Podcasts about Space Shuttle

“Therefore see that you walk carefully [living life with honor, purpose, and courage; shunning those who tolerate and enable evil], not as the unwise, but as wise [sensible, intelligent, discerning people], making the very most of your time [on earth, recognizing and taking advantage of each opportunity and using it with wisdom and diligence], because the days are [filled with] evil.” Ephesians 5:15-16 AMP   *Transcription Below*   Questions and Topics We Discuss: How did God meet you in your experience of army life to reveal your choice of hope vs. fear? What have you learned about community, both before and after your experience of launching your husband into space? For all of us, how can we rediscover our fun side when we've been trapped in survival mode for too long?   Stacey Morgan is always ready with a funny or thoughtful story from her own life; whether it be holding down the home front during military deployments, working for the Smithsonian, skydiving, or blasting  her husband into outer space. Stacey is on staff with MOPS International, a nonprofit focused on the unique needs of mothers around the world. She and her husband, Army colonel and NASA astronaut Drew Morgan, have four children.   Connect with Stacey on Instagram or through her website.   Other Savvy Sauce Episodes Related to Friendship: Friendship with Drew Hunter Reflecting Jesus in Our Relationships with Rach Kincaid Nurturing Friendships with Jackie Coleman Art of Friendship with Kim Wier   Thank You to Our Sponsors: Chick-fil-A East Peoria and The Savvy Sauce Charities (and donate online here)   Please help us out by sharing this episode with a friend, leaving a 5-star rating and review, and subscribing to this podcast!   Connect with The Savvy Sauce on Facebook, Instagram or Our Website   Gospel Scripture: (all NIV)   Romans 3:23 “for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,”   Romans 3:24 “and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.”   Romans 3:25 (a) “God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood.”   Hebrews 9:22 (b) “without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.”   Romans 5:8 “But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.”   Romans 5:11 “Not only is this so, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.”   John 3:16 “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.”   Romans 10:9 “That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.”   Luke 15:10 says “In the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents.”   Romans 8:1 “Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus”   Ephesians 1:13–14 “And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God's possession- to the praise of his glory.”   Ephesians 1:15–23 “For this reason, ever since I heard about your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love for all the saints, I have not stopped giving thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers. I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the spirit of wisdom and revelation, so that you may know him better. I pray also that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened in order that you may know the hope to which he has called you, the riches of his glorious inheritance in the saints, and his incomparably great power for us who believe. That power is like the working of his mighty strength, which he exerted in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms, far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every title that can be given, not only in the present age but also in the one to come. And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church, which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way.”   Ephesians 2:8–10 “For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith – and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God – not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God‘s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.“   Ephesians 2:13 “But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ.“   Philippians 1:6 “being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.”   *Transcription*   Music: (0:00 – 0:09)   Laura Dugger: (0:09 - 2:54) Welcome to The Savvy Sauce, where we have practical chats for intentional living. I'm your host, Laura Dugger, and I'm so glad you're here. I want to say a huge thank you to today's sponsors for this episode, Chick-fil-A East Peoria and Savvy Sauce Charities.   Are you interested in a free college education for you or someone you know? Stay tuned for details coming later in this episode from today's sponsor, Chick-fil-A East Peoria. You can also visit their website today at https://www.chick-fil-a.com/locations/il/east-peoria.   I'm so excited to share a special Patreon re-release episode. And if you've been with The Savvy Sauce for a while, you know that we used to make some money by having people sign up for Patreon and as a reward, they would get access to special episodes. Now we have done away with that as we've transitioned to becoming a nonprofit, and we want to make all of these episodes available to you, so we re-release a few every year.   What I'd love to ask is, as we're approaching the end of year because we've taken out that revenue stream, would you consider financially supporting Savvy Sauce Charities?   There are two simple ways. First, if you want to mail us a check, that saves us all of the processing fees, and you can make that out to Savvy Sauce Charities and mail it to P.O. Box 101, Roanoke, Illinois 61561. Also, if you want to go online, visit thesavvysauce.com and you can type in different words to the search button. You could type in “donate” or “support” and it should take you to the place where there's a button to click and put in your credit card information and give that way. We would be so grateful for any amount, and we love our partnership with you.   Here's our chat.   Stacey Morgan is my guest today, and you may have heard her name in the news over the past few years. She has documented her story in her debut book, The Astronaut's Wife: How Launching My Husband into Outer Space Changed the Way I Live on Earth. And now she's going to share more about that season and all the lessons God taught her about making the most of her one incredible life, and she's going to inspire each of us to do the same.   Here's our chat. Welcome to The Savvy Sauce, Stacey.   Stacey Morgan: (2:55 - 2:58) I am so excited to be here. Thank you for having me.   Laura Dugger: (2:58 - 3:07) Well, it is truly my pleasure. And will you just start by giving us a little bit more context for our time together and just share a few things about yourself?   Stacey Morgan: (3:08 - 4:49) Sure. Well, hi, my name is Stacey. I currently live in Texas.   I have four kids. I'm married to a guy named Drew who has kind of an unusual job. I grew up in a small town just outside of Boston and was kind of a scholar-athlete growing up interested in a lot of different things but always involved in church and youth group. And that really served me well when I went off to college.   The first college I went to, West Point. And actually, I'll tell you in a minute, but that is where I eventually met my now husband, Drew.   We got married after I graduated from undergrad. He's a little bit older than me and he is an Army officer. And so, we have moved all over the country. We've lived on both coasts and had a number of kinds of unusual situations just, you know, kind of typical for a military family living all over the place.   I've had a lot of crazy jobs. I think mainly I have an unusual story because I'm really quick to say yes to things, which sometimes, you know, it's a double-edged sword. Sometimes you say yes and you realize, “I should have thought through that a little bit more.” But really it's been quite an adventure because we have had the opportunity to live in a lot of different places, experience a lot of different things.   And we ended up here in 2013. We can kind of get into that if you want, but we ended up down here in Texas with my husband, who is still an Army officer, but he became a NASA astronaut. And so, that totally changed the direction of our lives and kind of changing all the plans we had for what we were supposed to be doing in the military and ending up down here at Johnson Space Center. Then, him eventually launching into outer space.   Laura Dugger: (4:49 - 5:01) Wow, there are so many points to unpack, but let's back it up to what you had mentioned about West Point. So, will you just elaborate and tell us more about how you and Drew met and fell in love?   Stacey Morgan: (5:01 - 7:21) Sure. So, we were both cadets at West Point when we met. He was a little bit older than me, but we met through Officers' Christian Fellowship, which is a Christian club that is very popular on military bases, both at the academies but in big Army and other services as well when you get out.   It's a, you know, it's like small groups, typical for what most people would find comfortable in kind of church community. And so, we met there and we just kind of clicked, you know.   I would say it's funny looking back, we were not the type of people I think we would have thought we would marry. He was far more serious than I am. I'm a little bit more, I'm the one to more kind of like walk the fine line, but we work together really well.   We've always been a great team. That's always been a real theme in our marriage, you know, that we are a team. And, you know, when he proposed after I graduated from undergrad, he kind of said, “I promise you a life of adventure,” which at the time sounded wonderful and adorable.   Of course, it has come back to haunt me several times when he has been, you know, come up with some crazy plan and when I hesitate he's like, “I promised you adventure.” And I'm like, “Now that's unfair. I did not know when you said adventure back in 2000 that you meant all these crazy things like going to space or all these different deployments and all this kind of stuff like that.”   So, we now have four kids. We've been married this summer will be 22 years. And, you know, it hasn't been without its challenges like any marriage and certainly any marriage under stress because of stressful situations, whether that's military deployments, whether that's space travel or just kind of life and parenting. And as you kind of grow up together and get to know each other and the world changes around you, we've certainly had ups and downs, but we are a team.   And I think God has really honored that and it's been really helpful for us when we've had those sticky seasons where you just feel like, “Man, we are just not connecting or kind of jiving the way we would want,” to actually say to each other that we are on the same team and that has been really helpful.   Laura Dugger: (7:22 - 7:40) The part of your story that involves space travel is one that most of us will never be able to relate to experientially, but it's still extraordinary. So, can you walk us through the detailed events leading up to 9:28 p.m. on July 20th, 2019?   Stacey Morgan: (7:42 - 15:28) Sure. So, I should back it up one big step behind that just to give everybody a little context. So, in 2012, we were kind of living our lives. We had always been deep into the Army Special Operations community. We love that. In order to live and kind of thrive in that environment you have to be all in, and we were all in.   And one day my husband came home and he was uncharacteristically giddy and he said, “You're not gonna believe this huge news. NASA is opening up the application window for a new class of astronauts.”   And I thought, “Why are you telling me this? This has no bearing whatsoever on our lives. We are on this path and that is a completely different path.”   And he said, “Well, I want to apply.”   And I thought to myself, “Well, I wanted to be a ballerina at one point in life, but that ship sailed. Like who doesn't say they always wanted to be an astronaut? Like this seems like a childhood fantasy.”   But he said, “No, I just want to apply. Like don't worry, all of our plans are gonna stay the same. They've never selected an Army physician before. I just, you know, I want to...” You know, the joke was that you'll always be a NASA applicant, right? And that'll be great. We'll laugh about it at family Christmases and stuff.   Except he kept making it through every gate. And so, in 2013 we got the call that completely took our life off of one set of train tracks and put it on another. At that time, we were currently stationed just outside of Washington DC at Fort Belvoir. We were supposed to be literally the next week moving to Germany. And that's how close these changes kind of came up on themselves. And so, we had to unravel everything for Germany and move to Houston, Texas, because that's where Johnson Space Center is.   And so, he began his training in 2013. I started my journey in learning a whole new culture, a whole new way of doing life. I'd never lived in a place that was at least not near a military base or within a military community. Didn't quite recognize at the time how much that shared sense of community had made things easier in terms of connecting with people before that and when I didn't have it.   So, it was probably our rockiest transition for me personally that I'd ever had in terms of friendships and getting connected. That's a big part of my story because I think friendship struggles are so common for adult women. It's just something that nobody really teaches us how to do and so a lot of women are very lonely.   But fast forward, he trained for several years until it was eventually his turn to fly. And in 2019, the only way to get to the International Space Station was to fly on a Russian Soyuz rocket. So, some people are very confused because they think, “Well, every space movie I've ever watched is taking place in Florida, right? Whether that's Apollo 13 or Armageddon or whatever. Why didn't he launch from Florida?”   Well, between 2011 and 2020, the Space Shuttle program had ended. SpaceX Crew Dragon had not yet started launching from Florida again. So, for about a 10-year period, the only way to get to and from the International Space Station was to ride a Russian rocket.   So, that's what NASA did. They went into partnership with the Russians, which of course makes things very interesting given today's kind of current political climate and all the world events. But that meant when it was Drew's turn to launch, we as a family had to travel to Kazakhstan, which is a country that I could not spell before 2019.   And so, if you don't know where that is, don't feel bad. I didn't either. I had to look it up. It's a former Soviet Republic really kind of in between Russia and Afghanistan. So, it is in the middle of nowhere. And when the Soviets were building their space program in the 1950s and 60s, they built their secret space city there in Kazakhstan. That's where they started their space program and they have kind of kept it unchanged and they continue to launch their rockets from there today.   It was a whole kind of world travel and cultural experience to take my four kids to Kazakhstan, which is a completely different cultural experience for really what came down to a very stressful, very emotional moment really waiting for that launch. So, unlike Florida, which you know when you watch on television, it's colorful, there's a lot of people, a lot of spectators, big people remember from the shuttle days big countdown clock, a loudspeaker kind of telling everybody what's going on... that's not how it is in Kazakhstan.   So, about 30 minutes before the launch, the kids and I were brought to this viewing area. And by viewing area I would say big field. It's not... there was kind of some grandstands area far at the other end of the field, but that's where all the space tourists stand and the press and all that kind of stuff and we didn't want to be near them. So, our escort brought us down to the end, the other end of the field, and it's just dark and it's quiet and there's no announcements. There's no countdown clock. It's just looking at your watch or your phone there just kind of in the dark and you just know that that Russian ground crew is going to launch that rocket at exactly 9:28 p.m. Not a minute earlier, not a minute later.   And so, standing there in the dark holding my kids' hands, and we can see the rocket in the distance only about a mile away, which by rocket launch standards is very close. Knowing that in a minute or 30 seconds or 10 seconds as it gets closer, it's either going to be one of the best days of your life, super exciting, super proud moment, or it's going to be the worst day of your life, and you could become a widow.   And as much as it's easy to kind of get complacent because incidents are so rare, but we all can remember any number of space disasters that have happened. Columbia, Challenger, those are very real. And with my time down here at Johnson Space Center, you come to learn those names and you meet those families and you meet those widows and widowers and you realize that space travel is dangerous. You know, at the end of the day my husband was in a little tiny capsule on top of a rocket full of highly explosive fuel. So, it's very scary.   And in that moment standing there thinking, “In 10 seconds my life is going to change no matter what happens.” Even if this goes perfectly, what happens next? I don't really know. It's kind of like having a baby. You can read all about it and assume things will be the way they're going to be, but until you're in it and then it happens, you don't really know how it's gonna go.   And so, it was a really overwhelmingly emotional moment because you think this could go sideways. And also, by the way, the world is watching live with me. So, if something goes wrong, I'm not able to process this privately. I will be experiencing it in real time with the rest of the world.   But even if it goes perfectly, what happens next? Like what does it look like to live on earth with a spouse in space and single parent for nine plus months while their other parent is in space? And you really don't know and it's scary to think like, “Gosh, what if something happens?” You know, he can't like come home early. Can't just like a business trip jump on a plane or a train and get home early. There's no coming back early. So, whatever happens, I'm on my own for better or worse. I'm on my own and I hope I have the endurance and the support system and everything I'm gonna need in order to be successful in this nine months.   Laura Dugger: (15:28 - 15:47) And my heart is pounding a little bit faster just as I hear you describe this. And I'd love to get back to your story, but first just to pause and wonder with that mixture of this adventure right in front of you and then your experience of army life, how did God meet you in all of that to reveal your choice of you're able to choose hope or fear?   Stacey Morgan: (15:47 - 22:32) Right. So, you know, when you take the time to step back and think, sometimes you don't see these patterns in your life until you kind of start putting them down on paper. And it was interesting for me to see how God had prepared me for that moment with other moments, especially related to military deployments in the past. Because certainly experiencing a rocket launch and all that fear and kind of this moment of where is my hope found in this moment, that was a varsity level moment.   But I'm so thankful that about ten years earlier God really started to prepare me for that moment with some other big moments. Like when my husband deployed for the first time.   I'll never forget, it was the height of the War on Terror. So, we were living in a military community which was amazing and a lot of my friends' husbands were also serving in the same military units or similar military units and they were deploying. The tempo was high so that meant, you know, six months deployed or longer, coming home for short amounts of time and then deploying again. Lots of action specifically in Afghanistan and Iraq at the time.   And so, lots of fatalities, lots of injuries, lots of grief, and for spouses a lot of fear because we knew what they were doing was very dangerous. And so, for me and my friends we kind of had this unspoken rule which I think a lot of people can understand which was, “Let's just not talk about this scariest thing because somehow talking about it makes it seem more possible.”   And as crazy as that is to say, people get that. You know, there's a lot of things we don't talk about because it's just too scary to think about. And so, for us the scariest thing in our life at that time was the fear that our husbands would not come home, that they would be killed in action. And that felt very real because we were going to memorial services, we were visiting people in the hospital, we were turning on the news and seeing what was going on in the world. And there was often communication blackouts because we knew that they were doing things that were very dangerous, very secretive.   And so, at the time I happily did what everybody else was doing which was, “Let's just not talk about it. Let's just kind of live life managing.” We felt like we were managing this fear, I think that's what I would have said at the time.   But then one day my friend Lisa, who's an amazing friend and she's always like two steps ahead of me on the wisdom scale, we were having coffee on her front porch and she turned to me and she said, “I've been thinking a lot about what life would be like if our husbands were killed.”   And this was like a bomb drop. I mean because we just were not supposed to be talking about this. Like here the rest of us had been avoiding all morbid thoughts about what could possibly happen with our husband and instead she had like turned and looked it straight in the eye.   And I was shocked. And so, I kind of sat up straighter and I said, “What do you mean?”   And she said, “Well, I've been thinking about it and it's not that, you know, life would certainly be hard and doesn't mean we wouldn't need counseling or our kids wouldn't need support, but life would still go on even if that happened. Life would still go on. Life would still be full of good things and God would provide and bring people around us to support us and I've just been thinking about that.”   And I was stunned. I was absolutely stunned because while the rest of us were too afraid to face that fear, in looking at it she kind of exposed it for what it was, which was certainly real and an absolute possibility that that could happen. But when she started walking down the path of like, “Okay, if this happened then what would happen?” You have to decide, “Do I believe God would really be with me or not? Do I believe His promises are true that He will be with me on good days and bad days and that He will draw people to me who will love me and support me? And have I plugged myself into friends and a faith community that would be there for me if that happened?”   And it was a game changer. That was probably one of, at the time, the biggest life-changing conversations I'd ever had as an adult because it really did shift how I viewed feeling afraid about things like that. And so, I had several opportunities... Drew deployed several times and then certainly doesn't take combat deployments to feel afraid like that. I know I have felt it before when my daughter was in the NICU, you know, and I had to leave her in the NICU and go home at night. I know I have felt it during this pandemic several times. I know I'm gonna feel it when I drop my oldest off at college this summer. You know, this moment where it just life feels very scary mainly because of the unknowns that come next and the fact that you have no control over those.   And so, that rocket launch moment was, you know, I felt like God was really prompting me in that moment to say, “Hey, if this rocket explodes like what will you do with that? Do you still trust me that I'm here with you and that I will still bring people to you and love you? Like is your support, is your foundation and your hope truly found in me or is it found in this rocket launch going successfully? Because it might not, and then what does that mean for you?”   And so, it really was this choice of am I gonna choose to live a life of fear, which is our default because if you do not choose something else we will always live a life dictated by fear of something. It's exhausting to live like that because once you conquer one fear another one's gonna pop up. Then they come in bunches and they just start layering on top of each other. Honestly it can lead to despair because there's plenty of things in the world to be afraid of and new ones just pop up every day.   So instead, I felt like God was offering me a new way of living and it really felt tangible in that moment of that rocket launch which is, “Hey, I hope that you will choose to find your hope in me. Just me. The one unchanging thing in this world that will be unchanging regardless of what happens with this rocket launch in 10 seconds. But if it goes well or if it goes poorly I am unchanging. You can rely on me. I will be with you in the best and the worst of times. And even if the rocket launch goes successfully and whatever happens in the next nine months, I'm with you there as well. So, you don't need to be afraid because I'm here with you. You can have hope that I will enable you to do what must be done no matter what happens tomorrow.”   Laura Dugger: (22:32 - 22:49) I'm so grateful that you chose hope and you chose faith. And then after all of that excitement and that adrenaline experienced on launch day, what did your life look like in the months to follow?   Stacey Morgan: (22:49 - 26:47) Yeah, it wasn't easy. You know I joke that those nine months really were like it was like a master class in all these little lessons I've learned throughout the years, but I'd never had to put them into practice at this level and all at the same time.   So, things like being honest about that I needed help. That, you know, there are times in the past where I have certainly wanted people to know or think that I had it all together and that I could do it all by myself especially, you know, I think every mom feels that way.   Certainly, military spouses, we take a lot of pride and feel like I'm doing this on my own.   And I realize now that I had certain seasons I have made life a lot harder for myself because I somehow thought that there was like an extra trophy if I finish the race by myself. I said that it was like, spoiler, there's no trophy. And also, I was just making it harder for myself.   And so, this season I could not fake it. Like past seasons I could fake it. This one I could not fake it. I had two teenagers, two tweens, a lot of hormones and then prepubescent and puberty things flying around. Just a lot of scheduling, a lot of driving, like just life. And then just the stress of living with someone who, you know, a spouse who was living in space and the stress of what does that do to your marriage, to parenting and, you know, parent-child relationships. Just every single piece of running a house, of parenting all the things, was solely on my shoulders and that's a big weight. And it was tough. It was tough.   So, I could not fake it. I had to ask for help. I had to be willing to ask for it and receive it, which are two different skill sets I found. It's sometimes you get good at one and not the other. I had to get really willing to be vulnerable as my friends and say things like, “I'm really lonely.” Can you know, it's like being honest. Like everything's not just, “Oh, this is so exciting. Oh, isn't it so great? Aren't we just so proud of them?” Yes, but at the same time sometimes I'm lonely. Sometimes I'm struggling.   Sometimes in my stress I would overly focus on trying to control my home life or what was happening within my own house and become not as pleasant of a person to live with because I was just trying to kind of regain some control in what felt like a little bit of a chaotic world and then you become not your best self and you know that. And so, I had to learn how to kind of get out of that survival mode and still have fun even when life is hard. And really just kind of accept that life isn't one thing or the other. You can be in a hard season and it still have good things in it. Life can be full of opportunities and challenges and one does not negate the other. And when you try to live your life by one narrative or the other, not only are you faking it but you make life harder than it needs to be and you kind of block other people out of it.   So, there was a lot of learning going on in there but we really all came down to that first decision of how am I gonna live my life in this season? Am I gonna live it fearfully, reactionary, hair trigger, you know, just stress all the time because I'm afraid of what comes next. I'm not sure if I'm gonna be able to handle it? Or am I gonna live a life of hope, which is of course like not wishes and dreams but it is anticipation that God will be with me no matter what comes down the pipeline. And sometimes that's divine comfort that is hard to explain but you just feel it. Sometimes it's people he draws to your life who literally will sit on the couch with you and just like hold your hand or give you a hug that moment you need it. Sometimes it's someone offering to carpool or take your kid out driving because they're trying to get their driver's license, you know?   But that's really the biggest thing for me. I talked about it in chapter one of the book because that's the foundation that really all those other lessons were built on.   Laura Dugger: (26:47 - 27:26) And I think also with your book, it was helpful to hear little insights into what it looked like for your marriage. And it was even interesting when you said it's really important for astronauts to have forms of entertainment and that you were so committed to being involved in Drew's life and that you two still found ways to stay connected. I just think that has to be encouraging to any married couples listening right now because you clearly had a big barrier to overcome. But what were some of those ways that the two of you tried as best as you could in that season to stay intimately connected to one another's lives?   Stacey Morgan: (27:26 - 31:19) Yeah, it's not easy. And I think there's kind of this fallacy that is kind of dangerous for especially young married I think to believe which is like in every season of your life you're gonna feel amazingly connected to your spouse and you're gonna constantly be growing in your relationship. And sometimes that's not true. Like sometimes one person has a job that takes them away from home or someone is sick or there are other issues going on in your life where the connection is just not as strong not because you don't want it to be but because the circumstances you find yourself in don't allow for that.   And certainly, while my husband was in space that was a lot of challenges to feeling connected. I mean there's good communication but there's a difference between like quality and quantity, right? So, he could call me on the phone every day but because of the time differences and his schedule the only time he could call me was between 4:00 and 5:00 p.m. my time, which as any person knows and with any kids, is like the worst time of the day. Like everything's happening, the wheels are coming off, homework, pickups, dinner prep, like all that kind of stuff was crazy.   So, needless to say, I was not able to sit down and have like a heartfelt drawn-out conversation. And then kids hate talking on the phone so he wasn't really talking to them during the day. I'm like, you know, my eight-year-old isn't gonna send him an email. So, you know, there wasn't like a lot of quality or quantity conversation with the kids which of course puts a little stress on your marriage too because you worry about that.   And then we have one video chat a month and you want it to be fun. You want it to kind of be good for the kids as well as him but it's a very, you know, it's one hour to share between five people and so that's not a lot of time. And so, the reality is that for that season there was a lot of, I would say, relationship treading water. And you're, you know, the goal is just not to let things go downhill, which you can easily do in life when you and your spouse are experiencing the same event but from different points of view. And that's what we were doing. You know, we were sharing the mission but from two vastly different points of view.   And so, you do your best. But the difference is I think you have to in order to kind of come out on the other end better, you have to have a kind of a mutual commitment that, “Hey, we're going to... we are eventually going to come back together on this. We can't change the circumstances. I can't make the time difference different. I can't give you more time on the phone. I can't... there's things I just cannot change. But we are committed as a team to doing the best we can right now and when this circumstance changes, in this case when he came home, we're gonna kind of back up again and do some story sharing and reconnect about some things that we just didn't have the opportunity to in the past.”   And so, it's a little bit kind of like two steps forward one step back but eventually you still come out ahead if you are committed to trying to come back together and share those experiences in one way or another. Where you run into kind of danger is if people start experiencing two different things and then they never come back together so the gap just kind of keeps widening and widening. And then you hear when people say like, “Yeah, I woke up and I felt like I was living a different life than the person who was sleeping next to me.”   And so, reminding us to ourselves that we are a team even though we were experiencing the same thing. I didn't know a lot about a lot of the things he was doing. He didn't know a lot of stories about how things were for me. And so, it's okay to tell them later if you don't have the ability to tell them in the moment as long as you both have the goodwill and you prioritize coming back together eventually.   Laura Dugger: (31:19 - 34:26) And now a brief message from our sponsor.   Did you know you can go to college tuition free just by being a team member at Chick-fil-A East Peoria? Yes, you heard that right. Free college education. All Chick-fil-A East Peoria team members in good standing are immediately eligible for a free college education through Point University.   Point University is a fully accredited private Christian college located in West Point, Georgia. This online self-paced program includes 13 associate's degrees, 17 bachelor's degrees, and two master's programs, including an MBA. College courses are fully transferable both in and out of this program. This could even be a great option to complete your general education courses and then transfer to the college of your choice and save money in the process. So, if you're looking for an affordable college option while simultaneously gaining valuable work experience and earning an income, Chick-fil-A East Peoria is the place for you. You don't have to go into debt to get a great education. To apply today, please go to https://www.chick-fil-a.com/locations/il/east-peoria  and click on the careers tab. You can also call the restaurant at 309-694-1044 to find out more. And if you aren't located near Chick-fil-A East Peoria, make sure you check with your local Chick-fil-A restaurant to see if they also participate in the Elevate program with Point University. Thanks for your sponsorship.   Did you know that this podcast is 100% listener supported? We love producing free content that's available to everyone around the world with our monthly newsletters when you sign up for our email list and with our weekly episodes. We pray that this has been a benefit to you. That if any episode has ever impacted you, what we ask is that you will partner with us now and generously and prayerfully give financially before the end of the year. There's multiple ways to do this. Online at thesavvysauce.com, you can donate through Stripe,  PayPal, or Venmo with just a simple click. Or you can send snail mail to us at Savvy Sauce Charities, P.O. Box 101 Roanoke, Illinois, 61561. We hope you choose to support us today and during this season especially.   It sounds like you really leaned into your friendships. So, what would you say you've learned about community both before and after your experience of launching Drew into space?   Stacey Morgan: (34:26 - 38:07) Well, I tell you what, I realized that as an adult often a lot of us don't really know how to do friendship well. And our culture is so, it so values independence that we often convince ourselves that if we tell our friends or our community that we need help or just kind of show our true heart for how important it is to us, that somehow that's gonna be kind of like devalued or we're gonna feel weak. And I realized like, “Man, I wasted a lot of years trying to be tougher than I really am.” And I wish I could go back and change that because in this season, mainly because I had no choice. And so, God really used this opportunity to show me like, “Hey, I'm gonna kind of like force you to open up your heart, be vulnerable with this small group of really trusted friends and like just trust me to see what happens next.”   And I did and it was a game-changer. I mean, I have a lot of deep feelings but I put a little bit of a tough exterior and I forced myself to be super honest and super vulnerable with my friends and say things like, “I'm lonely or I don't even know what I need but I'm just feeling exhausted or angry or this is really frustrating to me or I need help with this and I don't even know where to begin.” And just let those friends step into my life in a really intimate way.   And you know, I think we've all had a friend at some point who has asked for help and we have been so happy to help them and we've never thought less of them for it. But somehow when it comes to our own time we're like, “Oh, I don't want to trouble anybody. Oh, they're gonna think I can't handle it.” Or like, “Well, this is like I made this bed so I better lie in it. You chose to have all these kids, you chose this career, you chose this whatever, like this is your problem.” But we would never say that about another friend. And so, I don't know why we are harder on ourselves than we are on our friends because it's not right. Most of our friends are happy to help us. They love us helping us, being with us, comforting us, supporting us. That's how they show how important you are to them and we need to let them do that.   I've also gotten better about verbalizing the feelings that I had always felt inside but I felt awkward verbalizing. Like, “Thank you for being my friend.” Or like, “Thank you for just spending this time with me,” or, “You are an important person in my life.” Words that we say to our kids, that we often say to our spouses, but sometimes for me at least felt weird saying to friends and I'm really trying to get better about that. That was a great nine months of practice. It doesn't come easy or natural I think to anybody but it's a game changer. Like why not tell your friends how much they mean to you?   So, community is essential. Like don't try to lone wolf this life. I've certainly had some more extreme experiences than probably the average person, but the principles are the same. Get plugged into community and have multiple circles of community. Certainly, your faith community but also you know if you work, if you go to the gym, if you go to school, like your kids' friends, like there's so many circles of community and don't be afraid to just jump right in and get connected. And you've got to do it before you are in crisis. You've got to kind of invest in these friendships so that you know them and can trust these friends so that when those seasons come that are hard you have this small group of people who you can rely on. It will be a complete game changer in your life when you have a small, could be one person, can be two people, trusted people who can journey with you.   Laura Dugger: (38:07 - 38:34) I could not agree more. I really think that friendship is one of the most precious gifts were given in this life. And going back to your marriage we had discussed that time of separation but then there was a whole other season of transition as well. So, what was it like to come back together after being apart for nearly 10 months?   Stacey Morgan: (38:34 - 42:55) Yeah, so it's funny there's always these Hollywood romanticized versions of what reunions must look like whether that's a military deployment reunion or you know when an astronaut comes home. And I think people assume it's some kind of like hot sexy romantic can't keep hands off of you but the reality is far different, right? Because it's... I mean maybe it is, maybe that's how it is for some people. I will just say for us, you know, when you've been living an independent life for however long, whether that was you know a six-month or an eight-month deployment or a nine-month deployment to outer space, you know I was living my own life fully independent for that long where I made all the choices. I didn't have anybody looking over my shoulder or you know there's a little bit of independent freedom there when you're the only one kind of making the big decisions.   And so, when that person comes back into your life, which you want them to come back, you're happy they're home, but there is this awkward transition period. It's definitely an opportunity for some tension because now there's another opinion back in the mix, right?   Like I had to kind of adjust my way of doing life for another person who had a valid opinion, another decision maker. The kids had to adjust to having another parent back in the house. You're kind of getting to know each other so there is a little bit of a sniffing out period where you're like, “Hey, nice to meet you.” Because we all change. You know you could be gone from someone for a month, you know, you're not the same person you were today as you were last year or six months ago or maybe even a month ago. So, anytime someone comes back in your life they're different, you're a little different. You're like my friendships had shifted over those ten months, like my work had shifted, everything in my life had moved on and he had not been there in the house with me to experience that so there was... it was a whole new set of experiences and a new person to get to know again.   Now he came home and what made it a little bit more dramatic was that Drew came home in the startup of the pandemic. He came home in April of 2020 which at the time I think we weren't sure, “Are we going up? Are we coming down?” We know now looking back we realize things were just ramping up; the world was, we were all still very confused about what's the best thing to do can we all the things you know. So, NASA pretty much brought him home and then he came home to our house after just a few days in kind of the quarantine facility there on Johnson Space Center. But then he came back to our house and then it's like he never left because all of the normal stuff that would happen when you come home from space like travel and meetings and all these kind of things were all canceled or postponed.   And so, instead of kind of like getting to know each other slowly it was like zero to sixty. I mean he was home and he didn't go anywhere, none of us could go anywhere. So, we joke that the irony that he was in space with five professional crew mates in a small space and then he came home to live in our small space with five amateur crew mates who are certainly not nearly as gracious or accommodating or helpful as the professional astronaut and cosmonaut crew mates he had. The irony is not lost on us. So, he came home I don't think we've ever spent that amount of time together you know 24/7 in the same house with all four of our kids, no school, nowhere to go because everything's closed. And so yeah we're getting to know each other in this kind of Petri dish of new experiences as the world is also kind of like upside down and everything's unusual.   So, in the end it was okay. I joke like we did a lot of “I was like let me go do this puzzle I just need some alone time” or “I'm going for a walk around the neighborhood please don't text me. I'll be back when I'll be back I just need a few minutes to myself.” I think everybody has had that moment in the during the last two years where you're just like, “I just need a few minutes alone please,” you know in my if you've been trapped in your house with somebody who you're not normally with 24/7.   Laura Dugger: (42:56 - 43:17) Well sure and with your experience, mental health is very important for the family of the astronaut and the astronaut themselves. Wasn't it your psychologist who is saying typically when you come back and enter this time of reentry and reuniting you do little bit by little bit because that tends to be wiser?   Stacey Morgan: (43:17 - 45:22) Yes, that's right. They call it titrating a return. That's a principle they have in the military as well which is they would normally come back from a deployment for at least the first couple weeks back from a long trip away they would go to work every day for several hours because it's you know psychologically difficult for two people who have been living very independent lives to come back together just with like zero transition. The military has learned this over the last 20 years you know that you could go from a combat zone to mowing your lawn in 24 hours. That's stressful especially if you add in you know marriage baggage, kids you know nagging kids or issues like that, financial struggles, that's a kind of what can be a breeding ground for some really difficult situation. So, it's best to let people get to know each other again a little bit at a time.   Like you said the normal return from space was kind of the same thing. It would be come home and then you'd have some physical therapy, you'd have these different meetings and it would be a little bit like going to work for several weeks while they're getting their body and everything back to normal. Then, you kind of could have this kind of extended time at home but it gave both people the ability to kind of like reintroduce themselves to each other in bits and pieces and just kind of ease into it. But we did not have that luxury so we kind of had to create it ourselves. And I am glad again that we had those past experiences to know where the potential minefields were. If you were not prepared you could be very disappointed if you went into it thinking, “Oh, they're gonna come home, it's gonna be like romantic. We're gonna be like together and loving it all the time and just connecting so deeply. It's gonna be amazing.” And then the first time that your spouse is like, “Why are you emptying the dishwasher like that?” It's important to know like, “Yeah, if there is going to be tension it is going to be awkward. That's okay that is part of the normal cycle and it's gonna be okay.” But I'm glad that we had that knowledge beforehand because it could be tough.   Laura Dugger: (45:22 - 46:07) Well and Stacey another reason that I really appreciate you being willing to let us enter your story with you. When we have different careers or we have someone in the military and a civilian who's not involved, there's so much room for assumptions and maybe not always assuming the best. There's opportunity for miscommunication so I'm just wondering about the person who's hearing this and what if they're thinking, “Well that sounds irresponsible or even selfish of Drew to choose this path if he's a husband and father.” So, how would you offer that kind of person another perspective that they might be missing?   Stacey Morgan: (46:07 - 48:20) I mean I would say is when it comes to astronauts for sure, you know, these are not like hot-rodding thrill-seeking people. In fact, I would say I think a lot of people make the assumption that people who do some of these higher like physically higher risky jobs must be like thrill-seeking you know just thrown caution to the wind about everything in their life. Actually, nothing could be farther from the truth. I think you would find that we certainly and I would you know I think a lot of people in the same career field are similar and that we are good risk calculators. And that like policemen, like firemen, like military personnel you know it's an act of service to be in this job. These are not just like you know space tourists or billionaires getting on a rocket for fun. These are professionals who have chosen a career field of service and whether that is as a policeman, a fireman, a service to the nation, service to humanity, service to their community and they all play a part in that.   I think most people recognize that that it is you know there's something to be said for the person who chooses a career that has a level of risk because they feel called to it and because thank God for people who will take on risk and are willing to potentially sacrifice themselves for someone else. I mean I think it's kind of a higher calling which is why in general in our culture we honor them and rightfully so. It is risky, it's very risky. They certainly don't do it for the money. I don't think anybody in any kind of government service would say that they're doing it for the money, that's for sure. You know they're doing it because they feel called to something bigger than themselves and to serve their fellow man in some way. That's certainly I know how we feel as a family that his choosing to transition as an Army physician into being still in the Army but serving in this capacity was just the next level up. The way he could serve our community, our country, our nation and all of humanity and he really is its service first. It's the opposite of selfish; it is selfless service really.   Laura Dugger: (48:20 - 48:55) Mm-hmm thank you for that. I just say amen to everything you just said. Really it's service from your entire family that requires a sacrifice from each of you like you said for the greater good. And I think something else that you pointed out so well in your book was that having this value more so of security or not living into this calling that you said this calling was put upon your lives that could actually be idolatry if you're starting to place a higher value on security or anything else other than God and so I think you model that well.   Stacey Morgan: (48:55 - 51:13) Thank you. Yeah I think a lot of people you know sometimes these idols creep up on us we don't realize that we have put something on a pedestal until it gets threatened to be taken away from us and all of a sudden our reaction is over the top because we're you know you realize, “Gosh, I'm finding my security in this thing I'm finding my identity in this thing whether this thing is a job, another person, a political party, a scientific breakthrough whatever it is.” Right? Like and I think a lot of people, I certainly felt it you know in that launch moment like, “Am I finding my identity in being married to this person or him having this job or this launch being successful? Because if I am in about 10 seconds my world may crumble because if that could all be taken away from me.” And in that yeah I think we all kind of have probably had a moment especially in the last two years where for a lot of people something that they have built their life on has been either taken away from them or has it has been threatened to be taken away because of the pandemic a job a person in their life you know a relationship your kids going off to school every day I mean whatever it is that you've built in your life and you have put on this pedestal and you kind of made without even realizing it have started to place more hope in those things remaining unchanged than you have in God. And all of a sudden when those things are threatened you have this over-the-top emotionally fearful response that's kind of an indicator I think to all of us like when we have that is like, “Whoo my fear and my response should tell me that I seem to be very very afraid that this is going to be taken away from me because I am putting too much hope in it. Instead, I should be taking that and putting it back where it belongs. I should reprioritize where I am finding my hope and the only unchanging thing that we can build our foundation on is God. Everything else, every person, everything, every job, every whatever it is can and could possibly be taken away from you and on your deathbed will be.” So, you know you can't help but have a little bit of self-reflection there.   Laura Dugger: (51:13 - 51:23) Well and then for all of us how do you recommend that we all can rediscover our fun side when we've been trapped in survival mode for too long?   Stacey Morgan: (51:23 - 56:05) This is a great question because I think all of us have felt this definitely in the pandemic. You know this part in your life where everything in the world feels very chaotic and so you try to regain some control in your own life by maybe regimenting your kids a little more, cleaning your house a little more, you know, controlling things at work or whatever your environment is. And without really realizing it you become this just like survival mode like your day just becomes about making things easier for yourself, streamlining things, making things just go go go. And you wake up one day and you were like, “I'm exhausted. Like why am I so tired? Why am I why do I have like no joy? Why do I just feel unhappy?” And you realize that you have not done anything other than just be like surviving and cleaning and doing work or whatever it is like you have just been doing the basics with no fun whatsoever.   So I have been there I hit that a bunch of times in the pandemic, but I certainly hit it when Drew was in space because it's really hard being a single parent and managing all of the emotional burdens and the logistics of it. And I realized that I was cleaning a lot I was kind of getting a little bit more trigger angry with kids or people who you know were making me upset because when you're in survival mode it's all about just like “Get out of my way let me do what I want to do,” it's about getting things done quickly and other people become an annoyance instead of a joy in your life.   So it's all about going back to something that that fills you up and it can be something really frivolous it can be something like it's very it's 100% unique to you and so I can't tell you what that thing is but I would say the first step in kind of getting yourself out of survival mode and kind of getting back to your your whole self is asking yourself the question like, “What do I enjoy?” Not for its educational value, not for its good cardio exercise or and not what your kids enjoy, not what is Instagram worthy, or anything like in your soul what fills you up? Is it reading? Is it watching movies? Is it riding bikes? Is it roller skating? Is it you know eating Mexican food? Like what is it that you enjoy doing that when you do it you just feel like more of yourself?   And then just go do it tomorrow. Like it's gonna take prioritizing time probably some money but that is as much of a part of who you are how God created you. He didn't make you this like worker bot or like just a mom or just a wife or just a daughter or a sister like He made you a whole person and a huge part of who you are are these things that you enjoy. And you cannot continue to pour into other people or work or your community if you are never getting filled up yourself. You will just dry out, you will be burnt out, you'll be unhappy and you'll actually be worse in all these other areas where you were trying to work hard because you're just gonna be like a shell of yourself.   So, for me it was prioritizing time with friends. It was... I got this crazy flyer on my front door for roller skating lessons and I had this fantasy of being a really good roller skater that stemmed from like when I was eight and so I signed my girls and I up for roller skating lessons which was hilarious and very humbling but it was just silly. It took time, we had to prioritize the time on every Saturday it took money, but it was just fun. It had no educational value my kids will look back on it and be like, “What was that all about? I don't even know.” But it was great because even in the midst of a stressful season like that was a very stressful season, undeniable, but as part of that narrative it will not only be like, “Yeah it was really tough when my dad was away and you know my mom had to like single-parent us but that was also the season where my mom took us to roller skating lessons. Isn't that weird? That was so weird.” And we'll laugh about it.   And so, it's just about finding something that you want to do and then just unapologetically spend the money, spend the time, and invite a friend to do it with you again. Doing something with a friend is always more fun than doing something alone. Don't feel like you have to justify it or explain it to everyone you don't need to take pictures to post online you don't need to tell it just just go do it and have a good time. It's amazing how when you do that suddenly like those dust bunnies or that email that had a weird tone that you got don't annoy you as much as they used to because your kind of like finding your whole self again.   Laura Dugger: (56:05 - 56:27) That's helpful to remember to live life to the fullest and be ready for the next adventure that life's gonna throw at us. Yeah. And just as a bonus can we just ask what are some of the most common questions that you and Drew answer about space?   Stacey Morgan: (56:27 - 57:25) That's a good question. A lot of like personal hygiene questions about teeth brushing toilets how do you know take showers or whatever and of course the answer is they don't take showers. But and then of course a lot of people want to know, “Hey I've always been interested in becoming an astronaut how does somebody do that?”   And there are so many resources online people you know I say, “Look go online read all about it. There's amazing videos NASA puts out an incredible amount of resources that you can read up on but at the end of the day do what you are most passionate about because the likelihood that you, or your nephew, or your cousin, or your co-worker, your son, or, whoever it is that you know is convinced they want to be an astronaut the likelihood of them being an astronaut is very low. So you should do what just fills you up do a career and a life that you are passionate about and if God calls you to that path those doors will open but if He doesn't you'll still be living a life fully within God's purpose for you.”   Laura Dugger: (57:25 - 57:39) And Stacey you're such an incredible communicator both in this interview time together but also really enjoyed your book. And so, if people want to follow you to hear what you're up to next, where would you direct them online?   Stacey Morgan: (57:39 - 58:41) Sure well they can go to my website StaceyMorgan2000. That's like Stacey Morgan two zero zero zero dot com. That has my blog that has links to a different podcast like this that I've been on and they can check that out. They can find me on Instagram same handle StaceyMorgan2000.   And you know if people want to reach out, I love when people have been sending me messages lately after they've read the book it's been so awesome. You know I tell people like I certainly didn't write this book for the money I'm actually donating all my book proceeds to charities that support military families. So, I've been joking like, “Hey read the book if you don't like it the worst that happened is you donated to a military charity. If you do like it buy ten copies and give one to all your friends. But if you do like it I love it when people send me messages and just tell me kind of like what resonated and how it spoke to them.” That's just been one of the I would say the coolest aspect of completing this project was kind of putting it out there and then getting to see how God uses it in people's lives.   Laura Dugger: (58:41 - 59:02) There were so many things that resonated but off the top of my head if anybody has a copy of the book they'll have to turn to the part about baloney on sale friends. And Stacey you may know that we're called The Savvy Sauce because savvy is synonymous with practical knowledge and so as my final question for you today what is your savvy sauce?   Stacey Morgan: (59:02 - 1:01:08) Well I'll piggyback off your baloney is on sale friends' reference and that would be: pick up the phone and text your friend. We didn't need a study to show us this because I think most of us have just known this in our soul but there is an endemic of loneliness in the world right now as you know we've got all these ways to connect and yet people feel more disconnected. They feel more lonely especially women and what I learned through my own kind of relationship struggles over the years is that everyone's waiting for someone else to go first. That you in that moment you feel like you're the only person who's feeling lonely and alone and that everybody else is in these friend circles and you're just somehow on the outside. But the reality is that pretty much everybody feels the same way you do and everybody's sitting at home wishing someone would just text them and invite them to coffee.   So that's my practical tip is don't wait, go first be the bold friend or even acquaintance like it doesn't have to be someone that you are super besties with. But those baloney is on sale friends like I said you have to read the book and understand that that is like a special category of friendship that's the kind of friendship that our soul longs for but those things don't appear or like pop out of the ground. That kind of friend doesn't just show up it's developed over time it's invested in and cared for and loved and it starts with literally a text to go get coffee. That's how every great friendship story begins. So, if that's you, if you feel like yeah I don't have this close friend who I can do something with I'm lonely. Okay take that first step be the one who picks up the phone send that text message to the woman from church, or the woman from the gym, or that friend you haven't talked to in a while and just invite them over for coffee. Nothing fancy nothing crazy no agenda just come over for a couple hours for coffee. Every single person I know who does this no one ever regrets inviting a friend over for coffee. That's the first step that we can all take into just feeling more connected and having those kind of friends that we want.   Laura Dugger: (1:01:08 - 1:01:31) Love it. Well Stacy your book definitely changed my perspective on risk and I was so hooked on all the stories that you shared so I believe that your book is truly a gift to anyone who chooses to read it and your faith is very inspiring so thank you for sharing your journey with us and thank you for being my guest.   Stacey Morgan: (1:01:31 – 1:01:33) Well, thank you it's been great.   Laura Dugger: (1:01:33 – 1:05:16) One more thing before you go, have you heard the term gospel before? It simply means good news. And I want to share the best news with you, but it starts with the bad news.   Every single one of us were born sinners, but Christ desires to rescue us from our sin, which is something we cannot do for ourselves. This means there's absolutely no chance we can make it

