Podcasts about not boring

We've been on a bit of a mini World Models series over the last quarter: from introducing the topic with Yi Tay, to exploring Marble with World Labs' Fei-Fei Li and Justin Johnson, to previewing World Models learned from massive gaming datasets with General Intuition's Pim de Witte (who has now written down their approach to World Models with Not Boring), to discussing the Cosmos World Model with with Andrew White of Edison Scientific on our new Science pod, to writing up our own theses on Adversarial World Models. Meanwhile Nvidia, Waymo and Tesla have published their own approaches, Google has released Genie 3, and Yann LeCun has raised $1B for AMI and published LeWorldModel.Today's guests have a radically different approach to World Modeling to every player we just mentioned — while Genie 3 is impressive, its many flaws demonstrate the issues with their approach - terrain clipping, noninteractivity (single player, no physics/no objects other than the player move), and maximum of 60 second immersion. Moonlake AI (inspired by the Dreamworks logo) is the diametric opposite - immediately multiplayer, incredibly interactive, indefinite lifetime, capable of MANY different kinds of world models by simulating environments, predicting outcomes, and planning over long horizons. This is enabled by bootstrapping from game engines and training custom agents: In Towards Efficient World Models, Chris Manning and Ian Goodfellow join Fan-Yun in explaining why their approach to efficiency with structure and casuality instead of just blind scaling is sorely needed:SOTA models still show physical or spatial understanding glitches, such as solid objects floating in mid-air or moving “inside” other solid objects.If the goal is to plan for the next action, how often is a high-resolution pixel view necessary for modeling the world? Our bet is that there is a disproportionately large share of economically valuable tasks where such detail is not required. After all, humans with a wide variety of sensory limitations have little difficulty doing almost everything in the world. Furthermore, for a large number of purposes, describing a scene or a situation in a few words of language (“the car's tires squealed as it cornered sharply”) is sufficient for understanding and planning.Experiments also show that humans only partially process visual input in a top-down, task-directed way, often making use of abstracted object-level modeling. In almost all cases, partial representations combined with semantic understanding are sufficient.…If the goal is to facilitate the understanding of causality in multimodal environments, then the world model—whether it is used in the virtual world or the physical world—must prioritize properties such as spatial and physical state consistency maintained over long time periods, and an ability to evolve the world that accurately reflects the consequences of actions. That's what Moonlake is building.Game engines are the right starting point abstraction to efficiently extract causal relationships, and building the interfaces and community (including their new $30,000 Creator Cup) to kickstart the flywheel of actions-to-observations.We were fortunate enough to attend their sessions at GDC 2026 (the Mecca of Game Devs), and were impressed by the huge variety and flexibility of the worlds people were building with Moonlake's tools already! Live videos on the pod.Full Video Pod on YouTube!Timestamps00:00 Benchmarking Gets Hard00:47 Meet Moonlake Founders01:26 Why Build World Models03:12 Structure Not Just Scale05:37 Defining Action Conditioned Worlds07:32 Abstraction Versus Bitter Lesson14:39 Language Versus JEPA Debate20:27 Reasoning Traces And Rendering Layer37:00 Gameplay Over Graphics38:02 Fiction Rules And World Tweaks39:15 Code Engines Beat Learned Priors41:10 Diffusion Scaling Limits43:23 Symbolic Versus Diffusion Boundary46:14 Platform Vision Beyond Games50:24 Spatial Audio And Multimodal Latents54:23 NLP Roots Hiring And Moon Lake NameTranscript[00:00:00] Cold Open[00:00:00] Chris Manning: Think this whole space is extremely difficult as things are emerging now. And I mean, it's not only for world models, I think it's for everything including text-based models, right? ‘cause in the early days it seemed very easy to have good benchmarks ‘cause we could do things like question answering benchmarks.[00:00:20] But these days so much of what people are wanting to do is nothing like that, right? You're wanting to get some recommendations about which backpack would be best for you for your trip in Europe next month. It's not so easy to come up with a benchmark, and it's the same problem with these world models.[00:00:41] Meet the Founders[00:00:41] swyx: Okay. We're back in the studio with Moon Lake's, two leads. I, I guess there's other founders as well, but, sun and Chris Manning. Welcome to the studio.[00:00:54] Fan-yun Sun: Thanks. Thanks, Chris. Thanks for having us.[00:00:56] swyx: You've got, you guys have, come burst onto the scene with a really refreshing [00:01:00] new take of mold models.[00:01:01] I would just want to, I guess ask how you, the two of you came together. Chris, you're a legend in NLP and just AI in, in, in general. You're, you're his grad student, I guess[00:01:10] Fan-yun Sun: Actually my co-founder.[00:01:11] swyx: Oh, yeah.[00:01:12] Fan-yun Sun: I should give a lot of credit to my co-founder, Sharon. Yeah. She was, she was actually working with Professor Fe Androgyn and then she ended up working with, Ron and Chris Manning here.[00:01:22] And then, so I got connected through to Chris initially, actually through my co-founder,[00:01:26] What is Moon Lake?[00:01:26] swyx: what is Moon Lake? What, what is, actually, I'm also very curious about the name, but like why going into world models?[00:01:33] Fan-yun Sun: So I was working a lot. With actually Nvidia research during my PhD years on essentially generating interactive worlds to train reinforcement learning agents or embody EA agents.[00:01:44] And then there's two observations. One in academia and one in industry. An industry like folks at Nvidia are actually paying a lot of dollars to purchase these types of interactive worlds, whether it's for the sake of evaluation or training the robots, or policies or models. And [00:02:00] then, in academia, same thing is happening.[00:02:02] And more specifically, when I was actually working with Nvidia on the synthetic data foundation model training project, we were actually generating a lot of these synthetic data and showing that, hey, you can actually, these synthetic data are actually as useful as real world data when it comes to multimodal pre-training.[00:02:16] But then, like I said, there's a lot of dollars being paid out to like external vendors or, or like. Other folks to manually curate these types of data. It was very clear to us that, okay, on our way to, let's call it embody general intelligence models need to learn the consequences behind their actions, which means that they need interactive data and the demand for those types of data are growing exponentially.[00:02:38] But everybody's sort of thinking about it from a pure, say, video generation perspective or something else. But we feel like the true actually opportunity is actually building reasoning models that can do these things, like how humans do these things today. So that's a little bit on the genesis of Moon Lake, and I think the reason I got into world models was partly.[00:02:59] A philosophical [00:03:00] take of the on the world where I like, believe the simulation theory and stuff like that. But on the other, on the other hand, it's really just like, oh, like there's an opportunity there that I feel like nobody's doing it the way I think should be done.[00:03:10] Structure, Not Scale: The Vision[00:03:10] Chris Manning: I can say a little bit about that.[00:03:12] Yeah. So of the overall goal is the pursuit of artificial intelligence and most of my career has been doing that in the language space and that's been just extremely productive. As we all know, the story of the last few years, I don't have to tell about how much we've achieved with large language models, but, uh.[00:03:31] Although they have been extremely effective for ramping language and general intelligence, it's clearly not the whole world. There's this multimodal world of vision, sound, taste that you'd like to be dealing with more than just, language. And then the question is how to do it. And despite, a huge investment in the computer vision space, right, as the research field computer [00:04:00] vision has been for decades, far, far larger than the language space, actually.[00:04:05] I think it's fair. Say that, vision, understanding sort of stalled out, right? You got to object recognition and then progress just wasn't being made right? If you look at any of these, vision language models, it's the language that's doing 90% of the work and the vision barely works. And so there's really an interesting research question as to why that is and at heart, the ideas behind Moon Lake are an attempt to answer that, believing that there can be a really rich connection between a more symbolic layer of abstracted understanding of visual domains, which aren't in the mainstream vision models, which are still trying to operate on the surface level of pixels.[00:04:50] swyx: I think one of your blog posts, you put it as structure, not scale. Is that, a general thesis?[00:04:57] Chris Manning: Yeah. Well, scale is good too.[00:04:58] swyx: Yeah. Scale is good. Too[00:04:59] lot,[00:04:59] Chris Manning: [00:05:00] lots of data is good as well and scale, but nevertheless, you want the structure Yeah. To be able to much more efficiently learn.[00:05:07] swyx: Yeah. The other thing I really liked also is you put out an example of what your kind of reasoning traces look like.[00:05:12] Right. Which you would distill is the word that comes to mind. I don't even think that's a good, good description, but it would involve, for example, geometry, physics, affordances, symbolic logic, perceptual mappings, and what, what have you. But like that, that is the kind of example that involves, let's call it spatial reasoning, role model reasoning as as compared to normal LM reasoning.[00:05:35] Yeah.[00:05:36] Defining World Models vs Video Generation[00:05:36] Vibhu: But also like taking it a step back. So how do you guys define world models? A lot of people see okay, you can do diffusion, you can do video generation. But, you guys put out quite a few blog posts. You put out a essay recently, we can even pull it up about efficient world models. You have a pretty like structural definition here, but for the general audience that don't super follow the space, right.[00:05:55] What's, what's the difference in what we see from like a video generation model to [00:06:00] a world gen A simulator? How do you kind of paint that last[00:06:02] Chris Manning: year? Yeah, so I think this is actually a little bit subtle because, people look at these amazing generative AI video models, SAWA VO three, one of these things, and they think Genie, they think, oh, this is amazing.[00:06:17] This is we've solved understanding the world because you can produce these generative AI videos, but. The reality is that although the visuals do look fantastic, those visuals actually are accompanied by an understanding of the 3D world, understanding how objects can move, what the consequences of different actions are, and that's what's really needed for spatial intelligence.[00:06:49] So I mean, a term we sometimes use is that you need action condition, world models. That you only actually have a world model if you can predict, [00:07:00] given some action is taken, what is going to change in the world because of it. And in particular, that becomes hard over longer time scales. So if you're simply, trying to.[00:07:12] Predict the next video frame. That's not so difficult. But what you actually want to do is understand the consequences, likely consequences of actions minutes into the future. And to do that, you actually much more of an abstracted semantic model of the world.[00:07:32] The Bitter Lesson & Data Abstraction[00:07:32] swyx: Yeah, the question comes where you want to have more structure than is available in just predicting the next token.[00:07:41] And typically, well, let's, let's call it the experience of the last five years has been that is just washed away by scale, right? So what is the right middle ground here that, you don't ignore the bitter lesson, but also you. Can be more efficient than what we're doing today.[00:07:57] Chris Manning: One possibility [00:08:00] is, look, if we just collect masses and masses and masses and masses of video data, this problem will be solved.[00:08:11] Under certain assumptions that could be true, but there are sort of multiple avenues in which it could not be true. The first is what's really essential is understanding the, the consequences of actions producing an action conditioned world model. And if you are simply, collecting observational video data, which is the easy stuff to collect, when you're sort of mining online videos, you don't actually.[00:08:41] Know the actions that are being taken to see how the video is changing. And so if you are never collecting directly actions and you are having to try and infer them from what happened in the observed video, that's not impossible. But it's very [00:09:00] hard and it's not really established that you can get that to work at any scale yet.[00:09:05] And so there's a lot of premium on collecting action condition video data, which is part of why there's been a lot of interest in using simulation so that you can be collecting data where you do know the actions, which isn't quite limited supply, but there's also in the limit of as much data as you could possibly have.[00:09:28] Maybe the problem is eventually solvable, but. Even though we collect huge amounts of text data is always at a great level of abstraction, right? Language is a human designed, abstracted representation where there's meaning in each token and it's representing and abstraction of the world, right?[00:09:51] As soon as you are describing someone as a professor, and as soon as you are saying that they're condescending, right? These are very [00:10:00] abstracted descriptions of the world. It's not at what you're observing as pixel level, and to get to that kind of degree of abstraction, starting from pixels is orders and magnitude of extra data and processing.[00:10:14] And so, although, we absolutely want to exploit, get as much data as possible, use the bitter lesson. Nevertheless, if there are ways in which you can work with five orders of magnitude less data than people working purely from pixels, you're gonna be able to make a lot more progress, a lot more quickly.[00:10:34] And that's the bet here. And so you could just say that's only wanting to be able to, do it more efficiently, do it more quickly, do it more cheaply. But I think it's actually more than that, I think. One should be making the analogy to how human beings work at one level. You know? Yes, we have these high [00:11:00] resolution eyes and we can look and see a scene like a video, but all of the evidence from neuroscience and psychology is that most of what comes into people's eyes is never processed.[00:11:13] Right. That you are doing fairly fine ated processing of exactly what you're focusing on. But as soon as it's away from that of yeah, there's another guy over there that you've sort of only processing top down this very abstracted semantic description of the world around you. And so, that's what human beings are doing.[00:11:33] They're working with semantic abstractions and so. I think it is just the right representation. ‘cause we also have other goals we want to be able to do, real time worlds. So that means there's a limit to how much processing you can do and we want to do long-term planning and consistency. And again, that favors abstraction.[00:11:55] I mean, I guess there was actually a recent. Blog posts that [00:12:00] came out from our Friends of physical intelligence and, they were sort of heading in the same direction they were saying Oh, to the pay[00:12:06] swyx: pay model.[00:12:07] Chris Manning: Yeah. Yeah. To maintain a long term memory of what's happening in the world. So we can, do longer term we actually storing text of what is, been happening in the world.[00:12:19] Right. It is not such a successful strategy of trying to keep it all at a pixel level.[00:12:24] Vibhu: And yeah, I mean, you can see it in video models like that Temporal consistency. We're at a scale of train on, all the video data we have. We have it for maybe 30 seconds, a few minutes. That's not the same as a game state played for half an hour.[00:12:37] Right. I thought you guys break it down pretty well. You have a, you have a blog post about. Building multimodal worlds with an agent. I dunno if you guys wanna talk about this. This is one of the things I read, I[00:12:48] swyx: thought, yeah, it's the thing I talked about with the reasoning chain. Yeah.[00:12:51] Vibhu: So there's like different phases to this.[00:12:53] It seems like it's more of an agent, a scaffold, very different approach than just, type in a prompt and you, you don't have the same consistency. [00:13:00] It also, like, for people that are listening, I, I would highly recommend reading it. It breaks down the problem in a different light, right?[00:13:06] So like, what do you need to consider when you're talking about video, like world game models, right? How would, what do you need to consider? What are the factors? What are the elements? What's the state? So I don't know if you guys have stuff to talk about for this one.[00:13:19] Fan-yun Sun: Yeah. Actually, I wanted to add on a little bit Yeah.[00:13:22] On our previous point, which is just like, change topics so quickly. I, I do feel like sometimes people confuse like, oh, like we're taking an an, an method with abstraction. That means they don't believe in bitter lesson. Like that's just false, right? Like we are believed is a bitter lesson. But then I feel like the question that we always discuss is like, what is the right abstraction level today?[00:13:42] The analogy I like to make is like, let's just say we can encode and decode. Represent all of images, videos, audio and bytes. Then the most bitter lesson approached is to train a next byte prediction model as opposed to the next token prediction model where it's just like, okay, it's natively multimodal, can just, but it's like, yeah, like [00:14:00] to, to Chris's point, it's like the scale and computing you need to achieve that.[00:14:03] So that's why we always come back to like, okay, what is the most efficient way to do it? And reasoning models to the point of this blog post is a showcase of like, Hey, we're actually just like reasoning about the world and reasoning about. The aspects of the world that CAGR that matter for me to learn what I want to learn from this role model.[00:14:21] swyx: Yeah, it's like you're improving the en encoder of whatever you're, trying to model. And like a better representation would just represent the important things in less space. Yeah. Which would just be more efficient.[00:14:33] Fan-yun Sun: Yeah.[00:14:34] swyx: So yeah, I, I, I fully agree that it is not, antagonistic to, bitter lesson.[00:14:38] I do wanna wanna mention one more thing. Is there any philosophical differences with the JPA stuff that, Yun is working on? I gotta go there. You, you, you, you're, you're imagining like some latent abstraction. I'm like, okay, fine. Let's, let's talk about it, right? Like it's an elephant in the room.[00:14:52] Chris Manning: Yeah.[00:14:53] JEPA & Philosophical Differences with LeCun[00:14:53] Chris Manning: There are philosophical differences. Jan Lacoon is a dear friend of mine, but. [00:15:00] He has never appreciated the power of language in particular, or symbolic representations in general. Yarn is a very visual thinker. He always wants to claim that he thinks visually and there are no words, symbols, or math in his head.[00:15:21] Maybe that's true of yarn. It's certainly not the way I think. Um. But at any rate, the world according to yarn is the basic stuff of the, the world and of intelligence is visual and language is just. This low bit rate communication mechanism between humans and it doesn't have much other utility and it's far inferior to the high bit rate video, that comes into your eyes.[00:15:53] And I think he's fundamentally missing a number of important things [00:16:00] there. Think of this evolutionary argument looking at animals, right? That the closest analogies, the things with chimps, right? So chimpanzees, have fairly similar brains to human beings. They have great vision systems, they have great memory systems.[00:16:18] They've got, better memory than we do of short term memories. They can plan, they can build primitive tools that, humans. Massively ahead in what we understand about the world, what we can plan, what we can build. And essentially what took off for us was that humans managed to develop language and that gave a symbolic knowledge, representation, and reasoning level, which just, okay if this sort of vaulting of what could be done with the intelligence in brains.[00:16:59] So the [00:17:00] philosopher Dan de refers to language as a cognitive tool and argues that, humans unique among the creatures in the world have managed to build their own cognitive tools and language is the famous first example. But other things like, mathematics and programming languages are also cognitive tools.