Podcasts about Alfie Kohn

Within traditional educational and parenting paradigms, behaviorist strategies such as token economies, behavior color charts, and positive reinforcement models are frequently treated as standard mechanisms for human development. However, these compliance-driven metrics often collapse under long-term evaluation, obscuring the critical psychological friction they introduce. Alfie Kohn, a prominent educational theorist and author of Punished by Rewards, joins the program to systematically critique the reliance on traditional behavioral modification systems, including school-wide positive behavioral interventions and supports (PBIS). Emily and Alfie break down the critical neurodivergent intersections of these models, explore the hidden psychological cost of praise, and discuss ways of shifting focus away from surface-level behavior modification and toward the collaborative cultivation of student-led problem-solving. TAKEAWAYS Behaviorist interventions like rewards and punishments function as temporary methods of external control rather than sustainable catalysts for authentic development. Extrinsic rewards actively diminish intrinsic motivation by shifting focus away from the task itself and toward the acquisition of the reward. Conditional rewards and continuous verbal praise implicitly communicates that fundamental human worth is tethered to performance and utility. Applied behavioral modification techniques often target observable surface actions while systematically ignoring the underlying physical, emotional, and sensory needs driving those behaviors. Cultivating a child's authentic self-regulation requires shifting from unilateral adult control to active, collaborative decision-making processes. Check out our continuing education courses for educators through our online platform, the Neurodiversity University! Find them here and here. Alfie Kohn is a prominent author, lecturer, and progressive education advocate whose work challenges traditional frameworks in schooling, parenting, and human behavior. He holds a bachelor's degree from Brown University and a master's degree from the University of Chicago. He has authored 14 books, including seminal titles such as Punished by Rewards, The Schools Our Children Deserve, Unconditional Parenting, and The Myth of the Spoiled Child. Described by Time magazine as perhaps the country's most outspoken critic of education's fixation on grades and test scores, Kohn's insights have significantly shaped the practices of educators, parents, and managers worldwide. His work has been profiled in major publications like the Washington Post and the Los Angeles Times, and he has been featured on hundreds of TV and radio programs, including The Today Show and two appearances on Oprah. Based in the Boston area, Kohn lectures extensively at universities, national education conferences, and parent organizations while maintaining his comprehensive digital archive at alfiekohn.org. BACKGROUND READING Alfie's books, website, Twitter/X The Neurodiversity Podcast is on Facebook, Instagram, BlueSky, and you're invited to join our Facebook Group. For more information go to www.NeurodiversityPodcast.com If you'd like members of your organization, school district, or company to know more about the subjects discussed on our podcast, Emily Kircher-Morris provides keynote addresses, workshops, and training sessions worldwide, in-person or virtually. You can choose from a list of established presentations, or work with Emily to develop a custom talk to fit your unique situation. To learn more, visit our website.

