Future Christian

What if Christian colleges—and churches—stopped being driven by fear? In this episode of the Future Christian Podcast, Loren sits down (literally, in person) with sociologist and Substack writer John Hawthorne to talk about his new book The Fearless Christian University. Drawing on nearly four decades in Christian higher education, John outlines why so many institutions have slipped into what Andy Crouch calls "zombie mode"—defined more by inertia than imagination. This conversation moves fluidly between Christian universities and local churches, asking critical questions about sustainability, fear-based culture wars, institutional loyalty, and what it looks like to center the real questions of a rising generation. Together, John and Loren explore: Why Christian institutions often default to fear and control What it means to be a “zombie institution”—and how to wake up How schools and churches can move from protecting tradition to cultivating belonging The importance of legitimizing doubt and centering student (or congregant) questions Whether it's possible to hold onto theological identity without gatekeeping How online church and online education can erode or support community Why belonging may need to come before belief John Hawthorne is a sociologist who spent nearly four decades in Christian higher education. He served as faculty member and academic administrator over the course of his career, spending time in five different Christian universities. He writes a Substack that often deals with issues in Christian higher education and has been regularly interviewed for Christianity Today, Religion News Service, Sojourners, Inside Higher Ed, and the Associated Press. His publications include A First Step into a Much Larger World: The Christian University and Beyond.   Mentioned Resources:

Can your church pay the bills and follow God's call with integrity? In this episode, Loren talks with stewardship educator and sustainability strategist Grace Duddy Pomroy about how churches can embrace bold, faithful financial models without compromising their mission. Grace offers insights drawn from her national research and latest book on reimagining how churches fund ministry—from sliding-scale rentals to community-rooted partnerships. Topics Explored: Why your mission must come before your money The spiritual practices that sustain long-term financial change How to rethink rent, real costs, and what generosity really looks like Why churches need to grieve the past to make room for the future A six-part “rocket ship” model for launching sustainable ideas The myth of quick fixes—and the value of faithful experimentation   Grace Duddy Pomroy is the Director of the Stewardship Leaders Program at Luther Seminary. She's a lay, millennial stewardship leader, speaker, and financial educator based in Allyn, WA. She is the co-author of the stewardship book, Embracing Stewardship: How to Put Stewardship at the Heart of Your Congregation's Life, as well as author of the free 2013 ELCA stewardship resource, “Stewards of God's Love.” Her latest book, Funding Forward: A Pathway to More Sustainable Models for Ministry, was just released September 2024. Grace is also a consultant with Relèven, a charitable organization that lovingly preserves, restores, and repurposes under-utilized churches into community hubs and affordable housing.   Mentioned Resources:

What if your church property wasn't a burden—but a blessing to your neighbors? In this episode, Loren talks with John Cleghorn about the growing movement of churches reimagining their buildings and land to address the affordable housing crisis. Drawing from firsthand experience and national trends, John explores how faith communities can embrace a new missional identity rooted in service, hospitality, and justice. Whether you're a pastor, denominational leader, or simply wondering what's next for the American church, this conversation offers both challenge and hope. This episode includes: How churches are transforming unused space into affordable housing The pastoral challenge of helping congregations grieve old models while embracing new vision Why engaging neighbors is essential before development The tension between mission and monetization What it means to be a church after Christendom—and why that might be good news   John Cleghorn became pastor of Caldwell Presbyterian in 2008 after 25 years in banking and journalism. He has served Caldwell as it rebounded from almost closing to become a vibrant, diverse, mission-driven congregation centered on the love and justice of Jesus Christ. His latest book, Building Belonging: The Church's Call to Create Community and House Our Neighbors, springs from his congregation's experience and his national research into the emerging movement of faith-based organizations building affordable housing on their property. Building Belonging blends theology and Bible study with case studies and lessons learned From the movement.  A native of Atlanta, he has lived in Charlotte since 1986 and has served on a wide array of non-profit agency boards in the religious and human services fields at the local and national levels. He is currently a board member of WFAE.  He is married to Kelly, a kindergarten teacher, and has two adult children. He holds a Doctorate in Ministry from Pittsburgh Theological Seminary, a Master of Divinity from Union Presbyterian Seminary and a Bachelor of Arts from Washington and Lee University. His first book, Resurrecting Church: Where Justice and Diversity Meet Radical Welcome and Healing Hope (Fortress Press), came out in 2020.    Mentioned Resources:

What if your church property wasn't a burden—but a blessing to your neighbors? In this episode, Loren talks with John Cleghorn about the growing movement of churches reimagining their buildings and land to address the affordable housing crisis. Drawing from firsthand experience and national trends, John explores how faith communities can embrace a new missional identity rooted in service, hospitality, and justice. Whether you're a pastor, denominational leader, or simply wondering what's next for the American church, this conversation offers both challenge and hope. This episode includes: How churches are transforming unused space into affordable housing The pastoral challenge of helping congregations grieve old models while embracing new vision Why engaging neighbors is essential before development The tension between mission and monetization What it means to be a church after Christendom—and why that might be good news   John Cleghorn became pastor of Caldwell Presbyterian in 2008 after 25 years in banking and journalism. He has served Caldwell as it rebounded from almost closing to become a vibrant, diverse, mission-driven congregation centered on the love and justice of Jesus Christ. His latest book, Building Belonging: The Church's Call to Create Community and House Our Neighbors, springs from his congregation's experience and his national research into the emerging movement of faith-based organizations building affordable housing on their property. Building Belonging blends theology and Bible study with case studies and lessons learned From the movement.  A native of Atlanta, he has lived in Charlotte since 1986 and has served on a wide array of non-profit agency boards in the religious and human services fields at the local and national levels. He is currently a board member of WFAE.  He is married to Kelly, a kindergarten teacher, and has two adult children. He holds a Doctorate in Ministry from Pittsburgh Theological Seminary, a Master of Divinity from Union Presbyterian Seminary and a Bachelor of Arts from Washington and Lee University. His first book, Resurrecting Church: Where Justice and Diversity Meet Radical Welcome and Healing Hope (Fortress Press), came out in 2020.    Mentioned Resources:

What if burnout isn't the end of your calling—but an invitation to reimagine it? In this episode, Loren talks with Dr. Arianna Molloy, author of Healthy Calling: From Toxic Burnout to Sustainable Work, about how our deepest exhaustion can reveal what matters most. Drawing from her own journey and years of research, Arianna offers insight for leaders, pastors, and anyone navigating seasons of vocational confusion, overwork, or transition. together, they explore how calling can be both sacred and slippery, why shame is often tied to burnout, and how to reclaim your purpose without clinging to a title.    This episode includes: The difference between a healthy calling and toxic burnout Why our job titles aren't our true identity What to do when you feel vocationally lost How rest and reflection help realign our sense of purpose Tools for reframing shame and rediscovering joy in your work   Arianna Molloy (PhD, University of Denver) is associate professor of organizational communication at Biola University. Her research focuses on meaningful work, work as a calling, and the connection between humility and burnout in the workplace. She is an award-winning scholar and educator who has published in the International Journal of Business Communication, Communication Studies, and Christianity Today. Arianna is also a consultant for organizations, business professionals, and ministries. Arianna and her husband, Allen, have one son and enjoy running half marathons, traveling the world, and drinking good coffee.   Mentioned Resources:

What happens when your most meaningful ministry happens through a smartphone screen?  In this episode, Loren Richmond Jr. welcomes Rev. Bethany Peerbolte—a self-described “TikTok Pastor” and the founding leader of Our Tapestry, a fully digital church community. With over 280,000 followers online, Bethany creates content that helps people declutter harmful theology, reimagine faith, and reconnect with a God of radical love—especially in places she calls “theological deserts.” She shares how a few youth group questions during the pandemic launched her into full-time digital ministry, why she prefers “decluttering” over “deconstruction,” and how online spaces can offer real spiritual care and community. From spiritual practices to algorithms, from internet trolls to worship on Discord, Bethany reveals the joys and challenges of doing church in a platform-driven world.   Topics Covered: How TikTok launched a movement of digital pastoral care What “decluttering faith” looks like in practice The role of dreams, labyrinths, and curiosity in spiritual growth Navigating social media algorithms and resisting rage-bait The promise and peril of building sacred spaces online Why progressive Christians need to speak louder online Rev. Bethany Peerbolte is the founding pastor of Our Tapestry. This community meets entirely in digital spaces and gathers to declutter faith from abusive theology. She also creates Christian content on TikTok seeking to meet younger generations where they scroll. The stories Rev. Bethany hears from her 286,000+ followers about how churches have treated them inspires her ministry. “The zip code someone lives in should not decide what kind of God they know. Everyone deserves access to the radical love of God.” You can follow @RevBethany on TikTok, Instagram, and YouTube and learn more at OurTapestry.Online.    Mentioned Resources:

Is progressive Christianity losing its soul by abandoning church, worship, and leadership? In this episode, Loren talks with Pastor Clint Schneckloth to explore why faith communities, worship, and theological grounding still matter in progressive spaces. Clint pushes back against the tendency to dismiss church as irrelevant or harmful, offering a vision for how ethical leadership, communal worship, and rooted faith can empower justice work rather than distract from it. He also introduces place-sharing as a model for mission and evangelism, showing how churches can engage their neighbors without compromising progressive values—or their faith commitments. In this episode, you'll hear: Why Clint wrote about Progressive Church instead of Progressive Christianity How worship fuels justice, rather than distracting from it The danger of abandoning theological foundations for the sake of inclusivity Reclaiming leadership: Ethical authority in progressive communities Place-sharing: A relational approach to mission and evangelism   Clint Schnekloth is pastor of Good Shepherd Lutheran Church in Fayetteville, Arkansas, a progressive church in the South. He is the founder of Canopy NWA (a refugee resettlement agency) and Queer Camp, and is the author of A Guidebook to Progressive Church. He blogs as Lutheran Confessions at Substack.   Mentioned Resources:

In this episode of the Future Christian podcast, hosts Martha and Loren engage in a personal check-in, discussing Loren's vocational transitions and the challenges of navigating ministry outside traditional roles. They then delve into the current state of Canada-US relations, exploring the emotional and economic implications of a perceived trade war. The conversation highlights the cultural identity of Canadians and the growing sense of national pride amidst external pressures, emphasizing the importance of recognizing diverse forms of ministry and leadership in a changing landscape. In this conversation, Martha and Loren explore the role of progressive Christianity in addressing contemporary political issues, the importance of empathy and mercy in sermons, and the challenges of navigating political sensitivities within congregations. They discuss the significance of music in fostering community and healing, the need for courage in leadership, and the importance of finding common ground across political divides. The conversation concludes with personal reflections on coping strategies and a shared prayer for unity and guidance.   Presenting Sponsor: Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.  Supporting Sponsors: Restore Clergy If you are clergy in need of tailored, professional support to help you manage the demands of ministry, Restore Clergy is for you! Kokoro  Join in for heartfelt journeys that challenges the way we see ourselves, each other, and the world we share.   Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer Dennis Sanders – Producer Alexander Lang - Production Assistant

