Podcasts about Propolis

Bryan Cantrill is the co-founder and CTO of Oxide Computer Company. We discuss why the biggest cloud providers don't use off the shelf hardware, how scaling data centers at samsung's scale exposed problems with hard drive firmware, how the values of NodeJS are in conflict with robust systems, choosing Rust, and the benefits of Oxide Computer's rack scale approach. This is an extended version of an interview posted on Software Engineering Radio. Related links Oxide Computer Oxide and Friends Illumos Platform as a Reflection of Values RFD 26 bhyve CockroachDB Heterogeneous Computing with Raja Koduri Transcript You can help correct transcripts on GitHub. Intro [00:00:00] Jeremy: Today I am talking to Bryan Cantrill. He's the co-founder and CTO of Oxide computer company, and he was previously the CTO of Joyent and he also co-authored the DTrace Tracing framework while he was at Sun Microsystems. [00:00:14] Jeremy: Bryan, welcome to Software Engineering radio. [00:00:17] Bryan: Uh, awesome. Thanks for having me. It's great to be here. [00:00:20] Jeremy: You're the CTO of a company that makes computers. But I think before we get into that, a lot of people who built software, now that the actual computer is abstracted away, they're using AWS or they're using some kind of cloud service. So I thought we could start by talking about, data centers. [00:00:41] Jeremy: 'cause you were. Previously working at Joyent, and I believe you got bought by Samsung and you've previously talked about how you had to figure out, how do I run things at Samsung's scale. So how, how, how was your experience with that? What, what were the challenges there? Samsung scale and migrating off the cloud [00:01:01] Bryan: Yeah, I mean, so at Joyent, and so Joyent was a cloud computing pioneer. Uh, we competed with the likes of AWS and then later GCP and Azure. Uh, and we, I mean, we were operating at a scale, right? We had a bunch of machines, a bunch of dcs, but ultimately we know we were a VC backed company and, you know, a small company by the standards of, certainly by Samsung standards. [00:01:25] Bryan: And so when, when Samsung bought the company, I mean, the reason by the way that Samsung bought Joyent is Samsung's. Cloud Bill was, uh, let's just say it was extremely large. They were spending an enormous amount of money every year on, on the public cloud. And they realized that in order to secure their fate economically, they had to be running on their own infrastructure. [00:01:51] Bryan: It did not make sense. And there's not, was not really a product that Samsung could go buy that would give them that on-prem cloud. Uh, I mean in that, in that regard, like the state of the market was really no different. And so they went looking for a company, uh, and bought, bought Joyent. And when we were on the inside of Samsung. [00:02:11] Bryan: That we learned about Samsung scale. And Samsung loves to talk about Samsung scale. And I gotta tell you, it is more than just chest thumping. Like Samsung Scale really is, I mean, just the, the sheer, the number of devices, the number of customers, just this absolute size. they really wanted to take us out to, to levels of scale, certainly that we had not seen. [00:02:31] Bryan: The reason for buying Joyent was to be able to stand up on their own infrastructure so that we were gonna go buy, we did go buy a bunch of hardware. Problems with server hardware at scale [00:02:40] Bryan: And I remember just thinking, God, I hope Dell is somehow magically better. I hope the problems that we have seen in the small, we just. You know, I just remember hoping and hope is hope. It was of course, a terrible strategy and it was a terrible strategy here too. Uh, and the we that the problems that we saw at the large were, and when you scale out the problems that you see kind of once or twice, you now see all the time and they become absolutely debilitating. [00:03:12] Bryan: And we saw a whole series of really debilitating problems. I mean, many ways, like comically debilitating, uh, in terms of, of showing just how bad the state-of-the-art. Yes. And we had, I mean, it should be said, we had great software and great software expertise, um, and we were controlling our own system software. [00:03:35] Bryan: But even controlling your own system software, your own host OS, your own control plane, which is what we had at Joyent, ultimately, you're pretty limited. You go, I mean, you got the problems that you can obviously solve, the ones that are in your own software, but the problems that are beneath you, the, the problems that are in the hardware platform, the problems that are in the componentry beneath you become the problems that are in the firmware. IO latency due to hard drive firmware [00:04:00] Bryan: Those problems become unresolvable and they are deeply, deeply frustrating. Um, and we just saw a bunch of 'em again, they were. Comical in retrospect, and I'll give you like a, a couple of concrete examples just to give, give you an idea of what kinda what you're looking at. one of the, our data centers had really pathological IO latency. [00:04:23] Bryan: we had a very, uh, database heavy workload. And this was kind of right at the period where you were still deploying on rotating media on hard drives. So this is like, so. An all flash buy did not make economic sense when we did this in, in 2016. This probably, it'd be interesting to know like when was the, the kind of the last time that that actual hard drives made sense? [00:04:50] Bryan: 'cause I feel this was close to it. So we had a, a bunch of, of a pathological IO problems, but we had one data center in which the outliers were actually quite a bit worse and there was so much going on in that system. It took us a long time to figure out like why. And because when, when you, when you're io when you're seeing worse io I mean you're naturally, you wanna understand like what's the workload doing? [00:05:14] Bryan: You're trying to take a first principles approach. What's the workload doing? So this is a very intensive database workload to support the, the object storage system that we had built called Manta. And that the, the metadata tier was stored and uh, was we were using Postgres for that. And that was just getting absolutely slaughtered. [00:05:34] Bryan: Um, and ultimately very IO bound with these kind of pathological IO latencies. Uh, and as we, you know, trying to like peel away the layers to figure out what was going on. And I finally had this thing. So it's like, okay, we are seeing at the, at the device layer, at the at, at the disc layer, we are seeing pathological outliers in this data center that we're not seeing anywhere else. [00:06:00] Bryan: And that does not make any sense. And the thought occurred to me. I'm like, well, maybe we are. Do we have like different. Different rev of firmware on our HGST drives, HGST. Now part of WD Western Digital were the drives that we had everywhere. And, um, so maybe we had a different, maybe I had a firmware bug. [00:06:20] Bryan: I, this would not be the first time in my life at all that I would have a drive firmware issue. Uh, and I went to go pull the firmware, rev, and I'm like, Toshiba makes hard drives? So we had, I mean. I had no idea that Toshiba even made hard drives, let alone that they were our, they were in our data center. [00:06:38] Bryan: I'm like, what is this? And as it turns out, and this is, you know, part of the, the challenge when you don't have an integrated system, which not to pick on them, but Dell doesn't, and what Dell would routinely put just sub make substitutes, and they make substitutes that they, you know, it's kind of like you're going to like, I don't know, Instacart or whatever, and they're out of the thing that you want. [00:07:03] Bryan: So, you know, you're, someone makes a substitute and like sometimes that's okay, but it's really not okay in a data center. And you really want to develop and validate a, an end-to-end integrated system. And in this case, like Toshiba doesn't, I mean, Toshiba does make hard drives, but they are a, or the data they did, uh, they basically were, uh, not competitive and they were not competitive in part for the reasons that we were discovering. [00:07:29] Bryan: They had really serious firmware issues. So the, these were drives that would just simply stop a, a stop acknowledging any reads from the order of 2,700 milliseconds. Long time, 2.7 seconds. Um. And that was a, it was a drive firmware issue, but it was highlighted like a much deeper issue, which was the simple lack of control that we had over our own destiny. [00:07:53] Bryan: Um, and it's an, it's, it's an example among many where Dell is making a decision. That lowers the cost of what they are providing you marginally, but it is then giving you a system that they shouldn't have any confidence in because it's not one that they've actually designed and they leave it to the customer, the end user, to make these discoveries. [00:08:18] Bryan: And these things happen up and down the stack. And for every, for whether it's, and, and not just to pick on Dell because it's, it's true for HPE, it's true for super micro, uh, it's true for your switch vendors. It's, it's true for storage vendors where the, the, the, the one that is left actually integrating these things and trying to make the the whole thing work is the end user sitting in their data center. AWS / Google are not buying off the shelf hardware but you can't use it [00:08:42] Bryan: There's not a product that they can buy that gives them elastic infrastructure, a cloud in their own DC The, the product that you buy is the public cloud. Like when you go in the public cloud, you don't worry about the stuff because that it's, it's AWS's issue or it's GCP's issue. And they are the ones that get this to ground. [00:09:02] Bryan: And they, and this was kind of, you know, the eye-opening moment. Not a surprise. Uh, they are not Dell customers. They're not HPE customers. They're not super micro customers. They have designed their own machines. And to varying degrees, depending on which one you're looking at. But they've taken the clean sheet of paper and the frustration that we had kind of at Joyent and beginning to wonder and then Samsung and kind of wondering what was next, uh, is that, that what they built was not available for purchase in the data center. [00:09:35] Bryan: You could only rent it in the public cloud. And our big belief is that public cloud computing is a really important revolution in infrastructure. Doesn't feel like a different, a deep thought, but cloud computing is a really important revolution. It shouldn't only be available to rent. You should be able to actually buy it. [00:09:53] Bryan: And there are a bunch of reasons for doing that. Uh, one in the one we we saw at Samsung is economics, which I think is still the dominant reason where it just does not make sense to rent all of your compute in perpetuity. But there are other reasons too. There's security, there's risk management, there's latency. [00:10:07] Bryan: There are a bunch of reasons why one might wanna to own one's own infrastructure. But, uh, that was very much the, the, so the, the genesis for oxide was coming out of this very painful experience and a painful experience that, because, I mean, a long answer to your question about like what was it like to be at Samsung scale? [00:10:27] Bryan: Those are the kinds of things that we, I mean, in our other data centers, we didn't have Toshiba drives. We only had the HDSC drives, but it's only when you get to this larger scale that you begin to see some of these pathologies. But these pathologies then are really debilitating in terms of those who are trying to develop a service on top of them. [00:10:45] Bryan: So it was, it was very educational in, in that regard. And you're very grateful for the experience at Samsung in terms of opening our eyes to the challenge of running at that kind of scale. [00:10:57] Jeremy: Yeah, because I, I think as software engineers, a lot of times we, we treat the hardware as a, as a given where, [00:11:08] Bryan: Yeah. [00:11:08] Bryan: Yeah. There's software in chard drives [00:11:09] Jeremy: It sounds like in, in this case, I mean, maybe the issue is not so much that. Dell or HP as a company doesn't own every single piece that they're providing you, but rather the fact that they're swapping pieces in and out without advertising them, and then when it becomes a problem, they're not necessarily willing to, to deal with the, the consequences of that. [00:11:34] Bryan: They just don't know. I mean, I think they just genuinely don't know. I mean, I think that they, it's not like they're making a deliberate decision to kind of ship garbage. It's just that they are making, I mean, I think it's exactly what you said about like, not thinking about the hardware. It's like, what's a hard drive? [00:11:47] Bryan: Like what's it, I mean, it's a hard drive. It's got the same specs as this other hard drive and Intel. You know, it's a little bit cheaper, so why not? It's like, well, like there's some reasons why not, and one of the reasons why not is like, uh, even a hard drive, whether it's rotating media or, or flash, like that's not just hardware. [00:12:05] Bryan: There's software in there. And that the software's like not the same. I mean, there are components where it's like, there's actually, whether, you know, if, if you're looking at like a resistor or a capacitor or something like this Yeah. If you've got two, two parts that are within the same tolerance. Yeah. [00:12:19] Bryan: Like sure. Maybe, although even the EEs I think would be, would be, uh, objecting that a little bit. But the, the, the more complicated you get, and certainly once you get to the, the, the, the kind of the hardware that we think of like a, a, a microprocessor, a a network interface card, a a, a hard driver, an NVME drive. [00:12:38] Bryan: Those things are super complicated and there's a whole bunch of software inside of those things, the firmware, and that's the stuff that, that you can't, I mean, you say that software engineers don't think about that. It's like you, no one can really think about that because it's proprietary that's kinda welded shut and you've got this abstraction into it. [00:12:55] Bryan: But the, the way that thing operates is very core to how the thing in aggregate will behave. And I think that you, the, the kind of, the, the fundamental difference between Oxide's approach and the approach that you get at a Dell HP Supermicro, wherever, is really thinking holistically in terms of hardware and software together in a system that, that ultimately delivers cloud computing to a user. [00:13:22] Bryan: And there's a lot of software at many, many, many, many different layers. And it's very important to think about, about that software and that hardware holistically as a single system. [00:13:34] Jeremy: And during that time at Joyent, when you experienced some of these issues, was it more of a case of you didn't have enough servers experiencing this? So if it would happen, you might say like, well, this one's not working, so maybe we'll just replace the hardware. What, what was the thought process when you were working at that smaller scale and, and how did these issues affect you? UEFI / Baseboard Management Controller [00:13:58] Bryan: Yeah, at the smaller scale, you, uh, you see fewer of them, right? You just see it's like, okay, we, you know, what you might see is like, that's weird. We kinda saw this in one machine versus seeing it in a hundred or a thousand or 10,000. Um, so you just, you just see them, uh, less frequently as a result, they are less debilitating. [00:14:16] Bryan: Um, I, I think that it's, when you go to that larger scale, those things that become, that were unusual now become routine and they become debilitating. Um, so it, it really is in many regards a function of scale. Uh, and then I think it was also, you know, it was a little bit dispiriting that kind of the substrate we were building on really had not improved. [00:14:39] Bryan: Um, and if you look at, you know, the, if you buy a computer server, buy an x86 server. There is a very low layer of firmware, the BIOS, the basic input output system, the UEFI BIOS, and this is like an abstraction layer that has, has existed since the eighties and hasn't really meaningfully improved. Um, the, the kind of the transition to UEFI happened with, I mean, I, I ironically with Itanium, um, you know, two decades ago. [00:15:08] Bryan: but beyond that, like this low layer, this lowest layer of platform enablement software is really only impeding the operability of the system. Um, you look at the baseboard management controller, which is the kind of the computer within the computer, there is a, uh, there is an element in the machine that needs to handle environmentals, that needs to handle, uh, operate the fans and so on. [00:15:31] Bryan: Uh, and that traditionally has this, the space board management controller, and that architecturally just hasn't improved in the last two decades. And, you know, that's, it's a proprietary piece of silicon. Generally from a company that no one's ever heard of called a Speed, uh, which has to be, is written all on caps, so I guess it needs to be screamed. [00:15:50] Bryan: Um, a speed has a proprietary part that has a, there is a root password infamously there, is there, the root password is encoded effectively in silicon. So, uh, which is just, and for, um, anyone who kind of goes deep into these things, like, oh my God, are you kidding me? Um, when we first started oxide, the wifi password was a fraction of the a speed root password for the bmc. [00:16:16] Bryan: It's kinda like a little, little BMC humor. Um, but those things, it was just dispiriting that, that the, the state-of-the-art was still basically personal computers running in the data center. Um, and that's part of what, what was the motivation for doing something new? [00:16:32] Jeremy: And for the people using these systems, whether it's the baseboard management controller or it's the The BIOS or UF UEFI component, what are the actual problems that people are seeing seen? Security vulnerabilities and poor practices in the BMC [00:16:51] Bryan: Oh man, I, the, you are going to have like some fraction of your listeners, maybe a big fraction where like, yeah, like what are the problems? That's a good question. And then you're gonna have the people that actually deal with these things who are, did like their heads already hit the desk being like, what are the problems? [00:17:06] Bryan: Like what are the non problems? Like what, what works? Actually, that's like a shorter answer. Um, I mean, there are so many problems and a lot of it is just like, I mean, there are problems just architecturally these things are just so, I mean, and you could, they're the problems spread to the horizon, so you can kind of start wherever you want. [00:17:24] Bryan: But I mean, as like, as a really concrete example. Okay, so the, the BMCs that, that the computer within the computer that needs to be on its own network. So you now have like not one network, you got two networks that, and that network, by the way, it, that's the network that you're gonna log into to like reset the machine when it's otherwise unresponsive. [00:17:44] Bryan: So that going into the BMC, you can are, you're able to control the entire machine. Well it's like, alright, so now I've got a second net network that I need to manage. What is running on the BMC? Well, it's running some. Ancient, ancient version of Linux it that you got. It's like, well how do I, how do I patch that? [00:18:02] Bryan: How do I like manage the vulnerabilities with that? Because if someone is able to root your BMC, they control the system. So it's like, this is not you've, and now you've gotta go deal with all of the operational hair around that. How do you upgrade that system updating the BMC? I mean, it's like you've got this like second shadow bad infrastructure that you have to go manage. [00:18:23] Bryan: Generally not open source. There's something called open BMC, um, which, um, you people use to varying degrees, but you're generally stuck with the proprietary BMC, so you're generally stuck with, with iLO from HPE or iDRAC from Dell or, or, uh, the, uh, su super micros, BMC, that H-P-B-M-C, and you are, uh, it is just excruciating pain. [00:18:49] Bryan: Um, and that this is assuming that by the way, that everything is behaving correctly. The, the problem is that these things often don't behave correctly, and then the consequence of them not behaving correctly. It's really dire because it's at that lowest layer of the system. So, I mean, I'll give you a concrete example. [00:19:07] Bryan: a customer of theirs reported to me, so I won't disclose the vendor, but let's just say that a well-known vendor had an issue with their, their temperature sensors were broken. Um, and the thing would always read basically the wrong value. So it was the BMC that had to like, invent its own ki a different kind of thermal control loop. [00:19:28] Bryan: And it would index on the, on the, the, the, the actual inrush current. It would, they would look at that at the current that's going into the CPU to adjust the fan speed. That's a great example of something like that's a, that's an interesting idea. That doesn't work. 'cause that's actually not the temperature. [00:19:45] Bryan: So like that software would crank the fans whenever you had an inrush of current and this customer had a workload that would spike the current and by it, when it would spike the current, the, the, the fans would kick up and then they would slowly degrade over time. Well, this workload was spiking the current faster than the fans would degrade, but not fast enough to actually heat up the part. [00:20:08] Bryan: And ultimately over a very long time, in a very painful investigation, it's customer determined that like my fans are cranked in my data center for no reason. We're blowing cold air. And it's like that, this is on the order of like a hundred watts, a server of, of energy that you shouldn't be spending and like that ultimately what that go comes down to this kind of broken software hardware interface at the lowest layer that has real meaningful consequence, uh, in terms of hundreds of kilowatts, um, across a data center. So this stuff has, has very, very, very real consequence and it's such a shadowy world. Part of the reason that, that your listeners that have dealt with this, that our heads will hit the desk is because it is really aggravating to deal with problems with this layer. [00:21:01] Bryan: You, you feel powerless. You don't control or really see the software that's on them. It's generally proprietary. You are relying on your vendor. Your vendor is telling you that like, boy, I don't know. You're the only customer seeing this. I mean, the number of times I have heard that for, and I, I have pledged that we're, we're not gonna say that at oxide because it's such an unaskable thing to say like, you're the only customer saying this. [00:21:25] Bryan: It's like, it feels like, are you blaming me for my problem? Feels like you're blaming me for my problem? Um, and what you begin to realize is that to a degree, these folks are speaking their own truth because the, the folks that are running at real scale at Hyperscale, those folks aren't Dell, HP super micro customers. [00:21:46] Bryan: They're actually, they've done their own thing. So it's like, yeah, Dell's not seeing that problem, um, because they're not running at the same scale. Um, but when you do run, you only have to run at modest scale before these things just become. Overwhelming in terms of the, the headwind that they present to people that wanna deploy infrastructure. The problem is felt with just a few racks [00:22:05] Jeremy: Yeah, so maybe to help people get some perspective at, at what point do you think that people start noticing or start feeling these problems? Because I imagine that if you're just have a few racks or [00:22:22] Bryan: do you have a couple racks or the, or do you wonder or just wondering because No, no, no. I would think, I think anyone who deploys any number of servers, especially now, especially if your experience is only in the cloud, you're gonna be like, what the hell is this? I mean, just again, just to get this thing working at all. [00:22:39] Bryan: It is so it, it's so hairy and so congealed, right? It's not designed. Um, and it, it, it, it's accreted it and it's so obviously accreted that you are, I mean, nobody who is setting up a rack of servers is gonna think to themselves like, yes, this is the right way to go do it. This all makes sense because it's, it's just not, it, I, it feels like the kit, I mean, kit car's almost too generous because it implies that there's like a set of plans to work to in the end. [00:23:08] Bryan: Uh, I mean, it, it, it's a bag of bolts. It's a bunch of parts that you're putting together. And so even at the smallest scales, that stuff is painful. Just architecturally, it's painful at the small scale then, but at least you can get it working. I think the stuff that then becomes debilitating at larger scale are the things that are, are worse than just like, I can't, like this thing is a mess to get working. [00:23:31] Bryan: It's like the, the, the fan issue that, um, where you are now seeing this over, you know, hundreds of machines or thousands of machines. Um, so I, it is painful at more or less all levels of scale. There's, there is no level at which the, the, the pc, which is really what this is, this is a, the, the personal computer architecture from the 1980s and there is really no level of scale where that's the right unit. Running elastic infrastructure is the hardware but also, hypervisor, distributed database, api, etc [00:23:57] Bryan: I mean, where that's the right thing to go deploy, especially if what you are trying to run. Is elastic infrastructure, a cloud. Because the other thing is like we, we've kinda been talking a lot about that hardware layer. Like hardware is, is just the start. Like you actually gotta go put software on that and actually run that as elastic infrastructure. [00:24:16] Bryan: So you need a hypervisor. Yes. But you need a lot more than that. You, you need to actually, you, you need a distributed database, you need web endpoints. You need, you need a CLI, you need all the stuff that you need to actually go run an actual service of compute or networking or storage. I mean, and for, for compute, even for compute, there's a ton of work to be done. [00:24:39] Bryan: And compute is by far, I would say the simplest of the, of the three. When you look at like networks, network services, storage services, there's a whole bunch of stuff that you need to go build in terms of distributed systems to actually offer that as a cloud. So it, I mean, it is painful at more or less every LE level if you are trying to deploy cloud computing on. What's a control plane? [00:25:00] Jeremy: And for someone who doesn't have experience building or working with this type of infrastructure, when you talk about a control plane, what, what does that do in the context of this system? [00:25:16] Bryan: So control plane is the thing that is, that is everything between your API request and that infrastructure actually being acted upon. So you go say, Hey, I, I want a provision, a vm. Okay, great. We've got a whole bunch of things we're gonna provision with that. We're gonna provision a vm, we're gonna get some storage that's gonna go along with that, that's got a network storage service that's gonna come out of, uh, we've got a virtual network that we're gonna either create or attach to. [00:25:39] Bryan: We've got a, a whole bunch of things we need to go do for that. For all of these things, there are metadata components that need, we need to keep track of this thing that, beyond the actual infrastructure that we create. And then we need to go actually, like act on the actual compute elements, the hostos, what have you, the switches, what have you, and actually go. [00:25:56] Bryan: Create these underlying things and then connect them. And there's of course, the challenge of just getting that working is a big challenge. Um, but getting that working robustly, getting that working is, you know, when you go to provision of vm, um, the, all the, the, the steps that need to happen and what happens if one of those steps fails along the way? [00:26:17] Bryan: What happens if, you know, one thing we're very mindful of is these kind of, you get these long tails of like, why, you know, generally our VM provisioning happened within this time, but we get these long tails where it takes much longer. What's going on? What, where in this process are we, are we actually spending time? [00:26:33] Bryan: Uh, and there's a whole lot of complexity that you need to go deal with that. There's a lot of complexity that you need to go deal with this effectively, this workflow that's gonna go create these things and manage them. Um, we use a, a pattern that we call, that are called sagas, actually is a, is a database pattern from the eighties. [00:26:51] Bryan: Uh, Katie McCaffrey is a, is a database reCrcher who, who, uh, I, I think, uh, reintroduce the idea of, of sagas, um, in the last kind of decade. Um, and this is something that we picked up, um, and I've done a lot of really interesting things with, um, to allow for, to this kind of, these workflows to be, to be managed and done so robustly in a way that you can restart them and so on. [00:27:16] Bryan: Uh, and then you guys, you get this whole distributed system that can do all this. That whole distributed system, that itself needs to be reliable and available. So if you, you know, you need to be able to, what happens if you, if you pull a sled or if a sled fails, how does the system deal with that? [00:27:33] Bryan: How does the system deal with getting an another sled added to the system? Like how do you actually grow this distributed system? And then how do you update it? How do you actually go from one version to the next? And all of that has to happen across an air gap where this is gonna run as part of the computer. [00:27:49] Bryan: So there are, it, it is fractally complicated. There, there is a lot of complexity here in, in software, in the software system and all of that. We kind of, we call the control plane. Um, and it, this is the what exists at AWS at GCP, at Azure. When you are hitting an endpoint that's provisioning an EC2 instance for you. [00:28:10] Bryan: There is an AWS control plane that is, is doing all of this and has, uh, some of these similar aspects and certainly some of these similar challenges. Are vSphere / Proxmox / Hyper-V in the same category? [00:28:20] Jeremy: And for people who have run their own servers with something like say VMware or Hyper V or Proxmox, are those in the same category? [00:28:32] Bryan: Yeah, I mean a little bit. I mean, it kind of like vSphere Yes. Via VMware. No. So it's like you, uh, VMware ESX is, is kind of a key building block upon which you can build something that is a more meaningful distributed system. When it's just like a machine that you're provisioning VMs on, it's like, okay, well that's actually, you as the human might be the control plane. [00:28:52] Bryan: Like, that's, that, that's, that's a much easier problem. Um, but when you've got, you know, tens, hundreds, thousands of machines, you need to do it robustly. You need something to coordinate that activity and you know, you need to pick which sled you land on. You need to be able to move these things. You need to be able to update that whole system. [00:29:06] Bryan: That's when you're getting into a control plane. So, you know, some of these things have kind of edged into a control plane, certainly VMware. Um, now Broadcom, um, has delivered something that's kind of cloudish. Um, I think that for folks that are truly born on the cloud, it, it still feels somewhat, uh, like you're going backwards in time when you, when you look at these kind of on-prem offerings. [00:29:29] Bryan: Um, but, but it, it, it's got these aspects to it for sure. Um, and I think that we're, um, some of these other things when you're just looking at KVM or just looks looking at Proxmox you kind of need to, to connect it to other broader things to turn it into something that really looks like manageable infrastructure. [00:29:47] Bryan: And then many of those projects are