Podcast appearances and mentions of Robert Kegan

(0:00) Intro to this episode (2:52) About the podcast sponsor: The American College of Governance Counsel (3:39) Start of interview (4:18) Keith Giarman's origin story. About DHR Global (9:33) Tony Abate's origin story. Current boards: Wolfspeed, GTT Communications, Mitel, and Tacora Resources. (23:52) Turnaround Board Playbook. Three phases: 1) Fix the balance sheet; 2) Turnaround strategy, and time to turn to the income statement; and 3) Exit the business. (28:50) Private Equity Board Structure. It is all contextual. (33:40) Compensation in PE boards. (31:15) What Makes Boards Effective, from Tony based on his chairmanship experience. Execution vs process. *Execution: 1) Skill Set Distribution ("Three is too few, five too many."), 2) Relevance of that skill set distribution to the situation at hand, and 3) Willingness to engage with the management team between board meetings ("the most important" goes to board culture). (38:34) Building the Board Agenda, from Tony: Tight agenda in three buckets: 1) Decisions needed now, 2) input without a decision, and 3) FYI. Most boards get stuck on FYI and never reach the real decisions. Then 40 to 50% of the deck should be standardized financial and operational KPIs (flag only what's changing), one rotating deep dive, and executive sessions with and without the CEO. (42:53) LLCs and Governance Dynamics in PE. (45:52) AI and Board Talent Demand. "Matrix management" (50:36) Underestimated Governance Risks. From Keith: for board members: "Are they aligned? Are they courageous? And are they adaptive?" From Tony: "The board should talk about the what, not the how." Difference between supervising and execution. Caveat: some PE firms are very prescriptive. (56:23) Founder-Led or Board-Led companies. (1:00:16) What are the 1-3 books that have greatly influenced your life:  Tony:  Titan by Ron Chernow (1998) Theodore Rex by Edmund Morris (volume 2 of the trilogy) (2001) The Demon of Unrest by Erik Larson (2004) Keith: Mornings on Horseback, by David McCullough (1981) The Outsiders, by William N. Thorndike Jr. (2012) The Evolving Self, by Robert Kegan (1982)  (1:05:00) Who were their mentors, and what they learned from them. (1:09:07) Quotes they think of often or live their life by. Tony: The Man in the Ring by Teddy Roosevelt. Rudyard Kipling poem If. Keith: "Everybody has a plan until they get hit in the face" (1:11:17) An unusual habit or an absurd thing that they love. (1:12:21) The living person they most admire. Keith Giarman is a Managing Partner of the Private Equity Practice at DHR Global, and Tony Abate is an experienced board chair, director, investor, and operating executive. You can follow Evan on social media at:X: @evanepsteinLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/epsteinevan/ Substack: https://evanepstein.substack.com/__To support this podcast you can join as a subscriber of the Boardroom Governance Newsletter at https://evanepstein.substack.com/__Music/Soundtrack (found via Free Music Archive): Seeing The Future by Dexter Britain is licensed under a Attribution-Noncommercial-Share Alike 3.0 United States License

I detta avsnitt pratar Hillesgårdsakademins Monika och Fredrik med professor Henrik Bresman från INSEAD. Samtalet handlar om högpresterande grupper, och om vad Henrik genom sin forskning har förstått om grupper som både presterar och mår bra. Henrik är svensk, men bor och verkar sedan många år i Singapore, och han har forskat kring högpresterande grupper tillsammans med kollegor som Deborah Ancona och Amy Edmondsson. Tillsammans med Deborah har han skrivit boken X-teams, och kärnan i den boken handlar om att det idag inte räcker för grupper att vara synkade kring gemensamma mål och ha bra relationer inom det egna teamet. Det är viktigt, säger Henrik, men med vår tids höga osäkerhet och snabba förändringstakt behöver man gå ut innan man går in. Han kallar de team som gör så för X-teams. Man behöver alltså förstå de intressenter man är ömsesidigt beroende av, innan man samlar sig internt för att sätta mål och staka ut vägen. Ytterligare facetter på Henriks forskning är mångfald och psykologisk trygghet. För när man är externt fokuserad som team – alltså ett X-team – behöver man hantera en mångfald av perspektiv, vilket potentiellt skapar friktion i gruppen. Och det är genom att orka vara kvar i den friktionen som gruppen kan bli verkligt högpresterande. En förutsättning för detta är dock att det finns psykologisk trygghet i gruppen, så att gruppens medlemmar verkligen vågar föra fram alla olikheter och vinklar på en specifik fråga eller område. I samtalet hänvisas till flera olika teorier och till forskarkollegor till Henrik. Vi har därför lagt in referenser och länkar till sådant vi tar upp i samtalet. Vill du fördjupa din inom den forskning som nämns i avsnittet rekommenderar vi följande artiklar och böcker: • Research: To Excel, Diverse Teams Need Psychological Safety, by Henrik Bresman and Amy Edmonson , 2022 https://www.hbs.edu/ris/Publication%20Files/Psychological%20Safety%20in%20Diverse%20Teams_V3_8d2783c5-113b-4184-95b9-d180f63452f7.pdf • X-teams: how to build teams that lead, innovate, and succeed. Deborah Ancona and Henrik Bresman. Harvard Business School Press, 2007. • Choosing Courage: The Everyday Guide to Being Brave at Work. Jim Detert. Harvard Business Review Press, 2021 https://jimdetert.com/insights-jim/practice-courage • An Everyone Culture: Becoming a Deliberately Developmental Organization. Robert Kegan & Lisa Laskow Lahey. Harvard Business Review Press, 2016 • Immunity to Change: How to overcome it and unlock the potential in yourself and your organization. Robert Kegan & Lisa Laskow Lahey. Harvard Business Review Press, 2009 • Teaming: How organizations learn, innovate, and compete in the knowledge economy. Amy C. Edmondson. Pfeiffer Wiley, 2012.

Trying harder often makes change impossible. This book summary reveals the hidden psychological 'immunity' that sabotages our best intentions.

In this episode of Acta Non Verba, host Marcus Aurelius Anderson sits down with JC Glick, retired Army Lieutenant Colonel and CEO of the Commit Foundation, for a deep conversation about leadership, transformation, and the power of questioning our assumptions. They explore how multiple truths can exist simultaneously, the dangers of concrete thinking in a complex world, and why being willing to be wrong takes more courage than being right. The discussion moves from philosophy and cognitive bias to veteran transition, AI as a thought partner, and the critical difference between transition and transformation. Episode Highlights [3:33] The Philosophy Tree: JC proposes creating a "philosophy tree" tracing Tony Blauer's influence on modern warrior-philosophers and discusses why Tony deserves recognition as a philosopher, not just a self-defense expert. [6:49] Multiple Truths Exist: JC challenges the idea that you must stand firmly on everything, arguing that multiple truths can exist simultaneously and that your truth doesn't make someone else's false. [34:49] Transition vs. Transformation: JC explains the critical difference: "Transitions happen to you. Transformation is a deliberate process with a desired outcome." He uses the powerful metaphor of turning a can into a Tesla. [46:00] AI as Hybrid Intelligence: The conversation shifts to AI's potential as an equity builder and thought partner rather than an answer machine, with JC advocating for "hybrid intelligence" that superpowers human thinking. JC Glick is a retired Army Lieutenant Colonel with 11 combat tours in the 75th Ranger Regiment and Asymmetrical Warfare Group. As CEO of the Commit Foundation, he leads a transformational organization helping special operations veterans, their spouses, intelligence community members, and allied forces reconstruct their identity and purpose beyond military service. JC is the author of Meditations of an Army Ranger and A Light in the Darkness, and contributes regularly to Forbes on topics of resilience, innovation, and purposeful human connection. His work is grounded in evidence-based adult development theory and focuses on helping individuals transform rather than simply transition. Learn more about the gift of Adversity and my mission to help my fellow humans create a better world by heading to www.marcusaureliusanderson.com. There you can take action by joining my ANV inner circle to get exclusive content and information.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Are you ready to break free from the limits of your own thinking? In a faster, more complex world, evolving your inner capacity is no longer optional—it's essential for leadership and fulfillment. In this conversation with Deborah Helsing, EdD, a Harvard expert in adult development, we explore the science of personal transformation through Robert Kegan's The Evolving Self. Helsing breaks down the five stages of mental maturity, the difference between skill-building and true transformational growth, and the concept of Immunity to Change—the hidden commitments that keep us stuck. This episode offers a practical roadmap for building mental maturity and meeting the challenges of the 21st century. If you want to lead through complexity and unlock your full potential, this is essential listening.Love the show? Subscribe, rate, review & share! https://anne-pratt.com

Happy Christmas and Merry Festivus y'all! Today we're releasing a patreon episode, as both of us are away on vacation with the family for the holidays. In this episode we have a meandering discussion about parenting, Robert Kegan's four stages of development, the limits of introspection, and relationship counseling. We discuss Advice for new fathers Vaden comes out to the world (about snowboarding) Robert Kegan's four stages of development The limits of introspection Countertransference The show Couples Therapy with Dr. Orna Guralnik # Socials Follow us on Twitter at @IncrementsPod, @BennyChugg, @VadenMasrani Come join our discord server! DM us on twitter or send us an email to get a supersecret link Become a patreon subscriber here (https://www.patreon.com/Increments). Or give us one-time cash donations to help cover our lack of cash donations here (https://ko-fi.com/increments). Click dem like buttons on youtube (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC_4wZzQyoW4s4ZuE4FY9DQQ) Introspect a little, and tell us why you haven't signed up to our Patreon feed over at incrementspodcast@gmail.com

What if the key to more impactful leadership isn't learning more but seeing differently? Dr Alison Maitland and Liz Walker explore how vertical development reshapes perspective, unlocks authenticity and helps leaders move beyond long-held labels. They share how expanding awareness leads to greater fulfilment, deeper connection and meaningful change at work and in life. Through honest reflections and practical insight, Alison and Liz show why embracing who you truly are is the foundation for leading with clarity and confidence. This is an invitation to step into your fullest potential to lead unapologetically.   KEY TAKEAWAY 'It's our mission: to lead unapologetically. To live and lead unapologetically, to be oneself, unapologetic and true in a more expansive way.'   BOOK RECOMMENDATIONS* Specific book titles weren't mentioned but the key thinkers whose work underpin Alison and Liz's discussion on vertical development include Robert Kegan, Ken Wilber, David Rooke and William Torbert. Immunity to Change by Robert Kegan - https://amzn.eu/d/0V9B0AF  A Theory of Everything by Ken Wilber - https://amzn.eu/d/bhB3Lji     ABOUT THE GUESTS – DR ALISON MAITLAND AND LIZ WALKER Dr Alison Maitland and Liz Walker run a business called Becoming, and they are on a mission to equip people to lead, unapologetically.  Dr Alison Maitland is a psychologist and coach. Her eclectic history includes working as an HR Director in blue-chip multinational companies, researching women's experiences in performance sport and creating impactful leadership development solutions for corporates and individual and team sport psychology solutions for sports clients.  Her recent book, Drop the Struggle, explains her approach to applying ACT in sport. Liz Walker is a learning professional, facilitator and coach. Her career trajectory covers 20+ years in learning & development teams in professional service organisations.  During this time she designed, developed, delivered and evaluated training programmes around the globe, with a focus on leadership development.    CONNECT WITH ALISON AND LIZ https://www.linkedin.com/company/becoming-international/ https://becoming.international/   ABOUT THE HOST - AMY ROWLINSON Amy is a purpose and fulfilment coach, author, podcast strategist and mastermind host who empowers purpose-driven leaders to boost productivity, engagement and meaning in life and work. Through transformational conversations, Amy helps individuals overcome overwhelm and live with clarity, building living legacies along the way.   WORK WITH AMY If you're interested in how purpose can help you and your business, please book a free 30 min call via https://calendly.com/amyrowlinson/call    KEEP IN TOUCH WITH AMY Sign up for the weekly Friday Focus - https://www.amyrowlinson.com/subscribe-to-weekly-newsletter    CONNECT WITH AMY https://linktr.ee/AmyRowlinson    BUY AMY'S BOOK (Shortlisted in the 2025 Business Book Awards) * Focus on Why by Amy Rowlinson with George F. Kerr – https://amzn.eu/d/6W02HWu    HOSTED BY AMY ROWLINSON   DISCLAIMER The views, thoughts and opinions expressed in this podcast belong solely to the host and guest speakers. Please conduct your own due diligence.  *As an Amazon Associate, Amy earns from qualifying purchases.  

Pour devenir Ambassadeur du bonheur et m'aider à propulser le lancement de mon nouveau livre sur Amazon. Inscrivez-vous !Changer n'est pas une affaire de volonté, c'est surtout une histoire de compréhension. Entre résistance du cerveau, croyances limitantes et peur de l'inconnu, le vrai changement demande du temps, de la douceur et de la lucidité. Inspiré par James Clear et Robert Kegan, cet épisode explore comment passer du vœu pieux à la transformation réelle, pas à pas, avec bienveillance.**********Retrouvez le texte de l'épisode sur notre blog.En vous abonnant sur Itunes pour recevoir les notifications et en nous laissant un avis, vous nous envoyez des bulles de bonheur !En suivant notre actu sur FB @2minutesdebonheur et sur insta @2minutesdebonheur, vous profiterez gratuitement de pleins de trucs, d'astuces et de mises en pratique liés au podcast de la semaine.Inscrivez-vous à la newsletter, vous serez ainsi notifié de nos nouveaux épisodes et vous recevrez un bon de réduction de 5% sur notre site.Et surtout, partagez nos épisodes à tous ceux qui veulent prendre le temps d'être heureux !Hébergé par Audiomeans. Visitez audiomeans.fr/politique-de-confidentialite pour plus d'informations.

Season 2 of On the Balcony begins by looking sideways — exploring the frameworks that stretch Adaptive Leadership into new terrain.In this first episode, Michael Koehler sits down with Dr. Lisa Lahey, co-author of Immunity to Change, faculty at the Harvard University Graduate School of Education and co-founder of Minds at Work. Lisa's work on adult development has profoundly shaped how we understand leadership — not as a set of skills to acquire, but as an internal capacity to grow.The conversation explores a question many of us wrestle with: Why do we resist the very changes we say we want?Lisa's answer: competing commitments and big assumptions. We're not just resisting change. We're protecting something we care deeply about — even when we don't realize it.This episode gets personal. Lisa coaches Michael through his own immunity to change around pushing his colleagues to use more AI. What emerges is a powerful demonstration of how our internal "immune system" keeps us safe — and stuck.What You'll Explore in This Episode:The shift from socialized to self-authoring mindHow we move from looking outside ourselves for approval to authoring our own values and commitments — and why this developmental shift matters for leadership.The Immunity to Change frameworkA practical, four-column exercise that uncovers the hidden commitments and big assumptions creating resistance to change.A live coaching sessionLisa walks Michael through the process in real time, revealing how deeply protective mechanisms work — and how to begin testing the assumptions that hold us back.How adult development and Adaptive Leadership are relatedBoth frameworks help us face complexity, hold competing commitments, and grow through challenge rather than around it.The influence of Chris ArgyrisHow Argyris's work on organizational learning shaped both Lisa's thinking and the broader field of developmental leadership.The power of the pauseA reflection on pausing not as a luxury, but as an act of deep responsibility to ourselves and the world.Quotes from This Episode:"You can grow your capacity to experience the world in different ways. And that difference keeps enabling you to hold greater complexity, take more perspectives, and handle greater ambiguity."— Dr. Lisa Lahey"There is a next place in development where you no longer are subject to meeting everybody's expectations of you. Instead, you get to be the author of your own expectations — grounded in your own sense of who you are and what you value."— Dr. Lisa Lahey"You have an aspiration to grow. You want to develop some capacity. And yet at the very same time, unbeknownst to you, you've got a whole inner curriculum actively working to protect yourself."— Dr. Lisa Lahey"The immunity to change process invites us to consider: we don't just have worries. We actually have a part of us actively committed to making sure those worries don't come true."— Dr. Lisa Lahey"It is not a luxury to pause. It is an act of deep responsibility to ourselves and the world."— Tara Brach (shared by Dr. Lisa Lahey)Links & Resources:Immunity to Change by Robert Kegan and Lisa Laskow Laheyhttps://www.amazon.com/Immunity-Change-Overcome-Unlock-Organization/dp/1422117367Minds at Work