[00:17:21] They give you an ability to. Think in abstractions, in extended causal reasoning chains. And that allows you to do much more. And we use that for spatial representation and intelligence and planning and gameplay as well. So we believe, and this is, underlying the specific technologies that Moon Lake is making, that symbolic representations are powerful.[00:17:50] And you want to use that in your understanding of the visual world when you want a causal understanding, when you want to maintain long-term [00:18:00] consistency and prediction. And as I understand it, that's just not in ya Koon's worldview. So I think that's the fundamental philosophical difference. Then there's the specific model.[00:18:11] He's been advancing jpa, that's a reasonable. Research bed is a direction as to, to head for building out a model of the visual world. To my mind, it's sort of one reasonable research bed. It's not really established. It's the best one that everyone should be following,[00:18:32] swyx: at least developed at scale, at Meta.[00:18:34] But it's not just vision, right? Like, I mean, JPA is a, just joint admitting prediction can be applied to anything really. And people have done it. The argument is that there is a latent representation or that is probably more. Suited to the task, then why not let machines do it for us instead of predefining it at all?[00:18:50] And isn't something like a JPA shaped thing the right answer? And if not, why not?[00:18:55] Chris Manning: So I think there's a part of jpa that's right, which is [00:19:00] you do want to have a joint. Embedding that gives you a consistent model of the world. And Jan's argument is you can never get that from auto aggressive language models ‘cause they're sort of left to right churning out one token at a time.[00:19:22] I guess this is where we're the research arguments of the field, I'm not actually convinced that's right. ‘cause although the token production is this auto aggressive, process that's heading, left to right, I guess don't have to be left to right. But anyway, in sequence of tokens we could have right to left Arabic.[00:19:40] But although that's true, all of the weights of the model that are internal to the transformer, they are a joint model of the model's understanding of the world. And so I think you can think of the weights of the model as a form of. Joint representation, [00:20:00] and therefore it is plausible to think that could be the basis of a world model, which avoids, ya's objections.[00:20:10] swyx: I think I follow, and obviously that would touch on what Moon Lake eventually ends up doing as well. Right. Like, which it's hard to tell because you put out the end results, but we don't know the inputs that go into it. So it's, it's, that's something that we have to figure out over time.[00:20:25] Vibhu: Yeah. I mean, I guess this kind of breaks down some of the outputs. Do you wanna walk us through it?[00:20:31] Reasoning Traces & Interactive Worlds[00:20:31] Fan-yun Sun: Yeah. So this, this really just walks us through the reasoning traces of like, okay. So that just say, if we wanna build a world in this context, it's really just a game demo that, that shows the, the variety of interactions that this world model can build.[00:20:45] And yeah, it's really just a reasoning traces of like, okay it prompted to create a bowling game. Like how did it achieve what you saw? That level of causality, interaction and consistency, right? So yeah, this is almost just like a, an example of [00:21:00] like a reasoning traces. Very[00:21:01] swyx: detailed.[00:21:01] Fan-yun Sun: Yeah.[00:21:01] Vibhu: Very, very detailed.[00:21:02] You gotta you don't even realize it, right? Like when a video is generated, what happens when a ball strikes a pin, right? So first, like you, there's audio in that, like audio triggers happens, score increments, the world changes. Like pins have to start dropping. There's a timer that goes on. It's just like very similar to how now we're used to reasoning for language models.[00:21:20] There's a whole state of what happens. So geometry, physics, all this stuff. And then yeah, there's kind of that single prompt. So asset, ation all this stuff. It's like a, it's a nice view to see what's going on.[00:21:32] swyx: I think Sun is also too polite to point out that, both like Google's genie, demos as well as world Labs is marble, do not have interactive worlds.[00:21:41] Fan-yun Sun: That's the benefit of having a reasoning model, right? Like, because you can, you can say, oh, like maybe in this particular context, I want to learn how to bowl. And then you can say, okay, then what is it important when it comes to learning how to bowl? Okay, maybe it's like I need to understand the, the basic of like, physics and I want to throw it over [00:22:00] them.[00:22:00] I wanna know that when I, when it resets it's a new game. So I know that yeah, basically, you know to pick up the ball, you know that ball's gonna cause the pins to fall down. You know that what's important to this particular bowling game is to score and you know that the score corresponds to the number of pins that fell down.[00:22:19] So it's just like, if it's a model that sort of knows what it. Looks like, knows what a bowling game looks like, but doesn't actually allows you to practice over and over again and to understand that, oh, like what it takes to actually get a high score. Then it sort of doesn't actually allow you to learn what you set out to learn within the world model.[00:22:38] And I think this is really just one example of showing like the advantages of the approach that we're taking over most the, let's call it the zeitgeist, is today, when people talk about clinical role models,[00:22:51] Chris Manning: right? So it sort of seems like the question to ask when there's a world model is.[00:22:58] Can I not [00:23:00] only just wander around the world and look at the beautiful graphics, can I interact with the objects in the world and see the right consequences of actions?[00:23:11] Vibhu: And you also understand what the consequences would be if you do something right. So it's not just like, okay, there's one thing if I pick it up, something will happen.[00:23:19] But, there's 50 options and I know I can expect, I can infer what would happen if I do any of them. Right. So very different when you can actually see it play around with it.[00:23:28] swyx: There,[00:23:28] Beyond Unity: Cognitive Tools for World Building[00:23:31] swyx: there's two cheeky elements of that. I mean, the, the, the I guess, less ambitious one is, let's really establish for listeners, why is this fundamentally different than writing Unity code, right?[00:23:40] Like just creating a model to translate a prompt into Unity code[00:23:44] Fan-yun Sun: so there is an underlying physics engine. Yeah. In that sense, there's some overlapping things to Unity, but the way we think about it is like physics engine. Tools or code are cognitive tools like borrowing Chris's term, right? Like tools [00:24:00] that the model can employ as means to an end.[00:24:04] So today maybe you say, okay, in this particular context we care about physics, we care about the long-term causality consequences. Then yes, we deploy it, employ physics engine, and then maybe tomorrow we say, okay, we're we're training that. Just say drones where we only care about really fluid dynamics and the visual aspect of the world.[00:24:25] Then, then yeah, maybe we don't actually, the model actually doesn't have to use a physics engine. Or maybe it employs other types of representation or physics engine to achieve the task. So yes, writing code for Unity is sort of similar to a tool that our A model can employ, but our goal is for a model to take a representation conditioned reasoning.[00:24:46] Approach or process.[00:24:47] swyx: Yeah,[00:24:47] Fan-yun Sun: internally.[00:24:48] swyx: Yeah. Using these things as just like general two calls. Right. Which I think is very interesting. The other more ambitious one is, some kind of recursive element where it becomes multiplayer, right? Like here, there's a single player element, you're not [00:25:00] modeling any other people involved.[00:25:01] And that is a whole other thing.[00:25:04] Fan-yun Sun: But in fact, we can really do multiplayers. Oh yeah, okay. I haven't seen any double situations. So just actually just like prompt our, our model to say, Hey, like configure to multiplayer. Then it'll do like this. You'll be able to configure multiplayer[00:25:16] swyx: great[00:25:17] Fan-yun Sun: persistency database for you.[00:25:18] Easy. Yeah.[00:25:19] Vibhu: So what, what are like some of the current limitations in where we're at? So there's one approach of like, okay, scale up video predictors. Obviously there's data issues. With approaches like this, is it data constraints? What are like the next steps? Is it real time? Like, so there's one side of, write an agent to write Unity code, but okay, I want to be streaming a game real time.[00:25:38] I want to have characters being also like agent, but where, where do we kinda see this scaling up? Right?[00:25:44] Fan-yun Sun: Yeah, there's definitely a data constraint. Like the more data, the, the better. This reasoning model can almost basically act as humans to like operate a variety of tools and softwares to build whatever's necessary.[00:25:57] And then there's a sort [00:26:00] of fidelity constraint, which we're actually solving with another model, which we can talk about later. But it's like, it's not as easy to get to photorealism with the approach that we're taking. But we think there are better solutions to that, which is we can dive into later.[00:26:14] Later.[00:26:15] Vibhu: The one one thing you note here is it's a diffusion model, right? So there's, there's a few approaches, diffusion caution, splatting, yeah, so Ry diffusion model, you guys wanna[00:26:25] Fan-yun Sun: Yeah.[00:26:25] Vibhu: Introduce,[00:26:26] Fan-yun Sun: yeah, totally.[00:26:26] Rie: Neural Rendering & Skins for Worlds[00:26:26] Fan-yun Sun: So within our world modeling framework, we think there are two models that we train, right?[00:26:31] Like, there's the multimodal reasoning model that we just talked about that essentially handles. Mainly the, the causality, the persistency and logic determinism of the world. And then RY is our bet on saying, okay, like while all those model, can take care of all these things that we just talked about, it's limitations compared to existing, say, video models, is that it doesn't have as high of a pixel [00:27:00] ality right off the gate, right?[00:27:02] And EE is to say, Hey, we can actually take whatever persistent representation that we generate with our multimodal reasoning model and learn to restyle it into photo photorealistic styles or arbitrary styles you want. So this model is almost to say, Hey, I'm going to respect the persistency and interactivity of the world that you created, but my only job is to make sure that its pixel distribution is close to what we want.[00:27:29] Vibhu: Yeah.[00:27:30] swyx: Great example right there. You kept the KL divergence.[00:27:33] Fan-yun Sun: Oh. Where,[00:27:34] swyx: no, no. I mean this, this is a, a classic like, how you don't stray too far from the source material as you, you kept the kl, which is Oh yeah. Kind of cool. Yeah.[00:27:43] Fan-yun Sun: Yeah.[00:27:44] swyx: I mean, and the[00:27:44] Chris Manning: difference is, and I mean sun was pointing at this, where sort of saying it's in one way a more difficult path, but a better path that, typically the diffusion models are producing the whole scene and it looks lovely, [00:28:00] but there isn't spatial understanding behind it, which is allowing for the real time graphics gameplay, the spatial intelligence, understanding the consequences of worlds where this is, taking a path where it is assuming an abstracted semantic model of the world's state.[00:28:20] And then the diffusion model is then being used on top of that to produce the high quality graphics.[00:28:27] swyx: Is there an intended practical, or business use for this, or is it like a, like a demonstration of capabilities?[00:28:34] Fan-yun Sun: We actually believe that this is gonna be the next paradigm of rendering. So it's gonna replace how ra raizer, it's gonna replace DLSS today because it not only has these pixel prior that's learned from the world such that you can literally play any game in photo realistic styles, which is a lot of people's desire when they do GTA, right?[00:28:51] Like,[00:28:51] Vibhu: all the mods, all the people adding perfect lighting and all this.[00:28:54] swyx: So[00:28:54] Fan-yun Sun: skins[00:28:55] swyx: for worlds, let's call it[00:28:56] Fan-yun Sun: skins, let's call it skin for worlds. I,[00:28:58] Vibhu: it's also like, you can call it skin, you can call it [00:29:00] customization. You can play it how you want, right?[00:29:01] Fan-yun Sun: Yeah, exactly. And I think another thing that we really pointed out specific specifically in this blog is the programmability of it, right?[00:29:09] So what this means is that this render historically render is always a derivative of the game state, right? You're saying, oh, here's the game state, I'm rendering out a frame. But here I'm saying actually this render can be part of the gameplay loop. I can say something along the lines of, if upon getting 10.[00:29:26] Apples, I'm gonna, my weapon of choice, my bullet's gonna turn into apples. And that's, that's possible because we can say, we can basically dynamically have certain game state trigger the, the preconditions to the render such that the rendering is now part of the game loop too. One thing is to just say, okay, it's, it's, it's the appearance.[00:29:47] But the second thing is also to say there's these novel interactions that are possible because this render now has actually priors of the world.[00:29:57] swyx: It is up to the artist to figure out what to do with it.[00:29:59] Fan-yun Sun: It [00:30:00] is up to the creators. Yes.[00:30:01] swyx: Yeah.[00:30:01] Fan-yun Sun: And I also think that's actually another big argument that we're making and the reason that we're picking, taking the bet we're baking is that a lot of the times, whether it's for embody AI gaming, like you want a layer where human can inject their intentions.[00:30:15] So, for example, let's just say in the context of gaming, it's obviously like my creative intent, but maybe in the context of embodied ai, it's like, oh, like I take this foundational policy and I want to actually fine tune it to deploy in my house. So you want to almost say, inject, have a layer where human can say, oh, here's the distribution of things I want to create to achieve my goal.[00:30:35] And I think 3D graphics as it as it is today, is basic, the layer for people to say, Hey, what do I care about in this world? And it allows, basically human intent to be expressed in these worlds much more explicitly and distributionally as opposed to just saying, Hey, I'm gonna generate like, arbitrary.[00:30:54] And it's like just prompts,[00:30:55] swyx: it's one of those things where like, I think you, you're going to build up a series of models, right? [00:31:00] This is just one of, this is probably like the highest utility or heaviest, frequency one, I don't dunno what to call this. Where like you Yeah. You can immediately drop this in on any game and you don't need anything else that.[00:31:10] That you guys do. But, I, I could see, I could see that I think the, the human intent is something that people are not even used to because we're so used to static worlds or, worlds that just don't react, or, I don't know. It's, it, you're kind of blowing my mind right now with like, I'm, I wonder if you've talked to people at GDC Hmm.[00:31:27] And what are they gonna do with it?[00:31:30] Fan-yun Sun: Yeah. Now the stance that we take on this front is like, we're not gonna be more creative than our users to ship[00:31:35] swyx: it out.[00:31:35] Fan-yun Sun: Yeah. But we wanna make sure that we're building things in a way that really allows them to express their intent.[00:31:41] swyx: The thing that you said about, here's the distribution that I want.[00:31:45] I think text may be too low of a bandwidth to. To really demonstrate, because I, I, there, I'm, I'm probably just gonna want to drop in a bunch of, reference assets and then you can figure it out from[00:31:58] Vibhu: there. But you probably wanna do a, a mixture of [00:32:00] both, right? Like you throw in a few images. I wanted this style.[00:32:02] Yeah. I want it to look like this. So it, it's, it's a mixture, right?[00:32:05] Chris Manning: I, I think it's a mixture. I mean, yeah, I mean there's clearly a visual component of this, and it's not that, everything can be text. ‘cause of course you want to give a visual look, but there's also a massive amount of giving the overall picture of the look of the world and the behavior of things that you can express in a few words of text.[00:32:32] And it be very time consuming and difficult to do via visual means. So I think, yeah, you want a combination of both.[00:32:40] Evaluating World Models[00:32:40] Vibhu: So one question I kind of have is, how do we go about evaluating world models? So like, there's many axes, right? One is like, okay. I have preferences. How well do we adhere to prompts? One is the simulation.[00:32:50] One is like do things, is there core logic that's broken? So coming from we know how to evaluate diffusion, there's fidelity, there's [00:33:00] stuff like that. But what are some of the challenges that most people probably aren't thinking about?[00:33:04] Fan-yun Sun: Yeah, I think this is like a great question and probably one of the hardest questions in role models because like, I think it always comes back to what are you building this role model for?[00:33:13] And depending on your end goal and purpose, the evaluation should defer. So in the context of games, then the most direct way of measuring is how much behind are people actually spending in this world that you create? And if your goal is to say, for example, in the context that we just talked about, like, hey, deploying, deploying action in body, a agent, then your, your end.[00:33:33] Metric is then, okay, after training in these worlds that you generate how robust it is to when you actually deploy to the target environment. But then, it's, it's hard to measure these end metrics. So today people have like these proxy metrics that I call that basically try to measure what we really care about, which is the end metrics, but then frankly it's different for every use case.[00:33:57] Yeah,[00:33:57] Vibhu: which seems like quite a challenge, right? Like in [00:34:00] in language models or video models. Image models, your benchmarks are proxies, right? People aren't actually asking instruction, following tool use questions. They're proxies of how well it will do downstream. But for this, so like, should teams, should companies have their own individual benchmarks outside of games?[00:34:16] If you think of stuff like, okay, video production, movies, stuff like that, that also want to use world models. Should, should they sort of internalize like. Their own proxy. Is this something you guys do? Where, where does that connect[00:34:28] Chris Manning: go? Yeah, I think this whole space is extremely difficult as things are emerging now.[00:34:35] And I mean, it's not only for world models, I think it's for everything including text-based models, right? ‘cause in the early days it seemed very easy to have good benchmarks ‘cause we could do things like question answering benchmarks and could you answer the question based on these documents and the various other kinds of, do pieces of logical reasoning or math.[00:34:58] But again, these are sort of. [00:35:00] And there were sort of visual equivalents of things like object recognition, right? For these small component tasks. These days so much of what people are wanting to do also with language models is nothing like that, right? You're wanting to, have an interaction with the language model and get some recommendations about which backpack would be best for you for your trip in Europe next month.[00:35:25] And it's not the same kind of thing, right? And it's not so easy to come up with a benchmark as to does this large language model give you an effective interaction for guiding you in a good way for shopping, right? So, and it's the same problem with these world models. So if we take the game design case, well success is that a game designer can.[00:35:57] Produce what they are [00:36:00] imagining in a reasonable amount of time. And that's really the kind of macro task. That's a very hard thing to turn into a benchmark and I think a lot of this is actually going to turn into people walking, walking with their feet. Right? I mean, I guess that's what's happening, at the large language model level, right?[00:36:23] When people are choosing to use, GPT five or Gemini or clawed, individuals are trying out these different models and deciding, oh, I like the kind of answers that GT five gives me, or no, I feel like I get more accurate detail from Claude, right?[00:36:43] Vibhu: It's a lot of[00:36:43] Chris Manning: vitech, a lot of people just using it.[00:36:45] It's vibe checking. I realize that, but it's actually whether. People feel it's giving them utility in what they want. Right.[00:36:52] Vibhu: And the the interesting thing there is like a lot of people prefer the visual, right? This looks pretty, which is not the objective of what this is [00:37:00] for, right? It's if a, if a game designer is working on something, they care about the game engine, right?