Podcast appearances and mentions of cherie hu

Today Dmitri talks with Cherie Hu, music industry analyst and founder of Water and Music. We start by discussing the Ouroboros project which maps the complicated and intertwined stakes in the music industry held by various entities, including private equity firms, media conglomerates, and tech companies like Tencent. We also talk about shifting power dynamics between the majors and the independents, the impact of AI – particularly generative AI, and trends in rights management and live music.    Shoutouts Water and Music Ouroboros Map Water and Music Soundcloud Reverb Sold By Etsy to Fender Parent and Firm Led By SoundCloud Alum A24 Makes Its Move Into the Music Scene 'You Are Somehow a Villain If You Use It' JPMorgan CEO Says Something Everyone Can Agree On: "Kill Meetings" and Corporate Jargon   The Music Tectonics podcast goes beneath the surface of the music industry to explore how technology is changing the way business gets done. Visit musictectonics.com to find shownotes and a transcript for this episode, and find us on LinkedIn, Twitter, and Instagram. Let us know what you think!    Get Dmitri's Rock Paper Scanner newsletter.  

How do I define success—and how does that shape the decisions I make? In this episode of Transformative Leadership Conversations, I have the pleasure of chatting with Cherie Hu, a music industry expert and the founder of Water & Music. Together, we dive into decision-making in both creative and business landscapes, exploring how our interpretations of success can shape our paths and the strategies we choose.You'll here them discuss:Redefining Success: Leaders should understand that success can be defined in various ways depending on context, extending beyond just revenue metrics to include broader impacts and outcomes.Balancing Risk and Stability: Having a stable foundation is crucial for organizations, as it allows leaders to take calculated creative risks without putting their well-being or financial health at risk.Value of Experimentation: Embracing iterative experiments provides valuable insights and data, helping leaders make informed decisions and refine their strategies more effectively.The Power of Storytelling: Leaders can effectively communicate difficult decisions and rally support by crafting compelling narratives that make complex truths more relatable and understandable.Influence of Culture and Values: The culture of a company and its commitment to social impact significantly shape decision-making processes and how relationships with stakeholders are developed and maintainedResources:Cherie Hu on the Web I X (Twitter) I LinkedInWinnie da Silva on LinkedIn I Web

Water & Music founder Cherie Hu joins The Agenda to discuss how new technologies are impacting the music industry, and how innovative creators can use research-based methodologies to create art and build sustainable careers.The Agenda is brought to you by Cointelegraph and hosted/produced by Ray Salmond and Jonathan DeYoung. Follow Cointelegraph on Twitter at @Cointelegraph, Jonathan at @maddopemadic and Ray at @HorusHughes. Jonathan is also on Instagram at @maddopemadic, and he makes the music for the podcast — hear more at madic.art.Follow Cherie Hu on Twitter at @CherieHu42 and Water & Music at @water_and_music.Check out Cointelegraph at cointelegraph.com.If you like what you heard, rate us and leave a review!The views, thoughts and opinions expressed in this podcast are its participants' alone and do not necessarily reflect or represent the views and opinions of Cointelegraph. This podcast (and any related content) is for entertainment purposes only and does not constitute financial advice, nor should it be taken as such. Everyone must do their own research and make their own decisions. The podcast's participants may or may not own any of the assets mentioned.

Machine Learning. It's in the news, and increasingly, it's in our tunes. Somehow. Maybe? Given the ravenous hype cycles of tech, it can be extremely difficult to separate the real, the potentially real, the squint-and-maybe-you-can-see it, and “the SEC wants to speak to you now” of it all. To try and get a better sense of how AI is factoring into the present-day music industry as it actually, you know, exists, we talked with Cherie Hu of Water and Music. We discuss production tools, major label plots, social media possibilities, and push-button production, and tried to figure out the ways these technologies could be revolutionary—or more of the same. To put it another way? Come for the change—stay for the continuity.  subscribe to our newsletter!   Follow us on Twitter!   Music - Man Rei - "I Don't Want Money"

"What is our shared purpose and motivation for being here?" Our guest editor for June discusses community-building, innovation in music technology and more in this week's Exchange. Cherie Hu thinks about music differently. Trained in classical piano at The Juilliard School in New York, she went on to study math at Harvard while simultaneously launching a freelance journalism career. It was towards the end of her time in university that her parallel interests in music, writing and statistics coalesced in one long-term mission: to bridge the innovations happening in music creation and technology. First a newsletter and now an international membership-based platform, Water & Music was her answer to this unique topical intersection. "Water & Music's goal is to connect like-minded readers and develop a bottom-up culture of curiosity and critique around where music and tech are headed," she wrote earlier this month on RA. "Through media, my own personal goal is not only to document and analyse music-tech innovation as it happens, but also to foster a culture of proactive experimentation. I want to help artists and their teams use the tools at their disposal to expand the boundaries of possibility in both music and culture at large, and kickstart a longer-term dialogue around how music creators and professionals can incorporate tech into their careers in an ethical manner." Over the last few weeks, Hu has curated thoughtful and practical articles for RA that touch on the ethics and implications of AI, the metaverse and fandom, as well as more far-reaching topics that she explores in depth on the Water & Music website and Discord. In them, she urges everyone in creative ecosystems to think more critically about why trends happen, how we can cultivate sustainable artistic communities and the ways in which we can create more agency and collective ownership over how music is released and consumed. Listen to the episode in full.

GUEST BIO Cherie Hu is the founder of the music-tech research organization Water & Music. Water & Music's mission is to make the music industry more innovative, cooperative, and transparent, by building a collaborative data and education hub that consistently beats the market on identifying trends in music, technology, and culture. Previously, Cherie penned hundreds of articles on music and tech as a freelance writer for publications including Billboard, Forbes, Pitchfork, and Variety. She has spoken as an expert commentator on CNBC and SiriusXM Volume; as a guest lecturer at institutions like Harvard University, New York University, and Northeastern University; and as a moderator, panelist or keynoter at over 30 conferences around the world.. Twitter | LinkedIn | Web DEFINITIONS Merch: merchandise sold by music artists, eg. t-shirts. Bear market: market in which prices are falling, encouraging selling. Beat (journalism): area of specialization for reporters where their newsgathering efforts are focussed on specific subjects or locations. IRL: in real life (as opposed to virtually) AI: artificial intelligence ChatGPT: AI chatbot notable for its ability to adapt to desired length, format, style, level of detail, and language used Midjourney: Ai tool that generates pictures based on text prompts. Deepfake: synthetic media that has been digitally manipulated to impersonate one person's likeness convincingly. DAW: digital audio workstation, software used to record & process sounds. Splice: cloud-based music creation platform mostly known for its sample library. Blockchain/Crypto/NFTs MENTIONED What's The (Far) Future Of Music Listening? By Cherie Hu TAKEAWAYS Understand what you are committing to before picking a career and make sure it works for you. Being unapologetically yourself can help you stand out and carve out a niche for yourself. Partner with peers to create win-win situations that help you both grow. When trying to understand trends, it's helpful to ask whose perspective is being left out, and whether that information could move the conversation forward. AI will likely transform most jobs in some way, but the key is to find out what human skills are still irreplaceable. A company's incentives will dictate its policies on AI usage to automate tasks. CONTACT Instagram | TikTok | Web | LinkedIn | Twitter Host: Lazou --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/nuancespod/message Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/nuancespod/support

Cherie Hu and Diana Gremore from Water and Music join FOS to talk about their Decentralized Autonomous Organization dedicated to music industry research and data collection. For access to the full episode, consider joining as a Far Off Sounds patron - https://www.patreon.com/faroffsounds

Our good friend David Turner celebrated five years of Penny Fractions earlier this month with a live show at Nowadays. On stage, David was joined by our very own Sam Backer along side heavy-hitters Liz Pelly and Cherie Hu. Enjoy this live recording from the show as the crew run through everything you'd expect from a M4N discussion on the current state of the music industry: criticisms, hot takes, laughs, shade, shout-outs...oh and lollipops. Subscribe to our newsletter! Follow us on Twitter!

For episode 39, Kes chats with Cherie Hu, founder and publisher of Water & Music - a paid newsletter and research DAO building the innovator's guide to the music business

Cherie is the founder of Water & Music. Cherie talks Water & Music's transition to becoming a DAO, opening up the publication, world building, and more. Follow Cherie on Twitter (@cheriehu42) Follow Chase on Twitter (@chaserchapman) ‒‒‒‒‒‒‒‒‒‒‒‒‒‒‒‒‒‒‒‒‒‒‒‒‒‒‒‒‒ On the Other Side is sponsored by RabbitHole. Learn more about RabbitHole at rabbithole.gg Follow RabbitHole on Twitter at @rabbithole_gg

There's a whole lot of innovation going on as the music industry integrates the elements of Web3 into its business model. Relationships between artists and fans are evolving. Creators are generating income in new ways and on more favorable terms than legacy models offer. So, is the stage set for Web3 to replace Web2? Cherie Hu, the founder of Water and Music, joins Jack Spallone of HiFi Labs to talk about what she sees right now at the intersection of music and Web3. Many old-school industry insiders aren't yet keeping up with the music distributed and the artists distributing via NFTs, DAOs, and social tokens. That means cultivating a hybrid web presence is a major key for creators who want to build long-term careers. Cherie and Jack discuss that and many more emerging trends where music and tech meet. Recorded on June 9, 2022. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

On this episode of DAOn the Rabbit Hole, we're talking to Cherie Hu, Co-Founder of Water and Music, a research publication focused on the intersection of music and tech which has recently undergone the process of becoming a DAO. We kicked off the conversation discussing the state of the web2 music industry today and how blockchain technology and NFTs offer an alternative business model for musical artists and their fans.We discuss how digital scarcity is possible in the music industry, which is typically thought of as not scarce at all, with unlimited music streaming virtually for free. Cherie says that what is scarce however, is the relationship between artists and their fans, and it is this scarcity that NFTs can monetize. Cherie also lays out for us her definition of a music NFT and shares how these NFTs can be used to enhance the relationship between artists and their fans.Next, we break down some big topics into simpler terms. We go over the ways in which fans can acquire NFTs from their favorite web3 music artists and ways that artists can start onboarding themselves into web3. We dive into the complicated topic of DAOs and break down some possible definitions of a DAO. We discuss the creator economy and how NFTs can benefit not only artists, but their fans as well. Finally we wrap up our conversation by leaving you with some advice on how to onboard into web3 and get started with music NFTs. We hope you enjoy this episode of DAOn the Rabbit Hole!To continue this conversation and stay up to date on all things DAOn the Rabbit Hole, you can follow Anay on Twitter @anaysim and RabbitHole @rabbithole_gg. You can also follow Cherie on Twitter @cheriehu42. ⌛ TIMESTAMPS:0:00 Intro1:07 State of the music industry today4:09 How blockchain technology can affect the music industry11:35 What defines a music NFT?14:56 How does digital scarcity work in the music space? 18:03 How to acquire a token from a musical artist21:31 Web3 maximalist ideals in the NFT music space27:02 Defining a DAO32:31 Co-ownership and the creator economy37:44 Onboarding web2 audiences into web343:11 Getting started in music NFTs47:21 Follow Cherie! 

Hey everyone! This week we host the inimitable Cherie Hu to discuss the evolution of Water & Music into the first contributor led research DAO for the music industry, the changing definitions and focus of music & technology, Tik Tok and the politics (and occasional burden) of relatability. It was fun and revealing to work through the particularities and practicalities of making the jump into uncertain territory with Web 3 from a position in the more traditional music industry!Everyone should check out what Cherie is building with Water & Music: https://www.waterandmusic.com/Read the comprehensive $STREAM report: https://stream.waterandmusic.com/Follow Cherie: https://twitter.com/cheriehu42 

Welcome to new subscribers. One way to support The Rebooting is by sharing it with colleagues and friends you think would find it valuable. I still view The Rebooting Show, as well as the overall project, as a work in progress, so please let me know guests you'd like to hear and topics covered. My email is bmorrissey@gmail.com – or just hit reply to the email.Niche publishing brands are most powerful at intersections. For Cherie Hu, the founder of Water & Music, the intersection is music x technology x business x web3.Water & Music was an accidental brand in many ways. Cherie was a freelance journalist in 2016, relying on writing assignments from established publications like Billboard, Forbes and industry trade publications. Freelancers were the original creator class of journalism, well practiced in juggling the actual writing with figuring out taxes, chasing down invoices and, yes, tending to their personal brands in order to get the next assignment. Cherie created an email newsletter in 2016 to distribute her latest stories and added pieces she wanted to write anyway without waiting for a publication to run them. The newsletter became a creative outlet.It grew enough that Cherie moved it to Patreon, and by early 2019 it had attracted 5,000 free subscribers. Water & Music is now off Patreon and boasts over 2,000 members. It is also pioneering experimentation in web3 models with its own research-oriented decentralized autonomous organization and a $STREAM token. My takeaways from our conversation:Look for signals beyond analytics. Understanding whether you have the publishing equivalent of product-market fit requires looking for signals. Some are simple math: email subscribers, open rates, paying members, ad demand. But some are intangible, like people reaching out to you, asking how they can support your work and seeing people at conferences who are obsessed with the subject matter and want to connect to each other. “I realized that there are a lot of these readers who would have such amazing discussions with each other, but they just did not know each other.”Autonomy is more than money. Water & Music really took shape as a brand when Cherie started treating it as a creative outlet rather than a promotional vehicle. The individual-led brand allowed her the freedom to “have the kind of career that would allow for the kind of work that I wanted to do.”Build a team. One of the false dichotomies is this idea in the unbundling of publishing that you're either all on your own or buried in a legacy news organization. At some point, everyone needs to build a team, even if the relationships are more flexible than a typical company. “I  absolutely cannot do everything that is happening at Water & Music just by myself, especially in terms of how I want the community and the brand to grow.”Embed in a community. Just reporting the news is a commodity product. The way out is to provide extra value in the form of analysis and insights, while positioning yourself at the center of a community that wants to connect with each other. “If you're trying to build some kind of media business, there has to be some deeper layer around it, whether it's building a community or even just providing context or analysis.”Check out the full episode on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. Let me know what you think: bmorrissey@gmail.com.Optimistic mediaI don't know how many times over the years I've been called cynical. I

Music x tech x business x web3

If you work in the music industry you've probably heard of Water & Music. Founded by writer and researcher Cherie Hu, it is considered one of the most influential independent voices in music business journalism. Today, Water and Music is structured as a research DAO. But just 9 months ago, it was a paid newsletter and community—a web2 subscription business. How did Cherie transform it into a thriving research DAO? In this episode of TBH, we chatted with her to find out! We hope you enjoy this conversation as much as we did.

