Podcasts about Gilgamesh

What makes a character so compelling that readers will forgive almost anything about the plot? How do you move beyond vague flaws and generic descriptions to create people who feel pulled from real life? In this solo episode, I share 15 actionable tips for writing deep characters, curated from past interviews on the podcast. In the intro, thoughts from London Book Fair [Instagram reel @jfpennauthor; Publishing Perspectives; Audible; Spotify]; Insights from a 7-figure author business [BookBub]. This show is supported by my Patrons. Join my Community and get articles, discounts, and extra audio and video tutorials on writing craft, author business, and AI tools, at Patreon.com/thecreativepenn This episode has been created from previous episodes of The Creative Penn Podcast, curated by Joanna Penn, as well as chapters from How to Write a Novel: From Idea to Book. Links to the individual episodes are included in the transcript below. In this episode: Master the ‘Believe, Care, Invest' trifecta, how to hook readers on the very first page Define the Dramatic Question: Who is your character when the chips are down? Absolute specificity. Why “she's controlling” isn't good enough Understand the Heroine's Journey, strength through connection, not solo action Use ‘Metaphor Families' to anchor dialogue and give every character a distinctive voice Find the Diagnostic Detail, the moments that prove a character is real Writing pain onto the page without writing memoir Write diverse characters as real people, not stereotypes or plot devices Give your protagonist a morally neutral ‘hero' status. Compelling beats likeable. Build vibrant side characters for series longevity and spin-off potential Use voice as a rhythmic tool Link character and plot until they're inseparable Why discovery writers can write out of order and still build deep character Find the sensory details that make characters live and breathe More help with how to write fiction here, or in my book, How to Write a Novel. Writing Characters: 15 Tips for Writing Deep Character in Your Fiction In today's episode, I'm sharing fifteen tips for writing deep characters, synthesised from some of the most insightful interviews on The Creative Penn Podcast over the past few years, combined with what I've learned across more than forty books of my own. I'll be referencing episodes with Matt Bird, Will Storr, Gail Carriger, Barbara Nickless, and Sarah Elisabeth Sawyer. I'll also draw on my own book, How to Write a Novel, which covers these fundamentals in detail. Whether you're writing your first novel or your fiftieth, whether you're a plotter or a discovery writer like me, these tips will help you create characters that readers believe in, care about, and invest in—and keep coming back for more. Let's get into it. 1. Master the ‘Believe, Care, Invest' Trifecta When I spoke with Matt Bird on episode 624, he laid out the three things you need to achieve on the very first page of your book or in the first ten minutes of a film. He calls it “Believe, Care, and Invest.” First, the reader must believe the character is a real person, somehow proving they are not a cardboard imitation of a human being, not just a generic type walking through a generic plot. Second, the reader must care about the character's circumstances. And third, the reader must invest in the character's ability to solve the story's central problem. Matt used The Hunger Games as his primary example, and it's brilliant. On the very first page, we believe Katniss's voice. Suzanne Collins writes in first person with a staccato rhythm—lots of periods, short declarative sentences—that immediately grounds us in a survivalist mentality. We care because Katniss is starving. She's protecting her little sister. And we invest because she is out there bow hunting, which Matt pointed out is one of the most badass things a character can do. She even kills a lynx two pages in and sells the pelt. We invest in her resourcefulness and grit before the plot has even begun. Matt was very clear that this has nothing to do with the character being “likable.” He said his subtitle, Writing a Hero Anyone Will Love, doesn't mean the character has to be a good person. He described “hero” as both gender-neutral and morally neutral. A hero can be totally evil or totally good. What matters is that we believe, care, and invest. He demonstrated this beautifully by breaking down the first ten minutes of WeCrashed, where the characters of Adam and Rebekah Neumann are absolutely not likable, but we are completely hooked. Adam steals his neighbour's Chinese food through a carefully orchestrated con involving an imaginary beer. It's not admirable behaviour, but the tradecraft involved, as Matt put it—using a term from spy movies—makes us invest in him. We see a character trying to solve the big problem of his life, which is that he's poor and wants to be rich, and we want to see if he can pull it off. Actionable step: Go to the first page of your current work in progress. Does it achieve all three? Does the reader believe this is a real person with a distinctive voice? Do they care about the character's circumstances? And do they invest in the character's ability to handle what's coming? If even one of those three is missing, that's your revision priority. 2. Define the Dramatic Question: Who Are They Really? Will Storr, author of The Science of Storytelling, came on episode 490 and gave one of the most powerful frameworks I've ever heard for character-driven fiction. He explained that the human brain evolved language primarily to swap social information—in other words, to gossip. We are wired to monitor other people, to ask the question: who is this person when the chips are down? That's what Will calls the Dramatic Question, and it's what he believes lies at the heart of all compelling storytelling. It's not a question about plot. It's a question about the character's soul. And every scene in your novel should force the character to answer it. His example of Lawrence of Arabia is unforgettable. The Dramatic Question for the entire film is: who are you, Lawrence? Are you ordinary or are you extraordinary? At the beginning, Lawrence is a cocky, rebellious young soldier who believes his rebelliousness makes him superior. Every iconic scene in that three-hour film tests that belief. Sometimes Lawrence acts as though he truly is extraordinary—leading the Arabs into battle, being hailed as a god—and sometimes the world strips him bare and he sees himself as ordinary. Because it's a tragedy, he never overcomes his flaw. He doubles down on his belief that he's extraordinary until he becomes monstrous, culminating in that iconic scene where he lifts a bloody dagger and sees his own reflection with horror. Will also used Jaws to demonstrate how this works in a pure action thriller. Brody's dramatic question is simple: are you going to be old Brody who is terrified of the water, or new Brody who can overcome that fear? Every scene where the shark appears is really asking that question. And the last moment of the film isn't the shark blowing up. It's Brody swimming back through the water, saying he used to be scared of the water and he can't imagine why. Actionable step: Write down the Dramatic Question for your protagonist in a single sentence. Is it “Are you ordinary or extraordinary?” or “Are you brave enough to love again?” or “Will you sacrifice your principles for survival?” If you can't answer this with specificity, your character might still be a sketch rather than a person. 3. Get rid of Vague Flaws, and use Absolute Specificity This was one of Will Storr's most important points. He said that vague thinking about characters is really the enemy. When he teaches workshops and asks writers to describe their character's flaw, most of them say something like “they're very controlling.” And Will's response is: that's not good enough. Everyone is controlling. How are they controlling? What's the specific mechanism? He gave the example of a profile he read of Theresa May during the UK's Brexit chaos. Someone who knew her said that Theresa May's problem was that she always thinks she's the only adult in every room she goes into. Will said that stopped him in his tracks because it's so precise. If you define a character with that level of specificity, you can take them and put them in any genre, any situation—a spaceship, a Victorian drawing room, a school playground—and you will know exactly how they're going to behave. The same applies to Arthur Miller's Willy Loman in Death of a Salesman, as Will described it: a man who believes absolutely in capitalistic success and the idea that when you die, you're going to be weighed on a scale, just as God weighs you for sin, but now you're weighed for success. That's not a vague flaw. That's a worldview you can drop into any story and watch it combust. Will made another counterintuitive point that I found really valuable: writers often think that piling on multiple traits will create a complex character, but the opposite is true. Starting with one highly specific flaw and running it through the demands of a relentless plot is what generates complexity. You end up with a far more nuanced, original character than if you'd started with a laundry list of vague attributes. Actionable step: Take your protagonist's flaw and pressure-test it. Is it specific enough that you could place this character in any situation and predict their behaviour? If you're stuck at “she's stubborn” or “he's insecure,” keep pushing. What kind of stubborn? What kind of insecure? Find the diagnostic sentence—the Theresa May level of precision. 4. Understand the Heroine's Journey: Strength Through Connection Gail Carriger came on episode 550 to discuss her nonfiction book, The Heroine's Journey, and it completely reframed how I think about some of my own fiction. Gail explained that the core difference between the Hero's Journey and the Heroine's Journey comes down to how strength and victory are defined. The Hero's Journey is about strength through solo action. The hero must be continually isolated to get stronger. He goes out of civilisation, faces strife alone, and achieves victory through physical prowess and self-actualisation. The Heroine's Journey is the opposite. The heroine achieves her goals by activating a network. She's a delegator, a general. She identifies where she can't do something alone, finds the people who can help, and portions out the work for mutual gain. Gail put it simply: the heroine is very good at asking for help, which our culture tends to devalue but which is actually a powerful form of strength. Crucially, Gail stressed that gender is irrelevant to which journey you're writing. Her go-to examples are striking: the recent Wonder Woman film is practically a beat-for-beat hero's journey—Gilgamesh on screen, as Gail described it. Meanwhile, Harry Potter, both the first book and the series as a whole, is a classic heroine's journey. Harry's power comes from his network—Dumbledore's Army, the Order of the Phoenix, his friendships with Ron and Hermione. He doesn't defeat Voldemort alone. He defeats Voldemort because of love and connection. This distinction has real practical consequences for writers. If you're writing a hero's journey and you hit writer's block, Gail said, the solution is usually to isolate your hero further and pile on more strife. But if you're writing a heroine's journey, the solution is probably to throw a new character into the scene—someone who has advice to offer or a skill the heroine lacks. The actual solutions to writer's block are different depending on which narrative you're writing. As I reflected on my own work, I realised that my ARKANE thriller protagonist, Morgan Sierra, follows a hero's journey—she's a solo operative, a lone wolf like Jack Reacher or James Bond. But my Mapwalker fantasy series follows a heroine's journey, with Sienna and her group of friends working together. I hadn't consciously chosen those paths; the stories led me there. But understanding the framework helps me write more intentionally now. Actionable step: Identify which journey your protagonist is on. Does your character gain strength by being alone (hero) or by building connections (heroine)? This will inform every plot decision you make, from how they face obstacles to how your story ends. 5. Use ‘Metaphor Families' to Anchor Dialogue and Voice One of the most practical techniques Matt Bird shared on episode 624 is the idea of assigning each character a “metaphor family”—a specific well of language that they draw from. This gives each character a distinctive voice that goes beyond accent or dialect. Matt explained how in The Wire, one of the most beloved TV shows of all time, every character has a different metaphor family. What struck him was that Omar, this iconic character, never utters a single curse word in the entire series. His metaphor family is pirate. He talks about parlays, uses language that feels like it belongs in Pirates of the Caribbean, and it creates this incredible ironic counterpoint against his urban setting. It tells us immediately that this is a character who sees himself in a tradition of people that doesn't match his immediate surroundings. Matt also referenced the UK version of The Office, where Gareth works at a paper company but aspires to the military. So all of his language is drawn from a military metaphor family. He doesn't talk about filing and photocopying; he talks about tactics and discipline and being on the front line. This tells us that the character has a life and dreams beyond the immediate scene—and it's the gap between aspiration and reality that makes him both funny and believable. He pointed out that a metaphor family sometimes comes from a character's background, but it's often more interesting when it comes from their aspirations. What does your character want to be? What world do they fantasise about inhabiting? That's where their language should come from. In Star Wars, Obi-Wan Kenobi is a spiritual hermit, but his metaphor family is military. He uses the language of generals and commanders, and that ironic counterpoint is part of what makes him feel so rich. Actionable step: Assign each of your main characters a metaphor family. It could be based on their job, their background, or—more interestingly—their secret aspirations. Then go through your dialogue and make sure each character is consistently drawing from that well of language. If two characters sound the same when you strip away the dialogue tags, this is the fix. 6. Find the Diagnostic Detail: The Diagonal Toast Avoid clichéd character tags—the random scar, the eye patch, the mysterious limp—unless they serve a deep narrative purpose. Matt Bird on episode 624 was very funny about this: he pointed out that Nick Fury, Odin, and eventually Thor all have eye patches in the Marvel Cinematic Universe. Eye patches are done, he said. You cannot do eye patches anymore. Instead, look for what I'm calling the “diagonal toast” detail, after a scene Matt described from Captain Marvel. In the film, Captain Marvel is trying to determine whether Nick Fury is who he says he is. She asks him to prove he isn't a shapeshifting alien. Fury shares biographical details—his history, his mother—but then she pushes further and says, name one more thing you couldn't possibly have made up about yourself. And Fury says: if toast is cut diagonally, I can't eat it. Matt said that detail is gold for a writer because it feels pulled from a real life. You can pull it from your own life and gift it to your characters, and the reader can tell it's not manufactured. He gave another example from The Sopranos: Tony Soprano's mother won't answer the phone after dark. The show's creator, David Chase, confirmed on the DVD commentary that this came from his own mother, who genuinely would not answer the phone after dark and couldn't explain why. Matt's practical advice was to keep a journal. Write down the strange, specific things that people do or say. Mine your own life for those hyper-specific details. You just need one per book. In my own writing, I've used this approach. In my ARKANE thrillers, my character Morgan Sierra has always been Angelina Jolie in my mind—specifically Jolie in Lara Croft or Mr and Mrs Smith. And Blake Daniel in my crime thriller series was based on Jesse Williams from Grey's Anatomy. I paste pictures of actors into my Scrivener projects. It helps with visuals, but also with the sense of the character, their energy and physicality. But visual details only take you so far. It's the behavioural quirks—the diagonal toast moments—that make a character feel genuinely alive. That said, physical character tags can work brilliantly when they serve the story. As I discuss in How to Write a Novel, Robert Galbraith's Cormoran Strike is an amputee, and his pain and the physical challenges of his prosthesis are a key part of every story—it's not a cosmetic detail, it's woven into the action and the character's psychology. My character Blake Daniel always wears gloves to cover the scars on his hands, which provides an angle into his wounded past as well as a visual cue for the reader. And of course, Harry Potter's lightning-shaped scar isn't just a mark—it's a direct connection to his nemesis and the mythology of the entire series. The rule of thumb is: if the tag tells us something about the character's interior life or connects to the plot, it's earning its place. If it's just there to make the character visually distinctive, it's probably a crutch. Game of Thrones takes character tags further with the family houses, each with their own mottos and sigils. The Starks say “Winter is coming” and their sigil is a dire wolf. Those aren't just labels—they're worldview made visible. Actionable step: Start a “diagonal toast” notebook. Every time you notice something strange and specific about someone's behaviour—something that feels too real to be made up—write it down. Then gift it to a character who needs more texture. 7. Displace Your Own Trauma into the Work Barbara Nickless shared something deeply personal on episode 732 that fundamentally changed how I think about putting pain onto the page. While starting At First Light, the first book in her Dr. Evan Wilding series, she lost her son to epilepsy—something called SUDEP, Sudden Unexplained Death in Epilepsy. One day he was there, and the next day he was gone. Barbara said that writing helped her cope with the trauma, that doing a deep dive into Old English literature and the Viking Age for the book's research became a lifeline. But here's what's important: she didn't give Dr. Evan Wilding her exact trauma. Evan Wilding is four feet five inches, and Barbara described how he has to walk through a world that won't adjust to him. That's its own form of learning to cope when circumstances are beyond your control. She displaced her genuine grief into the character's different but parallel struggle. When I asked her about the difference between writing for therapy and writing for an audience, she drew on her experience teaching creative writing to veterans through a collaboration between the US Department of Defense and the National Endowment for the Arts. She said she's found that she can pour her heartache into her characters and process it through them, even when writing professionally, and that the genuine emotion is what touches readers. We've all been through our own losses and griefs, so seeing how a character copes can be deeply meaningful. I've always found that putting my own pain onto the page is the most direct way to connect with a reader's soul. My character Morgan Sierra's musings on religion and the supernatural are often my own. Her restlessness, her fascination with the darker edges of faith—those come from me. But her Krav Maga fighting skills and her ability to kill the bad guys are definitely her own. That gap between what's mine and what's hers is where the fiction lives. Barbara also said something on that episode that I wrote down and stuck on my wall. She said the act of producing itself is a balm to the soul. I've been thinking about that ever since. On my own wall, I have “Measure your life by what you create.” Different words, same truth. Actionable step: If you're carrying something heavy—grief, anger, fear, regret—consider how you might displace it into a character's different but emotionally parallel struggle. Don't copy your exact situation; transform it. The emotion will be genuine, and the reader will feel it. 8. Write Diverse Characters as Real People When I spoke with Sarah Elisabeth Sawyer on episode 673—Sarah is Choctaw and a historical fiction author honoured by the Smithsonian's National Museum of the American Indian—she offered a perspective that every fiction writer needs to hear. The key message was to move away from stereotypes. Don't write your American Indian character as the “Wise Guide” who exists solely to dispense mystic wisdom to the white protagonist. Don't limit diverse characters to historical settings, as though they only exist in the past. Place them in normal, contemporary roles. Your spaceship captain, your forensic scientist, your small-town baker—any of them can be American Indian, or Nigerian, or Japanese, and their heritage should be a lived-in part of their identity, not the sole reason they exist in the story. I write international thrillers and dark fantasy, and my fiction is populated with characters from all over the world. I have a multi-cultural family and I've lived in many places and travelled widely, so I've met, worked with, and had relationships with people from different cultures. I find story ideas through travel, and if I set my books in a certain place, then the story is naturally populated with the people who live there. As I discuss in my book, How to Write a Novel, the world is a diverse place, so your fiction needs to be populated with all kinds of people. If I only populated my fiction with characters like me, they would be boring novels. There are many dimensions of difference—race, nationality, sex, age, body type, ability, religion, gender, sexual orientation, socio-economic status, class, culture, education level—and even then, don't assume that similar types of people think the same way. Some authors worry they will make mistakes. We live in a time of outrage, and some authors have been criticised for writing outside their own experience. So is it too dangerous to try? Of course not. The media amplifies outliers, and most authors include diverse characters in every book without causing offence because they work hard to get it right. It's about awareness, research, and intent. Actionable step: Audit the cast of your current work in progress. Have you written a mono-cultural perspective for all of them? If so, consider who could bring a different background, perspective, or set of cultural specifics to the story. Not as a token addition, but as a real person with a real life. 9. Respect Tribal and Cultural Specificity Sarah Elisabeth Sawyer on episode 673 was emphatic about one thing: never treat diverse groups as monolithic. If you're writing a Native American character, you must research the specific nation. Choctaw is not Navajo, just as British is not French. Sarah described the distinct cultural markers of the Choctaw people—the diamond pattern you'll see on traditional shirts and dresses, which represents the diamondback rattlesnake. They have distinct dances and songs. She said that if she saw someone in traditional dress at a distance, she would know whether they were Choctaw based on what they were wearing. She encouraged writers who want to write specifically about a nation to get to know those people. Go to events, go to a powwow, learn about the individual culture. She noted that a big misconception is that American Indians exist only in the past—she stressed that they are still here, still living their cultures, and fiction should reflect that present reality. I took a similar approach when writing Destroyer of Worlds, which is set mostly in India. I read books about Hindu myth, watched documentaries about the sadhus, and had one of my Indian readers from Mumbai check my cultural references. For Risen Gods, set in New Zealand with a young Maori protagonist, I studied books about Maori mythology and fiction by Maori authors, and had a male Maori reader check for cultural issues. Research is simply an act of empathy. The practical takeaway is this: if you're going to include a character from a specific cultural background, do the work. Use specific cultural details rather than generic signifiers. Sarah talked about how even she fell into stereotypes when she was first writing, until her mother pointed them out. If someone from within a culture can fall into those traps, the rest of us certainly can. Do the research, try your best, ask for help, and apologise if you need to. Actionable step: If you're writing a character from a specific culture, identify three to five sensory or behavioural details that are particular to that culture—not the generic version, but the real, researched, lived-in version. Consider hiring a sensitivity reader from that community to check your work. 10. Give Your Protagonist a Morally Neutral ‘Hero' Status Matt Bird was clear about this on episode 624: the word “hero” simply means the protagonist, the person we follow through the story. It's a functional role, not a moral label. We don't have to like them. We don't even have to root for their goals in a moral sense. We just have to find them compelling enough to invest our attention in their problem-solving. Think of Succession, where every member of the Roy family is varying degrees of awful, and yet the show was utterly compelling. Or WeCrashed, where Adam Neumann is a narcissistic con artist, but we can't look away because he's trying to solve the enormous problem of building an empire from nothing, and the tradecraft he employs is fascinating. As I wrote in How to Write a Novel, readers must want to spend time with your characters. They don't have to be lovable or even likable—that will depend on your genre and story choices—but they have to be captivating enough that we want to spend time with them. A character who is trying to solve a massive problem will naturally draw investment from the audience, even if we wouldn't want to have tea with them. Will Storr extended this idea by pointing out that the audience will actually root for a character to solve their problem even if the audience doesn't actually want the character's goal to be achieved in the real world. We don't really want more billionaires, but we invested in Adam Neumann's rise because that was the problem the story posed, and our brains are wired to invest in problem-solving. This connects to something deeper: what does your character want, and why? As I explore in How to Write a Novel, desire operates on multiple levels. Take a character like Phil, who joins the military during wartime. On the surface, she wants to serve her country. But she also wants to escape her dead-end town and learn new skills. Deeper still, her father and grandfather served, and by joining up, she hopes to finally earn their respect. And perhaps deepest of all, her father died on a mission under mysterious circumstances, and she wants to find out what happened from the inside. That layering of motivation is what turns a flat character into a three-dimensional one. The audience doesn't need to be told all of this explicitly. It can emerge through action, dialogue, and the choices the character makes under pressure. But you, the writer, need to know it. You need to know what your character really wants deep down, because that desire—more than any external plot device—is what drives the story forward. And your antagonist needs the same depth. They also want something, often diametrically opposed to your protagonist, and they need a reason that makes sense to them. In my ARKANE thriller Tree of Life, my antagonist is the heiress of a Brazilian mining empire who wants to restore the Earth to its original state to atone for the destruction caused by her father's company. She's part of a radical ecological group who believe the only way to restore Nature is to end all human life. It's extreme, but in an era of climate change, it's a motivation readers can understand—even if they disagree with the solution. Actionable step: If you're struggling to make a morally grey character work, make sure their problem is big enough and their methods are specific and interesting enough that we invest in the how, even if we're ambivalent about the what. 11. Build Vibrant Side Characters Gail Carriger made a point on episode 550 that was equal parts craft advice and business strategy. In a Heroine's Journey model, side characters aren't just fodder to be killed off to motivate the hero. They form a network. And because you don't have to kill them—unlike in a hero's journey, where allies are often betrayed or removed so the hero can be further isolated—you can pick up those side characters and give them their own books. Gail said this creates a really voracious reader base. You write one series with vivid side characters, and then readers fall in love with those side characters and want their stories. So you write spin-offs. The romance genre does this brilliantly—think of the Bridgerton books, where each sibling gets their own novel. The side character in one book becomes the protagonist in the next. Barbara Nickless experienced this firsthand with her Dr. Evan Wilding series. She has River Wilding, Evan's adventurous brother, and Diana, the axe-throwing research assistant, and her editor has already expressed interest in a spin-off series with those characters. Barbara described creating characters she wants to spend time with, or characters who give her nightmares but also intrigue her. That's the dual test: are they interesting enough for you to write, and interesting enough for readers to demand more? As I wrote in How to Write a Novel, characters that span series can deepen the reader's relationship with them as you expand their backstory into new plots. Readers will remember the character more than the plot or the book title, and look forward to the next instalment because they want more time with those people. British crime author Angela Marsons described it as readers feeling like returning to her characters is like putting on a pair of old slippers. Actionable step: Look at your supporting cast. Is there a side character who is vivid enough to carry their own story? If not, what could you add—a specific hobby, a distinct voice, a compelling backstory—that would make readers want more of them? 12. Use Voice as a Rhythmic Tool Voice is one of the most important elements of novel writing, and Matt Bird helped me think about it in a technical, mechanical way that I found really useful. He pointed out that the ratio of periods to commas defines a character's internal reality. A staccato rhythm—lots of periods, short sentences—suggests a character who is certain, grounded, or perhaps survivalist and traumatised. Katniss in The Hunger Games has a period-heavy voice. She's in survival mode. She doesn't have time for complexity or qualification. A flowing, comma-heavy style suggests someone more academic, more nuanced, or possibly more scattered and manipulative. The character who qualifies everything, who adds sub-clauses and digressions, is a different kind of person from the character who speaks in declarations. This is something you can actually measure. Pull up a passage of your character's dialogue or internal monologue and count the periods versus the commas. If the rhythm doesn't match who the character is supposed to be, you've found a mismatch you can fix. Sentence length is the heartbeat of your character's persona. And voice extends beyond rhythm to the words themselves. As I discussed in the metaphor families tip, each character should draw from a distinctive well of language. But voice also encompasses their relationship to silence. Some characters talk around the thing they mean; others say it straight. Some are self-deprecating; others are blunt to the point of rudeness. All of these choices are character choices, not just style choices. I find it useful to read my dialogue aloud—and not just to check for naturalness, but to hear whether each character sounds distinct. If you could swap dialogue lines between two characters and nobody would notice, you have a voice problem. One practical test: cover the dialogue tags and see if you can tell who's speaking from the words alone. Actionable step: Choose a key passage from your protagonist's point of view and read it aloud. Does the rhythm match the character? A soldier under fire should not sound like a philosophy professor at a wine tasting. Adjust the ratio of periods to commas until the voice feels right. 13. Link Character and Plot Until They're Inseparable Will Storr made the case on episode 490 that the number one problem he sees in the writing he encounters—in workshops, in submissions, even in published books—is that the characters and the plots are unconnected. There's a story happening, and there are people in it, but the story isn't a product of who those people are. He said a story should be like life. In our lives, the plots are intimately connected to who we are as characters. The goals we pursue, the obstacles we face, the same problems that keep recurring—these are products of our personalities, our flaws, our specific ways of being in the world. His framework is that your plot should be designed specifically to plot against your character. You've got a character with a particular flaw; the plot exists to test that flaw over and over until the character either transforms or doubles down and explodes. Jaws is the perfect example. Brody is afraid of water. A shark shows up in the coastal town he's responsible for protecting. The entire plot is engineered to force him to confront the one thing he cannot face. Will pointed out that the whole plot of Jaws is structured around Brody's flaw. It begins with the shark arriving, the midpoint is when Brody finally gets the courage to go into the water, and the very final scene isn't the shark blowing up—it's Brody swimming back through the water. Even a film that's ninety-eight percent action is, at its core, structured around a character with a character flaw. This is the standard I aspire to in my own work, even in my action-heavy thrillers. The external plot should be a mirror of the internal struggle. When those two are aligned, the story becomes irresistible. Will also made an important point about series fiction, which is where most commercial authors live. I asked him how this works when your character can't be transformed at the end of every book because there has to be a next book. His answer was elegant: you don't cure them. Episodic TV characters like Fleabag or David Brent or Basil Fawlty never truly change—and the fact that they don't change is actually the source of the comedy. But every episode throws a new story event at them that tests and exposes their flaw. You just keep throwing story events at them again and again. That's a soap opera, a sitcom, and a book series. As I wrote in How to Write a Novel, character flaws are aspects of personality that affect the person so much that facing and overcoming them becomes central to the plot. In Jaws, the protagonist Brody is afraid of the water, but he has to overcome that flaw to destroy the killer shark and save the town. But remember, your characters should feel like real people, so never define them purely by their flaws. The character addicted to painkillers might also be a brilliant and successful female lawyer who gets up at four in the morning to work out at the gym, likes eighties music, and volunteers at the local dog shelter at weekends. Character wounds are different from flaws. They're formed from life experience and are part of your character's backstory—traumatic events that happened before the events of your novel but shape the character's reactions in the present. In my ARKANE thrillers, Morgan Sierra's husband Elian died in her arms during a military operation. This happened before the series begins, but her memories of it recur when she faces a firefight, and she struggles to find happiness again for fear of losing someone she loves once more. And then there's the perennial advice: show, don't tell. Most writers have heard this so many times that it's easy to nod and then promptly write scenes that tell rather than show. Basically, you need to reveal your character through action and dialogue, rather than explanation. In my thriller Day of the Vikings, Morgan Sierra fights a Neo-Viking in the halls of the British Museum and brings him down with Krav Maga. That fight scene isn't just about showing action. It opens up questions about her backstory, demonstrates character, and moves the plot forward. Telling would be something like: “Morgan was an expert in Krav Maga.” Showing is the reader discovering it through the scene itself. Actionable step: Look at the main plot events of your novel. For each major turning point, ask: does this scene specifically test my protagonist's flaw? If not, can you redesign the scene so that it does? The tighter the connection between character and plot, the more powerful the story. 14. The ‘Maestra' Approach: Write Out of Order If you're a discovery writer like me, you may feel like the deep character work I've been describing sounds more suited to plotters. But Barbara Nickless gave me a beautiful metaphor on episode 732 that reframes it entirely. Barbara described her evolving writing process as being like a maestra standing in front of an orchestra. Sometimes you bring in the horns—a certain theme—and sometimes you bring in the strings—a certain character—and sometimes you turn to the soloist. It's a more organic and jumping-around process than linear writing, and Barbara said she's only recently given herself permission to work this way. When I told her that I use Scrivener to write in scenes out of order and then drag and drop them into a structure later, she was genuinely intrigued. And this is how I've always worked. I'll see the story in my mind like a movie trailer—flashes of the big emotional scenes, the pivotal confrontations, the moments of revelation—and I write those first. I don't know how they hang together until quite late in the process. Then I'll move scenes around, print the whole thing out, and figure out the connective tissue. The point is that discovery writers can absolutely build deep characters. Sometimes writing the big emotional scenes first is how you discover who the character is before you fill in the rest. You don't need a twenty-page character worksheet or a 200-page outline like Jeffery Deaver. You need to be willing to follow the character into the unknown and trust that the structure will emerge. As Barbara said, she writes to know what she's thinking. That's the discovery writer's credo. And I would add: I write to know who my characters are. Actionable step: If you're stuck on your current chapter, skip it. Write the scene that's burning in your imagination, even if it's from the middle or the end. That scene might be the key to unlocking who your character really is. 15. Use Research to Help with Empathy Research shouldn't just be about factual accuracy—it's a tool for finding the sensory details that create empathy. Barbara Nickless described research as almost an excuse to explore things that fascinate her, and I feel exactly the same way. I would go so far as to say that writing is an excuse for me to explore the things that interest me. Barbara and I both travel for our stories. For her Dr. Evan Wilding books, she did deep research into Old English literature and the Viking Age. For my thriller End of Days, I transcribed hours of video from Appalachian snake-handling churches on YouTube to understand the worldview of the worshippers, because my antagonist was brought up in that tradition. I couldn't just make that up. I had to hear their language, feel their conviction, understand why they would hold venomous serpents as an act of faith. Barbara also mentioned getting to Israel and the West Bank for research, and I've been to both places too. Finding that one specific sensory detail—the smell of a particular location, the specific way an expert handles a tool, the sound of a particular kind of music—makes the character's life feel lived-in. It's the difference between a character who is described as living in a place and a character who inhabits it. As I wrote in How to Write a Novel, don't write what you know. Write what you want to learn about. I love research. It's part of why I'm an author in the first place. I take any excuse to dive into a world different from my own. Research using books, films, podcasts, and travel, and focus particularly on sources produced by people from the worldview you want to understand. Actionable step: For your next piece of character research, go beyond reading. Watch a documentary, visit a location, talk to someone who lives the experience. Find one sensory detail—a smell, a sound, a texture—that you couldn't have invented. That detail will make your character feel real. Bonus: Measure Your Life by What You Create In an age of AI and a tsunami of content, your ultimate brand protection is the quality of your human creation. Barbara Nickless said that the act of producing itself is a balm to the soul, and I believe that with every fibre of my being. Don't be afraid to take that step back, like I did with my deadlifting. Take the time to master these deeper craft skills. It might feel like you're slowing down or going backwards by not chasing the latest marketing trend, but it's the only way to step forward into a sustainable, high-quality career. Your characters are your signature. No AI can replicate the specificity of your lived experience, the emotional truth of your displaced trauma, or the sensory details you've gathered from a life of curiosity and travel. Those are yours. Pour them into your characters, and they will resonate for years to come. Actionable Takeaway: Identify the Dramatic Question for your current protagonist. Can you state it in a single sentence with the kind of specificity Will Storr described? Is it as clear as “Are you ordinary or extraordinary?” or “Are you the only adult in the room?” If you can't answer it with that kind of precision, your character might still be a sketch. Give them a diagonal toast moment today. Find the one hyper-specific detail that proves they are not an imitation of life. And then ask yourself: does your plot test your character's flaw in every major scene? If you can align those two things—a precisely defined character and a plot that exists to test them—you will have a story that readers cannot put down. References and Deep Dives The episodes I've referenced today are all available with full transcripts at TheCreativePenn.com: Episode 732 — Facing Fears, and Writing Unique Characters with Barbara Nickless Episode 673 — Writing Choctaw Characters and Diversity in Fiction with Sarah Elisabeth Sawyer Episode 624 — Writing Characters with Matt Bird Episode 550 — The Heroine's Journey with Gail Carriger Episode 490 — How Character Flaws Shape Story with Will Storr Books mentioned: The Secrets of Character: Writing a Hero Anyone Will Love by Matt Bird The Science of Storytelling by Will Storr The Heroine's Journey by Gail Carriger How to Write a Novel: From Idea to Book by Joanna Penn You can find all my books for authors at CreativePennBooks.com and my fiction and memoir at JFPennBooks.com Happy writing! How was this episode created? This episode was initiated created by NotebookLM based on YouTube videos of the episodes linked above from YouTube/TheCreativePenn, plus my text chapters on character from How to Write a Novel. NotebookLM created a blog post from the material and then I expanded it and fact checked it with Claude.ai 4.6 Opus, and then I used my voice clone at ElevenLabs to narrate it. The post Writing Characters: 15 Actionable Tips For Writing Deep Character first appeared on The Creative Penn.

