Overtired

Brett records an episode without Christina and Jeff and chats with Melissa Davis (The Mac Mommy) about her start as a mommy blogger and longtime Mac podcaster, her tech-support work, and the strange lack of closure when online friends disappear. They trade mental-health and chronic-illness updates, Adderall vs. Vyvanse, difficulty finding curious doctors, and being labeled “worried well.” Don’t worry, they nerd out on mechanical keyboards, Karabiner, and remapping keys. GrAPPtitudes include Bartender 6 Pro, Sortio for AI tagging, Sketch Party TV, and Karabiner. Sponsor OneSkin improves your skincare routine with science-backed skin care products. With over 10,000 five-star reviews and validation from clinical studies, OneSkin has made a name for itself in the skincare industry. If you’re interested in trying OneSkin for yourself, you can get 15% off your order with the code OVERTIRED at oneskin.co/OVERTIRED. Chapters 00:00 Meet Melissa Davis 00:56 Early Podcast Days 02:20 Tech Support Seniors 05:52 Digital Legacy Work 06:50 Sponsor: OneSkin 08:14 Mental Health Check In 08:34 Insomnia And Focus 13:19 Doing Time Tracker 16:04 Suspenders And Stenosis 20:18 Mobility And Home Hacks 22:10 Melissa Health Update 23:25 ADHD Meds And Mutations 25:25 Curious Doctors Matter 27:59 Vyvanse Vs Adderall 30:26 Tracking Mood With Data 32:27 Cane And Somatic Therapy 36:09 Somatics For EDS 36:50 Yoga Modifications 38:19 Polycystic Liver Shock 39:20 Fatphobia In Healthcare 40:56 Pole Dancing Reality Check 41:55 Mechanical Keyboard ASMR 45:56 Nail Art And Picking 49:09 Keyboard Layout Rabbit Hole 01:00:59 Shortcuts And Muscle Memory 01:03:12 GrAPPtitude App Picks 01:14:07 Karabiner Power Tips 01:17:30 Wrap Up And Thanks Show Links hEDS Doing Timing Royal Kludge Keyboard Gamakey Silent Linear Switches EPOMAKER Switch Benefit Section EPOMAKER AegisSil Keycaps Set SketchParty TV Karabiner Sortio Bartender Pro Day One Join the Conversation Merch Come chat on Discord! Twitter/ovrtrd Instagram/ovrtrd Youtube Get the Newsletter Thanks! You’re downloading today’s show from CacheFly’s network BackBeat Media Podcast Network Check out more episodes at overtiredpod.com and subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your favorite podcast app. Find Brett as @ttscoff, Christina as @film_girl, Jeff as @jsguntzel, and follow Overtired at @ovrtrd on Twitter. Transcript Nails and Keys with Melissa Davis (The Mac Mommy) [00:00:00] Meet Melissa Davis Brett: Hey, this is Brett Terpstra. I am without my usual cohorts, Christina and Jeff. Um, so I, I wanted to, you know, get a, get an episode out for all of you listeners, and I reached out to Melissa Davis, known as The Mac Mommy. Um, I don’t, I, I don’t know if they’re still known as The Mac Mommy, but in m- in my lifetime they have been. Um, Melissa, why don’t you introduce yourself, let people know, like, M-Ma- long time, like Mac personality, podcaster. Tell us where you came from. Melissa: Where did I come from? Outer space. Uh, I came from being a mom. I, I, I will admit, this is hard to admit, But I will admit I started out as a mommy blogger. That’s, like, kind of a bad word nowadays. Brett: back, back, yeah, this is way Back when Melissa: [00:01:00] Yeah. Early Podcast Days Melissa: so we’re talking, like… Well, my oldest is gonna be 20, Brett. My oldest is gonna be 20 this summer. End of, end of June he’ll be 20 years old. So that’s about how long I’ve been doing podcasting. I mean, I started, I started, like, when… Well, you know what? I started listening to Adam Christianson’s The MacCast Brett: But you know what? I started Sure. Like one of the very first podcasts, Yeah. Melissa: still, I still listen to him on the Mac Geek Gab. Like, his voice is just so soothing to me. I used to… Like, that was the f- Back when I had, I had, I remember I had, like, an old G4, uh, Quicksilver Mac, and in the stinky little back room of our old house. And I used to, I used to download the podcasts, burn them on a CD, put them in my Walkman, ’cause I didn’t have an iPod yet at the time. I wasn’t that… I was never really that cutting edge. And I’d burn them on a CD, I’d put the CD in my Walkman, and then I would sit and nurse, I would nurse my baby. I, [00:02:00] and I would have to tuck the, uh, the headphones, you know, I’d have the ear- the, the wired, kinda like I have now, uh, and tuck it behind my back, like, behind my shoulder, because otherwise he’d, like, yank on the cord. And I would just listen to podcasts while I nursed. And I… And then, uh, then I met Victor Cajiao, and I started just kind of being, like, a serial podcaster, showing up here and there, and then it just kinda grew from there. Tech Support Seniors Melissa: Um, and I do… So I do tech support. I’m an IT tech s- tech support person. I… People call me their computer guru. I mostly work with, uh, the senior population, our, our vintage people, which I, I’m slowly becoming one of them. We’re all, we’re all gonna go that way. Brett: I feel like anyone who does Mac tech support deals with probably an, a, a population that skews older. Melissa: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah, it’s actually, it’s actually more– I will say it’s actually more difficult to work with somebody younger. Like, especially people my age or people [00:03:00] that are like, say, in their sixties I consider pretty young, 70 even. Uh, yeah, so but it’s, you know, the people are so, so interesting. You can learn so much. I love working with this population because they’re like encyclopedias, and the stories they tell you and the things you learn, it’s pretty amazing. And I could just, I could just spend– I have actually spent all day with some of them. Some of us just have really great chemistry and, you know, it’s… They– I, I’m also– I have ADHD, that’s no secret. And I think when you get older, um, not– it doesn’t affect everybody, but I do see a lot of what could be either they, they have ADHD or it’s like a– Brett: they have Melissa: of creeps in and it’s just a natural process of aging, cognitive decline. So, yep. Brett: have a lot of patience. Sure. S- some of my, some of my most interesting relationships over the last 10 years have been with, uh, Mac users in their late 70s, [00:04:00] 80s. And, uh, like they’ve been– They’re very– Like, they’re definitely… The people that I’ve known have been technically capable and very interested in learning. That’s why they follow me. That’s how I meet them, right? They’re like, they read my blog, which is just all nerd stuff. And, and so they’re, they’re technically competent, and they’re doing things that I can only aspire to be doing in my 70s and 80s. Um, I had a guy who was writing his memoirs at, in between like mountain bike rides. And so here’s the thing, though, is when you, when you know someone online and they’re in their 80s and you stop hearing from them for a Melissa: Yes. Yes. Brett: you have to assume that they have passed on. and that is sad, and you never really get any closure because you don’t know their friends or family. You [00:05:00] never get like a notice, an obituary. You don’t, you don’t know where these people go, um, and you don’t know how to check in on them once your normal channels of communication are severed. Melissa: Yeah, we’re at that age where we probably start reading the obituaries. Like, I haven’t heard from so-and-so in a while. Let me check the obits." Brett: I had, I had– Before NVUltra went on for, what’s it, like five years now, uh, without a release, um, I had a project called BitWriter with David Halter. And Melissa: remember you mentioning that, yeah. Yeah, and you wondered. Mm-hmm. Brett: he stopped responding. Melissa: you find out any at all? Any, Any, concrete… Brett: Nothing. I have put feelers out everywhere I can think of. I have no idea what happened to him. Melissa: went Richard Simmons, huh? Brett: yeah. Yeah. With less Melissa: No contact. No contact. Aw. Digital Legacy Work Melissa: I, I’m lucky that, uh, in my line of [00:06:00] work, I do typically hear from the family if they’ve passed on, because I form kind of a bond with a lot of people. I, I typically don’t lose clients unless they die, so… Brett: and you have some, like, in real life connections to Melissa: Oh, yeah. Yeah, I do, I do both. I do… I have some clients where I’ve never met them in person, I’ve only ever done remote. Uh, and then, but most of my clients are, are local, the majority of them. But I, I still s- see them remotely too, so yeah. I’ve, I’ve actually been hired by some people, um, mostly I’ve had two male clients who they got a terminal illness, they knew they were terminal, and they followed me online and they pretty much hired me to take care of their surviving spouse. So that, that was… that’s a difficult thing, but I’m just honored that they chose me to, to help them out with that. So I’ve kind of been a bit of a digital undertaker in that regard. Sponsor: OneSkin Christina: I want to take a moment to share something that has significantly improved my skincare routine, OneSkin. [00:07:00] So we all have those days when our skin doesn’t feel its best, and I’ve certainly been in that boat, especially recovering from surgery. And I was tired of navigating through endless products that promised results, but often fell short. And that’s when I discovered OneSkin. It was founded by scientists dedicated to longevity, and this brand stands out for its commitment to real science over marketing hype. They tackle the fundamental question of how to actually slow down skin aging rather than just masking it. And their groundbreaking ingredient is, uh, ZeroS01, and it’s a proprietary peptide designed to help deactivate the damaged cells that contribute to aging skin. Since incorporating OneSkin into my routine, I’ve actually been noticing some improvements. My skin feels smoother. It looks more vibrant. Um, it’s definitely more moisturized, and so this is benefiting from its focus on supporting collagen and strengthening the skin barrier. With over 10,000 five-star reviews and validation from clinical studies, OneSkin has made a name for itself in the skincare industry. If [00:08:00] you’re interested in trying OneSkin for yourself, you can get 15% off your order with the code OVERTIRED at oneskin.co/overtired. That’s 15% off at oneskin.co/overtired using the code OVERTIRED. Thank you for supporting our show by checking them out Mental Health Check In Brett: Um, so do you wanna do a mental health Melissa: Sure. Brett: I, I know, I know you’ve listened to the show before. I know you know how this works. Melissa: how this works. Brett: Would you like to start? Melissa: I think I would like to hear you start, and then I’ll, I’ll add on Brett: that sounds good. Insomnia And Focus Brett: Um, so sleep continues to be a major issue for me. Um, I actually for four days in a row last week, I got eight hours of sleep a night, which was insane. I felt so good. Um- The first night… So I take [00:09:00] Lamictal for bipolar, and if I miss my evening dose, I crash and I sleep in the next morning, and I sleep soundly. Like, it’s the best sleep I can get. And then I wake up and all of a sudden the withdrawal kicks in, and then I’m shaky and dizzy for half an hour after I take the dose. Um, but that’s after, like, a solid night of sleep, and it never works two nights in a row. And, like, I’ve tried, like, maybe if I take Lamictal in the mornings instead of the evenings, maybe I’ll sleep through the night. It doesn’t work after that first missed dose. Um, but then I just, without making any changes in my lifestyle, started sleeping, and I thought finally after, like, two years of insomnia, I had turned a corner, because I can’t remember the last time I got eight hours of sleep for more than two nights in a [00:10:00] row. And then it ended, and then I was up. I’ve been up since 2:30 today. Melissa: I wondered, yep. Brett: I mean, I went to bed at 8:00, so that’s still nine, 10, 11, 12, 11, Melissa: I actually dozed off on the couch around 8:30. Like, if only I could just be in my bed right now, just be, like, transported. Yeah. Oh. Brett: Oh, I, I wish. If I could go back to bed… Like, sometimes I’ll, I’ll lay back down around 7:00 or 8:00 and get, like, another half hour of sleep, but it’s really that, like, uninterrupted block of deep sleep that I need, not… I take naps during the day, and I can usually fall asleep for half an hour, um, given that I’m usually functioning on five hours of sleep anyway. But anyway, um, I– That, that’s just kind of par for the course for me, so, like, any, any of our listeners know that that’s gonna be the first thing I report. Melissa: are you, [00:11:00] like, kinda competing? Like, are you trying to get eight hours because that’s what’s prescribed? Have you ever thought about Brett: be- actually, what works eight and a half, like I’ve, I’ve… Back when I had the option to sleep more than five hours, like, I did a lot of kind of experimentation and Melissa: know where your sweet spot is. Brett: Well, it… See, the sweet pot- spot changes as you age, though, and you need less sleep as you get older. So, so I can’t say for sure that eight and a half hours is still my sweet spot. Um, and I think honestly, if I can sleep seven hours, I feel pretty good, and I consider seven hours a good night’s sleep. Melissa: Yeah, ’cause mine’s like between four and six. Brett: really? Yeah. See, Melissa: feel Brett: I don’t function well. Oh, I don’t function well on anything less than seven hours. Melissa: I just have a love-hate relationship with sleep. I just don’t– I just hate to sleep. I just would rather be doing other things. Life is [00:12:00] just too interesting. Brett: I get that. I– get that. I– as someone who’s bipolar and has had like manic episodes where I’m up for five days straight, like I, I love not sleeping. Um, w- when, when I have the mania to give me energy and back it up. It’s when I’m just dragging all day and feel like a zombie. The thing– The, the plus side to it is the more tired I am, up to a certain point, the better I can focus. Like my brain slows down and it’s really easy for me to get into hyperfocus. And like most mornings I’m up at, you know, 2:30, 3:00 and I just start coding. And I can not only hyperfocus, but I can switch focus between three or four different projects like simultaneously. I hit compile on one, I move on to the next one, and I can rotate [00:13:00] through them and like keep track of all of it. And then right around 10:00 AM, my ability to do that ends and suddenly I like flip to a project and I cannot for the life of me remember what I was doing, which is why I’ve spent my life building note-taking apps and, and time tracking tools. Melissa: Yep, same thing. Doing Time Tracker Brett: dude, h- d- I don’t… You might not be familiar with my project Doing. Melissa: N-no, but I– you alluded to something. that’s not what you’re working on with Dan though, is it? Brett: No, no, that’s gonna be Melissa: Dan on that too. I, I, don’t know what it is yet, but yeah, I’m, I’m Brett: Oh, it’s… Yeah, it’s gonna be cool. Melissa: that’s so exciting. Brett: no, Doing is a command line tool where you can type things like, “Doing now podcasting with Melissa,” and it starts a timer for like what I’m doing now, and then I can ask it if I leave and come back, I can say, “What was I doing?” And it’ll tell me, [00:14:00] “You’re podcasting with Melissa.” Obviously, that’s a weird example ’cause I’m not gonna leave in the middle of this. But then it can give you like totals, time, tag-based time totals, uh, for your week and everything. It can show you like what you finished yesterday. Um, it’s not so much a task tracking app as it is a tool for keeping track of what you’re doing in the moment. Um, for, for people like me who switch between four projects at once, it’s really handy. And some guy, some fucking guy Melissa: Some fucking guy. Brett: it, rewrote it in Rust, and it is really good. it is really good. Uh, he like, I- Oh yeah, I use Melissa: Okay, ’cause Brett: This is, this is separate. this is this is a little more ‘ intentional than Timing. Um, I use both. They kind of work together, and Doing can actually import Timing’s JSON exports. So you can turn your, you can turn [00:15:00] all your Timing data into command line, uh, readable Doing files. Um, but anyway, this guy rewrote it in Rust with my permission, and he gave me full credit on the page. And I think I’m switching ’cause Doing is written in Ruby, and Ruby is slow, and Rust is fast. And like my Doing file where it stores all of my current projects, like my Doing items, gets so big that it can take Doing like up to five seconds to respond when I ask it, “What was I doing today?” Which is five seconds is a long time on the command line. Um, and his Melissa: pretty instantaneous. Brett: his version is like 100 milliseconds. Boom. But anyway, Melissa: It’s almost like you built your own little AI thing. Like, what was I doing? What Brett: kinda, kinda, yeah. Melissa: you doing, Dave? Brett: This is, this [00:16:00] was built long before AI was a common thing, but the other thing that’s contributing to my mental health Suspenders And Stenosis Brett: is suspenders. Melissa: Ah, yes. Brett: So I have I have gained 100 pounds, um, not, n-not of my own choice, but like I had rapid weight gain and I recently got a stenosis diagnosis, which I hate the Melissa: telling you, I’m telling you, we’re like 23 and me here. I’ve got that too. Brett: apparently during one of my, like when I gained 50 pounds in like six weeks, my body was looking for places to store all the new fat and decided my spine might be a good place for that. Um, so I have fat in my spine and I have degrading discs. This is separate from my love of suspenders, so I’ll get back to [00:17:00] that. I, um, Melissa: Wait till you get it in your eyeballs. Brett: Oh, for real? Melissa: Yeah, you can have… I have, um, what’s it called? Cholesterol. Yeah, if you look at your eyes really close, if you see like a white kind of w- ridge around your irises, that’s cholesterol. Brett: Oh, wow. Yeah, I hope, I hope that hasn’t happened yet, but who knows? Um, Melissa: Brings out Brett: I– So I have all this, I have all this extra weight and I had a lot of trouble with belts. A, belts hurt ’cause they dig into my, my gut, and they don’t really work. I, every, every time I stood up, my butt crack showed and I had to like wiggle my pants up. And then I I tried a pair of suspenders and it was like a l- a switch had been flipped. All of a sudden my pants just stayed up without any constriction around my waist, just like they just stayed with me wherever I went. And now I can, [00:18:00] I can tuck my shirts in and it actually looks kinda cool when you got the suspenders look going on. Which means, so like for a long time I only wore one brand of shirt, um, and because they, it was, it fit my belly and it was long enough and like it wasn’t, wasn’t baggy around the top and didn’t hang off my belly like a muumuu. Melissa: Mm-hmm, Brett: And like, so I, I, I only wore this brand of shirt and I own like 15 of them, and I would just cycle through Melissa: dresses, they’re just your Walmart $10 cotton tank dress. Love it. Brett: Yeah. But now that I can tuck my shirts in and feel okay about it, I can buy those extra large nerd shirts, ones with funny slogans and stuff on them. And normally those would hang straight down off my belly, and I hate the way that looks. But now I can tuck those in, which means I can get back to wearing funny, [00:19:00] ironic T-shirts, and it, it’s like opening up a whole new world of possibilities Melissa: That is a bonus for mental health. Brett: every day now I put on my suspenders and it makes me happy. Um, Melissa: wonderful. It’s almost like a, like a mobility aid. Brett: Kinda, yeah. Melissa: yeah. Brett: of, I– So I, I have a monopod, um, like a tripod that folds up into a walking stick, and it’s nice and light and it is an adjustable height ’cause it’s designed to be used as a camera tripod. Um, and I’ve started walking with it Melissa: yeah. kinda like you’re Brett: I c- yeah. Yeah. Like one of my fat friends has s- literal like ski poles. They’re like half height ski poles and they walk with them and it helps them a ton, and I Melissa: Yeah, hikers use those. Brett: try that out. But a walking stick [00:20:00] really does help with my stenosis, but I can still, even with a stick, I can only walk for about five minutes, which is about .3, Melissa: Yeah. Brett: 3, .3 miles. Um, and then I have to stop and sit, and it’s been a real pain, literally. Mobility And Home Hacks Melissa: And is standing difficult, too? Brett: standing is worse than walking. Melissa: thing, yeah. Standing’s worse. Brett: Yeah. Like if I am in the kitchen and I’m at the stove cooking, before the onions start to brown, I have to sit Melissa: Yeah. Yep. Brett: Uh, so we now have a stool in our kitchen, Melissa: Do you have one in the shower? Brett: yes. Well, our shower, our shower has a nice, like the back of the tub is a seat. Melissa: Oh, okay. Yeah. Brett: I don’t know if this house was designed by old people or not, but, um, but it’s certainly everything is relatively [00:21:00] accessible in that way. Um, but the stool in the kitchen means I can cook dinner. Emptying the dishwasher is the worst for me. That just like bending over, picking stuff up, and then just moving back and forth, like the five feet across our kitchen. My– I, it takes me three stops, three rests to get a dishwasher emptied. Um, and then I’m kind of ruined after that. I hate it. And I hate that I Melissa: stress mat? Brett: What’s that? Oh, you mean Melissa: mat to stand on? Gotta get, gotta Brett: think that would help? Melissa: Oh, yeah. Yeah, I have Brett: used to have one Melissa: and one in front of the kitchen, and I don’t even, I don’t even, do the cooking. Brett: Ha. I used to, I used to have one of those in front of the stove when I w- when I didn’t have pain, but just because I was really getting into cooking and I was spending a lot of time, and I was starting to feel it in my knees. Um, yeah, maybe I should do Melissa: I think it’s a fatigue [00:22:00] mat, I think they call it. Brett: Yeah. Melissa: Yeah, Brett: That sounds Melissa: plus they look cool if you get little designs on them and stuff. Yeah. Oh, we could spend the day talking about just mobility aids and ergonomics and all that kind of stuff. Melissa Health Update Brett: Well, it’s your turn. Talk about whatever you like. Melissa: Yeah, you give me some ideas to talk about. Um, yeah, I struggle with a lot of the same things that you do. Um, I’m always like kinda comparing notes every time you post something. I’m like, "Oh No, ‘Cause you talked about Have you … You haven’t started the injections yet, have you? Brett: No, and they just delayed those. I don’t get them until like June 20th or something. Melissa: nervous about those for you, because I’ve had those and I’ve decided to just swear off them, so I’ll just kinda give you just a heads-up. I mean, it does raise your blood sugar, so that’s not great, and, um, it can give you the roid rage, kinda make you angry, so that’s something to watch out for, and more weight gain, so …But it’s like one of those things where you just have to kinda try [00:23:00] it and see if it works, because if it does work, then you could be more mobile and then maybe drop a few pounds and get some of that weight off of your spine. But if it doesn’t work, just know that that can happen, Brett: my doctor did not mention any of those side effects, so good to Melissa: Yeah. Yeah. It’s, it’s the chronic life, so that’s, that’s what, that’s what, uh, affects my mental health, so I’m, I’m really good at faking it. I am actually … I will say I’m actually feeling a little bit more even. ADHD Meds And Mutations Melissa: I’m on, uh … I love when you talk about different prescriptions and stuff. Uh, I just mentioned, so I’m taking Adderall. That is, ugh, it’s a mixed bag. Um, I wanted to ask you about Vyvanse, cause that’s the next thing for me, but it’s, like, super expensive, so I’m trying to make Adderall work as best I can, but I’m, I’m in the process of playing with the dosage. But I think she told me, like, the highest was 30. The thing is, uh, I’ve had genetic testing done, and [00:24:00] I have this condit- not a condition, but it’s a I’m a mutant. It’s a genetic mutation called, it’s, it’s just initials. It’s MTHFR, lovingly known as Brett: you process your, your, chemicals twice as … fast. I have Melissa: Yes, faster processing in the liver. So that’s when she told me, ’cause she started, uh, me out on methylphenidate, and I was like, “Well, what about Adderall?” Because it, I see it work for my kids, you know? The kids are chip off the old block, right? And so I’ve had them tested too, and all three of us are positive for that. It’s lovelin- lovingly known as the motherfucker gene mutation. Um, yeah, so, and it is. It’s, it’s quite a bitch, um, ’cause it causes a whole bunch of other problems. And of course, we’ve talked about Ehlers-Danlos, so I have, uh, hypermobile Eh- Ehlers-Danlos. I’m having a hard time … I’m just having a hard time with that in general, mental health wise, because there’s just not enough awareness about it, enough people, and doctors, doctors and nurses. And you know, I’ll, I’ll say I wanna, I would love to be able to get [00:25:00] to a point where I can just say, “I have H-E-D-S,” or heads or what- however they’re gonna pronounce it, and, like, somebody know what that is when I go in for an appointment. But I still have to explain it, you know? And then that, that cuts into my time. ‘Cause they only … When you’re, when you’re our age, they only give you, like, 15 minutes, if that. When you’re much older, ’cause I’ve had to take, I’ve had to take family members to the doctor, they get a whole lot more time. But, uh, you know, it’s like, "Oh, you’re, you’re too young to be this sick. You’re too young to be this old," Brett: Right. Yeah. Curious Doctors Matter Brett: Um, I did– I found that doctor for me that knew exactly what all those acronyms meant, knew exactly, like, not only did they know what POTS was, they knew like seven different kinds of POTS and what tests to use to narrow it down. And then she got called up to National Guard Melissa: Oh, I wondered, I wondered, what happened to that doctor, ’cause it sounded so Brett: I waited. I was on a, I was on– I w- I had an appointment scheduled that was gonna be six months from the time she [00:26:00] left. Um, and I had it scheduled, and it was on July 7th. And then I got a letter in the mail saying that her Guard duty had been extended, and now I can’t see her again until September. And, like, I’ve, I’ve tried seeing other doctors that work with her, but none of them have the knowledge she has, and it was such a relief Melissa: Is this the curious one? Okay. I always think about you whenever I’m either looking for a provider or in the, in the midst of, of getting, you know, shuffled around to a new provider. I’m like, “I hope they’re curious,” ’cause that made– that meant so much to me when you explained about how a doctor needs to be curious. I’m like, “That’s what I need.” I need somebody… Or even just my therapist. I have a new, a new therapist that I see, and she’s really curious, and I really, really like that about her. That’s something that helps with mental health, is when somebody’s curious, ’cause I’m Brett: it goes h- it goes hand in hand with credulousness. Like, [00:27:00] first they have to be willing to believe you, and like, especially when it comes to invisible issues like EDS. Like, you have to be willing to believe a person and then be curious enough to look for answers. Like, the first step is believing, and the second step is curiosity. Melissa: Yes. I’ve already had my patient record marked as… Have you ever heard this one? Worried well. Brett: No. Melissa: I looked it up. It’s basically hypochondriac. Brett: Yeah, that’s what I was gonna guess. That Melissa: Yep. I actually– I was proud of myself because I actually did confront the doctor about it and I said, “What does this mean?” I said, “I, I looked it up and it kinda concerns me ’cause it makes me look like a hypochondriac.” And she said, "Oh, no, no, that’s just a, a code that we use when we don’t have something else to assign to it so that insurance will pay." Bullshit. Brett: Yeah, right? I feel like that’s exactly the kind of [00:28:00] thing insurance doesn’t pay. Melissa: Mm-hmm. so Vyvanse Vs Adderall Brett: what do you wanna know about Vyvanse? Melissa: Um, a- and I know it’s different for everybody, but I just kinda wondered what your take was on it. Um, how– can you compare it to Adderall at all for me, Brett: Yeah. Melissa: no comparison? Brett: it’s basically a non-abusable, I would call it lower lying version of, of Adderall. Like, it’s in the same family of stimulant as Adderall, but it can’t– It isn’t processed or it’s… I don’t remember how the mechanics of it work, but you can’t snort it basically. Like, it doesn’t, it doesn’t do anything Melissa: Which I wouldn’t wanna do anyway ’cause there’s nothing up here. Brett: Sure. Sure. And then, yeah, I’m not suggesting that was gonna be a problem for you. Um, but it’s also, like, it’s way, um, for me anyway, it’s way calmer. [00:29:00] Um, and there are people that say it doesn’t do anything at all. Um, especially a lot of people, a lot of people say the generic version doesn’t do anything, um, and that the name brand version does, but I haven’t found that to be true. Like the generic, which you’re correct, still costs like 200 bucks a month, um, for the generic. Um, but it is– It’s not my favorite. Melissa: I wondered why– what made you stop taking it. Did it just not work for you? Brett: No, I still take Vyvanse. Um, yeah. Um, I used to take, um, Focalin, which I loved. Melissa: That really worked for my kiddo, yep. Brett: but it also triggered my mania, Melissa: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Brett: so I was always walking this line of like, do I wanna be super productive and manic with like weeks of depression in between, [00:30:00] or do I just wanna be somewhat productive and stable? Um, which is why I’ve stuck with Vyvanse, and my doctor loves it enough for me that she won’t, she won’t prescribe anything else for me at this point. Like, I’ve asked about switching. I’ve asked about moving back to Adderall and things like that, but, Melissa: It seems like you’re, like you’re kinda on an evening out. Brett: Yeah, I haven’t had a manic episode for a couple years now. Tracking Mood With Data Melissa: Do you track it? Do you– Like, have you ever seen those– I keep seeing these ads for it ’cause, you know, the algorithm feeds us the stuff for wearables that are, um, called– I think it’s called Visible, so it makes your symptoms more visible instead of invisible. Like, do you track it? Do you Have you nerded out on your own data? Brett: like my mania and depression? Melissa: Yeah, like do you track it and look at graphs or anything like that to Brett: See, I’ve never had to use an external tool because I can just look at GitHub contribution graphs, and I can look at [00:31:00] my RSS feed, and I can see exactly, like for a period of like eight years, I can pinpoint exactly where my manic episodes were, um, because that data is historically preserved out there on the internet for all to see. Um, it’s, yeah, it’s– Well, and that’s, like I built tools that gathered that, those various sources of data. Um, and then there was a, a tool called, um, I forget. Melissa: cool, though? Hmm. We’ll think Brett: But it could pull, it could pull in all that data. Um, Bell Beth Cooper, Hello Code, I can’t remember the name of the app. Melissa: Yeah, it’ll come to you eventually. Brett: sure. Uh, but it could pull in like your GitHub, uh, commits along with like what the weather was at the time, how many songs you listened to that Melissa: Oh, day one sorta does that, yeah. Brett: Does it now? Melissa: A little bit, yeah, your locations, [00:32:00] um, if you turn on some of those things. Like not– I don’t think it does the music and things like that, but Brett: I haven’t used it for a while. I haven’t used it for a Melissa: I was gonna switch to the journal app. I was actually really… I held off on upgrading to Tahoe for the longest time, but that one kept nagging at me ’cause I thought, oh, you know, maybe. I mean, as much as I love Day One, I, I thought about, I thought about actually switching over, but no. I tried it. I’m, I’m gonna stick with Day One. Brett: Cool. All right. Cane And Somatic Therapy Brett: Um, so did you have, did you have more to add to your Melissa: Oh, I was gonna, I was gonna add on to what you were talking about with the suspenders. I did start… I think you probably… Well, yeah, you commented on it. Um, I started using a cane, and that I have mixed feelings about that. Um, I should have brought it in here so I could show you. I’ll show you later, ’cause, uh, anyway, it’s, it’s purple. I did get a pimp cane. That’s what my husband calls it. I thought, damn it, if I’m gonna use, like, a cane, then it’s gonna be [00:33:00] purple, and I’m gonna like looking at it, as much as I hate to use it, so. So I’ve been trying to use it. I… What you were talking about with, uh, with finding a curious doctor, I do have new physical therapist, um, so I’m really happy about that. Same kind of thing where she’s super booked. I think that’s just how it is. Like, the really good ones, they’re good, and, you know, it shows because it’s, it’s hard to get in to see them. So yeah. So I’m, I’m looking forward to that. We’re gonna be doing… Have you heard of somatic therapy? Brett: Yeah. Melissa: Yeah. So ha- have you tried it? Do, do you like it? Okay. That’s, that’s what I’m embarking on. Brett: I actually have a friend who teaches classes in it. Melissa: Oh, Al probably knows about that. Brett: y- yeah, Melissa: Yeah, I’ll, I’ll Brett: and it is, it is amazing how hard just doing things, doing motions you’re used to, but doing them very slowly and intentionally. It is like you– Just like, Just like, doing y- like a clamshell where you drop your knee, you’re [00:34:00] on your back and you drop your knee down to the side and bring it back up. Like that motion, most of us, even infirmed people can do that okay. You try to take… You try to do that and take like five breaths in each direction, and you’ll start shaking. It’s very Melissa: Ah, uh-huh. Yep. Brett: Yeah, but it’s good. Like it’s g- it really retrains your muscles. It really, it strengthens, retrains, and helps with, uh, finer motor control. Melissa: Oh, that’s interesting. Yeah, I, I’m, I’m a little bit on the skeptical end of it, so that’s why I’m, I’m glad that, that you, you vouch for it too. It’s like I know that it works, but I just… I guess I wanna understand the science of it a little bit more. Like, for example, I’ve tried, uh, acupuncture, and I just didn’t feel like it did, did anything for me. I think you have to be, like, a believer, and I just Brett: think so. Melissa: I, I, I even did that on purpose knowing that I kinda felt like it wasn’t gonna work. I was like, well, what if I just go into this? ‘Cause, [00:35:00] ’cause I talk to people and they’re like, "Well, you have to believe in it." I’m like, but what if I don’t? I just don’t, you know? I’m, I see it Brett: it’s not medicine if you have to believe in it. Melissa: Yeah. I mean, I see it work for other people. I know there’s, you know, such a thing as placebos and things like that, and I don’t know, it’s, it’s woo-woo and I, I, I like woo-woo stuff. I, it just, it didn’t do anything for me, so… It’s not to say that it doesn’t work for other people, but it just did not work for me, and I, I kind of, I, maybe I just, uh, did that on purpose when I, I try- probably just tripped myself up going into it thinking, well, I just don’t believe it, so if it works, then there must be science behind it. And then, then, I’ll believe. But it didn’t work out, so. So the, I’m a little bit on the fence about the somatic thing, but the, the, the gal that I’m working with is just so, she has EDS herself, and like, like what you were saying, like, she, she knows all about it and she could even, you know, tell me the, the type that she has, and I was like, I met, I met, actually last week I met two zebras in one week. [00:36:00] You, you’re familiar with the, the zebra mascot? If you, uh, the saying goes, if you hear hooves, think horses. But we’re not horses, are we? Yeah, so Yeah, so that’s, that’s our, our Somatics For EDS Melissa: EDS Brett: somatic– somatics you don’t have to believe in for them to work. Melissa: Okay, that is Brett: it’s an actual physical therapy method that trains the finer muscles, um, that surround your larger muscles and, and strengthens those, and it– Yeah, it’s for real. It’s, yeah, it’s not like a… It’s soma- I think, Melissa: w- totally Brett: ’cause I I had the same reaction when someone said somatics, ’cause I think, “Oh, that’s some holistic idea of the body, um, of soma,” and it’s… No, it’s, it’s got legit physical therapy behind it. Melissa: And, Yoga Modifications Melissa: you used to do a lot of yoga too, so that probably makes Brett: I still do. Melissa: Yeah? That’s [00:37:00] wonderful. Brett: it’s gotten really hard. Um, I can’t, I can’t– So I get dizzy Melissa: Yeah. Brett: going from sitting to standing, um, and my back gives out if I am in, like, horse or warrior two for more than a couple minutes. Um, and I can’t do cobras because I have a belly like a nine-month pregnancy. Um, so I have to do, like, prenatal yoga, um, which is actually a thing. Melissa: that’s a good idea. I’m glad you brought that up. I should look Brett: a- and I do chair yoga, um, where I I take the class that everyone else takes, but I modify it to work with… Like, there, there are defined moves that you do with a chair instead of. Instead of doing down dog, you do, like, a 90-degree down dog holding the back of a chair. Um, and you put, like, a knee on the chair to do warrior two, so you’re actually [00:38:00] resting. And Um, and you can do it fully seated too and get at least the arm exercises out of it. So I’ve been trying to maintain, maintain flexibility and some endurance. I’m not doing yoga the way I used to do it, but I am still Melissa: I’ve seen some of your poses. It’s pretty impressive. Brett: Yeah, back in the day. Melissa: W- when you could be upside down. Polycystic Liver Shock Melissa: I should look into that because I, you know, although I’m done having babies, like far done having babies, I have… You probably know about this too, I have polycystic liver disease, which is a really rare type of liver disease, and it’s not fatty liver. Oh my God, I have to keep telling doctors that. That’s the other thing. It’s like, it is not fatty liver. It is not. It- they’re cysts. It’s a totally different thing. I’m basically full of bubbles. So I… But it feels like that’s why I went in to get it. I didn’t actually get that checked. I found it accidentally when I went in for an heart, for a heart CT. That’s when they found it, and for a, a breast MRI, so [00:39:00] both those, those types of scans caught it. The other parts were fine, so my heart’s fine, so that’s a relief. But yeah, so this was a bit of a shock. And so I don’t know exactly what it means moving forward, um, but my entire liver is, like, engulfed in cysts, so. Right? But my blood work is, is fantastic right now, so I’m just gonna keep Brett: That’s good. Melissa: hoping it stays that way. Brett: That’s something. Fatphobia In Healthcare Brett: Um, I I have heard for a long time about, um, doctors being fatphobic and, and always assuming that, um, always assuming that your health i-issue is because you’re fat and not even looking for underlying issues, which has been an interesting experience for me because that really never happened to me. Melissa: Mm. Brett: Um, at least not once I switched to Gundersen from, like, a local clinic. Then I realized that it’s not just being fat that gets you [00:40:00] stigmatized, it’s being a fat woman. Melissa: Mm, I was gonna say try having a uterus and being Brett: yeah. Yeah. Um, like I talked to one of my best friends, April, who he’s, has been on Melissa: by, women doctors. Brett: Yeah. Yeah. And that’s, that’s what April tells me. She tells me all these horror stories. Even after finding care she trusted, she still has to deal with people saying, “Well, if you just lost some weight.” Like, she’s been fat her whole life. She’s in better shape than most skinny people Melissa: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Brett: I mean, she does sit-ups with 50-pound plates and does, like, five, 10 miles at a time on her, like, on her bike and, like, she’s in great shape and still has to walk with the ski poles, and she’s getting her second knee replaced this week. And, like, it, it’s just infuriating to hear the way that doctors dismiss Melissa: You know what the problem is, Brett? Brett: goes through [00:41:00] when Pole Dancing Reality Check Melissa: Not enough doctors have watched fat pole dancers. That is the problem right there. They need more education. Brett: Um, yeah. There’s, there are a couple of, um, queer burlesque shows Melissa: shows, yes. Brett: in my area that almost always include a plus-size pole dance, and it is amazing to Melissa: Oh, it’s mesmerizing. It should be an Olympic sport. Remind me to send you the, the link to, unless you’ve already seen it, have you seen the Deadpool pole dancer? Brett: No, I don’t think Melissa: you are in for a treat. We might just have to put that in the show notes, but I don’t know, I don’t know if your listeners are that, are into that It’s fully clothed, but it’s, there’s even blue Crocs involved. Brett: So this is nobody that you’re seeing on the Melissa: I wondered, yep. I wondered, yeah. Aw, he looks so soft. Mm. Mechanical Keyboard ASMR Brett: So you’ve [00:42:00] gotten really into mechanical keyboards. Melissa: have, I have. In fact, uh, I was gonna, I was gonna see how this might sound, but I, I brought my little box of key caps to show you so that I could say, welcome to my ASMR channel. Brett: That would… is is that a thing? I bet there are ASMR, like, key switch testing. Melissa: yeah, yeah. I’ve run across a couple of videos where, you know, they’ll have a hashtag ASMR in there, and that’s, that’s what it is. Do you experience ASMR yourself? Brett: No. Melissa: No? So when you listen to those videos you don’t get like the s- the tickling of the spine and stuff? Brett: No. Melissa: I do. It actually, it goes, it… I forget. I always forget what the acronym stands for, but it, you know, has something to do with the meridian. So if you can i- imagine your brain like split in half, and I feel it right on this side. It goes, it goes like the, down the back of my head, behind my ear, and down into my shoulder. It [00:43:00] is the funkiest feeling, and I love it. I love it so much. Even when we were talking about animals in the, in the beginning and I even had a cat that would come and just like kind of lick my ear and, oh, I just, I love that. Most people cannot stand that sound. They have the opposite condition where they can’t handle somebody chewing gum. My grandfather had that. Um, some, some kinda, it ends in a tonia. Misatonia or something like that, um, where… I don’t know. Do you have any of those like sound sensory issues? I have a lot of Brett: really don’t. I’m very, I’m very, like, sound Like, I like loud, heavy music. Like, that does something for my psyche. Um, but general sounds, they neither bo-bother me nor stimulate me. Melissa: imagine what that’s like. I just can’t. I’m So bothered, and my kids too, and you know, ugh, God, Brett: So El Melissa: has been problematic. Brett: El is, El is, definitely sensitive to sound, um, in a way that Like, even my [00:44:00] mechanical keyboards can’t be, can’t be on the same floor of the house as Elle. We pretty much live in silence, and that’s fine for me most of the time because, like, it just doesn’t affect me either way. So, like, keeping things quiet is easy, and I focus well in silence. And then when Elle’s gone, I blast my music, and w- when I’m in the car, I blast my music, and then the rest of the time I live in the quiet place. Melissa: Mm-hmm. In The Quiet Place. Brett: Yeah. Melissa: Yeah, we have- something a little similar, but m- my husband and I have, uh… We have our his and hers kind of setup here in, in the, in our den, in our inner study. So he’s got his side and I’ve got my side. So we’re together, and he does a lot of grading papers, and he’s really good about putting his, his earbuds in and just tuning the whole world out. He’s… It’s fascinating to watch that man just [00:45:00] execute. I mean, I just am so envious of people who can just execute. But the, the, the, yeah, the sensory, it’s all about the sensory stuff for me when it comes to keyboards. I actually thought about… I don’t know how popular it would be, but I also thought about making a podcast, a video podcast, that would highlight the intersection of nail art and mechanical keyboards. Because I’ll tell you, that’s actually what… I’ve always loved mechanical keyboards, but yeah, the, the one that I had, someone had given me a, a Matias, and oh, it’s, it’s so loud, but it’s like high-pitched. It’s kinda sharp. And it was even kind of annoying to me after a while. And then it does not, it’s not a mechanical keyboard in that you can’t pull the switches out, so you’re kinda stuck with what you got. Like, you might be able to change the key caps if you could find them, but couldn’t change the switches. And something happened to the S key, and I was like, “All right, it’s over,” so. But I can’t get rid of them either, so one of these days I wanna have like a display of, of keyboards. [00:46:00] Nail Art And Picking Melissa: But what got me, what got me into saying, “Okay, I’m finally, I’m just gonna invest in a keyboard because it’s ergonomically important to me,” is I have… And I can’t pronounce it, so I’m not even gonna try, but there’s a condition, and it’s a self-diagnosed thing. But I, I am a picker. I pick my skin a lot. Um, I think it’s called derma something Anyway, so I wasn’t gonna try to pronounce it. But, uh, I’ve always had that condition since I was a kid. I didn’t even know it was a thing. I just thought everybody get, uh, picks. But then during the pande- during the pandemic, it got super bad. Like, I had, I had, um, some panic attacks and, you know, as a lot of probab- people probably did. But it got so bad to the point where I had picked my fingers and they were bleeding and they were throbbing and they were hurting. And I said to one of my kids, I said to my youngest, I said, “Can you just, like, if I, if I’m picking, can you just let me know?” And then I regretted doing that because then he took it on as this, like, full-time job, you know? And it kinda [00:47:00] gave him anxiety, and I thought, “Oh, okay, that, that was a bad thing to do.” So I s- I let him off the hook. I said, “No, you don’t have to tell me anymore.” Um, because, yeah, ev- even if I went to, like, just kinda, like, clean under my nail or something. So it was actually causing a real problem for the family that I was just picking so much. And it’s not just my fingers, it’s, like, other parts of my body. So I thought to myself, “Well, what can I do about this?” And so I started putting fake nail tips on. And I hate to be all, like… I don’t know, I’m not, I try not to be, like, a very vain person, but I really started kinda falling into the nail art side of things, and I, I just recently learned how to do gel and work with, um, uh, what’s it called? Uh, not resin. So I… Oh, that’s another ASMR thing. Do you like to watch resin pours? Brett: I do, actually, yes. Melissa: that’s… Okay, so if you like resin pours, if you like to watch the viscosity and the way the, the chemicals, like, form together and when they, when they mix colors in and stuff, [00:48:00] that’s what it’s like with nail art but on more of, like, a macro level because it’s, you know, you’re working with small stuff. Like, just, just recently I learned how to do… So I’m showing Brett this on, on camera, but I recently learned how to do the kind of nail polish that you take a magnet and you run the magnet along it, and it makes this, like, a cat’s eye. Brett: Yeah, that’s cool. Melissa: I love it. So, so that, so combining nail art then, and I thought, “Well, now I’ve got these long nails,” but all of my keyboards have been these flat, really low-profile keyboards. And, you know, I just, I started to dread it. So then I was kinda caught between a crossroads. Like, either I leave nails off and I can type really, really fast and have high accuracy with no nails, but then as soon as, as soon as I get, like, a little snag or something, then I start picking and then it’s just, it’s all over then. Or I try to find a way to work with these nails. So that’s what I started thinking, “Well, maybe if I had higher keys.” And so then I just, yeah, rabbit hole. [00:49:00] Went down the rabbit hole, and I’ve, I’ve just kinda been there ever since. And, uh, it really, I think, uh… Let’s see. How long ago did this start? It’s only been about maybe like six months or something like that, so. Keyboard Layout Rabbit Hole Melissa: But in that time so I’ve started, um, building a collection of