Podcasts about mennonite church usa

We live in a world often defined by borders, fear, and division, but what if we could reimagine migration not as a threat, but as a sacred journey? Today, we're diving into a conversation that challenges what we think we know about immigrants, hospitality, and what it truly means to love our neighbor. I'm sitting down with Isaac Villegas, a Mennonite pastor and author of "Migrant God," who will take us on a transformative exploration of how faith calls us to see strangers not as enemies, but as gifts from God. We'll unpack powerful stories of hope, discuss the biblical foundations of migration, and discover how resurrection life can defeat our culture of fear. From sanctuary churches protecting undocumented families to profound moments of unexpected hospitality, this conversation will challenge you to see the world - and your neighbors - through a lens of radical love. So join us as we navigate how we love our neighbors no matter who they are. Isaac is an ordained minister in the Mennonite Church USA. His pastoral vocation has involved him in community organizing for immigrant justice.Isaac's Book:Migrant GodIsaac's Recommendation:SanturioSubscribe to Our Substack: Shifting CultureConnect with Joshua: jjohnson@allnations.usGo to www.shiftingculturepodcast.com to interact and donate. Every donation helps to produce more podcasts for you to enjoy.Follow on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, Threads, Bluesky or YouTubeConsider Giving to the podcast and to the ministry that my wife and I do around the world. Just click on the support the show link below Ashley T Lee PodcastAshley T. Lee Podcast will cover many life issues such as overcoming stress, anxiety...Listen on: Apple Podcasts Support the show

Migrant God takes readers to the front lines of immigrant justice activism where Christians are putting hope into action. From Tijuana, Mexico, to Douglas, Arizona, across North Carolina and beyond, Isaac Villegas cuts a new path through worn-out talking points and bears witness to loving solidarity among Christians—both with and without US citizenship. Along the way, he offers a theologically astute and politically rich vision of beloved community. Centering the stories of people who have been transformed through their dedication to the work of collective wholeness, Villegas begins each chapter “on the ground”—with protests in the streets, hospitality in migrant shelters, and shared meals in home kitchens. He then engages in biblical, theological, and political reflection to explore the significance—for our faith and our world—of these sites of collective work. Migrant God is a stirring read for anyone who wants to shift conversations about immigration toward a more holistic Christian vision of life lived in solidarity with migrants.1. Why are political discussions about immigrants so polarizing?Common phrases used to describe the issue are “broken immigration system" and "the crisis at the border”. What are some things to consider when thinking about it this way?2. In the book you share a story about being arrested after a standoff with Immigration and Customs Enforcement. Why was it important for you to participate in the standoff?3. How do you lead the reader from the horrors of the border's violence toward a Christ centered way to thinking?4. How can the realities of immigration shape our understanding of God?5. Is a Christian to live in solidarity with immigrants? What does this look like?Isaac Samuel Villegas is an ordained minister in the Mennonite Church USA who is involved in the work of community organizing and activism for immigrant justice. He is also a columnist for The Christian Century and Anabaptist World. 

Have a comment? Send us a text! (We read all of them but can't reply). Email us: Will@faithfulpoliticspodcast.comWhat does it mean to follow a "Migrant God"? In this episode, Pastor Josh Burtram and political host Will Wright sit down with Isaac Samuel Villegas, an ordained Mennonite minister and advocate for immigrant justice. His new book, Migrant God: A Christian Vision for Immigrant Justice, offers a deeply theological and politically urgent perspective on faith and migration.Isaac shares his personal story of growing up in Los Angeles and Tucson as the son of immigrants, his journey into ministry, and his activism in immigrant justice. The conversation explores biblical themes of migration, the role of the church in advocacy, and the moral contradictions in how many Christians approach immigration policy. Isaac also recounts powerful personal stories—from organizing Holy Thursday vigils at ICE detention centers to witnessing communities offering sanctuary to migrants.Why do so many American churches struggle to engage in immigration justice? How do biblical teachings challenge modern political perspectives on migration? And how can pastors preach on this issue without alienating their congregations? Join us for a thought-provoking discussion that bridges theology, policy, and lived experience.Guest Bio:Isaac Samuel Villegas is an ordained minister in the Mennonite Church USA and a passionate advocate for immigrant justice. He writes for The Christian Century and Anabaptist World, and his latest book, Migrant God, explores the intersection of faith, justice, and migration. Through his work in community organizing and activism, he challenges Christians to embrace a theology rooted in solidarity with migrants.Resources & Links:

Justin talks about how the Trump administration's mass deportation efforts are impacting churches. He also discusses JD Vance's speech in Munich and the conversation around Elon Musk's 13th child.Show Notes: https://www.usccb.org/news/2025/human-dignity-not-dependent-persons-citizenship-or-immigration-statushttps://www.newsweek.com/thousands-sign-petition-ice-raids-2031157https://www.law.georgetown.edu/icap/wp-content/uploads/sites/32/2025/02/Mennonite-Church-USA-v.-U.S.-Department-of-Homeland-Security-Complaint.pdfhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cbIp--HGxO8&t=4161s Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Fetus John the Baptist knew exactly who Jesus was, according to Luke. Adult John the Baptist sends emissaries to ask Jesus who he is. Jesus does not answer John's question, but rather instructs the question-askers to simply report what they see and what they hear. It seems that, according to Jesus, his identity must be shown, enacted, embodied for it to be real. Similarly, our Anabaptist faith has a centuries-long history of being done, enacted, embodied. Our faith is a lived faith and has traditionally been proclaimed more in deed than in word. This is why the decision of our denomination to be the named plaintiff in a lawsuit against the Dept. of Homeland Security (Mennonite Church USA et al. v. United States Department of Homeland Security et al.) is completely in line with our 500-year history of following Jesus. Because our faith IS caring for our neighbor. So when the U.S. Government tries to prevent us from doing that, the free exercise of our religion is compromised and we must resist.Sermon begins at minute marker 6:18Luke 7:18-35ResourcesBibleWorm podcast: Episode 626 – Are You Really the One?, Amy Robertson and Robert Williamson, JrIris de León-Hartshorn, “Our Anabaptist Witness as Mennonites,” (theological basis for legal action taken by Mennonite Church USA - see link below) February 12, 2025.“MC USA and more than two dozen Christian and Jewish denominations and associations sue to protect religious freedoms,” February 11, 2025.Mary H. Schertz, Luke, Believers Church Bible Commentary (Herald Press, 2023), 166.“Orthopraxy,” wikipedia article.Image: A valentine to Mennonite Church USA: “Roses are red | Violets are blue | You sued the President | I think I love you!”VT Hymn 428 Praise with Joy the World's Creator. Text: Iona Community (Scotland), 1985, alt., © 1987 WGRG, Iona Community (admin. GIA Publications, Inc.) Music: John Goss (England), The Supplemental Hymn and Tune Book, 1869. Permission to podcast the music in this service obtained from ONE LICENSE, license #A-726929. All rights reserved.

In this episode of Called to Be Bad I talk with Sarah Werner. Sarah is an editor, writer and pastor living in Columbus, Ohio. You can find Sarah's full bio in the description. Sarah is the author of the book, Rooted Faith: Practices of Living Well on a Fragile Planet. In this episode we discuss Sarah's book, in particular the idea of Animism and how it relates to the Christian faith. We talk about how all of creation is alive, including rocks! And how connecting and respecting everything wild around us–is both biblical and beneficial to our daily lives. There is lots of talk of squirrels, birds, and of course chickens. There is special mention of divine pigeons, so watch out for that. Sarah's Bio: Sarah Werner is an editor, writer and pastor living in Columbus, Ohio. She is the Communications Coordinator for Central District Conference in the Mennonite Church USA and the leader of Olentangy Wild Church. She teaches ecotheology and biblical studies courses at PATHWAYS, a theological education program affiliated with the United Church of Christ. She has a Master of Divinity from Candler School of Theology at Emory University and a PhD from the University of Florida in Religion. In her free time she enjoys wandering in the woods and backyard bird watching. Click HERE for her blog.Resources Mentioned: Sarah's Book: Rooted Faith: Practices for Living Well on a Fragile Planet https://www.mennomedia.org/9781513813165/rooted-faith/Other books: An Altar in the World: A Geology of Faith by Barbra Brown Taylor  https://www.amazon.com/s?k=altar+in+the+world&hvadid=409960988344&hvdev=c&hvlocphy=1017117&hvnetw=g&hvqmt=e&hvrand=14373506741575625760&hvtargid=kwd-11416552781&hydadcr=24657_11410751&tag=googhydr-20&ref=pd_sl_97d507hy7p_eBecoming Animal: An Earthly Cosmology  by David Abram https://www.amazon.com/Becoming-Animal-Cosmology-David-Abram/dp/0375713697Becoming Rooted: One Hundred Days of RecoSupport the Show.Follow us for more ✨bad✨ content: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/calledtobebad_podcast/ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/calledtobebad Website: https://calledtobebad.buzzsprout.com/ Want to become part of the ✨baddie✨ community? Support us on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/calledtobebad Have a ✨bad✨ topic you want to talk about on the show? Get in touch with host, Mariah Martin at: calledtobebad@gmail.com #ctbb #podcast #podcastersoffacebook ...

Jonathan Brenneman, a Palestinian Mennonite and one of the authors of Mennonite Church USA's “Seeking Peace in Israel and Palestine: A Resolution for Mennonite Church USA,” discusses organizing for peace and activism at the Capitol. Learn more: https://www.mennoniteaction.org/ Help sustain the work of RLC: www.redletterchristians.org/donate/ To check out what RLC is up to, please visit us www.redletterchristians.org  Follow us on Twitter: @RedLetterXians Instagram: @RedLetterXians Follow Shane on Instagram: @shane.claiborne Twitter: @ShaneClaiborne Intro song by Common Hymnal: https://commonhymnal.com/ 

Season 3: I Believe Anisa Leonard shares her “I believe” statement. The post Anisa Leonard – Season 3, Episode 4 first appeared on Mennonite Church USA.

Season 3: I Believe Rev. Amy Zimbleman shares her “I Believe” statement. The post Rev. Amy Zimbelman – Season 3, Episode first appeared on Mennonite Church USA.

Season 3: I Believe Host Bonita shares her “I Beleive” statement. The post Bonita Rockingham – Season 3, Episode 2 first appeared on Mennonite Church USA.

Sarah Renee Werner offers a meditation and reflection on the seasonal changes we experience around us. Her piece, "Breathe" is published in our current Autumn issue. Sarah Werner is the communications coordinator for Central District Conference of Mennonite Church USA and pastor of Olentangy Wild Church in Columbus, Ohio. She is the author of Rooted Faith: Practices for Living Well on a Fragile Planet and enjoys camping, birding, and nature photography in her free time. --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/vita-poetica/message Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/vita-poetica/support

In this episode we talk with Dr. Chris Gooding about the process of rehabilitating from human trafficking. Dr. Gooding is Assistant Teaching Professor in the Theology Department at Marquette University, a member of the Mennonite Church USA, and the author of the new book that we discuss in this episode, Beyond Slavery: Christian Theology and Rehabilitation from Human Trafficking (published by Cascade). During our conversation, Dr. Gooding tells us about his firsthand experience working with survivors and social workers in India, pointing out the complexities involved when survivors seek rehabilitation from trafficking, and he offers a theological vision to undergird this important work. Team members on the episode from The Two Cities include: Dr. John Anthony Dunne.

Rev. Rachel Ringenberg Miller, denominational minister for Ministerial Leadership for Mennonite Church USA, will show us how Jesus models compassion for others and for himself. Leadership involves knowing when to do the work of ministry yourself, when to delegate and when to practice self-care. Matt. 14:13-33.

This week Dr. Reyes talks to Rev. Dr. Angela Gorrell about her struggles in early childhood as she sought spaces to belong and the supportive family and community that cultivated her early gifts in writing and public speaking. She is passionate about creating collaborative communities where people can prevent illnesses of the soul, unlamented pain, and uncultivated belonging.Angela Williams Gorrell is an author and consultant, working  with people and teams to help them thrive. She is an ordained pastor in the Mennonite Church USA. Her most recent work includes the book Always On: Practicing Faith in a New Media Landscape and she co-hosts The Grief Sisters podcast. You can find out more about Angela at angelagorrell.com.Content Warning: There is brief talk of suicide in this episode. If you or someone you know is experiencing a mental health crisis, please reach out for help. Call 988 to get connected to the National Suicide Prevention Line.Portrait Illustration by: TriyasMusic by: @siryalibeatsRate, review, and subscribe to Sound of the Genuine on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen to podcasts.

We're joined this week by members of the planning team for the Youth and Young Adult Climate Summit taking place this summer as part of MennoCon 2023. This unique event will include experts in climate change, spiritual activism and social justice to explore ways that youth and young adults ages 14-25 can put their faith to work to address this crisis. Participants in this episode include recent college grad, Lynn Hur; past ~ing Podcast guest Lorraine Stutzman Amstutz who is the Mennonite Church USA minister for Peace and Justice; Jennifer Schrock, leader of Mennonite Creation Care Network; and Doug Kaufman, director of Pastoral Ecology at Anabaptist Climate Collaborative. We'll hear about their vision for this conference event, as well as what will be included for participants in this unique opportunity. We hope you consider advertising with ~ing Podcast. Are you connected to an organization with similar values or themes to our guests? Consider becoming an episode or season sponsor! we'll help you reach our growing audience. To find out more, email theing@mennomedia.org A written transcript of this episode is available at our website - https://www.mennomedia.org/ing-podcast/ ~ing Podcast is a production of MennoMedia, a nonprofit Publisher that creates thoughtful, Anabaptist resources to enrich faith in a complex world. To find out more, visit us online at MennoMedia.org --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/ing-pod/message

In this interview we talk to Eric Massanari, Chair of the SDI Board of Directors. Eric invites all SDI Members to join him and the rest of the SDI Board for virtual teatime gatherings on March 10, 2023. Learn about what it's like to serve on the Board and bring your questions! Bring your tea or coffee to this informal online gathering on March 10th at either 10am Pacific, or at 4pm Pacific! Register here. On a related note, the Board is accepting applications and nominations for new members to serve. the role comes fiduciary, visionary, strategic planning, and Executive Director oversight responsibilities. As part of this Board's commitment to Diversity and Inclusion, we strongly encourage people from diverse backgrounds, gender identities, ethnicities, nationalities, and religious traditions and/or spiritual orientations to apply. We deeply value, cherish, and encourage applicants from these diverse areas, and others.” Eric Massanari (he/him) is an ordained pastor in the Mennonite tradition, living in northern Washington state where he serves as the Executive Conference Minister for the Pacific Northwest Mennonite Conference of Mennonite Church USA. He also maintains a private practice in spiritual direction. Eric has served on the SDI Board of Directors since 2018 and brings a passion for inter-faith and inter-spiritual connections, community formation, peace and justice building, and companioning people who are at diverse places on the spiritual journey. An avid poet and essayist, Eric is a contributing author of An Open Place: The Ministry of Group Spiritual Direction. In his own words: “I celebrate how spiritual companioning takes so many vital forms across time, place, traditions and cultures. In its myriad expressions it's a practice that our world needs now more than ever, as together we seek the paths that make for enduring peace.”

Mennonite Central Committee and Mennonite Church USA are partnering in a new webinar series, Beyond incarceration: A hard look at dismantling the prison system and building healthy communities. In today's episode, ~ing Podcast host, Ben Wideman, is joined by Lorraine Stutzman Amstutz, MCUSA Denominational Minister for Peace and Justice, and Daniela Lázaro-Manalo, Racial Equity Education and Advocacy Coordinator for MCC, to learn more about the ways this webinar series can help our faith communities to actively understand and work against these complex systems of confinement. You can learn more about this series by visiting this website to hear recordings of past webinars, and sign up for future webinars. We hope you consider advertising with ~ing Podcast. Are you connected to an organization with similar values or themes to our guests? Consider becoming an episode or season sponsor! we'll help you reach our growing audience. To find out more, email theing@mennomedia.org A written transcript of this episode is available at our website - https://www.mennomedia.org/ing-podcast/ ~ing Podcast is a production of MennoMedia, a nonprofit Publisher that creates thoughtful, Anabaptist resources to enrich faith in a complex world. To find out more, visit us online at MennoMedia.org --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/ing-pod/message

"I have been at war with my body since I was young." About today's speaker: Joanne Gallardo is Conference Minister for Indiana-MI Mennonite Conference of the Mennonite Church USA in Goshen, Indiana. Originally from northwest Ohio, Joanne is a graduate of Goshen College and Anabaptist Mennonite Biblical Seminary in Elkhart, Indiana. In addition to church work, Joanne has spent part of her career working in mental health. In her spare time, Joanne writes, sings in a women's choir and enjoys spending time with friends.   Advent for Every Body is a daily podcast exploring how human bodies bear God in our world. Listen every day in Advent right here in the "Sermons from Trinity Cathedral Portland" podcast feed.