Goof is op een radeloze queeste langs godvergeten Spaanse Aeropuortos. Vaak interessant genoeg voorzien van belendende activiteit in de vorm van tweedehands-auto-handelaren, schietclubs & dubieuze horeca. Met baanlengten van 300 tot 9000 meter. Respectievelijk aangelegd voor Oekraïense Aeroprakts en/of Amerikaanse Space Shuttles. Maar belangrijker: de Drone-Dreiging! In Nederland! Wat kunnen we doen? Hadden we dit-of-dat? En wat nu? Heel ander verhaal: ‘Tenerife'. De gevolgen daarvan voor de leerling-piloot…de beruchte Multicrew Cursus. Leren om zinvol om te gaan met collega's, superieuren en/of ondergeschikten. Blijft actueel, zo blijkt bij vrijwel elk incident in de Grote Luchtvaart. By the way: dat vreselijke filmpje van de MD-11 die een motor verliest op Louisville Muhammad Ali International Airport. Echt of AI? En doet dat er toe? Eigenlijk? En lijkt dat niet verdomd veel op de Bijlmerramp? Dan: Rotax-diefstal? Wie is de dief, en waarom? En komen die sportvliegtuig-motortjes weer ongevraagd retour, ingebouwd in drones? Richting Kiev? Of richting Volkel? Wie zal het zeggen? Juist: Goof en Goot!

