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While we can't control many parts of birth, there is so much we CAN do to quite literally change the trajectory of our birth outcome. First: Feel safe with where and with whom you will give birth.Second (but just as important!): Prepare yourself mentally, physically, emotionally, and spiritually. During her first VBAC attempt, Maria hired a midwife. Her second birth had so much more advocacy, progress, and positivity, but there were still missing pieces, new traumas to process, and things she wished had gone differently.You will NOT WANT TO MISS hearing all of the things that changed for Maria from her first two births to her third. The proactive work, the passion, the prep, the healing, the research, the manifesting, the surrendering, the trust, and to top it all off, the beautiful, unmedicated VBA2C outcome. Just like Maria, our greatest hope is for all of you to unlock this birthing power that is already within you, no matter the birth outcome. Needed WebsiteHow to VBAC: The Ultimate Prep Course for ParentsFull Transcript under Episode Details Meagan: Hello, hello, you guys. It seems like a common theme lately. A lot of people are wanting to submit their VBA2C stories, and I love it. I love it absolutely so much. We know so many of, these listeners in our community are wanting to know, is it possible? Can we VBAC after two Cesareans? I'm sure you've been noticing the theme in January and February, and now here in March, we have another VBAC after two Cesarean stories coming to you today from our friend Maria. Hello, Maria.Maria: Hi.Meagan: Thank you so much for being here and sharing your stories. We were just chatting a little bit before we got started about kind of where her birth took place, and she'll tell you more. But the VBAC was in Texas, right?Maria: It was. Yes, it was in Texas.Meagan: It was in Texas. So Texans. Texans? I don't know. we have Floridians, Utahns. Is it Texans?Maria: Texans. Yeah. Yep. And you know, Texas is a huge state, so this is central Texas in the Austin area. Yeah, because it's such a big state. It is.Meagan: It is very huge. We know people have to sometimes drive really far away to find support. And when it comes to VBAC after multiple Cesareans, we know sometimes that can be really challenging. And when I say sometimes, it's often. It is often challenging to find that support. So I really like to show everybody where you are in a way because we want people who are in Texas or who can get to Texas or who find it manageable, that they know that there is a supportive provider there. We'll learn more about that. But also, just a reminder, guys, if you're looking for a supportive provider, we have a supportive provider list. How many times can I say "supportive provider" in three seconds? A lot, apparently. Go to Instagram and hopefully at this point we'll have it on our website, so check our website too, but we will have that list.If you want to submit your provider, please let us know. Okay. We have a Review of the Week, so I want to get into that. This is by Whitney Goats, and the review title is "Amazing" on Apple Podcasts. It says, "I've been wanting to write a review for a while, but wasn't sure what I could say that would explain how much The VBAC Link meant to me. I had an unplanned Cesarean with my first and for the longest time, I felt broken and defeated. When I heard Julie and Meagan share their VBAC stories on the podcast, I cried. It was the first time that I felt understood and like I was not alone. Listening to their podcast has lifted my spirits, healed my emotional scars from the previous birth, and given me the confidence in myself and my body again. "I am now 28 weeks pregnant and preparing for my VBAC. Instead of being scared for this upcoming birth, I feel excited sometimes. I never thought it would happen. Thank you, Julie and Meagan, for the work that you have done connecting and educating all these amazing moms, and thank you for reminding me that I am a Woman of Strength even when I doubted it myself." Oh, that gave me chills. That gave me chills reading that. Oh my gosh. We love your reviews. That is amazing. And girl, Whitney Goats, I hope that you had the most amazing birth ever, and thank you for being here. Just like Maria and all the storytellers that have become before her, you guys, they're amazing and so are you. These storytellers are here to do that- uplift you, motivate you, educate you, and find the healing within yourself because it can happen, right Maria?Maria: Absolutely. 100%.Meagan: It absolutely can happen. Okay, you guys, as always, if you do not mind and if you are enjoying the podcast, will you leave us a review? You can go to Apple Podcasts. You can go to Google even and leave us a review there. You can go on Spotify or really wherever you listen to your podcasts, leave us a review. If you feel extra special and the platform that you're listening on can leave a comment, leave us a comment. You never know, it may be read on the next podcast. Okay, Maria, I want to turn the time over to you to share these stories.Maria: Thank you so much, Meagan, and I just want to say again how excited I am to be here. I agree 100% with that reviewer. This podcast was so impactful for me, and I hope that it can continue to be that for other women. I was also so excited that you're getting so many VBAC after two stories because I hope that that will continue to normalize that instead of it being this crazy thing that we're doing. Meagan: Yes.Maria: That's so exciting that it's becoming more common.Meagan: I know. It's actually making me smile so big because in the beginning, back in 2018, we had to search, and I mean search. We had to go on forums and type in "VBA2C" and really look for stories and almost had to seek them out. We had to go and ask, "Hey, would you be willing to share your story on the podcast?" And now we're just getting a flood of submissions which is so awesome. I love seeing it, and I would love to hear even more VBAC after three or four or five Cesareans because it is possible. It's not as easy to navigate through, but it is possible. And yes, there are risks. There are risks with anything that we do including a repeat Cesarean, but I want to help normalize this because, I mean, there are so many women just like Maria and myself who have gone on, done the work, got the education, and been able to have a vaginal birth. So. All right, well, we know with every VBAC or VBAC after two Cesareans, there's at least one Cesarean involved, so let's start with that story.Maria: Yeah. Okay. Thank you. So when I got pregnant with my first baby, this was in 2018, it didn't take me very long to find my way to the natural birth world. I watched The Business of Being Born like a lot of women, and I was fully convinced that I wanted to birth vaginally and naturally if possible. So, when my husband and I decided to move to Costa Rica halfway through my pregnancy, the very first thing I did was research the C-section rate versus natural birth rates in the country. I was pretty disappointed, although I wasn't surprised, to find that the rates there are pretty high. I mean, they're about the same as the US but a bit higher in the private hospital setting which is where I was going to give birth.I didn't want to let that deter me, and I was determined to build my team. From when I was still here in the States, I started researching the best OBs and doctors in the area and hospitals. I found two in the city of San Jose which is where we were living, the two most quote unquote natural OBs.Another interesting thing I found out was that midwives are actually not legally permitted to work in Costa Rica independently.Meagan: Really?Maria: Yeah, at least back in 2018. I don't know if things have changed since then, but they are not allowed to work independently. They are allowed to work alongside an OB. So I was like, okay. I went with one of these OBs, and there was one midwife who practiced in the city of San Jose, and they worked together as a team. And so I was like, okay, all right, well, I guess this is it. I have my team, and I thought I was done. I don't think that I fully understood the intensity of birth or the mental and physical stamina that would be required of me because it was my first baby.Meagan: You don't know what you don't know.Maria: You don't know. Exactly. I took a Bradley birth course with my husband, and I just assumed that everything would be fine as long as I had a good team, and I'd be able to escape the dreaded cascade of interventions that I'd heard so much about. I wasn't informed, but I don't know. I was very intellectually informed, but I didn't really know how intense labor is. So intellectually, I knew what I had to do. But anyway, we were living abroad. I went into labor naturally at 40 weeks, and I had a very long labor which began in the middle of the night which was a common theme in all my birth. They always started in the middle of the night which I think is pretty common. And because it was my first baby and I was so excited, I was unable to really stay calm and rest.I got very ramped up way too soon.I burned through a lot of my energy in the first 24 hours of what I now know was very early labor. So by the time it was actually more intense and I made it to the hospital, I was exhausted because I slept so little. We get to the hospital and my labor slowed down, which again, I know is not uncommon, but I think I was also just not feeling very relaxed. I started actually feeling uncomfortable with this midwife /doula as she told me she was. She said, "I'm a midwife/doula." I later learned that is not a thing. It's like, either you're one or the other. I just didn't feel like she was really supporting me as I expected she would. It seemed to me like she wasn't really a doula. I started realizing, okay, this is not what I was expecting. She was more of a quasi-nurse, really, for the OB and just assisting him. She was like his private nurse, basically. She was sitting there in the room either watching me. She'd come in and give me a position, but then just sit back and she was on her phone. At least that's how I was perceiving it. I just started kind of not feeling very safe with her, and I just shut her out. In hindsight, I think I should have asked her to leave. But at the time, I didn't really know that I could do that, and that I could really advocate for myself in that way, so I just kind of shut her out. She probably felt that it just wasn't a good click. So then I began to feel pressure by the team because I'd been there for probably, what is it, maybe 8 hours or so? They started pressuring me to get things going. And so the OB approached me about using what they call natural oxytocin which is what they call Pitocin.Meagan: Pitocin, yeah.Maria: Yeah. But they're like, "No, no, it's natural oxytocin." And I was like, "Okay, I know what that is." I could already see that I was being slowly kind of backed into this corner. I refused it several times, but I finally agreed to it. Of course, my contractions became excruciating, but I just was just determined to not have the epidural so that I could walk, even though I was already plugged into the IV and really not walking as free as I wanted. Eventually, one of the nurses, after a while, came in and she asked me when the last time I peed was. I couldn't remember. That's when I was like, "Oh yeah, it's been a long time." Nobody reminded me. I just didn't think about it. I had been drinking water, so they had me try, and I just couldn't pee. It's like my body just kind of shut down. So they decided to try and insert a catheter to see if it would empty my bladder and help baby descend. So I was laying on the bed. I had five people around me trying to place this catheter in me. I was on Pitocin, so I was having these intense contractions, and they weren't able to insert it. They said it was because of the way my body was. I guess my urethra was towards the back or something, and they just weren't able to do it. That was really disappointing because I was really hoping that that would be the magic thing that would help baby descend. Finally, the OB came in and was like, "Listen, if you want to avoid a C-section, you should just do an epidural so that your body can relax, and maybe that could help us place up the catheter and then, baby will descend." I was like, "Okay, all right. Let's do it." They did it. It felt amazing for a couple of minutes, and then immediately, my baby's heart rate dropped. The OB basically just called in an emergency, and I was whisked off to the operating room for an emergency C-section. I was traumatized because I legitimately thought I was dying. I thought it was a true emergency. I was like, oh my gosh. I can't believe it. I'm gonna die. Of course, I've learned since then that a baby's heart dropping after an epidural is pretty common.Meagan: Pretty common, yeah.Maria: And that it wasn't really a true emergency that merited a C-section right then and there. That's been a really hard thing to process.Meagan: And frustrating, too, because he was like, "If you want to avoid a Cesarean, this is what you have to do," and then you did that, and then it immediately went that way.Maria: Yeah. I honestly thought he was. I think he was probably just prepping me in advance to just have the epidural so we could just go there.Meagan: Yeah, that's hard.Maria: Yeah. After baby was born, the hospital policy required me to go into the post-op room for 30 minutes to recover, and I would then be rejoined with my baby.Meagan: Oh, so your baby wasn't allowed to be with you?Maria: No. Meagan: What?Maria: Yeah. So my first 30 minutes as a mom, I was separated from my baby. He was with my husband. I was taken to this room where I was recovering alongside other people that I didn't know who were also recovering from other types of surgeries.Meagan: Whoa.Maria: Yeah, so I was like on this bed paralyzed still because of the epidural and shivering. It was a really surreal moment because I felt like, oh my gosh. I just had a baby. Wait, why am I here? What is happening? It was really, really traumatizing, and that was just their policy at that hospital. So it was really traumatizing for me. I was eventually joined back with my husband and baby, but needless to say, it really affected me.I did struggle with postpartum depression and anxiety for a long time. I had a very hard time bonding with my baby for that first year. I felt really robbed of that dream birth I had envisioned, and I felt robbed about the golden hour right after when you get to enjoy your baby and celebrate the fact you just had a baby. I felt like I never got that.Meagan: That would be very difficult. There are a lot of people who get their babies taken away, and it is so frustrating. I just wanted to give a little reminder that if you don't have your baby and you want your baby, it's okay to demand your baby and find someone who will do anything in their power to get that baby back to you.Maria: Yeah, so that was my first birth. So the second birth took place about two years later, and we were back in the US due to the pandemic. As soon as I found out I was pregnant, I was actually in Costa Rica when I found out I was pregnant, and then we moved back to the US halfway through my pregnancy. I just knew without a shadow of a doubt that I was going to try for VBAC. I was extremely confident that I could do it because I felt that if I found a truly supportive provider, there just was no reason why it wouldn't go smoothly. I had a lot of unprocessed anger and trauma that I hadn't fully worked through. I was still very angry at my OB, at the midwife, at the hospital, even though I did do therapy actually in Costa Rica, but I don't think I fully worked through this part. Even though none of it was truly 100% their fault, I still felt really let down, and of course, I felt anger at myself even for my perceived failure of my body to birth my baby. My way, at the time, of avoiding a repeat of this was to just completely avoid the hospital setting and go the complete opposite direction. So I opted for full midwifery care and home birth. I just didn't want anything to do with the hospital. It was traumatic. I was like, no hospital. At the time, we were living at my parents' home in their hometown. I basically hired the only midwife that I knew in town. I didn't really interview anyone else. I just went with her. I think in my mind at the time, as long as you were a midwife, she would be 100% better than an OB. Again, I was very angry at OB at the time. But also, I did meet the midwifery team and they seemed experienced and I liked them, so I felt really confident that everything would work out like it was going to work out. There was no plan B. Meagan: Yeah. Maria: In terms of preparing for my birth, I didn't really do much outside of remaining active. I did prenatal workouts. I walked. I was healthy. I thought that was pretty much what you had to do. I just thought again that not being in a hospital would solve all my problems, and that was the only ingredient I was missing for my dream birth, which, of course, I later learned was just part of the equation.So this time, my labor started actually pretty slowly. I had a premature rupture of membranes. It was a very slow trickle. It took over 24 hours of that for my labor to actually start. That was even after some homeopathic pellets. I don't really know what it was, but my midwife gave it to me and some castor oil that I took. I'm a pretty anxious person, so I was getting very anxious about my labor not starting because I had it in my head that I couldn't go too long without my water breaking. In my mind, I was on this timeline. I don't do well under pressure, so right off the bat, I was already in my head about it.Meagan: Yeah.Maria: I was so antsy to get labor going that I just wouldn't let myself rest. I actually went walking in the middle of the night with my husband instead of trying to rest. I was like, I will get this labor to start. I was just not really saving my energy. I was getting revved up again too soon. So again, once labor got going, I was exhausted.This time, I'd opted to give birth at my parents' home which in hindsight was probably not the best idea because I felt their presence in the home. I'd sense their worry and their concern over me, at least in my head. I was mostly in their bedroom, so I started getting claustrophobic in there. I felt like a caged lion at one point. I was like, ah. Now nobody was actually pressuring me, but I felt it. I just felt like my whole family knew I was in labor. Everyone was waiting for me. Again, hindsight is 20-20, right? I was like, man, I could have asked them to just leave for a while, but I just didn't feel like I could.Meagan: Yeah, it's their house. It's their house. It's their space. Yeah, it's weird. But I will just point out that who you have in your space and where you labor can impact your labor for sure because you're in your head.Maria: Yes, 100%. It took me two labors to learn that. Especially if you're a sensitive person and feel energy and if you're anxious, you have to be really aware of is somebody helping you or not? And if they are re not, then you can say you can ask them to leave. I just didn't know that I could do that.Anyway, I powered through it. Even despite that, I think labor was better in my home than it was at the hospital. I definitely felt more comfortable. I was more free. I was trying all these different positions and shower, bathtub, you know, everything. I felt really powerful. It was really positive at first. It was, despite the fact that I was really tired too. But it was a very long labor. Once again, my body shut down and I could not pee even though everybody was trying to remind me to go. I was trying to go, and there just came a point when my body just stopped wanting to go. We got to that point where they were like, "Okay, well let's try and place a catheter." They were not able to do it. I guess I have a very small urethra or something. Something happens in my body during labor. It's hard to get to it. This was a home birth, so they had their equipment on hand. They didn't have all the options that maybe they would have in a hospital of different sizes or something, so they just weren't able to place it. It was very, very disappointing. They also felt that I was getting weak, and I didn't want to eat anymore. They hooked me up to an IV. They gave me oxygen. This started triggering this fear in me that this was heading in a direction that I didn't like. It wasn't feeling like the peaceful home birth I had envisioned. I eventually got to 10 centimeters, and they said I could start pushing even though I didn't really feel much of an urge to push but I was like, okay, I'm 10 centimeters. I guess I'll try pushing. I started pushing for multiple hours, but the baby just wasn't descending. And at one point, the midwife could see the baby's head higher up, and she actually attempted to pull the baby out with her hands.Meagan: Kind of went in like a soft forceps.Maria: Yeah, exactly. It was very painful. Super traumatic. I was like, oh, my gosh. This is not what I envisioned. But she wasn't able to do it. He was just too high up. After that, I just remember seeing her throw up her hands and with her body just kind of say, I give up. There was nothing more that she could do for me. At that moment, with a surprising amount of clarity and conviction, I decided to call it and request to be transferred to the only hospital in my town that accepted VBAC, any other hospital would have had me go straight for a C-section. So this was my last chance because I wasn't done trying to VBAC. I was like, okay, home birth isn't gonna happen, but maybe VBAC will at a hospital. And so, we got to the hospital. When I got to triage, they checked me, and they actually said I was nowhere near complete and that I was 8 centimeters dilated, and that I was very swollen.Meagan: That's what I was gonna just ask. I'm wondering if you got swollen.Maria: I was definitely very swollen, but they also said I wasn't 10 centimeters. I was like, "What? What do you mean?" Because in my mind, I was like, I'm almost there. I'm 10 centimeters. Maybe all I need is an epidural maybe. Maybe I just need that final little push. At that point, I was okay with drugs. I was like, "Give me whatever." I'm so close, right?Meagan: Yeah, yeah.Maria: But no, they were like, "No, you're 8 centimeters." And also, my contractions had really spaced out, so they gave me an epidural. They gave me Pitocin, and they let me rest.Meagan: Did they give you a catheter and empty your bladder?Maria: Yes, they gave me a catheter to empty my bladder, but baby was just not coming down. And also, the epidural did not sit well with my baby again. They didn't whisk me away to a C-section this time, but they were starting to bring up, "Okay, it's been a long time." They also were pretty concerned that my water had broken two days before, and that was a big red flag for them. They started mentioning C-section as the safest route for me. After, I don't know, probably 8 hours there, I just kind of said, "Okay, let's just do a C-section, and we just went with it." This time was less traumatic because it wasn't an emergency. I chose it. I was also never separated from my baby, and that was very huge.Meagan: Yes.Maria: That was huge. Yeah, 100%. Like, I got to carry him immediately after birth. I was able to breastfeed him. I was like, nobody is separating me from this baby right now, and they didn't. So that was very healing, and I was very grateful for that. That was that birth. After the birth, the midwives did come to see me at my house, and when I asked them what happened, they weren't really able to give me an answer. The final consensus was that my hips were likely too narrow. At the time, this diagnosis actually gave me comfort because at that point--Meagan: It validated you.Maria: Yeah, it validated me. I felt like, okay, I tried everything. It felt like an answer. It was a neat and clean end to this journey. There was a lot of mourning still. It was a heavy weight on me, this disappointment of a failed VBAC and something that I would need to process for a long time because I felt really cheated. I really felt like I'd run an entire marathon, and that I could see the finish line only to find myself pulled back to the starting line again and have to run another marathon.I felt like I had gone through two whole births, the super intense home birth and then C-section. So I felt like, oh my gosh. I was wiped out. So, yeah. Those are my two C-sections.Meagan: Yeah. I mean, lots of really forward-moving progress with the second for sure and still work to be done. But also, you had some validation for you at the time. It felt better. Overall, it went better.Maria: Yeah, yeah, yeah. It definitely was better. It was better, but it was, in a way, almost more frustrating though because I got so close. I was like, I'm so close and yet I was pulled back to the exact opposite birth.Meagan: Yeah. I want to talk a little bit about swelling because swelling can happen. You can be 10 centimeters. Swelling can happen. It causes puffiness and causes our cervix to swell which then presents as not 10 centimeters. There are a lot of different factors like a baby that is maybe not putting equal pressure on the cervix during pushing or pushing before our body is really ready for us or going in there and doing that, I call it, soft forceps. This is just me making this up, but my fingers are a lot softer than forceps. So her doing some soft forceps was in effort to help baby come down and move but could have disturbed the cervix a little bit and then sitting in on the way. So I just wanted to point out that is it possible that you could have been 10 centimeters? Yes. Is it possible that swelling could have caused the regression? Yes, there are some hem-- oh my gosh. How do you say it? Hemopathic. Is that how you say it? Hemopathic. They're little tablets.Maria: Homeopathic.Meagan: Homeopathic. Why do I say hemeo all the time? Homeopathics. Just like they had given you those little tablets that can actually help with swelling of the cervix. So if you have a midwife or you want to look into that and have that in your bag at the hospital, if that happens, you might want to check that out. While you're telling your third story, I will see if I can find the exact name because I cannot place it in my mind right now, but I've seen midwives use it, so that's another thing. And then sometimes Benadryl. A lot of the time, I'll see moms be given Benadryl for swelling.Maria: Yeah, I don't think they gave me any of that. I think at the hospital they were just kind of like, "Oh, 48 hours. Okay, let's--".Meagan: Yeah, the typical.Maria: And yeah. I think they knew from the beginning probably that I'd end up in a C-section. I don't know.Meagan: Might have. Yeah. So baby one, baby two. How did things change with baby number three?Maria: Everything changed. So when I found out I was pregnant for the third time, I, was very surprised and excited. But as soon as I actually thought about the birth you, I felt dread. I knew I was out of options mostly because my fate had been sort of sealed with this diagnosis of narrow hips. I was pretty much certain that my only choice was a third C-section. That really filled me with dread because I had a really rough recovery with my second C-section. I was really unhappy with my scar. I just felt really not looking forward to a third C-section. So I was like, okay. It felt very scary. I decided to approach my husband about trying for a VBAC again. I was sort of certain he would be nervous about supporting me about that. I felt like it was gonna be like, "Maria, you've tried twice. Let's just accept it. Let's move on." But surprisingly, he was actually supportive and he told me to just start with doing some research about VBACs after two and to get some opinions. So I did. The first thing I actually did though was I looked into gentle C-sections because I was like, "Okay, I'm going to get my kind of worst-case scenarios out of the way just in case. If I'm going to have a C-section, I want it on my terms." I looked up the best gentle C-section OB in the area. I was like, "Okay, I've got something there." Then I reached out to my midwife for my second birth and asked for her opinion about going for a VBAC again. I reached out to a few birth centers in the area, and my midwife pretty much told me that she did not think I was a good candidate for VBAC again and that I would end up likely in a C-section. Again, because she was like, "You did everything you could. It just didn't work. I just don't think you're a good candidate." And then most of the birth centers in the area declined me because they only did the VBACs after one.Meagan: After one. Yeah.Maria: Only two birth centers in the area accepted VBAC after two. I was like, "Okay, I'm gonna go see one of them and just get a second midwife opinion."Meagan: Yeah.Maria: When I got there, this place inspired a lot of peace and comfort. It was this really cozy little space. It was a little cottage near hospital. The midwife I met with, her name is Galyn. Can we give you the name?Meagan: Yeah, yeah. Uh-huh.Maria: Yeah. So this is called The Family Birth Center. It's just amazing and Galyn is amazing. So she just was very confident. I told her my entire birth story. I was sure to add every single complication and also tell her what my previous midwife had said. I honestly painted a really dire picture for her. I was like, "I have really long labors. I can't pee." You know, blah, blah, blah. I was prepared for her to tell me that I was not a big candidate. Honestly, I almost wanted her to say that so that I could just close that chapter and go get my scheduled gentle C-section and move on because that felt easier and safer. Yet her response was not a no. It was actually a non-hesitant, "Absolutely, you can do this." I was shocked. I mean, she obviously asked for my op-reports and everything, but she said that she didn't see why I wouldn't be able to. She had a ton of experience with VBAC after multiple C-sections. She even said that she had a very special place in her heart for these mamas because, as she called us warrior mamas, who really, really wanted it. She did not believe that I was too narrow because that's actually quite rare. She thought it was likely that the baby was simply badly positioned. So right off the bat, she was like, "Okay, I would start you on some Vitamin C to strengthen your bag," which I didn't even know a thing. She was like, "Pelvic floor therapy right off the bat, and you need a proper doula." I was like, "Yes, yes, yes." I'll do all those things because I realized I had not really had a proper doula in my previous birth. And honestly, every concern or worry that I brought up, she was able to talk through it with me, provide a solution or just remind me that no birth is the same. She couldn't really control or predict the outcome of the birth but there were lots of things that we did have control over.One of the things that I was really worried about was my inability to pee during labor. She was like, "Okay well, we'll place a catheter." I was like, "Yeah, but they tried both times and it didn't happen." And she was like, "Well, I'll get you a really tiny one." I was like, "Okay." So she didn't seem worried about that. I just went with it and went with her confidence. I think I decided then and there that I wanted her because I just felt really heard and I don't know. She provided lots of practical and realistic solutions that we could control. Anyway, this time around, I hired a doula. Shout out to Jenna, my doula. Also an amazing, amazing woman. I went to pelvic floor therapy. I also did therapy again to process my past births. I worked really, really hard on radically accepting whatever this birth came to be. So unlike my first two births where I had a really rigid idea of what it would be, this time I worked really hard to just sort of surrender to whatever it ended up being. I also read several books, including how to Heal From a Bad Birth.Meagan: Yes.Maria: A really good book, and Birthing From Within which I also loved. It was a really impactful book, actually. I started doing some art therapy just to process some of my feelings and just about this pregnancy and birth. I listened to every single episode you guys had on VBAC after two. I took The VBAC Link course. Honestly, I hardly worked out mostly because I had two little boys under four, and I just did not have it in me. But I was still very active with just normal life and taking care of two little kids. I did walk a bunch and did some gentle, prenatal yoga. I also did some exercises recommended by my doula from Spinning Babies. The other thing which was different was that I was really mindful of my body positioning throughout my pregnancy. I was always trying to listen to my body and be mindful of my alignment. When I was watching TV or sitting at my desk, I'd sit on a ball. I'd sit on the floor. I love to go on my hands and knees. That felt really good on my back. So just kind of listening to what my body was asking me to do and just being more aware of my body. My whole motto was, throughout the whole time was, "Get out of my head into my body." Preparation felt really different for me this time. I felt like I was preparing my body from the inside out physically speaking. Like I said, I was going to pelvic floor therapy. I was also making room in my uterus for my baby with these exercises to be in the best position possible but I was also really focused on my mind, my spirit, processing all my fears, my traumas. It felt just so much more holistic. I did HypnoBirthing with an app. I wrote down my own prayer affirmations which actually became a really central anchor during my labor. I felt just really ready this time in a new way. And not just because of my dream team but because I was really just ready to surrender to whatever was to come. And also, what was driving me was this new goal which was this idea of just giving my body a chance to labor was the best thing both for me and my baby regardless of the outcome of the birth. Even if it ended up in a C-section, I was still doing what was best for my body and my baby. That's what I kept repeating to myself. It just gave me a lot of peace because the success of this birth was not tied to what kind of birth it was. You know what I mean?Meagan: Yes, yes.Maria: It removed a lot of that pressure, a lot of that fear, and that was just such a game changer for me. Yeah, that was the preparation. A few weeks before the birth, I'd been starting to get more intense Braxton Hicks, but nothing really consistent. I was really just trying to practice the art of basically ignoring them because my goal for my early labor was to just pretend like they weren't happening. I didn't want to get too excited too fast. I wanted to ignore them for as long as possible especially if they started in the middle of the night which is kind of a theme for me. It ended up being really great practice to do that because on Labor Day, of course, I started getting my first contraction at 2:00AM and I just denied it. I was like, nope, they're Braxton Hicks. I just wasn't allowing myself to get riled up. I managed miraculously to doze off for 20 minutes at a time until they started coming on stronger. Once I realized that this was early labor, I had decided before that I wanted to labor alone for a while. This was actually something that I'd been wanting to do just to have this early early labor be a sacred moment for me and my baby. I wanted to be able to pray, to talk to my baby and to prepare together for the work which we would be doing together, both of us. I went into the living room. I let my husband sleep a bit longer, and it was a really special time for me. I'm so happy that I did that.Meagan: Yeah, I was just going to say that is a very powerful moment. Our babies are so connected and if you can have any time, even if it's just like 20 minutes. "Hey, I'm going to the bathroom." Take 20 minutes in the bathroom and connect with your baby. I just think it's so powerful.Maria: Yeah. Yes. It was amazing because I did feel connected the whole labor in a way that I did not in my previous ones where I was very disconnected to what was happening in my body. I was in my head a lot. So at about 6:00am, my contractions were getting stronger and I was like, okay, it's a reasonable time. I'm going to go ahead and wake my husband up. I also knew that my boys would be waking up soon, so I wanted my husband to focus on them and get them breakfast. And then I explained to my boys that baby was coming soon, that they were going to go stay with their cousins for a night or two. I knew that I wasn't going to be able to fully relax if they were still in the house. It felt really important for me to say goodbye and to make sure that they were going to be happy and in a safe place. As soon as my brother-in-law picked them up, I just really felt my body, okay, let go and things just started picking up. I took a shower. I had breakfast. I knew it would probably be a very long labor, so I wanted to eat. I called my doula. She came over and her presence was just such a game changer because she was just this calm, comforting presence. Not to say my husband was not, but she's just more-- this is her job. She's more objective. She was able to suggest different positions. She knew when to let me be. She pushed me when I had to be pushed and let me be when I had to be left alone. But the best thing she did was she did not let me head to the birth center too soon. I wanted to go and she'd be like, "Okay, let's just wait for 30 more minutes. Can you do 30 more minutes? Yeah, let's try this position. Let's walk a little bit. Let's do this and that." That was so important because I would have gotten there way too soon. She and my husband were in touch with Galyn, the midwife. Everyone was just super chill and relaxed. Everyone ate lunch. I don't think I did, but everyone else did. It was just a nice day. It was a cool rainy day. And then at about 2:00 PM my contractions were about 2-3 minutes apart. They were lasting about a minute, and they were getting intense. I was like, "Okay, I need to go." They were like, "Okay, yeah, let's go." We got to the birth center. I was just wrapped in this fluffy blanket. I just picked it up like I was in this daze. I was listening to my HypnoBirthing app. And Galyn, she was so relaxed about everything. Everyone was just very relaxed. It was during the daytime. She'd come in. She'd leave. I got in the bathtub at point. At one point, she checked my dilation and asked me if I wanted to know. And I said, "Nope, I don't want to know because I don't want to get in my head." She was like, "Even if you're 9 centimeters?" And I was like, "No." Okay. That was so amazing. That was such a push of encouragement. And so that was very helpful. Once again, I ran into the issue of being unable to pee. Of course, not surprisingly. So Galyn asked me want if I wanted a catheter. I said, "Okay, let's try it," but I was super nervous about it.Meagan: Yeah.Maria: But this time it was super easy. It was amazing. It went in right away. She had the right size. I don't know what it was, but--Meagan: Right size, pelvic PT.Maria: Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was easy. I had a ton of pee. After that I was like, oh, my gosh. I surpassed these two huge obstacles of being really well-dilated and also, an empty bladder. Like, I got this. It's amazing. I felt this new surge of energy. After that, I just focused on one contraction at a time. Each one lasted four breaths for me. Each breath coincided with a short prayer that I would say to myself. The hardest breaths were always breath two and three because it was the peak of the contraction. But I knew the pattern in it, and so I knew what to expect. I just remember opening my hands every time and surrendering and just trying to just relax my body and just accept it, and let it wash over me. I was doing a lot of visualization of my body, my pelvis opening, my baby coming down. I was so connected to my body and my baby. I just remember communicating with her and visualizing her coming closer to me. And this, like I said, was something so new for me, this connection. After about two hours of labor, there I was fully dilated. They had me do some focused pushing. Unfortunately, I never really felt that overwhelming urge to push that I'd read so much about and that I had wanted to feel. My pushing was more directed, but it felt a lot less forced than with my second birth. I decided to push on the bed on my hands and knees. My husband and doula were each holding a hand. Galyn was encouraging me. Every time I pushed and she would feel the baby come down, she'd let me know. That was really encouraging to know that it was productive pushing. I was just so focused. After about 40 minutes of pushing, she told me, "Okay, the next push, you're going to feel a burn." Before I knew it, it was the ring of fire I'd heard so much about. Although it was painful, I was just in awe that I was feeling it. I was like, oh my gosh, this means something. I'm so close. It was surreal. I was experiencing it in this weird, out-of-body way. And then the next push, baby was born. I was just in shock. I couldn't believe it. I couldn't fully believe that I did it. They passed her to me immediately. I was still on my hands and knees. I will just never, ever forget the feel of her body and her skin when I held her for the first time. It was the birth of my dreams. I think one of the other things I just loved was just that time afterwards that I never got to experience and that moment of coziness where we were just laying in this queen bed, my husband and I and my baby, and just eating together, holding her immediately, breastfeeding her like it was just a dream. I got to take a bath with some healing herbs. It was amazing. And then, after several hours, we just drove home with our baby.Meagan: Just amazing. That is what birth is about right there. All of those feelings, all of those smells and experiences and bonding moments. I am so happy for you. Let's just say you debunked the myth. Your pelvis was great. Your pelvis and your hips were just fine. It really just took someone educated to know that your baby was in a poor position and that okay, instead of doing this size catheter, let's do a smaller catheter. It's just these little things that made such a big difference. I think it's really important to vet our providers when we are interviewing them. I love that you were like, I gave her all the bad. Like, all of it. I just laid it on her. I wanted her to know everything that I was being told or that was said or that had been done. And then for her to be like, "Okay yeah, I hear those. I see these op-reports, but still don't believe there's anything that makes you not be able to," is just so powerful. So those are the types of providers, and if there really, really, really is a medical reason, they can back it up. "Okay, let's consider something." But I do love that you just came in with all of it, just all of it, and expecting her to be like, "No." And then when she said yes, you're like, "Wait, what?"Maria: What?Meagan: "Wait, what? Can you repeat that?" We really are getting more of that flack and doubt, so it's so great to hear that there's such a supportive provider out there in your area because every area needs it. I would love to see more support coming in because the fact of the matter is, it can happen. It can happen. It is possible, and really, the risk is relatively low, right? It's low, and it's something. And then we do know that to some people, it's not acceptable, and that's okay. But know that the risk is relatively low and that the world paints it to be so much bigger than it is.Maria: Right. Well and also, nobody talks about the risks of repeat sections. Right? Nobody mentions it. I'm like, why is this not being even mentioned at all?Meagan: We talk about it here because it isn't talked about. We have providers say, "Oh, uterine rupture, uterine rupture this and that," but they're not like, "Hey, dense adhesions connecting to your bladder for life, scar tissue gaining for life, back pain that you may discover in your 50s that is related to your Cesarean adhesions and pain." And then, not to mention there are a lot of things like hysterectomy, increased blood loss. You guys, there are things to talk about and complications that can come forth in the future pregnancies as well. We don't talk about those to scare you. We don't talk about uterine rupture here to scare you. We don't talk about uterine rupture or share uterine rupture stories to scare you. We are here to educate you. We want you to know there are pros and cons on both sides. If you find a provider who is all about sharing the risk about VBAC instead of repeat Cesarean, you might not want to be with that provider because there are risks for both sides so if you're getting a one-sided risk, there are some concerns there.Maria: Yeah. Yeah, exactly.Meagan: Well, thank you again so much for sharing your stories. Congratulations. I'm so happy that you found the right provider. You found the dream team. Everyone was on your side and supporting you along the way.Maria: Thank you, Meagan. Again, I think that's only one part of the equation. We as the moms have that other responsibility of really healing ourselves and our past traumas and doing more than just, I guess, working out. A lot of people don't think about the inner work that we have to make for our pelvic floor and even the uterus with making space for your baby in there for optimal positioning. I never heard of these things before you. All of that knowledge was very helpful.Meagan: Yeah, there's a lot of work. Before we started recording you were like, "With my second birth, I just hired a midwife and put it in her hands and was like, hey, I did the work. I hired a midwife," but there's so much more than that. And yeah, finding a supportive provider, getting the education, but there's so much work. We talk about this in our VBAC course-- mental and physical prep. We talk about it early on in the book because it is such a big part of how things can go and if we don't do those things, it can impact us. That doesn't mean you can't get through it and have a VBAC. I don't want to say if you don't go to therapy, you won't get a VBAC or if you don't do these things, but these things will impact you in a positive way more than a negative. I also want to talk about trauma and birth and going through and working through it from the inside out. It's not even birth. It's life. It's affecting us for life. We hold trauma in our body. We hold emotions. We pent them up and yeah, it's just you. We gotta work through them. We can't just shove them in and be like, "Well, that was that. I'll let it go," because it's not going to be let go. It's inside of us.Maria: Yeah.Meagan: Yeah. It'll show up. It will show up. It might be years. It might be months, you never know, but it's important to work through it. Okay, well I will not take any more of your time because I know you've already been with me for a bit, and I just wanna thank you again.Maria: Thank you so much, Meagan. It's been such an honor.ClosingWould you like to be a guest on the podcast? Tell us about your experience at thevbaclink.com/share. For more information on all things VBAC including online and in-person VBAC classes, The VBAC Link blog, and Meagan's bio, head over to thevbaclink.com. Congratulations on starting your journey of learning and discovery with The VBAC Link.Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/the-vbac-link/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

Welcome back to our weekend Cabral HouseCall shows! This is where we answer our community's wellness, weight loss, and anti-aging questions to help people get back on track! Check out today's questions:    Kristina: My seven year old son had a strange episode at school that mimicked a stroke. The school nurse called and described my son's situation to me. His right leg, right arm and right side of his face were heavy and hard to move. He was unable to articulate what was going on. Ended up in ER where he had a CT scan. We followed up with an EEG a couple days later. All came back normal and they are guessing he had a hemipalegic migraine because everything resolved with no residual side effects. I'm curious what you know about these types of migraines and how to not experience any again.   Renta: Hi Dr Cabral, thank you for your help. I’m a 38 year old woman who is healthy. I eat well, keep toxic products out of my home and lift weights 2-3 times per week. I’ve been dealing with this problem for over 2 years now and I don’t know what else to do. I have not had any c**id vX and had c**id in October 2021. During that week that I was sick I had my period. The main symptom I had was really extreme headaches. I don’t know if it’s linked to c**id but since then almost every period begins with a headache that can last 1-3 days. It is localised pain that I can pinpoint at the base of my head on the left side. It radiates up my head over my forehead and down into my eye socket. I also need to urinate frequently when this happens. Sometimes it might happen the week before my period.   Maria: It is very difficult to find a Biological dentist in Mass, can you provide a list?   Drew: Dr Cabral, Two years ago I ran the starter kit and started on the daily nutritional support shake in the morning and added in the B complex in the afternoon per the coaches recommendation. After a while I noticed that taking the B complex in the afternoon would make me feel like I had drank too much coffee and I would be on edge. I stopped taking the B complex and continued the DNS in the mornings. After about 6 to 9 months (not really sure of the exact time frame) I began to get the same feeling after my morning smoothie with the DNS. Wanting to stay on a multivitamin I went to a new company multi and got that same feeling; like I drank too much coffee. I am assuming that this feeling has something to do with the B vitamins. Can you help me understand what may be going on?   Erin: Hello Dr. Cabral, can you speak to EMF protectors for AirPods? I know the most ideal option is to use traditional headphones, but for those unwilling to forego wireless is this a legitimate option? More specifically, would love a product review on the Bodywell brand. Thanks!   Thank you for tuning into today's Cabral HouseCall and be sure to check back tomorrow where we answer more of our community's questions!    - - - Show Notes and Resources: StephenCabral.com/2983 - - - Get a FREE Copy of Dr. Cabral's Book: The Rain Barrel Effect - - - Join the Community & Get Your Questions Answered: CabralSupportGroup.com - - - Dr. Cabral's Most Popular At-Home Lab Tests: > Complete Minerals & Metals Test (Test for mineral imbalances & heavy metal toxicity) - - - > Complete Candida, Metabolic & Vitamins Test (Test for 75 biomarkers including yeast & bacterial gut overgrowth, as well as vitamin levels) - - - > Complete Stress, Mood & Metabolism Test (Discover your complete thyroid, adrenal, hormone, vitamin D & insulin levels) - - - > Complete Food Sensitivity Test (Find out your hidden food sensitivities) - - - > Complete Omega-3 & Inflammation Test (Discover your levels of inflammation related to your omega-6 to omega-3 levels) - - - Get Your Question Answered On An Upcoming HouseCall: StephenCabral.com/askcabral - - - Would You Take 30 Seconds To Rate & Review The Cabral Concept? The best way to help me spread our mission of true natural health is to pass on the good word, and I read and appreciate every review!  