switches. So I’ve been really interested in both the key caps and the switches. Um, I’ve got my baseboards. I like my Royal Kludge the best. This is… I’m gonna show Brett my Royal Kludge. So, so this is what it’s looking like right now. Brett: Yeah. Melissa: It is very purpley. Um, I did post some pictures. I can… I don’t know if you do pictures in show notes, but I could take some pictures for you It’s got a knob. It’s got, um… Let me see if I can do it real Brett: Do you use the knob. I have a couple keyboards with knobs and even a joystick, and I never actually use them Melissa: Good question. Um, I, I use it, I try to use it for volume at [00:50:00] times, and that’s probably what I use it for the most. But this one does have a… Let’s see if I can get this into focus here, backwards and upside down. It’s gonna be upside down, but you see how you can put, you can put your logo Brett: Oh, yeah. Nice. Melissa: got my The Mac Mommy little logo on there. Otherwise, it gives you the time in military format, so that’s kind of handy to have. Um, but yeah, it’s… To be honest, I, I love the, I love this Royal Kludge because it’s nice and heavy, and I love the form factor. It’s got a number pad, um, because I’m, because I am a grown-ass adult and I need a number pad. Um, but it’s nice and heavy. It doesn’t, it doesn’t move around my desk a lot. I kind of have to type, like, kind of crooked, ’cause that’s just the way my neck goes to the wrong way and stuff like that. So I like being able to fit it on my desk. I have a, I had a larger one made by Red, uh, what is it? Redragon. This is the one that I started [00:51:00] out with. Gonna make lots of noise here. But as you can see, this one is way bigger. And it was, as much as I liked it, I mean, I fell in love with it, but what was happening was my accuracy was, like, really thrown off because I fe- I kept feeling like it just needs to be, like, a couple centimeters to the right or a couple centimeters to the left. It just wasn’t centered very well. So this one, my husband gets all the hand-me-downs, so that one went over onto his desk. Uh, and then I also have a baby keyboard here, and this is another Redragon. This is my little mini one. Brett: that’s, that’s the kind of keyboard I mostly use, like a 70% keyboard. Melissa: Yeah, I think this one’s even 60. Um… Brett: My– The one I’m using right now is, uh, 60. There’s no, there’s no function row, there’s no arrow, there’s no keypad or, like, arrow pad. Um, Melissa: No [00:52:00] arrows? How do you live without arrows? Oh, do you, you mapped your keys to something Brett: so it looks like this, Melissa: nice. I love the Brett: that the, the space bar is split in two. Yeah, my, my, my partner says it looks like, uh, gay ’80s. It’s all pink and blue and purple. Um, but the, the space bar is split, and the right half of mine functions as something called a mod key, and when I hold that down, then my I, J, K, and L keys become arrow keys. Melissa: Oh, wow. Brett: once you get used to it, you never have to take your hand off the home row. Melissa: Oh my God, that must be amazing. Brett: It– Yeah, once you get used to it, it, it’s so… Like, g- moving to a keyboard that doesn’t have that is kind of tortuous. On my MacBook Pro, I have remapped it using Karabiner so that Melissa: [00:53:00] That’s what I’m using. Brett: if I hold, the semicolon down with my pinky, then H-I-J-K-L become, Melissa: Oh, nice. Brett: become arrow keys, so I still don’t have to move my hand all the way down and to the right. Like, that’s such a inefficient movement that then I have to, like… Because I don’t have great feeling in my fingers, so finding, on a low-profile keyboard, finding the, the homing buttons again Melissa: Oh, do you use the humming buttons? See, that’s the thing, I was never taught that. I mean, I took like a ty- I took like a typewriting class back in high school, and I just didn’t like it. I, I just taught myself. I just… I’m an autodidact that way, so I just taught myself. Brett: my dad, back in 1984, we had a typing program on our PCjr, and I Melissa: It wasn’t Mavis Beacon, was it? Brett: remember. I don’t remember. All I know is, like, It taught you touch typing, and it would give you [00:54:00] these lessons, and you would basically just mirror what was on screen. And at the age of seven, I was typing at about 68 words per minute on an, on an old IBM PCjr keyboard. Um, got a lot faster through high school and everything. But yeah, I was, I was, from day one, I was raised to be a touch typist, and, and I took all the classes they had in school. Melissa: But you still touch Brett: labs. Yeah. Melissa: Uh-huh, yeah. So you don’t do the home rows. Brett: No, that is touch Melissa: Oh, touch typing, so you do feel… for the bumps. Brett: Yeah, I feel for the bumps, and then I just, like, my f- my key, my fingers never really leave the Melissa: Oh, yeah. See, I wish I could do Brett: centered home row. Yeah. It’s, it, it’s good. Um, Melissa: And you’re using the split, so my gosh. Brett: What– You get used to that too. Um, like, [00:55:00] I can’t do it with the split far apart. I’ve seen people use, like, splits, like, way out to the sides, and I can’t, my, my brain doesn’t do that. Like, my hands have to be within, like, six inches of each other. Melissa: I always thought, it would be so cool to have something where you could have it, like, raised up like this, right? And use your hands sideways. Brett: Yeah. Well, that’s I mean, that’s essentially, I have, on the bottom of this keyboard, I have these risers. Melissa: Oh, uh-huh. Oh, Brett: So it sits, right now I have it at about a 45-degree tent, tent, tent. Um, but it can go up to more like an 80-degree tent, where you’re actually Melissa: Wow. Brett: uh, almost like you’re clapping, you’re typing. Um, I don’t Melissa: of that. I have a, a, handshake mouse. Brett: Vertical mouse. Melissa: You like… Is that what you have for a mouse too? Brett: no, I, I love Melissa: Trackballs. Oh, trackpads. Oh, okay. Brett: Apple’s Magic Trackpad changed my life. I’ve never used– I’ve never gone back to a [00:56:00] mouse since the first Magic Trackpad came out. Melissa: So you’re all about the gestures then? Brett: yeah, Melissa: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. That’s great. Brett: Bet- bet- better touch tool for the win. Melissa: You know what it is for me, is because of the type of work that I do, and this is very much true for both of us, you do these things because of the type of work that you do. The type of work that I do, I’m in everybody’s homes, so I have to ty- I have to be able to type and use their mouse and, I mean, it’s actually a very dirty job. So I keep hand wipes with me everywhere. Um, that, that was why during the pandemic I was like, “I am not coming to your house and I am not touching the stuff that you just picked your nose and…” Yeah, mm-mm. But, so, so i- it’s been kind of keeping me almost like a purist in a way as far as keyboards have gone all these years. I, I finally just kind of let go and embraced this recently, th- which is why I’m so excited and why I’m just kind of nerding out on it, because when, when I worked [00:57:00] in, like, I’ll call it the industry, um, I got my f- my start in prepress. So I worked in prepress, I was a typesetter, and we had… That’s what I kind of miss. We had the old clunky beige keyboards, and I had my muscle memory such that I think my o- my Option key would have, like, the indentation of my nail on it. You know? ‘Cause I had, just like you have, keys that are programmed. I could… I was a Quark queen. I don’t know if you’re familiar with QuarkXPress? Brett: Oh, yeah. Yeah. I was a graphic designer. I I know Quark. Melissa: Yeah, I loved it. I was… And, and I used it back in the OS 9 days, OS 7 really, is when I started out. Uh, I did not like the OS X vers- OS 10 version of Quark. Did not like it at all. Brett: No, but that’s Melissa: it was slow. Brett: Adobe came out with, what was, what was Adobe’s… InDesign. Yeah. By the time I had started, by the time I had started my own ad agency, we were all InDesign. Melissa: Oh, [00:58:00] nice. Okay. I mean, it was a Brett: and none of the, none of the print shops expected Quark files Melissa: Yeah. Oh, it was so expensive. I remember I had to buy it when I was in college, and I remember it cost, like, $800. I’m probably still paying for that, damn it, in interest. Yeah, so that, that’s how I got my start originally, and that’s how I was doing… I, I went to… So I have, I have a Bachelor of Fine Arts. I went to college in order to be a designer. I wanted to be a designer designer, and that’s what I, what I thought I was good at and thought that I liked doing, ’cause, you know, “Oh, you’re a girl. Go to art school. You like to draw.” You know? I’m always bitter about that because I really wish that I would’ve been able to go… I mean, this was, you know… I’m, I’m 51, so this was back in the day where girls, girls don’t do computers and girls don’t do coding. G- girls don’t do computer science. They didn’t even call it computer science. They didn’t even call it graphic design back then. It was commercial art. Um, so I studied that and, you know, I liked it ’cause I thought, “Well, this is what I could, I could take my art and make [00:59:00] a living into it.” And then fast-forward, um, I just started to fall in love with the technical troubleshooting side of things. So as, as good as I was at the technical typesetting and the technical, like, putting prepress things together, you know, um, uh, key sheets and s- you know, things like that. Do you remember, was there, uh, did you ever use a program called Quick Keys? That was one of the ones Brett: familiar. Melissa: you could map your own keys to things. So w- when I was in prepress and doing typesetting, I used that program and I, I mapped all my keys, and I had all these quick keys and stuff so I could go really, really fast, you know? So when they wanted something done fast, they gave it to me, and I could just fly through documents with this. But then as people learned that I was good at this kind of stuff and troubleshooting, they’re like, “Oh, hey, Roger needs, you know, has a problem. Can you go help him?” So I’d go over to his cubicle, I sit down, and he’s got nothing. You know, he’s got [01:00:00] no quick keys, no nothing, and you just kinda get lost because your muscle memory just adapts to it. And I couldn’t help people the way… And, and that was what it was about for me. I really liked more helping people and troubleshooting and the technology side of things than the actual design process. So I kind of went to the other side with it. And so I just kind of, like, vowed that, okay, I’m not gonna do any kind of, like, customization on my own workstation because then I’ll, my, my muscle memory will map to it, and then when I go to sit down to help somebody else, I won’t… You know, I’ll be so much in my own world that I won’t be able to help them. And so I just kind of, like, remained a, a pu

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Chapters 00:00 Gang Back Together 01:23 Mental Health Corner 01:39 Back Pain Diagnosis 07:09 Dental Insurance Racket 12:34 Post Surge Recovery 19:24 Surgery And Withdrawal 24:36 Sponsor One Skin 26:23 Terminal Widget Reveal 31:24 Widgets And Visualizations 34:51 Release Plans And Review 36:56 Universal Bundle Pricing 37:38 AI Boosts Mark II Sales 39:20 Leaving Oracle Behind 40:03 Ninety Hour Workweeks 41:55 NV Ultra Vaporware Woes 43:17 Missing Collaborators Online 45:09 Dan Peterson Secret App 46:23 The Pit TV Complaints 50:49 ER Nostalgia and Cast 54:01 Season Two and Other Shows 58:33 Gratitude App Picks 01:00:09 AI Tools and Claude Code 01:04:35 Bookshelves and Audiobooks 01:07:10 Wrap Up and Sleep Show Links TerminalWidget Marked 3 Bezel BookShelves Claude app Join the Conversation Merch! Come chat on Discord! Twitter/ovrtrd Instagram/ovrtrd Youtube Get the Newsletter Thanks! You’re downloading today’s show from CacheFly’s network BackBeat Media Podcast Network Transcript Projects and Pitt-falls Gang Back Together Christina: [00:00:00] What’s that? Do you see a podcast update in your feed? Well that’s because you’re back on, on Overtired and, uh, and I’m Christina Warren and I’m joined by, uh, Jeff Severns Guntzel and Brett Terpstra. What do you know? The whole gang is back together. Overtired, everybody what Jeff: Hi everybody. Brett: I need a, we need a party sound. We need a Christina: we do. We need a soundboard. We need a soundboard and we need a, a way to be like what Gangs all here. Some sort of a like a either a a we need a horn. That’s what we need. We need one of those. Those horns they play at at at football games. Jeff: would like that very much. Brett: or that like B. Christina: exactly. Jeff: yeah, Brett: That would really wake people up. Christina: It really would. And, and especially, um, all of us. ’cause I we’re recording this earlier than we ever do. Brett’s been up for a really long time and, uh, I think Jeff is probably like raring to go, but I’m like, I, well now Jeff: raring to go, but I’m warming [00:01:00] up. Christina: Yeah, I, I, I’ve been up since like five 30, so I’m okay too, but yeah. Brett: I wrote an entire shortcuts in shortcut intense interface for my new app this morning, and it’s actually working. I’ve never written for shortcuts before. Christina: Well, Ooh, we will, yeah, you gotta talk to us more about that ’cause I wanna hear more about that. Mental Health Corner Christina: Um, but first I think we should probably do, um, because it’s been a while since we’ve all been together, we should probably do a little bit of a mental health corner. Brett: yeah, Who wants to kick that off? Okay, fine. I will. Jeff: health. Mental health. Silence. Back Pain Diagnosis Brett: I, uh, I, I, my sleep has gotten a little worse than it was before when I told you it was bad. Um, I’m, now, I’m back down to like five hours a night and I just wake up at like 2:00 AM. And like I go to bed by eight or nine and I get up at [00:02:00] 2:00 AM every morning and I just cannot, for the life of me fall back asleep. And for like the first hour I’m up, I’m not even really awake. Um, I’m just kind of sitting on the couch staring at my computer and not be, not able to do anything After about an hour. Um. I, I, I’ll get some coffee, I’ll take my meds and like then it’s kind of like most people’s, like maybe 10:00 AM 11:00 AM um, by, by like 3:00 AM but it’s still wearing me down. Um, I got, so I’ve had back pain, um, for a while now. Uh, I can’t stand up for more than about five minutes and I can’t walk for more than three to five minutes, which has really put a dent in my, um, ability to exercise. And, um, so I finally got, I got an MRI [00:03:00] done, and they. Diagnose me with stenosis, which I think is kind of a, a broad term, but like a couple of the discs in my lower back have collapsed and, um, they, they, they think I can be treated with, uh, with shots and not surgery. Um, so I’m hoping, I’m hoping to get that figured out because, okay, so right now, uh, we, we always go on walks in the wildlife refuge, um, like the wetlands refuge near us, and I love it. We, we see so much cool stuff there and I hadn’t really been able to, but what I found was this little, it’s like. Folded up, it’s like two feet tall, uh, camp chair and it, it’s like a camp stool. And so I carry that with us while we walk and then like every three minutes I’ll like have to set it up on [00:04:00] the side of the trail sit. And if I sit for two minutes, the pain goes away, I can then walk again immediately. Um, but like after, after three to five minutes, like my back freezes up and I, like, I literally, I can’t move anymore. Um, so this little, uh, take carrying a chair and doing it in three minutes stints, um, has at least allowed me to get out and get some green time. But that’s kinda where I’m at. Jeff: What does this little chair look like? Uh Brett: It’s blue Jeff: huh. Brett: and it has four legs and it’s can canvas. Jeff: is it like an adorable little camp chair that you’re supposed to be able to like Brett: I think it’s a toddler’s ch camp chair. Jeff: Excellent. This is the detail I Brett: like, it’s smaller than my butt. Like I’m perching on it, but it’s enough to like get my back, uh, into feeling. Okay. And it’s not too heavy to like carry[00:05:00] Jeff: Show art, but the art, the art is you perching. Just to be really clear. Brett: Yes. My, my 280 pounds pound perched on a two foot camp stool, it’ll be great. Jeff: Wow. Well, I’m glad there’s something like some kind of thing Brett: Yeah, no, it’s actually really good. It’s really good to get the stenosis diagnosis and ’cause for a long time I just assumed because I gained weight, my, my back wouldn’t work anymore, which was depressing. But the more I thought about it, the more I realized I’ve been this heavy before and I have not had this pain. And even after my first like 50 pound sudden weight gain, I didn’t have back pain. So it didn’t make sense that my body just couldn’t handle it, uh, like something else had to be going on. So it was actually much like any diagnosis, I think, um, other than, you know, terminal illness, but for like A [00:06:00] DHD or stenosis or any like mental health condition, it’s a relief to get a diagnosis and find out you weren’t crazy, you weren’t making things up. So yeah, I’m, I’m grateful. Christina: No, I completely like, can, can relate to that. ’cause when I, like with my back, well my cervical spine, um, it was kind of a similar thing. Obviously mine was more acute and it was a different scenario because I got, um, like the, you know, diagnosis relatively quickly, although it still felt like it took longer than, than I wanted it to, to, to get my MRIs and whatnot. Um, but it was similar to you. It was like kind of a relief to be like, oh, okay, so you have like a major problem. This isn’t just you being a wimp and, Brett: Yeah, exactly. Christina: exhilarating pain. Right. Like excruciating pain. Right. And, and just even having that, even knowing, okay, I don’t love that I have to go through [00:07:00] this whole thing. Um, I’m, I’m still like relieved to have a diagnosis and a plan forward. Dental Insurance Racket Brett: Oh, and also I, so I’m on state. Healthcare, and that includes, um, Delta Dental, but it’s this weird version of Delta Dental that nobody in my town accepts. Um, so I have to, I have to drive 45 minutes to get dental care and even then they can’t, he can’t do root canals or anything. And I needed two root canals and that would’ve involved driving two and a half hours or three hours and then going back to the 45 minute away place. And so what I did was I took the extra money I had saved outside of my, like, nest egg savings, but like my working savings. And I paid for a year of actual Delta Dental, um, and started going to a place [00:08:00] just really close to me and, um. It turns out that the best dental health insurance is still shit like it. I don’t know how much dental work you guys get done, but it is, Christina: it’s, it is crappy. Brett: it’s a, it’s, it’s a racket. And I actually watched a YouTube video on why dental insurance is a scam. And it like interviewed Dennis who actually take these like Delta Dental and the Medicaid dentists. Um, and it is truly a scam. And what I found, and this is much the same experience, uh, Christina talked about with her, um, MRII think it was that you did a cash pay. Um, I talked to the dentist and I said, do you have a cash paid discount? And he’s like, oh yeah. And basically. I can just pay cash and do everything for about 60% of the normal cost, and that is better than what [00:09:00] Delta does for me in most cases. Plus, I need so much work that my $2,000 cap with Delta is gone. Christina: Well, I was, I was gonna say like, so when I joined Microsoft, Microsoft used to have really good. Dental insurance, um, respectively speaking as, as good as it can be. But there were still, you know, caps on how much work would be done. But I found like a good person to go to. ’cause I had an incident, um, about a year after I moved to Seattle, maybe less than that, where um, I had to have an emergency root canal and like that sucked. Um, like I went into a normal dentist. She was like, this is what you need. And then I had to like, take an Uber, like over to a guy and see him like that day at like 5:00 PM and I’m like, you know, all like drugged up and, and getting the root canal. And that was not great. And I needed a lot of, of, of work done. Um, and so we split it over like she was a really good dentist and so we split it over. We were like, I was coming close to. The, the end of the calendar year. So she was like, okay, we’re gonna do all of this work and then we will start the next year [00:10:00] when things go forward. And like she knew how to play the system and was like a really good dentist. Well then Micro, then I went to GitHub. GitHub used, um, you know, uh, Delta Dental. And, and that can vary based on plan. Microsoft is apparently on them too. Google also had them on a slightly different plan, and it’s like you never know what you’re getting. And yeah, to your point, because if you need a lot of work done, if you have anything specialized, if you’re, you’re lucky if you get the right plan and you can see a provider in your area, great. But if you don’t, to your point, it is often, this is just fucked up. Like, especially if you’re having to pay out of pocket for it anyway. If it’s part of your employer, you know, benefits, maybe it’s a little different, but it’s like even then it can still wind up being less expensive to just pay the cash stuff than whatever your deductibles are, which have a cap anyway. And, and, and, and, and then, yeah, the, the, the way that the, the Medicaid or, or even insurance pricing works, stuff that they might charge you a very nominal fee for, for like a cleaning or whatever is, or a cavity fill [00:11:00] is gonna be, you know, they’re gonna bill insurance like three or four times that Brett: Right, exactly. So I pay, I pay like 800 bucks for a year of Delta, and that gives me basically $2,000 to work with, plus whatever price they can negotiate. Um, but like you said, like they, they bill three times. Um, so like what still comes out of my like $2,000 pot, um, is higher than I would’ve paid with Christina: If you just paid cash, if you just had an $800 budget, or if you got like, yeah, that’s the thing. Okay. This is an AI app that somebody should build. And I’m saying this hoping that maybe something the audience will, or maybe one of us could vibe code it, because this seems like this would be a relatively easy calculator to do with like certain providers if they, if they, you know, list their things where you could like run the costs and be like, okay, this is, I’m gonna put in this number. This is what my, you know, provider’s fees are. This is what my [00:12:00] insurance thing is. Um, Brett: what my cash pay Christina: this is what my cash pay is. Is it cheaper for me to spend $800 a year on Delta Dental or to just pay cash directly with my, my dentist? Brett: Yeah. Have you as I’ve, as I’ve said to people who have pitched ideas to me in the past, you’re talking about a spreadsheet? Christina: Yes. It is a spreadsheet to be completely out. Yes. But I can now use cloud code to, to to, to, you know, figure out the formula for me is the real thing. Brett: Yeah. There you go. All right. Who’s up? Post Surge Recovery Jeff: Dr. To, um, I can talk, uh, uh, I’m, I mean, I’m doing really well. Uh, I we’re a couple months past, or, you know, a couple months past the operation Metro surge stuff here in January and February, in a little bit of December, but really January. And that was, I’d never kind of experienced like a, a full [00:13:00] taxing of every single person and kind of person I knew and which was amazing. Um, and, uh, and it took a minute when things settled here, um, to, for everybody to kind of figure out what. How to just even enter into the world every day because everything had been driven by what was happening on a almost hourly to hourly basis for, for some time. And, um, and so I kind of moved through that, that period, which was like quite a sort of come down, uh, of adrenaline and, and amygdala sparking. Um, and, and have kind of smoothed a little bit. And, um, and I’m just doing well. I’m having a nice, a nice goal of it right now. Christina: Good. Great to hear. Brett: I, I guess that everything’s relative. Right? Jeff: Yeah. Everything’s relative. Yeah. Yeah. But I think I would call this a nice go of it, uh, even outside the context of comparing [00:14:00] to, to Operation Metro Surge. Brett: that’s, that’s, I, I’m happy for you. That’s awesome. Jeff: I think actually the last time I was on the podcast was with you, Christina, in January right after we had had a raid in our alley, which was even before the surge Christina: You before the big surge, even before Jeff: of an early start. Christina: I was gonna say even before, like I, I, I don’t even know if, if, if the, the, the murder had happened. Um, Jeff: not at all. In fact, we only had 100 extra ice agents here at the time and within a couple of weeks there’d be a woman in front of my house, uh, being pulled out of her car ’cause she was following ice agents and throwing me her phone as she gets tossed into a, into a fucking ice truck. And like it was just, everything happened so fast and so slowly all at the same time. And, and obviously there’s still all sorts of stuff going on, but it is indisputably not what it was in January and February. Brett: I was gonna ask you about that. ’cause like the total number of deportations is only slightly [00:15:00] lower right now than it was during the surge. Um, and they, they removed, they added like, what, 3000 agents and they removed like 800 of them. So, Jeff: they’ve removed way more than Brett: Hey, have they Jeff: oh, yeah. We’re down to, I haven’t, I don’t wanna say the numbers because I haven’t looked at them. We’re, we’re back down to like the high hundreds and we, our baseline is like 1 25. Brett: Okay. Jeff: Yeah. You can tell. Um, it’s, yeah, you can tell. And I, and I’ve been down to the WPO Federal building a a few times, um, which is where ICE was kind of headquartered and there’s just the level of activity there is very low. Um, they had some new vehicles come in at one point about a month ago, but mostly those are replacing rentals that they were using. So it wasn’t like people took it as kind of an indication that they were, you know, staffing up or suiting up again. But it was really just kind of replacing their, their really weird, like sort of duct tape together invasion. Um, it’s kinda like in Iraq when they decided they were gonna [00:16:00] actually armor the Humvees, it was kind of like a little bit of a switch of, of vehicles. Um. Yeah, it’s much different. And like, you know, all the people either in my life or in my community that were in hiding or not, I mean, for the most part, not in hiding anymore vulnerable folks and undocumented folks. And, um, so it’s like, it’s qualitatively and nervous, systemly different Brett: Yeah. Yeah. Jeff: for everybody and still sucks. And there’s still a risk and a threat and, and a horror. And a terror. Brett: Yeah, down here in southern Minnesota, I have not gotten a call to do a food delivery or a grocery delivery for, yeah, a couple months. Um, so yeah, I guess it really has calmed down across the state. Jeff: Yeah. Thank God. I mean, who knows what they’re up to that isn’t as visible, but thank God Brett: exactly. Jeff: over. So yeah, I, I mean it’s, and I actually just had my, my brother’s been in town and every time someone kind of comes to visit, they wanna like. You know, kind of hear or take in what the thing was and you start describing it again, and [00:17:00] now it just, I mean, it felt like a dream at the time. It just felt like, how could this be real? But you were just so in it, like every single person, like you said, Brett, like people were doing grocery deliveries or people were, you know, cooking food for the people that were kind of on the front lines, or you were following ice, or you were dispatching people to follow ice, whatever. It was like every. Single person I could think of as doing something. And uh, and, and so when you try to describe it now, when you look around, especially in my neighborhood where they were all over, um, it it, it seems like, was this, was this real, um, like, was it even real because like, I don’t know, like the end here. ’cause this could go on forever, but I don’t know if any of you saw the footage that went around of a high school called Roosevelt High School, where, uh, where Bovino showed up and there was all this crazy shit and the, the footage of this, um, went around the country and like it was, you know, reposted by freaking everybody that was my son’s school in my neighborhood. And, and so like, it was just this constant thing of like, bovino at my son’s school, binos at my gas station. Like, it was just [00:18:00] utterly insane. And now, and, and every street felt almost, you could feel ice on the streets. Like you would see ghost cars where they had taken people or whatever. You could like, feel ’em on the streets. And so you walk around, you walk around the same streets now, and it’s just birds and kids playing and you’re just like, did that, was that real? Brett: There, there was a tow truck driver that was interviewed who had taken it upon himself to tow those ghost cars for free back to their origin. Um, and just like leave them for people. Jeff: at least, or he would take them in and not charge if you came in for them. And it’s, and that’s just it. Everybody, everybody. It was incredible. It was incredible. Christina: It’s crazy. Jeff: Yeah. All Christina: I hope, I genuinely hope that they’ve lost interest and, and have moved on to other things. Brett: Like Seattle. Christina: yeah. Well, I mean, Seattle is obviously a very different situation and, and that had a, a longstanding, I think, impact. Um, and, and I, I, I. I’ve said this, I said this at the time, people who made that really bad were the [00:19:00] activists who came in outside the so-called activists and putting that in quotation marks who came in, who didn’t even live in the city and agitated things and made things way worse than, than they, than it should have been. Um, but yeah, but I hope that it’s like Seattle, that it just kind of falls like the, the government doesn’t come back and, and continue this, you know, reign of terror. Jeff: Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. Surgery And Withdrawal Christina: Um, well, I’ll, I’ll be quick. So I, I had surgery since I guess the last time I was on, Jeff: Sure did. Christina: that went well. Um, the surgery itself, I’m still in some pain, um, in my shoulder after the surgery, uh, which was not like you were fi fixing my cervical spine. But, um, they, uh, I guess however it worked, like I, I think as muscular, um, I, I’ve been going to to to PT for the last few weeks. Um, but I still having some, some shoulder pain. That’s, that’s getting better. Um, the hardest thing was actually some of the medication stuff. So [00:20:00] I, uh, gabapentin, um, I know it’s a lifesaver for a lot of people. I don’t have a good reaction to it. Like I’m one of those people. Like, it, it a, it makes me feel kind of loopy. I don’t like it. B it’s very difficult for me to sleep on it. Um, which, which is a problem and, you know, but, but the big thing is it just kind of makes me like, feel like I’m not kind of in my own head. Like I feel like, don’t know, like, um, altered on it. I, I would say. And so I went off they gabapentin and no one told me, and I am gonna put this as a PSA out there. ’cause I know a lot of people take it. Do not go off of that cold Turkey. Jeff: mm. Christina: They didn’t tell me that. Um, which someone should have, but no one told me that. And it can actually cause seizures if you do other things. But in my case, the real thing was that I had withdrawal. That was some of the worst withdrawal I’ve ever had. In my life ever. And, um, it like awful, like awful, awful, awful to the point that to go off the Gabapentin and they had me on like a, a decent dosage. It [00:21:00] took me a month because I had to keep going basically down like one pill like every week to step down. And, but I mean, I was getting, you know, like, like hot and cold sweats, you know, like feeling like my teeth were gnashing, you know, like nauseous, just like awful, awful stuff. So it took me, you know, a month to go off of that. I had to extend my medical leave in part because of the medication withdrawal stuff, because I was like, I can’t go back to work if I’m gonna be like, still dealing with, with medication bullshit. Um, so, um, that was actually, you know, in some ways like more, uh, of an issue than like recovering from the surgery itself, which was major. Like I, I tried to kind of downplay like what it was, but it was, it was major surgery and um. Um, I’m glad that it’s over. So, you know, onwards and upwards. I’m, I’ve been back at work for a couple weeks. Um, still kind of settling in on that, but, uh, but yeah. Brett: That [00:22:00] withdrawal sounds terrible. Usually you have to do opiates to get that kind of fun. Christina: Yeah, well that was the thing. I saw somebody on, I read it, which of course is anecdotal. I don’t usually look for this stuff, but sometimes you just wanna feel like, okay, is it, is it common for me to have this withdrawal or not? And somebody, and one of the subreddits was like, this was worse than coming off of heroin and I in a jail cell, and I should know because I’ve done that. And I was like, okay, I, I’m not going to equate it at that level, you know, for, for me. But it was definitely like that bad. It was, let me put it this way, it was bad enough that at first I thought. It was the opiate withdrawal because I, they gave me some, some oxy, um, um, contin. Um, and then the doctor was like, no, that’s not a high enough dosage. This is, you know, um, it, it, it probably was gabapentin and, and it, it. What pissed me off is that one of the physician’s assistants or whatever, when I’m telling like my doctor about this, I’m like, okay, if I need another nerve drug, then we need to find something [00:23:00] else. I can go on select so I can go on, you know, something else. But, but I, I clearly can’t stay on this. A, they kind of gaslit me because I’m a woman and obviously my pain and my symptoms can’t be real. So that’s like number one. And that’s just a fact. I don’t care if you’re a male or female doctor, they don’t take you seriously. I’ve complained about that before. Um, b like she had the nerves to say, she was like, well, you know, if the withdrawal is that bad, then why don’t you just stay on the medic medication? It’s not that it, it, it, it’s fine. I’m like, no, it’s not fine. It makes me feel altered. You’re telling me that it’s for nerve pain, that my nerve pain should be fixed if my nerve pain isn’t fixed and if I need something for nerve stuff, then that’s one thing and we could maybe look at an alternative, something that doesn’t make me feel loopy and lets me sleep. But if your suggestion is, oh, to avoid the bad withdrawal, just stay on the drug. I’m sorry, what the fuck are we doing? Um, and, and then the doctor’s like, well, you know, we get this all the time. We never see side effects. And then I looked it up, you know, in the actual drug literature and no, there are side effects exactly like the ones I experienced. So I was like, I recognize that. [00:24:00] I always am usually that like one percentile person who gets like the weird side effect. Like, that’s who I am. I get that. But Brett: crazy. I’ve, I’ve gone off of gabapentin. It sucks. I You’re not crazy at all. Christina: yeah. But, but it just, it just was frustrating to me that like the, the suggestions like, we’ll just stay on it. It’s like, no, like that’s, that’s, that’s not actually gonna be a thing anyway, but onward and upward. Jeff: Yeah. Wow. I’m glad you’re through that. Like Christina: Yeah, me too. Me too. Okay. Sponsor One Skin Christina: Well, I know we have some other topics we wanna get to, but before we do that, um, let’s take a moment to talk about our sponsor of today’s episode One Skin. So, um, you know, I, I’ve gone through a number of different things with my skincare routine over the years. Some have been more effective than other. Um, you know, um, my skin kind of goes back and forth between being too oily and too dry. I’m kind of in a dry [00:25:00] phase right now, and, um, there are tons of products out there that, that promise results. And then you, you get them in the, and they’re, they don’t necessarily work. So, uh, I wanna talk to you about One Skin, which was founded by scientists, and it’s dedicated to longevity. And, um, the, the brand is actually committed to being real science over marketing hype. And so, uh. What they wind up. Uh, what, how, how this works is that they use OSO uh, zero one, which is a proprietary peptide, which is designed to help deactivate the damaged cells that contribute to aging skin. And, um, I’ve been using one skin, um, for a little bit, and I, I’m, I’m liking it. I like how it makes my face feel. Um, I like, um, the fact that, uh, it’s. You know, what the peptides are supposed to do is help basically, uh, support collagen, uh, uh, of production and, and, and strengthening the skin barrier. Um, I’m not alone. There are over 10,005 star reviews and there’s validation from clinical studies and, and it’s making a name for itself in the skincare industry.[00:26:00] So if you are interested in trying one skin for yourself, you can get 15% off your order with the code Overtired at one skin.co/ Overtired. That’s 15% off at one skin. Do co slash Overtired and use that code Overtired. So thank you one skin for supporting our show and check them out. Brett: Awesome. Terminal Widget Reveal Brett: Do you guys, can I tell you about terminal widget? Jeff: Terminal widget. Yes. Set it up. Terminal widget. Brett Terpstra. What’s Brett: so I, I, I wanted, I had scripts running in the background and I wanted a quick way to check them and I thought it should be easy to put. Script output into a, like a widget on the desktop. And I could not find anything that actually worked. Like Shellfish has a widget, but it, it takes minutes to update and it’s flaky and, and the other apps out there [00:27:00] did not work for me. So I thought I would build my own. So I think I started it a month ago. Um, I built a, just something for, you can run a terminal command and update a progress bar or an image or, uh, like sparkline text or just straight up text output from your. Terminal, all kinds of charts and everything, and, and it updates instantly on your desktop, uh, with like a 0.5 to one second delay, uh, which I wasn’t able to find anywhere else. I had to like, use JSON payloads and like basically a cloud kit watcher, um, cloud kit because I did also port it to iOS. And, um, so I can run one command in my terminal or from a script in the background and have my iPhone and my desktop update with progress. Um, I am working [00:28:00] on a watch version of it that is not, I, I have it working in the app, but I wanna make it so it works as a complication. Um, that’s gonna take a little more doing, uh, but this morning and yesterday I spent working on. The Apple script and shortcuts interfaces for it. And I hate designing Apple Script dictionaries, uh, because there’s no, like, there’s no standard for like terminology and there’s no like golden way to do it. And I always end up messing it up even when I do have a plan. This time I think I actually succeeded in building out a dictionary that makes semantic sense and is somewhat. Predictable if you’ve ever written Apples script before, but I also added all of the widgets can be controlled from shortcuts. You just drag in like a chart widget into your shortcut and pass in like a value or like a, a chart of values. It can [00:29:00] do matrices and sign waves and, and line grass and bar charts, and it’s pretty nuts. You can check it out. It’s not available yet, but all of the documentation and all of the screenshots are at Terminal widget app. Um, and I am, I’m pretty impressed with myself and Christina: yeah. Brett: that’s what I’ve been working on while waiting for Mark III to make it through app store reviews so I can finally publish that. I, my latest rejection first, I got rejected, like a couple legitimate. Uh, concerns, but then I had a CLI that I wrote that was embedded in the app bundle and there was an option to create a sim link in your, in your terminal to use the CLI. And this was just a convenience method for like, you give it command line flags and it converts it into URL handlers and they rejected me for Christina: [00:30:00] I was gonna say, I was gonna say, they don’t let you do that. Like what I’ve seen with other apps do is usually there’s like a, um, in the app store is that usually you have to download a helper to install the CL. Brett: right. So what I did, uh, to get past the rejection was completely rip out the binary from the bundle. Uh, if you go to the install cli CLI tool menu item, it simply takes you to a webpage where there’s a, a notarized signed PKG file, or you can install from Homebrew, but it’s completely separate from the app store. And the last rejection said that I was requiring users to download an external app in order to use the app. Which is ridiculous on its face. Like it’s, it’s a convenience method. In no way do you need to download it. Um, there’s no requirement. In fact, it’s almost buried that you would even want it. Um, [00:31:00] and so I argued with the reviewer for a couple days ’cause they were replying like once a day. Um, and then they told me I had to go through a re uh, the appeal process. So I submitted an appeal at four 50 this morning. We’ll see how long that takes now. But in the meantime, terminal Widget is keeping me sane. I’m having a lot of fun with that. Widgets And Visualizations Jeff: I have some terminal widget questions. I’m looking at the site right now. Um, so talk to me about, um, talk to us about your, your initial use case, like was, which you’ve kind of described already, which is you just wanted to be able to check on these scripts Brett: Yeah. I just wanted a progress Jeff: But then Brett Terpstra kicks in ’cause like I just wanted a progress bar and now I’m looking at all the flags and everything else that you could have. You know, I’m curious like of all of the options that are in there, I want you to just share something that might not be intuitive or might not guess you can do. And then I’m curious of like if you have something you’re like, and what I [00:32:00] really want it to be able to do is. Brett: So you can pass it up to a hundred numbers, like a, a list of space or canvas, separated numbers that you can output from whatever script you’re developing. And you can have it, uh, output a sine wave or a um, uh, a waveform. I like the waveform visualization for it. And so you can get like pretty cool visualizations out of. Tabular data basically. And I also just added, um, tabular, like you can, you can give it a CSV file and it’ll generate a table for you. And it really only works well on like the large widget size. Um, but on both, on both iOS and Mac, uh, the tables look pretty good. Jeff: Nice. Christina: That’s awesome. I, I have a, I have a nerdy, uh, well, but less nerdy question. [00:33:00] Um, on the Terminal WIT app website, um, you have like a, a video of a, like, you know, showing off like, um, you know, your, your, your terminal app open and, um, the, the text being typed out. What did you use to create that? Did you use a remotion or did you use something else to generate that Brett: I scripted that, um, I, I wrote if there’s a helper Christina: charm or something? Brett: No, Christina: Okay. Brett: I, it’s a helper. It’s a helper script that it, it clears the screen and then it takes a table of commands and it types the command out with like a jitter delay. So it looks somewhat natural, like typing. And then it actually runs the command in the background. And then once the command’s finished, it clears the screen and does the same thing with the next one. Um, so I can just feed it like a, a, uh, a file with all the commands. I wanna run one per line. Um, and it just types them out and executes them. Jeff: That’s awesome. Christina: Cool. Brett: I know, [00:34:00] like I looked into like using like as, as as cinema. Um, and it just to get that kind of really. Smooth, rapid typing out of it, uh, without, you know, all the backspace and everything. I, it was, I found it difficult to program it to, to code it. And by the time I had it figured out, I figured I should just write my own script for it. Christina: Yeah. There’s, um, there, there’s a, a. Service called Remotion, which can do some of that sort of graphical work, which is what I thought you might’ve used at first. Um, charm has a thing called VHS, which is basically like a CLI home home recorder, which is pretty cool. Um, and I’ve used that before, but yeah, I was just kind of curious, um, what you did, but yeah, you just built your own. That’s awesome. Very cool. Release Plans And Review Christina: Um, now for your, your, when do you think like, because I, I noticed that you have like for for blog book and for terminal widget, you have like coming soon. Is that like, ’cause [00:35:00] you’re still kind of like working on stuff or, um, are you going through review hell with those as well? Brett: I haven’t even tried getting either of those reviewed. Um, blog book I is approved for test flight, um, and anyone who wants in on that can just contact me. It is getting the slowest development out of all my projects right now just because it is, it’s a more niche app that I don’t think is gonna make a ton of money. But, um, mark III is where most of my effort is going. Then I’m working on porting mark three’s, uh, store kit stuff into NV Ultra, and then I can focus on trying to usher terminal widget through app review. Um, I have a feeling that’s going to go very poorly and I may end up just releasing outside the app store, but because it has an iOS Christina: I was gonna say with the iOS component is the hard part. Brett: I kind of have to, so we’ll see what happens. Christina: Yeah. [00:36:00] ’cause I was gonna say, ’cause like, I mean I guess what you could do is if you did something for the iOS F would make it different though. Like if it’s just, ’cause I’m sure it has, it’s working out. It’s pretty much just remote instance that’s showing Brett: No, no, it’s got, it’s a, Christina: you, you built in your own terminal emulator into it. Brett: no, there’s no, no, no, no, no, no. There’s no terminal in this app at all. Like, you use it from whatever terminal or from shortcuts. Um, so it’s all native widgets on both. Christina: right. I was just saying in terms of the app store thing, like, I guess like if since there’s not a native terminal on, on iOS, it’s, I’m assuming that it’s, it’s a remote widget is what I was trying to get at. Brett: Essentially, yes. But if you write a shortcut on iOS that updates the widget, it updates both iOS and Mac os. So it is usable entirely. You could just buy it for iOS and, and it would be a functional app. Christina: okay. Okay. Universal Bundle Pricing Brett: But I do intend, I hope [00:37:00] to sell it as one universal bundle. So you pay like 9 99 and you get the iOS, the Mac, and the watch app without having to buy for every platform separately. Um, I just don’t see it being like such a valuable app that it’s worth making people go through that rigamarole. Christina: right. No, I was just trying to think. Brett: and everyone I’ve shown it to so far has been excited about it and the most common response I get is I will buy this as soon as I figure out what I would use it for. I’m like, yeah, okay. Jeff: Okay, fine. Awesome. AI Boosts Mark II Sales Jeff: And can you talk about how, because the whole world now works in markdown marked, has gotten a bump because I think that’s an amazing story. Brett: Well, yeah, it was. was a few months ago now, maybe six months. Um, my sales just started increasing and I was looking everywhere through all my traffic and all my logs [00:38:00] to figure out where this, where these people were coming from. Um, and it was eventually pointed out to me that if you ask any agent, any AI agent what you should use to view markdown, um, they would point you to Mark two. And it was now, for the last four months, five months, it’s been doing five times the sales year over year. What it was doing, Jeff: How close is it to the highest it ever was? Brett: um, the highest it ever was was actually when it was only 2 99. And Gruber wrote about it. Uh, back in this is like 2000. This was over a decade ago. And, um, back when, like one tweet from Gruber meant like success and that I made that year, I made almost a hundred thousand dollars on it.