Podcast appearances and mentions of steve folland

In this episode, Frankie Tortora and Steve Folland have a chat in response to a question from photographer Victoria Phipps. She says:“Hi Frankie and Steve!I'm a photographer specialising in analogue family photography (as in film, from the olden days when we were the kids!)… maternity, newborns, families etc.I've been in business for 15 years and have often struggled with the concept of “speculate to accumulate” when it comes to business growth. Or in the case of freelancers — personal growth!Do you subscribe to this theory? Obviously as freelancers we don't often have the big budgets that larger corporations have to play with, so decisions around investing in further professional education, coaching, fancier equipment etc. take a bit of thinking about. It's sometimes hard to know what will ‘move the needle' in your business.Do you have a set of rules you apply when making decisions like this or do you follow your gut?  Do you have any examples of times when the outcome of an investment in your own business growth has made it worthwhile? Or times when you've got it totally wrong and thrown your money down the drain?!Victoria”What would your advice be? Let us know your thoughts using #DIFTKpodcast on Twitter and Instagram, and join in the conversation via the DIFTK Community. •••Victoria Phipps' websiteFrankie Tortora's websiteSteve Folland's websiteSteve's podcast - Being FreelanceDoing It For The Kids websiteDIFTK InstagramSupport DIFTK on Ko-Fi

It's Day 3 of IAAPA Expo Europe, and this episode of Skip the Queue brings you insights from industry leaders. Hear from Andreas Andersen (Liseberg), Peter van der Schans (IAAPA EMEA), Laura Read (Marwell Zoo), Aaron Wilson (ProSlide), and Robbi Jones (Katapult) on resilience, creativity, and the future of attractions.Skip the Queue is brought to you by Rubber Cheese, a digital agency that builds remarkable systems and websites for attractions that helps them increase their visitor numbers. Your host is Paul Marden, with co host Andy Povey and roving reporter Claire Furnival.If you like what you hear, you can subscribe on iTunes, Spotify, and all the usual channels by searching Skip the Queue or visit our website SkiptheQueue.fm.If you've enjoyed this podcast, please leave us a five star review, it really helps others find us. And remember to follow us on LinkedIn. Show references:  https://www.liseberg.se/en/https://www.linkedin.com/in/andreas-veilstrup-andersen/Andreas Veilstrup Andersen is the CEO and President of the Liseberg Group, Sweden – operating one of Scandinavia's most visited amusement parks. Andreas has a legal and financial background and has been working in the amusement park industry since 2000.  First in several capacities at Tivoli Gardens in Copenhagen, Denmark, later as Vice President of European operations at IAAPA EMEA in Brussels, Belgium. Andreas was the 2018 Chairman of IAAPA. He currently holds board positions at Farup Sommerland and Alsik Hotel in Denmark, as well as Momentum Leisure and Leo's Lekland, Europe's largest chain of FEC's. Andreas is heading up IAAPA's sustainability initiatives, and occasionally blogs on https://reflections.liseberg.se/.Plus, live from the Day 3 of the IAAPA Expo Europe show floor, we catch up with:Aaron Wilson - Vice President, Business Development Europe & Latin America, Proslide Technologyhttps://www.proslide.com/https://www.linkedin.com/in/aaronlouiswilson/Robbie Jones - Insights Director, Katapaulthttps://www.katapult.co.uk/https://www.linkedin.com/in/mrrobbiejones/Peter van der Schans - Executive Director & Vice President, IAAPA EMEAhttps://iaapa.org/expos-and-events/expo-europehttps://www.linkedin.com/in/peter-van-der-schans-87715717/Laura Read - Chief Executive, Marwell Zoohttps://www.marwell.org.uk/https://www.linkedin.com/in/laura-read-she-her-98110726/ Transcriptions:  Paul Marden: Welcome to Skip the Queue, the podcast about the world's best attractions and the amazing people that work in them. I'm your host, Paul Marden, and together with my co-host, Andy Povey, and roving reporter Claire Furnival, we're here at day 3 of IAAPA Expo Europe. On today's show, Andy talks to Andreas Andersen, CEO and President of iseberg Group, about resilience. I meet Peter van der Schans from IAAPA EMEA, and we catch up with Laura Read from Marwell Zoo. First, let's go over to Andy.Andy Povey: So I'm joined now by Andreas Andersen, who's the chief exec of Liseberg, Scandinavia's most visited amusement park. Andreas, welcome to Barcelona. It's very good to see you here. Can you tell the listeners at home a little bit about Liseberg and what you do there?Andreas Andersen:  Sure. So I'm heading up one of the classic regional city-based parks in Northern Europe. So you have Liseberg, you have Tivoli in Copenhagen, you have Kornalund in Stockholm, and Linnanmaki in Helsinki. And we're part of this tradition of parks that have a very strong community base and a long history. Liseberg is 102 years old and three years old. And also parks that represent cultural heritage as well as reflect the cities we're located in. Lovely, lovely regional park in downtown Gothenburg. And if you haven't been, you should come visit.Andy Povey: Absolutely. I must admit, I haven't made it there myself yet. It's on the bucket list. So our theme for today's recording is about recovery and resilience. And recently, in your blog address, you wrote that you feel like for the past four years, you've been in constant crisis mode. Can you tell us a little bit more about that?Andreas Andersen: Well, I think a lot of executives or just people working in this industry can recognise that the last four or five years have been very turbulent, very, very, very volatile.Andreas Andersen: It all started with the pandemic in March 2020, we were at Lisa closed down for 17 months, so we didn't have any any business at all for for 17 months. Then we reopened in the middle of '21, very very hard— you know, with a lot of restrictions and an organisation that had not been you know operating anything for a long time and we also had to let go a lot of people. Then in '22, I think everybody experienced this giant rush, you know, that everybody wanted to get back into the park. So we couldn't really keep up with demand. And that was stressful in a different way. In '23, the market in the Nordics really suffered for some reason. It was a wit, summer and inflation, and interest rates.Andreas Andersen: And everything that went with, you could say, sort of the beginning of an economic downturn. And then, in 2024, our biggest investment, our biggest project expansion in the last 100 years, a large new indoor water park burned down. So it feels like these four or five years has really been this chain of crisis that we've had to get over and manage, basically.Andy Povey: Yeah, I mean, what we're hearing from people on the show floor is that the economic and political unrest that we have all over the Western world is creating some turbulence in the market. So talk to us a little bit more about the fire at Oceania. What happened?Andreas Andersen: We had been building the water park for almost three years, and we were six, seven weeks away from handover. It was some of the last works on the right installation that went wrong. It was a plastic welding that overheated, and these things happen, as you know.Andreas Andersen: Unfortunately, we lost a colleague in the fire and that was basically, you could say, that overshadowed, I would say, everything, especially in the first weeks. Andreas Andersen: That was devastating to all of us and obviously, especially his family. But soon after, we also had to make some decisions. You know, did we want to rebuild? How did we want to rebuild? At what pace? How would we finance? etc. etc. So you also very quickly move into the next phase of a crisis management and that is recovery. And we've been in that phase ever since. Andy Povey: Interesting. It's a devastating situation. I mean, your concern obviously has to be for the team and the people involved— not just those affected directly, but everybody on the floor who feels an emotional impact from this situation. So what tips would you give, as a leader, going through a situation like that, to anyone else listening who may be facing their own challenges?Andreas Andersen:  Well, I think I learned a lot during those weeks and months. And I think I learned that in a crisis, especially of this magnitude, everything becomes very naked. Everything becomes very raw. And you cannot really play a role as a leader. You have to be yourself. You have to be authentic. And it's okay to also show emotions and be caught up in this process of figuring out what to do with the project and the team and yourself when you meet challenges of this severity. Andreas Andersen:  So I would say be yourself, but also recognise that I always say that leadership in a crisis is a little bit like your biggest asset is the confidence that people have in you. And that confidence is something you build up over years. It's a little bit like a bank account that you can then draw on when the crisis hits. But you really have to make sure that you have something on that bank account. You can't borrow confidence. It's not up for loan. So you really, you know, crisis management, from a leadership perspective, actually starts a lot earlier than the crisis. It's about, you know, building a team that works well together, that trusts you and has confidence in you. And then, when the crisis hits, you know, you can draw on that trust, draw on that confidence. So I think that's two of the learnings that I had during this process.Andy Povey: I love the idea of the bank that you can draw on. We're making deposits in our bank every day, not just as a commercial leadership level, but a personal level as well. You need to have that resilience built in yourself. A lovely analogy. And I really love the idea of authenticity. So, if we move on now to talking a little bit more about what we do in an attraction, I think authenticity plays a really big part in that. So, how important is it for you to keep innovating at Liseberg?Andreas Andersen: It's super important because we are in a regional market. I mean, if you look at how our guests are composed, you know, we have 90% Swedish people and then 10%, maybe 12% in a good year from other, especially Nordic countries. But the majority are Swedish and about 60% of our total volume is actually from the local market. And if you want to attract the local market and you want to drive revisitation, Gothenburg is a large city, but it's not a huge city. You have to keep the product fresh. You have to reinvest, reinvent, and constantly adapt. And I think that's actually... part of the, you could say, the formula for these Nordic city-based parks that we've actually had to all reinvent, you know, throughout our history. I mean, Tivoli, that was founded in 1843, it was built by this crazy entrepreneur called Geo Carstensen.Andreas Andersen: And when Tivoli opened on the 15th of August, it was late, it was over budget, and it was not quite finished. And he got a question from a journalist, you know, asking him, you know, when will Tivoli be finished? And his response was, 'Never.' Tivoli will never be finished. And I think, you know, it's almost 200 years ago that he said this, but I think it encompasses sort of the real DNA of our industry that we have to constantly evolve with our guests and reinvent ourselves. And I think, again, that the city, the Nordic city-based parks have really been quite good at that.Andy Povey: Obviously, I mean, Liseberg with 100 years, Tivoli with almost 200 years. There's something good there. You're doing something right. So more recently, you've taken a position with, I'm going to pronounce this awfully, Leo's Lekland. Compare and contrast Liseberg to Europe's largest chain of family entertainment centres?Andreas Andersen:  I mean, there are a lot of similarities and also a lot of differences. I think what is interesting for me, you know, working with Leos is that it's, in many ways, the model is the same. I mean, you pay an entrance fee, you spend a few hours with your family, you may eat a lunch