Podcasts about marketoonist

Tom Fishburne is the founder of Marketoonist, a bootstrapped marketing cartoon business he started in 2010. He started drawing and sharing cartoons in 2002, and it took him 8 years to make the leap, despite having a successful career in marketing. 15 years later, Tom is still going strong, with the business making money from cartoon licensing, speaking gigs, brand deals, his book and more.Listen to the extended version of the show here: https://indiebites.com/membership/Timestamps00:00 - Intro01:23 - Moving to Czech Republic out of college02:16 - From Czech Republic to MBA03:19 - Starting cartooning04:03 - Tom's first client04:37 - Imposter syndrome05:20 - Pricing too low06:01 - Making the leap to full time07:08 - The terrifying moment of taking the leap08:08 - How Tom executed on his plan as a full time cartoonist?09:20 - Marketoonist revenue breakdown10:45 - Why Tom still does client work12:45 - Dealing with sh*tty clients13:55- Dealing with AI and competition15:55 - RecommendationsRecommendationsBook - Orbiting the Giant HairballPodcast - Fly On The WallIndie Hacker - David HieattMy linksTwitterIndie Bites TwitterIndie Bites YouTubeJoin the membershipPersonal Website2 Hour Podcast CourseSponsor - EmailOctopus

This week we deliberately trapped ourselves in a cartoon like the dude from A-Ha in order to cross paths with marketing's MirthMaster 3000, Tom Fishburne aka The Marketoonist. Apart from your CEO accidentally getting trapped in his own futuristic private bathroom over the bank holiday weekend, the funniest stuff in marketing usually comes from Tom's brain. The comic genius behind The Marketoonist, Tom has been skewering this highly skewerable business for years – giving a reassuring chuckle to millions of marketers along the way. As well as being a famous side-splitter he's also an expert eye-opener, with his Marketoonist agency having persuaded mega brands like Google, Microsoft and even LinkedIn of the value of having (and giving) a laugh. And, in his bid to remove the ‘po' from the face of marketing, he also shares his wit and wisdom as one of the industry's most in-demand keynote speakers. This episode is dedicated to David and Claire Hyatt from Wales, as without these two Tom's cartooning may never have transitioned from hobby to work.  ///// Follow Tom on LinkedIn. Tom Fishburne's website here. The Marketoonist website here. Timestamps: 02:14 - Quick Fire Questions with Tom Fishburne 03:21 - Tom's Career Journey: From English Major to Cartoonist 07:00 - Early Influences and Inspirations 08:42 - Observations and Humour in Prague 10:09 - First Office Cartoons and Their Impact 13:49 - Humour in Marketing and Business 17:55 - Finding Material for Cartoons 19:06 - The Role of Humour in Serious Topics 23:21 - Can Any Brand Embrace Humour? 25:18 - Humour During the COVID-19 Pandemic 27:50 - Variety of Brands Tom Has Worked With 29:54 - Consistency of Human Nature in Humour 30:41 - Listener Questions: Balancing Satirical Humour 33:28 - Digital Transformation and Industry Jargon 35:07 - Listener Questions: AI and Humour 38:07 - Listener Questions: Humour Category at Cannes 39:38 - Listener Questions: AI vs. Human Comedians 42:26 - Four Pertinent Poses: Advice to Younger Self 43:23 - Four Pertinent Poses: Banish One Thing from the Industry Tom's Book Recommendations are:  Orbiting the Giant Hairball – Gordon MacKenzie  School is Hell – Matt Groening  /////

On this episode of Looking Outside, we're exploring the role of humor in business. Whether it's silly doodles, clever cartoons, or gentle jokes, giving and having the permission to laugh at ourselves, at our industry, and at our field of expertise can elevate corporate culture. Sharing how he does this every day, with over 200 corporate clients, is world-leading marketing cartoonist, Marketoonist and author of Your Ad Ignored Here, Tom Fishburne. Tom shares how provoking a laugh, and encouraging people to not take themselves too seriously in business, sets a new tone for corporate culture that elevates how people work together. ----------More:Looking Outside podcast www.looking-outside.comTomFishburn.com & on LinkedInMarketoonist.comTom's book Your Ad Ignored HereTom's podcast on Uncensored CMO at Cannes 2024Tom's TEDX Talk The Power of Laughing at Ourselves at WorkConnect with host, Jo Lepore----------⭐ Follow, like and rate the show - it makes a difference!----------Looking Outside is a podcast exploring fresh perspectives of familiar topics. Hosted by its creator, futurist and marketer, Jo Lepore. New episodes every 2 weeks. Never the same topic.All views are that of the host and guests and don't necessarily reflect those of their employers. Copyright 2024. Theme song by Azteca X.

In this episode I speak with Tom Fishburne, better known as the Marketoonist. Tom likes to poke fun at our industry through his entertaining cartoons saying what we're all thinking. We recently had him join as as our cartoonist in residence at Cannes Lions, where he shared his experience through a cartoon each day. We also discuss some of Tom's greatest cartoons and why humour is good for business.Timestamps00:00 - Start01:16 - How Tom Fishburne became a cartoonist05:00 - Why is humour so important in the workplace06:29 - Going full time as the Marketoonist12:42 - Humour in the creative process19:21 - Outdoor ads22:30 - Discussing some of the Marketoonist's greatest hits23:17 - IoT cartoon26:59 - Customer funnel cartoon33:05 - Shiny new things cartoon34:13 - Covid Cartoon36:32 - AI cartoon39:44 - The Marketoonist at Cannes42:37 - Day 1 Cannes cartoon45:39 - Day 2 Cannes cartoon49:31 - Day 3 Cannes cartoon53:46 - Day 4 Cannes cartoon54:25 - Day 5 Cannes cartoon57:59 - Jon's own podcast cartoon

The Mindless Marketer Series is back. The second episode of the series, Marc Binkley & Vassilis Douros of the Sleeping Barber Podcast, covers hot marketing topics of today. We switched things up in the episode, where this time we selected three marketing topics drawing inspiration from Tom Fishburne's Marketoonist, while we introduced a new segment that we hope you enjoy! 00:00 - Introduction01:19 - Convince Your C-Suite: The Real Impact of Creativity07:30 - The Evolution and Challenges of the CMO Role11:47 - The Creative Brief11:50 - Data-Driven Marketing: A Double-Edged Sword17:50 - NEW SEGMENT - This or That!18:45 - Campaign Pre-testing26:13 - Does Creative Inform Media, or Media Inform Creative33:03 - Differentiation vs. DistinctivenessGet in touch with the hosts:Marc Binkley: ⁠⁠https://www.linkedin.com/in/marcbinkley/Vassilis Douros: ⁠⁠https://www.linkedin.com/in/vassilisdouros/⁠Conor Byrne:https://www.linkedin.com/in/conorbyrne/Check out the Sleeping Barber Podcast here https://www.sleepingbarber.ca/Thanks to today's show sponsors: The Indie List and Diplomat, the global brand agency Get in touch about sponsorship or content partnerships, email EmailInstagram X YoutubeListen to all episodes here Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

We are back with our second episode of the Mindless Marketers with our friend of the podcast and fellow podcast host of That's What I Call Marketing, Conor Byrne. We switched things up in the episode, where this time we selected three marketing topics drawing inspiration from Tom Fishburne's Marketoonist, while we introduced a new segment that we hope you enjoy! Get in touch with the hosts: Marc Binkley: ⁠⁠https://www.linkedin.com/in/marcbinkley/ Vassilis Douros: ⁠⁠https://www.linkedin.com/in/vassilisdouros/⁠ Conor Byrne: https://www.linkedin.com/in/conorbyrne/ Timestamps: 00:00 - Introduction01:19 - Convince Your C-Suite: The Real Impact of Creativity07:30 - The Evolution and Challenges of the CMO Role11:47 - The Creative Brief11:50 - Data-Driven Marketing: A Double-Edged Sword17:50 - NEW SEGMENT - This or That!18:45 - Campaign Pre-testing26:13 - Does Creative Inform Media, or Media Inform Creative33:03 - Differentiation vs. Distinctiveness Where to Listen: Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/ca/podcast/the-sleeping-barber-a-business-and-marketing-podcast/id1609811324 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/4v0kaM350zEY7X2VBuyfrF?si=7083317d5afd488b ⁠⁠ Google Podcasts: https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9hbmNob3IuZm0vcy84MWVjYWJhNC9wb2RjYXN0L3Jzcw?sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwji_oSOopP-AhXnlo4IHTZKBgYQ9sEGegQIARAC Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@sleepingbarberpodcast © 2024 Sleeping Barber

We're thrilled to announce a new segment featuring a friend of the podcast and fellow podcast host of That's What I Call Marketing, Conor Byrne. This segment will delve into current marketing topics, drawing inspiration from Tom Fishburne's Marketoonist. For this segment, each host has chosen two sketches to discuss, sparking engaging dialogue. We see this as a fun way to tackle pressing issues that surface in our discipline. We hope you enjoy this new segment! Get in touch with the hosts: Marc Binkley: ⁠⁠https://www.linkedin.com/in/marcbinkley/ Vassilis Douros: ⁠⁠https://www.linkedin.com/in/vassilisdouros/⁠ Conor Byrne: https://www.linkedin.com/in/conorbyrne/ Timestamps: 00:00 Welcome to the Pilot: Introducing Mindless Marketers00:25 Diving Into the World of tom Fishburne and the Marketoonist,01:36 The Evolution and Challenges of the CMO Role07:54 AI in Marketing: Expectations vs. Reality11:50 Data-Driven Marketing: A Double-Edged Sword16:56 Navigating the Shift from Third-Party Cookies21:10 Rethinking Remarketing Strategies22:13 Scepticism and Realisations in Digital Marketing24:20 The Impact of Cutting Marketing Budgets31:37 Inside the Mind of a Consumer: Brand Perception39:08 Concluding Thoughts on Marketing Strategies Where to Listen: Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/ca/podcast/the-sleeping-barber-a-business-and-marketing-podcast/id1609811324 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/4v0kaM350zEY7X2VBuyfrF?si=7083317d5afd488b ⁠⁠ Google Podcasts: https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9hbmNob3IuZm0vcy84MWVjYWJhNC9wb2RjYXN0L3Jzcw?sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwji_oSOopP-AhXnlo4IHTZKBgYQ9sEGegQIARAC Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@sleepingbarberpodcast © 2024 Sleeping Barber

The Mindless Marketers is a new segment with the Sleeping Barber podcast. So today Vassilis Douros and Marc Binkley join me in a humorous exploration of some of todays hottest marketing topics with inspiration from the wonderful work of Tom Fishburne Founder and CEO of Marketoonist. We show and explain a selection of cartoons that we like and then debate topics like changes in marketing roles, the relevance of chief marketing officer (CMO) positions, and the efficiency of different marketing strategies. We discuss the challenges and misconceptions in the marketing industry, such as the reliance on data versus insight, the perception of marketing departments within organisations, and the shift towards prioritising first-party data due to cookie deprecation. The episode also touches on creative advertising, customer-centric approaches, and the importance of brand and product availability to consumers. Through a mix of personal anecdotes, industry insights, and discussing Toms cartoons, we delve into the complexities of marketing an industry we all love.00:00 Welcome to the Pilot: Introducing Mindless Marketers00:25 Diving Into the World of tom Fishburne and the Marketoonist,01:36 The Evolution and Challenges of the CMO Role07:54 AI in Marketing: Expectations vs. Reality11:50 Data-Driven Marketing: A Double-Edged Sword16:56 Navigating the Shift from Third-Party Cookies21:10 Rethinking Remarketing Strategies22:13 Scepticism and Realisations in Digital Marketing24:20 The Impact of Cutting Marketing Budgets31:37 Inside the Mind of a Consumer: Brand Perception39:08 Concluding Thoughts on Marketing StrategiesListen, Learn Lead with That's What I Call MarketingThanks to today's show sponsors: The Indie List and Diplomat, the global brand agency Get in touch about sponsorship or content partnerships, email EmailInstagram X YoutubeListen to all episodes here Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Quatro dores são muito frequentes em empresas que lidam com dados: (1) não sei (ou preciso entender) o comportamento dos meus clientes no digital; (2) preciso aumentar a conversão (ou participação) dos canais digitais; (3) me falta confiança nos dados ou tenho análises imprecisas; (4) preciso digitalizar a base e aumentar o engajamento no digital. Neste episódio, discutimos como lidar com cada uma delas. Livro "Métricas" de Martin Klubec: https://www.amazon.com.br/M%C3%A9tricas-Martin-Klubeck/dp/8575222988/. Tirinha do Marketoonist sobre falta de entendimento de dados: https://marketoonist.com/2019/11/kpi-overload.html. Com: Marcel Ghiraldini https://www.linkedin.com/in/marcelghiraldini, Chief Growth Officer da MATH Group, https://math.marketing. Apresentação: Cassio Politi https://www.linkedin.com/in/cassiopoliti/.

The one about nailing virtual events, the hype about ChatGPT and Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny - TG91 00:00:00 Introduction Here are your hosts, Roger and Pascal. 00:02:24 In the News A selection of announcements and news releases from the world of marketing and technology that caught our attention. 00:14:15 Content Spotlights ROGER: Show Your Work – Book by Austin Kleon: https://austinkleon.com/show-your-work/ PASCAL: Are Virtual Events Hurting Your Brand? By Shama Hyder, Founder and CEO of Zen Media for Inc.com: https://www.inc.com/shama-hyder/virtual-events-hurting-brand-what-should-know.html 00:29:48 Marketing Tech and Apps  ROGER & PASCAL both chose ChatGPT this week! https://openai.com/blog/chatgpt/ https://chat.openai.com/chat 00:40:37 This Week in History Our selection of historical events and anniversaries from the world of science, technology and popular culture. 00:48:48 Creator Shout Outs ROGER: Tom Fishburne, The Marketoonist: https://www.marketingweek.com/marketoonist-on-marketing-babble/ PASCAL: Moira Barnes, sales strategist and coach is hosting 12 Sales Tips in 12 Days - How to Sell in a Recession each weekday until Christmas to help you all sell smarter in 2023: https://www.linkedin.com/in/moirabarnes/ 00:53:09 Film Marketing INDIANA JONES AND THE DIAL OF DESTINY (2023) Director: James Mangold Writers: James Mangold, who co-wrote the script with Jez Butterworth and John-Henry Butterworth. Starring: Harrison Ford (of course!) John Rhys-Davies reprises his role as Sallah, and new cast members include Phoebe Waller-Bridge (Helena, Indy's God Daughter) Antonio Banderas, Shaunette Renée Wilson, Thomas Kretschmann,

In the latest episode of Marketing Week's podcast series, Tom Fishburne discusses the origin story of the Marketoonist, the birth of his artistic alter ego and why humour is an untapped opportunity for brands.

How do you convey those difficult messages? With humor and the Marketoonist! Founder and CEO of the Marketoonist, here today to share more on this episode of #TheKaraGoldinShow Enjoying this episode of #TheKaraGoldinShow? Let Kara know by clicking on the links below and sending her a quick shout-out on social or reach out to Kara Goldin directly at karagoldin@gmail.com Follow Kara Goldin on Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/karagoldin/ Follow Kara Goldin on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/karagoldin/ Follow Kara Goldin on Twitter: https://twitter.com/karagoldin Follow Kara Goldin on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KaraGoldin/ Check out our website to view show notes: https://karagoldin.com/podcast/242 List of links to resources mentioned in episode, suggested reading & social media handles: Check out Tom's cartoons and blog posts: https://marketoonist.com/ Follow Tom on Twitter: https://twitter.com/tomfishburne Connect with Tom on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tomfishburne/

