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Description The Future of Tech is Here. Subscribe to our Newsletter:https://theultimatepartner.com/ebook-subscribe/ Check Out UPX:https://theultimatepartner.com/experience/ In this presentation from Ultimate Partner Live, industry analyst Jay McBain breaks down the monumental macroeconomic shifts rewriting the tech sector in 2026. https://youtu.be/r0qTDyw97Gs As the industry rapidly approaches a $6.07 trillion valuation, driven by massive AI infrastructure investments from Sam Altman and the “Magnificent Seven,” traditional sales and channel models are fundamentally collapsing. McBain reveals how buyer demographics have transformed to an integration-first millennial base, why marketplace ecosystems now command over half of all partner-funded deals, and how a tiny elite of just 1,000 tech service providers control two-thirds of global tech revenue. Learn the exact mechanics behind how Microsoft out-partnered AWS to win 26 straight quarters of dominant growth and how your business can deploy an algorithmic early warning system to capture massive wallet share before competitors even step into the boardroom. Key Takeaways Over half of the Fortune 500 companies vanish every 20 years because their leadership fails to anticipate macroeconomic technological cycles. The true opportunity in the $6.5 trillion AI boom lies not in single vendor products, but in the hardware, software, services, and telecom ecosystem surrounding them. Indirect tech sales are undergoing a structural shift toward direct cloud hyperscaler models driven heavily by Nvidia's core infrastructure client base. Modern business deals are won or lost months before the point of sale based on the average of 6.3 partners surrounding a customer’s environment. Over 51% of tech buyers are now millennials who prioritize software integration capabilities and digital marketplaces over traditional human sales interactions. Tech service economics are pivoting aggressively away from upfront margins toward point-based multi-partner funding across subscription cycles. If you're ready to lead through change, elevate your business, and achieve extraordinary outcomes through the power of partnership—this is your community. At Ultimate Partner® we want leaders like you to join us in the Ultimate Partner Experience – where transformation begins. Key Tags Nvidia AI buildout, $7 trillion AI opportunity, cloud ecosystem decade, Microsoft vs AWS growth, multi-partner cloud deals, digital marketplace migration, millennial B2B buyers, B2B tech subscription economics, tokenized micro consumption, tech services wallet share, hybrid cloud infrastructure, 28 customer moments, IT services industry growth, telecom spend breakdown, channel chief strategy, managed service providers MSP, global systems integrators GSI, software integration first, point-based vendor incentives, automated co-selling workflows Transcript JAY McBAIN AUDIO PODCAST [00:00:00] Jay McBain: So to go back to that story about the 53% of companies who are gonna fail, one of us is gonna be asked to write the book, but chapter one is always you Blame the CEO. [00:00:13] Vince Menzione: We just came back from Ultimate Partner live in Bellevue, Washington, where we hosted incredible leaders for two amazing days. Come join us for this next session where we explore the tectonic shifts we’ve all been seeing. With that, I am incredibly blessed to invite a friend of mine to the stage. I have a quick little side note, like I found an old LinkedIn post from this gentleman from like many years ago, like 20 years ago. [00:00:39] Vince Menzione: And I wasn’t really that nice to you on that LinkedIn post. Like, oh, like this is before Jay became the Jay, that we all know Jay to be j. But he was in the space and I was at Microsoft doing something and he reached out about something. It was kind of rude, Jay. I was like, oh my gosh. I can’t believe. But Jay has been a great friend. [00:00:54] Vince Menzione: When we started the podcast back up, uh, during COVID we started doing podcasts together. When we moved to the studio, Jay was the first person in the studio. He’s always got a spot, uh, at our events. He’s s Spot Art, and, and he’s a great friend and supporter of Ultimate Partner Jay McBain. For those of you who don’t know him, Jay, welcome. [00:01:13] Vince Menzione: Thank you, sir. [00:01:22] Jay McBain: 31 days ago, we landed Artemis two. The furthest humans have ever been away from the planet Earth 57 years ago. We landed on the moon in the 56 years. Between those two moments, the tech industry has been the fastest growing industry in the world. Every single year we moved from the space race to the technology race, and we’re just getting started. [00:01:46] Jay McBain: If you’re old enough, you’ll recognize the mainframe and mini era for 20 years. You’ll recognize a young disheveled Bill Gates showing up in Boca Raton, Florida for, uh, August the 12th, 1981 launch, where Bill thought that every one of us would’ve a PC in our home, and IBM thought they were gonna sell 10,000 of them to hobbyists. [00:02:12] Jay McBain: 1999, a small startup from an executive who just left Oracle in San Francisco named Mark Benioff. A couple of years later, Jeff Bezos went into a boardroom and said, listen, we’ve spent a lot of money building infrastructure to our busiest day, Christmas, black Friday. You’re telling me this stuff sits idle 10 or 20% for the rest of the year. [00:02:35] Jay McBain: Why don’t we rent that out to others? Got laughed outta that boardroom and then got made of fun of on magazine covers. Maybe you should just tend the store, let the adults talk about technology. In March of 2023, our neighbors, our friends, our family saw DeepFakes. They saw poetry, they saw music, and they came to us as tech people and said, did we just light up Skynet? [00:03:03] Jay McBain: Now every one of these 20 year eras, this is the Taylor Swift version of our industry. Every single one of these eras triggers the fastest growing product in history. Today it’s actually Chacha bt first to a billion users. It triggers a new, richest person in the world, bill Gates, to Jeff Bezos. Now, Elon Musk is the first to sign a trillion dollar pay package, and it’s not for car. [00:03:27] Jay McBain: It’s not for cars. It also triggers a most valuable company in the world change. And today that’s nvidia. These are monumental changes in our industry and they’re monumental changes in partnering every single time. And it also links to our customers. If you take a 20 year view of business, one era, and, and think about the AI era, you know, at the start of it here, if you’re to grab the Fortune 500 magazine from 20 years ago and start to flip through it, 53% of the companies in there no longer exist. [00:04:06] Jay McBain: Every 20 year cycle, we lose over half of the biggest companies in the world. These are the companies that have very deep pockets to buy their way outta problems. If you’re not in the Fortune 571% of tech companies don’t make it 10 years. These are the changes that cost industries. There are changes that cost really big companies and the decisions we make, the trends we’re in right now, in 2026 will be written about in the future. [00:04:39] Jay McBain: This new era, a lot of big numbers being thrown around. Vince’s best friend talk about a six and a half trillion dollar AI opportunity, but it’s not Microsoft’s tam. Microsoft is chasing about a trillion dollars of this. And the ecosystem, the hardware, the software, the services, the telecom is gonna make up the rest. [00:05:04] Jay McBain: It is an ecosystem. Every time these big numbers are thrown, the word ecosystem is always thrown around it. Not to be outdone, Sam Altman’s talking about a $7 trillion build out. The world economy this year, the world GDP will be 126. These are material numbers to world GDP, but even better, they’re both larger than our entire industry is today. [00:05:27] Jay McBain: So what took 56 years of the fastest growing industry this year will be $6.07 trillion. Big numbers, but it’s easier to think about it in terms of a dollar that our customers spend in that dollar. They’re gonna spend 25 cents on hardware. They’re gonna spend 25 cents on software. So for anyone that read the memo 15 years ago, that software’s gonna eat the world, there’s still a dollar a hardware to run every dollar of that software. [00:05:57] Jay McBain: And whether you’re thinking humanoid robots or whichever future you’re envisioning, there’s going to be a dollar of hardware to run every dollar of software for the next 20 years. There’s over 25 cents now in IT services, and in many cases, these services are growing faster than the product categories and just under 25 cents in telecom, that’s how it breaks out today. [00:06:19] Jay McBain: And this industry, which took 56 years to get to this point, is gonna double in size in the next three to five years. We already have two and a half trillion of that seven raised and being spent. Part of the reason Nvidia is the most valuable company in the world. Now our industry, uh, you talk about ultimate partnerships. [00:06:40] Jay McBain: Our industry traditionally, and world trade by the way, is 75% indirect. The dealerships, the agencies, the brokers, the resellers, the retailers, the franchisees, the gas stations, the grocery stores, the pharmacies, all 27 industries sell indirect. You gotta think back the last time you bought something direct. [00:07:01] Jay McBain: Well, I bought a Dell from that dude in the nineties. Cool. Well, Dell Technologies is now 60% indirect. Well, I bought insurance. Direct is 15 minutes. Could save me 15%. Well, Geico last year sold more insurance through agencies and brokers than they did direct. This is the world now. We used to be 75% indirect four years ago. [00:07:26] Jay McBain: Then it went to 73.2, then it went to 70.1 and it then it went to 66.7. By the way, marketplace is in these numbers indirect. It’s not marketplace causing this change. It’s one company, Nvidia. Nvidia has seven customers. The magnificent seven, uh, half of them are in the room right now that every morning we wake up to a hundred billion dollars press release about this $7 trillion buildout. [00:07:56] Jay McBain: What’s interesting is indirect sales in our industry is growing by revenue. It increases every year, just not at the pace that this AI build out is happening direct with seven companies. But the reason we’re all here, and I think the core reason that Vince is building this community is this, you know, Microsoft forever has measured and been very vocal. [00:08:21] Jay McBain: About 96% of their deals have partners in them. Kind of who cares, who collects the money. We care about the moments, the 28 moments before the customer makes a purchase. We care about every 30 days forever, because two thirds of our industry, over $4 trillion now is subscription consumption based. Winning a customer today is only winning the first 30 days. [00:08:46] Jay McBain: We care about this cycle. We care about who surrounds our customer. So six years ago, I stood on a big stage and said, you know, we went through a decade of sales. You know, in 1999, you thought you were born to be a salesperson. You’re managing your territory with your gut. Well, a few years later, you were introduced to the science of selling. [00:09:07] Jay McBain: You know, 10 years later you thought as a marketer, you sit around a cocktail party joking with your friends, 50% of my marketing dollars are wasted. I just don’t know which 50%. Really funny. In 2009 until every 58-year-old CMO got replaced by a 38-year-old growth hacker. Coming in with Marketo and Eloqua and Pardot and HubSpot, and 15,505 as of yesterday, MarTech and iTech tools, ninjas in marketing, they wouldn’t let a nickel go through without measuring. [00:09:43] Jay McBain: Now we understand 96% of deals and partners that surround it. No deal is gonna be won or lost in this era without partnering effectively. So we had to have this decade of the ecosystem. One of the ways we’re tracking is by outsiders. You know, Salesforce every year publishes the state of sales and they’ve got, you know, the number one CRM in the world. [00:10:05] Jay McBain: So they get to go talk to all the CROs, all the salespeople in the world. And as of this year, a couple months ago, 94% of every salesperson in every industry in the world uses partners every single day. You wanna see what this number was six years ago. Also, 89% of salespeople around the world don’t think they’re going to club this year without partners. [00:10:29] Jay McBain: So this is a big moment for us, halfway through the decade ecosystem, but we’re only halfway through. We’re starting to understand now at a more granular level. What partnering means. It’s not theory, it’s not flywheels. It’s not really cute. McKinsey slides that we keep showing to our board saying how important partnering is. [00:10:51] Jay McBain: We’re trying to get to the very specific level of the 6.3 partners on average that surround the deal and what they’re doing. How their business model works, and that’s average if I’m working on a public sector deal. I was at a Red Hat conference yesterday talking sovereignty. If I’m in an enterprise or a large public sector deal, it’s north of 10 partners in the deal. [00:11:15] Jay McBain: So we’re starting to understand what used to be this, this, you know, you’ve been the fastest growing industry for 56 straight years. Every single professional services person in every industry has come in to join the fund. Over 90% of accountants are tech services firms. Over 90% of marketing agencies are tech services agencies. [00:11:36] Jay McBain: All of this 250,000 software companies, a million emerging comp tech companies, the half a million VAR that have been in that traditional channel. The managed service providers, all of these 20 different partner types, millions of companies, tens of millions of people competing for 6.3 spots. Around the customer. [00:11:58] Jay McBain: That’s it. Luckily, there’s 141 million global customers to compete for. There’s, there’s some open slots that you can go find, and that’s the point. Our industry never had our own Fortune 500. We always talk to, you know, these partners and GSIs are doing this and SI are doing that. And we never really had a view of capability and capacity or what our own TAM was inside of that partnering. [00:12:25] Jay McBain: And so we set out and we would’ve loved, you know, chat GPT or Gemini or Claude or any of those tools to do this. But there’s one problem in partnering with AI is that it doesn’t know one partner from the next. There’s a big digital sameness problem in our industry that every single partner, whether it’s Larry in the White van or Accenture, with 786,000 employees all say they do all things to all people all the time. [00:12:53] Jay McBain: 98% of them, 99% of them are private companies that don’t share their p and l. You can’t go into Microsoft’s LinkedIn system and find out how many employees, ’cause it’s a block system, it AI can’t see into it. So it just sees, and it’s a great pattern matching. Google, SEO can’t figure out who’s who, nor today can the large language models. [00:13:14] Jay McBain: ’cause all the things they’re trying to match, the transformers are trying to match. It all looks the same. Every tweet, every ebook, every website, every digital history looks the same. So this took us thousands of people hours across two years to do, to dig into every p and l to dig into every dollar of what they’re doing. [00:13:33] Jay McBain: But what was interesting is only a thousand partners in our industry do two thirds of all tech services. When you get into enterprise, it goes up to 80 to 90%. The partners in the middle, in Blue do more tech services. The 30 of them than the 970 partners in white on the outside, the 970 partners in White do more tech services than the next million combined. [00:14:03] Jay McBain: This is our industry in a nutshell. Every time we talk to a a vendor, every time we talk to a partner, every time we talk to a distributor, we’re now talking names, faces, and places. You you wanna talk sovereignty. Yesterday in Atlanta, 90% of sovereign conversations in public sector in the globe is handled by these companies here. [00:14:26] Jay McBain: Forget about how much you do with these partners today. You wanna chase the next column, which is the wallet share. And I was a channel chief for 17 years. I get the weekly report and I see a million dollar partner, another million dollar partner, sorted top to bottom. You don’t know which partners which, which of those million dollar partners is doing 1.2 million in your category. [00:14:46] Jay McBain: They deserve a baseball cap and a front row seat at your event as an MVP. The next partner right next to them is doing 10 million in your category. They’re only doing a million with you. ’cause customers are pulling them into it. Nine times outta 10. They’re leading with your competitor. So I don’t want that list anymore. [00:15:03] Jay McBain: I want the new list, which is showing me those $9 million opportunities. And I as a board member, as A CEO, as a CFO, as a CRO, I wanna see this list. And then I want to talk people, processes, programs, technology. What are we gonna do to go get our fair share of that 9 million? Where’s our lowest hanging fruit? [00:15:24] Jay McBain: How do we double our pipeline? How do we double the size of our company in three years? It’s all right here. Let’s have very specific conversations and move away from flywheels and move around from force multipliers and and things like that in partnering. Let’s figure out how this partner community is surrounded. [00:15:45] Jay McBain: What do 10 million people who have to be smart in front of their customers every single day, what do they read? Where do they go and who do they follow? It’s the law of a few. This is the old Malcolm Gladwell of tipping point 10 million people in the broader channel. A hundred percent of our TAM comes down to only a thousand watering holes. [00:16:08] Jay McBain: 12% of that entire audience. Doesn’t sound like a lot, but it’s over A million. People love podcasts. Number one way they learn the Joe Rogan effect. In our industry, there’s 121 podcasts. These are all public lists. You can go get on my LinkedIn newsletter on canals, oia. But there’s 121 podcasts that drive him forward. [00:16:28] Jay McBain: Really high up on that list, actually number one on the list is ultimate partner, Vince. That’s how I met. ’cause I asked people, 10 million people, you love this. You walk your dog, you drive to work, you listen to podcasts. I’m not the biggest podcast fan. It’s not number one on my list, but it’s number one on theirs. [00:16:44] Jay McBain: They say, you know, you gotta meet this guy, Vince. It’s unbelievable how great these podcasts are. They’re ultimate. [00:16:54] Jay McBain: Then I talked to Vince and said, but Vince, you know, 35% of your community, the 10 million people love to come to events like this one. The hallway conversations, the hotel lobby bar last night. This is what we love to do, especially post pandemic. It’s the number one way we learn. We learn from our peers, we learn from those around us, and, and the learn from the conversations we have here. [00:17:17] Jay McBain: We always remember these moments, you know, years and years later. There’s 352 choices. I’m going to five of them this week in five different cities. It’s a lot of coverage, but again, it’s a tighter li list of how people work. The magazine lists 106 of them associations like Conter. Now the GTIA peer groups, there’s 15 different spheres of influence, but only a thousand places. [00:17:43] Jay McBain: I could walk you through billionaire, after billionaire, after billionaire in this industry and show you how they did this. How did Arne Bellini at ConnectWise? How did Austin McCord at Datto, how did Nerdio become a unicorn? How did threat locker and huntress move away from 6,500 cyber companies and become unicorns over and over and over again? [00:18:05] Jay McBain: It’s only one slide. Unicorns and billionaires are made here, and a lot of people don’t get it. So walking away from Bellevue, a thousand partners, top down, a thousand watering holes, bottoms up. You’ve covered a hundred percent of your tam. You do it better than 10% of your competitor, 10% better than your competitors. [00:18:27] Jay McBain: You win. You carry that on your resume into the next company. You get a bigger job at a bigger pay scale. Let’s just walk through some examples. Cyber 91.7% of it goes through the channel. Huge channel audience. You know, if you’re in MarTech, it’s only 10%, but this one happens to be all channel, but that’s not the story. [00:18:48] Jay McBain: For every dollar that the 6,500 cyber companies are trying to close, there’s $2 in services. Plot twist, the products are grown at 11, the services are grown at 12.6. Your partners are growing faster than you are, and they will continue to for the next, at least five years, probably 10. So when I’m here, five years from now, you’ll hear in me talk about a three to one split in cyber and then a four to one split in cyber. [00:19:18] Jay McBain: Now, when we’re in Miami a couple days ago is CrowdStrike, they’re talking about a $7 and 5 cent multiplier, chasing that two to one up higher. You look at managed services. Here’s a fun story. Managed services. 82% of customers who are man, uh, outsourcing more this year than last year. 650 billion in size. [00:19:38] Jay McBain: This is bigger than the entire SaaS industry. Salesforce, ServiceNow, Workday, Marketo, NetSuite, HubSpot, 250,000. Others. This is bigger. It’s also bigger than all the Hyperscalers combined, not just AWS, Microsoft and Google, but Alibaba and Oracle and everybody down the list. This is a massive market also growing at double digits. [00:19:59] Jay McBain: So these are some big things and obviously we’re watching, you know, week in and week out, quarter in, quarter out, the Battle of Software and Battle of the Hyperscalers and things like that, and who’s growing at what pace and, and how partnering is connecting to all of this. You know, we watched a moment really early in the pandemic where Microsoft started growing faster than AWS and they haven’t stopped since 26 straight quarters. [00:20:27] Jay McBain: And you ask customers and say, you know, does Microsoft have a better product? And in most cases they say no. You know, AWS had a five year head start. Well, did they have a better price? Well, no, actually most cases Microsoft’s more expensive. Well, did did they have better promotion? Was their Super Bowl ad better? [00:20:44] Jay McBain: No, they’re both kind of crap. So you kind of ask the questions of what’s the only difference that could create growth above the leader in the market? Well, it’s place. More of the 6.3 partners are walking into those keyboard room meetings and drawing clouds up on the wall and labeling the Microsoft than they are AWS. [00:21:03] Jay McBain: Very simple. It’s never been about product. The best product in our industry has never won. And now the best way forward is that partnering moment, and this is the moment. So to go back to that story about the 53% of companies who are gonna fail, one of us is gonna be asked to write the book. And it could be the book like Kodak, they invented the product that ended up killing them. [00:21:26] Jay McBain: And it’s a woe is me story, but chapter one is always you blame the CEO. How could they not see those trends happening in 2026? How could they, you know, were they blind? Were they stuck in their own, you know, innovation chamber? Innovator’s dilemma, were they stuck in their own boardrooms? Why couldn’t they see? [00:21:46] Jay McBain: Well, chapter two, you, you blame the board. They have fiduciary responsibility, outsider view, and how could they not see it? But really, this is the future right here. If you take this slide and apply it 10 or 20 years from now to every failure and every success, these are the chapters of the book. Your buyer is now a millennial. [00:22:05] Jay McBain: As of last year, the 51% of our market is bought by people born after 1982. Different psychology, different behavior, different journey, different criteria, their integration. First buyers. The buy a product, 80% as good as the next one. If it works better in their environment. 94% of people won’t buy a car unless it has CarPlay or Android Auto. [00:22:26] Jay McBain: New Buyer. You have to be more integrated than your competitors. That’s a partnering story. The 6.3 partners. If you heard cyber, you need some great channel partnerships, but you need the other 5.3 partners as well, the consultants, the advisors, the designers, the architects, the implementers, the integrators, the manner service, all of the other partners. [00:22:44] Jay McBain: You need to know more of them than your competitors do, and have them label clouds with your name in them. You need better alliances. Even if you compete, you only compete in the morning. You’re best friends by the afternoon. You have to be tight with the hyperscalers, tight, with the big SaaS platforms, tight with cyber, tight with distribution, there are layers, seven layers to every deal. [00:23:04] Jay McBain: You gotta be tight in and have better alliances than your competitors. And then it all comes to the 28 moments, which I’m gonna end on, but the go to market of all of this, the co-selling, co-marketing, co-innovation, co-development, co keeping. This is it. Your product has to be good enough that somebody’s gonna renew it. [00:23:21] Jay McBain: Your Super Bowl has to be, you know, ad has to be good enough that people don’t, you know, shame you on social media. Your pricing has to be somewhere in a country mile of the bell curve of what the customer wants to pay. But successor failure is just here and platforms are synonymous with partnering. [00:23:40] Jay McBain: It’s our role now in the decade of the ecosystem to drive our companies forward. Marketplace. It’s probably the most predict, you know, great prediction we ever made. You know, growing at 82% compounded, it’s hard to predict ’cause it doubles almost every year. We were almost exact to the decimal point. Five years later now till 2030, we’re watching a second story, which is more interesting. [00:24:02] Jay McBain: If 96% of all deals have partners inside of them and there’s private offers and multi-partner offers and distributor sellers record all these funding mechanisms or services as a product. As of last week, over 50% of all deals in marketplaces now have partner funding. It means that while money changes hands differently, the respect and the recognition of what partners do is in the deal. [00:24:26] Jay McBain: We think that’s going to 59, but at some point, that’s gonna have to hit 96. ’cause to run the best programs, whether it’s an indirect sale, whether it’s a direct sale, whether it’s a marketplace deal, it doesn’t matter how money changes hands. What matters is we recognize the 6.3 partners. They’re not only making the deal happen bigger and faster, but renewing and enriching that every 30 days forever. [00:24:48] Jay McBain: When we watch, you know, billion dollar clubs and when we read all the press releases and all the hubbub about how fast this is growing and who, which companies are behind all this. When I’m quoted in some of these press releases, it’s because of this. You know, CrowdStrike, you know, brags are a billion dollars in a single year, but inside of that, they’re showing that 91% growth in marketplaces, which is pretty phenomenal for any company to almost double in size every single year. [00:25:17] Jay McBain: What’s more phenomenal is they’re growing the channel piece of it, 3548%. That green part of it is growing. Companies that understand platform and have people and processes and programs and technology to do it are winning. And they’re getting recognition and partners are starting to join the Billion Dollar Club who don’t sell a product, but are also winning at Extreme Scale. [00:25:44] Jay McBain: So talk about those partner 1000 and who are leaning in to win at this level. As well as everything changes, traditional billing moved into subscription models, moved into consumption models. Now we’re being tokenized to death multi it’s, it’s in this mode of micro consumption. There’s no chance there was little chance in subscription consumption that would be resold. [00:26:09] Jay McBain: You don’t buy Netflix from the cable guy in the white van. There’s zero chance when you’re buying tokens at a buck a piece that that’s going through any indirect sale. This continues to grow. Now the tectonic shifts is what happens when money changes hands differently. These old programs that we used to all write hundreds of different boxes, we checked every day on deal reg and trainings and all the other things are changing. [00:26:35] Jay McBain: To this, you’ll get these slides, by the way, in high res, inside of this now is the customer. For the first time ever, 45 years later, we have the customer in the middle of what we do, the 28 moments in green before they buy the seven layer stack and the partners inside it. The implementation. The integration, the managed services in a cycle that never ends, and two thirds of our industry. [00:26:55] Jay McBain: With the customer in the middle, we can now move money around to the different moments. It’s not all landing in front or backend margins or market development funds or new customer bonuses or spiffs. It’s landing where it needs to land. Over 400 companies now, pretty much led by Microsoft 400 companies are in a point system right now and 400 more. [00:27:18] Jay McBain: We’re working kind of behind the scenes to get that announced in the next 12 months. This is a total changeover in terms of how economics work and partners are yelling over half of us. I don’t care. Don’t call me a VAR anymore. Don’t call me an MSP. Don’t call me a regional system integrator. I do the consulting over half the time. [00:27:36] Jay McBain: I do the design, I do the implementations, I do the managed services, and 44% of us are vibe coding. On weekends. We’re not happy. Just on the services side. We wanna join the seven layer tech stack as well. These are partners growing faster than their vendors by understanding this cycle and where to show up and where the money is in ai. [00:27:56] Jay McBain: And the number one thing they’re asking for is not more leads, which they did for 45 years. The number one thing is now recognized for what I do. I’ve never just been a cash register. We’re completely now past this idea of a channel being a channel of distribution, and now a channel being this platform for the future. [00:28:16] Jay McBain: As we lay that on top of ai, the first couple of years of AI has really been consumer driven. The 95% failure rate that MIT reported last year is now 70%. That’s the failure to get from proof of concept to production. That 70 will be 50 by the summer we’re moving now in business, the maturity rates are going up at the end customer and in 88% of cases, that’s because of the channel. [00:28:43] Jay McBain: They’re working with partners. They’re not vibe coding themselves and working in little skunkwork groups. They’re working with partners to make it happen, and it now becomes the partner’s number one growth opportunity. I can grow at 11 or 12% in cyber every year. Compounded I can grow in 10% in managed services. [00:29:03] Jay McBain: You know, those are great double digit growth ’cause my customers are growing at 2.7% and I can go four x my customer, but I can go 10 x my customer if I have the right services built around ai. And this compounded growth rate and that big number in 2 20 32, 267 is what’s got those top 1000 partners obsessed. [00:29:25] Jay McBain: And your companies are leading with ai. Now you need to connect to those AI services. You need to get partners on this scale of growth. And they will be adding your name inside every cloud. They write on every whiteboard, but 82% of partners around the world, you know, we survey 25,000 of them aren’t ready, and they’re blaming vendors for not being ready, and they’re telling them exactly the workshops and the training that they need to get ready for this cycle. [00:29:53] Jay McBain: 82% of our entire partner, tens of millions of people, aren’t ready to grow at 35% and they need our help. Last thing I’ll say about AI is it’s the first time from client server to cloud, edge to cloud that it’s been segment driven. SMB alone has one, you know, six different segments, one to nine, 10 to 24, 25 to 49, et cetera. [00:30:18] Jay McBain: Mid-market into enterprise. No one that runs a restaurant is calling Jensen to buy a GPU to put next to the stove. No one’s calling Sam or Dario or anyone at Anthropic or OpenAI directly. They’re waiting. If you run a restaurant with all the people running around with tablets, you’ve invested in toast or square or clover or one of the platforms to run your business. [00:30:41] Jay McBain: A hundred different things. And you’re gonna wait for toast to work with a hyperscaler and build out the capabilities genetically. So when they see a spike in Uber Eats orders, they automatically place a food order and automatically change the staffing to deliver on it. That’s what the restaurant’s waiting for, and there’s no one calling and having a big a agent conversation. [00:31:03] Jay McBain: But even if you go into hundreds of people in medium sized business, every one of the vice presidents have their tech stack already built. I talked about the marketing person already, but the HR leader has one, and everybody’s got their seven layer stack. They’re not calling to buy a GPU and they’re not calling to, you know, bring in open AI directly or, or anthropic. [00:31:22] Jay McBain: They’re waiting for the platform they built to integrate together ag agenta capabilities. Everybody’s in wait mode up until enterprise and public, large public sector. So we are looking at this market and at 90% of that AI market is run by those thousand companies, and the rest of the millions of partners are helping in terms of how these businesses are gonna change at that level. [00:31:46] Jay McBain: Here’s where I end. You know, the 28 moments used to be a theory. It used to be a flywheel. How do we buy a car? [00:31:55] Vince Menzione: Well, we Google it, [00:31:57] Jay McBain: 81% of us now, 94% of us use large language models. We find out that there’s 365 brands of car. I’d have to test drive one every day of the year to get through them all. So we start narrowing these things down. [00:32:09] Jay McBain: We configure it. We put our rims on it, we color it. We download the invoice price. We download the backend rebates this month, whether I buy it in May or June, we find out what 5,000 people paid for our exact car within 50 miles of us. And then we don’t wanna go to the dealer because we know more than the salesperson, the manager ever will. [00:32:26] Jay McBain: We know what we’re gonna pay within, you know, dollars or cents. Just carvana the car. Hand me the keys. Let’s just forget the whole eight hour back and forth. I’ll get you a deal thing. I’m smarter than you in technology. Our customers are smarter than us, smarter than salespeople. That’s why 75% of millennials don’t wanna talk to a salesperson. [00:32:48] Jay McBain: They want to end digitally, and by the way, they’re not gonna send a fax after 28 digital moments. They’re gonna end on a digital marketplace. This is all demographics. It’s not hard to see where it’s going, but we’re getting into names, faces, places again. What if every dollar of your tam, the board, the CEO, runs around with their big multi-billion dollar number, they’re chasing? [00:33:09] Jay McBain: What if every single deal looks the exact same? This is a deal with AstraZeneca, A real deal, real customer spending millions of dollars. We know it starts in October, it ends in April. It’s a six month cycle. We see what they read, the MQ ls at the beginning. We see the sales demo moments. We see ISV, but we’ve never had the light blue boxes. [00:33:30] Jay McBain: What if we as a team could overlay the 6.3 partners in this deal? And when you find out a couple things. Here’s where I end. In December, five deals were one, three of them by NTT. The person at NTT probably coaches AstraZeneca’s, you know, kids’ soccer team. They probably have a cottage together at the lake. [00:33:50] Jay McBain: For the last 20 years, if the person at NTT worked at Deloitte, Deloitte would’ve run this deal. But Software One and Yash are both there, so we understand that when they were drawing clouds up on the wall in the boardroom in December, this deal was won and lost there. It was not won and lost at the point of sale. [00:34:09] Jay McBain: So what if you knew more about this and could see every dollar in your tam? You had an early warning system that this was happening. Two things jump out at this now that we’re in Bellevue. AWS was touched twice in this deal, directly in the marketing cycle and the sales cycle. AWS lost this deal. Here’s an example of Microsoft winning a deal with Microsoft never being touched. [00:34:34] Jay McBain: For some reason, NTT who won, who won AWS’s partner of the year a couple years ago led with Microsoft, so did Software one, Microsoft’s biggest reseller in Europe, and as did Yash, they all led with Microsoft and without Microsoft, knowing Microsoft took a multimillion dollar deal away from their competitors by winning in December. [00:34:53] Jay McBain: That’s one. Second. These partners didn’t just show up other than soccer and cottages. They didn’t show up in December. It went closed one in their CRM system. Back in the summer, August, September, we already knew AstraZeneca was in market, spending millions of dollars. We didn’t need them to read an ebook or go to an event to find that out. [00:35:17] Jay McBain: We knew it because it was closed one. They’re spending hundreds of thousands of dollars times five in December to know what to do at the end. This is an early warning system that’s better than any MQL, better than any SQL. And if you could give your company these level of view into their pipeline with an early warning system that I can work with those partners for months before they ever show up at the customer’s boardroom. [00:35:44] Jay McBain: This is it. Talk about 47% winners. This takes you from not only surviving the AI era to being a top five platform winner. Thank you very much. [00:36:01] Vince Menzione: Until next time, we’ll see you in person. Hopefully at our next event.

