Vestas stepped forward and just ended up buying these two LLCs. [00:01:00] Other things that are happening here, Joel, is that, uh, TPI evidently sold their Turkish division. Do you recall to who they sold? That, uh, part of the Joel Saxum: business too, two companies involved in that, that were TPI Turkey, uh, and that was bought by a company called XCS composites. Uh, and they are out of the United Arab Emirates, so I believe they’re either going to be Abu Dhabi or Dubai based. Uh, but they took over the tube wind blade manufacturing plants in Isme, uh, also a field service and inspection repair business. And around 2,700 employees, uh, from the Turkish operation. So that happened just, just after, I mean, it was a couple weeks after the bankruptcy claim, uh, went through here in August, uh, in the States. So it went August bankruptcy for TPI, September, all the Turkish operations were bought and now we’ve got Vestas swooping in and uh, taking a bunch of the Mexican operations. Allen Hall: Right. And [00:02:00] Vestas is also taking TPI composites India. Which is a part of the business that is not in bankruptcy, uh, that’s a, a separate business, a separate, basically LLC incorporation Over in India, the Vestus is going to acquire, so they’re gonna acquire three separate things in this transaction. The question everybody’s asking today after seeing this Vestus move is, what is GE doing? Because, uh, GE Renova has a lot of blades manufactured by TPI down in Mexico. No word on that. And you would think if, if TPI is auctioning off assets that GE renova would be at the front of the line, but that’s not what we’re hearing on the ground. Joel Saxum: Yeah, I mean it’s, the interesting part of this thing is for Vestas, TPI was about 35% of their blade capacity for manufacturing in 2024. If their 30, if, if Vestas was 35%, then GE had to be 50%. There [00:03:00] demand 60. So Vesta is making a really smart move here by basically saying, uh, we’ve gotta lock down our supply chain for blades. We gotta do something. So we need to do this. GE is gonna be the odd man out because, I mean, I think it would be a, a cold day in Denmark if Vestas was gonna manufacture blades for ge. Allen Hall: Will the sale price that Vest has paid for this asset show up in the bankruptcy? Hearings or disclosures? I think that it would, I haven’t seen it yet, but eventually it’ll, it must show up, right? All, all the bankruptcy hearings and transactions are, they have an overseer essentially, what happens to, so TPI can’t purchase or sell anything without an, um, getting approved by the courts, so that’ll eventually be disclosed. Uh, the Turkish sale will be, I would assume, would be disclosed. Also really curious to see what the asset value. Was for those factories. Joel Saxum: So the Turkish sale is actually public knowledge right now, and [00:04:00] that is, lemme get the number here to make sure I get it right. 92.9 million Euros. Uh, but of, of course TPI laden with a bunch of non-convertible and convertible debt. So a ton of that money went right down to debt. Uh, but to be able to purchase that. They had to assu, uh, XCS composites in Turkey, had to assume debt as is, uh, under the bankruptcy kind of proceedings. So I would assume that Vestas is gonna have to do the same thing, is assume the debt as is to take these assets over and, uh, and assets. We don’t know what it is yet. We don’t know if it’s employees, if it’s operations, if it’s ip, if it’s just factories. We don’t know what’s all involved in it. Um, but like you said, because. TPI being a publicly traded company in the United States, they have to file all this stuff with SEC. Allen Hall: Well, they’ll, they’re be delisted off of. Was it, they were Joel Saxum: in Nasdaq? Is that where they were listed? The India stuff that could be private. You may ne we may not ever hear about what happened. Valuation there. Allen Hall: Okay, so what is the, the [00:05:00] future then for wind blade production? ’cause TPI was doing a substantial part of it for the world. I mean, outside of China, it’s TPI. And LM a little bit, right? LM didn’t have the capacity, I don’t think TPI that TPI does or did. It puts Joel Saxum: specifically GE in a tight spot, right? Because GEs, most of their blades were if it was built to spec or built to print. Built to spec was designed, uh, by LM and built by lm. But now LM as we have seen in the past months year, has basically relinquished themselves of all of their good engineering, uh, and ability to iterate going forward. So that’s kind of like dwindling to an end. TPI also a big side of who makes blades for ge if Vestas is gonna own the majority of their capacity, Vestas isn’t gonna make blades for ge. So GEs going to be looking at what can we, what can we still build with lm? And then you have the kind of the, the odd ducks there. You have the Aris, [00:06:00] you have the MFG, um, I mean Sonoma is out there. This XCS factory is there still in Turkey. Um, you may see some new players pop up. Uh, I don’t know. Um, we’ll see. I mean, uh, Rosemary, what’s, what’s your take? Uh, you guys are starting to really ramp up down in Australia right now and are gonna be in the need of blades in general with this kind of shakeup. Rosemary Barnes: What do we say? My main concern is. Around the service of the blades that we’ve already got. Um, and when I talk to people that I know at LM or XLM, my understanding is that those parts of the organization are still mostly intact. So I actually don’t expect any big changes there. Not to say that the status quo. Good enough. It’s not like, like every single OEM whose, um, FSAs that I work with, uh, support is never good enough. But, um, [00:07:00] it shouldn’t get any worse anyway. And then for upcoming projects, yeah, I, I don’t know. I mean, I guess it’s gonna be on a case by case basis. Uh, I mean, it always was when you got a new, a new project, you need a whole bunch of blades. It was always a matter of figuring out which factory they were going to come from and if they had capacity. It’ll be the same. It’s just that then instead of, you know, half a dozen factories to choose from, there’s like, what, like one or two. So, um, yeah, I, that’s, that’s my expectation of what’s gonna happen. I presumably ge aren’t selling turbines that they have no capability to make blades for. Um, so I, I guess they’re just gonna have a lot less sales. That’s the only real way I can make it work. Allen Hall: GE has never run a Blade factory by themselves. They’ve always had LM or somebody do it, uh, down in Brazil or TPI in Mexico or wherever. Uh, are we thinking that GE Renova is not gonna run a Blade Factory? Is that the thought, or, or is [00:08:00] that’s not in the cards either. Rosemary Barnes: I don’t think it’s that easy to