You can listen wherever you get your podcasts or check out the fully edited transcript of our interview at the bottom of this post.In this episode of The Peaceful Parenting Podcast, my guest is Dr. Justin Coulson, an Australian parenting expert and father of 6 who has his PhD in psychology and is the author of 10 books on parenting and the co-host of the Happy Families podcast with his wife, Kylie. We discuss the psychology behind peaceful parenting, including how self-determination theory explains kids' challenging behavior. Dr. Justin also shared his three E's of discipline.Know someone who might appreciate this episode? Share it with them!And if you love the podcast, FREE ways to help us out:1- Rate and review the podcast in your podcast player app2- “Like” this post by tapping the heart icon ♥️3- Share this with a friend. THANK YOU!We talk about:* 1:45 – Introduction to Dr. Justin Coulson and his personal parenting turning pointHow struggles with anger and discipline led him to rethink everything and study psychology.* 08:20 – Learning to regulate ourselves, practicing repair, and growing over time.* 15:50 – Why peaceful parenting starts with the parent's self-awareness and regulation.* 19:50 – Understanding behavior through compassion and curiosity.* 20:50 – The HALTS frameworkHow hunger, anger, loneliness, tiredness, and stress impact children's behavior.* 23:00 – Self-determination theory and parenting* 33:00 – The 3 E's of Effective Discipline* 41:50 – How to use the 3 E's in everyday parenting moments.Real-life examples: screens, sibling conflict & collaboration* 49:00 – Building trust and the “goodwill bank” with kidsWhy collaborative parenting pays off when tough limits are needed.* 53:30 – Advice to his younger parenting self: “soft eyes”A powerful reflection on kindness, connection, and showing up with compassion.* 56:30 – Where to find Dr. Justin CoulsonHis podcast, books, and upcoming work on boys and healthy masculinity.Resources mentioned in this episode:* Dr. Justin's website and podcast* Yoto Screen Free Audio Book Player* The Peaceful Parenting Membership* Evelyn & Bobbie brasConnect with Sarah Rosensweet:* Instagram* Facebook Group* YouTube* Website* Join us on Substack* Newsletter* Book a short consult or coaching session callxx Sarah and CoreyYour peaceful parenting team- click here for a free short consult or a coaching sessionVisit our website for free resources, podcast, coaching, membership and more!>> Please support us!!! Please consider becoming a supporter to help support our free content, including The Peaceful Parenting Podcast, our free parenting support Facebook group, and our weekly parenting emails, “Weekend Reflections” and “Weekend Support” - plus our Flourish With Your Complex Child Summit (coming back in the summer for the 3rd year!) All of this free support for you takes a lot of time and energy from me and my team. If it has been helpful or meaningful for you, your support would help us to continue to provide support for free, for you and for others.In addition to knowing you are supporting our mission to support parents and children, you get the podcast ad free and access to a monthly ‘ask me anything' session.Our sponsors:YOTO: YOTO is a screen free audio book player that lets your kids listen to audiobooks, music, podcasts and more without screens, and without being connected to the internet. No one listening or watching and they can't go where you don't want them to go and they aren't watching screens. BUT they are being entertained or kept company with audio that you can buy from YOTO or create yourself on one of their blank cards. Check them out HEREEvelyn & Bobbie bras: If underwires make you want to rip your bra off by noon, Evelyn & Bobbie is for you. These bras are wire-free, ultra-soft, and seriously supportive—designed to hold you comfortably all day without pinching, poking, or constant adjusting. Check them out HERESarah: Hey, everyone. Welcome back to another episode of the Peaceful Parenting Podcast. Today's guest is Dr. Justin Coulson. He's an Australian parenting expert with a PhD in psychology, the author of 10 books on parenting, the co-host of the Happy Families podcast with his wife, Kylie, the father of six children, and, last but not least, grandfather of one.We discuss the psychology behind peaceful parenting, including how self-determination theory explains kids' challenging behavior. Dr. Justin also shared his three E's of discipline, which I just loved.If you like this episode, please share it with a friend so more parents can learn about peaceful parenting. If you're a fan of the podcast, you can help us out not only by sharing it, but by leaving a review and a five-star rating in your podcast player app. While you're there, don't forget to follow the show so you don't miss an episode.If you'd like to support us even more, you can become a supporter on Substack to help us offset the cost of making the show. We'll put a link in the show notes.Let's meet Dr. Justin. I hope you enjoy this conversation and get as much out of his insights as I did.Sarah: Hello, Dr. Justin, and welcome to the podcast.Dr. Justin: Sarah, I'm so glad to be with you. Thanks for having me on.Sarah: Yeah, and it's morning for you, evening for me—nice—and I'm just glad that we could make this time to talk to each other. I really appreciate it. Thank you. So, could you just tell us a little bit about who you are and what you do?Dr. Justin: Sure. I grew up on the east coast of Australia, about an hour north of Sydney. Geographically, that kind of locates where I was. I was the teenage boy that every parent hopes they will not have. I don't think I was a particularly bad kid, but I certainly wasn't a good kid.My parents were spending a small fortune—I'm a 1975 baby, I turned 50 last year—but this was in the late '80s and early '90s. My parents were spending so much money to send me to a private school. Because we were on the coast—a very quintessentially Australian thing—I was wagging school.Do you say “wagging school” in Canada? Is that a term Canadians use?Sarah: No, but I think we get the context. I think it means not going to school.Dr. Justin: Yeah, I was truant. They thought I was there, but I wasn't.Sarah: We say skipping.Dr. Justin: I was skipping school. Okay, yeah. We call it a school wag.So I would go to school in the morning and get my name marked off in roll call. Then I would sneak out of the school. Across the road from the school, there were bushes—kind of a forest, or whatever you might call it in Canada and America. I would get changed out of my tie, long pants, and black school shoes, throw on some board shorts and a T-shirt.My surfboard was stashed in the bush, and I'd grab it from the hiding place. Then I'd jump on a bus, go to the beach, and surf all day. Afterward, I'd get a bus back to school in the afternoon, change back into my uniform, and race into the school just in time to get my name marked off, looking like I'd been at school all day.This was in the days before schools communicated with parents via email and text, because none of that existed. I was able to get away with it.So I finished high school. I scored in the bottom 15%—Sarah: Goodness.Dr. Justin: Not just my class, but of the entire state of New South Wales. My parents were devastated.I didn't care. I wanted to have a media career. I wanted to be a radio announcer. So I got into radio. If you've ever listened to the radio—and no offense to radio people—you know you don't have to do well at school to be good at radio. You just have to be able to sit on the microphone and say things that make sense.I knew I could do that, so school didn't matter to me. I didn't care about it. That's what I did.But this is where it intersects with parenting.About 10 years into my radio career, my wife and I were having some challenges, particularly around my parenting. We had a threenager and a newborn baby.That three-year-old—I had always held the opinion that my children would do as they were told, and if they didn't, I would make sure they understood that I was the father and that their job was to do as I said.So I was very punitive. I basically made all of the parenting mistakes you can imagine when I would get angry, frustrated, and ill-tempered. It's not that I was a bad father—I spent a lot of high-quality time loving my kids—but I was also really short-fused and highly aggressive.Frankly, I went from threatening to hitting really fast. You call it spanking; we would call it smacking. I was very, very quick to smack or spank my three-year-old, and it wasn't working.After one particularly bad incident where things escalated, I really did lose control. I didn't just spank her once. There were multiple spankings. This was like a 10-minute escalation session where it just got worse and worse and worse.My wife was out at the time. When she came home, I said to Kylie, “I'm a bad father. I'm not doing this well. I'm making a lot of mistakes, and here's what happened while you were out.”Full confession: Kylie has always been this wonderfully supportive wife—very kind, gentle, compassionate, soft-spoken, thoughtful, considerate, empathic—all of those beautiful attributes that I prize and treasure in my good wife.She was none of those things that day.She had fire in her eyes and said, “You are not living up to the father that I hoped you would be, and you're also not living up to the husband I need you to be.”And it took me back, because I was already feeling downcast. I felt like I was failing anyway, and she just—it was like she picked up a great big lump of wood and whacked me over the head with it and said, “No.”Of course, she didn't actually do that, but that's how it felt. It felt physical. Visceral. Like, Ow. This is serious.I left my radio career shortly thereafter.I was working at one of the biggest radio stations in Australia at the time, and I gave up all the backstage passes with global superstars and hanging out with record company executives at the best restaurants, eating their food so they could bribe me to play their music on the radio station. I went back to school.I became a full-time student. I worked part-time at three different jobs while studying full-time. I'd sleep under the desk at university so I could do the study and the work—Sarah: No surfing this time?Dr. Justin: No surfing this time, no. I was just so committed to it.After eight and a half years of full-time study, I graduated with a doctorate. I had to do a couple of other qualifications first, including a psychological science degree. I graduated with a doctorate in psychology and became a university lecturer.Along the way, Sarah, we went from having our two kids at that point to having our third child in my first year of study, our fourth child in my fifth year of study, and our fifth child while I was doing my doctorate. Shortly after I left the university setting, stopped lecturing, and started writing books and giving talks, we had our sixth child.So we're the parents—Sarah: Amazing.Dr. Justin: —of six daughters. Today, they range in age from 12—the youngest—to the oldest, who is in her mid-to-late 20s. She and her husband have a baby now. They've been married for a few years.Sarah: Wow. You're a grandpa.Dr. Justin: A grand—I'm a grandpa. We have a two-and-a-half-year-old grandbaby, four adult children, one in her teens, and a 12-year-old.So that's kind of my very short version of the journey.Along the way, I've written a bunch of books. We've got a TV show in Australia called Parental Guidance. We've had three seasons of that show on primetime TV. I've got a website and all the things that you'd expect—a podcast and so on.Sarah: What did you do when you had that aha moment—that realization that you weren't being the kind of dad you wanted to be, and your wife also agreed that you weren't being the kind of dad she wanted you to be? What did you change?Because you just mentioned that you spent eight and a half years going back to school. I imagine that you made some changes before you had six kids. So what did you do right away, maybe for anyone listening who can relate to those feelings of rage and feeling triggered by your child?Dr. Justin: Sarah, the first thing I'd say is that there was no linear change, and there were no immediate changes, because I didn't know what to do.I was unskilled. I was uneducated. I didn't know anything about psychology, and I clearly didn't know anything about parenting.But I found a mentor. I have a faith background, and there was a writer who wrote eloquently and compassionately. I just felt like he understood me, and he became a mentor to me.I also discovered a guy called Alfie Kohn. You might be familiar with Alfie Kohn.Sarah: Oh, Alfie Kohn was the first thing I ever read about parenting—Dr. Justin: Oh, great.Sarah: —before I even had kids. And he was on the podcast last year, which felt like a full-circle moment between how influential—I told him on the podcast, “You have probably had the biggest influence on me—not only in my parenting, but in my life's direction—of any single person out there.”So, sorry, fan-girl moment. I'm right there with you with Alfie Kohn.Dr. Justin: Yeah. I've gotten to know Alfie over the years as my academic career advanced and I began to understand where he took his research from.I read his book Punished by Rewards—I think it was a 1993—Sarah: That was my first one too.Dr. Justin: Yeah, it's a 1993 publication or something.Sarah, it was just so influential.What happened was, I was doing my university degree and learning things, and honestly, I'd be sitting there thinking, Hang on, the things they're teaching me in these university courses seem to clash with what Alfie Kohn taught me in Punished by Rewards.So I spent a lot of time in the notes section at the back—you know, all the references nobody ever reads?Sarah: Mm-hmm.Dr. Justin: As I went through them, I discovered researchers named Edward Deci and Richard Ryan from the University of Rochester in upstate New York.They had developed a theory known as self-determination theory.A large portion of Alfie Kohn's work is based on self-determination theory.So I really dug deep into that. I still love Alfie, but I moved very much into the academic side because I became a university lecturer and really got into the nitty-gritty of understanding the deepest depths of what self-determination theory is all about. That has become the foundation of the work that I do.And to your question: nothing is linear when you are trying to make improvements.Whether you're trying to change your diet, exercise, get your finances in order, or improve your relationships, you have insights. You have moments where you think, Oh my goodness, this is what I need to do. I need to show up with warmth on my face and soft eyes.And then three hours later, one of your children does something, and you forget what soft eyes look and feel like. You look at them with hard eyes, frustration in your voice, and short, clipped sentences.Then half an hour later, you think, Oh, self-awareness. I missed that.So it's this gradual process: two steps forward, one step back. Three steps forward, one step back. Four steps forward, three steps back. Eight steps forward, no steps back.Over the years, I had this beautiful experience—and maybe you've had a similar experience in your family as you've raised your kids.We were maybe in my third or fourth year of study. My wife has an early childhood background. She knows child development. She knows what kids need.She was a little skeptical about a lot of the things I was starting to talk about and discover as I went through university and got into the depths of what the research meant—comparing and contrasting it with what was mainstream, but actually not always quite right.We had some tension around how we should respond to the children. I was moving away from that authoritarian bent and developing ideas around exploring their world more.One night, I came home from university a little late. It was probably around 9:00 p.m. Our three children were still awake.As I drove into the driveway, all the lights in the house were on. The windows were open. Looking through the living room window, I could tell the house was—to put it politely—a mess.And as I stepped into the house, the kids—it was just awful.I walked over to Kylie and said, “Honey, it looks like it's been a pretty tough day.”I was trying to be compassionate and empathic. I was really trying to do what psychology says is the right thing to do.Kylie looked at me without hesitation and said, “Don't give me any of that psychology crap. I've had the worst day in the world.”Then she stormed out and said, “You fix it,” and walked into the bedroom and closed the door.Again, this is not how my wife usually is, but it had been a really rough day. The kids were feral. The house was a mess.I looked at my priorities. I sat down with the child who was struggling the most and worked with her for two or three minutes. She calmed down, I gave her a little food, and put her to bed.Within about 20 minutes, I had all three kids in bed, and I was so proud of myself.I stepped into the kitchen and started tidying up. I thought, I'll just give Kylie some space.After another 30 or 40 minutes of tidying, I stepped into the living room and said, “Honey, I know you're really upset. It's been a pretty tough day. I wasn't trying to be judgy or anything.”And she said, “It's fine for you. You're not dealing with it all day. You walk in and think you can just snap your fingers and everything's fine.”Then she looked at me and said, “But tonight, you walked in and it feels like you snapped your fingers and everything's fine.”And we had this beautiful conversation where she said, “I've been resenting the things you've been trying to tell me because it felt like you were telling me I was wrong.“But I've been watching, and I'm actually seeing that the things you're doing are working, and our family is feeling better.”It took four or five years to get there, Sarah.It's not like I had this epiphany—I'm a bad father, I need to change—and suddenly I was a good dad.There were many embarrassing, shameful moments after that epiphany where I still made terrible decisions and treated the children badly.Even today, I still lose my temper, say things I shouldn't, and get frustrated, because kids are kids and we're fallible humans.But we call parenting parenting because it's about us. If it were about children, we'd call it childrening.Which sounds silly, right?Dr. Justin: But what I've really discovered is that if I can learn how to regulate myself—high emotions equal low intelligence—then I can regulate my emotions, turn them up or down appropriately for the context, and keep them in harmony with my long-term goals, which are to have loving, kind relationships with my children.If I can do that, I'm going to approach them with a tremendously different focus than I will if I'm looking for a short-term fix.And that is something—Anger is a habit. Yelling is a habit. Time-out is a habit. Reward charts are a habit.We can create other habits. We just have to understand the processes and principles behind those habits and then practice them, like we practice a song on the piano, until we finally get it right.Sarah: I love that.So you and Kylie really had a journey—a back-and-forth dance of your own processes and your own development.I do love how you say it's really about us. Whenever I'm working with clients, after a couple of sessions they'll say, “You know what? This isn't even about my kid. This is just about me.”Dr. Justin: Yes. Yes.Sarah: Nobody wants to believe that at first, because it's so much easier to think, I've just got to change them and what they're doing.But it's really all about what we're bringing to the moment and what we're bringing to the relationship.Dr. Justin: I get in trouble sometimes for being overly provocative and saying things that are insensitive, so a quick warning:I want to say what I'm about to say with all the compassion in the world and all the tenderness and care in the world, because I work with people every single day who are dealing with exactly the struggles you're talking about.I want to step into the world of neurodiversity—ADHD, autism, trauma—those kinds of areas.What we're talking about applies there as well. It's just harder.Sarah: Mm-hmm.Dr. Justin: But ultimately, if I'm raising an ADHD child or a child who's been through a traumatic experience, once again, parenting is not about them. It's about how I show up for them.So I can say, “Well, my child's like that,” or, “I'm like this because of the diagnosis,” or because of the label, or because of the trauma, or because of the neural networks doing what they're doing.I can say all of those things, and many people do. It's understandable, and I have all the compassion in the world for them when they do.But the key thing I want to highlight is that in spite of all of those challenges your child might be facing—or even that you might be facing—today begins now.It begins with what you put on your face and what you think in your mind.If we can soften our features and go to our children with kindness and compassion while still holding appropriate limits—or working with them to develop appropriate limits—then what we can say is:“Yes, that bad thing happened,” or, “Yes, we are dealing with this difficulty, so what are we going to do about it?”We can fall into the I can't do anything way of thinking, which is really ineffective and doesn't help at all.Or we can step into I have this incredible thing psychologists call agency, or self-efficacy, where I can make a decision now, and if we work on it, we can actually improve things.It might be a longer, harder road. There may be more obstacles to climb over than a typical family without those challenging circumstances.It may be harder.But we can always improve.I never want to be the person who puts limits on what kids can do or what parents can do.If we change our language, change our focus, and recognize that this is a long game—Sarah: Mm-hmm.Dr. Justin: —which requires sustained effort every single day, it's extraordinary the progress we can make and the changes we can create in our home and our family.Sarah: For sure. Yeah.And unfortunately, it's a long game, right? Because I think today we always want quick answers and solutions.Really, it's just showing up every day as best you can and repairing when you don't show up the way you wish you had.And I think another really important part of it—which you were talking around a little bit—is trying to understand our child's experience and see things from their perspective.I was just talking to a client about that today:What's the most emotionally generous explanation you can come up with for their behavior?Because we don't actually know why anyone does anything, since we're not in their brain.But we often jump to, They're being rude on purpose, or They're trying to annoy me.Really, if we can think, Well, I don't know why they're doing this, but there's probably a reason, because kids want to be good. They want to be connected with us.And just reminding ourselves that they're not giving us a hard time—they're having a hard time.That actually makes it easier, I think, to show up as your best, most compassionate self—with, as you say, soft eyes and warm features.Dr. Justin: Yeah.No child wakes up in the morning thinking, Today's the day. I'm just going to ruin everything.This is the perfect opportunity. My parents are tired and frazzled. There's a cost-of-living crisis. There are all these challenges happening, and if ever there was a moment—it's now. I'm going to do it today.They don't wake up thinking that.Like you said—and you said it so perfectly—kids really do want to please us.I know some parents listening to me say that right now are thinking, No, no. My child does not want to please me.And so the question becomes: Why? Why are they struggling?And maybe this is a nice way for me to bring in some of the principles I learned as I went deeper into self-determination theory.There are a couple of times when children are almost guaranteed to be challenging, and this has nothing to do with self-determination theory. This is just general psychology and wellbeing.I always think of Germany. A police officer tells you to stop, but they don't say the word stop because they're German.In German, the word for stop is halt—H-A-L-T.So we add an S to the end, and the acronym becomes:Hungry, Angry, Lonely, Tired, or Stressed.Sarah: Mm-hmm.Dr. Justin: Those are the five times when you can all but guarantee your children are not going to be doing well.If they are hungry, get some food into them—ideally a little protein, because it's satiating and helps them feel full quickly.If they're angry, then we've got to remember: high emotions equal low intelligence.You can't think straight in a high emotional state.So our job is to get curious, not furious, because if we fight fire with fire, we end up with a scorched-earth policy and everything gets burned.Dr. Justin: Lonely.I could be sitting right next to you, Sarah, and feel disconnected and lonely—Sarah: Mm-hmm.Dr. Justin: —even if we were very close.Our children are sometimes literally sitting at our kitchen bench, and they feel alone. They feel a little lost. Because of the way we're responding to them—with hard commands, correction, and direction rather than connection—they feel lonely.Tired.I don't even need to explain that.Even as adults, I don't know any couple who, at the end of witching hour—or whatever you might call it in North America, that 5:00 to 7:00 p.m. stretch when the kids—Sarah: Yeah.Dr. Justin: —are just oof…It's the end of that period, and you're exhausted, the kids are exhausted, and you look at your husband or wife and say, “You know what? We are so tired. We're shattered. But boy, are we nailing it tonight.”Nobody ever says that when they're tired—Sarah: Yeah.Dr. Justin: —because you're not nailing it. You're just hanging in there.And it's the same with kids.Then the S is for stressed, and that includes sickness, because sickness is a stress on the body as well.Those five indicators are going to let you know when your child is likely to be challenging, and I think they're really good to watch out for.But if we go a little deeper and talk about self-determination theory, it says that each of us has these needs.You have them, Sarah, and I have them, and our children have them—even your mother-in-law has them.We have three basic psychological needs.When we're in environments where those needs are supported, oh my goodness, we thrive. These are environments we're drawn to and attracted to. We approach them with a smile on our face and can't wait to be there.But if the environment is what researchers call need-thwarting or need-frustrating—meaning it frustrates and thwarts those needs—then we avoid it.Sarah: Mm-hmm.Dr. Justin: Or, if we're in those environments, we act in ways that are challenging.So the basic psychological needs are:Number one: a sense of relationship, or relatedness. That's the technical term they use.Relatedness is a sense of mutual belonging.Sarah: So would it be similar to mattering? Like you feel like you matter to somebody?Dr. Justin: Yeah. There's been a lot of talk recently about mattering.But it's reciprocal mattering. It's not just one-way.It's I matter to you, but you matter to me.Sarah: Yeah.Dr. Justin: Let me use Mother's Day as an example.We just had Mother's Day in Australia at the start of May.If I've got a great relationship with my mother-in-law, and it's Mother's Day, I'm probably going to spend the morning with my wife and family while my children celebrate their mum. Then maybe at lunchtime, we head over to the in-laws to celebrate my wife's mum.If I feel like that relationship need is supported at my mother-in-law's—meaning there's mutual belonging, I matter to her, she matters to me, we enjoy one another's company, and it feels good—I'm going to say:“Great. Let's get in the car. Let's go. What do we need to do?”But if I'm going to a need-frustrating environment—if there's tension, antagonism, snide remarks, eye rolls, silence, defensiveness, or wounds from bad things that happened in the past—that environment doesn't feel good to me.So I'm going to say to Kylie:“Honey, why don't you take the kids to your mum's? Have a great lunch. We've made a big mess this morning, and I think the best thing I can do for your Mother's Day”—and I'll frame it nicely, of course—“is stay home, tidy the house, clean up the kitchen, get everything ready, and put dinner on for tonight so you can have your perfect Mother's Day dinner. I'll see you in four hours.”And then I send her out the door.Why?Because my in-laws' home has become a need-thwarting or need-frustrating environment. I just don't want to be there.And if I am there, I'm going to be sullen and sulky. I might try my best for half an hour and then say, “Oh, this is too hard,” and retreat—Sarah: Or text. The adult version of misbehavior.Dr. Justin: Yes, exactly. Exactly.But if I'm a child in a need-thwarting or need-frustrating environment, I'm going to get into fights with the kids I don't like.Or I'm going to say, “I don't want to go to school because everyone picks on me because I don't regulate my behavior properly because I've got ADHD.”Right?So school becomes a place I don't want to go.Or maybe you have a faith background and your child doesn't have any friends at church.Or you've signed them up for soccer, but they don't know anyone on the team.And they're saying, “Yeah, but I don't want to go.”It all comes down to relationship.Relationship is the basic psychological need that's being thwarted.Now, the second basic psychological need is competence.Competence, I would describe as feeling like I can do the thing I'm being asked to do.Sarah: Or that I want to do.Dr. Justin: Yeah. We'll get to want to in just a second, because want-to is the third basic psychological need—autonomy.So stay with me on competence for a second.Competence is capability. Capacity.It's not even necessarily about being able to do something—it's about feeling like you're making progress toward the goal.Let's say I'm joining acrobatics and trying to learn how to do a handstand.That's really tricky. It's a tough skill.If I show up every week to acrobatics, even if I've got great friends there—so my relationship need is supported—and I love my coach, but every time I try to do a handstand my shoulders buckle, my elbows aren't straight, my form is wrong, I fall over, or I can't stay up…After four or five or six weeks, I'm going to say:“I don't like this anymore. I'm out.”I had a daughter who wanted to come cycling with me.I'm a really keen cyclist. I ride on the road. I'm a middle-aged man in Lycra.But I also ride on the velodrome.You've seen those velodrome bikes at the Olympics—the indoor track