Upcoming Event!How Can Mindfulness Help You Reach Financial Independence?Do you want to reduce money anxiety, but don't know who to trust?Would you like to learn how to set up and manage your own retirement plan?Do you want to know how we create a passive income stream you can't outlive?If yes, join us and learn how to answer the 4 critical financial independence questions:Am I on track for financial independence?What do I need to do to get on track?How do I design a mindful investing portfolio?How do I manage that portfolio and my income over time through changing markets?Learn more: https://courses.mindful.money/financial-independence-bootcampMaria Brito is an award-winning New York based contemporary art advisor, entrepreneur, author and curator. She was selected by Complex Magazine as one of the twenty power players in the art world and Art News says, ‘she's one of the visionaries shaping that world.' A Harvard graduate, originally from Venezuela, her first monograph “Out There” published by Pointed Leaf Press in 2013, was the recipient of the USA Best Book Awards in both the Art and Design Categories. Today, Maria joins the show to discuss working with Diddy and Gweneth Paltrow, entrepreneurship, and common misconceptions about creativity.

In the fall of 2019, Maria Dominique Lopez was in a trance state while meditating and felt strong tingling in her palms. She had no idea what the tingling in her hands meant, or why every time she touched someone in pain, their pain went away. After months of research, she decided to take her first Reiki course and learned that what she was experiencing was Reiki. Now it is her mission to help a new generation come to consciousness and ascend to their own universal calling.   Learn more about Maria Dominique Lopez at AscendingArts.exchange. Maria's interview is followed by a story about the Power of Resilience by Elena Christopoulos, the founder of a sustainability management consulting firm, Elena's contributions have helped create over 500,000+ green jobs worldwide with 60% of the positions going to women and BIPOC. As a climate scientist and political advisor, she has actively worked throughout her career to bring more women and BIPOC to the table, in both fields and has successfully managed over 40 political and environmental campaigns worldwide. As a Commissioner for the City of Santa Monica her role is to advise City Council on sustainability issues and policies relevant to women and girls. As a member of the LGBTQIA+ community, She uses her voice to ensure we are represented. Our episode ends with a guided mediation from Maria Dominique Lopez.   IN THIS EPISODE [01:03] Maria Dominique Lopez on what she is most passionate about [01:26] Maria Dominique Lopez on her work [02:11] Maria Dominique Lopez on her childhood and spiritual beginnings [04:36] Maria Dominique Lopez on remembering her Reiki awakening [05:09] Maria Dominique Lopez on the beginning of her meditation journey [08:40] Maria Dominique Lopez on the origin of Reiki [11:35] Maria Dominique Lopez on how she began practicing Reiki [14:11] Maria Dominique Lopez on the benefits of Reiki [15:45] Maria Dominique Lopez on how often she performs Reiki [17:47] Maria Dominique Lopez on one's first experience of Reiki [18:30] Maria Dominique Lopez on what she has learned from practicing Reiki [22:53] Maria Dominique Lopez on her background in opera [27:44] Maria Dominique Lopez on advice to her younger self [29:02] Maria Dominique Lopez on a trait that has helped her succeed [33:50] Maria Dominique Lopez on her biggest professional challenge [34:53] Maria Dominique Lopez on the most rewarding part of her life practice [35:51] Maria Dominique Lopez on her dream for women [36:39] Maria Dominique Lopez on her mantra [36:48] Maria Dominique Lopez on her definition of success [37:19] Maria Dominique Lopez on her advice to young women [38:56] Elena Christopoulos on the power of resilience [46:45] Maria Dominique Lopez leads a guided meditation   TRANSCRIPT Passionistas: Hi, we're sisters Amy and Nancy Harrington, the founders of The Passionistas Project, where we give women a platform to tell their own unfiltered stories. On every episode, we discuss the unique ways in which each woman is following her passions, talk about how she defines success, and explore her path to breaking down the barriers that women too often face. Today we'll be talking with Maria Dominique Lopez. In the fall of 2019, Maria was in a trance state while meditating and felt strong tingling in her palms. She had no idea what the tingling in her hands meant, or why every time she touched someone in pain, their pain went away. After months of research, she decided to take her first Reiki course and learned that what she was experiencing was Reiki. Now it is her mission to help a new generation come to consciousness and ascend to their own universal calling. So please welcome Maria Dominique Lopez. Maria: Hi. Thank you so much for having me. Passionistas: We're really excited to hear more about this. What are you most passionate about? Maria: Healing. I'm most passionate about healing, absolutely a thousand percent. There's so much of my life that has been changed and altered since I started my own healing journey, and now I help people embark on theirs every day, and it's, oh, it's the most amazing work that I've ever done with my life, and I just, I so love it. Passionistas: What is that work that you do? Maria: So I work as an energy healer, doing performing Reiki mostly. I also am an intuitive energy reader, so I offer intuitive energy readings as well. I am a certified Reiki master and also a spiritual mentor, which is basically a fancy way of saying life coach without all of the homework or the rah rah shish boomba. We really, we really dive into the shadows of your life and work through the things that really need healing in ways that will promote specifically post-traumatic growth. So, that involves usually a spiritual practice of some kind. Passionistas: So, let's take a little step back and tell us a little bit about your childhood, where you were born, if you had even had any consciousness of any of this kind of stuff back then. Maria: Sure. So I was born in New London, Connecticut. My dad was stationed at the base there, the naval base, and I was born just off base. It was a pretty difficult pregnancy for my mom. There were a lot of health issues. And so I was born in the hospital off base, and then we actually only lived in Connecticut till I was three months old. My dad was medically discharged from the Navy as a hundred percent disabled veteran. And so then we moved to Seattle, Washington, where the majority of their family lived at the time; both of their sets of parents lived there. And so I was kind of raised there. And my dad actually was a professional ice hockey coach, so we ended up moving a lot. We moved from Washington to Mexico City where he built the Olympic hockey program for Mexico. We moved to Phoenix where he coached for the Tucson Road Runners, I think is what they used to be called. I don't know what they are now, but they were an IHL team. Then we moved to Houston, and he coached for the Houston Arrows for a little while. And then, you know, so we moved all over the place basically when I was a kid Was I conscious of Reiki as a child? The answer is yes, but accidentally. I didn't realize until I became a Reiki master. And I was meditating one day, and this memory came to me of when I was, I think I must have been maybe six or seven years old. And I was with my cousins, Janine and Desiree, and we would go picking blackberries. There were these wild blackberry brambles behind my grandma's house. And so in the summertimes we would go and we would pick all the blackberries we could possibly handle and, like, eat them all before we could even get them home. And we'd just covered in blackberry juice and just a total mess, you know. And so we were headed down the hill, back from the brambles to my grandmother's house, and my cousin Desiree fell. And I don't remember if she hurt her ankle or her knee, but I remember her falling and, like, twisting something and being hurt. And right then, I mean, I was like maybe seven, I think six, I knelt down and I put my hands on her, and I was like, “Okay, if I concentrate hard enough, I can take her pain away.” And of course, we were kids. You know, we laughed, we thought it was fun pretending, blah, blah, blah. Right? But even then, something about me understood that this was possible, and I totally forgot about it until about three years ago when I started practicing Reiki and I was like, “Oh my God, I've always been a Reiki healer, and I didn't even know it. Passionistas: That's incredible. That is so cool. Maria: Thank you. Passionistas: Does she remember that experience? Maria: She does. And I think at the time we both just laughed it off. You know, we just thought it was make believe and we didn't really, and I know, you know, she and Janine, they don't really ascribe or believe in Reiki now even. And so it's interesting that, like, we both remember that situation, and I became this Reiki healer, but it's still something that we haven't had the chance to try together yet since I've become a Reiki healer. So, hopefully some day. Passionistas: So, tell us about that journey. So, when did you first get into, I know you do meditation, so when did you first get into that practice and what inspired you to do that? Maria: Yeah, so, I got into meditation in about 2018, so several years now. And I started meditating because my best friend, one of my oldest friends. I've known him for over half my life. We were freshman undergrad musicians together. He was a professional percussionist and I was an opera singer. His name is Ben Irons, and he just published his first book, actually: “Mindfulness for Musicians.” So, that's kind of cool  —a little plug for my best friend there. But he actually taught me how to meditate. He'd been meditating for about 10 years at the time. And I kept saying things, “I need to meditate. I know I'll get around to it. Like, I wanna learn. I know I need to learn, I should learn how to meditate,” all these things, right? And finally one day, he was like, “Maria, why don't you?” And I said, “Well, you know, I gotta be honest, since we've become a little bit more vulnerable in our friendship, and I feel comfortable sharing this with you. I know it's silly, but I just, I'm worried I'm gonna be bad at it.” And he proceeded to laugh in my face, at my perfectionist ass. And he said, “Maria, there is no such thing as being bad at meditation.” He said, “You know, that's why they call it a meditation practice. They don't call it meditation Olympics. There's no gold medal to be won. There's no competition. There's no potential, like, quantifiable measurement of how good you are at it. It's just a practice.” He said, “Some days you'll have efficient days where you'll sit down on the cushion, and you'll tap right in, and you'll have this amazing 45 minute trancey meditation, and you're just gonna, like, fly to the stars. And some days you're gonna have less than efficient days where you're gonna sit down on the cushion, and you're not gonna be able to stop thinking about how your right toe itches, and you're gonna be running through your grocery store list in your head for the whole 30 minutes, and you're just gonna be counting every second wondering when you can get off the cushion.” He said, “On the efficient days, you're gonna learn a lot. On the less than efficient days, you're gonna learn even more. There is no way for you to screw this up.” And I think the perfectionist inside of me just needed someone to give me that permission. So I started the very next day. And I started with three minutes a day, and it was torture. And then I finally got up to about five minutes a day after a couple weeks, and that was even worse. And finally, after about three months of doing five minutes a day, I went back to him and I was like, “I can't, I can't get past five minutes a day. I don't know what to do.” And he was like, “All right, let me teach you a meditation that changed my meditation practice overnight, and it really, it changed my life.” And I was like, “Okay, yeah, gimme that magic pill. Give it to me.” And so he taught me the Mettā Bhāvanā. The Mettā Bhāvanā is from the Vipassana tradition of meditation, and it translates in Sanskrit to “loving kindness” in English. So, if you've ever done a loving kindness meditation, you've done the Mettā Bhāvanā And there are a million “loving kindness” meditations for free on YouTube. I highly suggest anyone who's listening to this, go check 'em out. They're incredible. But I started doing the Mettā Bhāvanā every day, and I immediately went from five minutes to 30 minutes and then to 45 minutes. In six months time, I was sitting every day for 45 minutes. And not only that, but in six months time, my entire, I was a totally different person, a completely different person. I went from being reactive in a miserable marriage that was failing, that was very verbally abusive from both sides, to becoming this person who was full of love and compassion, who became the healer that I became because of this practice. So it really, it changed the whole landscape of my future. This one thing. Passionistas: So, explain to people what Reiki is and how you—we told a little bit of your story in the intro—but how you became, how you started practicing it. Maria: So, Reiki is an indigenous shamanic Japanese Shinto healing practice based in the Shinto religion. It has, however, been whitewashed and colonized by the Western healing world, so much so that it is no longer associated with any of those practices, other than the fact that it is still associated with Japan—because Reiki is a Japanese word, meaning “universal life force.” And what it is, is it's this practice whereby practitioners place their hands onto a receiver, and the receiver has their energy basically balanced. So, from a scientific standpoint, what that means is, you and me and this computer that I'm talking to right now, and my cat and the moon and oxygen and literally everything in existence is all at the very—we're talking broad strokes of quantum mechanics now—at the very quantum level, we're all made up of the same matter, quantum matter, right? Just different conglomerations of the same matter. So, it's kind of like how that Aspen Forest in Utah is made up of 50,000 trees, but it's actually one tree. It's one of the largest organisms on earth, and it looks like 50,000 trees cuz they're all united under the ground by the same root system. Our root system—existence is root system, is quantum matter. We are all one giant organism, if you think about it from a quantum level. Mind you, quantum physics has now been as of, I think maybe like five or six years ago, the most proven science on Earth, which means that there have been more experiments done with more conclusive evidence to the same conclusion than chemistry, than biology. So we know for a scientific fact—you know, depending on how much you believe in science; I personally very much believe in science—but we know for a scientific fact that we live in a quantum universe, and that we are, in fact, one quantum organism. So with that understanding ,what Reiki actually is, is quantum healing. I channel quantum matter that is around you and in you, more of that into you. I'm not giving you my energy. I'm like a meat straw through which the energy flows. I'm just like the lido deck director being like, “Here, right this way to your energy,” right? So, in that in that sense, I don't get exhausted when I give Reiki. It doesn't hurt me. It doesn't drain me. It actually makes me feel great, because I'm receiving Reiki as I give you Reiki. And that's really what it is; it's just a name for quantum healing. Every single indigenous culture in the history of humanity has had some sort of hands-on quantum healing practice. Unfortunately, due to colonization, most of the names of those practices have been lost. So, we're very fortunate that Reiki has survived in the ways that it has survived in order for us to be able to have access to at least one type of healing in that way. Passionistas: What was the incident that happened that helped you realize as an adult that you had this skill, power, what's the right word to use Maria: What happened was, I was meditating with Ben, with my meditation instructor, and I started to feel this tingling in my palms. And I had just maybe a couple weeks prior been in a car accident. So I thought, “Oh, maybe there's nerve damage or something happening here.” You know, again, I like science, I like the things that are quantifiably provable, right? So, I started feeling this tingling in my hands. And in fact, when I was meditating, I opened my eyes ‘cause I could feel this tingling, and I was like, “This is so weird.” I had been working with tantric energy and moving energy through the body for a while. I'd been working with meditation and breath. So, I had started feeling tingling in other places. And I had a Reiki master, and I was receiving Reiki from her frequently as well, so I understood the concept, but I also didn't think it could be happening to me. Like, I didn't think that I had the access to that. So, I was meditating, felt this tingling in my hands, opened my eyes, and my hands were, like, glowing, right? With this, like, golden light. And it was almost like an aura, you know? You see an aura, and it goes away in a second. It was like that. So, it went away. The glowing went away immediately, and I was like, “Okay, I'm not on drugs. What is happening here?” But what I figured was that it would just go away. Maybe it was nerve damage or whatever. Well, the tingling didn't stop for three months. I had such a hard time with how much energy was going through me. I couldn't sleep at night. Like, at the time, I was married to my ex-husband, and I would just roll over in bed just to put a hand on him to get rid of some of the energy. ‘Cause I was like, “What is this? Like, go away. I need to sleep,” right? And every time, like I said in my bio, every time I would put my hands on someone who was in pain, their pain went away. It was so weird. And so finally, I asked my Reiki master, and I was like, “I think maybe this is Reiki. I don't really know.” She was like, “It sounds like it to me. Maybe you should take a class.” So I went and got certified, and it turns out that I had just accidentally universally attuned myself to Reiki. Which, now I run my own Reiki certification program, and I actually will not certify my students until they have figured out how to attune themselves to the energy. Because there are a lot of Reiki courses you can take. You can take a weekend course at the Marriott today and get a Reiki certification for $99. The problem is, all you'll be learning to do is write the alphabet, right? Basically, you're learning how to write the Reiki symbols, and then hopefully the energy will come, you know? But that's what I teach. I teach you how to universally attune yourself and access that Reiki, and then I certify my students to legitimize their practices within the Western framework of needing certifications. But you can't get a certification from me until you can actually channel the energy. Passionistas: So, what are the benefits of Reiki? Maria: So many scientific benefits of Reiki. There have been tons of studies done. I definitely recommend checking out Reiki.org if you're ever interested in reading the multitude of scientific studies that are out there about it. But generally, we've got lowered cortisol levels—which is the stress hormone, lowered blood pressure, lowered heart rates, so increased circulation of oxygen and blood through the heart, which can improve cardiovascular function. We've got increased myelin development on the nerve endings on the myelin sheath of nerve endings, which can help to rewire the nervous system and remove trauma that is held in our autonomic nervous system. Not only that, but myelin sheath development also coats our brain and our neural pathways, which means that developing that myelin sheath lining in the brain also can help with neuroplasticity, which is basically brain youth. It's how we learn and how we retain information. So, there's a lot of benefit to Reiki just scientifically, but people who've received Reiki also report sleeping better, losing weight or gaining weight if that's what they're looking for, improved metabolism. I've seen Reiki cure cancer, for crying out loud. Like, there are lots of things that it can do. I had a friend with hemorrhoids last week. I went and gave her Reiki, and her hemorrhoids are gone. Like it's just, she was gonna have to have surgery. You know, it's kind of amazing how it works, but scientifically proven, we've got a lot of different real scientific things that it does, which is great. Passionistas: How often do people come to you for services? Is it like a monthly thing? Maria: You know, it depends. I like to tell my clients that if a Reiki practitioner says to you, “Okay, you need to see me every week for the health and balance of your system,” they're probably just trying to get your weekly money. I believe strongly that your spirit, your heart, your soul, your body knows what you need to heal. And if you need Reiki, there'll be a random thought that'll pop into your mind and be like, “Man, I could use some Reiki.” And that's when you call me. But I do have programs, both my Reiki master certification program and my trauma healing program, The Phoenix Rising—both of those programs, I require people to get weekly Reiki, and the reason why is very specific. For my trauma healing program, weekly Reiki helps to literally rewire your autonomic nervous system so you can release trauma that's held in the body. But if we aren't doing that, it takes a lot longer. You can rewire your nervous system on your own. You don't need the help of Reiki. It just, it's kind of like training a cat. It takes a lot of patience, and it takes a lot of time, but it is possible, right? That's why most people think that you can't heal or cure trauma. Like, you can never get rid of it; you just get better at coping with it over time. That's not true. Trauma is held in two places in our bodies: one—our brain, and two—our autonomic nervous system. Your brain can process through trauma in 38 seconds. It's incredible how fast our brain can actually process trauma, but our body holds onto it forever until we figure out how to reprogram and rewire the autonomic nervous system. And there's a very important reason why it does that, right? Its whole job is to make sure we survive. It's an evolutionarily created construct. So, we are literally trying to hack our evolution to release trauma from the body. Reiki helps to speed up that process, but only if you're doing it regularly. And then with my Ascension 101 program, with my Reiki certification program, the reason why I have weekly Reiki for that is because we're opening up your channels to become attuned right to the universe. And the more Reiki you receive, the more quickly you become attuned to that Reiki. That's all. Passionistas: So, for someone who's never had Reiki, what do you experience during a Reiki session? Maria: Well, it differs. It differs based off of the person who's receiving it. I've had clients report that they feel tingling all over their body. They feel heat and warmth. They see flashes of light or colors behind their eyes. I've had clients who have visitations from their ancestors, from, like, their, you know, grandmother who passed away or their father who just passed away, or things like that. It really depends on the person. But one thing that I have noticed happens a lot during Reiki sessions is people fall asleep. A lot of people get so relaxed entering into that data state that they do just fall right asleep. Passionistas: What have you learned most about yourself from this practice? Maria: That is such a great question. What haven't I learned about myself from practicing Reiki? You know, becoming a Reiki master and really beginning to offer healing to others really required me to make sure that I was a pure channel, and to make sure that I am energetically, we call it—my mentor and I—we call it “squeaky clean energetic.” Right? So, we like to be the kind of people where, if I'm gonna be messing around in your energy, I can't be bringing my own crap into that, because it's disturbing to the energetic field, right? So, that's been, I think, one of the biggest things that's changed about me, is I've had to really heal a lot of my own crap in order to be able to help others heal. Not because I needed to know what it was like in order to lead them—because we're all just walking each other home. Right? That's what Ramdas said: “We're all just walking each other home.” But because I couldn't energetically and ethically stand for being anything less than energetically squeaky clean. When I started helping others heal, I was struggling with an eating disorder, for example. Here I am guiding women to love themselves unconditionally, to open their heart chakras in a way that allows them to see that they are worthy of love and acceptance and a beautiful, joyous life simply because they exist; not because of how they look, not because of what they achieve, not because of what they do. And yet here I was eating one meal a day for the last 10 years, right? So I finally had to face myself and go, “What are you doing? Like, you can't continue to preach this and then practice something totally different. It's going to make sure that, it's going to completely guarantee that the people you are trying to guide won't heal themselves. Because you lead by example now.” And I think that was the biggest thing, really, that's changed about me, is understanding and really stepping into leadership, which was hard for me. I did not wanna do it. I was like, “I just wanna give people Reiki and let them do their thing. Like, I don't wanna have to do any of this.” And a lot of Reiki healers, they'll place their hands on someone, and they won't say a damn word. Which is fine, but I couldn't stop myself. My body became a mirror for my clients. I could feel pains in their body, and I just started channeling things that they needed to hear, and I just became a leader. And I didn't want to, and I had to anyway. I fought against that “life coach” term for forever. I did not wanna do it, because who wants to listen to someone who's so fucked up? Nobody should be listening to me, right? You can bleep that if you need to. Sorry. But you know, nobody's gonna listen to a leader who who hasn't got her shit together. And that's at least what I thought. What I realized is, a leader is someone who's relatable, who's vulnerable, who can walk with someone and say, “Oh yeah, I've been here before. Here's why I realized this was not gonna work for me, and here's why I can tell you honestly that it's not gonna work for you. But also, do I understand your struggle? Hell yes.” Passionistas: So, how can people work with you? Maria: I have several ways you can do one-on-one Reiki sessions with me. I sell them in single sessions or sessions of 5 or 10 packs. You can do spiritual mentoring with me, which is basically like therapy, but with more empathy and connection and fewer boundaries of, like, laws and, you know, HIPAA regulations. But everything is confidential, and that's in single sessions as well. 5 packs or 10 packs. I've got “The Phoenix Rising,” which is my one-on-one, three month long trauma healing program designed specifically to help you achieve post-traumatic growth and heal your trauma once and for all. And then I've got a wait list started for working with me to become a Reiki certified Reiki master in my year long certified, uh, excuse me, my year long Reiki master certification program, “Ascension 101.” And then finally, the last way to work with me is, if you are in a couple dynamic, whether that's two sisters or a mother-father, or, you know, father-child, parent-child relationship or romantic relationship. I have sessions called the “We Method.” They are two hour long spiritual mentoring sessions for couples, people who want to improve their bond and their love, whatever that is, whether it's romantic, platonic, or familial. And that is all the ways you can work with me. Passionistas: We would be remiss if we did not ask you about your past as an opera singer and possibly your present as an opera singer. So tell us about that. Maria: Yeah, so, I have a bachelor's and master's degree in opera performance from Northern Arizona University, and I studied privately with a teacher from Boston Conservatory Music after that for a couple of years. So I've been singing opera professionally now since 2010. And I have had the great blessing of singing all over the world, of singing with incredible musicians. I made my Kennedy Center debut right before the pandemic hit. I also was blessed to be able to sing in Disney's “Coco.” So, I've had this, like, really, really amazing experience recently of really developing this musical career. And then the pandemic hit. And when the pandemic hit, of course, singers being super spreaders, we were shut down. Everything was shut down. And it was so interesting just to watch, like, every company claim Force Majeure. No singer got paid even for contracts that were already signed. And I kind of was left adrift, you know? And it was funny because the timing of the universe is so amazing that I had already been, I'd already received my Reiki one certification right before the pandemic hit. And I was weighing the options. I was like, “I love healing. I love Reiki. I love this energy. I'm like really passionate about this, but I've loved music for so long. Like, maybe, but maybe it's time to quit. Maybe I should quit and really start something with this Reiki thing. But I don't know what to do.” And I was like, “Oh, what do I do? What do I do?” And then pandemic, hit, and now no Reiki. I mean, no, no music at all, right? So I was like, “Well, I guess the universe decided for me. We're gonna create a business doing Reiki now, and we'll see where it goes.” And now, the interesting thing is, is that, the music industry is hard. You know, it's really hard. It's very toxic, especially the opera industry is very toxic. It's very racist, it's very misogynistic, it's very fatphobic. And these are things that we are working, as younger singers, that we're working on trying to fix about our industry even now as we speak. And hopefully we can do that before the entire industry, you know, implodes on itself because no one wants to work for it anymore. We'll see. But I realized that I had been so burned out on singing because of the minutiae that came with it, and because of, honestly, I was full-time singing when the Pandemic hit. I was one of those people very blessed to support myself entirely on my singing, which is crazy. That doesn't happen. And I was taking every project I could, saying “yes” to everything. Whether or not I wanted to make that art, did not matter. Were they paying me? Great. I was gonna do it. And now that I'm able to not only dive deeply into this thing that I'm so passionate about in healing people and support myself in that way, now I get to turn to music in this way that really allows me to celebrate the art. I get to only take projects I wanna take, whether they're paying me or not. Or I get to only take projects that pay me really well, if that's what I want. But I have the choice now. And because I received that choice back, it was amazing, but my perfectionism died immediately. Almost immediately. I was so scared. You know, in the classical music industry, especially in singing opera, it's all about mimicry. You wanna sound exactly like performance practice has been since 1600 when they wrote that opera. You know, we don't put in our own artistry, we don't put in our own, you know, licks or anything like that, that makes it uniquely ours. You do it the way that the composer wrote it, and you only do it that way. And so if you're not perfect, you're not getting rehired. And that was, that made me into someone who was so tightly wound and so scared and nervous about, like, getting back into it that I would just, oh man, I just, every habit I had with regards to being in the music industry and learning music and performing music was just so devoid of life. And now I get to be here with this music, with this amazing art, and I don't care if I don't get rehired. So I get to be a little bit more artistic. I get to have adventure, and of course I still have respect for the art form and what's required, but all of the fear is gone. And that's yet another unexpected gift that becoming a Reiki practitioner gave me. Passionistas: Wow. What an amazing story of transformation. I love that. You are, by the way, our second Passionista involved with “Coco.” I know. That's so cool. We have an actress named Selene Luna, who played Tia Rosita. Maria: Oh, my gosh, wow! Passionistas: Yeah, that's funny. Maria: I only had three seconds of fame in “Coco.” Literally. I'm not exaggerating. Mine is less, but my name's still in the credits, so. Passionistas: That's excellent. So, thinking back to your younger self that laid your hands on your cousin to try to take away her pain. What advice would you give to that young girl? Maria: Believe in magic. Believe in yourself. You know? I think that is the thing that happens to our children so, so quickly when they're raised, is they, they start believing in magic. They start believing in themselves. They start believing anything is possible, and they begin with really understanding and expressing their most authentic selves. And then we let our societal ego mind get in the way of that. We teach them shame. We teach them how to be smaller to fit in. We teach them how to homogenize themselves, their dreams, their educations, their art, their magic. We teach them how to strip themselves of everything that makes them unique in order to fit in. And that is, it has devastating consequences. And if I had had a parent that was able to tell me that as a young child, I think perhaps I would've found Reiki a lot sooner. And I think also, I would've definitely experienced far less trauma than I did throughout my life. Passionistas: Is there a particular trait that you have that you think has helped you succeed in your life? Maria: Resilience, I think, you know? Post-traumatic growth is definitely something that has been my constant companion in this life. And just to—for our listeners who don't know what post-traumatic growth is—post-traumatic growth is a psychological term that was first coined by scientists in the mid 90s, early to mid 90s. But it's actually a psychological phenomenon that has existed since the beginning of humanity. And every sacred text talks about it. The Bible talks about it, the Quran, you know, Buddhism has talks about this. And this is the idea that suffering births transformation. Post-traumatic growth specifically is identified as a psychological phenomenon whereby we are better, happier, more well adjusted, more authentically ourselves, more joyous because of our trauma, not in spite of it. That our trauma makes us better. And there are only about 10% of people who suffer from trauma that ever actually get to achieve post-traumatic growth. All the studies that they've done on it have shown three main indicating markers of what will help you to develop post-traumatic growth: number one is a community of support, number two is resilience, and number three is a spiritual or faith practice. The numbers are exceedingly high for people who have those three pillars in place to achieve post-traumatic growth. I did not grow up with a spiritual or faith practice. My parents raised me to be agnostic, bordering on atheistic, but they did raise me to believe that if you're a good person, no matter what you believe, if you treat other people with love and humanity and brotherhood, then you're gonna be fine at the end of this life, no matter what happens to you. And I think the biggest thing, though, that my parents taught me that I had growing up, that has allowed me to achieve post-traumatic growth, was resilience. Resilience is this idea that we can bounce back. It's the idea that allows us to accept that failure is positive, not negative. Which, you would think that for a perfectionist like me, wouldn't be the case. And that perfectionism was definitely developed in college as I became a classical musician, but I wasn't always that way. And I think, truly, truly, I believe that resilience was what made me more capable of being successful and more capable of being the healer that I am today. Have you heard of that marshmallow spaghetti experiment? Passioniastas: No. Tell us more. Maria: I cannot remember the name of the sociologist who created this experiment. But it's been going on now for about 30 years, I think. And basically what they do, and they've gone all over the world and they've done this for groups of people. They go to boardrooms, they go to classrooms, they go to colleges, all sorts of places. It's considered a team building exercise. And what they do is they break people out into small groups of like five or six, and they give them: a very large marshmallow, like one of the extra jumbo sized ones, like, I don't know, 15 pieces or something of raw spaghetti, and then, like, three feet of clear tape. Everybody gets the same thing and then they say, “Okay, you have 20 minutes to build the tallest, freestanding structure that you can. But the only caveat is the marshmallow must be at the very top. Ready, set, go.” Guess who are the group of people who, time and time again, have been proven to be the worst at this? MBAs. Yep. People with Masters of Business Administration. The people who are the best at it? Kindergartners. Kid you not, kindergartners. They've, like, by far and away have made so much higher free-standing structures. And the reason why is because adults, especially those of us who've been taught there's a specific way to do things, right? Like an MBA. This is how you build a business. Step one, step two, step three, right? That what we'll do is we break into groups, and the first thing we do is, we jockey for power. Who's gonna be the leader of the group? Who's going to make the decisions of everyone's ideas? Then everyone has to take time to present their ideas to the leader of the group. And then we all discuss, like, “Okay, well, this is what might happen, and this is what might not happen. Oh, this probably won't work, and here's why.” Right? And then by the time we finally come up with an idea that might be executable, we've got three minutes left to build our structure. And of course, if it fails, we have no time to fix it. Whereas kindergartners don't understand the concept of failure equating to shame. That was something that our societal ego mind gave them later, right? So they go, “Alright, well, let's just see.” They don't pick a leader. They don't care who leads. They're just like, “Okay, well, let's try this.” And then they put it together, and they go, “Okay, well that didn't work. Alright. Try this now. Okay. Ooh, what if we do this? Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah.” And then finally, by the end, they had this enormous freestanding structure, and they did it in five minutes. Right? So, this teaches us that failure is the way to succeed. If we are willing to be brave enough to fail, we will eventually get to success. That is what resilience teaches us, and that's why I think I've been able to get where I am. Passionistas: What's been your biggest professional challenge and how did you overcome it? Maria: I think my biggest professional challenge has been that I don't know the first thing about owning a business. I was a music major. And you would think that because performance musicians, like, people with performance degrees become their own businesses, they become individual entities, right? You would think that they would've taught us something in college about business, but they taught us nothing. Not one thing about running our own businesses, not tax, literally nothing. So, that's been my biggest challenge in becoming a business owner, was learning how to actually business. I'm very, very blessed that I found a business coach early on who is amazing, who knows just how to speak to me. She's become a mentee of mine as well. And so, we've had this really beautiful symbiotic relationship, and she's really helped me build my business from the ground up. But that was my biggest challenge by far. Passionistas: Yeah. That's, I think, a common thing for most people who all of a sudden become entrepreneurs. What's been the most rewarding part of becoming a Reiki master? Maria: Definitely the ripple effect. That, and the ripple effect is also my, it's my business mission. You know, it's the whole part of my—I call it my life practice, is what I call my business, ‘cause it's so much more than that. And everything in my life has been leading up to this, you know. But I think it's the ripple effect. I've watched the people that I work with heal themselves. And then I watch them heal their families. I watch them heal their relationship with their children. I watch them lead by example to their friends and family, and that to me is…ugh, I get teary just thinking about it, because it's so exciting to me. My whole goal in life is to heal as many people as humanly possible before breath leaves my lungs. And in watching people execute that ripple effect of healing in their own lives and in their own families, it's working. It's really working. Passionistas: What's your dream for women? Maria: My dream for women? Oh, I have so many. My dream for women is that we be able to really, consciously, compassionately, and lovingly see our way through and past and away from the patriarchy. Away from our dominator colonizing culture. And that is going to require us to teach—as mothers and sisters and lovers and friends—to teach every man in our lives to do the same. That is, that is my deep dream for women and for all humanity, is an end to the patriarchy. Passionistas: Do you have a mantra that you live by? Maria: The heart cannot be broken. Only the walls that I have built around my heart can be broken. Passionistas: What's your definition of success? Maria: It's changed a lot over the years, you know? I think colonization taught me one way of viewing success, and decolonizing my mind has taught me quite another. And I think, honestly, to me, success is what we talked about earlier, and that squeaky clean energetics. If I can look in the mirror at the end of every day and be really satisfied with who I'm looking at, that's success. Passionistas: What advice would you give to a young woman that wants to follow her passions? Maria: I would tell her that the most important key to following her passions is believing that she's worthy of following them, believing that she's worthy of achieving them. That's what I would tell her. It's not even about just go and do it, because you can go and try and dive into the deep end, but if there's something inside of you that believes that you're not capable or worthy of achieving it, you never will. Because you will hold yourself back. We do it all the time, subconsciously—unintentionally—but subconsciously, we self-sabotage all the time from success because we don't believe we're worthy of it. So, that's what I would tell her. I would say believe. Believe in yourself. Passionistas: Thanks for listening to our interview with Maria Dominique Lopez. We wanted to give you a special treat this week. Each year we host the power of Passionistas Women's Equality Summit, and we ask women, many of them from marginalized communities to share stories on topics that are most important to them. One of our speakers was Elena Christopoulos, the founder of a sustainability management consulting firm. Elena's contributions have helped create over 500,000 green jobs worldwide with 60% of the positions going to women and people from the BIPOC community. As a climate scientist and political advisor, Elena has actively worked throughout her career to bring women and BIPOC people to the table in both fields, and has successfully managed over 40 political and environmental campaigns worldwide. Here's Elena's story on the power of resilience. Elena: Hi, my name is Elena Christopoulos. I'm a climate scientist, political consultant based in Santa Monica, California and Toronto, Ontario, Canada. And this is my story of equality. How one wind turbine created 500,000 green jobs worldwide with 60% going to women and BIPOC. I grew up in Europe and traveled quite a bit when I was young. It really allowed me to think outside the box. As a child, I had a huge appreciation for the food we ate, the water we drank, the air we breathed. I knew where everything came from. It was just the way I grew up. And it caused me to have a huge passion for Mother Nature, for all its glory, and I had that early on in life. Fast forward to starting university. I went to Queens University in Canada and, using other influences in my life, plus my upbringing, I had this vision to implement a wind turbine in downtown Toronto. Now, many people thought my vision was unusual, shall we say. I didn't have a track record of this. It was an idea. Nonetheless, I went to try to recruit folks who thought this idea and helped me with this. Interesting enough, men stepped up and women did not. I really had to recruit the women and I would get, the usual response would be, “Elena, I'm not qualified enough. Elena, I don't have the confidence, Elena, I don't think I can do it.” And I didn't hear that response from one man. I didn't hear it at all from one man. And this is an undergrad in university. So I took pause. And none of the men told me that they felt unqualified for the job, not one. So, you know, I started to think, “Where are the women in STEM?” I mean, I got into science because I didn't see any women in my classrooms. I didn't see any women in public school in elementary school. So, where are the women in STEM? And here I am implementing an idea, and again, where are the women? So the job got completed. I recruited enough women, and happy to say that it was 60% women and BIPOC and LGBTQIA+, and that was no easy feat. I really had to recruit women. And because of that I got a beautiful project. We worked wonderfully together, and it was the beginning of my career, which I didn't know. The turbine took 256 homes off the grid, and it's really because of the women, I have to say. So the project finished, it wrapped, and I was approached by a person running for mayor of a very large city, and the mayor said to me, you know, “Are you interested in running my campaign?” Now, my first response was, “I don't have a political science degree. I've never worked in politics.” And he stopped me cold my tracks and said, “Elena, are you trying to tell me you're not qualified enough? ‘Cause I'm actually coming to you for the request.” So, it looked like the same exact thing that happened when I was trying to recruit women in STEM for a wind turbine project now was at my door. So I took this opportunity to my three mentors who I've had early, quite early on in my life. And they said to me, “So, Elena, what do you think? Do you actually like the platform? Do you agree with what's going on?” And I just, before I started to say the, “I don't think I can do this, I don't think, I'm not qualified,” my mentor stopped me cold in my tracks again and said, “Elena, he's chosen you. It's really up to you if you wanna go forward in this. He already thinks you're qualified.” and you know, most women feel that they have to be, have 100% of the qualifications for any job they go after. Where men, it's about 60%. And that's still true today, actually. So, what happened? I realized, looking around, where are the women in science? Where are the women in politics? I created my own consulting firm. And I also, hearing that response to me, hearing doubt to my younger self—well, I'm gonna be kind to myself, but it's difficult to hear me say those things. So, I created a consulting firm because of the STEM gender gap. You know, as a climate scientist and political consultant, I realized early on that there was this gender gap, and I wanted to do something concrete. I wanted to create a pathway for women into science and politics, if they chose it. So to date, that one wind turbine in downtown Toronto, which took 256 homes off the grid, was the first urban sighted wind turbine, the first micro feed-in-tariff program. It's created 500,000 jobs. And we are just getting started, I'm really happy to say. It's my lifetime goal to increase the percentage of environmental scientists from 28% to 50%. I'm getting closer with my consulting firm and with mentoring women. So, was creating a firm daunting? Of course it was, but I wouldn't change a thing. It's important to use your voice, and I decided to use it by helping women, BIPOC, LGBTQIA, in representation. Representation matters. It's really important. Because it's important for younger generations to see themselves in boardrooms, in science labs, on campaigns, on the campaign trail. Mentoring is also important, and I highly recommend that you find a mentor as soon as you can. I don't care if you're just beginning your career or at sunset of your career. Mentors give you perspective that you can't otherwise find other, in any other way. Now, I urge you all to do something and try something out of your comfort zone, taking risk, because you know what? The rewards are so wonderful. And of course, you're most likely to fail a few times. I did. But that's where the learning is, you see? Failing forward and moving forward, because I know you can do it. I know it won't be easy, but do believe in yourself, and hey, give it a try. I recently heard this mantra from, I will say a Peloton instructor. Her name's Christine. I am, I can, I will, I do. I am, I can, I will, I do. I am, I can, I will, I do. Powerful words, powerful mantra, and really apply to anything in your life. And, by the way, if you're ever interested in implementing a wind turbine, getting into STEM or STEAM, or entering politics, or interested in running a campaign, well, my zoom is always open to you. I'll always be cheering you on, always. And remember: I am, I can, I will, I do. Thank you. Passionistas: We wanted to share one more thing with you this week. After our interview with Maria Dominique Lopez ended, she very generously offered to record a guided meditation for all of the Passionistas in our community. What follows here is that very beautiful gift from Maria. So please, find a quiet space free from distractions. Get comfortable and let Maria help you transform your day. Maria: Welcome. Welcome to this space. Take a moment now to ground yourself and just be, with your breath. You can have your eyes open or closed. You can be sitting, standing, laying, even walking, whatever is most comfortable for you. Take a deep breath in now. Let the oxygen fill every corner of your lungs. And then slowly exhale, making sure that your exhale is longer than your inhale. Nice and slow. Good. You may find that there are some places—in your lungs, maybe a space in between one of your ribs, maybe a spot in the back of your spine—where the oxygen just simply doesn't wanna go. It's a little tense or a little tight. That's okay. This is just your beautiful body holding space for whatever worries or tension, whatever fears or heaviness is sitting with you. Your body is doing you the beautiful favor of holding that space. But that's no longer needed now. So, as you take this next deep breath in, invite whatever tension is in your body to go. Thank it for its effort and release. Good. On this next breath in, I want you to notice that instead of your lungs filling with oxygen, it actually feels like it's your heart that's expanding with every breath in. Your heart muscle gets wider and wider as you breathe in, and as you breathe out, it releases a little bit of tension. Whatever tightness is being held there. Breathing in love, expanding in that feeling. Breathing out toxicity, anxiety and fear. Good. Breathing in love, feeling that heart grow bigger and bigger. Breathing out toxicity, anxiety, and fear. So relaxing. As you continue this breathing into your heart, you're going to notice that your heart begins to feel warm, nice and warm. A spark has been lit inside your heart, and it heats you from the inside. Moving outward in radiating waves of heat that fill your entire body with every breath. The spark grows bigger into flame, the heat grows warmer, and the waves of heat radiate outward even farther than your body. Outward, further and further into the room. All of this love heating up the entire room around you. As it does, you begin to feel these amazing feelings of love, joy, ecstasy, happiness, tranquility, adventure, excitement, peace, devotion. Beautiful, expanding feelings in your heart that just build and build with every breath, the heat growing, the love growing until it feels like it's going to peak, so much so that it will just burst right out of you. With one final breath, you exhale out all of that love out into the world. Beyond the room, beyond your home, beyond your town, beyond your state, out into the entire world. Your heart beating for you, and beating for all. Doesn't that feel amazing, to love everything? Allowing yourself a gentle smile, you can welcome yourself back to the space. Passionistas: Thanks for listening to this week's installment of The Passionistas Project. To learn more about Maria Dominique Lopez's work as a Reiki master, visit AscendingArts.exchange. Follow Elena Christopoulos on Instagram @BeingElenaLA. And be sure to visit ThePassionistasProject.com to sign up for our mailing list, find all the ways you can follow us on social media, and join our worldwide community of women working together to level the playing field for us all. We'll be back next week with another Passionista who is defining success on her own terms and breaking down the barriers for herself and women everywhere. Until then, stay well and stay passionate.