[00:37:04] The state, it's, it can look whatever. You can fix that up later. Or you can have a really good game state and you can quickly edit it to 20. 20 different versions, like Keep State,[00:37:14] Chris Manning: right?[00:37:14] Vibhu: So[00:37:14] Chris Manning: that's a really important distinction, for and for speaking to Moon Lake strength, right? So, yeah, great visuals are lovely to look at for a few seconds, but gains are really all about the concept, the game play.[00:37:33] And a lot of the time that doesn't actually even require great visuals. I mean, there are just lots of very successful games which have relatively primitive visuals, and there are other games where people have spent millions producing photo realistic, visuals, and the game sucks, right? So, keeping those two axes apart is really important in thinking about what's important in a [00:38:00] world model for different uses.[00:38:02] swyx: This conversation is reminding me of some game review and fiction discussions I've, had in my sort of non-AI related life. Some, for some people might know Brandon Sanderson, who's a very famous, fiction author, had, is is a big game reviewer. And he, he's a big fan of video games where you change one thing about a normal what you might assume about, about the world.[00:38:22] For example, Baba is you, I don't know if you might have come across that, where like the rules change as you play the game. And also like where, you can do things like reverse time selectively or like change gravity selectively. And I think this is also reminds, reminds me of other kinds of world models that are created by authors.[00:38:38] Where Ted Chang is, is my typical example where he'll take the world that, you know today, but change one thing about it and, but then create a consistent world based on that. Which is long-winded answer of me to, of. For me to say is it's it easy to create alternative roles that don't exist, but you change one thing and then let's, let's run a whole bunch of people through it to see if it works.[00:38:58] Chris Manning: My first dance will [00:39:00] be, that seems a lot easier and more conceivable to do using Techn technology like Moon Lakes than with some of the other world models out there, where the sun can actually make it happen. I'll let him give a second answer.[00:39:15] swyx: If I guess for you, you're constrained by the game engine tool, right?[00:39:18] Like at the end of the day, that's the, that's the thought, partner that you have. If I ask for something where like, if it never is allowed to reverse time or if gravity only ever works one way, then well that's it. But sometimes gravity might change,[00:39:33] Fan-yun Sun: but it's a lot easier to change with code as opposed to a model that is learned primarily on data of.[00:39:42] Real world and virtual worlds that are, I guess, like for example, junior, like there's actually trained on a lot of real world data and a lot of virtual gaming data, and it's hard to say maybe it's easier to say, okay, I wanna change the visuals in like the time period of, of the world. Like, you can't change gravity, for [00:40:00] example.[00:40:00] Vibhu: I feel like you can to light bounds, right? Everything comes down to like, code is a better way to execute it, but the models aren't that diverse and creative, right? You can say, okay, make gravity slower. It can do that, but it's limited to your representation of how you text it out, right? Like they're, they're only gonna do a few iterations, whereas programmatically, if there's a game engine under the hood, you can kind of go wild, right?[00:40:22] So one of the, I dunno, one of the limitations of most models is that they're very overtrained to one style. Right. And extracting diversity is pretty difficult. At least that's something we've seen.[00:40:35] Fan-yun Sun: I mean, are there examples you have in mind where you Existing models? Yeah. Like it would be easier to do that's not using code.[00:40:43] Certain types of creative intent or like transition state transitions,[00:40:47] swyx: Clipping, other models, other wo models are very good at clipping through things. Clipping my, my, my legs clipping through a rock because it's, it's just, it's just bad. [00:41:00] Like, you would have to struggle very hard with your stuff to actually make that happen.[00:41:04] Which I think is maybe a topic that you actually prepared on, Gian Splatting versus, the other stuff.[00:41:09] Vibhu: Yeah. Yeah. It's just for those not super familiar, right? There's a, there's gian splatting, there is diffusion. Like what works, what scales up. I feel like in February when Soro one came out the blog post was literally titled like,[00:41:21] swyx: you bring it up.[00:41:22] You never know.[00:41:23] Vibhu: World, world, video generation models are world simulators. It's super bitter lesson pilled. Yeah, emer, a lot of it is emergence, right? So, not to go through their blog post, basically their whole thing was as you scale up all this consistency, all this stuff just kind of solves, it's a very simple premise, right?[00:41:41] They just scaled up, diffusion, and from there, this is, this is Feb 2024, how much can we, it's already been two years, which is basically five years. How much more in AI time do we need to just scale up or, or do we hit a data cap? But I think we already talked about this a lot, right? Like this is back to the beginning discussion of what's [00:42:00] appropriate for the time.[00:42:01] And that seems like your approach, right?[00:42:03] Fan-yun Sun: Yeah. The point I'm trying to make is that they're very many, many different types of world simulators and like having a world simulator that can produce pixel coherency is very, very useful for games and, marketing and all these things, but it's not as useful as people think when it comes to causal reasoning.[00:42:25] When it comes to embodied ai. Yeah, like it this title is true. We're not saying that it's, it's like, not a great world simulator, but actually in the blog that we, we, we, we wrote, the bet is more so that there are gonna be disproportionately large share of value of real world tasks or, and virtual tasks where high resolution pixel fidelity is not needed.[00:42:47] Yes. Video models have their values.[00:42:50] swyx: Yeah. This is at the absolute limit of my physics understanding, but one example that comes to mind is basically having to solve like ba the equivalent of a three [00:43:00] body problem in a deterministic Well, where the video models, which is approximated good enough. Yeah.[00:43:08] Right. Like there's, there's some point at which your approach kind of runs into like the you now have to simulate the world. Please, thank you very much. And like you're trying to do that, but only to the extent that the game engine lets you and like game engines cannot do some things.[00:43:23] Fan-yun Sun: Yeah, no, I mean, I think the interesting or more technical question here actually is where do you draw the boundary between.[00:43:32] What's handled with, let's say, diffusion prior and what, when? What's handled with symbolic priors?[00:43:38] swyx: Yes.[00:43:38] Fan-yun Sun: Okay.[00:43:38] swyx: Okay.[00:43:39] Fan-yun Sun: Right. Let's go there. Because this, this boundary can actually be fluid. Like I think like maybe what you're trying to get at is like, okay, people are saying pixel prior, everything. But what we're saying is, okay, there's a boundary that we draw where this is where we think provides the most economical value for the domains and things that we care about today.[00:43:59] [00:44:00] And I actually do think, and it's something that we do internally all the time, which is like, okay, given new equations that we learn or new elements of the world and that we, we learn, or maybe some other knowledge that we acquire in the process of developing the models. Should we still be maintaining this line exactly as it is today?[00:44:22] Or should we move it a little bit left or a little bit right? Right. Like sometimes that we realize that, oh, like maybe customers or, or folks like want certain things that are better handled with preop pryor as opposed to, symbolic prior than,[00:44:34] swyx: yeah. Your, your skin thing is a, is a example moving it, right.[00:44:37] Yeah.[00:44:37] Or left. Yeah,[00:44:37] Fan-yun Sun: exactly.[00:44:38] swyx: I dunno what the, the left right is.[00:44:39] Fan-yun Sun: Yeah, yeah, yeah. No the, the model.[00:44:42] swyx: Yes.[00:44:42] Fan-yun Sun: Actually we have a few iterations of them. They're actually at slightly different[00:44:45] swyx: I know boundaries. You should, you should do that. That's a cool dimension to show.[00:44:49] Fan-yun Sun: Yeah.[00:44:50] swyx: Is quantum mechanics the diffusion prior of our world?[00:44:55] Right. It's like that's the boundary of classical mechanics versus quantum. Right? Like, that's it. At one [00:45:00] point God plays dice and the other point doesn't.[00:45:02] Fan-yun Sun: I dunno if Chris, you wanna say it, but I think, I think generally I feel like physics is better with symbol P priors.[00:45:08] Chris Manning: Even quantum physics.[00:45:09] Fan-yun Sun: Even quantum physics.[00:45:11] swyx: Yeah. This is starts against to, MLST territory is, is what I call it, where, he, he likes to get philosophical. We, we we're quite friendly.[00:45:18] Vibhu: I mean, we need to get, we need to get singularity. I heard some of that.[00:45:23] swyx: No, no, I think that is actually really helpful and man, I just want you to productize this like, as a product guy, I'm just like, oh, also[00:45:32] Vibhu: a gamer, I[00:45:33] swyx: wanna, it's like a researcher, like, it's cool.[00:45:35] Like this is a, the theoretical, like you have a very good, I don't know, like the way of thinking about these things, but I just wanna see you like, express it. I do think like your fundamentally things when, when you leave open new tools, like, okay, use, use human intent to incorporate it into how you render.[00:45:52] Artists are gonna have to take like two to three years to figure out what to do with this. And you just don't know.[00:45:57] Chris Manning: Right. But I think, this is, [00:46:00] gives a much more approachable and controllable world for the society, which is the beauty, the beauty of, NLP, that that will enable it to be adopted and used.[00:46:10] And we are very hopeful about that. Yeah,[00:46:13] Fan-yun Sun: yeah. Yeah. I mean, we are, we are very focused actually on commercialization in the sense that like we do, we do really believe in the data flywheel app approach. Yeah. Where, we put this in the hands of the creators and the users and then they will teach us when, what capability our model should improve.[00:46:27] And that's why we are, we are actually, like products and beta[00:46:31] swyx: Yeah. Focusing on gaming. What, what's like the adjacent thing to gaming[00:46:34] Fan-yun Sun: embody adjacent, basically. So maybe we can, we can I'll maybe start with where we see the platform in three years. Yeah. Which is like, okay. The users would tell us what they want to achieve.[00:46:45] The end goal could be, Hey, I just, I wanna make something to teach my kids the value of humility. Or it could be, Hey, I wanna fine tune my, drones to be really good at rescue situations. I could be vacuum robots. I want to like train [00:47:00] my manipulation or like vacuum robot to be very robust to my office, right?[00:47:04] But it's like, whatever it is, scenario robust to[00:47:06] swyx: my office[00:47:07] Fan-yun Sun: or like navigate very robustly in my office. But then it's like, whatever end goal that you want, our role model will say, okay, given what you want to achieve, let me generate a distribution of environments such that I can train and evaluate whatever it is you want.[00:47:24] Yeah. Right. Maybe for the purpose of games, it's just the end simulation and that's the end product for certain policies. It's like I can train it within these environments and then help you see where your policy is failing or not. Yeah. And then, so I think,[00:47:37] swyx: so in that case, much more of a training tool.[00:47:40] Than in other training[00:47:41] Vibhu: evaluation? Both. Right?[00:47:43] swyx: Sure. Same. Same thing.[00:47:43] Fan-yun Sun: Yeah, same thing. I think it's just this role model that allows people to train any policy that can act in any multimodal environments.[00:47:51] swyx: Would it be harder to reward hack? Is there an angle here where it is harder to reward hack? Like it's just, I'll just put it generally because I think that's a, that's obviously a key [00:48:00] problem that a lot of people face when in training agents in these environments, and I don't know, can you solve it?[00:48:07] Chris Manning: I think not necessarily. To the extent that there's a mis specified reward that. It seems like it could be hacked in a more symbolic world or in a more pixel based world. I dunno if Sun's got any thoughts, but I don't think that's really being solved.[00:48:26] swyx: The other thing that comes to mind is just you could just build a better sawa as a video generator model, right?[00:48:31] Because then you, you would move the diffusion, side a bit more further to the right. I think if I got the directionality correct. And that's it.[00:48:40] Vibhu: It's better on domains, right? Like on consistency over now, or for sure it exists versus something doesn't, right.[00:48:46] Chris Manning: So[00:48:46] swyx: yeah. Yeah. Is[00:48:49] Vibhu: is a question more like, like[00:48:51] swyx: I'm just riffing on like, how do you, what can you build, you know?[00:48:54] Oh, with the stuff that you have. I do think that the minor, the academic does go immediately to training [00:49:00] and in eval evaluation, but like art tends to take unusual directions. Like you might end up,[00:49:06] Chris Manning: okay. Yeah. But the question is, can you use this piece of software to develop compelling gameplay and. I don't think you can take SOAR and produce compelling gameplay, right?[00:49:19] If you want to have a world that you can wander around in a bit, you are good. But what are your abilities to have gameplay mechanics implemented the way you'd like them to be and to have things stay, with the long-term history of your gameplay that influences future actions. I think there's just nothing there for that.[00:49:39] swyx: Yeah, I do tend to agree. I, I'm just trying to sort of test the boundaries. I would also make the observation that as AAA games industry has developed the line between what is a movie and what is a game has blurred. And you, you, you do end up basically producing a two hour movie as part of your game.[00:49:57] Fan-yun Sun: No, honestly, there, there's so many actually [00:50:00] applications in adjacent markets that our world model can go into. Yeah. But yeah, it, it's sort of fun to riff, riff on. Although on the execution side, we we, we need to stay focused with like, okay, what are the capabilities we want to unlock over time?[00:50:11] And there's a roadmap for that. But yeah, if we're just riffing on sort of like the possibilities, I feel like, whether it's endless Yeah, it's like classic[00:50:18] swyx: and the embedding for a possibility and endless in my mind, it's very close. Yeah. I do wanna, focus on one, like weird choice. I, I don't know if it's weird.[00:50:28] Maybe I'm, I got something here. Audio, right? You could have just said no audio And audio in my mind has a lot of recursion, whereas in video you can just do recasting and that's much computationally much simpler. Audio just seems way harder. I don't know if you wanna just comment on just the special 3D audio.[00:50:46] Problem. Did you really have to do it? I guess you do to be immersive, but like a lot of people do treat it as like, well, you just stick a, a tt S model on top of[00:50:57] Vibhu: Well, there's a lot more to game audio than [00:51:00] just speech. Right. It's not just[00:51:01] swyx: tts. Yeah. Tts. S Fxt, GM Spatial in my mind Echoes[00:51:06] Chris Manning: Yeah.[00:51:06] swyx: And reflections.[00:51:07] And I, I don't even know what's, what else? I don't know what, what other problems in this space.[00:51:13] Fan-yun Sun: Yeah, I think this point like the, it's sort of a more, more pointing to the benefits of using an game engine as a tool that's available to the model, right? Because like part of the spatial audio is from the code that is underlying the simulation.[00:51:32] And while we do give our model access to other types of audio models as. Tools.[00:51:39] swyx: None of them would be spatial, I think.[00:51:41] Fan-yun Sun: But that's exactly sort of more 0.2. We're giving our model an abstraction or a suite of tools such that it's able to achieve that. And you can argue that sort of spatial is like a, like a emergence out of the, the tools that we and abstraction that we provide to the agents.[00:51:59] And I think that's the beauty of [00:52:00] this, this, this approach is like there's a lot of things kind of like how human's built technology and they're like Lego blocks that build on top of each other. And it's the same thing here. There's gonna be things that sort of just sort of emerges from being able to put these things together in like combinatorially interesting ways,[00:52:14] Chris Manning: right?[00:52:15] So this integrated audio model exploits the understanding and semantics of the Moon Lake world, right? And whereas in general for the Gen AI video models. There's no actual integration across to audio at all, right? That someone might stick some music or stick a soundscape or whatever else on top of their video.[00:52:44] So it's not a silent video, but they're in no way connected into a consistent world model. And there's nothing that's okay. An action is happening in the video. Therefore there should be a sound that's [00:53:00] coming from this part of the visual field.[00:53:03] swyx: Yeah.[00:53:03] Vibhu: Is that different than Sora too? Does it not have audio?[00:53:06] Not to say it's not like[00:53:08] swyx: amazing[00:53:08] Vibhu: isn't a spatial[00:53:09] swyx: audio.[00:53:09] Vibhu: It doesn't,[00:53:10] swyx: no. I've played around it with it enough. It just sounds like someone put an 11 laps voice on top of it and just tried to do the lip sync.[00:53:18] Vibhu: Oh, yeah. I've seen, okay. Generate a dog at the beach and reactions to big wave and move[00:53:23] swyx: around.[00:53:23] It's definitely like, so have the dog, have the dog move away from camera and see if the, the song goes down. It doesn't. ‘Cause they don't have facial audio.[00:53:32] Fan-yun Sun: We do want to basically like we, our moral model, like the one we're training is basically towards the goal of having a combined latent representation across all these different modalities.[00:53:42] Right? Such that it can like reason across these different modalities. So for example, if I close my eyes and like you play a video, you play a sound of like a car skidding away from me. I almost can like, visually extrapolate that trajectory in my mind. And I think that type of capability, we want our model to be able to reason, right?[00:53:59] And that's the reason that [00:54:00] we're sort of taking this multimodal reasoning approach. It's like we want this combine late in space that can[00:54:05] swyx: Yeah. Oh, you said late in space. We like that. Here we have to play the, the bell Every time that someone says late in space, no, you gotta train daredevil one. Where you, you, you, it's only audio, but you have to work out.[00:54:15] Where everything is.[00:54:19] Cool. I I think that that was, that was about it for our Moon Lake coverage. I do think that we have like a couple of, Chris Madden questions on, on IR and, just any, any other sort of attention topics or n NLP topics.[00:54:31] Vibhu: Okay.[00:54:31] swyx: Go ahead.[00:54:32] Chris Manning's Journey: From NLP to World Models[00:54:32] Vibhu: Well, no, I mean, yeah, it's just fun. We talked a bit about how you guys met, but you basically, you, you were like the godfather of NLP per se, right?[00:54:39] You spent the whole career from early embeddings, early early attention. You did 2015 attention for machine translation, everything. You, you had information retrieval, so RAG before rag, we just wanna shout that out and admire a lot of that. Right? So what prompted the switch over to world models?[00:54:56] How, how'd all that come about?[00:54:58] Chris Manning: To some answer it [00:55:00] is, the enthusiasms and creativity of students, but there's a bit of a history there, right? So, yeah. So clearly most of my career has been doing stuff with language and how I got into research was thinking, ah, this is just so amazing how humans can produce speech and understand each other in real time.[00:55:21] And somehow they managed to learn languages from their kids. How could this possibly happen? And so, yeah, starting off I was very focused on language, but as it sort of got into the 2000 and tens, I started, going, I'd been working on question answering, and then I started to get, interest in visual question answering.[00:55:42] And that was an area where it was very noticeable. That the visual understanding was bad. Right. These were the days when like, it sort of seemed like there's almost no visual [00:56:00] understanding. You were just getting answers that came from priors. So, if you asked how many people are sitting at the table, it'd always answer two regardless of how many, how many people you could see in the picture.[00:56:11] And so it seemed like, oh, these models actually aren't able to get semantic information outta

