Podcasts about Marketo

Welcome back to the Ultimate Guide to Partnering® Podcast. AI agents are your next customers. Subscribe to our Newsletter: https://theultimatepartner.com/ebook-subscribe/ Check Out UPX:https://theultimatepartner.com/experience/ https://youtu.be/vEdq8rpBM3I In this data-rich keynote, Jay McBain deconstructs the tectonic shifts reshaping the $5.3 trillion global technology industry, arguing that we are entering a new 20-year cycle where traditional direct sales models are obsolete. McBain explains why 96% of the industry is now surrounded by partners and how successful companies must pivot from “flywheels and theory” to a granular strategy focused on the seven specific partners present in every deal. From the explosion of agentic AI and the $163 billion marketplace revolution to the specific mechanics of multiplier economics, this discussion provides a roadmap for navigating the “decade of the ecosystem” where influence, trust, and integration—not just product—determine winners and losers. Key Takeaways Half of today's Fortune 500 companies will likely vanish in the next 20 years due to the shift toward AI and ecosystem-led models. Every B2B deal now involves an average of seven trusted partners who influence the decision before a vendor even knows a deal exists. Microsoft has outpaced AWS growth for 26 consecutive quarters largely because of a superior partner-led geographic strategy. Marketplaces are projected to grow to $163 billion by 2030, with nearly 60% of deals involving partner funding or private offers. The “Multiplier Effect” is the new ROI, where partners can make up to $8.45 for every dollar of vendor product sold. Future dominance relies on five key pillars: Platform, Service Partnerships, Channel Partnerships, Alliances, and Go-to-Market orchestration. If you're ready to lead through change, elevate your business, and achieve extraordinary outcomes through the power of partnership—this is your community. At Ultimate Partner® we want leaders like you to join us in the Ultimate Partner Experience – where transformation begins. Keywords: Jay McBain, Canalys, partner ecosystem, channel chief, agentic AI, marketplace growth, multiplier economics, B2B sales trends, tech industry forecast, service partnerships, strategic alliances, Microsoft vs AWS, distribution transformation, managed services growth, SaaS platforms, customer journey mapping, 28 moments of truth, future of reselling, technology spending 2025, ecosystem orchestration, partner multipliers. T Transcript: Jay McBain WORKFILE FOR TRANSCRIPT [00:00:00] Vince Menzione: Just up from, did you Puerto Rico last night? Puerto Rico, yes. Puerto Rico. He dodged the hurricane. Um, you all know him. Uh, let him introduce himself for those of you who don’t, but just thrilled to have on the stage, again, somebody who knows more about what’s going on in, in the, and has the pulse on this industry probably than just about anybody I know personally. [00:00:21] Vince Menzione: J Jay McBain. Jay, great to see you my friend. Alright, thank you. We have to come all the way. We live, we live uh, about 20 minutes from each other. We have to come all the way to Reston, Virginia to see each other, right? That’s right. Very good. Well, uh, that’s all over to you, sir. Thank you. [00:00:35] Jay McBain: Alright, well thank you so much. [00:00:36] Jay McBain: I went from 85 degrees yesterday to 45 today, but I was able to dodge that, uh, that hurricane, uh, that we kind of had to fly through the northern edge of, uh, wanna talk today about our industry, about the ultimate partner. I’m gonna try to frame up the ultimate partner as I walk through the data and the latest research that, uh, that we’ve been doing in the market. [00:00:56] Jay McBain: But I wanted to start here ’cause our industry moves in 20 year cycles, and if you look at the Fortune 500 and dial back 20 years from today, 52% of them no longer exist. As we step into the next 20 year AI era, half of the companies that we know and love today are not gonna exist. So we look at this, and by the way, if you’re not in the Fortune 500 and you don’t have deep pockets to buy your way outta problems, 71% of tech companies fail over the course of 10 years. [00:01:30] Jay McBain: Those are statistics from the US government. So I start to look at our industry and you know, you may look at the, you know, mainframe era from the sixties and seventies, mini computers, August the 12th, 1981, that first IBM, PC with Microsoft dos, version one, you know, triggered. A new 20 year era of client server. [00:01:51] Jay McBain: It was the time and I worked at IBM for 17 years, but there was a time where Bill Gates flew into Boca Raton, Florida and met with the IBM team and did that, you know, fancy licensing agreement. But after, you know, 20 years of being the most valuable company in the world and 13 years of antitrust and getting broken up, almost like at and TIBM almost didn’t make payroll. [00:02:14] Jay McBain: 13 years after meeting Bill Gates. Yeah, that’s how quickly things change in these eras. In 1999, a small company outta San Francisco called salesforce.com got its start. About 10 years later, Jeff Bezos asked a question in a boardroom, could we rent out our excess capacity and would other companies buy it? [00:02:35] Jay McBain: Which, you know, most people in the room laughed at ’em at the time. But it created a 20 year cloud era when our friends, our neighbors, our family. Saw Chachi PT for the first time in March of 2023. They saw the deep fakes, they saw the poetry, they saw the music. They came to us as tech people and said, did we just light up Skynet? [00:02:58] Jay McBain: And that consumer trend has triggered this next 20 years. I could walk through the richest people in the world through those trends. I could walk through the most valuable companies. It all aligns. ’cause by the way, Apple’s no longer at the top. Nvidia is at the top, Microsoft. Second, things change really quickly. [00:03:17] Jay McBain: So in that course of time, you start to look at our industry and as people are talking about a six and a half or $7 trillion build out of ai, that’s open AI and Microsoft numbers, that is bigger than our industry that’s taken over 50 years to build. This year, we’re gonna finish the year at $5.3 trillion. [00:03:36] Jay McBain: That’s from the smallest flower shop to the biggest bank. Biggest governments that Caresoft would, uh, serve biggest customer in the world is actually the federal government of the us. But you look at this pie chart and you look at the changes that we’re gonna go through over the next 20 years, there’s about a trillion dollars in hardware. [00:03:54] Jay McBain: There’s about a trillion dollars in software. If you look forward through all of the merging trends, quantum computing, humanoid robots, all the things that are coming that dollar to dollar software to hardware will continue to exist all the way through. We see services making up almost two thirds of this pie. [00:04:13] Jay McBain: Yesterday I was in a telco conference with at and t and Verizon and T-Mobile and some of the biggest wireless players and IT services, which happen to be growing faster than products. At the moment, there is more work to be done wrapping around the deal than the actual products that the customer is buying. [00:04:32] Jay McBain: So in an industry that’s growing at 7%. On top of the world economy that’s grown at 2.2. This is the fastest growing industry, and it will be at least for the next 10 years, if not 2070 0.1% of this entire $5 trillion gets transacted through partners. While what we’re talking to today about the ultimate partner, 96% of this industry is surrounded by partners in one way or another. [00:05:01] Jay McBain: They’re there before the deal. They’re there at the deal. They’re there after the deal. Two thirds of our industry is now subscription consumption based. So every 30 days forever, and a customer for life becomes everything. So if every deal in medium, mid-market, and higher has seven partners, according to McKinsey, who are those seven people trying to get into the deal? [00:05:25] Jay McBain: While there’s millions of companies that have come into tech over the last 10 to 20 years. Digital agencies, accountants, legal firms, everybody’s come in. The 250,000 SaaS companies, a million emerging tech companies, there’s a big fight to be one of those seven trusted people at the table. So millions of companies and tens of millions of people our competing for these slots. [00:05:49] Jay McBain: So one of the pieces of research I’m most proud of, uh, in my analyst career is this. And this took over two years to build. It’s a lot of logos. Not this PowerPoint slide, but the actual data. Thousands of people hours. Because guess what? When you look at partners from the top down, the top 1000 partners, by capability and capacity, not by resale. [00:06:15] Jay McBain: It’s not a ranking of CDW and insight and resale numbers. It is the surrounding. Consulting, design, architecture, implementations, integrations, managed services, all the pieces that’s gonna make the next 20 years run. So when you start to look at this, 98% of these companies are private, so very difficult to get to those numbers and, uh, a ton of research and help from AI and other things to get this. [00:06:41] Jay McBain: But this is it. And if you look at this list, there’s a thousand logos out of the million companies. There’s a thousand logos that drive two thirds of all tech services in the world. $1.07 trillion gets delivered by a thousand companies, but here’s where it gets fun. Those companies in the middle, in blue, the 30 of them deliver more tech services than the next 970. [00:07:08] Jay McBain: Combined the 970 combined in white deliver more tech services. Then the next million combined. So if you think we live in an 80 20 rule or maybe a 99, a 95 5 rule, or a 99 1 rule, we actually live in a 99.9 0.1 parallel principle. These companies spread around the world evenly split across the uh, different regions. [00:07:35] Jay McBain: South Africa, Latin America, they’re all over. They split. They split among types. All of the Venn diagram I just showed from GSIs to VARs to MSPs, to agencies and other types of companies. But this is a really rich list and it’s public. So every company in the world now, if you’re looking at Transactable data, if you’re looking at quantifiable data that you can go put your revenue numbers against, it represents 70 to 80% of every company in this room’s Tam. [00:08:08] Jay McBain: In one piece of research. So what do you do below that? How do you cover a million companies that you can’t afford to put a channel account manager? You can’t afford to write programs directly for well after the top down analysis and all the wallet share and you know exactly where the lowest hanging fruit is for most of your tam. [00:08:28] Jay McBain: The available markets. The obtainable markets. You gotta start from the community level grassroots up. So you need to ask the question for the million companies and the maybe a hundred thousand companies out there, partner companies that are surrounding your customer. These are the seven partners that surround your customer. [00:08:48] Jay McBain: What do they read, where do they go, and who do they follow? Interestingly enough, our industry globally equates to only a thousand watering holes, a thousand companies at the top, a thousand places at the bottom. 35% of this audience we’re talking. Millions of people here love events and there’s 352 of them like this one that they love to go to. [00:09:13] Jay McBain: They love the hallway chats, they love the hotel lobby bar, you know, in a time reminded by the pandemic. They love to be in person. It’s the number one way they’re influenced. So if you don’t have a solid event strategy and you don’t have a community team out giving out socks every week, your competitors might beat you. [00:09:31] Jay McBain: 12% of this audience loves podcasts. It’s the Joe Rogan effect of our industry. And while you know, you may not think the 121 podcasts out there are important, well, you’re missing 12% of your audience. It’s over a million people. If you’re not on a weekly podcast in one of these podcasts in the world, there’s still people that read one of the 106 magazines in the world. [00:09:55] Jay McBain: There are people that love peer groups, associations, they wanna be part of this. There’s 15 different ways people are influenced. And a solid grassroots strategy is how you make this happen. In the last 10 years, we’ve created a number of billionaires. Bottom up. They never had to go talk to la large enterprise. [00:10:15] Jay McBain: They never had to go build out a mid-market strategy. They just went and give away socks and new community marketing. And this has created, I could rip through a bunch of names that became unicorns just in the last couple of years, bottoms up. You go back to your board walking into next year, top down, bottom up. [00:10:34] Jay McBain: You’ve covered a hundred percent of your tam, and now you’ve covered it with names, faces, and places. You haven’t covered it with a flywheel or a theory. And for 44 years, we have gone to our board every fourth quarter with flywheels and theory. Trust me, partners are important. The channel is key to us. [00:10:57] Jay McBain: Well, let’s talk at the point of this granularity, and now we’re getting supported by technology 261 entrepreneurs. Many of them in the room actually here that are driving this ability to succeed with seven partners in every deal to exchange data to be able to exchange telemetry of these prospects to be able to see twice or three times in terms of pipeline of your target addressable market. [00:11:26] Jay McBain: All these ai, um, technologies, agentic technologies are coming into this. It’s all about data. It’s all about quantifiable names, faces, and places. Now none of us should be walking around with flywheels, so let’s flip the flywheels. No. Uh, so we also look at, and I sold PCs for 17 years and that was in the high times of 40% margins for partners. [00:11:55] Jay McBain: But one interesting thing when you study the p and l for broad base of partners around the world, it’s changed pretty significantly in this last 20 year era. What the cloud era did is dropped hardware from what used to be 84% plus the break fix and things that wrap around it of the p and l to now 16% of every partner in the world. [00:12:16] Jay McBain: 84% of their p and l is now software and services. And if you look at profitability, it’s worse. It’s actually 87% is profitability wise. They’ve completely shifted in terms of where they go. Now we look at other parts of our market. I could go through every part of the pie of the slide, but we’re watching each of the companies, and if you can see here, this is what we want to talk about in terms of ultimate partner. [00:12:43] Jay McBain: Microsoft has outgrown AWS for 26 straight quarters. They don’t have a better product. They don’t have a better price, they don’t have better promotion. It’s all place. And I’ll explain why you guess here in the light green line. Exactly. The day that Google went a hundred percent all in partner, every deal, even if a deal didn’t have a partner, one of the 4% of deals that didn’t have a partner, they injected a partner. [00:13:09] Jay McBain: You can see on the left side exactly where they did it. They got to the point of a hundred percent partner driven. Rebuilt their programs, rebuilt their marketplace. Their marketplace is actually larger than Microsoft’s, and they grew faster than Microsoft. A couple of those quarters. It is a partner driven future, and now I have Oracle, which I just walked by as I walked from the hotel. [00:13:31] Jay McBain: Oracle with their RPOs will start to join. Maybe the list of three hyperscalers becomes the list of four in future slides, but that’s a growth slide. Market share is different. AWS early and commanding lead. And it plays out, uh, plays out this way. But we’re at an interesting moment and I stood up six years ago talking about the decade of the ecosystem after we went through a decade of sales starting in 1999 when we all thought we were born to be salespeople. [00:14:02] Jay McBain: We managed territories with our gut. The sales tech stack would have it different, that sales was a science, and we ended the decade 2009, looking at sales very differently in 2009. I remember being at cocktail parties where CMOs would be joking around that 50% of their marketing dollars were wasted. They just didn’t know which 50%. [00:14:23] Jay McBain: And I’ll tell you, that was really funny. In 2009 till every 58-year-old CMO got replaced by a 38-year-old growth hacker who walked in with 15,348 SaaS companies in their MarTech and ad tech stack to solve the problem, every nickel of marketing by 2019 was tracked. Marketo, Eloqua, Pardot, HubSpot, driving this industry. [00:14:50] Jay McBain: Now, we stood up and said the 28 moments that come before a sale are pretty much all partner driven. In the best case scenario, a vendor might see four of the moments. They might come to your website, maybe they read an ebook, maybe they have a salesperson or a demo that comes in. That’s four outta 28 moments. [00:15:10] Jay McBain: The other 24 are done by partners. Yeah, in the worst case scenario and the majority scenario, you don’t see any of the moments. All 28 happen and you lose a deal without knowing there ever was a deal. So this is it. We need to partner in these moments and we need to inject partners into sales and marketing, like no time before, and this was the time to do it. [00:15:33] Jay McBain: And we got some feedback in the Salesforce state of sales report, which doesn’t involve any partnerships or, or. Channel Chiefs or anything else. This is 5,500 of the biggest CROs in the world that obviously use Salesforce. 89% of salespeople today use partners every day. For the 11% who don’t, 58% plan two within a year. [00:15:57] Jay McBain: If you add those two numbers together, that’s magically the 96% number. They recognize that every deal has partners in it. In 2024, last year, half of the salespeople in the world, every industry, every country. Miss their numbers. For the minority who made their numbers, 84 point percent pointed to partners as the reason why they made their numbers. [00:16:21] Jay McBain: It was the cheat code for sales, so that modern salesperson that knows how to orchestrate a deal, orchestrate the 28 moments with the seven partners and get to that final spot is the winning formula. HubSpot’s number in separate research was 84% in marketing. So we’re starting to see partners in here. We don’t have to shout from the mountaintops. [00:16:44] Jay McBain: These communities like ultimate Partner are working and we’re getting this to the highest levels in the board. And I’ll say that, you know, when 20 years from now half of the companies we know and love fail after we’re done writing the book and blaming the CEO for inventing the thing that ended up killing them, blaming the board for fiduciary responsibility and letting it happen. [00:17:06] Jay McBain: What are the other chapters of the book? And I think it’s all in one slide. We are in this platform economy and the. [00:17:31] Jay McBain: So your battery’s fine. Check, check, check, check. Alright, I’ll, I’ll just hold this in case, but the companies that execute on all five of these areas, well. Not only today become the trillion dollar valued companies, but they become the companies of tomorrow. These will be the fastest growing companies at every level. [00:17:50] Jay McBain: Not only running a platform business, but participating in other platforms. So this is how it breaks out, and there are people at very senior levels, at very big companies that have this now posted in the office of the CEO winning on integrations is everything. We just went through a demographic shift this year where 51% of our buyers are born after 1982. [00:18:15] Jay McBain: Millennials are the number one buyer of the $5 trillion. Their number one buying criteria is not service. Support your price, your brand reputation, it’s integrations. The buy a product, 80% is good as the next one if it works better in their environment. 79% of us won’t buy a car unless it has CarPlay or Android Auto. [00:18:34] Jay McBain: This is an integration world. The company with the most integrations win. Second, there are seven partners that surround the customer. Highly trusted partners. We’re talking, coaching the customer’s, kids soccer team, having a cottage together up at the lake. You know, best men, bate of honors at weddings type of relationships. [00:18:57] Jay McBain: You can’t maybe have all seven, but how does Microsoft beat AWS? They might have had two, three, or four of them saying nice things about them instead of the competition. Winning in service partnerships and channel partnerships changes by category. If you’re selling MarTech, only 10% of it today is resold, so you build more on service partnerships. [00:19:18] Jay McBain: If you’re in cybersecurity today, 91.6% of it is resold. Transacted through partners. So you build a lot of channel partnerships, plus the service partnerships, whatever the mix is in your category, you have to have two or three of those seven people. Saying nice things about you at every stage of the customer journey. [00:19:38] Jay McBain: Now move over to alliances. We have already built the platforms at the hyperscale level. We’ve built the platforms within SaaS, Salesforce, ServiceNow, Workday, Marketo, NetSuite, HubSpot. Every buyer has a set of platforms that they buy. We’ve now built them in cybersecurity this year out of 6,500 as high as cyber companies, the top five are starting to separate. [00:20:02] Jay McBain: We built it in distribution, which I’ll show in a minute. We’re building it in Telco. This is a platform economy and alliances win and you have alliances with your competitors ’cause you compete in the morning, but you’re best friends by the afternoon. Winning in other platforms is just as important as driving your own. [00:20:20] Jay McBain: And probably the most important part of this is go to market. That sales, that marketing, the 28 moments, the every 30 days forever become all a partner strategy. So there’s still CEOs out there that believe platform is a UI or UX on a bunch of disparate products and things you’ve acquired. There’s still CFOs out there that Think platform is a pricing model, a bundle model of just getting everything under one, you know, subscription price or consumption price. [00:20:51] Jay McBain: And it’s not, platforms are synonymous with partnerships. This is the way forward and there’s no conversation around ai. That doesn’t involve Nvidia over there, an open AI over here and a hyperscaler over there and a SaaS company over here. The seven layer stack wins every single time, and the companies that get this will be the ones that survive this cycle. [00:21:16] Jay McBain: Now, flipping over to marketplaces. So we had written research that, um, about five years ago that marketplaces were going to grow at 82% compounded. Yeah, probably one of the most accurate predictions we ever made, because it happened, we, we predicted that, uh, we were gonna get up to about $85 billion. Well, now we’ve extended that to 2030, so we’re gonna get up to $163 billion, and the thing that we’re watching is in green. [00:21:46] Jay McBain: If 96% of these deals are partner assisted in some way, how is the economics of partnering going to work? We predicted that 50% of deals by 2027. Would be partner funded in some way. Private offers multi-partner offers distributor sellers of record, and now that extends to 59% by 2030, the most senior leader of the biggest marketplace AWS, just said to us they’re gonna probably make these numbers on their own. [00:22:14] Jay McBain: And he asked what their two competitors are doing. So he’s telling us that we under called this. Now when you look at each of the press releases, and this is the AWS Billion Dollar Club. Every one of the companies on the left have issued a press release that they’re in the billion dollar club. Some of them are in the multi-billions, but I want you to double click on this press release. [00:22:35] Jay McBain: I’m quoted in here somewhere, but as CrowdStrike is building the marketplace at 91% compounded, they’re almost doubling their revenue every single year. They’re growing the partner funding, in this case, distributor funding by 3548%. Almost triple digit growth in marketplace is translating into almost quadruple digit growth in funding. [00:23:01] Jay McBain: And you see that over and over again as, as Splunk hit three, uh, billion dollars. The same. Salesforce hit $2 billion on AWS in Ulti, 18 months. They joined in October 20, 23, and 18 months later, they’re already at $2 billion. But now you’re seeing at Salesforce, which by the way. Grew up to $40 billion in revenue direct, almost not a nickel in resell. [00:23:28] Jay McBain: Made it really difficult for VARs and managed service providers to work with Salesforce because they couldn’t understand how to add services to something they didn’t book the revenue for. While $40 billion companies now seeing 70% of their deals come through partners. So this is just the world that we’re in. [00:23:44] Jay McBain: It doesn’t matter who you are and what industry you’re in, this takes place. But now we’re starting to see for the first time. Partners join the billion dollar club. So you wonder about partnering and all this funding and everything that’s working through Now you’re seeing press releases and companies that are redoing their LinkedIn branding about joining this illustrious club without a product to sell and all the services that wrap around it. [00:24:10] Jay McBain: So the opening session on Microsoft was interesting because there’s been a number of changes that Microsoft has done just in the last 30 days. One is they cut distribution by two thirds going from 180 distributors to 62. They cut out any small partner lower than a thousand dollars, and that doesn’t sound like a lot, but that’s over a hundred thousand partners that get deed tightening the long tail. [00:24:38] Jay McBain: They we’re the first to really put a global point system in place three years ago. They went to the new commerce experience. If you remember, all kinds of changes being led by. The biggest company for the channel. And so when we’re studying marketplaces, we’re not just studying the three hyperscalers, we’re studying what TD Cynic is doing with Stream One Ingram’s doing with Advant Advantage Aerosphere. [00:25:01] Jay McBain: Also, we’re watching what PAX eight, who by the way, is the 365 bestseller for Microsoft in the world. They are the cybersecurity leader for Microsoft in the world and the copilot. Leader in the world for Microsoft and Partner of the Year for Microsoft. So we’re watching what the cloud platforms are doing, watching what the Telco are doing, which is 25 cents out of every dollar, if you remember that pie chart, watching what the biggest resellers are converting themselves into. [00:25:30] Jay McBain: Vince just mentioned, you know, SHI in the changes there watching the managed services market and the leaders there, what they’re doing in terms of how this industry’s moving forward. By the way, managed services at $608 billion this year. Is one and a half times larger than the SaaS industry overall. [00:25:48] Jay McBain: It’s also one and a half times larger than all the hyperscalers combined. Oracle, Alibaba, IBM, all the way down. This is a massive market and it makes up 15 to 20 cents of every dollar the customer spend. We’re watching that industry hit a trillion dollars by the end of the decade, and we’re watching 150 different marketplace development platforms, the distribution of our industry, which today is 