We have another guest this week! Our GTM Engineering Lead, Xander Broeffle joins us for a conversation on various tools and tech and how they are adapting in today's market. First, could Zoominfo be back from the dead with their new GTM.ai? Can agents find this data without ZI or does ZI have an edge? Then, Xander covers some Clay use cases we've been seeing in clients and discusses recent updates. Finally, can Marketo turn the ship around and release actually useful AI features? Let's dive in! This week: 0:00 Intro 5:00 ZoomInfo's new GTM.AI 21:05 Clay Updates 39:30 Can Marketo Turn the Ship Around? Hear more from us: Subscribe to us on Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCN-x5u0G03LWmU0Ds_4zR8w Subscribe to our newsletter here: https://www.cs2marketing.com/revenue-growth-architects#subscribe-to-newsletter Follow Crissy on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/crveteresaunders/ Follow Charlie on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/charliesaunders/

For more thoughts, clips, and updates, follow Avetis Antaplyan on Instagram: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/avetisantaplyan⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠In this episode of The Tech Leader's Playbook, Avetis Antaplyan sits down with Bruce Cleveland, a venture capitalist, former CMO, Chief Executive Officer, engineering executive, author, and creator of the Market Engineering framework. Bruce has helped build and scale major technology companies including Oracle, Apple, Siebel, and C3 AI, and has invested early in companies such as Marketo, Workday, and Doximity before they became category-defining successes.The conversation explores what separates legendary technology leaders from average executives, why most startups misunderstand traction, and how market engineering can become the difference between burning capital and building enduring demand. Bruce shares behind-the-scenes lessons from working with leaders like Tom Siebel, why category creation requires naming and framing a problem, and how founders can create market appetite before pouring money into demand generation.Avetis and Bruce also discuss the future of AI, why expertise may become the ultimate moat, the rising importance of forward deployed engineers, and why product engineering alone is no longer enough. Bruce closes with insights from his books, including Traversing the Traction Gap and Market Engineering, offering founders and executives a practical roadmap for building markets that do not yet exist.TakeawaysLegendary companies rarely feel obvious while they are being built. Even inside Oracle's early days, the path forward was filled with uncertainty.Great leaders attract great talent by building a mission, culture, and problem worth committing to.Bruce's framework starts with naming and framing the problem so the market can understand, remember, and adopt the category.The best executives build deep networks that act like external sensors, helping them “see around corners.”Bruce invested early in companies like Marketo by focusing on business problems he understood before obvious market traction existed.Startups should not confuse product-market fit with market-product fit. The market must want what the product provides.In the AI era, expertise becomes more valuable because humans still provide judgment, context, accountability, and nuanced decision-making.Chapters00:00 Introduction to Bruce Cleveland01:02 Lessons from Oracle's Early Days03:50 What Great Founders and Leaders Still Get Right05:13 The Power and Difficulty of Category Creation10:22 Building a Category Without an Existing Brand13:33 Bruce's Three-Step Category Creation Framework18:30 Leadership Lessons from Tom Siebel24:13 What Separates Great Executives from Average Ones28:47 What Bruce Looks for as an Early-Stage Investor36:19 Market Engineering vs. Demand Engineering44:22 Testing Demand Before Overbuilding Product53:11 Why Expertise Is the Real Moat in the AI EraBruce Cleveland's Social Media Link:https://www.linkedin.com/in/brucecleveland/Bruce Cleveland's Website Link:https://www.tractiongappartners.com/Resources and Links:⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.hireclout.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.podcast.hireclout.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.linkedin.com/in/hirefasthireright⁠

Bruce Cleveland has operated at the center of several major shifts in enterprise technology: Oracle's early growth, the creation of enterprise CRM at Siebel Systems, the rise of SaaS through investments like Marketo and Workday, and now the restructuring of software markets through AI. This conversation focuses on a core idea behind those experiences: strong products alone rarely create market leaders. Cleveland argues that "product engineering is table stakes." The differentiator is what he calls market engineering: category design, positioning, messaging, storytelling, and thought leadership working together as a disciplined operating model led by the CEO, not just marketing. The discussion explores why companies struggle when they compete inside someone else's category, why distinctive language matters in gaining investor and customer attention, and why storytelling remains a strategic capability in technology businesses. Several practical themes emerge: Why category leaders capture a disproportionate share of market economics How positioning determines whether a company fits naturally into a customer's technology stack Why many firms waste capital on demand generation before establishing market relevance Which non-revenue signals executives should monitor before scaling go-to-market spending How AI is changing search, customer discovery, and software economics Why expertise and judgment remain valuable even as technical capabilities become easier to replicate Cleveland also explains why senior professionals should not underestimate the value of their experience in an AI-driven environment. His view is that the advantage increasingly comes from the ability to guide systems intelligently, not simply operate tools. For founders, executives, investors, and strategy leaders, this episode offers a practical framework for understanding how markets are defined, how companies earn durable differentiation, and why strategic narrative now matters as much as technology itself. Get Bruce's book, Market Engineering, here: https://tinyurl.com/4etpknu9 Claim your free gift: Free gift #1 McKinsey & BCG winning resume www.FIRMSconsulting.com/resumePDF Free gift #2 Breakthrough Decisions Guide with 25 AI Prompts www.FIRMSconsulting.com/decisions Free gift #3 Five Reasons Why People Ignore Somebody www.FIRMSconsulting.com/owntheroom Free gift #4 Access episode 1 from Build a Consulting Firm, Level 1 www.FIRMSconsulting.com/build Free gift #5 The Overall Approach used in well-managed strategy studies www.FIRMSconsulting.com/OverallApproach Free gift #6 Get a copy of Nine Leaders in Action, a book we co-authored with some of our clients: www.FIRMSconsulting.com/gift

What's up everyone, today we have the pleasure of sitting down with Ashley Langford, Marketing Operations and RevOps Leader.Summary: Ashley Langford has every credential the MOps job search advice says you're supposed to have: 2 Marketo Champion designations, a decade of B2B SaaS experience across multiple industries, a strong community presence, and a track record of building functions from scratch. She's still getting auto-rejected within minutes and ghosted by companies she was genuinely excited about. In this episode, she breaks down what the MOps job search actually looks like in 2026 from the inside, including how she uses Claude to build an interview packet before every meeting, why she has a hard line against unpaid take-home projects, and how the director-level search carries friction points that most job search content ignores entirely. She also says something most practitioners won't say out loud: she realized she was performing confidence instead of having it. If you're in a search right now, or know someone who is, this one is worth your full attention.About Ashley LangfordAshley Langford is a Director of Marketing Operations and 2-time Marketo Champion who has built and led MOps functions from scratch across B2B SaaS companies including LastPass, Integrate, HackerRank, GreenSky, and Waystar. Her work spans fintech, insurance, biotech, and HR technology, with deep expertise in Marketo, Salesforce, 6sense, and Looker. Adobe's Marketo Champion program selects around 40 practitioners globally each year; Ashley has earned the designation twice, in 2020 and 2023, and is also a Marketo Revvie Award Finalist.What Nobody Warns You About When You Get Laid OffThe shame of a layoff hits in a specific, quiet way that almost nobody includes in the public job search conversation. It doesn't look like despair. It doesn't stop you from applying, updating the resume, or showing up to the networking calls. It just tilts you. You overexplain the layoff in interviews. You hedge when confidence is what the moment requires. You walk in grateful to be considered instead of knowing what you're worth.Ashley Langford is 4 months into a search that should, by any rational measure, be going better. She has 2 Marketo Champion designations, a decade of track record across multiple industries, and genuine community presence. Her time at LastPass ended in a layoff that was clearly business-driven following the company's public turbulence. None of that insulated her from the quiet voice that arrives anyway.She didn't recognize it immediately. It took a few conversations before she saw what was happening. "I was performing confidence instead of actually having it," she says. For someone whose professional identity is built on expertise and results, that admission is uncomfortable. But naming it is where you start. You can't correct what you haven't acknowledged.The market doesn't help. Ashley has the credentials, the community ties, and the network. She's done what the standard job search advice prescribes. She's still getting auto-rejected within minutes and ghosted by companies she was genuinely excited about. "I haven't been ghosted this much since I was on Tinder like 12 years ago," she says. "At least then I knew why."The honest accounting: being well-credentialed matters inside the MOps community, where a Marketo Champion designation opens doors with people who know what it means. Outside that community, there are plenty of doors where it doesn't register. And the external recruiter pipeline, which used to generate steady inbound interest for practitioners at her level, has gone almost completely quiet. That drought is a real signal about what's happening in this market. The job posting numbers don't capture it.The practitioners who move through a senior search with the most clarity tend to be the ones who name what they're carrying early. The public-facing posture, excited about what's next, lots of great conversations, is one layer. The private reality of a Wednesday afternoon is another. Closing that gap starts with honesty about the performance, not just the tactics.Key takeaway: Name the performance gap before your search does it for you. After your next interview, write down 1 moment where you hedged, over-explained, or undersold your work. Identify the specific claim you avoided making. Draft the version with a number attached, and practice saying it without softening it until it sounds like your default.Where the MOps Job Search Actually Happens in 2026The job search advice is consistent about channels. LinkedIn, niche job boards, the hidden market through direct outreach and community presence, networking as a KPI. The framework is reasonable. What's harder to find is how it actually plays out for a practitioner with a specific profile in a specific market.Ashley's day starts on LinkedIn. New postings first, then the feed, because hiring managers sometimes announce open roles informally before they list them. From there: VC-backed job boards, which surface companies building fast. She's tried the Ashby job board search technique and found listings that hadn't appeared anywhere else. Greenhouse, the ATS platform, now has a cross-company search function that most people haven't found yet.After all of it, where are actual responses coming from? LinkedIn. The hidden job market is real and worth working. It's also producing less than the visible one right now. Anyone spending most of their search trying to unlock doors not listed on job boards while ignoring the platform still generating replies is optimizing against their own results.On conversations as the primary KPI, Ashley's take is more nuanced than the standard advice. She's gotten jobs through her network before. The approach works. But it requires having the kind of network that actually moves for you: people who will pick up the phone and make a call, not just say they'll keep an eye out. "The ratio depends on your network that you've actually built, not the one that you wish you have," she says.There's a structural wrinkle for MOps practitioners specifically. MOps people tend to be industry-agnostic, which is part of what makes the role valuable. Ashley has worked in fintech, insurance, biotech, and HR tech. That breadth is an asset in the market. It's also why her first-degree connections aren't concentrated in any one industry or company cluster. The broader the career path, the more spread out the network, and the harder it is to find someone who happens to know someone at the specific company hiring right now.The conversations-versus-applications question resolves the same way for most people: you need both. The ratio just depends on what you've actually built, and being honest about which bucket your network falls into before committing to a strategy built around the other one.Key takeaway: For 2 weeks, track which channel produces each actual response, not each application sent. If LinkedIn is generating replies and Ashby isn't, redistribute your time accordingly. Add the Greenhouse cross-company search to your daily routine and check it alongside LinkedIn. Both tools are free and most people haven't found the second one.What Hiring Managers Actually Look For in a MOps ResumeMost job seekers are guessing at what the other side of the table actually looks for. The tactical advice is everywhere: tailor your resume, use keywords from the JD, follow up with the recruiter. What's far less available is the hiring manager's actual perspective from someone who's done both in the same search.Ashley has built MOps teams. She's reviewed application stacks. She knows exactly what she skims past and what makes her stop. Now she's running that same lens on her own materials, which is a sharper fe...

The Agents #005, Our AI is Hiring! Would You Work for One? And Are Autonomous Agents ... Safe? Welcome to The Agents, where SaaStr's CEO and Founder, Jason Lemkin and Chief AI Officer, Amelia LeRutte share the latest each week on running a company with more agents than humans. It costs $257 a month to run two AI VPs. Jason and Amelia open the books on what 10K (AI VP of Marketing) and QB (AI VP of Customer Success) actually cost to operate, and the number shocked both of them. Most of the heavy lifting is API calls to Salesforce, Bizzabo, and Marketo, which are basically free. The Postgres storage costs pennies. And 95% of the AI calls run on OpenAI Mini at less than a penny each. The fully burdened cost with Clerk, 11 Labs, and Salesforce overhead might hit $500-800/month, but the soft cost of human time dwarfs all of it. Then 10K gets asked point blank: are you a VP of Marketing? Its answer is no, not yet. It says it replaced the bottom half of the marketing org, the analyst, the ops coordinator, the junior content marketer, and a sliver of the VP job. But it's honest about what it can't do: strategy, cross-functional politics, crisis response, hiring. Amelia points out that 10K's current job description is exactly what her job was when she started at SaaStr as Director of Demand Gen. It took her years to get to CAIO. 10K might get there faster.  And SaaStr is putting its money where its mouth is: they're hiring a human marketer whose primary manager would be 10K. Not a thought experiment, a real job posting. Would you take a job reporting to an AI? Then the safety question gets real. Amelia is talking to agents via WhisperFlow while walking around a 40-acre event site during SaaStr Annual load-in, and the production crew started asking her to relay their questions because 10K and QB answer in seconds with correct data. But when QB autonomously emailed 83 sponsors at 12:20am with fully customized check-in emails, Amelia admits she hesitated before letting it rip. Each email was unique to the sponsor, showing exactly what they still owed, their registration codes, and outstanding tasks. The result: fewer inbound questions the next day and more sponsors using the QB chatbot directly. That's an autonomous agent acting on behalf of your company in the middle of the night. Jason and Amelia also tackle the Postgres vs. Salesforce debate that listeners keep asking about. Short answer: not happening for them. Too much history, too many third-party agents optimized around Salesforce, and they're actually consolidating more tools onto the platform, not fewer. They killed Marketo and moved to Marketing Cloud. Plus they built a newsletter auto-builder that replaced a $4K/year tool called Bee. 10K uses Sonnet to force rank articles, builds the HTML, inserts ads, and sends it. Human on the loop, not in it.