To read more about my critique of the Mennonite Church USA 2021 Membership Survey subscribe to my daily blog and website at www.centerforpropheticimagination.org.

To subscribe to the new podcast and other resources for 9.95 annually go to https://centerforpropheticimagination.org

"When we say survivor centered, what we mean is that the way forward, decisions, next steps, proceses, are based fundamentally in mindfulness for what will be just, and healthy, and good for the person who was most directly harmed, which in situations of abuse are the survivors." *CW: this episode is about advocacy for those who have experienced sexual abuse/assault--specifically within faith communitiesIn this episode of Called to be Bad I talk with Stephanie Krehbiel and Hilary Jerome Scarsella (see their updated bio's below) about their work at "Into Account" a survivor-based advocacy nonprofit that works to  bring justice to those who have been harmed--specifically by faith leaders or communities. This will be a two-part series. In this first part we discuss the work of Into Account and what exactly "survivor based advocacy work" means. In part two we go into what it is like to experience severe backlash for doing this work. Bio: Hilary Jerome Scarsella is Assistant Professor of Ethics and Director of Gender, Sexual, and Racial Justice Studies at Colgate Rochester Crozer Divinity School in Rochester, New York. Her teaching and research make use of intersectionally feminist, queer, trauma, and critical race theories to promote justice and flourishing in gendered, sexual, and racial terms. Hilary is also Director of Theological Integrity for Into Account, a national nonprofit that accompanies survivors working for justice and accountability in Christian contexts. Both her academic and her advocacy work focus on developing effective practices for stopping sexual violence and cultivating communities of sexual justice, care, and vitality. She has published widely both in academic and popular forums.Stephanie Krehbiel is the Executive Director and co-founder of Into Account. She works directly with survivors confronting churches and other religious institutions, accompanying them through reporting processes, investigations, media coverage, and public storytelling. As an advocate, she has worked with over a hundred individual survivors from a range of denominational backgrounds, from Catholic to Amish to nondenominational evangelicals. Her work has been covered in the New York Times, National Catholic Reporter, the Star-Tribune, and numerous smaller publications. Dr. Krehbiel holds a PhD in American Studies from University of Kansas with a concentration in Women, Gender, and Sexuality studies, and her work as an advocate began during ethnographic research on institutional violence against LGBTQ+ people in the Mennonite Church USA. As a collaborator with her Into Account colleagues, Dr. Krehbiel co-wrote a report based on the testimony of forty-four  survivors of sexual abuse, assault, and harassment perpetrated by Catholic liturgical composer David Haas, exposing coverups and complicity in the liturgical music industry as well as the Archidiocese of St. Paul and Minneapolis and contributing to Haas's lifetime ban from the industry events he once used to target victims. Her posts for the Into Account organizational blog have covered topics such as Title IX regulation changes, the hidden dangers of organizational “lifestyle” policies, sexual abuse in collegiate sports, and the social consequences of institutional betrayal. She is a frequent guest speaker in university and seminary classrooms.Resources: Into Account Website: https://intoaccount.org/Our Stories Untold: https://www.ourstoriesuntold.com/Follow us for more ✨bad✨ content: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/calledtobebad_podcast/Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/calledtobebadWebsite: https://calledtobebad.buzzsprout.com/Sponsor of this episode: https://www.arthumorsoul.com/Want to become part of the ✨baddie✨ community? Support us on PatreSupport the show

Jan 6th Kabuki theater (0:28) A gay bar in Texas held a “Drag Your Kids to Pride” event which sparks a larger discussion of psychology, mental health, human nature, and why adults push this and other issue on children. (4:42) The Mennonite Church USA is not permitting membership of LGBT members. On the other hand, a group of Tampa Bay Rays players chose to not participate in the team's pride night. (26:07) Cassidy shares a thought she had while reading Proverbs to Rev. Bev to hear his thoughts on the topic. (32:07) Here is a great ethics question to consider: How does “my body, my choice” apply when it comes to conjoined twins? (38:00) Two workers fell into a vat of chocolate at the Mars Wrigley factory. (42:02) #January6thHearings #Jan6thHearings #Pride #LGBTQ #MLB 

A debate over the best legal approach to abortion and how it informs resolutions within the Southern Baptist Convention has resurfaced as messengers are set to gather for the denomination's annual meeting next week.The Mennonite Church USA has voted to retire denomination-wide Membership Guidelines that prohibited pastors from performing same-sex weddings.A specific incident is suggestive that government has been pressuring social media platforms to suppress certain content about the pandemic.Actor Kirk Cameron says his new movie with filmmaker brothers Alex and Stephen Kendrick, “Lifemark” is a “pro-family, pro-love, pro forgiveness” film in a newly released first look trailer.Subscribe to this Podcast Apple Podcasts Spotify Google Podcasts Overcast Get the Edifi App Download for iPhone Download for Android Subscribe to Our NewsletterClick here to get the top headlines delivered to your inbox every morning!Links to the News Southern Baptists debate how to best be pro-life | Church & Ministries News Mennonite Church USA to allow pastors to perform gay weddings | Church & Ministries News Google annual meeting debates COVID censorship | Analysis News Louisiana bans biological males from in girls' sports | Politics News Texas lawmaker wants to ban drag shows for kids | U.S. News Celebration Church sues to evict Stovall and Kerri Weems | Church & Ministries News First-look trailer released for pro-family Kirk Cameron movie | Entertainment News Judge declares mistrial in Amanda Blackburn murder case | U.S. News

How should Christians view authority and leadership in the church? How do we faithfully navigate the complexities of power structures?   Responding to the heartbreaking reality of abuse of power in the church, Jon Carlson, pastor of Forest Hills Mennonite Church and Moderator-Elect of Mennonite Church USA, joins Dru and Rebekah for a discussion drawing from Scripture, ministry experiences, Anabaptist history, and nonviolent theology. Check out bonus segments and regular updates here: patreon.com/Thatjesuspodcast More writing, podcasts, and resources available at kingdomoutpost.org --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/thatjesuspodcast/message

On this episode of On Leading we are speaking with Glen Guyton, Executive Director, Mennonite Church USA. Welcome to on Leading – a video podcast series exploring conversations on leading with authenticity with leaders, staff and board members of MHS member organizations, as well as MHS staff. We hope that through these brief snippets, you'll hear perspectives on leadership that inspire you and connect you with this caring community. While the onset of the COVID-19 pandemic inspired this undertaking, we know that leading with authenticity is a calling that extends beyond the complexities of this moment. Leadership happens in any role within the organization.

We continue through Black History Month on ~ing Podcast, this time as host Rev. Allison Maus sits down with Dr. Regina Shands Stoltzfus. She is a Professor and the Director of Peace, Justice, and Conflict Studies at Goshen College. Regina is co-founder of the Roots of Justice Anti-Oppression program (formerly Damascus Road Anti-Racism Program) and has worked widely in peace education. In this week's episode we look back at Regina's origin story, her passion for this work, and what gives her hope for the future of the Church in this challenging space. Allison and Regina will also discuss themes from Regina's new book, coauthored with Dr. Tobin Miller-Shearer (former ~ing Podcast guest on episode #27) titled Been in the Struggle: Pursuing an Antiracist Spirituality, available now from Herald Press! A written transcript of this episode is available at our website - https://www.mennomedia.org/ing-podcast/ Today's episode is supported by Goshen College, a private liberal arts college in Goshen, Indiana. It was founded in 1894 as the Elkhart Institute of Science, Industry and the Arts, and is affiliated with Mennonite Church USA. Today's episode is also supported by The Center for Justice and Peacebuilding and Eastern Mennonite Seminary, two graduate programs at Eastern Mennonite University. Find out more at - https://emu.edu/ing/ ~ing Podcast is a production of MennoMedia, a nonprofit Publisher that creates thoughtful, Anabaptist resources to enrich faith in a complex world. To find out more, visit us online at MennoMedia.org --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/ing-pod/message

As we begin celebrating Black History Month, ~ing Podcast host Rev. Dr. Dennis Edwards sits down with Glen Guyton, Executive Director of Mennonite Church USA, the first African American to serve in that role. In this week's episode, they engage in conversation centered around leading in today's world, navigating church dynamics, and transforming faith spaces through church leadership. They will also mention themes from Glen's new book, Reawakened: How Your Congregation Can Spark Lasting Change, available now from Herald Press! This is the second half of a conversation from the first season of ~ing Podcast. You can go back and listen to the first part in episode #41 - "Reawakening." A written transcript of this episode is available at our website - https://www.mennomedia.org/ing-podcast/ We're grateful for the support of Mennonite Church USA, an Anabaptist, Christian denomination, in helping to sponsor today's episode. Today's episode is also supported by The Center for Justice and Peacebuilding and Eastern Mennonite Seminary, two graduate programs at Eastern Mennonite University. Find out more at - https://emu.edu/ing/ ~ing Podcast is a production of MennoMedia, a nonprofit Publisher that creates thoughtful, Anabaptist resources to enrich faith in a complex world. To find out more, visit us online at MennoMedia.org --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/ing-pod/message

Over the past years, Mennonite Church USA received requests to provide an Anabaptist-grounded resource for clergy and congregations to engage in learning about the call for police abolition. In today's episode, ~ing host, Ben Wideman is joined by three of the people - Kris Henderson, Ben Tapper, and Rev. Melissa Florer Bixler (past guest on season 1 of ~ing Podcast) - all of whom who helped create a new curriculum titled, Defund the Police? An Abolition Curriculum. This resource is an initial guide for congregations who are desiring to begin or continue their reflection on what it means to engage the forces of state, their commitments to non-violence and how to act to end policing and police brutality. We'll discuss why a project like this makes sense for churches, what they learned during its creation, and how our faith might call us to navigate this topic. Share your thoughts with us! Send us a voicemail by visiting this link - https://anchor.fm/ing-pod/message - or by emailing theing@mennomedia.org A written transcript of this episode is available at our website - https://www.mennomedia.org/ing-podcast/ We're grateful for the support of Mennonite Church USA, an Anabaptist, Christian denomination, in helping to sponsor today's episode. Today's episode is also supported by The Center for Justice and Peacebuilding and Eastern Mennonite Seminary, two graduate programs at Eastern Mennonite University. Find out more at - https://emu.edu/ing/ ~ing Podcast is a production of MennoMedia, a nonprofit Publisher that creates thoughtful, Anabaptist resources to enrich faith in a complex world. To find out more, visit us online at MennoMedia.org --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/ing-pod/message

On today's episode of Table Talk Radio we discuss our Buzzwords and then dust off and play Name That Church Body.

Sue Park-Hur, denominational minister of transformative peacemaking at Mennonite Church USA. #BringThePeace #BeTransformed

How do we disciple young people in the church? How can we help them discover their calling in a cluttered world? In this episode of the Ohio Conference Cast podcast, Glen Guyton, the executive director of Mennonite Church USA, considers these questions and reflects on his years in youth ministry.  He notes that we often don't realize the long-term effects… Read More » The post Equipping youth workers — an interview with Glen Guyton appeared first on Ohio Mennonite Conference.

Iris de León-Hartshorn has served Mennonite Central Committee (1996-2007) and Mennonite Church USA (2007-present) in various leadership roles. Previously the denomination's director of transformative peacemaking, the Portland, Oregon, resident is now its associate executive director for operations, a new position that encapsulates the roles of chief of staff and key advisor to the executive director. She has been a strong advocate for racial and gender justice in the church and its related institutions.

In the inaugural episode of the second season of Teaching Peace, Jason Storbakken and Addie Banks are in conversation with Sue Park-Hur, Denominational Minister for Transformative Peacemaking in the Mennonite Church USA, and co-director of ReconciliAsian, a peace center in Los Angeles specializing in conflict transformation and restorative justice for immigrant churches. #BringThePeace

~ing Podcast host Rev. Dr. Dennis Edwards sits down with Glen Guyton, Executive Director of Mennonite Church USA in this week's episode. They will be talking about their own family journey and a bit of the history of racial justice in this country, as well as themes from Glen's new book, Reawakened: How Your Congregation Can Spark Lasting Change, available now from Herald Press! Today's episode was brought to you by Mosaic Mennonite Conference, a community of congregations and non-profit ministries committed to living like Jesus together in our broken and beautiful world. Find out more at MosaicMennonites.org We are grateful for the continued support of Everence, a faith-based financial services organization who believe it's possible to incorporate your faith and values with your decisions about money. To take a closer look at the difference it makes when your financial services company is rooted in something more than making a profit visit Everence.com. Securities offered through ProEquities Inc., member FINRA/SIPC. ~ing Podcast is a production of MennoMedia, a nonprofit Publisher that creates thoughtful, Anabaptist resources to enrich faith in a complex world. To find out more, visit us online at MennoMedia.org --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/ing-pod/message