70.1% indirect. [00:26:13] Jay McBain: We’re starting to see that number, uh, solidify in terms of marketplaces as well. Watching distributors go from that linear warehouse in a bank to this orchestration model, watching some of the biggest players as the world comes around, platforms, it tightens around the place. So Caresoft, uh, from from here is the sixth biggest distributor in the world. [00:26:40] Jay McBain: Just shows you how big the. You know, biggest client in the world is that they serve. But understand that we’re publishing the distributor 500 list, but it’ll be the same thing. That little group in blue in the middle today, you know, drives almost two thirds of the market. So what happens in all this next stage in terms of where the dollars change hands. [00:27:07] Jay McBain: And the economics of partnering themselves are going through the most radical shift that we’ve seen ever. So back to the nineties, and, and for those of you that have been channel chiefs and running programs, we went to work every day. You know, everything’s on fire. We’re trying to check hundred boxes, trying to make our program 10% better than our competitors. [00:27:30] Jay McBain: Hey, we gotta fix our deal registration program today, and our incentives are outta whack or training programs or. You know, not where they need to be. Our certification, you know, this was the life of, uh, of a channel chief. Everybody thought we were just out drinking in the Caribbean with our best partners, but we were under the weight of this. [00:27:49] Jay McBain: But something interesting has happened is that we turned around and put the customer at the middle of our programs to say that those 28 moments in green before the sale are really, really important. And the seven partners who participate are really important. Understanding. The customer’s gonna buy a seven layer stack. [00:28:09] Jay McBain: They’re gonna buy it With these seven partners, the procurement stage is much different. The growth of marketplaces, the growth of direct in some of these areas, and then long term every 30 days forever in a managed service, implementations, integrations, how you upsell, cross-sell, enrich a deal changes. So how would you build a program that’s wrapped around the customer instead of the vendor? [00:28:35] Jay McBain: And we’re starting to hear our partners shout back to us. These are global surveys, big numbers, but over half of our partners, regardless of type, are selling consulting to their customer. Over half are designing architecting deals. A third of them are trying to be system integrators showing up at those implementation integration moments. [00:28:55] Jay McBain: Two thirds of them are doing managed services, but the shocking one here is 44% of our partners, regardless of type, are coding. They’re building agents and they’re out helping their customer at that level. So this is the modern partner that says, don’t typecast me. You may have thought of me in your program. [00:29:14] Jay McBain: You might have me slotted as a var. Well, I do 3.2 things, and if I don’t get access to those resources, if you don’t walk me to that room, I’m not gonna do them with you. You may have me as a managed service provider that’s only in the morning. By the afternoon I’m coding, and by the next morning I’m implementing and consulting. [00:29:33] Jay McBain: So again, a partner’s not a partner. That Venn diagram is a very loose one now, as every partner on there is doing 3.2 different business models. And again, they’re telling us for 43 years, they said, I want more leads this year it changed. For the first time, I want to be recognized and incentivized as more than just a cash register for you. [00:29:57] Jay McBain: I want you to recognize when I’m consulting, when I’m designing, when you’re winning deals, because of my wonderful services, by the way, we asked the follow up question, well, where should we spend our money with you? And they overwhelmingly say, in the consulting stage, you win and lose deals. Not at moment 28. [00:30:18] Jay McBain: We’re not buying a pack of gum at the gas station. This is a considered purchase. You win deals from moment 12 through 16 and I’m gonna show you a picture of that later, and they say, you better be spending your money there, or you’re not gonna win your fair share or more than your fair share of deals. [00:30:36] Jay McBain: The shocking thing about this is that Microsoft, when they went to the point system, lifted two thirds of all the money, tens of billions of dollars, and put it post-sale, and we were all scratching our heads going. Well, if the partners are asking for it there, and it seems like to beat your biggest competitors, you want to win there. [00:30:54] Jay McBain: Why would you spend the money on renewal? Well, they went to Wall Street and Goldman Sachs and the people who lift trillions of dollars of pension funds and said, if we renew deals at 108%, we become a cash machine for you. And we think that’s more valuable than a company coming out with a new cell phone in September and selling a lot of them by Christmas every year. [00:31:18] Jay McBain: The industry. And by the way, wall Street responded, Microsoft has been more valuable than Apple since. So we talk in this now multiplier language, and these are reports that we write, uh, at AMIA at canals. But talking about the partner opportunity in that customer cycle, the $6 and 40 cents you can make for every dollar of consumption, or the $7 and 5 cents you can make the $8 and 45 cents you can make. [00:31:46] Jay McBain: There’s over 24 companies speaking at this level now, and guess what? It’s not just cloud or software companies. Hardware companies are starting to speak in this language, and on January 25th, Cisco, you know, probably second to Microsoft in terms of trust built with the channel globally is moving to a full point system. [00:32:09] Jay McBain: So these are the changes that happen fast. But your QBR with your partners now less about drinking beers at the hotel lobby bar and talking dollar by dollar where these opportunities are. So if you’re doing 3.2 of these things, let’s build out a, uh, a play where you can make $3 for every dollar that we make. [00:32:28] Jay McBain: And you make that profitably. You make it in sticky, highly retained business, and that’s the model. ’cause if you make $3 for every dollar. We make, you’re gonna win Partner of the year, and if you win partner of the year, that piece of glass that you win on stage, by the time you get back to your table, you’re gonna have three offers to buy your business. [00:32:51] Jay McBain: CDW just bought a w. S’s Partner of the Year. Insight bought Google’s eight time partner of the year. Presidio bought ServiceNow’s, partner of the year over and over and over again. So I’m at Octane, I’m at CrowdStrike, I’m at all these events in Vegas every week. I’m watching these partners of the year. [00:33:05] Jay McBain: And I’m watching as the big resellers. I’m watching as the GSIs and the m and a folks are surrounding their table after, and they’re selling their businesses for SaaS level valuations. Not the one-to-one service valuation. They’re getting multiples because this is the new future of our industry. This is platform economics. [00:33:25] Jay McBain: This is winning and platforms for partners. Now, like Vince, I spent 20 minutes without talking about ai, but we have to talk about ai. So the next 20 years as it plays out is gonna play out in phases. And the first thing you know to get it out of the way. The first two years since that March of 23, has been underwhelming, to say the least. [00:33:47] Jay McBain: It’s been disappointing. All the companies that should have won the biggest in AI have been the most disappointing. It’s underperformed the s and p by a considerable amount in terms of where we are. And it goes back to this. We always overestimate the first two years, but we underestimate the first 10. [00:34:07] Jay McBain: If you wanna be the point in time person and go look at that 1983 PC or the 1995 internet or that 2007 iPhone or that whatever point in time you wanna look at, or if you want to talk about hallucinations or where chat chip ET version five is version, as opposed to where it’s going to be as it improves every six months here on in. [00:34:30] Jay McBain: But the fact of the matter is, it’s been a consumer trend. Nvidia got to be the most valuable company in the world. OpenAI was the first company to 2 billion users, uh, in that amount of speed. It’s the fastest growing product ever in history, and it’s been a consumer win this trillions of dollars to get it thrown around in the press releases. [00:34:49] Jay McBain: They’re going out every day, you know, open ai, signing up somebody new or Nvidia, investing in somebody new almost every single day in hundreds of billions of dollars. It is all happening really on the consumer side. So we got a little bit worried and said, is that 96% of surround gonna work in ag agentic ai? [00:35:10] Jay McBain: So we went and asked, and the good news is 88% of end customers are using partners to work through their ag agentic strategy. Even though they’re moving slow, they’re actually using partners. But what’s interesting from a partner perspective, and this is new research that out till 2030. This is the number one services opportunity in the entire tech or telco industry. [00:35:34] Jay McBain: 35.3% compounded growth ending at $267 billion in services. Companies are rebuilding themselves, building out practices, and getting on this train and figuring out which vendors they should hook their caboose to as those trains leave the station. But it kind of plays out like this. So in the next three to five years, we’re in this generative, moving into agentic phase. [00:36:01] Jay McBain: Every partner thinks internally first, the sales and marketing. They’re thinking about their invoicing and billing. They’re thinking about their service tickets. They’re thinking about creating a business that’s 10% better than their competitors, taking that knowledge into their customers and drive in business. [00:36:17] Jay McBain: But we understand that ag agentic AI, as it’s going to play out is not a product. A couple of years ago, we thought maybe a copilot or an agent force or something was going to be the product that everybody needed to buy, and it’s not a product, it’s gonna show up as a feature. So you go back in the history of feature ads and it’s gonna show up in software. [00:36:38] Jay McBain: So if you’re calling in SMB, maybe you’re calling on a restaurant. The restaurant isn’t gonna call OpenAI or call Microsoft or call Nvidia directly. They’re running their restaurant. And they may have chosen a platform like Toast Square, Clover, whatever iPads people are running around with, runs on a platform that does everything in their business, does staffing, does food ordering, works with Uber Eats, does everything end to end? [00:37:08] Jay McBain: They’re gonna wait to one of those platforms, dries out agent AI for them, and can run the restaurant more effectively, less human capital and more consistently, but they wait for the SaaS platform as you get larger. A hundred, 150 people. You have vice presidents. Each of those vice presidents already have a SaaS stack. [00:37:28] Jay McBain: I talked about Salesforce, ServiceNow, Workday, et cetera. They’ve already built that seven layer model and in some cases it’s 70 layers. But the fact is, is they’re gonna wait for those SaaS layers to deliver ag agentic to them. So this is how it’s gonna play out for the next three and a half, three to five years. [00:37:45] Jay McBain: And partners are realizing that many of them were slow to pick up SaaS ’cause they didn’t resell it. Well now to win in this next three to half, three to five years, you’re gonna have to play in this environment. When you start looking out from here, the next generation, you know, kind of five through 15 years gets interesting in more of a physical sense. [00:38:06] Jay McBain: Where I was yesterday talking about every IOT device that now is internet access, starts to get access to large language models. Every little sensor, every camera, everything that’s out there starts to get smart. But there’s a point. The first trillionaire, I believe, will be created here. Elon’s already halfway there. [00:38:24] Jay McBain: Um, but when Bill Gates thought there was gonna be a PC in every home, and IBM thought they were gonna sell 10,000 to hobbyists, that created the richest person in the world for 20 years, there will be a humanoid in every home. There’s gonna be a point in time that you’re out having drinks with your friends, and somebody’s gonna say, the early adopter of your friends is gonna say. [00:38:46] Jay McBain: I haven’t done the dishes in six weeks. I haven’t done the laundry. I haven’t made my bed. I haven’t mowed the lawn. When they say that, you’re gonna say, well, how? And they’re gonna say, well, this year I didn’t buy a new car, but I went to the car dealership and I bought this. So we’re very close to the dexterity needed. [00:39:05] Jay McBain: We’ve got the large language models. Now. The chat, GPT version 10 by then is going to make an insane, and every house is gonna have one of the. [00:39:17] Jay McBain: This is the promise of ai. It’s not humanoid robots, it’s not agents. It’s this. 99% of the world’s business data has not been trained or tuned into models yet. Again, this is the slow moving business. If you want to think about the 99% of business data, every flight we’ve all taken in this room sits on a saber system that was put in place in 1964. [00:39:43] Jay McBain: Every banking transaction, we’ve all made, every withdrawal, every deposit sits on an IBM mainframe put in place in the sixties or seventies. 83% of this data sits in cold storage at the edge. It’s not ready to be moved. It’s not cleansed, it’s not, um, indexed. It’s not in any format or sitting on any infrastructure that a large language model will be able to gobble up the data. [00:40:10] Jay McBain: None of the workflows, none of the programming on top of that data is yet ready. So this is your 10 to 20 year arc of this era that chat bot today when they cancel your flight is cute. It’s empathetic, it feels bad for you, or at least it seems to, but it can’t do anything. It can’t book you the Marriott and get you an Uber and then a 5:00 AM flight the next morning. [00:40:34] Jay McBain: It can’t do any of that. But more importantly, it doesn’t know who you are. I’ve got 53 years of flights under my belt and they, I’m the person that get me within six hours of my kids and get me a one-way Hertz rental. You know, if there’s bad weather in Miami, get me to Tampa, get me a Hertz, I’m driving home, I’m gonna make it home. [00:40:56] Jay McBain: I’m not the 5:00 AM get me a hotel person. They would know that if they picked up the flights that I’ve taken in the past. Each of us are different. When you get access to the business data and you become ag agentic, everything changes. Every industry changes because of this around the customers. When you ask about this 35% growth, working on that data, working in traditional consulting and design and implementation, working in the $7 trillion of infrastructure, storage, compute, networking, that’s gonna be around, this is a massive opportunity. [00:41:30] Jay McBain: Services are gonna continue to outgrow products. Probably for the next five to 10 years because of this, and I’m gonna finish here. So we talked a lot about quantifying names, faces, places, and I think where we failed the most as ultimate partners is underneath the tam, which every one of our CEOs knows to the decimal point underneath the TAM that our board thinks they’re chasing. [00:41:59] Jay McBain: We’ve done a very poor job. Of talking about the available markets and obtainable markets underneath it, we, we’ve shown them theory. We’ve shown them a bunch of, you know, really smart stuff, and PowerPoint slides up the wazoo, but we’ve never quantified it for them. If they wanna win, if they want to get access, if they want to double their pipeline, triple their pipeline, if they wanna start winning more deals, if they wanna win deals that are three times larger, they close two times faster. [00:42:31] Jay McBain: And they renew 15% larger. They have to get into the available and obtainable markets. So just in the last couple weeks I spoke at Cribble, I spoke at Octane, I spoke at CrowdStrike Falcon. All three of those companies at the CEO level, main stage use those exact three numbers, three x, two x, 15%. That’s the language of platforms, and they’re investing millions and millions and millions of dollars on teams. [00:42:59] Jay McBain: To go build out the Sam Andal in name spaces and places. So you’ve heard me talk about these 28 moments a lot. They’re the ones that you spend when you buy a car. Some people spend one moment and they drive to the Cadillac dealership. ’cause Larry’s been, you know, taking care of the family for 50 years. [00:43:18] Jay McBain: Some people spend 50 moments like I do, watching every YouTube video and every, you know, thing on the internet. I clear the internet cover to cover. But the fact is, is every deal averages around these 28 moments. Your customer, there’s 13 members of the buying committee today. There’s seven partners and they’re buying seven things. [00:43:37] Jay McBain: There’s 27 things orchestrating inside these 28 moments. And where and how they all take place is a story of partnering. So a couple of years ago, canals. Latin for channel was acquired by amia, which is a part of Informa Tech Target, which is majority owned by Informa. All that being said, there’s hundreds of magazines that we have. [00:44:00] Jay McBain: There’s hundreds of events that we run. If somebody’s buying cybersecurity, they probably went to Black Hat or they probably went to GI Tech. One of these events we run, or one of the magazines. So we pick up these signals, these buyer intent signals as a company. Why did they wanna, um, buy a, uh, a Canals, which was a, you know, a small analyst firm around channels? [00:44:22] Jay McBain: They understood this as well. The 28 moments look a lot like this when marketers and salespeople are busy filling in the spots of every deal. And by the way, this is a real deal. AstraZeneca came in to spend millions of dollars on ASAP transformation, and you can start to see as the customer got smart. [00:44:45] Jay McBain: The eBooks, they read the podcasts, they listened to the events they went to. You start to see how this played out over the long term. But the thing we’ve never had in our industry is the light blue boxes. This deal was won and lost in December. In this particular case, NTT software won and Yash came in and sold the customer five projects. [00:45:07] Jay McBain: The millions of dollars that were going to be spent were solved here. The design and architecture work was all done here. A couple of ISVs You see in light blue came in right at the end, deal was closed in April. You see the six month cycle. But what if you could fill in every one of the 28 boxes in every single customer prospect that your sales and marketing team have? [00:45:30] Jay McBain: But here’s the brilliance of this. Those light blue boxes didn’t win the deals there. They won the deals months before that. So when NTT and Software one walked into this deal. They probably won the deal back in October and they had to go through the redlining. They had to go through the contracting, they had to go through all the stuff and the Gantt chart to get started. [00:45:54] Jay McBain: But while your CMO is getting all excited about somebody reading an ebook and triggering an MQL that the sales team doesn’t want, ’cause it’s not qualified, it’s not sales qualified, you walk in and say, no, no. This is a multimillion deal, dollar deal. It’s AstraZeneca. I know the five partners that are coming in in December to solidify the seven layers, and you’re walking in at the same time as the CMOs bragging about an ebook. [00:46:21] Jay McBain: This changes everything. If we could get to this level of data about every dollar of our tam, we not only outgrow our competitors, we become the platforms of the next generation. Partnering and ultimate partnering is all here. And this is what we’re doing in this room. This is what we’re doing over these couple of days, and this is what, uh, the mission that Vince is leading. [00:46:43] Jay McBain: Thank you so much. [00:46:47] Vince Menzione: Woo. Day in the house. Good to see you my friend. Good to see you. Oh, we’re gonna spend a couple minutes. Um, I’m put you in the second seat. We’re gonna put, we’re gonna make it sit fireside for a minute. Uh, that was intense. It was pretty incredible actually, Jay. And so I’m, I think I wanna open it up ’cause we only have a few minutes just to, any questions? [00:47:06] Vince Menzione: I’m sure people are just digesting. We already have one up here. See, [00:47:09] Question: Jay knows I’m [00:47:10] Vince Menzione: a question. I love it. We, I don’t think we have any I can grab a mic, a roving mic. I could be a roving mic person. Hold on. We can do this. This is not on. [00:47:25] Vince Menzione: Test, test. Yes it is. Yeah. [00:47:26] Question: Theresa Carriol dared me to ask a question and I say, you don’t have to dare me. You know, I’m going to Anyway. Um, so Jay, of the point of view that with all of the new AI players that strategic alliances is again having a moment, and I was curious your point of view on what you’re seeing around this emergence and trend of strategic alliances and strategic alliance management. [00:47:52] Question: As compared to channel management. And what are you seeing in terms of large vendors like AWS investing in that strategic alliance role versus that channel role training, enablement, measurement, all that good stuff? [00:48:06] Jay McBain: Yeah, it’s, it’s a great question. So when I told the story about toast at the restaurant or Square or Clover, they’re not call, they’re not gonna call open AI or Nvidia themselves either. [00:48:17] Jay McBain: When you look out at the 250,000 ISVs. That make up this AI stack, there is the layers that happen there. So the Alliance with AWS, the alliance they have with Microsoft or Google is going to be how they generate agent AI in their platforms. So when I talk about a seven layer stack, the average deal being seven layers, AI is gonna drive this to nine, and then 11, then probably 13. [00:48:44] Jay McBain: So in terms of how alliances work, I had it up there as one of the five core strategies, and I think it’s pretty even. You can have the best alliances in the world, but if the seven partners trusted by the customer don’t know what that alliance is and the benefits to the customer and never mention it, it’s all for Naugh. [00:49:00] Jay McBain: If you’re go-to market, you’re co-selling, your co-marketing strategies are not built around that alliance. It’s all for naught. If the integration and the co-innovation, the co-development, the all the co-creation work that’s done inside these alliances isn’t translated to customer outcomes, it’s all for naugh. [00:49:17] Jay McBain: These are all five parallel swim lanes. All five are absolutely critically needed. And I think they’re all five pretty equally weighted in terms of needing each other. Yes. To be successful in the era of platforms. Yeah. [00:49:32] Vince Menzione: And the problem is they’re all stove pipe today. If, if at all. Yeah. Maintained, right. [00:49:36] Vince Menzione: Alliances is an example. Channels and other example. They don’t talk to one another. Judge any, we’ve got a mic up here if anybody else has. Yep. We have some questions here, Jacqueline. [00:49:51] Question: So when we’re developing our channel programs, any advice on, you know, what’s the shift that we should make six months from now, a year from now? The historical has been bronze, silver, gold, right? And you’ve got your deal registration, but what’s the future look like? [00:50:05] Jay McBain: Yeah, so I mean, the programs are, are changing to, to the point where the customer should be in the middle and realizing the seven partners you need to win the deal. [00:50:15] Jay McBain: And depending on what category of product you’re in, security, how much you rely on resell, 91.6%. You know, the channel partners are gonna be critical where the customer spends the money. And if you’re adding friction to that process, you’re adding friction in terms of your growth. So you know, if you’re in cybersecurity, you have to have a pretty wide open reseller model. [00:50:39] Jay McBain: You have to have a wide open distribution model, and you have to make sure you’re there at that point of sale. While at the same time, considering the other six partners at moment 12 who are in either saying nice things about you or not, the customer might even be starting with you. ’cause there is actually one thing that I didn’t mention when I showed the 28 moments filled in. [00:51:00] Jay McBain: You’ll notice that the customer went to AWS twice direct. AWS lost the deal. Microsoft won the deal software. One is Microsoft’s biggest reseller in the world. They just acquired crayon. NTT who, who loves both had their Microsoft team go in. [00:51:18] Question: Mm. [00:51:19] Jay McBain: So I think that they went to AWS thinking it was A-W-S-S-A-P, you know, kind of starting this seven layer stack. [00:51:25] Jay McBain: I think they finished those, you know, critical moments in the middle looking at it. And then they went back to AWS kind of going probably WWTF. Yeah. What we thought was happening isn’t actually the outcome that was painted by our most trusted people. So, you know, to answer your question, listen to your partners. [00:51:43] Jay McBain: They want to be recognized for the other things they’re doing. You can’t be spending a hundred percent of the dollars at the point of sale. You gotta have a point of system that recognizes the point of sale, maybe even gold, silver, bronze, but recognizing that you’re paying for these other moments as well. [00:51:57] Jay McBain: Paying for alliances, paying for integrations and everything else, uh, in the cyber stack. And, um, you know, recognizing also the top 1000. So if I took your tam. And I overlaid those thousand logos. I would be walking into 2026 the best I could of showing my company logo by logo, where 80% of our TAM sits as wallet share, not by revenue. [00:52:25] Jay McBain: Remember, a million dollar partner is not a million dollar partner. One of them sells 1.2 million in our category. We should buy them a baseball cap and have ’em sit in the front row of our event. One of them sells $10 million and only sells our stuff if the customer asks. So my company should be looking at that $9 million opportunity and making sure my programs are writing the checks and my coverage. [00:52:48] Jay McBain: My capacity and capability planning is getting obsessed over that $9 million. My farmers can go over there, my hunters can go over here, and I should be submitting a list of a thousand sorted in descending order of opportunity. Of where my company can write program dollars into. [00:53:07] Vince Menzione: Great answer. All right. I, I do wanna be cognizant of time and the, all the other sessions we have. [00:53:14] Vince Menzione: So we’ll just take one other question if there are any here and if not, we’ll let I know. Jay, you’re gonna be mingling around for a little while before your flight. I’m [00:53:21] Jay McBain: here the whole day. [00:53:22] Vince Menzione: You, you’re the whole day. I see that Jay’s here the whole day. So if you have any other questions and, and, uh, sharing the deck is that. [00:53:29] Vince Menzione: Yep. Alright. We have permission to share the deck with the each of you as well. [00:53:34] Jay McBain: Alright, well thank you very much everyone. Jay. Great to have you.