or buy an ice cream or a plush animal. So in many ways, it's the same. But I think, when we're talking about these attractions that are really designed for shorter visits, there is a convenience perspective to them that it's slightly different than, you know, visiting an amusement park or a theme park for a full day. I remember once I had a conversation with one of our competitors in this market, not FECs as such, but, you know, these shorter visits, you know, two, three-hour visit attractions, very often midway attractionsAndreas Andersen: And he said, 'What we sell is actually not.' necessarily an experience, it is two hours spent and I think that's a little bit of a different perspective on an attraction that you actually also go to, Leo's Lekland, to have your kids, you know, be really really tired when they get home, you know, in today's world, where everything is a lot of a lot of stuff is digital and and the kids sit there with their with the tablets and their phones and or their game consoles or they're online with their friends. I think play has a huge and important role to play in the development of motoric and social skills for kids. I think physical play will be something we're going to discuss a lot in the decades to come, because I think we lost a couple of generations the last 20 years. And I think that's a super dangerous thing. So getting back to your question, a lot of similarities, but there are also some differences and I've learned a lot by working with them.Andy Povey: Fantastic. The talk about play really resonates. We lost a year, maybe 18 months through COVID. I have 11-year-old twin girls. I love the idea that me taking them to our local FEC on a Saturday morning so I could recover from a hangover while they went and played was a really positive, good parent thing to do. So thank you for that. We're at the show. What are you looking forward to seeing when you get out on the show floor, when we eventually let you go out on the show floor?Andreas Andersen:  Oh! I very rarely have a plan. I like to just stroll around. Actually, I see it a little bit like visiting an amusement park. You shop for experiences and you see what happens. I think one of the great things about these expos is the fact that, and that's probably what I look most forward to, is that you meet your industry colleagues.Andreas Andersen:  A company like ours, Liseberg, we do not exist; we do not operate within a chain structure. We do not have a corporate mother that knows a lot about what we do. We do not have other parks that we can benchmark with. So these shows is also a little bit a way for us to get out of the bubble and meet other people that work with the same thing as we do. So it's actually not as much the expo floor or the events or the educational program as it is meeting the people. I enjoy.Andy Povey: Andreas, it's been great talking to you. Thank you very much for your time and have a fantastic show.Andreas Andersen:  And I wish you the very same. Thank you.Paul Marden: Now let's head over to the show floor. So we are here on the ProSlide stand, and I'm here with Aaron. Aaron, introduce yourself. Tell us a little bit about ProSlide.Aaron  Wilson: Hi, nice to meet you. Thanks for coming in. I'm Aaron Wilson, Senior Vice President, Business Development, EMEA, with ProSlide. I've been with ProSlide for nine years. We're focused really on the design and innovation of rides. That's where we really form the nucleus of who ProSlide is.Paul Marden: Okay, so what are you launching here at this year's IAAPA?Aaron  Wilson:  Yeah, so let's walk over here to our model table. Where we have a large model of our newest feature, which is the Hive. We actually opened up two rides this year, one at Chimelong in China, the most attended water park in the world. Paul Marden: Wow. Aaron  Wilson:  And that's with a five-person family raft, everyone seated facing each other.Paul Marden: That's amazing. So you're going through this on a five-person ring kind of thing?Aaron  Wilson:  Exactly, a five-person tube. So it's a tight radius helix curve. So as you enter, you're entering into a completely open, basically cathedral space. But as you're dropping and turning very quickly, you're staying really stuck along the outside of the wall, feeling those centrifugal forces. And you have a 360-degree global view. So you're able to look forward, backwards, upwards, down. See everywhere where you came from and where you're headed.Paul Marden: It's amazing, isn't it? Because you've got transparent sides on it. So you can see outside as well.Aaron  Wilson:  Absolutely. And there's a ton of theming potential here. In the middle is a support structure. And so we're working on theming there in the middle, if we can. Special effects around the outside. In this case, it's transparent. Exactly.Paul Marden: You've got some amazing models on the table here. This is one of those rides that you can't really bring to IAAPA and experience in real life because we'd all have to be in our swimmers.Aaron  Wilson:  Unfortunately, yes.Paul Marden: But some amazing, amazing models. What's innovative about this? What's this bringing to the market, which is unusual?Aaron  Wilson:  So you have that 360-degree helix turn. We've completely opened it up. So normally in a turn, you can only see a few meters in front of you. In this case, it's a feature that's completely open as you're making that turn. And so you can see everywhere, right? Up and down, forwards, backwards. And that's really part of the differentiation. But obviously the biggest sensation is actually that experience you feel as you have those centrifugal forces around the outside. With a five-person boat, you're looking at about 800 pounds, and you're whipping around the outside, gaining tons of speed throughout. So it's really exciting. The additional interesting thing about this element is we're also doing a two-person tube and a small compact footprint.Aaron  Wilson:  So it's very adaptable for indoor parks or even outdoor parks that don't have a ton of space. That compact footprint gives a lot of flexibility in the design.Paul Marden: So you've got this in China at the moment, you say?Aaron  Wilson:  Yep, and one in the US. And there are a lot more to come in the next one to two years already programmed and open. So we're really excited about this for the water parks.Paul Marden: That's amazing. So we've been asking everybody to get their crystal ball out and tell us trends for 2026. Where do you think the market is going? What do you think that we can expect to see this time next year at IAAPA? Aaron  Wilson:  Water coasters. Water coasters are the big thing. Paul Marden: What on earth is a water coaster? Aaron  Wilson:  Yeah, well, let's head over here to another model table. We have a couple of examples here. So I would say, like in the last couple of years, specifically speaking about Europe, we've seen an amazing response to our water coaster technology using water propulsion. We call it the rocket blast.Paul Marden: Right.Aaron  Wilson:  And so what you have is a series of injectors placed along the uphill sections that actually push the boat uphill. That's amazing. And so with that technology, we're able to do a number of things. And this actually, this ride opened about a year and a half ago at Land of Legends in Turkey. This is, you know, one of the biggest things that will stand out to you here is, as you're looking around all the models, what's very common with a water park is you have—gravity-fed rides, meaning you climb a tower and use gravity to go down. Paul Marden:  This is very flat and long. Aaron  Wilson:  Exactly. This is built essentially on grade. There's no tower here. So, I mean, the first thing is accessibility. So now, as you know, there's no steps. You know, water parks are historically very difficult to meet accessibility. Paul Marden: Yeah. Do you know, I've never thought of that before. But of course, you need to climb the stairs to be able to get to the top of the tower.Aaron  Wilson:  So this case, this is called Turtle Coaster. And this is at Land of Legends. Our guests can walk or, you know, walk or wheel.Paul Marden: Yep.Aaron  Wilson:  As they want up this ramp. This is about four meters off grade. We have a little bit of a drop here. So this is a closed-circuit coaster, right? Meaning the guests are finishing and ending in the same location. Also something different from a water ride. Normally you're going up a tower and finishing in a pool. Here you're finishing and starting at the same location, much like a mechanical dry-growing coaster.Paul Marden: And this, just for listeners' benefit, this has got eight or nine turns in there. It's really, you know. It's going to be a normal coaster-type ride, isn't it?Aaron  Wilson:  This is a 420-meter-long coaster. You're looking at about a minute-and-a-half water ride, which is crazy. Most water rides are about 30 seconds, you know? So it's a really long experience. You have eight uphill last sections, along with what else is unique with our technology is we're able to incorporate these flat last sections. So much like a mechanical coaster has that launch element to it. We're able to do that with water propulsion. So right off the stop, you have this completely flat launch blast. Up, you're getting the elevation. You go around for 420 meters, a series of flying saucer features, uphill sections. Coming back into a water channel.Aaron  Wilson:  And landing in the landing pool, it picks you up on a moving station conveyor. So this conveyor is actually moving at a very slow pace. Guests are cutting off and getting back on.Paul Marden: This is not a lazy river, is it? That you're just sat around for a little while. This is going to hair around.Aaron  Wilson:  Absolutely not. And then here at Siam Park is another coaster here. We opened up in '23. Doolin. So you had two lanes.Paul Marden: Oh, wow.Aaron  Wilson:  And you're racing side by side throughout the experience.Paul Marden: That is amazing. Well, Aaron, look— it's been wonderful to meet you. Find out more about what you're doing here. Looks super, super exciting. I want to get my swimmers on and go and try some, but maybe not whilst we're here in Barcelona, but maybe one time soon.Andy Povey: So we're on the show floor again and I'm with Robbie Jones from Katapult. Robbie, please tell the listeners at home a little bit about Katapult, what you do with them.Robbie  Jones: So we design themed attractions, experiences and destinations. So that can be anything from theme parks all the way through to museums. And our— I guess our core competency is design stage, so pre-concept designs. We get involved quite a lot in theme parks that are very early stages. And my role in that is quite unique within the team of creatives and designers, in that I look towards the insights. So sometimes I work with feasibility partners to kind of pull together the economic requirements for a theme park or an attraction to exist. But more often than not, it's about the guest journey, the guest behaviour, how can we make the guest experience as best as possible by understanding information research that we might have already but also doing some primary research as well to make sure we're creating like that amazing moment for every person that walks through the door.Andy Povey: Fantastic. That sounds really, really impressive. Looking back over 2025, what are your key takeaways from this year so far?Robbie  Jones: Goodness, me. I think I'll speak with a lot of what the industry would say, which is it's been a little bit sticky in places in 2025. There's certainly been more maybes than yeses or nos in terms of projects. But I think we're starting to see things beginning to move. Someone's put some oil in the engine somewhere, which is great. And there's some really exciting projects coming up. Obviously, as a UK-based company, seeing the likes of Universal, Poodie Foo, setting up shop. It's going to be really interesting to see how that impacts not just the UK, but the European market as well.Andy Povey: I couldn't agree more. I really, really look forward to seeing that anticipated improvement in quality of experience that we'll get across the UK. So looking