In this episode, Angela talks with Sushama Austin-Connor about her research on joy and her book The Gravity of Joy: A Story of Being Lost and Found. They consider how we can study joy with a theological lens, how our emotions are always teaching us something, and how joy is a realization of relatedness and connection. Dr. Angela Williams Gorrell is an ordained pastor and assistant professor of practical theology at Baylor's George W. Truett Theological Seminary. Prior to joining the faculty at Baylor, she was an Associate Research Scholar at the Yale Center for Faith & Culture, working on the Theology of Joy and the Good Life Project, and a lecturer in Divinity and Humanities at Yale University in New Haven, Connecticut. She received both her Ph.D. in Practical Theology and MDiv at Fuller Theological Seminary, and her BA in Youth Ministry at Azusa Pacific University. She is the author of a new book, The Gravity of Joy: A Story of Being Lost and Found, which shares findings of the joy project while addressing America's opioid and suicide crises. Intro (00:01): What is joy? What is the difference between joy and happiness? What's the relationship between despair and joy? Angela Williams Gorrell has been exploring these questions. Angela is Assistant Professor of Practical Theology at George W. Truett Theological Seminary and an ordained pastor in the Mennonite Church USA. In this episode. Sushama Austin-Connor talks with Angela about her work recently published in the book entitled, "The Gravity of Joy: The Story of Being Lost and Found". Together, they explore what it means to study joy with a theological lens and how joy can be sustained alongside sorrow. [light percussion music and the sound of a water droplet] You are listening to The Distillery at Princeton Theological Seminary.  Sushama (00:50): I was very interested in learning more stories and illustrations from your childhood and your background. Can you give us even a more full idea of your background and your childhood in life leading up to your academic career? Angela (01:04): Yeah, sure. Thank you so much for having me today. It's great to be talking with you. I grew up in Eastern Kentucky in Appalachia, in a little town called Pikeville, and it might -- actually in Appalachia though, like, it could be called a big town. [laughter] But I grew up there, spent the first seven and a half years of my life there and really grew up in church, went to church the first Sunday after I was born, as my parents like to tell the story. They like literally, you know -- back then, babies, they just, they didn't worry about them, you know, catching anything. I don't think [laughter]. Sushama (01:39): That's right. [laughter] Angela (01:39): They're like, "Hey, you were born three days ago, we're taking you to church and passing it around to everybody." [laughter] So that's me, and I've been going to church my entire life. The church has really been a sanctuary to me, a safe haven, which I know it hasn't been that way... I mean, and not, and not in every respect. And certainly there's been a lot of hard moments, being a part of Christian communities, but in many respects, I'm very grateful to say, especially youth group, I think was a really powerful safe haven for me and my life. But, anyhow, my parents got divorced when I was seven and a half, and that meant that my mom decided to move us to Lexington, which is in central Kentucky. And I, you know, I'm really grateful that that happened because of some opportunities that I got in Lexington. Mostly two things that I think are important for people to know about me. One is that I've been writing since I was like -- could write. Like basically when I could write things, I began to tell stories and to write poetry. And so it's interesting to look back at like my second-grade self and the kinds of poems that I wrote. But I've always been an observer of life, like someone who deeply... Like my friends like to say "Angela lives in the deep end of life." [laughter] Angela (02:56): So, yeah! So I, when I got to Lexington, one thing that was really important was that I got to attend The School for the Creative and Performing Arts. So, from fourth to eighth grade, every single day for two hours a day, I wrote, which many children can not say that. But, we all have -- we had to all different majors at our school. So some people did arts -- like did art for a couple hours. Some people did dance, singing, you know, violin, piano, whatever. But for me, it was creative writing. And so that was very formative for me and important. And then the second thing that happened was that I got a special speech pathologist to help me because, as I described in The Gravity of Joy, that I was born deaf. And so for several years, basically until I was in sixth grade, I had a really hard time communicating with other people. Unless you knew me really well, it was difficult to understand me because I had a really significant speech impediment. And so it actually made it hard to make friends in elementary school and to be myself, 'cause I constantly was fighting for my words, which is interesting because... I say that to say -- today too, that the two things that I am most known for other than teaching are writing and speaking, and until I was in middle school, I couldn't be understood by people very well. So, but in Lexington, you know, I had this, like this special speech pathologist who really invested in my life -- for three years, every week -- and then went to the school that was very formative and important for me. After high school, I went to school to become a youth minister. So I, you know, I went to school, college, I got my bachelor of arts is in youth ministry from Azusa Pacific University in Los Angeles, lived in LA for 13 years. And the whole time I was living in Los Angeles, I kind of... I kept one foot in the church. I was always in ministry, mostly in youth ministry, but on a lot of preaching teams as well and doing family ministry of course, and then one foot in the academy. So I was kind of like always getting a degree, but also hanging out in the church. And for me as a practical theologian, that's super important because it was like, you know, I would be in the church. I would be among Christians in community. And I would be seeing the sorts of things that were keeping people awake at night. And then I'd be like, okay, as a researcher, as you know, I'm a Ph.D. student, for example, I want to think more about that in relationship to their faith. But then as I was, you know -- when you're in the academy, when you're getting degrees and you're reading books, like you're like, okay, but what's going on in people's real lives? Sushama (05:31): Right, right. Angela (05:32): Like, how did this relate to people's everyday experiences? And so, for me as a practical theologian, it was very important to kind of always be in ministry and -- while learning in the academy. And I still to this day try to be a very grounded theologian. So while I was finishing up my PhD in Los Angeles is when I got an email about a job at Yale University, working at the Yale Center for Faith and Culture. And I received that job in March of 20-- I accepted that job, excuse me, in March of 2016 and ended up moving to Connecticut. And that's how I'm... yeah. So I went from Kentucky to Los Angeles to Connecticut, and then I worked on the Theology of Joy and the Good Life Project. That's what I was recruited to Yale to be on that research team. And then, after the project ended, I applied for this job that I currently have at Baylor University. And so I moved to Waco, Texas in fall 2019 to become a professor of practical theology at Baylor University's Truett Seminary. Sushama (06:33): That's great. That's great. I wanted to jump right into the Life Worth Living course, but before I do that, I want to talk a little bit about what you mentioned about keeping one foot in the church and one foot in the academy. Because I know in our work in continuing education, where this podcast series is housed, that's kind of our work. That's what we hope we're doing well. So what do you feel that doing your work in both of those spheres, what does it offer to you when you're out and about talking to pastors and their congregations or to pastors and lay leadership? Angela (07:13): I think that, you know, for -- like, people ask me, you know, what are you an expert in, Angela? Like, what do you research? And, certainly I can say a few things that I think that over the years I've become more adept at talking about, like the ability to help people like make sense of like, like the meaning and purpose in their lives, joy, new media. Those are some of the things I've focused on a lot. But in general, I tell people that I feel called to research the things that matter to people and to shine the light of the gospel on them. And I think that as I hold both the experiences that I have in Christian communities and the research that I do together, like, the more that I hold those together, I think the more that pastors feel like, you know, "Yeah, Angela, the things that you're doing and talking about, they do relate to our congregants lives. They do relate to everyday Christians lives." And I think that there's something that feels to then pastors, like, very honest about it. Where they're like, "Okay, you're a theologian who does care about what's happening in people's lives every day. That's good." Sushama (08:22): Talk to me about the Life Worth Living course at Yale, because, in doing the research, I realized that it has a profound impact on people and is really well known. Yes. I would love to hear more about what that course is and what it entailed and how you got to be a part of that. Angela (08:39): Yeah. So, seven years ago, Miroslav Volf -- and that's whose research team that I was on and anybody who, you know, most people are familiar with -- if they know about Miroslav's work, they know about his very, very famous book *Exclusion and Embrace*, and he is just an extraordinary systematic theologian and person. And I'm very grateful that I had the privilege and the honor of being on his research team for the Theology of Joy the Good Life Project. Seven years ago, Miroslav and my colleague, our colleague, Ryan McAnnally-Linz, who still works at the Yale Center for Faith and Culture, they read two books that were really pivotal to them. For them. One was "Education's End" by Anthony Kronman and another book is called "College: What It Was, What It Is, and What It Should Be". And both of these books argue that the meaning of life used to be central to the college experience, that the search, the examination of, and the articulation of meaning and purpose used to be not just a part of the college experience, but actually like fundamental to it. Angela (09:52): And so they wondered what would it look like to bring the meaning of life back to the classroom. So they created a course called Life Worth Living, and they pitched it to the humanities department. I mean, they're housed at the divinity school and Miroslav is a professor at the divinity school, but they wanted to do it with Yale undergraduates. So they reached out to the humanities department there. They said, sure, you can have 14 students for a semester and do Life Worth Living. And that's what they wanted. And then 60 students signed up for the class, and then every semester, no matter how many times, no matter how many sections of the course that we offered -- because we always want to keep it small, like 14 to 17 students, because it's a conversation, it's a dialogue; it's about helping young people to grow inarticulacy about the good life, the flourishing life. So we can't help them develop articulacy if they're not actually talking. So we want it to keep it small, but no matter how many sections we offer at Yale, every spring, we have way more students than we can accept. So the last time I taught it was spring of 2019, and I think we had 75 spots and about 235 students apply and they all wrote essays to get into the class. Sushama (11:08): Incredible. Angela (11:08): Pretty extraordinary. Yeah. And so what, we've -- what we're finding... And then the more that we tell people about this program... I've taught it in a prison with my colleague, Matt Crossman, who's the Director of Life Worth Living at the Yale Center for Faith and Culture. We have taught, done weekend retreats with people who are on the brink of retirement, weekend retreats with people who are in business and, you know, corporate leaders who just want to have this conversation. There are people who are doing this in all different types of settings, in high school settings, you know, those sorts of things. And so we're actually trying to figure out more how we can spread, like, basically our methodology to more and more people. And right now I've actually been training chaplains in the US army at multiple bases, all over the country in how to help soldiers articulate meaning and purpose. And so it's been really exciting. And then at Baylor, I teach a class on Mondays at Baylor called Jesus and the Meaning of Life. And in this class we are -- so whereas Life Worth Living in... Like when I'm training chaplains or when we're doing it in a prison or at Yale, we do it in a pluralistic way. You know, it's very, we look at how different people... So Life Worth Living has these key questions. Sushama (12:20): Mm hmm. Angela (12:22): What does it mean for life to go well? What should we hope for? What does it mean for life to feel well or to feel right? What does it mean for life to be led well? How should we live? What is the role of suffering in a good life and how should we respond to suffering? And what happens when we fail to live the life that we have that we hope for? And so those are the key questions. And when we ask them in a pluralistic setting, we look at how different people have answered these questions from religious and philosophical traditions throughout history. When I do it at Baylor on Monday afternoons, right now, we are thinking about these key questions in light of the life and teachings of Jesus specifically, and really at Baylor, in this class, we are looking at contested Christian visions of flourishing life, which I feel like has been, I mean, I think if you look over the last few years in the United States, we have contending visions of what it means to follow Jesus. And so on Monday afternoons at Baylor University, we are debating those visions. Sushama (13:35): Yeah. I feel like it's just an amazing career when you can study joy. That even the ability to study joy feels like it would be inherently a part of a good life for a scholar. Like, how do you study joy? What, what is the process for studying joy? Why joy? Angela (13:54): Joy is actually one of the most under- -- or before the joy project -- it was one of the most under-explored, positive emotions across multiple disciplines, actually. And many people conflate joy and happiness. And we wanted to try to understand the difference between the two as well. From a theological perspective, people like, for example, Thomas Aquinas say that joy is the culmination of all positive emotions, like, that sort of every positive emotion culminates in joy, it's the ultimate positive feeling. And so we wanted to explore what is joy from a theological perspective? What does it take to cultivate joy? What is the difference between joy and happiness? Why is joy important in our lives? If so, why, what does it do for human beings? And so we actually brought together 239 scholars from over 140 institutions on, I think, four continents and multiple countries from all different kinds of disciplines. Angela (15:02): We had psychologists, philosophers, literature professors, historians, all different kinds of professors come together and researchers and... Every consultation had a theme related to, so, you know, maybe the theme was, like, joy versus fear. And then people would submit papers from their academic discipline, like their perspective. And we had emerging scholars and senior scholars and we would read papers and we would debate. And then we would distill big ideas into bite-size pieces. And a lot of things were written over the last few years about joy. Many books were written, a lot of articles were submitted to journals. A lot of popular articles were submitted by scholars. And so we're really grateful and excited that over the last few years, there's been a lot more written and thought about in relation to joy that I think is going to be really helpful to people. Sushama (16:03): Why is it understudied? Why do you think that was? Angela (16:08): I don't know. It's a great question. I... my hunch is that it was so associated with happiness because happiness is not an underexplored phenomenon. Sushama (16:19): No, it's not. Yeah. Angela (16:20): Positive psychologists have contributed, have dedicated a lot of time to happiness over the last probably 20 years or so. And so positive psychology is such an interesting movement because for many years, psychologists studied and focused on pathology and how do we, you know, reduce depression? How do we reduce mental distress of all sorts? Um, how do we treat mental illness? Whereas positive psychology came along and they said, instead of focusing on pathology, like what if we focused on how do we nurture positive emotions and virtues in people's lives? So what if we focused on how do we cultivate happiness, for example? And so I just wonder if maybe the study of happiness... Sort of, like, people just assumed when they were studying happiness, that they were studying joy. Sushama (17:11): I mean, this seems like a good place to maybe give your definitions and ideas about the difference. So like what, what is joy versus happiness and how do they relate? Angela (17:23): Yeah, I think for me personally, like from a theological perspective, when you look at happiness and I think that Adam Potkay's book, *The Story of Joy* is very helpful for understanding the etymology of joy. So how did it come to be -- and happiness -- and like, what did they mean when people began to use these words? Joy is actually a much older word than happiness... In like, so it was used much more. But it really, and it really is a biblical word. It's actually, like, throughout the Hebrew scriptures and in the New Testament, joy is used quite frequently. And so Potkay talks a lot about that, but basically happiness became very popular in the 1800s, I believe, is when he was talking about it, as a way, a calculus of material conditions. So, generally happiness from my perspective is associated with people's sense that their lives are going well. Angela (18:23): People assess the circumstances or the conditions of their lives and they sit back and they think, yeah, my life is going well, I'm happy. I'm happy in this moment with the circumstances that I'm in, and I'm content with how my life is going. Whereas joy is a much more profound emotion and it is... and it, and it actually occurs less frequently,I think. I think happiness is easier to access for people than joy. But joy is -- so one thing about joy is that it's very modifiable in a way that few positive emotions are, I think, which makes it a strange emotion in the sense that joy... There is, there can be exuberant joy. And I think when we think about joy, most people associate it with like exuberant joy, like, oh my goodness. Sushama (19:12): Sure, yeah. Angela (19:12): So like, this is amazing. This is so great. Right. But joy, there's also quiet joy, sobering joy, healing joy, restorative, redemptive, joy. And actually from a theological perspective, I think that theologians and also in the, in the scriptures, what we see is that joy tends to be more like... For me, Luke 15 is the biblical ode to joy where... In Luke 15, what we see is the parable of the lost sheep, the lost coin and the prodigal son. And so what's lost is found. And so there's the sense that joy is often the result, the feeling of, like, reunion, of restoration, of redemption, of what is lost being found. And so in order to feel joy sometimes, I mean that kind of joy, I mean, you have to have lost something. So there seems to be for me... And what I explore a lot in *The Gravity of Joy* is that joy has this mysterious capacity to be held alongside of sorrow. Joy can sustain us and can be sustained even in suffering... Which I think is very helpful to all of us. And like, sort of in the moment that we're finding ourselves in. Sushama (20:34): [inaudible]. Yeah, yeah. This moment. And then just, the moments that you described in your book, too. Reading, especially the depth of the chapter about your father's dying. I was... I have to say I was really affected. I actually re-read a little last night of that particular part. Because it's, it's so clear. You almost feel as a reader that you're there, too. I have to admit I was teary. And it occurred to me, I remembered about, maybe longer than a decade ago, a student at Harvard Divinity School telling me that she had just gone through, like, a season of death and grief. She called it a season of death and grief. And she did like a, almost like a mini sermon about it for an introduction to a forum we were doing. And I'll never forget how she described that. But when I read yours, I thought this is a season of death and grief. And the implications of that, that you found in your work in joy and how much it mattered in your work in joy. So I wonder if you would give us some sense of what was happening for you in holding all of these things and holding all of these moments in this season of death and in grief for you. Angela (21:49): Yeah. Thank you so much for what you said about the chapter, about my dad's death. Sushama (21:53): Yeah. Angela (21:53): I think for me, it was very important in this book to honor the journey of grief, and to speak about it, to write about it very honestly and openly. I... And because I think I wanted to really -- and I do spend a good deal of time in chapter four, talking about how grief not only produces tears, but anger and fear, and that those are stages of grief that are really important, I think, for people to talk about. I think a lot of times people experience profound grief and then find themselves really angry like I was. And they don't, they haven't been told that the two are associated. And so then they feel a little bit like, "What's happening to me?" Like, "Why am I so like... Why am I waking up so mad every day?" But when you've experienced significant loss, especially sudden loss, or, for me in the case of my dad, you know, losing him after nearly 12 years of opioid use, there was so much anger about not just his death, obviously, but all of the years that were lost before that, like the death of the guy that I knew long before he actually died. And so for me, I wanted to describe in this book, I mean, it's called "The Gravity of Joy" for a reason. Sushama (23:22): Yeah. Angela (23:22): Because it is about the weightiness of joy. It is about the kind of joy that I found in the midst of suffering was more of what Alexander Schmemann, the priest, calls 'a bright sorrow' in one of his journals. He describes joy as 'a bright sorrow' in the sense that to give ourselves over to joy is to always, in any moment that we do that to allow for just a few minutes, the brokenness, the loss, the sadness, the sin of the world, to hang in the background and instead to focus on what is good, what the relationship we have with other people, what is meaningful, you know, and to give ourselves over to just that goodness for a moment, and to allow that -- the darkness to hang in the background, the loss, you know? And so, yeah, that's what I'm doing in this book, as I think I'm trying to describe what it was to hold both sorrow and joy together in my own soul. Sushama (24:24): Yeah. And in doing that, the fact that these deaths came pretty much one after another, did you try to pivot to joy? Or do you feel like joy is inherent in the grieving -- so you like have ebbs and flows of joy -- or are you thinking to yourself, you know what, this person had a wonderful life. I remember these memories with them. That makes me joyful. Like, I'm going to concentrate on the joy in this moment of this person's life. Angela (24:51): Not during those four weeks, not a year and a half after. No. Joy did not -- no. I think that it was not for about a year and a half that I really could allow joy in. I think that joy is a gift. I don't think we can manufacture the feeling of joy. I think that it finds us and then we open ourselves up to it. Or, you know, I think we can be postured for joy. We can get ready for joy. And then when it makes its way to us, we can give ourselves over to it. But yeah, even for that year and a half, I wasn't, I wouldn't say that I was someone who was postured for joy. I wasn't looking for joy. I was able, after I got into writing the book, to look at the weeks that -- those four weeks when I lost three people back to back in very sudden and very tragic ways each in their own, you know, suicide, senseless death of a young person, and then opioid use, like I was able to look back and to see a moment in each, after each person's death, when I experienced a kind of sobering, quiet joy or a healing joy. You know, I experienced some joy in thinking about them and what they meant to me. Sushama (25:56): Sure. Angela (25:57): And like, in moments that, like, God met me and my family in the midst of what was happening, which is what brought joy. Because I say in the book too, that joy is the very being and presence of God, ministering to you. And so I was able in, very much in hindsight to see where God was and that brought me joy, but like, I would not describe those four weeks as joyful whatsoever. And I also would say that it took me a good year and a half to actually start to write about joy. Again, like I had written, I was writing about it a lot, reading everything I could get my hands on in the first eight months, even outside of the consultations we were doing. And then it was just hard to go to work. And I lived in the fog of grief and then I became this chaplain at a maximum-security prison for women on suicide watch. Angela (26:47): And that's when -- and then, so I become this chaplain. I decided to volunteer, which was such a strange thing to surrender to because I was at the end of myself, I did not think that I had anything to offer anyone. And yet I felt the tug of the Spirit in church one night when they were asking for more volunteers and I just decided to do it. And then a few weeks into it, I realized I'd been assigned the building, like, with women on suicide watch. I realized that the overwhelming majority of women in my Bible study were in prison for heroin or crack. And then I realized that... So basically my, like my study of joy, my family suffering, and the suffering of these incarcerated women collided in that prison. And I began to wonder, like, what could our research on joy and visions of the good life and contemporary culture, like what might it say to my family suffering, to these women's suffering, to America's crises of despair, both suicide and death by opioids have been called deaths of despair. So I began to wonder like, what's going on in the larger picture of what's happening in America today? You know what I mean? And then finally I'll say that my friend, Willie James Jennings, who was a colleague of mine at Yale Divinity School, he gave this lecture about a month and a half after I started being a chaplain at the prison on joy. And he said two things that absolutely changed my life in this lecture. One was that he said, we can make our pain productive without glorifying or justifying suffering. And that, because that was the last thing I wanted to do. I did not want to write about my family suffering as some sort of like way of saying that like, God had this happened, that I could write a book about joy amid suffering. Angela (28:38): You know, I don't, I don't claim that to this day. I don't think that God does stuff like that in our lives. I don't make sense of my family suffering in that way. And so this book is not an attempt to justify or to glorify what happened to my family or to the women that I met in prison. It is an attempt simply to make pain productive, to say that, you know, I can take what I went through, what these women have gone through are still going through. And I can try to be a part of the groundswell of people who are addressing America's crisis of despair. Like, you know, and then the second thing he said was joy is a work of resistance against despair. Like, he channeled Habakkuk 3 and he was just like, you know, this is, this joy is a work of resistance against despair. And so as I, you know, it like all came together in this moment, in this lecture where I was like, oh wow, we have a crisis of despair in American culture. My family has experienced it. I'm meeting with women every Wednesday who experienced this. And then joy is a work of resistance against despair. I'm writing about that. And that is what *The Gravity of Joy* is, that is the thesis of this book. That joy is a counter agent to despair. Interlude (29:56): [sound of water droplet] Sushama (29:58): You talk about this counter agency of despair. Give more illustrations of how that joy, like if it's from the women's prison or in your own life, but how is it that joy might serve as this great counter agent to despair? Angela (30:12): Well, if despair is the feeling that many people I think have... When I think about despair, I describe it as a theologian. So that's important. I'm not a psychologist. You know, I keep saying that throughout the thing, but I just want to [laughter] -- like, I'm thinking about despair and joy and suicide and the opioid crisis from a theological perspective. And when I think about despair from a theological perspective, what I see is that people begin to feel that even though they can see others, that people cannot reach them. People cannot connect with them. People don't see them, understand them, truly hear them. Also despair tends to give us the feeling that... Nothing will heal or bring us relief from our pain. And so we've become hopeless about the idea that, like, healing is possible for us. Despair also tends to come from the sense that our life has become ineffective, that we've failed massively, and we can't recover from it. That we've lost our sense of self, that we don't know who we are or where we're going or where we've been. That we're not a part of some sort of larger story that's being told, you know? And so joy is the opposite of all of that. Joy is the feeling that we get when we recognize and feel connected to meaning, to truth, to beauty, to goodness, and to other people. Joy is a realization of relatedness, to these sorts of things, right? And so the more that we can help people to have realizations of connection, to meaning truth, beauty, goodness, to one another, the more we help people to resist despair in their lives. Sushama (32:01): Yeah. You're making me think about kind of the moment that we're in also as a country, I feel in some way, we're in a -- it feels like collective grief, collective despair on all fronts, in every way that you can think about it. And it could be anything from racial injustice to, you know, like the reshaping and kind of like, degradation of like our democratic ideals, like, and anywhere in between all, all these ideas in between. But there's kind of a collective grief happening, a collective despair. But I don't, I'm not finding there's room for much collective joy right now and how we, we get people to some joy or to some joyfulness or to looking at some of our, of these issues in a more hopeful way. What are you, what are you thinking about like collective joy? Angela (33:03): No, it is a thing. I think the best example, and Brene Brown has pointed this out in her work, is in sports. Sports really demonstrate collective sorrow and collective joy in a very powerful way. I mean, we saw it at the national championship game two Monday nights ago. And you know, I gotta give a shout out to the Baylor men's basketball team. You know, but it's so interesting. I actually preached about this last Sunday that, you know, at the national championship game, it's just, you see right at the end of that game, this collective sorrow and collective joy just collide. And it's, you know, because Jalen Suggs is crying and Mark Vital is crying. They're both crying for very different reasons. One is weeping. One is rejoicing. You know, and so we see collective joy and sorrow in sports. And I think that's why sports are so powerful in people's lives, because it's this space that we have to feel like I'm with these other people in what I'm feeling. Angela (34:04): So we feel very, very connected to other people, and we feel permission to feel deeply in sports. I don't know that there's any place that people feel such exuberant joy or such profound sadness, so publicly, right? Sushama (34:20): Yes! Angela (34:20): And so sports are interesting. And the Sports Institute at Baylor, they're doing some really interesting work in thinking theologically about sports, so I just want to give a shout out to them as well. But basically what you're saying about collective despair, collective sorrow. I absolutely feel it too. I literally, I woke up to the news headlines this morning of this young, 13-year-old boy being shot in Chicago by police. And I literally, I just, and I'm looking -- I follow black liturgies on Instagram. I commend them to everyone. And it's just literally all they can like post this morning is like -- inhale. Like, we are sad, you know, something to the effect of like, we're sad -- exhale, please, like, help us not to give over to despair. Angela (35:05): I, you know, it's like when George Floyd's trial is going on, and then we hear about Dante Wright. And now we hear about this young 13 year old. It's like, I don't -- it's so hard for me to have any hope going forward for policing in the United States. It is. It's like, and I want to believe that there's hope, but I can understand why so many people would say like, there is no hope for redeeming this, you know? There is no hope for, like... All we can imagine is that we have to rethink the whole thing because like, how can this be redeemed? You know? And so, yeah, it's very -- there are certain aspects of American life right now that it's very hard to not just say like, this is irredeemable. Like this is lost, and nothing can be found. Right. You know what I mean? Sushama (35:57): Nothing. And when you think about, you know, a 13-year-old boy, and I have a 13-year-old and an 11-year-old, and it's like, now I won't go, I won't be too dramatic. It's not all joy, but most of it, of their childhood is joy. It is pure joy. That's what we're aiming for. That's what they're aiming for. That mostly, it's a lot of joy. So for a 13-year-old to be gone out of our lives, because of a collective crisis is really, really painful. And I appreciate you naming that. It's really painful. Angela (36:32): Yeah. Well, and what I was going to say about it too, is like, when it comes to joy, it's like, we can't rush joy. And I do, I do think that in the case of the kind of week that we're having with [inaudible], you know, with this trial going on, and I mean, I think for me, George Floyd's trial is just so representative of the fact that, like the fact that we have to have this, like, very long trial, about a murder that everyone saw is so, so painful and disorienting. Sushama (37:06): I'm with you. Yes. Angela (37:06): It's like, we all watched it. Everyone watched it. Sushama (37:12): We saw it! [crosstalk] Angela (37:12): Everyone saw it! Like, everyone saw it. And so I think it's very important for me to say today that there are obstacles to joy, but not that -- in that they're bad, but like one is anger, especially righteous anger, and fear. Where fear resides, it's difficult for joy to make its way to us. When anger resides, like where anger resides, it's difficult for joy to make its way to us. And that's not a bad thing. Anger and fear are emotions that teach us. That -- if there's anything I've learned over the last four and a half years, it's that emotions are not -- I don't really like using the words 'negative emotions and positive emotions' actually. I mean, I have been saying positive, like, about joy, but I don't really think that there are bad emotions. I think every emotion is a teacher, if we let it, right? That there's wisdom there. Anger, especially righteous anger says there's something wrong. There's something broken that needs to be fixed. And so there, like, we have to work through anger and fear in constructive ways and saying, what are you teaching me? What do I need to do in response to this emotion? You know, we have to listen to them, you know? And so I don't, and I think that's for us to get to collective joy. We have to first, like, constructively work through our anger, our lament, our fear. Sushama (38:35): Yeah, yeah, yes. To all of that. I want to talk about the women's prison for a little bit too, because I wanted to hear some of your stories. That feels like that was a place of some healing, working with these women, that it was a place of some healing for you. And I want to know who (again without naming names, but just illustrations), who were some of the women? What did they offer you during that time that felt therapeutic or felt like it helps you along in your own healing coming off of this season? Angela (39:07): Yes, absolutely. These women got me on the road to healing. No doubt about it. There is... the second part of the title of the book, the subtitle is 'a story of being lost and found,' I'm the person who was lost, who was found. And I was found in this, strangely enough... I found myself and my sense of faith. And I found that I could hold my faith and doubt together with these women in this Bible study. I came alive for the first time after -- I felt, I think I felt numb. And I felt like I was dead for like a year and a half. And then they like, awoke -- and they awakened something in me. And I say very clearly in both the dedication of the book, and then in the last chapter, that I don't claim that the joy that they brought me was also present in them. But it's important for me, like, to say, you know, I hope that the joy that they brought me at some point is theirs, too. But these women were so critical in my own healing journey. One, because they had been through so much. These women had been, almost all of them, sexually abused. Almost all of them had grown up in foster care at some point in their life. They had spent time in foster care in a group home. Almost all of them were caught up in cycles of poverty. Almost all of them had parents who were caught up in cycles of substance use. And yet these women would cling to God. They prayed the most honest prayers that I've ever heard. And in that room, there was, like, such respect for one another. If you were over 45 or 50, they called you Miss, like Miss Aliyah, for example, as a sign of respect among each other. Angela (41:12): And so all of us, the Bible study co-leaders, we followed them. We called particular women Miss, like Miss Aliyah, just following their lead, but this was not something we did. It was something that they did. Their ability to humanize one another in such a dehumanizing situation, after all that they had been through, was remarkable to me. And specifically like, when I think about Miss Aliyah and one of those, like, you know, on the last day that I was in the prison, I said that she was like, "Angela, I want to sing a song for you." And, you know, and so then she just like stands up in the room, and she starts singing Amazing Grace, off-pitch, and then a few sentences in, she forgets what she's saying, and she sits down and it's like, "I'm so sorry. I forgot the words." And yet, after spending a year in that prison, it was so perfect because I had realized that to live... To live exposed, vulnerable, honest, without shame, is to be truly human. And that's the only way to actually live well. In this room, there was no shame, which is why we sang so loudly and we danced and we told bold stories. Angela (42:39): You know, I tell another story in the book. I mean, there was a moment when Vanessa was trying to help a young woman who was being bullied on her tier, get off a different, her tier and get into another part of the prison. And so Vanessa like, "Hey, grab -- like, we need a piece of paper. And so she rips out a piece of paper of her notebook, and she gives it to her and she's like, "Millie, like here, just start writing a letter to this person." Because Vanessa had been in prison for about nine years. And so she knew what was going on and she knew the places of power in the prison. Angela (43:10): And so she's like "Here, like, write down, you're going to write to this person." And Millie's like, "I can't write." You know, and she's like 22 years old, but the education system has failed her. Right. And so she cannot write, and Vanessa then says, "Oh, it's okay, I'll write it. And then you just sign it, and give it to this person." And it was like, you know, there's so many moments, I feel like, outside of that room where somebody realizes somebody else can't write, or they sing off-pitch, or they forget something. And there's like this moment of like, ugh -- like, where you kind of look at someone, and you're like, what? Like you can't -- what? You know, and you have this reaction to each other that then induces immediately, like, shame and a sense of like, "Oh, wow. I just told you something. I shared something. I made a mistake in front of you. Like, and now I feel vulnerable and exposed and it's not good." No, in this room when you were vulnerable and exposed and real, it was welcomed and accepted. And it was like, you're deeply human. Welcome. [laughs] Oh my God, it's the most refreshing thing in the world. Sushama (44:17): I was just thinking, where does that happen? That's so refreshing! Angela (44:21): I mean, I say in *The Gravity of Joy* in chapter five, that nothing is half-baked in prison. That's why I felt so alive there. And that's my great hope and prayer that these women leave prison and then are able to cultivate these kinds of spaces in their own lives. You know, because I just, I don't, like, I don't want it to have to be prison that gets people, people to that place. You know? Interlude (44:45): [sound of water droplet] Sushama (44:45): That's beautiful. I mean, so authentic and I don't know -- you're right, where... What other spaces that that would happen. There's so much, and I'm looking at our time. I want to get maybe two quick, two last quick questions. And if you're willing, one is to ask you about, as people read this, as they look at your interviews, as they're kind of Googling around who you are and what your work is. What do you want people to get from this book, of course, but also from your research and your life's journey of talking and thinking about joy? Angela (45:21): So there are several things that I want people to get. And one thing I want to mention is that my website www.angelagorrell.com (and Gorell is G-O-R-R-E-L-L) -- so angelagorrell.com -- you can have, there's a free discussion, story prompt, and activity guide that goes with *The Gravity of Joy*. And the whole point of creating that guide is that I want this, this book to cultivate conversation about every emotion that people experience in their lives. So, this guide is a guide to talking about the grief of your own life, the losses you've experienced, it's a guide to sharing stories about your own righteous anger and fear, but also of course, your own experiences of joy. It's a guide that all the activities are what I call 'gateways to joy.' And so we can't make it, but we can posture ourselves for it, and we can be open to it. And so, these are all ways to become more open to joy in your life. And so the whole idea of my book is, number one -- I want people to understand joy more and to become more open to it in their lives. And two -- I would love for people to feel like that in telling my story that they have permission to tell theirs. And third, I would love for more people to become part of the groundswell of people who are working to address suicide rates, the opioid crisis, or mass incarceration in the United States, and the epilogue describes each of these three things that are going on and resources for learning more about how to join the groundswell of people working so hard to address these very critical issues. Sushama (47:05): I downloaded the discussion guide. So, it's really great. So thanks for that. Last question for you. And it's... I think it's personal, but it doesn't have to be, I want to know how you're doing, how your life is, how you have grieved and come to some redemptive joy. How's your sister and your family, and where are people in their lives? They really live as characters and real people for me. And I'm sure for many, many, many people who have read the powerful book. So how's everybody doing? How are you doing? Angela (47:38): You know, what's so fascinating about this question is that I think I've done upwards of 25-plus interviews in the last month about this book. I mean, maybe, maybe more. You're the first person to ask that question. So thank you for asking it. Wow. I, you know, I definitely am someone who continues to hold together joy and sorrow. I described in chapter 8 Ezra being at the temple. And like, there are all these people watching the temple be rebuilt, and there's a lot of people weeping because they remember the old house and the way that things used to be. And then there's a lot of people rejoicing because they're seeing the temple be rebuilt and they're excited about it. And I feel so, like the -- I feel like both people that are watching the temple. I am incredibly grateful; this book is being received in the way that it is. The emails, the DMs that I'm getting on Instagram, on Facebook, the texts, it has been so beautiful to see people receive this book. And many people just say to me, you know, Angela, I feel so resonated with like, "I lost a parent a few years ago and I just feel like, wow, you described it in a way that was so, like, 'Yes, you get it.'" You know what I mean? Or "I have felt powerless to help someone that I love, and that I really get it. I have lost someone I love to suicide, and I feel like you honored the experience," you know? And so, that's been so beautiful, but then, you know, it's sobering that, you know, my book was, for example, like in, for the first week, it was the number one new release in Christian death and grief. Angela (49:14): And it was like, wow. I'm so grateful that, wow... This book cost my family so much to write. This book, you know, and then I'm thinking constantly about these women in prison. I prayed for them every Monday through Friday morning. And I'm constantly thinking, I wish I could tell you because now I'm in Texas, so I don't get to see them anymore. I'm going to be, I'm going to actually be a volunteer at a new prison. I'm so looking forward to it, and be investing in, investing in the lives of women who are going to be eight months out from reintegration in the next couple of years, I'm so excited about this work. But I... Even as someone who really is about prison abolition, but so I'll -- I just want to say that. I'm really not, I'm not really about prison reform. I'm more about prison abolition. And yet it's very important to me that as we're on the way to that, that I am with women who are in prison and continue to do this work anyways, I wish that I could tell these women what was happening, that their stories are being told, and that they were not for nothing. [emotional] You know, and that their pain is being made productive. And that, I'm just so grateful to them. You know, it's so funny though, because I say in the book and it's true to this day, to this day, they don't know who I am. They don't know that I have a Ph.D. or that I'm a professor or that I'm an author or anything like that. And it was important because it helped, like, I think our relationship would have been so different if they knew those things. But, so we were just human beings in a room together. Angela (50:54): But my family, you know, my sister Steph, who lost her son, to this day is having a very hard time. She misses him every single day. She doesn't wake up one day without having it, like, at the forefront of her mind. And it's hard. It's hard for her. She's like, you know, I don't know, like, like she -- she knows she'll never entirely like heal from it. And she's like, so she just tries to do her life realizing that, you know, that she just, she has this backpack. That's what she describes it as. Like, every day I put on my backpack of, like, grief and I just carry it with me everywhere I go. And she's like, you know, that's just her reality now. My little sister and my older sister, Alison, I mean, all of us, you know, we just... [sigh] we have ups. It's just like, there are days when we really think, you know, we're going to be okay and everything, you know, and we're making the best of this. And, you know, we're -- I don't know, we lean on each other. And then days when we just all kind of, like, text about it or call each other, we like Zoom or FaceTime about it. And we're just like, damn, like, it's still so hard. You know? So that's the honest, raw answer, is like, on many days, especially particular holidays and birthdays. And, you know, it's very hard for us still. Sushama (52:19): Yeah. Angela (52:19): And obviously like my book brought all of that back for everybody, right? And so I have to also, I guess, close this by just saying I am indebted to the women who I met in prison. I am indebted to all of my sisters, to my family, my extended family, for their willingness to allow their stories, to be implicated in the telling of mine. I'm grateful to them for giving me the consent to use their names, to tell their story as well. Interlude (52:54): [background percussion music] Angela (52:54): And just, yeah, it's -- so, and they're all -- a lot of them, they're leading their own groups about this book. They're doing a book club on the book, [crosstalk] and I think that's really good for them. Sushama (53:07): That's wonderful. Well, we're grateful for your story and for your work, your gift to the church, your gifts. This book is a gift. I really appreciate your honesty and just all that you have offered today and all that you offered in the book. So thank you so, so very much, Angela. Dayle (53:26): [background percussion music] You've been listening to The Distillery. Interviews are conducted by me, Dayle Rounds, and me, Sushama Austin-Connor, and I'm Shari Oosting. I'm Amar Peterman and I am in charge of production. Like what you're hearing? Subscribe at Apple Podcasts, Stitcher, or your preferred podcast app. The Distillery is a production of PrincetonTheological Seminary's Office of Continuing Education. You can find out more at thedistillery.ptsem.edu. Thanks for listening. [sound of water droplet]  