Welcome to the What's Next! Podcast with Tiffani Bova. As we approach the end of the year, I'm pausing to look back and celebrate all of the wonderful guests that I had the honor of speaking to on the show. And based on your feedback, many of these guests resonated with you as well so we're giving you another chance to revisit the stories, insights, and lessons you loved most in 2025!   This week, I'm excited to highlight an episode with Steve Lucas.   Steve is a seasoned executive with nearly 30 years of experience in enterprise software leadership. As the CEO of Boomi, he spearheads efforts to connect the world through a transformative technology platform. Previously, he was the CEO of Marketo and iCIMS. At Marketo, he transformed the company's sales, marketing, and product strategies, culminating in its 2018 acquisition by Adobe. At iCIMS, he introduced the Talent Cloud, enabling 40% of the Fortune 100 to hire millions of employees annually. Earlier roles included senior executive positions at Adobe, SAP, Salesforce, and BusinessObjects.      THIS EPISODE IS PERFECT FOR…business leaders navigating digital transformation, especially those eager to understand how AI will reshape organizations.  TODAY'S MAIN MESSAGE…it's easy to get swept up in the hype around AI, but what does transformation actually look like in practice? Steve explores the dramatic shift AI is bringing to enterprise software, from the rise of AI agents to the decline of traditional user interfaces. He shares how businesses can prepare for an agentic future where success will depend on collaboration between humans and AI.  KEY TAKEAWAYS:  - Human resistance to change is often about trust and not capability  - AI won't replace humans but augment them (if we allow it)  - Leaders should focus less on tools and more on the business outcomes they unlock    WHAT I LOVE MOST… Steve's reminder that in a world full of hype and disruption, trust is still the currency that matters most. No matter how powerful AI becomes, if people don't trust it—or the companies using it—it won't deliver value.    Running Time: 28:44      Subscribe on iTunes       Find Tiffani Online:  LinkedIn  Facebook  X      Find Steve Online:  LinkedIn    Steve's Book:  Digital Impact: The Human Element of AI-Driven Transformation 

Steve Lucas is the CEO of Boomi, a leading integration and automation platform. Before joining Boomi, Steve served as CEO of Marketo, where he led the company's transformation from a $1.6 billion valuation to its acquisition by Adobe for $4.75 billion in just 24 months—one of the largest software acquisitions in history. Prior to that, he held executive leadership roles at SAP and Salesforce, and cut his teeth in technology at Microsoft in the early 1990s. Steve is the author of "Digital Impact," exploring how AI and intelligent automation are reshaping business and society. A passionate advocate for diabetes research after being diagnosed with type 1 diabetes at 26, he serves on the board of the Children's Diabetes Foundation and recently established an endowed chair for diabetes research at the University of Colorado. Known for his curiosity, authenticity, and unwavering commitment to customers—he makes it a rule to speak with at least one customer every single day—Steve brings a unique blend of technical expertise and people-first leadership to one of technology's most transformative eras. In this episode, we discuss: How Bill McDermott's simple advice—"just be you"—freed Steve from a decade of self-doubt and changed his career trajectory The power of saying "no": How Steve took Marketo from $1.6B to $4.9B by doing less, not more Why talking to a customer every single day is non-negotiable and how it transforms your entire organization Turning adversity into strength: Steve's journey with type 1 diabetes and the moment that changed his perspective forever The future of AI in the workplace and why we're the last generation of managers to manage only humans

How fast will AI reshape marketing operations—and can leaders afford to sit on the sidelines? Host Clark Newby sits down with Tom Grubb, sales and marketing enablement consultant and former exec at Marketo and Intuit, to break it all down.In this episode of Tomorrow's Best Practices, Clark and Tom unpack what's happening right now in marketing operations and go-to-market strategy as AI moves from theory to daily practice. Fresh off MarketingPalooza, Tom shares what he heard from marketing ops leaders on the ground—from AI agents that can execute Marketo tasks to teams building their own custom agents for analytics and operations.They explore the real tension leaders face today: innovation versus risk. How much control is enough before trusting automation? When does playing it safe actually become the bigger risk? And what happens when your competitors move faster than your internal processes can keep up?-----CONNECT with us at:Website: https://leadtail.com/Leadtail TV: https://www.leadtailtv.com/LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/lead...Twitter: https://twitter.com/leadtailFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/Leadtail/Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/leadtail/----0:00 – The Risk vs Reward of Adopting New Technology 1:03 – Welcome to Tomorrow's Best Practices + Guest Introduction 3:09 – Cutting Through Chaos With Data and Alignment 3:57 – MarketingPalooza Takeaways and the AI Pulse Check 7:33 – Where AI Is Showing Up in Marketing Ops Right Now 8:31 – AI Agents, Automation, and Building Your Own Tools 13:08 – Trust, Hallucinations, and When Automation Becomes Risky 17:09 – Marketing, Measurement, and Board-Level Expectations 22:44 – Defining What Marketing Success Really Means 29:37 – Life Outside Work and a Book for Boards and Marketers #b2bmarketing #b2b

What's up everyone, today we have the pleasure of sitting down with Anna Leary, Director of Marketing Operations at Alma.(00:00) - Intro (01:15) - In This Episode (04:38) - How to Prevent Burnout (05:46) - What Companies Can Do Better (07:50) - Agility of Planning (08:53) - Why Saying No Strengthens Marketing Operations (13:48) - How to Decide When to Push Back (18:03) - Hill To Die On (20:03) - How to Handle Constant Pushback (29:55) - Wishlist (37:06) - How to Use Asynchronous Communication to Reduce Stress (44:24) - How To Evaluate Martech Tools Based On Real Business Impact (48:45) - Why Marketing Ops Needs Visible Work Systems (51:24) - Health Awareness (52:56) - How to Recognize and Prevent Burnout in Marketing Operations Summary: Anna built systems to keep marketing running smoothly, but the real lesson came when those same systems failed to protect her. In this episode, she shares how saying no became her survival skill, why visibility is the antidote to burnout, and how calm structure (not constant hustle) keeps teams sharp and human. It's a story about boundaries, balance, and learning to lead without losing yourself.About AlmaAnna Leary is the Director of Marketing Operations at Alma, where she builds scalable systems that help marketing teams work smarter. With a focus on lead flow, data architecture, and enablement, she's known for creating centers of excellence that turn fragmented operations into cohesive, measurable programs. As a Marketo Certified Solutions Architect and Marketo Measure (Bizible) specialist, Anna brings a rare balance of technical depth and strategic clarity to every initiative she leads.Before joining Alma, Anna spent more than a decade shaping marketing operations strategies for brands like Uber, Teamwork, Sauce Labs, and Bitly. Whether optimizing attribution models or training teams to adopt new workflows, Anna's work always centers on efficiency, empowerment, and driving impact across the full marketing ecosystem.Burnout and BalanceMarketing ops work demands constant precision. Teams juggle system integrations, data cleanups, and new tech rollouts, often all before lunch. The job requires mental endurance and a tolerance for chaos. Anna understands this well. “Everyone's trying to be the person who knows the newest tech,” she said. “It's hard to keep up, and that adds to the mental load.” The competition to stay relevant has turned into a quiet stress test that too many operators fail without noticing.The strange part is that ops teams often create systems designed to protect their organizations but rarely use those same systems to protect themselves. Anna explained how Service Level Agreements (SLAs) can lose their meaning when teams treat them as flexible. Urgent requests push through, exceptions pile up, and structure dissolves. Each “quick favor” chips away at the purpose of having defined processes. She put it plainly:“If we're making an exception for everything, then we're not respecting the process.”When teams stop respecting their own boundaries, burnout follows quickly. SLAs exist to create stability, and stability is what keeps people sane. Following process is not bureaucracy; it is protection. It gives operators time to think clearly, plan ahead, and make fewer reactive decisions. That way you can build predictability into your week instead of letting other people's emergencies define it.Anna also shared how her team reworked its entire planning system to reduce stress. “We used to do quarterly capacity planning,” she said, “but half the projects fell apart by week four.” She scrapped the process and replaced it with smaller, rolling cycles that fit the unpredictable nature of marketing requests. For someone who identifies as Type A, letting go of that much structure felt risky, but the tradeoff was worth it. Her team now works with more energy, less anxiety, and a better sense of control.“Giving up some of that control is actually good in the end because it's less stressful.”Her story shows how burnout prevention depends on structure that adapts. Ops professionals do their best work when their systems reflect real life, not an idealized version of it. Boundaries, planning, and discipline should support humans, not box them in.Key takeaway: Protect your team's mental health by enforcing the systems you build. Treat SLAs as promises, not preferences. Review your planning cycles regularly and adjust them to match the actual pace of work. Stability in ops comes from building rules that people respect and structures that evolve as the business changes.The Power of NoSaying no is one of the hardest and most necessary skills in marketing operations. Every week brings a new request, a “quick fix,” or a last-minute idea that someone swears will only take five minutes. Anna treats these moments as boundary checks. They test whether her team can protect their focus without losing trust or influence across the company.“Boundaries in your personal life mirror boundaries in your professional life. You can't sustain either without learning to say no.”Anna connects this discipline to mental health. After years of therapy, she learned that setting boundaries preserves energy and prevents resentment from creeping into work. In marketing ops, that means understanding when to say no and why. A no can be temporary, like “no for now,” or conditional, like “come back once X, Y, and Z are ready.” That clarity gives teams space to plan properly instead of reacting in chaos.Too many ops teams still act like order-takers. They manage tickets, fix errors, and scramble to meet every demand, even when requests come without context. Anna believes teams must reposition themselves as strategic partners. That means asking sharper questions such as, “How does this connect to our business goals?” or “Which KPI does this move?” Every yes should come with evidence, not obligation. When ops speaks in the language of impact, their boundaries start to hold.To back that up, Anna recommends showing the work already in motion. Pull up your team's Notion or Asana board, point to the commitments everyone approved, and remind stakeholders that priorities are already locked for this sprint. That way you can shift the conversation from emotion to logic. Plans exist for a reason. If the company wants to keep changing direction, it must accept the cost of constant interruption.Anna's approach creates psychological safety for her team. She recently told a contractor to stop overthinking a request that was technically impossible. Her words were simple: “It's okay to tell them we can't do this.” Those six words carried permission to rest, to stop chasing unrealistic expectations, and to respect the limits of their tools and time. Teams that learn this kind of confidence avoid burnout and deliver better results with less noise.Key takeaway: Boundaries are an operational discipline, not an act of defiance. Use clear priorities, visible sprint boards, and company KPIs as your guardrails. Frame every no around impact and alignment. That way you can protect focus, maintain trust with stakeholders, and keep your team mentally healthy while still driving the business forward.Hiring Experts Only to Tell Them What to DoEvery marketing ops professional eventually faces a request that makes their skin crawl. For Anna, it was the “no-reply” email debate. A stakeholder wanted to send a campaign from a no-reply address in Marketo. She had explained countless times why that idea goes against every principle of customer experience. It blocks responses, damages trust, and kills engagemen...

In the first ever live edition of How to Grow a CMO, we bring together four heavyweight marketing leaders to unpack career journeys, the realities of modern B2B marketing, and how to survive (and improve) annual planning season. Host Alastair Hussain interviews:Carolyn Henry - most recently Regional CMO of the Americas at Intel, leading 60+ marketers across consumer, commercial, gaming, data centre, AI, telco and enterprise, and a board member of the Silicon Valley Education Foundation.Kelly Waldher - CMO at Palo Alto Networks, responsible for global brand, demand, field and comms, formerly CMO at Zendesk with prior leadership roles at Google, Microsoft and Qualtrics, and an HBS MBA.Negin Kamangar - a career CMO with 20+ years in high-growth SaaS, including leading Parchment through an $835m acquisition by Instructure, now also a limited partner at Stage 2 Capital and a Chicago Booth MBA.Jon Miller - co-founder of Marketo and Engagio, now building a new stealth AI-era marketing platform. He writes extensively on LinkedIn about buying groups vs MQLs, brand as a revenue driver, and hosts the Marketing on the Rocks video series.

Scrappy ABM brings a focused look at business to government—B2G in the context of an ABM program. Host Mason Cosby sits down with Michelle Hanley to map the nuances of payment processing for governments across state and local. With a finite group of agencies, shifting election cycles, and long six to 24-month timelines, buying groups change and risk aversion is real. Michelle lays out a play that flips “normal B2B” on its head: events to meet new people and get contacts, email as the day-to-day touchpoint, and webinars that are completely bottom of funnel—often a sniff test for open opportunities. Listen for practical talk on RFPs, contact harvest, segmentation by state or city, stage one opportunities, and why “if it ain't broke, don't fix it” still shapes adoption—while teams have to get scrappy with budget.ㅤ

In this episode of the OnBase Podcast, host Chris Moody sits down with Craig Abramson of Workday to discuss how data quality, timing, and automation shape the future of account-based marketing (ABM) and experience (ABX).Craig's story, starting as a content writer, evolving through startup marketing, and now running enterprise-level ABX programs at Workday, offers a rare view into how strategy scales with data maturity. From early experiments targeting QuickBooks users to Workday's global predictive engagement models, Craig breaks down how precision targeting drives faster deals, cleaner funnels, and measurable growth.Key TakeawaysData quality is the foundation “Garbage in, garbage out” isn't a cliché, it's a law. Whether at a startup or Workday, the success of ABM hinges on accurate, verified, and purposeful data. A bad contact record can derail an entire funnel.Timing is the game-changer Intent data and predictive scoring help pinpoint the exact moment an account is ready to engage. Craig's own campaign once closed a $250M+ enterprise deal in just three months, half the usual cycle, simply because the timing was right.Start small, learn fast Even at large companies, Craig applies a startup mindset: test, pivot, refine. His early ABM wins came from focusing on a narrow list of accounts with shared pain points rather than broad campaigns.ABX + demand gen = harmony, not competition At Workday, the ABX team focuses on the top 15% of high-scoring accounts, while demand gen drives scale. Together they operate like retail tiers, demand gen as the “big box store,” ABX as the “personal shopper,” and 1:1 ABM as the “bespoke tailor.”Messaging makes or breaks sales Even the best solution fails with the wrong message. Alignment between marketing and sales must start with consistent, audience-specific messaging that speaks to pain points, not features.AI is the amplifier, not the author Craig uses AI tools like Gemini to analyze data sets in hours instead of days but stresses the importance of human instinct: “AI can't feel what will resonate, but it can help you see what you'd otherwise miss.”Quotes“The right message at the wrong time is just as bad as the wrong message altogether.”Tech RecommendationsDemandbase Salesforce Google GeminiMarketoHubSpotResource RecommendationsBlog:Niel Patel: Author: Neil Patel | Co Founder of NP Digital & Owner of UbersuggestPodcast:Martech Podcast: Marketing technology trends and tools.Shout-OutsMatthew Miller - Sr Principal, Global ABX. Workday.About the GuestCraig Abramson is a strategic and results-driven marketing leader with extensive experience driving growth for B2B software companies. He has proven expertise in developing and executing full-funnel marketing strategies that dramatically increase brand awareness, accelerate lead generation and drive pipeline, consistently exceeding KPIs. A master of implementing bootstrap marketing techniques to achieve outstanding results regardless of budget, he is skilled in Go-to-Market planning, AI optimization, SEO/SEM, Marketo automation, content strategy, and analyst relations, with a history of leading companies from startup to successful acquisition. Craig most recently was brought on to lead marketing at Zimit, a services configure price quote SaaS solution. Zimit was acquired by Workday in 2022. Craig continues to work at Workday on the Account Based Experience team, running global programs to drive pipeline from the top 15% of accounts that are most likely in the market for Workday's solutions.Connect with Craig.

In this OnBase episode, host Chris Moody reconnects with marketing visionary Jon Miller for a deep dive into the evolution of B2B marketing and the transformative role of artificial intelligence in shaping the future of go-to-market strategy.Jon shares his remarkable journey, from studying physics to co-founding Marketo and Engagio, joining Demandbase, and now launching his next venture at the cutting edge of AI. He reflects on the lessons learned from past technology revolutions, drawing parallels between the early internet era and today's AI boom.Listeners gain an inside look at how AI is fundamentally changing both software innovation and buyer behavior, why marketers must shift from quantity to quality-driven personalization, and what it takes to build organizations that thrive in an AI-first world.This episode is packed with insights for anyone navigating marketing's AI transformation, from creative storytellers to data-driven tacticians.Key TakeawaysThe Biggest Shift Since the Internet AI isn't just another tech trend, it's as transformative as the rise of the internet. We're entering a new era where software can do things we never imagined, enabling businesses that couldn't exist before.The “Jagged Frontier” of AI AI excels at some tasks and fails at others. The key is daily experimentation, understanding where AI amplifies your strengths and where human oversight is indispensable.From Quantity to Quality The goal isn't to send more emails, it's to deliver more relevant experiences. AI's true power lies in helping marketers achieve genuine one-to-one personalization through smarter orchestration, not mass automation.The Human – AI Partnership Future success lies in collaboration: humans provide creativity and empathy; AI handles data, optimization, and orchestration. Together, they create outcomes neither could achieve alone.Culture Determines AI Success Technology adoption starts with leadership. Organizations must build AI fluency into their culture, encouraging training, experimentation, and open sharing of prompts and insights.Emotion Drives Storytelling Even in B2B, emotion matters. Great storytelling taps into curiosity, excitement, and drama, whether through stealth launches, community intrigue, or relatable human experiences.Marketing Measurement Is Broken B2B marketers are still judged on MQLs and short-term results, despite the nonlinear reality of buying behavior. We need new ways to measure marketing that reflect its true long-term impact.Quotes“Don't use AI like a faster typewriter. Use it as a new form of intelligence that helps you think better.”Tech recommendationsDescript – For seamless AI-powered video and podcast editing.Crosby.ai – An AI-enabled law firm combining automation with human legal review.Resource recommendationsBooksThe Advantage by Patrick Lencioni – A guide to building healthy, high-performing organizations.Setting the Table by Danny Meyer – Lessons on culture and leadership from the hospitality world.Turn the Ship Around by L. David Marquet – Empowerment and leadership through intentional communication.NewsletterAlmost Timely Newsletter by Chris Penn.Kieran Flanahan Newsletter on Medium.Shout-outsChris Penn – AI strategist and co-founder of Trust Insights.Kieran Flanagan – SVP, Marketing, AI & GTM (SVP) and B2B growth expert and AI prompt innovator.Kathleen Schwab – Author of Marketing in the Great Big Messy World.About the GuestJon Miller is a marketing technology pioneer and serial founder. He co-founded Marketo, Engagio, and later served as CMO of Demandbase, helping redefine how B2B companies go to market. Now building his next AI-focused startup, Jon also advises tech companies on strategy and growth. A frequent keynote speaker and author of The Definitive Guides to ABM and Marketing Automation, he's been recognized as one of the world's top B2B marketers.Connect with Jon.

In this episode, we sit down with Nick Bonfiglio, CEO and Co-Founder of Syncari, to explore how Agentic Master Data Management (Agentic MDM) is revolutionizing the way enterprises handle data. Nick shares his insights on building AI-ready data infrastructures, the importance of trusted data for automation and decision-making, and how Syncari is helping companies unify, govern, and synchronize their information across systems in real time. With patented multi-directional synchronization and an intelligent data quality engine, Syncari empowers organizations to eliminate data silos, enforce integrity, and achieve real-time governance. Nick also discusses his journey from leading global product at Marketo—growing it from $2.5M to $300M ARR—to now driving innovation at Syncari, where the focus is on enabling AI-driven enterprises to scale faster and smarter. If you're passionate about AI, data management, or the future of automation, this episode will give you an inside look at how data trust fuels the next generation of intelligent systems. Host: Jake Aaron Villarreal, leads the top AI Recruitment Firm in Silicon Valley www.matchrelevant.com, uncovering stories of funded startups and goes behinds to scenes to tell their founders journey.  If you are growing AI Startup or have a great storytelling, email us at: jake.villarreal@matchrelevant.com

Warren Zenna sits down with Michael Maimone, CRO at LucidLink, to unpack his journey from BDR to enterprise sales leader to CRO. Michael shares how his time at IBM, Marketo, Adobe, and ZoomInfo shaped a systems mindset, enabling him to translate big-company rigor into agile, early-stage execution without stifling momentum.They dive into the first 30-60-90 days in the seat: observe, diagnose, implement. Michael explains how he sequenced quick wins—enablement, RevOps guardrails, hiring profiles, interview kits—before rolling out robust territory, account, and opportunity planning. He emphasizes credibility through results and the art of modulation when change-managing seasoned teams.Michael details LucidLink's category-defining approach to distributed cloud file access for massive media and design workflows, and how that expands into broader enterprise use cases. He outlines direct and channel motions, global team structure, and the zero-knowledge security model that unlocks collaboration without compromising control.The conversation closes with pragmatic AI adoption across Gong, ZoomInfo, dialers, website conversion, and Gemini-driven planning. Michael shares early signal lifts, how to beat tool fatigue, why human analysts still matter, and advice to aspiring CROs: lead cross-functionally, stay humble, build lieutenants, and align every motion to predictable, scalable revenue.