Packy McCormick, founder of Not Boring and Not Boring Capital, joins Kevin Frazier, Director of the AI Innovation and Law Program at the University of Texas School of Law and a Senior Fellow at the Abundance Institute, to discuss the power of narratives in tech, the intersection of investing and policy, and what it means to build frameworks for the future in an age of rapid technological change. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

a16z cofounders Marc Andreessen and Ben Horowitz join a16z general partner Erik Torenberg and Not Boring founder Packy McCormick for a conversation on how the media and information ecosystem has changed over the past decade. The discussion breaks down the shift toward a more open and decentralized speech environment, the rise of writer- and creator-led platforms like Substack, and the erosion of centralized media gatekeepers. Marc and Ben also tie these dynamics to their investing worldview, outlining how supply-driven markets, major technological step changes, and reputation-driven venture platforms shape outcomes in the AI era.Timecodes: 00:00  Introduction00:46  How the media ecosystem is changing4:20  Why a16z invested in Substack6:28  Supply-driven markets and new content creation8:07  Why writers felt trapped by media companies10:09  Databricks and the 10x cloud multiplier13:58  Long-form podcasting proves demand15:40  What the new fund signals about the future16:24  AI as a universal problem solver18:49  Why market sizing is broken20:45  Go-to-market, policy, and platform power22:37  Turning inventors into confident CEOs25:58  Borrowing power to scale faster27:29  Building dreamers, not killing dreams30:46  Reputation as a core competitive advantage35:57  Taking arrows in public38:56  Avoiding big company failure modes40:39  Autonomous teams inside a16z41:54  Venture capital as the last job46:01  Why intangibles matter more than ever48:17  Original thinkers with charisma50:06  Why Zoomers are differentResources: https://www.notboring.co/p/a16z-the-power-brokershttps://www.a16z.news/p/firm-fundFollow Marc Andreessen on X: https://twitter.com/pmarcaFollow Ben Horowitz on X: https://twitter.com/bhorowitzFollow Erik Torenberg on X: https://twitter.com/eriktorenbergFollow Packy McCormick on X: https://twitter.com/packyM Stay Updated:If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to like, subscribe, and share with your friends!Find a16z on X: https://twitter.com/a16zFind a16z on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/a16zListen to the a16z Podcast on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/5bC65RDvs3oxnLyqqvkUYXListen to the a16z Podcast on Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/a16z-podcast/id842818711Follow our host: https://twitter.com/eriktorenberg](https://x.com/eriktorenbergPlease note that the content here is for informational purposes only; should NOT be taken as legal, business, tax, or investment advice or be used to evaluate any investment or security; and is not directed at any investors or potential investors in any a16z fund. a16z and its affiliates may maintain investments in the companies discussed. For more details please see a16z.com/disclosures.  Stay Updated:Find a16z on XFind a16z on LinkedInListen to the a16z Show on SpotifyListen to the a16z Show on Apple PodcastsFollow our host: https://twitter.com/eriktorenberg Please note that the content here is for informational purposes only; should NOT be taken as legal, business, tax, or investment advice or be used to evaluate any investment or security; and is not directed at any investors or potential investors in any a16z fund. a16z and its affiliates may maintain investments in the companies discussed. For more details please see a16z.com/disclosures. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

BATMAN is NOT BORING! And people think James Gunn specifically said he was due to rage bait titles. We talk about that as well as the leaked Avengers Doomsday trailers, and I give my full review of Avatar Fire and Ash.

Crypto Is Boring, For Now. So Let's Talk Precious Metals. #Crypto #Cryptocurrency #podcast #BasicCryptonomics #Bitcoin #Gold #Silver #Palladium #Platinum #Copper Website: ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.CryptoTalkRadio.net⁠⁠⁠⁠ Facebook: ⁠⁠⁠⁠@ThisIsCTR⁠⁠⁠⁠ Discord:⁠⁠⁠⁠ @CryptoTalkRadio⁠⁠⁠⁠ Chapters (00:00:01) - Crypto Talk Radio(00:01:54) - Bitcoin: Middling, but Not Boring(00:05:26) - Will There Be a Supply Crunch on Copper?(00:08:12) - Precious Metals(00:13:54) - Crypto Money: Rare Metals as a Collection Item(00:21:07) - HELOCs and the Fed(00:27:13) - Consider precious metals

Jay Allen is back for Whip ‘Em Out Wednesday with a transmission from the trenches of culture, leadership, and illusion. Today's main story digs into the real foundation of most organizations (hint: it's not safety), how values and priorities get mixed up, and why safety often ends up being a cost center rather than a core driver. He also previews next week's live broadcast from Banff, dives into the media frenzy over Pope Francis's funeral, and breaks down everything from AI-powered browser battles to Joe Exotic's new prison marriage. Plus: loneliness statistics, teen heroism in Kentucky, and why “Safe, Not Boring” is more than just a shirt.

Sun, 20 Apr 2025 21:00:00 GMT http://relay.fm/mpu/793 http://relay.fm/mpu/793 Accurate, Not Boring 793 David Sparks and Stephen Hackett On this feedback episode, the guys revisit iCloud.com access and Advanced Data Protection, both make confessions about recent setup changes, and answer a bunch of listener questions. On this feedback episode, the guys revisit iCloud.com access and Advanced Data Protection, both make confessions about recent setup changes, and answer a bunch of listener questions. clean 5083 On this feedback episode, the guys revisit iCloud.com access and Advanced Data Protection, both make confessions about recent setup changes, and answer a bunch of listener questions. This episode of Mac Power Users is sponsored by: Squarespace: Save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain using code MPU. Indeed: Join more than 3.5 million businesses worldwide using Indeed to hire great talent fast. Links and Show Notes: Sign up for the MPU email newsletter and join the MPU forums. More Power Users: Ad-free episodes with regular bonus segments Submit Feedback Mac Power Users #791: Exploring iCloud.com - Relay Manage web access to your iCloud data - Apple Support iCloud data security overview - Apple Support How to turn on Advanced Data Protection for iCloud - Apple Support Protect your web browsing with iCloud Private Relay on iPhone - Apple Support MPU Forums UNAS Pro - Ubiquiti Arq Backblaze B2 Screen Studio Charles Mingus - Wikipedia Dizzy Gillespie - Wikipedia Charlie Parker - Wikipedia Siri Seems Like a Real Mess – 512 Pixels NYT: Budget Constraints Blamed for Apple's AI Woes – 512 Pixels Foodnoms Nutrition Tracker Yuka Stelo Wearable Glucose Biosensor Sleep++ How Not to Diet - Amazon.com Fantasy Hike Bend Pedometer++ Go cycling with Apple Watch - Apple Support Out Front Bike Mount V2 | Peak Design Official Site Fitbod Camera G5 Flex - Ubiquiti Netw

Azeem Azhar welcomes Packy McCormick, founder and investor at Not Boring, to discuss the current tech landscape. In this episode you'll hear: (01:50) What Packy got wrong (and right) about Web3 (10:17) The shift to "know thyself and know thyself-nots" (14:28) Europe just woke up (18:46) Bits and atoms are cool again (21:10) London airport shutdown reveals a deeper challenge (23:32) A new kind of home energy infrastructure (29:28) A theory on Eric Schmidt's new CEO role (34:08) What's the role of nuclear in a solar + battery world? (40:33) The coming tech boom Our new show This was originally recorded for "Friday with Azeem Azhar", a new show that takes place every Friday at 9am PT and 12pm ET. You can tune in through my Substack linked below. The format is experimental and we'd love your feedback, so feel free to comment or email your thoughts to our team at live@exponentialview.co. Packy's links: Substack: https://www.notboring.co/ Twitter/X: https://x.com/packyM Azeem's links: Substack: https://www.exponentialview.co/ Website: https://www.azeemazhar.com/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/azhar Twitter/X: https://x.com/azeem Produced by supermix.io and EPIIPLUS1 Ltd

One of the most influential voices in tech explains how AI helps him write and invest.This episode is sponsored by Create. If you want to maximize your gains, both with your body and with ChatGPT, try creatinine gummies from Create. Place your order through this link to get a 30 percent discount: https://trycreate.co/products/creatine-monohydrate-gummies-270-count?discount=every24Packy McCormick's job is to find, articulate, and invest behind the next big idea.He writes Not Boring, a newsletter that analyzes technology and startups for 200,000 subscribers every week. He also invests in early stage companies through his fund Not Boring Capital and is an advisor at a16z crypto.I spent an hour with him to understand how he's baked AI into the way he thinks, writes, and invests. We get into: How he uses AI to understand dense concepts and refine his arguments His thesis around vertically integrated businesses being the future of tech How Packy uses Claude Projects to edit his newsletter How he makes interactive graphics that represent concepts from his essays The tools Packy uses to research, write, and edit Not Boring When he thinks the next crypto bull run will take place We also use Projects to build an AI tool that grades Packy's essays live on the show.This is a must-watch for writers, investors, and anyone trying to understand the cutting edge of technology.If you found this episode interesting, please like, subscribe, comment, and share!Want even more?Sign up for Every to unlock our ultimate guide to prompting ChatGPT here: https://every.ck.page/ultimate-guide-to-prompting-chatgpt. It's usually only for paying subscribers, but you can get it here for free.To hear more from Dan Shipper:Subscribe to Every: https://every.to/subscribeFollow him on X: https://twitter.com/danshipperTimestamps:00:00:00 - Teaser00:01:24 - Introduction00:02:40 - Packy's thesis about the future of technology00:07:42 - What Packy quick takes on your crypto portfolio00:14:31 - Use LLMs to validate your understanding of complex concepts00:18:26 - How Packy used Claude Projects to write an essay he published recently00:24:00 - Packy's process to make interactive visual graphics for his essays00:31:10 - How to use AI to be thorough in your research00:35:04 - How Packy uses Claude to edit his writing00:36:44 - The tools Packy uses to create his newsletter00:44:12 - Using Claude Projects to make a tool that grades Packy's essaysLinks to resources mentioned in the episode:Packy McCormick: https://twitter.com/packyMPacky's newsletter, Not Boring: https://www.notboring.co/Packy's fund, Not Boring Capital: https://www.notboring.co/p/introducing-not-boring-capitalOne of Packy's first essays, about natively integrated companies: https://www.packym.com/natively-integrated-companiesAnduril, the company Packy thinks is an example of a Techno-industrial: https://www.anduril.com/Packy's portfolio company that's integration crypto into its product: https://v2.oncyber.io/The interactive tool Packy made for a recent newsletter: https://goventvectorsum.replit.app/ for https://www.notboring.co/p/the-american-millenniumPacky's essay about America's tolerance for risk: https://www.notboring.co/p/riskophiliaPacky's essays about Blackbird: https://www.notboring.co/p/blackbird

On episode 142 of The Compound and Friends, Michael Batnick and Downtown Josh Brown are joined by Packy McCormick, founder of Not Boring, to discuss: the AI space, tech spending, the venture capital landscape, defense tech, what's next for Sam Bankman-Fried, and much more! This episode is sponsored by Public. Visit https://public.com/ to learn more! Sign up for The Compound newsletter and never miss out: https://www.thecompoundnews.com/subscribe Check out the latest in financial blogger fashion at The Compound shop: https://www.idontshop.com Investing involves the risk of loss. This podcast is for informational purposes only and should not be or regarded as personalized investment advice or relied upon for investment decisions. Michael Batnick and Josh Brown are employees of Ritholtz Wealth Management and may maintain positions in the securities discussed in this video. All opinions expressed by them are solely their own opinion and do not reflect the opinion of Ritholtz Wealth Management. The Compound Media, Incorporated, an affiliate of Ritholtz Wealth Management, receives payment from various entities for advertisements in affiliated podcasts, blogs and emails. Inclusion of such advertisements does not constitute or imply endorsement, sponsorship or recommendation thereof, or any affiliation therewith, by the Content Creator or by Ritholtz Wealth Management or any of its employees. For additional advertisement disclaimers see here https://ritholtzwealth.com/advertising-disclaimers. Investments in securities involve the risk of loss. Any mention of a particular security and related performance data is not a recommendation to buy or sell that security. The information provided on this website (including any information that may be accessed through this website) is not directed at any investor or category of investors and is provided solely as general information. Obviously nothing on this channel should be considered as personalized financial advice or a solicitation to buy or sell any securities. See our disclosures here: https://ritholtzwealth.com/podcast-youtube-disclosures/ Options are not suitable for all investors and carry significant risk. Option investors can rapidly lose the value of their investment in a short period of time and incur permanent loss by expiration date. Certain complex options strategies carry additional risk. There are additional costs associated with option strategies that call for multiple purchases and sales of options, such as spreads, straddles, among others, as compared with a single option trade. Prior to buying or selling an option, investors must read and understand the “Characteristics and Risks of Standardized Options”, also known as the options disclosure document (ODD) which can be found at: www.theocc.com/company-information/documents-and-archives/options-disclosure-document Supporting documentation for any claims will be furnished upon request. If you are enrolled in our Options Order Flow Rebate Program, The exact rebate will depend on the specifics of each transaction and will be previewed for you prior to submitting each trade. This rebate will be deducted from your cost to place the trade and will be reflected on your trade confirmation. Order flow rebates are not available for non-options transactions. To learn more, see our Fee Schedule, Order Flow Rebate FAQ, and Order Flow Rebate Program Terms & Conditions. Options can be risky and are not suitable for all investors. See the Characteristics and Risks of Standardized Options to learn more. All investing involves the risk of loss, including loss of principal. Brokerage services for US-listed, registered securities, options and bonds in a self-directed account are offered by Open to the Public Investing, Inc., member FINRA & SIPC. See public.com/#disclosures-main for more information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Episode Description: Elliot Hershberg, a computational biologist, writer, and investor, joins Karl and Erum to explore the fascinating intersection of technology, biology, and philosophy. ​They explore the power of technology-based newsletters, the economics of fermentation, the role of AI in biology, and the future of biotech. The conversation raises thought-provoking questions about data reliability in AI-driven platforms and the need for cautious optimism in embracing new technologies. With insights into the minds of VCs and the potential implications of building a sentient AI, this episode offers a captivating glimpse into the exciting advancements and possibilities in the world of biotech! Grow Everything brings the bioeconomy to life. Hosts Karl Schmieder and Erum Azeez Khan share stories and interview the leaders and influencers changing the world by growing everything. Biology is the oldest technology. And it can be engineered. What are we growing? Learn more at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠www.messaginglab.com/groweverything⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Chapters: 00:00:00 - Synbiobeta Week: The Pulse of Biotech Innovation 00:01:12 - Microbiome Frontiers: From Netflix Documentaries to Real-World Applications 00:04:27 - Algae Chronicles: A Dive into Nature's Ingenious Endosymbionts 00:06:18 - The ChatGPT Phenomenon in Biotech: Conversing with Elliot Hirschberg 00:08:57 - Elliot Hershberg: Penning the Path from Literature to Biotech Breakthroughs 00:11:42 - Navigating the Biotech Labyrinth: Unraveling Complexities 00:15:26 - Biotech Ethos: Pondering the Universe Through a Biological Lens 00:17:58 - Elliot's Odyssey: Crafting 'Not Boring' Narratives in Biotech Finance 00:21:07 - The Biotech Think Tank: Cultivating Ideas 00:24:18 - BioTech Crossroads: Envisioning the Fusion of Life Sciences and Tech 00:27:28 - Quantum Biology: Unveiling the Microscopic Mysteries 00:29:31 - Machine Learning: The New Catalyst in Biological Discovery 00:31:31 - Blueprint for Biotech Trailblazers: Nurturing Innovation 00:32:52 - Venture Capital Visions: Sowing Seeds in Fertile Biotech Grounds 00:35:37 - Newsletters: The DNA of Biotech Knowledge Sharing 00:37:43 - Biomanufacturing Horizons: Shaping the Fabric of Future Production 00:42:38 - AI: The New Author and Architect in Biotech 00:45:39 - Biotech Forecasts: Charting the Uncharted 00:51:06 - Biotech Chronicles: Penning the Progress and Profits Episode Links: Not Boring Capital (link) Elliot Hershberg on LinkedIn The Century of Biology (link) Atomic AI (link) The Emperor of All Maladies by Siddhartha Mukherjee  (link) The Gene: An Intimate History by Siddhartha Mukherjee (link) The Song of the Cell by Siddhartha Mukherjee (link) Genentech: The Beginnings of Biotech by Sally Smith Hughes (link) For Blood and Money: Billionaires, Biotech, and the Quest for a Blockbuster Drug by Nathan Vardi (link) Molecular Biology Of The Cell by Bruce Alberts et al (link) Get $300 off ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Synbiobeta tickets⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ (May 6-9 in San Jose, CA) using promo code: Grow Everything Topics Covered:  colors, textile dyes, fabrics, fashion, bioreactors, synthetic biology, synbio, bioengineering, organism engineering, microbiology Have a question or comment? Message us here: Text or Call (804) 505-5553 ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Instagram⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ / ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠TikTok⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ / ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Twitter⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ / ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠LinkedIn⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ / ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Youtube⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ / ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠GrowEverything website⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Email: groweverything@messaginglab.com Support here: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Patreon⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Music by: Nihilore Production by: Amplafy Media --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/messaginglab/message