What does it mean to be the church in anxious, divided times? Recorded in connection with the 2025 Remind & Renew Conference at Phillips Seminary, Loren Richmond Jr. sits down with Rev. Dr. Susan Diamond to explore how local congregations can become spaces of healing, clarity, and radical welcome. Drawing from her work with moral injury, healing circles, and the Soul Repair After Moral Injury podcast (co-hosted with Dr. Rita Nakashima Brock), Susan shares how churches can recover the spiritual practices that root us in love, courage, and compassion. From forming faith through daily practices to fostering political and theological diversity under a shared mission, she offers a powerful testimony of what it means to be the church for this moment. In this episode, you'll hear: What moral injury is and how it shows up in church, healthcare, and society How healing circles are transforming congregations from the inside out Why forming faith is essential before welcoming or serving others How to foster unity across political differences through mission clarity The role of spiritual direction and communal lament in healing A hopeful vision for the future of Christianity and leadership Rev. Dr. Susan Ward Diamond is the Lead Pastor of Florence Christian Church (Disciples of Christ) in Florence, Kentucky, where she has served since 2015.  Susan received her Bachelor of Arts degree from Texas Christian University, a Master of Divinity degree from Brite Divinity School, and a Doctor of Ministry degree from United Theological Seminary in Dayton, Ohio. Dr. Diamond has invested herself in ministry and mission through local, regional and general expressions of the Christian Church (Disciples of Christ) in the United States and Canada, throughout her 33 years of ordained ministry.  She has served on the regional boards of the Florida and Alabama-Northwest Florida regions, directed numerous youth camps and conferences, and served as a keynote speaker of retreats and assemblies around the country.  She has served her denomination as First Vice Moderator for the 2011-2013 biennium of the Christian Church (Disciples of Christ) in the United States and Canada. During her sabbatical in 2021, Dr. Diamond and Dr. Rita Nakashima Brock collaborated on a pastoral study grant funded by the Louisville Institute entitled Moral Injury: A Catalyst for Reform.  Following the study period, they have continued their work together to offer strategies to faith communities for providing support and healing for those suffering from moral distress and moral injury.  They have recently launched the podcast Soul Repair: After Moral Injury.  Susan and Rita are currently writing a book which they hope to publish soon. Mentioned Resources:

What if the church was never meant to be a waiting room for heaven—but a community that builds paradise now? Recorded live at Phillips Seminary during the 2025 Remind & Renew Conference, Loren Richmond Jr. sits down with Dr. Rita Nakashima Brock to reflect on the decline of religious institutions, the collapse of reliable media, and how early Christian communities cultivated paradise on earth—not just in theory, but through shared meals, practices, and mutual care. Drawing on her groundbreaking book Saving Paradise, Brock calls for a return to rituals that ground us in community, memory, and moral accountability. In this episode, you'll hear about: The origins and impact of moral injury in war and church settings Why wisdom cannot grow in isolation—and how loneliness undermines it The role of ritual in forming resilient, embodied communities of faith Early Christianity's focus on paradise in the here and now What Protestantism lost when it rejected communal, repetitive ritual A powerful critique of institutional silence, spiritual abuse, and the theology of “waiting for heaven” How the Eucharist once fed thousands—and why we need that vision again   Rita Nakashima Brock, Ph.D., has been Senior Vice President for Moral Injury Recovery Programs at Volunteers of America since 2017. An award-winning author, she is co-author of Saving Paradise: How Christianity Traded Love of This World for Crucifixion and Empire (2008). She held the Endowed Chair in the Humanities at Hamline University 1990-1997, then became Director of the Fellowship Program at the Radcliffe Institute for Advanced Study at Harvard University. From 2001-2002 she was a fellow at the Center for Values in Public Life at Harvard Divinity School. She co-founded the Soul Repair Center at Brite Divinity School in 2012 and directed it until 2017.   Presenting Sponsor: Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.  Supporting Sponsors: Restore Clergy If you are clergy in need of tailored, professional support to help you manage the demands of ministry, Restore Clergy is for you! Kokoro  Join in for heartfelt journeys that challenges the way we see ourselves, each other, and the world we share.   Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer Dennis Sanders – Producer Alexander Lang - Production Assistant

What if bivocational ministry isn't a compromise—but a key to the church's future? Kris Bentley joins Loren Richmond Jr. to explore the evolving landscape of bivocational ministry in today's church. Drawing on insights from her book Bivocational Ministry: Field Notes for Congregations and Ministers, Kris shares stories from over a decade of research and interviews with pastors and churches engaged in bivocational models. They unpack misconceptions around part-time and bivocational leadership, the surprising benefits of realigned congregational relationships, and how small churches can thrive with the resources they already have. Kris also offers thoughtful guidance for pastors navigating dual roles, denominations rethinking support structures, and seminaries designing education for a changing ministry future. In this episode, you'll learn: Why bivocational ministry is more than a financial necessity—and may be the future of pastoral leadership How redefining expectations can empower lay leaders and revitalize small congregations The difference between part-time, bivocational, and multivocational ministry models Practical tools for pastors and churches navigating role clarity and boundary-setting How seminaries and denominations can better support pastors in flexible ministry pathways   Rev. Dr. Kristen Bentley is an ordained minister with the Christian Church (Disciples of Christ). She has served in congregational ministry in the central Kentucky area for more than twenty years, sometimes in the role of a bivocational pastor. Prior to attending seminary, she worked in higher education administration, serving at both Midway College (now Midway University) and the University of Kentucky. Since 2014 Kris has been working at Lexington Theological Seminary (LTS), beginning when LTS was awarded a grant by Lilly Endowment Inc. as part of its Economic Challenges Facing Future Ministers (ECFFM). She was hired to direct the grant project and as part of that work, Kris initiated research at LTS regarding bivocational ministry. The research concerning bivocational ministry has been supported at LTS through grants from Lilly Endowment Inc., including both Lilly's ECFFM Initiative and later the Thriving in Ministry Initiative. Currently, Kris also is serving as an interim minister of a Disciples of Christ congregation in Kentucky. Kris is an alum of Lexington Theological Seminary, holding a D. Min. (2020) and M.Div. degree (1997) from LTS, as well as a M.S. in Education (1981) from Indiana University, and a B.A. (1979) from the University of Kentucky.  Kris and her husband, Perry, live in the Lexington area.  They have four adult children and three grandchildren.   Relevant Links: Lexington Theological Seminary: https://lextheo.edu/ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/kristen.p.bentley LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kristen-bentley-20a60b65/ Chalice Press: https://chalicepress.com/products/bivocational-ministry-field-notes-for-congregations-and-ministers?_pos=2&_sid=0718b64df&_ss=r   Eric Hoke: https://www.podbean.com/eas/pb-wbbf2-1412bed Jeffrey MacDonald: https://www.podbean.com/eas/pb-vu5iw-126b98d     Presenting Sponsor: Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.  Supporting Sponsors: Restore Clergy If you are clergy in need of tailored, professional support to help you manage the demands of ministry, Restore Clergy is for you! Kokoro  Join in for heartfelt journeys that challenges the way we see ourselves, each other, and the world we share.   Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer Dennis Sanders – Producer Alexander Lang - Production Assistant

In this powerful and deeply personal conversation, Martha Tatarnic talks with Kyle Norman about his latest book, Alive, Loved, and Free, which explores what it means to hold on to faith in the face of spiritual discouragement, suffering, and doubt. Drawing from his own experience as a priest and caregiver during his wife's cancer treatment, Kyle shares how this painful journey reshaped his understanding of ministry, prayer, and God's presence. Together, they discuss Kyle's journey in ministry and his role as Dean in the Anglican Church of Canada, the power of the Daily Office and morning prayer, and the spiritual pitfalls many Christians face—feelings of unworthiness, struggling to pray, and wrestling with belief. The conversation explores the silence of God in suffering and the presence that often meets us instead, how church leaders can model honest vulnerability, and why doubt is not a disqualifier for faith. Kyle offers practical insights on forgiveness, feeling God's love, and navigating big spiritual questions, while also sharing his hopes for the future of vibrant, small, and grace-filled Christian communities. Reverend Kyle Norman is a priest, author, and speaker.  Kyle holds Bachelor's degree in Philosophy, a Masters in Divinity, and a Doctorate in Spiritual Formation. He currently live in Kamloops British Columbia with his wife and son. Currently, Kyle is the Rector of St. Paul's Cathedral and Dean of the Territory of the People. Kyle is also the Author of “Alive, Loved, & Free: Finding Jesus when Faith is Hard” which tackles the tricky issue of feeling discouraged in our faith.   Relevant Links Website: www.revkylenorman.ca Facebook: facebook.com/ReverendKyleNorman Instagram @reverend.kyle.norman   Presenting Sponsor: Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.  Supporting Sponsors: Restore Clergy If you are clergy in need of tailored, professional support to help you manage the demands of ministry, Restore Clergy is for you! Kokoro  Join in for heartfelt journeys that challenges the way we see ourselves, each other, and the world we share.   Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer Dennis Sanders – Producer Alexander Lang - Production Assistant

In this episode, Martha Tatarnic talks with Rev. Ben Crosby to explore the state of the mainline church, the challenges of evangelism, and the role of discipleship in church renewal. Ben shares his reflections on church growth, social justice, and spiritual formation. Their conversation delves into the decline of the Anglican Church of Canada, the significance of church attendance numbers for evangelism, and the tension between progressive theology and traditional discipleship. They also discuss overcoming the reluctance to talk about evangelism in mainline circles, the transformative role of the Daily Office in spiritual life, and practical steps for revitalizing church communities. Finally, Ben reflects on what he would prioritize if he were leading a mainline denomination, offering thoughtful perspectives on the church's future in an era of significant change. The Rev. Ben Crosby is a priest of the Episcopal Church (USA) currently serving in the Anglican Church of Canada. He is also a PhD student in ecclesiastical history at McGill University, where he studies the English Reformation. Ben is passionate about church renewal in the contemporary mainline, Christian discipleship and spirituality, and what the Christian past (especially the sixteenth century) might have to say about Christian life today. He has been published in Plough, The Anglican Way, Earth & Altar, The Hour, and Faith+Lead. You can read more at bencrosby.substack.com.    Relevant Links Mike Cosper episode: https://www.podbean.com/eas/pb-2m9ra-176f33e Andrew Root episode: https://www.podbean.com/eas/pb-jtzdu-1500e5e Lyons on Try Tank Podcast: https://share.transistor.fm/s/2983acab   Presenting Sponsor: Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.  Supporting Sponsors: Restore Clergy If you are clergy in need of tailored, professional support to help you manage the demands of ministry, Restore Clergy is for you! Kokoro  Join in for heartfelt journeys that challenges the way we see ourselves, each other, and the world we share.   Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer Dennis Sanders – Producer Alexander Lang - Production Assistant

Do churches need to be more exclusive? For years, both Evangelical and Progressive churches have lowered expectations to get people in the door. In this episode, Loren Richmond Jr. talks with Dr. Tricia Lyons, a leader in evangelism at Virginia Theological Seminary, about why churches should raise the bar to reclaim a compelling, transformative vision for sharing the gospel. Dr. Lyons challenges seeker-sensitive and all-are-welcome models, questioning whether they truly form disciples. Instead, she advocates for a high-bar Christianity—one that calls people into deep commitment rather than passive inclusion. The conversation explores church decline, the limits of hospitality, the power of formation, and why high expectations create stronger faith communities. Dr. Lyons currently teaches evangelism, works with the Lifelong Learning team, and serves as the Senior Advisor to the Dean for Evangelism Initiatives at VTS. She also directs the EvangelismFormationLab@VTS, a digital portal on YouTube and Facebook offering original content from the Seminary as well as thoughtful curation of resources in evangelism and formation for the wider church. Dr. Lyons was a lay chaplain and teacher of religion in Episcopal schools for 20 years before being ordained a priest and then serving parishes in Washington, DC, eventually serving as Canon for Evangelism in the Episcopal Diocese of Washington. Currently, Tricia serves as a non-stipendiary priest at the Church of Saint Clement in Alexandria, VA. Tricia is a member of the Presiding Bishop's Strategic Cabinet on Evangelism and one of the original writers of the “Way of Love.” Tricia is an honors graduate from Harvard College, the Harvard Divinity School, and received her doctorate from the Virginia Theological Seminary. She is the author of four books on faith formation, The Soul of Adolescence, Teaching Faith with Harry Potter, What is Evangelism? and her most recent, The Evangelist's Breviary.   Relevant Links  Mike Cosper episode: https://www.podbean.com/eas/pb-2m9ra-176f33e Andrew Root episode: https://www.podbean.com/eas/pb-jtzdu-1500e5e Lyons on Try Tank Podcast: https://share.transistor.fm/s/2983acab   Presenting Sponsor: Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.  Supporting Sponsors: Restore Clergy If you are clergy in need of tailored, professional support to help you manage the demands of ministry, Restore Clergy is for you! Kokoro  Join in for heartfelt journeys that challenges the way we see ourselves, each other, and the world we share.   Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer Dennis Sanders – Producer Alexander Lang - Production Assistant  