where they go around and around and around.You might have noticed that after they finish the race, they keep pedaling and do another 10 laps.The reason is twofold.Number one: there are no brakes on those bikes.And second: they use what's called a fixed gear, meaning that when the wheels are spinning, the pedals are spinning.If you stop pedaling, you're going to get thrown over the handlebars because the wheels are still moving, which means the pedals are still moving, even if you try to stop them.So you just have to keep riding until the bike slows down.My daughter wanted to come to Friday night velodrome racing with me.We didn't have the money, but we spent all this cash on a bike, the Lycra, the helmet, the special shoes—it cost a lot, and I was a poor university student.But my daughter wanted to cycle with me, and I wasn't going to miss that opportunity. So we sacrificed and made it happen.Unfortunately, she was competing against girls who had been riding for four, five, or six years.For the first few weeks, she gave it a good go, but she was losing by several laps every race.After about a month, she said:“Dad, I don't want to do this anymore.”And my response was:“But I've spent all this money.”But what was really going on was that as much as she liked the girls and the atmosphere, she didn't feel competent—Sarah: Mm-hmm.Dr. Justin: —and she didn't see progress.She didn't feel like she was ever going to master the activity, so her motivation and wellbeing plummeted.Cycling became a need-thwarting environment for her.Whether it's piano, violin, rock climbing, cycling, swimming, math, PE class—it doesn't matter.If your kids don't feel like they can do the thing, they're going to push back.They're going to say:“This is too hard. I don't like it.”They won't use these exact words, but what they're really saying is:“This is a need-frustrating environment for me. I don't like it. I don't want to be there.”And then they start to act out.My mom got to the stage with me as a 13-year-old boy where she was physically holding me by the arm and dragging me into my piano lessons.Dr. Justin: Which brings me to my third and final basic psychological need, which is autonomy.A lot of people hear the word autonomy and think it means freedom—that kids can do whatever they want. They think it means independence.That's not what autonomy means, certainly not in the strict scientific form we're talking about within this theory.Rather, autonomy comes down to identifying the value of an activity and therefore endorsing the actions required to do the activity.See, if I, as a 12-year-old, looked at piano and thought:This is going to be a lifelong skill that will bring me joy, that I'll be able to share with others, that I can use in service of my family and community. If I can play piano or keyboard, I could be in a band. I could do all of these things.If I identified the value in the activity, then I would endorse the work required to learn it.So autonomy is not about freedom and independence. It's about choice based on values.That's a lot when you're thinking about three-, four-, and five-year-olds, but not necessarily—Sarah: No, I love that.We talk about that all the time in my communities—how important it is for kids to have autonomy.And I think you can have autonomy even when kids can't be independent, right?Because you can't have a four-year-old who's independent, but you can have a four-year-old who can make decisions that matter.Dr. Justin: Yes, yes.And that decision goes well beyond, Do you want to wear the blue suit or the green one?Sarah: I'll quote our friend Alfie Kohn. He says, “Kids should have the ability to make decisions that make adults gulp a little bit.”Dr. Justin: I love it. Yes. Beautiful.Let me give an adult version of this, and then I'll swing it back into childhood, because sometimes parents hear this and think, This isn't quite computing for me.In Canada, you drive on the right-hand side of the road.Sarah: Mm-hmm.Dr. Justin: And it's true that if you choose to drive on the left-hand side of the road, the authorities will probably get involved. You may cause harm to somebody. You could even end up in prison.But even in the middle of the night, when nobody's on the road, I can't imagine there are too many Canadians who get in the car and think:Tonight's the night. Nobody's watching. I'm gonna drive on the left.You are being absolutely controlled by the government and by the law. You're driving on the right-hand side of the road.But because you identify the value in driving on the right-hand side of the road, nobody has to compel you to do it.You just do it because you endorse the idea that driving on the right is safer. It's what you need to do.So our job with our children is twofold.First, when it comes to these basic psychological needs, we want to help them be in environments—or create environments—where those needs are supported.We want to send them to a school where they have good relationships, where somebody says, “Hey, come sit with us,” where teachers know them by name and smile when they see them and are excited to support them.A school where they're able to experience progress—which might mean less emphasis on grades and more emphasis on developing capability.And a school where they feel like they have some say in where they're going and what they're doing.Rather than being forced to attend a school like I was when I was a teenager, they get to say:“No, I want to go to that school because that's where my friends are.”Or:“That's where the teachers help me feel good.”Or:“That's where my interests lie.”That's the basic psychological-needs concept.Now let's bring that into discipline, which is what started this whole conversation.Based on this theory—and I guess it ties back to a lot of what Alfie Kohn has said as well—I developed a little model that's really easy to memorize and even easier to enact.I call it the Three E's of Effective Discipline.The Three E's of Effective Discipline are need-supportive.If you look at the root of the word discipline, it comes from the idea that we teach, guide, and instruct—that we show the way to follow.Sarah: Mm-hmm.Dr. Justin: But if you look at the modern definition of discipline, the modern definition is punish.Punish means exact retribution. It means hurt. It means make someone pay a price.Sarah: Make people feel bad on purpose.Dr. Justin: Yeah. That's exactly right.And I'm interested in disciplining our kids, not punishing our kids.Punishment is need-thwarting, right?If you make someone feel bad on purpose, there goes the relationship. They feel incompetent, and you've taken away their autonomy.So standard discipline strategies—whether it's time-out, spanking, yelling, withdrawing privileges, taking away the iPad, bribery—all of those standard discipline practices trample over basic psychological needs.We've got to come up with something better.So I developed the Three E's of Effective Discipline, which are basically this:On a beautiful bed of empathy, we explore, we explain, and we empower.Sarah: Ooh, I love that.Dr. Justin: Explore basically means I sit down with my child at an appropriate time.Because we always try to fix things right here, right now.Sometimes we need to, but often intervention simply to make sure people and property aren't hurt—that's all you need.Then you can say to your child:“We'll have a chat about this later when nobody's got a head full of steam.”Kick it down the road.You don't have to fix things right here, right now. Most of the time, it's just not necessary.So once everyone is calm, you explore.You say:“Hey, I've noticed there's been a lot of tension in our home lately between you and your brother.”Or:“Have you noticed that for the last few weeks we've had so much conflict about screens?”And your child says, “Yeah.”And you say:“I just want to listen because parenting's about parents, right? I must be getting something wrong here. Can you help me understand what I'm missing? Where am I going wrong? What's the real problem from your perspective?”Now, there are three things that make this better.Number one: never do it with an audience.Kids always want to save face. They don't feel competent when we start these conversations in front of other people.Number two: have some treats.Because once you're feeding them, they're like:“Oh, I'm not in trouble. We're just chatting, and there are cookies,” or a thick shake, or something like that.And number three: take notes.When you're trying to solve problems—and that's really what discipline is—The Three E's of Effective Discipline are about problem-solving.Discipline—meaning helping, teaching, guiding, instructing—is really about solving problems.So if I want to solve problems effectively in my home—if I want to discipline my children well—I'm trying to say:“Where are you coming from? What am I missing?”When you take notes on what your kids are saying, it's amazing how much information they give you because they realize:You're really listening to me.Sarah: Yeah. You're taking me seriously. You're writing down what I say.Dr. Justin: They're blown away by it.So they'll tell you a bunch of stuff.Now, every now and then they won't. Sometimes they'll shrug and say, “I don't know.”And you can say:“Well, if you don't know, that's fine. But if you did know…”This drives kids crazy, but it's my favorite sentence.“If you did know, what do you think the answer would be?”Sarah: Mm-hmm.Dr. Justin: And they roll their eyes.“Well, I don't know. That's what I said. If I knew, I'd tell you, but I don't know.”And I say:“I know you don't know, and I understand that if you did know, you would tell me. But if you did know, what would you tell me?”Sarah: I love that.Dr. Justin: They get this feeling—it's like this horrible psychological trick where:I don't know the answer, but if I had to come up with one, I guess I'd say this…And now the conversation starts.You get momentum.Sarah: You Jedi mind-trick them.Dr. Justin: Yeah. It's beautiful.And you write it down.At no point are you allowed to interrupt.At no point are you allowed to tell them they're wrong.At no point are you allowed to respond with your adult wisdom.You just listen.Sarah: Okay, and we're still on explore?Still on the first E?Dr. Justin: We're still on the first E.You make all these notes, and once it sounds like they've told you everything, you say:“All right. So what you're telling me is…”And then you read the notes back.This is the oldest psychological strategy in the book—I'm not saying anything new here.If they say, “Yes, that's what I'm saying,” you say:“All right. Great. I've got it.”If they say no, then you say:“Oh, what have I missed? How did I get this wrong? Clarify it for me.”And they give you more information.But there's a really valuable question at the end.When they say, “Yes, that's what I'm saying,” you ask:“Fantastic. Is there anything else?”Sarah: Mm-hmm.Dr. Justin: The power of asking that extra question is profound.It forces them to go deeper.Sometimes they'll say, “No, that's it.”But often, their first answers are shallow answers to get you off their back.They're thinking:I'm telling you what I think you want to hear.But when you say:“Got it. You're happy with this answer? Fantastic. Is there anything else going on?”That's when they look at you and think:Oh—you're actually serious about this. You really care.Sarah: And you're really listening to me.Dr. Justin: Yeah.And it's profound what children will give you after you ask, “Is there anything else?”Once you've got everything written down, confirmed, and you're clear, the next step is explain.Dr. Justin: Now, there are a couple of things around explain.Explain is basically the part where you tell them what they need to know. This is the parent bit.But all too often, we step into lecturing, and the kids fall asleep. They're like, “Oh, here we go again. I thought this was going to be different, but it's no different after all.”So there are a couple of things we need to get right here.Number one: if you're going to explain anything to your children, my recommendation is that you keep it to less than 20 seconds.Now, there's no science around this. This is just my experience in talking with parents and kids in my own family. I find that if you talk for more than 10 to 20 seconds, kids really do tune out, and it goes back to the way things have always been.The second thing is that I always ask permission.“Now that I've listened to you, Sarah, there are just one or two things I'd love to run by you about what's going on. Do you mind if I do that?”I want to make this absolutely clear: as a parent, you do not need your child's permission to tell them things. I really, absolutely, honestly believe that. As the parent, you have the right to tell them stuff they need to know.But this isn't about rights. This is about effectiveness.If I launch into, “Well, Sarah, now that I've listened to that, I get it, but I need to tell you these two things,” I'm already bringing defensiveness back into the relationship.Sarah: Mm-hmm.Dr. Justin: Barriers are coming up.Whereas if I say, “Sarah, this is so helpful. As I've listened to you, two things have come to mind. Do you mind if I share both of those with you?” Your instant response, even as I say it—I'm watching your face—Sarah: I'm nodding.Dr. Justin: And you're going—Sarah: Yeah.Dr. Justin: Yeah. I actually want to know.You're opening up your heart and mind to me, and we're just role-playing this.Sarah: Yeah, yeah. Mm-hmm.Dr. Justin: And that's what our kids do. They're like, “Oh, okay.” Because we've given them the courtesy of listening—Sarah: Well, and you're not trying to use your power over them.Dr. Justin: Exactly.This is a non-coercive, really supportive conversation.And I still haven't had this happen. A lot of parents will say, “Well, what happens if they say no?”And I'm like, “I've raised six kids, and they've never actually looked at me and said, ‘Now that I think about it, no, I don't need to know anything that you…'”They've just never done it.But even if they did—Sarah: Well, if they do, it's probably that they're—what did you say? When emotions are high, intelligence is low. Maybe it wasn't the right time to have the conversation.If they're saying no, then they're probably still angry and holding onto whatever was going on for them.Dr. Justin: Exactly.But if they're that angry, they're probably not going to have explored nicely with you anyway.Sarah: Yes, exactly. So pick—Dr. Justin: A different time.You're probably not even going to—Sarah: Get to that point. Yeah.Dr. Justin: So it's very much: keep it really short, ask permission, and then share.Sarah: Okay. So give me examples.You said, “We've been fighting about screens,” was one example. You also gave the example of, “You've been fighting a lot with your brother.”So in the explain—10 to 20 seconds—choose one of those scenarios. After hearing your child, what would you say in that 10 to 20 seconds?Dr. Justin: I did this just the other day with my 16-year-old daughter, Lily, who is on social media more than she should be. There's been some tension and conflict.I listened. She shared some ideas, and I said, “There are just a couple of things I want to run by you. Is that okay?”She said, “Sure, Dad.”I said, “Great. There are certain times when we're trying to connect or have family time, and there are certain contexts where you're on your device and we just can't reach you.”She looked at me and said, “Yeah, I know.”I said, “Okay. The second thing I want to highlight is that we've noticed you're sleeping in because, even though you're not supposed to, you've been taking your phone into your bedroom at night and staying up late scrolling. Unless I'm reading it wrong, I'm pretty sure that's what's been happening.”And she said, “No, I have been, Dad. You're right.”So it's just two really succinct sentences where I'm stating what I'm seeing. I'm sharing my experience.Sarah: Mm-hmm.Dr. Justin: If it were the sibling fighting, I'd say, “Yeah, your brother is really annoying. I get what's going on. Sometimes I wish he didn't live in our house as well.”I might have a joke with them about the challenge associated with that.And then I might say, “So when this happens, can I just share how it feels for me? It breaks my heart. I love both of you so very much, and my dream is for our family to enjoy being in one another's company and to look forward to conversations and jokes and doing the things we do. When this stuff is going on, it feels like that's a pipe dream.“And secondly, psychologically—you know I've got this PhD in psychology—I know that there's damage being done to the way your brother feels about himself. That's what I'm worried about.”So I've had both of those little conversations on two different topics, sharing two different things, and both were about 10 seconds each.Sarah: Mm-hmm.Dr. Justin: Again, it's conversational. It's not lecture-style.Sarah: And it's from the heart.I can feel it, even though this is just an example you're giving. I can feel that it's from your heart—that you're really being open and sharing with your child what your true concerns are.You're not trying to power over or control. You're really sharing a heartfelt sentiment.Dr. Justin: Yeah. Thank you. That's the goal.You won't always do that, but that's the goal.The reason there's a problem is because your values are not being upheld in the home, and you're trying to communicate that in a way that shows you honor them and that they've got a brain.Now, we've used two really grown-up versions—or teenage versions, I guess. But you can have the same conversations with three- and four-year-olds. It's just shorter. It's simpler.Usually, with those conversations, in a pretty tight timeframe—60 to 90 seconds—you've done the whole process.There is a higher-order—Sarah: Okay, so what's the third part?Dr. Justin: Just before I get to that one, if you really want to do the advanced version of explain, what I'll often do after I've explored with my child is say:“Okay, so this is the bit where I'd normally explain what's going on from my point of view. I wonder if you can tell me what you think I'm going to say here.”Sarah: Ah.Dr. Justin: And so I get them to explain the explain to me.The reason that's so effective is that whenever my mouth is the one that's moving, my brain is the one that's working.If I can get their mouth moving, their brain is doing the heavy lifting.Sarah: Love that.Dr. Justin: That's really, really effective.And then the last one—Sarah: Is empower.And you're also helping them see things and develop empathy, right? To see things from somebody else's perspective.Dr. Justin: Yes. Powerful.The last one is empower.That's literally as simple as saying, “Okay, so I get where you're coming from. We've had that conversation very thoroughly. You know what my challenge is here. What do you think we should do?”“Where do we go from here? How do we solve this in a way that we can both feel good about?”It's true that every now and then, your child will shrug their shoulders and say, “I don't know.”Or they'll shrug and say, “Well, we should just do what I want to do.”And as a parent, that's where you step in and say my favorite line:“Don't you just wish? Don't you just wish we could?”Sarah: Mm-hmm.Dr. Justin: Because—well, let me ask you, Sarah. When I say, “Don't you just wish,” or, “Wouldn't it be good if we could?”—same thing—what have I actually said?Sarah: Total empathy. Heaps of empathy.Dr. Justin: Total empathy.But I've also said something else really clearly.Sarah: That that's not going to work.Dr. Justin: Correct. The answer is no.But it's a no with so much love, kindness, empathy, and gentleness in it—Sarah: Mm-hmm.Dr. Justin: —that your child goes, “Oh, yeah. I know.”And then you say, “So let's see if we can come up with a solution that will work.”What else might work for you when it comes to your brother?What else might work for you when it comes to the party on Friday night that I'm not willing to let you go to?What else could work when it comes to our screen challenges? Because this is an ongoing issue for us, isn't it?Every now and then, you won't get an answer right away. You'll say, “Well, let's talk about it again tonight,” or, “Let's talk about it again tomorrow once you've had some time to think about it.”But I'm big on deadlines.“We need to have this worked out by the end of the weekend, okay? I don't want to go through another week of this. We've got to find a solution. If we haven't had another chat by tomorrow night, we're going to sit down and work it out then.”And I also don't have a problem at this point—Laura Walker is a researcher at BYU in Utah, and she did a study published in the Journal of Adolescence where she found that parents who use these kinds of strategies—she's not talking about the Three E's of Effective Discipline, because that's the thing I developed, but it's based on the same sort of theory that she researches—Parents who use these kinds of strategies, even when they do have to step in and say, “All right, well, we haven't come up with a solution, so it's going to be my way,” kids are much more likely to be responsive and compliant—Sarah: Mm-hmm.Dr. Justin: —because we've been through a process with them that is not autocratic. It's not authoritarian.They've felt like they had a voice. Their perspective has been seen and heard. They've had some input.And even though they don't get what they want all the time—because we're the parents, and sometimes the fact that we've climbed 47 rungs on the ladder of life and they've only climbed 13 is all we need.Sarah: That's what I call in my work the goodwill bank.When your kids experience you as collaborative, non-coercive, and not power-tripping—when they know, over the period of their childhood, that they can trust you to take their preferences into account and be respectful of them—then when you do have to say no about something, even if they don't like it, there's this goodwill bank behind you and this level of trust.When you mentioned, “You can't go to the party on Friday,” I never had that issue with my kids because everything was so collaborative.We'd have similar conversations. I didn't have—I'm not very good at thinking of things like the Three E's—but similar kinds of processes where they'd say why they wanted to go, I'd say what my concerns were, and then they'd invariably say, “Oh, yeah, you're probably right.”It was never, “You can't go.”It was, “These are my concerns. This is what I've been thinking about.”Because they experienced that whole process over years of parenting, you don't get the pushback because they don't feel like you're power-tripping them.Dr. Justin: Yeah.Sarah, I had an experience with one of my adult children who was still living at home. I think she was maybe 19 or 20 when this happened.She wanted to go and do something, and I said to her, “You're an adult. You do get to choose for yourself whether you will do this or not, but I've got some really big concerns about you doing it.“I actually think you're putting yourself into a dangerous situation. There's some history, some volatility, and some challenges if you go and involve yourself in this particular activity. Tell me why this is so important to you.”So she walked me through it, and I said, “Okay, I get it. How do my concerns stack up against your desire to be there?”And she said, “Dad, I get what you're saying, but I want to go.”And I said, “Okay, so…”You used that beautiful term, the goodwill bank. I can't remember exactly what my words were, but I'm going to use your term right now, because I essentially said:“I'm going to use the goodwill I've built up with you over the last however many years and step in really firmly and say you're making a mistake.“As your dad, even though you're an adult, I want to forbid you to go. That's how strongly I feel about this. To the degree that I can, I forbid it.“Ultimately, you will choose because you are an adult, but I don't want you there.”Sarah: I'm going on the record.Dr. Justin: Yeah, yeah.“I need you to trust that this is a bad idea. We can come up with any number of other activities you could do instead, with different people in a different location, but this is a bad idea, and you have none of my support should you go.“If you go and something goes wrong, you call me and I'll come rescue you. But it is a bad idea, and I forbid it.”And I couldn't believe I was saying those words. I've never said them in my life, and now I was saying them to an adult.But she looked at me and said, “Okay.”Sarah: Mm-hmm.Dr. Justin: She didn't fight me. She didn't say, “I can do what—”Sarah: No, because you built up the history with her of how she experienced you.Dr. Justin: Yeah. She was like, “Wow, this is serious. He's never said that before. If he feels that strongly, maybe he's right. Maybe I need to find an alternative.”So anyway, that's the Three E's of Effective Discipline.I feel like I've talked too much, Sarah. I wanted to be much more conversational, but I get carried away when we—Sarah: No, no. I love it.I feel like it's very complementary to the things that I teach, and you've given me some new things to teach parents as well.I love having sort of snappy—the Three E's of Discipline. I think that's great. I love it. I'll share it.Dr. Justin: Yeah, please. Absolutely.It's helped so many millions of parents.Sarah: Yeah.Well, I love that we've connected across the world—from the other side of the world to each other—and I look forward to hopefully talking to you again in March of 2027 when your book Boys comes out.I figured we were going to talk about that, but we had such a lovely conversation about peaceful parenting, discipline, and—oh my God, it's gone right out of my head—Dr. Justin: Self-determination theory.Sarah: Self-determination theory.I think it was a really great conversation, and I really appreciate you sharing all of your experience and wisdom.Dr. Justin: I loved the conversation.Like I said, it was too one-sided. I wish we'd been able to go backward and forward a bit more, but let's do it again.Let's chat again next year when the book comes out, and we'll talk about boys and how to help them.There's so much talk about toxic masculinity.Sarah: Mm-hmm.Dr. Justin: Wouldn't it be great if we could give them a view of healthy masculinity—a model of that to follow?That's what my book is all about: how we can guide boys into a healthy form of masculinity.Sarah: Well, for folks in Australia, your book is coming out in June 2026. For folks in North America, it's not coming out until spring 2027.So I will definitely be ringing you up and having you come back on to talk about the book when you've got your North American release. I know we're going to have a great conversation then.Before I let you go, though, I have a question that I ask all my podcast guests:If you had a time machine and you could go back and tell your younger parent self something, what advice would you give yourself?Dr. Justin: Jean-Jacques Rousseau said there is—I can't remember the quote exactly—but: What wisdom is there that is greater than kindness?I've paraphrased it. It's not perfect, but it's something along those lines.Interestingly, Rousseau had, I think, five children—maybe six—and he put them all into orphanages somewhere in the first 18 months of their lives so he could spend more time writing and focusing on how to be a good person, which I just find criminal. I can't believe it.So take it for what it's worth, but “What wisdom is there that's greater than kindness?” is what Rousseau said.I've mentioned this idea of soft eyes a couple of times. If I could go back, I would teach myself about kindness. I'd teach myself about many of the things we've talked about today.But I just want to quickly share the story of soft eyes.As an academic, I want everything I say to be evidence-based. There is no evidence that I'm aware of where people have done any kind of randomized controlled trial where parents are asked to interact with their children with soft eyes, neutral eyes, hard eyes, or anything like that.Soft eyes is this idea—I was giving a presentation at a public library one time, and an elderly lady stepped into the back of the room, sat down, and listened to the last 25 or 30 minutes of my presentation. She must have liked what she could hear from the corridor outside, and she stepped in to listen.After everybody had left, she walked over to me and said, “I really enjoyed what you shared. I'd love to tell you something my grandmother said to me.”So we're going back into the early 1900s.Her grandmother said, “Whenever you're talking to your children about matters of discipline, make sure you have soft eyes.”And I thought, I really like that.Because if you try to have a conversation with somebody and your eyes are soft, you just can't say mean things. You can't say harsh things. You can't have harsh thoughts.If you soften your eyes, your face softens and your heart softens. You have this beautiful compassion and kindness, this ability to see the best in them rather than the worst in them, to assume positive intent.There's something gorgeous about soft eyes.So I would go back and quote Rousseau better than I just quoted him to you, and I would tell my younger self that soft eyes will make a tremendous impact on all of my relationships.Sarah: Ah.There's an American—I don't know if you've heard of him in Australia—but he's a pretty well-known marriage counselor, Terry Real.Dr. Justin: Oh, yeah. I quote him in my book.Sarah: Yeah, yeah. He does a lot of work about—well, he says something like, “There's nothing that harshness can accomplish that kindness can't accomplish better.”Dr. Justin: That's so beautiful.Sarah: Mm-hmm.Dr. Justin: Thank you. That's inspiring. I'm so glad you shared that.Sarah: Yeah. I love it.It's hard to remember, but I think it is true. And I wish that—and I know the world needs a dose of that right now.Dr. Justin: Yeah. Yeah.Sarah: One hundred percent.Well, thank you so much.Where's the best place for folks to go and find out more about you and what you do?Dr. Justin: Probably my podcast, the Happy Families Podcast. My wife and I drop a 15-minute nugget of parenting wisdom every day, five days a week.Sarah: Oh, wow!Dr. Justin: Yeah. It's a lot of content, but it's bite-sized chunks, and it's entertaining. We're fun. We get to do it together.And the Happy Families Podcast. I've got a website called happyfamilies.com.au, but basically, if you like what we've talked about—Sarah: We'll link to all of that in the show notes. We'll link to your website and your podcast, and I'm sure it's easy to find you.Dr. Justin: That sounds great. Thanks, Sarah.Sarah: Thank you so much.Dr. Justin: What a great, great conversation. Lovely to be with you.Reimagine Peaceful Parenting with Sarah Rosensweet Substack is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit sarahrosensweet.substack.com/subscribe