Joni Sancken is an assistant professor of homiletics at United Theological Seminary, and author of Words That Heal: Preaching Hope to Wounded Souls. In this episode, Sushama Austin-Connor talks with Joni about her expertise in preaching and her personal experience of trauma, sharing ways for the Church to become a place that welcomes expressions of trauma and offers love, care, and healing to survivors. Joni Sancken is an ordained pastor with Mennonite Church USA and has served as a pastor in Mennonite congregations in Indiana and Pennsylvania. Her credentials are currently held by Virginia Conference. She received her PhD from Toronto School of Theology (2009), MDiv from Princeton Theological Seminary (2004), and BA from Goshen College (1998). Prior to joining the faculty at United, she served as Assistant Professor of Preaching and Practical Theology at Eastern Mennonite Seminary in Harrisonburg, VA, where she also served as the director of their Preaching Institute. Joni also served as a sessional faculty member at Anabaptist Mennonite Biblical Seminary and Candler School of Theology as a postdoctoral fellow at Emory University.                                                                         Dayle Rounds (00:00):What does it look like to preach in a way that is mindful of those who have experienced trauma? In this episode, you will hear from Joni Sancken an assistant professor of homiletics at United Theological Seminary. She talks with Sushama Austin-Connor about how the church can become a place that welcomes the expression of trauma and where people can experience love, care, and healing. (Waterdrop sound)You're listening to The Distillery at Princeton Theological Seminary.Sushama Austin-Connor (00:30): All right, so I wanted to start first of all, with what seems like a very interesting series itself, the artistry of preaching series. Can you just give us some context for the series and what it's about? Joni Sancken:It is extremely eclectic. I mean, I think my sense of understanding. So when I proposed the book, I had no idea it was going to be part of this series. They came back to me and said, Oh, we would like it to be part of this series. And I've heard other authors had a similar experience where they had just sort of proposed it as a book. And then they're like, Oh, we can put it in this series. So I think essentially what it is is it's elements kind of around the sermon that may be operating in the preaching, but it's not like kind of the nuts and bolts when you think about sermon design.So it's a, it's the other things that help to really, make sermons live and breathe and grow. So there've been, there've been ones on having to do with, poetry. There've been ones that have to do with images. There've been ones that have to do with the sermon. It's kind of an educational function. Mine definitely tips over more toward kind of that pastoral care zone a bit, how you use your language, how you shape your language. Like some of those are some of the topics in the series. One of the things that was kind of a gift with the series is that my, my doctoral supervisor, Paul Scott Wilson, was the editor of the series. And so it was kind of an amazing experience. It had been just a little over 10 years since I had finished my Ph.D. and to have him editing my work again, like it was just, it was a gift, like to be able to work with him in a different space in my life and kind of like a more, I don't know, mature scholar space and to have him as a, such a trusted conversation partner as part of that, was just a super gift.And I know not everybody is going to have that experience. So I, I loved that. It really, it made it special to be a part of the series. Sushama Austin-Connor: That's really nice. So in saying that, what were some things that you in 10 years' time span have learned about yourself as a preacher? Joni Sancken :I mean, I think just as a teacher and a preacher, you move from space to space. I think, the students that I work with, the pastors that I work with have changed me. Life changes. You, you mellow out some, like you just kind of get more confident in your own skin as a scholar. I think for me, my early work was on the cross and resurrection, like that's what my dissertation on that was my first book was on. And you can see it still is really an important part of this book.Joni Sancken (03:05):Like those same theological impulses are there. Like I have continuity in who I am, but I think engaging with, survivors of trauma and trauma itself, that has it's changed me in a profound way. And I, I wouldn't, I would love for the traumatic events that happened to our family to not have happened. I mean that I would never want that, but I also welcome the strange gift of perspective that it has given me. I feel like I am much more comfortable with human experience and with human responses to life experience. I don't feel like I have to be, the Orthodoxy police. I don't feel like I have to defend God in quite some of the same ways that I think I felt like I had to do as a younger scholar. And I think I feel much more free in terms of what, what can be done in the sermon. I don't feel like I have to like argue for saving the sermon or argue for like carving out what my particular angle is on it. And that I can sort of just be in that space a bit more, if that makes sense.Sushama Austin-Connor (04:14):It makes total sense. And you mentioned family trauma and you start the book off talking about, family trauma and your sister-in-law, would you share some more about the specific story and what led you to even involve your family and the story in the book? Joni Sancken (04:32):Yes, Absolutely. I had, I had already been thinking about preaching and trauma before our family had a traumatic event happen. My students, I, we have a lot of these intensive preaching classes at United where I teach. And for a while it felt like something horrible happened like days before the students would show up. So there was the Orlando nightclub shooting and that happened. And then the next day the students showed up and they were just reeling from this experience or the Mother Bethel, AME shooting like that happened. And then like the next, just days later, they were in Ohio, like at the seminary and the sermons that they'd been working on these weeks before coming no longer felt like they were the sermons that they wanted to preach. So they were having to search for words at the last minute, they were struggling with how to speak into traumatic experience and with processing their own trauma.Joni Sancken (05:26):So I had already had that as something that I was working on, I was shopping around a book proposal, and then my own sister-in-law died suddenly of a brain aneurysm. She didn't have any other health issues. She was a young mom in her thirties, very, very young children. And, I felt our family experienced some of the things that I had been reading about with trauma. Just the sense of disconnection sense of isolation, that a sense of some people pulling away from you almost if whatever terrible thing happened to you, that it might be catching somehow, which was a really painful experience. And so we got to see what it was like firsthand. How does the church relate to someone when something unspeakable has happened in your life? And I think for me, I felt very strongly that the spirit, like I didn't, when something traumatic happens to you, like you want to be able to do something like you, you feel so powerless and regaining agency is such a part of that.Joni Sancken (06:27):And I just remember such a profound sense of the Spirit saying well, this is something you can do. And immediately after that, I got a book contract and they were really generous with how they, gave me space and time to work on it. I got a sabbatical from my school to work on it and just a lot of support to pursue the process. And so for me, working on the book was, has definitely been part of my processing of the experience. I don't see it as much in the pages, but I remember there were times when I would be writing and I would just be like crying as I was writing, but it doesn't, it doesn't really come through in the book. Like when I read it now, I'm not like, Oh yeah, like, it's not like tears are dripping out of this page.Joni Sancken (07:07):But it was definitely part of my own experience with it and getting my family's permission to, to say, can I share our story here? And I feel like it really connects with, especially my mother and father-in-law with how they have, journeyed toward healing. I feel like they had, especially my father-in-law had a very difficult time in terms of squaring his faith and his relationship with God with what happened, because it just felt so cruel, for Twila to just be ripped away from our lives and from her family. And that was, there was such a need for her to still be alive, but she wasn't. And so I think for his own journey, too have moved to a place where I felt like they now are able to kind of give back, they reach out to other families that experienced trauma. Like they're part of broader networks that, that work on that.Joni Sancken (07:57):And I feel like their faith is strong in a way that, allows them to, has allowed them to move forward into other things that are very difficult. I mean, a couple of years ago, my father-in-law was diagnosed with cancer. It's like a slow-growing cancer. And I was so concerned. I thought, Oh, is this going to completely unmoor their faith? When I feel like they've just kind of gotten re-rooted, but it's not like God has seen them through everything as what their posture is now. If God saw us through this, like God can see us through this. And they have such a wonderful faith community. My in-laws are Mennonite and they were Amish like one generation back. Like my father-in-law grew up Amish and that community is so thick. I don't feel like there's like a good, a good corollary for it. And the outside world, like it's such a thick community. And so we're so grateful that they have had that community around them, both my brother-in-law and, and my, all my in-laws really have had that community. Sushama Austin-Connor (08:59):Yeah, and you are a Mennonite-Joni Sancken (09:01):I am an ordained Mennonite pastor in Mennonite, church USA. I'm kind of a, a Mennonite a little bit in exile these days. My husband is a PCUSA pastor and I'm teaching at a United Methodist seminary. And so I work with, with all the ecumenical folk but yes, I'm still proud Mennonite.(Waterdrop sound)Sushama Austin-Connor (09:20):I'm going to get a little bit into the book now, too. So I'm actually, you know, I was thinking as I was reading and thinking about some of your book, I also a couple of months ago reading, in my grandmother's hands by Resmaa Menakem, have you read it to some of the, I saw some parallels or things that made me think about your book in similar ways about kind of racial healing and racial trauma and, so, and even some of the ways in which your book is extremely practical, it's very theological, but then there's also practical ways in ways to practice this. I found it that matched some of the, the, some of his work. And so I, I was really interested in your language around soul wounds and what that, what that is.Joni Sancken (10:10):Yeah. I had not read his book when I wrote mine, but I have read it now. I've used it in my classes and I love his book actually. Sushama Austin-Connor (10:16):I do too. Yeah, I do too. Joni Sancken (10:19):And it's a bigger part of my, my next project is incorporating more of that. But yeah, when I read his book, I saw he also used some of that soul injury type language. With dovetails. I mean, for me, that language arose from conversations with editors actually early on in the process. I think there was a sense that it would be less freighted for some readers than using the word trauma. And it also might free me up a little bit, to not have that kind of technical term, even though trauma is very much a part of the, of the book. It would allow people who wouldn't identify as being traumatized, but would recognize themselves as having this kind of lingering pain that they're from experiences that have happened in their lives. So I think it, it broadens it. And I, I think I have found that it does resonate more with some pastors when I work with them, that they're able to kind of acknowledge a soul wound where they would never say I, I had a traumatic injury, like they will use that kind of technical language.Joni Sancken (11:21):One of the things that I do like about it is it gets at that kind of hidden nature of those lingering permeating wounds, that can last after, a experience of trauma in your life so that hiddenness like, people don't see it. It's not a wound that's on your arm, it's buried inside you. One of the challenges I have feel with the language, although this hasn't really been a problem with the book, but one of my colleagues had pointed out that I go to a lot of effort to show that trauma is like, it's so comprehensive, right? It's your relationships, it's your spirituality, it's physical, it's mental, it's emotional and soul - I think sometimes people hear soul and they think only spirit, or they think only like your inner self and that it's not also affecting kind of your social being. But, I think at its best, it does communicate that, that permeability.Sushama Austin-Connor (12:13):Yeah. And, and for me, it also opens up because I do think of soul is like sort of inner and spiritual but also kind of opens it up for like all of your traumas. Like all of them, all of them are involved in like that. It's kind of like soul care to all of it is involved in, in that kind of care. Have you found that pastors, you said that they, it might be easier to talk about soul wounds rather than trauma, but what, what other ways have pastors resonated with that language? I mean, and are they preaching and saying soul wounds are, are what's the language? How is the language being used?Joni Sancken (12:51):They're not, they're not saying soul wounds necessarily in their, in their sermons. I've had the, the gift. Now a couple of times of being able to work with pastors around this material and then having them generate sermons that are trauma aware and have grown out of their engagement with the material. And I don't think any of them necessarily use that term soul wound, but, they do talk about the, the pain that people experience in their lives in frank and honest ways. And I think that's a real mark of, of trauma aware preaching to be able to do that, to name the situation and also to be, to be timely when you need to be, I mean, we have come through sadly now a couple of weeks again, where we've had mass shootings. And I mean, this is a situation where often like pastors are ready to go with a sermon.Joni Sancken (13:41):And especially these days where some churches are recording their sermons days ahead, to have to decide, okay, now that that no longer fits, I need to redo what I was planning to do in light of the event that just unfolded, the, the shootings that we've had more recently have happened earlier in the week. But, I, in recent memory, I can think of some that happened not so early, in Dayton, Ohio, we had a mass shooting a couple of summers ago and that happened on a Saturday night. And I think people woke up Sunday morning and it was on their phone that this had happened in their own city. And so to try to decide, what to do in that, in that moment, I sadly have a pastor friend. I know some pastors have like a set funeral sermon that they kind of have available, that they can adapt if, a congregant passes away. He has a mass shooting sermon. This pastor does, and he just updates it. So that it's ready to go. And I'm like, that's wise, but it's so sad that you have that.Sushama Austin-Connor (14:42):It's so sad, yeah. It's so sad. I mean, and at this point we were having them, it was almost daily for about a week and a half. If they were like five to 10 or more people, but nearly daily. So there's a lot, there's a lot happeningJoni Sancken (14:55):And from working with pastors, I realized too that it's awfully freighted. How you talk about these things. We had like a continuing ed event, right after that shooting that happened in, in Dayton. And some of the pastors talked about how, like they wanted to talk about what had happened because it is scary. And it is like it happened in an area where a lot of people go. It was like a very kind of a downtown, an area that had been built up and restored, tons of restaurants, shopping area where people go that the city was kind of proud of. And that's where the shooting had happened. And, but they were afraid to talk about it or they got pushback from their congregation because the issue of gun control is also a political issue and that inflames people. So you can't talk about gun violence as a traumatic injury without also turning off some of your listeners instantly because of the politics involved. So it's really hard. I mean, preachers have to be multitasking in their mind is they think about how to address this, like how to address the wound that that's happened in such a way that people can hear and receive it as care and not like anger or inflame half of your congregation instantly. It's really, it's challenging times.Sushama Austin-Connor (16:09):It is very challenging. One word that always, kind of sticks with me both because I try to figure out what it's actually about. So trigger. So when I think of trauma and then I think of like the, the naming trigger and then I can't really like, well, how come we're not actually naming things for what they are, or if people are triggered and we're not talking about it, then we're having trauma and not naming it. So I wonder, yeah. What do you think? Joni Sancken (16:40):That's been one of the most controversial elements as I've dealt with it later, in this book, I, I'm mostly a guest preacher these days. And so for me actually using a trigger warning has been helpful, because I am somewhat trauma aware. Obviously I'm not a trauma expert. I've had a little training and done a lot of reading. For me, if there was anything in the sermon that I think could potentially harm someone. And when I use the word trigger, I'm thinking of it more in its clinical sense. That's for someone who is a survivor of trauma, that it could initiate kind of a, a physical chain reaction where they are again, experiencing physical sensations that are connected to that traumatic event. And that it may kind of set them back on their own, healing journey, inadvertently in that church safe space where they shouldn't, it's hard enough for them to be there because triggers are all around. If there's anything I can do to, to alert them and to give them agency like, then I'd say what it is like this sermon mentions racial violence or whatever the trigger is, then they can decide, do I want to stay or do I want to go?Joni Sancken (17:47):And it gives them that power. So for me, like, it's been a useful tool. Now. I have had some conversation with fellow friends in the academy of homiletics that when preaching about certain things. It should be beneficial. It, you shouldn't just use a trigger warning to give people an out if they feel uncomfortable. One of the things that Resmaa Menaem talks about is the clean pain and the dirty pain. And I think that's something that is really beneficial to think of here, but, but you still have to get people to buy in. Right. For example, I, a couple years ago, I heard a sermon where the preacher spoke extremely graphically about racialized violence. She was describing lynching in extremely visceral ways and it was physically nauseating to hear it, but I'm, I'm a white person and like she should not have to modify her pain, in order to make me feel comfortable.Joni Sancken (18:43):And, and I should feel uncomfortable, right? Like as part of that, that working through now, there may be some who would hear that sermon who had experienced some kind of physical violence where the language that was used could have triggered a traumatic response in them, but it's so hard to know kind of where all your listeners are on that journey. So the trigger warning has been, yeah, it's something that comes up almost every time. I, I talk about this, but my students have experimented with it. And for the most part, it has, has worked, has worked well for them. I mean, you never know who's going to be in your, in your church on, on a Sunday morning. And if you say what the trigger is about, it's about racialized violence, then your listener has a chance. Am I going to buy in, am I going to stick through this?Joni Sancken (19:28):Maybe I need to experience this clean pain, but if it's going to be something that really sets them back on a healing journey, then they can choose to step out. If you work ahead, you can even let people know, well, in advance, if you're going to be talking about something that might be triggering for people. So, I mean, if you know that there's something that might trigger someone who has a history of sexual assault, you can let them know ahead of time, or you can reach out to them personally, if they've shared that experience with you as their pastor, you can say, this may come up on Sunday, or this is in the text on Sunday. I just wanted to let you know, so that you can take care of yourself and make a decision around, what would be most beneficial for you? Because I don't think God doesn't want us to harm our listeners as we're seeking to proclaim the gospel.(Waterdrop sound)Sushama Austin-Connor (20:17):And I, I wanted to talk about words that heal. So some more about words that heal. How do you think pastors can do that kind of work while we're online? How can we do that? Well, like how can we have these experiences well, online?Joni Sancken (20:35):I feel like in some ways in this kind of online worship world, that the sermon has become even more important than it was before, because before we had our singing, the hymns, the congregational singing, the praise music, whatever we had in worship, we had sacraments that we were doing together in person. We had like the bodies next to us on the pews. We had like the environment that we were in that worship space. Maybe there were visuals, maybe there was other art forms that were part of that. Now what we have is this kind of two-dimensional experience. The sermon is probably the least changed element in preaching. It still is like a one-person offering a teaching on scripture, a sharing of the gospel, toward listeners, but the idea of the listener as much larger, number of pastors I've talked to are kind of, they realized that now anyone could be listening to their sermon.Joni Sancken (21:30):And so they're being a little bit more careful and intentional that they're not just preaching to this little group of folk that they would be used to seeing in front of them, that they could be preaching to anyone. Another thing that I have heard some pastors be concerned about is that people are not always staying for the whole time. Like they can track it on their, on their metrics later that people can tune out. Like if they didn't like the sermon that they were like checked out, like gave it a few minutes and then left, that's something that would be awkward to do if people were there and in the worship service. So I think that it puts a little more pressure on the preacher, but it also is a, is a greater opportunity. And I think, in terms of the, the tools that you can use, I would really encourage pastors.Joni Sancken (22:16):And I have, I did this with a group of pastors at the beginning of the pandemic to employ even more, opportunities for communication so that there are other ways besides just the sermon. So I've known some pastors have added a mid-week reflection, whether that's something that they record or whether it's something that is written that then that is, kind of additional to the sermon. And that listeners kind of collapsed the two and maybe on Sunday, you're attending to a biblical text and it's kind of more of a traditional sermon, but then your mid-week reflection may be just kind of a frank discussion of like what's happening in your community right now. Or wanting to really connect to a specific issue that you're facing. And it allows you to be a little bit more vulnerable. And for some they've made that midweek, just members of the church, like that's not something that is posted just only goes either on a private channel or it goes via email, something like that.Joni Sancken (23:12):So that's a little bit more protected and more directed because you know, what the needs are in your own community. So I think encouraging more communication rather than less, and really encouraging preachers to just to talk about what's going on in our world to take it as an opportunity, rather than, than something that is threatening or scary as an opportunity to speak God's presence into those events. I mean, the, our theology it's part of our Christian identity is all wrapped in our theological language and who Christ is and who God is for us. This is how we make sense of our world processing is so important to trauma, like trying to make sense of it. I mean, a number of, researchers put that as a step, like a necessary step that you have to like, make sense of what happened.Joni Sancken (24:05):And for Christians, we have like rich language that can help us make sense. I mean, the fact that we have we've just come through good Friday and Easter, we have a God Sushama Austin-Connor:that's right. That's right. Joni Sancken :Who has a traumatic death that, that happens in the life of God? Like Jesus dies a traumatic death. And that is part of, of who God is going forward. And we know this because the resurrected Christ still had those wounds. Like that's not the completeness of who Jesus is, but nor is it erased. Like it's still there. It's part of the life of God. And that allows us to see like ongoing experiences of suffering are, are part of, of Christ's crucifixion allows us to see that, kind of wrapped up in, in who our God is. So I think, I mean, I think it's vital that, that preachers continue, continue to use that, that kind of language. Sushama Austin-Connor (24:57):Absolutely. And I think what you were saying earlier about, how now in this space, the sermon, I mean, I know at the churches, at the church I go to and then I've been able to visit a lot of churches now that we're online. It's I feel like, at least at a couple of churches and my church, the sermon is it's always central, but it really is central. Now. It's like where there's less music. You know, when it's communion Sunday, you have the community element when you have maybe one hymn, but really it's the sermon. So we actually do a hymn, we pray then do a, hymn then you go right into the sermon. So whereas it may have been a half-hour or so before the sermon now it's like within 15 minutes, the sermon has started.Joni Sancken (25:41):Yeah. Yeah. It's the main event. I know churches have had to be creative churches that are used to having, kind of more of a dialogical experience of the sermon. Have had to be creative about that either with chat going on along the side, or with having one of my students created like a talk-back hour after worship were people could come back and they could offer their comments, their questions, their feedback, like their support, whatever they wanted to offer after the sermon was done. Sushama Austin-Connor:That's great.