Today's guest is Cherie Hu, Seed Club alumni and founder of Water & Music, a membership-funded newsletter, research hub, and community forum focused on the intersection between music and tech. We discussed Cherie's process of building the foundation of Water & Music before making the transition into a DAO, the tools used to create deep, authentic connections between members, and how codes of conduct have emerged and adapted as the community has grown.

In the first episode in our web3 music series, Cherie Hu, founder of Water & Music, sits down with Ria to talk about transitioning Water & Music into a research DAO and Cherie's thoughts on the growing interest of musicians in crypto. We discuss: How Cherie found a niche covering the intersection of music, technology, and now web3 The decision to formalize the Water & Music community into a research DAO harnessing the wisdom of the crowds The shortcomings of early experiments with music and crypto and how the recent approach differs The salient macro factors contributing to enthusiasm and experimentation with music NFTs, DAOs, and social tokens The pushback against music NFTs by skeptical fans and artists

Does the world of NFTs and crypto confuse you? Well, Cherie Hu is here to thoroughly explain the world of social tokens in music. Learn why digital collectibles are on the rise, and what this means for the future of music. Cherie also discusses her next big predictions for the music industry, as well as her experience having dinner with Jack Stratton from Vulfpeck.  Cherie is an award-winning researcher and entrepreneur focused on the nexus of music, technology, and business. She is the founder and publisher of the paid music/tech newsletter Water & Music, and has freelance bylines in Billboard, Forbes, NPR Music, Pitchfork, and many other publications. She also teaches classes on music, business, and gaming at NYU's Clive Davis Institute of Recorded Music.  Big Takeaway: The economics of streaming does not work for all artists in all genres. By utilizing crypto and NFTs specifically, artists can code their own economics around their creative work into their social tokens.   Follow Cherie @cheriehu42 on Instagram and Twitter and learn more at CherieHu.com   Subscribe to her newsletter at waterandmusic.com  Voices Behind The Music is presented by https://feedmediagroup.com/ (Feed Media Group) and produced by https://my.captivate.fm/growthnetworkpodcasts.com (Growth Network Podcasts)

On this edition of the YMC podcast, Jay Gilbert and Mike Etchart cover: "Spotify Meets Shopify: Turn Your Artist Profile Into a Virtual Merch" (Spotify); "Tips to Monetize Your Music from Day 1" (Juan Camilo Sarassa/Keys of B#); "6 Of The Most Innovative Digital Music Platforms You Might Not Have Heard Of… From Around The World" (MBW); "How Much Are Artists Really Making On Twitch?" (Cherie Hu).  Subscribe to the newsletter! YourMorning.Coffee

Episode 60 On this latest edition of the YMC podcast, Jay Gilbert and Mike Etchart chat about these important stories: "One Year Of The Billboard Global Charts: The Artists, Countries And Trends That Are Shaping The Global Music Scene" (Billboard); "Just How Difficult Is It To Make A Sustainable Living From Streaming?" (Cherie Hu); "21 Revenue Streams For Musicians" (ASCAP/Dave Cool); "Music Attorney Dina LaPolt Marks 20 Years In The Biz, And 20 Lessons She Learned Along The Way" (Variety).  Subscribe to the newsletter!!! YourMorning.Coffee!!

From Guitar Hero and Rock Band to the Grand Theft Auto, Tony Hawk Pro Skater, and NBA 2K franchises, video games have consistently wielded significant influence on the way consumers discover and connect with music, both new and old. But in recent years, video games have become far more than just sync placement opportunities for the music industry; they've also transformed into merch tables, concert venues, lifestyle marketing partners, creative production tools and so much more. In this SXSW Session, Cherie Hu walks through a brief history of music and gaming partnerships over the past 50 years, dive into watershed moments from the late 2010s and early 2020s that vastly expanded the playing field of these partnerships and outline key trends that will shape the future of this landscape in 2021 and beyond.

On this episode, we chat with Ami Patel, a writer for Water & Music, a passionate analyst of the international music scene, and the “Leslie Knope” of K-Pop fandom!Ami is a music marketing strategist from Houston, Texas, with a Bachelor of Business Administration in Marketing and Entrepreneurship from the University of Houston. She has a passion for artist development and the global music market and frequently shares her thoughts on current music trends and new music discoveries on her website.In June 2021, Patel penned a 3,600-word tome titled “Anatomy of a modern pop fanbase: How fans use data to build their own music marketing powerhouses,” which will be the main topic of today's conversation with her. The K-Pop guide was rigorously researched and written by Patel and edited by Cherie Hu, who runs Water & Music, which is a membership-funded email newsletter, research hub, and community forum dedicated to unpacking the fine print of commercial, technological, and cultural change in the music industry.Patel was a recent participant in the first-ever Measure of Music music + data event in February 2021, and is joining us today from the great state of Texas.Note: Around 43 minutes in, Ami says, "1.93 million ticket buyers." The correct number is 1.33 million ticket buyers.You can connect with Ami on LinkedIn here.If you want more free insights, follow our podcast, our blog, and our socials.If you're an artist with a free Chartmetric account, sign up for the artist plan, made exclusively for you, here.If you're new to Chartmetric, follow the URL above after creating a free account here.