Packy McCormick is known for his unique insights into technology and startups. As the founder of Not Boring, he's built a passionate audience of more than 200,000 people through his knack for deep analysis and genuine storytelling. Packy is a vibe-setter with a career spanning writing, investing, and podcasting (to name a few). Over the past four years, Packy has built Not Boring into one of the most trusted, hilarious, and unique publications covering the bleeding edge of deep tech startups working to solve hard but important problems. This week, Barrett talks with Packy about everything from the complexities of creating content that remains true to its roots while expanding to new audiences, to the personal growth that comes from never giving up. They discuss the financial and societal implications of investing in futuristic ideas, the significance of intellectual honesty in storytelling, particularly with contentious topics like nuclear energy, and the importance of optimism despite market downturns and societal challenges. Packy shares his optimistic vision for the future, fueled by technology and innovation, and his dedication to contributing to a world where work not only shapes individuals but drives prosperity for everyone. In this episode: 00:00 - Intro 02:12 - Packy's take on Not Boring's strategy 09:15 - The personal side of professional growth 15:11 - Embracing change and reflecting on success and the journey ahead 33:48 - An optimistic outlook in a downturn 36:32 - Reflecting on missed opportunities and fundraising challenges 38:20 - Rethinking venture capital 41:43 - VC vs charity for societal impact 47:05 - Imagining the future evolution of Not Boring 53:45 - Building an audience today 01:01:40 - The roots of optimism and its impact on entrepreneurship 01:10:43 - The state of journalism and public perception 01:13:57 - Exploring nuclear energy through podcasting 01:20:46 - Financial and creative dynamics of podcasting 01:24:53 - Reflections on nuclear energy and public sentiment 01:35:40 - Personal growth through creative work Get full show notes and links at https://GoodWorkShow.com. Watch the episode on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@barrettabrooks.

As soon as I read No More Boring Apps I was hooked. Andy Allen immediately became one of my design heroes and now I use his Not Boring apps daily. So this conversation is a behind-the-scenes of his journey, an analysis of the state of software design, and a glimpse of where we're headed next as an industry. Some highlights: - The design tools Andy is most excited about - Andy's advice for people wanting to learn 3D - The differences between good and great design - The 4 things needed for design to have cultural impact - How AI will empower us to deliver tailored software at scale - Why the future of design tooling might mirror the game industry Dive is where the best designers never stop learning

Packy McCormick is proof that writing online can attract real-world opportunities you never dreamed of. He went from 20 Substack subscribers to a $40 million venture fund — and he's still growing. In this episode, we dive into the three main “how's” of Packy's growth. First, he has a distinct, unforgettable style. His business-meets-memes newsletter, Not Boring, has amassed 220,000+ subscribers because his “funny finance guy” flair gives him an edge. Not to mention, it all started when he took the first-ever cohort of Write of Passage. (I may be biased, but seriously, that's when it started.) Next, Packy shares his domain expertise. He sees writing and investing as the perfect one-two punch. His goal? Share what he knows, and make a behind-the-scenes world accessible to the average audience. And finally, Packy adds value to his readers. Relentlessly. Not by telling them what to think, but by trying to change the way they think. In a world filled with Beta content — cheap entertainment that disappears in 24 hours — Packy creates Alpha content — quality work that has long-term relevance. Style. Expertise. Value. This is just a sneak-peek into our conversation. If you want to find your distinctiveness in a modern digital world, this episode is for you. SPEAKER LINKS: Website: https://www.packym.com/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/packyM Newsletter: https://www.notboring.co/ WRITE OF PASSAGE: Want to learn more about the next class Write of Passage? https://writeofpassage.com/ PODCAST LINKS: Website: https://writeofpassage.school/how-i-write/ Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/how-i-write/id1700171470 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/2DjMSboniFAeGA8v9NpoPv YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@DavidPerellChannel/videos Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

"Age of Miracles" Packy and Julia have spent the first five episodes of Age of Miracles diving into the past and present of nuclear fission—before jumping from the yin to the yang and covering nuclear fusion in the second half of this season, today we wanted to take a step back and talk about all the non-nuclear energy sources out there. We ask this icebreaker question to every guest we bring onto the show: "What does the pie chart of energy sources look like in the US in the year 2050?" From advocating for the widely accused fossil fuels like oil and gas, to the widely celebrated renewables like geothermal, solar, and wind, each guest brings a new perspective to the mix. In this episode, Packy and Julia hear out their cases, and afterwards, answer the infamous question themselves. Thank you to this episode's guests: Meredith Angwin, Mark Hinaman, Alex Epstein, Casey Handmer, Noah Smith, Angelica Oung, and Eli Dourado. Huge thank you to our sponsors: Secureframe: the only compliance automation platform with AI capabilities that help customers speed up cloud remediation and security questionnaires. Get 10% off your first year of Secureframe: https://secureframe.com/packy Pilot.com: accounting, CFO, and tax services that are designed with flexibility and scalability in mind. To get 20% off your accounting bill for the first 6 months, go to https://pilot.com/packy Clean Air Task Force For the full list of resources referenced in this show: https://ageofmiracles.co/  Subscribe to Not Boring to get weekly doses of tech and business strategy, straight to your inbox: https://www.notboring.co/ Follow our hosts: Packy McCormick on Twitter and LinkedIn Julia DeWahl on Twitter and LinkedIn Timestamps: (00:00:00) Energy in 2050 (00:08:29) Fossil fuels (00:28:41) Geothermal (00:36:53) Wind (00:56:54) Understanding the grid (01:03:30) Solar (01:25:02) Batteries (01:36:06) Episode Recap This show is produced and distributed by Turpentine, a network of shows and other media properties, where experts talk to experts about tech, business, culture, and more.  Credits: Nancy Xu produced this season of Age of Miracles. Audio editor: Justin Golden. Video editor: Nancy Xu. Executive producers: Amelia Salyers, Packy McCormick, and Erik Torenberg. 

Here's our full-length interview with Jordan Bramble and our own Julia DeWahl, co-founders of Antares, where we dive deep into how Antares plans on manufacturing in mass micro-sized nuclear reactors to provide abundant energy for all. Huge thank you to our sponsors: Range Fund Holdings: Tired of volatile markets and unreliable energies? Look no further than the Range Nuclear Renaissance ETF, your gateway to the clean, safe, and ever-expanding world of nuclear power. Visit https://www.rangeetfs.com or contact your financial advisor to learn more about the Range Nuclear Renaissance ETF and start investing in the future of energy. Secureframe: the only compliance automation platform with AI capabilities that help customers speed up cloud remediation and security questionnaires. Get 10% off your first year of Secureframe: https://secureframe.com/packy Pilot.com: accounting, CFO, and tax services that are designed with flexibility and scalability in mind. To get 20% off your accounting bill for the first 6 months, go to https://pilot.com/packy Tegus: combine fragmented workflows under one roof and compete on your ability to analyze companies — not on how well you aggregate data. Learn more and start your free trial at tegus.com/miracles Clean Air Task Force: CATF is one of the few NGO's in the world paving the way toward the global demonstration and establishment of a fusion energy industry this decade. They are undertaking and commissioning fusion energy market studies, technology readiness assessments, and regulatory analysis, emphasizing areas for international collaboration. As an objective and independent resource for stakeholders in the fusion sector, CATF is working to raise awareness and accelerate the potential for fusion energy. Learn more and support their efforts at: https://www.catf.us/fusion-energy/ For the full list of resources referenced in this show: https://ageofmiracles.co/  Subscribe to Not Boring to get weekly doses of tech and business strategy, straight to your inbox: https://www.notboring.co/ Follow our hosts: Packy McCormick on Twitter and LinkedIn Julia DeWahl on Twitter and LinkedIn Timestamps: (00:10) Introduction (03:50) Background story of starting Antares (05:50) Role of military applications in microreactor development (10:11) Working with DoD and commercial sector (15:28) The process of building a microreactor (20:04) On shifting from Software to Nuclear (23:06) Addressing risks in Antares (32:03) Next steps and timeline for Antares (39:18) The future of the world with abundant nuclear energy This show is produced and distributed by Turpentine, a network of shows and other media properties, where experts talk to experts about tech, business, culture, and more.  Credits: Nancy Xu produced this season of Age of Miracles. Audio editor: Justin Golden. Executive producers: Amelia Salyers, Packy McCormick, and Erik Torenberg. 

Here's our full-length interview with David Kirtley, founder of Helion Energy, where we dive deep into the need for fusion as a replacement for fossil fuels. Huge thank you to our sponsors: Range Fund Holdings: Tired of volatile markets and unreliable energies? Look no further than the Range Nuclear Renaissance ETF, your gateway to the clean, safe, and ever-expanding world of nuclear power. Visit https://www.rangeetfs.com or contact your financial advisor to learn more about the Range Nuclear Renaissance ETF and start investing in the future of energy. Secureframe: the only compliance automation platform with AI capabilities that help customers speed up cloud remediation and security questionnaires. Get 10% off your first year of Secureframe: https://secureframe.com/packy Pilot.com: accounting, CFO, and tax services that are designed with flexibility and scalability in mind. To get 20% off your accounting bill for the first 6 months, go to https://pilot.com/packy Tegus: combine fragmented workflows under one roof and compete on your ability to analyze companies — not on how well you aggregate data. Learn more and start your free trial at tegus.com/miracles Clean Air Task Force: CATF is one of the few NGO's in the world paving the way toward the global demonstration and establishment of a fusion energy industry this decade. They are undertaking and commissioning fusion energy market studies, technology readiness assessments, and regulatory analysis, emphasizing areas for international collaboration. As an objective and independent resource for stakeholders in the fusion sector, CATF is working to raise awareness and accelerate the potential for fusion energy. Learn more and support their efforts at: https://www.catf.us/fusion-energy/ For the full list of resources referenced in this show: https://ageofmiracles.co/  Subscribe to Not Boring to get weekly doses of tech and business strategy, straight to your inbox: https://www.notboring.co/ Follow our hosts: Packy McCormick on Twitter and LinkedIn Julia DeWahl on Twitter and LinkedIn Timestamps: (00:00) The future of energy sources in the US (03:10) Introduction to Helion Energy (08:33) Different approaches in fusion (12:21) Partnerships with Microsoft (16:16) Size and scalability of fusion reactors (20:21) Power control and regulation in fusion (25:44) Tracking progress at Helion (29:51) The market and competition in commercial fusion (34:30) Working with academia and regulatory (42:29) Challenges and risks in fusion development (44:13) The vision of abundant fusion energy This show is produced and distributed by Turpentine, a network of shows and other media properties, where experts talk to experts about tech, business, culture, and more.  Credits: Nancy Xu produced this season of Age of Miracles. Audio editor: Justin Golden. Executive producers: Amelia Salyers, Packy McCormick, and Erik Torenberg. 

Here's our full-length interview with Bret Kugelmass, founder of Last Energy, where we dive deep into nuclear manufacturing and the importance of manufacturing efficiency. Huge thank you to our sponsors: Secureframe: the only compliance automation platform with AI capabilities that help customers speed up cloud remediation and security questionnaires. Get 10% off your first year of Secureframe: https://secureframe.com/packy Pilot.com: accounting, CFO, and tax services that are designed with flexibility and scalability in mind. To get 20% off your accounting bill for the first 6 months, go to https://pilot.com/packy Tegus: combine fragmented workflows under one roof and compete on your ability to analyze companies — not on how well you aggregate data. Learn more and start your free trial at tegus.com/miracles Clean Air Task Force: CATF is one of the few NGO's in the world paving the way toward the global demonstration and establishment of a fusion energy industry this decade. They are undertaking and commissioning fusion energy market studies, technology readiness assessments, and regulatory analysis, emphasizing areas for international collaboration. As an objective and independent resource for stakeholders in the fusion sector, CATF is working to raise awareness and accelerate the potential for fusion energy. Learn more and support their efforts at: https://www.catf.us/fusion-energy/ Range Fund Holdings For the full list of resources referenced in this show: https://ageofmiracles.co/  Subscribe to Not Boring to get weekly doses of tech and business strategy, straight to your inbox: https://www.notboring.co/ Follow our hosts: Packy McCormick on Twitter and LinkedIn Julia DeWahl on Twitter and LinkedIn Timestamps: (00:00) Introduction (04:38) Regulatory capture and the NRC (09:45) The cost of nuclear + manufacturing (18:11) The Last Energy product and manufacturing process (25:14) The future of nuclear energy (29:31) Risks and mitigation in the nuclear energy business (35:52) The limitations of wind and wolar (40:49) Gigawatt scale power (43:14) What would the world look like with abundant nuclear energy? This show is produced and distributed by Turpentine, a network of shows and other media properties, where experts talk to experts about tech, business, culture, and more.  Credits: Nancy Xu produced this season of Age of Miracles. Audio editor: Justin Golden. Executive producers: Amelia Salyers, Packy McCormick, and Erik Torenberg. 