What is the church, and what is it for? In this episode, Loren Richmond Jr. talks with Rev. Dr. David Emerton to explore the purpose of the church, how different theological traditions define its role, and why these definitions matter for shaping the church's future. David shares insights on why many churches are caught in cycles of inertia or panic in response to decline, how our implicit assumptions about the church shape ministry practices, and why understanding ecclesiology is essential for church leaders today. The conversation also touches on theological education, the role of tradition, and how the church can remain faithful in a changing world. David Emerton (PhD, University of Aberdeen) is director of St. Mellitus College, East Midlands, United Kingdom. He previously served as principal of the School of Discipleship in the Diocese of Southwell and Nottingham and as a teaching fellow in systematic and historical theology at the University of Aberdeen. David is ordained as priest in the Church of England and prior to his training for ordination he worked in the City of London as a solicitor. He is the author of God's Church Community: The Ecclesiology of Dietrich Bonhoeffer and Types of Ecclesiology: Five Theological Approaches.   Relevant Links & Episodes https://stmellitus.ac.uk  https://stmellitus.ac.uk/staff/david-emerton.  https://www.linkedin.com/in/david-emerton-950444159 Justin Anthony - https://www.podbean.com/eas/pb-cjrug-1541ed0 Alison Milbank - https://www.podbean.com/eas/pb-ggj6t-166b3b9 Natalie Wigg-Stevenson - https://www.podbean.com/eas/pb-4e8jr-ef1bbc     Presenting Sponsor: Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.  Supporting Sponsors: Restore Clergy If you are clergy in need of tailored, professional support to help you manage the demands of ministry, Restore Clergy is for you! Kokoro  Join in for heartfelt journeys that challenges the way we see ourselves, each other, and the world we share.   Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer Dennis Sanders – Producer Alexander Lang - Production Assistant

What does it mean to move beyond awareness and into action? In this episode, Loren Richmond Jr. sits down with Michelle Ferrigno Warren, author, activist, and faith-rooted organizer, to discuss what it takes to engage in meaningful justice work. Michelle shares her journey from growing up in a fundamentalist Christian environment to becoming a public theologian and advocate for community development and justice. She discusses the importance of proximity in transforming perspectives, why churches often struggle with moving from mercy to justice, and how pastors can engage in advocacy while navigating political and institutional pressures. The conversation also delves into the intersection of faith and immigration, the role of public discipleship in shaping Christian witness, and the challenges of engaging a younger generation disillusioned with the church's response to injustice. Michelle Ferrigno Warren is the President of Virago Strategies, a consulting group which provides strategic engagement and project management support for churches and non-profits stepping more deeply into the work of public justice. She has been working in Christian community development for over 30 years utilizing her skills as an educator, worship leader, non-profit manager, public policy specialist & faith-rooted organizer & activist. She is an adjunct professor at Denver Seminary and a Senior Fellow with The Dietrich Bonhoeffer Institute. She is a fierce advocate for justice and has shared much of her journey toward civic engagement and activism in her books, The Power of Proximity, Moving Beyond Awareness to Action, IVP 2017 and Join the Resistance, Step Into the Good Work of Kingdom Justice IVP, 2022.   Presenting Sponsor: Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.  Supporting Sponsors: Restore Clergy If you are clergy in need of tailored, professional support to help you manage the demands of ministry, Restore Clergy is for you! Kokoro  Join in for heartfelt journeys that challenges the way we see ourselves, each other, and the world we share.   Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer Dennis Sanders – Producer Alexander Lang - Production Assistant

What does it mean to lead in weakness rather than strength? In this episode, Loren Richmond Jr. talks with Rev. Dr. Andrew Draper, co-author of Disabling Leadership: A Practical Theology for the Broken Body of Christ. Together, they explore how the church can redefine leadership away from power, charisma, and productivity toward humility, inclusion, and community-driven authority. Andrew shares insights from his work in disability theology, church leadership, and reconciliation, discussing how leadership must embrace human limitation and interdependence rather than seeking control or dominance. They also dive into the challenges of deconstruction and critical theory, why Christian nationalism and secular humanism are both flawed responses to uncertainty, and how churches can better align their practices with their values of inclusion. Rev. Dr. Andrew T. Draper is the Executive Director of Winebrenner Theological Seminary in Findlay, OH. He is also teaching pastor at Urban Light Community Church in Muncie, IN. He has authored numerous books and articles on race, disability, and the church. Dr. Draper holds a PhD in theological ethics from the University of Aberdeen and an MDiv from Winebrenner Theological Seminary.   Relevant Links: www.AndrewTDraper.com www.UrbanLightMuncie.com www.facebook.com/AndrewThomasDraper    Presenting Sponsor: Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.  Supporting Sponsors: Restore Clergy If you are clergy in need of tailored, professional support to help you manage the demands of ministry, Restore Clergy is for you! Kokoro  Join in for heartfelt journeys that challenges the way we see ourselves, each other, and the world we share.   Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer Dennis Sanders – Producer Alexander Lang - Production Assistant  

How can churches truly become spaces for everyone? In this episode, Loren Richmond Jr. talks with Dan Kreiss and Ephraim Smith, co-authors of Church for Everyone: Building a Multi-Inclusive Community for Emerging Generations. Together, they explore how churches can move beyond silos of race, class, and ideology to truly reflect the diverse body of Christ. Dan and Ephraim discuss the shift from attractional mega-church models to localized, neighborhood-based faith communities, the growing need for multi-ethnic and multi-generational churches, and why the church should lead the way in reconciliation rather than follow secular models of inclusion. They also examine the tension between church as an institution vs. church as a gathered community and how leaders can navigate these complexities while engaging younger generations.   Dan Kreiss (DMin, George Fox University) is the associate minister for mission and community outreach at Roswell Presbyterian Church in the greater Atlanta area. He was previously professor of youth ministry and dean of the School of Missions at King University in Bristol, Tennessee. Efrem Smith (DMin, Fuller Theological Seminary) is the colead pastor of Midtown Church, a thriving multiethnic community in Sacramento, California. His books include Raising Up Young Heroes and The Post-Black and Post-White Church. Learn more about Efrem and read his blog at influentalglobal.com. Follow him on X: @efremsmith.   Episodes Referenced: Walter Strickland: https://www.podbean.com/eas/pb-zmhss-174b7a6 Brian Davis: https://www.podbean.com/eas/pb-jd4vj-172854c   Presenting Sponsor: Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.  Supporting Sponsors: Restore Clergy If you are clergy in need of tailored, professional support to help you manage the demands of ministry, Restore Clergy is for you! Kokoro  Join in for heartfelt journeys that challenges the way we see ourselves, each other, and the world we share.   Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer Dennis Sanders – Producer Alexander Lang - Production Assistant

How can churches navigate change and uncertainty with creativity and resilience? In this episode,  Dustin Benac shares insights from his research in the Pacific Northwest, where faith communities are experimenting with new organizational models in response to the decline of traditional church structures. Together, they explore themes of collaboration, authority, and innovation, discussing how faith communities can remain rooted in tradition while adapting to a rapidly shifting landscape. Dustin introduces the concept of "hubs"—new forms of church organization that connect congregations, nonprofits, and faith leaders in dynamic networks. He also reflects on how authority is shifting from institutional hierarchy to relational trust and local leadership, offering a hopeful vision for the future of faith. Dustin D. Benac, ThD, is an educator, practical theologian and organizational strategist. He teaches at Baylor University's George W. Truett Theological Seminary as the Co-Founding Director for the Program for the Future Church. He has supported and studied communities of faith who are navigating transition and uncertainty across North America. Prior to his appointment at Baylor, Dustin was a Postdoctoral Associate with Kate Bowler and the Everything Happens Project at Duke University. Dustin is the author or editor of multiple books and articles. His latest book, Adaptive Church: Collaboration and Community in a Changing World, explores what it takes for communities of faith to navigate organizational change. He is the co-editor of Crisis and Care: Meditations on Faith and Philanthropy and the Editor of Practical Theology, an international and interdisciplinary journal. His writing has been published by Faith & Leadership, Christianity Today, The World Council of Churches, Ecclesial Futures. An accomplished speaker, teacher, and fundraiser, he has worked with congregations and researchers across Canada, the United Kingdom, New Zealand, and the United States. He is a graduate of Duke University, with Doctor of Theology (ThD) and Master of Divinity (MDiv) degrees, and Whitworth University. Dustin lives in Waco, TX with his wife, Casey, their three kids, and a lab, Lila. To join the conversation, go to dustindbenac.com or follow him on Twitter @dustindbenac.   Adaptive Church: https://www.baylorpress.com/9781481317085/adaptive-church/ Discount code is 17Fall24 for 20% off + free shipping Program for the Future Church's Impact Report: https://truettseminary.baylor.edu/sites/g/files/ecbvkj631/files/2025-01/PFFC%20Impact%20Report%20Final.pdf   X: https://x.com/dustindbenac?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/dustindbenac/ Threads: https://www.threads.net/@dustindbenac LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dustin-benac-22069127/ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/dustin.benac/ Website: https://www.dustindbenac.com/   Episodes Referenced: Ted Smith https://www.podbean.com/eas/pb-w4nrb-15d747b Scott Thumma https://www.podbean.com/eas/pb-44b9y-154b15b Justin Anthony: https://www.podbean.com/eas/pb-cjrug-1541ed0   Presenting Sponsor: Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.  Supporting Sponsors: Restore Clergy If you are clergy in need of tailored, professional support to help you manage the demands of ministry, Restore Clergy is for you! Kokoro  Join in for heartfelt journeys that challenges the way we see ourselves, each other, and the world we share.   Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer Dennis Sanders – Producer Alexander Lang - Production Assistant