[00:39:00] Um, this is nowhere near that. This is doing like Jeff: But it’s a highly unexpected bump, right? Like in a delightful, delightful bump. Brett: yeah. It’s doing, it’s doing without even releasing Mark iii, I’m making about half of my former salary off of it. Jeff: Nice. I’m happy for you. Leaving Oracle Behind Brett: Also, uh, one year, um, in two days I’ll be one year out of Oracle and I quite happy about it. Jeff: that’s great. I was wondering about that, Brett: I don’t miss my corporate job. I miss, I miss some aspects, health insurance, paychecks, things like that. But Jeff: that aren’t at all about the content of the job, right? Brett: Well, like that stuff has never mattered all that much to me if I’m happy doing the work. And I really wasn’t happy doing the work. Christina: Well, that’s, that’s the thing. I’m glad that you’re, I’m glad things have been going well. I’m glad that, that the, the agents have, uh, been telling everybody about Mark two. Hopefully they will also tell them [00:40:00] about Mark three. Um. Ninety Hour Workweeks Brett: My, my dentist was doing was doing small talk with me, and he knows I’m a app developer and he asked me, so how many hours a week do you work? And I happen to know the answer because I had just read my timing app report for last week and I said, 90. And he said, oh wow. How much do you make? And he’s like, if you don’t mind me asking. So I told him and uh, it saying it out loud, it’s basically like 20 bucks an hour I get paid. And like, it’s not nothing, but once these apps are out and I can sit back and just make some passive income off of it, I will, I’ll be much Jeff: So it’s 90 because you’re, you’re developing multiple things right now and, and you love it. Brett: I’m pretty much, I’m pretty much on my machine all day except for like an hour for [00:41:00] like getting out, exercising, getting on my recumbent bicycle and an hour for eating. Um, Jeff: Is it time for you to get a trike? I’m serious. Brett: I don’t, I don’t know, I, I actually want to try just getting back on a regular bicycle. Jeff: Hmm. Brett: Um, but I, yeah, like a recumbent tricycle, that’d be pretty awesome. Jeff: dad uses him. He actually just converted one to an to an E-bike. Plus it’s hot now ’cause of DTF St. Louis. Christina: right. Jeff: Awesome. Uh, is that it for your app development because wow, that’s like, uh, quite a, quite a deal. You got anything else in the cooker? Brett: Well, like we talked about blog book. Right? Jeff: Yep. Brett: Okay. Yeah, that’s, that’s what I got. Jeff: Nice. Brett: that’s my big ones. NV Ultra Vaporware Woes Brett: NV Ultra is, um, literally only waiting on me to [00:42:00] get Mark three out and then NV Ultra will be out. And it is well passed a time when it would’ve been a smash hit. Um, when, when Nv, when NVL first started dying before, uh, before something like obsidian really Christina: I was gonna say, if sitting is unfortunately Brett: yeah, they obsidian and five or six other apps have really eaten up market share for, uh, NV Ultra. But it would be nice just to get it published. I have been talking about a replacement for NV for over a decade, and Jeff: Am I gonna get sued if I say this is not your fault. Brett: It’s, it’s not my fault, like none of them have been my fault. Like they’ve all fallen through on me. Um, but I think people don’t believe me anymore when I say it’s coming. In fact, it, in fact, if you ask an AI agent, they will tell you that MB Ultra is vaporware.[00:43:00] Christina: Well, Jeff: a lot ai. Christina: I mean, look at this point, even though yeah, it’s been in beta and you’ve had other things going on. I mean, like it, you know, again, it wasn’t your fault, but, but, but you know, we’ve all been in those situations where you’re like, it’s coming, it’s coming. Or this thing is like, at a certain point you’re like, okay. Like Brett: Yeah. Missing Collaborators Online Brett: Well that there was Bit Writer Christina: TechMate too. Brett: Bit Writer was one that preceded NV Ultra and I was working on that with David Halter, who was a co contributor on VT and. He disappeared. I don’t know if he died or what, but about years ago he just stopped replying to emails, disappeared off of Slack, disappeared from the internet. Just I, and I don’t ha I don’t know his next of kin. I don’t have anyone I can like ask, Hey, whatever happened to David. So if you’re out there, if you’re listening, I’d love to hear from you just to know you’re alive. Just to, just to [00:44:00] check in. Um, I’ve actually had a few people disappear over the last couple months that ha it’s been disconcert when, when you’re used to hearing from someone at least, you know, once a week even. But some of these people were like every day, um, I. Jeff: from them, meaning seeing them somewhere or corresponding or. Brett: Uh, online. These are, these are people I only know online. So like seeing them on Macedon or Facebook or getting emails or text messages from them. Um, a couple of them were in their eighties or nineties, and so it’s not, Jeff: That might be your problem. Brett: it, it’s not out of the realm of the possibility that they have passed on. Um, but some of them were younger than me and one of them has come back after two weeks of messaging, like every other day, like, Hey, are you okay? Haven’t heard from you. Um, finally they’re like, oh, yeah, I’m here. [00:45:00] And offered no explanation for where they’d been or why they went silent, but I didn’t pry either. So. Dan Peterson Secret App Jeff: What is your project with Dan Peterson? That’s on our, our list. Brett: I don’t know if I’m allowed to say a lot about it, but I’ve been working. Dan Peterson is one, the original designer of one password and worked with them for like 20 years before he struck out on his own. And we’ve teamed up, we’re working on a couple things, but one is a a, an IO iOS app that he has put in. I, I don’t even know how many hours into the design of it, like 3D modeling, spline rendering, and um, and then we ported it into an iOS interface. And it is gorgeous. It, it will it when, when it gets to market, which we’re hoping to have it in [00:46:00] testate in time for Max stock in July. Um, it’ll be the best looking app I’ve ever been a part of. It’s gonna be so cool. Jeff: Nice. Christina: That’s awesome. Jeff: Busy time. Brett: Yeah. Jeff: It’s Christina: That’s awesome. Jeff: What else do we got? I mean, Brett, you showed up with a big list. The Pit TV Complaints Christina: I was gonna, is anybody watching anything? Uh, good on TV or rewatching anything? Jeff: I have a serious complaint to put into the world, so I’ve avoided the pit for a long time. Uh, just ’cause I’m, I don’t, I’m not a huge like yeah, Brett: drama. Jeff: it is great. Except are there two separate writing teams for the stars and staff and the people that come in as patients? Because the writing for the people that come in patients is. Awful. They acting sometimes too. Sometimes there’s some people that sell it. I’m only through season one, uh, but I was like, I have been yelling at the tv, uh, about this [00:47:00] for some time. Um, besides also yelling at the TV for the point at which, um, our young friend with a w as a last name Whitaker, who, uh, gets blood all over his face and then they don’t actually immediately clean it up. Um, uh, so I yell at the screen and I like the show, but I yell. I haven’t had a TV show that I’m like, oh, for fuck’s sake now. I mean, I can handle that in The Walking Dead. I can handle that in that kind of movie. But in the ER thing I’m like, come on, you can’t get a writer to handle the patients. I don’t understand. You’ve got an incredible cast, like an incredible cast. Brett: It’s actually all ad-libbed. Jeff: all ad-libs, like the clown. There’s a clown, I won’t give it up, but there’s a, there’s a clown that has been through a mass event and he’s in the, uh, he’s in the ER with his clown makeup on still, and some blood going down his face and at some point he looks around and he goes, what a circus. I just think they, I think, I don’t understand. This confuses me very much [00:48:00] in TV shows when you’re like, okay, you’ve got a great writing team, but clearly you have a separate writing team that is doing just this little job that is actually quite important. So that’s my complaint about the pit. Otherwise, I like it quite a bit. I’m very excited to start season two, probably this weekend. Christina: it’s a good season. It’s a good season. So, yeah, ’cause, because, because I, I, I, um, it, it ended last week and I’m, I’m a big fan of the pit. I will say this, the pit fandom is insane and not in a good way. Like these are people who don’t understand how to watch television shows and don’t understand. Like how television shows work, and, and then also become very entitled about like, how, like their vision of the characters and things should be on a level. Like the last time I’ve seen it, it it’s the same, it’s similar with heated rivalry, but it’s somehow worse because this isn’t like a genre show like that. It’s like low quality for like, you know, middle aged like white women, um, in the suburbs. Um, who, who just like to see two, two hockey players. [00:49:00] You know? Fuck. Um, like, like the pit is actually like, I’m not gonna call it Prestige TV because it’s not er level, but it’s a very good show and it’s extremely well acted. And I think the writing, um, I, I think make a good point about the, uh, the patients not getting as good of storylines as the doctors. But, um, Jeff: no. I don’t need storylines. I Christina: no, I I mean the Jeff: words they Christina: Yeah. Yeah. No, that, that’s, that, that, that that’s what I mean, like, like that, that, that, that I, I, I hear, I hear your Jeff: Because where there’s a patient storyline, those are almost exclusively great. Christina: Yeah, it, so you’re more talking about like, like, like the kind of the background characters, like, kind of like the, the, the one-offs. Yeah, I think, I think that’s fair. Well, a lot of the writing staff and like executive producers are doctors or people who have like, you know, worked, um, extensively in healthcare. And so I, I, I wonder if like, that’s kind of part of it, um, where Brett: they’re really good at writing the doctor’s parts. They’re not so good at Jeff: so good. Oh my God, so Christina: so good at doing the doctor’s parts and, and the procedures. Like they wanna be medically [00:50:00] accurate and like they really, they really are committed to that. There are, um, there are a couple of, I’m trying to think, um, the, the Whitaker thing, I think that was just, I enjoyed that myself. Like the fact that he’s always getting blood Jeff: Oh, I loved the bit, I just couldn’t believe that. I couldn’t believe that through quite, you know, a couple of different bits after that. The blood’s still on his face. I’m like, there has to be a protocol to get blood off your face. Christina: No, there definitely has to be, but I mean, part also one of the running gags first season two. And, and sorry for spoilers, for anyone who hasn’t watched the pit Jeff: Wait, I’m gonna close my ears. Okay. Go ahead. Wave when you’re done. Christina: Rob Robbie can’t pee. And, uh, this wasn’t a real spoiler, but like, but one of the things is like, you know, Robbie’s never able to like, go to the bathroom. Like he can never find a way to pee. So Jeff: I’m back. Brett: you’re safe now. Jeff: I’m back. Christina: you, you’re safe. And I didn’t spoil anything. I was ER Nostalgia and Cast Jeff: The other thing I’ll say about the pit that surprised I did not watch ER and not ’cause out of bad attitude. Uh, it was just a point in my life when I wasn’t watching a lot of tv. Um, I also didn’t realize until I was [00:51:00] like five episodes in that Noah Wiley was a big character in er. I think that’s really cool. Um, Christina: Okay. Okay. I, I understand you weren’t watching TV then, but how did you not realize that Noah Wiley was Jeff: I didn’t know Noah Wiley’s name. Like I, this is just not, I don’t hold names of people. I, you know, I also, on the albums, I love that. I don’t remember song, I don’t know song titles half the time. Um, so I don’t mind You can, you can be very disappointed and express it. And I will accept it. I will receive it. Christina: No, I’m just shocked Jeff: to be better. Christina: because I, I mean, ’cause because I was like 10 years old when ER came out and like, I don’t know, like they were like, that was the number one show on television Jeff: Totally. And I mean, Clooney, come on. I know Clooney. Christina: course Clooney, but, but like, but it was Clooney. It was, but but like the, the, the, the, the original, it was Clooney, it was uh, uh, Sherry Stringfeld, it was um, um, uh, Eric Lesal. It was Juliana Margolis, it was Noah Wiley, and it was Anthony Edwards. So like, Jeff: Oh, my favorite Timber Christina: and I was gonna say ironically going into when er came out, like the, the name was Anthony [00:52:00] Edwards, like, he was like number one on the call sheet, right? Like Clooney I think was like four. Um, and, and then, and then Clooney because he’s a good guy, like blew the fuck up and then still did them a solid and did like a full freaking five years on that show, Jeff: Yeah, which is awesome. Christina: he did not, David, David Caruso, it like David Caruso, who famously like had one, you know, big season of NYPD Blue fucks off to go do a movie career. The movie career implodes, there’s a clause in his contract because A, b, C was so furious about how the way he quit NYPD Blue, that they were like, okay, well you can’t do any television for x number of years. And then his movie career dies and then he has to like come like hat in hand to like CSI Miami. Jeff: Yeah. Yeah. Well I love the pit and this thing that surprised me is the thing I always stayed away from is like I can handle gore in almost every context except real life. And so like I can do all the gore of the Walking Dead. I can do all the gore of Game of Thrones or something, but like, I was like, I don’t know if I want, [00:53:00] yeah. Gore. I love it. I mean, I love it. ’cause I’m fascinated. I’m just fascinated. I’m like, oh, that’s what it looks like when you do that. Like, right. Like you just snip the fingertip off. That’s what it looks like when you do that. Like, Christina: no, Jeff: the first Christina: they show some of the stuff, Jeff: yeah, the first half. I did this every time I covered my face whenever it was like that. And then all of a sudden I could handle it. And I was like, this is fascinating. This is totally Christina: What episode are you, are you up to? How many do you Jeff: I actually, I only have 15 left. I have the last episode left. Um, and unfortunately, like we’ve had, like my brother’s, not unfortunately, my brother’s been, we had stuff every night until late for like three or four days. And I’m so ready to watch that thing. And now, now my wife’s going outta town, so I’m not sure we’ll even see it for another week. It’s making me crazy. Brett: are you watching it together? And you have to wait for her. Jeff: Yeah. Well, and we, and, and sometimes it’s easy for us to find a show together and sometimes there’s just a long dry spell. And so it’s also just like nice. It’s just nice to have a show together always. Um, and so it’s the combination of like, that’s just nice to do and I’m right at the end and I’m just ready to Christina: And you just wanna do that together? [00:54:00] Yeah, no, it makes sense. Season Two and Other Shows Christina: Um, I, I’m, I’m curious to see what you’ll think of season two. Um, I, I, um, it’s, it’s different in some ways. It doesn’t have like the, the, I’m not spoiling anything, but like, it doesn’t have like a big like, catalyzing event, like, like season one does. Um, but I still think it’s, it’s really good TV and, uh, yeah, definitely one of my favorite shows, um, hacks is Back for its final season. That’s definitely one of my favorite Brett: That Jeff: I never Brett: good. I, I finished season one. Um, I think there’s three seasons or is there more? Christina: This, it is now in its fifth season. Yeah. Brett: Okay. Yeah. I, I finished season one and then kind of forgot about it, and then I just saw some trailers for the new season and thought, oh, I should get back into this. It looks, it looks like it, it, it looks like it did well, um, Christina: No, I mean, shrinking. Yeah. Brett: I was gonna say, the new season of shrinking is really good too. Christina: Yeah, it is. Yeah. Um, well, well, uh, bill Lawrence is, is, uh, who created that and he created Scrubs and Spin City and [00:55:00] some other things. Like he’s, he’s really, really, um, good. He also did Rooster, which is now on HBO Max. Um, but, oh, the Scrubs Revival. Speaking of, of new shows, I don’t know if it’s gonna get like renewed because it hasn’t been renewed yet. And so I’m a little bit concerned that it hasn’t been renewed yet, and I only did nine episodes for the first season. But the, the Scrubs reboot, revival, whatever you wanna call it, and I say this is somebody who was a huge scrub fan. I, I don’t consider the, the final season to be scrubs like that. It is not part of Canon to me. Like, I feel like that, that, that wasn’t it, but I thought they actually did an amazing job, um, with the, with the reboot. Like I actually. And, and it was hard for them too because John c McGinley is on Rooster and, um, uh, Judy Reyes is on, um, uh, high Potential. And, um, so, you know, the only like, you know, main characters from the original that they have back in every single episode [00:56:00] are, um, uh, Elliot, JD and Turk. Um, but, uh, and then, and then you see, you know, kind of like, like Carla just isn’t in the office sometimes, but she has some guest appearances. Um, but they actually managed to, to do this, they managed to do like a next generation type of story, but still focused on like the main characters you love, but still kind of bring in like new younger doctors in like a way that I’m genuinely really impressed with how they did it. And, and like it kept the heart and kind of the, the feel of the original, like I, it, it was, I was very, very impressed that they were able to recapture. What made that show so good, um, for, its, I guess they’re calling it its 10th season, but, um, I, I really hope that it comes back because that’s a really good show. Brett: Speaking of reboots, um, they’re rebooting, um, Malcolm in the middle, Jeff: I Christina: Yes, they did. [00:57:00] Yeah. They did a four episode thing. Brett: but what I saw an, I saw Hot ones versus with, um, uh, Frankie Muni and whatever. How Christina: Yeah. Brian Cranston. Who, Brian Cranston. Who, who was, who was the, the father of, of, of Mel King on the pit. Brett: Oh, there you go. Jeff: is so cool. I love her so much. Brett: but anyway, they’re talking about why Dewey wouldn’t come back and basically he was like, I haven’t acted since I was nine. He’s like, he is busy. He is got a life Christina: He’s in grad school, like he went to Harvard and stuff like, like, he’s like, uh, I, which I, I love. And I’m like, okay. You know, I mean, I would’ve loved to see Joey too, but I don’t blame him for being like, no. Brett: Yeah. Jeff: Yeah. Yeah. Brett: neither, neither did the other actors, I don’t think. I think, uh, it, it wasn’t necessary to Christina: no, I was gonna say he wasn’t because Brett: the Yeah, Christina: mean, look, they were able to do Fuller House without the Olson [00:58:00] twins who were a much bigger part of that show Jeff: Fuller Christina: ever was. And, and I, I, I’m not even like defending Fuller house. Like it was, it was fine. It was whatever. But like, even that, you were like, there were enough characters where you’re like, okay, so, so Michelle isn’t here. And that would’ve been weird, to be honest. I don’t think that, like I know that everybody would’ve loved having the cameo, but it’s like, how in the hell are you gonna have the Olson twins, like as adults, even in a cameo on Fuller House without just completely taking you out of the whole thing. You know what I mean? Brett: Yeah. Christina: Like, it just, it just wouldn’t be possible. But Gratitude App Picks Brett: we try to fit in a gude before Jeff: Should we grab, Christina: yeah. Let’s do a gratitude. Brett: Um, I can kick it off. I got one I’m excited about. Um, found this app called Bezel. Um, I needed to do iOS screenshots and I needed to do iOS recordings, and I played around with using Screen flow and screen Studio and Camtasia, and I didn’t like [00:59:00] any of the ways that they recorded iOS movies. And then I found Bezel and I mean, c So screen recording built into iOS, in my opinion, is better than any of the like screen casting apps can do. Um, but bezel, if you, if you hard co hardwire your phone to your computer and turn on screen, mirroring it can record. Perfect. Um. iOS recordings, and it’s really good at just taking screenshots with a single key key command. You get a screenshot with a bezel like the outline of the phone and a desktop background behind it. So I can just hit command S as I like, move through my phone, uh, and then my right hand on my phone, my left hand on my keyboard, and I can get a dozen iOS screenshots in five minutes, and they’re ready to go, like ready to [01:00:00] publish. It’s really nice. Jeff: That’s really awesome. I’m gonna try that. Christina: Same, same. Do you have one Brett, or do you want me to, or uh, Jeff do or do you want me to go. AI Tools and Claude Code Jeff: Uh, I’m happy to go. Um, so this is, this is, uh, an easy one in a way, but I, I wanna be specific about what’s been so useful. So I’ve been using cloud code and vs code forever. I mean for the last, I’d say two or three months. ’cause I’ve got really, really deep into using cloud code actually for qualitative work. Um, but also a totally bananas project I built that has both a. Physical component and a heavy duty code component, which I’ll talk about sometime. Um, but, um, I, and I’ve used the desktop app for cowork and for like just the standard chat and I’ve loved that, but I never used it for cloud code until this latest update, which added like a really amazing interface for cloud code. Um, which is kind of my gratitude is that tab of the desktop app, which like, when you open it up, it gives you like just an awesome little like, work summary of like comedy sessions [01:01:00] you’ve had, how many total tokens you’ve used, like overall the last 30 days, the last seven days, what your peak hour is your longest streak. It has the like GitHub, like little chart that fills in. Um, and, uh, and, and that’s like been really cool to see. Um, and you can also see your usage of various models. It’s just a nice little thing that pops up. And then when you’re actually working, it’s really amazing because you can pull up these sidebars that have like diffs or like a preview or you can just get a terminal open in there. Um, and I have. I have loved that. I still like feel more at home in the VS.

Jeff and Christina are out of pocket this week, so Erin Dawson heroically steps in to keep the show afloat during trying times. Life, religion, dating, blogging… an everything bagel of a show. Sponsor Copilot Money can help you take control of your finances. Get a fresh start with your money for 2026 with 2 months free when you visit try.copilot.money/overtired. Chapters 00:00 Erin 00:04 Introduction and Guest Introduction 00:44 Siri Mishap and Water Troubles 05:20 Mental Health and Daily Struggles 11:00 Physical Health and Exercise Challenges 18:45 Productivity Tools and Sponsor Message 21:57 Sponsor Break: Copilot Money 23:59 On Aging 24:53 Vision and Aging 26:55 Intelligent Design and Evolution Debate 28:58 Blogging and Social Media Verification 29:13 The Cost of Verification 30:18 Embracing the Content Game 33:12 Exploring Blogging Platforms 48:10 The Decline of Blogging 50:54 Navigating Employment and Content Creation 55:54 The Art of Dating and Bits 58:30 Wrapping Up and Final Thoughts Show Links Gestimer In Your Face Ghost Join the Conversation Merch Come chat on Discord! Twitter/ovrtrd Instagram/ovrtrd Youtube Get the Newsletter Thanks! You’re downloading today’s show from CacheFly’s network BackBeat Media Podcast Network Check out more episodes at overtiredpod.com and subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your favorite podcast app. Find Brett as @ttscoff, Christina as @film_girl, Jeff as @jsguntzel, and follow Overtired at @ovrtrd on Twitter. Transcript Erin [00:00:00] Introduction and Guest Introduction Brett: Hey, welcome to Overtired. It’s me, Brett Terpstra. Um, Christina and Jeff are both out this week, but I have Erin Dawson here to fill the void. Hi, Erin. How you doing? Erin: Hi Brett. I’m well. How are you? Brett: I’m, I’m, I’m okay. So before, like, for people that haven’t tuned in with an episode with you before, give your, give yourself a brief introduction. Erin: Hey folks, my name is Erin. I, uh, make art under the name Genital Shame. I’m based in Los Angeles, California, and I used to work with Brett Terpstra. Siri Mishap and Water Troubles Erin: I’m doing, I’m doing, uh, you know, that broadcast voice, but I’ve started to. When I’m using CarPlay, I’ve started to speak to Siri in my own Siri kind of as a bit, but I really enjoy doing it.[00:01:00] Hey Siri, play REM. Oh shit. It just, I shouldn’t have done that. I’m so sorry. That activated mine. Um, oh no. And now my home pods are doing it. Can you hear that? Brett: I can Erin: I literally have to turn that off now. I really apologize. Ready? Brett: we’ll wait. Erin: Anyways, that’s, this is a shit show. Okay. I’m turning it off. Uh, that’s who I am. I’m someone who activates, um, the, the dingus. Brett: activates digital assistance. That’s amazing. Um, so update on me. I got water back after four and a half days with no running water. Um, but now I’m showering and washing dishes like a pro. Erin: Oh my God, I’m so that, that truly sounds horrific. Brett: It was, you don’t realize exactly how much of your life [00:02:00] revolves around just running water. Um, it’s true of like anything, when your power goes out, when your internet goes out, when your water goes out. We’ve had all of those things happen frequently over the last year. Um, and you, you realize exactly like how handicapped you are without these kind of. The modern conveniences we take for granted? Erin: Did your pipes break? Brett: No, uh, they did freeze. Uh, the solution to the water problem was heat lamps on the well pump. On the on the pipe, the underground pipe that goes from the well pump into the house is about a foot underground, and that’s where the freeze happened. So we had heat lamps on the ground for two days while we were waiting for a plumber to show up. We just decided to try heating things up and after two days it finally creaked [00:03:00] into life, and then we ran a bunch of water and got it all cleared out. And then you Erin: have a TLC show. Now you’re Brett: you know, Erin: solving Pioneer Living. Uh, Brett: You know what happened because of that, to flush the toilet while that was happening, we were melting snow on the stove and on the fireplace and dumping it into the toilet. But when I first started, I didn’t know you could just dump like a gallon and a half of water into the bowl and it would flush. So I was filling the tank up, which takes about twice as much water. And because I was doing that, I was putting a bunch of silt from the snow. Into the tank. So the little, the rim holes around the inside of the rim of the toilet where the water swirls in those filled up with silt. So once we got running water again, the toilet wouldn’t flush all the way. And I had to go in with a coat hanger and try to clean out all of those holes in the toilet. And I got it [00:04:00] clean and it flushed all the way twice and now it’s. Stuck again because I’m just pushing shit in with the coat hanger. And the silt Erin: by shit you mean you mean silt. Brett: silt? Yes. The, the, the silt is still there and as the water runs it just fills the holes again. And I don’t yet know how to fix that, so that’s gonna be a thing. That’s what I’m doing after this. ’cause, uh, the toilet. It sounds like it flushes all the way, but then you leave and the next person comes in and says, oh my God, why didn’t you flush? Because you know there’s floaters in the toilet. Erin: I. Just watched a Todd Salons movie and, and there is a scene in which, um, a character is, is being sort of abused by her family and the abusive family says, we’re laughing with you, not at you. And she [00:05:00] says, but I’m not laughing. You know, and I apologize. I don’t mean to laugh, but that, that sounds truly horrific. Brett: Yeah, that, Erin: I mean, the shower alone, I, I don’t know about you. I use showers to process, Brett: sure. Erin: you know, showers and walks. That’s where I do it most. Mental Health and Daily Struggles Erin: And like I, yeah, I need it to, this is a very 2019 way to frame mental health, which we can pivot to. Um, but I use it to regulate. Do you remember when we used to say, I feel unregulated? We don’t say that anymore. Brett: I do remember. That was a while ago. Erin: Yeah, it’s 2019 to me, but it maybe had a shelf life beyond that. I don’t know. Brett: Yeah. Erin: but yeah, I use showers to regulate. So even if you’re kind of like me, I, my heart goes out to you that that is really not just inconvenient, but like bad for your mental health. Brett: Your quote reminded me [00:06:00] of an and or quote that’s been going around where it, it’s so, uh, I can’t remember who, but someone says, uh, if you’re doing nothing wrong, what do you have to fear? And the response is, I fear your definition of wrong. Erin: Mm. Brett: I’m like, yeah, nope, that, uh, that’s very apropos to the current situation in Minnesota. Um, but yeah, let’s do mental health. Tell me about your mental health. Erin: Yeah. Uh, I’ve seen better days have been the star of many plays. Do you remember that song, Brett? Brett: No, I don’t know what you’re talking about. Erin: All right, cool. Um, I don’t believe in resolutions because I, I went to college, but, but I do believe in the power of January as a moment of. [00:07:00] Intentional reflection and yeah, goal setting, which can be different than resolutions. And for this January, January, 2026, I put a lot of pressure on myself to sort of remake my physical life, which I hoped would have knock on effects for my mental life. So what’s that mean for me? Every year for the last three or four years, I have done dry January dj, and in the past, the keto diet has worked well for me. So I thought in January that I would, with, with these powers combined, I would become, you know, a superhuman. I’m like 20, 26. I’m getting really, I’m gonna get really hot. And I’m going to [00:08:00] be very critical about the role that alcohol plays in my life. And what had happened was, without getting too much into it, I had a bad first week and it kind of snowballed, reverse snowballs. How does a snowball, what is it? I don’t know. It just got a lot of your, your, your toilet silt in it. Yeah. And, um, and I had no release valves for dopamine. Um, because on keto you’re not eating bread. You are not having sugar. I wasn’t having any alcohol. Um, also, and, and I’ll, I’ll shut up about this in a second. I have a foot injury. A right foot injury, something called turf toe, not TERF, but TURF. [00:09:00] Um, it’s basically what happens if you kind of stove your big toe. There’s a in the ball of your foot that’s like a repetitive stress injury. I’m not a p uh, podiatrist, but that’s, that’s my beat. Very basic understanding. And so what does all this mean? That mean this means that it was like a perfect storm of like. I can’t exercise and I exercise is really, plays a really huge role in my mental health. I am in two different basketball leagues, you know, uh, I take a lot of walks. I’m a runner. Couldn’t do any of that. And I couldn’t have Alfredo and I couldn’t have fornet. And so no wonder. And in hindsight with therapy, I’m like, yeah, no wonder I, I just didn’t have any release valves, um, for joy. So in the third week I’m like, fuck [00:10:00] it, I am gonna have fries and I’m going to have a tiki drink. And I don’t regret doing that, but I fear. That, and I think, I think you have this too, Brett, the like, puritan guilt, complex guilt for just like not organizing a particular corner of your fridge correctly, just like that level will give me, be like, oh man, I, I really do suck. Huh. Um, so that scales, you know, that feeling and that complex scales and so it’s easy for me to be like, man, I have no integrity. Huh? I really just. When I got tough, I just, uh, which is also an unhealthy way to think about things, but, um, but I’m, I’m kind of over it now. Uh, but uh, I was pretty disappointed in myself for a while there. I still kind of am. That’s how I’m doing. Brett: Wow, that sounds, that sounds pretty rough. [00:11:00] Physical Health and Exercise Challenges Brett: I, uh, I don’t, I, so I haven’t had a drink in as long as I can remember. Um, because I have a very short memory. It’s only been a matter of months, but, um, I do, I don’t miss drinking. I miss having that release. Um, and I, my only substitute has been CBD. Which is, you know, doesn’t do jack shit. Uh, it’s like a mental game for me. Um, have a, I I I’ve switched to drinking CBDT ’cause it’s way cheaper than like CBD carbonated beverages. Um, so for like 50 cents I can have a mug of five milligrams of CBD and pretend I feel okay. Um, that’s. It’s alright. Um, I do, so my release has been consuming [00:12:00] these outshine coconut bars, which. I find a perfect blend of fatty and salty and sweet and, um, they, as of like two weeks ago, outshine has discontinued them, which had an outsized effect on my mental health. Erin: Yeah. Brett: I bought the last three boxes that were at the grocery store, and those lasted a little bit, and then I was down to two bars and I decided, I, I I would ration them. And night after night, I just looked at those bars, but I wouldn’t, ’cause if I ate one of them, that would mean I only had one left. So it’s easier for me to have two left. So I had two sitting in the fridge, and then yesterday l went to a different grocery store and I said, just on the off chance would you check. And she came home with seven [00:13:00] boxes, six to a box. So yeah, I, I got, I hugged her. They were not expecting it. I like jumped up, just effusively, Erin: What do you, I have never had even this affinity for like my favorite meal. What do you like about these bars? Brett: Oh my God. They just like, I don’t know my, they like dopamine rush, pupil, dilate. Um, Erin: D filled? Brett: no, they’re just sugar. It’s sugar and coconut. Sugar and coconut. Dairy free. Gluten-free. Like it’s a, it’s a sugary snack and. Uh, so I’ve been like my, I don’t know what happened. Uh, it somewhat coincided with my last weight gain, but not exactly. But now I can’t stand up for more than about five minutes. [00:14:00] Um, just like if I empty the dishwasher, the, the act of bending over a few times, I have to sit down and I have to recover for 10 minutes. My back just freezes up and I’ve gone through physical therapy and I have, I like push myself every time it happens. I like, without injuring myself, I try to push it and try to strengthen and nothing helps, like nothing changes at all. That combined with my dizziness, which is still a thing, means the only exercise I’m getting is like half an hour a day on a recumbent bicycle, um, which gives me leg exercise and a little bit of cardio and not much else, and it doesn’t seem to strengthen my back at all, and it doesn’t seem to help me sleep and I keep doing it because I have that guilt thing. If I don’t do anything then. I’m a piece of shit. Um, but [00:15:00] man, I, yeah, the coconut bars are like the only, the only way out. Erin: The Brett: all I’ve got. I’m working, I’m working on finding something new because seven boxes will last a while, but not forever. It’s still a finite amount. Um, Erin: of spring, maybe you Brett: yeah, no way. I eat, I eat a couple a day. Erin: Oh, okay. Brett: a once a week treat for me. Um, so, so I, I’m trying to like ration and I’m trying to find an alternative that is more healthy, not less healthy. Um, we’ll see. I’ll keep you posted. Erin: The guilt thing. I’m gonna, I’m gonna be thinking about the, uh, digital device dingus thing later, there are people for whom, you know, but wait back to the, the treats and living a treat based [00:16:00] lifestyle, which I’m really trying not to do. I’m really trying not to Brett: reinforcement. Erin: I think I, this is the second time I’m, I’m bringing up therapy, but I think I, I brought up that I live a treat based lifestyle up to my therapist and she didn’t, doesn’t love that paradigm of thinking. Um, but it’s kind of all I know. And for me, you know, given this month the treat that I have had before breaking. And now I’m in this habit, and now I’ve, I’m in a trap. I have taken two using, having heavy whipping cream in my coffee each morning. Um, and it’s like adding ice cream to coffee. And so I make my coffee and I have my heavy weapon cream, and I get my little frother that [00:17:00] looks like a vibrator. A very small vibrator, and I do vibrate heavy whipping cream with my coffee in a deli container. And that, unfortunately, I, I’ve tried going back to black coffee, which is my norm. Can’t do it now. I, I really, I’m trapped and unfortunately that is the height, that is the best part of my day. Brett: Do, do Erin: coffee. Brett: I have a suggestion? Um, have you ever tried barista blend oat milk? Erin: I don’t do oat milk. I’ll just say it. Brett: Okay. Erin: Yeah. Brett: It’s all I do. I, I like for me, whatever milk I’m used to is the milk. That’s good. Um, and like I got used to soy milk and everything else tasted crappy. And I got used to almond milk and then I finally like switched to oat milk, got used to that. And [00:18:00] now every other milk tastes terrible. But once Erin: Yeah. Brett: I switched to oat milk, I no longer could like make a good, um, like latte. And I like, it didn’t, uh, it didn’t foam at all. But then I found Barista Blend from C Calisa Farms, and it’s like a full fat oat Erin: Oh Brett: for as much fat as you can get out of oats. And it, it, it fros. You can put it in a steamer and get a nice big frothy latte out of it. Um, but just a suggestion. I can’t do the heavy cream, or I probably would just by lactose intolerance and Erin: Yeah. Brett: lactose allergy. Productivity Tools and Sponsor Message Erin: We talked about, I’m gonna try to combine two topics right now. We talked about Gude and you also suggested before we started recording that I stop you at a half hour [00:19:00] for the A read. We’re not quite there, but as soon as you said that, I pulled down on my. Menu bar, a little app called Just Timer. Brett: I love that app. Erin: Do you Brett: yes. Erin: I, I have, I do have not upgraded to the sequel. Just Timer two, I think it’s Brett: I haven’t tried that. Erin: I think I, I think I tr I did a trial Brett: It’s just such a good idea. Erin: it’s great. And so. have about nine minutes before you’re requested, but I, I just wanted to, I guess, shout out Jess Heimer because it rules. Brett: Yeah. No, it’s such, it’s so for anyone who hasn’t used it, it’s just a way to like, it’s almost like pulling a cord. To set a timer, and it’s just this simple, like you reach up to your menu bar and you just pull down and you pull down the amount you want and you let go and you’ve got a [00:20:00] timer running and it’ll remind you in that amount of time Erin: The main use case I had for that when we worked for the Borg together on the Borg team, was using text expander to, you know, if we had a meeting at three o’clock, I would pull it down for 2 55 and type. MTNG, and that would create a, a string that just says meeting in five exclamation mark. Um, it’s just, it’s just a great time saver and, and keeps you honest and yeah, it’s a great app. Brett: I, uh, I’ve written a lot of command line utilities, so I can like, just on the command line, I can just type, remind me five minutes and then a string, whatever to do, and it runs in the background and it uses like terminal notifier, whatever’s handy at the time to like pop up a reminder. But I kind of gave that up. So now I use just timer. And have you seen in your face. Erin: I don’t know in your [00:21:00] face. Brett: In your face ties into your calendar. You tell it to go off, say five minutes or one minute, or on the time, and anytime an event happens, it blocks out your screen. Pops up a little dialogue telling you what you’re supposed to be doing at that minute and you have to like say, join call or dismiss. And, um, ’cause I, I miss notifications all the time. And when we were working for the board, I would just completely miss meetings because I’d get into coding. I wouldn’t notice the little. Things in the corner, I’d be focused on code and I’d look up two hours later and be like, oh God, I gotta text someone. Sorry I missed the meeting. So in your face stops me from working and like, takes over the screen. Erin: That Brett: So those are, that was our gratitude. I’m gonna do a, a quick sponsor read. Sponsor Break: Copilot Money Brett: This episode is brought to you by [00:22:00] copilot money. Copi copilot money is not just another finance app. It’s your personal finance partner designed to help you feel clear, calm, and in control of your money. Whether it’s tracking your spending, saving for specific goals, or simply getting a handle on your investments. Copilot money has you covered as we enter the New year. Clarity and control over our finances have never been more important with the recent shutdown of mint and rising financial stress for many. Consumers are looking for a modern, trustworthy tool to help navigate their financial journeys. 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Download copilot money on your devices or visit, try. Do copilot domo slash Overtired today to claim your two free months and embrace a more organized, stress-free approach to your finances. Try that’s, try copilot money slash Overtired. On Aging Brett: Ugh. [00:24:00] people are, people aren’t gonna know how many edits I put in that. had a rough time with that one. Erin: Reading’s hard. Brett: I’m, I’m, I’m working on my two big displays. I have two, like 27 inch high def displays, but I, I’m used, I’ve been working on my couch on my laptop for months now. Um. Like Mark II was written entirely on my couch, not, not at this fancy desk I have. Um, and on this desk everything is about three feet away from my face, and I don’t have the resolution set to deal with the fact that my eyes are slowly turning to shit, so I can barely read what’s on my screen anymore. I have to like squint and lean in, and. Vision and Aging Brett: It is so weird that I, I’m told this is just a normal thing that happens at my age, but when I try [00:25:00] to read small print on something, I can’t see it. But if I lift my glasses up and remove my glasses, everything within a foot of my face is clear as day, and that never used to be the case. But now I can see way better without my glasses than with my glasses at very close range. Which means when I wear contacts I really can’t see either. They gave me a, a special kind of contact that the eyes are interchangeable. I have different prescriptions in each eye, but it doesn’t matter which. So the contacts are kinda like universal. I don’t know how it works, but they’re supposed to give you pretty good distance and pretty good closeup while not being especially good at either. And they’re okay. Um, I can’t really, I have to squint to read street signs and I have to squint to read medication bottles and I just spend a lot more time in glasses. Now. Erin: This is one of those [00:26:00] moments where I cannot relate, but I am here Brett: Do you have 2020 vision? Erin: I believe I do. Brett: Wow. Must be nice. Erin: It is nice and I’m gonna own that. Yes, I’m privileged. Ocularly, get off my back about it. Brett: I, I wasn’t giving a shit. I’m, I’m happy for you. I had 2020 vision up until I was about Erin: 2020. Brett: 10. Erin: Oh Brett: I got glasses when I was 10. I. Erin: mm. I bet you Brett: I guess no, I did not have 2020 vision. ’cause I remember at the age of 10 when I got glasses and realized that from a distance, trees had leaves, um, I was like, oh my God, I’ve been missing out on Erin: God is real, bro. Intelligent Design and Evolution Debate Erin: You know, Christians usually, I don’t know about you, but sometimes I, I grew up [00:27:00] with this idea that like. Intelligence, intelligent design is a thing because take something as incredibly complex as the human eye. Tell me that there wasn’t a designer for that, but also like if you’re over 30, like take something as complex as like the human back. it’s not that they’re not that they’re saying that eyes don’t have quality issued degradation over time. It’s a different argument, but it’s just like also like not everything’s that intelligent. I mean, Brett: but the other part that I grew up with was that our, we aged and our eyes went bad, and our back went bad because of sin. It was all like a result of the original sin, and according to like Young Earth creationists, like every generations of humans that get farther away from Adam and Eve. Get [00:28:00] are, are in worse health. They’re, they’re genetically deteriorating, uh, Erin: they’re genetically sinful. Brett: Yeah. And it, it is. I don’t know. It took a long time to unlearn a lot of that stuff, but my dad brings Erin: evil. Brett: it’s called the watchmaker argument. Um, and my dad brings it up anytime we start talking about evolution, which I generally avoid these days, but he brings up the idea of the, the eye, the human eye. Erin: They love the human eye. Brett: I explain to him the, the process of like light sensing cells on amoebas. Erin: Our skin Brett: how, and how they developed into maybe a light sensing cell with a water sack, and then that developed into over time a retina. And like it’s not designed. Um, dad, it, Erin: Oh dad. Brett: yeah. Erin: Anyways. Blogging and Social Media Verification Erin: Can I talk to you about [00:29:00] blogging? Brett: Could you please? Erin: Well, here’s, let me set the table so I not to brag. Became Instagram verified recently. Why? Brett: Must be nice. The Cost of Verification Erin: Yeah, Brett: More privilege. Erin: the first, the eyes are now $13 a month. I don’t know, I don’t know how the bank’s, you know, letting me spend all this, but, um, I did it because, as I said at the top, when the REM may have been drowning me out, I don’t know. Um, I make music under the name Genital Shame and. Over time, as my account has grown on that particular platform, I have had other people alert. I’ve had followers alert me that there’s a new genital shame that just popped up in their feed asking for, Hey, my account was just hacked. [00:30:00] Like, can you help? You know? And I just thought that like for $13 a month, you know Brett: That’s how they get you. Erin: That’s fine. Yeah, get me. I’ve, they already, they already got me. Um, unfortunately, Brett: Zuckerberg that cloned your account. Erin: I got sucked. Embracing the Content Game Erin: So I, so now that I’m verified, I’m, I’m kind of leaning into playing the stupid content game, which is this, which is how, here’s how I think about it. I believe in my art. I believe in what general shame is and I want the maximum amount of people to experience it. The maximum amount of people are in the primary world, which is to say the digital world and the folks with who would resonate with general shame the most are on a platform called Instagram. So it makes sense [00:31:00] for me to play the game, which is like get the. Aforementioned eyeballs on my stuff. ’cause again, I believe in it. So I’ll do whatever it takes. Inc. Like we live in the world of Caesar. We own to Caesar. What a Caesar, in this case, Zuckerberg is Caesar, whatever. So one of my January projects, you know the, the Capital G. Capital M, good month that I was supposed to have was to block out some ugh content. To record some videos, right? Some reels of me playing Bach, of me playing, um, my favorite carcass riff or whatever. And so I found myself writing little essays about each of these things. You know, for the Bach one, there’s, I started writing about how, you know, I don’t believe in God anymore really, but [00:32:00] if I was to cite one thing that gets me. Close to it, it would be Bach like. I’m not predictable like it is. It resonates with me so fundamentally and so deeply that like that is the one thing. And I ended up writing way more than can probably fit within an Instagram comment. And then I got bit by the bug, which is like, do I, should I? Extend this to a platform that is more appropriate for long form writing. So then I’m like, okay, Erin, be realistic about starting projects that you don’t finish or won’t be consistent with. So for me, I’m defining that as one blog per month seems reasonable enough. I don’t know, but I really, I’m a writer. When we were part of the [00:33:00] Borg, you know, we were writers partially, and I found that writing alongside these stupid reels was really satisfying. Exploring Blogging Platforms Erin: So then I’m like, okay, what in 2026, what levers do I have to pull? For this type of platform. We got Ghost, we got Tumblr kind of making it a comeback. We’ve got Substack, which has shitty politics. Um, I could do something on my GitHub pages or something if I wanted to, but I. Don’t know. I don’t know how to make