Following the Fire

Steve talks to Josh Kaiser, former pastor turned deconstruction coach, about the different places people tend to end up at the end of their deconstruction / faith journeys (if there even is an end). Josh has a lot of wisdom and insight to this whole crazy process, so be sure to give this one your time. Josh Kaiser's TikTok: @theLocalHeretic (https://www.tiktok.com/@thelocalheretic) Origen (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origen) Jerome (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerome) Justin Matyr (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Justin_Martyr) Augustine (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Augustine_of_Hippo) Mark Driscoll (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Driscoll) Vivant Life Coaching (https://www.vivantcoaching.com) Brewery Vivant (https://breweryvivant.com) Christian Mysticism (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_mysticism) Josh's video about mysticism (https://www.tiktok.com/@thelocalheretic/video/7155234118576508202) John Philip Newell (https://www.earthandsoul.org/john-philip-newell) Cognitive Dissonance (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_dissonance) Pete Enns (https://thebiblefornormalpeople.com/about-pete-enns/) The Bible for Normal People (https://thebiblefornormalpeople.com/) Richard Rohr (https://cac.org/about/our-teachers/richard-rohr/) Film: “Ghandi” (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gandhi_(film)) Hymn: “O Sacred Head” (https://youtu.be/p5hjdz4xZF4) Vertical vs. Horizontal Morality (https://stevecullum.com/2017/04/27/vertical-vs-horizontal-morality/) Annihilationism (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annihilationism) Podcast: The Local Heretic Live (https://thelocalhereticlive.buzzsprout.com) Thomas Merton (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Merton) Book: “The Naked Now” by Richard Rohr (https://amzn.to/3AuzOFV) Book: “The Universal Christ” (https://amzn.to/3i0S6YS) Book:“Breathing Under Water: Spirituality and the Twelve Steps” (https://amzn.to/3Vewnv0) Books by John Philip Newell (https://amzn.to/3hV1kWt) All of our music is by Daniel Wheat: * Find more music and merch at his Bandcamp (https://danielwheat.bandcamp.com) * Follow his Instagram (https://www.instagram.com/danielwheatmusic/) * And listen on Spotify (https://open.spotify.com/artist/26EjMDBdKGmxBXEwkGWCkd?si=bQ8wtAeiSImTVmf8asqxrA) Special Guest: Josh Kaiser.

We read “The Watchman Decree” (and even hear a disturbing recitation of it) and discuss the implications of Christian Nationalism in America. What do we do about it? Can we do anything? Is maybe just a little bit okay? (Spoiler: No. No, it's not) Following the Fire Facebook Group (https://www.facebook.com/groups/487826142679626) Plymouth Congregational United Church of Christ (https://www.plymouthucc.org/) Free Dad Hugs shirt (https://amzn.to/3GlXZtW) Free Mom Hugs (official) (https://freemomhugs.org) Christian Nationalism (https://www.christiansagainstchristiannationalism.org/statement) Theocracy (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theocracy) Sharia Law (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sharia) Book: “The Founding Myth” by Andrew Seidel (https://amzn.to/3EbCyJh) The Watchman Decree (https://flashpoint.govictory.com/atlanta-declaration/) Article: “The ‘Watchman Decree' is a scary vision of Christian nationalism in action” (https://onlysky.media/hemant-mehta/the-watchman-decree-is-a-scary-vision-of-christian-nationalism-in-action/) The Moral Majority (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moral_Majority) Samuel Perry (https://www.ou.edu/cas/soc/people/faculty/samuel-perry) Book: “Do I Stay Christian?” By Brian McLaren (https://amzn.to/3X7bTpt) Parable of the Weeds in Matthew 13 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+13%3A24-43&version=NRSVUE) Theme music by Daniel Wheat! * Find his music and merch at his Bandcamp (https://danielwheat.bandcamp.com) * And follow his Instagram (https://www.instagram.com/danielwheatmusic/)

The things we lift up and admire say a lot about us. Why, then, do so many evangelical Christians in America lift up the worst of us like Donald Trump, Elon Musk, and others. Has Christianity always been like this? Is there any way to redeem it? Halloween was weirdly warm Nathan can only handle “evangelical scary” Steve has numbed himself to everything “scary” Series: “Midnight Mass” (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Midnight_Mass_(miniseries)) Film Genre: Elevated Horror (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Art_horror) Film: “Midsommar” (https://youtu.be/1Vnghdsjmd0) Director: Martin McDonnaugh (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_McDonagh) Film: “In Bruges (https://youtu.be/96harmMOyiY) Purgatory (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purgatory) Bruges, Belgium (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bruges) www.letterboxd.com (https://letterboxd.com) 6 Degrees of Kevin Bacon (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six_Degrees_of_Kevin_Bacon) Film: “Amelie” (https://youtu.be/HUECWi5pX7o) Film: “Rubber” (https://youtu.be/hVKgY1ilx0Y) Film: “The Social Dilemma” (https://youtu.be/uaaC57tcci0) Elon Musk buys Twitter (https://techcrunch.com/2022/10/27/elon-musk-bought-twitter/) Tesla (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla,_Inc.) SpaceX (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SpaceX) Ford valuation (https://companiesmarketcap.com/ford/marketcap/) Tesla valuation (https://companiesmarketcap.com/tesla/marketcap/) Attention Economy (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attention_economy) Lauren Boebert (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lauren_Boebert) Mark Driscoll (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Driscoll) Colt McCoy (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colt_McCoy) Series: “Knight Rider” (https://youtu.be/jQfU1WIaukg) Film: “Doc Hollywood” (https://youtu.be/STvC6FXu1-M) Film: “Cars” (https://youtu.be/pQly7_Cj34U) Weird Al Yankovic (https://www.weirdal.com) Documentary: “God Forbid” about Jerry Falwell, Jr. (https://youtu.be/0NbSoiJn0sc) The Power Team (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_Team) Height of CEO's in America (https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/the-necktie-syndrome-why-ceos-tend-to-be-significantly-taller-than-the-average-male/articleshow/10178115.cms?from=mdr) Psychology Today (https://www.psychologytoday.com/us) Cracker Barrel (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cracker_Barrel) Book: “The Divine Conspiracy” by Dallas Willard (https://amzn.to/3hxVvhP) The Beatitudes (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beatitudes) Constantine (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constantine_the_Great) IXTHYS fish symbol (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ichthys) Book: “Do I Stay Christian?” By Dan McLaren (https://amzn.to/3UuInbF) Jairus' Daughter (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raising_of_Jairus%27_daughter) Jesus healing the bleeding woman (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus_healing_the_bleeding_woman)

Embracing the F-Word: What is Feminism and how it can help us all be fully human Special guest Alison Buxton joins us again to discuss that OTHER dirty f-word: Feminism. She tells us what it is, what it isn't, and why it matters. The 2 dudes on this podcast learned a LOT from Alison, including how feminism is connected to everything in ways we didn't expect. Friends don't have to use shortened names Ms. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ms.) Book Club Episode: (https://www.followingthefire.com/30) “The Making of Biblical Womanhood” by Beth Allison Barr Rush Limbaugh (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rush_Limbaugh) “Feminazi” (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feminazi) Book: “The Poisonwood Bible” by Barbara Kingsolver (https://amzn.to/3fp6cSS) Jane Fonda Vietnam War protests (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jane_Fonda#Opposition_to_the_Vietnam_War) bell hooks (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bell_hooks) Bra burning (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-45303069) Women's March 2017 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_Women%27s_March) Black Lives Matter (https://blacklivesmatter.com) History of Feminism (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_feminism) Intersectionality (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intersectionality) Dr. Kimberlé Crenshaw (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kimberlé_Crenshaw) 19th Amendment (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nineteenth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution) Jim Crow laws (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Crow_laws) MeToo movement (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MeToo_movement) Tarana Burke (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tarana_Burke) From “The Handmaid's Tale” - Gilead (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Handmaid%27s_Tale#Setting) Clarence Thomas (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clarence_Thomas#Supreme_Court_nomination_and_confirmation) Anita Hill (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anita_Hill#Allegations_of_sexual_harassment_against_Clarence_Thomas) Book: “The Democratization of American Christianity” by Nathan O. Hatch (https://amzn.to/3DPBYlA) The Bechdel Test (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bechdel_test) The Bechdel Test Movie List (https://bechdeltest.com) Nadia Boltz Weber (https://nadiabolzweber.com) Article: “The Crisis of Men and Boys” (https://www.nytimes.com/2022/09/29/opinion/crisis-men-masculinity.html)by David Brooks in the New York Times The Feeling Wheel (https://allthefeelz.app/feeling-wheel/) Kimberlé Crenshaw TED Talk (https://youtu.be/akOe5-UsQ2o) Book: “The Second Sex” by Simone de Beauvoir (https://amzn.to/3U40G7y) Book: “The Woman's Hour” by Elaine Weiss (https://amzn.to/3WnUxEz) Book: “The Krunk Feminist Collective” by Brittany Cooper (https://amzn.to/3U9IwRu) Book: “Feminism is For Everybody” by bell hooks (https://amzn.to/3SUKcNt) Book: “The Feminine Mystique” by Betty Friedan (https://amzn.to/3DRz9jL) Special Guest: Alison Buxton.