Cherie Hu is an accomplished musician, an award-winning writer, a columnist, entrepreneur, and self-described “professional overthinker.” Cherie specializes in analyzing, tracking and critiquing innovation in the global music business.Cherie earned her bachelor's degree in statistics from Harvard, studied piano and music theory at The Juilliard School, and has taught as an Adjunct Professor at New York University. Cherie has worked for Forbes, Billboard, and Music Business Worldwide.Cherie is also the founder of Water & Music. Water & Music is an independent newsletter, research hub and community forum that is “dedicated to unpacking the fine print of commercial, technological and cultural change in the industry.”The Water & Music newsletter reaches over 10,000 free subscribers and 1,000 paying members. Subscribers represent numerous industries: music, film, fashion, advertising, gaming, investment banking, venture capital and more.In this episode, you'll learn: How to leverage your life experience to dramatically improve your newsletter   Why freelance writers should focus on a core group of clients Why your audience needs a dedicated venue to find your content Links & Resources Zack Greenburg Forbes Billboard Music Business Worldwide Revue Greg Isenberg Kendrick Lamar Meets Quincy Jones on Hypebeast ConvertKit Creator Sessions Spotify Greenroom Twitter Spaces Tim McGraw Arnold Schwarzenegger's newsletter Cherie's Links Cherie's Twitter Page: @cheriehu42 Water & Music Water & Music on Twitter: @water_and_music Water & Music on Patreon Cherie's LinkedIn “Five Lessons From My First Year of Running a Patreon Page” Episode TranscriptCherie: [00:00:00]A 2015 interview between Kendrick Lamar and Quincy Jones, and Quincy Jones says the last two things to leave this planet will be Water and Music. I was just watching, and I heard that and it just immediately clicked with me. It's been called a universal language for a reason. I liked that concept of always having that at the center, even of conversations about the business side.Nathan: [00:00:30]In this episode, I talked to Cherie Hu. Cherie is an entrepreneur journalist writer, and she writes about the intersection between music and technology. She has this popular newsletter in a community called Water & Music. We have a lot of fun talking about how she grew the newsletter, her journey from piano performance, through to math and then into journalism. We spend a lot of time in this episode on some trends in the industry, not just, crypto and things like that, but also, Spotify and podcasts, and how the world of music and podcasts and newsletters is all intertwined. It's a fun episode.There's a little less hard hitting tactics of, “Do this next to the newsletter,” and a lot more on: this is what's going on in the industry and what you should pay attention to.Those are some of my favorite episodes, and this one is pretty great. So let's dive in.Cherie. Thanks for joining me.Cherie: [00:01:25]Thank you so much for having me, excited to be here.Nathan: [00:01:27]All right. So I want to start with your love for music and the music industry. Where did that come from? You went to Juilliard for piano performance. Tell me more about it.Cherie: [00:01:41]Yeah, sure. Yeah. It almost feels like a past life at this point. Right? I guess to be more specific about that, I did the Juilliard pre-college program. It's like a weekend program out of conservatory. And did that throughout high school where I would go to Juilliard, to the city on Saturdays, do private lessons, have classes in music theory, chamber music.And that, that was my path for a while, to just go to conservatory for piano and study that, and be a full-time performing pianist ideally. Very, very different from what I do now, but, still very near and dear to me. A lot of my closest friends, I kind of made in that environment, very intense, but fun environment.So, I guess my first and most intense involvement growing up with music was definitely on the performing and on the creative. At the same time academically, I was really into math and I was on the math team, did math competitions in school. I ended up majoring in stats in college, taking a lot of math and stats classes, but at the same time, a lot of music classes, and from a very early stag, trying to think about where those two worlds intersected.So, because I was more like a performer initially, I was thinking, applying math to music theory. I think that's still a really interesting like application area. I guess also in spite of learning, studying piano for 10 to 15 years, I wasn't even aware of the scope of what the music industry involved in terms of the jobs that were possible, the new kinds of jobs that were emerging, until I would say 2013, 2014.That's when I had the opportunity just to explore, this career path, to do a two week, two to three weeks shadowing experience at Interscope. It was with their A&R team. In terms of like actual like tasks, I didn't do that much because it was a short amount of time, but just that experience opened my mind, even to things like, like real questions, like what is A&R?I didn't really know what that was before, being in the middle of it. And also at that time streaming had been around for a while, but I think that period of time was really when Spotify had just launched in the U S, and it's really starting to pick up; Apple music with launch just a year or two later.So, the whole conversation around like who the main players were in streaming was also changing pretty drastically at that time. So, timing also plays a huge role in my journey to where I got to now. So, it's kind of through that. I realized I was interested in maybe applying like my academic interests on the staff side to more of a data analyst, or data-facing role in the music industry, whether that's at a label streaming service, music startup, et cetera. So, did a handful of internships kind of in that world, did some academic research on the music business from a tech perspective.So, especially looking at music, startups, and I'm super randomly at a career fair that my friend dragged me to, I very serendipitously read into my first freelance gig. I happened to meet an editor at Forbes there, his name is Zach Greenberg. He runs the entertainment coverage at Forbes, and he just happened to be looking for more music and tech connection. Columnists for the entertainment section, writing.So, this whole journey writing was never in the plan. I liked writing on the side for fun. I like had a blog that I would update for free occasionally, but I knew nothing about freelance writing freelance journalism, let alone newsletters, that whole world.But yeah, like very fortunately I think just my interest and my experience aligned really well with this, random, but really great opportunity to write about music and tech, for Forbes. So, yeah, that was my junior year in college. Very fortunately I liked that was kind of my way of diving headfirst into this world of writing.And, but very quickly I realized that writing is. Probably like personally my favorite and also think generally a really powerful. outlet for, especially packing, sorry, unpacking a lot of really complicated issues in music and tech. Like I was noticing at the time, in terms of like deeper analysis about what was happening in the music and tech worlds, it was mostly just kind of like one off news bites and headlines, not so much kind of deeper breakdowns of like the trends that were happening. So I decided to make that kind of my beat, like more like deeper enough. Of everything under the music and tech umbrella. So that could either be that you're the biggest tech companies like Spotify or apple or the like, you know, latest emerging startups.I've, I've just like fell in love with the writing process, and I've stuck with it ever since. And yeah, I can talk more if that's of interest of kind of how I shifted from that, to what I do now, which is, less freelancing and now like running my own newsletter.Nathan: [00:06:46]Yeah, well, I think that's great. I didn't expect, stats to be in there, like in the music to writing transition. Like I knew about, I guess the beginning and the end of the arc. I didn't realize that math and stats and all that was, was in the middle. is there an element of that, but that's still.I don't know that, that you still use or is that sort of like, you know, that it was a phase of life, phase of college that you've, entirely moved on.Cherie: [00:07:17]I think in, in, in shockwave there definitely are, things that I've like learned are just like a more like quantitative mindset, definitely learning, not to take like a given piece of data at face value. even like, yeah, like very simple things, like understanding, be like correlations expected values, like in the context.Yeah, like understanding, Yeah, Anything from like streaming to ticketing data. it can't be super valuable. Yeah. I usually don't do kind of more like in depth, like hard coding, like data journalism, I've done a handful of those kinds of projects early on, on the side, I would say. Yeah.Most of what I do is, I guess like more like holistic, like business reporting, or like this is analysis, but, yeah, definitely just the mindset and the training.To, especially for like, a theoretical math proof. Like you might not necessarily connect that to the experience of writing an article, but just like the training that, that experience gives you to like really, have a sharp lens for like any loopholes in logic, for example, like, oh, this argument, like doesn't really make sense.Like why are they skipping all of these steps or, yeah, I, I find like, not just in music, but in a lot of like business writing. A lot of people will make, you know, like just unfounded claims about anything and, people will kind of accept it as truth. So just, just that training to like really, you know, dig deeper into the actual reality of what's happening quantitatively or qualitatively. I think that's really helped.Nathan: [00:08:46]Right. Yeah.That makes sense. I mean, all of those things, I ended up serving people so much. Like we have a team member, who runs all of our, he's an engineer, his name's mark who work in Configit runs all of our onboarding and, and, like build out those processes for like the first one.You dig into his story and he's like, got a degree in psychology and then he turns to marketing and then programming and all of this.And you're like, oh yeah, I can see how all of those things like affect how you show up at work and why you're so damn good at what you do, you know? But then you, like, you don't realize that he did not follow a traditional path. Like, you know, like college, computer science, and then now I'm a programmer. It's like this whole arc and it it makes for some really interesting viewpoints on the world. Like, you know, how you approach problems and all that. So I could see that showing up a lot in your writing.Cherie: [00:09:41]Thank you. Yeah, I'm glad. Yeah. I'm definitely glad that you pick up on that. I think, and this is something that I've definitely seen thrive in the world of, newsletters or like niche media generally, like B not being afraid to. I guess also not only focused on a specific beat, but also look outside of your beat for inspiration.Like I, loved diving into, and I think the music industry should do more of, you know, for example, studying lessons and takeaways from, the media world or from gaming or from film. Like there's so many opportunities for just like cross collaboration and mutual learning. that I think is, yeah, definitely like under.Reported or kind of under-covered in media currently. So yeah, definitely in large part because of my upbringing and like really embracing that interdisciplinary nature. Yeah. yeah, so I'm, I'm really glad to hear that. It's it's it's come out network.Nathan: [00:10:34]Yeah, well, maybe take us through, you know, so you're starting freelance writing, you know, contributing for Forbes. where does that go from there through to running Water and Music now?Cherie: [00:10:45]So after college, this is, Around 2017 and fall 2017. I was very fortunate. And this is also a piece of advice that I would give to people who are interested in freelancing is, whenever possible, try to have, a small number of like regular anchor clients, but like publications you write for.So. I was very fortunate, not only to have this, you know, ongoing Forbes gig, but also a billboard at the time was looking for more tech coverage. So I was able to write a lot of tech articles for them. I had it, at, sorry. I had a column for music business worldwide as well under the trade publication, based in the UK. And I did do kind of like one-off pitches for other music entertainment publishing. But I would say those first three were definitely like my anchor, clients. And fortunately I was able to sustain myself on that for around two years. yeah, like very fortunately it wasn't just like, you know, trying to just grasp, grasp at straws or anything.So yeah, it's pretty regular cadence of like it's freelanced, very specific, you know, industry facing tech coverage. At the same time, I did have, a newsletter that I started on the side. initially I use the platform review, which just got acquired by Twitter this year. and I wasn't planning on monetizing it.It was just a way. to aggregate my freelance work elsewhere. and this is actually a point where I was, I was inspired by my reporting on the music industry and, you know, talking with especially independent artists, and hearing over and over again, the importance of owning the kind of relationship you have with your audience or with your fans, which is harder to do on social media platforms.I guess, in my case, as a freelancer, I was ha I was getting access to these, Huge, you know, legacy institutional publications, audiences that they built over years, if not decades, but of course I didn't own that. the brand, the company owned that. So from an early stage, I did realize the importance of, owning, I guess, like my audience or having, at least some kind of direct outlet, to, you know, to my readers, to give them a direct channel to me as well.Even just like having that newsletter. Which, yeah, it was like a regular digest of my articles from elsewhere. was really interesting, like channel for sourcing. Like I definitely heard from people in the music industry who I would not have heard from like yeah. Who I'm not have heard from otherwise who like PR people would not have, I guess, like, served or like pitched to me otherwise.So, definitely, yeah. Grateful for that, but again was not really thinking about it, as a business at the time.Nathan: [00:13:20]Yeah.And growing that newsletter, were you able to have like the, in your byline go when you're writing for Forbes or billboard, were you able to have a link off to your news?Cherie: [00:13:31]So, I think. As of now it's still totally depends on the publication. So, with Forbes, you are able to customize your bio. Forbes has a lot of contributors also who do have full-time jobs elsewhere. So yeah, they're pretty flexible policy of yet like sharing links to their company or like their other ventures, with certain other publications, Possible or it's like, you have to go through a lot of like hurdles to even like customize your bio.Yeah. So it really does depend, with the exception of Forbes. I do think, other, sorry. Yeah. With the exception of forums, I think it's mostly like smaller publications or like publications with smaller teams that are actually yeah. More lenient with that. but yeah, so I did get a lot of traffic from, from Forbes.Nathan: [00:14:16]Yeah, that's good. I remember, I'm trying to think who it is. If it's, I want to say it's Greg Eisenberg, but it might be somebody else entirely. Cause I'm like attributing a random tweet that I read. He was basically talking about. You know, all this time is spent as a journalist writing for cure particular publication and, you know, like 50 million page views on his articles over five years or 10 years or whatever, and then going like, but I didn't have a newsletter, you know, I didn't have a way.And he referenced it. He was like, that is your pension, like as a journalist, you know, your retirement plan, your whatever else. The thing that you're building is like that audience that you're able to link off to. and I mean, that's kind of how it, like you weren't full time for any of these one, like any one publication, but you know, each thing that you wrote, you got paid for the article, and then you're also able to get a little bit more of an audience, whichCherie: [00:15:09]Oh yeah, for sure.Nathan: [00:15:10]Allowed you to go, go out on your own.Cherie: [00:15:12]Yes. Yes, definitely. Yeah. So yeah, for the few publications, exactly. Like forums that where I was able to kind of customize and push the newsletter, or I guess also,I guess, yeah, the other tipping point in terms of the transition to now running my own newsletter, was starting to treat this newsletter, not just as like an aggregation of other articles, but as a source of original analysis.Right.So I would say like, yeah, that also around 2017, I started treating the newsletter more seriously as a place where you could,Iguess yeah. As an Aboriginal, you know, primary source for a lot of, especially my more like futuristic or like weird ideas about music and tech that might not otherwise necessarily fit neatly within these other publications I was writing for.I definitely treated it as a sandbox.And I actually saw a lot more growth, than previously, once I started making that shift to like, taking like, spent like, I guess dedicating time to, yeah, treating the newsletter as the source of additional analysis. And so I kind of did that for, around like a year, year and a half.And it grew to. where there was an established, I wouldn't say community, but definitely like audience and readership. at that time of, you know, people who were interested enough in music and tech to like often to stay subscribed to these kinds of ideas, I was like, oh, maybe there is something here.Maybe I can try, you know? Yeah. I had like interviewed a lot of artists who, how to use Patrion and succeeded with it. and I hadn't actually seen a lot of other writers take advantage of the platform. So I was like, oh, maybe there's. Yeah place for like, I, this is a community that I would want also as someone who's really interested in and like passionate about these topics.So, February, 2019 was a month. I decided to, launch the Patrion page from there. It's still did take, a good part of a year, with that. And also like, I didn't want to like, get rid of all my freelance income come overnight. I didn't think that was a sound business decision. so I still. Yeah, kept that up for a good part of a year.Then th the timing is surreal, like a bit strange to think about, because it was, like February 20, 20, so like right before the pandemic, you know, change the whole world and just uprooted everything. when I was actually able to make the switch to. work on my newsletter full-time or like maybe equivalent of a full-time income from patron income.Bbut it's yeah, super fortunate to be in that position and yeah, it's grown thankfully a lot in the last year. I think as a people, especially the music industry have woken up to the importance of. Not just tech generally, but also being willing to experiment because there was like no standard in the pandemic.There's like no standard, no rule for like, what does, like, what, what are, would not work? Because like, everyone was just like, you know, the live music industry was obliterated. a lot of artists just like lost, you know, the vast majority of their income. and I think a lot of people that environment yeah, were much more open to.New kinds of solutions, especially in tech for just, you know, connecting with fans online, let alone earning an income. So yeah, very grateful to be tapping that position to like help guide people through, this chaos and, yeah. So I guess like a year fast forward a year later, I just brought on two, part-time people to help.So now I'm thinking about hiring that's a whole other, you know, question and learning curve that you of course have, have gone through as well. that, yeah, like kind of how to grow from just being like a solo newsletter operator to, you know, building a water brand where multiple people can contribute still figuring that out in real time.But, yeah, so that's kind of the next phase of modern music this year.Nathan: [00:18:59]I like it. That's fun really quick. Will you share the name, water, and music where that guy.Cherie: [00:19:06]Oh, yes, of course. So, yeah, initially, you know, on the surface, not related to like business at all, so maybe not the best name, but, but I like it. it comes from a 2015 interview between between Kendrick Lamar and Quincy Jones.It was on Hypebeast. I think the interview clip is still available.And at the very end, Quincy Jones says the last two things to leave. This planet will be Water and Music. And I was just like, killing time on the internet, like watching. I liked both of those. I like both of them as artists and as people. And I just was watching this and I heard that and just immediately clicked with me, like, you know, personally, that's, that's how I connect to music in terms of like the value it has in my life and the role it plays in my life.In hindsight there, if you really want to dig deep, there are a lot of, like similar or parallel, words, or like a similar vocabulary with Water Music, like waves and a flow. I've I've been like trying to make a list of those like, like puns related to Water Music. So yeah, it on many layers are a lot of similarities between the two.Yeah, and I just, I, I liked that concept. You know, always like centering music, as just something that so many people love around the world, it's been called a universal language for a reason. kind of always having that at the center, even of like conversations about the business side.Nathan: [00:20:34]Yeah, I like it. You get people who get the reference right away orCherie: [00:20:39]No, that's what you were wanting to know. I also think Quincy is only said this in. Two interviews that I've seen. So it's probably probably a good thing. Yeah.Nathan: [00:20:52]You're going to get them to say this a little bit more. Cause every time he says it, it'll give us a little brand boost.Cherie: [00:21:00]There we go. Yeah.Nathan: [00:21:02]Okay. So I'd love to to throw some numbers in there. So if we go back to, I guess it'd be, when you launched thePatriot on like how many subscribers did you have and then on, you know, on the free side of the email list and then like, what revenue did you get over the next, like 30 days?Cherie: [00:21:19]Oh, gosh, so 30. Okay. The first 30 days, was not that much at all. And I guess also for more context, so the Patrion page, in terms of how I've communicated, its value to people. Has also changed pretty significantly between like 2019 and also 2023 now. So I started in 2019. I was, yeah, still mostly a freelancer people subscribe to my newsletter because they wanted to connect to me the individual, not so much like Water and Music as a brand.So I launched the patriarchy page.The same way that I think a lot of, artists, other artists, or like writers creators do on Patrion, which was as, as a more altruistic way for people to support my work, if they wanted to. And then as, as part of that, they would get access to, you know, this more specific community.You know, there's a discord server integrated with the patron membership has a lot of, you know, other creators do on, on that. But yeah, but the framing was, you know, if you're able to, we really grateful if you could support my work, I'll like maybe write some exclusive, like articles, share some exclusive thoughts, for members only.And you can be part of this community. And so within 30 days, I, so the, the free tier at that time was, not more, it was around like 5,000, like 4,000, 5,000. So like not decent, but not. but so I still pretty small within the first 30 days. It was not that much at all. Cause I, I don't think I like marketed it well, because I guess that wasn't my goal necessarily.It was just like, you know, here's a channel that's available if you do want to and are able to support. So it must've been definitely on sub 100 people the first 30 days I say, so as far as conversion rates go, not very good. but yeah, again, like at the time I hadn't really like settled on. you know, Water Music on the standalone brand.I think it was just kind of like testing the waters, by the end of year one. and I, I also published a, like a free recap, of kind of my first year of Patriana on LinkedIn. which I think if you search it on LinkedIn with my name should be able to find it. but by year, end of year one, I think I had, 250 paying subscribers. or I guess paying members is a term that,Nathan: [00:23:42]And the price from there started at $3. and and like what were the different price points at the time? Cause now it's like $3, $10 and 15.Cherie: [00:23:51]So it was $3, which is the base parents just gave you base community access, $7, which is still like the main, definitely the most popular cheer today. It gives you access to. like exclusive articles. and also like now I do a lot of like research and gathering a lot of data. So access to kind of like research products, underWater Music.I, this process has been a bit delayed because of the pandemic, but I'm also writing a book on the side, about the concept of artists entrepreneurs. And so there's a $15 a year, $15 a month tier that also gives you access to. I guess like, like yeah, book research,or like drafting updates. I kind of think of that as a kind of book advance, on the side that's like crowdsourced and then, yeah, at the time I did have a tear, which I actually did.You don't have any more and I can like talk through my thinking about it. I had a $200 a month tier that, was basically a way to fund like hourly consultations is how I thought about it. other patriotic. Yeah. So people who subscribed, who joined that tier, could have an hour long call with me every month.If they wanted to and just talk about, it was a lot of like startup founders, also people in the music industry who just wanted to, yeah, just like get more of my thoughts directly. One-on-one on a specific music. so yeah, I did keep that tier, on for a good part of a year as Water and Music and like the value I think of why people subscribe to the Patrion page has shifted from like a more altruistic, and like very individual focused, like source of value, like I'm subscribing and I'm paying for an access to like Cherie specifically to, More like, and so I think this is like maybe not the most, like positive term, but I think it is like the right way to think about it.Like, self-serving on the part of the reader. Like people are now paying for Water Music. because they want to get smarter about music attack that I want to like learn more insights on music and tech. It's more for their own growth, as opposed to like more altruistic. oh, I guess the term I used in my recovery is utilitarian.Like it's a utilitarian, community driven, but still utilitarian kind of. No reason to pay. as that shift happened, having like a direct consultation tier, that was very much tied to me. it didn't really make sense. There was some kind of like clash with, kind of the branding and the ethos there, a Potter music.So I don't have that anymore, but now I do have, in place of that, a lot of higher tiers work groups of, group subscriptions and group memberships. So there are a handful of, companies in the music and tech worlds that have come on. Like discounted group memberships, which, which is really great.Great to have more people on board also definitely easier to handle from like an accounting perspective. So, yeah. but yeah, so now, like it's like now the tiers are from $3 a month. We're still the lowest one to, like a hundred, $120 a month. But those are for larger groups of people.Nathan: [00:27:06]Yeah, I like it.And so then, like how many subscribers do you have on the newsletter now?Cherie: [00:27:11]So, I guess as of recording this, I haven't, published the free tier in a while. I'm really focused on, like really honing the paid member experience. Yeah. So there are, around 1600 paying members. on, through the patron membership right now, the vast majority of them are also in discord server, but not all of them.And yeah, they're all, I think that also represents the kind of pages under size as well. The free tier right now. as of the last time that I sent out an email, it went out to 12,000 people.I do want, I am going to revamp it and relaunch it this year. but yeah, I guess I think the paid tier is probably the most.Accurate or reliable, kind of signal of how big the community is just based onNathan: [00:28:01]Yeah.Cherie: [00:28:01]Of activities right now.Yeah.Nathan: [00:28:03]Yeah, that makes sense. And we had done like you and I met from, when converting acquired fan bridge. And then I can't, and we did a live to an end to discord server, which was really fun because there's just a ton of people really engaged and.Nathan: [00:28:19]When it comes to newsletters and all that school pay attention to like the total account.And they're like, oh, you know, 2000 is bigger than 1000. And you know, we like count up from there, but we don't ever think about, like, let's say you were doing a piano performance in front of 1600 people. Like that is like, that fills a really good size, you know?Cherie: [00:28:41]Yeah.Nathan: [00:28:43]And so people are like, oh, like I only have a thousand people on my list.Or, or even if someone says, like I only have 10,000 people on my list. I'm like, that's like a third of a football stadium.Cherie: [00:28:53]That's a really good number. Yeah.Nathan: [00:28:56]That's a lot of people. So I love that you have the, the smaller paid group that you're especially investing in.But I'm curious about is why you chose that model, instead of saying another model of, monetization say like, Courses or, or books or like one time sale productsCherie: [00:29:15]Hm.Nathan: [00:29:16]Or even like sponsorships, you know?Right. Did you explore other models before settling on membership?Cherie: [00:29:24]Interesting question. I think at the time I, settled on membership just because that I think was the best. Model for also, yeah, I guess in the immediate context of launching the Patriot on page for people who wanted to support a writer or creator directly, I think having that like were regular, I was also thinking about, you know, as opposed to how freelance writing normally works and how writers normally get checks, like having a more, much more regular, predictable source of income.I don't think like that about just the subscription slash membership model in general.Cause why would that, I have seen that. Again, this