Carl Richards of Behavior Gap joins me to talk about why it makes sense for him to sell his new book for $10,000.Talking Points The paradox of working in public every day The terror of going from 0 to 1 Using permission-less projects to get going The importance of noticing “tailwind” Turning flaws into features Using impostor syndrome as a compass Reacting to negative feedback about pricing How to decide whether to start a podcast Carl's BioCarl Richards is a Certified Financial Planner™ and creator of the Sketch Guy column, appearing weekly in The New York Times since 2010.Carl has also been featured on Marketplace Money, Oprah.com, and Forbes.com. In addition, Carl has become a frequent keynote speaker at financial planning conferences and visual learning events around the world.Through his simple sketches, Carl makes complex financial concepts easy to understand. His sketches also serve as the foundation for his two books, The One-Page Financial Plan: A Simple Way to Be Smart About Your Money and The Behavior Gap: Simple Ways to Stop Doing Dumb Things with Money (Portfolio/Penguin).His sketches have appeared in a solo show at the Kimball Art Center in Park City, Utah as well as other showings at Parsons School of Design in New York City, The Schulz Museum in Santa Rosa, California, and an exhibit at the Mansion House in London. His commissioned work is on display in businesses and educational institutions across the globe.Find Carl online here: https://behaviorgap.com https://behaviorgap.com/radio/ https://www.linkedin.com/in/thinkingcarl https://twitter.com/behaviorgap Transcript Of The Show[00:00:00] Jonathan: Hello, and welcome to ditching hourly. I'm Jonathan Stark. And today I'm joined by Carl Richards of behavior gap. Carl, welcome to the show.  [00:00:08] Carl: Thanks, Jonathan, super excited to talk to you.  [00:00:10] Jonathan: Same here. So before we get started for anyone who hasn't yet heard of you, could you give folks just quick background? [00:00:17] Carl: Yeah. So I it's crazy to let me think about how to do it quickly. So I. Was a financial advisor and that's not normally thought of as a creative job. But one day I found myself in immediate and I had a familiar experience that I finally realized. Going on. I was meeting with clients and I thought I was really good at communicating. [00:00:44] And these were really smart clown. My clients were really smart, successful people, and I was trying to explain a concept to them and I was just getting blank stares. Despite thinking that I was really good at this and knowing that these are smart people. So since they were smart people, it was clearly impact. [00:01:01] I remember who it was either a doctor and a technology sales rep, really technical sales rep. And I remember thinking that. This is bad, right? Like I'm doing the best I can. There's this concept they really need to understand, and I'm not getting it across. So out of a act of really desperation and I had never really done this before. [00:01:21] I didn't think of myself as a doodler. I didn't draw, I didn't do visual journal. Like I had done none of this. I'd never taken an art class in my life, but I don't have an act of desperation. I was like, there was a whiteboard in the office that I had never used and I jumped up and was like, no, like this. [00:01:35] And I drew. Like a couple of boxes and some arrows and some circles or something. And I remember the feeling in the room when the clients were like, oh, now I.  [00:01:46] Jonathan: Yeah.  [00:01:47] Carl: And I became a diff is my word. I like to use to that experience of taking something that was seemingly complex, whether it was or not, it doesn't matter, but seemingly complex and reducing it to something simple. [00:02:00] And so I started doing that publicly. I just, I started a little blog. This was years and years ago. My mom and my sister were the only ones that would read it. Like I found out later, my sister was lying. So it was really just the mom, but I kept doing it. And every time a question came up, every time I read something or somebody asked me a question or a client asked me a question, and at this point it was all about money investing and spending and budgeting. would answer the question and then I would try to, I would try to draw some simple sketch. And at this point, it was Sharpie and cardstock and if the Jitsu snap scanner.  [00:02:36] I did that for a while. I just kept putting them up on this little blog. And I did that for awhile. It was probably a year which is, seems like it happened pretty quick to be honest, I'm a year. [00:02:45] And then I got an email and there's a little bit of story that I'm leaning out, but not much. I got an email from the editor at the New York times saying, Hey, we love these women. Do it for us. And I knew enough to say yes and figure it out later. So  [00:03:01] Jonathan: Yeah.  [00:03:01] Carl: that started this column for the New York times that we did. [00:03:04] And again, I had no clue this would happen when I said yes, but we did that column ended up running weekly for 10 years, that led to the book. And then, maybe three or four years into that column, I kinda got bored. Just straight money. And expanded the definition of money and started doing things around creativity. [00:03:24] And we started thinking of it as a business life column. And so that expanded it to imposter syndrome and fear and doing public work and then. The two books and some speaking engagements. And I started getting asked to do speak at creative conferences, and I did an art show, a solo eight week art show and another one in London. [00:03:43] And all of it was a hundred percent by accident. And I couldn't ever believe that it happened so that's a little bit of the bio.  [00:03:51] Jonathan: Yeah, that's amazing. Yeah. I love the juxtaposition of certified financial planner and creator of the sketch guy column.  [00:03:57] It feels like  [00:03:59] Carl: super fun to  [00:03:59] Jonathan: interesting Venn diagram there. Okay, cool. So I'm glad you brought up the New York times thing. Cause I was going to ask you about that backstory and yeah. [00:04:09] Is there a piece that, so I would love to connect the dots if there are any dots to connect. Was it, because the listener is probably either blogging or something like that, YouTube channel, or they are thinking about starting one, maybe it's a mailing list. Maybe it's a podcast, but people who listen generally do some sort of. [00:04:29] You content creation and I have a I'll just quickly say short stories, not dissimilar. Where I was just, years ago, 2000, I don't even know five ish. I was blogging about a really niche topic for, I feel like I, I posted six posts in six weeks maybe. And a book publisher contacted me completely out of the way. [00:04:52] And I'm just curious if the New York times thing was completely out of the blue, or if you did anything to was there any, anything you did that actually led to that? Or was it pretty much out of the blue? [00:05:03] Carl: I wish I had something more, like I've been asked this question so many times, including my editor at the time, it was like, Hey, what would you tell? Wants to, and I was like, Ron, I've got nothing for you. The only thing I have. And this, unfortunately like this doesn't fit into the tips, tricks and tactics and hacks that everybody wants because we all want deeply. [00:05:24] We just want a tactic that we can follow it up. I think this, endless focus that I have on tactics and we all have on tactics is actually just a place to hide. [00:05:33] Jonathan: I agree. [00:05:34] Carl: but so I'm not gonna it would be cute to make up a story. But it really was the only thing I have is playing in traffic. Right, Like that, that, that was it. I didn't even know what SEO was like. I didn't I just kept doing the thing and I don't know why for some people doing the thing that you just can't not do. Like for some people that lead, that ends up being a quiet life of disappointment and desperation, and for other people. [00:06:05] Something hits and I wish I knew the answer to that. That's the question I've been thinking about for over a decade? Cause they're doing work in public doesn't guarantee that a book publisher is going to reach out to you. In fact, it's highly unlikely that they will, but I promise you, the only thing I have is I promise you, they won't, if you don't do it  [00:06:24] Jonathan: Yup. I'm actually glad. That you have a non-answer there because it is an answer it's stop worrying about that stuff. Keep playing in traffic, you know it, [00:06:32] Carl: yeah.  [00:06:33] That's all. I often want to be like we, I play a lot of, I think a lot about emphasis hugs versus punches in the nose and this feels like both it's like deeply empathetic look, brother, I get you. I understand. That this can be a lonely pursuit. You got a thing that's bothering you, and by bothering, like stirring within you and you can't stop doing it and you're going to do it publicly, you can do it. And I and stop worrying about all that other stuff. I didn't even know. I just did the work and sometimes it's going to work and sometimes it's not. And that's the big mystery for me.  [00:07:08] Jonathan: I'm a big fan of Seth Godin's approach of suggesting for people who just need a little bit more than what we're seeing right now. Just find the minimum viable audience for the present that you made. And it's so doable. It just feels so doable. Okay. We can move on. I just curious if I'm glad you, it was out of the blue basically, because I think that frees people actually to just focus on creating stuff, they want to create. [00:07:33] Carl: Gentlemen, before you move on, let me say it like that's that has not stopped. Like I don't have the same thing for the first book. Same thing for the second. Same thing for the book I'm working on now say it like it's, there is no master plan. And so I, yeah, I think to me, that's actually freeing, like you said, so I, Yeah. [00:07:53] it hasn't stopped. [00:07:54] I haven't come up with a formula since.  [00:07:57] Jonathan: okay. So let me, so let's go into that a little bit, because I do know for some things we're going to get into here you have at least one probably multiple daily practices. So it feels like you must have systems in place that Allow you to continue or not allow you to but support you in showing up every day. [00:08:16] Yeah, I can traffic. And this isn't really a show about systems, but I would just say to the person listening that, I don't, I wouldn't say I have a master plan. I don't know every step I'm going to take over the next three, even let's just say. Definitely three years, but I've got a rough goal for the kind of impact I want to have and who I want to help. [00:08:36] And I have a strategy to do that. And there's some systems in place that helped me show up every day and do it and, meet with great people like this, have them on the podcast. And there, there are, it's not that there are no tactics. It's just not worth worrying about the tactics. You just, have a goal, set up a system to support it and look it heads down and do the system. [00:08:55] Carl: Yeah. I The word that keeps coming to mind as you're talking is habits. Like I, I have a habit of noticing things in the world. I even have it. There's like a, I even joked, there's a face I make it's I call it the, her face huh. Like I have a habit of looking for that to happen a couple of times a day. [00:09:13] And then when it happens, I pull out my iPhone and see, this is the interesting piece. If you don't have a knife, if you don't have an iPhone, you can't do this. That's the places to hide. But I'm trying, I'm only going to tell you this, tell your listeners this, because I think it demonstrates like how simple it needs to be. [00:09:30] I mentioned that earlier cardstock Sharpie and Fujitsu, snap, scanner. I didn't have a flatbed scanner. There was no music playing there. So. [00:09:37] now it's like I noticed something in the world. I pull out my phone under notes. I have a folder called ideas. I take a note and if I'm moving, I'll just record on voice memo. [00:09:49] The note, then that folder, when it's time to put something into the world, I go to that folder. And I pull up the idea, like there's one in there from last there's one in there. Let me just do a real quick notes. There's Yeah. [00:10:03] there was one real, oh yeah. Re the idea of re-investing. Like I have a habit of, as soon as I feel better, like healthy, I'm energetic, I'll go make a big athletic goal. [00:10:14] And somebody [00:10:15] somebody was like what if you just reinvested that energy? So that's an idea that will go up on the podcast tomorrow. I go into the notes folder. There's an ideas folder. I pull it up. Oh, reinvest is there. When I do something with the idea of reinvest, I move it to another folder. [00:10:29] The folder is called used ideas. And that's the end of the, that's the end of the system.  [00:10:35] Jonathan: Yeah   [00:10:36] Carl: Yeah.  [00:10:36] there are habits and I think James Claire's work around process and systems are super smart. And I think that's the thing that sometimes I think there's a big difference between being creative and the process of making stuff.  [00:10:52] Jonathan: oh, that's a good point. [00:10:53] Carl: And I don't think of myself as creative, although I do now because I'm like, oh, actually it turns out being creative. Isn't some magic for some people. It is. And that's awesome. Like cool. But there's also a process of, and I call it making stuff on purpose. It's like stuff. It's not art. It's not, I it is, but there's no fancy feelings about it. [00:11:12] There's a big difference between being creative and sometimes they're the same thing, but just for people who don't feel like they're creative, you can create a system for making stuff. It's just like another widget. It's not a big deal. So anyway, yeah, I agree that there are systems, process and habits.  [00:11:27] Jonathan: Yep. Yep. And James has been on the show. So folks if you're interested, if you don't know who James Claire is, check out the podcast in his book, Atomico atomic habits. It's fabulous. So yeah, my, I do a daily mailing list and I just, when I have one of those ideas, same thing, probably talk face. I like that. [00:11:43] And I whip out the phone and I start a new Gmail message and I typed the idea or I say the idea and I just close it and it automatically saves on all my devices. It's instantly available everywhere.  [00:11:53] Carl: So good.  [00:11:54] Jonathan: Yeah, and it's just, it's the teeniest tiniest little spark will happen during the day. And I just know if I don't instantly grab it, I'm going to forget it. [00:12:01] 30 seconds later, kids come and say something, make gone all gone. But if you get into the habit of capturing those things, even if you don't have an answer, it's just an inspiration sometimes and or weird observation or paradox, if you don't capture that it is going to be gone. But when you do capture it, you get into the habit. [00:12:19] I sh I have like over 600 of these unreal. Ideas in this folder. And same thing if I don't have an idea for today, I just open up the folder and oh yeah, let's write about that  [00:12:29] Carl: can I just mention two things, one I've heard that like it's gone thing and I think that's true for, I don't know where the boundary conditions are on any of this stuff. I only want to mention this because maybe there's some listeners. Think a little differently about it. And I have finally I've noticed that the good stuff sticks. [00:12:49] I don't know where, again, I don't know the boundary condition of it. I don't know. So I've started to be a little less precious about the idea I got to capture it. I got to grab it. Because I find that the good stuff comes back and I don't, again, I don't know if that's just me or, Elizabeth Gilbert's thing at some point, if you don't let the idea out into the world that we'll find a new host. [00:13:09] I don't know. Is it three times? Is it one time? Is it, I don't know, but, so I've started to be just recently, I've developed a little less preciousness around oh, and I'll even find myself saying it to the idea. Hey right now, I'm driving brother. But if you're really good and you want me to be involved, could you come back? [00:13:26] Cause I think you're not nice. And I'd like to see you again, right? Like that kind of thing. And then the second thing I would mention is sorry, got what the second thing was, it was preciousness and then  [00:13:35] Jonathan: If it'll come back,  [00:13:36] Carl: it will come back. Exactly. Oh, this the not knowing the answer. I like it took me five years to finally get my editor convinced that point of the column was often the question. Cause there was always this, like this common refrain in journalists of so what what's the point here? And I would have to say the point is the question. And so I only mentioned that because I like, I wouldn't be scared. To share observations and create stuff that you don't know the answer to. [00:14:07] And you can be upfront about this. And I say this like almost every day on the podcast, I'm like, I don't know. I don't know, but I think it's interesting. And I probably, you, this is, I think we get hung up in this oh, where am I going to find ideas? And this is all the same thread. It's if you think something's interesting. [00:14:24] And again, it's just for me, if that her face, like I could be reading something. If I notice I have to pause and go back and read a sentence that's assigned to me where I'm like, oh, that's, there's something interesting. If you find something interesting, we live in such an inter it's such a connected world now that I promise, how, no matter how silly you think it is, there's something it's out there. [00:14:47] That's going to find it. Interesting. It's just a function of doing it long enough in a space where the signal gets clear. So I just wanted to mention that idea. You don't have to have the answers. In fact, I think it's far more. Gosh, far more honest and far more interesting to follow somebody on the exploration. [00:15:06] I think of the work I do really as like Shackleford journal. I don't know, it's not advice, but if you come this way, if you happen to find yourself on this trail, I found a spring here and it was interesting. It was nice to know that there's water and there's a tree around the corner that provides good shade. [00:15:23] I don't know if you, if it's good for you, but it was good for me. So that's the one thing I wanted to do.  [00:15:28] Jonathan: Yeah, I do like that. And I did notice that on the podcast where you're like this isn't advice, it's observation things I've observed and there's something, the thing I like about that is it removes the word should from any sentence you would ever write, because the word should always scares me. If that comes out of my mouth, I'm like, that's a little, yeah. Yeah. It's a Derek Sivers has a really. He is a very similar approach. I don't know if you're familiar with his stuff, but  [00:15:52] Carl: for sure.  [00:15:53] Jonathan: yeah, his, especially his new book or it's like how to live. And it's chapter after chapter of almost contradictory ways that you could run your life. [00:16:03] Some of them are completely contradictory, like one right after the other. And it's here's a bunch of ways you could do it.  [00:16:10] Carl: right.  [00:16:11] Jonathan: It's a fascinating approach. It's and maybe most fascinating. Yeah. How rare it is most books that you'd buy, self-help book would be like, here's what you do first get up at 4:00 AM, make your bet, like the classic stuff. [00:16:24] And it's yeah, I already read that. And that's not gonna work for me for whatever reason. Cool. All right. I have a feeling that we could talk for four hours.  [00:16:31] Carl: Right.  [00:16:32] Jonathan: This is great. Obviously if people want more of this kind of like talking about Karl's content, like the actual content go to behavior, gap.com and just start reading. [00:16:42] There's like loads and loads of great stuff there. But what I really the primary reason I reached out is, pricing podcast and you've got a new book coming out that has a pun intended novel pricing structure. Could you talk about that a little bit? Where'd that idea come well first, what is it? [00:16:59] And then where did that idea come from? Those sorts of things. [00:17:02] Carl: Yeah.  [00:17:03] Again, no grand scheme here. I I wanted to okay. So keep in mind. Let me just describe what it is first. So I do the sketches. I noticed years and years ago. I. Other people who gave financial advice for living. So this would range from CPAs attorneys, financial advisors, financial planners, private equity, venture capital, anybody who kind of deals with money and takes risk for a living started to ask for these images. [00:17:33] And they would I specifically remember the first time was like aye. You remember the guy's name? He said, Hey, could I, would you, could I have a print of one of these and would you sign it? And I was like, that is so silly. No. And he said I'll give you two twenty-five dollars for an unsigned one. [00:17:50] I'll give you a hundred dollars for a sign when I was like, give me the pen, so that was the first time. And I was like, oh, that's interesting. Again. I'm not very good at seeing the future, but I'm really good at noticing T well, I'm getting better at noticing tailwind. And so it was like, oh, that's interesting. [00:18:05] So we started selling like prints and that's that? That's where like the art show I did an eight week solo 50 piece show that sold out and I was like, Ooh. [00:18:14] Jonathan: Wow.  [00:18:15] Carl: it was tailwind. So there's this group of people who use. So this is like purpose art, and I've got lots of friends who are off. [00:18:23] They don't have that kind of an audience and this idea would not work unless you had that kind of an audience. So people give my first book, the behavior gap sold to those same people and they would give it away to their clients. So it's, so it's been years of me thinking like, oh, isn't that interesting? [00:18:43] These are tools. The sketches themselves. And then the writing that goes with the sketches are actual tools. We think of them as conversation grenades. I think I stole that from class. You throw them in a room and conversations break out and it's the exact kind of con it's supportive conversations for people to give financial advice for a living. [00:19:00] They, they're the exact kind of conversations these people want to be having. So with all of that, and in mind, I was like, wow, I should create a, I want to create Yeah. [00:19:08] I've got to tell you another part of this story. I got contacted by somebody who said. I get these kinds of phone calls every once in a while. [00:19:15] It's actually quite annoying, but they're like, look, do you own all the rights to your material? And I do. And it's been very intentional. And do you own the name bay area? Like I do. Would you sell the whole thing to us? [00:19:28] And I was like, for how much? And they threw out a number and I was like tomorrow. And it didn't work out, but it got me thinking, and again at NFTE has played into this too. All of these little things mashing together got me thinking, like, how could I ever release? And Bob Dylan selling his catalog for 600 million, like all of those things were in the past. And I was like could I sell a fractional piece of my library? [00:19:53] And so I was thinking through that and I was like who would I sell it to? And I could sell it to people who use it, not just enjoy it, but people would use it. And wouldn't it be interesting if those people thought of themselves as owners, not just customers. So all of that came together and I was like, all Right. [00:20:05] I want to create, and then Austin Cleveland's book the size of it, six by six, the map. [00:20:10] Soft cover matte finish, like all of that, all of it came together. It was like, okay, I'm going to do a coffee table book. That's eight by eight square soft cover, matte finish. And I'm going to make, I love playing with the juxtaposition of kind of Swiss grid and hand-drawn elements. I love that. It's it feels like a business suit with flip flops. [00:20:31] Like I just love playing around with that. And we, I love juxtaposition and I, we also have a fundamental concept here called permissionless project. So it was like, okay, how can I do this project that would involve no one else's permission, no gatekeeper and a publisher? No, nothing. [00:20:43] So that's what, that's how the present came about. And it's eight, eight by eight soft cover. It's 52. I took 52 sketches. We wrote up 52 essays. We got a really fine I feel like the subtitle of the book should be better than the New York times, because these are all things that have appeared. [00:21:00] Then they went through more editorial processes based on feeds. So it's 52 sketches, 52 essays. Each fold of the book is a sketch and an essay when we mixed them up a little bit on which side and how they're done. But each bolt of the book is self-contained sketch essay. And then I was like, all right, great. [00:21:15] What should I do with this? And I thought, okay, the people, the fractional ownership, the sell of the library and all that MFT, like all of that came together. And I was like, what if I only made this available to a hundred people?  [00:21:25] And each person will get a hundred. Signed and numbered. So I'm gonna, I'm literally calling the printer and saying I'm printing, I'm actually printing 11,000 because I want to keep a thousand as artist proofs for myself to give to friends. [00:21:37] But so 10 I'm ordering 10. That's the only print run. It will never be printed. And I, all of this is I get so excited about it. Cause it's all part of my ethos. Like a project that has a start, a finish. It's not gonna be around forever. Like I love calling the printer saying 10,000, like the first print run. [00:21:53] I'm like, no final. Only, never again. And then I'm gonna get this 10,000. I'm going to go sit in the printers place and sign one of 10,002 of them. That's going to take me a week. And then you get the book. A hundred copies of the book to give to your clients. Again, that's the part that you know, is relatively unique here. [00:22:13] A hundred copies of the book to give to your clients. You get the digital rights, the forever digital use rights for the 52 sketches in the 52 S. These people will use the people who will buy this will use it. These in social media, they'll use them in their client newsletter and they'll use them occasionally. [00:22:32] We've had people in Texas print them on a billboard. Yes, of course  [00:22:37] Jonathan: I thought I saw that. I thought it was, I thought it was like digital magic.  [00:22:41] Carl: Yeah no. That one, the one you saw probably was digital magic, but there is a real one and I just haven't been able to get a picture of it. So you can print them on a t-shirt. You can print them on a mug as long as you're not selling. To give to clients. So like you, we call it, do the, do whatever you want license. [00:22:55] So you get to do whatever you want. Licensed 52 sketches forever. Cool. Geez. How do you price that? What do you do? And so I knew enough for my art show because when I did the art show, I went, I literally read everything. I get my hands on and how to price art. And I don't know if you know this, but there's no manual.  [00:23:13] Jonathan: Yeah. I do know that. [00:23:15] Carl: Yeah. There's no, like I looked everywhere. There's no, like in my world you can price a comp a comparable ass. Of similar risk and similar reward. And you've known with the price in the art world. There's nothing. So the same thing with the book, I was like wait a second. This isn't really a book. It's 52 weeks of marketing. [00:23:34] It's all these other things. I was like I just picked a number and partially I was like, Okay. [00:23:38] you know what? I want to do something that scares me. And I've always wanted to do a million dollar book launch.  [00:23:43] And so we priced it at $10,000 a piece, a hundred people can buy. It's a million dollars. [00:23:48] We've actually made 20 slots available. That would include me coming to speak at your book, like at a book. [00:23:54] party. So those are 20,000. So it's actually, what is that? It's a hundred and it's a hundred. And if those all sell, it's a $1.2 million. [00:24:03] Jonathan: Amazing [00:24:03] Carl: And it's crazy, right? And I feel all those feelings of wait, who told you, you could do this. [00:24:08] I have a buddy is called imposter syndrome. And he shows up every time I do something cool. He comes every time I talk about like right now, I totally I'm like what? That's nuts. I can hear listeners being like what I'm scared to death. And that's part of the project.  [00:24:22] Jonathan: Yeah, imposter syndrome is a good sign. If imposter syndrome shows up, it means you're doing something interesting and new. Okay. So that's incredible. Very cool. Totally. I saw it and I was just like, oh, we have to talk about this. Has someone besides imposter syndrome shown up to throw rocks? [00:24:39] Carl: Oh, for sure. Yeah. I We've only recently started announcing, you saw one of the early announcements you probably saw. And talk  [00:24:45] Jonathan: Yeah, I think so.  [00:24:47] Carl: And Blair is a friend of mine and he's had something to do with this. I'll call him and be like, really? Am I doing it? And he's do you know the answer to this? [00:24:52] Yeah.  [00:24:52] I th I, I think I saw, I'm trying to spend less and less time on Twitter. I do use Twitter for a lot for broadcasting, but I'm trying not to do a lot of interacting with. I did see like people in my industry saying things like it's obviously a top that's a joke that will always say like the market's certainly frothy at this point, if Carl's doing this and then somebody else, the one that, and those are like, whatever, like it's certainly, it's not for you. [00:25:18] You clearly don't understand somebody else said oh, here's Carl playing a joke on all his loyal fans. And w I then explained to him what it was. It was like, no joke here. This is what, and he's oh, I didn't get that. It had the digital rights. So those things I'm like, it's not for you. [00:25:33] The one that I heard the most recently was somebody saying, I thought you were all about helping people. Why are you suddenly leaving everybody? Yeah. So that, and I can feel that and then say, and it's Okay. [00:25:48] for me to do a project like this. Yeah, [00:25:50] for sure. And I don't know if it'll work. We've already, pre-sold a bunch of them. [00:25:53] We opened up 21 early seats. Cause there were people who sent notes saying literally like I'm bringing a bag of cash to your door. And I was like, oh, okay. But I don't know if we'll get to, I don't even know if we'll get to 15. But I'm okay with that because next year we could sell 10 more and 10 more until all hundred go.  [00:26:12] Jonathan: right. [00:26:13] Carl: I don't know if it'll work is what I'm saying. I have no idea if that will work, but there's enough tailwind for me to try.  [00:26:19] Jonathan: Yeah, I love that. I actually wrote that down tailwind. That's your so you'd note you're noticing engine is very good. Where you'll notice this sort of puppy, dog face stuff, but then also like when something happens, it's not just like you move on to the next thing. It's whoa, there's the sort of after effect of motion happening here just really good detector. [00:26:40] Carl: We generally, we tried to systemize that a bit. Like I think of it as a system. Like we use early detection stuff, like Twitter's a great place to toss something out. And again, if you get no feedback, I actually, I don't use that as a, I don't use that as a sign. It's only if I get feedback that I'm like, oh, interesting. [00:26:59] Because no feedback, actually the sample size is so small that no matter what the feedback is, it's inconclusive. So the only thing I can ever say from it is oh, interesting. Like maybe I should try a little more of that. [00:27:13] Jonathan: Right. [00:27:13] Carl: And just it's just a slight tailwind at that point. [00:27:15] And then, but we try to we have systems now for like, where does the idea get tested first? Behavioral up radio is where it gets heard first. And then if it makes it out of behavior, I pray a little go here. And if it makes it go there, I'll go here. And eventually it'll end up in volume for right. [00:27:29] Cause that's part of it. That's the other thing I should tell you the book's name. We were like, what did we name the book? I was like Let's just call it volume one. So somebody on the team actually suggested volume one. I'm like we can't do that. Like my publisher would never like we don't have a, what was her, the design of the book jar then? [00:27:44] How cool is this? Like when we'd realized we didn't have to design for Amazon or the bookstore, all we had to design was for the moment. I just envisioning it. I'm doing it right now. Like a financial person, but it's advice giver has it in their hand and they hand it to a customer, a client that moment we could design the entire book cover for that moment. [00:28:07] Really cool. So that's some fun stuff.  [00:28:10] Jonathan: Huge. That's amazing. Yep. You're just so focused on what it's for. This is what it's for.  [00:28:17] Carl: Yep. And that circles back to your idea of throwing stones. I have tried to get really good, and I'm not very good at it, but I try so hard that it's not for them. So that's phrase like it's not for you. And so if there's anybody throwing stones, I understand and empathize and get it. [00:28:37] And there's a reasonable, if they're thoughtful, I treat them as gold because I can make the project better. But largely I would say. It must not either. I didn't communicate well enough or it's not for you.  [00:28:48] And both of those are within my power, which is really freeing to me because if I didn't communicate clearly that's on me. [00:28:55] And if it's not for you, there's nothing I can do. It's okay. We'll just move on. [00:28:59] Jonathan: right. Yeah. Not everyone gets the joke as they say so. Okay. So you just mentioned the behavior gap radio.  [00:29:06] Carl: Yeah.  [00:29:06] Jonathan: Let's talk about that a little bit because I am signed up to that. It's well, you can describe it. What's the  [00:29:12] Carl: Yeah.  [00:29:13] I think for your listeners, this may be the most important idea because obviously I, there was a whole bunch of caveats around that book, project. Make it unique. I had somebody tell me a good friend of mine said, Carl, you're an N of one for this project. I don't know anybody else who could do it cause you've got a market that needs it. [00:29:29] So I understand that. But there's a bunch of N of one projects for everybody listening has an N of one project, right? Like you're the only one that could do it. So don't let that be a place to hide. But behavior radio to me is a, so let me just describe how it happened. I was noticing things in the world. [00:29:47] And it was actually a challenge from Seth Goden. He, we were having breakfast and he said, Carl, why aren't you writing a daily blog? And I said, cause it's, he's unabashed about how powerful it's been for him. And I'm like I don't like to write. He's you like to talk. And so why don't you just record? [00:30:03] I'm like, oh my gosh, really? And this was before like the most recent like podcast craze.  [00:30:10] Jonathan: Yeah.  [00:30:11] Carl: So I just started recording. Initially the notes folder I described early on wasn't notes. It was audio files, just what do they call it? Voice memos. So I started recording voice memos and I was saving them on a Dropbox file folder and somebody on the team. [00:30:26] And when I say team there's three.  [00:30:28] Jonathan: Yeah.  [00:30:28] Carl: Somebody on the team pound. And then they're like, what are you? Do you mind if I, why don't we start a podcast? And I was like no, I don't want to, no, I can't all sorts of imposter syndrome. They're like Okay. [00:30:37] What if I just put them on SoundCloud? And we embed the player someplace. [00:30:42] And it was like, oh Yeah. [00:30:43] fine. And then the times ran across them and they were like, can we run them every once in a while? So they ran it around as well, but then they stopped. And so it was just us posting these things up and I'd get notes, emails from people saying, I love your podcast. And I'd be like, I don't have a podcast. [00:30:57] And they would say, I don't know what you call it, but would it, could you put it on iTunes so I can listen to it in the car? I'm like, all right. it. And but remember it was just part of my process. That's why I think everybody could do this. It's awesome. Cleanse work, show your work. So I just started recording these every day and sometimes I do six a day and sometimes I take days off. [00:31:22] Still have the six, like I've, I haven't missed a day for a very long time, except Sundays I take Sundays off in terms of publishing. And then the people that I was having a conversation with the folks at super cast and super cast is a paid subscriber based podcast system, which is amazing. You can go check it out. [00:31:38] And they were like, wait, you're doing this anyway. And so I decided I didn't care if anybody listens. And Seth says that this is the story I tell myself, at least I'm not sure it's true, but I try to tell myself I don't care if anybody would listened to it,  [00:31:49] I'm doing it anyway. It's the idea generation. [00:31:52] Seth says, it's the metacognition, right? It's thinking about your thinking and it's the exercise of that muscle, because like you said, you have hundreds of them sitting in there. Like I did too. Like I, people are like, when are you gonna run out ideas? And never as long as I keep exercising the muscle,  [00:32:06] Jonathan: right.  [00:32:06] Carl: so I'm doing It anyway. [00:32:08] So yeah, somebody was like what if you just made it a paid podcast? So I had this little items I want to do a little experiment. What if I told no one about it for awhile? I just put it up and all we did, so we didn't lean on my list. We didn't lean on the TA. Anybody else? Like we just, all we did was we posted about it on Twitter. We take little snippets, audio grams, post them on Twitter and Instagram. What if we did that? And I thought if I did that for a year and I made it $10 a month, would it, would I be happy or sad at the end of this? It was like, dude, there's no doubt. If I had no audience and I started doing that every day and I put it on Instagram and Twitter, that's all I did every day. [00:32:49] I took a snippet or I took the highlight. I wrote the highlight on Instagram and Twitter. I said, if you like this, you'd love my daily podcast. It's 10 bucks. Go here, sign up. If you did that everyday for a year, I would be willing to bet money that you would be happy. You did.  [00:33:06] Jonathan: Such a good way to put it  [00:33:07] Carl: Like it's I don't know how happy. I don't know why, but I guarantee you'd be happy.  [00:33:12] Jonathan: Here's the flip side of that because I agree with you, but let's just let the devil come in and advocate. So that's a lot of time to invest in something and I want to pay off Carl. I want it to pay off. I want my tea. I could use that. I could bill $200 for that hour or two every day. So I'm losing, whatever, 365 minus Sunday's times, at least a hundred. [00:33:37] Carl: Yeah, I don't buy it. So here's what I don't buy it. I see the point totally. And I think  [00:33:41] Jonathan: It's opportunity cost at least. [00:33:42] Carl: Yeah, I think it's a very good conversation. So number one, it doesn't take me an hour. It takes me about 15 minutes. So we got that. So I should describe it. Yeah. It's a daily podcast. [00:33:50] I was like, oh, I don't want to start a podcast. I don't wanna have guests. That's so much work. So we have I have another concept that I love called turn the flaw into the feature.  [00:33:58] So it started with the Sharpie, Right. [00:34:00] Like I downloaded that, believe me, I did, I downloaded the illustrator and tried to figure out how to use it and couldn't figure out how to use it. [00:34:05] So I was like, I'll just, okay, crap. I'll just have to use a Sharpie and cardstock and a Fujitsu, snap scanner. I did that. And a couple of years later, I hired a designer and I said, Hey, take this and turn it into a beautifully designed product. I put it out and everybody was like, why I love the Sharpie. So the flaw became the feature. [00:34:23] So in this case, behavioral operators, I was like, oh no podcasts have guests and they're long and they're thoughtful. I didn't have time for any of that. And I didn't want to do it. And I wasn't very good. So I was like, okay but I want to do one okay. What's the fly is, it's just me talking. So it's me talking between three and 12 minutes and I have no problem with it being three minutes. [00:34:43] In fact, I work really hard to make it three minutes. So it's me talking between three and 12. And now I've asked anybody want me to have guests do no, in fact, I just had somebody yesterday, send me a message saying your podcast fits perfectly into my time while I'm getting, like making my coffee. And I love it because I don't have to set aside a bunch of times. So the flaw has become a feature. So reasonable one, it doesn't take that much time. So if I was saying that to myself, I really want to do this, but it takes too much time. I would say. How could I do it in a way that didn't take much time? [00:35:18] Number two? I don't know what the value would be. So remember the value extraction. I'm always thinking value creation and value extraction. Value extraction doesn't have to be money value extraction could be thinking about my thinking. Seth claims you'd write his daily blog if nobody read it.  [00:35:34] Jonathan: I would do. I would, I'm terrified of stuffing my daily blog. I would never stop it because my brain would dry up. Like it's where all my ideas. So I've been thinking about this a lot lately and ideas. I don't make my ideas, pop into my head and have created the conditions. That cause a certain kind of idea to pop into my head. [00:35:59] So it's like these events are happening to me, but if I took away the conditions, the events would stop happening to me, even though they're happening in my head. They're like outside events. It's if I moved to, I don't know Afghanistan, or if I live in Providence, Rhode Island, different events are gonna happen to me and it's going to come. [00:36:18] Different actions. I'm going to have to make different decisions because outside events are, you can, are predictably different in those two places. And if I stopped doing my daily list, that'd be like moving my brain to a place where it would stop having these things happen to it. It's hard. I haven't figured out how to describe this very well but taking, yeah, go ahead. [00:36:40] Carl: are those things? Are those things creating value in other areas of your life?  [00:36:44] Jonathan: oh, a hundred percent. [00:36:46] Carl: Yeah, so that's that to me is the most interesting part, right? Wait, I don't want to do this thing cause it's gonna take an hour and I could have built a hundred dollars. Or 200 or 500, whatever the number is. [00:36:55] And that would be like saying, the New York times didn't pay me very well. If at all, how could I possibly calculate what it was worth to me?  [00:37:06] Jonathan: Yes. So there's the leap of faith and I've made that leap and it and there's a solid ground on the other side of the chasm. So the thing for the listener who doubts this yeah. I have to, yes, there is. I can give maybe a lead, even more specific question. It's really a question is why are you doing it in the first place? [00:37:27] So if you want to do it to make a million dollars, then don't do it. But if you want to do it because you want to do it, it seems like a fun way to spend your day instead of doing actual work or not. Even your whole day is spent 15 minutes. Then go ahead. It's like the, when I'm coaching someone and they're like, but how is this going to pay off? [00:37:47] And I'm like, I don't know, but I'm sure it's, like you said at the beginning, I'm sure if you don't do it, you're going to be stuck right. Where you are right now in two years, in five years in 10 years. [00:37:55] Carl: Yeah.  [00:37:56] That inability to draw a linear line between creation and capture. Is I think a real hangup for most of us. And I have gotten so comfortable with the idea because we live, we go deep down this hole, but if we live in a complex adaptive system and in complex adaptive systems, you can't draw linear straight lines between creation and capture. [00:38:17] You have to be comfortable. The idea that it's going to be a messy, everybody will tell you that. That's why you see so many of those little hand drawn things that look like balls of yard, right? You have a hockey stick and that's like the myth hockey stick up into the right. [00:38:30] It's the myth. And then you have the ball of yarn is the reality. Like I had no clue that this was going to happen. My entire career is a giant ball of yarn. I have no clue what's going to happen now. And I've now gotten to the point where that if I'm not in that condition, I think I just think of it as an irreducible uncertainty, right? [00:38:53] If I'm not living in uncertainty with extended breaks, Right. [00:38:56] Like time to rest and recover because uncertainty is, can be a little taxing, but if I'm not living in uncertainty, then I'm doing something wrong. So I love sess. Like it may not work. So I agree. Just go and see everybody. [00:39:11] I think everybody, who's honest about a creative career says this same thing,  [00:39:17] Jonathan: The argument you mean. [00:39:18] Carl: Yeah. Everybody who has a creative career, that's worked  [00:39:21] Jonathan: Oh, yeah, [00:39:22] Carl: and there, and if they're artists that, I just mean that by like self-aware of it, like it's not necessarily dishonest. I'm just.  [00:39:28] Jonathan: sure.  [00:39:29] Carl: They'll say I don't, I didn't know. [00:39:31] Like I, I had a plan, but mostly it's mostly it's this thing that you could not do. And we've all felt it. And most of us bury it, but if you're feeling it, like all I'm suggesting is damn, I call it dancing with dragons, like dance with a little bit.  [00:39:45] Jonathan: Yeah. Let it out. [00:39:46] Carl: Yeah. And find a forum. And now it's, I don't care if it's just to your neighborhood coffee shop or if it's on Twitter, like whatever, find a forum, let it out, play in public because I promise you if you do it consistently for a year, you won't be sad. [00:39:59] You did it. I don't know why you'll be happy, but I know you will be sad.  [00:40:03] Jonathan: Yeah. I hundred percent agree with that. I've just, I've got a lot of engineering mindset folks who. Who feels like they can predict the future in many ways. And when there's decreased amount of certain, about like building stuff software and so forth. So it's I know if I do this, then it's going to do that. [00:40:17] So it's tough to say to them, it's okay, but you gotta trust. You gotta let go and not know exactly how it's gonna play out. But you're right. If you show up for you. And you're doing something that's meaningful you in some way that you want to do, not just because you think there's a big payout at the end, because you want to do it. [00:40:35] You're not going to be sad that you did it. You're not, so it's so good. Okay. Is there more to talk about with the podcast, the daily podcast? Or could we jump over? If so then let's definitely do that. I'm also curious about the mailing list and we we, I guess we already did talk about selling the sketches. [00:40:53] I have a number of illustrators on the list and it's and they're struggling. It's like, how do I, how could I possibly, how can I sure it was in the bowl doing illustration without going on Upwork and just being told what to do by horrible client. [00:41:09] Carl: Yeah. Yeah. So I don't know, but let me wrap up the real Brady. I would just say the reason I like that as a topic for this audience is because everybody could do it. If you just took your process, And decided to do your work publicly. How did you pick that pen? Which app do you use? I know that's a little tactical, but it's I tried, like just so many of us are convinced we don't have anything to say and I just would beg you to believe me, like that's classic imposter syndrome thinking. [00:41:36] Yeah. Because it's become easier. Second nature for you. Both of those in air quotes, it's become easier. Second nature for you. You think it's easier. Second nature for everyone else. And if it's easy and second nature for everyone else, it must not be valuable because it's common. It turns out it's not, none of those things are true. [00:41:54] You've just forgotten. Like I always in my audience, I always tell him, like you forgotten that most people in the world don't know what standard deviation means. Megan, you throw it around, like it's like a normal term. So that's w B area, the podcast, everybody could just start doing that and you look, it doesn't have to be a paid podcast just anyway. [00:42:13] So that was allied wrap that up the illustration thing. I don't know. I have I have a unique tailwind because these are it's purpose art. But there's a lot of it going on, I see really good friend of mine that does he does. He does marketing cartoons, the Marketoonist Tom fish, board marketing. [00:42:29] Marketoonist like he does marketing opportunities.  [00:42:32] Jonathan: Huh?  [00:42:33] Carl: Illustrations around. So I think that maybe it's just look, somebody came up, asked me if they could have one on the wall. I said, sure. And they paid me for it. And then we started now we sell digital downloads for a hundred dollars a piece. [00:42:48] You get the high res file and the forever do whatever you want. Licensed is what we call it. And now who's going to pay a hundred dollars. Like the people who pay the a hundred dollars for these are people who typically it's not, I have a few sketches that people hang on their walls in their house. [00:43:04] Like one, maybe I'm the only one. My wife would allow it, our house. But the rest are like in the office. They're they serve a purpose.  [00:43:12] Jonathan: Right. [00:43:13] Carl: I don't know outside of that, except that I've watched some people do. And it's always the same. The formula is always the same. It's like play in traffic, do a lot of it. [00:43:22] And then find interesting ways. There's so many interesting illustrators Right. [00:43:26] now on Instagram getting paid for all the standard ways, like a notebook, a print, a t-shirt and then. Digital rights to it. I've followed. I have a collection of those people. Cause I just love because they're permissionless, right? [00:43:41] Like nobody there's no gallery owner. There's no, like they're direct to the people in Kevin Kelly's standard thousand true fans approach. So that's all I really got on that. I don't really know how to be helpful there. [00:43:54] Jonathan: I think that was pretty helpful. And again, it's it's like a bunch of things that we've said, I think all would contribute into observations that might work for the illustrators in the audience. It's, there's not a million.  [00:44:08] Carl: Yeah.  [00:44:08] Jonathan: it's, there's just not, you don't have to worry as much about all of that stuff that you might be worrying about. [00:44:12] And I just, I do love the working in public or playing in traffic and paying attention to what's meaningful to people, but there's, there is also the thing of like I started doing a Sunday comic and I love it. It's super fun. Is anything going to happen from it? Not, no, I don't think so. [00:44:31] It's just another way to communicate the ideas that I read about it. And it breaks up the, cause I do even Sundays. Seven days a week, I'm putting stuff out. So it breaks it up for me. And it's a different way to communicate hard ideas in a funny way. So I dunno maybe something will happen, but it's just fun. [00:44:52] Carl: as I'm listening to Jonathan, I'm thinking like I've actually had this conversation probably a hundred times with people. So I do like here's, what I would do is I would find one person that would buy something. Going from zero to one is, I don't know, 60, 70, 80% of the way.  [00:45:08] Jonathan: Yeah.  [00:45:08] Carl: And it, because it's all the fears, they're all the tactical places to hide, but what is it? [00:45:13] So I don't care what it is. Like I just worked with somebody here locally that loves to draw zombie sort of drawings, which I'm just not into it. I have no interest in, but I love this person because they're way into it. Like I'm thinking agnostic. I just am super stoked when you have a thing. And his thing is he draws these zombie things. I'm like, what are, these would be super cool is a skateboard deck.  [00:45:34] Go would do, would you do me a favor? Just go by one blank screen, draw one and put it up for sale for 50 bucks and just see Hey, made this thing. I hope you like it. Classic stuff. [00:45:48] Like I do that in public and S and if you don't have it, anybody in public listening, do you send an email to 10 people?  [00:45:57] Jonathan: Yeah.  [00:45:57] Carl: I made this thing. Okay. How about stickers? I made a pack of five stickers. People seem to find my my sketches, a little humorous and light-hearted and it makes me feel good. [00:46:05] So I made a packet of five stickers. They're $12. Like we could okay. Make a mug, do a t-shirt do it. Like we could riff all day. Hang on what the thing is, but the what matters is the zero to one. Can you get somebody to buy it? Can you get one person?  [00:46:20] Jonathan: Yeah, I'm chuckling because of the terror of doing that first skateboard. I just it's just so classic. [00:46:27] Carl: Sure. And he hasn't done it yet. And I'm literally I actually went out and bought this kid he's well, he's 20 he's 24. He's an amazing, like one of the best artists I've ever seen, but no one knows it.  [00:46:38] And I actually went out and bought his domain, his name as a domain was available. So I bought it and I told him, you either start putting stuff up on this. [00:46:47] We're 60 days from now, I'm going to start putting stuff up drawn with my left hand in your name. He's and only because I'm trying to force the issue cause I care about him. But Yeah. it's super scary and I think that's why we all go try to find a million places to hide no cell one thing. [00:47:06] Jonathan: Yeah. Yeah.  [00:47:07] Carl: one thing there's nothing left to hide.  [00:47:09] Jonathan: Yep, totally. And there's so many people in my audience who just sold their time. They've never really sold anything. They're just renting themselves out or they have a job without a boss or benefits and they've never priced anything. They've never put a price for something. On a thing and said, this is 50 bucks period, and yeah. [00:47:30] Carl: Can I riff on that for just a  [00:47:31] Jonathan: yeah.  [00:47:32] Carl: I think there's a reason that's so scary and it's it please. I'm like trying to be massive. I'll actually probably get emotional about it because you, excuse me. When you create something like that, you are literally putting yourself up for judgment, Right. You're taking it's. I think It's the most intimate. I have spent my life studying risk and risk-taking I back country ski and I'm involved with lots of venture capitalists and private. like, I know a lot about risk. I cannot think of a more intimate form of risks. Then, what we're talking about here is because you're literally saying, and I always think of this. [00:48:08] When I hear Seth say this, say here, I made this, I hope you like it. I think of holding something in my hands and extending my arms to somebody else and saying here, Jonathan, I made this. And then the words I hope. You like it. And because, there are going to be plenty of people who don't and they are going to have no problem in an anonymous way being vocal about it, and you're going to hear it. [00:48:33] And you're like, so I think, I don't think there's any more intimate form of risk. So that is art. That's what you're scared of.  [00:48:42] Jonathan: Yup.  [00:48:42] Carl: And on the other side of that fear is like the most intense, wonderful satisfaction of putting something into the world. And so balancing that I just think is so beautiful. [00:48:56] Like I just it's like that, that, that rift just now, like that's at the heart of the work I want to do more of is like, how do we get more people to say. I made this I hope you like it to the world because we need that. We, I, as a quote, unquote, consumer need that book. I need that print. I need that. [00:49:20] T-shirt because it shows to me there's still people making things they care about. And if that's the only world I want to live in.  [00:49:27] Jonathan: Yeah, wow. I don't think we can top that. [00:49:29] Carl: Yeah. Super fun.  [00:49:31] Jonathan: Carl. Thanks so much for coming on is sharing your observations and experience and expertise. Where should folks go to find out more about what you're up to? [00:49:40] Carl: Probably the easiest is behavior app.com. And and then, if you're interested in seeing the sort of broadcast stuff on Twitter, it's at behavior and Instagram app behavior,  [00:49:49] Jonathan: Amazing. Wow. Thanks again.  [00:49:51] Carl: Jonathan, my pleasure. That was really good.  [00:49:53] Jonathan: All right folks, that's it for this week. I'm Jonathan Stark and I hope you join me again next time for ditching hourly. Bye.