this decision. This is, I, I’m just bringing this up as a topic. I don’t have anything further than that. I think you may have mentioned a platform that you like, but I just thought it might be interesting to talk about. Probably Brett: No, there are, there are a lot of options. I personally. Have gone the way of static site [00:34:00] generators like GitHub pages would be, um, and will probably never go back to anything that’s based on a database or requires an online subscription. Um, I just pay a few bucks a month for a shared host and our sync, my blog to it, um, which is a super nerdy way to blog. Um, but ultimately you get. A, a folder full of markdown files that you can do anything you want with, and you can turn it into a book. You could turn it into a searchable database in obsidian. Um, you could load it up in NB ultra and have full text, rapid search, and all these things that you can’t really do with something like WordPress or Ghost. Um, WordPress is still the heavyweight. as much as it’s kind of a beast and I don’t enjoy using it, um, but ghost, [00:35:00] I just, so I’ll tell you why I bring this up in a second. But, um, ghost seems like maybe the best intermediate option. Um, I, I don’t like blogger. I don’t like Google. Um, I don’t have a lot of faith in Tumblr. be, uh, to have longevity. That’s the other thing about a static site is. I am in full control, and if I want to sunset it at any point, I just cancel the domain. But as long as I have a web server, I have a website, and I’m not dependent on any service that, you know, showed up and failed to make a profit and then terminated, as we’ve seen multiple platforms do, um, or, or turn into like a heavily paywall system that is geared like medium. Substack where [00:36:00] ultimately it’s supposed to be a moneymaking endeavor for the writers and like I use my blog as a marketing tool, but I don’t expect a lot of people to pay to read my blog. That said, I am pay walling some content these days, um, just to get people to pitch in a few bucks a month because. I never got into Patreon or anything, but I’m building this tool. This is a side note. Um, I showed you the icon for it the other day, but I didn’t show you the tool. Um, it’s called blog book. And right now it works perfectly with WordPress, but I, this morning I’ve been working on adding Micro blog, which is another good option. Um, and it might, micro blog might actually be kind of, no, it’s not, it’s got like a 300 character limit for most posts. But, um, anyway, uh, [00:37:00] micro Blog and Ghost. I’m adding so that if you’ve had a blog for a couple years and you want some kind of hard copy. This app will pull in all of those posts, let you Filch them by author or by tag or category or a date range, and it’ll generate a markdown book for you. And you can load that up in Mark three, and you can create an eub that you could go sell if you Erin: Oh wow. Brett: Um, you could turn it into like a PDF for distribution or just for your own archiving. Um. I may add more platforms to it over time. Medium killed their API. Um, so I can’t, as much as I would love to have it work for Medium, I think it would be really useful for medium authors. Um, medium made that impossible, but, um, but yeah, I actually, I built that app in about a week and I’m gonna sell [00:38:00] it on the app store as kind of a companion to Mark three. Um, as like a one-time purchase, not a subscription. Um, but yeah, I, I love blogging and I love blogs. I’ve been blogging for 30 years and I, I don’t know what I would do for expression, ’cause I’m not, I, I, I use Mastodon and that’s about it for social media. Um, I still have, uh, uh. Instagram account and I log on and I, I love seeing your, your older reels where you would just like, just fuck around with a cord or a simple progression and the face you would make when you messed up. I love that. Erin: I’ve never messed up. I don’t know what you’re talking about. Brett: I would watch just to see you make that like grossed out face. Like, what the fuck sound was that? Um, um, [00:39:00] but. Yeah, I, social media is so ephemeral though. It’s, there’s no guarantee of your post being anything other than AI fodder and like, I left x, I left Twitter. Erin: Everything app. Brett: Yes. Um, completely deleted myself there. Um, deleted myself on threads. I still have a Facebook account. Um, Facebook and Blue Sky are actually surprisingly my political activity accounts. Um, Facebook is where I complain about billionaire. Um, about Zuckerberg’s and the what not. Um, and it’s where I share with my activist friends in the area, like it’s mostly for local people. And then Blue Sky is where I get like all my anarchists. News and all of the news right now from like the [00:40:00] front in Minneapolis, the people that are out there doing direct action and, and uh, mutual aid and seeing things live as they happen. And I never appreciated blue sky until the federal occupation of Minnesota and then suddenly it became my primary news source. Um, so Erin: pretty good for that. There’s a, there’s a journalist I follow there. I think she’s pretty, like the, the, the trans beat is her beat. Erin Reed. Um, she’s really great. Um, but you’re, you’re all, all that to say, I think blue sky functions really well. Yeah. As like a, a new, like, I canceled, I canceled my New York Times subscription, um, because god damn, Brett: Yeah. Erin: just their opinion section alone is just trash. Also, yesterday, um, you know, the time of this recording was, there was a protest in March yesterday, which very cool. I also. Canceled. The, [00:41:00] another, another dimension of that day was about, you know, anti consumption, not spending anything, not buying anything, and canceling subscriptions if you can. And yesterday I did cancel my prime subscription, which was hard to do. But, you know, I did, I and I, I was thinking about this a couple months ago before moving, but I was like, you know, I’m gonna move. I’m only human. Like the two day shipping thing is going to come in handy for real. Like ordering things to the new apartment knowing that it’ll get there. You know, I’m glad I did that. That’s cool. But like, now’s the time where I’m a little more settled and I can do that. And so I did that yesterday. Um, but anyways, blue sky’s cool for political stuff. Brett: I. I have been trying to cut Amazon out. I removed Alexa from my life entirely. Um, I had it, Alexa is a good [00:42:00] cheap solution for like whole home automation. Um, so, but I replaced that with home pods and, um, I only buy from Amazon if I absolutely can’t find something somewhere else. Um, because these days, because of competition with Amazon, almost every vendor will offer free shipping. Not always two day shipping ’cause they don’t have the infrastructure for that. Um, but, uh, but I’ll get free shipping and I’ll get comparable prices. And Prime doesn’t really save me anything anymore, and I never use Prime video and I’m Erin: terrible streamer. It’s a terrible streamer. Brett: I’m on the verge of canceling that as well, and once I do that, I will be mostly free of Amazon. Erin: That rocks do. I think that’s really cool. I, I was thinking about this the other day too, that like canceling Amazon [00:43:00] has knock-on effects that I think are really positive as well. For example, you know, I’m lucky to live in a city where, you know, I have within walking distance to me a lot of options. So if I needed packing tape or I needed. I don’t know, some pilot G twos or whatever, like instead of for let’s say, let’s say it’s a project specific thing, like I need a certain type of pen or whatever. Instead of being like, I will order these, do the two two day shipping and put off that project for when I have that tool. Instead, which shifts the nature of the project. Like on a project level, you’re thinking about differently already. And so instead, by not having the affordance to do that, I can get out of my house. That’s a good get sun. That’s another capital G. Good. See human beings interact with human beings, you [00:44:00] know, and then also do the project the same day and not give money. To AWS, which is the backend for a bunch of evil shit. Like, it just like, you know, it stacks. Brett: Yeah. Erin: So, I don’t know. Brett: Yeah. I don’t have options Erin: It’s a lot. It’s a privilege at see above, like I’m very ocularly privileged. Brett: Yeah, no, I, I mean, there are, there are some good. Stores in my little town. Um, we are, we are fortunate to have a community that will support some more esoteric type of stores. And I don’t shop at Target and I don’t shop at Walmart, so, um. I have to depend on the limited selection in small town stores, and a lot of times I can make due with what I can find locally. Um, but I do have to [00:45:00] order. Online a lot, which is why it’s been a slow process to wean off of Amazon. But Amazon is shit now too. Like you, it seems like you have selection, but you really don’t. It’s just a bunch of vendors selling the same knockoff thing and, uh, you don’t save any money if you’re buying like an original version of a product that Amazon didn’t already like bastardize and undersell, um, or undercut the seller on. Um, and it’s so much low quality and they tell you every time you buy Prime tells you you’ve saved $5 with Prime, but if you went to the actual vendor website, you would’ve saved that $5 anyway. Um, it’s shit. Amazon is shit, but yeah. So anyway, about, about, yeah. Erin: Um, uh, go ahead. Brett: I was gonna ask that we, we kind of trailed off on the blog discussion, but I just wanted to say [00:46:00] like, if you have questions about any platform or you do wanna do like a static site, I’m more than happy to help. Erin: Thanks Brett. I think I was gonna, I might take you up on that I, another direction I was going to go with this is like, I could also see someone saying like, systems order thinking. Like, what is your goal? Like, who is this for? And that’s also where I have some internal resistance because I’m on the precipice of being a douchey content creator or something in which this fits in. being cute about it, but like this fits into an ecosystem of like maybe a new career pivot for me. ’cause we’re not part, part of the Borg. So like I’ve started teaching guitar, like I went to school for music. I used to teach guitar a lot, classical and jazz guitar, and I haven’t done it for like 15 years. I just started doing that again and I can’t believe. [00:47:00] A couple things. How good I am at it. I’m a natural, like I, it sucks to be good at something, but you know, it, it doesn’t pay at all. So it’s like, um, so a couple things like do I want to start teaching again and do I want a blog to sort of be part of a funnel into a Patreon? And do I want the Patreon and. All these questions, you know, start forming around this. Like, well, I just want a blog. It’s like, why, why do I wanna blog? And I, I don’t think I have to have the answers to those questions right now. I don’t. But it seems like the choices you make, the very, like the zero width choice you make for a tool like this is really important. So that’s, that’s the other kind of. I’m having [00:48:00] internally about it, who cares? Like all the stakes. Ultimately, who, who gives a shit? Like, there are no stakes here. But I, I do think about it as a sort of like, you know, The Decline of Blogging Brett: I, I will say that everything about my career is due to blogging. Like since, since like the year 2000, um, every job I’ve gotten has been because people found me via my blog. Um, and when I have like applied for a job, they’ve used my, they’ve been like, oh, we went and read your blog and we think you’re a great candidate. Erin: But don’t you think the excuse my use of this term, the meta around blogging has changed? Or do you think it’s like that stalwart Brett: it, it, it really has like tremendously. Um, Erin: like just to be crude about it. Okay. Brett: Yeah. So like in, uh, maybe. [00:49:00] 2015, I was doing about a hundred thousand page views a week. Um, right now I’m down to more like, I think last time I checked I was doing like 8,000 page views a week. And if I look at the charts, it’s just been a steady downward trend. Um, people are not you, pe so, okay. That said, I still get about 30,000. Hits a week from RSS, which means there’s, for a nerd, for a tech site, for a tech blog. Like there’s still an audience that uses the ancient technology, RSS, um, and I get a lot of traffic from that. But in general, like social media has eaten my lunch as far as blogging. But that said, like, the only reason anyone knows who I am, and I’m not saying I’m famous, but like I, I Erin: I’ve been to Max. [00:50:00] You you have an aura? Yeah. Brett: and uh, it’s all because of 30 years of blogging. And I think, honestly think it takes like 10 years just to build up a name. So it’s not like a, oh, I’m gonna start a blog for my shop and everything’s gonna take off, Erin: Yeah, I think, I think if you, for, for the employment alone, it might, it might be worth it, I think. I think that’s huge. Like, you know, the Borg or Pre Borg, a OL where, you know, like if, if, if they were like, oh my God, yeah, you’re Brett Terpstra from Brett TURPs. Uh, like that’s worth it even if you’re getting zero clicks and they found, you know, Brett: What do you Nell from the movie Nell? Um, did you Did what? Oh. Did you give up on finding, uh, gainful employment? Navigating Employment and Content Creation Erin: no. But I give I [00:51:00] gainful employment. Um, no, but I’m taking it a little sleazy and I’m taking it a little easy. Um, unfortunately, it is a truth universally acknowledged. My version of every gainful employment that I’ve, that I’ve enjoyed is through blogging. My version of that is any. Job at that level that I’ve enjoyed has started with a dm. It’s never started with a, a shot in the dark application through Workday. Like it’s just, and I’m convinced that that’s true for everyone. Like I suspect that’s maybe the dark truth that. The it, it’s not what you are or what you can do, it’s who you know, unfortunately is an organizing principle for anything in life basically. And [00:52:00] being under someone’s employee is probably no different. So on one hand, the Puritan. Really creeps up on me here. On one hand, I’m like, oh, I’m not really spending a lot of time crafting my portfolio. I’m not really spending a lot of time crafting my resume and tailoring it to this position. I should really be doing that. I, the economy is be, my bank accounts are really behooving me to do that. But on the other hand, I’m balancing it with that truth, which is. waiting for the dm. I’m sending dms. I can play that game if I want, and I’m kind of trying to, but only to get the guilt monkey off my back, not because I have good. It’s a good faith bid for the universe, for some HR hiring manager, whatever, to be like, okay, I’m gonna Filch by this. I’m Filch by this. This is a cool candidate. It won. I’m convinced it won’t [00:53:00] happen like that. I could be wrong, and maybe that’s the case for you too, but like it’s more of a personal connection off of CRMs, know? Brett: I, uh, I stopped panicking. My, my app income is sufficient right now to survive, and I’m working to make it more than just survival. And like over the, over the course of a few months, I sent out prob, probably 150 resumes, like shots, shots in the dark. But I had, I had referrals, multiple referrals from. AWS Google, apple, like meta, like I had people at all of these places and I still, I could barely get a response. Um, I would apply for jobs I was wholly qualified for. I would, Erin: Probably overqualified Brett: I would craft the resume. I would take my time, and I wrote a different resume for each, at least [00:54:00] for the big ones. And, yeah. Yeah, I did it all. I had a whole, I had a whole workflow, an automated workflow where I could just write like in markdown and then hit a button. It would generate like a nice PDF that I could Erin: God damn right. Yeah. Brett: Um, and none of it, it didn’t do any good. And eventually I just stopped wanting it. Um, I would much rather just make my own way at this point. I couldn’t. I can’t wrap my head around being in a corporate environment anymore. I just don’t, I don’t wanna play that game. I want the money, I want the steady paycheck, but I just, I can’t play the game. Erin: Is the game to you doing the like, um, dom sub theater of like, I must respect my manager. My manager knows the way, even if they’re wrong, I ch raise my, you know, objections lest I Brett: know me, you know, I objected all the time. [00:55:00] I, I was full of objections and I, I don’t like, I don’t like the, I don’t like sitting in meetings. I don’t like pretending to care about someone else’s project. Erin: That’s it. That feels wrong to you, I feel like. Is that right? Yeah. Brett: Yeah. Erin: Yeah. I’m happy to do that for Brett: I’m not an employee. I can’t. Erin: Yeah. I don’t identify as an employee. I heard someone say, I think around. Last year’s pride as a bit, um, that we need to add con a content creator, stripe and color to the L-G-B-T-Q-I-A flag. And when I said that, I repeated that as I just said to you, to someone, and they didn’t laugh. I was like, oh no. Why have I surrounded myself with your life? Go away from me anyways. The Art of Dating and Bits Erin: I was on a date the other day. Brett: Yeah. Erin: And, um, Brett: Must be nice.[00:56:00] Erin: date privilege. Yeah. Being single. Mm. Love it. And, um, you know, I’m very sensitive to people who don’t do bits. Uh, I have an allergy to like selfer people. And, and this woman who was in like so attractive, like so attractive did a power move where she was like, we, we met at a coffee shop. And she was like, whatcha gonna get? I was like, oh, I’m gonna get a nice espresso. And when she went to order and I thought we were gonna do Dutch or whatever, she ordered her thing and then she was like, and a nice espresso as well. And I was like, oh, hot, cute. You harvested me for information and then used that as a power thing anyways, so that it was going well. But then we started talking and I was like, oh, she’s not really picking, I’m giving her, it’s like some like B [00:57:00] plus material and she’s not really responding at all. And we were talking about, I find it helpful on dates to acknowledge that we’re on a date and that we met on a dating app. So one way that I did this on this date was to say like, I saw someone with this word in their profile. What do you think it means? And the word was, or the phrase was, the desire was that they like to be corded, which I. I, I didn’t, I got into a sort of like debate with my other friend about what that means, what that means when someone puts that and they’re pan like, is that gendered, is that like a power thing? Is that like a noble abl thing? Like what is that? So we started talking about what it means to be courted on a date and she said something like, you know, a part of it too is probably that they like to be whined and dined. And I was like, in 69. She gave me nothing. I was like, [00:58:00] oh no, I forget why I brought this up. Um, Brett: I forgot too. Um, I like, I like that you associated corded with noble abl just. Erin: uh, Brett: As like a matter of course there, um, maybe they wanna gesture. Erin: oh, I think I brought it up because. I said that content creators deserve Brett: Mm, right, right, right. The bits we’re talking about Erin: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, Wrapping Up and Final Thoughts Brett: All right. Well, you gotta get going. I know we have like eight minutes. Erin: ooh, Brett: So we should give you some time to prep for whatever it is you’re cutting us short for. I’m not kidding. I’m just kidding. It’s like fif. We’re 58 minutes in. This is good. This was a good episode. Thank you so much for coming. Erin: I just did it ’cause I wanted to catch up with you to be Brett: Yeah. I feel like this was good. This was good for that. Erin: Yeah. Brett: Yeah. Erin: Thanks Brett. Brett: Well, good luck with everything. [00:59:00] been fun. Erin: Say the line. Brett: Get some sleep. Erin: Get some sleep. Brett, I.

Join Christina Warren and Brett Terpstra as they navigate the freezing Minnesotan cold without running water, delve into the intersection of tech and political turmoil, and explore the latest in AI agents and multi-agent workflows. Dive into a whirlwind of emotions, tech tips, and political ranting, all while contemplating the ethics of open source funding and AI coding. From brutal weather updates to philosophical debates on modern fascism, this episode pulls no punches. Sponsor Copilot Money can help you take control of your finances. Get a fresh start with your money for 2026 with 2 months free when you visit try.copilot.money/overtired. Show Links Crimethinc: Being “Peaceful” and “Law-Abiding” Will Not Stop Authoritarianism Gas Town Apex OpenCode Backdrop Cindori Sensei Moltbot Chapters 00:00 Introduction and Host Updates 00:21 Brett’s Water Crisis 02:27 Political Climate and Media Suppression 06:32 Police Violence and Public Response 18:31 Social Media and Surveillance 22:15 Sponsor Break: Copilot Money 26:20 Tech Talk: Gas Town and AI Agents 31:58 Crypto Controversies 37:09 Ethics in Journalism and Personal Dilemmas 39:45 The Future of Open Source and Cryptocurrency 45:03 Apex 1.0? 48:25 Challenges and Innovations in Markdown Processing 01:02:16 AI in Coding and Personal Assistants 01:06:36 GrAPPtitude 01:14:40 Conclusion and Upcoming Plans Join the Conversation Merch Come chat on Discord! Twitter/ovrtrd Instagram/ovrtrd Youtube Get the Newsletter Thanks! You’re downloading today’s show from CacheFly’s network BackBeat Media Podcast Network Check out more episodes at overtiredpod.com and subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your favorite podcast app. Find Brett as @ttscoff, Christina as @film_girl, Jeff as @jsguntzel, and follow Overtired at @ovrtrd on Twitter. Transcript AI Agents and Political Chaos Introduction and Host Updates Christina: [00:00:00] Welcome back. You’re listening to Overtired. I’m Christina Warren. Joined as always by Brett Terpstra. Jeff Severns. Guntzel could not be with us this week, um, but uh, but Brett and I are here. So Brett, how are you? How’s the cold? Brett: The cold. Brett’s Water Crisis Brett: So I’m going on day four without running water. Um, I drove to my parents last night to shower and we’re, we’re driving loads of dishes to friends’ house to wash them. We have big buckets of melted snow in our bathtub that we use to flush the Toyland. Um, and we have like big jugs with a spout on them for drinking water. So we’re surviving, but it is highly inconvenient. Um, and we don’t know yet if it’s a frozen pipe. Or if we have [00:01:00] a bad pump on our, well, uh, hopefully we’ll find that out today. But no guarantees because all the plumbers are very busy right now with negative 30 degree weather. They tend to get a lot of calls, lots of stuff happens. Um, so yeah, but I’m, I’m staying warm. I got a fireplace, I got my heat’s working Christina: I mean, that’s the important thing. Brett: and that went out, that went out twice, in, twice already. This winter, our heat has gone out, um, which I’m thankful. We, we finally, we added glycol to our, so our heat pumps water through, like, it’s not radiators, it’s like baseboard heat, but it, it uses water and. Um, and though we were getting like frozen spots, not burst pipes, just enough that the water wouldn’t go through fast enough to heat anything. So we added glycol to that [00:02:00] system to bring the freeze point down to like zero degrees. So it’s not perfect, but we also hardwired the pump so that it always circulates water, um, even when the heat’s not running. So hopefully it’ll never freeze again. That’s the goal. Um, and if we replace the well pump, that should be good for another 20 years. So hopefully after this things will be smoother. Political Climate and Media Suppression Brett: Um, yeah, but that, that’s all in addition to, you know, my state being occupied by federal agents and even in my small town, we’ve got people being like, abducted. Things are escalating quickly at this point, and a lot of it doesn’t get talked about on mainstream media. Um, but yeah, things, I don’t know, man. I think we’re making progress because, um, apparently Binos [00:03:00] getting retired Christina: I was going to say, I, I, I, I heard, I heard that, and I don’t know if that’s good or if that’s bad. Um, I can’t, I can’t tell. Brett: it’s, it’s like, it’s like if Trump died, we wouldn’t know if that was good or bad because JD Vance as president, like maybe things get way worse. Who knows? Uh, none of these, none of these actual figureheads are the solution. Removing them isn’t the solution to removing the kinda maga philosophy behind it. But yeah, and that’s also Jeff is, you know, highly involved and I, I won’t, I won’t talk about that for him. I hope we can get him monsoon to talk about that. Christina: No, me, me, me too. Because I’ve, I’ve been thinking about, about him and about you and about your whole area, your communities, you know, from several thousand miles away. Like all, all we, all we see is either what people post online, which of course now is being suppressed. [00:04:00] Uh, thanks a lot. You know, like, like the, oh, TikTok was gonna be so terrible. Chi the, the Chinese are gonna take over our, uh, our algorithms. Right? No, Larry Ellison is, is actually going to completely, you know, fuck up the algorithms, um, and, and suppress anything. I, yeah. Yeah. They’re, they’re Brett: is TikTok? Well, ’cause Victor was telling me that, they were seeing videos. Uh, you would see one frame of the video and then it would black out. And it all seemed to be videos that were negative towards the administration and we weren’t sure. Is this a glitch? Is this coincidence? Christina: well, they claim it’s a glitch, but I don’t believe it. Brett: Yeah, it seems, it seems Christina: I, I mean, I mean, I mean, the thing is like, maybe it is, maybe it is a glitch and we’re overreacting. I don’t know. Um, all I know is that they’ve given us absolutely zero reason to trust them, and so I don’t, and so, um, uh, apparently the, the state of California, this is, [00:05:00] so we are recording this on Tuesday morning. Apparently the state of California has said that they are going to look into whether things are being, you know, suppressed or not, and if that’s violating California law, um, because now that, that, that TikTok is, is controlled by an American entity, um, even if it is, you know, owned by like a, you know, uh, evil, uh, billionaire, you know, uh, crony sto fuck you, Larry Ellison. Um, uh, I guess that means we won’t be getting an Oracle sponsorship. Sorry. Um, uh, Brett: take it anyway. Christina: I, I know you wouldn’t, I know you wouldn’t. That’s why I felt safe saying that. Um, but, uh, but even if, if, if that were the case, like I, you know, but apparently like now that it is like a, you know, kind of, you know, state based like US thing, like California could step in and potentially make things difficult for them. I mean, I think that’s probably a lot of bluster on Newsom’s part. I don’t think that he could really, honestly achieve any sort of change if they are doing things to the algorithm. Brett: Yeah. Uh, [00:06:00] if, if laws even matter anymore, it would be something that got tied up in court for a long time Christina: Right. Which effectively wouldn’t matter. Right. And, and then that opens up a lot of other interesting, um, things about like, okay, well, you know, should we, like what, what is the role? Like even for algorithmically determined things of the government to even step in or whatever, right now, obviously does, I think, become like more of a speech issue if it’s government speech that’s being suppressed, but regardless, it, it is just, it’s bad. So I’ve been, I’ve been thinking about you, I’ve been thinking about Jeff. Police Violence and Public Response Christina: Um, you know, we all saw what happened over the weekend and, and, you know, people be, people are being murdered in the streets and I mean that, that, that’s what’s happening. And, Brett: white people no less, Christina: Right. Well, I mean, that’s the thing, right? Like, is that like, but, but, but they keep moving the bar. They, they keep moving the goalpost, right? So first it’s a white woman and, oh, she, she was, she was running over. The, the officer [00:07:00] or the ice guy, and it’s like, no, she wasn’t, but, but, but that, that’s immediately where they go and, and she’s, you know, radical whatever and, and, and a terrorist and this and that. Okay. Then you have a literal veterans affair nurse, right? Like somebody who literally, like, you know, has, has worked with, with, with combat veterans and has done those things. Who, um, is stepping in to help someone who’s being pepper sprayed, you know, is, is just observing. And because he happens to have, um, a, a, a, a gun on him legally, which he’s allowed to do, um, they immediately used that as cover to execute him. But if he hadn’t had the gun, they would’ve, they would’ve come up with something else. Oh, we thought he had a gun, and they, you know what I mean? So like, they, they got lucky with that one because they removed the method, the, the, the weapon and then shot him 10 times. You know, they literally executed him in the street. But if he hadn’t had a gun, they still would’ve executed. Brett: Yeah, no, for sure. Um, it’s really frustrating that [00:08:00] they took the gun away. So he was disarmed and, and immobilized and then they shot him. Um, like so that’s just a straight up execution. And then to bring, like, to say that it, he, because he had a gun, he was dangerous, is such a, an affront to America has spent so long fighting against gun control and saying that we had the right to carry fucking assault rifles in the Christina: Kyle Rittenhouse. Kyle Rittenhouse was literally acquitted. Right? Brett: Yeah. And he killed people. Christina: and, and he killed people. He was literally walking around little fucking stogey, you know, little blubbering little bitch, like, you know, crying, you know, he’s like carrying around like Rambo a gun and literally snipe shooting people. That’s okay. Brett: They defended Christina: if you have a. They defended him. Of course they did. Right? Of course they did. Oh, well he has the right to carry and this and that, and Oh, you should be able to be armed in [00:09:00] these places. Oh, no, but, but if you’re, um, somebody that we don’t like Brett: Yeah, Christina: and you have a concealed carry permit, and I don’t even know if he was really concealed. Right. Because I think that if you have it on your holster, I don’t even think that counts as concealed to Brett: was supposedly in Christina: I, I, I don’t, I don’t, I don’t. Brett: like it Christina: Which I don’t think counts as concealed. I think. Brett: No. Christina: Right, right. So, so, so, so, so that, that, that wouldn’t be concealed. Be because you have someone in, in that situation, then all of a sudden, oh, no. Now, now the, the key, the goalpost, okay, well, it’s fine if it’s, you know, uh, police we don’t like, or, or other people. And, and, and if you’re going after protesters, then you can shoot and kill whoever you want, um, because you’ve perceived a threat and you can take actions into your, to your own hands. Um, but now if you are even a white person, um, even, you know, someone who’s, who’s worked in Veterans Affairs, whatever, if, if you have, uh, even if you’re like a, a, a, you know, a, a gun owner and, and have permits, um, now [00:10:00] if we don’t like you and you are anywhere in the vicinity of anybody associated with law enforcement, now they have the right to shoot you dead. Like that’s, that’s, that’s the argument, which is insanity. Brett: so I’m, I’m just gonna point out that as the third right came to power, they disarmed the Jews and they disarmed the anarchists and the socialists and they armed the rest of the population and it became, um, gun control for people they didn’t like. Um, and this is, it’s just straight up the same playbook. There’s no, there’s no differentiation anymore. Christina: No, it, it, it actively makes me angry that, um, I, I could be, because, ’cause what can we do? And, and what they’re counting on is the fact that we’re all tired and we’re all kind of, you know, like just, [00:11:00] you know, from, from what happened, you know, six years ago and, and, and what happened, you know, five years ago. Um, and, and, and various things. I think a lot of people are, are just. It kind of like Brett: Sure. Christina: done with, with, with being able to, to, to, right. But now the actual fascism is here, right? Like, like we, we, we saw a, a, you know, a whiff of this on, on, on January 6th, but now it’s actual fascism and they control every branch of government. Brett: Yeah. Christina: And, um, and, and, and I, and I don’t know what we’re supposed to do, right? Like, I mean it, because I mean, you know, uh, Philadelphia is, is, is begging for, for, for them to come. And I think that would be an interesting kind of standoff. Seattle is this, this is what a friend of mine said was like, you know, you know Philadelphia, Filch Philadelphia is begging them to come. Seattle is like scared. Um, that, that they’re going to come, um, because honestly, like we’re a bunch of little bitch babies and, um, [00:12:00] people think they’re like, oh, you know the WTO. I’m like, yeah, that was, that was 27 years ago. Um, uh, I, I don’t think that Seattle has the juice to hold that sort of line again. Um, but I also don’t wanna find out, right? Like, but, but, but this is, this is the attack thing. It’s like, okay, why are they in Minnesota? Right? They’re what, like 130,000, um, Brett: exactly Christina: um, immigrants in, in Minnesota. There are, there are however many million in Texas, however many million in Florida. We know exactly why, right? This isn’t about. Anything more than Brett: in any way. Christina: and opt. Right, right. It has nothing, it has nothing to do with, with, with immigration anyway. I mean, even, even the Wall Street Journal. The Wall Street Journal who a, you know, ran an op-ed basically saying get out of Minnesota. They also, they also had like a, you know, a news story, which was not from the opinion board, which like broke down the, the, the footage showing, you know, that like the, the video footage doesn’t match the administration’s claims, but they also ran a story. Um, that [00:13:00] basically did the math, I guess, on like the number of, of criminals, um, or people with criminal records who have been deported. And at this point, like in, you know, and, and when things started out, like, I guess when the raid started out, the, the majority of the people that they were kind of going after were people who had criminal records. Now, whether they were really violent, the worst, the worst, I mean that’s, I’m, I’m not gonna get into that, but you could at least say like, they, they could at least say, oh, well these were people who had criminal records, whatever. Now some, some huge percentage, I think it’s close to 80% don’t have anything. And many of the people that do the, the criminal like thing that they would hold would be, you know, some sort of visa violation. Right. So it’s, it’s, it’s Brett: they deported a five-year-old kid after using him as bait to try to get the rest of his family. Christina: as bait. Brett: Yeah. And like it’s, it’s pretty deplorable. But I will say I am proud of Minnesota. Um, they have not backed [00:14:00] down. They have stood up in the face of increasing increasingly escalated attacks, and they have shown up in force thousands of people out in the streets. Like Conti, like last night they had a, um, well, yeah, I mean, it’s been ongoing, but, uh, what’s his name? Preddy Alex. Um, at the place where he was shot, they had a, like continuing kind of memorial protest, I guess, and there’s footage of like a thousand, a thousand mins surrounding about 50, um, ICE agents and. Like basically corralling them to the point where they were all backed into a corner and weren’t moving. And I don’t know what happened after that. Um, but thus far it hasn’t been violent on the part of protesters. It’s been very violent on the part of ice. I [00:15:00] personally, I don’t know where I stand on, like, I feel like the Democrats are urging pacifism because it affects their hold on power. And I don’t necessarily think that peace when they’re murdering us in the street. I don’t know if peace is the right response, but I don’t know. I’m not openly declaring that I support violence at this point, but. At the same time, do I not? I’m not sure. Like I keep going back and forth on is it time for a war or do we try to vote our way out of this? Christina: I mean, well, and the scary thing about voting our way out of this is will we even be able to have free elections, right? Be because they’re using any sort of anything, even the most benign sort of legal [00:16:00] protest, even if violence isn’t involved in all of a sudden, talks of the Insurrection Act come Brett: yeah. And Trump, Trump offered to pull out of Minnesota if Minnesota will turn over its voter database to the federal government. Like that’s just blatant, like that’s obviously the end goal is suppression. Christina: Right, right. And, and so to your point, I don’t know. Right. And I’m, I’m never somebody who would wanna advocate outwardly for violence, but I, I, I, I, I don’t know. I mean, they’re killing citizens in the streets. They’re assassinating people in cold blood. They’re executing people, right. That’s what they’re doing. They’re literally executing people in the streets and then covering it up in real time. Brett: if the argument is, if we are violent, it will cause them to kill us. They’re already killing Christina: already doing it. Right. So at, at this point, I mean, like, you know, I mean, like, w to your point, wars have been started for, for, for less, or for the exact same things. Brett: [00:17:00] Yeah. Christina: So, I don’t know. I don’t know. Um, I know that that’s a depressing way to probably do mental health corner and whatnot, but this is what’s happening in our world right now and in and in your community, and it’s, it’s terrifying. Brett: I’m going to link in the show notes an article from Crime Think that was written by, uh, people in Germany who have studied, um, both historical fascism and the current rise of the A FD, which will soon be the most powerful party in Germany, um, which is straight up a Nazi party. Um, and it, they offered, like their hope right now lies in America stopping fascism. Christina: Yeah. Brett: Like if we can, if we can stop fascism, then they believe the rest of Europe can stop fascism. Um, but like they, it, it’s a good article. It kind of, it kind of broaches the same questions I do about like, is it [00:18:00] time for violence? And they offer, like, we don’t, we’re not advocating for a civil war, but like Civil wars might. If you, if you, if you broach them as revolutions, it’s kind of, they’re kind of the same thing in cases like this. So anyway, I’ll, I’ll link that for anyone who wants to read kinda what’s going on in my head. I’m making a note to dig that up. I, uh, I love Crime Fake Oh and Blue Sky. Social Media and Surveillance Brett: Um, so I have not, up until very recently been an avid Blue Sky user. Um, I think I have like, I think I have maybe like 200 followers there and I follow like 50 people. But I’ve been expanding that and I am getting a ton of my news from Blue Sky and like to get stories from people on the ground, like news as it happens, unfiltered and Blue Sky has been [00:19:00] really good for that. Um, I, it’s. There’s not like an algorithm. I just get my stuff and like Macedon, I have a much larger following and I follow a lot more people, but it’s very tech, Christina: It’s very tech and, Brett: there for. Christina: well, and, and MAs on, um, understandably too is also European, um, in a lot of regards. And so it’s just, it’s not. Gonna have the same amount of, of people who are gonna be able to, at least for instances like this, like be on the ground and doing real-time stuff. It’s not, it doesn’t have like the more normy stuff. So, no, that makes sense. Um, no, that’s great. I think, yeah, blue Sky’s been been really good for, for these sorts of real-time events because again, they don’t have an algorithm. Like you can have one, like for a personalized kind of like for you feed or whatever, but in terms of what you see, you know, you see it naturally. You’re not seeing it being adjusted by anything, which can be good and bad. I, I think is good because nothing’s suppressing things and you see things in real time. It can be bad because sometimes you miss things, but I think on the whole, it’s better. [00:20:00] The only thing I will say, just to anyone listening and, and just to spread onto, you know, people in your communities too, from what I’ve observed from others, like, it does seem like the, the government and other sorts of, you know, uh, uh, the, you know, bodies like that are finally starting to pay more attention to blue sky in terms of monitoring things. And so that’s not to say don’t. You know, use it at all. But the same way, you don’t make threats on Twitter if you don’t want the Feds to show up at your house. Don’t make threats on Blue Sky, because it’s not just a little microcosm where, you know, no one will see it. People are, it, it’s still small, but it’s, it’s getting bigger to the point that like when people look at like where some of the, the, the fire hose, you know, things observable things are there, there seem to be more and more of them located in the Washington DC area, which could just be because data centers are there, who knows? But I’ve also just seen anecdotally, like people who have had, like other instances, it’s like, don’t, don’t think [00:21:00] that like, oh, okay, well, you know, no one’s monitoring this. Um, of course people are so just don’t be dumb, don’t, don’t say things that could potentially get you in trouble. Um. Brett: a political candidate in Florida. Um, had the cops show up at her house and read her one of her Facebook posts. I mean, this was local. This was local cops, but still, yeah, you Christina: right. Well, yeah, that’s the thing, right? No, totally. And, and my, my only point with that is we’ve known that they do that for Facebook and for, for, you know, Twitter and, and, uh, you know, Instagram and things like that, but they, but Blue Sky, like, I don’t know if it’s on background checks yet, but it, uh, like for, uh, for jobs and things like that, I, I, I don’t know if that’s happening, but it definitely is at that point where, um, I know that people are starting to monitor those things. So just, you know, uh, not even saying for you per se, but just for anybody out there, like, it’s awesome and I’m so glad that like, that’s where people can get information out, but don’t be like [00:22:00] lulled into this false sense of security. Like, oh, well they’re not gonna monitor this. They’re not Brett: Nobody’s watching me here. Christina: It is like, no, they are, they are. Um, so especially as it becomes, you know, more prominent. So I’m, I’m glad that that’s. That’s an option there too. Um, okay. Sponsor Break: Copilot Money Christina: This is like the worst possible segue ever, but should we go ahead and segue to our, our, our sponsor break? Brett: Let’s do it. Let’s, let’s talk about capitalism. Christina: All right. This episode is brought to you by copilot money. Copilot money is not just another finance app. It’s your personal finance partner designed to help you feel clear, calm, and in control of your money. Whether it’s tracking your spending, saving for specific goals, or simply getting the handle on your investments. Copilot money has you covered as we enter the new year. Clarity and control over our finances has never been more important with the recent shutdown of Mint and rising financial stress, for many consumers are looking for a modern, trustworthy tool to help navigate their financial journeys. That’s where copilot money comes in. [00:23:00] With this beautifully designed app, you can see all your bank accounts, spending, savings and goals and investments all in one place. Imagine easily tracking everything without the clutter of chaotic spreadsheets or outdated tools. It’s a practical way to start 2026 with a fresh financial outlook. And here’s the exciting part. As of December 15th, copilot money is now available on the web so you can manage your finances on any device that you choose. Plus, it offers a seamless experience that keeps your data secure with a privacy first approach, when you sign up using our link, you’ll get two months for free. So visit, try. Copilot money slash Overtired to get started with features like automatic subscription tracking so you never miss a renewal date and customizable savings goals to help you stay on track. Copilot money empowers you to take charge of your financial life with confidence. So why wait Start 2026 with clarity and purpose. Download copilot money on your devices or visit. Try copilot money slash [00:24:00] overti today to claim you’re two months free and embrace a more organized, stress-free approach to your finances. Try copilot.money/ Overtired. Brett: Awesome that I appreciate this segue. ’cause we, we, we could, we could be talking about other things. Um, like it’s, it feels so weird, like when I go on social media and I just want to post that like my water’s out. It feels out of place right now because there’s everything that’s going on feels so much more important than, Christina: Right. Brett: than anything else. Um, but there’s still a place for living our lives, um, Christina: there are a absolutely. I mean, and, and, and in a certain extent, like not to, I mean, maybe this is a little bit of a cope, but it’s like, if all we do is focus on the things that we can’t control at the expense of everything else, it’s like then they win. You know? Like, which, which isn’t, which, which isn’t even to [00:25:00] say, like, don’t talk about what’s happening. Don’t try to help, don’t try to speak out and, and, um, and do what we can do, but also. Like as individuals, there’s very little we can control about things. And being completely, you know, subsumed by that is, is not necessarily good either. Um, so yeah, there’s, there, there are other things going on and it’s important for us to get out of our heads. It’s important, especially for you, you know, being in the region, I think to be able to, to focus on other things and, and hopefully your water will be back soon. ’cause that sucks like that. I’ve been, I’ve been worried about you. I’m glad that you have heat. I’m glad you have internet. I’m glad you have power, but you know, the pipes being frozen and all that stuff is like, not Brett: it, the, the internet has also been down for up to six hours at a time. I don’t know why. There’s like an amplifier down on our street. Um, and that has sucked because I, out here, I live in a, I’m not gonna call it rural. Uh, we’re like five minutes from town, [00:26:00] but, um, we, we don’t. We have shitty internet. Like I pay for a gigabit and I get 500 megabits and it’s, and it’s up and down all the time and I hate it. But anyway. Tech Talk: Gas Town and AI Agents Brett: Let’s talk about, uh, let’s talk about Gas Town. What can you tell me about Gastown? Christina: Okay. So we’ve talked a lot about like AI agents and, um, kind of like, uh, coding, um, loops and, and things like that. And so Gastown, uh, which is available, um, at, I, it is not Gas Town. Let me find the URL, um, one second. It’s, it’s at a gas town. No, it’s not. Lemme find it. Um. Right. So this is a thing that, that Steve Yy, uh, has created, and [00:27:00] it is a multi-agent workspace manager. And so the idea is basically that you can be running like a lot of instances of, um, of, of Claude Code or, um, I guess you could use Codex. You could use, uh, uh, uh, co-pilot, um, SDK or CLI agent and whatnot. Um, and basically what it’s designed to do is to basically let you coordinate like multiple coding agents at one time so they can all be working on different tasks, but then instead of having, um, like the context get lost when agents restart, it creates like a, a persistent, um, like. Work state, which it uses with, with git on the backend, which is supposed to basically enable more multi-agent workflows. So, um, basically the idea would be like, you get, have multiple agents working at once, kind of talking to one another, handing things off, you know, each doing their own task and then coordinating the work with what the other ones are doing. But then you have like a persistent, um, uh, I guess kind of like, you know, layer in the backend so that if an agent has to restart or whatever, it’s not gonna lose the, [00:28:00] the context, um, that that’s happening. And you don’t have to manually, um, worry about things like, okay, you know, I’ve lost certain things in memory and, and I’ve, you know, don’t know how I’m, I’m managing all these things together. Um, there, there’s another project, uh, called Ralph, which is kind of based on this, this concept of like, what of Ralph Wickham was, you