(Waterdrop sound)Sushama Austin-Connor (26:13):Early in the text, you, you make a distinction between healing and curing. I want to hear more about that and how you think it should influence trauma-informed preaching.Joni Sancken (26:23):So this was, a distinction between healing and curing that was lifted up to me by one of my colleagues at the seminary where I teach. And, he had talked about how curing is this kind of miraculous, mysterious, instantaneous, resolution of whatever the, the trouble is. And that we do experience this in our world, but that most of the time, this is something that's eschatological. We don't experience it this side of the realm of God, but that people take that idea of curing and they apply it when they hear the word healing and that he said, instead that our healing, we need to have a bigger sense of imagination for what healing is that healing is really rooted in the gifts of salvation and sanctification. And that these are offered to, to everyone. Like it's not something that only some people get and that it's so mysterious.Joni Sancken (27:14):Like this is something that God generously pours out upon us. And when we experience it, any taste of it, it's really a fruit of the resurrection that we get to taste now and healing can be social. It can be personal, it can be bodily, it can be relational, it can be structural, it can be ecological, like all these facets to how healing can unfold. And so when we're preaching, we need to not be afraid to name healing, and to look for healing and to lift up these kinds of evidence of healing in our world, because we're afraid of that, of that sense of curing. I mean, I think, I've experienced in a lot of churches that I've been a part of a reticence on the part of pastors to even ask for healing sometimes because they're afraid that,  we'll be disappointed and they want to kind of protect God's reputation is what it feels like.Joni Sancken (28:05):Like they don't want people to somehow think that God isn't out there, that God didn't receive the prayer because we didn't experience the cure that was asked for. But we can always ask for healing. And I think part of what that asking does, and we can even ask that God would make us more aware of, of healing. God, bring healing to the situation and make us aware of the healing that you are bringing, to this situation and to our world. Because I, I really do think that one of the ways that sin and brokenness function in our world is to blind us to the ways that God is active and part of our work as preachers. And I think especially important as trauma-informed preachers is to be looking for those places where God is bringing healing and hope and is active in our world because hope it's not so much of a feeling as it is an action and a muscle that we can grow.Joni Sancken (29:01):Like it's a practice that you have to do in order to experience the benefits from it. So hope is something that you can practice. You can build your hope muscle, and if your congregation is lacking in hope, you can build their hope muscles by, providing them, evidence of where we see God in our world and examples and stories and lifting those things up for them to see it. And then they begin to also see evidence of healing in their own lives. It really is life-changing as a preacher for you to have that kind of posture toward the world, knowing that you want to lift it up in your sermon and it's, it's contagious. I think it spreads. It's a good virus that can spread your congregation.Sushama Austin-Connor (29:42):That's right. That's right. I like the flexing the hope muscle. Yeah. I liked that image cause I like that it. It's something  I don't know if I've thought of practicing hope. Yep. Practicing the ability to be hopeful. I really liked that.Joni Sancken (29:56):For example, if you think about healing like structural healing. So we have a lot of spaces in our world that are not accessible to people who have various forms of disability. One of the gifts of the pandemic actually has been that church is suddenly super accessible to some of those folks who might not have been able to get into the building and in a good way. I mean, something that brings healing is to adapt our buildings so that everyone can come into them, like putting an elevator in a building that didn't have one is healing, building a ramp up to a platform. So that a person who is in a wheelchair can help lead worship like that is healing. Like that's a form of structural healing. I mean, that's something that we might not always think of as, a fruit of the resurrection, but, but you can name it as such.Sushama Austin-Connor (30:49):Yeah. And as you're speaking about healing and then also curing, I'm thinking of like wherein the moment of trying to heal and to, to talk about healing where we make room for grief. And I've been thinking about like grief this year, like kind of communal grief, the grief of this year, the grief for church leaders in, you know, not being able to touch and, you know, pass the peace with congregants for congregations, not to be able to, it feels like there's some communal grief happening as well.Joni Sancken (31:22):It has to happen. Yeah. The book that I'm working on now actually is looking at communal trauma, and processing that. And one of the practices that I'm looking at in that book is the practice of lament. And I think it's, it's an extremely rich practice. It has aspects of grief, but it also has aspects of protest that are, that are enabled against it. And it's a very kind of vulnerable and living dynamic in terms of relating to a God who, who can receive this experience of lament, but every single person has experienced loss this year. Not all of our losses have been equal, which has been one of the pains of this year as well. Like some have experienced so much more loss than others, but, everyone has lost something. I mean, even like the littlest kids in your, in your church, like they didn't have preschool like their preschool was canceled or they weren't able to have their birthday party or they couldn't hug their grandparents.Joni Sancken (32:17):I mean, this is huge. Just last week, my children were able to hug my parents for the first time in more than a year. And like, I know that's huge. And it was like, it was emotional for my parents and for my kids, like it was kind of a big deal. So I mean, that's, that is a loss. And like, I mean, it continues to be a loss, like you think in my mind, wow. Like, can we make up for this year? Like humans don't live that like human life is finite a lot. Like my son just turned five a year is a lot for him. Right? So, I mean, that's huge. And everyone has to have that. I mean, I think at the 2020 graduates who didn't have like their typical graduation, they didn't have like their proms. They didn't have like, whatever else they were supposed to have.Joni Sancken (33:02):Like sports teams were canceled. Those poor kids that graduated in 2020, then they started college. A lot of them in a weird, weird environments. Like, it's horrible. How can they, you can't get that back. And we have to have a way of, of, of somehow naming that and acknowledging it. And for congregations, I mean, many have lost members, not necessarily even from COVID, but members have passed away and we haven't been able to be together or to have a funeral or to acknowledge it. Like there needs to be definitely opportunities for communal lament and it can happen in a variety of ways. It can happen visually. It can happen through song. It can happen through spoken word. Pastors can be encouraging this now. I mean, sermons can be part of it too. Like you can name that experience. I mean, even just naming, like we have all lost something.Joni Sancken (33:53):if you're feeling sad, it's really normal. Like if you're feeling like disoriented, it's really normal, like to normalize those kinds of experiences that your members are having. Because a lot of times, I think especially American culture really tries to gloss over that. Like everyone's supposed to put on their big boy or big girl pants and get on with it, right? Like you're not supposed to wallow or to sit back or to acknowledge your vulnerability or that something has been hard for you. But I think that that stuffing down, it, it catches up with you eventually cause unprocessed trauma, it doesn't go away. It just lingers. And it comes out in different ways. Some of the material, if you've read Menakem, like, I mean, he talks about how this generational passing on what we don't deal with today. Our grandchildren may be dealing with in terms of kind of mass trauma, like cultural trauma, like large experience of, of societal trauma that we've had.Joni Sancken (34:53):So we really, I think we owe it to the future to try to process these things now. And I think church ideally should be a place where we can do that, where we can be honest and vulnerable and experience love and care and healing. Sushama Austin-Connor:That's right. Yeah. And with the racialized trauma too, what was really amazing to me is how the idea about the science and the DNA aspect of it that you don't even have to talk about it it's in you, was quite extraordinary. Yeah. I mean, trauma in you just in who you are in your bones and your DNA Joni Sancken:and the physical aspects of needing to express. I mean, one of the things since this book has come out, one of the areas when I'm working with groups that I try to push on beyond what I wrote is just the need.Joni Sancken (35:46):Like it's important to focus on the sermon, but trauma really is something that lives in your body and you have to find ways to work at this physically. And so even if you're the sermon is really important to you and that's kind of the center of your, your Protestant worship, especially to provide ways for your listeners to move their bodies, whether that's having a stress ball there in the, in the Pew that they can squeeze or like inviting them to move their bodies, like as part of worship, to get out that kind of, the tension that's part of holding that, that stress-related trauma response in their, in their bodies and in their systems, and working with, with communities of color as well. One of the challenges that I have is the sense of John Henry-ism, where, some folks are, working so hard all the time to succeed in a system that's completely stacked against them and that the toll that, that takes on their body over time and they're successful, but like their body just has no way of processing the racialized trauma that they experience constantly.Joni Sancken (36:56):Like we have to find ways to work at that and to do better with it and to acknowledge it and to name it. And this is something I think of specifically working with clergy because so many of our clergy are the successful folk who are like leading at such a high level and are doing like everything in their, in their lives and in their communities and in their families. And like, and it's so much, and you think, okay, like how much can your body take? Like, how do you take care of your, of your body here? I mean, one of the best ways that preachers can be trauma aware is to be aware of their own, woundedness and their own need, in the face of trauma. I mean, pastors have had the same stressors as everyone else this year, but they don't have some, they don't all have someone who's like caring for them or looking out for them.Sushama Austin-Connor (37:47):Yeah. I mean, I feel like pastors, we had a few check-ins throughout the year. And I feel like pastors are holding onto to even more from what, just from exactly what you just mentioned. Like yes, you have to pastor to people who are suffering in this time, but then you are suffering and having nowhere to lay your burdens down. Yeah. So to speak, right.Joni Sancken (38:14):Pastors are parents with their kids doing their homework and trying to film their worship service out of their living rooms. Right. While their spouse is working.Sushama Austin-Connor (38:24):Right. I want to make sure, cause I wanted to talk a lot about the, some of the practical aspects of the trauma-informed preaching. Can you just talk to us about what kinds of questions a trauma-informed preacher would ask? What are signs that your pastor is trauma-informed?  What, how do they, how would you approach the text as a trauma informed pastor? Yeah.Joni Sancken (38:49):This is something that I look at quite a bit in the book and I think, part of, part of coming to the scripture with awareness of trauma is also awareness of where there is already trauma in that text.  it's a, there's a book by David Carr called Holy Resilience, which is just amazing. And it looks at the traumatic origins of, Christian scripture. And he holds that,  that there was a lot of ancient,  sacred texts and that a lot of those texts were very kind of triumphant in their tone and that those texts have not survived. And he would say that well, in addition, obviously to kind of the sustaining activity of the spirit that we experienced through scripture, the living nature of our scripture, there's also a sense in which the fact that it deals with,  traumatic experience. So,  openly has, has been part of how it has survived.Joni Sancken (39:43):Like there's a sense of resilience and who God's people are that you can trace through the text.  I think part of what a trauma-informed preacher brings is his awareness of how trauma may have and how it may have influenced the writing of, of the scripture itself. I mean, it was just, it was a revelation to me to learn, like, to be reminded that most of our Old Testament was written down during the exile that these experiences in texts that existed before that experiences that they had that existed orally were written down when they were at fear of, of losing themselves completely, that they were living in a, in a context where they felt under threat and much had been taken away. And so that experience, it colors some of how we see God interacting with Israel in the Old Testament. Well, and to learn that part of the processing and making sense that survivors often experience is that sense of, of blaming,  that that's a big part of it.Joni Sancken (40:41):Like who, who did this, like as a stage in the processing of trauma that often there's a need to assign blame, whether that was a doctor's fault or it was my own fault. Like, and it's often as a stage, but we see that in scripture, like we see Israel blaming itself, we see Israel blaming God for things happening.  for me, it was especially helpful to look at some of the crucifixion narratives in the New Testament where,  Jewish writers of scripture, blame Jewish people for the death of Jesus. When we know that Rome killed Jesus, Jesus died on a Roman cross. The Jews did not kill Jesus, but they assign blame to themselves. And that perhaps that's a trauma response, a self-blame response to the trauma that they experienced and Jesus's violent death. So I mean to know all of that, to work into name that potentially in a sermon to say like, this is a trauma response, it allows people to say, okay, it happened there.Joni Sancken (41:40):I see it in my own world. Another thing I think that is really helpful in terms of looking at scripture is to look at those places that, that rub the raw places in our own world. Like where are these sense of connectedness,  and woundedness that the text highlights or, bumps against that might create pain in our listeners? Like how do we work with that? How do we name that? How do we not,  cause harm. I work quite a bit in the second chapter with,  Genesis 22 and the near-sacrifice of Isaac. And this is, this is such a rich text. It's a text that has been used throughout Christian history to help us understand something of our atonement theology, but it's a text that a lot of pastors are afraid of because there's so much going on in it because we have a parent who without questioning is prepared to kill his child for God.Joni Sancken (42:36):It's really disturbing. It's so disturbing to acknowledge that, to name it, to look at kind of the richness of what can be done with a text like that.  I think is extremely powerful. I'll never forget it. A number of years ago before I was even working on this trauma material. I had a student who had trauma in her background and she preached this text like Isaac, as a survivor in this text, she preached Abraham as not a good person. Like she cited evidence of all the places where he had failed God, had lied had harmed people. Wow. All along, I mean, she preached against the Christian tradition here basically, and then name lifted Isaac up as a survivor and it was a powerful, powerful sermon.  so I mean, it's possible to do something like that when the texts like this, I think with, with trauma awareness.Sushama Austin-Connor (43:30):Yeah. And to kind of see it put a new lens on it, to see it in a, in a, in a very new way. Joni Sancken (43:36):I think, another thing,  that that can be done, especially preaching from a Christian perspective. Is that putting the cross and resurrection in conversation with what we're preaching?  I mean, arguably, I think that can be done every Sunday from the vantage point of every text because this event is so pivotal and it does,  kind of encapsulate that sense of, of God experiencing,  the worst of what it is to, to suffer as a, as a human being.  because that's part of that and because the resurrection brings life to that situation allows that experience to not define who Jesus is ultimately.  but doesn't erase that situation, that the complexity of that placing it in conversation with another text,  can also bring that level of awareness and also allows our theology to do some of that heavy lifting for you as a preacher.Sushama Austin-Connor (44:30):Yeah. And I'm thinking, and I'm looking at our time, which is crazy. I have two more questions, one's quick and one, well, both can be quick, but so the one is, I just, I know so much of the, of chapter three, especially, but the book talks about sexual abuse. I didn't want to not at least talk about it in, in terms of the reality of preaching about that kind of hurt where the church hurt people. So I wondered if you could just talk about that and then I'm going to end by asking you about kind of your hopes, your hopes for this type of trauma-informed preaching.Joni Sancken (45:05):That chapter, where I looked at,  sexual abuse. Like I knew that I wanted to write about how the church has sometimes been a contributor to trauma has sometimes been a perpetrator has often actually been a perpetrator of trauma and in so many such an array of experiences, I mean, think of colonial experiences. We think of how the church has treated women, LGBTQ + folk. Like, I mean, there've been a lot of experiences of trauma at the hands of the church. I couldn't the book part of working in being part of the series was that it was like within a really specific word limit. The issue of sexual abuse was just crying out to me at that time. And so I use that as a lens, hopefully a way that congregations and pastors can work at other issues, other experiences where the church has harmed listeners.Joni Sancken (45:53): I think one of the things that came to me most with working on that chapter is just the need to, to be honest about what the Church has done and to not think that the something and that can be handled internally, that it needs to, there's a legal component of it. And that the leaders that betrayal that happens again, it doesn't go away just because that leader has been removed from power. That's something that has to be worked through with the congregation, like issues of trust,  issues of brokenness. I think almost every congregation that my husband and I have been a part of has some kind of a breach of trust that has happened with a pastor sometime in their history around sexual abuse. Like every single congregation that we've been a part of has this somewhere in their past. And I think to, to not name it, to not deal with it really invalidates the experience of people who have experienced that in the church.Joni Sancken (46:54):So the church apologizing, I think is, is really key and not apologizing in a way that somehow lets the church off the hook for it like a real apology that acknowledges that pain was done. I mean, I think that's really important. And then obviously, I mean, you can, the perpetrators are also forgiven, but to realize that this side of the realm of God, that it's very hard to stand with both a perpetrator and a survivor. And so I think,  one of the theological tools I used earlier in the book was this concept of Han that comes from my colleague Andrew Park. It's a, it's a Korean word and it means the sinned against. So this is, when we talk about sin, a lot of times we talk about active sin that someone is doing, but Han is sin that has done to you. Like you were a victim, like you had no say in the sin, you were the receiver of sin. And I think,  especially liberation theology, traditions would say that God stands on the side of the one who has had that experience. Of course, obviously, God offers love and forgiveness to all sinners, but to the one who was on, who had Han like that's, God stands gives us specially devoted love to, to those who have had han perpetrated against them. And so I think for congregations to be aware of that and to protect survivors in their midst,  is really important so that it can continue to be a safe space for them.(Waterdrop sound)Sushama Austin-Connor (48:26):What is your hope for this book? What is your hope for what it offers pastors, your hope for people who, clergy,  who are going to try to do trauma-informed preaching?Joni Sancken (48:36):I really don't want pastors to be afraid to go there. Really central to the core of what this book was about is acknowledging. I mean, when I was in seminary and I do this with my students, if you encounter someone that has serious trauma and lingering effects, obviously they need to be under the care of a mental health professional. Like that is an absolute, like trauma is serious business and you don't want to harm someone by not having them under that care. But just because that's the case, they may have been referred to someone. They may be seeing a therapist and may be under the care of a physician, but they're still part of the body of Christ. Like there's still a member, like there's still a brother or sister and like, we need to be preaching to everyone and we need to be,  empowering listeners so that we can interact with each other and ways that are helpful and healing and that are combating isolation and brokenness.Joni Sancken (49:31):And I think stigma that's so often attached to people who are survivors. So I think,  looking at that person as a brother and sister first, not allowing that experience to completely define who they are. So I think what my hope is is that by reading this book, that pastors feel a little less afraid if they encounter someone who has that kind of experience because survivors are everywhere. I mean, hopefully that they're equipped, they're empowered. They have a few tools, they have some sense of, of direction, of how to not be afraid and how to preach into this as an opportunity to speak the gospel in this situation,  rather than ignoring it or running away from it or denying it or whatever other kind of tools that we were using before to manage our own anxiety. So I think that's probably my biggest hope and that ultimately, maybe some people might begin to experience some sense of healing in their congregations or with their members.  as a result of, of preaching into this setting, that God might, might do something through it. I mean, obviously all of us just as our sermons, we pray that God might use these words. I think it's the same for those of us who write that God might use it somehow,  to do God's work.Sushama Austin-Connor (50:45):Thank you so much. Thank you so much for this time and for this book and what you had to offer to preachers and to lay leaders and to,  just people interested in preaching and oratory, how we speak, how we care for one another. I really appreciate your time.Joni Sancken (51:01):Oh, and I've enjoyed doing this a lot. This is I'm thankful for the chance to talk about this.Dayle Rounds (51:08):You've been listening to The Distillery. Interviews are conducted by me, Dayle Rounds, and me, Sushama Austin-Connor, and I'm Shari Oosting. I'm Amar Peterman and I am in charge of production. Like what you're hearing? Subscribe at Apple Podcasts, Stitcher or your preferred podcast app. The Distillery is a production of Princeton Theological Seminary's Office of Continuing Education. You can find out more at thedistillery.ptsem.edu. Thanks for listening.(Waterdrop sound)