The buzz 1: “The best marketing doesn’t feel like marketing.” (Tom Fishburne, Founder, Marketoonist). The buzz 2: “Marketers need to build digital relationships and reputation before closing a sale.” (Chris Brogan, CEO, Owner Media Group) The buzz 3: “Companies that speak in the language of the pitch are no longer speaking to anyone.” (The Cluetrain Manifesto, 95 business theses, 1999 – 2000) For years, sales organizations have understood the need for a new way to engage prospects and customers – particularly since traditional rolodex-dependent cold-calling was producing dismal results. Why? Buyers are demanding a personalized, customized, and integrated experience along the total customer journey. Yet at the same time, Marketers have been reluctant to embrace a new way of engaging customers – always throwing out the “volume” argument. Who is right? If sales teams are having real success with the “digital engagement” model, why are Marketers so resistant? What information / data / knowledge will help Marketers embrace this new paradigm? How can Marketers support their sales team counterparts for their collective success? We’ll ask Steve Watt at Seismic, Sarah Goodall at Tribal Impact and Charrele Robinson-Brown at SAP for their insights on what it will take for Marketers to change their mindset, skillset and potentially, their toolset, on Marketers’ Reality Check: Your Digital Presence Quotient *DPQ*.

Matthew Vernhout of emailkarma.net joins Christoph Trappe on this episode to discuss how we can make email marketing better for all involved. Other content mentioned on the show: Marketoonist cartoon on too many emails https://marketoonist.com/2020/11/lead-nurturing.html Do all marketing emails need to be designed? https://authenticstorytelling.net/email-design-inspiration/ More: Find more podcast episodes: https://lnkd.in/eYsZuzr Christoph's content performance book: https://authenticstorytelling.net/content-performance-culture-book/ Need help with your marketing? Grab Christoph’s discounted strategy and implementation package now: https://authenticstorytelling.net/digital-marketing-strategy-offer/ --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/ctrappe/message

The one about humour in marketing, Google Chrome extensions and The Terminator - TG15  00:00:00 Introduction  Here are your hosts, Roger and Pascal.  00:02:24 In the News  A selection of announcements and news releases from the world of marketing and technology that caught our attention.  00:10:12 Content Spotlights  ROGER: Marketoonist on humour in marketing: It can be an act of empathy   https://www.marketingweek.com/marketoonist-humour-act-of-empathy/ (https://www.marketingweek.com/marketoonist-humour-act-of-empathy/)  PASCAL: 2021 B2B Content Marketing Survey by Content Marketing Institute https://contentmarketinginstitute.com/2020/09/b2b-industry-benchmarks-budgets-trends-research/ (https://contentmarketinginstitute.com/2020/09/b2b-industry-benchmarks-budgets-trends-research/)  00:25:14 Marketing Tech and Apps   ROGER: WordSwag: http://wordswag.co/ (http://wordswag.co/)  StorySwag: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/storyswag-by-word-swag/id1450470539 (https://apps.apple.com/us/app/storyswag-by-word-swag/id1450470539)  PASCAL: It's all about Google Chrome Extensions  Awesome ScreenShot and Screen Recorder - Full page screen capture and screen recorder 2 in 1  https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/awesome-screenshot-screen/nlipoenfbbikpbjkfpfillcgkoblgpmj (https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/awesome-screenshot-screen/nlipoenfbbikpbjkfpfillcgkoblgpmj)  GIPHY For Chrome - Respond to emails, tweets and more with GIFs and Stickers.  https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/giphy-for-chrome/jlleokkdhkflpmghiioglgmnminbekdi (https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/giphy-for-chrome/jlleokkdhkflpmghiioglgmnminbekdi)  And don't forget the web version for your own GIPHY Zoom background https://giphy.com/create/gifmaker (https://giphy.com/create/gifmaker)  00:33:42 This Week in History  Our selection of historical events and anniversaries from the world of science, technology and popular culture.  00:39:41 Creator Shout Outs  PASCAL: Simon Raybould, specialist trainer in voice and presentation skills  The Presentation Genius Blog https://presentationgenius.info/blog/ (https://presentationgenius.info/blog/)  ROGER: Phil Bray, Yardstick Agency  https://initiativeforfinancialwellbeing.org.uk/financial-planning-and-mental-health-how-one-improved-the-other-for-me/ (https://initiativeforfinancialwellbeing.org.uk/financial-planning-and-mental-health-how-one-improved-the-other-for-me/)  00:45:42 Film Marketing  This week we talk about The Terminator A true independent production with guerilla style filmmaking and lots of ingenuity.  About Two Geeks and A Marketing Podcast    Hosted by the two geeks, Roger Edwards and Pascal Fintoni, to keep you up to date with the latest news, tech, content and wisdom from the world of marketing.  Roger is a man on a mission to keep marketing simple. He is the voice of the Marketing & Finance Podcast and the host of the RogVLOG series.   Pascal is also on a mission to demystify digital marketing. He's the host of the Content Marketing Studio video podcast and many other video series.  Every week we'll bring you the following segments.  In the News.  Content Spotlight  Marketing Tech and Apps  This Week in History  Creator Shout Outs  Film Marketing  Please subscribe and leave comments and suggestions in the usual places.  Watch the show on video: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCChv7HnP_ZqGoFQbzqkeaKA (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCChv7HnP_ZqGoFQbzqkeaKA)?  Pascal Fintoni: https://pascalfintoni.com/ (https://pascalfintoni.com/)  Roger Edwards: https://rogeredwards.co.uk/services/...