Nathan and Steve discuss the age-old conundrum of why Christians don't show more of the Fruit of the Spirit than non-Christians. Spoiler-Alert! They remain frustrated. It's dark outside, thus Nathan is tired Steve has been sleeping! Everyone should go to therapy (if possible) Steve talks about his neurological diseases in episode 28 (https://www.followingthefire.com/28) Nathan needs more "crunch" Sleep makes everything better LGBTQ+ Listener update Conversion Therapy (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conversion_therapy) is bad. Documentary: “Pray Away” on Netflix (https://www.netflix.com/watch/81040370) Book Club Episode 45: “Heavy Burdens” with author Bridget Eileen Rivera (https://www.followingthefire.com/45) Article: “The Four Sides” (https://www.lifeonsideb.com/thefoursides)Christian perspectives of LGBTQ+ relationships as “sides” Fruit of the Spirit: Galatians 5:22-23 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Galatians+5%3A22-23&version=NRSVUE) Fishbone Diagram (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ishikawa_diagram) Dunning-Kruger Effect (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning–Kruger_effect)

Nathan and Steve go through the survey "The State of Theology" which was published recently and find that, not only are they both wildly heretical, but that the Ligonier group writes REALLY bad questions. Steve and Nathan are both exhausted because they're privileged Nathan is overly concerned with the Trump Mar-a-Lago case Pep Band is fun Church is weird “Do I Stay Christian” by Brian McLaren The State of Theology Survey (https://thestateoftheology.com) Ligonier Ministries (http://www.ligonier.org) R.C. Sproul (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R._C._Sproul) Reformed Theology (https://www.ligonier.org/learn/series/what-is-reformed-theology) Martin Luther (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Luther) Calvinism (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calvinism) Doctrine of “Original Sin” (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Original_sin) Survey Data Explorer (https://thestateoftheology.com/data-explorer)

The USA Supreme Court keeps throwing us curveballs, the folks in Trumpland are still doing the same-ol', everything's burning and most people just want to watch. How are we supposed to handle this kind of crazy and still, somehow, follow God? It's been a rough few weeks in the news Nathan is nervous about his opinions Nathan, however, has a lot of opinions about opinions Somehow Steve & Nathan have become pro-choice Both-sides-ism is dangerous Steve's not feeling the USA love The world has always thought of America like we now think of Trump People don't make good decisions Empathy requires engagement Russia needs to GET OUT! Is rural America the danger zone? Documentary: "Fantastic Fungi" on Netflix (https://www.netflix.com/watch/81183477) Book: "How to Change Your Mind" by Michael Pollan (https://amzn.to/3IZ6D0I) Documentary: "How to Change Your Mind (https://www.netflix.com/watch/81164524) Steve needs shrooms

Love matters more… than what? How about EVERYTHING? Even being right? Yup. We had the privilege of speaking with Jared Byas (the author of “Love Matters More” and co-host of “The Bible for Normal People”) about his fantastic book. We discuss how to move from a faith focused on knowledge to one focused on love. Book: “Love Matters More” by Jared Byas (https://amzn.to/3OHGntv) Podcast: “The Bible For Normal People” (https://peteenns.com/podcast/) Book: “Genesis For Normal People” by Jared Byas & Pete Enns (https://amzn.to/3nfDaFQ) Book: “Faith After Doubt” by Brian McLaren (https://amzn.to/3yht1yL) Book: “Misreading Scripture Through Western Eyes” (https://amzn.to/3xIdPZS) “The truth shall set you free” - John 8:31-32 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John+8%3A31-32&version=NRSVUE) “I have come to set the captives free” - Luke 4:18-19 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke+4%3A18-19&version=NRSVUE) Burning Man (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burning_Man) Scholar: Jon D. Levenson (https://hds.harvard.edu/people/jon-d-levenson) “I have plans for you…” - Jeremiah 29:11 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Jeremiah+29%3A11&version=NRSVUE) Book: “What Would Jesus Deconstruct?” - John D. Caputo (https://amzn.to/39K7Ls0) Special Guest: Jared Byas.

What is Truth? : Turns out that facts aren't important as the truth Pilate asked Jesus a question that never got answered: "What is truth?" In this episode, Steve & Nathan discuss the kinds of truth, if it's relative, if it's meaningful, and how all of this fits in to our faith. Don't worry -- ALL of your questions will most definitely be answered in this episode. WARNING: This one is pretty heavy on philosophy, so you might not want to listen while you're driving. Hannah got a leopard gecko Kristi hates snakes (not Garden-of-Eden-related) Next episode is our book club reading “Love Matters More” by Jared Byas (https://amzn.to/3xQIntD) “What is truth?” - John 18:28-38 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John+18&version=NRSVUE) Book: “Faith After Doubt” by Brian McLaren (https://amzn.to/3Qi8dOm) Knowledge vs. confidence curve (https://understandinginnovation.blog/2015/07/03/the-dunning-kruger-effect-in-innovation/) Book: “Sacred Earth, Sacred Soul” by John Philip Newell (https://amzn.to/3zHAyrA) TikTok video by user @fatalprosellc (https://www.tiktok.com/@fatalprosellc/video/7104610981715954990?is_from_webapp=1&sender_device=pc&web_id=6954852372733036038) Bhagavad Gita (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bhagavad_Gita) Book: “Do I Stay Christian?” By Brian McLaren (https://amzn.to/3b4AxUb) “The truth shall set you free.” - John 8:32 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John+8%3A32&version=NRSVUE) Tone indicators (https://toneindicators.carrd.co/) “I'm a Mac, I'm a PC” commercials (https://youtu.be/qfv6Ah_MVJU) John Hodgman (https://www.johnhodgman.com/) Book: “The Areas of My Expertise” by John Hodgman (https://amzn.to/3tzJtaE) Film: “Twelve Years A Slave” (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/12_Years_a_Slave_(film)) Nathan needs bees! He also has no honey Get a Daniel Wheat T-shirt! (https://danielwheat.bandcamp.com/merch) Listen to Daniel Wheat's new album, “The In Between” on Spotify (https://open.spotify.com/album/05kC0eee6JHcpfbJezRRUc?si=L3O2rI05QgSjCssAompY8w)

This episode is an introduction to an ongoing series on the Lord's Prayer. This episode will take a very high-level view of the prayer and invites experience over information! Scripture: Matthew 6:9-13 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew%206%3A9-13&version=NIV) Jazz Standards (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jazz_standard) and Improvisation over a simple tune: "Salt Peanuts" (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJrUBEtoNQU) and "Blue Train" (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HT_Zs5FKDZE) Video: The universe is amazing (https://youtu.be/HiN6Ag5-DrU) This mini-series is a chance for listeners to connect and contribute! Please submit your thoughts and ideas HERE (https://www.followingthefire.com/contact). The next mini-series episode will feature the prayer in context, differences between the two prayers, and then a dive into the first line! By the way! Daniel's album featuring our theme song has officially been released! Check it out HERE (https://open.spotify.com/album/05kC0eee6JHcpfbJezRRUc?si=P2Fbi5U8SEqi9w5EVxgklw)!

Cursed?: What to do with the curses in Genesis 3 When Adam and Eve ate the fruit in the Garden of Eden, God laid down several curses. For the serpent, the woman, and the man. But what do we DO with these curses? Are we supposed to perpetuate the ideas behind them, or move away from them? What's this story teaching us, anyway? We also discuss the sad state of gun violence in the USA. We wish we had the answers. Gun Violence in America * Article: “America's gun culture - in seven charts” (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-41488081) * FBI Crime Statistics (https://crime-data-explorer.app.cloud.gov/pages/home) * Book: “When Thoughts and Prayers Are Not Enough” by Taylor Schumann (https://amzn.to/3LZn3pG) * Podcast: The Holy Post (https://www.holypost.com) The Curses of Genesis 3 * Genesis 3 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis+3&version=NRSVUE) * Nathan's permaculture method: Hügelkultur (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hügelkultur) * Celtic Christianity (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celtic_Christianity) * Book: “Sacred Earth Sacred Soul” by John Philip Newell (https://amzn.to/3m01Z7M) * Star Wars character: Darth Plagueis (https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Darth_Plagueis) * 4th-5th c. Monk: Pelagius (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pelagius) * Original sin (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Original_sin) * Gnosticism (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gnosticism) * Book: “The Divine Conspiracy” by Dallas Willard (https://amzn.to/3PQu5jN) * Pyramid Texts (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyramid_Texts) * Book: “Do I Stay Christian?” By Brian McLaren (https://amzn.to/3GFGKSA) * Terry Pratchett Books (https://www.terrypratchettbooks.com) * Show: “The Handmaid's Tale” (https://www.hulu.com/series/the-handmaids-tale-565d8976-9d26-4e63-866c-40f8a137ce5f) * Book: “The Handmaid's Tale” (https://amzn.to/3NJzreK) * Show: “Brooklyn Nine-Nine” (https://www.hulu.com/series/brooklyn-nine-nine-daf48b7a-6cd7-4ef6-b639-a4811ec95232) * Show: “Our Flag Means Death” (https://www.hbomax.com/series/urn:hbo:series:GYf3LzwJV98JifQEAAAAO) * Next book club book: “Love Matters More” by Jared Byas (https://amzn.to/3Q5X979)

We had a fantastic time hanging out with Brian McLaren to talk about his new book, "Do I Stay Christian?" – the follow-up to his book "Faith After Doubt". The book first answers with "No" then "Yes" and then discusses "How" we should live, regardless of the way we answer that question. It's a brave, humbling, and important book. READ IT! Book: “Do I Stay Christian?” by Brian McLaren (https://amzn.to/3LIGNhc) Website: www.brianmclaren.net Book: “Faith After Doubt” by Brian McLaren (https://amzn.to/3MFQPAW) “By their fruits you shall know them…” - Matthew 7:15-20 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew%207%3A15-20&version=NRSVUE) The Reformation (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reformation) Council of Trent (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Council_of_Trent) John Philip Newell (https://www.earthandsoul.org/john-philip-newell) Video: Presentation Steve attended by John Philip Newell (https://youtu.be/sDn7aGbWySo?t=1363) Richard Rohr (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Rohr) Center for Action and Contemplation (https://cac.org) Black-Owned Book Stores in the United States (https://aalbc.com/bookstores/list.php) Special Guest: Brian McLaren.

Generation Z may just be the people who save us all (but only if they want to). Steve & Nathan talk to Steve's kids, Hannah and Noah, to discuss their views of faith and how their parents' deconstruction has changed things for them. Includes a bonus Gen Z slang lesson you won't want to miss! What's in the show is in the show England doesn't exist Nobody lives in New Mexico TikTok: @chrispaulrainbows (https://www.tiktok.com/@chrispaulrainbows) Ladybird Fancypants (https://www.ladybirdfancypants.com) Beat Saber (https://youtu.be/SPfqzYV8Bmc) Minecraft (https://www.minecraft.net/) Massivecraft (https://www.massivecraft.com/minecraft-roleplay-server) Destiny (https://www.bungie.net) Apex Legends (https://www.ea.com/games/apex-legends) Terraria (https://terraria.org) MIT Scratch Visual Programming (https://scratch.mit.edu) Generation Z (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generation_Z) Generation X (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generation_X) Boomers (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baby_boomers) Millenials (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Millennials) September 11 Attacks (https://www.911memorial.org) Challenger Explosion (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_Shuttle_Challenger_disaster) COVID-19 Pandemic (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_pandemic) Wicca (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wicca) Comic: “Someone is wrong on the internet” (https://xkcd.com/386/) Discord (https://discord.com) Parasocial Relationships (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parasocial_interaction) YouTuber - Dream (https://www.youtube.com/user/DreamTraps) Good Mythical Morning (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC4PooiX37Pld1T8J5SYT-SQ) YouTuber - Jack Septic Eye (https://www.youtube.com/c/jacksepticeye) Gen Z Slang (https://www.dictionary.com/e/gen-z-slang/) Special Guests: Hannah Martin and Noah Martin.