Houston, we have a podcast. Today, Apollo 13 author Jeffrey Kluger drops in to talk about the Apollo missions, what really made it on the film, and his new book, Gemini: Stepping Stone to the Moon, the Untold Story.About our guest:Jeffrey Kluger, editor at large, oversees TIME's science and technology reporting. He has written or co-written more than 40 cover stories for the magazine and regularly contributes articles and commentary on science, behavior and health. Kluger is the co-author, with astronaut Jim Lovell, of Lost Moon: The Perilous Voyage of Apollo 13, which was the basis of the Apollo 13 movie released in 1995. He is the sole author of seven other books, including The Sibling Effect, published in 2011, and two novels for young adults. Other books include Splendid Solution, published in 2006, which tells the story of Jonas Salk and the polio vaccine; and the 2008 Hyperion release Simplexity: Why Simple Things Become Complex (and Why Complex Things Can Be Made Simple). Before joining TIME, Kluger was a staff writer for Discover magazine, where he wrote the "Light Elements" humor column, and he was also an editor for the New York TimesBusiness World Magazine, Family Circle and Science Digest.Kluger, who is also an attorney, has taught science journalism at New York University.

Dragon Spacecraft Development and Reusability Focus. Eric Berger explains that SpaceX needed NASA contracts to fund its Mars ambition. NASA provided critical funding in 2006 and 2009 for the Dragon spacecraft to deliver cargo to the International Space Station, replacing retiring vehicles like the Space Shuttle. Dragon was designed for recoverability and reuse, incorporating propulsion into the capsule itself, which increased complexity. Under pressure from Musk's impatience, SpaceX combined two critical test missions, C2 and C3, in 2012, ultimately succeeding due to a brave decision by a NASA flight director to allow on-the-spot software changes. Guest: Eric Berger.

Crew Dragon and Commercial Human Spaceflight. Eric Berger discusses NASA's Commercial Crew Program, initiated after the Space Shuttle retired. Boeing's entry legitimized the program, securing crucial congressional funding for competitors like SpaceX. SpaceX adapted the Dragon design for crew, involving extensive parachute testing by the "Shoot Show" team in the desert and ultimately agreeing to water landings for astronaut safety. Crew Dragon launched atop the Falcon 9 Block 5, the modern rocket iteration optimized for rapid reuse, emphasizing that reusability remained the central focus, even for human spaceflight. Guest: Eric Berger.

This is Mark and Rita's first-ever podcast interview! The Schrocks are fellow Christians and engineer specialists at NASA's Mission Control in Houston, Texas and share with us what working at Mission Control is like. We talk about everything from landing on the moon, to Space Shuttle missions and even what they think of aliens! And of course, we talk about how we believe it all points to the glory of God. Human space exploration is good, but it isn't safe. Mark is the chief design engineer behind the Space Shuttle's Rendezvous Pitch Maneuver which was first performed on STS-114, the first shuttle mission after the tragic loss of Columbia in February of 2003. Twenty-one shuttle missions performed Mark's RPM. Discovery: STS-114, STS-121, STS-116, STS-120, STS-124, STS-119, STS-128, STS-131, STS-133 Atlantis: STS-115, STS-117, STS-122, STS-129, STS-132, STS-135 Endeavor: STS-118, STS-123, STS-126,  STS-127, STS-130, STS-134. Dan's full interview with Charlie Duke. Sound clips from Mission Control: NASA/Johnson Space Center. Reading of Psalm 19 at the beginning is Apollo 16 astronaut and CAPCOM of Apollo 11 Charlie Duke. Thumbnail image: Mark and Rita Schrock. If you zoom in, you can find Rita standing center in a black shirt and khakis. Mark is standing directly left, to Rita's right. Astronauts at the International Space Station took the autographed picture of the Mission Control Visiting Vehicle Officer group to space and hung it on a window with Earth hanging silently in the background. Podbean enables our podcast to be on Apple Podcasts and other major podcast platforms.  To support Good Heavens! on Podbean as a patron, you can use the Podbean app, or go to https://patron.podbean.com/goodheavens.  This goes to Wayne Spencer. If you would like to give to the ministry of Watchman Fellowship or to Daniel Ray, you can donate at https://www.watchman.org/daniel. Donations to Watchman are tax deductible.

Hosted by Andy Poniros. Info: Author, fighter pilot, test pilot, & veteran of 5 Space Shuttle missions, Captain Robert "Hoot" Gibson discusses his books, as well as his fighter pilot experiences in the Vietnam war, & his Space Shuttle missions... Including piloting the 1st untethered astronaut spacewalk, mission STS-41B & his perilous top secret mission STS-27R.   Intro Music: "A Moment in Space History", Andy Poniros Outro Music: "Funk 2001", Larry Benigno Organization: Cosmic Perspective Radio   We've added a new way to donate to 365 Days of Astronomy to support editing, hosting, and production costs.  Just visit: https://www.patreon.com/365DaysOfAstronomy and donate as much as you can! Share the podcast with your friends and send the Patreon link to them too!  Every bit helps! Thank you! ------------------------------------ Do go visit http://www.redbubble.com/people/CosmoQuestX/shop for cool Astronomy Cast and CosmoQuest t-shirts, coffee mugs and other awesomeness! http://cosmoquest.org/Donate This show is made possible through your donations.  Thank you! (Haven't donated? It's not too late! Just click!) ------------------------------------ The 365 Days of Astronomy Podcast is produced by the Planetary Science Institute. http://www.psi.edu Visit us on the web at 365DaysOfAstronomy.org or email us at info@365DaysOfAstronomy.org.

UFOs Disable Missiles in Silos - Robert Salas graduated from the U.S. Air Force Academy and spent seven years on active duty from 1964 to 1971. From 1971 to 73 he worked for Martin-Marietta Aerospace and Rockwell International on Space Shuttle design proposals. From 1973 until his retirement in 1995 he worked for the Federal Aviation Administration. While an officer in the Air Force, he held positions as a weapons controller, drone pilot, missile launch officer, as well as and engineer on the Titan III missile program. On the mornings of March 16, 1967, and March 24, 1967 --- 10 nuclear missiles had become simultaneously non-operational at two different launch facilities immediately after guards reported UFOs hovering above the facilities. Robert wrote the book Faded Giant with co-author James Klotz which details his UFO incident while stationed at Malmstrom AFB, Montana. He is an international consultant for the National Aviation Reporting Center on Anomalous Phenomena of the United States of North America (NARCAP), he is an international correspondent of the Brazilian UFO magazine and director of the "Peruvian Association of Ufology" (APU) founded in 2012 which officially works for the declassification of the Peruvian government secret files of ufology.Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-x-zone-radio-tv-show--1078348/support.Please note that all XZBN radio and/or television shows are Copyright © REL-MAR McConnell Meda Company, Niagara, Ontario, Canada – www.rel-mar.com. For more Episodes of this show and all shows produced, broadcasted and syndicated from REL-MAR McConell Media Company and The 'X' Zone Broadcast Network and the 'X' Zone TV Channell, visit www.xzbn.net. For programming, distribution, and syndication inquiries, email programming@xzbn.net.We are proud to announce the we have launched TWATNews.com, launched in August 2025.TWATNews.com is an independent online news platform dedicated to uncovering the truth about Donald Trump and his ongoing influence in politics, business, and society. Unlike mainstream outlets that often sanitize, soften, or ignore stories that challenge Trump and his allies, TWATNews digs deeper to deliver hard-hitting articles, investigative features, and sharp commentary that mainstream media won't touch.These are stories and articles that you will not read anywhere else.Our mission is simple: to expose corruption, lies, and authoritarian tendencies while giving voice to the perspectives and evidence that are often marginalized or buried by corporate-controlled media

Clay talks with veteran NASA astronaut Tom Jones, who flew four Space Shuttle missions for a total of 53 days, 49 minutes in space. Clay outlined a list of issues related to the Lewis and Clark Expedition of 1804-06, including propulsion, navigation, food, waste management, record-keeping, and re-entry, and explained how Lewis and Clark addressed these dynamics. Then, Tom Jones explained how these concepts are applied in space. Topics included religious activity in space, romance in space, mutiny in space, the wonder of going where no man has gone before, recruitment, training, and re-entry. Tom Jones is the author of half a dozen books, including the acclaimed Skywalking: An Astronaut's Memoir. He believes we owe it to the four remaining lunar surface astronauts that we land again on the moon before the last of them dies. This episode was recorded on September 30, 2025.

Brief Summary: The program focused on a discussion with Roger Launius, a retired NASA historian, about his book covering NASA's history from its origins as NACA to the present day. The conversation explored NASA's relationship with commercial space industry, historical organizational changes, and the challenges of accessing NASA's historical records and archives. The discussion also covered various technical and political aspects of space exploration, including decision-making processes, military roles in space, and the evolution of NASA's approach to partnerships and innovation. Roger shared his thoughts on the future of space exploration, expressing uncertainty about the timeline for lunar missions and human presence on Mars. Space Show team participants included myself, John Jossy, Bill Gowan, Marshall Martin, John Hunt, Dr. Ajay Kothari, and Phil Swan.Detailed Summary: As host I welcomed Dr. Roger Launius back to the Space Show to discuss his new book, “From NACA to NASA to Now.” Launius explained that the book, published in 2025, provides a concise history of NASA from its origins as the National Advisory Committee for Aeronautics (NACA) in 1915 to its transformation into NASA in 1958. He highlighted the ongoing role of NASA's legacy research centers in aeronautical research today. Launius also discussed the evolution of the aerospace industry, emphasizing that the distinction between “old space” and “new space” is complex and not clearly defined. He noted that private sector activities in space have a long history, dating back to the 1950s, and that NASA's approach to commercial partnerships has evolved over time, particularly with the creation of separate entities to handle launch services in the 1990s.Bill Gowan and Roger discussed the evolution of NASA's relationship with commercial space, noting that while NASA has always relied on commercial industry for spacecraft design and construction, there has been a shift towards non-cost-plus contracts. Roger highlighted that while NASA innovations have contributed to commercial space advancements, the designs are not entirely independent of NASA's influence. They also explored the partisan nature of NASA's early years, with Roger explaining that the Apollo program faced political challenges from both the left and right, and was subject to budget cuts after its initial success.The discussion focused on the impact of the government shutdown on NASA's historical resources and archives. Roger explained that while NASA facilities are currently closed, their websites and online historical resources remain accessible, though not updated. He detailed the complex federal records system, noting that most NASA records are stored at the National Archives in Washington, D.C., and other federal record centers across the country, with access often delayed by years, especially for recent or classified materials. Marshall inquired about accessing Elon Musk's communications with NASA and the President, to which Roger clarified that such recent records would not be available in the National Archives yet and suggested using interviews and publicly released documents for journalistic research on recent events.Roger explained that separating historical facts from salesmanship in space exploration is a challenging task due to the varied motivations behind statements. He emphasized the importance of understanding these motivations and balancing contradictory perspectives. David inquired about the feasibility of modernizing old Apollo lunar lander plans, to which Roger confirmed that NASA possesses extensive technical drawings and records of past hardware in federal records centers and has historically allowed access for analysis. Roger also described the difficult transition from NACA to NASA in 1958, highlighting resistance from the military, particularly over the transfer of the von Braun team and the Army Ballistic Missile Agency's resources, which was a prolonged and contentious process.Our discussion addressed historical NASA consolidations and organizational changes, with Roger explaining that efforts to close or merge NASA facilities have been ongoing since the 1960s, though political opposition from congressional delegations has typically prevented closures. The conversation also covered the history of the National Space Council, which was established in 1958 but became less active after the 1960s, particularly under Nixon, before being revived by the Trump administration. John Hunt raised questions about military roles in space, noting how the Army developed its own ballistic missile programs while the Air Force maintained separate capabilities, highlighting ongoing challenges in service roles and missions.Roger explained that Space Council issues are now handled through the Office of Science and Technology Policy in the White House. He discussed the difficulty in finding detailed information about NASA's decision-making process for certain projects, such as the Mars Sample Return mission. Roger mentioned that some individuals, like George Lowe and Bob Siemens, kept detailed records of meetings and decisions, which are now available at Rensselaer and MIT respectively. David asked if there would be a “post-NASA era,” to which Roger responded that there is no known impetus for such a transition. The conversation also touched on the public and intellectual resistance to using Nazi engineers, like Wernher von Braun, in the early American space program, and the debate within the federal government about this issue.Roger discussed the history of supersonic flight, clarifying that Chuck Yeager did not demand a million dollars to fly the X1 and that Slick Chalmers flew multiple supersonic flights. He also addressed a controversy about whether the F-86 pilot beat Yeager's speed record, noting that the evidence was unreliable. Roger emphasized the importance of data-driven decision-making in engineering, using examples from the Challenger disaster and flight readiness reviews. Marshall inquired about decision-making processes, and Roger highlighted the need for comprehensive data and proper training in engineering education.The group discussed historical space program decisions, focusing on the Challenger launch and the X-30 National Aerospace Plane program. Roger explained that while data existed showing risks of cold-weather launches, the decision-making process was complex and the data wasn't presented clearly, leading to the catastrophic failure. The discussion also covered the X-30 program, which was announced by Reagan in the 1980s but ended in the early 90s due to technological challenges and cost concerns, though some research continued.Roger discussed the NACA's contributions to aeronautics, highlighting its approach to research and development. He explained how the NACA hired young engineers and provided them with advanced research tools, such as the variable density wind tunnel, which led to significant advancements in airframe and wing design. Roger also mentioned the NACA's involvement in rocket research during World War II, which eventually led to the establishment of NASA and the transition of key personnel to the new space agency.Roger discussed his friendship with Dr. John Anderson and shared details about a 2009 incident involving Mike Griffin and Laurie Garver at a launch party for John Logsdon's book. He explained that Mike Griffin expressed concerns about Laurie Garver's involvement in the Constellation program, emphasizing her need to step back from technical details. Roger also highlighted Laurie Garver's significant role in transitioning NASA to the commercial crew program, advocating for private sector involvement in space exploration. The conversation touched on the challenges NASA faced in the 1990s, including the cancellation of the X-33 program and the search for alternatives to the Space Shuttle.Concluding Summary: The meeting featured an interview with Roger, a retired NASA historian, who discussed his book on the history of NASA and its predecessor organizations. Roger shared his plans for future conferences and mentioned his current residence in Auburn, Alabama. The discussion also covered the availability of Roger's book for free download from NASA. The conversation ended with thanks to the show's sponsors and participants, and a reminder about an upcoming open lines session.Special thanks to our sponsors:Northrup Grumman, American Institute of Aeronautics and Astronautics, Helix Space in Luxembourg, Celestis Memorial Spaceflights, Astrox Corporation, Dr. Haym Benaroya of Rutgers University, The Space Settlement Progress Blog by John Jossy, The Atlantis Project, and Artless EntertainmentOur Toll Free Line for Live Broadcasts: 1-866-687-7223 (Not in service at this time)For real time program participation, email Dr. Space at: drspace@thespaceshow.com for instructions and access.The Space Show is a non-profit 501C3 through its parent, One Giant Leap Foundation, Inc. To donate via Pay Pal, use:To donate with Zelle, use the email address: david@onegiantleapfoundation.org.If you prefer donating with a check, please make the check payable to One Giant Leap Foundation and mail to:One Giant Leap Foundation, 11035 Lavender Hill Drive Ste. 160-306 Las Vegas, NV 89135Upcoming Programs:Tuesday, 11-11-25; 7 PM PDT, 10 PM EDT:Bob Zimmerman returns with space news and updates plus a look at space 2025. Get full access to The Space Show-One Giant Leap Foundation at doctorspace.substack.com/subscribe

Col. Eileen Collins, USAF Rtd., had a fantastic career before joining NASA. Her dream to go to space led her to become not only the first woman to pilot the Space Shuttle but also the first woman to command a space mission. In Spacewoman, a new documentary directed by Hannah Berryman, Eileen's career and its impact on her family are brought to light through a series of very open interviews, resulting in a truly superb documentary.Spacewoman Website: https://spacewoman.film/Spacewoman Trailer: https://youtu.be/YnhqHdxNsgk?si=ZlGDFRTkVKBV8SVf-----------------------------------------------------✈️Get the latest from the Pima Air and Space Museum by following their socials!Website: https://pimaair.org/https://www.facebook.com/PimaAirAndSpacehttps://www.instagram.com/pimaairhttps://x.com/pimaairhttps://www.youtube.com/c/PimaAirSpaceMuseumCheck out the Tucson Military Vehicle Museum here: https://www.tucsonmilitaryvehicle.org/

Sue Nelson and Richard Hollingham get up-close with a Moon lander taking shape at Astrobotic in Pittsburgh. The first woman to pilot and command the Space Shuttle, Eileen Collins, discusses a new film about her life: Space Woman. Plus, two new space quilts, complete with UFOs, at the Royal Astronomical Society... Like this podcast? Please help us by supporting the Naked Scientists

Sue Nelson and Richard Hollingham get up-close with a Moon lander taking shape at Astrobotic in Pittsburgh. The first woman to pilot and command the Space Shuttle, Eileen Collins, discusses a new film about her life: Space Woman. Plus, two new space quilts, complete with UFOs, at the Royal Astronomical Society... Like this podcast? Please help us by supporting the Naked Scientists

