Podcasts about Stanfords

How green is your city? And what can we learn from the international urban metropolises that are bringing inviting nature back? Last week, Wild Cities was published, and Emma was invited to join author Chris Fitch at Stanfords bookstore in Bristol to chat about the book. We chatted about fast-tracking ancient forests, gardens in skyscrapers, beavers, birdwatching and, of course, asked, 'What one good thing have you done for the planet this week?' Send us a voice note listener question (via Instagram @forwhatitsearthpodcast or email forwhatitsearthpod@gmail.com) for your chance to win a Wild Cities seed bomb packet!  Thank you to Chris, Stanfords, and Harper Collins for putting the event on and for letting us record the evening for a bonus episode of the podcast.    Get in touch We're on Instagram, Bluesky, and email forwhatitsearthpod@gmail.com. Send us your Listener Questions and weekly One Good Thing For The Planet.   Support the show: Help us cover our running costs with a donation through Ko-fi or grab an organic cotton FWIE tee. & subscribe so you never miss an episode! For What It's Earth is hosted and produced by Emma Brisdion and Sophie Pavelle, and edited and mixed by Mark Skinner (2024).

On the show this week, I'm talking to Aube Rey Lescure, author of the mesmerising, sweeping novel, River East, River West. If you've been listening to the podcast for a while, you will probably know I love a family drama, inter-generational novel, especially one that has a dual timeline. River East, River West is exactly that as we follow teenager, Alva, navigating her American-Chinese dual heritage identity in modern china while living with her American mother, Sloane, who is adamant she wants to stay. We also meet her step father, Lu Fang who is a man of secrets, complexities and a deep pain and trauma he hides from the world.Aube Rey Lescure is a French-Chinese-American writer. She grew up between France, northern China, and Shanghai, and graduated from Yale University in 2015. She is the co-author and translator of two books on Chinese politics and economics. Aube's debut novel, River East, River West has been shortlisted for the Women's Prize for Fiction, the Maya Angelou Book Award, and the Stanfords' Fiction with a Sense of Place Award----I hope you loved listening to this episode and found things that will stay with you. I'd love to hear from you, so please do reach out on social media and don't forget to like, subscribe and leave a review as it can really help. If you're feeling extra generous, please consider buying me a "coffee" so I can keep putting great conversations like this out into the world:https://ko-fi.com/readwithsamiaSupport the show