Successful marketers are able to anticipate and act on opportunities and trends, but what happens when the next 10 days can be as difficult to predict as the next 10 years? Agility requires not only rapid responses to changing market conditions, but also the ability to anticipate and proactively shape those conditions to your advantage. It's no longer enough to react; you have to predict and influence.Today, we're going to talk about navigating the uncertainties of the current digital advertising environment and maximizing ROI when forecasting feels like gazing into a crystal ball. To help me discuss this topic, I'd like to welcome, Heidi Bullock, CMO at Tealium. About Heidi Bullock Currently the CMO of Tealium, a customer data platform (CDP) provider, Heidi Bullock is an experienced marketing executive who has built a 20+ year career working at both global enterprise technology companies and start-ups. Prior, she was the CMO of Engagio, where she was responsible for the go-to-market strategy, product marketing, internal sales, corporate communications and ABM initiatives. Before Engagio, Heidi was the Group Vice President of Global Marketing at Marketo. Heidi has contributed to key thought leadership guides, including the Clear and Complete Guide to ABM Analytics and the Definitive Guide to Account-Based Marketing, Lead Generation, Content, Mobile Marketing, and Engaging Email. Heidi is a frequent speaker and guest lecturer for B2B marketing. Heidi Bullock on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/hbullock/ Resources Tealium: https://www.tealium.com The Agile Brand podcast is brought to you by TEKsystems. Learn more here: https://www.teksystems.com/versionnextnow Try ZipRecruiter for FREE at ZipRecruiter.com/audio Don't Miss MAICON 2025, October 14-16 in Cleveland - the event bringing together the brights minds and leading voices in AI. Use Code AGILE150 for $150 off registration. Go here to register: https://bit.ly/agile150 Connect with Greg on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/gregkihlstromDon't miss a thing: get the latest episodes, sign up for our newsletter and more: https://www.theagilebrand.showCheck out The Agile Brand Guide website with articles, insights, and Martechipedia, the wiki for marketing technology: https://www.agilebrandguide.com The Agile Brand is produced by Missing Link—a Latina-owned strategy-driven, creatively fueled production co-op. From ideation to creation, they craft human connections through intelligent, engaging and informative content. https://www.missinglink.company

Successful marketers are able to anticipate and act on opportunities and trends, but what happens when the next 10 days can be as difficult to predict as the next 10 years? Agility requires not only rapid responses to changing market conditions, but also the ability to anticipate and proactively shape those conditions to your advantage. It's no longer enough to react; you have to predict and influence.Today, we're going to talk about navigating the uncertainties of the current digital advertising environment and maximizing ROI when forecasting feels like gazing into a crystal ball. To help me discuss this topic, I'd like to welcome, Heidi Bullock, CMO at Tealium. About Heidi Bullock Currently the CMO of Tealium, a customer data platform (CDP) provider, Heidi Bullock is an experienced marketing executive who has built a 20+ year career working at both global enterprise technology companies and start-ups. Prior, she was the CMO of Engagio, where she was responsible for the go-to-market strategy, product marketing, internal sales, corporate communications and ABM initiatives. Before Engagio, Heidi was the Group Vice President of Global Marketing at Marketo. Heidi has contributed to key thought leadership guides, including the Clear and Complete Guide to ABM Analytics and the Definitive Guide to Account-Based Marketing, Lead Generation, Content, Mobile Marketing, and Engaging Email. Heidi is a frequent speaker and guest lecturer for B2B marketing. Heidi Bullock on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/hbullock/ Resources Tealium: https://www.tealium.com The Agile Brand podcast is brought to you by TEKsystems. Learn more here: https://www.teksystems.com/versionnextnow Try ZipRecruiter for FREE at ZipRecruiter.com/audio Don't Miss MAICON 2025, October 14-16 in Cleveland - the event bringing together the brights minds and leading voices in AI. Use Code AGILE150 for $150 off registration. Go here to register: https://bit.ly/agile150 Connect with Greg on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/gregkihlstromDon't miss a thing: get the latest episodes, sign up for our newsletter and more: https://www.theagilebrand.showCheck out The Agile Brand Guide website with articles, insights, and Martechipedia, the wiki for marketing technology: https://www.agilebrandguide.com The Agile Brand is produced by Missing Link—a Latina-owned strategy-driven, creatively fueled production co-op. From ideation to creation, they craft human connections through intelligent, engaging and informative content. https://www.missinglink.company

This episode of the OnBase Podcast delivers a masterclass in building modern go-to-market strategies with ABM at their heart. Host Paul Gibson talks with Robert Norum about why a focused, account-based approach is no longer optional for B2B organizations—it's essential. Robert breaks down the journey from traditional, volume-based marketing to a sophisticated, tiered ABM model that aligns the entire organization.The conversation uncovers the most common challenges businesses face when adopting ABM, from securing leadership buy-in to managing expectations and moving beyond outdated MQL metrics. Robert provides a clear roadmap for success, emphasizing that ABM is not just a marketing tactic but a company-wide directive that unites sales, marketing, and customer success into a single, powerful growth engine.Listen to the full episode to gain the confidence and clarity needed to make ABM your primary GTM strategy.Key TakeawaysABM is the Go-to-Market StrategyFor enterprise organizations, ABM should be the central GTM strategy, not just another marketing program.Focus is EverythingAn account-based approach forces you to concentrate your budget, resources, and people on the accounts that truly matter..Alignment is Non-NegotiableSuccess depends on creating a "SWAT team" across sales, marketing, and customer success, all working toward shared account goals.Pilots Can Be a TrapTreating ABM as a short-term pilot is a recipe for failure; it requires long-term investment and commitment from the top down.Measure What MattersMove beyond MQLs and vanity metrics. Focus on moving the dial within target accounts, expanding your footprint, and creating real pipeline opportunities..Quotes"ABM is the glue that has the potential to really connect organizations and break down silos across different teams"Best Moments (04:37) – The Evolution of ABM: Robert discusses how ABM grew from a one-to-one approach for large enterprises to a scalable, multi-tiered strategy.(09:05) – The Case for Focus: Why concentrating on high-value accounts is the most critical decision a B2B business can make today.(20:12) – The Biggest ABM Challenge: The most common mistake companies make is diving in without defining what ABM means for their organization and getting leadership buy-in.(24:17) – The End of Silos: How an account-based approach fosters an equal partnership between sales and marketing.(30:50) – Winning Over Leadership: Strategies for building a compelling business case for ABM and getting the C-suite excited.(42:40) – The Role of AI: How AI will accelerate ABM, but human intelligence remains essential to brief, interpret, and quality-check the output.Resource RecommendationsBooks:Account-Based Marketing: The Definitive Handbook for B2B Marketers by Bev Burgess.Shout-OutsJon Miller - MarTech entrepreneur,Co-founder at Marketo and EngagioMarta George - Head of EMEA AMB Programmes, Ping Identity.Lianne O'Connor - Global Field & ABM Marketing Director, Fluke Corporation.Andy Johnson - Founder and Director of Client Strategy, HUT 3.Charlotte Graham-Cumming - CEO, Ice Blue Sky Corporation.About the GuestRobert Norum is a B2B Marketer with over 30 years experience. He has worked in magazine publishing, IT distribution, marketing agencies and for the last 20 years as an independent marketing consultant. During this time he has worked on brand, demandgen, channel, ecommerce and sales enablement. For the last 10 years he had specialised in ABM working with a number of leading agencies and directly for wide cross-section of global brands. Since 2017, he has delivered the ABM Essentials training course for B2B Marketing training over 750 marketing professionals in the process. Robert has also been the ABM and Demand Strategy Expert on Propolis since its launch.Connect with Robert.

A slightly provocative title sets the tone: the old way versus the right way. On Scrappy ABM, host Mason Cosby brings together leaders who've been in the belly of the beast—people who built ABM programs at technology vendors and across startup, mid-market, and enterprise realities. The panel aligns on a clear definition: a B2B revenue strategy that aligns marketing, sales, customer success, and rev ops around a shared target account list that reflects best customers, with data-driven decision making.From pre-COVID tool stacks (Engagio→Demandbase, Terminus, Uberflip/PathFactory, Marketo, Salesforce, LinkedIn Campaign Manager, Google Ads) to unbundled, signal-driven programs, the group contrasts platform-led decisions with strategy-first programs. Costs spiraled—$200k+ in tools and team lift pushing some stacks to $910k—while teams chased account-level intent that often came from one contact or disappeared inside the ICP filter. Today's shift centers on signals, precision, and orchestration: pick the right accounts, design plays around triggers, personalize experiences, and measure contribution, not just source. The takeaway: get the foundations right, then add tech that plays nicely together.

#280 Strategy | In this episode, Dave is joined by Gurdeep Dhillon, CMO of Contentstack. Gurdeep has built an impressive career leading marketing at some of the biggest names in enterprise software, from SAP to Adobe, Marketo to Zoura. Now at Content Stack, he's challenging conventional B2B marketing wisdom in rethinking how enterprise companies should approach demand generation and brand building. In this conversation, Dave and Gurdeep dive deep into why marketing is ultimately a game of memory and reputation, not just lead generation.Dave and Gurdeep cover:The role of Demand Gen in 2025 (and what's changed)Why Brand and Reputation should be prioritized over Lead GenerationProven strategies to create urgency and close sales deals in enterprise marketsA glimpse into ContentStack's team structure and how they plan for growthTimestamps(00:00) - - Intro to Gurdeep (06:51) - - Brand and Audience Marketing (08:03) - - How the Role of Demand Gen is Changing (12:13) - - Brand and Reputation > Lead Generation (17:03) - - How Contentstack is Doing Demand Gen (19:41) - - How to Create Urgency to Win Sales Deals (21:22) - - Making a Good Offer in B2B Marketing (22:38) - - Why Being Bold and Taking Risks is Important in Marketing (28:57) - - Selling Your Vision to Leadership (31:38) - - How Contentstack Has Over 10,000 Global ICP Accounts (36:21) - - Team Structure at Contentstack (41:19) - - Running Marketing and Operating a High-Performing Team (43:35) - - Setting Effective Annual Plans (45:50) - - AI's Role in Marketing (49:24) - - Closing Thoughts Send guest pitches and ideas to hi@exitfive.comJoin the Exit Five Newsletter here: https://www.exitfive.com/newsletterCheck out the Exit Five job board: https://jobs.exitfive.com/Become an Exit Five member: https://community.exitfive.com/checkout/exit-five-membership***This episode of the Exit Five podcast is brought to you by Qualified.AI is the hottest topic in marketing right now. And one thing we hear a lot of you marketers talking about is how you can use AI Agents to help run your marketing machine.That's where Qualifed comes in with Piper, their AI SDR agent.Piper is the #1 AI SDR Agent on the market according to G2, and hundreds of companies like Box, Asana, and Brex, have hired Piper to autonomously grow inbound pipeline. How good does that sound?Qualified customers are seeing a massive business impact with Piper: a 3X increase in meetings booked and a 2X increase in pipeline.The Agentic Marketing era has arrived. And if you're a B2B marketing leader looking to scale pipeline generation, Piper the #1 AI SDR Agent is here to help.Hire Piper, the #1 AI SDR Agent, and grow your pipeline today.You can learn more at qualified.com/exit5

Follow me @samirkaji for my thoughts on the venture market, with a focus on the continued evolution of the VC landscape.Welcome back to another episode of Venture Unlocked, the podcast that takes you behind the scenes of the business of venture capital.In today's episode, we are joined by Nakul Mandan, who is the founding partner of seed-stage firm Audacious Ventures.Having known Nakul since the early days of his journey in starting the firm in 2020, I was excited to dive deep into his unique path, from his roots in India to venture capital, working at firms such as Battery and Lightspeed before starting his own firm. As venture capital has evolved and grown, the stakes of being a successful early-stage manager have increased dramatically.In our chat, we discussed how managers should think about navigating competitive markets and how a proper system around sourcing, picking, winning, and building a brand through delivering for founders requires a machine-like approach. Audacious has created its own system, which is unlike most firms, providing a nice juxtaposition of more traditional models. This was a fun and candid deep dive into seed stage investing, and we hope you enjoy my conversation with NakulThanks for listening to another episode of Venture Unlocked. We hope you enjoyed our conversation with Nakul. If you'd like to get venture unlocked content straight to your inbox, go to ventureunlocked.substack.com and sign up, or go to Apple Podcasts or Spotify and subscribe. Thanks again for listeningAbout Nakul MandanNakul Mandan is the founder and managing partner of Audacious Ventures, a pre-seed and seed-stage venture firm he launched in April 2020—right when the world was locking down. A student of greatness, Nakul is inspired by extraordinary journeys, whether in business or beyond. Previously a Partner at Lightspeed and Battery Ventures, he led early investments in category-leading software companies like Gainsight, People.ai, Multiverse, WorkOS, 6Sense, and Marketo. A graduate of IIT Kanpur, Nakul combines deep technical insight with a founder-first mindset—and a passion for helping entrepreneurial "force-of-nature" founders assemble A+ teams.Audacious Ventures is a next-generation seed-stage investment firm that reimagines venture capital as a systematic, founder-focused platform. Founded in 2020 with a $90 million fund, the firm distinguishes itself through a unique four-pillar approach: strategic sourcing, precise deal picking, competitive deal winning, and comprehensive founder support. Unlike traditional venture models, Audacious prioritizes talent recruitment and team building, with half the team dedicated to helping founders construct exceptional organizations. The firm's data-driven yet intensely human approach has quickly positioned it as an emerging leader in the seed investment ecosystem, attracting founders seeking more than just capital, but a true strategic partner in their entrepreneurial journey.In this episode, we discuss:* Nakul's Early Life and Ambition (2:16)* Entry into Indian Venture Capital (4:00)* Transition to US-Focused VC and Lightspeed (6:41)* Becoming a GP and Founding Audacious Ventures (7:35)* Identifying Gaps in the Seed VC Market (10:34)* Audacious Ventures' Differentiated Model (12:34)* Functional Organizational Design (16:12)* Traditional vs. Platform Seed Fund Models (19:24)* Ensuring Consistency in the Platform Model (24:41)* Hiring for Intensity and Culture (29:55)* Measuring Success and Feedback Loops (35:33)* False Positives and Markups in VC (41:30)* Ranking the Four Pillars: Sourcing, Picking, Winning, Helping (45:13)* Advice to 2006 Self: Focus on Asymmetric Upside (49:54)* Final Thoughts and Takeaways (51:44)I'd love to know what you took away from this conversation with Nakul. Follow me @SamirKaji and give me your insights and questions with the hashtag #ventureunlocked. If you'd like to be considered as a guest or have someone you'd like to hear from (GP or LP), drop me a direct message on X. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit ventureunlocked.substack.com

Kieran Flanagan is the CMO at HubSpot, where he's led the transformation of their growth strategy from SEO-led to multi-channel and AI-powered. Formerly SVP of Marketing, he helped scale HubSpot's user base to millions and revenue past $2B. Before HubSpot, he drove breakout growth at Marketo and Salesforce. Kieran is one of the most respected voices in SaaS marketing and a pioneer in growth-driven content strategy. Agenda: 00:03 – The Death of Growth Teams? Kieran's Wild Prediction 06:44 – AI Innovation Pods: The New Org Structure for Startups 10:18 – Email Personalization That Tripled Conversions 13:21 – From Software Budget to Labor Budget: The Shift is Happening 16:35 – The Big Lie: Why Autonomous Agents Still Suck 19:24 – The Secret Sauce Behind HubSpot's Email AI Stack 21:44 – Segment-Based Marketing Is Dead. Enter Micro Audiences. 24:15 – Content Collapse: Why Google Organic Is Getting Torched 30:52 – The Future of AI SEO: 1 Product, 100 Pages, Infinite Prompts 33:16 – Memory = Moat: Why ChatGPT Is Becoming Unbeatable 35:46 – Prompt Engineering is the New Coding: Here's How to Win 41:03 – The Death of the Middle Manager Marketer 46:17 – OpenAI vs. Anthropic: Kieran's $400M Bet 48:00 – Europe Is Falling Behind: The Harsh Truth on Regulation 52:39 – CMO Playbook 2025: Micro-Audiences, Creator-Led, AI at Scale    

Welcome to the What's Next! Podcast with Tiffani Bova.    This week, we hear from Steve Lucas. Steve is a seasoned executive with nearly 30 years of experience in enterprise software leadership. As the CEO of Boomi, he spearheads efforts to connect the world through a transformative technology platform. Previously, he was the CEO of Marketo and iCIMS. At Marketo, he transformed the company's sales, marketing, and product strategies, culminating in its 2018 acquisition by Adobe. At iCIMS, he introduced the Talent Cloud, enabling 40% of the Fortune 100 to hire millions of employees annually. Earlier roles included senior executive positions at Adobe, SAP, Salesforce, and BusinessObjects.    THIS EPISODE IS PERFECT FOR…business leaders navigating digital transformation, especially those eager to understand how AI will reshape organizations.   TODAY'S MAIN MESSAGE…it's easy to get swept up in the hype around AI, but what does transformation actually look like in practice? Steve explores the dramatic shift AI is bringing to enterprise software, from the rise of AI agents to the decline of traditional user interfaces. He shares how businesses can prepare for an agentic future where success will depend on collaboration between humans and AI.   KEY TAKEAWAYS: Human resistance to change is often about trust and not capability AI won't replace humans but augment them (if we allow it) Leaders should focus less on tools and more on the business outcomes they unlock   WHAT I LOVE MOST…Steve's reminder that in a world full of hype and disruption, trust is still the currency that matters most. No matter how powerful AI becomes, if people don't trust it or the companies using it, it won't deliver value.   Running Time: 28:44    Subscribe on iTunes     Find Tiffani Online: LinkedIn Facebook X    Find Steve Online: LinkedIn   Steve's Book: Digital Impact: The Human Element of AI-Driven Transformation  

Wie verändert KI die Arbeit von Marketeers, wenn sie nicht nur Inhalte generiert, sondern Prozesse autonom übernimmt? Julian A. Kramer, Technology Evangelist bei Adobe, spricht mit Erik über den technologischen und kulturellen Wandel bei Adobe – und die strategische Rolle von KI entlang der gesamten Marketing-Wertschöpfungskette. Im Gespräch geht es um ethische, rechtliche und kreative Fragen rund um KI, die Rolle von „Agentic AI“ in Unternehmen – und wie Adobe seine Plattform für Enterprise-Kunden und Kreative gleichermaßen weiterentwickelt. Die beiden diskutieren unter anderem folgende Fragen: - Wie hat Adobe sich von der Kreativsoftware hin zur Enterprise-Plattform transformiert? - Was bedeutet „Enterprise Safe KI“ – und warum ist rechtssicheres Training so entscheidend? - Welche Rolle spielen Übernahmen wie Magento, Marketo oder Omniture in Adobes Strategie? - Was versteht man unter „Agentic AI“ – und wie verändert das die Marketingprozesse der Zukunft? - Welche Herausforderungen gibt es bei der Integration von KI in komplexe Unternehmensumgebungen? - Wie gelingt es Adobe, die Bedürfnisse von Kreativen und Marketingabteilungen in einer Plattform zu vereinen? Über Julian A. Kramer Julian A. Kramer ist Technology Evangelist bei Adobe. Nach Stationen bei Mercedes-Benz, Google und als einer der ersten YouTube-Produzenten in Europa, berät er heute Unternehmen an der Schnittstelle von Technologie, Kreativität und Strategie. Bei Adobe beschäftigt er sich mit der Zukunft des Marketings – insbesondere mit dem Einsatz von Künstlicher Intelligenz entlang der gesamten Customer Journey. Der Marketing Transformation Podcast wird produziert von TLDR Studios.

Send us a textIn a world where every software platform claims to do marketing automation, the line between true orchestration and glorified batch-and-blast gets blurry fast. Enterprise marketers, in particular, need more than bolt-on features—they need a unified engine that can keep cross-channel journeys seamless, scalable, and, ideally, sanity-preserving. That's where Marketo Engage, now under the Adobe Experience Cloud umbrella, steps in with its deep event management capabilities, brand governance tools, and robust automation muscle. But with great power comes a learning curve—and often a hefty price tag. So the real question isn't just what Marketo can do, but how it performs in the wild compared to other heavyweight contenders in the marketing tech arena.In today's episode, we invited a panel of industry experts for a live discussion on LinkedIn to conduct an independent review of Marketo's capabilities. We covered many grounds, including where Marketo might be a fit in the enterprise architecture and where it might be overused. Finally, they analyze many data points to help understand the core strengths and weaknesses of Marketo.Background Soundtrack: Away From You – Mauro SommFor more information on growth strategies for SMBs using ERP and digital transformation, visit our community at wbs.rocks or elevatiq.com. To ensure that you never miss an episode of the WBS podcast, subscribe on your favorite podcasting platform.

For B2B marketers, reaching the right decision-makers can feel like searching for a needle in a haystack. Traditional lead generation tactics often produce high volumes of low-quality leads that rarely convert, while valuable opportunities slip through the cracks. Account-based marketing (ABM) flips this model on its head by focusing your resources on a carefully selected …

Thank you, Martin, for going back in time with The Sales Evangelist podcast. Thanks to him, we're going back to episode 1177 where I deep-dived into why leads are creating more work for us.In this episode, I share why many small organizations struggle with their inbound sales and how to fix it. The challenge is always deciding who should follow up on them and how to do it effectively.The Sales TeamAssume that a sales team is composed of three people: the marketing person who does almost everything, the junior assistant who helps with content creation, and the outsourced person who does the marketing strategies. Among the three, who should follow-up the lead? Not all leads are created equal. This means that before deciding who will follow up the lead, the lead should be evaluated first.You don't want your salesperson pitching to a lead that in the end would go to another competitor.Do a Pre-QualificationDo a pre-qualification in your organization to know if the people you are going to have the conversation with are ready to consider the deal. Set a benchmark and rules for what you consider a marketing quantifiable lead. Consider the following questions: What is considered a sales qualified lead?What is the KPI of your organization? How many new inbound leads do you want to get per quarter/per month?How much money do you want to generate from those leads?The answers to those questions will lead you to your ideal customer. It would also help you identify the triggers that qualify them to be a marketing quantifiable lead and a sales qualified lead. The work is far more efficient because when a lead comes in, your salespeople can vet them and follow the pre-qualification factors you've set to see if the lead can generate new business for the organization. This is also helpful in maintaining your current customers. Create a SystemCreate a system to efficiently manage the workload. The marketing team can do the pre-qualification to increase the odds of the lead being converted into something real. Whenever a lead comes in, let marketing take a look at it and check the website and the title of the person. Then let the intern or junior marketing rep take over the other tasks like looking into LinkedIn, HubSpot, Marketo, or other platforms you have to find the data that you can transfer into your CRM. Marketing can help fix the problem of having to go back to the beginning of the funnel and pre-qualify the leads again because they're not yet ready at the moment. Website Leads MatterThe sales team sometimes takes for granted the leads that they didn't hunt for. A good example is leads coming in from the websites. It is disheartening when a sales rep doesn't take that into consideration when a lead comes in via the website. Whenever an inbound lead comes in, it is best to use your flow process to follow-up particular prospects. It should be written and put in your company's playbook so that everyone can read it and use it with every inbound lead that comes in.Follow-up Right Away A stat from insidesales.com said that a lead that's contacted within five minutes is 100 times more likely to convert than leads that are followed-up 90 minutes later.When a lead comes in, follow up right away. You're more likely to convert than if you wait. The sales team can take a quick visit to the person's website, check their LinkedIn profile, and the pages they've visited on your site. Focus On The People That...