Do you need a wedding officiant for your ceremony? Maria Romano asks in this edition of the True Love Knots Podcast. Maria discusses a subject that is frequently brought up by engaged couples in this episode. Standout Quotes: "You need to make sure they file the paperwork. Sometimes they forget, especially if you have a friend or a family member that is part of the celebration day." [Maria] "The officiant starts the whole trajectory for your celebration that day." [Maria] "It's important that you live up to that dream to come true the way you want, the way you envision it coming to life." [Maria] Key Takeaways: The most important step to take after officiating a wedding is to submit your marriage certificate correctly. Choose an officiant that incorporates you and your partner and makes your special loved one part of that important moment. Episode Timeline: [00:32] Introducing Maria Romano [01:18] How Did Maria Got Involve In Performing the Wedding Ceremony? [03:06] What Are To Look For In A Wedding Officiant? [07:59] What Are The Steps To Getting Married? [10:36] Where To Reach Maria Romano? Learn more about Maria Romano and the True Love Knots at: Website: https://trueloveknots.com/ Email: maria@trueloveknots.com

SUMMARY: Overcoming Health Anxiety is possible! Today, we interview Ken Goodman and his client Maria on overcoming hpyochondria using Cognitive Behavioral Therapy. In this episode of Your Anxiety Toolkit Podcast, you will learn key concepts of health anxiety and how to overcome their health anxiety. In This Episode: What it is like to have health anxiety The key concepts of treating Hypochondria Tips for managing fears of death and cancer. A step-by-step approach to overcoming health anxiety. Links To Things I Talk About: https://www.kengoodmantherapy.com/ Quiet Mind Solutions ERP School: https://www.cbtschool.com/erp-school-lp Episode Sponsor: This episode of Your Anxiety Toolkit is brought to you by CBTschool.com. CBTschool.com is a psychoeducation platform that provides courses and other online resources for people with anxiety, OCD, and Body-Focused Repetitive Behaviors. Go to cbtschool.com to learn more. Spread the love! Everyone needs tools for anxiety... If you like Your Anxiety Toolkit Podcast, visit YOUR ANXIETY TOOLKIT PODCAST to subscribe free and you'll never miss an episode. And if you really like Your Anxiety Toolkit, I'd appreciate you telling a friend (maybe even two). EPISODE TRANSCRIPTION This is Your Anxiety Toolkit - Episode 226. Welcome back, everybody. If you have health anxiety, hypochondria, health anxiety disorder, or you know of somebody who has health anxiety, you are going to love this episode. I mean, love, love, love this episode. Today, we have Ken Goodman, who's on the show. He's a clinician who's here with his patient and they're sharing a success story, a recovery story of health anxiety, and it is so good. I am so honored to have both of them on. It was so fun to actually interview other people and the way they're doing it, and look at the steps that were taken in order to overcome health anxiety. And this is the overcoming health anxiety story of all stories. It is so, so good. I'm not going to waste your time going and telling you how good it is. I'm just going to let you listen to it because I know you're here to get the good stuff. Before we do that, I wanted to do the “I did a hard thing” and this one is from Dave. It says: “I've been trying to get back into meditating regularly. I was sitting at a desk this morning, reviewing my work emails. And I told myself, before I get even further in my day, I need to meditate. I did a guided meditation, even though I felt a strong pull inside to go back to work. I kept getting caught up in my thoughts, but I just kept telling myself it doesn't need to be a perfect meditation. I said the goal today is just to be able to sit without being busy for three minutes. Nothing more. It was hard, but I did it.” Dave, thank you so much for the submission of the “I did a hard thing” segment, because I think that meditation is so important. In fact, I keep promising myself I'm going to implement it more into this podcast. And Dave has really looked at some of the struggles people have with meditation. And look at him, go, it's so amazing. Totally did it. So amazing. Dave, thank you so, so, so much. I love it. If you want to submit, you may submit your “I did a hard thing” by going to KimberleyQuinlan-lmft.com. If you go to the podcast page, there is a submission page right on the website. And from there, let's just go straight to the show. I hope you enjoy it. Kimberley: Welcome. I am so excited for this episode. Welcome, Ken and welcome, Maria. Ken: Thank you for having me. Maria: Hi, Kimberley. Kimberley: So, as you guys, we've already chatted, but I really want to hear. This is really quite unique and we get to see the perspective of a client and the therapist. If I could do one of these every single week, I would. I think it's so cool. So, thank you so much for coming on and sharing. We're going to talk about health anxiety. And so, Maria, we're going to go back and forth here, but do you want to share a little bit about your experience with health anxiety? Maria: Yes. I think I've had health anxiety probably for like 15, 20 years and not known about it. Looking back now, everything comes clear when you see the multiple pictures that you've taken of certain lumps and whatever five years ago. I'm like, “Oh my gosh, I have so many pictures that I've taken and so many different things.” But yeah, I've been struggling for a while I think, and had multiple doctor's appointments. Until I realized that I had health anxiety, it was an everyday struggle, I think. Ken: Well, you came to me and you were mostly worried at the time about ticks and Lyme disease and skin cancer, but you told me that for the previous 15 years or so, you were worried about other things. What are those things? Maria: Well, I was mostly completely obsessed with moles on my skin and them being cancerous. And I was scared of ticks. I would not be able to walk through any grass or go hiking. I was scared that I would have to check my whole body to make sure that there were no ticks on me. I was completely scared of Lyme disease, and it just completely consumed my life really. And they were the main things. But looking back before that, I think that I always had a doctor's appointment on the go. I would book one, and as soon as they said, “You can book online,” That was it for me. I would have one booked, and then I'd go, “Oh, what if there's something else next week? You know what, I'm just going to book one for next week, just in case something comes up.” I am a terrible person when it comes to that because I'm taking up multiple doctor's appointments. And I knew that. But it was trying to reassure myself, trying to control the situation, trying to control next week already before it even happened. So, yeah. MARIA'S SYMPTOMS OF HEALTH ANXIETY Kimberley: Right. What did it look like for you? What did a day look like for you pre-treatment and pre-recovery? Maria: Some days it could be fine. I remember days where nothing was bothering me. It was such a nice feeling. And then I was scared because I never knew what was going to trigger me and it could be anything at any time. And I think that was the not knowing. And then as soon as I would latch onto something, I would come to the phone, I'd start Googling over and over again, hours of Googling and then checking. And then it was just ongoing. And then my whole day, I was in my head my whole day, just what if, what if, asking questions, going back to Google, trying to find that reassurance that of course never happened. Ken: Yeah. You tell me that you would take pictures of your moles and then compare them with the cancerous moles online and do those things. Maria: Yeah. And I would book-- and interestingly enough, looking back now, I went through a phase of always having a doctor's appointment. And then I also went through a phase of completely avoiding the doctor as well, not wanting to go because I didn't want them to say something that I knew was going to trigger a whole host of anxiety. So, I've gone through multiple doctors. And then once you start the doctor's appointments, then you're on a roller coaster. Because you walk away from that appointment, never feeling, or for me, never feeling reassured. Or feeling reassured for maybe a few minutes, and then you leave, and then the anxiety kicks in. “Oh, I never asked them this,” or “Oh my gosh, well, what did that mean?” And then the what-ifs start again and you're back to square one. So then, you go, “Oh, no, I didn't try just what they said. I'm going to book another appointment and this doctor is going to be the doctor that reassures me.” MANAGING DOCTOR VISITS WITH HYPOCHONDRIA Kimberley: Right. Or sometimes a lot of clients will say to me like, “The doctor made a face. What did that face mean? They made a look and it was just for a second, but were they questioning their own diagnosis and so forth?” And I think that is really common as well. Ken: Well, the doctor will say anything and it could be something very simple like, “Okay, you're all good. I'll see you in six months.” And the person will leave thinking, “Why would he want me to come back in six months if nothing was wrong?” Maria: Well, that's interesting that you would say that because I think probably at my lowest point, I was keeping notes about my thought process and what I was feeling when I was actually going to the doctors or waiting for the results. And actually, I thought it might-- if I have a few minutes to read what I actually was going through in real-time, I know it's probably very relatable. Kimberley: I would love that. Maria: I had gone to basically a doctor's appointment, an annual one where I knew I was going to have to have blood tests. And they're the worst for me because the anticipation of getting the results is just almost worse than getting the results, even though-- Ken: Did you write this before we met? Maria: No. While I was seeing you, Ken. Ken: In the beginning? Maria: Yeah. When you'd asked me to write down everything and write down what I was feeling, what I was thinking, and then read it back to myself. And this is what I had written down, actually, when I was going through the doctor's appointment and waiting or had just gotten the results. Kimberley: If you would share, that'd be so grateful. Maria: So, my blood results came back today. I felt very nervous about opening them. The doctor wrote a note at the top. “Your blood results are mostly normal. Your cholesterol is slightly high, but no need for medication. Carry on with exercise and healthy eating.” “Mostly,” what does that mean? “Mostly”? I need to look at all the numbers and make sure that everything is in the normal range. “Okay, they're all in the normal range except for my cholesterol. But why does she write mostly? Is there something else that she's not telling me? I need reassurance. I'm driving down to the doctor's right now. I can't wait the whole weekend.” I go into the doctor's office and ask them, “Is there a doctor who's able to explain to me my results?” The receptionist said, “No, you have to make another appointment.” I explained to her, “You don't understand. I just need somebody to tell me that everything is normal.” Finally, this nice lady saw the anxiety on my face. She calls the doctor over to look at the labs. The receptionist shows the doctor the one lab panel, and he says, “Everything is completely normal. Nothing was flagged. Everything is completely fine.” I thank him so much for looking and walk away. As soon as I get outside, I realize I didn't ask him to look at all the lab panels. What if she meant mostly normal on the other lab panels that I didn't show him? When I get home, I look over each one multiple times and make sure that each one is in the exact number range. After looking over them four or five times and seeing that each one is in the number range except for my cholesterol, I still feel like I need to have her explain to me why she wrote the word “mostly.” The crazy thing is I'm not concerned about the high cholesterol. I can control that. I don't know what she meant by the word “mostly.” I'm going to send her a message. And I'm going to ask her to clarify. I have to believe that she would tell me if something was wrong. I wish there was an off button in my head to stop me worrying about this. Ken: I remember this now. I remember. And this was in the middle. Maria was really avoiding going to the doctor and she had overdue with some physical exams. And so, we really worked hard for her to stop avoiding that. She got to the point where she felt good enough about going to the doctor. And she really, I think I remember her not having any anticipatory anxiety, handling the doctor very well, host the doctor very well, until she got the email and focused on the word “mostly.” And that sent her spiraling out of control. But the interesting thing about that whole experience was that we processed it afterwards, and that whole experience motivated her to try even harder. And then she took even bigger strides forward. And within a couple of months, she was really doing so much better. And I think it's been over a year now since that and continues to do really well. Kimberley: Yeah. Thank you so much for sharing that. I actually was tearing up. Tears were starting to come because I was thinking, I totally get that experience. I'm so grateful you shared it because I think so many people do, right? Maria: Yeah. And there's always and/or. You go into the doctor's appointment, they tell you everything. And because your adrenaline is absolutely pumping, you forget everything. And then you come out and you go, “Oh my gosh, I can't remember anything.” Then the anxiety kicks in and tells you what the anxiety is like, “Oh no, that must have been bad. That must have been--” yeah. Ken: And that boost in adrenaline that just takes over is so powerful. You can forget any common sense or any therapeutic strategies or tools that you might have learned because now you just get preoccupied with one word, the uncertainty of that word. Maria: Yeah. I would have to have a family member come in, my husband to come in and sit in the-- it got to that point where he would have to come in and sit in the appointment, so then after the appointment, I could have him retell me what was said, because I knew as soon as the adrenaline kicked in, I would not be able to remember anything. ROADBLOCKS TO HEALTH ANXIETY TREATMENT Kimberley: Right. Ken, this brings me straight to the next question, which would be like, what roadblocks do you commonly see patients hit specifically if they have health anxiety during recovery or treatment? Ken: Well, unlike other fears and phobias, the triggers for health anxiety are very unpredictable. So, if you have a fear of elevators, flying or public speaking, you know when your flight is going to be, you know when you have to speak or you know when you have to drive if you have a fear of driving. For health anxiety, you never know when you're going to be triggered. And those triggers can be internal, like a physical sensation, because the body is very noisy. And everyone experiences physical sensations periodically and you never know when that's going to happen. And then you never know external triggers. You never know when the doctor is going to say something that might trigger you, or you see a social media post about a GoFundMe account about someone that you know who knows someone who's been diagnosed with ALS. So, you never know when these things are going to happen. And so, you might be doing well for a couple of weeks or even a month, and suddenly there's a trigger and you're right back to where you started from. And so, in that way, it feels very frustrating because you can do well and then you can start becoming extremely anxious again. Another roadblock I think might be if you need medicine, there's a fear of trying medicine because of potential for side effects and becomes overblown and what are the long-term side effects, and even if I take it, I'm going to become very anxious. And so, people then are not taking the very thing, the medicine that could actually help them reduce their anxiety. So, that's another roadblock. Kimberley: Yeah. I love those. And I think that they're by far the most hurdles. And Maria, you could maybe even chime in, what did you feel your biggest roadblock to recovery was? Maria: Being okay with the unknown. Trying to be in control all the time is exhausting and trying to constantly have that reassurance and coming to terms with, “It's okay if I can't control everything. It's okay if I don't get the 100% reassurance that I need. It's good enough,” that was hard for me. And also, not picking up the phone and Googling was the biggest. I think once I stopped that and I was okay with not looking constantly, that was a huge step forward. Ken: You really learn to live with uncertainty. And I think you start to understand that if you had to demand 100% certainty, you had to keep your anxiety disorder. In order to be 100% certain, that meant keep staying anxious. Kimberley: Yeah. Being stuck in that cycle forever. Ken: You didn't want that anymore. You wanted to focus on living your life rather than being preoccupied with preventing death. SKILLS AND TOOLS TO OVERCOME HEALTH ANXIETY Kimberley: Right. So, Maria, I mean, that's probably, from my experience as a clinician, one of the most important skills, the ability to tolerate and be uncertain. Were there other specific tools that you felt were really important for your recovery at the beginning and middle and end, and as you continue to live your life? Maria: Yes. I think the biggest one was me separating my anxiety from myself, if that makes sense. Seeing it as a separate-- I don't even know, like a separate entity, not feeling like it was me. I had to look at it as something that was trying to control me, but I was fine. I needed to fight the anxiety. And separating it was hard in the beginning. But then I think once I really can help me to understand how to do that, at that point, I think I started to move forward a bit more. Kimberley: So, you externalized it. For me, I give it a name like Linda. “Hi, Linda,” or whatever name you want to give your anxiety. A lot of kids do that as well like Mr. Candyman or whatever. Maria: Yeah. It sat on my shoulder and try to get in my head. In the beginning, I would be brushing off my shoulder constantly. Literally, I must have looked crazy because I was brushing this anxiety off my shoulder every 10 minutes with another what-if. What if this? What if that? And I think I had to retrain my brain. I had to just start not believing and being distracted constantly by the “What if you do this” or “What if that?” and I'd say, “No, no.” Ken: Yeah. I'd treat a lot of health anxiety. I have a lot of health anxiety groups. And I do notice that the patients that can externalize their anxiety and personify it do way better than the people who have trouble with it. And so, whether it's a child or a teenager or an adult, I am having them externalize their anxiety. And I go into that, not only in my groups, but in the audio program I created called the Anxiety Solution Series. It is all about how to do that. And it makes things so much easier. If now you're not fighting with yourself, there's no internal struggle anymore because now you're just competing against an opponent who's outside of you. It makes things easier. Kimberley: Right. Yeah. And sometimes when that voice is there and you believe it to be you, it can make you feel a little crazy. But when you can externalize it, it separates you from that feeling of going crazy as well. Maria: I felt so much better as soon as I did that because I felt, “Okay, I think I can fight this. This isn't me. I'm not going crazy. This is something that I--” and I started to not believe. And it was long, but it was retraining my brain. And I would question the what-ifs and it didn't make sense to me anymore. Or I would write it down and then I would read it back to me, myself, and I'd be like, “That's ridiculous, what I just thought.” And the other tool which was hugely helpful was breathing, learning how to breathe properly and calm myself down. I mean-- Ken: Yeah. There's lots of different types of breathing out there. And so, I teach a specific type of breathing, which is, I call it Three by Three Relaxation Breathing, which is also in the Anxiety Solution Series. And it really goes over into detail, a very simple way to breathe that you can do it anywhere. You can do it in a waiting room full of people, because it's very subtle. It's not something where you're taking a big breath and people are looking at you. It's very, very subtle. You can do it anywhere. MEDITATION FOR HEALTH ANXIETY Kimberley: Ken, just so that I understand, and also Maria, how does that help someone? For someone who has struggled with breathing or is afraid of meditation hor health anxiety and they've had a bad experience, how does the breathing specifically help, even, like you were saying, in a doctor's appointment office? Maria: I've done it actually in multiple doctor's appointments where I've had that feeling of, “I've got to get out of here now.” It's that feeling of, “Uh, no. Right now, I need to leave.” Before, before I started, I would leave. And now I realized, no, I'm not. I'm going to sit and I'm going to breathe. And no one notices. No one can see it. You can breathe and it really does calm me down, especially in the past, I've had panic attacks and feeling like I can't breathe myself. When you start to realized that you can control it and it does relax you, it really helps me a lot. I do it all the time. Kimberley: It's like a distress tolerance tool then, would you say? Maria: It's something that I can carry around with me all the time, because everyone needs to breathe. Kimberley: Yeah. I always say that your breath is free. It's a free tool. You could take it anywhere. It's perfect. Maria: Yeah. So, it's something that I can do for myself. I can rely on my breathing. And now knowing after Ken teaching me really how to do it properly, it's just invaluable. It really is, and empowering in a way. Now, when I feel like I can't be somewhere, and in fact just not so long ago, I was in a doctor's appointment, not for myself, but I sat there and it was really high up and there was lots of windows around. Of course, I don't like being [00:22:34 inaudible]. And I felt I have to get out. “Nope, I'm not going to do it. I'm not going to do it.” I sat there, I did my breathing. I actually put my earphones in and started listening to Ken's anxiety solutions and listened and took my mind off of it, and I was fine. I didn't leave. And actually, I walked away feeling empowered afterwards. So, it's huge. It's really helpful. Ken: Yeah. You just said a couple of very important things. You made a decision not to flee, so you decided right there, “I'm not going anywhere. So, I'm going to stay here. I'm going to tolerate that discomfort, but I'm going to focus on something else. I'm going to focus on my breathing. I'm going to listen to the Anxiety Solution Series.” And then by doing that, I'm assuming your anxiety either was contained, it stayed the same, or maybe it was reduced. Yeah? Maria: Yeah, it was reduced. It stayed the same. And then it started to reduce. And naturally, by the end, I was like, “I'm fine. Nothing is going to happen.” So, it was great. And the other-- I want to say actually one more thing that really, really helped me. And it was actually a turning point, was that I was in another appointment. The doctor came in and told me I was fine. And it was actually like an appointment where they had called me back medically. So, it was a different scenario. It wasn't me creating something in my head. But anyway, there was a lot of anticipation beforehand and he came in and he said, “You are fine. Go live your life.” And I walked away and I went home. And within maybe about 40 minutes, I said, “Maybe he was lying to me. Maybe he was just trying to make me feel good because he saw how anxious I was.” And at that point I realized, this is never going to stop, never. Unless I fight back, I will never-- I felt robbed of the relief that I should have felt. When he told me that, I wasn't getting that relief and I was never going to have that relief unless I used-- and at that point, I actually got angry. And I remember telling Ken, I was like, “I'm so angry because I felt robbed of the relief.” And at that point, I think I then kicked up my practicing of everything tenfold. And that was a turning point for me. Ken: Yeah. That anger really helped you. And anxiety is a very, very powerful emotion, but if you can access or manufacture a different emotion, a competing emotion, and anger is just one of them, you can often mitigate the anxiety. You can push through it. And for you, it was an invaluable resource, because it was natural. You actually felt angry. For other people, they have to manufacture it and get really tough with their anxiety. But for you, you at that moment naturally felt it. And you're right. You said it is never going to stop. And physical sensations, the body is noisy. People will have the rest of their life. You're going to have a noisy body. So, that will never stop. It's your reaction and your response to those physical sensations that is key. And you learn how to respond in a much more healthy way to whenever you got any sort of trigger external or internal. TREATMENT FOR HEALTH ANXIETY/HYPOCHONDRIA Kimberley: It's really accepting that you don't have control over anxiety. So, taking control where you have it, which is over your reactions. And I agree, I've had many clients who needed to hit rock bottom for a certain amount of time and see it play out and see that the compulsions didn't work to be like, “All right, I have to do something different. This is never going to end.” And I think that that insight too can be a real motivator for treatment of like, “I can't get the relief. It doesn't end up lasting and I deserve that like everybody else.” So, Ken, how do you see as a clinician the differences in recovery and treatment for different people? Do you feel like it's the same for everybody, or do you see that there are some differences depending on the person? Ken: Well, when I treat people with health anxiety, although the content of their specific fears might be different – some might worry more about their heart, some might worry more about shaking that they experience and worry about ALS – the treatment is basically the same, which is why I can treat them in classes or groups because it's basically the same. There are some variations. Some people are more worried about things, where other people feel more physical sensations. And I may have to tailor that a bit. So, some people have to-- their problems are more the physical sensations that they feel and they can't tolerate those physical sensations. And other people it's more mental. They're just constantly worried about things. But in general, they can be treated very similarly. It's learning how to tolerate both the uncertainty and the discomfort and the stress that they feel. Kimberley: Right. And I'll add, I think the only thing that I notice as a difference is some people have a lot of insight about their disorder and some don't. Some are really able to identify like, “Ah, this is totally Linda, my anxiety,” or whatever you want to name your anxiety. “This is my anxiety doing this.” Whereas some people I've experienced as a clinician, every single time it is cancer in their mind and they have a really hard time believing anything else. Like you said, they feel it to be true. Do you agree with that? Ken: Completely. Yeah. Some people will come to me and they know it's probably anxiety, but they're not sure. And some people, they are thoroughly convinced that they have that disease or that disorder. And even after months and months and months of-- and oftentimes the content changes. So, I have patients who, when I first start seeing them, they might be afraid of cancer. And then two months later, it's their heart. And then a couple of months later after that, it's something else. There's always something that can come up and they're always believing it's something medical. And of course, they go back to, “Well, what if this time it is? What if this time it is cancer?” And that's where they get caught in the trap. So, for them, it's answering that question. For Maria, it's the word “mostly” that she became fixated on to get lured in and take the bait. It's like, what happens to a fish that takes the bait? Now they're struggling. So, now once you take the bait, you're struggling. Kimberley: Right. And I would say, I mean, I'll personally explain. A lot of my listeners know this, but I'll share it with you guys. I have a lesion on the back of my brain that I know is there. And I have an MRI every six months. And I have a lot of clients who have a medical illness and they have health anxiety, and it's really managing, following the doctor's protocol, but not doing anything above and beyond that because it's so easy to be like, “Well, maybe I'll just schedule it a little earlier because it is there and I really should be keeping an eye on it.” And that has been an interesting process for me with the medical illness to tweak the treatment there as well. Ken: Yes, absolutely. I have a patient right now and she has a legitimate heart issue that is not dangerous. They've had many, many tests, but all of a sudden, her heart will just start racing really fast, just out of the blue. And it happens randomly and seems like stress exacerbates the frequency of it. But it's not just irritating for her, it was scary because every time she would experience it, she thought, “Maybe this is it. I'm having a heart attack.” But she really had to learn to tolerate that discomfort, that it was going to happen sometimes and that was okay. It happens and you just have to learn to live with it. Kimberley: Right. So, Maria, this is the question I'm most excited about asking you. Tell me now what a doctor's appointment looks like for you. Maria: It looks a lot better. You can actually pick up the phone and book an appointment now without avoiding it. I practice everything that I've learned. I'm not going to lie. The anticipation, maybe a couple of days before, is still there. However, it's really not as bad as it was before. I mean, before, I would be a complete mess before I even walked into the doctor's office. Now, I can walk in and I'm doing my breathing and I'm not asking multiple questions. I'm now okay with trusting what the doctor has to say. Whereas before, if I didn't like what he had to say or he didn't say exactly the way I wanted to hear it, I'd go to another doctor. But now, I'm okay with it. And it's still something I don't necessarily want to do. But leaps and bounds better. Leaps and bounds really. I can go in by myself, have a doctor's appointment, ask the regular questions and say, “Give me the answers,” and leave and be okay with it. GETTING TEST RESULTS WITH HEALTH ANXIETY Kimberley: How do you tolerate the times between the test and the test results? How do you work through that? Because sometimes it can take a week. You know what I mean? Sometimes it's a long time. Maria: Yeah. I mean, I haven't-- so, obviously, it's yearly. So, I'm at that point next year where I will have to go and have all my tests again and get the results and anticipate. But I think for me, the biggest thing is distraction and trying not to focus too much beforehand and staying calm and relaxed. And that's really it. I mean, there's always going to be anxiety there for me, I think, going to the doctors. It's not ever going to go away. I'm okay with that. But it's learning how to keep it at a point where I can understand what they're telling me and not make it into something completely different. Ken: I think you said the keywords – where you're putting your focus. So, before, your focus was on answering those what-if questions and the catastrophic possible results. And now I think your focus is on just living your life, just going about living your life and not worrying or thinking about what the catastrophic possibilities could be. Is that accurate? Would you say it's accurate? Maria: Yeah. Because if you start going down that road of what-if, you're already entering that zone, which it is just, you're never going to get the answer that you want. And it's hard because sometimes I would sit and say to myself, “I'm going to logically think this out.” And I would pretend. I mean, I even mentioned to Ken, “No, no, I'm logically thinking this out. This is what anyone would do. I'm sat there and I'm working out in my head.” And he said, “You've already engaged. You've already engaged with the anxiety.” “Have I?” And he said, “Yeah. By working it out in your head, you're engaging with the anxiety.” And that was a breakthrough as well because I thought to myself after, “I am.” I'm already wrapped up in my head logically thinking that I'm not engaging, but I'm completely engaging. So, that was an interesting turning point as well, I think. Kimberley: Amazing. You've come a long, long, long way. I'm so happy to hear that. Ken, before we wrap up, is there anything that you feel people need to know or some major points that you want to give or one key thing that they should know if they have health anxiety? Ken: Oh my gosh, there are so many. There is a tendency for people with all types of anxiety to really focus their attention on the catastrophic possibilities instead of the odds of those catastrophic possibilities happening. The odds are incredibly low. And so, if you're focusing on the fact that it's probably not likely that this is going to happen, then you'll probably go through your life and be okay if you can focus your attention on living your life. But if you focus on those catastrophic possibilities that are possible, they are, then you're going to go through life feeling very, very anxious. And if you focus on trying to prevent death, prevent suffering, then you're not really living your life. Kimberley: That's it right there. That's the phrase of the episode, I think, because I think that's the most important key part. I cannot thank you both enough for coming on. Ken: This is fun. This is great. Maria: It was fun. Kimberley: Maria, your story is so inspiring and you're so eloquent in how you shared it. I teared up twice during this episode just because I know that feeling and I just love that you've done that work. So, thank you so much for sharing. Ken: Yeah. She's really proof that someone who's suffered for 15, 20, some odd years with anxiety can get better. They just have to be really determined and really apply the strategies and be consistent. She did a great job. Kimberley: Yeah. Massive respect for you, Maria. Maria: Oh, thank you. Kimberley: Amazing. Ken, before we finish up, do you have any-- you want to share with us where people can hear from you or get access to your good stuff? Ken: Yeah. So, quietmindsolutions.com, I have a whole bunch of information on health anxiety. I have two webinars in health anxiety on that website, as well as other webinars in other specialties I have. Also, I have the Anxiety Solution Series, which is a 12-hour audio program, which focuses on all types of anxiety, including health anxiety, as well as others. And you can listen to a few chapters for free just to see if you would like it, if you could relate to it. And there's other programs, other articles, and videos that I produced. I have a coloring self-help book, which is basically a self-help for people with anxiety, but every chapter has a coloring illustration where you color. And the coloring illustration actually-- what's the word I'm looking for? It's basically a representation of what you learn in that chapter. It strengthens what you learn in that chapter. Kimberley: Cool. Ken: Yeah. And then a book called The Emetophobia Manual, which is a book for people who have fear of vomiting. Kimberley: Amazing. And we'll have all those links in the show notes for people as well. So, go to the show notes if you're interested in getting those links. Ken: Ken Goodman Therapy is the other website. It has similar information. Maria: I wanted to mention as well that I actually watched one of Ken's webinars quite by accident in the beginning before I realized I had health anxiety. And after watching it, I thought, “Oh my gosh, I've got that.” And so, it was hugely, hugely helpful because I think that having this for so many years and not realizing, there's a lot of people that still don't realize that they suffer from health anxiety. For me, as soon as I could label it as something, it was a relief because now I could find the tools and the help to work on it and get that relief. Kimberley: Amazing. Okay. Well, my heart is so full. Thank you both for coming on. It's really a pleasure to hear this story. So inspiring. So, thank you. Ken: Yeah. Thank you for doing this, Kimberley. Maria: Thank you. Ken: And thanks, Maria. ----- Thank you so much for listening. Before we finish up, we're going to do the review of the week. This is from kdeemo, and they said: “This podcast is a gift. I just found this podcast and I'm binging on the episodes. I learn something through each episode, and love her practical advice and tools. I feel like part of a community-what a gift!” Oh, I'm so, so grateful to have you kdeemo in our community. This is a beautiful, beautiful space. My hope is that it's different to every other podcast you listen to in that we give you a little bit of tools, a little bit of tips, but a huge degree of love and support and compassion and encouragement. So, thank you so much for your review. I love getting your reviews. It helps me to really double down in my mission here to give as many practical free tools as I can. It is true, it is a gift to be able to do that. So, if you could please leave a review, I would be so, so grateful. You can click wherever you're listening and leave a review there. Have a wonderful day.

Episode Notes [“Colombia, Mi Encanto,” from Encanto] Maria & Natalia: Hello! Welcome to Guatever. Maria: And Happy New Year. Natalia: Welcome to 2022. Maria: I'm Maria Caamaño. Natalia: And I'm Natalia Camino. Maria: And today we are talking about Disney's Encanto. Natalia: We know that we usually only talk about music. But overall, we think this movie is just really important for the Latino community. And we want to talk about it. Maria: Also, the songs are really good.  Natalia: Yes, also, the songs are really good.  Maria: So first up, let's discuss Encanto. For those of you who do not know, Encanto is a movie released by Disney. It takes place in Colombia. It's one of the – possibly the third – Latino household [movie] with Kuzco from Emperor's New Groove being the first and Coco being the second. Natalia: Yes, even though like Coco for me, obviously, it was a very important movie because it was one of the first times I could actually see my culture or my traditions represented. And like, it all felt very familiar for me. Obviously, like… Maria: That is not the complete, like…  Maria & Natalia: Latino experience.  Natalia: Yeah. And so I think it's really cool that Disney is just expanding.  Maria: It's also nice to see a movie that just represents another Latin American country, but also in a sense…  Natalia: …represents all Latinos.  Maria: Yeah, it's like a win for all Latinos, because I feel like the styles of some of the songs are representative of also different styles of music that all Latinos enjoy like Salsa… Natalia: And like Cumbia. Maria: Yeah, and like Latin rock. But yes.  Natalia: Yeah, I think also because something – we'll get more into this later – but something that Encanto does well is showcase… Maria: The immigrant experience in Latin America. Natalia: Yeah. Because there's not just immigrants coming into the US. There's also people, as Encanto showcases, that have to leave either their hometown and go into another area of that country for political reasons or any other type of reason.  Maria: Well, yeah, cause in Encanto they never really say. Yeah, we're gonna try and not spoil for anyone, also. So if you haven't seen it, do not worry. But you will understand the main idea. Natalia: But also go watch it! Maria: It's so good. It is so good. It's such a good movie. I think that everyone should watch it. Like, just because I think that it does a really good job in representing not only like the immigrant experience, but – me and Nat talked about this – so it shows a lot of the fact that in Latin America, there's not really a racial monolith.  Natalia: It's a mixture of various races. And I think this is important because there's usually just this one Latino stereotype or this one Latina stereotype. Maria: I think that it does a good job because that's the reality. There's so much racial diversity in Latin America. So it does a really good job of also showcasing that I think, which is nice to see for once.  Natalia: And I think it's important.  Maria: Yeah. Let's move on to the songs in the soundtrack. And we're gonna start with “We Don't Talk About Bruno”. [“We Don't Talk About Bruno,” from Encanto] Maria: So this is my personal favorite of the film. I think it is so fun and it finally showcases Pepa's side of the family – like Pepa and Félix's side of the family.  Natalia: Because like throughout the movie you don't really understand their dynamic.  Maria: Yeah, but also like you don't really get to see like Camilo or Dolores really until that point. Their voices are amazing. Like Dolores' part is so cool. And then Camilo's part – the raspiness of this man's voice. I would have loved to have them have their own songs because they killed it so much in this song. But this is also the song that went viral on TikTok. Like if you haven't heard of this song, honestly, don't know what to tell you.  Natalia: Go listen to it. Go listen to it.  Maria: Literally. It's like, it went number one on the charts. I think it went number one on Spotify even so, like, everyone loves the song. It's so good. I – Yeah, I'll make the generalization. Yes. People… Maria & Natalia: …love it.  Maria: But also what me and Nat find funny is that every Latino household has that like one relative… Natalia: That you don't talk about.  Maria: So it was really funny to see that kind of like… Natalia: Like, it's not really a trope, because no one talks about it. But yes. Do you have a relative you don't talk about? Maria: I think that my family doesn't have one, really. Because we talk about everyone. We'll like say everything in front of each other. So maybe that's why? If not, maybe, I don't know who it would be but… you know, maybe it's me! Natalia: What if it's you?  Natalia: But yeah. I do have one relative we don't talk about so.. And I know other people also have relatives they don't talk about. Maria: No, I definitely know people who like, they don't talk about maybe like an uncle or an aunt. Or like they get invited once in a while and it gets awkward when they're invited. Like stuff like that. Natalia: And it's like for various reasons, obviously, usually it's not because they cast… because they can like see the future. Maria: Obviously. I mean, everyone's family has their own business. Everyone has their own stuff. Yeah. So moving on to the next song. Natalia: “What Else Can I Do?” [“What Else Can I Do?,” from Encanto] Natalia: Which is a great song. Maria: It is a great song. I think – when I was watching, I got really into this movie.  Natalia: Yes. Maria: So I dove into Lin-Manuel's interviews about the songs. Natalia: Also, for context. We didn't say this earlier, but Lin-Manuel Miranda wrote…  Maria: Oh, all! Natalia: All of the songs.  Maria: He did the entire – I think he wrote all the songs.  Natalia: The majority. Yeah.  Maria: Except for maybe like… I think he didn't – obviously – compose the songs that go in the background. But, like, I think he did most of the songs that characters sing. But yeah, so I was watching Lin-Manuel's interviews, and he said that for “What Else Can I Do?” he really wanted to do a tribute to Latin rock. Like old time Latin rock from the ‘90s. And like… Natalia: I thought that was really cool. Maria: Yeah, I know. I knew you were gonna like that. Natalia: Yeah, because I think the history of Latin rock in Latin America is just really cool. There's a great documentary on Netflix that everyone should watch! Maria: Oh, my God. Natalia: But I think it's really cool that he did this because Colombia as a country played a really big role in the upbringing of Latin rock, along with various other countries such as Mexico, Argentina, and Chile. So I think it's really cool.  Maria: I also just think it's a really cool song. Like, if you listen to it, you can definitely tell that it has those influences.  Natalia: Yeah.  Maria: But it doesn't feel out of place in the film.  Natalia: Yeah. Maria: ‘Cause sometimes when you play with genres, I feel like it feels really out of place. And especially in children's movies, because you want everything to be something that can cater to children. But he did a really good job. Natalia: I think it also just juxtaposes the character very well. Maria: Oh, yeah, that's so true. So let's talk about Miss Isabela. She is supposed to be like the perfect one in the family. Or like, that's what we think when you meet her.  Natalia: We won't spoil it.  Maria: Exactly. So we'll just leave it at that. She's supposed to be very perfect. And so for them to have given her the song that's like… Natalia: Latin rock… Maria: Was very interesting. But it makes sense, also – with the storyline. Yeah, so once you like… if you haven't seen it, it will make more sense. Natalia: Everything will make more sense if you watch the movie.  Maria: Obviously. Then we're moving on to – so this song, this next song for me was hilarious, because… So storytime: when I saw this movie, I didn't see it with Natalia. I saw this movie on the plane on my way back to Evanston from home for Winter Break. And I was on the plane sobbing just watching this movie. But I remember hearing this song and I just thought “Oh, no… Natalia.” Natalia: Because then we did watch the movie together when Maria got back. When we were both back from break. Maria: And I just warned her. Natalia: And she just goes, “Natalia. Just be careful with this next song.” And I go, “What do you mean?” Maria: So we're talking about “Surface Pressure”. This song is about Luisa, who's supposed to be like the strongest – not only like physically, but I guess… Natalia: Also emotionally. Maria: Also emotionally – in the family. And she's kind of having a moment of vulnerability, telling her sister that all that pressure isn't very good for her. And it kinda showcases that classic older child… Natalia: It's like… I think something this movie does very well, and that a lot of people picked up on, is showcasing the immigrant experience. And I think like, especially this song, showcases like the oldest sibling – I guess in this case the oldest daughter. In my case, the oldest daughter. And so I think this song resonated with a lot of people. Maria: It was funny, because we were watching it in our apartment and I just looked at her.  Natalia: And I was like, “What do you mean?” And they're like, “You don't know how to relax. You don't know how to not stop working.” Maria: Which is true. If you know Natalia, you know that this is true.  Natalia: And maybe this song did speak to me. Maria: Warning, if you are an older sibling, maybe… maybe just be careful when you watch. Natalia: Don't watch it with your family. Don't watch it with your family, and you'll be fine. Maria: Oh, my God. [“Surface Pressure,” from Encanto] Natalia: Kind of also with the trauma of the immigrant experience is that idea… I think, like why there's so much pressure sometimes on like the oldest immigrant sibling is because it's the idea that usually the parents or the grandparents sacrificed a lot or had a big sacrifice in order to migrate. And so they have to make it worth it. And so I think that's like one reason why Luisa probably – or the entire family – feels so much pressure to appease Abuelita is because she's sacrificed so much that they have to make it worth it. And so then with the song “Dos Oruguitas”... Maria: So “Dos Oruguitas” is this song where it kind of like, after some stuff goes down, explains the background of Abuelita, who's the matriarch of the family. And it kind of breaks down what she went through and being forced out of her home. As we said, we're not trying to give spoilers so that's the only thing I'll say. And it kind of like taps into what Nat was saying, like the trauma of being displaced from your home and having to like, I guess, like build everything from… Natalia: …scratch.  Maria: Yeah. Natalia: Yeah. So I think like, overall the movie or – even I saw this on Tik Tok a lot – like it really spoke to a lot of immigrants and people who have gone through that immigrant experience. And like that it showcases the Latino immigrant experience in a way that like the family dynamics sometimes are not talked about because it's so – they're so accepted. Maria: I think it's just normalized. Natalia: Yes. Maria: Like the expectations for everyone in a family. But also just talking about “Dos Oruguitas” in general, this is one of the only songs other than like “Colombia, Mi Encanto” that's in Spanish. And it is… Natalia: It is a… Maria: It is… Natalia: A sentimental song. Maria: It is tragic. It is so sad. I – Natalia does not cry. And I heard her going sniffle sniffle the entirety of “Dos Oruguitas.” And then I just look at her and I just go, “Are you crying?” And she just goes, “Yes.” Natalia: Okay, I don't show emotions, but that doesn't mean I'm heartless. Maria: It's such a sad song. I feel like no one can get through that one and not cry. Natalia: For people who don't know, “Dos Oruguitas” means two caterpillars. Maria: Yeah.  Natalia: And so the song slowly transforms and at the end like it's supposed to show growth. Maria: Yeah. So like they turn into butterflies. Natalia: Yes, like a metaphor. [“Dos Oruguitas,” from Encanto] Maria: If you should take anything away from this episode, it's that you should go watch Encanto. If you haven't, it's such a good movie. Natalia: It has an amazing soundtrack. It talks about the Latino experience, it showcases Latinos in an… Maria: It has amazing actors! Natalia: Amazing actors. It showcases Latinos in a non-stereotypical way.  Maria: So true, man.  Natalia: And overall, you should just go watch it. Maria: Yes. You know what, honestly, one of the things that I just realized is that there's not any like stereotypical Latino character in this movie. Natalia: Because you think – Wait, we didn't talk about this. But, the love interest of Isabela throughout the movie is voiced by…  Maria & Natalia: Maluma.  Natalia: But Maluma does not sing. He literally has like three lines. Maria: First of all, why would they not give Maluma…? He's literally a singer. And they did not give him a singing part. But it's okay. Because it makes sense. I wouldn't want his character to sing. Natalia: Yes. Maria: He's terrible. He's like the Latino lover, I guess.  Natalia: Yeah, he's the Latino like stereotype. But then he ends up like… Maria: Not.  Natalia: And like you think that Isabela is also going to kind of feed into that stereotype. Maria: They don't embody any of those stereotypes. And like, none of the characters are what they seem. They have so much more depth to them. Natalia: Because usually with Latino characters, when they play like a supportive role, they're very flat characters whose entire personality's either 1) they're Latino, 2) they can cook or 3) they're attractive. So like for this one, there's so much like – there's so much more to them and their relationships are so much deeper.  Maria: Yeah.  Natalia: It was just very refreshing. We'll end with this.  Maria: Who's your favorite character?  Natalia: I think Bruno's the funniest and I like that. He's funny.  Maria: My favorite other than Bruno is Camilo. That moment when he's looking for Mirabel and he accidentally turns into a baby is hilarious to me. He's just funny.  Natalia: But yes, I just think the fact that he says, “Sana, sana colita de rana” is funny. It reminds me of my dad. Maria: So, thank you so much for tuning into this episode. Natalia: We know it's a little bit different from what we usually do.  Maria: But we wanted to… we wanted to come into the new year with something new! 2022! Our podcast is about to turn two years old this year, which is… Maria & Natalia: Crazy.  Maria: Um, but yes! Thank you so much for tuning in. We hope you like this episode, and we will be bringing you much more content in the year of 2022. Natalia: Please let us know your thoughts and if you have anything you'd like us to talk about. Maria: Yes, just message us. We always say this but just find us on social media. Natalia: Also because we are running out of ideas. Maria: This has been Maria Caamaño. Natalia: And Natalia Camino. Maria: For NBN Audio. [“Colombia, Mi Encanto,” from Encanto] This podcast is powered by Pinecast.