really, they're either proprietary projects, uh, proprietary products like vSphere, um, or you are really dealing with open source projects that are. Not necessarily aimed at the same level of scale. Um, you know, you look at a, again, Proxmox or, uh, um, you'll get an OpenStack. [00:30:05] Bryan: Um, and you know, OpenStack is just a lot of things, right? I mean, OpenStack has got so many, the OpenStack was kind of a, a free for all, for every infrastructure vendor. Um, and I, you know, there was a time people were like, don't you, aren't you worried about all these companies together that, you know, are coming together for OpenStack? [00:30:24] Bryan: I'm like, haven't you ever worked for like a company? Like, companies don't get along. By the way, it's like having multiple companies work together on a thing that's bad news, not good news. And I think, you know, one of the things that OpenStack has definitely struggled with, kind of with what, actually the, the, there's so many different kind of vendor elements in there that it's, it's very much not a product, it's a project that you're trying to run. [00:30:47] Bryan: But that's, but that very much is in, I mean, that's, that's similar certainly in spirit. [00:30:53] Jeremy: And so I think this is kind of like you're alluding to earlier, the piece that allows you to allocate, compute, storage, manage networking, gives you that experience of I can go to a web console or I can use an API and I can spin up machines, get them all connected. At the end of the day, the control plane. Is allowing you to do that in hopefully a user-friendly way. [00:31:21] Bryan: That's right. Yep. And in the, I mean, in order to do that in a modern way, it's not just like a user-friendly way. You really need to have a CLI and a web UI and an API. Those all need to be drawn from the same kind of single ground truth. Like you don't wanna have any of those be an afterthought for the other. [00:31:39] Bryan: You wanna have the same way of generating all of those different endpoints and, and entries into the system. Building a control plane now has better tools (Rust, CockroachDB) [00:31:46] Jeremy: And if you take your time at Joyent as an example. What kind of tools existed for that versus how much did you have to build in-house for as far as the hypervisor and managing the compute and all that? [00:32:02] Bryan: Yeah, so we built more or less everything in house. I mean, what you have is, um, and I think, you know, over time we've gotten slightly better tools. Um, I think, and, and maybe it's a little bit easier to talk about the, kind of the tools we started at Oxide because we kind of started with a, with a clean sheet of paper at oxide. [00:32:16] Bryan: We wanted to, knew we wanted to go build a control plane, but we were able to kind of go revisit some of the components. So actually, and maybe I'll, I'll talk about some of those changes. So when we, at, For example, at Joyent, when we were building a cloud at Joyent, there wasn't really a good distributed database. [00:32:34] Bryan: Um, so we were using Postgres as our database for metadata and there were a lot of challenges. And Postgres is not a distributed database. It's running. With a primary secondary architecture, and there's a bunch of issues there, many of which we discovered the hard way. Um, when we were coming to oxide, you have much better options to pick from in terms of distributed databases. [00:32:57] Bryan: You know, we, there was a period that now seems maybe potentially brief in hindsight, but of a really high quality open source distributed databases. So there were really some good ones to, to pick from. Um, we, we built on CockroachDB on CRDB. Um, so that was a really important component. That we had at oxide that we didn't have at Joyent. [00:33:19] Bryan: Um, so we were, I wouldn't say we were rolling our own distributed database, we were just using Postgres and uh, and, and dealing with an enormous amount of pain there in terms of the surround. Um, on top of that, and, and, you know, a, a control plane is much more than a database, obviously. Uh, and you've gotta deal with, uh, there's a whole bunch of software that you need to go, right. [00:33:40] Bryan: Um, to be able to, to transform these kind of API requests into something that is reliable infrastructure, right? And there, there's a lot to that. Uh, especially when networking gets in the mix, when storage gets in the mix, uh, there are a whole bunch of like complicated steps that need to be done, um, at Joyent. [00:33:59] Bryan: Um, we, in part because of the history of the company and like, look. This, this just is not gonna sound good, but it just is what it is and I'm just gonna own it. We did it all in Node, um, at Joyent, which I, I, I know it sounds really right now, just sounds like, well, you, you built it with Tinker Toys. You Okay. [00:34:18] Bryan: Uh, did, did you think it was, you built the skyscraper with Tinker Toys? Uh, it's like, well, okay. We actually, we had greater aspirations for the Tinker Toys once upon a time, and it was better than, you know, than Twisted Python and Event Machine from Ruby, and we weren't gonna do it in Java. All right. [00:34:32] Bryan: So, but let's just say that that experiment, uh, that experiment did ultimately end in a predictable fashion. Um, and, uh, we, we decided that maybe Node was not gonna be the best decision long term. Um, Joyent was the company behind node js. Uh, back in the day, Ryan Dahl worked for Joyent. Uh, and then, uh, then we, we, we. [00:34:53] Bryan: Uh, landed that in a foundation in about, uh, what, 2015, something like that. Um, and began to consider our world beyond, uh, beyond Node. Rust at Oxide [00:35:04] Bryan: A big tool that we had in the arsenal when we started Oxide is Rust. Um, and so indeed the name of the company is, is a tip of the hat to the language that we were pretty sure we were gonna be building a lot of stuff in. [00:35:16] Bryan: Namely Rust. And, uh, rust is, uh, has been huge for us, a very important revolution in programming languages. you know, there, there, there have been different people kind of coming in at different times and I kinda came to Rust in what I, I think is like this big kind of second expansion of rust in 2018 when a lot of technologists were think, uh, sick of Node and also sick of Go. [00:35:43] Bryan: And, uh, also sick of C++. And wondering is there gonna be something that gives me the, the, the performance, of that I get outta C. The, the robustness that I can get out of a C program but is is often difficult to achieve. but can I get that with kind of some, some of the velocity of development, although I hate that term, some of the speed of development that you get out of a more interpreted language. [00:36:08] Bryan: Um, and then by the way, can I actually have types, I think types would be a good idea? Uh, and rust obviously hits the sweet spot of all of that. Um, it has been absolutely huge for us. I mean, we knew when we started the company again, oxide, uh, we were gonna be using rust in, in quite a, quite a. Few places, but we weren't doing it by fiat. [00:36:27] Bryan: Um, we wanted to actually make sure we're making the right decision, um, at, at every different, at every layer. Uh, I think what has been surprising is the sheer number of layers at which we use rust in terms of, we've done our own embedded firmware in rust. We've done, um, in, in the host operating system, which is still largely in C, but very big components are in rust. [00:36:47] Bryan: The hypervisor Propolis is all in rust. Uh, and then of course the control plane, that distributed system on that is all in rust. So that was a very important thing that we very much did not need to build ourselves. We were able to really leverage, uh, a terrific community. Um. We were able to use, uh, and we've done this at Joyent as well, but at Oxide, we've used Illumos as a hostos component, which, uh, our variant is called Helios. [00:37:11] Bryan: Um, we've used, uh, bhyve um, as a, as as that kind of internal hypervisor component. we've made use of a bunch of different open source components to build this thing, um, which has been really, really important for us. Uh, and open source components that didn't exist even like five years prior. [00:37:28] Bryan: That's part of why we felt that 2019 was the right time to start the company. And so we started Oxide. The problems building a control plane in Node [00:37:34] Jeremy: You had mentioned that at Joyent, you had tried to build this in, in Node. What were the, what were the, the issues or the, the challenges that you had doing that? [00:37:46] Bryan: Oh boy. Yeah. again, we, I kind of had higher hopes in 2010, I would say. When we, we set on this, um, the, the, the problem that we had just writ large, um. JavaScript is really designed to allow as many people on earth to write a program as possible, which is good. I mean, I, I, that's a, that's a laudable goal. [00:38:09] Bryan: That is the goal ultimately of such as it is of JavaScript. It's actually hard to know what the goal of JavaScript is, unfortunately, because Brendan Ike never actually wrote a book. so that there is not a canonical, you've got kind of Doug Crockford and other people who've written things on JavaScript, but it's hard to know kind of what the original intent of JavaScript is. [00:38:27] Bryan: The name doesn't even express original intent, right? It was called Live Script, and it was kind of renamed to JavaScript during the Java Frenzy of the late nineties. A name that makes no sense. There is no Java in JavaScript. that is kind of, I think, revealing to kind of the, uh, the unprincipled mess that is JavaScript. [00:38:47] Bryan: It, it, it's very pragmatic at some level, um, and allows anyone to, it makes it very easy to write software. The problem is it's much more difficult to write really rigorous software. So, uh, and this is what I should differentiate JavaScript from TypeScript. This is really what TypeScript is trying to solve. [00:39:07] Bryan: TypeScript is like. How can, I think TypeScript is a, is a great step forward because TypeScript is like, how can we bring some rigor to this? Like, yes, it's great that it's easy to write JavaScript, but that's not, we, we don't wanna do that for Absolutely. I mean that, that's not the only problem we solve. [00:39:23] Bryan: We actually wanna be able to write rigorous software and it's actually okay if it's a little harder to write rigorous software that's actually okay if it gets leads to, to more rigorous artifacts. Um, but in JavaScript, I mean, just a concrete example. You know, there's nothing to prevent you from referencing a property that doesn't actually exist in JavaScript. [00:39:43] Bryan: So if you fat finger a property name, you are relying on something to tell you. By the way, I think you've misspelled this because there is no type definition for this thing. And I don't know that you've got one that's spelled correctly, one that's spelled incorrectly, that's often undefined. And then the, when you actually go, you say you've got this typo that is lurking in your what you want to be rigorous software. [00:40:07] Bryan: And if you don't execute that code, like you won't know that's there. And then you do execute that code. And now you've got a, you've got an undefined object. And now that's either gonna be an exception or it can, again, depends on how that's handled. It can be really difficult to determine the origin of that, of, of that error, of that programming. [00:40:26] Bryan: And that is a programmer error. And one of the big challenges that we had with Node is that programmer errors and operational errors, like, you know, I'm out of disk space as an operational error. Those get conflated and it becomes really hard. And in fact, I think the, the language wanted to make it easier to just kind of, uh, drive on in the event of all errors. [00:40:53] Bryan: And it's like, actually not what you wanna do if you're trying to build a reliable, robust system. So we had. No end of issues. [00:41:01] Bryan: We've got a lot of experience developing rigorous systems, um, again coming out of operating systems development and so on. And we want, we brought some of that rigor, if strangely, to JavaScript. So one of the things that we did is we brought a lot of postmortem, diagnos ability and observability to node. [00:41:18] Bryan: And so if, if one of our node processes. Died in production, we would actually get a core dump from that process, a core dump that we could actually meaningfully process. So we did a bunch of kind of wild stuff. I mean, actually wild stuff where we could actually make sense of the JavaScript objects in a binary core dump. JavaScript values ease of getting started over robustness [00:41:41] Bryan: Um, and things that we thought were really important, and this is the, the rest of the world just looks at this being like, what the hell is this? I mean, it's so out of step with it. The problem is that we were trying to bridge two disconnected cultures of one developing really. Rigorous software and really designing it for production, diagnosability and the other, really designing it to software to run in the browser and for anyone to be able to like, you know, kind of liven up a webpage, right? [00:42:10] Bryan: Is kinda the origin of, of live script and then JavaScript. And we were kind of the only ones sitting at the intersection of that. And you begin when you are the only ones sitting at that kind of intersection. You just are, you're, you're kind of fighting a community all the time. And we just realized that we are, there were so many things that the community wanted to do that we felt are like, no, no, this is gonna make software less diagnosable. It's gonna make it less robust. The NodeJS split and why people left [00:42:36] Bryan: And then you realize like, I'm, we're the only voice in the room because we have got, we have got desires for this language that it doesn't have for itself. And this is when you realize you're in a bad relationship with software. It's time to actually move on. And in fact, actually several years after, we'd already kind of broken up with node. [00:42:55] Bryan: Um, and it was like, it was a bit of an acrimonious breakup. there was a, uh, famous slash infamous fork of node called IoJS Um, and this was viewed because people, the community, thought that Joyent was being what was not being an appropriate steward of node js and was, uh, not allowing more things to come into to, to node. [00:43:19] Bryan: And of course, the reason that we of course, felt that we were being a careful steward and we were actively resisting those things that would cut against its fitness for a production system. But it's some way the community saw it and they, and forked, um, and, and I think the, we knew before the fork that's like, this is not working and we need to get this thing out of our hands. Platform is a reflection of values node summit talk [00:43:43] Bryan: And we're are the wrong hands for this? This needs to be in a foundation. Uh, and so we kind of gone through that breakup, uh, and maybe it was two years after that. That, uh, friend of mine who was um, was running the, uh, the node summit was actually, it's unfortunately now passed away. Charles er, um, but Charles' venture capitalist great guy, and Charles was running Node Summit and came to me in 2017. [00:44:07] Bryan: He is like, I really want you to keynote Node Summit. And I'm like, Charles, I'm not gonna do that. I've got nothing nice to say. Like, this is the, the, you don't want, I'm the last person you wanna keynote. He's like, oh, if you have nothing nice to say, you should definitely keynote. You're like, oh God, okay, here we go. [00:44:22] Bryan: He's like, no, I really want you to talk about, like, you should talk about the Joyent breakup with NodeJS. I'm like, oh man. [00:44:29] Bryan: And that led to a talk that I'm really happy that I gave, 'cause it was a very important talk for me personally. Uh, called Platform is a reflection of values and really looking at the values that we had for Node and the values that Node had for itself. And they didn't line up. [00:44:49] Bryan: And the problem is that the values that Node had for itself and the values that we had for Node are all kind of positives, right? Like there's nobody in the node community who's like, I don't want rigor, I hate rigor. It's just that if they had the choose between rigor and making the language approachable. [00:45:09] Bryan: They would choose approachability every single time. They would never choose rigor. And, you know, that was a, that was a big eye-opener. I do, I would say, if you watch this talk. [00:45:20] Bryan: because I knew that there's, like, the audience was gonna be filled with, with people who, had been a part of the fork in 2014, I think was the, the, the, the fork, the IOJS fork. And I knew that there, there were, there were some, you know, some people that were, um, had been there for the fork and. [00:45:41] Bryan: I said a little bit of a trap for the audience. But the, and the trap, I said, you know what, I, I kind of talked about the values that we had and the aspirations we had for Node, the aspirations that Node had for itself and how they were different. [00:45:53] Bryan: And, you know, and I'm like, look in, in, in hindsight, like a fracture was inevitable. And in 2014 there was finally a fracture. And do people know what happened in 2014? And if you, if you, you could listen to that talk, everyone almost says in unison, like IOJS. I'm like, oh right. IOJS. Right. That's actually not what I was thinking of. [00:46:19] Bryan: And I go to the next slide and is a tweet from a guy named TJ Holloway, Chuck, who was the most prolific contributor to Node. And it was his tweet also in 2014 before the fork, before the IOJS fork explaining that he was leaving Node and that he was going to go. And you, if you turn the volume all the way up, you can hear the audience gasp. [00:46:41] Bryan: And it's just delicious because the community had never really come, had never really confronted why TJ left. Um, there. And I went through a couple folks, Felix, bunch of other folks, early Node folks. That were there in 2010, were leaving in 2014, and they were going to go primarily, and they were going to go because they were sick of the same things that we were sick of. [00:47:09] Bryan: They, they, they had hit the same things that we had hit and they were frustrated. I I really do believe this, that platforms do reflect their own values. And when you are making a software decision, you are selecting value. [00:47:26] Bryan: You should select values that align with the values that you have for that software. That is, those are, that's way more important than other things that people look at. I think people look at, for example, quote unquote community size way too frequently, community size is like. Eh, maybe it can be fine. [00:47:44] Bryan: I've been in very large communities, node. I've been in super small open source communities like AUMs and RAs, a bunch of others. there are strengths and weaknesses to both approaches just as like there's a strength to being in a big city versus a small town. Me personally, I'll take the small community more or less every time because the small community is almost always self-selecting based on values and just for the same reason that I like working at small companies or small teams. [00:48:11] Bryan: There's a lot of value to be had in a small community. It's not to say that large communities are valueless, but again, long answer to your question of kind of where did things go south with Joyent and node. They went south because the, the values that we had and the values the community had didn't line up and that was a very educational experience, as you might imagine. [00:48:33] Jeremy: Yeah. And, and given that you mentioned how, because of those values, some people moved from Node to go, and in the end for much of what oxide is building. You ended up using rust. What, what would you say are the, the values of go and and rust, and how did you end up choosing Rust given that. Go's decisions regarding generics, versioning, compilation speed priority [00:48:56] Bryan: Yeah, I mean, well, so the value for, yeah. And so go, I mean, I understand why people move from Node to Go, go to me was kind of a lateral move. Um, there were a bunch of things that I, uh, go was still garbage collected, um, which I didn't like. Um, go also is very strange in terms of there are these kind of like. [00:49:17] Bryan: These autocratic kind of decisions that are very bizarre. Um, there, I mean, generics is kind of a famous one, right? Where go kind of as a point of principle didn't have generics, even though go itself actually the innards of go did have generics. It's just that you a go user weren't allowed to have them. [00:49:35] Bryan: And you know, it's kind of, there was, there was an old cartoon years and years ago about like when a, when a technologist is telling you that something is technically impossible, that actually means I don't feel like it. Uh, and there was a certain degree of like, generics are technically impossible and go, it's like, Hey, actually there are. [00:49:51] Bryan: And so there was, and I just think that the arguments against generics were kind of disingenuous. Um, and indeed, like they ended up adopting generics and then there's like some super weird stuff around like, they're very anti-assertion, which is like, what, how are you? Why are you, how is someone against assertions, it doesn't even make any sense, but it's like, oh, nope. [00:50:10] Bryan: Okay. There's a whole scree on it. Nope, we're against assertions and the, you know, against versioning. There was another thing like, you know, the Rob Pike has kind of famously been like, you should always just run on the way to commit. And you're like, does that, is that, does that make sense? I mean this, we actually built it. [00:50:26] Bryan: And so there are a bunch of things like that. You're just like, okay, this is just exhausting and. I mean, there's some things about Go that are great and, uh, plenty of other things that I just, I'm not a fan of. Um, I think that the, in the end, like Go cares a lot about like compile time. It's super important for Go Right? [00:50:44] Bryan: Is very quick, compile time. I'm like, okay. But that's like compile time is not like, it's not unimportant, it's doesn't have zero importance. But I've got other things that are like lots more important than that. Um, what I really care about is I want a high performing artifact. I wanted garbage collection outta my life. Don't think garbage collection has good trade offs [00:51:00] Bryan: I, I gotta tell you, I, I like garbage collection to me is an embodiment of this like, larger problem of where do you put cognitive load in the software development process. And what garbage collection is saying to me it is right for plenty of other people and the software that they wanna develop. [00:51:21] Bryan: But for me and the software that I wanna develop, infrastructure software, I don't want garbage collection because I can solve the memory allocation problem. I know when I'm like, done with something or not. I mean, it's like I, whether that's in, in C with, I mean it's actually like, it's really not that hard to not leak memory in, in a C base system. [00:51:44] Bryan: And you can. give yourself a lot of tooling that allows you to diagnose where memory leaks are coming from. So it's like that is a solvable problem. There are other challenges with that, but like, when you are developing a really sophisticated system that has garbage collection is using garbage collection. [00:51:59] Bryan: You spend as much time trying to dork with the garbage collector to convince it to collect the thing that you know is garbage. You are like, I've got this thing. I know it's garbage. Now I need to use these like tips and tricks to get the garbage collector. I mean, it's like, it feels like every Java performance issue goes to like minus xx call and use the other garbage collector, whatever one you're using, use a different one and using a different, a different approach. [00:52:23] Bryan: It's like, so you're, you're in this, to me, it's like you're in the worst of all worlds where. the reason that garbage collection is helpful is because the programmer doesn't have to think at all about this problem. But now you're actually dealing with these long pauses in production. [00:52:38] Bryan: You're dealing with all these other issues where actually you need to think a lot about it. And it's kind of, it, it it's witchcraft. It, it, it's this black box that you can't see into. So it's like, what problem have we solved exactly? And I mean, so the fact that go had garbage collection, it's like, eh, no, I, I do not want, like, and then you get all the other like weird fatwahs and you know, everything else. [00:52:57] Bryan: I'm like, no, thank you. Go is a no thank you for me, I, I get it why people like it or use it, but it's, it's just, that was not gonna be it. Choosing Rust [00:53:04] Bryan: I'm like, I want C. but I, there are things I didn't like about C too. I was looking for something that was gonna give me the deterministic kind of artifact that I got outta C. But I wanted library support and C is tough because there's, it's all convention. you know, there's just a bunch of other things that are just thorny. And I remember thinking vividly in 2018, I'm like, well, it's rust or bust. Ownership model, algebraic types, error handling [00:53:28] Bryan: I'm gonna go into rust. And, uh, I hope I like it because if it's not this, it's gonna like, I'm gonna go back to C I'm like literally trying to figure out what the language is for the back half of my career. Um, and when I, you know, did what a lot of people were doing at that time and people have been doing since of, you know, really getting into rust and really learning it, appreciating the difference in the, the model for sure, the ownership model people talk about. [00:53:54] Bryan: That's also obviously very important. It was the error handling that blew me away. And the idea of like algebraic types, I never really had algebraic types. Um, and the ability to, to have. And for error handling is one of these really, uh, you, you really appreciate these things where it's like, how do you deal with a, with a function that can either succeed and return something or it can fail, and the way c deals with that is bad with these kind of sentinels for errors. [00:54:27] Bryan: And, you know, does negative one mean success? Does negative one mean failure? Does zero mean failure? Some C functions, zero means failure. Traditionally in Unix, zero means success. And like, what if you wanna return a file descriptor, you know, it's like, oh. And then it's like, okay, then it'll be like zero through positive N will be a valid result. [00:54:44] Bryan: Negative numbers will be, and like, was it negative one and I said airo, or is it a negative number that did not, I mean, it's like, and that's all convention, right? People do all, all those different things and it's all convention and it's easy to get wrong, easy to have bugs, can't be statically checked and so on. Um, and then what Go says is like, well, you're gonna have like two return values and then you're gonna have to like, just like constantly check all of these all the time. Um, which is also kind of gross. Um, JavaScript is like, Hey, let's toss an exception. If, if we don't like something, if we see an error, we'll, we'll throw an exception. [00:55:15] Bryan: There are a bunch of reasons I don't like that. Um, and you look, you'll get what Rust does, where it's like, no, no, no. We're gonna have these algebra types, which is to say this thing can be a this thing or that thing, but it, but it has to be one of these. And by the way, you don't get to process this thing until you conditionally match on one of these things. [00:55:35] Bryan: You're gonna have to have a, a pattern match on this thing to determine if it's a this or a that, and if it in, in the result type that you, the result is a generic where it's like, it's gonna be either the thing that you wanna return. It's gonna be an okay that contains the thing you wanna return, or it's gonna be an error that contains your error and it forces your code to deal with that. [00:55:57] Bryan: And what that does is it shifts the cognitive load from the person that is operating this thing in production to the, the actual developer that is in development. And I think that that, that to me is like, I, I love that shift. Um, and that shift to me is really important. Um, and that's what I was missing, that that's what Rust gives you. [00:56:23] Bryan: Rust forces you to think about your code as you write it, but as a result, you have an artifact that is much more supportable, much more sustainable, and much faster. Prefer to frontload cognitive load during development instead of at runtime [00:56:34] Jeremy: Yeah, it sounds like you would rather take the time during the development to think about these issues because whether it's garbage collection or it's error handling at runtime when you're trying to solve a problem, then it's much more difficult than having dealt with it to start with. [00:56:57] Bryan: Yeah, absolutely. I, and I just think that like, why also, like if it's software, if it's, again, if it's infrastructure software, I mean the kinda the question that you, you should have when you're writing software is how long is this software gonna live? How many people are gonna use this software? Uh, and if you are writing an operating system, the answer for this thing that you're gonna write, it's gonna live for a long time. [00:57:18] Bryan: Like, if we just look at plenty of aspects of the system that have been around for a, for decades, it's gonna live for a long time and many, many, many people are gonna use it. Why would we not expect people writing that software to have more cognitive load when they're writing it to give us something that's gonna be a better artifact? [00:57:38] Bryan: Now conversely, you're like, Hey, I kind of don't care about this. And like, I don't know, I'm just like, I wanna see if this whole thing works. I've got, I like, I'm just stringing this together. I don't like, no, the software like will be lucky if it survives until tonight, but then like, who cares? Yeah. Yeah. [00:57:52] Bryan: Gar garbage clock. You know, if you're prototyping something, whatever. And this is why you really do get like, you know, different choices, different technology choices, depending on the way that you wanna solve the problem at hand. And for the software that I wanna write, I do like that cognitive load that is upfront. With LLMs maybe you can get the benefit of the robust artifact with less cognitive load [00:58:10] Bryan: Um, and although I think, I think the thing that is really wild that is the twist that I don't think anyone really saw coming is that in a, in an LLM age. That like the cognitive load upfront almost needs an asterisk on it because so much of that can be assisted by an LLM. And now, I mean, I would like to believe, and maybe this is me being optimistic, that the the, in the LLM age, we will see, I mean, rust is a great fit for the LLMH because the LLM itself can get a lot of feedback about whether the software that's written is correct or not. [00:58:44] Bryan: Much more so than you can for other environments. [00:58:48] Jeremy: Yeah, that is a interesting point in that I think when people first started trying out the LLMs to code, it was really good at these maybe looser languages like Python or JavaScript, and initially wasn't so good at something like Rust. But it sounds like as that improves, if. It can write it then because of the rigor or the memory management or the error handling that the language is forcing you to do, it might actually end up being a better choice for people using LLMs. [00:59:27] Bryan: absolutely. I, it, it gives you more certainty in the artifact that you've delivered. I mean, you know a lot about a Rust program that compiles correctly. I mean, th there are certain classes of errors that you don't have, um, that you actually don't know on a C program or a GO program or a, a JavaScript program. [00:59:46] Bryan: I think that's gonna be really important. I think we are on the cusp. Maybe we've already seen it, this kind of great bifurcation in the software that we writ