Chandar Pattabhiram, marketing maestro and Chief Go-to-Market Officer at Workato, shares his expertise on the agentic economy and the revolutionary impact of AI on go-to-market strategies.• The rise of AI agents brings productivity without pause, enabling organizations to shift from reactive to proactive approaches• Current AI implementation remains largely experimental and edge-focused rather than addressing core business processes• Workato's approach focuses on cross-functional processes versus siloed applications to prevent agent sprawl• Traditional go-to-market principles still apply – win more, win bigger, win faster – but AI provides unprecedented efficiency• Enterprise context is crucial for AI effectiveness – it's not just about LLMs but Enterprise Learning Models (ELMs)• AI enhances storytelling capabilities but emotional connection remains essential – "heart to head, not head to heart"• Success requires identifying your "onlyness" and selling to markets that value your unique differentiation• Bring philosophies rather than playbooks when moving between companies• Balance technical understanding with human connection – "CTFO: chill the F out"• Life ultimately comes down to health, experiences, and relationships (H-E-R)Ready to master go-to-market strategy in the AI era? Chandar Pattabhiram reveals the secrets behind scaling companies into billion-dollar powerhouses:

Brand isn't just a creative exercise — it's a product that drives ROI.Back for his third appearance on the Focus on Brand podcast, Sergio Claudio (ex-Adobe, Marketo, Zuora) joins us to challenge how organizations perceive and measure creativity. Is it just a cost center—or a powerful growth engine?In this episode, Sergio unpacks how creative work can (and should) drive business outcomes. From C-suite blockers to strategic alignment, we cover how to elevate creative teams from "make it pretty" to make it perform.What we cover:

Is it possible that a whole generation of consent-management solutions built for the EU-driven opt-in world are unsuitable for the opt-out scenario predominant in the US? How are DPOs and AI Governance professionals to deal with “shadow AI” and “shadow IT”?  Daniel Barber is DataGrail's CEO and co-founder. Prior to DataGrail Daniel led revenue teams at DocuSign, Datanyze (acquired by ZoomInfo), ToutApp (acquired by Marketo) and Responsys (acquired by Oracle). He also advises several high-growth startups. References: Daniel Barber on LinkedIn Unveiling DataGrail's 2024 Data Privacy Trends Report: The Time Data Subject Requests Surged 246% in Two Years DataGrail Privacy Inspector (Chrome Web Store) Max Anderson (Ketch): Privacy Tech spotlight I – the future of CMPs, value vs. hype in privacy compliance SaaS (Masters of Privacy, April 2025)

The CEO's Strategic Growth Edge: A Go-To-Market System That Scales“You don't need more leads—you need clarity. Clarity on where your business can grow the most, the fastest, and at the highest margin. That's what a real go-to-market system delivers. It's not about volume anymore—it's about alignment, focus, and making sure every team—marketing, sales, and customer success—is executing toward the same outcome. That's how CEOs scale with confidence.” That's a quote from Sangram Vajre, and a sneak peek at today's episode.Welcome to Revenue Boost: A Marketing Podcast. I'm your host, Kerry Curran—revenue growth expert, industry analyst, and relentless advocate for turning marketing into a revenue engine. Each episode, we bring you the strategies, insights, and conversations that help drive your revenue growth. So search for Revenue Boost in your favorite podcast directory and hit subscribe to stay ahead of the game.In The CEO's Strategic Growth Edge: A Go-to-Market System That Scales, I'm joined by bestselling author and GTM expert Sangram Vajre to discuss why go-to-market isn't a marketing tactic—it's a CEO-level growth system. In this episode, you'll learn the three phases every business must navigate to scale, why alignment beats activity in every growth stage, how CEOs can drive clarity, trust, and margin-focused decisions across teams, and why AI is only a threat if you're still riding the demand-gen horse.If you're a growth-minded CEO or exec, this episode gives you the roadmap and the mindset to scale faster, smarter, and stronger. Be sure to listen through to the end, where Sangram shares three key tips—his ultimate advice for any leader ready to level up their go-to-market strategy. Let's go!Kerry Curran, RBMA (00:00.77)So welcome, Sangram. Please introduce yourself and share a bit about your background and expertise.Sangram Vajre (00:06.992)Well, at the highest level, I feel like I've had the opportunity to be in the B2B space for the last two decades and have had a front-row seat to categories that have shaped how we think about go-to-market. I ran marketing at Pardot. We were acquired by ExactTarget and then Salesforce—that was a $2.7 billion acquisition. It was a huge shift in mindset, going from a $10 million company to a $10 billion one, and I learned a lot.I became a student of go-to-market, if you will. That was in the marketing automation space. Then I launched a company called Terminus, which has been acquired twice now. Along the way, I've written three books. The one we're going to talk a lot about is MOVE, which became a Wall Street Journal bestseller. That book has created a lot of opportunities and work for us.I walked into writing this book, Kerry, thinking I knew go-to-market because I had two $100M+ exits. But I walked out of the process a student of go-to-market because I learned so much. Writing it forced me to talk to folks like Brian Halligan, the CEO of HubSpot, and partners at VC firms who have seen 200 exits—not just the three I've experienced.It really expanded my vision. Now I lead a company called Go-To-Market Partners. We're a research and advisory firm focused on helping companies understand who owns go-to-market and how to run it at a transformational level. Our clients are primarily CEOs and executive teams. That's our focus.Kerry Curran, RBMA (01:46.094)Excellent. Well, I'm very excited to dive in. I first saw you speak at Inbound last fall, and what really resonated with me was the shift from just an ABM program to a company-wide GTM program—one that includes everything from problem-market fit all the way to customer success, loyalty, and retention. Really making GTM the core of revenue growth.So I'd love for you to dive in and share that framework and background.Sangram Vajre (02:23.224)Yeah. And by the way, for people who've never attended Inbound—you should. I've spoken there for eight years straight and always try to bring new ideas. Each year, they keep giving me more opportunities—from main stage to workshops. I think you attended the 90-minute workshop, right? Hopefully it wasn't boring!Kerry Curran, RBMA (02:48.61)Yeah, it was excellent. I love this stuff, so I was taking lots of notes.Sangram Vajre (02:52.814)That was fun. The whole idea was: how can you build your entire go-to-market strategy on a single slide? Now, people might think, “There's no way—you need way more detail.” But it's not about making it complete; it's about making it clear.So everyone can be aligned. For example, in the operating system we've developed, we write research about it every Monday in a newsletter called GTM Monday, read by 175,000 people. The eight pillars are based on the most important questions. And Kerry, I don't know if you'll agree, but I think I've done a disservice for two decades by asking the wrong question.Like, I used to ask, “Where can we grow?”—which sounds smart but is actually foolish. The better question is, “Where can we grow the most, the fastest, the best, at the highest margin?” That's the true business perspective. So the operating system is built around these eight essential questions.If every executive team can align on these—not with certainty, but with clarity—then they can gain a clear understanding of what they're doing, where they're going, who their ICP is, what bets they're making, and which motions to pursue. I've done this over a thousand times with executive teams, helping them build their entire go-to-market strategy on a single slide. And it's like a lightbulb moment for them: “Okay, now I know what bets we're making and how my team is aligned.” It's a beautiful thing.Kerry Curran, RBMA (04:50.988)Yeah, because that's one of the hardest challenges across business strategy and growth: where to invest, where to lean in. So bring us through the questions and framework.Sangram Vajre (05:01.688)Yeah. So the first one is “Where can you grow the most?” The second one is really about what we call the Market Investment Map. I'll give you maybe three or four so people can get an idea. The Market Investment Map is especially useful for companies with more than one product or more than one segment. This is the least used but most valuable framework companies should be using.You might remember from the Inbound talk—I used HubSpot as an example since I was speaking at Inbound. It's interesting because at my last company, Terminus, we acquired five companies in eight years. So we had to learn this process. The Market Investment Map is about matching your best segments to the best products to create the highest-margin offering.If your entire business focuses only on pipeline and revenue—which sounds right—you're actually focused on the wrong things. You may have seen people post on LinkedIn saying, “I generated $10 million in pipeline,” and then a month later, they're laid off. Why? Because that pipeline didn't matter. It might have been general pipeline, but if you looked at pipeline within your ICP—the customers your company really needs to close, retain, and expand—it might have only been half a million. That's not enough to sustain growth or justify your role.So, understanding the business is critical. It's not just about understanding marketing skills like demand gen, content, or design. Those are table stakes. You need to understand the business of marketing—how the financials work, how to drive revenue, and how to say, “Yeah, we generated $10 million in pipeline, but only half a million was within ICP, so it won't convert or drive the margin we need.” That level of EQ and IQ is what leaders need today.Our go-to-market operating system goes deep into areas like this.Kerry Curran, RBMA (07:31.022)And I love the alignment with the ICP. I'm sure you'll get deeper into that. I also know you talk about getting rid of MQLs because the real focus should be on getting closer to the ICP—on who's actually going to drive revenue.Sangram Vajre (07:45.892)Yeah. John Miller, a good friend who co-founded Marketo, has been writing about this too. I was the CMO of Pardot. Then we both built ABM companies—I built Terminus; he built Engagio, which is now part of Demandbase. We've been evangelizing the idea of efficient marketing machines for the last two decades.We're coming full circle now. That approach made sense in the “growth at all costs” era. But in this “efficient growth” era, everything can be measured. The dark funnel is real. AI can now accelerate your team's output and throughput. So we have to go back to first principles—what do your customers really want?I was in a discussion yesterday with executives and middle managers, and the topic of AI came up. Some were worried it would take their jobs. And I said, “Yes, it absolutely will—and it should.” I gave the example I wrote about recently: imagine you were the best horseman, with saddles, barns, and a generational business built around horses. Then Henry Ford comes along with four wheels. You just lost your job—not because you were bad, but because you got infatuated with the horse, not with your customer's need to get from point A to point B.Horses did that—it was better than walking. But then came cars, trains, airplanes. Business evolves. If you focus on your customers' needs—better, faster, cheaper—you'll always be excited about innovation rather than afraid of it. So yes, AI will replace anyone who stays on their horse. If you're riding the demand gen horse or relying only on content creation, a lot is going to change. Get off the horse, refocus on customer needs, and figure out how to move your business forward.Kerry Curran, RBMA (10:21.708)Yeah. So talk a bit about honing in on the ICP. I know in one of the sessions you asked, “Who's your target audience?” And of course, there was one guy in the front row who said, “Everyone,” and we all laughed. But I still hear that all the time. Talk about how important it is, to your point, to know your customer and get obsessed with what they need.Sangram Vajre (10:45.56)Yeah. So the first pillar of the go-to-market operating system is called TRM, or Total Relevant Market. We introduced that in the book MOVE for the first time. It's a departure from TAM—Total Addressable Market—which is what that guy in the front row was referring to during that session. It was epic, and I think he was a sales leader, so it was even funnier in a room full of marketers.But it's true—and real. He was being honest, and I appreciated that. The reality is, we've all been conditioned to focus on more and more—bigger and bigger markets. That makes sense if you have unlimited funds and can raise money. It makes sense if the market is huge and you're just trying to get in and have more people doing outbound.As a matter of fact, a few weeks ago, we did a session where someone said something profound that I'll never forget. He said, “The whole SDR function is a feature bug in the VC model.” That was fascinating—because the whole SDR model was built to get as many leads as possible, assign 22-year-olds to make cold calls, and push them to AEs.We built this because it worked on a spreadsheet. If we generate 1,000 leads, we need 50 callers to convert them. It's math. But nobody really tried to improve it because we had the money. Now we're in a different world. We have clients doing $10–15 million in revenue with five-person teams automating so much.People don't read as many automated emails. My phone filters out robocalls, so I never pick up unless it's someone I know. Non-personalized emails go into a folder I never open. Yet people keep sending thousands of them, thinking it works.For example, I send our GTM Monday newsletter via Substack. It's free for readers, and it's free for me to send—even to 175,000 people. Meanwhile, marketers spend thousands every time they email their list using legacy tools. Why? Because these people haven't opted in to be part of the journey the way Substack subscribers have.The market has changed. Buying big marketing automation tools for $100,000 is going to change drastically. Fractional leaders and agencies will thrive because what CEOs really need is people like you—and frameworks like a go-to-market operating system—to guide them. You and I have the gray hair and battle scars to prove it. What matters now is using a modern framework, implementing it, and measuring outcomes differently.Kerry Curran, RBMA (14:08.11)Yeah, you bring up such a valid point. In so many of my conversations, I see the same thing. It's been a sales-led growth strategy for years. Investments went to sales—more BDRs, more cold emails, more tech stack partners.Even as I was starting my consultancy, I'd talk to partners or prospects who'd say, “Well, we just hired more salespeople. We want to see how that goes.” But to your point, without the foundational framework—without targeting the right audience—you're just spinning your wheels on volume.Sangram Vajre (15:06.318)Exactly. One area we emphasize in our go-to-market operating system is differentiation. Everyone's doing the same thing. Let me give you an example. Last week, I looked at a startup's email tool that reads your emails and drafts responses automatically. Super interesting. I use Superhuman for email.Two days later, Superhuman sent an email saying they'd launched the exact same feature. So this startup spent time and money building a feature, and Superhuman—already with a huge user base—replicated and launched it instantly. That startup is out of business.With AI, product development is lightning fast. So product is no longer your differentiator. Your differentiation now is how you tell your story, how quickly you grab attention, how well you build and maintain a community. That becomes your moat. Those first principles matter more than ever. Product is just table stakes now.Kerry Curran, RBMA (16:33.878)Right. And connecting that to your marketing strategy, your communication, your messaging—it also sets up your sales team to close faster. By the time a prospect talks to a rep, your marketing has already educated them on your differentiation. So talk more about the stages and what companies need to keep in mind when applying your go-to-market framework.Sangram Vajre (17:07.482)One of the things we mention in the book—and go really deep into in our operating system—is this 3P format: Problem-Market Fit, Product-Market Fit, and Platform-Market Fit. We believe these are the three core stages of a business. I experienced them firsthand at Pardot, Salesforce, and Terminus through multiple acquisitions.If you remember, I always talk about the “squiggly line,” because no company grows up and to the right in a straight line. If you look at daily, weekly, or monthly insights, there are dips—just like a stock market chart. So the squiggly line shows you can go from Problem to Product, but you'll experience a dip. That's normal and natural. Same thing when you go from Product to Platform—you hit a dip. Those dips are what we call the “valleys of death.”Some companies overcome those valleys and cross the chasm, and others don't. Why? Because at those points, they discover they can market and sell, but they can't deliver. Or maybe they can deliver, but they can't renew. Or maybe they can renew but not expand. Each gap becomes a value to fix in the system.And it's hard. I've gone from $5 million to $10 million to $15 million, all the way to $100 million in revenue—and every 5 to 10 million increment brings a new set of challenges. You think you've got it figured out, and then you don't—because everything else has to change with scale.I'll never forget one company I was on the board of—unfortunately, it didn't make it. The CEO was upset because they were doing $20 million in revenue but didn't get the valuation they wanted. Meanwhile, a competitor doing only $5 million in revenue in the same space got a $500 million valuation. Why? Because the $20M company was doing tons of customization—still stuck in Problem-Market Fit. The $5M company had reached Product-Market Fit and was far more efficient. Their operational costs were lower, and their NRR was over 120%.If you've read some of my research, you know I'm all in on NRR—Net Revenue Retention—as the #1 metric. If you get NRR above 120%, you'll double your revenue in 3.8 years without adding a single new customer. That's what executives should focus on.That's why we say the CEO owns go-to-market. All our research shows that if the CEO doesn't own it, you'll have a really hard time scaling.Kerry Curran, RBMA (20:23.992)That makes so much sense, because everything you're talking about—while it includes marketing functions—is really business strategy. It needs to be driven top-down. It has to be the North Star the whole company is paddling toward.I've been in organizations where that's not the case. And as you said, leadership has to have the knowledge and strategic awareness to navigate those pivots—those valleys of death. So talk about how hard it is to bring new frameworks into an organization and the change management that comes with that. As you evangelize the idea that the CEO owns GTM, what's resonating most with them?Sangram Vajre (21:26.456)Great question. First of all, CEOs who get it—they love it. The people who struggle most are actually CMOs and CROs because they feel like they should be the ones owning go-to-market. And while their input is critical, they can't own it entirely.In all our advisory work, Kerry, we mandate two things:The CEO must be in the room. We won't do an engagement without that. The executive team must be involved. We don't do one-on-one coaching—because transformation happens in teams.People often get it wrong. They think, “We need better ICP targeting, so that's marketing's job.” Or, “We need pipeline acceleration—let sales figure that out.” Or, “We have a retention issue—fire the CS team.” No. The problem isn't a department issue—it's a process and team issue.The CEO is the most incentivized person to bring clarity, alignment, and trust—the three pillars of our GTM operating system. They're the ones sitting in all the one-on-one meetings, burning out from the lack of alignment. The challenge is most CEOs don't know what it means to own GTM. It feels overwhelming.So we help them reframe that. Owning doesn't mean running GTM. It means orchestrating clarity, alignment, and trust. Every meeting they lead should advance one of those. That's the job. When the ICP is agreed upon, marketing should be excited to generate leads for it. Sales should be eager to follow up. CS should be relieved they're not getting misaligned customers. That's leadership. And there's no one more suited—or incentivized—to lead that than the CEO.Kerry Curran, RBMA (24:08.11)Absolutely. And the CFO plays a key role too—holding the purse strings, understanding where the investments should go.Sangram Vajre (24:20.622)Yes. In fact, in the book and in our research, we emphasize the importance of RevOps—especially once a company reaches Product-Market Fit and moves toward Platform-Market Fit.If you're operating across multiple products, segments, geographies, or using multiple GTM motions, the RevOps leader—who often reports to the CFO or CEO—becomes critical. I'd say they're the second most important person in the company from a strategy standpoint.Why? Because they're the only ones who can look at the whole picture and say, “We don't need to spend more on marketing; we need to fix the sales process.” A marketing leader won't say that. A sales leader won't say that. You need someone who can objectively assess where the real bottleneck is.Kerry Curran, RBMA (25:17.836)Yeah, that definitely makes so much sense. Are there other areas—maybe below the executive team—that help educate the company from a change management perspective to gain buy-in? Or is it really a company-wide change?Sangram Vajre (25:33.742)Yeah, you mentioned ABM earlier. Having written a few books on ABM and building Terminus, we've seen thousands of companies go through transformation. We now have over 70,000 students who've gone through our courses. I love getting feedback.What's interesting is that ABM has been great for aligning sales and marketing—but it hasn't transformed the company. Go-to-market is not a marketing or sales strategy. It's a business strategy. It has to bring in CS, product, finance—everyone.Where companies often fail is by looking at go-to-market too narrowly—like it's just a product launch or a sales campaign. That's way too myopic. Those companies burn a lot of cash.At the layer below the executive team, it gets harder because GTM is fundamentally a leadership-driven initiative. An SDR, AE, or director of marketing typically doesn't have the incentive—or business context—to drive GTM change. But they should get familiar with it.That's why we created the GTM Operating System certification. Hundreds of professionals have gone through it—including you! And now people are bringing those frameworks into leadership meetings.They'll say, “Hey, let's pull up the 15 GTM problems and see where we're stuck.” Or, “Let's revisit the 3 Ps—where are we today?” Or use one of the assessments. It's pretty cool to see it in action.Kerry Curran, RBMA (27:35.758)Yeah, and it's extremely valuable. I love that it's a tool that helps drive company-wide buy-in and educates the people responsible for the actions. So you've shared so many great frameworks and recommendations. For those listening, what's the first step to get started? What would you recommend to someone who's thinking, “Okay, I love all of this—I need to start shifting my organization”?Sangram Vajre (28:09.082)First, you have to really understand the definition of go-to-market. It's a transformational process—not a one-and-done. It's not something you define at an offsite and then forget. It's not owned by pirates. It's iterative. It happens every day.Second, the CEO has to be fully bought in. If they don't own it, GTM will run them. If you're a CEO and you feel overwhelmed, that's usually why—you're running go-to-market, not owning it.Third, business transformation happens in teams. If you try to build a GTM strategy in a silo—as a marketer, for example—it will fail. The best strategies never see the light of day because the team isn't behind them. In GTM, alignment matters more than being right.Kerry Curran, RBMA (29:27.982)Excellent. I love this so much. Thank you! How can people find you and learn more about the GTM Partners certification and your book?Sangram Vajre (29:37.476)You can go to gtmpartners.com to get the certification. Thousands of people are going through it, and we're constantly adding new content. We're about to launch Go-To-Market University to add even more courses.We also created the MOVE Book Companion, because we're actually selling more books now than when it first came out three years ago—which is crazy!Then there's GTM Monday, our research newsletter that 175,000 people read every week. Our goal is to keep building new frameworks and sharing what's possible. Things are changing so fast—AI, GTM tech, everything. But first principles still apply. That's why frameworks matter more than ever.You can't just ask ChatGPT to “give me a go-to-market strategy” and expect it to work. It might give you something beautifully written, but it won't help you make money. You need frameworks, team alignment, and process discipline.And I post about this every day on LinkedIn—so follow me there too!Kerry Curran, RBMA (30:54.988)Excellent. Well, thank you so much. This has been a great conversation, and I highly recommend the book and the certification to everyone. We'll include all the links in the show notes.Thank you, Sangram, for joining us today!Sangram Vajre (31:09.284)Kerry, you're a fantastic host. Thank you for having me.Kerry Curran, RBMA (31:11.854)Thank you very much.Thanks for tuning in to Revenue Boost: A Marketing Podcast. I hope today's conversation sparked some new ideas and challenged the way you think about how your organization approaches go-to-market and revenue growth strategy. If you're serious about turning marketing into a true revenue driver, this is just the beginning. We've got more insightful conversations, expert guests, and actionable strategies coming your way—so search for us in your favorite podcast directory and hit subscribe.And hey, if this episode brought you value, please share it with a colleague or leave a quick review. It helps more revenue-minded leaders like you find our show. Until next time, I'm Kerry Curran—helping you connect marketing to growth, one episode at a time. See you soon.