forward to '26 now, what are you anticipating as being the exciting things we're talking about in 12 months' time?Robbie  Jones: Gosh, I mean, I think there will be an element of a quiet time, I think, especially with the new build theme parks, whether that's in the UK or, of course, in the Middle East. I think there'll be an element of quiet that we need to get used to in terms of waiting to see what the next big thing is or the next IP that's going to be in those rides. But I certainly see a lot more positive vibes coming out of the industry. I think we'll see more exciting local experiences, maybe not just big global ones. And yeah, just on the horizon, maybe plenty more opportunity and positivity.Paul Marden: It has been my first IAAPA Expo, and I've had a whale of a time. And I am joined here by Peter van der Schans, the VP and Exec Director of IAAPA EMEA. Peter. Tell me a little bit about what the show has been like for you because I've had an amazing time.Peter van der Schans: Well, so did I. The funny thing is we've always worked so hard on these expos. It takes a hell of a lot of time and it all comes back in this one week. And once you exit that plane or train or however you arrive, you start in a bus and then it's over before you know it.Peter van der Schans: And the week is done and you fall in this big black hole. That's where we're going now. So it's been a wonderful week and it's great to see all our members and every industry leader that is visiting us. We're a small team at IAAPA. We're not a huge organisation, but we have our members supporting us. It's a team effort from both IAAPA and our members, basically. And it's only pride.Paul Marden: One of the most important parts of the show, I think, is the educational side of what you do. There's been a big educational program. Are there any big themes that you've spotted coming out of that education strand?Peter van der Schans: So the education program actually is built with our members and by our members. So, of course, we guide it and shape it. But it's actually done by our members. So it's our members saying, 'Hey, this is where I have issues with. This is the trends I see. This is where I think this is going, which makes it always accurate because we have that industry knowledge by our members.' So in that sense, what we saw this year, there's a lot of focus on AI, obviously, the hot topic nowadays. Paul Marden: It's not a single interview I do where somebody hasn't dropped AI into it. So it's a hot topic.Peter van der Schans: It's a hot topic. And I'm very curious also to see where it's going because right now, if you see execution, the focus is much on back office. For example, Parks Reunidos for example, shared on stage, that they can now predict their next, the next day in visitor numbers with accuracy of 93% which is perfect. Things like that. But I'm curious exactly to see how it's going to evolve in the future to the front end. So what is that visitor going to see in the future? Whenever I go to a theme park, for example, will I be recognised by my name? And if I ride a ride, will the animatronic know my name, for example? Things like that. I think there's limitless possibilities.Peter van der Schans: And we're just at the verge of the beginning. And it's also so, so, so excited about that education program that we share what we know and we work together to get to that point to make it better. Paul Marden: Yeah, absolutely. The collaboration in this sector is just amazing. And IAAPA is just the living proof of that. So many smiling faces. You know that there were competitors together on stands just chatting and enjoying. It's a really enriching experience seeing everybody work together.Peter van der Schans: It is, it is. And the funny thing is I've worked in this industry since I was 16. I started as a ride operator. I didn't know any better than when I had an issue when I became supervisor and manager that I could call the park at the other end of the country and ask, like, 'Hey, how are you dealing with this?' And they helped me. And then I worked at the cinema industry and suddenly I realised that that is not that common in all industries, to say it lightly. It was much more competitive and I didn't want to share anything and really opened my eyes in a way that I realised, like, 'hey, this is special'. And also made me realise that IAAPA plays a big part in that as well, as an organisation to bring all those people together, to provide that platform to work together.Paul Marden: Yes, the facilitators of the community, aren't you? I'm going to ask you a slightly controversial question here. Outside of show hours, what has been your favourite party or event? And you can name drop any one of them. It's absolutely fine. Nobody will be upset with you.Peter van der Schans: I must say the ballpark reception, obviously for the British people. Always good beers. The Tuesday events with the opening ceremony, where we really kick off the week. They made me dance again. I don't recommend watching that back, but that's always just a fun, fun morning where we really kick off the week with a big energy, with a nice connection to the host city as well. Peter van der Schans: It's always fun to work on that and to execute that, but also the evening event, the opening reception where we gather. Well, this year we had 1,400 industry professionals coming together and mixing, mingling in Tibidabo. Without rain, thankfully. Paul Marden: Well, yes, this is the thing. So I was watching the skies thinking this could go really badly wrong. The BBC weather forecasts were not looking good. Peter van der Schans: There's this tradition in Barcelona that you bring eggs to nuns and they make sure you'll have good weather. We did that. We brought three dozens.Paul Marden: Took a lot of eggs. There was a lot of eggs broken in the making of this party. But you did very well. We're at the end. And everybody gets to heave a big sigh of relief that the show's done. It's in the can. But there's also a touch of sadness and fondness looking forward to what comes next. So next year, what have you got coming up first? I understand there's something in the Middle East.Peter van der Schans: Yeah, absolutely. We actually last year at this expo in Amsterdam, we announced the launch of our newest expo, IAAPA Expo Middle East, which is actually the first time in IAAPA's history that we built a new expo from scratch.Peter van der Schans: Never done that before, our members and and people in the industry ask us year after year like, 'When is IAAPA coming to the Middle East?' Of course, there's a huge amount of investments going on in that region. It's crazy. And in that sense, we we simply listen to our members and decide that this is the time we need to go. And we're excited to get closer and closer to the actual launch of the event in March in 2026 in Abu Dhabi.Paul Marden: So March 2026, Abu Dhabi is our next event. But there is another event coming next year. IAAPA is coming to London, which I'm very pleased about. Tell me, is the planning all starting on Monday? Are you already a long way through planning? Plans you can share with me about what's coming up in London?Peter van der Schans: We will have an exciting program for sure, but we're not there yet with with the actual education programme. That takes a little bit more of time, but we do have the show Florencial already and that's looking to be another record-breaking show. What I think also remarkable is that we will have one third more education than we will have in our previous show. So we always had two conference rooms— we'll have three in London. So we'll have actually quite a big increase in our educational offerings as well.Paul Marden: That's amazing. I cannot wait. This has been my first IAAPA, but it won't be my last IAAPA. I think I can confidently say that. So grateful for you and the team inviting us along as Skip the Queue to be part of what you've been doing. We've had an amazing time and I cannot wait to see you again in London.Peter van der Schans: Thank you very much and happy to have you here.Paul Marden: We are here at the end of day three of IAAPA Expo Europe. We've had a wonderful time. Andy Povey: I'm broken. Paul Marden: Oh man, I'm going home a broken man. The voice is barely holding on. I am here with Laura Read from Marwell Zoo. Welcome to Skip the Queue, Laura.Laura Read: Hello. Thank you for having me.Paul Marden: Laura, what's it been like for you? What's the benefit of coming to IAAPA for you?Laura Read: So this is my first IAAPA. For me, this was all around looking at what's new for visitor attractions, what's innovative, what's coming up, and what could we potentially bring to the visitors of Marwell Zoo that might be exciting and might drive more visitors to come to us, really, ultimately. It's all about, for us, diversification, keeping the zoo product at the core of our offer, obviously, but seeing how we can augment that with other things.Paul Marden: So what can we expect? Is it going to be a 4D immersive ride experience? Water slides? Or are you looking for something that enriches the in-real-life experience for you? And it's a bit more low-tech.Laura Read: Oh, I'd love to put in like a water park. Do you know what? That's something like the coolest stalls. Like going around going, 'oh, I'd love to design a water park. That's so fun. No, no'. So for us, it's really about looking at sort of smaller, lower-level, new attractions that we can bring in, you know, we're primarily a family audience. So it's what do kids want to play on? You know, I've seen some really cool little ride-on Jeeps that we think would work really, really well because we also want to stay true to our ethos. You know, Marwell's built its reputation on our conservation work, our hands-on conservation work in the field, you know, reversing species decline and also around sustainability. So sustainability is really core to our offer.Laura Read: This is not about turning Marwell into a theme park or a water park or anything like that, because the animals are still very much the stars of the show, as is the conservation work. But it's about how we can best utilise our space to provide that density of guest experience. And I think seeing all the things here today. That's where the inspiration comes in.Paul Marden: I think it's really interesting, isn't it? Because when you take your kids to the zoo, you need some space. You need a palate cleanser between the animals, don't you? To give the kids time to burn off some energy, to do something a little bit different. And then they come back re-energised and you're hiding the vegetables. You're teaching them about the conservation efforts and all the really important stuff that you do, but hidden around lots of things that keep them happy and engaged in what's going on.Laura Read: Exactly. The problem with zoos is the animals— they don't care that they're the exhibits.Laura Read: And, you know, we are a primarily outdoor attraction. Extremes of heat, rainy days, animals disappear. We know that. We know that the perennial problem is: I didn't see any animals because we have really, really high animal welfare levels and standards. And if those animals want to go off show and take themselves off to bed or away from the public view, they all can and should and do. So we need something that can keep kids particularly engaged and entertained, hopefully getting across a bit of education and messaging as well at the same time. That's a massive tick in the box. But, you know, it fills in the gaps when those animals just aren't playing ball.Paul Marden: Yeah, absolutely. Andy, what's been the highlight of day three for you, mate?Andy Povey: So I think it's actually talking to Laura.Paul Marden: Such a charmer.Andy Povey: Let me finish. Let me justify. It's really picking up the fact that this isn't just a theme park show. Yeah. There are elements for everything you could possibly do any day out any attraction, even in any shopping centre or any place you go to where there's large crowds of people— so it's all of that kind of stuff. I think is it's refreshing to see it through someone else's eyes, through our conversations.Laura Read: I was going to say, 'I have to say,'  Before I was chief exec at Marwell, I ran a really large, shopping centre like retail, leisure, events, and destination. And I'm amazed that this is not on more commercial real estate people's radar. I look to see if there's anyone from a previous company here, then there isn't on the attendees list. And I'm like, 'Wow,' this is all the stuff that we should have been thinking about five years ago, ten years ago, when we were realising that diversification from a retail point of view is so important because of online shopping. So that's really interesting what you say. It's not just the theme parks.Andy Povey: No, absolutely not. It's all about the day out. And ultimately, that's all. We're all here to do is we work in a fun industry, and fun doesn't have to just be an amusement park.Paul Marden: Yeah, I found it really interesting. Seeing the things that I've seen has stretched my definition of what a visitor attraction actually is, because it is more than just a theme park. As you wander around and you see the different exhibitors, I was expecting to see... The ride designers and some of the really cool tech that I've seen. But there was other stuff that I've seen that I just hadn't expected.Andy Povey: No, I mean, I was chatting yesterday to a guy who supplies park benches and litter bins.  