What does the future of coaching look like… and what can we learn from those who helped build it?Ruth Rochelle returns to The Coach's Journey Podcast to reflect on how the coaching world has evolved over the past four decades and where it might be heading next.Prompted by a listener's question, Ruth shares stories from the early days of coaching - when it was more movement than industry - through the professionalisation of the 1990s to today's fast-changing, tech-enabled landscape. Alongside the history, she offers her vision for what's emerging now: deeper work, greater humanity, and a renewed sense of trust.Ruth and Joey explore how coaching has shifted from performance to presence, from achievement to wholeness, and from certainty to curiosity. They discuss scepticism in the early days (and now), the rise of coaching bodies such as the ICF and EMCC, the impact of technology and AI, and why compassion and simplicity remain at the heart of great coaching.In this episode, Ruth talks about:Why the earliest coaching approaches focused on the inner game and self-beliefHow the field grew from informal practice to global professionThe evolution from performance and achievement to whole-person coachingWhy trust, compassion, and presence still matter most for coaches todayRuth also invites every coach to listen inwardly and lead the way forward for the profession. If you've ever wondered how the coaching profession began - or where it's going next - this conversation offers wisdom, warmth, and hope for coaches building meaningful, sustainable practices in a fast-changing world.For more information about Ruth, visit https://www.ruthrochelle.com/For more information about host Joey Owen, visit http://www.joeyowencoaching.com/Read more about The Coach's Journey at www.thecoachsjourney.com.Music by My Good Man William: listen on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/artist/4KmeQUcTbeE31uFynHQLQgTo support the Coach's Journey, visit www.patreon.com/thecoachsjourney and to join the Coach's Journey Community visit www.thecoachsjourney.com/community. THINGS WE TALKED ABOUT THAT YOU MIGHT BE INTERESTED IN:FREE Ebook: An Introduction to The Coaching Business Flywheel: https://www.thecoachsjourney.com/thecoachingbusinessflywheel Ruth Rochelle on The Coach's Journey Podcast (previous episode) https://www.thecoachsjourney.com/podcast/78-ruth-rochelle-insight-seminars-systems-theory-and-the-path-to-our-current-truth International Coaching Federation (ICF) https://coachingfederation.org/European Mentoring and Coaching Council (EMCC) https://www.emccglobal.org/ Tim Gallwey – The Inner Game of Tennis https://www.amazon.co.uk/Inner-Game-Tennis-Classic-Performance/dp/1447288505 Robert Kegan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Kegan Suzanne Cook-Greuter https://www.linkedin.com/in/susanne-cook-greuter-60056322b/ Bill Torbert https://gla.global/team_member/professor-bill-torbert/ For more on Adult Development on The Coach's Journey, see our interview with Jennifer Garvey Berger https://www.thecoachsjourney.com/podcast/episode-42-jennifer-garvey-berger-the-answer-to-either-or-is-both Sir John Whitmore – Coaching for Performance https://www.amazon.co.uk/Coaching-Performance-Principles-Personal-Professional/dp/1473658128 The Coach's Journey Podcast with Ruth Rochelle and Joey (video version) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kby9-D_5JwA BIOGRAPHY FROM RUTHFor more than 25 years Ruth has been a coach – an executive and team coach, workshop facilitator, transformational coach and coach supervisor – with private clients and with organisations.Ruth is an Accredited Master Executive Coach with APECS, an IFS (Internal Family Systems) Practitioner with the IFS Institute and a Coaching Constellations Practitioner, and her clients have included creative professionals, start-up founders, senior managers, young emerging leaders, celebrities, coaches, and many more.Ruth supports her clients to create and achieve their visions, enrich their relationships, navigate changing circumstances, embark on new life directions, start and grow businesses, address specific challenges, experience greater wellbeing and connect to a meaningful purpose.

Jim talks with Brendan Graham Dempsey about the ideas in his book Psyche and Symbolic Learning, volume 2 in his Evolution of Meaning series. We discussed hierarchical complexity, stage theories of development, constructivism & realism, dynamic skill theory, the Lectical Scale, ego development & consciousness, meaning systems & worldviews, cross-cultural developmental patterns, statistical distributions of developmental stages, the relationship between semantic richness & structural complexity, justification systems theory & cultural evolution, and much more. Episode Transcript A Universal Learning Process, by Brendan Graham Dempsey (Volume 1) Emergentism, by Brendan Graham Dempsey In Over Our Heads, by Robert Kegan "What Is It Like to Be a Bat?", by Thomas Nagel EP 172 Brendan Graham Dempsey on Emergentism EP 293 Brendan Graham Dempsey on Cosmic Teleology and Emergence Vectors Brendan Graham Dempsey is a writer, researcher, organic farmer, and the director of Sky Meadow Institute, an organization dedicated to “promoting systems-based thinking about the things that matter most.” He graduated summa cum laude with a BA in religious studies and classical civilizations from the University of Vermont and earned his master's from Yale University, where he studied religion and culture. He is the author of Metamodernism: Or, The Cultural Logic of Cultural Logics and host of the Metamodern Spirituality Podcast. His primary interests include theorizing developments in culture after postmodernism, productively bridging the divide between science and spirituality, and developing sustainable systems for life to flourish. All of these lead through the paradigms of emergence and complexity, which inform all of his work.

“When we have presence, it creates space for trust, clarity, and a real, true connection.” - Jill NowackiWelcome to episode 217 of The CUInsight Experience podcast with your hosts, Randy Smith, co-founder of CUInsight.com, and Jill Nowacki, President and CEO of Humanidei.This episode is sponsored by The Sheeter Group - a leading executive benefits firm that meets your retention and succession needs. This includes non-qualified benefit plans, short and long-term incentive plans, compensation studies, scorecard design, performance evaluation, and more. Learn more at sheetergroup.com.In this season, Jill and I will have conversations centered around leadership, credit unions, and living our best lives. We will have some of the most respected leaders from around credit unions who we are grateful to call friends join us in the discussion from time to time too.In this episode, we discuss all things presence and the importance of being present as a leader. Presence is the ability to truly show up mentally, emotionally, and energetically for your team and organization, and it's something that all leaders struggle with at one point in time or another, ourselves included. We discuss how a leader's presence shapes the team—without it, distractions, rushed decisions, and confusion take hold, but with it, trust, clarity, and connection flourish.We also highlight the need for leaders to be intentional about creating space in their schedules, setting boundaries, and resisting the impulse to jump between tasks or immediately respond to messages. Listen as we share some personal stories and insights around the struggle to disconnect, stay focused, and resist the urge to constantly check devices.We ultimately conclude that while presence may be one of the most overlooked leadership skills, it is also one of the most impactful, and by committing to regular practice and creating the conditions to truly show up and be present, leaders can unlock new levels of focus, connection, and effectiveness for themselves, their teams, and their organizations! We hope that you enjoy our conversation on presence!Find the full show notes on cuinsight.com.Subscribe on: Apple Podcasts and SpotifyAudiobook mentioned: An Everyone Culture: Becoming a Deliberately Developmental Organization by Robert Kegan, Lisa Laskow, et al.Previous guests mentioned: Leo Ardine (episodes 21 & 150)