During the last five years of his life, best-selling spiritual writer Henri Nouwen became close to a traveling circus trapeze troupe, The Flying Rodleighs. He passed away before he could write the book about the spiritual lessons of his time with them, so his friend, Carolyn Whitney-Brown, picked up the pieces and completed “Flying, Falling, Catching”. In this episode we got to spend time with Carolyn talking about Henri, the book, and lessons we can all learn about the spiritual journey from an unlikely source: trapeze artists. Book: “Flying, Falling, Catching” (https://www.harpercollins.com/products/flying-falling-catching-henri-j-m-nouwencarolyn-whitney-brown?variant=39395363848226) Henry Nouwen (https://henrinouwen.org) Carolyn Whitney-Brown (https://www.writersunion.ca/member/carolyn-whitney-brown) YouTube channel for the book (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC2WhsMh-adhph4YnQFz39YQ) United Church of Canada (https://united-church.ca) Intervarsity Christian Fellowship (https://intervarsity.org) L'arche USA (https://www.larcheusa.org) Video: The Flying Rodleighs performing (https://youtu.be/X6Kw3QFAhVU) Special Guest: Carolyn Whitney-Brown.

Confusing informational trust with relational trust can lead to all kinds of trouble. Steve and Nathan talk about how seeing the cracks and seams in the bible can deal a blow to our faith, or how it can change it for the better. Is there more to the Bible than Biblical Scholarship and data? Is there more to the stars than atoms and molecules? Rocks have been tumbled, results were underwhelming. Steve is TikTok Famous (https://www.tiktok.com/@heystevemartin?lang=en) Nathan would not deal well with fame Welcome @Maklelan (https://www.tiktok.com/@maklelan?lang=en) fans! Nathan doesn't understand Geopolitics Steve thinking about money, recruiters gives Nathan an idea (https://www.indeed.com/jobs?q=Podcast%20Editor&l=anywhere&vjk=cb70f535f4f5de48&advn=4317892059899432) It's not personal, it's business: Looking for ultimate values in faith groups is revealing. Nathan continues contra-certainty crusade IdolatryAn idol is usually a good thing that we make ultimate. We say, "Unless I have that, I am nothing."— Timothy Keller (@timkellernyc) February 16, 2014 Book: The Sin of Certainty by Peter Enns (https://www.amazon.com/Sin-Certainty-Desires-Correct-Beliefs/dp/0062272098/ref=sr_1_1?crid=22UDI8G49SL8V&keywords=the+sin+of+certainty&qid=1650382977&s=books&sprefix=the+sin+of+certainty%2Cstripbooks%2C110&sr=1-1) Trust vs. Certainty Hebrews 11:1 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Hebrews%2011:1-2&version=NIV) Data over Dogma (https://www.followingthefire.com/47) Buddhism (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhism) Discovery of disease spread though water (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1854_Broad_Street_cholera_outbreak) What stars are made of (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star#Chemical_composition) Materialism (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Materialism) Catholic Bible different from Protestant Bible (https://www.christianitytoday.com/history/2008/august/why-are-protestant-and-catholic-bibles-different.html) All scripture is useful for… (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2%20Timothy%203%3A16-17&version=NIV) If I know all things but have not love…. (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+Corinthians+13%3A1-3&version=NIV) Jesus rebukes biblical scholars for getting priorities wrong: Matthew 23:23-24 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+23%3A23-24&version=NRSV) Canonization (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biblical_canon) Common Book of Prayer (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Common_Prayer) Book: Faith After Doubt by Brian McLaren (https://www.amazon.com/Faith-After-Doubt-Beliefs-Stopped/dp/1250262771) Greatest Command: Matthew 3:36-40 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew%2022%3A36-40&version=NIV) Possible geographic errors in Mark? (https://www.reddit.com/r/AcademicBiblical/comments/e5iiew/question_about_current_scholarly_consensus_on/) Genitive vs. Dative (https://daedalus.umkc.edu/FirstGreekBook/JWW_FGB3.html#:~:text=The%20genitive%20expresses%20the%20relationships,with%20what%20something%20is%20done.) Morocco mosque (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ben_Youssef_Mosque) Phil 2:6-11 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Philippians%202%3A6-11&version=NIV) Video: Raiders of the Lost ark (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YcR9k8o4I0w)

Blogger, speaker, and podcaster Kate Boyd joins us to discuss the process of deconstruction, how to approach it, and the importance of not doing it alone. Find all of Kate's info here: KateBoyd.co (https://www.KateBoyd.co) Wesleyan Quadrilateral (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wesleyan_Quadrilateral) Film: "Shadowlands" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shadowlands_(1993_film)) Special Guest: Kate Boyd.

This is a rebroadcast for Transgender Day of Visibility. We got to talk with Natalie Drew – a devout Christian, pacifist, and kind of a theology nerd who also happens to be a trans woman. She shares her story with us of struggling with life before beginning her transition after having a wife and 2 kids, how her marriage weathered the storm, and she gives some great advice to other LGBTQ people in the church, as well as for the rest of the church. I do want to let you know that suicide does come up a few times in this episode. Natalie Drew: Twitter - @natdrew79 (https://twitter.com/natgrace79) Book: “Jesus the Gentle Parent” (https://amzn.to/3xO8rTX) Raw Tools (https://rawtools.org/) “Deadnaming” (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deadnaming) Gender Dysphoria (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_dysphoria) Gender Identity (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_identity) Paul's “thorn in the flesh” 2 Corinthians 12:6-9 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2+Corinthians+12%3A6-9&version=NIV) Naked Pastor cartoons (https://nakedpastor.com/) “The Most Sincere Prayer” (https://nakedpastor.com/blogs/news/dear-god-wtf) Open Theism (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_theism) Greg Boyd (https://reknew.org/) Book:“Crucifixion of the Warrior God” by Greg Boyd (https://amzn.to/3wJoxwx) Merism (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merism) Natalie's Blog (https://nataliegracedrew.wixsite.com/findingnatalie) Hebrews 1:3 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Hebrews%201%3A3&version=NIV) 1 Samuel 8 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Samuel%208&version=NIV) Sacrificial love of Christ - Philippians 2:5-11 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Philippians+2%3A5-11&version=NIV) Heather's Twitter (Natalie's wife): @heatherdrew (https://twitter.com/heatherdrew) Cisgender (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cisgender) Documentary: “Disclosure” (https://www.disclosurethemovie.com) Bridget Eileen Rivera (https://www.meditationsofatravelingnun.com/) Austen Heartke (http://austenhartke.com) Biblical love: 1 Corinthians 13 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Corinthians%2013&version=NIV) Special Guest: Natalie Drew.

Episode 50 will be "Flying, Falling, Catching: An Unlikely Story of Finding Freedom" by Henri Nouwen & Carolyn Whitney-Brown - (buy it here (https://amzn.to/3DrsYRz))

Bible nerds unite! Nathan & Steve got to have a wonderful conversation with TikTok-famous Bible scholar Dan McClellan. Topics include the cognitive science of religion, the problem with univocality, the development of inerrancy, and… does God look like a cow? Dan's TikTok account (https://www.tiktok.com/@maklelan) Dan's dissertation: “The Cognitive Science of Religion and the Conceptualization of Deity in the Hebrew Bible” (https://www.academia.edu/5469848/You_Will_Be_Like_the_Gods_The_Conceptualization_of_Deity_in_the_Hebrew_Bible_in_Cognitive_Perspective?source=swp_share) Identity Politics (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Identity_politics) Data > Dogma Merch (https://data-over-dogma.creator-spring.com) What is dogma? (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dogma) Book: “People's History of the United States” by Howard Zinn (https://amzn.to/3D17zPg) The Documentary Hypothesis (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Documentary_hypothesis) “Univocality” (https://www.oxfordreference.com/view/10.1093/oi/authority.20110803114805782) Marcion (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marcion_of_Sinope) Psalm 137 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Psalm+137&version=NRSV) The Reformation (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reformation) The Enlightenment (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_of_Enlightenment) Logical Positivism (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logical_positivism) Pete Enns (https://peteenns.com) Book: “The Bible Tells Me So” by Pete Enns (https://amzn.to/3L1hfMc) Book: “How the Bible Works” by Pete Enns (https://amzn.to/3N0h3Pj) Book: “The Bible With Sources Revealed” by Richard Friedman (https://amzn.to/36hE9Ad) Earliest written parts of the Bible: Deuteronomy 32 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Deuteronomy+32&version=NRSV) Deuteronomy 33 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Deuteronomy+33&version=NRSV) Judges 5 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Judges+5&version=NRSV) Psalm 68 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Psalm+68&version=NRSV) Exodus 15 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Exodus+15&version=NRSV) Genesis 49 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis+49&version=NRSV) Links to all of Dan's stuff (https://linktr.ee/maklelan) Special Guest: Dan McClellan.

Daniel Wheat has been the official Following the Fire troubadour since day one. He's working on a new album and talks to Nathan and Steve about how the progression of his music and the development of his faith are so closely bound together. Kickstarter for Daniel's album (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/daniel-wheat/the-in-between?ref=discovery&term=Daniel%20wheat) Daniel Wheat on Spotify (https://open.spotify.com/artist/26EjMDBdKGmxBXEwkGWCkd?si=FrCqCJDPTCmc5Viie0MFPw) Special Guest: Daniel Wheat.

Book Club: Heavy Burdens - Bridget Eileen Rivera Author Bridget Eileen Rivera joins us to talk about her new book "Heavy Burdens: Seven Ways LGBTQ Christians Experience Harm in the Church" Buy her book here (https://amzn.to/3v9aROl)! Special Guest: Bridget Eileen Rivera.