just, just start running a Blade Factory. I mean, I know that GE had blade design capabilities. I used to design the blades that TPI would make. So, um, that part of it. Sure. Um, they can, they can still do that, but it’s not, yeah, it’s, it’s not like you just buy a Blade factory and like press start on the factory and then the, you know, production line just starts off and blades come out the other end. Like there is a lot of a, a lot of knowhow needed if that was something that they wanted to do. That should have been what they started doing from day one after they bought lm. You know, that was the opportunity that they had to become, you know, a Blade factory owner. They could have started to, you know, make, um, have GE. Take up full ownership of the, the blade factories and how that all worked. But instead, they kept on operating like pretty autonomously without that many [00:09:00] changes at the factory level. Like if they were to now say, oh, you know, hey, it’s, uh, we really want to. Have our own blade factories and make blades. It’s just like, what the hell were you doing for the last, was it like seven years or something? Like you, you could easily have done what? And now you haven’t made it as hard for yourselves as possible. So like I’m not ruling out that that’s what they’re gonna try and do, because like I said, I don’t think it’s been like executed well, but. My God, it’s like even stupid of the whole situation. If that’s where we end up with them now scrambling to build from scratch blade, um, manufacturing capability because there’s Yolanda Padron: already a blade scarcity, right? Like at least in the us I don’t know if you guys are seeing it in, in Australia as well, but there’s a blade scarcity for these GE blades, right? So you’re, they kind of put themselves in an even more tough spot by just now. You, you don’t have access to a lot of these TPI factories written in theory. From what we’re seeing. You mean to get like replacement blades? Yeah. So like for, for issues? Yeah. New [00:10:00] construction issues under FSA, that, Rosemary Barnes: yeah. I mean, we’ve always waited a, a long time for new blades. Like it’s never great. If you need a new blade, you’re always gonna be waiting six months, maybe 12 months. So that’s always been the case, but now we are seeing delays of that. Maybe, maybe sometimes longer, but also it’s like, oh well. We can’t replace, like, for like, you’re gonna be getting a, a different kind of blade. Um, that will work. Um, but you know, so that is fine, except for that, that means you can’t do a single blade replacement anymore. Now, what should have been a single blade replacement might be a full set replacement. And so it does start to really, um, yeah. Mess things up and like, yeah, it’s covered by the FSA, like that’s on them to buy the three blades instead of one, but. It does matter because, you know, if they’re losing money on, um, managing your wind farm, then it, it is gonna lead to worse outcomes for you because, you know, they’re gonna have to skimp and scrape where they [00:11:00] can to, you know, like, um, minimize their losses. So I, I don’t think it’s, it’s, it’s Yolanda Padron: not great. Yeah. And if you’re running a wind farm, you have other stakeholders too, right? It’s not like you’re running it just for yourself. So having all that downtime from towers down for a year. Because you can’t get blades on your site. Like it’s just really not great. Rosemary Barnes: Yeah, and I mean, there’s flaws on there. Like they’ve got an availability guarantee. Then, you know, below that they do have to, um, pay for that, those losses. But there’s a flaw on that. So once you know, you, you blast through the floor of your availability, then you know, that is on the owner. Now it’s not on the, um, service provider. So it’s definitely. Something that, yeah, there’s lots of things where you might think, oh, I don’t have to worry about my blades ’cause I’ve got an F, SA, but you know, that’s just one example where, okay, you will, you will start worrying if they, they yeah. Fall through the floor of their availability guarantee. Joel Saxum: Two questions that pop up in my mind from this one, the first one, the first one is [00:12:00] directly from Alan. You and I did a webinar, we do so many of ’em yesterday, and it was about, it was in the nor in North America, ferc, so. They have new icing readiness, uh, reporting you, so, so basically like if you’re on the, if you’re connected to the grid, you’re a wind farm or solar farm and you have an icing event, you need to explain to them why you had an outage, um, and why, what you’re doing about it. Or if you’re not doing something about it, you have to justify it. You have to do all these things to say. Hey, some electrons weren’t flowing into the grid. There’s certain levels. It’s much more complicated than this, but electrons weren’t flowing into the grid because of an issue. We now have to report to FERC about this. So is there a stage when a FERC or uh, some other regulatory agency starts stepping into the wind industry saying like, someone’s gotta secure a supply chain here. ’cause they’re already looking at things when electrons are on the grid. Someone’s got a secure supply chain here so we can ensure that [00:13:00]these electrons are gonna get on the grid. Could, can something like that happen or was, I mean, I mean, of course that’s, to me, in my opinion, that’s a lot of governmental overreach, but could we see that start to come down the line like, Hey, we see from an agency’s perspective, we see some problems here. What are you doing to shore this up? Allen Hall: Oh, totally. Right. I, I think the industry in general has an issue. This is not an OEM specific problem. At the minute, if this is a industry-wide problem, there seems to be more dispersed. Manufacturers are gonna be popping up. And when we were in Scotland, uh, we learned a lot more about that. Right, Joel? So the industry has more diversification. I, I, here’s, here’s my concern at the minute, so. For all these blade manufacturers that we would otherwise know off the top of our heads. Right. Uh, lm, TPI, uh, Aris down in Brazil. The Vestus manufacturing facilities, the Siemens manufacturing [00:14:00] facilities. Right. You, you’re, you’re in this place where. You know, everybody’s kind of connected up the chain, uh, to a large OEM and all this made sense. You know, who was rebuilding your blades next year and the year down, two years down the road. Today you don’t, so you don’t know who owns that company. You don’t know how the manager’s gonna respond. Are you negotiating with a company that you can trust’s? Gonna be there in two or three years because you may have to wait that long to get blades delivered. I don’t know. I think that