While a cadet at the Air Force Academy, Jason Kim '99 experienced the “pedestal effect” and learned the importance of curiosity, compassion, trust and mutual respect.   SUMMARY Jason Kim, a USFA class of '99 and CEO of Firefly Aerospace, discussed his leadership journey and experiences. He emphasized the importance of curiosity, compassion, and mutual respect in leadership. Jason shared his upbringing in Richardson, Texas, and his parents' influence. He recounted his time at the Air Force Academy, highlighting the humbling experience of being among top cadets and the value of building trust. Jason detailed his career path, including roles at Boeing, Raytheon, and Northrop Grumman, and his MBA from UCLA. He stressed the importance of giving back to the Air Force Academy and the Space Force.   OUR FAVORITE QUOTES "I think just being curious and being an active listener and asking questions and listening to other people, sometimes people want to vent, or sometimes people want to just be heard or have a voice, or some, most of the time, people just have good ideas." "And so I would just say, just be curious, what did I miss? Did you miss something? Did we both miss something? If you get all those great ideas and you share it amongst different people from different backgrounds and walks of life, you don't miss as much, you know, and you're just bet off better off, you'll have a better solution." "Building that trust, you know, with your your your teams, that's extremely empowering and motivating when you trust someone else, and they trust you, and you can go much, much further when you build that trust up." "We got this drilled into us, and we didn't even know at the time how important it was. But you know, building that trust, you know, with your your your teams, that's extremely empowering and motivating when you trust someone else, and they trust you, and you can go much, much further when you build that trust up." "And then the last thing I would say is, I think we were one of the first classes that had non commissioned officers alongside with AOCs that were there to teach us about mutual respect, about mutual respect between officers and non commissioned officers. And I think that went a long ways for for all of us, because, you know, once we went to the real Air Force, you know, we were going to lead a lot of officers and NCOs, and getting that kind of exposure early on was helpful, but also learning about mutual respect, that's something that is extremely important in any work setting that you're in."     SHARE THIS EPISODE FACEBOOK  |  LINKEDIN      CHAPTERS 00:00:  Introduction and Background 02:24:  Welcome to Long Leu Leadership 07:42:  Early Inspirations and Motivations 10:56:  Discovering the Air Force Academy 16:00:  Memorable Experiences at the Academy 23:26:  Leadership Lessons Learned 26:32:  Leadership: Curiosity, Compassion, and Mutual Respect 28:14:  Startup Journey: Taking Risks and Minimizing Regrets 30:07:  Leadership Lessons: MBA and Personal Growth 32:05:  Startup Experience: Joining and Growing a Company 36:18:  Family and Risk-Taking: Lessons from Parents 39:36:  Hidden Talent: Drawing and Painting 45:36:  Giving Back: Involvement with the Air Force Academy Foundation 51:30:  Impact of the Air Force Academy: Building Resilience and Confidence   TAKEAWAYS Growing up in Texas with immigrant parents instilled a strong work ethic and a desire to give back to the country in Jason Kim. Inspired by the space shuttle program and the Gulf War, Jason decided to pursue a career in the military. At the Air Force Academy, Jason experienced the pedestal effect and learned the importance of curiosity, compassion, trust, and mutual respect in leadership. Jason's academic and extracurricular experiences at the Academy helped shape his leadership skills and provided him with lifelong friendships. His parents and role models like Colonel Ellison Onizuka influenced his decision to join the Air Force and give back to the country. Curiosity, compassion, and mutual respect are essential qualities in leadership. Taking risks and minimizing regrets can lead to personal and professional growth. Giving back and supporting future generations is important. The Air Force Academy provides valuable experiences and lifelong friendships. Learning multiple languages and exploring different cultures can broaden perspectives. The Academy's challenging environment builds resilience and confidence.   ABOUT JASON KIM '99 Mr. Jason Kim '99 is a member of the Air Force Academy Foundation Board of Directors. He is also CEO for Firefly Aerospace. Jason's career includes his work in the satellite and national security space for Boeing Raytheon and Northrop Grumman. While in the Air Force, he served as a program manager for the Space Superiority Systems program and Reconnaissance Systems Program offices. He has served on the boards of the National Defense industrial Association and space enterprise consortium formation Committee. He began his Air Force career as a cadet, having graduated with a degree in electrical engineering, followed by a master's in electrical engineering from AFET and then an MBA from the University of California, Anderson School of Management.    CONNECT WITH JASON LinkedIn     ABOUT LONG BLUE LEADERSHIP Long Blue Leadership drops every two weeks on Tuesdays and is available on Apple Podcasts, TuneIn + Alexa, Spotify and all your favorite podcast platforms. Search @AirForceGrads on your favorite social channels for Long Blue Leadership news and updates!          SPEAKERS Guest:  Mr. Jason Kim '99  |  Lt. Col. (Ret.) Naviere Walkewicz '99   Naviere Walkewicz  00:01 Our guest today is Mr. Jason Kim USAFA class of '99 and a member of the Air Force Academy Foundation Board of Directors. Jason's career includes his work in the satellite and national security space for Boeing, Raytheon and Northrop Grumman. While in the Air Force, he served as a program manager for the Space Superiority Systems and Reconnaissance Systems program offices. He has served on the boards of the National Defense Industrial Association and Space Enterprise Consortium Formation Committee. He began his Air Force career as a cadet, having graduated with a degree in electrical engineering, followed by a master's in electrical engineering from AFET and then an MBA from the University of California Anderson School of Management. We'll discuss Jason's life before, during and after the Academy, and we'll ask him to share a unique talent. We'll end with his advice for those striving to become leaders and those already in leadership positions, endeavoring toward excellence. Jason, welcome to Long Blue Leadership, my friend, my classmate. Thank you for being here today.   Jason Kim  01:04 Thank you for having me, and thanks for using my call sign.   Naviere Walkewicz  01:09 You're welcome. I know we want it to catch on so everyone knows now. Well, as we do in this, this is such a wonderful opportunity for our listeners to get to know you, and we like to go back and so for us, we're talking, you know, closer to 30 something years ago, right, when you were young. Jason, tell us about what life was like before the Academy was even in your in your line of sight.   Jason Kim  01:31 So, I grew up in Richardson, Texas. It's a suburb north of Dallas, and if you've been to Dallas, it's a metropolitan city, and but it's a little bit country as well. And so yes, I grew up with cowboy boots. I grew up with a belt buckle, you know, driving a pickup truck, all those kinds of things. But I'd listen to all kinds of music. So, judging by my call sign, you know, rap music, R&B, but also some country as well. And my parents were first-generation immigrants from South Korea, and so I really saw how hard they worked, you know, learning a different language, buying a house, doing all that in their late 30s and 40s and raising three children. I'm the youngest of three boys, and so I'm very, you know, grateful for what my parents did for us three boys. My dad was an electrician on oil rigs and was in the oil and gas industry, and that's why we ended up in Texas. And I'd see him travel away for a month at a time, and then come back home for a month to places like Venezuela and United Arab Emirates and Gulf of Mexico and all kinds of places. And so, you know, I heard stories of travel and just everything he was doing. So, we'll get to this later, but he was definitely an inspiration early on for me, and he always, you know, was very grateful for being a naturalized citizen and allowing our family to grow up in the U.S. and get an education. And so, he always kind of inspired me to give back to the country, and always do good things for the community as well. And so that's where I kind of got those roots. And, you know, also being the youngest of three boys, my older brothers were seven and nine years older than me and so you can imagine I was the little kid that they would bring along to school or, you know, meeting with friends. And so, I learned the good things from them and emulated the good things, but then the bad things, the mistakes that they made, I tried to avoid that. So, I kind of got it easy watching them. And so, I owe a lot to them coaching me and mentoring me as I grew up, and then being in Texas, of course, what did I play sports in, I played football. And I would say that a lot of the leadership skills that I got early on came from football, and a lot of the work ethic came from football — the teammates, the collaboration, the strategy. Texas football is pretty legit, and so I got to watch tape, I got to lift weights, practice. All those things that Tom Brady says in his Hall of Fame speech I resonate with now, I didn't end up like Tom Brady, but I resonate with what he said, all those early mornings, waking up, you know, training, all the hard work. It really taught me a lot of good lessons. And, you know, I still kind of  have a lot of that work ethic because of, you know, playing football, and a lot of the team and collaboration came from collaborating with 10 other football players trying to score a touchdown, or keep others from scoring a touchdown. And also, a big reason why I'm a big college football fan, so I'm really happy to see your son play for the Falcons, and I'm going to be rooting for him and the rest of the Falcons, as well as my other alma mater, UCLA, so I'll be at those games as well.   Naviere Walkewicz  05:55 That is awesome. I mean, I'm almost developing a visual of young Jason and his two older brothers and his mom and dad. And what a story. I mean, I think about, you know, just first off, the confidence, resilience and grit of your parents, right? And then you're seeing this, and you're growing up in a household. So, what, as the youngest? I mean, I think, like you said, you were able to kind of see what to avoid, what pitfalls to avoid, and how to kind of navigate that. Well, when did the military kind of come into the picture? Was that something that your older brothers participated in through school? How were you introduced into that side of the world?   Jason Kim  06:32 Yeah so, I would say it kind of goes along with some inspirational people in my life. You know, growing up in Texas, the Space Shuttle program was a big deal. And I think you and I were 8 years old when the space shuttle Challenger event happened, and one of the astronauts that was a hero among all the astronauts on that mission was Col. Ellison Onizuka, and he made a career in the Air Force. He was a test pilot, graduated with his Ph.D., I believe, and became an astronaut, and really gave his life in many ways, to for science and for the Air Force. And so, seeing someone like that that also kind of looked like me was a good role model for me at an early age. And so that kind of got me interested in the Air Force and the Shuttle program. And then, you know, I think you and I remember when we're young, 1991 before we went to the Academy, you know, the Gulf War, and we saw on TV for this first time, all this shock and awe and Gen. Schwarzkopf and Colin Powell, and all the strategy that was used. The technology. You know, you heard about the second offset strategy with those F-117 Nighthawks, and all the flares that you would see that night. And it really just made an impression on me. It got me kind of excited about the military and all the technology that's involved. And also, you know, kind of got me into thinking about being a pilot someday. And again, you know, my dad always saying, “Hey, give back, Jason. You know, this country has given a lot to our family. Give back.” I kind of got that motivation to go into the military. And then, you know, I think we also had family friends that had some people that went to the academies, whether it's the Naval Academy or others, and got to learn a little bit from them what was it like to go to the Academy? And these were really good role models as well. So, I got with my liaison officer, which was a really great liaison officer, got me involved with what I needed to do to get more information. And went to the summer scientific seminar and spent a week on the campus and got to learn what it was like to be a cadet, somewhat. Yeah, it was actually fun. But, you know, meeting people, meeting the upperclassmen, and they were all super nice at the time. And I also, it turns out, I met my future roommate there, and we were, yeah, we met at the summer scientific seminar. And so, lo and behold, when I go into basic cadet training, I see him there. I'm like, “Oh my gosh, you were there at the same time as me!” So it was a really great experience, and that kind of solidified it for me that I wanted to go the Air Force Academy.   Naviere Walkewicz  09:56 So, I mean, you had some great role models to kind of facilitate some of that interest. There was a lot of things happening in the country that, you know, we both were, were very familiar with, and it created some feelings of pride and wanting to give back. Were you always thinking about the Air Force Academy because of those motivations, or were you thinking other service academies as well?   Jason Kim  10:16 I think I had my heart set on the Air Force Academy. You know, I don't know if I said before, but you know, my parents had me late, later in life, and so since I was the baby of the family, by the time I got to the age of going to college, my parents were retirement age, and I was not going to put them through what they did for my older brothers, which was room, tuition, board, and all that stuff that they had to work hard to pay for. I wanted to get a scholarship somehow. And this was a way to give back to the country, get a scholarship, get a great education. Plus, you know, I applied to all the service academies. But, you know, you'll, you'll hear this later, but I wasn't the best swimmer, so I wasn't going to go to the Naval Academy. West Point was foreign to me. I just didn't know enough about the Army, and I wanted to be a pilot. So, I thought, “Hey, the Air Force Academy is the best way to do that.”   Naviere Walkewicz  11:17 Awesome. So, you had a great ALO (pronounced AY-low and is an Academy Liaison Officer) you know, you kind of went through the process, which, in itself, is quite a process, as we remember. And so how did you find out? When did you find out you received an appointment to the Air Force Academy?   Jason Kim  11:31 That was, oh, that was, you know, I've had a lot of great moments in my life, so it's, that's reaching far back. I just remember that I was super happy. You know, it was Congressman Sam Johnson of the 3rd District of Texas that, you know, gave me the nomination. He was actually an Air Force pilot and a Vietnam POW. He since passed away. But, you know, getting a nomination from a legend like that was very much an honor. You know, I also got a senatorial nomination to go to the Naval Academy, but not knowing any better, as the 18-year-old, or whatever I was, 17-year-old, I was like, “Sorry, Senator, I'm going to the Air Force Academy. Thank you very much. I'm not going to the Naval Academy.” So I was very set on going to the Air Force Academy. I was very, very happy, because it was hard to get in. I mean, one of the challenges I had as a fairly big football player in high school was the, you know, the test that you have to physical fitness tests you have to take to get into the Air Force Academy. So, you had to do all the pull ups and the runs and all that stuff. And I had to cut weight, and it really took me waking up every morning, just going through the routine of practicing all those things, and eventually got enough confidence to pass the physical fitness test and all the other things you got to go through. So, it was very rewarding to get to the point where I got in.   Naviere Walkewicz  13:15 That is awesome. And I can see that drive, I mean, just from your family instilled in you to get to be like you said, confident, ready to go. That's no surprise at all. So, talk about at the Academy, we know a little about your roommate. You met him in summer scientific seminar. What was your Academy experience like?   Jason Kim  13:35 I remember Day 1 because there are two funny things that happened. One, somehow I got lucky, and I got paired up with a NCO, enlisted person, who I wish I remembered his name. He didn't end up staying after Basic Cadet Training, so I lost touch. But what he did for me was amazing, because he already knew the drill. He was like, “Jason, you don't know how to wear BDUs, but this is how you do it. This is how you put the blouses on.” How did I luck out? I had somebody that knew what to do and was teaching me how to do it from Day 1. So very, very much grateful to that individual. I wish I could have kept in touch with him. The second funny thing is, we all had name badges. And you know, my name badge, for some reason, it said Jun Kim. And I was like, OK, that's my last name, and it's June, I think. So it makes sense. And then everybody, all the upperclassmen, were like, “Is your name Jun Kim?” I was like, “Yes, yes, sir. My name is Kim,” and I thought it was the month. But it turns out they accidentally switched my nametag with another Cadet named Jun Kim. Yeah, and so he was wearing my Jason Kim, and so, on Day 1, you know, it was very confusing, and that got me into a lot of trouble. They're like, “Do you know…,” all the things you could think of, I was getting all those kinds of comments. And so, it was quite the memorable experience. It's like, it's hard enough being a new doolie and trying to figure it out. But then when you have those kinds of incidents, it's like, it makes it even more confusing, but it was memorable.   Naviere Walkewicz  15:33 Oh, that's awesome. I can, literally picture this.   Jason Kim  15:37 That was Day 1, and then, you know, life as a cadet. They warn you of this. They warn you of the pedestal effect, where you're in high school, you're top of your game, and top of your class and you varsity letter and all that stuff. But when you get to the Academy, oh, boy, was I humbled. I mean, there were people that were smarter than me, more athletic than me, you know, better in every way. And so, I just felt very average. And in retrospect, there's nothing wrong with that, right? But just being around 1,500 cadets, you know they just were the best of the best from wherever they were. It was very, very humbling, but also rewarding, because I got to meet people from different states. I'd go on spring break to California for the first time, because I'd make friends with people that were from Northern California or Los Angeles. So, I got to meet a lot of lifelong friends that have been my support group for my entire life, you know. And every time I get together with my friends from the Academy, it's just like it was old times. It just, it's hard to explain, but you know what I'm talking about, and…   Naviere Walkewicz  17:02 I do. It just feels like time didn't pass.   Jason Kim  17:05 That's right. Some of us, like yourself, look like you do from those days. Some of us aged a little bit differently, like myself, but yeah, it was a great experience. Now, if you remember our year — our year was the first year that had the increased level of the internet and so that got a lot of people in trouble. Because, you know, “What's this internet? What do you do with it?” What we got in trouble for in my class was we played a lot of online games, you know, in first-person kind of games. So, I remember there was a game called Quake, and it was a lot of us just playing together in our in our dorm rooms and spending a little bit too much time on that. And then I remember other video games, like Goldeneye on Nintendo, and it just sucked so much time out of our days that, in retrospect, it's like, “What were we doing?” So, I guess you could say we were kind of old-school video gamers back in the day.   Naviere Walkewicz  18:20 It's funny. I was just going to ask you, we knew that you were getting into electrical engineering. What else were you doing? So, it sounds like it wasn't football, but it was Nintendo.   Jason Kim  18:30 I really loved sports. So, I loved taking all the intramural sports and the classes like golf and tennis, and I got into rugby for a little bit, for a minute, which I really enjoyed, but it's not a very forgiving sport, so that didn't last that long. But, you know, I think just the camaraderie you get playing sports like that was fun, and I think from the academic side, you know, I did go into electrical engineering, so I did all the nerdy stuff. That's probably why we didn't cross paths. Also, you probably weren't at the robotics competitions that we were doing, because that's really nerdy. But we got into doing little Roomba robot construction before Roombas existed, and we created our own Pac Man, you know, handheld games from scratch using a box of parts and processors. And my senior design project was pretty interesting. My classmate and I decided to make a digital karaoke machine. You know, using everything we learned from electrical engineering and apply it to something fun. I just remember us just trying to make the most of it with our friends and our classmates, and trying to make it fun, because it could be a lot. I took a lot of semester credit hours my freshman year. I just remember something like 22-plus credit hours. It was just a lot, and you really needed a way to recharge. And so those were some of the ways. But of course, the skiing was amazing. You know, being so close in proximity to all the ski resorts, like Breckenridge and Copper Mountain and Vail — all those great places. So those were always fun things to do. I had my first bowl of pho in Denver.   Naviere Walkewicz  20:49 In Denver?   Jason Kim  20:52 I remember that vividly. I went to one of my first concerts, Smashing Pumpkins at the Nuggets center. And then I got to go to Red Rocks. So, there was a lot of cultural things that I got to be a part of, too.   Naviere Walkewicz  21:09 I love that. So some of the things that you expressed, and I think this is great for our listeners, because, you know, sometimes some of some of our guests have been very, I don't say tunnel vision, but there's very, like, one track they've been really dedicated to, like one aspect. You know, obviously we have to do military, academic and, you know, physical fitness, athleticism, but there's kind of one track that they really hone in on. It seems like you really kind of experienced a lot, and through all of that, I might ask, what were some of the leadership lessons you picked up and learning about yourself, because you kind of talked about that pedestal effect, right? You were really kind of high coming from high school, and then you came to the Academy, and you kind of had to rediscover yourself in a different way. And it looked like you did that. What did you learn?   Jason Kim  21:53 Yeah, so some of the leadership things that I would say, that I got exposed to — and it made me kind of think about it and much later in life, kind of reinforce it — was just to be curious. A lot of times as leaders, you can jump to conclusions but I think one technique that is very helpful, no matter what industry you're in, is just be curious. You know, when you have employees, you could hold folks accountable but be curious about it. Ask the right questions. “Is everything OK? Do you have enough support? Do you have the tools, training to do what you need to? How's your family life?” That kind of stuff. So, I think you could be very curious and compassionate and graceful in terms of leadership, and that's partly learning from good leaders, but also bad leaders that didn't do that. So, I think you got to see both sides as a cadet, and you always want to pick the good leaders and emulate the good behaviors and leave out the bad. So that's one thing I would say. You know, we got this drilled into us, and we didn't even know at the time how important it was. But building that trust with your teams — that's extremely empowering and motivating when you trust someone else, and they trust you, and you can go much, much further when you build that trust up. And then the last thing I would say is, I think we were one of the first classes that had noncommissioned officers alongside with AOCs (Air Officer Commanding) that were there to teach us about mutual respect, about mutual respect between officers and noncommissioned officers. And I think that went a long ways for all of us, because once we went to the real Air Force, we were going to lead a lot of officers and NCOs and getting that kind of exposure early on was helpful. But also learning about mutual respect — that's something that is extremely important in any work setting that you're in. So those are kind of three examples of leadership, things that I would say I remember from the Academy that are also still important today.   Naviere Walkewicz  24:35 I think that's wonderful. Maybe you'll even share an example where you saw either curiosity, compassion or mutual respect really play a role in your professional or personal life after the Academy, but before we get there, I remember you talking about wanting to maybe get into space, right? The astronaut program, be a pilot. How did that all shape out? Because you were an electrical engineer, and then what?   Jason Kim  24:58 So, I really wanted to be a pilot. And for some reason, I really liked the C-17, the Globemaster. And I think it's because it was a fly-by-wire kind of system. It was a stick, but it was like more of a commercial airline-kind of transport plane. So, it was a blend of — fighter pilots use sticks but it was still kind of an air mobility command-kind of system. But, you know, unfortunately, my eyesight, my color deficiency, just didn't allow me to go into that track. So, I really just leaned on and doubled down on my electrical engineering background and got to go to Wright-Patterson Air Force Base as my first assignment. And there I was an engineer-slash-project-manager working on uncrewed aerial vehicles before they became popular. So, things like the Global Hawk and the Predator, UAVs, those were things that I was getting exposed to, and I got to put payloads on. If you remember, in the 1999 timeframe, there were Hellfire missiles put on the Predator. I was there when that was happening. And so, it was just very, very amazing to see all that happen before my eyes. I got to work on the U2 and put payloads on the U2 and other very important missions. And I think that exposed me to the real Air Force. Even though I wasn't flying, I got exposed to assets that actually went into the theater and were very valuable. And then from there, I got assigned to L.A. Air Force Base, and finally got to live out my dream of living in Los Angeles, and was assigned to the Space Superiority Material Wing, and that's where we were acquiring satellites and ground systems to help protect our freedom in space. And so, I learned a lot about space there and ground systems. And, you know, after several years working there, I decided I wanted to go into industry. And so, I did two things. I went to a large aerospace company and became a program manager there. You know, now, in charge of designing and building these satellites. So I went part time to UCLA to get my fully employed MBA, just knowing that I wasn't going to know everything about industry. I wasn't going to know everything about how to be part of a company, and so I wanted to kind of learn more about that side of the industry by getting an MBA. Unbeknownst to me, the MBA wasn't just about company operations and finances, it was actually about leadership. And so, I got a lot of leadership lessons from my MBA program as well. So, it gave me a lot of confidence. And what I mean by that is confidence in just going with your gut, taking risks, getting into high-risk, high-reward situations. And it's because I learned about, the company financials, the underpinnings of a company. I learned about entrepreneurism, what it what it's like to start up a company or operate a company or go through different case studies of how to turn around a company. I learned a lot about accounting and how important and valuable that is. But then most of all, I learned a lot from my classmates. And there were people from the Hollywood industry or investment banking or the medical industry. So, it was really great to learn from my classmates. It got me to conference level where I was like, “Hey, what am I doing at this company? I want to take a risk and go to a startup company.” And I did. I took that leap of faith, and that's where our first, you know, joined Millennium Space Systems, which was a small startup company when it was 20 people. But it was something that I guess I go back to the Air Force Academy where, you know, there's that quote in the Eagle and Fledgling statue that says, “Man's flight through life is sustained by the power of his knowledge.” That kind of always stuck with me and it's one of those things where, when you join a startup company, and you help grow it, and eventually we sold the company to Boeing, you learn so much. I mean, I had five different hats, you know, and I had to learn about finance, program management, business development, engineering, integration and test, all that stuff, mission operations — you learn all those things by doing, and no one will ever be able to take that knowledge away. You just, you just get it for life.   Naviere Walkewicz  30:34 Wow, there's, there's so much that, I mean, you covered such a span, because I'm imagining, you know, maybe I don't want to call — maybe “gift” is not the right word, but not being able to be a pilot might have been something that opened up obviously these opportunities for you in ways that you could not have even foreseen. So, I actually wanted to go back to that really quick and just ask, how did you, how did you kind of re-change your thoughts or shape your mindset to, “OK, well, it's not that. So, what's next?” And how did you handle that? Because I think some of our listeners find themselves in situations where, “Well, if I do all these things, then it will lead to this.” But sometimes there are things outside of your control that even if you do all the things, you can't get there.   Jason Kim  31:20 Well, I think, first of all, I'll always be a fan of pilots and aviators and all these fighters and bombers and transport airplanes — I definitely bleed blue still to this day. So, I definitely appreciate all of our classmates that have sacrificed so much to fly in the Air Force and defend us. That's kind of my mindset is, “What can I do to still contribute to the mission to national security?” And so as long as that was kind of my guide-star, I was fine, because I knew that I was contributing to the mission in some way, whether it be acquiring platforms and putting payloads on those platforms to go support our classmates, or today, you know, designing and building systems and operating systems that end up helping national security. It's really the mindset of, “What can I do to help and make a difference, to help defend our country?” So that's how my mindset shifted, because it takes all of us to contribute what we each contribute to make these missions work. And so that's kind of where my head was at.   Naviere Walkewicz  32:50 I think that's fantastic advice. And there's this theme that's been woven since you talked about your parents, and I think it's this, you know, looking forward and investing in yourself and educating yourself. And so along this path, you've done those things. You're also a family man. When did that kind of come to fruition and how does your family feel about when you joining startups and taking risks and doing some of these things?   Jason Kim  33:16 It goes back to my dad. He gave me a lot of great advice when he was still around, and one of the advice was just sharing his regrets. You know, a lot of people thought he was my grandfather because he had me so late. Really,there's something to be said about that. He was very wise. He had a lot of experience in life, and he had global experience and had seen so many different hardships and overcome them. And he would always say, “Hey, I wish I would have taken, you know, that risk and left my company and joined my other co-workers to go start up that other company.” That actually happened. He had co-workers that ended up starting up a different old drilling company in Texas, and he thought it was too much risk at the time. He regrets that, because obviously those people that went over at the time they did, they did well for themselves. So he would tell me stories like that, and really all that wisdom he would just try to share with me from a young age. And it's hard to admit, but at some point in your, all of our lives, we start to realize how right our parents were sometimes, and so, you know, a lot of the risk taking that I'm doing, that I have done, stems from advice that my dad gave me. It's like, “Hey, go for it. Take the risks. Don't have those regrets.” And so, I think I have lived my life in that manner — just minimize the regrets and take some risk and take calculated risk and really be confident with yourself and double down on yourself. So, yeah, absolutely.   Naviere Walkewicz  35:12 I love that. And your family obviously doubles down on — yeah.   Jason Kim  35:16 I mean, I had kids late in life. I really enjoy spending time with my kids. That's how I recharge. You know, I've got a son that's turning 9 this month, and a daughter that turned 6 a couple months ago, and just watching them grow up and be curious and learn and ask questions and try different things out. You know, we try not to push things on our kids, and I'm the same way. I'm not trying to push anything on my kids, but I do want to give them a lot of opportunities that I wish I had, and just expose them to those opportunities, because you just never know which one takes off and which one really resonates with them. And so that's kind of my mindset right now is, “How can I give my son and daughter as many opportunities as possible so that they could figure it out on their own what they want to do,” right?   Naviere Walkewicz  36:09 Well, even the words that you used, you kind of talked about some of those lessons that you took away as a cadet, and you are seeing it in your children, with the way that they ask questions and the way that they explore. So, I think you have kind of taken those and pass it into your legacy line. I do want to ask a question, because we always find it fascinating when we learn more about our guests. So, do you have a hidden talent that you might share with our listeners?     Jason Kim  36:35 I do. I wish I could say it's something that is so fascinating. But really, it's just some something that I could — I could draw and paint really well, and it was something that I just noticed when I was very young. You know, I learned from my older brothers, and they were pretty good at it, too, but I learned at an earlier age than them, and so I've always been able to sketch and draw realistic pictures. When I was younger, drawing Lamborghinis. Because I always wanteda Lamborghini Countach. They don't make those cars in the price points that I would like, so I don't have one today. But I was always drawing things. And, you know, recently, I started painting as well, and it was crazy. I had never done oil painting before, and when I had my first child, my son, whatever got into me, I just picked up a brush and painted a picture of him, and it actually looks like him. And we did a side by side, like picture of him smiling, and the painting of him smiling. It definitely captures his essence, because I never got training or anything. And so, I would say that's my hidden talent. It was even hidden for me. And, you know, it's just amazing — just go for it. Just go do it. And that's one of the things that I would recommend to people that are wanting to go the Air Force Academy is just get out of your comfort zone and do as many things as you can early on, even before going to the Academy. You know, learn different languages. Just learn as much as you can. Learn lifetime sports. Take lessons of swimming or golf or tennis — all those kind of things. Just do as much as you can, because you'll get busy when you're at the Air Force Academy and you'll have less time to do all the things you want to do. But even when you're in industry and you're working, you don't have as much time to go do that kind of stuff. And you may not think you have a lot of time during junior high or high school, but you do, and you should take advantage of just learning as much as you can, and you'll appreciate it later in life when you go travel to Paris or travel to different places like Thailand or, you know, Japan. You know, if you learn those languages, you can explore those places even more in a way that you know is more enriching, and that gets me to that's what I want to do more of, is travel, travel globally with my family. I think that's something that I want to expose my kids to. And a lot of times you grow up in the United States and you start thinking, “Hey, there's only one way to think about stuff.” But when you travel — and I got to travel for work to Paris a couple years — it opened my eyes. It opened my eyes to a different world and how other people think and dress and go about their daily lives. I've also gotten to London recently for work, and that was eye opening as well, and been to Southeast Asia as well. So, it's just fascinating to go to this these different places and learn the cultures and talk the languages and meet the people. It's very enriching.   Naviere Walkewicz So how many languages do you speak?   Jason Kim So, I grew up learning Korean so I can speak a little bit of Korean. I obviously took Spanish because I grew up in Texas, and that Spanish is a very valuable language in Texas, even in California. And because I took Spanish, you know, when I get to the Air Force Academy, what do they do? They said, “Hey, we don't want you to take Spanish. We want you to be the handful of people that takes Arabic.” So, I got the privilege to take Arabic. I got volunteered into it, and it was very, very difficult for me, because I just had no background in it. I struggled with it. But the silver lining is that I learned about a new culture, and I learned about how to write right to left and, you know, just a new language and new foods that go along with it, too. So I really appreciated that. In hindsight, at the time I didn't think it was that easy, but in hindsight, I wish I would have done more and kept the fluency in it, because learning a different language means you can talk to a different group of people, and you can learn more or teach each other new things. So, it just opens a lot of doors.   Naviere Walkewicz  42:02 So, the experiences you've had, both from the Academy and the languages and throughout your career, both professionally as well. It's personally, what's something that you've taken back from those experiences that you might share with a listener that maybe hasn't had that kind of exposure, that they can bring to the leadership table. And how do you use that at yours?   Jason Kim  42:20 I think it just goes back to what it touched on before, is just the curiosity. Just always be curious. You know, I think Ted Lasso had it right. Just be curious, right? If you had just asked questions about, “Hey, did you throw darts when you were younger?” Oh, if you would have known that you would have known that Ted lasso was really good at darts. I think just being curious and being an active listener and asking questions and listening to other people, sometimes people want to vent, or sometimes people want to just be heard or have a voice, or, most of the time, people just have good ideas. And you know, it's all about, “Hey, did I miss something? Did you miss something? Did we both miss something?” If you get all those great ideas and you share it amongst different people from different backgrounds and walks of life, you don't miss as much and you're just better off, you'll have a better solution. And in my industry, you have a better design, you have a better result, performance result. And so, I would just say, just be curious.   Naviere Walkewicz  43:29 What did your road back to the Academy look like? You know, now you're part of a board of (USAFA) Foundation directors, and so you talked about learning from your dad and your mom, always about giving back. So, I have to think that's probably been part of was in the back of your mind. But how did that all come together?   Jason Kim  43:44 You know, I had no road map to do the job that I'm in right now. I never anticipated doing this job, and I also didn't anticipate being on the board of directors for the Air Force Academy Foundation. But I had folks reach out from, you know, the Air Force Academy Foundation, and ask me, “Hey, do you know what we do? You're a big football fan. Are you aware there's a Falcon Stadium renovation?” And I was like, “No, tell me more.” And with that first visit, I actually donated right away, I was like, “I'm on board. Sign me up. I want to donate to this because I believe in it.” You know, Falcon Stadium was where we graduated, right? It's such a memorable place. We saw a lot of football games there. And so, it means so much. So, I was all about donating to that cause. And then I would say that the second time around, when the same person came back and said, just to check up on me — he had mentioned, “Hey, there's this foundation, and they're looking for someone that has a space background, and you have a space background. So, are you interested in potentially coming to a board meeting?” When I went and attended the board meeting as a guest, I just stared around the room, and I was just in awe, because there was Paul Kaminski, who's, to me, is one of my role models in terms of all that he's done for the country and continues to do for the country. And he was on the academic committee. And so, of course, I wanted to join the academic committee. I saw Gen. Eberhardt. I saw Gen. Born, and there were just so many amazing people, Paul Madera, that I was just in awe. And, you know, from that respect, I was like, “Sign me up. I want to be a part of this.” And I saw them and how much they cared about the Academy and the cadets and making sure that the Academy kind of stayed relevant and was giving the cadets the best education that they can to compete with the Stanfords and MITs and the Harvards, I really saw a good cause, and then the fact that they were interested in my space background. I said, “Yeah, I definitely want to be part of whatever I could do to contribute to the Air Force Academy, to graduate not only people that are going to go to the Air Force, but also to the Space Force.” And so that's something I hope to contribute to is maybe someday a future space education center at the Air Force Academy, so that the cadets could get a great education and be future leaders in the Space Force as well.   Naviere Walkewicz  46:53 Well, it certainly makes a difference. And I think I remember seeing you at that first board meeting that you participated in. I was so excited to see you. That was like, oh, '99s in the house. So that was wonderful. Yes, well, I have two questions left. The first one is, really, I want to just ask you, because we've covered so much, and you've given such wonderful, I think, advice and just perspective. But is there anything that I didn't ask you that you had wanted to, you know, talk about today?   Jason Kim  47:20 You know, I think at the end of the day, going through the Air Force Academy is extremely challenging, but after you graduate, and after you go through life experiences, all the hardships, the challenges, what I've realized is going through the Academy kind of helped me overcome what I had to overcome in my adult life and in my industry life. We didn't like it at the time but breaking you down and then building you back up and making you get up back again every time you fall down, gives you life lessons and a confidence in yourself that you can kind of do anything that you put your mind to. I really believe that the Air Force Academy kind of helped me overcome a lot of different hardships in my life. You don't really realize that going through it, but later in life, I appreciate the fact that I went there and getting through there actually gave me the confidence that I could get back up and be OK and keep growing and continuously learn and get better and improve. So that's kind of something that I could attribute to the Air Force Academy.   Naviere Walkewicz  48:49 Oh, that is awesome. And, I mean, and it's obviously taken you to new heights. Leading a corporation is no small feat. So,  one of the things we really like to do is make sure we kind of hear the takeaways, from you to our listeners. So, it's really kind of a message to them. But before we do that and get your final thoughts, I just wanted to offer a note of thanks to our listeners for being here on the Long Blue Leadership. The podcast drops every two weeks on Tuesdays and is available on all your favorite podcast apps. Be sure to send us your thoughts and comments at socialmedia@usafa.org, and listen to past episodes at longblueleadership.org  So, Jason, I want to come back to you now, because I hope that gave you a little bit of time to think about what is the message you'd like to share to our listeners. And our listeners are far and wide. We have those aspiring to go to the Academy, we have family members of cadets, and we have graduates all alike. What would you like to share when you think about kind of your experiences in the realm of leadership?   Jason Kim  49:48 To them, I think the Air Force Academy is a great place to graduate from. It's really hard to get through. So, be really proud of your sons and daughters that are going through it and persevering, and it really is a great experience for them. For those that are prospective students: You're going to get to do things that you never could do anywhere else. You know, jump out of planes fly gliders, eventually go into the Air Force or Space Force. And then for graduates, we've made so many lifelong friends, and we've made so many memories. It's something we can all do is give back, whether it's — go march back from Jacks Valley, or go to the reunion this year for our 25th reunion for the class of '99, or go to some football games. The Foundation has plenty of great, noble causes to donate to, because it's all about that Long Blue Line. We want the next set of cadets to get an even better experience in education than we did. We want to keep it going.   Naviere Walkewicz  51:12 It is always a pleasure to not only hear your voice, but today, I got to see you as well. That just brings me such joy, and I can't wait until our reunion, just in a couple of months as well. Thank you so much for your time today, Jason, it's been amazing. Lil' Kim, thank you. Bye.   KEYWORDS Jason Kim, Firefly Aerospace, Air Force Academy, immigrant parents, work ethic, space shuttle program, Gulf War, military career, pedestal effect, curiosity, compassion, trust, mutual respect, leadership, CEO, curiosity, compassion, mutual respect, electrical engineering, startup, satellites, taking risks, giving back     The Long Blue Line Podcast Network is presented by the U.S. Air Force Academy Association and Foundation      

This is interview with Yousef Khoury, a Christian Palestinian theologian originally from Gaza, currently living in Bethlehem, was conducted in April 2024. The content of this interview was used for the book: "Daybreak in Gaza, stories of Palestinian lives and culture". In this interview Yousef shares with us his memories of Gaza before the destruction that happened since 7 October 2023.The book was edited by Mahmoud Muna and Matthew Teller, with Juliette Touma and Jayyab Abusafia. Published by Saqi Books (London). Profits from sales are being donated to the charity Medical Aid for Palestinians. The book includes writing and images from almost 100 contributors, bringing together stories, essays, war diaries, memoirs, poems and artworks by all sorts of people from Gaza or connected to Gaza - writers and artists, but also shopkeepers, farmers, teachers, medics, office workers, and more.You can order “Daybreak in Gaza” at your local bookshop in any country, or from Amazon and other online bookstores - but there are two extra-special ways to order:1- Direct from the publisher at https://saqibooks.com/ - they will ship worldwide, and buying from the publisher maximizes the amount going to charity. (Also, Saqi have been publishing books about Palestine and the wider Middle East for decades, and have a fantastic list of fiction and non-fiction titles that is well worth exploring).2- Or you can choose to support the Palestinian economy directly by ordering from EducationalBookshop.com - This is a Palestinian-owned and Palestinian-run bookshop in the eastern part of Jerusalem run by the co-author of DAYBREAK IN GAZA, Mahmoud Muna and his family for many years. They will ship worldwide.This October and November, the book's editors Mahmoud Muna and Matthew Teller will be speaking about Gaza, and Palestine, in London and cities around the UK, with events planned in Amsterdam, Brussels, Frankfurt and elsewhere. Keep an eye on SaqiBooks.com and Matthew's website matthewteller.com, where tour updates will be posted. The launch event is scheduled for Thursday 3rd October, at the famous Stanfords bookshop in London.