The path to progressing as a leader isn't always linear. SUMMARY Col. (Ret.) Mike Ott shows how a childhood dream can evolve into a lifetime of impact—from commanding in uniform to leading innovation in healthcare and national defense. Hear more on Long Blue Leadership. Listen now!   SHARE THIS PODCAST LINKEDIN  |  FACEBOOK   MIKE'S LEADERSHIP TAKEAWAYS A leader worth his or her salt should be comfortable not being the smartest person in the room. Striving for a lack of hubris is essential in leadership. Setting a clear vision is a fundamental leadership skill. Moving people without authority is crucial for effective leadership. Resource management is key to achieving organizational goals. Acknowledging what you don't know is a strength in leadership. Effective leaders focus on guiding their teams rather than asserting dominance. Leadership is about influencing and inspiring others. A successful mission requires collaboration and shared vision. True leadership is about empowering others to succeed.   CHAPTERS 00:00: Early Inspiration 06:32: Academy Years 13:17: Military Career Transition 21:33: Financial Services Journey 31:29: MOBE and Healthcare Innovation 40:12: Defense Innovation Unit 48:42: Philanthropy and Community Impact 58:11: Personal Growth and Leadership Lessons   ABOUT MIKE OTT BIO Mike Ott is the Chief Executive Officer of MOBĒ, a U.S.-based company focused on whole-person health and care-management solutions. He became CEO in April 2022, taking the helm to lead the company through growth and operational excellence following a distinguished career in both the military and corporate sectors.  A graduate of the United States Air Force Academy, Mike served as a Colonel in the U.S. Air Force Reserves before shifting into financial services and healthcare leadership roles including private wealth management at U.S. Bank and executive positions with UnitedHealth Group/Optum. His leadership ethos emphasizes alignment, acceleration, and human potential, building cultures where teams can thrive and leveraging data-driven models to improve health outcomes.   CONNECT WITH MIKE LinkedIn MOBE CONNECT WITH THE LONG BLUE LEADERSHIP PODCAST NETWORK TEAM Send your feedback or nominate a guest: socialmedia@usafa.org Ted Robertson | Producer:  Ted.Robertson@USAFA.org    Ryan Hall | Director:  Ryan.Hall@USAFA.org  Bryan Grossman | Copy Editor:  Bryan.Grossman@USAFA.org Wyatt Hornsby | Executive Producer:  Wyatt.Hornsby@USAFA.org      ALL PAST LBL EPISODES  |  ALL LBLPN PRODUCTIONS AVAILABLE ON ALL MAJOR PODCAST PLATFORMS     OUR SPEAKERS Guest, Col. (Ret.) Mike Ott '85  |  Host, Lt. Col. (Ret.) Naviere Walkewicz '99   FULL TRANSCRIPT Naviere Walkewicz 0:00 A quick programming note before we begin this episode of Long Blue Leadership: This episode will be audio-only, so sit back and enjoy the listen. Welcome to Long Blue Leadership, the podcast where we share insights on leadership through the lives and experiences of Air Force Academy graduates. I'm Naviere Walkewicz, Class of '99. Today, on Long Blue Leadership, we welcome Col. (Ret.) Mike Ott, Class of 1985, a leader whose vision was sparked at just 9 years old during a family road trip past the Air Force Academy. That childhood dream carried him through a 24-year Air Force career, culminating in retirement as a colonel and into a life of leadership across business, innovation and philanthropy. Mike is the CEO of MOBE, a groundbreaking company that uses data analytics and a revolutionary pay-for-results model to improve health outcomes while reducing costs. He also serves as a senior adviser to the Defense Innovation Unit, supporting the secretary of defense in accelerating commercial innovation for national security. A member of the Forbes Councils, Mike shares his expertise with leaders around the world. A former Falcon Foundation trustee and longtime supporter of the Academy, Mike has given generously his time, talents and resources to strengthen the Long Blue Line. His story is one of innovation and service in uniform, in the marketplace and in his community. Mike, welcome to Long Blue Leadership. We're so glad to have you here.   Mike Ott 1:29 Naviere, thanks a ton. I'm glad to be here. Naviere Walkewicz 1:31 Yes, yes. Well, we're really excited. I mean, you're here for your 40th reunion.   Mike Ott 1:35 Yeah, it's crazy.   Naviere Walkewicz1:37 You came right in, and we're so pleased that you would join us here first for this podcast.   Mike Ott 1:39 Right on. Thanks for the time.   Naviere Walkewicz 1:41 Absolutely. Well, let's jump right in, because not many people can say at 9 years old they know what they want to do when they grew up, but you did. Mike Ott 1:48 Yeah. I guess some people can say it; might not be true, but for me, it's true, good or bad. And goodness gracious, right? Here for my 40th reunion, do the math team, and as a 9-year-old, that was 1972, And a lot was going on in the world in 1972 whether it was political unrest, Vietnam and all of that, and the Academy was in the thick of it. And so we had gone — It was our first significant family vacation. My father was a Chicago policeman. We drove in the 1968 Buick LaSabre, almost straight through. Stopped, stayed at a Holiday Inn, destination Colorado, simply, just because nobody had ever seen the mountains before. That was why. And we my parents, mom, mom and dad took myself. I have two younger sisters, Pikes Peak, Academy, Garden of the Gods, Royal Gorge. And I remember noon meal formation, and the bell going off. Guys at the time — we hadn't had women as cadets at that point in time — running out in their flight suits as I recall lining up ready to go. And for me, it was the energy, right, the sense of, “Wow, this is something important.” I didn't know exactly how important it was, but I knew it was important, and I could envision even at that age, there was they were doing good, Naviere Walkewicz 3:21 Wow. Nine years old, your family went on vacation, and it just struck you as this is important and something that I want to do. So what did that conversation look like after that experience that you had as a 9-year-old and kind of manifest this in yourself? How did that go with your parents? Mike Ott 3:36 Well, I didn't say too much about it, as I was in grammar school, but as high school hit, you know, I let my folks know what my plans were, and I had mom and dad — my mother's still alive, my father passed about a year ago. Very, very good, hard-working, ethical people, but hadn't gone to college, and we had been told, “Look, you know, you need to get an education.” They couldn't. I wish they had. They were both very, very, very bright, and so I knew college was a plan. I also knew there wasn't a lot of money to pay for it. So I'm certain that that helped bake in a few things. But as I got into high school, I set my sights. I went to public high school in Chicago, and I remember freshman year walking into my counselor's office, and said, “I want to go to the Air Force Academy,” and he kind of laughed.   Naviere Walkewicz 3:21 Really?   Mike Ott 3:22 Well, we had 700 kids in my class, and maybe 40% went on to college, right? And the bulk of them went to community college or a state school. I can count on one hand the number of folks that went to an academy or an Ivy League school or something of that. So it was it was around exposure. It had nothing to do with intelligence. It was exposure and just what these communities were accustomed to. A lot of folks went into the trades and pieces like that. So my counselor's reaction wasn't one of shock or surprise insofar as that's impossible. It was, “We haven't had a lot of people make that commitment this early on, and I'm glad to help.”   Naviere Walkewicz 5:18 Oh, I love that.   Mike Ott 5:19 Which is wonderful, and what I had known at the time, Mr. Needham...   Naviere Walkewicz 5:23 You Remember his name?   Mike Ott 5:24 Yeah, he was in the Navy Reserves. He was an officer, so he got the joke. He got the joke and helped me work through what classes to take, how to push myself. I didn't need too much guidance there. I determined, “Well, I've got to distinguish myself.” And I like to lean in. I like a headwind, and I don't mind a little bit of an uphill battle, because once you get up there, you feel great. I owe an awful lot to him. And, not the superintendent, but the principal of our school was a gentleman named Sam Ozaki, and Sam was Japanese American interned during World War II as a young man, got to of service age and volunteered and became a lieutenant in the Army and served in World War II in Europe, right, not in Asia. So he saw something in me. He too became an advocate. He too became someone that sought to endorse, support or otherwise guide me. Once I made that claim that I was going to go to the Academy. Naviere Walkewicz 6:30 Wow. So you mentioned something that really stuck with me. You said, you know, you didn't mind kind of putting yourself out there and doing the hard things, because you knew when you got to the top it was going to feel really great. Was that something you saw from your father? Was that something, there are key leaders in your life that emulated that? Or is that just something that you always had in yourself? Mike Ott 6:51 I would say there's certainly an environmental element to it — how I was raised, what I was exposed to, and then juxtaposition as to what I observed with other family members or other parts of the community where things didn't work out very well, right? And, you know, I put two and two together. y father demonstrated, throughout his entire career what it means to have a great work ethic. As did mom and, you know, big, tough Chicago cop for 37 years. But the other thing that I learned was kindness, and you wouldn't expect to learn that from the big, tough Chicago cop, but I think it was environment, observing what didn't occur very often and how hard work, if I apply myself, can create outcomes that are going to be more fulfilling for me. Naviere Walkewicz 7:48 Wow, you talked about kindness. How did you see kindness show up in your journey as a cadet at the Air Force Academy? Or did you? Mike Ott 7:58 Yeah, gosh, so I remember, started in June of 1981, OK, and still connected with many of the guys and women that with whom I went to basic training and all that. The first moment of kindness that I experienced that it was a mutual expression, but one where I recognized, “Wow, every one of us is new here. None of us has a real clue.” We might have some idea because we had somebody had a sibling or a mother that was in the military or father that went to the academy at the time, but none of us really knew, right? We were knuckleheads, right? Eighteen years old. Maybe there were a couple of prior-enlisted folks. I don't recall much of that, but I having gone to a public high school in Chicago, where we had a variety of different ethnicities. I learned how to just understand people for who they are, meet them for who they are, and respect every individual. That's how I was raised, and that's how I exhibited myself, I sought to conduct myself in high school. So I get to the Academy, and you're assigned, you know, the first couple three nights, the first few weeks before you go to Jacks Valley, you're assigned. It was all a alphabetical, and my roommate was an African American fellow named Kevin Nixon. All right, my God, Kevin Nixon, and this guy, he was built. I mean, he was rock solid, right? And he had that 1000-yard stare, right? Very intimidating. And I'm this, like, 6-foot-tall, 148-pound runner, like, holy dork, right? And I'm assigned — we're roommates, and he just had a very stoicism, or a stoic nature about him. And I remember, it was our second night at the Academy, maybe first night, I don't quite recall, and we're in bed, and it's an hour after lights out, and I hear him crying, and like, well, what do you do? Like, we're in this together. It was that moment, like we're both alone, but we're not right. He needs to know that he's not alone. So I walked around and went over his bed, and I said, “Hey, man, I miss my mom and dad too. Let's talk. And we both cried, right? And I'll tell you what, he and I were pals forever. It was really quite beautiful. And what didn't happen is he accepted my outreach, right? And he came from a very difficult environment, one where I'm certain there was far more racial strife than I had experienced in Chicago. He came from Norfolk, Virginia, and he came from — his father worked in the shipyards and really, really tough, tough, tough background. He deserved to be the Academy. He was a great guy, very bright, and so we became friends, and I tried to be kind. He accepted that kindness and reciprocated in ways where he created a pretty beautiful friendship. Naviere Walkewicz 7:48 Oh, my goodness. Thank you for sharing that story. And you got me in the feels a little bit, because I remember those nights, even you know me having family members that went through the Academy. There's just something about when you're in it yourself, and in that moment, it's raw.   Mike Ott 11:13 Raw is a good word. Naviere Walkewicz 11:15 Oh, thank you for that. So you're at the Academy and you end up doing 24 years. I don't mean to, like, mash all that into one sentence, but let's talk… Mike Ott 11:22 I didn't do very much. It was the same year repeated 24 times over. Like, not a very good learner, right? Not a very good learner. Naviere Walkewicz 11:30 Yeah, I was gonna ask, you know, in that journey, because, had you planned to do a career in the Air Force? Mike Ott 11:36 Well, I didn't know, right? I went in, eyes wide open, and my cumulative time in the Air Force is over 24 but it was only it was just shy of seven active duty, and then 22, 23, in the Reserves, right? I hadn't thought about the Reserves, but I had concluded, probably at the, oh, maybe three-year mark that I wanted to do other things. It had nothing to do with disdain, a sense of frustration or any indignation, having gone to the Academy, which I'm very, very proud of, and it meant an awful lot to who I am. But it was, “Wait, this is, this is my shot, and I'm going to go try other things.” I love ambiguity, I'm very curious. Have a growth mindset and have a perhaps paradoxical mix of being self-assured, but perhaps early on, a bit too, a bit too, what's the word I was thinking of? I wrote this down — a bit too measured, OK, in other words, risk taking. And there were a few instances where I realized, “Hey, man, dude, take some risk. What's the downside? And if it isn't you, who else?” So it was that mindset that helped me muscle through and determine that, coupled with the fact that the Air Force paid for me to go to graduate school, they had programs in Boston, and so I got an MBA, and I did that at night. I had a great commander who let me take classes during the day when I wasn't traveling. It was wonderful. It was there that I was exposed to elements of business and in financial services, which ultimately drew me into financial services when I separated from active duty. Naviere Walkewicz 13:17 Well, I love that, because first you talked about a commander that saw, “How can I help you be your best version of yourself?” And I think the other piece of financial service, because I had to dabble in that as well — the second word is service. And so you've never stopped serving in all the things that you've done. So you took that leap, that risk. Is that something that you felt developed while you're at the Academy, or it's just part of your ethos. Mike Ott 13:41 It developed. It matured. I learned how to apply it more meaningfully at the Academy after a couple, three moments, where I realized that I can talk a little bit about mentoring and then I can come back to that, but mentoring — I don't know, I don't recall having heard that term as a mechanism for helping someone develop. I'm sure we used it when I was a cadet at the Academy and out of the Academy, and having been gone through different programs and banking and different graduate programs, the term comes up an awful lot. You realize, wow, there's something there helping the next generation, but also the reciprocity of learning from that generation yourself. I didn't really understand the whole mentoring concept coming out of Chicago and getting here, and just thought things were very hierarchical, very, very command structure, and it was hit the standards or else. And that that's not a bad mindset, right? But it took me a little while to figure out that there's a goodness factor that comes with the values that we have at the Academy, and it's imbued in each one of you know, service excellence, all of those pieces. But for the most part, fellow cadets and airmen and women want to help others. I mean, it's in service. It's in our DNA. Man that blew right past me. I had no idea, and I remember at one point I was entering sophomore year, and I was asked to be a glider instructor. I'd done the soaring and jumping program over the summer, and like, “Hey, you know you're not too bad at glider. You want to be an instructor?” At the time, that was pretty big deal, yeah, glider instructors. Like, “Yeah, no, I'm not going to do that, you know? I've got to study. Like, look at my GPA.” That didn't really matter. “And I'm going to go up to Boulder and go chase women.” Like, I was going to meet women, right? So, like, but I didn't understand that, that that mechanism, that mentoring mechanism, isn't always bestowed upon a moment or a coupling of individuals. There are just good people out there that see goodness in others that want to help them through that. I had no clue, but that was a turning point for me.   Naviere Walkewicz 15:56 Because you said no.   Mike Ott 15:58 I said no, right? And it was like what, you know, a couple months later, I remember talking with somebody like, “Yep, swing and a miss,” right? But after that, it changed how I was going to apply this self-assuredness, not bravado, but willingness to try new things, but with a willingness to be less measured. Why not? Trust the system. Trust the environment that you're in, the environment that we're in, you were in, I was in, that we're representing right now, it is a trusted environment. I didn't know that. And there were a lot of environments when I was being raised, they weren't trusted environments. And so you have a sort of mental callous mindset in many ways, and that that vigilance, that sense of sentinel is a good protection piece, but it prevents, it prevents... It doesn't allow for the membrane to be permeated, right? And so that trust piece is a big deal. I broke through after that, and I figured it out, and it helped me, and it helped me connect a sense of self-assuredness to perhaps being less measured, more willing to take ambiguity. You can be self-assured but not have complete belief in yourself, OK? And it helped me believe in myself more. I still wish I'd have been glider instructor. What a knucklehead. My roommate wound up becoming one. Like, “You, son of a rat, you.”   Naviere Walkewicz 17:29 So tell me, when did the next opportunity come up where you said yes, and what did that look like in your journey? Mike Ott 17:36 I was a lieutenant. I was a lieutenant, and I was looking for a new role. I was stationed at Hanscom Field, and I was working at one program office, and I bumped — I was the athletic officer for the base with some other folks, and one of the colonels was running a different program, and he had gotten to know me and understand how I operated, what I did, and he said, “Hey, Ott, I want you to come over to my program.” And I didn't know what the program was, but I trusted him, and I did it blindly. I remember his name, Col. Holy Cross. And really good guy. And yeah, I got the tap on the shoulder. Didn't blink. Didn't blink. So that was just finishing up second lieutenant. Naviere Walkewicz 18:26 What a lesson. I mean, something that stuck with you as a cadet, and not that it manifested in regret, but you realized that you missed that opportunity to grow and experience and so when it came around again, what a different… So would you say that as you progress, then you know, because at this point you're a lieutenant, you know, you took on this new role, what did you learn about yourself? And then how did that translate to the decision to move from active duty to the Reserve and into… Mike Ott 18:56 You'll note what I didn't do when I left active duty was stay in the defense, acquisition, defense engineering space. I made a hard left turn…   Naviere Walkewicz 19:13 Intentionally.   Mike Ott 19:14 Intentionally. And went into financial services. And that is a hard left turn away from whether it's military DOD, military industrial complex, working for one of the primes, or something like that. And my mindset was, “If I'm not the guy in the military making the decision, setting strategy and policy…” Like I was an O-3. Like, what kind of policy am I setting? Right? But my point was, if I'm not going to, if I may, if I decided to not stay in the military, I wasn't going to do anything that was related to the military, right, like, “Let's go to green pastures. Set myself apart. Find ways to compete…” Not against other people. I don't think I need to beat the hell out of somebody. I just need to make myself better every day. And that's the competition that I just love, and I love it  it's greenfield unknown. And why not apply my skills in an area where they haven't been applied and I can learn? So as an active-duty person — to come back and answer your question — I had worked some great bosses, great bosses, and they would have career counseling discussions with me, and I was asked twice to go to SOS in-residence. I turned it down, you know, as I knew. And then the third time my boss came to me. He's like, “OK, what are you doing? Idiot. Like, what are you doing?” That was at Year 5. And I just said, “Hey, sir, I think I'm going to do something different.” Naviere Walkewicz 20:47 Didn't want to take the slot from somebody else.   Mike Ott 20:49 That's right. Right. And so then it was five months, six months later, where I put in my papers. I had to do a little more time because of the grad school thing, which is great. And his commander, this was a two-star that I knew as well, interviewed me and like, one final, like, “What are you doing?” He's like, “You could have gone so far in the Air Force.” And I looked at the general — he was a super-good dude. I said, “What makes you think I'm not going to do well outside of the Air Force?” And he smiled. He's like, “Go get it.” So we stayed in touch. Great guy. So it had nothing to do with lack of fulfillment or lack of satisfaction. It had more to do with newness, curiosity, a challenge in a different vein. Naviere Walkewicz 21:30 So let's walk into that vein. You entered into this green pasture. What was that experience like? Because you've just been in something so structured. And I mean, would you say it was just structured in a different way? Mike Ott 21:48 No, not structured. The industry… So, I separated, tried an engineering job for about eight months. Hated it. I was, I was development engineer at Ford Motor Company, great firm. Love the organization, bored stiff, right? Just not what I wanted to do, and that's where I just quit. Moved back to Chicago, where I'm from, and started networking and found a role with an investment bank, ABN AMRO, which is a large Dutch investment bank that had begun to establish itself in the United States. So their headquarters in Chicago and I talked fast enough where somebody took a bet on me and was brought into the investment banking arm where I was on the capital markets team and institutional equities. So think of capital markets, and think of taking companies public and distributing those shares to large institutions, pensions funds, mutual funds, family offices.   Naviere Walkewicz 22:48 So a lot of learning and excitement for you.   Mike Ott 22:51 Super fun. And so the industry is very structured. How capital is established, capital flows, very regulated. We've got the SEC, we've got the FDIC, a lot of complex regulations and compliance matters. That's very, very, very structured. But there was a free-wheelingness in the marketplace. And if you've seen Wolf of Wall Street and things like that, some of that stuff happened. Crazy! And I realized that with my attitude, sense of placing trust in people before I really knew them, figuring that, “OK, what's the downside? I get nipped in the fan once, once or twice. But if I can thrust trust on somebody and create a relationship where they're surprised that I've trusted them, it's probably going to build something reciprocal. So learn how to do that.” And as a young fellow on the desk, wound up being given more responsibility because I was able to apply some of the basic tenets of leadership that you learned and I learned at the Academy. And face it, many of the men and women that work on Wall Street or financial services simply haven't gone to the Academy. It's just, it's the nature of numbers — and don't have that experience. They have other experiences. They have great leadership experiences, but they don't have this. And you and I may take it for granted because we were just four years of just living through it. It oozed in every moment, every breath, every interaction, every dialog, it was there.But we didn't know it was being poured in, sprinkled across as being showered. We were being showered in it. But I learned how to apply that in the relationships that I built, knowing that the relationships that I built and the reputation that I built would be lasting and impactful and would be appropriate investments for the future endeavors, because there's always a future, right? So it wasn't… again, lot of compliance, lot of regulations, but just the personalities. You know, I did it for the challenge, right? I did it because I was curious. I did it because I wanted to see if I could succeed at it. There were other folks that did it simply because it was for the money. And many, some of them made it. They might have sold their soul to get there. Some didn't make it. Maybe it wasn't the right pursuit for them in the first place. And if I go back to mentoring, which we talked about a little bit, and I help young men and women, cadets or maybe even recent grads, my guidance to them is, don't chase the money, chase the environment, right? And chase the environment that allows you to find your flow and contribute to that environment. The money will come. But I saw it — I've seen it with grads. I've seen it with many of the folks that didn't make it in these roles in financial services, because I thought, “Hey, this is where the money is.” It might be. But you have to go back to the basis of all this. How are you complected? What are your values? Do they align with the environment that you're in? And can you flow in a way where your strengths are going to allow success to happen and not sell your soul? Naviere Walkewicz 26:26 Yeah, you said two things that really stood out to me in that —the first one was, you know, trusting, just starting from a place of trust and respect, because the opportunity to build a relationship faster, and also there's that potential for future something. And then the second thing is the environment and making sure it aligns with your values. Is that how you got to MOBE? Mike Ott 26:50 Yeah, I would say how I got to MOBE, that certainly was a factor. Good question.   Naviere Walkewicz 26:57 The environment, I feel, is very much aligned Mike Ott 27:00 Very much so and then… But there's an element of reputation and relationship that allowed me to get there. So now I'm lucky to be a part of this firm. We're 250 people. We will do $50 million of revenue. We're growing nicely. I've been in health care for four years. Now, we are we're more than just healthcare. I mean, it's deep data. We can get into some of that later, but I had this financial services background. I was drawn to MOBE, but I had established a set of relationships with people at different investment banks, with other families that had successfully built businesses and just had relationships. And I was asked to come on to the board because MOBE, at the time, great capabilities, but struggled with leadership during COVID. Lot of companies did. It's not an indictment as to the prior CEO, but he and the team struggled to get through COVID. So initially I was approached to come on to the board, and that was through the founders of the firm who had known me for 20 years and knew my reputation, because I'd done different things at the investment bank, I'd run businesses at US Bank, which is a large commercial bank within the country, and they needed someone that… They cared very little about health care experience, which is good for me, and it was more around a sense of leadership. They knew my values. They trusted me. So initially I was asked to come onto the board, and that evolved into, “No, let's just do a whole reset and bring you on as the CEO.” Well, let's go back to like, what makes me tick. I love ambiguity. I love a challenge. And this has been a bit of a turnaround in that great capabilities, but lost its way in COVID, because leadership lost its way. So there's a lot of resetting that needed to occur. Corpus of the firm, great technology, great capabilities, but business model adaptation, go to market mechanisms and, frankly, environment. Environment. But I was drawn to the environment because of the people that had founded the organization. The firm was incubated within a large pharmaceutical firm. This firm called Upsher-Smith, was a Minnesota firm, the largest private and generic pharmaceutical company in the country, and sold for an awful lot of money, had been built by this family, sold in 2017 and the assets that are MOBE, mostly data, claims, analysis capabilities stayed separate, and so they incubated that, had a little bit of a data sandbox, and then it matriculated to, “Hey, we've got a real business here.” But that family has a reputation, and the individuals that founded it, and then ultimately found MOBE have a reputation. So I was very comfortable with the ambiguity of maybe not knowing health care as much as the next guy or gal, but the environment I was going into was one where I knew this family and these investors lived to high ethical standards, and there's many stories as to how I know that, but I knew that, and that gave me a ton of comfort. And then it was, “We trust you make it happen. So I got lucky. Naviere Walkewicz 30:33 Well, you're, I think, just the way that you're wired and the fact that you come from a place of trust, obviously, you know, OK, I don't have the, you know, like the medical background, but there are a lot of experts here that I'm going to trust to bring that expertise to me. And I'm going to help create an environment that they can really thrive in. Mike Ott 30:47 I'm certain many of our fellow alum have been in this experience, had these experiences where a leader worth his or her salt should be comfortable not being the smartest gal or guy in the room. In fact, you should strive for that to be the case and have a sense of lack of hubris and proudly acknowledge what you don't know. But what I do know is how to set vision. What I do know is how to move people without authority. What I do know is how to resource. And that's what you do if you want to move a mission, whether it's in the military, small firm like us that's getting bigger, or, you know, a big organization. You can't know it all. Naviere Walkewicz 31:30 So something you just mentioned that I think a lot of our listeners would really like, would love a little bit to peel us back a little bit. You said, “I know how to set a vision. I know how to…” I think it was move…   Mike Ott 31:45 Move people without authority and prioritize.   Naviere Walkewicz 31:47 But can we talk a little bit about that? Because I think that is really a challenge that some of our you know younger leaders, or those early in their leadership roles struggle with. Maybe, can you talk a little bit about that? Mike Ott 32:01 For sure, I had some — again, I tried to do my best to apply all the moments I had at the Academy and the long list of just like, “What were you thinking?” But the kindness piece comes through and… Think as a civilian outside looking in. They look at the military. It's very, very, very structured, OK, but the best leaders the men and women for whom you and I have served underneath or supported, never once barked an order, OK? They expressed intent, right? And you and I and all the other men and women in uniform, if we were paying attention, right, sought to execute the mission and satisfaction of that intent and make our bosses' bosses' jobs easier. That's really simple. And many outsiders looking in, we get back to just leadership that are civilians. They think, “Oh my gosh, these men and women that are in the military, they just can't assimilate. They can't make it in the civilian world.” And they think, because we come from this very, very hierarchical organization, yes, it is very hierarchical — that's a command structure that's necessary for mission execution — but the human part, right? I think military men and women leaders are among the best leaders, because guess what? We're motivating men and women — maybe they get a pat on the back. You didn't get a ribbon, right? Nobody's getting a year-end bonus, nobody's getting a spot bonus, nobody's getting equity in the Air Force, and it's gonna go public, right? It's just not that. So the best men and women that I for whom I've worked with have been those that have been able to get me to buy in and move and step up, and want to demonstrate my skills in coordination with others, cross functionally in the organization to get stuff done. And I think if there's anything we can remind emerging graduates, you know, out of the Academy, is: Don't rely on rank ever. Don't rely on rank. I had a moment: I was a dorky second lieutenant engineer, and we were launching a new system. It was a joint system for Marines, Navy and Air Force, and I had to go from Boston to Langley quite often because it was a TAC-related system, Tactical Air Force-related system. And the I was the program manager, multi-million dollar program for an interesting radio concept. And we were putting it into F-15s, so in some ground-based situations. And there was this E-8, crusty E-8, smoked, Vietnam, all these things, and he was a comms dude, and one of the systems was glitching. It just wasn't working, right? And we were getting ready to take this thing over somewhere overseas. And he pulls alongside me, and it's rather insubordinate, but it was a test, right? He's looking at me, Academy guy, you know, second lieutenant. He was a master sergeant, and he's like, “Well, son, what are we going to do now?” In other words, like, “We're in a pickle. What are we going to do now?” But calling me son. Yeah, it's not appropriate, right? If I'd have been hierarchical and I'd relied on rank, I probably would have been justified to let him have it. Like, that's playing short ball, right? I just thought for a second, and I just put my arm around him. I said, “Gee, Dad, I was hoping you're gonna help me.” And mother rat, we figured it out, and after that, he was eating out of my hand. So it was a test, right? Don't be afraid to be tested but don't take the bait. Naviere Walkewicz 35:46 So many good just lessons in each of these examples. Can you share a time at MOBE when you've seen someone that has been on your team that has demonstrated that because of the environment you've created? Mike Ott 35:57 For sure. So I've been running the firm now for about three and a half years. Again, have adapted and enhanced our capabilities, changed the business model a bit, yet functioning in our approach to the marketplace remains the same. We help people get better, and we get paid based on the less spend they have in the system. Part of some of our principles at MOBE are pretty simple, like, eat, sleep, move, smile, all right. And then be thoughtful with your medication. We think that medicine is an aid, not a cure. Your body's self-healing and your mind controls your body.   Naviere Walkewicz 36:32 Eat, sleep, move, smile. Love that.   Mike Ott 36:35 So what's happening with MOBE, and what I've seen is the same is true with how I've altered our leadership team. I've got some amazing leaders — very, very, very accomplished. But there are some new leaders because others just didn't fit in. There wasn't the sense of communal trust that I expected. There was too much, know-it-all'ing going on, right? And I just won't have that. So the easiest way to diffuse that isn't about changing head count, but it's around exhibiting vulnerability in front of all these folks and saying, “Look, I don't know that, but my lead pharmacist here, my lead clinician here, helped me get through those things.” But I do have one leader right, who is our head of vice president of HR, a woman who grew up on a farm in southern Minnesota, who has come to myself and our president and shared that she feels liberated at MOBE because, though this firm is larger than one that she served as a director of HR, previously, she's never had to look — check her six, look right, look left and seek alignment to ensure she's harmonizing with people. Naviere Walkewicz 37:49 Can you imagine being in an environment like that? Mike Ott 38:51 It's terrible, it's toxic, and it's wrong. Leaders, within the organization, I think you're judged more by what you don't do and the actions that you don't take. You can establish trust, and you will fortify that trust when you share with the team as best you can, so long as it's nothing inappropriate, where you made a mistake, where we went wrong. What did we learn from that? Where are we going to pivot? How we're going to apply that learning to make it better, as opposed to finding blame, pointing the finger or not even acknowledging? That happens all the time, and that toxicity erodes. And regretfully, my VP of HR in prior roles experienced that, and I don't have time. Good teams shouldn't have time to rehearse the basic values of the firm. We don't have time the speed of business is like this [snaps]. So if I can build the team of men and women that trust one another, can stay in their lanes, but also recognize that they're responsible for helping run the business, and look over at the other lanes and help their fellow leaders make adjustments without the indictful comment or without sort of belittling or shaming. That's what good teams, do. You, and I did that in the Air Force, but it is not as common as you would think. Naviere Walkewicz 39:11 20 we've been talking about MOBE, and you know, the environment you're creating there, and just the way that you're working through innovation. Let's talk a little bit how you're involved with DIU, the Defense Innovation Unit. Mike Ott 39:21 Again, it's reputation in relationships. And it was probably 2010, I get a call from a fellow grad, '87 grad who was living in the Beltway, still in uniform. He was an O-5 I was an O-5. Just doing the Academy liaison work, helping good young men and women that wanted to go to the Academy get in. And that was super satisfying, thought that would be the end of my Reserve career and super fun. And this is right when the first Obama administration came in, and one of his edicts and his admin edicts was, we've got to find ways to embrace industry more, right? We can't rely on the primes, just the primes. So those were just some seeds, and along with a couple other grads, created what is now called Joint Reserve Directorate, which was spawned DIUX, which was DIU Experimental, is spawned from. So I was the owner for JRD, and DIUX as a reserve officer. And that's how we all made colonel is we were working for the chief technology officer of the Defense Department, the Hon. Zach Lemnios, wonderful fellow. Civilian, didn't have much military experience, but boy, the guy knew tech — semiconductors and areas like that. But this was the beginning of the United States recognizing that our R&D output, OK, in the aggregate, as a fund, as a percentage of GDP, whether it's coming out of the commercial marketplace or the military DoD complex, needs to be harnessed against the big fight that we have with China. We can see, you know, we've known about that for 30 years. So this is back 14 years ago. And the idea was, let's bring in men and women — there was a woman in our group too that started this area — and was like, “How do we create essential boundary span, boundary spanners, or dual-literacy people that are experiences in capital markets, finance, how capital is accumulated, innovation occurs, but then also how that applies into supporting the warfighter. So we were given a sandbox. We were given a blank slate.   Naviere Walkewicz 41:37 It's your happy place.   Mike Ott 41:38 Oh, super awesome. And began to build out relationships at Silicon Valley with commercial entities, and developed some concepts that are now being deployed with DIU and many other people came in and brought them all to life. But I was lucky enough after I retired from the Reserves as a colonel to be asked to come back as an adviser, because of that background and that experience, the genesis of the organization. So today I'm an unpaid SGE — special government employee — to help DIU look across a variety of different domains. And so I'm sure many of our listeners know it's key areas that we've got to harness the commercial marketplace. We know that if you go back into the '70s, ‘60s and ‘70s, and creation of the internet, GPS, precision munitions and all of that, the R&D dollars spent in the aggregate for the country, 95% came out of DOD is completely flip flopped today. Completely flipped. We happen to live in an open, free society. We hope to have capital markets and access a lot of that technology isn't burdened like it might be in China. And so that's the good and bad of this open society that we have. We've got to find ways. So we, the team does a lot of great work, and I just help them think about capital markets, money flows, threat finance. How you use financial markets to interdict, listen, see signals, but then also different technologies across cyberspace, autonomy, AI. Goodness gracious, I'm sure there's a few others. There's just so much. So I'm just an interloper that helps them think about that, and it's super fun that they think that I can be helpful. Naviere Walkewicz 43:29 Well, I think I was curious on how, because you love the ambiguity, and that's just something that fills your bucket — so while you're leading MOBE and you're creating something very stable, it sounds like DIU and being that kind of special employee, government employee, helps you to fill that need for your ambiguous side.   Mike Ott 43:48 You're right. You're right.   Naviere Walkewicz 43:49 Yeah, I thought that's really fascinating. Well, I think it's wonderful that you get to create that and you just said, the speed of business is this [snaps]. How do you find time in your life to balance what you also put your values around — your health — when you have such an important job and taking care of so many people? Mike Ott 44:06 I think we're all pretty disciplined at the Academy, right? I remain that way, and I'm very, very — I'm spring loaded to ‘no,' right? “Hey, do you want to go do this?” Yeah, I want to try do, I want to do a lot of things, but I'm spring loaded. So like, “Hey, you want to go out and stay, stay up late and have a drink?” “No,” right? “Do you want to do those things?” So I'm very, very regimented in that I get eight hours of sleep, right? And even somebody, even as a cadet, one of the nicknames my buddies gave me was Rip Van Ott, right? Because I'm like, “This is it.” I was a civil engineer. One of my roommates was an astro guy, and I think he pulled an all-nighter once a week.   Naviere Walkewicz 45:46 Oh, my goodness, yeah.   Mike Ott 45:50 Like, “Dude, what are you doing?” And it wasn't like he was straight As. I was clearly not straight As, but I'm like, “What are you doing? That's not helpful. Do the work ahead of time.” I think I maybe pulled three or four all-nighters my entire four years. Now, it's reflected in my GPA. I get that, but I finished the engineering degree. But sleep matters, right? And some things are just nonnegotiable, and that is, you know, exercise, sleep and be kind to yourself, right? Don't compare. If you're going to compare, compare yourself to yesterday, but don't look at somebody who is an F-15 pilot, and you're not. Like, I'm not. My roommate, my best man at my wedding, F-15 pilot, Test Pilot School, all these things, amazing, amazing, awesome, and super, really, really, happy and proud for him, but that's his mojo; that's his flow, right? If you're gonna do any comparison, compare yourself to the man or woman you were yesterday and “Am I better?”. Naviere Walkewicz 44:48 The power of “no” and having those nonnegotiables is really important. Mike Ott 45:53 Yeah, no, I'm not doing that. Naviere Walkewicz 45:56 I think sometimes we're wired for a “we can take on… we can take it on, we can take it on, we can take it on. We got this.” Mike Ott 46:03 For sure. Oh, my goodness. And I have that discussion with people on my team from time to time as well, and it's most often as it relates to an individual on the team that's struggling in his or her role, or whether it's by you know, if it's by omission and they're in the wrong role, that's one thing. If it's by commission, well, be a leader and execute and get that person out of there, right? That's wrong, but from time to time, it's by omission, and somebody is just not well placed. And I've seen managers, I can repatriate this person. I can get him or her there, and you have to stop for a second and tell that leader, “Yeah, I know you can. I'm certain that the only thing you were responsible for was to help that person fulfill the roles of the job that they're assigned. You could do it.” But guess what? You've got 90% of your team that needs care, nurturing and feeding. They're delivering in their function, neglect, there destroys careers, and it's going to destroy the business. So don't, don't get caught up in that. Yeah. Pack it on. Pack it on. Pack it on. You're right. When someone's in the crosshairs, I want to be in the crosshairs with you, Naviere, and Ted, and all the people that you and I affiliate with, but on the day-to-day, sustained basis, right to live, you know, to execute and be fulfilled, both in the mission, the work and stay fit, to fight and do it again. You can't. You can't. And a lot of a little bit of no goes a long way. Naviere Walkewicz 47:40 That is really good to hear. I think that's something that a lot of leaders really don't share. And I think that's really wonderful that you did. I'd like to take a little time and pivot into another area that you're heavily involved, philanthropy side. You know, you've been with the Falcon Foundation. Where did you find that intent inside of you? I mean, you always said the Academy's been part of you, but you found your way back in that space in other ways. Let's talk about that. Mike Ott 48:05 Sure. Thank you. I don't know. I felt that service is a part of me, right? And it is for all of us, whether you stay in the military or not. Part of my financial services jobs have been in wealth management. I was lucky enough to run that business for US Bank in one of my capacities, and here I am now in health care, health care of service. That aligns with wanting things to be better across any other angle. And the philanthropic, philanthropic side of things — I probably couldn't say that word when I was a cadet, but then, you know, I got out and we did different volunteer efforts. We were at Hanscom Field raising money for different organizations, and stayed with it, and always found ways to have fun with it. But recognized I couldn't… It was inefficient if I was going to be philanthropic around something that I didn't have a personal interest in. And as a senior executive at US Bank, we were all… It was tacit to the role you had roles in local foundations or community efforts. And I remember sitting down with my boss, the CFO of the bank, and then the CEO, and they'd asked me to go on to a board, and it had to do with a museum that I had no interest in, right? And I had a good enough relationship with these, with these guys, to say, “Look, I'm a good dude. I'm going to be helpful in supporting the bank. And if this is a have to, all right, I'll do it, but you got the wrong guy. Like, you want me to represent the bank passionately, you know, philanthropically, let me do this. And they're like, “OK, great.” So we pivoted, and I did other things. And the philanthropic piece of things is it's doing good. It's of service for people, entities, organizations, communities or moments that can use it. And I it's just very, very satisfying to me. So my wife and I are pretty involved that way, whether it's locally, with different organizations, lot of military support. The Academy, we're very fond of. It just kind of became a staple. Naviere Walkewicz 50:35 Did you find yourself also gravitating toward making better your community where you grew up? Mike Ott 50:41 Yeah, yeah, yeah. One of my dear friends that grew up in the same neighborhood, he wound up going to the Naval Academy, and so we're we've been friends for 50 years. Seventh grade.   Naviere Walkewicz 50:53 Same counselor? Mike Ott50:54 Yeah, no. Different counselor, different high school. His parents had a little bit of money, and they, he wound up going to a Catholic school nearby. But great guy, and so he and I, he runs a business that serves the VA in Chicago, and I'm on the board, and we do an awful lot of work. And one of the schools we support is a school on the south side, largely African American students and helping them with different STEM projects. It's not going to hit above the fold of a newspaper, but I could give a rat, doesn't matter to me, seeing a difference, seeing these young men and women. One of them, one of these boys, it's eye watering, but he just found out that he was picked for, he's applying to the Naval Academy, and he just found out that he got a nomination.   Naviere Walkewicz 51:44 Oh my goodness, I just got chills.   Mike Ott 51:46 And so, yeah, yeah, right, right. But it's wonderful. And his parents had no idea anything like that even existed. So that's one that it's not terribly formal, but boy, it looks great when you see the smile on that kid and the impact on that individual, but then the impact it leaves on the community, because it's clear opportunity for people to aspire because they know this young man or this young woman, “I can do that too.” Naviere Walkewicz 52:22 Wow. So he got his nomination, and so he would start technically making class of 2030?   Mike Ott 52:27 That's right. Naviere Walkewicz 52:28 Oh, how exciting. OK Well, that's a wonderful…   Mike Ott 52:27 I hope, I hope, yeah, he's a great kid. Naviere Walkewicz 52:33 Oh, that is wonderful. So you talk about, you know that spirit of giving — how have you seen, I guess, in your journey, because it hasn't been linear. We talked about how you know progression is not linear. How have you grown throughout these different experiences? Because you kind of go into a very ambiguous area, and you bring yourself, and you grow in it and you make it better. But how have you grown? What does that look like for you? Mike Ott 53:02 After having done it several times, right, i.e. entering the fray of an ambiguous environment business situation, I developed a better system and understanding of what do I really need to do out of the gates? And I've grown that way and learn to not be too decisive too soon. Decisiveness is a great gift. It's really, really it's important. It lacks. It lacks because there are too many people, less so in the military, that want to be known for having made… don't want to be known for having made a bad decision, so they don't take that risk. Right, right, right. And so that creates just sort of the static friction, and you've just got to have faith and so, but I've learned how to balance just exactly when to be decisive. And the other thing that I know about me is I am drawn to ambiguity. I am drawn… Very, very curious. Love to learn, try new things, have a range of interests and not very good at any one thing, but that range helps me in critical thinking. So I've learned to, depending on the situation, right, listen, listen, and then go. It isn't a formula. It's a flow, but it's not a formula. And instinct matters when to be decisive. Nature of the people with whom you're working, nature of the mission, evolution, phase of the organization or the unit that you're in. Now is the time, right? So balancing fostering decisiveness is something that that's worth a separate discussion. Naviere Walkewicz 54:59 Right. Wow. So all of these things that you've experienced and the growth that you've had personally — do you think about is this? Is this important to you at all, the idea of, what is your legacy, or is that not? Mike Ott 55:13 We talked a little bit about this beforehand, and I thought I've got to come up with something pithy, right? And I really, I really don't.   Naviere Walkewicz 55:18 Yeah, you don't.   Mike Ott 55:19 I don't think of myself as that. I'm very proud of who I am and what I've done in the reputation that I have built. I don't need my name up in lights. I know the life that I'm living and the life that I hope to live for a lot longer. My legacy is just my family, my children, the mark that I've left in the organizations that I have been a part of.   Naviere Walkewicz 55:58 And the communities that you've touched, like that gentleman going and getting his nomination. I'm sure.   Mike Ott 56:04 Yeah, I don't… having been a senior leader, and even at MOBE, I'm interviewed by different newspapers and all that. Like I do it because I'm in this role, and it's important for MOBE, but I'm not that full of myself, where I got to be up in lights. So I just want to be known as a man that was trustworthy, fun, tried to meet people where they are really had flaws, and sought to overcome them with the few strengths that he had, and moved everything forward. Naviere Walkewicz 56:33 Those are the kind of leaders that people will run through fire for. That's amazing. I think that's a wonderful I mean that in itself, it's like a living legacy you do every day. How can I be better than I was yesterday? And that in itself, is a bit of your living and that's really cool. Well, one of the things we like to ask is, “What is something you're doing every day to be better as a leader?” And you've covered a lot, so I mean, you could probably go back to one of those things, but is there something that you could share with our listeners that you do personally every day, to be better? Mike Ott 57:05 Exercise and read every day, every day, and except Fridays. Fridays I take… that's like, I'll stretch or just kind of go for a walk. But every day I make it a moment, you know, 45 minutes to an hour, something and better for my head, good for my body, right? That's the process in the hierarchy of way I think about it. And then read. Gen. Mattis. And I supported Gen. Mattis as a lieutenant colonel before I wanted to and stuff at the Pentagon. And he I supported him as an innovation guy for JFCOM, where he was the commander. And even back then, he was always talking about reading is leading none of us as military leaders… And I can't hold the candle to the guy, but I learned an awful lot, and I love his mindset, and that none of us can live a life long enough to take In all the leadership lessons necessary to help us drive impact. So you better be reading about it all the time. And so I read probably an hour every night, every day.   Naviere Walkewicz 58:14 What are you reading right now?   Mike Ott 58:15 Oh, man, I left it on the plane! I was so bummed. Naviere Walkewicz 58:17 Oh, that's the worst. You're going to have to get another copy. Mike Ott 58:22 Before I came here, I ordered it from Barnes & Noble so to me at my house when I get home. Love history and reading a book by this wonderful British author named Anne Reid. And it's, I forget the title exactly, but it's how the allies at the end of World War I sought to influence Russia and overcome the Bolsheviks. They were called the interventionalists, and it was an alliance of 15 different countries, including the U.S., Britain, France, U.K., Japan, Australia, India, trying to thwart, you know, the Bolshevik Revolution — trying to thwart its being cemented. Fascinating, fascinating. So that's what I was reading until I left it on the plane today. Naviere Walkewicz 59:07 How do you choose what to read? Mike Ott 59:10 Listen, write, love history. Love to read Air Force stuff too. Just talk to friends, right? You know, they've learned how to read like me. So we get to talk and have fun with that. Naviere Walkewicz 59:22 That's great. Yeah, that's wonderful. Well, the last question I'd like to ask you, before I want to make sure you have an opportunity to cover anything we didn't, is what is something you would share with others that they can do to become better leaders? Maybe they start doing it now, so in the future, they're even stronger as a leader. Mike Ott 59:42 Two things I would say, and try to have these exist in the same breath in the same moment, is have the courage to make it try and make it better every day, all right, and be kind to yourself, be forgiving. Naviere Walkewicz 59:59 That's really powerful. Can you share an example? And I know I that's we could just leave it there, but being courageous and then being kind to yourself, they're almost on two opposite sides. Have you had, can you share an example where I guess you've done that right? You had to be you were courageous and making something better, and maybe it didn't go that way, so you have to be kind to yourself. Mike Ott 1:00:23 Yeah, happy to and I think any cadet will hear this story and go like, “Huh, wow, that's interesting.” And it also plays with the arc of progress isn't linear. I graduated in '85 went to flight school, got halfway through flight school, and there was a RIF, reduction in force. And our class, our flight class, I was flying jets, I was soloing. I was academically — super easy, flying average, right? You know, I like to joke that I've got the fine motor skills of a ham sandwich, right? You know, but, but I didn't finish flight school. And you think about this, here it is. I started in 1981 there were still vestiges of Vietnam. Everyone's going to be a fighter pilot. Kill, kill, kill. Blood makes the grass grow. All of that was there. And I remember when this happened, it was very frustrating for me. It was mostly the major root of frustration wasn't that I wasn't finishing flight school. It was the nature by which the determination that I wasn't finishing was made. And it was, it was a financial decision. We had too many guys and gals, and they were just finding, you know, average folks and then kicking them out. So our class graduated a lower percent than, I think, in that era, it was late '85, '86, maybe '87, but you can look at outflows, and it was interesting, they were making budget cuts. So there was a shaming part there, having gone to the Academy.   Naviere Walkewicz 1:02:02 And knowing since 9 years old. Mike Ott 1:20:04 Right, right, right, and I knew I wanted to go the Academy. I'd like to fly, let's check it out and see if it's for me. I would much rather have been not for me, had I made the decision I don't want to do this or that I was just unsafe and didn't want to do it. The way it turned out is, and this is where I learned a little bit about politics as well. In my class, again, I was very average. Like, nobody's ever going to say, like, yeah, I was going to go fly the Space Shuttle. Like, no way, right? Very, very average, but doing just fine. And a lot of guys and gals wanted to go be navigators, and that's great. I looked in the regs, and I learned this as a cadet, and it's helped me in business, too. If there's a rule, there's a waiver. Like, let me understand the regs, and I asked to go to a board. Instead of just submitting a letter to appeal, I asked to go to a board. And so I went to a board of an O-5 five, couple of threes O-4 four, and ultimately shared the essence of why I shouldn't be terminated in the program. And son of a gun, they agreed, and I still have the letter. The letter says, “Recommend Lt. Ott for reinstatement.” Nobody in my class has that letter, nobody makes the appeal. And I'm like, I'm going downstream. I'm going downstream. And that's the Chicago in me, and that's the piece about… but also move forward, but forgive yourself, and I'll get to that. And so I, I was thrilled, My goodness, and the argument I had is, like, look, you're just not keeping me current. You put me in the sim, and then you're waiting too long to put me in the jet. The regs don't allow for that. And like, you're right. So I'm assigned to go back to the jet. My pals are thrilled. I'm going to stay in the same class. I don't have to wash back. And then I get a call from the DO's office — director of operations — and it was from some civilian person so the DO overrode the board's decision. Heartbreaking. Heartbreaking.   Naviere Walkewicz 1:04:12 You were so high, you did all of your work. And then… Mike Ott 1:04:15 Yeah, and then heartbreaking and frustrating, and I guess the word is indignant: anger aroused through frustration. In that I figured it out. I knew exactly what's happening. I made the appeal and I won. And it wasn't I was expecting to be assigned to fly a fighter. It was like, “Just let me, let me express the merits of my capabilities. It's how the system is designed.” The son of a gun, I jumped in my car and I ran to base and I waited and reported in. He didn't really know who I was. That's because he didn't make a decision. It was just it was that decision, and that's how life comes at you. That's just how it is. It isn't linear. So how do you take that and then say, “Well, I'm going to be kind to myself and make something out of it.” And he went through, you know, a dissertation as to why, and I asked him if I could share my views, and it's pretty candid, and I just said, If my dad were something other than the Chicago policeman, and maybe if he was a senator or general officer, I wouldn't be sitting here. That lit him up, right? That lit him up. But I had to state my views. So I knew I was out of the program. Very, very frustrating. Could have had the mayor of Chicago call. Didn't do that, right? Like, OK, I understand where this is it. That was very frustrating and somewhat shaming. But where the forgiveness comes in and be kind to yourself, is that I ran into ground. I ran into ground and drove an outcome where I still… It's a moment of integrity. I drove an outcome like, there you go. But then what do you do? Forgive yourself, right? Because you didn't do anything wrong, OK? And you pivot. And I turned that into a moment where I started cold calling instructors at the Academy. Because, hey, now I owe the Air Force five years, Air Force is looking for, you know, things that I don't want to do. And thank goodness I had an engineering degree, and I cold called a guy at a base in Hanscom. And this is another tap on the shoulder.   Naviere Walkewicz 1:06:24 That's how you got to Hanscom. Gotcha.   Mike Ott 1:06:27 There was a friend who was Class of '83, a woman who was in my squadron, who was there. Great egg. And she's like, “Hey, I was at the O Club.” Called her. I said, “Hey, help me out. I got this engineering degree. I want to go to one of these bases. Called Lt. Col. Davis, right? I met him at the O Club. I called a guy, and he's like, “Yeah, let's do this.”   Naviere Walkewicz 1:06:44 Wow, I love that..   Mike Ott 1:06:46 It was fantastic So it's a long winded way, but progress isn't linear. And progressing through that and not being a victim, right, recognizing the conditions and the environment that I could control and those that I can't. Anything that I could control, I took advantage of and I sought to influence as best possible. Ran into ground and I feel great about it, and it turns out to be a testament of one of my best successes. Naviere Walkewicz 1:07:17 Wow. Thank you for sharing