Level up your B2B marketing and build a brand that actually stands out: subscribe to the Pipe Dream podcast from B2B Better for narrative-driven B2B marketing strategy, media-led content ideas, and practical GTM frameworks from host Jason Bradwell. If "thinking like a media company" feels like empty advice, this episode shows you exactly what it means in practice. In this episode of Pipe Dream, host Jason Bradwell sits down with David Rowlands, Head of Product at B2B Marketing and Propolis, to unpack how a traditional magazine and events business transformed into a community-led subscription media model during the pandemic. David's core point is clear: in a world flooded with AI-generated content and collapsing trust, B2B marketers need to move beyond helpful content and start creating valuable, memorable work. The kind buyers remember weeks later because it's built on proprietary data, real CMO conversations, and peer learning you can't get anywhere else. When COVID-19 hit, B2B Marketing's events business went on indefinite hold overnight. At the same time, digital publishing barriers disappeared and trust collapsed. Anyone could write a blog or publish a report, creating massive noise. B2B marketers needed a place to get clear answers and learn from peers without sorting through the chaos. That's how Propolis was born. B2B Marketing formalised their Leaders Program into a subscription model around expert advisory, private community, and proprietary benchmarking. Instead of competing on helpful content anyone could replicate, they built something AI fundamentally can't: genuine community combined with anonymized member data that powers insights like the Propolis Community Index. David explains why this matters beyond B2B Marketing. The brands winning attention aren't publishing more content, they're creating distinctive IP that connects community, insights, training, and events into one ecosystem. And heading into 2026, measurement and attribution remain the core challenge, not because the tools don't exist, but because proving marketing's commercial impact still feels like an uphill battle. The conversation also covers what AI means for B2B marketing teams right now. While 91% of marketers are experimenting with AI, the real challenge isn't adoption, it's knowing where AI helps versus where it creates problems. The marketers struggling most are stuck in lead generation mode, unable to have strategic conversations about marketing's actual impact on revenue. If you want a blueprint for building a media-first B2B strategy without the "more content" trap, this is it. Chapter Markers 00:00 - Introduction: David Rowlands and the transformation of B2B Marketing  02:00 - From editorial assistant to Head of Product during COVID  03:00 - The pivot moment: Events disappear and trust collapses  05:00 - How Propolis was born from the Leaders Program  07:00 - What "thinking like a media company" actually means  11:00 - Building the Propolis Community Index with anonymized member data  16:00 - Helpful versus valuable content: Creating memorable work  21:00 - Why proprietary data and community can't be replicated by AI  26:00 - The AI content flood and how to differentiate 30:00 - Measurement and attribution challenges heading into 2026  33:00 - Skills marketers need: Communication and financial acumen  36:00 - Why junior marketers need these skills more than anyone  38:00 - Where to learn more about Propolis and B2B Marketing Useful Links Connect with Jason Bradwell on LinkedIn Connect with David Rowlands on LinkedIn Explore Propolis and the Propolis Community Index Visit B2B Marketing Listen to The B2B Marketing Podcast Explore B2B Better website and the Pipe Dream podcast