Talk about wild! Hearing the process and real life situations someone has to go through to discover that they could channel and then having a conversation with the entities live on the show, amazing! If you thought this podcast kept it weird, you have no idea just how weird it can get! Stay weird initiates!To Follow Us On Patreon—> https://www.patreon.com/c/MetaMysticsEmail Us!—> MetaMystics@yahoo.comSubscribe to our Youtube—> http://www.youtube.com/@MetaMysticsTo Follow Us On TikTok—> https://www.tiktok.com/@metamysticsGive us a follow on Instagram—> @MetaMystics111To find Sias—> https://www.tiktok.com/@awakeningtherebisr=1&t=ZP-94TC81IJfP4Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/cult-of-conspiracy--5700337/support.

Greg Jenner is joined in the ancient world by Dr Moudhy Al-Rashid and comedian Marjolein Robertson to learn all about the famous Mesopotamian poem, the Epic of Gilgamesh. Sumerian poems about a legendary king called Gilgamesh began to be composed sometime in the third millennium, and were told and retold throughout Mesopotamia until a Babylonian scholar named Sîn-leqi-unninni wrote down what has become the standard version. The tale he recorded tells of a tyrannical king of Uruk, Gilgamesh, and the transformative journey he takes with his enemy-turned-friend (and possibly more), Enkidu. In the 3100 lines of the poem, they fight forest guardians and celestial bulls, anger the gods, and even challenge death itself. In this episode, we retell the story of Gilgamesh, exploring the history of the epic's composition, what it tells us about ancient Mesopotamian storytelling and beliefs, and how it was rediscovered in the nineteenth century, written in cuneiform on clay tablets housed in the Library of Ashurbanipal at Nineveh. We also look at the themes of companionship, community and environmental protection that are still relevant today, and ask the question: is Gilgamesh just a legend, or was he based on a real king?If you're a fan of captivating myths and legends from the ancient world, heroic kings and impossible quests, and historians decoding ancient texts, you'll love our episode on the Epic of Gilgamesh.If you want more ancient history with Dr Moudhy Al-Rashid, listen to our episodes on the Babylonians and Cuneiform. And for more from Marjolein Robertson, check out our episode on Robert Bruce.You're Dead To Me is the comedy podcast that takes history seriously. Every episode, Greg Jenner brings together the best names in history and comedy to learn and laugh about the past.Hosted by: Greg Jenner Research by: Katharine Russell Written by: Katharine Russell, Dr Emmie Rose Price-Goodfellow, Dr Emma Nagouse, and Greg Jenner Produced by: Dr Emmie Rose Price-Goodfellow and Greg Jenner Audio Producer: Steve Hankey Production Coordinator: Gill Huggett Senior Producer: Dr Emma Nagouse Executive Editor: Philip Sellars

Are there ancient "stargates" in Iran? As geopolitical tensions rise, so do the outrageous claims of hidden portals and supernatural weapons. On this episode of The Secret Teachings, host Ryan Gable deconstructs the latest viral misinformation spreading across the internet.We examine why we haven't seen "evidence" of these portals in conflict zones like Iraq or Venezuela until it serves a specific clickbait narrative. From the myth of the Iran Stargate to the hijacking of legitimate archaeological efforts labeled as "Project Resurrection," we peel back the layers of how sleazy digital exploitation uses death and chaos for social media engagement.Is there a government project aiming to bring an ancient god back to life, or is a real project to preserve antiquities being weaponized by "conspiracy" influencers? Let's be clear: the burden of proof lies on those making the claims. Tonight, we demand the evidence and expose the logic—or lack thereof—behind the modern mythology of the "Stargate" era.*The is the FREE archive, which includes advertisements. If you want an ad-free experience, you can subscribe below underneath the show description.

Talk about wild! Hearing the process and real life situations someone has to go through to discover that they could channel and then having a conversation with the entities live on the show, amazing! If you thought this podcast kept it weird, you have no idea just how weird it can get! Stay weird initiates!To Follow Us On Patreon—> https://www.patreon.com/c/MetaMysticsEmail Us!—> MetaMystics@yahoo.comSubscribe to our Youtube—> http://www.youtube.com/@MetaMysticsTo Follow Us On TikTok—> https://www.tiktok.com/@metamysticsGive us a follow on Instagram—> @MetaMystics111To find Sias—> https://www.tiktok.com/@awakeningtherebisr=1&t=ZP-94TC81IJfP4Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/meta-mystics--5795466/support.You Don't Know What You Don't Know!