How does the way we use our bodies shape our faith? In this episode, Loren Richmond Jr. talks with W. David O. Taylor, Associate Professor of Theology and Culture at Fuller Theological Seminary and author of A Body of Praise: Understanding the Role of Our Physical Bodies in Worship. David shares insights into the importance of physicality in worship, the role of space and posture, and how these practices can deeply shape spiritual formation. David discusses the impact of the pandemic on worship practices, the theological implications of our physical expressions, and the ways worship spaces and rituals influence how we encounter God. Loren and David also explore cultural attitudes toward the body, masculinity, and how we are called to use our bodies as instruments of care, connection, and worship. David O. Taylor is Associate Professor of Theology and Culture at Fuller Theological Seminary and the author of several books, including Prayers for the Pilgrimage (IVP, 2024), A Body of Praise (Baker Academic, 2023), Open and Unafraid (Thomas Nelson/HarperCollins, 2020), Glimpses of the New Creation (Eerdmans, 2019), and The Theater of God's Glory(Eerdmans, 2017). In addition to a range of scholarly and popular essays, he has also edited several books, including The Art of New Creation(IVP Academic, 2022), Contemporary Art and the Church (IVP Academic, 2017), and For the Beauty of the Church: Casting a Vision for the Arts (Baker Books, 2010).  He serves on the advisory board for Duke Initiatives in Theology and the Arts as well as IVP Academic's series, “Studies in Theology and the Arts.” An ordained priest, he has lectured widely on the arts, from Thailand to South Africa. In 2016 he produced a short film on the psalms with Bono and Eugene Peterson. He lives in Austin, Texas, with his children and artist wife, Phaedra, with whom he has produced three sets of illustrated prayer cards (here, here, and here). He can be found online on Twitter: @wdavidotaylor; IG: @davidtaylor_theologian; and his personal website, www.wdavidotaylor.com.   Episodes Referenced: J. Michael Jordan: https://futurechristian.podbean.com/e/worship-in-an-age-of-anxiety-with-j-michael-jordan/ Andrew Root: https://futurechristian.podbean.com/e/rooted/   Presenting Sponsor: Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.  Supporting Sponsors: Restore Clergy If you are clergy in need of tailored, professional support to help you manage the demands of ministry, Restore Clergy is for you! Kokoro  Join in for heartfelt journeys that challenges the way we see ourselves, each other, and the world we share.   Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer Dennis Sanders – Producer Alexander Lang - Production Assistant

What does it mean to be a professional Christian? In this episode of the Future Christian Podcast, Loren Richmond Jr. welcomes Dr. Sarah Bereza, a church musician, theologian, and author of Professional Christian: Being Fully Yourself in the Spotlight of Public Ministry. They discuss Sarah's journey from a fundamentalist Baptist upbringing to her current role as a progressive Christian and musician in mainline churches. The conversation explores the complexities of being a "professional Christian"—where your livelihood is tied to your faith—and the challenges of authenticity, power dynamics, and leadership in ministry. Sarah shares insights on navigating purity culture, the pressures of public ministry, and how leaders can balance personal integrity with professional responsibilities. They also delve into the power of music in worship and the importance of fostering community within and beyond church walls. Sarah Bereza holds a PhD and a Certificate in Feminist Theory from Duke University and has focused her research on music and theology in American Christianity. She is the author of Professional Christian: Being Fully Yourself in the Spotlight of Public Ministry (Westminster John Knox Press: 2022). Sarah is a lifelong church musician and currently serves as the Director of Music at Grace United Methodist Church in St. Louis, MO. She shares resources including a newsletter at sarah-bereza.com.    Relevant Links: Sarah-bereza.com https://sarahbereza.substack.com   Presenting Sponsor: Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.  Supporting Sponsors: Restore Clergy If you are clergy in need of tailored, professional support to help you manage the demands of ministry, Restore Clergy is for you! Kokoro  Join in for heartfelt journeys that challenges the way we see ourselves, each other, and the world we share.   Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer Dennis Sanders – Producer Alexander Lang - Production Assistant

What role should the church play in today's polarized political landscape? In this episode of the Future Christian Podcast, Martha Tatarnic hosts a roundtable with Loren Richmond Jr., Larry Lin, and Dennis Sanders to explore the intersection of faith and politics. Together, they tackle challenging questions about political engagement, the church's responsibility to marginalized communities, and navigating conversations with those who hold differing views. Topics include the Christian response to polarization, the role of prayer and discernment in political dialogue, and how churches can foster spaces for meaningful connection across ideological divides. They also reflect on the dangers of disengagement, the power of narrative to inspire hope, and the church's unique opportunity to model Christ-like love in contentious times. Larry Lin was born and raised in San Jose, California, and he has degrees from Cornell University and Southern Baptist Theological Seminary. Larry has been a pastor for 10 years, and he currently serves as a pastor at Grace Life Church, a non-denominational church in the Baltimore area. Previously, Larry worked for a college ministry in the Washington, D.C. area, as well as for a non-profit called the One America Movement, equipping faith leaders with resources on toxic polarization. Larry enjoys writing about church and politics, doing deep dives on Wikipedia, and making music. Larry lives with his wife and two children in the Mount Washington neighborhood of Baltimore. Dennis Sanders is a Michigan native, a lover of the Detroit Lions and Michigan State Spartans and an ordained minister in the Christian Church (Disciples of Christ). He has degrees from Michigan State University and Luther Seminary. Dennis is currently pastor at First Christian Church in St. Paul, Minnesota and the host of the Church and Main podcast.  He lives in Minneapolis with his husband Daniel.   Relevant Links: https://churchandmain.org/: Church and Main Podcast https://thestateoftheology.com/ - Resource mentioned in the episode    Presenting Sponsor: Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.  Supporting Sponsors: Restore Clergy If you are clergy in need of tailored, professional support to help you manage the demands of ministry, Restore Clergy is for you!   Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer Dennis Sanders – Producer Alexander Lang - Production Assistant

What can musical theatre teach us about faith and leadership? In this episode of the Future Christian Podcast, Martha Tatarnic sits down with the Very Reverend Peter Elliott, a retired Anglican priest, former dean of Christ Church Cathedral in Vancouver, and co-host of The Gospel of Musical Theatre. Dean Elliott shares his journey in ministry, offering insights on Christian leadership, the transformative role of music in worship, and adapting to the challenges of a declining institutional church. Highlights include Peter's experiences with LGBTQ+ inclusion in the Anglican Church, his passion for coaching clergy, and his unique perspective on how musicals like Oklahoma! and My Fair Lady reveal gospel truths and social critiques. Peter Elliott is a priest of the Anglican Church of Canada.  Hailing from the Niagara Region of southern Ontario, his ministry has included leadership within the Anglican communion for the full inclusion of LGBTQ people and strong advocacy for a spirituality that promotes social and environmental justice.  Over his 40+ years in ordained ministry Peter has served in senior positions internationally and nationally within the Anglican Church.  A long-time resident of Vancouver, British Columbia, Peter was Dean of Christ Church Cathedral (1994-2019) and currently is a coach and consultant in private practice.   He is a featured writer on arts and culture in the Anglican Journal-the national newspaper of the Anglican Church of Canada and has enjoyed working with the former Dean of Portland, Oregon, the Very Rev. Nathan LeRud as co-host of the podcast The Gospel and Musical Theatre.  Peter's husband Thomas Roach is an artist working primarily in textiles. Relevant Links: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Elliott_(Canadian_priest) - Peter has his own Wikipedia page! https://www.echostories.com/peter-elliott-good-ancestors/ https://www.vancouverfoundation.ca/detail/peter-elliott/ https://gospelofmt.podbean.com - His podcast!   Presenting Sponsor: Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.  Supporting Sponsors: Restore Clergy If you are clergy in need of tailored, professional support to help you manage the demands of ministry, Restore Clergy is for you!   Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer Dennis Sanders – Producer Alexander Lang - Production Assistant

What does it mean to be faithful and creative in a world shaped by crisis? In this episode of the Future Christian Podcast, Martha Tatarnic welcomes the Reverend Dr. Jesse Zink, an Anglican priest, theologian, and author. Dr. Zink discusses his latest book, Faithful, Creative, Hopeful: 15 Theses for Christians in a Crisis-Shaped World, exploring how the church can navigate and respond to global and local crises with faith, creativity, and resilience. The conversation delves into themes of Christian formation, the impact of economic and social systems on faith communities, and the power of apocalyptic clarity to unveil and resist the dehumanizing forces at work in the world. Dr. Zink shares insights on finding hope amidst challenges, fostering intercultural relationships, and embracing the church's practices—like the Eucharist—as acts of resistance and renewal.   The Rev. Dr. Jesse Zink is an Anglican priest and also serves as canon theologian in the Diocese of Montreal. Born in Vancouver and raised in the United States, Jesse has also served in ministry in South Africa and England before his arrival in Montreal. Since 2017 Jesse, has been Principal of Montreal Diocesan Theological College, or, as it is widely known, “Dio.” Dio is an ecumenical theological college serving the Anglican and United Churches of Canada and is affiliated with McGill University. His latest book, published in fall 2024, is Faithful, Creative, Hopeful: Fifteen Theses for Christians in a Crisis-Shaped World. He is the author of four other books about Christian theology, Christian mission, and Christianity in the non-western world, including Backpacking through the Anglican Communion (2014) and Christianity and Catastrophe in South Sudan: Civil War, Migration, and the Rise of Dinka Anglicanism (2018).   Presenting Sponsor: Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.  Supporting Sponsors: Restore Clergy If you are clergy in need of tailored, professional support to help you manage the demands of ministry, Restore Clergy is for you!   Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer Dennis Sanders – Producer Alexander Lang - Production Assistant

What happens when ideology takes over church leadership? In this episode, Martha Tatarnic welcomes Mike Cosper, creator of The Rise and Fall of Mars Hill and director of podcasts at Christianity Today. Mike explores the dynamics of ideology within church leadership, particularly how ideological thinking can lead to disastrous decision-making. Together, they discuss the influence of secularism and the anxiety surrounding church decline, as well as the allure of charismatic leaders like Mark Driscoll. In a thought-provoking dialogue, they consider the role of populism, the importance of resisting the cult of personality in church leadership, and the practices of worship and storytelling as acts of resistance. Mike also reflects on the reception of his work within the evangelical world and the importance of truth-telling in journalism. He emphasizes the mysterious ways God shows up in broken places, even amidst the church's failings.   Mike Cosper has been creating music, radio shows, and podcasts for more than 20 years. He produced and hosted The Rise and Fall of Mars Hill podcast and is director of podcasts at Christianity Today. He now cohosts a weekly podcast called The Bulletin. Cosper also leads cohorts for church leaders and is the author of four books, including Recapturing the Wonder. He and his family live in Louisville, Kentucky.   Presenting Sponsor: Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.  Supporting Sponsors: Restore Clergy If you are clergy in need of tailored, professional support to help you manage the demands of ministry, Restore Clergy is for you!   Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer Dennis Sanders – Producer Alexander Lang - Production Assistant

What happens when a pastor trades the pulpit for a tech startup? In this episode, Martha welcomes back Alexander Lang, a former PCUSA pastor turned tech entrepreneur, to share his journey from church ministry to launching a business focused on fostering meaningful relationships. Alexander dives into his latest creative projects, including the Restorative Faith Podcast and his upcoming YouTube series, Kokoro, which draws inspiration from Mr. Rogers to address universal themes like trust, anxiety, and doubt, offering adults a space to feel seen, heard, and valued. Through the lens of Kokoro, he unpacks how theology and media intersect, blending a theology of love and acceptance with practical strategies for personal growth. Martha and Alexander also discuss the potential of platforms like YouTube and TikTok to transcend traditional church boundaries, highlighting how social media can transform modern faith communication and reach new audiences in powerful ways. Alexander Lang is a former PCUSA pastor who worked in church ministry for 20 years. He has since left the church to pursue a technology business that is designed to help people form meaningful relationships. Alex's interests include independent film, electronic music and deep conversation with people who question, doubt and want to dig into the most complex issues we face as humans. When he's not working on books, podcasts or the Restorative Faith Movement, Alex enjoys spending time with his wife and two sons.   Previous Episodes with Alex Lang: 21st Century Spirituality: https://futurechristian.podbean.com/e/spirituality-for-the-21st-century-rationalist-a-conversation-with-alexander-lang/ The Most Viral Article on Clergy Burnout: https://futurechristian.podbean.com/e/alex-lang/   Presenting Sponsor: Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.  Supporting Sponsors: Restore Clergy If you are clergy in need of tailored, professional support to help you manage the demands of ministry, Restore Clergy is for you!   Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer Dennis Sanders – Producer Alexander Lang - Production Assistant