Not a White Man: Discussion Group Q&R pt2 In which Nathan & Steve discuss Gen Z lingo and more questions posed in the Following the Fire Facebook discussion group. Topics include: is the church of Christ a cult? Why does God allow us to relive trauma? Can we get rid of institutional racism? Is it "XKCD" or "SMBC"? And more! Intro * Gen Z Slang is impossible to keep up with * Film: The Goonies (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Goonies) * R0 value (https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-02009-w) * Meaning of “meme” (https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/meme) * Video: The Wheat Brothers Live (https://youtu.be/_fRd3LvV3ck) * Video: Nathan killing the high note (https://youtu.be/_fRd3LvV3ck?t=267) * Daniel Wheat's Kickstarter (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/daniel-wheat/the-in-between) * Following the Fire Discussion Group (https://www.facebook.com/groups/487826142679626) Why does God allow us to relive and remember trauma? When will institutional racism be taken seriously in the American Church? * Parable of the Prodigal Son (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke+15%3A11-32&version=NRSV) * Upton Sinclair quote (https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/21810-it-is-difficult-to-get-a-man-to-understand-something) Where is the mother in it all??? * Book: “God: An Anatomy” by Francesca Stavrakopoulou (https://amzn.to/342ZmNq) * Song: “White Man” - Michael Gungor (https://open.spotify.com/track/6Vm4poRxOaBVV3rYdFH8cW?si=b1115056bb3b489d) * Comic: XKCD (https://xkcd.com/) * Comic: SMBC (https://www.smbc-comics.com/comic/god-2) How do we know we're going through “healthy” deconstruction? Why does the church treat doubt like it's such a horrible thing? DON'T FORGET! * Next episode: "Heavy Burdens: Seven ways LGBTQ Christians experience harm in the church" by Bridget Eileen Rivera - (buy it here (https://amzn.to/3v9aROl)) * Daniel Wheat's Kickstarter (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/daniel-wheat/the-in-between)

In which Nathan & Steve respond to (because actual "Answers" are lacking) questions posed in the Following the Fire Facebook discussion group. Topics include: the goal of deconstruction, God's role in it, untangling culture and faith, and more. Intro * Steve's busy in a good way * Nathan can't figure out how to pronounce "Shyamalan" * How to pronounce Shyamalan (https://youtu.be/vv3xyt5P9vw?t=16) * Film: “The Sixth Sense” (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sixth_Sense) * Film: “Signs” (https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0286106/) * Film: “Unbreakable” (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unbreakable_(film)) * Film: “The Village” (https://www.amazon.com/gp/video/detail/B003QS6264/ref=atv_dp_share_cu_r) * TV Show: “Servant” (https://tv.apple.com/us/episode/reborn/umc.cmc.6ooshiy96qegjvtnzpmhqwyq6?showId=umc.cmc.4y25wuby7pck9o6vaubbbk7gb) * Documentary: “The Pixar Story” (https://www.disneyplus.com/movies/the-pixar-story/5aLi1N5xRzf1) * The Pixar Formula (http://thescientistvideographer.com/wordpress/the-pixar-storytelling-formula/) * Bible story: Naaman (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naaman) * Film: “Bram Stoker's Dracula” (https://www.netflix.com/title/328942) Q & R pt 1a * Following the Fire Discussion Group (https://www.facebook.com/groups/487826142679626) * “…work out your salvation with fear and trembling” - Philippians 2:12 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Philippians+2%3A12&version=NRSV) * Fishbone Diagram (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ishikawa_diagram) * Cornelius (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cornelius_the_Centurion) Q & R pt 1b * Martin Luther (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Luther) * Protestant Reformation (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reformation) * 95 Theses (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ninety-five_Theses) * Barton W. Stone (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barton_W._Stone) * Alexander Campbell (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Campbell_(minister)) * Restoration Movement (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Restoration_Movement) * Weasel Words (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weasel_word) * Joseph Smith (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Smith) Closing * Daniel Wheat on Spotify (https://open.spotify.com/artist/26EjMDBdKGmxBXEwkGWCkd?si=3gsfbb8IRcaDqUVrGE6N1w) - “This World Is Not My Home” coming out Feb 25, 2022! * For the Journey playlist on Spotify (https://open.spotify.com/playlist/2LYQNQMgGyvWlayDHt4ini?si=7a8ae037cef14999) * Next book club: "Heavy Burdens: Seven ways LGBTQ Christians experience harm in the church" by Bridget Eileen Rivera - (buy it here (https://amzn.to/3v9aROl))

J. Crum: the man, his music, his faith, and his journey J. Crum is a legend. His song "Clarity" struck a nerve last year with so many people going through deconstruction, and his path has taken him to some unexpected places. We were honored to get to spend time talking with J. Crum about his music, his faith, how they intersect, and where he's going from here. Song: “Press” by J. Crum (https://open.spotify.com/track/4IbeLxSiXnD79Ozl6FvGxu?si=ee4cd2dd96564094) www.jcrummusic.com J. Crum on TikTok (https://vm.tiktok.com/ZMJ57y5Qe/) Song: “Clarity” by J. Crum (https://open.spotify.com/track/6zkHF5C3fgTUBbNno4n6ZP?si=d3549195caf54b63) Special Guest: J. Crum.

Nathan and Steve catch up after a month off and they discuss the theme of deconstruction in tons of shows and movies on Disney+. It's absolutely everywhere! Intro * Nathan's full of ideas * Nathan's friend and coworker passed away from COVID * Steve's a deacon already? * What's a deacon? (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deacon) * “Timey wimey” (https://youtu.be/q2nNzNo_Xps) * Groundhog Day (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Groundhog_Day) * Film: “Groundhog Day” (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Groundhog_Day_(film)) * Book: “The Road” by Cormac McCarthy (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Road) * Film: “The Road” (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Road_(2009_film)) * Book Club Book for Episode 45: “Heavy Burdens” by Bridget Eileen Rivera (https://amzn.to/3gJCO6R) * Following the Fire Facebook Group (https://www.facebook.com/groups/487826142679626/) Deconstruction Everywhere * Google Trends (https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?q=deconstruction&geo=US) * Disney+ (https://www.disneyplus.com) * Enneagram 5 (https://www.crystalknows.com/enneagram/type-5) * Show: “The Mandalorian” (https://www.disneyplus.com/series/the-mandalorian/3jLIGMDYINqD) * Documentary: “The Rescue” (https://www.disneyplus.com/movies/the-rescue/6u1VV7RFRiRz) * Documentary: “Free Solo” (https://www.disneyplus.com/movies/free-solo/3ibzvuU6iPlE) * Spelunking (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caving) * Film: “Encanto” (https://www.disneyplus.com/movies/encanto/33q7DY1rtHQH) * Film: “Toy Story” (https://www.disneyplus.com/movies/toy-story/1Ye1nzUgtF7d) * Film: “Monsters, Inc.” (https://www.disneyplus.com/movies/monsters-inc/5vQuMGjgTZz5) * Show: “The Good Place” (https://www.netflix.com/search?q=“The%20Good%20Place”s&jbv=80113701) * Show: “Tiny World” (https://tv.apple.com/us/show/tiny-world/umc.cmc.1sid6bqjoez4sxonuulq12af7)

Rebroadcasting for Martin Luther King, Jr. Day. We're joined by Nicole Magliore to discuss the book "Why We Can't Wait" by Martin Luther King, Jr. – Not only do we discuss the book, but what white Christians can do to make a difference in a country that is still so stuck in white supremacy and systemic racism. This, my friends, is a fantastic episode. Intro * Guest: Nicole Magloire * Her blog: Give the Grave Only Bones (https://nicolemagloire.com) * Her Facebook page (https://www.facebook.com/NicoleRMagloire) * Nathan is an anti-pizza communist Book Discussion * “Why We Can't Wait” (https://amzn.to/3ia6c8g) by Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. * Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maslow's_hierarchy_of_needs) * The Good Samaritan (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke%2010%3A25-37&version=NIV) * The 10 Commandments of Non-violence (https://www.buffaloquakers.org/blog/2018/3/27/martin-luther-kings-ten-commandments-for-non-violence) * The of practice "redlining" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redlining) * Jim Crow Laws (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Crow_laws) * Homestead Acts (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homestead_Acts) “The Color of Law: A Forgotten History of How Our Government Segregated America” (https://amzn.to/3yYbwlo) by Richard Rothstein “Stand Your Ground: Black Bodies and the Justice of God” (https://amzn.to/3wOkQ9h) by Kelly Brown Douglas James Baldwin (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Baldwin) “I Am Not Your Negro” (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_Am_Not_Your_Negro) Malcolm X (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malcolm_X) Tulsa Race Massacre (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulsa_race_massacre) “…punishing the children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation” Exodus 20:4-6 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=ex+20%3A4-6&version=NIV) “…he punishes the children and their children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation.” Exodus 34:6-7 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Exodus+34%3A6-7&version=NIV) Create on-ramps for people - DeRay Mckesson (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DeRay_Mckesson) “What can I do where I am with what I have?” Ask questions Create onramps Read read read Use that knowledge to impact the world Don't think you're ever done learning Join our Patreon (http://patreon.com/followingthefire) - we'd love your support and we have some fantastic patron perks!

Happy New Year! A recap of our first year recording Following the Fire (and a few book suggestions from Nathan) Intro * Takin' a break until the new year (for realz) * Facebook group is the BEST! (https://www.facebook.com/groups/487826142679626/) * Don't forget the Patreon! (https://www.patreon.com/followingthefire) * Contact us at followingthefirepodcast@gmail.com * Leave a review! (https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/following-the-fire/id1555148658) Following the Fire - Origin Story No idea what we're doing Steve carries this baby Go Read it, Every One! * Book: "Jesus and the Disinherited" by Howard Thurman (https://amzn.to/3EwzWUp) * Book: "Amoralman" by Derek Delgaudio (https://amzn.to/3qxTumh) * Book: "Why We Can't Wait" by Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. (https://amzn.to/3n09pJt) * Book: "A Church Called TOV" by Laura Barringer and Scot McKnight (https://amzn.to/3FN65bC) Asterisk * Book: "Affirming" by Sally Gary (https://amzn.to/3HgCxDN) * Book: "Jesus and John Wayne" - Kristin Kobes Du Mez (https://amzn.to/3Hm16Pw) * Book: "The Making of Biblical Womanhood" by Beth Allison Barr (https://amzn.to/3H9Bplo) * Book: "Faith After Doubt" by Brian McLaren (https://amzn.to/3mFaJkG) * Book: "Reading While Black" by Esau McCaulley (https://amzn.to/3mAxXIr) * Book: "Torn" by Justin Lee (https://amzn.to/3FAO6VP) * Book: "What if Jesus Was Serious?" by Skye Jethani (https://amzn.to/3z9AZc2) Just for Me * Book: "Born a Crime" by Trevor Noah (https://amzn.to/3quCv4y) * Book: "Paul Among the People" by Sarah Ruden (https://amzn.to/3HjLBrq) * Book: "Love Wins" by Rob Bell (https://amzn.to/3px3XPQ) * Book: "Erasing Hell" by Francis Chan and Preston Sprinkle (https://amzn.to/3JoJaWx) * Book: "Pax" by Sara Pennypacker (https://amzn.to/32K3UHa) All the Scriptures (https://www.biblegateway.com/) See you next year!