As we say our goodbyes to the previous year, we embrace the new year with open arms and the burning hope that this will be the year we have been waiting for. Maria Romano discusses why you should take advantage of the opportunities that the new year provides in our life in this episode of True Love Knots. Standout Quotes: “Your word has to be your word; it has to be valid. It has to be gospel; it has to be like the Bible.” [Maria] “Don't allow the people in your life even if they love you, they could be family. But they might tell you Well, now's not the time to branch out. Now's not the time that people are spending money.” [Maria] “Nothing is ever going to be perfect. Nothing. And if you waiting for that perfect time, you're gonna be waiting a long time my friend.” [Maria] “Don't hold yourself back, make 2022 The best year ever. Start moving forward, put down what your goals are, write them down, put them into action. Say them out loud. And when you do, and you start moving forward, you're gonna thank yourself, you're gonna reap the rewards because you don't know till you try.” [Maria] “It's important that you become the best version of you by finding your passion and purpose because the world needs more people like you.” [Maria] Key Takeaways: When you take the time to write your goals down, they become a reality. It's something that jumps out at you, and you have to speak them aloud. Additionally, these goals should be shared with others. What does that accomplish? This places you in a situation where you feel a sense of obligation to deliver. At times, we self-sabotage. And we believe I am incapable of doing so due to my ignorance. Fortunately, there are many courses and YouTube videos available to teach you how to accomplish anything. Therefore, avoid allowing self-sabotage to get in the way. More people like you, motivated by a sense of purpose and enthusiasm, are needed in the world. And by not sharing it, you're doing the world a disservice. Perhaps you have a fantastic service, something you want to create, develop, or give, but the rest of the world will be oblivious of it. Do you think there aren't any other people like me? There is only one of you in the entire universe. Episode Timeline: [00:02] Meet today's host “Maria Romano,” from True Love Knots [01:29] The Book “The Four Agreements” by Don Miguel Ruiz [02:07] The Dangers of Self Sabotage [03:57] Know your passion and purpose Learn more about Maria Romano and the True Love Knots at: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/maria-romano-tlk/ Website: https://trueloveknots.com/

Episode Notes [“MALAMENTE,” by Rosalía] Maria & Natalia: Hi!  Natalia: Welcome to “Guatever.” Maria: I'm Maria Caamaño.  Natalia: And I'm Natalia Camino. Maria: And today we are talking about something that's… Natalia: A little controversial. Maria: A little bit spicy! Natalia: But we have very strong opinions. Maria: Yes, very...I think strong is the right word. Natalia: Right? Look at me with my adjectives.  Maria: This has been kind of like...honestly, I think that it's received enough attention, but I… Natalia: It still doesn't have a lot of attention.  Maria: Yeah, exactly. So, if y'all didn't know, on September 12th of this year, the VMAs took place. And one of the categories that was in there is “Best Latin Song”. So, the nominees for this category were Shakira and the Black Eyed Peas' “Girl Like Me,” Maluma's “Hawái,” Karol G's “Bichota,” J. Balvin, Dua Lipa, Bad Bunny, and Tainy's “Un Dia,” and Bad Bunny and Jhay Cortez's “Dákiti.” And of course… Natalia and Maria: Billie Eilish and Rosalía. Maria: For, I don't even know the song.  Natalia: I don't even know the song  Maria: Literally. For “Lo Vas A Olvidar.” Natalia: And so what's interesting about this predicament in a sense is that, keep in mind this is the best Latin song... Maria: Yes.  Natalia: And one of the song nominations includes no Latin artists. Maria: Literally. So naturally, that was the song that won. Natalia: Yes. I think...So we want to dive deeper into Rosalía and kind of like what she represents within the Latin music industry of the appropriation of Latin culture by Spanish. And so I think it's gotten to the point where we mentioned Rosalía and we're...like some of our friends were confused.  Maria: No, yeah, literally. Natalia: Because they're like, “Oh, I thought she was Latina.” And we're like, “No, like, she's not.” Maria: She's really not.  Natalia: She's from Spain, which makes her Hispanic, but not Latina.  Maria: Exactly.  Natalia: But she has appropriated the culture to a certain point...  Maria: That's just unacceptable. Honestly, me and Nat have – we've tried to record this episode probably like four times.  Natalia: Yeah.  Maria: And honestly, it never sat right with us because we thought, “Oh, people are gonna think that we're trying to cancel her...that we're trying to make it like a huge thing.” It's really not. Natalia: We just want to bring awareness to this. Maria: And like, have accountability. Because honestly, like, I love her music.  Natalia: No, like “MALAMENTE” was one of my most listened to albums. If you haven't listened to it... Maria: It's beautiful.  Natalia: It's beautiful.  Maria: But enjoying an artist's music does not excuse their unacceptable behavior.  Natalia: And we felt like we could talk about this because many times like some publications or like certain people, either one, shouldn't be talking and giving their opinion about this, based on their own identity. Or two, don't understand the complexity of it fully. Maria: Exactly. So we'll break it down a little bit. As Nat said, Rosalía was born in Barcelona, which is in Spain – if you did not know. Which essentially makes her Hispanic. A lot of people don't understand the difference between Hispanic and Latinx. So Hispanic means Spanish speaking. So it essentially includes Spain and any other Spanish speaking country, even if it's not in Latin America. Natalia: And then in regards to Latinx or Latiné or Latino/Latina – that's an entire other argument and story – but that includes Latin American countries, including countries that don't speak Spanish, such as Brazil, Haiti.  Maria: Yeah.  Natalia: There are a few others. But yeah, that's the distinct difference.  Maria: Yes. And so I think that a lot of the time people have...they don't understand the difference between it and I especially think that we've been seeing that with her getting so many nominations for the Latin category.  Natalia: Yeah.  Maria: Which is also like, honestly, like me and Nat have talked about this. It's complex because they obviously can't make an entire category just for Spanish people when it comes to like, let's say this is the MTV VMA's for like the US let's say. It differs when it comes to like the Latin Grammys, but… Natalia: It's a complex issue that doesn't necessarily have a solution and one, like Rosalía does produce good music, and she deserves recognition. But just the way in which the Academy or like the music industry operates, it in a way undermines the hard work of Latinos/Latinas. And because of this, we feel like it's problematic. Maria: Yeah. So, essentially, as we've already said, Billie and Rosalía won the Best Latin award for their song “Lo Vas A Olvidar,” which first of all, none of them are Latin, so why were they nominated? First of all. Second of all, this song did not deserve to win anyways. Natalia: In comparison to the other songs nominated, Rosalía and Billie Eilish's song barely ranked, I believe. And even if it did, it was not a huge success. Maria: No, like I genuinely when I see it every time I'm like – I've heard it but it wasn't something that I added to a playlist. Natalia: Meanwhile, like “Dákiti” by Bad Bunny – all these songs charted so high. Maria: Yeah! Maluma's “Hawái” charted super high… Natalia: “Un Día”! Maria: “Un Día” charted super high! “Dákiti” was a huge success. Like, it doesn't make sense that they won, literally. Natalia: Also, because the other songs are a lot more representative of Latin music, I think. Maria: Oh, definitely.  Natalia: Yeah.  Maria: So, another reason why me and Nat talk a lot about the Rosalía issue is because she loves to say that she's Latina. Natalia: She made this entire TikTok, where it's like the audio.  Maria: Oh, yeah! “I'm an island girl...” Natalia and Maria:  “Me no speak-y English!” Natalia: As if she is either Dominican or Puerto Rican.  Maria: Yeah.  Natalia: And that's like, what she meant through the audio. And so like, even if you just read the comments, it's very polarized… Maria: We can read some of them if you want.  Natalia: Yeah.  Maria: Some of the comments on this TikTok are...People said, “Colonizer vibes,” “Spaniards when they colonized Latin America: Only espanish!” Everyone was arguing, like fighting. Yeah, cause people were like, “Why are you so pressed? Like she can say...she can do whatever she wants!” Natalia: And I think this is even like a debate within the Latin community. It's just like, to what extent? Maria: Yeah, like, I didn't get annoyed that much at like the TikTok. I – the thing that and Nat knows – this really made me mad. Um, Billboard has this series, called “Growing up Latino.” And they did an episode on Rosalía. And it was like, she was like, she says she feels 100% Latina because she feels at home in countries like Panama and Mexico. And people make her feel so nice. And like, okay? Natalia: It's one thing to like – obviously, she should feel welcomed in these countries, but another thing is to self identify. Maria: Yes. I don't want to say that like she's not... Natalia: Like discredited the challenges she… Maria: She's faced because like, obviously, it's hard to make it in the US music industry just...  Natalia: In general. Maria: Like, as someone who's international in general. But I still think that like – me and Nat have talked about this. There's a lot of Latino talent that deserves, also, recognition.  Maria: Yeah. And she's taking up those spaces, like by adding her into these categories and by continuing like – this isn't the first time she's gotten like a Latin VMA. Natalia: No, and like in 2019, like the Latin Grammys... Maria: Oh, yeah!  Natalia: She swept, which... Maria: Literally! Natalia: To the point where other Latino artists… Maria: Boycotted! Natalia: Boycotted. Like J. Balvin, who was like… Maria: Maluma.  Natalia: Maluma. Natalia: Like, I think Daddy Yankee even said something about it.  Maria: Yeah, I think so.  Natalia: And so like, these giant names within the industry… Maria: Were mad because it's true.  Natalia: These spaces were created for Latinos, and are being taken up by people who are not Latino. Maria: Exactly. And also, like, it's super annoying that she keeps getting placed in the urban category. Like the urban music category. And like, I wouldn't say that she makes urban music.  Natalia: It's similar to like – for like a more American reference – Tyler the Creator being placed within the rap category. Like a lot of people were mad about that. I think it was in 2020 when this happened, and even he was like, “I'm in this category because I'm black, not because of the music I produce.” But for Rosalía, she keeps being placed in the urban category, which is a predominantly like… Maria: A lot of urban music comes from Afro-Latino roots.  Natalia: And for a Spanish person, someone from Spain, to be nominated within those categories and taking up that space. Maria: Yeah, that just doesn't sit right with me. Natalia: That's problematic.  Maria: And it's like, me and Nat have said it over and over. This is not to discredit her.  Natalia: No.  Maria: She's made really good music, and like she's a great performer.  Natalia: I mean these past songs? Possibly... Maria and Natalia: Hmm. Maria: But wait, here's the thing though. I think that her songs have decreased in value because she's trying to replicate what she sees people like getting...like being successful in reggaeton. And like she's trying to get into dembow now! Natalia: So Rosalía is classically trained in flamenco and the beauty of her music is the way in which she fuses these like traditional flamenco sounds with a more modern take. And her, I think, even moving away from that in a sense is like...like her music has, in a way, not been as good. Or not as original. Like, her music isn't original anymore. Maria: No, like, it just sounds really basic to me now. Honestly, like, even if we discard the entire thing about her identity, I just genuinely think that she shouldn't be getting awards if her music is also just not that good anymore. Like, I'm sorry, but like it's just not that good anymore. Natalia: Maria and I have discussed this for a couple of years now, actually.  Maria: Yeah, it's been years actually.  Natalia: And it's honestly just like – it's a continuous problem going on within the industry. And obviously, like, we don't really have a means to solve it. But we do think it's important to bring light to these types of situations that are always kind of like swept under the rug.  Natalia: Her winning and being nominated is a representation of a bigger problem. Yeah, I think that needs to be discussed more. And obviously, like, this is like, we're only really touching the surface of this situation.  Natalia: She also stole Rauw Alejandro!  Maria: She also stole Rauw! That one me and Natalia will never be okay with.  Natalia: That's where a lot of people were like this is the line. Maria: Yes, she...That's it. That's where I draw the line. Good for her. Natalia: Get it, I guess.  Maria: Good for her. I mean, but... Natalia: Not our man!  Maria: Damn, that one hurt me! Oh, no. Yeah. Um, obviously, me and Nat are not experts. We are not scholars! This is just our opinion. Natalia: And our observations. Maria: Yes. And definitely, we can't solve anything. We have no type of power in the music industry. We are just two measly college students making a podcast. Natalia: But yes, if you obviously have different opinions, we're happy to hear it. And like, I think everyone has a different perspective on this. And there's a lot of debate.  Maria: Yes. Natalia: Even within the Latino community. Maria: Yeah. Cause I feel like there are some people who are like, and I'm not – this isn't in any way accusing – there are people who are willing to be like, “That's okay.” Some people – I mean, we're not going to get into this debate because this is a huge debate. And I don't think that also me and Nat have a say in what is cultural appropriation and what is cultural appreciation. That's a whole nother debate that we won't get into.  Natalia: And obviously, the lines are blurred in many cases.  Maria: Exactly. So it's like, we can't decide what's right or wrong. We can just talk about what doesn't sit right with us. But we can at least talk about the music industry, because I do think that that is indicative of a whole nother problem. Natalia: A bigger problem. Yeah, but yes, thank you for listening. Maria: This was a little bit more serious than we usually do. Hmm. Natalia: Let us know what you think.  Maria: Yes.  Natalia: Leave your thoughts in the comments.  Maria: I–Is this gonna be a recurring thing now? Natalia: Yes! Maria:  No, but yeah. Thank you so much for tuning in. And yeah, if you guys have any comments, or would like to have a discussion about this...  Natalia: Let us know!  Maria: Reach out to me or Nat. Natalia: And thank you so much for listening. Maria: Thank you so much. This has been Maria Caamaño. Natalia: And Natalia Camino. Maria: For NBN Audio. [“MALAMENTE,” by Rosalía] This podcast is powered by Pinecast.

Joining this episode of the True Love Knots is the most sought out wedding officiant, Maria Romano. Maria Romano is the founder of True Love Knots, a program she created specifically to help those looking for love later in life. An ordained minister and highly sought-after professional speaker, she has performed over 3000 marriages. Today, Maria explains how cuffing sometimes makes people find someone they chose to settle with, even if they weren't their ideal partner. Standout Quotes: “There are more people out there looking for love, quality love. And because of everything that's happened over the last year and a half, I'm finding more and more couples are really taking their time to find the right partner.” [Maria] “It's important that you list out the five must-haves that you have in a relationship and your deal-breakers as well. You don't want to be spending a season and be stuck in a cave with somebody you don't like, right? You want to spend time with somebody that makes you laugh, that somebody makes you feel good, you make them feel good, and you have commonalities.” [Maria] “With cuffing season, there are so many different ways to meet people. Make sure that you, you know you put yourself out there online.” [Maria] Key Takeaways: The phrase "cuffing" originated as a result of the approaching winter. And people prefer to hibernate, but they don't want to do so alone; they want someone to accompany them. They behave similarly to animals. They prepare for the winter when it becomes cold. During this season, some of us understand that you may get slightly more melancholy and that you may latch on to someone who is not the ideal fit for you. Therefore, even if we are currently in cuffing season and you are venturing out, putting yourself out there, and meeting new people, do not settle. It's cuffing season, and take time to consider the type of person you're searching for, what your relationship must-haves are, and what your deal breakers are; this is critical. And keep in mind that you want to locate the ideal individual for you. Episode Timeline: [00:02] Meet today's host “Maria Romano,” from True Love Knots [00:43] October: The Cuffing Season [01:35] Feeling Melancholy is Common Around this Time [01:56] Have your checklist when finding a partner [02:56] Different Ways to meet people [03:43] Maria's Website Information Learn more about Maria Romano and the True Love Knots at: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/maria-romano-tlk/ Website: https://trueloveknots.com/

Episode Notes [This episode was recorded during Latinx Heritage Month back in the month of October.] [“Volví,” by Aventura and Bad Bunny] Maria & Natalia: Hi! Welcome to “Guatever.”  Maria: A year later! Natalia: I'm Natalia Camino. Maria: And I'm Maria Caamaño. Natalia: And we're back. Maria: Yes, after a year. Natalia: This is going to be our re-introduction... Maria: Rebranding! Natalia: Rebrand! Rebrand! Season Two. Maria: Yes, we are back. So, life update. Um... Natalia: We've changed a lot since the last release of an episode.  Maria: Yeah. And, um, I mean, me and Nat went through COVID. We went through living together again, but this time it felt like prison? Natalia: For context...So last year, Maria and I were in a dorm together, but because of COVID that is where we slept… Maria: We had breakfast. We had classes. We had lunch...everything. Natalia: We had dance class in there. Keep in mind, this is in the same confinement. And we saw a total of two other people that entire six month period. Maria: I still don't know how 1) we found things to talk about. Natalia: We always found things to talk about. For six months.  Maria: I don't know how. Natalia: Nothing was happening in our lives. Maria: Literally nothing. Nothing. And also, I don't know how Nat and I just stayed friends. Truly a miracle because I don't think anyone could go through that and, like, not drive each other crazy. Natalia: This can be seen in the increased amount of divorce rates during the pandemic. Maria: I-What?  Natalia: Did you not know that? Maria: Yes! Natalia: But we didn't get divorced.  Maria: Okay. Natalia: We did not break up. But yes, Maria and I did not break up. We're still roommates. We're still friends. Maria: Yes, very much. So for kind of like the start, or kind of like our reintroduction, we wanted to do a special edition episode for Latinx Heritage Month. Natalia: Yeah. In case you didn't know Hispanic Heritage Month starts on September 15th. And this date is significant because it's the independence of many countries in Latin America, including Costa Rica, El Salvador, Guatemala, Honduras and Nicaragua. Then, on the 16th, Mexico and Chile celebrate their Independence Day.  Maria: Yes.  Natalia: And I made Maria watch El Grito with me.  Maria: Yes.  Natalia: On the eve of the 16th. Maria: But yeah, because we wanted to get into Latinx Heritage Month, me and Natalia were talking about this. And in the nature of how our podcast started, whenever she and I start talking about something continuously, we just decide to set the microphone on and start talking. So... Natalia: This is an ongoing debate.  Maria: Yes, it has been going on since freshman year. We've had fights. We've threatened each other with physical fights over this. Do you remember that?  Natalia: Um, Maria brings this up when we meet other Latinos, and she's like, “I need to ask.”  Maria: Yeah.  Natalia: It's for scientific research. Maria: So the big question today is: is it frijoles or habichuelas? Natalia: Both translate to “beans” in English.  Maria: Oh, yeah.  Natalia: For our non-Spanish speakers out there.  Maria: Yes.  Natalia: We're talking about the word for beans. Maria: Yes. I feel like beans is like the...I guess like if you were to say the “Latino food” that like all of the countries share. I feel like it has to be beans, right? Natalia: It's rice and beans.  Maria: Yes.  Natalia: Both very good. Maria: I love it. So much. So much. I miss it so much. Natalia: You just need to learn how to cook it.  Maria: STOP! Natalia: They sell beans here. And rice! Maria: I know! But I'm terrible at cooking. Natalia: I know. You're learning, though.  Maria: But um, essentially… Natalia: Maria wanted to introduce this debate and have us debate it on air, per se. Is that the correct term?  Maria: Yes.  Natalia: Okay. Maria: It's not because of that. It's because I don't think that there is anything more Latinx than Latinos fighting each other on which of the countries is right. Okay. So the countries that say habichuelas are Caribbean Spanish-speaking countries, such as Cuba, Puerto Rico, and – where I'm from – which is the Dominican Republic. So yeah, so South America and Central America mostly refer to it as... Natalia and Maria: frijoles.  Natalia: But yeah.... Maria: I'm outnumbered here, but I have a valid argument. Natalia: Okay. No, I think you...For context. I went to..In one of our few episodes from freshman year... Maria: Natalia was...This is a sad, tragic story. Natalia was about to leave for Spring Break to the DR with me. I think like… Natalia: Literally a week! Maria: Literally a week before COVID shut everything down. So, we were all like excited. Natalia had learned the lingo...she was practicing her slang! And then… Natalia: Because there's a lot of Dominican slang. Maria: Yeah. And then like the week that COVID got [our plans] shut down she told me that she wasn't coming, which was obviously a great idea. But at the moment, we didn't know how long COVID was about to be… Natalia: Yeah. Maria: So, like, we both just started crying. It was very sad. But... Natalia: I did end up going though!  Maria: Yes. Ever since then though, it was like we were planning for it, and then Nat came this summer and finally understood. Natalia: Yes. But the way this fits into the habichuelas versus frijoles argument is that I was like ordering food and at one point, I was like, “Oh, yeah. And could I have some frijoles?” And the person just looked at me.  Maria: Silence. Natalia: Silence. It's like the embodiment of the eye mouth eye emoji.  Maria: Yes.  Natalia: And then I was like, “Oh, perdon. Habichuelas.” [Translation: “Sorry. Beans.”] Maria: Also for more context, me and Nat feel the need to debate things constantly because we were both MUN kids. Natalia: I was Model UN President. Maria: I was Vice President. Natalia: Miss Harry Potter Club President also. Maria: I was the president of the Harry Potter Club in middle school. Natalia: What is it? You're the number one ranking person for Harry Potter trivia? Maria: Yeah, I like reached the number one person in the Harry Potter category in the Dominican Republic on QuizUp. I don't know if you remember that app?  Natalia: Yes.  Maria: I don't know. I feel like – obviously, I am not the reigning champion right now. But I reached it! I was number one for like a solid amount of time. Natalia: What do you mean a solid amount of time? Maria: I don't know, for like a month maybe? I don't remember! But it's still one of my achievements. If I could put it on my resume, I would. Resume: Harry Potter President, eighth grade. Natalia: And then under awards and, like, honors… Maria: Number one! Natalia: Out of...National champ! Maria: No, but yeah. So, because Nat and I are MUN kids, we ended up talking about this, said “Let's set up a debate.” It's a quick one because obviously none of us are going to win. Natalia: Would you like to start? Maria: Yes. Yes, I do. I would like to start. My argument for habichuelas is that, first of all, I think it sounds prettier. Two... Natalia: I disagree. Maria: I- That's a you thing. That's a you opinion. Natalia: Okay, well, considering it is the Spanish who invented Spanish. They call it frijoles. The correct word is frijoles.  Maria: I don't know! If you see us on campus, tell us your thoughts.  Natalia: We'll keep track. We'll keep track.  Maria: Yes. Okay, so Latin American slang just does not make any sense. Natalia: No. Now for a more controversial take. Maria: Everyone in Latin America, honestly, has a different word for straw.  Natalia: Yeah, like each country and even different regions within the country sometimes. Maria: Yeah, it's like the most difficult one, I think. Natalia: But no one knows the origins of any of them really. Maria: Mine's the weirdest one. We're the ones that strayed the furthest away from everyone. You go first, because mine's the one that's the most controversial. Natalia: So in Mexico, or at least the area I grew up in, It's called popote.  Maria: In DR, it's called calimete. Which, honestly, I will never understand where it came from. Because all of the Latin American countries have like sorbete, popote, pajita – things like that. But then like us it's just calimete.  Natalia: None of them fully make sense.  Maria: I don't know why it sounds so right in my brain. Natalia: No, popote sounds right. Maria: Here's the thing. Popote sounds like poop to me. Natalia: But it fits the item. It feels like the right word for a straw. Maria: I will disagree. I will say that a lot of people call...I think that sorbete is the one that – to my ears – I'm like, that's not the one I say, but that's the one that I'm like, “it makes sense.” Like sorbete because you sorber through it. [Translation: “because you sip through it.”] Natalia: Oh, I guess that one does make a little more sense.  Maria: That one makes sense. But then like, um... Natalia: But also! Unrelated – well, related –but straw in English also doesn't make sense. Like, is it supposed to look like a [straw]? Maria: I don't know.  Natalia: Hmm.  Maria: That one's also a weird one. Natalia: Question all reality. Maria: Not us going into etymology! Natalia: Econ degree where? But yes, that is all.  Maria: Is it all?  Natalia: No, there are a lot more words we can get into.  Maria: Yes, but... Natalia: Let us know in the comments what word you want us to debate next. Um, but yes, this was our intro episode.  Maria: Clearly… Natalia: We have lost it a little. Maria: A little bit. But we will be getting back into our regularly scheduled programming. We do have new episodes coming up soon. We just really wanted to do something for Latinx Heritage Month. Natalia: More lighthearted.  Maria: Yes. And something that also, like, me and Nat always are talking about music, but not everyone listens to music that's Latin music. Not all Latinos listen to Latin music, so we wanted to do something that was just in general for the Latinx community here. Natalia: Yeah. Be on the lookout for episodes. Or don't. But, thank you for listening. Maria: Yes! We do appreciate the people who listen to it. Natalia: We do appreciate it.  Maria: So thank you so much for listening to this episode of Guatever!  Natalia: This has been Natalia Camino. Maria: And Maria Caamaño. For NBN Audio.  [“Volví,” by Aventura and Bad Bunny] This podcast is powered by Pinecast.

Know the value of your VO worth! Anne welcomes voice talent and rate negotiation expert, Maria Pendolino. They cover red flags in contracts, rate setting in an evolving industry, and how to educate clients on what you really provide as a talent and as a #VOBOSS. In this episode, Maria shares her thoughts on negotiation within the AI landscape, contract red flags, and more… Get more at https://voboss.com/voice-and-ai-negotiation-strategies-for-digital-voice-maria-pendolino/ Transcript >> It's time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. Anne: Hey everyone. Welcome to the VO BOSS podcast, the AI and Voice series. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, and today I'm thrilled to have award-winning voice actor and negotiation educator Maria Pendolino with me today. Maria frequently presents at conferences and in the community about rates, negotiation, and quoting your worth. And she's absolutely amazing and phenomenal. She's also the founder of millennialvoiceover.com, where she helps companies speak millennial as well as bluewavevoiceover.com, which is a hub for progressive and Democratic voiceover services. And she lives in Buffalo, New York, which is literally 40 minutes away from where I grew up, with her husband and three HDTV famous studio cats, Nelly, Mozzi, and Two Scoops. I love those names, Maria. Thanks so much for joining me today. Welcome. Maria: Thank you for having me. They're the real stars. Really. I work for them. Anne: I hear that with my three, but I love the names Mazel and Two Scoops. I'm wondering where the Two Scoops name came from. Maria: Yeah, so we have his, hers, and ours cats. So Two Scoops is my husband's cat that he adopted before we were dating. And he said, when he picked her up as a kitten, she fit in his hands, like two scoops of ice cream. Anne: Oh, that's so cute. Maria: That's what she looked like, like head and butt. And then Nelly is my cat that I adopted, and then Mozzi is short for mozzarella cheese. So she's the one that we adopted together. So her full name, her, her regal given name is Mozzarella Cheese Pendolino Brownton, so Mozzi, Mozzi for short, when she's just palling around with the girls. Anne: I love Mozzi. That's fantastic. [laughs] Oh, that's amazing. Well, we love our studio animals don't we? Maria: We sure do. Anne: That is for sure. So tell the BOSSes -- if they don't know you by now, they really should. So tell us a little bit about yourself and how it is that you became a master negotiator. Maria: Sure, absolutely. I have been acting since I was like 11 years old. I was one of the most annoying musical theater children who was begging their parents to drive them to open calls for the community theater production of Sound of Music. Like that is who I grew up to be. I went to college for theater, and I moved to New York City right after I graduated from college. And I actually had a full-time job in banking at the time. I took the job as a way to get to the city. And my plan was, I'm going to work for a year, pay off some of my student loans, maybe learn how to dance a little bit better, and then I'm going to be on Broadway. Turns out that didn't happen. [laughs] So I actually ended up working for the bank for almost 10 years, and I was good at it. I was a people person. I was a hard worker, and I moved up, and I was getting promoted, and I was making a lot of money and it was great. Then I was doing acting on the side. So I was auditioning for the off, off, off, off, off, off, off, off Broadway. Uh, I was doing cabarets and things that, you know, were rehearsing at night or weekends. And then, you know, if something big came up, I would like take a day off of work or tell people I had like a dentist appointment. I know one time I got an audition for the Hairspray movie that John Travolta was in. And I literally like took a half day at work and was like, I have a doctor's appointment. And I'm like running to Midtown to audition for a movie, you know, keeping -- stuffing my banking clothes, like, in my tote bag. So I did that. And then the recession hit in, you know, around 2008, 2010. And I found myself sitting in a cubicle graveyard at a bank, and I was like, God, this is not really what I wanted to do with my life. And I think I need to make a change. So, uh, I quit my job, and I kind of pushed myself into acting full-time. Um, I was doing mostly theater, TV, and film in New York. And I looked at voiceover and commercials in general as just like a sidecar opportunity. Like, oh, maybe you can squeeze one of these in between a booking or, you know, they happen occasionally. And then I started to realize how much I really loved voiceover. Like, you get to come into the booth, you do your work, you leave. You don't get picked up by hair and makeup at 3:00 in the morning. Anne: Yeah, right? Maria: You're not on set for 18 hours. And I was like, what am I doing with my life? At the same time, I was kind of having this realization and some of my voiceover work was taking off, I was also experiencing some difficulties. I have psoriatic arthritis and, um, I was having trouble with my knees and my joints, and New York being the pedestrian wonderland that it is -- Anne: Yes. Maria: -- it's just harder and harder to get around. And I was like, you know what? If I made this pivot, if I invested into my voiceover career and everything that that could be, I could have a full life as a working actor and not have to worry about, you know, this health and physical challenge that sometimes rears its ugly head. You know, you can walk into a studio and just say like, hey, can I have a stool? Nobody bats an eye. Anne: Right, right. Maria: You know, so yeah, around 2014, that's when I kind of made the, the sharp right turn, left turn, whichever way you want to go, uh, into voiceover to have that be my primary acting pursuit. And I've been a full-time voice actor ever since I've been doing voiceover now for about 11 years total, but as a full-time voice actor for about seven years. Anne: And you are a dynamo for sure. I look up to you [laughs] especially for those negotiation skills, which I think have come in super handy with the events of the day. Not even the events of the day today, but literally always in our businesses, we need to be good negotiators in order to be successful. Maria: Absolutely. Anne: Yeah. I mean, as you know, there's been all sorts of discussions recently about new technologies on the horizon and jobs with, you know, for TTS, for synthesized voices, AI voices, that's all the buzz. And, uh, I'd like to get your opinion. What are your thoughts on these new technologies? Are they going to be taking our jobs away? Maria: I think they're all very interesting. I think, I think some will take jobs away, but that's also how, you know, the evolution of industry works, you know? Anne: Yeah. Maria: Uh, cars took away the jobs of the horses and the carts and all of that. Anne: Yeah. Maria: Like there's a thousand things that you can point to that, you know, the new, the new item kind of superseded what we had always done. Anne: Right, right. Maria: I think the, the things that will be the first kind of stuff to go as the AI and synthesized voices get better and better and more fine-tuned and really have, you know, a natural voice engine as opposed to something more robotic, is just going to be some of the low hanging fruit. Anne: Yeah. Maria: You know, if somebody, you know, would normally hire an actor to do a scratch session, they're going to use an AI voice to do the scratch session, and then hire an actor to do the real thing. Companies that have historically low-balled actors saying, oh, we pay $.03 a word and $.05 a word -- Anne: Right. Maria: -- instead of a more industry standard, you know, $.30 or $.40 a word, those companies are going to turn to using AI voices when they're good enough to meet their client's expectations, because they clearly weren't putting a huge value on the talent in the first place. Quality of the voice was never the most important thing that they were searching for. They were searching for the best price and then assuming that everything else would just be good enough. So I think those types of things will absolutely be affected as the AI voice engines get better and better. But I think things that require an actor, like truly require an actor -- so you have genres like animation and video games, commercials -- I just can't see an advertising agency that is, you know, working on a multi-million dollar brand campaign that includes on-camera actors, uh, media buys of multimillion dollars saying, you know what, we're not going to pay the voiceover actor, their session fee and their usage. And instead, we're going to go to a synthetic voice and trust this multimillion dollar production -- Anne: Sure. Maria: -- and this multi-billion dollar media buy to that. So, you know, I think there are some genres that maybe have a little bit more protection, but where acting hasn't been the primary concern, and perhaps it's been more about just, you know, a get it done mentality, or where voiceover has been, you know, for accessibility compliance only, as opposed to something that they truly invest in -- I'm thinking of things like audio description -- Anne: Yup. Maria: -- or audio narration just for perhaps a visually impaired community -- I think it's possible that those types of things would be replaced by a high quality AI engine. But the flip side of that is they currently use voices to make AI engines. So the question is -- Anne: Exactly. Maria: -- do you, as a voice actor, want to be a part of that new side of the business, the same way that, you know, did you want to be a voice that is going to be on the internet before the internet was coming around? Anne: Yeah, right. Maria: As these new technologies like emerge, do you want to be a part of that? And the question is, does it affect your business in a positive or negative way to do that? Anne: Sure. Maria: And that's what we're seeing, you know, with the story that came out with Bev Standing and TikTok. You know, can it, can it have a positive effect on your business? Can it have a negative effect on your business? And also are you in the driver's seat? Is -- Anne: Oh, absolutely. Maria: -- are you choosing -- Anne: Absolutely. Maria: -- to make the engine and be a part of that, or is someone making that choice for you? Which that puts the voice actor kind of in that negative position, that feeling like you're being taken advantage of. Anne: Sure. Maria: But I think those are two very different things, choosing to do it, being compensated fairly, agreeing to do the work, versus having your intellectual property stolen. Anne: Yeah. I mean, excellent, excellent point. So I think it's so very important now more than ever with what you just said for us as talent to know our worth. And so whether we choose to go digitally or, you know, we want to be in that, in that arena, I think we need to be compensated fairly, and we need to know that yes, our voices are worth something, and we need to, I think that stems from knowing your worth. What can you speak to about that sentiment and how it can affect us moving forward in the industry? Maria: Yeah. Knowing, knowing your worth and what your work is worth is kind of like one of the top five things that you need to do as a business owner. Anne: Yeah. Maria: You know, you can't just open a restaurant, and put the menus on the table, and just say like, I'm not sure what you should pay for that salad. Do you know what you should pay for that salad? That's not how a business operates. So I think it behooves everyone to do their own research and figure out what's right for them and their business and their investment of time and their workflow and everything. There's not one universal, you know, price or policy that you can say like, this is the way it has to be, but there are, you know, we have industry standard guides, and we have, you know, industry experts that you can, you can draw upon. But doing that research and actually coming up with an answer for yourself is a really critical thing. You know, you can make your own internal rate card or rate document for, you know, your most popular categories or your most popular hits, if you will. So that, you know, when you get an email from a client, and they ask you for a quote, or they ask for more information, you don't have to go back to square one every time. Anne: Right, right. Maria: And you don't have to publish that document. You don't have to put it on your website. Anne: Absolutely. Maria: That can just be your internal cheat sheet, but keeping in mind the, you know, the value of the different things. So, you know, being compensated for a session fee, being compensated for usage and understanding the difference -- Anne: Right, right. Maria: -- between being paid to actually do the work, the time you spent doing the work, versus being paid for your voice being licensed for a period of time, for a specific purpose. I think a lot of people come into the marketplace as a freelancer, whether that's voiceover or otherwise. And if you have come from like a traditional 9-to-5, or you came from, you know, an hourly wage job, and somebody tells you, I need you to do a voiceover for a 30-second piece, and we're going to pay you $350 -- if you're accustomed to making $13.75 an hour -- Anne: Yeah, that sounds great. Maria: -- doing something for 30 seconds for $300 sounds amazing. And a lot of times I think, you know, people, people get very angry and defensive about kind of the commoditization of voiceover and how on online casting sites, or sites like Upwork or Fiverr, or, you know, the voiceover specific sites, you know, that everything is down to this like bottom line price. A lot of times, I don't even think it comes from client malfeasance. I think it comes from they just don't know. They're like, well, a 30-second voiceover will probably take them 15 minutes to record. Anne: Exactly. Maria: Probably you need to pay them for an hour. And it's just, I think the way that you can best empower yourself as a talent and as a small business owner, who's running a voiceover business, is to take the time to truly understand the different services you provide, what the, you know, industry standard ranges are for those services, whether you're -- Anne: Right. Maria: -- working with union scale or whether you're using non-union rate guides to approximate your ranges, and then find yourself some language, some go-to statements that you can be equipped with. Anne: Right, right. Maria: So when a client says to you $1,500 for a 30-second spot? That's insane. Anne: Right. Maria: And you can say, well, you're not paying me for 30 seconds. Anne: Right. Maria: You're paying me because you'd like to use it for a year and a half or whatever it is. Anne: You know, and you mentioned something earlier about, you don't always have to go back to square one, but if we are actually on the forefront of, let's say, developing a rate guide for TTS or synthesized AI voices, I think it's kind of cool to be on the ground floor of that so that, you know, a lot of times, as a, as an entrepreneur and a business owner, sometimes there is no category. Sometimes there is no established rate for it. And I think there's a lot to be said for an entrepreneur or, you know, a successful business person that really, sometimes you just have to make a rate. [laughs] Maria: Yeah. Anne: There's nothing necessarily to base it on. And I just want those BOSSes out there to know that sometimes there is nothing to base it on. I mean, there's things that are relevant in the rate guides, and -- but sometimes you have to come up with that number yourself. And that takes a lot of courage actually. And people don't necessarily realize that. And that's why I'm sure, Maria, that you have gotten frantic texts or emails from people saying, oh my gosh, it's my first job. I have no idea what to charge. Can you help? Maria: Absolutely. Anne: That just happens all the time. And I just want to say that if we are on the, if we were on the brink of a new like category or a new type of voiceover, don't be afraid to go out there and make a, a price for yourself. But again, as, as you were saying, we have to know our worth, and we can at least have baselines from other genres that we can at least establish. And we can also, you know, start a community too, that we can say, what do you think? Is this? And then we can kind of establish a baseline for that. Maria: Yeah, absolutely. I think, you know, it's important for people to understand that you are an individual business, and ultimately in the, in the free market, in the spirit of competition, you have the ability to set your price at whatever you want. Anne: Right. Maria: And I think you can use the tools that are available to you. You can do a lot of research. You can check in with peers, ask for a gut check, whatever. But at the end of the day, the paycheck is going to hit your checking account. Anne: Right. Maria: Not anyone else's. You don't owe an explanation to the entire community that you work with based on whatever you chose. At the end of the day, you get to decide how much you pick up the mic for, and your price is different than my price, is different than the next person's price. Anne: Right. Maria: And it should be, it should be. It should be your individual calculation of what you want. But I agree with you, you know, there, there are things that are emerging every year. There's a different type or way for voiceover to be used, whether that is, you know, new and exciting, uh, avenues for advertising. You know, we've seen things go from broadcast TV, to streaming TV, to dynamic audio insertions. Anne: Yeah. Maria: You know, you're listening to online radio, and it knows that -- Anne: Yup. Maria: -- you live in this area, and you're getting the lunchtime message. And it's all calibrated in these different ways. There will continue to be innovations. So we, as an industry that is adjacent to these other industries, we also have to innovate. And if you want to take advantage of these new and burgeoning opportunities, you have to be kind of Intrepid and put yourself out there, and then -- Anne: Absolutely. Maria: -- rely on professionals and peers, whether that is an accountant, or a lawyer, or an agent, or a manager, rely on the people that you have in your circle, in your team to gut check you, to review things. Pay a lawyer to review a contract and make sure that you are not giving away or signing away or missing something. Anne: Right. There's a lot of legalese. There's a lot of new terms. And if you don't understand something, ask. Don't just assume that it's all going to be okay, because that's not the case. That's not the world we live in. And I do think that actors in particular, and I think this probably applies to a lot of artists -- you know, we have a scarcity mentality sometimes. Anne: Absolutely. Maria: You are trained as an actor to believe that each job leads to the next job. Oh, the director is really gonna like you, they'll hire you for the next job. Anne: Right. Maria: You got to do a good job. You gotta be a team player. So we have this mentality of like, we have to say yes to anything, 'cause it could lead to the next thing. Oh, if you do this ad, even though they're using, you know, a low budget, whatever, you know, they'll keep you in mind when they do the next, you know, big one or whatever. And it's like, well, okay, you know, that sounds like a good opportunity. And you have to evaluate those as they come along. But it doesn't mean that you have to be in the backseat for your career. Anne: Absolutely. Maria: It doesn't mean that you have to take a backseat and just accept what's being given to you. You can still be very active. You can negotiate. You can tell them that you don't agree with terms, you know, if they're written out on a contract or a scope of work. You have to be an active participant in that. Anne: Absolutely. And I think that's super important. So I would say, tip number one, at least in a lot of cases where people have asked me, I always say, don't be afraid to negotiate and mark up a contract. I mean, you absolutely have that right. What would you say, what would be your best tips in terms of when you're negotiating with clients on pricing for any jobs? Maria: Sure. Anne: But I'm thinking specifically for these new ones that might be coming up because there's a lot of ways that our voices can be used, and as we've seen with, with the TikTok case and Bev, we just didn't intend. And so what would you, what sort of red flags would you look out for, and what tips could you give us when negotiating with clients on those types of jobs? Maria: Absolutely. So some of the red flags that you want to look out for are the phrasing, you know, usage in all media. And that could be followed by "currently in existence or to be invented." So it's like, you know, we want to be able to use the voiceover that you're providing on literally anything that exists now and anything that gets invented. So that is typically a red flag indicating that, especially if you do commercial work, that that could, you know, create conflicts in your business. Because they're saying that even though you're agreeing to do this project for this specific purpose, let's say they wanted you for an explainer video or something, you're actually giving them the right to use that explainer video in an all media kind of release. They could use it on television, they could use it on phone systems. They could use it in a TTS engine. They could use it on the moon. That's the kind of -- Anne: Right. Maria: -- rights and usage that you're giving away. Another phrase that you want to look out for is transformative rights or, uh, rights to create derivative content. And those are the phrases that specifically come into play when it comes to things like TTS and synthesized voices. So by giving them the right to transform your voice files, that's how they can be transformed into a voice engine like a TTS. Anne: Absolutely. Maria: Or the derivative rights, meaning "we hired you to do a voice for a telephone system. And because you did such a multitudinous amount of recordings, we can actually create other derivative recordings from the work that you did. We can slice and dice or whatever and create new recordings. And then we don't have to pay you for them." Anne: Right. Maria: So you want to look out for releases that include transformative rights or the right to create derivative content. The other thing you can look out for is the kind of standard work product and copyright language. Most of the time, you know, clients will tell you that when you are being hired, the voiceover that you're providing is work for hire, work product for hire. And therefore they are going to have the right to copyright that material. If you're doing a very, very large project, or if you are involved in the creative aspect of it and are not just, you know, voice talent reading script for hire, you may want to try and negotiate out that so that you can retain the copyright -- Anne: Right. Maria: -- to your voice files. Anne: Good stuff, good stuff. Now, in regards to, if you don't sign a contract, when I spoke to Rob, Bev's lawyer, he was stating that because there was no contract, if it was recorded in her studio, they belong -- the copyrights belong to her. Maria: That's really interesting. Yeah. I mean, I don't do a contract for every job. Anne: Right, right. Maria: You know, if, if a client sends me a contract, I read it and you know, my best practice is to come back to the client, if I want to make changes. And I say, hey, I'd like to make some adjustments to the contract. Am I okay to -- Anne: Right. Maria: -- you know, strike and initial? Anne: Exactly. Maria: Or would you like me to, you know, state my comments so that you can edit the document? And then it goes from there. But, you know, I make sure that in the email, I'm always kind of stating or restating like what we've agreed. Anne: Exactly. Maria: So if I audition for a project on an online casting site, and perhaps, you know, the usage, isn't 100% clear, when they come back to me and say like, hey, we got your audition. We'd love to work with you. My reply will always be, great. I'd like to confirm the usage for the piece. Anne: Yes. Maria: This is my understanding. Is that correct? And I make sure that I get some kind of affirmative reply from them. Anne: Excellent. Maria: I feel like, you know, that kind of protects me in that way. Anne: No, absolutely. That's a, that's a great tip. Maria: Yeah. But I, there are definitely jobs that I've walked away from. Anne: Yeah. Maria: You know, I walked away from, you know, what would have been a, a multi-level project job because they had a kind of all-inclusive boiler plate release that was written by a general counsel who may or may not still work at the company. And I explained to them very plainly, like why I had a problem with it. And I was like, you are asking for everything and the kitchen sink, but you are absolutely not going to use it for everything and the kitchen sink based on the scope of the project. And also you are not paying for everything and the kitchen sink. I am happy to give you the exact usage that this project requires. Anne: Exactly. Maria: And if you need it for something else later, I'd be happy to negotiate with you. Anne: Yes. Maria: But I'm not going to give you broadcast television rights, for press one, press two phone prompts. That's just not going to happen. Um, and they were like, we're sorry, we can't make any changes to that release. You know, we'll consider, we'll consider this canceled. And it's like, bon voyage, sorry. Anne: So I love that you just gave that scenario because that really is a wonderful tip in terms of when you are communicating with a client in clarifying usage of what things you need to look out for and what things that you can specify. You know, I've gotten to the point where my terms, you know, for the licensing of anything non-broadcast is, you know, is a particular length of time. And I specify that in my email. And so when there's the back and forth, and there's the agreement, it then becomes my quote, unquote contract, so to speak. And also, I know other people who do it on the invoice, but I don't think that's the right timing. What are your thoughts about that? Maria: Yeah. I know some people have like their terms on the invoice and basically the paying of the invoice signifies that, you know, they accept the terms, and I think that's fine. The problem is that, what happens if you've done the job, and you've had, you know, casual back and forth on email, but didn't go -- Anne: Right. Maria: -- into like deep, deep, nitty-gritty, and they get your invoice, they see your terms in the like, hey, you know, I've just had a training with our legal department -- Anne: Right, yeah. Maria: and I'm not allowed to sign this. I'm not allowed to pay this based on what you've said. Can we deal with it? And it's like, well, what happens? My invoices typically I send maybe like three or four days after a session in my personal workflow. What if I've already delivered them the audio? It could already be on television -- Anne: Right. Maria: -- by the time that they get the invoice and are not agreeing with it. Anne: Right. Maria: So I think if you want to use that as a, like a backup or like a final, like, thing that's on a piece of paper outside of email, that's fine. But I don't think that anything on your invoice should come as a surprise to your client after you've already done the session, conducted the work or anything like that. That feels a little bit like a bait and switch -- Anne: Right. Maria: -- if you didn't have the conversation about what's in those terms ahead of time. Anne: Good advice. Now, I'm going to assume that if you have an agent that might be negotiating on your behalf, or you're, maybe you're a member of the union, there are, there are other resources for you, legal resources or resources that can help you with negotiation. Any tips on that particular topic, on agents, the union, or just going at your own? Maria: Yeah, absolutely. You know, I think, you know, just, just like anything else, some people are comfortable with it and some people aren't. Anne: Yeah. Maria: You know, I, I had the benefit of working in business for several years and kind of got comfortable with corporate legalese and, you know, dealing with larger companies and entities. So I'm personally comfortable negotiating for myself. I work with a lawyer if I have a contract that I feel is particularly laborious that I would like some help reading, or maybe I just -- Anne: Agreed. Maria: -- like to delegate with confidence. I would rather pay you $250 to read -- Anne: Yup. Maria: -- versus me sitting with these 30 pages and a glass of pinot. Anne: Yeah. I completely agree with you. I am right there with you. Maria: Yeah. And I have, I have a fantastic management team. I'm represented by some really great agents in different cities. And, you know, if I felt that it was in their area of expertise, or it related to a similar project that we had done, I would absolutely not have a problem to call them in and help me out with that. Anne: Great. Maria: But the majority of things that I'm negotiating on my own fall into the industrial and non-broadcast categories. Anne: Mm-hmm, absolutely. Maria: These are the medical narration, corporate narration, e-learning. And not that my agents and managers aren't capable of handling that, but actually I don't want them spending their time on that. I want them spending their time finding the next fantastic ad agency to work with, finding fantastic auditions for me. And I want them to focus on that. I actually don't want them to focus on spending, you know, two hours hammering it out, a $.30 per word -- Anne: Right. Maria: -- narration contract. Anne: e-Learning narration, right. Maria: It's just, it's not what they do best, and it's not the focus of their business. So, you know, I'm not going to delegate it that way. If you are the type of talent that 85, 90% of what you do comes from your agent and you get a job out of the blue occasionally here and there, and you're just not comfortable with that, then absolutely, use them and allow them to take the commission of it. For a talent like that, it would absolutely be worth it. For someone like me, who's built up a huge industrial business -- Anne: Right. Maria: -- that I've sourced through my own marketing and my own auditioning, my agents and managers aren't involved in that kind of industrial side of my business. I'm not really sure if the union has resources with regards to negotiation. Obviously just by virtue of having, you know, fantastic contracts that are very -- Anne: Right. Maria: -- you know, talent protected. You're -- automatically, you get some, some base productions there. So if you're working on a union contract, and they're using the standard SAG-AFTRA -- Anne: Well, I would say they're using lawyers. Yeah. Maria: Yeah. Using the standard SAG-AFTRA paperwork, then you have your actor protections built in right there, but I've always found, you know, the membership and the voiceover help team there to be very helpful. So if you were working on a union project and you had questions about the contract or questions about, you know, the particular usages of the project that you're working on, I'm sure that, you know, they'd be, they'd be able to help. Anne: Wow. Fantastic advice, Maria. I really appreciate you spending time with us today. Where can BOSSes get in touch with you? I also hear you've got a course on negotiation coming out. So that is a very cool thing that I would recommend. Or how can they get in touch and consult with you? Maria: Yeah, absolutely. I'm putting the finishing touches on my online course about negotiation. It's a self-paced course that you can kind of come back to again and again, and it goes over some of my favorite phrases to keep conversations going when you're -- Anne: Fantastic. Maria: -- negotiating with clients, some suggestions for, you know, how to ask clients for their budget and how to negotiate from there. Hopefully it'll be coming out in about a month or two. If you would like a notification when the course is live and you can purchase it, also be giving out some discount codes. You can send me an email at hello@voicebymaria.com. And I'll add you to the list for notification. I have been kind of full up on my coaching and consulting calendar for both business coaching and negotiation coaching, but I will be opening up my calendar again after the VOcation Conference. So if you would like similarly a notification when there are slots available on the calendar to book either a negotiation coaching or a business coaching, again, just send me an email, hello@voicebymaria.com. And I will add you to the blast list to know when there are slots to gobble up. Anne: Awesome. Maria, thank you so very much for your time again, I'm going to give a great, big shout-out to our sponsor ipDTL. You too can connect and negotiate like BOSSes using ipDTL technology. Find out more at ipdtl.com. You guys, have an amazing week, and we'll see you next week. Bye! Maria: Bye! >> Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voboss.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to Coast connectivity via ipDTL.