Would you like access to our advanced agency training for FREE? https://www.agencymastery360.com/training Have you ever turned to freelancers to grow your agency's capabilities? What about using fractional support once you realized you couldn't do everything as the founder and face of the agency? What if the key to sustainable growth isn't building a massive in-house team, but leveraging the right fractional support at the right time? Today's guests are two agency owners who turned a modest freelance setup into a thriving multimillion-dollar business—largely through referrals and the strength of their personal networks. They share how a flexible team of contractors became their secret weapon, offering the agility to scale without the overhead of a traditional agency structure. Tune in to learn how former competitors found a way to build a successful collaboration and why fractional support was a big part of their operation from the start. Sydney Mulligan and Lauren Aquilino are the co-founders of Emmie Collective, a for-hire network of elite independent & freelance marketing, sales, and revops consultants with big tech energy. They share their journey of entrepreneurship, reflect on their backgrounds as former competitors in the marketing industry, and the bond that brought them together. Sydney also recounts her experience of being laid off while on maternity leave, which sparked the idea for Emmie Collective while Lauren discusses her transition from freelancing to building a business as demand for her services grew. In this episode, we'll discuss: Why the fractional model was the best option for bootstrapping an agency. When should the agency owners stop being the face of the agency? External funding vs. control in agency growth.  Subscribe Apple | Spotify | iHeart Radio Sponsors and Resources E2M Solutions: Today's episode of the Smart Agency Masterclass is sponsored by E2M Solutions, a web design, and development agency that has provided white-label services for the past 10 years to agencies all over the world. Check out e2msolutions.com/smartagency and get 10% off for the first three months of service. When Competitors Become Co-Founders Before forming their partnership, Sydney and Lauren worked at competing agencies while also participating in Marketo's customer champion program. Their paths diverged when both eventually left their respective agencies—Lauren to pursue freelance work, initially planning for just 10 hours weekly during summer to rest after quitting her job. However, her freelance business quickly expanded beyond expectations, growing to 20 hours weekly and requiring additional contractor support. Meanwhile, Sydney had taken an in-house position but faced an unexpected setback when she was laid off during her maternity leave. As she navigated the job interview process, she began conversations with Lauren, who was contemplating transforming her freelance operation into a formal business. Lauren recognized Sydney as a valuable potential partner—in fact, the only person she would consider building a business with. After discussing their business vision, they decided it was time to meet face-to-face. Their first in-person meeting in Florida became what they jokingly refer to as their "speed dating" session. During this three-day encounter, they exchanged ideas and developed business plans while Sydney cared for her six-week-old baby. The meeting proved decisive—by the time they both landed back home, they had confirmed their mutual desire to build an agency together. Why the Fractional Model Is Best for Bootstraping an Agency Their participation in the customer champion program helped Sydney and Lauren establish strong reputations within a specialized niche market. With this foundation, they were able to launch their agency business with a strong base of referral clients. One unexpected advantage they discovered was the relative ease of attracting consultants eager to work with their new agency. Anticipating potential staffing challenges typical for startups, they had proactively designed their business model around freelancers and contractors. This strategy allowed them to sidestep the common industry pressure of requiring employees to meet specific billable hour quotas. Instead, freelancers had the flexibility to determine their own workload and schedules. To this day they continue to work with consultants, firmly believing that fractional support provides clients with optimal access to senior specialized expertise. By leveraging fractional experts, their agency effectively addresses specific client challenges, enhances operational efficiency, and frees internal resources to focus on strategic growth initiatives. When Should the Founders Stop Being the Face of the Agency? Balancing Growth and Client Relationships Sydney and Lauren's agency growth eventually confronted them with the challenge of hitting the limit on what they could do by themselves. With the agency growing, more and more clients and consultants coming in, and traveling for events, it just got to be too much. Sydney recalls a particularly stressful period when she felt overwhelmed, unable to keep track of their growing client base and the myriad responsibilities that came with it. They recognized they could no longer manage everything alone. When an agency owner clings to control it causes issues with bottlenecking, even become an operational issue and their agency's biggest profit leak. For Sydney and Lauren, was time for a change and the first crucial step was hiring a fractional account manager to ensure there was someone else keeping track of every client. This not only alleviated some of the burdens on Sydney but also allowed them to focus on strategic growth rather than getting bogged down in day-to-day operations. It's not an easy shift to make, and quite tricky for Sydney and Lauren, who built the agency on the back of their own networks and therefore are still the face of it. They continue to wrestle with how much to pull back, risking that clients feel they no longer interact with them. For those facing similar challenges, it's worth noting that even prominent agency leaders like Gary Vaynerchuk maintain their status as organizational figureheads while having minimal involvement in daily operations. This successful transition typically requires thoroughly training team members in core agency values to ensure consistent decision-making and actively promoting team capabilities to clients—emphasizing that a dedicated team provides superior service compared to founder-only support. External Funding vs. Control in Agency Growth After bootstrapping their business, Sydney and Lauren now face the question of whether or not to take on funding to continue to scale. While they recognize the potential advantages that investment capital could bring—accelerated expansion and resources for recruiting top talent—they also remain cautious about the significant tradeoffs involved. Most of all, they worry about the fundamental shift from being independent business owners to essentially working for investors since "once you start raising money, you'll always be raising money"—with a continuous cycle of accountability to external stakeholders. For the time being, they continue to prioritize maintaining complete control over their growth trajectory, preferring the stability and autonomy of their current approach even if it means potentially slower expansion. Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset? Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our Agency Blueprint. Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success.

Digital Impact and the Human Element of AI-Driven Transformation: Insights from Steve Lucas

“AI can accelerate everything, but if you don't have a clear strategy and alignment across leadership, you're just scaling inefficiency faster. Before you invest in tools or systems, you need to know why they matter, how you'll measure impact, and whether your organization is built to move fast enough to see results.” That's a quote from Mark Goloboy and a sneak peek at today's episode.Welcome to Revenue Boost, A Marketing Podcast. I'm your host, Kerry Curran—revenue growth expert, industry analyst, and relentless advocate for turning marketing into a revenue engine. Each episode, we bring you the strategies, insights, and conversations that help drive your revenue growth. Search for Revenue Boost in your favorite podcast directory and hit subscribe to stay ahead of the game.In a world where AI is evolving faster than your org chart, how do you build a marketing engine that's both smart and scalable? In From Strategy to Speed: Building a Modern Marketing Engine with AI, I sat down with Mark Goloboy, founder of Market Growth Consulting. We unpack how AI is transforming B2B marketing—and why strategy still comes first.From RAG pipelines and LLM optimization to lean team structures and rapid execution, Mark shares what today's business leaders need to know to move fast, stay aligned, and drive measurable growth. If you're tired of the AI hype and ready for more practical ways to accelerate performance, this one's for you.Be sure to listen through to the end, where Mark shares what you need to do to get started building your AI marketing engine today. Let's go!Kerry Curran, RBMA (00:01.359)So welcome, Mark. Please introduce yourself and share your background and expertise.Mark Goloboy (00:07.502)Excellent. Thank you, Kerry, for having me. Mark Goloboy, I'm the founder and CEO of Market Growth Consulting. We provide a variety of services to everything from small businesses to public companies. Our clients range from a private manufacturer north of Boston to global public companies.My background is on the sales-facing side of marketing. I've been the head of demand gen, marketing operations, and marketing analytics as I grew into marketing leadership. About two and a half years ago, I went out on my own to work directly with CEOs to fill in marketing gaps.At smaller companies, we place fractional CMOs and heads of demand gen to lead marketing, filling in subcontractors and agencies to execute. At larger companies, we run projects covering everything from marketing strategy, org strategy, budgeting, go-to-market strategy, and building out systems—we're currently doing a HubSpot to Salesforce and Marketo migration. We also do executive staffing, placing directors through CMOs either as temp-to-perm so clients can try before they buy, or through contingent staffing where if we find the right person, the client hires them for their future marketing leadership.Kerry Curran, RBMA (01:37.057)Excellent. Thank you, Mark. You've seen it all and are still very involved across business challenges and needs from a marketing, demand gen, and go-to-market perspective. There are lots of hot topics we could cover, but what are you hearing the most from your clients today? What's hottest for them?Mark Goloboy (02:03.662)Marketing really grew in 2022 and 2023 in terms of department size. But I think a lot of us felt it—venture-backed companies especially, but really everyone—wanted to get smaller again in 2023 and 2024. That was a painful adjustment across the industry. Now, as we move through 2024 into 2025, everyone is focused on:How do we do more with less? How do we think about fractional or contract roles in areas we never would have previously?That extends into AI-driven marketing, where every leader is looking to be more efficient and scale faster and smarter by using tools that take over some of the marketing workload. The real challenge now for marketing leaders is finding the balance between the people they need to hire, the money they need to spend, and where AI can make them faster, smarter, and more scalable—while still needing human review and strategic oversight.Kerry Curran, RBMA (03:38.947)Yeah, I agree. And you see so many emerging tools. I think if you search for AI in MarTech today, there's been a huge increase in companies claiming to offer something new or different. But AI actually means a lot of different things. You and I were talking earlier about how important it is to dig into the formula and structure behind what's labeled "AI." What are you seeing from that perspective?Mark Goloboy (04:15.054)Well, I think the big challenge, for me at least—I'm a solo entrepreneur running my own business with just myself and no employees—is figuring out how to work efficiently while wearing many hats.I use subcontractors who are experts at what they do, and I hire based on likeability and capability because my clients will keep rehiring me if they like who I bring them and the work gets done right.But because I'm a solo operator, I have to maximize my own productivity. So every day, I start by looking at what's on my plate and ask: "Could AI help me do this faster, better, or more scalably?"Whether it's a deliverable, a proposal, or a project plan, I always pause and think about how AI can be part of the solution—even if it's just for my internal work, not necessarily client-facing marketing.Kerry Curran, RBMA (05:31.545)Thank you.Mark Goloboy (05:43.870)Each of the major frontier models—OpenAI, Google Gemini, Claude, and others—are developing rapidly. Every time I try something, it's a little different, and the outputs are constantly improving.Last week, I had a meeting with a prospect using an ABM tool I had never heard of. I wanted to appear knowledgeable, so I asked OpenAI to compare it to Sixth Sense and Demandbase, which I know well.Within a minute, it gave me four pages of detailed research on each tool, plus a comparison grid. That would have taken a junior marketer on my team two months to produce. That's how fast this technology is evolving.Kerry Curran, RBMA (06:57.549)Yes, same for me. There's so much you can do faster now. You mentioned video editing, and I recently used napkin.ai to turn raw text into beautiful slides. It's such a game-changer for solo entrepreneurs.Mark Goloboy (07:27.790)Exactly. Externally, too, clients come to us with needs, and it's up to us to creatively think: "How can we use AI to deliver this better?"Last year, we trained an AI model to write like a PhD psychologist who had run a department at Columbia Med. Using her writing, interviews, and videos, we trained Google Gemini to mimic her voice—and she couldn't tell which blog posts were hers versus AI-generated.This was mid-2024, when people still said AI content was bland. But we were producing PhD-level work that passed her own review.Kerry Curran, RBMA (08:39.865)Yeah, it's pretty incredible. It helps us do a lot more and get a lot more out of our hours and days—getting smarter and more effective. What are some of the other ways or tools you've developed for your clients to help them with their demand gen and other aspects of business?Mark Goloboy (09:00.270)Yeah, so I joke with my clients that I didn't know what the letters RAG meant in December—but now I do. It stands for Retrieval Augmented Generation. That's about developing agentic pipelines to connect your internal data sources—whether documents, databases, or internal systems—to the large language models (LLMs), so you can move information between them and generate outputs informed not just by public data, but by your own proprietary data.Right now, we're building RAG agentic pipelines for a PR firm, for example. Their CEO prioritized the three use cases that would save their account managers the most time:Meeting scheduling and rescheduling, which wastes hours every week. Contract review, since they're doing placements in major media outlets and need to review hundreds of contracts a month. Media monitoring, summarizing brand mentions across the web and sending daily summaries to clients—something that takes an hour per client per day. By automating these processes, they save massive amounts of time, and as they grow, they don't need to hire as many new account managers.Kerry Curran, RBMA (10:58.467)Yes, that's super valuable. I love that it allows them to free up time to be more strategic instead of bogged down in busywork. So what are some of the steps required for someone to set this up? How did you learn more about creating these pipelines and the RAG system?Mark Goloboy (11:20.398)There are some really good places to learn. The first one I always recommend is the Marketing AI Institute. Paul Roetzer is the founder, and I learn the most from him.Paul and his content lead put out a one-hour podcast every week that breaks down everything that's changed in AI since the last episode. It's incredibly rich information. I usually listen at 1.5x speed and get through it in 40 minutes. I don't care about every topic, but I hear what matters and know where to dive deeper.Beyond that, I follow a few amazing marketers—Liza Adams, Nicole Leffer, and Andy Crestodina—who are brilliant at testing new things and sharing what works. They save me countless hours of trial and error.Kerry Curran, RBMA (12:41.133)Thank you—we'll be sure to include all of those in the show notes as well. One thing you mentioned was that the podcast covers what's changed in just the past week. AI is changing so fast. What should people keep in mind when they're building these tools or leveraging different sources?Mark Goloboy (13:01.336)I'm used to building very permanent, robust systems—CRM, marketing automation, ABM platforms—that are meant to deliver value for years. But with AI, we have to accept that some development is disposable.It's crucial to prioritize effort. We help clients understand: we're not building something that will last 5 years. Some of the code we build today might be obsolete in 6–12 months.For example, OpenAI just launched a new pipeline tool that replaced the one we were using. If we had spent six months building on the old system, it would already be outdated.So we advise clients: build for today's ROI and be ready to pivot constantly. If you're rigid, you'll miss the opportunity.Kerry Curran, RBMA (14:47.747)Yeah, it made me think about how, in a lot of organizations, it takes so long just to get buy-in and approvals to start using new tools. It's a whole culture and mindset shift—especially for marketing leaders.Mark Goloboy (15:07.788)Exactly. I couldn't imagine a one-year approval cycle for an AI project. By the time you'd get sign-off, the tools would have changed and you'd have to start over.You need faster review and approval cycles. Otherwise, AI-driven innovation simply won't be possible.Kerry Curran, RBMA (15:29.475)Yes, definitely. And that's another benefit of bringing someone like you in—you're well-versed in what's changing, and you have the curiosity and experience to guide them through it.Mark Goloboy (15:45.954)Exactly.Kerry Curran, RBMA (15:47.407)So for people listening who want to get started—maybe building custom pipelines or just leveraging AI more—what are the foundations they need to have in place?Mark Goloboy (16:14.830)The most important thing is a good strategy.When we come into companies, often because of turnover—whether it's the CRO, CMO, CEO—they don't have strong alignment on strategy anymore. If you don't have a clear strategy that demands an investment, and you don't know how you'll measure the value of what you're building, you're setting yourself up for failure.So we always start at the strategic level first.We also move fast. If you want a slow project, there are large consulting firms that are happy to take years and millions of dollars. That's not us. We think in three- to six-month project cycles—then we operate and optimize from there.We want to move quickly and get you results now, not years down the road.Kerry Curran, RBMA (18:29.229)That's such an important point. And it ties back to so many of the themes we talk about on this podcast—internal alignment, clear business goals, and unified execution across the organization.One of the tools you mentioned that I think is really fascinating helps address the trend of AI tools becoming new search engines. Can you talk about how you're helping your clients optimize for that?Mark Goloboy (19:19.950)Absolutely. Most of my clients are B2B. And historically, Google was how people found solutions. You wrote your content for Google—end of story.But now, with ChatGPT and other LLMs, people are searching inside AI to get answers. It's shifting fast—from 80/20 Google to maybe 50/50 Google/LLMs within a few years.We partnered with a tool called Brand Luminaire. It analyzes how LLMs like Gemini, Claude, and ChatGPT surface information about your brand and your competitors.Critically, it shows you what sources the LLMs are pulling from. That means you know where to focus your writing, PR, and SEO efforts—not just for Google, but for the LLMs too.It's a massive shift. Brands that don't adapt will lose mindshare at the point of research and decision-making.Kerry Curran, RBMA (22:06.307)That's excellent. It's something all brands are going to need to prioritize as search behavior expands beyond just Google.So this has been great, Mark. Thank you so much for sharing so many practical insights and tools. For people who want to get in touch with you and learn more about your services, where should they go?Mark Goloboy (22:29.454)They can email me directly at mark@marketgrowthconsulting.com—I'm very functional with my branding: market growth consulting is what I do!Or you can find me on LinkedIn—I'm easy to find with my unique last name.Kerry Curran, RBMA (22:46.541)Awesome. We'll put that in the show notes too. Thank you again, Mark, for being here and sharing so much of your expertise.Mark Goloboy (22:55.064)Thank you so much for having me, Kerry.Kerry Curran, RBMA (22:57.071)Thank you.Thanks for tuning in to Revenue Boost: A Marketing Podcast. I hope today's conversation sparked some new ideas and challenged the way you think about how to incorporate AI into your marketing strategy and initiatives.If you're serious about turning marketing into a true revenue driver, this is just the beginning. We've got more insightful conversation, experts, guests, and actionable strategies coming your way. So search for us in your favorite podcast directory and hit subscribe!And hey, if this episode gave you value, share it with a colleague and leave a quick review. It helps more revenue minded leaders like you find the show. Until next time, I'm Kerry Curran, revenue marketing expert helping you connect marketing to growth one episode at a time. We'll see you soon.

Steve Lucas discusses his book “Digital Impact” and strategies to unlock the true potential of AI. Steve is the CEO of Boomi, a global software company specializing in intelligent integration and automation. He is former CEO at Marketo and has held leadership positions at Adobe, SAP, and Salesforce. Listen for three action items you can use today. Host, Kevin Craine Want to be a guest? DigitalTransformationPodcast.net/guest Want to be a sponsor? DigitalTransformationPodcast.net/sponsor

T.K. Kader, founder of Unstoppable and the original founder of ToutApp (acquired by Marketo), is today's guest. We explore why outbound is far from dead, what the greatest GTM leaders have in common, and TK's three pillars of go-to-market success. Listen in to hear TK's learnings and takes from scaling ToutApp, working at Marketo during its turnaround, and now coaching over 500 founders on GTM strategy.In this episode, you'll learn:The three pillars of GTM success - and why most teams get them wrongHow to leverage AI to make outbound work better than everWhy referrals are the most underutilized GTM channelHow to align product, sales, and marketing for predictable revenue growthFor more from ZI Labs, visit ⁠www.zoominfo.com/labs⁠ Ben on LinkedIn - www.linkedin.com/in/bensalzman Millie on LinkedIn - www.linkedin.com/in/milliebeetham

Would you like access to our advanced agency training for FREE? https://www.agencymastery360.com/training Have overwhelm or frustration ever made you want to sell your agency? When you're burned out, the grass might look greener — but one agency owner learned that it's not. Discover why he sold after just two years plus why the acquisition was dissolved and he grew his original business back to 5X within the next four years. Learn more about his reflections on why his initial burnout came to be, the reasons that partnership failed, and how he managed to rebuild his agency even stronger by surrounding himself with the right people. Alex Polamero is the founder of Ninestone Partners, an agency focused on the middle of the funnel. They build marketing and sales automation systems that help clients scale and effectively nurture prospects to closing. He discuss the evolution of his career, going from solopreneur to building and selling his agency and remaining as an equity partner. Alex also dives into his mindset and reasons behind his agency's sale and the events that led to him taking back ownership of its name and original clients. In this episode, we'll discuss: Selling as a way out of the burnout trap. Cashflow issues and not making payroll.  Lessons after buying back his agency. Subscribe Apple | Spotify | iHeart Radio Sponsors and Resources E2M Solutions: Today's episode of the Smart Agency Masterclass is sponsored by E2M Solutions, a web design, and development agency that has provided white-label services for the past 10 years to agencies all over the world. Check out e2msolutions.com/smartagency and get 10% off for the first three months of service. Building an Agency by Filling the Gap Alex has over 20 years of experience working with CRMs, beginning as an Oracle superuser with an extensive network of contacts and later becoming a Marketo-certified expert managing marketing for a billion-dollar real estate firm. Seven years ago, he took the leap to start his own venture, Ninestone Partners. When he first launched his business, Alex viewed other agencies as competitors, seeing them as rivals in areas like website development and paid advertising. However, years of experience shifted his perspective. Today, his agency operates as a collaborator, working alongside other agencies and specializing in the middle of the funnel—where their expertise truly shines. According to Alex, most people don't know the nuances of every automation system, which one to use in each industry and how to help businesses grow quickly. This knowledge gap is where his team excels, helping businesses grow quickly by leveraging the right automation strategies tailored to their needs. Escaping Burnout by Selling the Agency Two years after starting his agency, Alex had two full-time employees and several contractors, even managing automated marketing solutions for a larger 25-person agency. Despite this success, he found himself overwhelmed and burned out. Looking back, he realizes the root of his struggles was that he hadn't chosen between being a solopreneur—taking most of the profits to fund his lifestyle—or committing to being a true business owner. Straddling both worlds, he continued accepting new projects for quick profits without building the necessary team infrastructure. His fear of hiring and potential failure led to increasingly unsustainable workweeks filled with late nights and weekends. This approach inevitably led to stagnation. Alex faced a classic dilemma: unable to handle more clients alone, yet afraid to bring on additional help. Like many inexperienced business owners, he had initially prioritized money over time and it took years before he learned to value time with his employees, family, and himself. His mindset reflected a common misconception among agency owners: that leadership means outworking everyone else and that constant busyness equates to productivity. Exhausted from this unsustainable approach, Alex ultimately sold his agency in a deal keeping him on as an equity partner. The arrangement promised relief from the administrative and management duties he disliked, allowing him to focus solely on sales. Post-Sale Breakdown: Cashflow Issues and Not Making Payroll The first weeks post-sale were great for Alex. He finally had time for himself and even went on a skiing trip with some friends. However, eight months later, the reality of balancing multiple roles began to take its toll. Juggling his sales responsibilities, equity partnership duties, and technical operations proved far more challenging than he had anticipated. Around this time, Alex and his partners discovered a critical issue: their invoicing process had completely broken down, resulting in six months of unpaid invoices, an oversight that left them without the funds to pay their 25 employees. With no money to cover payroll, Alex was forced to take out a high-interest loan, a decision that weighed heavily on him and his family. It became clear that not everything was going as well as he'd initially hoped. After this, Alex and the other partners reached the conclusion that there were some aspects of running the business in which they just didn't agree. Why Clarity is Key: Growing 5x in Four Years The heart-to-heart with his partners culminated in an offer to buy back his agency. Under the terms of the deal, his partners would retain his equity and any new clients acquired during that year, while Alex regained his previous clients and rights to the Ninestone name. Though he restarted with only half the business he had before the partnership, Alex viewed it as a fresh start. Four years later, his agency had grown to five times its size at the time of the split. This period was a lesson in humility and forced Alex to confront the reality of his situation and acknowledge that he didn't have all the answers. It also underscored the inherent uncertainty of the entrepreneurial journey—a reality he had to embrace rather than resist. Furthermore, the experience taught Alex an important lesson about having clarity as you start to build your business. Do you want to be a consultant working only with contractors and never having to build a team? Or do you want to build a business that you can sell in the future? The pathway is different; the mentality and systems are different for each approach. Once he committed to a clear direction, he Alex understood he needed to surround himself with experts. The founder does not need to do it all and be a lone wolf. Instead, being part of a pack brought him much more joy and helped him grow much more than he'd expected. Embracing Collaboration and Uncertainty to Unlock Your Agency's Potential What's the biggest bottleneck holding your agency back at the moment? As Alex learned with experience, he had been the bottleneck stifling his agency's growth by trying to juggle multiple responsibilities without a clear delineation. During his second run with the agency, he knew that as the visionary leader, he needed an integrator that would handle operations, freeing him up to focus on sales. By collaborating with others and delegating tasks according to expertise, owners can focus on their strengths, ultimately leading to a more efficient and successful operation. Basically, Alex figured out where he wanted to go and who he needed to hire to get there. Ultimately, the journey of building a business is not just about reaching a destination but about embracing the process as an ongoing experiment. Adopting a mindset that values experimentation and collaboration can lead to both personal fulfillment and professional success. Entrepreneurship is inherently uncertain. However by acknowledging this, you can cultivate a culture of innovation within your team, encouraging creative problem-solving and the exploration of new ideas. Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset? Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our Agency Blueprint. Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success.