This episode of Buddhist Geeks features a candid and heartfelt conversation between Vince Fakhoury Horn and Tasshin Fogleman about Palestine, the TPOT subculture, and what it means to embody true Bodhisattvahood. They explore the limitations of online discourse, especially around contentious issues, and reflect on the importance of good-faith dialogue, friendship, and spiritual integrity in times of crisis.Join Vince Fakhoury Horn and Brian Newman outside of Lisbon, Portugal at the beginning of 2026 for a 10-day intensive jhāna retreat. There, we'll be exploring The Flavors of Jhāna.Episode TranscriptVince:Hey Tasshin.Tasshin:Hi Vince.We just talked before I hit record. We just talked still. It's like formally. Hi. Hi. Tasshin: We're here. Vince: Yeah, exactly. That's good to see you. Tasshin: Yeah, good to see you too, brother. Yeah. Vince: Yeah, man, I appreciate you being willing to I invited you to have this conversation on X or my favorite platform to hate, Tasshin:My favorite platform to love.Vince: Great. I was there with you for a while, but yeah, it's getting a little weird. It's it's getting a little Faschy, X but we'll probably talk about that. So I propose that we talk about, this was the theme I proposed to you, which is Palestine, TPOT, and True Bodhisattvahood.. And it's, I guess in response to a lot of frustrated, angry, maybe righteous and not in a necessarily, in all bad sense. But yeah, in some posts that I've been sharing on X since I don't know it's been ongoing since the October 7th in my case. So I guess I wanted to explore that with you because I consider you to be one of my friends in the TPOT subculture, which we can get into and talk about what that actually is, Uhhuh because it's pretty, and it's it's vagueish, but, or decentralized at least.But it seems like you're well respected in this decentralized subculture and I think I'm part of that as well, but I seem to be taking a very different role from you and how I relate to it, which is a little bit more critical and Challenging and, I haven't found that's really endeared me to many people in the community.But some people like yourself have engaged with my critiques in what feels like a good faith way, and I've really appreciated that. So I thought, it'd be cool to have a, an even more personal conversation where people could see potentially if we decide to release any of this.And I don't know, just the human side of this, which doesn't come across often in 280 characters. Tasshin: Yeah. I appreciate all that context. I think that's really helpful and I think it's good to have a conversation about this. I think that I've been really struck by your perspectives on this and in general, I really value your perspectives and your opinions about the path and about practice and, we've had a number of disagreements over the years, but I've always walked away, like really learning a lot. And yeah, I do try to engage in good faith and I think especially one of the practices I have just for any kind of conflict in general is if I feel like text-based mediums especially can only hold so much.I don't even like to discourse or disagree on Twitter. I use it for other things and it's hey, if I'm, I've said this to you before, if we have a disagreement, let's get on a call and actually talk about it. And because it's just, you can actually hear the other person's perspective and where they're coming from in a way that text just really doesn't afford.So I'm glad we're talking about this. Yeah, I think it's great. Yeah. Vince: And the downside of doing that without recording it and sharing it back, because of course then it's just like a private thing that happens Right, and doesn't necessarily filter out in the same way to the collective. Tasshin: Totally. Totally.SoVince: This is cool. Yeah. Thank you. Tasshin: Do you have any suggestions for where you'd like to start or what feels like a good starting place?Vince: I would be curious to see your take on what TPOT is or how you'd describe that phenomena. I did spend a little bit of time reflecting on it, and I came up with a little, like micro definition, but I don't think it's exhaustive this a starting point.But I'm curious even before sharing that, if there's anything, thoughts on TPOT and what it is, if you've thought, have you meditated on that? How do you can, Tasshin: yeah. I love that and I'm so curious what your definition will be. I suspect it'll be spicier than mine, but I liked what you said earlier about it being a decentralized community.because I, I felt a little bit of trepidation before this conversation for really all three of the things you want to talk about. I feel like, so woefully inexpert in and I really don't know as much as I ought to about the war, and I don't know as much. I, I don't know. I'm not, I'm in TPOT certainly, but I'm not, there's no elected four figure leader or something.It's decentralized, as you said. And then also at the Bodhisattva path, I'm like still figuring it out very right. As we all are so right. But yeah, TPOT, I think for me it's very much about specific people, like their specific friends that I've cultivated very deep friendships with, that I've met through Twitter, and developed those relationships through Twitter and their, I think some of my closest friends at this point are people I've met through Twitter and they're friendships that I treasure and I think it is decentralized.I think it's. Spread throughout the world at this point. Like I can go to any major city and meet people who are connected to this network. And I, like my friend Andrew Rose has been talking about it recently as the network where it's yeah, it's not really about Twitter anymore. And it's not really, it's a larger cloud of people that are connected and I think it's not necessarily ideologically on the same page, like people having the same perspectives or even shared practices.There might be shared interests and common overlaps, but I think people have very different perspectives on the world. And it's more, if anything, I'd say it's like a developmental similarity where, for me at least, it really helped me to, I started to enter TPOT. I could go into detail, but as I was individuating from being at the monastery for many years and it's I mean it from a developmental perspective, it helped me jump from three to four in the Keegan stages where it's like I was in a tribal state of mind identified with the maple ideology and worldview and practices, which was great for me at the time. It really was. And then it's, it stopped being great for me and I had to find a new way and being with so many weirdos from around the world who saw things so differently really helped me to find my own way and find my own life. So I feel a sense of connection and intimacy with it, and like indebtedness to it, where it's these are my people and a help that helped me to find myself in the world.Yeah, that's what TPOT is to me at least. Vince: I like what you're saying about the developmental part. I guess I see the phenomena similarly like this is something that. There's a lot of people coming together, not, like you said, around a particular ideology or like framework.Which is very common. Like a bunch of people come together on a specific book or teacher or teaching or whatever. This is different because there are teachers and teachings that are, you see commonly in that community. But it's pretty broad. Yeah. Tasshin: And you don't have to buy into any of them.I think there are major, if anything there's like themes, like non coercion is a big one or Right. And people bring their own interests and you don't have to be interested in the same things other people are interested in. Vince: But there's something, if you put all those themes together, you'd start to see like broader theme of Absolutely.Yeah. The connection there. Yeah. Which I think you're totally right. It's, there's something maybe developmental underneath that. I was thinking about the book, The Postmodern Condition. Which David Chapman originally recommended to me. He's one of the, he's a TPOT Philosopher.Maybe he wouldn't he probably reject that phrase term, but he is a philosopher and well respected in that space. Tasshin: Sure. Vince:And I remember the the author Jean-François Lyotard, he said, simplifying to the extreme, “I define postmodern as incredulity toward meta narratives.”And I find there's something very postmodern about this community where there's a kind of general skepticism toward meta-narratives, of thinking that like one way of describing reality could be totally comprehensive and true for everyone, everywhere, all the time.And I see that as one of the things I really appreciate about TPOT. In terms of it representing a move out of like the modern condition, which was much more like about trying to find the right ideology and all these clashing Isms, Communism versus Capitalism versus all these kind of clashing religions.Who's got the best, which framework is going to come out on top, and everyone's going to eventually believe it's like some, I see that as the more of the modern condition. And so in that sense it feels like a real relief, to see communities, that are forming around.Around this. And it, I guess that's the reason for me, I always connect my experience of coming up in the integral community, Ken Wilber's community with TPOT because it felt like a very similar kind of vibe there. Where so many people I met were just doing radically different kinds of things.And, there'd be someone who's super into, like spiritual surrender, the lineage of Adi da, who is also like a concert pianist that I'm literally describing an actual person I worked with. And then someone else would be like, super into video production and have no interest in spiritual practice or meditation, but they have a lot of interest in like psychological work.And yeah, I guess that's something I've seen is consistent with the TPOT world. Is this sort of like postmodern incredulity towards meta narratives?Tasshin: How would that fit with it being I've never really understood this, but would you describe TPOT as meta-modern, or not meta-modern.Vince: I guess for me, I would say the center of gravity of TPOT seems to be in the transition between modern to postmodern. Like that I would call that post rational. Because the main mode of modernity is rational individualism. It's this is Ken Wilber's and Jean Gebser's take, but I find that to be true.So people like are questioning the limits of rationality and model making are post rational. I see, and I think as a result they're postmodern. But there's a transition, it's like there's a awkward developmental phase where you're letting go of, the absoluteness of models and you can ken Wilber called it the “performance contradiction.” He said, you can you can absolutize that too, or you can say everything is relative. That statement isn't a relative statement, it's an absolute statement. All perspectives are valid. Okay. That perspective you're saying is more valid than any other perspective, which says that certain perspectives are more valid than others. And so like the whole idea of postmodernity rests on a performance contradiction. That's, or at least the early stages of it where you're deconstructing that mo deconstructive, postmodernism Robert Kegan, would call it.He also has a reconstructive postmodern phase. I don't think TPOT is in the reconstructive postmodern phase, but I think some people in it are. It's like there's a spectrum, within, there's a center of gravity, but there's a spectrum. As well or more, it's like a scatter graph, Uhhuh, where like most of the dots are in the center around this sort of modern to postmodern transition, but then there's like trailing off in both directions.You'll see some people that are more traditional that are there just treating it like a group. I'm sure you saw that probably at Vibe Camp. Probably some people there that are just like. Just drinking the Kool-Aid and don't really, aren't really, maybe vibing in the same way as everyone else.Tasshin: Uhhuh. Vince: And then you find some weird people too that are like aliens even within the space. Who seem to be like a David Chapman I mentioned. He seems like a, an alien to me. Tasshin: An example, Vince: I think he's talking, I think he's a meta-modern Tasshin: thinker.Vince: I don't know.So I, I see a mix, but I mostly see people in the Yeah. Like early postmodern stage, Tasshin: I recently saw a really nice tweet from Mechanical Monk where, which I can link you to later, but he drew this diagram or made like a video of what TPOT is, and he was arguing that like TPOT is a moving target where like i'm thinking of these people. And then you're thinking of these people and there's some overlap, like you and I are both friends with, like Daniel Thorson for example, or. Some other people that we'd have in common, or I know who David Chapman is or whatever. And so there, there's enough overlap that we could be like, oh, we're both pointing at TPOT, but then you don't know some people that I'm pointing to and I don't know some people you're pointing to.And then eventually this is happening more and more. Or people use the acronym TPOT and you're like, I've never seen you. I don't know who you're talking about, and I don't know what you're describing. I think you and I have enough of a shared sense of the thing, but yeah, I thought that was a really good point, that it's not like a homogenous group.Like it has a no, no one likes, this is a very probably like post rat thing to do. Nobody likes labeling it. So it's everyone's unhappy with the term TPOT. Nobody wants to identify as TPOT or as a post rat or whatever. Even the term, Vince: I mean in the phrase the acronym TPOT itself isTasshin: relative and it's like relational.Vince: This part of Twitter. Yeah, no, you're saying it's like a network and I see that. There was a site for a while, I don't know if you saw it, where you could like, you could see the sort of it was like a ranking or listing of the most sort of central, I do remember that inside of a network, it was like the tea, you could pull up TPOT and see a list.I was like, I'm on that list. Which I would, which I would take myself, I would opt out of that list if I could choose to. But it's not a choice as you're part of this network.Tasshin: Yeah. If you know the acronym ar arguably you are in it. It's just once and.Vince: Yeah. Yeah, that's right. Yeah. So what I hear you saying from like the network perspective is like you, you see it from your point of view of the network. And the network is evolving, it's not static. It continues to grow and change and shift. That's right. So your view of it is changing and shifting with the network.That's right. So you both, you have both a limited view and it of something that's changing. That seems true to me. Which doesn't mean we can't talk about it. Or try to, come up with something useful to say about it. I would describe it this way. I'll tell you how I would describe it.Yeah. Yeah. Let's hear it. Oh boy. I'm not so sure about the last part. No, it's not that bad. So I describe TPOT as a weird, and here I'm using the weird acronym, Western educated, industrialized rich and democratic post rational subculture that's connected by shared interest in self-agency and awareness.Tasshin: That seems good. Something that's popping out to me is just also how much of this is specifically enabled by the internet and Twitter in particular, or I think there's something starting to happen that you could call like a Twitter like Blue Sky is a Twitter or Mastodon is a Twitter. I hope we have other Twitter likes in the future.because as you said, X is becoming fahy. Or to me, the thing that a Twitter is very much like a public library, and then Twitter happens to be a company and it's that has skewed incentives and stuff like that. But any case I'm like, yeah that all, everything you said tracks and then it's I think it is meaningfully enabled by technology, right?And whatever a Twitter like is in particular. Vince: Okay. Yeah. That's good. So that's missing in my description here. I agree. It's enabled by that and there's something too like it. The tech, the technology itself is very postmodern. These platforms and microblogging platforms, like you're getting these really tiny little snippets that are largely decontextualized.And you're just seeing a bunch of decontextualized atomized information flowing constantly through your stream without, you have to put the context together. That's right. The platform itself does not do that. In fact, it, if you're not, if you don't have the capability to do that, it might actually be really problematic because That's Tasshin: true.Vince: Yeah. You don't know. So I'd say it's almost perfectly compliments the subculture, the design of it.Tasshin: That's true. And it makes sense of like why you would feel a resonance with, I wasn't in this myself, but from what I imagine the integral community and then also why that would be different of I imagine Twitter wasn't a huge part of that back then because it, I don't even know what the were, but wasn it wasn't even, it Vince: wasn't, no, Twitter launched the year after I left the Integral Institute. So yeah. It wasn't part of that blogging and podcast or very early, like web two was part of it for sure.But it was primarily an in-person community. It was centered. It was like centered in person and then had a sort of one to many kind of broadcast media kind of web 2.0 media thing to it. So it did look a lot different than that. It occurs Tasshin: to me that, at least in my experience, the technology feels really central to the thing.And the properties you named are almost like emergent or like the kinds of people that would resonate with it or something, or be able to make full use of it or Right. What have you. But it doesn't seem intrinsically necessary, but it does seem to me almost, like that if you have a Twitter, like something like this subculture would arise and I could see different, similar subcultures that had different properties or even an ideology or like different developmental stages or something.But I think that a Twitter is really good at clustering people who can vibe together or relate to each other and in a way that's more emergent. I think a lot about individualism and collectivism and I think that this kind of technology affords the possibility of yeah, basically a Hegelian synthesis of individualism and collectivism where each person can be their own individual, but also be in community with a larger network that respects their individuality, but can coordinate as a whole and.I think Twitter likes uniquely make that possible. And I could see ones that were like clusters that were meaningfully different. You'll see sometimes people talk about this, they're like, maybe there's a whole other cluster that's not connected to us at all that we have no idea about. Almost the I forget what the alien version of that is, but like the likelihood that there's an alien is civilization in any given solar system.It's maybe they're out there. Who knows. Vince: Something like, like the Drake equation would describe the Drake equation, how likely that would be. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's interesting. You're using the term Twitter. I don't know if we've talked about this, but I will explicitly not use that term anymore to refer to X, mainly because I think people are confusing the term Twitter with the term microblogging. Huh? Since it was the original Microblogging platform, I think a lot of times we conflate Twitter with Microblogging. And so when you say Twitter, like I, that's another way to me of saying Microblogging.What's Tasshin: important to you there? Vince: It's important to me to stop being so sentimental about Twitter because Twitter's dead and whatever that it was, is gone. But Microblogging is alive and well and it's probably doing better now than when Twitter was alive. So I think it's somehow by being sent sentimental Twitter, we mask our ability to perceive what's happening in broader terms with microblogging. And we potentially overlook a lot of nasty shit happening on X.com as well by doing that. Tasshin: I see. Yeah I tend to use the word Twitter for different, maybe sentimental reasons as you're saying, but it's an intentional use on my term. On my part. And maybe I'll just use the word Twitter and you can use the word X and we can Vince: Yeah, no, it's fine.Proceed accordingly. It's No, it's fine. I just wanted to point that out. Very good. That's a difference in frames. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. This has been very conceptual so far, but I'm curious to bring it a little downward too, because I remember maybe it was like a week after October 7th Hamas attacked civilians in Israel and.I knew from my own experience having grown up in a, as a Palestinian and American household and having watched this to some degree play out over 40 plus years, 40 years at the time that I was like the blow back from this is gonna be 10 x at least. Because that's consistent. Throughout time it's always Israel will respond with 10 times the amount of violent force at least. And so I was like, if you take the numbers, I was like, that's. That's catastrophic. That's gonna be terrible. And so I knew within the first week, and I shared this on X, that this is going to be a genocide.And so for me, this is the perspective I'm coming from is like I've known that a genocide has been going on for, from the beginning. Have known that the intention or that the likely the likely response was gonna be genocidal. And I think there's a lot of debate about whether or not this is I think that debate is now totally foolish from my point of view.You frame this for instance, as a war, I would call it a genocide. I would say the genocide rather than the war. Or the occupation, which more, more accurate description. because a war assumes that there's two countries, two sides that are equivalent and they're at war.But this is rather like a group of people who've been dispossessed and occupied for decades. Who wrongly lashed out and hurt civilians. But who did so from the point of view of being in a one up, one down power position? So like the group of people or Palestinian people, had been occupied, their movements are controlled.Things coming in and out of Gaza were controlled in terms of water, food, et cetera. Many people described it as an open air prison. Including a colleague of mine who lives in Tel Aviv. He described it that way to me one time. And so from my point of view, it's a lot of times people don't understand when they enter into this, the history of this, that just the basic history of occupation.And so to frame it as a conflict between two equals is a, in a way obscures the power. Dynamics at play where, one group has so much more power over the other and has so much more are literally like nuclear power that's backed by the most powerful military in the world. Who has a lock on the un Tasshin: In Vince: terms of our ability to veto the Americans. So it's David and Goliath rather than, two superpowers going to war. So that's one thing I'll just share is just the frame for me of Palestine. And so I'm, I've been seeing it that from the very beginning.And what I've found with, on, on platforms like X and with the community of TPOT is. Just this sort of maddening silence. Or this sort of schizo, in my experience is like a schizophrenic feed, where on the one hand I'm seeing Palestinian activists and intellectuals and people who are I think doing good work at bringing awareness to an ongoing livestream, genocide.And then an another group of folks more in the TPOT space who are kind of sharing their psychotic explorations and talking about their cool practices and giving, challenging takes and all of which has this other very different vibe which is much more self-focused. And and the two of them in contrast really, that's, for me, that's my, that, that's the tension I'm existing in.And I can totally relate to the self. Absorbed interest in my own transformation and wanting to play around. And it, I totally get that because that's where I've been. Like that's my background as well. But it's, yeah, it's maddening to see these two side by side. And I feel like there's so much missed opportunity with TPOT given that it's so influential right now in culture, in our mainstream culture.And so I guess I, I'm saddened by the fact that I don't see that community having really come around to care much about what's happening in these kind of global situations. Like you, you talked about individualism and collectivism. I feel like it's way more skewed toward individualism in the TPOT world than it is collectivism.So I, that's actually a criticism I'd have. I don't feel like they're both ending it at all. But. Anyway. Yeah, that's just a little bit where I'm coming from,Tasshin: I hear you. Just first off, really mourning and grieving the plate of the Palestinian people that's happening and feeling personally connected to that because of your family and watching the news very closely and really actively grieving that, of just the evil that's happening and caring about that and wanting to see that change and end, and seeing that as a genocide, not as a war.And really appreciating people who are speaking up and being vocal about it and trying to work for change to resolve that crisis and. It feeling used the word like schizophrenic to see TPOT, which seems like self-absorbed and individualistic, where it's like people are talking about whatever they're on about, and it's I got this metaphor hearing you talk about it, of someone who's starving, who's like incredibly hungry, and then they're like next to some rich people who are like having like coffee and talking about, some obstru philosophy and you're like, I'm starving.Can you please give me some of your food? There I'm having a real problem here and you're talking about this stuff that really doesn't matter. And yeah, that being really painful and then also a care about you're like, yeah, TPOTs incredibly powerful and culturally powerful and why aren't you talking about this?You should be talking about this so that we can use your power for good and change the world in that way. Vince: Yeah. Yeah. And I think that's a naive of me to expect that in some way. So this is where I get a little, this is where I feel the bind. It's on the one hand I intellectually get if this really is developmental as we're describing if this cultural phenomena has a developmental dimension to it, then why would I expect the bulk majority of people who are, coming out of individual rationalism to be focused on anything other than that kind of things are related to that.Who would be well Tasshin: positioned to make a change that had positive effect in the world from a developmental perspective? Vince: That's a good question. I guess anyone could. So maybe the issue isn't the underlying development, but it's the culture, the cultural expression of that. In this case, it's, WEIRD is, I think a good way of putting it, white sorry, Western, but those two are connected, educated, industrialized, rich, and democratic.It feels like a lot of what you're saying is true because we're, we are in this WEIRD culture in the US largely, especially the educated TPOT, whole US is not WEIRD. A lot of, there's a lot of uneducated people and people without access to resources, but but we're having this weird conversation.And meanwhile in the global Commons, we're like you said, right next to people that are posting videos constantly of people being, shot and killed and assassinated executed, like right there, children starving, et cetera. And it's it, this is the critique that Postmodernism has had for a long time of modernity.It's like the colonialist thing. It's like how is it that we have so much privilege to be able to have these conversations in the first place, because we ourselves are living on dispossessed land. Like we ourselves dispossessed the Native Americans to be able to be here, we ourselves brought African slaves from Africa to be able to take care of our cotton mills and our run our agricultural industry.And so we ourselves built a country on those very foundations and we ourselves as Western people escaped persecution in Europe. Our whole history of escaping persecution and then bringing it with us is what's happening with Israel and Palestine, from my point of view, it's the same basic pattern.I think it's hard to see that when you're focused on you Tasshin: On Vince: your individual journey of transformation and without being able to zoom out into these broader collective patterns that are shaping you as much as you are shaping yourself. And I wonder if sometimes, like we overestimate our agency, or we over-index on our agency in this community. That'd be my, I guess my question or challenge to folks. Tasshin: Can you say more about that? The over-indexing on agency? What you mean by that? Vince: Yeah, so like for me the synthesis of the agency, of agency and communion is what I'm most, most interested in right now.Because that schizophrenic split feels like it's a split of these two, where it's like you have people that are high agency and have lots of opportunity and privilege, and then you have people that have extremely low ability to opt to effectively exercise their agency. They barely can get food. So it's like such a huge contrast there. And what's the difference between these two groups of people? Like historically it's the only reason I'm on this side of the street is because my grandfather was able to get into this country in 1950.And he was lucky, essentially. So like the only difference is basically luck of birth. Like where are you born? And we, I think we take so much credit for the stuff that is, has nothing to do whatsoever with us. It's like when Obama, said you didn't build that and everyone fucking flipped out.You don't know if you remember that he was talking about, I don't know, he was talking about infrastructure and there was a huge backlash from the Right. Like we built that, in hyper American individualism. And it's I think, you know what the genocide and Gaza's taught me is I'm just lucky.I'm just lucky because I have cousins who are in the West Bank right now and they're living in concentration camp type environments. Like they, they're scared to leave their home because people around them are getting shot by settlers and, five Palestinian Americans have died in the West Bank this past year.People who are just going over there to visit family. So it's extremely bad right now, even in the West Bank, which is considered to be the more stable of the two Palestinian regions. In Gaza, I have two family members here in North Carolina and Asheville that are mar married into my family. So they're not direct family members, but their spouses, and they both have lost over 200 family members in Gaza. Which is hard for people even in the West to understand, because they don't, we don't come from big families like that where you could even imagine having 200 family members.But yeah, like whole family trees are essentially being wiped out. Yes. Are cut down. So it's, to me it's very, because I'm in both worlds. I'm teaching meditation and I'm hearing about, what's going on for my cousin in the West Bank, and I'm hearing about what's happening for other Palestinians that I know.I'm like, this is, it's a very hard tension to hold. So for me, the synthesis of agency and communion is I can recognize, like I have a certain amount of agency in part because of the communal situation. Like we have a community that optimizes for agency. And it optimizes for agency at the at the negative at the expense of many other communities, agency and has historically and even presently, like a lot of.The opportunities we have are because of they've been taken rather than, it's like not an omni win situation. So I feel like there's a lack of kind of acknowledgement of that, that often in part because you start to feel really bad. And if there's anything I've noticed about TPOT is like, people don't want to feel bad.Like people wanna empower each other and raise each other up. And I think there's something beautiful about that. But to me it's come, it comes at the expense of valid criticism, of being open to hearing valid criticism. And that's the kind of, that's, that adds how I felt. I've been res largely, my, my criticisms have been responded to.It's oh yeah, this