it, it put a lot of investment, uh, companies in a real quandary of whether they wanna proceed or not based upon the, what they is, what they would perceive to be the stability of these blade companies. That’s what I would think. I, I, Vestas is probably the best suited at the minute, besides Siemens. You know, Vestas is probably best suited to have the most perceived reliability capability. Control, Joel Saxum: but they have their own [00:15:00] blade factories already, right? So if they buy the TPI ones, they’re just kind of like they can do some copy pasting to get the the things in place. And to be honest with you, Vesta right now makes the best blades out there, in my opinion, least amount of serial defects. Remove one, remove one big issue from the last couple Allen Hall: years. But I think all the OEMs have problems. It’s a question of how widely known those problems are. I, I don’t think it’s that. I think the, the, the. When you talk to operators and, and they do a lot of shopping on wind turbines, what they’ll tell you generally is vestus is about somewhere around 20% higher in terms of cost to purchase a turbine from them. And Vestus is gonna put on a, a full service agreement of some sort that’s gonna run roughly 30 years. So there’s a lot of overhead that comes with buying a, a Vestas turbine. Yes. You, you get the quality. Yes. You get the name. Yes, you get the full service agreement, which you may or [00:16:00] may not really want over time. Uh, that’s a huge decision. But as pieces are being removed from the board of what you can possibly do, there’s it, it’s getting narrow or narrow by the minute. So it, it’s either a vestus in, in today’s world, like right today, I think we should talk about this, but it’s either Vestus or Nordic. Those are the two that are being decided upon. Mostly by a lot of the operators today. Joel Saxum: That’s true. We’re, and we just saw Nordex, just inked a one gigawatt deal with Alliant Energy, uh, just last week. And that’s new because Alliant has traditionally been a GE buyer. Right. They have five or six ge, two X wind farms in the, in the middle of the United States, and now they’ve secured a deal with Nordex for a gigawatt. Same thing we saw up at Hydro Quebec. Right. Vestas and Nordex are the only ones that qualify for that big, and that’s supposed to be like a 10 gigawatt tender over time. Right. But the, so it brings me to my, I guess my other question, I was thinking about this be [00:17:00] after the FERC thing was, does do, will we see a new blade manufacturer Allen Hall: pop Joel Saxum: up? Allen Hall: No, I don’t think you see a new one. I think you see an acquisition, uh, a transfer of assets to somebody else to run it, but that is really insecure. I, I always think when you’re buying distressed assets and you think you’re gonna run it better than the next guy that. Is rare in industry to do that. Think about the times you’ve seen that happen and it doesn’t work out probably more than 75% of the time. It doesn’t work out. It lasts a year or two or three, and they had the same problems they had when the original company was there. You got the same people inside the same building, building the same product, what do you think is magically gonna change? Right? You have this culture problem or a a already established culture, you’re not likely to change that unless you’re willing to fire, you know, a third of the staff to, to make changes. I don’t see anybody here doing that at the minute because. Finding wind blade technicians, manufacturing people is [00:18:00] extremely hard to do, to find people that are qualified. So you don’t wanna lose them. Joel Saxum: So this is why I say, this is why I pose the question, because in my mind, in in recent wind history, the perfect storm for a new blade manufacturer is happening right now. And the, and the why I say this is there is good engineers on the streets available. Now washing them of their old bad habits and the cultures and those things, that’s a monumental task. That’s not possible. Allen Hall: Rosemary worked at a large blade manufacturer and it has a culture to it. That culture really didn’t change even after they were acquired by a large OEM. The culture basically Rosemary Barnes: remained, they bizarrely didn’t try and change that culture, like they didn’t try to make it a GE company so that it wasn’t dur, it was wasn’t durable. You know, they, they could have. Used that as a shortcut to gaining, um, blade manufacturing capabilities and they didn’t. And that was a, I think it was a choice. I don’t think it’s an inevitability. It’s never easy to go in and change a, a culture, [00:19:00] but it is possible to at least, you know, get parts of it. Um, the, the knowledge should, you should be able to transfer and then get rid of the old culture once you’ve done that, you know, like, uh. Yeah, like you, you bring it in and suck out all the good stuff and spit out the rest. They didn’t do that. Joel Saxum: The opportunity here is, is that you’ve got a, you’ve got people, there’s gonna be a shortage of blade capacity, right? So if you are, if you are going to start up a blade manufacturing facility, you, if you’re clever enough, you may be able to get the backlog of a bunch of orders to get running without having to try to figure it out as you go. Yolanda Padron: I feel like I’d almost make the case that like the blade repair versus replace gap or the business cases is getting larger and larger now, right? So I feel like there’s more of a market for like some sort of holistic maintenance team to come in and say, Hey, I know this OEM hasn’t been taking care of your blades really well, but here are these retrofits that have proven to be [00:20:00]to work on your blades and solve these issues and we’ll get you up and running. Rosemary Barnes: We are seeing more and more of of that. The thing that makes it hard for that to be a really great solution is that they don’t have the information that they need. They have to reverse engineer everything, and that is. Very challenging because like you can reverse engineer what a blade is, but it doesn’t mean that, you know, um, exactly like, because a, the blade that you end up with is not an optimized blade in every location, right? There’s some parts that are overbuilt and um, sometimes some parts that are underbuilt, which gives you, um, you know, serial issues. But, so reverse engineering isn’t necessarily gonna make it safe, and so that does mean that yeah, like anyone coming in with a really big, significant repair that doesn’t go through the OEM, it’s a, it’s a risk. It, it’s always a risk that they have, you know, like there’s certain repairs where you can reverse engineer enough to know that you’re safe. But any really big [00:21:00] one, um, or anything