Episode Notes _This episode was recorded back in May of 2020, following the release of J Balvin’s Colores. _ Link to Spotify playlist: https://open.spotify.com/playlist/2CbYfcdLARdCyol8HUMmYL?si=63tDfgxGQMif9cl647g69Q [“Reggaeton,” by J Balvin] Natalia: Hi! Maria: Welcome to Guatever! Social distancing edition! Natalia: So, Maria and I are currently almost 3,000 miles away. I am in the state of Michigan – sadly – and Maria is in the Dominican Republic. Maria: We are doing this over Zoom. So, we want to acknowledge that the audio might not be the best quality. Natalia: I'm sorry if that hurts your ears. So, today we're talking about J Balvin, who is one of the biggest Latino artists in the music industry. Maria: Yes, we've talked about him multiple times, but not really focused on who he is as an artist. Natalia: So, you’ve probably heard J Balvin’s name before since, like Maria mentioned, we've talked about him when we talked about “I Like It”. He also performed in the Superbowl back in February. He also headlined Coachella, Tomorrowland, and Lollapalooza. And actually performed with Beyonce at – I think it was Coachella? Maria: Yeah. Natalia: In 2018. Maria: He was also given the title of artist of the decade by Spotify with Ariana Grande. Natalia: But even though he's had like 327 nominations and winning 82 awards, a lot of people still don't know who he is. Especially, I think, in the United States because I think globally his name is a lot more recognized but here it still isn't. Maria: Yes, definitely. I agree. Natalia: So, who is he? Maria: So, his full name is José Álvaro Osorio Balvin and he's from Medellin, Colombia. Natalia: Yeah. So, he originally first started performing at urban clubs in Medellin, slowly increasing his social media following. So, he actually even went to university and studied international business. So, some of you guys probably have heard some of his songs where he goes for the stage name El Negocio, meaning the business. That's where it comes from. Because he studied international business. Just a fun fact. Maria: So one of the reasons why J Balvin is also such a big icon is because he's one of those artists that has always tried to globalize Latin music. He's fluent in English, but he also makes a point to always make his music in Spanish because what he wants to do is to make reggaeton a globally popular genre without having to sing in English...which most Latin artists that have made it big in the US have done. Natalia: For sure. Like, if you think about like Shakira, Enrique Iglesias, or Ricky Martin they all had to release albums in English in order to be successful. But J Balvin has acquired the success he has without really ever singing in English. Maria: Even Pitbull! Oh, no. Natalia: Even Pitbull. Maria: Oh, no. Natalia: Critics have even called J Balvin one of the greatest global contemporary songwriters and artists in any genre because of this. Because he just globalized music. Because, like, in his album Vibras he knows that his audience, a lot of them don't necessarily speak Spanish, but that they can still enjoy his music just by the vibes they get from it and how he doesn't necessarily...like...he thinks music is a global language. That language in itself doesn't need to be what deters people from listening to him. Maria: Yes, and I think that's also why he made a point to call his album Vibras. Also, I think that if you know J Balvin it's probably because of his song “Mi Gente”. And the entire point of the song “Mi Gente” is to express that feeling that you might not know the language, but music really makes other people from other countries and like, from whatever culture you're from, really bond. And I think that's one of the messages he really tries to emphasize with his music. Natalia: “Mi Gente”, J Balvin described it, how it was kind of a criticism against the music industry and how it discriminates against music that is all in Spanish. I think if you, like, swipe up on Spotify and read the little genius description or whatever on the song you can see it. But also the song itself is produced with a French DJ. And then the remix is with Beyonce. So, in itself, the song is already so global. Plus his global platform just made it a universal song that everyone can enjoy. Maria: Yes. I think also the message that J Balvin tries to spread a lot of the time is that – we talked about this – but like, he really emphasizes that you shouldn't have to make that transition from your native language to another one just to fit whatever people want to hear. I think what he really strives for with his music is to have his own unique sound that anyone can enjoy, despite not being able to understand whatever he says. Natalia: Yeah. And I think also he understands what happens when songs are translated or like the English remix. We've all heard those like English remix of Spanish songs, which are just not good. They're not good at all. They just don't work because the meaning of the song is literally lost in translation. Maria: Yes. Natalia: Like, it's not. It's not what the music was supposed to be like. It was supposed to be in Spanish. Maria: Yeah, it's not like what the artist intended in the end. Natalia: Yeah. Maria: I agree. I mean, have you ever heard the version of “Loba” by Shakira, and then “She Wolf” by Shakira? It's not the same! Natalia: What other song? There was another song. Maria: We were talking about one of them one day, I think. Let me try and see. Natalia: Was that the CNCO song? Maria: Any CNCO song that is translated into English I hate and you know this. Natalia: The Meghan Trainor...this is...this is diverging. This is not J Balvin, but the CNCO remix with Meghan Trainor? Trash. It's so bad. But yes. Maria: The CNCO remix with like Little Mix… Natalia: Also bad. Maria: Also terrible. Nat is an avid CNCO fan. This is why we mention this. Natalia: I do not need to be exposed like that. But I did take a train from Michigan to Chicago senior year to go to a CNCO concert. So… Maria: But um... Natalia: Back to J Balvin. Maria: Yeah. Natalia: Yeah. So J Balvin also, kind of like how we talked about at the beginning, he grew his social media presence. And he did this through YouTube back when YouTube was first starting out. And YouTube recognized this, and his fame and all his success, and they actually made it a YouTube documentary, which I really encourage everyone to watch. It's really interesting. It shows how he rose to fame and how he's actually a pretty humble guy. Maria: Yeah. Natalia: Which is really interesting. Maria: Oh, and also he has a podcast that Nat introduced me to, and in that podcast, and also I think he makes a point out of it also in his YouTube documentary, he talks a lot about how he feels like J Balvin is this like presence? What would you kind of phrase that Nat? Like a...? Natalia: Like a...it’s a character. Maria: Yeah, that he uses and it's not NOT him. But in the end, the person – like, HIMSELF – is José. Natalia: And that it’s not the same. Yeah, he kind of explained that like him José is not the same person that everyone sees perform live, that everyone sees in his music videos, or singing a song. That's J Balvin. That's a different person. And yeah, they might have both originated at the same place, but now they're very different people. Also, what was really interesting about the podcast is he talked a lot about mental health, which is not talked about in Latino communities. Maria: No. Natalia: It is not talked about. Maria: It is a very taboo topic. Natalia: And him with his really big platform talking about that. It's really interesting for like...I don't know, I personally really liked someone of the Latino community to really put that forward and talk about that. Maria: Yeah, I totally agree. Also, we can't talk about J Balvin without talking about fashion, because he is a fashion icon. Natalia: Yes. So he actually had a like, what was it? Like a collab with Guess? Maria: Yeah. Natalia: And I remember going into an Urban Outfitters with my friend and she was like, “Oh, this shirt is really cool.” And then I would look at it and I was like, “Oh, this is part of J Balvin’s collection!” And she's like, “What?” Because she didn't know who J Balvin was. But, it's just like, really cool to see him be able to influence and really have the global presence also in fashion. Like he's just a global person. Maria: Yeah. Like there's this video of him going to the Dior men's fashion show. He also goes to a lot of fashion week's and like, just seeing the outfits that he pulls are amazing. Something that I really commend him for all the time is that he uses everything. Like everything as an accessory. He uses his hair as an accessory. First of all… Natalia: He bleaches that. Maria: Yeah. Natalia: He bleaches that. Maria: He constantly bleaches his hair and I am concerned for his scalp. Like, that man. His album Colores is all about colors and so he has dyed his hair for every performance of each color, the color for the song. And, bro, how's your hair holding up? Like, for real. I gotta know. What does his hair stylist think? I am concerned. Natalia: I feel like it’s not even his hairstylist, it should just be like a doctor. Or like a dermatologist who's just like, “So, your scalp…” Maria: Also, I think what makes him such a standout guy in fashion for me is just how he uses color. And even if you check out the Jordans he came out with as a collab with Nike, they're so colorful. They're just explosive with color. And he dyed his hair to match the Jordans! I mean... Natalia: I think also...it’s almost childish, like, how much color he uses. Maria: Yeah. Natalia: But it's not at the same time. It just works really well. Maria: Yeah, and like his creative choices I honestly admire a lot. Natalia: Also, his style is kind of..it’s more like an urban...not even urban, but like...I don't know how to describe it. Like a very reggaetonero...old, Latino reggaeton style. That's like what his style is. He didn't lose that after rising to fame. He kind of held on to that. And that's what makes it so unique. Maria: But also, definitely has improved. Have you seen him in “Ginza”? And like everything else, like from before… Natalia: Yeah, he’s also evolved. Maria: He’s evolved. But yes. Natalia: He’s evolved to our global king. Maria: Yes. I mean, at least he didn’t wear the aluminum foil outfit Bad Bunny wore at the Super Bowl… Natalia: Do not come for Bad Bunny like that. Do not. Do not. I have no words. So yes, that was our take on the global phenomenon that is J Balvin. Maria: Yes. Natalia: Also, side note, we just want to give a big shoutout to our editors, Prabhav and Sofia. Maria: They are really great. They have also let us do this podcast, so… Natalia: Shoutout to them! Maria: Yes. Natalia: Also, shoutout to everyone who's listened and the hundreds of streams we've gotten on all our podcasts. Maria: Yes, thank you to everyone who’s listened to it. We appreciate you so much. Natalia: Thank you. Maria: Yes. And so with that… Natalia: This has been Natalia Camino. Maria: And Maria Caamaño. Natalia: For NBN. Maria: Audio. [“Reggaeton,” by J Balvin] This podcast is powered by Pinecast.

  I sat down with CEO Maria Luna from BRAVO Tip or Pay soon to be BRAVO Pay. We finally reconnected after meeting each other in 2016 when she was very kind and supported a venture I was working on here in Phoenix, AZ. The BRAVO app falls in the payment technologies category and is available as both an iPhone and Android app. Initially, the app was created for hard working people and creatives to get tipped for their services and it has now grown into a payment powerhouse. The new version adds so many more features including social media, social connection, fan pages, store fronts and has literally morphed into an all-inclusive app for anyone who works for themselves or has the ability to make money on their directly with their clients and followers. Unlike the competitors who share your information inside their apps like your name, email, phone # and have deep marketing pockets and charge large fees, BRAVO stands out as caring for all who work hard and deliver great service without giving up your identity and taking money out of your pockets with unfair fees. Maria is so sincere and you can tell that her goal is uplifting everyone and that sole purpose is more important to her than making a single dime. I hope you enjoy our conversation and more importantly, I hope you download the BRAVO app and start using it for all your payments, tipping and social interactions when it comes to promoting your goods and services. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OIY2hkhIiZs Maria Luna: BRAVO Pay: https://trybravo.com/ Connect with Maria: LinkedIn Personal: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mlunaceobravopay/ LinkedIn Business: https://www.linkedin.com/company/trybravopay/ YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCqzMQ63Znk4H4wKwO496F9A Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/bravopay Instagram: https://www.instagrm.com/bravo_pay Twitter: https://twitter.com/Bravo ********** Podcast Music By: Andy Galore, Album: "Out and About", Song: "Chicken & Scotch" 2014 Andy's Links: http://andygalore.com/ https://www.facebook.com/andygalorebass ********** If you enjoy the podcast, would you please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcasts/iTunes? It takes less than 60 seconds, and it really makes a difference in helping to convince hard-to-get guests. For show notes and past guests, please visit: https://joecostelloglobal.com/#thejoecostelloshow Subscribe, Rate & Review:I would love if you could subscribe to the podcast and leave an honest rating & review. This will encourage other people to listen and allow us to grow as a community. The bigger we get as a community, the bigger the impact we can have on the world. Sign up for Joe's email newsletter at: https://joecostelloglobal.com/#signup For transcripts of episodes, go to: https://joecostelloglobal.com/#thejoecostelloshow Follow Joe: Twitter: https://twitter.com/jcostelloglobal Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jcostelloglobal/ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/jcostelloglobal/ YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCUZsrJsf8-1dS6ddAa9Sr1Q?view_as=subscriber Transcript Maria Luna: Joe: Hey, everybody, welcome. I'm excited for my guest today. I have Maria Luna from Bravo. She is going to explain the app and everything about it. Maria and I met, I think, back in twenty sixteen, and I haven't talked to her in quite some time, but they have definitely done a ton of stuff since then. And we're going to get into all that. I'm not going to spoil it. But Maria, welcome and thank you so much for being here. Maria: Thank you. The pleasure is all mine. Joe: There's plenty of interviews with your history and all of your growing up stories about your mother, how she made money and how this is so dear to your heart. The concept of what you built and then your own education, a bachelor's degree, masters degree. So there's plenty of places people can see all that. I really. For me. I love the app so much. And you were so gracious to be a part of my life in 2016. We had opened up a small performance school. And I really want to use this time mostly to get the word out about Bravo and allow you to explain where you've come from and where it's going. I know that there's a new iteration of it since 2016. I didn't even notice in 2016 or actually I didn't even know if this had happened since then. But we're going to talk about Shark Tank, which is cool. I don't know how much you can talk about it, but so you can just say, I can't talk about that. But I just I have some questions about all of that. But again, let's let's start with just the basic concept of what the app does and then we'll get into I know all these other questions will come up. Maria: Awesome, we'll thank you for the opportunity. So with an honor and a pleasure, whenever I invited to speak about our company, it's it's really a team effort. Unfortunately, I'm the majority of the cases on the face of the company, but there's so many amazing people in the team. I want to recognize their work and I'll be happy to answer anything about Bravo and our history and where we're going. More than anything. Joe: Great. Well, again, I think the best place to start is I think there's everyone's going to have some initial confusion when they hear about the app and they then go. But what about and I'm not going to mention any of the other apps that are on that same sort of platform or potentially do somewhat of the same thing, because I know there's a very distinct difference with Bravo. So I need you to explain what Bravo brings to the table where it's different than the the other apps air quotes Maria: Well. Joe: That are happening or what other people might use. Maria: Ok. More than happy. So starting with our journey and our purpose. When we started Bravo, the main purpose is to financially empower anybody that depends on cash payments, tips or content creators and freelancers to make a living. And you say, well, there's many ways of doing that. Yes. But what we bring different to the table. Number one, with Bravo, you your data is not the product. So we do not monetize on our users data. And that has massive implications in your security and the security of your data. And the money. So starting with that, we are super different based on how private, how protective and secure we are for our users. But beyond that, and the purpose to financially empower that takes me to the next version of Bravo. We create first a minimum viable product. And then a beta where we wanted to prove, OK. There is this perfect way. We're two perfect strangers can meet each other, page other and not exchange a single point of data. And that was to take Bravo to the market and prove that there was a need for a super private way for two strangers to connect each other and continue with their lives while taking bravo to the market. And we have listened unlocked to our users and we started to see a lot of verticals popping up beyond the typical tipping situation where you're tipping your valet or anybody that gives you great service. And then we started to see a lot of increase use age in musicians. Broadcasters can benefit from brow. We're seeing some very important podcasts and podcasters using Bravo. Maria: Any type of freelancers, photographers, yoga instructors, trainers. And then we listen to their pain points. And what are those pain points? OK. Whenever they go and put their content out to monetize, to to make a living. All of the platforms out there start either taking a lot from certain income. So they're costly to use their platforms and they start having tiers that make it super complicated. So, for example, if I have ten thousand users, I have access to these tools. But if I don't, I, I do not make the money or I depend on ads. And then they start hiding your content so that you have to pay to be visible and will listen to all of those pain points. And then we did focus groups. We tested things. We went back to them and we made sure that all of the tools to monetize combining that social aspect of it. Let me bring your my content out and let me be financially empowered by my fans or my supporters are in one platform and in a fair price, not hiding anybody's content. So you work hard for your followers or your supporters. I'm not going to hide your content. I'm going to provide those tools and democratize the tools. Why do you need to wait until your super big to have access to to the tools? And that's what we're bringing to the market in our next item nation, which is a perfect combination of sharing who you are monetizing directly from your fan base and providing a store item where you can sell pretty much anything. Joe: Yeah, that's really cool. And along with this new version, is that part of the name change that I saw or did that happen a while ago? Maria: Well, as a company, we because we went very focus on one side of the market. One one niche inside the market, which was tipping. Joe: Mm hmm. Maria: We first position bravo there because we knew that there is a pawn. Right. Tipping was the tip of the iceberg. So we knew that the first thing we could solve right away was that interaction of two strangers. But the vision is way bigger. And it was to eventually become this platform that around the world, anybody can be financially empowered directly from somebody that wants to either pay them for one time. And now we're adding recurring revenue. And we're also opening tools so that you can have your own store inside Bravo, if you will, to to sell anything like experiences. One use case would be I'm a musician and I'm going to say on this concert, I am going to open 10 spaces for people to buy a backstage experience and they can go and buy it on Bravo presented and have their picture taken with their favorite artist. Things like that. So the sky's the limit. Your imagination is the limit. Joe: Right. So is it now called Bravo Pay? Is that official, the Maria: We Joe: Official? Maria: Are evolving now. The Joe: Ok. Maria: Name to the final purpose, which is way bigger than just sending Joe: Tipping. Maria: One time gratuity. So we're evolving the name to Bravo pay. Joe: Awesome. OK, so can I give you some scenarios so that I again, I want this to be I think the marketplace in the sort of pay apps is a little clouded. Or people get used to something and it's a habit forming type thing and they don't they don't want to change and they might not understand that they might be paying fees that they don't need to pay or they're sharing information that they don't need. That's probably the most important thing that Bravo brings to the table unless I've missed something. But that's the thing that I keep hearing, is that it's an anonymous exchange of money, in a sense. Maria: On this version, on our next restoration, on top of that, which is great for your safety and security, what we're adding is that intersection of of social finance of you happen, that direct support from your customer and and your fan base and expanding the tools, democratizing the tools that in any other platform are costly or dependent ads, or they hide your content so that you have to then pay more. Joe: Great. So, again, for clarity, I want to. I want to say that before the new version comes out, though, the huge part of Bravo was not having to exchange any personal information in order for someone to pay you or for you to get paid. Is that correct? Maria: Correct. The security Joe: Ok. Maria: Of being a total. Joe: Right. And so now the new version is you're stacking on the social layer that has been missing because it's just basically was a tipping paying app. But now you're adding in. If you have Bravo, you have all you're capturing all the social tribe that follows you. You're allowed to interact with them. So you're adding other layers that could be more helpful to everybody, but definitely artistic types and creatives for sure. Maria: Correct. And let let me paint the picture for different use cases. Let's Joe: Ok. Maria: Say I'm a yoga instructor and I am on the app and now my my students can not only premium Bravo, but then I can offer it experiences to them through the app that I can sell in my store. So I create a store item for everything that I am going to offer. And like a super private class or an advanced class or anything that I want to offer, I can do it inside the app. I can also grow my my user base or my followers by sharing what I do on the app so I can then also put videos and pictures and content that can be featured on the app and can be also shared to anyone that it's on the app. So we're doing that intersection of social content and payments. Joe: Wow. So it's not just social connection and payments. It's actually you're allowing content. And are you allowing. Are you saying you're allowing even like a store front situation? Maria: Yes, you can create a store on the only thing it's like because of the different regulations of the different platforms, the store items have to be for something physical or something that is not an app purchase. So I can buy things like I like I mentioned the experience of a backstage meeting or I can buy a special class, something that it's not digital. I can buy it on the app, merch, a t shirt, anything that I want to create on a store item for. Joe: That's great. That's really. So it's really come like much different than what I knew. Maria: Oh, yes. The division, it's big and again, because the purpose is to financially empower everyone on all of these tools are offered in a very democratized way. If you use the recurring tools or the additional tools to monetize, Brummell will keep a five percent, but you keep a ninety five percent of the income. And for the gratuity payments, you keep a hundred percent of. Joe: Right, sorry, member. The the actual formula is it's a two percent fee going to the person that's actually making the payment. Right. So it's a Maria: Which which is another differentiator, because Joe: Right. Maria: Let's say if you're going to make a payment with other platforms, you in order for that transaction to be free, and then when I say, quote unquote, free, it's because you are the product most of the time. But let's say if you're going to pay with those platforms, you can only pay with a debit card or retrieving the money directly from your bank account. Bravo allows credit card payments at a two percent fee, which is Joe: Yeah. Unheard of. Maria: Unheard of in the market. Well, yes. Joe: Yeah, it doesn't happen. And it's funny because the listeners and eventually I take this and I put it on my You Tube channel because some people just don't. I don't want the content to be lost for people who don't listen to podcast. But you and I are both in Arizona. And I first saw Bravo when I would pull up to various restaurants and the valet would have a sign and I would look at it and would say, bravo, you know, tipping and whatever the sign said or used to say or still says, I'm not sure. But again, for the users, I want them to understand that what has to happen is both parties have to have the app on their phone, which is a free app. It's downloadable on either Android or iPhone. Right. And the initial way that the payment occurs is by the Jeep finding that person via G.P.S.. Maria: There's Joe: Right. Maria: Two ways if I am near you. I can you find you by proximity because of the G.P.S. capabilities. But we also have a search tab that I can find you by your username. And that's another way we protect your privacy, because my name is Murray. I will not. But on the app, if bananas is not taken, I can be bananas. So that gives another layer of security. Obviously we're in the payments industry in the back end. We need to know who you are because there are laws and regulations. Joe: Mm hmm. Maria: We need to know our customers there so KYC know your customer regulations. So in the back end, we know who you are, but the person that it's paying you doesn't need to know, you know, your real information if you don't want to. Joe: Right. Maria: Your handle is customizable. Joe: Sure. And I think that, again, money. I don't want to say this in the wrong way. Money is great. But money. Physical money is really dirty. Like Maria: It's Joe: The handle. Maria: 30 Joe: It's nasty. Maria: Now, the call, the make makes us realize they're doing more. Joe: Right. So this is a very cool thing because the timing of it where I now have a fairly sizable booking agency in Arizona. And then we expanded into Colorado last summer. So now we're in two states and we have over 500 forms of entertainment on our roster, everything from literally a instrumental guitarist to synchronize swimmers in a pool all the way up to A-list entertainment. And so for us and our entertainers were in that time right now where they are very you know, they all need to go back to work because that's how they make their living. Most of ours are full time entertainers, but they don't want people coming up to them to necessarily request songs because they get right on top of you there, or sometimes they'll even come up. I've seen people come up and they're right in your ear while you're playing a song you're trying to set. It's just ridiculous. Maria: Yeah. Joe: But on top of it, having people come close to put in a tip and put that money in a tip jar, and then you have to handle all that money later on at the end of the night. So this is a huge way to get rid of that whole they don't have to get out of their seat, that you don't have to handle dirty money. And it's just another great reason why, you know, not only the entertainers should all have the app, but consumers should start to look to put it on their phone and they're going to see more more opportunities pop up where they don't have to go, pat their pockets and go, oh, I don't have any cash. It's just right. It's all done. Maria: Correct. Joe: Yeah. Maria: And that is the general purpose. We want everybody to work hard for their money. That has something to bring to the world. Either service or your art, your talent to be to have a decent way of living. So we want to facilitate that interaction where I can. I see. I love what you do and I just tip you or pay you. But now, on top of a one time gratuity, we're adding the ability for me to subscribe to you as a fan and then on a monthly basis support what you do. So do us a podcast or I can subscribe on a monthly basis, you know, support what you do. But I also we're offering and bringing to the table partnerships like right now. We partnered with so many virtual concerts. There's a group, Facebook, that does a blues night every single night, and they're accepting the tips via Bravo. And a lot of people tell me, you know. What is next? So what is next is all of these tools that we are providing to put even more money on the hands of the creators, the artists and the service workers. And then we are going to be rolling out a marketing campaign state by state, to bring the word out in a disciplined way. I'm very proud to say that we we took problem from a bootstrap organic movement to now a movement that is going not only in the USA, but we're going to expanding to Europe, we're going to expanding to Latin America eventually. So Canada will say so. Yeah, you're going to hear more about us. Joe: Yeah, and I want the listeners to know that I knew you when. Because it's true. It's and and the fact that you and your husband, Hector, the both of you are real people like you've come from understanding that this is a situation where you're you're you're making money at something. But more of it is that you're helping people like it's a very sincere movement. This is not a gouging situation. Maria: Well, I would say it's a team effort, like the idea was conceived in a trip that hit there I was we were we wanted to tip our tour guide. We couldn't we didn't have cash. And that's where the idea was born. It took me back to the days of my mother living Joe: Yeah. Maria: On tips and all of that. And then we wanted to create an easy way for people to connect and pay. And then the vision was eventually this could help not only in the ticketing situations, but people that depend on other people to pay at a distance or take a bigger level. But we wanted to go very disciplined. It was the two of us at the very beginning. Joe: Mm hmm. Maria: I mean, Elmer joined us. Hector is a self-taught coder, although he's a physician. So he did the initial wire frames. Then Elmer joined us as a chief technology officer. And now we have six engineers of of world class quality. Joe: Wow. Maria: We have a team. We have Adam that then joined us in the marketing side and sales side. Travis Kohlberg, that it's he is super young, but probably one of the most creative social content creators in the world that he's working with big names. I can I don't dare to say it because, I mean, I don't know how private these projects are, but as big as it gets and we're so fortunate that he is part of the team as well. So super talented, passionate people. And we started with twenty five users by invitation. I think I knew you a little bit after that. Joe: Sure. Maria: And we have been told everything. We have been told that brand is going to crush you. They have, you know, millions and millions and billions of dollars. And unlike we're driven by a purpose, we're not here to take anybody out of market. We are creating our own opportunities. And the more the merrier, the more tools that people have to make money. And let's all competing. In fairness, I'm not afraid of big money or big pockets because we are driven by that purpose. We created a grass roots with twenty five users now. Now we're over two hundred and fifty thousand people all over USA and growing. And that is because of a true excited people talking to their customers and their fan base. Joe: Yeah, that's great. I'm really happy for you. I want to. Can we talk about the subscription piece of it just Maria: Because. Joe: So that I so that I understand? I want to make sure that the users, both the person getting the money and the person paying, understand that the app is free and they just put in whatever their information and then they can create, like you say, create their handle, which basically makes them somewhat anonymous or hidden. But then you offer a subscription based. Maria: And that it's coming. It's not available to Joe: Ok. Maria: Everyone yet. However, Joe: Ok. Maria: All of our brand ambassadors are testing it and very soon we're going to open it for a number of thousands of people. General public that that one, too, tested. We're going to open it for testing before releasing it to the whole wide world. And then it's a beautiful thing. Now we're allowing people to first check us out. So you don't even need to create an account to see. And that's we are changing also our tag name to explore, pay, earn, because that describes better what you can do on the app. Joe: Mm hmm. Maria: So you can explore different profiles. So you create your profile. I'm going to be able to see your profile even before I decide, OK, I'm going to actually sign up to sign up. You provide very little information, your name, your last name, your email. You enter and you can even enter with your credentials with Facebook twitch, many Apple. We're allowing people just boom. I entered with my own credentials and then you can explore the content, whatever you are offering on the app. Your videos, your pictures, all of that, it's free. I don't need to pay for all that to the content creators. What we allow them to do is create a subscription model. So let's say your diehard fans or customers can then subscribe to support you and you can offer them physical experiences or things or merch or anything that it's not an in app purchase. You can offer them on the app by creating sport items. So more to come. We are going to start releasing little by little. We already started a teaser campaign of what's coming on Joe: Mm hmm. Maria: Social media Bravo page. But we're going to very soon open it for people to test themselves. Joe: Yeah, that's great. So one of the things that I saw was Richard Sherman. Is he a spokesperson for Bravo? Maria: I am so fortunate, again, that we started with so many passionate users, but then they brought Richard Sherman is one of the kindest, nicest human beings ever. And he he shared with me that even though he's very conscientious of the importance of of empowering, financially empowering people, he dedicates time to educate his fellow friends on players, on the importance of finance and good education on your own finances. So he loved the idea and he joined us. He's part of our advisory team to better understand that world of athletes, because that's another thing. You create content. You can be a problem. Not only you have to be on service. I'm an athlete. Think about all of the athletes right now sitting at home waiting to be called to work. And now they can have this opportunity that on the app they share who they are, they share the routines, they can share everything, and then they can have that special connection with their fans. Something else we're adding on. It's the ability to chat with your favorite person, but it's at will. So let's say you can say to my customers, I'm going to chat with them Fridays at 1:00 p.m. and then you can turn it off as well. Joe: Yeah, that's great. And I just before we get away from Richard Sherman, I want to make sure that the listeners, because not everyone's going to know him if they don't watch football. But he's a he's an amazing NFL football player. Maria: With the San Francisco 49ers. Joe: That's it. All right. Maria: Yes, yes, he's a cornerback for Joe: Yeah. Maria: The San Francisco 49ers. Joe: To Maria: And Joe: Try. Maria: But again, beyond the big figure that he is inside of the NFL. He is a way bigger human being. He has his own charity. He's he's an amazing person. Joe: That's great. It's great to hear I was really when I saw that, I was like, wow, this is man, Murray is blowing it up and I just. It's crazy. Maria: Really, it's the whole the whole team and the passion behind it. Joe: Yeah, it's really, really exciting. I'm glad. Oh, so when is the new version? I think you said you're starting to kind of send it out here and there to different Maria: Well, Joe: People. Maria: Right now, all of our brand ambassadors have it in their hands. So they're they're testing it for us. And we gathered all of their feedback to make it even stronger on the next phase. Very soon we're going to release it to their fan base. So they're going to be able to provide a code to their fan base to test it. And we are going to also do a campaign so people can request to test it before we release it to the general public. Joe: And is there a release date? Maria: We're not going to announce it yet because Joe: Ok. Maria: There's many factors, and once you are in technology, you know that there are many factors around the launch. And we wanted to make it again, like everything we have done in a lack of grassroots. So we want to bring both our ambassadors, the ambassadors, Zoom, bowling their fan base. We're going to open it to people that are curious when tested and we want to use their voices. So if I talk to you, I can talk for many hours. But if a friend of yours or somebody you admire tells you this is a secure, perfect way for us to have this connection, then it's a more personalized thing. Joe: So you've mentioned a couple of times about a brand ambassador. Can you explain to me what that is and how someone would find out about it and how to become one? Maria: Well, we call them Jubran Ambassadors, but they're so gracious. They're just people that that love our kirp really much Joe: So Maria: Up. Joe: I can be a brand ambassador. Maria: Yes. You're hired. No. Yes. It's people that are passionate enough to join our movement and we call them Bravo family. And they just they just tested with their with their fan base because ultimately it's a tool to be empowered financially, directly by their supporters in the future as we grow. We will open opportunities for. To be paid to be a brand ambassador. But so far, it's a very grassroots. We have famous people like Madonna's guitarist. This woman want to give money Joe: Yes. Maria: Is one Joe: I saw Monty Maria: Rapper. Joe: And on the Shark Tank episode. Maria: Yes. Joe: Yeah. Maria: And he's still he's like a like a brother. I love him so much. I would have a richer. We have Mike Studd, which is a platinum recording artist, and he also has a podcast called Y and Kay. We have John Kilmer's that does a podcast with him. We have Alice Cooper, Solid Rock. We Joe: Oh, Maria: Have Joe: Awesome. Maria: Lee Jansen that it's a professional golf player. Jarrett under Meehl, which is a band that it's amazing. If you haven't heard your music, find you a band. I can't keep going on and on. There's there's many and comedian Brad Bryant Toffler, so many that I am I will be unfair if I leave somebody out. Joe: Right. Maria: But. Joe: No, I get it, I get it. Yeah. It's so funny. I know for Ruka and I know Jared Jared in the middle. Just because, you know, they're Arizona based, but. Yeah. That's awesome. I have a question that I don't want to forget to ask. How does somebody know that that person has Bravo? And I know that at one point when we know you and I met and in 2016 and we had it, there were stickers and there were signage. And so does that all of that still happen? Is that still available to someone? Maria: We can, but court called it temporarily changed the scene. And Joe: Ok. Maria: I'm very proud to say that the spy, that many restaurants have been affected and we have been partnering with some like Helio Raisin. It's a local restaurant that we partnered with two to help as much as we can. But all of that market dried up very soon. And then we started then to see a lot of growth in the virtual world, like like the blues artist that I mentioned and the musicians and whatnot. So we have been growing despite all of this tragedy. And my heart goes out to everybody that it's suffering from from this cold it. But the main point to be said is that that changed the arena. So now the physical interaction doesn't happen as much, though, paid by proximity. So most of the things are virtual. And the way people let them know was talking about it, like you can find no. Awful. Joe: Ok. Yeah. So if a performer let's so I already have people back at work at a local resort here called the Phoenician. So it would be a matter of them getting into the habit of saying, Maria: You Joe: Hey, Maria: Can remember Joe: You know, Maria: The. Joe: Yeah, just if you like what you hear, please hit me up on Bravo. Just something simple like that. Yeah, Maria: Now Joe: Well, that's Maria: It Joe: Great. Maria: Is, but I guess I can mention it is a movement. And normally the person that it's the receiving side has the power to to to bring the message to the people. They. Joe: Yeah, yeah, and it's funny because you mentioned the virtual stuff. And obviously I have a lot of entertainers locally in town that I know that I see up on any of the various platforms doing their live sessions with the hope of making any amount of tips whatsoever to just keep their head above water. So it more than ever, it's important to a have an app like Bravo to be able to receive those tips. And the fact that you're not gouging them with these huge fees. And so everything that a fan or a customer pays, they have it all goes to them. And it's just it's a great thing. So I just I can't stress it enough because I just think that you're in a different realm and I know that you're sincere and it's very much comes from the heart, which is in the business world. That's a hard mixture of having a heart and still wanting to be successful. Maria: I Joe: But. Maria: Don't know what they have to fight, like Joe: I. Maria: Henry Ford said once, a business that only makes money, it's a poor business. And I totally live by that. Joe: Yeah. Maria: You can. I have to be responsible with my stakeholders. And obviously, we're adding now more ways to monetize forever. The receiving side gets the one time gratuities for free and then the recurring revenue because we need to provide other tools. They keep running five percent. But beyond making money, why not be that responsible partner in society where everybody is uplifted with you? That that's Joe: Yeah, Maria: What actually. Joe: Yeah. And you are that person, so thank you for that. I appreciate it for sure. OK, so Maria: But Joe: Now. Maria: Now you're hired as an ambassador Joe: Ok. Maria: To Joe: All right. I'm holding Maria: The. Joe: You to it. All right. So I want to talk about Shark Tank because Maria: Of course. Joe: I didn't know it totally caught me by surprise. And I'm a huge shark tank fan. I follow all of them on social media. I comment all the time on a lot of stuff, on Laurie Laurie stuff and on Damon's stuff. They seem to really be up there a lot. Those are the two that I and you know, the likes. I mean, I don't know if it's them in the background doing it, but it seems sincere, like they they seem like they might be the ones answering the comments or are liking them or not. But who knows. But I have the date of November 5th. Twenty seventeen. Is that correct? Maria: That's correct. Joe: Ok. And I understand the way it happened was you had won a tech award at some other. Maria: Right through San Francisco, Joe: What was it again? Maria: Techcrunch Disrupt in San Francisco, the audience speak. Bravo was their favorite startup. Joe: Yeah. And so from there, my understanding was one of the producers from Shark Tank saw that, heard heard about it, whatever, and invited you on. Maria: Yes, they invited us to to to start the process. But after that, you just like anybody else, so you don't have any special privilege. You still have to submit your versions and everything. And then you go through a very lengthy process all the way until they select the final people presenting. And we were in that group. It was a great experience. And they're they're good people. They're fun. They're they're they're good human beings. Joe: So when you say a lengthy process, what what is that? Maria: I mean, I cannot share because I would I have a confidentiality Joe: Yep, Maria: Agreement, I can there's things that I can not share. Joe: Yep. Maria: But let me. It is not that you just submitted one audition and you're in. That's as much as I can say there. It's a process. Joe: Sure. Maria: It's an Joe: Ok. Maria: Ongoing process where they filter different. The offers are are real. All the conversations are real. And like in any business situation after the show, then there's the conversation continues. Joe: Yes. Maria: And then some companies move on with the offers and some companies are not necessarily depending on on additional discussions. Joe: Mm hmm. Maria: But I have to say they were very fair throughout the process. Everybody makes their own decisions based on what is best for the future. Joe: So Laurie said, and I quote. You were Maria: Lori. Joe: Here. You were one of the most impressive people she has ever seen on the carpet. Maria: She was very generous to say that. And I have to say this about her. I always say that whenever you say something good about a person or bad. Unfortunately. But I tend not to say or try not to say anything bad about anybody. But whenever somebody says something good is because they see that doubting themselves. And Laurita is a good person. So she is all about women empowerment. And I think she was super kind and generous of saying that. And I thank her for that. Joe: How nervous were you? Maria: I have to say the truth at the moment that you're pitching, there's this all adrenaline that it's in you that you're going to an automatic mode. And I'm the kind of person that I don't take no for an answer easily at least. Oh, I went there to bring it before that. I was extremely nervous, like any other human being, because there's many things. I mean, obviously, I saw other chapters where they pretty much crush the Joe: Right. Maria: Spinners. But my team and this is we're having a great team behind you. It's so important. Heck, they're out on Karoline, everybody. My team kept me focused on one thing. The people that do poorly on the show, it's because they don't know their business for a reason or they don't prepare well. But we built this from the ground up. I deal with the finances when the accounting, everything. So from day one. So I knew the numbers. I knew my stuff. And I knew my purpose and the purpose of everybody in the team. So that that took care of of the, you know, having the confidence. I mean, in life, what what can happen is not going to kill you. It's going to make you stronger if it goes by. Joe: It's a. Maria: Fortunately, when. Well, and it opened great doors for us. Joe: I have to tell you, I could be an amazing entrepreneur. I think if I only had the financial side of things together and I think that's probably my biggest downfall. And I'm trying. It's just so hard for me. But the fact that, like everyone that goes on Shark Tank, you go in with. We want this amount of money for this percentage of the company or whatever type of deal. But Muzi, it's that, right? It's we want X for X and you after the end. So the first thing happened is Barbara sort of interrupted you as you were about to explain some stuff and just said, I'm out. Whatever she said it was. And then Kevin thought the space was complicated. So he was out. Alex very cordial. He was just like, if it's not on the back of a napkin, I can't understand that. But me, the back of an envelope, I forget. Maria: Oh, my God. Do you remember it better than I Joe: Yeah, Maria: Do? Joe: Well, I just I had to watch it because I wanted to make sure that I really understood what happened. And then I could see Lori and Mark whispering and ultimately they made you the offer. But the thing that impressed me the most was you were so calm. And when they gave you the offer, it wasn't even like you turned to Hector and did one of those Pylos that everyone doesn't share. You were like you knew the numbers so well that you knew what you could give up and what you couldn't give up. And you counter offered, like, so quickly and so precisely. Damn, I want to know how to do that. Maria: Well, I think it's, um, it's a combination of you have other people that that were with us, friends and family that believed in us and invested also in the company. So you have to have them also in mind and have a bare minimum that will bring value to the people that believed in your first. Right. So that that was part of it. And. And having a, you know, a plan for what was acceptable and what wasn't. Joe: Yeah, it was amazing. I was just like, wow, I would have crumbled when when Barbara first Centera, I would have been like, oh, it threw me off and I would have just been all over the place. But you were just right right there. I say, go, go, Maria. It's like. Maria: They're very gracious. It's just like, oh, well, obviously it's a show, so they baby to make it super endearing, like there were places where I saw policies and I'm like, they make it, you know, super exciting. And that's that's why they're successful. They're they're very good at anything. Joe: Yeah, it was great. OK. So let me recap. So what is the Web site for the app Maria: Look, Joe: At? Maria: You can go to try. Bravo dot com right now, because we started this campaign, you're going to see a video. Is an upgraded experience coming soon? But I tried Bravo dot com. If they want to contact us, they can write to support. I try like when you try something new. I try bravo dot com support. I tried Robillard. Com and and contact us. And also we're very responsive on Instagram. Well you can find us. That's Bromwell underscore pay. And Facebook and Twitter. Joe: Yeah, and I'll. Maria: We're on TCW. Joe: Perfect. So and I'll go and put all the links in the show notes so that it'll be easily accessible by everyone. So again, to make it super, super clear for everyone so they don't go and go. What about. I hate to use this to use that word again. The selling point for Bravo is that it's a very safe, secure, practically or basically anonymous way to pay and accept money from from anyone. So. Maria: Yes. And then in all of those payment applications, which Bravo, that's a small part of Bravo were more than just payments. But those payment applications are are designed for friends and family to pay each other because you need to trust the person. If if I don't trust you, I better not receive the money because once I pay or I it's it's a done deal. And then. But with Bravo, more robust way to pay a stranger, for starters. But then the next version of Bravo, which is super robust, where you can share who you are. Share your content directly. Contact your fan base or your fan base. Contact you and then offer exclusive experiences or merch on the same. Joe: It's really exciting. I am, Maria: The majority of the money, it's a recurring Joe: Yes. Maria: And keep a hundred percent if it's a one time thing. Joe: That's a big, big plus. So I'm really excited for you and Hector and the whole team. I feel like we're family because we go back so far. And I felt like it was the beginning. Even though I know you start I think it was 2014 was the inception of. Maria: Well, we've we formed the company in 2014, but our minimum viable product. We brought it to the market in 2015. Joe: So a year later, I met you. So and here we are, 20, 20. And you guys are just crushing it. And I'm really happy for you. Maria: Thank you. Thank Joe: So Maria: You. Joe: I'll put in all the links in the show notes. And this way everyone can find you and reach out and I'll make sure this gets on all the various platforms that I push this out to. I'm almost at 5000 friends on my Facebook. Me musician page. So they will see this and hopefully we can convert them over and have them start using Bravo. And keep. Maria: Let them join Joe: Yeah. Maria: The movement. Joe: Let them join the movement. I love it. Well, I can't thank you enough for your time. I know you're super busy, but stay healthy. Much success to you. I'm really excited for you both. And the team. Maria: Thank you. Let's continue the conversation. I don't want to lose contact with you. Joe: I know it's been too long. Right. Maria: Yes. Yes. Joe: All right. Maria: It's really Joe: Well, Maria: A pleasure Joe: Thank Maria: To see Joe: You Maria: You. Joe: So much. Maria: All right. Take care.