is not like a music specific issue, but, a lot of the biggest like trade publications, there are probably certain things that they can or cannot write about because of who their biggest advertisers are.I think it's definitely, you know, common knowledge and it's, it's like a tricky situation, especially with like trade publications, I think, across business. And I just didn't want to get into that, like situation did that conflict of interest. I decided to, you know, like, like just keep everything like ad-free for as long as I can, the one, area where I probably would want to bring in a sponsor in the future, is for in-person events.I think it makes a ton of sense to have a sponsor either like hosted at their office or, like pay for drinks, food catering, et cetera. So I think, yeah, that totally makes sense. So I probably will look more into that in the future, but, yeah, as of right now, I was just looking for kind of the.Simplest easiest to understand easiest, to handle like regular predictable sources of revenue and the monthly subscription slash membership model made the most.Nathan: [00:31:06]Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.I'm curious as you've been writing about tech and music and intersection yeah. Those worlds. What are some of those interesting things that you think are happening right now where you're just like, you know, it's the sort of thing that you're out at, at, during your happy hour with your friends.And they're like, okay, you talked about this a lot. And you're like, no, but let me tell you more about that.Cherie: [00:31:26]This actually, I went, as of recording this, I went to, my first. Industry like dinner slash drinks event is literally a year and a half.Yesterday in New York it was very like jarring to like be in that environment. But by far and no surprise, like the top, the most popular topic of a night was crypto.And like the whole hype around NFTs, like where our music NFC is gonna go, are they useless? Like what is actually their purpose in the first place? So the world. Music NFTs and encrypto is particularly interesting to me right now because the music . Industry has been through this wave of hype before. I remember the very first industry conference I went to, personally was also the first time I even learned about what blockchain was.This was back in 2015. I mean even earlier stages. and it was a blockchain one-on-one panel and, and it ended up being a shouting match essentially between, this like representative from like very old school music industry, like from a performing rights organization, didn't want to share any data, very skeptical about blockchain and, a startup founder who was essentially trying to disrupt that person's company at that like really set the tone.In like a, in a maybe, you know, net negative way for just to how the music industry responded to blockchain, how they saw it as a threat. Unfortunately, this is a pattern, throughout, you know, the history of music, especially you look back at piracy, like seeing new tech as a threat, as opposed to, you know, adapting more to it and try to add value to it and then benefiting from it as a result.Yeah. The music industry has historically struggled with that, but I like about the. More recent wave of hype, even though of course. Yeah. There's like tons of money being thrown around for, you know, who knows why around these, you know, digital collectible meme, you know, you, you, you name it these NFTs, is that there's like less focus on how do we get these, you know, very, very large corporations, a lot of bureaucracy to agree, to share their data for this blockchain application to.We don't need them. We'll just, you know, start making money ourselves and like create entirely new kinds of markets and economies around art, music, creativity, et cetera. I personally am like much more excited by that. And I do think they have like bigger music companies are seeing that and being like, it's probably not a good idea now to like stop this activity, but we do have to think about where our role, like what our role is in this ecosystem and how we can add value to that.So, yeah, that's definitely like top, top of mind for me currently. something that is, will be really interesting to watch, especially in the next couple of months is how, what role, if at all, technology will play in the return to in-person life. probably another one of the big, like music tech, trends or shifts in the last year was, the rise of live streaming.And just, you know, the fact that Twitch, for example, now has a dedicated, you know, music team that's really flushed out and a whole separate music category, on their page that, I don't even know if that would have been feasible, you know, where it not for just the circumstances of the pandemic.A lot of artists were just, you know, not just performing shows online, but also engaging with, bands online through, through live streaming. and yeah, it'd be interesting to see, one like yo brother, the con, whether the concept of a live stream concert, will still be sustainable as like a standalone business model.There've been so many, like startups sounded that, in my opinion, essentially all offer the same service. I could be wrong, but, basically. Aloud bass ticketing, you know, bass like Twitch style interactive, live chat for a like, I guess for a performance that you watched through a screen. I think a lot of people would agree that it's not as compelling.As you know, being in a venue in person, you know, being surrounded, you know, shoulder to shoulder by all these people who are all super passionate and excited to see this artist perform on stage. I, yeah, I, I personally am like much more excited about the line. That said, I do understand the importance of accessibility, and like, you know, making concerts more available, especially to people where it just might not be feasible for artists to tour there.So, that's like one thing that they watching out for is how, you know, just this, unprecedented investment in live streaming, over the last year, how, if at all, that will carry over, to, you know, in-person touring, which a lot of artists, promoters, venues, et cetera, are like preparing for. Right.Especially as cities are reopening. hopefully I hopefully all that investment will not have been for nothing. but, but we'll see.Nathan: [00:36:14]Well, yeah, that's what I mean, what we're seeing just on the ConvertKit side, pushing into music. And like we were one of those, those, companies that made the pivots related to the pandemic where like we took our entire. Budget. And since events were no more and we started running what we called ConvertKit creator sessions, you know, like booking these artists to do, highly produced at home performances and like storytelling and all of that.And like, none of that would have happened if it wasn't for the pandemic. Cause the artists wouldn't have had the time to do it. They wouldn't have.Sure I'll be hired for this. They're like, no, I have like thousands of people in a, you know, in a concert hall, but I need to go perform for, so a lot of that changes, but then, yeah, I'm curious what, like what we'll stick around, you know, it's, it's, sort of like the Clubhouse,Cherie: [00:37:02]Yeah, yeah,Nathan: [00:37:03]Rises like crazy, cause everyone's like, I have nothing to do.Like it's 10:00 PM. The kids are in bed. I've watched everything. There is on Netflix.Who's having a conversation about the future of the music industry on Clubhouse. LikeCherie: [00:37:16]Yeah, exactly.Nathan: [00:37:18]Like I'm in, you know, from 10:00 PM to 2:00 AM, like. Sure. and then now, like if you would tune into some of those sessions, there's nobody in them. Right. Because we're all at happy hours, we're, you know, like flying outside if we're, you know, doing any of that. And so it's, it makes me curious what of these things.There's so much that changed over the last 14 months and what's going to stick around, you know, and then, and what's going to revert. do you have any take on which things you put in?Cherie: [00:37:50]So yeah, just thinking about it this week, because Spotify, just like launched their own Clubhouse competitor. they, I guess they'd acquired locker room slash Betty labs, which was kind of a, they're developing a niche version of Clubhouse, more focused on sports. Yeah. Spotify, bottom relaunched, a Spotify Green Room this week.And I think so. Okay. One, one really interesting shift that I have seen Clubhouse make. I don't think we'll make it easier for them in terms of like surviving as a sustainable platform is that they seem to be shifting their branding from being an audio driven social network where, you know, you can lock on a Clubhouse and, you know, meet all these people from all over the world who have similar interests who otherwise would not have met on Twitter or Facebook.Like that was a draw to me early on from that to like a very, like programmed top-down. I think if it's just like a live radio network. So if you think about how they have a whole like, actually both Clubhouse and Spotify and, probably some other companies in your future, they have these creator funds.So they're funding. These shows that are going to be happening, you know, programs on a regular basis on the app, on Clubhouse. Even just like tiny features, like the ability to, type in a text chat in real time during a conversation and Clubhouse still doesn't have that. And so it also is very, it's a very dramatic difference.Like you're either, on the Clubhouse stage and you're, you know, like leading and you're interacting or you're company, the passive there's no, like in between. And I think a lot of the, if you look at like Instagram lives or like Twitch, sessions, Twitch chats, a lot of the entertainment or like social communal value is in that kind of middle ground of interaction.Like being able to even like react with an emoji, let alone, you know, like type in a text chat or request, you know, like ask a certain question in text form. So, and Spotify does have like the kind of text feature that Spotify greenroom. So, yeah, so I, I am like noticing this, this shift towards, yeah, like funding, more formal shows focused on developing IP.I feel like the companies. We'll succeed the most at that are companies like Spotify that already have that IP. So if you like open the greenroom app, I opened it yesterday when it first launched. And of course at the top of my feed was the ringer, which Spotify owns. and they were, you know, recording their like NBA podcasts with like bill Simmons was a guest briefly.So, you know, of course like Spotify now has that whole, I guess has like completely verticalized. Podcasting like every step of podcasting within its own company. So totally sense that they'll use Grievant to kind of promote those shows. I do think so. Twitter spaces, I think is. Like has it interesting with different territory?I think they have a vision. That's more about, holding audio rooms within specific communities. Like I know they're working on building like a Facebook groups, competitor, like on, on their own platform. So you can like, host a.Twitter spaces chat only for people who follow a certain topic like VC.I think that makes a ton of sense discord, to their credit. They've had voice chat within like closed communities for several years. and now they, but they also have like a more, you know, properly stage like Clubhouse clone feature now. so it's just a matter of like other tech companies catching up. So, but for, I guess, for those to like sum all this up, and those specific models of like, I guess social audio as a, communal feature, like a way to connect with other people that is very, it's very, very hard to compete. I think with, these bigger social platforms that already own those social graphs, like try to create a whole new social graph through audio is, is really difficult.I think Clubhouse like really captured lightning in a bottle, like throughout last year and did do that for some people, but not.Yeah, all these other incumbent companies coming in, it's really hard to compete with that. And then for like the, the live radio podcast network model definitely companies that own,I, I guess Spotify is, is in a unique position because they both own IP. And one of the biggest, you know, streaming platforms in the world, for, for audio, at least. So they'll probably be the leader in that, but, Amazon now owns a podcast company they own Wondery. So it's also like only a matter of time, I think before. other like other companies, other streaming services come in and compete for that model.So that's kind of like the two areas that, that I'm seeing like fragmenting right now.Nathan: [00:42:34]Yeah.It's fascinating. The amount of money that is coming to play in the space, you know, even.I think you see examples of this in acquisitions when like Spotify acquired Joe Rogan's content, you know, acquired his show and, or I guess just exclusive rights to his show is all day quiet, but their stock price went up by so much just off of that announcement that it like way more than paid for, you know, so they were like, that was free.And so, you know, from a grassroots perspective, there's not really. Because there's so much money being thrown around that. Like, I don't know that you can compete with these other platforms. Cause like Spotify is going to say, this is our platform. Oh yeah. And we're already going to funnel everything that we have in here, you know?And so that, that's just fascinating to me. Another thing on the Spotify side that I onlyrecently learned, actually from talking to people at Spotify. In their business model in hindsight, this makes perfect sense.But in their business model for music, they pay out substantial fees to the artists, all of that, right?There's all kinds of licensing who owns the masters, who owns that individual recording, who wrote the song, oh, you like that? You know, the little bit of money for every stream gets parceled out so many different directions and it can be very company.Cherie: [00:43:59]Hmm.Nathan: [00:44:00]And in podcasting, it's very simple, you know, in fact, all these odd casters, like a podcast stream, like someone who's listening to this episode on Spotify right now is worth just as much as Spotify as like a song stream,Cherie: [00:44:15]Hmm.Nathan: [00:44:16]Have your attention.They have you.Cherie: [00:44:18]If anything it's worth more because, I guess in, yeah, if you're listening to music then, I'm actually, I'm not sure about like the actual fine print, but yeah. Listen, like they have to pay exactly. Except like 70% of their revenue,Nathan: [00:44:35]Right?Cherie: [00:44:36]Music to like rights holders. Whereas like podcasting is like a whole separate pool. Yeah,Nathan: [00:44:40]Yeah. And for, for better or worse as a podcaster, we're not, we're not going like, Hey, where's my car.Cherie: [00:44:47]Mm,Nathan: [00:44:48]You know, cause we're like the expectations, like you don't get a cut, you know, you monetize through sponsorships through your other thing. And so Spotify sitting back like, yeah, I know you, of course you don't get a kid.No one gets to, you know, when they're over here and like going,Cherie: [00:45:00]Yeah,Nathan: [00:45:01]A way better business.Cherie: [00:45:02]I think the, yeah. It's oh gosh, a whole other issue. So yeah, I do think in that. Podcasters are going through an almost like worse version of what, independent artists have gone through in terms of their critique of Spotify and like lack of, leverage and yet kind of like lack of this sense of they are also benefiting from the growth and, you know, Billy dollar valuations of, Spotify as a company that said, I, I do think kind of on the flip side pod-casters right now, could be a blueprint for artists in the future in terms of like Spotify, for example, and also apple they're investing in a lot of like direct to podcaster or direct to podcast monetization models like apple, like they both are working on pocket subscriptions, apple just launched their, you know, pockets.Like show level subscription model, this month, and a lot of people in the music industry have been like, what are their biggest critiques of Spotify from the artist perspective? Is that it really there's like few, if, any ways for the artists to be able to connect, to communicate with fans like that is, not the purpose of Spotify, the purposes to just make it convenient, to access all these millions of tracks, make it really easy to discover artists, but not really.Strengthen and maximize the value of the artist's fan connection. and some people also joked, and like the Water Music server. Oh, like what's stopping and artists from. Just releasing their songs as a paid podcast. And like maybe making more royalties from that probably probably they'll run into like, if they own all their IP, they own all their copyrights. They could pull that off. If you don't of course, like probably brought it to some kind of licensing issue, but, I'm glad those conversations are happening.You know, just the, yeah, the model of getting paid, an average of just a fraction of a penny per stream. Isn't the only way, like, look at these other creators on the same platform that we rely on every day.They're now able to make, an income directly from their listeners and supporters. Like why shouldn't there be, that same option for, for musicians, for artists. So, I, I think that, yeah. That awareness of different, you know, models, business models for like on the artist level around streaming. And they've been really good, but yeah, to your point, for, for Spotify, it's podcasts are just an easy way to kind of circumvent licensing and, really, I think they are trying to become the major label equivalent in podcasting and how aggressive they are about acquiring IP.Just because it doesn't exist, maybe it's harder for them to create these like direct to artist subscription features, for example, And music because they have these relationships with the existing major labels and they can't really like tarnish that if they want to keep music on their platform.So definitely lots of, lots of layers there.Yeah.Nathan: [00:47:59]Yeah. And it's fascinating. We'll see a lot more, you know, like the Joe Rogan deal or the ringer or those sorts of things really stood out.But now like just the other day they announced the call me daddy podcast w was acquired.Yeah,Cherie: [00:48:14]The deal. Yeah.Nathan: [00:48:16]That's amazing.There are startups that have raised crazy amounts of funding that don't sell for $60 million. Yeah, so that, that, is fascinating. Let's, let's bring this conversation to thenewsletter side of things, because in, we have a lot of the same dynamics happening, or like same tensions happening in newsletters between large publications and solo newsletter, creators, and, and all of that.And like you're as much in the middle of that world as you are the music side of it.So what are you seeing? And what's your take on it?Cherie: [00:48:48]Yeah, I, oh, gosh. Yeah. I think about this all the time. I think there are a lot of parallels yeah. Between, I guess, thinking also on the, so yeah, sorry to backtrack. So there are multiple layers. You could look at this. a lot of like media companies and music companies face similar, challenges with, tech and social media platforms.For example, like the, the relationship between, like media companies and faces. it's quite similar to the relationship between like labels and Spotify in terms of that tension of you know, who has more power, this, this struggle always with like, not be able to control the context in which, you know, you, I guess your work is delivered fed to potential readers or potential like audience member.The fact that Spotify is also even now, you know, creating a, an advertising product where artists and labels have to pay to reach certain fans that is literally a copycat of, you know, these existing social advertising platforms.So lots of parallels on that level, on the individual creator in this case like artists or writer level, actually think in some ways, writers, the, the individual writer situation is even worse than the music.Because I, so even with like the recent, you know, newsletter, boom, as a freelance writer for income, I feel like you do. Immediately rely a lot more on these by-lines of bigger publications to like, make a name for yourself, let alone earn income. There's just by nature of the like freelance economy.It's, it's really, really hard to, you know, build a newsletter from the ground up. If you don't already have like access to those bigger audiences. Somehow I think that is a reality of, of running a newsletter, especially from scratch. And there is a whole wave now of, like freelancers, actually very similar music, like freelance writers, try to unionize like collectivize around, you know, also asking for a better terms, in freelance contracts.But like a lot of the times. Yeah. So not only do you, like a lot of writers rely on these bigger, like brand names to, earn income, but depending on the publication, you, You might not, especially if it's a bigger one, you probably don't own your own IP. Like you're spending hours and hours doing these interviews, writing these articles, but the, but the publication ultimately owns them.I think is the Washington post, is like in the middle of the controversy this week. as it recording because they are like making it a lot more difficult for writers to even like talk to, like an agent, a talent agent, if they want to like write a book. So like, I guess that's more in the case of full-time staff, but it does translate to freelance contracts, like, you know, the right to use, this article you published in like a book they might write later on. So lots of, yeah. Parallel issues or like leverage around like IP ownership. and yes.So I do think now with, with newsletters, I am surprised that there aren't more musicians who, like are investing heavily in newsletters in a capacity. That is not just like marketing. So like if you subscribe to exactly. Like if you subscribe to especially more on the label level, like a universal music groups, like newsletters, it's just pure marketing. There's no sense of it being like personal, not even like deeper copy. It's like let's just images and links to, you know, stream us on Spotify.Maybe it's because like, not all artists are like comfortable with. Crafting and like writing these more long form, like text experiences, which, maybe that makes sense. but yeah, so, so now I do think in terms of like the newsletter academy of, I guess I'm thinking of like sub stack being the prime example of these, like, you know, individuals stand out personalities, building their own newsletter brands.Writers are definitely like leading the way in terms of that, like direct to bat. You know, or direct to reader direct to supporter, kind of like channels and income than the music industry is right now. but yeah, like historically there've been a lot of parallels in terms of issues that, that both like creators of both worlds have faced.Nathan: [00:53:13]It's interesting what you're talking about. Cause you're, you're absolutely right. That not very many artists. Personal like behind the scenes, get to know me sort of approach. A lot of small artists will do that. People who are up and coming and getting established, think about artists that are on like convergence platform that have been on for awhile, even like Tim McGraw, like he's been on our platform for quite a bit, and it's still a bit of a push to get them to do more storytelling and less marketing, you know?To make that distinction because they're like, oh, here's a single that's coming out. One thing that they have done is like more behind the scenes video and things like that.And so we, as part of the reason we've built into ConvertKit like native video integrations where you can play it directly in the, by the video drip email, because like talking just with Tim's team, for example, They'll be sitting down to film something big and then they'll be able to get them to film for like five minutes talking directly to fans, you know?And that's like, okay, we're already here. We've got a studio set up. Like, yeah,I'll record something for the newsletter. The example that I love to see more of is like, oh, Schwartzenegger runs a ConvertKit newsletter and hit, this is so good. It's like all the behind the scenes and the stories and like answering fan questions.Why, I dunno, what would it take to get Dereck to do somethingCherie: [00:54:36]Yeah, yeah,Nathan: [00:54:38]It would be amazing.Cherie: [00:54:39]Yeah,Nathan: [00:54:39]Be phenomenal. So, but that, that pivot hasn't happened in music yet.Cherie: [00:54:45]Yes, I guess you mentioned Kendrick specifically. I think he's a great example of an artist who is so revered and respected and it's just like so talented. and like everything he does, but is also very private, like aside from album releases, he will like rarely do interviews. you're very lucky that you can just get a handful and yeah, so this is on social media. Instagram, YouTube just very like quiet most of the time. and that works for him.I do think. Yeah, it is important for artists or musicians generally to like not let the tech Dick, I guess not let tech tell you what to do. Like.Only invest in yeah. Channels that you're comfortable with that align with like what you're really good at.Yeah. Especially with, I guess like text-based storytelling or more personal storytelling, like newsletters are great, but if you're like not ready to do that, that's fine. you know, you don't have to, so, yeah, I think it's, there, there is a bigger, I guess, trend to APAC in music as well of, This expectation among a lot of fans that artists are almost like a friend. I think this is the, like the, impact of social media also extends to like influencer culture. Like, oh, I'm following this influencer on Instagram. I, I saw what she had for breakfast. So clearly I've, you know, in her circle and like, I might as well be his, her, their, you know, their, their friend, and that like requires a lot of openness and vulnerability.That means. Yeah, I think certainly not all people let alone, not all artists are comfortable with. but yeah, I'll say like the slow, steady rise up these letters. It'll be interesting to see how it like meshes with that trend of just expecting artists to be a lot more vulnerable and open live streaming.Certainly. I think like fits into this category as well.Nathan: [00:56:32]Yeah, I think so. I, I mean the trend of only continue. So, and then like, as that's been established, many times over email is not dead. Newsletters are on quiet, quite a ride.Maybe bringing it back to, you know, to Water & Music and everything that you're doing.What are you looking to do next? as far as maybe the next milestones for Water and Music.And then how you think about growing to get to those? Like, what are the things that you're doing to grow the audience or grow the revenue?Cherie: [00:57:00]So yeah. Next steps. There are a lot of, yeah. As different moving parts. So, I guess earlier I really briefly mentioned events. I think that will be really important. I guess after the pandemic kind of dies down and conferences come back, for example, as like an individual freelance writer conferences, where, by far like one of the most effective, just like marketing, audience, building networking tools, especially meeting people, in the music industry specifically who, who, yeah, I would not have met otherwise kind of through more formal, like PR interactions or interviews.So, definitely wanna invest more in that, especially around those kind of like industry conferences that happen every year. A separate new Water Music website is in development. that will definitely be a milestone in terms of being able to have much more control over the reader journey. Like the reader experience, making articles like I've published, I think over 150, like articles slash posts on the Patreon page at this point, but the search functions on Patreon are not the best.Very open about that. So definitely want to, yeah. The website would really help out with that. So that that'll be a big milestone, definitely like hiring is like something I'm also like figuring out in real time in terms of what's the. Like combination of people to bring on. So right now I would say the three pillars of a Water Music does, is like editorial, like long form editorial analysis.Research, very data, heavy research, and then, community in terms of your discord server and our Hangouts. So, in terms of like hiring, bringing on more people to help like manage all those three different parts that like work together, in a really, and so it works good in, in, in a really complimentary way.That'd be a big priority for, this year as well. yeah, I guess like the only other thing that comes to mind. And I don't, I haven't like figured out how to like formalize this or structure this. but going back to this notion of interdisciplinary, thinking about the future of music and about energy.I do think, you know, we were just talking about, Clubhouse and Spotify Greenroom, and podcasts. A lot of people might think of that as a podcast story, but it absolutely is a music story as well, because it could, you know, like Spotify pushed that feature like a new app to artists. And I think the music industry could use those kinds of features in really interesting ways.So that's one example like music and podcasts conversion. Music and gaming. of course I think are, are converging a lot more, especially looking at the last year. So you know how to build and expand editorial coverage in a way that reflects that. that'd probably be into more in the form of like hiring more people who are able to like, who are experts, not experts, but are like fluent in like multiple areas of entertainment and how they merge together.Very like specific kind of, I guess niche, view on, on business, but definitely something I wanted to like take more seriously in the future.Nathan: [01:00:06]Yeah.Yep. That makes a lot of sense. Well, I'm excited to continue to follow everything you write about the industry and all of that. And for anyone else who wants to do the same, where should they go to follow you online and subscribe to the newsletter?Cherie: [01:00:20]So definitely the best way to learn about what, Water Music and all the different parts of membership is just to go straight to our Patreon page. it's patreon.com/WaterandMusic, and all spelled out. I'm on Twitter @cheriehu42.You can also find the Water Music Twitter (@water_and_music) in my bio also. So you can follow, the membership slash newsletter there. And yeah, hopefully you can, hopefully those of you who are listening, some of you can join the Patreon page and you can find me in our Discord server as well.Nathan: [01:00:56]Sounds good. Well, thanks for joining and, and, we'll talk soon.Cherie: [01:01:00]Yeah. Yeah. Sounds good. Thank you.