know, coding or, or was doing kind of a loop. And, and it’s, it’s, it’s a, it’s kind of a similar idea. Um, there’s also. Brett: my nose wouldn’t bleed so much if I just kept my finger out of there. Christina: Exactly, exactly. My cat’s breath smells like cat food. Um, and um, and so. Like there are ideas of like Ralph Loops and Gastown. And so these are a couple of like projects, um, that have really started to, uh, take over. So like, uh, Ralph is more of an autonomous AI agent loop that basically like it runs like over and over and over again until, uh, a task is done. Um, and, and a lot of people use, use Gastown and, [00:29:00] and, and Ralph together. Um, but yeah, no Ga gastown is is pretty cool. Um, we’ll we’re gonna talk about it more ’cause it’s my pick of the week. We’ll talk about Molt bot previously known as Claude Bot, which is, uses some, some similar ideas. But it’s really been interesting to see like how, like the, the multi-agent workflow, and by multi-agent, I mean like, people are running like 20 or 30 of them, you know, at a time. So it’s more than that, um, is really starting to become a thing that people can, uh, can do. Um, Brett: gets expensive though. Christina: I was, I was just about to say that’s the one thing, right? Most people who are using things like Gastown. Are using them with the Claude, um, code Max plans, which is $200 a month. And those plans do give you more value than like, what the, what it would be if you spent $200 in API credits, uh, but $200 a month. Like that’s not an expensive, that’s, you know, that, that’s, that, that, like, you know what I mean? Like, like that, that, that, that, that, that’s a lot of money to spend on these sorts of things. Um, but people [00:30:00] are getting good results out of it. It’s pretty cool. Um. There have been some open models, which of course, most people don’t have equipment that would be fast enough for them to, to run, uh, to be able to kind of do what they would want, um, reliably. But the, the AgTech stuff coming to some of the open models is better. And so if these things can continue, of course now we’re in a ram crisis and storage crisis and everything else, so who knows when the hardware will get good enough again, and we can, when we as consumers can even reasonably get things ourselves. But, but in, in theory, you know, if, if these sorts of things continue, I could see like a, a world where like, you know, some of the WAN models and some of the other things, uh, potentially, um, or Quinn models rather, um, could, uh. Be things that you could conceivably, like be running on your own equipment to run these sorts of nonstop ag agentic loops. But yeah, right now, like it’s really freaking cool and I’ve played around with it because I’m fortunate enough to have access to a lot of tokens. [00:31:00] Um, but yeah, I can get expensive real, real fast. Uh, but, but it’s still, it’s still pretty awesome. Brett: I do appreciate that. So, guest Town, the name is a reference to Mad Max and in the kind of, uh, vernacular that they built for things like background agents and I, uh, there’s a whole bunch, there are different levels of, of the interface that they kind of extrapolated on the gas town kind of metaphor for. Uh, I, it was, it, it, there were some interesting naming conventions and then they totally went in other directions with some of the names. It, they didn’t keep the theme very well, but, but still, uh, I appreciate Ralph Wig and Mad Max. That’s. It’s at the very least, it’s interesting. Christina: No, it definitely is. It definitely is. Crypto Controversies Christina: I will say that there’s been like a little bit [00:32:00] of a kerfuffle, uh, involved in both of those, uh, developers because, um, they’re both now promoting shit coins and, uh, and so that’s sort of an interesting thing. Um, basically there’s like this, this, this crypto company called bags that I guess apparently like if people want to, they will create crypto coins for popular open source projects, and then they will designate someone to, I guess get the, the gas fees, um, in, um, uh, a Solana parlance, uh, no pun intended, with the gas town, um, where basically like that’s, you know, like the, the, the fees that you spend to have the transaction work off of the blockchain, right? Like, especially if there’s. A lot of times that it would take, like, you pay a certain percentage of something and like those fees could be designated to an individual. And, um, in this case, like both of these guys were reached out to when basically they were like, Hey, this coin exists. You’ve got all this money just kind of sitting in a crypto wallet waiting for you. [00:33:00] Take the money, get, get the, the transaction fees, so to speak. And, uh, I mean, I think that, that, that’s, if you wanna take that money right, it’s, it’s there for you. I’m not gonna certainly judge anyone for that. What I will judge you for is if you then promote your shit coin to your community and basically kind of encourage everyone. To kind of buy into it. Maybe you put in the caveat, oh, this isn’t financial advice. Oh, this is all just for whatever. But, but you’re trying to do that and then you go one step beyond, which I think is actually pretty dumb, which is to be like, okay, well, ’cause like, here’s the thing, I’m not gonna judge anyone. If someone who’s like, Hey, here’s a wallet that we’re gonna give you, and it has real cash in it, and you can do whatever you want with it, and these are the transaction fees, so to speak, like, you know, the gas fees, whatever, you know what you do. You, even if you wanna let your audience know that you’ve done that, and maybe you’re promoting that, maybe some people will buy into it, like, people are adults. Fine. Where, where I do like side eye a little bit is if you are, then for whatever reason [00:34:00] going to be like, oh, I’m gonna take my fees and I’m gonna reinvest it in the coin. Like, okay, you are literally sitting on top of the pyramid, like you could not be in a better position and now you’re, but right. And now you’re literally like paying into the pyramid scheme. It’s like, this is not going to work well for you. These are rug bulls. Um, and so like the, the, the, the gas town coin like dropped like massively. The Ralph coin like dropped massively, like after the, the, the Ralph creator, I think he took out like 300 K or something and people, or, you know, sold like 300 K worth of coins. And people were like, oh, he’s pulling a rug pull. And I’m like, well, A, what did you expect? But B it’s like, this is why don’t, like, if someone’s gonna give you free money from something that’s, you know, kind of scammy, like, I’m not saying don’t take the money. I am saying maybe be smart enough to not to reinvest it into the scam. Brett: Yeah. Christina: Like, I don’t know. Anyway, that’s the only thing I will mention on that. ’cause I don’t think that that takes [00:35:00] anything away from either of those projects or it says that you shouldn’t use or play around with it either of those ideas at all. But that is just a thing that’s happened in the last couple of weeks too, where it’s like, oh, and now there’s like crypto, you know, the crypto people are trying to get kind of involved with these projects and, um, I, I think that that’s, uh, okay. You know, um, like I said, I’m, I’m not gonna judge anybody for taking free money that, that somebody is gonna offer them. I will judge you if you’re gonna try to then, you know, try to like, promote that to your audience and try to be like, oh, this is a great way where we, where you can help me and we can all get rich. It’s like, no, there are, if you really wanna support creators, like there are things like GitHub sponsors and there are like other methods that you can, you can do that, that don’t involve making financial risks on shit coins. Brett: I wish anything I made could be popular enough that I could do something that’s stupid. Yeah. Like [00:36:00] I, I, I, I’m not gonna pull a rug pull on anyone, but the chances that I’ll ever make $300,000 on anything I’m working on, it’s pretty slim. Christina: Yeah, but at the same time, like if you, if you did, if you were in that position, like, I don’t know, I mean, I guess that’d be a thing that you would have to kind of figure out, um, yourself would be like, okay, I have access to this amount of money. Am I going to try to, you know, go all in and, and maybe go full grift to get even more? Some, something tells me that like your own personal ethics would probably preclude you from that. Brett: I, um, I have spent, what, um, how old am I? 47. I, I’ve been, since I started blogging in like 1999, 2000, um, I have always adhered to a very strict code and like turning down sponsors. I didn’t agree with [00:37:00] not doing anything that would be shady. Not taking, not, not taking money from anyone I was writing about. Ethics in Journalism and Personal Dilemmas Brett: Like, it’s been, it’s a pain in the ass to try to be truly ethical, but I feel like I’ve done it for 30 some years and, and I don’t know, I wouldn’t change it. I’m not rich. I’ll never be rich. But yeah, I think ethics are important, especially if you’re in any kind of journalism. Christina: Yeah, if you’re in any sort of journalism. I think so, and I think like how people wanna define those things, I think it’s up to them. And, and like I said, like I’m not gonna even necessarily like, like judge people like for, because I, I don’t know personally like what my situation would be like. Like if somebody was like, Christina, here’s a wallet that has the equivalent of $300,000 in it and it’s just sitting here and we’re not even asking you to do anything with this. I would probably take the money. I’m not gonna lie, I don’t, I don’t, I don’t [00:38:00] know if I would promote it or anything and I maybe I would feel compelled to disclose, Hey, Brett: That is Christina: wallet belongs to me. Brett: money though. Christina: I, I, right. I, I, I might, I might be, I might feel compelled to com to, to disclose, Hey, someone created this coin in this thing. They created the foam grow coin and they are giving me, you know, the, the, the gas fees and I have accepted Brett: could be, I’d feel like you could do it if you were transparent enough about it. Christina: Yeah, I mean, I, I, I think where I draw the line is when you then go from like, because again, it’s fine if you wanna take it. It’s then when you are a. Reinvesting the free money into the coin, which I think is just idiotic. Like, I think that’s just actually dumb. Um, like I just, I just do like, that just seems like you are literally, like I said, you’re at the top of the pyramid and you’re literally like volunteering to get into the bottom again. Um, and, or, or b like if you do that and then you try to rationalize in some way, oh, well, you know, I think [00:39:00] that this could be a great thing for everybody to, you know, I get rich, you know, you could get rich, we could all get money out of this because this is the future of, you know, creator economy or whatever. It’s like, no, it’s not. This is gambling. Um, and, and, and, and you could make the argument to me, and I’d probably be persuaded to be like, this isn’t that different from poly market or any of the other sorts of things. But you know what? I don’t do those things either. And I wouldn’t promote those things to any audience that I had either. Um, but if somebody wanted to give me free money. I probably wouldn’t turn it down. I’m not gonna pretend that my ethics are, are that strong. Uh, I just don’t know if I would, if I would, uh, go on the other end and be like, okay, to the Moom, everyone let, let’s all go in on the crypto stuff. It’s like, okay, The Future of Open Source and Cryptocurrency Brett: So is this the future of open source is, ’cause I mean like open source has survived for decades as like a concept and it’s never been terribly profitable. But a [00:40:00] lot of large companies have invested in open source, and I guess at this point, like most of the big open source projects are either run by a corporation or by a foundation. Um, that are independently financed, but for a project like Gastown, like is it the future? Is this, is this something people are gonna start doing to like, kind of make open source profitable? Christina: I mean, maybe, I don’t know. I think the problem though is that it’s not necessarily predictable, right? And, and not to say that like normal donations or, or support methods are predictable, but at least that could be a thing where you’re like, they’re not, but, but, but it’s not volatile to the extent where you’re like, okay, I’m basing, you know, like my income based on how well this shit coin that someone else controls the supply of someone else, you know, uh, uh, created someone else, you know, burned, so to speak, somebody else’s is going to be, uh, [00:41:00] controlling and, and has other things and could be responsible for, you know, big seismic like market movements like that I think is very different, um, than anything else. And so, I don’t know. I mean, I, I think that they, what I do expect that we’ll see more of is more and more popular projects, things that go viral, especially around ai. Probably being approached or people like proactively creating coins around those things. And there have been some, um, developers who’ve already, you know, stood up oddly and been like, if you see anybody trying to create a coin around this, it is not associated with me. I won’t be associated with any of it. I won’t do it. Right. Uh, and I think that becomes a problem where you’re like, okay, if these things do become popular, then that becomes like another risk if you don’t wanna be involved in it. If you’re involved with a, with a popular project, right? Like the, like the, like the creator of MPM Isaac, like, I think there’s like an MPM coin now, and that, that he’s, you know, like involved in and it’s like, you know, again, he didn’t create it, but he is happy to promote it. He’s happy to take the money. I’m like, look, I’m happy for [00:42:00] Isaac to get money from NPMI am at the same time, you know, bun, which is basically like, you know, the, you know, replacement for, for Node and NPM in a lot of ways, they sold to Anthropic for. I guarantee you a fuck load more money than whatever Isaac is gonna make off of some MPM shitcoin. So, so like, it, it’s all a lottery and it’s not sustainable. But I also feel like for a lot of open source projects, and this isn’t like me saying that the people shouldn’t get paid for the work, quite the contrary. But I think if you go into it with the expectation of I’m going to be able to make a sustainable living off of something, like when you start a project, I think that that is not necessarily going to set you up for, I think that those expectations are misaligned with what reality might be, which again, isn’t to say that you shouldn’t get paid for your work, it’s just that the reason that we give back and the reason we contribute open source is to try to be part of like the, the greater good and to make things more available to everyone. Not to be [00:43:00] like, oh, I can, you know, quit my job. Like, that would be wonderful. I, I wish that more and more people could do that. And I give to a lot of, um, open source projects on, on a monthly basis or on an annual basis. Um, Brett: I, I give basically all the money that’s given to me for my open source projects I distribute among other open source projects. So it’s a, it’s a, it’s a wash for me, but yeah, I am, I, I pay, you know, five, 10 bucks a month to 20 different projects and yeah. Christina: Yeah. I mean, I think it’s important, but, but I, I don’t know. I, I, I hope that it’s not the future. I’m not mad, I think like if that’s a way where people can make, you know, a, a, an income. But I do, I guess worry the sense that like, if, if, if, I don’t want that to be, the reason why somebody would start an open source project is because they’re like, oh, I, I can get rich on a crypto thing. Right? Like, ’cause that that’s the exact wrong Brett: that’s not open source. That’s not the open source philosophy. Christina: no, [00:44:00] it’s not. And, and so, I mean, but I think, I think if it already exists, I mean, I don’t know. I, I also feel like no one should feel obligated. This should go without saying that. If you see a project that you like that is involved in one of those coins. Do you have a zero obligation to be, uh, supportive of that in any way? And in fact, it is probably in your financial best interest to not be involved. Um, it, it is your life, your money, your, you do whatever you want, gamble, however you want. But, uh, I, I, I, I do, I guess I, I bristle a little bit. Like if people try to portray it like, oh, well this is how you can support me by like buying into this thing. I’m like, okay, that’s alright. Like, I, I, if you wanna, again, like I said, if you wanna play poly market with this, fine, but don’t, don’t try to wrap that around like, oh, well this is how you can give back. It’s like, no, you can give back in other ways. Like you can do direct donations, you can do other stuff. Like I would, I would much rather encourage people to be like, rather than putting a hundred dollars in Ralph Coin, [00:45:00] give a hundred dollars to the Ralph Guy directly. Apex 1.0? Brett: So, speaking of unprofitable open source, I have Apex almost to 1.0. Um, it officially handles, I think, all of the syntax that I had hoped it would handle. Um, it does like crazy things, uh, that it’s all built on common mark, GFM, uh, like cmar, GFM, GitHub’s project. Um, so it, it does all of that. Plus it handles stuff from like M mark with like indices. Indices, and it incorporates, uh. Uh, oh, I forget the name of it. Like two different ways of creating indices. It handles all kinds of bibliography syntax, like every known bibliography syntax. Um, I just added, you can, you can create insert tags with plus, plus, uh, the same way you would create a deletion with, uh, til detail. Um, and [00:46:00] I’ve added a full plugin structure, and the plugins now can be project local. So you can have global plugins. And then if you have specific settings, so like I have a, I, my blogs are all based on cramdown and like the bunch documentation is based on cramdown, but then like the mark documentation. And most of my writing is based on multi markdown and they have different. Like the, for example, the IDs that go on headers in multi markdown. If it’s, if it has a space in multi markdown, it gets compressed to no space in common Mark or GFM, it gets a dash instead of a space, which means if I have cross links, cross references in my document, if I don’t have the right header syntax, the cross reference will break. So now I can put a, a config into like my bunch documentation that tells Apex to use, [00:47:00] um, the dash syntax. And in my Mark documentation, I can tell it to use the multi markdown syntax. And then I can just run Apex with no command line arguments and everything works. And I don’t know, I, I haven’t gotten adoption for it. Like the one place I thought it could be really useful was DEVONthink, Christina: Mm-hmm. Brett: which has always been based on multi markdown, which. Um, is I love multi markdown and I love Fletcher and, um, it’s just, it’s missing a lot of what I would consider modern syntax. Christina: Right. Brett: so I, I offered it to Devin think, and it turned out they were working on their own project along the same lines at the same time. Um, but I’m hoping to find some, some apps that will incorporate it and maybe get it some traction. It’s solid, it’s fast, it’s not as fast as common Mark, but it does twice as much. Um, like the [00:48:00] benchmarks, it a complex document renders in common mark in about. Uh, 27 milliseconds, and in Apex it’s more like 46 milliseconds. But in the grand scheme of things, I could render my whole blog 10 times faster than I can with cramm down or Panoc and yeah, and, and I can use all the syntax I want. Challenges and Innovations in Markdown Processing Brett: Did I tell you about, did I tell you about, uh, Panoc Divs? The div extension, um, like you can in with the panoc D extension, you can put colon, colon, colon instead of like back, take, back, take backtick. So normally, like back ticks would create a code block with colons, it creates a div, and you can apply, you can apply inline attribute lists after the colons to make, to give it a class and an ID and any other attributes you wanna apply to it. I extended that so that you can do colon, [00:49:00] colon, colon, and then type a tag name. So if you type colon, colon, colon aside and then applied an attribute list to it, it would create an aside tag with those attributes. Um, the, the only pan deck extension that I wish I could support that I don’t yet is grid tables. Have you ever seen grid tables? Christina: I have not. Brett: There, it’s, it’s kind of like multi markdown table syntax, except you use like plus signs for joints and uh, pipes and dashes, and you actually draw out the table like old ASCI diagrams Christina: Okay. Brett: and that would render that into a valid HTML table. But that supporting that has just been, uh, tables. Tables are the thing. I’ve pulled the most hair out over. Christina: Yeah, I was gonna say, I think I, they feel like tables are hard. I also feel like in a lot of circumstances, I mean obviously people use tables and whatnot, but like, [00:50:00] only thing I would say to you, like, you know, apex is, is so cool and I hope that other projects adopt it. Um, and, uh, potentially with the POC support as far as you’ve gotten with it, maybe, you know, projects that support some of POC stuff could, could, you know, uh, jump into it. But I will say it does feel like. Once you go into like the Panoc universe, like that almost feels like a separate thing from the markdown Flavors like that almost feels like its own like ecosystem. You know what I mean? Brett: Well, yeah, and I haven’t tried to adopt everything Panoc does because you can als, you can also use panoc. You can pipe from Apex into Panoc or vice versa. So I’m not gonna try to like one for one replicate panoc, Christina: No, no. Totally Brett: do all of panoc export options because Panoc can take HTML in and then output PDFs and Doc X and everything. So you can just pipe output from Apex into Panoc to create your PDF or whatever Christina: And like, and, and like to, [00:51:00] and like to me, like that seems ideal, right? But I feel like maybe like adopting some of the other things, especially like, like their grid, you know, table, things like that. Like that would be cool. But like, that feels like that’s a, potentially has the, has the potential, maybe slow down rendering and do other stuff which you don’t want. And then b it’s like, okay, now are we complicated to the point that like, this is, this is now not becoming like one markdown processor to rule them all, but you Brett: Yeah, the whole point, the whole point is to be able to just run Apex and not worry about what cex you’re using. Um, but grid tables are the kind of thing that are so intentional that you’re not gonna accidentally use them. Like the, the, the, the impetus for Apex was all these support requests I get from people that are like the tilde syntax for underline or delete doesn’t work in Mark. And it, it does if you choose the right processor. But then you have to know, yeah, you have to [00:52:00] know what processor supports what syntax and that takes research and time and bringing stuff in from, say, obsidian into mart. You would just kind of expect things to work. And that’s, that’s why I built Apex and Christina: right? Brett: you are correct that grid tables are the kind of thing, no one’s going to use grid tables if they haven’t specifically researched what Christina: I right. Brett: they’re gonna work with. Christina: And they’re going to have a way that has their file marked so that it is designated as poc and then whatever, you know, flags for whatever POC features it supports, um, does. Now I know that the whole point of APEX is you don’t have to worry about this, but, but I am assuming, based on kind of what you said, like if I pass like arguments like in like a, you know, in a config file or something like where I was like, these documents or, or, or this URL or these things are, you know, in this process or in this in another, then it can, it can just automatically apply those rules without having to infer based on the, on the syntax, right. Brett: right. It has [00:53:00] modes for cram down and common mark and GFM and discount, and you can like tell it what mode you’re writing in and it will limit the feature set to just what that processor would handle. Um, and then all of the flags, all of the features have neg negotiable flags on them. So if you wanted to say. Skip, uh, relax table rendering. You could turn that off on the command line or in a config file. Um, so yeah, everything, everything, you can make it behave like any particular processor. Uh, but I focus mostly on the unified mode, which again, like you don’t have to think about which processor you are using. Christina: Are you seeing, I guess like in, in circumstances like, ’cause I, in, in my, like, my experience, like, I would never think to, like, I would probably like, like to, I would probably do like what you do, which is like, I’m [00:54:00] going to use one syntax or, or one, you know, processor for one type of files and maybe another and another. Um, but I, I don’t think that like, I would ever have a, and maybe I’m misunderstanding this, but I don’t think I would ever have an instance where I would be like mixing the two together in the same file. Brett: See, that’s my, so that’s, that’s what’s changing for me is I’m switching my blog over to use Apex instead of Cramdown, which means I can now incorporate syntax that wasn’t available before. So moving forward, I am mixing, um, things from common mark, things from cram down, things from multi markdown. Um, and, and like, so once you know you have the option Christina: right. Then you might do that Brett: you have all the syntax available, you start doing it. And historically you won’t have, but like once you get used to it, then you can. Christina: Okay. So here’s the next existential question for you. At what point then does it go from being, you know, like [00:55:00] a, a, a rendering engine, kind of like an omni rendering engine to being a syntax and a flavor in and of itself? Brett: That is that, yeah, no, that’s a, that’s a very valid question and one that I have to keep asking myself, um, because I never, okay, so what to, to encapsulate what you’re saying, if you got used to writing for Apex and you were mixing your syntax, all of a sudden you have a document that can’t render in anything except Apex, which does eventually make it its own. Yeah, no, it is, it’s always, it’s a concern the whole time. Christina: well, and I, I wouldn’t even necessarily, I mean, like, and I think it could be two things, right? I mean, like, you could have it live in two worlds where, like on the one hand it could be like the rendering engine to end all rendering engines and it can render, you know, files and any of them, and you can specify like whatever, like in, in, in like a tunnel or something. Like, you know, these files are, [00:56:00] are this format, these are these, and you know, maybe have some sort of, you know, um, something, even like a header files or whatever to be like, this is what this rendering engine is. Um, you know, with, with your projects to have it, uh, do that. Um. Or have it infer, you know, based on, on, on, um, the, the logic that you’re importing. But it could also be one of those things where you’re like, okay, I just have created like, you know, the omni syntax. And that’s a thing that maybe, maybe you get people to try to encourage or try, try to adopt, right? Like, it’s like, okay, you can always just use common mark. You can always just use GFM, you can always just use multi markdown, but we support these other things too, from these other, um, systems and you can intermix and match them. Um, because, because I, I do feel like at a certain point, like at least the way you’re running it yourself, you have your own syntax. Like, like, you know. Brett: yeah. No, you have perfectly encapsulated the, the major [00:57:00] design concern. And I think you’re correct. It can exist, it can be both things at once. Um, but I have like, nobody needs another markdown syntax. Like there are so many flavors right now. Okay. There may be a dozen. It’s not like an infinite number, but, but there’s enough that the confusion is real. Um, and we don’t need yet another markdown flavor, but we do need a universal processor that. Makes the differentiations less, but yeah, no, it’s, I need, I need to nail down that philosophy, uh, and really like, put it into writing and say, this is the design goal of this project, uh, which I have like hinted at, but I’m a scattered thinker and like, part of, part of the design philosophy is if someone says, Hey, [00:58:00] could you make this work? I just wanted a project where I could say, yeah, I’m gonna make that work. I, I, I’m gonna add this somewhat esoteric syntax and it’s just gonna work and it’s not gonna affect anything else. And you don’t have to use it, but if you do, there it is. So it’s kind of, it was designed to bloat to a circuit certain extent. Um, but yeah, I need to, I need to actually write a page That’s just the philosophy and really, really, uh, put, put all my thoughts together on that. Christina: Yeah, no, ’cause I was just kind of thinking, I was like, ’cause it’s so cool. Um, but the way that I would’ve envisioned using it, like I, I still like, it’s cool that you can mix all those things in together. I still feel like I probably wouldn’t because I’m not you. And so then I would just have like this additional dependency that it’s like, okay, if something happens to Apex one day and that’s the only thing that can render my documents, then like, you know what I mean? And, and, and if it’s not getting updated [00:59:00] anymore or whatever, then I’m kind of like SOL, um, Brett: Maku. Do you remember Maku? Christina: vaguely. Brett: It’s, the project is kind of dead and a lot of its syntax has been incorporated into various other processors. But if you built your whole blog on Maku, you have to, you have to be able to run like a 7-year-old binary, um, and, and it’ll never be updated, and eventually you’re gonna run into trouble. The nice thing about Unix based stuff is it’s. Has a, you can stop developing it and it’ll work for a decade, um, until, like, there’s a major shift in processors, but like, just the shift to arm. Like if, if Maku was only ever compiled for, uh, for, uh, Intel and it wasn’t open source, you would, it would be gone. You wouldn’t be able to run it anymore. So yeah, these things can happen. Christina: [01:00:00] Well, and I just even think about like, you know, the fact that like, you know, like some of the early processors, like I remember like back, I mean this is a million years ago, but having to use like certain, like pearl, you know, based things, you know, but depending on like whatever your backend system was, then you moved to PHP, they maybe you move, moved to, you know, Ruby, if you’re using like Jekyll and maybe you move to something else. And I was like, okay, you know, what will the thing be in the future? Yeah. If, if I, if it’s open source and there’s a way that, you know, you can write a new, a new processor for that, but it does create like, dependencies on top of dependencies, which is why I, I kind of feel like I like having like the omni processor. I don’t know if, like, for me, I’m like, okay, I, I would probably be personally leery about intermingling all my different syntaxes together. Brett: to that end though, that is why I wanted it in C um, because C will probably never die. C can be compiled on just about any platform. And it can be used with, like, if you have, if you have a Jekyll blog and you wanna [01:01:00] incorporate a C program into a gem, it’s no problem. Uh, you can incorporate it into just about any. Langu

Christina and Jeff kick off the new year of Overtired sans Brett. They delve into Christina's impending cervical spine surgery, ICE raids, and neighborhood signal groups. How do you keep mental health in check when Homeland Security is in your alley? Tune in for a wild start to 2026. Sponsor Copilot Money can help you take control of your finances. Get a fresh start with your money for 2026 with 26% off when you visit try.copilot.money/overtired and use code OVERTIRED. Chapters 00:00 New Year Kickoff 00:41 Personal Updates and Health Challenges 01:49 Surgery Details and Insurance Woes 04:45 Exploring Surgery Options and Recovery 12:44 Journaling and Mental Health 15:40 The Artist’s Way and Creative Practices 24:31 Unexpected Alley Incident 38:10 Family Activism and Signal Setup 38:52 Unexpected End of Year Incident 39:35 Speculations and Concerns 40:13 Dealing with Law Enforcement 45:35 Reflections on Responsibility 54:43 Gratitude for Signal 59:31 Tech Talk: Synology and Backup Solutions 01:03:08 Mac Updater Alternatives 01:10:03 Conclusion and Well Wishes Show Links Journaling – The Artist's Way Signal Synology Updatest Join the Conversation Merch Come chat on Discord! Twitter/ovrtrd Instagram/ovrtrd Youtube Get the Newsletter Thanks! You’re downloading today’s show from CacheFly’s network BackBeat Media Podcast Network Check out more episodes at overtiredpod.com and subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your favorite podcast app. Transcript Promise Not to Whine [00:00:00] New Year Kickoff Christina: Well, happy New Year. You are listening to Overtired and I am Christina Warren, and I’m joined as always by Jeff Severance Zel and, uh, Brett Terpstra couldn’t be, uh, here with us in this, uh, happy early 2026 episode, but I’m, I’m super excited to be able to kick off the, uh, the first pot of the year with you, Jeff, how are you? Jeff: I am good. Happy New Year to you. Christina: Likewise, likewise. Um, oh, here, here, here’s to 2026 being significantly better than 20, 25. So Jeff: So far, not so good, but I’m, I’m really, I’m really excited about 2026. I’m Christina: I was gonna say, like, like globally, globally, so far not great, but, but, Jeff: in here. Good in here. Personal Updates and Health Challenges Christina: So, um, so how are, uh, uh, how, how, how is the, I guess a, I guess we can kind of a drill into like a, a brief kind of mental health or, or just personal update thing if we want. Um, how, um. How are things for you so far? Um, I guess the end of the year. How are things with the kids? Um, the [00:01:00] wife, everything. Jeff: the, how the year ended is, and that gets us back to almost a political level. I will save for a topic ’cause boy do I have a story. Um, but, uh, generally speaking, doing really well. Like we traveled, saw my dad and stepmom in Iowa. Saw my in-laws in Indiana, had a really nice, just like generally had a really nice time off. Um, and despite the fact that I’m under a super stressful deadline over the next few days, I feel good. How about you? You got a lot going on. Christina: I, I do, I do. So I guess just kind of a, a, an, an update on, um, the, uh, the Christina, you know, cervical spine, um, saga since we last spoke a couple of weeks ago. Um, I guess maybe two weeks ago now. Um, uh, it was maybe a week ago. Um, uh, it was two weeks ago, I think. Sorry, it was, it was right before Christmas. Surgery Details and Insurance Woes Christina: Um, I was still awaiting, um, hearing back about when I would be scheduled for, uh, surgery and I’m getting, um, uh, artificial disc replacement in, um, I guess [00:02:00] between like C six, C seven of my cervical spine. And I do finally have a surgery date. Yay. Um, the bad, yeah, the bad news is it’s not until February 2nd, so I’ve gotta wait, you know, a month, which sucks. Um, I would have been able to get in, you know, uh, three weeks ago at this point. Um, had I been able to like, I guess like book immediately, but without insurance, like approval, um, I didn’t really want to do that. Um, I think, I think people, uh, can understand why, like, you know, when the doctor’s like, well, we can book you now, but you’ll just need to sign some forms that say you’ll be responsible for the bill if insurance doesn’t pay. Jeff: Oh fine. Get Where’s my pen? Christina: right, right. And I’m like, yeah, this is, you’re gonna keep me overnight just for, you know, observation to make sure like nothing bleeds or, or, or whatever’s a problem. Um, ’cause they’re gonna go through like the, the, the front of my, of my neck to, to be able to reach, you know, um, things that way and, and, and so, [00:03:00] you know, and be under, you know, anesthesia, you know, it’s, it’s, it’s not like a huge critical procedure, but it’s still neurosurgery. Jeff: is through the front of your neck. Christina: and, and, and, and, and, and again, and it’s a neurosurgeon and it’s like, you know, they’re gonna, you know, take some stuff out and try to make sure that like, you know, very, like they’re gonna be, you know, um, screwing up against my trachea and stuff. And like, yeah. I mean, like, you know, it’s, it’s not, it’s not minor. It’s not like I can just go in in an afternoon and be like, oh, I’m, I’m, I can just like walk out. Jeff: Right. Christina: Um, um, although apparently I will feel better, uh, as soon as it happens, but yeah, I mean, this is probably gonna be a six figure, you know, operation, I’m assuming so. No, I, I, I’m sorry. In, in this climate, uh, I don’t feel comfortable. Just, I need my name to be like, oh, yeah, I’ll, I’ll be responsible for that, and then be responsible for trying to track everyone down to, to pay. So that’s the frustrating thing is that, and now of course, you know, you, you get the beginning of the year, a bunch of people have been waiting, you know, to get, you know, things scheduled, I’m sure, and [00:04:00] whatnot. So I’m grateful that I’m scheduled at all. Um, I’m also grateful that right now I’m not insignificant pain, which is a really good thing because if this had been the pain level that I was in for the first few weeks, then like, I wouldn’t, I, you know, I mean, I would wait. I mean, if, if, if you have to wait, you have to wait. But, um, I, I, I might have like pressed upon them like. Is there any way we can move this up? Um, but I’m not in that position, which is good. The only thing is just that the numbness, um, on both arms. But, but, but primarily, yeah. No, I mean, that’s not gone away and, and it’s, and it’s not going to is the thing, right? Like there are a lot of people and like, and I, I’ve started now that I’ve got, got it like actually like done and like scheduled and you know, I’m going through all like the, you know, um, checklist stuff before you, you go in and whatnot. And I have like my, you know, pre-up appointments and all that stuff scheduled. Exploring Surgery Options and Recovery Christina: Um, I am starting to, to look more into, I guess like, you know, I guess recovery videos that people have put up on YouTube and, and reading a few things on Reddit. Although I’m doing my best to, to stay off the internet with [00:05:00] this stuff as much as possible. Um, just because for me it’s, it’s not beneficial, right? Like, it, it’s, it’s one thing if you know, um, you, uh, you don’t like. If, if you can separate and not kind of go down rabbit holes and like freak yourself out or whatever, sure. Maybe it can be good information, but for me, like I, I know my own kind of, you know, limits in terms of, of how much is good for me. And so I’ve, I’ve tried to keep that in moderation, but I have watched a few, you know, videos of people, you know, kind of talking about their experiences. And then of course then that gets used sent with like videos of like doctors who of course, for their own reasons, like are trying to promote like, oh, well you should do the, the, the fusion versus the, the, the disc replacement and, or you should do this versus that. And I’m like, okay. I actually watched one interesting talk that, that some guy gave it a medical conference and neurologist gave it a medical conference and it was a neurosurgeon, I guess is, is the proper term. But that I think kind of really distinctly a, it was very similar to. Exactly what my surgeon said to me, [00:06:00] um, when he was kind of explaining the differences in the procedures. Um, and, and b but kind of went into, I guess like the, the difference in terms of outcomes and, um, and it made me feel better about like that if I’m a good candidate for this procedure, that, that this is, um, the right thing to, to do and probably will be better for me long term. Um, because the, the results are, are better and, but not by a small portion, not like by like a, a gargantuan portion. But they are, they are, there is like a sizable difference between outcomes in terms of whether like the average person who needs a revision, um. For, you know, cervical spine versus getting, you know, disc replacement versus, um, uh, fusion. Fusion has been around a lot longer, and so insurance companies are a lot more likely to approve that. But in Europe, they’ve been doing the, the disc replacement stuff for 25, 30 years. Um, and so there is a lot of data on it, but it’s been a much more recent thing in the United States because insurance companies didn’t really start to do it until about five or 10 years ago. And so, and so, you know, some people will, [00:07:00] like some doctors who very clearly have an agenda on, on YouTube and like, that’s fine, like your practices, your practice and you’re comfortable with what you’re comfortable with. But they’ll be like, oh, we don’t have enough data on, you know, the types of, um, you know, discs that we’re putting in people’s, you know, necks and, and how, how long they, you know, last and, and there might be some differences in terms of if you’re doing like a multi-step, meaning you’re doing like multiple discs at once. Or if, you know, depending on like what, what, what part of the spine you’re in. And like, I, I think at this point for, for artificial disc replacement in the US they’ll do it two steps. So they can do two at once, but they won’t typically do three, although they will do three in Europe. And so there are people who will go to Europe and get the three Jeff: They’re so liberal in Europe. We’ll do three. Christina: Well, I mean, I think it’s a difference in, in that case, just a matter of like, if they’ve been doing the surgeries there longer, you know, then, then they, you know, and, and, and you know, and, and this is not uncommon in, in various forms of, of medicine, you know, where like you have different, you know, procedures and different exploratory things in different fields, in different areas.