You see them everywhere. Paul Marden: I say the park bench thing. I remember when I was working at the Botanic Gardens in Wales as it was being built, the importance of the park bench and sitting on them. And they were beautiful park benches, but they were also super comfy. The importance of a park bench, like a good toilet, can't be underestimated.Laura Read: You can always tell someone who works in visitor attraction operations, when they go to any other visitor attraction, they take pictures of the bins. I think that is an absolute giveaway. When I go places with my family and the kids are there, taking pictures of animals or taking pictures of each other or whatever they're doing. And I'm there. Oh, I'm just gonna take a picture of that sign. You know, like.Andy Povey: I have another confession to make. I had a conversation with my wife who took the kids to an attraction a couple of weeks ago. And I was most distressed that she hadn't taken a picture of the till for me.Paul Marden: Oh, you would know what the part number and everything about that till, wouldn't you? Such a retail geek.Paul Marden: Laura, thank you so much for joining us on Skip the Queue. It has been delightful. I feel that there might be a full episode coming on, talking about the zoo, if you'll have me.Laura Read: Yes, absolutely. Bring it on. Paul Marden: Oh, wonderful. Thank you so much.Andy Povey: Andy, take me to the airport.Paul Marden: If you enjoyed this episode, please like and comment in your podcast app. It really helps more people to find us. Show notes and links to all our guests this week are available on our website, skipthequeue.fm. It's been a massive team effort to take Skip the Queue to IAAPA. A huge thank you to Emily Burrows and Sami Entwistle, Steve Folland and Wenalyn Dionaldo, Claire Furnival and Andy Povey, as well as Erica Washington-Perry and her team at IAAPA Global Communications.Paul Marden: Next week, we're wrapping up our IAAPA theme, talking to Choni Fernandez, Chief Sustainability Officer at PortAventura Entertainment, and Jakob Wahl, President and CEO of IAAPA. See you then.  The 2025 Visitor Attraction Website Survey is now LIVE! Dive into groundbreaking benchmarks for the industryGain a better understanding of how to achieve the highest conversion ratesExplore the "why" behind visitor attraction site performanceLearn the impact of website optimisation and visitor engagement on conversion ratesUncover key steps to enhance user experience for greater conversionsTake the Rubber Cheese Visitor Attraction Website Survey Report

In this episode of Skip the Queue, host Paul Marden speaks with Andy Hadden, founder of the Lost Shore Surf Resort in Scotland. Andy shares the remarkable journey from his sporting background and early property career to discovering wave technology in the Basque Country, which inspired him to bring inland surfing to Scotland. Despite starting with no money and no land, Andy raised over £100 million and built one of the world's most advanced inland surf destinations. He explains how Lost Shore Surf Resort combines world-class waves with a strong community focus, sustainability initiatives, and partnerships with schools and universities to deliver real social and economic impact.Skip the Queue is brought to you by Rubber Cheese, a digital agency that builds remarkable systems and websites for attractions that helps them increase their visitor numbers. Your host is Paul Marden, with co host Andy Povey and roving reporter Claire Furnival.If you like what you hear, you can subscribe on iTunes, Spotify, and all the usual channels by searching Skip the Queue or visit our website SkiptheQueue.fm.If you've enjoyed this podcast, please leave us a five star review, it really helps others find us. And remember to follow us on LinkedIn. Show references:  Lost Shore Surf Resort website: https://www.lostshore.com/Andy Hadded on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/andy-hadden-94989a67/Andy Hadden is the founder of Lost Shore Surf Resort, Scotland's first inland surf destination and home to Europe's largest wave pool. Opened in November 2024 near Edinburgh, Lost Shore is the country's largest sports infrastructure project since the Commonwealth Games and now attracts a truly international audience of surfers, families, and brands. With a background in insolvency and investment surveying, Andy led the venture from concept to completion - securing major institutional backing and building a multidisciplinary team to deliver a world-class destination. Long before 'ESG' was a buzzword, he embedded environmental and social value into Lost Shore's DNA, helping set new benchmarks for responsible development. As home to the Surf Lab with Edinburgh Napier University, Lost Shore also serves as a global hub for performance, product R&D, and surf therapy. Live from the show floor, we'll also be joined by:Bakit Baydaliev, CEO/ Cofounder of DOF Roboticshttps://dofrobotics.com/https://www.linkedin.com/in/bakitbaydaliev/Hamza Saber, Expert Engineer at TÜV SÜDhttps://www.tuvsud.com/enhttps://www.linkedin.com/in/hamzasaber/David Jungmann, Director of Business Development at Accessohttps://www.accesso.com/https://www.linkedin.com/in/davidjungmann/Kristof Van Hove, Tomorrowlandhttps://www.tomorrowland.com/home/https://www.linkedin.com/in/kristof-van-hove-2ba3b953/ Transcriptions:  Paul Marden: Welcome to Skip the Queue, the podcast about attractions and the amazing people who work with them. I'm your host, Paul Marden, and with my co-host Andy Povey and roving reporter Claire Furnival, we're coming to you from IAAPA Expo Europe. This is the first of three episodes from the show floor that will come to you over the next three days. Firstly, I'm joined today by Andy Hadden, the founder of Lost Shores Surf Resort.Paul Marden: Andy, tell us a little bit about your journey. You've opened this amazing attraction up there in Scotland where I was on holiday a couple of weeks ago. Tell us a little bit about that attraction. Why this and why in Scotland?Andy Hadden: Well, I grew up locally and I came from more of a sporting family than so much of a business family. My father was the international rugby coach for a while and I played a lot of sport. Paul Marden: Oh, really? Andy Hadden: Yeah, yeah. So we always had this thing about there wasn't enough facilities here in Scotland because Scotland is a place which doesn't necessarily have all the resources and the access to funds and everything else like that. But one thing we noted with, you know, if you created facilities, whether they be good tennis facilities, good 4G football pitches, whatever it was. It allowed the environment around it to prosper, the communities around it to prosper. And, of course, I was a charter surveyor by trade, so I worked in insolvency and then in investment. So I sold two sites to that market. Andy Hadden: But I always surfed. I always surfed. So whilst I was down in Birmingham in England, when I actually got an email in 2012 talking about some, you know, some surfy thing that might have been happening in Bristol, I called the head of destination consulting up and I said, 'this sounds like nonsense, to be honest', because I surf and you can't really be talking about real surfing waves here. It's got to be something, you know, different. He said, 'No, no, there's these guys in the Basque country.' So I took a flight over there and that day changed everything for me. Paul Marden: So what was it that you saw? Andy Hadden: I went to see what was back then a secret test facility in the mountains of the Basque Country. It was very cloak and dagger. I had to follow the guide and give me the email address. I found this all very exciting. When I went and actually saw this facility, I realised that for the decade before that, there'd been all these amazing minds, engineers and surfers working on what they believed could be, you know, a big future of not just the inland surfing movement that's now burgeoning into a multi-billion dollar global movement, but it could really affect surfing. And if it was going to affect surfing as a sport, and it's now an Olympic sport because of these facilities, they wanted to make sure that it was a very accessible piece of kit. So surfing, it could affect surfing if ran by the right people in the right ways and really communicate that stoke of the sport to the masses.Paul Marden: So what is it that you've built in Edinburgh then? Tell me a little bit about it.Andy Hadden: So we've delivered a wave garden cove, which is a 52-module wave garden, which is about the size of three football pitches, and it can run hundreds of waves an hour, touch of a button and it can run in skiing parlance anything from green runs right through to sort of black powder runs. And the beauty of it is you can have people that are the better surfers out the back and just like at the beach at the front you've got their kids and learning how to surf on the white water. So we're finding it to be a really amazing experience— not just for surfers who are obviously flocking to us, but already here in Scotland, eight months in, tens of thousands of new surfers are all coming back and just going, 'Wow, we've got this thing on our doorstep.' This is blowing our minds, you know. Paul Marden: Wowzers, wowzers. Look, I'm guessing that the infrastructure and the technology that you need to be able to create this kind of inland wave centre is key to what you're doing. That you've got to access some funds, I guess, to be able to do this. This is not a cheap thing for you to be able to put together, surely.Andy Hadden: Yeah, correct. I mean, you know, I have questioned my own sanity at times. But when I started 10 years ago, I had no money and no land. But I did have some property expertise and I wanted to do it in Edinburgh, a close-up place that I cared about. So we have excellent networks. For a few years, you know. Whilst we've ended up raising over  £100 million in structured finance from a standing start, it took me a couple of years just to raise £40,000. And then I used that to do some quite bizarre things like flying everyone that I cared about, you know, whether they were from the surf community or... Community stakeholders, politicians, and everyone over to the test facility to see themselves— what I could see to sort of—well, is it? Am I just getting carried away here? Or is there something in this? And then, on top of that, you know, we sponsored the world's first PhD in surf therapy with that first $5,000. So now we have a doctor in surf therapy who now takes me around the world to California and all these places. How does business actually really genuinely care about, you know, giving back? And I'm like, yeah, because we said we're going to do this once.Andy Hadden: We got to do it right. And it took us a decade. But yeah, we raised the money and we're very happy to be open.Paul Marden: So I mentioned a minute ago, I was holidaying in Scotland. I bookended Edinburgh— both sides of the holiday. And then I was in Sky for a few days as well. There's something about Edinburgh at the moment. There is a real energy. Coming up as a tourist, there was way too much for me to be able to do. It seems to be a real destination at the moment for people.Andy Hadden: Yeah, well, I think, coming from the background I came from, if I knew I was going to deliver a surfing park in the edge of Edinburgh, I then wanted to do it in the least risky way possible. So to do that, I felt land ownership was key and three business plans was also very key. Edinburgh's in need of accommodation regardless, and Edinburgh's also in need of good places, a good F&B for friends and family just to go and hang out on the weekends. And then, of course, you have the surfing, and we've got a big wellness aspect too. We also sit next to Europe's largest indoor climbing arena. And we're obviously very well connected in the centre of Scotland to both Edinburgh and Scotland. So, so many things to do. So, yeah, I mean, the Scottish tourism landscape has always been good, but it's just getting better and better as we see this as a future-proof marketplace up here. You know, we're not building ships anymore.Andy Hadden: Well, in fact, we got a contract the other week to build one, so maybe that's wrong. But the point is, we see it as a very future-proof place because the Americans are flagging, the Europeans are flagging, and they just want to feel like they're part of something very Scottish. And that's what we've tried to do in our own special way.Paul Marden: And when you think of coming to Scotland, of course, you think about surfing, don't you? Andy Hadden: Yes, who knows. Paul Marden: Exactly, exactly. Look, you had some recent high-profile support from Jason Connery, the son of the late James Bond actor Sean Connery. How did that come about?Andy Hadden: Well, I think we've got, there's a real Scottish spirit of entrepreneurialism that goes back, you know, probably right the way through to the Enlightenment where, you know, I'm sure. I'm sure a lot of you know how many inventions came from Scotland. And this is, you know, televisions, telephones, penicillin. I mean, just the list goes on.Andy Hadden: Of course, you know, that was a long, long time ago, but we still feel a lot of pride in that. But there seems to be a lot of people who've had success in our country, like someone like Sir Sean Connery. These guys are still very proud of that. So when they see something— very entrepreneurial— where we're using a lot of local businesses to create something bigger than the sum of its parts. And to do it truly— not just to be a profitable private business, which is what it is, but to give back 18 million into local economy every year, to work with schools in terms of getting into curriculums. We've got Surf Lab. We work with universities, charities, and so on. They really want to support this stuff. So we have over 50 shareholders, and they've each invested probably for slightly different reasons. They all have to know that their money is a good bet, but I think they all want to feel like they're part of creating a recipe. For a surf resort, which we believe there'll be hundreds of around the world in the next few years. And we can create that recipe here in Scotland. That's hopefully another example of Scottish innovation and entrepreneurialism.Paul Marden: So you've got the test bed that happened in the Basque Country. You've got Scotland now. Are there surf resorts like this elsewhere in the world?Andy Hadden: Yeah, there are eight other open in the world. There's actually, there's various technologies. So there's about 25 different surf parks open at the moment. But there's... doesn't under construction. Pharrell Williams has just opened one in Virginia Beach a few weeks ago there in America. And what the equity, I think, is looking at quite rightly, the big equity, you know, the type that go right, if this really is a, you know, kind of top golfing steroids in that property developers can look at them as.Andy Hadden: You know, excellent ways to get through their more standardised property place, residential, office, industrial. Usually they have to do that in a kind of loss-leading way. But if you look at this as a leisure attraction, which councils and cities actually want because of the benefits, and it makes you money, and it increases the prices of your residential around it. I think developers are starting to realise there's a sweet spot there. So the equity, the big equity, I think, is about to drop in this market over the next couple of years. And it's just waiting for the data set to enable them to do that.Paul Marden: Wow. I guess there's an environmental impact to the work that you do, trying to create any big... a big project like this is going to have some sort of environmental impact. You've put in place an environmental sustainability strategy before it was mainstream as it is now. Tell us some of the things that you've put in place to try to address that environmental impact of what you're doing.Andy Hadden: Well, we're in a disused quarry. So it was a brownfield site. So already just by building on it and creating an immunity, we're also adding to the biodiversity of that site. And we're obviously there's no escaping the fact that we're a user of energy. There's just no escaping that. So the reality is we've got as much sustainable energy use as we can from air source heat pumps to solar. And we're looking at a solar project. So it becomes completely self-sustaining. But we also, the electricity we do access from the grid is through a green tariff. But you'll see a lot of the resorts around the world, this is going to become the sort of, the main play is to become sort of sustainable in that sense. Where we really fly is with the S and ESG. And like you say, the reason we were the world's first institutionally backed wave park, of course, we like to think it was purely down to our financials. But the reality is, they started saying, 'Wow, you're as authentic an ESG company as we've come across.'Andy Hadden: And it's the same with our mission-based national bank. So, because we didn't really know what that meant, we just knew it was the right thing to do. So we fit squarely into that ESG category, which I know is a tick box for a lot of funds, let's face it. There's a lot of them that really want to do that. There's a lot of investors out there that want to do it. But let's understand our place in the system, which is we're really market leading in that area. And I think that's very attractive for a lot of funds out there. But the S in ESG is where we really fly with all the work we're doing socially around the site.Paul Marden: So talk to me a little bit about that. How are you addressing that kind of the social responsibility piece?Andy Hadden: Well, two examples would be we're not just looking at schools to come here to surf. That's an obvious one. They'll go to any attraction to surf if you could go to Laser Quest, go up to visit the castle, do whatever. But we reverse engineered it. We got schools coordinated to go around the headmasters and the schools and say, 'Well, Look, you're all teaching STEM, science, technology, engineering, maths, for 9 to 13-year-olds. And you're all looking for outdoor learning now, which is definitely a big part of the future in education in general. Can you allow us to create some modules here? So we've got six modules that actually fit into that STEM strategy. For instance, last week, there was a school in learning physics, but they were using surf wax on a surfboard friction.Paul Marden: Amazing.Andy Hadden: So these kids so it works for schools and headmasters which is very important and for parents and it obviously works for the kids and they love it and the reason we do that and we give that it's all at discounted low times and everything is because it's a numbers game they come back at the weekend and so on so that's example one and another would be we've created a surf lab with Napier University, a higher education. So we sponsored the world's first doctor. It got a PhD in surf therapy, but then the university was like, 'hold on a minute, you know, this is good marketing for us as well'.Andy Hadden: This surf lab, which has the infrastructure to host great competitions, but also PhD students can come down and learn engineering. They can learn sustainable energy. So we've got more PhD students working there. And this higher university collaboration has not only led to Alder kids coming down but other universities in the area are now what can we do with lost shore now that's cool and fun so we're working with the other universities in town too so that's a couple of examples alongside the standard, employing local people and actually having the economics of putting money into the local economy.Paul Marden: It's interesting, isn't it? Because... So for many people, ESG, and especially the social responsibility piece, feels a little bit worthy. It feels an altruistic move for the organisation to go and do those things. But you've hit on the quid pro quo what do you get back for doing all of this stuff well you're bringing in these kids you're enriching their learning, you're helping them to learn valuable skills but you're also giving them a taster of what life is like at the the resort and seeing the benefit of the return visits that flow from that is crazy.Andy Hadden: You know, I like to think we've fought as hard as anyone to ingrain this stuff in your DNA because we're year one. And of course, we have our cash flow difficulties like everyone does. You know, you don't know how to... run the place for the first three months or that's what it feels like even though you've done all this preparation and so on and so forth but at no point does anyone turn around and go let's get rid of the schools program let's get rid of the university partnership and that's why i think it's very important to build it into your dna because it doesn't have to be this zero-sum game that people attribute you know or we're giving here so that means we have to take over here it's like there's cute ways to do everything you can do the right thing but also drive traffic for your business and it's very good right. It's good reputation, because the people that stay there, when they see that we're doing this stuff, they feel like they're part of it, and then they want to book again. So I believe it doesn't have to be a zero-sum game, but it is a different way of creating a business— that's for sure.Paul Marden: For sure. So there's going to be a listener out there, I'm sure, with a crazy idea like you had a few years ago. What advice would you give for somebody just starting out thinking of opening a business in the leisure and attraction sector?Andy Hadden: I would just try your best to make it as simple as possible. I think it was Yves Chouinard, the founder of Patagonia, who said, 'One of the hardest things in life is to make it simple. It's so easy to make it complex.' And when you're dealing with a business plan, it's very exciting, right? Well, what if we get into this market? What if we do this? And splitting it all into those components. I think arm yourself with very good people around you. They don't even have to be part of the company. If you've been a good person in your life, I'm sure you've got friends who you can tap into. Everyone knows an architect. Everyone knows an accountant. Everyone knows a lawyer. You're a friend of a friend. Andy Hadden: And I think just overload yourself with as much information to get you to the point where you can be assertive with your own decisions. Because at the end of the day, it's going to come down to you making your own decisions. And if you've got a very clear path of what success and failure looks like, understanding that it ain't going to look like your business plan. As long as it's got the broad shapes of where you want to go, it can get you out of bed every day to try and make things happen. So, yeah, just go for it. Really, that's it.Paul Marden: See where it takes you. So look, in the world of themed entertainment, we