    Jullian Sibi is a software engineer who turned his passion of tech into his blog, utterlyrandomtechie.com, that makes sense of the techie life. His interactions with fellow creatives led him to start a podcast, The Creator Life, an interview/conversation podcast that finds out how different creators live.   In this episode, we talk about the future of podcasts, Spotify possibly being the YouTube of podcasts, live streams, what you get from podcasts, attention spans and looking back at 2020.   Enjoy!   SHOWNOTES The company Cebu Internationalpodcastday.com Marketoonist - the productivity trap   Where can you find Jullian? https://www.utterlyrandomtechie.com/ https://anchor.fm/thecreatorlife     This podcast is sponsored by Bix Recovery Supplement. I’ve been using Bix Recovery Supplement as one of the key hydration mixes after a bicycle ride. It’s got all the good stuff in it – vitamin C, Zinc, Vitamin E, Q10, Bromelain, calcium, magnesium, BCAA, potassium, iron and sodium. Learn more and orders yours at https://www.instagram.com/focusrecoveryph Music in the podcast Piano March by Audionautix Support the show: (1) Become a Patreon subscriber – https://www.patreon.com/zerothreetwo (2) Share this episode on social media. More: http://zerothreetwo.com/monday

In this episode, Ian Truscott, Founding Editor of Rockstar CMO, suggests something to take a look at from the latest issue of Rockstar CMO, he chats to Wendy Bryant Beswick, CMO of Service Credit Union and again joins Robert Rose for a cocktail.From the latest issue of Rockstar CMO, Ian suggests a look at The Green Room feature where this month 5 of our Rockstar CMO's talk the Crisis Keepers, those things they've learned from the crisis around the pandemic that they will take forward after this crisis subsides. Summed up nicely by a reference to a quote from the Marketoonist, Tom Fishburne – “We’re not going back to work, we’re going forward to work.”Wendy Bryant-Beswick, CMO of Service Credit Union, joins Ian in the interview segment, and they discuss the challenges facing marketing today, pivoting and educating her team. They also revisit their Backstage Q&A conversation from The Nevermind Issue, specifically how essential company values are and what we would throw into the Rockstar CMO Swimming Pool, our portal to hell for all the snake oil, bullshit, and doublespeak from our industry. Finally, Ian eases into the weekend with Robert Rose, Chief Trouble Maker at The Content Advisory, as he shares a Friday concoction and one marketing thought we should take away after a couple of cocktails with him.Please subscribe: Apple Podcasts | Spotify | Stitcher | Many othersLinks:The Latest issueThe Green Room Crisis KeepersWendy Bryant-Beswick on TwitterWendy Bryant-Beswick on LinkedInRobert Rose at The Content Advisory#FridayConcoctionPiano Music by Johnny Easton Shared Under Creative Commons License

Tom, AKA TheMarketoonist, talks about how it all started, his creative process, and share what the biggest consistent theme in marketing has been. To see Tom's work, get his brilliant book, or to work with him go to https://marketoonist.com To view Tom's world record colour by number art click here.

Partner relationship management software provider Allbound is growing at 150% year over year largely due to the company's inbound marketing efforts. Here's how they're doing it... This week on The Inbound Success Podcast, Allbound Director of Marketing Tori Barlow goes into detail about the company's inbound marketing strategy. From the tech stack, to team structure, metrics, paid ads strategy and more, Tori pulls back the curtain on what she's done to drive growth - and why collaboration with the sales team is key to her success. Highlights from my conversation with Tori include: Allbound sells partner relationship management software, which is designed to help companies manage their partner channel sales programs. When Tori took on marketing for Allbound, she started by building a strong foundation of KPIs, tech stack, performance monitoring and strategy. When it came to KPIs, she identified the company's Salesforce instance as the "single source of truth" and used it to establish what the historical performance had been. She used the data from Salesforce and the company's overall revenue target to determine how many marketing qualified leads (MQLs), demos and opportunities they would need to hit the revenue target. When it came time to define MQLs, Tori didn't want to simply define that as anyone who requested a demo so she worked with the sales team to create a scoring rubric based on the content her prospects were consuming. Any prospect that reached a score of at least 50 was passed on to sales for follow up. Once a lead is designated as an MQL, they become a "sales accepted lead" (or SAL) when a demo has been booked and a sales qualified lead (SQL) once the demo has happened and the sales team identifies that there is a viable opportunity. Once she had her lead stages defined. Tori focused on the tech stack. In Allbound's case, they set up Google Analytics and Google Tag Manager, and then used Marketo and Salesforce to track their performance. Now, they are beginning to experiment with account-based marketing and buyer intent data, but Tori's advice for marketers is to focus on and really master the basics first. They are also using Sendoso to send out direct mail as part of their ABM campaigns. In tandem with all of this, they adjusted their paid ads campaigns to focus less on the top of the funnel and more on nurturing what Tori calls "hand raisers." All of these changes have contributed to Allbound's organic traffic increasing 40% year over year and their search engine rankings increasing by 23 positions. In addition, the company's revenue has grown by 150%. Tori accomplished all of this with a marketing team of two people (herself and Allie, her coworker). She is now in the process of hiring a third person and the company is also onboarding a marketing and sales operations specialist. Resources from this episode: Visit the Allbound website Request a demo of Allbound Connect with Tori on LinkedIn Listen to the podcast to learn more about simplifying the messaging for complex products and services, and how, if done right, it can help you get better marketing results. Transcript Kathleen Booth (Host): Welcome back to the Inbound Success Podcast. I'm your host Kathleen Booth, and my guest this week is Tori Barlow who is the director of marketing at Allbound. Welcome Tori. Tori Barlow (Guest): Hi. Thanks for having me Kathleen. Tori and Kathleen recording this episode. Kathleen: I'm excited you're here, and I'm really excited about what we're going to talk about. Tori: Me too. About Tori and Allbound Kathleen: Yeah we connected because I heard that you guys were generating a ton of inbound leads and I'm always excited to pick apart how that's happening. Before we dig into this conversation though, can you just tell your story. Who are you? How'd you get where you are today, and what does Allbound do? Tori: Yeah, so I'm really excited to chat with you as well. Thanks again for having me. So I'm Tori Barlow. I am the director of marketing here at Allbound. And a little bit about me, I am originally from Atlanta, and currently live in Denver, Colorado. And I have been in marketing for, I want to say, over eight years now. I kind of started an agency life where I learned the ropes of paid search, SEO, email marketing. So kind of had my hands in a ton of different pots in marketing. And then moved in-house where I manage the SEO and paid search programs there, which was quite different from going from client relations to an in-house type of role. So that was a huge change for me at that period of my career. And then moved back into the agency life to get a little bit more hands-on with analytics and attribution from a marketing perspective. And really understanding how in order to have a successful marketing program, what are the key tracking metrics that you need in order to measure success and do your job. So that was kind of the beginning of my marketing career. And how I ended up at Allbound, I previously worked with our current CEO, Daniel Graff-Radford, who is amazing and anyone listening should reach out to him and connect with him. He has a wealth of knowledge throughout many industries. But I always told myself if I ever got the chance to work with him again, I would jump on it. And so that's how I ended up here. And so Allbound is a five year old company and we sell software that's called Partner Relationship Management Software. And essentially what that is, is a tool for partner managers to manage their entire partner life cycle. So let's say Zoom, for example, has distributors and resellers for their software. Zoom's partner manager would kind of manage all of their partners from training and onboarding to deal reg all in one platform. And Zoom is one of our clients as well. So that's a little bit about me and Allbound. Kathleen: That's great. Oh my gosh, a couple things. One, I love that you said, you had this person that you'd worked with and if you ever got the chance to work with him again you would, because that really resonates with me as a marketer. It's so important to have a great working relationship with the CEO. And to be really aligned in terms of your vision and how you do marketing and how the CEO participates in marketing, all of those things. So if you find a great relationship where you have that kind of alignment, it's like, yeah, jump at it every time to do it again and again and again. Tori: Oh yeah. And I think all marketers can relate to this. It's sometimes challenging bringing your ideas or budget requests or program requests to executives or CEOs. And if they kind of understand the working cogs and wheels of what you do, all the better. Kathleen: Yeah, totally. It's so much less exhausting. So the company is five years old. How long have you been there? Tori: So I started back in March and it's been a whirlwind. I can't believe it's already the end of the year. And I still feel like I'm learning everything every day. But yeah it's been several months. And when I first came on there was not really a consistent marketing strategy. So I was so lucky to be able to come in and work with Ali Spiric, my other marketing colleague, and kind of develop this entire marketing engine. How Allbound is growing with inbound marketing Kathleen: That's the part I was really excited to talk to you about is, you know you guys are growing pretty quickly. And to be able to support that kind of growth and not have things break and fall apart you need to have a really strong foundation. And this is something I'm very, very passionate about because it helps you do your job better. It's like, my husband always likes to say you, sometimes you have to slow down to speed up, right? And this is a great example of that. Like in the beginning, if you take the time to put the right engine in place and to get those things set up right from the get-go, you will go so much faster later. So let's talk about that. What kind of an engine are you building? Because you guys are getting great inbound marketing results. And I'm curious to hear what goes into creating a platform to deliver that. Tori: Yeah, I think that's a great question. And going back to your, you know, one day hopefully nothing will break. I wonder if we'll ever get to a day where all technology is smoothly running, but it's nice to think about. And I think there's different steps you can take to put into place of avoiding that, essentially. But when I first came on in March we kind of had carte blanche to figure out, okay these are our goals, these are our revenue goals. And as a startup it's pretty important to generate that net new revenue. So from a marketing perspective, you have to have all the pieces in place in order to support that from a sales perspective. So when we sat down and kind of understood the KPIs, we first understood and kind of worked backwards. Okay, this is our revenue goal as a company. How can marketing help facilitate that? And so our first step was kind of looking at historical data. Our source of truth is Salesforce. So we tried to identify, okay, month over month for the last one year, because that's all the data we had, was, how can we back into, how many MQLs do we need, how many first demos do we need, and how many opportunities do we need in order to get to that revenue number? So I know I was a little intimidated when I only had one year's worth of data to plug and play all these numbers. So that kind of took a little bit of the stress off with forecasting and backing into MQLs. And once we figured out, okay, this month we need 50 MQLs, or this month we need 40 MQLs. What are the programs in order to do that, to get to that number? And the way we defined MQLs, or a marketing qualified lead, was we sat down with sales and we talked through, okay lead scoring's a big part in our base of prospects in Salesforce. What do we define as a lead that's ready to be passed to sales? And so that was probably a very pivotal conversation and a very important one for us to tackle first with the sales team. Plus it kind of gave... Go ahead. Working with sales to define MQLs and SQLs Kathleen: Oh no, I was going to say I would love to talk more about that because I've actually seen a lot of marketers and sales people asking about this recently. Like, how do you define MQLs versus SQLs? And it's not the same everywhere obviously. Every company has to figure it out for themselves. But I'm curious, in your case, when you worked on defining, in this case a marketing qualified lead, was that purely based on demographics and firmographics? Were there behavioral aspects to it? How did you pin that down? Tori: Yeah it's a great question. And I think I would like to think of it as an ever evolving process specifically within startups or smaller businesses. Only because you want to grow that base, you want to grow the time on the phone with potential customers that we kind of decided, okay for our marketing qualified leads, anyone who submits a demo, regardless of company size, employee size, et cetera, we're passing them off to sales because we need to grow our base. So we kind of opened up the floodgates for just any sort of behavioral, if you cross this request threshold, we passed you to sales. On the other hand, if they fill out a piece of content or if they take one of our quizzes, that probably is not a very good indicator that they're ready to talk to a sales rep. So we created a scoring process based on priority content intent and then kind of going down the tracks of, this isn't really a priority so we're not going to assign a ton of points to this. But we came up with a method of once they hit 50 points within our marketing automation software, then we'll pass them to sales and they're deemed ready to talk to them. I think over time we'll want to revisit this every six months as we grow our base and say, all right, people who have 30 people in their company, or less than 50, we really don't really see any traction with them anyways so we're going to maybe negate that score or take away from that score. Kathleen: Then do you, beyond MQL, do you also have an SQL or sales qualified lead category? Tori: Yeah. So our process is, it goes MQL to sales accepted lead and that is a demo on the books and a calendar invite to the prospect. And then after that it's a SQL or sales qualified lead. Which kind of sounds confusing now that I think about it, with a lead verses opportunity, but our SQLs are deemed qualified opportunities by the AEs. Kathleen: Okay. Got it. All right, so sorry I interrupted you there because I wanted to learn more about your MQLs. Keep going, keep telling. Tori: Yeah it's a very important piece of the puzzle. Kathleen: Yeah. How Allbound tracks marketing performance Tori: So then our next question is, okay we have our metrics, we have our goals, now what? And how do we track this? So one of my favorite parts of a marketing engine, if you like to call it that, is what do we need to track and how do we prove our success? And I think every marketer's nightmare is, okay, I just got $100,000 for this year in marketing spend, now what? And I think this is an important piece to any marketer is, do you have your tracking set up? Do you have all of your firing implemented correctly from your marketing automation platform to your CRM and vice versa? Otherwise you could be spending good money on something that you have no idea if it's working or not. So our first goal was to set up something called Google analytics. And that is essential to, I believe, every digital marketer understanding website behavior, website trends, seasonality. When I first came onboard, I remember seeing so many different spikes and trends year over year. And kind of digging into the data a little further we realized, okay, this isn't even implemented correctly. So we needed to take a step back, and what you mentioned earlier of, take some time to slow down and then you can get there faster essentially. Kathleen: Yeah. Tori: So we stripped out all of our analytics and reworked everything to, again, what our goals are that we just sat down to define. So we were tracking goals incorrectly in Google Analytics. So we kind of reworked that puzzle to then match up to what our company goal was at the end of the day. So that was a first step. And then mirroring that and implementing that all the way through GTM, Google Tag Manager, and all of these other pieces to the puzzle for what Google Tag Manager can track as well, like Bing, LinkedIn, Facebook, all of those important channels from a marketer's tool set. So we started with Google Analytics and GTM, and then the second piece of the puzzle was our marketing automation platform. So in our instance we use Marketo. And within Marketo, we had to really sit down and think, okay, this is our new lead scoring, is it even set up correctly in Marketo? So that also was not aligned with the goals we just sat down to create with the sales team. So we kind of had to plug and play with what we were firing for behavior scores and what we were sending over to Salesforce as an alert to the sales team. So this sounds pretty easy to sit down and tackle in one day. It's very, I would like to say it's more of a manual process and more of a thoughtful process that I would recommend going through. Only because you want to make sure you're now tracking everything to the proper standard that you've just decided. So we sat down and we mapped out all of our ideal conversion levers from a source of truth or Marketo or Salesforce standpoint, and then integrated that within the platform. So that was the third piece of the puzzle. And then the final piece was making sure, okay, do Marketo and Salesforce talk to each other okay? And if not, we need to fix this stat. So that was another big undertaking of, okay, this field maps did that, do I need these Salesforce fields for my Marketo campaigns, et cetera? So working with our marketing automation specialist at the time was a very heavy piece to the puzzle on implementing all of that tracking. Kathleen: Yeah, I just went through that at a place I've been working and it's overwhelming at times. That's all I have to say about that. Tori: I know I'd like to feel like I'm a technical specialist now in Marketo, but it's so much more than that. And so cumbersome that it's a lot to handle. But it is- Kathleen: Now that Marketo-Salesforce combination, you really almost need just a marketing ops person. Tori: Oh for sure. Kathleen: To manage all that. My eyes glaze over when I just think about it. Tori: Yeah. Marketing ops I feel is a role that is so important for any marketer these days. And it's funny, we're actually about to hire a sales and marketing ops person that will kind of combined to one. And I already have like five pages of requests for that. Kathleen: Are you just like so excited for that person to start? Tori: So excited. Kathleen: They're going to walk in the door and you're going to be like, "I'm so happy you're here." Tori: I want to take you for the first week. Kathleen: Yes, yes. Let me buy you lunch because you're going to be my new best friend. Yeah, I totally agree with you. If you have somebody good who knows how to make the technology work, oh gosh, what a difference that makes. So you have Marketo and Salesforce, you have Google Analytics and Google Tag Manager. Are there other analytics platforms that you're using in combination with those things? Tori: Yeah, it's an interesting question. We currently don't have any implemented right now, but we are shifting a lot of our strategy to be more cohesive with the sales team. We're noticing that, to your point, what this podcast is about with inbound. You know, inbound is definitely a good chunk of our revenue source and lead source. But what we've kind of dabbled in this year is ABM. And I know it's such a buzzword and so hot right now, but it's been around for awhile as everyone said. But we just tried to implement a strategy that worked for us as a small company and we saw success with it. So what we were seeing was our SDRs would outbound these targeted accounts, at the same time marketing would upload these targeted accounts to LinkedIn and target them with gated content, for example. So we would get those buyer intent signals from targeted accounts. And what we were noticing was, essentially, if our SDRs were outbounding these prospects, someone else within the organization would come in and request a demo on the website. So it was this tag team initiative that truly spoke for marketing and sales working together, which was like a marketer's dream, right? So we talked to ourselves and said, hey, this kind of manual process is sort of working so far. Is there any way we can scale this? And so right now we are kind of looking at some technology for reverse IP lookup functionality or data enrichment functionality, as well as some better prospecting tools for our sales reps that will ultimately work in conjunction with marketing efforts. Kathleen: Have you looked at any buyer intent data? Tori: Yes we have. We've kind of looked at... You mean specific software or just what we are noticing? Kathleen: No, like specific software that would deliver a high intent leads to you. Tori: Yeah, so we're going through that vetting process now. We have looked at G2 Crowd, we have looked at Leadfeeder, Clearbit and so we're kind of still in the vetting stages. So if anyone has any recommendations, love to hear them. Kathleen: I will give you mine when we're offline because I try to stay very unbiased on this podcast. Tori: Okay. Great. Kathleen: But yeah, I think, that's something that I'm really intrigued by right now. I think the potential for it is tremendous. And there's not a lot of companies really using it yet. Tori: I agree. And I think even, we just signed on with this one tool that helps us automate direct mail and then you can track that into Salesforce as part of your ABM strategy. And so, I remember when I first started marketing several years ago, my company was sending out direct mail pieces and people were like, why are you still doing that? Like that's so last year. And now it's back. Like now it's this thing again. And it's cooler now. Kathleen: So I just had this rant on LinkedIn about that because it was funny, somebody posted a Marketoonist cartoon about all these different things being dead. You know, like email is dead and direct mail is dead and the role of the CMO is dead. And I feel like at this time of year in particular, there's a lot of those, "2020s coming, this is dead" proclamations. And I honestly believe, first of all, nothing is ever dead. If it's not working, it's because you're not innovating or you're not doing it right. Tori: That's a good point. Yeah. Kathleen: So it's funny with direct, I think there's always been a place for direct mail. It's just that it was not, it was abused. Right? Tori: Executed. Yeah. Kathleen: People didn't do it well. So done well it can be very effective, for sure. So there, I just did my rant again on the podcast. Tori: I'll supplement that rant. I saw a really good idea for a prospect gift that an SDR could maybe send that said, it was a pair of socks and the message was, let's start on the right foot. Kathleen: Oh, I love that. Tori: We thought that was cute. So yes, to your point, I think it's creative and how you use it is what matters. Kathleen: Yeah, absolutely. So can you say the name of the company that's doing your automated direct mail? Tori: Yeah, we just decided to go with Sendoso. Kathleen: Oh, I love them. They're such a great company. Tori: I heard good things. Kathleen: And not only because somehow or another I won some sort of gift card to their swag store. I think I went to a webinar they did and they sent me this $50 voucher for their swag store. Tori: Nice. Kathleen: And their swag store is awesome. It's all pet related. So I have two Labrador retrievers and I got two Sendoso leashes, a Sendoso Frisbee, and a Sendoso tennis ball toy. And my dogs are going bananas over all of it. It's really cute. So thank you- Tori: I might have to go. Yeah, I might have to get a dog just for those swag gifts. Kathleen: There you go. All right, so any other elements to your tech stack that you think are important? Tori: For a tech stack, I think as a marketer I definitely get those googly eyes of, ooh, I really love this. Especially if someone is marketing to me in a smart way. Since we are marketers, we respond to good marketing, right? So I think I've had the tendency to say, oh, I really think this technology would be great. But I think something important that I've had to remind myself is, start with the basics. And if something's working, then find a technology to maybe scale that. I think that's been super important for us as a small company. So to answer your question, those are all the technology pieces we have right now, but I'm ready for more soon probably. Kathleen: But I think your outlook is really smart because I got excited about talking to you because you guys are not a huge company. You don't have an endless budget. And I don't think that there's enough information out there on when you're at that small but growing stage, what do you do? Like what needs to be in place? And I love getting into really granular detail about it. And you're right, if you have huge VC dollars, sure you can go out and buy every shiny penny technology solution that's out there. But if you don't, you really need to be judicious. And there are plenty of ways to do things in a scrappy manner and get great results until you're ready to make that big investment. And you know that strategy is working. Totally on the same page with you on that one. Tori: Right. Yeah. And I think sometimes you can feel like, okay, something's not working or maybe you have slow lead days and you kind of feel that altogether when those leads don't come through. And it's like, okay, what can I do now? Or what can I have now? And the reality is you just kind of have to sit it out and give it time to prove itself. And I know that sounds painful, but I agree. I think you kind of just have to do one piece of the puzzle at a time. And it's also important, you could have all of this technology and maybe the sales reps don't use it or they don't find it useful or they weren't onboarded correctly. So is it even useful at that point? So I think taking the technology steps one piece at a time and training is all the more important. How inbound marketing is fueling Allbound's growth Kathleen: Absolutely. Now you talked about getting results. Can you speak a little bit to how Allbound, like the kinds of results from inbound marketing that Allbound to seeing? Tori: Yeah, so we had to, once we got the marketing engine running and we had this year's worth of cleaner data than we've had before, what we started to see was an increase in MQLs and demo requests. And what I'll say for that, I'll kind of back up a little bit. At the same time of kind of getting all the tracking and the plumbing in place, we also started a new paid search program and a new SEO program. And what that entailed was, we were kind of looking at our keywords from a paid search perspective and we are really spending a lot of money on very top of funnel terms that these prospects would download content. Again, if we go back to when we sat down with sales and what was a good qualified lead, downloading content wasn't something of priority. So we re-swizzled a lot of our paid search strategy. We restructured our entire Google AdWords account and really focused on, okay, what are the keywords that the hand raisers are focusing on, and what types of ad copy and landing pages do they want to see? And so that was one piece of the puzzle of that fundamental building block. And then the second piece was the SEO strategies. So I'm kind of partial to both of them because that's my background and I have found tremendous growth just from having a set SEO plan. And so what we started with was the technical piece of SEO. So asking ourselves questions like, can Google see us from a code perspective? What is Google reading on our website that maybe we don't want Google to know about us? And by that I mean, maybe we're phrasing who we are in a way that we don't want to rank for organically. So we took an inventory of all of our top nav pages, what our title tags, what our code was saying from an SEO perspective, and really honed in on our top value drivers for our product. And then from there after the technical piece was in a good spot, we then focused on content. So our whole strategy has been laying that foundation from the SEO perspective, but then gradually creating content that's relevant to our buyer but also helps us rank organically for Google. So from that piece of the puzzle we were able to increase our year over year traffic by 40% from an organic perspective. And from a keyword ranking perspective we had increased 23 positions overall for our total tracked keywords in Google search console. So those incremental changes that we made just in these last several months have tremendously helped us with our visibility on Google. So that's one piece of the puzzle. And then from the ultimate goal from, how can marketing contribute to the revenue, we saw increases in month over month and quarter over quarter MQL volumes. Which ultimately resulted in more first-time demos for our prospects. What we got really excited about was once we piloted this ABM initiative, we started tracking something new for marketing, which is I think very important. And it's called marketing assist opportunities or meetings booked, which again, an SDR is prospecting and somehow marketing was involved in one way or another, whether that's LinkedIn ads or reading our content and self identifying through that. And so we started tracking marketing assisted conversions in Salesforce. And so the trend line is an interesting hockey-stick with how much marketing has assisted in opportunity revenue month over month just this year. Kathleen: That's so great. I'm so happy to hear that that's something you're tracking because I do find that a lot of companies look at attribution as a very binary. Meaning that they feel like it's either sales or it's marketing, right? And that does not in any way reflect the reality of the situation. You know? There aren't going to be a lot of cases except in really low touch, low price SaaS where it's all marketing, right? Or e-commerce. You know, if you're talking about a complex B2B sale, you're going to have a combination of both. Inevitably. And I feel like too many companies spend too many calories arguing over whether it's really sales or marketing that closed the deal. So it's nice if you can have that middle ground, look at assists or look at first touch versus last touch, and acknowledge that it's a combination of these things that leads to deals getting closed. Tori: Yeah, I 100% agree. I think every company struggles with the, no, this was an SDR deal. No, this is a marketing deal. We've struggled with that too. I think it's very common and natural. And I think what we are trying to for next year in 2020 is, we all have the same goal. So marketing goals are bubbled up into sales goals, which this year they really weren't. So we're kind of shifting that focus to really be on the same team and have that mentality of we're helping each other, how can you bounce back if leads are slow one month? You know, how can we help with outbounding with messaging or content? So we're trying to play that tag team game, and it's a learning game for sure. But to your point, we're all in the same company. Kathleen: Yeah. Yeah. You're all rowing in the same direction. So your organic traffic, it sounds like increased 40% year over year. What's happened with overall lead gen and company growth? Tori: Yeah, so our company revenue grew over 150% 2019 compared to 2018. Kathleen: That's awesome. Congratulations. Tori: Thanks. We have seen tremendous growth in our net new business and we are looking to double that even next year with all of our strategies in place. So it's been a very successful and also just fun year to be at Allbound. How Allbound's marketing team is structured Kathleen: That's great. Now what we haven't talked about, and I'm curious to know is, what does the team look like that's supporting all of this? The marketing team. Tori: Yeah. You're talking to 50% of the marketing team. So our team is very small. It's myself and Allie, and we are very nimble and agile with projects and what we're tackling. But if you look at all that's in our project base, we're tackling everything from webinars to paid social to paid search to reporting and email marketing. We're kind of tackling the whole gamut. So we definitely handle a lot that comes our way. But it's been so rewarding and I would say we've both learned so much and are so lucky also to have a wonderful CEO that says, you guys have carte blanche, test it, see if it works and let's find a new solution if it doesn't. So it's been really fun and we're excited to... We're actually in the process of hiring a third marketing person to join in January. So if anyone's looking, please send your resume to me. But I think this person would have a hand in the piece of the puzzle to be that marketing engine in 2020 as well. Kathleen: Wow, I am so impressed that you're doing all that with two people. That's a lot. And what amazing results too. That's great. Seriously, you guys are killing it. Do you have outsourced support as well or is it just the two of you literally doing everything? Tori: Yeah, so we outsource our marketing automation and Salesforce ops right now. So that is something that's, like we talked about, so key to the puzzle. And then we outsource some of our content writing. And so Allie does an amazing job managing the content strategy. We just put our first content marketing calendar together for 2020, so it's been great to have a plan for content which is good. But yeah, it's been primarily us tag teaming and then those outsourcing pieces. Oh, and we also outsource our paid search agency. They manage our, you know, they pull all the levers for AdWords and Bing, and then we have our SEO consultant as well. Kathleen: Okay, great. Well I'm super impressed that you've been able to do all that with a small team. That's amazing. Tori: Thank you. Kathleen's two questions Kathleen: Yeah. Well there's two questions I always ask my guests and I would love to know what your answers are. First, since you guys are doing so well with inbound marketing, is there anyone else, either a company or an individual that comes to mind that you think is really killing it right now with inbound? Tori: That's a great question. I would say I love the progress that a company called Terminus is doing, the ABM company. I remember when they were very small and their CEO was, several years ago, pitched to our CEO in an office and now they're this huge company. And I think it takes a lot of different types of marketing for something that successful to happen in a few years. And so I would say Terminus is kind of crushing it in that sense. And then I would also say, I've kept an eye on companies like Gong, I think Gong, the recording software does a tremendous job with relating and speaking to their target audience and they kind of nailed the messaging down. So I've had my eye on them and look to them as great inspiration as well. Kathleen: Yeah, I totally second those. Both of those. They're great examples. The other thing I like to ask people is that digital marketing changes so quickly, and as someone who is a master juggler working on all different aspects of marketing for her company, how do you stay up to date and keep yourself educated on everything? Tori: Yeah, well I love reading blogs like Search Engine Land and I keep up with the Google blog just to stay up to speed there. I'm really lucky with our paid search agency, they give us tidbits of what the Google betas are and what's coming up from a paid search perspective. And then we're really lucky at Allbound have something very special that's a monthly book club. And so we read sometimes the latest and greatest business books, but also other books that have proven to be successful in different frameworks like sales or marketing or product. So I stay up to date with that from that element as well. And I think that's great too because then everyone can kind of get in a room together and share their insights and share their perspective on certain things. And then from there you bubble off into different tangents and can research that on your own. So I love those blogs, but I also am a huge fan of just reading any sort of analyst reports like Forrester, huge fan of keeping up to speed with what the new tech reports are and who's entering the space from a technology perspective. How to connect with Tori Kathleen: That's a great suggestion. I love all those. If someone is listening and they want to learn more about Allbound or they have a question for you about what we've talked about today, what's the best way for them to connect online? Tori: Yeah, so you could just visit our website and fill out either a contact us form or if you're interested in a demo or a request a demo. We're also available to chat on our website as well if you have any questions. And you can reach out to me directly on LinkedIn as well. You know what to do next... Kathleen: Great. All right. Well, if you're listening and you feel like you learned something new or you enjoyed what you heard today, head over to Apple podcasts and do me a favor and leave the podcast a five star review. That's how we get discovered and more people can listen to these episodes. And if you know someone who's doing kick ass inbound marketing work, tweet me @workmommywork, because I would love to make them my next interview. Thanks so much for joining me, Tori. Tori: Thanks for having me.