In the fall of 2020 a powerful collection of theological reflections was published entitled, "Liberating the Politics of Jesus: Renewing Peace Theology through the Wisdom of Women." In today's episode we get to hear from Dr. Elizabeth Soto Albrecht. In addition to serving Mennonite Church USA and Mennonite Central Committee, this theologian and professor was also an editor and contributor to this book. We hope you enjoy her conversation with ~ing host, Allison Maus! We are grateful for the continued support of Everence, a faith-based financial services organization who believe it's possible to incorporate your faith and values with your decisions about money. To take a closer look at the difference it makes when your financial services company is rooted in something more than making a profit visit Everence.com. Securities offered through ProEquities Inc., member FINRA/SIPC. ~ing Podcast is a production of MennoMedia, a nonprofit Publisher that creates thoughtful, Anabaptist resources to enrich faith in a complex world. To find out more, visit us online at MennoMedia.org --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/ing-pod/message

Today is a discussion with Jason Kauffmann & Jean Kilheffer Hess, creators of the Anabaptist History Today project—the project captures Anabaptist experiences (including Mennonite and Amish communities) throughout the pandemic. Jason Kauffman is the Director of Archives and Records Management for Mennonite Church USA in Elkhart, Indiana. Along with managing and providing access to the recorded history of the church, he also interprets and raises awareness about Mennonite history for the broader denomination. A graduate of Goshen College (a Mennonite college in northern Indiana), he has a M.A. in Latin American History from the University of New Mexico and a Ph.D. in Latin American History from the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill.  He is also a Certified Archivist and has a Digital Archives Specialist Certificate from the Society of American Archivists. He has a growing interest in oral history and directed his first oral history project in 2019. Jean Kilheffer Hess is Executive Director of Lancaster Mennonite Historical Society in Lancaster, Pennsylvania. With a staff of 18, three museums, and a historic site hosting a home built in 1719 and a Native longhouse replica, the Lancaster Mennonite Historical Society interprets Mennonite life and early Pennsylvania history. Jean is a graduate of Messiah University and Anabaptist Mennonite Biblical Seminary. She is especially energized by collaborative efforts that help people value their own and others' stories: both historical and "history in the making."