is, you're just like it's I'm a downer. I'm like, yeah, sorry. It's fucking, it is a downer. It really is. How do you, I know that's general and broad, but how do you respond to something like that?Tasshin: Can you ask a, I there's a lot of thoughts running through my mind. Can you ask a specific question? Vince: I'm just curious what your general Yeah. Sense of that is.Tasshin: First off, my heart hurts. It hurts to know that violence is happening at scale and it hurts to hear that. And I'm okay hurting.I know, I've done a lot of, I, I can feel that, but it hurts and I feel sad and I feel grief knowing about this travesty that's happening. AndI feel that about a lot of things that I know about in the world now, including this. And that's always,yeah. Hard to be with. And I try to learn how to be with that and, i'm grateful for the opportunity to be reminded of what's happening and to be connected to it. I feel a desire to have change occur that feels like it matters. I would like war, genocide, evil violence to end. I'm a pacifist.My, one of the worst days of my life every year is when I pay taxes. I hate paying my taxes, partly because it's annoying bureaucratically, but even more so because I feel like I'm compromising my own ethics by supporting the US military. And that I every year I decide I'm gonna pay my taxes so that I can contribute, continue to be part of this society in a legal and upright way.I'm not morally opposed to taxes as such, but I am morally opposed to what my government does with those taxes, including I don't know the full extent of this. I'm sure you know much more, but certainly being complicit in this war, genocide, violence, murder. Bombing evil. Yeah. And other evils known and unknown.I know that and I've been around a little bit. So that hurts. That's the first and foremost thing. And I feel for you, having family i's just I went through just a couple years ago my mom dying of cancer, and we knew about it four years before she died, three, four years before she died.And she lived a blessed life, and I felt perfectly ready to let her go. And it was still really hard. And it's imagine my family members being murdered at scale and being starving and being oppressed and in all kinds of ways that I can only imagine. It's that my heart would just be breaking on a daily basis.And I feel for you, my friend, going through that and, for the Palestinian people more broadly, such that I'm connected to them and for all who are subject to war. It's just it's just evil. It's just e that, like you, you wanna call it genocide? I'll just call it evil, like it's, I think violence is evil and war is evil and genocide is evil and bombs are evil and guns are evil.And murder is evil and killing children is evil. And it's just, my heart breaks at that. As far as the other specific things you were saying, I'm reminded of a an argument that I've had or witnessed many times where there's kind of two recurring schools of thought in our culture where how do I summarize this? Because I've seen this in a lot of specific instances, and I don't wanna get into the specific instances, but let's take a simple example like say your relative was a Trump supporter, and you personally didn't vote for Trump and don't want Trump to be president. There are people in our culture at this time who would say the thing to do is to be disconnected from that Trump supporter and to never talk to them and to shame them for who they are and or give them radio silence and cut ties.And that's a whole school of thought that applies to many issues. And then there's a school of thought that says how are you gonna change their mind if you don't stay connected to them, if you don't really understand where they're coming from and listen to them and talk to them and share your own perspective.And I tend to be more in the latter school of thought of connection is the basis of change. Actually hearing other people's perspectives, sharing my own, to the extent that it's possible. And you're not. Beating each other up or whatever shooting at each other. But I think being connected to people is the basis of change.And I'm getting here somewhere here with this, which is to me, I hear you saying, I'm not part of TPOT. These are the people that are in TPOT. They're silent, they have these, I don't know, I hear you talking about like collective blind spots, which I think are very valid. I'm glad you're mentioning them, but it's like those people have the blind spot.And this is their problem. And to me I could be wrong, but think, Vince: It's really the Palestinians problem. They're the ones that are suffering for the collective blind spot. They're suffering a lot more. Tasshin: Yes.I think that. You could usefully see yourself as part of TPOT, and that by staying connected to people in TPOT and speaking to them, you can change their minds. I think you've changed my mind about things about this and had an impact on me and had a causal influence on me. And I see you having that impact on a other people.And I think that if you took that perspective, there's more or less efficacious ways of doing that. Ways that, that, that's a question that's come up for me about this is actually about like theories of change. And just one more thing is I was recently in Santa Fe, my dad moved to Santa Fe and when I was there, there's a lot, my dad is like very near the Santa Fe is the capitol, and he is very near the capitol where the government is.And so there's just always protests there like at least once a week. And I get, I personally, me, Tasshin, get so angry at these protestors because I, in my current worldview, think that their theory of change is just shit. They're like, by going to this place and having a sign, I'm gonna change the world. It, to me, I see that is like by and large, incredibly efficacious and not gonna produce the change that they want.And do I know what the theory, what a theory of change is that would produce it? No, but I am spending all of my time and energy on things that I think will have a positive change in the world. Even if they're not enough, even if they're not direct enough, even if they're not gonna end or resolve all the issues I care about, which are many.I am putting all of my time and energy into things that I believe are efficacious. And presumably they think it's efficacious too. They think this is worth doing because they're doing it. And in a way I'm wrong about it because demonstrably people think that holding a sign in front of a capitol is gonna change the world.But, Vince: It does boost their agency when people protest that's, it's an exercise in agency. Tasshin: I do think there's a critical threshold where if enough people protest something, I can't have a change. Obviously that's happened Vince: Arab Spring. Tasshin: Exactly. So it's not, it's definitely not useless. But my point to you as an individual that I care about as my friend, is I think you're actually incredibly well positioned to have a cultural impact on this group that you already are connected to, and that there are more or less efficacious ways of doing that.Like this conversation is efficacious, right? We're having a real conversation between two people who respect each other. We're recording that so that other people can listen. I think that's actually likely to produce the change that you're desiring to some extent. Is it gonna it's hard to say.Vince: It's hard to say. I hear what you're saying. Yeah, I think you and I have talked about this in the past too. I have, some of the biggest changes I've been through have come through people challenging me even violently. And my whole upbringing, as you can hear, it's rooted in violence. Yes. So it's like the story of my family.Is one of resilience in the face of violence, Tasshin: Uhhuh. So this is the recurring thing we always argue about. Yeah. Or one of the several things. Vince: Yeah. It's an, it's like in a place where we rub, I think, but Yeah. But it's understandable. So I'm a little more Okay. Ruffling feathers and even having active conflict with people because I know that sometimes that's actually good.Sometimes if you're too nice, people won't hear you. If you have something powerfully challenging to say, it will just be like, oh yeah, that's nice. And I can just incorporate that into my worldview and feel good about knowing about it, but actually not really be doing anything significantly differently.So it's like a, I don't know, this is in the abstract, but. Tasshin: There's two things there. What there's one is, which is like, how nice are you? And I actually do honestly believe that you would be more efficacious at seeing the changes you want to see, at least in the local community if you were nicer.In addition to being kind. I do think you're kind, that's not an issue. But separately from that, like you, one of the things we talked about recently on the timeline was you're like, I've just been considering blocking people left and right. And I think that Oh, I have been blocking them lost.Exactly. Vince: I've lost half of my friend network in the last year. Tasshin and so that's where I am. So here let me push back a little bit. I lo yeah. I lo I love what you're saying, but I don't think it's my job to do that. I think it's your job to do that, to, to be the one that can be nice and change people's minds on this topic.Tasshin: Oh, that's true. It is my job. You're right. I Vince: agree with you. Yeah, because because I'm too close to it. It's too painful for me. Like people start saying stuff to me. It is like I'm hearing them deny the entire, like truth of my whole identity, my family identity. It's no, like this is true.I'm not, I'm gonna have argue with you like you are dehumanizing me and everyone that's Palestinian right now. Even by having an argument, having even framing this as a debate, is there a war going on? Who's responsible? Et cetera. So it's like what I find is I want to keep talking because I want, it's like the Buddha, he's, and I'm comparing myself to the Buddha here.I know he is gonna fly really well, there, there's an analogy here where he's I'm awake. Okay. Who can I, teach this to, very few are gonna understand it. Because it's subtle and hard to get grasp. My companions, the ones I was practicing with they seem like they'll get it.They have very little dust in their eyes. So I guess I see my role as really more like the people that have very little dust in their eyes. Maybe I can reach them. What's the difference Tasshin: in this case between someone who has dust in their eyes and someone who doesn't, from your perspective?Vince: Are they, yeah. Are they awake to their complicity in a gen, in an active livestream? Genocide? Are they aware? I pay Tasshin: my taxes and, Vince: That's part of it. That's part of it. Yeah. It's like paying taxes. You, like you said, you can't really stop paying your taxes.My uncle did that. Went to prison. I actively Tasshin: choose Vince: to pay Tasshin: my taxes. I think I could stop paying my taxes. Could, I'm saying every year I considered you can do that. Vince: I seriously Tasshin: consider it. Every you'll to prison. Every year. Vince: You'll, you will go to prison. Tasshin: Yeah, exactly. And I believe I can have more impact, positive impact on the world by paying my taxes and not, and I, every, it's a trade off.Literally every year I make this decision again. Vince: Yeah. So it's, to your point, it's not it's not like a black and white thing where it's like. I'm complicit in this very obvious way that I'm just choosing not to. It's, it, the complicity is deep and it's multidimensional, subtle and Tasshin: systemic and multi-generational.And even, Vince: and yeah, and for me it's I was hanging out with a couple of my cousins recently who are from Palestine. They immigrated here in the early nineties when Palestinians were kicked out of Kuwait. And so they were here, they had to rebuild their life. They lost everything. And I grew up with them.And they're doing advocacy work now in the us And when I hear them, talk about their experience, it's like they're being, they're dealing with shit that I'm not having to deal with. Like one of my cousins recently lost her job. She was a high level exec at a tech company in San Francisco.And she thinks it's likely that she lost it because of her advocacy work within the company. So when I guess when I see. I've lost the thread a bit here in terms of connecting back to what we were talking about. But where was I going with that? Tasshin: You were saying something as my job as being TPOT versus your job.Vince: So like when I talk to, say I'll talk to my great uncle my grandfather's brother who grew up in Palestine, and I'll hear the kinds of things that he'll share. And like I, I don't have those kind of views. Like he's extreme compared to me in terms of like how he's viewing things.This is my interpretation. There's a definitely antisemitic tendencies in, in the family system that I've seen explicit and I understand why. Like I have a lot of compassion. I don't actually let it stand. I challenge it when it arises. Even now. This is this uncle I'm talking about.It's his family and his daughter that's in the West Bank right now. He's considering going to visit her in a couple months. He might get shot and killed while he is there. It's quite possible. For me it's like I, I see I can listen to him and I can hear him talk about stuff and I can sort through the pain and the antisemitism to hear, some of the, what's genuine and sincere and I can be there for him.And then I feel like I can reach out and connect with some people and share my pain and what I'm going through and, offer challenges or whatever to some folks. Recently right after September October 7th someone from he lives in Israel. He is American. We have the same background lineage of a pasta tradition.He invited me on to, to have a dialogue about this about what was happening. And and then after our we split, and we're not able to have any conversations anymore. Because some of the things I saw him writing on X and so the perspectives that he seemed to be taking, and we got to a point where we pulled in a mutual mentor someone someone who's like a master mediator.And their basic feedback was like, sometimes you can't have a conversation. Sometimes it's just not possible. And I feel like that's where I'm getting largely, it's it's just not possible for me to have a conversation with a lot of people right now. Because of how 10 how sensitive this is. And so you say, when you say to or I hear if you were kind or if you were nicer, you'd be more efficacious, if I were able to be, I would. But I'm not. Tasshin: And the second part of what I was saying there is that when you block people, you are closing yourself off from the possibility of changing them.And from what I've just heard from, and I'm okay with that. Yeah, exactly. That makes a bit more sense to me now from what you've said. But Vince: I'm not gonna change a Zionist's mind, I don't think, someone who's like a, Christian or Jewish Zionist, I don't think I'm gonna change their mind by sharing something on like a micro blog.Tasshin: That, one of the really urgent questions for me here is what is a theory of change that produces genuine end to war violence, genocide? What actually resolves that? Actually because if I let me figure out how to put this. I am currently putting my time and energy.Into the things that I think I can do that will have the highest benefit from my current understanding and vantage point. I literally spend every day of my life waking to sleeping, doing the thing that I think is best based on my, admittedly flawed, limited perspective, my own weaknesses and blind spots.But I do that every day. Every day. And if I thought that I could lead to the end of war, genocide, violence, evil in a scaled way I would work much harder to bring that about. I'd have to think about how it fits into all the things I'm doing and balance. But I really wanna know how someone like, I, I would hope for example, that the service guild at some point will have a peace department.Currently, we, as we have a love department, a curiosity department, an empowerment department. I would love for us to have a peace department. I want other departments, us to be able to have infrastructure for other focused crews. At some point it's the Peace Department should be bringing about peace.And I don't know how to do that. Even peace Pilgrim my hero, she spent 30 years working in the way that she knew how for peace. And I don't think she wasted her time far from it. But there is still not peace on earth after her doing that. Vince: Sure. Some of this reminds me, has echoes of the effect of al altruism movement.Yeah.Tasshin: I think they I feel how to put this, I have different aesthetic and ideological views with them on specific points, but I feel very sympathetic to their larger efforts and yeah, what do we actually do to actually have a real impact? I feel very I feel kinship with that, even if there's specific things I disagree with or don't vibe with.So yeah, that's noted. Vince: Yeah, I think if we were to zoom, like not to take the two global perspective of like, how do we stop all genocide, war, et cetera. And that's a good question, but to me it's like, how do we stop this specific one that's happening right now, Tasshin: Uhhuh.Like how, Vince: Because that's sure. So how do we stop it? Obviously you Tasshin: don't have to know, but what a different way of putting the question that's maybe a bit more reasonable. I think it, it's very Vince: noble. Like you, you stop Israel from killing Palestinians. That's how it, okay. And what leads Tasshin: to that causally?Vince: Probably having a Palestinian state would be a necessary part of that. And what leads to that? The US has to stop vetoing it in the us. And what leads Tasshin: to that? Vince: They change in US leadership and change. And what leads to that? People putting pressure and voting and grassroots organ organizing.Ah, that's Tasshin: where you lose me. Vince: Yeah. Look at look at Zohran Mamdani. He's a good example of how that's actually happening right now in the, he's the only candidate, like major candidate that I've seen recent in recent times. Progressive candidate who's actually vocal about this, who isn't on the, both parties, Kamala Harris and Donald Trump both supported the ongoing genocide. They're equally complicit. Tasshin: So basically we should or not leaders that are clear this in your perspective. What I'm hearing is Yeah. Yeah. The salient thing is elect leaders who are clear that this is a genocide who will end us complicitness and help and who are focused on economic populism.Vince: because our country really need, we need that right now. Tasshin: You lost me there. How does, what does that have to do with ending this genocide? Vince: You could it's both and so it's if you look at, this is a good example, I think part of, I grew up in the as probably you did too, in the.In the fading years of the political consensus between the neo-conservative and neoliberal parties, Tasshin: Uhhuh, Vince: who largely agreed on most everything, Tasshin: Uhhuh. Vince: They were both totally fine with military expansion. They were both fine with free trade agreements that hollowed out rural America and towns like in North Carolina, textile towns.Yeah. To save 5 cents, on a shirt made in Vietnam, we're totally fine letting an entire communities die, In towns we haul it out. So it's that kind of mentality, it's like what I grew up in and, it's like the arguments were mostly like stylistic. It's which style of the same ideology do you prefer?Tasshin: Coke versus Pepsi Vince: Ex. Exactly right. Coke and Pepsi. And Obama. He was, you fit right into this. He was not a departure, he was a rhetorician. Tasshin: Yeah,Vince: he sounded like a departure, but wasn't so true. Bestie. Yep. I think when I look at it in those terms, I say, okay what is so interesting about Donald Trump and the MAGA movement?It is actually presenting an alternative to the previous consensus. And I, the way I see American politics right now, and I could be wrong, is there's an emerging, there's a new emerging polarity. That alt left and right, quote unquote yeah, gosh, ne neo fascism and neo progressivism.And there's, and are you saying Tasshin: neo progressivism is the answer here? Vince: I'm, no, I'm not actually Uhhuh. Okay. Although, because some neo fascists don't want us to be sending money to Israel, Tasshin: Uhhuh, Vince: Marjorie Taylor Greene there, there's been a number that recently people who are like, why are we sending billions of dollars to Israel every year when we can't even take care of our own people?Yeah. And so I agree with that Uhhuh, what I actually think is emerging and has to emerge as an alt middle. It's a new. Consensus. And that alt middle will almost certainly not wanna continue propping up an American em military empire. Both alt-right and alt left. That's something they agree on.They don't want to be constantly waging endless wars. They don't wanna be always sending all of our money into our military budget. And is Tasshin: that connected to the populism you're talking about? Vince: Yeah, it is. Okay. It's a it's a strand of populism that's interested in retracting the American Empire and not continuing to create so many problems abroad.And who recognizes that doing so hurts us at home, Uhhuh, and because these things are interconnected. I see. Tasshin: Okay. Thank you for explaining that. Can I recount what I heard just now? Your, I, our, a shared goal that we have is we would like this war, genocide, violence, evil to end. We'd like it to end.And the way that comes about is Israel stops doing what it's doing. And the way that comes about is Palestine is a state and the US stops vetoing certain things at the un. And the way that happens is there's political pressure on the US to show up in a different way. And you're saying that the way that happens is we elect politicians who are want that course of action and also care about this populism and the relationship of how we're spending our money at home.Yeah. And the way that we do that is get involved in local political movements that support candidates that have that perspective. Vince: I think that's one of the most direct ways that uhhuh, that we can as Americans affected this. I'll tell Tasshin: you right now, I, I need to do due diligence on learning more about this, but I will very seriously both take that into consideration for my own voting and then also in how I speak about voting to my friends and people I'm connected to.That's not much. But this is more. That's what I really care about. I wanna make sure that whatever actions I take, I am that I can see. It matters to me that I can see how there could be a causal chain where this actually results in the things that we want, if that makes sense.I don't know why that matters to me so much, but it does. Vince: Yeah. Okay. We haven't talked about Bodhi Safa hood yet. Yes. So maybe I could bring that in. Yeah. Tasshin: Thank God, please. Someone helped me. Yeah. Vince: I don't know if you, it's a Tasshin: struggle out here. Vince: I don't know if you've heard this quote from Ujima Roshi Japanese Zen teacher.He said a Bodhi Safa is an ordinary person who acts like a true adult. Tasshin: I had never heard that before, but I love it. And what does true adult mean to you? Vince: I think a true adult is someone who sees a problem and they respond to it. And. A true adult recognizes the complexity of the situation and acts anyway with that with incomplete information with whatever resources and ability that they have while acknowledging that they're limited.So that's a start. True adult cares about themselves and others. I could even, I could actually inhabit as a true adult. I both take care of my life at home and I care about the impacts that that the country and systems I'm embedded in are having in the world. That I'm causal in, that I have some causal influence over, even if it's minimal.Tasshin: You know what I'm reminded of Vince is video game levels and I feel like. It seems it seems cr crass to pick levels, but I feel like, I don't know, let's say a level eight Bodhi Safa I'm not level one anymore. I'm not even level five anymore, but I feel acutely, like I'm really only level eight and I think it's gonna there are 10 Vince: levels aren't there In this game?I, oh no. Bodhi the boomie, the boom. No.Tasshin: I know what you're talking about. But also that's not the measurement system I'm using. Okay. You're not, Vince: it's not a traditional boomy model. No. Tasshin: I'm thinking like, I never played it, but like World of Warcraft, I'm pretty sure 80 is like a threshold in World of Warcraft.It's I'm pretty sure you need like a level 60 or 70 Bodhi Safa to have global systemic change at the level that's needed for the thing we're talking about. And I'm like I know if I have a friend that has a mental health crisis, like I'm struggling to barely be able to support them in a meaningful way.Like I'm embarrassed by how. Incompetent. I am at even that helping one person that's having a mental health crisis. Like I can help a little bit, but like I know someone who's an extended network right now is having their partner's having a major schizophrenic episode and I'm like, here, I can send you a link that might help you.That's that's so pathetic. That is so disgustingly pathetic for actually having an impact in the world. It's humiliating to admit, but here we are because there's real suffering and you have to do whatever we can to help. And so I would like to it would be great if I ended this year as a level nine Bodhi, that would be awesome.And do I want to have global systemic positive change on a historic scale? Absolutely. I hope that every passing year I'm more and more capable of. Large scale, positive impact, and I'm just so acutely aware of how incompetent I am and how limited I'm really doing everything I can to have a positive impact at the scale that I can right now.And it's it's pathetic and humiliating in the context of this larger suffering. I'm fine with that. I'm not embarrassed to say that, but it is humbling, it's it's not nearly good enough. And I think the more acquainted you are with how much suffering there is in the universe, the more humbled you are by that, by one's own incompetence to, and then you do, that's the Bodhi SA of vows, anyway, is just to be like greed, hatred, and end without end like vow to end it. Like you just, you get up and do something anyway. Vince: Yeah. I've. There's a distinction that's commonly made in like a, I would call it like in the woke pluralistic cultural scene of like intention versus impact.And that's an important distinction when you're starting to get into questions of race and racialization, because people will say things with a good intentions that hurt other people because they're ignorant of the impact that has for someone else. And here I think it's I think of that too with what you're saying, where it's okay yeah, like I want to become a, be a more impactful Bodhi Safa.I want to have a more net positive impact in the world. And on the one hand yeah, I could say, like you're saying it, I feel humbled and maybe embarrassed by how ineffectual I am. And. I also feel humble about the fact that I don't know the impact that I'm having. I don't understand it. And I feel like this is really, you probably have had a similar experience putting media out into the worlds, like with Buddhist geeks when we launched that, the hundreds and hundreds of people that I heard from over the years who are like, that had such a powerful impact on my life.And I'm like wow, okay. I, that was definitely not what I was aiming for. I was just doing something I thought was cool at the time. Honestly. And so that wasn't even necessarily my intention, but that was the impact. And so I'm amazed, I am amazed at how effective people can be without even knowing it. It's like hard sometimes. Hard to know. It's hard to measure. And that's where I would say it's the challenge here with what you're saying is I want to see if I'm effect. You have to be able to measure the effectiveness to be able to know, and we can't fully measure, we can get better at measuring, like we can maybe get more sophisticated in seeing and understanding our impact both negative and positive.But it's really difficult without going into you really have to have an understanding of the whole to be able to see your individual impacts on the whole. And I don't know, where am I going with this? Just to say there's some kind of feedback loop here that I think is like what the Bodhi Safa is driven by.It's like constantly coming back to. A wise or compassionate intention. And then do trying your best to live from that place, even if you're, not effectual. And then doing your best to understand the impacts of your actions So that, you can, that can inform how you act the next time that you're trying to be, coming from this place of genuine wisdom and compassion. And there's some kind of sharpening of like skillful means that happens in this feedback loop. Tasshin: Yeah. Vince: And to me, it's like the Bodhi Safa is one who's engaged in the pro in that process rather than Yes. Then there are different levels then are depths or degrees of skillfulness.And probably in different domains too.Tasshin: Yeah, of course. Multiple axes. Vince: So I hear what you're saying and I think that's valid. Like it isn't up to any, I don't think it's up to individuals to solve the global challenges.Tasshin: No, but I'm also like, I'm aware that I think I am I was just humble, so now I can be a little arrogant.I think I'm uniquely well-suited to create systems that actually do have causal impact on the historic scale over time. It just takes a long time and it takes very careful thought and a lot of care and consideration and love and effort. And so I would like to build systems that have a net positive historic impact on the scale of humanization.And as far as I can tell I'm playing my cards that way, where like I would really hope that if we fast forwarded 30 or 40 years, we would be like, Hey. The Service Guild did really good stuff that was net positive on human society and our civilization and the planet. And of course there'll be fuckups along the way where we mess up and I make just dumb mistakes and whatever.But I would hope that it's net positive and that it has a genuinely historic obvious impact on the world that was positive. So that's part of why my care, that's why I would wanna have this conversation at all, is like, how can I build systems that actually do have that kind of impact on ending, yeah.Including ending violence of all kinds and this conflict, this genocide, this war, this evil in particular. Vince: Yeah. I think that's a great intention. I, there's like a, there's a quote in the Bava Gita that's coming to mind. I can't remember the exact quote, but it's some, something about acting without any thought of results or it's happens in that famous dialogue between Krishna and Arjuna. Yeah, there's Tasshin: a difference in da I, I've been influenced a lot by DAAs strategy, and they talk a lot about the difference between means ends and conditions, consequences.And we're really trying to create the conditions for good consequences. So can I guarantee that we would have a particular result? Absolutely not, but absolutely not. But I think we can create the conditions for historic benevolent beneficent impact.Vince: It's interesting you're talking about a guild. Because to me it's I think of the Bodhi Safa as a more of like a. A relational phenomena. Tasshin: It's Vince: Team Bodhi Safa. Rather than a Bodhi Safa.And so it seems like a lot of the challenge here is around coordinating and connecting and aligning, collective alignment. And these are the things I think are very hard for people who've been trained to individuate and who are focused on their own agency. John Vey, the philosopher, he points out like when you take role, you are rolling yourself into that. You're losing a certain kind of agency by inhabiting a role, say role of father, role of teacher role of whatever you're limiting yourself in that role.And, but, and yet you have to play roles in cult in community Tasshin: to do anything. Yep. Vince: So I guess, yeah I don't know where to go from there. From here. Tasshin: I would summarize our conversation so far as follows. TPOT such as it is an emergent developmental p