21st April 2024 The Spokesmen Cycling Podcast EPISODE 352: Laura Laker SPONSOR: Tern Bicycles HOST: Carlton Reid GUEST: Laura Laker LINKS: https://www.the-spokesmen.com/ https://www.ternbicycles.com https://twitter.com/CarltonReid https://twitter.com/laura_laker https://www.bloomsbury.com/uk/potholes-and-pavements-9781399406468/ Carlton Reid 0:11 Welcome to Episode 352 of the Spokesmen cycling podcast. This show was engineered on Sunday, April 21 2024. David Bernstein 0:28 The Spokesmen cycling roundtable podcast is brought to you by Tern bicycles. The good people at Tern are committed to building bikes that are useful enough to ride every day and dependable enough to carry the people you love. In other words, they make the kind of bikes that they want to ride. Tern has e-bikes for every type of rider. Whether you're commuting, taking your kids to school or even carrying another adult, visit www.ternbicycles.com. That's t e r n bicycles.com to learn more. Carlton Reid 1:04 I'm Carlton Reid and today's show is a chat with like journalist Laura Laker, author of an excellent new book, Potholes and Pavements. This is a travelogue featuring Laura's travels around the UK, writing on some of the best and worst bits of Britain's National Cycle network. From jaw droppingly gorgeous looking ancient military roads in the Highlands of Scotland to dark and dingy urban back streets blocked with barriers. As the books subhead warns, it's a bumpy ride. Um, so you've written a book. Is this your first? Laura Laker 1:46 Yeah, my first my first book, believe it or not, Carlton Reid 1:49 well done. Congratulations. It's a brilliant first book. One of many. I'm sure it'll be one of many. I noticed you've got a an agent. Yeah, you say in the back and thank him. So I'm guessing you're going to be doing more books? Laura Laker 2:00 Yeah, I guess so. I'm not trying to think about it too much. This one was very long in the gestation. I had an idea back in 2017 to do a basically ring around talking to people. I'd listened to the audiobook of John Steinbeck's Travels with Charlie, in which he travels across the US with his big poodle, and talking to people and he says he's most wonderful conversations, which were later question for their veracity, but it's just, it's just a wonderful format. And I love I'd kind of in that trip to America, I rediscovered my love of talking to strangers, which I had as a kid, and I'm kind of lost over the years, I guess, being British, but spending time in the US where everyone is just willing to talk to you and tell you their life story. I rediscovered this just love of cycling, is brilliant for that, you know, just talking to people you're travelling around, you might stop at some lights, or you might pass someone on a path and just get chatting to them. And it's wonderful people have the most amazing stories, I think Carlton Reid 2:59 Well, there's two teachers that you met, hopefully they will read the book. You weren't avoiding them. Laura Laker 3:07 I know Greg and Norton, they were so brilliant. And the most unexpected encounters and I was up in the Cairngorms and travelling alone and feeling a bit like oh, you know, such a beautiful, it's ridiculously beautiful up there. I'm always just astounded by Scotland, and how how it's possible for somewhere to be so beautiful. And the NCN [National Cycle Network] across the Cairngorms is something else, it's really quite remarkable. A lot of its off road, it's this dedicated path. It was an old military road. And the rest is on fairly quiet country roads. And I was pootling along on my big pink ebike, which I did some of my adventures on and I saw these roadies coming up behind me and I thought well that they're going to overtake me in a bit. And sure enough, they did. We said hello. And then I saw them stopped at this bridge and they were looking over and they just had this wonderful kind of whimsy about them this they weren't they were going a long way actually they're going from kind of Aviemore back to Preston where they were at least one of them lived and doing it over a couple of days in sort of training one of them's an Ironman enthusiastic participants, but on the way they were stopping looking over bridges, that sort of waterfalls over rocks and like looking across the landscape and just enjoying the scenery. And that for me is what cycling is about. It's about appreciating the world around us and the people around us and so they said we'll ride with us for a while and as you know ebike your Aberdeen bought a bike mine included, maxes out at 15 and a half miles an hour which these guys were obviously capable of exceeding quite easily. So but they they rode with me for quite some time and we chatted and they were just fantastic. And then yeah, they they stopped for a week and I had to run inside for a week. And then I came out and they'd gone Carlton Reid 4:51 but it's quite a nice way to say goodbye. Are you are you are you taking notes as you're going along? So you wrote their names and what they did. And or you coding stuff. How are you physically? Laura Laker 5:02 Yeah, so I get back at the end of a ride and write stuff down. And I do think it's best that way, especially with travel writing, because you forget so much so quickly. And the big three Cornwall, I think is, you know, in the early parts of the book, when I first started the exploration, further afield, you know, writing stuff down as you experience it, or very soon after is really important because you lose a lot of the detail and the texture of what you're experiencing. And I think it just makes for much richer story that way, but also difficult to do because you're having to memorise and maybe that's why Steinbeck was getting criticised because he wasn't writing No, no. As he was going along, he's remembering it. Well, memories can do. Memory is really interesting, actually. Because we we probably most of us think that our memories are fairly good, or the way that remember things is correct. But actually, it's very, very subjective. And the longer time goes on, the more we forget, or the memory gets warped, or things get introduced that didn't exist, maybe and it's really very, very subjective. I've got I don't know for some things, I've got quite a good short term memory so I can remember to a certain extent, but obviously, as Homer Simpson once said, you know, one thing comes into your brain another thing has to leave it so. Carlton Reid 6:23 That's 100% me though. So this book Potholes and Pavements, a bumpy ride on Britain's National Cycle network, it comes out May the ninth published by Bloomsbur. £16.99. Excellent, excellent book. I read it yesterday and got up early this morning to make sure I finished it before I spoke with you. Now normally when when I talk to people for this podcast, I always get them to send me a photograph so I can do the you know, the socials and the thing that goes on the show notes. What have you with you, oh, an hour and a half to do that. Because I have ridden with you ridden with you on bits of the ride that you are right that you mentioned in your book. So when you mentioned that, you know the cycle superhighway. You make an item was like, I've got that photograph because I was holding my camera photographing you behind me? Laura Laker 7:20 Yeah, with Brian Deegan. Carlton Reid 7:21 There's knowing smiles when I'm reading your books like I was on that ride. Like I know, Laura. Oh, my word. It's also like me on that ride. And when you describe windmills, yes. But the windmills and it's a cute book for me. Also cute because I know lots of these people who you're describing. And I know in the book, it says he didn't want to be described as a hero. But he is a hero. And because it's about the National Cycle network, then clearly that's got to be the guy who not single handedly founded it, but certainly pushed it through with those with those early innovators. So that's John Grimshaw. So he comes in, he's, he's in at least three or four parts of the book, you've clearly gone to speak to him a number of times wonderful. And it's fantastic that he's in there, because he really doesn't get the recognition he deserves. Laura Laker 8:16 Yeah, it's interesting. I mean, he I obviously have to speak to John Grimshaw. Because a lot of people as he points out, and as I tried to convey in the book, a lot of people and probably, you know, uncountable numbers of people were involved in the foundation of and development of the National Cycle network. And then it's maintenance ever since many of whom are working for very little, in fact, nothing, because they loved it. But John really seemed like, talking to people and talking to him, was the driving this real driving force behind it and his kind of self belief and single minded determination, I think was a major driver and he is such a character. I mean, a bit of a Marmite character, I think, but, you know, it seems like you need people to kind of drive things forward. Carlton Reid 9:05 Cos you need somebody like that. He's a visionary. Yeah, you know. I love Malcolm Shepherd. I love Zavier Brice, the people who are in charge now and Malcolm was the guy who came in after after John. But Malcolm wasn't a visionary. Malcolm was an accountant. And when when the organisation any organisation any business gets big, then you very often need somebody else to take over. And there's lots of faction there at the time. You don't go into it in a great detail. That was enormous friction there and there's still enormous amount of bad blood between people. Laura Laker 9:46 Yeah, and it's interesting because Caroline Lovatt. Here's another key figure from fairly early on and still works with John today. On there, they're still building cycle routes under a different organisation, cycle routes and greenways and Um, she says that, you know, for for years, according to her, John kept disappearing from the kind of record of that of the history of the NCN on Wikipedia, she kept putting him back in. And um, yeah, I mean, the story was, and that was a difficult part of it to tell. But it was one that had to be mentioned, I didn't want to go too into it. But obviously, you know, John, leaving Sustrans under fairly strange circumstances, and really against his will, was was part of the story that needed to be told. And it was a different and I spoke to a number of people and nobody really, I think, you know, there were potentially nondisclosure agreements. And so nobody really talks about what exactly happened, which is why I call I mentioned the omerta. Because it really seems like everyone has a slightly different story, or, and I and again, I, you know, it's memory and it was a painful time. And it was a long time ago. And it's quite common, as you say, with new organisations, you've got this big driving force, but then sometimes they're not the person to carry on leading an organisation once the first major thing is done, and, you know, they might not be great with people is, you know, having a skill to start and drive something is not the same as being a sort of manager of people and diplomats. And it's, yeah, it's quite often it's a painful process, certainly not unique, I think. Carlton Reid 11:16 No, it's very common for that kind of thing to happen. However, saying that it's very important to recognise who was that visionary? And I think he lost an awful lot of that. So, so wonderful to see John. central to that. So that's really nice part of the book because I, you know, John, John is a wonderful, wonderful guy, and absolutely, this would not have happened without him. I know, there's lots of other people you know, David Sproxton, all these kind of people were there at the same time, George Ferguson. So So Sproxton was Aardman Animation. So people who know admire animation, George Ferguson, Mayor of Bristol, at one point, all these individuals were there at the time, but it needed that guiding force that needed that. Just somebody who woulda just said no, and just went ahead and did it. That was that was the ethos of Sustrans in the early days. So that Laura Laker 12:12 Yeah, yeah, because the status quo then as it is, today, is very much stacked against cycling routes happening. And so you kind of need a rebel who's not willing, who's you know, not willing to take no for an answer? Who's going to be able to make things happen? And I think in a way that kind of, I guess, you know, being from a fairly well off upper middle class background, you have the confidence really the education that kind of gives you that confidence and and then the character and self belief to just to drive that forward. Carlton Reid 12:47 Mmm. That you didn't mention not even once Cycling, Touring Club CTC cycling UK. Because the book isn't in all cycling, you are you are laser focused on the National Cycle network. But there was also friction between those two organisations, you know, stranden effect was an upstart organisation, then it got for £42.5 million with Meatloaf handing that over on TV or that kind of stuff. And there was there was an awful lot of friction between still is between strands and and what is today cycling UK. So you haven't got into that at all. What Why didn't you go into that? Is that just because you wanted to just stay laser focused on the cycle network? Laura Laker 13:36 I mean, I mentioned that not everyone felt that Sustrans was being helpful because they felt that cycle route should be delivered by government and charities stepping in. And taking that role almost allows the government to say, well, you know, someone's doing it. Now. We don't need to get involved. But I mentioned the kind of tension between certain types of cyclists. I think I might quote to you, I think I've got you in the references on that. But I mean, I don't know if I just don't know how. I don't know. It's yeah, it's a tricky one. It's how much to include, and you always have to make these decisions, what to include and what not to include, and I guess I just didn't feel like that was a key part of the story at all. There was some thinking at the time around that but and I'm aware that there was tension and I know that Mark Strong for one who gets quite a mention in the book, talked about Sustrans being too successful and not successful enough in that, you know, they were doing this job notionally? No, they were doing a great job for with what they had and who they were and ie not the government and with not very much money but they were doing enough just to allow the government to just say, You know what, well Sustrans is delivering the National Cycle network, tick, job done. Let's get back to the serious business of roads. Carlton Reid 15:01 because there is there is you meant we will get on to the very positive points, you've got like a bunch of what what do you call it in the book where you've got a whole bunch of asks basically? Oh, yeah, the manifesto, the manifesto. There you go. Number one, we'll go through these points. 10 point manifesto. So there's some positive stuff to talk about that. But you don't really mention that there's this that, you know, you're talking about, you know, this should be funded nationally, and there is that struggle, bear with you know, this is a charity, etc, etc. But then you've also got the weakness of you have actually got to at least have British Cycling as well, three competing organisations, going to government and asking for money for various things. And wouldn't it be nicer and more practical and may even get more stuff? If there's only one organisation so there is that there is the absolute fault line running through cycling? That is one of the reasons why it's very easy for the government to not do stuff because they're getting told different things by different organisations and one organisation saying don't back them back us. So there's that kind of friction there. Laura Laker 16:22 I don't know if that's if I see it that way. I mean, Sustrans cycling UK, and British Cycling, and things like livable streets are all part of the walking and cycling Alliance. And I think what that what that's trying to do is to unify the voice, because ultimately they want the same thing. I mean, British cycling's coming at it from a sports point of view. But recognising that its members also need safe roads to cycle on. And that means a whole host of other things, safe protected routes in cities. And that's popular with members. And then cycling UK, originally a touring group, now a charity that lobbies for Safe Routes, safe conditions, and also delivers stuff for government, such as what to fix your ride, and a bunch of other things. And then Sustrans is a National Cycle network and behaviour change programmes. So there are overlaps, but I do think they are distinct. And I don't see I don't see it as I mean, they probably have internal, you know, perspectives on things and perhaps don't always agree with what the other one was doing. But I think I think they tend to present a fairly unified front these days. Carlton Reid 17:30 They're not as bad nowadays. I mean, it's when you get rid of it certainly did not get rid. That's the That's the wrong phrase. When individuals leave organisations, it can change because a new people come in, and you know, those alliances are, that's what you're just used to. But you know, before that alliance was put in place, they were cats and dogs, they were really hating on each other and slagging each other off to government as well. So that's why government was able to go up. This cycling is just mad look, these these, you know, what they, these three cats in a sack just fighting each other. Laura Laker 18:03 And then you saw, I mean, I think I talked about, you know, Malcolm Shepherd, who was the CEO after John Grimshaw. He went to ministers, and he was saying, why aren't we getting the funding we asked for? Or why are we getting taken seriously, I think was the question. And he was told, Well, you don't ask for enough money, basically. So they were thinking and perhaps this kind of historic infighting is also a function of the fact that these were kind of fledgling organisations to an extent for some time, not very much funding. They were run by enthusiasts probably, who all had their own ideas. And of course, let's not forget that there were also the vehicular ISTS who didn't even believe that we needed cycling's of which I think cycling UK early on was one and that might explain why they disagree with Sustrans who were trying to yes, no, there was a whole cohort who stands for that reason, absolutely. 100%. So maybe that, you know, it perhaps is a function of just the whole movement being in its infancy. I mean, it's been going for a good 40 or so years, but I don't know, maybe it was maybe it was just run by enthusiasts for a very long time. And that's why it's taken a while to kind of mature but also I think it was going I mean, our cycling lobby, organisations were kind of leading the way for much longer than a lot of European countries in a nice talk about this in the book in countries like France and in the Netherlands and in Denmark, they all started their calls for National Cycle networks or at least safe routes, thanks to charities and voluntary organisations. And then fairly quickly, were all taken on by the government who saw this as a piece of infrastructure firstly, quite often for leisure, but then they realised people were using these routes for commuting trips, and it was it needed to be part of the infrastructure and was taken up with great enthusiasm and in Sweden as well. By the various local departments and regional governments and delivered quite quickly and at quite a kind of scale. And that hasn't really happened here. And so perhaps those kinds of just the longevity of those cycling groups being so crucial to anything that happens for cycling, has kind of made this whole, I don't know, split more important than it would have otherwise been. Carlton Reid 20:24 Yeah. And like in the Netherlands, the the organization's tried to fight against this, but the government tax cyclists, and cyclists actually paid for the roads. Laura Laker 20:34 They did, that's right. Carlton Reid 20:37 But it's the very fact and this was a cyclist at the time were fighting against, they didn't want to be taxed. In the UK, and the Netherlands, they were taxed. And then cyclists became national infrastructure. And that became critical, as you say, and the fact that you know, there wasn't, there was some national infrastructure, obviously, I've done this the 1930 cycleways project. But the CTC is the British Cycling as of the time fought against all of this, they fought against taxation, they fought against cycle routes. And so there is there is some argument to be made that cyclists have been their own worst enemy. So I know in the book, you're saying, you know, it's just such a no brainer. And it is to back, you know, for want of a better word or phrase active travel. Now, in the book, you've got various people are saying we should call it something different. Laura Laker 21:27 Yeah, Lee Craigie. Carlton Reid 21:27 yeah. Yeah. But, you know, cycling has been difficult, at the same time. And it's like, what's happening in Wales, and in Scotland, is inspiring, possibly, because it's actually coming from above. A lot of it, you know, there's obviously enthusiastic people working on the ground, etc. But a lot of this is coming from government ministers. So that helps. Yeah. And, Laura Laker 21:54 I mean, we have this idea, and I'm sure we're not alone. And this point you just made and the example of the taxing of the cyclists in the Netherlands, which is something I learned during doing the research for the book, I didn't actually know about this, but I, you know, the reason we lost the railways that then became a lot of these greenways was because, you know, we see transport as needing to wash its own face needing to fund itself. And the railways at the time, were losing money for most of the routes. And so that was the reasoning. And, you know, with roads, obviously, drivers are taxed it's not sort of ring fence funding. It's not a road tax, it's, but you know, it is making the Treasury money and cycling has never really done that. And I, I think fundamentally, the way that way of thinking about transport is wrong, because of the benefits, the much wider benefits that transport gives us in terms of, you know, being able to access education and health and social opportunities and for our physical and mental health. And it's, its benefits span far beyond its own kind of silo. But we don't really see it that way. And I'm not really sure actually, if anywhere managers to think of it this way, but I think post pandemic, things like free bus services and in different countries has maybe illustrated that people are starting to think about it differently. But ultimately, I think it's it's a very tricky one. Because like you say, we in a way we weren't, we were own worst enemy in terms of our predecessors in the cycling world. But we were working within philosophy that's that dictated that actually, if you're going to build something, you know, who's making money from it, or, you know, how is the Treasury getting that investment back and not really seeing it as this makes people healthier? Or this gives them opportunities or promotes businesses, local tourism? And all of this? So yeah, I mean, if we'd done it differently, who who knows of cyclists in the UK? So fine, we'll pay a tax. Who knows? We might have an NCN now, but, and even today, it's a little bit of an uncomfortable conversation, isn't it? Because, you know, nobody wants to be taxed. Carlton Reid 24:02 So the book is, it's a polemic in many ways, not not all the way through. But there are definitely bits in there that are strident. And I cannot argue with at all I'm reading it nodding along. And certainly the bits about like the national infrastructure, right, and it's all being spent on roads. And it's it's the so many reasons why that is crazy. Yeah, and why spending even just a fraction of the roads budget on on a national cycle network, you know, genuinely joined up one high quality would bring many more, many more benefits. And then you've got and the irony is, and I did a new story on this is, you have a government minister, who has written the foreword to your book, and he said This is not government minister, a former government minister, a former Transport Minister, Jesse Norman, and then it's like, why don't you do this when you're in power? It's great. You've said it. It's wonderful that you're saying all these things. But you could have done this, you could have pushed for this. And he was also the Financial Secretary of the Treasury. Yeah, he could have released money. Yeah, let me see what he says. But Laura Laker 25:26 it's so difficult, isn't it? And it's, again, it's kind of facing it's the status quo. I mean, it's, I think, maybe important to remember, and I'm not making excuses for anyone. But, you know, he was a junior minister, certainly in his first round is cycling minister. And so he would have had to tow the party line. So I don't know how easy it is for. I mean, he's a very intelligent guy. He cares about cycling. But then he's part of a system, which ultimately, I guess, maintains the status quo doesn't want to upset the applecart. And that's why, in the manifesto, I, you know, I think it's so important that people speak up for these things, because I think until there's an outcry for it, it's very difficult for any one minister, unless we have a cycling Prime Minister, to change all of this. There's a lot of vested interests in maintaining, you know, roads for cars, keeping car manufacturing, going and, you know, taxation on cars is going to be very problematic, because obviously EVs electric vehicles don't pay, you know, drivers with EVs don't pay cortex. So what's gonna happen there? But yeah, I mean, it's difficult, but I think people need to speak up for this kind of thing. We get a lot of kickback pushback from people when there's cycle routes coming. But those are the minority. And one thing I tried to highlight in the book is that most people want this once cycling routes, they they want other options and to drive. And, you know, between two thirds and four fifths of people in representative polls say that they'd support this and many of them, even if it meant taking road space away from motor vehicles. But that's not what politicians listen to. And I think increasingly, politicians are listening to angry people on Twitter. And you know, if Mark Harper's comments about LTNs and 15 minute neighbourhoods is anything to go by, which was straight out of the kind of conspiracy theorists, Twitter playbook, you know, they're listening to the loudest voices. And I think until people say, you know, we actually want choice. We don't want to have to breathe polluted air, we don't want to have our neighbourhoods dominated by motor vehicles. We want our kids to be able to go to school safely. I think it's gonna be difficult for things to change. Carlton Reid 27:45 Hmm. So you have mentioned a variety of routes that are actually pretty good. So yeah, Keswick one is one of them. Laura Laker 27:55 Threlkeld, yes. Carlton Reid 27:58 And that's why I know, I know the route well, as good as now, you know, a cycleway there because that was that was long in gestation. But basically, it's it's it's, it's popular. You know, people say, oh, like, but that's a popular route now, isn't it? Laura Laker 28:15 Yeah, yeah, people drive there. And I mean, that was that was interesting for a number of reasons. I mean, incredibly beautiful. It sort of weaves through Greta gorge, which is just this kind of just this amazing landscape, this sort of rocky river which meanders through this very deep wooded valley. And it's on a former rail line. And it was, which storm was it was it 2015, there was a big storm, which basically crumbled a couple of the bridges with the sheer volume of water that ended up going through this narrow gorge. And then it was out of action for a couple of years. And that was an important, crucial route and a tourist attraction for local businesses. One pub owner apparently offered the local council, I think it was the national parks something like 30 grand out of his own pocket, reopened the route, but it was actually a sort of 2 million pound job. So that wasn't going to go all the way. But you know, this was a really important tourist attraction for people and people drive there because there aren't safe routes to get to and from the ends, so people drive and park and then cycle along it and cycle back. But yeah, it's popular, it's really popular. And they when they put the bridges, the new bridges in Sustrans with various parts of funding, they resurfaced it and there was a big hoo ha about putting tarmac on instead of the gravel that had been there before. But that actually opened up it up to far more people, including people who use wheelchairs and mobility scooters, because any sort of rough surface or uneven ground can tip someone in a wheelchair and it effectively makes these routes unusable. And this is something that I really learned in the book and feel very strongly about now. And there was a big outcry nationally about tarmacking this path because it's in the Lake District and everyone's He has an opinion about the Lake District even if they've just been there once and we all feel like we own it because it's such a beautiful place and I guess rightly so. We all care about it. Carlton Reid 30:07 The Lakers. Laura Laker 30:09 Lakers, my people. Yeah. The people who holidayed in the lakes were known as the Lakers. Yeah, which is brilliant. So yeah, they, you know, they held their ground and they tarmac it and you know, the numbers increased drastically. And this story plays out all over the country, wherever there's a improve surface on a path. Suddenly, it's open to everyone. And this is what this is what cycle rich should be in, in my opinion, it should be open to everyone. Carlton Reid 30:37 Yeah, it's like the cinder path. That's the Sustrans route national cycling group from from Whitby to Scarborough. That was the one that had a load of of people complaining because Cinder path you know, they were going to be tarmacking just parts of it. And lots of people are saying you know but this this this will you know, destroy it or whenever lots of yobs in and it just never got done. And then it's it's impossible for a lot of the year because it's just it gets just too rutted into mud into too horrible. And this is, you know, we discard it would just be so easy. You know, between these two conurbations and small conurbations, if you could ride there on an all year round an all weather path? Laura Laker 31:21 So yeah, I do. I do worry about this, because it's, you know, they say it's an effect gentrification. And you're you're bringing, you know, urban into the countryside yet. There's roads everywhere, and they got tarmac on, and nobody seems to be kicking up a fuss there. What's What's your problem? Yeah, I know. And I think it's just we have this idea about what the cycle routes should be or could be, and we see them as leisure routes quite a lot of the time, we have this kind of set idea about cycling, that it's not, you know, it's not a commuter option, or, but you know, it is, but it goes beyond that. And it is about who can access these parts. And quite often, having an uneven surface will lock a lot of people out. And you know, we're an ageing population in this country. And as we get older, we will all have disabilities, and mobility issues. And it shouldn't be that you know, these paths are any open to a few people. But yeah, it's a difficult one. And we would like to say we've never think twice about it for roads, we've never think about having a road as a dirt path. And I can you know, visually tarmac is not a beautiful thing, but I think if people understood that actually, it's it's not just about the visuals. This is about people and this is what these parts are for they're for people. Carlton Reid 32:34 Well you can make if you want it to be just that colour, you can make the the asphalt you can you can you can dye the asphalt. So it's it's more expensive. But you can you can do all sorts of treatments you can do to make it all weather doesn't have to look, you know, black. Yeah. So anyway, so let's go to another assessment. That's some negative ones. Where they tried to be certain, but then you point out the Polgate one, between Polgate and Glynde, which is almost happened to you by by mistake. Not mistake, but it's certainly a by accident. Yeah. And you're talking about it being just brilliant. So describe that one. Laura Laker 33:11 That's amazing. Yeah. So I was told about this. And then I know someone who lives in Lewis, which is at one end of it. And so we we we met at the station and cycled along this path. And so it's beside the A27, which is a national highways road. And it's right by the sales downs, which is hugely popular with cyclists. And basically, there were so many people cycling on this incredibly terrifying road. It's one of those narrow and winding A roads with huge volumes of traffic. I mean, I went on a walking trip near Louis the other day, and I had to cross it with no crossing and it was it was genuinely terrifying. I can't imagine people cycling on it, because it's, you know, six months. So yeah, anyway, people were being held up in their cars because of people cycling. And so national highways decided it was going to build a path alongside and it's this this was a real eye opener for me because they had done what needs to happen around the country. They had built a path behind the hedge row, which is wide and tarmac and smooze with lots of planting and culverts and bridges over rivers and and they just laid it you know, very little problem. I don't know if they owned the land or perhaps compulsory purchase probably a mixture of I think it was a mixture of both. And so they built this amazing kind of 10 kilometre joyful route, which is just you know, it's just like a road. It's like no stress. You just carry on. There was someone on the mobility scooter the day I was there, a couple of people on bikes, but it was basically hadn't opened yet. And yeah, it was just there. But it's quite funny because at either end, it just stopped because then that's the local councils job to kind of deliver it beyond. But you know, it shows what's possible if you have a national body with the power and the funding, and they have, you know, multi year funding pots which helps plan and deliver this stuff and they just did it, they just sort of swept aside all of the normal problems that I talked about in the book that usually dog these cycle routes. And yeah, it's quite, it was quite marvellous, quite Carlton Reid 35:11 I found it fascinating because one of the things you say is, as we just mentioned there, it, it was an effective bill to get the cyclists off the road. We made enough nuisance of ourselves, that is 1930s to a tee, you know, the transport, you know, built those 500 miles of cycle tracks in the 1930s to Dutch standards laced around the country. Some of them weren't brilliant, but some of them were amazing, you know, 12 foot wide Dutch Dutch level, concrete curbs, you know, perfectly brilliant bits of cycling infrastructure that are now just some of them are white elephants, because they didn't link up to anywhere. But, you know, the government at the time said, Oh, we're doing this for the safety. No, they weren't they were doing it to you know, get cyclists on the road because we're slowing down motorists, but you kind of almost don't care if if if you get a really superlative route behind the hedgerows. Yeah. Okay. It's such a difference. Yeah. That's the difference. It's got to be good. You can't just fob you off with shared route pavement, which is what yeah, the criticism of Sustrans has been is like there's so many shared route pavement. And that's why Sustrans got a bad rap, even though it wasn't their fault. And they were just trying to fill in the gaps. Laura Laker 36:28 That yeah, yeah. And yeah, they just have to use whatever was there, which was quite often a pavement along what would have been a not too busy road in the 70s or 80s. But it's now a sort of thundering highway and being on a pavement with no barrier between you and or no, no sort of space between you and the 60 mile an hour traffic is far from pleasant, and no, no, no parent is going to choose to cycle on that. If they have any other choice, you know, they're going to avoid that like the plague because you know, one little wobble or mistake and then you know, it's horrific there, you know, possible outcomes. But yeah, it's you know, it's, it's fantastic. Because you don't even barely know the roads there. It's just cool. It's just gorgeous. I'd like to go back actually, because it's been a good year, I think since I saw it. At least actually. Maybe Yeah, I think it's at least a year and yeah, let's see how the trees are bedding in and because it was brand new at the time it just been done. But yeah, it is. Ultimately it is possible. And regardless of the motivations it just goes to show what's possible. I liked recently because Andy Streets and his Walking and Cycling Commissioner Adam Tranter he's on my podcast. They announced they're going to deliver the HS2 cycleway alongside in and around HS2 between Coventry and Birmingham. And when they get to Kenilworth, they're basically connecting up to one of their 1930 cycleways into Coventry. So I quite like that, you know, it's sort of linking something that's already there. And Carlton Reid 38:01 yeah, and that's also a John Grimshaw project, wasn't it? That was that was a John Grimshaw. Laura Laker 38:05 Yeah. He cycled the whole thing. Yes. Yes, he's been he's been trying to get that one, you know, for a lot for a long time. And yeah, it does stand alone. No, you need really, you need the HS2, of course, just stand alone without it. Carlton Reid 38:21 It does. Yeah, saying that, it would have absolutely been put in at the same time, that would not have been the difference. So that is point three. So in your 10 Point manifesto, that's basically work together a behind the hedgeroq Act, compulsory purchase orders, all these kinds of things that only government can do. Yeah. needs to be brought in into play. Yeah. And then you you've said and it's very ambitious. But when you think about it's like, yeah, you could do this easily. And that is you know, if if this was done and if money was provided, and compulsory purchase orders were put in like you would do for roads, you can have an unbelievably fantastic truly superlative national cycling in four years. Laura Laker 39:02 Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, Brian Deegan active travel England reckoned reckoned on this, because, you know, they have such a huge amount of power and to take go to build a cycle, which basically takes three years generally you do you have a year to kind of plan it a year to consult and tweak and then a year to build it. And for that you need multi year funding, because without that, you can't plan anything, basically. And that's why we've ended up bits and bobs of improvements, because it's like, you get the money, you have to spend it pretty much immediately. But yeah, I mean, the amount of funding a body like national highways has would be enough to you know, link these existing routes. Sometimes there are quiet roads, you know, I guess, in the Netherlands, you have through roads and access roads, things like low traffic neighbourhoods, in the countryside. That is a that is a kind of measure that you can do. And some of it it doesn't all have to be Are these sort of high quality pieces of massive engineering cycle routes, either behind the hedge row or on main roads? Some of it can just be tweaking kind of existing infrastructure so that it's not not every road as a through road. But yes, it's some it's amazing. And I kind of did a double take when I heard this. But when we put our mind to something, it's amazing what's possible. Carlton Reid 40:24 And potentially, we will see the fruits of this in Scotland, and Wales, Scotland, Wales are putting in some really ambitious stuff. And Mark Drakeford going, you know, will they backtrack on the 20 mile limit? And will they, you know, reverse a lot of stuff that Lee Waters that all this kind of stuff is potentially up in the air? We don't know yet. Yeah. But Scotland does seem to be, you know, putting their money where their mouth is, you know, that the amount of money that's going in there, per head, dwarfs what we see here in England. So the potentially you've got, you've got like, in five years, you could have something incredible. In Scottish cities in Glasgow. Yeah. You're talking about Glasgow? Laura Laker 41:09 Yeah. And yeah, Glasgow was amazing. I mean, that was the first time I'd been to Glasgow, on that trip. And I was blown away, actually. So they're developing a city wide network of routes, they're lowering in bridges across, they've got this very kind of, I guess, I guess they had this, at the time, they were building roads, they had a very ambitious programme of building like highways. And maybe that's about the culture of the city that when something comes along, when an idea comes along, they kind of embrace it. Whereas Edinburgh has historically been much more conservative. And so when, when highways when sort of urban highways came along the bond level load of those, and now cycling is seen as this big sort of saviour of health and climates and all of these important things, they're going all out on cycle routes, which is fantastic. And yeah, I was really blown away by what they're doing really high quality protected routes with planting alongside, you know, for extreme weather, it's really important to have permeable and green planting on tarmac. And, yeah, and these beautiful bridges and this massive bridge that I saw, and you know, they're really, really ambitious, I think, I've got a piece coming out about Edinburgh in the next week or so. And it talks about the difficulties that Edinburgh has faced very, very different than the city very conservative. But similarly, it's had a huge amount of funding. And I think they're finally getting to the tipping point there where they're starting to deliver real change, you know, hopefully. But yeah, it's, you know, the money's there, I think there's still difficulties with politics. So they've got these active freeways, which would be a kind of National Cycle network for Scotland, these rural routes, you know, the plan is there, or at least the idea is there, but it's not being rolled out yet. So who knows what's going to happen with that, but definitely, the funding and having that long term funding does make it much easier. I'd really love to see Scotland, you know, doing big things. And I think Scotland and Wales have been very, very forward thinking and a lot of things got maybe Scotland particularly, and more consistently than Wales, because as you say, there's a bit of a question mark. Now over Wales, they've, you know, they had the active travel act, they arguably took term coined the phrase active travel with the active travel act about a decade ago. And yeah, but stuff, you know, they have the policy, they had the money, but again, it's very, very slow to change. And I don't know, maybe they maybe if Westminster were a bit more proactive and supportive, it will be easier, who knows, but you're always going to come up against these kinds of difficulties, local politics and stuff, but I think money talks, you know, the money's there for it local investment, which Council isn't going to want public realm improvements, and you know, health. Carlton Reid 43:49 Money is number one, in your manifesto, so it's funded, and okay, we get the money from it. Here's what you say, stop expanding road capacity, and we have delivered a comprehensive network of cycling and walking routes. Hallelujah. Yeah, exactly. It's just like, you know, we've got so many roads, why can't we have more and more and more and more, as we know, it just fills up with traffic if we're gonna have build it and they will come Okay, let's do it for bikes. Now. You know, roads have had eighty years of this, let's have 10 years for for bikes, but walking and . It's just, it's a no brainer. And the LTNs thing kind of like it's so frustrating. Because we're only talking like a few streets. We're not we're not talking. That's when you hear you know, the the shock jocks you'd think is every single road in the country is going to be catered and you're going to hand it to cyclists. That's, that's how it's portrayed. And we're actually you know, maybe maybe a fraction of 1% of roads. really, genuinely is all too Talking about is currently got anyway. Yeah, having safe cycle routes, you know, don't get it get blown up by us people like us journalists, Laura, we're to blame for misrepresenting this. That's that's, that doesn't say good things about our profession, does it? Laura Laker 45:22 No. And I think I think I mean, it speaks to the kind of economics of journalism that, you know, people want eyeballs on stories nowadays because it's that's what makes advertising revenue funding for journalism is fallen off a cliff. And I think this is sort of desperation about the industry at the moment. But, you know, I think it's important to remember that the people shouting against this stuff are a minority, and most people want this stuff or are willing to try it and see, and most of us want quiet, safe streets, we want our kids to be able to play out in safety, we want clean air, we want, you know, peace and quiet. And I think because we haven't seen it, a lot of cases, it's difficult to imagine. But you know, ultimately, these things happen. There's, there's a pushback from a handful of people who are noisy, but I think if we have conversations about, you know, what we could, what we could get from these improvements from these schemes, then it's much positive way of talking about it. Of course, that's not how news works. And I think that's why we need leaders who are willing to sort of look beyond that short period in which a lot of journalists are shouting, and a few people, some of whom have genuine concerns and need to be listened to a shouting and listen to them. But you know, this is something that people want actually, and, you know, the benefits so enormous. Once it's happened, I don't think people would want to go back. Carlton Reid 46:46 Yeah, this is the thing. It's like, a good example is Northumberland Street and Newcastle, which is a pedestrianised street used to be the A1, you know, really the central state through the centre of Newcastle. It's I think, outside of central London, Mayfair on Oxford Street. It's the highest grossing per square foot retail zone in the country, because it was pedestrianised. And it just made it easier. And nobody in their right mind would say, we need to make that the a one again, guys, you know, let's get the cars and buses soaring and you just wouldn't do it. But Newcastle spent the best part of 20 years doing this, it wasn't an overnight thing. We had to spend a long time, a lot of angst getting it done, but nobody would wish it away now. And that's what when we're not getting with all these LTNs and all these cycles, if only if we put them in, nobody would complain about them. Not really not once they see it, it's just if people don't like change. Laura Laker 47:47 yeah, none of us like change just a thing. And it's hard to picture. And I think it's easy to dismiss people's concerns. Because you know, it's normal for us not to want change, it's normal to be concerned about something if you can't picture it. And you're, you know, many of these are genuine worries about businesses, and how will I get from A to B and, and all of this, but yeah, I think what's been lacking in this conversation is just some sort of grown up honesty about, you know, this is going to be a change. But ultimately, it's going to be one that's positive for these reasons. We, you know, we are going to listen, but ultimately, this is a an agenda that most of us support. And we know it's beneficial for these reasons. And I think we've I don't know, I think there's too much government in this country, and in many English speaking countries, kind of almost government by fear of what the Daily Mail might say, in response to this policy. And even the the recent announcement by governments about you know, stopping anti motorist measures was all caps. You know, it was like almost a Daily Mail headline. Carlton Reid 48:52 Yeah, it's quite scary and sad. Yeah. But then, you know, like you say, if you know, for the ones that hold their ground, you know, stuff dies down, people say actually, that actually is much better. So you know, where I'm coming from, I know where you're coming from. And you're saying people want this, but I'm gonna play devil's advocate here and say, Well, no, they don't people want to drive around. And if you're a woman at night, and you describe a lot of the routes, the Sustrans routes, the Nationals, you wouldn't want to go there at night, and probably no matter how much lighting security whatever you put in, you probably would still feel that way. In. Yeah, yeah. On a bicycle, you're not protected. Whereas a car, a woman, a single woman can get into a car can lock the door, can maybe have, you know, dark windscreen even so nobody knows who's in there. You then become this powerful individual who can get around in safety at the end of the day. But bicycles aren't like that, Laura. So you're you're basically making it more insecure for women to go about as independent beings. Laura Laker 50:11 Well, so as a as a woman who cycles on her own at nights that that route from Arnhem to Nijmergen in the in the Netherlands, so I ended up leaving that event and it was dark and cycling home on my own however far it was, it's a good hours ride along these routes, but because you don't have to stop, you actually feel safe. It's only when you have to stop that you start to feel unsafe in my experience. I mean, there's certain routes like along the canal, I live in East London, along the Li River that I have cycled at night, but wouldn't do now. Because you know, that is very isolated. And people have been known to jump out with bushes. But I think for the large part, if they're well designed, and other people are using them, then cycling at night for me isn't a problem. You know, you're moving you're Yeah, I don't Yeah, I very rarely felt in danger of cycling through London at night, for example. I mean, it's been the odd park where I felt a bit sketchy, but I think if you design them, well, not every path is going to feel that way safe at night. But I think in urban places where a lot of people will be cycling to and from at night, it will probably be fine. I mean, you probably feel quite safe. It's about kind of eyes on the streets in a way having people they're with you. Yeah, and I think if a route were well used enough, and don't forget, you know, if you're, if you're, you know, you're not going to necessarily, you're not going to drive home after a night out if you've had a drink. And so you will have to sort of walk a section of your journey. Most likely, if you're in a place like London, you hate taking public transport, maybe you take a taxi, but I feel I don't feel like if I'm on a busy road, walking alone at night that I am safe with those other people around me because I don't feel like people who are driving through again to necessarily stop and help me if something did happen. So I think kind of busy streets can feel unsafe, even though they're very highly populated. And, you know, theoretically, and this kind of, there's been research on this, you know, people who live on quiet streets, no more of their neighbours, this sort of social safety element, and people start looking out for each other. Whereas if you have a traffic dominated environment, it's people tend to turn away from the street. Carlton Reid 52:28 Yeah, I don't disagree. But if it is looking at the motivation of many, many people, I mean, humans are generally lazy. Yeah. They generally want comfort. They want their own things, and they want security, all of those things you have in spades in cars. The downside is, because everybody wants that. And everybody's in a car, it means you don't get anywhere. Unknown Speaker 52:57 Yeah, I don't think that's a whole story. I mean, I think a lot of the time people drive because the alternative is either aren't there don't feel possible, or they don't feel safe. So cycling on the road wouldn't feel safe, you wouldn't even most people wouldn't even consider it. But we've seen I grew up in rural West Somerset, and you had to learn to drive as soon as you turn 17, you would take your test, you buy a car, and you drive everywhere, because the buses mean the buses are even worse. Now. They were okay at the time, but not great. But they just took longer, and you couldn't get everywhere you needed to go my friends as a teenager lived in variable kind of communities. And so you had to drive there was just no other option I would have loved to cycle. And you've seen in London, where we've got a growing network of roots, suddenly, all these people from all walks of life, all kinds of demographics. Laura Laker 53:48 genders, you see a much better one gender split, but also all types of people cycling. And that kind of speaks to the fact that actually, people do want to do this and they may want to convenience but they also want to enjoy their journey. They also want to save money. Cycling can be incredibly convenient, no parking worries, it's so much cheaper you know you don't have to stress of finding a parking space or you know, paying vast amounts of money. I think something like I forget the number who in transport poverty in this country because of cars basically. They spend something like 19% of their income on their car with finance lorry, using facts to convince me that's Carlton Reid 54:36 Anybody can convince with facts, come on. At that juncture, I'd like to go across to my colleague David in America. Take it away, David. David Bernstein 54:45 This podcast is brought to you by Tern Bicycles. Like you, the folks at Tern are always up for a good outdoor adventure by bike—whether that's fishing, camping, or taking a quick detour to hit the trails before picking Unknown Speaker 55:00 up the kids from school. And if you're looking to explore new ground by taking your adventures further into the wild, they've got you covered. The brand new Orox by Tern is an all-season, all-terrain adventure cargo bike that's built around the Bosch Smart System to help you cross even the most ambitious itinerary off your bucket list. It combines the fun of off-road riding in any season with some serious cargo capacity, so you can bring everything you need—wherever you go, whenever you go. Plus, it's certified tough and tested for safety so your adventures are worry-free. With two frame sizes to choose from and a cockpit that's tested to support riders of different sizes, finding an adventure bike that fits you and your everyday needs has never been easier with the Orox. Visit www.ternbicycles.com/orox (that's O-R-O-X) to learn more. Carlton Reid 56:04 Thanks, David. And we are back with Laura Laker the Laker people. And she's the author of potholes and pavements a bumpy ride on Britain's National Cycle network. It's not actually out yet, isn't Laura. It's actually middle middle of the next month, middle of night. Hmm. Yeah. So you having a launch day what you're doing? Laura Laker 56:28 Yeah, I've got some. You've got like, You got speaker a bank and tell us tell us what you're doing? Yeah, so I've got I'm having like a bit of a party for some friends and family. And then I've got a talk in Stanford's in Covent Garden. I'm speaking in Parliament. But I think that's more of a parliamentary event. And I have got an event at Stanfords in Bristol with Xavier Bryce, we're going to discuss the future of the NCN. I've got one I'm speaking in Oxford, at a bookshop. I'm going to be interviewed by Emily Kerr, who's a green Councillor there. I have got a there's a literary festival in Wantage in November. And we're looking at other events as we speak. Carlton Reid 57:16 Excellent. And this is two hundred and .... All right, I'm going to deliver the end of the book. We're talking 264 pages, and then you've got references back. I mean, one of them. Thank you very much. Laura Laker 57:32 Yeah. Carlton Reid 57:34 Thanks. as well. Yes, at the back there, but there's, there's lots in this. So who's gonna be? Who's your audience? Who's gonna be reading this? Who do you think will be reading this? And what might actually could it start something big with with in politics? Can we could we get this like your manifesto? Can it get out there? What do you hope to happen with your book? Laura Laker 58:00 Yeah, well, obviously, I want everyone to read it. I mean, my editor at Bloomsbury was saying, you know, it's probably going to be cycling enthusiasts, people who I guess already, maybe listen to your podcast, my podcast, read our articles about cycling. But I would like to think that you know, these people, these two thirds to four fifths of people who want more cycling people who think, you know, why do I have to drive everywhere? Why aren't there safe cycle routes? Why can't my kids cycle to school, and see that might see this book and think, Oh, this is going to tell that story, this is going to explain it to me. And so I hope that it's going to give people a sense of kind of why we are where we're at, with the history of the NCN and the stories, but also, you know, how wonderful it could be if we had this thing, this network of connected routes, if it were possible for all of these people who say they want to cycle and more who maybe don't even know they want to cycle could do so. And I hope that, you know, my perhaps naive hope is that people will read it and think, you know, this could be such a wonderful thing, why aren't we doing it? And how can we get it to happen and I hope policymakers you know, we've got an election coming up I think this speaks to you know, forget the culture wars. I think this speaks to all sides, you know, of politics, I think, you know, individual freedom and choice is a conservative value, right? Cycling, cycling delivers on that. Carlton Reid 59:26 Cycling is so libertarian is a form of transport I've had many conversations This is freedom. Why is this left wing? Why do people always assume it's just this thing? Laura Laker 59:42 Yeah, it's become a cultural thing. And it's only for I think, you know, certain factions of the right perhaps see this as a wedge issue. And a way of you know, rallying people around them on based on kind of outrage like false outrage really, untruthes. and you You know, in terms of the left, this is, you know, great value for money, the Labour Party is very, very keen on showing they're working and proving to people that they can be trusted with the economy. It delivers on the green agenda, it's so beneficial in terms of cutting carbon emissions, it delivers on health, pretty much every department that we can think of this offers people access to work, you know, so many people who are out of work, especially in rural communities can't even afford to go and find work or stay in a job because the transport is too expensive, or it's too patchy doesn't go in and they needed to go. So there's like barely a thing that this doesn't touch. And I really hope that you know, along with kind of griping, which is, I hope not too much of the book, and the polemic side that this shows actually, you know, this is great for tourism, this is great for our mental health. This can bring us together, you know, it's about in Scotland, I saw that a cycle route can be a linear park, it can be about artwork and community. It can bring people together from different walks of life around a space. And, you know, cycling delivers on these things. And, you know, if we kind of dropped the culture was narrative, which is nonsense. You know, we could see all of these benefits fairly quickly and for very little money, and have a far better country for it. Carlton Reid 1:01:18 Many people would baulk at having Boris Johnson back. And you do mention this in the book of what he and Andrew Gilligan were able to do. Hopefully, it doesn't seem like I want him back. But will it that that is what you need. I mean, you do talk about having a cycling Prime Minister, we had a cycling Prime Minister, we had a Prime Minister who said it was me a golden age for cycling. So we need we need him back. Laura, that we just we need we need Boris back. No, we don't like that back there. Are there other other politicians are available? We just need people to believe in it. And you know, I hope that people read the book and think, actually, this is something we can believe in, but don't need one of the good things about Boris Johnson. Not only did he you know, talk, the talk, walk the talk, all that kind of stuff. But he was right wing. So he could he just instantly takes away that that part of this oversight is a left wing things like well, here's this right wing politician who's pushing for this Andrew Gilligan, Telegraph writer. These are not left wing people in any way, shape, or form. So is that what we need we actually need and then we'd like all politicians to do this, but by the same thing, you need somebody almost on the opposite side to be doing this, they've got more chance of pushing this through. So that's why Boris Johnson did so well, because he was right wing and the Mail isn't gonna, you know, rail against what Boris Johnson was doing. They never did. Laura Laker 1:02:46 They did though. They did. They totally did. I don't think they discriminated against him because he was towards their political leanings. I mean, it's unlikely we're going to have another conservative government, right, when we've got the election coming up, it's going to be Labour by all likelihood. And so they're going to be the ones in power delivering. So I don't know, Carlton Reid 1:03:09 But they backtracked over their green policies. I mean, what hope do we have? Laura Laker 1:03:12 I know I know. I know it's incredibly disappointing. And the thing is this this stuff like the green agenda, more broadly investment in insulating homes, for example, is such great return on investment and if they're thinking about finances and showing they're working insulating homes is just a total no brainer. You know, we all pay far too much for our energy bills. We live in draughty leaky homes. So many houses are mouldy because of the cold walls are damp Yeah, I just think you know, and green technology, huge growth industry. Solar and wind where you know, we're windy little island, but a lot of coastline. Offshore wind is fantastic. Carlton Reid 1:03:55 But in your in the book, you show how national highways basically is an organisation set up to build roads. And once you've done something like that, and that's their raison d'etre. Guess what they're going to build roads. Yeah. So yeah, it's that oil tanker you know having to put the brakes on and change a whole culture so we're not talking about you know, Cuz your manifesto is saying you know, stop funding this and yeah. Laura Laker 1:04:28 Wales did this basically with their no more roads or no more roads and less they increased active travel and public transport policy. They basically have kind of repurpose their national highways body around this agenda, you know, fill in the potholes. We've got a road in a dreadful state and, you know, develop use all their skills and power and funding for active travel. You know, public transport in this country is drastically underfunded. Buses are so important, especially in rural areas, especially people on low incomes, especially for women and Do you know buses are so important? We're really, really not kind of reaping the power the massive power of the bus.? Carlton Reid 1:05:08 Yeah, that's in your book as well, because you're talking about how buses, you know, need to be able to carry bikes. Yeah. And that's, you know, that's a small part of what they could do but the broader transport perspective that's that's so impor

