Podcasts about advanced directives

These challenging scenarios represent opportunities to provide truly patient-centered care at life's most vulnerable moments. By combining your medical expertise with thoughtful communication, you can help ensure patients' wishes are honored while supporting families through difficult transitions. In this episode we dive into the complex ethical and legal dilemmas faced by EMS providers when arriving on scenes involving Do Not Resuscitate (DNR) and goals of care forms. With special guest Dr. Daniel Markwalter, an emergency physician and hospice/palliative care expert, the discussion touches on understanding the importance of these forms, the challenges of making decisions without clear directives, and strategies for effective communication with family members when they suddenly disagree with the form. This episode provides valuable insights and practical advice for EMS professionals who can be faced with these sometimes challenging scenarios.   00:00 Introduction: The Ethical Dilemma in EMS 00:49 Sponsor Message: The Recess Tailor 01:53 Case Study: Evening Shift Dilemma 03:33 Expert Insights: Dr. Daniel Mark Walter 04:40 Understanding Hospice and DNR 09:48 Advanced Directives and Code Status 19:20 Challenges with Comfort Care and Advanced Directives 26:19 Aligning Medical Knowledge with Patient Goals 28:34 Understanding Goals of Care 29:03 Respecting Autonomy in Medical Decisions 30:02 Effective Communication with Families 31:45 Navigating Family Overrides in Critical Moments 32:36 Legal Aspects of Surrogate Decision Making 36:00 Exploring Illness Understanding and Prognosis 45:46 Symptom Management in Palliative Care 49:43 Final Thoughts and Summary   Resources Get 10% off FAST25 with promo code- loud&clear The Resus Tailor Todays Episode Show Notes Survey- Help us learn what content you want Gear We Like Good Stethoscope - https://amzn.to/3YJJrf2 Good Shears - https://amzn.to/40FROuF or https://amzn.to/3ChZ4Tn  Notepad for taking notes on calls - https://amzn.to/3Z1X21J Sunglasses - https://frontline-optics.com/discount/EMSCAST15 Books we recommend -  The Dichotomy of Leadership - https://amzn.to/4fiCAjN Extreme Ownership - https://amzn.to/3O1FWfa  Managing the Unexpected: Sustained Performance in a Complex World -        https://amzn.to/3V7BwYf Thinking Fast and Slow - https://amzn.to/4fiJG85 A Thousand Naked Strangers: A Paramedic's Wild Ride to the Edge and Back -  https://amzn.to/3YJJrf2 Guest/Cast/Crew information- Guest- Daniel Markwalter, MD Host- Ross Orpet, Will Berry  Catch up with us after the show Instagram- @emsloudandclear YouTube- https://www.youtube.com/@EMSLoudandClear Website- www.emspodcast.com    

Families don't have to care for a dying loved one in isolation. Hospice of Montezuma offers medical, social and emotional support to help with a loved one's end-of-life care. By Deborah Uroda.Watch this story at www.durangolocal.news/newsstories/when-your-family-needs-end-of-life-care This story is sponsored by Choice Building Supply and LOR Foundation.Support the show

Unlock the secrets to a more peaceful and prepared end-of-life experience with insights from our latest session in the Good Death Seminar series. As a hospice and oncology nurse, I draw from my extensive experience to transform the fear and chaos surrounding death into an opportunity for growth and understanding. You'll learn how to have essential end-of-life conversations that not only honor loved ones but also teach us valuable lessons about truly living. Discover how the Good Death Movement is reshaping societal perceptions and inspiring a more meaningful appreciation for life. Our discussion delves into the importance of having advanced directive conversations with family and friends, ensuring that end-of-life wishes are respected and documented. Through poignant stories, such as that of Mrs. Murphy, we highlight the potential heartbreak and conflict that arise from avoiding these critical discussions. Learn about the role of certified end-of-life doulas and the significance of legal documents like advanced directives and the POLST form in making your wishes known and legally recognized. Join us as we explore advanced directives' profound impact on families and medical professionals, offering peace of mind and clear guidance for those difficult decisions. We emphasize the need for proactive communication and preparation to bridge gaps in care and prevent misunderstandings. By participating in our movement, you contribute to a cultural shift in how society views death, fostering conversations that lead to a more serene and dignified end-of-life journey for all.     SIGN UP FOR THE "GOOD DEATH" SEMINAR SERIES on February 12th at 7pm ET - Click here The Good Death Seminar Series will be hosted LIVE on Zoom! Space is limited! Save your seat now!         We dive into: (00:00) Good Death Seminar Series Introduction (06:22) The Importance of End-of-Life Planning (20:07) Family Advanced Directive Discussion Comfort Level (25:12) Advance Directive Importance and Preparation (31:06) Advanced Directive Benefits and Challenges (35:47) Advanced Directives and Legal Considerations (45:06) The Importance of the Pulse Form (57:04) Good Death Book Purchase Instructions (01:10:51) Good Death Book Bonuses and Certification (01:23:43) Initiating Conversations on End-of-Life Care (01:32:28) The Good Death Movement Conclusion       We want to hear from you!!! If you found this podcast helpful, Please Rate, Review, & Follow so we can reach more people.       Links mentioned in this episode: Doulagivers Institute The NEXT Free Level 1 End of Life Doula Training Registration LINK  The NEXT Free Doulagivers Discovery Webinar  Buy The Good Death Book   80-90% of a positive end of life depends on these two things: Knowing the basic skills on how to care for someone at the end of life and planning ahead - and BOTH Doulagivers Institute is giving you for FREE! Access them Below! Making your wishes known is one of the greatest gifts you can give to your loved ones. Download The Doulagivers 9 Choice Advance Directive now! It's FREE!     More about what we do at Doulagivers Institute - Click here!

In this episode of The Healers Café, Manon Bolliger, FCAH, RBHT, speaks with Yvonne Caputo about the transformative impact of discussing and documenting end-of-life wishes, including the use of Advanced Directives and the Five Wishes document, to ensure a peaceful and personalized passing. For the transcript and full story go to: https://www.drmanonbolliger.com/yvonne-caputo    Highlights from today's episode include: Yvonne Caputo  07:13 It was such an indication to me about how much my father trusted me to do what he asked. You know, there was this bond, there was this trust, and that was his gift to me. You know, so do I grieve my father's loss? Absolutely! Manon Bolliger 13:25 I lost my mom a couple of years ago, and she really did exactly...she died exactly how she wanted to. And, I mean, we had it down to even the obituary. She wanted to write it so it would say exactly what she wanted it, you know. Yvonne Caputo  20:10 This is about you. This is about how you would like things to be. And she did that, and she said she sat down with her daughter, and they went over the document. She said it was one of the closest, loving, moving times of her life with that child,   ABOUT YVONNE CAPUTO Yvonne Caputo has been a teacher.  She taught in the Erie Pennsylvania Public Schools for 18 years.  She has also been the Vice President of Human Resources at a retirement community, a corporate trainer and consultant, and a psychotherapist.  She has a master's degree in education and clinical psychology. Her book, Flying with Dad, is a story about her relationship with her father through his telling of World War II stories.  Her second book, Dying with Dad shares how she and her dad had tough conversations about what he wanted in the end. She has always been a storyteller. She has used stories to widen students' eyes and soften clients' pain, and her stories have earned her rave reviews as a presenter and speaker. Yvonne lives in Pennsylvania with her best friend, who is also her husband. Together they have three children, three grandchildren, and a bernedooodle. Core purpose/passion: I am now deliciously semi-retired.  In that time, I have written two books, Flying with Dad and Dying with Dad. In the latter I talk about the conversations I had with my father about death and dying.  We made those conversations legal, and I spoke for him when he could no longer speak for himself.  Website | Facebook | LinkedIn |    ABOUT MANON BOLLIGER, FCAH, RBHT  As a de-registered (2021) board-certified naturopathic physician & in practice since 1992, I've seen an average of 150 patients per week and have helped people ranging from rural farmers in Nova Scotia to stressed out CEOs in Toronto to tri-athletes here in Vancouver.  My resolve to educate, empower and engage people to take charge of their own health is evident in my best-selling books:  'What Patients Don't Say if Doctors Don't Ask: The Mindful Patient-Doctor Relationship' and 'A Healer in Every Household: Simple Solutions for Stress'.  I also teach BowenFirst™ Therapy through and hold transformational workshops to achieve these goals. So, when I share with you that LISTENING to Your body is a game changer in the healing process, I am speaking from expertise and direct experience". Manon's Mission: A Healer in Every Household!  For more great information to go to her weekly blog:  http://bowencollege.com/blog.  For tips on health & healing go to: https://www.drmanonbolliger.com/tips    Follow Manon on Social – Facebook | Instagram | LinkedIn | YouTube | Twitter | Linktr.ee | Rumble   ABOUT THE HEALERS CAFÉ:  Manon's show is the #1 show for medical practitioners and holistic healers to have heart to heart conversations about their day to day lives.   Subscribe and review on your favourite platform: iTunes | Google Play | Spotify | Libsyn | iHeartRadio | Gaana | The Healers Cafe | Radio.com | Medioq |  Follow The Healers Café on FB: https://www.facebook.com/thehealerscafe     Remember to subscribe if you like our videos. Click the bell if you want to be one of the first people notified of a new release.   * De-Registered, revoked & retired naturopathic physician after 30 years of practice in healthcare. Now resourceful & resolved to share with you all the tools to take care of your health & vitality!

Featuring perspectives from Dr Lisa A Carey and Dr Rita Nanda, including the following topics:  Introduction (0:00) Stages of Triple-Negative Breast Cancer (TNBC); Recurrence After Adjuvant Treatment (5:28) Long-Term Outcomes with Metastatic TNBC (11:55) Side Effects and Complications of Treatment (24:42) Dose Reduction (30:27) Working While Receiving Treatment (32:24) Support for Minor Children and Grandchildren (37:12) Second Opinions and Self Advocacy (42:53) Recording Clinic Visits; Complementary Therapies; Nutrition (48:38) Living Wills and Advanced Directives (55:41) Please take our survey

A listener named Kay asks Fr. Dave, “How does the Church want one to complete an advanced directive?”

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Send me a text!Navigating our relationship with death is a profound part of our human experience, yet we often avoid talking about it. This avoidance not only prevents us from asking for and receiving care, it also reduces our capacity to provide care. Additionally, we must be able to embrace our mortality (rather than trying to transcend it) in order to fully embrace living this one precious life. Death doulas are a valuable resource for those looking for support around the emotional, practical, and spiritual dynamics of death.In this episode of Unlimited, I invited Nikki Smith (she/her) to join me in a conversation around navigating our relationship with death.Some of what we talk about in this episode includes:What is a death doulaAllowing space for grieving, whatever that looks like for youEngaging our fear of death to fully embrace lifeHow to find care as you navigate death and griefLINKS FROM THIS EPISODE:Good Grief with Nikki the Death Doula - Understanding HospiceFor those in Chicago, IL looking for estate planning, check out Emily Rozwadowski Law (reference this podcast for 10% off estate planning documents)CONNECT WITH NIKKI:WebsiteInstagramFacebookLinkedInPodcastCONNECT WITH VALERIE:WebsiteInstagramFacebookGet email updatesSupport the Show.

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Send us a Text Message.Grief and loss are the topic today. Host Julia Marie interviews Reverend Christine Vaughn Davies, a Presbyterian minister and spiritual director, about grief and loss.Davies explains that grief is not only associated with death but can also be related to changes in relationships, material possessions, physical functions, social roles, and personal dreams. She emphasizes the importance of acknowledging and naming these losses to understand and cope with the grief they cause.Davies also discusses the physical toll of grief and suggests self-care strategies such as ensuring adequate sleep and nutrition. She encourages people to seek out communities of support and to use spirituality as a tool for coping with grief.Davies also advocates for advanced care planning to ease the burden on family members and caregivers in the event of a loved one's death.RESOURCES: Music bed is (c) 2021 Diamond Light Holdings TrustRev Christine's Websitehttps://journeyingalongside.substack.com/ Rev Christine's Newsletter LinkThank you for listening to Evolving Humans! For consultations or classes, please visit my website: www.JuliaMarie.us

Joining us on Well Said is Dr. Maria Carney, Chief of the Division of Geriatric and Palliative Medicine in the Department of Medicine for Long Island Jewish Medical Center and North Shore University Hospital and Adam Kahn, Adjunct Professor with the Master's in Health Law and Policy Program at University and a Senior Fellow for the Gitenstein Institute for Health Law and Policy at Hofstra University. They will be helping us unpack the complex topic of Advanced Directives; or written statements of a person’s wishes regarding medical treatment, often including a living will, made to ensure those wishes are carried out should the person be unable to communicate them to a doctor.

In this podcast, our guest is a poet, Pat's sister, Janice O'Mahony. She lives on Whidbey Island, Washington, and has immersed herself in the community's creative environment. Janice has always been creative, but once she retired, she focused on being a “poet.” She has published her works in journals and books and spends much of her time honing her bard craft.   Order the book OUT OF THE BLUE four voices https://store.bookbaby.com/book/out-of-the-blue1   Greg's Blog (subscribe!): http://zzs-blg.blogspot.com/   Poems                                                        (12:47) Bad Art     (15:20) 26 Letters    (28:05) 2nd Act     (30:46) Advanced Directive    (33:06) Dentist Day     (36:10) Dodge Ball Target    (44:28) Decorum    (50:23) Starch  (52:55) Morning Glories  (57:25) What I Want to Know   (1:00:06) Pickup Sticks       #Janiceomahony#outoftheblue#whidbeyilsand#poetry#DianneShiner#DallasHuth#FaithWilder#kevinmiller#dereksheffield#etrimbathcreative#bookbaby#creativity#poemsdad#ginodeschruyver#lisatice#militarybrat#ptsd#PatCummings#GregGodels#ZZBlog#ComingFromLeftField#ComingFromLeftFieldPodcast#zzblog#mltoday

Death is a surety, but how can pastors prepare their members and their families for this difficult time? Chaplain Stephane Grant gives invaluable advice on this topic. Listen to learn about the importance of Advanced Directives, fostering needed conversations about a person's final wishes, and being present at the bedside to provide healing even when there is no cure.

While we often avoid thinking or talking about death, having open and honest conversations about mortality is essential to prepare for the end of life. To help others navigate this  challenging topic, Father Dave welcomes Dr. Stephen Doran to the show.  Dr. Doran is a permanent deacon and bioethicist for the Archdiocese of Omaha, and highlights hope in his book, “To Die Well: A Catholic Neurosurgeon's Guide to the End of Life.”

Do health care "miracles" actually exist? Or, are they the result of quick action and persistent advocacy? Kris and Dave, both 53, were enjoying their favorite TV show when Dave had a sudden cardiac arrest. Kris' choices - in that moment and during the next 2 months – determined Dave's fate.  Key Takeaway: Plan, Do, Act Get CPR certified. Studies consistently show that people who live in communities with higher rates of CPR certification have higher rates of survival after out of hospital cardiac arrest. Complete an Advanced Directive before you ever need one. In fact, everyone over the age of 18 should have one because bad things can unfortunately happen at any age.  Know your loved one's medical history and the medications they're on. It could save their life.  Links:  HospitalCompare: https://hospitalcompare.io/ Instagram:  https://instagram.com/speakupforyourhealth Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/speakupforyourhealth    

In this episode, we emphasize the significance of being mindful about the conversations we have, the friendships we cultivate, and the music we listen to, as they can either nourish or deplete us.  Just as the food we consume can impact our physical well-being, the conversations we engage in can have a similar effect on our overall health.Investing time in nourishing conversations can be life-giving rather than promoting negativity. By dissolving fear and choosing where to focus our attention, we can engage in conversations that bring vitality and contribute to our overall well-being. Be mindful of our environment and relationships, as they can either invigorate us or drain our vital energy.  Let's not waste mental energy on things that do not nourish us. Our thoughts, feelings, and emotions have the power to shape our physical bodies and greatly influence our experiences.Quotes: "Once we live a conscious life, this moment of death can be enlightenment.""Holding space,  is  witnessing someone and the light that comes out of them without trying to fix.""Sometimes the opportunity to stop, pause, is the beginning of your healing."Topics Covered In This Episode:End-of-life issues.Home funerals and green burials.Embracing the fact that death is coming.Where do we go when we dream?Grief rituals and healing.Different approaches to death.The process of dying.Advanced Directives and Resources.Legacy planning and digital assets.Living life before we're dead.Declining health and caregiver transitions.Subtle bodies and energy healing.The gift of each moment.Get to know our guest speaker Gabi Dias:Insta: @goatgabi, @TheDeathTalkWebsite: www.goatgabi.comImportant Links:The 5 Wishes Document https://www.fivewishes.org/for-myself/POLST: https://polst.org/+++++++++++++++++++++SurvivingBreastCancer.org's  Mission: To empower those diagnosed with breast cancer and their families from day one and beyond. About SurvivingBreastCancer.org: SurvivingBreastCancer.org, Inc. (SBC) is a federally recognized 501(c)(3) non-profit virtual platform headquartered in Boston with a national and global reach. Through education, community, and resources, SurvivingBreastCancer.org supports women and men going through breast cancer. We provide a sanctuary of strength, compassion, and empowerment, where those diagnosed with cancer unite to share their stories, learn invaluable coping strategies to manage wellness and mental health, and find solace in the unbreakable bond that fuels hope, resilience, and the courage to conquer adversity.+++++++++++++++++++++Follow us on InstagramLaura and Will: https://www.instagram.com/laura_and_will/SurvivingBreastCancer.org: https://www.survivingbreastcancer.org/Support the show

Episode 6 - Embracing the Spiritual Journey of Advanced Directives - The Final Journey with Dr. Stephen Doran M.D. - Discerning Hearts Catholic Podcasts In this thoughtful episode of the Discerning Hearts Podcast, Dr. Stephen Doran joins Kris McGregor to discuss the complex and often emotional journey of end-of-life care. Covering topics from palliative care to the difficult decisions surrounding hospice and pain control, Dr. Doran brings a compassionate perspective to these challenging situations. The conversation delves into the importance of preparing for end-of-life scenarios, emphasizing the need for thoughtful discussion and decision-making well in advance.  They discuss the principle of double effect in medical ethics, which allows for actions that have both good and bad effects, as long as the intention is to bring about the good effect.  The post FJ6 – Insights into Advanced Directives and Catholic Ethical Perspectives – The Final Journey with Dr. Stephen Doran M.D. – Discerning Hearts Catholic Podcasts appeared first on Discerning Hearts Catholic Podcasts.