Book Club: Faith After Doubt - by Brian McLaren Intro * Takin' a break until the new year * Facebook group is the BEST! (https://www.facebook.com/groups/487826142679626/) * Don't forget the Patreon! (https://www.patreon.com/followingthefire) * Contact us at followingthefirepodcast@gmail.com * Kristi's our guest! * Vacation Bible School (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vacation_Bible_school) * Obeying your parents is, like, a big deal Book discussion * Book: [Faith After Doubt]by Brian Mclaren](https://amzn.to/39lxbIw) * Episode 16 (https://www.followingthefire.com/16) with the “What type of Christian are you?” quiz * “Emerging Church” movement * About Brian McLaren (https://brianmclaren.net) * Book: “With” by Skye Jethani (https://amzn.to/3lHD484) * Video: Full interview with Brian McLaren (https://youtu.be/1gKQf7wnj8c?t=2265) * Philosopher: Alan Watts (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Watts) * Buddhism (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhism) * Turtle Island (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turtle_Island_(Native_American_folklore)) * Nirvana (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nirvana_(Buddhism)) * Jonathan Haidt (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonathan_Haidt) * Moral Foundations Theory (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moral_foundations_theory) * Nihilism (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nihilism) * Film: “Joe vs. The Volcano” (https://youtu.be/yNYFtQIMB2Q) * Book: “Crucial Conversations” (https://amzn.to/3sjQcpx) * “Those who love me will keep my commands” - John 14:15 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John+14%3A15&version=NRSV) * “Love God, Love your neighbors” - Mark 12:28—31 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=mark+12%3A28-31&version=NRSV) * Dark night of the soul (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_Night_of_the_Soul) * Plymouth United Church of Christ beliefs statement (https://www.plymouthucc.org/blog/on-believing) * United Churches of Christ (https://www.ucc.org) * Author: Brené Brown (https://brenebrown.com) * Book: “Do I Stay Christian?” By Brian Mclaren (https://amzn.to/3FbNaHf)

Spiritual Nomads: When deconstruction leads to wandering, where do we find comfort and safety? Rethinking your faith often leads to leaving your faith community to look for something else. Something more. Something real. And while that move was probably for the best, there's still a loss of the comfort that the old group gave you, and a loss of certainty that came with it. Either way, it doesn't make wandering the spiritual wilderness any easier. So, among the questions we won't properly answer today: Should we try to replace the comfort we lost? Should we go back to the certainty group we left? And, how can gratitude help us find something more ultimate than certainty? Join the Following the Fire Discussion Group on Facebook! (https://www.facebook.com/groups/487826142679626/) Intro * Steve is not cold enough yet * Nathan wants to breathe ice * Get your boosters! * Lice is the worst * You're yawning right now * Rate our podcast on Apple! (https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/following-the-fire/id1555148658) Keeping it Real * Article: “The case against sermon-centric Sundays” by Skye Jethani (https://www.premierchristianity.com/home/the-case-against-sermon-centric-sundays/3530.article) * Naked Pastor - Church Wheel Cartoon (https://nakedpastor.com/products/church-wheel-cartoon) * UX Personas (https://xd.adobe.com/ideas/process/user-research/putting-personas-to-work-in-ux-design/) Deconstruction and Discomfort * Film: “Joe vs. the Volcano” (https://youtu.be/yNYFtQIMB2Q) * Agreeableness (https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/basics/agreeableness) * Book: “Faith After Doubt” (https://amzn.to/39lxbIw) Finding Comfort * Film: “Fantastic Mr. Fox” (https://www.disneyplus.com/video/bb248924-47b2-420b-bb62-a665c3a6a6dc) * Book: “Ocean at the End of the Lane” by Neil Gaiman (https://amzn.to/3ESsR1F) * Audible version of that book (https://amzn.to/3s7aKRQ) * Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maslow%27s_hierarchy_of_needs) * Playlist: “For the Journey” (https://open.spotify.com/playlist/2LYQNQMgGyvWlayDHt4ini?si=7f81ca91b7c54d47) * Band: “Weezer” (https://open.spotify.com/artist/3jOstUTkEu2JkjvRdBA5Gu?si=oNCn31hFQBWBDXbbV3PGqg) * Song: “Undone - The Sweater Song” (https://open.spotify.com/track/5WhtlIoxoZrMmuaWWEQhwV?si=f9cd639c27344b3d) * Following the Fire Discussion Group on Facebook! (https://www.facebook.com/groups/487826142679626/)

Embracing Discomfort: How cognitive biases contribute to church problems and deconstruction Intro * Impact matrix (https://asq.org/quality-resources/impact-effort-matrix) * Nathan doesn't have bone spurs * “Pants” vs “Trousters” (https://pediaa.com/difference-between-trousers-and-pants/) * churchofchristsingles.com (https://www.churchofchristsingles.com) * Proverbs 31 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Proverbs+31&version=NRSV) * Florida College (https://www.floridacollege.edu) * Mead (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mead) * “How Beer Saved the World” (https://www.amazon.com/Beer-Saved-World-Discovery-Communications/dp/B007RIO5PE) Pattern Matching Brains * Jordan Klepper (https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Jordan+Klepper) * Jay Leno JayWalking (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCJpg_5-YLQeWPj4yQrqW3eQ/videos) * Cognitive biases (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cognitive_biases) * Russian speakers see more blue than English speakers (https://www.pnas.org/content/104/19/7780) * Himba Tribe can see more green than you (https://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=17970) Biases & Church pt 1 * Availability Heuristic (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Availability_heuristic) * Cognitive dissonance (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_dissonance) * Confirmation Bias (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias) * “Foundation” on AppleTV+ (https://tv.apple.com/us/show/foundation/umc.cmc.5983fipzqbicvrve6jdfep4x3?ign-itscg=MC_20000) * Chainsawsuit.com comic (https://chainsawsuit.krisstraub.com/20140916.shtml) * Podcast: “The Bible for Normal People” (https://peteenns.com/podcast/) * Book: “The Five Gospels” (https://amzn.to/3IlqZk0) * The Jesus Seminar (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus_Seminar) * Gospel of Thomas (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gospel_of_Thomas) * Book: “With” by Skye Jethani (https://www.followingthefire.com/10) * Preston Sprinkle (https://www.prestonsprinkle.com) * Shared Information Bias (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shared_information_bias) * Groupthink (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Groupthink) * Illusory Truth Effect (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illusory_truth_effect) * Dunning-Kruger Effect (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning–Kruger_effect) Biases & Church pt 2 * Confidence Bias (https://www.strategy-business.com/article/Why-Our-Brains-Fall-for-False-Expertise-and-How-to-Stop-It) * Con Artist (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confidence_trick) * Podcast: “The Rise and Fall of Mars Hill” (https://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/podcasts/rise-and-fall-of-mars-hill/) * Conformity Bias (https://ethicsunwrapped.utexas.edu/glossary/conformity-bias) * Child loss awareness license plates (https://www.rowantreefoundation.org/2020/01/child-loss-awareness-license-plate-colorado/) * Appeal to History fallacy (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_tradition) For deconstructors and church leaders * Sunk Cost Fallacy (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunk_cost) * Loss Aversion (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loss_aversion) * Survivorship bias (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Survivorship_bias) * Dan's post mentioning recency bias (https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=10100809985356334&set=a.509203217194) * Following the Fire Discussion Group (https://www.facebook.com/groups/487826142679626/?ref=pages_profile_groups_tab&source_id=358668695236040)

Hidden Gems: How deconstruction can help us find deeper meaning For most churches these days, the Old Testament is a collection of exciting and shocking stories for kids' Bible class. When we're older, we assume we've learned what the stories have to teach us and we hardly ever revisit them from an adult perspective. An unexpected upside of deconstruction can be that, when we DO re-think these OT stories, there are layers upon layers of meaning. Intro * Steve (somehow) falls asleep in the MRI (https://www.mayoclinic.org/tests-procedures/mri/about/pac-20384768) * Pandora (https://www.pandora.com) * Iron & Wine (http://ironandwine.com) * Parkinson's disease (https://www.michaeljfox.org/parkinsons-101) * United Church of Christ (https://www.ucc.org) * Plymouth Congregational church (https://www.plymouthucc.org/) * Nathan's renovating in the dark Story of Uzzah * Uzzah (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uzzah) - 2 Samuel 6:3–8 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2+Samuel+6%3A3-8&version=NRSV) Why Uzzah? * Responsibilities of Levi's sons - Numbers 3 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Numbers%203&version=NIV) * “…curtain of the temple was torn in two…” - Matthew 27:50-51 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+27%3A50-51&version=NRSV) * Hebrews 9 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Hebrews+9&version=NRSV) * “Approach God with confidence” - Hebrews 4:16 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Hebrews+4%3A16&version=NRSV) * “if the ministry that brought death…ministry of the spirit bring life” - 2 Corinthians 3 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2%20Corinthians+3&version=NIV) Why tear things down? * Cardboard building blocks (https://amzn.to/3kFDgFM) * Nathan's house has secret, magical rooms * Jewish Mysticism (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_mysticism) * Nadab & Abihu offering strange fire - Leviticus 10 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Leviticus%2010&version=NIV) * Achan's story - Joshua 7 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Joshua+7&version=NRSV) * Noah's story - Genesis 6-9 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis+6-9&version=NRSV) * Lot's story - Genesis 19 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis+19&version=NRSV) * Podcast: the Bible for Normal People (https://peteenns.com) * Book: “How the Bible Actually Works” by Peter Enns (https://amzn.to/3Fr8VCW) * Book: “Faith After Doubt” by Brian McLaren (https://amzn.to/3nnzq60) * “My yoke is easy and my burden is light” - Matthew 11:28-30 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+11%3A28-30&version=NRSV)

Breaking the Belief Box: How the protective walls we've built can hurt more than help Nathan's face is naked Nathan's family is disagreeable Nathan plans to wear high-waisted sweatpants when he's old Agreeableness (https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/basics/agreeableness) Podcast: “Revisionist History” re: Agreeableness (https://www.pushkin.fm/episode/malcolm-gladwells-12-rules-for-life/) German bluntness (https://www.german-way.com/how-to-tell-when-germans-are-really-being-rude-versus-just-being-german/) Article: “The Devil's in the Details of Deconstruction” (https://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2021/november/exvangelical-warren-guide-to-deconstruction-church.html) Book: “The Liturgy of the Ordinary” by Tish Harrison Warren (https://amzn.to/3mSTjkX) Book: “Heavy Burdens” by Bridgette Eileen Rivera (https://amzn.to/3kaDVif) Podcast: “The Bible for Normal People” (https://peteenns.com/podcast/) Episode 34: Who Wrote It?: Digging into false claims of authorship in the Bible with Trevor Thompson (https://www.followingthefire.com/34) “Your attitude should be the same as that of Christ Jesus” - Philippians 2:5-11 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Philippians+2%3A5-11&version=NRSV) “What makes you pure is not what goes in to you, it's what comes out” - Matthew 15:10-20 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+15%3A10-20&version=NRSV) “Be in the world but not of the world” - John 17:14-16 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John+17%3A14-16&version=NRSV) “Don't conform to the pattern of the world” - Romans 12:2 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=romans+12%3A2&version=NRSV) “You are the salt of the earth” - Matthew 5:13-16 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+5%3A13-16&version=NRSV) Amish Rumspringa (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rumspringa) Film: “The Village” (https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0368447/) “Do not taste, do not touch, do not handle” - Colossians 2:21-23 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Colossians+2%3A21-23&version=NRSV) “Do not be afraid” Author: Skye Jethani (https://skyejethani.com/about/) “Go with them more than one mile” - Matthew 5:41 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+5%3A41&version=NRSV) Uzzah (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uzzah) was struck dead for touching the ark “I have not come to destroy the law” - Matthew 5:17 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+5%3A17&version=NRSV) The Beatitudes (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+5%3A1-12&version=NRSV) “Be salt and light” - Matthew 5:13-16 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+5%3A13-16&version=NRSV) “Love your enemies” - Matthew 5:44 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+5%3A44&version=NRSV) “I will spit you out of my mouth” - Revelation 3:16 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Rev+3%3A16&version=NRSV) “Religion that is pure and undefiled” - James 1:27-2:2 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=%2A+James+1%3A27-2%3A2&version=NRSV) Film: Attack of the Killer Tomatoes (https://www.amazon.com/Attack-Killer-Tomatoes-Cindy-Charles/dp/B00YORDKP2)