A viral trend called “FAFO parenting” is exploding on TikTok and even making headlines in the Wall Street Journal. Advocates say it’s the antidote to “soft” parenting — let kids fuss around and find out the hard way. But is this tough-love comeback really preparing kids for life or setting them up for harm? In this episode, Justin and Kylie unpack the hype, the dangers, and the research-backed alternative every parent needs to hear. In this episode: What FAFO (“Fuss Around and Find Out”) parenting actually looks like — and why it’s trending The three big claims FAFO parents make Why FAFO backfires The vital difference between natural consequences and manufactured hardships How “need-supportive parenting” builds resilience without breaking trust QUOTE OF THE EPISODE “Discipline isn’t about hurting kids to prove a point. It’s about problem-solving so they can discover the lesson.” RESOURCES MENTIONED Wall Street Journal article on FAFO parenting (subscription required) Alfie Kohn, Punished by Rewards More parenting resources: happyfamilies.com.au ACTION STEPS FOR PARENTS Resist the temptation to outsource learning to punishment. When mistakes happen, guide your child through problem-solving instead of powerplays. Protect the parent–child relationship — resilience grows best where trust is strong. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

If you feel stuck in tantrums, power struggles, or constant “do this / don't do that”… this shifts how you see it completelyMost parenting advice focuses on fixing behavior, timeouts, consequences, sticker charts, but what if that's the very thing keeping you stuck? In this conversation, we unpack why common tools like rewards and punishments often lead to more resistance, more meltdowns, and less real cooperation over time. If your toddler refuses to listen, pushes boundaries, or seems “unmotivated” unless there's a reward, this will help you understand what's actually driving their behavior, and what to do instead when you're overwhelmed in the moment.What You'll Learn: Why rewards and punishments often create short-term compliance but long-term struggles  What's really happening underneath “bad behavior” (and how to respond to it)  How to shift from control-based parenting to connection-based cooperation  A simple mindset shift that reduces power struggles immediately  What to focus on instead of “getting your child to listen” This approach is grounded in developmental psychology and decades of research on motivation, behavior, and parent-child relationships. It's not about being permissive or “letting things go,” it's about understanding your child deeply enough that you don't have to rely on control in the first place. When you shift the goal from obedience to long-term growth, your responses start to change in a way that actually works.If you're tired of second-guessing yourself in hard moments, and you want a clearer, calmer way to handle tantrums, defiance, and everyday struggles, this is exactly what we focus on here. Subscribe so parenting starts to feel more manageable, and you feel more confident in what you're doing, even on the hard days.Here's a link to Alfie Kohn's book: Unconditional Parenting: Moving From Rewards and Punishments to Love and ReasonSend us Fan MailSupport the showLinks to help you and me:To support the Podcast, Subscribe on SubstackGet Jon's Top Five Emotional Regulation GamesGet Jon's Book Punishment-Free Parenting Preorder Jon's Children's Book Set My Feelings FreeFollow Whole Parent on Instagram, Tiktok, Facebook, Youtube

You can listen wherever you get your podcasts or check out the fully edited transcript of our interview at the bottom of this post.In this episode of The Peaceful Parenting Podcast, I speak with Katie Kimball of Raising Healthy Families. We discussed getting kids in the kitchen and getting them to love cooking, raising teenagers and why they are wonderful, managing screens at different ages, and what kind of skills kids need to become independent, well-rounded and self-sufficient once they leave our homes.Make sure to check out Katie's course Teens Cook Real Food! **If you'd like an ad-free version of the podcast, consider becoming a supporter on Substack! > > If you already ARE a supporter, the ad-free version is waiting for you in the Substack app or you can enter the private feed URL in the podcast player of your choice.Know someone who might appreciate this episode? Share it with them!We talk about:* [00:00] Introduction to the episode and guest Katie Kimball; overview of topics (cooking, teens, life skills, screens)* [00:01] Katie's background: former teacher, mom of four, and how her work evolved into teaching kids and teens to cook* [00:04] Why the teen years are actually great; what teens need developmentally (agency and autonomy)* [00:08] Beneficial risk and safe failure; how building competence early reduces anxiety later* [00:10] Getting kids into cooking: start small, build confidence, and let them cook food they enjoy* [00:16] Cooking as a life skill: budgeting, independence, and preparing for adulthood* [00:21] Screen time: focusing on quality (consumptive vs. creative vs. social) instead of just limits* [00:25] Practical screen strategies used in Katie's family* [00:28] Motivating teens to cook: future-casting and real-life relevance (first apartment, food costs)* [00:33] Teens Cook Real Food course: what it teaches and why Katie created it* [00:37] Fun foods teens love making (pizza, tacos)* [00:39] Where to find Katie and closing reflectionsResources mentioned in this episode:* Teens Cook Real Food Course https://raisinghealthyfamilies.com/PeacefulParenting* Evelyn & Bobbie bras: https://reimaginepeacefulparenting.com/bra* Yoto Screen Free Audio Book Player https://reimaginepeacefulparenting.com/yoto* The Peaceful Parenting Membership https://reimaginepeacefulparenting.com/membership* How to Stop Fighting About Video Games with Scott Novis: Episode 201 https://reimaginepeacefulparenting.com/how-to-stop-fighting-about-video-games-with-scott-novis-episode-201/Connect with Sarah Rosensweet:* Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/sarahrosensweet/* Facebook Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/peacefulparentingfreegroup* YouTube: Peaceful Parenting with Sarah Rosensweet @peacefulparentingwithsarah4194* Website: https://reimaginepeacefulparenting.com* Join us on Substack: https://substack.com/@sarahrosensweet* Newsletter: https://reimaginepeacefulparenting.com/newsletter* Book a short consult or coaching session call: https://book-with-sarah-rosensweet.as.me/schedule.phpxx Sarah and CoreyYour peaceful parenting team-click here for a free short consult or a coaching sessionVisit our website for free resources, podcast, coaching, membership and more!>> Please support us!!! Please consider becoming a supporter to help support our free content, including The Peaceful Parenting Podcast, our free parenting support Facebook group, and our weekly parenting emails, “Weekend Reflections” and “Weekend Support” - plus our Flourish With Your Complex Child Summit (coming back in the summer for the 3rd year!) All of this free support for you takes a lot of time and energy from me and my team. If it has been helpful or meaningful for you, your support would help us to continue to provide support for free, for you and for others.In addition to knowing you are supporting our mission to support parents and children, you get the podcast ad free and access to a monthly ‘ask me anything' session.Our sponsors:YOTO: YOTO is a screen free audio book player that lets your kids listen to audiobooks, music, podcasts and more without screens, and without being connected to the internet. No one listening or watching and they can't go where you don't want them to go and they aren't watching screens. BUT they are being entertained or kept company with audio that you can buy from YOTO or create yourself on one of their blank cards. Check them out HEREEvelyn & Bobbie bras: If underwires make you want to rip your bra off by noon, Evelyn & Bobbie is for you. These bras are wire-free, ultra-soft, and seriously supportive—designed to hold you comfortably all day without pinching, poking, or constant adjusting. Check them out HEREPodcast Transcript:Sarah: Hi everyone. Welcome back to another episode of the Peaceful Parenting Podcast. Today's guest is Katie Kimball of Raising Healthy Families. She has been helping parents feed their kids and, more recently—in the past few years—teach their kids to cook. We had a great conversation about getting kids in the kitchen and getting them to love cooking, and also about raising teenagers and what kind of skills kids need to become independent. We also talked about screens, because any parent of a teenager who also supports other parents—I want to hear about what they do with getting kids to be less screen-focused and screen-dependent.Katie had some great tips in all of these areas, including cooking, feeding our families, and screens. In some ways, we're just talking about how do we raise kids who are independent, well-rounded, and have the skills they need to live independently—and those things all come into play.I hope that you really enjoy this conversation with Katie as much as I did. Let's meet Katie.Hi, Katie. Welcome to the podcast.Katie: Thank you so much, Sarah. I'm honored to talk to your audience.Sarah: I'm so excited to talk to you about teenagers, raising teenagers, life skills, screens—there are so many things to dive into. You seem like a very multifaceted person with all these different interests. Tell us about who you are and what you do.Katie: I do have a little bit of a squirrel brain, so I'm constantly doing something new in business. That means I can talk about a lot of things. I've been at the parenting game for 20 years and in the online business world for 17. I'm a teacher by trade and a teacher by heart, but I only taught in the classroom for about two years before I had my kids. I thought, “I can't do both really, really well,” so I chose the family, left the classroom, and came home.But my brain was always in teacher mode. As I was navigating the path and the journey of, “How do I feed these tiny humans?”—where every bite counts so much—I was really walking that real-food journey and spending a lot of time at the cutting board. My brain was always going, “How can I help other moms make this path easier?” I made so many mistakes. I burned so much food. There's so much tension around how you balance your budget with your time, with the nutrition, and with all the conflicting information that's flying at us.So I felt like I wanted to stand in the middle of that chaos and tell moms, “Listen, there's some stuff you can do that does it all—things that are healthy, save time, and save money.” That's kind of where I started teaching online.Then I shifted to kids' cooking. For the last 10 years, I've been sort of the kids' cooking cheerleader of the world, trying to get all kids in the kitchen and building confidence. It's really been a journey since then. My kids currently are 20, 17, 14, and 11, so I'm in the thick of it.Sarah: We have a very similar origin story: former teacher, then mom, and a brain that doesn't want to stop working. I went with parent coaching, and you went with helping parents with food and cooking, so that's exciting.I can tell from what I've learned about you offline that you love teenagers—and I love teenagers too. We have people in the audience who have teenagers and also people who have littler kids. I think the people with littler kids are like, “I don't want my kids to grow up. I've heard such bad things about teenagers.” What do you want people to know about teenagers? What are some things that you've learned as the mom of younger kids and then teens?Katie: It's such a devastating myth, Sarah, that teens are going to be the awful part of your parenting career—the time you're not supposed to look forward to, the time you have to slog through, and it's going to be so difficult.It's all difficult, right? Don't let anyone tell you parenting's easy—they're lying. But it's so worth it, and it's so great. I love parenting teens. I love conversing with them at such a much higher level than talking to my 11-year-old, and I love watching what they can do. You see those glimpses of what they'll be like when they're a dad, or when they're running around an office, or managing people. It's incredible to be so close. It's like the graduation of parenting. It's exciting.That's what I would want to tell parents of kids younger than teens: look forward to it.I do think there are some things you can do to prepare for adolescence and to make it smoother for everyone. I like to talk about what teens need. We want to parent from a place of what teens developmentally need, and they really need agency and autonomy at that stage. They're developmentally wired to be pushing away—to be starting to make the break with their adults, with that generation that we are in. Sometimes that's really painful as the grown-up. It almost feels like they're trying to hurt us, but what they're really doing is trying to push us away so it doesn't hurt them so badly when they know they need to leave.As parents, it helps to sit with the knowledge that this is not personal. They do not hate me. They're attempting to figure out how to sever this relationship. So what can we do to allow them to do that so they don't have to use a knife? If we can allow them to walk far enough away from us and still be a safe haven they can come home to, the relationship doesn't have to be severed. It just gets more distant and longer apart.When they want independence and autonomy, we need to make sure we give it to them. My tip for parents of younger kids is that, especially around ages 8, 10, 11—depending on maturity level—where can we start providing some agency? My team will say, “Katie, don't say agency. It sounds like you're talking about the FBI or some government letters.” But it's the best word, because agency isn't just choices—it's choices plus control, plus competence to be able to make change in your own life, in your own environment.We can't have agency unless we give our kids skills to actually be able to do something. The choice between “Do you want the red cup or the blue cup?” is for toddlers. That's not going to be enough once they're in the stage where their mind is growing and they can critically think. We want to give our kids skills, responsibilities, choices, and some ownership over their lives. That starts in upper elementary school, and it gets bigger and bigger.Sarah: I would argue it starts even earlier. Toddlers can make the red cup or blue cup choice, and as they keep going, you can give them more and more agency.One of my favorite parenting people, Alfie Kohn, says that kids should have the power to make decisions that make us gulp a little bit.Katie: Oh, I love that.Sarah: I think that's true. We come up against our own anxiety too: What if they make the wrong decision? But it's incremental, so the decisions become bigger and bigger as they get older. That's how they practice being able to make good decisions—through experience.Katie: We know statistically that anxiety right now is spiking massively that first year out of high school—where young adults are heading into the world, either to university or for a first job. One theory—one I would get behind—is that everything of adulthood, all the responsibilities, are crashing on their shoulders at once, and they haven't experienced that level of responsibility. Sometimes they haven't had opportunities to fail safely, and they don't know what to do.Sometimes we think we're pushing problems out of their way and that it's helpful, but we're really creating bigger problems down the road. So with that long-term perspective, I love that “gulp.” We've got to let them try and fail and hold back.Sarah: Do you know Lenore Skenazy, who started the Free Range Kids movement? She has a TED Talk that came out recently where she talks about how she attributes the rise in anxiety to the fact that kids never have any unwatched time by adults. They never have room and space to figure out their own way to make things work. Of course, I don't think anyone's saying we should inappropriately not supervise our kids, but they need more freedom. If they don't have freedom to figure things out on their own, that's where the anxiety comes in.Katie: For sure. When Lenore and I have interacted, she likes to call it “beneficial risk.” Climbing the tree is the classic example, but because I love to get kids and teens in the kitchen, we got to talk about the beneficial risk of using sharp knives and playing with fire—literally returning to our ancestral roots.The way I see it, and the way I've seen it played out in my own home: I taught my now 20-year-old to use a chef's knife at age 10. He built competency. He took risks. He discovered how he wanted to navigate in the kitchen. So when he was 15 and getting his driver's permit, I felt pretty peaceful. I thought, “He's so mature. I've seen him make good decisions. He's practiced taking beneficial risks.”I felt confident handing him the driver's license. When it came time for him to get a cell phone—first a kid-safe phone and then a fully unlocked smartphone—I felt like we had been building up to it because of our work in the kitchen. I think he did better than his peers with taking appropriate risks driving a car and having a smartphone in his pocket, because he'd had practice.Sarah: And that was in the kitchen for your family.Katie: Yes.Sarah: Cooking is one of my special interests. I love to cook. My kids love baking. They were never that interested in cooking, although they all can cook and they do cook for themselves. My 21-year-old who has his own apartment has started sending me pictures of the food that he makes. He made some baked chicken thighs with mushrooms the other day, and a green salad. He sent me a picture and I said to my daughter, “Do you want to see a picture of Asa's chicken?” And she said, “Asa got a chicken?” She was picturing it running around. We all laughed so hard because I wouldn't put it past him, honestly.When my kids were younger, they weren't that interested. Maybe I could have gotten them more interested in the cooking part, but I always felt like that was my thing. What tips do you have—for any ages—about how to get kids interested and involved? You said your son was using a chef's knife at age 10. What are some ways to involve kids and get them interested in that skill?Katie: Knives are a great start because they're scary and they're fun—especially for guys. You get to use something dangerous. My second son, John, asked to learn to use a chef's knife, so he learned to use a sharp paring knife at age four and asked to level up to a chef's knife at age seven.For parents of kids who are still in that intrinsic motivation phase—“I want to help”—the good news is you don't have to try. You just have to say yes. You just have to figure out what can my brain handle letting this little person do in the kitchen. If it's “I'm going to teach them to measure a teaspoon of salt,” then do it. Don't let cooking feel like this big to-do list item. It's just one teaspoon of salt.Can I teach them to crack an egg? Can I teach them to flip a pancake? Think of it as one little skill at a time. That's what cooking is: building blocks. If it's something like measuring, you don't have to have them in your elbow room. You can send them to the table; they can have a little spill bowl. Then you can build their motivation by complimenting the meal: “This meal tastes perfect. I think it's the oregano—who measured the oregano?” That's how we treat little ones.The medium-sized ones are a little tougher, and teens are tougher yet. For the medium-sized ones, the best way to get them involved is to create a chance for authentic praise that comes from outside the family—meaning it's not you or your co-parent; it's some other adult. If you're going to a party or a potluck, or you're having people over, figure out how to get that kid involved in one recipe. Then you say to the other adults, “Guess who made the guacamole?” That was our thing—our kids always made the guac when they were little. And other adults say, “What? Paul made the guacamole? That's amazing. This is awesome.” The 10-year-old sees that and blooms with pride. It makes them more excited to come back in the kitchen, feel more of that, and build more competency.Sarah: I love that. That's an invitation, and then it makes them want to do more because it feels good. We talk about that in peaceful parenting too: a nice invitation and then it becomes a prosocial behavior you want to do more of.I started cooking because I wanted to make food that I liked. I'm old enough that I took Home Ec in middle school, and it was my favorite class. I think about my Home Ec teacher, Mrs. Flanagan, my whole adult life because I learned more from her that I still use than from any other teacher. I remember figuring out how to make deep-fried egg rolls in grade seven because I loved egg rolls. You couldn't just buy frozen egg rolls then. So I think food that kids like can be a good way in. Is that something you find too?Katie: One hundred percent. If you're cooking things they don't like, you get the pushback: “Mom, I don't like…” So it's like, “Okay, I would love to eat your meal. What do you want to eat?” And it's not, “Tell me what you want and I'll cook it.” If you meal plan, you get to make all the choices.My kids have been interviewed, and people often ask, “What's your favorite thing about knowing how to cook?” My kids have gotten pretty good at saying, “We get to cook what we like.” It's super motivating.Sarah: When I was growing up, my sister and I each had to make dinner one night a week starting when I was in grade five and she was in grade three. We could make anything we wanted, including boxed Kraft Dinner. I can't remember what else we made at that young age, but it was definitely, “You are cooking dinner, and you get to make whatever you want.”Katie: Why didn't you do that with your own kids, out of curiosity?Sarah: It just seemed like it would take too much organization. I think we tried it a couple times. Organization is not my strong suit. Often dinner at our house—there were lots of nights where people had cereal or eggs or different things for dinner. I love to cook, but I like to cook when the urge hits me and I have a recipe I want to try. I'm not seven nights a week making a lovely dinner.Also, dinner was often quite late at my house because things always take longer than I think. I'd start at six, thinking it would take an hour, and it would be 8:30 by the time dinner was ready. I remember one night my middle son was pouring himself cereal at 6:30. I said, “Why are you having cereal? Dinner's almost ready.” He said, “Mom, it's only 6:30.” He expected it later—that's the time normal people eat dinner.My kids have a lot of freedom, but nobody was particularly interested in cooking. And, to be honest, it felt a bit too early as a responsibility when my sister and I had to do it. Even though I'm glad now that I had those early experiences, it was wanting to make egg rolls that made me into a cook more than being assigned dinner in grade five.Katie: That push and pull of how we were parented and how we apply it now is so hard.Sarah: Yes.Katie: I'm thinking of an encouraging story from one of the families who's done our brand-new Teens Cook Real Food. The mom said it was kind of wild: here they were cooking all this real food and it felt intensive. Over the years she'd slid more into buying processed foods, and through the class, watching her teens go through it, she realized, “Oh my gosh, it's actually not as hard as I remember. I have to coach myself.” They shifted into cooking with more real ingredients, and it wasn't that hard—especially doing it together.Sarah: It's not that hard. And you hear in the news that people are eating a lot of fast food and processed food. I'm not anti-fast food or processed food, but you don't want that to be the only thing you're eating. It's actually really easy to cook some chicken and rice and broccoli, but you have to know how. That's why it's so sad Home Ec has gone by the wayside. And honestly, a whole chicken, some rice, and broccoli is going to be way cheaper than McDonald's for a family of four. Cooking like that is cheaper, not very hard, and healthier than eating a lot of fast food or processed food.Katie: Conversations in the kitchen and learning to cook—it's kind of the gateway life skill, because you end up with conversations about finances and budgeting and communication and thinking of others. So many life skills open up because you're cooking.You just brought up food budget—that could be a great half-hour conversation with a 16- or 17-year-old: “You won't have infinite money in a couple years when you move out. You'll have to think about where you spend that money.” It's powerful for kids to start thinking about what it will be like in their first apartment and how they'll spend their time and money.Sarah: My oldest son is a musician, and he's really rubbing his pennies together. He told me he makes a lot of soups and stews. He'll make one and live off it for a couple days. He doesn't follow a recipe—he makes it up. That's great, because you can have a pretty budget-friendly grocery shop.I also don't want to diss anyone who's trying to keep it all together and, for them, stopping by McDonald's is the only viable option at this moment. No judgment if you're listening and can't imagine having the capacity to cook chicken and rice and broccoli. Maybe someday, or maybe one day a week on the weekend, if you have more time and energy.Katie: The way I explain it to teens is that learning to cook and having the skills gives you freedom and choices. If you don't have the skills at all, you're shackled by convenience foods or fast food or DoorDash. But if you at least have the skills, you have many more choices. Teens want agency, autonomy, and freedom, so I speak that into their lives. Ideally, the younger you build the skills, the more time you have to practice, gain experience, and get better.There's no way your older son could have been making up soups out of his head the first month he ever touched chicken—maybe he's a musician, so maybe he could apply the blues scale to cooking quickly—but most people can't.Sarah: As we're speaking, I'm reflecting that my kids probably did get a lot of cooking instruction because we were together all the time. They would watch me and they'd do the standing on a chair and cutting things and stirring things. It just wasn't super organized.That's why I'm so glad you have courses that can help people learn how to teach their children or have their kids learn on their own.I promised we would talk about screens. I'm really curious. It sounds like your kids have a lot of life skills and pretty full lives. Something I get asked all the time is: with teens and screens, how do you avoid “my kid is on their phone or video games for six or seven hours a day”? What did you do in your family, and what thoughts might help other people?Katie: Absolutely. Parenting is always hard. It's an ongoing battle. I think I'm staying on the right side of the numbers, if there are numbers. I feel like I'm launching kids into the world who aren't addicted to their phones. That's a score, and it's tough because I work on screens. I'm telling parents, “Buy products to put your kids on screen,” so it's like, “Wait.”I don't look at screens as a dichotomy of good or bad, but as: how do we talk to our kids about the quality of their time on screens?Back in 2020, when the world shut down, my oldest, Paul, was a freshman. His freshman year got cut short. He went weeks with zero contact with friends, and he fell into a ton of YouTube time and some video games. We thought, “This is an unprecedented time, but we can't let bad habits completely take over.”We sat down with him and said, “Listen, there are different kinds of screen time.” We qualified them as consumptive—everything is coming out of the screen at you—creative—you're making something—and communicative—you're socializing with other people.We asked him what ways he uses screens. We made a chart on a piece of paper and had him categorize his screen time. Then we asked what he thought he wanted his percentage of screen time to be in those areas—without evaluating his actual time yet. He assigned those times, and then we had him pay attention to what reality was. Reality was 90 to 95% consumptive. It was an amazing lightbulb moment. He realized that to be an agent of his own screen time, he had to make intentional choices.He started playing video games with a buddy through the headphones. That change completely changed his demeanor. That was a tough time.So that's the basis of our conversation: what kind of screen time are you having?For my 11-year-old, he still has minute limits: he sets a timer and stops himself. But if he's playing a game with someone, he gets double the time. That's a quantitative way to show him it's more valuable to be with someone than by yourself on a screen. A pretty simple rule.We'll also say things like, “People over screens.” If a buddy comes over and you're playing a video game, your friend is at the door.That's also what I talk to parents about with our classes: this isn't fully consumptive screen time. We highly edit things. We try to keep it engaging and fun so they're on for a set number of minutes and then off, getting their fingers dirty and getting into the real world. We keep their brains and hands engaged beyond the screen. The only way I can get a chef into your home is through the screen—or you pay a thousand dollars.We can see our screen time as really high quality if we make the right choices. It's got to be roundabout 10, 11, 12: pulling kids into the conversation about how we think about this time.Sarah: I love that. It sounds like you were giving your kids tools to look at their own screen time and how they felt about it, rather than you coming from on high and saying, “That's enough. Get off.”Katie: Trying.Sarah: I approach it similarly, though not as organized. I did have limits for my daughter. My sons were older when screens became ubiquitous. For my daughter, we had a two-hour limit on her phone that didn't include texting or anything social—just Instagram, YouTube, that kind of stuff. I think she appreciated it because she recognized it's hard to turn it off.We would also talk about, “What else are you doing today?” Have you gone outside? Have you moved your body? Have you done any reading? All the other things. And how much screen time do you think is reasonable? Variety is a favorite word around here.Katie: Yes. So much so my 11-year-old will come to me and say, “I've played outside, I've read a book, my homework is done. Can I have some screen time?” He already knows what I'm going to ask. “Yes, Mom, I've had variety.” Then: “Okay, set a timer for 30 minutes.”I have a 14-year-old freshman right now. He does not own a phone.Sarah: Oh, wow. I love that.Katie: In modern America, he knows the pathway to get a phone—and he doesn't want one.Sarah: That's great. I hope we see that more and more. I worry about how much kids are on screens and how much less they're talking to each other and doing things.I had a guest on my podcast who's a retired video game developer. His thing is how to not fight with your kid about video games. One thing he recommends is—even more than playing online with someone else—get them in the same room together. Then they can play more. He has different time rules if you're playing in person with kids in your living room than if you're playing alone or playing online with someone else.Katie: Nice. Totally. My story was from COVID times.Sarah: Yes, that wasn't an option then. Someone I heard say the other day: “Can we just live in some unprecedented times, please?”Katie: Yes, please.Sarah: You mentioned the intrinsic motivation of somebody admiring their guacamole. What are your tips for kids—especially teens—who think they're too busy or just super uninterested in cooking?Katie: Teens are a tough species. Motivation is a dance. I really encourage parents to participate in future casting. Once they're about 15, they're old enough. Academically, they're being future-casted all the time: “What are you going to be when you grow up?” They're choosing courses based on university paths. But we need to future-cast about real life too.Ask your 15-year-old: “Have you ever thought about what it'll be like to be in your first apartment?” Maybe they haven't. That helps reduce that first-year-out-of-home anxiety—to have imagined it. Then they might realize they have gaps. “Would you be interested in making sure you can cook some basic stuff for those first years? When you're cooking at home, it's my money you waste if you screw up.” That can be motivating. “I'm here to help.”Sometimes it comes down to a dictate from above, which is not my favorite. Your sister and you were asked to cook at third and fifth grade. I agree that might be a little young for being assigned a full meal. We start around 12 in our house. But by high school, there's really no reason—other than busy schedules. If they're in a sport or extracurricular daily, that can be rough. So what could they do? Could they make a Sunday brunch? We come home from church every Sunday and my daughter—she's 17, grade 12—she's faster than I am now. She'll have the eggs and sausage pretty much done. I'm like, “I'm going to go change out of my church clothes. Thanks.”If we're creative, there's always some time and space. We have to eat three times a day. Sometimes it might be: “You're old enough. It's important as a member of this household to contribute. I'm willing to work with you on really busy weeks, but from now on, you need to cook on Saturday nights.” I don't think that has to be a massive power struggle—especially with the future casting conversation. If you can get them to have a tiny bit of motivation—tiny bit of thinking of, “Why do I need this?”—and the idea of “If I cook, I get to make what I want,” and the budget.Sarah: The budget too: if you're living in your own apartment, how much do you think rent is? How much do you think you can eat for? It's way more expensive to order out or get fast food than to cook your own food.Katie: I feel so proud as a fellow mom of your son, Asa, for making soups and stuff. In Teens Cook Real Food, we teach how to make homemade bone broth by taking the carcass of a chicken. It's a very traditional skill. On camera, I asked the girls who did it with me to help me figure out what their dollar-per-hour pay rate was for making that, compared to an equal quality you buy in the store. Bone broth at the quality we can make is very expensive—like $5 a cup.They did the math and their hourly pay was over $70 an hour to make that bone broth. Then they have gallons of bone broth, and I call it the snowball effect: you have all this broth and you're like, “I guess I'll make soup.” Soup tends to be huge batches, you can freeze it, and it snowballs into many homemade, inexpensive, nourishing meals.Sarah: I love that. You've mentioned your course a couple times—Teens Cook Real Food. I'm picturing that as your kids grew up, your teaching audience grew up too. Were there other reasons you wanted to teach teens how to cook?Katie: Yes. We've had our kids' cooking class for 10 years now. It just had its 10th birthday. The most often requested topic that's not included in the kids' class is meal planning and grocery shopping. It wasn't something I felt like an eight-year-old needed.For 10 years I had that seed of, “How can I incorporate those important skills of meal planning and grocery shopping?” Then my teens got older, and I thought, “I've told parents of teens that our kids' cooking class will work for them, but it's not enough. It wasn't sufficient.”It was so exciting to put this course together. Even just the thinking—the number of index cards I had on the floor with topics trying to figure out what a young adult needs in their first apartment, how to connect the skills, and how to make it engaging.We ended up with eight teens I hired from my local community—some with cooking experience, some with literally none. We had on-camera accidents and everything. But they learned to cook in my kitchen, and it's all recorded for your teens to learn from.Sarah: I love that. What are some of the recipes that you teach in the course?Katie: We have over 35. We spent a whole day with a chef. He started talking about flavor and how seasonings work, and he taught us the mother sauces—like a basic white sauce, both gluten-free and dairy-free, a couple ways to do that, and a basic red sauce, and a couple ways to do that.My favorite cheeky segment title is “How to Boil Water.” We have a bunch of videos on how to boil water—meaning you can make pasta, rice, oatmeal, hard-boiled eggs, boiled potatoes. There's a lot of stuff that goes in water.Then we built on that with “How to Eat Your Vegetables.” We teach sautéing, steaming, and roasting. The first big recipe they learn is a basic sheet pan dinner. We use pre-cooked sausage and vegetables of your choice, seasonings of your choice. It's one of those meals where you're like, “I don't need a recipe. I can just make this up and put it in the oven.”Then, to go with pasta and red sauce, we teach homemade meatballs. We get them at the grill for steak and chicken and burgers. Of course we do French fries in a couple different ways.Choice is a huge element of this course. If we teach something, we probably teach it in two or three or four different ways, so teens can adapt to preferences, food sensitivities, and anything like that.We use the Instant Pot a lot in our “How to Eat Your Protein” segment. We do a pork roast and a beef roast and a whole chicken, and that broth I talked about, and we make a couple different soups with that.Sarah: You almost make me feel like I haven't had lunch yet.Katie: I'm starving, actually.Sarah: I'm quite an adventurous eater and cook, but I'm going to ask you about my two favorite foods—because they're like a child's favorite foods, but my favorite foods are pizza and tacos. Do you do anything with pizza and tacos in your course?Katie: We do both pizza and tacos.Sarah: Good!Katie: Our chef taught us, with that homemade red sauce, to make homemade dough. He said, “I think we should teach them how to make a homemade brick oven and throw the pizzas into the oven.” Throwing means sliding the pizza off a pizza peel onto bricks in your oven. I was like, “We're going to make such a mess,” but they did it. It's awesome.Then we tested it at home: can you just make this in a normal pizza pan? Yes, you can—don't worry. You don't have to buy bricks, but you can. Again, there are different ways.Sarah: I think teenagers would love making pizza on bricks in the oven. For us we're like, “That seems like so much work.” But teenagers are enthusiastic and creative and they have so much energy. They're wonderful human beings. I can see how the brick oven pizza would be a great challenge for them.Katie: It's so fun. My kids, Paul and John—20 and 14—they've both done it at home. As adults we're like, “It's such a mess,” but we're boring people. Teenagers are not boring. So yes—definitely pizza.Sarah: That's awesome. We'll link to your course in the show notes. Before we let you go, where's the best place for people to go and find out more about you and what you do?Katie: Definitely: raisinghealthyfamilies.com/peacefulparenting. We're going to make sure there's always something about teens at that link—whether it's a free preview of the course or a parenting workshop from me. There will always be something exciting for parents there.Sarah: Amazing. It's been such a pleasure. I thought maybe I didn't do all this stuff, but considering how both of my sons who are independent cook for themselves all the time, I think I must have done okay—even if it was just by osmosis.Katie: That's the great thing about keeping your kids near you. That was your peaceful parenting: they were in the kitchen and they were there, as opposed to you booting them out of the kitchen. There are lots of ways.Sarah: My daughter is an incredible baker. She makes the best chocolate chip cookies. I have this recipe for muffin-tin donuts that are amazing, and she's a really great baker. She can find her way around a quesadilla, eggs, and ramen for herself. I think once she moves out, if she doesn't have mom's cooking anymore, she'll probably also be able to cook.Katie: Yes. And so many parents need that bridge. They're like, “My kids love to make cookies. They bake, but they won't shift to cooking.” I would hope that future-casting conversation could be a good bridge.Sarah: Yeah. You can't live on cookies—or you might think you can for a little while, but then you'd start to feel gross.Katie: Exactly.Sarah: Thanks a lot, Katie.Katie: Thank you so much, Sarah. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit sarahrosensweet.substack.com/subscribe