Securing a Positive End-of-Life Experience through Planning Imagine having the power to dictate the quality and course of your end-of-life care, being able to define what 'quality of life' means for you. This episode explores just that, with expert insight from Suzanne O'Brien, a former hospice and oncology nurse with years of experience in guiding individuals through this deeply personal journey. Dive into the world of advanced directives and the surprisingly non-binding nature of these documents. Discover the power of the POLST form, a tool that can help ensure your wishes are respected when it matters most.  The conversation doesn't stop there. We navigate the significant role your healthcare proxy plays, shedding light on the importance of defining your personal benchmarks for quality of life and establishing clear communication lines with your loved ones. We'll delve into the nine choices advanced directive document, a comprehensive guide that covers everything from who should voice your desires, to the heartfelt messages you want your loved ones to hold onto. Drawing from a poignant tale of a hospice patient, we're reminded of the simple yet profound joys of life and the importance of maintaining that quality until the very end. Let's journey together into this solemn yet empowering topic of end-of-life care planning. You are also invited to join the upcoming Live Learning Lab Workshop to explore these topics further.   We dive into: (04:23 - 05:14) Seeking Legal Advice for Advanced Directives (08:26 - 10:39) Understanding Healthcare Proxies (12:43 - 14:39) Defining Quality of Life and Decision-Making (16:13 - 17:04) Importance of End-of-Life Care Communication (25:15 - 26:38) Choosing a Healthcare Proxy and Post Form (29:08 - 30:19) Creating Sacred End of Life Space (33:34 - 35:16) Redefining Relationship With End of Life   We want to hear from you!!! If you found this podcast helpful, Please Rate, Review, & Follow so we can reach more people.   Links mentioned in this episode: Doulagivers Institute The NEXT Free Level 1 End of lIfe Doula Training Registration LINK - January 18th at 7pm ET The NEXT Free Doulagivers Discovery Webinar - December 14th 80-90% of a positive end of life depends on these two things: Knowing the basic skills on how to care for someone at the end of life and planning ahead - and BOTH Doulagivers Institute is giving you for FREE! Access them Below! Making your wishes known is one of the greatest gifts you can give to your loved ones. Download The Doulagivers 9 Choice Advance Directive now! It's FREE! The Doulagivers Level 1 End of Life Family Caregiver Training AVAILABLE NOW ON DEMAND! Listen Now (edited)    More about what we do at Doulagivers Institute - Click here!  

https://corteslawfirm.com/advanced-directive-living-will/Download our ESTATE PLANNING STRATEGIES TO PROTECT YOU AND YOUR FAMILY  https://geni.us/strategies  https://corteslawfirm.com/estateplanning/Estate Planning for Dummies https://amzn.to/2NNXak7 Aging in the Right Place https://amzn.to/2ZvYavY Estate Planning Basics Ninth Edition https://amzn.to/3s5ZJgm Estate & Trust Administration For Dummies https://amzn.to/3dvLpcZ Find us on SUPER LAWYERSFind us on TikTokFind us on FacebookFind us on InstagramDirections on Google MapsVideos on YouTubeFind us on YELPFind us on TwitterFind us on AVVO Cortes Law Firm5801 Broadway Extension Hwy Suite 110Oklahoma City, OK, 73118405-213-0856 

Expand your understanding of healthcare ethics and AI's future role with our guest, Joe Ivie, Regional Mission Director for Bay Care Health System in Florida, USA.  A life journey that began with a medic's role in the Army, spiraled onto the path of a hospital Chaplain, and culminated in being a Mission Director, Joe's story is a compelling testament of passion and purpose. This episode sheds light on the intriguing workings of the Ethics Committee, discussing the profound importance of advanced directives and patient autonomy. Drawing from his rich experience, Joe explains the critical role of a surrogate in making decisions on behalf of patients, and how this interplays with the four main ethical principles. He highlights the intricate dilemmas faced in healthcare ethics and how the committee navigates these challenges.As we strive to understand the future of healthcare, we delve into the impact of AI on the industry. Weighing the pros and cons of technology, we explore everything from precision in conducting x-rays and scans to the potential of AI replacing human jobs. We further delve into the pivotal role of privacy and the game-changing potential of AI in writing and education. Joe shares his expert perspective on these topics, revealing a fascinating glimpse into the future of healthcare. Listen in and expand your horizons about the ethical and technological dilemmas faced in healthcare.Connect with Mr. Joe Ivie:  mrjoeivie@icloud.com or Alfred Joe Ivie on LinkedIn.Buzzsprout - Let's get your podcast launched! Start for FREEDisclaimer: This post contains affiliate links. If you make a purchase, I may receive a commission at no extra cost to you.Contact us to learn how Belem partners with organizations to elevate the impact of leader and team development.Until next time, keep doing great things!

We talked with:Amy Bloom is the author of four novels: "White Houses," "Lucky Us," "Away," and "Love Invents Us"; and three collections of short stories: "Where the God Of Love Hangs Out," "Come to Me" (a finalist for the National Book Award), and "A Blind Man Can See How Much I Love You" (a finalist for the National Book Critics Circle Award). She is the director of the Shapiro Center at Wesleyan University. Her most recent book is the widely acclaimed New York Times bestselling memoir, "In Love: A Memoir of Love and Loss."Joan McGregor, Ph.D., is a professor of philosophy at Arizona State University where she researches questions in moral and legal philosophy. She researches bioethics and sustainability — and has published more than 50 academic articles and book chapters, several of which focused on end-of-life care.We talked about:In this episode, Dr. Millstine and her guests discuss:The trickiness of dementia diagnosis. Dementia is often realized in retrospect. At first, it's easy to excuse symptomatic behavior as a personality quirk or fatigue. And the person themselves may not fully recognize that their abilities and capabilities are changing. Dementia also looks different person-to-person — affecting executive function, memory and personality to various degrees.The fight for medical autonomy. The rights for medical autonomy have increased. You can refuse care and you can create directions for medical professionals to follow if you become unable to make those decisions for yourself. But those advanced directives aren't always taken seriously, and even states that allow physician-assisted death come with many conditions.Facing the end. Our guests emphasize how important it is to have discussions with your loved ones about what you and they want for end-of-life care — regardless of your age or health status.Can't get enough?Purchase "In Love: A Memoir of Love and Loss."From Bookshop.orgFrom AmazonFrom Barnes & NoblePurchase the Mayo Clinic Press book "Mayo Clinic on Alzheimer's Disease and Other Dementias."Purchase the Mayo Clinic Press book "Day to Day: Living with Dementia."Want to read more on the topic? Check out our blog:Memory lapses: Normal aging or something more?Conversations with the experts: When is forgetfulness a problem? Explaining early-onset dementiaMayo Clinic Q&A: Book focuses on well-being and hope for dementia patients, care partnersCultural shift underway in addressing Alzheimer's diseaseGot feedback?If you've got ideas or book suggestions, email us at readtalkgrow@mayo.edu. We invite you to complete the following survey as part of a research study at Mayo Clinic. Your responses are anonymous. Your participation in this survey as well as its completion are voluntary.

Most people are very uncomfortable with the idea of death and dying and avoid the serious conversations and preparations involved in the process (one which we'll all experience eventually). On this episode of Renoites, we welcome one of the founders of the Doula Co-op, Emily Barney, to talk about what the death industry looks like today, and some of the better ways we can approach and talk about the end of our lives and the lives of our loved ones. Some of the questions we explored were about what the common practices look like today, how the death industry can take advantage of tragedy to exploit bereaved people, what natural death and home funerals look like, what a doula's role is for people who are nearing death (and for those who expect to still have a long life ahead of them), the challenge of burnout for people in highly emotionally demanding jobs, why you need to create a living will TODAY, and much more! If you have suggestions for future guests or topics, please let me know! Email conor@renoites.com Renoites is a fully LISTENER FUNDED project. This show simply can not exist without contributions from listeners just like you! Learn more and contribute a few dollar to help this show become financially sustainable at http://patreon.com/renoites I recently appeared on the Worst Little Podcast! Listen to that episode wherever you get podcasts or at https://www.worstlittlepodcast.com/   Additional Resources and Information: Contact: Emily's website: doulapurposes.com (currently under redesign)  Email: doulabarney@gmail.com   DOULA CO-OP Resources: Website: doulacoop.org Email: connect@doulacoop.org  Death Doula Resources: Melissa Chanselle-Hary, Death Doula sacredtransits.com NEDA (National End of Life Doula Association) - Tips on Choosing an EOLD Going with Grace - death doula training & community, end of life planning support & services organization   Funeral Consumer Alliance  Paying Final Respects: Your Rights When Buying Funeral Goods & Services National Home Funeral Alliance - community death care resources & providers directory Video - Sacred Crossings, home funeral FreeWill - create your own Will today, free! (does not include medical treatment planning) Filing an Advanced Directive with the NV Secretary of State NV Sec. of State - Forms & Resources (including POLST form)