talk a lot about IP and storytelling and creating magical experiences. Are any of these concepts relevant to a destination like yours?Andy Hadden: Yeah, well, you know, technically, from an IP perspective, you know, we're using the WaveGround Cove technology. You know, we've purchased that. So from a strictly business perspective, you know, we have access to their sort of IP in that sense and we deliver that. But I think for us, the IP is the destination. It's so unique, it's so big that it becomes defendable at scale. So it does sound like a bit of an all-in poker hand. But it would be more risky to go half in because these things are very hard to build. But when they are built, they're also very hard to compete with. So as long as your customer experience is good enough. You're going to maintain a kind of exclusivity in your locality for long into the future. So, yeah, there's obviously IP issues in terms of technologies. But for us, it was all about creating a destination with three business plans that's greater than the sum of its parts. And if we can do that in our location, then it's very hard to compete against, I would say.Paul Marden: Andy, it sounds like such an exciting journey that you've been on. And one year in, that journey has still got a long way to play out, doesn't it? You must be on quite the rollercoaster. Well, surfing quite a wave at the moment, if I don't mix my metaphors so badly.Andy Hadden: Yeah, we're just entering maybe the penultimate phase of the sort of 20-year plan. You know, we've gone through our early stages, our fundraising, our construction. We've gone through the very hard sort of like getting the team together and opening year one. And we're just starting to go, 'OK, we understand we've got data now'. We understand how to run this place now. So I think we now want to push through to stabilise the next two or three years. And then hopefully we've got a lot of irons in the fire globally as well. Hopefully we can go to the next phase, but we'll see what happens. Worst case scenario, I just surf a bit more and try and enjoy my lot.Paul Marden: Well, Andy, it's been lovely talking to you. I've been really interested to hear what you've been up to. This was only a short snippet of an interview. I reckon there's some more stories for you to tell once you're into year two. So I'd love for you to come back and we'll do a full-on interview once you've got year two under your belt. How's that sound to you?Andy Hadden: Absolutely, Paul, and thanks very much for the platform.Paul Marden: Next up, let's hear from some of the exhibitors on the floor. Bakit.Paul Marden: Introduce yourself for me, please, and tell me a little bit about where you're from.Bakit Baydaliev: We have two companies located in Turkey, Istanbul, and Los Angeles, USA. We develop attractions, equipment, but not just equipment— also software, AI, and content, games, and movies. Paul Marden: Oh, wow. So you're here at IAPA. This is my very first morning of my very first IAAPA. So it's all very overwhelming for me. Tell me, what is it that you're launching at IAAPA today?Bakit Baydaliev: Today we're launching our bestseller, Hurricane. It's a coaster simulator. In addition to that, we're also launching a special immersive tunnel, Mars Odyssey. We're sending people to Mars, we're sending people to space, and the story, of course, may change. After you install the attractions, you always can create different kinds of content for this attraction. It's completely immersive and what is very unique for this attraction is edutainment. Theme parks, science centres, space centres, and museums all benefit from it. It's not just to show and entertain, but also educate and provide a lot of useful information for people. Paul Marden: So what would you say is unique about this? Bakit Baydaliev: There are several factors. First of all, it's equipment. We have a very special software that amazingly synchronizes with the content and it doesn't create motion sickness at all. Paul Marden: Oh, really? Bakit Baydaliev: This is very important. Independently on the speeds, which is... We have very high speeds in our simulators. In addition to that, we have special effects, unusual effects, which feel like cold, heat, sounds.Paul Marden: So it is truly 4D, isn't it?Bakit Baydaliev: Completely. In addition to that, it's interactive content. It's not just the content which you can sit and... watch and entertain yourself and get a lot of useful information, but also you can interact. You can play games, you can shoot, you can interact. And of course, the most important thing which makes this attraction innovative is the educational aspect.Paul Marden: I find that really interesting that you could see this ride at a theme park, but similarly you can see it as an educational exhibit at a science centre or space centre. I think that's very interesting.Bakit Baydaliev: Very, very. Especially, you know, the standard experience for space centres, science centres, and especially museums, it's just walking around, touch some stuff. Some you may not even touch it. It's exponents which you can watch, you can read, it's very nice. But it's even better when you let people live it in real with a nice simulation atmosphere environment, like immersive tunnel.Paul Marden: Absolutely. Bekit, thank you so much for joining us on Skip the Queue, and I look forward to enjoying one of the rides.Bakit Baydaliev: Please ride, and you will be amazed.Hamza Saber: My name is Hamza. I work for TÜV SUD Germany. Our main job is to make sure attractions are safe, parks are safe. We do everything from design review to initial examination of rides, to yearly checks and making sure that we push the standards and the norm to the next level and cover everything that comes in new in the industry as well to make sure this industry stays safe and enjoyable for people. Paul Marden: It's so important though, isn't it? At an event like this, you don't have a sexy stand with lots of really cool rides to experience, but what you do is super important.Hamza Saber: Yes, I guess it's not one of the big colourful booths, but it's at the heart of this industry. It's in the background. If you look at the program for the education, there is a lot of safety talks. There is a lot of small groups talking about safety, trying to harmonise norms as well. Because if you look at the world right now, we have the EN standards. We have the American standards and we're working right now to try to bring them closer together so it's as easy and safe and clear for all manufacturers and operators to understand what they need to do to make sure that their guests are safe at the end of the day.Paul Marden: So Hamza, there's some really cool tech that you've got on the stand that's something new that you've brought to the stand today. So tell us a little bit about that.Hamza Saber: So as you can see, we have one of the drones right here and the video behind you. So we're trying to include new technologies to make it easier, faster, and more reliable to do checks on big structures like this or those massive buildings that you usually see. You can get really, really close with the new technologies, the drones with the 4K cameras, you can get very, very precise. We're also working on AI to train it to start getting the first round of inspections done using AI. And just our expert to focus on the most important and critical aspects. So we're just going to make it faster, more reliable.Paul Marden: So I guess if you've got the drone, that means you don't have to walk the entire ride and expect it by eye?Hamza Saber: No, we still have to climb. So what we do is more preventive using the drones. So the drones, especially with the operators, they can start using them. And if they notice something that does not fit there, we can go and look at it. But the actual yearly inspections that are accepted by the governments, you still need to climb, you still need to check it yourself. So the technology is not right there yet, but hopefully we're going to get there. Paul Marden: We're a long way away from the robots coming and taking the safety engineer's job then. Hamza Saber: Yes, exactly. And they don't think they're going to come take our jobs anytime soon. Using technology hands-in-hands with our expertise, that's the future.Paul Marden: It must be so exciting for you guys because you have to get involved in all of these projects. So you get to see the absolute tippy top trends as they're coming towards you.Hamza Saber: Yeah, for sure. Like we're always three years before the public knowledge. So it's exciting to be behind the scene a little bit and knowing what's going on. We're seeing some really fun and creative ideas using AI to push the attractions industry to the next level. So I'm excited to see any new rides that will be published or announced at some point this week.Paul Marden: Very cool. Look, Hamza, it's been lovely to meet you. Thanks for coming on Skip the Queue.Hamza Saber: Yeah, thank you so much.Kristof Van Hove: My name is Kristof. I live in Belgium. I'm working for the Tomorrowland group already now for three years, especially on the leisure part.Paul Marden: Tell listeners a little bit about Tomorrowland because many of our listeners are attraction owners and operators. They may not be familiar with Tomorrowland.Kristof Van Hove: Yeah, so Tomorrowland is already 20 years, I think, one of the number one festivals in the world. Actually, already for the last years, always the number one in the world. And what makes us special is that we are not just a festival, but we are a community. We create. special occasions for people and it starts from the moment that they buy their tickets till the festival we make a special feeling that people like and I think we create a world and each year we work very hard on new team that goes very deep so not only making a festival but we go very deep in our branding not only with our main stage but we also make a book about it we make gadgets about it so it's a completely.Paul Marden:  Wow. Help listeners to understand what it is that you're doing new here at the moment. You're blending that festival experience, aren't you, into attractions.Kristof Van Hove: Yeah, that's right. So because we are already 20 years on the market building IP, the more and more we really are able to create a complete experience, not only the IP as a brand, but also all the things around it. We have our own furniture. We have our own plates. We create actually all elements that are needed to build a leisure industry project. And that makes it magnificent. I think we are capable now, with everything that we do in-house, to set up and to facilitate water park and attraction park projects completely. Paul Marden: So, have you got any attractions that are open at the moment? Kristof Van Hove: Well, we have the Ride to Happiness, of course, the coaster that is built in Plopsaland three years ago. That is already now for five years the number one steel coaster in Europe and the fifth steel coaster in the world. So this is a project we are very proud of. Besides that, we have already a lot of immersive experiences. And we are constructing now a secret project that will be announced in the beginning of next year somewhere in Europe.Paul Marden: Give us a little sneak peek what that might look like.Kristof Van Hove: It's not that far from here. Okay, okay, excellent. So it's more an outdoor day project that we are constructing. That for sure will be something unique. Excellent.Paul Marden: So look, you're already planning into 2026. Help listeners to understand what the future might look like. What trends are you seeing in the sector for next year?Kristof Van Hove: Well, I think more and more the people expect that they get completely a deep dive into branding. I don't think that people still want to go to non-IP branded areas. They want to have the complete package from the moment that they enter. They want to be immersed. With everything around it, and they want a kind of a surrounding, and they want to have the feeling that they are a bit out of their normal life, and a deep dive in a new environment. And I think this is something that we try to accomplish. Paul