We're in an unprecedented moment of emergence: long-shuttered venues are reopening their doors, artists are hitting the road again, and you're probably thinking about what concerts you'll be heading to in this new world. We're looking ahead to a summer full of live music, and what it means to listen together -- again. Hanif speaks with GRAMMY Award winning artist, Esperanza Spalding on creating ‘Songwrights Apothecary Lab' and how live music can help rebuild our communities. And journalist Cherie Hu shares her predictions for the future of live music. Plus, listeners call in and share reflections from their favorite festival moments,/Show Notes/ Cherie Hu's newsletter is Water and Music.Esperanza Spalding's latest project is the Songwrights Apothecary Lab. She has also released music that she worked on at the residency.  Hanif and Cherie bring up Verzuz and Mark Rebillet's improvised performances. Hanif tells a story about performing at the Eaux Claire's Festival with Julien Baker in 2018. /Credits/This show is produced by work by work: Scott Newman, Jemma Rose Brown, Babette Thomas, Mayari Sherina Ong and by Hanif Abdurraqib. The show is mixed by Sam Bair.  

This episode features five brilliant thought-leaders – Michael Miraflor, Josh Constine, Jarrod Dicker, Cherie Hu, and Sam Freedman – answering the question: what’s a consumer problem or challenge that you don’t think has been solved yet? What their answers reveal are consumer pain points that need to be addressed – essentially, unlocking new markets and roadmaps for brand growth. With additional comment from Stylus analysts.

When we first covered the vast amounts of cash that companies like Hipgnosis were throwing into the music publishing market, we thought things had hit some sort of insane peak. Well were we VERY wrong. In the months since, the press has been filled with one enormous deal after another, peaking (at least for now) in the reported sale of Dylan’s entire catalog for 300+ million dollars. But does…any of this make business sense? Or is it just rank speculation? And how will it shape the future of music?  To sort things out, we got together a dream team—Cherie Hu of Water & Music and David Turner of Penny Fractions—to talk through what’s happening and what might come next. Sign-up for our newsletter to receive bonus content! 

Episode 21 On this episode, Jay and Mike discuss:  - "2021 Music Business Predictions & Trends" (Hypebot).   - "Top 100 Livestreamers in 2020" (Pollstar).  - "Spotify Now Hosts 70 Million Songs - But It Can’t Keep That Up Forever" (Rolling Stone).  - "More Major Artists Are Starting Their Own Labels - Don’t Expect Them To Be Any More Equitable" (Andrea Bossi and Cherie Hu). - "How TikTok Created 70 Major Record Deals And Billions Of Video Views In 2020" (Music Network).                      Your Morning Coffee Newsletter                                     http://bit.ly/381NKJF

For the past five years, Cherie Hu has turned a passion for music into a niche media company with her ideas at the center.Her popular newsletter, Water and Music, covers how innovation and technology in the music industry really work and has established her as a sought-after expert for anybody looking to grasp what is going in the space.On this private call for Foster and Water and Music members, Cherie revealed the lessons she's learned building her credibility in the music industry, spinning up a niche media company, and establishing herself as a sought-after expert in a crowded space.