that involves multiple components, um, is. Is a bit of a gamble if it doesn’t go through the OEM. Joel Saxum: No, but so between, I guess between the comments there, Yolanda and Rosemary, are we then entering the the golden age of opportunity for in independent engineering experts? Rosemary Barnes: I believe so. I’m staking, staking my whole business on it. Allen Hall: I think you have to be careful here, everybody, because the problem is gonna be Chinese blade manufacturers. If you wanna try to establish yourself as a blade manufacturer and you’re taking an existing factory, say, say you bought a TPI factory in Turkey or somewhere, and you thought, okay, I, I know how to do this better than everybody else. That could be totally true. However, the OEMs are not committed to buying blades from you and your competition isn’t the Blade Factory in Denmark or in Colorado or North Dakota, or in Mexico or Canada, Spain, wherever your competition is when, [00:22:00] uh, the OEM says, I can buy these blades for 20 to 30% less money in China, and that’s what you’re gonna be held as, as a standard. That is what’s gonna kill most of these things with a 25% tariff on top. Right? Exactly. But still they’re still bringing Joel Saxum: blades in. That’s why I’m saying a local blade manufacturer, Rosemary Barnes: I think it’s less the case. That everyone thinks about China, although maybe a little bit unconventional opinion a about China, they certainly can manufacture blades with, uh, as good a quality as anyone. I mean, obviously all of the, um, Danish, uh, American manufacturers have factories in China that are putting out excellent quality blades. So I’m not trying to say that they dunno how to make a good blade, but with their. New designs, you know, and the really cheap ones. There’s a couple of, um, there’s a couple of reasons for that that mean that I don’t think that it just slots really well into just replacing all of the rest of the world’s, um, wind turbines. The first is that there are a lot of [00:23:00] subsidies in China. Surely there can only continue so long as their economy is strong. You know, like if their economy slows down, like to what extent are they gonna be able to continue to, um, continue with these subsidies? I would be a little bit nervous about buying an asset that I needed support for the next 30 years from a company like. That ecosystem. Then the other thing is that, um, that development, they move really fast because they take some shortcuts. There’s no judgment there. In fact, from a develop product development point of view, that is absolutely the best way to move really fast and get to a really good product fast. It will be pervasive all the way through every aspect of it. Um, non-Chinese companies are just working to a different standard, which slows them down. But also means that along the way, like I would be much happier with a half developed, um, product from a non-Chinese manufacturer than a half developed product from a Chinese manufacturer. The end point, like if China can keep on going long enough with this, [00:24:00] you know, like just really move fast, make bold decisions, learn everything you can. If they can continue with that long enough to get to a mature product, then absolutely they will just smash the rest of the world to pieces. So for me, it’s a matter of, um, does their economy stay strong enough to support that level of, uh, competition? Allen Hall: Well, no, that’s a really good take. It’s an engineering take, and I think the decision is made in the procurement offices of the OEMs and when they start looking at the numbers and trying to determine profitability. That extra 20% savings they can get on blades made in China comes into play quite often. This is why they’re having such a large discussion about Chinese manufacturers coming into the eu. More broadly is the the Vestas and the Siemens CAAs and even the GE Re Novas. No, it’s big time trouble because the cost structure is lower. It just is, and I. [00:25:00] As much as I would love to see Vestas and Siemens and GE Renova compete on a global stage, they can’t at the moment. That’s evident. I don’t think it’s a great time to be opening any new Blade Factory. If you’re not an already established company, it’s gonna be extremely difficult. Wind Energy O and M Australia is back February 17th and 18th at Melbourne’s Pullman on the park. Which is a great hotel. We built this year’s agenda directly from the conversations we’ve had in 2025 and tackling serial defects, insurance pressures, blade repairs, and the operational challenges that keeps everybody up at night around the world. So we have two days of technical sessions, interactive roundtables and networking that actually moves the industry for. Forward. And if you’re interested in attending this, you need to go to WMA 2020 six.com. It’s WOMA 2020 six.com. Rosemary, a lot of, uh, great events gonna happen at. W 2026. Why don’t [00:26:00] you give us a little highlight. Parlet iss gonna be there. Rosemary Barnes: Parlow is gonna be there. I mean, a highlight for me is always getting together with the, the group. And also, I mean, I just really love the size of the event that uh, every single person who’s there is interested in the same types of things that you are interested in. So the highlight for me is, uh, the conversations that I don’t know that I’m gonna have yet. So looking forward to that. But we are also. Making sure that we’ve got a really great program. We’ve got a good mix of Australian speakers and a few people bringing international experience as well. There’s also a few side events that are being organized, like there’s an operators only forum, which unfortunately none of us will be able to enter because we’re not operators, but that is gonna be really great for. For all of them to be able to get together and talk about issues that they have with no, nobody else in the room. So if, if you are an operator and you’re not aware of that, then get in touch and we’ll pass on your details to make sure you can join. Um, yeah, and people just, you know, [00:27:00] taking the opportunities to catch up with clients, you know, for paddle load. Most or all of our clients are, are gonna be there. So it is nice to get off Zoom and um, yeah, actually sit face to face and discuss things in person. So definitely encourage everyone to try and arrange those sorts of things while they’re there. Joel Saxum: You know, one of the things I think is really important about this event is that, uh, we’re, we’re continuing the conversation from last year, but a piece of feedback last year was. Fantastic job with the conversation and helping people with o and m issues and giving us things we can take back and actually integrate into our operations right away. But then a week or