Berättelsen om Gilgamesh skrevs ned på lertavlor för nästan 4.000 år sedan. Nya arkeologiska upptäckter har lett till att den största delen av eposets text nu är tillgänglig. Vad handlar den om? Forskningen har visat att eposet haft inflytande på bland annat Homeros diktning, Bibeln, Koranen och Tusen och en natt. Men vilka likheter har den?Wikipedia säger sitt om Gilgamesh-eposet. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

We get into some esoteric speculation on technology, Off world US Navy Ships, Micro Stealth Satellites, Vimana's, Canada.....   Wab Kinew's previous career as a rapper, some emails about our recent episode about the trucking disaster in Canada, the LNG shipping fiasco, Gary McKinnon and the Secret Space Program, Portals in the USA, Canadian news according to Douglas Murray, cabbage patch kids plucked out, and Canada MAID for poor.   What happens if you happen to find ancient artifacts in your yard in Canada, Hollywood knock offs, Disney psychology, black coffee theory, clip on Margaret Sanger, device tampering by spies, and the chinese lecturer predicts Iran outcome due to water.   Trust the plan side of things, Election fraud bubbling to the surface, and Carlin on saving the planet. Did Epstein freeze fusion, and what did Hillary say about Gilgamesh.   To gain access to the second half of show and our Plus feed for audio and podcast please clink the link http://www.grimericaoutlawed.ca/support.   For second half of video (when applicable and audio) go to our Substack and Subscribe. https://grimericaoutlawed.substack.com/ or to our Locals  https://grimericaoutlawed.locals.com/ or Rokfin www.Rokfin.com/Grimerica Patreon https://www.patreon.com/grimericaoutlawed   Support the show directly: https://open.spotify.com/show/2punSyd9Cw76ZtvHxMKenI?si=ImKxfMHgQZ-oshl499O4dQ&nd=1&dlsi=4c25fa9c78674de3 Watch or Listen on Spotify https://grimericacbd.com/ CBD / THC Tinctures and Gummies https://grimerica.ca/support-2/ Our Adultbrain Audiobook Podcast and Website: www.adultbrain.ca Our Audiobook Youtube Channel:  https://www.youtube.com/@adultbrainaudiobookpublishing/videos Check out our next trip/conference/meetup - Contact at the Cabin www.contactatthecabin.com Other affiliated shows: www.grimerica.ca The OG Grimerica Show Join the chat / hangout with a bunch of fellow Grimericans  Https://t.me.grimerica grimerica.ca/chats   Discord Chats Darren's book www.acanadianshame.ca Eh-List Podcast and site: https://eh-list.ca/ Eh-List YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@TheEh-List www.Rokfin.com/Grimerica Our channel on free speech Rokfin Leave a review on iTunes and/or Stitcher: https://itunes.apple.com/ca/podcast/grimerica-outlawed http://www.stitcher.com/podcast/grimerica-outlawed Sign up for our newsletter http://www.grimerica.ca/news SPAM Graham = and send him your synchronicities, feedback, strange experiences and psychedelic trip reports!! graham@grimerica.com InstaGRAM https://www.instagram.com/the_grimerica_show_podcast/  Purchase swag, with partial proceeds donated to the show www.grimerica.ca/swag Send us a postcard or letter http://www.grimerica.ca/contact/ ART - Napolean Duheme's site http://www.lostbreadcomic.com/  MUSIC Tru Northperception, Felix's Site sirfelix.bandcamp.com    Links to the stuff we chatted about: https://x.com/blondebigot11/status/2028842372524581198?s=43 https://x.com/maniaufo/status/2028407952751853698?s=43 https://x.com/redpandakoala/status/2028455023756419585?s=4 https://x.com/holden_culotta/status/2028520012890214643?s=43 https://x.com/maniaufo/status/2028374869021278261?s=43 https://x.com/benwehrman/status/2027995671568285955?s=43 https://x.com/visionaryvoid/status/2027383971139756251?s=43 https://x.com/karldharrison/status/2028197264515313800?s=43 https://x.com/wrong_speak/status/2028464018214514761?s=43 https://x.com/men_of_purpose/status/2028553428746772694?s=43 https://x.com/iluminatibot/status/2028517389554577568?s=43 https://x.com/search?q=Iran&src=trend_click&vertical=trends https://x.com/cirnosad/status/2028740886717501674?s=43 https://x.com/vigilantfox/status/2027442648886202789?s=43 https://x.com/cigsmake/status/2028908516522750173?s=43 https://x.com/cigsmake/status/2028908516522750173?s=43 https://x.com/RedPandaKoala/status/2028589365077921843?s=20 https://x.com/AshtonForbes/status/2028709537587351610?s=20 https://x.com/AshtonForbes/status/2028885265259892789?s=20 https://x.com/JeffWeniger/status/2028555327621239208?s=20 https://x.com/ShadowofEzra/status/2028586819365818631?s=20 https://x.com/chrisbrunet/status/2028077800041885711?s=20 https://x.com/Tablesalt13/status/2028112695736553675?s=20 https://x.com/SunTzusWar/status/2028114488679919871?s=20 https://x.com/The_Astral_/status/2028123298068853135?s=20 https://x.com/WarClandestine/status/2027871579070235120?s=20 https://x.com/ThoughtCrimes80/status/2027566854760173643?s=20 https://x.com/Juliedonuts/status/2027529585210900965?s=20 https://x.com/WarClandestine/status/2027528963640185127?s=20 https://x.com/MarcNixon24/status/2027470520514388138?s=20 https://x.com/Tablesalt13/status/2026847958344307020?s=20 https://x.com/libertybirb/status/2025387134794993958?s=20

Azazel, Gilgamesh and Return of Nephilim ProphecyProphecies surrounding the book of Enoch, Book of Giants, Azazel, Gilgamesh, Jubilees, Josephus, Egyptians pyramids and more! To get the audio-only podcast version of full videos and Josh Peck's blog, which includes original articles, show notes, and more, subscribe to Josh's Substack at http://joshpeck.substack.comIt is with a heavy heart that I (Nathan's father) inform you that Nathan went home to be with the Lord on Monday, Sept. 22nd, 2025. He fought an extremely rare form of cancer bravely, but in the end, his heart couldn't keep up the fight anymore. He went fast with no prolonged suffering. We want to thank all of you who have kept him in prayer. Please know that those prayers were not in vain. Our son lives with Jesus now. We are now updating this campaign to reflect our financial need for his remaining hospital bills, funeral expenses, and housing for our family. As most men, I do not enjoy asking for help. However, as most fathers and husbands can relate to, there isn't anything I won't do for my family. In light of that, I wanted to first ask all of you to pray for us. Also, because of the overwhelming expenses that inevitably come from all these things happening at the same time, if you feel led to help us financially, there's a couple different ways you can do that:GiveSendGo: http://www.GiveSendGo.com/NathanTheBravePayPal: http://PayPal.me/JoshPeckDisclosureOr send in your donation to:P.O. Box 270123Oklahoma City, OK 73137

No ‘Eclesiastes Babilônico', encontra-se um texto célebre conhecido como ‘Diálogo sobre a miséria humana', que parece ser um dos textos religiosos mais pessimistas já criados.O autor do texto reclama com uma deusa sobre os sacrifícios que tem feito e as respostas que parecem não chegar. Sua angústia é tão profunda que ele chega a invejar os animais.Ele questiona por que “o altivo leão se alimenta da melhor carne e nunca apresenta oferendas aos deuses”. Reclama que os deuses lhe deram “penúria em vez de riquezas” e que os “maus prevalecem sobre os justos”.No entanto, é visível que os antigos deuses do Oriente Médio foram cultuados por milênios, sendo a região uma das mais ricas e bem preservadas em registros arqueológicos e objetos de culto.Aqueles familiarizados com a leitura da Bíblia encontrarão muitas passagens semelhantes. Promessas que parecem não ser cumpridas, o triunfo dos maus sobre os bons, o desespero diante da aparente inutilidade das orações, lamentos por desgraças e injustiças.O que é impressionante na fé dos homens e mulheres do Oriente Médio, entre babilônios, assírios, egípcios e hebreus, incluindo judeus, islâmicos, zoroastristas e cristãos, é que a fé deles parece prescindir de provas materiais (pelom menos imediatas). Há neles uma exigência sobre-humana de fidelidade e resiliência diante das piores desgraças e da aparente indiferença dos deuses.O homem moderno pode, com certa razão, notar uma dose de fanatismo, mas eu vejo algo um pouco mais misterioso e até sobrenatural nessas pessoas.Os textos sapienciais mesopotâmicos e hebreus consideram o sofrimento inevitável, até prometido, mas reforçam a necessidade de manter a esperança até a última gota de existência, mesmo sem motivo aparente.Talvez seja por isso que o niilismo nunca encontrou terreno fértil nessas regiões, tornando-se abundante na Europa apenas quando esta se afastou da tutela do olhar cristão.Para o homem do deserto, a derrota e até mesmo a morte são secundárias no amplo plano da eternidade. O sucesso nesta vida é opcional. O maior dos heróis do Oriente Médio, Gilgamesh, foi um herói fracassado. Por que você não seria?

In this episode, John Ortberg offers what he calls “two cheers for guilt and shame.” Drawing from the book of Judges, John explores why justice matters, why moral reality is woven into the fabric of existence, and why a world without any sense of guilt or shame would not be more humane — it would be more dangerous.From the brutal story of Adoni-Bezek to the violent cycles of Judges, we see a profound truth emerge: no one ultimately gets away with injustice. As Jesus says in Luke 8:17, nothing hidden will remain hidden.John traces a major turning point in human history — what C.S. Lewis called the moral law — the moment when ancient Israel connected two ideas that had often been separated:There is one God.And that God is good.Justice is real. Accountability is real. And judgment, properly understood, is good news — especially for the oppressed.But here's the deeper turn:- Guilt and shame can either crush us… or redeem us.- Healthy guilt points out where we have done wrong so we can confess and be cleansed. Healthy shame invites us out of hiding into relationship and grace.- And ultimately, Jesus steps into the story and absorbs the consequences we could not.- “The wages of sin is death.”The sin is ours.The death is his.- The cycle of Judges is broken at the cross.Justice is upheld. Mercy is given.And condemnation does not win.

Today Pastor Stan shares a new dream from UB Ready that shows Iran will Attack the U.S. In other news, in a shocking discovery in the FOIA, an email was discovered that the Clintons “Requested documents pertaining to the resurrection chamber of Gilgamesh, the location of his body and the location of the buried Nephilim.

Today Pastor Stan shares a new dream from UB Ready that shows Iran will Attack the U.S. In other news, in a shocking discovery in the FOIA, an email was discovered that the Clintons “Requested documents pertaining to the resurrection chamber of Gilgamesh, the location of his body and the location of the buried Nephilim.

Amidst the noise and haste lies a new revelation, but can the Urantia Book save humanity during its most crucial test, or did the Revelators have something else in mind?In this episode we talk about the past spiritual epochs and the way our predecessors revelaed new truth to the young minds of a long ago age, we talk about The One Hundred teachers pre-Gilgamesh, the Adam and Eve strategy, Melchizdeks Missionaires, including Abraham, and then there was Jesus: How did they teach revelation?The past guides our path forward. Let's discuss.

Winter comes once again to an end, or something close to it — and so too does our winter mini-series, with Marina Carr (recipient of a 2017 Windham-Campbell Prize for Drama) chatting with prize director Michael Kelleher about Virginia Woolf's 1927 novel, To the Lighthouse.Marina Carr was born in 1964 and grew up in County Offaly. She graduated from UCD in 1987. Her plays include Low in the Dark, This Love Thing, Ullaloo, The Mai (Best New Play, Dublin Theatre Festival), Portia Coughlan (Susan Smith Blackburn Award), By The Bog of Cats (Irish Times/ ESB Award for Best New Play), On Raftery's Hill, Woman and Scarecrow, a version of Hecuba, and Gilgamesh. She has been Writer-in-Residence at Trinity College, the Abbey Theatre, Princeton University and was the first John McGahern Writer-in-Residence in St Patrick's College, Drumcondra/DCU. Marina Carr is a member of Aosdána and lives with her family in Dublin.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

"Darmok and Jalad at Tanagra, when the walls fell..."Tyler, Troy, MC, and Erik watch that one TNG episode... where Picard tells the story of Gilgamesh! Note: Episode first recorded back in early 2023!(Edited by Erik Slader)Join us on our next voyage: DS9 - S2E22: “The Wire” (?)Sign up for our Patreon: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.patreon.com/2Young4ThisTrek⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Talk to Us:⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Twitter ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠| ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Instagram ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠| ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Facebook⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠: @2Young4ThisTrekEmail: TooYoungforthisTrek@gmail.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Tyler:⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Twitter⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ | ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Instagram⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Troy:⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Twitter⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ | ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Instagram⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Other Podcasts: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠The Power Play-Throughs Podcast⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ & ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Best Animated Shows Ever... So Far⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Website: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠TroytlePower.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Erik:⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Twitter⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ | ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Instagram⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Other Podcast: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Epik Fails of History⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Book Series: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Epic Fails⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Website: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ErikSlader.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠MC:⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Twitter⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ | ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Instagram⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠MC also hosts BASESF.------------Music: https://www.purple-planet.comThe Network:This podcast is a production of the We Can Make This Work (Probably) Network follow us below to keep up with this show and discover our many other podcasts!⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ProbablyWork.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, it's the place for those with questionable taste!⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Twitter⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ | ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Facebook⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ | ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Instagram⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ | ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Discord⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠: @ProbablyWorkEmail: ProbablyWorkPod@gmail.com