Today we have on the podcast Dan McCormick, CEO and founder of the D2C creatine gummy brand, Create Wellness. Dan reflects on Create's backstory, where after 10 years of Dan taking creatine, he identified a clear market in gap in the benefits creatine provides and the negative misconceptions surrounding it. Learn how he's battled these misconceptions and grown his business as the sole employee, his perspective on publishing real revenue figures publicly, and his advice for aspiring founders in the oversaturated supplement space.As the sole employee of Create, Dan oversees all aspects of the business. He also co-writes an optimistic newsletter called Not Boring with his brother Packy McCormick, a well-known tech writer and investor, which has over 200,000 subscribers. Despite Create's impressive growth, Dan still battles imposter syndrome when talking about the "creatine gummy business." However, he powers through by focusing on the tangible health benefits Create provides customers.We also discuss trends in the ecommerce landscape, the benefits of creatine and the challenges in selling it, Dan's lessons from publishing revenue numbers publicly, why female fitness influencers have been key partners, and his advice for aspiring founders, why females have held more market share than males, the ideal mechanism to delivery creatine gummies, and many other topics. Connect with DanLinkedinTwitterConnect with CreateWebsiteInstagramTwitter Join The Meat Mafia community Telegram group for daily conversations to keep up with what's happening between episodes of the show.SPONSORSCrowdHealth provides an alternative to traditional health insurance by allowing members to crowdsource their medical expenses.Use the code 'MEATMAFIA' to get coverage for $99 for your first 6 months.NOBLE ORIGINS Complete and simple, animal-based protein powder with an organ blend for additional nutrition! Use Code: MEATMAFIA at check out!AFFILIATESLMNT - Electrolyte salts to supplement minerals on low-carb dietThe Carnivore Bar - CODE MAFIA for 10% OFF - Delicious & convenient Pemmican BarPerennial Pastures - 10% OFF - Regeneratively raised, grass-fed & grass-finished beef from California & MontanaFarrow Skincare - Use the CODE 'MAFIA' at checkout for 20% OFFHeart & Soil - CODE ‘MEATMAFIA10' for 10% OFF - enhanced nutrition to replace daily vitamins!Carnivore Snax - Crispy, airy meat chips that melt in your mouth. Regeneratively raised in the USA.Pluck Seasoning - 10% OFF - Nutrient-dense seasoning with INSANE flavor! CODE: MAFIAWe Feed Raw 25% OFF your first order - ancestrally consistent food for your dog! CODE 'MEATMAFIA'Fond Bone Broth - 15% OFF - REAL bone broth with HIGH-QUALITY ingredients! It's a daily product for us!

We're kicking off the first of our bonus episodes with Tyler Bernstein, founder and CEO of Zeno Power, where he shares in-depth how they're creating radioisotope power systems for lunar applications. Huge thank you to our sponsors: Secureframe: the only compliance automation platform with AI capabilities that help customers speed up cloud remediation and security questionnaires. Get 10% off your first year of Secureframe: https://secureframe.com/packy Pilot.com: accounting, CFO, and tax services that are designed with flexibility and scalability in mind. To get 20% off your accounting bill for the first 6 months, go to https://pilot.com/packy Tegus: combine fragmented workflows under one roof and compete on your ability to analyze companies — not on how well you aggregate data. Learn more and start your free trial at tegus.com/miracles Clean Air Task Force: CATF is one of the few NGO's in the world paving the way toward the global demonstration and establishment of a fusion energy industry this decade. They are undertaking and commissioning fusion energy market studies, technology readiness assessments, and regulatory analysis, emphasizing areas for international collaboration. As an objective and independent resource for stakeholders in the fusion sector, CATF is working to raise awareness and accelerate the potential for fusion energy. Learn more and support their efforts at: https://www.catf.us/fusion-energy/ Range Fund Holdings For the full list of resources referenced in this show: https://ageofmiracles.co/  Subscribe to Not Boring to get weekly doses of tech and business strategy, straight to your inbox: https://www.notboring.co/ Follow our hosts: Packy McCormick on Twitter and LinkedIn Julia DeWahl on Twitter and LinkedIn Timestamps: (00:00) Introduction (00:22) The Pie of Energy Sources in 2050 (01:35) Nuclear Energy in Space (06:12) Radioisotope Power vs. Nuclear Power for Propulsion (10:54) Building Zeno Power (14:18) Economics and Regulation in Space Nuclear (20:01) Competitive Dynamics and Protecting Market Position (23:00) Challenges and Risks (25:29) Business Models and Financing (29:42) De-risking the Supply Chain (32:17) Product and Process of Zeno Power (35:22) Geopolitics and the Moon (38:48) Abundant Energy in the Universe This show is produced and distributed by Turpentine, a network of shows and other media properties, where experts talk to experts about tech, business, culture, and more.  Credits: Nancy Xu produced this season of Age of Miracles. Audio editor: Justin Golden. Executive producers: Amelia Salyers, Packy McCormick, and Erik Torenberg. 

Happy New Year! In this special joint episode, the Four Degrees to the Streets and Urban Planning is Not Boring podcasts come together to discuss Transit-Oriented Development (TOD). Hosts Nimo, Jas, Sam, and Nat use their expertise and experience living in TODs as a backdrop to give a coast-to-coast perspective on this complex subject. Press play to hear:TOD defined as a mixed-use community that encourages people to live near transit services and decrease their dependence on driving and its key components and historyExamples of TOD programs including BART (Bay Area Rapid Transit), NJ Transit, the City of Chicago's ETOD (equitable transit-oriented development) plan, and the Federal Transit Administration TOD Pilot ProgramConsiderations for the future of TOD Learn more about Urban Planning is Not Boring, the podcast that explores the fascinating world of urban planning, at urbanplanningisnotboring.squarespace.com and follow on social media @urbanplanningisnotboring.Thank you for listening and tune in every other Tuesday where Nimo and Jas keep it Four Degrees to the Streets.Follow us on X and Instagram @the4degreespod.Or send us an email to connect with us!ResourcesHistories of Transit-Oriented Development: Perspectives on the Development of the TOD ConceptBART TOD Millbrae BART TODElevated ChicagoETOD | Equitable Transit-Oriented DevelopmentPennrose Gives Back to Veterans Through HousingDover officials open new 70-unit affordable family and veterans housing in downtownFTA FY 2023 Competitive Funding Opportunity: Pilot Program for Transit-Oriented DevelopmentTOD Planning Study (2015-2021) Projects

We can live in an Age of Miracles, but it's going to take a lot of work.  Energy abundance is the most important thing we can work towards as a species.  More than simply surviving climate change, we have the opportunity to unlock a new level of human thriving if we can successfully navigate this transition.  That's why we chose to do the first season of Age of Miracles on the energy sources of the future. In this episode of Age of Miracles, the final episode of season one, Packy and Julia reflect on the importance of energy abundance, how nuclear energy helps us unlock it, and what the future might look like when we do. Thank you to all of our guests this season for making this show possible—we're so grateful. Huge thank you to our sponsors: Secureframe: the only compliance automation platform with AI capabilities that help customers speed up cloud remediation and security questionnaires. Get 10% off your first year of Secureframe: https://secureframe.com/packy Pilot.com: accounting, CFO, and tax services that are designed with flexibility and scalability in mind. To get 20% off your accounting bill for the first 6 months, go to https://pilot.com/packy Tegus: combine fragmented workflows under one roof and compete on your ability to analyze companies — not on how well you aggregate data. Learn more and start your free trial at tegus.com/miracles Clean Air Task Force: CATF is one of the few NGO's in the world paving the way toward the global demonstration and establishment of a fusion energy industry this decade. They are undertaking and commissioning fusion energy market studies, technology readiness assessments, and regulatory analysis, emphasizing areas for international collaboration. As an objective and independent resource for stakeholders in the fusion sector, CATF is working to raise awareness and accelerate the potential for fusion energy. Learn more and support their efforts at: https://www.catf.us/fusion-energy/ Range Fund Holdings For the full list of resources referenced in this show: https://ageofmiracles.co/  Subscribe to Not Boring to get weekly doses of tech and business strategy, straight to your inbox: https://www.notboring.co/ Follow our hosts: Packy McCormick on Twitter and LinkedIn Julia DeWahl on Twitter and LinkedIn Timestamps: (00:00) The best way to create the future is to invent it (07:55) What can you do today? (16:09) Josh Wolfe on a future of abundance (18:29) Casey Handmer on a future of abundance (20:49) Angelica Oung on a future of abundance (23:22) Alex Epstein on a future of abundance (29:42) Final recap This show is produced and distributed by Turpentine, a network of shows and other media properties, where experts talk to experts about tech, business, culture, and more.  Credits: Nancy Xu produced this season of Age of Miracles. Audio editor: Justin Golden. Video editor: Nancy Xu. Executive producers: Amelia Salyers, Packy McCormick, and Erik Torenberg. 

Alex Rechevskiy, PM career coach, tells us about his time as a PM at Google, his solopreneur coaching practice, and Comment Armor, his YouTube spam comments management startup. Segments [01:46] Why product management is hard? [07:27] Alex' solopreneur coaching business [19:30] Experience working at Google as a PM [41:18] Building social media following [44:11] Preventing spam in YouTube comments with Comment Armor [58:01] Book recommendation Show notes Alex on LinkedIn Alex's website Alex on YouTube Alex on X/Twitter Cracking the PM Interview Krazam video on Microservices Krazam video I Have Delivered Value... But At What Cost? Not Boring newsletter Hooked by Nir Eyal Black Swan by Nassim Nicholas Taleb Thinking Fast and Slow by Daniel Kahneman Get in touch

In the bizarro relay marathon that is the fusion race, the baton is firmly in the hands of the startups. The outcome, to be sure, is still uncertain, but the question isn't whether humanity will achieve commercial fusion, but which companies will, with which approaches, when? Fusion, many believe, will be one of humanity's greatest triumphs: we will be able to generate energy in the same way that stars do, right on earth. And in this episode, Packy and Julia talk to some of the people who are most likely to make it happen. They'll answer the question of “Why now?” for fusion, and for startups in particular, dive into their business models and the economics of a fusion plant, and discuss what a rollout of fusion across the globe might look like. Thank you to this episode's guests: David Kirtley, Sehila Gonzalez, Clay Dumas, JC Btaiche, Francesco Sciortino, Clea Kolster, Ryan Umstattd, Derek Sutherland, and Ian Hogarth. Huge thank you to our sponsors: Secureframe: the only compliance automation platform with AI capabilities that help customers speed up cloud remediation and security questionnaires. Get 10% off your first year of Secureframe: https://secureframe.com/packy Pilot.com: accounting, CFO, and tax services that are designed with flexibility and scalability in mind. To get 20% off your accounting bill for the first 6 months, go to https://pilot.com/packy Tegus: combine fragmented workflows under one roof and compete on your ability to analyze companies — not on how well you aggregate data. Learn more and start your free trial at tegus.com/miracles Clean Air Task Force Range Fund Holdings For the full list of resources referenced in this show: https://ageofmiracles.co/  Subscribe to Not Boring to get weekly doses of tech and business strategy, straight to your inbox: https://www.notboring.co/ Follow our hosts: Packy McCormick on Twitter and LinkedIn Julia DeWahl on Twitter and LinkedIn Timestamps: (00:00) The fusion race (04:54) Why now? What changed? (10:28) Commonwealth (13:21) Fuse Energy (23:35) Proxima Fusion (31:10) Zap Energy (39:09) Helion Energy (52:30) The unit economics of a fusion plant (1:01:24) Fusion commercial rollout (1:05:03) Recap This show is produced and distributed by Turpentine, a network of shows and other media properties, where experts talk to experts about tech, business, culture, and more.  Credits: Nancy Xu produced this season of Age of Miracles. Audio editor: Justin Golden. Video editor: Nancy Xu. Executive producers: Amelia Salyers, Packy McCormick, and Erik Torenberg. 

There's this joke that fusion is always 30 years away. 50 years ago, it was 30 years away. 20 years ago, it was still thirty years away. Today, though… we might be within a decade.  We spent the first half of the season on nuclear fission, and the last episode on many of the other energy sources that will play a role in meeting humanity's growing energy demands and building an Age of Miracles. All of them will be critical.  But there's a growing chorus of people who believe that if we're going to meet the demand for 3-5x the amount of energy we use today, and do it with clean energy, we're going to need clean energy. And that as we climb the Kardashev Scale – the framework for measuring a civilization's level of technological advancement based on the amount of energy it can use – fusion is going to be our ladder.  In today's episode, we'll cover the basics of fusion energy – what it is, how it works, why it matters, how progress is measured, and what the main approaches are.  Thank you to this episode's guests: Clay Dumas, Andrew Côté, Sehila Gonzalez, Ian Hogarth, and Ryan Umstattd. Huge thank you to our sponsors: Secureframe: the only compliance automation platform with AI capabilities that help customers speed up cloud remediation and security questionnaires. Get 10% off your first year of Secureframe: https://secureframe.com/packy Pilot.com: accounting, CFO, and tax services that are designed with flexibility and scalability in mind. To get 20% off your accounting bill for the first 6 months, go to https://pilot.com/packy Clean Air Task Force Range Fund Holdings For the full list of resources referenced in this show: https://ageofmiracles.co/  Subscribe to Not Boring to get weekly doses of tech and business strategy, straight to your inbox: https://www.notboring.co/ Follow our hosts: Packy McCormick on Twitter and LinkedIn Julia DeWahl on Twitter and LinkedIn Timestamps: This show is produced and distributed by Turpentine, a network of shows and other media properties, where experts talk to experts about tech, business, culture, and more.  Credits: Nancy Xu produced this season of Age of Miracles. Audio editor: Justin Golden. Video editor: Nancy Xu. Executive producers: Amelia Salyers, Packy McCormick, and Erik Torenberg. 

Packy and Julia have spent the first five episodes of Age of Miracles diving into the past and present of nuclear fission—before jumping from the yin to the yang and covering nuclear fusion in the second half of this season, today we wanted to take a step back and talk about all the non-nuclear energy sources out there. We ask this icebreaker question to every guest we bring onto the show: "What does the pie chart of energy sources look like in the US in the year 2050?" From advocating for the widely accused fossil fuels like oil and gas, to the widely celebrated renewables like geothermal, solar, and wind, each guest brings a new perspective to the mix. In this episode, Packy and Julia hear out their cases, and afterwards, answer the infamous question themselves. Thank you to this episode's guests: Meredith Angwin, Mark Hinaman, Alex Epstein, Casey Handmer, Noah Smith, Angelica Oung, and Eli Dourado. Huge thank you to our sponsors: Secureframe: the only compliance automation platform with AI capabilities that help customers speed up cloud remediation and security questionnaires. Get 10% off your first year of Secureframe: https://secureframe.com/packy Pilot.com: accounting, CFO, and tax services that are designed with flexibility and scalability in mind. To get 20% off your accounting bill for the first 6 months, go to https://pilot.com/packy Clean Air Task Force For the full list of resources referenced in this show: https://ageofmiracles.co/  Subscribe to Not Boring to get weekly doses of tech and business strategy, straight to your inbox: https://www.notboring.co/ Follow our hosts: Packy McCormick on Twitter and LinkedIn Julia DeWahl on Twitter and LinkedIn Timestamps: (00:00:00) Energy in 2050 (00:08:29) Fossil fuels (00:28:41) Geothermal (00:36:53) Wind (00:56:54) Understanding the grid (01:03:30) Solar (01:25:02) Batteries (01:36:06) Episode Recap This show is produced and distributed by Turpentine, a network of shows and other media properties, where experts talk to experts about tech, business, culture, and more.  Credits: Nancy Xu produced this season of Age of Miracles. Audio editor: Justin Golden. Video editor: Nancy Xu. Executive producers: Amelia Salyers, Packy McCormick, and Erik Torenberg. 

On this episode of Okay, Computer. Dan Nathan and Deirdre Bosa discuss e-commerce stocks surging after Black Friday/Cyber Monday (2:30), Fashion Retailer Shein Files Confidentially for US IPO (5:00), the Temu & Shein effect on US retailers (10:00), the IPO market opening back up (14:00).  Later, Dan sits down with video journalist Cleo Abram and Packy McCormick, founder of Not Boring, for a conversation about being creators (18:00). Topics include: How Cleo conceptualizes “Huge If True” (20:00) Packy writing in long-form (22:15) Taking feedback (28:45) Monetization (35:20) Subscription models (40:00) Bitcoin/Crypto (45:00) The Mag7 stocks (48:00) --- View our show notes here Learn more about Ro body: ro.co/okay Email us at contact@riskreversal.com with any feedback, suggestions, or questions for us to answer on the pod and follow us @OkayComputerPod. We're on social: Follow @dee_bosa on Twitter Follow @GuyAdami on Twitter Follow us on Instagram @RiskReversalMedia Subscribe to our YouTube page

On this episode of Okay, Computer. Dan Nathan and Deirdre Bosa discuss e-commerce stocks surging after Black Friday/Cyber Monday (2:30), Fashion Retailer Shein Files Confidentially for US IPO (5:00), the Temu & Shein effect on US retailers (10:00), the IPO market opening back up (14:00).  Later, Dan sits down with video journalist Cleo Abram and Packy McCormick, founder of Not Boring, for a conversation about being creators (18:00). Topics include: How Cleo conceptualizes “Huge If True” (20:00) Packy writing in long-form (22:15) Taking feedback (28:45) Monetization (35:20) Subscription models (40:00) Bitcoin/Crypto (45:00) The Mag7 stocks (48:00) -- View our show notes here Learn more about Ro body: ro.co/okay Email us at contact@riskreversal.com with any feedback, suggestions, or questions for us to answer on the pod and follow us @OkayComputerPod. We're on social: Follow @dee_bosa on Twitter Follow @GuyAdami on Twitter Follow us on Instagram @RiskReversalMedia Subscribe to our YouTube page

This week, Packy and Julia take a break from our regularly scheduled narrative programming to look back on the past five episodes we've published focused on nuclear fission—and address news stories, feedback, and listener questions collected through this season so far. We cover: Illinois pushing back on the nuclear moratorium, Nuscale's cancelled contracts, COP 28 Why QA makes building new nuclear so difficult, solar cost curves, and more listener feedback on episodes 1-5 Investing in nuclear, nuclear waste recycling, how to create more political support for the AP1000, and more listener questions Thank you to this episode's guests: Jim Hopf, Robert Bryce, Brett Rampal, Heather Hoff, and Paris Ortiz-Wines. Huge thank you to our sponsors: Secureframe: the only compliance automation platform with AI capabilities that help customers speed up cloud remediation and security questionnaires. Get 10% off your first year of Secureframe: https://secureframe.com/packy Pilot.com: accounting, CFO, and tax services that are designed with flexibility and scalability in mind. To get 20% off your accounting bill for the first 6 months, go to https://pilot.com/packy Clean Air Task Force For the full list of resources referenced in this show: https://ageofmiracles.co/  Subscribe to Not Boring to get weekly doses of tech and business strategy, straight to your inbox: https://www.notboring.co/ Follow our hosts: Packy McCormick on Twitter and LinkedIn Julia DeWahl on Twitter and LinkedIn Timestamps: (00:00) Nuclear news: Illinois, Nuscale, COP 28 (8:27) Nuclear-specific QA standards (15:52) Comparing and contrasting other countries' nuclear programs (20:55) The truth about solar (23:50) What sectors win with nuclear? (24:55) Investing in nuclear (29:18) Does being "eco friendly" matter if we get energy right? (33:24) Nuclear waste recycling (36:03) Leading investors in nuclear (38:19) Policy playbook to shift investments to nuclear (41:07) Arguments for nuclear waste at dinner tables (42:20) How to get more political support for the AP1000 (45:25) Deeper dive into developing nuclear projects (48:46) How to get involved in nuclear This show is produced and distributed by Turpentine, a network of shows and other media properties, where experts talk to experts about tech, business, culture, and more.  Credits: Nancy Xu produced this season of Age of Miracles. Audio editor: Justin Golden. Video editor: Nancy Xu. Executive producers: Amelia Salyers, Packy McCormick, and Erik Torenberg. 