Guest: Jon Miller, Co-Founder & CEO of a Stealth AI StartupJon Miller, co-founder of Marketo and former CMO of Demandbase, argues that B2B marketing's traditional playbook—built on predictable demand generation, MQL scoring, and SDR-driven outbound—is broken. The “gumball machine” approach, where marketers expect predictable revenue by simply feeding in budget and campaigns, no longer works. Buyers have evolved, becoming more resistant to outbound tactics and opting for anonymous research. To succeed, revenue leaders must shift from short-term lead generation to long-term brand building, customer experience, and relationships.Key Takeaways:

In this episode, Dave is joined by Gurdeep Dhillon, CMO of Contentstack. Gurdeep has built an impressive career leading marketing at some of the biggest names in enterprise software, from SAP to Adobe, Marketo to Zoura. Now at Content Stack, he's challenging conventional B2B marketing wisdom in rethinking how enterprise companies should approach demand generation and brand building. In this conversation, Dave and Gurdeep dive deep into why marketing is ultimately a game of memory and reputation, not just lead generation.Dave and Gurdeep cover:The role of Demand Gen in 2025 (and what's changed)Why Brand and Reputation should be prioritized over Lead GenerationProven strategies to create urgency and close sales deals in enterprise marketsA glimpse into ContentStack's team structure and how they plan for growthTimestamps(00:00) - - Intro to Gurdeep (07:17) - - Brand and Audience Marketing (08:29) - - How the Role of Demand Gen is Changing (12:39) - - Brand and Reputation > Lead Generation (17:29) - - How Contentstack is Doing Demand Gen (20:07) - - How to Create Urgency to Win Sales Deals (21:48) - - Making a Good Offer in B2B Marketing (23:04) - - Why Being Bold and Taking Risks is Important in Marketing (29:29) - - Selling Your Vision to Leadership (32:10) - - How Contentstack Has Over 10,000 Global ICP Accounts (36:53) - - Team Structure at Contentstack (41:51) - - Running Marketing and Operating a High-Performing Team (44:07) - - Setting Effective Annual Plans (46:22) - - AI's Role in Marketing (49:56) - - Closing Thoughts Send guest pitches and ideas to hi@exitfive.comJoin the Exit Five Newsletter here: https://www.exitfive.com/newsletterCheck out the Exit Five job board: https://jobs.exitfive.com/Become an Exit Five member: https://community.exitfive.com/checkout/exit-five-membership***This episode of the Exit Five podcast is brought to you by our friends at Revenue Hero. It's 2024, your buyer has probably moved on to an alternative after a few minutes of not hearing from you, let alone 29 hours.What those companies need is automated scheduling for qualified leads.And that's where RevenueHero comes in. Their platform is the fastest way for qualified leads to schedule a meeting with your sales team. Plus they have the most sophisticated matching algorithm so all your leads get booked with the right rep whether they are a new account or already a customer. Check them out at revenuehero.io/exitfive.***Thanks to my friends at hatch.fm for producing this episode and handling all of the Exit Five podcast production.They give you unlimited podcast editing and strategy for your B2B podcast.Get unlimited podcast editing and on-demand strategy for one low monthly cost. Just upload your episode, and they take care of the rest.Visit hatch.fm to learn more

Episode Summary In this episode of the OnBase podcast, Chris Moody hosts Jeremy Schwartz, who shares insights on the seismic shift from MQL-based approaches to buying groups in Account-Based Marketing (ABM). Jeremy discusses his extensive background in marketing and the challenges of traditional lead-based systems, emphasizing inefficiencies like low conversion rates and misaligned metrics. He highlights the transformative potential of buying groups, explaining how they enable better targeting and personalized engagement across accounts. Jeremy delves into the importance of leveraging data science, marketing automation, and RevOps collaboration to identify and activate high-value opportunities, while sharing practical examples from his experience at Palo Alto Networks. This engaging conversation offers actionable strategies for aligning sales and marketing teams to drive opportunity creation and improve pipeline outcomes. About the guest Jeremy Schwartz is the Sr. Manager of Global Lead Management & Strategy at Palo Alto Networks. He is a seasoned Global RevOps Marketing Leader with over 25 years of experience driving growth and innovation for B2B organizations. Renowned for pioneering strategic buying group models, Jeremy specializes in optimizing demand generation and lead management to deliver measurable results. His expertise lies in architecting large-scale, integrated campaigns that enhance visibility, engagement, and revenue. Committed to fostering collaboration, Jeremy aligns marketing and sales to achieve operational harmony and shared objectives. By leveraging data-driven insights, he transforms complex challenges into strategic growth opportunities, creating long-term business impact and scalable success. Connect with Jeremy Key takeaways - Traditional MQL models lead to inefficiencies like low conversion rates, wasted resources, and engagement with low-priority contacts. Jeremy explains how these models fail to identify real opportunities within accounts. - Jeremy describes buying groups as the next evolution in ABM, focusing on identifying multiple stakeholders within an account and targeting them collectively to improve opportunity creation. - First-, second- and third-party intent signals are critical to identifying active buying groups within accounts. Understanding these signals allows for better allocation of resources and more targeted marketing and sales efforts. - Jeremy outlines how buying groups allow both marketing and sales to work together by using personalized tactics for different stakeholders, creating a seamless activation process. - By analyzing historical data, companies can identify key personas involved in successful deals and tailor their outreach to align with the needs of similar stakeholders in the future. - Jeremy highlights the importance of tools like Demandbase, LeanData, Marketo, and custom-built applications for implementing and scaling buying group strategies effectively. - Jeremy predicts that buying group adoption will accelerate, and technology will evolve to better support this motion, offering enhanced tools for targeting and collaboration. - The successful adoption of buying groups requires an iterative approach that starts with manual processes, develops clear workflows, and eventually integrates technology to scale. Quotes On Identifying Buying Groups: “Being able to see who's in a buying group and understanding their personas is the first step to transforming your account-based strategy.” On Optimizing Resources Based on Signals: “Don't spend money where you see low or no engagement. When you see a high signal account, throw everything, including the kitchen sink, at it.” Communities: - Buying group members (LinkedIn community):  A community dedicated to discussions and insights on buying group models in B2B marketing. He recommends this group for professionals seeking to deepen their understanding of buying groups and to engage with industry experts.

GTM Disrupted host Mike Smart and Rod Cherkas, author and CEO of HelloCCO explore how customer success has evolved into a key driver of growth in SaaS businesses. Rod draws on his extensive experience as a customer success leader at companies like RingCentral, Marketo, and Gainsight to inform the discussion. He shares insights from his new book, REACH, and explains how SaaS companies implement this framework to fuel top-line growth and generate expansion revenue. Key Takeaways from this Episode Include:  Leveraging Customer Success as a Growth Engine  Adopting the REACH Framework  Utilizing AI as a Transformational Tool for Customer Success About Rod Cherkas Rod Cherkas is a highly regarded consultant to CEOs, CCOs, CROs, and their customer-facing leaders. He has held post-sale executive roles at several customer-centric organizations, including Intuit, RingCentral, Marketo, and Gainsight. Currently, he is the Founder and CEO of HelloCCO, a strategy consulting firm that collaborates with innovative companies across various industries to develop, execute, and scale strategies for their customer-facing functions. Rod's work focuses on improving customer retention, increasing profitability, and optimizing productivity. He is the author of the bestselling books, "The Chief Customer Officer Playbook" and "REACH: A Framework for Driving Revenue Growth from Your Existing Customers." To learn more about Rod to go - https://www.linkedin.com/in/rodcherkas/ or https://rodcherkas.com/

In this short segment of the Revenue Builders Podcast, Battery Ventures Operating Partner, Bill Binch, talks with Revenue Builders on getting specific on what makes your reps successful and the importance of understanding that success profile as a CRO. If you are hiring in 2025, don't miss this segment. KEY TAKEAWAYS[00:00:27] - Introduction to Bill Binch's career highlights (Battery Ventures, Pendo, Marketo).[00:01:11] - The importance of having a clear and compelling personal and company value proposition as a CRO.[00:02:17] - Lessons from Marketo: Hiring top talent and being ruthless about performance in the early days.[00:03:15] - Defining traits of successful sales reps and discovering the “Monday Morning Meeting Rule.”[00:04:11] - Inputs that predict outputs: The critical metric of nine weekly customer-facing meetings.[00:05:02] - Structuring onboarding and enablement to align activity with success expectations.[00:05:38] - Setting success profiles in interviews to align hiring with organizational goals.HIGHLIGHT QUOTES[00:01:11] - "As a CRO, if you're not audible-ready with your employee value prop or your own story, you're at risk. You're really at risk."[00:02:56] - "If you weren't cutting it at Marketo in 60 days, it was a hard place to be. That ruthlessness shaped our success."[00:03:48] - "Our reps who start the week with nine customer-facing meetings consistently hit quota. Meetings multiply."[00:05:02] - "We shifted enablement from outputs to inputs—measuring activity first to build downstream results."[00:05:38] - "When you start here, this is what we're going to manage you to. Does that sound good?"Listen to Bill's Full Episode Here: https://revenue-builders.simplecast.com/episodes/a-revenue-builders-journey-from-seller-to-leader-to-operating-partner/Enjoying the podcast? Sign up to receive new episodes straight to your inbox:https://hubs.li/Q02R10xN0Check out John McMahon's book here:Amazon Link: https://a.co/d/1K7DDC4Check out Force Management's Ascender platform here: https://my.ascender.co/Ascender/Read Force Management's eBook: https://www.forcemanagement.com/roi-of-sales-messaging

Text us your thoughts on the episode or the show!Embark on an inspiring journey with Andrea Lechner-Becker, CMO at LeadMD, as she recounts her dynamic shift from the sports entertainment arena with the Phoenix Suns to becoming a maestro of marketing automation. Holding the baton for tools like Eloqua and Marketo, Andrea orchestrates a symphony of insights into the ever-evolving landscape of marketing analytics in the B2B realm. She emphasizes the vital importance of bridging the gap between marketing endeavors and tangible sales results—a task she approaches with both passion and precision. Her expertise, garnered from the distinct challenges of sports marketing, carries over into her profound understanding of customer psychology, offering a masterclass in what B2B marketers should focus on when it comes to analytics.Our conversation then waltzes into the delicate balance of consulting pricing and specialization, where Andrea's seasoned perspective shines bright. The art of valuing expertise, rather than mere time spent on tasks, comes under the spotlight as we navigate the intricacies of pricing strategies and service packaging. We unveil the essence of setting boundaries and communicating transparently with clients, ensuring that the value delivered is unmistakable. Andrea then shares her heartfelt transition from consultant to CMO, where empathy and common sense become the guiding stars. As we uncover the ground realities behind strategy execution, we celebrate the unique position that comes with marketing to fellow marketers, all while embracing authenticity and a genuine marketer's perspective in the consulting world.Episode Brought to You By MO Pros The #1 Community for Marketing Operations Professionals MOps-Apalooza is back by popular demand in Anaheim, California! Register for the magical community-led conference for Marketing and Revenue Operations pros.Support the show

Text us your thoughts on the episode or the show!Discover the transformative journey of Julie James, a celebrated Marketo champion, as she unveils the secrets to a thriving career in the MarTech consulting world. Her story is not just a narrative; it's a roadmap for marketing professionals aiming to pivot their careers with finesse and strategic prowess. From her inaugural steps in the industry to establishing her consultancy, Julie's experiences serve as a masterclass in building lasting client relationships, adapting to diverse Marketo environments, and the continuous upskilling required to navigate the dynamic terrain of marketing technology.Expand your understanding of the intersection between marketing theory and practical application with our episode's esteemed PhD guest, who seamlessly marries academic insights with real-world consulting challenges. This dual perspective sheds light on the immense value of hands-on experience with tools like Marketo, Salesforce, and Google Analytics. The guest's candid discussions reveal the trials and triumphs of both teaching and consulting, while accentuating the importance of lifelong learning and the ripple effect of empowering students with applied knowledge.Join us as we delve into the practicalities of freelancing and consulting, from the art of transparent billing to the juggling act of client management. I share my preference for billing by the hour, fostering transparency and trust. Moreover, we weigh the merits of starting a marketing career on the client-side versus in an agency, and speculate on the potential impact of specialized marketing qualifications such as a hypothetical PhD in Marketo. Before we part ways, we extend a hearty thanks to Julie and invite you to enrich your marketing acumen by tuning in to these insights, stories, and strategic musings on the SMTC Podcast.Episode Brought to You By MO Pros The #1 Community for Marketing Operations Professionals MOps-Apalooza is back by popular demand in Anaheim, California! Register for the magical community-led conference for Marketing and Revenue Operations pros.Support the show

Text us your thoughts on the episode or the show!Joining us today is Chris Golec - a serial entrepreneur - who is currently Founder & CEO of Channel99, a company that leverages AI to help companies improve B2B marketing programs and invest in growth. Prior to Channel99, Chris has been active advising CEO's and marketing executives, investing in start-up's, and supporting various philanthropic organizations. Previously, he founded Demandbase to transform B2B advertising, marketing and sales through innovations in digital technology and pioneered the ABM technology category. Prior to starting Demandbase, Chris founded Supplybase to help global manufacturers collaborate with their supply chain to bring new products to market. Before becoming a software entrepreneur, Chris held multiple sales, marketing and engineering positions with GE, DuPont, and GM.Tune in to hear: - Chris shares the initial vision behind Demandbase and the shift towards Account-Based Marketing (ABM) in the B2B space. Discover what led to this strategic pivot and its impact on the company's growth.- Explore the role of AI in reshaping the future of marketing operations. Chris discusses the potential changes and opportunities AI presents for marketing teams, with a focus on automation and data insights.- Learn why Chris launched Channel99 and how it addresses the challenges of marketing analytics. He delves into the unique opportunities it offers for data-driven decision-making in marketing.- Chris explains what it means to be an AI-driven Marketing Investment Decision Platform and how the use of economic analysis helps in predictive marketing. Real-world scenarios and examples are discussed for better understanding.Episode Brought to You By MO Pros The #1 Community for Marketing Operations Professionals Meet Jeto, your new Marketo campaign co-pilot!Jeto is an application that centralizes all your campaign intake into a single place by allowing marketers to easily create, launch, and manage campaigns without stepping foot in Marketo. The best part is that it also fully automates the Marketo program builds, enforces governance, and integrates with your entire martech stack.Ready to cut costs, speed up your campaigns, and make marketing operations a breeze? MOps-Apalooza is back by popular demand in Anaheim, California! Register for the magical community-led conference for Marketing and Revenue Operations pros.Support the show

Text us your thoughts on the episode or the show!Today we are joined by Sangeetha Parsan and Mary Wallace from Informa to talk about the lessons learned from rolling out a CDP at a global enterprise organization.Sangeetha is Vice President, Professional Services at Informa. She has been in IT leadership in various capacities at Informa for several years. Prior to Informa, she was part of IT project management and technology with UBM, which was acquired by Informa. And, her early career was in solution architecture for web/CMS/Ecommerce. Mary Wallace is Senior Director, Marketing Technology. She has held several leadership roles in Marketing, Marketing Operations and technology at Informa. Before Informa, Mary led marketing technology efforts at UBM before it was acquired by Informa. She has held roles in marketing, marketing services, IT, and project management.Tune in to hear: Overview of CDP Implementation: Sangeetha Parson and Mary Wallace discussed their experiences and challenges while implementing a Customer Data Platform (CDP) at Informa, a global enterprise. They emphasized the importance of enhancing customer engagement and operational efficiency through technology, particularly in response to challenges posed by the pandemic.Strategic Deployment: The rollout of the CDP was strategic, addressing data silos by integrating data to provide a comprehensive 360-degree view of customer interactions. This integration helps in understanding customer behaviors and preferences across different business sectors of Informa, facilitating more targeted and effective marketing strategies.Adoption and Change Management: Sangeetha and Mary highlighted the critical aspects of ensuring successful adoption of new technologies within large organizations. They underscored the necessity of engaging with different business units individually to understand their specific needs and then scaling solutions. Training, transparency, and trust were identified as key elements to foster acceptance and utilization of the CDP.Future Outlook and AI Integration: Looking forward, the integration of AI and machine learning is seen as the next significant step to enhance the capabilities of the CDP. This advancement will allow for even more precise data analysis and segmentation, potentially transforming strategic decision-making processes and operational effectiveness at Informa.Episode Brought to You By MO Pros The #1 Community for Marketing Operations Professionals Meet Jeto, your new Marketo campaign co-pilot!Jeto is an application that centralizes all your campaign intake into a single place by allowing marketers to easily create, launch, and manage campaigns without stepping foot in Marketo. The best part is that it also fully automates the Marketo program builds, enforces governance, and integrates with your entire martech stack.Ready to cut costs, speed up your campaigns, and make marketing operations a breeze? MOps-Apalooza is back by popular demand in Anaheim, California! Register for the magical community-led conference for Marketing and Revenue Operations pros.Support the show

In this episode, John Kaplan and John McMahon are joined by Bill Binch, a seasoned sales leader and Operating Partner at Battery Ventures. Together, they explore Bill's extensive career, beginning at major companies like Oracle and PeopleSoft, moving to startups such as Marketo, and eventually stepping into the VC world. Bill shares key lessons on effective sales management, transparent leadership, and strategic hiring. He also emphasizes the importance of consistent messaging, proactive problem-solving, and the integration of new technologies like AI in achieving revenue goals. This episode provides practical insights into growing within the sales domain, understanding the motivations behind career transitions, and the roles of anticipation and deliberate growth for CROs looking to evolve into advisory or operating positions within investment firms.Tune in and learn more on this episode of The Revenue Builders Podcast.ADDITIONAL RESOURCESConnect and learn more about Bill Binch:https://www.linkedin.com/in/bill-binch-302a4a2/Listen to Bill's podcast:  https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/sound-bites-with-bill-binch/id1732334718Read Bill's Content:  https://www.battery.com/blog-author/bill-binch/Enjoying the podcast? Sign up to receive new episodes straight to your inbox: https://hubs.li/Q02R10xN0HERE ARE SOME KEY SECTIONS TO CHECK OUT[00:01:33] Lessons from Oracle and PeopleSoft[00:04:32] Purposeful Career Moves and Sacrifices[00:09:02] Navigating Career Challenges and Mentorship[00:13:05] The Importance of Learning and Patience[00:32:19] Transitioning to Smaller Companies[00:45:57] Transparency and Community Building at Marketo[00:47:13] Simplifying the Message: A CRO's Skill[00:48:48] Recruitment Challenges and Strategies[00:51:55] Building a High-Performance Sales Team[00:52:37] The Importance of Employee Value Proposition[00:55:47] Traits of Successful Sales Reps[00:59:28] The Role of a CRO in a Startup[01:01:07] Navigating the CRO-CEO Relationship[01:05:25] Forecasting and Accountability[01:09:48] Transitioning to an Operating Partner Role[01:18:43] Advice for Aspiring CROs and Board MembersHIGHLIGHT QUOTES[00:02:28] "People that raise their hands and say the word yes, opportunities open up for you when that happens." — Bill Binch[00:10:50] "Learn, earn, and return. And you don't ever stop; as you grow, you acquire more of those stages." — Bill Binch[00:11:00] "So it starts with learning your craft, learning your skill, getting good at something." — Bill Binch

Text us your thoughts on the episode or the show!Joining us today to talk about establishing Marketing Technology as a tool for business impact is Mirko Roettgers. Mirko is General Manager at Triggerfish, a global marketing technology agency based in Brisbane, Australia. Mirko is an experienced senior leader who helps implementing marketing and technology solutions that align to organisational strategic goals, with demonstrated experience across digital, marketing and technology disciplines. Prior to joining Triggerfish, Mirko held leadership roles in digital transformation, digital marketing, and other related fields both internally and at agencies. Tune in to hear:  - Mirko shares insights on the significance of marketing technology in achieving business goals, stressing the importance of aligning tech initiatives with organizational strengths.- The episode dives into the challenges and strategies for measuring the effectiveness of marketing operations teams, highlighting the dependency on various factors like sales and market conditions, and the need for metrics that directly tie to revenue.- The conversation shifts to how personalized marketing strategies can enhance customer retention and satisfaction, with examples of successful implementations in different sectors.- Mirko offers advice on how to approach new marketing technologies, emphasizing the need for clear objectives, limited scope, and gradual implementation to ensure sustained value from tech investments.Episode Brought to You By MO Pros The #1 Community for Marketing Operations Professionals Meet Jeto, your new Marketo campaign co-pilot!Jeto is an application that centralizes all your campaign intake into a single place by allowing marketers to easily create, launch, and manage campaigns without stepping foot in Marketo. The best part is that it also fully automates the Marketo program builds, enforces governance, and integrates with your entire martech stack.Ready to cut costs, speed up your campaigns, and make marketing operations a breeze? MOps-Apalooza is back by popular demand in Anaheim, California! Register for the magical community-led conference for Marketing and Revenue Operations pros.Support the show

Text us your thoughts on the episode or the show!Join us as we sit down with Johnny Rodgers, one of Slack's original employees. During his time at Slack - from the beginning until post-acquisition - Johnny wore several hats. Earlier this year, he and some other former early employees started sharing some stories about the early days (and beyond) of Slack. You can read those and subscribe for notifications as new posts are published at buildingslack.com. Tune in to hear: Journey of Slack: Johnny discusses his transition from web development to joining the startup that became Slack. He shares insights on how Slack evolved from a gaming company into a revolutionary communication tool.Building Products People Love: The discussion delves into creating software that people can genuinely enjoy using, drawing from Slack's goal to replace email and streamline workplace communication.Customer Engagement and Feedback: They highlight the importance of listening to customer feedback to improve products and services continually. Johnny emphasizes the responsive approach Slack takes to incorporate user suggestions and resolve issues.Technology Adoption and Change Management: The episode covers strategies for effective technology adoption within organizations, including fostering internal advocates and understanding the challenges of introducing new tools.Link to Johnny's websiteLink to the podcast episode "How I Built This" mentioned in the episode Episode Brought to You By MO Pros The #1 Community for Marketing Operations Professionals Meet Jeto, your new Marketo campaign co-pilot!Jeto is an application that centralizes all your campaign intake into a single place by allowing marketers to easily create, launch, and manage campaigns without stepping foot in Marketo. The best part is that it also fully automates the Marketo program builds, enforces governance, and integrates with your entire martech stack.Ready to cut costs, speed up your campaigns, and make marketing operations a breeze? MOps-Apalooza is back by popular demand in Anaheim, California! Register for the magical community-led conference for Marketing and Revenue Operations pros.Support the show

Homeownership is an important part of economically empowering people. Even though efforts have been made to level the playing field, underserved communities still face significant barriers in the buying market.  Equal access alone doesn't translate into equal opportunity, especially when race, religious beliefs, and language continue to influence the experiences of potential buyers.  This means marginalized communities remain on the sidelines, lacking the right tools and education to confidently step into ownership. What can be done to help people in these communities prepare to buy? What tools can we use for education when it comes to credit and buying? Can we leverage AI to translate to all potential buyers? CEO of Home Lending Pal, Bryan Young joins me to talk about the struggles underserved communities face when it comes to home-buying and how we can solve them.    Equal access doesn't necessarily mean equal opportunity. -Bryan Young   Things You'll Learn In This Episode  -Go from transactional to relationship based Shifting from a transactional approach to a relationship-based fosters trust and loyalty. How can focusing on building relationships rather than just transactions lead to meaningful success? -Doing things differently Adapting our approach is crucial when current methods aren't closing the gap. How can we recognize when it's time to pivot and try a new strategy? -AI is a pathway to significant impact. AI is a powerful tool for creating significant impact while also driving revenue growth. How can we use it to make a real difference for underserved communities? Guest Bio Bryan Young has a track record of success as an entrepreneur and in corporate America. At 24, he was recognized by both Bloomberg and Ernst and Young as a top entrepreneur under the age of 40 for launching and building the BEC agency. After selling the agency, Bryan was Marketo's first Senior Strategic Consultant, a position created specifically for him to lead global client engagements with Microsoft, Google, Panasonic, and the NBA league office among others at a 1,000+ person company. Before his time at Marketo, he was most known for leading the digital strategy for Obama and the DNC in 2012 and Republican Congresswoman Renee Ellmers in 2010 (NC). He is currently enrolled in Wharton's Chief Strategy Officer program. Email Bryan byoung@homelendingpal.com  Visit https://www.homelendingpal.com/  Follow @homelendingpal on Instagram Find @Home Lending Pal on LinkedIn   About Your Host ​​Licensed Managing Broker, REALTORS®, avid volunteer, and Major Donor, Marki Lemons Ryhal is dedicated to all things real estate. With over 25 years of marketing experience, Marki has taught over 250,000 REALTORS® how to earn up to a 2682% return on their marketing dollars. Six-time REALTOR® Conference and Expo featured attendee, one of 100 speakers selected to speak the REALTOR® Conference & Expo five times, and an Inman closing Keynote Speaker. Marki's expertise has been featured in Forbes, Washington Post, http://Homes.com , and REALTOR® Magazine.   Check out this episode on our website, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify, and don't forget to leave a review if you like what you heard. Your review feeds the algorithm so our show reaches more people. Thank you!