In this episode, we're excited about two new books: Piglet by Lottie Hazell and Local: A Search for Nearby Nature and Wildness by Alastair Humphreys. Then Dave tells us about the awesome Stanfords bookshop. This episode is brought to you by BetterHelp. Give online therapy a try at betterhelp.com/StrongSense and get on your way to being your best self. Links Piglet by Lottie Hazell — audiobook Piglet by Lottie Hazell — print Local: A Search for Nearby Nature and Wildness by Alastair Humphreys Stanfords Map and Travel Bookshop Edward Stanford Travel Writing Awards 2024 Wikipedia: Edward Stanford Travel Writing Awards Transcript of this episode. The Library of Lost Time is a Strong Sense of Place Production! https://strongsenseofplace.com Do you enjoy our show? Want access to fun bonus content? Please support our work on Patreon. Every little bit helps us keep the show going and makes us feel warm and fuzzy inside - https://www.patreon.com/strongsenseofplace As always, you can find us at: Our site Instagram Patreon Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Det klassiska Marshmallowexperimentet vid Stanfords universitet var ett experiment som utfördes i olika varianter mellan 1968 och 1972. Experimentet var ett test på självkontroll, och totalt 550 barn i fyra och femårsåldern deltog i studierna. Vad kunde man egentligen utläsa av dessa Marshmellowexperiment? Och vad har kommit fram sedan dess?Wikipedia säger sitt om Marshmallowexperimentet vid Stanfords universitet. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