On today's episode (our twentieth ~ing episode!), producer Ben Wideman sits down with three people who were actively involved with the Voices Together hymnal project - a joint initiative between Mennonite Church USA and Mennonite Church Canada, published by MennoMedia. In this episode we learn about why it was time to release a new Mennonite hymnal, how this process came together, and some of the unexpected twists and turns along the way in creating the final published product. We are grateful for the continued support of Everence, a faith-based financial services organization who believe it's possible to incorporate your faith and values with your decisions about money. To take a closer look at the difference it makes when your financial services company is rooted in something more than making a profit visit Everence.com. Securities offered through ProEquities Inc., member FINRA/SIPC. ~ing Podcast is a production of MennoMedia, a nonprofit Publisher that creates thoughtful, Anabaptist resources to enrich faith in a complex world. To find out more, visit us online at MennoMedia.org --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/ing-pod/message

On today's episode ing host Allison Maus explores the guns-into-garden tools movement with Mike Martin and Shane Claiborne - two faith leaders who have chosen to use the blacksmith anvil to perform a modern swords into plowshares transformation. Shane and Mike will be discussing how the RAWTools organization began, and what it might mean for people of faith who are searching for answers amid the national gun violence conversation. Today's episode is supported by Eastern Mennonite University, an educational institution of Mennonite Church USA, dedicated to preparing students of diverse religious and cultural backgrounds to serve and lead in a global context. We are grateful for the continued support of Everence, a faith-based financial services organization who believe it's possible to incorporate your faith and values with your decisions about money. To take a closer look at the difference it makes when your financial services company is rooted in something more than making a profit visit Everence.com. Securities offered through ProEquities Inc., member FINRA/SIPC. ~ing Podcast is a production of MennoMedia, a nonprofit Publisher that creates thoughtful, Anabaptist resources to enrich faith in a complex world. To find out more, visit us online at MennoMedia.org --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/ing-pod/message

Amos 5:21-24 MLK Sunday About the guest speaker: Elizabeth Soto was born in Arecibo, Puerto Rico and in the last 30 years has been a proud resident of the southeast part of the city of Lancaster. She worked 10 yrs with Lancaster Theological Seminary as Professor of Practice coordinating field education, designing the cross-cultural courses and teaching. Served as a ChaplainInterpreter at W&B Hospital/LGH. Elizabeth was ordained as a minister in Colombia, South America in 2004, and presently the Atlantic Coast Conference of Mennonite Churches holds her credentials. Most recently she completed 14 months serving as a consultant with Mennonite Disaster Service as the administrator of the response on Hurricane Maria’s disaster in Puerto Rico. Elizabeth has a MAR from Seminario Evangélico de Puerto Rico & Anabaptist Mennonite Biblical Seminary in Elkhart IN. In 2005 Elizabeth completed a doctorate in ministry emphasis on International Feminism. She published her D.Min dissertation in 2007 with Orbis Books on the theme of Family Violence and Theology of Non Violence of Jesus. Most recently her long dream project came out in September 2020, published by T&T Clark, she co-edited Liberating the Politics of Jesus: Renewing Peace Theology Through the Wisdom of Women. She has been a writer on other projects both in Spanish and English for leadership formation in her denomination in the US and Latin America/Caribbean. She is passionate on women’s issues/Latina identity, racial justice and community development for the unprivileged. Elizabeth served as Moderator of Mennonite Church USA from 2013-2015, being the first Latina to serve in that position. She is married to Frank Albrecht, a high school teacher, and a loving mother of two young adult daughters and her spouses. Currently her church is Laurel St. Mennonite church in the south west of the city and works as a Spanish Interpreter in local hospitals.

Happy Halloween! When the 2003 issue of Rolling Stone originally listed the 500 greatest albums of all time, the iconic soundtrack to the movie Purple Rain came in at number 72. In 2012 the album had fallen slightly to number 76. The new 2020 Rolling Stone list of the 500 Greatest Albums of All Time pushes this Prince album all the way up into the top 10 to the number 8 spot! Since Mike and Ben didn't grow up listening to this album, we brought back our friend Glen Guyton as our guest, who originally joined us for our review of Public Enemy's It Takes A Nation of Millions. Glen is the Executive Director of Mennonite Church USA, and in addition to his appreciation for church and theology, he loves culture and music and grew up with Prince's music. He's the perfect guest for today's episode! As a reminder, you can find our favorite songs from the RS500 on our Spotify playlist right here - we'll be updating it as we go with our favorite songs from each album! You can check out Rolling Stone's new 2020 list right here. We'd love it if you would review us in your favorite podcast app, and while you're at it, give us a like on our Facebook Page or Instagram, follow us on Twitter, and send us a message if you have any comments or questions. --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/soundlogic/message Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/soundlogic/support

Raleigh Mennonite and Chapel Hill Mennonite Fellowship held a joint service online with Glen Guyton, executive director of Mennonite Church USA, who brought the message from John 15. As followers of Jesus, there are expectations for us. There are things we are called to do. There needs to be fruit, something tangible that comes from being a Christian. We need to be accountable. We need to be willing to love sacrificially. We need to be willing to take risks. We’re called to be in kinship with each other. We are to obey God’s commandments. We’re obligated to have joy and live a life of peace. We’re called to stand by each other. A call is a summons to a particular course of action, influenced by the divine.”