In this episode, co-hosts Martha Tatarnic and Loren Richmond Jr. reflect on the past season and share personal insights from their ministry journeys. Martha opens up about the challenges of transitioning back to ministry after a focused writing sabbath, touching on key themes like clergy mental health, food insecurity, and economic pressures that have shaped the season's conversations. Loren and Martha celebrate a major milestone—200 episodes—reflecting on the podcast's beginnings as a COVID project and its growth into a valued resource for church leaders. They highlight standout episodes, discussing topics such as the evolving landscape of church leadership, the importance of diversity and inclusion, and the benefits of team ministry in building strong faith communities. Throughout the episode, Loren and Martha stress the podcast's mission to provide companionship and support for those navigating the complexities of ministry.   Episodes Referenced: Pastoral Health Roundtable: https://futurechristian.podbean.com/e/pastoral/ Elizabeth Schrader Polczer: https://futurechristian.podbean.com/e/elizabeth-schrader-polczer-on-rethinking-mary-magdalene-part-1/ Yolanda Solomon: https://futurechristian.podbean.com/e/solomon/ Chuck DeGroat: https://futurechristian.podbean.com/e/the-primal-wound/ Casey Tygrett: https://futurechristian.podbean.com/e/casey-tygrett-on-why-remembering-matters/ Grace Ji-Sun Kim: https://futurechristian.podbean.com/e/grace-ji-sun-kim-on-making-church-less-white/ Allison Milbank: https://futurechristian.podbean.com/e/alison-milbank-on-why-small-and-local-might-be-the-churchs-way-forward/     Presenting Sponsor: Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.  Supporting Sponsors: Restore Clergy If you are clergy in need of tailored, professional support to help you manage the demands of ministry, Restore Clergy is for you!   Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer Dennis Sanders – Producer Alexander Lang - Production Assistant

What can the wider church learn from the rich history and theology of Black Christianity? In this episode of the Future Christian Podcast, Loren Richmond Jr. interviews Dr. Walter Strickland, a theologian and pastor, about his faith journey, spiritual practices, and the history of Black Christianity in America. Drawing from his book Swing Low, Dr. Strickland explores the anchors of Black Christianity, the impact of the Great Migration, and the tension between social engagement and gospel proclamation during the Civil Rights Movement. The conversation highlights lessons the white church can learn from African-American Christianity, the evolution of Black theology, and the relevance of the gospel in addressing societal issues and political complexities.   Walter R. Strickland II (PhD, University of Aberdeen) is associate professor of systematic and contextual theology at Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary. He has coauthored or contributed to several books, including For God So Loved the World: A Blueprint for Kingdom Diversity. He is a host of the White Horse Inn podcast and founder of Cultural Engagement and Aptree Learning.   Episodes Referenced: Pastoral Health Roundtable: https://futurechristian.podbean.com/e/pastoral/   Presenting Sponsor: Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.  Supporting Sponsors: Restore Clergy If you are clergy in need of tailored, professional support to help you manage the demands of ministry, Restore Clergy is for you! Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer Dennis Sanders – Producer Alexander Lang - Production Assistant

In this conversation, Reverend Jocelyn Jones shares her journey of faith, trauma, and healing, emphasizing the importance of community and therapy in overcoming personal challenges. She discusses her experiences in ministry, the barriers women face, and the significance of understanding one's value beyond societal definitions of success and failure. The conversation highlights the need for spiritual practices and wise counsel to stay centered in God's guidance while passionately sharing one's ministry. In this conversation, Rev. Jocelyn Jones discusses the importance of effectively communicating and 'selling' one's ministry, the challenges of valuing one's time and services, and the significance of setting boundaries by learning to say no. She also shares insights on guiding others in their ministry journeys, reflections on leadership, and her hopes for a future of Christianity that emphasizes healing and love over harm. Rev. Jocelyn is an author, speaker, and entrepreneur. Jocelyn's background as a journalist, executive director of a nonprofit, and community leader allows her to connect with people from all walks of life.  She received her bachelor's degree from the University of Iowa in journalism.  After receiving her B.A., she earned her master's degree in social work and her master's degree in theological studies.  Jocelyn published her first book in 2019, Breaking the Power of the Mask. Jocelyn is an ordained minister and the President of Faith on the Journey, a Christian Counseling company specializing in grief and trauma.  She is a Master Facilitator with the Trauma Healing Institute and the founder of the Women in the Ministry which helps women to start, grow, and sustain transformative ministries that change the world.  Website: jocelynjjones.com Social: IG: @jocelynjjones             FB: @connectwithJocelyn             Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@MeetRevJocelyn Free Ministry Launch Starter Kit at sisterstartyourministry.com   Episodes Referenced: Casey Tygrett: https:/https://futurechristian.podbean.com/e/casey/ Kinsie Tate: https://futurechristian.podbean.com/e/restore-clergy/   Presenting Sponsor: Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.  Supporting Sponsors: Restore Clergy If you are clergy in need of tailored, professional support to help you manage the demands of ministry, Restore Clergy is for you! Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer Dennis Sanders – Producer Alexander Lang - Production Assistant

What if the key to a deeper relationship with God lies in the way we remember? In this episode, spiritual director and author Casey Tygrett joins us to explore how memory shapes our identity and faith journey. Together, we discuss how embracing spiritual practices that center on intimacy, rather than punishment, can help us unlearn harmful narratives about God. Casey shares insights on remembering as a path to healing, especially in addressing generational trauma that influences our beliefs. We also delve into the role of lament in processing painful memories and the wisdom we gain from them. Finally, we reflect on the Lord's Supper as a symbol of unity and love, and why pastors must prioritize wellness for the health of their ministry.   Casey Tygrett (D.Min.) is a pastor and spiritual director who has lived in the spiritual formation conversation for the last two decades. He is the author of Becoming Curious: A Spiritual Practice of Asking Questions, The Practice of Remembering: Uncovering the Place of Memories in Our Spiritual Life and The Gift of Restlessness: A Spirituality for Unsettled Seasons. He is passionate about the soul health of leaders and the recovery of the transformational way of Jesus that is spiritual formation. He, his wife Holley, and daughter Bailey live in Chicago, IL. www.caseytygrett.com @caseytygrett   Episodes Referenced (Previous Episode with Casey): Casey Tygrett: https:/https://futurechristian.podbean.com/e/casey/   Presenting Sponsor: Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.  Supporting Sponsors: Restore Clergy If you are clergy in need of tailored, professional support to help you manage the demands of ministry, Restore Clergy is for you! Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer Dennis Sanders – Producer Alexander Lang - Production Assistant

In this milestone 200th episode of the Future Christian Podcast, hosts Loren Richmond Jr. and Martha Tatarnic celebrate with a roundtable discussion on clergy wellness, joined by Brian Davis, and Kinsie Tate. Together, they explore the challenges and opportunities surrounding pastoral health, sharing insights and personal experiences from their diverse backgrounds. The conversation delves into the importance of community, the performative nature of clergy life, and the challenges of burnout and mental health. The panelists share personal experiences and insights on navigating success and failure in ministry, the impact of competition among clergy, and the systemic issues facing the church today. They also discuss practical steps and resources for clergy to support their mental, emotional, and spiritual well-being, emphasizing the need for vulnerability and connection in ministry. Rev. Kinsie Tate is the Founder and Executive Director of Restore Clergy, a nonprofit organization whose mission is to support clergy with programs that improve wellness to cultivate faithful and sustainable ministry. She is a Licensed Professional Clinical Counselor and has a private practice where she has facilitated growth and transformation for clients for over a decade. She completed her Master of Divinity at Phillips Theological Seminary and was ordained in the Christian Church (Disciples of Christ) in 2007. She served as an associate minister for 3 years prior to returning to complete her Master of Education in Applied Behavioral Studies at Oklahoma City University in 2010. She became a Licensed Professional Counselor in Oklahoma in 2012 and a Licensed Professional Clinical Counselor in California in 2021. She was certified as a Truce Coach in 2022. She lives in California with her spouse, who is United Methodist Clergy serving in a local congregation, and their 3 school age children.  FB: https://www.facebook.com/restoreclergy/ Insta: https://www.instagram.com/restoreclergy/ website: www.restoreclergy.com Brian Davis has been leading worship in the Denver-metro area for the last 25 years and has built relationships with dozens of churches all over the city. Authenticity and empathy have been hallmarks of Brian's leadership, and his intention is to use these attributes to coach other worship leaders and inspire greater creativity and deeper spiritual practice in the local church. Brian has three daughters, and he and his wife, Jess, live in Lakewood, CO. He also serves part-time as the Worship Arts Director at New Denver Church. Insta: https://www.instagram.com/greenroomleaders/ website: https://www.greenroomleaders.com/   Episodes Referenced: Martha Tatarnic: https://futurechristian.podbean.com/e/why-gather-with-martha-tatarnic/https://www.podbean.com/eas/pb-himxq-13e0aa9 Kinsie Tate: https://futurechristian.podbean.com/e/restore-clergy/ Brian Davis: https://futurechristian.podbean.com/e/the-pressure-to-perform-as-a-pastor-with-paul-romig-leavitt-and-brian-davis/   Presenting Sponsor: Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.    Supporting Sponsors: Restore Clergy If you are clergy in need of tailored, professional support to help you manage the demands of ministry, Restore Clergy is for you!   Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer Dennis Sanders – Producer Alexander Lang - Production Assistant

What if the core problem in most humans these days isn't that we think too highly of ourselves, but rather that we live with an underlying sense of worthlessness, alienation, and disillusionment? In this episode, Chuck DeGroat joins the pod to talk about his book Healing What's Within and the concept of Internal Family Systems theory. Sharing from his  background as a therapist and pastor, DeGroat explains the importance of befriending our different parts and becoming aware of how they show up in different situations. DeGroat emphasizes the significance of connecting with our true selves and living from that core. Exploring the classic "fall" narrative in Genesis 3, DeGroat proposes the theological concept of a primal wound and the importance of understanding the underlying story and biography behind harmful behavior. He emphasizes the need for pastors and church leaders to have support groups and close friendships to navigate the challenges they face.  Chuck DeGroat is a professor of pastoral care and Christian spirituality at Western Theological Seminary in Holland, Michigan, where he also serves as the founding executive director of the clinical mental health counseling program. He is a licensed therapist, spiritual director, author, retreat leader speaker, and faculty member with the Soul Care Institute. As a therapist, he specializes in navigating issues of abuse and trauma, pastoral (and leadership) health, and doubt and dark nights on the faith journey. He trains clergy in handling issues of abuse and trauma, conducts pastor and planter assessments, and facilitates church consultations and investigations of abuse. Before transitioning to training and forming pastors, Chuck served as a pastor in Orlando and San Francisco. He and his wife, Sara, have been married for 30 years and have two adult daughters. Book Buy Link Chuck's Website Chuck's IG Chuck's X   Presenting Sponsor: Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.  Supporting Sponsors: Restore Clergy If you are clergy in need of tailored, professional support to help you manage the demands of ministry, Restore Clergy is for you! Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer Dennis Sanders – Producer Alexander Lang - Production Assistant