Marden: Wow.David Jungmann: David Jungman, I'm the Director of Business Development here at Accesso, based in Germany. I'm super excited to be here at IAPA in Barcelona. We're exhibiting our whole range of solutions from ticketing to point of sale to virtual queuing to mobile apps. And one of the features we're calling out today is our Accesso Pay 3.0 checkout flow, which streamlines donations, ticket insurance, relevant payment types by region on a single simple one-click checkout page.Paul Marden: What impact does that have on customers when they're presented with that simple one-click checkout?David Jungmann: Well, as you guys know, conversion rate is super important. The number of clicks in an e-commerce environment is super important. And because we're at IAAPA Europe, we've got guests here from all over Europe. Different regions require different payment types. And it's important to not overload a checkout page with like eight different types for, let's say, German guests, Dutch guests, Belgium guests, is to be able to only offer what's relevant and to keep it short and sweet. And then rolling in additional features like donations, ticket insurance and gift cards, stuff like that.Paul Marden: Amazing. So get your crystal ball out and think about what the world in 2026 is going to be like.David Jungmann: I think this year was a little bit soft in terms of performance for the parks, certainly in Europe, what we've seen. I think what that will mean is that maybe some will consider, you know, really big capex investments. But what that also means is they will get creative. So I envision a world where, instead of buying new protocols for 20 million, maybe some operators will start thinking about how can we make more out of what we've got with less, right? How can we be really creative? And I think there's a lot to uncover next year for us to see.Paul Marden:  Sweating their assets maybe to be able to extend what they do without that big CapEx project.David Jungmann:  Yes, how can we keep innovating? How can we keep our experience fresh? Without just buying something very expensive straight away. And I think that's what we see.Paul Marden: What is going to be innovating for Xesso and the market that you serve?David Jungmann: Well, for us, it's really about that streamlined, consistent guest experience, but also tying into things like immersive experiences, right, where you could maybe change the overlay of an attraction and feed in personalised information that you have for your visitors and collect it during you know the booking flow when they enter the venue and feeding that into the actual experience i think that's something i'm excited about.Paul Marden: I think that there is a missed opportunity by so many attractions. There's so much data that we build and we collect the data, but oftentimes we don't bring it together into a central place and then figure out the ways in which we want to use it. There's so much more you can do with that rich data, isn't there?David Jungmann: 100% exactly. And I don't just mean from a marketing perspective. I mean from an actual experience perspective. Let's say you ride through Dark Ride and all of a sudden your name pops up or your favorite character pops up and waves hello to you. That's the type of stuff you want to do, not just market the hell out of it.Paul Marden: Absolutely. Look, David, it's been so good to meet you. Thank you ever so much. And yeah, thank you for joining Skip the Queue. David Jungmann: Thanks, Paul. Have a great day at the show. Paul Marden: Isn't it great? I mean, we have got such an amazing job, haven't we? To be able to come to a place like this and be able to call this work.David Jungmann: Absolute privilege. Yes, absolutely.Paul Marden: Now, before we wrap up, Andy and I wanted to have a little chat about what we've seen today and what we've enjoyed. Why don't we sit down? You have clearly returned to your tribe. Is there a person in this place that doesn't actually know you?Andy Povey: There's loads. I've been doing the same thing for 30 years. Paul Marden: Yeah, this ain't your first radio, is it? Andy Povey: I'm big and I'm loud, so I'd stand out in a crowd. I mean, there are all fantastic things that I should put on my CV. But this is really where I feel at home. This industry continues to blow me away. We're here, we're talking to competitors, we're talking to potential customers, we're talking to previous customers, we're talking to people that we've worked with, and it's just all so friendly and so personally connected. I love it.Paul Marden: It has been awesome. I've really enjoyed it. Although I'm beginning to get into the Barry White territory of my voice because it's quite loud on the show floor, isn't it? Andy Povey: It is. It's actually quieter than previous shows, so I don't know why, and I don't know whether... Maybe I'm just getting old and my hearing's not working quite so well, but... You used to walk out of the show and you could almost feel your ears relax as they just stopped hearing and being assaulted, I suppose, by machines pinging and blowing.Paul Marden: It really is an assault on the senses, but in the very best way possible. Andy Povey: Absolutely, absolutely. I feel like a child. You're walking around the show, you're going, 'Wow, Wow, Wow, Wow, Wow, Wow, Wow.' Paul Marden: So what has been your highlight? Andy Povey: Do you know, I don't think I could give you one. It really is all of the conversations, the connections, the people you didn't know that you hadn't spoken to for two years.Paul Marden: So for me, my highlight, there was a ride that I went on, Doff Robotics.Andy Povey: I've seen that, man.Paul Marden: So it was amazing. I thought I was going to be feeling really, really sick and that I wouldn't enjoy it, but it was amazing. So I had Emily with the camera in front of me. And within 10 seconds, I forgot that I was being recorded and that she was there. I was completely immersed in it. And I came off it afterwards feeling no motion sickness at all and just having had a real good giggle all the way through. I was grinning like, you know, the Cheshire Cat. Andy Povey: A grinning thing. Paul Marden: Yeah. So, tomorrow, what are you looking forward to?Andy Povey:  It's more of the same. It really is. There's going to be some sore heads after tonight's party at Tribodabo. We're all hoping the rain holds off long enough for it to be a great experience. But more of the same.Paul Marden: Well, let's meet back again tomorrow, shall we? Andy Povey: Completely. Paul Marden: Let's make a date.Paul Marden: Thanks for listening to today's episode from IAAPA Expo Europe. As always, if you've loved today's episode, like it and comment in your podcast app. If you didn't like it, let us know at hello@skipthequeue.fm. Show notes and links can also be found on our website, skipthequeue.fm. Thanks to our amazing team, Emily Burrows and Sami Entwistle from Plaster Creative Communications, Steve Folland from Folland Co., and our amazing podcast producer, Wenalyn Dionaldo. Come back again tomorrow for more show news. The 2025 Visitor Attraction Website Survey is now LIVE! Dive into groundbreaking benchmarks for the industryGain a better understanding of how to achieve the highest conversion ratesExplore the "why" behind visitor attraction site performanceLearn the impact of website optimisation and visitor engagement on conversion ratesUncover key steps to enhance user experience for greater conversionsTake the Rubber Cheese Visitor Attraction Website Survey Report

In this episode, Frankie Tortora and Steve Folland have a chat in response to a question from creative mentor & workshop tutor, Sophie Roberts. She says:“Hi Frankie & Steve!I'm Sophie — a creative mentor and workshop tutor at West Plum Studio. I help people spend more time crafting.My question is around how to know where to draw the line between what you'll give away for free vs what you'll charge for in your business? In the crafting world there is so much free information available online. I've learnt lots over the years from generous free content that others have shared. I'm more than happy to share my own content for free but there does need to come a point where you start to charge otherwise it's just not a business! I'd love to hear your thoughts on this.Thanks!”What would your advice be? Let us know your thoughts using #DIFTKpodcast on Twitter and Instagram, and join in the conversation via the DIFTK Community. •••Sophie Roberts' websiteFrankie Tortora's websiteSteve Folland's websiteSteve's podcast - Being FreelanceDoing It For The Kids websiteDIFTK InstagramSupport DIFTK on Ko-Fi

We've well and truly kicked off season 7 in style as we welcome our first guest onto the show - IAAPA Board Chairman, Massimiliano Freddi. In this episode, Paul sits down with Massimiliano Freddi, the first Italian to ever hold the role of IAAPA Chairman in the association's 107-year history. From his early dream of running a theme park to founding Wonderwood and shaping Italy's unique attractions landscape, Massi shares how passion, storytelling, and a people-first mindset continue to drive his vision for the industry. Skip The Queue is back for Season 7 and we're announcing some big changes! Get ready for new hosts, a fresh new look, weekly content and find out where you can catch us live at events to be part of the action.Skip the Queue is brought to you by Rubber Cheese, a digital agency that builds remarkable systems and websites for attractions that helps them increase their visitor numbers. Your host is Paul Marden.If you like what you hear, you can subscribe on iTunes, Spotify, and all the usual channels by searching Skip the Queue or visit our website SkiptheQueue.fm.If you've enjoyed this podcast, please leave us a five star review, it really helps others find us. And remember to follow us on LinkedIn, or Bluesky for your chance to win the books that have been mentioned in this podcast.Competition ends on 24th September 2025. The winner will be contacted via LinkedIn or Bluesky. Show references:  https://iaapa.org/https://www.linkedin.com/in/freddi/Massimiliano Freddi  a leading figure in the amusement and entertainment industry, has been appointed president of the steering committee of IAAPA (International Association of Amusement Parks and Attractions, the leading international association for attractions and theme parks) for 2025. This is the first time since the foundation of the World Association of Attractions (1918) that this position has been entrusted to an Italian.The appointment underscores his extensive experience and significant contribution to the global industry. Freddi brings a wealth of experience gained at some of the industry's most prominent companies. His career began in marketing and press office for the Italian market at Disneyland Paris. He subsequently joined Leolandia.A visionary entrepreneur, in 2018, Massimiliano Freddi founded Wonderwood, an adventure and amusement park for all ages, of which he is currently CEO, in his hometown of Trarego Viggiona, in the Verbano-Cusio-Ossola region on Lake Maggiore. This growing business has redeveloped several local facilities and provided employment to several young residents of the small towns in the area. His passion for the sector also extends to academia. Since 2016, he has been a member of the coaching staff of Seth Godin's Altmba and is a professor of marketing and experience design at IULM University in Milan. At the same university, where Italy's first course in theme park and attraction management was introduced, he teaches subjects such as consumer experience, marketing, and soft skills as an adjunct professor. Freddi was also one of the original founders of Parksmania, the first newspaper dedicated to amusement parks.Freddi will continue to bring his innovative vision and deep industry knowledge to the global association, helping shape the future of attractions internationally. Regarding Italy, he commented that he sees great potential and wants to help realise it. Transcriptions:  Paul Marden: Welcome to Skip the Queue, the podcast about the world's best visitor attractions and the people that work in them. I'm Paul Marden, along with my co-hosts Andy