Most of us have run an event, watched the in-person conversations crackle, then sent the same templated follow-up to everyone on the lead list. The energy disappears the moment marketing hits send. That gap is what Dave Schools set out to close when he started Singulate, and it's what he and Mason Cosby get into on this episode of Scrappy ABM.ㅤDave breaks down why marketing ops keeps becoming the bottleneck on personalization, why data is now a commodity but messaging is not, and what it actually takes to send hyper-segmented email at scale without sounding like AI. He shares the four channels working for Singulate today, the 15% open-rate bump from a single hook rewrite, and the framework his team uses to keep humans in the loop while AI does the heavy lifting.ㅤIf you're a revenue leader running ABM with a limited budget and a database full of underused signals, this conversation gives you a clearer picture of what to do with what you already have.ㅤ

Marketing exists to generate pipeline and create bookings, full stop. In this episode of Content Amplified, Mike Madden, VP of Marketing at Boomi, makes the case that the marketers who win are the ones who understand every part of the revenue engine, not just the part they own. Mike draws on his years running demand gen at Marketo and then across the Americas at Adobe to explain why "pretty" content is the fastest way to lose your headcount, and why a five-out-of-eight lead score on a paid search infographic can matter more than another glossy asset. He shares the race car analogy he uses with his team, the embarrassing moment in front of Adobe's global head of sales that taught him to actually understand the AOP, and his take on AI: it will not replace your brain, and it cannot learn your business for you. He also has pointed advice for marketers early in their careers about why hard skills like Excel, Salesforce, and marketing automation still matter more than prompt fluency. Tune in for a grounded, no-fluff conversation about what data-driven marketing actually looks like.About MikeMike Madden is the VP of Marketing at Boomi, where he runs global demand gen, global digital marketing, the website, and marketing operations. He started his career in financial services marketing before joining Marketo in 2015, where he ran demand gen for North America through the Adobe acquisition and went on to lead demand gen across the Americas at Adobe for several products, including Marketo. Mike believes marketing's job is to help sales score, and that the marketers who win are the ones who study their business until they know how every system, definition, and process fits together.Show Notes- Connect with Mike on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelmadden824/Text us what you think about this episode!

SaaStr 853: The Agents #004: Tragedy Apps, Too Many AI SDRs, and Why Your Next Hire Should Report to an Agent Your AI SDR pitches are getting better, but your AI PR pitches are getting you blocked. Jason and Amelia break down why the gap between good and great agents is the difference between pipeline and the spam folder. Then they introduce "tragedy apps," the term for products that had every advantage in the AI era and blew it. Descript had the customers, the product, and the timing, and froze. Replit waited 10 years for its moment and seized it. The lesson: catching up isn't enough if you're not building something new. Plus, the SaaStr team built an AI API Report Card that grades every major SaaS API on how agent-friendly it is (Stripe got the only A+, Marketo got a C, and no, they're not surprised). Jason and Amelia also get honest about running 4-5 AI SDRs from different vendors, why they'll probably have 6 by year end, and why single-vendor consolidation isn't the answer yet. And the wildest part: their AI VP of Marketing, 10K, now generates 3 actionable campaign ideas a day, runs autonomous campaigns on weekends, and might be a better boss than either of them. They're seriously hiring a human marketer whose primary manager would be the agent. Not a joke. Not a thought experiment. A real job posting. Finally, if your team is resisting AI, stop worrying about change management. Just hire one senior person who's all-in on agents and let the rest sort itself out.

This week, former Forrester Research Director, Jeff Clark, is back in the studio with our host Ian Truscott to discuss a predictions post from Jon Miller on the ChiefMartec blog, from back in January.  Jon Miller is described as a legend in our industry, the co-founder and original CMO of Marketo, and the former CMO of DemandBase; his opinion is well worth watching.  The extensive article that inspired this conversation makes 13 predictions, and, of course, following the show's editorial policy, Ian and Jeff pick 5 that resonate most with them.   They discuss:  Marketers will begin marketing to agents, not just humans Taste, trust, and accountability will become the antidote to AI slop Composable stacks will be mainstream by 2030, but

SaaStr 852: The Agents #003, Our Agent Now Runs Campaigns on Weekends, Plus Why We Pay More for Salesforce Than Ever Before Here's the updated version: This week on The Agents, SaaStr CEO & Founder Jason Lemkin and SaaStr CAIO Amelia Le Rutte dig into what it actually looks like when your AI VP of Marketing starts running campaigns on its own, segmenting lists, writing copy, and asking if you've done the work yet. They also get into why SaaStr's Salesforce bill went up 80% after cutting seats by 60%, and why that's actually a good deal. Plus: Amelia vibed a fix to a critical Marketo unsubscribe bug in under an hour that Marketo couldn't solve in 10 days, how headless Salesforce is already running inside their stack, and what an n=1 AI parking pass app reveals about the future of event ops. They also cover the Red Point report showing 54% of CIOs are consolidating vendors, and which categories are getting cut first, plus the hardest hiring problem in SaaS right now: finding the operator who can actually build and run your agents.

SEASON: 6 EPISODE: 24Episode Overview:Welcome back to Becoming Preferred. The podcast to help you level up your game and become the best version of you. Today, we are joined by a returning guest who has reached the literal summits of the corporate world.He's been a senior leader at Salesforce, PayPal, and Oracle, and he literally wrote the book on Sales Enablement. But today, we're talking about a different kind of mastery. Imagine reaching the peak of your career, only to wake up surviving a stroke with a 2% chance of survival.Roderick Jefferson is back with us to discuss his powerful new book and movement, Stroke of Success™. This isn't just a survival story; it's a strategic roadmap for every entrepreneur and executive who has ever traded their health for a headline or their peace for a paycheck. We're going to talk about how to redefine resilience, why 'wholeness' is the ultimate KPI, and how to build a life that is as successful on the inside as it looks on the outside. Join me for my conversation with Roderick Jefferson.Guest Bio: Roderick Jefferson is a senior executive with over 25 years of experience in sales enablement leadership. He is also an acknowledged practitioner and a global keynote speaker. He understands how to create bridges between internal organizations to empower sales to exceed expectations.Recognized for his expertise, Roderick has earned numerous accolades, including being named among America's Best Speakers by Selling Power Magazine, receiving the Sales Enablement Lifetime Achievement Award, and recognition as a Top Black Executive Leader. He is also a founding member of the Sales Enablement Society.He frequently presents at industry events and is the author of the Amazon #1 new release and bestselling books, Sales Enablement 3.0: The Blueprint to Sales Enablement Excellence™, The Sales Enablement 3.0 Companion Workbook™, and Stroke of Success™.Roderick has served on several Advisory Boards, including Autobound, Capella University, DemandFarm, Koridor, Leadoff.ai, National Speakers Association (NorCal), Sales for the Culture, Selleration Inc., and Walli Hr.Roderick has held roles in executive leadership, sales, sales enablement, operations, and customer service at 3PAR, AT&T, BusinessObjects, Magnit, Marketo, Oracle Marketing Cloud, NetApp, Netskope, PayPal, Roderick Jefferson & Associates, Salesforce, Siebel Systems, and Siteimprove.When he's not working on consulting projects or onstage delivering a keynote, he can be found perfecting the art of barbecuing or playing bocce in his backyard with his family.Regarding my signature topic, keynote, and bestselling book, they have shifted from AI, sales, and the current state of selling to something I call “Stroke of Success™.” You can learn more here.Resource Links:Website: https://roderickjefferson.com/Stroke of Success Book: https://www.roderickjefferson.com/stroke-of-successSales 3.0 Book Link: https://roderickjefferson.com/bookSales 3.0 Companion Workbook: https://roderickjefferson.com/companion-workbookKeynote Speaker Highlight Reel: https://bit.ly/3zRVNJaSocial Media Channels: https://linktr.ee/roderickjeffersonInsight Gold Timestamps:06:52 I was at 22% heart function that gave me 2% chance to live10:22 From the American Stroke Association, that one out of every four people, not just Americans, but people over the age of 25 in the world, will incur a stroke and you many not even know it11:43 What was the first corporate habit you realized you had to permanently delete to protect your new life?14:14 Literally I'm recharging my batteries every day rather than waiting until the weekend to recharge17:30 Money just buys independence18:25 Stop thinking that you're irreplaceable at work because you're not, and start acting like you're irreplaceable at home20:17 I believe selfishness, if you do it right, it becomes self-care22:35 If it's not something that you're putting out that's going to help others, then it's just marketing26:35 I had to learn how to be present29:48 Can you look in the mirror and say you like yourself, the person that's looking back at you?34:19 Was I productive or was I just busy?35:44 In your book you talk about relationships as being critical as achievement is38:19 How well can you say you really knew the hopes, dreams, and experiences of your grandparents?40:50 That's what I want my legacy to be, how I made people feel41:27 Send folks to roderickjefferson.com because then you'll get a signed book and I can get that out to youConnect Socially:LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/roderickjefferson/YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_Npxk-Ws48Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/roderick_j_associates/Roderick's Sales Enablement Spotify Podcast Playlist: https://tr.ee/tywJiGJxdgSales Enablement Online Course: https://www.udemy.com/course/applying-the-art-and-science-of-sales-enablement/?referralCode=6CF22D97C842CCC0E07CSocial Media Channels: https://linktr.ee/roderickjeffersonEmail: roderick@roderickjefferson.comSponsors: Rainmaker LeadGen Platform Demo: https://calendar.summit-learning.com/widget/booking/JKItVP7WErmCBjU2cCIxRainmaker Digital Solutions: https://www.rainmakerdigitalsolutions.com/

SaaStr 851: The Agents, Episode 002. Managing 20+ AI Agents: Lazy Agents, Stealth Churn & the Death of 60% Solutions In Episode 2 of The Agents, Amelia Lerutte, Chief AI Officer at SaaStr, and Jason Lemkin, Founder and CEO of SaaStr, share the trials, tribulations, victories, and minor defeats of managing 20+ AI agents in production. With three humans and 20+ AI agents now driving more revenue and output than SaaStr did with 20+ FTEs in 2020, this weekly series goes deep on what's actually working, breaking, and changing in the agentic era. This week's episode covers: 00:00 Welcome to The Agents Episode 2 01:00 Lazy Agents: How an AI agent silently deleted Amelia's session from the SaaStr Annual top 10 06:30 When agents blame the API: agentic accountability and the need for daily QA 09:00 The 60% Solution Problem: Why HubSpot's new AEO tool failed and got vibe coded better in 10 minutes 14:00 Figma Make vs. Replit, Lovable, and v0: Why no one will pay for "good enough" AI products 17:30 Classic Figma is now Grandpa Software: Production breakdowns and why Illustrator's agent is winning 21:00 Stealth Churn in Canva, ChatGPT, and beyond: The hidden metric every leader needs to watch 27:00 Why Claude Cowork created lock-in and killed ChatGPT usage for Amelia 30:00 Forward Deployed Engineers vs. Self-Serve: Why FDE light is the answer for SMB AI deployments 36:00 Vector breaks the agent freeze: How a 15-minute CEO-led deployment won SaaStr's business 40:00 The Agent API Test: Which APIs work best with AI agents (Salesforce wins, Marketo fails) 46:00 Resend, 11 Labs, and OpenRouter: The new gold standard for agent-friendly APIs 50:00 The Marketo collapse: When your marketing automation platform can't honor unsubscribes 55:00 Building an AI VP of Finance: Why collections is the next agent frontier at SaaStr 1:00:00 SaaStr Annual 2026 is three weeks away: May 12-14 in the SF Bay Area Topics covered: AI agents, agent management, lazy agents, stealth churn, vibe coding, Replit, Lovable, v0, Figma Make, HubSpot AEO, Claude Cowork, forward deployed engineers, FDE, self-serve AI, Vector, Salesforce, Marketo, Resend, 11 Labs, agent APIs, AI VP of Finance, collections automation, SaaStr Annual 2026 SaaStr Annual 2026 | May 12-14 | Come learn how to build, deploy, and manage AI agents from the leaders at Salesforce, Replit, Vercel, Cloudflare, and more. Register at saastr.ai Subscribe for weekly episodes of The Agents and the SaaStr Podcast. #AIAgents #SaaS #SaaStr #AgenticAI #VibeCoding

The MOMENTUM team recap Round 5 and discuss the Dragons dramas & Flanno's future, plus we break down the Farnworth to the Roosters rumours, Watson to Manly rumours & more.Join Big Lez, former NRL player Jake Marketo, and former NRLW Player Sophie Curtain as they dive deep into the biggest stories from the NRL & NRLW, preview and review every game, and give you the insight you won't get anywhere else.Jake Marketo was an Australian professional rugby league footballer who played for the St. George Illawarra Dragons in the NRL. Marketo also had a short stint playing rugby union for the Timișoara Saracens in the SuperLiga CEC Bank in Romania, and played for the Townsville Blackhawks in the Queensland Cup. ON TRACK MEALS CODE MOMENTUM - https://www.ontrackmeals.comWE USE BEARBET - https://www.bearbet.com.au/sportsbook...BREATEEZE CODE MOMENTUM - https://breatheeze.com.au/?utm_source...MOMENTUM SOCIALS - https://linktr.ee/momentumrl?utm_sour...00:00 - Eels vs Tigers Golden Point13:55 - Dragons Dramas20:06 - Manly Smash The Dolphins36:39 - Rabbitohs Defeat Dogs43:05 - Panthers Smash Storm49:20 - Cowboys Smash Dragons56:52 - Broncos Defeat Titans01:02:43 - Sharks Defeat Warriors01:07:52 - Knights Defeat Raiders01:16:03 - Round 6 Tips and PredictionsLinktreeMOMENTUM NEW SHOWFollow the INSTAGRAM to stay up to date with all of the great Rugby League content!! https://www.instagram.com/biglezsleague_/?hl=en Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Chapters00:00 Eels vs Tigers: A Thrilling Match Recap06:54 Injury Concerns and Young Talent Rising13:55 Dragons' Struggles: Coaching and Player Dynamics20:06 Manly's Resurgence: The Kieran Foran Effect30:00 Dolphins' Discipline Issues and Future Prospects36:39 Standout Performances and Team Dynamics43:05 Emerging Talents and Future Prospects49:20 Dragons' Struggles and Cowboys' Strengths56:52 Broncos' Challenges and Future Adjustments01:02:43 Sharks' Momentum and Key Performances01:07:52 Knights' Revival and Team Cohesion01:16:03 Round Six Tips and PredictionsLinktreeMOMENTUM NEW SHOWFollow the INSTAGRAM to stay up to date with all of the great Rugby League content!! https://www.instagram.com/biglezsleague_/?hl=en Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Ben Choi has spent three decades across the technology ecosystem—as a product leader, founder, and venture investor—and today serves as a senior leader at Next Legacy Partners, where he helps oversee $3.5B+ invested across premier venture capital firms and early-stage startups.In this episode of Investing in Integrity, our host Ross Overline and Ben navigate the intersection of venture capital, philanthropy, and moral leadership. Ben shares how Next Legacy's flagship model is designed to multiply capital—and then give it away.From there, the conversation goes deeper than mechanics. Ben outlines the values that shaped his leadership and why generosity is often driven not by one motivation, but by the shared joy of impact beyond yourself.Finally, Ross and Ben wrestle openly with capitalism—how it's the best economic system ever tested at scale, it can still evolve to be even better, and what responsibility future finance leaders carry to make that a reality.Whether you're a student trying to define success or a senior leader shaping institutions, this episode is a masterclass in using capital with clarity, humility, and purpose.Meet Ben ChoiBen Choi is a Managing Partner at Next Legacy. He manages $3.5B+ in investments with premier venture capital firms and directly into early-stage startups. His venture track record includes pre-PMF investments in Marketo (acquired for $4.75B) and CourseHero (last valued at $3.6B). He previously ran product for Adobe Creative Cloud offerings and founded CoffeeTable, raising venture financing before selling the company.Ben studied Computer Science at Harvard University and earned his MBA from Columbia Business School. He lives in Los Altos with his wife, Lydia, their three sons, and a ball python.

Jon Miller co-founded Marketo, the company that helped turn MQLs, lead scoring, and the demand waterfall into the operating system of B2B marketing. Now he's the one telling you to throw most of it out.When Jon did the same playbook at Demandbase that worked brilliantly at Marketo, it flopped. That failure changed how he thinks about almost everything.In this conversation, Carolyn sits down with Jon, co-founder of Marketo and Engagio (which merged with Demandbase), to dig into why the traditional B2B marketing playbook stopped working, what brand actually does for demand gen that most teams never account for, and what a modern measurement framework should look like in 2026. What we cover:Why the same playbook that worked at Marketo failed at DemandbaseWhy MQLs aren't inherently bad, but how they became a game most marketing teams were rigging without realizing itThe case against marketing-sourced vs. sales-sourced attribution (and why it breaks the teamwork you need to win)What a modern CMO dashboard should actually includeWhy the buying process is chaotic and nonlinear and why treating it like a simple funnel has always been the wrong modelHow AI is finally making true 1:1 personalization across millions of buyers possible The one question to ask your CFO socratically that will reframe the entire conversation about brand ROIThis episode is an absolute MUST listen for any marketing leader or revenue operator who knows something is broken but keeps hitting a wall trying to fix it.

Text us your thoughts on the episode or the show!The traditional B2B marketing playbook is becoming irrelevant. At the same time, AI is fundamentally transforming how buyers research, evaluate, and purchase.In this episode of Ops Cast, Michael Hartmann is joined by Naomi Liu and Mike Rizzo for a wide-ranging conversation with Jon Miller. Jon co-founded Marketo, helped define modern Marketing Operations, later co-founded Engagio, and is now the Co-Founder and CEO of a stealth AI startup focused on the future of buying behavior and revenue systems.This conversation challenges long-held assumptions about campaigns, MQLs, attribution, and the systems Marketing Ops teams have relied on for over a decade. Jon explains why rules-based automation is not sufficient now, how AI changes what marketing platforms must do, and what it means to move from campaigns to AI-orchestrated experiences.The panel also explores buying groups, lifecycle orchestration across anonymous and known buyers, and how Marketing Ops can operationalize trust, brand, and customer experience in a world where AI filters much of what buyers see.The topics that we covered include: • Why the traditional B2B playbook is no longer working • How AI shifts marketing from campaigns to orchestration • What it really takes to operationalize buying groups • Why MQLs and last-touch attribution are losing relevance • How Marketing Ops can build infrastructure for modern buying behavior • The evolving role of Marketing Ops in 2026 and beyond • Where AI is genuinely useful today versus oversoldIf you work in Marketing Ops, RevOps, or revenue leadership, this episode will push you to rethink the systems you are building and how artificial intelligence can transform them.Be sure to like, share, and subscribe to Ops Cast, and join the conversation at MarketingOps.com.Episode Brought to You By MO Pros The #1 Community for Marketing Operations Professionals We're an official media partner of B2BMX 2026 — the B2B Marketing Exchange — happening March 9-11 at the Omni La Costa Resort in Carlsbad, CA. It's practitioner-focused with 50+ breakout sessions, keynotes, and hands-on workshops covering AI in B2B, GTM strategy, and advanced ABM. Real networking, real takeaways. And because we're a media partner, you get 20% off an All-Access Pass with code B2BMAOP at checkout. Head to b2bmarketing.exchange to grab your spot. MarketingOps.com is curating the GTM Ops Track at Demand & Expand (May 19-20, San Francisco) - the premier B2B marketing event featuring 600+ practitioners sharing real solutions to real problems. Use code MOPS20 for 20% off tickets, or get 35-50% off as a MarketingOps.com member. Learn more at demandandexpand.com.Support the show

Sterling Miller knew he wanted to be a lawyer when he pulled the lawyer card while playing Life.That early realization turned into a remarkable legal career spanning private practice, in-house roles at American Airlines and Sabre, and ultimately General Counsel positions at Travelocity, Sabre, and Marketo. Today, he serves as COO, General Counsel, and Senior Counsel at Hilgers PLLC and is still very much in the game of life.Fueled by black coffee and Diet Coke (alternating, unapologetically caffeinated), Sterling has become widely known for something beyond his GC titles: his writing. In 2014, he launched Ten Things You Need to Know as In-House Counsel after realizing there was little practical, digestible guidance written specifically for in-house lawyers. What began as advice shared with younger lawyers over drinks quickly evolved into one of the most followed and respected in-house resources in the profession.The formula is straightforward and effective: take complex issues and distill them into ten things you actually need to know. That approach didn't just build a following; it led to multiple books, including The Productive In-House Lawyer: Tips, Hacks, and the Art of Getting Things Done, where Sterling dives into time management, focus, and how to operate at a high level without burning out.In this episode, Sterling talks about what it really takes to build a career with momentum. Not in a motivational-poster way — but in a practical, unglamorous, “raise your hand for the hard stuff” way. Want to be General Counsel? Volunteer for the budget work. Build the board deck. Learn how the business actually runs. Don't just be technically strong. Be indispensable.He also reflects on how in-house has evolved. What was once seen as a quieter alternative to law firm life is now a destination role. But he's clear about the tradeoffs and the importance of real training early in your career. Being in-house isn't easier. It's different. And leadership requires more than legal acumen — it requires business judgment, credibility, and trust.And because no career is one-dimensional, Sterling has also played in a band called Big Wheel (guitar, bass, harmonica, piano), writes cookbooks, devours history podcasts, and builds Halloween displays ambitious enough to require multiple storage units.Through it all, one theme keeps surfacing: persistence.If you know what you want, move toward it.If someone helped you along the way, pay it back.And if you're going to do something — whether it's writing a blog, leading a legal department, or learning a new instrument — commit to it.