What if common worship practices are elevating our anxiety rather than centering us in the peace of God? In this conversation, J. Michael Jordan joins the show to talk about the intersection of faith and mental health, particularly in relation to anxiety. He explores the historical context of the anxiety-relief repentance model in revivalist movements and its impact on worship practices. He emphasizes the need for a more holistic and sustainable approach to faith that goes beyond the cycle of anxiety, repentance, and relief. Jordan emphasizes the importance of a guiding story outside of our own experiences and the value of ritual in worship. He also discusses practical aspects of worship, such as lighting and technology, and how they can either draw us deeper into the worship experience or distract us from it. Rev. Dr. Michael Jordan (PhD, Drew University) is professor of theology at Houghton University. From 2002-2009, he was the pastor of Exton Community Baptist Church in Exton, PA. From 2013-2024, he served as Dean of the Chapel at Houghton before moving over to teach full-time this fall.  Over the summer, he is the staff chaplain at Camp-of-the-Woods, a Christian camp in the Adirondack Mountains. Mike's wife Jill is a mathematician who also teaches at Houghton; they live just off campus and together are raising their five children: Grace, Jack, Lucy, Gabriel, and Anne. In his spare time, Mike enjoys singing, crossword puzzles and distance running and is a rabid fan of Philadelphia professional and college sports. Facebook @RevDrMichaelJordan michael.jordan@houghton.edu theothermichaeljordan.substack.com   Episodes Referenced: Andrew Root: https://www.podbean.com/eas/pb-himxq-13e0aa9   Presenting Sponsor: Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.  Supporting Sponsors: Restore Clergy If you are clergy in need of tailored, professional support to help you manage the demands of ministry, Restore Clergy is for you! Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Guest Host / Co-Host Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer Dennis Sanders – Producer Alexander Lang - Production Assistant

Despite the headlines, young adults are still interested in church, says Jeff Keuss. In this episode, he discusses the surprising findings that young adults view churches as vital social change agents and are not opposed to their existence. Instead, they seek meaningful, inclusive, and intellectually engaging communities that address real-world issues and offer genuine care and mentorship. He also explores the concept of "belong, believe, behave" in church life, challenging traditional membership models and advocating for a more inclusive approach that values diverse voices and experiences. He emphasizes the importance of churches as resource centers that prepare individuals for their roles in the world, rather than merely places of worship. The conversation also explores the shifting dynamics of church leadership, the role of gender diversity in fostering healthy communities, and the critical need for mentorship across generations. Dr. Keuss's research offers a hopeful vision for the future of Christianity, one that embraces diversity, open dialogue, and the transformative power of faith. Jeff Keuss, PhD brings over 30 years of leadership and managerial experience in higher education, health care and social services administration both in the US and UK.   In his various roles as a Professor, Director of the University Scholars Honors Program as well as Associate Dean of Graduate Studies for Seattle Pacific Seminary within SPU, Jeff continues to be actively engaged in research, fundraising, curriculum coordination, working with external publics such as churches and faith communities, major donor acquisition and retention, administrative recruitment, and annual fund development.  His commitment to faith development is seen in his $2.75 million in grant acquisitions as part of a $55 million initiative from the Lilly Endowment for the development of Pivot NW, a non-profit research and support institute seeking to research innovation models for the sake of engaging young adults in innovative social ventures with faith communities. His recent publication  Paul Ricoeur and the Hope of Higher Education: The Just University  (Rowman & Littlefield, 2020), speaks to his continued to work on the future of higher education as a place of justice and hope for human flourishing alongside a global network of thought leaders in educational innovation.  Jeff is an ordained minister of the Word and Sacrament (PCUSA) and served several congregations both in the US and in the Church of Scotland as Assistant Minister of the Glasgow Cathedral.  He is a graduate of Seattle Pacific University (BA), Fuller Theological Seminary (MDiv), Harvard University (Masters in I/O Psychology), and the University of Glasgow, Scotland (PhD in Literature, Theology, and the Arts).   Episodes Referenced: Scott Thumma: https://futurechristian.podbean.com/e/understanding-the-impact-of-societal-changes-on-congregational-dynamics-insights-from-dr-scott-thumma/ https://futurechristian.podbean.com/e/ryan-burge-on-myths-about-religion-and-politics-in-america/   Presenting Sponsor: Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.  Supporting Sponsors: Restore Clergy If you are clergy in need of tailored, professional support to help you manage the demands of ministry, Restore Clergy is for you! Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Guest Host / Co-Host Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer Dennis Sanders – Producer Alexander Lang - Production Assistant

How do we make church less "white," and more welcoming and inclusive of different non-white cultures, perspectives, and persons? In this conversation, Grace Ji-Sun Kim discusses her book When God Became White: Dismantling Whiteness for More Just Christianity and the need to challenge the white, male image of God in Christianity. She shares her personal experiences with racism and explores the impact of the image of a white Jesus on the perception of race and power in the church. Dr. Kim suggests embracing non-white, non-gendered images of God in worship and liturgy as a way to promote inclusivity and challenge racism. She also emphasizes the importance of recognizing God's presence in other cultures and religions. Dr. Grace Ji-Sun Kim received her MDiv from Knox College at the University of Toronto and her PhD from the University of Toronto. She is professor of theology at Earlham School of Religion. Dr. Kim is an internationally renowned lecturer and the acclaimed author or editor of 24 books, including When God Became White, Surviving God, and Invisible. Among many other accolades, Englewood review of books listed Invisible as one of the 12 important theology books of 2021, and listed Kim as one of 10 important women theologians that you should be reading. She is also on the list of the top 10 writers shaping our movement put together by the Center for Progressive Renewal.    Presenting Sponsor: Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.  Supporting Sponsors: Restore Clergy If you are clergy in need of tailored, professional support to help you manage the demands of ministry, Restore Clergy is for you! Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Guest Host / Co-Host Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer Dennis Sanders – Producer Alexander Lang - Production Assistant

Have you ever wondered if the battles we face in the modern church are just echoes of centuries-old conflicts? In this episode, Loren Richmond Jr. dives deep with Elesha J. Coffman to uncover how the struggles of the past are not only shaping our present but could be setting the stage for the church's future. Elesha delves into the pivotal events that have shaped American church history, with a particular emphasis on the Methodist Church's split over slavery in 1844 and similarities between the division within the UMC today over LGBTQ inclusion and racial justice. They also discuss the tendency for churches to become ideological bunkers, the influence of biblical interpretation in shaping theology and practice, and whether everything just comes down to economic issues. Elesha J. Coffman is an accomplished historian and professor at Baylor University, specializing in the study of American religious history. She earned her Ph.D. in American Religious History from Duke University and has contributed significantly to the field through her extensive research and publications. Coffman is the author of The Christian Century and the Rise of the Protestant Mainline as well as Turning Points in American Church History. Her work examines the intersections of media, religion, and culture, highlighting the role of religious publications in shaping public discourse. Coffman's scholarly pursuits focus on how religious groups engage with broader societal issues, offering valuable insights into the evolving landscape of American faith and identity.   Episodes Referenced: Scott Thumma: https://futurechristian.podbean.com/e/understanding-the-impact-of-societal-changes-on-congregational-dynamics-insights-from-dr-scott-thumma/   Presenting Sponsor: Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.  Supporting Sponsors: Restore Clergy If you are clergy in need of tailored, professional support to help you manage the demands of ministry, Restore Clergy is for you! Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Guest Host / Co-Host Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer Dennis Sanders – Producer Alexander Lang - Production Assistant

In this episode, Loren Richmond Jr. welcomes Rev. Dr. Kristina Lizardy-Hajbi, who delves into her recent research, including the Latino Congregations Trends from the Faith Communities Today (FACT) study and the Exploring the Pandemic Impact on Congregations (EPIC) study. She highlights key findings on the state of Latino congregations in the U.S., including challenges related to building ownership, generational wealth, and reliance on fundraising. Kristina also shares insights from her book, Unraveling Religious Leadership, which examines the Eurocentric norms in theological education and the need for a more inclusive approach to ministry. Rev. Kristina Lizardy-Hajbi, Ph.D. (she/her/ella) is Associate Professor of Leadership and Formation and Faculty Director of the Office of Professional Formation at Iliff School of Theology in Denver, Colorado. In addition, she co-directs the Doctor of Ministry in Prophetic Leadership at Iliff and coordinates the Certificate in Latinx Studies for the Iliff/DU Joint PhD in Religion. Her teaching and research interests include organizational leadership, liberative and decolonial approaches to ministry, intersectional pedagogical practices, and applied research methods. Kristina is the author of Unraveling Religious Leadership: Power, Authority, and Decoloniality (Fortress, 2024), author of the report "Latino Congregations: Trends from the Faith Communities Today (FACT) and Exploring the Pandemic Impact on Congregations (EPIC) Studies" (Hartford Institute for Religion Research, 2023), and co-editor of Explore: Vocational Discovery in Ministry (Rowman & Littlefield, 2022). She is an Ordained Minister in the United Church of Christ.   Episodes Referenced: Scott Thumma: https://futurechristian.podbean.com/e/understanding-the-impact-of-societal-changes-on-congregational-dynamics-insights-from-dr-scott-thumma/   Presenting Sponsor: Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.  Supporting Sponsors: Restore Clergy If you are clergy in need of tailored, professional support to help you manage the demands of ministry, Restore Clergy is for you! Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Guest Host / Co-Host Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer Dennis Sanders – Producer Alexander Lang - Production Assistant  

In this episode, we explore with Megan Bissell the evolving landscape of American Christianity and how faith communities can adapt to new challenges. We begin by discussing the latest data on "nones" (those with no religious affiliation) and Gen Z, highlighting the need for a shift in thinking within American Christianity. Megan shares why she believes faith should be viewed as "a conversation" and why relationships rooted in listening are essential for churches looking to reconnect with modern society. We then introduce the concept of Sacred Listening Tools to help foster meaningful engagement. We delve into the origins of this idea, its practical applications, and its three foundational roots. Lastly, we consider the future implications for Sunday worship and discuss how the role of pastors may need to evolve to better support deeper relationships and conversations within their communities. Megan Bissell is the co-founder of Future of Faith and an applied sociologist and researcher who specializes in the lives of young people, relationships, and group dynamics. She has spent her career turning research into actionable insights that people can use to make a meaningful impact. She has extensive experience  in leading research, facilitating workshops and educational programs, and consulting with organizations who want to enhance their relational and organizational dynamics. ​Megan was previously Head of Research for both the Social Research Lab at the University of Northern Colorado and then at Springtide Research Institute. She served as the Vice President for Research at the National Catholic Educational Association. She has a B.A. and an M.A in Sociology. Megan lives in Greeley, Colorado with her family of creatives, where she has no choice but to be inspired by those around her. Video: https://youtu.be/m3lrNSEWrwI Website: www.futureoffaith.org LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/megan-bissell-7b503713/   Presenting Sponsor: Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.  Supporting Sponsors: Restore Clergy If you are clergy in need of tailored, professional support to help you manage the demands of ministry, Restore Clergy is for you! Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Guest Host / Co-Host Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer Dennis Sanders – Producer Alexander Lang - Production Assistant

In this episode, Loren Richmond Jr. welcomes Rebekah Simon-Peter, a passionate advocate for reconnecting spiritual leaders with their divine potential to co-create miracles. They discuss the importance of moving beyond mere church attendance to fostering deep spiritual growth and apostleship within congregations. She emphasizes the significance of understanding Jesus from a Jewish perspective and how this can transform our reading of the New Testament. Loren and Rebekah also explore the challenges and opportunities for churches in a post-pandemic world, highlighting the need for spiritual depth and visionary leadership Rebekah is passionate about spiritual growth and the communities it fosters. Over the last eighteen years, she has positively impacted thousands of leaders through her award-winning group coaching program, Creating a Culture of Renewal®. A dynamic speaker and master trainer, Rebekah has engaged and challenged audiences around the country. She is the author of many books including Believe Like Jesus: Rising from Faith in Jesus to the Faith of Jesus (Market Square Books, November 6, 2024), Forging a New Path, and Dream Like Jesus. Rebekah is a wife, sister, daughter, foster mom, mentor, and friend. When she's not hanging out with family, you can find her journaling, hiking on the mountain, at the gym, or enjoying a good cup of coffee. For more information about Rebekah Simon-Peter, call (307) 333-5990, email office@rebekahsimonpeter.com or visit www.rebekahsimonpeter.com.   https://www.facebook.com/cultureofrenewal https://www.instagram.com/rebekahsimonpeter/ https://www.linkedin.com/in/rebekahsimonpeter   Presenting Sponsor: Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.    Supporting Sponsors: Restore Clergy If you are clergy in need of tailored, professional support to help you manage the demands of ministry, Restore Clergy is for you!     Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Guest Host / Co-Host Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer Dennis Sanders – Producer Alexander Lang - Production Assistant