My fellow pro-growth/progress/abundance Up Wingers,China's spacefaring ambitions pose tough competition for America. With a focused, centralized program, Beijing seems likely to land taikonauts on the moon before another American flag is planted. Meanwhile, NASA faces budget cuts, leadership gaps, and technical setbacks. In his new book, journalist Christian Davenport chronicles the fierce rivalry between American firms, mainly SpaceX and Blue Origin. It's a contest that, despite the challenges, promises to propel humanity to the moon, Mars, and maybe beyond.Davenport is an author and a reporter for the Washington Post, where he covers NASA and the space industry. His new book, Rocket Dreams: Musk, Bezos, and the Inside Story of the New, Trillion-Dollar Space Race, is out now.In This Episode* Check-in on NASA (1:28)* Losing the Space Race (5:49)* A fatal flaw (9:31)* State of play (13:33)* The long-term vision (18:37)* The pace of progress (22:50)* Friendly competition (24:53)Below is a lightly edited transcript of our conversation. Check-in on NASA (1:28)The Chinese tend to do what they say they're going to do on the timeline that they say they're going to do it. That said, they haven't gone to the moon . . . It's really hard.Pethokoukis: As someone — and I'm speaking about myself — who wants to get America back to the moon as soon as possible, get cooking on getting humans to Mars for the first time, what should I make of what's happening at NASA right now?They don't have a lander. I'm not sure the rocket itself is ready to go all the way, we'll find out some more fairly soon with Artemis II. We have flux with leadership, maybe it's going to not be an independent-like agency anymore, it's going to join the Department of Transportation.It all seems a little chaotic. I'm a little worried. Should I be?Davenport: Yes, I think you should be. And I think a lot of the American public isn't paying attention and they're going to see the Artemis II mission, which you mentioned, and that's that mission to send a crew of astronauts around the moon. It won't land on the moon, but it'll go around, and I think if that goes well, NASA's going to take a victory leap. But as you correctly point out, that is a far cry from getting astronauts back on the lunar surface.The lander isn't ready. SpaceX, as acting NASA administrator Sean Duffy just said, is far behind, reversing himself from like a month earlier when he said no, they appear to be on track, but everybody knew that they were well behind because they've had 11 test flights, and they still haven't made it to orbit with their Starship rocket.The rocket itself that's going to launch them into the vicinity of the moon, the SLS, launches about once every two years. It's incredibly expensive, it's not reusable, and there are problems within the agency itself. There are deep cuts to it. A lot of expertise is taking early retirements. It doesn't have a full-time leader. It hasn't had a full-time leader since Trump won the election. At the same time, they're sort of beating the drum saying we're going to beat the Chinese back to the lunar surface, but I think a lot of people are increasingly looking at that with some serious concern and doubt.For what it's worth, when I looked at the betting markets, it gave the Chinese a two-to-one edge. It said that it was about a 65 percent chance they were going to get there first. Does that sound about right to you?I'm not much of a betting man, but I do think there's a very good chance. The Chinese tend to do what they say they're going to do on the timeline that they say they're going to do it. That said, they haven't gone to the moon, they haven't done this. It's really hard. They're much more secretive, if they have setbacks and delays, we don't necessarily know about them. But they've shown over the last 10, 20 years how capable they are. They have a space station in low earth orbit. They've operated a rover on Mars. They've gone to the far side of the moon twice, which nobody has done, and brought back a sample return. They've shown the ability to keep people alive in space for extended periods of times on the space station.The moon seems within their capabilities and they're saying they're going to do it by 2030, and they don't have the nettlesome problem of democracy where you've got one party come in and changing the budget, changing the direction for NASA, changing leadership. They've just set the moon — and, by the way, the south pole of the moon, which is where we want to go as well — as the destination and have been beating a path toward that for several years now.Is there anyone for merging NASA into the Department of Transportation? Is there a hidden reservoir? Is that an idea people have been talking about now that's suddenly emerged to the surface?It's not something that I particularly heard. The FAA is going to regulate the launches, and they coordinate with the airspace and make sure that the air traffic goes around it, but I think NASA has a particular expertise. Rocket science is rocket science — it's really difficult. This isn't for the faint of heart.I think a lot of people look at human space flight and it's romanticized. It's romanticized in books and movies and in popular culture, but the fact of the matter is it's really, really hard, it's really dangerous, every time a human being gets on one of those rockets, there's a chance of an explosion, of something really, really bad happening, because a million things have to go right in order for them to have a successful flight. The FAA does a wonderful job managing — or, depending on your point of view, some people don't think they do such a great job, but I think space is a whole different realm, for sure.Losing the Space Race (5:49). . . the American flags that the Apollo astronauts planted, they're basically no longer there anymore. . . There are, however, two Chinese flags on the moonHave you thought about what it will look like the day after, in this country, if China gets to the moon first and we have not returned there yet?Actually, that's a scenario I kind of paint out. I've got this new book called Rocket Dreams and we talk about the geopolitical tensions in there. Not to give too much of a spoiler, but NASA has said that the first person to return to the moon, for the US, is going to be a woman. And there's a lot of people thinking, who could that be? It could be Jessica Meir, who is a mother and posted a picture of herself pregnant and saying, “This is what an astronaut looks like.” But it could very well be someone like Wang Yaping, who's also a mother, and she came back from one of her stays on the International Space Station and had a message for her daughter that said, “I come back bringing all the stars for you.” So I think that I could see China doing it and sending a woman, and that moment where that would be a huge coup for them, and that would obviously be symbolic.But when you're talking about space as a tool of soft power and diplomacy, I think it would attract a lot of other nations to their side who are sort of waiting on the sidelines or who frankly aren't on the sidelines, who have signed on to go to the United States, but are going to say, “Well, they're there and you're not, so that's who we're going to go with.”I think about the wonderful alt-history show For All Mankind, which begins with the Soviets beating the US to the moon, and instead of Neil Armstrong giving the “one small step for man,” basically the Russian cosmonaut gives, “Its one small step for Marxism-Leninism,” and it was a bummer. And I really imagine that day, if China beats us, it is going to be not just, “Oh, I guess now we have to share the moon with someone else,” but it's going to cause some national soul searching.And there are clues to this, and actually I detail these two anecdotes in the book, that all of the flags, the American flags that the Apollo astronauts planted, they're basically no longer there anymore. We know from Buzz Aldrin‘s memoir that the flag that he and Neil Armstrong planted in the lunar soil in 1969, Buzz said that he saw it get knocked over by the thrust in the exhaust of the module lifting off from the lunar surface. Even if that hadn't happened, just the radiation environment would've bleached the flag white, as scientists believe it has to all the other flags that are on there. So there are essentially really no trace of the Apollo flags.There are, however, two Chinese flags on the moon, and the first one, which was planted a couple of years ago, or unveiled a couple of years ago, was made not of cloth, but their scientists and engineers spent a year building a composite material flag designed specifically to withstand the harsh environment of the moon. When they went back last summer for their farside sample return mission, they built a flag, — and this is pretty amazing — out of basalt, like volcanic rock, which you find on Earth. And they use basalt from earth, but of course basalt is common on the moon. They were able to take the rock, turn it into lava, extract threads from the lava and weave this flag, which is now near the south pole of the moon. The significance of that is they are showing that they can use the resources of the moon, the basalt, to build flags. It's called ISR: in situ resource utilization. So to me, nothing symbolizes their intentions more than that.A fatal flaw (9:31). . . I tend to think if it's a NASA launch . . . and there's an explosion . . . I still think there are going to be investigations, congressional reports, I do think things would slow down dramatically.In the book, you really suggest a new sort of golden age of space. We have multiple countries launching. We seem to have reusable rockets here in the United States. A lot of plans to go to the moon. How sustainable is this economically? And I also wonder what happens if we have another fatal accident in this country? Is there so much to be gained — whether it's economically, or national security, or national pride in space — that this return to space by humanity will just go forward almost no matter what?I think so. I think you've seen a dramatic reduction in the cost of launch. SpaceX and the Falcon 9, the reusable rocket, has dropped launches down. It used to be if you got 10, 12 orbital rocket launches in a year, that was a good year. SpaceX is launching about every 48 hours now. It's unprecedented what they've done. You're seeing a lot of new players — Blue Origin, Rocket Lab, others — driving down the cost of launch.That said, the main anchor tenant customer, the force driving all of this is still the government, it's still NASA, it's still the Pentagon. There is not a self-sustaining space economy that exists in addition or above and beyond the government. You're starting to see bits of that, but really it's the government that's driving it.When you talk about the movie For All Mankind, you sort of wonder if at one point, what happened in that movie is there was a huge investment into NASA by the government, and you're seeing that to some extent today, not so much with NASA, but actually on the national security side and the creation of the Space Force and the increases, just recently, in the Space Force's budget. I mean, my gosh, if you have $25 billion for this year alone for Golden Dome, the Missile Defense Shield, that's the equivalent of NASA's entire budget. That's the sort of funding that helps build those capabilities going forward.And if we should, God forbid, have a fatal accident, you think we'll just say that's the cost of human exploration and forward we go?I think a lot about this, and the answer is, I don't know. When we had Challenger and we had Columbia, the world stopped, and the Space Shuttle was grounded for months if not a year at a time, and the world just came to an end. And you wonder now if it's becoming more routine and what happens? Do we just sort of carry on in that way?It's not a perfect analogy, but when you talk about commercial astronauts, these rich people are paying a lot of money to go, and if there's an accident there, what would happen? I think about that, and you think about Mount Everest. The people climbing Mount Everest today, those mountain tourists are literally stepping over dead bodies as they're going up to the summit, and nobody's shutting down Mount Everest, they're just saying, well, if you want to climb Mount Everest, that's the risk you take. I do wonder if we're going to get that to that point in space flight, but I tend to think if it's a NASA launch, and it's NASA astronauts, and there's an explosion, and there's a very bad day, I still think there are going to be investigations, congressional reports, I do think things would slow down dramatically.The thing is, if it's SpaceX, they have had accidents. They've had multiple accidents — not with people, thank goodness — and they have been grounded.It is part of the model.It's part of the model, and they have shown how they can find out what went wrong, fix it, and return to flight, and they know their rocket so well because they fly it so frequently. They know it that well, and NASA, despite what you think about Elon, NASA really, really trusts SpaceX and they get along really well.State of play (13:33)[Blue Origin is] way behind for myriad reasons. They sat out while SpaceX is launching the Falcon 9 every couple of days . . . Blue Origin, meanwhile, has flown its New Glenn rocket one time.I was under the impression that Blue Origin was way behind SpaceX. Are they catching up?This is one of the themes of the book. They are way behind for myriad reasons. They sat out while SpaceX is launching the Falcon 9 every couple of days, they're pushing ahead with Starship, their next generation rocket would be fully reusable, twice the thrust and power of the Saturn V rocket that flew the Apollo astronauts to the Moon. Blue Origin, meanwhile, has flown its New Glenn rocket one time. They might be launching again soon within the coming weeks or months, hopefully by the end of the year, but that's two. They are so far behind, but you do hear Jeff Bezos being much more tuned into the company. He has a new CEO — a newish CEO — plucked from the ranks of Amazon, Dave Limp, and you do sort of see them charging, and now that the acting NASA administrator has sort of opened up the competition to go to the moon, I don't know that Blue Origin beats SpaceX to do it, but it gives them some incentive to move fast, which I think they really need.I know it's only a guess and it's only speculation, but when we return to the moon, which company will have built that lander?At this point, you have to put your money on SpaceX just because they're further along in their development. They've flown humans before. They know how to keep people alive in space. In their Dragon capsule, they have the rendezvous and proximity operations, they know how to dock. That's it.Blue Origin has their uncrewed lander, the Mark 1 version that they hope to land on the moon next year, so it's entirely possible that Blue Origin actually lands a spacecraft on the lunar surface before SpaceX, and that would be a big deal. I don't know that they're able to return humans there, however, before SpaceX.Do you think there's any regrets by Jeff Bezos about how Blue Origin has gone about its business here? Because obviously it really seems like it's a very different approach, and maybe the Blue Origin approach, if we look back 10 years, will seem to have been the better approach, but given where we are now and what you just described, would you guess that he's deeply disappointed with the kind of progress they made via SpaceX?Yeah, and he's been frustrated. Actually, the opening scene of the book is Jeff being upset that SpaceX is so far ahead and having pursued a partnership with NASA to fly cargo and supply to the International Space Station and then to fly astronauts to the International Space Station, and Blue Origin essentially sat out those competitions. And he turns to his team — this was early on in 2016 — and said, “From here on out, we go after everything that SpaceX goes after, we're going to compete with them. We're going to try to keep up.” And that's where they went, and sort of went all in early in the first Trump administration when it was clear that they wanted to go back to the moon, to position Blue Origin to say, “We can help you go back to the moon.”But yes, I think there's enormous frustration there. And I know, if not regret on Jeff's part, but certainly among some of his senior leadership, because I've talked to them about it.What is the war for talent between those two companies? Because if you're a hotshot engineer out of MIT, I'd guess you'd probably want to go to SpaceX. What is that talent war like, if you have any idea?It's fascinating. Just think a generation ago, you're a hot MIT engineer coming out of grad school, chances are you're going to go to NASA or one of the primes, right? Lockheed, or Boeing, or Air Jet, something like that. Now you've got SpaceX and Blue Origin, but you've got all kinds of other options too: Stoke Space, Rocket Lab, you've got Axiom, you've got companies building commercial space stations, commercial companies building space suits, commercial companies building rovers for the moon, a company called Astro Lab.I think what you hear is people want to go to SpaceX because they're doing things: they're flying rockets, they're flying people, you're actually accomplishing something. That said, the culture's rough, and you're working all the time, and the burnout rate is high. Blue Origin more has a tradition of people getting frustrated that yeah, the work-life balance is better — although I hear that's changing, actually, that it's driving much, much harder — but it's like, when are we launching? What are we doing here?And so the fascinating thing is actually, I call it SpaceX and Blue Origin University, where so many of the engineers go out and either do their own things or go to work for other companies doing things because they've had that experience in the commercial sector.The long-term vision (18:37)That's the interesting thing, that while they compete . . . at a base level, Elon and Jeff and SpaceX and Blue Origin want to accomplish the same things and have a lot in common . . .At a talk recently, Bezos was talking about space stations in orbit and there being like a million people in space in 20 years doing economically valuable things of some sort. How seriously should I take that kind of prediction?Well, I think a million people in 20 years is not feasible, but I think that's ultimately what is his goal. His goal is, as he says, he founded Amazon, the infrastructure was there: the phone companies had laid down the cables for the internet, the post office was there to deliver the books, there was an invention called the credit card, he could take people's money. That infrastructure for space isn't there, and he wants to sort of help with Elon and SpaceX. That's their goal.That's the interesting thing, that while they compete, while they poke each other on Twitter and kind of have this rivalry, at a base level, Elon and Jeff and SpaceX and Blue Origin want to accomplish the same things and have a lot in common, and that's lower the cost of access to space and make it more accessible so that you can build this economy on top of it and have more people living in space. That's Elon's dream, and the reason he founded SpaceX is to build a city on Mars, right? Something's going to happen to Earth at some point we should have a backup plan.Jeff's goal from the beginning was to say, you don't really want to inhabit another planet or celestial body. You're better off in these giant space stations envisioned by a Princeton physics professor named Gerard O'Neill, who Jeff Bezos read his book The High Frontier and became an acolyte of Gerard O'Neill from when he was a kid, and that's sort of his vision, that you don't have to go to a planet, you can just be on a Star Trekkian sort of spacecraft in orbit around the earth, and then earth is preserved as this national park. If you want to return to Earth, you can, but you get all the resources from space. In 500 years is that feasible? Yeah, probably, but that's not going to be in our lives, or our kids' lives, or our grandkids' lives.For that vision — anything like that vision — to happen, it seems to me that the economics needs to be there, and the economics just can't be national security and national prestige. We need to be doing things in space, in orbit, on the moon that have economic value on their own. Do we know what that would look like, or is it like you've got to build the infrastructure first and then let the entrepreneurs do their thing and see what happens?I would say the answer is “yes,” meaning it's both. And Jeff even says it, that some of the things that will be built, we do not know. When you had the creation of the internet, no one was envisioning Snapchat or TikTok. Those applications come later. But we do know that there are resources in space. We know there's a plentiful helium three, for example, on the surface of the moon, which it could be vital for, say, quantum computing, and there's not a lot of it on earth, and that could be incredibly valuable. We know that asteroids have precious metals in large quantities. So if you can reduce the cost of accessing them and getting there, then I think you could open up some of those economies. If you just talk about solar rays in space, you don't have day and night, you don't have cloud cover, you don't have an atmosphere, you're just pure sunlight. If you could harness that energy and bring it back to earth, that could be valuable.The problem is the cost of entry is so high and it's so difficult to get there, but if you have a vehicle like Starship that does what Elon envisions and it launches multiple times a day like an airline, all you're really doing is paying for the fuel to launch it, and it goes up and comes right back down, it can carry enormous amounts of mass, you can begin to get a glimmer of how this potentially could work years from now.The pace of progress (22:50)People talk about US-China, but clearly Russia has been a long-time player. India, now, has made extraordinary advancements. Of course, Europe, Japan, and all those countries are going to want to have a foothold in space . . .How would you characterize the progress now than when you wrote your first book?So much has happened that the first book, The Space Barons was published in 2018, and I thought, yeah, there'll be enough material here for another one in maybe 10 years or so, and here we are, what, seven years later, and the book is already out because commercial companies are now flying people. You've got a growth of the space ecosystem beyond just the Space Barons, beyond just the billionaires.You've got multiple players in the rocket launch market, and really, I think a lot of what's driving it isn't just the rivalries between the commercial companies in the United States, but the geopolitical space race between the United States and China, too that's really driving a lot of this, and the technological change that we've seen has moved very fast. Again, how fast SpaceX is launching, Blue Origin coming online, new launch vehicles, potentially new commercial space stations, and a broadening of the space ecosystem, it's moving fast. Does that mean it's perfect? No, companies start, they fail, they have setbacks, they go out of business, but hey, that's capitalism.Ten years from now, how many space stations are going to be in orbit around the earth?I think we'll have at least one or two commercial space stations for the United States, I think China. Is it possible you've got the US space stations, does that satisfy the demand? People talk about US-China, but clearly Russia has been a long-time player. India, now, has made extraordinary advancements. Of course, Europe, Japan, and all those countries are going to want to have a foothold in space for their scientists, for their engineers, for their pharmaceutical companies that want to do research in a zero-G environment. I think it's possible that there are, within 10 years, three, maybe even four space stations. Yeah, I think that's possible.Friendly competition (24:53)I honestly believe [Elon] . . . wants Blue to be better than they are.Do you think Musk thinks a lot about Blue Origin, or do you think he thinks, “I'm so far ahead, we're just competing against our own goals”?I've talked to him about this. He wishes they were better. He wishes they were further along. He said to me years ago, “Jeff needs to focus on Blue Origin.” This is back when Jeff was still CEO of Amazon, saying he should focus more on Blue Origin. And he said that one of the reasons why he was goading him and needling him as he has over the years was an attempt to kind of shame him and to get him to focus on Blue, because as he said, for Blue to be successful, he really needs to be dialed in on it.So earlier this year, when New Glenn, Blue Origin's big rocket, made it to orbit, that was a moment where Elon came forward and was like, respect. That is hard to do, to build a rocket to go to orbit, have a successful flight, and there was sort of a public high five in the moment, and now I think he thinks, keep going. I honestly believe he wants Blue to be better than they are.There's a lot of Elon Musk skeptics out there. They view him either as the guy who makes too big a prediction about Tesla and self-driving cars, or he's a troll on Twitter, but when it comes to space and wanting humanity to have a self-sustaining place somewhere else — on Mars — is he for real?Yeah, I do believe that's the goal. That's why he founded SpaceX in the first place, to do that. But the bottom line is, that's really expensive. When you talk about how do you do that, what are the economic ways to do it, I think the way he's funding that is obviously through Starlink and the Starlink system. But I do believe he wants humanity to get to Mars.The problem with this now is that there hasn't been enough competition. Blue Origin hasn't given SpaceX competition. We saw all the problems that Boeing has had with their program, and so much of the national space enterprise is now in his hands. And if you remember when he had that fight and the breakup with Donald Trump, Elon, in a moment of peak, threatened to take away the Dragon spacecraft, which is the only way NASA can fly its astronauts anywhere to space, to the International Space Station. I think that was reckless and dangerous and that he regretted it, but yes, the goal to get to Mars is real, and whatever you think about Elon — and he certainly courts a controversy — SpaceX is really, really good at what they do, and what they've done is really unprecedented from an American industrial perspective.My earliest and clearest memory of America and space was the landing on Mars. I remember seeing the first pictures probably on CBS news, I think it was Dan Rather saying, “Here are the first pictures of the Martian landscape,” 1976, and if you would've asked me as a child then, I would've been like, “Yeah, so we're going to be walking on Mars,” but I was definitely hooked and I've been interested in space, but are you a space guy? How'd you end up on this beat, which I think is a fantastic beat? You've written two books about it. How did this happen?I did not grow up a space nerd, so I was born in 1973 —Christian, I said “space guy.” I didn't say “space nerd,” but yeah, that is exactly right.My first memory of space is actually the Challenger shuttle exploding. That was my memory. As a journalist, I was covering the military. I'd been embedded in Iraq, and my first book was an Iraq War book about the national guard's role in Iraq, and was covering the military. And then this guy, this was 10 years ago, 12 years ago, at this point, Elon holds a press conference at the National Press Club where SpaceX was suing the Pentagon for the right to compete for national security launch contracts, and he starts off the press conference not talking about the lawsuit, but talking about the attempts. This was early days of trying to land the Falcon 9 rocket and reuse it, and I didn't know what he was talking about. And I was like, what? And then I did some research and I was like, “He's trying to land and reuse the rockets? What?” Nobody was really covering it, so I started spending more time, and then it's the old adage, right? Follow the money. And if the richest guys in the world — Bezos Blue Origin, at the time, Richard Branson, Paul Allen had a space company — if they're investing large amounts of their own personal fortune into that, maybe we should be paying attention, and look at where we are now.On sale everywhere The Conservative Futurist: How To Create the Sci-Fi World We Were Promised Faster, Please! is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit fasterplease.substack.com/subscribe