On this episode of Vitality Radio, Jared sits down with returning guest Jamie Cotter, national educator for WishGarden Herbs, to break down immunity in a way that actually makes sense. Instead of treating the immune system as a one-size-fits-all problem, Jamie explains the four distinct phases of immunity—daily immune maintenance, early onset, active illness, and recovery—and why each phase benefits from a different herbal strategy. You'll learn how tonic herbs support baseline immune resilience, why timing and dosing matter when symptoms first appear, and how targeted herbal formulas can support the body during active immune challenges and lingering recovery phases. This episode empowers listeners to better understand their own immune responses and make informed choices about herbal support, seasonal wellness routines, and immune preparedness—without fear, hype, or guesswork.Products Discussed:Daily ImmuneKick-Ass ImmuneSerious V-FighterDeep LungKick-Ass BioticGet Over It!Buy 4 or more Wishgarden products from HERE and get 25% off through March 7, 2026!Visit the podcast website here: VitalityRadio.comYou can follow @vitalitynutritionbountiful and @vitalityradio on Instagram, or Vitality Radio and Vitality Nutrition on Facebook. Join us also in the Vitality Radio Podcast Listener Community on Facebook. Shop the products that Jared mentions at vitalitynutrition.com. Let us know your thoughts about this episode using the hashtag #vitalityradio and please rate and review us on Apple Podcasts. Thank you!Just a reminder that this podcast is for educational purposes only. The FDA has not evaluated the podcast. The information is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease. The advice given is not intended to replace the advice of your medical professional.

durée : 00:29:59 - Bienvenue chez vous, l'invité - Olivier Fleury, apiculteur et apithérapeute du GDSA 07,a parlé avec vous des propriétés des produits de la ruche et notamment de celles des miels tout en abordant les aspects pratiques, leurs utilisations, conservation...et tous les avantages de s'approvisionner localement en circuits courts. Vous aimez ce podcast ? Pour écouter tous les autres épisodes sans limite, rendez-vous sur Radio France.