What if your resistance to change isn't weakness, but wisdom trying to keep you safe? In this eye-opening episode, Meghan explores the fascinating concept of "immunity to change"—why even the smallest shifts can feel impossibly difficult, and why willpower alone isn't enough. Drawing from groundbreaking research by psychologists Robert Kegan and Lisa Lahey, she reveals how our unconscious "competing commitments" create an internal tug-of-war that sabotages our best intentions. Through personal stories and practical examples, Meghan shows how to work with your resistance instead of against it, using gentle experiments to test the fears that keep you stuck. Whether you've been beating yourself up for not following through on micro-pivots, or you're curious why change feels so hard even when you genuinely want it, this episode offers a compassionate new framework for understanding your inner protective system. Essential listening for anyone ready to stop fighting themselves and start creating sustainable change from a place of self-compassion. Links + Resources Full show notes Learn: Try my FREE Coherence session Shop: 30% off Rise + Shine: Guided Path to Heart-Led Living and Leadership

How do we keep working when tragedy shakes our lives? If seismic events disrupt our foundations, is it possible to build something new with confidence?For Ellie Scarf, suffering a heartbreaking loss led to profound changes that have moved her from her zone of excellence into her zone of genius, where she draws upon her experiences to offer her coaching clients an approach and a service that is uniquely her own.In this episode of The Coach's Journey Podcast, Ellie recounts the steps that took her from working as a lawyer in top tier legal firms to becoming a national sales coach for a billion dollar company. She describes how her coaching work was in the midst of a booming resurgence after the COVID-19 pandemic when tragedy struck.In conversation with host Ruth Saville, Ellie explains how she integrated her profound emotional experiences into a new way of working, turning her pain into a point of connection that deepened her client relationships.Now, alongside the client work that brings her joy every day, she also runs the Corporate To Coach Accelerator, building foundations for people on the runway to launching a business, and supporting coaches who are pivoting to leverage their skills in new ways. She is also CEO of Lucent Global coaching consultancy, which supports leaders and companies through significant periods of transition.She also has her own podcast, The Business of Executive Coaching Podcast, where she is just as inspiring a host as she is a guest in this episode.In this episode, Ellie and Ruth also talk about:· A brilliant strategy to solve the problem of building business development into your schedule· How to meet your clients where they're at on their particular developmental journey· What happens when non-directive coaching comes into conflict with a knowledge gap· How many coaching programmes selling quick pathways to success prey on people's fearsEllie also shares one crucial tip for anyone coach who is struggling to bring in business at the moment, offering a tried and tested way to make progress during lean times.Things and people we mentioned (that you might be interested in):- Tony Grant https://www.sydney.edu.au/science/news-and-events/news/2020/02/07/vale-professor-anthony-grant.html- Dr. Suzy Green https://instituteofcoaching.org/suzy-green- Masters course in Coaching Psychology at the University of Sydney https://www.sydney.edu.au/handbooks/science-pg/coursework/psychology-coaching.html#:~:text=The%20Master%20of%20Science%20in,working%20with%20non%2Dclinical%20populations.- The Positivity Institute https://thepositivityinstitute.com.au/- The Positivity Prescription https://thepositivityinstitute.com.au/product/the-positivity-prescription/- Dr. Susanne Cook-Greuter https://instituteofcoaching.org/author/cook-greuter-susanne- Robert Kegan's theory of adult development https://aliveandthriving.substack.com/p/kegans-theory-of-development-framework- Bill Torbert's development theory https://developingleadership.net/bill-torbert- The GROW model https://www.performanceconsultants.com/resources/the-grow-model- The House of Change model https://www.thevirtualtrainingteam.com/articles/change-management-models-the-change-house/- Dr. Louise Kovacs https://au.linkedin.com/in/louise-kovacs-9ba55a- Myers Briggs overview https://www.myersbriggs.org/my-mbti-personality-type/myers-briggs-overview/- Dr. Saba Hasanie https://www.linkedin.com/in/saba-hasanie-dprof-mcc-icf-1747572?originalSubdomain=sg- The Big Leap by Gay Hendricks https://www.harpercollins.com/products/the-big-leap-gay-hendricks?variant=32205677625378- Lucent Global https://www.lucentorg.com/about- Corporate to Coach Accelerator https://www.elliescarf.com/cca- The Coaching Business Flywheel https://www.thecoachsjourney.com/the-coaching-business-flywheel- Ellie's podcast episode on metrics for coaches https://www.elliescarf.com/podcasts/the-business-of-executive-coaching/episodes/2148566834- Tim Ferriss' billboard question https://medium.com/@podclips/the-top-25-answers-to-tim-ferriss-famous-billboard-question-3f19fba1a49c- The upper limit problem https://melodywilding.com/are-you-unconsciously-afraid-of-being-happy-why-we-self-sabotage-with-the-upper-limit-problem/

Dr. Laura welcomes Mike Horne PhD, author of The People Dividend and an executive and organization development coach, to the show to talk about his book and why he's drawn to making people and organizations better versions of who and what they currently are. Mike began his career in labour management relations, which led him into the world of learning and development. Mike's driving question has always been about how he could live out his humanistic values and help people. As he says “I'm not afraid to be called a helper.”Mike and Dr. Laura discuss organizational culture, remote and hybrid work, and the impact of helping professions. Mike describes his book, The People Dividend, as being about humanistic values as a way of creating engagement. The words he says are the most important are dignity, kindness, and respect. Dr. Laura learns how Mike guides people through growth, the impact his book is having, and how leaders can unlock the potential in people and find the best talent for the job.“I'm working on a very big project right now on Civility in an organization for a very large health care system. And I think it's just another way that we're talking about differences in the workplace. There's all kinds of backlash around diversity, equity and inclusion. It's very difficult for me to understand that, given that we have enough research that tells us that diverse teams understanding diverse customers helps you make money.” Mike Horne, Ph.D.About Mike Horne, Ph.D.:Mike Horne, Ph. D., is a highly experienced global corporate human resources and organization development leader, distinguished executive coach, best-selling author, and sought-after speaker. He is dedicated to empowering aspiring leaders, executives, and teams to navigate transitions, excel in new roles, and increase their effectiveness and influence. He hosts The People Dividend Podcast, which ranks in the top 10% of all podcasts globally.Previously, for nearly three decades, Dr. Horne held pivotal human resources and organization development roles, including the Head of Human Resources for Gilead Sciences' Research Division, Global Leader of Talent and Development for Brocade, and Head of Organization Development for Genentech. Before these positions, he served 15 years in human resources leadership roles for Nortel Networks, Marriott International, Towers Watson, and NLRB. He is the chairperson for the graduate Human Resources and Leadership Studies programs at Golden Gate University in San Francisco.In November 2024, Dr. Horne released The People Dividend: Leadership Strategies for Unlocking Employee Potential, which outlines the “people dividend” philosophy and identifies key areas for investment, such as building trust, encouraging motivation, ensuring open communication, retaining employees, making better decisions, and enhancing the organization's reputation. He is also the author of Integrity by Design: Working and Living Authentically, which calls readers to their higher purpose and to the aspiration to work and live authentically.Resources:Website: Mike-Horne.comLinkedInInstagramYoutubePodcast: The People Dividend Podcast“The People Dividend” by Mike HorneThe Immunity to Change method by Robert Kegan and Lisa Lahey“The Science of Change” by Richard E. Boyatzis“supercommunicators” by Charles DuhiggLearn more about Dr. Laura on her website: https://drlaura.liveFor more resources, look into Dr. Laura's organizations: Canada Career CounsellingSynthesis Psychology

In today's deeply divided world—marked by polarized politics, global tensions, and fractured communities—is the aspiration for "wholeness" realistic or even desirable? In this thought-provoking episode of Integral Edge, Keith Martin-Smith sits down with executive coach and consciousness explorer David Arrell to explore what it truly means to become whole, both personally and collectively, amid ongoing division and conflict. The conversation begins by acknowledging an uncomfortable truth: human beings have always "othered" one another, creating deep divisions over seemingly trivial differences—illustrated vividly through the satirical example of Jonathan Swift's kingdoms warring over how to crack an egg. Yet, as Keith and David unravel this tendency, they uncover a profound evolutionary logic behind our innate impulse to distrust and exclude "others" outside our tribe. From early hunter-gatherer societies protecting themselves from existential threats to vast empires maintaining cohesion through myths and collective identities, "othering" is a deeply ingrained survival strategy. But does this mean we're doomed to division forever? David introduces the concept of "fictive kinship," where humans form collective bonds through shared stories, myths, and identities, enabling large-scale cooperation across cultures and history. However, as our conversation shifts into a developmental perspective, the limitations and dangers of this instinctual "othering" become clear, especially when we regress into lower stages of consciousness during times of intense polarization. Drawing upon Integral Theory and the developmental frameworks of Robert Kegan and Terri O'Fallon, Keith and David discuss how the same moral teachings—like the Golden Rule—can be interpreted very differently depending on one's developmental stage. At a rule-based, "Amber" stage, the injunction to "do unto others as you would have them do unto you" often devolves into revenge-driven cycles. Yet at a more rational, individualistic "Orange" stage, it fosters genuine reciprocity and empathy. The crucial insight here is understanding how easily individuals at higher stages can regress, or "shadow crash," into these simpler and more combative perspectives when emotionally triggered—particularly visible in political polarization around figures like Donald Trump. Join Keith Martin-Smith and David Arrell in this timely and deeply reflective conversation as they offer practical wisdom, inspiring perspectives, and genuine hope for navigating—and ultimately transcending—the divisions that mark our contemporary moment.

In this episode of the Personality Hacker podcast, Joel and Antonia break down Robert Kegan's Levels of Consciousness or Orders of the Mind into five stages of adult development.   https://personalityhacker.com 

Despite an explosion of frameworks, toolkits, and “best practices,” the success rate of organizational change hasn't improved in over a decade. For all the decks, comms plans, and transformation initiatives being sold, most companies still find themselves stuck, repeating the same plays and hoping for different results. This week, Rodney Evans welcomes back Michael Bungay Stanier—best-selling author, host of the new podcast Change Signal, and longtime friend of the show—who's on a mission to cut through the noise and find what actually works. They explore why change still feels so weird, the real leverage points for shifting individual and organizational behavior, and whether it's finally time to retire “change management” as we know it. Get a copy of Michael's change quadrants he talks about in this episode here: Michael's quadrants. Learn more about Michael: Follow him on LinkedIn Listen to his podcast, Change Signal. Subscribe to his newsletter, The Change Signal. Check out his website, MBS.works See his two prior appearances on our show, BNW Ep. 19 and BNW Ep. 75. -------------------------------- Want future of work insights and experiments you can try delivered to your inbox? ⁠Sign up here⁠. Follow us on your favorite platforms for more org design nerdery: ⁠LinkedIn⁠ ⁠Instagram⁠ -------------------------------- Mentioned references: Jason Fox's episode: AWWTR Ep. 17 John Kotter and the 8 Steps Depthfinding and the "Zones" Ron Heifetz Immunity to Change, book by Robert Kegan and Lisa Lahey Peter Block Winston Churchill "We Shape Our Buildings" Maslow's hierarchy of needs Larissa Conte: BNW Ep. 151 Katie Milkman: Change Signal Ep. 2 Caroline Webb: Change Signal Ep. 5 Timestamps: 00:00 Intro + Check-In: Do you have a non-work related goal that you're working towards right now? 9:59 Michael's journey to un-weird change 14:49 Michael's individual and organizational unlocks for change 21:24 Importance of strong foundational habits to succeed in change work 25:37 Understanding of power dynamics in change work 33:27 Outdated change mindsets to let go of 38:38 Rodney and Michael's takeaways 40:28 Wrap up: Leave us a review and share the show with your coworkers! Sound engineering and design by Taylor Marvin of ⁠⁠Coupe Studios⁠⁠.