two or three weeks after the event, we had those things, but the conversation stopped. So this year we’re putting some things in place. One of ’em being like Rosemary was talking about the private operator forum. Where there’s a couple of operators that have actually taken the reins with this thing and they wanna put this, they wanna make this group a thing where they’re want to have quarterly meetings and they want to continue this conversation and knowledge share and boost that whole Australian market in the wind [00:28:00]side up right? Rising waters floats all boats, and we’re gonna really take that to the next level this year at Allen Hall: WMA down in Melbourne. That’s why I need a register now at Wilma 2020 six.com because the industry needs solutions. Speeches. That wraps up another episode of the Uptime Wind Energy Podcast. Thanks for joining us. We appreciate all the feedback and support we received from the wind industry. If today’s discussion sparked any questions or ideas, we’d love to hear from you. Just reach out to us on LinkedIn and please don’t forget to subscribe so you’d never miss an episode. For Joel Rosemary and Yolanda, I’m Allen Hall. We’ll catch you next week on the Uptime Wind Energy Podcast.

Allen and Joel are joined by Gregory Kocsis, lifting technology expert, to discuss the gap between European and US crane operations. They cover multi-brand blade handling tools, up-tower cranes, and why the aftermarket service sector is driving innovation in major component replacements. Sign up now for Uptime Tech News, our weekly email update on all things wind technology. This episode is sponsored by Weather Guard Lightning Tech. Learn more about Weather Guard’s StrikeTape Wind Turbine LPS retrofit. Follow the show on Facebook, YouTube, Twitter, Linkedin and visit Weather Guard on the web. And subscribe to Rosemary Barnes’ YouTube channel here. Have a question we can answer on the show? Email us! Welcome to Uptime Spotlight, shining light on wind. Energy’s brightest innovators. This is the Progress Powering tomorrow. Allen Hall: Greg, welcome to the program. Joel Saxum: Thank you guys. Nice to meet you. Allen Hall: we have a lot to talk about today. there’s so many heavy lifts. Complex lifts on ships, lifts on, and mountaintops lifts in really odd places. it’s getting more complicated as we go along, and obviously Joel and I talked to a lot of operators and one of the things they complain about more recently is, Hey, we’re having trouble with lifts and we’re having damage that we didn’t have in the past. And it’s complicated, and the access to cranes is more complicated. Everything’s become more complicated. What are some of the issues that you see on the other end of the spectrum, being in that [00:01:00] business? Gregory Kocsis: Yeah. Basically what I see that, so I, I work both, in the last decade in both US and Europe. and I can see that there’s no lack of technologies. there’s a lot of tech that’s, solving a lot of issues. but mostly what you can see that there’s a slight gap. I would say that, There’s two, two prong. the US it seems, some of the farm are really big, and that’s good for scale. but the, technologies are a little bit behind, I would say 10, 15 years sometimes. so that also means that the. The solutions that they use to, to change a blade or change a gearbox or how to lower a full, rotor, it’s always, lower tech and based on practicalities. Joel Saxum: Greg, why do you think that is? Do you think it’s just simply because, yeah, like the eu, so you’ve done a lot of work in the eu, of course, onshore, offshore, and globally. But in the EU it [00:02:00] seems like tighter quarters maybe, harder to get around some of the wind farms. Is, does that drive some of the difference in innovation? Because like you said, you there’s the innovation is there, the tooling is there. The EU has been doing it for a while. It’s just that in the states it seems like we’re more, for lack of a better term, like agricultural about things. It’s kinda Hey, this has worked for 40 years, so this is what’s how we’re gonna do it. Gregory Kocsis: Yeah, it’s always some, nature driven forces are there. So in the, in, for example, if you look at Germany, there’s, a lot of owners and the size of sites are three turbines, four turbines. And if you look at the platform that’s available around turbine is very limited. I was also on a site last year in, North Germany where basically, the truck could park right next to the turbine, but they had to clear some trees, in order to, make sure that they can put the full rotor down. Because since, since they installed it, forest grew, [00:03:00] much, much more. That was another case in, Rotterdam when we were right next to the channel and they had to, close the road. that was, docking. To the ships, back and forth every, half an hour when they had to lift the blade and it was going across the road. So when you’re in situations like this and there’s not a lot of space around the turbines, you have to start thinking that, how can we do this quicker? How can we do this safer? Because you can see that there’s a lot of planning that goes, with this as well. And then you need to make sure that, it’s more predictable, what you’re doing. So I think that. That’s one of the main driver for these technologies. if I put it simple terms that the more single crane operation for MCRs, and technologies that allow a single crane exchange, is, more pushed because of this rather than in the US where you can get maybe two smaller, cranes and then you just sling it, [00:04:00] and then take it down with two cranes. Joel Saxum: Yeah, you’ve got all kinds of space, right? Half of our wind farms are in pasture or farm fields. I wouldn’t say half. We say the majority of our wind farms are in pa pasture, and you’ve got space. The only thing limiting you is, how big the pad is really Right. And bring some cribbing in. You can basically get done with the same technology you’ve been using for cranes for years and years and with that as well, I think that, one of the things we talked about in our kind of, chat off air was. the workforce over here is a little bit different as well. So the workforce over here is sometimes a, a slinger or someone who’s holding a tagline. They got a green hard hat on, and they’re a warm body because they need people, they need help. because we’re doing things at such scale. Whereas in the eu, that’s just not the case. you’re not gonna be allowed to be around operations like that unless you’ve been thoroughly trained for a couple years. And, so, that situation with the workforce is a little bit different. So it’s almost easier to not be [00:05:00]consistently and continuously innovating and training people on new things. But with that, we’re, leaving ourselves