Melissa Lavasani & Jay Kopelman join our podcast to discuss how psychedelic policy is actually moving in Washington, DC. Lavasani leads Psychedelic Medicine Coalition, a DC-based advocacy organization focused on educating federal officials and advancing legislation around psychedelic medicine. Kopelman is CEO of Mission Within Foundation, which provides scholarships for veterans and first responders seeking psychedelic-assisted therapy retreats, often outside the United States. The conversation centers on veterans, the VA, and why that system may be the first realistic federal pathway for psychedelic care. Early Themes Lavasani describes PMC's work on Capitol Hill, including hosting events that bring lawmakers, staffers, and advocates into the same room. Her focus is steady engagement. In DC, progress often happens through repeated conversations, not headlines. Kopelman shares his background as a Marine and how his own psychedelic-assisted therapy experience led him to Mission Within. The foundation has funded more than 250 scholarships for veterans and first responders seeking treatment for PTSD, mild traumatic brain injury, depression, and addiction. They connect this work to pending veteran-focused legislation and explain why the VA matters. As a closed health system, the VA can pilot programs, gather data, and refine protocols without the pressures of private healthcare markets. Core Insights A recent Capitol Hill gathering, For Veteran Society, brought together members of Congress and leaders from the psychedelic caucus. Lavasani describes candid feedback from lawmakers. The message was clear: coordinate messaging, avoid fragmentation, and move while bipartisan interest remains. Veteran healthcare is not framed as the final goal. It is a starting point. If psychedelic therapies can demonstrate safety and effectiveness within the VA, broader adoption becomes more plausible. Kopelman raises operational realities that must be addressed: Standardized safety protocols across providers Integration support, not medication alone Clear training pathways for clinicians Real-world data beyond tightly screened clinical trials They also address recent negative headlines involving ibogaine treatment abroad. Kopelman emphasizes the need for shared learning across providers, especially when adverse events occur. Lavasani argues that inconsistency within the ecosystem can slow federal confidence. Later Discussion and Takeaways The discussion widens to federal momentum around addiction and mental health. Lavasani notes that new funding initiatives signal growing openness to innovative treatment models, even if psychedelics are not named explicitly in every announcement. Both guests stress that policy moves slowly by design. Meetings, follow-ups, and relationship building often matter more than public statements. For clinicians, researchers, operators, and advocates, the takeaways are direct: Veterans are likely the first federal pathway Public education remains essential Safety standards must be shared and transparent Integration and workforce development need attention now If psychedelic medicine enters federal systems, infrastructure will determine success. Frequently Asked Questions What do Melissa Lavasani & Jay Kopelman say about VA psychedelic policy? They argue that veteran-focused legislation offers a realistic first federal pathway for psychedelic-assisted care. Is ibogaine currently available through the VA? No. They discuss ibogaine in the context of private retreats and future possibilities, not an existing VA program. Why do Melissa Lavasani & Jay Kopelman emphasize coordination? Lawmakers respond more positively when advocates present aligned messaging and clear priorities. What safety issues are discussed by Melissa Lavasani & Jay Kopelman? They highlight the need for standardized screening, monitoring, integration support, and transparent review of adverse events. Closing Melissa Lavasani & Jay Kopelman provide a grounded look at how psychedelic policy develops inside federal systems. Their message is practical: veterans may be the first lane, but long-term success depends on coordination, safety standards, and sustained engagement. Closing This episode captures a real-time view of how federal policy could shape the next phase of the psychedelic resurgence, especially through veteran-facing legislation and VA infrastructure. Melissa Lavasani & Jay Kopelman argue that coordination, public education, and shared safety standards will shape whether access expands with credibility and care. Transcript Joe Moore: [00:00:00] Hello everybody. Welcome back to Psychedelics Today. Today we have two guests, um, got Melissa Sani from Psychedelic Medicine Coalition. We got Jake Pelman from Mission Within Foundation. We're gonna talk about I bga I became policy on a recent, uh, set of meetings in Washington, DC and, uh, all sorts of other things I'm sure. Joe Moore: But thank you both for joining me. Melissa Lavasani: Thanks for having us. Jay Kopelman: Yeah, it's a pleasure. Thanks. Joe Moore: Yeah. Um, Melissa, I wanna have you, uh, jump in. First. Can you tell us a little bit about, uh, your work and what you do at PMC? Melissa Lavasani: Yeah, so Psychedelic Medicine Coalition is, um, the only DC based Washington DC based advocacy organization dedicated to the advancing the issue of psychedelics, um, and making sure the federal government has the education they need, um, and understands the issue inside out so that they can generate good policy around, around psychedelic medicines. Melissa Lavasani: [00:01:00] Uh, we. Host Hill events. We host other convenings. Our big event every year is the Federal Summit on psychedelic medicine. Um, that's going to be May 14th this year. Um, where we talk about kinda the pressing issues that need to be talked about, uh, with government officials in the room, um, so that we can incrementally move this forward. Melissa Lavasani: Um, our presence here in Washington DC is, is really critical for this issue's success because, um, when we're talking about psychedelic medicines, um, from the federal government pers perspective, you know, they are, they are the ones that are going to initiate the policies that create a healthcare system that can properly facilitate these medicines and make sure, um, patient safety is a priority. Melissa Lavasani: And there's guardrails on this. And, um, you know, there, it's, it's really important that we have. A home base for this issue in Washington DC just [00:02:00] because, uh, this is very complicated as a lot of your viewers probably understand, and, you know, this can get lost in the mix of all the other issues that, um, lawmakers in DC are focused on right now. Melissa Lavasani: And we need to keep that consistent presence here so that this continues to be a priority for members of Congress. Joe Moore: Mm. I love this. And Jay, can you tell us a bit about yourself and mission within Foundation? Jay Kopelman: Yeah, sure. Joe, thanks. Uh, I, I am the CEO of Mission within Foundation. Prior to this, most of my adult life was spent in the military as a Marine. Jay Kopelman: And I came to this. Role after having, uh, a psychedelic assisted therapy experience myself at the mission within down in Mexico, which is where pretty much we all go. Um, we are here to help [00:03:00] provide, uh, access for veterans and first responders to be able to attend psychedelic assisted therapy retreats to treat issues like mild TBI, post-traumatic stress disorder, uh, depression, sometimes addiction at, at a very low level. Jay Kopelman: Um, and, and so we've, we've been doing this for a little more than a year now and have provided 250 plus scholarships to veterans and first responders to be able to access. These retreats and these, these lifesaving medicines. Um, we're also partnered, uh, you may or may not know with Melissa at Psychedelic Medicine Coalition to help advance education and policy, specifically the innovative, uh, therapy Centers of Excellence Act [00:04:00] that Melissa has worked for a number of years on now to bring to both Houses of Congress. Joe Moore: Thank you for that. Um, so let's chat a little bit about what this event was that just, uh, went down, uh, what, what was it two weeks ago at this point? Melissa Lavasani: Yeah. Yeah. It's called For Veteran Society and it's all, um, there's a lot of dialogue on Capitol Hill about veterans healthcare and psychedelics, but where I've been frustrated is that, you know, it was just a lot of. Melissa Lavasani: Talk about what the problems are and not a lot of talk about like how we actually propel things forward. Um, so it, at that event, I thought it was really important and we had three members of Congress there, um, Morgan Latrell, who has been a champion from day one and his time in Congress, um, having gone through the experience himself, um, [00:05:00] at Mission within, um, and then the two chairs of the psychedelic caucus, uh, Lou Correa and Jack Bergman. Melissa Lavasani: And we really got down to the nitty gritty of like w like why this has taken so long and you know, what is actually happening right now? What are the possibilities and what the roadblocks are. And it was, I thought it was a great conversation. Um, we had an interesting kind of dynamic with Latres is like a very passionate about this issue in particular. Melissa Lavasani: Um, I think it was, I think it was really. A great event. And, you know, two days later, Jack Bergman introduced his new bill for the va. Um, so it was kind of like the precursor to that bill getting introduced. And we're just excited for more and more conversations about how the government can gently guide this issue to success. Joe Moore: Hmm. Yeah. [00:06:00] That's fantastic. Um, yeah, I was a little bummed I couldn't make it, but next time, I hope. But I've heard a lot of good things and, um, it's, it sounded like there was some really important messages in, in terms of like feedback from legislators. Yeah. Yeah. Could you speak to that? Melissa Lavasani: Yeah, I mean, I think when, uh, representative Latrell was speaking, he really impressed on us a couple things. Melissa Lavasani: Um, first is that, you know, they really kind of need the advocates to. Coordinate, collaborate and come up with like a, a strategic plan, you know, without public education. Um, talking to members of Congress about this issue is, is really difficult. You know, like PMC is just one organization. We're very little mission within, very little, um, you know, we're all like, kind of new in navigating, um, this not so new issue, but new to Washington DC [00:07:00] issue. Melissa Lavasani: Um, without that public education as a baseline, uh, it's, it's, you have to spend a lot of time educating members of Congress. You know, that's like one of our things is, you know, we have to, we don't wanna tell Congress what direction to go to. We wanna provide them the information so they understand it very intimately and know how to navigate through things. Melissa Lavasani: Um, and secondly. Um, he got pretty frank with us and said, you know, we've got one cha one chance at this issue. And it's like, that's, that's kind of been like my talking point since I started. PMC is like, you have a very limited window, um, when these kind of issues pop up and they're new and they're fresh and you have a lot of the veteran community coming out and talking about it. Melissa Lavasani: And there's a lot of energy there. But now is the time to really move forward, um, with some real legislation that can be impactful. Um, but, you know, we've gotta [00:08:00] be careful. We, we forget, I think sometimes those of us who are in the ecosystem forget that our level of knowledge about these medicines and a lot of us have firsthand experience, um, with these drugs and, and our own healing journeys is, um, we forget that there is a public out there that doesn't have the level of knowledge that we all have. Melissa Lavasani: And, um. We gotta make sure that we're sticking to the right elements of, of, of what needs to happen. We need to be sure that our talking points are on track and we're not getting sideways about anything and going down roads that we don't need to talk about. It's why, um, you know, PMC is very focused on, um, moving forward veteran legislation right now. Melissa Lavasani: Not because we're a veteran organization, but because we're, we see this long-term policy track here. Um, we know where we want to get [00:09:00] to, um. Um, and watching other healthcare issues kind of come up and then go through the VA healthcare system, I think it's a really unique opportunity, um, to utilize the VA as this closed system, the biggest healthcare system in the country to evaluate, uh, how psychedelics operate within systems like that. Melissa Lavasani: And, you know, before they get into, um, other healthcare systems. What do we need to fix? What do we need to pay attention to? What's something that we're paying too much attention to that doesn't necessarily need that much attention? So it's, um, it's a real opportunity to look at psychedelic medicines within a healthcare system and obviously continue to gather the data. Melissa Lavasani: Um, Bergman's Bill emerging, uh, expanding veteran access to emerging treatments. Um, not only mandates the research, it gives the VA authority for this, uh, for running trials and, and creating programs around psychedelic medicines. But also, [00:10:00] one of the great things about it, I think, is it provides an on-ramp for veterans that don't necessarily qualify for clinical trials. Melissa Lavasani: You know, I think that's one of the biggest criticisms of clinical trials is like you're cre you're creating a vacuum for people and people don't live in a vacuum. So we don't necessarily know what psychedelics are gonna look like in real life. Um, but with this expanding veteran access bill that Bergman introduced, it provides the VA an opportunity to provide this access under. Melissa Lavasani: Um, in a, in a safe container with medical supervision while collecting data, um, while ensuring that the veteran that is going through this process has the support systems that it needs. So, um, you know, I think that there's a really unique opportunity here, and like Latrell said, like, we've got one shot at this. Melissa Lavasani: We have people's attention in Congress. Um, now's the time to start acting, and let's be really considerate and thoughtful about what we're doing with it. Joe Moore: Thanks for that, Melissa and Jay, how, [00:11:00] anything to add there on kind of your takeaways from the this, uh, last visit in dc? Jay Kopelman: Yeah, I, I think that Melissa highlighted it really well and there, there were a couple other things that I, I think, you know, you could kind of tie it all together with some other issues that we face in this country, uh, and that. Jay Kopelman: Uh, representative Correa brought up as well, but one of the things I wanted to go back and say is that veterans have kind of led this movement already, right? So, so it's a, it's a good jumping off point, right? That it's something people from both sides of the aisle, from any community in America can get behind. Jay Kopelman: You know, if you think about it, uh, in World War ii, you know, we had a million people serving our population was like, not even 200 million, but now [00:12:00] we have a population of 330 million, and at any given time there might be a million people in uniform, including the Reserve and the National Guard. So it's, it, it's an easy thing to get behind this small part of the population that is willing to sign that contract. Jay Kopelman: Where you are saying, yeah, I'm going to defend my country, possibly at the risk of my l my own life. So that's the first thing. The other thing is that the VA being a closed health system, and they don't have shareholders to answer to, they can take some risks, they can be innovative and be forward thinking in the ways that some other healthcare systems can't. Jay Kopelman: And so they have a perfect opportunity to show that they truly care for their veterans, which don't, I'm not saying they don't, but this would be an [00:13:00] opportunity to show that carrot at a whole different level. Uh, it would allow them to innovate and be a leader in something as, uh, as our friend Jim Hancock will say, you know. Jay Kopelman: When he went to the Naval Academy, they had the world's best shipbuilding program. Why doesn't the VA have the world's best care program for things like TBI and PTSD, which affects, you know, 40 something percent of all veterans, right? So, so there's, there's an opportunity here for the VA to lead from the front. Jay Kopelman: Um, the, these medicines provide, you know, reasonably lasting care where it's kind of a one and done. Whereas with the current systems, the, you know, and, and [00:14:00] again, not to denigrate the VA in any way, they're doing the best job they can with the tools in their toolbox, right? But maybe it's time for a trip to Home Depot. Jay Kopelman: Let's get some new tools. And have some new ways of fixing what's broken, which is really the way of doing things. It's not, veterans aren't broken, we are who we are. Um, but it's a, it's a way to fix what isn't working. So I, I think that, you know, given there's tremendous veteran homelessness still, you know, addiction issues, all these things that do translate to the population at large are things that can be worked on in this one system, the va that can then be shown to have efficacy, have good data, have [00:15:00] good outcomes, and, and take it to the population at large. Joe Moore: Mm-hmm. Brilliant. Thanks for that. And so there was another thing I wanted to pivot to, which is some of the recent press. So we've, um, seen a little bit of press around some, um, in one instance, some bad behavior in Mexico that a FI put out Americans thrive again, put out. And then another case there was a, a recent fatality. Joe Moore: And I think, um, both are tragic. Like we shouldn't be having to deal with this at this point. Um, but there's a lot of things that got us here. Um, it's not necessarily the operator's fault entirely, um, or even at all, honestly, like some medical interventions just carry a lot of risk. Like think, think about like, uh, how risky bypass surgery was in the nineties, right? Joe Moore: Like people were dying a lot from medical interventions and um, you know, this is a major intervention, uh, ibogaine [00:16:00] and also a lot of promise. To help people quite a bit. Um, but as of right now, there's, there's risk. And part of that risk, in my opinion, comes from the inability of organizations to necessarily collaborate. Joe Moore: Like there's no kind of convening body, sitting in the middle, allowing, um, for, and facilitating really good data sharing and learnings. Um, and I don't, I don't necessarily see an organization stepping up and being the, um, the convener for that kind of work. I've heard rumors that something's gonna happen there, and I'm, I'm hopeful I'll always wanna share my opinion on that. Joe Moore: But yeah. I don't know. Jay, from your perspective, is there anything you want to kind of speak to about, uh, these two recent incidents that Americans for Iboga kind of publicized recently? Jay Kopelman: Yeah, so I, I'll echo your sentiment, of course, that these are tragic incidents. Um, and I, [00:17:00] I think that at least in the case of the death at Ambio, AMBIO has done a very good job of talking about it, right? Jay Kopelman: They've been very honest with the information that they have. And like you said, there are risks inherent to these medicines, and it's like anything else in medicine, there are going to be risks. You know, when I went through, uh, when I, when I went through chemo, you know, there were, there are risks. You know, you don't feel well, you get sick. Jay Kopelman: Um, and, and it. There are processes in place to counter that when it happens. And there are processes and, and procedures and safety protocols in place when caring for somebody going through an ibogaine [00:18:00] journey. Uh, when I did it, we had EKG echocardiogram. You're on a heart monitor the entire time they push magnesium via iv. Jay Kopelman: You have to provide a urinalysis sample to make sure that there is nothing in your system that is going to potentially harm you. During the ibogaine, they have, uh, a cardiologist who is monitoring the heart monitors throughout the ibogaine experience. So the, the safety protocols are there. I think it's, I think it's just a matter of. Jay Kopelman: Standardizing them across all, all providers, right? Like, that would be a good thing if people would talk to one another. Um, as, as in any system, right? You've gotta have [00:19:00] some collaboration. You've gotta have standardization, you know, so, you know, they're not called standard operating procedures for nothing. Jay Kopelman: That means that in a, you know, in a given environment, everybody does things the same way. It's true in Navy and Marine Corps, air Force, army Aviation, they have standard operating procedures for every single aircraft. So if you fly, let's say the F 35 now, right? Because it's flown by the Navy, the Marine Corps, and the Air Force. Jay Kopelman: The, the emergency procedures in that airplane are standardized across all three services, so you should have the same, or, you know, with within a couple of different words, the same procedures and processes [00:20:00] across all the providers, right? Like maybe in one document you're gonna change, happy to glad and small dog to puppy, but it's still pretty much the, the same thing. Jay Kopelman: And as a service that provides scholarships to people to go access these medicines and go to these retreats, you know, my criteria is that the, this provider has to be safe. Number one, safety's paramount. It's always gotta be very safe. It should, it has to be effective. And you know, once you have those two things in place, then I have a comfort level saying, okay, yeah, we'll work with this provider. Jay Kopelman: But until those standardized processes are in place, you'll probably see these one-off things. I mean, some providers have been doing this longer than others and have [00:21:00] really figured out, you know, they've, they've cracked the code and, you know, sharing that across the spectrum would be good. Um, but just when these things happen, having a clearing house, right, where everybody can come together and talk about it, you know, like once the facts are known because. Jay Kopelman: To my knowledge, we still don't know all the facts. Like as, you know, as horrible as this is, you still have to talk about like an, has an autopsy been performed? What was found in the patient's system? You know, there, there are things there that we don't know. So we need to, we need to know that before we can start saying, okay, well this is how we can fix that, because we just don't know. Jay Kopelman: And, you know, to their credit, you know, Amio has always been safe to, to the, to the best of my knowledge. You know, I, [00:22:00] I haven't been to Ambio myself, but people that I have worked with have been there. They have observed, they have seen the process. They believe it's safe, and I trust their opinion because they've seen it elsewhere as well. Jay Kopelman: So yeah, having, having that one place where we can all come together when this happens, it, it's almost like it should be mandatory. In the military when there's a training accident, we, you know, we would have to have what's called a safety standout. And you don't do that again for a little while until you figure out, okay, how are we going to mitigate that happening again? Jay Kopelman: Believe me, you can go overboard and we don't want to do that. Like, we don't wanna just stop all care, but maybe stop detox for a week and then come back to it. [00:23:00] Joe Moore: Yeah. A dream would be, let's get like the, I don't know, 10, 20 most popular, uh, or well-known operators together somewhere and just do like a three day debrief. Joe Moore: Hey, everybody, like, here's what we see. Let's work on this together. You know how normal medicine works. And this is, it's hard because this is not necessarily, um, something people feel safe about in America talking about 'cause it's illicit here. Um, I don't understand necessarily how the operations, uh, relate to each other in Mexico, but I think that's something to like the public should dig into. Joe Moore: Like, what, what is this? And I, I'll start digging into that. Um, I, I asked a question recently of somebody like, is there some sort of like back channel signal everybody's using and there's no clear Yes. You know? Um, I think it would be good. That's just a [00:24:00] start, you know, that's like, okay, we can actually kind of say hi and watch out for this to each other. Jay Kopelman: It's not like we don't all know one another, right? Joe Moore: Yes. Jay Kopelman: Like at least three operators we're represented. At the Aspen Ibogaine meeting. So like that could be, and I think there was a panel kind of loosely related to this during Aspen Ibogaine meeting, but Joe Moore: mm-hmm. Jay Kopelman: It, you know, have a breakout where the operators can go sit down and kind of compare notes. Joe Moore: Right. Yeah. Melissa, do you have any, uh, comments on this thread here? And I, I put you on mute if you didn't see that. Um, Melissa Lavasani: all right, I'm off mute. Um, yeah, I think that Jay's hits the nail on the head with the collaboration thing. Um, I think that it's just a [00:25:00] problem across the entire ecosystem, and I think that's just a product of us being relatively new and upcoming field. Melissa Lavasani: Um, uh, it's a product of, you know. Our fundraising community is really small, so organizations feel like they are competing for the same dollars, even though their, their goals are all the same, they have different functions. Um, I think with time, I mean, let's be honest, like if we don't start collaborating and, and the federal government's moving forward, the federal government's gonna coordinate for us. Melissa Lavasani: And not, that might not necessarily be a bad thing, but, you know, we understand this issue to a whole other level that the federal government doesn't, and they're not required to understand it deeply. They just need to know how to really move forward with it the proper way. Um, but I think that it. It's really essential [00:26:00] that we all have this come together moment here so we can avoid things. Melissa Lavasani: Uh, I mean, no one's gonna die from bad advocacy. So like I've, I have a bit of an easier job. Um, but it can a, a absolutely stall efforts, um, to move things forward in Washington DC when, um, one group is saying one thing, another group is saying another thing, like, we're not quite at a point yet where we can have multiple lines of conversation and multiple things moving forward. Melissa Lavasani: Um, you know, for PMC, it's like, just let's get the first thing across the finish line. And we think that is, um, veteran healthcare. And, um, I know there's plenty of other groups out there that, that want the same thing. So, you know, I always, the reason why I put on the Federal Summit last year was I kind of hit my breaking point with a lack of collaboration and I wanted to just bring everyone in the same room and say like, all right, here are the things that we need to talk about. Melissa Lavasani: And I think the goal for this year is, um. To bring people in the same room and say, we talked about [00:27:00] we scratched the surface last year and this is where we need to really put our efforts into. And this is where the opportunities are. Um, I think that is going to, that's going to show the federal government if we can organize ourselves, that they need to take this issue really seriously. Melissa Lavasani: Um, I don't think we've done a great job at that thus far, but I think there's still plenty of time for us to get it together. Um, and I'm hoping with these two, uh, VA bills that are in the house right now and Senate is, is putting together their version of these two bills, um, so that they can move in tandem with each other. Melissa Lavasani: I think that, you know, there's an opportunity here for. Us to show the federal government as an ecosystem, Hey, we, we are so much further ahead and you know, this is what we've organized and here's how we can help you, um, that would make them buy into this issue a bit more and potentially move things forward faster. Melissa Lavasani: Uh, at this point in time, it's, I think that, [00:28:00] you know, psychedelics aren't necessarily the taboo thing that they, they used to be, but there's certainly places that need attention. Um, there's certainly conversations that need to be had, and like I said, like PMC is just one organization that can do this. Um, we can certainly organize and drive forward collaboration, but I, like we alone, cannot cover all this ground and we need the subject matter experts to collaborate with us so we can, you know, once we get in the door, we wanna bring the experts in to talk to these officials about it. Melissa Lavasani: So I. I, I really want listeners to really think about us as a convener of sorts when it comes to federal policy. Um, and you know, I think when, like for example, in the early eighties, a lot of people have made comparisons to the issue of psychedelics to the issue of AIDS research and how you have in a subject matter that's like extremely taboo and a patient population that the government [00:29:00] quite honestly didn't really care about in the early eighties. Melissa Lavasani: But what they did as an ecosystem is really organized themselves, get very clear on what they wanted the federal government to do. And within a matter of a couple years, uh, AIDS research funding was a thing that was happening. And what that, what that did was that ripple effect turned that into basically finding new therapies for something that we thought was a death, death sentence before. Melissa Lavasani: So I think. We just need to look at things in the past that have been really successful, um, and, and try to take the lessons from all of these issues and, and move forward with psychedelics. Joe Moore: Love that. And yes, we always need to be figuring out efficient approaches and where it has been successful in the past is often, um, an opportunity to mimic and, and potentially improve on that. Melissa Lavasani: Yeah. Jay Kopelman: One, one thing I think it's important to add to this part of the conversation is that, [00:30:00] you know, Melissa pointed out there are a number of organizations that are essentially doing the same thing. Jay Kopelman: Um, you know, I like to think we do things a little bit differently at Mission within Foundation in that we don't target any one specific type of service member. We, we work with all veterans. We work with first responders, but. What that leads to is that there are, as far as I've seen, nothing but good intentioned people in this space. Jay Kopelman: You know, people who really care about their patient population, they care about healing, they are trying to do a good job, and more importantly, they're trying to do good. Right? It, it, I think they all see the benefit down the road that this has, [00:31:00] pardon me, not just for veterans, but for society as a whole. Jay Kopelman: And, and ultimately that's where I would like to see this go. You know, I, I would love to see the VA take this. Take up this mantle and, and run with it and provide great data, great outcomes. You know, we are doing some data collection ourselves at Mission within foundation, albeit anecdotal based on surveys given before and after retreats. Jay Kopelman: But we're also working with, uh, Greg Fonzo down at UT Austin on a brain study he's doing that will have 40 patients in it when it's all said and done. And I think we have two more guys to put through that. Uh, and then we'll hit the 40. So there, there's a lot of good here that's being done by some really, really good people who've been doing this for a long time [00:32:00] and want to want nothing more than to, to see this. Jay Kopelman: Come to, come full circle so that we can take care of many, many, many people. Um, you know, like I say, I, I wanna work myself out of a job here. I, I just, I would love to see this happen and then I, you know, I don't have to send guys to Mexico to do this. They can go to their local VA and get the care that they need. Jay Kopelman: Um, but one thing that I don't think we've touched on yet, or regarding that is that the VA isn't designed for that. So it's gonna be a pretty big lift to get the right types of providers into the va with the knowledge, right, with the institutional knowledge of how this should be done, what is safe, what is effective, um, and then it, it's not just providing these medicines to [00:33:00] people and sending them home. Jay Kopelman: You don't just do that, you've gotta have the right therapists on the backend who can provide the integration coaching to the folks who are receiving these medicines. And I'm not just talking, I bga, even with MDMA and psilocybin, you should have a proper period of integration. It helps you to understand how this is going to affect you, what it, what the experience really meant, you know, because it's very difficult sometimes to just interpret it on your own. Jay Kopelman: And so what the experience was and what it meant to you. And, and so it will take some time to spin all that up. But once it's, once it's in place, you know, the sky's the limit. I think. Joe Moore: Kinda curious Jay, about what's, what's going on with Ibogaine at the federal level. Is there anything at VA right now? [00:34:00] Jay Kopelman: At the va? No, not with ibogaine. And, you know, uh, we, we send people specifically for IBOGAINE and five MEO, right? And, and so that, that doesn't preclude my interest in seeing this legislation passed, right? Jay Kopelman: Because it, it will start with something like MDMA or psilocybin, but ultimately it could grow to iboga, right? It the think about the cost savings at, at the va, even with psilocybin, right? Where you could potentially treat somebody with a very inexpensive dose of psilocybin or, or iboga one time, and then you, you don't have to treat them again. Jay Kopelman: Now, if I were, uh, you know, a VA therapist who's not trained in psychedelic trauma therapy. I might be worried [00:35:00] about job security, but it's like with anything, right? Like ultimately it will open pathways for new people to get that training or the existing people to get that training and, and stay on and do that work. Jay Kopelman: Um, which only adds another arrow to their quiver as far as I'm concerned, because this is coming and we're gonna need the people. It's just like ai, right? Like ai, yeah. Some people are gonna lose some jobs initially, and that's unfortunate. But productivity ultimately across all industries will increase and new jobs will be created as a result of that. Jay Kopelman: I mean, I was watching Squawk Box one morning. They were talking about the AI revolution and how there's gonna be a need for 500,000 electricians to. Build these systems that are going to work with the AI [00:36:00] supercomputers and, and so, Joe Moore: mm-hmm. Jay Kopelman: Where, where an opportunity may be lost. I think several more can be gained going forward. Melissa Lavasani: And just to add on what Jay just said there, there's nothing specific going on with Ibogaine at, at the va, but I think this administration is, is taking a real look at addiction in particular. Uh, they just launched, uh, a new initiative, uh, that's really centered on addiction treatments called the Great American Recovery. Melissa Lavasani: And, um, they're dedicating a hundred million dollars towards treating addiction as like a chronic treatable disease and not necessarily a law enforcement issue. So, um, in that initiative there will be federal grant programs for prevention and treatment and recovery. And, um, while this isn't just for psychedelic medicines, uh, I think it's a really great opportunity for the discussion of psychedelics to get elevated to the White House. Melissa Lavasani: Um, [00:37:00] there's also, previous to this announcement last week from the White House, there's been a hundred million dollars that was dedicated at, um, at ARPA h, which is. The advanced research projects, uh, agency for healthcare, um, and that is kind of an agency that's really focused on forward looking, um, treatments and technologies, uh, for, um, a, a whole slew of. Melissa Lavasani: Of issues, but this a hundred million dollars is dedicated to mental health and addiction. So there's a lot of opportunity there as well. So we, while I think, you know, some people are talking about, oh, we need a executive order on Iboga, it's like, well, you know, the, the president is thinking, um, about, you know, what issues can land with his, uh, voting block. Melissa Lavasani: And I think it's, I don't think we necessarily need a specific executive order on Iboga to call this a success. It's like, let's look at what, [00:38:00] um, what's just been announced from the White House. They're, they're all in on. Thinking creatively and finding, uh, new solutions for this. And this is kind of, this aligns with, um, HHS secretaries, uh, Robert F. Melissa Lavasani: Kennedy Junior's goals when he took on this, this role of Health Secretary. Um, addiction has been a discussion that, you know, he has personal, um, a personal tie to from his own experience. And, um, I think when this administration started, there was so much like fervor around the, the dialogue of like, everyone's talking about psychedelics. Melissa Lavasani: It was Secretary Kennedy, it was, uh, secretary Collins at the va. It was FDA Commissioner Marty Macari. And I think that there's like a lot of undue frustration within folks 'cause um, you don't necessarily snap your fingers and change happens in Washington dc This is not the city for that. And it's intentionally designed to move slow so that we can avoid really big mistakes. Melissa Lavasani: Um. [00:39:00] I think we're a year into this administration and these two announcements are, are pretty huge considering, um, you know, the, we, there are known people within domestic policy council that don't, aren't necessarily supportive of psychedelic medicine. So there's a really amazing progress here, and frustrating as it might be to, um, just be waiting for this administration to make some major move. Melissa Lavasani: I think they are making major moves like for Washington, DC These, these are major moves and we just gotta figure out how we can, um, take these initiatives and apply them to the issue of psychedelic medicines. Joe Moore: Thanks, Melissa. Um, yeah, it is, it is interesting like the amount of fervor there was at the beginning. You know, we had, uh. Kind of one of my old lawyers, Matt Zorn, jumped in with the administration. Right. And, um, you know, it was, uh, really cool to [00:40:00] see and hopeful how much energy was going on. It's been a little quiet, kind of feels like a black box a little bit, but I, you know, there was, Melissa Lavasani: that's on me. Melissa Lavasani: Maybe I, we need to be more out in public about like, what's actually happening, because I feel like, like day in and day out, it's just been, you gotta just mm-hmm. Like have that constant beat with the government. Mm-hmm. And, um, it's, it's, it's not the photo ops on the hill, it's the conversations that you have. Melissa Lavasani: It's the dinner parties you go to, it's the fundraisers you attend, you know? Mm-hmm. That's why I, I kind of have to like toot my own horn with PCs. Like, we need to be present here at, at not only on the Hill, not only at the White House, but kind of in the ecosystem of Washington DC itself. There's, it's, there are like power players here. Melissa Lavasani: There are people that are connected that can get things done, like. I mean, the other last week we had a big snow storm. I walked over to my friend's house, um, to have like a little fire sesh with them and our kids, and his next door neighbor came over. He was a member of Congress. I talked about the VA bills, like [00:41:00] we're reaching out to his office now, um, to get them, um, up to speed and hopefully get their co-sponsorship for, uh, the two VA bills. Melissa Lavasani: So, I mean, it, the little conversations you have here are just as important as the big ones with the photo ops. So, um, it, it's, it's really like, you know, building up that momentum and, and finding that time where you can really strike and make something happen. Joe Moore: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Jay, anything to add there? Jay Kopelman: Yeah, I was just gonna say that, you know, I, I, I think the fervor is still there, right? Jay Kopelman: But real life happens. Melissa Lavasani: Yes, Jay Kopelman: yes. And gets in the way, right? So, Melissa Lavasani: yeah, Jay Kopelman: I, I can't imagine how many issues. Secretary Kennedy has every day much less the president. Like there's so many things that they are dealing with on a daily basis, right? It, we, we just have to work to be the squeaky wheel in, in the right way, right. Jay Kopelman: [00:42:00] With the, with the right information at the right time. Like just inundating one of these organizations with noise, it's then it be with Informa, it just becomes noise, right? It it, it doesn't help. So when we have things to say that are meaningful and impactful, we do, and Melissa does an amazing job of that. Jay Kopelman: But, you know, it, it takes time. You know, it's, you know, we're not, this is, this is like turning an aircraft carrier, not a ski boat. Melissa Lavasani: Yeah, Joe Moore: yeah, absolutely. Um, and. It's, it's understandably frustrating, I think for the public and the psychedelic public in particular because we see all this hope, you know, we continue to get frustrated at politics. It's nothing new, right? Um, and we, we wanna see more people get well immediately. [00:43:00] And I, I kind of, Jay from the veteran perspective, I do love the kind of loud voices like, you're making me go to Mexico for this. Joe Moore: I did that and you're making me leave the country for the thing that's gonna fix me. Like, no way. And barely a recognition that this is a valid treatment. You know, like, you know, that is complicated given how medicine is structured here domestically. But it's also, let's face the facts, like the drug war kind of prevented us from being able to do this research in the first place. Joe Moore: You know? Thanks Nixon. And like, how do we actually kind of correct course and say like, we need to spend appropriately on science here so we can heal our own people, including veterans and everybody really. It's a, it's a dire situation out there. Jay Kopelman: Yeah. It, it really is. Um, you know, we were talking briefly about addicts, right? Jay Kopelman: And you know, it's not sexy. People think of addicts as people who are weak-minded, [00:44:00] right? They don't have any self-control. Um, but, but look at, look at the opioid crisis, right? That Brian Hubbard was fighting against in Kentucky for all those years. That that was something that was given to the patient by a doctor that they then became dependent on, and a lot of people died from that. Jay Kopelman: And, and so you, you know, it's, I I don't think it's fair to just put all addicts in a box. Just like it's not fair to put all veterans in a box. Just like it's not fair for doctors, put all their patients in a box. We're individuals. We, we have individual needs. Our, our health is very individual. Like, I, I don't think I should be put in the same box as every other 66-year-old that my doctor sees. Jay Kopelman: It's not fair. [00:45:00] You know, if you, if you took my high school classmates and put us all in a photo, we're all gonna have different needs, right? Like, some look like they're 76, not 66. Some look like they're 56. Not like they're, we, we do things differently. We live our lives differently. And the same is true of addicts. Jay Kopelman: They come to addiction from different places. Not everybody decides they want to just try heroin at a party, and all of a sudden they're addicted. It happens in, in different ways, you know, and the whole fentanyl thing has been so daggum nefarious, right? You know, pushing fentanyl into marijuana. Jay Kopelman: Somebody's smoking a joint and all of a sudden they're addicted to fentanyl or they die. Melissa Lavasani: I think we're having a, Jay Kopelman: it's, it's just not fair to, to say everybody in this pot is the same, or everybody in this one is the same. We have [00:46:00] to look at it differently. Joe Moore: Yeah. I like to zoom one level out and kind of talk about, um, just how hurt we are as a country, as a world really, but as a country specifically, and how many people are out of work for so many. Joe Moore: Difficult reasons and away from their families for so many kind of tragic reasons. And if we can get people back to their families and back to work, a lot of these things start to self-correct, but we have to like have those interventions where we can heal folks and, and get them back. Um, yeah. And you know, everything from trauma, uh, in childhood, you know, adulthood, combat, whatever it is. Joe Moore: Like these things can put people on the sidelines. And Jay, to your point, like you get knee surgery and all of a sudden you're, you know, two years later you're on the hunt for Fentanyl daily. You know, that's tough. It's really tough. Carl Hart does a good job talking about this kind of addiction pipeline and [00:47:00] a few others do as well. Joe Moore: But it's just, you know, kind of putting it in a moral failure bucket. It's not great. I was chatting with somebody about, um, veterans, it's like you come back and you're like, what's gonna make me feel okay right now? And it's not always alcohol. Um, like this is the first thing that made me feel okay, because there's not great treatments and there's, there's a lot of improvements in this kind of like bringing people back from the field that needs to happen. Joe Moore: In my opinion. I, it seems to be shared by a lot of people, but yeah, there's, it's, it's, IGA is gonna be great. It's gonna be really important. I really can't wait for it to be at scale appropriately, but there's a lot of other things we need to fix too, um, so that we can just, you know, not have so many people we need to, you know, spend so much money healing. Joe Moore: Mm-hmm. Jay Kopelman: Yeah. You ahead with that. We don't need the president to sign an executive order to automatically legalize Ibogaine. Right. But it would be nice if he would reschedule it so that [00:48:00] then then researchers could do this research on a larger scale. You know, we could, we could now get some real data that would show the efficacy. Jay Kopelman: And it could be done in a safe environment, you know? And, and so that would be, do Joe Moore: you have any kind of figures, like, like, I've been talking about this for a while, Jay. Like, does it drop the cost a lot of doing research when we deschedule things? Jay Kopelman: I, I would imagine so, because it'll drop the cost of accessing the medicines that are being researched. Jay Kopelman: Right? You, you would have buy-in from more organizations. You know, you might even have a pharma company that comes into this, you know, look at j and j with the ketamine, right? They have, they have a nasal spray version of ketamine that's doing very well. I mean, it's probably their, their biggest revenue [00:49:00] provider for them right now. Jay Kopelman: And, and so. You know, you, it would certainly help and I think, I think it would lower costs of research to have something rescheduled rather than being schedule one. You know it, people are afraid to take chances when you're talking about Schedule one Melissa Lavasani: labs or they just don't have the money to research things that are on Schedule one. Melissa Lavasani: 'cause there's so much in an incredible amount of red tape that you have to go through and, and your facility has to be a certain way and how you contain those, uh, medicines. Oh, researching has to be in a specific container and it's just very cumbersome to research schedule one drugs. So absolutely the cost would go down. Melissa Lavasani: Um, but Joe Moore: yeah, absolutely. Less safes. Melissa Lavasani: Yeah. Joe Moore: Yes. Less uh, Melissa Lavasani: right. Joe Moore: Locked. Yeah. Um, it'll be really interesting when that happens. I'm gonna hold out faith. That we can see some [00:50:00] movement here. Um, because yeah, like why make healing more expensive than it needs to be? I think like that's potentially a protectionist move. Joe Moore: Like, I'm not, I'm not here yet, but, um, look at AbbVie's, uh, acquisition of the Gilgamesh ip. Mm-hmm. Like that's a really interesting move. I think it was $1.2 billion. Mm-hmm. So they're gonna wanna protect that investment. Um, and it's likely going to be an approved medication. Like, I don't, I don't see a world in which it's not an approved medication. Joe Moore: Um, you know, I don't know a timeline, I would say Jay Kopelman: yeah. Joe Moore: Less than six years, just given how much cash they've got. But who knows, like, I haven't followed it too closely. So, and that's an I bga derivative to be clear, everybody, um mm-hmm. If you're not, um, in, in the loop on that, which is hopeful, you know? Joe Moore: Mm-hmm. But I don't know what the efficacy is gonna be with that compared to Ibogaine and then we have to talk about the kind of proprietary molecule stuff. Um, there's like a whole bunch of things that are gonna go on here, and this is one of the reasons why I'm excited about. Federal involvement [00:51:00] because we might actually be able to have some sort of centralized manufacturer, um, or at least the VA could license three or four generic manufacturers per for instance, and that way prices aren't gonna be, you know, eight grand a dose or whatever. Joe Moore: You know, it's, Jay Kopelman: well, I think it's a very exciting time in the space. You know, I, I think that there's the opportunity for innovation. There is the opportunity for collaboration. There's the opportunity for, you know, long-term healing at a very low cost. You know, that we, we have the highest healthcare cost per capita in the world right here in the us. Jay Kopelman: And, and yet we are not the number one health system in the world. So to me, that doesn't add up. So we need to figure out a way to start. Bringing costs down for a lot of people and [00:52:00] at the same time increasing, increasing outcomes. Joe Moore: Absolutely. Yeah. There's a lot of possible outcome improvements here and, and you know, everything from relapse rates, like we hear often about people leaving a clinic and they go and overdose when they get home. Tragically, too common. I think there's everything from, you know, I'm Jay, I'm involved in an organization called the Psychedelics and Pain Association. Joe Moore: We look at chronic pain very seriously, and IGA is something we are really interested in. And if. We could have better, you know, research, there better outcome measures there. Um, you know, perhaps we can have less people on opioids to begin with from chronic pain conditions. Um, Jay Kopelman: yeah, I, I might be due for another Ibogaine journey then, because I deal with chronic pain from Jiujitsu, but, Joe Moore: oh gosh, let's Jay Kopelman: talk Joe Moore: later. Jay Kopelman: That's self inflicted. Some people would say take a month off, but Melissa Lavasani: yeah, Jay Kopelman: I'm [00:53:00] not, I'm not that smart. Joe Moore: Yeah. Um, but you know, this, uh, yeah, this whole thing is gonna be really interesting to see how it plays out. I'm endlessly hopeful pull because I'm still here. Right. I, I've been at this for almost 10 years now, very publicly, and I think we are seeing a lot of movement. Joe Moore: It's not always what we actually wanna see, but it is movement nonetheless. You know, how many people are writing on this now than there were before? Right. You know, we, we have people in New York Times writing somewhat regularly about psychedelics and. Even international media is covering it. What do we have legalization in Australia somewhat recently for psilocybin and MDMA, Czech Republic. Joe Moore: I think Germany made some moves recently. Mm-hmm. Um, really interesting to see how this is gonna just keep shifting. Um Jay Kopelman: mm-hmm. Joe Moore: And I think there's no way that we're not gonna have prescription psychedelics in three years in the United States. It pro probably more like a [00:54:00] year and a half. I don't know. Do you, are you all taking odds? Melissa Lavasani: Yeah. I mean, I think Jay Kopelman: I, I gotta check Cal sheet, see what they're saying. Melissa Lavasani: I think it's safe to say, I mean, this could even come potentially the end of this year, I think, but definitely by the end of 2027, there's gonna be at least one psychedelic that's FDA approved. Joe Moore: Yeah. Yeah. Melissa Lavasani: If you're not counting Ketamine. Joe Moore: Right. Jay Kopelman: I, I mean, I mean it mm-hmm. It, it doesn't make sense that it. Shouldn't be or wouldn't be. Right. The, we've seen the benefits. Mm-hmm. We know what they are. It's at a very low cost, but you have to keep in mind that these things, they need to be done with the right set setting and container. Right. And, and gotta be able to provide that environment. Jay Kopelman: So, but I would, I would love, like I said, I'd love to work myself out of a job here and see this happen, not just for our veterans, [00:55:00] but for everybody. Joe Moore: Mm-hmm. Um, so Melissa, is there a way people can get involved or follow PMC or how can they support your work at PMC? Melissa Lavasani: Yeah, I mean, follow us in social media. Melissa Lavasani: Um, our two biggest platforms are LinkedIn and Instagram. Um, I'm bringing my newsletter back because I'm realizing, um, you know, there is a big gap in, in kind of like the knowledge of Washington DC just in general. What's happening here, and I think, you know, part of PC's value is that we're, we are plugged into conversations that are being had, um, here in the city. Melissa Lavasani: And, you know, we do get a little insight. Um, and I think that that would really quiet a lot of, you know, the, a lot of noise that, um, exists in the, our ecosystem. If, if people just had some clarity on like, what's actually happening or happening here and what are the opportunities and, [00:56:00] um, where do we need more reinforcement? Melissa Lavasani: Um, and, and also, you know, as we're putting together public education campaign, you know. My, like, if I could get everything I wanted like that, that campaign would be this like multi-stakeholder collaborative effort, right? Where we're covering all the ground that we need to cover. We're talking to the patient groups, we're talking to traditional mental health organizations, we're talking to the medical community, we're talking to the general population. Melissa Lavasani: I think that's like another area that we, we just seem to be, um, lacking some effort in. And, you know, ultimately the veteran story's always super compelling. It pulls on your heartstrings. These are our heroes, um, of our country. Like that, that is, that is meaningful. But a lot of the veteran population is small and we need the, like a, the just.[00:57:00] Melissa Lavasani: Basic American living in middle America, um, understanding what psychedelics are so that in, in, in presenting to them the stories that they can relate to, um, because that's how you activate the public and you activate the public and you get them to see what's happening in these clinical trials, what the data's been saying, what the opportunities are with psychedelics, and then they start calling their members of Congress and saying, Hey, there is this. Melissa Lavasani: Bill sitting in Congress and why haven't you signed onto it? And that political pressure, uh, when used the right way can be really powerful. So, um, I think, you know, now we're at this really amazing moment where we have a good amount of congressional offices that are familiar enough with psychedelics that they're willing to move on it. Melissa Lavasani: Um, there's another larger group, uh, that is familiar with psychedelics and will assist and co-sponsor legislation, but there's still so many offices that we haven't been able to get to just 'cause like we don't have all the time in the world and all the manpower in the world to [00:58:00] do it. But, you know, that is one avenue is like the advocates can speak to the, the lawmakers, the experts speak to the lawmakers, and we not, we want the public engaged in this, you know, ultimately, like that's. Melissa Lavasani: Like the best form of harm reduction is having an informed public. So we are not, they're not seeing these media headlines of like, oh, this miracle cure that, um, saved my family. It's like, yes, that can happen psychedelics. I mean, person speaking personally, psychedelics did save my family. But what you miss out of that story is the incredible amount of work I put into myself and put into my mental health to this day to maintain, um, like myself, my, my own agency and like be the parent that I wanna be and be the spouse that I wanna be. Melissa Lavasani: So, um, we, we need to continue to share these stories and we need to continue to collaborate to get this message out because we're all, we're all in the same boat right now. We all want the same things. We want patients to have safe and [00:59:00] affordable access to psychedelic assisted care. Um, and, uh. We're just in the beginning here, so, um, sign up for our newsletter and we can sign up on our website and then follow us on social media. Melissa Lavasani: And, um, I anticipate more and more events, um, happening with PMC and hopefully we can scale up some of these events to be much more public facing, um, as this issue grows. So, um, I'm really excited about the future and I'm, I've been enjoying this partnership with Mission Within. Jay is such a professional and, and it really shows up when he needs to show up and, um, I look forward to more of that in the future. Joe Moore: Fantastic. And Jay, how can people follow along and support mission within Foundation? Jay Kopelman: Yeah, again, social media is gonna be a good way to do that. So we, we are also pretty heavily engaged on LinkedIn and on Instagram. Um, I do [01:00:00] share, uh, a bit of my own stuff as well. On social media. So we have social media pages for Mission within Foundation, and we have a LinkedIn page for mission within foundation. Jay Kopelman: I have my own profiles on both of those as well where people can follow along. Um, one of the other things you know that would probably help get more attention for this is if the general public was more aware of the numbers of professional athletes who are also now pursuing. I began specifically to help treat their traumatic brain injuries and the chronic traumatic encephalopathy that they've, uh, suffered as a result of their time in professional sports or even college sports. Jay Kopelman: And, you know. I people worship these athletes, and I [01:01:00] think that if more of them, like Robert Gall, were more outspoken about these treatments and the healing properties that they've provided them, that it would get even more attention. Um, I think though what Melissa said, you know, I don't wanna parrot anything she just said because she said it perfectly Right. Jay Kopelman: And I'd just be speaking to hear myself talk. Um, but being collaborative the way that we are with PMC and with Melissa is I think, the way to move the needle on this overall. And like she said, if she could get more groups involved in, in these discussions, it would, it would do wonders for us. Joe Moore: Well, thank you both so much for your hard work out there. I always appreciate it when people are showing up and doing this important, [01:02:00] sometimes boring and tedious, but nevertheless sometimes, sometimes exciting work. And um, so yeah, just thank you both and thank you both for showing up here to psychedelics today to join us and I hope we can continue to support you all in the future. Jay Kopelman: Thank you, Joe. Thank you, Joe. It's a pleasure being with you today and with Melissa, of course, always Melissa Lavasani: appreciate the time and space. Joe Moore: Thanks.  