Episode Summary This week on Live Like the World is Dying, Inmn is rejoined by Wōen and Roxanne from the Woven Ends Collective to talk about death, dying, and the work of death doulas. Host Info Inmn can be found on Instagram @shadowtail.artificery. Publisher Info This show is published by Strangers in A Tangled Wilderness. We can be found at www.tangledwilderness.org, or on Twitter @TangledWild and Instagram @Tangled_Wilderness. You can support the show on Patreon at www.patreon.com/strangersinatangledwilderness. Transcript Live Like the World is Dying: Woven Ends on Death & Dying pt. II Inmn 00:15 Hello, and welcome to Live Like the World is Dying, your podcast for what feels like the end times. I'm your host today again Inmn Neruin and I use they/them pronouns. We're back again this week to finish up our chat with Wōen and Roxy from the Woven Ends Collective to talk about death and dying. I'm not sure exactly where the episode got cut in half, but today we're probably going to hear a lot more about caring for people who are dying and the work of a death doula. Like last week, we're talking about some heavy stuff but in the spirit of building more resilient communities that can prepare for the end times together in all ways. And again, we hope that conversations like this can help shift how people talk about death and dying. And, we don't want to bring this stuff up to either romanticize death or to incite fear of death. It's just going to happen. And I know I would like for my circles to have all the resources that they need when I die. And oh please, god, don't embalm me. I really, really, really want to rot. Does this count as a power of attorney? As we learned last week, no, it does not. Content warning again. At some point we talked about the idea of choosing to die from the perspective of being terminally ill. But before we go into it, we are a proud member of the Channel Zero Network of anarchist podcasts and here's a jingle from another show on that network. Doo doo doo doo doo [Singing the words like a melody] Molotov Now 01:48 Yeah, welcome to Molotov Now, a podcast about taking action. Molotov Now 01:59 In Molotov Now, we analyze and discuss news articles and stories of resistance from around the globe and connect them to our struggles here at home in Aberdeen, Washington. Molotov Now 02:09 In the spirit of building solidarity between the rural and the urban, we hope to inspire direct action in the face of oppression and to light a fire to find each other in the darkness. Inmn 02:29 So what is kind of the pathway from like, say that I die tomorrow--I die in a hospital--like what is the pathway between like, I die in a hospital and my friends bury me in our home cemetery? Like, how does the possession of my remains work? Like, in Little Miss Sunshine, are people gonna have to pay to get my corpse? Like, can they get my corpse? Like, how does that work? Wōen 03:04 Yeah, so you don't...you know, whoever is the designated person, so either the next of kin legally or the legally designated healthcare power of attorney who was also your power of attorney over your disposition, they will have the rights to your body, and you do not have to...If you die at a hospital, you're not going to have to pay to have the body released to you. What normally happens is the hospital will give a family a list of funeral homes, and then from there you'd call the funeral home, then the funeral home will do all the transportation. And then, you often won't even see that exchange from the hospital to the funeral home. You'd go to the funeral home and make arrangements and go from there. But, as the person with the rights, you can do all of that yourself. You can go pick them up and drive them to where they need to be. It's--and this is where like educating around things like bodily care and home funerals is really important--because there are logistical things you need to think about with transportation and caring for the body at home. And so, it can be a little daunting to do on your own, but, you know, if there's a lot of people supporting you, it's actually not very hard. Like, the intimidation factor is the hardest part. And, you know, having a vehicle that can get you home and a space where you can do the burial, those are really the next parts. And we all kind of know inherently how to do these rituals. Like once you enter into that space, it's really beautiful like how people just like fall into these different roles that they feel really confident in. And, yeah. So I would say, you know, if you're not going on that normal mode from hospital to funeral home to cemetery, like having a lot of people involved to care for the process is...Yeah, it's very doable and beautiful. Inmn 05:52 Cool. Will--this is a weird logistical question, but I feel like this is kind of, you know, what we're here for--like, say, if I die, and I die in a hospital and like, say my family, chosen family, support network, which, you know, whoever it is, and we're trying to do like a home burial and they're not ready to, you know, take possession of my body, like will the hospital hold on to it for a little while? In like a refrigerator? Like, what if they're not ready for it? What if they like...you know, obviously, I just died. Maybe they need a week to deal with it. But, they don't want me embalmed and want to take possession of my remains. Wōen 06:54 I can't say the exact timeline, I think it's probably a different state by state, but there is a limit on how long a person can stay at a hospital morgue. So that's a good thing to know where you are. But, another good thing to know is that often you can work with funeral homes to just do transportation or cold storage to give you time. And so I think that would be the best pathway is like, "Okay, we're not ready. Let's call a funeral home and just get them to pick our person up and put them in cold storage. And that will give us time to breathe and figure out what we need to do. And then from there, like you can ask them to, you know, transport them to where they need to go or you can pick them up from the funeral home. You can chip away at what the funeral home is offering. And some, you know, sometimes it'll be met with a little resistance. But like, you can have people tasked with advocating, and having more people to negotiate with different parts of the process is really helpful. Inmn 08:18 Yeah, cool. That is good to know. So I feel like we keep going back to this power of attorney. If I get a medical power of attorney, does that extend to my remains? Like does who has my medical power of attorney also have the rights to the...to my disposition, or? Wōen 08:50 Yeah, the answer is yes. And, it's important to get a good Advanced Directive. Some Advanced Directives don't have a section for disposition and it's important to get one that does. Because if it doesn't, then that is a situation where there could be like...Yeah, where if it's contested on who has rights, the advance directive could fall short. So, knowing that your Advanced Directive has that part, that section, in it is really important. Not all do and it sucks. So, figuring out that you have the right kind of Advanced Directive, and a lot of them do, but some of the popular ones--like the Five Wishes, which is really popular--it doesn't have that section in there. You can write it in yourself. But, if you're doing it and don't have guidance and have never done it before, that part can be missed. And then yeah. And then you could lose that right if it gets contested or there's a situation. Yeah. Inmn 10:18 It's so weird that I think that this is like so--and maybe this is part of it is that in my head all of these decisions are these weird legal red tape or I'm like...I'm surprised to hear and, you know, grateful to hear that my friends could just get my body and do whatever...like, do what--not whatever they want with it...Like, hopefully do what I want them to do. [Everyone laughing] But, it's dispelling this myth that I have died and the State owns me, that the State owns my body and the State determines what happens to it. Like, I had this question for y'all where I was like, "Okay, but how do I get my...like...How do I get the name that I go by, and that people know me in the world by, on my tombstone instead of my legal name?" And it's like...it's...because in my head the Social Security Administration is who sends the form to the stone carver to make that and I'm like, "Why do I have these these weird myths in my head about, like, who owns my body?" Wōen 11:40 I mean, because we live in...Like, when we're, you know, quote unquote, "healthy," we're dealing with that every day. Like people owning our time. You know, the Capitalist...Yeah, the Capitalist greed has infected all parts of our body. Yeah, it's really easy to assume that it will affect us after death too. Yeah. And on your note about your stone, like a headstone, yeah, you can put whatever you want on it, honestly. Like, it's up to you and the stone carver and the cemetery. There's no law or regulation around that. It's whoever has the rights of disposition. Inmn 12:35 Yeah, yeah. And I know, Wōen, that you have to go in a second, so I just have this one last question. And, you know, maybe this is more of a Roxy question or...I don't know. So, I can have a home burial. Can I? Can I die at home? Are there complications to me--like legal complications for my friends--to like...Say, I'm having some kind of medical emergency, and my friends know in my power of attorney that I don't want anything done, that there are interventions that are...like that I've like excluded, like CPR or anything, and I'm in a situation where I need CPR. If they watch me die, is that legally complicated for them? Roxanne 13:30 No, actually. Well, I mean, it could be in the way that there would have to be a lot of proving different things. But it's not illegal to die at home. It's also not illegal to choose death. So maybe slight content warning, you know, it's not illegal to choose to die. And, you don't put other people at risk for any kind of weird legal things for being present when, for example, if someone chose to die and you were there, that's not a legal issue. Wōen 14:20 Yeah, yeah. Just to, you know, be mindful that if there isn't a doctor involved or, you know, ongoing palliative care, like hospice, it's considered to be unexpected in a way. So, whenever, like, say you die at home, whoever finds you or that's there, they need to call emergency services, EMS, and usually, you know, you can tell them to come quietly with their lights off, but they'll need to come. And if there isn't a clear, you know, reason or like you can't, you know...Often the medical examiner, or always the medical examiner, will need to be there if there isn't a doctor involved. And then that often means that police can be there too. So it's, you know, if you have the choice to plan on that, just everyone involved, you know, in planning, like create a complete safety plan around that. Because, that will be the response that EMS will need to come and sometimes the police too. Roxanne 15:53 And the situation really varies. Like in Washington State, I volunteer doing medical aid and dying support. So I go and sit with people who have a terminal diagnosis that have been given six or less months left to live and they ingest a medication that ends their life. So like in those situations, you know, doctors have signed off on it. People know. But, folks are absolutely dying at home. And, we have loose terms around what "home" is in that case. But yeah, and in those situations, for example, maybe a patient did have hospice, we'll call hospice. Otherwise, you know, we'll call the medical examiners or you like...You have to notify someone. But yeah, dying at home--and honestly, I know that this can also be like an issue of resources, and this could be a complicating statement--but I feel like if it is possible, and you feel safe to die at home, and the people that are in your home feel safe with you dying at home, that to me, that is a really ideal scenario and is a really comfortable and safe and nice place to no longer have to exist in. Inmn 17:32 Yeah, yeah. Do you have to go, Wōen? Wōen 17:35 I do. Thank you so much. Inmn 17:38 Yeah. If there's any kind of last things that you want to say before you go or like anything you want to plug...But also, we didn't really get into this as much and I would love to have you back on to talk about this, but would love to at some point have you back on to talk more about grief and like mourning. If that's something that you want to talk about. Not now but at a later situation. Wōen 18:09 Totally. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I think we both would have a really awesome perspective on that. Probably different. It's all different. So. Yeah, that'd be sweet. Inmn 18:27 Yeah. Great. Great. Well, thanks so much for coming on. Roxanne 18:31 Yeah, yeah. Hope you have a beautiful day and that it's not too hot. See you. Inmn 18:41 So I wanted to kind of double back on this question that came up before and it's...Yeah, I guess that it's a little unrelated to this, but we keep going back to the medical power of attorney. I feel like this is like the golden point of the episode is get a power of attorney. Inmn 19:08 And does my hospital debt also pass on to my power of attorney or does that? How does hospital debt work? Like, if I die and there are unpaid hospital bills like what happens? Where does that go? Roxanne 19:08 Yes. Roxanne 19:44 Yeah, that's a great question. I don't fully have the answer to that. It wouldn't just go to someone because they're your power of attorney. That would be more like the person who has control of your assets. So, yeah, in those scenarios, the person who has financial control would be the one that would then, you know, is supposed to settle up. But I, honestly, that's not my powerhouse. So I'm not totally sure. Yeah. Yeah, I don't have the answer to that. I'm so sorry. Oh, Inmn 20:46 No worries. You know, I'm here to...I love bringing up questions even if it, even if there's no clear answers to them Inmn 20:55 I was thinking of the situation where, you know, I do love my family. I don't think I want them controlling my remains, which is...I don't think my family listens to the show. So, hopefully, they didn't hear that. But, let's say I, you know, if I, you know, if I hated my family, then, I'm imagining this situation where I've given my medical power of attorney and the rights to my disposition to, you know, my chosen family. And then...but, financially that my assets are still tied to my next of kin. So, I could give all the good parts to my friends and then shirk that debt off on my piece of shit family. Which, you know, that's a hypothetical. I love my family. All my families. Roxanne 20:55 Totally. Roxanne 21:57 Yeah, that's a spicy...That's a spicy suggestion/question. I like it. Inmn 22:05 Yeah. Or, I don't know. It makes me think about like, I had a friend who--this was years and years ago--and I think we were all 22 or something, and they were like, "Oh, I have to go sign these weird documents today." And I was like, "Oh, why?" And they're like, "Oh, my friend is making me the trustee for their life insurance policy." And I was like, "Oh, a 22 year old is getting a life insurance policy?" And they're like, "Yeah, So, if this person accidentally dies, like, I will get a million dollars." And I was like, "Yeah, that is...Okay. Yeah. How do we,"--not how do we scam death because that's not what's going on--but like, I'm wondering, thinking about how do we set people up for if something does happen to us, that instead of inheriting debt, they're getting money or something? I don't know. Roxanne 23:09 Definitely. And there are people thinking of that. And I think it's so cool. And yeah, I think that that could be a really great way to resource a community also, you know? Being like, okay, death is inevitable. Some of us are going to die younger than others. As many of us as we possibly can, like, maybe we should be all throwing together and have kind of like a big mass life insurance thing pool where everyone...You know, to make sure everyone can get a policy. And within that you can, you know, ask that those funds go into whatever community project or, you know, or to people that, you know, that could really benefit from that resource. Yeah, I think that that's really smart. And the cool thing, too, is, you know, obviously, depending on state and depending on the policy, it covers all different kinds of death, including chosen death. And that's not always true. But, there are many cases in which that is true. You just have to have the policy for a certain amount of years or, you know, there's circumstances in which that's also the case, which I think is good to remember. Inmn 24:41 Yeah. Which it's like, obviously, I would...I'm gonna put all of, as many resources as I can, into people in my community not dying. But... Roxanne 24:52 Yes. Inmn 24:53 But, we are, you know, like you said, we are all going to die and unfortunately we do live in a rapidly changing world, and a world that has always been, you know, very dangerous for queer people, for trans people, for people of color, for disabled people, for, you know, all of these different kinds of people. And I...It's like, I never...I just never want...I never want to see a mutual aid or crowdfunding request for extreme funeral expenses, you know? And, because it's like that...it's obviously important to be able to mourn someone and celebrate someone in the ways that they want it or in not rushed ways or in ways that aren't financially ripping people's lives apart. Yeah, I don't know. Yeah, just some things to think about. Roxanne 26:05 Totally. Yeah, definitely. Inmn 26:09 To switch gears a little bit, you have spent a lot of time hanging out with people while they're dying, and I'm wondering if you wanted to talk about that a little bit. I feel like I don't have any super specific questions around that. But, it's something that I'm...something that I'm very unfamiliar with and wish I--I mean, I don't wish that people that I was close to were dying--but, you know, I always want tools for navigating those experiences when they do happen. Roxanne 26:49 Yeah. So I feel like getting to spend time with people in their last few moments is such a special and specific form of intimacy that can't really be recreated. You know, I feel like death workers tend to--and I've also been guilty of this myself--just talk about, like, how beautiful the, you know, this process is and what a gift it is to get to be in the space. And, I believe and agree with all of that. And, I also know that for grieving people, it doesn't always feel beautiful to watch your loved one...You know, maybe their body looks different than you're used to. Or, you know, like to watch someone go through this, sort of change, this metamorphosis. doesn't always feel special and beautiful to people when they're grieving. So I don't...I don't want to negate the heaviness of it. But, I think, you know, in a way, it is really beautiful and it is really special. And, you know, they say that hearing is the last thing to go, so something that I always urge family members, when they're in the room with someone who seems like, you know, like they can't interact with you, they're just breathing and, you know, you can't really like have much interaction with them, is just to talk to them and tell them the things that either, you know, last words that you wish that you could tell them or I think oftentimes dying people want permission, want permission to die. And, you know, if people can, I really encourage them in those last moments, those last bits, to just like, you know, to release someone from this, from this Earthly existence. And I don't, you know, I have...I am not going to speak to whether or not we just die, whether or not there's an afterlife, or, you know, that's not my wheelhouse, but I do know that it feels so nice to know that someone is letting you know that it's okay to go. You know? And, that, you know, people are going to be okay. Like what a relief and what a gift that can be to someone. Yeah. And the whole point of all of this, including, you know, the Advanced Directives and having your disposition stuff figured out, all of this is just to set us up to be able to provide the people that we love more time and space to grieve in ways that feel appropriate for them. You know, the more decisions we make for them about how to deal with the fact that we've died. That's just offering up so much space. And then, people get to really be in their process if, you know, if they can. Sometimes it takes people years to grieve. But, you know, as much as we can set them up for success, I think that's the best case scenario. Inmn 31:07 Yeah. Yeah. I feel like I know the answer to this, but just to vocalize that as a question, like, is it important for a death doula to be close to the person that they are providing end of life care for? And...Or how would, how would you phrase those words, What terms? What terms would you use? Roxanne 31:34 I guess I want to make sure that I understand the question. Like, do you mean physically close? Or do you mean, is it important that the death doula be in relation and community with that person? Inmn 31:50 The latter. Yeah. Roxanne 31:51 Yeah, definitely not. I think that that is a wonderful scenario. And when that can happen, like, what a beautiful gift and the depths that you can go to together in like figuring out this process is just like, even better. But I think, you know, sometimes people really want someone who's kind of removed. Because, some of this, sadly, is our transactional decisions. And sometimes it feels a little too close to home or someone can't be fully honest with someone that they know really well and they want sort of...kind of like a stranger buffer, kind of like why some of us choose therapists, you know? Like, you want this kind of like outside resource that you can reflect and say things that you might not want to say to someone that you really love, you know? I think that it can be a similar thing. So, you know, I think it's great when it can happen, that it be someone that you're close to. And I also understand why some people want it to be a stranger. There's benefits to both. Inmn 33:25 Yeah. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. It's...I feel weird to bring this component into it. And I don't really remember these books. And I've also heard that the author is questionable, like a lot of people in the world. But, there was this concept that, you know, I'm half remembering from a book. Have you ever read "Speaker for the Dead?" [Roxanne makes a sound of negation] It's this book by Orson Scott Card, who...Yeah, I don't know, maybe there's questionable things, I don't know. But it proposed this, you know, this concept of this person who was this speaker for the dead and this person's role was to go around and facilitate these rituals or these processes around people who had died and, you know, they're pointedly like, not even necessarily part of that community. And, you know, they've maybe never...they've probably never interacted with even like the living person. And I, you know, I found that concept super interesting and alluring when I was 12 and reading these books, which is ultimately not really what that book was about, but the concept of a "speaker for the dead" or like...that's maybe not even necessarily like what a death doula is...It was just super interesting and intriguing to me. Roxanne 35:09 Yeah. Yeah, that sounds really cool. The thing that I thought of when you said that was just thinking about like feeling cautious around some of that, like as a white person, making sure that you are not walking into communities of color and trying to tell them how to grieve and what a funerary process can look like and things like that. So yeah, I think it's interesting to think about, like, the outsider piece. And also, yeah. Sounds like that's not what the book was saying. But that's what it brought up for me. Just thinking about...Yeah, I know, I keep mentioning how death work and birth work are so similar, but I think both things have historically been, you know, really white washed, and have been given to more privileged communities, you know? Like, many good forms of care are saved for extreme privilege. But, hopefully we're changing that. Inmn 36:44 Yeah, yeah, totally. Um, one kind of like, I guess, you know, post-life death mourning celebratory experience--flailing for words--Turns out our culture doesn't have a lot of words for talking about these things. Maybe that's part of the problem. Yeah. But like, one thing that I've heard about--I've never experienced one--that I was always like...that sounds amazing. And, you know, I'm not part of this culture. So, you know, I'm not gonna have one or anything. I just think it's beautiful, is the idea of second lines, which are a thing in New Orleans. I don't know if they're specific to New Orleans. Do you know much about second lines? I feel like I'm bringing up a concept... Roxanne 37:34 They're so beautiful. Yeah. I don't feel like it would be appropriate for me to really explain it, because it's also not my culture, but I think that it's such a--I have seen second lines--and I think that it's such a beautiful and, you know, joyous way for community to come together and mourn and grieve together and dance and scream. And yeah, it's such a beautiful ritual. That is what I can say about it, is that it's absolutely such a beautiful ritual. Yeah, and I hope that, you know, we can think of and create more and more beautiful rituals as we go along on ways to both celebrate and grieve at the same time, because those two things really, you know, joy and grief really love each other. We often treat them as opposites, but they are...Because of one, we have the other. And, it's such a beautiful blend. Inmn 37:35 Yeah, yeah. I feel like this is getting into a territory that I absolutely want to talk about more, but I also really want to have y'all back on at some point to talk about mourning and grieving and kind of like post-death experiences. Roxanne 39:12 Would love to do that. Inmn 39:14 Wonderful. So yeah, I don't want to get into it too much. But um...Yeah, are there any other kinds of things about kind of like death doulaing...death--being a death doula, that you want to bring into this into this conversation? I'm sorry, I don't have any...I'm super intrigued by it, but I don't have any super specific questions. Roxanne 39:39 Yeah, totally. You know, the thing that I think I would talk more about but I don't exactly know how to really get it going is to talk about "Death with Dignity," sort of. Like, "Right to Die," stuff, because it is really changing in this country right now. And, it's really exciting. And, there are definitely aspects of it that are contentious. But, I feel really privileged to be someone that has gotten to experience this pretty extreme form of autonomy and self-direction that I find really inspiring and intense and brave. And, I don't really know...You know, it's like my role and capacity as someone who sits with people making these choices isn't as a death doula. It's just as a volunteer, a member of a community, who deeply believes and advocates for the fact that people shouldn't have to die alone. And I think because of this specialization thing that we've touched on a few times, people don't feel confident dying or sitting with people while they die, or, you know, all...pretty much all of the things that we've been talking about in this episode. And I think the more that we're educating each other, the more that we're talking about these things as a community, asking questions, the more confident we will be in approaching these situations and making autonomous, and educated, and self-directed decisions for ourselves. And, that's really the point here is autonomy and self-determination. And as a queer, as an anarchist, you know, like, all of the things that that feels like such an important place, that we're not just trying to figure out the things in our life, but that we're also figuring out those things in our death. Inmn 42:22 Do you--God, this is a weird question--but do you have any tips for people who are...who are sitting with people who are dying, or holding space or like caring for people who are dying, who, you know...people who aren't death doulas? Like say, that person's friends and loved ones. Roxanne 42:46 Totally. Like someone sitting with their grandmother, for just an example or something like that, you know, ask questions, if at all possible. If verbal communication is a possibility, I would ask questions. Touch. Touch each other. I feel like that's such a powerful gift and tool that we can use. You know, I think because we lack the confidence in death and dying, you know, it's almost like, "Oh, somebody just died, Like, I'm not allowed to touch them," like it becomes a crime scene or something. And that's not the case. When my father died, I absolutely climbed into bed and just laid next to him for a long time. And, that felt like such an important part of my healing process. And that might not be true for other people, but yeah, I really encourage people to really, as much as they feel comfortable, to be hands on, ask questions, and if it seems like, you know, if this is a consenting situation. You know, I recorded my dad breathing a lot. Just so that way I could have something when I felt like I really needed that, that I could go back to and listen. And yeah, I think...Yeah, asking questions, inviting vulnerability where you have