In this new podcast, Dr. Jordan describes research that reveals that homework does not produce better academic achievement and can have a destructive effect on student's interest in learning, their depth of understanding, and their preference for challenging tasks. Dr. Jordan also offers some solutions to consider for dealing with this issue. Resources on this topic:Making Kids Work a Second Shift: Alfie Kohn article 11-1-25:The Homework Myth: Why Our Kids Get Too Much of a Bad Thing; Alfie Kohn, (Da Capo Press, 2006)The Pros and Cons of Homework: Edutopia, Youki Terada, 9-26-25The End of Homework: How Homework Disrupts Families, Overburdens Children, and Limits Learning; Etta Kralovec and John Buell, (Beacon Press, 2000)The Game of School: Why we play it, how it hurts kids, and what it will take to change it; Robert FriedDr. Jordan's website: www.drtimjordan.com To send Dr. Jordan comments on his posts and to offer ideas for future podcasts, email him at Anne@drtimjordan.comThank you for listening to my podcast.  Please join our community on our social media platforms and share with yours to help us grow!

Play is not a luxury—it's a biological necessity. From early childhood through adulthood, play fuels cognitive growth, emotional resilience, social competence, and physical development. This article and podcast episode explore why play matters, how it shapes learning, and what educators and caregivers must consider to protect and promote it. Read the article here: https://thevoiceofearlychildhood.com/why-play-how-to-make-play-an-essential-part-of-early-education/   This episode is sponsored by Funding Loop   Funding Loop automates the process for nurseries of collecting funding forms from parents and typing that information into council portals. Funding Loop is used by over 2000 nurseries including over 80% of the top 25 nursery chains in the UK including Busy Bees.   To find out more visit: https://www.fundingloop.co.uk/home   Our 2026 conference info & tickets: https://thevoiceofearlychildhood.com/early-years-conference-2026/   Listen to more: If you enjoyed this episode, you might also like: ·       Elevating children's thinking: Conceptual understanding through inquiry and play, by Sue Tee - https://thevoiceofearlychildhood.com/elevating-childrens-thinking-conceptual-understanding-through-inquiry-and-play/ ·       Advocacy, agency and rights in early childhood, by Dr Jo Albin-Clark and Dr Nathan Archer - https://thevoiceofearlychildhood.com/advocacy-agency-and-rights-in-early-childhood/   Get in touch and share your voice: Do you have thoughts, questions or feedback? Get in touch here! – https://thevoiceofearlychildhood.com/contact/   Episode break down: 00:00 – Welcome and episode introduction 01:36 – Framing the central question: why play? 02:37 – Play as nature's plan for learning and why sitting harms 04:11 – Parental pressure, misinformation and the 'earlier is better' myth 05:03 – A global pushdown of academics in early childhood (US and UK) 05:47 – Educators torn between child development knowledge and policy demands 06:29 – Policymakers' power and Alfie Kohn's analogy 08:22 – Losing play from five onwards and revisiting child development 09:41 – Free play as child-initiated, child-chosen learning 10:24 – Guided play and supporting self-regulation (the statues game) 11:17 – Joy, fun and intrinsic motivation in learning 11:45 – Outdoor, nature and cooperative play versus competition 13:37 – The brevity of childhood and 'what is the hurry?' 14:24 – Knowing when to step back in children's conflicts 15:49 – Understanding and valuing rough and tumble play 16:07 – Risky or adventurous play and learning to assess risk 17:39 – Reading cues for when to intervene in rough and tumble play 18:33 – Rethinking 'calm down' and supporting different arousal states 20:22 – Play as a way to express and process emotions 21:47 – Co-creating rules, personal space and managing movement and sound 23:16 – Developmental readiness for sitting still (around six) 24:10 – Unrealistic expectations of three-year-olds (sitting still and pencil grip) 24:47 – Behaviour as a response to developmental mismatch and lack of movement 25:22 – Fidgeting, movement and alternative ways of paying attention 27:11 – Children who 'don't know how to play' and aggressive play 28:54 – Modelling, scaffolding and gently redirecting play 29:36 – Using invitations and provocations to deepen play 31:55 – 'Play Matters' and reconnecting with theory, research and advocacy 33:32 – Remembering our own childhood joy as a guide for practice 35:35 – Big body play, physical health and strong bodies 36:27 – Integrating literacy and maths through active, playful experiences 37:04 – Multi-sensory, embodied learning and why it sticks 39:13 – Play as integrated, holistic learning across content areas 40:39 – Reflective questions for educators about honouring play 41:33 – Small steps for change and everyday acts of advocacy For more episodes and articles visit The Voice of Early Childhood website: https://www.thevoiceofearlychildhood.com

Alfie Kohn returns to the show to discuss his new podcast, the role of teachers in social progress, and why someone's view on chatbots in the classroom tells you eveything you need to know about their view of education.You can listen to Kohn's Zone wherever you get your podcasts, or get it straight from his website: https://www.alfiekohn.org/podcasts/

Most parents would say, “Of course I love my child unconditionally.” But what if — without even realizing it — we sometimes make our kids feel like our love depends on their behavior, their grades, or how easy they are to parent? In this episode of The Art of Raising Humans, we (Kyle & Sara Wester) unpack 13 powerful insights from Alfie Kohn's book Unconditional Parenting. As we read and reflect on each one, you may find yourself thinking: “Oh wow, I didn't realize I was doing that.” You'll hear:The hidden ways we accidentally attach conditions to our love.Why these patterns shape how children see themselves and us.13 shifts that help kids grow up knowing our love is steady, even when they struggle. This episode isn't about blame or guilt. It's about uncovering the blind spots we all have and learning how to build a relationship where our children feel truly secure in our love, no matter what. View the full podcast transcript at: https://www.artofraisinghumans.com/are-you-loving-unconditionally-13-surprising-ways-we-put-strings-on-our-love. Visit our website and social media channels for more valuable content for your parenting journey. Resource Website: https://www.artofraisinghumans.comVideo Courses: https://art-of-raising-humans.newzenler.com/Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/artofraisinghumansInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/artofraisinghumansPodcast Website: https://www.theartofraisinghumans.comBook List:https://www.artofraisinghumans.com/booklist The Art of Raising Humans podcast should not be considered or used as counseling but for educational purposes only.