behind in the game, right? There’s cost savings to be had, there’s time savings to be had that we’re just not harvesting. Gregory Kocsis: Yeah, absolutely. And as you mentioned that the, benefits in, Europe at these, lower scale, that also allows that, some of these smaller ISPs, they can excel what they’re doing. So they can have a crew of 10, 15 people and they focus on, some turbines, but they. When they do a campaign, that doesn’t mean that they have to go through a hundred turbines. They, do one disassembly or two disassembly or three, and it just stays at that scale. So they can actually manage to get by with the smaller crew and then really, get really experienced, on this. While I think in the US there’s quite a lot of push on. We cannot just do one. Because if you look at the size of sites, there’s [00:06:00] also one site consists between 80 and 120 turbines. And if you draw an an area that, let’s say a two hour driving range that can summarize 2000 turbines. And that also means that when something happens there, you also wanna do it at scale. So you cannot get away with 10, 15 people you need. 30, or you need five, five different crews. And then where can you get these people? How quickly can you train them? And I think that’s actually the good thing is that if we could manage to, to, pull the experience that we have in Europe, that would be good to scale it up because that’s the drawback of Europe, that when you, once you have something great. You cannot scale it up and then put a specialized tool cost above or across, 2000 turbine exchanges. Allen Hall: Is there a movement to bring more technology over from the eu, particularly because, the tools are a little more specialized, [00:07:00] but you’re reducing risk. Is it just that, the larger wind farms, be it in the United States, be it in Australia or there’s a lot of places on the planet where the wind farms are big Brazil. Another case in point, are there cases where it needs to have more technology transfer? They’re doing it a certain way. In Germany, it’s cleaner, more efficient. It takes those people to do it. It’s safer, it’s repeatable. Have we just not broached that yet? Because it doesn’t seem like there’s a lot of technology transfer in terms of lifts from the EU to many other places. Gregory Kocsis: I think the main, if you look at it that what is the driver on this is who’s responsible for an MCR operation. And if you look at the turbine’s lifetime, it’s all about. Who’s, responsible for the service. And in us, typically the turbine, especially next era, likes to buy new turbines with zero, zero involvement from the OEMs they want to [00:08:00] take over from the get go. and then typically in, in Europe we have, 10, 15 or whole, lifetime service contracts. if you look at a pie that who, takes care of the turbine? I would say that. 40% is, in the hands of, the asset owners or ISPs. and that’s also growing. So I think it was, would make that estimated that 40% will, will shift towards, 60. So that, that is the drive that I can see that more of this chunk is getting, getting bigger. And you can see players that are already globally existing, like Deutsche intech, that. That’s quite big in the US and Europe that they started to do that transition, and then take that technology that they could experience in different sites and then put this to the service side. But that’s, the difficult part, that even though that slice is [00:09:00] fairly big, it’s spread across small companies. And as a small company, if you pick one in Denmark or you pick one in the Netherlands, for them to collaborate on a project or assist on a project in US or Australia or Brazil, it’s quite costly. So then the question comes at who’s. Who’s footing the bill? is it the service company? Is it the asset owner? Is the crane company chipping in? Or how is the collaboration working? And there’s no rule of thumb that applies everywhere for these. So it’s case by case that how, big is it? How many turbines are we talking about? What kind of turbines, how far are we out in the service contract? Joel Saxum: It brings in a couple of questions, right? Why are we having this block of, lifting and crane operation innovations? Is it when the OEMs are responsible? They have, they know their say blade types, they know their hub types. They know their MCE, they know their drivetrain components, so they know and they have the designs [00:10:00] and the drawings of what their existing tooling needs would be or how to connect to them. So they’re able to build out these tools that work for them Now. Going from that to being a, say a crane company or an EPC building turbines. You are building multi-brand turbines, multi-brand sites. Not only multi-brand, but multi-unit, different technologies, different blade types. So all of your fixtures need to be different and there’s not very many universal tools out there. how do we get to the point where we can build more universal tools or more tooling that can work for everybody? Gregory Kocsis: Yeah, definitely. I think it’s. The OEMs are holding all the cards, on this one. So that, that also means that when you’re under a service contract, then that means that the OEM as you said, they have the tooling, they have the work procedure, and, in this case, if you try to imagine the MCR, it starts with. What parts do you have to shut down in the turbine? What do you have to disconnect? What do you have to plan on the ground? So [00:11:00] we could isolate it and talk just about the tools. and that was actually part of my work in the previous company that I worked at. We, tried to figure out that what kind of universal tools, can we make for these, purposes, but we also face the fact that many of the ISPs that are coming, they have the demand for, can you give me a Swiss knife that solves everything? And I have nothing from the OEM. So where should we get that? How heavy is that hub? where are the lifting points on the blade? Where is the COG? and then these lack of informations that are difficult together on the market. and the OEM is not really keen to share it either, Allen Hall: but why wouldn’t they want to share that information? Greg? I’m trying to understand where they’re coming from. It would make everybody’s life easier. And lower the cost of operation. If they had standardized lifting points, particularly like generators and gear boxes, that would make a lot of [00:12:00] sense to me. It’s like any other industry where there’s hoists and lifts that are standardized, but in wind, endeavor seems to come across that way. Everybody’s got their own specialized design, don’t they? See the revenue. They could generate from that, that, or the lower the cost that their, customers would have to, put out for lifts and repairs by making it