Welcome to Day 2801 of Wisdom-Trek, and thank you for joining me. This is Guthrie Chamberlain, Your Guide to Wisdom – Theology Thursday – Ancient Kings and Giants: Were the Sumerian Rulers the Nephilim? Wisdom-Trek Podcast Script - Day 2801 Welcome to Wisdom-Trek with Gramps!   I am Guthrie Chamberlain, and we are on Day 2801 of our Trek.   The Purpose of Wisdom-Trek is to create a legacy of wisdom, to seek out discernment and insights, and to boldly grow where few have chosen to grow before. Our current series of Theology Thursday lessons is written by theologian and teacher John Daniels. I have found that his lessons are short, easy to understand, doctrinally sound, and applicable to all who desire to learn more of God's Word. John's lessons can be found on his website   theologyinfive.com.   Today's lesson is titled  Ancient Kings and Giants: Were the Sumerian Rulers the Nephilim? In the earliest layers of Mesopotamian literature, the Sumerian King List stands as a remarkable record of legendary rulers. These kings, beginning with Alulim of Eridu, are said to have reigned for tens of thousands of years. Alulim ruled for Twenty-Eight Thousand, Eight Hundred years, while others, such as En-men-lu-ana of Bad-tibira, are credited with reigns of Forty-Three Thousand Two Hundred years. The list presents eight antediluvian kings in total, whose rule was said to have lasted for Two Hundred Forty-One Thousand, Two-Hundred years before the heavens brought a great flood. These numbers are not historical in the modern sense. They are symbolic and rooted in the Sumerian sacred use of numbers, especially the sexagesimal base-sixty system. Lifespans were often structured as multiples of Three Thousand, Six Hundred, a unit known as a sar. The theological point is clear. Kingship was believed to have descended from heaven, and these early rulers were seen not merely as political figures but as mediators between gods and mortals. Their reigns reflect divine favor, cosmic order, and a time when humans stood closer to the divine realm. The flood marks a dividing line in the narrative. After it, reigns become shorter and more grounded. The mythic age gives way to something closer to recognizable history. Cities shift, dynasties rise and fall, and the divine distance from humanity becomes more evident. What survives is a memory of a time when the lines between human and divine were blurred, when kings were more than men, and when the age before the flood carried an aura of sacred timelessness. The First Segment is: Echoes from Akkadian and Babylonian Tradition. The Akkadian-speaking cultures of Babylon and Assyria preserved an expanded version of the Sumerian memory in two major works, the Atrahasis Epic and the Epic of Gilgamesh. These texts also recall a time before the flood, inhabited by extraordinary beings, divine-human figures, and a collapse of order that led to judgment. In the Atrahasis Epic, the gods create humans to relieve themselves of labor, but humanity quickly multiplies and becomes noisy and disruptive. Enlil, the chief god, decides to destroy them. A series of plagues and famines fails to work, so a flood is sent to wipe out the human race. The god Ea (or Enki) warns Atrahasis, a righteous man, who builds a boat to survive. After the flood, humanity is restructured and reduced, and a new social and spiritual order is established. The Epic of...