What does life after space look like for an astronaut? For Mike Foreman, it looks like community, connection, and continuing to serve — just a little closer to Earth. Mike is a retired NASA astronaut, a U.S. Navy veteran, and the current Mayor of Friendswood, Texas. Over the course of two Space Shuttle missions — STS-123 and STS-129 — Mike logged more than 637 hours in space and completed five spacewalks (that's over 32 hours working outside the spacecraft!) helping to deliver and assemble parts of the International Space Station (ISS). Today, he's using those same lessons from space and service to inspire students, encourage future explorers, and remind us that curiosity, teamwork, and resilience aren't just mission-critical in orbit — they matter right here at home, too. In this episode, Mike joins Beth for an open and inspiring conversation about: How seeing Earth from orbit forever changes your perspective, especially orbiting over Australia  The teamwork behind every NASA mission and why leadership is about trust How his journey led from Naval test pilot to astronaut to Mayor    Mike's story is one of lifelong curiosity and service — from flying jets and fixing the ISS to leading a city and mentoring the next generation. His message? Never stop learning, serving, or looking up. About Mike Foreman: NASA Astronaut (Ret.) – Selected in 1998 Two Space Shuttle Missions: STS-123 (2008) & STS-129 (2009) Five Spacewalks: 32 hours, 19 minutes total U.S. Navy Captain (Ret.) with more than 7,000 flight hours Current Role: Mayor of Friendswood, Texas Motivational Speaker on space, STEM, and leadership Why You'll Love This Episode: If you've ever wondered how astronauts translate their experiences beyond NASA — or how one person can move from exploring the cosmos to improving their own community — this conversation will leave you inspired. Mike reminds us that exploration doesn't end when you come home from space. It just changes direction.    WATCH this episode and more Casual Space Podcast conversations on You Tube! https://www.youtube.com/@casualspacepodcast83    Want to share your story with us, so we can send it to space? The deadline for submitting your original story to STORIES of Space MISSION 03 has been extended! Don't miss this last opportunity to launch your story to space in 2025! www.storiesofspace.com