standardized. And, where’s the IEC committees in all this and dvs of the world? Gregory Kocsis: they can definitely see the money, and I think that’s, the big issue, because they, like to earn money as well. So if you look at. What is an OEM earning on selling turbines? Its OTs. What is the OEM Earning on service contracts. That’s where the dough is. So they like these as well, and this is monetizing the market that. They like that they control these kind of information because that drives the, let’s say, the desperate customers to fall back on the [00:13:00] safety net of an OEM service contract. so it would be actually the disadvantage, in the short term, with the current business model. for the OEM if they would open up a little bit more. On the other hand, I think right now we have a lot of, asset owners that grew quite big, like EDP, next era that have, a lot of, turbines. it’s for, many years now. So some of the fleet, if you look at the old vest, V 40 sevens, I think. But NextEra has couple thousands of them. that also means that they have a lot of knowledge on these legacy turbines as well. The knowledge is there, the OEMs, but there’s no clear drive on why should they open up. and there’s a knowledge, bulk of knowledge at the service providers like Deutsche Technique. There’s a bulk of knowledge, with big, asset owners. But this is not shared across and there’s no consensus of, [00:14:00]let’s look at it, how we can, make tools that are better. Because I think the, business model is missing that. How can we make sure that everyone will benefit from this? Joel Saxum: Yeah. It was like we, we talked about off air as well. the, when we talk lifting, what also goes hand in hand with lifting is transportation fixtures. and I’ve heard stories of heavy lift vessels having to completely cut off and reel on new fixtures to ship new blades. And that just seems like what a waste of money, time and effort. of course people are making money doing that, but at the end of the day, that hurts LCOE for wind in energy, right? Because there’s just more cost put into the supply chain that doesn’t. Really need to be there or shouldn’t need to be there. so I, I would like to see us get to the stage where we’re doing, where we have some multi-brand tools or some universal tools in the lifting world. and so that’s a question I wanna ask you then, Greg. we’ve been [00:15:00] talking in generalities around some things. Can you share with us some of these tools that we may not know in the states that exist in the EU that you guys are using? Gregory Kocsis: Yeah, for sure. Yeah. The way I look at it. And then you said it’s also, connected with cranes, is that if you look at some numbers, there’s 35,000 crane call outs globally. Every year where the crane has to go on site and then some of these big things have to be lifted. Now, this is not including the offshore vessels. and that, if you look at these and break down the numbers, you have to lift something that’s big. out of these 35,000, 15,000 would be. Blades or blade bearings. So that means that you have to do something with the blade. You have to take off the blade for the blade’s sake, or you have to take off the blade for the, bearing’s sake. And then the other, tent and, thousand is for the, transformer. so the [00:16:00] generator, and the gearbox, that these are the big things. I think, as you said, blade damage is the most. Particular thing that you shouldn’t break and it’s easy to break is the blades. So that was the primary focus also, with, some of the company that has worked before. So the one of these universal blade handling tools, that we have, different, solutions from, Germany, a couple of them from Denmark, that the premise is that you can have a single crane and then, the blade tool itself. can either adapt, to the blade itself or there’s some slight modifications that you have to do and then it can handle multi-brand. So that would mean that you have one tool and it can handle a range of blades. Allen Hall: That, that seems like an obvious win for an operator or groups of operators in a certain location like Texas where there’s are variety of turbines.[00:17:00] If I had a multi-brand blade lifting tool, why? Why hasn’t that seen wider adoption by a number of operators? Just basically saying, Hey, everybody, throw in 20% of the cost and we’ll just park this tool in the middle of Texas when we need it, we’ll just pull it out. Seems, that seems obvious, but it hasn’t happened. Gregory Kocsis: If, you look at the tech level of such a tool comparing to the tech level that they used to on a daily basis, it’s, that’s where the gap is because if, they have a tool that’s, you start including it, there’s self-balancing system in it, there’s hydraulics in it, and they. Then they know that then someone needs to know about this. Who’s gonna be that? Is it their own guy? Or is someone coming with the tool every time that they use this? On the good side, we can see that, for example, Vestas made their tools for Vestas blades. and then they, instead of, a universal seating, they use [00:18:00] proprietary seating for each blade. you know what you’re. You wanna lift, you prep the tool accordingly, and then it’ll fit so that works for Vestas. And I think more and more crews are, are using these, Vestas technologies, but I think that. The cool thing would be that to have these tools and start using the tools that are not just, for one OEM, but try to utilize these, multi, multi-brand sites and, make sure that, couple of these tools available. So you also have, resilience that if something breaks down that the whole project is not dying. Yeah, I would say the gap based on the tech availability and the learning curve itself, how to do it is, that’s the most thing that holds it back. Joel Saxum: Let me get, your opinion on a couple other technologies here as we’re talking lifting technologies. up tower cranes have been, I wouldn’t say it, it’s not a resurgence, it’s a, it just [00:19:00] splashed under the scene here in the last few years. You got a couple companies doing it and some doing it offshore, some doing onshore. we’ve spoken to a few of ’em on the podcast. What’s your opinion on the usage of these things and where they’re good, where what, what pros, cons they have? What are your thoughts? Gregory Kocsis: I think it’s great. I, back in the day when I was at the Danish Trade Council in 2019, I think it was, back then when RA started to have this project with Aon back then, now RWE, where they bought one, and they said that, We’ll start testing this. We are gonna be the pioneers in this because on paper, it works really nice that you have less containers moving around, less, setup, less footprint of the crane itself. I think with these, if we’re talking about theile