On this episode Joe speaks with Heather about how to maximize your return on investment from conferences by attending with intention, identifying clear learning goals, and planning connections in advance. They dive into the “three threes” approach—three skills to learn, three tools to explore, and three people to meet—and emphasize the importance of self-awareness, authenticity, and pacing to make the most of any event. Link mentioned in the show: The Accounting Cornerstone Foundation Unveils Accounting Conference Scholarships TV and Movie Quote: Heather quoted Battlestar Galactica Joe quoted Much Ado about Nothing Book of the Week: Immunity to Change by Robert Kegan and Lisa Laskow Lahey Favorite Social Posts: Heather mentioned Melissa Miller Furgeson on LinkedIn Joe mentioned Blake Oliver on X/Twitter The Woodard Report Article of the Week: Top 21 Lessons from Serving on Conference Speaker Committees by Nancy McClelland Thank you to our show sponsor, Bill, your financial operations platform. Bill is the intelligent way to create and pay bills, send invoices, manage expenses, control budgets and access the credit your business needs to grow all in one platform. Learn more about the show and our sponsors at Woodard.com/podcast

Nous vivons tous sur la même planète, mais pourtant, en interagissant avec les autres, nous avons souvent cette impression de ne pas habiter la même réalité. Pourquoi nos visions du monde diffèrent-elles autant ? Le modèle des stades de la conscience offre une grille de lecture fascinante pour mieux comprendre ces écarts de perception. J'ai déjà abordé ce sujet dans le balado, mais cette fois, j'ai voulu aller plus loin en explorant le fonctionnement précis de ces stades et les transitions qui les relient. Pour cela, je me suis plongé dans The Evolving Self de Robert Kegan, un livre réputé pour sa complexité. Mon défi ? Le rendre accessible et concret, afin que nous puissions en tirer des enseignements applicables à notre quotidien. Nous verrons ensemble comment nous oscillons sans cesse entre deux besoins fondamentaux : ✔ La différenciation – le désir d'être unique, de s'affirmer en tant qu'individu. ✔ L'intégration – le besoin d'appartenance, de connexion aux autres. Ces deux forces semblent contradictoires, mais en progressant à travers les stades, nous développons une capacité à les réconcilier et les intégrer dans notre manière d'être. Enfin, je donnerai à cette exploration un angle pratique, en lien avec mon travail en orientation professionnelle, coaching et évaluation du potentiel. Comment ces stades influencent-ils nos choix de carrière ? Nos relations au travail ? Nos décisions stratégiques ? C'est ce que nous allons découvrir ensemble. Ordre du jour 0m23: Introduction 18m42: Présentation du livre 22m57: Révision des stades de Kegan 42m03: Mécanique des stades 1h02m26: Application pratique des stades 1h10m30: Réflexion personnelle Pour encore plus de détails, consulte la page web de l'épisode

(NOTAS Y ENLACES DEL CAPÍTULO AQUÍ: https://www.jaimerodriguezdesantiago.com/kaizen/226-inmunidad-al-cambio-y-ii-habitos-y-acuerdos-con-nosotros-mismos/)Hay grandes frases en la historia de la filosofía, pero seguramente pocas tan certeras como la del sabio que dijo lo siguiente:«Si ya saben como me pongo pa' que me invitan». Bromas aparte, uno de mis principales aprendizajes en la vida es que no hay mejor predictor de nuestro comportamiento futuro que nuestro comportamiento pasado.Y eso es, claro, porque nos cuesta cambiar. Incluso cuando realmente queremos hacerlo. No es que cambiar nos sea imposible, pero lo logramos muchas menos veces de las que nos proponemos. En ocasiones es porque nuestros hábitos nos dominan. Sin embargo, otras muchas veces es por algo más profundo y difícil de identificar: porque tenemos acuerdos con nosotros mismos de los que no somos del todo conscientes.Pero precisamente para eso estamos hoy aquí. Para hablar primero de nuestros hábitos y después de cómo hacernos conscientes de esos acuerdos que nos impiden cambiar y de cómo tratar de renegociarlos. Olé. ✉️ Suscríbete a la newsletter de kaizen aquí: https://www.jaimerodriguezdesantiago.com/newsletter❤️ ¿Te gusta kaizen? Apoya el podcast uniéndote a la Comunidad y accede a contenidos y ventajas exclusivas: https://www.jaimerodriguezdesantiago.com/comunidad-kaizen/

In this episode, the Jim and Trisha host guests Chris and Kurt from Brimstone coaching to engage in a deep conversation about leadership, self-awareness, and the mental models that shape our approach to work and relationships. They explore the importance of slowing down, reflecting, and questioning existing assumptions about what it means to be an effective leader. This episode wraps up with a powerful reminder: “You don't have to be as tired as you are.” Chris Godfredson and Kurt Bash have both come out of leadership and supervisory roles in a variety of business kind of contexts and then transitioned into church ministry where they have each led in a variety of contexts. They are the co-founders of Brimstone Coaching Group. Kurt Bush began his working career in the manufacturing world. He spent time working for a large manufacturing company in various roles over 10 years, with the majority of that time being spent in Human Resources and Production Supervision. He was then called out of that into seminary, and subsequently, full-time vocational ministry. Over the last 6 years, he has served and led churches in and through both minor and major changes, along with helping leaders establish a clear sense of “who we are together.” It's his work in his own life that fuels the passion that he feels in helping others do their own work. Chris Godfredsen made the transition a number of years ago from printing the news to telling the Good News. He has a growing understanding of Family Systems theory and Internal Family Systems, and he uses tools and resources that help people stop doing things that have hampered their growth for so long so they can live whole lives. These tools have also been helpful in conflict resolution work with co-workers and leadership teams. Conversation Overview Seeing to Change Mental Models of Leadership The Courage to Let Go Redefining Strong Leadership Testing Assumptions Invitation to Reflect Resources Brimstone Coaching Group An Everyone Culture: Becoming a Deliberately Developmental Organization by Robert Kegan and Lisa Lahey (the idea of doing two jobs is in the introduction and first chapter) Wholeheartedness: Busyness, Exhaustion and Healing the Divided Self by Chuck DeGroat Western Theological Seminary Brimstone Coaching podcast

Ruth Rochelle's life and career changed when, in 1979, she met Ariana Huffington and took part in the first Insight Seminar ever to happen in the United Kingdom.Ruth describes this moment as her invitation into self-reflection, the start of her career, and the time when she started to become the leader in her own life. In Café Royal on London's Regent Street, with 100 people – including some famous names – she had an experience she calls mindblowing and heart-opening, revealing deep truths that had previously been hidden from view.In this episode of the Coach's Journey Podcast, Ruth sheds light on the vast worlds of discovery that opened up to her following that first Insight Seminar, which propelled her into a career as a global facilitator and as a renowned expert on conscious leadership in teams and organisations.Ruth tells host Joey Owen how her remarkable appetite for learning and exploration also led her to study Internal Family Systems, which now underpins her work as an accredited master executive coach, IFS practitioner, systemic team coach and coaching constellations practitioner.In this episode, Ruth and Joey also talk about:Psychosynthesis and other therapeutic models that are harnessed by coachesHow to shift from protective behaviours in order to stand up in your authenticityThe ripple effect and how it can amplify both our limiting patterns and our effective onesThe way systems theory can help us stay in balance and adapt to our current truthRuth ends the podcast with a truly vital message about the parts of ourselves that we bring to interactions with others and the roles we all have to play in taking humanity forward.For more information about Ruth, visit https://www.ruthrochelle.com/For more information about host Joey Owen, visit http://www.joeyowencoaching.com/Read more about The Coach's Journey at www.thecoachsjourney.com.Music by My Good Man William: listen on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/artist/4KmeQUcTbeE31uFynHQLQgTo support the Coach's Journey, visit www.patreon.com/thecoachsjourney and to join the Coach's Journey Community visit www.thecoachsjourney.com/community.THINGS WE TALKED ABOUT THAT YOU MIGHT BE INTERESTED IN:- Ariana Huffington https://www.instagram.com/ariannahuff/?hl=en - Insight Seminars https://insightseminars.org/ - John Roger https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1988-08-14-vw-882-story.html - Russell Bishop https://russellbishop.com/about - Internal Family Systems https://ifs-institute.com/ - Psychosynthesis Coaching, Auburn Howard https://www.psychosynthesiscoaching.co.uk/ - NLP https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neuro-linguistic_programming - Results Unlimited https://www.upwork.com/agencies/1140793201640026112/ - Internal Family Systems Therapy by Richard Schwartz https://www.amazon.co.uk/Internal-Family-Systems-Therapy-Guilford/dp/1572302720 - The Leadership Circle https://leadershipcircle.com/leadership-assessment-tools/leadership-circle-profile/- Robert Kegan and the Immunity to Change model https://www.gse.harvard.edu/hgse100/story/changing-better#:~:text=Based%20on%2030%20years%20of,distortions%20that%20keep%20you%20from - AOAC master systems coach https://www.aoac.org/aoac-training-courses/ - Third Space https://www.thirdspace.london/ BIOGRAPHY FROM RUTHFor more than 25 years Ruth has been a coach – an executive and team coach, workshop facilitator, transformational coach and coach supervisor – with private clients and with organisations.Ruth is an Accredited Master Executive Coach with APECS, an IFS (Internal Family Systems) Practitioner with the IFS Institute and a Coaching Constellations Practitioner, and her clients have included creative professionals, start-up founders, senior managers, young emerging leaders, celebrities, coaches, and many more.Ruth supports her clients to create and achieve their visions, enrich their relationships, navigate changing circumstances, embark on new life directions, start and grow businesses, address specific challenges, experience greater wellbeing and connect to a meaningful purpose.

Subscribe, Rate, & Review on YouTube • Spotify • Apple Podcasts✨ About This EpisodeHow can we design virtuous technologies while acknowledging the complexity and unintended consequences of technological innovation?How can we foster curiosity, playfulness, and wonder in a world increasingly dominated by anxiety and technological determinism?This week on Future Fossils (as a teaser for the kind of conversations I am having for my upcoming spin-off Humans On The Loop), I meet with Stockholm-based transdisciplinary technologist, facilitator, complexity researcher, founder of The Psychedelic Society, and once upon a time the youngest-ever board member of Greenpeace UK, Stephen Reid to discuss the importance of taking a more values-driven approach to technology development. Stephen and I agree that it's crucial to consider the potential consequences of technological advancements and to promote a more thoughtful approach to innovation…but for the sake of playing with tension, he places more of an emphasis on our capacity for axiological design whereas I feel more of a need to point out that the rapid evolution of technology can outpace our ability to predict its consequences, troubling efforts to design an enduringly sustainable future. One thing we agree on, and model in this episode, is the value of deeper conversations about the role of technology in society…and how to integrate their transformative potentials.PS — I'm guest lecturing for Stephen's upcoming four-week course on Technological Metamodernism soon, along with Alexander Beiner and Hanzi Freinacht and Ellie Hain and Rufus Pollock. We'll engage critically with ideas like Daniel Schmachtenberger's axiological design and Vitalik Buterin's d/acc. As usual I'm probably the odd duck in this lineup, going hard on epistemic humility and the injunction of digital media to effect a transformation of the modern self-authoring ego into networked, permeable, transjective sub-agencies arising spontaneously and fluidly from fundamentally noncomputable interactions of rapid information flows... Anyway, the point is we'd love to have you join us and sink your teeth into these discussions! I absolutely promise to bring up voting cyborg ecotopes. Big thanks to Stephen for inviting me to play!PPS — Here is another really good, very different conversation between me and Stephen and Alistair Langer on Alistair's show Catalyzing Radical Systems Change.(Editorial Correction: It was Mike Tyson, not Muhammad Ali, who said "Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the mouth.")✨ Support This Work• Hire me as a consultant or advisor• Become a patron on Substack or Patreon• Help me find backers for Humans On The Loop• Buy the books we discuss from my Bookshop reading list• Buy original paintings and prints or commission new work• Join the conversation in the Holistic Technology & Wise Innovation and Future Fossils Discord servers• Buy the show's music on Bandcamp — intro “Olympus Mons” from the Martian Arts EP & outro “Sonnet A” from the Double-Edged Sword EP• Make one-off donations at @futurefossils on Venmo, $manfredmacx on CashApp, or @michaelgarfield on PayPal✨ Chapters(0:00:00-0:10:29) Stephen's Background and Interests in Technology and Metamodernism (0:10:29-0:18:03) Navigating the Complex Relationship Between Technology and Human Values (0:18:03-0:25:18) The Limits of Axiological Design and the Importance of Community Oversight (0:25:18-0:34:29) Defining and Defending Axiological Design (0:34:29-0:45:03) Exploring Alternative Governance Structures: Guilds and Rites of Passage (0:45:03-0:56:36) Vitalik Buterin's "Defensive Decentralized Accelerationism" (0:56:36-1:06:04) Integrating Humor and Recognizing Irony in the Technosphere(1:06:04-1:12:17) Recovering Awe, Curiosity, and Playfulness in a Tech-Saturated World (1:12:17- 1:12:56) Finding Lightness in the Face of Existential Questions (1:12:56-1:13:28) Exploring The Future and A Call to Action✨ MentionsIain McGilchrist, Daniel Schmachtenberger, Hanzi Freinacht, Josh Schrei, Ken Wilber, Vitalik Buterin, Bayo Akomolafe, Cory Doctorow, Nora Bateson, Dave Snowden, W. Brian Arthur, J. F. Martel, Stafford Beer, Rene Descartes, Bill Plotkin, Joe Edelman, Ellie Hain, Douglas Rushkoff, Robert Kegan, Aldous Huxley, Andrés Gomez Emilsson✨ Select Related Episodes (also available as a Spotify playlist)223 - Timothy Morton, 220 - Austin Wade-Smith219 - Joshua Schrei217 - Gregory Landua and Speaker John Ash214 - Megan Phipps, JF Martel, Phil Ford213 - Amber Case, Michael Zargham212 - Geoffrey West, Manfred Laubichler187 - Kevin Welch, David Hensley178 - Chris Ryan176 - Richard Doyle, Sophie Strand, Sam Gandy174 - Evan Snyder172 - Tyson Yunkaporta166 - Anna Riedl165 - Kevin Kelly163 - Toby Kiers, Brandon Quittem141 - Nora Bateson122 - Magenta Ceiba109 - Bruce Damer094 - Mark Nelson086 - Onyx Ashanti080 - George Dvorsky076 - Technology as Psychedelic Parenting066 - John Danaher060 - Sean Esbjörn-Hargens056 - Sophia Rokhlin051 - Daniel Schmachtenberger050 - Ayana Young042 - William Irwin Thompson017 - Tibet Sprague This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit michaelgarfield.substack.com/subscribe

Robert Kegan's five stages of adult development are analogous to the process of self-differentiation. Here's my take. Show Notes: Adult Development Theory: How Can Leaders Grow As Adults? Part 1 – Context Professionals How To Be an Adult: The 5 Stages of Adult Development (sourcesofinsight.com) Podcast - The Non-Anxious Leader (thenonanxiousleader.com) Subscribe to my weekly ⁠Two for Tuesday⁠ email newsletter.