Partez à la découverte de l'une des plus anciennes épopées de l'humanité : l'épopée de Gilgamesh. Franck Ferrand nous plonge dans cette fascinante histoire vieille de plus de 4000 ans, qui a influencé nombre de récits légendaires comme la Bible ou l'Iliade.Gilgamesh, roi d'Uruk, est un personnage à la fois réel et légendaire. Deux tiers dieu et un tiers homme, il est un tyran cruel jusqu'à ce qu'Enkidu, sa création divine, ne devienne son fidèle compagnon. Ensemble, ils vont affronter de terribles épreuves, des monstres mythologiques et la colère des dieux.Après la mort de son ami Enkidu, Gilgamesh se lance dans une quête désespérée pour tenter de découvrir le secret de l'immortalité. Un voyage initiatique qui le mènera aux confins du monde connu, jusqu'à la rencontre d'un sage ayant survécu au déluge.

The end of CCC has arrived, and we can finally answer the only question that matters: Should everyone have been nicer to Passionlip? Also we talk about Gilgamesh, the extremely surprising final boss, and the problem with endings.Next time, we'll be doing a special questions episode for CCC! For Yuri Teatime we'll be covering the full run of the manga Aishita Bundake Aishite Hoshii! and Throw Away The Suit Together.Featuring co-hosts Benn Ends (@bennends.itch.io) and fen (@fenic.moe). Guest featuring Chris (@tsukinomiko.bsky.social).Support the show and get access to bonus episodes: https://www.patreon.com/cryingrulesLink to the Fate/Moon Archive new and improved schedule: http://moonarchive.art/scheduleSECTION TIMESTAMPS:intro - 0:00yuri teatime - 1:14mädchen in uniform - 6:07fate/extra ccc - 38:11gilgamesh route - 45:25outro - 3:23:56LIST OF NON TYPE-MOON WORKS REFERENCEDMädchen in Uniform (1931)ArknightsThis episode carries content warnings for discussions of sexual assault, misogyny, age-gap lesbian romance in 1930's German film, and probably some other stuff but I'm writing this description on Valentine's Day so I got stuff to do. CCut me some slack..Email us at cryingrulesactually@gmail.com with questions, comments, and compliments.Cover art by Benn Ends, Intro music by Benn Ends, remaining music from works covered.

JT's Mix Tape Episode 66 UncensoredIn this episode, JT,  @TuneThyHeart  and  @demonerasers  discuss a variety of topics ranging from the anticipated release of the Epstein files to discussions on ancient civilizations, Nephilim, and the implications of modern technology on historical narratives. They explore the Gilgamesh project, the role of Photoshop in analyzing historical images, and the mysteries surrounding the Great Lakes. The conversation highlights the intersection of ancient knowledge with contemporary discussions, emphasizing the importance of understanding our past to navigate the present. In this conversation, the speakers delve into various themes including ancient texts, mythology, the implications of oil on society, and the current global crisis. They explore the connections between historical narratives and modern events, particularly focusing on the impact of oil and the societal structures that arise from it. The discussion also touches on the role of Christianity in contemporary issues, the mud flood theory, and the significance of the Epstein files in understanding the elite's influence on society. Throughout the conversation, they draw parallels between cultural references in media and the underlying truths of our world.Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/jt-s-mix-tape--6579902/support.Please support our sponsor Modern Roots Life: https://modernrootslife.com/?bg_ref=rVWsBoOfcFJESUS SAID THERE WOULD BE HATERS Shirts: https://jtfollowsjc.com/product-category/mens-shirts/WOMEN'S SHIRTS: https://jtfollowsjc.com/product-category/womens-shirts/JT's Hats: https://jtfollowsjc.com/product-category/hats/

Epstein's text messages mention Emmanuel Macron's boyfriend, more inconsistencies appear in Erika's story, and we look more into the story of Gilgamesh and how it ties in with Epstein and the elites. 00:00 - Start. 00:58 - Gilgamesh, Epstein, and the elites. 21:10 - Erika's lies and misrepresentations. 26:54 - Tip on who Erika was with on the 10th. 31:48 - Macron in the Epstein files. 35:05 - Final thoughts and comments. PreBorn!​ ​ To donate, dial #250 and say they keyword “BABY" or by visiting https://preborn.com/candace Just Thrive​ ​ Get 20% off your order with promo code CANDACE at https://justthrivehealth.com Nimi Skincare​ ​​​ Save 10% on your order with promo code CANDACE10 at http://www.NimiSkincare.com American Financing​​​ NMLS 182334, http://www.nmlsconsumeraccess.org. APR for rates in the 5s start at 6.196% for well qualified borrowers. Call 800-795-1210 for details about credit costs and terms. Visit http://www.AmericanFinancing.net/Owens. Candace Official Website: https://candaceowens.com Candace Merch: https://shop.candaceowens.com Candace on Apple Podcasts: https://t.co/Pp5VZiLXbq Candace on Spotify: https://t.co/16pMuADXuT Candace on Rumble: https://rumble.com/c/RealCandaceO Candace en Español: https://www.youtube.com/@CandaceOwensEnEspanol Candace Owens em Português: https://www.youtube.com/@CandaceOwensemPortugues Candace Owens en Français: https://www.youtube.com/@CandaceOwensEnFrançais Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

A clip of Ben Shapiro making fun of me hits X, confirming he's the biggest fan of our show, Erika's alibi for where she was leading up to 9/10 has some holes, and yesterday I mentioned the epic of Gilgamesh...so let's take another look at the Iraq War to find out what we were actually doing over there. 00:00 - Start. 00:52 - Iraq War and destroying history. 20:31 - Erika's alibi. 37:21 - I'm just enjoying Ben Shapiro clips now. 44:14 - Comments. Get $100 off your purchase to see me at Catholic Prayer for America Gala 2026 when you use code CANDACE at checkout here: https://cforc.com/event/catholicprayerforamerica2026/ Nimi Skincare​ ​​​​​​​​​​​​ Save 10% on your order with promo code CANDACE10 at http://www.NimiSkincare.com The Wellness Company​ Visit http://www.twc.health/CANDACE and use code CANDACE at checkout for $30 OFF Clear Skin Ivermectin Cream + FREE shipping. USA residents only! Clear, calm, and confident skin starts here. Balance of Nature​ Check out Balance of Nature's Whole Health System supplements today! Visit http://BalanceofNature.com. American Financing​​ NMLS 182334, http://www.nmlsconsumeraccess.org. APR for rates in the 5s start at 6.196% for well qualified borrowers. Call 800-795-1210 for details about credit costs and terms. Visit http://www.AmericanFinancing.net/Owens. Candace Official Website: https://candaceowens.com Candace Merch: https://shop.candaceowens.com Candace on Apple Podcasts: https://t.co/Pp5VZiLXbq Candace on Spotify: https://t.co/16pMuADXuT Candace on Rumble: https://rumble.com/c/RealCandaceO Candace en Español: https://www.youtube.com/@CandaceOwensEnEspanol Candace Owens em Português: https://www.youtube.com/@CandaceOwensemPortugues Candace Owens en Français: https://www.youtube.com/@CandaceOwensEnFrançais Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Today Pastor Stan shares a new dream from UB Ready that shows Iran will Attack the U.S. In other news, in a shocking discovery in the FOIA, an email was discovered that the Clintons “Requested documents pertaining to the resurrection chamber of Gilgamesh, the location of his body and the location of the buried Nephilim. 00:00 Intro 06:23 Honduras 08:39 Iran Will Attack US 19:15 Hard to Believe 20:57 Release the Giants 23:38 Second Witness

Today Pastor Stan shares a new dream from UB Ready that shows Iran will Attack the U.S. In other news, in a shocking discovery in the FOIA, an email was discovered that the Clintons “Requested documents pertaining to the resurrection chamber of Gilgamesh, the location of his body and the location of the buried Nephilim. 00:00 Intro 06:23 Honduras 08:39 Iran Will Attack US 19:15 Hard to Believe 20:57 Release the Giants 23:38 Second Witness

Pastor Roger dives into the flood in Noah's day. He give historical and archeological evidence for the truth of a global flood from many ancient cultures. From the Caspian Sea to the Great Salt Lake and from the Epic of Gilgamesh to the book of Enoch, we have much reason to believe this biblical account (never mind the inspiration of Scripture with God as it's ultimate author). Be prepared to learn new perspectives as Pastor Roger looks at the worldwide conditions of the time, similar conditions of today, and most importantly he points to the ark as a symbol of salvation. -Featuring Roger Hirth

Kaka Balli Punjabi Podcast | Humans vs Animals | Knowledge, Consciousness & Life FiltersIn this mind-bending episode of the Kaka Balli Punjabi Podcast, we take a deep dive into the most fundamental question of all: what really separates humans from animals?

This episode takes us on a journey to an album that was nearly 15 years in the making, through a repressive regime and a war. This edition of TNT will focus on Iraqi metal band Acrassicauda, and their 2015 self-released heavy-hitting album, “Gilgamesh.” Often credited as being the first metal band from Iraq, Acrassicauda thrived as a band despite government censorship, death threats, and forced relocation. Vice magazine provides a telling preview of the album, noting that the conditions in Baghdad after the American invasion resulted in the band's music becoming "even more hate-filled and intense and fucked than ever before." Turn this one up loud and strap in.

Adam and Eve: parents of humanity, or characters in a Near Eastern myth about wisdom, mortality, and the limits of being human?Tristan Hughes and Dr Dylan Johnson strip away the Sunday school varnish to re-examine the story of Adam and Eve, starting with the question: was there really an apple? They discuss the origins and multiple layers of the story, try and pinpoint where Eden might have been located, and trace the tale of lost immortality that echoes through the legends of Gilgamesh, Sumerian rivers, and the earliest biblical textsMOREMoses & The ExodusListen on Apple Listen on SpotifyThe Ark of The CovenantListen on Apple Listen on SpotifyWatch this episode on our NEW YouTube channel: @TheAncientsPodcastPresented by Tristan Hughes. Audio editor is Aidan Lonergan. The producer is Joseph Knight. The senior producer is Anne-Marie Luff.All music courtesy of Epidemic SoundsThe Ancients is a History Hit podcast.Sign up to History Hit for hundreds of hours of original documentaries, with a new release every week. Sign up at https://www.historyhit.com/subscribe. You can take part in our listener survey here:https://insights.historyhit.com/history-hit-podcast-always-on Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

The crew is back and ready to break it all down! This week, we dive deep into the controversial Jujutsu Kaisen Maki episode that has the anime community divided—why are Japanese fans rating it differently than Western audiences? We give our takes on the animation, the OST debates, and what this pivotal moment means for Maki's character arc.Plus, we're geeking out over Fate/strange Fake and why this might be shaping up to be the greatest Fate installment yet (if it ever finishes). Gilgamesh is hitting different this time, and we break down what makes this Holy Grail War so unique.We also check in on Fire Force Season 3, discuss why A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms is cooking, and Santo tries (and fails) to get the crew to watch Uma Musume.Football fans, we see you—the Patriots Super Bowl run gets its moment, and the takes are flying.

EVEN MORE about this episode!Did your soul choose this life—and its challenges—before you were born? Join Julie Ryan and developmental psychologist Robert Atkinson, PhD, as they explore pre-birth planning, destiny, déjà vu, and how ancient myths reveal the deeper purpose behind your life's journey. Through powerful spiritual stories and folklore— including tales of souls receiving their life path before birth—they explore whether experiences like déjà vu may be echoes of a greater design meant to guide our growth and awakening.This episode dives into myths and sacred stories not as literal history, but as profound psychological and spiritual maps. Dr. Atkinson reveals how timeless narratives—from Jonah and the whale to Gilgamesh and Odysseus—share a universal structure rooted in Joseph Campbell's Hero's Journey, offering a blueprint for transformation that transcends culture and time. These stories, he explains, are invitations to wholeness—calling us to face trials, claim meaning, and evolve beyond duality.Together, Julie and Dr. Atkinson explore how imagination, community, meditation, prayer, and spiritual guidance help us interpret these stories in a modern world overflowing with information but starving for wisdom. This rich conversation will change how you view your life story—inviting you to see your challenges not as obstacles, but as sacred signposts guiding you toward purpose, unity, and deeper consciousness.Guest Biography:Robert Atkinson, PhD, is an award-winning author, educator, and developmental psychologist whose work bridges storytelling, personal transformation, and the evolution of consciousness. He is the author or co-editor of more than a dozen influential books, including The Way of Unity: Essential Principles and Preconditions for Peace (2025), A New Story of Wholeness, The Story of Our Time, Year of Living Deeply, and Mystic Journey, earning multiple Gold and Silver Nautilus Book Awards for his contributions to unitive and evolutionary thought. Dr. Atkinson holds a PhD in cross-cultural human development from the University of Pennsylvania with a postdoctoral fellowship from the University of Chicago, is Professor Emeritus at the University of Southern Maine, and is internationally recognized for his pioneering work in life story interviewing, personal myth-making, and soul-centered development. He is the director of StoryCommons, founder of One Planet Peace Forum, a member of the Evolutionary Leaders Circle, and a recipient of a Lifetime Achievement Award as a Visionary Leader from the Visioneers International Network.Episode Chapters:(0:00:01) - Soul's Purpose and Life's Journey(0:12:24) - The Power of Myths and Legends(0:26:42) - The Power of Stories and Imagination(0:37:23) - The Power of Parables and Healing(0:55:43) - The Path to Wholeness➡️Subscribe to Ask Julie Ryan YouTube➡️Subscribe to Ask Julie Ryan Español YouTube➡️Subscribe to Ask Julie Ryan Português YouTube➡️Subscribe to Ask Julie Ryan Deutsch YouTube➡️Subscribe to Ask Julie Ryan Français YouTube✏️Ask Julie a Question!

Episode: It's go time for Amy's favorite tablet, tablet 11 of the Epic of Gilgamesh!! It's flood time, or at least, it's time to learn about the great flood, caused by Enlil. This episode will cover the events related to the great flood, as reported by Utnapishtim. Gilgamesh seeks immortality, but ultimately, learns about his human limitations and the need for a good nap.  Hosts: Chris McKinny and Amy Balogh Resources: We've been reading from the Penguin Classic edition of the Epic of Gilgamesh.  Image Attribution: 7th century version of the 11th Tablet. Wikimedia Commons, accessed 1/21/2026 - https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Tablet_XI_or_the_Flood_Tablet_of_the_Epic_of_Gilgamesh,_currently_housed_in_the_British_Museum_in_London.jpg

Five thousand years before Batman brooded, before Achilles sulked, before Hercules punched a god in the mouth, there was Epic of Gilgamesh - the original badass origin story. Gilgamesh starts as a tyrant king with godlike strength, a legendary temper, and absolutely zero chill, until the gods drop another unstoppable force into his life: Enkidu. What follows is a saga of monster-slaying, divine beef, catastrophic hubris, and one of the earliest -and most brutal - lessons ever recorded about friendship, loss, and mortality. Host Ben Thompson is joined by mythologist and storyteller Dr. John Bucher, Executive Director of the Joseph Campbell Foundation, to break down how Gilgamesh isn't just the first epic hero - but the blueprint for every action movie, superhero arc, and hero's journey that followed. It's a story about conquering everything… except death - and why that realization still hits just as hard 5,000 years later.