Open Line Discussion – 4451 10-26-25Quick Summary: The meeting began with technical discussions about audio issues and upcoming show scheduling, including a fundraising campaign for The Space Show. The group then engaged in extensive discussions about space exploration, focusing on SpaceX's Starship program, NASA's lunar lander projects, and the geopolitical competition with China regarding moon missions. The conversation concluded with debates about rocket system capabilities, cost effectiveness, and the need for strong leadership at NASA to navigate both technical challenges and political considerations.Detailed Summary:Our program started out with David making a few general program announcements. We talked about upcoming shows, including a potential cancellation for Friday. The conversation then shifted to space settlement, with John mentioning a recent podcast about Tesla's financial results and its focus on automation and robots for future space missions. David expressed skepticism about Starship's readiness to take humans to the moon before China and before Trump leaves office, emphasizing the political importance of achieving these goal before the end of 2028.David announced the start of the annual fundraising campaign for The Space Show, a non-profit 501C3 program, which begins around Thanksgiving. He encouraged listeners to call into live programs using Zoom Phone lines, which offers better audio quality than the previous toll-free line. David expressed gratitude to the donors who have supported the show for nearly 25 years, allowing it to continue. He also invited non-donors to participate in the program and contribute to the fundraising campaign through various payment methods on both The Space Show website, www.thespaceshow.com and our Substack site, doctorspace.substack.com.Early on I shared excitement about a new physics book by Daniel Whiteson that explores universal scientific concepts, including the possibility of alien understanding of our known physics. I also highlighted the ongoing debate between Transportation Secretary/NASA Administrator Sean Duffy and Musk regarding the delays for both the SpaceX's human lunar lander but also Blue Origin's human lunar lander projects, emphasizing the need for the U.S. to prioritize returning to the moon and beating China to it. Phil suggested a structured debate to address the technical aspects of NASA's decision to open lunar lander bidding, advocating for a more in-depth analysis of the issue.Our Zoom group discussed the possibility of organizing a debate on the Starship Human Lander Engineering Design Program, with Phil suggesting it could be a shorter, 40-minute format to attract a wider audience. David expressed concerns about the debate's impact, noting that previous attempts to influence policy through debates were unsuccessful. The group also touched on the potential for sharing debate clips on platforms like YouTube and Substack to increase exposure.The group talked about SpaceX's position and the challenges of organizing an independent audit of SpaceX's delays. They debated the feasibility of an independent panel examining technical and policy factors contributing to SpaceX's delays, with concerns raised about SpaceX's proprietary information and the current hyper-partisan environment. The conversation shifted to the broader context of U.S. space exploration, with Charles suggesting focusing on establishing a long-term lunar facility rather than rushing to beat China to the moon, while others emphasized the importance of cislunar economy and political competition in reaching the moon as soon as possible.Our Space Show participants looked at options for returning to the moon, with Ajay presenting two possible solutions: an Apollo-like lander or a modified Blue Moon Mark 1.5. Charles and others expressed concerns about the feasibility and wisdom of using old Apollo technology, arguing for a more modern approach. The discussion also touched on potential NASA administrators, with Sean Duffy and Jared Isaacman being considered as candidates. David emphasized that the NASA administrator serves at the president's pleasure and would likely follow the president's agenda rather than any personal or corporate interests.The group discussed the influence of political leaders, particularly Trump, on space policy and the role of advisors like Jared Isaacman. They explored the potential impact of a major incident involving China's space program on U.S. policy and SpaceX's development timeline. The conversation also covered milestones for both SpaceX's Starship program and China's lunar mission plans, with Marshall inquiring about China's key milestones for moon travel. The discussion concluded with an acknowledgment that the topic had been covered extensively, and David invited participants to bring up other topics for further discussion.The conversation went back to discussing the challenges and limitations of SpaceX's Starship and Falcon Heavy systems, while expressing concerns about Starship's current performance and suggesting a hypothetical collaboration between SpaceX and another company that was quickly dismissed by Michael and others due to interpersonal conflicts. Marshall presented data on Falcon 9's cost-effectiveness, claiming it had reduced space transportation costs to $2,500 per kilogram, though Phil disputed these figures, suggesting a more realistic cost of around $6,000-10,000 per kilogram. The discussion concluded with Phil explaining the mass-to-orbit ratios of different rocket systems, noting that Starship's approach was closest to the Space Shuttle's method of transporting large amounts of mass to orbit.The focus continued on the challenges and limitations of SpaceX's Starship program, particularly regarding the mass fraction required to reach orbit and the reusability concerns. They debated whether Starship could achieve the goal of 100 flights before carrying humans, with Charles and Marshall expressing skepticism about meeting this target within the given timeframe. The conversation also touched on the cost and complexity of refurbishing reusable rocket stages, comparing it to the Falcon 9 program.We talked about the potential of China beating the U.S. to extract lunar water, while I emphasized the geopolitical risks of China's lunar ambitions and the need to prioritize returning to the moon before them. John Hunt raised concerns about the government shutdown potentially hindering NASA's observations of the 3i Atlas comet, leading to a decision to invite Avi Loeb back on the show to discuss it further. The conversation also touched on ESA's planned probe for the 2030s and the Europa Clipper mission's potential to observe the comet.As we neared the end of our program we discussed the geopolitical implications of China potentially establishing a presence at the South Pole, with Marshall expressing concern about mining rights claims. Phil suggested focusing on demonstrating technological superiority rather than racing China to specific destinations. John Hunt argued that being beaten by China might actually motivate the U.S. space program, while others noted that the current political climate makes long-term planning difficult. The conversation concluded with a debate about NASA's future leadership and potential reorganization, with some emphasizing the need for someone with both technical knowledge and visionary leadership.Please see the video of this program at doctorspace.substack.com.Special thanks to our sponsors:Northrup Grumman, American Institute of Aeronautics and Astronautics, Helix Space in Luxembourg, Celestis Memorial Spaceflights, Astrox Corporation, Dr. Haym Benaroya of Rutgers University, The Space Settlement Progress Blog by John Jossy, The Atlantis Project, and Artless EntertainmentOur Toll Free Line for Live Broadcasts: 1-866-687-7223 (Not in service at this time)For real time program participation, email Dr. Space at: drspace@thespaceshow.com for instructions and access.The Space Show is a non-profit 501C3 through its parent, One Giant Leap Foundation, Inc. To donate via Pay Pal, use:To donate with Zelle, use the email address: david@onegiantleapfoundation.org.If you prefer donating with a check, please make the check payable to One Giant Leap Foundation and mail to:One Giant Leap Foundation, 11035 Lavender Hill Drive Ste. 160-306 Las Vegas, NV 89135Upcoming Programs:Broadcast 4455 ZOOM: Arkisys CEO David Barnhart | Sunday 02 Nov 2025 1200PM PTGuests:ZOOM, Dave Barnhart, CEO of Arkisys updates us with interesting news and developments Get full access to The Space Show-One Giant Leap Foundation at doctorspace.substack.com/subscribe

SHOW 10-29-25 CBS EYE ON THE WORLD WITH JOHN BATCHELOR 1920 BOLIVAR IN CARACAS THE SHOW BEGINS IN THE DOUBTS ABOUT CARACAS... FIRST HOUR 9-915 Global Flashpoints: Ceasefires, Nuclear Claims, and the Legality of Venezuela Deployment Guest: Colonel Jeff McCausland Colonel Jeff McCausland assesses global conflicts, noting the Gaza ceasefire remains fragile as neither Israel nor Hamas is willing to compromise meaningfully. Russia remains defiant, having recently tested a claimed nuclear-powered missile, with Putin insisting Ukraine must surrender to achieve peace. McCausland criticizes the US deployment of a carrier battle group near Venezuela as "overkill," resembling nineteenth-century gunboat diplomacy intended to intimidate the Maduro regime. He questions the legality of kinetic action against alleged drug smugglers without Congressional approval. 915-930 VGlobal Flashpoints: Ceasefires, Nuclear Claims, and the Legality of Venezuela Deployment Guest: Colonel Jeff McCausland Colonel Jeff McCausland assesses global conflicts, noting the Gaza ceasefire remains fragile as neither Israel nor Hamas is willing to compromise meaningfully. Russia remains defiant, having recently tested a claimed nuclear-powered missile, with Putin insisting Ukraine must surrender to achieve peace. McCausland criticizes the US deployment of a carrier battle group near Venezuela as "overkill," resembling nineteenth-century gunboat diplomacy intended to intimidate the Maduro regime. He questions the legality of kinetic action against alleged drug smugglers without Congressional approval. 930-945 Analysis of US Carrier Deployment to Venezuela: Overkill for Drug Ops, Risk of Intervention Guests: Brad Bowman, Cameron McMillan Brad Bowman and Cameron McMillan analyze the massive US military buildup near Venezuela, including the USS Gerald Ford carrier strike group. They note this extraordinary accumulation of power is "orders of magnitude beyond" what is needed for stopping drug boats. The deployment conveys the "shadow of power" over the Maduro regime but raises serious concerns about constitutional war powers, high opportunity costs for US global security, and the risk of occupation similar to Iraq. 945-1000 Analysis of US Carrier Deployment to Venezuela: Overkill for Drug Ops, Risk of Intervention Guests: Brad Bowman, Cameron McMillan Brad Bowman and Cameron McMillan analyze the massive US military buildup near Venezuela, including the USS Gerald Ford carrier strike group. They note this extraordinary accumulation of power is "orders of magnitude beyond" what is needed for stopping drug boats. The deployment conveys the "shadow of power" over the Maduro regime but raises serious concerns about constitutional war powers, high opportunity costs for US global security, and the risk of occupation similar to Iraq. SECOND HOUR 10-1015 Diplomacy and Deterrence: Trump's Asia Success and the Venezuela Crisis Guest: Mary Kissel Mary Kissel reviews President Trump's successful engagement in Asia, including the ACEN conference where trade agreements and critical mineral investments were highlighted. She notes the strengthening US-Japanese partnership with Prime Minister Takayuki Sai, calling Japan the only significant military counterbalance to China in the region. Regarding the US carrier deployment near Venezuela, Kissel supports the use of deterrence but raises concerns about the legality of military strikes on alleged drug boats without a declaration of war. The political aim may be to empower Venezuelans to overthrow the Maduro regime. 1015-1030 Diplomacy and Deterrence: Trump's Asia Success and the Venezuela Crisis Guest: Mary Kissel Mary Kissel reviews President Trump's successful engagement in Asia, including the ACEN conference where trade agreements and critical mineral investments were highlighted. She notes the strengthening US-Japanese partnership with Prime Minister Takayuki Sai, calling Japan the only significant military counterbalance to China in the region. Regarding the US carrier deployment near Venezuela, Kissel supports the use of deterrence but raises concerns about the legality of military strikes on alleged drug boats without a declaration of war. The political aim may be to empower Venezuelans to overthrow the Maduro regime. 1030-1045 Canadian Media Airs Interview with Neo-Nazi-Associated Ukrainian Fighter Guest: Lev Golinkin Lev Golinkin discusses the scandal involving the Canadian Broadcasting Company, which interviewed a man associated with a neo-Nazi-led Ukrainian brigade who bore swastika tattoos. CBC subsequently blurred the symbols in the published footage. This incident reflects Canada's historical difficulty in addressing its harboring of former Nazi criminals, following the earlier scandal of Waffen SS member Ivan Hunka receiving an ovation in Parliament. Golinkin notes that while Nazi elements exist within Ukrainian forces, Russia exploits this fact for propaganda purposes to delegitimize Ukraine's struggle. 1045-1100 VCanadian Media Airs Interview with Neo-Nazi-Associated Ukrainian Fighter Guest: Lev Golinkin Lev Golinkin discusses the scandal involving the Canadian Broadcasting Company, which interviewed a man associated with a neo-Nazi-led Ukrainian brigade who bore swastika tattoos. CBC subsequently blurred the symbols in the published footage. This incident reflects Canada's historical difficulty in addressing its harboring of former Nazi criminals, following the earlier scandal of Waffen SS member Ivan Hunka receiving an ovation in Parliament. Golinkin notes that while Nazi elements exist within Ukrainian forces, Russia exploits this fact for propaganda purposes to delegitimize Ukraine's struggle.E THIRD HOUR 1100-1115 The Battle for Oceania: Remembering Daniel Suidani and Chinese Political Warfare Guest: Cleo Paskal Cleo Paskal discusses the death of Daniel Suidani, a leader from Malaita in the Solomon Islands who strongly resisted aggression from the Chinese Communist Party. Suidani's province instituted a moratorium on CCP-linked businesses. Paskal highlights how CCP proxies employed political warfare, financial pressure, and control over vital healthcare resources, such as the country's only functioning dialysis machine, to undermine him. This situation reflects broader CCP influence operations across the Indo-Pacific, including in US territories. 1115-1130 The Battle for Oceania: Remembering Daniel Suidani and Chinese Political Warfare Guest: Cleo Paskal Cleo Paskal discusses the death of Daniel Suidani, a leader from Malaita in the Solomon Islands who strongly resisted aggression from the Chinese Communist Party. Suidani's province instituted a moratorium on CCP-linked businesses. Paskal highlights how CCP proxies employed political warfare, financial pressure, and control over vital healthcare resources, such as the country's only functioning dialysis machine, to undermine him. This situation reflects broader CCP influence operations across the Indo-Pacific, including in US territories. 1130-1145 The Constitutional Authority to Deploy National Guard to Protect Federal Facilities Guest: Professor John Yoo Professor John Yoo discusses the President's inherent constitutional authority to use the National Guard to protect federal property and personnel during city disorder. Drawing on the In re Neagle case from 1890, Yoo confirms the federal government's right to use force to execute its functions on American soil. He argues that governors opposing deployment are resisting federal law enforcement, akin to segregationists resisting integration. Yoo clarifies that states can adopt "sanctuary" policies by choosing not to cooperate with federal law, but they cannot constitutionally impede federal agents from carrying out their duties. 1145-1200 The Constitutional Authority to Deploy National Guard to Protect Federal Facilities Guest: Professor John Yoo Professor John Yoo discusses the President's inherent constitutional authority to use the National Guard to protect federal property and personnel during city disorder. Drawing on the In re Neagle case from 1890, Yoo confirms the federal government's right to use force to execute its functions on American soil. He argues that governors opposing deployment are resisting federal law enforcement, akin to segregationists resisting integration. Yoo clarifies that states can adopt "sanctuary" policies by choosing not to cooperate with federal law, but they cannot constitutionally impede federal agents from carrying out their duties. FOURTH HOUR 12-1215 Global Commodities and UK Political Turmoil: Copper Prices Soar and Starmer's Tax U-Turn Guest: Simon Constable Simon Constable reports that copper prices are soaring to $5.18, up 20 percent, due to insufficient supply to meet demand from electric vehicles and artificial intelligence applications. In the United Kingdom, he notes Labour leader Keir Starmer reversed his tax pledge amidst poor productivity forecasts and failing reforms. Constable details the collapse of a high-profile China espionage case, possibly because UK espionage laws remain outdated from before World War I and China was not formally designated a hostile state at the time. He also highlights the troubling advice given by police to Israeli football fans to avoid attending a match due to safety concerns. 1215-1230 Global Commodities and UK Political Turmoil: Copper Prices Soar and Starmer's Tax U-Turn Guest: Simon Constable Simon Constable reports that copper prices are soaring to $5.18, up 20 percent, due to insufficient supply to meet demand from electric vehicles and artificial intelligence applications. In the United Kingdom, he notes Labour leader Keir Starmer reversed his tax pledge amidst poor productivity forecasts and failing reforms. Constable details the collapse of a high-profile China espionage case, possibly because UK espionage laws remain outdated from before World War I and China was not formally designated a hostile state at the time. He also highlights the troubling advice given by police to Israeli football fans to avoid attending a match due to safety concerns. 1230-1245 SpaceX Sets New Launch Records While NASA and Lunar Programs Face Delays Guest: Bob Zimmerman Bob Zimmerman discusses SpaceX setting a new record of 138 launches in one year, with Falcon 9 surpassing the total launches of the entire Space Shuttle fleet. This success is attributed to reusability, a concept NASA failed to implement profitably due to its government structure. Other topics include delays in the Griffin lunar lander, iSpace partnerships, Luxembourg's investment in space manufacturing, Russian claims about a nuclear-powered missile, and Japan's launch of an upgraded HTV cargo freighter. 1245-100 AM SpaceX Sets New Launch Records While NASA and Lunar Programs Face Delays Guest: Bob Zimmerman Bob Zimmerman discusses SpaceX setting a new record of 138 launches in one year, with Falcon 9 surpassing the total launches of the entire Space Shuttle fleet. This success is attributed to reusability, a concept NASA failed to implement profitably due to its government structure. Other topics include delays in the Griffin lunar lander, iSpace partnerships, Luxembourg's investment in space manufacturing, Russian claims about a nuclear-powered missile, and Japan's launch of an upgraded HTV cargo freighter.

SpaceX Sets New Launch Records While NASA and Lunar Programs Face Delays Guest: Bob Zimmerman Bob Zimmerman discusses SpaceX setting a new record of 138 launches in one year, with Falcon 9 surpassing the total launches of the entire Space Shuttle fleet. This success is attributed to reusability, a concept NASA failed to implement profitably due to its government structure. Other topics include delays in the Griffin lunar lander, iSpace partnerships, Luxembourg's investment in space manufacturing, Russian claims about a nuclear-powered missile, and Japan's launch of an upgraded HTV cargo freighter.

SpaceX Sets New Launch Records While NASA and Lunar Programs Face Delays Guest: Bob Zimmerman Bob Zimmerman discusses SpaceX setting a new record of 138 launches in one year, with Falcon 9 surpassing the total launches of the entire Space Shuttle fleet. This success is attributed to reusability, a concept NASA failed to implement profitably due to its government structure. Other topics include delays in the Griffin lunar lander, iSpace partnerships, Luxembourg's investment in space manufacturing, Russian claims about a nuclear-powered missile, and Japan's launch of an upgraded HTV cargo freighter.

At age seventy-seven, John Glenn became the oldest person to enter Earth orbit, and the only person to fly in both the Mercury and Space Shuttle programs.

In this episode of Crazy Wisdom, host Stewart Alsop talks with Richard Easton, co-author of GPS Declassified: From Smart Bombs to Smartphones, about the remarkable history behind the Global Positioning System and its ripple effects on technology, secrecy, and innovation. They trace the story from Roger Easton's early work on time navigation and atomic clocks to the 1973 approval of the GPS program, the Cold War's influence on satellite development, and how civilian and military interests shaped its evolution. The conversation also explores selective availability, the Gulf War, and how GPS paved the way for modern mapping tools like Google Maps and Waze, as well as broader questions about information, transparency, and the future of scientific innovation. Learn more about Richard Easton's work and explore early GPS documents at gpsdeclassified.com, or pick up his book GPS Declassified: From Smart Bombs to Smartphones.Check out this GPT we trained on the conversationTimestamps00:00 – Stewart Alsop introduces Richard Easton, who explains the origins of GPS, its 12-hour satellite orbits, and his father Roger Easton's early time navigation work.05:00 – Discussion on atomic clocks, the hydrogen maser, and how technological skepticism drove innovation toward the modern GPS system.10:00 – Miniaturization of receivers, the rise of smartphones as GPS devices, and early mapping tools like Google Maps and Waze.15:00 – The Apollo missions' computer systems and precision landings lead back to GPS development and the 1973 approval of the joint program office.20:00 – The Gulf War's use of GPS, selective availability, and how civilian receivers became vital for soldiers and surveyors.25:00 – Secrecy in satellite programs, from GRAB and POPPY to Eisenhower's caution after the U-2 incident, and the link between intelligence and innovation.30:00 – The myth of the Korean airliner sparking civilian GPS, Reagan's policy, and the importance of declassified documents.35:00 – Cold War espionage stories like Gordievsky's defection, the rise of surveillance, and early countermeasures to GPS jamming.40:00 – Selective availability ends in 2000, sparking geocaching and civilian boom, with GPS enabling agriculture and transport.45:00 – Conversation shifts to AI, deepfakes, and the reliability of digital history.50:00 – Reflections on big science, decentralization, and innovation funding from John Foster to SpaceX and Starlink.55:00 – Universities' bureaucratic bloat, the future of research education, and Richard's praise for the University of Chicago's BASIC program.Key InsightsGPS was born from competing visions within the U.S. military. Richard Easton explains that the Navy and Air Force each had different ideas for navigation satellites in the 1960s. The Navy wanted mid-Earth orbits with autonomous atomic clocks, while the Air Force preferred ground-controlled repeaters in geostationary orbit. The eventual compromise in 1973 created the modern GPS structure—24 satellites in six constellations—which balanced accuracy, independence, and resilience.Atomic clocks made global navigation possible. Roger Easton's early insight was that improving atomic clock precision would one day enable real-time positioning. The hydrogen maser, developed in 1960, became the breakthrough technology that made GPS feasible. This innovation turned a theoretical idea into a working global system and also advanced timekeeping for scientific and financial applications.Civilian access to GPS was always intended. Contrary to popular belief, GPS wasn't a military secret turned public after the Korean airliner tragedy in 1983. Civilian receivers, such as TI's 4100 model, were already available in 1981. Reagan's 1983 announcement merely reaffirmed an existing policy that GPS would serve both military and civilian users.The Gulf War proved GPS's strategic value. During the 1991 conflict, U.S. and coalition forces used mostly civilian receivers after the Pentagon lifted “selective availability,” which intentionally degraded accuracy. GPS allowed troops to coordinate movement and strikes even during sandstorms, changing modern warfare.Secrecy and innovation were deeply intertwined. Easton recounts how classified projects like GRAB and POPPY—satellites disguised as scientific missions—laid technical groundwork for navigation systems. The crossover between secret defense projects and public science fueled breakthroughs but also obscured credit and understanding.Ending selective availability unleashed global applications. When the distortion feature was turned off in May 2000, GPS accuracy improved instantly, leading to new industries—geocaching, precision agriculture, logistics, and smartphone navigation. This marked GPS's shift from a defense tool to an everyday utility.Innovation's future may rely on decentralization. Reflecting on his father's era and today's landscape, Easton argues that bureaucratic “big science” has grown sluggish. He sees promise in smaller, independent innovators—helped by AI, cheaper satellites, and private space ventures like SpaceX—continuing the cycle of technological transformation that GPS began.

This is part 2 of my wonderful conversation with Eileen Collins, retired U.S. Air Force colonel and first American woman commander of a space shuttle. In this episode, she discusses her leadership style, especially post-Columbia tragedy. Eileen also emphasizes the significance of setting personal mission statements, learning from mistakes, and staying focused despite external distractions. The episode concludes with practical advice for aspiring leaders, highlighting the value of reading, mentoring, and maintaining humility. Episode Minutes: Minute 1: Pursuing the Dream of Becoming an Astronaut Minute 5: Overcoming Self-Doubt and Finding Mentorship Minute 9: Adapting Leadership After the Columbia Tragedy Minute 14: Balancing Family and Astronaut Life Minute 18: The First American Woman to Command a Space Mission To find out more about my work, please visit www.danawilliamsco.com  My Book The Internal Revolution: Lead Authentically and Build Your Personal Brand from Within LinkedIn Instagram Email: hello@danawilliamsco.com The Strengths Journal™ is the only Gallup-certified, purpose-driven daily planner that helps you actively use your strengths to plan your days. Get Your copy here

STERNENGESCHICHTEN LIVE TOUR in D und Ö: Tickets unter https://sternengeschichten.live Eine Rakete startet mit einem Countdown. Aber warum eigentlich? Wozu braucht man das und warum muss man das so dramatisch machen? Alles zum Lift-Off erfahrt ihr in der neuen Folge der Sternengeschichten. Wer den Podcast finanziell unterstützen möchte, kann das hier tun: Mit PayPal (https://www.paypal.me/florianfreistetter), Patreon (https://www.patreon.com/sternengeschichten) oder Steady (https://steadyhq.com/sternengeschichten) Sternengeschichten-Hörbuch: https://www.penguin.de/buecher/florian-freistetter-sternengeschichten/hoerbuch-mp3-cd/9783844553062

A look at the crazy ferrite core density in the Ampex 1600 16k x 18 bit word magnetic core memory from Ampex Memory Products Division, used in the Mitra 125S computer for the Spacelab program on the Space Shuttle. 00:00 – Magnetic core memory 01:52 – How magnetic core memory works 07:12 – Ampex high …

In honor of National Space Week, we're excited to bring you part 1 of this two-part interview series with Eileen Collins, retired U.S. Air Force colonel and first American woman commander of a space shuttle. Our conversation dove deep into what it really takes to lead with authenticity, push through barriers, and stay focused on your personal mission, even when the odds are stacked against you. Eileen shared how embracing her true self — not trying to fit a mold or mimic others — helped her stand out and succeed in one of the most high-pressure careers imaginable. Eileen shares insights from her book, 'Through the Glass Ceiling to the Stars,' discussing authenticity, overcoming hurdles, and the importance of being true to oneself. She provides a detailed account of her internal journey, mentorship experiences, handling high-stress situations. To find out more about my work, please visit www.danawilliamsco.com My Book The Internal Revolution: Lead Authentically and Build Your Personal Brand from Within LinkedIn Instagram Email: hello@danawilliamsco.com The Strengths Journal™ is the only Gallup-certified, purpose-driven daily planner that helps you actively use your strengths to plan your days. Get Your copy here

On this Healthy Waves episode, host Avik digs into how aerospace-level problem-solving meets wellness tech. Guest Mark Fox (former Space Shuttle chief engineer, hot-air balloonist, and airplane builder) explains why he shifted from aircraft to energy-based wellness devices. We unpack what pulsed electromagnetic field (PEMF) and resonance-frequency approaches claim to do, how protocols are designed, portability and cost tradeoffs vs. legacy gear, and where AI-driven biometrics might steer the next decade. Direct, no fluff—just a clear look at what this tech promises, what users report, and what still needs rigorous proof for platforms like YouTube, Facebook, Instagram, and LinkedIn. About the guest  : Mark Fox is an aerospace engineer turned wellness tech founder at Resona Health (resona.health). Drawing on systems thinking (including TRIZ creative problem-solving), he designs portable, non-invasive devices intended to support general well-being through frequency-based protocols. Key takeaways: Why the pivot: engineering skills can transfer from avionics to wellness when the goal is simpler, more accessible tools for everyday use. Frequency-based view: the talk frames the body as chemical, mechanical, and electrical—arguing wellness tools shouldn't ignore bio-electromagnetic processes. How protocols are built: “frequency pairs” change over time like chords in a song; many protocols emerged from decades of practitioner iteration. Portability and access: a pocket device aims to make sessions simpler and more affordable than clinic-only mats or large systems. Reported use cases: the guest discusses user-reported improvements in stress, HRV, sleep, pain, and more—presented as claims and ongoing studies, not medical advice. Safety framing: energy level and frequency matter; the device output described is far below MRI fields, though MRI safety analogies should not be read as equivalence in efficacy. AI + biometrics: future direction includes watches, cloud trends, and automated recommendations—raising opportunities and the need for privacy and validation. Bottom line: intriguing engineering applied to wellness; further independent, peer-reviewed evidence is essential before making health decisions. Medical Disclaimer This content is for educational and informational purposes only and is not a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Always seek the guidance of your physician or other qualified health provider with any questions you may have regarding a medical condition, symptoms, or health objectives. Never disregard professional medical advice or delay seeking it because of something you heard in this episode or read in the show notes. Any products, devices, protocols, or practices discussed are presented as general wellness information only. They are not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease. Statements made by guests are their personal opinions and experiences and have not been evaluated by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) or other regulatory authorities. Results vary from person to person. If you are experiencing a medical emergency or mental health crisis, call your local emergency number immediately or contact your nearest crisis hotline. How to connect with the guest   Website: https://resona.health/ Email: info@resona.health Want to be a guest on Healthy Mind, Healthy Life? DM on PM - Send me a message on PodMatch DM Me Here: https://www.podmatch.com/hostdetailpreview/avik   Disclaimer: This video is for educational and informational purposes only. The views expressed are the personal opinions of the guest and do not reflect the views of the host or Healthy Mind By Avik™️. We do not intend to harm, defame, or discredit any person, organization, brand, product, country, or profession mentioned. All third-party media used remain the property of their respective owners and are used under fair use for informational purposes. By watching, you acknowledge and accept this disclaimer.   Healthy Mind By Avik™️ is a global platform redefining mental health as a necessity, not a luxury. Born during the pandemic, it's become a sanctuary for healing, growth, and mindful living. Hosted by Avik Chakraborty—storyteller, survivor, wellness advocate—this channel shares powerful podcasts and soul-nurturing conversations on: • Mental Health & Emotional Well-being• Mindfulness & Spiritual Growth• Holistic Healing & Conscious Living• Trauma Recovery & Self-Empowerment With over 4,400+ episodes and 168.4K+ global listeners, join us as we unite voices, break stigma, and build a world where every story matters.