capacity for, and asking for help. If you need help, that's okay. And I feel like sometimes, you know, sometimes we feel like, "I'm the only one that can handle this." I feel like so often in grief, we really feel like we're the only ones that have been through a situation. And there might be specifics to what we're going through that are specific to our individual situation. But, the more and more people you talk to about this, you know, like, most people have lost someone, have been through some kind of stage of grief. And even if we feel alone, we're not actually alone. And when we find the capacity to open up and let other people into that space of grief with us, you'll find that there are so many people that can share similar experiences with you. But you know, that's all when people are ready. Inmn 45:27 Yeah. Yeah, totally. I like...I'm gonna have a weird moment of vulnerability and honesty with...the world. But, you know, like, I, when I've had people who I have been close to die, like, I have noticed that I like...I shut down a little bit. And it's hard for me to understand how to interact with someone, I think, you know, because of this, like this weird divide that we have around death, this thing where it's like, "Do we do we talk about it? Do we talk about this person dying? Like, you know, with that person?" And I think this thing that I always wonder is I'm like, "What do people want?" Like that...What have you found people want when they're dying? When they're sick? When they have terminal conditions that everyone is aware about? Like? Yeah, what? What do people want? What I imagine they don't want are these awkward conversations where no one's really talking about it or people are hyper focusing on it. And like, I get caught in the...Like, where's the middle ground between those things? And like, personally, I'm like, I don't know, I can be--not like blunt--but just like super willing to talk about awkward things that are in the room. Yeah, I don't know. That's a weird, broad question. But yeah, what do people want when they're sick? Or? Roxanne 47:08 Yeah, I think that's a great question. And obviously, it's gonna depend person to person. And because of that, I think really just, you know, use your active listening skills and follow their lead. It's absolutely okay to ask questions. I feel like, in some instances, people really want to talk about what's going on with them, or the things that they're scared of, or resolving some aspects of conflict. And sometimes, people want to act like it's not happening at all, you know? And sometimes...And a part of that is people holding out, you know, some form of hope that at the, you know, at the 11th hour, something's gonna come in and change their situation. And there's a lot of different reasons for how engaged people do or don't want to be. But, I think it's always okay--You know, people are so worried about saying the wrong thing. And I don't really think that that's...I don't really think that that's possible. I think that as long as you're approaching someone with love, and compassion, and you're not pushing anything, if you get the impression, or someone says that they don't want to talk about something, let them be the guide and don't push it. But, I think oftentimes, you know, people might not want to, you know, constantly be harboring on, you know, the terminal cancer that they have or something. So, you can ask them about aspects of their day that brought them joy, you know? It doesn't have to be--just because someone's dying, that's not the end of their life, until they die. So, you know, there's still a lot of room for joy, and connection, and intimacy that has nothing to do with the inevitability of their situation. And, you know, I think that's true for for grieving people too, which maybe we'll touch on in the future, but I feel like when someone has someone close to them that dies, you know, people might not--oftentimes people don't talk to them about that because they're worried about, you know, bringing up something that feels hard or, you know, they just don't--people are scared of not having the right thing to say. And I think that, you know, asking questions and allowing people space to communicate their needs and desires. And, you know, for me, when I'm sitting with patients' families after they die, one of my favorite questions is to ask them about a story or like to ask them to tell me something that they really loved about that person. And that's, that can be like a really special moment because people, you know, we all like to brag on our people and bring that softness into the room and give people the opportunity to just really express gratitude and joy around the thing that they're, that they're gonna miss. Yeah. Inmn 50:43 Yeah, yeah. It feels like this isn't, you know, too much of a surprise, but from everything that you've just described, it seems like the best way to interact with people is to continue treating them like a person and having these humble and inhuman interactions in ways that you, you know, in the ways that we hope that we're interacting with or treating loved ones in all parts of our life already. Roxanne 51:18 Exactly. Inmn 51:20 But, it's like when death is suddenly a factor, when sickness is suddenly a factor, it's like something changes. And I don't know, does that, does that feel true? Or, I guess, that's something I experience, so I guess it's true. But like, yeah, what do you have to say about that? Roxanne 51:46 Yeah, I think it can change. And I think that keeping our eyes on how those things are changing, you know, is important. Like, maybe you have a close friend who's dying. So, obviously it feels like something is changing. But again, like, as we just said, like treating those people like people, asking about their day, you know, the more kind of mundane things, and yeah, I guess, like...I guess what I was thinking is like, questioning, like, you know, potential for internalized ableism around how things are changing, or why they're changing, and making sure that we aren't projecting that change on to someone unnecessarily. Because things are changing, all the time, every day, in every situation, for all of us. Whether we're facing an imminent life ending situation or not. Yeah, maybe that's not exactly the question that you were asking, but... Inmn 53:09 Oh, no. Yeah, I think that definitely covers it. I thought of this other thing while you were talking about that that was, I feel like, it's like, maybe the thing that changes sometimes is like, when someone, when we know that someone is sick or going to die, or likely going to die, or it's a question in the room, it's like a--this is not the word that I want to use, but I don't know what other word to use--It's suddenly like they are like...God, I really don't want to use this word. Really gonna try to think of another one. Not like a pariah, but like, it's like they're like...It's like a--I can't think of another word to use, so I'm just going to use it--and obviously this word has like different contexts--but it's like almost like an othering experience where like, this person is suddenly just something else. And--or like an alien. That's also not the word but like... Roxanne 54:24 Fragile? Is it fragile? Inmn 54:26 Yeah, maybe fragile? Roxanne 54:28 Yeah, I think, you know, giving space for the potential of fragility makes sense. But, I think it's also really important to not treat people like they're fragile just because they're dying or just because they're extremely sick, unless they have signified to you that that is a way that they want be interacted with. You know? I think I've definitely heard that a lot, especially from, you know, I was an oncology nurse for a long time. And I feel like I heard that a lot of my oncology patients were just being like, "Yes, I have cancer. Yes, I'm fucking dying. No, I don't want to be treated like I'm, you know, suddenly incapable of making decisions for myself or like everything is gonna hurt me or..." you know? Like, yeah, they're the--I think that it is really, you bring up a really good point about the othering aspect, and I think that that's like, from my understanding, a lot of what disability justice stuff is working on, is trying to shift the narrative of that othering. And, because... Inmn 56:02 Yeah, because that's like, that's a big thing for disability communities in our society is that they kind of get othered in this way or like... Inmn 56:15 I don't know, is that...We don't have a ton of time, but I would love to, if you have anything to say about bringing kind of that lens into this conversation of death, dying, and the conjunction with disability. It could be a larger conversation...Yeah, it could be an entire... Roxanne 56:15 Yeah. Roxanne 56:36 It could be its own...That is a very very large conversation. But, I think as far as how we treat each other, just yeah, really following people's lead and believing them when they say how they do or don't want to be treated. And that's true for all forms of living. That's true for all forms of dying, you know? Just making sure that we're checking ourselves, not projecting our own sense of urgency on each other, and just letting those people--meaning in this situation, people that are dying--you know, direct how things go. And yeah, there's really so much that can be said on that topic. And I'm so happy that you touched on it. Inmn 57:35 Yeah, I feel bad just touching on it. But it's kind of like where the conversation ended up flowing. But, which...Yeah, I guess. Yeah, I guess what I would just love to say about in this more brief context is that it seems like a lot of things that are applicable to the world of death and dying are things that disabled people have been talking about for a very long time already and like doing a lot of work around. Obviously, they're not the same things, but they're, seems like there's similar things that come up in both of these situations. And yeah, we should do a different other episode about that whole conversation. Roxanne 58:34 Yeah, there's so much to be said. And this is a really important thing to talk about. So yeah. Mhmm. Inmn 58:43 Yeah. Um, with that, we are kind of coming up on the end of our time for this, what turned into a two-parter episode, as much as I would love to make it a three parter episode, I probably can't talk for another hour. But yeah, obviously, I would love to have you and Wōen, and or like other people from Woven Ends to come back on and like talk about grief and mourning and celebration even. Yeah, and I just want to mention this because it's a piece--obviously, we could do a whole episode about this too. There's so many things to talk about. But, so you used to do a workshop about death and dying. And, that's actually what got me interested in doing this episode is that I went to one of these workshops, you know, years and years and years ago. And, as we've been doing this podcast, it's been this constant question in my mind, is like, "How do we prepare for death as a community?" And you know, maybe we can do an episode in the future that's just about that. But, there's this little piece from it that I just want to bring into this conversation that I, you know, probably could have gone in a different spot of the talk. But, obviously, we need to...The important thing is to have conversations as a community about death, about dying, about preparing to die, or preparing to get sick, or preparing to have some large life changing thing happen. And one of the things that that brought up for me was this idea that like, you know, a lot of people, especially queer and trans people, have some amount of separation between their lives and their biological family or the family that raised them, and these worlds can look very different. Like, a lot of us can build these separate worlds where we're these two different people depending on how out we are to our biological families or families that raised us. And, it brought up this big thing for me where I was like, "Oh, one big conversation that I need to have with my friends and my chosen family is how to talk to the people that raised me and my biological family, like two groups of people that I love, but two groups of people that I have very different and separate relationships with. And, you know, for other people, thinking about things like, does your...if your chosen family and your biological family, if they have to interact, does your biological family or the people that raised you, like, do they know what name you go by? Do they know that you're queer? Do they know that you're trans? Do they know that...Like, what gaps in information are there and having conversations with your friends now about like things that they might have to deal with if you get sick or die, in having those conversations with people who might--Like it might be great and civil and wonderful and everything goes really, really well and it's really joyous. Or, it might be incredibly conflictual and difficult. And, yeah, not really a question. Just a piece that I really wanted to bring it into the conversation. Roxanne 1:02:43 Yeah, definitely. And like, yeah. I think as much information as you can give your chosen family about how you want those interactions to go, you know. Some people are, you know, out to their community, but aren't out to their family and would like to remain not out to their family. And, that's okay. And, I think as a form of respect, you know, people need to use names and pronouns that are consistent with what someone is asking for in those situations. And, again, that is one of the many reasons why these conversations are so important. And again, just to keep plugging Advanced Directives, is why Advanced Directives are so important. And, you know, if we can write down even--if for some reason you don't feel like you can have those conversations with your family or your community, you know, you can write it down and, and give someone a sealed envelope that's like, "In case I die, please read this. This is how I want things...This is how I want to be talked about. This is how..." you know, because I believe and really trust at the end of the day that people want to honor you in the ways that you want to be honored and do really want to respect you and make decisions that are good and safe for the individual as well as the community. Inmn 1:04:33 Yeah. Yeah. Cool. Well, do you have any other last last things to say, anything that we didn't talk about, any questions that I should have asked you that I didn't? Roxanne 1:04:46 I don't think so. I just want to thank you so much for opening the space. I know that it is really a hard thing for people to talk about. You know, when we talk about death, generally, it's hard not to think about death, specifically, in our own circumstances. And, dealing with the fact that other people die means that we have to deal with the fact that we're going to die. And yeah, it just feels really special to be in communication with you about this. And yeah, I just, I feel really grateful that y'all were willing to open the space and this dialogue. And yeah, I just, I really feel like it's important. And, yeah, special. And I feel so grateful. Thank you so much for this. Inmn 1:05:46 Yeah, totally. Thank you so much. It's been a pleasure. I love talking about these things. And I'm so glad that there's people doing so much really amazing work around opening up these spaces and maintaining these spaces. And yeah, yeah. I don't know. Obviously, the work that you've already done to do that has made it so that I want to bring these conversations into this space of community preparedness. So yeah, thank you. Roxanne 1:06:22 Yay. Inmn 1:06:23 Is there anywhere on the internet that you would like to be found or that Woven Ends would like to be found? The answer can be, "No. Don't find me." Roxanne 1:06:39 Currently, no for Woven ends, and honestly, no, for me too, I do have an old death doula Instagram account that I used to refer people to, but I don't really use it. It's not a good resource tool. So, no. Inmn 1:06:59 I love it. I love when people can't be found and shouldn't be found on the internet. Roxanne 1:07:05 But if people have dire questions--Gosh, we really should have some kind of email or something. Maybe I can send that to you? Inmn 1:07:18 Yeah. Yeah, we can put some stuff in the show notes. Roxanne 1:07:21 Some sort of way for people. Yeah. Because I don't. Yeah. If people want to, I don't have a quick like, "Here's my Twitter handle." Inmn 1:07:35 Thank God. Yeah. Got it. Yeah, if you have anything, send it to us. We'll throw it in the show notes. The episode is not going to come out for a couple weeks, probably. Yeah. Cool. Thank you so much for coming on. And we will see you and Wōen back, hopefully soon, to talk more about this. Roxanne 1:07:58 Definitely. Thank you. Have a good day. Inmn 1:08:07 Thanks so much for listening. If you enjoyed this podcast, please live like you will die. Because we all will. But more importantly, talk to your community, your families, your friends, your ancestors, about death because having these conversations doesn't have to be scary and having them now can really make a difference in other's lives and for our end of lives. You should also tell people about the show, you can support this podcast by telling people about it. 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Episode Summary This week on Live Like the World is Dying, Inmn is joined by Wōen and Roxanne from the Woven Ends Collective to talk about death, dying, death work, and everything from how to determine who gets to make decisions about your end of life, to how to have your remains dealt with in the manor that you would like, to how to bring community collaboration into death. Next week, they continue the conversation, focusing mostly on the work of death doulas. Host Info Inmn can be found on Instagram @shadowtail.artificery. Publisher Info This show is published by Strangers in A Tangled Wilderness. We can be found at www.tangledwilderness.org, or on Twitter @TangledWild and Instagram @Tangled_Wilderness. You can support the show on Patreon at www.patreon.com/strangersinatangledwilderness. Transcript **Live Like the World is Dying: Woven Ends on Death & Dying Part I ** **Inmn ** 00:15 Hello, and welcome to Live Like the World is Dying, your podcast for what feels like the end times. I'm your host for today Inmn Neruin and I use they/them pronouns. Today we're talking about something that we sort of reference all the time on the show, and that is death, a thing that we should all live like is going to happen someday. Because it is. I wanted to have Wōen and Roxy on to talk about this because I found myself thinking about it more and more as things change evermore rapidly in our world. And, I think it's cool to talk about because it's just another form of community preparedness that we can all engage in to make our end of lives easier for ourselves and for the people that we care about, and in general, just demystify the topic as we figure out how to leave this world, whether that pertains to navigating funerary industries, medical industries, legal logistics, medical interventions, the choice to die at home, how to have home burials, how to care for the dying, and how to have these conversations as a community. A content warning, obviously, we're going to be talking about some heavy stuff, and we approach it with some amount of levity, but we do talk at some point about the idea of choosing to die from the perspective of terminal illness. But before we get into it, we are a proud member of Channel Zero network of anarchists podcasts, and here's a jingle from another show on that network. Doo doo doo doo doo. [saying these sounds like a song melody] Wōen **Inmn ** 02:43 And we're back. Thanks, y'all so much for coming on the show with us today, especially to talk about a subject that I feel like is like a little bit more grim than we usually talk about. Or, I guess we kind of always always talk about it, but we never actually talk about it. So yeah, would you like to introduce yourselves with your names, pronouns, and kind of like what you do in the world? **Wōen ** 03:17 My name is Wōen. I use he/him pronouns. I work in grave care, so burial, and generally any rot-honoring practice that I can help with. **Roxanne ** 03:41 And my name is Roxanne. I am a nurse and have been doing end of life, and death doula sort of work outside of that, for maybe 15 years or so. Yeah. **Inmn ** 04:01 Cool. And y'all are part of a collective that kind of specializes in this kind of work. Would y'all want to introduce that now or we could talk about it later? **Wōen ** 04:17 Yeah, no, we can introduce it now. Our collective is called Woven Ends. We're more recently becoming more outward facing. We're a collection of death care practitioners and community members who are interested in helping the community. We are focused on combating the domination and alienation in our world through making our death rites and the care for the dying more autonomous and a lot more intimate. **Roxanne ** 05:08 And accessible. **Inmn ** 05:12 Cool. Um yeah, it's weird how much the State is like intertwined in death. And that's like not...I feel like that's not something I ever realized until I realized it and then I was like, "Oh, like can you die without the State being involved?" **Wōen ** 05:35 Like the bureaucratic storm is also guided by the industry and a lot of the rituals that we have now and the way that death operates is it's a contrived effort, the funeral industry, to deal with all aspects after death. So, it's a really troubling, difficult thing that families and loved ones navigate. **Roxanne ** 05:35 No. **Roxanne ** 06:14 Yeah, it's pretty devastating. It's like Capital will take hold and commodify any and every aspect of our life possible and not even our life but our afterlife as well. Like yeah, it's hard to believe in true freedom sometimes, but that's why we're here fighting for it. **Inmn ** 06:38 Yeah, I feel like...Whatever, I'm gonna take like a pretty like light hearted and like whimsical tone today because we're talking about something grim, but I feel like we have these ideas that like, "You know, the State's got me in life, but at least when I die I'll be free," and it's like maybe? I mean, your body won't be. **Roxanne ** 07:14 Sadly, no. Eventually Yes but initially, no. **Inmn ** 07:22 Yeah, I feel like that is a literal nightmare of mine. Could y'all kind of break down like what is death work? Like what is a death doula? What is the Woven Ends collective kind of like do in like a material or emotional way? **Roxanne ** 07:50 Well, I can speak towards death doula work. What a death doula is, is a little undefined. And there are powers that be that are trying to make it more defined and kind of like more commodified. But basically, a death doula is someone who helps a family or a loved one sort of like go through the process. So that could look like, before someone dies, helping come up with some like legacy project, some things that people want to leave behind, or how someone wants to be remembered. So, that could be like, you know, if a 40 year old who has three kids dies, kind of legacy work you could do with someone in that situation is like, you know, help them record videos for their kids' future birthdays, you know, stuff like that so that way when their kids get older, like hit those milestones, they can have this video from their parent that has been gone for a while. So yeah, just kind of like, you know, one aspect is focusing on legacy work. Another aspect is just kind of like emotionally helping people with the grieving process, whether that be the person who's actually passing away or the family sort of like talking through the process of all of that with them. And then, you know, other aspects could be more helping set up funerary services, trying to help work on community aspects of disposition. Yeah, death doula is...It's sort of that the individual does different things. And I think if someone's interested in having a death doula, I would really ask questions about what specific services they provide. **Wōen ** 09:59 Yeah, And I can speak more to like our collective. We definitely, we try to connect the right people to help different community members. So, that could be a death doula or even a grave digger. So, a lot of what we do is like guidance around the whole process. And we definitely want to like expand our scope completely to be able to care for the whole process. But most of what we've been doing in the past, and currently, is helping folks with finding burial options that are accessible and hopefully free. And we've been able to create a network of free home burial grounds where we live. And it's been really awesome to be able to provide this for free. And it usually is in tandem with a lot more care going on with death doulas and generally the radial support that happens when you're trying to create a more autonomous situation. **Roxanne ** 11:28 I would also say that a part of the sort of intentional death work thing is to really help communities and individuals kind of like shift narratives towards death. We live in a really deathphobic society. And it is a thing that I think...you know, like, even in our introduction, we're like, "Okay, so this is a really grim topic," but it's interesting, because it's one of, you know, aside from being alive, it's the only other thing that everyone is going to experience, like the one thing that even if you have nothing in common with somebody else, the fact that you're going to die is a thing that you have in common. And so I feel like there's a lot of room for connection there. And, a part of the sort of work is to try to like, you know, find connection, find community, and sort of shift the narrative around this very natural and inevitable thing that's going to happen, and open up room and space for there to be beauty and transition in that instead of just fear. Because I think oftentimes, people don't actually...They're not scared to die. They're scared of being in pain. And those are very different things. So I think, yeah, just like...death workers offer a space for us to really intentionally look at that and say, like, "Okay, you're feeling scared? What is it that you're scared of?" You know? And really helping shift that narrative and also hopefully providing a space where nobody has to die alone. You know, sometimes that's just going to happen, but if at all possible, making sure that we can provide space--unless someone wants to--but they don't have to die alone. **Inmn ** 13:32 Yeah, we do live in a really deathphobic society. And I...you know, obviously it's a sad and hard and difficult thing, but I feel like I have always wished that there...that we as a culture did have different attitudes or different ways that we deal with it, or grieve, or like mourn, or whatever. I don't know, I've just had a couple kind of funny funerary experiences, where I was like, "Are we celebrating this person's life? Or are we mad at them because they didn't tell anyone how sick they were?" And that just like...Yeah, just like a lot of funny experiences like that. Whereas, I wish that we were, I wish we had, that we had a different attitude towards this right now because I'm not sure if this attitude is like helping anyone. **Roxanne ** 14:43 Yeah, definitely. And I think you bring up a good point too, where because of deathphobia but also because of our obsession with what we consider health, sometimes people are so scared to admit that they're sick because there's so little support and resource around that. And people don't want to be, you know, a burden to each other. And instead of being angry at our friends because they wouldn't tell us how sick they are, it's a great time to, you know, take a moment and be like, "Okay, why do we live in a world in which someone that I loved very much could not tell me how sick they were? And like, how do I fight that world instead of my friend?" **Inmn ** 15:37 Yeah, yeah, totally. You mentioned earlier--I just want to like hit on this before we get too far away from it--but there being some effort to make being a death doula more of a defined thing? And I'm--I know, this is subjective--but is that a good thing? Is that a bad thing? Is that a complicated thing? **Roxanne ** 16:01 I mean, in my personal opinion, I'm not for that. I feel like the way...like I understand and respect people wanting to figure out how to do this work and still...Like, it makes sense to me that people want to do this work in a permanent way in this world that we live in, this society of capitalism, like people need to get paid for their time in order to survive. Like that makes sense to me. But, I think that there can be a kind of predatory nature to it. And these...It's like the commodification of the death, dying, death doula world is really similar to what happened in the birth community. And I think that's kind of interesting that the link between the two, because people have been doulaing each other since people were...were born about how to do these things. And, if we lived in communities where we were interacting with birth and death in more tangible ways then we wouldn't need sort of outsiders to tell us how to do these things. But yeah, I think that the certification process doesn't make sense. I think it's just another platform of institutionalization and commodification that isn't necessary, you know? It's like, okay, a lot of these certification organizations are offering education, which is amazing, yes. Like, education is so important. But the real education--and I feel like I learned this in