Send us a textSarah and The Shrub (a particularly good one!) expand on honey by putting their paws in pots of fermented honey, honeydew, and propolis -- figuratively, of course. Also, how do sober communities respond to or offer invitations for celebration and community without the classic one liner "can I buy you a drink?"***https://www.youtube.com/shorts/s_mk7zGYDA8https://www.diffordsguide.com/g/1109/honey-and-honey-syrup/fermented-honeyhttps://www.bonappetit.com/story/hunt-for-fermented-honey?srsltid=AfmBOop1HV9SHQVBqJD0OsOb5fdAsF0vt7Ir_zwyk9pDQKfz9FVn0R4Khttps://www.npr.org/2025/12/12/nx-s1-5637405/honey-flavor-reaches-new-depths-with-spotted-lanternfly-droppings https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s43621-024-00375-3https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC3872021/#sec3 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GgkN0YaNXF4https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M28XjoeiGXA  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propolis https://health.clevelandclinic.org/propolis ig: @shrubbish_podemail: shrubbishpodcast@gmail.comWhile I want to bring levity to the table, this podcast does contain descriptions of substance abuse. If you or someone you know needs help, the SAMHSA (Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration) hotline is available 24/7 at 1-800-662-HELP (4357).

Happy New Year's Eve! In Episode LXXXV Mandi and Suz discuss Clue Escape - Illusionists Club, The Morrison Game Factory, Propolis, Sweetlands, and Dustbiters Pocket Edition. To warm your tables and your hearts in these last days of the year - they serve up a Game Pie full of Comfort Games. Wishing you and your loved ones an excellent wrap to 2025. We appreciate you. Thank you for listening! Please take a moment to rate us on your podcast listening platform. BGG Guild:  https://boardgamegeek.com/guild/4131 Bluesky:  https://bsky.app/profile/saltandsass.bsky.social YouTube:  https://www.youtube.com/c/SaltandSassGames  Twitch:  https://www.twitch.tv/saltandsassgames Email: SaltAndSassGames@gmail.com

It's our last HOT OR NOT episode of the year, where we analyze wellness trends. This year, we unpack:whether peptides are effective in skincare (also, wtf are peptides, what do they do, etc.)is propolis effective?what is pearl powder & why is it claimed to make you pretty?PLUS-- we go over our favorite trends from this year!As always, if you enjoy this episode, please make sure you are subscribed to the show to hear more, leave a 5-star review telling us what you liked about it, and please share with your community who you think would benefit from the episode.If you have any questions you want answered on the podcast, submit them to theblushpod@gmail.com or LEAVE A VOICEMAIL. You can also submit anonymously here.Follow The Show:follow Hiwa on Instagramfollow Hiwa on TikTok

Dr. Daryl Gioffre is a renowned longevity and gut microbiome specialist, known for his Acid-Kicking approach to nutrition that empowers clients to combat inflammation and unlock their peak health and energy. Once a self-proclaimed "sugar addict," Dr. Gioffre has transformed himself into a champion of wellness and healer for others. He and Heather talk everything about your Gut, Microbiome, Inflammation, Mold, Bad vs Good Oils and What NOT to have in your kitchen, and good substitutes for the toxic items. They also talk about the secret benefits of Propolis. Dr. Gioffre is committed to reshaping the landscape of nutrition and holistic well-being. As the visionary behind the acclaimed Alkamind and Kick Acid Enterprises brands, he combines his expertise in nutrition and his qualifications as a board-certified chiropractor. He is also a bestselling author of Get Off Your Acid and Get Off Your Sugar: Burn the Fat, Crush Your Cravings, and Go From Stress Eating to Strength Eating. Dr. Daryl is offering great discounts for HHH listeners and viewers as discussed in the episode: Dr. Daryl's website: ⁠https://www.getoffyouracid.com/pages/about-dr-daryl⁠ Use code HEATHER15 for a 15% discount on checkout for gut tests and Alkamind products. You can also dm Dr. Daryl on his IG account: ⁠https://www.instagram.com/drdarylgioffre/⁠ Website: ⁠www.heatherthomson.com⁠ Social Media:  IG: ⁠https://www.instagram.com/iamheathert/⁠                     You Tube: ⁠https://youtube.com/@iamheathert?si=ZvI9l0bhLfTR-qdo Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

On this episode of Vitality Radio, Jared breaks down a stunning new investigation showing just how many supplements sold on Amazon failed to meet label claims—some containing zero active compounds! You'll learn why these quality issues keep happening, how to protect yourself as a consumer, and what to look for when shopping during Black Friday weekend.Jared also gives a clear, ingredient-by-ingredient look at Get Well Stay Well, the immune formula he created 20 years ago and Vitality's top winter seller. He explains how the herbs, nutrients, and mushrooms support the body's natural defenses and why the flexible “stay well” and “get well” dosing makes it so versatile.Finally, you'll get a preview of the biggest Black Friday / Small Business Saturday sale Vitality has ever offered, including rare discounts on major brands and a special free-product bonus with qualifying purchases.Products:Get Well, Stay WellVisit the podcast website here: VitalityRadio.comYou can follow @vitalitynutritionbountiful and @vitalityradio on Instagram, or Vitality Radio and Vitality Nutrition on Facebook. Join us also in the Vitality Radio Podcast Listener Community on Facebook. Shop the products that Jared mentions at vitalitynutrition.com. Let us know your thoughts about this episode using the hashtag #vitalityradio and please rate and review us on Apple Podcasts. Thank you!Just a reminder that this podcast is for educational purposes only. The FDA has not evaluated the podcast. The information is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease. The advice given is not intended to replace the advice of your medical professional.

Auch am Samstag haben sich Smuker & Mathias im Auto auf dem Presseparkplatz noch etwas Zeit genommen und über den Freitag gesprochen. Dabei geht es um die Drehs an diesem Tag, aber auch nochmal um die Zahlungsmethoden auf der Messe und einen netten Abend bei Spielworxx.    Inhalt:  00:00:00.000 - 00:00:11.923: Intro 00:00:11.923 - 00:00:29.998: Begrüßung 00:00:29.998 - 00:00:48.015: Tag 2: Beginn bei Delicious Games 00:00:48.015 - 00:01:45.739: Einschub: Das Drama um Tornado Splash - Teil 2 00:01:45.739 - 00:04:21.989: Delicious Games: Underwater Cities Erw., Epona & Aquaria 00:04:21.989 - 00:04:37.967: Mathias hat sich Planepita gekauft 00:04:37.967 - 00:04:59.693: Ravensburger Presseevent 00:04:59.693 - 00:06:51.182: Reiner Knizia stellte Ventopia vor 00:06:51.182 - 00:10:25.484: 2026 kommt Carcassonne Labyrinth 00:10:25.484 - 00:11:26.120: Alea lokalisiert 2026 Propolis & Moon Colony Bloodbath 00:11:26.120 - 00:11:38.868: Presages kommt 2026 bei Ravensburger auf deutsch 00:11:38.868 - 00:12:39.069: zukünftige Strategie von Ravensburger 00:12:39.069 - 00:14:42.742: Erstpartie The Druids of Edora 00:14:42.742 - 00:16:05.887: Abacusspiele: Andi komplettiert die weiße Reihe 00:16:05.887 - 00:16:53.822: Erw. zu die Wandelnden Türme, Hier, What's Next 00:16:53.822 - 00:17:22.618: Neun Videos haben wir bei Board Game Circus gedreht  00:17:22.618 - 00:21.07.943: Dindex - Demokratie steht auf dem Spiel (AdveRunde) 00:21:07.943 - 00:22:37.639: Skellig: Fair Enough, Five Families, Click A Tree 00:22:37.639 - 00.23:43.939: dlp Games: Reef Gardens & Landgut 00:23:43.939 - 00:24:26.166: Spielworxx: 15. Geburtstag 00:24:26.166 - 00:27:01.200: Erstpartie: Furchtlos (2-F Spiele) 00:27:01.200 - 00:27:55.585: Andi war müde 00:27:55.585 - 00:28:57.775: Erstpartie: Planepita 00:28:57.775 - 00:35:27.538: Moderne Technik beim Kauf  und das Thema Diebstahl 00:35:27.538 - 00:36:50.397: Ausverkaufte Titel 00:36:50.397 - 00:36:53.883: Verabschiedung 00:36:53.883 - 00:37:07.206: Outro

Programa con vivero extenso en el que os hablamos de doce juegos. Además, ponemos en marcha un divertido concurso en el que podéis ganar una copia de 7 Wonders Dice. Así que lo primero es dejaros el enlace al formulario para responder: https://forms.gle/x5UDeBFaY8uESTTa9 Y ahora el menú: (0:06:28) 7 Wonders Dice (0:18:05) Propolis (0:26:46) Spectacular (0:39:18) Merchants of Andromeda (0:49:49) MARVEL: ¡Escaramuza! en New York (0:59:44) JISOGI Anime Tycoon Studio (1:10:30) Covenant (1:21:38) Cup the Crab (1:27:04) Algae, Inc. (1:37:15) Movie Tricks (1:43:39) Bim Bam Bum (1:49:22) Player 12

Apiterapie nebyla vždy na výsluní. Léčebná metoda, která využívá blahodárných účinků včelích produktů, se začala rozvíjet teprve po revoluci.

Apiterapie nebyla vždy na výsluní. Léčebná metoda, která využívá blahodárných účinků včelích produktů, se začala rozvíjet teprve po revoluci.

Apiterapie nebyla vždy na výsluní. Léčebná metoda, která využívá blahodárných účinků včelích produktů, se začala rozvíjet teprve po revoluci.

Apiterapie nebyla vždy na výsluní. Léčebná metoda, která využívá blahodárných účinků včelích produktů, se začala rozvíjet teprve po revoluci.

Apiterapie nebyla vždy na výsluní. Léčebná metoda, která využívá blahodárných účinků včelích produktů, se začala rozvíjet teprve po revoluci.

Apiterapie nebyla vždy na výsluní. Léčebná metoda, která využívá blahodárných účinků včelích produktů, se začala rozvíjet teprve po revoluci.

Apiterapie nebyla vždy na výsluní. Léčebná metoda, která využívá blahodárných účinků včelích produktů, se začala rozvíjet teprve po revoluci.

Apiterapie nebyla vždy na výsluní. Léčebná metoda, která využívá blahodárných účinků včelích produktů, se začala rozvíjet teprve po revoluci.

Apiterapie nebyla vždy na výsluní. Léčebná metoda, která využívá blahodárných účinků včelích produktů, se začala rozvíjet teprve po revoluci.

Apiterapie nebyla vždy na výsluní. Léčebná metoda, která využívá blahodárných účinků včelích produktů, se začala rozvíjet teprve po revoluci.

Apiterapie nebyla vždy na výsluní. Léčebná metoda, která využívá blahodárných účinků včelích produktů, se začala rozvíjet teprve po revoluci.

Apiterapie nebyla vždy na výsluní. Léčebná metoda, která využívá blahodárných účinků včelích produktů, se začala rozvíjet teprve po revoluci.

Today, let's talk about immune support. With the festive season and colder months upon us, it's the perfect time to focus on practical strategies to help you build a resilient, balanced immune system. I share not only the science-backed basics—like sleep, stress management, and the realities of sugar and alcohol—but also my favorite low-tech tools and innovative supplements for fortifying your body's natural defenses.   Studies Mentioned: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/39544655/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9471313/   Supplements Mentioned: XClear Nasal Spray BeeKeepers Naturals Throat Spray (Bee propolis) Manukora: Manuka Honey (save up to 31%) Puori: Terrific Vitamin C Effervescent Tablets includes Zinc, D3, Yerba Matte, Ginseng - use in the am (use code NAT for 20% off) Troscriptions - TroMMune, TroCalm, TroZZ (use NAT10, and get 10% off your first order) JustThrive: Spore Biotics (use code NAT20 for 20% off) LVLUP Health:Ultimate GI Repair (use code NAT at checkout for 20% off) Healthgevity: ImmunoRESTORE+ (use code LONGEVITY) Bioregulators: Pineal Gland and Thymus (use code LONGEVITY15 for 15% off )   Episode Timestamps: Balancing the immune system vs. boosting ... 00:01:32 Risks of an overactive immune response ... 00:02:55 Lifestyle practices for immune health ... 00:03:38 Sleep's role and practical sleep tips ... 00:04:41 Sugar's impact on immunity ... 00:09:05 Alcohol, mocktails, and immune suppression ... 00:15:26 Managing stress for immune support ... 00:18:19 Summary of key lifestyle strategies ... 00:24:36 Exercise: benefits and moderation ... 00:26:26 Top supplements for immune support ... 00:28:59 Propolis, Manuka honey, vitamins and probiotics ... 00:29:34 Bioregulators and peptide support ... 00:38:42 Sauna and light therapy for winter immunity ... 00:40:01 Take action before the holiday season ... 00:42:28   Our Amazing Sponsors: NootroPept by LVLUP: an advanced cognitive enhancement formula that combines fast-acting neuropeptides, cholinergic support, and mitochondrial-boosting compounds to sharpen mental clarity, memory, and long-term brain performance. Visit https://lvluphealth.com/ and use code NAT at checkout for 20% off.   Nat's Links:  YouTube Channel Join My Membership Community Sign up for My Newsletter  Instagram  Facebook Group

Faith-Based Natural Remedies from God's Creation Keywords: bee pollen benefits, propolis uses, royal jelly health benefits, natural healing, Christian wellness, holistic health

Welcome to the Whole Body Detox Show, hosted by David DeHaas from Living Waters Wellness Center in Boise, Idaho!