Coaching the individual, and paying attention to every detail and person involved in the training process, are keys to international success, according to elite swimming coach Jon Rudd who joins hosts Kelly Palace and Maria Parker in this exclusive interview. Jon shares his thoughts on training Olympic swimmers and how the lessons from the pool translate into the rest of life.   Contact Kelly and Maria at hello@championsmojo.com. MORE ABOUT JON RUDD Jon Rudd has served as head coach for national teams from three different nations and has coached many swimmers to success at the Olympic, World, Commonwealth and European levels.  The number of British and English National Records set through Jon's coaching are in excess of 100 and set by athletes from over 35 countries around the world. Jon coached in the UK at Plymouth College, one of the world leaders in swimming. Currently he is the National Performance Director of Swimming & Diving for Ireland.  Episode Topics and Mentions Ruta Meilutyte Plymouth College David Marsh International Swim League, ISL World Swimming Coaches Association USRPT - Ultra Short Race Pace Training Cassie Patten Rudd snowflake theory New Zealand Rio Olympics Ben Proud Takeaways Kelly Skill and technique are the most important components to success; talent can only take you so far. Don’t be afraid to make mistakes -- just be sure to learn from them and not make them again.  Maria It’s clear that Jon Rudd’s success is rooted in his diligence and work ethic. You have to find what works for the individual when it comes to athletic training -- and this applies to the rest of life too.  Quote of the Week:  "It's okay to make a mistake, just don't make the same one twice."-- Jon Rudd Subscribe to the Champion's Mojo podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify and Google Play.  Have something you want to share with us? Email it to hello@championsmojo.com Keep up with the show by visiting ChampionsMojo.com and visiting the Facebook page, Instagram page, and Twitter page.  *this show was recorded before the COVID-19 pandemic*

Episode Notes Spotify playlist: https://open.spotify.com/playlist/1VR1sJMtl8e9ph14hET7EA[“Hablamos Mañana,” by Bad Bunny]Maria: So now we're going to kind of touch on his music because he came out with the new album. Nat and I literally waited until midnight to hear it, but I also think we're not the only ones. Natalia: No.Maria: Everyone did. Everyone was waiting. Also, he released an album for the first time in 16 months yet, X100PRE stays relevant. I still listen to X100PRE every day.Natalia: X100PRE came out on Nochebuena. So in Latin America, Nochebuena is the day before Christmas and that’s celebrated more than Christmas Day. Maria: Yeah, the night of the 24th of December. Natalia: So what did I do? So I was in Mexico, but I was with all my cousins. I have a lot of cousins and they're like kinda running all over the place. So I locked myself in like a room. Plug my headphones in, listen to it, walked out, and was like wow. Merry Christmas. Best Christmas present I've received. Getting back to his new album.Maria: Yeah. Let’s get back into Yo Hago Lo Que Me Da La Gana. We kind of like decided that we're gonna touch on our personal favorites and then also the songs we think are going to be the biggest hits. Natalia: So this album is completely Latino. Unlike the last album where Bad Bunny had a song with Drake, this one features collabs with only Latin artists, but from all over Latin America. With Duki from Argentina, Pablo Chill-E from Chile, Sech from Panamá, and Daddy Yankee, who is an overall reggaeton icon. He sings Gasolina, which you've probably all heard.Maria: And he was also the inspiration for Bad Bunny to become an artist.Natalia: Bad Bunny is living his dream.Maria: So we're going to kind of like alternate and talk about our favorites. Natalia: So the first song in the album is “Si Veo a Tu Mamá”, which is like at the very beginning. The beat is very catchy. But some of you might have recognized it because he sampled a song called “The Girl From Ipanema”. And so that's why it might sound very familiar and I think it's so cool that he did that. It kind of shows how he can modernize it. And then also the lyrics. When he says, “Solo comparto memes, ya no escribo nada. Y no he borra’o tu foto, solo la puse en privada.” So that translates essentially to “Now I only share memes, I don't write anything anymore. I didn't delete your photo. I only put it on private”. And I think that really speaks to our generation.Maria: Yeah. Natalia: Because... Yeah, so the song is more melancholy and kind of sad...Maria: But it's also really happy. It's the one thing I’ll point out.Natalia: Which is very ironic. And it's great. Musically, great song. Maria: Yes. Okay. One of my favorites is “La Santa”, which is Daddy Yankee and Bad Bunny’s collaboration on this album. I actually didn't think I’d like it as much, but the more I listened to the album, the more it stood out to me. I think more because lyrically I kind of really liked it. Like I saw this TikTok...Natalia: Oh no.Maria: About like this guy who was talking about how like Bad Bunny’s album is kind of like phases of a breakup.Natalia: Yes, I saw that TikTok. Maria: Yeah. And so like, I don't know. I feel like this is like one that's particularly like when you start realizing that you're catching feelings for someone but you're in denial. And I think it perfectly captures that feeling. Natalia: So, kind of going off of that. So, Bad Bunny...he kind of tells a story that's not – it's not chronological – but he tells a story throughout his album. So the next song I really like is “Pero Ya No”. And this is kind of at the end of the last phase of a relationship where it's like, I used to like you, you used to like me, but not anymore. And honestly, Bad Bunny has some really funny verses. When we were listening to this, like, the first time we listened to it fully, I laughed a few times. Maria: Oh, yeah.Natalia: This is one of the lines. He says, “A mí ya no me cachas, yo no soy un Pokémon”. (Translation: You can’t catch me anymore, I’m not a Pokemon.) And I just think that's so funny. Yeah. And it's kind of like at the end of the breakup when you finally move on, and it slowly turns more and more upbeat kind of to symbolize the moving on and freeing yourself from a relationship. Which I think is really artistic. Maria: So another one of my favorites is “Yo Perreo Sola”. Natalia: This is gonna be the hit.Maria: This is gonna be a hit.Natalia: It is a hit already. Maria: Like it's so good. I love this because this song really is like that... Natalia: This is like Beyonce’s “Single Ladies” but like in 2020.Maria: But also, this is the type of stuff Benito does where like he's a male but he's perfectly...Natalia: Supporting female empowerment.Maria: Yes.Natalia: But also, something Bad Bunny does a lot is he mentions some of his earlier songs.Maria: Yeah.Natalia: So like in this he says, “Ella está soltera antes que se pusiera de moda,” which means she was single before it was in style. This is to reference his song “Soltera” with Lunay.Maria: and Daddy Yankee. Natalia: But yes, that’s “Yo Perreo Sola”. And then just a side note, Maria and I have formed these opinions after listening to the album constantly for like, three days so our opinions will probably change by like the end of the week. Maria: Yeah.Natalia: Because that's just the type of people we are. When I first listened to this, I was like “Safaera” is definitely gonna be a hit. It's gonna be the big one. But I will say that one part in “Safaera” where he plays the jaws theme song. And I just think that's so funny. He’s so creative with his music. Maria: The thing with “Safaera” that makes “Safaera” unique is that he sampled so many songs into one song and it works. Like…Natalia: Yes.Maria: How? Natalia: So, moving on. There’s this one song we both really, really like. I think “25/8” or 25/8 has some of the best lyrics of the entire album.Maria: It really does. Natalia: My favorite one is “No e’ que sea antisocial, e’ que ustede’ dan mala vibra” (Translation: It’s not that I’m antisocial, it’s just that you guys give off a bad vibe). Which I personally relate to because when I don't like someone or like don't like a certain group of people, I will literally just shut off and not talk.Maria: Mm-hmm. Natalia: Like sometimes people think I'm quiet or shy. But no, that probably just means I don't like you. My friends know I talk a lot. Do I talk a lot?Maria: I don't think so…Natalia: Okay, well, I talk. Maria: Yes. Natalia: So like, yeah, if you see me and like I'm in a group setting with you and I don't talk, or like ignore you…Maria: Now you know!Natalia: Now you know, sorry, I just like exposed myself out there.Maria: I genuinely I love “25/8”. It's one of my favorite songs. And I like the lyric that goes, “Nunca seguidor, yo siempre he sido un líder” (Translation: Never a follower, I’ve always been a leader). Because Benito, –I told this to Nat – I genuinely don't like artists who try to flaunt like they're the best. But Benito has all my respect and he can do that.Natalia: He has the right to.Maria: He has the right to. Natalia: In this song he calls out like the hourly wage in Puerto Rico, which is $7.25, and he's like, this is not a liveable wage. And so I think this song really personifies and embodies all of Bad Bunny, like all he stands for, what he's accomplished, where he's going…. I think this is one of his best works. Maria: I agree. Like, this song is the song that to me stands out lyrically in the album. Natalia: And then we kind of already touched on “P FKN R”. This kind of ties back to “25/8”. He again calls out the government to like do something. And I think this ties also into his song “Ser Bichote” in X100PRE. So a bichote is someone in a barrio or in a neighborhood, who is a drug trafficker. But he is loved in that community because he brings money into the community and distributes it. Essentially, like a Robin Hood type of figure. And so he compares himself to that, but with music. And he does the same thing in “P FKN R”. He makes a lot of metaphors with him, music, and drugs, which I think is very impactful since Latin America is many times associated with drugs. Maria: So okay, these past few days after the album came out the only thing I hear whenever the dorm is silent is Nat going “Meow, meow, meow, meow, meow”. I don't know why meow? Natalia: I can't sing so I have to use other vocal-like…vocal-like...things. Maria: So she's imitating this part of the song where it goes “Pr pr pr pr pr”. Natalia: Which I think is really funny PR like when you make the sounds together I mean, sound and I just think that's so funny. So the next song on the album is “Hablamos Mañana”, which is so good. This is like where he starts out with, he goes and he says, “Yo hago lo que me da la gana” which is the name of the album obviously. He mentions it throughout the entire album, but this one's so good. He's like I do what I want. At the end it kind of goes into this heavy metal type of thing. So Bad Bunny is also very much influenced by pop-punk, like Blink-182. And Maria's laughing because she knows that I went – I skimmed the surface of an emo phase in middle school. Maria: You say it with such shame.Natalia: It was a dark time in my past. So this was just giving me flashbacks. Maria: Yeah, Nat loves this song. I personally...I still like it. I just don't think that it's like... I understand why he’s kind of closing off the album with the title of the album. So I get it. Natalia: It also gives me a lot of like early 2000s Latin Pop Music vibes. Maria: Yeah. Natalia: Also, Bad Bunny is so flexible in genre and voice.Maria: Yeah.Natalia: So there's a lot, before we get to the last song on the album, he has so many other songs that are not in his two albums – which you should definitely listen to. But like “Chambea” versus “Cual Es Tu Plan”.Maria: Yeah.Natalia: The sounds are completely different.Maria: He said in an interview once that he knows that his audience will literally – he could like do rock. People will listen to it. He can do reggaeton. People will listen to it. He could do whatever genre he wants.Natalia: Okay, “Cual Es Tu Plan” isn't even a genre. It sounds like elevator music with a reggaeton slow backbeat and it's so good. Maria: “Cual Es Tu Plan” is one of the best songs.Natalia: And also “Estamos Bien” is so completely different on his previous album from all the other songs he had on there.Maria: And I will go ahead and again “Otra Noche en Miami” – literally one of the saddest songs. But also such a good beat. You can jam to it. Natalia: Like “Otra Noche en Miami” and also “Estamos Bien” are very different from his usual pop reggaeton sounds, but “Estamos Bien” is actually one of my – it was on my Spotify Wrapped. That was my most listened to song in 2019. I love that song.Maria: Oh, you're bringing back the Spotify Wrapped.Natalia: I love that song. It got me through a lot of stuff. It's a great song. I love it. And now for the last song on the album.Maria: Which is “

Episode Notes Spotify playlist: https://open.spotify.com/playlist/1VR1sJMtl8e9ph14hET7EA[“¿Quien Tu Eres?,” by Bad Bunny]Natalia & Maria: Hello!Maria: Welcome to Guatever! I’m Maria Caamaño.Natalia: And I’m Natalia Camino. Maria: And today we're finally getting around to doing a podcast episode on Bad Bunny!Natalia: Unless you've been living under a rock, you are probably aware that Bad Bunny released his second album called…Natalia & Maria: Yo Hago Lo Que Me Da La Gana.Maria: Which translates to: I do what I want.Natalia: Whatever I want. Which is iconic because no one can release an album on that date for another four years because it was a leap day.Maria: Yeah, but that's like the type of stuff he does.Natalia: I love him.Maria: I love him so much!Natalia: So the release of his album was the biggest debut of 2020 so far. And as of right now, Bad Bunny is in the Top 25 Most Listened To Artists on Spotify worldwide, which is very impressive…Maria: And just proves his power.Natalia: I love him. So we're going to break up this episode into like two parts. First, we're going to talk about who he is and the impact he has had on Latin America. Maria: And the next is just talking about his album.Natalia: Obviously, we won't get through his entire album because…Maria: There are 20 songs. Natalia: So we will pick and choose some of our favorites. So to fully understand why we love Bad Bunny, you need to understand that Maria and I are roommates because of him.Maria: Literally. So, clears throat let me get started.Natalia: Storytime!Maria: So basically, when I was looking for a roommate at Northwestern, there is always a Facebook group for the incoming class. And I posted in the girls’ group looking for roommates that I was looking for one and I put like, “Oh, one of my favorite artists is Bad Bunny.” And then I got a message from someone…Natalia: I commented, “OMG! I like Bad Bunny too!”Maria: And then, literally because of this, we started DM-ing and became roommates.Natalia: We will not read that conversation. It is a very awkward conversation. It has words...Maria: It was very cringey.Natalia: It was super cringey. There are words like proposal. And we talked about chairs a lot.Maria: We did talk a lot about chairs. But that’s kind of like our energy, so it makes sense.Natalia: So we're just gonna take a quick moment and appreciate…Maria: What Bad Bunny has done for us. Benito…Natalia: Benito...Gracias.Maria: Gracias.Natalia: This is for you.Maria: This friendship is because of you. Natalia: Look at what you've created. So who is he? His full name is Benito Antonio Martinez Ocasio.Maria: He was born in Vega Baja in Puerto Rico. And he rose to fame really, or at least I remember, that he rose to fame mostly because of his song “Diles” and “Soy Peor.” Natalia: Over the past few years he's risen to fame, mostly due to the support of Puerto Rican and Dominican audiences. And he kind of touches on this on the last track on his new album, where he says…Maria: Gracia' a to' mis domi y a mi gente en Puerto Rico. Cada cosa que logro a ustede' se la' dedico. Which translates to “Thank you to my Dominicans and my people in Puerto Rico, everything I do, I dedicate to you.”Natalia: But he has shown his gratitude to the people of Puerto Rico and the Dominican Republic in various ways. So on his last album X100PRE, which was his first solo album, he has a song called “La Romana”. Which I'm … So Maria is laughing because for spring break I am going to la República Dominicana, and we are going to La Romana. Because it is a place.Maria: So La Romana is in the coast of the DR, and it’s literally known for just being a place to go to the beach…Natalia: I’m going there for spring break. And I've been practicing my Dominican accent. Utede no tan listo. ¡He estado practicando mi acento dominicano! (Translation: Y’all are not ready. I’ve been practicing my Dominican accent!)Maria: Oh my God. It's like, it's so funny to me. This is so funny to me. She's made a list of what I say in Spanish to try and imitate it. And I find it hilarious. Natalia: I'm trying my best. I'm dropping the S’s like it's nobody's business but in reality, it takes a lot of mental effort.Maria: The entire point of dropping the S’s is so that you don't have to make any effort…Natalia: Utede no tan listo para cuando yo vaya a la República Dominicana. (Translation: Y’all are not ready for when I go to the Dominican Republic.) Maria: But yes, basically … I appreciate him so much. He recently tweeted in support of Dominicans because right now there's a lot of political tension going on due to the suspension of municipal elections in DR. I won't really get into that right now. Natalia: Maria wrote an article about it.Maria: We have to acknowledge that he's very supportive. But then he's also amazing. He uses his platform so well, to advocate and like to show support for Puerto Rico.Natalia: Yeah, so in his new album there's a song called “P FKN R,” in which he kind of talks about how – it's not clear if he's talking about the U.S. government or the Puerto Rican more local government. But essentially in the song, he's like, “Hey, why do you talk all this talk and then not act on it?” The people in Puerto Rico are suffering. And so in 2018, when he went on The Tonight Show with Jimmy Fallon, he called out the Trump administration and said after one year of the hurricane, there are still people without electricity in their homes. This was after Hurricane Maria. And he said that more than 3,000 people died and Trump is still in denial. And this was a very personal issue for him because his family home – like where his parents live – was still running on three generators one year after Hurricane Maria. And so this kind of just shows how he really uses his platform.Maria: Also, on July 22 of 2019, he headed the protests against Ricardo Roselló and he advocated like for his resignation. So, he, Ricky Martin and Residente.. were the ones who took to the streets and were actually protesting with people. And he posted so much about it. And I think that because of that, he got so much attention from other people who did not know what was going on.Natalia: Bad Bunny definitely uses his album to raise awareness of issues in Puerto Rico because Puerto Rico's mostly forgotten by the American public because it's not considered a state – it’s essentially a colony. And so many times, it's forgotten and neglected by the US government. And so he raises awareness of some of the issues. Maria: And also he is an advocate for just people raising their voices and fighting for what they believe in and fighting for democracy, which I think is something that's so great about him.Natalia: Also, on his first album X100PRE, he had a song called “Solo de Mi”, which – if you listen to the first half – it's very melancholy and then picks up to be more upbeat. But the first half – also the first half of the music video for that song – is very obviously about domestic violence, which is not talked about in Latin America or even American society in general. It's not something that is talked about, and for a male Latin artist to talk about this is unheard of. It is a very taboo subject. And for him to bring it up because it does happen.Maria: Oh, for sure.Natalia: It happens everywhere. And for an artist to do this is truly powerful.Maria: Yeah. Also recently, he had his Late Night debut with Jimmy Fallon in the US and he wore a shirt that said: “They killed Alexa, not a man with a skirt.” Alexa was a transgender woman in Puerto Rico who was ridiculed and killed, and when people in the media were talking about it, they would refer to Alexa as a man in a skirt. And so his shirt says, “They killed Alexa, not a man with a skirt” to kind of say like call her by her name, first of all, and then…Natalia & Maria: He wore a skirt!Natalia: Because HE is a man in a skirt!Maria: This man. Yes because … UGH I love him so much! Also, he's the only man who can pull off Crocs. Unpopular opinion.Natalia: Not even man just ... human … who can pull off crocs.Maria: True.Natalia: Yeah. And so, after all this and him going so much against social norms and social constructs, you’d think that Bad Bunny wouldn't be a popular artist – especially in Latin America where most of his audience is Latin males.Maria: Yeah. And machismo is so prevalent in like Latin America that you would think that they wouldn't be like...Natalia: They wouldn’t support his music. But that's not the case at all. If not, he's just gained more and more popularity.Maria: And he's breaking those boundaries because personally, I've seen it myself. I have a friend who, after Bad Bunny started painting his nails, he started painting his nails. Which is something that is unheard of in the Dominican Republic. Literally unheard of for a guy to be proud of wearing nail polish. That is something that is unheard of, and I really saw … He was like “Oh, I want to paint my nails like Bad Bunny!” And I really saw firsthand his power.Natalia: Yeah, he is an influencer in both contemporary Latin music, but also in fashion and gender norms and all these things. Maria: Literally he does so much we can't really get into everything he does. I totally recommend to read an article in which he talks about sexual orientation. Y’all should read it. Yep, that's it.Natalia: So, yes. We love Bad Bunny.Maria: We love Benito.Maria: This has been Maria Caamaño and Natalia Camino for NBN Audio. [“¿Quien Tu Eres?,” by Bad Bunny]This podcast is powered by Pinecast.

Episode Notes Playlist: https://open.spotify.com/user/nataliacamc/playlist/0di7F7hQ57nt357mhvQX3L?si=3nVq-IDmRS-lzteqXBQs1g[“Let’s Get Loud,” by Jennifer Lopez]Natalia & Maria: Hello! Natalia: Welcome to Guatever! Maria: I’m Maria Caamaño from Dominican Republic. Natalia: And I’m Natalia Camino, and I was born in Mexico. Maria: Today’s episode is on the 2020 Super Bowl Halftime Show. Now, we weren’t really originally planning to do this episode…Natalia: But just based on the attention it’s gotten and how much it’s blown up, we felt like we needed to do it. So just a quick disclaimer! On this podcast, we do just talk about our opinions, and it’s okay to have different opinions from us, but what we talk about is just based on our personal experience and what we think. And then also Maria and I are taking an Introduction to Latinx Studies, so we’re kind of incorporating some of the things we learn from there into this podcast because we think they’re pretty relevant. But obviously we’re also still learning. So we...Maria: And we like totally respect that other people have different opinions. Natalia: Yeah, because we’re also literally 18 years old. We’ve been on this planet for 18 years. So we don’t know everything. Natalia: Yeah! Let’s get into today’s episode. So Maria, have you ever watched the Super Bowl before?Maria: I … OK, so I had never watched the Super Bowl. So this was the first time I had ever seen a halftime show live.Natalia: Wow. So I watch the Super Bowl every year with my dad and my two brothers. I’m not an avid sports person … just to clarify. But I do enjoy watching sports, and if one more man tries to mansplain football to me, I might punch them. Not gonna lie. One time, this guy tried mansplaining football to me and he started with, “so there’s a defense and an offense.” Maria: Oh my God.Natalia: So, getting back to the halftime show. So the Super Bowl kind of represents the epitome of America, masculinity, man...Maria: Manliness.Natalia: Manliness. That’s what it represents. And to have two Latina women perform at the halftime show. I think it kind of represents everything that’s the opposite of the Super Bowl. Maria: Yeah.Natalia: In a sense.Maria: Yeah, I get that.Natalia: It was kind of ironic. It was kind of historic that two Latina women performed. So let’s set the stage as to how we watched it. Maria: Okay.Natalia: So it was ten minutes to the halftime show. Maria: I downloaded the NFL app. We just waited for the halftime show to come on.Natalia: We were literally doing homework waiting for the halftime show to come on.Natalia: Classic NU.Maria: But the thing is I wasn’t originally planning on watching the halftime show until I found out that it was Shakira and J-Lo. Natalia: Yeah.Maria: And then when we found out that it was Bad Bunny and J Balvin as well…Natalia: We literally…Maria: Lost our shit.Natalia: Yes. Maria and I watching this halftime show, it was just us screaming a lot.Maria: It was like we were both almost near tears, I had goosebumps … It was just an experience. And I guess we didn’t really think before it happened that it was as significant as it would be.Natalia: Yeah. Like it didn’t really hit me until I was watching it. If anyone had told me five years ago that I would be watching two women who are Latina, like me, perform at the Super Bowl halftime show I would be like, “No, that’s not possible. America’s too racist for that.” That’s not gonna happen. And to see that actually happen … I’ve never seen that before. There’s barely any Latino representation whatsoever in media, in big globalized, commercialized events. And to see that was kind of powerful. Maria: Yeah, I mean, while we were watching it Nat and I kept on talking very emotionally about how important representation really is. Because you don’t really realize it until you experience it. I really wasn’t thinking that it was going to be that big of a deal, but then I saw it and I was so excited and so happy. And it brought so much joy to me to see people who like their music I’ve been listening to, not only since I was little, like Shakira and J-Lo, but also currently with Bad Bunny and J Balvin. I had so much pride in being a Latina and my community.Natalia: Yeah, I think it definitely has brought the Latino community together in a sense. Like we could all bond. We’ve ALL grown up listening to Shakira. I don’t know a single Latino person who has not grown up listening to Shakira. Like, Shakira has been a global icon. Maria: She really has been.Natalia: For arguably two decades, I grew up listening to her when I was 6. She had two World Cup songs – 2010 and 2014. Maria: Mm-hmm. Natalia: J-Lo also had a World Cup song in 2014. These women have been global icons for years.Maria: Yes.Natalia: So let’s just go through the performance really quick.Maria: Yeah.Natalia: So Shakira comes up. Absolutely kills it. Maria: Yes.Natalia: She even plays a Led Zeppelin riff on the guitar at one point.Maria: She played guitar!Maria & Natalia: She played the drums!Maria: Like, this woman. Natalia: She is 43 years old.Maria: She’s amazing, and her dancing is amazing. Like, oh my God.Natalia: And then J-Lo sings. Also kills it. Maria: Yes.Natalia: Literally, she is 50 years old. Maria: She … that woman.Natalia: I don’t know how they did it. I don’t think people are giving them sufficient credit for their dancing and how seamless, how flawless everything was choreographed, how everything just went through.Maria: No mistakes. There’s this word I’m trying to use, and I forgot what it was.Natalia: Like, Maria is a dancer.Maria & Natalia: Very high-pitched laughterNatalia: I don’t dance. I’ve tried. I wish I was gifted in dancing. But alas, I wasn’t. So, I don’t know where I was going that was just a fun fact.Maria: I think they don’t get enough credit because, first of all, they had to split their time. Natalia: Yeah.Maria: They created perfect setlists that represent them perfectly. Their outfits were amazing. They have this stage presence that was amazing.Natalia: Yes. They for sure – yes.Maria: Like, the tricks they did? J-Lo was being carried for like half of her set.Natalia: And I think also J-Lo and Shakira they both know what they represent though, and I think they used that to kind of convey what they wanted to. Maria: Yes.Natalia: Like I think it was really powerful that J-Lo brought her daughter – who is also Marc Anthony’s daughter. Like, imagine having your parents be Jennifer Lopez and Marc Anthony? I can’t.Maria: I mean, that’s why she sings so well as well. Natalia: Yeah. But anyways, J-Lo’s daughter comes up on stage and she starts singing “Born in the USA” while there’s children in cages. And I thought that was very powerful, and it was very impactful especially where we are today. Maria: Yeah.Natalia: Like, where America is today. Maria: It was a power move. Natalia: It was a power move because a few days later Donald Trump gave his State of the Union address and…Maria & Natalia: sighMaria: I don’t even understand how I can begin to explain how I felt and I’m like…Natalia: You’re not even American!Maria: I’m not even American.Natalia: Like, I’m not American either. But I just think it was really … it was a power move by J-Lo to do that and know the significance of it and still choose to do it. I think J-Lo doing that … it really showed not only America but the world the reality of being a Latino. Maria: Yeah. It was a political statement.Natalia: It was a political statement. And it showed what some Latinos have to deal with in America. And then she, while her daughter was singing “Born in the USA,” J-Lo comes out with a dual flag – one side, the Puerto Rico flag, and on the other side the American flag and that was also a political statement.Maria: Yes, because she’s trying to freaking make people understand that you can be Latino but you’re also American. It’s not like you are a threat. Natalia: Yeah. Also, J-Lo was born in the US! Maria: Literally! That’s the entire point of her set. She’s Latina, she was born in the US – you can be…Natalia: You can be both! Maria: You can be both exactly. Natalia: And she was kind of saying that people need to accept that and accept the reality of – yes, I am both American and both Latino. But also this is the reality that some Latinos have to live with and live in. Maria: Yes.Natalia: And I think also it was just powerful, and I think that’s what brought everyone together. Because her coming out in that flag was very representative. Also, because Shakira and J Balvin are both Colombian and Bad Bunny and J-Lo are both Puerto Rican. Maria: Yes.Natalia: And I think that really unified Latin America and tied it back to the United States.Maria: Yes, and I also think it was very smart that they split it so that J-Lo and J Balvin and Bad Bunny and Shakira were together because it just shows that the Caribbean Latinos and the, I guess, South America part of like Latinos, feel like they are very different when you are a Latino, but we’re also a community. Natalia: Yeah, and then also at the end Shakira comes out singing “Waka Waka,” and I think she sang it also to remind people that the world is unified.Maria: I think their message was very positive. In that, they were trying … they were political, but they were doing it in a positive way.Natalia: Yeah.Maria: They were trying to be like, “We are a global community and we should be trying to be united rather than divided.” I think that what she was trying to do with “Waka Waka” was show that yes, they are two Latinas. They are still trying to be like, “We acknowledge that there are so many other cultures and that we are multicultural, and we are embracing those other cultures.”Natalia: Yeah, and I think also J Balvin’s song “Mi Gente” really spoke to Latinos too. Because you could feel it in the stadium when he and J-Lo sang that together. Because they sang in Miami, which is kind of Latino capital of the United States.Maria: Yeah.Natalia: And you could feel the stadium vibrate when they sang that.Maria: Mm-hmm.Natalia: And they asked, “¿Donde esta mi gente?” Where are my people? And everyone just responded. It was a very impactful moment.Maria: It was very emotional.Natalia: Yes. Maria: Like when we were watching it, I think we both got very emotional. The entire performance was really just a celebration.Natalia: Yeah. That’s a good word to describe it. Yeah, for sure.Maria: But I think also we kind of wanted to address more than anything in this episode was the controversy that came with the Super Bowl halftime. How Shakira and J-Lo were portrayed in the media is totally not okay. Natalia: Yeah, like they were definitely hypersexualized. Maria: I mean my stance on it – and I’ve told Nat about this – is that there were two kind of basic arguments on the performance on whether they were sexualizing themselves and being overly sexual or whether people are just tearing them down and they’re being empowered. And I personally feel like they are being torn down by other people. Like Adam Levine in the 2019 halftime was entirely…Natalia: He was half-naked the entire time!Maria: Yeah! He was like shirtless! And, of course, white moms were like, “Hubba hubba give me more!”. Natalia: Oh God.Maria: And then Shakira and J-Lo just come out and they’re like in these … Shakira was essentially in a crop top and a skirt or shorts, which is normal. She even had a jacket at the end. And then J-Lo was just in a bodysuit and a leotard and all of these women were like – not only women, also men were just like…Natalia: Even though the cheerleaders wear – there’s less clothing on them than was on Shakira and J-Lo, but no one says anything.Maria: About that. Well like what I was going to say was that there was a proposal for a parental warning. Like...Natalia: Also, not gonna lie, it’s the Super Bowl Halftime show. What do you expect?Maria: Exactly. Also, they’re in Miami. It’s hot. Let them have less clothes.Natalia: Yes! They’re performing!Maria: Yes! Exactly! What’s such a big deal about it? And like you said – the cheerleaders. But of course, no one questions the cheerleaders because they’re for the male gaze and entertainment.Natalia: And also because they provide money for the NFL. Maria: Yes.Natalia: And is anyone gonna do anything to stop capitalism? Maria & Natalia: No.Maria: But also, J-Lo and Shakira did not get paid for their halftime show.Natalia: Oh really? Maria: I read about that. (If you want to read more, here’s the article: https://nypost.com/2020/02/04/shakira-and-jennifer-lopez-werent-paid-for-their-halftime-show/)Natalia: I did not know that.Maria: Yeah they didn’t get paid for the halftime show. So, I think like – you know what? Let them do whatever the hell they want. Natalia: Arguably, the NFL made more money off of them performing because you got all of Latin America to watch. Maria: Literally! Literally.Natalia: Plus the rest of the world who love Shakira and J-Lo. Maria: Yeah! Exactly!Natalia: Yeah, so this is kind of just like what we have taken away from the halftime show. Maria: Yeah. One of the things that also we wanted to address was that, first of all, thank you to everyone who sent us…Natalia: Thank you to everyone who comments or listened to it! We really appreciate it.Maria: Yes! And if you sent us feedback, we listened. Most of the comments that we got was that we move really fast between topics or that we don’t spend enough time on stuff, and it’s really because…Natalia: We’ve spent hours talking about this and have to get it down to 15 minutes.Maria: Yeah, we have a time limit so that’s why we can’t really divert as much as we’d like to.Natalia: Also, most of our episodes won’t actually be like this. Like, next week we’re gonna dive into an artist and kind of talk about their impact on Latin America and also kind of go through their music...Maria: Music.Natalia: And kind of discuss it because that’s what we like to do. But we just felt like we needed to talk about this and address the Super Bowl halftime show. Natalia: Also, listen to J Balvin’s podcast! Maria: Oh, yes!Natalia: It’s actually – it’s really good. It’s in Spanish so like if you don’t speak Spanish, I’m sorry. Learn Spanish.Maria: Hahahaha. Natalia: Like I don’t know what else to tell you. Google Translate the transcript?Maria: What?Natalia: I don’t know! But it’s really good! Check it out!Maria: Okay! So this was the second episode!Natalia: Tune in next time!Maria & Natalia: Or Guatever.Maria: This is Maria Caamaño.Natalia: And this is Natalia Camino.Maria: On NBN.[“Let’s Get Loud,” by Jennifer Lopez]This podcast is powered by Pinecast.