Sermons We Hear: What are American Christians hearing from the pulpit? We discuss a recent study about the content, length, and focus of sermons preached in American churches these days. Which churches talk about what? What does that say about them? What can we learn from the various types of sermon? Book: Faith After Doubt by Brian McLaren (https://amzn.to/39lxbIw) Article: Mask mandates work (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/search/research-news/12041/) Biden's executive order (https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/presidential-actions/2021/09/09/executive-order-on-ensuring-adequate-covid-safety-protocols-for-federal-contractors/) Article: Facebook algorithm promotes anger (https://www.niemanlab.org/2021/10/more-internal-documents-show-how-facebooks-algorithm-prioritized-anger-and-posts-that-triggered-it/) Article: What Christians Hear at Church (https://www.newyorker.com/news/on-religion/what-american-christians-hear-at-church) Pew Research Center study about sermons (https://www.pewforum.org/2019/12/16/the-digital-pulpit-a-nationwide-analysis-of-online-sermons/) Skye Jethani (https://skyejethani.com) Article: The Wasting of The Evangelical Mind (https://www.newyorker.com/news/daily-comment/the-wasting-of-the-evangelical-mind) United Church of Christ (https://www.ucc.org) Film: “American Tale” (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/An_American_Tail) Song: “There Are No Cats in America” (https://youtu.be/gQMtp2WxEA4) St. Francis (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francis_of_Assisi) Liturgical Calendar (https://www.episcopalchurch.org/lectionary/) Anglican Book of Common Prayer (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Common_Prayer) “I have come to preach good things to the poor” Luke 4:18 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke+4%3A18&version=NRSV)

Who Wrote It?: Digging into false claims of authorship in the Bible with Trevor Thompson New Testament scholar Trevor Thompson joins us to discuss pseudepigraphic texts in the Bible. We talk about what they are, how they're determined, and we talk a lot about what that means for our faith in scripture and in God. Trevor Thompson's Academia.org page (https://chicago.academia.edu/TrevorThompson) Willam B. Eerdman's Publishing (https://www.eerdmans.com) Oklahoma Christian University (https://www.oc.edu) Harding University (https://www.harding.edu) University of Chicago (https://divinity.uchicago.edu) Pseudepigrapha (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pseudepigrapha) Trevor's Twitter (https://twitter.com/pseudepigraphos) Galen (ancient physician) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galen) Commodus (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commodus) Book: “On My Own Books” by Galen (https://amzn.to/3jxoUGG) Thomas Jefferson's Bible (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jefferson_Bible) Codex Sinaiticus (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Codex_Sinaiticus) P46 (collection of Paul's letters) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papyrus_46) “…as though from us” 2 Thessalonians 2:2 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2+Thessalonians+2%3A2&version=NRSV) 3rd Corinthians (https://www.interfaith.org/christianity/apocrypha-iii-corinthians/) Correspondence of Paul & Seneca (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Correspondence_of_Paul_and_Seneca) Correspondence of Jesus & King Abgar (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abgar_Legend) Eusebius (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eusebius) New Testament Apocrypha (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Testament_apocrypha) Hippocrates (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hippocrates) 2 Peter authenticity (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Epistle_of_Peter#Canonical_acceptance) Shibboleth (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shibboleth) Book of Revelation (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Revelation#Canonical_history) Dionysius of Alexandria (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_Dionysius_of_Alexandria) Gospel of John (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gospel_of_John) Society of Biblical Literature (https://www.sbl-site.org) Pauline Authorship (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Authorship_of_the_Pauline_epistles) Origen (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origen) Mark from the 1st century forgery (https://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2019/june-web-only/first-century-mark-pattengale-inside-saga.html) Gospel of Jesus' wife forgery (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gospel_of_Jesus%27_Wife) TNIV Bible translation (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Today%27s_New_International_Version) Deutero-Pauline meaning (https://www.encyclopedia.com/religion/encyclopedias-almanacs-transcripts-and-maps/deutero-pauline-literature) Author: Bart Ehrman (https://ehrmanblog.org) Article: “Why so many Americans think they have Native American blood” (https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2015/10/cherokee-blood-why-do-so-many-americans-believe-they-have-cherokee-ancestry.html) New Testament Apocrypha and Pseudepigrapha books (https://amzn.to/3Cez3iU) Book: “The Bible: An Introduction” Jerry Sumney (https://amzn.to/3BamuUs) Special Guest: Trevor Thompson.

Yay – Nathan is back! In this episode we follow up with some explanation behind the claims Steve made in the previous episode about how the Bible is not as “inerrant” as we think, although we just scratch the surface. Unfortunately, Steve breaks the rule of only one heresy per episode. Nathan's wife is home! She completed the Pacific Coast Trail! (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pacific_Crest_Trail) Her Instagram (https://www.instagram.com/hcat_23/) Book club coming up - Faith After Doubt by Brian McLaren (https://amzn.to/39lxbIw) Steve's TikTok- @heystevemartin (https://www.tiktok.com/@heystevemartin) James Dobson (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Dobson) Book: Jesus and John Wayne by Kristen Kobes Du Mez (https://amzn.to/3guco9Y) Podcast: The Rise and Fall of Mars Hill (https://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/podcasts/rise-and-fall-of-mars-hill/) Episode 32: Dissonance (https://www.followingthefire.com/32) Biblical Inerrancy (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biblical_inerrancy) Some sources on Steve's crazy claims: (There are many more than these, but these are all a good start/summary of the topic. Also, there are obviously many opinions on these things, so please search out and read multiple sides of the arguments) “1 & 2 Timothy and Titus not written by Paul” - link (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Authorship_of_the_Pauline_epistles#Pastoral_epistles) “The God of the Israelites was initially named “El” and it became “Jahweh” later in history” - link (https://www.worldhistory.org/Yahweh/) “The Bible never tells us that homosexual relationships are wrong” - start with this book (https://amzn.to/3Fx1r1N) “The book of Revelation almost didn't make it into the Bible at all” - link (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Revelation#Canonical_history) “Job was not a real person” - Book (https://amzn.to/2YBplZw) “Isaiah was written by multiple authors in different eras” - link (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Isaiah#Composition) “The Bible is so ancient in some places that we have no idea how to translate it” - link (http://nephicode.blogspot.com/2010/05/problems-in-translating-ancient-hebrew.html) “It's doubtful that Abraham was a real person” - link (https://www.myjewishlearning.com/article/abraham/) “Moses didn't write the Pentateuch” - link (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mosaic_authorship) “John was not written by John” - link (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Authorship_of_the_Johannine_works) Textual Criticism (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Textual_criticism) Chiasmus (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chiasmus) Pseudepigrapha (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pseudepigrapha) Parable of the Good Samaritan - Luke 10:25-37 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke+10%3A25-37&version=NRSV) Parable of the Prodigal Son - Luke 15:11-32 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke%2015%3A11-32&version=NRSV) Parable of Lazarus - Luke 16:19-31 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke+16%3A19-31&version=NRSV) Henotheism (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henotheism) Canaanite god “El” (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/El_(deity)) JHWH (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yahweh) Deuteronomy 32:8-9 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=%2A+Deuteronomy+32%3A8-9&version=NRSV) “The truth shall set you free” - John 8:31-32 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John+8%3A31-32&version=NRSV)

Steve goes solo this week for his hot take on how the American Evangelical / Fundamentalist belief in biblical inerrancy (a relatively new concept, actually) has led to the era of Trump and conspiracy theories ruling the church Biblical Inerrancy (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biblical_inerrancy) The Reformation (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reformation) The Age of Enlightenment (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_of_Enlightenment) Brad Risley's tweet (https://twitter.com/brad_risley/status/1440784369073852426?s=20) Insular Cortex (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insular_cortex) Some sources on Steve's crazy claims: (There are many more than these, but these are all a good start/summary of the topic. Also, there are obviously many opinions on these things, so please search out and read multiple sides of the arguments) “1 & 2 Timothy and Titus not written by Paul” - link (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Authorship_of_the_Pauline_epistles#Pastoral_epistles) “The God of the Israelites was initially named “El” and it became “Jahweh” later in history” - link (https://www.worldhistory.org/Yahweh/) “The Bible never tells us that homosexual relationships are wrong” - start with this book (https://amzn.to/3Fx1r1N) “The book of Revelation almost didn't make it into the Bible at all” - link (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Revelation#Canonical_history) “Job was not a real person” - Book (https://amzn.to/2YBplZw) “Isaiah was written by multiple authors in different eras” - link (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Isaiah#Composition) “The Bible is so ancient in some places that we have no idea how to translate it” - link (http://nephicode.blogspot.com/2010/05/problems-in-translating-ancient-hebrew.html) “It's doubtful that Abraham was a real person” - link (https://www.myjewishlearning.com/article/abraham/) “Moses didn't write the Pentateuch” - link (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mosaic_authorship) “John was not written by John” - link (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Authorship_of_the_Johannine_works)

We're taking the week off, but we wanted to announce our next book for the book club: "Faith After Doubt" by Brian McLaren You can buy it here: https://amzn.to/39UHbZj Music on this episode by Daniel Wheat. Check him out on Spotify! (https://open.spotify.com/artist/26EjMDBdKGmxBXEwkGWCkd?si=4hic1joDTrqNuxkXcusG2w&dl_branch=1)

Doppelgänger: The faith journey of ANOTHER Steve Martin Steve couldn't believe it when he came across ANOTHER guy named Steven D. Martin who is ALSO a podcaster, a pastor, is passionate about social justice, and the similarities keep going. We just had to have him on the show to tell his faith story. It starts in small town Tennessee, goes through his time as a pastor, how he ended up at the Charlottesville race protests, and now running an institute for training churches to deal with our new reality. Special Guest: Steven D. Martin The Greatest Command - Matthew 22:36-40 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew%2022%3A36-40&version=NIV) United Methodist Church (https://www.umc.org/) Apostles' Creed (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostles%27_Creed) Nicene Creed (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicene_Creed) “Unite the Right” rally - Charlottesville, VA in 2017 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unite_the_Right_rally) Book of Jonah (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Jonah%201&version=NIV) Heather Heyer (https://www.heatherheyerfoundation.com) - killed at the rally Lisa Sharon Harper (https://lisasharonharper.com) Lakelands Institute (https://www.lakelandsinstitute.com) Podcast: Mainline (https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/mainline/id1529142030) Special Guest: Steven D. Martin.