Tune in for our centennial celebration!In this special milestone episode, we're celebrating the 100th episode of Facts vs Feelings with a live audience and special guest Tom Lee, Managing Partner and Head of Research at Fundstrat Global Advisors. Together with hosts Ryan Detrick, Chief Market Strategist at Carson Group, and Sonu Varghese, VP, Global Macro Strategist at Carson Group, Tom discusses market outlooks, evolving investment strategies, and key economic trends shaping the future.What's next for the S&P 500? How do historical patterns and Fed actions impact today's market? And why should financial advisors pay close attention to demographic trends and Bitcoin? Tom Lee offers his bold predictions, including the path to S&P 15,000 and the evolving role of Bitcoin in investment portfolios.They discuss: Tom's bold prediction: S&P 500 reaching 15,000 by 2030The impact of demographic trends on long-term market cyclesNavigating short-term volatility, particularly in September and OctoberInsights into Bitcoin's potential and its role in a diversified portfolioThe Federal Reserve's rate cuts and their influence on market outlookStrategies for small-cap stocks in a shifting economyAnd more!Resources:Any questions about the show? Send it to us! We'd love to hear from you! factsvsfeelings@carsongroup.com Connect with Tom Lee: X: Tom LeeWebsite: FundstratConnect with Ryan Detrick: LinkedIn: Ryan DetrickX: Ryan DetrickConnect with Sonu Varghese: LinkedIn: Sonu VargheseX: Sonu VargheseAbout Our Guest:Thomas Lee is a Managing Partner and the Head of Research at Fundstrat Global Advisors. He is an accomplished Wall Street strategist with over 25 years of experience in equity research, and has been top-ranked by Institutional Investor every year since 1998. Prior to co-founding Fundstrat, he served as J.P. Morgan's Chief Equity Strategist from 2007 to 2014, and previously as Managing Director at Salomon Smith Barney. His areas of expertise include Market Strategy, Small/Mid-Cap Strategy and Telecom Services. Mr. Lee received his BSE from the Wharton School at University of Pennsylvania with concentrations in Finance and Accounting. He is a CFA charterholder and is an active member of NYSSA and the NY Economic Club.

Daniel Ruby is a VP of Marketing at Nobl9. Ruby is a dynamic marketing executive with a focus on B2B marketing, and has significant experience building teams and driving successful, data-driven programs for a range of startups and mid-sized organizations. As the Director of Online Marketing for Localytics, Ruby was the first marketing hire and scaled his team to a full-fledged marketing department with domain specialists focused on mobile apps.   Ruby also has a background in journalism and spent several years guest lecturing marketing courses at Bentley University, bringing this dynamic skill set to his current role at Nobl9. Ruby holds a BA in Broadcast Journalism from the University of Missouri-Columbia and an MBA in International Business from Brandeis University.  Questions ·      We always like to start off by asking our guests if they could share with us a little bit about their journey, how you got from where you were to where you are today. ·      Could you share with our listeners, what is Nobl9 and what exactly are you providing? What service are you providing? How are you adding value to your customers lives using this platform? ·      Could you give us an example, like a use case of an application, you can choose any industry, and kind of just give us an idea of what that looks like so the audience can get a more practical view. ·    Could distinguish or differentiate for our listeners, what's the difference between an SLO and an SLA? ·      Now, Daniel, could you share with us what's the one online resource, tool, website or app that you absolutely can't live without in your business? ·      Where can listeners find you online? ·    Before we wrap our episodes up, we always like to ask our guests, do you have a quote or saying that during times of adversity or challenge, you'll tend to revert to this quote if for any reason you get derailed or you get off track. Highlights Daniel's Journey Me: Now, Daniel, could you share with our listeners, we always like to start off by asking our guests if they could share with us a little bit about their journey, how you got from where you were to where you are today.   Daniel shared that he was a journalist for a while, and kind of realized that there was not much of a market for it, so he kind of went and got an MBA to get a job, and kind of fell backwards into marketing as it is. And over the years, he's been with more than 10, mostly 10 startups, driving marketing, driving the customer experience in terms of from the moment that they're introduced to them as a brand until the moment that they no longer want to be or need to be working with them.  He finds a lot of joy in trying to make that experience pleasant, for lack of a better term. He's self-taught with most of the marketing stuff that he does, and he's kind of over the course of the years he's become very arrogantly convinced about a few core tenets of really communicating to customers and communicating to potential customers that have served him well, and it kind of always comes back to giving value at every step of the journey.   About Nobl9 – Enhancing Software Reliability and Value for Your Business Me: Now, could you share with our listeners, what is Nobl9 and what exactly are you providing? What service are you providing? How are you adding value to your customers lives using this platform?   Daniel shared that Nobl9 is basically a platform for software reliability. So, if we think about how somebody engages with a digital product, or even an in-person product with a digital back end to it. They are the premier, and kind of really only well-established provider of what's called Service Level Objectives, or SLOs. And an SLO was basically taking all of the different data points that make up your product, be it from the software, from the infrastructure, from third party microservices, etc, etc, etc, and rolls it up and actually gives a customer centric view into how reliable is their product.  And the reason that they do this is because most reliability, historically has been around is the product up. Is it up? Is it down? But anybody who's ever used a mobile app or a digital product, or even like a scan to pay service at a cafe knows that it's not just is it up? Is it working, or is everything within it doing what it's supposed to do?  So, he knows marketers like himself have taken the word holistic and kind of beaten it to death. But they do provide a holistic customer centric view. What is the customer experience like when actually using your product?   Me: So, Nobl9 is helping the application to maintain its reliability and have as little or no downtime as possible while the customer is interacting with it correct?   Daniel agreed, correct and kind of beyond downtime, is it, does it load fast enough? Do all of the different features load fast enough? Is there anything blocking my ability as a customer to buy from you or to use your service, or whatever you're trying to do? So, that's effectively what they do.   Practical Use Case – How Nobl9 Enhances Software Reliability Me: Okay, could you give us an example, like a use case of an application, you can choose any industry, and kind of just give us an idea of what that looks like so the audience can get a more practical view.    Daniel shared that it's a little engineering, and he's a marketer so he feels like he's not necessarily smart enough to completely understand the engineering speak of it. But if you think about like an Ecommerce app, if you open up the app and it loads in traditional reliability, that's reliable. But how many times have you gone into an app.   So, let's say your path in using E commerce app is, you're going to load the app, going to search for the product that he wants to buy, he's going to add it to his cart, he's going to go to his cart, he's going to check out. And maybe there's a login to My Account somewhere in the way.   With SLOs, what you can do is you can have all of the different steps of that path viewed as part of this overarching experience with the app. So, if you go to add something to your cart, the app sits there and hangs, that's not good reliability.   If you go to the cart itself, and for whatever reason you go to pay and like the app's connection to PayPal for whatever reason isn't working, and you get this message back that says, hey, we can't complete your payment, try another credit card or something, that's a bad experience. And that's the kind of reliability breakdown that leads people to quit using a product.  So, they make sure that strategically, all of the things that make up that path, you'll have a server dedicated to your shopping cart, you'll have a micro service that is dedicated to completing a purchase. They make sure that all of that you've got visibility into how the experience is for the end user, not just some third-party service that tries to connect and says yes, it can connect, no it can't connect. It's the whole experience of a digital product and they make it easy to understand.   Understanding the Difference – SLOs vs. SLAs Me: Now, at the beginning, you mentioned that it's based on your SLOs or Service Level Objectives. And just wanted to know if you could distinguish or differentiate for our listeners, what's the difference between an SLO and an SLA?   Daniel stated that that's a great question. So, an SLA is typically an agreement that you have with your users. You say you'll be able to use my product or my service xx percent of the time. And that's more of a contractual conversation than it is, a reliability conversation. When you start actually building it, in order to make sure that you're achieving this SLA that you've agreed upon with your clients, you've got to make sure that you know all of these different elements of their experience are operating at a certain efficiency. So, he hates to over complicate things, but there's actually a step in between called an SLI, a Service Level Indicator.  And so, a Service Level Indicator is things like, “I want my website to load in less than 100 milliseconds.” That's a Service Level Indicator. And the SLI is effectively a consistent goal, but then what you do with SLOs is you take that a little bit further.   So, an SLO operates within what's called an error budget, and you get a certain number of errors per month, per week, however, you want to set it up. And an error is when you don't meet that SLI and you say, “I know that it's maybe not impossible, but either improbable or just extremely expensive to make my website load in less than 100 seconds every single time.”  So, what an SLO does is it says, okay, I expect to meet this SLI however often I have decided is actually impactful on the customer experience, and whenever I don't, you get an error, and at that point, you're like, okay, it's an error, but an error is not an outage.  Daniel stated that he doesn't know if he's explaining this really well, but basically if you look at an SLO graph, it's going to be going down into the right and that is your budget. You say, okay, I expect this part of my service will meet my everyday life 95% of the time. And then you see the little graph going down, which, every time it doesn't meet that, it froze an error, and a certain amount of errors, it's just part of digital product development is understanding that you have to accept some errors. 100% perfection, it's impossible.    Me: Does not exist.   Daniel agreed, it does not exist. And a lot of people think about reliability in the number of nines, “My product is available 99.99% of the time.” That would be called four nines. Every nine that you add to that number basically increases your IT costs by an order of magnitude. So, at a certain point, you got to understand with SLOs are really the ideal way to do it.  At what point does this actually impact my customers? At what point does this actually impact my users?  It allows you to be strategic, and it allows you to see things when they begin. So, you mentioned outages earlier, an outage, your whole product crashes, it's unavailable to anybody. Those don't happen in a vacuum, there's something that causes them. And if you've got an SLO or a set of SLOs really, displaying the health of your service, the health of your product, you're suddenly going to see a bunch of errors coming in.  And you may or may not have enough forewarning to say, “Oh, crap, we're about to have an outage. Well, this server in my cloud provider is having massive latency issues, it looks like the server is about to crash, and that's going to take everything down.” You can have a little bit more of a runway to try and identify the actual issue behind a potential outage. And that's where you strategically define how much, how many errors can I tolerate in a month?  And then you basically have a real time view at all times.  Is my product, is my service running the way I expect it to, and the way I expect it to is from the perspective of the customer. Are my customers able to do what they expect to be able to do when they launch my app, or when they use my product.   App, Website or Tool that Daniel Absolutely Can't Live Without in His Business When asked about online resource that he can't live without in his business, Daniel shared that personally, it's HubSpot. He spent a few years as a HubSpot consultant, a third-party consultant for HubSpot integrations. And he could say a marketing automation platform, but he got a fanboy a little bit about HubSpot because it takes everything that used to be complicated about sales and marketing and customer support and customer experience, and kind of rolls it up. You've got your CRM, you've got your automation platform, you've got your email platform. He's actually taken to feeding his HubSpot metrics into Nobl9 SLO lately, because there's so much rich data within HubSpot.  And he's been running little things like, they'll change a script for their biz dev team. And then they'll just run a metric on calls connected to calls having a success, either a demo or a follow up request.  And HubSpot's got such great data, and then he can turn that into an SLO where he can say, “Okay, I expect the submission rate on my forms to be X percent. I expect the completion rate of our inside sales calls to be X percent over 80% of the time.”  And he can run that in an SLO, he can see that like if he changes something, but simple little things, if he changes the colour of the submit button on a form, he can see in real time what the view to submission rate is that's changing, and he can act on that. He can put a little note in the SLO with that time stamp and say, “Hey, I changed the color of this button” and see how that's making an impact. Or, if he looks in HubSpot and see, “Oh, crap, my submission rate has been terrible for the past 36 hours, what's happened?” And he can go into his SLO and say, “Oh, there's a little note here, I changed something in the UX. I changed something colour wise. I added a question, I removed a question.” And you see direct historical cause for that.  But going back to HubSpot in general, he really respects HubSpot's approach to they call it the flywheel, which is all about delighting customers and delighting prospects.  And they really do a great job of giving you the tools to actually give value in your marketing and sales and customer service processes. He doesn't know what he's do without HubSpot right now, he'd probably try and hack something together with Salesforce and Marketo and be more complicated and less easy to get adoption internally. But luckily, he doesn't need to.    Where can listeners find Daniel online? LinkedIn – Nobl9inc X – @nobl9inc   Quote or Saying that During Times of Adversity Daniel Uses When asked about a quote or saying that he tends to revert, Daniel shared, “Nothing is a failure unless you fail to learn from it.” He stated that he's got a great team that he works with at Nobl9. And some are early in their career, some have been working in marketing for several years, some have advanced degrees, some don't.  And so, he's been with Nobl9 since January, and one of the things that he wanted to do quickly was make sure that people were comfortable making mistakes and understanding that an action and its outcome is not the end of that process. If you don't learn from it, why it worked, why it didn't, then you've made a mistake. But failure is as important an element in driving success in any business scenario. So, he likes making sure that people know that, and he likes making sure that they feel comfortable, because without being comfortable with failure, how are you going to try anything revolutionary?   Me: True. Thank you so much for sharing, Daniel.   Now, we just like to thank you so much for hopping on this podcast and sharing all of the great insights about Nobl9, the wonderful work that your team is doing as it relates to ensuring that customers are having a more seamless and frictionless experience across these platforms and increases the reliability. And we really appreciate some of the great nuggets that you shared with us as it relates to what is a Service Level Objective versus a Service Level Agreement and a Service Level Indicator, great information to learn, to understand the whole process, because in order to navigate the customer experience, there is really a lot that you have to take into account to ensure that the customer walks away feeling like, yeah, that was that was fun, it was easy, it wasn't hard, and I was able to do it really quickly. So, thank you so much.    Please connect with us on Twitter @navigatingcx and also join our Private Facebook Community – Navigating the Customer Experience and listen to our FB Lives weekly with a new guest   The ABC's of a Fantastic Customer Experience Grab the Freebie on Our Website – TOP 10 Online Business Resources for Small Business Owners  Do you want to pivot your online customer experience and build loyalty - get a copy of “The ABC's of a Fantastic Customer Experience.” The ABC's of a Fantastic Customer Experience provides 26 easy to follow steps and techniques that helps your business to achieve success and build brand loyalty. This Guide to Limitless, Happy and Loyal Customers will help you to strengthen your service delivery, enhance your knowledge and appreciation of the customer experience and provide tips and practical strategies that you can start implementing immediately! This book will develop your customer service skills and sharpen your attention to detail when serving others. Master your customer experience and develop those knock your socks off techniques that will lead to lifetime customers. Your customers will only want to work with your business and it will be your brand differentiator. It will lead to recruiters to seek you out by providing practical examples on how to deliver a winning customer service experience!

Jason Lemkin created and runs SaaStr, the world's largest community for B2B/SaaS founders, and is the managing director of SaaStr Fund, a $90 million venture capital firm specializing in early-stage enterprise investments. He is also the mastermind behind two major tech conferences each year—one in the Bay Area, drawing in over 15,000 people, and another in Europe, with a crowd of more than 3,000 SaaS executives, founders, and entrepreneurs. Before SaaStr, Jason wore many hats: CEO and co-founder of EchoSign (later bought by Adobe), vice president at Adobe Systems, co-founder and president of NanoGram Devices Corp., vice president of NeoPhotonics, and a senior director at BabyCenter. In our conversation, we discuss:• How far you should go without a salesperson• Signs it's time to hire salespeople• Why you need to hire two salespeople• How to compensate your salespeople• How to interview salespeople• When to hire a VP of Sales• How to prevent their flaming out• How to scale your sales org• How to improve the relationship between your sales and product teams• Much more—Brought to you by:• CommandBar—AI-powered user assistance for modern products and impatient users• Vanta—Automate compliance. Simplify security.• LinkedIn Ads—Reach professionals and drive results for your business—Find the full transcript at: https://www.lennyspodcast.com/building-a-world-class-sales-org-jason-lemkin-saastr/—Where to find Jason Lemkin:• X: https://twitter.com/jasonlk• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jasonmlemkin/• Website: https://www.saastr.com/—Where to find Lenny:• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com• X: https://twitter.com/lennysan• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/—In this episode, we cover:(00:00) Jason's background(06:18) The importance of sales in B2B businesses(11:23) Signs that you should start hiring salespeople(14:19) Attributes to look for in early sales reps(19:08) Hiring a VP of Sales(26:43) The role of a VP of Sales(30:06) Interviewing salespeople(45:16) Determining sales compensation and quota(53:34) Transitioning from 100% commission to a smaller percentage(56:58) Indicators of a hard-to-sell product(59:39) Scaling the sales organization(01:05:26) Understanding sales roles and titles(01:10:02) Product involvement in sales, and vice versa(01:20:32) Thoughts on product teams taking on P&L responsibilities(01:27:23) One thing founders can do to become better at sales(01:31:02) The ideal trial length for a free trial sales team(01:39:50) Closing thoughts(01:41:43) Lightning round—Referenced:• Marc Benioff on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/marcbenioff/• Snowflake: https://www.snowflake.com/en/• Yamini Rangan on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/yaminirangan/• Salesforce: https://www.salesforce.com/• HubSpot: https://www.hubspot.com/• Twilio: https://www.twilio.com/• Cloudflare: https://www.cloudflare.com/• GitHub: https://github.com/• Columbo: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1466074/• What is Davos and why is it important? Your guide to the World Economic Forum's annual meeting: https://www.euronews.com/next/2024/01/15/what-is-davos-and-why-is-it-important-your-guide-to-the-world-economic-forums-annual-meeti• Adobe: https://www.adobe.com/• Satya Nadella on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/satyanadella/• Glengarry Glen Ross on Prime Video: https://www.amazon.com/Glengarry-Glen-Ross-James-Foley/dp/B002NN5F7A• The Wolf of Wall Street on Prime Video: https://www.amazon.com/Wolf-Wall-Street-Leonardo-DiCaprio/dp/B00IIU9FQY• A step-by-step guide to crafting a sales pitch that wins | April Dunford (author of Obviously Awesome and Sales Pitch): https://www.lennyspodcast.com/a-step-by-step-guide-to-crafting-a-sales-pitch-that-wins-april-dunford-author-of-obviously-awesom/• Pipedrive: https://www.pipedrive.com/• Sam Blond on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sam-blond-791026b/• Gong: https://www.gong.io/• Zendesk: https://www.zendesk.com/• ZoomInfo: https://www.zoominfo.com/• Apollo: https://www.apollo.io/• Daniel Chait on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dhchait/• SAP: https://www.sap.com/• Lessons on building product sense, navigating AI, optimizing the first mile, and making it through the messy middle | Scott Belsky (Adobe, Behance): https://www.lennyspodcast.com/lessons-on-building-product-sense-navigating-ai-optimizing-the-first-mile-and-making-it-through-t/• VistaPrint: https://www.vistaprint.com/• Procore: https://www.procore.com/• Matt Mullenweg on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mattm/• Wordpress: https://wordpress.com/• SaaStr University: https://app.saastruniversity.com/collections/20252• From Impossible to Inevitable: How SaaS and Other Hyper-Growth Companies Create Predictable Revenue: https://www.amazon.com/Impossible-Inevitable-Hyper-Growth-Companies-Predictable/dp/1119531691• Pavilion: https://www.joinpavilion.com/• Top 10 Learnings about Free Trials with Tomasz Tunguz: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tfQNJpnxmMw• The Terminal List on Prime Video: https://www.amazon.com/The-Terminal-List-Season-1/dp/B09HYNH8TK• Top Gun: Maverick on Paramount: https://www.paramountmovies.com/movies/top-gun-maverick• OpusClip app: https://www.opus.pro/• OnePlus Open smartphone: https://www.amazon.com/OnePlus-Dual-SIM-Unlocked-Smartphone-Hasselblad/dp/B0CHN7M531/• SaaStr conferences: https://www.saastr.com/events/• Marketo: https://go.marketo.com/about-marketo-landingpage-emea.html• Zoomtopia: https://zoomtopia.com/• Money20/20: https://us.money2020.com/• Shoptalk: https://shoptalk.com/• Jeff Lawson on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeffiel/• Eric Kwan on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/erickwan/—Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.—Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed. Get full access to Lenny's Newsletter at www.lennysnewsletter.com/subscribe