cranes, it has its place where it makes. Most sense. So for example, one, one case that I’ve heard that, the [00:20:00] northern, part of the country and also in Canada, there, there could be some times of the year when the roads are shut down and then you cannot carry these heavy loads. and then moving around one of these up tower cranes, it’s easier. so it’s not gonna be delayed by weather. So definitely for these that you would have a case that. For the next six to seven months, your crane is not available because we cannot transport it. Then you can swoop in with this and definitely solve it. it does need some setup time, so when, the site is fairly close, and the pads are close to each other, moving a conventional crane from site to site is actually easier, than p this down and move it to the next. So it also depends on how many, how many turbines do you want to take care of in the region? Joel Saxum: Yeah. I think large campaigns, it’s tougher to justify them for, they don’t work as well. but one-offs, access [00:21:00] issues. smaller, quicker things. they’re definitely a use case for ’em. Gregory Kocsis: Another thing I’ve seen it, I think a year ago it was not in, in Spain, that they also looked at a technology that how you can, for example, lower the blade, utilizing a fixture in the hub, that you just bring this small thing up and use the turbine itself as its own fixture to lower this. And that would mean that you have. a hoist, on the top. And then you just need a smaller mobile crane, on the bottom to tip the blade when it comes down. I think these are also very cool things because that means that you don’t need the whole, big multi, multi container big cranes to, to set up for, the smaller thing. And if you need to take care of one blade, when there’s no unbalanced road or no crazy thing, you just need to do a blade bang exchange. Then this could also save, a lot. But, that [00:22:00] also comes to the same book that this is fairly new and this is even newer than the up tower cranes. So we’re talking about, this is, let’s say in still in the prototype phase when they testing the first editions, in the past two years. Allen Hall: So will we see more, new technology coming outta Europe, or is the demand going to. Drive the technology where there’s turbines going in. I’m thinking of Australia. We’ve talked to some operators there, they’re gonna use some innovative techniques to assemble towers that have been around several years, and no one in Europe really has taken advantage of it in the states, not even thinking about it, but the rapid expansion in large farms in Australia, is that where the hot center’s gonna be for lifting in new technology over the next couple of years? Gregory Kocsis: I would say so, Allen Hall: yeah. Gregory Kocsis: Australia is also an upcoming market for these. but as we talked about what drives this, [00:23:00] it, it will be driven by where is the most independent service provider or where is the most contracts that are run out of the OEM and the asset owner took the liberty that we are gonna take the decision and we are gonna, we are gonna test this. Allen Hall: So that’s just very interesting, look into the industry because I do think. Where Australia is a little bit different is that they have been in mining and big, heavy iron projects forever and they’re not afraid to get involved in heavy lifts. That’s just something that they do all the time versus the middle of Kansas where that doesn’t tend to happen so much. So is the technology moving towards Australia and towards Asia? In general because offshore’s gonna be there, onshore, ISS gonna be there. And what should we expect over the next, couple of years then, in terms of crane and lifting technology, will we [00:24:00] see, just bigger, more massive cranes doing heavier lifts or is it gonna be more innovation? there’s, I Gregory Kocsis: think it’s two sides of this. So there’s always one side where you look at what’s happening with the new installations. And the new installations are driven by bigger. Things, larger things that are more fragile, especially with the blades. so that, that’s the technology that goes there, that how can we, we are really at the transport limit, on, both macel and blades when we’re talking about these new things. So I think the, the. Innovation in that sense will go on that direction. And the new installation that, how can we make these even bigger things to be possible to transport and put together in terms of the, the aftermarket and the old turbines. It’s a very different perspective. and the, you can also see a lot of [00:25:00] innovations there, but the, but the stakeholders are very different, so I, don’t think still that the OEM will be heavily involved in this. and do platform close cross collaborative options. but we are entering a stage where some of these bigger players are also, global. So E-D-P-E-D-F, they, in energy, I think they’re one of the innovative ones. They, they exist across the pond as well. So they’re starting to do this knowledge transfer within, their organizations and that, that. That, that are kick starting some small things. And then you can see the, it’s the neighbor effect when you can see that, oh, it works there, why can’t we get there? so it will slowly, organically grow that way. Allen Hall: I think it’s gonna be an interesting next couple of years because as turbines have gradually gotten larger, the two megawatt turbine, which exists primarily in the United States, [00:26:00] is a dying breed. 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 megawatt turbines are gonna become the standard, and lifts are gonna get more complicated, obviously, and the challenges will be there, but it, seems like we’re. at the time where the lifting technology and the financial aspects are gonna come together, we’re gonna close some of these loops and it will be a better situation for a lot of people. It’s time. And I, think if you’re out, if you’re listening to this podcast and you haven’t looked at some of the lifting technologies, you need to call Greg or get ahold of Greg. And how do they do that? Do they, can they find you on LinkedIn? Gregory Kocsis: Yeah, absolutely. I think the easiest way is to find me on LinkedIn. My contacts are also there, so you can find my emails there or just ping me with a message and then we, and we take it from there. Allen Hall: And it’s Greg Coxs, K-O-C-S-I-S. Make sure you put that in LinkedIn correctly. K-O-C-S-I-S or you’re never gonna find Greg. Greg, thank you so much for being on the podcast because there’s so much happening in [00:27:00] the lifting world. It’s hard to keep track, and it is a global industry, so it’s nice to talk to somebody who’s in touch with all of it. Absolutely. Gregory Kocsis: My pleasure.