Can Nasa build the most complex flying machine in space history? The plan is to create a permanent human presence in space.It's Spring 1969 - two months before the launch of Apollo 11 – the first US mission to land humans on the moon. But meanwhile, hidden away from public view, Nasa is thinking the unthinkable.This is the epic story of the space shuttle, a dream to make spaceflight routine. Told by the astronauts and team who made it happen.You can listen to episode 1 here. For more, search for 13 Minutes Presents: The Space Shuttle, wherever you get your BBC podcasts. This is a BBC Audio Science Unit production for the BBC World Service.Hosted by space scientist Maggie Aderin-Pocock.Theme music by Hans Zimmer and Christian Lundberg, and produced by Russell Emanuel, for Bleeding Fingers Music.Archive: Richard Nixon launches Nasa's space shuttle programme, CBS News, 1972 Mission audio and oral histories, Nasa History Office

John Young führte zu Lebzeiten komplexe Manöver mit den Gemini-Raumschiffen durch, landete mit Apollo auf dem Mond und flog zweimal den Spaceshuttle. Kein Astronaut hat die US-Raumfahrt so geprägt wie er. Young wurde vor 95 Jahren geboren. Lorenzen, Dirk www.deutschlandfunk.de, Sternzeit

About Dr. Laura Gallaher:Dr. Laura Gallaher is a professional speaker and organizational psychologist who inspires driven self-starters to transform their relationship with themselves and accomplish more than ever. She combines insights on radical self-acceptance with humor to create a unique connection with her audience. Despite being a national best-selling author, Dr. Laura stands out from the typical "academic" personality of her PhD peers. Her notable achievements include being hired by NASA to reshape organizational culture after the Columbia accident, leading significant changes in performance management at Disney, and inspiring Yahoo's global teams to pursue transformation from within. In this episode, Dean Newlund and Dr. Laura Gallaher discuss:NASA's organizational culture and its role in major space disastersThe importance of psychological safety in high-stakes environmentsThe conflict between intuition and evidence-based decision-makingLeadership blind spots, self-awareness, and radical self-acceptanceBuilding trust, collaboration, and vulnerability within teams Key Takeaways:NASA's culture contributed to the Columbia tragedy by discouraging engineers from voicing concerns without hard data.Congress required NASA to undergo a culture change initiative before allowing shuttle flights to resume, embedding organizational development permanently at Kennedy Space Center.Dr. Laura's personal 360-degree feedback revealed blind spots, such as unintentional “bullying intellectually,” which led her to embrace radical self-acceptance.Tools like collaboration contracts and vulnerability exercises helped leaders manage defensiveness, foster trust, and improve team dynamics. "When you have higher self acceptance, it creates a path for others to do the same… because when you have high self acceptance, you can be vulnerable… but vulnerability is courageous, and courage is contagious.” — Dr. Laura Gallaher Connect with Dr. Laura Gallaher:  Website: https://drlauragallaher.com/LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/laura-gallaher-phdInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/drlauragallaher/Discover Your Self-Acceptance Score: https://selfacceptancequiz.com/   See Dean's TedTalk “Why Business Needs Intuition” here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EEq9IYvgV7I Connect with Dean:YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCgqRK8GC8jBIFYPmECUCMkwWebsite: https://www.mfileadership.com/The Mission Statement E-Newsletter: https://www.mfileadership.com/blog/LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/deannewlund/X (Twitter): https://twitter.com/deannewlundFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/MissionFacilitators/Email: dean.newlund@mfileadership.comPhone: 1-800-926-7370 Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it.

The space shuttle is back. Discovery stands waiting on launchpad 39B at Kennedy Space Center. It has taken more than two years to get here. Nasa has listened and changed. After all these months of work, this should be one of the safest missions ever flown. But as Discovery finally rises skyward, the Challenger disaster is on everyone's mind. There are unspoken questions about the very future of spaceflight. Some scenes in this series use recreated sound effects.13 Minutes Presents: The Space Shuttle is a BBC Audio Science Unit production for the BBC World Service. Hosted by space scientist Maggie Aderin-Pocock.Theme music by Hans Zimmer and Christian Lundberg, and produced by Russell Emanuel, for Bleeding Fingers Music.Archive: Return to flight, Nasa Archives, 1988 Ronald Reagan speaks at STS-4 launch, Reagan Library, 1982 STS-26 coverage, CNN, CBS News, BBC, 1988 Mission audio and oral histories, Nasa History Office

Art Bell - Jim Bell - Renewable Energy - Ed Dames - The Space Shuttle

Nicole Stott had a remarkable career with NASA, logging more than 100 days in outer space.  Her time on the International Space Station drives her appreciation for the importance of cooperation across cultures and national boundaries.  On this Blue Sky episode, she describes lessons learned from her time as an astronaut, and the inspiring work she does today through the Space For Art Foundation, and her optimistic and solutions-oriented approach to life.    Chapters: 00:00 Introduction to Nicole Stott  This chapter introduces Nicole Stott, a retired NASA astronaut, aquanaut, engineer, artist, and author. It highlights her unique experiences as one of fewer than 600 people to have flown in space, her inspiration from her father, and her journey into aeronautical engineering after a personal tragedy.  03:42 From Tragedy to Astronaut  Nicole shares the profound impact of her father's tragic death in a plane crash on her career path, explaining how it fueled her desire to understand how things fly, leading to aeronautical engineering and eventually NASA. She also touches on her ‘aquanaut' experience, spending 18 days underwater as training for spaceflight.  12:07 The Power of Optimism in Space  Nicole discusses the ‘here's how we can' approach essential for space travel, contrasting it with pessimism, and emphasizing the importance of teamwork in an international setting. She details her missions on the Space Shuttle and International Space Station, highlighting the global collaboration required for such complex endeavors.  19:18 Earth as Spaceship, Us as Crewmates  Nicole reflects on the profound perspective gained from space, seeing Earth's thin atmosphere as a fragile ‘thin blue line' and the International Space Station's hull as a parallel. This realization fuels her belief that all humans are ‘crewmates' on ‘Spaceship Earth,' inspiring a collective mission to protect our planet.  27:01 Art, Space, and Healing  Nicole shares her passion for art, which developed from a young age and continued during her space missions, where she created the first watercolor painting in space. This passion led her to establish the Space for Art Foundation, which uses space-themed art therapy to inspire and unite children in pediatric hospitals and refugee centers worldwide.  34:38 The Future of Space and Humanity  Nicole discusses the current landscape of space exploration, including public-private partnerships with companies like SpaceX and Blue Origin, and the broader motivations behind these endeavors. She also highlights the ‘never underestimate the importance of bugs' principle, emphasizing that small individual actions can lead to significant planetary solutions.  45:12 Mars, The Moon, and Space Solar Power  Nicole addresses the potential for space-based solar power, highlighting its significant cost but comparing it to other large global expenditures. She concludes by expressing her optimism about humans landing on Mars within the next 30-50 years, with the Moon serving as a crucial steppingstone for this ambitious journey. 

Is human spaceflight worth the risk? It's a time of soul searching for the whole shuttle crew. The space shuttle programme is put on hold for two years, as Nasa and the team come to terms with what happened. Some leave but others stay on board to help. The shuttle team work to rebuild Nasa and the programme. But some ask the question: what is it all for? Some scenes in this series use recreated sound effects.13 Minutes Presents: The Space Shuttle is a BBC Audio Science Unit production for the BBC World Service. Hosted by space scientist Maggie Aderin-Pocock.Theme music by Hans Zimmer and Christian Lundberg, and produced by Russell Emanuel, for Bleeding Fingers Music.Archive: Birth of the space shuttle, Nasa Archives, 1972 Ronald Reagan addresses nation after STS-51-L accident, Reagan Library, 1986 Richard Nixon launches Nasa's space shuttle program, CBS News, 1972 STS-26 launch coverage, BBC, 1988 Mission audio and oral histories, Nasa History Office

The Challenger tragedy shocks a nation, as millions watch on TV screens across the USA. Something has gone catastrophically wrong with the launch of space shuttle mission STS-51L. As they watch a fireball engulf the spacecraft, nobody in mission control has any idea what went wrong. Could it have been prevented? We turn back the clock to a meeting the day before the launch which might have changed everything.This episode contains scenes some listeners may find upsetting.Some scenes in this series use recreated sound effects.13 Minutes Presents: The Space Shuttle is a BBC Audio Science Unit production for the BBC World Service. Hosted by space scientist Maggie Aderin-Pocock.Theme music by Hans Zimmer and Christian Lundberg, and produced by Russell Emanuel, for Bleeding Fingers Music.Archive: Ronald Reagan announces Roger Commission inquiry, Reagan Library, 1986 Roger Boisjoly, Larry Mulloy and Dr James Fletcher, statements to the Rogers Commission, 1986 Mission audio and oral histories, Nasa History Office

Welcome to The Pod Squad!We review podcasts every week so you always have something new to listen to.Newstalk's Jess Kelly and Neil Kavanagh join Andrea Gilligan to review ‘13 Minutes Presents: The Space Shuttle'!Image: BBC

Nasa needs to kick-start new interest in the space shuttle. After multiple missions, public attention is waning and funding could suffer. Nasa want to do something about it. And come up with an innovative plan.How about recruiting an astronaut from the classroom? The first teacher on a space mission. Nasa runs a competition, and the winner is Christa McAuliffe, a 36-year-old social studies teacher from New Hampshire. But has she got what it takes for the challenges of space?This episode contains scenes some listeners may find upsetting.Some scenes in this series use recreated sound effects.13 Minutes Presents: The Space Shuttle is a BBC Audio Science Unit production for the BBC World Service. Hosted by space scientist Maggie Aderin-Pocock.Theme music by Hans Zimmer and Christian Lundberg, and produced by Russell Emanuel, for Bleeding Fingers Music.Archive: Ronald Reagan announces teacher in space programme, Reagan Library, 1984 George Bush announces Christa McAuliffe as teacher in space, Reagan Archive, 1984 Teacher training KC-135 flight, Nasa Archives, 1985 Teachers watch launch, Nasa Archives, 1985 Pre-flight press conference STS-51-L, 1986 Mission audio and oral histories, Nasa History Office

Sandwiches hit different at zero gravity. While at NASA, Vickie Kloeris managed the food systems for the Space Shuttle and later the International Space Station. She joins host Sean Mobley to chat about the weirdness and wonderfulness of making a menu for astronauts. Full shownotes: https://blog.museumofflight.org/flightdeck/space-food-with-vickie-kloeris

Can the crew rescue the million-dollar space satellite lost in orbit? Two car-sized satellites, worth $75 million each, are stranded in space. Five astronauts have been selected to bring them back. It's something that has never been attempted before.In outer space, even the simplest of tasks can be a challenge, let alone trying to snatch a satellite from orbit. And right when the crew think they've got it all under control, they discover a problem they're not prepared for. It's time to improvise. This episode contains strong language. Some scenes in this series use recreated sound effects.13 Minutes Presents: The Space Shuttle is a BBC Audio Science Unit production for the BBC World Service. Hosted by space scientist Maggie Aderin-Pocock.Theme music by Hans Zimmer and Christian Lundberg, and produced by Russell Emanuel, for Bleeding Fingers Music.Archive: STS 41-B coverage, CBS News and KTRH News, 1984 STS-51-A coverage, CBS News, 1984 Lost in space, BBC, 1985. Ronald Reagan announces teacher in space programme, Reagan Library, 1984 Mission audio and oral histories, Nasa History Office

President Ronald Reagan declares the space shuttle open for business. It's Independence Day 1982. And we're in the sweltering Mojave desert of California. Carrying commercial satellites into orbit is one of the shuttle's jobs. But things start to go wrong for the astronauts when a $75-million satellite is lost in space. And that's just the start of a series of unfortunate events. Can they fix it and prove the space shuttle's worth?Some scenes in this series use recreated sound effects.13 Minutes Presents: The Space Shuttle is a BBC Audio Science Unit production for the BBC World Service. Hosted by space scientist Maggie Aderin-Pocock.Theme music by Hans Zimmer and Christian Lundberg, and produced by Russell Emanuel, for Bleeding Fingers Music.Archive: Ronald Reagan declares Space Shuttle open for business, Reagan Library, 1982 The story of satellite WESTAR 6 and Palapa, CBS News, 1986 STS 41-B coverage, CBS News and KTRH News, 1984 Mission audio and oral histories, Nasa History Office

Nasa recruits women and ethnic minorities for the first time to its astronaut class. In the beginning of American spaceflight, all astronauts selected for the programme came from the same background. They were all male, all white – all test pilots. But now, with a revolutionary new spacecraft, and changing views in society, Nasa needs to change. They're not just looking for people to pilot the shuttle, but engineers, scientists, and medical doctors. Can Nasa change its culture? This episode contains strong language. Some scenes in this series use recreated sound effects.13 Minutes Presents: The Space Shuttle is a BBC Audio Science Unit production for the BBC World Service. Hosted by space scientist Maggie Aderin-Pocock.Theme music by Hans Zimmer and Christian Lundberg, and produced by Russell Emanuel, for Bleeding Fingers Music.Archive: Mercury seven press conference, Nasa Archives, 1959 Nichelle Nichols Nasa advertisement, Nasa Archives, 1977 Where dreams come true, Nasa Archives, 1979 First female and African-American astronauts train at Nasa, ABC News, 1978 Ronald Reagan declares Space Shuttle open for business, Reagan Library, 1982 Sally Ride interview, ITN, 1983 Mission audio and oral histories, Nasa History Office

The epic space story of a sci-fi dream that changed spaceflight forever. Told by the Nasa astronauts and team who made it happen. Our multi-award-winning podcast is back, hosted by space scientist Maggie Aderin-Pocock. She tells the story of triumph and tragedy - of a dream that revolutionised modern space travel forever.You can listen to the trailer here. To hear episodes, search for 13 Minutes Presents: The Space Shuttle, wherever you get your BBC podcasts. 13 Minutes Presents: The Space Shuttle is a BBC Audio Science Unit production for the BBC World Service. Theme music by Hans Zimmer and Christian Lundberg, and produced by Russell Emanuel, for Bleeding Fingers Music. Archive: Mission audio and oral histories, Nasa History Office.

Columbia reaches orbit. But astronaut Bob Crippen discovers that the shuttle has been damaged – can he and John Young make it home safely? Parts of the heatshield to protect the shuttle from searing temperatures on re-entry to Earth have fallen off during the journey into space. This new heatshield has never been tested before in orbit. Could more tiles be missing?Some scenes in this series use recreated sound effects.13 Minutes Presents: The Space Shuttle is a BBC Audio Science Unit production for BBC World Service. Hosted by space scientist Maggie Aderin-Pocock.Theme music by Hans Zimmer and Christian Lundberg, and produced by Russell Emanuel, for Bleeding Fingers Music.Archive: Nichelle Nichols NASA advertisement, Nasa Archives, 1977 STS-1 Columbia landing sequence, ABC News, CBS News, 1981 Mission audio and oral histories, Nasa History Office

The epic space story of a sci-fi dream that changed spaceflight forever. Told by the Nasa astronauts and team who made it happen. Our multi-award-winning podcast is back, hosted by space scientist Maggie Aderin-Pocock. She tells the story of triumph and tragedy - of a dream that revolutionised modern space travel forever.You can listen to the trailer here. To hear episodes, search for 13 Minutes Presents: The Space Shuttle, wherever you get your BBC podcasts. 13 Minutes Presents: The Space Shuttle is a BBC Audio Science Unit production for the BBC World Service. Theme music by Hans Zimmer and Christian Lundberg, and produced by Russell Emanuel, for Bleeding Fingers Music. Archive: Mission audio and oral histories, Nasa History Office.

The epic space story of a sci-fi dream that changed spaceflight forever. Told by the Nasa astronauts and team who made it happen. Our multi-award-winning podcast is back, hosted by space scientist Maggie Aderin-Pocock. She tells the story of triumph and tragedy - of a dream that revolutionised modern space travel forever.You can listen to the trailer here. To hear episodes, search for 13 Minutes Presents: The Space Shuttle, wherever you get your BBC podcasts. 13 Minutes Presents: The Space Shuttle is a BBC Audio Science Unit production for the BBC World Service. Theme music by Hans Zimmer and Christian Lundberg, and produced by Russell Emanuel, for Bleeding Fingers Music. Archive: Mission audio and oral histories, Nasa History Office.

In 2012, following the end of the Space Transportation System program, NASA faced the monumental task of finding permanent homes for the three remaining Space Shuttle Orbiters—so that their incredible stories could be preserved and shared with the public. After a lengthy and sometimes contentious selection process, the three operational orbiters—Discovery, Atlantis, and Endeavour—along with the prototype Enterprise, were officially retired and transported to their new homes amid much celebration. These irreplaceable artifacts of American space history now serve as centerpieces in four major museums across the country, inspiring millions of visitors each year. One notable omission from the final list was Houston, Texas—home to NASA's Johnson Space Center. While the city did not receive one of the orbiters, it was awarded a Shuttle Carrier Aircraft and a full-scale model orbiter, which allows visitors to explore a replica of the Shuttle's interior. That should have been the end of the story—but it wasn't. In a surprising twist, Texas Senators John Cornyn and Ted Cruz inserted a provision into the recently passed Reconciliation Act, also known as “The Big Beautiful Bill Act" that calls for relocating Space Shuttle Discovery from its current home at the Smithsonian National Air and Space Museum's Steven F. Udvar-Hazy Center in Chantilly, Virginia, to Houston. Is this bold attempt at “Shuttle Rustling” even viable? To find out, we spoke with Joe Stief, the founder of Keep the Shuttle, a grassroots campaign working to prevent Discovery's relocation. We discuss his efforts, what's at stake, and the broader implications this move could have for the future of artifacts held by national museums. Host: Gene Mikulka  Guest: Joe Stief, KeepTheShuttle.org     

The astronauts count down to flying a brand-new spacecraft for the very first time. If they pull it off, they will earn a place in space history.The rocket is built. The astronauts are trained. Mission control is ready. Space Shuttle Columbia is about to attempt the unheard of. A crewed test flight. It's 12 April 1981. The morning of launch for the very first space shuttle mission. The shuttle is sitting on the launchpad at Kennedy Space Center in Florida. And strapped into their seats on the flight deck of orbiter Columbia are commander John Young and pilot Bob Crippen.Everyone at Nasa has been waiting almost a decade for this day. It's taken an army of designers, engineers, ground crew, flight controllers, and backroom staff to get to this point. To bring this vehicle to life. Will this new machine fly? This episode contains scenes some listeners may find upsetting.Some scenes in this series use recreated sound effects.13 Minutes Presents: The Space Shuttle is a BBC Audio Science Unit production for BBC World Service. Hosted by space scientist Maggie Aderin-Pocock.Theme music by Hans Zimmer and Christian Lundberg, and produced by Russell Emanuel, for Bleeding Fingers Music.Archive: Launch of STS-1, BBC, ABC News, CBS News, NBC News, 1981 Mission audio and oral histories, Nasa History Office

William ‘Bill' McArthur is a retired US Army Colonel, a former astronaut and a veteran of three Space Shuttle missions. He's now  the Chief Astronaut for Titans Space. Bill shares his story about his time in the astronaut office and how it has shaped his role as an advisor for Titans. You can connect with Bill on LinkedIn, and learn more about Titans Space on their website. Remember to leave us a 5-star rating and review in your favorite podcast app. Be sure to follow T-Minus on LinkedIn and Instagram. Want to hear your company in the show? You too can reach the most influential leaders and operators in the industry. Here's our media kit. Contact us at space@n2k.com to request more info. Want to join us for an interview? Please send your pitch to space-editor@n2k.com and include your name, affiliation, and topic proposal. T-Minus is a production of N2K Networks, your source for strategic workforce intelligence. © N2K Networks, Inc. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Can Nasa build the most complex flying machine in space history? The plan is to create a permanent human presence in space. It's Spring 1969 - two months before the launch of Apollo 11 – the first US mission to land humans on the moon. But meanwhile, hidden away from public view, Nasa is thinking the unthinkable. Maverick engineer Dr Max Faget is already a legend within Nasa. He's fascinated by what could be next for human spaceflight. In a backroom, of Building 36 at Johnson Space Center, he invites a handful of engineers to a meeting. One of them is Ivy Hooks, a mathematician and engineer. And one of the first female engineers at Nasa. Some scenes in this series use recreated sound effects.13 Minutes Presents: The Space Shuttle is a BBC Audio Science Unit production for BBC World Service.Hosted by space scientist Maggie Aderin-Pocock.Theme music by Hans Zimmer and Christian Lundberg, and produced by Russell Emanuel, for Bleeding Fingers Music.Archive: Richard Nixon launches Nasa's space shuttle programme, CBS News, 1972 Mission audio and oral histories, Nasa History Office

To launch like a rocket and land like a plane. The space shuttle: A sci-fi dream that became reality and changed spaceflight forever. Told by the Nasa astronauts, engineers, scientists and support staff who made it happen. Our multi award-winning podcast returns on 14 July 2025 with: 13 Minutes Presents: The Space Shuttle. Presented by space scientist Maggie Aderin-Pocock. She tells the story of triumph and tragedy, and the human story behind the technology and scientific endeavour. A BBC Audio Science Unit production for the BBC World Service. Season 3 theme music by Hans Zimmer and Christian Lundberg, and produced by Russell Emanuel, for Bleeding Fingers Music.Archive: Mission audio and oral histories, Nasa History Office.