Laughter is the best medicine, the saying goes. In this episode we talk to Tom, founder of Marketoonist about the potential of humor in business.

The best marketing doesn't feel like marketing - Interview with Tom Fishburne, the Founder & CEO of Marketoonist, a cartoon studio focused on content marketing. He's also a very popular cartoon blogger and has just published a new book called: Your Ad Ignored Here: Cartoons from 15 Years of Marketing, Business, and Doodling in Meetings.

CEO of Notable Growth, Rebecca Nackson, talks being the "marketing therapist" in the martech space. She brings us the 3 T's: Team, Tools and Tactics. You need to have all in place to create a best-in-class engagement solution. *Hosted by Dave Goldstein and PJ Bruno LIVE at LTR 2019*       [0:00:17] P.J. Bruno: Hi again. Welcome back to Braze For Impact, your MarTech Industry discuss digest. I'm your host, P.J. Bruno. And with us today, CEO of Notable Growth and very good friend of ours, Rebecca Nackson. How are you, Rebecca?   [0:00:31] Rebecca Nackson: I am doing just fine.   [0:00:32] P.J. Bruno: Welcome.   [0:00:33] Rebecca Nackson: Thanks for having me.   [0:00:33] P.J. Bruno: Welcome, Rebecca. And also my confidant here, my friend and coworker, head of Global Solutions Alliances at Braze, Dave Goldstein. What's up buddy?   [0:00:44] Dave Goldstein: How are you guys?   [0:00:46] P.J. Bruno: We're doing great, aren't we? We're cozy.   [0:00:48] Rebecca Nackson: It's just a shame that people can't see the shoes Dave is wearing.   [0:00:52] P.J. Bruno: I wish you could. Imagine bedazzled. Right?   [0:00:57] Dave Goldstein: Consequently, these are the shoes... Funny, we'll tie this back to marketing.   [0:01:00] Rebecca Nackson: Okay.   [0:01:00] Dave Goldstein: You ready?   [0:01:01] Rebecca Nackson: Yes.   [0:01:01] Dave Goldstein: These were the shoes that... I'm trying to remember which vendor I bought them from, but it was online. And they had a mobile app. And I went back and forth between the two. And I was browsing and I was favoriting some things in the mobile app. And I went back to the website and they were chasing me with ads. Right? Like showing me these shoes, and I was like, God, I love these shoes. I really got to buy them. I really got to buy them. And I converted. I bought them. And I'm wearing them here. I still think I get ads for these shoes. They're still popping up in the sidebars. It's unbelievable.   [0:01:32] Rebecca Nackson: This went from being a triumph of great targeting to the perils.   [0:01:35] P.J. Bruno: Yeah.   [0:01:36] Dave Goldstein: I'm like-   [0:01:36] P.J. Bruno: Broken.   [0:01:37] Rebecca Nackson: Right? Broken experience.   [0:01:38] Dave Goldstein: How much more money are you going to waste?   [0:01:40] Rebecca Nackson: How many more pairs of this same shoe?   [0:01:42] Dave Goldstein: Yeah. I love them. I bought them. Shout out to the Nike Air Jordans, by the way.   [0:01:46] P.J. Bruno: He's wearing them. You guys can't see these things but they're glittered and there's a five inch heel.   [0:01:52] Dave Goldstein: What am I, Kiss?   [0:01:53] P.J. Bruno: Anyway, here we are hanging out. Rebecca Nackson, very good friend. We worked with her for a while now. Good friend of Braze. Was at Prolific originally. And we actually were just talking about, six months ago we were at MAU. And now here she is CEO of Notable Growth already starting super strong. Tell us about what happened in the last six months maybe. Let's wrap all up into ten minutes.   [0:02:18] Rebecca Nackson: I saw a lot of great content and I just thought, I'm ready to do it myself.   [0:02:22] P.J. Bruno: Let's go.   [0:02:24] Rebecca Nackson: A combination of events outside and inside of my control. But a story I like to tell is, I signed up to go to an event a couple of years ago so that I could learn a lot more. I was feeling a little intimidated that other people in the space knew more about this than I did. So, I signed up to go to this event. And they then reach out to me to ask if I'll be on one of the panels. And I thought, oh, that's interesting. Here I am thinking like I wanted to... I can't tell if this just shows how little everybody else knows. But I think that every time I come to an event like this, it is a combination of those things where I'm always learning. It's one of the things that I love about being in this space. Like there's not a single not even just conference that I come to, even blog post that I read that I don't think, oh, that's something new. But then, there's also some cool reminders where I think, oh, maybe I do know a thing or two by now.   [0:03:18] P.J. Bruno: Exactly. I mean, I love that approach though, always learning, right?   [0:03:21] Rebecca Nackson: Yeah.   [0:03:21] P.J. Bruno: Because nobody knows all of it. And everybody feels that imposter syndrome.   [0:03:25] Rebecca Nackson: Yes.   [0:03:25] P.J. Bruno: And it's honestly refreshing to have a CEO that can like own that, so.   [0:03:29] Rebecca Nackson: Thank you.   [0:03:29] Dave Goldstein: Isn't it amazing too, right? Like just the general community that's popped up in the last two, three years?   [0:03:36] Rebecca Nackson: Yeah.   [0:03:36] Dave Goldstein: It seems like there's so many people popping up who have done tremendous things and everybody is like forthcoming with information and sharing.   [0:03:45] Rebecca Nackson: Yes.   [0:03:45] Dave Goldstein: The community is incredible.   [0:03:46] Rebecca Nackson: I do have to say, it's not just because I'm in this small booth with the two of you, that there is something extra special about the Braze community and the vibe here at LTR of really cool brands sharing those. Like I think everybody is a little bit geeking out with one another. I tell clients of ours that, when you're signing your contract, you're not just signing on for this tool. You're part of a community. And I'm really seeing that here. And maybe it is a little self fulfilling because, if you've taken the time out of your schedule to come to an event, you're probably more likely to be both learning and sharing. But I'm seeing that people from various brands don't do the same thing at all, but are really connecting about how they're using Braze and just how they're trying to solve these problems in general.   [0:04:36] Dave Goldstein: It's amazing. It makes me think, actually, the conversation that I had with Steven yesterday, Steven Moy in particular, shout out to Steven Moy. He said, people don't buy brands, they join brands.   [0:04:51] Rebecca Nackson: Oh, I love that.   [0:04:51] Dave Goldstein: And I love that. Right?   [0:04:53] Rebecca Nackson: Yeah.   [0:04:53] Dave Goldstein: I think that's not always the case. The truth is like the brands that are killing it, their customers are the ones that are joining the brand.   [0:05:02] Rebecca Nackson: Yeah, that's right. That's right.   [0:05:03] Dave Goldstein: And I love what you said, right?   [0:05:04] Rebecca Nackson: Yeah.   [0:05:05] Dave Goldstein: Like I think that's spot on. It's like, you want to be part of a community of people that are doing incredible things.   [0:05:11] Rebecca Nackson: Yep. So, one of the reasons that I started consulting on this is because, as you guys know, I'm a two time Braze client myself. And it was very much the experience that I went through of choosing, integrating, launching, maximizing my own use of the tool that I thought, okay, I needed help when I was doing that. And part of the stress or the questions come from you're talking to competing sales people and you feel like I don't know who to choose. And so, one thing that I tell people now is, look at the brands that are using. Like that's proof. Right? And I have just always been struck by the caliber of the clients. And I think that that says a lot. Like it's clear that they're investing a lot in their marketing technology. And, if they've been there for a number of years, that certainly sends a good signal.   [0:06:04] P.J. Bruno: Yep.   [0:06:05] Rebecca Nackson: And the second time that I ultimately selected Braze when I was going through that process, I remember coming to an event. And I was there in large part because I just was a big fan of the brands that were in the invitation. And to just be there and get to talk to them, for those people that know me, they already know how geeky I am. And, for those that are listening, they'll learn. But those are like celebrities to me.   [0:06:29] P.J. Bruno: Right.   [0:06:30] Rebecca Nackson: You walk around. You see the billboards. You see the commercials.   [0:06:33] Dave Goldstein: Yeah. Yeah.   [0:06:33] Rebecca Nackson: You don't know that there's human beings.   [0:06:34] Dave Goldstein: They're in the subway cars, full takeover.   [0:06:36] Rebecca Nackson: Yep. Yep.   [0:06:37] P.J. Bruno: And, as your fan girling, they walk up and they're like, hey, do you want to run a panel actually? And you're like, what?   [0:06:43] Rebecca Nackson: I'm looking behind me. They must be talking to somebody from Casper right now. They can't possibly want me.   [0:06:47] P.J. Bruno: Exactly.   [0:06:48] Dave Goldstein: Are there any brands in particular that are absolutely nailing it, in your opinion, who you're really like fan girling out about where you're like, wow, that marketing got me.   [0:06:58] Rebecca Nackson: Oh, God. Yeah. We joke that, actually when you talk about the subway, we joke that our own growth hacking is by reaching out to everybody that's either advertising on podcasts or advertising in the subway. But what I'm really enjoying is I like a good underdog. I like a comeback story. So, I love seeing what's happening with retail and like the direct to consumer brands, but tying it into their in store experiences, the quote unquote digital transformation that's going on, but how those in-person experiences come together. And P.J., something that we've talked about is, every time there's a transition happening, let's say like the end of retail, right, everybody wants to act like it's the first time-   [0:07:45] Dave Goldstein: The apocalypse.   [0:07:47] Rebecca Nackson: The apocalypse is coming. But this has been happening since the beginning of advertising. So, it's really cool to see the brands that embrace it and think about it as this great challenge or maybe even get out ahead of it. I love that moment. Your back is against the wall for a minute, and then you lean in. And it's just a pleasure to watch it.   [0:08:06] P.J. Bruno: And that's what Notable is doing. You guys are the team that helps them lean in, as opposed to like push themselves away.   [0:08:13] Rebecca Nackson: In consulting, what I've learned, there's these two scenarios of either, there's the lean in like we want to get ahead of it. We know what we know. We know what we don't know. And it's interesting to us, focus is such an important aspect to what we do. And so, it's a pleasure to partner with somebody else who is really focused on their core business. And it's a great partner to us. Like it's actually much more interesting to work with somebody who's leaning in and has an opinion. So, we don't want them to just relegate that to us.   [0:08:41] P.J. Bruno: Mm-hmm (affirmative).   [0:08:42] Dave Goldstein: Do it all. Come up with everything for us.   [0:08:43] Rebecca Nackson: Yeah.   [0:08:43] P.J. Bruno: Right.   [0:08:44] Rebecca Nackson: Yeah. Because then they can't appreciate how great what we just did was.   [0:08:47] P.J. Bruno: Right. The benefits of a partner to a service.   [0:08:50] Rebecca Nackson: Yeah.   [0:08:51] P.J. Bruno: It's just such a different thing.   [0:08:52] Rebecca Nackson: Absolutely. And then, the other scenario is somebody who sort of fought it until the last possible minute. And now, they're in this moment where-   [0:09:05] P.J. Bruno: In the hole a little bit.   [0:09:06] Rebecca Nackson: They're in the hole a little bit. And so, that's an equally challenging and an exciting opportunity. And we try as much as we can to say, it's always the least expensive and the most successful to try to do it early on. But it's not always from the brands that you would expect it to be either, which is a big lesson that I've learned. And what's really fun is... And I sort of mentioned that in terms of the brands here, I think what's really interesting is when you can talk about a scenario, an example I've used before is we've worked with streaming partners before. We're working now with somebody in the fast food space. And, if you can think of an example that worked really well in streaming, and you can apply it to the QSR, the quick serve restaurant, what's great about that is like let's not do something that's the fifth streaming company to apply this technique. Let's be the first QSR to apply this technique and vice versa. So, for us, we as an agency, we get a lot of pleasure out of working with partners across the space. I mentioned focus. And so, I think it's like knowing where to focus and knowing where to go broad. For us, I've talked about the three T's that we think about tooling, teaming, and tactics.   [0:10:27] Dave Goldstein: Oh, I like that.   [0:10:28] Rebecca Nackson: You can tell that I was a marketer.   [0:10:31] Dave Goldstein: The three T's. Notable Nackson.   [0:10:33] Rebecca Nackson: I like alliteration. So, we think that, when it comes to the tactics, maybe that's where we can be a little more broad and that's where we can look across the industry. And where we are really focused for us it's the familiarity with the set of tools. I have a little bit of a chip on my shoulder being that I was a marketer who has hired agencies and consultants before. I know what the reputation can be of like, we don't want to bring somebody and who is just going to drop some recommendations on our desk.   [0:11:03] Dave Goldstein: You have sat in those shoes before.   [0:11:04] Rebecca Nackson: I have sat right in those-   [0:11:05] P.J. Bruno: Right.   [0:11:05] Dave Goldstein: Yeah. Which is so important, by the way.   [0:11:07] Rebecca Nackson: Yeah, I think so. It's interesting to me there's not more people that have been sort of on that side. But the ego in me thought like, okay, now I'm going to go out there and do that thing that I had done to me so many times.   [0:11:19] P.J. Bruno: Right.   [0:11:19] Rebecca Nackson: But so, it's really important to me that the entire team knows how to do the work. So, our suggestions only go as far as the tool that's going to be able to make that happen and vice versa. The stereotype about a marketer can be that you're going to come in and say, let's run a Superbowl ad. Let's not worry about how we're going to pay for that or measuring the impact. Right? We know that, when we're suggesting something to our clients, that the tools can do that. But the flip side of that is, there's somebody on my team who he is most excited about what can we do with Braze that nobody else is doing? Let's get beyond the obvious functionality and let's take those features and let's reimagine them in ways that nobody else has done that. Like he feels like most people are only scratching the surface.   [0:12:10] P.J. Bruno: Mm-hmm (affirmative).   [0:12:11] Dave Goldstein: Yeah. Yeah.   [0:12:12] Rebecca Nackson: So, it's actually that really pragmatic approach to understanding the tool very well that counterintuitively allows us to be super creative.   [0:12:21] Dave Goldstein: Yeah.   [0:12:22] P.J. Bruno: Mm-hmm (affirmative).   [0:12:22] Dave Goldstein: And there's like a fine line that you need to walk when you do that as well.   [0:12:26] Rebecca Nackson: Yeah.   [0:12:27] Dave Goldstein: It makes me think of a Tom Fishburne, Marketoonist.   [0:12:31] Rebecca Nackson: Yeah.   [0:12:31] Dave Goldstein: He and I were cracking up yesterday. We were talking about this cartoon that popped up in my LinkedIn newsfeed where it was two panes. And, in one pane, it was an executive sitting behind a desk with like two subordinates. And he was like, we need to do something groundbreaking, game-changing that nobody has ever done before. And then, in the next pane, it was the two subordinates presenting to him and he's like, this seems kind of risky. Tell me some other brands that have done this.   [0:12:57] Rebecca Nackson: Oh my god. Oh, that's so brilliant. Well, we were talking about alliteration, but now the pun of like the fact that you're talking about panes. But the reason... Talk about pain, P-A-I-N, I think that... I was just talking about that presentation because another reason that I love consulting on what we do is that we do sort of bill ourselves as being part therapist as well.   [0:13:24] Dave Goldstein: I love it.   [0:13:26] P.J. Bruno: It's so good.   [0:13:26] Rebecca Nackson: And, I mean, that's that moment in that room yesterday, right? Where we're all like leaning in and we're watching these panels. And then, we have this moment of just sharing something. And I think that I felt very isolated a lot as the marketer. And so many times in our meetings, our client's eyes will light up at these different things that we're saying and they'll start laughing like, that sounds like us. You know? And they've really been presenting these ideas and they've had that moment of people pushing back. And everybody from every department is doing the very best that they can. Right? But we all have those moments where we feel like we're fighting this fight and everybody is just trying to tell us to stay in our lane. And sometimes, if nothing else, it's so important for another marketer to hear, I've been there.   [0:14:14] P.J. Bruno: The whole idea of the therapist, it just lends itself so much to customer satisfaction, customer experience.   [0:14:21] Rebecca Nackson: Yeah.   [0:14:22] P.J. Bruno: And we just had Andy Carvel in here talking about that.   [0:14:24] Rebecca Nackson: He's a hero of mine, by the way.   [0:14:26] P.J. Bruno: Right?   [0:14:26] Rebecca Nackson: Yeah.   [0:14:27] P.J. Bruno: You are fan girling.   [0:14:27] Rebecca Nackson: I am fan girling.   [0:14:28] P.J. Bruno: But he's over there looking through the pane being like, oh my God, is that Rebecca Nackson? Oh my god. But he was talking about like making sure you come to that conversation, and make sure it's bespoke, and make sure you're not trying to just re-kit their stack with things you're familiar with.   [0:14:42] Rebecca Nackson: Yeah.   [0:14:43] P.J. Bruno: Listen.   [0:14:43] Rebecca Nackson: That was the thing that hit me over the head when I started consulting. I'm going to come in and I'm going to have this right way. And I'm going to know the to suggest. And I'm going to know the right way to suggest them. And the human aspect of this, of consulting, but it's what all of us are doing, right? The human aspect of what we're doing with marketing, that thing of saying, hey, person out there, I have a service that I think is going to make your life better, and you're trying to connect with the audience, that's in what all of us are doing. And being able to say to somebody else, I hear you. I understand what keeps you up at night. I understand the fight that you're fighting in the office. Maybe I understand the fight that you're fighting outside of the office. I'm here to make it just a little bit easier for you. And you guys are doing that when you're reaching out to your clients, right? The thing that I sometimes also say to our clients is like, give the salespeople a break sometimes too. Because they're kind of knocking on your door saying, hey, hardworking person out there. I have a tool that I think might make your life a little-   [0:15:45] P.J. Bruno: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.   [0:15:46] Rebecca Nackson: And we're all like moving those emails like into our spam folder. Right?   [0:15:51] P.J. Bruno: Right.   [0:15:51] Rebecca Nackson: But intelligently leverage those sales people, help them do your job. Help them make the case, right?   [0:15:58] P.J. Bruno: Totally. Don't just create weird friction because you're like, oh, your goals aren't my goals.   [0:16:02] Rebecca Nackson: Right.   [0:16:02] Dave Goldstein: Yeah.   [0:16:03] P.J. Bruno: Like arm them with the tool.   [0:16:04] Dave Goldstein: We're in this together.   [0:16:05] Rebecca Nackson: Right. But so, really being able to connect and really being able to come in and say to somebody, I hear you. And, exactly like you're referencing Andy's comment about, if you just come in the door and you say, I have a bunch of tools... Like I was in a pitch or a conversation where somebody said, I feel like everybody comes in and they tell me the tools that they have and they haven't even listened to my use cases first. And to be able to say, yeah, I understand. I've been in those conversations too. Right? It's always a reminder.   [0:16:36] P.J. Bruno: It seems like common sense too.   [0:16:37] Rebecca Nackson: I know.   [0:16:37] P.J. Bruno: But it really is... Apparently not.   [0:16:40] Rebecca Nackson: I know.   [0:16:40] Dave Goldstein: Is notabletherapy.com available? Someone should go on GoDaddy right now.   [0:16:46] Rebecca Nackson: I think I hear a pivot coming up right now.   [0:16:49] P.J. Bruno: That's an idea for some video content.   [0:16:50] Rebecca Nackson: Oh.   [0:16:51] P.J. Bruno: Oh.   [0:16:52] Dave Goldstein: Oh. Look at that. Magic is happening in the booth right now.   [0:16:57] Rebecca Nackson: Oh my god.   [0:16:57] P.J. Bruno: There you go. Let's take it offline. All right. So, anything that you're really excited about, Rebecca? We only got a few moments left, so just love to hear from you. What's big on the agenda for Notable? Big projects you're excited about, initiatives, partnerships, what are you personally stoked about?   [0:17:14] Rebecca Nackson: This is the part where my team is like already mouthing the words of what I'm going to say. But we are doing a lot at Notable with predictive analytics. We sort of like work with our clients on utilizing Braze really intelligently. And then, we're helping them measure the results of that. And we're saying, not only is A winning over B or B winning over A, but are you doing more than if you weren't doing anything at all? Now we're closing that loop and starting at the beginning of like, who are the audience segments you should even be messaging? And, if you were paying attention to the Cambridge Analytica stories, you know that there's positive and negative implications for this. But what I found really interesting in that documentary was this idea of marketing is not just about the right message, but also figuring out who are the people that you can even influence in the first place. And so, getting really intelligent about who are those Dave Goldsteins out there that, if you just show them that ad one more time for the sneakers, right? And the thing I love about that is, it was in the back of your mind, but you have a million things going on.   [0:18:16] Dave Goldstein: Yeah.   [0:18:16] Rebecca Nackson: And you maybe you forgot even for a minute.   [0:18:19] Dave Goldstein: Yeah.   [0:18:19] Rebecca Nackson: And so, you saw that ad and you were like-   [0:18:20] Dave Goldstein: Oh, I definitely forgot for a minute.   [0:18:21] Rebecca Nackson: For a minute. And there they were, right?   [0:18:23] P.J. Bruno: Almost ordered them again.   [0:18:24] Dave Goldstein: Almost.   [0:18:27] Rebecca Nackson: And then, on the other hand, those people that were already going to go out and buy them, don't show them. So, sometimes I'm telling people, it's just as much about who you should be messaging and who you shouldn't be. Right? And so, we love the science application that's now coming to the beginning of that. And then, that cycle. Then you measure its impacts and start all over again. So, that's going to be big in 2020 for us.   [0:18:51] Dave Goldstein: Wow.   [0:18:51] P.J. Bruno: Predictive.   [0:18:51] Dave Goldstein: Wow. I mean, clearly you are the consummate professional.   [0:18:55] Rebecca Nackson: Thanks.   [0:18:55] Dave Goldstein: You are an unbelievable expert in the space.   [0:18:58] Rebecca Nackson: Oh.   [0:18:58] Dave Goldstein: You know growth inside and out.   [0:18:59] Rebecca Nackson: You say that to everyone in this space.   [0:19:01] Dave Goldstein: I don't. I don't. But what I will say, your key differentiator, Notable Therapy. I'll tell you, I've walked a mile in those shoes, right?   [0:19:10] Rebecca Nackson: Yeah.   [0:19:10] Dave Goldstein: Like that is so-   [0:19:11] P.J. Bruno: Those glittery pumps.   [0:19:11] Dave Goldstein: Those glittery pumps.   [0:19:11] Rebecca Nackson: Mine aren't nearly as great as Dave's, but I have walked in those shoes.   [0:19:18] Dave Goldstein: It's an incredible thing to be able to relate to people on the... Humanity in action. Right?   [0:19:23] P.J. Bruno: There we go.   [0:19:23] Dave Goldstein: On the human level. Right? Right? In a natural, considerate way. Yeah.   [0:19:26] Rebecca Nackson: Yeah.   [0:19:26] Dave Goldstein: And you guys are incredible. And thank you so much for all your contributions to the community, everything you continue to do. And I'm so excited to see all the levels up that Notable is going to take this entire industry. It's amazing to watch you guys work.   [0:19:41] Rebecca Nackson: Thanks.   [0:19:42] P.J. Bruno: Seriously.   [0:19:42] Rebecca Nackson: We talked about LTR last year. We talked about MAU last year. Here's to what's going to be at LTR next year.   [0:19:49] Dave Goldstein: LTR 2020.   [0:19:50] P.J. Bruno: Can you imagine? No spoilers, but... Anyways, Rebecca Nackson, CEO, founder of Notable Growth. Thanks so much for being here. Anybody out there, please, if you're thinking marketing strategy, look into Notable Growth. Rebecca has been around the block. She's been a client time and time again. She will align. She will find the best tool and the best strategy for you. So, Rebecca, thanks again.   [0:20:12] Rebecca Nackson: Thanks for that.   [0:20:13] P.J. Bruno: Of course.   [0:20:14] Dave Goldstein: That said it all, Rebecca.   [0:20:16] P.J. Bruno: Dave, the golden boy, Goldstein. I love you man.   [0:20:20] Dave Goldstein: Love you too, brother.   [0:20:20] P.J. Bruno: Thanks for being in here. And thank you guys for joining us. You take care. [0:20:24]

Are people laughing at your business? Maybe you want them to. Humor is not only a great selling tool, but a fantastic way to create internal cultural changes. But how do you get started? We spoke with Tom Fishburne, Marketoonist, keynote speaker, and author of Your Ad Ignored Here. In this episode you'll learn: The Power of Laughing at Ourselves The Trojan Mouse Humor's Best Target: Yourself The Four-Step Humor Process If you want to learn how to create humor in your business and in your marketing, this is the episode for you.