Many organizations struggle to balance technical project demands with the human elements essential for successful change. This gap often leads to inefficiencies, low morale, and failed initiatives, despite thorough planning and structured processes. Ignoring the emotional aspects of teams prevents companies from unlocking their workforce's full potential. Integrating both technical and human sides of work, with a focus on consistent communication and emotional awareness, is crucial. Enabling this holistic approach helps organizations achieve dynamic processes that meet goals and foster a joyful, productive work environment. Agathe Daae-Qvale is an Integral Master Coach™ working in leadership development that focuses on both the human and tech sides of digital transformation. She works as a special advisor in the Norwegian public health care sector on new software technologies and their successful applications. In 2017, she founded TinkerBlue AS and later co-founded DoubleYou AS in an effort to unleash underused tech potential and skill sets among internationals in Norway. Agathe is proficient in industrial IT and process modeling and improvement, IT governance, IT strategy, IT operations, and product management. Her experience includes working with management consulting companies like EY, KPMG, and Sopra Steria. She has worked as a consulting director in the exhilarating growth phase of the industrial IT unicorn Cognite, which primarily focuses on industrial data and digitized product management. She has also served as Chief Development Officer for Cenium, responsible for product development and global distribution during the shift from local based to cloud based platform technology. ​In this episode Agathe shares insightful discussions on balancing the technical and human aspects of business, especially during times of change. She talks about her experiences and practical strategies for integrating emotional awareness into structured, technical environments. You'll also learn about the importance of consistent communication, the role of personal growth in effective change management, and how to motivate teams by recognizing and expanding their perceptions of possibilities.  "For change to happen, raise the awareness of possibilities --- that space of possibilities is crucial." - Agathe Daae-Qvale SUPERPOWER Notes: 01:21 - What she realized the time she first noticed the power of listening: It was not only about the words but very much about the sentiment and the capacity of both of us to open up for in that very moment  04:08 - What it means to be in a shared space: That moment when you are in a conversation; you're just completely paying attention to what's going on there  08:00 - The distinction between merely getting the work done and creating a meaningful, emotionally resonant shared space 17:10 - The crucial integration of human change management with technical change 21:21 - How creating a shared understanding and clear purpose within the organization is crucial for the successful adoption and implementation of new technologies and changes 25:16 - Here's how to achieve a shared understanding: The organization needs to be well aligned both vertically and horizontally. 29:07 - Achieve vertical and horizontal alignment in an organization: Important to give everyone a shared direction and the why as to what they're doing. 32:54 - What does effective change management require: In addition to communication, skill sets and competence in the company among coworkers and staff is super important. 37:56 - Making that lasting change and effect happen: Value, moral and a sense of entrepreneurship are also needed to make that lasting effect happen. 42:54 - Helpful tools for navigating change effectively: It's about listening to, first, myself and then start listening to others around me. 45:33 - Moving past the resistance in others: Have the respect for self and others and have them to focus on an outcome. 52:40 - Agathe's inspiring words: Keep opening up that space to keep expanding that shared space. Key Takeaways: "When we make change happen in technology, you can never go beyond what people actually perceive and what the masses perceive." - Agathe Daae-Qvale "I do think that the human side of change is not only a success factor, but it's a floor on which technical change stands most of the time." - Agathe Daae-Qvale "I do believe that the leadership is where to start [to get to that shared understanding] and then create an infrastructure and a team that can have the capacity and ability to make that happen, to follow up, to follow through with it." - Agathe Daae-Qvale "I realize that we all catch what we can according to our own skill sets, but if you want an organization to change the way they work or to change the products and services, it's super important to start with that education of people." - Agathe Daae-Qvale "The self is very often considered individual. If we are in a team, that sense of self, we can share that in a group. Then it becomes so much more powerful." - Agathe Daae-Qvale Notes/Mentions: Terri O'Fallon: https://www.terriofallon.com Robert Kegan:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Kegan Connect with Agathe Daae-Qvale: Website: https://www.digitizedproductmanagement.com/about Connect with Raquel Ark:   www.listeningalchemy.com Mobile: + 491732340722 contact@listeningalchemy.com  LinkedIn Podcast email: listeningsuperpower@gmail.com

“All growing up stages are the product of scientific investigation of the stages of growing up that people go through. And those are all defined in third person terms because they're the person or thing being spoken about. When we talk about the archaic stage or the magic stage or the mythic stage, if you look within right now, you can't see any of those stages. As a matter of fact, before we had this conversation, you had no idea that you had all these six to eight stages of growing up that you will go through. You didn't know anything about those because you can't see them. They're not first person or even second person phenomena. They're third person, the person or thing being spoken about.” So says Ken Wilber, whose work and intellect is difficult to describe. Throughout a long career—and the authoring of 20 books, including A Brief History of Everything, Grace and Grit, Sex, Ecology, Spirituality, and The Religion of Tomorrow, Wilber has put together what is essentially a synthesis of every psychological model of development. In fact, he locked himself away for years, writing every model down on pieces of yellow legal paper, and then knit them all together. I've written about Wilber's work at length in my newsletter, which is also called Pulling the Thread—I'll put links in the show notes—and I talk about his work on this show as well. Most recently, I talked about Ken Wilber with Nicole Churchill in our conversation about Spiral Dynamics. Wilber is a Spiral Dynamics wizard, though he uses it in aggregate with the work of other developmental thinkers, integrating the work of luminaries like Carol Gilligan, Robert Kegan, and others.  In today's conversation, we talk about Wilber's brand new book, Finding Radical Wholeness, which explores the five big processes we all undertake in our lives. In today's conversation, we mostly talked about two: Waking Up and Growing Up, which are often conflated. Wilber makes the case for why they are unrelated processes—and the essential nature of the latter. While Waking Up, or having a Satori experience is wonderful—and something that 60% of people report—we all need to grow up. Wilber and I spend most of today's conversation talking about our political environment from the standpoint of developmental psychology: Why we're so fractured, and what it will look like when the Integral Stage becomes the leading edge of culture and we learn how to include and transcend. I think this is fascinating, and reassuring, and excellent context for a moment that feels so out-of-control. MORE FROM KEN WILBER: Finding Radical Wholeness A Brief History of Everything Sex, Ecology Spirituality Trump and a Post-Truth World The Religion of Tomorrow Grace and Grit More books from Ken Wilber More from Pulling the Thread Podcast: “The Basics of Spiral Dynamics” with Nicole Churchill “Our Collective Psychological Development” with John Churchill More from Pulling the Thread Newsletter: Transcend and Include Embracing Nondual Thinking Right Doing Ascending and Descending States vs. Stages To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Every time something changes at work, someone's bound to be upset. Digital transformations take resources from analog teams; restructuring a department can take authority from one group and give it to another; removing a step from a workflow can eliminate a role altogether. Any change, including those meant to make things better, will create winners and losers and that's bound to kick up a hornet's nest of feelings. Here's the puzzling part: Despite years of research showing us that surfacing and processing these feelings is key to unlocking a company's ability to be adapt, many workplaces often treat emotions as taboo. They're messy, unpredictable, and nobody wants to touch them—even when ignoring them does more harm that good. Playing pretend isn't getting us anywhere. In this episode of At Work with The Ready, Rodney Evans and Sam Spurlin explore why we have negative feelings about big feelings and how it's holding our organizations back from evolving into the places they could be. We're on Youtube! An extended video version of this episode (with extra Rodney and Sam moments) is available to watch there. Mentioned references: Tabea's Meet The Ready post "unconsciously protecting the status quo": Immunity to Change, 2009 book by Robert Kegan and Lisa Laskow Lahey "protection state": On Point of Relationship podcast episode with Frederic Laloux "complicated vs complex": Brave New Work keynote The unpaid emotional labor expected of women at work, 2024 BBC article What Rodney said at SXSW last year: BNW 162: Live from SXSW with Brian Elliott Love the show? Leave us a review and share this episode with your coworkers! We're on LinkedIn! Follow Rodney, Sam and The Ready for more org design nerdery and join the conversation around episodes after they air. Looking for some help with your own transformation? Visit theready.com Want future of work insights and experiments you can try delivered to your inbox twice a month? Sign up for our newsletter. We want to hear from you. Send your thoughts and feedback to podcast@theready.com.

Memes: Roll Safe Think About It Meme - "So the first meme is a gentleman in a leather shirt who is standing outside of a store. Looks like he's on the street somewhere and he's got a nice little crisp part. He's giving very 90's New Jack City vibes... What he's doing is he's tapping on his temple and his head in a gesture that makes you think that what you're saying is like a good decision, or I thought about that."Conceited (the Rapper) Reaction Meme - "So the second one, it's this guy looking at the proverbial off-screen camera, so imagine The Office whenever they paused and looked at the screen... and he's pursing his lips because something that was just said does not resonate with him and he is using his face to express his displeasure, concern, question about what was said."Follow us on Instagram @memesmetaphorsandmagic to view the meme(s) for this episode.Metaphors:TIME IS MONEY. HUMAN BEINGS ARE DIAMONDS IN THE ROUGH.THE LOGIC BEHIND OUR THINKING IS A CVS RECEIPT. (This metaphor can be related to another complex metaphor: ARGUMENTS ARE BUILDINGS.)LEARNING/LIFE IS A JOURNEY.Underlying, or primary, metaphors:ACTION IS SELF-PROPELLED MOTION.MORE/POSITIVE/POWERFUL IS UP.OPPORTUNITIES ARE RESOURCES.TIME IS A RESOURCE.PERSISTING IS ERECTNESS.CONSIDERING IS WEIGHING.Magic:7 Lifepath Number (Numerology)8 Expression Number (Numerology)Context® (Gallup CliftonStrengths®)Futuristic® (Gallup CliftonStrengths®)Relator® (Gallup CliftonStrengths®)Libra (Astrology)ENTJ Myers Briggs Type Support and Connect with Lauren!The Leadership Educator Podcast with Professors Lauren Bullock and Dan Jenkins - Listen and subscribe for more gems! Connect with Lauren on LinkedInPop Culture:#HoodDocumentaryThe Office#ThanksgivingClapback of 2015Wild 'N OutResources:Black AF History: The Un-Whitewashed Story of America by Michael Harriot Conversations in Black: On Power, Politics, and Leadership by Ed GordonThe Dollop PodcastImmunity to Change: How to Overcome It and Unlock the Potential in Yourself and Your Organization by Robert Kegan and Lisa Laskow Lahey Principles: Life and Work by Ray Dalio Seven Languages for Transformation: How the Way We Talk Can Change the Way We Work by Robert Kegan and Lisa Laskow Lahey The Untethered Soul: The Journey Beyond Yourself by Michael SingerWhat Got You Here Won't Get You There by Marshall GoldsmithLearn more about your personal year number with this free resource I made especially for you! 

With a background spanning several continents and industries, my guest, Aneace Haddad, brings a global perspective, combining leadership models from experts like Jim Collins, Patrick Lencioni, Robert Kegan, and Richard Barrett with real-world, cross-cultural experiences. Aneace is a McKinsey-certified transformational leadership facilitator with over 1,800 hours of certified coaching, impacting over 300 individual senior leaders and aiding 100 top teams to realize their full potential. His global experience spans 15 diverse industries, including technology, banking, insurance, energy, mining, and manufacturing across 10 countries. Join us as we explore the concept of transformational leadership. To learn more about Aneace, visit www.aneace.com

Welcome to the new year! We can't believe it's already 2024, yet here we are, filled with fresh hope, revitalized dreams, and new ways of unlocking your undeniable power and potential.To start the year, your host Sharon Spano shares seven winning strategies for giving yourself the best head start in 2024. Spoiler alert: it doesn't involve New Year's resolutions! Instead, Sharon urges us to adopt a more careful mindset of reflection as we strive to make this year better than the last. Find out why Sharon doesn't believe in New Year's resolutions and hear about the importance of reflection, embracing change, being comfortable with discomfort, and making meaning of the past to avoid pitfalls in the future. You'll learn how to develop a plan for the year ahead, identify key initiatives, and sign up for the Potential Unleashed Masterclass. We also share an exciting Other Side of Potential announcement, so be sure to stay tuned! What you'll learn about in this episode: What you can do to start your year in the best possible way. Why Sharon doesn't believe in New Year's resolutions.Assessing our “intolerables” – the Rhonda Nelson process. The importance of (positive) reflection and embracing change. How to go about making small incremental changes (and why it matters to do so).Stepping out of your comfort zone and getting comfortable with discomfort. Making meaning of the past to let go of everything that doesn't serve you. The magic of constellation work and an exciting announcement for 2024! Practical advice for developing a plan. Identifying key initiatives to tackle this year. The Potential Unleashed Masterclass and other ways to connect and learn with Sharon. Transcript: HereAdditional Resources:Book a Free Consultation with Sharon: go.oncehub.com/meetwithsharonspano Sign Up for Potential Unleashed: sharonspanoworkshops.com/potentialunleashed-group Links Mentioned:Ronda Nelson: https://www.rondanelson.com/ Robert Kegan: https://www.gse.harvard.edu/directory/faculty/robert-kegan  Slack: https://slack.com/ Voxer: https://www.voxer.com/ Sharon Spano:Website: sharonspano.comFacebook: facebook.com/SharonSpanoPHDInstagram: instagram.com/drsharonspano/LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/sharonspano/Book: thetimemoneybook.comContact: sharon@sharonspano.comX: twitter.com/SharonSpanoThe Other Side of Potential Podcast: sharonspano.com/podcast/

On our final episode of Season 6, we're speaking with Dan Hunt, co-founder of Foster, about deliberately developmental organizations, how we can help individuals within an organization grow individually while also growing together, and some practical strategies for overcoming common challenges faced in decentralized organizations.Foster is a collaborative organization for editorial and writing support, and also deeply involved in several other communities across the crypto and web3 space where he's helped facilitate the human and relational side of each organization.  This episode contains equal parts theoretical and philosophical principles, as well as practical and actionable steps any leader or member of an organization can take to strengthen the culture within their organization. COLLECT THIS EPISODEhttps://www.rehashweb3.xyz/ FOLLOW USRehash: https://twitter.com/rehashweb3Diana: https://twitter.com/ddwchenDan: https://twitter.com/dan2huntFoster: https://twitter.com/0xFoster LINKSDan's Substack: danhunt.substack.com An Everyone Culture: Becoming a Deliberately Developmental Organization by Robert Kegan: https://www.amazon.com/Everyone-Culture-Deliberately-Developmental-Organization/dp/1625278624Reinventing Organizations by Frederic Laloux: https://www.amazon.com/Reinventing-Organizations-Frederic-Laloux/dp/2960133501/ref=sr_1_1?hvadid=580766137634&hvdev=c&hvlocphy=9033780&hvnetw=g&hvqmt=e&hvrand=11010857034710310604&hvtargid=kwd-73133255316&hydadcr=21905_13324233&keywords=reinventing+organizations&qid=1703114589&sr=8-1 TIMESTAMPS0:00 Intro2:40 Common challenges in decentralized organizations5:37 How to spot a cult leader9:10 Becoming ourselves, together13:13 Conflict resolution in DAOs19:04 Resources for communicating and organizing better24:10 The deliberately developmental organization framework31:56 Best practices for developing values in an organization38:23 Best way to scale a deliberately developmental organization43:50 Follow Dan DISCLAIMER: The information in this video is the opinion of the speaker(s) only and is for informational purposes only. You should not construe it as investment advice, tax advice, or legal advice, and it does not represent any entity's opinion but those of the speaker(s). For investment or legal advice, please seek a duly licensed professional.

Embracing diversity, equity, and inclusion (DEI) isn't about isolated targets; it needs to be intertwined into every action we take as an organization. The broccoli gets bakes into the casserole to make the whole better and healthier. Maria Morukian works with with people who, whether it's their formal or informal role, lead the systemic change for diversity, equity and inclusion. She also works with organisations to really embed the concepts of equity, justice and inclusion into the organizational fabric. She shares the personal background that shaped her worldview and brought her to this work. Drawing from her multicultural background and experience in systemic change work, Maria gives her perspective on how to embed DEI into the fabric of an organization. and – sorry if you haven't had dinner yet – we bring in some good cooking metaphors to elucidate the process. She brings up the interesting concept of 'Immunity to Change,' (developed by Lisa Lahey and Robert Kegan) highlighting that DEI isn't merely a technical problem solvable by one-off decisions. DEI isn't about quick fixes but complex, adaptive challenges: hard to identify, which makes them easy to deny. It's more like untangling a knot, requiring us to uncover conflicting commitments in organizational structures and cultures. Pulling back the curtain and asking: what is it that is causing these actions or inactions that are impeding progress toward what we say we want? Elements of organizational structure and culture are reinforced and perpetuated not only because they're easier and better known, but also because they tend to serve a certain segment of the population. Uncovering hidden competing commitments in how organizations are set up and run means recognizing our subconscious actions and beliefs that may inadvertently create an immunity to much-needed change. A workaround that Maria proposes is micro-change: nudges to challenge existing assumptions and initiate change, inch by inch, bite by bite, adding up to big impact. We also delve with Maria into treating DEI as a fundamental part of making big decisions. This means, rather than to treat DEI actions like separate goals, or an ‘add on' if we happen to have any space (or budget) left, to integrate DEI values into the core of business strategy. Which is where they belong, and have their true impact and benefit. How are you embedding DEI principles into your organization? What would it mean to uncover potentially competing commitments – and integrate them instead? More about Maria Morukian: LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/maria-morukian/ Website MSM Consulting https://msmglobalconsulting.com/about-maria-morukian/ Podcast: Culture Stew https://open.spotify.com/show/3typAAapfJZ14VL6N811Ob And more about Immunity to Change https://mindsatwork.com/who-we-are/ More about us: Lisa Dempsey – https://www.linkedin.com/in/lisakdempsey - https://www.leadershiplabs.eu Marjolijn Vlug – https://www.linkedin.com/in/marjolijnvlug - https://www.marjolijnvlug.nl/ Reach us both at PeopleImpactPodcast@gmail.com

In episode 11 we are introducing our new every other week format. Leadership from the Balcony was started to raise awareness of leadership concepts in an effort to help leaders continue to grow and develop on their leadership journey. Every other week we'll be highlighting a resource that has impacted us, and we feel will be beneficial to you. These episodes will be shorter and aren't seeking to inform you of all the details and findings in the resource but to raise your awareness and pique your interest in what's out there. This week we are reviewing Immunity to Change by Robert Kegan and Lisa Lahey, one of the most impacting books we have read on our leadership journey. Resources in this episode Immunity to Change: How to Overcome It and Unlock the Potential in Yourself and Your Organization (Leadership for the Common Good) – Robert Kegan and Lisa Laskow Lahey The Practice of Adaptive Leadership: Tools and Tactics for Changing Your Organization and the World – Ronald Heifetz, Alexander Grashow, and Marty Linsky (As an Amazon Associate, we earn commissions from qualifying purchases made through the Amazon links above.) To stay informed and sign up for our newsletter click HERE Contact us HERE to: Send us your comments Tell us how your Leadership Challenge experience went Or to let us know about specific topics you would like us to discuss on future podcasts

In episode 10 we are taking a deep dive into personal transformation as we explore the groundbreaking Immunity to Change process by Robert Kegan and Lisa Lahey. This is a powerful yet accessible tool for any leader to utilize in their journey towards unlocking their potential and embracing change with open arms. Resources in this episode Immunity to Change: How to Overcome It and Unlock the Potential in Yourself and Your Organization (Leadership for the Common Good) – Robert Kegan and Lisa Laskow Lahey An Everyone Culture: Becoming a Deliberately Developmental Organization – Robert Kegan and Lisa Laskow Lahey Good to Great: Why Some Companies Make the Leap and Others Don't – Jim Collins Multipliers: How the Best Leaders Make Everyone Smarter – Liz Wiseman (As an Amazon Associate, we earn commissions from qualifying purchases made through the Amazon links above.) To stay informed and sign up for our newsletter click HERE Contact us HERE to: Send us your comments Tell us how your Leadership Challenge experience went Or to let us know about specific topics you would like us to discuss on future podcasts