[00:08:00] So anyway, so then I get kind of trapped into those rabbit holes. But the interesting, the night, the, the, I guess comforting thing is that like, you know, I’ve been reading, you know, around reading, but watching people who were doing vlogs, like after their surgery and like there was this guy who. I was a few years younger than me, but he, you know, posted some updates. I, I guess he got his in July and he kind of did like, you know, updates, you know, kind of like, you know, this was me right after surgery. This was me, you know, three weeks later. This was me however many months later. And that was really great to see. Um, and, and his, his scar actually healed really nicely, which was encouraging. So, um, yeah, I mean, I’m, I’m, I’m, I’m hopeful. I mean, the one thing that’s interesting that, like almost the universal thing that people say, of course you have a few people who say, this didn’t help or, or, you know, this, this was bad or whatever. And, and obviously like that’s always terrible to see that, but you know, you’d have to kind of like go by law of averages. But the, one of the central kind of things is a lot of people being like, I should have done this earlier. And, and so I’m feeling good about that because that is, I, I, I, I don’t know what this says about me, [00:09:00] but like there’s was never a moment in my mind where I’ve been like, oh, I’m not gonna get the surgery as soon as I can get the surgery. That’s never even been part of my like, thought process. And, and, and, and, and it’s funny because I think that like, that is actually odd compared to almost everybody else. Um, the general public, I guess, who goes into these sorts of things. Um, or at least the people who are vocal on the internet, right? So, so maybe like, maybe there are a lot more people like me who just don’t go to forums and comment on stuff and are just like, yeah, I’m gonna get the surgery because that’s what the doctor says. There’s the right thing to do, and that’s what makes sense to me and I wanna, you know, not be in pain and I wanna be able to feel my arm and all that stuff. Um, but there are a lot of people who, I don’t know why, um, I mean, I guess the idea of surgery is, is really scary. And, and like, I can, I can understand that obviously, but to the point where they’re like, okay, well no, I’m gonna try physical therapy and I’m gonna do everything I can to avoid surgical intervention. And I’m, I’m like, no. Like, like [00:10:00] freaking cut me up, doc. Right? Like, like, like, get me in, get me in. Like, let’s get better, right? Like, I, I’m not, I’m not here to like fuck around with like, ’cause right now, because the immediate pain is not there, I could be okay. Right? Like, I Jeff: Sure. Christina: try steroids, I could try pt, I could try to do other types of therapies and be like, well, maybe that will move the nerve around. Or maybe it can get the disc like UN you know, bolt, whatever the case may be. And maybe I won’t need surgery. Um, or I could let this go on longer and continue to be weakness, you know, and, and, and in, you know, it’s not like I’m not in, I’m, I’m not in active pain, but it’s not, not painful at certain times. Not worrying about is this just going to become like a permanent way that I feel, which would be. Awful. Um, and, you know, and, and, and like, it’s not the most debil debilitating thing, like I said. Um, if, if I was in a position where I, I couldn’t get surgery, obviously I could be okay right now, but you never know. Also, like, when is it going to, to swap again? Right? [00:11:00] Like, and, and, and, and for me, I’m also, I’m like, I, I don’t wanna have to like, live in fear of doing something, you know, to my arm or my neck or, or whatever, and, you know, making things worse. So, Jeff: right. Oh, I’m glad you’re doing it. Christina: yeah, me too. So anyway, that was a long-winded update, but Wow. Jeff: Yeah, that’s intense. So I’m really glad the pain is not what it was ’cause Holy shit. Christina: Yeah, the pain was, was really, really bad. And I, like, I look back now and it’s, you know, I, I guess ’cause it’s been a couple of weeks since it’s been really debilitating and it is, and again, I don’t know like that this is me or this is like just somebody else, but I, or this is me or this is the comment with other people. Sorry. Um, is that. Like when I’m not in pain anymore. It is such, so much like, I mean, depression is like this too. It’s so much like a vacuum. It’s like when you’re in it, that’s all you can see. But when you’re out of it, like it’s so easy to forget what it was like Jeff: Yeah, yeah, totally. Completely. Christina: totally completely right. Yeah. Jeff: Yeah. I can even imagine being in the [00:12:00] situation you’re describing, knowing I have a surgery coming up and being like, well, do I want to? Which, like, to your point now, you make that call and you’re worrying forever. Am I gonna wake up? And this thing’s there. Next time it happens, I gotta wait another God knows how long before the surgery, when I’ll know it’s time. Like, you know it’s time now. Get in there. Christina: No, totally, totally. And and that’s the thing. And I think sometimes it can be. Like I said, like when you’re not in the thick of, of it, whether it’s like, you know, feeling depressed or feeling overwhelmed or, or stressed or, or in physical pain or whatever, like it’s easy for to forget like what that can be like. And so I have to just kind of like remind myself like, no, this was really fucking bad. And yeah, you got through it and now you’re on the other side of it. And so you’re like, oh, okay, well, you know, I, I, I could, you know, do whatever, but you’re like, don’t, don’t forget what that was like. Right. Journaling and Mental Health Christina: Um, sometimes I think like, and, and I, and I’m bad at remembering to do this, but new thing for the new year, I guess is why, um, it is important I think to like write things down, right. Like however we’re feeling, whether it’s, you know, good, bad, whatever. [00:13:00] Sometimes, like for me, like it is Jeff: Just like journal you mean, right? Christina: Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Be, because it can be useful just to like look back and like, if you’re in a darker spot to remember, hey, there were times when I felt this way. Right. Might not bring, bring me back to that place. But it’s a good reminder. But also I think almost just, it’s importantly, it’s, it’s, it’s the inverse where it’s like you need to remember when you’re in a good place. What it can be like to be in a worse place. Um, because, you know, I think that’s why sometimes people make decisions they make about what medicines they’re going to take or not take or what therapies they’re going to continue or not continue. And, um, and it’s, and it’s really easy to get into that, you know, cycle of, okay, well I’m fine now, um, because you’re removed enough from what it felt like to be bad, you know? And, and then, and, and, and also I think sometimes like, uh, and this is why I wish that I’ve been journaling more over the last few years. You can really get yourself into a deep depression and not realize it. Jeff: Yes, yes. Yeah. And I feel like journaling too, just like helps you internalize some of the flags and [00:14:00] warning signs, even if you’re never looking back, like, ’cause you’re gonna process them a little bit. Christina: yeah, yeah. Jeff: can’t, I, I’ve journaled over the years for stints of time. I can’t go back into them. I almost like, I almost like bounce off the page when I try. Um, but I really have come to believe that just the act of doing it is the thing. Christina: agree. Jeff: Yeah, Christina: Yeah, I agree. Yeah, I, I usually don’t re reread my old stuff either, and I haven’t journaled regularly in a really, really long time, and I actually would like to get back into that again. I think it would be better for my overall health, but similar to you, it’s one of those things I wouldn’t necessarily revisit, Jeff: But now, you know, you have a document, you have a reason to go back into it. Christina: right. Well, but, but also, I mean, I think to your point, just the act of doing it, um, you know, and this is case, we’re both writers. I think this is the, the case for a lot of, of people who, who write like it, it is one of those things that like, that’s what will almost like cement it in my mind. You know what I mean? Like, as, as, as mattering [00:15:00] like, like even if it’s something innocuous, even if I don’t remember the small details of just that, that the fact that like, I’ve done it, like, like to your point, helps you kind of process things and kind of, you know, act more as kind of a therapeutic place. Jeff: Yeah, I don’t, when I’m writing like that, or just in general, I don’t feel like I’m writing from my brain or feel like I’m writing on my brain. Christina: Yeah, yeah. Jeff: It’s like I am actually putting the information in, not drawing it out weirdly. Christina: Yeah. Yeah. No, I, I know, I, I, I, I love that actually, I’ve never thought of it before. Writing on my brain. I love that. That’s really, that, I think that’s really profound. Jeff: Yeah. So there’s, um, there’s a kind of journaling that I wish I, I, well, I don’t beat myself up at all to be clear about this ’cause that I’m too old to do that anymore. The Artist’s Way and Creative Practices Jeff: Um, but there’s this book I read back in. Oh God, 2019 99 called The Artist’s Way by this woman Julie Cameron. And I don’t remember much about this book except for, and I probably have talked about it on this podcast [00:16:00] years ago at this point, but she has this practice, she calls morning Pages. And the idea is you sit down first thing in the morning, you fill three pages, you don’t think about what you’re writing or why you just keep the pen moving. And, and I, what I have found, that’s the only kind of real regular journaling I’ve ever done. It’s a great, great hack for me. ’cause it, it, I can do that. And I fill, I’ll fill a, you know, big notebook and I have a box full of them from over the years. ’cause again, I’m old. Um, but what is, I have never, I don’t think there’s been a single day that I’ve done those morning pages when I haven’t been a little surprised and something hasn’t emerged that. I’m like, I’ll think to myself, well shit, if I hadn’t have done this, where would that have stayed and lived and, and lodged itself. Right. Like, um, so anyway, I I’m glad you are bringing this up ’cause it’s reminding me of that and New Year is a great time to be thinking about that. Christina: Totally, totally. No, I love that. And I, yeah, I, I found the book The Artist’s Way, a Spiritual Path to Higher [00:17:00] Creativity. Jeff: Yes, Christina: and it’s like this yellow gold book, but like, apparently, and then like they, they, they, they, they sell Morning pages Journal, a Jeff: they do, of course. I Christina: Yeah. Yeah, of course. Jeff: it probably took her two decades to realize she should be cashing in on that, but she did. Christina: No, honestly, so the book, it looks like it was published the first one in 92, Jeff: Yeah. Christina: then they were selling the companion volume to the Artist’s Way as December 29th, 1997. Um, so, so like Jeff: that you’re doing this history. This is delightful. Christina: I, well, I just looked at Amazon is just kind of filling this out for me, so I’m, I’m, I’m, I’m, I’m, I’m, so at least it is possible that, that the, the book pages might have been even earlier than that, but like, good for her on like, recognizing there’s also a Artist’s Way workbook, um, now that was like a decade later, like 2006. Jeff: Yeah, that’s what I, maybe that’s what I’m thinking of. That came much later. Christina: Yeah, yeah. But, but it does seem like she got into that, like a David Allen kind of, you know, like, you know, whatever steps of highly, you know what I mean? Like, like all that kind of like stuff, [00:18:00] which Jeff: You’re letting the publisher have those meetings with you. Christina: Which honestly look good for you if you’re selling that many and whatnot. And, and if you come up with this journaling way, yes, sell the freaking paper. You should be selling PDF copies so that people can have it on their iPads now, like, you know, Jeff: Yeah. Christina: or, or, or on the remarkable tablets or whatever. Jeff: she had another thing actually I haven’t thought about in a long time. It wasn’t as useful to me long term. It helped me in the moment I. In the moment I was in, she called ’em artist dates and the idea was like, ’cause as you said in the title, it’s all about creativity. She was like, you, you take yourself out, go to a, whatever it is, a museum, a art supply shop, something like that. But with intention, like, I am going out to do this thing on my own alone because I know that it has some connection to what feels good to me about art and creativity and expression, whatever it was. That seems like a silly thing. Like it’s basically her saying, go to a museum. There was something about calling it an artist date. I think I was in a relationship too at the time where I was like not, it was not easy for me to [00:19:00] just go do something on my own. It was just a weird dynamic a little bit. So anyway, that was another good thing that came out of it. I mean, I, you don’t really have to work hard to tell me to go do something on my own, but at that time in my life you did. Yeah, she was great. That’s awesome. Christina: Yeah. Yeah. Uh, yeah. No, that is funny. Yeah. So yeah, so apparently that book was published in, in 1992 and, um, you know, uh, was immediately like, well, the first printing was about 9,000 copies. In 1992, the book was published by Jeremy Tarcher. Now part of Pink Wing Group revised and millions of copies have since been sold millions. Jeff: it was total like guru status by the Christina: Oh yeah, absolutely. No, absolutely. You know, and, and in a, yeah, she, she was, uh, she’s a, she was born in 1948, and so, uh, she’s still alive. She’s still kicking it. Um, Jeff: yeah. I think she made some new book that was like kind of a take on it, but it was a different, I don’t remember. Anyway. You’re the Christina: Yeah, no, no. Her, her list of like, of like books that she’s published is, she’s the, the most recent one. So she’s still doing the, the, the [00:20:00] writer’s way thing, living the, the artist’s way. An intuitive path to greater creativity. So I guess they did a 2024 version Write for Life, a toolkit for Writers Seeking wisdom, A spiritual Path to Creative Connection. Six week artist program. Jeff: it’s kind of like David Allen, where it’s like, wouldn’t it be nice to have created something when you were, whatever, reasonably younger, like 20, 30 years ago, that not only that you can ride for a long time, but you probably don’t feel bad about riding it for a long time. Right? Like, ’cause you can create things or have a band or something like that, that like your only choice is to ride that thing, but it gets pretty ugly. I see you Vince Neil. Um, but yeah, anyway, must be Christina: No, it ha it has to be nice, right? ’cause it’s like, okay, well no, and, and then it has all these little spinoff things, so it’s not like you have to feel like, I mean, although th this actually, this would, this would be an interesting idea for like a, a, a novel or a screenplay or something, which would be to be like, okay, you know, and people have have done like riffs on these things before on, on, you know, shows or whatever. But, so this would be an interesting story, I think to kind of focus on where it’s like you have somebody who is like, just famous for like, this, this one thing that they did, [00:21:00] and now their whole life has to revolve around it. But what if it was like, something that they didn’t like actually, like, believe in? Jeff: yes, Christina: what if you have the guru? What if you have the guru who’s like, actually is like, actually I don’t really, you know, I’m, I’m, I’m David Allen, but I, but I can’t actually get anything done. I have to have like a whole, you know, cadre of assistance to actually organize my, my, my, my calendar and my life. For me, you know, I don’t Jeff: Carol and Pluribus, I don’t know if you’re watching Pluribus, but that Yes. Her, her whole like book series. Clearly she was at a point where she’s like, yes, I should still ride this, but I cannot. That’s all right. Things changed for her. Um, okay. I have to tell you about something insane that happened to me at the end of 25. Christina: Okay. Alright. Before, before we do that, let me let Ru first, um, let’s, uh, let’s, let’s go ahead and, and get our, our sponsor read Jeff: Oh, way to remember the sponsor. We remember you sponsor. Christina: We, we, we do. So, um, I, I, I, before we hear about what happened to you at the end of 2025, let’s, uh, let’s go ahead and talk, uh, forward a little bit about 2026. So, are you [00:22:00] ready to take control of your finances? Well meet copilot money, the personal finance app that makes your money feel clear and calm with the beautiful design and smart automation. Copilot money brings all your spending, saving and investment accounts into one place available on iOS, Mac, iPad, and now on the web. And so, as we are entering 2026, it is time for a fresh start. And, you know, with Mint, uh, shutting down last year and rising financial uncertainty, consumers are seeking clarity and control. And this is where copilot money comes in. So, copilot money. Basically helps you track your budgets, your savings goals, and your net worth seamlessly. And with a new web launch, you can enjoy a sending experience on any device. 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That’s try dot copilot money slash Overtired and use that coupon Overtired and you will, as I said, save 26% off your first year. So try copilot money slash Overtired. Use the coupon code Overtired. Thank you very much. Copilot money. Jeff: Bam. Can you hear my Synology? Christina: No, Jeff: Oh, that’s funny. ’cause I, I get this. Hum. I recently com I, I’ll visit this in GrAPPtitude. I, [00:24:00] uh, I completely clean, installed my Synology after like six years. ’cause when I did. Build it. Initially, I actually didn’t really understand how to use it, and I, and I made some mistakes that because of all the stuff I put on, it was hard to sort of, I was treating it like it was gonna be an external drive and I could just kind of work with, you know, which was a huge mistake. Um, but anyway, I, it’s working so hard. It’s working so hard and it’s on my desk, which it normally wouldn’t be. So I hear this humming. Didn’t know if you heard it. Christina: I, I did not, I did not, which is a good thing. So, okay, so, all right. Uh, let, let’s, let’s go back. So what, what, yeah, I’m ready. I need to hear what happened to you at the end of 2025. All right. Unexpected Alley Incident Jeff: All right, so, um, my boys are out. They’re almost never out, but they’re both out with friends, different places. My wife and I we’re home and we were eating dinner and I got an alert from my back door ring camera, and. That almost never happens. It’s only exists to, to notify me of like alley shoppers. We’re in, in the city. We have an alley behind us and, and we get a fair amount of pretty [00:25:00] harmless alley shopping. Like it’s, is the car unlocked? If it is, you got some change. If not, I’m moving on. Um, but I like to know when they’re there. Christina: yeah, Jeff: We’ve had some bikes stolen and some people go into our garage and stuff like that. It’s very rare that it goes off less than I actually thought it would. Um, and so it goes off and it goes off at around 7:00 PM very unusual. And, uh, and so I, I, I pull it up and I look and, and I, all I can see is there’s two cars parked in the alley. I have this weird view where, um, it’s kind of a fence and then our garage. So I can see between those two things to the alley basically. So there’s two cars. That’s weird actually. And when I see some of people’s like videos about folks breaking into their cars, there’s often two that come. And so I was like, oh, okay, well it’s, I should just like go out and look. So we go and we kind of look at our, at our back window to see if we can see anything. And we’re just like, yeah, it’s weird. They’re not only parked but the headlights are off. And like, I’m gonna go out and check it out. She’s like, well first, why don’t you look at the video it recorded, which I wasn’t thinking of at all. So I pull up the video, it recorded, and I see these [00:26:00] cars park, but it’s like three or four of them come through the two that I can see park. And all of a sudden there are probably seven or eight figures running down the alley from these cars. Okay? And I’m like, well, that’s crazy. And so I walk out there and I go up to the first car and it’s got Texas plates. And around here where we have a little bit of an ice invasion, Texas plates are reported a lot. I look at the next car and it’s got no plates at all. And I look at the car after that and it’s got vanity plates, specifically chosen one with a Z. Um, and, and I’m like, oh my God. It’s the thing like ice is in my alley. And, uh, and so I come back in, I I’m like, you tell my wife, like, should probably get your coat on. I think it’s the thing is what I said. And, and we go out and sure enough, like at the end of our alley where there is a family and, and they are, um, US citizens, they’re Mexican immigrants, um, that’s where I see all these officers sort of, or these agents sort of coalescing and um, I’m gonna leave some aspects of this out. They were [00:27:00] actually, they were serving, uh, uh, narcotics warrant that ended up being totally misguided. Nothing happened of it. Um, but it was super scary. But I kind of don’t wanna say more than that because I wanna be really clear that as everyone should know about policing, a search warrant is not an indictment. Um, and oftentimes search warrants are so searching and, and, and often come up with. With nothing. Right? And, and maybe even were targeted at the wrong person. And there’s didn’t even have the name of my neighbor on it. It’s this whole thing. But the point is, it was a little different from what we’ve been hearing because there was a different agency there serving a warrant. It was the airport, airport, police department, ’cause of a package. So there was that piece, there was actually a signed warrant. ’cause everyone’s trained to say, show me the warrant. Show me the warrant. So everyone, you know, my wife and I were the first ones there. Um, and then another neighbor rolled up, and then I’ll get to the rest in a second. Um, so it, it’s shocking that it’s happening in our alley. Christina: in our alley, right? Jeff: just like, Christina: you, yeah. Jeff: what? What the Christina: I, I mean, how [00:28:00] I would feel to a certain extent would be like, I’d be like, am I in Amer in an episode of the Americans? Like, like, you know, Jeff: is, did they have to write it this way? Just ’cause how else are you gonna bring it to the people? You know? It’s, you gotta bring it to the characters. Um, so anyway, we go down there and, and there’s one, so all of the, everyone decides the airport PD guy who has no mask and is kind of like presenting like a pretty normal cop basically. And he is got a badge and a name and a number. But walking in and out of the house, all around us are these guys who are in full battle fatigues. They’ve got masks on, they’ve got ars. Um, they are, they are a weird mix of people. There’s a woman in there who’s like looking like, literally like she was cast for a movie to be, uh, an, an ice person. In this case they were Homeland Security Investigations, HSI. But it’s all intertwined at this point. Um, and then there was a guy that must have been like eight feet. That was crazy. There was a single guy that was wearing a, like a straight up like helmet, uh, for, as if he were going into battle. [00:29:00] Nobody else is wearing a helmet. Um. And none of them were talking. They were just passing through. And, um, and so we tried to engage one of them, talked to them for a little bit, do the thing you do. Hey, why don’t you take that mask off? You know, I don’t wanna get docked. I was like, uh, Christina: around. Jeff: it was like, I both understand why you don’t wanna get docked. I also feel like you’ve got the power here, brother. Um, and which was the conversation we had, um, I was like, you have a mask on. You also have your finger on the trigger of a gun. And he’s like, well, that’s not, it’s not on the trigger. This is how we hold guns, dude. I was like, I understand that, but your finger is itching at the trigger of a gun. And so he put his hands on top of the butt of the gun. ’cause it was kind of, you know, mounted the way it is. Is that better? I was like, no, you’ve still got all the power. Take the mask off. Like, at least. Um, and uh, what, what was really interesting, and I I have this sort of like wrap up that occurred to me later that kind of blew my mind is, you know, in our neighborhood, um, because ice activity has been going on all around our neighborhood, like in. Neighborhoods [00:30:00] surrounding our neighborhood or a little further out, but all within a, I could get in the car and rush out there distance. Basically we have these, we have these neighborhood signal groups. The first one that popped up was actually around my son’s school, which is very close to here and has a lot of East African and Hispanic, um, immigrants and, and, um, and so that we knew that was like, you know, people were scared there. Some kids weren’t coming to school. And so, um, some neighbors organized in such a way that they could a, have a signal, uh, communication channel. But also part of that was planning at the beginning of the day and that release time for enough people to sort of be paired up in areas around the school, but not so close that it freaks the kids out. That like if something happened, there could be sort of a rapid response. So we had that signal group. There’s a broader signal group that probably covers like a four block area, and then there’s a wider one that’s our wider neighborhood basically. And that one’s like a rapid response signal group. So these have been going. Pretty, like consistently [00:31:00] ever since it was announced that we were getting ICE and Homeland Security folks here. Um, so the network was all in place. And, and so I’m out there initially and I see all the cars. I’m like, holy shit. Wife and I go to the end of the block. We start talking to first the airport PD guy who’s there, and then the the one HSI guy who comes out. Then another neighbor, another neighbor. I go back to take pictures of the plates because folks around here are keeping a registry that you can get through the signal group of all of the makes and models of cars that we know have been at these, um, kind of ICE activities or homeland security activities, and then their license plates. And so there’s like a running log, which has happened in other cities too. So I was taking pictures of all the cars. Um, but I was pretty like, I mean, I’ve been through some shit and. Having it in your alley is very different from going halfway across the world as like an activist or something. Um, and having it ha neighbors are people we know and care about. And so knowing that, not knowing what’s happening for them, which I don’t mean to bury that lead [00:32:00] ’cause I’m kind of getting to that part, but I also want to just respect their privacy. Um, so like the thing I should have mentioned at the top is like, we know these folks and it was fucking terrifying to be standing there arguing with these HSI guys knowing that at some point, or just assuming at some point these people we know are gonna be dragged outta the house in front of us. And then it was just like this constant question of what the fuck will we do? Then? It did not happen to be really clear, uh, ahead of time. So I’m taking pictures of these cars, I’m like, oh shit. I’m supposed to notify like the signal group, but I’ve got, I’ve got all the presence I need to take pictures of cars. I’ve got the presence I need to engage these guys, which my wife was doing plenty good job of, so I could just like walk away and do the license plate thing. But when I pulled up my phone. To open signal. I opened Slack three times, like I could not, I got an S into my search, my app search, and like kept clicking the wrong thing. I was shaking. It was also freezing out and so like I’m shaking and so [00:33:00] thank God it occurred to me. I have one friend I know on this signal group that I, I know would answer the phone, so I called her. I called her and I was like, I need to be quick. Here are like the fundamental details. Can you please notify? The signal group and the rapid response people. So that was great. She did initially, the first group that showed up, which was just incredible, were like all of our neighbors, we all know this family. Like it’s not, they are just neighbors. It’s not like it’s a special offset group or something. Like they’re neighbors. So all of the neighbors show up. We have a really tight block. Um, that was incredible because it’s not like it’s a neighbor of activists. It’s what’s been incredible about this stuff from the beginning, which is like how easy it seems to be for people to pop outta their house and be like, Uhuh. Like it seems like, it seems like a lot of people are not feeling inhibited about that, which I think is really cool. And I totally respect the people that feel inhibited, right? Like, ’cause it’s just, it’s a whole thing to go out there. So we had this great group of neighbors and they were all, we had a public school teacher who was just killing it with this one HSI guy. It was so, [00:34:00] so good to watch and it felt really powerful and I think she was doing a really good job of trying to sort of like. Knock some things into this guy’s head knowing that like, you know, you’re in a dynamic that kind of you, there’s not a lot of room for things to change. Right. But given that she, it was really just inspiring watching her do her thing and then the like rapid response community showed up, which is like a mix of, you know, folks who are kind of just dedicated neighbors and then people who are sort of what you might call the usual suspects, right? Like the people you would expect, especially in South Minneapolis to show up at a thing like this. And I don’t know if you’ve heard about the thing people do with whistles around these things. Christina: Yeah. Well, I, I, all I’ve heard is that, and I ha, so all I know is I think sometimes people have whistles and kind of like, like, like blow them, almost like to alert people like that, that like, like the, like the, the, the, that like ice is there. Jeff: Yes, exactly. And that yes, that’s exactly it. And that’s been going on here and, [00:35:00] and everybody’s getting whistle. You know, sometimes when you get a good, it’s, I’m not calling it a bit, ’cause I’ll tell you in a minute why it was effective, um, in ways that I hadn’t anticipated. But, uh, you know, it’s like a, it’s, I can do this, I can get a whistle, I’m gonna get a whistle, right? Like, that’s something I can do. Like, it’s something that really caught on and there’s all these whistles being passed around and people on the neighborhood group being like, got a bag of whistles if you wanna come by. So I, ima imagine at this point that when these HSI or ICE people roll up to a thing before they get out, they’re like T minus 15 minutes to whistles, right? Like, this is how long we have before everyone shows up. And, and so pretty soon it’s whistles everywhere. I had a neighbor who kept putting off her, um. Car alarm just to make more crazy noise. We had another neighbor next to this neighbor who is a very conservative like Trump guy who, when he doesn’t like the noise that’s happening in the neighborhood sets off fireworks. And for some reason he was like, I’m gonna do the thing I do, even though there’s all these guys with guns and I’m gonna set off fireworks. But in that case, ’cause he is pissed off at all of us, like it was so [00:36:00] fucking chaotic for a minute. Um, but it was, it was an incredible thing to see how quickly people can deploy basically. Um, ’cause we aren’t like Chicago where like we’ve had a lot of activity here, but it’s been pretty quiet activity. Like, it’s like what happened here? It’s like you and your neighbors know about it and maybe 20 people showed up from your neighborhood rapid response. But like, they’re not the kinds of stories that. They’re not landing on rooftops, they’re not showing up with a hundred cars and calling people away. They’re hauling one person at a time away. And you hear about it here and there, but it’s been very quiet, unlike Chicago. Um, and so to have it given that, especially to have it show up just in your alley was like really, really insane. Um, so anyway, so it all, fortunately the, the police HSI, everybody left with nothing. They did not carry our neighbors away. They did not have any, any result of this warrant that we could tell. But of course, we’re not gonna know. Another [00:37:00] theme of this is how, how hard it is for good information to be resilient in a moment like this, right? That’s a whole other theme. And that, that’s one that gets me kinda riled up when people start after the fact or during the fact really kind of shouting out almost things that are wrong. Like the, the call that went out. For people to come. Said there were six cars in my alley with Texas plates, but I was very clear, there are six cars in my alley. One of them has Texas plates, right? So it’s like, that kind of stuff is a little spooky, but here’s what happened. So at the end it was all over. Our neighbors were able to pop out, wave at everybody, thank everybody. They had been handcuffed this family, um, in their living room while HSI figured out if they were citizens. And, um, what had what the whistles meant in this case was that they knew people were all over around the house. And that was, I’m sure, a level of comfort to know that like something’s happening out there. And then we learned later that there was an immigrant family down the block in the [00:38:00] other direction, across kind of a thoroughfare that we’re on the intersection of who heard the whistles and knew like, let’s stay in the house. There’s a lot going on out there. I dunno what it is, but now I hear whistles. Let’s stay in the house. And, um, and so it was quite a, quite a thing. Family Activism and Signal Setup Jeff: And what I kind of realized afterwards. Was we started this year. My family, my in-laws, my in-laws especially, were very, they’re, they’re, they’re very, um, active. They do kind of activist work, but it’s very like, um, service oriented. But they’ll go to an anti-war protest. They’ll go, you know, they’ll do the thing. They’re, they’re lovely people. And my father-in-law, especially at the beginning of the year, I was like, I don’t know what’s coming. Um, I hear that it’s good for everyone to have signal if we wanna be able to communicate to each other. So I wanna learn how to use signal. And so I helped him, my mother-in-law set it up. I created kind of a family group for Signal and everyone was setting up signal, right? Like at that point, not knowing what was gonna come. It wasn’t even January 20th yet. Unexpected End of Year Incident Jeff: And I wrapped up my year activating a signal network for rapid response because I [00:39:00] had masked people in my alley with guns refusing to identify themselves driving cars from out of state. That is insane. And I was like, that looks pretty tight. Season wrap up. Like, what the fuck? Because I kind of had gotten to the point, I guess prior to when ICE got here in, in the first place, I’d gotten to the point where I’m like, I don’t even really think about Signal anymore. Um, but then they came here and it, and it popped up. So that’s what, that’s what happened in my alley. Um, at the end of the year. Christina: And, and, and, and, and, and I mean, and, and, and you said, you said your neighbors are okay. Speculations and Concerns Christina: I mean, do, do you know anything more about like, like what, what happened or like what the, what the situation was? Jeff: I don’t know anymore. And that’s where I’m like a little cautious because since it was like a warrant for something, it was a narcotics warrant, right? Like, I, I have no idea what happened there. I don’t know. I can, I can only speculate. Um, but I know that the, the [00:40:00] name on that warrant was not someone that lives there. Um, so I can tell you that ’cause I saw the warrant. Um, and, and that’s the most I really feel comfortable saying. Christina: Fair enough. Yeah. I, I, I, I, yeah. I’m not, I’m not trying to like, Jeff: No, I get it. I get it. That’s me actually. Dealing with Law Enforcement Jeff: I’ve been wrestling with like, how much, even on the, I kind of like was asking people to be cautious, even on the signal, because they were sharing details about the warrant. I was like, Hey, details in a warrant. Do not share those, because that sticks to people. And like the details in the warrant were just like, no, we’re not gonna do this. Even when the guy read me the warrant, I was like, are you serious about that? He’s like, oh man, for sure. Okay, sounds good. Let’s, we’ll talk in an hour when you’re all done and you don’t have anything. Like I, I’ve been down this road before. I was a reporter for a long time, like I watched The Wire. Um, Christina: exactly. I was gonna say, yeah, I was gonna say the, the sort of reporting I did, like, yeah, I watched the Wire. Um, so would be Jeff: I said that to the guy. I didn’t say I watched the, yeah, I didn’t say I watched The Wire to the guy, but I was like, he [00:41:00] kept gaslighting us and I was like, come on man. Like you and I we’re smart people, you and I, and that was me being generous. But like, we’re smart people. You and I like, we know this thing you’re saying. It’s like, it’s totally not the case. Like when I asked him. The airport PD guy. What’s up with the cars with Texas plates and no plates and vanity plates? I don’t know, I don’t coordinate with those guys. I was like, okay, that’s weird. ’cause like here you are and they’re walking all around you. Surely you coordinated with them enough to get them here. It was just like, what the fuck? Just so much gaslighting that I won’t even get into, but it was just nonstop. But I was so proud watching my neighbors when the rapid responsible showed up. It was a, there’s always like some people in those situations where I, I, I get pretty activated around lack of discipline and I understand how that happens. But having been in like really super high stakes situations where people could, and who this was one, right? Like I don’t, I don’t react well internally to people who I feel like are working out something that’s theirs. Um, [00:42:00] and at the same time, how do we know how to process this, right? Like, I don’t, we, it was something incredible to watch Mask men and one masked woman walking up and down my alley, bumping past me with guns, with masks, with no idea, with no badges, refusing to pro produce any saying, why does it matter anyhow, saying how much threat they’re under, seeing how they get followed, like just, it was, it was an incredible thing. I had my reaction, but my reaction was based on wiring, based on really intense, unusual experiences. Um, other people, this is new to them. This kind of thing is new to me too, but, so anyway, I, I just like, I saved that. I didn’t even tell you guys when it happened. I’m like, I’ll just tell them on the podcast. ’cause Christina: yeah, no, I mean, that’s, that’s wild. I mean, like, and it’s just, it’s just, well, and, and it’s, I don’t know, it’s so dystopic, right? Like, it’s such a, like a, a terrible like thing to like have to like witness part of, right? Because like, look, yeah, there are going to be circumstances when maybe like, you know, Homeland Security or somebody else, like really actually does need to be involved and, you know, [00:43:00] um, you know, at your neighbor’s house. And like, that’s unfortunate, right? But like, there, there are real circumstances where that could be a case. Like I, I, I, I, I mentioned the, the Americans earlier, that was like, based Jeff: I need to watch that. Christina: It’s a great show. But, but the, the, the, uh, a former CIA agent was one of the, the, the, the creators. But the, um, the idea came to like, uh, one of the showrunners basically, he read an article, I think in the New Yorker or something about a, a family that like seemed like, just like the perfect, like normal family next door. And like the kids came home from school one day and the parents had been picked up because it turns out that they had been Russian spies living in the United States for like 20 years. And like, they were like actual Russian spies. And, and then that kind of like went into, okay, well, well, well, what happens then? Like, what happens to that family and, and what happens to get to that point? Like, what happens? Like if your neighbors are those things, right? And so there are those like very much like stranger than fiction. Like, like things, right? But in most cases, that’s not the circumstance. And, and certainly the way that like all this has been handled and the way that they’re doing all of this treat things for, [00:44:00] you know, like whatever the warrants were for whatever the situations are where they’re like, okay, now we’re gonna bring all these other groups in. We’re not going to have any due process at all, and we’re not going to, to bother with any sort of thing of humanity at all and then freak everybody else out, like is just, you know, then, and then it puts you like, as, as the neighbor, like in this position where you’re like, okay, well how do we get the word out? How do we help, how do we, you know, make sure that if’s something, is that if this is something that you know, isn’t what we, what we think that it is or whatever, that we can make sure that they’re not going to be. ’cause we see all the reports all the time. I mean, US citizens are getting arrested for, Jeff: Yeah, totally. Christina: the wrong way, Jeff: Oh yeah, we had a, we had a woman here probably, I think she was like in her sixties, and she walked out of her house ’cause there was something happening across the street. And in moments she was in the car, she was gone. Her husband didn’t know where she was. She was released later that day. Like we’ve had a lot of stories like that. And so that was stressful too, going in, right? Like when my partner and I went, went up to talk to this guy, I, I left down the alley to take pictures, but I [00:45:00] was like looking over my shoulder constantly. ’cause she and I have talked about how, like, can you imagine if one of us was taken and we didn’t know? And I was like, oh, we are in a situation right now where no way can I say, there’s no chance one of us will be taken. Like, no way. And you know, the longer you’re there, the more you push it a little bit, you know, not push it like physically or something, but just like push it a little more people out front. Someone kicked an ice car in, in an HSI car and got like pepper sprayed or whatever. Um, Christina: and it’s, and it’s like, don’t do that. Like, don’t like, Jeff: Well, it’s funny because, it’s funny because that per I, this is, I, I know there are people listening who will think I’m such an asshole for this, but I, to I, I feel zero apologetic for it. Reflections on Responsibility Jeff: So I am, I’m not like a huge fan, like kick the car when there’s a family that we don’t know how they’re doing and these people are around, like, don’t escalate in that way with these people. Don’t set off fireworks behind the guys that have their fingers resting near triggers. Like you Christina: That’s what I’m saying. That, that, yeah. Jeff: yeah, you just don’t do that. Uh, but here’s the part that makes me sound like an asshole and, and I don’t mind at all. [00:46:00] Um, they were, they were the only person that was pepper sprayed. And, and it was this, you know, certain people that come from outside the neighborhood. It was this very dramatic thing, whatever they pepper spray, you know, whatever. And I was like, what, what happened? They kicked the car. I was like, eh, I’m going in like, I mean like, yeah, you got pepper spray because you kicked the car. I assume you were in for that. Like you signed just like the guy with the mask who’s worried about being docked. He signed up for this dude. Christina: I was gonna say, you, you, you, you signed up for this, you, you, you, you’ve signed up because you saw Christina O’s you know, like ridiculous, like, you know, like, come, come join Ice, you know, like, like, you know, freaking social media, you know, posts or whatever, like there ads you’re doing like, yeah. Like you, you know exactly what you’re doing, so fuck off. I don’t, yeah, I have zero. Jeff: I I said you signed up for this. I did not sign up for this. I said you signed up for all of it, dude. Like you Christina: Yeah, absolutely. No, I mean, honestly, well, well look, you know, it’s the same thing like the military, frankly, like, you know, like in the, in, in the seventies and stuff, and we saw, you know, more of it then, like, I’m not saying that it was like the, the right or like nice or like humane thing to spit in the, in their faces. [00:47:00] Right. But like. Especially after the draft was gone. Like, you sign up for that shit, Jeff: It’s a tough man. I, I had that, I, that experience throughout the Iraq war where. I knew. I mean, there’s the economic draft. There’s all right, there’s all these reasons people end up in war. But at the end of the day, when I am walking around a city I love, and other Americans are there in armor and Humvees and they have destroyed a city, I feel like this is what you signed up for. It’s not what you signed up for, but it is literally what you signed. Same with police. It’s a little bit Christina: that’s Jeff: I totally respect the trauma. I respect that you’re in situations where Christina: that’s real. No. Jeff: your values. Like I Christina: Absolutely. Absolutely. And, and, and that, that is real. And, and to your point, there might be like, like economic scenarios, drafts and other scenarios where like you’re like, well, I had a choice, but I didn’t have a choice. Okay, but you knew that this was a trade off. Like you knew that this was a thing that comes with, with, with the territory. If it comes with adulation, but it comes with the bad stuff too. Right. Jeff: And if you’re killing people, I don’t feel super bad about saying that. I feel super bad for you for having to live with that [00:48:00] fact. But like I don’t feel bad for saying, Hey man, Christina: well, I mean, like, and, and it’s a Jeff: have said no. Christina: and it’s a completely different like thing. I’m not even trying to categorize it the same way. ’cause it’s, it’s not. But like, just, just like in, in my life, you know, people oftentimes will like, yell at me about stuff that they don’t like, about, like the companies like that I work for. And you know, what I, I’m, I’m part of my job is to kind of be a public face for, for those things. And that means that I get yelled at and that’s okay. And like that, that I, I quite literally knew that I signed up for that. Does that mean that I always appreciate it? That is, does that mean that I don’t get annoyed sometimes? Does that mean that I like being like tarred and feathered with like mistakes or decisions that like, I had nothing to do with Absolutely not right. But like, that’s quite literally part of my job. So, you know, it, it, it is. So I can’t like turn around and be like, oh, well, you know, you can’t, you know, like. You know, say, say this to me, or whatever. Right. Um, but, and, and again, I realize it’s a completely different scale of things. I’m not in any way trying to equate the, the, the, the two [00:49:00] scenarios, Jeff: No, but it’s, I mean, it is, yeah, Christina: but all of us, but all of us, we have jobs and we do things and like in a case like this, like if you work for those agencies, right. Especially right now, and like I recognize and I can be sympathetic that you may not have signed up. Under these circumstances. Having said that, I will say that if you signed up in the last eight years, you knew that these were things that were going in a certain direction, right? Um, I, I, I, I, I will, I will further say that like I, I’m not gonna say that like every single person is involved, but I will say like in the last eight years, you’ve, you’ve seen which way the wind was going and, and, and, and, and that’s okay. You can make that decision and, and like, I’m not gonna judge you or your character as a person for that decision. I’m, I’m, I’m, I’m not. ’cause we all have to make decisions about where we work. Having said that, that just also means like what we’ve been saying, you’re gonna have to deal with some shit. You’re gonna deal with people recording your face. You’re gonna have to deal with people being angry with you. You’re gonna have to deal with, to your point, people kicking the cop car. And if that’s all that happens and like, and, and, and, and it’s not gonna lead to another escalation point, that’s fine. I, I’m with you. I