nursing school, too--like, you can learn all the ins-and-outs of things, but where you're actually going to learn is through experience. So like, you want to learn how to be a death, doula? Go volunteer for hospice. Like, go watch people die and you will learn so much just from having that experience or like, you know--and not just hospice. You know, there's a lot of ways that people can sit with people at the end of their life. But, you know, like you don't need to pay someone to teach you how to be an active listener. **Wōen ** 18:37 Yeah, and I think...Like in the realm that I work in--which is what they call green or natural burial--like it's all the same pattern of pushing towards professionalization and specialization, and it's being co-opted by the Capitalist system. Even though a lot of these cemeteries that are providing this like really beautiful practice, they didn't intend on that and they structured themselves as a nonprofit. So they just continued to fall into the trappings of what happens when you professionalize something. And now there's overarching regulatory institutions and it's just...It makes it really hard to get into the process and start a cemetery and...Yeah, and they're walking hand-in-hand with the rest of the funeral industry, so, like annually increasing prices for these rituals that were supposed to be a lot more accessible and ecological, but they're not. They're not accessible. **Roxanne ** 20:07 Totally. And I feel like this...Yeah, this focus on specialization really, you know, negates and alienates the fact that we have inherent wisdom as to how to handle these situations. And then when we can't accept or like don't have--courage isn't the word that I'm looking for--confidence in our own, you know, kind of inherent wisdom, then we feel like we need a specialist to tell us what to do, but it's all right there inside of us in information that we can pass down with each other through, you know, actually having a relationship with death, and dying, and disposition, and all the things. So I feel like, yeah, the more we can be connected and like with death, honestly, the better we can be with life also. **Wōen ** 21:11 Yeah, and when we say, "disposition," we mean burial, cremation, you know, being eaten by birds, everything. It's a general term. **Inmn ** 21:27 Yeah, yeah. I feel like...it's fun to use this as the thing to compare it to, but, you know, I think it's important for us to like have, you know, guides through hard times or like people to...people who are very familiar with or versed in leading these experiences or facilitating these experiences, and it's...like, what you were just describing of kind of like what the Death industry is, it reminds me of a like boutique coffee shop or something. Yeah, like turning death and ritual into a boutique coffee experience that is just another strange industry that maybe people feel better about, but, yeah, I don't know. I don't know how much actual connection or like community building that is doing? **Roxanne ** 22:36 Totally. Yeah. That makes a lot of sense. Yeah, it's a similar thing. Yeah. And again, they did that with the birthing community too. It's, yeah, it's sad. **Wōen ** 22:50 Yeah, and, you know, like with organic foods. **Inmn ** 22:57 Yeah. To kind of switch gears a little bit, why is it important to think about this stuff now? Like, why is it important to think about dying? Why should we be having these conversations as a community? **Wōen ** 23:16 Yeah, I mean, I think it's always been important when you want a culture that renews itself, and especially now when we're facing intense upheaval, developing a deeper intimacy with death, it helps us claim a place, and claim ancestors, and develop a deeper resilience to the chaos in our world. Like when thinking about movements and how under the regime of alienation, and the lack of intergenerational connection, and especially like connection to our ancestors, like, things can really be thwarted without those connections to place or to the people that came before. Yeah, and so being able to be with the unexplainable and unknowable aspect of like... **Roxanne ** 24:47 I think now, as Wōen was just saying, it's so important because we are living in pretty devastating times. It's pretty obvious, I think, to most people with what's going on with the climate, you know, with ecological destruction getting worse very viscerally year by year and not just in one place but all across the world where people are really...You know, you live in Arizona...Wait, maybe I shouldn't say that... **Inmn ** 25:33 I've said it multiple times. **Roxanne ** 25:38 Yeah, well, for example, you live in a place that in the summer if someone accidentally tripped and fell, they would burn themselves on the ground and potentially have to go to the burn ICU. Like, that wasn't true five years ago and it's just only going to become more true for more places across the world. And I think, yeah, just really taking inventory of the trajectory that the world is on right now means that we're...When you're living on a dying planet, you're gonna have to deal with the fact that we are a part of that planet and not separate from that. And I think also, you know, the question of "Why now?" is, like, both a societal question and then also kind of an individual question because I think...You know, I am 39 years old. I think most people in their 20s, 30s, 40s, even 50s aren't really thinking, and hopefully, you know...People even younger than that obviously, need to be thinking about this stuff, too. But I think that, you know, often the more like normative stance--which is also partially a bliss--is just to be like, "Oh, you know, if I have a fine bill of health then why should I be concerned about these things?" And we all know people die unexpectedly. We all know our relationship to health, and all the different forms that that can look like, can change at any moment. We all know that life isn't just inevitable. And so I think really thinking about these things and really starting to prepare for these things is one of the best things we can do to help not just, you know, those around us when we die, but also to help inform how we live our lives. No matter what age you are, I think it's important to be thinking about and talking about. I've been having conversations, for example, with my mom about the fact that she was gonna die since I was like five years old. And then at some point, I was like, "Oh, wait, if you're dying, that means I'm dying too. Shit, I'm gonna have to think about this." **Inmn ** 28:23 Yeah, what does? You know, this is the fun moment where we get to say the name of the podcast in a question, but how does one live like they're dying? Like, what does that mean? **Wōen ** 28:40 I mean, I think it's understanding that ecologically and spiritually the dead make the world. Our ancestors are not just like our [uninterpretable. "In our dirt?"]. They're what came before use. They're everything we eat, and breathe, and even conceive of, and dream of. So, it's fully opening our minds to understanding the deep cycle of life. **Roxanne ** 29:17 Yeah. And, you know, some intentionality, recognizing that the things that we do and how we treat ourselves and each other do matter, you know? Like they do matter because we are people experiencing each other. Or, they don't matter in the way that we are tiny pieces of sand floating around on this huge rock in this ginormous atmosphere. You know? It's like it's both. Both things are happening at the same time. We are a multitude it turns out? Both how we are and who we are matters and also doesn't at all. But I think just like really honoring the fact that it's a limited resource, that life is actually a limited resource, and that the time that we spend together is also limited, and trying to really love people while you can, to be brave enough to really love the people in your life while you can. **Inmn ** 30:32 Yeah, I feel like we have such a...our culture has such a focus on the concept of "later" and the future that like...And you know, this is maybe obvious because a lot of the society that we live in is founded on this idea of...or like founded by people who are informed by a religion that embraces an afterlife that...and something I've really appreciated about--I'm not necessarily an atheist--but like something I've always appreciated about atheism is that it is weirdly pro life and pro living in this way where it's like, "Yeah, there's nothing after this so you gotta do what you want to do now, not later. **Wōen ** 31:32 Yeah that's kind of...I mean, I think the Christian worldview is inherently disassociating from your body? Yeah. Not a good place to start. **Inmn ** 31:53 Yeah, just to switch gears a little bit, I want to talk a little bit more about the logistics of death. So, something that I think about a lot is like, if, you know, if I get sick tomorrow, if I get in an accident tomorrow and like my condition suddenly changes like rapidly, and I have feelings about how I want...like what interventions I want taken or how I want...Let's start with interventions. And then we'll move on to other bits, but how do I prepare for that? How do I prepare for getting the...having the interventions that I want taken or not taken? Or, how do I get to choose who gets to make those decisions when I'm no longer able to? **Wōen ** 32:59 So, the simplest answer to that would be to complete an Advanced Directive that's legally binding. And so this designates the person who will be your advocate legally, to make choices at the end of life and after death. Yeah, and this ends up...Yeah, this supersedes the legal next of kin, which without designating the power of attorney, will be your biological family. So this is really important if you don't want them to be in charge of what you want to happen to you at the end of life or after your death. **Inmn ** 34:00 Do you have something to add to that Roxy? **Roxanne ** 34:02 I do. I think that I just wanted to add that making choices around your health care power of attorney, like who that person should or could be, I think sometimes there can be a lot of pressure from people that are close to you that just because you're close with someone that they should be the one to help make those medical decisions for you. But, I would like to argue that maybe that's not always the best person. What you want in these situations is someone who will follow the directive that you lay out, because just because you have this document stating how you would like for things to go, at the end of the day, the healthcare power of attorney actually gets to make the final call. So maybe you say, you know, "CPR is okay. But I don't want to be intubated." At the end of the day, if your healthcare power of attorney decides, "I want them to be intubated," despite what your paperwork says, they can intubate you. So you really want to pick someone who can...who you think will follow what you've asked for and also someone who, even if they don't have the information themselves, will educate themselves or ask the right questions to make decisions that they think you will want. And it's also I think good to think about, you know, if, for example, you think your partner is going to be so worried and like so in a process of grief, that maybe they're not the one to choose because maybe it's better for them to just to get to be in the grief process and not having to make these big decisions. I've seen so many times in the hospital where the family feels like if they choose to, quote unquote, "Pull the plug," that they're the ones that killed their loved one, not whatever, you know, situation their person was in or just that the bodies can only handle so much. And I think that, yeah, giving someone healthcare power of attorney is--I'm not going to say it's a burden--but there is definitely the potential for weight behind that and it is a serious question. It's not...it's not a popularity contest. It's not about who you like the most. It's about who you really think can help make the decisions when they need to be made or who's going to be brave enough to call it when it needs to be called. **Inmn ** 37:24 Yeah, yeah. That makes sense. **Wōen ** 37:27 Yeah, I think that just kind of reveals the need for, you know, models of anarchist mutual aid where we all support each other. And it's like, being able to have these conversations and support each other outside of these really normative pathways of the nuclear family. And yeah, breaking that prescription on... **Roxanne ** 38:04 I guess I just wanted to add that, for sure, if you want to make sure, as as close as is possible...If you wanted to make sure as much as what's in your capability that your wishes are going to be met with interventions, having an Advanced Directive is the only real way to do that legally. So, if you don't feel like, as Wōen was saying earlier, if you don't feel like you fully trust your family to do the things that you would want to do, you have to have that written down. You have to have it notarized. You really have to go through that process. It's really important. **Inmn ** 38:45 Yeah, and then it seems what is kind of equally as important is having those conversations with your community and with whoever you're designating as your power of attorney, so that like...Yeah, it's like, I'm imagining in this situation that you've built where like, your partner might not be the best person, so you make this Advanced Directive and you designate someone, who's maybe not your partner, as the power of attorney, and then it seems like you have to then have conversations with that person, or with your community as a whole, about what you want. And then...Like, I'm imagining this situation where you do that and then it's like--so it's not entirely falling on one person--maybe one person has to legally make those decisions, but like other people can support them or like it can be a little like network of support that like kind of helps hold people to like what your best wishes were? Does that kind of make sense? **Wōen ** 39:53 Absolutely. And it's like…an Advanced Directive is not all encompassing. Like, being able to guide the types of rituals you want and...Yeah, like, every little detail that you want, you should be able to have, but you have to have those conversations and they have to be on going with as many of your loved ones as possible. So, the Advanced Directive is kind of a way to safeguard against the powers that be from taking control of your life and your death. But, it [hard to tell, but probably "lasts"] like a lot of other guidance that relies on being able to talk about it. **Inmn ** 40:42 So, this is something that I was kind of thinking about with this is like if...So, say maybe that in this hypothetical that I don't have like the best relationship with my parents, or say I have a fine relationship with my parents who are still alive, but I don't think they would make the best decisions, so I designate someone from, you know, my chosen family network to be my power of attorney. But then, you know, I get sick. I get into an accident. And suddenly, my family, my biological family and my chosen family, are in the same room. Is there? I imagine those situations can get pretty contentious, especially for my biological family to find out that they do not have the power of attorney. Like, I guess, obviously, you should maybe have those conversations with your family, but like I...You know, I would rather...I would rather not have that conversation with my family where I'm like, "Hi, I have taken away your medical power of attorney over me." But I also don't want to like necessarily entirely pass that off to my friends to deal with. Like...I don't know, have you like seen situations like that that were contentious, went well, or like, do you have any tips for navigating that? **Wōen ** 42:24 Well, I mean, in different forms I've seen it. I think it's important to say, once you have your power of attorney designated the family no longer have...like, they don't have control. The power of attorney does. And so like in a situation like you're describing, I think, the idea of communal care comes in, where you can have...Like, maybe the person who is your health care advocate isn't necessarily the one who is negotiating with the family or mediating. Just having more people involved to take care of the situation, I think is the best advice I can give. **Roxanne ** 43:20 Yeah, I would say, you know, I always push towards tending towards collaboration when possible. So if someone's family is just absolutely unwilling to work with, you know, the chosen family or the person who has power of attorney then honestly that situation actually just hurts them more. So, I think as much as people can collaborate, the better. And recognizing and appreciating the fact that everyone in a situation is going through some kind of fear and grief, and we don't always behave our best in those situations. So, trying to be generous with each other and give each other time and space to--you know, I'm not saying you have to deal with someone using abusive language towards you or anything like that--but just, you know, recognizing that this can be a real space of grief and that collaboration might not seem possible at first and then it is. I've had situations where collaboration seemed really possible. And then the friend's family member flipped out and tried to get us all kicked out of the hospital. This is before I was a nurse and was just a really kind of traumatic situation for everyone but ended up--like this is actually the situation that really got me on the tip of like, "Oh, we have to have Advanced Directives. This is like imperative." But yeah, I think, as Wōen already said, as much as people can work with each other and collaborate, even if you've been told stories throughout your whole friendship with someone about, you know, what a monster their parent is, or whatever, just like focus on the task at hand, which is helping your friend get safe, and accessible, and good care for as long as they can. And if you need the family to be a part of that, great. And if a family has to go--because sometimes the family's gotta go--you get to make that call. And it's like, if they gotta go, they gotta go. But hopefully that won't be the case. I think it's just...like from a harm reductionist standpoint. **Inmn ** 46:02 Yeah, yeah. Does a family have any legal recourse against a power of attorney? Like, I can imagine a family believing that they have some kind of legal recourse, but like could they sue people? Could they challenge it? **Wōen ** 46:22 I mean, I'm gonna say, no. I know that that happens like a lot of legal challenges happen. But in the moment, I think, what should guide is that health care and funeral services will honor the healthcare power of attorney. So yeah, I think that that is a risk in a really contentious situation, but it is not likely that the healthcare system or the funeral professionals will dishonor the Advanced Directive. **Roxanne ** 47:12 And it might be a situation, like in a hospital sort of setting, it might be a thing where they kind of set up a mediation with an ethics board sort of thing. But at the end of the day, the legal document is the legal document. Yeah. **Inmn ** 47:30 Yeah. And, I'm imagining that the answer to this is along a similar lines, but like, in the reverse situation, if I don't have a power of attorney designated or an Advanced Directive, but I have, you know, my friends that I've had these conversations with about this or I have a journal entry or something about this, I'm guessing that doesn't have...like, at the end of the day, it's the the family or the next of kin, whoever has been legally designated has all of that power to make those decisions? **Wōen ** 48:07 Yeah, and again, that's where a united community who can help, you know, maybe approach the family to be able to negotiate or collaborate. Yeah, that would be the right place to start. But also, if that's not possible, knowing that you can still hold space for your grief as a community even if you're separated from the actual process of dying and death, and that you can enact the depths of meaning that you need and connection with each other. Yeah. **Roxanne ** 48:07 Yeah. **Inmn ** 49:02 Um, to kind of switch gears a little bit, this is a weird question. God. How much does it cost to die? Like obviously, you know, if you do die then that expense is not going to be your responsibility, but I'm imagining this situation like from--I don't know if y'all have seen that movie Little Miss Sunshine. [Roxanne makes an affirmative noise] But like, the grandpa dies, and they're like, "It'll cost this much money to get the body," and they're like, "We don't have that." So, they steal the body. Yeah, how much does it cost to die and have your remains something or anothered? I don't know what...I don't know what a good word is. **Wōen ** 49:55 Yeah, yeah. I mean, I can definitely speak to after death. I think the national average has risen, but like a few years ago it was around $8,000 to do a really normal funeral service like burial. More and more people are choosing cremation because it is cheaper, even though it is getting more expensive. And the average cremation cost is anywhere from $1000 to $3000 based on what type of package you buy from the funeral home. There's a lot of ways that funeral homes can be predatory. Not all funeral homes are predatory, but the vast majority are. And every year it gets more expensive. So yeah, it just depends on your form of disposition. So like, if you're doing cremation it's gonna be a lot cheaper. But often people choose that because it's cheaper, not because of thoughts of that's exactly what they wanted, you know? They're thinking about the financial situation of the family, and yeah, it shouldn't be that way. They should have the type of ritual and disposition that they want. Yeah, it's a pretty horrifying situation. Yeah. **Inmn ** 51:28 And, like, what happens to...You know, normally when you go to the hospital there's a bill, but if you die, like who has to pay for the care that you received? **Roxanne ** 51:44 Yeah, your family will get that debt as far as I understand. They're a next of kin kind of situation. **Inmn ** 52:00 So, when I think about my own wishes around my remains, you know, one of those fantasies or ideas is that I would love to, you know, not be embalmed. I would love to have my body rot in the ground. Is that possible? **Wōen ** 52:16 Absolutely. To start, the only federal law around death is that you don't have to be embalmed. It's a strange, actually good law as kind of a response to an exploding funeral industry I think around--I don't exactly remember--decades ago. And so a lot of advocates pushed for that to happen. Yeah, so you definitely don't have to be embalmed even if you go to a funeral home. And if they say like, "This is the only way," they're lying. But luckily that's happening less and less because natural burial, or what they call green burial, is getting a lot more popular. And it's, I think in all states now in this country you can find a place at least within like 100 miles. But, I would advocate that if you have access to land in any way, you should do a home burial, even if that means you have to go through some bureaucracy and like create an official cemetery. You should do that because you've now created a burial ground that others can be buried at in the type of way that you want, to honor rot, to honor the ecosystem. Yeah, so definitely what you want is very possible. **Inmn ** 54:15 Cool. Um, yeah, can--I'm sure it's complicated state by state--but like, can you if you own land, or you know someone that owns land, they can just designate part of it as a cemetery and then people can get buried there? Is that like? What is that process like? **Wōen ** 54:39 It really is county by county. Yeah, county by county. Yeah, it's really...I would say where we, where I am in the southeast, as a general statement, in any rural area it is widely practiced still and it's very easy to do home burial. And as another general statement, you just...you can't do this within city limits. And I think that, for good reason, because, you know, they are hubs of capitalism with land turning over and...Like, from where we're sitting even, you know, half a mile down the road, they're desecrating a Black cemetery that they just unearthed that had been paved over at least twice. So it's...I think, like, yeah. So, being able to be outside of the city limits is the best option and most accessible. I know some states are more difficult. And there's more...like there's more red tape. I would say to research where you live. Yeah. And really think about doing this for your community. **Roxanne ** 55:59 What a gift. We live in a time where land and space is becoming--I mean, has been, is becoming--such an intense battlefield for resources. It's just like a really, really intense thing to have is land and space. So being able to provide that for people for free, even just to put their body in is such an incredible resource. **Wōen ** 56:34 Yeah, I know there's...I know there's a lot of kind of...I've heard of some wild ways to have your remains dealt with that...Maybe just to add a little bit of fun levity to the situation. But uh, I've heard you can get turned into diamonds now? **Roxanne ** 56:58 Yeah. **Inmn ** 57:00 Cool. **Wōen ** 57:00 You can get turned into a bowling ball. **Inmn ** 57:03 You can get turned into a bowling ball? I feel like this is a plot to a movie from the 90s. **Wōen ** 57:10 Yeah, I mean, it's...Yeah, you can do a lot with cremated remains. Pretty cool. **Roxanne ** 57:18 Mushroom soup. **Wōen ** 57:19 Uh-huh **Roxanne ** 57:20 I'm really into the soup, personally. **Inmn ** 57:22 The mushroom soup? **Roxanne ** 57:24 Yeah. **Inmn ** 57:25 What is the mushroom soup? **Wōen ** 57:27 What the mushrooms do. I would say it is a little...there needs to be more research on this mushroom soup. But, fungus is a late stage decomposer and this mushroom soup is something you're supposed to be buried in. That's what they're proposing. But often initial decomposition is way too hot and will eat up fungus. And so, it's a little bit not completely thought out. Yeah, so I wouldn't advocate for the mushroom soup, but I would advocate for, you know, creating an aerobic environment to be buried in so you rot really well. And you don't have to worry, the fungus will be there. They will be there to eat up your bones and all your desiccated tissue. Yeah. **Roxanne ** 58:30 I'm picturing like ground lasagna, you know, where there's like dirt, and worms, and things, and then like a layer of mycelial...input. **Wōen ** 58:47 Yeah, that makes the world go round. **Inmn ** 58:51 Yeah. And you can, like on a similar vein, I've heard in Oregon you can get composted? **Wōen ** 59:03 Yeah, I think now it's legal in eight states. It started in Seattle. They call it human composting or natural organic reduction is another term they use. But basically, they're accelerating the decomposition of your soft tissues. I think it's a really awesome thing, especially for folks who don't have access to land because you become soil really fast. And I think a lot of them partner with forest areas where they'll spread your soil. Yeah, I think it's awesome. And I really hope that they make it accessible, you know, like the rest of the Green Death movement. It remains to be seen. But, I hope that that happens. **Inmn ** 1:00:14 Thanks so much for listening. This turned into a much longer episode than we thought it would, which is great that there's just so much to talk about around this topic. So, that's the end of part one. If you enjoyed the show, please go talk to your community about death and tell us about it. And, think about filing an Advanced Medical Directive and power of attorney. We will be back next week with the second half of this episode where me and Roxy will talk a lot more about what it means to be a death doula. I know these topics can be hard and scary, but I think talking about them helps us to not worry about them as much and offers a lot of hope to our communal resilience. If you enjoyed the show, please go tell people about it. You can support this podcast by telling people about it. You can support it by talking about it on social media, rating, and reviewing, or doing whatever the nameless algorithm calls for, as much as I don't want that to be something that's true. You can also support us in a financial way by following us on Patreon at patreon.com/strangersinatangledwilderness. Our Patreon helps pay for things like transcriptions or our lovely audio editor, Bursts, as well as going to support our publisher, Strangers in a Tangled Wilderness. We put out a few more podcasts including my other podcast Strangers in a Tangled Wilderness, a monthly podcast of anarchist literature, and the Anarcho Geek Power Hour, which is the podcast for people who love movies and hate cops. And we would like to shout out some of our patrons in particular. Thank you Carson, Lord Harken, Trixter, Princess Miranda, BenBen, anonymous, Funder, Jans, Oxalis. Janice & O'dell, Paige, Aly, paparouna, Milica, Boise Mutual Aid, theo, Hunter, Shawn, SJ, Paige, Mikki, Nicole, David, Dana, Chelsea, Cat J., Staro, Jenipher, Eleanor, Kirk, Sam, Chris, Michaiah, and as always, Hoss the Dog. Thanks so much. We seriously couldn't do it without you. I hope that everyone is doing as well as they can with everything that's happening and we will see you next week for the second part of this episode. Find out more at https://live-like-the-world-is-dying.pinecast.co