A viral trend called “FAFO parenting” is exploding on TikTok and even making headlines in the Wall Street Journal. Advocates say it’s the antidote to “soft” parenting — let kids fuss around and find out the hard way. But is this tough-love comeback really preparing kids for life or setting them up for harm? In this episode, Justin and Kylie unpack the hype, the dangers, and the research-backed alternative every parent needs to hear. In this episode: What FAFO (“Fuss Around and Find Out”) parenting actually looks like — and why it’s trending The three big claims FAFO parents make Why FAFO backfires The vital difference between natural consequences and manufactured hardships How “need-supportive parenting” builds resilience without breaking trust QUOTE OF THE EPISODE “Discipline isn’t about hurting kids to prove a point. It’s about problem-solving so they can discover the lesson.” RESOURCES MENTIONED Wall Street Journal article on FAFO parenting (subscription required) Alfie Kohn, Punished by Rewards More parenting resources: happyfamilies.com.au ACTION STEPS FOR PARENTS Resist the temptation to outsource learning to punishment. When mistakes happen, guide your child through problem-solving instead of powerplays. Protect the parent–child relationship — resilience grows best where trust is strong. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Some tools are built to help us grow; to learn, connect, or reach meaningful goals. But eventually, we might ask: are these tools still working for us, or have they hooked us and quietly turned us into their tool? This question has been on my mind since I started using Duolingo seventy-six days ago. I had just returned from a trip to Finland and wanted to keep learning a bit of Finnish: nothing too intense, just some gentle exposure to the language each day. From what others had said, Duolingo seemed like the ideal tool. I started on the free version. It offered just enough. However, I was soon being nudged constantly toward the premium upgrade. Eventually, I gave in and accepted the offer of a 7-day trial. Before I knew it, £68.99 was taken from my account. Dagh! I had forgotten to cancel in time. That was frustrating. But what I noticed next was fascinating. Over time, I realised I was no longer using Duolingo to expand my learning outside of the app. I was using it to keep my streak alive inside it. It works. And it works well. But it also works against us (and our bigger picture aspirations). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N8tC3VtbgSk The Hook Model in Action This shift in behaviour mirrors the “Hook Model” described by Nir Eyal in his book Hooked, which outlines how habit-forming products are designed to draw us in and keep us there. The hook model follows a four-step cycle: Trigger – External cues like notifications or internal ones like guilt or fear of missing out. Action – The easiest possible behaviour in response to the trigger, like opening the app or doing a lesson. Variable Reward – Unpredictable reinforcement like badges, praise, or social validation that keeps us engaged. Investment – The time, energy, or money we've already poured into the product, which makes it harder to walk away. This system is incredibly effective at building engagement, but it often does so by subtly shifting our focus from what we originally cared about to what keeps the platform profitable. When the Tool Hooks Us What starts as a helpful tool can morph into a system that prioritises retention over transformation. Only 0.1% of Duolingo users ever complete a full course. That isn't a design flaw; it's the business model. The goal is not to help us complete something, but to keep us inside the ecosystem. Duolingo began nudging me toward other courses I hadn't asked for. Music theory. Chess. It was no longer about Finnish. It was about keeping me engaged, clicking, and coming back. This is when a tool becomes a trap, not because it stops working, but because it starts working too well at the wrong thing (keeping us engaged). From Motivation to Manipulation This isn't just about language apps. It's about how many of our digital experiences are shaped by systems designed to extract our wealth and capture our attention, energy, and even our identity. In Punished by Rewards, Alfie Kohn warns that external motivators like badges, praise, or pizza vouchers for reading not only influence behaviour but also diminish it. Over time, we stop asking “Why do I care about this?” and instead ask “What do I get for it?” In The Burnout Society, philosopher Byung-Chul Han argues that we have shifted from a culture of external discipline to one of internalised self-optimisation. We no longer rely on a manager or teacher to pressure us; instead, we pressure ourselves. Rest is viewed as a failure. Play is considered wasted time. Self-worth is now linked to productivity. Apps like Duolingo thrive in this cultural moment. They don't just support our goals; they reshape them. We start wanting to learn a language and end up wanting to maintain a streak. What once felt like growth begins to feel like a contract we're stuck in. The Rocket Booster Test Good tools (as well as teachers, programs, coaches, therapists, etc) should be like solid rocket boosters: they help us launch,

We sit down with world-renowned author and speaker Alfie Kohn to explore why traditional discipline methods—punishments and rewards—don’t truly work. We unpack how control-based parenting backfires, what the research says about intrinsic motivation, and how parents can move from “doing things to children” to “working with children” to foster true moral development and connection. KEY POINTS: Punishment teaches power, not morality—it damages relationships and promotes self-interest over empathy. Rewards, including praise and star charts, undermine intrinsic motivation and long-term growth. Both punishments and rewards focus on short-term compliance at the cost of deeper learning and ethical development. Real change happens when parents collaborate with children, exploring problems and empowering kids to find solutions. Effective parenting means questioning whether our expectations are reasonable and focusing on trust and respect. QUOTE OF THE EPISODE:“All rewards are just sugar-coated control.” RESOURCES MENTIONED: Punished by Rewards by Alfie Kohn Unconditional Parenting by Alfie Kohn Happy Families resources – happyfamilies.com.au ACTION STEPS FOR PARENTS: Shift from control to collaboration—work with your child to solve problems, rather than doing things to them. Question your assumptions—ask yourself whether your expectations are developmentally appropriate and reasonable. Talk less, ask more—engage your child in reflective conversations about their choices and experiences. Move beyond rewards and punishments—focus on building intrinsic motivation by nurturing autonomy, competence, and relatedness. Stay patient—working with children takes more effort initially but leads to deeper, lasting change and stronger relationships. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This episode of The Peaceful Parenting Podcast is a conversation with Alfie Kohn, the author of 14 books including Unconditional Parenting and The Myth of the Spoiled Child. The work of Alfie Kohn has been one of the biggest influences on how I parent and why I have dedicated my career to being a Peaceful Parenting Coach. We discuss why people have always thought parents are too permissive, the nuance involved in “working with” our kids, and why we need to raise reflective rebels who question what they are told. We talk about: 7:00 Why people think we are “too soft” and permissive with kids 12:00 How black and white thinking gets in the way of peaceful parenting 15:37 “Working with” parenting vs. intensive or helicopter parenting 22:00 Why some kids need more parental support 24:00 Why we need to be realistic and raise “reflective rebels”   Download the episode transcript HERE    Resources mentioned in this episode: The Myth of the Spoiled Child  Unconditional Parenting    Connect with Sarah Rosensweet:   Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/sarahrosensweet/  Facebook Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/peacefulparentingfreegroup YouTube: Peaceful Parenting with Sarah Rosensweet @peacefulparentingwithsarah4194 Website: https://reimaginepeacefulparenting.com   Join us on Patreon: www.patreon.com/peacefulparenting  Newsletter: https://reimaginepeacefulparenting.com/newsletter  Book a short consult or coaching session call: https://book-with-sarah-rosensweet.as.me/schedule.php 

What if both punishments and rewards were doing more harm than good? In this thought-provoking episode, Dr. Justin and Kylie Coulson preview a powerful interview with renowned author and social critic Alfie Kohn, whose work challenges everything we thought we knew about behavior, discipline, and motivation. Discover why traditional approaches to parenting might be undermining your child’s moral development—and what to do instead. QUOTE OF THE EPISODE:"Punishment teaches power. It undermines the possibility of moral growth in children." — Alfie Kohn KEY INSIGHTS FOR PARENTS: Punishments Breed Self-Interest: When children are punished, they focus inward on avoiding pain, not outward on the consequences of their actions for others. Rewards Are the Flip Side of Punishments: Offering incentives fosters compliance, not character—and undermines intrinsic motivation. Consequences ≠ Learning: Just because something causes suffering doesn’t mean it leads to meaningful growth or moral insight. Transactional Parenting Limits Growth: Using "if-then" tactics (do this, get that) stifles empathy and moral reasoning. What We Really Want: Kids who do the right thing because it’s right, not because of fear or bribery. RESOURCES MENTIONED: Punished by Rewards by Alfie Kohn Unconditional Parenting by Alfie Kohn Full interview with Alfie Kohn (airing Saturday on the Happy Families Podcast) Website: happyfamilies.com.au ACTION STEPS FOR PARENTS: Reflect on Your Approach: Ask yourself—am I raising a rule follower or a morally grounded child? Minimise External Motivators: Reduce the use of punishments and rewards in everyday parenting. Focus on Conversations: Engage your child in discussions about values, empathy, and the impact of their actions. Model Moral Reasoning: Let your children see you making decisions based on principles, not payoffs. Tune in Saturday: Don’t miss the full conversation with Alfie Kohn for more transformative ideas. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

In this thought-provoking episode, Kyle and Sara Wester sit down with renowned author and speaker Alfie Kohn—a powerful voice challenging traditional ideas about parenting, discipline, education, and motivation. Alfie doesn't hold back as he dives into the unintended consequences of using rewards, punishments, and even praise with children. His insights, grounded in decades of research, have radically reshaped how countless parents and educators approach behavior and discipline. This conversation is equal parts challenging and inspiring—and yes, it even moved Sara to tears. Why? Because Alfie doesn't just critique outdated approaches—he paints a compelling picture of what's possible when we parent with unconditional love, curiosity, and trust. In this episode, Kyle and Sara explore:Why rewards and punishment may undermine intrinsic motivationHow praise can backfire—and what to do insteadWhat it looks like to support children's autonomy and growthHow schools and families can foster genuine cooperation, not compliance Listeners will walk away with not only a deeper understanding of why traditional discipline falls short, but how to do things differently—and more effectively.About Our Guest:Alfie Kohn is the author of 14 influential books, including Punished by Rewards, Unconditional Parenting, The Myth of the Spoiled Child, and The Schools Our Children Deserve. He's been featured on Oprah, The Today Show, and numerous other national platforms. His work has helped parents and educators across the globe rethink what it truly means to raise and teach children with respect and connection.Learn more at

Could the way we celebrate kids at school actually be leaving many of them behind? In this episode, Dr. Justin and Kylie Coulson unpack the hidden costs of awards, assemblies, and school trips. From motivation to mental health, they explore how traditional recognition systems can impact children—and what we can do instead to help every child feel seen, supported, and valued. KEY POINTS: Awards ceremonies often benefit the same high achievers, leaving many students feeling invisible or unworthy. External rewards can reduce intrinsic motivation, especially in areas of creativity, effort, and behaviour. Assemblies can either unite a community or create anxiety and disconnection, depending on how they're run. Away days and camps offer valuable opportunities for growth—but need to be inclusive and purposeful. Children thrive when they feel seen, valued, and part of something bigger than themselves. QUOTE OF THE EPISODE:“Kids don’t need a trophy to know they matter. They need connection, encouragement, and a belief that they belong.” KEY INSIGHTS FOR PARENTS: Praise effort and process, not just outcomes. Be cautious about over-relying on rewards—consider what motivates your child from within. Talk with your child about how school events make them feel—do they feel recognised and included? Encourage educators to focus on connection and belonging in school-wide activities. RESOURCES MENTIONED: Deci & Ryan’s research on Self-Determination Theory Studies on rewards and motivation from Alfie Kohn and Carol Dweck Justin Coulson’s book 10 Things Every Parent Needs to Know ACTION STEPS FOR PARENTS: Ask your child how they feel during awards assemblies—validate their emotions. Focus your praise on effort, character, and perseverance rather than outcomes. Advocate for inclusive school events that celebrate all students, not just a few. If your child misses out on recognition, remind them of their value through connection and encouragement. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Hello everyone! Today, I am releasing what I believe is the most important podcast in the history of the show. Not only is it filled with honest and real world talk, it is filled with research based advice and insight from one of the premier thinkers on education today. In this episode, I sit down with Alfie Kohn and discuss a range of topics, such as why grading hurts more than it helps, why rewards do more harm than good, and why the testing obsession leads to bad teaching. I consider these the three pillars of what holds up an outdated educational model, and Alfie Kohn is the main reason for that perspective. Without a doubt, Alfie has influenced my teaching in such fundamental ways, and I know his thinking, research, and expertise will encourage you to question some of the norms of our educational climate. Alfie Kohn writes and speaks widely on human behavior, education, and parenting. The most recent of his 14 books are SCHOOLING BEYOND MEASURE…And Other Unorthodox Essays About Education (2015) and THE MYTH OF THE SPOILED CHILD: Challenging the Conventional Wisdom About Children and Parenting (2014).  Of his earlier titles, the best known are PUNISHED BY REWARDS (1993), NO CONTEST: The Case Against Competition (1986), UNCONDITIONAL PARENTING (2005), and THE SCHOOLS OUR CHILDREN DESERVE (1999).  

No Contest by Alfie Kohn stands as the definitive critique of competition. Contrary to accepted wisdom, competition is not basic to human nature; it poisons our relationships and holds us back from doing our best. In this new edition, Alfie Kohn argues that the race to win turns all of us into losers.The Case Against Competition"No Contest" by Alfie Kohn Book PReviewBook of the Week - BOTW - Season 8 Book 10Buy the book on Amazon https://amzn.to/4kKwWKjGET IT. READ :)#cooperation #nocompetition #awarenessFIND OUT which HUMAN NEED is driving all of your behaviorhttp://6-human-needs.sfwalker.com/Human Needs Psychology + Emotional Intelligence + Universal Laws of Nature = MASTER OF LIFE AWARENESShttps://www.sfwalker.com/master-life-awareness

Ok - big moment you guys. I'm excited (and somewhat embarrassed!) to share this special conversation with you—one that originally aired back in 2022 in my Facebook community Let's Raise Emotionally Intelligent Kids.Looking back, I can't help but cringe! I was SO nervous and excited to be speaking with the universal expert on parenting, education, and human behaviour: Alfie Kohn.Let's just say I wasn't as polished or professional as I am now… but the insights and wisdom? They're just as powerful today as they were then.Alfie Kohn, renowned author of Punished by Rewards, No Contest, The Homework Myth, and my personal favourite, Unconditional Parenting, (plus many others!) brings his groundbreaking research and passion for progressive education to this chat.In this episode, we dive into:

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In this (2 hour+ !) episode of Revolution Now (Episode 54), Peter Joseph examines the complexities of systemic transition and the limitations of reformist approaches to change, including a critical review of Jason Hickel's work. The episode concludes with a 40-minute conversation with Alfie Kohn on the destructive nature of competition. Key topics include: -Defining capitalism in a coherent and precise way. -The strategic foundation of the Integral Parallel Economy project. -The importance of out-system leverage points in driving meaningful change. -Value distortions within market economics (exchange vs use) -Why negative human behaviors are often mislabeled as human nature. -The common failures of social movements and the dangers of group identity. And more. Please support Peter's efforts through Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/peterjoseph or  Direct Donation: https://www.gentlemachineproductions.com/checkout/donate?donatePageId=5f1ef0539d5bc56fac97a266  Website & Transcript: Pending Medium Transcript: Pending Read the latest Substack: https://substack.com/home/post/p-149986086?source=queue&autoPlay=false  Get Peter's book, The New Human Rights Movement: https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/691520/the-new-human-rights-movement-by-peter-joseph/  Join his mailing list: https://www.peterjoseph.info/  This podcast is also available on Apple, Spotify, Podbean, Google Podcasts.  Website & Free Archive https://www.revolutionnow.live/  Join Reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/RevolutionNowPodcast/  “Zeitgeist | Requiem” Trailer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zlJ8KPZakNI  About Peter: https://www.peterjoseph.info/biography  Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/peterjosephofficial  Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/peterjosephofficial

Guest: David Heinemeier Hansson, CTO & co-owner of 37signals and creator of Ruby on Rails 37signals CTO David Heinemeier Hansson has organized his life around his passions: Writing, racing sports cars, and coding. “ Why aren't we all doing that?” he wonders. “Why aren't we all trying to optimize our life in such a way that much of it is enjoyable?”Part of the problem, David argues, is that it's impossible to find a creative or productive flow inside of mainstream work culture. Open offices, managerial over-hiring, and sloppy scheduling prevents people from reaching a flow state.“40 hours a week is plenty than most people,” he says. “... So many people today are focused on just adding more and more hours. They're not thinking about how those hours are spent.” Chapters:(01:19) - 24 Hours of Le Mans (06:48) - Amateurs in sports car racing (10:54) - Flow and meditation (15:25) - Mundane bulls**t (18:14) - Optimizing for flow (21:09) - Calendars and open offices (24:30) - Full-time managers (29:06) - Small companies (32:20) - Selfishness and work (40:21) - Taking other people's money (45:43) - Temptation (49:49) - Moderately rich (55:19) - “The day I became a millionaire” (58:56) - The hassle (01:03:58) - Achieving the dream (01:08:34) - Shopify and Tobias Lütke (01:14:50) - Trade-offs and downsides (01:18:43) - The impact of Ruby on Rails (01:22:02) - “I love being wrong” (01:25:37) - DEI and illegal drugs (01:29:49) - Not hiring (01:30:35) - What “grit” means to David Mentioned in this episode: TikTok, Minecraft, Mario Kart, Formula One, NASCAR, Lewis Hamilton, the NBA, Tesla Model S, Flow: The Psychology of Optimal Experience by Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi, Steve McQueen, Jason Fried, Tetris, Bullshit Jobs: A Theory by David Graeber, Elon Musk and Twitter, the Dunbar number, Zappos, Google, Adam Smith, Stripe, Meta, Jeff Bezos, Basecamp, Zapier, 1Password, GitHub, SpaceX, private jets, Aesop, the Pagani Zonda, the Porsche Boxster, Lamborghini, Coco Chanel, LeBron James, Hey, Steve Jobs, Michael Arrington and TechCrunch, Y Combinator, Dr. Thomas Sowell,Punished by Rewards by Alfie Kohn, Grit by Angela Duckworth, and LEGO. Links:Connect with DavidTwitterLinkedInConnect with JoubinTwitterLinkedInEmail: grit@kleinerperkins.com Learn more about Kleiner PerkinsThis episode was edited by Eric Johnson from LightningPod.fm

Alfie Kohn's book Unconditional Parenting has been a paradigm-shifting read. It has completely reorientated my relationship with my inner child and the way I pursue my self-development work. It has helped reshape the landscape of my partnership and has become a core topic of conversation and exploration as we near our own parenting chapter. In this episode, we get into all things parenting and how to navigate the waters of caregiving without relying on the manipulative tactics of punishment and reward. If you enjoyed the episode, please leave it a review! And check out https://www.alfiekohn.org/ to learn more about his work, tools, and resources.