Brett and Christina host an OG episode. Christina talks about her upcoming spinal surgery and navigating insurance hassles. Brett talks about his sleep issues, project progress, and coding routines. They dive into the complexities of USB-C cables, from volts to data rates. And TV’s just ‘okay’ now, except for some softcore gay porn. Kagi search saves the day. Happy holidays — and get some sleep. Sponsor Copilot Money can help you take control of your finances. Get a fresh start with your money for 2026 with 26% off when you visit try.copilot.money/overtired and use code OVERTIRED. Shopify is the commerce platform behind 10% of all eCommerce in the US, from household names like Mattel and Gymshark, to brands just getting started. Get started today at shopify.com/overtired. Show Links CaberQu BLE cable tester Umami Analytics Plausible Analytics Kagi The Comfortable Problem of Mid TV – The New York Times Fallout Heated Rivalry (TV Series 2025– ) – IMDb Chapters 00:00 Introduction and Greetings 00:40 Christina’s Health Update 05:05 Brett’s Sleep and Work Routine 12:19 USB-C Cable Confusion 22:03 Sponsor Break: Shopify 24:26 Sponsor Break: Copilot Money 26:57 Exploring Rocket Money and Web Interfaces 27:21 Discovering Umami Analytics 28:06 Nostalgia for Mint and Fever 28:44 The Decline of RSS and Google Reader 31:45 Switching to Kagi Search Engine 32:33 The Rise of AI-Generated Content 40:46 TV Shows: Is TV Just Okay Now? 47:24 The Cultural Phenomenon of Heated Rivalry 52:50 Wrapping Up and Holiday Wishes Join the Conversation Merch Come chat on Discord! Twitter/ovrtrd Instagram/ovrtrd Youtube Get the Newsletter Thanks! You’re downloading today’s show from CacheFly’s network BackBeat Media Podcast Network Check out more episodes at overtiredpod.com and subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your favorite podcast app. Find Brett as @ttscoff, Christina as @film_girl, Jeff as @jsguntzel, and follow Overtired at @ovrtrd on Twitter. Transcript Universal Serial Bitching Introduction and Greetings [00:00:00] Brett: Hey, you’re listening to Overtired. I am Brett Terpstra, and it’s just me and Christina Warren this morning. How you doing, Christina? Christina: Doing pretty good. Doing pretty good. Yeah. This is the, this is the OG Overtired configuration. Brett: right back to basics. Um, Christina: We do miss you Jeff, though. Ho, ho, ho. Hope that Jeff is having a great holiday with his family. Brett: we’ll have to have some, uh, gratuitous Wiki K hole that you go down just to, to commemorate the olden days. Um, so yeah, let’s, uh, let’s, let’s do a quick check-in. Christina’s Health Update Brett: Um, I’m curious about your health and all of the wildness that’s going on with your spine and whatnot. Christina: Yeah. Yeah. Um, same. I wanna hear about you too. Um, so, uh, Christina’s cervical spine update, as it were. Um, I am [00:01:00] still waiting to, as we’re recording this, which is like. Uh, three days before Christmas, uh, I’m still waiting to hear from the, uh, hospital to see if I can, when I can get scheduled. Um, insurance has sort of been a pain in the ass, so when I talked to them last week, they were like, we sent them some paperwork. We’re still waiting for some things back then. I called the insurance company and the, the, uh, like my insurance is like, has like an intermediary service that is supposed to contact the insurance company on your behalf and that person, but like, I can’t contact them directly. And then that person was like, oh, you don’t need pre-authorization. Go ahead and schedule the surgery. And I’m like, this doesn’t feel right. Um, so, but, but we, we went ahead and we called back the, you know, the, the surgeon, um, his office and they were very nice and we were like. They say that we can get on the books. So I don’t know when that will be. I’m hoping that it will be, you know, like the first week of January, um, or, or, or thereabouts. Um, but I don’t know. Um, [00:02:00] so I am still kind of in this like limbo stage where I don’t know exactly when I’m gonna have the surgery, except hopefully soon. And, um, and, and for anyone who hasn’t caught up, I, uh, I have a bulging disc on C seven on my cervical spine, and I’m going to get a, um, artificial disc replacement. Um, so they’re gonna take out the, you know, bulging bone and all that and put in, uh, some synthetic piece and then hopefully that will immediately relieve the, the pain that has been primarily through the left side of, uh, my arm and my shoulder, um, uh, down through my fingers. But it’s been on my right side a little bit too. So hopefully when that is done, it’ll be a relatively short recovery. Um, I’ll have an early scar and um, I will be, you know, not. Uh, the pain right now, like the levels aren’t terrible, but I’m pretty numb, uh, on my, my, my left arm, my, my right arm, um, uh, or right fingers I guess too, but, but really it’s, it’s, uh, the, the, the left side [00:03:00] that’s the worst. And traveling. Um, I’m, I’m in Atlanta with my family right now and, you know, kind of doing other things is just not, it’s not great. So, um, hopefully I’ll be getting surgery sooner rather than later. But obviously all that stuff does impact your mental health too, when you’re in pain and, and you, you know, are freaked out too about, you know, like, even though like they do, you know, it, it’s not an uncommon surgery and, and it, and it should be fine, but you know, there’s always these things in the back of your mind. You’re like, okay, well what if something goes wrong or whatever. So I’m just, I’m looking forward to, um, you know, light at the end of the tunnel, but um, still kind of in a holding pattern with that. So Brett: Wow. So that scar’s, that scar’s gonna be on your throat. Christina: Yeah, Brett: Wow. Christina: yeah. Like probably like. No, not really. I’m, I mean, I’m hoping that it’ll be, uh, like no, it really won’t be at all. Brett: I, I, I would like to have it. I can understand why you wouldn’t. Christina: yeah, I mean, you know, I will obviously, you know, uh, hopefully it’ll be like low enough to be [00:04:00] primarily covered by shirts or other things, although, who knows? ’cause I do like to wear like, lower cut things sometimes. I don’t know. It, it’ll hopefully, you Brett: I heard chokers are coming back. Christina: Yeah, I don’t, unfortunately. I think it’s gonna be too, uh, low for that. Brett: Okay. Christina: uh, like, it, it’s gonna be, I think like it might hit against my laryn is, is what they say. That’s the other thing too. I might have, you know, some hoarseness after, won’t we permanent? Um, you know, knock on wood. Um, Brett: go on Etsy, you can get, um, they’re for BDSM, they’re like neck, uh, they hold your chin up. They’re like posture enhancers. Uh, but they sell them within leather with like corset straps. ’cause they’re like A-B-D-S-M accessory. That would work. Christina: No, no. Not even once. Uh, not even once. I mean, look, a good group of people who wanna do that, uh, I I will not be wearing a collar of any sort of that sort of thing. Uh, I, I, I don’t, I don’t really wanna, wanna be part [00:05:00] of, uh, one of that, those types of, you know, uh, Harlequin romance novels. , Brett’s Sleep and Work Routine Brett: All right, well, I will go ahead and check in. Um, I, I’m sleeping really well for like two days at a time, and then I’ll have. A string of like five or six hours of sleep, which isn’t nothing. Um, but it’s not quite enough for me to not feel tired all the time. And two nights of sleep is not enough for me to catch up on sleep. And, um, so I’m kind of, this has been going on for like a year though, so it’s, I’m just kind of, I’m used to it and I’ve learned to operate pretty well on six or seven hours of sleep, even though historically like I need eight and a half. Um, but I’m doing okay and I get up about four every morning and I start coding and I usually code from like four to noon, so an eight [00:06:00] hour workday, uh, with a breakfast somewhere in there. And, um, I’ve made really good progress. Marked is, as far as I can tell, ready to go wide with the beta. Um. I think I’ve solved every bug that’s been reported so far. I only have about a hundred testers right now, um, but I’m gonna open it up, uh, try to get maybe a thousand testers for a couple weeks and then go for a live release. The biggest thing that I’m running into is problems with getting the, like free trial and the purchase mechanisms working, which is the exact same thing that’s holding up NV Ultra right now. Um, so if I can figure it out for Mark, I can port it to NV Ultra. I can have two apps out there making money, hopefully never have to get a job again. Um, I’m teamed up right now with Dan Peterson, formerly of One Password. Um, and we’re [00:07:00] working on some iOS apps and. And, uh, apex. My, my, all my Universal markdown processor is, it’s coming along really well. I’ve, I’ve put it out there. Um, I’ve talked to John Gruber a little bit about it. He’s gonna give it more of a workout and get back to me. Um, but I think, I think it’s getting to a point where I would be comfortable integrating it into Mark and even talking to some other, uh, apps about using it as their default processor, um, and kind of alleviating some of the issues people run into with, uh, differences in syntax. Um, I. I, I, I talked to Devon, think, uh, Eric from Devon think about using it. ’cause they use multi markdown right now, uh, which has a lot of cool features, but is not [00:08:00] really in sync with what most of the web is using these days. Um, so I talked to them about it and they’re like, oh, we had the exact same idea and we’re almost done with our own universal processor. Um, and theirs is gonna output like RTF and things that I don’t need apex to do. ’cause you can just pipe apex into panoc and do everything you need. So anyway, I’m, I’m tired. I’m, I’m in good spirits. I. I’m dealing fine with winter. My, I’m alone on Christmas, which is gonna be weird. Um, my family’s outta town. Elle is house sitting I’ll, I’ll go visit Elle, but most of the day I’m gonna be like by myself on Christmas and I don’t drink anymore. And I, I don’t, I don’t know how that’s gonna go yet. Um, initially I thought, oh, that’s fine. I like being alone. But then, [00:09:00] then the idea of like, not having anyone to talk to you on Christmas day started to feel a little depressing. Christina: Yeah. Yeah. Um, but, um, hopefully, um, when, when will, uh, when will I’ll be back from, from house sitting. How long is, uh, are, are they going to be Brett: I think. I think the people, the, the house owners come back Thursday or Friday. Christina: Okay. Brett: Then we’re gonna take off and go up to Minneapolis to hang out with her family for a weekend. So, I don’t know. It’ll, it’s gonna be fine. It’s gonna be fine. We’re gonna like cook on Christmas Eve and, and have leftovers on Christmas day. It’ll be fine. Christina: Yeah, yeah. Well, but, but it, but, but that is weird. Like, I’m sure like to be, you know, not, not, not, not with like your usual crew, but, um, [00:10:00] especially without the alcohol there. But that’s probably a good thing too. Brett: Yeah, I guess. Um, I will have all the cats. I’ll be fine. I have to take care of the dog too. Christina: Have, have you heard any updates, like, um, I guess, um, about when you were, you know, you were in the hospital a few times over the last year with, with various things. Did you ever get any definitive update on what that was? Brett: On which one? I have so many symptoms. Which one are we talking about? Christina: Well, I guess I, I guess when you, you know, you’ve had to be like hospitalized or Brett: The pancreatitis. Christina: had the pancreatitis. Brett: the, the fact that it hasn’t happened again since I stopped drinking, um, really does indicate that it was entirely alcohol that was causing the problem. Um, so yeah, I’m just, I’m never gonna drink again. That’s fine. It’s, it’s all fine. Um, I did, I did get approved to get back on Medicaid. Um, so [00:11:00] yeah, I haven’t gotten the paperwork in the mail yet. Uh, but my old card should just start working and I’ll be able to, my, my new doctor wants a whole bunch more tests, including an MRI of my pituitary gland. Um. Like testosterone tests and stuff that I guess is more specific to what she thinks might be going on with me. Um, but now I can, I can actually get those tests That would’ve been just a huge out-of-pocket expense over the last couple months. So I’m excited. I’m excited to be back on Medicaid. I wish everyone could have Medicaid. Christina: Yeah, that would be really nice. That would be really nice if, if, if we had systems like that available, um, for everyone. Um, but. Instead, you know, if they’re, like, if you have really great health, I mean, you, you pointed those out. Like you have really great health insurance if you [00:12:00] can prove that you, you know, make absolutely no money. Um, but, but that opens up so many other, you know, issues that most people aren’t lucky enough to be able Brett: right. Yeah, totally. Christina: right. Brett: All right, well do you, okay, first topic. USB-C Cable Confusion Brett: How much do you know about USBC cables and the various specs? Christina: Uh, Brett: you know a shit ton. Christina: I do, unfortunately, I know a lot. Brett: So I, I had been operating under the assumption that there were basically, you had like data USBC cables, you had, uh, thunderbolt USBC cables and you had like, power only USPC cables. It turns out there’s like 18 different varieties of different, uh, like vol, uh, voltage, uh, amperage, uh, levels, like total wattage basically. And, um, and transfer speeds. And, [00:13:00] um, and there’s like maximum links for different types of cable. And it, it, I started to understand why like. One device would charge with one cable and another device would not charge with the same cable, even though they all have the same connector. Christina: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think this is, this is why, um, some of us have been really like eye rolly at the EU for their pronouncements about certain things, because simply mandating a connector type doesn’t actually solve the problem. Brett: No, it actually confuses it a little bit Christina: I think Yeah, I was going to say exactly. I think in some cases it makes it worse. Right? And, and then you have different, like, and, and then getting SB four into it, uh, uh, versus like, like, like, like various Thunderbolt versions. Like that adds complications too, because technically SB four and Thunderbolt four should basically be the same, but they’re not really, there are a couple of things that Thunderbolt might have that [00:14:00] USB four doesn’t necessarily have to have, although for all intents and purposes they might be the same. And then of course, thunderbolts five is its own thing too. So like I bought off of Kickstarter, I got like this, you know, like a cable charger, basically like, like a connector thing. It was like $120. For this, this, this thing that basically you can plug a cable into and you can see its voltage and um, or not voltage, I guess it’s uh, you know, amperage or whatever. And you can see like, it, it, it’s transfer speed and you can basically like check that on like a little display, which is useful, but the fact that like, you have to buy that sometimes. So like figure out, well, okay, well which cable is this? Right? And then, uh, to your point about lengths, right? So like, okay, so you want something that’s going to be fast charging but also high speed data transfer. Alright, well that means that you, the cable’s gonna have to be stiff. It’s not gonna be able to be something that’s really bendable. Um, which of course is what most people are going to want. So like you can get a fast charge, like a 240 wat or a hundred and, you know, 20 wat or, or [00:15:00] whatever, um, like a USB 2.0 transfer speed cable. But if you want one that’s, uh, going to be, you know, fast charging and. Fast data transfer, then like that’s a different type. And they have like limited lengths, which again, can also be associated with like Thunderbolt or Thunderbolt. You know, cables are much more expensive. Um, and, uh, uh, you know, the, the, the, but their, their lengths are limited. Um, yeah. Uh, it’s very confusing. Brett: Did you know that in rare circumstances there are even devices that will only charge with an A to C cable. Christina: Yes, Brett: That’s so insane. Christina: yeah, no, I’ve run into that myself and then that’s a weird thing and I don’t even know how that should work. ’cause it’s, it’s, it’s a bizarre thing. You’re like, okay, well I thought this was just like a, you know, maybe like a dumb end, but it’s like, no, there’s like, you know, basically a microchip Brett: Like a two pin to two pin. Christina: at this point. Brett: Like two pen to two pen, no pd like you would think that would work with C to C, [00:16:00] but somehow it has to be A to c. I am getting one of those cable testers. I asked for one for Christmas so I could figure out this pile of cables I have and like my Sonos Ace headphones are very particular about which cables and what, um, charging hub I hooked them up to Christina: Right. Oh, yeah, hubs. I was gonna say, hubs introduce a whole other complication into this too, because depending on what hub you’re using, if you’re using a USB hub, it may or may not have certain things versus a Thunderbolt hub versus something else, versus just like, um, you know, a power brick. Like, yeah. Brett: Yeah. It’s fun stuff you. Christina: Yeah. No, it’s annoying. And, um, like, and what, what’s frustrating about this is like some of the cables that they’re better, like you can look at the, you know, the bottoms of them and you can see like they will have like the USB like four, or they might have 3.2, or they might have, you know, like the thunderbolt, you know, um, uh, icon [00:17:00] with, with, with its version. So you can figure out is this 20 gigabits, is this 40, is this 80? Um, but um. That’s not a guaranteed thing, and that also doesn’t guarantee authenticity of stuff, right? So a lot of the cables, you know, you buy off the internet can be, you know, and they might be, or even at stores, right? Like you’re, you’re not buying something from, even if you get things from Belkin or whoever, like, those things can have issues too. Um, although they at least tend to have better warranties. I bought a Balkan, um. Uh, like a, a, a PD cable, like a two 40 cable that I think it was like, you know, uh, 10 feet longer something. It was supposed to have some sort of long warranty and, and because the, the, you know, um, faster transfer ones, um, are, even though it was braided, you know, it stiff and it, it broke, like there was, uh, the, like the, you know, the connect with the part of the, the, the cable near the, the end, um, did that thing that typically apple cables do, where like, it, it sort of [00:18:00] fraying and you started like seeing the exposed wires and then like, you start to like, feel like, you know, like an electric charge, like Brett: A little tingle. Christina: you’re Yeah. And you’re like, okay, this isn’t good. Um, and so I at least had my Amazon receipt, so I was able to like. Get them to mail me a new one relatively easily. And like Anchor has an okay warranty too. But it’s one of those things you’re like, okay, when did I buy this? I was like, I didn’t even buy this a year ago, and this thing already crapped out. Um, versus, you know, you can get some really nice braided cables that are flexible, but they’re just gonna be 2.0 speeds. Um, and, and then if you buy, you know, you just buy like some random cable, you know, like at the airport or whatever. You’re like, all right, well, I don’t even know Brett: Great. Christina: anything about this. Uh, yeah, Brett: I have heard good things. I’ve heard good things about the company. Cable Matters. Christina: Yeah. Yeah. They make good stuff. They make good stuff. But again, at least the cables matters, cables that I have have been primarily stiffer cables because they tend to be like the, the higher transfer [00:19:00] speeds. So, um, like I have a cable, cable matters Thunderbolt cable, and I have like a USB four cable, I think. Um, but like, these are cables that like. I don’t, I mean, I, I have one that I, I kind of travel with, but I don’t, um, either keeping it as little cable matters, uh, uh, plastic, um. Like, so they come in like these, these case, uh, not these cases. Uh, they come in like these, uh, almost like Ziploc bag type of things. Um, which is a great way to ship cables honestly, you know, rather than using a box and, and like I, and I might toss one of those in a suitcase or a backpack, um, rather than having like the cable just out there loose. But I do that primarily because again, like they’re stiff and they’re not the sorts of things that I necessarily want, like in the bottom of my bag, you know, potentially getting broken and, and, and, and twisted and all of that. Um, they are overpriced for what they are and they are definitely not like, they’re not a high transfer cable, but if you can find ’em on sale, the beats, cables, the, the, the, the, the, the branded Beats cables, I actually like them better [00:20:00] than the apple cables that are the same thing, because they are, they’re longer, uh, by, you know, um, a, a few inches than, um, the, the Apple ones. But they’re still braided and they’re nice. And I was able to get, I dunno, this was a, this was not even Black Friday, but this was. Um, you know, sometime in like early November, I think, um, or maybe it was like late October. It might’ve been a Prime Day thing, I don’t know, but they were like eight or $9 a piece, and so I bought like five or six of them. Um, and they are, you know, uh, uh, PD and like, like, like fast charging peoples, they might not be 240, but I think they’re, they’re, they were like a hundred and you know, like 20 watts or whatever. But, um, you know, not high transfer speeds, but if you’re wanting to just quickly charge something and have it, you know, be a, a decent length and be like flexible. Those I don’t, those I don’t hate. Um, anchor makes pretty good cables. You green seems to be the company that’s sponsoring everyone now for various things. [00:21:00] But, um, I don’t know. I’ve started using MagSafe more and more, uh, like wireless charging when I can for some things, at least for phones, Brett: yeah. I actually have some U green wireless charging solutions that are really good. Christina: Yeah. Yeah. I just got one of their, uh, their 10,000 million pair battery fast charging battery things because now the MagSafe, uh, can be like up to, you know, 30 watts or whatever, or 25 watts or, or, or, or whatever it is. Like it’s, um, a lot more, um, usable than, you know, when it was like 10 or, or, or even 15. You’re like, okay, this, this is actually not going to be like the, the slowest, you know, charging thing known to man. But of course, obviously it’s like you can use it with your phone and with your AirPods, but the rest of the things out there don’t, don’t all support shi too, so, Brett: Right. Christina: yeah. Brett: All right. So, um, I want to talk about TV a little bit. Christina: Yeah. I think before we do that though, we should probably Brett: oh, we should, we [00:22:00] have two sponsors to fit in Jesus. I should get on that. Sponsor Break: Shopify Brett: Um, let’s start with, uh, let’s start with Shopify. This episode is brought to you by Shopify. Have you been dreaming of owning your own business? In addition to having something to sell, you’ll need a website, a payment system, a logo, a way to advertise to new customers, et cetera, et cetera. It can all be overwhelming and confusing, but that’s where today’s sponsor, Shopify comes in. Shopify is the commerce platform behind millions of businesses around the world, and 10% of all e-commerce in the us From household names like Mattel and Gym Shark to brands. Just getting started, get started with your own design studio with hundreds of ready to use templates. Shopify helps you build beautiful online store to match your brand style, accelerate your content creation. Shopify is packed with helpful AI tools that write product descriptions, page headlines, and even enhance your product photography.[00:23:00] Get the word out like you have a marketing team behind you. Easily create email and social media campaigns wherever your customers are scrolling or strolling. And best yet, Shopify is your commerce expert with world-class expertise and everything from managing inventory to international shipping, to processing returns and beyond. If you’re ready to sell, you’re ready for Shopify. Turn your big business idea into with Shopify on your side. Sign up for your $1 per month trial and start selling today@shopify.com slash Overtired. Go to shopify.com/ Overtired. That is shopify.com/ Overtired. Thanks Shopify. Christina: Thank you Shopify. Brett: It’ll be, it’ll be just tight as hell by the time people hear it. But that was rough. I, that, that, that, that read, you just heard I [00:24:00] edited like six places. ’cause I kept, I, I don’t know. I’m tired. I’ve been up since, I’ve been up since two today. Christina: Yeah. Shit, man. That’s, yeah, you again, like you’ve been having like sleep issues. It’s, it’s, Brett: Maybe, maybe I shouldn’t be doing sponsor reads. Christina: No, no, no, no, no. Uh, no. We definitely wanna talk about tv. Do you wanna do, do we wanna do our second, um, uh, uh, ad break Brett: let’s do a block. Let’s make it a Christina: Let’s do it. Block. Alright, fantastic. Sponsor Break: Copilot Money Christina: Alright, well, since we are about to go into 2026, this is a great time to, uh, think about your finances. So are you ready to take control of your finances? Well meet copilot money. This is the personal finance app that makes your money feel clear and calm with a beautiful design. Smart automation copilot money brings all of your spending, saving and investment accounts into one place. It’s available on iOS, Mac, iPad, and now on the web, which is really great, uh, because I know, uh, for me anyway, that’s one of my one kind of things [00:25:00] about some of these like tools like this is that there’s not a web app. I’m really bothered by it. This is, you know, it’s a frustration that like the Apple card, for a long time, you know, you couldn’t really access things on, on the web. Even now it’s still kind of messy, like being able to handle things on the web. But as we enter 2026, it is time for a fresh start. And so with the, uh, mint shutdown and rising financial uncertainty, consumers are seeking clarity and control. And this is where copilot money comes in. So copilot money can help you track your budgets, your savings goals, and your net worth seamlessly. Plus, with the the new, um, web launch, you can enjoy a sudden experience on any device, which is really good. And guess what? For a limited time, you can get 26% off your first year when you sign up through the web app. New Year’s only don’t miss out on the chance to start the new year with confidence. There are features like automatic subscription tracking, so you’ll never miss upcoming charges again. Copilot money’s privacy first approach ensures that your data is secure and their team is dedicated to helping you stress less [00:26:00] about money. So whether you’re a finance pro or just starting out, copilot money is there to help you make better decisions. Visit, try dot copilot money slash Overtired and use the code Overtired to sign up for your one month free trial and embrace financial clarity. That’s try.copilot.money/ Overtired. Use the coupon Overtired. And again, that is 26% off for your first year. So thank you copilot money for, uh, sponsoring this week’s, uh, uh, episode. Oh, one other note about copilot money. They were, um, an apple, uh, design award finalist. So it’s a really well designed app and, um, we love to see, um, apps like this available on, on the web as well as iOS and, and MAC os. Brett: I have started using it very much because of the web version, and it is, it is really good. Christina: yeah, yeah. No, yeah. For, yeah, for me, that is like a, an actual like. Concrete requirement. Exploring Rocket Money and Web Interfaces Christina: Any money Brett: Like I’ve, I’ve [00:27:00] paid, I have about eight months left. I paid for a year of, of Rocket Money or whatever it’s called now. Um, and I’ve always loved that app, but yeah, it does not have a web interface. And once I started trying copilot out, I realized how much I really did want a web interface for that stuff, you know? What else have you seen? Discovering Umami Analytics Brett: Umami the analytics platform. Christina: Yes. Brett: It is so good. And it’s, it’s open source and you can self-host. And it is like, I, I’ve been using Fathom Analytics for a long time and I like Fathom, but Umami is, it has like all of the, uh, advanced stuff you would get with Google Analytics, but with like way more privacy focus and you’re not giving information to Google for one. Um, and the interface is beautiful. I love that. It’s so good. Christina: Yeah. Um, umami is really good. I think, uh, there’s another one, I’m [00:28:00] trying to think of what it was called. There are a number of these various, um, analytics, uh, hosted things, but no, umami is definitely a really good one. Nostalgia for Mint and Fever Christina: And I like, um, it reminds me, um, it was, what was it? It was Mint. It was Mint, Sean Edmond’s Mint. Which Brett: I was just gonna ask you if you remembered that. Christina: yeah, which was, which was one of the, uh, plausible analytics. It’s another one too. Um, which is also like, um, they, they have a hosted version, but you can also self-host. Um, and then that’s also a, a, a, another, uh, good one. But yeah. Um, was like my, my all time favorites, uh, you know, app. I, I, I loved that. Brett: Um, what was his RSS one? Uh, fever? Fever. Christina: was, was the best fever, was the best. The Decline of RSS and Google Reader Christina: And it was funny, like I, I think I’ve talked about this before, I was more insulated and like less upset than some people by the, the Google reader death because I had a, a, I’d been using Fever for so long, and then obviously, you know, stuff being updated and doesn’t really work [00:29:00] super well with like, the latest versions of PHP and things like that. But, you know, a lot of people were really, understandably and, and still more than a decade on, you know, very upset by the death of, um, Google reader. But I think because I, I had paid for and used, you know, my own, um, self-hosted fever installation, and then there were apps that people used for, you know, APIs and whatnot to build, you know, Macs or iOS apps or, or whatever. Like, I, I was obviously upset about Google Reader being shut down, but I was like, okay, you know, I, I can just, you know, move on to something else. And, um, and I’ve used, uh, feeder, um, not, not, not feeder, um, Brett: Reader Christina: is. No, no. Maybe, uh, it’s, uh, not Feed Demon. Um, that was like the OG one. Um, it’ll come to me, um, because I, I, yes. Thank you. Feed Ben. Thank you, thank you. One of the ones that’s still around, uh, from like the, of the, you know, various Google reader alternatives, like many of them. You know, closed up shop.[00:30:00] Brett: Yeah. Christina: if they kind of realized, you know, by Google reader, like this is the, unfortunately a niche market. Um, now that didn’t help the fact that like, you know, when people, when web browsers Safari, I think started at first and then Firefox did, and then, you know, uh, Chrome was, was fairly early too. Like when all the web browsers took away like RSS buttons to make it easy to subscribe to feeds or to auto discover feeds, and you had to like install like a, an extension or whatever to do that. Like, that all helped with the, the demise of RSS in a lot of ways. And of course, people moving everything into closed platforms and, and social networks and stuff that, you Brett: In, in the tech world though. So I have, my blog gets about 20,000 visits a week, but it gets 30,000 RSS downloads, like, uh, like daily, 30,000 readers are, are, are pulling my site. Um, so RSS is far from dead in the tech world. Christina: Right. Well, [00:31:00] well, I think, I think in a certain demographic, right? I think if you were to ask like a new, like college grads, I don’t think that any of them are using RSS at least not actively, right? Like, I mean, you might have a few, but like it’s, it’s just not gonna be like a thing where they’re gonna be, act like they might be using some apps that do similar types of things and might even pull in feed sources maybe. But it, it’s, it’s just not like a, like when, when I was graduating from college or in college, like everybody had, you know, RSS clients and that was just kind of a, a known thing. Brett: Yeah. So speaking of traffic, um, I don’t, did I mention that I got delisted on Bing and Christina: You did, Brett: I am, I’m back Christina: figure that out? You’re back now. Okay. Brett: I’m back now. Switching to Kagi Search Engine Brett: And, um, I have switched to using Kaji, um, as my primary search engine and they replicate all of duck duck go’s bang searches. Christina: Yes. Brett: So I Christina: one of the things I love about them. [00:32:00] Yes. Brett: I was pleased to see there’s a Bang Turp search on Kaji. Um, I actually use Christina: or is it kgi? Because I think I’ve always called it kgi. Yeah, it’s KA, it’s K, it’s KAGI. For anybody who’s who’s, uh, I don’t know how to, how, how, if it’s kgi, kgi, um, uh, you know, Kaji, whatever, Brett: It’ll be in the show notes. What the fuck ever, we’ll just call it KGI. Um, and yeah, so like I was super happy ’cause I used the Bang Turp to search my own site. I just got used to doing that. The Rise of AI-Generated Content Brett: Um, and, but it is like you can, the reason I switched to said web, uh, search engine is um, because you can report sites that are just AI slop and they will verify those reports and remove or flag slop sites in your search results. ’cause I was getting sick, even with DuckDuckGo, like five out [00:33:00] of 10 results were always, I’d get in, I’d get there, I’d get one, maybe two paragraphs into, uh, an article and realize, oh, someone just typed in my search term into chat GPT and then Christina: Oh yeah. Brett: automated it. Christina: Oh, I was gonna say there, there it is. Automated at this point. And, and like, to be clear, like a lot of search results, even before like the rise of like genre of AI were a variant of this, where you would see like people like buying older domain names that expired. Well, yeah, but even before that happened mean that, that obviously when, when, when the Christina Warren and Brett Terpstra and then they, they changed your name. Um, I Brett: know, like Jason Turra or Christina: Or something like that. Yeah, it was, it was, it was, it was weird. Um, I mean, you know, um, does that site, did, did have they given up the ghost on that? I’m curious. Um, yeah. Wow. Okay. They are still, well, no, they haven’t published anything since November 30th. So something has happened where they, uh, are [00:34:00] they, they’re definitely cutting down on, on various things. Um, oh no. Paul Terpstra. Oh my God. Paul Terpstra. You are still, Brett: Yeah. Christina: you were like the one author there that I see on this website. Um, now what was, what was messed up about, about this? Um, although no. Okay. Their homepage, the last one they say is like, OCT is like, uh, November, um, uh, 30th. But if you click on the, the Paul trips to handle, then like you see, um, December 22nd, uh, which is, which is today as we’re recording this, Brett: Wow, I didn’t even realize. Christina: Yeah. So, alright. So that is still, somehow that grift is still going on. But yeah, I mean, even before the rise of those things, you would see, you know, sites that would either buy up dead domains and then like, have like very similar looking content, but slightly different maybe, you know, like, uh, you know, injected with a bunch of, you know. Links or whatever, or you would see people who would, you know, do very clearly SEO written and, and probably, you know, [00:35:00] like, again, pre generative ai, but, you know, assisted slop content. But yeah, now it’s, it’s just, it’s crazy. Like, and it doesn’t help that, like the AI summaries, which can be useful, but, um, and they’re getting better, which is good only because they’re so prominent. Like, I’m not a fan of them. But if you’re not using an alternative search engine, like, you know, you see these AI summaries and like if they’re bad and sometimes they are then. Brett: Often Christina: You know, well, they’re, they’ve gotten better, uh, is the only thing I would say. I, I still wouldn’t rely on them, but I’ve, I’ve noticed a, like, I’ve noticed a, a genuine, like uptick in like, improvements and in like, how awful they are probably in like the last six weeks, which is damning with faint praise. I’m not at all saying it’s good. I am simply saying, it’s like, I’m primarily thinking for like, people who are like, like less tech savvy relatives who are going to just go to, you know, bing.com or, or google.com and then see those sorts of things. Right. Um, and, uh, you know, we’re not gonna be able to convince them to go to a, a, a third [00:36:00] party search engine. Um, although, you know, some people, like, I think my mom was using Duck to Go for a while as like her default on her iPhone, um, which I was, I was like proud of her about, but I was also kind of like, uh, that’s got its own issues. But no, I, I like ka a lot. Um, I, I’ve Brett: Well, and it’s so keyboard driven, like DuckDuckGo has good keyboard shortcuts. KAGY slash Kaji has even better keyboard shortcuts. Like you can navigate and control everything with, uh, like Gmail style, single key keyboard shortcuts, which I really like. Christina: Yeah. Yeah, I like that too. And then they, they, of course, they make like a, a web kit, um, like a browser, um, that, that has, they’ve back ported, um, you know, a lot of chrome extensions too. I personally don’t see the point in that. Um, I, I think that if you’re going to be like that committed to, like, using like the, you know, the web extension format and like using like more popular extensions, you might as well [00:37:00] just use a Chrome fork if you don’t wanna use Chrome, which is fine, but like, you could use a browser like Helium, which, which we talked about last show, which has, um, the, the, the hash bangs kind of integrated in, or you could use, you know, if you wanted to use, um, um, you know, the, the, the, the Brett: o is Orion, is Orion the one you’re talking about that? Yeah. Christina: that, that, yeah, that, that, that, that, that, that’s Katy’s thing. And that was actually originally how I heard about them was because it was like, oh, this is interesting. Um, you know, this is a kind of an interesting, you know, kind of alternative browser. And then it turned out that that was just kind of a, in some ways, kind of a front to promote the, the search engine, which is the real, you know, thing. Um, which is fine, right? I mean, that, that was Google’s model. Um, Brett: Well, and we should mention for anyone who hasn’t tried it, it is a paid service. Um, and you are getting search results with no ads and, and spam, uh, ai, slot protection and all of the benefits you would expect from a paid service. So [00:38:00] I think, like for me, five bucks a month gets me, I think 300 searches, which is. Plenty for me, like, I guess I, I’m still waiting to see, I’ve never counted how many searches I do a month, Christina: Yeah, Brett: you know, like three searches a day, uh, would come out to like 90 searches a month and I have 300 available, so I think I’ll be fine. Christina: yeah, yeah. I mean, yeah, basically being able to get to do 10 a day, which in most cases is fine. What I’ve done is I’m on, like, they have a, a, a family plan, um, and they don’t care. They even, I think in their documentation, or at least they did, they do not care if you are like actually in a family with the people that you are on or not. So if you, you know, find some folks that you wanna kind of sync up with, you can like, you know, be on a family plan together and you can save money, um, on, uh, whatever their, uh, um, their pricing [00:39:00] stuff is. So, um, so me, me and Justin Williams are, uh, in a, uh, Brett: Justin Williams, I haven’t heard that name in forever. Christina: Yeah. Yeah. We went to C Oasis together. We went both nights in Los Angeles, um, in August. Yeah. Um, or September rather. Um, yeah, so, okay, so this is how this works. They have, their starter plan is, is $5 a month, which includes, and they do have an AI assistant too. So it was funny, they had the AI slot protection, but they also have like an AI assistant that you can use and like an AI summarizer and whatnot. Um, that’s $5 a month. And then there’s the professional plan, which is, so that’s for 300 searches a month for the standard AI for starter $5 a month. The professional plan is unlimited searches and standard ai, that’s $10 a month. And then the ultimate is, um. Uh, everything in professional plus you get like premium model access, which, okay, but the family plan, um, is, is the, so you can do one of two things. You have a duo [00:40:00] plan, which is two professional accounts for a couple, which is $14 a month plus sales tax. So it’s, uh, you know, average of $7 per person, which I think is what Justin and I are on. And then there’s a family plan with up to six family members. And again, they don’t care if you are actually in a family or not, and that’s $20 a month. So the real thing to do if you’re wanting to like, you know, save on this is like find five friends, Brett: Yeah. Christina: get on the $20 a month, you know, family plan thing. Spread the, spread the cost, and that way you can get the, you know, professional plan for, for, for less. But to your Brett: All right. Christina: most people, it’s probably $300, 300 searches a month is probably plenty. And if you search a lot like we do, I, I think it is worth paying for. Brett: yeah, yeah. All right. TV Shows: Is TV Just Okay Now? Christina: anyway, but we wanted to talk about tv, so let’s Brett: Well do, we’re, we’re at 50 minutes already, so I think we need to choose whether we do TV or gratitude. What Christina: do you have a [00:41:00] gude, like a good one? Brett: I, I, no, I have a, I have a throwaway one. Christina: Okay. Brett: I, it was one of those, like, I looked at my doc and I was like, oh, I don’t think I’ve talked about that even though I probably have, um, yeah, let’s just talk about tv. So I, I have been noting, and my question in the show notes was, is TV just okay now? Because I’ve been watching, I watched Stranger Things, pluribus Down, cemetery Road, platonic, and all of it was, it was entertaining, but it wasn’t like, must watch tv. None of it was like, none of it was as good as like Modern Family. Modern Family was fucking good. Tv, like family friendly and just like I’ve, I’ve been through that series so many times and it’s always fun and it’s always better than like pluribus. I like the, I like the concept kind of, it’s not. not all that, um, engaging, I guess.[00:42:00] Christina: I like it. But, Brett: Yeah. I don’t hate it like I do, I do like it, but it’s not like, I don’t, I don’t count the days until the next episode comes out and I miss, I miss things being really good. So you had a couple responses to that though. Christina: Well, I mean, I tend to agree with you. So first of all, there, I put in the, in the show notes, um, there’s a link to a thing that, uh, that James and Pozak wrote for the, the New York Times, uh, God a year and a half ago now called, um, the Comfortable Problem of Mid tv. And he said it, it, it’s got a great cast, it looks cinematic, it’s, um, fine and is everywhere. And kind of talking about like, you know, we went from like the era of like peak TV to now being, um. You know what, what he’s dubbed like mid tv and I think that there’s, there’s some truth to that. Um, and, and, and he even says at the beginning, let me say up front, this is not an essay about how bad TV is today, just the opposite. There’s, um, little truly bad high profile television made anymore, um, is it’s more talking about, um, like [00:43:00] what we have instead Today is something less awful, but in a way more sad, the willingness to retreat, to settle to trade, the ambitious for the defendable. And I think that there’s some truth to that. Um, I think that we see this movies now too, and with movies it’s actually much more of a problem. Like there’s some really high highs. Um, but because the movie industry is in such a bad place, um, it, it’s that much more notable when like, you don’t have like a big strong slate of, of things. And so, you know, it, it, it’s more of a problem. TV for, for better or worse, has become the dominant entertainment form. And yeah, I think that it, it, it’s fine. Uh, but there are very few things that I’m like, oh, wow, yeah, that, that’s like, you know, the wire. Um, not that anything is, but you know what I mean? But is, but even like, you know, pluribus, which I really like. I actually think that’s, um, my, my favorite show of, of, um, 2025, um, at least new show. Um, well, maybe the studio. The studio. I might have, I, I, I might put, Brett: That was pretty Christina: above that. But, but, but, but [00:44:00] like, it’s one of those things where I’m like, okay, you know, um, it’s not breaking bad, right? Like, if we’re gonna be comparing Vince Gilligan shows, and maybe that’s unfair, but, you know, it just, but, but still, like, you know, you’re gonna be compared to your last hit. And, and, and, and that is what it is. Um, I will say though, like, I haven’t watched Stranger Things in years, and I don’t, I don’t, I don’t think I can force myself to like, care about that again, but I’ve heard kind of mixed Brett: That’s where L is too, L doesn’t care. And, and then there’s the whole like two cast members being Zionists kind of turned a whole bunch of people off and Christina: Well, and well, David Harbor, David Harbor’s whole Lily Allen thing. Are you, are you, are you familiar with this floor at all? Brett: No. Christina: Okay. You know who Lily Allen is? Brett: Yes. Christina: Okay. So she and David Harbor were married and, um, she wrote an album called, uh, uh, west End Girl that, that came out, uh, like in November, which is actually a really good album, [00:45:00] which is like White Girl Lemonade, where she just basically reads him to filth for being an absolute piece of shit. Like, apparently like, you know, they were together, they were married or whatever. She goes off to London to perform in a play and he’s like. Oh, we’re gonna be away for months. I, I wanna sleep with other people. And so they kind of like, she kind of accepts getting into an open relationship with him, even though she didn’t really want to be, which look that her, that’s her bad, whatever. But then he proceeds to like, do things that was not what they’d agreed upon on, upon the parameters of their, of their relationship. And then she’s just like brutally honest about the entire thing. And so as you’re listening to this album, you’re just learning more and more about like, David Harbor’s like sex life and, um, and stuff. And, and like, it’s just on blast. It’s incredible. Um, but, uh, yeah, so there’s, there’s some of that stuff. There’s, I, I don’t know, like I don’t, I don’t really follow the rest of the cast stuff except that, uh, the girl who plays, um, 11 like. Frequently want to smack because just the most annoying [00:46:00] celebrity in on the planet. But like, putting that aside, um, I just, I stopped caring. It took them too long between seasons and the, and, and, and the budget for that show was also so insane. I’m like, you, you cost more than strain than thinking of Thrones. Game of Thrones is, was even at its worst, was a better show than Stranger Things. So like it, yeah. But but that goes to your point. Like, it’s like, it’s okay. Brett: Yeah. Yeah, Christina: Um, I will say the new season of Fallout just, um, premiered and so far I I’m still really enjoying that. Um, Brett: yet to see it. Christina: you should, you should definitely watch the Brett: What is it on? Christina: uh, Amazon Brett: Okay. Christina: and, uh, and it’s, and it’s really, really good. Um. And this year they are doing the episodic, um, not episodic, the weekly drop, right. Rather than the binge thing. So the first season, uh, they dropped it all at once and um, and I was a little bit worried. I was like, fuck, does that mean they don’t [00:47:00] believe in this? What are they going to do? Wound up being like Amazon’s biggest hit after their Lord of the Rings, um, you know, thing. And so it was immediately kind of picked up for a second season and it was picked up for a third season before the second season even, uh, premiered. Um, and uh, and that might be the final one. Um, they’re saying, but, but, but, but who knows? But, but so far anyway, like they’ve only, there’s only been one episode, but it’s, it’s been good so far. The Cultural Phenomenon of Heated Rivalry Christina: Um, but, but what I was gonna talk to you about is the gay hockey show. Brett: Which is. Christina: It’s called Heated rivalry. It’s on HBO Max. It was originally just supposed to be on, uh, a Canadian streamer called Crave. And um, then at the, like, the, the like 11th hour, HBO Max picked it up and was like, okay, we’ll play this in, um, some of our territories and other things. And I wanna be very clear, this is not high art at all. This is like, no way. Like this actually in some ways it, it personifies [00:48:00] the TV is just okay now thing, but in other ways it’s actually a little bit more interesting just because the cultural phenomenon that has happened around it in like the last, like, like it hasn’t even been out a month and it’s only six episodes, although they are also going to be getting a second season. Um, it’s sort of wild how, like I went from, I’d seen a trailer for it and I was like, okay, whatever. And like it came out, I think like right after Thanksgiving. Then like within like two or three weeks, like literally I wasn’t following anything around it, but my Instagram, my TikTok, Twitter, everything that I was seeing was just all about the discourse around the show. And it’s like a bunch of us all seem to have to have discovered it. Like one weekend where we were like, okay, we’re gonna actually sit down and watch the gay hockey show. Um, and this is exactly what it is. It is a gay hockey show. So it is based on, there was a series of books that this, uh, female, uh, writer Rachel Reed wrote, um, uh, about like, uh, I think like they were like eBooks, types of thing. Um, uh, I think although there, there is now I [00:49:00] think like a, a hard cover release because they’ve been so popular and they’re just, it’s just ero, it’s just smut, right? It’s basically fanfic dressed up in something else. And the idea was like, okay, you have like these, you know, male like hockey players who are closeted and kind of have like this, this romance that, that starts from like 2008, um, through like, I dunno, like, like 2017 or 2018. And there are a number of different. Books or stories in the universe. But the one that people liked the most was the, the second book, which is called Heed Rivalry. You don’t really need to know any about that. The big thing about the show is that it is essentially like soft core gay porn. Um, but yet it’s like weirdly compelling in a way. Like, it, it is very, like, there’s, there’s some sweet aspects to it. Like you were before the, the show, you were saying, oh, it’s kinda like Heart Stopper could not be further from Heart Stopper. ’cause Heart Stopper is very sweet and twee and kind of like loving and like whatnot. This is like. You know, like guys in their twenties with amazing asses, [00:50:00] you know, like doing things to one another kind of an in secret. And, and the, the thing is, there’s not a whole lot of plot. Like the plot is the porn. Because, because the whole thing is, is that like they don’t spend, they don’t have a time to spend a lot of time together because they’re, they’re closeted and their rivals. Oh, that’s the whole conceit. It’s like they’re these two great hockey players and they, they, they, um, you know, um, play for opposing teams and they’re like, each other’s biggest rivals, but like, they’re, they’re fucking, um, and uh, it, it’s, uh, again, it’s not high art at all, but Brett: the target audience for this? Christina: And here’s the interesting thing. So the books are almost entirely read by women, um, and which, which makes sense. There’s, there’s a lot of like, you know, like, male, male, like, um, like the history of slash fiction goes back to like, like Fanfic in general, like goes back to like women writing, like Spock and, and, uh, um, what’s the space together? Kirk Together. Yeah. Um, and so the books are almost entirely, uh, consumed by, by women and probably straight women, although probably some queer women too. Um, but the [00:51:00] show seems to be a mix of gay men, straight women, all, although I’ve seen a lot of lesbians. As well. Um, yeah, yeah, because again, like the discourse is just kind of ridiculous and, and the memes are fun. Um, the guy who created it, he’s gay or created the, the, the television adaptation. He’s gay and, uh, I think he’s done a, a, a pretty good job with it. The, the leads are the thing that’s like incredible, like the, especially the guy who plays the, the Russian character, Ilya, uh, that actor is really, really good and he’s Texan, and yet he does like a great Russian accent and, um. And, and he’s very attractive. And like I, I, I can see like why a lot of people are into it, but it’s funny ’cause like New York Magazine, like they weren’t even covering the show, which, why would you, it was like some Canadian kind of, you know, you know, thing that barely gets picked by HBO. Then it takes off and now like they’re covering it. The, the last time I remember New York Magazine covering a show like this, like Vociferously was Gossip Girl, like 18 years ago. Um, [00:52:00] and it kind of reminds me of that, where like everybody woke up one day when they’re like, oh, this is like a cultural moment now. So again, not good television, probably not gonna necessarily be for everyone, but, but it’s a moment. And like, I kept seeing edits, I kept seeing Mo, I kept seeing edits on TikTok and stuff and I was like, okay, do I have to watch the gay hockey show? All right, I have to watch the gay hockey show so that it’s, we might be at the point where like TV is just okay, but at least there are some good like moments about, whereas the culture, we can all like agree. Okay, we’re all gonna be talking about this one thing. Brett: That sounds like what I’ll be doing on Christmas Day. Christina: Oh my God. Actually that would be a great thing to watch on Christmas. And I think that the final episode is gonna come out like the day after Christmas, so there you go. Brett: Done Deal. Cool. Wrapping Up and Holiday Wishes Brett: All right, well thanks for, we’re recording this the same morning. The show’s supposed to come out, so I gotta do some editing, but uh, but [00:53:00] thanks for showing up while you’re in Atlanta and yeah, this has been a classic, a fun classic Overtired. Christina: absolutely. Well, um, get some sleep, uh, take care of yourself. Um, happy holidays. Um, uh, hope that a, a Christmas isn’t too weird for you. And, um, and happy New Year. Brett: you too. Get some sleep.