Full Episode HERE Your 14-Day Jump-Start For Nursing School Success Begins Now!!! Come along for a 14-day series that will push you ahead of the curve, helping you break through the most difficult nursing content with a FREE 10-minute video each day. You can access these lesson videos completely free of charge! Simply set up a password, and you're good to go. Today we are talking about Advanced Directives, and in this lesson, I cut the fluff and give you what you need to know.   I hope this Advanced Directives lesson helps you as you prepare for your nursing semester ahead . . . If you are not in fundamentals, yet, save this email for later! Full Episode HERE

Full Episode HERE Your 14-Day Jump-Start For Nursing School Success Begins Now!!! Come along for a 14-day series that will push you ahead of the curve, helping you break through the most difficult nursing content with a FREE 10-minute video each day. You can access these lesson videos completely free of charge! Simply set up a password, and you're good to go. Today we are talking about Advanced Directives, and in this lesson, I cut the fluff and give you what you need to know.   I hope this Advanced Directives lesson helps you as you prepare for your nursing semester ahead . . . If you are not in fundamentals, yet, save this email for later! Full Episode HERE

Full Episode HERE Your 14-Day Jump-Start For Nursing School Success Begins Now!!! Come along for a 14-day series that will push you ahead of the curve, helping you break through the most difficult nursing content with a FREE 10-minute video each day. You can access these lesson videos completely free of charge! Simply set up a password, and you're good to go. Today we are talking about Advanced Directives, and in this lesson, I cut the fluff and give you what you need to know.   I hope this Advanced Directives lesson helps you as you prepare for your nursing semester ahead . . . If you are not in fundamentals, yet, save this email for later! Full Episode HERE

Full Episode HERE Your 14-Day Jump-Start For Nursing School Success Begins Now!!! Come along for a 14-day series that will push you ahead of the curve, helping you break through the most difficult nursing content with a FREE 10-minute video each day. You can access these lesson videos completely free of charge! Simply set up a password, and you're good to go. Today we are talking about Advanced Directives, and in this lesson, I cut the fluff and give you what you need to know.   I hope this Advanced Directives lesson helps you as you prepare for your nursing semester ahead . . . If you are not in fundamentals, yet, save this email for later! Full Episode HERE

Full Episode HERE Your 14-Day Jump-Start For Nursing School Success Begins Now!!! Come along for a 14-day series that will push you ahead of the curve, helping you break through the most difficult nursing content with a FREE 10-minute video each day. You can access these lesson videos completely free of charge! Simply set up a password, and you're good to go. Today we are talking about Advanced Directives, and in this lesson, I cut the fluff and give you what you need to know.   I hope this Advanced Directives lesson helps you as you prepare for your nursing semester ahead . . . If you are not in fundamentals, yet, save this email for later! Full Episode HERE

Full Episode HERE Your 14-Day Jump-Start For Nursing School Success Begins Now!!! Come along for a 14-day series that will push you ahead of the curve, helping you break through the most difficult nursing content with a FREE 10-minute video each day. You can access these lesson videos completely free of charge! Simply set up a password, and you're good to go. Today we are talking about Advanced Directives, and in this lesson, I cut the fluff and give you what you need to know.   I hope this Advanced Directives lesson helps you as you prepare for your nursing semester ahead . . . If you are not in fundamentals, yet, save this email for later! Full Episode HERE

Full Episode HERE Your 14-Day Jump-Start For Nursing School Success Begins Now!!! Come along for a 14-day series that will push you ahead of the curve, helping you break through the most difficult nursing content with a FREE 10-minute video each day. You can access these lesson videos completely free of charge! Simply set up a password, and you're good to go. Today we are talking about Advanced Directives, and in this lesson, I cut the fluff and give you what you need to know.   I hope this Advanced Directives lesson helps you as you prepare for your nursing semester ahead . . . If you are not in fundamentals, yet, save this email for later! Full Episode HERE

Carol Bertsch joins hosts Ron Aaron and Carol Zernial to talk about the importance of advanced directives for healthcare on this edition of Caregiver SOS.