Episode Notes Guatever: Episode 1 By: Maria Caamaño [Dominican] and Natalia Camino [Mexican]Listen to the playlist :) https://open.spotify.com/playlist/2EMqCDcHrDOjFquwQOHapN?si=-zAEA_goSkOSRd0dhZkyDQ[“I Like It,” by Cardi B, Bad Bunny, and J Balvin]Natalia: Hi! I’m Natalia Camino and I am a freshman here at Northwestern, double majoring in Econ and International Studies. Maria: And I am Maria Caamano and I am also a freshman here at Northwestern and I am majoring in journalism. For this podcast, I think we want to clarify that what we mean by Latin music isn’t just Latin artists. Like, we’re not just gonna be out here talking about Selena Gomez.Natalia: Or Demi Lovato. Maria: Yeah or like anyone who is like remotely Latino or makes music in English. We’re talking about real Latin American artists.Natalia: Artists. Yeah. And, like the type of music that primarily comes from Latin America but is not really only listened to in Latin America.Maria: Exactly.Natalia: As we will discuss in our podcast.Maria: However, in this episode of our podcast we are touching on Latin American artists who do make music in English. Natalia: Yeah. So that’s kinda why we made this podcast because we love Latin music and we listen to Latin music all the time in our room.Maria: Yes.Natalia: On the way to class, we have passionate discussions about Latin music. On the bus to Chicago. And we kinda just feel that Latin music is not really represented in the US. Even though it is listened to by a lot of people in the United States. Maria: Yeah. In 2018, the fifth most heard genre in the US was Latin music and it surpassed EDM and country music, which I mean, I’m not sorry about it surpassing country. Natalia: I mean...it makes sense. So, kinda going off of that, the relationship we have with Latin music growing up has been very different. So it’s kinda weird that we both have this – the same passion and love for it. Even though we come from very different backgrounds, I guess.Maria: Yes, for sure.Natalia: So it’s kinda weird that we both have the same passion and love for it, even though we come from different backgrounds. I guess.Maria: So do you want to talk about your background?Natalia: So I moved to the U.S – I moved to Michigan- [from Mexico] when I was six years old and I grew up in Farmington Hills, MI. Which is considered one of the most diverse cities, or areas, in the U.S, but, like, even with that there were still only ten Latinos in my class of 300-some people. So, for me, my experience with Latin music has been very individual. I started listening to Latin music sophomore year and I would be like, “Hey guys listen to this,” but my friends didn’t speak Spanish so they were like “Oh coool...okay.” Because they didn’t know what I was talking about. But, like, for you it was very different.Maria: Oh yeah, for sure. From my experience – I’m from Dominican Republic – I just moved to the US, about, I think now it’s four months? Natalia: She’s an international student! So exotic!Maria: So exotic! So tropical! But I like grew up in obviously, a Latin American country. So, obviously Latin American music was what I would hear on the radio. But, by the time I was in my teenage years, it kinda became this thing where I just felt very connected to it. As well as, like, just you would go to parties and that’s the only music they would be playing. So, eventually, if you want to avoid being the awkward person who doesn’t know what’s playing, you’ll eventually learn the songs. And then I had the privilege of, like, being able to go to summer programs in the US while I was in high school. So, I got to meet a lot of American kids by the time that Latin music was on the rise. It was just very different and it was very interesting to come from another country that that was solely the music you listen to. Natalia: To being the only one who listens to that.Maria: Exactly. And also like the idea of people being more open to it, I guess. I was more surprised by people being like “Oh, I want to listen to this. Can you recommend songs for me to listen to?” than by them being like “Oh, she listens to Latin music.” But, like, that’s it. Natalia: Yeah, like, I mean, we’re kinda talking about this too but there’s definitely been a change in the US recently in which people listen to Latin music more. So, also just another introductory thing for our pOdCaSt. Um, we’re mostly focusing on reggaeton and urbano, which are under the umbrella of Latin music. There’s obviously a lot more; there’s banda, norteña, classic Mexican, like José Miguel...NOT José Miguel. That’s my Uncle! [laughter]Maria: That’s my stepdad!Natalia: Luis Miguel and Jose Jose. Natalia: But yeah, so first we wanted to start with some misconceptions about reggaeton. Maria: Oh, yes. I guess we both have had this experience where our parents were like: “Oh my God. Reggaeton?!”Natalia: Yeah, like I told my parents I am doing a podcast on reggaeton and my mom was like, “reggaeton??!!” Like, scandalized, she was scandalized. If you listen to some of the big reggaeton and urbano hits, they’re kinda – the language they use sometimes can come off as kinda vulgar. Maria: Yeah, it’s kinda like dirty. Natalia: Yeah. Maria: But we’ve talked about this in the past. Like, we both think that it’s very...like, it wouldn’t make sense if they didn’t use that type of language.Natalia: The more you listen to reggaeton, the more you can tell that the words they use, they use it to either catch people’s attention, and then they also use it ironically. Like, these artists know what they’re doing. Maria: Oh, for sure, for sure.Natalia: They put a lot of thought. Maria: Yeah. Natalia: Like, it’s true art. Yeah. And so, I think also reggaeton has a negative connotation with the older generation.Maria: Oh, for sure. Natalia: It’s like Elvis Presley. In the 50s, people kinda thought Elvis Presley was scandalous and dirty. That’s what the older generation thought, but now he’s like an icon. And I think reggaeton kinda is that way too, like the older generation is like, “Oh, this is so scAndAlous! Ugh! oUr cHilDrens’ mInDs!”Maria: “Cover their ears!”Natalia: “Cover their ears!”Natalia: But, I think also reggaeton, like, some of the stigma surrounding reggaeton is because it comes from predominantly Caribbean sound. Maria: Yes.Natalia: And so, the Latino population is kinda – it’s not racist necessarily because we’re all kinda the same...we’re a mixture of races, but it’s like colorism.Maria: Well, like, the thing is, we’ve had this discussion in the past and obviously we’re not gonna get too much into it because its... Natalia: That’s not what this podcast is about. Maria: Yeah. And it’s also very controversial. But I think colorism is definitely a thing in Latin America.Natalia: It’s just stereotypes. Maria: Yeah.Natalia: So, like the older generation has a stereotype for what reggaeton is, and it’s subconsciously racist. But we’re not gonna really get into that. But yeah! Earlier we were talking about how recently we’ve seen a rise of Latin music in the US. And I think the first one, like...Maria: We have to give it credit as much as we hate to.Natalia: Yeah. I mean there’s been some hits here and there like “Danza Kuduro” and “Gasolina”; like, those still go hard everywhere. Maria: Yeah.Natalia: But the first one...That really like...Maria: That really resonated with people.Natalia: With the American public.Maria: Was…Natalia & Maria: “Despacito.”Maria: So...Natalia: By Luis Fonsi, Daddy Yankee, and LASTLY Justin Bieber. If you have not listened to the original Despacito with just Luis Fonsi and Daddy Yankee…Maria: That goes way harder than the Justin Bieber remix.Natalia: It’s like...Justin Bieber did to “Despacito” – this is an analogy – Justin Bieber did to “Despacito” what Justin Bieber did to “Bad Guy” with Billie Eilish. Maria: Oh! Yes.Natalia: He ruined them.Maria: Yep. But basically most people don’t know that “Despacito” had an original version, before Justin Bieber, that was only Luis Fonsi and Daddy Yankee and it was released in January of 2017. The Bieber remix, however, was released after they had already gained a lot of fame and success in Latin American countries with “Despacito.” And then they released it in April of 2017 with Justin Bieber.Natalia: I was listening to the original one.Maria: Same.Natalia: Like January through March.Maria: Oh, for sure.Natalia: I was like “Oh, this goes hard. It’s a good reggaeton song.” But then, “Despacito” came out and people literally did not know how to act. They were acting like it was the first Latin song to ever exist. But now, like today, whenever I hear “Despacito” – the remix – whenever it comes on shuffle it’s just a reminder that I have to get my shit together because “Despacito” to me now represents all that is bad in the world. Like, I can’t listen to “Despacito” anymore. Maria: Of course. “Despacito” was a really good song. Like she said, I was jamming out to it when it came out. And Bieber hadn’t done music for a long ass time during that time. And he just decided “You know what? Imma jump on this song. I’m gonna like…”Natalia: JUSTIN BIEBER DIDN’T EVEN KNOW THE WORDS HE COULDN’T SING THEM BECAUSE HE…But yes, so “Despacito” – other than – with Justin Bieber as much as he kinda ruined the song, he allowed for it to really propel forward in the United States. Maria: For sure.Natalia: Because, as you were saying, he hadn’t written or he hadn’t released a lot of music in a while. And so he kinda propelled it forward and people were losing their minds because they were like, “Latin music is good??? WHAT?!”Maria: “WOW!”Natalia: “Like, WHAT?!”Maria: And then “I Like It” came out, and when “I Like It” came out I don’t think Cardi realized the power this collab was gonna have. I appreciate Cardi, I’ve told this to Nat, I love her cause she’s Dominican. I appreciate that she’s honest, that she’s that bitch, and I like that she tried to make a song...Natalia: That went back to her roots. Maria: Yeah, exactly!Natalia: It’s like what she was trying to do. Yeah, so Cardi didn’t really know the power that Bad Bunny and J Balvin possessed in Latin America. Okay, I listened to “I Like It” because of J Balvin and Bad Bunny. Maria: Same.Natalia: Because, for those who don’t know, J Balvin...Last year in 2019, he was one of the top Spotify artists...Maria: He was the artist of the decade for 2019 with Ariana!Natalia: J Balvin has a musical monopoly. Sorry, my econ major is showing. He has a musical monopoly of the Latin American music industry in a sense. So, I listened to “I Like It” because of that, Maria: Yeah, same.Natalia: But then my American friends were like, “Oh, Cardi B! This is such a new song! Oh, it’s so good!” And I’m like, “Yeah, did you listen to Bad Bunny’s verse?! It goes so hard!” And they’re like, “Who’s Bad Bunny?” Maria: Yeah.Natalia: And I’m like melting on the ground like “Ughhhhh”. Maria: No yeah, I told Nat when we were having a very heated discussion at like 11 at night in our dorm that I think that without “I Like It,” Latin music couldn’t have stayed…Natalia: Relevant.Maria: Yeah. I think “Despacito” was kinda like what you would say a one-hit-wonder I guess.Natalia: Kind of, yeah.Maria: It was like, Natalia: It was a little sample.Maria: It put people’s minds into, like, “Oh, Latin music is okay I guess.”Natalia: It’s like a little sample. It’s like “Ooh, that was kinda good!”Maria: They saw that it was successful and then they released this, which was just amazing. It was the song of the summer. Cardi herself said in an interview with W magazine that she never thought that it would take off like it did.Natalia: And in 2018, Apple Music released that “I Like It” was the 6th most-streamed song of that year, which is crazy.Maria: Yeah.Natalia: Because like, no Latin song had ever reached that point before. Yeah, and especially with streaming, it allows music to be so much more globalized. Maria: Exactly, yeah.Natalia: Yeah, so like music has been able to be listened to around the globe so much more easily because of these streaming services such as Apple Music and Spotify and all that. Uh, so this kinda has allowed for Latin music to be on the rise in the U.S., so how do you feel about that? That’s like some of our closing remarks, I guess. Maria: I guess. I feel like it’s good. I think music, however, is something that is very global. And I think that I am very pro-listening to other culture’s music. Natalia: Yeah, for sure.Maria: I feel like other people listening to Latin music makes it also so that Latinos are kinda heard out a little bit more?Natalia: Yeah, I feel like it allows us to feel like we’re more a part of the American culture. But I still feel like there is a very long way to go. Maria: But I guess you could also make that argument that there’s a long way to go for everyone. Natalia: Yeah, I mean I feel like overall the music industry is very whitewashed.Maria: Yeah.Natalia: For sure. “I Like It,” even, which was the biggest Latin American song, they do swear in both English and Spanish.Maria: Uh-huh.Natalia: For those who don’t speak Spanish, they say all this stuff and the American government or censor people or whatever…the Federal Censorship Commission or whatever...AP Gov showing through. They censor the English swear words, they censor the n-word, but then they don’t censor like chingar and cabrón which are, like, for the large majority of Spanish speakers in the US...they know what that means. Maria: Oh, for sure.Natalia: So like, I think that’s kinda ironic and really shows how the American public doesn’t fully understand. Maria: In the end, what we are trying to say and what I think also what we are trying to achieve with this podcast is that we want more people to listen to Latin music, understand it, even if you don’t understand Spanish – we are here to try and ease you into it. Natalia: So, along with our podcast, there’s gonna be a playlist with each episode. I’m curating the playlist so this week it’s some of the songs we mention in today’s podcast and also some of the songs by artists that we are going to be covering in the next episodes because the next episodes we are diving more into different artists. Maria: And just their history, how have they been affecting Latin America, how have they been changing the music industry – just more about specific artists. Natalia: And that is it.Together: So tune in next time, or gUaTevEr.Natalia: This has been Natalia Camino.Maria: And Maria Caamaño. On NBN. [Outro of “I Like It” by Cardi B, Bad Bunny, and J Balvin]This podcast is powered by Pinecast.

Want to simplify your life? Guest expert on this topic and best-selling author Genevieve Parker Hill discusses 5 great tips for simplifying your life that you can walk away with and use immediately. Genevieve is the author of two books: Minimalist Living: Decluttering for Joy, Health, and Creativity and the upcoming Experience Over Stuff: How to Live Free in a World that Wants to Clutter You Up.  Genevieve has helped thousands of people live simpler, more joyful lives through her expertise, guidance and her www.SimpleLivingToolkit.com. Genevieve also has over 70,000 followers on social media. You'll be inspired to simplify your life in the New Year! To learn more about Champion’s Mojo visit www.ChampionsMojo.com  Champion's Mojo is on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Play and everywhere podcasts are found.  Quote of the Week “Letting go of items or memories connected to bad emotions can make you more lighthearted and make you feel better.” -- Genevieve Parker Hill 5 Tips to Simplify Your Life, via Genevieve Parker Hill Declutter your stuff Are you a purger or a collector? Identify your own attitude toward stuff.   Blaze and gaze strategy: Blaze -- Imagine a fire engulfs part of your home. Keep  only what you would want to keep from a fire. Gaze - Important paperwork or  sentimental items; Items worth holding onto and look at individually. Focus on your one thing and own the opportunity cost. When you focus on your one thing, you say no to many other things. Apply the Pareto principle or the 80/20 rule. 80% of your results come from 20% of your activities Let go of emotional baggage and increase lightheartedness. Digitize and minimize sentimental items. Let minimalism give you permission to pursue what you truly want wholeheartedly.  Kelly and Maria’s Takeaways Kelly: Own the opportunity cost of making the podcast grow, even though it takes time and money. Ask myself what 20% of work this past year produced 80% of my results?  Maria: It’s painful to let things go, like commitments, but it’s important to let things go to welcome the things I really want to do. I’m going to be open to change.  Episode Topics and Mentions House fire Paris Minimalist Living: Decluttering for Joy, Health, and Creativity by Genieve Parker Hill Experience Over Stuff: How to Live Free in a World that Wants to Clutter You Up by Genevieve Parker Hill Purgers Collectors Tae Kwon Do The One Thing by Gary Keller Lewis Pugh Pareto Principle New York City 9/11/2001 Breast cancer Have something you want to share with Champion’s Mojo? Email it to info@championsmojo.com Keep up with the show by visiting YouTube, ChampionsMojo.com and visiting the Facebook page, Instagram page, and Twitter page. 

Putting Joy in Your Life Are you ready to invest more joy in your life? This episode’s special guest is Jeff Commings -- an author, broadcast personality and elite swimmer. Commings talks about how he has learned to find joy in the life in front of him and avoid feelings of negativity or missing out. He gives advice for listeners to feel energized about all areas of life, including making exercise a priority.  “If you don’t have that thing that is just for you, you won’t find joy in what you are doing. You just have to find the time for you,” Commings says in the episode.  Subscribe to the Champion's Mojo podcast on YouTube. Leave us a review, too! If you subscribe on YouTube you could win one of our monthly prizes. Champion on's Mojo is also on Apple Podcasts, Spotify and Google Play. More About Jeff Commings Jeff Commings is a current world record holding member of U.S. Masters Swimming, a media personality for USA Swimming and has covered the sport of swimming as a journalist for decades. Commings is a decorated swimmer from the University of Texas, Austin where he was an Olympic Trials Qualifier. Currently, he is a world record setting masters swimmer. Commings is a media personality for USA Swimming and has hosted the Morning Swim Show and Deck Pass shows, among others. In 2010, Commings published Odd Man Out -- An Autobiography: True Stories of a Gay Black Swimmer. He currently hosts the podcast The Baton: A John Williams Musical Journey that chronicles the 108 films of composer John Williams.  Episode Topics and Mentions Masters Swimming TYR ProSwim Series Journalism Film Albuquerque, New Mexico Denver, Colorado Rocky Mountain News Swimming lessons Podcast Podcasting Going to the movies The Baton: A John Williams Musical Journey Odd Man Out -- An Autobiography: True Stories of a Gay Black Swimmer NCAA Swimming College swimming Olympic Trials Coming out Gay man Action Items From the Hosts  Maria: It is okay to walk away from things that are not for you. Incorporate regular exercise into your life because it actually gives you more time and energy to accomplish more.  Kelly: Make use of time management to enjoy life more - and include everything from work tasks to working on your relationships.  Quote of the Week: “Find ecstasy in life: the mere sense of living is joy enough.” -- Emily Dickinson Have something you want to share with us? Email it to 4championsmojo@gmail.com.  Keep up with the show by visiting YouTube, ChampionsMojo.com and visiting the Facebook page, Instagram page, and Twitter page. 

Download Today in the show, Joe talks to Maria Carvalho and Helena Valente, founding members of Kosmicare, a drug testing, and harm reduction service at the Portugal Festival, Boom. Joe talks to Maria and Helena on their personal backgrounds, how they got into Boom, research on recreational use, what harm reduction looks like, and what populations are underserved. Drug use is decriminalized in Portugal, and the focus of risk minimization has been useful in getting the population served versus putting people in prison. 3 Key Points: Kosmicare is a harm reduction and psychedelic emergency service starting at Boom music festival in Portugal. Working to support other events in Europe. Boom is in Portugal, where drugs are decriminalized and drug testing is legal. Drug policy has directly affected the number of emergencies that Boom has had. The Portuguese drug policy has resulted in fewer overdoses, drug-related deaths, and HIV infection. Other countries like the US should consider a drug reform with the current opioid crisis. Support the show Patreon Leave us a review on iTunes Share us with your friends – favorite podcast, etc Join our Facebook group - Psychedelics Today group – Find the others and create community. Navigating Psychedelics Show Notes About Kosmicare Kosmicare is a non-profit organization that looks to transform nightlife culture through humanistic, comprehensive and evidence-based policies and interventions They work toward a world where drugs can be used with liberty and wisdom Making festivals safe in Europe About Maria Psychologist, graduated in 1999 at University of Porto She started working in the field of problematic drug use Growing up in a difficult neighborhood was her purpose for getting into studying psychology and drug use She began focusing on recreational use Her younger brother was into the Electronic Dance scene and positioning himself with using substances She was interested in studying other motivations to use drugs than just using drugs to feed a problem She heard an announcement by MAPS in 2008 recruiting volunteers to do work in psychedelic emergency at Boom It was the perfect match considering her interest in psychology and drug use in recreational environments About Helena Helena is a Psychologist who was interested in drug use She wanted to have field experience, and she volunteered in a needle exchange program She began working for a harm reduction project to work in recreational settings that needed volunteers She became interested in the potential that drug checking has in the harm reduction strategy They are working toward a ‘drop-in’ where people can show up to a permanent space for drug checking and harm reduction The Numbers Over 20,000 people showed up to Kosmicare’s information session This year for the first time, Kosmicare had an HPLC (High Performance Liquid Chromatography) to identify LSD and pills They tested over 700 drug samples in 6 days Maria says half of the Boom population gets in contact with Kosmicare They serve 1% of the Boom population for psychedelic emergency (about 350 cases out of 35,000 attendees) The episodes usually have to do with psycho-spiritual situations versus just an emergency about the drug taken Psychedelic Emergencies Boom is a transformational festival that hosts attendees from over 50 countries Boom is different from Burning Man in that Boom is in Portugal which has a much more legal framework which helps with the services that can be offered Drug policy has directly affected the number of emergencies that Boom has Joe states that there are numbers of regulatory police at Burning Man Kosmicare is included in the entire setup of Boom, which helps reduce the number of scenarios that would cause an emergency at the festival, such as providing shaded areas all over It gets up to 43 degrees Celcius (108 Fahrenheit) But there is a water element so people can refresh themselves In the largest dance areas at the festival, they included medical emergency Teepees so attendees could be helped as quickly as possible Recreational Drug Use They did a survey on recreational drug use and most of the respondents said they use drugs in a beneficial way that doesn't interrupt their lives in a bad way Similarly with Boom attendees, most of them want to use harm reduction techniques so they have positive experiences and don't develop problems with their drug use Mat Southwell “drug users are calculated risk takers” “The legal framework has a terrible influence on people's relationship with drugs” - Helena Lessons Learned Maria says they have had many groundbreaking challenges In 2016 they had someone die on them while having a psychedelic emergency It made her really question why she was doing this Her first impression was that she was doing this work to save the inexperienced user She was caught off guard by the person who died because they were an experienced user and didn't taking unadulterated substances “People may go over the top for a wide variety of reasons, it was the biggest lesson I learned working for the Psychedelic Emergency services” - Maria It's hard to determine people's ability to calculate risks If the person had collapsed in front of an urban hospital in the city, the Hospital couldn't have done anything more than what they did at Kosmicare Collaborations Kosmicare has a collaborative relationship with Zendo MAPS was hired by Boom to direct the harm reduction services They use a lot of Stan Grof techniques for transpersonal psychology They are partnered with many other organizations in Europe that are trying to deliver the same type of psychedelic emergency and harm reduction services The Risks of Drug Policy Joe points out that there are so many festivals happening without these services The Rave Act prevents companies from attending festivals because it “harbors” drug use In Portugal, the fact that drug use is decriminalized, it opened up a legal framework around harm reduction Portugal is one of the few countries where drug checking is allowed by law The Portuguese drug policy has resulted in fewer overdoses, drug-related deaths, HIV infection, tuberculosis and other things Helena says that the US should rethink their drug policy considering the opioid epidemic In Portugal, there were only 12 overdose cases with heroin and opioids Portugal before the Drug Policy In the 80’s, there was a heroin epidemic, which had an epidemic of high infection rates and HIV. This motivated the policy change It was evident that prohibition was not working Usually when it affects only poor people, no one cares, but the fentanyl crisis is affecting all sorts of populations Links Website Facebook Check out this FREE online course, "Introduction to Psychedelics" About Maria Maria Carmo Carvalho, Kosmicare Manager, Boom Festival, Portugal, is a Lecturer at the Faculty of Education and Psychology at the Catholic University of Portugal. She researches if the field of psychoactive substance use and has completed a MSc and a PhD at the University of Porto on the field of psychoactive substance use, youth and recreational environments. She is Vice-President of ICEERS and Kosmicare Boom Festival manager since 2012. About Helena Helena Valente began working with people that use drugs in 2004, focusing in nightlife settings. Helena has a vast experience in coordinating national and European projects in the drug field. At the moment she is a researcher and PhD. Candidate at the Faculty of Psychology and Educational Sciences of the Porto University and founding member of Kosmicare Association.