In this episode, we delve into the transformative hospitality and strong convictions of Jeff Stanford, co-owner (with his wife Joan) of the Stanford Inn in Mendocino, California. They are not just passionate about providing a great guest experience; they're committed to promoting plant-based eating, local travel, and a connection with nature. Join us as we explore how the Stanfords are using their inn as a tool to inspire positive change in the world.What did you think about this episode? Join the Hospitality Daily community on LinkedIn and share your thoughts. If you care about hospitality, check out the Masters of Moments podcast where Jake Wurzak interviews top leaders in hospitality. His conversations with Bashar Wali and Matt Marquis are a great place to start, but also check out his solo episodes such as how he underwrites investment deals and a deep dive into GP fees you know about. Music by Clay Bassford of Bespoke Sound: Music Identity Design for Hospitality Brands

The fact that we even have to have this conversation is sad. But here we are. A look at the HOW and WHY we have widespread justification, apathy, or condoning of Hamas and the brutal massacre of Jews in the War in Israel. What has gone so awry in the hearts and minds of America's youth that they actually celebrate terrorism? From the Harvards to the Stanfords... spare your wallet from these trash institutions.  --- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/taylor-ferber/support

Last week we had Dr. Thom Golden on as we started a conversation on college admissions.  Today is Part 2 where we get into the nitty gritty.  It might seem like college has gotten so expensive and is getting out of reach or “not worth it.”  While even Dr. Thom shares that it's an individual decision, there is more upside to the equation.  Find out about the “best price” of college which is different from the sticker price and how it's actually trending down.  While there are the Stanfords of the world that have an extremely low acceptance rate, most colleges are NOT super selective.  While the parent portion of the college debt load averages out to 29K, there are many ways to avoid this scenario.  Tune in for an interview chock full of powerful tips on saving money and maximizing the experience.  Much of this information will be useful whether you have kids entering college or not.  Listen to this episode, apply what you learn, and teach it to others. By the way, be sure to connect with me on Instagram! Listen and grow! Your Financial Coach, Billy  P.S. If you or someone you know is looking for a plan to dial in your finances and achieve some financial freedom, book a short call with me here

et klassiska Marshmallowexperimentet vid Stanfords universitet var ett experiment som utfördes i olika varianter mellan 1968 och 1972. Experimentet var ett test på självkontroll, och totalt 550 barn i fyra och femårsåldern deltog i studierna. Vad kunde man egentligen utläsa av dessa Marshmellowexperiment? Och vad har kommit fram sedan dess?Wikipedia säger sitt om Marshmallowexperimentet vid Stanfords universitet. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

With 1/3rd of the 2022 college football season in the books, we review how the Huskies have done in the first four games and how they have owned opponents with the word “State” in their name, how impressive it was guarding against a Stanford letdown, and how sweet the offense looks. Plus we look to October's schedule and teams that concern us, new expectations given the hot start, and an update on those burger bets! Washington defeats Kent State 45-20 https://www.espn.com/college-football/game/_/gameId/401403973 Washington defeats Portland State 52-6 https://www.espn.com/college-football/game/_/gameId/401403983 Washington defeats #11 Michigan State 39-28 https://www.espn.com/college-football/game/_/gameId/401403994 #18 Washington defeats Stanford 40-22 https://www.espn.com/college-football/_/gameId/401404001 Huskies get two 2024 commits: ATH Landon Bell, Liberty (Henderson, NV) (projects to play WR) DE Jaxson Jones, Yuma Catholic (Yuma, AZ) (Edge) https://247sports.com/college/washington/Season/2024-Football/Commits/

In this episode we chat with Cole Sprout, one of Stanfords big three, as he and the Cardinal eye history this November in Stillwater. Listen now to hear Cole talk about his team and the pursuit of excellence.

Diversity Matters with Oscar Holmes IV Season 3 Episode 1 Episode Title: The Standardized Testing Problem Guest: Mr. Akil Bello   Diversity Matters with Oscar Holmes IV is a podcast that explores all things diversity, equity, and inclusion (DEI) related. In each episode, Oscar and his guests have lively discussions around DEI topics, explore the latest research on the topic, and discuss the implications so that listeners will be more knowledgeable about the topics and be able to apply the insights to their lives.   Show Summary: “Even if the score has improved, it's the same kid; it's the same person with almost the same knowledge.”   Test or exam preparation is what students go through to increase their performance on standardized tests, usually for college university admissions. While the fair test is an advocacy organization that advocates for more limited, more reasonable & transparent use of standardized assessments, from K10 through 16. The movement supports the push not to administer standardized tests during a pandemic, to help students get better results on their exams.   As we all know, the test measures performance under intense pressure, influenced by some sampling of the things learned from K 10. Sadly, the test isn't decoupling one's actual knowledge and abilities from the secondary elements, which are time pressure & societal pressure. And that negatively affects someone's performance during the test.   That's why Mr. Akil Bello, an educator, entrepreneur, and testing expert, deep dives into why he is a big critic of the test preparation industry while being a test consultant & a fair test advocate at the same time. In this episode, he talks to us about the most significant issues with standardized testing, specifically for college university admissions. And he shares what institutions can do in higher education to make admissions more equitable.   3 Exceptional Highlights:   If you isolated any particular part of basketball, let's say free throw shooting, would you use free throw statistics as the way to choose your NBA franchise? That's what essentially everyone who puts significant weight on the test is doing. All highly speeded high pressure, high stakes, standardized tests have something in common & that is there is a signal-to-noise ratio, which is unclear at best. And I would argue there's more noise than signal for many constituencies. Varsity blues is a representative of where we've reached in higher education. And it's part of the problem. Every day, families are doing variations of Varsity blues on different scales. Show Highlights:   How Mr. Akil Bello got into the test prep consulting industry   2:27 Mr. Akil Bello   My entry into test prep was motivated by poverty & supported by nepotism. As a poor college kid, I needed money. I was studying architecture, but I wanted a part-time gig. So I went to my aunt and asked her if she could help me out. She pointed me to the Princeton Review and told me to use her name, and I got a job. That led to a total of 17 years working with them.   You are known for calling elite, highly selective schools like Harvard and Stanford “highly rejective.” Can you explain why using this language and new framing is important to you?   19:13 Mr. Akil Bello   One of the biggest problems in education is conflating historical advantage and wealth with educational quality. Just like your casual use of the word elite right now, I never use the word elite because it yields the position of power and respect to these institutions.     You were an expert contributor on Netflix's Operation Varsity Blues, a documentary highlighting the elite college admissions scam. Please help us understand why and how something like this can occur.   28:31 Mr. Akil Bello   CAPITALISM and AMERICA. To me, the entire scam is interesting. Because you have families who have a disposable X, hundreds of 1000s of dollars, this was money available for bribes. This is disposable income that was somehow, rather than giving it to the child to invest or giving it to them in a trust fund, it was worth spending this money to get this particular university sticker on the back of your car.   Why should the general public care about not getting into their top-choice school or some highly rejective school they wanted to go to?   21:16 Mr. Akil Bello   Oh, they shouldn't care. I think that the Stanfords of the world command far too much attention and brand recognition. I think that far too much attention these places receive is the country club effect. It's the exclusion that creates the aura of "Oh, we want to join." And I think that that's the problem. And I would never join a country club.   What should we do in higher education to make admissions more equitable?    35:07 Mr. Akil Bello   Interrogate your policies for historical bias.   Are the policies and the requirements of my admissions process those that advantage students with wealth and access?   Is it a necessary component of the process that helps select the most prepared students?   And I would argue that in most cases, these policies aren't.   Legacy admissions are problematic. How about we just get rid of that?   Important Links:     Call to Action: Subscribe to Diversity Matters and get exclusive access to all episodes of Beyond the Mill, which is my live diversity dialogues talk show that I host on campus at Rutgers University-Camden.   Episode Sponsor Links:     Producer Links:   Host Social Media Links:   Subscribe to Diversity Matters Apple | Google | Spotify | Stitcher  

Det klassiska Marshmallowexperimentet vid Stanfords universitet var ett experiment som utfördes i olika varianter mellan 1968 och 1972. Experimentet var ett test på självkontroll, och totalt 550 barn i fyra och femårsåldern deltog i studierna. Vad kunde man egentligen utläsa av dessa Marshmellowexperiment? Och vad har kommit fram sedan dess?Wikipedia säger sitt om Marshmallowexperimentet vid Stanfords universitet. See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information.

Elijah Higgins is an elite Wide Receiver at the University of Stanford. He grew up playing high school football at Bowie in Texas, where he was the #14 Receiver in the country for the 2019 class. During his Stanford Career he has 59 Rec, 678 yds, 11.5 avg, 4 TDs in just 2 seasons, as well as player of the game in Stanfords upset of #3 Oregon. He has recently announced that he is returning for his senior season where he will increase his draft stock as well as graduate with a degree in Psychology.Grayson Fisher and Zach Watts sit down with Elijah and talk about his high school career, why he chose Stanford, the complexity of the new NIL deals, the behind of the scenes of players fighting for their rights, the complexity of recruiting, the mental/psychological aspect of not only football but life, and much more!!