In this episode we talk to Tom Fishburne, Founder of Marketoonist, keynote speaker, and author of Your Ad Ignored Here. Tom shares 4 specific ways humor can be a catalyst to your B2B marketing efforts: Develop more empathy for your prospective customers Better understand your target market Create serialized content that your audience actually looks forward to Internal cultural impacts -- helping you talk about tough topics, creating an environment for better change management Want to get a no-fluff email that boils down our 3 biggest takeaways from an entire week of B2B Growth episodes? Sign up today: http://sweetfishmedia.com/big3 We'll never send you more than what you can read in < 1 minute. :)

Delighted to welcome Tom Fishburne, the founder, and CEO of Marketoonist - you can't have missed them, they’ve been featured in all the big business publications and of course, you may recognize the style in several brand campaigns as well

Episode Title: Customer Engagement: The Marketoonist Talks Martech In today’s episode, marketer-turned-marketoonist Tom Fishburne tells us why pain points are shorthand for empathy, and how he helps bring perspective to marketers by finding humor in these pain points. Here are the key takeaways from the discussion: Marketers need to get out of their ‘ivory towers’ and spend time with their customers in real environments- over the phone or in person. Quantitative data is great, but qualitative insight will only come from real conversations in live environments In fact, listen to not just your customers, but also sales and other functions- all of whom impact the CX. Customers only see the end interaction- they don’t care about silos in the marketing or overall organization. Telling the marketing story internally or externally: while the delivery should come down to your personal style, in essence it is about making a conscious effort to get everyone – all stakeholders irrespective of tile or function - to understand and come on board to deliver the ultimate CX as a team. There are 2 areas where marketers tend to overcomplicate things Strategy technology How can we describe our marketing strategy or technology in a way that can be understood by absolutely anybody? The extra seasoning that makes some marketers more successful than others is that everyone in the organization should think of themselves as an integral part of the CX being delivered There is a false dichotomy between digital and non-digital marketing but in fact people tasked with CX - people with CX in their titles – need to find opportunities to deliver delightful experiences throughout the organization and not just in marketing workflows. A lot of thing that happen in the organization can be used as effective levers for marketing and brand building but spotting them needs a holistic outlook and approach. What are some of the indicators of culture in an organizations? How comfortable do people feel sharing opinions proactively? How openly can they have conversations about the elephant in the room? How well do they build the brand from the inside out? Too much personalization is dystopian. David and Tom agree that there is absolutely no confusion in the customers mind about what personalization is actually useful – it’s the marketers who need to figure it out and use the data and technology purposefully to act on the insight. Marketers need to figure out how to use the incredible power of martech tools without seeming exploitative. Segment 2: Report of the week from CommerceNext 1. The report highlights the top 5 barriers to achieving marketing goals in 2018 / 2019. Marketing integration of tools Acting quickly enough on marketing initiatives Getting a full unified view of the customers Organizational structure misalignment Finding and keeping the best marketing talent These barriers are a great opportunity for martech vendors 1. Integrating technology components with a more concentrated effort than just offering ‘integration through APIs’ – it’s about truly helping marketers do more within the ecosystem 2. Helping marketers know the technology better and use it optimally to act faster on marketing initiatives Segment 3: News of the week: Apple enters Facebook territory In light of Apples’ recent announcements at their developer conference, we find that the lines between bigtech are blurring- they all have different value propositions at the front end but in fact at the backed the lines seem to be blurring between whether big tech like Google, LinkedIn, Facebook, Amazon, and now Apple, are actually software companies, ecommerce companies, social platforms, marketing automation solutions or a data-driven marketing and advertising companies…what re they really wanting to be?

During episode 266, co-hosts BL Ochman & David Erickson discuss: Atlanta Falcons, OREOs, and Fender Guitars culturejacking the last season of Game of Thrones A 5 year-old's podcast Search Metrics' industry-specific search ranking factors The IRL trolling of Twitter's Jack Dorsey The New York Times' brilliant use of the Hero space for storytelling Apple's Earth Day video LinkedIn's new reactions Marketoonist's take on smart speakers Travelling podcast studios Helvetica Now All In The Family & The Jeffersons live Twitter author labels Notre Dame fire misinformation Facebook grabbing contact list emails Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez sort of quitting social media Cuddlebot Innovation Hub podcast Spotify for Podcasters Fox Zings Trump An epic Mueller Report live tweet thread Pete for America design toolkit Sports leagues popularity Plus great new apps and important stats and a lot of stuff in between. Show Notes & Links: http://beyondsocialmediashow.com/266 Watch the video version Connect with the show on social media Subscribe to the weekly eNewsletter

Conversation with Tom Fishburne, the Founder and CEO of the Marketoonist, Author of "Your Ad Ignored Here," and a subject matter expert at using humor in content marketing

Find out the value content marketing holds for humanizing a brand with the extraordinarily talented Tom Fishburne, creator of the Marketoonist! We bring to light why the audience should be the hero in storytelling, how empathy in content marketing is super effective, that creativity and content marketing requires true dedication, and as always smash myths to bits! Takeaways Replace a viral approach with a continuity mindset for content marketing Connecting with the audience is a privilege; provide something useful! Approach content marketing with empathy; show you understand your audiences' pain points Establish a system for the creative process & set aside time for it Commit to creating an ongoing relationship with the audience; that investment is worth far more than one viral piece of content Avoid one size fits all content marketing; target different audiences & experiment! Links Twitter: @tomfishburne Email sign-up: https://marketoonist.com/subscribe Marketoonist: https://marketoonist.com/ Your Ad Ignored Here: https://marketoonist.com/book

Jack is LIVE at the Canadian Franchise Assocation convention in Ottawa! And, Jim Buckley returns for a conversation what information sources are his favorites for learning about the latest trends in marketing!  

During episode 218, co-hosts B.L. Ochman and David Erickson discussed an autocomplete interview with Black Panther stars Chadwick Boseman, Lupita Nyong'o and Michael B. Jordan; Twitter amping up the news while Facebook flounders; the Amazon Pollycast; Bloomberg's Twitter TicToc; the lonely dog that went viral; Lucky Charms gets mythical; Watson gets embedded in virtual and augmented reality; the Marketoonist; the coming artificial reality apocalypse; the next chapter in Net Neutrality repeal; a clumsy, milky metaphor; Gmail gets AMPed; concussion spotting technology; plus great new apps and important stats and a lot of stuff in between. Show Notes & Links: http://beyondsocialmediashow.com/218 Connect with the show on social media Subscribe to the weekly eNewsletter

In this week’s episode of “Marketing Today,” Alan talks with Tom Fishburne, the founder of Marketoonist, a content marketing agency that employs cartoons to make its point, and the author of “Your Ad Ignored Here.” His work reaches several hundred thousand marketers every week, and Seth Godin calls him the David Ogilvy of cartooning. In discussing his work, Fishburne says, “It’s fun for me, as someone who comes from both marketing and cartooning, to think about how cartoons can help solve marketing challenges.” He goes on to add, “Cartoons can ultimately bring empathy to a topic that can otherwise be very technical. Use humor as a bit of a Trojan horse — you get people laughing at certain behaviors or pain points — and it opens up a window to then deliver a deeper message.” Highlights from this week’s “Marketing Today” podcast include: Fishburne’s decision to move to Prague on a whim cured his aversion to risk and changed his life. (1:36) Fishburne describes his creative process. (3:31) Fishburne reveals the impetus behind his new book, “Your Ad Ignored Here” (6:42) The Jolly Green Giant and the disappearance of the captive audience. (8:27) The Shiny New Thing Syndrome — aka The Squirrel Phenomenon. (11:45) Fishburne finds humor in the friction of adapting. (19:22) The cartoon approach to content marketing. (23:34) Executive hoodies, anyone? Fishburne discusses his admiration for Betabrand (31:54) The future of marketing makes Fishburne think of “Minority Report.” (34:48) Support the show.

Welcome to episode #591 of Six Pixels Of Separation - The Mirum Podcast.  Here it is: Six Pixels Of Separation - The Mirum Podcast - Episode #591 - Host: Mitch Joel. There's this incredible feeling that you get from Tom Fishburne's comics about the marketing industry. Of course, they're funny. With that, they can be very biting (almost to the point of feeling that he's been using Alexa's technology to listen in on some of your meetings), and that is coupled with this opposing sense of care, empathy and love for the business. Hard and soft... at the same time. For years, he has been taking shots at just how much technology has impacted brands and consumers. With that, he doesn't just do it from his pencil. He's been a marketing professional for a long time (from large CPGs like General Mills and Nestle to Method and beyond). Now, he's more commonly known as the Marketoonist (and if you're in business, you do not want to miss his weekly hit), but he also runs a small agency providing business cartooning for clients. Most recently, Tom published his first book, Your Ad Ignored Here (which is a compilation of his work). It's an amazing anthology and you can, literally, see which technologies were happening at any given moment in time and just how much consumers (probably) have not changed (hint: hit them with ads as much as you like, they're just not that into you). Enjoy the conversation... Running time: 56:03. Hello from beautiful Montreal. Subscribe over at iTunes. Please visit and leave comments on the blog - Six Pixels of Separation. Feel free to connect to me directly on Facebook here: Mitch Joel on Facebook. or you can connect on LinkedIn. ...or on twitter. Six Pixels of Separation the book is now available. CTRL ALT Delete is now available too! Here is my conversation with Tom Fishburne. Your Ad Ignored Here. Marketoonist. Follow Tom on Twitter. This week's music: David Usher 'St. Lawrence River'. Download the Podcast here: Six Pixels Of Separation - The Mirum Podcast - Episode #591 - Host: Mitch Joel. Tags: advertising advertising podcast alexa amazon amazon alexa apple music audio audio branding blog blogging brand branding business business blog business book business podcast business thinker comic david usher digital marketing digital marketing agency digital marketing blog digital media facebook general mills google innovation itunes j walter thompson jwt leadership leadership podcast management management podcast marketing marketing blog marketing industry marketing podcast marketing professional marketing strategist marketing thought leader marketoonist media method mirum mirum agency mirum agency blog mirum blog mirum podcast nestle social media sonic branding spotify streaming technology tom fishburne twitter wpp your ad ignored here

Tom Fishburne, Founder and CEO of the Marketoonist, joins the Social Pros Podcast to discuss why niche cartoons have the greatest impact with your audience and how the best creativity is born from repetition. Special thanks to our sponsors: Salesforce Marketing Cloud (Magic Moments: How to Create Inspired Marketing to Amaze Your Customers: candc.dl/amazecustomers) Convince & Convert (Experience This! Show: experiencethisshow.com) Yext (The Everywhere Brand: http://offers.yext.com/everywherebrand) In This Episode How time and repetition, not urgency or inspiration, leads to creativity Why incorporating new marketing technology and social platforms doesn't mean just plugging it in to what you're already doing How Shiny New Thing Syndrome leads to a crippling of the creative process and subsequent marketing strategy Why the rise of technology means a whole new generation of a free audience How to find the V1 marker of launching a new career Resources Tom Fishburne on Twitter: @tomfishburne Marketoonist on Facebook and Twitter Your Ad Ignored Here Social Network Adoption 7 Deadly Sins of Innovation xkcd The DO Lectures Marketing Week Live 2017 Guests Achieve Artistic Guinness World Records Title Oreo's 'Daily Twist' Campaign Puts Cookie in Conversation Visit SocialPros.com for more insights from your favorite social media marketers.

Founder of Marketoonist and Author of "Your Ad Ignored Here" joins the Podcast live from the LinkedIn Lab at Festival of Marketing in London to discuss cartoons, content, and his brand new book.

CreativeChlld.com, Marketoonist, Swarm, Hubba, Facebook Messenger Day. Let's learn something about our own businesses through these blogging, social media, and tech news.

He thought that there was no way to make a living doing the thing he loved most of all. Seven years later - he’s proving them all wrong! “There's the old Joseph Campbell saying of follow your bliss. But the other part of that I've found is to market your bliss... figuring out on an entrepreneurial sense how to connect your work with other people you will value that work.” In this episode we speak to Tom Fishburne, CEO at Marketoonist, about the power that internal and external pressures can have on taking the entrepreneurial leap of faith. Drawing on 20 years of marketing experience - and a lifetime of cartooning - Tom shares insight into the collision of marketing and illustration, and how he learned to be comfortable going against the norm. Xero Gravity #72 - don’t miss it!

“If you try to appeal to everyone, you are not going to appeal to anyone” ~ Tom Fishburne In this episode I interviewed Cartoonist/Marketer Tom Fishburne of Marketoonist.com on the theme Branding & Content Marketing with Cartoons. Tom started cartooning on the backs of business cases as a student at Harvard Business School. While in various marketing roles at General Mills, Nestle, Method and HotelTonight, Tom parodied the world of marketing in a weekly cartoon. His cartoons have grown by word of mouth to reach 100,000 business readers each week and have been featured by the Wall Street Journal, Fast Company, Forbes, and the New York Times. Tom soon realized that cartoons are a remarkable form of shareable media. He launched Marketoonist to help large and small businesses such as Google, GE, Kronos, Motista, Rocketfuel, reach their audiences with cartoons. Tom is a frequent keynote speaker on innnovation, marketing and creativity, using cartoons, case studies, and his marketing career to tell the story visually. The Huffington Post ranked his South-By-Southwest (SXSW) talk the third best of the conference out of 500. RESOURCES: Marketoonist.com Rebrand: The Ultimate Guide to Personal Branding Why Every Entrepreneur Must Write A Book REPUTATION  MANAGEMENT: 99 Ways to Build and Boost Your Brand Visibility Bernard Kelvin Clive books  

Steve G. Jones board certified  Clinical Hypnotherapist .He has been practicing hypnotherapy since the 1980s. He is the author of 22 books on Hypnotherapy. He is a member of the National Guild of Hypnotists, American Board of Hypnotherapy, president of the American Alliance of Hypnotists, on the board of directors of the Los Angeles chapter of the American Lung Association, and director of the California state registered Steve G. Jones School of Hypnotherapy Bonita Richter MBA, small business consultant and coach with 30+ years experience in the world of business.  She provides business consulting and coaching to up-and-coming entrepreneurs who run small to mid-sized companies to help them achieve building a profitable business that makes a meaningful difference in the world — and creates an income and legacy for themselves. She is a recognized expert in strategy, entrepreneurship, sales, and drivers of business performance George McLaird has been retired from Parish ministry for 14 years but, he is busy doing things he love such as: spending time with family and friends, writing, teaching, traveling, conducting ceremonies and staying as healthy as possible everyday. He is the author of the book I Heard Your Afraid of Dying Tom Fishburne a marketer and cartoonist and runs an agency called Marketoonist that puts the two together.  Tom starting drawing cartoons on the backs of Harvard Business School cases as a student there.  After a career in marketing at General Mills, Nestle, and Method, Tom made the leap five years ago to start a business and pursue cartooning as a business.  With Marketoonist, Tom taps the talents of fellow cartoonists from the New Yorker and nationally syndicated strips to help brands that need storytelling

Welcome to episode #468 of Six Pixels Of Separation - The Mirum Podcast. We live in a world with so much content and creativity, that it's hard to remember what's most interesting. Still, every week, I can't wait for that one email with a new cartoon from Tom Fishburne. Every week, he publishes a new Marketoon (as he calls them). They're clever, funny and head-smacking true. With that, the former CPG and Method marketing professional, turned cartoon professional and has built not only a loyaly following, but a thriving agency creating business and marketing-related cartoons for brands. His agency is called, Marketoonist, and Tom is just one of those kind, honest and sincere people that you want to be around. Enjoy the conversation... Here it is: Six Pixels Of Separation - The Mirum Podcast - Episode #468 - Host: Mitch Joel. Running time: 49:00. Hello from beautiful Montreal. Subscribe over at iTunes. Please visit and leave comments on the blog - Six Pixels of Separation. Feel free to connect to me directly on Facebook here: Mitch Joel on Facebook. or you can connect on LinkedIn. ...or on twitter.  Six Pixels of Separation the book is now available. CTRL ALT Delete is now available too! Here's is the my conversation with Tom Fishburne Marketoonist. Marketoon. Follow Tom on Twitter. This week's music: David Usher 'St. Lawrence River'. Get David's song for free here: Artists For Amnesty. Download the Podcast here: Six Pixels Of Separation - The Mirum Podcast - Episode #468 - Host: Mitch Joel. Tags: advertising podcast audio blog blogging brand business book business podcast david usher digital marketing facebook innovation podcast j walter thompson jwt management podcast marketing podcast marketoon marketoonist method mirum mirum agency mirum podcast tom fishburne twitter wpp