The Overtired trio reunites for the first time in ages, diving into a whirlwind of health updates, hilarious anecdotes, and the latest tech obsessions. Christina shares a dramatic spinal saga while Brett and Jeff discuss everything from winning reddit contests to creating a universal markdown processor. Tune in for updates on Mark 3, the magical world of Scrivener, and why Brett’s back on Bing. Don’t miss the banter or the tech tips, and as always, get ready to laugh, learn, and maybe feel a little overtired yourself. Sponsor Shopify is the commerce platform behind 10% of all eCommerce in the US, from household names like Mattel and Gymshark, to brands just getting started. Get started today at shopify.com/overtired. Chapters 00:00 Welcome to the Overtired Podcast 01:09 Christina’s Health Journey 10:53 Brett’s Insurance Woes 15:38 Jeff’s Mental Health Update 24:07 Sponsor Spot: Shopify 24:18 Sponsor: Shopify 26:23 Jeff Tweedy 27:43 Jeff’s Concert Marathon 32:16 Christina Wins Big 36:58 Monitor Setup Challenges 37:13 Ergotron Mounts and Tall Poles 38:33 Review Plans and Honest Assessments 38:59 Current Display Setup 41:30 Thunderbolt KVM and Display Preferences 42:51 MacBook Pro and Studio Comparisons 50:58 Markdown Processor: Apex 01:07:58 Scrivener and Writing Tools 01:11:55 Helium Browser and Privacy Features 01:13:56 Bing Delisting Incident Show Links Danny Brown's 10 in the New York Times (gift link) Indigo Stack Scrivener Helium Bangs Apex Apex Syntax Join the Marked 3 Beta LG 32 Inch UltraFine™evo 6K Nano IPS Black Monitor with Thunderbolt™ 5 Join the Conversation Merch Come chat on Discord! Twitter/ovrtrd Instagram/ovrtrd Youtube Get the Newsletter Thanks! You’re downloading today’s show from CacheFly’s network BackBeat Media Podcast Network Check out more episodes at overtiredpod.com and subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your favorite podcast app. Find Brett as @ttscoff, Christina as @film_girl, Jeff as @jsguntzel, and follow Overtired at @ovrtrd on Twitter. Transcript Brett + 2 Welcome to the Overtired Podcast Jeff: [00:00:00] Hello everybody. This is the Overtired podcast. The three of us are all together for the first time since the Carter administration. Um, it is great to see you both here. I am Jeff Severance Gunzel if I didn’t say that already. Um, and I’m here with Christina Warren and I’m here with Brett Terpstra and hello to both of you. Brett: Hi. Jeff: Great to see you both. Brett: Yeah, it’s good to see you too. I feel like I was really deadpan in the pre-show. I’ll try to liven it up for you. I was a horrible audience. You were cracking jokes and I was just Jeff: that’s true. Christina, before you came on, man, I was hot. I was on fire and Brett was, all Brett was doing was chewing and dropping Popsicle parts. Brett: Yep. I ate, I ate part of a coconut outshine Popsicle off of a concrete floor, but Jeff: It is true, and I didn’t even see him check it [00:01:00] for cat hair, Brett: I did though. Jeff: but I believe he did because he’s a, he’s a very Brett: I just vacuumed in Jeff: He’s a very good American Brett: All right. Christina’s Health Journey Brett: Well, um, I, Christina has a lot of health stuff to share and I wanna save time for that. So let’s kick off the mental health corner. Um, let’s let Christina go first, because if it takes the whole show, it takes the whole show. Go for it. Christina: Uh, I, I will not take this hold show, but thank you. Yeah. So, um, my mental health is okay-ish. Um, I would say the okay-ish part is, is because of things that are happening with my physical health and then some of the medications that I’ve had to be on, um, uh, to deal with it. Uh, prednisone. Fucking sucks, man. Never nev n never take it if you can avoid it. Um, but why Christina, why are you on prednisone or why were you on prednisone for five days? Um, uh, and I’m not anymore to be clear, but that certainly did not help my mental health. Um, at the beginning of November, I woke up and I thought that I’d [00:02:00] slept on my shoulder wrong. And, um, uh, and, and just some, some background. I, I don’t know if this is pertinent to how my injury took place or not, but, but it, I’m sure that it didn’t help. Um, I have scoliosis and in the top and the bottom of my spine, so I have it at the top of my, like, neck area and my lower back. And so my back is like a crooked s um, this will be relevant in a, in a second, but, but I, I thought that I had slept on my back bunny, and I was like, okay, well, all right, it hurts a lot, but fine. Um, and then it, a, a couple of days passed and it didn’t get any better, and then like a week passed and I was at the point where I was like, I almost feel like I need to go to the. Emergency room, I’m in pain. That is that significant. Um, and, you know, didn’t get any better. So I took some of grant’s, Gabapentin, and I took, um, some, some, uh, a few other things and I was able to get in with like a, a, a sports and spine guy. Um, and um, [00:03:00] he looked at me and he was like, yeah, I think that you have like a, a, a bolting disc, also known as a herniated disc. Go to physical therapy. See me later. We’ll, we’ll deal with it. Um. Basically like my whole left side was, was, was really sore and, and I had a lot of pain and then I had numbness in my, my fingers and um, and, and that was a problem the next day, which was actually my birthday. The numbness had at this point spread to my right side and also my lower extremities. And so at this point I called the doctor and he was like, yeah, you should go to the er. And so I went to the ER and, and they weren’t able to do anything for me other than give me, you know, like, um, you know, I was hoping they might give me like, some sort of steroid injection or something. They wouldn’t do anything other than, um, basically, um, they gave me like another type of maybe, maybe pain pill or whatever. Um, but that allowed the doctor to go ahead and. Write, uh, write up an MRI took forever for me to get an MRI, I actually had to get it in Atlanta. [00:04:00] Fun fact, uh, sometimes it is cheaper to just pay and not go through insurance and get an MR MRI and, um, a, um, uh, an x-ray, um, I was able to do it for $450 Jeff: Whoa. Really? Christina: Yeah, $400 for the MR mri. $50 for the x-ray. Jeff: Wow. Christina: Yeah. Yeah. Brett: how I, they, I had an MRI, they charged me like $1,200 and then they failed to bill insurance ’cause I was between insurance. Christina: Yes. Yeah. So what happened was, and and honestly that was gonna be the situation that I was in, not between insurance stuff, but they weren’t even gonna bill insurance. And insurance only approved certain facilities and to get into those facilities is almost impossible. Um, and so, no, there are a lot of like get an MR, I now get a, you know, mammogram, get ghetto, whatever places. And because America’s healthcare system is a HealthScape, you can bypass insurance and they will charge you way less than whatever they bill insurance for. So I, I don’t know if it’s part of the country, you know, like Seattle I think might [00:05:00] probably would’ve been more expensive. But yeah, I was able to find this place like a mile from like, not even a mile from where my parents lived, um, that did the x-rays and the MRI for $450 total. Brett: I, I hate, I hate that. That’s true, but Christina: Me too. Me too. No, no. It pisses me off. Honestly, it makes me angry because like, I’m glad that I was able to do that and get it, you know, uh, uh, expedited. Then I go into the spine, um, guy earlier this week and he looks at it and he’s like, yep, you’ve got a massive bulging disc on, on C seven, which is the, the part of your lower cervical or cervical spine, which is your neck. Um, and it’s where it connects to your ver bray. It’s like, you know, there are a few things you can do. You can do, you know, injections, you can do surgery. He is like, I’m gonna recommend you to a neurosurgeon. And I go to the neurosurgeon yesterday and he was showing me or not, uh, yeah, yesterday he was showing me the, the, the, the scans and, and showing like you up close and it’s, yeah, it’s pretty massive. Like where, where, where the disc is like it is. You could see it just from one view, like, just from like [00:06:00] looking at it like, kind of like outside, like you could actually like see like it was visible, but then when you zoomed in it’s like, oh shit, this, this thing is like massive and it’s pressing on these nerves that then go into my, my hands and other areas. But it’s pressing on both sides. It’s primarily on my left side, but it’s pressing on on my right side too, which is not good. So, um, he basically was like, okay. He was like, you know, this could go away. He was like, the pain isn’t really what I’m wanting to, to treat here. It’s, it’s the, the weakness because my, my left arm is incredibly weak. Like when they do like the, the test where like they, they push back on you to see like, okay, like how, how much can you, what, like, I am, I’m almost immediately like, I can’t hold anything back. Right? Like I’m, I’m, I’m like a toddler in terms of my strength. So, and, and then I’m freaked out because I don’t have a lot of feeling in my hands and, and that’s terrifying. Um, I’m also. Jeff: so terrifying, Christina: I’m, I’m also like in extreme pain because of, of, of where this sits. Like I can’t sleep well. Like [00:07:00] the whole thing sucks. Like the MRI, which was was like the most painful, like 25 minutes, like of my existence. ’cause I was laying flat on my back. I’m not allowed to move and I’m just like, I’m in just incredible pain with that part of, of, of, of my, my side. Like, it, it was. It was terrible. Um, but, uh, but he was like, yeah. Um, these are the sorts of surgical options we have. Um, he’s gonna, um, do basically what what he wants to do is basically do a thing where he would put in a, um, an artificial or, or synthetic disc. So they’re gonna remove the disc, put in a synthetic one. They’ll go in through the, the front of my throat to access the, my, my, my, my spine. Um, put that there and, um, you know, I’ll, I’ll be overnight in the hospital. Um, and then it’ll be a few weeks of recovery and the, the, the pain should go away immediately. Um, but it, it could be up to two years before I get full, you know, feeling back in my arm. So anyway, Jeff: years, Jesus. And Christina: I mean, and hopefully less than that, but, but it could be [00:08:00] up to that. Jeff: there’s no part of this at this point. That’s a mystery to you, right? Christina: The mystery is, I don’t know how this happened. Jeff: You don’t know how it happened, right? Of course. Yeah, of course. Yeah. Yeah. Brett: So tell, tell us about the ghastly surgery. The, the throat thing really threw me like, I can’t imagine that Christina: yeah, yeah. So, well, ’cause the thing is, is that usually if what they just do, like spinal fusion, they’ll go in at the back of your neck, um, and then they’ll remove the, the, um, the, the, the, the disc. And then they’ll fuse your, your, your two bones together. Basically. They’ll, they’ll, they’ll, they’ll fuse this part of the vertebrae, but because they’re going to be replacing the, the disc, they need more room. So that’s why they have to go in through the, through, through basically your throat so that they can have more room to work. Jeff: Good lord. No thank you. Brett: Ugh. Wow. Jeff: Okay. Brett: I am really sorry that is happening. That is, that is, that dwarfs my health concerns. That is just constant pain [00:09:00] and, and it would be really scary. Christina: Yeah. Yeah. It’s not great. It’s not great, but I’m, I’m, I’m doing what I can and, uh, like I have, you know, a small amount of, of Oxycodine and I have like a, a, a, you know, some other pain medication and I’m taking the gabapentin and like, that’s helpful. The bad part is like your body, like every 12, 15 hours, like whatever, like the, the, the cycle is like, you feel it leave your system and like if you’re asleep, you wake up, right? Like, it’s one of those things, like, you immediately feel it, like when it leaves your system. And I’ve never had to do anything for pain management before. And they have me on a very, they have me like on the smallest amount of like, oxycodone you can be on. Um, and I’m using it sparingly because I don’t wanna, you know, be reliant on, on it or whatever. But it, it, but it is one of those things where I’m like, yeah, like sometimes you need fucking opiates because, you know, the pain is like so constant. And the thing is like, what sucks is that it’s not always the same type of pain. Like sometimes it’s throbbing, sometimes it’s sharp, sometimes it’s like whatever. It sucks. But the hardest thing [00:10:00] is like, and. This does impact my mental health. Like it’s hard to sleep. Like, and I’m a side sleeper. I’m a side sleeper, and I’m gonna have to become a back sleeper. So, you know. Yeah. It’s just, it’s, it’s not great. It’s not great, but, you know, that, that, that, that, that’s me. The, the good news is, and I’m very, very gratified, like I have a good surgeon. Um, I’m gonna be able to get in to get this done relatively quickly. He had an appointment for next week. I don’t think that insurance would’ve even been able to approve things fast enough for, for, for that regard. And I have, um, commitments that I can’t make then. And I, and that would also mean that I wouldn’t be able to go visit my family for Christmas. So hopefully I’ll do it right after Christmas. I’m just gonna wait, you know, for, for insurance to, to do its thing, knock on wood, and then schedule, um, from there. But yeah, Jeff: Woof. Christina: so that’s me. Um, uh, who wants to go next? Jeff or, uh, Jeff or Brett? Jeff: It’s like, that’s me. Hot potato throwing it. Brett: I’ll, I’ll go. Brett’s Insurance Woes Brett: I can continue on the insurance topic. Um, I was, for a few months [00:11:00] after getting laid off, I was on Minsu, which is Minnesota’s Medicaid, um, v version of Medicaid. And so basically I paid nothing and I had better insurance than I usually have with, uh, you know, a full deductible and premiums and everything. And it was fantastic. I was getting all the care I needed for all of the health stuff I’m going through. Um, I, they, a, a new doctor I found, ordered the 15 tests and I passed out ’cause it was so much blood and. And it, I was getting, but I was getting all these tests run. I was getting results, we were discovering things. And then my unemployment checks, the income from unemployment went like $300 over the cap for Medicaid. So [00:12:00] all of a sudden, overnight I was cut from Medicaid and I had to do an early sign up, and now I’m on courts and it sucks bad. Like they’re not covering my meds. Last month cost me $600. I was also paying. In addition to that, a $300 premium plus every doctor’s visit is 50 bucks out of pocket. So this will hopefully only last until January, and then it’ll flip over and I will be able to demonstrate basically no income, um, until like Mark makes enough money that it gets reported. Um, and even, uh, until then, like I literally am making under the, the poverty limit. So, um, I hope to be back on Medicaid shortly. I have one more month. I’ll have to pay my $600 to refill. I [00:13:00] cashed out my 401k. Um, like things were, everything was up high enough that I had made, I. I had made tens of thousands of dollars just on the investments and the 401k, but I also have a lot of concerns about the market volatility around Nvidia and the AI bubble in general. Um, so taking my money out of the market just felt okay to me. I paid the 10%, uh, penalty Jeff: Mm-hmm. Brett: and ultimately I, I came out with enough cash that I can invest on my own and be able to cover the next six months. Uh, if I don’t have any other income, which I hope to, I hope to not spend my nest egg. Um, but I did, I did a lot of thinking and calculating and I think I made the right choices. But anyway, [00:14:00] that will help if I have to pay for medical stuff that will help. Um. And then I’ve had insomnia, bad on and off. Right now I’m coming off of two days of good sleep. You’re catching me on a good day. Um, but Jeff: Still wouldn’t laugh at my jokes. Brett: before that it was, well, that’s the thing is like before that, it was four nights where I slept two to four hours per night, and by the end of it, I could barely walk. And so two nights of sleep after a stint like that, like, I’m just super, I’m deadpan, I’m dazed. Um, I could lay down and fall asleep at any time. Um, I, so, so keep me awake. Um, but yeah, that’s, that’s, that’s me. Mental health is good. Like I’m in pretty high spirits considering all this, like financial stuff and everything. Like my mood has been pretty stable. I’ve been getting a lot of coding done. I’ll tell you about projects in [00:15:00] a minute, but, um, but that’s, that’s me. I’m done. Jeff: Awesome. I’m enjoying watching your cat roll around, but clearly cannot decide to lay down at this point. Brett: No, nobody is very persnickety. Jeff: I literally have to put my. Well, you say put a cat down like you used to. When you put a kid down for a nap, you say you wanna put ’em down. Right? That’s where it’s coming from. I now have a chair next to my desk, ’cause I have one cat that walks around Yowling at about 11:00 AM while I’m working. And I have to like, put ’em down for a nap. It’s pathetic. It’s pathetic that I do that. Let’s just be clear. Brett: Yeah. Jeff: soulmate though. Jeff’s Mental Health Update Jeff: Um, I’m doing good. I’m, I’m, I’ve been feeling kind of light lately in a nice way. I’ve had ups and downs, but even with the ups and downs, there’s like a, except for one day last week was, there’s just been feeling kind of good in general, which is remarkable in a way. ’cause it’s just like stressful time. There’s some stressful business stuff, like, [00:16:00] a lot of stuff like that. But I’m feeling good and, and just like, uh, yeah, just light. I don’t know, it’s weird. Like, I’ve just been noticing that I feel kind of light and, uh. And not, not manic, not high light. Brett: Yeah. No, that’s Jeff: uh, and that’s, that’s lovely. So yeah. And so I’m doing good. I’m doing good. I fucking, it’s cold. Which sucks ’cause it just means for everybody that’s heard about my workshop over the years, that I can’t really go out there and have it be pleasant Brett: It’s, it’s been Minnesota thus far. Has had, we’ve had like one, one Sub-Zero day. Jeff: whatever. It’s fucking cold. Christina: Yeah. What one? Brett? Brett. It’s December 6th as we’re recording this one Sub-Zero day. That’s insane. Brett: Is it Jeff: Granted, granted I’ve been dressing warm, so I’m ready to go out the door for ice related things. Meaning, meaning government, ice, Brett: Uh, yeah. Yeah. Jeff: So I like wear my long underwear during [00:17:00] the day. ’cause actually like recently. So at my son’s school, which is like six blocks from here, um, has a lot of Somali immigrants in it. And, and uh, and there was a, at one point there was ice activity in the other direction, um, uh, uh, near me. And so neighbors put out a call here around so that at dismissal time people would pair up at all the intersections surrounding the school. And, um, and like a quick signal group popped up, whatever. It was so amazing because like we all just popped out there. And by the time I got out, uh, everyone was already like, posted up and I was like, I’m a, in these situations, I am a wanderer. You want me roaming? I don’t want to pair up with somebody I don’t like, I just, I grabbed a camera with a Zoom on it and like, I was like, I’m in roam. Um, it’s what I was as an activist, what I was as a reporter, like it’s just my nature. Um, but like. Everybody was out and like, and they were just like, they were ready man. And then we got like the all clear and you could just see people in the [00:18:00] neighborhood just like standing down and going home. But because of the true threat and the ongoing arrests here, now that the Minneapolis stuff has started, like I do, I was like wearing long underwear just, and I have a little bag by the door ready to like pop out if something comes up and I can be helpful. Um, and uh, and I guess what I’m saying is I should use that to go into the garage as well if I’m already prepared. Brett: Right. Jeff: But here’s, okay, so here’s a mental health thing actually. So I, one of the, I’ve gone through a few years of just sort of a little bit of paralysis around being able to just, I don’t know what, like do anything that is kind of project related that takes some thinking, whatever it is, like I’m talking about around the house or things that have kind of broken over the years, whatever. So I’ve had this snowblower and it’s a really good snowblower. It’s got headlights. And, uh, and I used to love snow blowing the entire block. Like it just made me feel good, made me feel useful. Um, and sorry I cough. I left it outside for a [00:19:00] year for a, like a winter and a spring and water got into the gas tank. It rusted out in there. I knew I couldn’t start it or I’d ruin the whole damn engine. So I left it for two years and I felt bad about myself. But this year, just like probably a month before the first big snowfall, I fucking replaced a gas tank and a carburetor on a machine. And I have never done anything like that in my life. And so then we got the snowfall and I, and I snow blowed this whole block Brett: Nice. Jeff: great. ’cause now they all owe me. Brett: I, uh, I have a, uh, so I have a little electric powered, uh, snowblower that can handle like two inches of snow. Um, and, and on big snowfalls, if you get out there every hour and keep up with it, it, it works. But, but I, my back right now, I can’t stand for, I can’t stand still for 10 minutes and I can’t move for more than like five minutes. And so I’m, I’m very disabled and El has good days and bad days, uh, thus [00:20:00] far. L’s been out there with a shovel, um, really being the hero. But we have a next door neighbor with a big gas powered snowblower. And so we went over, brought them gifts, and, um, asked if they would take care of our driveway on days we couldn’t, uh, for like, you know, we’d pay ’em 25 bucks to do the driveway. And, uh, and they were, he was still reluctant to accept money. Um. But, but we both agreed it was better to like make it a, a transaction. Jeff: Oh my God. You don’t want to get into weird Minnesota neighbor relational. Brett: right. You don’t want the you owe me thing. Um, so, so we have that set up. But in the process we made really good friends with our neighbor. Like we sat down in their living room for I think 45 minutes and just like talked about health and politics and it was, it was really fun. They’re, they’re retired. They’re in their [00:21:00] seventies and like act, he always looks super grumpy. I always thought he was a mean old man. He’s actually, he laughs more easily than most people I’ve ever met. Um, he’s actually, when people say, oh, he is actually a teddy bear, this guy really is, he’s just jovial. Uh, he just has resting angry old man face. Jeff: Or like my, I have public mis throat face, like when I’m out and about, especially when I’m shopping, I know that my face is, I’m gonna fucking kill you if you look me in the eye Brett: I used Jeff: is not my general disposition. Brett: people used to tell me that about myself, but I feel like I, I carry myself differently these days than I did when I was younger. Jeff: You know what I learned? Do you, have you both watched Veep, Christina: Yes, Jeff: you know, Richard sp split, right? Um, and, and he always kind of has this sweet like half smile and he is kind of looking up and I, I figured out at one point I was in an airport, which is where my kill everybody face especially comes up. Just to be clear. TSA, it’s just a feeling inside. I [00:22:00] have no desire to act to this out. I realized that if I make the Richard Plet face, which I can try to make for you now, which is something like if I just make the Richard Plet face, my whole disposition Brett: yeah. Yeah. Jeff: uh, and I even feel a little better. And so I just wanna recommend that to people. Look up Richard Spt, look at his face. Christina: Hey, future President Bridges split. Jeff: future President Richard Splat, also excellent in the Detroiters. Um, that’s all, uh, that’s all I wanted to say about that. Brett: I have found that like when I’m texting with someone, if I start to get frustrated, you know, you know that point where you’re still adding smiley emoticons even though you’re actually not, you’re actually getting pissed off, but you don’t wanna sound super bitchy about it, so you’re adding smile. I have found that when I add a smiley emoji in those circumstances, if I actually smile before I send it, it like my [00:23:00] mood will adjust to match, to match the tone I’m trying to convey, and it lessens my frustration with the other person. Jeff: a little joy wrist rocket. Christina: Yeah. Hey, I mean, no, but hey, but, but that, that, that, that, that’s interesting. I mean, they’re, they, they’ve done studies that like show that, right? That like show like, you know, I mean, like, some of this is all like bullshit to a certain extent, but there is something to be said for like, you know, like the power of like positive thinking and like, you know, if you go into things with like, different types of attitudes or even like, even if you like, go into job interviews or other situations, like you act confident or you smile, or you act happy or whatever. Even if you’re not like it, the, the, the, the euphoria, you know, that those sorts of uh, um, endorphin reactions or whatever can be real. So that’s interesting. Brett: Yeah, I found, I found going into job interviews with my usual sarcastic and bitter, um, kind of mindset, Jeff: I already hate this job. Brett: it doesn’t play well. It doesn’t play well. So what are your weaknesses? Fuck off. Um,[00:24:00] Christina: right. Well, well, well, I hate people. Jeff: Yeah. Dealing with motherfuckers like you, that’s one weakness. Sponsor Spot: Shopify Brett: let’s, uh, let’s do a sponsor spot and then I want to hear about Christina winning a contest. Christina: yes. Jeff: very Brett: wanna, you wanna take it away? Sponsor: Shopify Jeff: I will, um, our sponsor this week is Shopify. Um, have you ever, have you just been dreaming of owning your own business? Is that why you can’t sleep? In addition to having something to sell, you need a website. And I’ll tell you what, that’s been true for a long time. You need a payment system, you need a logo, you need a way to advertise new customers. It can all be overwhelming and confusing, but that is where today’s sponsor, Shopify comes in. shopify is the commerce platform behind millions of businesses around the world and 10% of all e-commerce in the US from household names like Mattel and Gym Shark to brands just getting started. Get started with your own design studio with hundreds of ready to use [00:25:00] templates. 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That was Jeff: Yeah. Cha-ching Brett: they got the chorus, they got the Overtired Christina: You did. You got the Overtired Jeff: They didn’t think to ask for it, but that’s our brand. Christina: shopify.com/ Overtired. Jeff Tweedy Jeff: What was, uh, I was watching a Stephen Colbert interview with Jeff Tweedy, who just put out a triple album and, uh, it was a very thoughtful, sweet interview. And then Stephen Colbert said, you know, you’re not supposed to do this. And Jeff Tweety said, it’s all part of my career long effort to leave the public wanting less. Christina: Ha, Jeff: That was a great bit. Christina: that’s a fantastic bit. A side note, there are a couple of really good NPR, um, uh, tiny desks that have come out in the last couple of month, uh, couple of weeks. Um, uh, one is shockingly, I, I’ll, I’ll just be a a, a fucking boomer about it. The Googo dolls. Theirs was [00:27:00] great. It’s fantastic. They did a great job. It already has like millions of views, like it wrecked up like over a million views, I think like in like, like less than 24 hours. They did a great job, but, uh, but Brandy Carlisle, uh, did one, um, the other day and hers is really, really good too. So, um, so yeah. Yeah, exactly. So yeah. Anyway, you said, you saying Jeff pd maybe, I don’t know how I got from Wilco to like, you know, there, Jeff: Yeah. Well, they’ve done some good, he’s done his own good Christina: he has, he has done his own. Good, good. That’s honestly, that’s probably what I was thinking of, but Jeff: It’s my favorite Jeff besides me because Bezos, he’s not in the, he’s not in the game. Christina: No. No, he’s not. No. Um, he, he’s, he’s not on the Christmas card list at all. Jeff: Oh man. Jeff’s Concert Marathon Jeff: Can I just tell you guys that I did something, um, I did something crazy a couple weeks ago and I went to three shows in one week, like I was 20 fucking two, Brett: Good grief. Jeff: and. It was a blast. So, okay, so the background of this is my oldest son [00:28:00] loves hip hop, and when we drive him to college and back, or when I do, it’s often just me. Um, he, he goes deep and he, it’s a lot of like, kind of indie hip hop and a lot. It’s just an interesting, he listens to interesting shit, but he will go deep and he’ll just like, give me a tour through someone’s discography or through all their features somewhere, whatever it is. And like, it’s the kind of input that I love, which is just like, I don’t, even if it’s not my genre, like if you’re passionate and you can just weave me through the interrelationship and the history and whatever it is I’m in. So as a result of that, made me a huge fan of Danny Brown and made me a huge fan of the sky, Billy Woods. And so what happened was I went to a hip hop show at the seventh Street entry, uh, which is attached to First Avenue. It’s a little club, very small, lovely little place, the only place my band could sell out. Um, and I watched a hip hop show there on a Monday night, Tuesday night. I went to the Uptown Theater, which Brett is now a actually an operating [00:29:00] theater for shows. Uh, and I, and I saw Danny Brown, but I also saw two hyper pop bands, a genre I was not previously aware of, including one, which was amazing, called Fem Tenal. And I was in line to get into that show behind furries, behind trans Kids. Like it was this, I was the weirdest, like I did not belong. Underscores played, and, and this will mean something to somebody out there, but not, didn’t mean anything to me until that night. And, uh. I felt like such, there were times, not during Danny Brown, Danny Brown’s my age all good. But like there were times where I was in the crowd ’cause I’m tall. Anybody that doesn’t know I’m very tall and I’m wearing like a not very comfortable or safe guy seeming outfit, a black hoodie, a black stocking cap. Like I basically looked like I’m possibly a shooter and, and I’m like standing among all these young people loving it, but feeling a little like, should I go to the back? Even like I was leaving that show [00:30:00] and the only people my age were people’s parents that were waiting to pick them up on the way out. So anyway, that was night two. Danny Brown was awesome. And then two nights later I went to see, this is way more my speed, a band called the Dazzling Kilman who were a band that. Came out in the nineties, St. Louis and a noisy Matthew Rock. Wikipedia claims they invented math rock. It’s a really stupid claim, uh, but it’s a lovely, interesting band and it’s a friend of mine named Nick Sakes, who’s who fronted that band and was in all these great bands back when I was in bands called Colos Mite and Sick Bay, and all this is great shit. So they played a reunion show. In this tiny punk rock club here called Cloudland, just a lovely little punk rock club. And, um, and, and that was like rounded out my week. So like, I was definitely, uh, a tourist the early part of the week, mostly at the Danny Brown Show. But then I like got to come home to my noisy punk rock [00:31:00] on, uh, on Thursday night. And I, I fucking did three shows and it hurt so bad. Like even by the first of three bands on the second night. I was like, I don’t think I can make it. And I do. I already pregame shows with ibuprofen. Just to be really clear, I microdose glucose tabs at shows like, like I am, I am a full on old man doing these things. But, um, I did get some cred with my kids for being at a hyper pop show all by myself. And, Christina: Hell yeah. A a Jeff: friends seemed impressed. Christina: no, as a as, as as they should be. I’m impressed. And like, and I, I, I typically like, I definitely go to like more of like, I go, I go to shows more frequently and, and I’m, I’m even like, I’m, I’m gonna be real with you. I’m like, yeah, three in one week. Jeff: That’s a lot. Christina: That’s a lot. That’s a lot. Jeff: man. Did I feel good when I walked home from that last show though? I was like, I fucking did it. I did not believe I wasn’t gonna bail on at least two of those shows, if not all three. Anyway, just wanted to say Brett: I [00:32:00] do like one show a year, but Jeff: that’s how I’ve been for years this year. I think I’ve seen eight shows. Brett: damn. Jeff: Yeah, it’s Brett: Alright, so you’ve been teasing us about this, this contest you won. Jeff: Yeah, please, Christina. Sorry to push that off. Christina: No, no, no, no. That’s, that’s completely okay. That, that, that, that’s great. Uh, no. Christina Wins Big Christina: So, um, I won two six K monitors. Brett: Damn. Jeff: is that what those boxes are behind you? Christina: Yeah, yeah. This is what the boxes are behind me, so I haven’t been able to get them up because this happened. I got them literally right in the midst of all this stuff with my back. Um, but I do have an Ergotron poll now that is here, and, and Grant has said that he will, will get them up. But yeah, so I won 2 32 inch six K monitors from a Reddit contest. Brett: How, how, how, Jeff: How does this happen? How do I find a Reddit contest? Christina: Yeah. So I got lucky. So I have, I, I have a clearly, well, well, um, there was a little, there was a little bit of like, other step to it than that, but like, uh, so how it worked was basically, um, LG is basically just put out [00:33:00] two, they put out a new 32 inch six K monitor. I’ll have it linked in, in, in the show notes. Um, so we’ve talked about this on this podcast before, but like one of my big, like. Pet peeve, like things that I can’t get past. It’s like I need like a retina screen. Like I need like the, the perfect pixel doubling thing for that the Mac Os deals with, because I’ve used a 5K screen, either through an iMac or um, an lg, um, ultra fine or, um, a, uh, studio display. For like 11 years. And, and I, and I’ve been using retina displays on laptops even longer than that. And so if I use like a regular 4K display, like it just, it, it doesn’t work for me. Um, you can use apps like, um, like better control and other things to kind of emulate, like what would be like if you doubled the resolution, then it, it down, you know, um, of samples that, so that. It looks better than, than if it’s just like the, the, the 4K stuff where in the, the user interface things are too big and whatnot. And to be clear, this is a Macco West problem. If [00:34:00] you are using Windows or Linux or any other operating system that does fractional scaling, um, correctly, then this is not a problem. But Macco West does not do fractional scaling direct, uh, correctly. Um, weirdly iOS can, like, they can do three X resolution and other things. Um, but, but, but Macs does not. And that’s weird because some of the native resolutions on some of the MacBook errors are not even perfectly pixeled doubled, meaning Apple is already having to do a certain amount of like resolution changes to, to fit into their own, created by their, their own hubris, like way of insisting on, on only having like, like two x pixel doubling 18 years ago, we could have had independent, uh, resolutions, uh, um, for, for UI elements and, and, and window bars. But anyway, I, I’m, I’m digressing anyway. I was looking at trying to get either a second, uh, studio display, which I don’t wanna do because Apple’s reportedly going to be putting out a new one. Um, and they’re expensive or getting, um, there are now a number of different six K [00:35:00] displays that are not $6,000 that are on the market. So, um, uh, uh, Asus has one, um, there is one from like a, a Chinese company called like, or Q Con that, um, looks like a, a complete copy of this, of the pro display XDR. It has a different panel, but it’s, it’s six K and they, they’ve copied the whole design and it’s aluminum and it’s glossy and it looks great, but I’d have to like get it from like. A weird distributor, and if I have any issues with it, I don’t really wanna have to send it back to China and whatnot. And then LG has one that they just put out. And so I’ve been researching these on, on Mac rumors and on some other forums. And, um, I, uh, I, somebody in one of the Mac Roomers forums like posted that there was like a contest that LG was running in a few different subreddits where they were like, tell us why you should get one of, like, we’re gonna be giving away like either one or two monitors, and I guess they did this in a few subreddits. Tell us why this would be good for your workflow. And, um, I guess I, I guess I’m one of the people who kind of read the [00:36:00] assignment because it, okay, I’ll just be honest with this, with, with you guys on this podcast, uh, because I, I don’t think anyone from LG will hear this and my answers were accurate anyway. But anyway, this was not the sort of contest where it was like we will randomly select a winner. This was the moderators and lg, were going to read the responses and choose the winner. Jeff: Got it. Christina: So if you spend a little bit of time and thoughtfully write out a response, maybe you stand a better chance of winning the contest. Jeff: yeah, yeah. Put the work in like it was 2002. Christina: Right. Anyway, I still was shocked when I like woke up like on like Halloween and they were like, congratulations, you’ve won two monitors. I’m like, I’m sorry. What? Jeff: That’s amazing. Christina: Yeah, yeah, yeah, Jeff: Nice work. I know I’ve, you know, I’ve been staring at those boxes behind you this whole time, just being like, those look like some sweet monitors. Christina: yeah, yeah. Monitor Setup Challenges Christina: I mean, and, uh, [00:37:00] uh, it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s, and I, I’m very much, so my, my, my only issue is, okay, how am I gonna get these on my desk? So I’m gonna have to do something with my iMac and I’m probably gonna have to get rid of my, my my, my 5K, um, uh, uh, studio display, at least in the short term. Ergotron Mounts and Tall Poles Christina: Um, but what I did do is I, um, I ordered from, um, Ergotron, ’cause I already have. Um, two of their, um, LX mounts, um, or, or, or, or arms. Um, and only one of them is being used right now. And then I have a different arm that I use for the, um, um, iMac. Um, they sell like a, if you call ’em directly, you can get them to send you a tall pole so that you can put the two arms on top of them. And that way I think I can like, have them so that I can have like one pole and then like have one on one side, one Jeff: I have a tall pole. Christina: and, and yeah, that’s what she said. Um, Jeff: as soon as I said it, I was like, for fuck’s sake. But Christina: um, but, uh, but, but yeah, but so that way I think I, I can, I, in theory, I can stack the market and have ’em side by side. I don’t know. Um, I got that. I, I had to call Tron and, and order that from them. [00:38:00] Um, it was only a hundred dollars for, for the poll and then $50 for a handling fee. Jeff: It’s not easy to ship a tall pole. Brett: That’s what she said. Christina: that is what she said. Uh, that is exactly what she said. But yeah, so I, I, the, the, the unfortunate thing is that, um, I, um, I, I had to, uh, get a, like all these, they, they came in literally right before Thanksgiving, and then I’ve had, like, all my back stuff has Jeff: Yeah, no Christina: debilitating, but I’m looking forward to, um, getting them set up and used. And, uh, yeah. Review Plans and Honest Assessments Christina: And then full review will be coming to, uh, to, I have to post a review on Reddit, but then I will also be doing a more in depth review, uh, on this podcast if anybody’s interested in, in other places too, to like, let let you know, like if it’s worth your money or not. Um, ’cause there, like I said, there are, there are a few other options out there. So it’s not one of those things where like, you know, um, like, thank you very much for the free monitor, um, monitors. But, but I, I will, I will give like the, the, you know, an honest assessment or Current Display Setup Brett: So [00:39:00] do you currently have a two display setup? Christina: No. Um, well, yes, and kind of, so I have my, my, I have my 5K studio display, and then I have like my iMac that I use as a two to display setup. But then otherwise, what I’ve had to do, and this is actually part of why I’m looking forward to this, is I have a 4K 27 inch monitor, but it’s garbage. And it, it’s one of those things where I don’t wanna use it with my Mac. And so I wind up only using it with my, with my Windows machine, with my framework desktop, um, with my Windows or Linux machine. And, and because that, even though I, it supports Thunderbolt, the Apple display is pain in the ass to use with those things. It doesn’t have the KVM built in. Like, it doesn’t like it, it just, it’s not good for that situation. So yeah, this will be of this size. I mean, again, like I, I, I’m 2 32 inch monitors. I don’t know how I’m gonna deal with that on my Jeff: I Brett: yeah. So right now I’m looking at 2 32 inch like UHD monitors, Christina: Yeah,[00:40:00] Brett: I will say that on days when my neck hurts, it sucks. It’s a, it’s too wide a range to, to like pan back and forth quickly. Like I’ll throw my back out, like trying to keep track of stuff. Um, but I have found that like if I keep the second display, just like maybe social media apps is the way I usually set it up. And then I only work on one. I tried buying an extra wide curve display, hated it. Jeff: Uh, I’ve always wanted to try one, but Christina: I don’t like them. Jeff: Yeah. Christina: Well, for me, well for me it’s two things. One, it’s the, I don’t love the whole like, you know, thing or whatever, but the big thing honestly there, if you could give me, ’cause people are like, oh, you can get a really big 5K, 2K display. I’m like, that’s not a 5K display. That is 2 27 inch, 1440 P displays. One, you know, ultra wide, which is great. Good for you. That’s not retina. And I’m a sicko Who [00:41:00] needs the, the pixel doubling? Like I wish that my eyes could not use that, but, but, but, Jeff: that needs the pixel. Like was that the headline of your Reddit, uh, Christina: no, no. It wasn’t, it wasn’t. But, but maybe it should be. Hi, I’m a sicko who only, um, fucks with, with, with, with, with, with, with retina displays. Ask me anything. Um, but no, but that’s a good point. Brett: I think 5K Psycho is the Christina: 5K Sicko is the po is the po title. I like that. I like that. No, what I’m thinking about doing and that’s great to know, Brett. Um, this kind of reaffirms my thing. Thunderbolt KVM and Display Preferences Christina: So what’s nice about these monitors is that they come with like, built in like, um, Thunderbolt 5K VM. So, which is nice. So you could conceivably have multiple, you know, computers, uh, connected, you know, to to, to one monitor, which I really like. Um, I mean like, ’cause like look, I, I’ve bitched and moaned about the studio display, um, primarily for the price, but at the same time, if mine broke tomorrow and if I didn’t have any way to replace it, I’ve, I’ve also gone on record saying I would buy a new one immediately. As mad as I am about a [00:42:00] lot of different things with that, that the built-in webcam is garbage. The, you know, the, the fact that there’s not a power button is garbage. The fact that you can’t use it with multiple inputs, it’s garbage. But it’s a really good display and it’s what I’m used to. Um, it’s really not any better than my LG Ultra fine from 2016. But you know what? Whatever it is, what it is. Um. I, I am a 5K sicko, but being able to, um, connect my, my personal machine and my work machine at the same time to one, and then have my Windows slash Linux computer connected to another, I think that’s gonna be the scenario where I’m in. So I’m not gonna necessarily be in a place where I’m like, okay, I need to try to look at both of them across 2 32 inch displays. ’cause I think that that, like, that would be awesome. But I feel like that’s too much. Brett: I would love a decent like Thunderbolt KVM setup that could actually swap like my hubs back and Christina: Yes. MacBook Pro and Studio Comparisons Brett: Um, so, ’cause I, I have a studio and I have my, uh, Infor MacBook Pro [00:43:00] and I actually work mostly on the MacBook Pro. Um, but if I could easily dock it and switch everything on my desk over to it, I would, I would work in my office more often. ’cause honestly, the M four MacBook Pro is, it’s a better machine than the original studio was. Um, and I haven’t upgraded my studio to the latest, but, um, I imagine the new one is top notch. Christina: Oh yeah. Yeah. Brett: my, my other one, a couple years old now is already long in the tooth. Christina: No, I mean, they’re still good. I mean, it’s funny, I saw that some YouTube video the other day where they were like, the best value MacBook you can get is basically a 4-year-old M1 max. And I was like, I don’t know about that guys. Like, I, I kind of disagree a little bit. Um, but the M1 max, which is I think is what is in the studio, is still a really, really good ship. But to your point, like they’ve made those, um. You know, the, the, the new ones are still so good. Like, I have an M three max as my personal laptop, and [00:44:00] that’s kind of like the dog chip in the, in the m um, series lineup. So I kind of am regretful for spending six grand on that one, but it is what it is, and I’m like, I’m not, I’m not upgrading. Um, I mean, maybe, maybe in, in next year if, if the M five Pro, uh, or M five max or whatever is, is really exceptional, maybe I’ll look at, okay, how much will you give me to, to trade it in? But even then, I, I, but I feel like I’m at that point where I’m like, it gets to a point where like it’s diminishing returns. Um, but, uh, just in terms of my own budget. But, um, yeah, the, the new just info like pro or or max, whatever, Brett: I have, I have an M four MacBook Pro sitting around that I keep forgetting to sell. Uh, it’s the one that I, it only had a 256 gigabyte hard drive, Jeff: what happened to me when I bought my M1, Brett: and I, and I regretted that enough that I just ordered another one. But, uh, for various reasons, I couldn’t just return the one I didn’t Jeff: ’cause it was.[00:45:00] Brett: so now I, now I have to sell it and I should sell it while it’s still a top of the line machine Christina: Sell it before, sell, sell, sell, sell it before next month, um, or, or February or whenever they sell it before then the, the pros come out. ’cause right now the M five base is out, but the pros are not. So I think feel like you could still get most of your value for it, especially since it has very few battery cycles. Be sure to put the battery cycles on your Facebook marketplace or eBay thing or whatever. Um, I bought my, uh, she won’t listen to this so she won’t know, but, um, they, there was a, a killer Cyber Monday deal, uh, for Best Buy where they had like a, the, the, the, so it’s several years old, but it was the, the M two MacBook Air, but the one that they upgraded to 16 gigs of Ram when Apple was like, oh, we have to have Apple Intelligence and everything, because they actually thought that they were actually gonna ship Apple Intelligence. So they like went back and they, like, they, they, you know, retconned like made the base model MacBook Air, like 16 [00:46:00] gigs. Um, and, uh, anyway, it was, it was $600, um, Jeff: still crazy. Christina: which, which like even for like a, a, a 2-year-old machine or whatever, I was like, yeah, she, my sister, I think she’s on like, like a 2014 or older than that. Like, like MacBook Air. She doesn’t even know where the MagSafe is. I don’t think she even knows where the laptop is. So she’s basically doing everything like on her phone and I’m like, okay, you need a laptop of some type, but at this point. I do feel strongly that like the, the, the $600 or, or, or actually I think it was $650, it was actually less, it is actually more expensive than what the, the, the Cyber Monday sale was, um, the M1, Walmart, MacBook Air. I’m like, absolutely not like that is at this point, do not buy that. Right? Like, I, especially with eight gigs of ram, I’m, I’m like, it’s been, it’s five years old. It’s a, it was a great machine and it was great value for a long time. $200. Cool, right? Like, if you could get something like use and, and, and, and if you could replace the battery or, you know, [00:47:00] for, for, you know, not, not too much money or whatever. Like, I, I, I could see like an argument to be made like value, right? But there’d be no way in hell that I would ever spend or tell anybody else to spend $650 on that new, but $600 for an M two with Jeff: Now we’re talking. Christina: which has the redesign brand new. I’m like, okay. Spend $150 more and you could have got the M four, um, uh, MacBook Air, obviously all around Better Machine. But for my sister, she doesn’t need that, Jeff: What do we have to do to put your sister in this M two MacBook Christina: that, that, that, that, that, that’s exactly it. So I, I, I was, well, also, it was one of those things I was like, I think that she would rather me spend the money on toys for my nephew for Santa Claus than, than, uh, giving her like a, a processor upgrade. Um, Jeff: Claus isn’t real. Brett: Oh shit. Jeff: Gotcha. Every year I spoil it for somebody. This year it was Christina and Brett. Sorry guys. Brett: right. Well, can I tell you guys Jeff: Yeah. [00:48:00] Brett Software. Brett: two quick projects before we do Jeff: Hold on. You don’t have to be quick ’cause you could call it Brett: We’re already at 45 minutes and I want Jeff: What I’m saying, skip GrAPPtitude. This is it? Brett: okay. Christina: us about Mark. Tell us about your projects. Brett: So, so Mark three is, there’s a public, um, test flight beta link. Uh, if you go to marked app.com, not marked two app.com, uh, marked app.com. Uh, you, there’s a link in the, in the, at the top for Christina: Join beta. Mm-hmm. Brett: Um, and that is public and you can join it and you can send me feedback directly through email because, um, uh, uh, the feedback reporter sucks for test flight and you can’t attach files. And half the time they come through as anonymous feedback and I can’t even follow up on ’em. So email me. But, um, I’ll be announcing that on my blog soon-ish. Um, right now there’s like [00:49:00] maybe a couple dozen, um, testers and I, it’s nice and small and I’m solving the biggest bugs right away. Um, so that’s been, that’s been big. Like Mark, even since we last talked has added. Do you remember Jeff when Merlin was on and he wanted to. He wanted to be able to manage his styles, um, and disable built-in styles. There’s now a whole table based style manager where you Jeff: saw that. Brett: you can, you can reorder, including built-in styles. You can reorder, enable, disable, edit, duplicate. Um, it’s like a full, full fledged, um, style manager. And I just built a whole web app that is a style generator that gives you, um, automatic like rhythm calculations for your CSS and you can, you can control everything through like, uh, like UI fields instead of having to [00:50:00] write CSS. Uh, but you can also o open up a very, I’ve spent a lot of time on the code mirror CSS editor in the web app. Uh, so, and it’s got live preview as you edit in the code mirror field. Um, so that’s pretty cool. And that’s built into marts. So if you go to style, um, generate style, it’ll load up a, a style generator for you. Anyway, there’s, there’s a ton. I’m not gonna go into all the details, but, uh, anyone listening who uses markdown for anything, especially if you want ability to export to like Word and epub and advanced PDF export, um, join the beta. Let me know what you think. Uh, help me squash bugs. But the other thing, every time I push a beta for review before the new bug reports come in, I’ve been putting time into a tool. Markdown Processor: Apex Brett: I’m calling [00:51:00] Apex and um, I haven’t publicly announced this one yet, but I probably will by the time this podcast comes out. Jeff: I mean, doesn’t this count? Brett: It, it does. I’m saying like this, this might be a, you hear you heard it here first kind of thing, um, but if you go to github.com/tt sc slash apex, um, I built a, uh, pure C markdown processor that combines syntax from cram down GitHub flavored markdown, multi markdown maku, um, common mark. And basically you can write syntax from any of those processors, including all of their special features, um, and in one document, and then use Apex in its unified mode, and it’ll just figure out what. All of your syntax is supposed to do. Um, so you can take, you can port documents from one platform to another [00:52:00] without worrying about how they’re gonna render. Um, if I can get any kind of adoption with Apex, it could solve a lot of problems. Um, I built it because I want to make it the default processor in marked ’cause right now, you, you have to choose, you know, cram Christina: Which one? Brett: mark and, and choosing one means you lose something in order to gain something. Um, so I wanted to build a universal one that brought together everything. And I added cool features from some extensions of other languages, such as if you have two lists in a row, normally in markdown, it’s gonna concatenate those into one list. Now you can put a carrot on a line between the two lists and it’ll break it into two lists. I also added support for a. An extension to cram down that lets you put double uh, carrots inside a table cell and [00:53:00] create a row band. So like a cell that, that expands it, you rows but doesn’t expand the rest of the row. Um, so you can do cell spans and row spans and it has a relaxed table version where you don’t have to have an alignment row, which is, uh, sometimes we just wanna make quickly table. You make two lines. You put some pipes in. This will, if there’s no alignment row, it will generate a table with just a table body and table data cells in no header. It also allows footers, you can add a footer to a table by using equals in the separator line. Um, it, it’s, Jeff: This is very civilized, Brett: it is. Christina: is amazing, Brett: So where Common Mark is extremely strict about things, um, apex is extremely permissive. Jeff: also itty bitty things like talk about the call out boxes from like Brett: oh yeah, it, it can handle call out syntax from Obsidian and Bear and Xcode Playgrounds. [00:54:00] Um, and it incorporates all of Mark’s syntax for like file includes and even renders like auto scroll pauses that work in marked and some other teleprompter situations. Um, it uses file ude syntax from multi markdown, like, which is just like a curly brace and, uh, marked, which is, uh, left like a double left, uh, angle bracket and then different. Brackets to surround a file name and it handles IA writer file inclusion where you just type a forward slash and then the name of a file and it automatically detects if that file is an image or source code or markdown text, and it will import it accordingly. And if it’s a CSV file, it’ll generate a table from it automatically. It’s, it’s kind of nuts. I, it’s kind of nuts. I could not have done this [00:55:00] without copilot. I, I am very thankful for copilot because my C skills are not, would not on their own, have been up to this task. I know enough to bug debug, but yeah, a lot of these features I got a big hand from copilot on. Jeff: This is also Brett. This is some serious Brett Terpstra. TURPs Hard Christina: Yeah, it is. I was gonna say, this is like Jeff: and also that’s right. Also, if your grandma ever wrote you a note and it, and though you couldn’t really read it, it really well, that renders perfectly Christina: Amazing. No, I was gonna say this is like, okay, so Apex is like the perfect name ’cause this is the apex of Brett. Jeff: Yes. Apex of Brett. Christina: That’s also that, that’s, that’s not an alternate episode title Apex of Brett. Because genuinely No, Brett, like I am, I am so stunned and impressed. I mean, you all, you always impressed me like you are the most impressive like developer that I, that I’ve ever known. But you, this is incredible. And, and this, I, I love this [00:56:00] because as you said, like common Mark is incredibly strict. This is incredibly permissive. But this is great. ’cause there are those scenarios where you might have like, I wanna use one feature from one thing or one from another, or I wanna combine things in various ways, or I don’t wanna have to think about it, you know? Brett: I aals, I forgot to mention I aals inline attribute list, which is a crammed down feature that lets you put curly brackets after like a paragraph and then a colon and then say, dot call out inside the curly brackets. And then when it renders the markdown, it creates that paragraph and adds class equals call out to the paragraph. Um, and in, in Cramon you can apply these to everything from list items to list to block quotes. Like you can do ’em for spans. You could like have one after, uh, link syntax and just apply, say dot external to a link. So the IAL syntax can add IDs classes and uh, arbitrary [00:57:00] attributes to any element in your markdown when it renders to HTML. And, uh, and Apex has first class support for I aals. Was really, that was, that Christina: that was really hard, Brett: I wrote it because I wanted, I wanted multi markdown, uh, for my prose writing, but I really missed the als. Christina: Yes. Okay. Because see, I run into this sort of thing too, right? Because like, this is a problem like that. I mean, it’s a very niche problem, um, that, that, you know, people who listen to this podcast probably are more familiar with than other types of people. But like, when you have to choose your markdown processor, which as you said, like Brett, like that can be a problem. Like, like with, with using Mark or anything else, you’re like, what am I giving up? What do I have? And, and like for me, because I started using mul, you know, markdown, um, uh, largely because of you, um, I think I was using it, I knew about it before you, but largely because of, of, of you, like multi markdown has always been like kind of my, or was historically my flavor of choice. It has since shifted to being [00:58:00] GitHub, labor bird markdown. But that’s just because the industry has taken that on, right? But there were, you know, certain things like in like, you know, multi markdown that work a certain way. And then yeah, there are things in crammed down. There are things in these other things in like, this is just, this is awesome. This Brett: It is, the whole thing is built on top of C mark, GFM, which is GitHub’s port of common mark with the GitHub flavored markdown Christina: Right. Brett: Um, and I built, like, I kept that as a sub-module, totally clean, and built all of this as extensions on top of Cmar, GFM, which, you know, so it has full compatibility with GitHub and with Common Merck by out, like outta the box. And then everything else is built on top of that. So it, uh, it covers, it covers all the bases. You’ll love it Christina: I’m so excited. No, this is awesome. And I Brett: blazing fast. It can render, I have a complex document that, that uses all of its features and it can render it in [00:59:00] 0.006 seconds. Christina: that’s awesome. Jeff: Awesome. Christina: That’s so cool. No, this is great. And yeah, I, and I think that honestly, like this is the sort of thing like if, yeah, if you can eventually get this to like be like the engine that powers like mark three, like, that’ll be really slick, right? Because then like, yeah, okay, I can take one document and then just, you know, kind of, you know, wi with, with the, you know, ha have, have the compatibility mode where you’re like, okay, the unified mode or whatever yo

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Alex Cox joins the crew to talk about mental health, Raspberry Pi, the New York Times, and some awesome Grapptitude picks for the week.

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The crew is back together again, talking about internalized homophobia and the Grammys, but in different segments. That was a weird sentence. Maybe I shouldn't be allowed to write show descriptions.

Jay Miller joins Brett and Christina to talk about life in Developer Relations, a little bit of Taylor Swift, and some intriguing app discussions.

A little dive into Guardians of the Galaxy and Brett's history with raccoons. The group does mental health, Grapptitude… and ‘Grapptibitching.'