The Stanfords are franchisors of Club Pilates. They are enjoying the freedom of being business owners as they are taking steps to shift the culture of business practices. Jennifer and Mitchell both can agree that this venture was worth the leap. Credits: Hosted by Meg Schmitz Produced by Kacia Huynh and Porsha Williams Gates of Porshanality Media, LLC Editing by Kacia Huynh of Porshanality Media, LLC

The Stanfords are franchisors of Club Pilates. They are enjoying the freedom of being business owners as they are taking steps to shift the culture of business practices. Jennifer and Mitchell both can agree that this venture was worth the leap.Credits:Hosted by Meg SchmitzProduced by Kacia Huynh and Porsha Williams Gates of Porshanality Media, LLCEditing by Kacia Huynh of Porshanality Media, LLC

This week we discuss Stanfords miserable loss to Arizona State on the road, but take solace in the knowledge that the North sucks! We also look ahead to our game at Washington State this Saturday, hoping to break a 4 game losing streak to the Cougs. (apologies for any weird audio this week, we were recording and editing under abnormal conditions.)

Hva forteller forskningen oss om unges medievaner under pandemien? Vi snakker om digitale medier og effekten på unges psykiske helse, jenter og gaming, digital dømmekraft og nasjonal strategi for trygg digital oppvekst med én av de norske forskerne på Universitetet i Stanfords liste over verdens høyest rangerte forsker