What does it look like to live ethically as a Progressive Christian? In this episode, Amanda Udis-Kessler explores ethics from a Progressive Christian context, emphasizing the importance of loving our enemies and the connection to generosity of spirit as she believes Progressive Christianity is about striving to follow Jesus's path and working towards building a beloved community. The conversation also touches on the complexity of human nature, with the capacity for both tremendous good and terrifying evil, and thus the importance of societal influences to shape our values and actions. Amanda also explores the relationship between the gospel and social programs, highlighting the importance of both spiritual and practical implications of the gospel. She suggests that churches can live out their faith by focusing on cultivating virtues and becoming laboratories of radical hospitality.   Dr. Amanda Udis-Kessler is a sociologist, writer, hymnwriter, and sacred music composer. Pilgrim Press published her book Abundant Lives: A Progressive Christian Ethic of Flourishing this past spring, and Anthem Press is about to release her book Cultural Processes of Inequality: A Sociological Perspective. Amanda is also a core contributor to the anthology A Liturgy for All Bodies: New Words for a New World, and the author of chapters in an additional 13 books. Amanda serves as the accompanist at her church, Vista Grande Community Church United Church of Christ in Colorado Springs, Colorado, and as a hymn text writer for the Rocky Mountain Conference of the UCC. She also develops and leads workshops on topics ranging from creativity to how white people can work against racism. She will lead a session on developing inclusive and antiracist liturgical materials at the 2024 UCC Musicians Association annual conference. Her sacred music website https://queersacredmusic.com has over 150 free-use hymns and worship songs in score, recording, and video formats. Her writing website https://amandaudiskessler.com includes a repository of freely available chapters, essays, sermons, and liturgical materials.  https://thepilgrimpress.com/products/abundant-lives-a-progressive-christian-ethic-of-flourishing-udis-kessler websites and social media: Writing: https://amandaudiskessler.com Music: https://queersacredmusic.com Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/amanda.udiskessler   Presenting Sponsor: Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.    Supporting Sponsors: Restore Clergy If you are clergy in need of tailored, professional support to help you manage the demands of ministry, Restore Clergy is for you!     Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Guest Host / Co-Host Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer Dennis Sanders – Producer Alexander Lang - Production Assistant

In this episode, Loren Richmond Jr. welcomes Yolanda Solomon, the Director of Discipleship at Epiphany Church in Brooklyn, New York. Yolanda shares her journey in ministry, her love for the Knicks, and the importance of creating a reciprocal discipleship culture within the church. They discuss the challenges of modern discipleship, the pitfalls of fear, shame, and hatred, and the need for a long-term commitment to spiritual growth. Yolanda also provides insights on fostering a community where everyone can contribute to the discipleship process, emphasizing the power of mutual support and the Holy Spirit in transforming lives.   Yolanda M. Solomon is the director of discipleship at Epiphany Church in Brooklyn, New York, where she teaches and creates discipleship curriculum and resources. She has also worked in campus ministry at Columbia University in New York, where she was blessed to serve undergraduate students for seven years. Yolanda is a disciple of Christ, a Brooklyn native, and a lifelong Knicks fan, which richly fuels her prayer life. She lives in Brooklyn with her family. Buy her book here: https://bookshop.org/p/books/discipleship-as-holy-collaboration-helping-others-follow-jesus-in-real-life-yolanda-solomon/20713480?ean=9781514006191   Presenting Sponsor: Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.    Supporting Sponsors: Restore Clergy If you are clergy in need of tailored, professional support to help you manage the demands of ministry, Restore Clergy is for you! Theology Beer Camp https://homebrewedchristianity.lpages.co/theology-beer-camp-24/   Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Guest Host / Co-Host Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer Dennis Sanders – Producer Alexander Lang - Production Assistance

In this conversation, Martha Tatarnic welcomes Rob Hurkmans about his journey in ministry and the lessons he has learned along the way. They discuss topics such as their 20th anniversary of ordination, the faith context in which Rob was raised, his calling to ministry, and his current role at Trinity Streetsville. Rob shares his experience of being an idea person and the importance of slowing down and bringing others along in the process. They also touch on the challenges of personal investment in ideas and the influence of church growth literature. They also explore the role of liturgy in the church and the need for creative and inclusive forms of worship. Robert also shares his insights on leadership models, the need for contextual and collaborative approaches, and the importance of leading through change.  The Reverend Doctor Robert Hurkmans is the senior pastor at Trinity Anglican Church in Streetsville, Mississauga. He is married to Sally and they have four daughters. Rob recently completed his Doctor of Ministry degree in Leadership Development from Tyndale University. Rob was ordained with Martha Tatarnic 20 years ago in the Diocese of Niagara.   Presenting Sponsor: Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.    Supporting Sponsors: Restore Clergy If you are clergy in need of tailored, professional support to help you manage the demands of ministry, Restore Clergy is for you! Theology Beer Camp https://homebrewedchristianity.lpages.co/theology-beer-camp-24/   Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Guest Host / Co-Host Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer Dennis Sanders – Producer Alexander Lang - Production Assistance

Bishop Michael Pryse joins the show to share his perspectives on change and leadership in the Church from his three decades of experience in the Evangelical Lutheran Church in Canada. He has helped the church navigate change, particularly in becoming more inclusive of LGBTQ+IA individuals.  The conversation explores the challenges and pitfalls of the church, particularly in relation to the changing cultural context. It emphasizes the need to let go of the past and embrace new ways of being the church. The conversation also touches on the importance of inclusivity, engaging with newcomers, and breaking down denominational barriers. The hope for the future of the church includes being more conversant with science and technology, promoting equity, and fostering dialogue with people of other faiths. Bishop Pryse leads the Eastern Synod of the Evangelical Lutheran Church in Canada. He attended Eastwood Collegiate and earned a Bachelor of Arts in History and English from Wilfrid Laurier University, followed by a Master of Divinity from Waterloo Lutheran Seminary in 1985. Ordained on June 7, 1985, he served as a pastor in various Ontario communities and later as Assistant to the Bishop of Eastern Synod. In 1998, he was elected Bishop of the Eastern Synod of the Evangelical Lutheran Church in Canada. Bishop Pryse is a strong advocate for Christian unity and ecumenical cooperation. He co-chaired the Joint Anglican Lutheran Commission and the Anglican Lutheran International Coordinating Committee. He has participated in numerous ecumenical and multi-faith delegations worldwide. Inspired by his grandfather's ministry among the Six Nations peoples and his own adoption experience, Bishop Pryse is committed to breaking down divisions within the human family. He has traveled extensively to support global justice, human rights, and inclusivity. He was awarded an honorary Doctor of Divinity by Wilfrid Laurier University in 2011 for his leadership in public, ecumenical, and multi-faith areas. Bishop Pryse and his wife Lois have four adult daughters and nine grandchildren and live in Kitchener, Ontario.   Presenting Sponsor: Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.    Supporting Sponsors: Restore Clergy If you are clergy in need of tailored, professional support to help you manage the demands of ministry, Restore Clergy is for you! Theology Beer Camp https://homebrewedchristianity.lpages.co/theology-beer-camp-24/   Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Guest Host / Co-Host Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer Dennis Sanders – Producer Alexander Lang - Production Assistance  

The conversation between Martha and Callie Swanlund covers Callie's journey in the Episcopal Church, the changes in her Christian experience, her current ministry context, and the inspiration behind her book 'From Weary to Wholehearted: A Restorative Resource for Overcoming Clergy Burnout'. The discussion also delves into the challenges of clergy burnout, the pressure points for church leaders, and the importance of support systems and retreats. The conversation explores the concept of retreat as a means of self-care and the challenges of claiming personal needs. It delves into the SPARK framework, systemic issues in the church, and the future of Christianity. Callie Swanlund shares insights on fostering wellness for leaders and the importance of brave conversations.  Callie Swanlund is an Episcopal priest, retreat leader, spiritual companion, and coach who helps others know their belovedness and find their Spark. Her new book, From Weary to Wholehearted, is a restorative resource for overcoming ministry burnout. Callie is a creative minister and leads individuals and groups in the work of Dr. Brené Brown as a Certified Daring Way Facilitator. Her How2charist: Digital Instructed Eucharist film has reached Christians and curious individuals around the world, and her Wholehearted Wisdom movement invites others into deeper reflection and connection across social media. Callie is an Episcopal Church Foundation Fellow and has keynoted such conferences as: Kanuga Christian Formation Conference, Episcopal Communicators Annual Conference, and Episcopal Camps and Conference Centers Annual Conference. She lives in Philadelphia with her co-dreaming partner Jeremy, their two tween/teen children, and a rescue pup named Rufus. www.callieswanlund.com | callie@callieswanlund.com   Presenting Sponsor: Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.    Supporting Sponsors: Restore Clergy If you are clergy in need of tailored, professional support to help you manage the demands of ministry, Restore Clergy is for you! Theology Beer Camp https://homebrewedchristianity.lpages.co/theology-beer-camp-24/   Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Guest Host / Co-Host Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer Dennis Sanders – Producer Alexander Lang - Production Assistance

In this episode, Martha Tatarnic welcomes Jason Byassee to talk about church growth in a Mainline church context. Jason discusses the importance of churches embracing their own limitations and uncertainties. He emphasizes the need for churches to recognize that their only hope lies in the resurrection of Jesus and to be willing to give away their assets to those who can fill them. Byassee also highlights the significance of funerals in conveying the meaning of life and the role of the church in providing a message that is worth hearing. He explores the commonalities among thriving churches, including a willingness to try new things and a focus on character rather than charisma. Ultimately, Byassee encourages pastors to have hope in a God who raises the dead and to trust in the future of Christianity. Jason Byassee is senior pastor of Timothy Eaton Memorial Church in Toronto, ON. He previously taught preaching and held the Butler Chair in Homiletics at the Vancouver School of Theology. He is author or editor of 20 books on Christian faith, biblical interpretation, thriving congregations, leadership, and church history. Learn more at www.jasonbyassee.com.    Presenting Sponsor: Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.    Supporting Sponsors: Torn Curtain Arts is a non-profit ministry that works with worship leaders, creatives, and churches to help avoid burnout, love their work, and realize their full creative potential.   Theology Beer Camp https://homebrewedchristianity.lpages.co/theology-beer-camp-24/   Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Guest Host / Co-Host Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer Danny Burton - Producer Dennis Sanders – Producer