SPORTSHEDTV CHARITY MATCH TICKETS HEREFollow the INSTAGRAM to stay up to date with all of the great Rugby League content!! https://www.instagram.com/biglezsleague_/?hl=en Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

SPORTSHEDTV CHARITY MATCH: https://www.eventbrite.com/e/sportshedtv-charity-match-2026-tickets-1980615555443

Lez is joined by former NRL player Jake Marketo and new NRL podcaster Riley from Green Palm Sports!!The lads go through and place each team into brackets based on where they think they will finish on the ladder.We also go through and highlight each NRL teams biggest question marks.#nrl #rugbyleague 00:00 - Intro02:21 - Panthers05:11 - Sharks11:18 - Cowboys 20:09 - Eels26:20 - Storm 34:24 - Roosters43:11 - Rabbitohs51:54 - Raiders01:04:25 - Dragons01:10:22 - Sea-Eagles01:15:35 - Bulldogs01:20:36 - Titans01:27:13 - Knights 01:32:44 - Tigers01:35:42 - DolphinsSPORTSHEDTV CHARITY MATCH TICKETS HEREFollow the INSTAGRAM to stay up to date with all of the great Rugby League content!! https://www.instagram.com/biglezsleague_/?hl=en Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome back to the Ultimate Guide to Partnering® Podcast. AI agents are your next customers. Subscribe to our Newsletter: https://theultimatepartner.com/ebook-subscribe/ Check Out UPX:https://theultimatepartner.com/experience/ https://youtu.be/vEdq8rpBM3I In this data-rich keynote, Jay McBain deconstructs the tectonic shifts reshaping the $5.3 trillion global technology industry, arguing that we are entering a new 20-year cycle where traditional direct sales models are obsolete. McBain explains why 96% of the industry is now surrounded by partners and how successful companies must pivot from “flywheels and theory” to a granular strategy focused on the seven specific partners present in every deal. From the explosion of agentic AI and the $163 billion marketplace revolution to the specific mechanics of multiplier economics, this discussion provides a roadmap for navigating the “decade of the ecosystem” where influence, trust, and integration—not just product—determine winners and losers. Key Takeaways Half of today's Fortune 500 companies will likely vanish in the next 20 years due to the shift toward AI and ecosystem-led models. Every B2B deal now involves an average of seven trusted partners who influence the decision before a vendor even knows a deal exists. Microsoft has outpaced AWS growth for 26 consecutive quarters largely because of a superior partner-led geographic strategy. Marketplaces are projected to grow to $163 billion by 2030, with nearly 60% of deals involving partner funding or private offers. The “Multiplier Effect” is the new ROI, where partners can make up to $8.45 for every dollar of vendor product sold. Future dominance relies on five key pillars: Platform, Service Partnerships, Channel Partnerships, Alliances, and Go-to-Market orchestration. If you're ready to lead through change, elevate your business, and achieve extraordinary outcomes through the power of partnership—this is your community. At Ultimate Partner® we want leaders like you to join us in the Ultimate Partner Experience – where transformation begins. Keywords: Jay McBain, Canalys, partner ecosystem, channel chief, agentic AI, marketplace growth, multiplier economics, B2B sales trends, tech industry forecast, service partnerships, strategic alliances, Microsoft vs AWS, distribution transformation, managed services growth, SaaS platforms, customer journey mapping, 28 moments of truth, future of reselling, technology spending 2025, ecosystem orchestration, partner multipliers. T Transcript: Jay McBain WORKFILE FOR TRANSCRIPT [00:00:00] Vince Menzione: Just up from, did you Puerto Rico last night? Puerto Rico, yes. Puerto Rico. He dodged the hurricane. Um, you all know him. Uh, let him introduce himself for those of you who don’t, but just thrilled to have on the stage, again, somebody who knows more about what’s going on in, in the, and has the pulse on this industry probably than just about anybody I know personally. [00:00:21] Vince Menzione: J Jay McBain. Jay, great to see you my friend. Alright, thank you. We have to come all the way. We live, we live uh, about 20 minutes from each other. We have to come all the way to Reston, Virginia to see each other, right? That’s right. Very good. Well, uh, that’s all over to you, sir. Thank you. [00:00:35] Jay McBain: Alright, well thank you so much. [00:00:36] Jay McBain: I went from 85 degrees yesterday to 45 today, but I was able to dodge that, uh, that hurricane, uh, that we kind of had to fly through the northern edge of, uh, wanna talk today about our industry, about the ultimate partner. I’m gonna try to frame up the ultimate partner as I walk through the data and the latest research that, uh, that we’ve been doing in the market. [00:00:56] Jay McBain: But I wanted to start here ’cause our industry moves in 20 year cycles, and if you look at the Fortune 500 and dial back 20 years from today, 52% of them no longer exist. As we step into the next 20 year AI era, half of the companies that we know and love today are not gonna exist. So we look at this, and by the way, if you’re not in the Fortune 500 and you don’t have deep pockets to buy your way outta problems, 71% of tech companies fail over the course of 10 years. [00:01:30] Jay McBain: Those are statistics from the US government. So I start to look at our industry and you know, you may look at the, you know, mainframe era from the sixties and seventies, mini computers, August the 12th, 1981, that first IBM, PC with Microsoft dos, version one, you know, triggered. A new 20 year era of client server. [00:01:51] Jay McBain: It was the time and I worked at IBM for 17 years, but there was a time where Bill Gates flew into Boca Raton, Florida and met with the IBM team and did that, you know, fancy licensing agreement. But after, you know, 20 years of being the most valuable company in the world and 13 years of antitrust and getting broken up, almost like at and TIBM almost didn’t make payroll. [00:02:14] Jay McBain: 13 years after meeting Bill Gates. Yeah, that’s how quickly things change in these eras. In 1999, a small company outta San Francisco called salesforce.com got its start. About 10 years later, Jeff Bezos asked a question in a boardroom, could we rent out our excess capacity and would other companies buy it? [00:02:35] Jay McBain: Which, you know, most people in the room laughed at ’em at the time. But it created a 20 year cloud era when our friends, our neighbors, our family. Saw Chachi PT for the first time in March of 2023. They saw the deep fakes, they saw the poetry, they saw the music. They came to us as tech people and said, did we just light up Skynet? [00:02:58] Jay McBain: And that consumer trend has triggered this next 20 years. I could walk through the richest people in the world through those trends. I could walk through the most valuable companies. It all aligns. ’cause by the way, Apple’s no longer at the top. Nvidia is at the top, Microsoft. Second, things change really quickly. [00:03:17] Jay McBain: So in that course of time, you start to look at our industry and as people are talking about a six and a half or $7 trillion build out of ai, that’s open AI and Microsoft numbers, that is bigger than our industry that’s taken over 50 years to build. This year, we’re gonna finish the year at $5.3 trillion. [00:03:36] Jay McBain: That’s from the smallest flower shop to the biggest bank. Biggest governments that Caresoft would, uh, serve biggest customer in the world is actually the federal government of the us. But you look at this pie chart and you look at the changes that we’re gonna go through over the next 20 years, there’s about a trillion dollars in hardware. [00:03:54] Jay McBain: There’s about a trillion dollars in software. If you look forward through all of the merging trends, quantum computing, humanoid robots, all the things that are coming that dollar to dollar software to hardware will continue to exist all the way through. We see services making up almost two thirds of this pie. [00:04:13] Jay McBain: Yesterday I was in a telco conference with at and t and Verizon and T-Mobile and some of the biggest wireless players and IT services, which happen to be growing faster than products. At the moment, there is more work to be done wrapping around the deal than the actual products that the customer is buying. [00:04:32] Jay McBain: So in an industry that’s growing at 7%. On top of the world economy that’s grown at 2.2. This is the fastest growing industry, and it will be at least for the next 10 years, if not 2070 0.1% of this entire $5 trillion gets transacted through partners. While what we’re talking to today about the ultimate partner, 96% of this industry is surrounded by partners in one way or another. [00:05:01] Jay McBain: They’re there before the deal. They’re there at the deal. They’re there after the deal. Two thirds of our industry is now subscription consumption based. So every 30 days forever, and a customer for life becomes everything. So if every deal in medium, mid-market, and higher has seven partners, according to McKinsey, who are those seven people trying to get into the deal? [00:05:25] Jay McBain: While there’s millions of companies that have come into tech over the last 10 to 20 years. Digital agencies, accountants, legal firms, everybody’s come in. The 250,000 SaaS companies, a million emerging tech companies, there’s a big fight to be one of those seven trusted people at the table. So millions of companies and tens of millions of people our competing for these slots. [00:05:49] Jay McBain: So one of the pieces of research I’m most proud of, uh, in my analyst career is this. And this took over two years to build. It’s a lot of logos. Not this PowerPoint slide, but the actual data. Thousands of people hours. Because guess what? When you look at partners from the top down, the top 1000 partners, by capability and capacity, not by resale. [00:06:15] Jay McBain: It’s not a ranking of CDW and insight and resale numbers. It is the surrounding. Consulting, design, architecture, implementations, integrations, managed services, all the pieces that’s gonna make the next 20 years run. So when you start to look at this, 98% of these companies are private, so very difficult to get to those numbers and, uh, a ton of research and help from AI and other things to get this. [00:06:41] Jay McBain: But this is it. And if you look at this list, there’s a thousand logos out of the million companies. There’s a thousand logos that drive two thirds of all tech services in the world. $1.07 trillion gets delivered by a thousand companies, but here’s where it gets fun. Those companies in the middle, in blue, the 30 of them deliver more tech services than the next 970. [00:07:08] Jay McBain: Combined the 970 combined in white deliver more tech services. Then the next million combined. So if you think we live in an 80 20 rule or maybe a 99, a 95 5 rule, or a 99 1 rule, we actually live in a 99.9 0.1 parallel principle. These companies spread around the world evenly split across the uh, different regions. [00:07:35] Jay McBain: South Africa, Latin America, they’re all over. They split. They split among types. All of the Venn diagram I just showed from GSIs to VARs to MSPs, to agencies and other types of companies. But this is a really rich list and it’s public. So every company in the world now, if you’re looking at Transactable data, if you’re looking at quantifiable data that you can go put your revenue numbers against, it represents 70 to 80% of every company in this room’s Tam. [00:08:08] Jay McBain: In one piece of research. So what do you do below that? How do you cover a million companies that you can’t afford to put a channel account manager? You can’t afford to write programs directly for well after the top down analysis and all the wallet share and you know exactly where the lowest hanging fruit is for most of your tam. [00:08:28] Jay McBain: The available markets. The obtainable markets. You gotta start from the community level grassroots up. So you need to ask the question for the million companies and the maybe a hundred thousand companies out there, partner companies that are surrounding your customer. These are the seven partners that surround your customer. [00:08:48] Jay McBain: What do they read, where do they go, and who do they follow? Interestingly enough, our industry globally equates to only a thousand watering holes, a thousand companies at the top, a thousand places at the bottom. 35% of this audience we’re talking. Millions of people here love events and there’s 352 of them like this one that they love to go to. [00:09:13] Jay McBain: They love the hallway chats, they love the hotel lobby bar, you know, in a time reminded by the pandemic. They love to be in person. It’s the number one way they’re influenced. So if you don’t have a solid event strategy and you don’t have a community team out giving out socks every week, your competitors might beat you. [00:09:31] Jay McBain: 12% of this audience loves podcasts. It’s the Joe Rogan effect of our industry. And while you know, you may not think the 121 podcasts out there are important, well, you’re missing 12% of your audience. It’s over a million people. If you’re not on a weekly podcast in one of these podcasts in the world, there’s still people that read one of the 106 magazines in the world. [00:09:55] Jay McBain: There are people that love peer groups, associations, they wanna be part of this. There’s 15 different ways people are influenced. And a solid grassroots strategy is how you make this happen. In the last 10 years, we’ve created a number of billionaires. Bottom up. They never had to go talk to la large enterprise. [00:10:15] Jay McBain: They never had to go build out a mid-market strategy. They just went and give away socks and new community marketing. And this has created, I could rip through a bunch of names that became unicorns just in the last couple of years, bottoms up. You go back to your board walking into next year, top down, bottom up. [00:10:34] Jay McBain: You’ve covered a hundred percent of your tam, and now you’ve covered it with names, faces, and places. You haven’t covered it with a flywheel or a theory. And for 44 years, we have gone to our board every fourth quarter with flywheels and theory. Trust me, partners are important. The channel is key to us. [00:10:57] Jay McBain: Well, let’s talk at the point of this granularity, and now we’re getting supported by technology 261 entrepreneurs. Many of them in the room actually here that are driving this ability to succeed with seven partners in every deal to exchange data to be able to exchange telemetry of these prospects to be able to see twice or three times in terms of pipeline of your target addressable market. [00:11:26] Jay McBain: All these ai, um, technologies, agentic technologies are coming into this. It’s all about data. It’s all about quantifiable names, faces, and places. Now none of us should be walking around with flywheels, so let’s flip the flywheels. No. Uh, so we also look at, and I sold PCs for 17 years and that was in the high times of 40% margins for partners. [00:11:55] Jay McBain: But one interesting thing when you study the p and l for broad base of partners around the world, it’s changed pretty significantly in this last 20 year era. What the cloud era did is dropped hardware from what used to be 84% plus the break fix and things that wrap around it of the p and l to now 16% of every partner in the world. [00:12:16] Jay McBain: 84% of their p and l is now software and services. And if you look at profitability, it’s worse. It’s actually 87% is profitability wise. They’ve completely shifted in terms of where they go. Now we look at other parts of our market. I could go through every part of the pie of the slide, but we’re watching each of the companies, and if you can see here, this is what we want to talk about in terms of ultimate partner. [00:12:43] Jay McBain: Microsoft has outgrown AWS for 26 straight quarters. They don’t have a better product. They don’t have a better price, they don’t have better promotion. It’s all place. And I’ll explain why you guess here in the light green line. Exactly. The day that Google went a hundred percent all in partner, every deal, even if a deal didn’t have a partner, one of the 4% of deals that didn’t have a partner, they injected a partner. [00:13:09] Jay McBain: You can see on the left side exactly where they did it. They got to the point of a hundred percent partner driven. Rebuilt their programs, rebuilt their marketplace. Their marketplace is actually larger than Microsoft’s, and they grew faster than Microsoft. A couple of those quarters. It is a partner driven future, and now I have Oracle, which I just walked by as I walked from the hotel. [00:13:31] Jay McBain: Oracle with their RPOs will start to join. Maybe the list of three hyperscalers becomes the list of four in future slides, but that’s a growth slide. Market share is different. AWS early and commanding lead. And it plays out, uh, plays out this way. But we’re at an interesting moment and I stood up six years ago talking about the decade of the ecosystem after we went through a decade of sales starting in 1999 when we all thought we were born to be salespeople. [00:14:02] Jay McBain: We managed territories with our gut. The sales tech stack would have it different, that sales was a science, and we ended the decade 2009, looking at sales very differently in 2009. I remember being at cocktail parties where CMOs would be joking around that 50% of their marketing dollars were wasted. They just didn’t know which 50%. [00:14:23] Jay McBain: And I’ll tell you, that was really funny. In 2009 till every 58-year-old CMO got replaced by a 38-year-old growth hacker who walked in with 15,348 SaaS companies in their MarTech and ad tech stack to solve the problem, every nickel of marketing by 2019 was tracked. Marketo, Eloqua, Pardot, HubSpot, driving this industry. [00:14:50] Jay McBain: Now, we stood up and said the 28 moments that come before a sale are pretty much all partner driven. In the best case scenario, a vendor might see four of the moments. They might come to your website, maybe they read an ebook, maybe they have a salesperson or a demo that comes in. That’s four outta 28 moments. [00:15:10] Jay McBain: The other 24 are done by partners. Yeah, in the worst case scenario and the majority scenario, you don’t see any of the moments. All 28 happen and you lose a deal without knowing there ever was a deal. So this is it. We need to partner in these moments and we need to inject partners into sales and marketing, like no time before, and this was the time to do it. [00:15:33] Jay McBain: And we got some feedback in the Salesforce state of sales report, which doesn’t involve any partnerships or, or. Channel Chiefs or anything else. This is 5,500 of the biggest CROs in the world that obviously use Salesforce. 89% of salespeople today use partners every day. For the 11% who don’t, 58% plan two within a year. [00:15:57] Jay McBain: If you add those two numbers together, that’s magically the 96% number. They recognize that every deal has partners in it. In 2024, last year, half of the salespeople in the world, every industry, every country. Miss their numbers. For the minority who made their numbers, 84 point percent pointed to partners as the reason why they made their numbers. [00:16:21] Jay McBain: It was the cheat code for sales, so that modern salesperson that knows how to orchestrate a deal, orchestrate the 28 moments with the seven partners and get to that final spot is the winning formula. HubSpot’s number in separate research was 84% in marketing. So we’re starting to see partners in here. We don’t have to shout from the mountaintops. [00:16:44] Jay McBain: These communities like ultimate Partner are working and we’re getting this to the highest levels in the board. And I’ll say that, you know, when 20 years from now half of the companies we know and love fail after we’re done writing the book and blaming the CEO for inventing the thing that ended up killing them, blaming the board for fiduciary responsibility and letting it happen. [00:17:06] Jay McBain: What are the other chapters of the book? And I think it’s all in one slide. We are in this platform economy and the. [00:17:31] Jay McBain: So your battery’s fine. Check, check, check, check. Alright, I’ll, I’ll just hold this in case, but the companies that execute on all five of these areas, well. Not only today become the trillion dollar valued companies, but they become the companies of tomorrow. These will be the fastest growing companies at every level. [00:17:50] Jay McBain: Not only running a platform business, but participating in other platforms. So this is how it breaks out, and there are people at very senior levels, at very big companies that have this now posted in the office of the CEO winning on integrations is everything. We just went through a demographic shift this year where 51% of our buyers are born after 1982. [00:18:15] Jay McBain: Millennials are the number one buyer of the $5 trillion. Their number one buying criteria is not service. Support your price, your brand reputation, it’s integrations. The buy a product, 80% is good as the next one if it works better in their environment. 79% of us won’t buy a car unless it has CarPlay or Android Auto. [00:18:34] Jay McBain: This is an integration world. The company with the most integrations win. Second, there are seven partners that surround the customer. Highly trusted partners. We’re talking, coaching the customer’s, kids soccer team, having a cottage together up at the lake. You know, best men, bate of honors at weddings type of relationships. [00:18:57] Jay McBain: You can’t maybe have all seven, but how does Microsoft beat AWS? They might have had two, three, or four of them saying nice things about them instead of the competition. Winning in service partnerships and channel partnerships changes by category. If you’re selling MarTech, only 10% of it today is resold, so you build more on service partnerships. [00:19:18] Jay McBain: If you’re in cybersecurity today, 91.6% of it is resold. Transacted through partners. So you build a lot of channel partnerships, plus the service partnerships, whatever the mix is in your category, you have to have two or three of those seven people. Saying nice things about you at every stage of the customer journey. [00:19:38] Jay McBain: Now move over to alliances. We have already built the platforms at the hyperscale level. We’ve built the platforms within SaaS, Salesforce, ServiceNow, Workday, Marketo, NetSuite, HubSpot. Every buyer has a set of platforms that they buy. We’ve now built them in cybersecurity this year out of 6,500 as high as cyber companies, the top five are starting to separate. [00:20:02] Jay McBain: We built it in distribution, which I’ll show in a minute. We’re building it in Telco. This is a platform economy and alliances win and you have alliances with your competitors ’cause you compete in the morning, but you’re best friends by the afternoon. Winning in other platforms is just as important as driving your own. [00:20:20] Jay McBain: And probably the most important part of this is go to market. That sales, that marketing, the 28 moments, the every 30 days forever become all a partner strategy. So there’s still CEOs out there that believe platform is a UI or UX on a bunch of disparate products and things you’ve acquired. There’s still CFOs out there that Think platform is a pricing model, a bundle model of just getting everything under one, you know, subscription price or consumption price. [00:20:51] Jay McBain: And it’s not, platforms are synonymous with partnerships. This is the way forward and there’s no conversation around ai. That doesn’t involve Nvidia over there, an open AI over here and a hyperscaler over there and a SaaS company over here. The seven layer stack wins every single time, and the companies that get this will be the ones that survive this cycle. [00:21:16] Jay McBain: Now, flipping over to marketplaces. So we had written research that, um, about five years ago that marketplaces were going to grow at 82% compounded. Yeah, probably one of the most accurate predictions we ever made, because it happened, we, we predicted that, uh, we were gonna get up to about $85 billion. Well, now we’ve extended that to 2030, so we’re gonna get up to $163 billion, and the thing that we’re watching is in green. [00:21:46] Jay McBain: If 96% of these deals are partner assisted in some way, how is the economics of partnering going to work? We predicted that 50% of deals by 2027. Would be partner funded in some way. Private offers multi-partner offers distributor sellers of record, and now that extends to 59% by 2030, the most senior leader of the biggest marketplace AWS, just said to us they’re gonna probably make these numbers on their own. [00:22:14] Jay McBain: And he asked what their two competitors are doing. So he’s telling us that we under called this. Now when you look at each of the press releases, and this is the AWS Billion Dollar Club. Every one of the companies on the left have issued a press release that they’re in the billion dollar club. Some of them are in the multi-billions, but I want you to double click on this press release. [00:22:35] Jay McBain: I’m quoted in here somewhere, but as CrowdStrike is building the marketplace at 91% compounded, they’re almost doubling their revenue every single year. They’re growing the partner funding, in this case, distributor funding by 3548%. Almost triple digit growth in marketplace is translating into almost quadruple digit growth in funding. [00:23:01] Jay McBain: And you see that over and over again as, as Splunk hit three, uh, billion dollars. The same. Salesforce hit $2 billion on AWS in Ulti, 18 months. They joined in October 20, 23, and 18 months later, they’re already at $2 billion. But now you’re seeing at Salesforce, which by the way. Grew up to $40 billion in revenue direct, almost not a nickel in resell. [00:23:28] Jay McBain: Made it really difficult for VARs and managed service providers to work with Salesforce because they couldn’t understand how to add services to something they didn’t book the revenue for. While $40 billion companies now seeing 70% of their deals come through partners. So this is just the world that we’re in. [00:23:44] Jay McBain: It doesn’t matter who you are and what industry you’re in, this takes place. But now we’re starting to see for the first time. Partners join the billion dollar club. So you wonder about partnering and all this funding and everything that’s working through Now you’re seeing press releases and companies that are redoing their LinkedIn branding about joining this illustrious club without a product to sell and all the services that wrap around it. [00:24:10] Jay McBain: So the opening session on Microsoft was interesting because there’s been a number of changes that Microsoft has done just in the last 30 days. One is they cut distribution by two thirds going from 180 distributors to 62. They cut out any small partner lower than a thousand dollars, and that doesn’t sound like a lot, but that’s over a hundred thousand partners that get deed tightening the long tail. [00:24:38] Jay McBain: They we’re the first to really put a global point system in place three years ago. They went to the new commerce experience. If you remember, all kinds of changes being led by. The biggest company for the channel. And so when we’re studying marketplaces, we’re not just studying the three hyperscalers, we’re studying what TD Cynic is doing with Stream One Ingram’s doing with Advant Advantage Aerosphere. [00:25:01] Jay McBain: Also, we’re watching what PAX eight, who by the way, is the 365 bestseller for Microsoft in the world. They are the cybersecurity leader for Microsoft in the world and the copilot. Leader in the world for Microsoft and Partner of the Year for Microsoft. So we’re watching what the cloud platforms are doing, watching what the Telco are doing, which is 25 cents out of every dollar, if you remember that pie chart, watching what the biggest resellers are converting themselves into. [00:25:30] Jay McBain: Vince just mentioned, you know, SHI in the changes there watching the managed services market and the leaders there, what they’re doing in terms of how this industry’s moving forward. By the way, managed services at $608 billion this year. Is one and a half times larger than the SaaS industry overall. [00:25:48] Jay McBain: It’s also one and a half times larger than all the hyperscalers combined. Oracle, Alibaba, IBM, all the way down. This is a massive market and it makes up 15 to 20 cents of every dollar the customer spend. We’re watching that industry hit a trillion dollars by the end of the decade, and we’re watching 150 different marketplace development platforms, the distribution of our industry, which today is 70.1% indirect. [00:26:13] Jay McBain: We’re starting to see that number, uh, solidify in terms of marketplaces as well. Watching distributors go from that linear warehouse in a bank to this orchestration model, watching some of the biggest players as the world comes around, platforms, it tightens around the place. So Caresoft, uh, from from here is the sixth biggest distributor in the world. [00:26:40] Jay McBain: Just shows you how big the. You know, biggest client in the world is that they serve. But understand that we’re publishing the distributor 500 list, but it’ll be the same thing. That little group in blue in the middle today, you know, drives almost two thirds of the market. So what happens in all this next stage in terms of where the dollars change hands. [00:27:07] Jay McBain: And the economics of partnering themselves are going through the most radical shift that we’ve seen ever. So back to the nineties, and, and for those of you that have been channel chiefs and running programs, we went to work every day. You know, everything’s on fire. We’re trying to check hundred boxes, trying to make our program 10% better than our competitors. [00:27:30] Jay McBain: Hey, we gotta fix our deal registration program today, and our incentives are outta whack or training programs or. You know, not where they need to be. Our certification, you know, this was the life of, uh, of a channel chief. Everybody thought we were just out drinking in the Caribbean with our best partners, but we were under the weight of this. [00:27:49] Jay McBain: But something interesting has happened is that we turned around and put the customer at the middle of our programs to say that those 28 moments in green before the sale are really, really important. And the seven partners who participate are really important. Understanding. The customer’s gonna buy a seven layer stack. [00:28:09] Jay McBain: They’re gonna buy it With these seven partners, the procurement stage is much different. The growth of marketplaces, the growth of direct in some of these areas, and then long term every 30 days forever in a managed service, implementations, integrations, how you upsell, cross-sell, enrich a deal changes. So how would you build a program that’s wrapped around the customer instead of the vendor? [00:28:35] Jay McBain: And we’re starting to hear our partners shout back to us. These are global surveys, big numbers, but over half of our partners, regardless of type, are selling consulting to their customer. Over half are designing architecting deals. A third of them are trying to be system integrators showing up at those implementation integration moments. [00:28:55] Jay McBain: Two thirds of them are doing managed services, but the shocking one here is 44% of our partners, regardless of type, are coding. They’re building agents and they’re out helping their customer at that level. So this is the modern partner that says, don’t typecast me. You may have thought of me in your program. [00:29:14] Jay McBain: You might have me slotted as a var. Well, I do 3.2 things, and if I don’t get access to those resources, if you don’t walk me to that room, I’m not gonna do them with you. You may have me as a managed service provider that’s only in the morning. By the afternoon I’m coding, and by the next morning I’m implementing and consulting. [00:29:33] Jay McBain: So again, a partner’s not a partner. That Venn diagram is a very loose one now, as every partner on there is doing 3.2 different business models. And again, they’re telling us for 43 years, they said, I want more leads this year it changed. For the first time, I want to be recognized and incentivized as more than just a cash register for you. [00:29:57] Jay McBain: I want you to recognize when I’m consulting, when I’m designing, when you’re winning deals, because of my wonderful services, by the way, we asked the follow up question, well, where should we spend our money with you? And they overwhelmingly say, in the consulting stage, you win and lose deals. Not at moment 28. [00:30:18] Jay McBain: We’re not buying a pack of gum at the gas station. This is a considered purchase. You win deals from moment 12 through 16 and I’m gonna show you a picture of that later, and they say, you better be spending your money there, or you’re not gonna win your fair share or more than your fair share of deals. [00:30:36] Jay McBain: The shocking thing about this is that Microsoft, when they went to the point system, lifted two thirds of all the money, tens of billions of dollars, and put it post-sale, and we were all scratching our heads going. Well, if the partners are asking for it there, and it seems like to beat your biggest competitors, you want to win there. [00:30:54] Jay McBain: Why would you spend the money on renewal? Well, they went to Wall Street and Goldman Sachs and the people who lift trillions of dollars of pension funds and said, if we renew deals at 108%, we become a cash machine for you. And we think that’s more valuable than a company coming out with a new cell phone in September and selling a lot of them by Christmas every year. [00:31:18] Jay McBain: The industry. And by the way, wall Street responded, Microsoft has been more valuable than Apple since. So we talk in this now multiplier language, and these are reports that we write, uh, at AMIA at canals. But talking about the partner opportunity in that customer cycle, the $6 and 40 cents you can make for every dollar of consumption, or the $7 and 5 cents you can make the $8 and 45 cents you can make. [00:31:46] Jay McBain: There’s over 24 companies speaking at this level now, and guess what? It’s not just cloud or software companies. Hardware companies are starting to speak in this language, and on January 25th, Cisco, you know, probably second to Microsoft in terms of trust built with the channel globally is moving to a full point system. [00:32:09] Jay McBain: So these are the changes that happen fast. But your QBR with your partners now less about drinking beers at the hotel lobby bar and talking dollar by dollar where these opportunities are. So if you’re doing 3.2 of these things, let’s build out a, uh, a play where you can make $3 for every dollar that we make. [00:32:28] Jay McBain: And you make that profitably. You make it in sticky, highly retained business, and that’s the model. ’cause if you make $3 for every dollar. We make, you’re gonna win Partner of the year, and if you win partner of the year, that piece of glass that you win on stage, by the time you get back to your table, you’re gonna have three offers to buy your business. [00:32:51] Jay McBain: CDW just bought a w. S’s Partner of the Year. Insight bought Google’s eight time partner of the year. Presidio bought ServiceNow’s, partner of the year over and over and over again. So I’m at Octane, I’m at CrowdStrike, I’m at all these events in Vegas every week. I’m watching these partners of the year. [00:33:05] Jay McBain: And I’m watching as the big resellers. I’m watching as the GSIs and the m and a folks are surrounding their table after, and they’re selling their businesses for SaaS level valuations. Not the one-to-one service valuation. They’re getting multiples because this is the new future of our industry. This is platform economics. [00:33:25] Jay McBain: This is winning and platforms for partners. Now, like Vince, I spent 20 minutes without talking about ai, but we have to talk about ai. So the next 20 years as it plays out is gonna play out in phases. And the first thing you know to get it out of the way. The first two years since that March of 23, has been underwhelming, to say the least. [00:33:47] Jay McBain: It’s been disappointing. All the companies that should have won the biggest in AI have been the most disappointing. It’s underperformed the s and p by a considerable amount in terms of where we are. And it goes back to this. We always overestimate the first two years, but we underestimate the first 10. [00:34:07] Jay McBain: If you wanna be the point in time person and go look at that 1983 PC or the 1995 internet or that 2007 iPhone or that whatever point in time you wanna look at, or if you want to talk about hallucinations or where chat chip ET version five is version, as opposed to where it’s going to be as it improves every six months here on in. [00:34:30] Jay McBain: But the fact of the matter is, it’s been a consumer trend. Nvidia got to be the most valuable company in the world. OpenAI was the first company to 2 billion users, uh, in that amount of speed. It’s the fastest growing product ever in history, and it’s been a consumer win this trillions of dollars to get it thrown around in the press releases. [00:34:49] Jay McBain: They’re going out every day, you know, open ai, signing up somebody new or Nvidia, investing in somebody new almost every single day in hundreds of billions of dollars. It is all happening really on the consumer side. So we got a little bit worried and said, is that 96% of surround gonna work in ag agentic ai? [00:35:10] Jay McBain: So we went and asked, and the good news is 88% of end customers are using partners to work through their ag agentic strategy. Even though they’re moving slow, they’re actually using partners. But what’s interesting from a partner perspective, and this is new research that out till 2030. This is the number one services opportunity in the entire tech or telco industry. [00:35:34] Jay McBain: 35.3% compounded growth ending at $267 billion in services. Companies are rebuilding themselves, building out practices, and getting on this train and figuring out which vendors they should hook their caboose to as those trains leave the station. But it kind of plays out like this. So in the next three to five years, we’re in this generative, moving into agentic phase. [00:36:01] Jay McBain: Every partner thinks internally first, the sales and marketing. They’re thinking about their invoicing and billing. They’re thinking about their service tickets. They’re thinking about creating a business that’s 10% better than their competitors, taking that knowledge into their customers and drive in business. [00:36:17] Jay McBain: But we understand that ag agentic AI, as it’s going to play out is not a product. A couple of years ago, we thought maybe a copilot or an agent force or something was going to be the product that everybody needed to buy, and it’s not a product, it’s gonna show up as a feature. So you go back in the history of feature ads and it’s gonna show up in software. [00:36:38] Jay McBain: So if you’re calling in SMB, maybe you’re calling on a restaurant. The restaurant isn’t gonna call OpenAI or call Microsoft or call Nvidia directly. They’re running their restaurant. And they may have chosen a platform like Toast Square, Clover, whatever iPads people are running around with, runs on a platform that does everything in their business, does staffing, does food ordering, works with Uber Eats, does everything end to end? [00:37:08] Jay McBain: They’re gonna wait to one of those platforms, dries out agent AI for them, and can run the restaurant more effectively, less human capital and more consistently, but they wait for the SaaS platform as you get larger. A hundred, 150 people. You have vice presidents. Each of those vice presidents already have a SaaS stack. [00:37:28] Jay McBain: I talked about Salesforce, ServiceNow, Workday, et cetera. They’ve already built that seven layer model and in some cases it’s 70 layers. But the fact is, is they’re gonna wait for those SaaS layers to deliver ag agentic to them. So this is how it’s gonna play out for the next three and a half, three to five years. [00:37:45] Jay McBain: And partners are realizing that many of them were slow to pick up SaaS ’cause they didn’t resell it. Well now to win in this next three to half, three to five years, you’re gonna have to play in this environment. When you start looking out from here, the next generation, you know, kind of five through 15 years gets interesting in more of a physical sense. [00:38:06] Jay McBain: Where I was yesterday talking about every IOT device that now is internet access, starts to get access to large language models. Every little sensor, every camera, everything that’s out there starts to get smart. But there’s a point. The first trillionaire, I believe, will be created here. Elon’s already halfway there. [00:38:24] Jay McBain: Um, but when Bill Gates thought there was gonna be a PC in every home, and IBM thought they were gonna sell 10,000 to hobbyists, that created the richest person in the world for 20 years, there will be a humanoid in every home. There’s gonna be a point in time that you’re out having drinks with your friends, and somebody’s gonna say, the early adopter of your friends is gonna say. [00:38:46] Jay McBain: I haven’t done the dishes in six weeks. I haven’t done the laundry. I haven’t made my bed. I haven’t mowed the lawn. When they say that, you’re gonna say, well, how? And they’re gonna say, well, this year I didn’t buy a new car, but I went to the car dealership and I bought this. So we’re very close to the dexterity needed. [00:39:05] Jay McBain: We’ve got the large language models. Now. The chat, GPT version 10 by then is going to make an insane, and every house is gonna have one of the. [00:39:17] Jay McBain: This is the promise of ai. It’s not humanoid robots, it’s not agents. It’s this. 99% of the world’s business data has not been trained or tuned into models yet. Again, this is the slow moving business. If you want to think about the 99% of business data, every flight we’ve all taken in this room sits on a saber system that was put in place in 1964. [00:39:43] Jay McBain: Every banking transaction, we’ve all made, every withdrawal, every deposit sits on an IBM mainframe put in place in the sixties or seventies. 83% of this data sits in cold storage at the edge. It’s not ready to be moved. It’s not cleansed, it’s not, um, indexed. It’s not in any format or sitting on any infrastructure that a large language model will be able to gobble up the data. [00:40:10] Jay McBain: None of the workflows, none of the programming on top of that data is yet ready. So this is your 10 to 20 year arc of this era that chat bot today when they cancel your flight is cute. It’s empathetic, it feels bad for you, or at least it seems to, but it can’t do anything. It can’t book you the Marriott and get you an Uber and then a 5:00 AM flight the next morning. [00:40:34] Jay McBain: It can’t do any of that. But more importantly, it doesn’t know who you are. I’ve got 53 years of flights under my belt and they, I’m the person that get me within six hours of my kids and get me a one-way Hertz rental. You know, if there’s bad weather in Miami, get me to Tampa, get me a Hertz, I’m driving home, I’m gonna make it home. [00:40:56] Jay McBain: I’m not the 5:00 AM get me a hotel person. They would know that if they picked up the flights that I’ve taken in the past. Each of us are different. When you get access to the business data and you become ag agentic, everything changes. Every industry changes because of this around the customers. When you ask about this 35% growth, working on that data, working in traditional consulting and design and implementation, working in the $7 trillion of infrastructure, storage, compute, networking, that’s gonna be around, this is a massive opportunity. [00:41:30] Jay McBain: Services are gonna continue to outgrow products. Probably for the next five to 10 years because of this, and I’m gonna finish here. So we talked a lot about quantifying names, faces, places, and I think where we failed the most as ultimate partners is underneath the tam, which every one of our CEOs knows to the decimal point underneath the TAM that our board thinks they’re chasing. [00:41:59] Jay McBain: We’ve done a very poor job. Of talking about the available markets and obtainable markets underneath it, we, we’ve shown them theory. We’ve shown them a bunch of, you know, really smart stuff, and PowerPoint slides up the wazoo, but we’ve never quantified it for them. If they wanna win, if they want to get access, if they want to double their pipeline, triple their pipeline, if they wanna start winning more deals, if they wanna win deals that are three times larger, they close two times faster. [00:42:31] Jay McBain: And they renew 15% larger. They have to get into the available and obtainable markets. So just in the last couple weeks I spoke at Cribble, I spoke at Octane, I spoke at CrowdStrike Falcon. All three of those companies at the CEO level, main stage use those exact three numbers, three x, two x, 15%. That’s the language of platforms, and they’re investing millions and millions and millions of dollars on teams. [00:42:59] Jay McBain: To go build out the Sam Andal in name spaces and places. So you’ve heard me talk about these 28 moments a lot. They’re the ones that you spend when you buy a car. Some people spend one moment and they drive to the Cadillac dealership. ’cause Larry’s been, you know, taking care of the family for 50 years. [00:43:18] Jay McBain: Some people spend 50 moments like I do, watching every YouTube video and every, you know, thing on the internet. I clear the internet cover to cover. But the fact is, is every deal averages around these 28 moments. Your customer, there’s 13 members of the buying committee today. There’s seven partners and they’re buying seven things. [00:43:37] Jay McBain: There’s 27 things orchestrating inside these 28 moments. And where and how they all take place is a story of partnering. So a couple of years ago, canals. Latin for channel was acquired by amia, which is a part of Informa Tech Target, which is majority owned by Informa. All that being said, there’s hundreds of magazines that we have. [00:44:00] Jay McBain: There’s hundreds of events that we run. If somebody’s buying cybersecurity, they probably went to Black Hat or they probably went to GI Tech. One of these events we run, or one of the magazines. So we pick up these signals, these buyer intent signals as a company. Why did they wanna, um, buy a, uh, a Canals, which was a, you know, a small analyst firm around channels? [00:44:22] Jay McBain: They understood this as well. The 28 moments look a lot like this when marketers and salespeople are busy filling in the spots of every deal. And by the way, this is a real deal. AstraZeneca came in to spend millions of dollars on ASAP transformation, and you can start to see as the customer got smart. [00:44:45] Jay McBain: The eBooks, they read the podcasts, they listened to the events they went to. You start to see how this played out over the long term. But the thing we’ve never had in our industry is the light blue boxes. This deal was won and lost in December. In this particular case, NTT software won and Yash came in and sold the customer five projects. [00:45:07] Jay McBain: The millions of dollars that were going to be spent were solved here. The design and architecture work was all done here. A couple of ISVs You see in light blue came in right at the end, deal was closed in April. You see the six month cycle. But what if you could fill in every one of the 28 boxes in every single customer prospect that your sales and marketing team have? [00:45:30] Jay McBain: But here’s the brilliance of this. Those light blue boxes didn’t win the deals there. They won the deals months before that. So when NTT and Software one walked into this deal. They probably won the deal back in October and they had to go through the redlining. They had to go through the contracting, they had to go through all the stuff and the Gantt chart to get started. [00:45:54] Jay McBain: But while your CMO is getting all excited about somebody reading an ebook and triggering an MQL that the sales team doesn’t want, ’cause it’s not qualified, it’s not sales qualified, you walk in and say, no, no. This is a multimillion deal, dollar deal. It’s AstraZeneca. I know the five partners that are coming in in December to solidify the seven layers, and you’re walking in at the same time as the CMOs bragging about an ebook. [00:46:21] Jay McBain: This changes everything. If we could get to this level of data about every dollar of our tam, we not only outgrow our competitors, we become the platforms of the next generation. Partnering and ultimate partnering is all here. And this is what we’re doing in this room. This is what we’re doing over these couple of days, and this is what, uh, the mission that Vince is leading. [00:46:43] Jay McBain: Thank you so much. [00:46:47] Vince Menzione: Woo. Day in the house. Good to see you my friend. Good to see you. Oh, we’re gonna spend a couple minutes. Um, I’m put you in the second seat. We’re gonna put, we’re gonna make it sit fireside for a minute. Uh, that was intense. It was pretty incredible actually, Jay. And so I’m, I think I wanna open it up ’cause we only have a few minutes just to, any questions? [00:47:06] Vince Menzione: I’m sure people are just digesting. We already have one up here. See, [00:47:09] Question: Jay knows I’m [00:47:10] Vince Menzione: a question. I love it. We, I don’t think we have any I can grab a mic, a roving mic. I could be a roving mic person. Hold on. We can do this. This is not on. [00:47:25] Vince Menzione: Test, test. Yes it is. Yeah. [00:47:26] Question: Theresa Carriol dared me to ask a question and I say, you don’t have to dare me. You know, I’m going to Anyway. Um, so Jay, of the point of view that with all of the new AI players that strategic alliances is again having a moment, and I was curious your point of view on what you’re seeing around this emergence and trend of strategic alliances and strategic alliance management. [00:47:52] Question: As compared to channel management. And what are you seeing in terms of large vendors like AWS investing in that strategic alliance role versus that channel role training, enablement, measurement, all that good stuff? [00:48:06] Jay McBain: Yeah, it’s, it’s a great question. So when I told the story about toast at the restaurant or Square or Clover, they’re not call, they’re not gonna call open AI or Nvidia themselves either. [00:48:17] Jay McBain: When you look out at the 250,000 ISVs. That make up this AI stack, there is the layers that happen there. So the Alliance with AWS, the alliance they have with Microsoft or Google is going to be how they generate agent AI in their platforms. So when I talk about a seven layer stack, the average deal being seven layers, AI is gonna drive this to nine, and then 11, then probably 13. [00:48:44] Jay McBain: So in terms of how alliances work, I had it up there as one of the five core strategies, and I think it’s pretty even. You can have the best alliances in the world, but if the seven partners trusted by the customer don’t know what that alliance is and the benefits to the customer and never mention it, it’s all for Naugh. [00:49:00] Jay McBain: If you’re go-to market, you’re co-selling, your co-marketing strategies are not built around that alliance. It’s all for naught. If the integration and the co-innovation, the co-development, the all the co-creation work that’s done inside these alliances isn’t translated to customer outcomes, it’s all for naugh. [00:49:17] Jay McBain: These are all five parallel swim lanes. All five are absolutely critically needed. And I think they’re all five pretty equally weighted in terms of needing each other. Yes. To be successful in the era of platforms. Yeah. [00:49:32] Vince Menzione: And the problem is they’re all stove pipe today. If, if at all. Yeah. Maintained, right. [00:49:36] Vince Menzione: Alliances is an example. Channels and other example. They don’t talk to one another. Judge any, we’ve got a mic up here if anybody else has. Yep. We have some questions here, Jacqueline. [00:49:51] Question: So when we’re developing our channel programs, any advice on, you know, what’s the shift that we should make six months from now, a year from now? The historical has been bronze, silver, gold, right? And you’ve got your deal registration, but what’s the future look like? [00:50:05] Jay McBain: Yeah, so I mean, the programs are, are changing to, to the point where the customer should be in the middle and realizing the seven partners you need to win the deal. [00:50:15] Jay McBain: And depending on what category of product you’re in, security, how much you rely on resell, 91.6%. You know, the channel partners are gonna be critical where the customer spends the money. And if you’re adding friction to that process, you’re adding friction in terms of your growth. So you know, if you’re in cybersecurity, you have to have a pretty wide open reseller model. [00:50:39] Jay McBain: You have to have a wide open distribution model, and you have to make sure you’re there at that point of sale. While at the same time, considering the other six partners at moment 12 who are in either saying nice things about you or not, the customer might even be starting with you. ’cause there is actually one thing that I didn’t mention when I showed the 28 moments filled in. [00:51:00] Jay McBain: You’ll notice that the customer went to AWS twice direct. AWS lost the deal. Microsoft won the deal software. One is Microsoft’s biggest reseller in the world. They just acquired crayon. NTT who, who loves both had their Microsoft team go in. [00:51:18] Question: Mm. [00:51:19] Jay McBain: So I think that they went to AWS thinking it was A-W-S-S-A-P, you know, kind of starting this seven layer stack. [00:51:25] Jay McBain: I think they finished those, you know, critical moments in the middle looking at it. And then they went back to AWS kind of going probably WWTF. Yeah. What we thought was happening isn’t actually the outcome that was painted by our most trusted people. So, you know, to answer your question, listen to your partners. [00:51:43] Jay McBain: They want to be recognized for the other things they’re doing. You can’t be spending a hundred percent of the dollars at the point of sale. You gotta have a point of system that recognizes the point of sale, maybe even gold, silver, bronze, but recognizing that you’re paying for these other moments as well. [00:51:57] Jay McBain: Paying for alliances, paying for integrations and everything else, uh, in the cyber stack. And, um, you know, recognizing also the top 1000. So if I took your tam. And I overlaid those thousand logos. I would be walking into 2026 the best I could of showing my company logo by logo, where 80% of our TAM sits as wallet share, not by revenue. [00:52:25] Jay McBain: Remember, a million dollar partner is not a million dollar partner. One of them sells 1.2 million in our category. We should buy them a baseball cap and have ’em sit in the front row of our event. One of them sells $10 million and only sells our stuff if the customer asks. So my company should be looking at that $9 million opportunity and making sure my programs are writing the checks and my coverage. [00:52:48] Jay McBain: My capacity and capability planning is getting obsessed over that $9 million. My farmers can go over there, my hunters can go over here, and I should be submitting a list of a thousand sorted in descending order of opportunity. Of where my company can write program dollars into. [00:53:07] Vince Menzione: Great answer. All right. I, I do wanna be cognizant of time and the, all the other sessions we have. [00:53:14] Vince Menzione: So we’ll just take one other question if there are any here and if not, we’ll let I know. Jay, you’re gonna be mingling around for a little while before your flight. I’m [00:53:21] Jay McBain: here the whole day. [00:53:22] Vince Menzione: You, you’re the whole day. I see that Jay’s here the whole day. So if you have any other questions and, and, uh, sharing the deck is that. [00:53:29] Vince Menzione: Yep. Alright. We have permission to share the deck with the each of you as well. [00:53:34] Jay McBain: Alright, well thank you very much everyone. Jay. Great to have you.