We welcome award-winning music-tech journalist Cherie Hu to discuss the influence new digital experiences are having on artist monetisation, how this impacts the future of the music industry, and where video games and social media fit into it all.

Music Tech journalist and researcher Cherie Hu wrapped up the recent Music Tectonics Conference with a fireside chat with Dmitri Vietze. Listen in on their conversation to get a taste of Cherie’s upcoming book on how artists can run their music careers more like tech entrepreneurs. How is recording an album like developing software, and how has the pandemic led artists to change their approach? Music Tectonics can watch the sessions they missed in the Music Tectonics community app! Visit MusicTectonics.com to learn more. The Music Tectonics podcast goes beneath the surface of the music industry to explore how technology is changing the way business gets done. Find us on Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram. Let us know what you think!

Open Mike Eagle is an artist, runs a record label, recently launched podcast network, co-created The New Negroes on Comedy Central, & has a merchandise company. He also has a few podcasts of his own: Secret Skin & What Had Happened Was with DJ Prince Paul (both are linked below) & has appeared on many podcasts (I highly recommend his episode of Father Hood.) You may have seen him on SyFy, Adventure Time, Black Ice, or It’s a Party. We dig in to a little bit of what he does & answer listener & fan questions. Listen to & purchase his new album “Anime Trauma & Divorce” https://openmikeeagle.bandcamp.com/album/anime-trauma-and-divorce Follow Open Mike Eagle on social: Twitter: https://twitter.com/Mike_Eagle Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/open_mike_eagle/ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/mikeeagleraps Watch Call & Response on Blavity: https://youtu.be/wmPkoIMdHr8 Open Mike Eagle & Lizzo “Extra Consent” on The New Negroes: https://youtu.be/HslbuwTMhrw Merch Engine: https://shop.merchcentral.com/collections/merch-engine Explore Stony Island Audio podcasts (including Mike's podcasts): http://mikeeagle.net/stoneyisland Subscribe to Cherie Hu’s Water & Music: https://bit.ly/35eE11f Super Duty Tough Work Podcast: https://open.spotify.com/show/2iFnRgQZRH7u0tpLgNN8OF Watch Video Dave’s music video for Tuesday: https://youtu.be/qstPRbgffm8 Open Mike Eagle on Father Hood Podcast: https://fatherhoodspod.com/ep-99-unapologetic-dad-trap-feat-open-mike-eagle/ Brain Study on Rappers: https://www.nature.com/news/brain-scans-of-rappers-shed-light-on-creativity-1.11835 #BTSPodcast music-specific episodes: https://bit.ly/3mwwLmW Support this podcast by becoming a monthly contributor at anchor.fm/btspodcast. Join Acorns (Acorns referral link: acorns.com/invite/L33KZP), sing up for HotelTonight using LCOOK61, and/or Soothe for in-home massages with LZLRZ. Use my promo code for Instacart for $5 off your first delivery: LCOOK5130 Follow #BTSPodcast on social Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/btsthepodcast/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/btsthepodcast/ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/btsthepodcast/ Join the Facebook group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/1720173561544455 --- Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/btspodcast/support

This is a recording of our webinar discussion on the latest music strategies from big tech companies! We broke down the latest and greatest from Facebook, Apple, Amazon, Netflix, Google, Tencent, and more. Cherie Hu is an award-winning music journalist and founder of Water & Music where she unpacks the fine print of innovation in the music business. Her work has been featured in Billboard, Forbes, NPR Music, Columbia Journalism Review, Pitchfork, Rolling Stone, Music Business Worldwide, Variety, CNBC, and more. Listen: Apple Podcasts | Spotify | SoundCloud | Stitcher |  Overcast | RSS Hosts: Dan Runcie, @RuncieDan, trapital.co Cherie Hu, @cheriehu42, cheriehu.com Links: Slides shared during webinar Hip-hop’s influence continues to grow. Learn how it impacts your business. Join the execs, CEOs, and moguls who read Trapital: trapital.co

We’re back with a Part 2 of our talk with award-winning journalist Cherie Hu, who has been covering the intersection of music, technology and business for over five years. In this section, we get her hot takes on recent headlines involving the geopolitical TikTok debate, virtual singing competitions, and of course, Kanye West. We also visit Cherie’s well-informed crystal ball, and hear some of her predictions over the next few years on Kobalt Music, audio on Amazon and Audible, and songwriting artificial intelligence. Finally, we get into how Cherie has grown her 8K-member newsletter Water & Music and 600+-member Patreon community to support her ability to provide independent insights and cultivate a like-minded community of innovators. Towards the end, you’ll hear a question from one of our newer writers, Michelle Yuen, whose work you can find on our blog at blog.chartmetric.com.

In Part 1 of our conversation with music tech soothsayer Cherie Hu, we go down two futuristic rabbit holes, including what streaming technology will look like in 2040 and what role "fake" artists have in the future of the music business. Plus, we dive into the future impact of gaming and film on music.

In this time of global uncertainty what does the future hold for the music industry? Christian Ward talks to Cherie Hu, founder of Water + Music about how the industry is changing in response to the pandemic, what that means for artists and performers and how brands can play their part.

Fabrizio Onetto “Mopri”: Mopri es sub director de contenidos y desarrollo artístico en OCESA Seitrack, la compañía que se encarga del management de artistas como Ximena Sariñana, los Ángeles Azules, Zoé, Sebastián Yatra y Morat entre muchos otros grandes talentos. Además, Mopri forma parte del consejo directivo de Discos Panoram (la disquera de Zoé) y participa de vez en cuando en proyectos de supervisión musical. Pero déjenme decirles que lo que más disfruté de esta charla y de lo que me di cuenta mientras sucedía es que Mopri tiene un gran conocimiento sobre la industria y comparte una perspectiva global acerca de ella. En esta ocasión nos platica sobre la importancia de las canciones y las colaboraciones entre equipos creativos, el funcionamiento de la industria musical en mercados asiáticos y cómo podríamos adoptar ese modelo en América. También nos cuenta cómo fue llegar a México, pasando por Panamá y conociendo grandes artistas en el camino. No se pierdan el final porque Mopri nos comparte las 3 cosas a evitar para tener prospectos de éxito en la industria, según sus fuentes. Espero que disfruten este episodio tanto como yo. Recomendaciones de Mopri:

Cherie Hu is currently working on a book about the parallels between independent music careers and tech entrepreneurship This week she joins us to discuss these parallels along with why social media and engagement is missing from the digital streaming services. Cherie is an award-winning journalist and researcher who has been covering the intersection of […]

Cherie @cheriehu42 @water_and_music is a music journalist focused on the industry side. Her work helps a huge problem with the music industry, the exchange of information and learning. It's been historically difficult for anyone, but particularly the non-white and connected individuals, to learn how the music industry works. Writers like Cherie make this available to everyone. When I was a kid, it was Hits Magazine and Hitmakers, but only the already in the industry read it. Bob Lefsetz branched out with his email newsletter. UK started to fix things with Music Week, which inspired Billboard to pivot to Billboard Biz, and brought us Tim Ingham's Music Business Worldwide, which lead to Rolling Stone including this type of journalism. We have more like Mark Mulligan. It's getting a lot better. Cherie is the only non-white male I can think of doing writing at this level. Check out her Patreon, I highly recommend subscribing if you're an artist or industry member. https://www.cheriehu.com https://www.patreon.com/m/waterandmusic --- This episode is sponsored by · Anchor: The easiest way to make a podcast. https://anchor.fm/app --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/teawithsg/message Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/teawithsg/support

Music and technology researcher, Cherie Hu, and regular techspert, Prof Aisling Kelliher explain the power of influence of the video app Tiktok; comedian Marise Gaughan is thinking about vices and how we acquire them; while composer, Jennifer Walshe contemplates this year's Pride without a parade.

How online games like Minecraft and Fortnight become virtual concert venues. Featuring Julia Alexander (@loudmouthjulia) Cherie Hu (@cheriehu42) Links to resources discussed: I Tried to crash the VIP area at American Football’s Minecraft concert Host: Arielle Duhaime-Ross (@adrs), host and lead reporter of Reset About Recode by Vox: Recode by Vox helps you understand how tech is changing the world — and changing us.

Check out this letter by legendary music lawyer Ron Sweeney: https://www.musicbusinessworldwide.com/the-elephant-in-the-room/Check out this article by Jon Platt, CEO of Sony/ATV: https://hitsdailydouble.com/news&id=321726&title=JON-PLATT:-A-CHANGE-MUST-COME&redirect=mobileCheck out this article by Cherie Hu of Water & Music: https://www.patreon.com/posts/37921297Donate/Get Involved: https://blacklivesmatters.carrd.co/

For the latest Debate, Luke Clancy gathers a Zoom panel of producers, performers and observers to hear how they see the pandemic and its aftermath reshaping performance. His guests are author Nancy Baym, journalist Cherie Hu, cellist Francesco Dillon and musician and composer, Matthew Nolan.

Lo-Fi hip-hop has emerged as a hugely popular genre and internet subculture. Its millions of loyal fans rely on curated lo-fi playlists and live-streams to write to, study to and even fall asleep to. Heck, we even wrote a good chunk of our book to Spotify’s lo-fi beats playlists. There’s just something about those ambient, spacey, plodding beats that place us in a state of determined zen. But what of its musical roots? Who are its stars? And why, despite its mass following on YouTube, Spotify and elsewhere, is it nearly impossible to spot on the Billboard? We trace lo-fi from its godfathers to its moments in the sun, to the complex creative ecosystem playing out on streaming platforms today. MORE You can find music from this episode on this week’s Spotify playlist Sign up for Cherie Hu’s newsletter Water & Music that sent us down the lo-fi hip hop rabbit hole Check out Seneca B on Spotify: Check out weird inside on Spotify Check out eevee on Spotify SONGS DISCUSSED Brenky - Bye Brenky - People J Dilla ft. Common, D’Angelo - So Far To Go Isley Brothers - Don’t Say Goodnight (It’s Time For Love), Pts. 1&2 Charlatan - Wasted Jazz Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hip Hop is one of the strongest cultural systems in modern times.  What can we unexpectedly parse from it to use in our daily lives?  This week Double 0 sits down with music business journalist Cherie Hu.  They discuss how artists will make money moving forward since the old paradigm is broken and what digital creators may come out on top after the pandemic subsides.

In this episode, we sit down with our first repeat guest on the podcast, Cherie Hu. Cherie is an an experienced music industry analytics, freelance writer and owner of the independent media ecosystem Water & Music. Cherie’s expertise in the music industry lies at the intersection of music and tech, of which she provides insight and updates via her newsletter and podcast. Outside of her own media properties, she’s been freelanced to write for publications including, Billboard, Forbes, Music Business Worldwide, Rolling Stone, and many more.In this episode we discuss how her workflow has changed since quarantine, if the pandemic will change future music business people's career choices and what sector they want to join in the future, what parts of the industry will grow faster or potentially come to light as a result of the pandemic, and more. As always never hesitate to leave a review or reach out to @musicbusinesspodcast Instagram with any feedback or ideas. Thank you for listening! Check out Cheries podcast here: https://waterandmusic.transistor.fm/ And her newsletter here: https://mailchi.mp/9ab07d2b7dc4/waterandmusic See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information.

Industry journalist Cherie Hu joins Music Tectonics host Dmitri Vietze for a conversation about her research and summary of live streaming music platforms. The two discuss the big picture of the music field's response to COVID-19, approaches of specific artists, and dive into how this moment might lead to leapfrogging some of the past barriers for music tech use cases like performing on a screen, virtual reality live performances, or collaborating remotely. Listen to the two compare audience engagement in live streaming versus in person shows and go down the rabbit hole of what makes artists feel like it's harder than ever to make a living in music.   The Music Tectonics podcast goes beneath the surface of the music industry to explore how technology is changing the way business gets done. Visit MusicTectonics.com to learn more, and find us on Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram. Let us know what you think!

Cherie Hu joins host Lawrence Peryer to share her thoughts and insight on the New Normal.Cherie is an award-winning writer and researcher who specializes in analyzing, tracking and critiquing innovation in the global music business.  Her email newsletter, Water & Music dives deep into hot topics in the music business and reaches nearly 6,000 subscribers weekly, from budding artists and managers to C-Suite executives at major labels and tech companies.You've probably read Cherie's bylines in Billboard, Forbes, NPR Music, Columbia Journalism Review, Pitchfork, Rolling Stone, Resident Advisor, Music Business Worldwide, Variety, DJ Mag and many other publications.To learn more about Lyte visit www.lyte.com Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Cherie Hu joins host Lawrence Peryer to share her thoughts and insight on the New Normal.Cherie is an award-winning writer and researcher who specializes in analyzing, tracking and critiquing innovation in the global music business.  Her email newsletter, Water & Music dives deep into hot topics in the music business and reaches nearly 6,000 subscribers weekly, from budding artists and managers to C-Suite executives at major labels and tech companies.You've probably read Cherie's bylines in Billboard, Forbes, NPR Music, Columbia Journalism Review, Pitchfork, Rolling Stone, Resident Advisor, Music Business Worldwide, Variety, DJ Mag and many other publications.To learn more about Lyte visit www.lyte.com

Episode 3, Are Robots the new Songwriters?, explores where music technology is headed. We consider whether robots and AI will take over, how technological changes have affected the live experience, the recent uptick in bass heavy beats, and how tech apps and musicians might start to take advantage of the physiological relationship between music and our bodies.In this episode, we hear from Aron Magner and Jon Barber of the Disco Biscuits, Steve Martocci of Splice, Cherie Hu, music and tech writer, Andrew Sparkler of Downtown Music, and Andy Weissman, managing partner at Union Square Ventures.Let Creativity Flow is produced by Osiris Media and brought to you by Splice, a music creator marketplace for samples and software. Visit our website to learn more and to see a special offer for listeners of this podcast. This episode is written by Amar Sastry, and edited and mastered by Revoice Media. Many thanks to our interviewees—Steve Martocci, Cherie Hu, Andy Weissman, Andrew Sparkler, Aron Magner and Jon Barber. See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information.