This episode ofNature Calls, Conversations from the Hudson Valley is a retrospective look at one of the early radio interviews from our precursor show, “Digging in With Master Gardeners”, aired on WGXC, 90.7 FM. Teresa and Jean interviewed Master Beekeeper and Emeritus Master Gardener Volunteer Linda Aydlett. The original was aired as episode 14. Linda Aydlett has been a beekeeper for over a decade, tending from two to thirty hives in various years. She got started at a workshop by the Catskill Mountain Beekeeping Club, studied via books, internet and Youtube videos, and then became a Master Beekeeper through Cornell University. Linda tells us there is a special relationship between bees and their keeper, quoting author Mark Winston : “The world slows down to focus on bees and their world.” There are 20,000 bee species worldwide. Honeybees are the only insect providing food eaten by people. They are most commonly managed by people. There are twenty sub-species and they are now found in all habitable parts of the world, but are not native to North America. Some key details about honey bees include: they forage over an area of several miles they rarely sting because they will die if they do they use their knees to carry the pollen from flower to flower their role in the ecosystem is enormous. One third of our food supply relies on the presence of pollinators. Honeybees can be directly connected to 75% of fruit crops and 53% of seed production. Direct production from honey bees includes honey. It is nectar brought back to the hive and stored at an 18% moisture content. It takes millions of miles of flight and visits to two million flowers to produce 1/12 of a teaspoon of honey. Propolis is a glue produced from the sap of evergreens for maintenance of the hive. It is also valuable to humans for certain antimicrobial properties, and is also used as a wood varnish. Beeswax is excess nectar, and is the infrastructure of a hive. Humans have multiple uses for the wax, including the popular beeswax candles. Even the venom has a use. Although its removal kills the bee, the venom is used to inject “heat” into arthritic joints. Bees are often considered livestock and overseen by departments of agriculture in many states. Nectar is the reward to the bee for transporting pollen from flower to flower. Linda goes on to describe the fascinating details of a forager bee's life. They find the flowers (and are flower “constant” while a particular flower is in season), and collect the nectar. They return to the hive and transfer it to another bee. They also perform a “waggle dance” to transmit information about direction of the nectar source. Linda describes both the dance and how researchers decoded it in 1927. There are three castes of bees, and Linda describes the duties of each in detail, from the queen to the drone to the worker. There is considerable drama to the choice and emergence of new queens. Learn about a substance called royal jelly which is exuded from the foreheads of nurse bees to feed the queen larvae. The larva of worker bees emerge to assume one or more of the duties of a worker bee. There are, in addition to nurse bees, mortuary bees, ventilator bees, guard bees and others. Eventually each of these can be promoted to a forager bee, usually for the last half of their life (eight weeks on average). There are even some bees known as winter bees. They are born in September or October and can survive the winter. They are of necessity less active and their main duty is to keep the hive warm... around 90 degrees F. They can unhinge their wings and then shiver to produce heat, all the while rotating from the inside to the outside of the bee cluster. New egg laying starts in February and March when activities revert to traditional good weather behavior. Ideally, there was enough honey stored in the hive for the population to survive the winter. Bees are fascinating species. Learn more about them in the upcoming Part 2 of this conversation. Hosts: Teresa Golden and Jean Thomas Guest: Linda Aydlett Photo: Linda Aydlett Production Assistance: Linda Aydlett, Deven Connelly, Teresa Golden, Xandra Powers, Annie Scibienski and Jean Thomas

This episode of the OnBase Podcast delivers a masterclass in building modern go-to-market strategies with ABM at their heart. Host Paul Gibson talks with Robert Norum about why a focused, account-based approach is no longer optional for B2B organizations—it's essential. Robert breaks down the journey from traditional, volume-based marketing to a sophisticated, tiered ABM model that aligns the entire organization.The conversation uncovers the most common challenges businesses face when adopting ABM, from securing leadership buy-in to managing expectations and moving beyond outdated MQL metrics. Robert provides a clear roadmap for success, emphasizing that ABM is not just a marketing tactic but a company-wide directive that unites sales, marketing, and customer success into a single, powerful growth engine.Listen to the full episode to gain the confidence and clarity needed to make ABM your primary GTM strategy.Key TakeawaysABM is the Go-to-Market StrategyFor enterprise organizations, ABM should be the central GTM strategy, not just another marketing program.Focus is EverythingAn account-based approach forces you to concentrate your budget, resources, and people on the accounts that truly matter..Alignment is Non-NegotiableSuccess depends on creating a "SWAT team" across sales, marketing, and customer success, all working toward shared account goals.Pilots Can Be a TrapTreating ABM as a short-term pilot is a recipe for failure; it requires long-term investment and commitment from the top down.Measure What MattersMove beyond MQLs and vanity metrics. Focus on moving the dial within target accounts, expanding your footprint, and creating real pipeline opportunities..Quotes"ABM is the glue that has the potential to really connect organizations and break down silos across different teams"Best Moments (04:37) – The Evolution of ABM: Robert discusses how ABM grew from a one-to-one approach for large enterprises to a scalable, multi-tiered strategy.(09:05) – The Case for Focus: Why concentrating on high-value accounts is the most critical decision a B2B business can make today.(20:12) – The Biggest ABM Challenge: The most common mistake companies make is diving in without defining what ABM means for their organization and getting leadership buy-in.(24:17) – The End of Silos: How an account-based approach fosters an equal partnership between sales and marketing.(30:50) – Winning Over Leadership: Strategies for building a compelling business case for ABM and getting the C-suite excited.(42:40) – The Role of AI: How AI will accelerate ABM, but human intelligence remains essential to brief, interpret, and quality-check the output.Resource RecommendationsBooks:Account-Based Marketing: The Definitive Handbook for B2B Marketers by Bev Burgess.Shout-OutsJon Miller - MarTech entrepreneur,Co-founder at Marketo and EngagioMarta George - Head of EMEA AMB Programmes, Ping Identity.Lianne O'Connor - Global Field & ABM Marketing Director, Fluke Corporation.Andy Johnson - Founder and Director of Client Strategy, HUT 3.Charlotte Graham-Cumming - CEO, Ice Blue Sky Corporation.About the GuestRobert Norum is a B2B Marketer with over 30 years experience. He has worked in magazine publishing, IT distribution, marketing agencies and for the last 20 years as an independent marketing consultant. During this time he has worked on brand, demandgen, channel, ecommerce and sales enablement. For the last 10 years he had specialised in ABM working with a number of leading agencies and directly for wide cross-section of global brands. Since 2017, he has delivered the ABM Essentials training course for B2B Marketing training over 750 marketing professionals in the process. Robert has also been the ABM and Demand Strategy Expert on Propolis since its launch.Connect with Robert.

We're on our way to Gen Con! And here are the games we're most excited about (as well as the ones that are getting the most buzz online). You'll also here where to find us in Indy, where we plan to eat, and how we plan to survive the Best Four Days in Gaming. 00:45 - Releases in the second half of the year. 02:23 - Preparing for Crowds at Gen Con - New Cart Policy 08:15 - Food Trucks 11:15 - Where Will We Be? 19:59 - The Games of Gen Con (BGG Preview: https://boardgamegeek.com/geekpreview/77/gen-con-2025-preview) 20:54 - Vantage 23:27 - Forest Shuffle: Dartmoor 23:54 - Lost Ruins of Arnak: Adventure Chest 24:23 - Gwent: The Legendary Card Game 25:26 - Lightning Train 26:32 - Sea Salt and Paper: Extra Pepper 27:11 - Luthier 28:00 - Fliptoons 28:36 - Ruins 30:10 - Nature 30:53 - Rebel Princess Deluxe: Happily Never After 32:00 - Ace of Spades 33:35 - Galactic Cruise 34:31 - Pirates of Maracaibo: Commanders 34:43 - Soda Jerk 36:25 - Point Galaxy 37:04 - Compile Main 2 38:08 - Star Wars Battle of Hoth 38:41 - Galileo Galilei 39:21 - Propolis 39:48 - Final Girl: Shriek 41:32 - VIVO 42:08 - Spooktacular 43:57 - Horrified: Dungeons & Dragons 45:16 - Evergreen: Cherry Blossoms and Bamboo 45:22 - EXIT Advent Calendar: The Intergalactic Race 46:27 - Suna Valo 47:12 - Kronologic: Cuzco 1450 47:44 - Wine Cellar 49:22 - Shackleton Base 49:58 - Knitting Circle 50:36 - Ra: Traders 51:08 - Iliad 51:26 - Gibberers 51:48 - Cat and the Tower 52:42 - Ham Helsing 53:25 - The Four Doors 54:07 - Raising Chicago 54:24 - High Tide 54:39 - If Then 54:59 - Hyperstar Run 55:20 - Jungo 55:43 - Holiday Hijinks 10, 11, 12, Endangered Rescue 2, Journey to Tir na nOg 56:01 - Above and Below: Haunted 56:20 - The Peak Team 57:17 - Our Advice for Surviving Gen Con Questions? Tales of Horror? tom@dicetower.com

We welcome back Joel Harrison, founder of B2B Marketing and a leading voice in the industry. Four years after his last appearance, Joel shares how B2B marketing has evolved – impacted by COVID, political tensions, AI, and tariffs. From the lasting power of podcasts to the shifting balance between brand and performance marketing, he explores the rise of human-centric strategies in B2B, the real impact of AI on MarTech, and why trust, influence, and advocacy are emerging as the new pillars of marketing success. About B2B Marketing B2B Marketing is the premier provider of insight and intelligence for marketers across all B2B sectors. Its Propolis community intelligence platform helps marketing teams become more effective and successful. The B2B Marketing Awards are the gold standard for excellence in B2B campaigns, while Ignite and the Global ABM Conference are among the most respected events on the B2B marketing calendar. B2B Marketing's offerings include an extensive content portfolio, such as the B2B Agencies Benchmarking Report, the B2B Marketing Podcast, and a suite of industry-focused training courses. About Joel Harrison Joel Harrison has spent over 20 years at the heart of the B2B marketing industry — as an editor, keynote speaker, ambassador, and evangelist — playing a pivotal role in shaping the dynamic sector we know today. Today, Joel focuses on podcasting, public speaking, advisory work, and his upcoming book on thought leadership. He co-founded B2B Marketing magazine in 2004, establishing key industry events and the Propolis community. He remains co-owner and director of B2B Marketing (www.b2bmarketing.net), though he is no longer operationally involved. Time Stamps 00:00:17 - Guest Introduction: Joel Harrison 00:00:44 - What Has Joel Been Doing Over the Last 4 Years? 00:02:54 - The Future of Podcasts 00:06:28 - Creating Valuable Conferences 00:08:40 - How Has the B2B Marketing Landscape Changed? 00:12:30 - Making B2B Marketing Less Boring 00:16:30 - The Impact of AI on the Marketing Stack 00:18:29 - The Rise of Influencer Marketing in B2B 00:24:20 - Best Marketing Advice and Career Tips Quotes “In the 22 years I've been doing this, I've never seen a period that even compares remotely.” Joel Harrison, founder of B2B Marketing “The only thing you can be certain about is uncertainty.” Joel Harrison, founder of B2B Marketing “B2B marketing has definitely got more human. And that's a good thing.” Joel Harrison, founder of B2B Marketing “AI isn't the reason to buy a platform. The platform should solve a specific job — AI is just part of how it does it.” Joel Harrison, founder of B2B Marketing “We can't really envisage what the midterm future looks like right now — we're just so early in the AI journey.” Joel Harrison, founder of B2B Marketing “It's not about being boring or not boring — it's about being human and relevant.” Joel Harrison, founder of B2B Marketing Follow Joel: Joel Harrison on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/joelharrison/ B2B Marketing's website: https://www.b2bmarketing.net/ B2B Marketing on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/b2b-marketing/ Follow Mike: Mike Maynard on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mikemaynard/ Napier website: https://www.napierb2b.com/ Napier LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/napier-partnership-limited/ If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe to our podcast for more discussions about the latest in Marketing B2B Tech and connect with us on social media to stay updated on upcoming episodes. We'd also appreciate it if you could leave us a review on your favourite podcast platform. Want more? Check out Napier's other podcast - The Marketing Automation Moment: https://podcasts.apple.com/ua/podcast/the-marketing-automation-moment-podcast/id1659211547

Welcome to episode 83 of the Longest Turn! In this episode we talk about a few of the games we've been playing lately and then preview the games we're most excited about coming out of Gen Con. 00:00:00 - Intro Games Played Lately: 00:09:01 - High Society 00:14:57 - Chu Han 00:29:41 - Xylotar: Unhinged Gen Con Top 5s: 00:39:50 - Shackleton Base 00:41:23 - Galileo Galilei 00:43:23 - The Last Command 00:46:03 - Fliptoons 00:49:18 - Dirt & Dust 00:52:37 - Soda Jerk 00:55:13 - Red Carpet 01:00:43 - Kinfire Council 01:03:25 - Horrified: Dungeons & Dragons 01:05:07 - Propolis 01:08:25 - Lightning Train 01:13:55 - Merchants of Andromeda 01:17:06 - Habemus Papam 01:21:33 - Class of '89 01:25:51 - Honorable Mentions Join our Discord: https://discord.gg/F4kX3Faxxf  Other links : https://linktr.ee/Longestturn Affiliate codes: GameNerdz Support us on Buy Me a Coffee!