As odd as it sounds, death is a part of life. In this episode, our hosts chat with a palliative care physician to learn about the difference between palliative care and end-of-life care. You'll get tips on how to have important conversations with your loved ones about the type of care you or they may want at all stages of life. Guest: Julia L. Vermylen, MD Disclaimer: This podcast does not substitute for medical advice from a clinician.https://www.nm.org/healthbeat/podcast/get-better

This SHINE podcast episode is on how by facing and preparing for death, we are able to live more meaningful and purposeful lives. We all are born and we all will die. In this interview, we speak about how to talk about death as a way to foster deeper connection, healing, and growth at work, in our communities, and at home. We address the importance of bringing awareness and meditation practices to grieve effectively. Lastly, we talk about how bringing generations together over dinner can support us to solve some of the larger problems at work and in the world. This inspiring episode will support you to live a more meaningful life with less regrets. Episode Links: Compassion & Choices Death over Dinner What happens when death is what is for dinner? Ted Talk Reef Grief Article & coping resources Is this how you feel? Website formed to name and witness grief in community Book of Regrets SHINE Links: Thank you for listening. Want to build a high trust, innovative, and inclusive culture at work? Sign up for our newsletter and get the free handout and be alerted to more inspiring Shine episodes Building Trust Free Gift Carley Links: LinkedIn Consultation Call with Carley Book Carley for Speaking Leading from Wholeness Learning & Development Carley's Book Executive Coaching with Carley Well Being Resources: Inner Game Meditations Inner Game Leadership Assessment Social: LinkedIn IG Website Shine Podcast Page Imperfect Shownotes Hi, welcome to the shine podcast. My name is Carley Hauck. I'm your host, this is the fifth season of the shine podcast. I started the shine podcast as a way of doing research for my book on conscious leadership in business. And you will find interviews with scientists, researchers and business leaders on the intersection of conscious inclusive leadership, the recipe for high performing teams and awareness practices. My book debuted in 2021 Shine ignite your inner game of conscious leadership and was voted one of the best books to read in 2022. By mindful magazine, I facilitate two episodes a month of the shine podcast. And before I tell you about the topic for today, please go over to Apple podcasts or your favorite podcast carrier and hit the subscribe button so you don't miss any future episodes. The focus of this season is on the essentials for wellbeing. And that encompasses the intersection of our personal well being the collective well being of our workplace, and how that fosters and nurtures the planet's well being they are all connected. I focus on well being this season, because I really want to crack the code and inspire folks to prioritize their individual well being and therefore that will transcend into the collective and the planet's well being. And I have developed a inner game leadership assessment that I gave out to 100 different leaders last year. And the leadership assessment is based on the framework of the inner game, which is what we're cultivating on the inside to be conscious leaders. And it shows up on the outside when we cultivated the certain qualities. And two of the nine leadership competencies that were lowest from the sample of 100 leaders were psychological and physical well being. Therefore, that is why we are focusing on well being and if you're curious about where your strengths and gaps are around the qualities to become a conscious leader, you can take the assessment and find out your score for free. I recently opened to the assessment tool to the public, and the link will be in the show notes. Now onto our episode. Hello shine podcast listeners. I am here with my new friend Michael Michael HEB, who is the founder of death over dinner, drugs over dinner, and generations over dinner. He currently serves as a board advisor at the Friedman School of Nutrition Science and Policy at Tufts, and is the primary editor of COVID paper. His second book, let's talk about death was published by Hashem in the US, UK and Australia in October of 2018. and Russia, China, Taiwan, Indonesian, Poland and Romania in the fall of 2019, and will soon be published in Finland. Wow. That's incredible. Michael, so happy to have you here. Oh, my goodness, this conversation is going to be amazing. Can't wait. Thanks for being here. Of course, credit. Thanks for having me. So to start off in the deep end, which I know you and I swimmin. Often, I'd love if you could share some of your childhood story of losing your father to dementia, and how that experience inspired a movement to support millions in gathering and holding space as we prepare for death. Yeah, well, when I was in second grade, I didn't know that it would inspire valiance. For one, I was very much you know, just a regular seven year old, seven year old, eight year old and my father was quite a bit older than most fathers. He was born in 1904 in the Yukon Gold Rush in a minor shed and Dawson during the the like epicenter of the Yukon Gold Rush. And so he was 72 years old when I was born, which is becoming less and less unique. I think we just found out Al Pacino is going to have another child, but at at something, but back then this was quite a surprising thing. And I think it's a kind of an amazing thing in a challenging thing to be sold and to have a child because you don't know how long you're going to be around for them. But I was a bit of a surprise. And in second grade, my father was diagnosed with Alzheimer's, full blown Alzheimer's, it wasn't early onset, his symptoms were severe at that point, and then was put into a, a nursing home. And those were really rough years, my mother was not resourced to know how to manage our lives. Very few would be, and we lived in a great deal of chaos. And he died when I was 13. On on Halloween, actually. And our family didn't know how to talk about his illness, didn't know how to talk about his inevitable death, didn't know how to talk about our grief. And so we started really avoiding each other, which in many way was was the healthiest thing we could do. Because when you have a secret or a traumatic centerpiece to your family relationship, every time you're around those family members, there's cortisol and all kinds of things flooding your system. And so we really grew apart pretty quickly. And it had a lot of impact on the family structure where you know, much later and we'll talk about death over dinner, it served as the inspiration for inspiring people to talk about death, mortality, life limiting illness, dementia, because I didn't want anybody else to have to go through what I experienced the type of alienation, isolation, depression, confusion, anger, and the whole rainbow of emotion that I had to go through, basically alone until many mentors started to show up in my life. But the the death itself on Halloween was, was a seismic event in my life, and not for the reasons you might think. The grief wasn't overwhelming immediately, there was a kind of void that I felt when I woke up the morning and Halloween, and I knew that he died even though there was no one telling me so there's just a known sense, I'd actually had the previous night woken up at 3:43am, the exact moment that his heart stopped without knowing why. And then when I woke up again, later on that day, I was very clear, like, my dad's died, and I ended up going to school, because I wasn't going to just hang out with my mom and my brother. That didn't seem like a good place to go, or to be. And so I went to school on Halloween and Halloween when you're 13 is a big deal. And I ended up going out with friends that night, I didn't tell a single person that day that my father had died. And looking back on it, I think that was a pretty smart strategy. The realization that I had either consciously or just knew in my bones, at that time was my friend group didn't have the ability to deal with the weight of that kind of information. Kids are much more emotionally intelligent these days than they were 30 some years ago. And so I went out with my friends on Halloween night and did the type of things that 13 year olds do. I think we TPT some houses and eggs, some cars and drink some and essentially were assholes. And this thing happened to me because I was holding this whole new reality that my my dad had died, which no one I knew could relate to. And looking around my friends and what we were involved in the way we related to each other, and really just the world. I had this sense of being separate from it and watching it almost film nicly seeing these things from a from a removed space and questioning. If we act like this, why do we relate to each other? Why is there conversation about meaning? Shit, I hope I can swear on your ad snapped to, I can totally be yourself. Yeah,apparently it's a sign of intelligence, I just read a recent report. But nonetheless, I felt separate from my social group. And in in that separation, I started to ask really big questions. And that is really where my spirituality took shape was in those questions, and their questions about what are we doing here? Is there something more than this? Is there a right way to live? Have people known about living connected to something larger than the cell in the past, and took a great deal of interest in poetry and Eastern spirituality and mysticism? Gnosticism a long list of question askers. And that really set me on a completely different course than I would have been happily skipping down. So really, really a big change for not not exactly the reasons you would expect, when you use the term seismic, you know, change? And I would say yes, for sure. And, you know, before this conversation, I did a lot of research and trying to get to know you, and different interviews and things that you have recorded. And I learned about your early meditation practice, and part of how that came to be. And I was touched, because we both started meditating, and really having these deeper questions and interest around the same time, even though I, I imagine we're probably a similar age. And I also grew up in a family where, and still have a family where I'm keenly sensitive to emotions of myself and others, and the planet, and my, you know, nuclear family is not. And in some ways, I felt like an alien. And really kind of stuffed those for a long time, but had to find other ways and other tools to really understand myself and similar to you, like, understand, why am I here? And you know, what is the reason that I am being called to be here at this time. And, you know, when we, when we think about meditation and Buddhism, Siddhartha had a very similar journey, right? He was he was living in this, you know, Castle, not no suffering, really, except that is that his mother passed at an early age. But then he went outside of the palace walls one day and saw the four heavenly messengers, you probably familiar of this, of this table, or fable, rather, one was a sick person, an old man, a corpse, and aesthetic. And so he went on, you know, the aesthetic path to try to understand why these things happen. But we all know that we're gonna die, like every single one of us is going to die. And we don't know when that is going to happen. And so I wanted to bring you on because of a lot of his own inquiry around death for myself, but also, how do we use death, knowing it's coming, knowing that in some ways, humanity is facing very grave ecological death, which we'll go into a little bit later, to live the most meaningful life that we can right now? Yeah, well, I mean, in many ways, we can unlock what our life's meaning is, without that kind of rupture, without facing our mortality. And for most people, it happens in the middle of their life. This is you know, what Richard Rohr calls the second half of life and talks about and falling upward. And that that is just kind of naturally an age where people that are meaningful to us start dying. Right, some of us are, you know, gifted or cursed with a meaningful death. early in life, if you don't embrace it, or let it embrace you or if you repress it, or run away from it, then it can be a curse. But if you do the hard work of facing, whether that's when you're 13, or 30, or 40, or 50, or 60, or 70. The gifts that you get are really the answers to why I'm here. It's it's in many ways, the strongest medicine there is and there's a lot of talk these days and a lot of experience around psychedelic medicine, for instance, many of your users or, or listeners are experienced or curious. almost everybody's read Michael Pollan's book, how to change your mind, it seems. And we talk about the strength of that medicine, right, because it allows us to connect to something larger than ourselves connect to our, our history, our traumas, some of these big questions we find in a lot of psychedelic plant medicines, experiences that are held in the right container. Death, it's arguably more powerful, a medicine, and it's sitting right here. Yeah, right beside us, whether we acknowledge it or not. And, and it's a little bit easier to integrate, quite frankly, and then a psychedelic experience. And, you know, a lot of those medicines, actually kind of the core thinking around those medicines is they give us the ability to die before we die, so that we don't have to die when we die. And this is the this was the reason that people went to Eleusis, the mysteries in in, in Greece for 2000 years, 30,000 people a year, would go to a Lusas, to drink BurgerTime beer, to have an experience where a part of themselves would die. So that they realized that life, what was important about life, what the meaning was, what they were doing there. And you know that that experience is available to all of us by turning and facing or grief or any number of things. I agree. And I you know, just to circle back to meditation. Gosh, there's so many, there's so many ways that we could go because I love to have the plant medicine discussion with you as well. And I, I believe you're very right. I think a lot of people in some ways are actually just using the medicine to escape again. And they're not actually integrating. I mean, you're finding this altered state of consciousness, which, frankly, you can find meditating. And I've done both. And there's not a lot of difference for me personally. And only the medicine just brings me to that point faster. But I've done years and years and years of silent meditation. And one of the things that I'm so grateful about meditation is that Vipassana, which is coming from the Tera Vaada. And Buddhist tradition, actually learned this several years ago, on a silent retreat at Spirit Rock meditation center, it means to grieve effectively, because every moment is passing this moment right now, between you and I will never happen again, quite like this, ever. And so I'm present to it. And there's a loss and that, here it goes. Yeah, letting it go. Yeah, sometimes we have to be well, I think we do have to build be able to face the big D, yes, the two really come to terms with the small D's that we face all of the time, and not grasp on to that which is constantly changing, right? Because that's what people's primarily, their primary complaints are really around the small days, you know, anxiety, depression, all of these things have that we suffer from on a regular basis have so much to do with dealing with the fact that things are constantly changing. Right? Right. Yeah. Yeah. And how do we how do we practice getting, you know, little and, and to be in flow with a world that is constantly changing? Right? And so that's why I told tell people and teach people that, you know, death is this really powerful medicine because one, you, you do want to drink from that cup, you, you will be facing the big D at some point. And you want to be present to that. And you want to be able to learn from the experience as the aperture of your life gets smaller and smaller. There's a lot of great richness in that I've seen people complete a whole hero's journey in their last hour on this planet and change things generationally, and do healing for people who, you know, their future ancestors, they'll never meet on death's door. Right? But not if we're grasping. Not if we haven't surrendered, not if we're not present to it. And in the present moment, same thing. We're not going to be able to have an access to the beauty of the moment, or whatever it is. It's not just beauty, the is of the moment if grasping, flailing, reacting struggling in fight or flight or freeze, unless we have some sort of practice round. I mean, some of my good friends started the flow Institute's flow Institute, Steven Kotler, and Jamie Weil. And there's a lot of talk about flow these days and to be in flow. And I give those guys a hard time. It's like you're teaching people all of these great techniques, but the most important technique you could be teaching it was to deal with death and go, yeah, and they've incorporated some of that. And we actually hosted the first flow Institute, gathering together years before their other best seller. So there's just a lot there. And it's scary for people. This isn't, I'm not saying this with the idea that you shouldn't have apprehension or that it's easy. But there have been a lot of people who looked at our impermanence, looked at death, looked at grief, and have lit those canyons, and lit those dark forests for us. So you're, you're not alone. And you will get immediate vitality, from the work that people do around this. And I know you work with leaders and, you know, one of one of the kind of most ironic slash funniest uses of death over dinner, which is a initiative I started to get people to talk about end of life and, you know, millions of people have taken part in this. I was gonna ask you about that. Yeah. If we'll come back to continue. Yeah, I'll give. I'll let you lead me into some framing but Deloitte, Europe, one of the leading firms, when it comes to giving advice and creating strategy for the biggest brands in the world, most people know Deloitte. Yes, started using Deloitte, Europe started using depth over dinner at the beginning of their, their corporate retreats for their big clients. And yeah, and found and people were able to have conversations about what do they want to be remembered for? What do they want to have happen to their body? You know, song would be one at their funeral. If they had 30 days left to live, what would they do with it? How would they feel that that unlocks so much connection between the people that were there and humanity, way below the watermark of their strategy, or with you know, their brand, and it also unlocked a tremendous amount of creativity? Right? People feel free to try out new ideas and to play with each other's ideas. So, you know, there's there's a lot, there's a lot there in this space that has big No Trespassing signs all over it for us. Thank you. Well, there's a couple of questions that I have that are bubbling. I mean, first, I'd love to hear well, and even before I, I asked you a question, just my responses, you know, in my experience, working with lots of different, you know, senior people, leaders and stakeholders and various companies, business is only as good as the relationships that people are forming. If there isn't psychological safety, trust, the ability to believe that this person has my back, and we are connected and we are connected towards something of greater purpose, people will not stay, they will not perform, they will not feel they belong, and they will not bring their best to work or that workplace. That has been my experience. And so, I think what we are craving most, and especially since the pandemic is connection, is meaning is purpose, and how do we build that together and then align, you know, in powerful actions together. And I just think that is that is what is happening in the workplace. There is a death of the old workplace that was profit above everything else, thank goodness, but it's slow. It's slow. There's there's still a certain you know, group of leaders that are holding on to that. Lynne twist has been a huge mentor to me and wrote the foreword of my book and I remember when I first heard her speak years ago, she said we are hospice sing out. You know, these Oh, have systems and structures that will not support the new world. Because we have to embrace that, or we don't have a path forward. And so I, I'm excited for the death let it die. But let's hospice it out, right? Because then we can let go more effectively. Yeah, well, I mean, the pandemic, arguably, threw a wrench in some of that, at least from the human connection side. It gave us something that we have in common to connect around, it made grief public, that made mental health public, it made that those topics went from being taboo, which we can talk about the word taboo if we want, because it's a completely misunderstood word. But from things that were not appropriate conversations, to being very appropriate, very common conversation, especially in the millennial communities, some of us that are a little bit older, catching up with millennials and that ability to talk about things openly. But it also just, it did separate us. And it's hard to create deep connections in the workplace, when this is how we're connecting when it's just over zoom, or maybe not even zoom, it's just over email. I hope Len is right below her very much. If you're listening, Man, I miss you. Let's talk soon. And I do I do really have hope that that is the direction that we're going. Right now, this seems like we're going a lot of different directions. So where it's hard to know,it's a little chaotic, for sure. Well, I want to hear more about the process of death over dinner, so you can share with our listeners of how they can engage in that, I also wanted to speak to you about how you have understood the difference between for example, sadness, and grief. Because it's a felt experience. And, you know, there's, there's a lot of numbing, there's a lot of avoiding that. And I just think that in order to really be more comfortable in talking about our own death, we have to be willing to feel the grief. So So start with that, the movement of death over dinner, the process, I'm gonna leave links in the show notes. And I have gone through the process a couple times, a couple dinners, and also have a guess, some insights that are not around that, but just even just some of the my own practices around death that I might insert in in our conversation if we have time. I love it. Well, death over dinner came out of the well, at this point. It's over 20 years of convening people to talk about difficult topics at the dinner table. I realized pretty early on in my career as an architect my backgrounds actually in architecture, that I didn't need to build any new structures, I was building places for people to gather and connect. As an architect. That was the focus of my young career. And then I realized that the dinner table does that, with me needing to file a building permit or raise millions of dollars for said structure. We just forgotten how to use the dinner table. And needed to remember, we've remembered how, to some extent to garden and farm and put great food on the table thanks to Alice Waters in the slow food movement, all this incredible work that's been done on the front side. But very little has been done around what happens when they actually sit down with that beautiful food or have that famous chef cook for us. And so we don't have a virtuous cycle. Back to the table. We have it as a kind of fetishized entertainment, almost like a Martha Stewart shot something not a oh, I want to be there having that experience. How do I get back there that richness comes from people being vulnerable, sharing stories around their lives. And now we just talked about succession when we get to a dinner table or whatever people are watching on TV. Probably 75% of the dinner conversation is happening over tables and or we're not paying attention to the Food, you know, or being even mindful of our consumption. I started off in the corporate space, engaging people in meditation through mindful eating of chocolate. I did not do the raisin that was not going to get their attention. But I've I've always really loved just bringing people's attention. Yes to, to food to connection to our connection to food, and therefore the greater the greater world. Yeah, which is great work. But then we also have to connect with the people at the table. And that was the kind of soft architecture that I got really interested in, what is the history of it? What is the history of the Athenian symposium that brought together you know, Plato and Aristotle was the history of the Jewish Seder. What's the history of the Bloomsbury group? Gertrude Stein's tables, so the Black Panthers Sunday brunches, like, what what has been this role how people use this space, the dinner table, because we're drawn to it naturally. It's like the watering hole on the savanna, all different types. For food, we, we come and we get saved, save it, and then we go back to her our lives. If we were eating together, a lot of people don't eat together. But so I started doing dinners with incredible folks and Presidents and Nobel Prize winners and people that are living on the streets and people that are struggling with mental illness, and you name it, dinner after dinner after dinner in every country, or every continent, and so many places, so many just wild settings. It's hard to even think about, and I've had to forget many of them, because there's been too many, and having hard conversations like how do we end genocide? How do we enhance closeness? How do we end the gender gap? Then I realized that I wasn't going to be able to reach the number of people that I wanted to reach. And I also didn't want to just be working with leaders. I don't believe in a trickle down model. I believe in a grassroots model, I really even think change actually happens from the ground up. And so wanted to create a social ritual that people could enact, all over the world could scale and was free very much like the Jewish Seder, actually, the ER a Shabbat dinner, but with a little bit more of a program, a theme. And so death over dinner was our answer to that. I was working with some great designers and graduate students, I was teaching at the University of Washington, in the Graduate School of Communications and decided to teach a course entirely based around building a platform called death over dinner. And we did and now it's become this global phenomenon. And what it is, is, it's an invitation. First and foremost, we're talking about facing mortality, or death, grief and people Oh, that's great. And you say that there's ways into this, but how well, here's one. Like, we're gonna give people an invitation that isn't a thick book, it is a dinner party, and you liked dinner parties. And so here's the invitation, come to dinner and talk about death. And it can be because you're grieving, because you have a loved one who has a terminal diagnosis, it could be because you have early onset Alzheimer's, you don't know how to talk to your family about it, but it's gonna be more and more of us. And so we built this beautiful website and its limitation and then created scripts for people. So your intention, why you want to have the dinner, or the conversation, you select on the website, and then it auto generates the scripts and allows you to pick some homework based upon that intention. So very different scripts for somebody who's grieving versus somebody who's interested for spiritual or religious reasons in a conversation. And then people sit down, and they have this experience where they don't have to think about what are the questions, it's all laid out. And there's a ritual in the beginning and a ritual in the end, and it works. Good, give people some good food and some structure and have someone you know, kind of hold the space for it, lead it, you know, who is whoever is inviting the conversation? Yeah, it's, it's beautiful. And then I've only done three, you know, personally, and I, I actually invited my parents, maybe like two months ago, and they they turned me down. They said, No, we don't want to talk about this, because we have a lot of friends that are dying right now. And it was it was too much, but I am not giving up. Because I I just think it's so important to talk about. Yeah, I'll just leave it at Yeah. Well, I mean, let's talk about that. Because if If you are lining up and saying like, Oh, I want to do I want to have that conversation, if someone's listening to this podcast and be like, I'm interested in that, or if there's any like, no, no, no, you know, putting their fingers in their ears. We can talk to both of those people right now. So if you are excited about it, and you're saying, I want to have this conversation with my parents, my spouse, my best friends, my co workers, my kids, you are gonna get nose? Yep. You if you're excited about it, you are more excited about it than many of the people in your life, I promise you. And so here's the thing. The people in your life do want to talk about it. Yeah. But inviting them is tricky. can be tricky. It's not tricky. Some people are just gonna be like, hell yes. And I'm gonna bring all my friends too. And some people will be like, Hell, no, I'm never gonna have this conversation. But here's the thing. If we acted like, most people act, or at the end of life conversation, the death conversation, if we acted that way, like we do around love and work, we would never find love, and we would never have a job. So your parents said, No. But you know, how did you ask them? And you tried one way. And there are many different ways. And I think of it more of as a courtship. Right? Well, and and just just to share a little more, I sent that to them over email, as an initial conversation. I actually, at that time, was living in Costa Rica. And we hadn't had a deeper discussion, I had no idea that my father had a law school friend that was like literally going to be dying a week from that moment. So it was really bad timing on my end. And I went through a very deep process at the end of last year, where I spent five days in a very powerful workshop, really facing my death every single day. So it started on a Monday, anyone Friday was dying, like it was happening. And over the course of five days, I was being told you have four days to live, you have three days to live, you have two days to live, you have one day to live, you have 30 seconds to live, what are you going to do and I was buried, literally buried, I did write my eulogy. And I have been wearing a bracelet around my wrist, it's just a black thread. That reminds me, I'm gonna die. And it's been so powerful and so potent. And so you know, some of that experience I've been sharing with my parents. That's the courting I suppose. And I spent my birthday with them intentionally this year. But I haven't done in many, many years. And as part of my birthday dinner, I said, you don't know how I want to die. And I don't know how you want to die. And we have not talked about Advanced Directives. And I really want to know, so that I can honor your wishes. And my parents are probably going to hate that. I'm going to say this out loud. But they said we haven't even talked about it. We don't know. So at least I have started that inquiry. And I said, Well, I would like to be cremated. And this is where and I should probably put this in writing. Because I don't know when that is going to happen. And I want you to know. Yeah. So that's, that's, that's part of I think, what I have been dealing with it all. I'll just share one other piece of that. I want to bring it back to you, Michael. But I wasn't planning on sharing this. But it's so interesting. Yesterday, I was flying back to California from Florida from visiting my my family, my parents, and we were approaching Albuquerque. And they were crazy winds like the plane is rattling and it was just like it was it was crazy. And I'm like, Oh, my gosh, I have not reviewed the emergency protocol. Okay, the 510. Net didn't actually go through it at the beginning. Sometimes they do sometimes they don't. And I thought okay, what, what if you were to die right now? You know what that feels like? You have gone through the experience. And I just allowed myself to feel it. I was actually buried in the sand. I was I was in the sand. They left me there for an hour. And when they came to get me during this five days, I didn't want to come out Michael. I felt so at peace. I felt so held by the Earth just the weight of her on me. And so many people had very different experiences. They couldn't wait to get out. It scared the hell out of them. But I reminded myself of that embodied acts experience if if this were to happen, this is what you know, in your body that death is and it was, it was wonderful. I didn't have I didn't have fear and I was able to transport myself back in that place on the plane yesterday as it's rattling and shaking and Okay. Okay. And well, let's imagine your parents, yeah, that would have had very different experiences being buried for one, they wouldn't have gone to Costa Rica to die off and five days. But they have maybe like an anxious attachment relationship to it. Or an avoidant perhaps. And, you know, there are these, you know, we can take, we can use attachment styles for debt too. And going straight up to somebody who is so avoidant. And, you know, putting your finger right on the nose of it is going to be, you know, can can be a thing that has them seize up, right, of course, of course, you know, and this isn't just to you this is to people are listening, because you're not, you're no, I love, you're using this as a teachable moment. And frankly, I have not shared what I just shared with you, I think with only three people. But now here we go. Like, yes, it's been buried. But yes, there there is a there is avoidance, there is anxiety. And it's unknown, of course. Yeah. But there's a way in. So, you know, similarly with courtship, and with a job that you really want, you get creative. And you think about that person. Right? What what are they interested in? Does your mom love Tuesdays with maurey? Perhaps? No, didn't love the movie? Does you know, do they watch dramas that haven't includes our true crime? Or, you know, like, there's, there are ways in and a legacy legacy might be away? And what do you want to be remembered for? Let's get way out, you know, and what stories from your life, we want to make sure that your grandchildren know that that is a death conversation. There's a lot of things that yes, I agree, don't present as much as like, your advanced care directives, and what happens to your body when you die. Right there, there are things that are a little bit more adjacent, where people can open up and before you know it, you're gonna get all of their wishes. It's an unfurling. Because they've been, you know, we're in a society that denies it. And, and is obsessed with it. So we have an unnatural, we have this very unhealthy relationship to it, we're obsessed with that. Death is central to all the top TV shows, books, clickbait it's everywhere. But but our own is, is a real challenge for some people. And the other thing is we can experience it. Right? So it's one of those human experiences that we'll never have, why? Until we have it. And so, it's not something that we can imagine ourselves in. And we also think we're gonna have that other bias in our brain that has it that we're an exception to the rule. We all think we're an exception to the rule. Not gonna happen to me. Yeah. You know, that's just baked in. And so there's a lot but I love that you're trying, and I'm confident that you're gonna find I am pretty persistent. But yes, it's about right timing. And so I appreciate that you used my example as a teachable moment, but I there's so many different places we could go. I'd love to, you know, end on on two questions. One is, how have you maybe found the distinction within yourself but also happen to be in conversation with with folks around the difference between sadness and grief? Well, the thing is, grief is is not one thing. You know, sadness, it has a certain tonality to it. Grief is all of all of the colors all of the sounds of the emotions so you can be a grieving and being laughing. You can be ecstatic and grieving you can be grieving and be horny you can be grieving and be devastatingly depressed. You can be grieving and be inconsolable. You can And all of this is included in grief, grief is is not singular in that way. And, you know, sadness, I'm not an expert on sadness. I mean, then I'm Sam a little bit more expert on grief. And one of the things that I know to be true about grief is one, it's not linear. There, there are no stages. So many people think that Elisabeth Kubler Ross determined the five stages of grief, what Elisabeth Kubler Ross did was create the five stages that happen when we come to terms with our own death. That's what that is. That's what the stages of grief, as we call them, were originally written as she suggested that it might work for grief. And then she retracted it. Some people have taken her suggestion and made careers on it. And the culture has had a bonanza around this idea of grief, having five stages, it doesn't, it's for ever, grief doesn't go away doesn't mean that it's always awful. But the fact that the person is gone, and that whole, that shape of that person will always be in your heart. But the the way to heal that, if that's even the right word, or the way to orient around that is not to try to get back to normal. Or to forget about it or reintegrate into society. It's to honor them. It's called continuing bonds theory. And it's actually the healthy way of grieving. And a lot of countries do this very well, Mexico, India, Japan, where they elevate their relationship to the loved one as opposed to repress it. Right? This, this is going to be with you forever. Turn the beautiful part on and some of the sadness, sadness can be beautiful, poignant, leads to some amazing things inspires us to get in motion sometimes, but elevate that person in your life, build an altar, have some remembrance, turn their body, you know, their cremated remains into things like parting stone or a diamond or have some way where they live in your everyday life is the is the way forward with grief, even though we talk about it in such unhelpful ways. Thank you. Well, and I and my experience with any feeling, you know, the more that we witnessed it, and we witnessed it in community or even with one other person, and in some ways, we're shining the light on it. And it has that opportunity to heal and transform. And that's I think some of what you're doing with this conversation is we're taking it out of the ground, so to speak. We're giving it life and a chance for people to talk about it and therefore grieve together and heal together. Right. And you know, this idea of the word taboo, we'll just talk briefly because I think you have one last question. But taboo is not doesn't mean forbidden. What it actually it's a comes from a Polynesian term, taboo, Tipu. And what that that was referred to places that were sacred places that you have to like, we know for some reason, we know that a burial ground and you know, an Indian or Native American or indigenous burial ground, that we know, for some reason is taboo. Why do we know that? Because that's actually true. It's a sacred place. That's one of the things that was identified as taboo or taboo is a holy place, a sacred place where we actually have to cleanse ourselves or prepare ourselves or being a different state of mind, to go into that space. And that's a rich and meaningful space. Taboo is actually an invitation. It's an invitation and but it's not the regular Friday, your regular Tuesday, it is, I'm going to do I'm going to prepare myself when people go into a mosque, they cleanse themselves. You know, there is there's something about this, that we've forgotten that, yes, we can talk about the hardest things we can talk about trauma. We can talk about sex, we can talk about, you know, history of abuse, we can talk about anything gender, politics, we you name it, if we prepare ourselves properly, and create the right container. There's nothing that's off limits. It's when we don't take the care to do that, that we run into difficulty I agree. Thank you. So in the topic of death and grief, and this is something that has taken a lot of my heart and mind space and continues to. And I think I'm not alone in this, you know, what's happening with our planet, and the extinction of species, and all of the reports that have been coming in for a long time around what is happening with the warming of our planet, and especially the most recent reports, there is an ecological death that is happening. And I think that it is overwhelming for many people to even really look at and feel, feel the grief around the species that are gone for good, and that will be gone. But also, I don't feel like we're prepared with the skills and the resources to navigate what is coming with the fires, with the migration that is going to be happening across our world of people of beings. And I just feel curious, does ecological death or grief come up at all, in these death over dinner conversations? And how can we inspire people to start talking about it, and prepare, skillfully to talk about it? Because we need to talk about it? Because we can't avoid it? It's here. Yeah, and, you know, I think one of the things that we do is weaponize our own grief around this our own urgency as opposed to create space for people to that's inviting to be able to have their own experience of grief around the natural world. Right? A lot of us have had that experience. And we've been we can't believe that others haven't, you know, has woken up to it. Right? Wake up and notice. Wake up and notice is not how I want to be woken up. That doesn't work. I try I have a 14 year old if I come in and shake her or throw water on her or tell her all of the things that she hasn't done or shouldn't be doing. No, that's not how we want to wake somebody up to this. You know, a good morning, I love you. You know, can I? Can I get your coffee? Would you want toast? Or do you want a croissant? Do you want fruit for breakfast? Right? Like, this morning, I gave her some of those choices. She was so touched, she was like, I would love a coffee. She didn't even drink it. But justit's through love. Of course, you're loving, it's tender. And a gentle is about creating space. If you do want people to start to see the world in some way that resembles your way of seeing. Right? One you don't know if they're gonna have the same experience and come to the same conclusions. But until you invite somebody in to look at it themselves and feel it. You've already told them that they're not allowed unless they have a certain set of experiences generally are a certain kind of fire under them to make change is the only way you can be a ticket holder into this conversation. Right this. So you know, there's an incredible book called The Persuaders that just came out. And now Anons going to destroy his last name that is about the right and the left, and how we need more on ramps into these these movements. And I highly recommend that to anybody. But I would also put a little little plug that in my book, I have also created some practices for how to navigate the deep grief and feelings around this. And also, you know, I started experimenting with this practice many years ago when I was teaching at Stanford and I'd, I'd bring the students out into the grass. And I'd ask them to tell me what they loved most about nature, and what they really got from nature. And from that love. What are we willing to fight for? Right? What just like anything, you know, like our family, our friends, if we love something enough, we care for it. We want to protect it and I think that that is I believe the most palpable way into the conversation and to feel the heartbreak around what's happening and you know, a lot of it we have caused, and then we have a choice of what actions we're going to take because pa I couldn't believe we can we can reverse it right? There's there's 100 ways to reverse this. But it requires a certain level of activation of all of us. Yeah. And then, you know, we did create a dinner model called Earth to dinner, which was in partnership with the Paris accord. And the earth in Paris movement in the UN was one of our partners, and we got 1000s of people to have conversations about climate change. But I'll leave you with one story. Because it's, it hasn't asked Yeah, what what evolved from that? Yes. But feel free to feel free to leave the story as well.Yeah, I mean, that. That was, it was incredibly powerful. And I got to work with Jack Black, which was fun. And one of those famous like internet famous cats, I can't remember his name. But nonetheless, the, the story I'll leave you with around it, because I still think it should happen. And I was in Iceland, and got inspired by the glacial melt in Iceland. And, you know, the fact that we are, we're very action oriented, when it comes to those people that are working on climate change, action is really the currency. And I realized that there's a step before action, which is great that we're missing. And so started working on a project to build a table out of the glacier and got, like, the leading ice sculptor in Iceland, to we went out into tests and took, can we cut a table out of the glacier. And then we have the arc at angles, one of the leading sustainable architects in the world cetera to design the table. So the arc angles, gonna design the table, and then how we were started to form this dinner around it. And Bjork said yes, and Sigur Ros was coming. And the president of Iceland was involved. And all of this was happening. And the idea was, okay, we're going to build this table out of ice, and we're going to have a dinner on it that we're going to film and then leave it for people to come visit it while it melts. But the dinner itself was called the goodbye glacier dinner. And the idea very simply was, you know, let's read this together. Let's talk about a world without ice and how that makes us feel. Let's talk a world of burial without glacier. Let's talk about the sixth extinction, that we're in the middle of let's have these conversations from what are we going to miss? How is that going to feel? Which is something that's not politicized? Alright, that's just like, how's it gonna feel? No, full stop. Not now, I want you to make sure you recycle. And you can't wear those, you know, you can't wear fur, or you can't do this, or you can't eat this, or there's no need for you know, let's just grieve. And so and then unfortunately, the idea was so popular that a friend of mine decided to build a whole festival around this and a thought leadership festival. And it got way too big and fancy. And then the whole thing exploded. But the the reason we were doing it in the first place was the goodbye glacier dinner, and the goodbye glacier table. And so it still hasn't happened. And maybe somebody is listening. Maybe someone will listen and they'll say, let's start. Yeah, I love it. Okay, if you want to do it, I'm up for it. Michael's up for reach out. That was your story. Beautiful. Well, I know you have as I shared at the beginning of introducing you, you have a couple other movements, generations over dinner, and that feels like a wonderful opportunity for people of all different ages to come together towards talking about some of these big conversations that were hospice sing out to create something new. Yeah. So yeah, generations over dinner, I'll just be briefly partnership with Chip Conley, Chip Conley, the founder of modern elder Academy, and I'm sure he's been talked about maybe he's been on this podcast he has and chip has a new book, and he's going to be on it again. So I am very inspired by Chip and his work at modern elder Academy and the emphasis on intergenerational wisdom sharing. Yes, this idea that a modern elder is as as curious as they are wise. And that it is about sharing, as as well as being you know, just that curiosity, that desire to learn. And that's the hallmark of what we need an elders right now. We're also age, we have an age apartheid, if you will. Don't know if we can Bandy around the term apartheid. So I apologize if that's offensive. But we have a divisiveness and separation around age we do not know, people of different ages, generally speaking, we are not age diverse, in our country are really very much around the world is one of those American ideas that has been exported, to really just spend your time around people same age and not live with people of different ages, etc. And so we decided to create another social ritual that is generations over dinner. And that's a challenge to see how many generations you can get at a dinner table. And these dinners are happening all over the world as well, there have been already to seven generation dinners, not of the same family, but the generations like boomers, greatest silent millennia, we've gotten all seven living at tables, or people have I haven't even done it, people got inspired by it. And they're like, we'll do it. And two of those dinners, one in Australia, one in the US have happened. And they're these dinners happening of work, mentioned that there were a lot of enterprise or workplace has the most intergenerational opportunity, for sure. Right. And, in many ways, the most generational division. So Chevron, Uber and LinkedIn are three companies that have taken on generation over dinner and are using it at scale. But the project that I'm most excited about you, we talk to you most excited about, and it's like, I get pretty excited about death, obviously. But this work with generations that we're doing in senior living, uh huh. The most the thing I'm most excited about. So there's, I don't know the percentage, there's a lot of us that are in senior living, and a lot of people that we love. And I had this realization one day that senior living, whether that's assisted care, independent living, etc, represents the largest and most concentrated reservoir of wisdom on the planet. And it's just sitting there and we are not tapping it. And we are not in conversation with it. And, you know, my mom, neighbor, and her senior living establishment is former governor Barbara Roberts, the first female governor of Oregon, who's unbelievable human being, no one goes to see her her family does, but she should, she would mentor people all day. And so we started working with senior living and was like, Sure if if we bring you generations over dinner, and also bring you the young people or you just open your doors to young young folks or people in the middle age one, you'll get more people who want to live in or work in senior living. But the loneliness epidemic that's happening at the oldest and the youngest, can be cured. And so now we're in like, 1000, Senior Living. Oh, I love hearing that. Well, my parents live and Valencia lakes, which is in Sun City, Florida, which is a quite a large 55 and older retirement village. And I was just spending a lengthy visit with them. And one of the things and I'm, I've always been an old soul, I have always had people in their 60s. In my life, I'm I'm in my early 40s. But I would go to the fitness center, this is just kind of a fun story. And I'd have lots of folks that I would just interact with, and they would just want to come up and give me wisdom. I saw a little lady, you know, like, like this, this man that was 90, which I wouldn't have known. He's like, don't stop moving. Like, okay, I'm not planning on it. And then this, this other man who was 66. But I want to respect their desire to share and it was it's beautiful, but you can't really get a workout in. But I love that. I love that, Michael, this conversation has been so meaningful. I just really appreciate how you have just started the conversation literally in so many important areas and your service. And I hope that we will be able to continue to converse, and I'm just very passionate about helping you amplify all these incredible movements. So thank you know, thanks for having me. And to those listening out there. It's all available. It's all free. Kind of never charged for any of these initiatives. So grab them, enjoy if death isn't the topic or psychedelic drugs had the topic that you're interested in generations over dinner is kind of for everybody. It is and all these links will be in the show. My notes, and Michael is also on LinkedIn. And he's got a website. And he's got a fabulous TED Talk. So all these all these links will be in the show notes, Michael, thank you again. Thanks so much talk soon. Hey, folks, thanks so much for listening to this wonderful conversation with Michael and I are on the intersection of grief and death. And therefore, how we want to fully live our lives. I wanted to share a few more thoughts and prompts, and resources, so that you could engage in this deeper inquiry around life and death for yourself when you're ready. And I'll start off with this, there is always a cycle of birth and death, and all things it's part of life. And nothing endures but change. And accepting this reality has the potential to transform the dread of dying into joyful living. I started working with cancer patients in my early 20s. And it informed me at an early age on the preciousness of life, I'd also had a meditation practice for probably a couple years before that journey of working with cancer patients. So I was already informed on how important being here for the present moment is. And I saw a lot of the patients that I was serving go through incredible changes when they knew they were about to die. I also saw some people that didn't have a chance to really pivot and had regrets on their deathbed. And last year, I knew that I needed a deeper reset for myself. And I took about 10 weeks sabbatical in Costa Rica, which is a place I've been going to for about 10 years. And I spent the first month in silence. And I have spent a lot of my life in the last 1314 years in silence. So I'd been getting myself ready to take a month, in some ways, because I had taken two to three weeks a year for many years. And it was incredibly nourishing for myself. And after I came out of silence, I prepared to die. Essentially, I had already decided to do a workshop with a teacher and a guide that I respected. And I shared a little bit about my experience with Michael, in the interview that you just listened to. But I had five days to live and die. And there were lots of very potent exercises that I did in preparation. And it was a real embodied experience. So much so that at the very end of the week, I was buried. And it gave me a lot to think about on how I wanted to live my life and what had the most urgency right now. And what came through were some really life changing insights. And I have as much as I can really try to orient my life around those insights into actions. And so one of the biggest aha was for me, when I knew I was about to die was I needed to invest in home, I needed to have a place to die. That was a place I felt safe, where I had loved ones where I had community where I deep roots. And I didn't have that. And I am cultivating that now I lived in the Bay Area for a lot of my adult life and because of how expensive it is, and because of some of what I chose to do during those many years, I couldn't invest in a property. And I frankly put the work of helping clients and companies above my own well being and my own happiness. And I wrote a book for almost four years. So there was a way that I was sacrificing my self in support of a purpose that I believed was more important. And that has really shifted I am no longer willing to make those same types of sacrifices for for the rest of my life. Because life is short, isn't it? And I think many people have been going through those same kinds of changes and acknowledgments over the past couple of years with the pandemic. And so as a result of facing my own death, I put some actions in place So that might be inspiring for you to hear. So I chose to spend three weeks with my parents in May, to nurture more connection really have meaningful time with them in these years where they're still healthy and able, and a lot of my life I have lived in California, and my family's in Florida, and it was incredibly sweet and tender. And I'm so grateful for it. And I hope that we will all have more time like that to connect, and get to know one another. There are ways that I know my parents now that I didn't know when I was a teenager, or even in my early 20s. And I think there are ways that they're getting to know me, as well. I have also recently moved to a community where I am really excited to invest more time and energy, in community in play in friendship, and belonging. And I'm holding greater boundaries around what is my right work, and what do I need that supports me to do that right work in a way that is balanced. So these are just some of some of the things that I have been putting into play. And frankly, one of the things that is also driving this greater motivation is that based on the warming that is occurring in the planet, and not knowing what is going to happen with our planet, and not really knowing how humanity is going to show up in this time, I know it's going to be hot, how hot it's going to be is up to us. And based on that there will be more adaptations, there will be more floods and fires and smoke and scarcity of water and resources. And therefore, in order to really enjoy my life, in addition to the My deeper purpose, to help solve some of these big problems we have created. I don't want to miss out on the beauty that is here. Speaking of the intersection of grief, and ecological death, I wanted to share with you some practices that I wrote about in my book that I think will be really helpful for you, if you like me, are also looking for those tools and resources to help you navigate what is here, what is coming. And so in chapter nine of my book, there is a practice. There's a couple practices actually one of them is turning emotional upset into inspired action. And I do believe that by having greater emotional resilience, we will have greater climate resilience. So allow yourself to just listen in to this excerpt from my book. I presented at Planet home in 2019, which is a gathering of changemakers scientists, Hollywood activists and musicians who are bringing greater awareness to climate problems as well as their solutions. During planet home, I led the participants of my workshop through a hike in nature in the Presidio of San Francisco. I invited those on the hike to notice what they love about Nietzsche, and based on that love what feelings arose when they thought about the Amazon burning, the glaciers melting, and the massive amounts of species dying every day. People shared deep grief, anger, fear, uncertainty and hope. Embracing the discomfort allows us to inform ourselves about how we want to act in service of the earth. So hearing that, I invite you to go out in nature once a week, and walk barefoot on the ground. Listen to the earth. Allow yourself to feel the nourishment from your connection to nature. And notice your love and appreciation of your surroundings. Let yourself feel all the feelings that arise about the destruction of our planet. And if the feelings are too much to bear, drop down to the earth with your hands and knees and let the earth hold some of your fear grief and rage. Yell if you have to let the emotions release from your body. You don't need to hold them in. From a deep place of feeling. Ask yourself how do I want to show up in service of To the earth, and then whatever answer arises, follow it. This will help you to stand in your commitment to be a good steward of this planet. And a couple of prompts for you, in addition to that practice before we end. When we think about using death as a catalyst to live a more meaningful life, there is another book that could also be helpful for you. There's so many, but this one came to mind. So Daniel Pink, an author that I respect, wrote a book about regrets. And he spoke about the five most common regrets that people had in life. So here they are, one, I wish I'd had the courage to live a life true to myself, not the life others expected of me to. I wish I hadn't worked so hard. Three, I wish I had the courage to express my feelings. For I wish I had stayed in touch with my friends, five, I wish that I had allowed myself to be happier. So in thinking about this conversation, what you've heard for me from Michael, if you're curious how you will start your journey to use death as a way to live a more meaningful and purposeful life. If you enjoyed this episode, please give me a five star review helps so much and then other folks can find the shine podcast, share with friends, family colleagues on LinkedIn, we are all in this together and sharing is caring. Are you seeking a catalyst to increase trust in your team upskill your leadership create a flourishing culture. I am your person. These are my areas of genius. And I love solving problems creating strategy, enrolling stakeholders related to these topics. And I've had incredible results with amazing companies. Reach out to me on LinkedIn, and book a consultation. I would love to help. I have some incredible interviews coming in the rest of this podcast season so make sure you subscribe to the shine podcast. Additionally, there's a lot of resources in the show notes around some of the pieces that Michael and I spoke about. Thanks so much for listening. And until we meet again, be the light and shine the light