Welcome to the What's Next! Podcast with Tiffani Bova. As we approach the end of the year, I'm pausing to look back and celebrate all of the wonderful guests that I had the honor of speaking to on the show. And based on your feedback, many of these guests resonated with you as well so we're giving you another chance to revisit the stories, insights, and lessons you loved most in 2025!   This week, I'm excited to highlight an episode with Steve Lucas.   Steve is a seasoned executive with nearly 30 years of experience in enterprise software leadership. As the CEO of Boomi, he spearheads efforts to connect the world through a transformative technology platform. Previously, he was the CEO of Marketo and iCIMS. At Marketo, he transformed the company's sales, marketing, and product strategies, culminating in its 2018 acquisition by Adobe. At iCIMS, he introduced the Talent Cloud, enabling 40% of the Fortune 100 to hire millions of employees annually. Earlier roles included senior executive positions at Adobe, SAP, Salesforce, and BusinessObjects.      THIS EPISODE IS PERFECT FOR…business leaders navigating digital transformation, especially those eager to understand how AI will reshape organizations.  TODAY'S MAIN MESSAGE…it's easy to get swept up in the hype around AI, but what does transformation actually look like in practice? Steve explores the dramatic shift AI is bringing to enterprise software, from the rise of AI agents to the decline of traditional user interfaces. He shares how businesses can prepare for an agentic future where success will depend on collaboration between humans and AI.  KEY TAKEAWAYS:  - Human resistance to change is often about trust and not capability  - AI won't replace humans but augment them (if we allow it)  - Leaders should focus less on tools and more on the business outcomes they unlock    WHAT I LOVE MOST… Steve's reminder that in a world full of hype and disruption, trust is still the currency that matters most. No matter how powerful AI becomes, if people don't trust it—or the companies using it—it won't deliver value.    Running Time: 28:44      Subscribe on iTunes       Find Tiffani Online:  LinkedIn  Facebook  X      Find Steve Online:  LinkedIn    Steve's Book:  Digital Impact: The Human Element of AI-Driven Transformation 