Galen Hair talks with psychologist Dr. Robert Kegan about the process of 'immunity to change' and how limiting beliefs hinder meaningful transformation. Kegan uses the example of unsuccessful dieting to underline the importance of shifting mindsets, not just behaviors. He illustrates common leadership issues in initiating change, like arrogance or insecurity, and how these can lead to employee attrition. He advises that those who persist through uncomfortable personal growth phases will ultimately enjoy substantial personal and professional advancements. Who's the Guest? Dr. Robert Kegan is a professor at Harvard University and a world-renowned contributor to the field of development and transformation. He's a recipient of numerous honorary degrees and awards and has over forty years of research, teaching, writing, and professional practice that influenced leadership development, executive coaching, and culture-change management across the globe.   Highlights The turning point in Dr. Kegan's research was recognizing that change challenges related to individuals' underlying mindset, not just specific skills or behavior. Dr. Kegan identifies a dichotomy that exists: people who are overly kind or overly concerned about how others think of them, and people who are too hard on their teams. Younger generations like millennials, see learning as a lifelong process rather than a phase of life. There is a difference between presenting change to people who are open and prepared for it as opposed to those who aren't. Your destiny is to become a bigger and better version of yourself.  Episode Resources Connect with Galen M. Hair https://insuranceclaimhq.com hair@hairshunnarah.com Connect with Dr. Robert Kegan https://www.amazon.com/Immunity-Change-Potential-Organization-Leadership/dp/1422117367  

In today's episode:  I turn the conversational tables on myself and explore new questions I have for artists in upcoming episodes.   Links mentioned:   Portrait Studio: Reginakelly.com Dalva, by Jim Harrison Legends of the Fall, by Jim Harrison The Four Agreements, by Don Miguel Ruiz Immunity to Change, by Robert Kegan (apologies, I called him Richard during the show!) Gluten Free Teff Bread Recipe Rucking Outlive, by Peter Attia, M.D. Doi Suthep Monk Trail, Chiang Mai Thailand ASMR  Sungenomics - Custom Probiotics   Thank you for listening. Please share and enjoy :)

Managing change is a balancing act between creating new neural pathways and improving emotional intelligence to be aware of how you respond to change.In this episode, Jamie Hopkins, Managing Partner of Wealth Solutions, and Ana Trujillo Limón, Director, Coaching and Advisor Content, talk about change management with the president of CohereUs Consulting, Jim LoPresti, Ph.D., PCC. Dr. Jim LoPresti shares his journey to becoming a coach with a background in change management and emotional intelligence, explains how neuroplasticity can help advisors and firms with change management, and discusses the benefits journaling has on EQ.Dr. James LoPresti discusses: His inspiring journey to becoming a renowned coach The invaluable lessons of discipline acquired through his experience as a prolific textbook writerThe transformative potential of neuroplasticity in aiding advisors and firms with change management and achieving successful DEIB programsThe crucial role of emotional intelligence in navigating change and managing its complexitiesHis top recommended tool for enhancing emotional intelligenceEffective self-management techniques to gracefully navigate the ebbs and flows of emotionsAnd much more!Resources:I Am A Sea Monster by Jim LoPresti and Andiene LoprestiImmunity to Change by Robert Kegan and Lisa Laskow LaheyConnect with Jamie Hopkins and Ana Trujillo Limón: Carson Group LLCLinkedIn: Jamie HopkinsLinkedIn: Ana Trujillo LimónConnect with Jim LoPresti:CoherUs ConsultingLinkedIn: Jim LoPrestijimlopresti@gmail.comAbout our Guest: Jim LoPresti, Ph.D., PCC founded CohereUs Consulting in 2005. Dr. Jim LoPresti is a seasoned professional who seamlessly navigates the corporate and academic domains, combining theory and practice in his work. With extensive experience in coaching and consulting, he has successfully guided middle to upper-level managers in enhancing emotional intelligence and building high-performance teams across international locations such as France, Germany, Belgium, The Netherlands, Italy, and Singapore. Jim's expertise extends to diverse industries, including multinational corporations, academia, information technology, and government. He remains at the forefront of his field by continuously refining his approaches, particularly in the emerging area of neuroplasticity, leveraging new insights to facilitate transformative change. He is a sought-after speaker, delivering seminars on emotional/social intelligence, neuroscience of leadership, conflict negotiation, cultural transformation, strategic planning, team building, virtual team building, workplace diversity, senior management alignment, and organizational polarities. As an ICF certified professional coach, Jim's comprehensive skill set and certifications underscore his exceptional abilities and adaptability in the coaching and consulting realm.

In this episode, I talk to Dr. Candace Givens. Candace is a systems engineer and a vice president at Northrop Grumman who has over 25 years of experience in the aerospace and defense industry. You'll hear Candace talk about the unique opportunities she has had and how she has navigated the challenges she has faced as a woman and a woman of color.  Candace emphasizes the importance of taking chances and risks and learning from different people to become the best leader possible.In this episode:The willingness to take chances and risks is what makes a great leaderThe importance of balance - What is really important in your life?Unique challenges as a woman of color in the workforceLearning from failureLearning to navigate career changes and transitionsAnd more!Power Presence Academy: Practical Wisdom for Leaders is the go-to podcast for anyone who leads. Your host is Janet Ioli, leadership and human development expert, sought-after coach and advisor to global executives, and former executive with experience in four Fortune 100 companies. She helps leaders ground themselves with confidence, connection, and purpose and learn to lead with Less Ego, More Soul.Resource Links:Learn more about Candace's current read  The Fear of Failure: How To Become An Action Taker, Stop Worrying, Overcome Procrastination and Perfectionism by Wilda HaleLearn more about the book I recommended Immunity to Change: How to Overcome It and Unlock the Potential in Yourself and Your Organization (Leadership for the Common Good) by Robert Kegan and Lisa Laskow LaheyIf you want to become more grounded, confident, and aligned with your deeper values in just 21 days. Check out my book Less Ego, More Soul: A Modern Reinvention Guide for Women.If you enjoyed this episode, please leave a review on Apple Podcasts.  Select “Listen in Apple Podcasts,” then choose the “Ratings & Reviews” tab to share what you think.Connect with today's guest on LinkedIn: Candace GivensConnect with Janet Ioli:Website: janetioli.comLinkedin: Janet IoliInstagram: @janetioliJanet is the founder of Power Presence Academy. She helps leaders ground themselves with confidence, connection, and purpose and lead with Less Ego, More Soul.

Episode Notes Resources mentioned in this episode: Books Change Leadership: A Practical Guide to Transforming Our Schools by Tony Wagner, Robert Kegan, Lisa Laskow Lahey, Deborah Helsing, Harriette Thurber Rasmussen, Richard W Lemons, Jude Garnier, Annie Howell What's Worth Fighting For in the Principalship by Michael Fullan The Moral Imperative of School Leadership by Michael Fullan The Six Secrets of Change: What the Best Leaders Do to Help Their Organizations Survive andThrive by Michael Fullan Online resources National Equity Project Leading for Equity Framework National School Reform Faculty Protocols Center For Adaptive Schools Thinking Collaborative

Why is making long-lasting, meaningful change so difficult even if you have both the desire and motivation to do so?  Did you know that you have a natural immunity to change? In this episode, I talk with Dr. Lisa Lahey to find out more about why making desired changes is so difficult. Dr. Lahey explains what she calls “Immunity to Change™” and we talk about how we can bypass this built-in immunity and become more successful in making the lasting changes we desire.Dr. Lahey is the co-founder of Minds at Work and co-author of the book Immunity to Change: How to Overcome It and Unlock the Potential in Yourself and Your Organization (Leadership for the Common Good). Dr. Lahey is a renowned scholar in the field of human development and faculty member at the Harvard Graduate School of Education.In this episode:Who is the authentic “you” and how to stay true to that part of yourselfThe concept of Immunity to Change™The power of being vulnerableSelf-protective goals that are not necessarily serving usHow to uncover and challenge your own faulty assumptionsReal-life examples of immunity to changeAnd more!Power Presence Academy: Practical Wisdom for Leaders is the go-to podcast for anyone who leads. Your host is Janet Ioli, leadership and human development expert, sought-after coach and advisor to global executives, and former executive with experience in four Fortune 100 companies. She helps leaders ground themselves with confidence, connection, and purpose and learn to lead with Less Ego, More Soul.Resource Links:Lisa Lahey and Robert Kegan's book Immunity to Change: How to Overcome It and Unlock the Potential in Yourself and Your Organization (Leadership for the Common Good)Find all about Lisa's other books hereTo learn more about the Immunity to Change™ methodology visit Minds at WorkIf you want to become more grounded, confident, and aligned with your deeper values in just 21 days. Check out my book Less Ego, More Soul: A Modern Reinvention Guide for Women.If you enjoyed this episode, please leave a review on Apple Podcasts.  Select “Listen in Apple Podcasts,” then choose the “Ratings & Reviews” tab to share what you think.  Connect with today's guest on LinkedIn: Lisa LaheyConnect with Janet Ioli:Website: janetioli.comLinkedin: Janet IoliInstagram: @janetioliJanet is the founder of Power Presence Academy. She helps leaders ground themselves with confidence, connection, and purpose and lead with Less Ego, More Soul.

Bernadette Wesley's work is all about bridging the world of inner development with the world of being in an organisation together. We talk about Deliberately Developmental Organisations (DDOs); self-organisation and why changing structures is not enough; the Inner Development Goals (IDGs); and three practices that Bernadette has found particularly powerful: Peer Learning Spaces, Immunity to Change Maps, and Emotional Freedom Technique (EFT) Tapping. Bernadette is an Associate Partner with Fraendi, and is the Coordinator for the Inner Development Goals (IDG) Hub in Porto, Portugal, centering on Adult Development in SDG oriented organisations. Resources: An overview of being a Deliberately Developmental Organisation (DDO) Learn more about Peer Learning Spaces Experiential Guide: Emotional Freedom Technique (EFT) Tapping “Organizational Adaptability and Resilience: The Invisible Culture”, an article by Bernadette Wesley Learn more about Fraendi

Good day and good day! Welcome to episode 64 of The Equity Experience Podcast! In this podcast, we have a conversation with Dr. Kris DeFilippis about the topics of disproportionality and root cause analysis. One of the common concerns for people committed to educational equity work is resolving disproportionalities. Dr. Kris does a great job of explaining how disproportionality manifests within schools, along with suggesting resources for school leaders to consider in doing disproportionality work. We explore the following the topics: Defining disproportionality and the importance of this concept The relationship between disproportionality and educational equity/inequity Ways that school leaders may identify disproportionalities within school data Strategies and resources for school leaders who are intentional about remedying disproportionalities Dr. Kris also suggests the following book titles as additional resources: The Person You Mean to Be: How Good People Fight Bias by Dolly Chugh Race Talk and the Conspiracy of Silence: Understanding and Facilitating Difficult Dialogues on Race by Derald Wing Sue Leadership on the Line: Staying Alive Through the Dangers of Leading by Marty Linsky and Ronald Heifetz An Everyone Culture: Becoming a Deliberately Developmental Organization by Robert Kegan, Lisa Laskow Lahey, & Matthew Miller Learning in a Burning House: Educational Inequality, Ideology, and (Dis)Integration by Sonya Douglass Horsford For additional resources with this podcast, visit the following link: Episode 64 Podcast Learning Resource Guide by Dr. Karla Manning **************************************************************************************** The Equity Experience Podcast is curated and hosted by Dr. Karla Manning, Founder of The Equity Leadership Group, LLC. We are a team of educators and researchers dedicated to helping educators and school leaders achieve educational equity and inclusion. The Equity Leadership Group offers customized training, leadership coaching, strategy planning services, and needs assessment services. Schedule a complimentary discovery call today! https://calendly.com/karlamanning/discoverycall20mins or visit www.equityleadershipgroup.com for more information. --- Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/karla958/support

Why is it so hard for us to break patterns that are keeping us from our goals? In this episode, Susan and Laura discuss and discover the ways in which we as humans and artists can navigate lasting positive change. They dive into the powerful process and book “Immunity to Change,” by Robert Kegan and Lisa Laskow Lahey, which unravels the concept of change and specifically how to close the gap between aspiration/good intention and actual behavior shifts. Susan and Laura discover that when experimenting with our own paths to change, remaining open and curious, not jumping to problem solving, and trusting the process can help. And so can a game of canasta every now and then.

Around January 1, we set goals that we intend to keep. But most of us break these vows before the month is over – why? What's the real reason people won't change? And how can we use Stoicism and modern psychology to start?To truly be free and move forward, we need to cultivate helpful thoughts and let go of unhelpful ones. This is how we become resilient and learn to flow with life instead of fighting it. But what if you're not even aware of your unhelpful thoughts? I've talked about different ways to uncover your blind spots on this podcast, and today you'll learn about a new one from Harvard's Robert Kegan and Lisa Laskow Lahey, authors of the book Immunity to Change. sarahmikutel.com

What is something you really want to change? Do you believe you can do it? In this solo episode, I'll share my 4-step process for successfully making any change in your life, professionally and personally. ~ WE'LL DISCUSS ~ How to change by learning to advocate When you need to change your behavior and when you need to change yourself How to collect evidence to prove you can make the change How to find a different story to tell yourself in order to believe you can do it Book mentioned: Atomic Habits by James Clear Immunity to Change by Robert Kegan and Lisa Lahey   Stay Connected with Heather: To schedule a call with Heather, click here  To follow Heather on Instagram, click here To subscribe to Heather's 3Q newsletter, click here To request a transcript of this episode, email operations@heatherhansenpresents.com    

Advancing as a product leader requires new skills and a new mindset. Ken Norton is an executive coach who works with some of the top people in product to help them get unstuck and find creativity again in their approach to problems and their careers. After 14 years as a Product Manager at Google, Ken brings deep experience in leadership and shares with us the lessons he most often offers his clients to unlock growth. Join us.—Thank you to our wonderful sponsors for making this episode possible:• Amplitude: https://amplitude.com/• Lenny’s Job Board: https://www.lennysjobs.com/talent• Unit: https://unit.co/lenny—Where to find Ken Norton:• Twitter: https://twitter.com/kennethn• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kennethnorton/• Product Leadership Coaching: https://www.bringthedonuts.com/coaching/—Where to find Lenny:• Twitter: https://twitter.com/lennysan• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/—Books and Resources Recommended By Ken: • Dare To Lead by Brene Brown  • 15 Commitments of Conscious Leadership • Mastering Leadership by Bob Anderson • Immunity to Change by Robert Kegan • Stop Telling Women They Have Imposter Syndrome • Innovator’s Dilemma by Clayton Christensen  —In this episode, learn:[00:00] What to expect in this episode with Ken Norton[03:10] Why Ken will never get tired of donuts[05:05] Ken’s career path and what he does with executive coaching now[08:00] What Ken learned from his own executive coach[12:02] Driving a car and the metaphor of learning a new skill[16:20] How Ken’s helping leaders shift their mindset[19:41] Creative vs reactive leadership mindset[22:15] How your underlying beliefs impact your leadership style[33:50] Mindset and authenticity and their role within leadership[39:00] What you can do if you can’t spend a lot on coaching[42:05] Resources Ken recommends (linked in notes)[44:22] Biggest blindspots people have[48:10] Why doing the hard thing, may be the best thing[49:20] What to do with imposter syndrome[58:40] Ways to find a coach[1:01:03] 10x vs 10%[1:05:35] Ken’s one piece of advice for hiring a product manager[1:13:00] How to find Ken Get full access to Lenny's Newsletter at www.lennysnewsletter.com/subscribe

What is employee experience, and how does it affect the downstream user experience? Our guest today is Jen Briselli, chief design strategy officer at Mad*Pow. You'll learn about the components of employee experience, why organizations should care to improve it, how to map the ecosystem through a service design lens, and more.Podcast feed: subscribe to https://feeds.simplecast.com/4MvgQ73R in your favorite podcast app, and follow us on iTunes, Stitcher, or Google Podcasts.Show NotesMad*Pow – a strategic design consultancyEleni Stathoulis – director of design at Mad*PowUserlist – Jane's SaaS productReinventing Organizations – a book by Fredrick LalouxAn Everyone Culture – a book by Robert Kegan and Lisa Laskow LaheyFollow Jen on LinkedInThis episode is brought to you by Zeplin. Design tools can do almost anything, and with Zeplin they can go even further. Stop spending your time preparing design files for your developers and your PMs. Let Zeplin do it for you! Show user journeys, organize screens, highlight components automatically. See how you can go from design to production faster at zeplin.io.Interested in sponsoring an episode? Learn more here.Leave a ReviewReviews are hugely important because they help new people discover this podcast. If you enjoyed listening to this episode, please leave a review on iTunes. Here's how.