Propolis von Sympathen

Dr. Daryl Gioffre is a renowned longevity and gut microbiome specialist, known for his Acid-Kicking approach to nutrition that empowers clients to combat inflammation and unlock their peak health and energy. Once a self-proclaimed "sugar addict," Dr. Gioffre has transformed himself into a champion of wellness and healer for others. He and Heather talk everything about your Gut, Microbiome, Inflammation, Mold, Bad vs Good Oils and What NOT to have in your kitchen, and good substitutes for the toxic items. They also talk about the secret benefits of Propolis. Dr. Gioffre is committed to reshaping the landscape of nutrition and holistic well-being. As the visionary behind the acclaimed Alkamind and Kick Acid Enterprises brands, he combines his expertise in nutrition and his qualifications as a board-certified chiropractor. He is also a bestselling author of Get Off Your Acid and Get Off Your Sugar: Burn the Fat, Crush Your Cravings, and Go From Stress Eating to Strength Eating. Dr. Daryl is offering great discounts for HHH listeners and viewers as discussed in the episode: Dr. Daryl's website: https://www.getoffyouracid.com/pages/about-dr-daryl Use code HEATHER15 for a 15% discount on checkout for gut tests and Alkamind products. You can also dm Dr. Daryl on his IG account: https://www.instagram.com/drdarylgioffre/ Website: www.heatherthomson.com Social Media:  IG: https://www.instagram.com/iamheathert/                     You Tube: https://youtube.com/@iamheathert?si=ZvI9l0bhLfTR-qdo SPONSOR:  AirDoctor: Head to AirDoctorPro.com and use promo code HEATHER to get UP TO $300 off today! AirDoctor comes with a 30-day money back guarantee, plus a 3-year warranty—an $84 value, free! Get this exclusive, podcast-only offer now at www.AirDoctorPro.com using promo code HEATHER Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In this conversation, host Dr. Riley Kirk and guest Dr. Jaap De Roode discuss the fascinating field of zoo pharmacognosy, exploring how animals medicate themselves using natural substances. He shares insights from his research on monarch butterflies and honeybees, highlighting the role of toxic compounds and fungi in animal health. The discussion also touches on the implications for agriculture, the importance of biodiversity, and the potential for learning from animal behaviors in medicine. Dr. De Roode emphasizes the need for more research in this area and the significance of maintaining natural ecosystems for the health of both animals and humans. Key Takeaways Zoo pharmacognosy is the study of how animals medicate themselves. Monarch butterflies use toxic milkweed compounds to combat parasites. Honeybees may use fungi to treat infections in their colonies. Animal medication can be a learned behavior or instinctual response. Diversity in diet is crucial for animal health and resilience. Propolis serves as both a cement and a medicinal substance for bees. Observational studies provide insights into animal medication behaviors. Animals can change their behavior based on their health needs. Research on animal medication can inform agricultural practices. Understanding animal medication can lead to new discoveries in human medicine. Chapters 00:00 Introduction to Zoo Pharmacognosy 04:08 Research Focus: Monarch Butterflies and Honeybees 10:58 Defining Animal Medication vs. Self-Medication 14:59 Examples of Animal Medication in Nature 18:20 Chimpanzees and Traditional Healing 24:38 Learning and Sharing Medicinal Knowledge in Animals 26:14 The Fascinating World of Animal Self-Medication 28:53 Agricultural Practices and Animal Health 32:38 The Importance of Choice and Diversity in Animal Diets 33:37 Studying Animal Behavior and Medicating Practices 35:56 Recreational Use of Plants by Animals 40:56 Addressing Animal Anxiety and Depression 43:52 Natural Products in Animal Medicating 46:21 Evolution of Medicating Behaviors in Animals 48:21 Cannabis and Animal Self-Medication 51:31 Researching Fungi and Bees 55:20 Insights from 'Doctors by Nature' Thank you to our sponsor for this episode GAVITA: For over 40 years, Gavita has been the trusted name in horticultural lighting, setting the benchmark for performance, reliability, and innovation. https://gavita.com/category/led-grow-lights/ IG: @gavitanorthamerica  Follow Dr. De Roode's research: https://biology.emory.edu/people/bios/faculty/de-roode-jaap.html Follow Dr. De Roode on IG and LinkedIn IG @jaapderoode LI: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jaap-de-roode-04a6a6237/ Read or listen to Doctors by Nature  https://www.amazon.com/Doctors-Nature-Other-Animals-Themselves/dp/069123924X Check out my book Reefer Wellness! ⁠⁠⁠https://www.amazon.com/Reefer-Wellness-Understanding-Cannabis-Medicine/dp/0593847156⁠⁠⁠ ✨ Want Exclusive Content? Join the Bioactive Patreon community for as little as $1/month to ask guests your burning questions, access exclusive content, and connect with Dr. Kirk one-on-one.⁠⁠⁠ www.Patreon.com/Cannabichem⁠⁠⁠

They call it “settled science” that vaccines don't cause autism, so then what causes autism? Wikipedia says there's no known cause, and that it's most likely genetic and possibly environmental. There's no known cure, and it's heavily emphasized that vaccines don't cause autism. So let's take a look at the facts. Dr. Coimbra, a Brazilian neurologist, found that people with autism have chronic inflammation in the brain that's not related to a microbe or a pathogen. It's also important to note that 70% of autistic children have higher rates of autoimmune conditions.Vaccines do not create an adequate immune response without an adjuvant. Aluminum compounds are the most commonly used vaccine adjuvants. Research shows that aluminum is toxic on multiple levels. Its neurotoxicity manifests in learning, concentration, memory, and speech deficits. When injected with a vaccine, it also crosses the blood-brain barrier.From 1980 to 2023, vaccine rates, aluminum exposure, and autism rates have significantly increased. In 2023, 1 in 36 children were diagnosed with autism and had the most aggressive vaccine schedule to date.Children are exposed to 5000 mcg of aluminum by age 6 with the current vaccine schedule. Most studies on vaccines use aluminum adjuvant placebos or other aluminum-containing vaccines in the control group, which is problematic. Other developed countries without such an aggressive vaccine schedule are not seeing the same levels of autism. Similarly, the Amish community, which is largely unvaccinated, has very low rates of autism. Dr. Coimbra utilizes the following protocol to reduce the symptoms of autism.1. 10,000 IU of vitamin D3 2. Propolis 3. Oral silica (monomethylsilanetriol) 100 to 200 mg 3 times per day 4. 4 grams of glycinate for hyperactivityA low-carb diet can also be beneficial for children with autism.Dr. Coimbra explains that the kidneys do not eliminate aluminum when injected with a vaccine. It remains in the organs and within the immune cells, and enters the brain carried by these cells. Dr. Eric Berg DC Bio:Dr. Berg, age 60, is a chiropractor who specializes in Healthy Ketosis & Intermittent Fasting. He is the author of the best-selling book The Healthy Keto Plan, and is the Director of Dr. Berg Nutritionals. He no longer practices, but focuses on health education through social media.

Weronika Wasiak, pszczelarka z Krobii pod Poznaniem, opowiada o tym, jakie cenne produkty – oprócz miodu – zawdzięczamy pszczołom i w jaki sposób możemy z nich korzystać.

How do B2B marketers build genuine trust across the customer journey? Joel Harrison, Founder of B2B Marketing, shares how leading brands are using thought leadership, influencer partnerships, and creative audio to stand out. From award-winning campaigns to vibrant professional communities like Propolis, Joel offers insights that challenge traditional B2B norms. Tune in for a conversation that redefines what it means to connect in the B2B space! Full Episode Details  Joel joins hosts Zontee Hou and Jason Keath on this episode of Social Pros to explore how B2B marketers can embrace creativity, take smart risks, and reclaim the power of brand. He explains why the industry is shifting toward long-term brand building and trust as key drivers of growth. Joel also shares why bravery is now one of the most valuable qualities for B2B marketers, and how storytelling and strategic thinking are making a strong comeback. Joel, Zontee and Jason also dive into the growing role of influencers in B2B, the power and resonance of audio content to build emotional connections, and how the best campaigns often come from clear-minded boldness. Joel also reveals how the most effective marketers today are balancing performance with purpose—and even weighs in on which B2C tactics don't translate to B2B. In This Episode: 1:48 -  The anti-corporate creativity trend 2:26 -  Favorite examples of  creative anti-corporate campaigns  3:51 - Is there a clear line of going too far with this kind of work? 6:25 - How brands can do better at standing out creatively 8:09 -  How  organizations can wade into this influencer space by building trust and to coming off authentically 10:08 -  How to successfully cultivate thought leadership internally  13:27 -  Thought leadership as part of full funnel marketing 15:33 -  Why engagement and conversion respond so well to creative content 16:07 - Tactics to get creative campaigns approved by CFOs, CMOs 18:20 - Upcoming trends in the awards submissions space 19:37 - What B2B can learn from B2C 21:30 - Challenges with trust that B2B organizations face 23:20 - The successful use of creative audio in the B2B space 27:36 - Joel's advice for aspiring social pros Resources: Connect with Joel on LinkedIn Visit the B2B Marketing website   Visit SocialPros.com for more insights from your favorite social media marketers.

When trying to avoid antibiotics, we have to be armed with natural alternatives! On this episode of Vitality Radio, Jared aims to do just that. This episode is a follow-up to #527: The Dangerous Truth About Antibiotics. Jared explains how antibiotic use can lead to a cycle of repeat infections, and how glyphosate in our food supply behaves as an antibiotic as well. He starts with the foundational nutrients we need for a strong immune system and then offers natural remedies for specific health issues around urinary, ear, sinus, respiratory, gut, and skin health. He provides the historical use of these remedies as well as their validation through modern science. Next time you think you might need an antibiotic, we hope you'll feel empowered to try a natural approach first. Stay tuned for the next episode where you'll learn how to rebuild your microbiome if it's been broken down by previous antibiotic use!Products DiscussedAdditional Information:#527: The Dangerous Truth About AntibioticsVisit the podcast website here: VitalityRadio.comYou can follow @vitalitynutritionbountiful and @vitalityradio on Instagram, or Vitality Radio and Vitality Nutrition on Facebook. Join us also in the Vitality Radio Podcast Listener Community on Facebook. Shop the products that Jared mentions at vitalitynutrition.com. Let us know your thoughts about this episode using the hashtag #vitalityradio and please rate and review us on Apple Podcasts. Thank you!Just a reminder that this podcast is for educational purposes only. The FDA has not evaluated the podcast. The information is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease. The advice given is not intended to replace the advice of your medical professional.

Maximizing absorption of supplements is important for optimizing health and our budget! Many companies are innovating on bioavailability and nobody is more cutting edge than Terry Naturally. On this episode of Vitality Radio, Jared invites Dr. Lexi Loch to the show to break down their GammaSorb technology for enhanced nutrient absorption. They discuss how it works and why it's important, and they delve into several of the products they are offering with GammaSorb. These products include Red Ginseng, Lactoferrin, Propolis, PEA, and Ivy Leaf Extract, covering men's and women's health, energy, immune support, pain management, and respiratory support.Terry Naturally Products:Red GinsengLactoferrin & Propolis ExtractPEABronchial Clear - Ivy Leaf ExtractVisit the podcast website here: VitalityRadio.comYou can follow @vitalitynutritionbountiful and @vitalityradio on Instagram, or Vitality Radio and Vitality Nutrition on Facebook. Join us also in the Vitality Radio Podcast Listener Community on Facebook. Shop the products that Jared mentions at vitalitynutrition.com. Let us know your thoughts about this episode using the hashtag #vitalityradio and please rate and review us on Apple Podcasts. Thank you!Just a reminder that this podcast is for educational purposes only. The FDA has not evaluated the podcast. The information is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease. The advice given is not intended to replace the advice of your medical professional.

We're constantly searching for the next wellness breakthrough, the latest supplement, the perfect diet, the ultimate “hack” to feel our best. But what if true healing isn't about adding more? What if the most powerful medicine has been right in front of us all along?Today, I'm joined by Carly Kremer, founder of Beekeeper's Naturals, to explore how ancient healing meets modern science, and why bee products like propolis, royal jelly, and bee pollen might be the missing piece in your wellness routine.In this episode, we break down why most honey isn't what you think and how to find the real thing, the hidden power of bee products for immunity, brain health, and hormones, and how pesticides in our food are affecting both human health and the environment, plus, what we can do about it. We also talk about the biggest mistakes people make in wellness (spoiler: more isn't always better) and the simple shifts that help us stay present in the chaos of motherhood, business, and life.Carly Kremer is the founder and CEO of Beekeeper's Naturals, a company redefining wellness with clean, science-backed remedies from the hive. Today, Beekeeper's Naturals is a leader in pesticide-free beekeeping and sustainable medicine, helping people heal, while protecting the planet.We Also Discuss:(00:00) Deciding Where to Live(03:37) Balance for the Working Mom(12:26) Healing Power of Bee Products(19:45) Bee Products(30:09) The Benefits of Propolis for Health(33:54) The Power of Bee Products(46:14) Benefits of Bee Products for Health(55:10) Royal Jelly and Brain Health Therapies(01:04:53) The Importance of Bee ConservationThank you to our sponsor:Ancient Nutrition: Right now, Ancient Nutrition is offering 25% off your first order when you go to AncientNutrition.com/MONA. Learn more about Mona SharmaWebsite: www.monasharma.comInstagram: @monasharmaSHOP NOW: Cymbiotika.com/MonasharmaLearn More about Carly KremerWebsite: https://www.beekeepersnaturals.com/Instagram: @carly.kremerInstagram: @beekeepers_naturals

A couple things the bees do with propolis I forgot to mention in the episode: embalming hive intruders, fencing in hive beetles! Bee caulk is amazing. Links collected over at Patreon on the post: The first video I watched on the unexpected winter losses among commercial beekeepers in the US by Dr Humberto Boncristiani of Inside the Hive TV. More on the losses from The Bee Supply channel. GA Master Craftsman Beekeeper Cindy Hodges' excellent presentation on Propolis. Dr. Marla Spivak's presentation on her research on propolis. An interview with her on propolis in general. Ian Steppler on selecting for high propolis bees. Do you have any favorite uses for propolis? Wishing you a wonderful week Patrons and Listeners! I sure appreciate all of you! You are warmly invited to become a Friend of Five Apple on Patreon to join the folks who make the podcasts possible and keep it advertising-free. In addition to huge gratitude, you get:   • BONUS podcasts and early access episodes • Detailed show notes with links, tips, comments • Access to Patreon blog posts including tips and videos • Commenting on posts (and DMs) allows me to answer questions • Input on the podcast topics • Shout-outs on the show because I appreciate you!    If you can support the show with $3 a month or more, please sign up today: https://www.patreon.com/fiveapple -- About Beekeeping at Five Apple: Leigh keeps bees in the Blue Ridge Mountains of North Carolina (gardening zone 6b). She cares for around a dozen hives in a rural Appalachian highland climate. Colonies are managed for bee health with active selection for vigor, genetic diversity and disease resistance, but without chemical treatments for over a decade. The apiary is self-sustaining (not needing to buy/catch replacement bees since 2010) and produces honey and nucs most every year.     