Book Club: “The Making of Biblical Womanhood” by Beth Allison Barr Oklahoma Christian University (https://www.oc.edu) Reformed Theology (https://www.gotquestions.org/reformed-theology.html) Calvinism (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calvinism) Presbyterianism (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presbyterianism) Book: “The Second Sex” by Simone De Beauvoir (https://amzn.to/3k8wRmu) Book: “Feminine Mystique” by Betty Frieden (https://amzn.to/3AoYAVC) Author: bell hooks (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bell_hooks) PCUSA (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presbyterian_Church_(USA)) - Presbyterian Church of The USA PCA (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presbyterian_Church_in_America) - Presbyterian Church in America Book: “Co-Laborers and Co-Heirs” by Alison Buxton and others (https://amzn.to/3lslXrc) Book: “The Making of Biblical Womanhood” by Beth Allison Barr (https://amzn.to/3CeSO9E) TV Show: “How It's Made” (https://www.sciencechannel.com/show/how-its-made-science) Video: Sesame Street - how saxophones are made (https://youtu.be/TDlvmvpMaZ0) Complementarianism (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Complementarianism) Patriarchy (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patriarchy) Egalitarianism (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_egalitarianism) Video: “Man Cold” (https://youtu.be/VbmbMSrsZVQ) Book: “Shameless” by Nadia Bolz-Weber (https://amzn.to/3C4pwdY) ESV translation of the Bible (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_Standard_Version) KJV translation (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_James_Version) NIV translation (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_International_Version) Junia Project (https://juniaproject.com/) Phoebe (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoebe_(biblical_figure)) Deacon (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deacon#Origin_and_development) Transliteration (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transliteration) 1 Corinthians 14 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Corinthians%2014&version=NIV) Author: Kate Bowler (https://katebowler.com/) Epic of Gilgamesh (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epic_of_Gilgamesh) Book: “The Last Battle” by CS Lewis (https://amzn.to/3AcYErH) Article: “Church of Christ Practice Harms Girls Long-Term, Suggests 2018 Study” (https://authentictheology.com/2018/11/28/church-of-christ-practice-harms-girls-long-term-suggests-2018-study/) “Jesus…did not consider equality with God something to be grasped…” - Philippians 2:5-11 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Philippians%202%3A5-11&version=NIV) “There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.” - Galatians 3:27-29 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Galatians%203:27-29&version=NIV) Book: “Feminism is for Everybody” bell hooks (https://amzn.to/3nxhTIO) Romans 16 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans%2016&version=NIV) Video: “Stop It” - Bob Newhart (https://youtu.be/Ow0lr63y4Mw) Author: Rachel Held Evans (https://rachelheldevans.com) Feminism (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feminism) Video: “Constitutional Peasant” by Monty Python (https://youtu.be/t2c-X8HiBng) Special Guest: Alison Buxton.

(show notes coming soon)...

Enneagram trainer and life coach Krista Cannon joins us today to talk all things enneagram. She clears up a lot for us, like: What it is, what it isn't, how to use it, and how not to. We also talk about how understanding who YOU are can really help you in your faith journey. Enneagram of Personality (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enneagram_of_Personality) Enneagram symbol (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enneagram_of_Personality#/media/File:Enneagram.svg) Book: “The Road Back to You” (https://amzn.to/3BH3JJ9) Book: “The Path Between Us” (https://amzn.to/38Ju2Su) Automatic writings (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automatic_writing) Myers-Briggs Type Indicatoryers-Briggs Type Indicator (https://www.myersbriggs.org/my-mbti-personality-type/mbti-basics/) Podcast: Science Diction (https://www.wnycstudios.org/podcasts/science-diction/articles/the-rise-of-the-myers-briggs-chapter-1-katharine) “I do not understand what I do…” - Romans 7:15-20 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans%207%3A15-20&version=NIV) Book: “With” by Skye Jethani (https://amzn.to/3n5aIaE) The Daily Examen practice (https://sites.duke.edu/theconnection/2014/08/13/the-daily-examen/) Book: “Man's Search for Meaning” by Viktor Frankl (https://amzn.to/3zNHell) Krista's Enneagram Typing Guide (https://www.coachwithkrista.com/typingguide) RHETI Enneagram Typing Test (https://www.enneagraminstitute.com/rheti) Podcast: Sleeping at Last (https://fanlink.to/sleepingatlastpodcast) Book: “The Sacred Enneagram” by Chris Heuertz (https://amzn.to/3h7Rttb) Book: “The Enneagram of Belonging” by Chris Heuertz (https://amzn.to/3tpzWSf) Krista Cannon's Instagram (https://www.instagram.com/kristaloryn) Special Guest: Krista Cannon.

In this episode Steve shares his story of being diagnosed with Young Onset Parkinson's Disease at 41 and then being diagnosed with Multiple Sclerosis at age 43. He talks about how dealing with those 2 diseases has impacted his faith and spiritual life. NEXT BOOK CLUB: Episode 30 - September 15: "The Making of Biblical Womanhood" by Beth Allison Barr - (buy it here (https://amzn.to/38pWZCV)) Daniel Wheat's new song, "Joy" (listen on Spotify here (https://open.spotify.com/album/3KfmFNT6aP6UVAvYCPAL3M)) Young Onset Parkinson's Disease (https://www.michaeljfox.org/news/young-onset-parkinsons-disease) What is Multiple Sclerosis? (https://www.nationalmssociety.org/What-is-MS) Book: “With” by Skye Jethani (https://www.followingthefire.com//10) Parkinson Association of the Rockies (https://parkinsonrockies.org) Steve's nonprofit and ride across Colorado: Ride for PD (https://www.rideforpd.org) Pedaling 4 Parkinson's (https://pedaling4parkinsons.org) The Michael J. Fox Foundation for Parkinson's Research (https://www.michaeljfox.org) demyelination (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demyelinating_disease) Diagnosing MS (https://www.nationalmssociety.org/Symptoms-Diagnosis/Diagnosing-MS) oligoclonal band (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oligoclonal_band) Picture of Steve's daily medications (https://www.facebook.com/steve.d.martin/posts/10223097325155116) Video: Bible Project - “Soul” (https://youtu.be/g_igCcWAMAM) Mr Rogers (https://www.misterrogers.org)

Probably none of you need to hear this episode, since none of you have ever had an argument, but in case you do find yourself in an argument, this episode is for you. Nathan, a self-appointed expert on arguing, gives us the ABC's of arguments. How to approach them, how to diffuse them, and how to know when to stop pushing and let go. We also talk about true Scotsmen, belief vs. faith, and when losing on purpose is Christ-like. Intro Nathan was a debate nerd Steve was a music nerd They both somehow avoided getting beaten up for it John Hughes films (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Hughes_(filmmaker)#Career) Film: Rocky (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rocky) “Belief” by John Mayer (https://open.spotify.com/track/35LDid9nvuYrUyZk5qGD0i?si=faa451a0775641c0) (Spotify Link) Advice for Arguments Assume Positive Intent Big Picture Curiosity Ted Lasso (https://tv.apple.com/show/umc.cmc.vtoh0mn0xn7t3c643xqonfzy) Nathan is cheap Jesus talking to the Syrophoenician (Canaanite) woman - Matthew 15:22-28 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew%2015%3A22-28&version=NIV) Calling of Matthew - Matthew 9:9-13 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew%209%3A9-13&version=NIV) Calling the fishermen - Calling the fishermen (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+4%3A18-22&version=NIV) “If you're at the altar…” - Matthew 5:23-24 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+5%3A23-24&version=NIV) Take the log out of your own eye first - Matthew 7:3-5 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew%207%3A3-5&version=NIV) Song: “Man In the Mirror” by Michael Jackson (https://open.spotify.com/track/2u2udGmop1z67EPpr91km7?si=6a8a3288fab0482b) Spotify link Alan Watts (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Watts) Parable of the Good Samaritan - Luke 10:25-37 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke%2010%3A25-37&version=NIV) Cartoon: Somebody's wrong on the internet (https://xkcd.com/386/) “Such a time as this…”Esther 4:14 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Esther%204%3A14&version=NIV) Gandalf quote (https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/12357-i-wish-it-need-not-have-happened-in-my-time) Lord's Prayer - Lord's Prayer (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew%206%3A9-13&version=NIV)

Today we're celebrating a new milestone in Following the Fire history - we've passed 25 episodes! And it's Steve's turn to tell about his family's first foray into the “other churches” world. Intro * It's our silver anniversary! * Steve & Nathan are apparently NOT gift-givers * We have a Patreon! (https://www.patreon.com/followingthefire) Visiting the UCC * Tv show: “Star Wars: The Clone Wars” (https://www.disneyplus.com/series/star-wars-the-clone-wars/1wYXzjabXGVZ) * Book: “Faith After Doubt” by Brian McLaren (https://amzn.to/3AOaNmM) * “Ghosting” (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghosting_(behavior)) * United Churches of Christ (https://www.ucc.org) * Plymouth Congregational church (https://www.plymouthucc.org) * “Casa del Sol Prayer of Jesus” by John Philip Newell (https://www.facebook.com/johnphilipnewell/photos/520225848014498) * Pilgrim history (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pilgrims_(Plymouth_Colony)) * Anglican Church (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglicanism) * Song: “Imagine” by John Lennon (https://open.spotify.com/track/7pKfPomDEeI4TPT6EOYjn9?si=082aea1f34194e9c) * Book: “The New Testament” translated by David Bentley Hart (https://amzn.to/3yWvfBv) * Pseudepigrapha (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pseudepigrapha) * Song: “Take Five” by Dave Brubeck (https://open.spotify.com/track/5p6me2mwQrGfH30eExHn6v?si=b59cc4b5a0f5457c) Visiting the DoC * Disciples of Christ (https://disciples.org) * Restoration Movement (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Restoration_Movement) * Heart of the Rockies Church (https://heartoftherockies.org) * Heartside Hill project (https://heartoftherockies.org/landuse/)

Today we have with us Laura Barringer, co-author of “A Church Called Tov”. We had a fabulous conversation with her and learned so much. If you haven't read the book yet, don't worry - Nathan gives a great summary before we get in to the discussion. Do be sure to grab a copy for yourself, though! Links are in the show notes. Book: “A Church Called Tov” by Scot McKnight and Laura Barringer (https://amzn.to/3hFW4U8) Nathan sums up the book Laura introduces herself Willow Creek Church (https://www.willowcreek.org) Article: "After years of inquiries, Willow Creek pastor denies misconduct allegations" (https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/breaking/ct-met-willow-creek-pastor-20171220-story.html) Scot McKnight (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scot_McKnight) Yom Kippur (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yom_Kippur) Beatitudes (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beatitudes) Book: “The Making of Biblical Womanhood: How the Subjugation of Women Became Gospel Truth” by Beth Allison Barr (https://amzn.to/3ioD10S) Book: “Extraordinary Women of Christian History: What We Can Learn from Their Struggles and Triumphs” (https://amzn.to/3s1JVfR) MMPI Diagnostic Test (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minnesota_Multiphasic_Personality_Inventory) Narcissistic Personality Disorder (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcissistic_personality_disorder) Book: “When Narcissism Comes to Church: Healing Your Community From Emotional and Spiritual Abuse” by Chuck DeGroat (https://amzn.to/3Cg4sSG) Mr. Rogers (https://www.misterrogers.org/) Join our Patreon (http://patreon.com/followingthefire) - we'd love your support and we have some fantastic patron perks! Special Guest: Laura Barringer.