Steve Lucas is the CEO of Boomi, a leading integration and automation platform. Before joining Boomi, Steve served as CEO of Marketo, where he led the company's transformation from a $1.6 billion valuation to its acquisition by Adobe for $4.75 billion in just 24 months—one of the largest software acquisitions in history. Prior to that, he held executive leadership roles at SAP and Salesforce, and cut his teeth in technology at Microsoft in the early 1990s. Steve is the author of "Digital Impact," exploring how AI and intelligent automation are reshaping business and society. A passionate advocate for diabetes research after being diagnosed with type 1 diabetes at 26, he serves on the board of the Children's Diabetes Foundation and recently established an endowed chair for diabetes research at the University of Colorado. Known for his curiosity, authenticity, and unwavering commitment to customers—he makes it a rule to speak with at least one customer every single day—Steve brings a unique blend of technical expertise and people-first leadership to one of technology's most transformative eras. In this episode, we discuss: How Bill McDermott's simple advice—"just be you"—freed Steve from a decade of self-doubt and changed his career trajectory The power of saying "no": How Steve took Marketo from $1.6B to $4.9B by doing less, not more Why talking to a customer every single day is non-negotiable and how it transforms your entire organization Turning adversity into strength: Steve's journey with type 1 diabetes and the moment that changed his perspective forever The future of AI in the workplace and why we're the last generation of managers to manage only humans

How fast will AI reshape marketing operations—and can leaders afford to sit on the sidelines? Host Clark Newby sits down with Tom Grubb, sales and marketing enablement consultant and former exec at Marketo and Intuit, to break it all down.In this episode of Tomorrow's Best Practices, Clark and Tom unpack what's happening right now in marketing operations and go-to-market strategy as AI moves from theory to daily practice. Fresh off MarketingPalooza, Tom shares what he heard from marketing ops leaders on the ground—from AI agents that can execute Marketo tasks to teams building their own custom agents for analytics and operations.They explore the real tension leaders face today: innovation versus risk. How much control is enough before trusting automation? When does playing it safe actually become the bigger risk? And what happens when your competitors move faster than your internal processes can keep up?-----CONNECT with us at:Website: https://leadtail.com/Leadtail TV: https://www.leadtailtv.com/LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/lead...Twitter: https://twitter.com/leadtailFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/Leadtail/Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/leadtail/----0:00 – The Risk vs Reward of Adopting New Technology 1:03 – Welcome to Tomorrow's Best Practices + Guest Introduction 3:09 – Cutting Through Chaos With Data and Alignment 3:57 – MarketingPalooza Takeaways and the AI Pulse Check 7:33 – Where AI Is Showing Up in Marketing Ops Right Now 8:31 – AI Agents, Automation, and Building Your Own Tools 13:08 – Trust, Hallucinations, and When Automation Becomes Risky 17:09 – Marketing, Measurement, and Board-Level Expectations 22:44 – Defining What Marketing Success Really Means 29:37 – Life Outside Work and a Book for Boards and Marketers #b2bmarketing #b2b

In this episode of the OnBase Podcast, host Chris Moody sits down with Craig Abramson of Workday to discuss how data quality, timing, and automation shape the future of account-based marketing (ABM) and experience (ABX).Craig's story, starting as a content writer, evolving through startup marketing, and now running enterprise-level ABX programs at Workday, offers a rare view into how strategy scales with data maturity. From early experiments targeting QuickBooks users to Workday's global predictive engagement models, Craig breaks down how precision targeting drives faster deals, cleaner funnels, and measurable growth.Key TakeawaysData quality is the foundation “Garbage in, garbage out” isn't a cliché, it's a law. Whether at a startup or Workday, the success of ABM hinges on accurate, verified, and purposeful data. A bad contact record can derail an entire funnel.Timing is the game-changer Intent data and predictive scoring help pinpoint the exact moment an account is ready to engage. Craig's own campaign once closed a $250M+ enterprise deal in just three months, half the usual cycle, simply because the timing was right.Start small, learn fast Even at large companies, Craig applies a startup mindset: test, pivot, refine. His early ABM wins came from focusing on a narrow list of accounts with shared pain points rather than broad campaigns.ABX + demand gen = harmony, not competition At Workday, the ABX team focuses on the top 15% of high-scoring accounts, while demand gen drives scale. Together they operate like retail tiers, demand gen as the “big box store,” ABX as the “personal shopper,” and 1:1 ABM as the “bespoke tailor.”Messaging makes or breaks sales Even the best solution fails with the wrong message. Alignment between marketing and sales must start with consistent, audience-specific messaging that speaks to pain points, not features.AI is the amplifier, not the author Craig uses AI tools like Gemini to analyze data sets in hours instead of days but stresses the importance of human instinct: “AI can't feel what will resonate, but it can help you see what you'd otherwise miss.”Quotes“The right message at the wrong time is just as bad as the wrong message altogether.”Tech RecommendationsDemandbase Salesforce Google GeminiMarketoHubSpotResource RecommendationsBlog:Niel Patel: Author: Neil Patel | Co Founder of NP Digital & Owner of UbersuggestPodcast:Martech Podcast: Marketing technology trends and tools.Shout-OutsMatthew Miller - Sr Principal, Global ABX. Workday.About the GuestCraig Abramson is a strategic and results-driven marketing leader with extensive experience driving growth for B2B software companies. He has proven expertise in developing and executing full-funnel marketing strategies that dramatically increase brand awareness, accelerate lead generation and drive pipeline, consistently exceeding KPIs. A master of implementing bootstrap marketing techniques to achieve outstanding results regardless of budget, he is skilled in Go-to-Market planning, AI optimization, SEO/SEM, Marketo automation, content strategy, and analyst relations, with a history of leading companies from startup to successful acquisition. Craig most recently was brought on to lead marketing at Zimit, a services configure price quote SaaS solution. Zimit was acquired by Workday in 2022. Craig continues to work at Workday on the Account Based Experience team, running global programs to drive pipeline from the top 15% of accounts that are most likely in the market for Workday's solutions.Connect with Craig.

In this OnBase episode, host Chris Moody reconnects with marketing visionary Jon Miller for a deep dive into the evolution of B2B marketing and the transformative role of artificial intelligence in shaping the future of go-to-market strategy.Jon shares his remarkable journey, from studying physics to co-founding Marketo and Engagio, joining Demandbase, and now launching his next venture at the cutting edge of AI. He reflects on the lessons learned from past technology revolutions, drawing parallels between the early internet era and today's AI boom.Listeners gain an inside look at how AI is fundamentally changing both software innovation and buyer behavior, why marketers must shift from quantity to quality-driven personalization, and what it takes to build organizations that thrive in an AI-first world.This episode is packed with insights for anyone navigating marketing's AI transformation, from creative storytellers to data-driven tacticians.Key TakeawaysThe Biggest Shift Since the Internet AI isn't just another tech trend, it's as transformative as the rise of the internet. We're entering a new era where software can do things we never imagined, enabling businesses that couldn't exist before.The “Jagged Frontier” of AI AI excels at some tasks and fails at others. The key is daily experimentation, understanding where AI amplifies your strengths and where human oversight is indispensable.From Quantity to Quality The goal isn't to send more emails, it's to deliver more relevant experiences. AI's true power lies in helping marketers achieve genuine one-to-one personalization through smarter orchestration, not mass automation.The Human – AI Partnership Future success lies in collaboration: humans provide creativity and empathy; AI handles data, optimization, and orchestration. Together, they create outcomes neither could achieve alone.Culture Determines AI Success Technology adoption starts with leadership. Organizations must build AI fluency into their culture, encouraging training, experimentation, and open sharing of prompts and insights.Emotion Drives Storytelling Even in B2B, emotion matters. Great storytelling taps into curiosity, excitement, and drama, whether through stealth launches, community intrigue, or relatable human experiences.Marketing Measurement Is Broken B2B marketers are still judged on MQLs and short-term results, despite the nonlinear reality of buying behavior. We need new ways to measure marketing that reflect its true long-term impact.Quotes“Don't use AI like a faster typewriter. Use it as a new form of intelligence that helps you think better.”Tech recommendationsDescript – For seamless AI-powered video and podcast editing.Crosby.ai – An AI-enabled law firm combining automation with human legal review.Resource recommendationsBooksThe Advantage by Patrick Lencioni – A guide to building healthy, high-performing organizations.Setting the Table by Danny Meyer – Lessons on culture and leadership from the hospitality world.Turn the Ship Around by L. David Marquet – Empowerment and leadership through intentional communication.NewsletterAlmost Timely Newsletter by Chris Penn.Kieran Flanahan Newsletter on Medium.Shout-outsChris Penn – AI strategist and co-founder of Trust Insights.Kieran Flanagan – SVP, Marketing, AI & GTM (SVP) and B2B growth expert and AI prompt innovator.Kathleen Schwab – Author of Marketing in the Great Big Messy World.About the GuestJon Miller is a marketing technology pioneer and serial founder. He co-founded Marketo, Engagio, and later served as CMO of Demandbase, helping redefine how B2B companies go to market. Now building his next AI-focused startup, Jon also advises tech companies on strategy and growth. A frequent keynote speaker and author of The Definitive Guides to ABM and Marketing Automation, he's been recognized as one of the world's top B2B marketers.Connect with Jon.

In this episode, we sit down with Nick Bonfiglio, CEO and Co-Founder of Syncari, to explore how Agentic Master Data Management (Agentic MDM) is revolutionizing the way enterprises handle data. Nick shares his insights on building AI-ready data infrastructures, the importance of trusted data for automation and decision-making, and how Syncari is helping companies unify, govern, and synchronize their information across systems in real time. With patented multi-directional synchronization and an intelligent data quality engine, Syncari empowers organizations to eliminate data silos, enforce integrity, and achieve real-time governance. Nick also discusses his journey from leading global product at Marketo—growing it from $2.5M to $300M ARR—to now driving innovation at Syncari, where the focus is on enabling AI-driven enterprises to scale faster and smarter. If you're passionate about AI, data management, or the future of automation, this episode will give you an inside look at how data trust fuels the next generation of intelligent systems. Host: Jake Aaron Villarreal, leads the top AI Recruitment Firm in Silicon Valley www.matchrelevant.com, uncovering stories of funded startups and goes behinds to scenes to tell their founders journey.  If you are growing AI Startup or have a great storytelling, email us at: jake.villarreal@matchrelevant.com

Warren Zenna sits down with Michael Maimone, CRO at LucidLink, to unpack his journey from BDR to enterprise sales leader to CRO. Michael shares how his time at IBM, Marketo, Adobe, and ZoomInfo shaped a systems mindset, enabling him to translate big-company rigor into agile, early-stage execution without stifling momentum.They dive into the first 30-60-90 days in the seat: observe, diagnose, implement. Michael explains how he sequenced quick wins—enablement, RevOps guardrails, hiring profiles, interview kits—before rolling out robust territory, account, and opportunity planning. He emphasizes credibility through results and the art of modulation when change-managing seasoned teams.Michael details LucidLink's category-defining approach to distributed cloud file access for massive media and design workflows, and how that expands into broader enterprise use cases. He outlines direct and channel motions, global team structure, and the zero-knowledge security model that unlocks collaboration without compromising control.The conversation closes with pragmatic AI adoption across Gong, ZoomInfo, dialers, website conversion, and Gemini-driven planning. Michael shares early signal lifts, how to beat tool fatigue, why human analysts still matter, and advice to aspiring CROs: lead cross-functionally, stay humble, build lieutenants, and align every motion to predictable, scalable revenue.

Successful marketers are able to anticipate and act on opportunities and trends, but what happens when the next 10 days can be as difficult to predict as the next 10 years?Agility requires not only rapid responses to changing market conditions, but also the ability to anticipate and proactively shape those conditions to your advantage. It's no longer enough to react; you have to predict and influence.Today, we're going to talk about navigating the uncertainties of the current digital advertising environment and maximizing ROI when forecasting feels like gazing into a crystal ball. To help me discuss this topic, I'd like to welcome, Heidi Bullock, CMO at Tealium. About Heidi Bullock Currently the CMO of Tealium, a customer data platform (CDP) provider, Heidi Bullock is an experienced marketing executive who has built a 20+ year career working at both global enterprise technology companies and start-ups. Prior, she was the CMO of Engagio, where she was responsible for the go-to-market strategy, product marketing, internal sales, corporate communications and ABM initiatives. Before Engagio, Heidi was the Group Vice President of Global Marketing at Marketo. Heidi has contributed to key thought leadership guides, including the Clear and Complete Guide to ABM Analytics and the Definitive Guide to Account-Based Marketing, Lead Generation, Content, Mobile Marketing, and Engaging Email. Heidi is a frequent speaker and guest lecturer for B2B marketing. Heidi Bullock on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/hbullock/ Resources Tealium: https://www.tealium.com The Agile Brand podcast is brought to you by TEKsystems. Learn more here: https://www.teksystems.com/versionnextnowTry ZipRecruiter for FREE at ZipRecruiter.com/audio Don't Miss MAICON 2025, October 14-16 in Cleveland - the event bringing together the brights minds and leading voices in AI. Use Code AGILE150 for $150 off registration. Go here to register: https://bit.ly/agile150 Connect with Greg on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/gregkihlstromDon't miss a thing: get the latest episodes, sign up for our newsletter and more: https://www.theagilebrand.showCheck out The Agile Brand Guide website with articles, insights, and Martechipedia, the wiki for marketing technology: https://www.agilebrandguide.com The Agile Brand is produced by Missing Link—a Latina-owned strategy-driven, creatively fueled production co-op. From ideation to creation, they craft human connections through intelligent, engaging and informative content. https://www.missinglink.company Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Successful marketers are able to anticipate and act on opportunities and trends, but what happens when the next 10 days can be as difficult to predict as the next 10 years? Agility requires not only rapid responses to changing market conditions, but also the ability to anticipate and proactively shape those conditions to your advantage. It's no longer enough to react; you have to predict and influence.Today, we're going to talk about navigating the uncertainties of the current digital advertising environment and maximizing ROI when forecasting feels like gazing into a crystal ball. To help me discuss this topic, I'd like to welcome, Heidi Bullock, CMO at Tealium. About Heidi Bullock Currently the CMO of Tealium, a customer data platform (CDP) provider, Heidi Bullock is an experienced marketing executive who has built a 20+ year career working at both global enterprise technology companies and start-ups. Prior, she was the CMO of Engagio, where she was responsible for the go-to-market strategy, product marketing, internal sales, corporate communications and ABM initiatives. Before Engagio, Heidi was the Group Vice President of Global Marketing at Marketo. Heidi has contributed to key thought leadership guides, including the Clear and Complete Guide to ABM Analytics and the Definitive Guide to Account-Based Marketing, Lead Generation, Content, Mobile Marketing, and Engaging Email. Heidi is a frequent speaker and guest lecturer for B2B marketing. Heidi Bullock on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/hbullock/ Resources Tealium: https://www.tealium.com The Agile Brand podcast is brought to you by TEKsystems. Learn more here: https://www.teksystems.com/versionnextnow Try ZipRecruiter for FREE at ZipRecruiter.com/audio Don't Miss MAICON 2025, October 14-16 in Cleveland - the event bringing together the brights minds and leading voices in AI. Use Code AGILE150 for $150 off registration. Go here to register: https://bit.ly/agile150 Connect with Greg on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/gregkihlstromDon't miss a thing: get the latest episodes, sign up for our newsletter and more: https://www.theagilebrand.showCheck out The Agile Brand Guide website with articles, insights, and Martechipedia, the wiki for marketing technology: https://www.agilebrandguide.com The Agile Brand is produced by Missing Link—a Latina-owned strategy-driven, creatively fueled production co-op. From ideation to creation, they craft human connections through intelligent, engaging and informative content. https://www.missinglink.company

This episode of the OnBase Podcast delivers a masterclass in building modern go-to-market strategies with ABM at their heart. Host Paul Gibson talks with Robert Norum about why a focused, account-based approach is no longer optional for B2B organizations—it's essential. Robert breaks down the journey from traditional, volume-based marketing to a sophisticated, tiered ABM model that aligns the entire organization.The conversation uncovers the most common challenges businesses face when adopting ABM, from securing leadership buy-in to managing expectations and moving beyond outdated MQL metrics. Robert provides a clear roadmap for success, emphasizing that ABM is not just a marketing tactic but a company-wide directive that unites sales, marketing, and customer success into a single, powerful growth engine.Listen to the full episode to gain the confidence and clarity needed to make ABM your primary GTM strategy.Key TakeawaysABM is the Go-to-Market StrategyFor enterprise organizations, ABM should be the central GTM strategy, not just another marketing program.Focus is EverythingAn account-based approach forces you to concentrate your budget, resources, and people on the accounts that truly matter..Alignment is Non-NegotiableSuccess depends on creating a "SWAT team" across sales, marketing, and customer success, all working toward shared account goals.Pilots Can Be a TrapTreating ABM as a short-term pilot is a recipe for failure; it requires long-term investment and commitment from the top down.Measure What MattersMove beyond MQLs and vanity metrics. Focus on moving the dial within target accounts, expanding your footprint, and creating real pipeline opportunities..Quotes"ABM is the glue that has the potential to really connect organizations and break down silos across different teams"Best Moments (04:37) – The Evolution of ABM: Robert discusses how ABM grew from a one-to-one approach for large enterprises to a scalable, multi-tiered strategy.(09:05) – The Case for Focus: Why concentrating on high-value accounts is the most critical decision a B2B business can make today.(20:12) – The Biggest ABM Challenge: The most common mistake companies make is diving in without defining what ABM means for their organization and getting leadership buy-in.(24:17) – The End of Silos: How an account-based approach fosters an equal partnership between sales and marketing.(30:50) – Winning Over Leadership: Strategies for building a compelling business case for ABM and getting the C-suite excited.(42:40) – The Role of AI: How AI will accelerate ABM, but human intelligence remains essential to brief, interpret, and quality-check the output.Resource RecommendationsBooks:Account-Based Marketing: The Definitive Handbook for B2B Marketers by Bev Burgess.Shout-OutsJon Miller - MarTech entrepreneur,Co-founder at Marketo and EngagioMarta George - Head of EMEA AMB Programmes, Ping Identity.Lianne O'Connor - Global Field & ABM Marketing Director, Fluke Corporation.Andy Johnson - Founder and Director of Client Strategy, HUT 3.Charlotte Graham-Cumming - CEO, Ice Blue Sky Corporation.About the GuestRobert Norum is a B2B Marketer with over 30 years experience. He has worked in magazine publishing, IT distribution, marketing agencies and for the last 20 years as an independent marketing consultant. During this time he has worked on brand, demandgen, channel, ecommerce and sales enablement. For the last 10 years he had specialised in ABM working with a number of leading agencies and directly for wide cross-section of global brands. Since 2017, he has delivered the ABM Essentials training course for B2B Marketing training over 750 marketing professionals in the process. Robert has also been the ABM and Demand Strategy Expert on Propolis since its launch.Connect with Robert.