We continue our summer worship series in which we listen to and learn from Black preachers. Today: Glen Guyton, the Executive Director of our denomination, Mennonite Church USA. He loves pie and is funny (though his wife may disagree). And he preaches a good word: When we flee from our path, or lock ourselves away in fear, God invites us back again and again ("I got you..."), and Jesus breathes the Holy Spirit on us, empowering us for the work of transformation and perhaps even some "good trouble" (RIP John Lewis). Sermon - "The Journey" - begins at 20:45.--Genesis 28.10-22; John 20.19-22PHOTO: lettering by Amy Marie Epp, 2020--Permission to podcast the music in this service obtained from One License with license #A-726929. All rights reserved.As I went down to the river - Music & Words: American folk song, arr. ©2004 James E. ClemensOther credits:You've got a place - Music & Words: traditional spiritualJubilee - Music & Words: ©2018 Michael Bade, used with permissionSermon - “The Journey,” Glen GuytonFollow the Drinking Gourd: An Underground Railroad Story, retold by Cari Meister, consultant David Burgess

In this first episode of Teaching Peace, Addie Banks and Jason Storbakken talk with, Glen Guyton, the executive director of Mennonite Church USA, the largest denomination of Peace Christians in the United States. They explore themes related to peacemaking in institutions and congregations. www.brooklynpeace.center

The wait is over all you Hip Hop fans! We finally get to our first classic Rap album on the RS 500 list: Public Enemy's "It takes a Nation of Millions to Hold Us Back". Our special guest, Glen Guyton (Executive Director of Mennonite Church USA!), joins us to tackle this influential album. As a reminder, you can find our new Spotify playlist right here - we'll be updating it as we go with our favorite songs from each album! You can check out Rolling Stone's full list right here. We'd love it if you would review us in your favorite podcast app, and while you're at it, give us a like on our Facebook Page or Instagram, follow us on Twitter, and send us a message if you have any comments or questions. --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/soundlogic/message Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/soundlogic/support

Eric Massanari, M.Div., is an ordained pastor in the Mennonite Church USA, living in Newton, Kansas where he serves as a spiritual director and the chaplain of a continuing care community for older adults. He serves on the SDI Coordinating Council, where he brings a passion for inter-faith learning, community building, and companioning people who are exploring the fertile ground of elderhood and those who are nearing the end of life. An avid poet and essayist, and a personal good friend.   Part 2 of my conversation with Eric Massanari focuses on the topic of death and companioning people at end of life. Last week we learned about what it means to be curious. Inquisitive. Leaning into the unknown and dwelling there in a state of openness and hospitality. As a chaplain Eric encounters and companions a lot of people who are at the end of their life, and who pass on. This also awakens in him a sense of curiosity and humility about his own life, which opens him up to a deep sense of gratitude, and compassion for others. I (Matt Whitney) am so grateful to Eric for his openness and vulnerability in the questions I ask him around his companioning work. What I heard from him was not specific worded answers to these questions, but rather reflection on how he’s living out these questions every day, and by doing so means leaning further and further into a place of not-knowing. --- Support for this week’s podcast comes from SDI’s upcoming contemplative writing retreat, called: Writing at the Edge of the World, June 15th through June 19th, 2020, on beautiful Orcas Island in Washington State, USA. Led by award-winning writer Tania Casselle, and NEA Fellow and Zen Teacher Sean Murphy, this retreat is designed to meet you wherever you are on your creative journey. You’ll leave with a notebook full of writing, and a fresh set of tools to invigorate your creative voice. Learn more on our homepage, sdiworld.org – and you’ll find the Writers Workshop in the homepage slider.

Eric Massanari, M.Div., is an ordained pastor in the Mennonite Church USA, living in Newton, Kansas where he serves as a spiritual director and the chaplain of a continuing care community for older adults. He serves on the SDI Coordinating Council, where he brings a passion for inter-faith learning, community building, and companioning people who are exploring the fertile ground of elderhood and those who are nearing the end of life. An avid poet and essayist, and a personal good friend. Eric joined me for a conversation about his work as a spiritual companion, which we’ve turned into two episodes. The first one, here, touches on curiosity – which here I would define as a posture of listening that is genuinely inquisitive and engaged with someone they are listening to. And not just curious about what that person is saying or thinking or feeling, but curious also about the ways the listener finds themselves responding to what they are receiving. Part 2 of this conversation will come out in our next episode, where we focus on the topic of death and companioning people at end of life. --- Support for this week’s podcast comes from SDI’s upcoming contemplative writing retreat, called: Writing at the Edge of the World, June 15th through June 19th, 2020, on beautiful Orcas Island in Washington State, USA. Led by award-winning writer Tania Casselle, and NEA Fellow and Zen Teacher Sean Murphy, this retreat is designed to meet you wherever you are on your creative journey. You’ll leave with a notebook full of writing, and a fresh set of tools to invigorate your creative voice. Learn more on our homepage, sdiworld.org – and you’ll find the Writers Workshop in the homepage slider.  

Somewhere in the Middle welcomes Food Activist Yvette Blair-Lavallais Reverend Yvette Blair-Lavallais was seven years old, sitting in the pew at Lee Chapel AME Church in Dallas, when she sensed that God was calling her to preach. By the age of 10, she became involved in children’s Sunday School and afterschool Bible studies. God continued to shape her for ministry as she took on leadership roles within the church and the community throughout her teen and young adult years. Yvette has held pastoral appointments in The United Methodist Church, including serving as the Associate Pastor of Discipleship at the historic St. Luke “Community” United Methodist Church in Dallas. Her fruitful ministry included cultivating and leading the Young Adult Ministry, Women’s Ministry, Bible study, e2 Elevate Your Experience Wednesday Night worship, and serving as Director of The Zan Wesley Holmes, Jr. Servant Leadership Institute. Yvette was named the 2017 Woman of the Year by IMessenger News/Texas Metro News for speaking out and giving voice to the numerous clergywomen who have been victims of sexual assault in the church. She is featured in the 2019 documentary, "Shatter the Silence," produced by Cheryl Allison and WOW Films. Yvette speaks to the need for the church to repent and to dismantle the patriarchy that perpetuates violation against women. Yvette has spoken at conferences including the 2018 "Talking Bout a Revolution" Women's Conference presented by the Mennonite Church USA and she was invited to present her paper, “Where Do We Go From Here: When the Church Disturbs the Status Quo” at the National Civil Rights Museum in Memphis, Tennessee as part of their MLK 50 Memphis Teach-In. Yvette wrote and released her first book, Being Ruth: Pressing Through Life’s Struggles with Fearless Faith, in the summer of 2017. She weaves this biblical story of the ancient sacred text with real-life, practical application of navigating and through challenges and getting to the life-giving spaces that God has already created. Yvette is a native of Dallas, Texas, holds a BA in Journalism from the University of North Texas, and has more than 25 years of experience in media, corporate communications, public relations and non-profit, including receiving a congressional appointment to serve as the Public Relations Specialist at the Smithsonian Institution in Washington, DC. She is a writing coach and professional editor and has helped more than 20 pastors publish books.

Message by Glen Guyton, executive director of Mennonite Church USA.

How do we #BringThePeace to our communities? Mennonite Church USA Executive Director Glen Guyton says, “People say that we are a historic peace church, but I say, hey, we need to be a peace church of today.” Learn more about Mennonite Church USA’s #BringThePeace campaign by listening to this episode of the Ohio Conference Cast. While visiting Ohio this month,… Read More » The post How do we #BringThePeace? A conversation with Glen Guyton appeared first on Ohio Mennonite Conference.

Doug Basinger reads the contribution of Sabrina Lindquist, SMC's representative to the Mennonite Church USA delegate assembly.

Madeleine Kelly Kellogg reflects on the highlights and experiences of being a youth at Mennonite Church USA youth assembly.

An interview with Dr. Angela Gorrell, who is an ordained pastor in the Mennonite Church USA and currently an Associate Research Scholar at the Yale Center for Faith & Culture. Dr. Gorrell shares her extensive work and experience with new media and how new media presents us with glorious possibilities and profound brokenness. She also discusses how new media provides us with new, profound ways to practice hospitality such as rejoicing with those who rejoice and mourning with those who mourn, among other ways. Dr. Gorrell also gives us some tools and resources you can use to navigate new media more hospitably and faithfully, and shares her new media rule for life and why you should have one too. New media gives us the opportunity connect and build community with people from all over the world; people we wouldn't have encountered otherwise. Dr. Gorrell reminds us to do so by welcoming them the same way God welcomes us.

We youth leaders understand frugality, especially in small churches. But how do you know when you're being frugal, and when you're just underfunding your youth program?Further, how do we get our church to help pay for the youth program? Today's guest, Glen Guyton, has GREAT advice on these topics and more. As someone who spent years in youth ministry, he's got lots of experience. As an added bonus, he's currently the Executive Director for the Mennonite Church USA. So he's got lots of perspective to share!We mentioned a bunch of books:Sustainable Youth Ministry, by Mark DeVriesSmaller(er) Church Youth Ministry, by Brad Fiscus and Stephanie CaroSticky Faith, from the Fuller Youth InstituteGrowing Young, also from the Fuller Youth Institute

A large groups of SMCers traveled to Boise this summer and had a great time! Pastor Megan reports on the annual meeting of Pacific Northwest Mennonite Conference that took place in Boise ID at the end of June. She shares stories, reflections, business, "fun details," and highlights from our time of worship and delegate meetings, service projects and shared meals, anvils and donuts, and even getting to know the new Executive Director of Mennonite Church USA, Glen Guyton. [PHOTO: presenting a garden tool made from a gun to survivors of gun violence who bravely shared their stories, having turned their trauma into public activism]

In this episode of the Ohio Conference Cast, hosts Bill Seymour and Thomas Dunn chat with Terry Shue, who recently completed his work with Mennonite Church USA as director of leadership development. Bill, Thomas and Terry discuss a wide range of topics, including (among other things) new staff members for Mennonite Church USA, Mennonite World Conference, and Terry’s hopes for… Read More » The post What’s holding us together? — Another conversation with Terry Shue appeared first on Ohio Mennonite Conference.

“We have been praying for you [Mennonite Church USA],” says Bishop Amos Muhagachi, a leader in the Tanzanian Mennonite Church who is currently studying at Anabaptist Mennonite Biblical Seminary in Elkhart, Indiana. In this episode of the Ohio Conference Cast, hosts Bill Seymour and Thomas Dunn talk with Bishop Amos Muhagachi about his experiences with seeking peace on the national level… Read More » The post Stories from Tanzania – seeking peace and dealing with difficult issues appeared first on Ohio Mennonite Conference.

Talking Off The Couch podcast focuses on mental health and mental wellness within the community of color. Tatiana Smith who is a Licensed Professional Counselor in Dallas, Texas decided that it is time to shed light and break stigmas about mental health/wellness in the communities of color. This podcast is a voice for the mental health community as well as the average person. Talking Off The Couch will make you feel Ok about not being Ok.   This week's episode I speak with Crystal Joseph about cultural trauma, identity, and the black church. Crystal is a Licensed Clinical Professional Counselor in the State of Maryland, Licensed Professional Counselor in the Commonwealth of Virginia, National Certified Counselor, and Board-Certified Case Manager.  Holding a Master of Arts in Counseling Psychology from The Chicago School of Professional Psychology, Crystal’s clinical training includes:  Cognitive Behavior Therapy within individual, family, and group therapy settings. Crystal specializes in Anxiety, Depression, Racial Identity formation, and Cultural Trauma in African-Americans. Her love for psychology began in high school after completing college-level psychology classes.  She obtained a Bachelor of Arts in Developmental Psychology from the College of William and Mary with a secondary major of Black Studies. As the author of Conversation with A Clinician of Color: Likeness, Lucy & Lemonade, Crystal hopes to break down the stigma of seeking mental health treatment in the Black community with first-person commentary. Crystal touts herself as a “people’s champion” providing authentic reflection to those who require assistance to achieve their life goals via therapeutic intervention. Crystal gained care coordination experience in a private DC-Metropolitan firm.  Simultaneously serving as a Qualified Intellectual Disability Professional and pursuing her graduate degree, Crystal acquired collaborative skills and combined it with leadership training while managing a Department of Health licensed intermediate care facility. Her love for research afforded her the ability to work with Georgetown University’s Department of Psychiatry to develop a white paper on the subject of case management.    Not only does she practice in an office setting, she is an active citizen in her community. Returning to the College of William and Mary, Crystal was featured on the “Onward and Upward: Alumni of Color Career Conversation” panel sharing her unique trajectory as a Black, female business owner hosted in the Cohen Career Center; sponsored by the Hulon Willis Alumni Association, LatinX, and the office of University Advancement. This event served as impetus for mentorship and internship of aspiring clinicians. During Minority Mental Health month, which is observed during July, Crystal fielded questions for the Human Rights Campaign (national office) Facebook live stream, “Nothing to Hide,” a series of panels held to promote mental health and wellness in the LGBTQIA+ community. As a sponsor for Black and Missing Foundation, Inc., she created a team to participate in the annual Hope Without Boundaries 5K Run/Walk. Crystal presented on mental health hot topics and the pastoral relationship in Orlando, Florida for Mennonite Church USA national convention. She served as an expert panelist during a community forum hosted by her home church C3 Church in Hampton, Virginia, moderated by actor Lamman Rucker. Topics discussed were based on Greenleaf, a drama series broadcasted on the Oprah Winfrey Network.  Crystal is a volunteer of the Disaster Mental Health function of the American Red Cross, National Capitol region. ​ Where you can find Crystal Joseph: http://psycyourmind.com IG and Twitter: thereal_psycyourmind   Podcast hashtag #talkingoffthecouch and #TOTCpodcast Email: info@talkingoffthecouch.com Facebook-Talking off the Couch Podcast Facebook Group-Talking Off The Couch Village Instagram-talkingoffthecouch Twitter- podcasttotc   If you have questions or would like to discuss sponsorship opportunities, email us at: talkingoffthecouch@gmail.com Make sure to also visit our website at www.talkingoffthecouch.com 

Rex Rempel auctioned off a sermon on the topic of bid-winner's choosing to support our youth traveling to Orlando for the Mennonite Church USA gathering. Pete Lagerwey won the bid and set him up with two stories from Matthew of God naming Jesus "My Beloved" (baptism and transfiguration), as well as the story of Abraham and Isaac from Genesis, and some Isaiah for good measure. Listen to the beautiful result of this Spirit-collaboration...

This is a story about how one Christian denomination has voted to boycott Israel. Find out why by listening now.

In this final podcast from the Mennonite Church USA Convention in Orlando, host Bill Seymour talks to Jared Chase, youth pastor at Sharon Mennonite Church in Plain City, and four post-high young adults from Sharon Mennonite: Mandy Miller, Emily Miller, Josh Yoder and Megan Colwell. These young adults reflect on their convention experience and share their hopes for Mennonite Church USA. The post Ohio Conference Cast Orlando – Young adults share their reflections appeared first on Ohio Mennonite Conference.

Pastor Megan shares some stories and initial reflections from her time at the biennial gathering of Mennonite Church USA in Orlando, July 4-8.

In this episode of the Ohio Conference Cast, Ervin Stutzman, executive director of Mennonite Church USA, has a challenge for the Ohio Conference: “Stretch yourself a bit by hanging around with people sometimes who have a different perspective than you. You don’t have to be like them. You don’t have to make your church like theirs, but expect that there’ll… Read More » The post Interview with Ervin Stutzman appeared first on Ohio Mennonite Conference.

Activist and pastor Isaac Villages grabs the mic with Adam and I (Josh) to discuss Durham protests and his life growing up with immigrant parents. We talk a bit of theology, what happens when you disagree with your superiors over gay marriage, and how protests in Durham often involve gas-masked officer holding assault rifles as marchers sing hymns. Isaac S. Villegas is pastor of Chapel Hill Mennonite Fellowship in Chapel Hill, North Carolina. He is a member of the governing board of the North Carolina Council of Churches and has served on on the denominational board of Mennonite Church USA, as well as non-profit organizations, including School for Conversion and Open Table Ministries. He is the co-author of "Presence: Giving and Receiving God." He has a B.A. from Westmont College and an M.Div. from Duke Divinity School. A big thanks to Hardworker band for letting us use their songs "Homesick" and "Moriah." This will be our last episode for 2016. Keep a lookout for episode 12 in early January.

In this episode, Joanna and Tim interview Mark Van Steenwyk. Mark Van Steenwyk is the co-founder of the Mennonite Worker in Minneapolis, an organizer at JesusRadicals.com, a producer of the Iconocast podcast, and the author of That Holy Anarchist and the upcoming book, the unKingdom of God: Embracing the Subversive Power of Repentance (which is available for pre-order). This interview is co-sponsored by the Mennonite Church USA and the Christian Peacemaker Teams and is part of the Widening the Circle mini-series. To more deeply engage a commitment to undoing oppression with seasoned justice-seekers, the Iconocast is launching a mini-series, Widening the Circle: Experiments in Christian Discipleship. Editor Joanna Shenk and the co-hosts will interview chapter authors about their continuing journeys of discipleship, asking questions like: How has their thinking deepened around the themes they wrote about? What do they see happening in the discipleship community movement currently? What is taking shape in their community/organization? What have they let go? In the meantime, make sure to check out Widening the Circle, with stories including from Dr. Vincent Harding, Reba Place Fellowship, Christian Peacemaker Teams, Mark Van Steenwyk, Andrea Ferich, Anton Flores and Jesce Walz. * * * * * Intro and bumper music for this episode is  All Along the Watchtower as performed by Jimi Hendrix.

Chapel: "Investing in Hope," Ervin Stutzman, Mennonite Church USA Executive Director