01:49 - Kurt’s Superpower: Lifting Others Up: “A rising tide lifts all boats.” 07:00 - “Self-Taught” vs “Self-Guided” vs “Self-Motivated” Developers 11:32 - The Intersection of Incarceration and Technology * Destigmatizing Incarcerated Folx * Hiring the Formerly Incarcerated * Providing Stability to Folx Coming Out of Incarceration 22:15 - Having Privilege Working in DevRel to Raise These Issues * Bias and White Privilege 26:51 - Helping and Advocating For the Formerly Incarcerated 29:32 - The Interview Process as it Relates to the Formerly Incarcerated * Background Checks * Rolling Jobs 36:26 - Always Be Applying (ABA); Technical Interviews and Fabrication/Bending Truths * Voluntary Disclosure: I'm an Impostor - Incarceration and Living a Lie (https://theworst.dev/im-an-impostor) 45:29 - Problematic Binary Identities 47:07 - What can companies and hiring managers do? / Problems with Hiring in Tech and Tech Interviews * Make No Assumptions * Avoid Feigned Surprise * Don’t Treat People Differently * Don’t Take Advantage * Don’t Interrogate 01:05:19 - Contextualizing Advice Reflections: Kurt: Community is what you surround yourself with. Laurie: Having empathy and understanding as a hiring manager for people who have perceivably negative things in their background. Jacob: Polyglotism and not being so gatekeep-y. John: Being reminded of how terrible our carceral state is here in the U.S. This episode was brought to you by @therubyrep (https://twitter.com/therubyrep) of DevReps, LLC (http://www.devreps.com/). To pledge your support and to join our awesome Slack community, visit patreon.com/greaterthancode (https://www.patreon.com/greaterthancode) To make a one-time donation so that we can continue to bring you more content and transcripts like this, please do so at paypal.me/devreps (https://www.paypal.me/devreps). You will also get an invitation to our Slack community this way as well. Transcript: PRE-ROLL: Whether you're working on a personal project or managing enterprise infrastructure, you deserve simple, affordable, and accessible cloud computing solutions that allow you to take your project to the next level. Simplify your cloud infrastructure with Linode's Linux virtual machines and develop, deploy, and scale your modern applications faster and easier. Get started on Linode today with $100 in free credit for listeners of Greater Than Code. You can find all the details at linode.com/greaterthancode. Linode has 11 global data centers and provides 24/7/365 human support with no tiers or hand-offs regardless of your plan size. In addition to shared and dedicated compute instances, you can use your $100 in credit on S3-compatible object storage, Managed Kubernetes, and more. Visit linode.com/greaterthancode and click on the "Create Free Account" button to get started. JACOB: Hello, everybody and welcome to Episode 226 of Greater Than Code. My name is Jacob Stoebel and I’m joined with my co-panelist, John Sawers. JOHN: Thank you, Jacob and I’m here with Laurie Barth. LAURIE: Thanks, John. I’m excited to introduce our guest today, Kurt Kemple. Kurt Kemple is a technical writer, speaker, and software developer living in Virginia Beach, Virginia. He’s very passionate about the intersection of technology and incarceration. Currently, he works for Apollo GraphQL, as a Developer Relations Manager and when not working he can be found by the ocean or relaxing with his family, which sounds really incredible. So Kurt, I'm going to have you start us off by answering the question we ask all of our guests, which is what is your developer superpower? KURT: Well, first thank you for that awesome introduction. It's a pleasure to be here. So diving into what is my superpower, I thought about this a lot and I'm not really someone who I feel has some innate skill or ability that really makes me stand out in any particular area. But I think one thing that I do really well is I care very much about lifting up the people around me. I work actively to generally help others more than I'm helping myself. I think the rising tide lifts all boats kind of mentality and I think that that is definitely something that sets me apart is I gauge my success by how successful folks around me are. JACOB: That sounds fantastic. Was that something you felt like you've always done, or was it something do you consciously develop, or did it just sort of come around? KURT: I think it evolved out of situations in my life. I've dealt with a lot of stressful situations and pretty tough upbringing and I think a lot of it is just finding opportunities to make sure people don't have to experience those things and not being so drastic that it's always in relation to something very life altering. But there's something about removing roadblocks for other folks that you have the ability to do that is very rewarding to me and I think I just started to realize that later in life that that's something I value greatly. LAURIE: That's really interesting to hear because I think in a lot of areas of technology and in the industry, we often hear people saying like, “I had to do it, so you have to do it, too.” I've heard that with sort of the toxic interview, it's almost like hazing mentality and the tools may be abstracted, but if you don't know the super, super low-level piece of it, then you're never going to understand it the way I do sort of mentality. A lot of this gatekeeping stuff comes from that. So it's really refreshing to hear that you feel sort of the opposite of that. KURT: Yeah. Like I remember very distinctly, many times starting out programming, like getting the response: RTFM. It's like, people, they don't want to help for whatever reason. They want you to – it's like almost like a badge of honor; forcing folks to figure things out for themselves. There's something to be said with taking on learning as your own responsibility, but part of learning is knowing how to get answers and ask for help when you aren't figuring it out and so, I definitely really cannot stand to see that kind of lift the ladder up behind me mentality, or pull yourself up by the bootstraps type mentality. JACOB: So who are those people around you in your role with Apollo? Who are the people that you would measure the success of? KURT: Yeah. So it's actually spread out across multiple things, but I'll start from Apollo. I'm a manager of the developer relations team so definitely my direct reports absolutely care about how well they are doing as well as the DX organization, it extends out to their world. We're all part of developer experience and we want to make sure that things we're doing is helping lifting up the education team and DX as a whole. And then of course, that spreads out into Apollo, which is just by helping developers be successful with Apollo, we're actually helping a policy succeed. But when we talk about developer relations, really that's just communities I'm involved with at all. So that could be anybody from the communities that I'm a part of, whether that's content creation, DevRel, things around GraphQL, or developments, it could be anything related to that. Pretty much any person that I have interaction with, I start to look at ways in which I can help them move forward. JOHN: It's funny the phrase “bootstrap” is so embedded in our culture because it's coming from – it’s technical terminology at this point, but it's so interesting and I think important to think back to the origin of that phrase, “pull yourself up by your bootstraps” was satirical because it's obviously, not possible to do that for you. You can't lift yourself by grabbing your boots and that's the whole point, but it's almost like turned over on itself and becoming oh, that's just what you do as economic policy or a social policy despite the fact that it was originally the complete opposite of that. KURT: Yeah. It's funny. I never really thought about that, but it's very true. They took something that was meant to be like satire, like, “Oh yeah, just pull yourself up by your bootstraps,” and then turned it into something serious. I still view it as satire. To me, it's the silliest phrase ever, but a lot of folks take that very seriously. JACOB: What else is satire or was originally satire was the word, “meritocracy”? KURT: Oh wow. JACOB: Yeah. It was basically like oh, the new aristocracy of people who think they're on top because of their merit; it's the meritocracy. It's something else I think about is the phrase self-taught; ex self-taught developer, self-taught engineer, or the million Medium posts of how I taught myself to code in 12 weeks. What does that mean, taught yourself? Do you have no interactions with any human? JOHN: You didn’t think a human produced? LAURIE: Yeah. The self-taught thing is actually really complicated and nuanced in my mind because a lot of people like to claim it and say, “Well, we're all self-taught because we all read blog posts and have to teach ourselves other things because as a developer, you're always learning new things and so, we can all claim that title.” And then there's the area of people who consider themselves self-taught, but they were working one-on-one through DMs with someone that is a working developer and they know really well. But then there's actually a last category of people, which is what I feel the label was sort of designed for, which is they never had any formal classroom experience that taught them like, the variable goes on the left side of the expression. So they had to learn just those super fundamental syntactical things through reading and through example videos and potentially sometimes asking questions, but it was a very async process. I think that's what self-taught is designed to imply that there wasn't a curriculum laid out in front of them and that they didn't have a helping hand along the way. I think there's something incredibly powerful about that and I hate the idea that it's been co-opted as well, everyone's self-taught, I'm like, “No, I got to sit in a computer science program and have teachers tell me what I needed to know in a certain order.” Was that necessarily the best way for me to learn? No. Did I have to go in and teach myself how to do things after that fact and for the rest of my career? Absolutely. But did I have some of those baseline foundational things conveyed to me based on someone who knew the order of operations of learning this topic? I did. So I am not self-taught in any sense of the word. KURT: Yeah. I think that's very interesting point and what I've been using. So I'm the other end of that spectrum. No official – that's actually not true, I took intro or intermediate web development course when I was incarcerated. But this was basically, here's a book on HTML, CSS, and JavaScript and good luck. But aside from that, I had no real formal education, but I've adopted the term self-guided, which I feel is a better descriptor of that. Because it's more about guiding yourself through a curriculum to learn programming and it's like, you're pulling bits and pieces from wherever. You can find it to create your own curriculum is essentially what you're doing. But I did learn from lots of other folks along that journey, both through asynchronous communication and DMs, watching videos, reading, blog posts and stuff. So it's not like I was in a room with no outside influence and had a computer and was like, “I will code.” But I think I really like that term, self-guided, because that's a better representation, I feel like of what actually happened. LAURIE: I love that and it reminds me of when I was in high school where you get to take independent study and it's sort of the same concept of you get to go in-depth on a topic, but you're determining what shape that takes and where you go and what you focus on. JACOB: What successful means. KURT: Yeah. JACOB: And then no one will probably care, to be truthful. No one will actually care if you don't do it. LAURIE: Yeah. Yeah, that's the other thing; self-motivated is a big part of that. Like, no one's grading papers or assignments. There's no papers in coding. [laughter] No one is grading assignments. You don't have deadlines that are imposed by other people. If you buy the course and you never watch a single video, the only one accountable for that is sunk cost fallacy of having wasted the money. There's nothing forcing you to power through and that's actually a great way to prepare yourself for coding on the job. Because it's like, technically, there's just this ticket and you need to be looking at it and feel the sense of oh no, I need to get this done because no one can actually force you to do it! [laughs] KURT: Yeah. That's very accurate. [chuckles] JOHN: Concurred. It sounds like from your bio there that the group of people that you consider yourself to be responsible for helping to lift up is beyond just the team that you're responsible for. So I’d love to hear more about the other groups that you're working with on that level. KURT: Yeah. So, I think it's interesting when we talk about community and groups and to me, community is not like a thing with guidelines and boundaries, community is whoever you surround yourself with and so, to me, there is no React community, or GraphQL community. There's just people in my community who happened to know React, or GraphQL and I think it's an interesting way to look at community because it breaks down a lot of barriers. But if we do talk about specific groups, I am very into the intersection of incarceration and technology and the reason why is because I myself am formerly incarcerated and getting into tech had such a drastic effect on my life. So it’s just naturally, I want to and again, a lot of this motivation for lifting others up stems from this. I feel like I am often sitting on a gold mine and I feel selfish when I know that there are people who were in a similar situation who are coming out of prison and don't have any idea that this industry exists, that they can have a future in it with some self-guided learning, some hard work, and a lot of perseverance. It's by no means easy, let's be real. Coding is a very difficult skill, but most folks can accomplish that goal of learning it and it just feels like if I'm not actively working to help expose people, who are coming out of incarceration, find this industry and see if it's a fit for them, then I feel like I'm just like holding something that I should be freely giving away. I think a lot of where it comes with lifting others up is that feeling of, I'm holding something that other people should have access to and that's education, information. When we talk about self-guided, it's actually one thing about picking your own curriculum that is anxiety inducing is, am I picking the right things to learn? The industry is huge and you could pick so many different things and I lucked out that I was introduced to something that was a good path into tech for me. I would like to provide folks coming out the information that the industry exists, but also a little bit of guidance around some of the different ways that you can go and break into it. So I'd say that is definitely a community, or a group of folks in my community that I care deeply about is those who are transitioning from incarceration back into society. LAURIE: I'm curious if – obviously, this is an experience and a community that a lot of us don't have a lot of insight into and it's great that you do and you have those connections. Can you talk to us a little bit about the kinds of things that we all can do to make that transition easier to support those groups of people, whether it's in an organization or outside of that? KURT: Yeah. I'll say there's really two avenues where you can do a lot of good. One is in de-stigmatization. So it's sharing information about incarceration, figuring out who these people in the community are, building relationships with them, checking at your companies, and seeing if they're adhering to the laws around hiring formerly incarcerated folks. A lot of times background checks will violate labor laws within states and companies don't check that. They say, “Give me the default. I want all the information.” It's up to the company to actually check and make sure that they have the proper configuration that they're not losing people based on laws. A good example of this is in California, they can only look 7 years back on your record for criminal activity, barring certain types of activity. But for most things, only 7 years. However, there's companies that will do background checks and pull stuff up from way back. I had this happen with a company and I was like, “Hey, just to let you know, you're not allowed to pull up information from when you did. You showing me that you found my background is actually admitting that you're violating the state laws.” Now here's where the problem lies. It takes people who are the ones, the vulnerable being affected by it to push this forward because our only recourse is to hire a lawyer and to fight it in court. I'm jobless, have just come out of prison; I don't have any money for a lawyer to fight some company, to do that and then do you want to go now work for a company that you had to fight for the job in court? So it takes people who are not in that situation asking their employer, “Hey, what is our policy on hiring formerly incarcerated? What programs do we have in place to make sure we're not dropping them out of the pipeline?” That's a huge one. And then the second one is most people don't really want to go back to prison. That's not always true. You have people who actually do want to go because it's a place where they can get more stability and safety and stuff than they can. That says a lot about the United States as a whole, but most people, they come into prison with high hopes. I wasn't the only one in that web programming class like, I wasn't the only one learning how to train dogs, learning welding, carpentry, plumbing; taking every course that was available to me. There's a lot of other folks, too. But what people don't have and why recidivism is so high is there's no stability. So we get these skills. We get out into the world. We have no income. We have no job history for years because of this. Companies that would hire folks for the skills that we have learned are doing background checks and turning us down because of them. So it's like yeah, we're learning skills, we're learning stuff, but none of it can actually be used until x amount of years after you get out and you're just kind of left floating there. So finding programs, local programs that are based in civil activities, providing housing, providing food, providing access to equipment and education, further education for folks coming out of incarceration. Those are the two best places that you can by far have a huge impact. $50 worth of food can be the difference between somebody going back to prison or not. Because if they don't have it, they're going to revert to what they know and what they know is crime often, and then boom, they go back. Of course, if we look at who's the most affected by this, it's marginalized communities. So focusing on those communities is especially going to be impactful. JOHN: Yeah. I would also imagine that the lack of a support system in the outside world is also a huge factor there. Like you were saying the $50, people that have a support system can probably make-do relying on other people that they know to help out, to get by through that part where they need that extra money for food. But if you don't have that, there aren't really any other options. KURT: Yeah. It took me almost 3 years to land my first job coding as a software developer and I can pinpoint multiple times during that 3 years where I came very close to committing a crime again and that's wild to think about now. Now, I would never in a million years do anything, but I also have stability. It’s just a living example, somebody directly in front of you just proving that the prison system, prison industrial complex is really just a money-making machine that is not incentivized in any way to help provide you with stability and keep you out of prison. Most of our prisons are actually owned by private businesses and private businesses need revenue and for a private prison, what do you think the revenue stream is? Prison labor, slave labor, me working for 14 cents an hour. That is how they make money. So what is the real incentivization, or real incentive, I guess, is the actual word to actually have programs to help people be stable when they get out? To provide learning and education around things they'll actually be able to get jobs for? To not have lobbyists literally fight to keep laws around hiring formerly incarcerated as strict and terrible as they are? So the prison industrial complex literally sends people to Congress and have them lobby against improving these systems and then they pay people at the state level and it's just like all the way down. They pay judges to make sure they send non-violent offenders into the prison system. It's a nightmare of a system, but to circle back to that, that $50 makes a huge difference and can really be the differentiator. LAURIE: For what it's worth, I appreciate you being so candid about all of this. I think it's a topic that some of us are tangentially aware of, but don't necessarily have the specifics. I remember some of this from my poly-sci degree and it was horrible then and it's worse now. KURT: Yeah. It's not fun or pleasant, but I am privileged enough to be in a position to candidly speak about it and so, again, if we use manager speak, [chuckles] circle back to lifting up others and feeling like I'm holding onto something. This stuff is really stressful. It's hard to talk about even with as much as I do, but I find that the DMs that I get from folks who are struggling and trying to get into tech. When they reach out to me and they're like, “I found your blog posts or this podcast or video and it gave me hope,” I'm going to keep trying that's that motivates the ever-living crap out of me and it far outweighs that pressure. But another thing, too is not everyone is in a position to be able to speak about this. It's just, I've developed enough of a brand and identity in the industry. I have enough of a work background. The incidents have happened so far in the past now that they can't really be held against me for finding future work. So not everyone has that situation. LAURIE: I'm curious if you feel like being in the developer relations space has impacted your ability to have those conversations and have those interactions and be more visible compared to some sort of a more IC coding role where you don't necessarily have the same kind of network effect based on the work that you're doing day-to-day. KURT: Yeah. Oh, that's a really interesting insight. I mean, yes, the faster the audience grows that I can reach, clearly, it’s the more people I can reach with this message. So I definitely think DevRel has put me into a situation where I can reach more people faster because my network is growing faster than it was as an individual contributor. So yeah, a 100%. I think it's also interesting to find the balance between like, we all know how tech folks feel about people being people and having lives outside of technology. So it's like finding that line of growing your audience while producing information about things or causes that you care about and stuff without causing a lot of churn in drop off is a feat in and of itself. Every time I tweet about prison or something like that, I watch my followers drop. It's just like you can set a clock to it. But it's an interesting balance to try to not overshare in that regard and just continue to lose audience because then that affects things like algorithms and how many people I reach and stuff. So it is interesting. I never really thought about that, though. JOHN: Yeah. I mean, it's interesting that like the way you talk about the work you're doing. At this point, you have the privilege to be able to talk about those things when so many people don't and that's certainly a powerful way to use that privilege that you currently have. What you're talking about there is losing follower count, which affects your job a little bit and trying to balance how you're talking about these things without cussing yourself too much. But it's interesting that those are the costs that you're weighing about speaking out and you know what those are and you also know that so many other people can't speak out because their consequences are going to be so much more drastic. KURT: Yeah, absolutely. When we start to look at this through the lens of bias in the industry. I am cis white dude; I have the benefit of like failing upwards. So it's like me going to prison, I get to spin it as this redemption story and I get to be the symbol of hope for prisoners coming out and breaking into tech. But it's not the same story for a lot of folks that I talk to who don't look like me or aren't basically white men. It gets really tough the further you get from that. So I also want to call out, too that a lot of times, the privilege to be able to speak is based on literal white privilege; I always get the benefit of the doubt. It's interesting, but yes, I get the benefit of doubt. I get to fail upwards. I'm formerly incarcerated, who's now the DevRel manager of Apollo. But I know so many other formerly incarcerated people who are way better at this stuff than I am and they still haven't found a work yet. So those disparities exist and when you compound other issues that the tech industry faces against that. Like, the hiring rate for formerly incarcerated Black women is like 4% or something ridiculous like that according to last statistics, from what I could find, which was about 2019. That's 4% compared to white males, which is about 43 or 44%. We have to take that into account, too. That privilege is steeped in white male privilege as well. JOHN: It's like the prison association just magnifies all of those existing inequities. KURT: Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. You're an ex-con, or a felon—I get to be formerly incarcerated, not a felon. JOHN: Yeah, the language matters a lot. KURT: Oh, yeah. JACOB: So what are some of the details of how you're helping folks? It looks like you have, it’s a Twitch stream? I just pulled up your Twitter account just a minute ago, but tell me details. KURT: Yeah. It's interesting. So when we think about helping people, I have stream, which I do a lot, a lot of blogging, involved in a lot of communities. Most of the work that I do. So if we're just talking about community in general, also the Apollo stream; I do a lot of streaming for them. My calendar is open; folks drop in there a lot. When it comes to helping formerly incarcerated, that's a lot more scaled down and on a one-on-one basis because every single person has a different situation. Also, a lot of them can't come forward and say that they're formerly incarcerated. There's an entire network of folks. Some of them can and they have, but there's an entire network of folks who I'm working with regularly and just, nobody knows because they can't really share or express that information. But I really focus on a couple of things, which is helping them figure out their path into tech, what it is that they'll like. So trying to get them guided on that, helping them build their network, teaching them about things like learning in public and how to do that. We work on freelance, because it's really hard for folks to get jobs, full-time employment so we focus on freelance work and how to look for red flags, clients, promote yourself, and stuff like that. It's generally different for each person because it all depends on where they are on the scale of their education into tech, how stable is their environment at home. It's just a lot of things that go into it. I am working on starting a nonprofit to formalize this training, but it's very slow going. I just really don't have the time that I would like to dedicate to it. Some other ways that I've been helping out is there's a really cool nonprofit project called The Marshall Project. They take a data-driven approach to exposing issues within the criminal justice system. I do a lot of stuff with that. I sponsor and support a lot of prison reform lawyers. They don't get paid a lot and stuff like that so monetary support for them, monetary support for the people who are coming out, who need that. There's really where I spend most of my focus, but if you ask anyone, I'm available. If somebody wants or needs something from me, I try to make myself available I talk to a wide range of people from all different communities about all sorts of different things. But I don't really have a centralized way, a singular path into helping folks out. It's pretty disparate, honestly. LAURIE: This is a slightly different topic, but it's something you touched on and what you just said. I'm wondering if we can talk about the interview process as it relates to being formerly incarcerated and revealing that information. Because I think one of the – I had an interaction with someone a couple of years back who said, “I got all the way through the process. I didn't tell them they offered me the job and now I have to tell them because it's about to come up on a background check,” which the efficacy of that we can discuss for a long time. “But it's about to come up on a background check, what do I do? How do I have this conversation?” I think we all know that especially for entry level positions, there's thousands of applicants and the minute you give them one red flag, they're like, “Oh, well, we have 500 other people to talk to.” So what has been your experience with talking to people going through this and how they can navigate what is already an incredibly stressful and difficult process, even not having some flags that unfortunately, don't get perceived the way that we wish they would? KURT: Yeah, this is a really great question. It’s the most – I won't say the most, it is an extremely stress and anxiety inducing situation. I've developed a system over the years from having dealt with this, but in the beginning, it was very chaotic. You would just get through the process; you don't say that you have a record, you don't come upfront and say it. You never do that. If they're going to do a background check, let them do it. I've had situations where companies have made me fill out paperwork for background check and then they never, I guess, submitted it because they never came and said anything about it, or maybe at that job, they were following their state's laws and it didn't come back. I would say it's a multi-step process. So first things first, never say that you have a background upfront. Second of all, is investigate the state laws around hiring the formerly incarcerated for that company for where they are located. Where is their business set up at? Understand those state laws? The next thing that's going to happen is if you get through the interview process and they're going to do a background check, so what they always do—this is the most annoying thing. Oftentimes, you will sign your offer letter. You will have a start date. You will do all this and in there, it says contingent upon a background check. This puts you in this situation where, especially if you're at an existing company, you want to give them time. Do you put in your leave and throw all of your eggs into this basket only to then come on and then they do the background check and then it comes back and they fire you? It puts you in this just purely stressful situation for about two weeks. But a couple of things that you can do to get ahead of it is I started doing things where I will message them and I get real creative and I'm like, “Look, I've had issues with discrepancies, with insurance and other things, not going through before I've signed my start date and then there were problems, disagreements. I need to know all the paperwork. I need to have that signed upfront and have everything taken care of before I will decide on a start date. I want to make sure I give ample time to leave.” So sometimes that will work and that will get you a lot closer. When that doesn't work, the other thing that I do is anytime they're going to do a background check, you have to consent to it and part of that consent is they'll tell you the company that they're going to use. If I've made it this far, I will then pay out of pocket and go get my own background check from this company. For most of them, you can do that. Now what it is that even if a company reaches out, I will put them off until I get the background check so I can see what has come back about my record so I can better prepare my statement for how I want to discuss this with them. If you make it through all of that and you get there, sometimes they just still are going to say no, or they'll just ghost you and I've had that happen to me, too. Just literally been ghosted and it's just hard, it's stressful. There's not a lot you can do with it. The best thing that you can do is understand the laws around the different 50 states, figure out which ones are the most forgiving towards you and your situation, apply for jobs—ideally, remotely—within that place. If you're in that position, a lot of people aren't in that position, but it's just stress-inducing nightmare. One thing that I did do is I always had backups. I would have offers from multiple jobs and accept multiple offers, which sucks. But then if I get one, I stay in and I don't, but I would stagger the start dates. LAURIE: Wow. KURT: Yeah. I learned that from my 3 years of trying to get my first job because even trying to work at Target, Walmart, all these places I check yes on that have you been convicted of a felony in the last 7 years and I'd never hear from them. So I just stopped checking it. I would get a job at Target. I would work there for three weeks and then they would be like, “Hey, background check came through. Wish you wouldn't have lied to us. You're one of our best workers, but now we have to let you go.” It's like, “Well, cool. You wouldn't have hired me anyway. I'll take my 3-week paycheck. I've already got a job lined up at McDonald's. So I'm going to go work there for three weeks now.” My first 2 years out of prison, I had like at least 10 W-4s, at least 10, probably closer to 20 my first year and then I got a little bit smarter about places that I was picking through the second year so I was able to stay places longer. But you just have to do whatever you have to do or you have to resort back to crime, really. That's always, my advice to folks is rolling jobs like, ABA. Always be Applying. Always be applying for jobs and lining them up so if they come at you, “We did your background check. We're going to let you go.” You can just go to the next place and you don't have to go so long without having income. LAURIE: That sounds like an incredibly stressful way to live. KURT: It is a very stressful way to live. Yeah, it absolutely is. And that kind of comes back to tech can change lives. Even my first job was a really crappy paying job doing pretty boring work, but I was so happy when I actually got my first job. It changed my whole life. Literally changed my life and then after learning about the industry, finally getting my job, talking to other industry professionals, I was able to realize how drastically underpaid and overworked I was. Slowly started to work my way out of that and up to a standard developer salary for this day and age. I make money today that I never dreamed in a world of possibility that I would ever make in my entire life ever. Never thought that this would be the life that I live today and it can really change folks' lives and that's why I'm so aggressively trying to help folks. LAURIE: It's interesting that you talk about Always be Applying. There was some Twitter threads stuff going around a couple of weeks back about that in relation to the tech industry and talking about you should always see what's out there and see if there's better possibilities. My first reaction was interviewing is the most stressful part of working in tech, who would voluntarily do that if they're not looking to leave a job? I suspect it is slightly less stressful in some ways, if you're applying to retail positions, but more stressful if you're dealing with something like a record. Just having to have that in the back of your mind and always trying to find a new job and that new security is – I mean, we talk about people in tech who do it every 1 to 3 years and that already seems like way too often. Every three weeks is just unfathomable to me. KURT: Yeah. It's like you said, it's a lot of stress. By the time you figure out who everyone is, you're onto the next place. You get so tired of hearing, “You're one of our best workers, but we have to let you go.” You can only hear that so many times in a year before you just never want to hear that phrase again. It's just very aggravating for sure. I will say that that was less stressful than tech interviews in my opinion. LAURIE: Oh, that's damning! JOHN: Yeah. KURT: Yeah, that was way less stressful. The anxiety of technical interviews, especially when they're asking me questions about my background, because I have to fabricate basically 10 years of my life and that was one of the hardest parts. So one of the hardest parts about having a record and not being able to share it, especially in an industry where everybody wants to know how you got there, it's very hard to build that lie around what you do and it starts to really weigh on you. I made me really depressed constantly having to lie. “Oh, how'd you learn how to code?” “Well, actually I was in prison and they had a course called Intermediate Web Page and I took it.” I can't say that. I can't say that. So I have to fabricate and then I just bend the truth, which it was true. Like, “Oh, a friend of mine was going to take this course, I decided to take it with them.” That was true. I just left out that that decision was made in prison. It's like, “Oh, I got my first taste of it and then I just started buying books to continue to learn and use any opportunity I could in front of a computer to continue programming.” Also true. Just didn’t mention that for the next about year and a half, I didn't have access to a computer and I picked that back up when I got out. Yeah. It's just about bending those truths and it's like, “Oh, well, where did you work?” Not a full lie, I'm like, “I did a lot of freelancing and consulting,” which I did. I did IT and website development and stuff, freelancing and consulting work, the little bits I could get. Doing a local plumber's website or something like that, helping somebody get all the viruses off their computer. Wonder how those got there. But it's stuff like that. So that's what I had to do. I had to fabricate this false history. Part of me coming out and talking about this was also selfish. It was just very depressing and I was tired of lying all the time. I was finally in a position where I felt that while coming forward about this part of my life could still have negative impacts that I have enough of a time distance and enough of an identity that I could probably still have a future in tech. That's what I did. I was at Major League Soccer and I let my team know and the people around me know and then I posted a blog post about it and that's really when everyone started to find out. This is only 2018, 2019. I got my first job in tech – or 2018. I got my first job in tech in 2013 so it was like 5 years, I went with only telling a couple people. LAURIE: I was about to ask if you still have to lie because I feel like the minute you Google you, that's one of the first thing that comes up, this really incredible post about your experience. It's like if someone didn't check your Twitter, I'm questioning the due diligence that they did and just relying on a background check seems a little odd if they haven't even looked up your social media. Your public technical, social media, not looking to see if you have a Facebook with lots of beer cans behind you sort of thing. KURT: Right. Yeah. No, absolutely. But you'd be amazed. I mean, people don't look at your social media first. It's interesting when we think about especially tech hiring; your resume in a pile and before you even get to that pile, you're just a resume that gets pumped through a system a lot of times. It's like until you build a network that is often yeah, you are a victim of that a lot of times. They're not going to know who you are personally before they see you on paper and that's very detrimental, but you would think they would do a little bit of research and look that up. It's actually funny, you brought up a good point, which is if you search, you'll bring it up. I worked so hard to actually get my actual prison from North Carolina thing pushed off the first page and build a public profile and now it's right back at the top, but because I put it there. So that is really funny. [chuckles] LAURIE: But that matters, right? KURT: It matters. LAURIE: It’s like voluntary disclosure versus something that you don't have control over, that is a huge, huge difference. I’m thinking of the Meghan Markle thing right now, where everyone's like, “She sued because they published a letter with her father, but now she's disclosing her pregnancy,” and I'm like, “Yeah, very different! One she chose to and the other one, she did not.” KURT: Exactly. Yeah, that's a huge difference. But it's just really interesting to think about that I'm back at the top of Google now for being formerly incarcerated. [laughter] But under much better terms and I get to tell my story and explain why. Not just be like a mugshot with some records. JACOB: If you had asked me before this episode, “Have you ever worked with an incarcerated person while you’re working in tech?” I privately would have told myself, no. I mean, I probably would have said, “I'm not sure,” but I think my implicit bias would have said no. KURT: Yeah. JACOB: And I think this is making me realize I probably have and I think probably a lot of our listeners have, too and it just either a, it didn't come up at all, or b, was handled in a way that it didn't get around to the rest of the workforce, which is probably the best thing. KURT: Yeah, there are some companies. I have found the companies that do you actually advocate for formerly incarcerated. They do it really well and only because I'm so vocal is why my team knows. Even at Apollo, they're very careful about it. We talked about my background actually coming up and then they were like, “Well, this wasn't supposed to show up, but even regardless, we're not going to hold this against you even if it was within the timeframe.” It was very nice and this is between us, it won't matter and I'm like, “Well, I've kind of let the cat out of the bag so it's not a big deal if it's between us,” but I loved seeing the approach that they took. You're right, you probably have worked with people who were incarcerated before. It's a large percentage of people who have been to prison in the US. A very large percentage, way more than it should be and so, it's really interesting to think about, but you're right. It hasn't come up. Most people who have been incarcerated aren't going to just leap out and be like, “Oh, that's an interesting thing. Let me tell you about the time I was locked up and how this was.” They're going to keep that to themselves because you never know how people are going to take it. You just don't know how people will react and some people, even if they are cool with it, will still look at you differently and I've had situations like that happen and it's tough to deal with, but it's a part of life. Again, I'm not trying to make this a sob story. I did things that put me in prison and I did my time and I I've paid my dues to society. Rightfully so. Well, there's a whole thing about the sentencing and what we should be doing in the US, but according to law, I paid my dues and I was released and really, the buck should stop there, but you don't stop doing time when you're released. You continue to do it pretty much forever because the US again, we have the stigma around prisons and why do we have that? Because the prison industrial complex is pushing this agenda that we have a lot of crime and we need a lot of cops and we need to lock people up and people who come out of prison are in prison or felons and bad people and deserve to be there. This is instilled into us from the time that we're kids and that's why I say the two most important things are providing stability for folks getting out and helping de-stigmatize having a record and helping break down the prison industrial complex. It's the only way we see a future where this is not an issue. LAURIE: This could probably be a whole other episode, but you saying that and talking about there are felons and they're bad people in there and it's instilled in us. It's the idea of a binary identity, which exists in so many different places in our society. There's good and bad, and there's right and wrong, and there's the reason that people hate using this term, because it's incredibly racist and problematic. It's black and it's white. All of these things are rooted in the same ideology, which is that to simplify the way that our brain experiences life, we can categorize things into one is good and one is bad. That's not the way the world works and that's not who people are. People take bad actions and they take good actions, but that doesn't make them bad people or good people. A lot of the reason we do that is because we like to tell ourselves we're good people. And I'm sure you've heard this phrase, I'm sure all of us have heard this phrase, but the phrase, “You didn't make good choices. You had good choices” is the same as the meritocracy argument, which is like, you had the ability to get somewhere because you started on third base, you had the ability to make all the right decisions and do all the things because you had stability and resources and comfort. Without those things, would you have made the same choices as the person that you're looking down on? Probably honestly, probably and you just have no idea what that's like. So I appreciate you pointing that out because I think we've had episodes in the past about binary identities and what problems that causes. JOHN: So Kurt, you called out something that's pretty interesting that was going by and what you were saying earlier about how Apollo treated you when they found out about your record and the way they went through that. So I'm wondering if you could talk a little bit more about if there's someone who's a hiring manager, maybe in a small company without a giant HR organization and strict policies around the hiring. What is a good way for that person to handle when they find out through the background check that the candidate that they really like has a record of some sort like, what's the good path there? KURT: Yeah. There's two things there. So I want to answer that question, but one thing I do want to actually circle back to very quickly, which is what you said about bigger companies with stricter policies. In my experience, it's actually the bigger companies that you have an easier chance of getting a job at. They have huge HR departments and law teams and want to protect themselves and we'll make sure that they're actually following the proper hiring laws and state regulations for wherever it is they are. I had no problem getting a job at AWS, but when you flip it in reverse to these startups and they outsource their HR to these other companies, that is actually where most of the trip-ups happen because they don't have – well, a lot of times it's ignorance of the situation. They're ignorant of the fact they're violating hiring and labor laws and they don't even know. So I just want to state that is something because that was something I learned, too that actually shifted my job search function was I would actually target more organized companies because I stood a better chance of knowing that if they did do a background check, it would actually follow the state guidelines. But to answer the question, that's a really good point and a really good question, I mean and a tough one to answer. I think just number one is making no assumptions. There's a couple things and this actually kind of relates to some other stuff. So there's going to be – you can't be defensive. I've discovered that a lot of times when people find out that you have a background, they feel somewhat lied to and it's like, “I didn't come up front about it up forward,” but it's kind of a bomb when it lands. Again, we have the stigma about people with records and then they see it, their first instinct is to be like, “Well, why don't you share this with me?” The obvious reason that it wasn't shared with you, but you might not be realizing it at the time, is because I don't know if it's going to matter getting this job. It's something that could hurt me and I don't want to reveal it until you've had a chance to get to know me. So just know that, the reason that they did not share it with you is because they wanted you to know them as a person and go through the interview process before you find out about something like this. They're just trying to get a little bit of empathy from you. The second thing is to avoid things like feigned surprise, like, “Oh my goodness, I can't believe you have a record,” or “I never would have guessed that you would have a background.” Things like that, they start to split somebody's identity and make them feel like again, we talk about this good and bad binary and that's going to really cause them a lot of stress and anxiety. You want to avoid things like that. And then the last thing to do is just to continue to treat them the exact same way that you did before you knew. If you can do those things, that person is going to feel safe and they're going to have a great experience working with you. JOHN: Great. That's super handy. I imagine that there's some people out there having that question like, “Oh I've never been in that situation, but what's the best way to handle that?” So it's definitely good to know. LAURIE: Totally outside the episode, but Mandy Moore just released a screenshot of a place that wanted to interview her about her entire career and she said she wouldn't talk about the abuse allegations against her ex-husband and they canceled the interview and they said it would be essential to the story. She said, “If you only want me for my trauma, when I have a 20-to-30-year long career, then I have no interest in having this conversation,” and how upsetting that was. It’s like one person is not their worst – I mean, not even a mistake. Like, one person is not their association with another person's bad actions. KURT: Yeah. That actually brings up a really interesting topic, too, which is people trying to take advantage. When you talk about lifting others up, I often find myself in situations where people are just blatantly trying to take advantage of me and my willingness to help folks. That happens all the time. JACOB: How so? KURT: Just a lot of things like, private companies will want me to do webinars or talks on things about breaking into tech and just different topics, or ask me for access to my network or do I know formerly incarcerated folks who might be interested in contract work? I can tell that they're asking because they feel like they could get them for a cheaper price. You know what I mean? They're not going to have to pay them as much and it's like a lot of shady business practices and stuff like that. I get that on the regular. It's pretty frustrating. LAURIE: Oh my gosh. It's Women in Tech in a different outfit. [chuckles] KURT: Yeah. LAURIE: It feels the same hearing you explain it. I'm like, yup, yup, yup, yup. KURT: Yeah. It's been an interesting side effect of this. JOHN: Yeah. That reminds me of we had Veni Kunche on the show a while back talking about the diversified tech system platform that she's built and how people paid to post jobs to her audience. But she does a lot of work to vet those companies to make sure that they're not going to just come in the door and be kicked out again in eight months because there's no support for actually having those sorts of people joining the team. So it's such an important trust relationship there with the community you represent, especially because most of them need to be somewhat on the DL as being part of that community. It's like, if you're a Black woman, it's no surprise that you're a part of that community, but it's still so important for you as someone, who's much more public and representing them, that you have to be so careful about who you're connecting to. KURT: This has been one of the biggest holdups for me starting this nonprofit and providing training is there's a lot of issues with exposing people through this. So it's like the end goal would be for them to leave and be able to seek training, or employment, but the real problem comes afterwards when you are trying to help them seek employment or freelance jobs. It's like you have to disassociate your network and attachment with them from that nonprofit. If a lot of people know that I'm doing that nonprofit, then they're going to automatically start to assume everyone who I provide through my network is going to be coming from this program. So there's just like a lot of things. I've been very much trying to figure out how do I prioritize these folks and vulnerable people, in general and I think a lot of that has to do with, I don't know, I'm like why I've been so hesitant to move forward with this? I don't want to start a nonprofit with the best of intentions, but that the impact of that nonprofit ends up being more harmful than good and it's like, who does that really benefit? That's why so far, I've been sticking with this more kind of like one-on-one. I know it doesn't scale well, but that's okay. If I help some people that's better than helping no one, first of all and second of all, helping a few people and having that be really beneficial to them, as opposed to helping a bunch of people and it might end up good for you, or it might end up bad for you and we don't really know, it seems very risky to me. So I think it's why I've been working very slowly at that and really trying to figure out what does that process look like once they're done training because there's still a lot of unknowns there. JOHN: Yeah. It's a conundrum that most training programs and diversity programs don't have to deal with because most of them, they want to highlight the intersections of the people that come through their program because that's part of what they're after and raising the profile there and you have the exact opposite situation, which is how do you smuggle them in before prejudges? KURT: Exactly and so, completely flips the game on its head. I think it was you Laurie, that tweeted if you had your salary, your developer salary and you could do anything, what would you do? I would actually become a prison reform lawyer. I think the real goal is to stop the flow of folks going in. The band-aid is helping folks come out. The real work is stopping folks from going in to begin with, but I can't go back to school for another 8 years to become a lawyer and then move forward with that direction. So that's what I want to talk about. I've been helping sponsor prison reform lawyers and look for ways to get involved with that. I've offered volunteer time to The Marshall Project to help with them and their data collection efforts and stuff like that. Again, taking myself out of the center, the nonprofit I'm very centered in that scenario and I feel like I can have a bigger impact in more areas by just contributing as opposed to being the creator of the thing. So right now, that's kind of where my mind is at while I feel out this nonprofit and see if I can develop something I'm comfortable with, from that. LAURIE: I was just going to say, I was doing that math and you just said 8 years. Does that mean you have your GED? This may not be a thing that I know. KURT: Yeah, I have my GED and no college education. I went to college for a little over a year for graphic design, but could not afford to go anymore, so stopped and then that's like my education. In order to get a law degree, I would first have to get a Bachelor's so I need 4 years of college—I don't know how many of my credits would be transferable from graphic design—and then I would have to go to law school afterwards and then still deal with certain states. If I can even take the test for the bar, or be on the bar being a convicted felon, which in most states you can, but there are still states where you cannot. LAURIE: So the reason I asked and it wasn't to do the math, but it was more, that is another community that you belong to that, I think perhaps in the past had a very different set of opportunities available to them in tech. And as tech has become higher paying and we've done a lot more recruiting from the Stanfords and the MITs and Harvard and Yale and all of those things, it used to be, you could break in – it goes back to the self-taught like, you could break in without any undergrad degree and now that's getting harder and harder and harder and harder. So I'm curious if—obviously, it's hard to decouple those based on your experience because you were formerly incarcerated and you didn't have that formal Bachelor's degree. But have you seen situations in which that has been a different community that you're a part of, or that has impacted the opportunities that you can pursue? KURT: Yeah. I wouldn't be able to separate maybe if I went back and thought about it, but in my mind, every time I've been ghosted has primarily been – well, it stopped me from not applying to a lot of places. That's for sure. It's blocked me from feeling confident enough to even apply and that was definitely in the beginning before I knew the industry and how bad most job application postings are and realize that the requirements they often ask for are way beyond what you actually need to do the job. But I didn't know that. So I would see like needs a Bachelor's degree and I'd be like, “Nope, not applying to that one.” So I guess, I did miss out on a lot of opportunities just from that. But most times, I feel like if it came down to decision and I went through the interview process and they did a background check—I just always assumed it was the background check that I got ghosted. JOHN: Yeah. Usually, if the degree is going to be a factor, it's right at the front of the process. KURT: Early on, yeah. But it could be a deciding factor, especially with entry-level folks. Two people made it through the interview process. They both did really well. It really comes down to what the person who makes that decision cares more about, do they care more about this on paper or some sort of like behavioral give that seems this person would be better to work with. It's like, what do they care about and so, it can definitely have huge effects. This gets into a whole another discussion, but that's just the tech industry and hiring in general is just terrible. LAURIE: Broken! KURT: Beyond broken. Yeah. It's just like you know? [chuckles] The fact that it can come down to whether or not you get a job based on the preference of the person who's looking at the things in front of you is just super problematic. But I definitely feel that I'm sure, there's a lot of cases where people would see one has a degree, the other does not and they're going to go, “Oh, taking the CS grad anytime, because we're about to go write all these algorithms.” LAURIE: Kurt, do you know my favorite story about ridiculous things that should not be a thing? KURT: Oh, I can't wait. LAURIE: So I was interviewed for a job, internal transfer. I got the job. They sent the paperwork to HR and HR said, “Sorry, you can't hire her because she has a Bachelor of Arts and Mathematics, not a Bachelor of Science and Mathematics.” Literally not even joking, this is a real thing that happened. I was halfway through a Master's of Science in Computer Science because I was annoyed by the fact that they cared that I had a Bachelor of Arts and they said, “So because she doesn't have the right degree, she needs to have the right amount of courses that would be equivalent to the degree.” In that case, that was 16 computer science or math specific hard science courses, which is more than the Bachelor's degree was required! So if I had that, I would have had a Bachelor's degree of Science and Computer Science or a Bachelor's degree of Arts and Computer Science, because I went to a liberal arts school and they are not accredited to give Bachelor's of Science regardless of what your major is. So on the scale of ridiculous things that happen in tech, just add that as a fun story to remember. KURT: It's like what goes through their heads? It's like, “Oh, well, we must adhere to this policy because clearly, the policy makes more sense than somebody who has worked here, has a proven track record of doing their job well, has already moved to the other team and everyone is cool with it, but wait a minute, you don't have enough credits.” LAURIE: I got blocked. I didn't get to move. To be fair, it was the federal government so that's sort of how the world works, but still. KURT: Yeah. Still, it shouldn't work like that and it's symptomatic of the ridiculous hiring process that we've developed as a tech industry. It just like, I don't know, I've worked in construction. I've worked in the restaurant industry. I've worked at a lot of other places and none of my interviews have ever felt really like somebody was trying to prove that they knew something I didn't, or like catch me in a gotcha. You know what I mean? This is what I mean by tech interviews are more stressful than even when I was interviewing at all those other jobs combined, because I never felt like I was being interrogated and that's the difference. Honestly, tech interviews feel a lot like when I was actually being interrogated. That should tell you something. It just feels like they're constantly trying to trip you up, trying to get you to say something that disagrees with what you said five minutes ago, prove they know something that you don't. Does all of this sound familiar? LAURIE: I mean, Kurt, if you're a personal brand is that you're kind and you help people and you were formerly incarcerated and you do cool things now, you know that mine is just railing against tech interviews, so. KURT: Yeah. [laughter] LAURIE: This is a known thing. KURT: Well, that's amazing. But it's a very aggressive interview process. It often pits folks against each other as opposed to working with each other. I just have never been a big fan of tech interviews. LAURIE: Terrible for anyone who has ever had anxiety in their life or deals with any kind of PTSD or trauma. Yup. No, it's really – My favorite tweet about this is that Tatiana explained that she felt it was equivalent to – it was an abusive relationship and that it's string you along for seven interviews and then they're like,” Oh, well you don't have the skill that we need,” except you would have known that I didn't have this skill because it was on my resume and it's been in every conversation, but you just put me through all of this just to say no, because you told yourself that it was better for me and you were giving me a chance and all of these things. A lot of people came back and they were like, “That's going to step too far,” and I was like, “You know what? I honestly don't think it is.” It really is that bad and that's horrifying and it's why so many people stay in toxic work environments because the idea of going through a toxic interview process doesn't feel like something they can possibly do. KURT: Yeah, and those folks who are saying it ain't that bad are probably the ones who are normally on the other side of that table, so. [chuckles] JOHN: Yeah. I always find I have to hold my tongue when people are in otherwise, decent situations or even when they're in bad situations, my automatic recommendation is, “Well, start looking for something else,” but I always have to back up from that and not say that because if there's any sort of difference in privilege between us, I can't give that advice because it's such so much more work for them than for me. So I have to be very careful. KURT: Yeah. That's another really awesome point and something that I have worked a lot on over the last 2 years in helping folks, which is contextualizing