In this episode, you'll discover all the benefits propolis can offer for your body and immune system. If you're looking for an alternative to antibiotics, antiviral medications, immune support, digestive support, sleep aids, and even help to combat and detox your system from microplastics, keep listening. In this interview, I sit down with Carly Kremer, the founder of Beekeeper's Naturals, a holistic supplement company that integrates and uses bee-derived products such as propolis, royal jelly, raw honey, and bee pollen synergistically to support the immune system, as well as address issues like PMS, menopause, sleep, energy, leaky gut, brain health, and even fertility. We also debunk the myth of glyphosate in honey, discuss whether organic honey really exists, explore whether the sugar in honey causes blood sugar spikes, and so much more. It's flu season, and if you're someone who always gets sick or struggles with an autoimmune system, this episode might provide the information you need for better health. I can't wait for you to listen! And remember to share this episode with anyone you think could benefit from it—we all can benefit from better health. Get 20% off + FREE bag of Beekeeper's Naturals throat lozenges  Use code: DIGEST beekeepersnaturals.com/DIGEST  Topics Discussed: - Curing tonsillitis - What propolis is - Propolis benefits - How to help with menopause symptoms - How to improve sleep - How to gain energy naturally - Nature's aid to autoimmune issues - Boosting fertility - Boosting the immune system - Royal jelly benefits - Leaky gut aids - What blocks microplastics from harming our brain - Is organic honey a scam? - Glyphosate in honey - The effects of honey on blood sugar As always, if you have any questions for the show please email us at digestthispod@gmail.com.  And if you like this show, please share it, rate it, review it and subscribe to it on your favorite podcast app.  Sponsored By:  Equip Foods Code DIGEST gets you 20% off at Equipfoods.com/digest LMNT  Get your FREE sample pack with any LMNT purchase at drinklmnt.com/DIGEST AquaTru Go to AquaTru.com enter code: DIGEST at checkout for 20% off Check Out Bethany: Bethany's Instagram: @lilsipper YouTube Bethany's Website My Digestive Support Protein Powder Gut Reset Book  Get my Newsletters (Friday Finds)

Wanting to arm yourself with a full arsenal of immune support this season? Nature really has provided us with everything we need! On this episode of Vitality Radio, Jared welcomes back Jamie Cotter from WishGarden Herbs to talk about their Kick-Ass Immune formulas (yes that's really the name of the products!) You'll learn the incredible benefits of the carefully selected herbs in each of their formulas for preventing illness, kicking it when it does take hold, specific symptom support, as well as how to support the recovery process and rebuild resilience. And for the moms out there, they also have formulas for pregnancy and nursing as well as a great line for kids! You'll want to check them out!Products:WishGarden Herbs FormulasAdditional Information:#420: Fast Relief From Seasonal Allergies Using Some Kick-Ass Herbs with Jamie CotterVisit the podcast website here: VitalityRadio.comYou can follow @vitalitynutritionbountiful on Instagram, or Vitality Radio and Vitality Nutrition on Facebook. Join us also in the Vitality Radio Podcast Listener Community on Facebook. Shop the products that Jared mentions at vitalitynutrition.com. Let us know your thoughts about this episode using the hashtag #vitalityradio and please rate and review us on Apple Podcasts. Thank you!Just a reminder that this podcast is for educational purposes only. The FDA has not evaluated the podcast. The information is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease. The advice given is not intended to replace the advice of your medical professional.

Many people are familiar with honey, but not all honey is created equal...     While raw honey has many uses, other bee products like bee pollen, propolis, and royal jelly each play unique roles and have their own special qualities.     So on today's show, I want to go over the differences between these components and explain how I would use each one.     Join me on today's Cabral Concept 3170 as we explore the untold benefits of bee pollen, propolis, and royal jelly. Enjoy the show, and let me know what you thought!   - - - For Everything Mentioned In Today's Show: StephenCabral.com/3170 - - - Get a FREE Copy of Dr. Cabral's Book: The Rain Barrel Effect - - - Join the Community & Get Your Questions Answered: CabralSupportGroup.com - - - Dr. Cabral's Most Popular At-Home Lab Tests: > Complete Minerals & Metals Test (Test for mineral imbalances & heavy metal toxicity) - - - > Complete Candida, Metabolic & Vitamins Test (Test for 75 biomarkers including yeast & bacterial gut overgrowth, as well as vitamin levels) - - - > Complete Stress, Mood & Metabolism Test (Discover your complete thyroid, adrenal, hormone, vitamin D & insulin levels) - - - > Complete Food Sensitivity Test (Find out your hidden food sensitivities) - - - > Complete Omega-3 & Inflammation Test (Discover your levels of inflammation related to your omega-6 to omega-3 levels) - - - Get Your Question Answered On An Upcoming HouseCall: StephenCabral.com/askcabral - - - Would You Take 30 Seconds To Rate & Review The Cabral Concept? The best way to help me spread our mission of true natural health is to pass on the good word, and I read and appreciate every review!  

Ever wondered if there's a natural way to boost your immunity and heal your gut? In this episode, I sit down with Carly from Beekeeper's Naturals to uncover the hidden power of propolis—a natural, immune-boosting substance that has been used since ancient times. We dive into how this bee-derived compound works wonders for your immune system, digestive health, and even helps your body adapt to stress. Carly and I discuss the incredible benefits of propolis, including its over 300 beneficial compounds that support your health in many ways. Whether you're looking for a daily immune booster or a way to reduce stress naturally, this conversation will leave you rethinking how you support your body every day. As the CEO of Beekeeper's Naturals, Carly Kremer has dedicated her career to creating sustainable, pesticide-free bee products that protect bees and transform our health. Her natural remedies and holistic wellness expertise will give you valuable insights into integrating propolis and other bee products into your routine for long-term health benefits. What we discuss: (03:00) - The Impact of Mold and Air Quality on Our Health (09:42) - Sustainable Beekeeping Practices: Challenges and Solutions (16:07) - Global Initiatives for Bee Population Preservation (21:32) - Why Pesticide-Free Beekeeping is Essential (24:40) - How Propolis Supports the Immune System (27:53) - The Science Behind Bee Products: Propolis, Royal Jelly, and More (33:45) - Propolis and Its Benefits for Gut Health (39:55) - Creating a Healthy Home Environment (47:57) - Managing Stress Through Bee Products and Daily Habits (53:40) - Building Trustworthy, Clean Products for Families   Use code DARIN at https://www.beekeepersnaturals.com/Darin for 20% off    Thank you to our sponsors: Fatty15 is on a mission to replenish your C15 levels and restore your long-term health. You can get an additional 15% off their 90-day subscription Starter Kit by going to fatty15.com slash DARIN and using code DARIN at checkout. TruNiagen: Go to www.truniagen.com and use code Darin20 for 20% off Therasage: Go to www.therasage.com and use code DARIN at checkout for 15% off Vivo Barefoot: Get 15% off your first Vivobarefoot order with DARINV15 at www.vivobarefoot.com Find more from Darin: Website: https://darinolien.com/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/Darinolien/ Book: https://darinolien.com/fatal-conveniences-book/ Down to Earth: https://darinolien.com/down-to-earth/ Find more from Carly Kremer: Website: beekeepersnaturals.com Instagram: @beekeepers_naturals Instagram: carly.kremer  

Ep. # 130 Welcome back to the POW podcast from our brand-new studio in Austin, Texas! After a month of adventure in Jackson Hole and exploring the world in our camper van, Brussel Sprout, I'm excited to share my reflections and experiences, including some special horse time with Duke. I'll update you on my fertility journey and the fascinating world of primal astrology. Plus, hear about my latest reads, from A Court of Thorns and Roses to Throne of Glass. Join me for a lively discussion filled with personal updates and discoveries! Leave Me a Message - click here! For Mari's Instagram click here! For Pursuit of Wellness Podcast's Instagram click here! For Mari's Newsletter click here! For POW Brand Promo Codes click here! Sponsored By:  So, if you want to take the next step in improving your health, go to lumen.me/POW to get 15% off your Lumen. That is lumen.me/POW for 15% off your purchase Stop wasting money on things you don't use. Cancel your unwanted subscriptions by going to RocketMoney.com/pow For a limited time, get 15% off + a free Starter Kit and bottle of Propolis throat spray when you shop my link Piquelife.com/pow  Cozy Earth provided an exclusive offer for my listener's today. Up to 40% off site wide when you use the code “PURSUIT" at cozyearth.com  Show Links: ACOTAR Throne Of Glass Topics Discussed 00:01:48 - Bloom in Costco!  00:05:47 - Jackson Hole reflections  00:08:55 - IUI update  00:10:27 - Brussel Sprout the camper van & our 7 mile hike  00:15:22 - Horse time with Duke 00:17:36 - Western trail riding 00:18:34 - Fertility update 00:19:10 - Primal astrology 00:22:58 - ACOTAR & Throne of Glass 

In this episode of Revolution Health Radio, Chris chats with Carly Kremer, founder of Beekeeper's Naturals and a passionate advocate for bee conservation and natural health remedies. Carly shares her inspiring journey from a health-conscious individual to the founder of a company dedicated to harnessing the incredible health benefits of bee products. They delve into the unique properties of propolis, royal jelly, honey, and pollen, exploring how these natural substances can boost immune health, reduce inflammation, and support overall well-being. Their discussion provides valuable insights into the practical uses of these bee products and the science behind their benefits, making it a must-listen for anyone interested in natural health solutions and sustainable practices. The post RHR: The Remarkable Health Benefits of Propolis, Royal Jelly, and Other Bee Products, with Carly Kremer appeared first on Chris Kresser.

Ep. #119 Join me for another episode of Pursuit of Wellness as I uncover the secrets to radiant skin and luscious hair with Kristina and Sara, founders of Vitaclean. It all started when a peculiar sludge problem in their London shower led them to explore the unsettling effects of hard water on beauty routines and the importance of effective filtration solutions. I share my own battles with hard water in Austin and London and how Vitaclean's innovative three-layer filtration system has been a game-changer for my skincare and hair care. We talk about entrepreneurship and the challenges of being a female owned company. Kristina and Sara share their own journeys, from securing their first round of funding to the rewarding experiences of working together. Tune in to today's episode for a breadth of knowledge about water quality, and for a special chance to win a Vitaclean kit! Leave Me a Message - click here! For Mari's Instagram click here! For Pursuit of Wellness Podcast's Instagram click here! For Mari's Newsletter click here! For Sara's Instagram click here! For Kristina's Instagram click here! Check out Vitaclean  click here! & use code POW20 for 20% off! For POW Brand Promo Codes click here! Sponsored By:  Right now, Hungryroot is offering Pursuit of Wellness listeners 40% off your first delivery and free veggies for life. Just go to Hungryroot.com/POW, to get 40% off your first delivery and get your free veggies. For a limited time, you can get $30 off the first box - PLUS free Croissants in every box when you go to Wildgrain.com/POW to start your subscription. That's Wildgrain.com/POW, or you can use promo code POW at checkout. For a limited time, get 15% off + a free Starter Kit and bottle of Propolis throat spray when you shop Piquelife.com/pow Show Links: Réalisation Par Topics Discussed 02:15 - What started Vitaclean 03:02 - Sludge and London plumbing 05:03 - Filtering water after it goes through the pipes 07:15 - Be your own advocate and filtering your water 08:41 - Understanding your water quality 10:14 - Symptoms of poor water quality 11:50 - Vitamin C technology and benefits 15:32 - Vitaclean's filtration system and how to use their products 20:18 - Water quality in different locations 21:13 - How often to change your Vitaclean's filter 22:47 - Aromatherapy and scented options 24:25 - Overall routine and health tips outside the shower 29:48 - Making time for hobbies while being an entrepreneur 33:24 - Entrepreneurial journey and their work dynamic 37:42 - Going full in on their business and challenges of being female owned 42:31 - Creating the best products and where to find Vitaclean 43:28 - Tips for starting your own business 44:20 - Branding is everything 46:36 - Vitaclean giveaway

Ep. # 113 On today's episode of Pursuit of Wellness, my most visited guest Max Lugavere is back for his third episode! Today he is filling us in on his recent documentary Little Empty Boxes inspired by his mother's diagnosis. We really get deep into the subject of dementia and Alzheimers and talk about contributing factors, prevention, and even how diet plays a role. Getting even more personal, Max shares more about his upbringing in New York and how both his and his mother's diet and lifestyles have changed over the course of the last decade. Today's episode is great for anyone who has a loved one with dementia, or for anyone looking to maintain brain health! Leave Me a Message - click here! For Mari's Instagram click here! For Pursuit of Wellness Podcast's Instagram click here! For Mari's Newsletter click here! Watch Little Empty Boxes click here! For Max's Instagram click here! For Max's Podcast click here! For POW Brand Promo Codes click here! Sponsored By:  Stop wasting money on things you don't use. Cancel your unwanted subscriptions by going to RocketMoney.com/POW For a limited time, get 15% off plus a free Starter Kit and bottle of Propolis throat spray when you shop my link Piquelife.com/pow Get 20% off your first order of Maui Nui at www.mauinuivenison.com/pow “Cozy Earth provided an exclusive offer for my listener's today. Up to 40% off site wide when you use the code “PURSUIT” Show Links: Little Empty Boxes Air Doctor: Use Code POW for a discount Astaxanthin  EP. 24 - Dr. Daniel Amen On How To Fix Your Brain & Reverse The Effects Of Caffeine, Sugar, Alcohol and Fame EP. 84 - Dr. Amen Pt. 2: ADHD, Borderline Personality Disorder, Raising Mentally Tough Kids & How To Fight Negative Thinking Topics Discussed 03:13 - Max's documentary “Little Empty Boxes” 05:26 - Dementia and being scared of dying young 07:52- Parkinsons and Dementia  10:38 - Story behind the title 14:54 - Experts and overconsumption of sugar 19:53 - Late stage Azheimers and prevention 22:13 - Diet mindset 25:51 - Things to do now to prevent brain health later 31:41 - Air pollution and environmental toxins 34:59 - Air purifiers in the home 36:33 - Brain injuries and dementia 38:48 - Supplements for brain health 41:02 - Copper River Salmon 43:57 - “It's natural to age” 45:09 - Dementia prevention doctor and brain scans 48:50 - Average age of Dementia 50:30 - Caregiver's Disease 53:41 - Finding purpose in the pain 58:01 - Max's original diet