Looking for a new faith community is gonna be weird at first, but that's just part of the process, like it or not. Nathan decided to be an overachiever and visited two churches in one day and he tells us all about his experiences. We also start off the episode with some long overdue shout-outs. SHOUT OUTS! Heather's (Nathan's wife) Instagram: @hcat_23 (https://www.instagram.com/hcat_23/) Pacific Crest Trail (https://www.pcta.org) Our international listeners (20+ countries so far!) Review us on Apple Podcasts: Click here (https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/following-the-fire/id1555148658) Holy Post Podcast (https://www.holypost.com/articles) Bible Project Podcast (https://bibleproject.com/podcasts/the-bible-project-podcast/) Sunday Two-Fer Nathan visits a couple Episcopal churches There are too many churches Episcopal Churches (https://www.episcopalchurch.org) C.S. Lewis (https://www.cslewis.com/) NT Wright (https://ntwrightpage.com) Dorothy Sayers (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dorothy_L._Sayers) Nicene Creed (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicene_Creed) High Church (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_church) Passing the Peace (https://www.stgeorgescalgary.com/who-we-are/we-are-anglican/pages/what-is-passing-the-peace) Liturgical Calendar (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liturgical_year) Gospel of Mark (https://bibleproject.com/explore/video/mark/) Mark 6 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Mark%206&version=NIV) Episode 14 (https://www.followingthefire.com/14) - in which we discuss our criteria for finding a church Cathedral of the Plains (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basilica_of_St._Fidelis) Nadia Bolz-Weber (https://nadiabolzweber.com) Sarah Bessey (https://www.sarahbessey.com/) Crazy walls (https://crazywalls.tumblr.com) Bonus episode: The Leaven of Nathan (https://www.followingthefire.com/7b) United Church of Christ (https://www.ucc.org) Romans 16:16 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=%2A+Romans+16%3A16&version=NIV) Join our Patreon (http://patreon.com/followingthefire) - we'd love your support and we have some fantastic patron perks!

Nathan and Steve got to sit down with David Hayward, aka, “NakedPastor” for a fabulous conversation. David is an author, artist, cartoonist, and all-around super nice guy (not just because he's Canadian). We got to hear of his journey from being a pastor for 30 years to being the cartoonist for deconstructing Christians, we talked about his motivations for doing what he does, and much more! Following the Fire book club book: "A Church Called Tov" by Scot McKnight and Laura Barringer (https://amzn.to/3BM4HEF) NakedPastor.com (https://nakedpastor.com) The Far Side (https://www.thefarside.com) “Images of Jesus” series (https://nakedpastor.com/collections/images-of-christ-prints) “Sophia” series (https://nakedpastor.com/collections/sophia-prints) Cartoon: “Two Views of God” (https://nakedpastor.com/collections/prints/products/two-views-cartoon-poster) Cartoon: “I believe I'm right” (https://nakedpastor.com/products/i-believe-im-right-cartoon) Jesus eating with the sinners Mark 2:13-17 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Mark%202%3A13-17&version=NIV) Book: “The Art of Coming Out” (https://amzn.to/2WnTA4J) Cartoon: “Love Versus the Bible” (https://nakedpastor.com/collections/prints/products/love-versus-the-bible-cartoon-print) Author: Eugene Peterson (https://amzn.to/2UKZxs6) Cartoon: “Nothing in Common” (https://nakedpastor.com/collections/prints/products/nothing-in-common-cartoon-print) Book: “Questions Are the Answer” (https://amzn.to/3kZj5U4) Book: “A Cloud of Unknowing” (https://amzn.to/3iUteyZ) First “Sophia” drawing: “Fearless” (https://nakedpastor.com/collections/sophia-prints/products/sophia-fearless-print-poster) Book: “The Liberation of Sophia” (https://amzn.to/2UWJyXJ) Sophia drawing: “Cave” (https://nakedpastor.com/collections/sophia-prints/products/sophia-cave-drawing-print-poster) Sophia drawing: “Light” (https://nakedpastor.com/collections/sophia-prints/products/sophia-light-drawing-print-poster) “My burden is light…” Matthew 11:28-30 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew%2011%3A28-30&version=NIV) Book: “Till Doubt Do Us Part” (https://amzn.to/2WsOUe1) Join our Patreon (http://patreon.com/followingthefire) - we'd love your support and we have some fantastic patron perks! Special Guest: David Hayward.

Today we're talking to Natalie Drew. Natalie is a devout Christian, pacifist, and kind of a theology nerd who also happens to be a trans woman. She shares her story with us of struggling with life before beginning her transition after having a wife and 2 kids, how her marriage weathered the storm, and she gives some great advice to other LGBTQ people in the church, as well as for the rest of the church. I do want to let you know that suicide does come up a few times in this episode. Natalie Drew: Twitter - @natdrew79 (https://twitter.com/natgrace79) Book: “Jesus the Gentle Parent” (https://amzn.to/3xO8rTX) Raw Tools (https://rawtools.org/) “Deadnaming” (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deadnaming) Gender Dysphoria (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_dysphoria) Gender Identity (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_identity) Paul's “thorn in the flesh” 2 Corinthians 12:6-9 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2+Corinthians+12%3A6-9&version=NIV) Naked Pastor cartoons (https://nakedpastor.com/) “The Most Sincere Prayer” (https://nakedpastor.com/blogs/news/dear-god-wtf) Open Theism (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_theism) Greg Boyd (https://reknew.org/) Book:“Crucifixion of the Warrior God” by Greg Boyd (https://amzn.to/3wJoxwx) Merism (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merism) Natalie's Blog (https://nataliegracedrew.wixsite.com/findingnatalie) Hebrews 1:3 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Hebrews%201%3A3&version=NIV) 1 Samuel 8 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Samuel%208&version=NIV) Sacrificial love of Christ - Philippians 2:5-11 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Philippians+2%3A5-11&version=NIV) Heather's Twitter (Natalie's wife): @heatherdrew (https://twitter.com/heatherdrew) Cisgender (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cisgender) Documentary: “Disclosure” (https://www.disclosurethemovie.com) Bridget Eileen Rivera (https://www.meditationsofatravelingnun.com/) Austen Heartke (http://austenhartke.com) Biblical love: 1 Corinthians 13 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Corinthians%2013&version=NIV) Join our Patreon (http://patreon.com/followingthefire) - we'd love your support and we have some fantastic patron perks! Special Guest: Natalie Drew.

On today's podcast we're discussing a variety of topics including how our deconstruction's going, what relationships look like when they're not connected to a church, the Bible and being “right” and, unsurprisingly, it all ends up pointing to love. Intro * The band is back together * How's Steve's deconstruction going? * Book: “The Long Tail” (https://amzn.to/2VvS3sW) Relationships outside of church * It's possible to have friends who are NOT at church with you The Bible & Rightness * Book: “Predictably Irrational” (https://amzn.to/2T3Haxv) * “Let's start at the very beginning….” ”Sound of Music - “Do Re Mi” (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=drnBMAEA3AM) * “Rooted and established in love” - Ephesians 3:14-19 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Ephesians+3%3A14-19&version=NIV) * Love sums up the Law and the Prophets - Matthew 22:38-40 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+22%3A38-40&version=NIV) and Romans 13:9-10 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans+13%3A9-10&version=NIV) and Galatians 5:14 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Galatians+5%3A14&version=NIV) It's about love * Become like children - Matthew 18:2-4 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew%2018%3A2-4&version=NIV) * “If there's a group of people that we're gonna be disappointed that God's okay with them, we might be doing it wrong” — Nathan Join our Patreon (http://patreon.com/followingthefire) - we'd love your support and we have some fantastic patron perks!

We've invited Valerie Quirey (American, Canadian, former Brazilian, & church planter) to discuss possibly the most unsettling (yet important!) book any of us have read this year. The discussion was fantastic! Book club book: “Jesus & John Wayne” by Kristen Kobez Du Mez (https://amzn.to/3guco9Y) Special guest: Valerie Quirey Valerie's Twitter: @val_q (https://twitter.com/val_q) Join our Patreon (http://patreon.com/followingthefire) - we'd love your support and we have some fantastic patron perks! Special Guest: Valerie Quirey.

Today we're going to be discussing the book Affirming: A Memoir of Faith, Sexuality, and Staying in the Church by Sally Gary. This is Sally's second memoir, and it's about her journey from her youth growing up in the church of Christ, coming to terms with her sexuality as a gay woman, and moving from a stance of not approving of same sex marriage herself to marrying her wife Karen just this past year — all while remaining devoted to God. It's a deeply touching story, and I believe a very important one that all Christians should check out. Book: "Affirming" by Sally Gary (https://amzn.to/3dhuOcc) CenterPeace (https://www.centerpeace.net) Stamford Church of Christ (https://www.stamfordchurch.com/) in Stamford Connectictut Audio book: Affirming (https://www.audible.com/pd/B08Y68YJSN?action_code=SNGGBWS072717001P&ipRedirectOverride=true) Book: “Unclobber” by Colby Martin (https://amzn.to/2UKG36s) Ephesians 2 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Ephesians%202&version=NLT) Highland Church of Christ (http://highlandchurch.org) in Abilene, TX CenterPeace 15th Anniversary Party Video (https://fb.watch/6oBHnYTEri/) CenterPeace Podcast (https://www.centerpeace.net/podcast) Please support the work of CenterPeace: Donate Online here (https://www.centerpeace.net/donate) Mail contributions to: CenterPeace 10805 Walnut Hill Lane Dallas, TX 75238 Join our Patreon (http://patreon.com/followingthefire) - we'd love your support and we have some fantastic patron perks! Special Guest: Sally Gary.