The first episode of Let Creativity Flow focuses on a modern way musical hits are made, how gatekeepers in music have changed, and why computers are the most important musical instrument today. Interviewees include Andy Weissman of Union Square Ventures, Steve Martocci of Splice, journalist Cherie Hu and Andrew Sparkler of Downtown Music. Let Creativity Flow is produced by Osiris Media and brought to you by Splice, a music creator marketplace for samples and software. Visit our website to learn more and to see a special offer for listeners of this podcast. This episode is written by Amar Sastry, and edited and mastered by Revoice Media. Many thanks to our interviewees—Steve Martocci, Cherie Hu, Andy Weissman, Andrew Sparkler, Aron Magner and Jon Barber. See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information.

The Collaboration Paradox starts with the Splice origin story, exploring the ways musicians and producers collaborate in the modern age. We consider the past technical limitations to collaboration solved by Splice and how music distribution formats (vinyl, cassette, CD, and now streaming) have changed the way music is made. We also discuss viewpoints on some glaring questions -- is there such a thing as cheating in music? Is technology cheating when it comes to creativity? The episode also dives into the collaboration and creation process on Splice, showcasing a few examples of how a sample can turn into a song.In this episode, we hear from Aron Magner and Jon Barber of the Disco Biscuits, Steve Martocci of Splice, Cherie Hu, music and tech writer, and Andy Weissman, managing partner at Union Square Ventures. Let Creativity Flow is produced by Osiris Media and brought to you by Splice, a music creator marketplace for samples and software. Visit our website to learn more and to see a special offer for listeners of this podcast. This episode is written by Amar Sastry, and edited and mastered by Revoice Media. Many thanks to our interviewees—Steve Martocci, Cherie Hu, Andy Weissman, Andrew Sparkler, Aron Magner and Jon Barber. See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information.

We're back with 5 things you need to know for February 28, 2020. #1—Jam Just Happened on March 20! Scott Metzger will be leading another supergroup on March 20 at Nublu in New York City. This is another full evening of improv with people who have not played together before. The partial lineup right now includes Metzger, Adam Chase from Jazz is Phish, John Kimock from Mike Gordon Band, and Andy Hess, who has played with John Scofield and many others. Get tickets today. And if you missed the first one, you can watch it here. #2—Charlie Hunter on JamBase Podcast. On a new episode of the JamBase Podcast, Charlie Hunter talks “Musical Mentors” with Scott Bernstein. You can hear all about Charlie's mentors and some of his work as well. Like all Osiris podcasts, you can stream the episode directly on the JamBase site that's linked here. #3—Brooklyn Comes Alive on March 21! Another live event we need to tell you about is Brooklyn Comes Alive, March 21. It'll be a day of collaborations and supergroups, including Oteil and Friends, Birds of a Feather (featuring members of Goose and Pigeons Playing Ping Pong), The Motet, Robert Randolph, and more. All at a really cool venue called the Avant Gardner in Brooklyn. #4—The Hot New Way to Promote Your Album: Make a Podcast About It. We wanted to share an article from our friend Cherie Hu, who writes for Billboard and does the Water & Music newsletter and podcast. She makes the case that the blending of the music and podcast worlds are creating more opportunities for artists, and for podcasters—and we're here for that! #5—Trampled by Turtles on Inside the Musician's Brain. Host Chris Pandolfi talks with Dave Simonett, the lead singer and primary songwriter for Trampled by Turtles. He and Chris discuss songwriting, music highlights, and more. And on this episode, we leave you with some live Stringdusters tunes, which are from Seattle, January 18, 2020. You can stream the whole show here. The Drop is brought to you by Osiris Media, hosted, produced and edited by RJ Bee. The Drop is brought to you by CashorTrade, and Osiris Media works in partnership with JamBase. Until next time… See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information.

Water & Music creator and music journalist Cherie Hu came on the Trapital Podcast to discuss why “fantasy football for music” hasn’t taken off. Her and I did a mutual newsletter takeover where we both researched the topic and wrote separate articles in each other’s newsletter. On this podcast, we recapped our findings, and shared key reasons why the concept is limited in its reach. We also had some fun and answered a popular meme on how we would spend our $15 if we’re drafting a record label. Listen: Apple Podcasts | Spotify | SoundCloud | Stitcher | YouTube | Overcast | RSS Host: Dan Runcie, @RuncieDan, trapital.coGuest: Cherie Hu, @cheriehu42, cheriehu.com Links So you want to be a music mogul: The future of fantasy record labels - Cherie Hu in Trapital Why “fantasy football for music” has struggled - Dan Runcie in Water & Music FanLabel -  your fantasy record label where you can compete in daily music contests with songs by big name artists and brand-new acts. Water & Music newsletter sign-up Hip-hop’s influence continues to grow. Learn how it impacts your business. Join the execs, CEOs, and moguls who read Trapital: trapital.co/welcome

With 2019 coming to an end, it feels like the right time to highlight a few of our audience's most listened to episodes and of the year, so we're doing a best of 2019 this week! We went through this year's stats, and isolated the top ten episodes of the year, and then culled the most informative and/or interesting interviews from that bunch. Listen in as we revisit our interviews with writer Cherie Hu, former Merlin CEO Charles Caldas, and Bayonet Records owner Katie Garcia.

Cherie Hu joins me to discuss key developments in music tech for 2019 + predictions for 2020. In this episode we talk about Community, Voice, AI and much more. --- This episode is sponsored by · Anchor: The easiest way to make a podcast. https://anchor.fm/app

What does the music tech landscape look like from the investor's point of view—and what are start-ups getting wrong? Listen to the Music Tech Investor Panel, recorded at the 2019 Music Tectonics Conference, to find out. Moderated by writer Cherie Hu (who has her own podcast/newsletter Water & Music), the panel brought together decisionmakers from across the emerging landscape of music tech investment: Rishi Patel (Plus Eight Equity), Zach Katz (Raised In Space Enterprises), Larry Marcus (Marcy Venture Partners and Walden Venture Capital), and Virginie Berger (DBTH Capital).  What mistakes should start-ups avoid, in their business plan and in their pitches? What roles are artists playing in investment and product development? How do investors make decisions about which companies to fund? Should start-ups stake their claim in saturated areas of music tech like streaming and VR, or strike out in unoccupied territory? Is it more important to demonstrate profitability or growth? What special challenges face Rights Tech founders? Get answers straight from the investors.The Music Tectonics podcast goes beneath the surface of the music industry to explore how technology is changing the way business gets done. Visit MusicTectonics.com to learn more, and find us on twitter, facebook, and Instagram. Let us know what you think!

For the past couple of months, we’ve been cooking up something big: the first iteration of our Global Music Industry Data Report, 6MO! With the help of music tech extraordinaire Cherie Hu, we give you the first taste of it here.... chartmetric.com @chartmetric #chartmetric #6MO #musicbusiness #musicindustry #musicnews #musictech

Insiders is a Music industry podcast in which we speak with the executives that shape the Music and Tech industries. Episode 7 - "Insiders" with Cherie Hu, freelance Music Tech journalist for Forbes, Music Business Worldwide, and creator of Water and Music. Highlights, links, and full transcript

In this episode your hosts Sam Hysell and Jordan Williams chop it up on topics that have been on their mind in the industry, strategies for emerging artists, and resources to stay up to date in the industry. In this episode we discuss... Scooter Braun buying Taylor Swift’s catalog of masters Contemplating the pros and cons of remaining independent vs going the label route The journey of finding your own voice, product, and audience How Lil Nas X hacked social to make Old Town Road a mega hit and more Tapping into collaborations, content, and moreResources mentioned: MusicBusinessWorldWide, Cherie Hu’s Water and Music Newsletter, Trapital NewsLetter, Hypebot As always never hesitate to leave a review or reach out to @musicbusinesspodcast Instagram with any feedback or ideas. Thank you for listening! See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information.

Recorded live from Pete’s Candy Store! Doug covers Willie Nelson & Jerry Paper and then debuts a song off his forthcoming second album; Jordan talks to journalist Cherie Hu about the usage and implications of artificial intelligence in the music industry; and GABI visits us from Yale to grace us with her beautiful voice and experiments with some improvising. Check out Cherie Hu online (website / Twitter) and GABI too! (Bandcamp / Twitter / Instagram) timestamps 0:00 "Theme from Special Delivery" by Dougie Poole 1:42 “(How Will I Know) I’m Falling in Love Again” by Willie Nelson (COVER) 4:27 “Reprogram Ourselves” by Jerry Paper (COVER) 8:10 “Natural Blues” by Dougie Poole (NEW SONG) 11:56 Doug and Jordan talk about capitalism getting in the way of Love 14:09 conversation between Jordan and Cherie Hu 36:38 “Where” by GABI 39:33 “Koo Koo” by GABI 42:36 “Let’s Not Exist” by GABI 45:02 “Da Void” by GABI 49:45 “Until the End” by GABI 53:15 “All Summer” by GABI (NEW SONG) Dougie Poole's Special Delivery is taped in front of a live audience on the 3rd Tuesday of the month at Pete's Candy Store in Brooklyn, and then released via podcast the following Tuesday. Subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you listen to podcasts.

In this episode, we sit down with Cherie Hu an experienced music industry analytics, freelance writer, and owner of the independent media ecosystem Water & Music. Cherie’s expertise in the music industry lies at the intersection of music and tech, of which she provides her insight and updates on via her newsletter and podcast. Outside of her own media properties, she’s been freelanced to write for publications including, Billboard, Forbes, Music Business Worldwide, Rolling Stone, and many more. In this episode we discuss… How VR & AR are and will continue to have an impact in the music industryWhat start-ups have caught her attention in the music tech space. What are the similarities she’s noticed between startups/startup ecosystem and the music industry/musicians.What she feels are some of the most underrated technologies or apps for music industry professionals and musicians?The impact of the democratization of creativity in the music industry. As always never hesitate to leave a review or reach out to @musicbusinesspodcast Instagram with any feedback or ideas. Thank you for listening! Check out Cheries podcast here: https://waterandmusic.transistor.fm/And her newsletter her: https://mailchi.mp/9ab07d2b7dc4/waterandmusic See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information.

This podcast is a recording of a lecture given by award-winning freelance journalist Cherie Hu at the University of Oregon School of Journalism and Communication. View the presentation from this lecture here: https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1-aK48YAvdyxzM0ktj1FXgrLKyyP9VlRSOk-YrY4K_60/edit?usp=sharing Hu writes regular columns for Billboard, Forbes and Music Business Worldwide, with additional bylines in Variety, Pitchfork, Rolling Stone and the Columbia Journalism Review. She has spoken at over 25 conferences to date, including but not limited to SXSW, Midem, Music Biz and the Web Summit, and appears regularly as an expert commentator for the likes of CNBC and CGTN America. In 2017, at age 21, she received the Reeperbahn Festival’s inaugural award for Music Business Journalist of the Year. Previously, she spearheaded a research project on digital music innovation at Harvard Business School, and interned across product marketing, data analysis and artist development functions at music companies including Ticketmaster and Interscope Records. Read more about her visit to the University of Oregon here: https://demystifying.uoregon.edu/2019/01/28/demystifying-the-music-business-as-a-petri-dish-for-journalism-innovation/ Listen to Cherie's in-depth podcast interview here: https://soundcloud.com/demystifying-media/24-cherie-hu Watch Cherie's Q&A with journalism students here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TdT7rJ5oMIs&list=PLoqXTlv_f5zGu5TJeuL1SMBVCXlM4ViyL&index=19&t=19s Find Cherie online: Twitter: @cheriehu42 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/cheriehu/

Cherie Hu is award-winning freelance writer, editor and podcaster obsessed with how technology transforms music and culture. She writes regular columns for Billboard, Forbes and Music Business Worldwide, with additional bylines in Variety, Pitchfork and Rolling Stone. Cherie also hosts the interview podcast Water & Music, which unpacks big ideas and debates at the intersection of music and tech. In this episode Cherie shares her story in her own words, touches on current developments with AI in music, and discusses her involvement with the Music Biz Conference. This episode was recorded in Nashville, Tenessee at i65music. --- This episode is sponsored by · Anchor: The easiest way to make a podcast. https://anchor.fm/app

Cherie Hu returns to Music Tectonics to delve into the week's news!  Cherie digs deeper into why Hip Hop doesn't dominate YouTube's top premieres (a story from her Water + Music newsletter). What does Peloton's licensing problem mean for how the fitness industry uses music? What does Snapchat hope to gain from gaming? Is sacred music the original AR technology? Cherie chats about it all (and much more) with host Dmitri Vietze and resident music tech expert Tristra Newyear Yeager. The Music Tectonics podcast goes beneath the surface of the music industry to explore how technology is changing the way business gets done. The podcast includes news roundups, interviews, and more.

This week, Ryan is joined by longtime friend-of-the-podcast Bree Noble of Female Entrepreneur Musician. From April 22nd to May 1, Bree will be hosting the Profitable Musician Summit, an online music industry conference geared toward helping musicians manage their careers and increase their income. Guest speakers include past Podcast guests Ariel Hyatt, Ari Herstand, Kevin Breuner, Cheryl B. Engelhardt, Cherie Hu, Suzanne Paulinski, and many more…including your BTB host Ryan Kairalla. Ryan talks to Bree about the Summit but also gets some insight from her on the importance for indie artists to not have "too many" ideas in their music career. This might seem counterintuitive, but it's not! And you should tune in to find out why and get some great advice along the way. Bree is awesome, and she has a lot of great tips for you. Rate/review/subscribe to the Break the Business Podcast on iTunes, SoundCloud, Stitcher, and Google Play. Follow Ryan @ryankair and the Break the Business Podcast @thebtbpodcast. Like Break the Business on Facebook and tell a friend about the show. Visit www.ryankairalla.com to find out more about Ryan's entertainment, education, and business projects. Register for the Profitable Musician Summit by visiting this link: bit.ly/2WPwDlJ.