We discuss the importance of discussing and documenting your medical wishes.

Hey Kits! Weekdays at 7-ish Eastern, we livestream The Daily Beaver Morning Show, a (sometimes) quick take on the news, in addition to our usual formats. We have a Thursday morning nibble for you. Today, we talk about: Having Lac Mégantic feels; Justice Rouleau Is Ready For His Close-Up; Advanced Directives for MAID in Québec Brenda Lucki resigns... err, "retires"; Black Justice Strategy; The David and Joyce Milgaard Law; Georgia Grand Jury On My Mind; Did Skippy Just Surrender the 416, 905, and 604? The Canada Health Act A Deserving Journalist Gets a Promotion Our morning show is the purrr-fect thing for busy Kits who are on-the-go, but still want to stay engaged. PS: This episode is also available on our new True North Eager Beaver Media YouTube channel at [https://youtu.be/KIxmYrXfxBo]. PPS: If you wish to encourage us to do more, leave us a positive review and stars on Apple Podcasts and/or buy us a cup of coffee. Just go to [https://ko-fi.com/eagerbeaver] to find your way to our tip jar. PPPS: And if you prefer to get something for your tips, we also have merchandise to show off: Eager Beaver and Blue Jacket Guy Civics Ts are now on sale (and wearing automatically boosts your romantic energy by 18.4%; our lab results do not lie). Being informed has never been soooo ♫ faaaa-bu-lousss ♪! Get yours here: [https://crier.co/crier-media-shop/?_shop_categories=true-north-eager-beaver]. This is episode 60 of our Eager Beaver morning show. ________________ Not everyone can do everything. But everyone can do something. Because democracy is something you do... The people of Türkiye and Syria need our help and the Government of Canada will be matching your donations to @RedCrossCanada's Earthquake in Türkiye and Syria Appeal, to a maximum of $10 million, if you donate between February 6th and 22nd. Find out more here: https://bit.ly/3x3ctcl ________________ Of course, retweets, shares, gentle corrections, constructive criticism, compliments, tips, requests, bribes to be on the show, and positive reviews (if you think we deserve some stars, please rate us) are always welcome. You can do that via our show's Facebook blog page, via Twitter @TrueEager, or by e-mail at TrueNorthEagerBeaver@gmail.com. And if you really enjoy our podcast, why not subscribe via our Podpage [https://www.podpage.com/the-true-north-eager-beaver/], and tell a friend? Until next time, be kind to, and gentle with, yourselves, Your Eager Beaver _________________ Thank you to our podcast's founding sponsors: * The Peppermaster * The Miss Vee Mysteries from Corvid Moon Publishing * Canadian Tarot Dot Com Artwork credit: Peter Jarvis [Recording Date: February 17, 2023]

HOST: Anne HillmanGUESTS:Rachel Bernhardt and Julie Raymond-Yakoubian, Alaska End of Life AllianceKris Green, Death CafeLINKS:Death Cafe, Anchorage Alaska End of Life Alliance:Death DoulasFuneral HomesAlaska Laws and RegulationsHospice and Palliative CareAdvanced DirectivesGrief and Bereavement SupportHome FuneralsOther Alaska End of Life Alliance resourcesFive WishesGUEST SUGGESTED READING:"Notes for the Everlost: A field guide to grief" by Kate Inglis"The Year of Magical Thinking" by Joan Didion]]>

When it comes to making important--and often difficult--choices about care needs at the end of life, sometimes we aren't in a position to speak our wishes out loud or make decisions in real-time.  We do, however, live in a time and a place where it is possible to write down wishes in advance, or to designate other people to make medical decisions for us in times when we are not able to communicate or are not conscious.  Collectively, those kinds of documents are called "advanced directives," and they allow people to instruct doctors about what kinds of treatments they do or do not want administered in the event they are not able to make those decisions for themselves.  And while it can be helpful to have these papers completed and on file, even more important is the conversation with our loved ones about what we want done or not done in difficult future situations.  How do we have these conversations?  That's where this week's episode of Crazy Faith Talk will take us--so join pastors Sarah, Erica, and Steve in our current series looking at death and dying with honesty and hope.

This episode goes deep as we interview Law Clerk Haylee Palmer of Marquardt Law Firm, P.C. and retired Reverend Patrick Erickson to discuss the law and the gospel about end of life decisions. What would you do if you were in a coma/incapacitated, but no one knows if you want to wait for a miracle or wait for the light at the end of the tunnel? Join Todd Marquardt every week for exciting law talk on Talk Law Radio! The mission of Talk Law Radio is to help you discover your legal issue blind spots by listening to me talk about the law on the radio. The state bar of Texas is the state agency that governs attorney law licenses. The State Bar wants attorneys to inform the public about the law but does not want us to attempt to solve your individual legal problems upon the basis of general information. Instead, contact an attorney like Todd A. Marquardt at Marquardt Law Firm, P.C. to discuss your specific facts and circumstances of your unique situation.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

While ensuring you get divorced the right way is important, be sure not to overlook all the other things you need to do as you transition to the next chapter of your life. Estate planning, both pre-and post-divorce, is so important. Too often, people ignore this essential process that everyone should do. In this episode with the incredible Lauren Bercik, Esq., we discuss: ✅ What is a Will, and why do you need one? ✅ The other documents you need in addition to a Will ✅ The process your loved ones will go through if you don't have a Will or have one that is done incorrectly ✅ The role of life insurance in estate planning and, in particular, securing support obligations in a divorce decree ✅ How where you live impacts Wills and other estate planning documents ✅ The importance of Living Wills, Advanced Directives, and Medical Powers of Attorney ✅ When and how you modify your Will during and after the divorce process AND SO MUCH MORE... You can learn more about our guest by going to berciklaw.com.

What is a Death Doula?What services do Death Doula's provide?How can a Death Doula help someone with Grief?What role can a Death Doula play in Advanced Directives, Funerals, end of life celebrations?If you are interested in learning more, check out this episode with Jill McClennen.  Jill is a certified Death Doula (which is a non-medical person trained to care for someone holistically at the end of life).  She offers support, preparation, and soul-level healing to her clients in person and virtually through her work as a death doula and end-of-life coach.  In addition to being a death doula, Jill is a trauma-sensitive yoga instructor, and she also uses reiki and shamanic healing techniques to help her clients heal their fears around death and dying as well as work with their grief.  Her path to becoming a death doula started when she moved home to NJ from CA and cared for her 90-year-old Grandmother at the end of her life. When she was faced with the fact that her grandmother was dying, she felt confused and overwhelmed because she didn't understand what caring for someone at the end of their life would be like.  She didn't know what to expect and did not understand what was going on with her grandmother as she got closer to death.  Now Jill helps families navigate the end of life. Jill can be found @https://www.endoflifeclarity.comhttps://m.facebook.com/endoflifeclarityhttps://www.facebook.com/groups/endoflifeclaritycircle/http://www.instagram.com/endoflifeclarityhttps://www.linkedin.com/in/jillmcclennenhttps://www.tiktok.com/@endoflifeclarityMarianne can be found @Website:  Message In The Middle with MarianneFB:  https://www.facebook.com/groups/422430469323847/

Michael Ivan contemplates his medical decisions during his last days...hopefully a long, long time from now. Find out who he picks to pull his plug! --- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/fiftyto50/support

Nurse Penny has been comforting and supporting people during their end-of-life experiences for many years.  She also has a substantial social media following on TikTok and Instagram.  Nurse Penny uses social media to educate people about Hospice Services, Advanced Directives and wills, and death anxiety and how it impacts our lives.  We encourage you to follow Penny on social media. We thank her for her advocacy and enlightenment on the subject of death and dying.Nurse Penny InstagramNurse Penny TikTokLearn more about the podcast & follow our story - deathwithdignitypodcast.com // @DWDPodcast2021 (Twitter),  dwd_podcast (Instagram)

On this weeks episode the guys are joined by Jizzle and discuss many topics including Serena's Retirement announcement, Deshaun Watson, Irv Gotti, Breakfast Club, Desus & Mero, Kobe, Trump raid, Young Thug, Nicole Linton Chrisean and Blue Face saga, Freedom of Speech verse Fat body shaming, Mental Health, The importance of Advanced Directives and more! Song of The Week: Puffin On Zooties x Future

Rayna Neises, ACC, host, reflects on her interview from last week with Pastor Rick Craig (Episode 129) and the discussion related to end-of-life preparations.  In his book, When It's Time: End-of-Life Planning at Any Age: Make it Part of Your Legacy.  Rayna shares more information on dealing with these tough issues related to end-of-life preparations:[2:09]  Know the difference between palliative care vs. hospice and that things have changed over the past 20 years.[3:30]  Understanding that palliative care might be an option for your loved one can be helpful.  [4:00]  Make sure wills are finalized, and that Advanced Directives and Do Not Resuscitate Orders are in place.[4:37]  Find helpful information at www.nia.nih.gov about making decisions for someone else at end-of-life.[6:30]  ‘Substituted Judgement' and ‘Best Interests' are two ways of helping to make decisions that you do not have black and white information about.  [9:23]  Ask specific questions that help you examine all the options.[12:21]  An Ethical Will (How To Write An Ethical Will | Everplans) is a will that shares your beliefs, values, and life lessons for future generations.  This episode has been brought to you by No Regrets: Hope for Your Caregiving Season. You can find it at all major book retailers and once you have read it, please consider leaving a review.

Big Ideas: 1.Bringing Back the Awareness of Death Being a Natural Part of Life. [2:55] – l – there were two things I've learned over the course of my career as a Hospice and Oncology nurse that made it go 80 to 90% better for people: The first thing is planning ahead with Advanced Directives and thinking about what you do or don't want at the end of life. The second thing is knowing the basic skills for how to care for somebody at the end of life in order to facilitate a good death.   2. The Five P's [5:00] – Darren is a veteran and there is an acronym they used in the armed forces that is referred to as “The Five P's”. It stands for Prior Planning Prevents Poor Performance. This can equally be applied to the end of life and death care. If you don't plan for it, nine out of ten times the end of life will not go well. If you do plan for it, people know where they stand, and the end of life can be a pleasant and enlightening experience. If we don't plan, everything falls on our family to make decisions and very rarely do families agree on big decisions about medical care at this stressful time. When we empower people to choose their wishes before the end of life, it makes us subconsciously want to live our lives each day the way we really want to. To live with as much joy each day as we possibly can.   3.The Inspiration Behind Darren's Work [10:30] – Darren has worked in Health and Social care providing technology services for over 25 years. He had no work-relation to end of life at the time or with end-user applications like the ones he develops now. Two and a half years ago, Darren's wife and sister-in-law became the primary caregivers for his mother-in-law who was suffering from aggressive Lewy body dementia. After his mother-in-law's funeral, he and his family were going through photo albums and discovered that they did not know many of the people in the photos and now that his mother-in-law had passed, that part of their family history was effectively lost. This led to Darren thinking of a way to incorporate technology to help individuals keep track of their family legacy. He created a “memory box” to use in hospice and palliative care for this purpose. Doulagivers are also trained in conducting life reviews with their patients for the purpose of legacy creation and retention as the end of life nears. It is an incredibly important, powerful, and healing exercise for them.   4.How the After Cloud App Works [16:05] – Darren's After Cloud app has been utilized in real world environments such as hospice to enable patients to create content based on four main focal points: Letters, Images, Videos, and Audio. Patients can use these all at once to create really valuable and meaningful moments and record things they want to share and celebrate into the future. A lot of people within Hospice wanted to see a chronological account of their life stories in addition to the content they had created. Darren got to work on making a timeline feature that anyone can use to create a legacy and have a highlight reel of their life to look back on forever. At Doulagivers, we talk about the importance of using techniques that allow the end-of-life patient to take control. This app is a beautiful example of this because it lets these patients choose the highlights of their life they want to leave behind for others to see. You also don't have to be at the end of life to use this app!   5.Memorials [21:11] – When end of life shows up in people's lives, it is often a crisis. This extends to when we hold remembrances for people – there tends to be a scrambling to put together a service and memorial and the rush of it all leads to things not going well in this regard either. When things are moving very quickly, and everyone is experiencing the trauma of loss, it becomes a difficult and unfortunate situation for the loved ones to navigate. There is usually a lot of complicated grief and bereavement being felt after a person dies and then you are tasking the grieving individuals to plan a memorial they weren't prepared for. Not allowing ourselves to stop and be present and process our loss so that we can begin to heal from it leads to a prolonged state of grief as well. Having a memorial plan in place before the time comes can make a huge difference to all of this. Personally, I would like to have a say in my own memorial, and I believe most other people would also. Utilizing technology, such as Darren's After Cloud app, can assist people with planning their own memorial and make that plan accessible to their loved ones after they're gone.   Resources: FREE Level 1 End of Life Doula Training. REGISTER HERE: https://www.doulagivers.com Visit https://myaftercloud.com Please Rate & Review the Podcast: Help us to spread the word to help people all over the world.

In this podcast we discuss Medical, Legal and Ethical issues as it relates to being EMT. We discuss Actual, Express, Implied and Voluntary Consent as well as HIPPA, Advanced Directives, Standard of Care, Scope of Practice, Negligence, Abandonment, Assault, Battery, and Kidnapping. Exclusive content at thepublicsafetyguru.com https://anchor.fm/thepublicsafetyguru/subscribe --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/thepublicsafetyguru/message

In this week's episode of  EnVibe Life Conversations, Amy and Cheryl are joined once again by Internal Medicine Physician, Dr. Denise Brown. Dr. Brown shares her vast experience in the areas of hospice and palliative care. They also discuss how advanced planning for end-of-life experiences and decisions can give patients and families greater peace of mind when the time comes. In this episode: 01:32 –Dr. Brown shares her personal experiences and how they fueled her passion to specialize in end of life care. 06:38 – What is hospice? 09:18 - What is palliative care? 11:01 – What is the difference between palliative care and hospice? 12:22 – Dr. Brown addresses common misconceptions surrounding hospice care. 14:26 – Death is a process. 20:24 – Dr. Brown talks about the process of hospice care and what patients and families can expect. 25:57 – DNRs (Do Not Resuscitate Orders), DNIs (Do Not Intubate Orders), and other advanced directives. 31:00 – The value of end-of-life planning.   Dr. Denise Brown's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/denise-brown-md-b8460a8/ EnVibe Life's October 2021 podcast with Dr. Denise Brown: “Ask Dr. Denise” with Denise Brown, M.D.: The Doctor-Patient Relationship

In this Fight Back Minicast, we cover the critically important topic of advanced healthcare directives, a legal document that addresses such end-of-life issues as “do not resuscitate” orders, treatment options, healthcare proxies, and more.

Turning pain into purpose can often be the cornerstone of activism. Dr. Lucy Kalanithi exemplifies that in her work as a physician. In this episode, Lucy walks us through her unconventional journey into activism. She explains what it means to find joy in the midst of suffering, the importance of discovering your purpose, and why she's fighting to make the healthcare system more human and more humane. Check out Lucy's podcast GravityFollow Isha Sesay on Twitter and Instagram. Follow Wonder Media NetworkWebsiteInstagramTwitter