"Age of Miracles" Key Takeaways  More energy means more humanity flourishing Nuclear fission is the cleanest and safest form of energy that we have As of 2022, nuclear energy accounts for 20% of the electric gridEnergy is a positive-sum game; the more we have, the better we do! A shift is occurring in the United States: In 2023, 57% of Americans say they favor more nuclear power plants to generate electricity in the country, up from 43% who said the same in 2020What if you were told the nuclear industry was the only industry that managed its toxic waste… wouldn't you be impressed? All of the nuclear waste that has been produced in the United States can fit inside of a football field, stacked 10 meters high It is impossible to create nuclear weapons from nuclear fuelUsing more energy raises the floor and ceiling for humanity; it can bring the rest of the world up to the Western standard of living, and help power all of the futuristic technology that entrepreneurs will create The amount of radiation that leaked out of the Three Mile Island incident was about the same amount of radiation that you would be exposed to getting a chest X-ray at the doctor – a negligible amount The reaction to Fukushima was completely overblown: it is debated whether zero people or one person died from any sort of radiation at FukushimaWhile nuclear fission has matured from a technological perspective, it has gotten bogged down from a political, cultural, economic, and regulatory perspectiveSignificant strides are being made in nuclear fusion; it actually might be less than 30 years away! Read the full notes @ podcastnotes.orgWelcome to the first episode of the first season of “Age of Miracles”. This new show from Packy McCormick, investor and writer of the Not Boring newsletter, asks the question: how do we create a future of abundance? This season, we're exploring the future of energy – specifically, diving deep into nuclear energy, both fission and fusion. The world needs more energy, not less, argues Packy, and nuclear has been neglected as a clean, reliable source of energy for too long. Joining Packy as co-host this season is Julia DeWahl, who previously helped scale SpaceX's Starlink and Opendoor and is now co-founder of micro-nuclear reactor startup Antares.  In this episode, Packy and Julia set the stage for the season. They start with how they each got nuke-pilled and how the global narrative on energy has shifted, following events like the war in Ukraine and growing inflation. Next, they bust the three most common myths about nuclear energy: it's too unsafe, there's too much nuclear waste, and nuclear energy = nuclear weapons. And then they set the stage for the real challenges we'll tackle this season: the economics of nuclear power, regulation and the role of government, and the power of public perception.  If you're curious about the future of energy, technology, or how to get out of a doomer loop and start working towards an abundant future, join us. An age of miracles is within reach — if we're willing to work for it. Huge thank you to our sponsors: Secureframe: the only compliance automation platform with AI capabilities that help customers speed up cloud remediation and security questionnaires. Get 20% off your first year of Secureframe by mentioning "Age of Miracles" during your free demo: https://secureframe.com/ Pilot.com: accounting, CFO, and tax services that are designed with flexibility and scalability in mind. To get 20% off your accounting bill for the first 6 months, go to https://pilot.com/packy Clean Air Task Force For the full list of resources referenced in this show: https://ageofmiracles.co/  Subscribe to Not Boring to get weekly doses of tech and business strategy, straight to your inbox: https://www.notboring.co/ Follow our hosts: Packy McCormick on Twitter and LinkedIn Julia DeWahl on Twitter and LinkedIn Timestamps: (00:00) Why the world needs more energy (06:43) Preview of this season of Age of Miracles (10:03) Let's talk nuclear fission (19:15) Busting common nuclear myths: disasters, waste, and proliferation (30:22) The 201 challenges with nuclear energy (36:21) Could all the energy in 2050 just be fusion? (45:23) Closing thoughts This show is produced and distributed by Turpentine, a network of shows and other media properties. Credits: Nancy Xu produced this season of Age of Miracles. Audio editor: Justin Golden. Video editor: Jake Salyers. Executive producers: Amelia Salyers, Packy McCormick, and Erik Torenberg. 

Let's dive into the world of advanced nuclear startups—where founders are playing entrepreneurship on hard-mode, and navigating how to build new reactor designs, sell to new markets, and forge new regulatory pathways. This episode is the second focused on nuclear fission startup founders—while last week Packy and Julia spoke with entrepreneurs who laser-focused on the problem of manufacturing ready-made designs at scale, this new crop of founders featured are tackling a seemingly even more difficult task of creating new forms of nuclear reactors from scratch. As a16z American Dynamism partner Katherine Boyle says, "to build a successful energy startup, you have to excel at math, deep technology, storytelling, recruiting, and regulatory." Tune in as Packy and Julia spotlight five founders taking radically different paths to bringing more nuclear online—from radioisotopes on the literal moon to the novel production of hydrocarbons. Thank you to this episode's guests: Katherine Boyle, Albert Wenger, Jake DeWitte, Isaiah Taylor, Matt Loszak, Tyler Bernstein, Jordan Bramble, Josh Wolfe, and David Ulevitch. Huge thank you to our sponsors: Secureframe: the only compliance automation platform with AI capabilities that help customers speed up cloud remediation and security questionnaires. Get 10% off your first year of Secureframe: https://secureframe.com/packy Pilot.com: accounting, CFO, and tax services that are designed with flexibility and scalability in mind. To get 20% off your accounting bill for the first 6 months, go to https://pilot.com/packy Clean Air Task Force For the full list of resources referenced in this show: https://ageofmiracles.co/  Subscribe to Not Boring to get weekly doses of tech and business strategy, straight to your inbox: https://www.notboring.co/ Follow our hosts: Packy McCormick on Twitter and LinkedIn Julia DeWahl on Twitter and LinkedIn Timestamps: (00:00) What are advanced reactors? (11:58) Introducing the startup founders (14:01) Oklo (17:55) Valar Atomics (25:27) Aalo (26:41) Zeno Power (30:07) Antares (37:18) Why we need a new playbook for nuclear (48:53) Selling to new markets and customers (1:07:00) On regulation (1:30:18) Nuclear startup operations (1:46:40) The importance of design (1:52:24) The advanced nuclear startup playbook This show is produced and distributed by Turpentine, a network of shows and other media properties, where experts talk to experts about tech, business, culture, and more.  Credits: Nancy Xu produced this season of Age of Miracles. Audio editor: Justin Golden. Video editor: Jake Salyers. Executive producers: Amelia Salyers, Packy McCormick, and Erik Torenberg. 

What if we treated building nuclear more like a manufacturing challenge than a construction challenge? How could nuclear benefit from the tried-and-true methodologies of other large industrial industries like ship-building and oil and gas to make nuclear as cheap as solar and wind to produce? In this episode – the first of two with leading nuclear fission startup founders – Packy and Julia talk to a new crop of nuclear entrepreneurs who are focused on manufacturing small modular reactors at scale. Drawing on best practices from very different industries like building reactors in shipyards or adapting the methods of offshore oil and gas rigs, these founders are taking a radically different approach from the incumbents in nuclear power plant construction. They're focused on bringing the experience curves for building nuclear way down But how will it actually work in practice? How do they balance pleasing regulators with innovating on new designs for more efficiency and manufacturability? How do they finance these businesses? What is the plan for connecting these power sources to the grid – or finding other “behind the meter” use cases? Tune in to go deep with the people turning theories about nuclear manufacturing into reality. Thank you to this episode's guests: Matt Slotkin, Nick Touran, Bret Kugelmass, Katherine Boyle, Josh Wolfe, and Jake DeWitte  Huge thank you to our sponsors: Secureframe: the only compliance automation platform with AI capabilities that help customers speed up cloud remediation and security questionnaires. Get 20% off your first year of Secureframe by mentioning "Age of Miracles" during your free demo: https://secureframe.com/ Pilot.com: accounting, CFO, and tax services that are designed with flexibility and scalability in mind. To get 20% off your accounting bill for the first 6 months, go to https://pilot.com/packy Clean Air Task Force For the full list of resources referenced in this show: https://ageofmiracles.co/  Subscribe to Not Boring to get weekly doses of tech and business strategy, straight to your inbox: https://www.notboring.co/ Follow our hosts: Packy McCormick on Twitter and LinkedIn Julia DeWahl on Twitter and LinkedIn Timestamps: (00:00) Building a shipyard to manufacture nuclear reactors (06:22) The experience curve (11:00) Which industries can we steal ideas from? (19:40) Blue Energy with Matt Slotkin (25:10) Last Energy with Bret Kugelmass (31:40) Good strategy, bad strategy (38:41) Financing nuclear companies (44:00) Oklo going public (51:30) Recap This show is produced and distributed by Turpentine, a network of shows and other media properties, where experts talk to experts about tech, business, culture, and more.  Credits: Nancy Xu produced this season of Age of Miracles. Audio editor: Justin Golden. Video editor: Jake Salyers. Executive producers: Amelia Salyers, Packy McCormick, and Erik Torenberg. 

If we just tried to implement and scale the technology we have today for large scale nuclear reactors, with no innovation on reactor designs or business models, could we do it? How hard (or expensive) could it really be? Turns out, this question gets to the heart of the paradox of nuclear power in America: this incredible energy source, which has the potential to be the cheapest and cleanest of all, is currently the most expensive to build by orders of magnitude. To get more nuclear power on the grid as fast as possible, we need to dramatically change the economics of new reactors. The complex economics stem from three main intertwined issues: construction, financing, and regulation.  In this episode, Packy and Julia dig into the nitty gritty of these issues and look at what it actually takes to build a plant in America (and around the globe). They point out some opportunities to improve key problem areas like financing and workforce deployment. And they talk with nuclear experts, government financing officials, investors, and entrepreneurs who are all trying to figure out: how do we fix the economics of building large scale nuclear reactors? Some of the answers include innovations in financing and possible regulatory changes – and some get more creative, like floating shipyards and repurposing old coal plants. Tune in to go deep on the economics of nuclear power plants.  Thank you to this episode's guests:, Bret Kugelmass, Mark Nelson, Josh Wolfe, James Krellenstein, Emmet Penney, Julie Kozeracki, and David Ulevitch. Huge thank you to our sponsors: Secureframe: the only compliance automation platform with AI capabilities that help customers speed up cloud remediation and security questionnaires. Get 20% off your first year of Secureframe by mentioning "Age of Miracles" during your free demo: https://secureframe.com/ Pilot.com: accounting, CFO, and tax services that are designed with flexibility and scalability in mind. To get 20% off your accounting bill for the first 6 months, go to https://pilot.com/packy Clean Air Task Force For the full list of resources referenced in this show: https://ageofmiracles.co/  Subscribe to Not Boring to get weekly doses of tech and business strategy, straight to your inbox: https://www.notboring.co/ Follow our hosts: Packy McCormick on Twitter and LinkedIn Julia DeWahl on Twitter and LinkedIn Timestamps: (00:00) Why is building new nuclear in the U.S. so expensive? (07:40) How nuclear fission and nuclear plants work (16:50) Nuclear power plant economics (29:05) So, how do we fix the economics of building nuclear power plants? (41:45) What's actually holding industry executives back from ordering more projects? (48:12) Serialized construction and developer models (58:50) Why is nobody talking about regulation? (1:08:30) Acceleration through federal and popular support (1:16:32) Recap This show is produced and distributed by Turpentine, a network of shows and other media properties, where experts talk to experts about tech, business, culture, and more.  Credits: Nancy Xu produced this season of Age of Miracles. Audio editor: Justin Golden. Video editor: Jake Salyers. Executive producers: Amelia Salyers, Packy McCormick, and Erik Torenberg.

Dan Romero and Erik Torenberg are joined by Packy McCormick of Not Boring and Julia DeWahl (founder of Antares, ex-SpaceX) to talk about the past, present, and future of nuclear energy. Packy and Julia co-host a new narrative series called Age of Miracles ( If you're looking for SOC 2, ISO 27001, GDPR or HIPAA compliance, head to Vanta for $1000 off: https://www.vanta.com/zen SUBSCRIBE TO AGE OF MIRACLES: Podcasts: https://link.chtbl.com/ageofmiracles | YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@age-of-miracles – SPONSORS: VANTA | NETSUITE Are you building a business? If you're looking for SOC 2, ISO 27001, GDPR or HIPAA compliance, head to Vanta. Achieving compliance can actually unlock major growth for your company and build customer loyalty. Vanta automates up to 90% of Compliance work, getting you audit-ready in weeks instead of months and saving 85% of associated costs. Moment of Zen listeners get $1000 off at: https://www.vanta.com/zen NetSuite has 25 years of providing financial software for all your business needs. More than 36,000 businesses have already upgraded to NetSuite by Oracle, gaining visibility and control over their financials, inventory, HR, eCommerce, and more. If you're looking for an ERP platform head to NetSuite: http://netsuite.com/zen and download your own customized KPI checklist. – Sign up for our newsletter to receive the full shownotes: https://momentofzen.substack.com/ –  X / TWITTER: @packym (Packy) @juliadewahl (Julia) @dwr (Dan) @eriktorenberg (Erik) @moz_podcast @TurpentineMedia – SELECT LINKS: Chart (Our World in Data) https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/death-rates-from-energy-production-per-twh Book: Ian Morris, Why the West Rules – for Now https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Why_the_West_Rules%E2%80%94For_Now MoZ featuring E/Acc's Beff Jezos and Bayeslord https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wbfviqlGy2U Article: Packy McCormick, The Henry Adams Curve: https://www.notboring.co/p/working-harder-and-smarter Article: Eli Dourado, Personal Aviation is About to Get Interesting : https://www.elidourado.com/p/personal-aviation  –  TIMESTAMPS: (00:00) Episode Preview (01:46) Why the interest in nuclear energy? (05:45) Why does energy matter? (09:10) Greta Thunberg and environmentalism as religion replacement (12:08) Why France got it right in the 70s (14:48) Sponsors: Vanta and NetSuite (17:04) Myth-busting: nuclear waste and disasters (22:33) Why has the anti-nuclear movement been so potent? (26:46) Breaking down the incentives at play in regulation and the free market (39:00) How do you change the perception and safety?  (47:50) The opportunities to build in the nuclear space (56:50) Applying Elon's frameworks to building in the nuclear space (01:00:45) Safety culture and accountability (01:08:20) Opportunity for SMR companies from Microsoft and congress (01:10:20) Are we overestimating nuclear's impact versus other energy sources? (01:16:05) Capital markets and idea maze problem (01:23:00) How to get involved in opportunities in nuclear if you have no background

Welcome to the first episode of the first season of “Age of Miracles”. This new show from Packy McCormick, investor and writer of the Not Boring newsletter, asks the question: how do we create a future of abundance? This season, we're exploring the future of energy – specifically, diving deep into nuclear energy, both fission and fusion. The world needs more energy, not less, argues Packy, and nuclear has been neglected as a clean, reliable source of energy for too long. Joining Packy as co-host this season is Julia DeWahl, who previously helped scale SpaceX's Starlink and Opendoor and is now co-founder of micro-nuclear reactor startup Antares.  In this episode, Packy and Julia set the stage for the season. They start with how they each got nuke-pilled and how the global narrative on energy has shifted, following events like the war in Ukraine and growing inflation. Next, they bust the three most common myths about nuclear energy: it's too unsafe, there's too much nuclear waste, and nuclear energy = nuclear weapons. And then they set the stage for the real challenges we'll tackle this season: the economics of nuclear power, regulation and the role of government, and the power of public perception.  If you're curious about the future of energy, technology, or how to get out of a doomer loop and start working towards an abundant future, join us. An age of miracles is within reach — if we're willing to work for it. Huge thank you to our sponsors: Secureframe: the only compliance automation platform with AI capabilities that help customers speed up cloud remediation and security questionnaires. Get 20% off your first year of Secureframe by mentioning "Age of Miracles" during your free demo. Pilot.com: accounting, CFO, and tax services that are designed with flexibility and scalability in mind. To get 20% off your accounting bill for the first 6 months, go to https://pilot.com/packy Clean Air Task Force For the full list of resources referenced in this show: https://ageofmiracles.co/  Subscribe to Not Boring to get weekly doses of tech and business strategy, straight to your inbox: https://www.notboring.co/ Follow our hosts: Packy McCormick on Twitter and LinkedIn Julia DeWahl on Twitter and LinkedIn Timestamps: (00:00) Why the world needs more energy (06:43) Preview of this season of Age of Miracles (10:03) Let's talk nuclear fission (19:15) Busting common nuclear myths: disasters, waste, and proliferation (30:22) The 201 challenges with nuclear energy (36:21) Could all the energy in 2050 just be fusion? (45:23) Closing thoughts This show is produced and distributed by Turpentine, a network of shows and other media properties. Credits: Nancy Xu produced this season of Age of Miracles. Audio editor: Justin Golden. Video editor: Jake Salyers. Executive producers: Amelia Salyers, Packy McCormick, and Erik Torenberg. 