#280 Strategy | In this episode, Dave is joined by Gurdeep Dhillon, CMO of Contentstack. Gurdeep has built an impressive career leading marketing at some of the biggest names in enterprise software, from SAP to Adobe, Marketo to Zoura. Now at Content Stack, he's challenging conventional B2B marketing wisdom in rethinking how enterprise companies should approach demand generation and brand building. In this conversation, Dave and Gurdeep dive deep into why marketing is ultimately a game of memory and reputation, not just lead generation.Dave and Gurdeep cover:The role of Demand Gen in 2025 (and what's changed)Why Brand and Reputation should be prioritized over Lead GenerationProven strategies to create urgency and close sales deals in enterprise marketsA glimpse into ContentStack's team structure and how they plan for growthTimestamps(00:00) - - Intro to Gurdeep (06:51) - - Brand and Audience Marketing (08:03) - - How the Role of Demand Gen is Changing (12:13) - - Brand and Reputation > Lead Generation (17:03) - - How Contentstack is Doing Demand Gen (19:41) - - How to Create Urgency to Win Sales Deals (21:22) - - Making a Good Offer in B2B Marketing (22:38) - - Why Being Bold and Taking Risks is Important in Marketing (28:57) - - Selling Your Vision to Leadership (31:38) - - How Contentstack Has Over 10,000 Global ICP Accounts (36:21) - - Team Structure at Contentstack (41:19) - - Running Marketing and Operating a High-Performing Team (43:35) - - Setting Effective Annual Plans (45:50) - - AI's Role in Marketing (49:24) - - Closing Thoughts Send guest pitches and ideas to hi@exitfive.comJoin the Exit Five Newsletter here: https://www.exitfive.com/newsletterCheck out the Exit Five job board: https://jobs.exitfive.com/Become an Exit Five member: https://community.exitfive.com/checkout/exit-five-membership***This episode of the Exit Five podcast is brought to you by Qualified.AI is the hottest topic in marketing right now. And one thing we hear a lot of you marketers talking about is how you can use AI Agents to help run your marketing machine.That's where Qualifed comes in with Piper, their AI SDR agent.Piper is the #1 AI SDR Agent on the market according to G2, and hundreds of companies like Box, Asana, and Brex, have hired Piper to autonomously grow inbound pipeline. How good does that sound?Qualified customers are seeing a massive business impact with Piper: a 3X increase in meetings booked and a 2X increase in pipeline.The Agentic Marketing era has arrived. And if you're a B2B marketing leader looking to scale pipeline generation, Piper the #1 AI SDR Agent is here to help.Hire Piper, the #1 AI SDR Agent, and grow your pipeline today.You can learn more at qualified.com/exit5

Follow me @samirkaji for my thoughts on the venture market, with a focus on the continued evolution of the VC landscape.Welcome back to another episode of Venture Unlocked, the podcast that takes you behind the scenes of the business of venture capital.In today's episode, we are joined by Nakul Mandan, who is the founding partner of seed-stage firm Audacious Ventures.Having known Nakul since the early days of his journey in starting the firm in 2020, I was excited to dive deep into his unique path, from his roots in India to venture capital, working at firms such as Battery and Lightspeed before starting his own firm. As venture capital has evolved and grown, the stakes of being a successful early-stage manager have increased dramatically.In our chat, we discussed how managers should think about navigating competitive markets and how a proper system around sourcing, picking, winning, and building a brand through delivering for founders requires a machine-like approach. Audacious has created its own system, which is unlike most firms, providing a nice juxtaposition of more traditional models. This was a fun and candid deep dive into seed stage investing, and we hope you enjoy my conversation with NakulThanks for listening to another episode of Venture Unlocked. We hope you enjoyed our conversation with Nakul. If you'd like to get venture unlocked content straight to your inbox, go to ventureunlocked.substack.com and sign up, or go to Apple Podcasts or Spotify and subscribe. Thanks again for listeningAbout Nakul MandanNakul Mandan is the founder and managing partner of Audacious Ventures, a pre-seed and seed-stage venture firm he launched in April 2020—right when the world was locking down. A student of greatness, Nakul is inspired by extraordinary journeys, whether in business or beyond. Previously a Partner at Lightspeed and Battery Ventures, he led early investments in category-leading software companies like Gainsight, People.ai, Multiverse, WorkOS, 6Sense, and Marketo. A graduate of IIT Kanpur, Nakul combines deep technical insight with a founder-first mindset—and a passion for helping entrepreneurial "force-of-nature" founders assemble A+ teams.Audacious Ventures is a next-generation seed-stage investment firm that reimagines venture capital as a systematic, founder-focused platform. Founded in 2020 with a $90 million fund, the firm distinguishes itself through a unique four-pillar approach: strategic sourcing, precise deal picking, competitive deal winning, and comprehensive founder support. Unlike traditional venture models, Audacious prioritizes talent recruitment and team building, with half the team dedicated to helping founders construct exceptional organizations. The firm's data-driven yet intensely human approach has quickly positioned it as an emerging leader in the seed investment ecosystem, attracting founders seeking more than just capital, but a true strategic partner in their entrepreneurial journey.In this episode, we discuss:* Nakul's Early Life and Ambition (2:16)* Entry into Indian Venture Capital (4:00)* Transition to US-Focused VC and Lightspeed (6:41)* Becoming a GP and Founding Audacious Ventures (7:35)* Identifying Gaps in the Seed VC Market (10:34)* Audacious Ventures' Differentiated Model (12:34)* Functional Organizational Design (16:12)* Traditional vs. Platform Seed Fund Models (19:24)* Ensuring Consistency in the Platform Model (24:41)* Hiring for Intensity and Culture (29:55)* Measuring Success and Feedback Loops (35:33)* False Positives and Markups in VC (41:30)* Ranking the Four Pillars: Sourcing, Picking, Winning, Helping (45:13)* Advice to 2006 Self: Focus on Asymmetric Upside (49:54)* Final Thoughts and Takeaways (51:44)I'd love to know what you took away from this conversation with Nakul. Follow me @SamirKaji and give me your insights and questions with the hashtag #ventureunlocked. If you'd like to be considered as a guest or have someone you'd like to hear from (GP or LP), drop me a direct message on X. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit ventureunlocked.substack.com

Kieran Flanagan is the CMO at HubSpot, where he's led the transformation of their growth strategy from SEO-led to multi-channel and AI-powered. Formerly SVP of Marketing, he helped scale HubSpot's user base to millions and revenue past $2B. Before HubSpot, he drove breakout growth at Marketo and Salesforce. Kieran is one of the most respected voices in SaaS marketing and a pioneer in growth-driven content strategy. Agenda: 00:03 – The Death of Growth Teams? Kieran's Wild Prediction 06:44 – AI Innovation Pods: The New Org Structure for Startups 10:18 – Email Personalization That Tripled Conversions 13:21 – From Software Budget to Labor Budget: The Shift is Happening 16:35 – The Big Lie: Why Autonomous Agents Still Suck 19:24 – The Secret Sauce Behind HubSpot's Email AI Stack 21:44 – Segment-Based Marketing Is Dead. Enter Micro Audiences. 24:15 – Content Collapse: Why Google Organic Is Getting Torched 30:52 – The Future of AI SEO: 1 Product, 100 Pages, Infinite Prompts 33:16 – Memory = Moat: Why ChatGPT Is Becoming Unbeatable 35:46 – Prompt Engineering is the New Coding: Here's How to Win 41:03 – The Death of the Middle Manager Marketer 46:17 – OpenAI vs. Anthropic: Kieran's $400M Bet 48:00 – Europe Is Falling Behind: The Harsh Truth on Regulation 52:39 – CMO Playbook 2025: Micro-Audiences, Creator-Led, AI at Scale    

Welcome to the What's Next! Podcast with Tiffani Bova.    This week, we hear from Steve Lucas. Steve is a seasoned executive with nearly 30 years of experience in enterprise software leadership. As the CEO of Boomi, he spearheads efforts to connect the world through a transformative technology platform. Previously, he was the CEO of Marketo and iCIMS. At Marketo, he transformed the company's sales, marketing, and product strategies, culminating in its 2018 acquisition by Adobe. At iCIMS, he introduced the Talent Cloud, enabling 40% of the Fortune 100 to hire millions of employees annually. Earlier roles included senior executive positions at Adobe, SAP, Salesforce, and BusinessObjects.    THIS EPISODE IS PERFECT FOR…business leaders navigating digital transformation, especially those eager to understand how AI will reshape organizations.   TODAY'S MAIN MESSAGE…it's easy to get swept up in the hype around AI, but what does transformation actually look like in practice? Steve explores the dramatic shift AI is bringing to enterprise software, from the rise of AI agents to the decline of traditional user interfaces. He shares how businesses can prepare for an agentic future where success will depend on collaboration between humans and AI.   KEY TAKEAWAYS: Human resistance to change is often about trust and not capability AI won't replace humans but augment them (if we allow it) Leaders should focus less on tools and more on the business outcomes they unlock   WHAT I LOVE MOST…Steve's reminder that in a world full of hype and disruption, trust is still the currency that matters most. No matter how powerful AI becomes, if people don't trust it or the companies using it, it won't deliver value.   Running Time: 28:44    Subscribe on iTunes     Find Tiffani Online: LinkedIn Facebook X    Find Steve Online: LinkedIn   Steve's Book: Digital Impact: The Human Element of AI-Driven Transformation  

Send us a textIn a world where every software platform claims to do marketing automation, the line between true orchestration and glorified batch-and-blast gets blurry fast. Enterprise marketers, in particular, need more than bolt-on features—they need a unified engine that can keep cross-channel journeys seamless, scalable, and, ideally, sanity-preserving. That's where Marketo Engage, now under the Adobe Experience Cloud umbrella, steps in with its deep event management capabilities, brand governance tools, and robust automation muscle. But with great power comes a learning curve—and often a hefty price tag. So the real question isn't just what Marketo can do, but how it performs in the wild compared to other heavyweight contenders in the marketing tech arena.In today's episode, we invited a panel of industry experts for a live discussion on LinkedIn to conduct an independent review of Marketo's capabilities. We covered many grounds, including where Marketo might be a fit in the enterprise architecture and where it might be overused. Finally, they analyze many data points to help understand the core strengths and weaknesses of Marketo.Background Soundtrack: Away From You – Mauro SommFor more information on growth strategies for SMBs using ERP and digital transformation, visit our community at wbs.rocks or elevatiq.com. To ensure that you never miss an episode of the WBS podcast, subscribe on your favorite podcasting platform.

For B2B marketers, reaching the right decision-makers can feel like searching for a needle in a haystack. Traditional lead generation tactics often produce high volumes of low-quality leads that rarely convert, while valuable opportunities slip through the cracks. Account-based marketing (ABM) flips this model on its head by focusing your resources on a carefully selected …

Thank you, Martin, for going back in time with The Sales Evangelist podcast. Thanks to him, we're going back to episode 1177 where I deep-dived into why leads are creating more work for us.In this episode, I share why many small organizations struggle with their inbound sales and how to fix it. The challenge is always deciding who should follow up on them and how to do it effectively.The Sales TeamAssume that a sales team is composed of three people: the marketing person who does almost everything, the junior assistant who helps with content creation, and the outsourced person who does the marketing strategies. Among the three, who should follow-up the lead? Not all leads are created equal. This means that before deciding who will follow up the lead, the lead should be evaluated first.You don't want your salesperson pitching to a lead that in the end would go to another competitor.Do a Pre-QualificationDo a pre-qualification in your organization to know if the people you are going to have the conversation with are ready to consider the deal. Set a benchmark and rules for what you consider a marketing quantifiable lead. Consider the following questions: What is considered a sales qualified lead?What is the KPI of your organization? How many new inbound leads do you want to get per quarter/per month?How much money do you want to generate from those leads?The answers to those questions will lead you to your ideal customer. It would also help you identify the triggers that qualify them to be a marketing quantifiable lead and a sales qualified lead. The work is far more efficient because when a lead comes in, your salespeople can vet them and follow the pre-qualification factors you've set to see if the lead can generate new business for the organization. This is also helpful in maintaining your current customers. Create a SystemCreate a system to efficiently manage the workload. The marketing team can do the pre-qualification to increase the odds of the lead being converted into something real. Whenever a lead comes in, let marketing take a look at it and check the website and the title of the person. Then let the intern or junior marketing rep take over the other tasks like looking into LinkedIn, HubSpot, Marketo, or other platforms you have to find the data that you can transfer into your CRM. Marketing can help fix the problem of having to go back to the beginning of the funnel and pre-qualify the leads again because they're not yet ready at the moment. Website Leads MatterThe sales team sometimes takes for granted the leads that they didn't hunt for. A good example is leads coming in from the websites. It is disheartening when a sales rep doesn't take that into consideration when a lead comes in via the website. Whenever an inbound lead comes in, it is best to use your flow process to follow-up particular prospects. It should be written and put in your company's playbook so that everyone can read it and use it with every inbound lead that comes in.Follow-up Right Away A stat from insidesales.com said that a lead that's contacted within five minutes is 100 times more likely to convert than leads that are followed-up 90 minutes later.When a lead comes in, follow up right away. You're more likely to convert than if you wait. The sales team can take a quick visit to the person's website, check their LinkedIn profile, and the pages they've visited on your site. Focus On The People That...

Chandar Pattabhiram, marketing maestro and Chief Go-to-Market Officer at Workato, shares his expertise on the agentic economy and the revolutionary impact of AI on go-to-market strategies.• The rise of AI agents brings productivity without pause, enabling organizations to shift from reactive to proactive approaches• Current AI implementation remains largely experimental and edge-focused rather than addressing core business processes• Workato's approach focuses on cross-functional processes versus siloed applications to prevent agent sprawl• Traditional go-to-market principles still apply – win more, win bigger, win faster – but AI provides unprecedented efficiency• Enterprise context is crucial for AI effectiveness – it's not just about LLMs but Enterprise Learning Models (ELMs)• AI enhances storytelling capabilities but emotional connection remains essential – "heart to head, not head to heart"• Success requires identifying your "onlyness" and selling to markets that value your unique differentiation• Bring philosophies rather than playbooks when moving between companies• Balance technical understanding with human connection – "CTFO: chill the F out"• Life ultimately comes down to health, experiences, and relationships (H-E-R)Ready to master go-to-market strategy in the AI era? Chandar Pattabhiram reveals the secrets behind scaling companies into billion-dollar powerhouses:

Brand isn't just a creative exercise — it's a product that drives ROI.Back for his third appearance on the Focus on Brand podcast, Sergio Claudio (ex-Adobe, Marketo, Zuora) joins us to challenge how organizations perceive and measure creativity. Is it just a cost center—or a powerful growth engine?In this episode, Sergio unpacks how creative work can (and should) drive business outcomes. From C-suite blockers to strategic alignment, we cover how to elevate creative teams from "make it pretty" to make it perform.What we cover:

Is it possible that a whole generation of consent-management solutions built for the EU-driven opt-in world are unsuitable for the opt-out scenario predominant in the US? How are DPOs and AI Governance professionals to deal with “shadow AI” and “shadow IT”?  Daniel Barber is DataGrail's CEO and co-founder. Prior to DataGrail Daniel led revenue teams at DocuSign, Datanyze (acquired by ZoomInfo), ToutApp (acquired by Marketo) and Responsys (acquired by Oracle). He also advises several high-growth startups. References: Daniel Barber on LinkedIn Unveiling DataGrail's 2024 Data Privacy Trends Report: The Time Data Subject Requests Surged 246% in Two Years DataGrail Privacy Inspector (Chrome Web Store) Max Anderson (Ketch): Privacy Tech spotlight I – the future of CMPs, value vs. hype in privacy compliance SaaS (Masters of Privacy, April 2025)