In this episode, Peter Joseph critiques the pervasive belief in competition as a beneficial force for personal development, creativity, and societal progress. Drawing on research by Alfie Kohn and Daniel Pink, he argues that competition actually hinders creative problem-solving and distorts human motivation. Joseph explores how monetary rewards and the market economy create narrow, self-serving goals that undermine genuine innovation. He also discusses the harmful effects of market-driven incentives, such as planned obsolescence, and the interconnectedness of industries that profit from maintaining problems rather than solving them. Website & Transcript: https://www.revolutionnow.live/episode-52/ Medium Transcript: https://peter-joseph.medium.com/market-incentive-disorders-the-myth-of-competitive-benefit-0d25bf385e13 Please support Peter's efforts through Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/peterjoseph  or  Direct Donation: https://www.gentlemachineproductions.com/checkout/donate?donatePageId=5f1ef0539d5bc56fac97a266  Read latest Substack: https://substack.com/home/post/p-149986086?source=queue&autoPlay=false Get Peter's latest book, The New Human Rights Movement: https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/691520/the-new-human-rights-movement-by-peter-joseph/  Join his mailing list: https://www.peterjoseph.info/  This podcast is also available on Apple, Spotify, Podbean, Google Podcasts.  Website & Free Archive https://www.revolutionnow.live/  Join Reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/RevolutionNowPodcast/  “Zeitgeist | Requiem” Trailer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zlJ8KPZakNI About Peter: https://www.peterjoseph.info/biography  Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/peterjosephofficial  Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/peterjosephofficial

(NOTAS Y ENLACES DEL CAPÍTULO AQUÍ: https://www.jaimerodriguezdesantiago.com/kaizen/qa12-sistemas-de-aprendizaje-comunicacion-no-violenta-maternidad-y-paternidad-perfiles-hibridos-incentivos-al-educar-dolor-y-cambios-sociales/)¡Primer capítulo de preguntas y respuestas de esta temporada! Y con este, además, creo que me pongo al día de los mensajes acumulados. De hecho, me estoy planteando cambiar el formato y organizar de vez en cuando alguna grabación en streaming en la que podamos interactuar de forma más directa, pero no lo tengo del todo decidido y no sé tampoco si voy a tener realmente el tiempo de hacerlo, porque es probable que dentro de poco mi tiempo disponible se reduzca por un buen motivo, pero ya te lo contaré más adelante. Hoy el menú es de lo más variado, hablamos de sistemas de aprendizaje, de comunicación no verbal, de maternidad y paternidad, de cómo encajan los perfiles híbridos en el mundo laboral, del uso de incentivos al educar, del dolor y de cambios sociales. Casi nada.PATROCINADOR DEL CAPÍTULO: VDS.tech ¿Te gusta kaizen? Apoya el podcast uniéndote a la Comunidad y accede a contenidos y ventajas exclusivas: https://www.jaimerodriguezdesantiago.com/comunidad-kaizen/

(NOTAS Y ENLACES DEL CAPÍTULO AQUÍ: https://www.jaimerodriguezdesantiago.com/kaizen/bonus-los-incentivos-mueven-el-mundo-con-ion-cuervas-mons-y-francois-derbaix/)Por si no los tienes ubicados, te diré que François es un histórico del sector tecnológico y emprendedor español, al que conozco desde hace muchos años, cuando yo trataba con poca fortuna de sacar adelante un proyecto bastante alocado. Él fue, por ejemplo, fundador de TopRural y, más recientemente, de  Indexa Capital, de la que te he hablado muchas veces. Y te puedo asegurar que, además de un tipo encantador, es alguien de quien aprendo algo cada vez que hablamos, porque tiene una capacidad realmente especial para sacar aprendizajes de sus experiencias y transformarlas en un sentido común muy poco común. Y creo que eso se nota en nuestra charla.Ion, además de podcaster y maestro de ceremonias en este capítulo, es un perfil muy kaizen. Es arquitecto de formación, aunque tiene ese punto friki e híbrido tan típico de este podcast. Es un lector y consumidor de contenidos voraz y ha sido directivo y emprendedor en diferentes compañías. Actualmente es fundador de Rauda, una empresa dedicada a aplicar inteligencia artificial a la atención al cliente. Por cierto, que si te interesa la inteligencia artificial tienen también una newsletter imperdible: Raudamatic.Es curioso. Porque los tres tenemos un perfil muy asociado a los negocios tecnológicos y, sin embargo, nos liamos a hablar de algo enormemente humano: cómo funciona nuestra motivación, cómo se ve moldeada por los incentivos y cómo podemos tratar de trabajar con todo ello. Por el camino hablamos de innovación, de crianza y hasta del capitalismo y del comunismo. Y, por supuesto, de libros. De hecho, la idea de este capítulo surgió de un libro concreto que recomendé en Nada Que Ganar: Mixed Signals, de un israelí con apellido impronunciable: Uri GneezyY dicho todo esto, te dejo ya con esta conversación que tanto disfruté con Ion y François. Espero que a ti también te guste. ¡Ya están abiertas las inscripciones para la 2ª edición del programa de desarrollo directivo y liderazgo que dirijo en Tramontana! ¿Te interesa? Toda la info aquí: https://www.tramontana.net/desarrollo-directivo-liderazgo¿Te gusta kaizen? Apoya el podcast uniéndote a la Comunidad y accede a contenidos y ventajas exclusivas: https://www.jaimerodriguezdesantiago.com/comunidad-kaizen/

I'm joined by Alfie Kohn to discuss No Contest: The Case Against Competition, his 1986 book about how competition hurts rather than helps people do their best. We cover the problem with grades, the reason why excellence and competition are opposed, and whats wrong with rewards and what makes awards even worse.For more from Alfie, check out his website:https://www.alfiekohn.org/

In this week's episode we talk all about progressive education.I share and offer my reactions to the essay by Alfie Kohn entitled, Progressive Education: Why it's Hard to Beat, But Also Hard to Find.We share about what defines a progressive program, what progressive programs are not, why they are awesome, and why there is a resistance to them.Know a friend who loves early childhood? Share this podcast. Lot's more topics, tips, and fun on Instagram @prek.spotFor awesome merch and more info visit Pre-KSpot.comEven more free content inside out our weekly newsletter! Join today.We have so many amazing resources and FREEBIES just for you.

What if the very foundation of motivation, that we've leaned on for so long, is actually doing us more harm than good? Brace yourself for a shake-up as we dive into Alfie Cohn's provocative book, 'Punished by Rewards', a groundbreaker that has us reevaluating our beliefs around rewards in education and life in general. We explore the origin and effectiveness of rewards and their potential pitfalls, questioning whether they truly serve our goals or whether they erode our intrinsic motivation and foster a transactional view of relationships.We'll ponder together over the implications this book has for classroom settings and how it made me rethink my own practices as a parent and an early childhood teacher. From exploring the impact of reward systems on developing a growth mindset to how they can inadvertently promote a fixed mindset, let's unpack the arguments the book makes. We'll also talk about the aftermath of the book's publication, including the controversial reactions it sparked among different communities, and discuss the appendices that add further depth to the book's arguments. This is not just your regular book review. This is a call for reassessment and an invitation to a more thoughtful, conscious approach to motivation and success. Let's have this eye-opening conversation together.Know a friend who loves early childhood? Share this podcast. Lot's more topics, tips, and fun on Instagram @prek.spotFor awesome merch and more info visit Pre-KSpot.comEven more free content inside out our weekly newsletter! Join today.We have so many amazing resources and FREEBIES just for you.

Devices can calm our emotional children - but does a screen actually help them to emotionally regulate or is it just distracting them from their emotions in the heat of the moment? Are there long term consequences to letting screens "manage" a child's emotions? We also talk about a controversial topic - using "screen-time" as a reward! There is an important connection between screen use and children's executive function and emotional regulation, and it's not good news! In this episode: Your words have power:  @always.upper.elementary Toothpaste Words: The most important back to school lesson you can do Should we comment on someone's appearance? Cure for tantrums? Longitudinal associations between parental digital emotion regulation and children's self-regulatory skills Using devices as digital pacifiers Frustration tolerance Unplug Childhood: Join the village, sign the petition #1038 - Managing Emotional Dysregulation Tolerable discomfort Resilience Associations between media parenting practices and early adolescent screen use  Social media Using screens as punishment or reward leads to higher screen use Alfie Kohn, author of 'Punished by Rewards' Positive/negative reinforcement The most important "app" for our children Related links:  Unplugging Parenthood #137 Punishment & Rewards with Alfie Kohn . Doors are now open to the Happy Families Membership  NEW weekly kids' ‘Print & Play' subscription FELT (Fostering Emotional Learning Together) Find us on Facebook or TikTok Subscribe to the Happy Families newsletter  See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Education News Headline Roundup [00:02:24]Bloomberg Philanthropies has announced a $1 billion donation to Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine. This generous gift aims to cover tuition for a majority of students, addressing the financial barriers to medical education.Dr. Elena Aydarova's recent work critiques Science of Reading reforms, arguing they often disguise motives of standardization, centralization, and privatization. Her analysis, based on advocacy efforts in Tennessee, reveals how these policies may perpetuate inequalities. The discussion highlights the tension between evidence-based teaching methods and the political agendas that influence educational policy. [Bonus content: A brief back and forth with Alfie Kohn, author of Punished by Rewards and many other titles!]Textbook Case: The Making and Marketing of Educational Resources [00:13:45]Textbooks are essential educational resources used to align with standards, provide structured learning, and support lesson planning. The process of creating a textbook begins with identifying a market for the resource and often involves multiple authors or contributors and extensive review. Major publishers such as Pearson and McGraw-Hill dominate the market. Marketing efforts include social media promotion, trade shows, and direct outreach to schools and (increasingly) students. The textbook adoption process for many schools involves evaluation by educators and curriculum coordinators to ensure curricular alignment and often incorporates review committees and pilot testing. Digital versions and supplementary resources such as video, audio, and online coursework are now standard as publishers scramble to appeal to tech-friendly classrooms.Textbooks face criticism for being outdated, expensive, and potentially biased. They have the potential to promote standardization and test preparation over deep learning and critical thinking. Despite these issues, replacing textbooks is challenging due to the extensive effort required to update associated teaching materials, leading to prolonged use of flawed resources.Discussion Questions [00:35:30]1. What are the advantages and disadvantages of using textbooks versus original sources?2. What does it mean to treat a textbook as an authoritative source of information? Are we equipping students to interrogate these educational materials and approach them with a critical lens?3. Do textbooks contribute to over-standardization in education?Sources & Resources:Bloomberg Philanthropies Makes Medical School Free at Johns Hopkins Medical SchoolThe Science of Reading (16:1)Bloomberg's donation to Johns Hopkins gives medical students free tuitionWhat You See Is Not What You Get: Science of Reading Reforms As a Guise for Standardization, Centralization, and PrivatizationHow a textbook is made - Oxford University PressThe Schools Our Children Deserve - (Book) - Alfie KohnCengage and McGraw-Hill Terminate Merger AgreementTextbook publishers explore direct-to-student marketing and salesAbout NCPC - National Capital Planning CommissionParis Olympics by the numbers: Participating country stats and facts

In this minisode season finale, Melissa continues to share one of her favorite articles about voice and choice by Alfie Kohn. Choices for Children: Why and How to Let Students Decide. In addition, she talks about a time management concept that can be applied to the classroom and she looks back at the episodes of the fifth season.

In this minisode, Melissa shares from one of her favorite articles about voice and choice. Choices for Children: Why and How to Let Students Decide by Alfie Kohn lays out the rationale for voice and choice as well as what it looks like in practice. In this minisode, Melissa highlights the rationale and she will highlight what it looks like in practice in her next minisode.

So the research shows that punishment doesn't change behaviour? So then what do we actually do as teachers? What's on the table when other things feel like they are off it?In today's episode:I give you a few ins and outs of the impact of punitive punishmentWhy sometimes it seems to really work3 really tangible takeaways you can immediately apply in your classrooms Speaking of research, want to have a read? Here are some good places to start:Jean-Richard-Dit-Bressel P, Killcross S, McNally GP. Behavioral and neurobiological mechanisms of punishment: implications for psychiatric disorders. Neuropsychopharmacology. 2018;43(8):1639-1650. doi:10.1038/s41386-018-0047-3Lukowiak T, Bridges J. Punishment strategies: First choice or last resort. JAASEP. 2010:63-72.A great book that will sum up a bunch of research on punishments and rewards is Alfie Kohn's book Punished by Rewards.REGISTER HERE for the free live training: Turn your Teaching into a Classroom Management Machine*The waitlist for my signature training program That'll Teach ‘Em is now open! TTE gives you the exact roadmaps and resources you need to adopt a holistic behaviour approach, so you can walk into your classroom feeling confident, calm, and in control. Enrolment opens April 6th for the 2024 intake. So if you are ready to feel confident reducing, responding to, and resolving challenging classroom behaviours, join the waitlist now to claim an early-bird discount and course bonuses. Pre-order a copy of my book ‘It's Never Just About the Behaviour: A holistic approach to classroom behaviour management Other ways I can support you in your teaching practice: Download my free guide: 9 Tiny (But Mighty) Tips to Transform Your Teaching Follow me on Instagram for daily micro-professional learning and support Connect with me on LinkedIn

In this enlightening episode, join Dr. Tim Slecker and Dr. Johnny Lupinacci as they engage with renowned progressive educator Alfie Kohn to dismantle the concept of cognitive load in education. Through a spirited dialogue, Kohn critiques traditional educational methods that prioritize direct instruction and memorization over inquiry-based, progressive learning. This discussion not only challenges conventional wisdom but also offers a fresh perspective on how cognitive load theory has been misapplied to diminish the effectiveness of progressive education approaches. Listeners will gain insights into the importance of active learning and how it fosters deeper understanding and long-term retention over rote memorization. Kohn's arguments are supported by a review of educational research, highlighting the benefits of student-centered learning environments that encourage exploration, critical thinking, and meaningful engagement with material. The conversation also touches upon the broader implications of these educational strategies on fostering critical thinkers and the role of educators in facilitating a more nuanced and effective learning experience. By the end of the episode, the hosts and Kohn have not only debunked myths surrounding cognitive load theory but also championed the value of embracing complexity in the learning process. This episode is a must-listen for educators, parents, and anyone interested in the future of education, offering practical insights and encouraging a shift towards more engaging, thoughtful, and effective teaching methods.

In this enlightening episode, join Dr. Tim Slecker and Dr. Johnny Lupinacci as they engage with renowned progressive educator Alfie Kohn to dismantle the concept of cognitive load in education. Through a spirited dialogue, Kohn critiques traditional educational methods that prioritize direct instruction and memorization over inquiry-based, progressive learning. This discussion not only challenges conventional wisdom but also offers a fresh perspective on how cognitive load theory has been misapplied to diminish the effectiveness of progressive education approaches. Listeners will gain insights into the importance of active learning and how it fosters deeper understanding and long-term retention over rote memorization. Kohn's arguments are supported by a review of educational research, highlighting the benefits of student-centered learning environments that encourage exploration, critical thinking, and meaningful engagement with material. The conversation also touches upon the broader implications of these educational strategies on fostering critical thinkers and the role of educators in facilitating a more nuanced and effective learning experience. By the end of the episode, the hosts and Kohn have not only debunked myths surrounding cognitive load theory but also championed the value of embracing complexity in the learning process. This episode is a must-listen for educators, parents, and anyone interested in the future of education, offering practical insights and encouraging a shift towards more engaging, thoughtful, and effective teaching methods.