Interview starts at 23:35 Roger Cunningham joins us for a fascinating chat about censorship, cataclysm, covid, climate change, and specifically the ECDO Theory (Master Exothermic Core-Mantle Decoupling – Dzhanibekov Oscillation)   We also talk about cycles, the Easter Island deception, inundation evidence around the world, Ben Davidson's work, Pillar 43 at Gobekli Tepe, pyramids and star charts, the Y DNA bottleneck, Gilgamesh, Enoch and much more.   Managing Partner/CEO, Georgia Institute of Technology, Systems Science & Engineering, US Naval Officer (ONI), ENTX, Ponerologist Author: ECDO Earth Cataclysm Theory https://x.com/EthicalSkeptic https://theethicalskeptic.com/   Become a Lord or Lady with 1k donations over time. And a Noble with any donation. Leave Serfdom behind and help Grimerica stick to 0 ads and sponsors and fully listener supported. Thanks for listening!! Help support the show, because we can't do it without ya. https://www.amazon.com/Unlearned-School-Failed-What-About/dp/1998704904/ref=sr_1_3?sr=8-3   Support the show directly: https://grimericacbd.com/ CBD / THC Gummies and Tinctures http://www.grimerica.ca/support https://www.patreon.com/grimerica http://www.grimericaoutlawed.ca/support www.Rokfin.com/Grimerica   Adultbrain Audiobook YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/@adultbrainaudiobookpublishing https://grimericaoutlawed.ca/The newer controversial Grimerica Outlawed Grimerica Show Check out our next trip/conference/meetup - Contact at the Cabin www.contactatthecabin.com Our audio book website: www.adultbrain.ca www.grimerica.ca/shrooms and Micro Dosing Darren's book www.acanadianshame.ca Grimerica on Rumble: https://rumble.com/c/c-2312992 Join the chat / hangout with a bunch of fellow Grimericans Https://t.me.grimerica https://www.guilded.gg/i/EvxJ44rk The Eh- List site. Canadian Propaganda Deconstruction https://eh-list.ca/ The Eh-List YouTube Channel: https://youtube.com/@theeh-list?si=d_ThkEYAK6UG_hGX Leave a review on iTunes and/or Stitcher: https://itunes.apple.com/ca/podcast/grimerica-outlawed http://www.stitcher.com/podcast/grimerica-outlawed Sign up for our newsletter https://grimerica.substack.com/ SPAM Graham = and send him your synchronicities, feedback, strange experiences and psychedelic trip reports!! graham@grimerica.com InstaGRAM https://www.instagram.com/the_grimerica_show_podcast/ Tweet Darren https://twitter.com/Grimerica Can't. Darren is still deleted. Purchase swag, with partial proceeds donated to the show: www.grimerica.ca/swag Send us a postcard or letter http://www.grimerica.ca/contact/ Episode ART - Napolean Duheme's site http://www.lostbreadcomic.com/ MUSIC https://brokeforfree.bandcamp.com/ - Something Jah Felix's Site sirfelix.bandcamp.com - A Grimerica Christmas Carols

durée : 00:28:08 - L'Entretien archéologique - par : Antoine Beauchamp - L'Épopée de Gilgamesh et le récit d'Atrahasīs, deux textes datant de l'empire akkadien (du 24ᵉ au 22ᵉ siècle av. J.-C.) évoquent un événement mythique bien connu : le Déluge. Existe-t-il un lien de filiation entre ces premières versions du mythe et celle de l'Ancien Testament ? - réalisation : Olivier Bétard - invités : Cécile Michel Assyriologue, directrice de recherche CNRS au Laboratoire Archéologies et Sciences de l'Antiquité

La Epopeya de Gilgamesh, es un poema épico mesopotámico compuesto en tablillas de arcilla con escritura cuneiforme, fechado entre los siglos XXI y XVIII a.C. Fue escrito en sumerio y acadio, y narra las aventuras del rey Gilgamesh de Uruk, incluyendo temas como la amistad, la muerte, los dioses y la búsqueda de la inmortalidad. Aunque no era un “libro” como los actuales, su contenido, estructura y extensión lo convierten en la primera obra literaria conocida de la humanidad. Y descubre más historias curiosas en el canal National Geographic y en Disney +. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

SHOW 12-29-25 CBS EYE ON THE WORLD WITH JOHN BATCHELOR UR THE PRINCESS'S MUSEUM AT THE DAWN OF HISTORY Colleague Moudhy Al-Rashid. Moudhy Al-Rashidintroduces Ennigaldi-Nanna, a princess and high priestess of the moon god in the ancient city of Ur. Excavators discovered a chamber in her palace containing carefully arranged artifacts from eras much older than her own, effectively serving as a museum. A clay cylinder found there acted as a museum label, preserving the history of ancient kings to lend legitimacy to her father, King Nabonidus, and his dynasty. NUMBER 1 THE STORIES TOLD BY MESOPOTAMIAN BRICKS Colleague Moudhy Al-Rashid. Moudhy Al-Rashidexplains how millions of mud bricks reveal the history of ancient Mesopotamia, from the construction of massive temples to the 9-kilometer wall of Uruk. These bricks were often stamped with the names of kings to ensure their deeds were known to the gods. Beyond royal propaganda, bricks preserve intimate moments, such as the accidental paw prints of dogs or footprints of children left while the clay dried in the sun. NUMBER 2 GILGAMESH AND THE BIRTH OF WRITTEN LEGEND Colleague Moudhy Al-Rashid. Al-Rashid discusses Cuneiform, a writing system used for over 3,000 years to record languages like Sumerian and Akkadian. She details the Epic of Gilgamesh, a tale of a tyrannical king who finds wisdom and friendship with the wild man Enkidu. While Gilgamesh was likely a real historical figure, his story evolved into high poetry about mortality and leadership. The segment notes that kingship was believed to have descended from heaven. NUMBER 3 HOMEWORK AND HEARTACHE IN ANCIENT SCHOOLS Colleague Moudhy Al-Rashid. Excavations of a "schoolhouse" in Nippur revealed thousands of practice tablets, showing the messy first attempts of children learning to write. These artifacts include literary accounts of school life, complaints about food, and even teeth marks from frustrated students. The curriculum was rigorous, covering literacy and advanced mathematics like geometry, which was essential for future scribes to calculate field yields and manage the bureaucracy. NUMBER 4 THE ALCOHOLIC TYRANTS OF THE WEST Colleague Professor James Romm. James Romm introduces Syracuse as a dominant power in the 4th century BCE under the rule of Dionysius the Elder, who rose from clerk to autocrat. Dionysius fortified the city's geography to create a secure military base and adopted the Persian custom of polygamy, marrying two women on the same day. This created a rivalrous, "unhappy family" dynamic in a court notorious for heavy drinking and "Syracusan tables" of excess. NUMBER 5 PLATO'S FAILED FIRST MISSION TO SICILY Colleague Professor James Romm. Professor Romm details Plato's background, including his connection to the Thirty Tyrants in Athens and his philosophy of "forms." Plato was invited to Syracuse by Dion, who hoped the philosopher could reform the tyrant Dionysius the Elder. However, this first visit was a disaster; Plato attempted to lecture the ruler on ethics and moral behavior, resulting in the philosopher being dismissed from the court with dishonor. NUMBER 6 THE BANISHMENT OF DION Colleague Professor James Romm. Plato returned to Syracuse to tutor Dionysius the Younger, hoping to create an enlightened monarch, but found a court defined by drunkenness and immaturity. The experiment failed when Dion, Plato's ally, sent a letter to Carthage that the tyrant interpreted as treason. Dionysiusbanished Dion and kept Plato under a form of house arrest to maintain the appearance of an alliance, while the tyrant solidified his power. NUMBER 7 A PHILOSOPHER OBSERVES A COMING WAR Colleague Professor James Romm. At the Olympic Games, Plato met the exiled Dion and learned that the tyrant had confiscated Dion's property and given his wife to another man. Despite the growing tension, Plato visited Syracuse a third time in 361 BCE to attempt reconciliation. Romm argues that Plato's harsh description of the "tyrannical man" in The Republic was directly inspired by his personal observations of living under the roof of the Syracusan tyrant. NUMBER 8 REVOLUTION, ASSASSINATION, AND CHAOS Colleague Professor James Romm. Dion launched an invasion to liberate Syracuse, but the revolution unleashed chaotic populist passions he could not control. After ordering the assassination of a rival, Dion fell into a depression and was eventually assassinated by a faction of his own army. Rommnotes that ancient historians, including Plutarch, largely protected Dion's reputation to safeguard the prestige of Plato's Academy, despite Dion's failure to become a true philosopher king. NUMBER 9 THE TYRANT WHO BECAME A SCHOOLTEACHER Colleague Professor James Romm. Professor James Romm discusses the surprising fate of Dionysius II, the tyrant of Syracuse. After the Corinthian leader Timoleonarrived to liberate the city, Dionysius surrendered and was allowed to retire to Corinth rather than facing execution. There, the former absolute ruler became a music teacher, leading to the proverb "Dionysius is in Corinth," a saying used for centuries to describe the unpredictability of fortune and the fall of the powerful. NUMBER 10 PHILOSOPHER KINGS AND THE RIVER OF HEEDLESSNESS Colleague Professor James Romm. James Romm explores Plato's Republic, arguing that philosophers make the best kings because they perceive the true "forms" of justice rather than earthly shadows. The discussion turns to the "Myth of Er," a story of the afterlife where souls travel for a thousand years before choosing their next life. Plato warns that drinking too deeply from the River of Heedlessnesserases memory, whereas philosophers strive to recall the forms. NUMBER 11 PLATO'S LETTERS AND THE WHITEWASHING OF DION Colleague Professor James Romm. The conversation examines Plato's thirteen letters, specifically the five Romm believes are genuine regarding the Syracuse affair. Platoviewed himself as a wise lawgiver capable of reforming a tyrant, though he was naive about practical politics. In the seventh letter, Plato attempts to rehabilitate the reputation of his associate Dion, spinning the narrative to portray Dion as a virtuous victim of evil rather than admitting his political failures. NUMBER 12 THE RETURN OF THE NOBLE MONARCH Colleague Gregory Copley. Gregory Copley argues that the world has reached "peak republicanism," where republics have become inefficient political battlegrounds. He defines nobility not as a class structure, but as a quality of honorable leadership that embodies the state's values. Copley suggests modern monarchies, like that of King Charles III, are reinvigorating this role by acting as apolitical symbols of unity and diplomacy, unlike elected leaders who only represent their voters. NUMBER 13 THE DANGERS OF TRANSACTIONAL NATIONALISM Colleague Gregory Copley. Copley warns that suppression in republics often leads to uncontrollable demands for liberty, citing the collapse of the Shah's Iran and the USSR. He distinguishes between "tribal nationalism," based on shared history, and "state nationalism," which is often transactional. Copley argues that transactional systems eventually fail because the state runs out of resources to trade for support, leading to corruption and the potential fracturing of society. NUMBER 14 CONSTITUTIONS, BELIEF, AND THE EMPIRE Colleague Gregory Copley. Copley describes the US Constitution as the "de facto crown" holding the American empire together, though it faces challenges from populist movements. He argues that a "faith-based electorate" or a "belief in beliefs" is essential for social unity, noting that when people stop believing in God, they will believe in anything. Monarchy utilizes mysticism and continuity to maintain this unity, a quality difficult for republics to replicate. NUMBER 15 THE REASSERTION OF ANCIENT EMPIRES Colleague Gregory Copley. Copley contends that China is reasserting its identity as an empire, with the Communist Party seeking legitimacy by connecting with imperial history despite previous rejections of the past. Similarly, he views Vladimir Putin as a nationalist attempting to restore the memory and grandeur of the Russian Empire. The segment concludes by suggesting the US might "lease" the symbolic nobility of King Charles III during state visits to borrow necessary leadership prestige. NUMBER 16

GILGAMESH AND THE BIRTH OF WRITTEN LEGEND Colleague Moudhy Al-Rashid. Al-Rashid discusses Cuneiform, a writing system used for over 3,000 years to record languages like Sumerian and Akkadian. She details the Epic of Gilgamesh, a tale of a tyrannical king who finds wisdom and friendship with the wild man Enkidu. While Gilgamesh was likely a real historical figure, his story evolved into high poetry about mortality and leadership. The segment notes that kingship was believed to have descended from heaven. NUMBER 3 1896 UR

Deze week hoor je in NRC Vandaag onze serie Wilde eeuwen, het begin. Een van de verhalende series die we dit jaar maakten: perfect voor tijdens de dagen rond Kerst.Het is 3.200 jaar geleden. Schrijver Sîn-leqi-unnini verwerkt zijn angsten in een episch verhaal over Gilgamesj. Zal dat indruk maken op de nieuwe Babylonische koning? Heeft u vragen, suggesties of ideeën over onze journalistiek? Mail dan naar onze ombudsman via ombudsman@nrc.nl.Voor deze aflevering is onder meer gebruikt gemaakt van deze literatuur:Karen Sonik. ‘Characterization and Identity in Mesopotamian Literature: The Gilgamesh Epic, Enuma elish, and Other Sumerian and Akkadian Narratives' in Dahlia Shehata e.a. (eds) Contemporary Approaches to Mesopotamian Literature. How to Tell a Story, Brill 2024. Sophus Helle. ‘Gilgamesh Returns' in Articulations, in juni 2024.Amanda H. Podany. 'Weavers, Scribes, and Kings A New History of the Ancient Near East', Oxford University Press 2022. Sophus Helle. 'Gilgamesh: A New Translation of the Ancient Epic', Yale University Press 2021 Andrew George. 'The Epic of Gilgamesh. The Babylonian Epic Poem and Other Texts in Akkadian and Sumerian', Penguin 2020 (tweede druk).Herman van Stiphout. 'Het epos van Gilgames', SUN 2011 (derde druk). Gwendolyn Leick (ed). 'The Babylonian world', Routledge 2007 Benjamin R. Foster. 'Before the muses: an anthology of Akkadian literature', CDL Press 2005 (derde druk). Zie ook ‘Het epos van Gilgamesj: hoe een held mens wordt' in NRC op 6 juli 2019.Tekst en presentatie: Hendrik SpieringRedactie en regie: Mirjam van ZuidamMuziek, montage en mixage: Rufus van BaardwijkBeeld: Jeen BertingVormgeving: Yannick MortierZie het privacybeleid op https://art19.com/privacy en de privacyverklaring van Californië op https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Stephen Mitchell has translated or adapted some of the world's most beautiful and spiritually rich texts, including The Gospel According to Jesus, The Book of Job, Gilgamesh, Tao Te Ching, Bhagavad Gita, The Iliad, The Odyssey, Beowulf, The Selected Poetry of Rainer Maria Rilke, Rilke's Letters to a Young Poet, and The Way of Forgiveness. In his latest book, The First Christmas: A Story of New Beginnings, he brings the Nativity story to life as never before. In this special episode, Jacke talks to Stephen about his translations, his search for spiritual truths, and his work imagining the story of the first Christmas from multiple points of view. PLUS Jacke continues his way up the charts of the Greatest Books of All Time with a look at #4 on the list, The Catcher in the Rye by J.D. Salinger. Note: A version of this episode first ran in December 2021. Join Jacke on a trip through literary England! Join Jacke and fellow literature fans on an eight-day journey through literary England in partnership with ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠John Shors Travel⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ in May 2026! Scheduled stops include The Charles Dickens Museum, Dr. Johnson's house, Jane Austen's Bath, Tolkien's Oxford, Shakespeare's Globe Theater, and more. Learn more by emailing jackewilsonauthor@gmail.com or masahiko@johnshorstravel.com, or by contacting us through our website ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠historyofliterature.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. December update: Act soon - there are only two spots left! The music in this episode is by Gabriel Ruiz-Bernal. Learn more at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠gabrielruizbernal.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Help support the show at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠patreon.com/literature ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠or ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠historyofliterature.com/donate ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. The History of Literature Podcast is a member of Lit Hub Radio and the Podglomerate Network. Learn more at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠thepodglomerate.com/historyofliterature⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Send us a textMerry Christmas friends! kk here goes:HOUSE OF THE WORLD.Ancient story and artifact meets lo-fi and Mediterranean hip hop in this journey to reclaim the art of the Bible's creation story. Poetry… in cosmological motion.  haha!HOUSE OF THE WORLD was craft-brewed to give you the wisdom that our end is in our beginning.If you grew up with the Bible and it seemed like you were the only one who had serious questions about the creation story... here is a way forward with full acceptance of science and reason applied to ancient literature in context.We think this can profoundly help you rediscover who you are and what you are here to do and how to hold the sacred text of your childhood now that you've grown up.Along the way you'lllearn how the world made in Genesis 1 is less "planet spinning in space and more cosmic snow globe floating safely through chaos waters."discover how in creation myths, the creator God makes the world by separating into realms (sky, land, sea) and assigning roles (flying things, land animals, sea creatures).observe what it means in context to be made in the statue (צלם) of the divine counsel and ask "what is the best way to be a divine counsel mini-figure anyways?"meet a lovable collection of archetypal-first-humans from near Eastern Literature and consider what the first humans in first human stories actually represent.explore ancient artifacts and musings from ancient literature like the Book of the Dead and the Epic of Gilgamesh to Seneca, New Testament authors, and Rabbinic Midrash Agaddah.At the end of the day, we made HOUSE OF THE WORLD to help you reclaim ancient story for a better tomorrow. See you inside!Be good to each other!Mark and EricFor Text and Rock Poetry, Podcasts, and Video Content or to contact Mark and Eric, visit us at www.textandrock.com. You can find all of social handles here: TEXT AND ROCK SOCIALS.Want to support the show, experience our best creative work, buy one of our books or give an uncommonly better gift or art and heart? Ha! Head to the TEXT AND ROCK DIGITAL PRESS.

From Sumeria, to Greece, to India, to the depths of the dark ages we explore the stories that have inspired everything that came later with a professor of mythology and medieval literature. This particular professor also happens to be Cody's mom, so this is also a great episode to explore Cody's psyche, for those brave enough to explore a dark and twisted place. Join the Hugonauts book club on discordOr you can watch the episode on YouTube if you prefer videoIf you want to do some reading, here are our suggestions on the best translations of these myths (and even a couple great graphic novels): Epic of Gilgamesh, trans. Andrew George, Penguin ClassicsThe Odyssey, trans. Robert FaglesThe Odyssey, Gareth Hinds graphic novelThe Iliad, Penguin ClassicsThe Aeneid, trans. Robert Fagles Penguin ClassicsAge of Bronze Series, Eric Shanower (series of graphic novels on Trojan War)Hercules, Fred Van LenteMonkey, trans. Arthur WaleyBeowulf, trans. Seamus HeaneyThe Popul Vuh, trans. Michael Bazzett, Milkweed EditionsThe Nibelungenlied, trans. AT Hatto, PenguinChretien de Troyes, Arthurian Romances, trans. William W. Kibler, PenguinLe Morte D'Arthur, Sir Thomas Malory, Penguin ClassicsTales from the Thousand and One Nights, trans. N.J. Dawood, Penguin ClassicsSindbad and Other Stories from Arabian Nights, trans Husain HaddowySinbad the Sailor, Penguin ClassicsThe Ramayana, Abridged and Translated by Arshia Sattar, Penguin Classics OR any children's/YA book to get started. There are hundredsIf you want to jump around, here are the timestamps for all the books we talked about: 0:00 - Intro1:45 - The Epic of Gilgamesh6:35 - The Odyssey10:12 - The Iliad12:09 - The Aeneid14:12 - Hercules15:53 - Monkey (Excerpts from Journey to the West)21:00 - Beowulf25:25 - The Popul Vuh28:23 - The Nibelungenlied33:21 - King Arthur Myths (Malory, De Troyes)36:56 - Tales From the Thousand and One Nights41:40 - Sinbad the Sailor45:10 - The Ramayana49:55 - Our Top 3 favorite myths

This week, Carter dives into some recent viewing (Scrooge, Narnia, Sea Beast) and Scott shares tales of a germy Santa and a trip to the mall.We cover the week's game (Split Fiction) and read listener mail, including a comment about Scott's supposed man-crush and a hilarious story about confusing a balaclava with baklava (the "face pastry").Finally, we explore the deep history of the Noah flood myth, revealing its true origins in the Sumerian Epic of Gilgamesh and discussing the real-world geological event (the flooding of the Persian Gulf) that inspired it. And loads more! Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This week, Carter dives into some recent viewing (Scrooge, Narnia, Sea Beast) and Scott shares tales of a germy Santa and a trip to the mall.We cover the week's game (Split Fiction) and read listener mail, including a comment about Scott's supposed man-crush and a hilarious story about confusing a balaclava with baklava (the "face pastry").Finally, we explore the deep history of the Noah flood myth, revealing its true origins in the Sumerian Epic of Gilgamesh and discussing the real-world geological event (the flooding of the Persian Gulf) that inspired it. And loads more! Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

On October 6, 2023, Rabbi Meir Soloveichik sat at his desk facing a deadline for his monthly column. Israel's citizens were then furiously debating judicial reform, but he'd already had his say on that matter. He decided to write about something else instead: a Jeopardy episode where three educated contestants stared blankly when asked to identify the source of this line: "Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death." This, among the most famous images in all of Western literature, comes of course from Psalm 23. And none of the contestants knew it.   Rabbi Soloveichik submitted the piece on October 6, hours before the festival of Shemini Atzeret. The next morning, October 7, the Jewish people would be thrust into the valley of the shadow of death. T'hillim, as the Psalm are known in Hebrew, would, over the following weeks and months, accompany the Jewish people's every thought. Their distress could be articulated in David's very own words, linking their pain to his pain, their redemptive dreams to his redemptive dreams, their future to his future.   In his new podcast, "Poetry and Prayer: A Daily Journey Through the Psalms," Soloveichik walks listeners through all 150 psalms, one by one. For today's episode, he sits down with Jonathan Silver, the editor of Mosaic, to discuss this ambitious project. He puts forward a striking claim in the course of the conversation: the Psalms represent something unprecedented in ancient literature. While Homer or Gilgamesh depict external action—heroic deeds, cosmic battles—the Psalms take their reader (or reciter) inside someone else's soul. The Psalmist explores the full range of human emotion—doubt and faith, despair and joy, rage and delight—all while maintaining an awareness of God's presence. It's the first example in world literature of what the critic Edward Cahill calls "the eye of interiority."   When Iranian missiles fell on their cities at 2:00 am one night, Israelis immediately Googled "T'hillim" on their iPhones. An IDF soldier named Yossi Hershkovitz composed a new melody to Psalm 23 while serving in Gaza, and was killed days later—his tune surviving because a comrade taught it to his children. In America, the Psalms shaped the country's founding, from the First Continental Congress reading Psalm 35 to Lincoln quoting from the book in his Second Inaugural. More recently, Secretary of State Marco Rubio delivered a speech in Jerusalem's City of David connecting American exceptionalism to the very site where the Psalms were written.   This episode of the Tikvah Podcast is sponsored by Samuel and Malka Harris Susswein in honor of Sam Susswein's birthday. If you are interested in sponsoring an episode of this podcast, or of any other in Tikvah's growing podcast network, we invite you to join the Tikvah Ideas Circle.  