The CEO's Strategic Growth Edge: A Go-To-Market System That Scales“You don't need more leads—you need clarity. Clarity on where your business can grow the most, the fastest, and at the highest margin. That's what a real go-to-market system delivers. It's not about volume anymore—it's about alignment, focus, and making sure every team—marketing, sales, and customer success—is executing toward the same outcome. That's how CEOs scale with confidence.” That's a quote from Sangram Vajre, and a sneak peek at today's episode.Welcome to Revenue Boost: A Marketing Podcast. I'm your host, Kerry Curran—revenue growth expert, industry analyst, and relentless advocate for turning marketing into a revenue engine. Each episode, we bring you the strategies, insights, and conversations that help drive your revenue growth. So search for Revenue Boost in your favorite podcast directory and hit subscribe to stay ahead of the game.In The CEO's Strategic Growth Edge: A Go-to-Market System That Scales, I'm joined by bestselling author and GTM expert Sangram Vajre to discuss why go-to-market isn't a marketing tactic—it's a CEO-level growth system. In this episode, you'll learn the three phases every business must navigate to scale, why alignment beats activity in every growth stage, how CEOs can drive clarity, trust, and margin-focused decisions across teams, and why AI is only a threat if you're still riding the demand-gen horse.If you're a growth-minded CEO or exec, this episode gives you the roadmap and the mindset to scale faster, smarter, and stronger. Be sure to listen through to the end, where Sangram shares three key tips—his ultimate advice for any leader ready to level up their go-to-market strategy. Let's go!Kerry Curran, RBMA (00:00.77)So welcome, Sangram. Please introduce yourself and share a bit about your background and expertise.Sangram Vajre (00:06.992)Well, at the highest level, I feel like I've had the opportunity to be in the B2B space for the last two decades and have had a front-row seat to categories that have shaped how we think about go-to-market. I ran marketing at Pardot. We were acquired by ExactTarget and then Salesforce—that was a $2.7 billion acquisition. It was a huge shift in mindset, going from a $10 million company to a $10 billion one, and I learned a lot.I became a student of go-to-market, if you will. That was in the marketing automation space. Then I launched a company called Terminus, which has been acquired twice now. Along the way, I've written three books. The one we're going to talk a lot about is MOVE, which became a Wall Street Journal bestseller. That book has created a lot of opportunities and work for us.I walked into writing this book, Kerry, thinking I knew go-to-market because I had two $100M+ exits. But I walked out of the process a student of go-to-market because I learned so much. Writing it forced me to talk to folks like Brian Halligan, the CEO of HubSpot, and partners at VC firms who have seen 200 exits—not just the three I've experienced.It really expanded my vision. Now I lead a company called Go-To-Market Partners. We're a research and advisory firm focused on helping companies understand who owns go-to-market and how to run it at a transformational level. Our clients are primarily CEOs and executive teams. That's our focus.Kerry Curran, RBMA (01:46.094)Excellent. Well, I'm very excited to dive in. I first saw you speak at Inbound last fall, and what really resonated with me was the shift from just an ABM program to a company-wide GTM program—one that includes everything from problem-market fit all the way to customer success, loyalty, and retention. Really making GTM the core of revenue growth.So I'd love for you to dive in and share that framework and background.Sangram Vajre (02:23.224)Yeah. And by the way, for people who've never attended Inbound—you should. I've spoken there for eight years straight and always try to bring new ideas. Each year, they keep giving me more opportunities—from main stage to workshops. I think you attended the 90-minute workshop, right? Hopefully it wasn't boring!Kerry Curran, RBMA (02:48.61)Yeah, it was excellent. I love this stuff, so I was taking lots of notes.Sangram Vajre (02:52.814)That was fun. The whole idea was: how can you build your entire go-to-market strategy on a single slide? Now, people might think, “There's no way—you need way more detail.” But it's not about making it complete; it's about making it clear.So everyone can be aligned. For example, in the operating system we've developed, we write research about it every Monday in a newsletter called GTM Monday, read by 175,000 people. The eight pillars are based on the most important questions. And Kerry, I don't know if you'll agree, but I think I've done a disservice for two decades by asking the wrong question.Like, I used to ask, “Where can we grow?”—which sounds smart but is actually foolish. The better question is, “Where can we grow the most, the fastest, the best, at the highest margin?” That's the true business perspective. So the operating system is built around these eight essential questions.If every executive team can align on these—not with certainty, but with clarity—then they can gain a clear understanding of what they're doing, where they're going, who their ICP is, what bets they're making, and which motions to pursue. I've done this over a thousand times with executive teams, helping them build their entire go-to-market strategy on a single slide. And it's like a lightbulb moment for them: “Okay, now I know what bets we're making and how my team is aligned.” It's a beautiful thing.Kerry Curran, RBMA (04:50.988)Yeah, because that's one of the hardest challenges across business strategy and growth: where to invest, where to lean in. So bring us through the questions and framework.Sangram Vajre (05:01.688)Yeah. So the first one is “Where can you grow the most?” The second one is really about what we call the Market Investment Map. I'll give you maybe three or four so people can get an idea. The Market Investment Map is especially useful for companies with more than one product or more than one segment. This is the least used but most valuable framework companies should be using.You might remember from the Inbound talk—I used HubSpot as an example since I was speaking at Inbound. It's interesting because at my last company, Terminus, we acquired five companies in eight years. So we had to learn this process. The Market Investment Map is about matching your best segments to the best products to create the highest-margin offering.If your entire business focuses only on pipeline and revenue—which sounds right—you're actually focused on the wrong things. You may have seen people post on LinkedIn saying, “I generated $10 million in pipeline,” and then a month later, they're laid off. Why? Because that pipeline didn't matter. It might have been general pipeline, but if you looked at pipeline within your ICP—the customers your company really needs to close, retain, and expand—it might have only been half a million. That's not enough to sustain growth or justify your role.So, understanding the business is critical. It's not just about understanding marketing skills like demand gen, content, or design. Those are table stakes. You need to understand the business of marketing—how the financials work, how to drive revenue, and how to say, “Yeah, we generated $10 million in pipeline, but only half a million was within ICP, so it won't convert or drive the margin we need.” That level of EQ and IQ is what leaders need today.Our go-to-market operating system goes deep into areas like this.Kerry Curran, RBMA (07:31.022)And I love the alignment with the ICP. I'm sure you'll get deeper into that. I also know you talk about getting rid of MQLs because the real focus should be on getting closer to the ICP—on who's actually going to drive revenue.Sangram Vajre (07:45.892)Yeah. John Miller, a good friend who co-founded Marketo, has been writing about this too. I was the CMO of Pardot. Then we both built ABM companies—I built Terminus; he built Engagio, which is now part of Demandbase. We've been evangelizing the idea of efficient marketing machines for the last two decades.We're coming full circle now. That approach made sense in the “growth at all costs” era. But in this “efficient growth” era, everything can be measured. The dark funnel is real. AI can now accelerate your team's output and throughput. So we have to go back to first principles—what do your customers really want?I was in a discussion yesterday with executives and middle managers, and the topic of AI came up. Some were worried it would take their jobs. And I said, “Yes, it absolutely will—and it should.” I gave the example I wrote about recently: imagine you were the best horseman, with saddles, barns, and a generational business built around horses. Then Henry Ford comes along with four wheels. You just lost your job—not because you were bad, but because you got infatuated with the horse, not with your customer's need to get from point A to point B.Horses did that—it was better than walking. But then came cars, trains, airplanes. Business evolves. If you focus on your customers' needs—better, faster, cheaper—you'll always be excited about innovation rather than afraid of it. So yes, AI will replace anyone who stays on their horse. If you're riding the demand gen horse or relying only on content creation, a lot is going to change. Get off the horse, refocus on customer needs, and figure out how to move your business forward.Kerry Curran, RBMA (10:21.708)Yeah. So talk a bit about honing in on the ICP. I know in one of the sessions you asked, “Who's your target audience?” And of course, there was one guy in the front row who said, “Everyone,” and we all laughed. But I still hear that all the time. Talk about how important it is, to your point, to know your customer and get obsessed with what they need.Sangram Vajre (10:45.56)Yeah. So the first pillar of the go-to-market operating system is called TRM, or Total Relevant Market. We introduced that in the book MOVE for the first time. It's a departure from TAM—Total Addressable Market—which is what that guy in the front row was referring to during that session. It was epic, and I think he was a sales leader, so it was even funnier in a room full of marketers.But it's true—and real. He was being honest, and I appreciated that. The reality is, we've all been conditioned to focus on more and more—bigger and bigger markets. That makes sense if you have unlimited funds and can raise money. It makes sense if the market is huge and you're just trying to get in and have more people doing outbound.As a matter of fact, a few weeks ago, we did a session where someone said something profound that I'll never forget. He said, “The whole SDR function is a feature bug in the VC model.” That was fascinating—because the whole SDR model was built to get as many leads as possible, assign 22-year-olds to make cold calls, and push them to AEs.We built this because it worked on a spreadsheet. If we generate 1,000 leads, we need 50 callers to convert them. It's math. But nobody really tried to improve it because we had the money. Now we're in a different world. We have clients doing $10–15 million in revenue with five-person teams automating so much.People don't read as many automated emails. My phone filters out robocalls, so I never pick up unless it's someone I know. Non-personalized emails go into a folder I never open. Yet people keep sending thousands of them, thinking it works.For example, I send our GTM Monday newsletter via Substack. It's free for readers, and it's free for me to send—even to 175,000 people. Meanwhile, marketers spend thousands every time they email their list using legacy tools. Why? Because these people haven't opted in to be part of the journey the way Substack subscribers have.The market has changed. Buying big marketing automation tools for $100,000 is going to change drastically. Fractional leaders and agencies will thrive because what CEOs really need is people like you—and frameworks like a go-to-market operating system—to guide them. You and I have the gray hair and battle scars to prove it. What matters now is using a modern framework, implementing it, and measuring outcomes differently.Kerry Curran, RBMA (14:08.11)Yeah, you bring up such a valid point. In so many of my conversations, I see the same thing. It's been a sales-led growth strategy for years. Investments went to sales—more BDRs, more cold emails, more tech stack partners.Even as I was starting my consultancy, I'd talk to partners or prospects who'd say, “Well, we just hired more salespeople. We want to see how that goes.” But to your point, without the foundational framework—without targeting the right audience—you're just spinning your wheels on volume.Sangram Vajre (15:06.318)Exactly. One area we emphasize in our go-to-market operating system is differentiation. Everyone's doing the same thing. Let me give you an example. Last week, I looked at a startup's email tool that reads your emails and drafts responses automatically. Super interesting. I use Superhuman for email.Two days later, Superhuman sent an email saying they'd launched the exact same feature. So this startup spent time and money building a feature, and Superhuman—already with a huge user base—replicated and launched it instantly. That startup is out of business.With AI, product development is lightning fast. So product is no longer your differentiator. Your differentiation now is how you tell your story, how quickly you grab attention, how well you build and maintain a community. That becomes your moat. Those first principles matter more than ever. Product is just table stakes now.Kerry Curran, RBMA (16:33.878)Right. And connecting that to your marketing strategy, your communication, your messaging—it also sets up your sales team to close faster. By the time a prospect talks to a rep, your marketing has already educated them on your differentiation. So talk more about the stages and what companies need to keep in mind when applying your go-to-market framework.Sangram Vajre (17:07.482)One of the things we mention in the book—and go really deep into in our operating system—is this 3P format: Problem-Market Fit, Product-Market Fit, and Platform-Market Fit. We believe these are the three core stages of a business. I experienced them firsthand at Pardot, Salesforce, and Terminus through multiple acquisitions.If you remember, I always talk about the “squiggly line,” because no company grows up and to the right in a straight line. If you look at daily, weekly, or monthly insights, there are dips—just like a stock market chart. So the squiggly line shows you can go from Problem to Product, but you'll experience a dip. That's normal and natural. Same thing when you go from Product to Platform—you hit a dip. Those dips are what we call the “valleys of death.”Some companies overcome those valleys and cross the chasm, and others don't. Why? Because at those points, they discover they can market and sell, but they can't deliver. Or maybe they can deliver, but they can't renew. Or maybe they can renew but not expand. Each gap becomes a value to fix in the system.And it's hard. I've gone from $5 million to $10 million to $15 million, all the way to $100 million in revenue—and every 5 to 10 million increment brings a new set of challenges. You think you've got it figured out, and then you don't—because everything else has to change with scale.I'll never forget one company I was on the board of—unfortunately, it didn't make it. The CEO was upset because they were doing $20 million in revenue but didn't get the valuation they wanted. Meanwhile, a competitor doing only $5 million in revenue in the same space got a $500 million valuation. Why? Because the $20M company was doing tons of customization—still stuck in Problem-Market Fit. The $5M company had reached Product-Market Fit and was far more efficient. Their operational costs were lower, and their NRR was over 120%.If you've read some of my research, you know I'm all in on NRR—Net Revenue Retention—as the #1 metric. If you get NRR above 120%, you'll double your revenue in 3.8 years without adding a single new customer. That's what executives should focus on.That's why we say the CEO owns go-to-market. All our research shows that if the CEO doesn't own it, you'll have a really hard time scaling.Kerry Curran, RBMA (20:23.992)That makes so much sense, because everything you're talking about—while it includes marketing functions—is really business strategy. It needs to be driven top-down. It has to be the North Star the whole company is paddling toward.I've been in organizations where that's not the case. And as you said, leadership has to have the knowledge and strategic awareness to navigate those pivots—those valleys of death. So talk about how hard it is to bring new frameworks into an organization and the change management that comes with that. As you evangelize the idea that the CEO owns GTM, what's resonating most with them?Sangram Vajre (21:26.456)Great question. First of all, CEOs who get it—they love it. The people who struggle most are actually CMOs and CROs because they feel like they should be the ones owning go-to-market. And while their input is critical, they can't own it entirely.In all our advisory work, Kerry, we mandate two things:The CEO must be in the room. We won't do an engagement without that. The executive team must be involved. We don't do one-on-one coaching—because transformation happens in teams.People often get it wrong. They think, “We need better ICP targeting, so that's marketing's job.” Or, “We need pipeline acceleration—let sales figure that out.” Or, “We have a retention issue—fire the CS team.” No. The problem isn't a department issue—it's a process and team issue.The CEO is the most incentivized person to bring clarity, alignment, and trust—the three pillars of our GTM operating system. They're the ones sitting in all the one-on-one meetings, burning out from the lack of alignment. The challenge is most CEOs don't know what it means to own GTM. It feels overwhelming.So we help them reframe that. Owning doesn't mean running GTM. It means orchestrating clarity, alignment, and trust. Every meeting they lead should advance one of those. That's the job. When the ICP is agreed upon, marketing should be excited to generate leads for it. Sales should be eager to follow up. CS should be relieved they're not getting misaligned customers. That's leadership. And there's no one more suited—or incentivized—to lead that than the CEO.Kerry Curran, RBMA (24:08.11)Absolutely. And the CFO plays a key role too—holding the purse strings, understanding where the investments should go.Sangram Vajre (24:20.622)Yes. In fact, in the book and in our research, we emphasize the importance of RevOps—especially once a company reaches Product-Market Fit and moves toward Platform-Market Fit.If you're operating across multiple products, segments, geographies, or using multiple GTM motions, the RevOps leader—who often reports to the CFO or CEO—becomes critical. I'd say they're the second most important person in the company from a strategy standpoint.Why? Because they're the only ones who can look at the whole picture and say, “We don't need to spend more on marketing; we need to fix the sales process.” A marketing leader won't say that. A sales leader won't say that. You need someone who can objectively assess where the real bottleneck is.Kerry Curran, RBMA (25:17.836)Yeah, that definitely makes so much sense. Are there other areas—maybe below the executive team—that help educate the company from a change management perspective to gain buy-in? Or is it really a company-wide change?Sangram Vajre (25:33.742)Yeah, you mentioned ABM earlier. Having written a few books on ABM and building Terminus, we've seen thousands of companies go through transformation. We now have over 70,000 students who've gone through our courses. I love getting feedback.What's interesting is that ABM has been great for aligning sales and marketing—but it hasn't transformed the company. Go-to-market is not a marketing or sales strategy. It's a business strategy. It has to bring in CS, product, finance—everyone.Where companies often fail is by looking at go-to-market too narrowly—like it's just a product launch or a sales campaign. That's way too myopic. Those companies burn a lot of cash.At the layer below the executive team, it gets harder because GTM is fundamentally a leadership-driven initiative. An SDR, AE, or director of marketing typically doesn't have the incentive—or business context—to drive GTM change. But they should get familiar with it.That's why we created the GTM Operating System certification. Hundreds of professionals have gone through it—including you! And now people are bringing those frameworks into leadership meetings.They'll say, “Hey, let's pull up the 15 GTM problems and see where we're stuck.” Or, “Let's revisit the 3 Ps—where are we today?” Or use one of the assessments. It's pretty cool to see it in action.Kerry Curran, RBMA (27:35.758)Yeah, and it's extremely valuable. I love that it's a tool that helps drive company-wide buy-in and educates the people responsible for the actions. So you've shared so many great frameworks and recommendations. For those listening, what's the first step to get started? What would you recommend to someone who's thinking, “Okay, I love all of this—I need to start shifting my organization”?Sangram Vajre (28:09.082)First, you have to really understand the definition of go-to-market. It's a transformational process—not a one-and-done. It's not something you define at an offsite and then forget. It's not owned by pirates. It's iterative. It happens every day.Second, the CEO has to be fully bought in. If they don't own it, GTM will run them. If you're a CEO and you feel overwhelmed, that's usually why—you're running go-to-market, not owning it.Third, business transformation happens in teams. If you try to build a GTM strategy in a silo—as a marketer, for example—it will fail. The best strategies never see the light of day because the team isn't behind them. In GTM, alignment matters more than being right.Kerry Curran, RBMA (29:27.982)Excellent. I love this so much. Thank you! How can people find you and learn more about the GTM Partners certification and your book?Sangram Vajre (29:37.476)You can go to gtmpartners.com to get the certification. Thousands of people are going through it, and we're constantly adding new content. We're about to launch Go-To-Market University to add even more courses.We also created the MOVE Book Companion, because we're actually selling more books now than when it first came out three years ago—which is crazy!Then there's GTM Monday, our research newsletter that 175,000 people read every week. Our goal is to keep building new frameworks and sharing what's possible. Things are changing so fast—AI, GTM tech, everything. But first principles still apply. That's why frameworks matter more than ever.You can't just ask ChatGPT to “give me a go-to-market strategy” and expect it to work. It might give you something beautifully written, but it won't help you make money. You need frameworks, team alignment, and process discipline.And I post about this every day on LinkedIn—so follow me there too!Kerry Curran, RBMA (30:54.988)Excellent. Well, thank you so much. This has been a great conversation, and I highly recommend the book and the certification to everyone. We'll include all the links in the show notes.Thank you, Sangram, for joining us today!Sangram Vajre (31:09.284)Kerry, you're a fantastic host. Thank you for having me.Kerry Curran, RBMA (31:11.854)Thank you very much.Thanks for tuning in to Revenue Boost: A Marketing Podcast. I hope today's conversation sparked some new ideas and challenged the way you think about how your organization approaches go-to-market and revenue growth strategy. If you're serious about turning marketing into a true revenue driver, this is just the beginning. We've got more insightful conversations, expert guests, and actionable strategies coming your way—so search for us in your favorite podcast directory and hit subscribe.And hey, if this episode brought you value, please share it with a colleague or leave a quick review. It helps more revenue-minded leaders like you find our show. Until next time, I'm Kerry Curran—helping you connect marketing to growth, one episode at a time. See you soon.

Would you like access to our advanced agency training for FREE? https://www.agencymastery360.com/training Have you ever turned to freelancers to grow your agency's capabilities? What about using fractional support once you realized you couldn't do everything as the founder and face of the agency? What if the key to sustainable growth isn't building a massive in-house team, but leveraging the right fractional support at the right time? Today's guests are two agency owners who turned a modest freelance setup into a thriving multimillion-dollar business—largely through referrals and the strength of their personal networks. They share how a flexible team of contractors became their secret weapon, offering the agility to scale without the overhead of a traditional agency structure. Tune in to learn how former competitors found a way to build a successful collaboration and why fractional support was a big part of their operation from the start. Sydney Mulligan and Lauren Aquilino are the co-founders of Emmie Collective, a for-hire network of elite independent & freelance marketing, sales, and revops consultants with big tech energy. They share their journey of entrepreneurship, reflect on their backgrounds as former competitors in the marketing industry, and the bond that brought them together. Sydney also recounts her experience of being laid off while on maternity leave, which sparked the idea for Emmie Collective while Lauren discusses her transition from freelancing to building a business as demand for her services grew. In this episode, we'll discuss: Why the fractional model was the best option for bootstrapping an agency. When should the agency owners stop being the face of the agency? External funding vs. control in agency growth.  Subscribe Apple | Spotify | iHeart Radio Sponsors and Resources E2M Solutions: Today's episode of the Smart Agency Masterclass is sponsored by E2M Solutions, a web design, and development agency that has provided white-label services for the past 10 years to agencies all over the world. Check out e2msolutions.com/smartagency and get 10% off for the first three months of service. When Competitors Become Co-Founders Before forming their partnership, Sydney and Lauren worked at competing agencies while also participating in Marketo's customer champion program. Their paths diverged when both eventually left their respective agencies—Lauren to pursue freelance work, initially planning for just 10 hours weekly during summer to rest after quitting her job. However, her freelance business quickly expanded beyond expectations, growing to 20 hours weekly and requiring additional contractor support. Meanwhile, Sydney had taken an in-house position but faced an unexpected setback when she was laid off during her maternity leave. As she navigated the job interview process, she began conversations with Lauren, who was contemplating transforming her freelance operation into a formal business. Lauren recognized Sydney as a valuable potential partner—in fact, the only person she would consider building a business with. After discussing their business vision, they decided it was time to meet face-to-face. Their first in-person meeting in Florida became what they jokingly refer to as their "speed dating" session. During this three-day encounter, they exchanged ideas and developed business plans while Sydney cared for her six-week-old baby. The meeting proved decisive—by the time they both landed back home, they had confirmed their mutual desire to build an agency together. Why the Fractional Model Is Best for Bootstraping an Agency Their participation in the customer champion program helped Sydney and Lauren establish strong reputations within a specialized niche market. With this foundation, they were able to launch their agency business with a strong base of referral clients. One unexpected advantage they discovered was the relative ease of attracting consultants eager to work with their new agency. Anticipating potential staffing challenges typical for startups, they had proactively designed their business model around freelancers and contractors. This strategy allowed them to sidestep the common industry pressure of requiring employees to meet specific billable hour quotas. Instead, freelancers had the flexibility to determine their own workload and schedules. To this day they continue to work with consultants, firmly believing that fractional support provides clients with optimal access to senior specialized expertise. By leveraging fractional experts, their agency effectively addresses specific client challenges, enhances operational efficiency, and frees internal resources to focus on strategic growth initiatives. When Should the Founders Stop Being the Face of the Agency? Balancing Growth and Client Relationships Sydney and Lauren's agency growth eventually confronted them with the challenge of hitting the limit on what they could do by themselves. With the agency growing, more and more clients and consultants coming in, and traveling for events, it just got to be too much. Sydney recalls a particularly stressful period when she felt overwhelmed, unable to keep track of their growing client base and the myriad responsibilities that came with it. They recognized they could no longer manage everything alone. When an agency owner clings to control it causes issues with bottlenecking, even become an operational issue and their agency's biggest profit leak. For Sydney and Lauren, was time for a change and the first crucial step was hiring a fractional account manager to ensure there was someone else keeping track of every client. This not only alleviated some of the burdens on Sydney but also allowed them to focus on strategic growth rather than getting bogged down in day-to-day operations. It's not an easy shift to make, and quite tricky for Sydney and Lauren, who built the agency on the back of their own networks and therefore are still the face of it. They continue to wrestle with how much to pull back, risking that clients feel they no longer interact with them. For those facing similar challenges, it's worth noting that even prominent agency leaders like Gary Vaynerchuk maintain their status as organizational figureheads while having minimal involvement in daily operations. This successful transition typically requires thoroughly training team members in core agency values to ensure consistent decision-making and actively promoting team capabilities to clients—emphasizing that a dedicated team provides superior service compared to founder-only support. External Funding vs. Control in Agency Growth After bootstrapping their business, Sydney and Lauren now face the question of whether or not to take on funding to continue to scale. While they recognize the potential advantages that investment capital could bring—accelerated expansion and resources for recruiting top talent—they also remain cautious about the significant tradeoffs involved. Most of all, they worry about the fundamental shift from being independent business owners to essentially working for investors since "once you start raising money, you'll always be raising money"—with a continuous cycle of accountability to external stakeholders. For the time being, they continue to prioritize maintaining complete control over their growth trajectory, preferring the stability and autonomy of their current approach even if it means potentially slower expansion. Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset? Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our Agency Blueprint. Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success.

Digital Impact and the Human Element of AI-Driven Transformation: Insights from Steve Lucas

Steve Lucas discusses his book “Digital Impact” and strategies to unlock the true potential of AI. Steve is the CEO of Boomi, a global software company specializing in intelligent integration and automation. He is former CEO at Marketo and has held leadership positions at Adobe, SAP, and Salesforce. Listen for three action items you can use today. Host, Kevin Craine Want to be a guest? DigitalTransformationPodcast.net/guest Want to be a sponsor? DigitalTransformationPodcast.net/sponsor

T.K. Kader, founder of Unstoppable and the original founder of ToutApp (acquired by Marketo), is today's guest. We explore why outbound is far from dead, what the greatest GTM leaders have in common, and TK's three pillars of go-to-market success. Listen in to hear TK's learnings and takes from scaling ToutApp, working at Marketo during its turnaround, and now coaching over 500 founders on GTM strategy.In this episode, you'll learn:The three pillars of GTM success - and why most teams get them wrongHow to leverage AI to make outbound work better than everWhy referrals are the most underutilized GTM channelHow to align product, sales, and marketing for predictable revenue growthFor more from ZI Labs, visit ⁠www.zoominfo.com/labs⁠ Ben on LinkedIn - www.linkedin.com/in/bensalzman Millie on LinkedIn - www.linkedin.com/in/milliebeetham

Would you like access to our advanced agency training for FREE? https://www.agencymastery360.com/training Have overwhelm or frustration ever made you want to sell your agency? When you're burned out, the grass might look greener — but one agency owner learned that it's not. Discover why he sold after just two years plus why the acquisition was dissolved and he grew his original business back to 5X within the next four years. Learn more about his reflections on why his initial burnout came to be, the reasons that partnership failed, and how he managed to rebuild his agency even stronger by surrounding himself with the right people. Alex Polamero is the founder of Ninestone Partners, an agency focused on the middle of the funnel. They build marketing and sales automation systems that help clients scale and effectively nurture prospects to closing. He discuss the evolution of his career, going from solopreneur to building and selling his agency and remaining as an equity partner. Alex also dives into his mindset and reasons behind his agency's sale and the events that led to him taking back ownership of its name and original clients. In this episode, we'll discuss: Selling as a way out of the burnout trap. Cashflow issues and not making payroll.  Lessons after buying back his agency. Subscribe Apple | Spotify | iHeart Radio Sponsors and Resources E2M Solutions: Today's episode of the Smart Agency Masterclass is sponsored by E2M Solutions, a web design, and development agency that has provided white-label services for the past 10 years to agencies all over the world. Check out e2msolutions.com/smartagency and get 10% off for the first three months of service. Building an Agency by Filling the Gap Alex has over 20 years of experience working with CRMs, beginning as an Oracle superuser with an extensive network of contacts and later becoming a Marketo-certified expert managing marketing for a billion-dollar real estate firm. Seven years ago, he took the leap to start his own venture, Ninestone Partners. When he first launched his business, Alex viewed other agencies as competitors, seeing them as rivals in areas like website development and paid advertising. However, years of experience shifted his perspective. Today, his agency operates as a collaborator, working alongside other agencies and specializing in the middle of the funnel—where their expertise truly shines. According to Alex, most people don't know the nuances of every automation system, which one to use in each industry and how to help businesses grow quickly. This knowledge gap is where his team excels, helping businesses grow quickly by leveraging the right automation strategies tailored to their needs. Escaping Burnout by Selling the Agency Two years after starting his agency, Alex had two full-time employees and several contractors, even managing automated marketing solutions for a larger 25-person agency. Despite this success, he found himself overwhelmed and burned out. Looking back, he realizes the root of his struggles was that he hadn't chosen between being a solopreneur—taking most of the profits to fund his lifestyle—or committing to being a true business owner. Straddling both worlds, he continued accepting new projects for quick profits without building the necessary team infrastructure. His fear of hiring and potential failure led to increasingly unsustainable workweeks filled with late nights and weekends. This approach inevitably led to stagnation. Alex faced a classic dilemma: unable to handle more clients alone, yet afraid to bring on additional help. Like many inexperienced business owners, he had initially prioritized money over time and it took years before he learned to value time with his employees, family, and himself. His mindset reflected a common misconception among agency owners: that leadership means outworking everyone else and that constant busyness equates to productivity. Exhausted from this unsustainable approach, Alex ultimately sold his agency in a deal keeping him on as an equity partner. The arrangement promised relief from the administrative and management duties he disliked, allowing him to focus solely on sales. Post-Sale Breakdown: Cashflow Issues and Not Making Payroll The first weeks post-sale were great for Alex. He finally had time for himself and even went on a skiing trip with some friends. However, eight months later, the reality of balancing multiple roles began to take its toll. Juggling his sales responsibilities, equity partnership duties, and technical operations proved far more challenging than he had anticipated. Around this time, Alex and his partners discovered a critical issue: their invoicing process had completely broken down, resulting in six months of unpaid invoices, an oversight that left them without the funds to pay their 25 employees. With no money to cover payroll, Alex was forced to take out a high-interest loan, a decision that weighed heavily on him and his family. It became clear that not everything was going as well as he'd initially hoped. After this, Alex and the other partners reached the conclusion that there were some aspects of running the business in which they just didn't agree. Why Clarity is Key: Growing 5x in Four Years The heart-to-heart with his partners culminated in an offer to buy back his agency. Under the terms of the deal, his partners would retain his equity and any new clients acquired during that year, while Alex regained his previous clients and rights to the Ninestone name. Though he restarted with only half the business he had before the partnership, Alex viewed it as a fresh start. Four years later, his agency had grown to five times its size at the time of the split. This period was a lesson in humility and forced Alex to confront the reality of his situation and acknowledge that he didn't have all the answers. It also underscored the inherent uncertainty of the entrepreneurial journey—a reality he had to embrace rather than resist. Furthermore, the experience taught Alex an important lesson about having clarity as you start to build your business. Do you want to be a consultant working only with contractors and never having to build a team? Or do you want to build a business that you can sell in the future? The pathway is different; the mentality and systems are different for each approach. Once he committed to a clear direction, he Alex understood he needed to surround himself with experts. The founder does not need to do it all and be a lone wolf. Instead, being part of a pack brought him much more joy and helped him grow much more than he'd expected. Embracing Collaboration and Uncertainty to Unlock Your Agency's Potential What's the biggest bottleneck holding your agency back at the moment? As Alex learned with experience, he had been the bottleneck stifling his agency's growth by trying to juggle multiple responsibilities without a clear delineation. During his second run with the agency, he knew that as the visionary leader, he needed an integrator that would handle operations, freeing him up to focus on sales. By collaborating with others and delegating tasks according to expertise, owners can focus on their strengths, ultimately leading to a more efficient and successful operation. Basically, Alex figured out where he wanted to go and who he needed to hire to get there. Ultimately, the journey of building a business is not just about reaching a destination but about embracing the process as an ongoing experiment. Adopting a mindset that values experimentation and collaboration can lead to both personal fulfillment and professional success. Entrepreneurship is inherently uncertain. However by acknowledging this, you can cultivate a culture of innovation within your team, encouraging creative problem-solving and the exploration of new ideas. Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset? Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our Agency Blueprint. Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success.