In this episode of the Demystifying Podcast, University of Oregon journalism professor and host Damian Radcliffe interviews Cherie Hu, an award-winning freelance journalist whose work focuses on the intersection of music, media and technology. In addition to her conference speaking engagements and regular appearances as an expert commentator on CNBC and CGTN America, Hu's bylines can be seen in publications such as Billboard, Forbes, Variety, the Columbia Journalism Review--and many more. Listen to Cherie's lecture on the music journalism business here: https://soundcloud.com/demystifying-media/31-cherie-hu Watch Cherie's Q&A with journalism students here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TdT7rJ5oMIs&list=PLoqXTlv_f5zGu5TJeuL1SMBVCXlM4ViyL&index=19&t=19s Find Cherie online: Twitter: @cheriehu42 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/cheriehu/ Below are the show notes from this episode: 02:45 - How did you "fall into" journalism? 06:08 - Parallels between the state of journalism today and the music industry over the past decade 11:08 - What can the journalism industry learn from the music sector? 15:00 - Music artists as industry commentators / sources 20:15 - Similarities between independent artists and freelance journalists 23:33 - Innovations which may change the music industry in the next few years 27:33 - What's next for you? Read the transcript for this episode: https://www.scribd.com/document/463625586/Demystifying-Media-24-How-the-music-business-is-a-petri-dish-for-journalism-innovation-with-Cherie-Hu

Episode #147: From AI to to the EP, we discuss trends and innovation in the music industry. First, journalist Cherie Hu shares a few music tech developments to look out for in 2019. Then, Jon Chattman explains his recent article "How the EP Killed the LP Star." Finally, Eric "Skippy" Mueller of Pirate's Press updates us on what's happening in vinyl. Produced by Will Watts and Anna McClain. Engineered by Brent Asbury at Beta Petrol.

http://cheriehu.com Cherie Hu, an award-winning music business journalist, was on track to be a classical pianist through Juilliard’s pre-college program when a teacher suggested an alternative program of dual studies. That brought Cherie to Harvard, majoring in math and stats, while writing for the university arts blog and an arts column for the Harvard Crimson … Continue reading "Ep. 51: Writing about Music, Tech, Algorithms and More with Cherie Hu"

Cherie Hu (Variety, Billboard) joined the ANA boy this week to talk music business journalism, escaping the algorithm for music discovery, and music festival culture! Mic and Fumi also reveal their top played songs of 2018 - what you’ll find will bring you to tears. Check out Cherie at www.cheriehu.com and follow her on Twitter @cheriehu42We finally launched a PATREON page! Please support us in exchange for some fun rewards from Fumi & Mic.https://www.patreon.com/asiannotasianpodEmail us: AsianNotAsianPod@gmail.comInstagram: @asiannotasianpodTwitter/Instagram Fumi: @TheFumiAbeInstagram Mic: @nicepantsbroS/O to our network @listeningpartypresents @canalstreetmarket - check out the crew on Instagram

Join Billboard and Forbes writer Cherie Hu, as she speaks with Music Tectonics host Dmitri Vietze of rock paper scissors PR, to discuss where she sees the music technology field going in 2019. Cherie explores how music is merging more and more with other creative industries including e-sports, film and TV, social media filters, and live streaming. Whereas many hoped concerts would succeed as live streams, Cherie points out that live-stream-only content is engaging audiences with the opportunity to connect with artists and other fans in chat forums and more. Cherie also breaks down what she thinks will and won't work for music in virtual reality. And she takes a position on what record labels should be doing with A.I. music composition. She also puts a spotlight on expected growth of streaming in what Spotify calls "rest of world," Africa, Asia, and Australia, now that Mark Mulligan says that U.S. and U.K. streaming growth is slowing down. 

Cherie Hu has grabbed a front-row seat to tech and music change. Forbes grabbed her after graduation from Harvard, bringing her interests in music and tech to their own digital pages. She also brings that magic to both Billboard, Variety, Pitchfork, and Music Business Worldwide, among other publications. She shares how she tracks both the news and how people react to the news into her own analysis of music change. Her own sandbox, Music and Water, is how she gathers many of the pieces of her reporting into one place to share. She talked with Gigi Johnson about new work in music and AI, her favorite conferences, her travel as a reporter, and her exploration of how music is merging with other industries. She shared thoughts on holograms in music and influencers as a merging of Artificial Intelligence and CGI, plus new ways to personalize sound with biometrics with adaptive music solutions. After Gigi asked her if there is a book in the works, she talked about her own interest in the intersection of music and startup culture. Guest: Cherie Hu, Forbes, Billboard, Pitchfork, Music Business Worldwide Cherie Hu is an entrepreneurial journalist passionate about documenting and propelling innovation in music, media and entertainment. In September 2017, she received the Reeperbahn Festival's inaugural award for Music Business Journalist of the Year. She focuses on reporting and analysis on music and tech for publications including Billboard, Forbes, Music Business Worldwide, Variety and Pitchfork, as well as blogging on artist strategy for Stem, Songtrust, Medium​ and others. She is working on research on media business models with NYU Journalism's Membership Puzzle Project.  In addition to Midem, she has spoken at international conferences including SXSW, Sónar+D, Tokyo Dance Music Event, Sørveiv, FastForward, Hacking Arts and SF MusicTech. Previously, Hu spearheaded a research project on digital music business models at Harvard Business School, and interned in product marketing at Ticketmaster and in A&R at Interscope Records. She majored in Statistics at Harvard University with a minor in Music and certificate in French, and strives to weave her myriad passions for quantitative research, the performing arts, tech innovation and international cultures into her work. Newsletter: Water & Music Medium: https://medium.com/@cheriehu42 Forbes: https://www.forbes.com/sites/cheriehu Twitter: @cheriehu42 Website: https://www.cheriehu.com/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/cheriehu/ 

The conversation with Harman CEO Dinesh Paliwal begins at 27:58.  Free speech is getting exhausting. It’s a game of online publishing whack-a-mole as wingnut Alex Jones, of Infowars fame, finally gets suspended from Twitter, only to direct his audience to Tumblr. How should those of us who still love America feel about the amount of crazy that’s going on in the media game these days?  MoviePass is testing its business model … on Solo. Borrowing a page from Darth Vader’s Cloud City book of negotiating tactics, movie theater subscription company MoviePass is altering the terms of your deal – pray they don’t alter it further.   And skinny bundles are the new skinny jeans. In further evidence of a trend I like to call “The Great Rebundling,” digital distributors and content companies are hooking up faster than you can say, “Ban Alex Jones.” The latest to swipe right on each other: Verizon doing a deal for free Apple Music and Samsung doing a deal to pre-load Spotify on all its devices.   Last but not least, for the Fortt Knox one-on-one this week I’ve got Dinesh Paliwal, CEO of Harman International, the high-end audio company Samsung bought for 8 billion dollars last year. He’s talking straight about the future of music formats and the right way to play business hardball with China.   Welcome to Fortt Knox, rich ideas and powerful people. I am Jon Fortt at the Nasdaq Marketsite in New York’s Times Square.   Joining me on the show today to break down the headlines: I’ve got Ed Lee of the New York Times. Dan McComas, former senior vice president of product at Reddit. And joining me a bit later, Brent Lang, the senior film editor at Variety; and Cherie Hu, columnist at Billboard. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This week, Ryan talks about entertainment lawyer Erin M. Jacobson's recent article in Forbes about the Twitch and its effect on musicians. Twitch is a platform that has benefited many indie artists by helping them build their fan base through live streaming. But Jacobson argues that the platform could be harming musicians as well. Ryan discusses the article and also gets an opposing view of sorts on the subject from music industry journalist Cherie Hu of Forbes and Billboard. Cherie also talks to Ryan about Spotify, United Masters, and more! Rate/review/subscribe to the Podcast on iTunes, SoundCloud, Stitcher, and Google Play. Follow Ryan @ryankair and the Podcast @thebtbpodcast. Like Break the Business on Facebook and tell a friend about the show! And visit www.breakthebusiness.com to get a copy of Ryan’s Book “Break the Business: Declaring Your Independence and Achieving True Success in the Music Industry.”

Cherie Hu is a music tech columnist for Billboard and Forbes, who also contributes to publications like Music Ally, Cuepoint, Inside Arts and the Harvard Political Review. A musician passionate about technology, Cherie has written numerous impactful pieces about technology in the music industry. Her work was acknowledged at the Reeperbahn Festival last year, where she got the Music Business Journalist of the Year award. On this Music Growth Talks episode, Cherie comments on her Forbes article about the rapidly growing label and management company 88Rising, and explains how you can apply the tech adoption life cycle to your music career, something she describes in detail in her Medium post called "The Artist as Technology, Part 1: Breaking The Adoption Cycle". Listen to this episode to also hear why you can't really "break" overnight (neither can't you fake a meme), and learn about the challenges musicians face in the Asian markets. ⏯ Go to http://dottedmusic.com/2018/podcast/mgt107-cherie-hu/ for the show notes and http://musicgrowthtalks.com to subscribe to the podcast. Become a patron to access a secret podcast feed with patron-only episodes at http://musicianswebkeeper.com/

Funny as Tech chats with Billboard's Cherie Hu about the ins, outs, and absurdities of using holograms for future live concerts. Along the way we discuss the Beatles, Nirvana, Ferris Bueller, Milli Vanilli, Maria Callas, and whether Funny as Tech should be replaced by holograms. Cherie Hu is an award-winning, entrepreneurial music writer and analyst, focusing on tech trends and emerging markets. She currently serves as a tech columnist for Billboard and a music contributor for Forbes, with additional bylines in the Harvard Political Review, Music Ally and the Juilliard Journal. At age 21, she received the Reeperbahn Festival's inaugural award for Music Business Journalist of the Year. She speaks at several conferences around the world; this year, you can hear her at SXSW, Music Biz, IMS Ibiza, Primavera Sound and Midem. Previously, Cherie spearheaded a research project on emerging music business models at Harvard Business School, and interned in product marketing at Ticketmaster and in A&R at Interscope Records. Her weekly email newsletter Water & Music reaches nearly 800 creative professionals and influencers, including executives at Spotify, Apple, Facebook and all three major record labels. CHERIE HU Twitter: https://twitter.com/cheriehu42 https://www.cheriehu.org/ This episode was recorded at Grand Central Tech. For more info visit their website at: www.grandcentraltech.com Twitter: https://twitter.com/GCTech Funny as Tech is a monthly live panel show and weekly podcast that tackles the thorniest issues in tech! Live shows are performed at the Peoples Improv Theater in Manhattan and podcast interviews at Grand Central Tech. Funny as Tech also performs on the road with conferences and special events. Have a question? Info@FunnyAsTech.com FUNNY AS TECH FunnyAsTech.com Twitter: https://twitter.com/FunnyAsTech https://www.instagram.com/FunnyAsTech/ https://twitter.com/TechEthicist Instagram: https://twitter.com/ImJoeLeonardo Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/FunnyAsTech/ Soundcloud: https://soundcloud.com/user-328735920 Signup to our monthly mailing list: http://eepurl.com/dgokyz NEW EPISODES EVERY MONDAY

Single: Cherie Hu is a music-tech journalist who has written for publications like Billboard and Forbes. We talk to her about her recent article in Forbes on the push to get playlist curators paid: https://www.forbes.com/sites/cheriehu/2017/05/08/inside-the-ongoing-quest-to-get-music-curators-paid/ Subscribe to The Future of What: hyperurl.co/krsfow Follow us: Twitter: http://bit.ly/2gOYMYM Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thefutureofwhat/ Instagram: http://bit.ly/1L6T8fl

Episode #109: Playlists have been a huge driver in the growth of streaming music, and platforms like Spotify are pushing their curated playlists more than ever. Securing a coveted placement on one of the top playlists could mean millions of streams and new fans for an artist. These playlists drive discovery, chart performance, and sales, and the tastemakers creating them aren't just kids compiling their favorite songs. From brands to professional curators, many are taking advantage of this new marketing opportunity. But could curation become a viable revenue stream? And how do artists get their music to these mysterious influencers? On this episode we hear from Garrison Snell, who built his company, Crosshair, around getting curators compensated. We're also joined by journalist Cherie Hu, who has written about music curation models for Forbes. Walt Lilly, the curator behind the Apollo Playlist brand gives us an idea of what goes into a successful playlist. If you want to hear more about playlisting, check out our recent interview with Liz Pelly. Get 15% off at rockabilia.com with code PCFUTUREOFWHAT Subscribe to The Future of What on iTunes: http://apple.co/1P4Apk0 Follow us: Twitter: http://bit.ly/2gOYMYM Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thefutureofwhat/ Instagram: http://bit.ly/1L6T8fl

Hi Podcast listeners! Thanks for downloading. Be sure to get a copy of the Break the Business audiobook, now available on Amazon, Audible, and iTunes! This week, Ryan talks about the Harvey Weinstein scandal and why it is a symptom of a greater problem with the entertainment industry as a whole--a problem to which the music business is definitely not immune. Ryan references past Podcast guests Rorie Kelly and Krista Hartman to discuss the problem and steps that can be taken to make things better for women. To drill down into this issue further, Ryan sits down with music journalist Cherie Hu (Forbes, Billboard). Cherie recently wrote an article entitled "Unbalancing Act, How Conferences Perpetuate the Music Industry’s Gender Parity Crisis." Ryan talks to Cherie about her article and also gets her insight on the future of the music industry. Be sure to check out Cherie's website at www.cheriehu.org, follow her on Twitter @cheriehu42, and subscribe to her weekly newsletter at https://www.getrevue.co/profile/cheriehu42. Rate/review/subscribe to the Podcast on iTunes, SoundCloud, Stitcher, and Google Play. Like Break the Business on Facebook and tell a friend about the show! And visit www.breakthebusiness.com to get a copy of Ryan’s Book “Break the Business: Declaring Your Independence and Achieving True Success in the Music Industry.”