Want more exclusive content?! http://prometheuslens.supercast.com to sign up for the "All Access Pass" and get early access to episodes, private community, members only episodes, private Q & A's, and coming documentaries. We also have a $4 dollar a month package that gets you early access and an ad free listening experience! ==================== Join me as a talk with my friends David and Nestor on their new show "Shadows of a Greater Reality". We talk about my book and some of the themes behind the research. Enjoy!====================

If you want to understand the future of learning and equip yourself with the best possible tools for operating at the top of your game, I believe becoming polymathic is your best bet. And to succeed in mastering multiple skills and tying together multiple domains of knowledge, it’s helpful to have contemporary examples. Especially from people operating way out on the margins of the possible. That’s why today we’re looking at what happens when a poet decides to stop writing on easily destroyed paper. Ebooks and the computers that store information have a shelf life too. No, we’re talking about what happens when a poet starts “writing” into the potentially infinite cellular matter of a seemingly unkillable bacterium. This is the story of The Xenotext. How it came to be, how it relates to memory and the lessons you can learn from the years Christian Bök spent teaching himself the skills needed to potentially save humanity's most important art from the death of our sun. Poetry. But more importantly, this post is a blueprint for you. The story of The Xenotext is a masterclass in why the era of the specialist is over, and why the future belongs to the polymaths who dare to learn the “impossible” by bringing together multiple fields. What on earth could be impossible, you ask? And what does any of this have to do with memory? Simple: Writing in a way that is highly likely to survive the death of the sun changes the definition of what memory is right now. And it should change what we predict memory will be like in both the near and distant future. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HwQiW1XDAvI Encoding Literature Into Life: The Xenotext Christian Bök, often described as a conceptual poet, has run experiments with words for decades. For example, Eunoia is a univocal lipogram. That means, in each chapter, Bök used only words containing one of the vowels. This is a constraint, and it leads to lines like, “Awkward grammar appals a craftsman.” And “Writing is inhibiting.” There are other “programs” or constraints Bök used to construct the poem. As a result, you hear and feel the textures of your own mother tongue in a completely new way as you read the poem. But for The Xenotext project, Bök wondered if it would be possible to discover the rules and constraints that would enable himself, and conceivably other poets and writers, to encode poetry into a living organism. That leads to a fascinating question about memory that many mnemonists have tackled, even if they’re not fully aware of it. Can a poem outlive the civilization that produced it? If so, and humans are no longer around, how would that work? The Science of How Biology Becomes Poetry As far as I can understand, one of the first steps involved imagining the project itself, followed by learning how it could be possible for a poem to live inside of a cell. And which kind of cell would do the job of protecting the poetry? It turns out that there’s an “extremophile” called Deinococcus radiodurans. It was listed in the Guinness Book of World Records as the most radiation resistant bacterium on planet Earth. As a life form, its DNA was sequenced and published in 1999. According to the Wikipedia page on The Xenotext, Bök started conceiving of encoding poetry into DNA and then inserting it into the bacterium circa 2002. But the project is about more than having poetry persist within a cell so it can transmit the work without errors later. It’s a kind of combinatory puzzle in which the bacterium acts as a kind of co-author. In order to pull this project off, Bök needed to enlist the help of scientists while mastering multiple skills many people would not normally consider “writing.” But as we head into the future, we definitely should. Radical Autodidacticism: Reaching New Heights Through Deep Discipline To this day, many educators talk about the importance of being a specialist. But The Xenotext project and the work Bök put into it forces us to redefine what it means to be a self-directed learner in the 21st century. When Bök decided to encode a poem into the DNA of an extremophile bacterium, he didn’t just “dabble” in science or explore various interests as a multipotentialite. Nor did he read a few pop-sci books and expect an organism to write a poem in return. No, he spent many years studying genomic and proteomic engineering. He coded his own computer program to help him “unearth” the poetry, all while writing grants and collaborating with multiple experts. The Skill Stack If you’re a lifelong learner with big dreams, it’s useful to examine how people with autodidactic and polymathic personality traits operate. One of the first skills is to allow yourself to dream big. Giving oneself permission like this might not seem like a skill. But since we can model any polymath or other person who inspires us, you probably won’t be surprised that many of the most inspiring polymaths regularly daydream. Picking a dream and pursuing it despite any obstacles is also a skill. And once you’ve got a project, the next step is to take a cue from a polymath like Elon Musk and break your goal down into the most basic principles. No matter how unusual or unlikely your dream, it’s a useful exercise. When it comes to analytical thinking and breaking a goal down so you can start pursuing it, it’s often useful to look at your existing competence. In Bök’s case, I believe he wrote Eunoia by culling words manually from dictionaries over many years. But he couldn’t brute force The Xenotext in that way due to all the biological chemistry involved, so he had to become what you might think of as a computational linguist. My point is not to diminish the originality of this project in any way. But I think it’s helpful to recognize that The Xenotext is not wildly divorced from the skills Bök already had. It’s an evolution that draws from them. There’s also the skill of what Waqas Ahmed calls synesthetic thinking in his book, The Polymath. Not to be mistaken with synesthesia, synesthetic thinking involves imagining an outcome through at least one other sense. In Bök’s case, The Xenotext involves imagining the use of living beings other than human as being part of art. And he has described the possibility that his work could reach “a sufficiently intelligent civilization that has fast computers and smart cryptographers.” This is the skill of sensing beyond our own species and taking the risk of trying to reach them. Even if we’re long gone. We Need Deathless Memory Now, I have a confession to make. One of the many reasons I’m so fascinated by The Xenotext is that my memory is incredibly weak. That’s why I use mnemonics with such passion, including for memorizing poetry. Recently, I had the chance to interview Christian Bök, who you can probably tell by now, I consider to be one of the most rigorous intellects alive. And right in the middle of the interview, I started reciting one of his books from Book I of The Xenotext. For all the mnemonics in the world, I choked. Now, sometimes, this happens just because I have mouth problems and things get a bit sticky. Other times, it’s exhaustion and yet other times, I manage to recite poems with no problem at all. I’m mentioning this human moment in my career as a mnemonist not because I have a deep need to confess. No, this fragile, ephemeral human moment while talking about encoding and retrieving information perfectly from its placement within a living cell suggests the possibility that life really can be the most durable storage device in the universe. And to see this project come to fruition after all the years Bök pushed through multiple struggles inspires me in countless ways. For one thing, Bök’s project strikes me as the ultimate memory strategy. Was Poetry the Original Hard Drive? As Bök reminded me during our discussion, poetry was a memory technology long before writing existed. Rhythm, rhyme, and meter were engineering tools used to ensure information survived the “game of telephone” across generations. In Bök’s words: “We certainly owe every great epic story of the sort like the Epic of Gilgamesh or the Iliad… stories that were intended, of course, to transmit important cultural information over long periods of time. We need poets to be able to create that work and make it memorable enough… to persist over time.” And it is in this context that Christian Bök realized something terrifying: “There’s nothing that we’ve built so far on the planet Earth that would probably last more than a few tens of billions of years at most.” Until his work on The Xenotext succeeded, we have had nothing to rely on apart from our brains assisted by techniques like the Memory Palace, or silicon prostheses. But the computers and servers we now use to store our collective memory are just as subject to rot as paper. Even our homes would be ground into “an almost undetectable layer of geological dust” in just a few million years. So Bök’s selection of a deathless bacterium isn’t just a petri dish stunt. By choosing a specific bacterium that is “widely regarded as one of the most unkillable things ever to have evolved on the planet Earth,” Bök has created a memory inside a “message in a bottle thrown into an enormous ocean” that might actually survive the death of our sun. How to Develop Your Own Polymathic Persistence  Reading this, you might be thinking, “I’m just a student,” or “I’m just a writer.” Bök could have thought that too. As he told me: “My assumption was that I’ve got training in English literature… Obviously, in order to embark upon such a project, I had to acquire a whole set of new skills, familiarize myself with a lot of very difficult discourses.” And so he made the decision to step outside of his lane, joining other innovators who have done the same. But how do you engage in a project that takes decades without burning out? Bök gave me three specific clues you can apply to your own learning journey. One: Embrace the Unknown Bök told me that if he had known how hard the project would be, he might not have started. He called this his “saving grace,” yet how many times do we turn away from our dreams because we don’t know the size of the mountain. Nelson Dellis told me something similar once about memory training. He’s a memory champion, but also a climber who has summited Everest. He said you don’t have to worry about whether the top of the mountain is there or not. Just focus on where you’re going to place your hands next. Two: Focus on Incremental Achievement Even as Bök’s project threw new obstacles at him, he told me: “I gave myself accomplishments or achievements that were incremental, that I knew I could probably fulfill, and would embark upon those doable tasks in an effort to acquire the required skill set in order to accomplish the remainder of these tasks.” In other words, he stacked small, doable wins on top of each other. And kept stacking until he had built a ladder to the impossible. Three: Tunnel Through the Noise Bök was candid about some of the loneliness on the path of the polymath. Sadly, he noted: This project, especially, has been beleaguered with all kinds of obstruction and difficulty that were added to the already difficult task at hand and the improbable kinds of risks that I had to adopt in order to be able to accomplish it. His advice having pushed through and made it to the other side? “If you’re going through hell, keep going. Don’t stop, because otherwise, you’re in hell… Just keep going, try to tunnel through.” Bök's work definitely makes a big statement when it comes to 21st century poetry. But for me, it's also a statement about memory and human potential. The Xenotext challenges us to stop thinking of computers as something that has eclipsed the human brain as the ultimate storage and retrieval device. It places our attention squarely back on the relationship between poetry and life, and the aspects of language that were in so many ways already a technology “infecting” our cells. If you want to become a polymath and enjoy a legacy that lasts, you must be willing to endure what Bök described as “36 different side quests” of complex projects, you must be willing to look at subjects and skills that seem “impossible” and learn them anyway. Ready to start your own “impossible” learning project? I have a guide that will help you develop your own curriculum: This Self-Education Blueprint will help you transform scattered curiosity into tightly interwoven levels of expertise. That way, the knowledge you accumulate gets put to use, and above all, helps others too.

Is the idea of “progress” the propaganda of the ruling class? Yes, according to Samuel Miller McDonald, author of Progress: How One Idea Built Civilization and Now Threatens to Destroy it. McDonald traces this “narrative formula” back 5,000 years to the first market empires in Mesopotamia—societies that were parasitic from the start, extracting from nature for profit and expansion. The Mesopotamian epic Epic of Gilgamesh, McDonald argues, is essentially a celebration of deforestation. Fast forward a few thousand years and modern industrialization didn't corrupt this system; it supercharged it. His solution? Sortition, agroecology, and dissolving elite power. “I have more faith in the general public,” he tells me about a contemporary world dominated by what he sees as extractive billionaires like Bill Gates and Peter Thiel, “than in people who seek positions of power and control.” This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit keenon.substack.com/subscribe

Stories about human beings transforming into wolves are as old as literature itself. Even the ancient Mesopotamian Epic of Gilgamesh featured a story of a man becoming a wolf. The Werewolf may be one of our most ancient and historically durable monsters. Could Werewolf stories reflect a distant, if blurry, historical memory? Belief in real werewolves seems to have peaked during the witch-panics of 16th and 17th centuries. How should we understand the people who confessed to being real werewolves? Tune-in and find out how sympathetic wounds, enchanted girdles, and werewolf ointment all play a role in the story. Join OFH in Greece in 2026! Click HERE to explore the itinerary!See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

HEADLINE: Ancient Mesopotamian Literacy, Math, and the Epic of Gilgamesh GUEST NAME: Moudhy Al-RashidSUMMARY: John Batchelor speaks with Moudhy Al-Rashid about Mesopotamian education teaching advanced mathematics and writing in Sumerian and Akkadian, preserved on homework tablets. The Epic of Gilgamesh, dating to a likely real king around 2800 BCE, tells of a tyrant's transformation into a wise king after learning that life concerns community survival 1700 BABYLON

CBS EYE ON THE WORLD WITH JOHN BATCHELOR THE SHOW BEGINS IN THE DOUBTS ABOUT THE AMERICAN ECONOMY AND THE CONSUMER 1940 LONDON   10-3-25 FIRST HOUR 9-915 Slow Rebuilding and Political Manipulation in LA Fire Areas Guest Name: Jeff Bliss Summary: Rebuilding fire-damaged areas like Pacific Palisades is agonizingly slow, potentially taking 9 to 20 years, causing residents to abandon their homes. Red tape delays permit issuance, possibly benefiting real estate speculators, including foreign buyers. There is concern that political leaders are pushing to reshape these communities by moving in tall, low-cost housing. 915-930 Economic Slowdown Evident in Local Consumer Spending and Housing Guest Name: Jim McTague Summary:Despite lower gas prices in Lancaster County, a ripple effect from declining Asian imports is expected. Consumer caution remains high, with "English" shoppers buying essentials and avoiding expensive electronics. Local diners show less vibrancy, suggesting the economy has lost "some spring in its step." High-end real estate sales have also notably "dried up." 930-945 HEADLINE: Trump's War on Cartels and Venezuela Intervention; Supreme Court Takes Up Federal Reserve Governor Firing Case GUEST NAME: Richard Epstein SUMMARY: John Batchelor speaks with Richard Epstein about President Trump's "war" against drug cartels and potential Venezuela intervention, which Epstein deems unlawful executive overreach due to congressional inertia. He suggests overthrowing Maduro would be more strategic. The Supreme Court scheduled oral arguments regarding presidential power to fire Federal Reserve governors, specifically Lisa Cook, addressing the future of independent agencieS. 945-1000 HEADLINE: Trump's War on Cartels and Venezuela Intervention; Supreme Court Takes Up Federal Reserve Governor Firing Case GUEST NAME: Richard Epstein SUMMARY: John Batchelor speaks with Richard Epstein about President Trump's "war" against drug cartels and potential Venezuela intervention, which Epstein deems unlawful executive overreach due to congressional inertia. He suggests overthrowing Maduro would be more strategic. The Supreme Court scheduled oral arguments regarding presidential power to fire Federal Reserve governors, specifically Lisa Cook, addressing the future of independent agencieS. SECOND HOUR 10-1015 Need for Pentagon Leadership in Fortifying US Infrastructure Against Adversaries Guest Name: Henry SokolskiSummary: Russia is allegedly already waging hybrid war against the EU via cable cutting and cyber assaults, which is expected to reach the US. The US is unprepared organizationally. The Pentagon (Secretary of Defense) should lead hardening and proliferation efforts for targets like the electric grid and nuclear plants, but they are currently resistant to doing so publicly. 1015-1030 Need for Pentagon Leadership in Fortifying US Infrastructure Against Adversaries Guest Name: Henry SokolskiSummary: Russia is allegedly already waging hybrid war against the EU via cable cutting and cyber assaults, which is expected to reach the US. The US is unprepared organizationally. The Pentagon (Secretary of Defense) should lead hardening and proliferation efforts for targets like the electric grid and nuclear plants, but they are currently resistant to doing so publicly. 1030-1045 Interstellar Comet 3I Atlas and Martian/Jupiter Missions Guest Name: Bob Zimmerman Summary: Comet 3I Atlas is the third identified interstellar object and the second interstellar comet, much larger than previous ones. Its path brings it within about 20 million miles of Mars, but it is currently blocked by the sun. NASA and European teams are attempting to get data using Mars orbiters and rovers, though the resolution may not match Webb's spectroscopy. Europe is also considering re-aiming the Juice mission. 1045-1100 Webb Telescope Challenges Cosmology Theories with 'Little Red Dots' Guest Name: Bob Zimmerman Summary:The Webb Space Telescope is finding mysterious "little red dots" in the very early universe, observed via infrared due to redshift. Astronomers speculate these might be supermassive black holes, which shouldn't exist so early, challenging the Big Bang theory itself. About 30% of these dots do not appear compact when viewed in ultraviolet light, resembling galaxies instead. THIRD HOUR 1100-1115 HEADLINE: Princess Ennigaldi-Nanna's Chamber: An Early Mesopotamian Museum GUEST NAME: Moudhy Al-Rashid SUMMARY: John Batchelor speaks with Moudhy Al-Rashid about Princess Ennigaldi-Nanna, high priestess to moon god Sin in Ur, who maintained ancient artifact collections in her palace. Items 1,500 years older than her time, alongside cylindrical clay labels, suggest the chamber functioned as the world's earliest known museum, establishing links to ancient history. 1115-1130 HEADLINE: Princess Ennigaldi-Nanna's Chamber: An Early Mesopotamian Museum GUEST NAME: Moudhy Al-Rashid SUMMARY: John Batchelor speaks with Moudhy Al-Rashid about Princess Ennigaldi-Nanna, high priestess to moon god Sin in Ur, who maintained ancient artifact collections in her palace. Items 1,500 years older than her time, alongside cylindrical clay labels, suggest the chamber functioned as the world's earliest known museum, establishing links to ancient history. 1130-1145 HEADLINE: Ancient Mesopotamian Literacy, Math, and the Epic of Gilgamesh GUEST NAME: Moudhy Al-RashidSUMMARY: John Batchelor speaks with Moudhy Al-Rashid about Mesopotamian education teaching advanced mathematics and writing in Sumerian and Akkadian, preserved on homework tablets. The Epic of Gilgamesh, dating to a likely real king around 2800 BCE, tells of a tyrant's transformation into a wise king after learning that life concerns community survival 1145-1200 HEADLINE: Ancient Mesopotamian Literacy, Math, and the Epic of Gilgamesh GUEST NAME: Moudhy Al-RashidSUMMARY: John Batchelor speaks with Moudhy Al-Rashid about Mesopotamian education teaching advanced mathematics and writing in Sumerian and Akkadian, preserved on homework tablets. The Epic of Gilgamesh, dating to a likely real king around 2800 BCE, tells of a tyrant's transformation into a wise king after learning that life concerns community survival FOURTH HOUR 12-1215 Positive Outlook for US-Canada Trade and Middle East Peace Guest Name: Conrad Black Summary: Canadian Prime Minister Mark Carney is meeting with President Trump to discuss economic and security issues, aiming to remove US tariffs. Trade discussions look positive following the Canadian election. Carney also specifically endorsed President Trump's proposed Middle East peace deal, which has major Arab and non-Arab Muslim powers supporting it, deeming it one of the greatest diplomatic achievements since World War II. 1215-1230 8. Italian Political Scandals and the Reinstatement of St. Francis Holiday Guest Name: Lorenzo Fiori Summary:Prime Minister Giorgia Meloni and two ministers face ICC investigation for failing to detain a Libyan warlord, citing risks to Italian workers in Libya. Separately, Italy's Senate unanimously approved reinstating a national holiday honoring St. Francis of Assisi, Italy's patron saint, 800 years after his passing. 1230-1245 Distinguishing Humane Nationalism from Pathological Ideologies Guest Name: Daniel Mahoney Summary:Nationalism must be distinguished from pathological forms like "blood and soil" ideology, which champions ethnic rooting and the subordination of others. Moderate, humane national loyalty is tied to self-government and common humanity, rejecting the path that leads to "zoological wars." Critics often unfairly conflate nationalism with isolationism or imperialism. 1245-100 AM Distinguishing Humane Nationalism from Pathological Ideologies Guest Name: Daniel Mahoney Summary:Nationalism must be distinguished from pathological forms like "blood and soil" ideology, which champions ethnic rooting and the subordination of others. Moderate, humane national loyalty is tied to self-government and common humanity, rejecting the path that leads to "zoological wars." Critics often unfairly conflate nationalism with isolationism or imperialism.