“Nuclear fission is a miracle technology, and we've had it for 80 years. But we don't live in an energy abundant world. Because progress takes more than miracles.” Almost exactly 50 years ago, nuclear fission and large scale reactors were on track to deliver abundant, cheap energy to the globe. But instead, nuclear power declined even faster than it had scaled, becoming a pariah of the energy industry and relegated to a footnote. What actually happened? And how do we prevent it from happening again?  The rise and fall of nuclear power in the 20th century are even more complicated and weirder than you might think – and yet the themes of global economic systems in flux, misinformation and pseudoscience, the complicated relationship between government and business, and the wide gaps between technological innovation and putting that innovation into practice will all feel familiar.   From nuclear's origins in small reactors for submarines and planes after WWII to its rapid scaling into gigawatt-scale reactors in the 60s and 70s; from President Eisenhower's calls for “atoms for peace” to the pressures of the original “decels”, the degrowth anti-nuclear environmental movement; from regulatory boosterism to regulatory overreach, the story of nuclear is one of extremes. And there's much to learn about pushing nuclear forward in the 21st century.  Thank you to this episode's guests: Emmet Penney, Rod Adams, Nick Touran, James Krellenstein, Bret Kugelmass, Alex Epstein, and Mark Nelson.  Huge thank you to our sponsors: Secureframe: the only compliance automation platform with AI capabilities that help customers speed up cloud remediation and security questionnaires. Get 20% off your first year of Secureframe by mentioning "Age of Miracles" during your free demo. Pilot.com: accounting, CFO, and tax services that are designed with flexibility and scalability in mind. To get 20% off your accounting bill for the first 6 months, go to https://pilot.com/packy Clean Air Task Force For the full list of resources referenced in this show: https://ageofmiracles.co/  Subscribe to Not Boring to get weekly doses of tech and business strategy, straight to your inbox: https://www.notboring.co/ Follow our hosts: Packy McCormick on Twitter and LinkedIn Julia DeWahl on Twitter and LinkedIn Timestamps: (00:00) Two narratives of nuclear energy (05:50) Nuclear's early history and rise (11:34) The start of the fall (19:44) Five key factors that led to nuclear's decline (20:09) Factor #1: the AEC (25:32) Factor #2: good old-fashioned economics (29:35) Factor #3: regulation (41:33) Factor #4: the environmentalists (49:13) Factor #5: the nuclear disasters (53:00) Recap of the historical lessons This show is produced and distributed by Turpentine, a network of shows and other media properties. Credits: Nancy Xu produced this season of Age of Miracles. Audio editor: Justin Golden. Video editor: Jake Salyers. Executive producers: Amelia Salyers, Packy McCormick, and Erik Torenberg. 

Age of Miracles is a narrative show that explores the complex industries that will play an important role in creating an abundant future for humanity. Episodes 1 and 2 drop October 27th. Every season, host Packy McCormick – a venture investor and writer of the popular Not Boring newsletter – brings in an expert cohost to go deep into the possibilities and challenges of making “sci-fi” dreams our reality in our lifetimes. The first season starts at the root of all progress and prosperity: unlocking 10x more clean and reliable energy by splitting and fusing atoms themselves. --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/ageofmiracles/message

‍Column Tax's mission is to democratize access to tax and finance advice to improve people's lives. The company is building the infrastructure and APIs to power year-round income tax products for all mobile banking and fintech companies. Column Tax is venture backed by Bain Capital Ventures, Felicis, Not Boring, Core Innovation Capital, and South Park Commons. In this episode of our podcast, we cover: * Building a company and how to think about competing against the large incumbants in the industry. * Gavin's background story including sales & operations roles at Dropbox, Premise Data, and Waymo. * What led Gavin and his co-founder, Michael Bock, down the path of starting Column Tax. * All the details on Column Tax and how they are approaching the business of filing taxes a different way and the level of impact their platform is having, especially with low-income families. * Advice for building a remote first company. * And so much more. Did you know that you can set up a user profile on VentureFizz? A user profile gives you access to personalized content, job seeker tools, and administrative features to manage your email subscriptions. To create a user profile and maximize your experience on VentureFizz, go to venturefizz.com/register to get started.

Send us a text message! But please include your email or a way to get in touch with you. This feature is not two way! Season 2 of The Not Boring, Boring Bookkeeping Podcast dives deeper into the real-life stories behind the numbers. In this preview, Paul Rosenblum teases what's ahead — from pricing transparency and 1099 chaos to the unexpected Tarot reading that launched his business. If you've ever wondered what it really takes to build a lasting bookkeeping career, this season peels back the layers with humor, honesty, and hard-earned wisdom.Support the show

Erik Torenberg sits down with Packy McCormick of the newsletter Not Boring and Not Boring Capital. For many, Packy is the epitome of the single creator-led media empire.Riverside.fm is a presenting sponsor of Media Empires. Go to https://creators.riverside.fm/MediaEmpires + use code MEDIAEMPIRES for 20% off individual plans.In this conversation, they discuss: how Packy evolved his content format, why a venture model is the business he wanted to build, and his plans for experimentation with Not Boring. They also analyze the opportunities for successful media businesses that should exist in the world.We're hiring across the board at Turpentine and for Erik's personal team on other projects he's incubating. He's hiring a Chief of Staff, EA, Head of Special Projects, Investment Associate, and more. For a list of JDs, check out: eriktorenberg.com.RECOMMENDED PODCAST:Founding a business is just the tip of the iceberg; the real complexity comes with scaling it. On 1 to 1000, hosts Jack Altman and Erik Torenberg dig deep into the inevitable twists and turns operators encounter along the journey of turning an idea into a business. Hear all about the tactical challenges of scaling from the people that built up the world's leading companies like Stripe, Ramp, and Lattice. Our first episode with Eric Glyman of Ramp is out now: https://link.chtbl.com/1to1000RECOMMENDED PODCAST:Run the Numbers is a weekly podcast about financial metrics and business models, designed for ambitious people operating tech startups. It's a collection of things host CJ Gustafson (CFO at Partstech and writer of Mostly Metrics) has learned and thought about in the trenches as a tech CFO. Subscribe to listen on the platform of your choice: https://link.chtbl.com/runthenumbersMedia Empires is part of the Turpentine podcast network. To learn more: turpentine.coTIMESTAMPS:(00:00) Episode Preview(01:00) Sponsor: https://creators.riverside.fm/MediaEmpires(03:07) The story and evolution of Not Boring(07:58) Breaking into venture through media(09:45) What have you chosen not to do with Not Boring?(12:11) ProductHunt for fundraise announcements(16:03) Packy's investing style and how its changed(20:46) How Packy's content has evolved(24:40) Content formats to experiment with in the future(26:29) A museum where you could see what the world is like in 2050(28:06) Rap Genius for S-1(30:30) Competing with Crunchbase or PitchBook(31:44) Not Boring in a universe where Packy didn't start a venture fund(34:30) If Packy built a tech media company today, how would he do it?(37:06) Topics in tech media to cover(39:48) Workweek vs Not Boring approach(41:07) Would Packy have taken a Workweek offer instead of starting Not Boring?(42:30) Investing in creators vs startups(45:08) Exploring other content platforms(46:21) The future of tech media(48:26) Is there a book in Not Boring's future?(50:26) Financing good businesses that are not venture-backable(52:31) The full-time fan and the idea of fans investing in media businessesLINKS:Not Boring: https://www.notboring.co/TWITTER:@eriktorenberg@packym@notboringco This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit mediaempires.substack.com

Packy is the creator of Not Boring, the #1 Business Newsletter on Substack with over 200,000 subscribers. In addition to writing, Packy invests in early-stage startups with his fund, Not Boring Capital. He also serves as an advisor to a16z crypto. Follow Packy on Twitter @packyM. [0:00] - Packy's journey to becoming a full-time writer [4:18] - Packy's decision to forego business school and work for a startup instead [7:02] - Starting a newsletter and in-person business at the beginning of COVID [12:25] - How Packy's writing has evolved since starting the Not Boring newsletter [16:00] - Modeling Not Boring after Ben Thompson and Bill Simmons' writing [18:25] - Not Boring's innovative monetization model with sponsored posts [22:31] - Packy's early experiences investing in startups with Not Boring Capital [29:24] - Scaling Not Boring with software platforms, AI, and people [33:10] - Why Packy does not use Twitter as much as he used to [36:55] - How social media could be made better [44:48] - What's next for Not Boring [49:12] - Why Packy believes it is important to be optimistic homeofjake.com

Dan Nathan and Deirdre Bosa, host of CNBC's TechCheck, discuss investors lining up for Instacart's private stock (2:00), Netflix's live ‘Love is Blind' reunion fiasco (5:00), Nvidia's double upgrade (13:00), Samsung considering ditching Google Search for Bing (16:30), the Fox/Dominion lawsuit (21:00), and Tesla (25:00). Later, Dan is joined by Joe Marchese of Human Ventures and Packy McCormick of Not Boring for a conversation about why artificial intelligence is the future (32:00), and the Twitter/Substack drama (1:12:30). Read Joe's post: Human Dot AI: How to Think About the Impact of Artificial Intelligence on Brands, Commerce, and Culture Read Packy's post: Intelligence Superabundance View our show notes here Email us at contact@riskreversal.com with any feedback, suggestions, or questions for us to answer on the pod and follow us @OkayComputerPod. We're on social: Follow Dan Nathan @RiskReversal on Twitter Follow @GuyAdami on Twitter Follow us on Instagram @RiskReversalMedia Subscribe to our YouTube page

Sam Levin is the co-founder and CEO of Melonfrost. Melonfrost is using the power of evolution and machine learning to launch the next generation of microbes that will revolutionize the fields of therapeutics, biomaterials, food, and agriculture. You'll learn more about what exactly that means in this conversation between Packy and Sam. Melonfrost, a Not Boring Capital portfolio company, recently announced its latest round of fundraising -- a $7M seed round led by Refactor Capital and Alexandria Venture Investments. Forbes did an awesome write up on the company and the round here. The company is one of the most ambitious and complex in the entire Not Boring portfolio, and is the exact type of company we are proud to back. --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/notboring/message

Michael Kelly is the co-founder of Open Forest Protocol. Open Forest Protocol (OFP) is a scalable open platform that allows forest projects of any size, from around world, to Measure, Report, and Verify (MRV) their forestation data. Through OFP, individuals, communities, NGOs, entrepreneurs, and governments are able to create transparent, immutable, proof-of-impact data that is comprehensively verified by a network of independent experts. OFP is creating the foundation for more inclusive, scalable, and data-backed financing mechanisms for nature-based climate solutions. SPONSORED BY CAUSAL: Many of us rely on Excel, and we couldn't imagine a world without it. Excel lets us quickly crunch numbers, build financial forecasts and model out scenarios to make better decisions. But modelling in Excel and G-Sheets comes with its challenges: manual data dumps, #REFs, untraceable errors, and a lack of data protection create a constant stream of manual work, stress and a lack of confidence in the work you just did — and that's where Causal comes in. Causal is a better way for working with numbers. It's like Excel minus the arcane formulas (no more Sheet1!$E$4 or VLOOKUPs), plus effortless modelling, live data integrations (accounting systems, CRMs, etc.), and beautiful interactive dashboards. And given current market conditions, every startup needs a solid financial model to steer the ship. I've worked with the Causal team to create the Startup Suite — a set of 4 template models for early stage companies. It includes your revenue model, hiring plan, P&L and runway projection: the basics for any startup to keep an eye on the finances and plan for the future. If you're a startup founder, early-stage employee or just a lover of all things data, you'll love Causal. Try Causal for free at the special Not Boring link. --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/notboring/message

Rob Cesternino and Akiva Wienerkur need a podcast, so this week they find reasons why listener-submitted topics are not boring and spin the Wheel of Ideas to learn what they will podcast about next. The post Rob & Akiva Need a Podcast #200: Rob and Akiva are Not Boring appeared first on RobHasAwebsite.com.

Rob Cesternino and Akiva Wienerkur need a podcast, so this week they find reasons why listener-submitted topics are not boring and spin the Wheel of Ideas to learn what they will podcast about next. The post Rob & Akiva Need a Podcast #200: Rob and Akiva are Not Boring appeared first on RobHasAwebsite.com.

Packy McCormick is the founder and writer of Not Boring, a Web3 and startup newsletter. He's also an investor at Not Boring Capital.Packy and Auren dive into the tech landscape on a generational scale and talk about the loss of tech optimism and what's limiting technological progress today. They discuss how to evaluate early-stage companies as investments and Packy shares his insight on what he looks for in crypto and Web3 companies. World of DaaS is brought to you by SafeGraph. For more episodes, visit safegraph.com/podcasts.You can find Auren Hoffman on Twitter at @auren and Packy at @PackyM. 

Today is the second half of our special two-parter on the state of crypto. Yesterday's theme was the case against. Today we debate the case for. In the last few weeks, use-cases have become a popular trope in the big crypto debate. Crypto has tens of thousands of people working with dozens of billions of dollars on building new technology. And I think it's fair to ask: What have they built that is better than the status quo? What, as Monty Python might ask, has blockchain ever done for us? Today's guest is Packy McCormick. Packy is the popular author of the Not Boring newsletter. In this episode, we debate use-cases for crypto, talk about whether major products are just Ponzi schemes, and discuss whether all the money sloshing around Web3 has subtly distorted the market and hurt the space. Host: Derek Thompson Guest: Packy McCormick Producer: Devon Manze Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today's guest is Ben Rollert, co-founder & CEO of Composer, a platform for investing in and building quantitative investment strategies for free in an easy to use, no-code solution. In today's episode, Ben shares what led him to start a new company in the midst of COVID mania in April 2020. He shares an overview of Composer and the different trading strategies they give you access to, including ones by the likes of Swensen, Dalio, Buffet, Markowitz, and yes, even me. We touch on how ease of mixing and matching some of these strategies, who the early users have been, and what future expansion into things like crypto and options may look like.  As we wind down, we talk about his fundraising journey and what it was like to get investments from firms like First Round, Not Boring, Basecamp and Draft Ventures. ----- Follow Meb on Twitter, LinkedIn and YouTube For detailed show notes, click here To learn more about our funds and follow us, subscribe to our mailing list or visit us at cambriainvestments.com ----- Past guests include Ed Thorp, Richard Thaler, Jeremy Grantham, Joel Greenblatt, Campbell Harvey, Ivy Zelman, Kathryn Kaminski, Jason Calacanis, Whitney Baker, Aswath Damodaran, Howard Marks, Tom Barton, and many more.  ----- Meb's invested in some awesome startups that have passed along discounts to our listeners. Check them out here! 

Packy McCormick is the writer of Not Boring, an investor at Not Boring Capital, and an advisor to the a16z Web3 Fund. Packy has a sharp intuition for general trends, and he puts in the work to understand and thoughtfully communicate his findings outward. Writing and creating content is a great way to learn and share knowledge—we would know. In this episode, we explore five of Packy's most salient articles orbiting around the crypto space. Unraveling the secret recipe for crypto (and life), managing the delicate balance between money and fun is the key to winning these games. Making money on the internet with friends is the new normal. As a talented writer and a great thinker, Packy is a born-again crypto enthusiast as of 2021. He is able to synthesize this chaotic space with fresh eyes, bringing prior knowledge to guide his understanding. ------ ✨ DEBRIEF ✨ | Ryan & David's Unfiltered Thoughts on the Episode https://shows.banklesshq.com/p/112-packy-debrief  ------