Are you okay the way you are... really? We discuss this topic in this weeks episode! Join us for some deep thoughts, another visit from our favorite founding father George Washington, and maybe even a dash of inspiring poetry! Check out Andy Andrews on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@AndyAndrewsAuthor Some Jordan Peterson Videos we liked on this topic: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-IQPiLs2Mmw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hyothMhuL78 Punished by Rewards by Alfie Kohn: https://a.co/d/766GWFz

We often praise others, create intricate rewards programs at work, compensation plans are loaded with performance goals....are all these things counter-productive?  Join us this week as Sarah Baca and Jay Hrcsko sit down with the author of the book Punished by Rewards, Alfie Kohn.  They discuss how "inside each carrot is a stick", how to properly motivate people, and how to NOT offer praise.  Enjoy! If you enjoyed this episode, please give us a review, a rating, or leave comments on iTunes, Stitcher or your podcasting platform of choice. It really helps others find us.  Much thanks to the artist  from  who provided us our outro music free-of-charge!  If you like what you heard,     to find more music you might enjoy! If you'd like to join the discussion and share your stories,  please jump into the fray at our  We at the Agile Uprising are committed to being totally free.  However, if you'd like to contribute and help us defray hosting and production costs we do have a .  Who knows, you might even get some surprises in the mail!    

What are your long term goals for your children?Are they to be:* Happy * Ethical* Caring* Compassionate* Independent* Self-reliant* Curious* Critical thinkersOr some variation on this theme?If that's the case, throw out the carrot and the stick because research shows that rewards and punishment don't work. Well what the heck am I going to do you might ask?This podcast episode (one of my favourites to revisit) with Alfie Kohn emphasises the importance of unconditional love in parenting, contrasting it with the common practice of using rewards and conditional affection to manipulate a child's behaviour. The more you use power on children to get them to do what you want, the less influence you'll probably have on their lives - Thomas GordonTraditional parenting advice often focuses on control and compliance rather than meeting children's true needs. However, research indicates that treating children with respect, understanding their perspectives, and empowering them to make decisions is a much better approach for raising happy, ethical, and independent critical thinking individuals.That's why Alfie advocates for loving our children unconditionally and considering our children's needs rather than demanding strict obedience.You can start by asking yourself the questions:* What does my child need right now?* How can I meet those needs?* What are my long-term goals for my child?* What are some ways to respond in situations rather than react?* How can I be an even better parent than my parents?Practice perspective taking Try to imagine how you would feel if somebody just said what you said to your child (or used the tone you just used) to you, then go one step further and imagine now how it feels from your child's perspective (because what might be ok with you, might impact them very differently because you are not the same person).Key takeaways:* Treat your kids respectfully* Do perspective taking* Ask a lot more questions than telling.Good luck!Big hugRichTo find out more about Alfie's work visit www.alfiekohn.org Get full access to The Dad Mindset at www.thedadmindset.com/subscribe

Chapter 1 What's Unconditional Parenting Book by Alfie Kohn"Unconditional Parenting: Moving from Rewards and Punishments to Love and Reason" is a book written by Alfie Kohn. In this book, Kohn challenges traditional parenting practices that rely on rewards and punishments as methods of control. Instead, he advocates for a parenting style that is based on unconditional love and respect for the child's autonomy and intrinsic motivation. Kohn encourages parents to focus on fostering their child's growth, emotional well-being, and independent thinking rather than manipulating their behavior through external rewards or punishments.Chapter 2 Is Unconditional Parenting Book A Good BookOpinions on books, like "Unconditional Parenting" by Alfie Kohn, can vary greatly. Some people find it to be an insightful and valuable resource that challenges traditional parenting techniques, while others may disagree with Kohn's ideas or think the book lacks practical advice. It ultimately depends on your personal parenting style, beliefs, and what you are looking to gain from the book. It's always a good idea to read reviews, research the author, and perhaps even read a sample chapter or synopsis before deciding if it's a good fit for you.Chapter 3 Unconditional Parenting Book by Alfie Kohn Summary"Unconditional Parenting: Moving from Rewards and Punishments to Love and Reason" is a parenting book written by Alfie Kohn. In this book, Kohn challenges traditional techniques of disciplining children through rewards and punishments and presents an alternative approach based on love, empathy, and reasoning.Kohn argues that conditional parenting, which relies on offering rewards for good behavior and punishments for bad behavior, is not only ineffective but also harms children's development and motivation. He believes that the use of rewards creates external motivation, where children behave well only to receive something in return, and punishments can lead to a fear-based compliance rather than internalizing values.According to Kohn, unconditional parenting focuses on meeting children's needs, respecting their autonomy, and fostering positive relationships. He encourages parents to move away from using praise and rewards, which can erode intrinsic motivation, and adopt a more empathetic approach, where they listen to their children's opinions and feelings.The book covers several key topics, including the meaning and impact of conditional parenting, the use of praise and rewards, the problems with punishment, and the importance of trust and communication in parent-child relationships. Kohn also provides practical strategies and examples for implementing unconditional parenting principles in everyday situations.The main idea of "Unconditional Parenting" is to view children as individuals with valid needs and emotions, rather than objects to be controlled or manipulated. It promotes a collaborative and respectful parenting style that aims to nurture children's intrinsic motivation, empathy, and problem-solving skills.Overall, "Unconditional Parenting" challenges conventional parenting methods and offers a thought-provoking perspective on how to raise emotionally healthy and independent children by focusing on love, understanding, and trust. Chapter 4 Unconditional Parenting Book AuthorAlfie Kohn is an American author and lecturer known for his work in the field of education, parenting, and human behavior. He was born on October 15, 1957, in Miami Beach, Florida.Kohn released the book "Unconditional Parenting: Moving from Rewards and Punishments to Love...

Chapter 1 What's Punished by Rewards Book by Alfie Kohn"Punished by Rewards: The Trouble with Gold Stars, Incentive Plans, A's, Praise, and Other Bribes" is a book written by Alfie Kohn. In this book, Kohn challenges the common practice of using rewards as motivation and explores the negative consequences that rewards can have on individuals, particularly in educational and workplace settings. He argues that rewards, whether they are tangible (such as gold stars and trophies) or intangible (such as praise and grades), often undermine intrinsic motivation, creativity, and long-term achievement. Kohn suggests alternative approaches to motivation and encourages readers to reevaluate their reliance on rewards.Chapter 2 Is Punished by Rewards Book A Good BookOpinions on whether a book is "good" can vary depending on personal preferences and beliefs. However, many readers and experts consider "Punished by Rewards" by Alfie Kohn to be a valuable and thought-provoking book. Kohn challenges the commonly held belief that rewards and punishments are effective methods for motivating people, both in educational and workplace environments. Instead, he presents research and data that suggest rewards can actually be detrimental to motivation, creativity, and overall well-being. Readers praise the book for its insightful analysis and ability to challenge traditional thinking. Kohn's argument prompts a reevaluation of the use of rewards and offers alternative approaches, such as fostering intrinsic motivation and emphasizing autonomy. However, it's important to note that the book may challenge some deeply ingrained beliefs about rewards and punishments. Therefore, whether it is considered a "good" book may depend on the reader's openness to alternative ideas and willingness to critically evaluate their own practices.Chapter 3 Punished by Rewards Book by Alfie Kohn SummaryThe book "Punished by Rewards" by Alfie Kohn explores the effects of reward-based systems on human behavior and motivation. Kohn argues that rewards, such as prizes, bonuses, or praise, can actually be counterproductive and lead to negative consequences in the long run.Kohn begins by challenging the common notion that rewards are effective in motivating individuals. He presents evidence from various studies that suggest rewards can actually undermine intrinsic motivation and decrease performance, creativity, and problem-solving abilities.The author also criticizes the use of rewards in the education system, arguing that they create a superficial interest in learning instead of fostering a genuine love for knowledge. He suggests that educators should focus on creating meaningful and engaging learning experiences that encourage autonomy and intrinsic motivation instead of relying on external rewards.Furthermore, Kohn addresses the negative impact of rewards in the workplace. He argues that monetary incentives can devalue work and decrease job satisfaction, ultimately leading to reduced productivity and employee burnout. He also examines the potential harmful effects of rewards in parenting, asserting that they can hinder the development of a child's self-regulation skills and moral reasoning.Throughout the book, Kohn offers alternative approaches to motivation and behavior, such as fostering a sense of autonomy, promoting collaboration, and providing opportunities for self-direction. He emphasizes the importance of intrinsic motivation, intrinsic satisfaction, and autonomy over external rewards."Punished by Rewards" challenges the traditional view of motivation and offers a thought-provoking critique of reward-based systems. Kohn encourages readers to reevaluate their reliance on rewards and consider alternative...

Get ready for an insightful journey into the realms of homeschooling, motivation, and grading in education. Listen in as I reassure those of you battling with homeschooling anxiety that you're not alone, and there's no need to fear that you're ruining your child's life.  Discover the purpose and impact of grades, as we reference the work of John Taylor Gatto, a seasoned public school teacher. In this episode, I discuss motivation drawing upon the research of celebrated thought leaders Dan Pink, Dr. Mihaly Csikszentmihzlyi, and Alfie Kohn, and their revelations about how intrinsic motivation trumps extrinsic rewards when it comes to effective learning.   Get tips on how to foster intrinsic motivation in your children and how to make them understand that grades are feedback, not permanent markers. Remember, our kids should find their purpose in the work they do, and understanding and nurturing their intrinsic motivation can go a long way in achieving this. So tune in, it's an episode packed with valuable insights! Books Referenced: Flow by Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi Weapons of Mass Instruction by John Taylor Gatto Drive by Daniel Pink Punished by Rewards by Alfie Kohn Cosby Episode Referenced:  The Cosby Show: Denise brings by her new boyfriend (Part1) *Please note that some of the links included in this article are Amazon affiliate links. CONNECT with US Join the Private Facebook Group  Connect and follow along with Janae's Journey on Instagram @janae.daniels Learn more about School to Homeschool

Welcome to Teach Me, Teacher – the premier podcast for educators! We're thrilled to be an award-winning show that's dedicated to bringing you insightful conversations with some of the brightest minds in the world of education. Our roster of distinguished guests includes luminaries such as Eric Weinstein, Kelly Gallagher, Donalyn Miller, Secretary Miguel Cardona, and Alfie Kohn. At Teach Me, Teacher, we're passionate about preserving the integrity of education. We believe that it should be shaped by educators and learners, not corporate interests. That's why we've launched our Patreon page – to empower our dedicated listeners and supporters to help sustain the show without resorting to advertising deals with companies that don't belong in the education space. By becoming a patron, you'll not only support our mission but also gain exclusive benefits. You'll enjoy early access to full episodes before anyone else, access to video interviews, and a host of exciting perks we have in store for you. Join us in our journey to celebrate and enhance the world of education. Together, we can keep the conversation focused on what truly matters – quality learning experiences for all. Thank you for being a part of the Teach Me, Teacher community! Click here to support the show and get early and exclusive access to our Season 8 opener with Jennifer Serravallo on Reading Strategies 2.0 and Educational Research. 

It does no disservice to the education battles of the current day to connect them to previous battles and conversations. The post Alfie Kohn, Diane Ravitch and Kevin Kumashiro on Education appeared first on FAIR.

"Punished by Rewards" by Alfie Kohn delves into the concept of intrinsic motivation, suggesting that rewards can actually be counter-productive, undermining our inherent drive to learn and explore. While primarily focused on humans, this compelling theory has implications for dog training. Traditionally, reward-based training has been a staple in teaching our canine companions. But should we be wary of over-relying on treats and praise? This question leads us back to the concept of intrinsic motivation. It's undeniable that dogs possess inherent drives, such as the drive to explore their environment or to play. These intrinsic drives can and should be harnessed in training. Shifting our focus to nurturing these natural instincts, rather than overwhelming our dogs with extrinsic rewards, could result in a more engaging and satisfying learning experience. This approach encourages dogs to participate not just for the promise of a treat but due to an intrinsic desire to engage, learn, and please. "Punished by Rewards" nudges us to reconsider the balance between extrinsic rewards and intrinsic motivation in dog training. By placing emphasis on the latter, we can tap into our dogs' natural instincts, leading to more effective and enriching training outcomes. Check out an older episode we did called, Asked to leave a dog club Further details looking for great dog trainers and supporters of the canine paradigm? Below is a vast array of people and business's who stand by us, donate to our running costs and do great things for the canine community. Glenn runs and has almost everything canine related at, Canine Evolution or Pet Resorts Australia Pat has a full range of coaching and dog training services at Operant Canine You can support our show and get extra content right here on our Patreon page. Everything goes into keeping the show running and we love all the wonderful people who are part of that community. If you're not sure how, just ask us. You can get our full range of our Merch at our Teespring store here You can help us by spreading the word amongst the canine community or even suggesting a special guest to interview. If you need to find out how to listen to our podcast, go here We have a YOUTUBE channel that you can subscribe to now If you enjoyed the podcast, please review us on Itunes, spotify and any other podcast directory Details on joining the IACP can be found here. If you're not in it you should be! Understand? Check out Dogs Playing for Life! A rescue process changing dogs lives across the USA For more details on how to help our friends at Peggy's Promise, you can find all the details on how to do that on their website. They are our rescue charity of choice. Support our supporters Narelle Cooke's raw feeding guide for dogs here. Narelle has her own podcast on all podcast directories called Natural Health for people and pets. Check it out in person. Looking for the best, human grade supplement range for your dogs? Check out Canine Ceuticals. You can also see her on Pooches at play with Lara Shannon SHOW SPONSOR Jason Firmin Einzweck Dog quip SHOW SPONSOR The motorcycle dog kennel by Rowdy Hound SHOW SPONSOR Professional dog training services DanKroft K9 SHOW SPONSOR Daycare and training from the heart dog training SHOW SPONSOR Dog training all styles in Adelaide Dog Club SA SHOW SPONSOR Our beloved friend and regular contributor, Birdy O'Sheedy can be found at birdyosheedy.com and you can see her baby puppy on her instagram HUGE thanks to all our contributing artists. Please support their works Jane StuartAvery KellerZoie Neidy

This week's episode is sponsored by: Carry your creativity with Erin Lane Bags! Whether you show your fiber fandom with the woolly wonder Sheepleverse, or dive into history with the Curiosities collection, our project bags, totes, and hook and needle organizers are at the ready to keep your hobby happy.       Have you ever had to frog because you forgot a step several rows back? Or lost your spot because you dropped your magnet board or lost track with your highlighter tape? Instead of wrestling with paper, use the knitCompanion app. It keeps you on track so you can knit more and frog less. knitCompanion works with ALL your patterns and is available for Apple, Android, and Kindle Fire Devices       Are you feeling dis-GRUNT-eled about your stash? Are you browsing Insta-HAM looking for knitting inspiration? Is color "kind of a PIG deal" in your life? Oink Pigments offers over one hundred forty PIG-ture perfect colorways to make you SQUEAL with delight. For a limited time only, bring home the bacon with code KNITMORE and get fifteen percent off in-stock yarns and fibers at oinkpigments dot com. Shop soon, because these pigs will FLY!     When was the last time you received a gift and were truly surprised? Surprised like someone had crawled inside your brain and pulled out the EXACT thing that would make you squeal with delight? That's what it's like to be a member of Twice Sheared Sheep's Surprise Box Club. And 250 new slots just opened for their 2023 club! Make this year a year of joy with 2 seasonal boxes delivered right to your hot little hands with exactly what you were wishing for; awesome knitting tools, luscious yarn, and surprise knitting gifts you didn't even know to ask for. Grab your slot before they sell out again! Visit Twiceshearedsheep.com     On the needles :(0:37) Gigi at Jasmin's house knitting: socks for Andrew  working on stripey socks  Jasmin has started a Dipole Beanie by Chin Matthews in Seismic Yarn's butter sock in the “Escape” colorway. “Compassion Collection where 20% of gross sales will be donated to an organization that supports a marginalized community.  As a Pride inspired colorway, it only makes sense that the donations go to The Trevor Project, an organization that provides crisis intervention and suicide prevention to LGBTQIA+ youth.” Gigi: working on the second meadowland baby blanket, working on the the fourth triangle . Very potato chippy.  Jasmin started her For Fox Sake pullover by Maxim Cyr in Lisa Souza SW “Squashblossom” and Neighborhood Fiber Co for the contrast colors. ⅓ through the yoke. Making notes on my pattern in KnitCompanion, since I can't comfortably do it in Ravelry.   Punished by Rewards, Alfie Kohn   Jasmin is nearly done with the body of the second Geometry by Minimi Knit Design in Mitchell's Creations yarn "Bayou" colorway Jasmin's “worm” project progress ; Tulip I-cord machine Jasmin started a Vertizontal Slouch hat in some aged self-striping yarn   Events:(21:43) Check out our Live at Stitches at Home!  Today is trans day of visibility  Give to the Trevor project Write to your reps about anti-trans legislation and discrimination  Give your trans friends cookies. Or cake.  Mend it March   Blankets     Mother Knows Best:(28:42) You don't have to finish something you don't like   When knitting attacks:(36:17) Gigi Meadowlands blanket & Jasmin's Verizontal Slouch  Knit more, know more :(42:27) A segment about Persian culture, history, or just generally cool stuff about Persian people. Protests are ongoing, 260 days. Tahdig sandwiches! And Sew on:(45:40) Gigi: Fabric Analysis 2   Need to do a research project, and Power Point presentation Jasmin: Patterns for wedding reception outfits Jasmin- Dr Seuss quilt for a rainbow baby 

Charlotte Mason advised that we shouldn't use external motivators  to make children learn. She said “[grades], prizes, places, rewards, punishments, praise, blame, or other inducements are not necessary to secure attention, which is voluntary, immediate and surprisingly perfect” without them. ( A Philosophy of Education, p. 7.) But is this true today? Are rewards really that bad? How will our kids behave and learn if we don't give them a little incentive to motivate them? And what can we do instead? To help answer these questions I've asked Alfie Kohn to chat with me today. Alfie Kohn is the author of fourteen books on education, parenting, and human behavior, including PUNISHED BY REWARDS (1993/2018), THE SCHOOLS OUR CHILDREN DESERVE (1999), UNCONDITIONAL PARENTING (2005), THE HOMEWORK MYTH (2006), and THE MYTH OF THE SPOILED CHILD (2014). He has written for most of the leading education periodicals and has appeared twice on “Oprah.” Time magazine described him as “perhaps the country's most outspoken critic of education's fixation on grades and test scores.” A strong supporter of public schooling, Kohn works with educators and parents, speaking regularly at national conferences. He lives (actually) in the Boston area and (virtually) at www.alfiekohn.org. --- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/jessica9025/support