When last we left Michael Dornbrook, Infocom's fortunes had just begun to change with the Cornerstone database project turning sour and new competitors hitting the market.   Listen, as we find out how the company reacted to the changing market, being purchased by Activision, management changes, and a reluctant entry into the world of graphics, as well as, Michael's life after text adventures. Get us on your mobile device: Android: https://www.google.com/podcasts?feed=aHR0cHM6Ly92aWRlb2dhbWVuZXdzcm9vbXRpbWVtYWNoaW5lLmxpYnN5bi5jb20vcnNz iOS: https://podcasts.apple.com/de/podcast/video-game-newsroom-time-machine And if you like what we are doing here at the podcast, don't forget to like us on your podcasting app of choice, YouTube, and/or support us on patreon! https://www.patreon.com/VGNRTM Send comments on twitter @videogamenewsr2 Or Instagram https://www.instagram.com/vgnrtm Or videogamenewsroomtimemachine@gmail.com Sources: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cornerstone_(software) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Douglas_Adams https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simon_%26_Schuster https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Activision https://www.hackerpledge.org/ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Snyder_(animator) http://teacher.scholastic.com/products/tomsnyder.htm https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soup2Nuts https://www.mobygames.com/developer/sheet/view/developerId,14936/ https://www.mobygames.com/company/legend-entertainment-company https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanfords https://www.mobygames.com/developer/sheet/view/developerId,52777/ https://www.mobygames.com/company/boffo-games-inc https://www.mobygames.com/developer/sheet/view/developerId,62246/ https://www.thenewseveryday.com/iconic-alien-and-back-to-the-future-designer-ron-cobb-has-died/ https://www.mobygames.com/company/rocket-science-games-inc https://www.mobygames.com/company/looking-glass-studios-inc https://www.mobygames.com/company/harmonix-music-systems-inc          

12 Pac Radio travels around the conference to look at each team's class after signing day; talk about the gaps in advanced models when it comes to transfers; and pokes at Stanfords decomposing recruiting staff. Thanks to Nextiva for sponsoring this show. Get excellent business phone service, video conferencing, team chat, call reporting, and more for a fraction of what you pay for these services separately. Visit nextiva.com/12pac to get started. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Any map lover who has ever been to London will know Stanfords Map & Travel Bookshop near Covent Garden. You can easily lose hours browsing in their amazing collection of maps, globes, and travel books covering every corner of the world. In this episode Steven chats with Vivien Godfrey, CEO of Stanfords. Vivien reviews the almost 200-year history of Stanfords, and then they discuss the general challenges of physical retail in the age of the digital, and then get into the difficult specifics of trying to operate a business in the era of covid and lockdowns. The situation is difficult and Stanfords have launched a crowdfunding campaign to help the business through this challenging period. With the holidays just around the corner, we can unreservedly recommend Stanfords to the Geomob community as the place to find geo themed gifts for any map or travel lover in your life. Please have a look and see what you can do to support this long-standing resource for the London geo community. Show notes on the Geomob website, where you can also learn more about Geomob events and make sure you're on our monthly email newsletter.

Stanfords, London's greatest travel store since the 1850s, is appealing for help to survive the pandemic. | Frommer's

Barnbokspodden läser höstens första Augustbok “Kom dagen kom natten” av Åsa Lind och Emma Virke. Sanna frågar sig hur pass bra tidsperspektiv barn egentligen har och Märta tar fram tumstocken för att mäta. Dessutom diskuterar vi hur man vänder en bok uppochned och om det är tortyr att lämna barn ensamma med marshmallows.

Barnbokspodden läser höstens första Augustbok “Kom dagen kom natten” av Åsa Lind och Emma Virke. Sanna frågar sig hur pass bra tidsperspektiv barn egentligen har och Märta tar fram tumstocken för att mäta. Dessutom diskuterar vi hur man...

The Stanfords continue their new series exploring the book of Jonah and how his story can help us grow in our faith as we battle the doubts and fears we are facing.

This week, the Stanfords begin a new series walking through the book of Jonah, as we learn what it looks like to obey God in difficult circumstances and trust him despite our doubts and fears.

This week, the Stanfords walk through some difficult questions that we often have about life, God, and his plan for the world.

This week, the Stanfords walk through Philippians 4 and the Sermon on the Mount in Matthew, as we learn what it looks like to practically apply the words of Jesus and Paul in our daily battle with anxiety and worry.

The Stanfords continue on their journey through the Anxiety Algorithm as we learn how to overcome worry through the power of God.

This week, the Stanfords walk through Philippians 4:6-7 as we learn what it looks like to find joy in the midst of anxiety and find healing from deep wounds in our lives.

In the battle against anxiety, prayer is one of our strongest weapons. The Stanfords teach us what it looks like to pray continually the way Jesus told us to pray.

When anxiety comes and you feel yourself caught in the middle of a crisis, how do you cope? The Stanfords start a new series that will help you discover a Biblical response to anxiety and find victory in the power of Jesus over our physical and mental struggles and brokenness.

Hey friends,This isn't the first time the Stanfords have discussed dealing with a difficult medical diagnosis on this show. For Shane and Pokey, this topic has hit close to home for more than three decades. Shane has battled HIV and hemophilia since he was a teenager, and when you've got tough diagnoses like those, things can start to look very grim very quickly.This episode feels even more important now that we're months into this jarring, inexplicable pandemic. I've felt myself getting more and more exhausted as the days and weeks stretch on. The news comes in waves, never-ending, and I'm starting to see people I know and love getting this virus.How do we handle something like this as followers of Jesus? How can we possibly have the hope that Paul and James talk about in their letters? The truth is, the secret to the hope-filled life won't come from a seminar or a book from a well-known author. It won't come from a news story or a Facebook post. The real, Tuesday-morning-in-a-pandemic, deeply-rooted hope that transcends world events and tragedies is something that can only grow inside us a day at a time through the power of the Holy Spirit.The Stanfords give some really great examples of how to take difficult circumstances a day at a time and seek after the One who can give you true hope.1. React honestly2. Reflect on the path forward3. Resource accordingly4. Respond faithfully5. Remember, you are more than the sum of what you survive.We would love to hear from you, friends. If you're walking through a difficult diagnosis, have a prayer request, or just want to share some comments with Pastor Shane, you can email him at pastorshane@youmatterministry.com.If you have technical questions, are interesting in being a contributor with You Matter Ministry, or want to become a sponsor of the show, you can email me at jonathan@youmatterministry.com.As always, we want you to visit our website at youmatterministry.com. Go into the world and be salt and light. You matter, friends!God bless,Jonathan GibsonExecutive Producer, You Matter Ministry

This week, the Stanfords discuss the five practical ways we can actively fight racism within the church and around our communities, as well as the importance of confession on the road to healing deep wounds.

Continuing their series on dealing with racism in the church, the Stanfords discuss how we can better advocate for people around us and petition for change in our own circles of influence.

Quarantine Edition! *We apologize for the audio quality of this episode* Follow us on Twitch, so you can tune in and chat when we go LIVE: www.twitch.tv/wereindutch --- This episode is sponsored by · Anchor: The easiest way to make a podcast. https://anchor.fm/app

Hey friends,This three-part series is now going to be a four-part one! There's just so much that needs to be said about this topic, and I know this won't be the last time we talk about these important issues. I think the hardest part about all of these conversations and problems being brought out into the light is that it's forced me to deal with prejudice I didn't even realize I had. I bet a lot of you are dealing with the same thing right now.That's a good thing, friends. It is a gift from God when He reveals to us those broken places in our hearts and He shows us the right way instead. He doesn't leave us to rot in our sin and pride. It hurts to have our hearts open and examined closely, but there is joy in the reconciliation and healing that comes when we let the Holy Spirit sanctify us!The Stanfords got today's six points from the Denison Forum, which has some really great resources on it. You can check the article that they're referencing out here: https://www.denisonforum.org/resources/what-does-the-bible-say-about-racism/.If you want to donate food or money to Hope House or Church Health in Memphis, here are the links to those ministries: https://www.hopehousememphis.org/https://churchhealth.org/We'd love to hear from you, friends. Send me an email at jonathan@youmatterministry.com and I can connect you with some of our incredible resources!God bless,Jonathan GibsonExecutive Producer

Racism has existed in America since the nation began, and it is present throughout the Old and New Testament. The Stanfords walk through some of this dark history and explore some key passages in Scripture that speak out against racism of any kind.

How should the church respond to the protests that have erupted around our nation because of police brutality and racism in America? The Stanfords take a Biblical perspective as they begin a new series on addressing racism in the church and around the country.

Welcome to our new occasional series, EMERGING FROM LOCKDOWN. In this first podcast, CHROMERADIO meets VIVIEN GODFREY, Chairman and CEO of world-famous map and travel shop, STANFORDS, based in London's Covent Garden, for a socially distanced chat about the shop's fascinating history - Florence Nightingale, Stanley, and Livingstone were customers - doing business under lockdown, and the challenges of emerging from it. https://www.stanfords.co.uk/ http://www.bluewaterweb.com/ PRODUCTION | Presenter & Producer - Catriona Oliphant for ChromeRadio | Post-production - Catriona Oliphant & Chris Sharp.

Hey friends,This episode is a difficult one, mostly because this particular time of my life—unexpectedly living in the middle of a global crisis—has left me feeling incredibly lonely myself. It's hard having everything you've come to know as 'normal' just crumble in front of your eyes. I'm having to learn how to step back and remind myself that there is no way to categorize where I was, where I am, and where I'm going as any kind of 'normal.' My past wasn't necessarily a better place to be than my present, in terms of what the world calls good and right and normal. My future is the same way.Jesus' entire mission was to show us that there is something greater than this world and this temporary life. He reminds us that in this life we will have trouble, but we can take heart because he has overcome the world.Our 'normal' may be gone. But maybe normal was never really there. God wants us to rest in His goodness, His faithfulness. He's the one who leads us and feeds us and cares for us. He doesn't always take us out of the valley of the shadow of death, but He walks beside us through it.I hope this episode can give you some peace and rest this week, friends. Whether you're walking through loneliness or you're struggling because you're surrounded by people and can't find space to be alone, the Stanfords have words of comfort for you that come straight from Scripture. Loneliness and depression don't have to be the end of the road for you. Like any chronic hurt, these things don't have to define you and they don't have to be a death sentence for your soul and your joy. In fact, as the apostle Paul reminds us, God's power is made perfect in our weakness, and His grace is sufficient for us.We'd love to hear from you. Send me an email at jonathan@youmatterministry.com. We want to answer your questions, get your feedback, and hear your prayer requests. You can also visit youmatterministry.com to view all our resources and get in touch with us.God bless,Jonathan Gibson

The Stanfords continue teaching through seven worries we face in our life as we look at what it looks like to live in Christ rather than living in crisis.

Stanfords football season comes to an ignominious end with a 45-24 loss to Notre Dame. We take a look at the game, and at our depressing 4-8 season as a whole. We also look at the Pac-12 bowl slate, and which of our guys made the All Conference team despite our overall crumminess!

Friday at #TheShowKC at Producer Joey is in Chicago with a wedding that features a magician and pet adoptions. Wha??? The Show kicks off and Truta is back after spending a day with a sick kid. He almost likes doing the show better at home (he can stay in his undies there). We get to entertainment news and the Seinfeld (non)-hug heard 'round the world. Weird dreams occupied our thoughts. And then Joel McHale (The Soup, Community) called up to chat...and we give you the FULL conversation right here. Next it's the movies opening up this weekend with B&B Theatres. Our buddy James Johann came in to promote his show at Stanfords and we roped him into playing the Beat Shazam game...and he was pretty good! Another quick round of entertainment news and we are off to the weekend. See you Monday!

From Friday's #TheShowKC: fall is here with a vengeance (for now). Stephen Baldwin is not amused by his brother's Trump impersonation. Jen accidentally dropped an "I love you" on our building's security guard. We took calls from people who have said "I love you" to someone out of habit. The Millennial Translator was back (in the form of Truta's bullhorn). People felt like things sound cooler when said through a megaphone, so Truta gave some shout-outs to local high schools and a couple of birthdays. Truta got Jen and Shaylee to play a game of "How Does The Story End" about a news anchor in Florida who became....well, just listen. Comedian James Johan stopped by for half a second to chat up his shows at Stanfords this weekend. And Jen tries to find a Halloween costume.

WIll C., the founder of The Veterans of Comedy, performs at Stanfords this weekend with Chad Thornsberry. Military members, first responders, police and fire can see these two KC natives FREE with ID at the door! Happy Memorial Day from #TheShowKC #MemorialDay #Veterans

Butch Patrick (Eddie Munster from #TheMunsters, naturally) joined us in studio to talk about his upcoming weekend gig at #Stanfords, the haunted house he purchased in Macon, #Missouri and to share some cool behind the scenes stories from The Munsters TV show.