In this conversation, Professor Alison Milbank discusses the concept of the parish and its importance in the life of faith. She shares her experiences growing up in the Church of England and the changes she has witnessed due to secularization. Milbank emphasizes the significance of the parish as a local community that brings together people of different ages and cultures. She also explores the threats to the parish, including the influence of secularization and the rise of bureaucratic managerialism in the Church. Milbank argues for a return to the core activities of the church and a focus on mission and evangelism. They also discuss the significance of parish buildings as spaces for community engagement and the potential for the parish to address issues such as mental health, social justice, and environmental sustainability. Despite the challenges, she expresses hope for the future of Christianity and the resurgence of faithfulness. Alison Milbank is Professor of Theology and Literature at the University of Nottingham, where she works in the field of religion and the arts. She has had a particular interest in horror fiction from Daughters of the House: Modes of the Gothic in Victorian Fiction in 1992 to God and the Gothic: Religion, Romance and Reality in the English Literary Tradition (2018). She has also published on Dante reception (Dante and the Victorians, 1998) and on fantasy and religion (Chesterton and Tolkien as Theologians: The Fantasy of the Real, 2007). She is also an Anglican priest, currently Canon Theologian and Priest Vicar at Southwell Minster, a cathedral and parish church in a small town near Sherwood Forest. In 2010, with Andrew Davison she wrote For the Parish: A Critique of Fresh Expressions and in 2023, The Once and Future Parish, with six lectures on the book available on you tube at https://www.youtube.com/@sshoxford5856/videos Associated with the Radical Orthodoxy movement, she co-edited Preaching Radical and Orthodox, with John Hughes and Arabella Milbank Robinson. Presenting Sponsor: Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.    Supporting Sponsors: Torn Curtain Arts is a non-profit ministry that works with worship leaders, creatives, and churches to help avoid burnout, love their work, and realize their full creative potential.   Theology Beer Camp https://homebrewedchristianity.lpages.co/theology-beer-camp-24/   Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Guest Host / Co-Host Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer Danny Burton - Producer Dennis Sanders – Producer

In this episode, Martha Tatarnic continues her conversation with Elizabeth Schrader Polczer for the second part of a groundbreaking conversation on biblical scholarship. Continuing from last week, Elizabeth delves deeper into her research on the Gospel of John, Papyrus 66, and the evolving understanding of Mary Magdalene's role in early Christianity. She explores the textual instabilities around the names Mary and Martha, revealing how these edits might have been attempts to downplay Mary's significance as a central figure in the Christian narrative. Elizabeth discusses the viral reaction to her work, sparked by Diana Butler Bass's sermon at the Wild Goose Festival, and the challenges of navigating public and scholarly reactions to her theories. She also addresses how her findings resonate with John scholars and the broader implications for understanding women's roles in the church. This is the second of a two-part episode, so go back and listen to the first half, which can be found in the show notes below. Elizabeth Schrader Polczer is Assistant Professor of New Testament at Villanova University. She holds a doctorate in Early Christianity from Duke University, with a focus on textual criticism, Mary Magdalene, and the Gospel of John. Her research has been published in the Harvard Theological Review, the Journal of Biblical Literature, TC: A Journal of Biblical Textual Criticism, the Comparative Oriental Manuscript Studies Bulletin, and the Journal of Early Christian Studies. She is regularly invited to present her peer-reviewed research at churches and conferences internationally. On Twitter/X: @libbieschrader   Part One https://www.podbean.com/eas/pb-ushmm-16554d0   YouTube of Diana Butler Bass sermon  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sSH-nfdh_S0&t=5s   Elizabeth's Album: https://music.apple.com/us/artist/libbie-schrader/16720802     Presenting Sponsor: Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.    Supporting Sponsors: Torn Curtain Arts is a non-profit ministry that works with worship leaders, creatives, and churches to help avoid burnout, love their work, and realize their full creative potential.   Theology Beer Camp https://homebrewedchristianity.lpages.co/theology-beer-camp-24/   Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Guest Host / Co-Host Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer Danny Burton - Producer Dennis Sanders – Producer

In this episode, Martha Tatarnic welcomes Elizabeth Schrader Polczer to talk about her groundbreaking work in biblical scholarship, particularly in how we see and understand Mary Magdalene and the Gospel of John.  Elizabeth discusses the textual instabilities around the names Mary and Martha in John 11, visible in Papyrus 66, revealing intriguing insights and controversial edits that challenge traditional interpretations. She shares her discovery of editorial changes that suggest Martha may have been added to the Gospel of John in the second century. This revelation has significant implications for how we understand the role of Mary Magdalene in early Christianity. This is the first of a two-part episode, so be sure to stay tuned next week for the second half. Elizabeth Schrader Polczer is Assistant Professor of New Testament at Villanova University. She holds a doctorate in Early Christianity from Duke University, with a focus on textual criticism, Mary Magdalene, and the Gospel of John. Her research has been published in the Harvard Theological Review, the Journal of Biblical Literature, TC: A Journal of Biblical Textual Criticism, the Comparative Oriental Manuscript Studies Bulletin, and the Journal of Early Christian Studies. She is regularly invited to present her peer-reviewed research at churches and conferences internationally. On Twitter/X: @libbieschrader YouTube of Diana Butler Bass sermon  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sSH-nfdh_S0&t=5s     Presenting Sponsor: Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.    Supporting Sponsors: Torn Curtain Arts is a non-profit ministry that works with worship leaders, creatives, and churches to help avoid burnout, love their work, and realize their full creative potential.   Theology Beer Camp https://homebrewedchristianity.lpages.co/theology-beer-camp-24/   Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Guest Host / Co-Host Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer Danny Burton - Producer Dennis Sanders – Producer

In this episode, Martha Tatarnic welcomes back Alexander Lang for a deep and insightful conversation. Alex, a former PCUSA pastor, has transitioned from church ministry to a technology business aimed at fostering meaningful relationships. The discussion centers on Alex's recent experiences since leaving his pastoral role and delves into the themes of his new book, "Restored: Spirituality for the 21st Century Rationalist." Alex shares his journey over the past five months, reflecting on the sense of community he misses and the broader implications for society as traditional church communities decline. The conversation explores the concept of the overview effect, inspired by astronaut Edgar Mitchell's transformative experience in space, and how it can redefine our understanding of spirituality. The episode also tackles the challenges faced by 21st-century rationalists in reconciling scientific understanding with spiritual practices. Alex offers a fresh perspective on prayer, emphasizing its potential for fostering deep connections and personal transformation, and highlights the importance of beauty as a spiritual practice and its accessibility in everyday life. Alexander Lang is a former PCUSA pastor who worked in church ministry for 20 years. He has since left the church to pursue a technology business that is designed to help people form meaningful relationships. Alex's interests include independent film, electronic music and deep conversation with people who question, doubt and want to dig into the most complex issues we face as humans. When he's not working on books, podcasts or the Restorative Faith Movement, Alex enjoys spending time with his wife and two sons.   Previous Episode with Alex: https://www.podbean.com/eas/pb-9dxb3-14b9d38   Presenting Sponsor: Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.    Supporting Sponsors: Torn Curtain Arts is a non-profit ministry that works with worship leaders, creatives, and churches to help avoid burnout, love their work, and realize their full creative potential.   Theology Beer Camp https://homebrewedchristianity.lpages.co/theology-beer-camp-24/   Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Guest Host / Co-Host Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer Danny Burton - Producer Dennis Sanders – Producer

In this episode, Martha Tatarnic welcomes, Christopher Dawes, a veteran worship leader and musician in Canada.  Chris discusses the challenges and pressures faced by church musicians and the unique role they play in worship. The conversation also explores the individuality and isolation experienced by church musicians and the need for better relationships between musicians and ministers. The conversation delves into the role of music in churches, the challenges faced by church musicians, and the significance of the Summer Institute of Church Music. It explores the power and pastoral potential of music, the overvaluation and undervaluation of music in churches, and the impact of music on the future of Christianity.  Christopher Dawes is a Toronto-based performer, conductor and consultant.  A three-decade fixture of the Toronto music community and frequent collaborator with many of its top institutions, he currently serves as Organist and Director of Music to Rosedale Presbyterian Church, and Artistic Director of the 18-voice a capella Marion Singers of Greater Toronto.  For two decades he has served as Collaborative Pianist and Coach to the graduate and undergraduate instrumental and choral conducting programs of the Faculty of Music, University of Toronto, and as a Director of Canada's Summer Institute of Church Music.  Since 2018 he has also chaired the Executive of the Southern Ontario Chapter (SOCHS) of the Hymn Society of the US and Canada.  Chris's graduate work in the area of Music Criticism and musical genre has led to occasional blogging and podcasting under the banner “Ideas About Music,” speaking at conferences, and eventually founding the Celtic-crossover band Chroí in 2013. Web - http://ideasaboutmusic.ca, and on Facebook. For more than 50 years, the Summer Institute of Church Music (SICM) has been helping church music to flourish by hosting a week-long transformative professional development program in July at Trafalgar Castle School in Whitby ON. Church musicians, worship leaders, clergy and choristers study under the direction of world class faculty, and participate in daily worship, workshops, and discussions of current issues facing churches and their music.  Students of all skill levels and denominations are welcomed.   Recently re-located to All Saints' Anglican Church in Whitby, in 2024 SICM is debuting a 3-day, 12-hour program running in-person and online from 12pm-4pm Eastern Time, and will also feature the Final Round of the 26th biennial Osborne Organ Competition.  It remains the only program of its kind in Canada. Web - http://sicm.ca, and on Facebook.   Presenting Sponsor: Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.    Supporting Sponsors: Torn Curtain Arts is a non-profit ministry that works with worship leaders, creatives, and churches to help avoid burnout, love their work, and realize their full creative potential.   Theology Beer Camp https://homebrewedchristianity.lpages.co/theology-beer-camp-24/   Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Guest Host / Co-Host Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer Danny Burton - Producer Dennis Sanders – Producer  

In this joint podcast episode with Vicars' Crossing and Future Christian, Kevin, Rob and Martha talk about why as busy pastors leading churches they carve out time to be part of hosting podcasts. What are the conversations that the church needs to be having? What has been difficult for the church to talk about? What do we see as the value of making time and space for conversations with different voices from a variety of perspectives figuring our leadership in our churches today? What do we hope to offer the church on Vicars' Crossing and Future Christian, and what have we been learning in the process? Vicars' Crossing is a theological and church leadership podcast cohosted by Anglican priests Kevin George and Rob Henderson.  Rob Henderson currently serves as rector of Holy Trinity St. Stephen's Memorial Anglican Church in Ontario.  His previous parishes have been in the town of Essex and the city of Windsor. Before his ordination in 2008, Rob worked in radio broadcasting in Chatham and Leamington. He has been co-hosting the Vicars Crossing podcast with his friend and colleague Kevin George since 2019. Rob is married to wife Margie and has 2 boys.   Kevin George was ordained in 1997 in the diocese of Eastern Newfoundland and Labrador, and has been a priest in the diocese of Huron since 1998. Kevin has served in the Parish of Labrador West, NL; St Marks by-the-Lake Tecumseh, ON; and is currently the Rector of St Aidan's Church London, ON. Kevin earned a Bachelor in Education degree from Memorial University of Newfoundland, a Master of Divinity Degree from Huron University, and a Doctorate in Ministry from McCormick Theological Seminary. His thesis research was focused on faithful baptismal response in interfaith settings. Kevin is married to Catherinanne, who is the Director of Campus Ministry at Brescia University, and a chaplain in the Royal Canadian Naval Reserve. Kevin is a loyal Habs fan, prays for the return of Les Expos, and has learned what suffering looks like from being introduced to the Detroit Lions by Rob! Kevin is an avid reader, loves being involved in the community, and enjoys an appropriate adult beverage with friends. Fun fact: In 2019 Kevin preached for 55 Hours without sleep.   The Vicars' Crossing Podcast https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-vicars-crossing/id1439360909   Presenting Sponsor: Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.    Supporting Sponsors: Torn Curtain Arts is a non-profit ministry that works with worship leaders, creatives, and churches to help avoid burnout, love their work, and realize their full creative potential.   Theology Beer Camp https://homebrewedchristianity.lpages.co/theology-beer-camp-24/   Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Guest Host / Co-Host Paul Romig–Leavitt – Executive Producer Danny Burton - Producer Dennis Sanders – Producer