Kat: Okay. Oh. How do I do this? Wait for it. Patrick: Got to do it. Kat: Are you going [crosstalk 00:00:42] through the snow? Patrick: Yeah I'm going through the snow. I got it at like 60 degrees in here right now. It's 60 degrees in my house, I have no idea why. Kat: Is that cold? Patrick: To me it is, yes. Kat: Does that mean cold, I don't understand your language. Patrick: To me it is very cold. To me its subzero temperature, I'm absolutely freezing right now. I'm about to die of a cold or flu. Kat: Your dying? Patrick: Yup. I have not gone [crosstalk 00:01:11] Kat: It's a sad state. I'm going to ... Patrick: Hold on let me [crosstalk 00:01:18] Kat: I'm finding out what temperature that is. I'm Googling it so everybody understands what's happening. Patrick: Oh yeah, it doesn't translate. Doesn't translate in your language. Kat: Oh, it's 15 degrees. Hang on I've got to shut the door, there's window men right outside my door and it's super noisy. One second. Patrick: 15 degrees. Holy shit, what the fuck happened to my computer. So what's up everybody, hello, hello, welcome everybody. I'll go ahead and say that. Hello? Kat: What's up? Patrick: [inaudible 00:01:47] everybody's already said something. I don't know, my computer just took a shit. I've no idea. So did you say 15 degrees, your words? This is retarded. Hold on. I can't hear you. Kat: [inaudible 00:02:04] must be dying. Patrick: I can't, what the [crosstalk 00:02:06] Kat: Am I back? Am I back? Patrick: Yeah you're back. Oh, I forgot we're on my internet connection. Kat: Yeah I had ... No, it's because I put my earplugs in because my house cleaner is upstairs vacuuming. Patrick: Oh well how fancy, how fancy. Kat: I'm very fancy, you know that. Patrick: Very fancy with your extravagance earbuds. Kat: So I said that everybody should send you a love heart shower because you're surviving in only 15.555 degree Celsius right now, for the Australians. Now, if people are from Melbourne though, which is my hometown, they're going to be like, "Harden the fuck up, that's warm," but here where I live that's horrible. Horrible. Nobody should have to endure those sort of ... Patrick: Yeah, these are very horrible circumstances. [crosstalk 00:02:58] Kat: Nobody should have to endure those sort of subzero temperatures. Patrick: Nobody should be asked to endure these subzero temperatures, I'll tell you that. All right. Kat: All right. I might need some assistance. Can you help me out? Patrick: What do you got? Kat: Should I wear my hair like this? Should I wear my hair like that or behind? Or on one side? What's the best livestream hair? Patrick: I kind of like it behind. Kat: Out? Patrick: That looks good. Kat: Behind, all right. There you go everybody. Patrick: There you go. That looks good. Kat: We're going to talk about [crosstalk 00:03:37] Patrick: That's the queen Kat look. Kat: [crosstalk 00:03:39] Cleopatra. Patrick: She says, Angela said, [inaudible 00:03:43] I'm in Texas right now. Texas by way of Bali, very, very soon. In the next month, no, no, this month. This month, I'm going next week, next week. Kat: This week maybe. Maybe even tomorrow. Patrick: No I have to wait till the weekend. Kat: Oh well. Patrick: Have to wait till the weekend because [crosstalk 00:04:04] I have to move my stuff. Kat: Time and space is just, time is just an illusion anyway. The weekend could mean tomorrow. Could mean today. Could all be one day. That's extended into itself. Patrick: Time is an illusion [crosstalk 00:04:18] Kat: I think I'm going to take these out again now. I'm going to take these out again now because they're annoying me. Patrick: What is [inaudible 00:04:25] giving you a delay? I'm going to drop this in my [crosstalk 00:04:30] Kat: No, I just prefer no earbuds and the vacuuming stopped. But check it out, I'm sorry that I keep doing this to you Patrick, but I'm going to do it anyway. Are you ready? Patrick: I'm ready. Kat: I'm just eating my bacon and eggs with my Vegemite while in waiting for us to go live. Patrick: Oh my God. Oh my god. Kat: I was halfway through eating. Patrick: How are you destroying this fucking meal with that shit? That's an all American meal, and you're just going to destroy it with that. Destroy it, it's completely just- Kat: Look, pay attention. You want to put the Vegemite straight onto your eggs. Straight on. Patrick: What's that green thing? I don't want to put that Vegemite anywhere near my eggs. I don't want it anywhere near any of my food. Kat: That's avocado. Patrick: Oh that's an avocado? Kat: That's avocado. Patrick: I thought you all had green eggs and ham over there or something because I don't even know. Kat: You want to eat that with, look, pay attention. Patrick: I have no idea what you all have over there. Kat: You want to put a little bit of Vegemite on the avocado, eat it like that. I don't know why I get so much enjoyment from doing this to you. Patrick: [crosstalk 00:05:29] it's just crazy how different people's taste buds are. Kat: It's so good. Patrick: What you just did- Kat: It's just because- Patrick: What you just did was the equivalent of somebody spraying a cat turd on a fucking piece of toast and eating it to me, that's just what I just saw you do. Kat: I'd love to have some toast. [crosstalk 00:05:52] I'd love to have toast with avocado. You also- Patrick: What's up [crosstalk 00:05:57] on here. Feel like we're getting delayed [crosstalk 00:06:00] again, we're delayed. Kat: We're not delayed. The internet just doesn't know how to keep up with us, but really you should also always dip your bacon straight into the Vegemite. Pay attention. Look. Patrick: I'm not paying attention to that, it's fucking heresy. Kat: Because salt with bacon. The saltiness, it's like extra salt in it. It's great. Patrick: That's the most disgusting thing. Kat: So yesterday- Patrick: You're so beautiful and then you do such disgusting things to yourself. It's just weird. It's like [crosstalk 00:06:37] weird, it's like- Kat: It's part of my mystique. Patrick: Why did this very creative hot chick just do the nastiest thing. It's like watching a shizer video. Know what shizer is, [crosstalk 00:06:44] the German [crosstalk 00:06:45] Kat: I'm sorry, but thanks. No. No. But I appreciate the compliment. Patrick: No. Have no idea [crosstalk 00:06:51] Kat: But I can't help it, it's part of my mystique. Patrick: That's not mystique, that's not. Kat: But it's actually ... Do I need to know? Patrick: What'd you say? We've got a delay, we've got a delay. Kat: Do I need to know? No I was waiting for you, do I need to know or understand? Patrick: Well you're from Germany, so you should know. It's basically German scat porn basically. You know what scat porn is? Have you ever heard of it? Kat: I don't watch any German porn. Currently I don't watch German porn. I watch regular, all American or Australian porn. Patrick: Well I'm saying that you can know of it, you can know of it. There's different types you know, when you're scrolling through you're going to see some different categories. There's grandma, there's all sorts [crosstalk 00:07:38] of different types. Then there's German shizer, there's scat porn, you just happen to be scrolling by it, see it, sometimes. Kat: So basically what's happened here is we came on to do a recoded conversation about art and resistance and flow and we're talking about German porn? Patrick: Yes. Particularly the scat variety. You invited me on here. Kat: I just like to keep- Patrick: You fucking invited me on here. Kat: I think you said we need to record our conversation. You said I believe ... Thank you. You said I believe it's time to record our conversation again or something like that I believe it is. You messaged me yesterday and then you must have rudely just gone to bed straight after messaging me because I needed help, I was stuck in the resistance, I wrote back to you with a happy faced emoji. Then you must have gone to sleep so I just had to live in the resistance all by myself with nobody to kick my ass. Patrick: Yeah, I saw that, I was like man [crosstalk 00:08:38] Kat: And that's how I ended up with [crosstalk 00:08:39] Patrick: That was a weird thing to wake up to, I was like wow, you were in the, you, Kat of all people in the resistance? Now that's the part usually reserved for me. I'm the one that likes to play in the resistance. Kat: I know, it's mind blowing. The truth is maybe I just don't talk about it enough. It's like quicksand, it was dragging me into it. It was probably a Vegemite deficiency in my bloodstream. There was definitely a flow deficiency in my bloodstream. Patrick: It's all coming to a head you know. It's finally attacking your nervous system. Kat: The Vegemite? Or the flow? Patrick: Yes. Kat: So then okay, so this morning I went to Muay Thai and I was doing my rounds in the ring and I couldn't breathe properly. It's fucking annoying because I'm very fit, but my fitness just wasn't there. He's like, "What's going on?" And I said to him, my trainer, "I think I'm just not connected to my body properly yet." Like I haven't connected into my body yet because my mind's thinking about other stuff and we had already done maybe three or four rounds. I was going hard, but I was just like kind of breathing like that, but I wasn't feeling anxious about anything. So then it was just fucking annoying, but as soon as I, like we got to maybe 30 or 40 minutes into the session even, and then you feel that switch click and you connect to flow and you're just like holy shit, it's on and you're in that dance and that super flow. Kat: It's exactly like business. I was saying to my trainer this morning it's like, you're like, ugh, even I get this, I get it every fucking day. Like people maybe think I'm motivated because I do so much content. Well I'm driven by, I hate the fucking feeling of when I don't do my content. I just feel like shit if I don't do my art, but that doesn't mean that when I sit my ass in the chair that it's flowing. It's often exactly the same as at the start of that workout where the first 10 or 20 or 30 or even 40 minutes, you just feel like you're wading through quicksand. You don't feel connected properly and you're not breathing deeply and then you're thinking, this shit, what am I even writing. Even yesterday after I messaged you then I was like fuck you, apparently you're not going to message me back and save me, so I'm going to have to write something myself and figure it out. [crosstalk 00:11:07] Patrick: [inaudible 00:11:10] all the time. Kat: And I write something, I write a blog anyway, but it was so shit. I posted it anyhow on Facebook, it was just the lamest thing I've ever posted in the history of time. It's still there, everyone can see it from yesterday. Even my team are like, "What is this, is this a blog? Are we supposed to put this on the Instagram story? What is this actually, there's no photo, it's not long enough." No, they weren't really ... But my point is you just got to do that damned thing anyway. You don't wait for flow, you get into flow. Sometimes you've got to get in and it's like a tumultuous, whitewater river and you just got to get pounded under the water again and again and knocked back down. Then at some point it's like boom, I'm in the flow zone. Everyone just wants to be in the flow zone, but you don't get there without being willing to go through the quicksand a bit. Patrick: No, it's funny you mention this now and I glad we're on here talking about this because I actually had exactly what you're talking about happened today, but fortunately ... So, did you ever get back into, did you ever reach flow or did you just spend the whole day just not, you didn't get there? Or did you finally get there? Kat: Yesterday, you know what, I wrote the damn post anyway. I published a post, I put a sales call to action on the end because I fucking show up for my art, that's my commitment. I'm very consistent. I'm probably the most consistent person on the internet with content, I believe. And I'm personally doing all my content myself as well, it's not like you know some people put a tonne of content out there, but how much content are they actually doing. Patrick: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Kat: I think I'm like the most consistent person out there. So I posted the damn post anyway, I had to cut it short because I was meeting somebody and I knew that he was going to be there any minute. I was like all right, I didn't even have the time to get into my flowzone, I had like 12 minutes. I'm like fuck, I'll write something. I still wrote a damn blog, I still put a sales call to action on the end. I was like, this is bullshit, but, I don't know how many likes or comments are on it, but the people who commented and liked it, the people who commented were like, "This is exactly what I needed." And so it's about getting out of your own way, but then after that I went on a walk for like two hours. Had a good conversation and then came home and I still wasn't quite in that flowzone and I thought I could livestream last night and snap myself into it. But I didn't, resistance got me by the ass. I sat around for a bit, fucked around, pretending to do things on the computer and then I just went to bed. Kat: But, this morning, I don't know if you read my blog this morning. It was so good, it might be one the best posts I've written this year. It's called, "You're not a marketer you're an artist. A tortured one or not, and you'd better start fucking acting like it," or something like that. When I wrote that [crosstalk 00:13:55] blog ... Huh? Patrick: I saw it, I usually read your stuff at night on my time, nighttime you know. At the end of my day I'll read it. So you kind of catch me whenever I haven't read it yet. Kat: You're going to like that one. I'm so happy with that. You know when you write something or you do a livestream and you're just like oh, yeah, I fucking nailed it. Or, I didn't even know what I wrote, but I got what I want from it. I got that release and that connection to soul and then I went straight to training to Muay Thai then I was disconnected for 35 minutes. Then I got in the zone and holy shit, the last 15 or 20 minutes of my workout this morning, I have not brutalised myself like that in a while. It was so good, like I was nearly collapsing onto the floor. It's like that voice in your head that's like oh, are you going to die, are you going to die, you think you're going to fall down and die? You can't keep going? Are you dead yet? No, then keep fucking going bitch. I was just smack talking myself and I was so on the edge of being like I need timeout, I need to stop early. Kat: I just kept going and I kept thinking of, like I always remember Arnold Schwarzenegger saying that your body can go so much further than your mind. Like when you think that your body is done, whether it's in training, but also with the business. Your writing, your art, it's such a load of bullshit. I love nothing better than kicking my own ass and being like oh, you think you're hurting, you think this hurts? Keep fucking going. It's the most empowering feeling in the world. I literally collapsed onto the floor in the ring at the end of the session. Within a second though I had the biggest smile on my face already even though I was in agony. Kat: It's just, I don't know, I don't know how many people relate to that, but I love the pain, the purposeful pain. Otherwise, you just feel like you're not alive. So that resistance got me yesterday, but then today I eliminated it. Patrick: Well I know we were talking, the night before I believe, we were talking about how to say enjoy resistance. We were also talking about some of the things that were going on with your spot and where you were living at and things like that. We were talking about being where you were at and that you might have to create new challenges for yourself. You think this is maybe a product of that? Maybe your mind switched over to that, maybe you wanted some more resistance and you brought that to yourself? Kat: Maybe, that's a good point. Yeah, we had a phone call the other night that went for nearly three hours. At the end we were like fuck, we forgot to record our phone call again, so that we can sell it to everybody. It was so good. So now we- Patrick: It was good. Kat: No we're doing this for everyone. You can send [crosstalk 00:16:38] us a love heart [inaudible 00:16:40] huh? Patrick: Some love hearts to what? Kat: To thank us for being here and speaking. Patrick: Oh yeah, for sure. Check this out though, so we talked about that right and then so now that was happening, this resistance was happening. Now I've been like, the resistance is easing up on me. I've been going through fucking resistance because I'm a glutton for punishment. I don't know what do they call it, sadistic? No, it was masochist, what's the one where you like to get kicked in the balls? Kat: Isn't one of them like means you like to hurt other people and one means you like to hurt yourself? Masochist is you like self punishment I think. Patrick: Yeah, I think that's the one. Kat: And sadist is you like to hurt other people. Patrick: Yeah, yeah. Yeah, one of those two, the one where you get kicked in the balls. Obviously that's what I'm going through right now, I like to kick myself in the balls here. I've been going through that resistance, what we talked about on the phone. Maybe I want to, obviously yes, of course, why the fuck, how could it be any other way? How could it be any other way? Anything that you're going through, any resistance that you have in your life is because you want it to be there. Plain and simple. There's no other way around it, if you take responsibility for everything in your life as you should, as you should. If you believe in manifestation, if you believe it's all in your control. If you fucking believe in manifestation, [inaudible 00:18:03] you can alter your body by eating donuts or ramen noodle soups and still lose weight. If you believe that you have that [crosstalk 00:18:12] kind of control- Kat: Who said anything about donuts? Patrick: If you believe that you have that kind of control over the universe, then you better damn fucking well believe that you're making this shit up. That you're making up the resistance, you're creating the resistance. You're creating the despair, the feeling, the thoughts or the anguish. All that shit you want to, you fucking masochist you. You want the kick in the balls for some reason. Patrick: Okay, well I'm tired of the kick in the balls I guess. I must be done with it because today, so and then we're talking about now we're talking about my day. What's up Johnny? What's up Pistol Pete. Then we're talking about, now it's kind of easing up on me right. I woke up this morning and I saw your message, I'm like damn, I left her in the cooker last night. She's just, it's like I can't believe I saw this message of resistance here. I'm like, I was blown away by it you know, but I knew you were asleep, so obviously went about my day. Patrick: I started out my day just like you're talking about. I couldn't get into where I was trying to go. I was getting wrapped up and started right out the gate getting into shit that's not my art. Started getting into stuff pertaining to my other business, which I had put a cutoff date. We had just got done talking about that, saying fuck everything until noon or whatever, you know, until we get going. Right off the bat I start getting things happening though that were saying to me that some resistance was being overcome in the other business. So I was like huh, so I took the bait you know. I took the bait. Patrick: Not only that, last night I had found a blog post that I had written and I had never posted it. I got scared about it and I didn't post it. I was acting like a little bitch and I left it there. And so I discovered it and I was like fuck, I had already wrote a blog post that night. So, I had two blog posts and so I was happy about that, I'm like okay, I've got two. I'm going to drop those tomorrow. So I'm feeling good about that. I went to sleep and I woke up and immediately some things started happening at the other business, some resistance was overcoming the other business. I'm like fuck, okay, okay we're making some headway here so this is good. I jump right in this, it's like 8:00 in the morning, I jump right into that and start going to mess with my other business. Patrick: I get caught up with all that and next thing you know 12:00 comes around. I'm slugging, but I had been throughout the day doing tiny things because I'd been, I'm going to post content all day. Today, I'm just going to have a day where I post all content. You know on my Instagram, I'm going to post content throughout the day on my Facebook, I'm going to post whatever. I had just been starting to feel it again. Started to post things and they were getting a lot of engagement on them you know, just things that I would think, I'd post it and just small things you know, not real boring blog posts. Patrick: Then I drop my blog post on there, sprinkle that because I had that ace up my sleeve, so I drop the blog post, bam. I drop the other blog post, bam. Then it just started to come together, right. Then we rolled right into, right about 12:00 noon or so I took a little nap and then 1:00 PM and then the resistance just started to go down. All just starts to crumble right? Kat: Yeah. Patrick: Everything starts going right. I just start banging out all sorts of stuff. Me and Travis ended up doing, we just got done off of a livestream, which generated a lot of new people into our circle and to his audience. I'm jumping on here with you and now this is going, this is a great one right, so just like all the ones that we do. And so, it just started rolling, that's been my day. It just started rolling, and it started out just like you talked about though. It's very sluggish, but it took me till about 1:00 PM till it just started to roll really good, but I stuck with it. I stuck with it, I just kept on thinking I've posted, but it was like bite sized pieces of content that I kept dropping that led up to it. Kat: Yup. Exactly. Exactly and we talked about this when we were on the phone the other night that was like until 2:00 AM my time, that massive phone call. I said the same thing about when you're working out and it's like the first 10 or 20 minutes or however long, you just feel like fuck this shit. I don't really want to be here, I'm not feeling it. That was me this morning in the ring, I was like oh, fuck. Okay, yeah, I'm here, I'm doing what I need to be doing, but my mind was like why am I here. I'm not really vibing with this and I wish I didn't come today or whatever. You just fucking learn over the years, you figure it out finally when time is passing you by in your life and then you still didn't do the damn shit that you said you were going to do. At some point you just figure the shit out where you're like, oh fuck. Kat: I can remember, probably five years ago I can remember feeling like I think I was waiting, I thought there would be a point in my life where I would evolve to being a person whose always motivated and always ready, always has the inspired ideas and wants to do the damn thing. I remember one day it just kind of smacked me in the face like a wake-up call where I was like, oh shit, I just realised that for the rest of my life I will still battle resistance because it's part of the human condition. Particularly as an artist, resistance is inherent to being an artist, that's why I wrote this morning about the tortured soul. Probably your blog influenced my post this morning a little bit because you know, like I told you, when I got up in the morning before I journal I always read something. There's only like five people whose shit I'll read and I checked if you posted something new. I checked, you had posted something new so I read your blog and it was full-on. For me I found that full-on to read to hear the voices inside of your head. I was like holy shit that was so raw, it was like everybody should go read that blog. It's on your personal profile right? Patrick: Appreciate it. Kat: Go read it. But it was kind of painful to read, I found it kind of painful to read. Patrick: That's so funny you said that, [crosstalk 00:24:31] somebody messaged me, two people messaged me and they said the exact fucking same thing. They said, "I can't believe that shit. I did not know you wrote like that," and they said that it was painful. I said, "Well, what's painful about it?" It was like, "Well, it's painful to read." Two women you know, so I was wondering why is it painful for you to read it, you know what I mean? That's what I was wondering because I really was thinking about connecting with guys for it you know, more along the lines with the guys. Kat: Well, for me personally I found it painful to read because I care about you. I was like, that's like hearing somebody that you care about saying that shit about themselves, it's like fuck, it just felt painful for me for that reason. I don't know about what other people's reasons are, but also because I could relate to it. At first, I was thinking this so fucking full-on I can't believe you say that shit inside of your head, I found it shocking. Kat: Then I was like wait, why do I find it shocking, it's only shocking because you're writing it down because I've said all that same sort of shit to myself many times over as well. In my way, about my own stuff and if people heard the voices inside my head I'm sure they'd be shocked. Like you were taken aback even by me just simply saying that I'm in resistance, right? Now think about the shit that you put in that blog, it was extreme. Well I think that's why at first I was like, this is so full-on, like I felt shocked or upset about it just relevant to you personally, not in a general sense. Then I was like wait, no, it's just because this is a very raw, extreme thing for somebody to write down. I definitely have said so much to inside of my own head. Kat: Then I loved the way you finished the post like where basically you choose each day, every day you have those voices in your head and then you have the voice that's saying that you can and that you will. Then that is now what you do, you do your damn journaling, you do your content, you're showing up for your business and for your art. That's exactly the same as me and that's what I've always done and that's what I've done to get to this point. Now, for sure I don't have as much of those voices as I used to, it is less because I guess I've proven myself, to myself to whatever degree. Kat: But it's still here and that's what I think so many people don't understand about me. I'm not, or about anyone, about you as well, you do your livestreams every day, I do my content every day. People then go, oh no well I couldn't be like Patrick or I couldn't be like Kat. They're motivated, they're good on camera or whatever it is, but then go and read what you wrote about how you feel about yourself some of the time. Or if somebody could hear inside of my head and the smack talk that goes on in there. It's about realising that yeah, as you keep going and as time passes it will get easier, and I think you said this in your post, it gets easier because you learn how to deal with it. I feel like I learned how to dance with resistance and I can see it for the bullshit that it is, whereas maybe earlier on in my life I tended to believe it more. Kat: Now even if I feel like I'm believing it a little bit, I'll be like, yeah, no, I know exactly what's going on here. I do know what the answer is because fucking 20 years of training, of fitness training, has taught me how to get into flow and how to breakthrough resistance and discipline my ass and if you're not dead yet you keep going. Then many, many years in business as well has taught me the same thing, so I always know that the answer is too fucking bad, sit your ass down and do the damn thing. Sometimes it will feel fucking incredible, like today when I wrote my blog I was on the biggest high. I got in the car and I was just slamming my best tunes and then driving down to the fight gym. I was like, this is the best day ever, I'm so in the zone and that's an amazing feeling. Kat: I wish I could have that feeling every day, but yesterday felt like quicksand day. It doesn't matter right, like some days you'll feel superflow, some days you won't, so the fuck what. Either way you keep going, but for sure because I read your blog first and then normally I read a piece, I read if you write something or [inaudible 00:28:44] or whoever else I read, like such a small handful of people. Then I go into my journaling and then usually I write my blog after that. Today I read your blog first and then it really did impact me a lot, then I went straight into writing my blog, I didn't even do anything on [crosstalk 00:29:00] yet today, which is [crosstalk 00:29:01] Patrick: Damn, did my blog fuck your day up? Did my blog fuck your day up? Kat: No, no, it's the opposite because I had to write straight after that. Patrick: Oh, that's good. Kat: I went straight into writing that piece, but I was partly responding to you and partly I was thinking about one of my inner circle clients and partly it was for myself. Okay wait, we're going to need to start again because Brandon just jumped on and he asked that we start again. So where we started [crosstalk 00:29:26]- Patrick: I believe we started without him. Kat: Was with me dipping the bacon into the Vegemite. We got to start with the bacon and the Vegemite if we're starting from the top. Patrick: Can we please not? Kat: Anyway- Patrick: Brandon dammit, this was a bad day for that. Even though you're eating [crosstalk 00:29:39] Kat: Yeah, no, [crosstalk 00:29:40] read my blog later you'll see my blog was partly like it's speaking to you and like I was talking to you, but then I was talking to myself, but then I was talking to one of my clients and I told her that. It was just, I kind of love that because something you wrote definitely impacted what I created and what I created will be impacting other people. It's just amazing, it's the collective unconscious. Patrick: Well I saw your blog post and it jumped out at me. I was like this is something that I have to read, I just saw the title and I can't remember exactly what it said. I just saw it and I was like, I'm going to have to read that later on because I immediately saw it and I was feeling like, I don't know it was kind of geared towards me or something. The words weren't like that, but I just felt that, you know what I mean? Kat: Yeah, and I knew, usually I don't tell somebody if I write a blog that's skewed towards them because I know you're going to feel it anyway. It's not always, but often I'll be thinking of a particular person when I'm writing. It started off towards you and then it became about me. I thought it was going to be, I thought the post was going to be about honouring and respecting the artist, being like my soul recognises the artist in your soul, that sort of thing. Like the respect that I have for that and then it turned into kind of like a smack down post where I was kicking ass and I think that was at myself. Then at the end I was like fuck, this was not supposed to be about me. Then I brought it back around again and it just came out however it came out. Patrick: Oh see everything that I read, I'm like thinking, everything I read from you I'm thinking this is to me right. Kat: Everybody does, especially when I do, I don't know do you get this sometimes or have you had this happen, but if I do a post that's really quite brutal I'll tend to get like 20 people message me and they'll be like, "I know you were talking about me." And I'm like, "Well, if you think that I was, then maybe I was." Patrick: That could be the case, but I used to think that all the time when I worked for Ryan. I would always say and he'd said if you think, he said the same thing. If you think it is, it is. So, you're right, it's right, in the case if you think it is, it is, right. It's for you, it's for you if you are triggered by the wording. But I wrote mine like a while back and then I didn't feel anything about posting it. When I found it I was like, yes, I found it. I was like I'm going to post this now, no problem. I remember what you told me, it was like you should just not even think about it and just post it. So I posted it and it was apparently like real full-on, people said that. Patrick: I think that you do, like what I did was I was sitting there facing resistance big time whenever I started to write that. I was facing one of the biggest challenges of my life, which was making our first sale since we went out on our own, and it wasn't happening. It was taking like two weeks, I mean we were in this thing for like two weeks, damn near a month. I was sitting there, and I'm sure I had probably talked to you the night before, something like that. I was writing, I started to write the beginning of it you know, just to start thinking about what kind of shit you say to yourself whenever, or the kind of shit that people say to themselves whenever they're facing that. I really wanted to know, I started thinking about the things that I was thinking at the time. Patrick: Then I was like, well this is bullshit because this is right around when the shit broke and we made ourselves and everything started to work out for the better. That was when I was really, really getting into it and getting into manifesting and writing and controlling it you know. Right before it happened I just said, I'm just going to take all these things that are being said and I'm just going to go with it. As much as I can I'm just going to just get it all out there. Everything that I hear on the stream of thought, I'm going to just write it down as I go. Patrick: And so, I did, I just started fucking like turned on some music and I just started. Every one of the resistant thoughts that came through, I just typed as it was coming. I was like this is some fucking creative ass ways to talk shit to myself, you know, of this voice in my head that's talking this shit. Just so creative and the ways it says, the lies it says about you. I just put it down and it was just endless and relentless and didn't stop. I just had to stop it myself you know. It would have just kept going. Kat: It was relentless. That's how, like I was reading it, I was sitting down at the coffee shop. I was like how fucking long is this going for? It's just getting worse and worse, but that's why it was painful, I was like fuck me, I thought it would be finished now, it's still going? Then I was thinking, I hope there's going to be a reframe at the end of this and it's not just going to finish. And then there was. Patrick: The end. Your life is horrible. But I got it [crosstalk 00:35:01] it was like an experiment to just fucking just see if it would stop you know, but it wouldn't. I had to stop it myself which I guess you could say something about that. You have to stop that fucking voice yourself. It's not going to stop on its own. You have to stop it because [crosstalk 00:35:21] it's there if you want- Kat: You have to see it for what it is. Patrick: Yeah. Kat: You've got [crosstalk 00:35:25] to see it for what it is. Yeah, it's the devil. We were talking about this on the phone the other night. It's a seduction right? Patrick: Yes it is. Kat: Did you read Patrick's post Maria? It's like be prepared to be upset. If anyone reads that post, just be prepared to be upset, but it will be powerful for you. I think that we all think that we're the only ones who have those thoughts. It's natural to feel like if people knew the truth about me, or if people, like I should feel ashamed of myself or whatever. Everybody has those thoughts and then everyone looks at ... Yes, so Maria read your post, she's one of my inner circle clients, she said she was in tears. Exactly, I think for women in particular it's going to upset them. I thought it upset me because I had a personal interest, but I think it probably upsets everyone. Kat: It was very upsetting because it was so raw, but it's also incredibly healing. That's the sort of blog post that will heal people and probably healed you maybe when you wrote it or maybe by publishing it because it's so raw. That's the point I was trying to make in my blog this morning ... Where can you find this post, just click on, I'll get the link. I'm so helpful. I'll put the link here in the comments. Like I'm fucking up all my shit now. Kat: It's [crosstalk 00:36:45] like I wrote about this a little bit in my post that you've got to, to impact people, like yesterday I was talking to somebody new who I met about my business. I was explaining how I market, and he's an entrepreneurs as well with four amazing businesses, but a totally opposite sort of entrepreneur to me. We were talking about how the way that I show up on social media is the exact opposite of him. I put as much of myself out there as possible, and he's got as little of himself out there as possible. I was saying my system basically, my marketing is essentially I'll write these three thousand word blog posts every single day. The people who can get to the end of that and watch all my content are clearly, they're my soulmate clients or they wouldn't be sticking around that much. He was like- Patrick: I like that system. Kat: Holy shit, big long posts [inaudible 00:37:34] right, but he goes ... Oh yeah there's the blog. He goes, "Yeah, but that wouldn't work anymore would it," or something, or, "That's because you already built that up or something like that?" I'm was like, "No, no, it doesn't matter how crowded the internet is or how crowded Facebook is there is always going to be a space for the true artist to bear their soul." Like since the dawn of time, those of us who are storytellers, messengers and who actually reveal the raw shit inside of us, like what you wrote, was the painful, gritty, even ugly parts of the soul. It's almost like you don't want to look at it directly, it's like staring into the sun. It's too much, it's too intense, it feels too painful. Then at the same time it's magnetising and you can't look away. Kat: So somebody who can share a piece of their soul like that, like you do and like I do and like many people here do, really are very few people though in the total of the internet marketing world. That person doesn't fucking need to buy their followers like you livestreamed about yesterday and we talked about the other night. Or to worry about a fucking funnel or what's the best strategy or Facebook ads. Nothing wrong with doing your funnels and your whatever right, but it's the cherry on top. Anybody who can release a piece of their soul and is brave enough or willing to do that, will always have people that want to listen because it is a magnet. Kat: It's just mind blowing to me how so many amazing artists and messengers are out there wasting their lives thinking that the way to build a following or to make money is let me get my fucking funnel right or my strategy or my marketing for whatever bullshit. And let me have a pretty website on the internet and make sure that I have good head shots. Are you kidding me? Why don't you just strip yourself naked and show it to everybody? Your soul, right? That's all it takes. Patrick: Anybody [crosstalk 00:39:38] can have- Kat: Being willing to do that even in your own resistance. Patrick: And there's a lot of ego out there too. It's like everybody's got one of those, so how do you really separate yourself from everybody else. You know what I mean, everybody's got a marketing strategy, everybody's got a marketing plan. Everybody's got an ego, so how do you get that ... I get to talk to people today, I got to talk to somebody because of my blog post. One of my people, one of my people, as I call them true believers. He was going through some serious shit in his life, like some real, real horrifying shit that he told me about that I got to help him through, today. So to me to be able to help in such a way to change somebody's life, to save a life is, fuck, that's more important to me than the other shit. Patrick: The other shit's stupid and I wouldn't get that far with somebody if I didn't post something like I did, if I didn't say what I was really feeling I wouldn't get to say that. It wouldn't probably connect like that on that level with him. That to me is more rewarding than anything else I could be doing. Even if I have to take, for a while, you know it's going to be a while. I could go out here and make a marketing webinar and be very successful with it and make money off of it you know. I could do that. Kat: Successful. Patrick: Yeah, successful. Run traffic to it and do all ... I know how to do all that, I've done it. Or a book funnel or whatever you want to do. Whatever you want to do to make money. Give somebody an irresistible offer, tell them how to double or triple their income, whatever you want to do. That's fine, but understand that anybody can fucking do that. Anybody can do that. If you hold back, if you don't say what's on your mind, if you don't actually share a piece of yourself, then you're not really like an artist I don't think. You know? Then you're just giving people- Kat: You're not and you have to decide [crosstalk 00:41:46] if you want to be an artist first or a marketer first. Like, you're an amazing marketer, I know a lot about marketing as well. We can both do all that shit. I don't even think anybody can do it, it is still a skillset because plenty of people are trying to fucking do it and they're not doing anything, they're not getting anywhere with it. Kat: I did read a blog post one time by a mentor of mine from years back and she was like you got to choose, you're either an artist of an entrepreneur, who are you? I was like holy shit, she's right, I'm an artist first. I am an entrepreneur, I am a marketer, I where those hats and I've been an entrepreneur, like it's in my blood, I've been selling shit since I was three years old. But first and foremost I'm an artist. You've got to choose, you can't be in both camps. You can't be like, oh I'm an artist and I share from my soul and I do my soul purpose, but first let me build this pretty little funnel over here and then I'll be ready. It's bullshit. Kat: Nobody said you need that you needed the internet to get your message out there and to make money. Amazingly enough artist through the history of time have managed to have people fall in love with them without a Facebook page. I know it's mind blowing for everybody and you might need therapy [inaudible 00:42:57] and some sexual healing in order to come to terms with that, but you don't need any of that shit in order to get your message out there. What you do need is to be courageous enough to put the blinders on and just art, art, art, art, art because like we said, you have a true believer client as you call them, I call them my soulmate clients, who comes to you as a result of that post. That person is so connected to you now, there's instant trust, instant deep rapport, they become a longterm client who refer their friends and just be so in love with you and your message because they see themselves in you. Kat: Most people, you could do an automated webinar and get leads from that, like you said. You could become successful and I say successful like that because even if you were making great money doing that, which of course you could do and you know how to do. You would be, and we've talked about this many times, you would be miserable. You would be hating it, your soul would be dying because it wouldn't be doing your purpose work and you're essentially selling your soul to the wrong clients, the wrong people doing the shit that doesn't light you up. Kat: Whereas, when you go all in with your art yeah, like most people are going to be horrified at the idea of reading a daily two or three thousand word blog post or listening to a one hour livestream that you do. They're going to think that's crazy, who wants to listen to that. I've had people make fun of me so many times when I've had hater-ship online. Like, "Oh ha ha, who would read all that shit?" I'm like, "Well firstly I don't fucking care if anybody reads it because I'm writing it for me bitch, not for you. Secondly, clearly a few people are fricking reading it if you look at the business that I've created." Kat: So if somebody is going to read that or watch your webstream or read your post, then they come to you and talk to you, that person is a soulmate client for life. I'd rather 10 people like that than a 100,000 people that are fucking bored on Instagram or got off a webinar. Patrick: Well there going to fall off, those people are going to like, what people realise is how much of this bullshit that's out there that's the same. People don't show you their refunds, people don't show you their attrition rates. People are dropping off. They don't show you that shit. They don't show you that shit. All they'll show you is- Kat: Yeah, so true. So true and we talked about that the other night as well. Like my refund rate is like 0.000001%. I'll get like three refunds a year and two of them is because the person accidentally bought the same product twice. They're like shit, I didn't realise I already have it, can you refund me? Patrick: And I haven't had that one- Kat: That's not normal, what's the industry rate even? It's like- Patrick: It's crazy, it's like 30. Kat: 40 or 50% some of the time. Patrick: Yeah. Yeah, it's insane. Then people don't say that and then they don't say, they don't talk about you know, affiliates and things like that that they're doing. So numbers are fucking crazy you know what I mean? You can't even get into numbers there's so much bullshit out there. There's so much bullshit out there that you might as well just be truthful and honest and just put yourself out there. I get on here and I've got now these few people that come on, I mean anything that I do, they follow me around for whatever it is that I do. I did something with Travis today, which we did marketing and I dropped a link out there for our funnels and everything. I thought we're going to pull in these new prospects right and these clients for his side of things, you know his new audience and everybody who showed up was my people. They hopped on to see that we were talking marketing, they showed up, popped up. Kat: They watch you, or my people watch me instead of Netflix. My people say that all the time, they're like, "I can't believe what time it is and I'm still watching your content." That's all you want, but it's also like what we're saying here is your going to get a better result just following your art and making your marketing strategy should be your art. Then let's not forget also the selling of the soul side of it because even if it was true that you could make more money, which I do not believe, by following straight up internet marketing Stepford-preneurship you would be miserable, in sabotage, addicted to whatever shit that's not good instead of addicted to flow. And just not happy right? Kat: I did it that way, I built my business at first to where it was nearly at a million dollars a year because I did the fucking work and I did the marketing. I was right on the cusp of a million dollars a year in my business. This was in 2012, and I walked away. I shut the whole thing down, I walked away from all of it. I remember saying to my partner at the time, if this is the path to a million dollar business, I don't want it. I cannot do this anymore, I would rather go back to being a personal trainer. I said to him, "I'm going to give myself three months, give me three months. I'm going to prove that I can make money doing what I love, but fuck all that shit, I'm going all in doing what I want. If I don't do it in three months then I'll just go back to the gym and I'll be a trainer again because I know how to make a lot of money doing that." Kat: Well, I didn't do it in three months anyway, I ended up over $100,000 in debt and blew the whole thing up. Then eventually, eventually, I stayed though, I stuck to it and now look where I am because I've experienced what it's like to make good money by selling my soul. I mean, it's your life right, you want to be, this is like right now we're not really selling anything, but this is content. This is us filling ourselves up with our art and our craft. Even though we're not directly making an offer, how many people are becoming soulmate clients or true believer clients of each of us right now because of this content. Then we drop a link or we keep saying we're going to start recoding our personal phone calls and sell them. People are going to fucking buy that shit, like who wants to buy the recorded phone calls of when we talk to two or three hours- Patrick: I do. Kat: Because that shits gold, but sometimes we've got to keep it private. But, we'll figure it out. Patrick: Yeah, we got to keep some things private, a little bit, a little bit. Those are like extreme, super, super VIP shit. But Helen makes a good point, Helen's asking a good question here though, she says, "I get what you're saying," but she's surrounded by true artists putting themselves out there every day and never make any money, what would you say about that? Kat: Okay. Okay. Good, I'm so glad I asked this. Patrick: I like that one, yeah. Kat: I was ready to preach on this. I'm going to need a love heart shout-out first, send me the love hearts. Then I'll bring the [crosstalk 00:49:37] Kat show. Patrick: Can I do it to? [crosstalk 00:49:37] Kat: Can you do it too? Everybody shower me with the love heart. Oh there they come, thank you. Patrick: Shower. Kat: All right. I already answered these same questions to two or three clients earlier today when I was answering my client audios, so I'm prepared and I'm ready. Here's the thing right, money, money is just a decision and a choice right? Like yesterday I bought a new car, I'm also getting a new house and a few other things all at once. It is a big deal, I'm excited to get the car, I feel good about it. Yeah, there's some ego attached to it for sure because I feel like yeah, look at my badass car, but at the same time I don't need that in order to be happy or fulfilled right, I'm detached from it. When they didn't give me exactly what I wanted at the dealership I just left. I wasn't doing that as a strategy, I was like okay, I'm not attached, this is what I want, if you can't give it to me I'm leaving. I got in the car and drove away and of course, they called me eight minutes later and gave me what I wanted. Patrick: Sorry guys. Kat: Either way I [crosstalk 00:50:40] Patrick: I used to be one. Kat: But, yeah, you know how it works. I [inaudible 00:50:45] I'm leaving. And I literally was about to sign and then I just put the pen down, I'm like look I've got to go. I'm going to go see the house, I left. What I'm trying to say though is, I don't need the car, I'm not emotionally attached to the car in order to feel good enough, in order to feel worthy, in order to feel like I'm now complete and whole. The thing that fills you up and lights you up and gives you your sense of freedom and completeness and your happiness, your source of all things is being true to yourself and doing your art right? So then for the money, to me the car is the same sort of thing, whether it's a car, whether it's do I want to buy the fancy Voss water, whatever it is. It's just a decision, so I can choose the car or not choose the car, either way I'm whole and I'm complete, but am I going to choose the car, yeah it's fucking badass, it's a hot, sexy car. I'm going to choose the car because I like it and I can have it. Kat: Same as with money. Get out of the idea that there needs to be an emotional attachment around money, it's only money. Choose it or don't choose it, it's infinitely available. Like you can choose am I going to wear pants or a skirt today, it doesn't matter, why get emotionally attached to it, but it's always available. That's how I feel about money. One of the courses a I made in 2014 when I first figured this out for myself was called, "It's only money honey." I called the course, "It's only money honey," one of the best courses I've ever made, because it was like a slap in the face wake up call where I suddenly realised, fuck, I've been making it this really emotional thing. Like am I good enough for money, am I worthy for money. Imagine we did this right, like am I good enough for the Voss water, am I worthy of this, what are people going to think of me? Does this add to my value if I have this amazing water? Either just pick it up off the shelf or don't. It doesn't matter. Kat: And so that was like a breakthrough for me to go oh shit, money is just a decision, decide how much you want. Expect it the same way if you're in a restaurant and you put your order in, you know I'll have a steak and broccoli, you expect it, you assume it's going to turn up. You don't go into the kitchen and be like, am I good enough for this? Do you guys think I'm worthy of the steak, can I really have that? Is it being prepared and will I get it? You just order your fucking meal and then you sit down and you wait for it and you expect that it's going to show up. Then meanwhile you're in the now, being present with whoever you're with. Kat: Same with money, decide it. It's a decision. When you get out of the emotional attachment around money being a reflection of your worth or being something that's going to save you, then you'll realise that it's just something you decide. But you fret now, you think that money would make you more worthy or it's going to save you or it will fill you up or it will make you happy. Or you'll be, yeah, safer in some way or a better person in some way. Then you'll continue to keep it at arm's length because you're trying to validate yourself and you're trying to find your safety and security from something outside of you, which is not possible. Kat: The lesson is you need to decide ... Did I just get invited to go to a cruise? Somebody's just invited me to go on their birthday cruise and I don't even know this person. I'm just magnetic as fuck. Patrick: It's your most active follower it looks like. Kat: I don't even know who that is. Hi, [Taveda 00:54:01] I can't, I can't go. I've got something on, but thank you. Kat: So, yeah, it's about realising it's a decision. If artists are out there and they're broke, maybe they're buying into the broke artist story, but maybe, maybe, and probably, they're in some way basing their self-worth on their financial situation and/or thinking to themselves that if I just had that money, then I'd be safe. Then I'd be good enough, then I'd be a worthy or a valid person. It's the same as love. You'll never find love when you think oh that person is going to make me feel like then I'm good enough, then I'm worthy, then I'm attractive, then I'm whatever. Kat: You got to figure that shit out right, like otherwise you'll just continue to hold that deep connection at arm's bay. When you realise you've already got everything inside of you and of course you can choose the money because abundance is infinite. Or of course you can choose to receive love because it is available. Or of course you can choose to have the body you want or whatever and you don't need it, well like you can need it and not need it at the same time, we've talked about that. But either way, you already get your completeness inside of yourself. Kat: Does that make sense? Did I just ramble in 49 different directions at once? Patrick: Pretty much, but I'm feeling it, I'm catching it. So, you're saying then somebody who is a starving artist, they're buying into it, which that makes sense to me. There's a lot of things that people out here buy into because that's just what people say. You know, oh you're a starving artist. Oh, you're not going to make any money. That's what they say, but how much of this shit is rooted in fact, it's just something that somebody said. You know, there's a lot of shit like that that's out there, but you have to, you know, you can't cuss if you want to make money online. You know, there's a huge one right- Kat: Really? Fuck, that's rude. Patrick: Yeah, how rude. There's all these things that they say. You have to, what else do they say, you know, you already have to have made this much amount of money before you can make any money online. You can't help anybody unless you've hit this, unless you've achieved these goals. You know, you have to have a book. All sorts of crazy shit that's just not true, but people will buy into. There's so many limitations being sold to everybody out here and they're constantly buying into them. I see what you're saying about that, it makes sense because if they're thinking that I'm an artist and I'm not making money or that I'm just going to be an artist, I'm not making money that's fine because that's just what it is. Patrick: Yet, you're on here, I'm on here and we're doing it. There, you in the back. Kat: I have a question. My question is do you think that sometimes artists/entrepreneurs, that there's ego attached to being the starving artist? Like there's an element of look at me suffer? It's almost like a badge of honour that I'm the starving artist, do you think that sometimes people are toting themselves back to that? Patrick: I'm doing it. I'm doing it. You know you get in this thing where you're like, I mean I've seen people do this too, and I do this, I'm guilty. I like the story okay, I like the story. I could have, I mean I'm sure if I opened myself up for it more and just said that it's going to be super easy and that it's just going to happen and everything's going to come to me. I'm just going to go in the superflow and do what you said and just go all in on this thing and have it happen. It's just going to boom, the doors are wide open. Patrick: When I did my first programme I sold a bunch of my first programme right. For me that was a lot to sell as much as I did. That was not even fully half assing it, that was like 10% of what I could have really done, of me going all in because I'm running like two businesses right now. There's the story that if I just got away from this one thing, it would just go so much fucking easier and everything would just happen you know. Instead, I'm choosing to build the story and now I'm going to be able to have the little ego and look back on this thing and be like, I struggled so hard when is first started out and you can go track it. Patrick: I've got that in my head, that's programmed in my head from something I've learned from somebody else. You know that you got to step your way up. You work your way up if you want to get there, you can't just [inaudible 00:58:29] you got to work your way up. So, I feel [crosstalk 00:58:33] that same way, I get- Kat: It's so interesting because ... Patrick: Go ahead. Kat: No you go ahead. Patrick: No, my train of thought just ... Just took a shit. Kat: Well, here's the truth right. I am proud of myself, I have ego and pride, not, I don't mean I shouldn't have, but there is, for me there is ego attached to I know what I fucking went through to build this business. I do feel maybe a bit superior about the fact that I know full well that most people would not do what I did and that they will not choose to be tough enough. I like feeling like I'm the one who can get knocked down again and again and again and look at me bitches, I'm still getting back up again. It relates a lot to all my fitness stuff and like I always wanted to be the most badass hardcore chick in the gym and I would definitely get triggered if I saw another chick who was training harder than me. Then it would bring me up to speed right, I would then become friends with them. Then it would be like it's on. Kat: In business, I definitely have pride that comes from yeah, I did go through so much fucking shit and I just kept getting up and every time I felt like I was on the floor and I couldn't get up again, it was that thing of are you dead yet though? No, then keep going. I do like it, I get off on it. Patrick: There you go. Kat: You know, you said this earlier on in the call, you said to me what we had spoken about on the phone the other night, about how I said to you I've gotten a little bored because the truth is I had my, I think I told you this, I told my private clients. I'm sure I told you this on the phone, I had my biggest income month ever last month in May. I haven't even published it or anything, well I told my private clients about it and I did a livestream talking about the mindset of that. But it was my biggest income month ever and it was like I feel proud of it. I feel likes that's cool, but did I get a rush from it, did I get an adrenaline kick, no. To be honest, and I know what I'm going to say now is going to make a lot of people want to throw shit at me, if you're going to throw shit I like Guylian Seashell Chocolates or Chanel, you can throw Chanel. Patrick: Or Vegemite. Throw [crosstalk 01:00:52] poo. Kat: But, it's very [crosstalk 01:00:52]. I got that all sorted already. Patrick: Fling a little poo. Kat: I just, it's easy for me to make money online and I mean look, it doesn't mean I can't relate to and resonate with where people are at in their journey and their struggle. It hasn't been that long ago where was over 100K debt, struggling and that went on for a long time. I know how to break through that and that's how I support my clients, but it's not a rush for me to, like even if I do a launch that would make an insane amount of money, I would be like that's awesome, but also, I just expect it. I'm not doing to get an adrenaline rush from it in the same way that if I cook an amazing steak, and I do cook an amazing steak, I'm not going to be like oh my God, I can't believe it, this is the biggest rush ever. I mean of course it tastes fucking amazing, I know how to cook steak. Of course the launch made that much money, I know how to make money online. Kat: What we had spoken about and this relates to what I'm saying here is, well where do I get my rush from now. Where do I get my adrenaline from because I am that person. It wasn't just that I was proud of myself for getting up again and again every time I got knocked down, it's that I do get off on it. I enjoy it, I like being like, you know, put through, I like the pain. I like purposeful pain and I feel so alive. Like the training session which I spoke about, which I did this morning was the hardest I've gone. I had to ease back into it obviously with my training after my surgery, but so today was the hardest that I've gone since then. I was dying and then within a second of it being over, or anytime I felt more knocked around, I'm smiling at the same time. I'm like this is so fucking good, it's fucking amazing. I crave that, I want it. Patrick: And you desire it because at this stage in the game you know that all these rules are bullshit. The fact that you have to, I had only $30 in my account when I started out, to get customers, to get clients, to get your soulmate clients is bullshit. You would be able to attract them without that fucking story. You know? You don't need, that story doesn't [crosstalk 01:03:05] Kat: Totally. Patrick: I don't think it brings people, I don't [crosstalk 01:03:07]- Kat: Right. And I don't even tell my [crosstalk 01:03:09] yeah. Even I told you parts of my story like when we were on the phone the other night and you didn't even know some of it because I just don't talk about it that much. I have and I do if I get interviewed and stuff, but I don't use that for my marketing. I use my art for my marketing. I just use self-expression for my marketing. Like you said, I don't need the fucking story, but what I do need is, I need to feel lit up, alive. Maybe you're right that yesterday I created resistance to knock me around and make me feel shitty so that today I could then create the contrast and today I'm on fire. Kat: There's more to it than that, like I think, yeah, I do think sometimes for people who haven't broken through on money yet. Or if you've experienced this, if you're a person who can make a little money and then you're like, yeah I'm riding high. Then it just disappears again and you crash up and down, I know a lot of people do that. I did that for years, I would make quite a lot of money and then I'd be like, where is it? Why am I broke again? What's happening? I did that roller coaster for years. Kat: I finally cracked that quota, I figured it out and I teach my clients this all the time. Because I was addicted to the ego and the adrenaline of when your back's against the wall and you don't know if you're even going to be able to buy food that day or God forbid even coffee. Then you just, like a magician, you pull a rabbit out of a hat because you're forced to, you're so back against the wall and you're going to lose, then you just make magic. You're smashing through and you create and you save yourself, but actually w

Is the blockchain more than bitcoin? Can the publishing space be taken out of the hands of banks and billionaires? Can local journalists band together to make the change? This week, Paul and Rich sit down with Maria Bustillos to discuss the future of the news on her new blockchain-powered publication, Popula. Blockchain Fever: This week Paul Ford and Rich Ziade sit down with Maria Bustillos to talk to about Popula— a blockchain based publication on news and culture. We chat about what it means to publish journalism on Civil: Self-Sustaining Journalism, honouring archives, the power behind direct and transparent news, and how Popula is working to address the problems that centralized banks have caused the world. Rich and Paul also try to write a song, titled Blockchain Fever!    5:05 — Paul: “The internet exists because people took a piece of technology and an idea into their heart, and couldn’t leave it alone until it manifested…and I can see that happening with bitcoin.” 5:34 — Maria: “Blockchain technology isn’t the answer, but it’s the paper that you can write the answer on.” 7:55 — Maria: “Journalism has a lot of problems: in its funding model, in its deteriorating archives, in the vulnerability to billionaires who don’t like what we write. …And all these things can be addressed using blockchain technology.” 9:37 —  Maria: “Whenever we publish anything on Popula, a text version of it will be published to the Ethereum blockchain, and it cannot be altered. Ever.” 12:00 —  Maria: “It protects again Peter Thiel, it protects against linkrot, it protects against the degradation of search engines.”  16:00 —  Paul: “So local journalists are banding together and they are going to publish using these blockchain technologies on Civil. So does this get rid of the quixotic billionaire who funds the news?” 24:54 — Maria: “We know it’s anti-bank, it’s anti-central bank, that it’s anti the dilution of currency. These are significant problems. They’re serious problems. There’s nothing bullshit about this. It’s not about instantaneous wealth, it’s not specifically anti-government either. It’s about addressing the problems that centralized banks have caused the world.” 25:28 — Rich: “So this is a statement. Can you build economies and startups on a statement?” A full transcript of this episode is available. LINKS Maria Bustillos on Twitter Popula Civil Peter Thiel bidding on Gawker Wayback Machine Microfiche Ethereum Vitalik Buterin Satoshi Nakamoto The Winkelvoss Twins Track Changes is the weekly technology and culture podcast from Postlight, hosted by Paul Ford and Rich Ziade. Production, show notes and transcripts by EDITAUDIO. Podcast logo and design by Will Denton of Postlight.    

Liz:How are you feeling today? Maria:Oh, much better. Thanks so much for taking care of me. The soup you made, and the medicine you bought me really helped. Liz: I'm glad. Maria: Are you working today? Liz: Yes, unfortunately. Maria: What do you mean? Liz: Well, I'm having some problems with the lady I work with. Maria: Oh yeh? What's going on? Liz: Well, I have to do my work, and some of hers, and she's started to leave early. Maria: It sounds like you need to talk to the boss. Liz: Yes, I do. I'll do it today.   //