Povey and Sinead Kimberley, I spend my days working with ambitious attractions like theme parks, museums, galleries, and science centres to help them to attract more guests. Paul Marden: Today on Skip the Queue, I'm joined by someone who has been shaping the attractions industry in truly remarkable ways. Massimiliano Freddi is the first Italian ever to hold the role of chairman in IAAPA's 107-year history. A milestone that not only celebrates his career, but also shines a light on Italy's growing influence in the global attractions landscape. Massimiliano has worn many hats across his journey, from fulfilling his childhood dream of becoming a Theme Park Managing Director at just 28, where he grew guest numbers from 300,000 to over 800,000, to founding his own destinations like Wonderwood on Lake Maggiore and Wonderwood Spina Verde, overlooking Lake Como. Along the way, he's pioneered inclusive and eco-conscious practices, championing the power of storytelling and shown how attractions can thrive by creating meaningful experiences for every guest.Paul Marden: Beyond his leadership roles, Massimiliano is also a Professor of Marketing and Experience Design at IULM University in Milan, where he's passionate about nurturing the next generation of talent in our sector. Often described as both a dreamer and a doer, he brings together vision and practicality in a way that continues to inspire operators around the world.Paul Marden: Massimilliano, welcome to the show. It really is a pleasure to have you with us. We always start Skip the Queue and the kickoff of season seven, no less, is going to be no different. We always start with an icebreaker question. And I'm thinking back to, we're just back off of our summer holidays, aren't we? For your perfect holiday, would it start with planes, trains or driving.Massimiliano Freddi: Oh, that's a beautiful question. By the way, congratulations because you've pronounced Massimiliano in a very correct way. So that's unusual. I have a complicated name. I know, I know.Massimiliano Freddi: Hey, I would say train. Train is really, really part of the way that I love to travel with. And unfortunately, too often it happens by car, which I like a little bit less. I get dizzy, you know, and stuff. Train is my ultimate, ultimate way to travel.Paul Marden: I did a sleeper train to Scotland a couple of years ago, and it was amazing. I absolutely loved it. And what's brilliant is there's more of those sleeper trains hitting Europe, aren't there now? So there really is very few excuses for us not to be holidaying with the start with some elegant sleeper train. My only disappointment was that there was no murder on the train, so I couldn't have an Agatha Christie style novel themed around my train  journey, but uh, you know.Massimiliano Freddi: I mean, I mean, it could have been the Hogwarts Express, but apparently, it doesn't run every day, so.Paul Marden: That would be pretty cool as well. I've just come back from Edinburgh, actually, and we saw, you know, the viaduct where the train goes to Hogwarts, and completely unplanned, there was a steam train that went over the bridge whilst we were there. It was amazing.Massimiliano Freddi: Happy go lucky.Paul Marden: Yeah. So enough of my holidays. Let's kick off talking about you and IAAPA. What can international markets learn from attractions in Italy? Tell us a little bit about the attractions landscape over there in Italy at the moment.Massimiliano Freddi: Yes. So let's say that the attraction landscape is very similar, somehow, to how the restaurants or the retail landscape has always been, which means a lot of mom and pop stores. And I think that what people who travel to Italy love is to find something that is one of a kind that you can find only in Italy. I have a deep respect for Starbucks, but I'm always... questioning myself, you know, when somebody comes to Italy, do they really want to find Starbucks? Is this a real thing? So when it comes to parks and attractions, Italy has not faced a big concentration in players like it has happened in other countries. Of course, some big players are there. Parques Reunidos owns Mirabilandia, which is the second most important Italian park. And the most important Italian park is Gardaland, owned by Merlin Entertainment. Then we have a few other groups. Owning and operating some of the facilities, but let's say that, out of 250 parks between—or, you said, attractions— that's very correct now, if we talk about attractions, now the number is endless, because where is the border?Paul Marden: What is an attraction? Yeah, that's a big philosophical question.Massimiliano Freddi: Okay, okay, so let's say that, once upon a time, we used to count parks. So when we talk about parks, we have roughly 250 parks in Italy, and most of them are tiny, tiny, tiny, and they are independently owned. That's my case. I own and operate two parks right now, and I'm about to open, a third location that will be an indoor one this November. And so, yes, I think that what what others can learn from Italy i think is to keep this respect for your roots and to make sure that you don't make every attraction look like another one, but you kind of keep it, you know, different.Massimiliano Freddi: And so it's a matter of the mix of how people can have fun and get entertained. But it's really also about retail and about food and about shows and festivals and you name it, you know. So there are these places that we see on Instagram and immediately we say, oh, that's, I mean, when I see a picture of the Empire State Building or of the Tower Bridge. I know immediately where it belongs to. And so I think that, with attractions, we need to think in the future always about this. Guests coming to visit us, they want to have the ultimate experience and they want to have something that's different from anything they've done before. So this is the responsibility we have.Paul Marden: And a big one it is. Let's talk a little bit about the experience economy. And especially when we think about, you know, beyond the parks, there's this... massive ecosystem around the outside of different ways that people can enjoy themselves. What does that experience economy mean to you, especially in Italy?Massimiliano Freddi: The experience economy, first of all, it truly matters to me, the book. Because in 1999, it was once upon a time, it was really difficult to find literature and scientific literature on the leisure industry. And so I think that at that time, we thought that everybody could take inspiration from the attractions industry. And it has happened because right now. Yes, definitely. You know, food is experience and travel is experience and lodging is experience. You name it, you name it. You know, even there is also a funeral house in Italy, which has become very famous because they are really based on the experience they will give, you know, not to the people who passed away, unfortunately, you know, but the people remain. So I think that it's very hard now to find an industry that doesn't think, that we are in the experience economy and that everything should be experienced and experiential. And so I think that when I go back to my example, I think that we as attractions, we need to be even more wise in how we choose to present ourselves and what we cater to our guests.Massimiliano Freddi: Because of course, we need to raise the bar. So right now, we know that some access... And some services to our attractions have become better with technology. But still, we are, you know, long lines sometimes. And we feel we are paying too much for what we are getting back.Massimiliano Freddi: I would say that in the end, experience economy starts with people and ends with people. And so we need to be people-centric. And only like this, we can be truly experiential. I don't think that an experience is about technology.  It's always, always about people.Paul Marden: Absolutely. I wonder as well, I'm always struck by this industry, how close we are, how we collaborate with one another. And really, the competition aren't the other parks or attractions. The competition is getting people out and doing something. There are so many things at home that could keep you at home, getting you out and about and visiting places and enjoying those experiences. I wonder whether collaboration is the answer to this.Massimiliano Freddi: I think you nailed it because it's crucial. Everybody who has not been working for this industry, when they enter the industry, because they might change jobs, everybody is so surprised that we collaborate so heavily. And I think that a key to this success has always been this big collaboration. I have almost always in my career been part of smaller facilities. And to me, IAAPA and the associations were, it's been crucial, you know, because you are alone. Very, very often your facility is in the middle of nowhere. No matter if you're part of a big group, because even big groups have facilities in the middle of nowhere, but for family-owned and operated attractions, that's almost the golden rule.Massimiliano Freddi: And so there are so many days in your life, in your career, in your profession, where you would benefit strongly from talking to somebody else who's been through something like you before and who's found a different solution and who can open up your eyes. So I think that's the beauty of our industries is getting together. Again, if we don't get together, how can we make people get together?Paul Marden: Yeah, I'm very excited about getting together because I've got my first IAAPA in Barcelona coming up. And I'm very excited about what this is going to be like.Massimiliano Freddi: Oh, you will be blown away.Paul Marden:  I can't wait. I absolutely can't wait. Now, look. Someone has once described you as a dreamer and a doer. One of your dreams was to be managing director of a theme park. Where did that inspiration come from?Massimiliano Freddi: So it comes from a terrible childhood. And so it comes from the fact that, yeah, the world around me when I was a kid was not a positive world. And my family had a lot of troubles. And I'm an orphan from the side of my mother. I mean, I went through several things. And so I think that the attractions industry, to me, it really meant this place that's always happy and where grownups can really take great care of kids and kids at heart.Massimiliano Freddi: So I think that my passion came out of that. Now, dreaming and doing, of course, we all have as a big myth and as a reference, Walt Disney himself, and he was the guy who first said, 'Dreamers and doers' talking about, what enterprises, so his imagineers. I think that whenever I see something, I want to say something. Everybody who knows me knows pretty well. But it means that I love to see the world in a constant improvement. So, if I check in at a hotel and I see that there is something in there that, you know, it even doesn't impact me. But with a small step, they could make it better and fix it. I just share it and I share it, you know, wherever I am. And so I think that maybe this was a bit of my secret weapon because I got involved in several things. I think because I'm curious and maybe because I'm generous in sharing.Massimiliano Freddi: And I don't know if there is a secret there. There is just that in the moment in which you accept yourself the way you are and you acknowledge that you have some talents, and you don't have some others, and some skills you can get better, some others no way—okay. I could never never be an attorney, I could never do a lot of jobs on the planet, but now I know, at the age of 44, that I know what I'm good at, and even if I'm good at that, I want to constantly improve. So I think that maybe the support that I could bring to the table to the companies I've worked for, to the associations, to my own business, and so on, it's always been this obsession with constant improvement every day.Paul Marden: I think it takes a certain vulnerability, doesn't it? To spot something that you think can be improved and to offer a suggestion. And I think it's so valuable. I was at an attraction recently and I got the email at the end of the day, saying, 'How was it?' Please leave us a review. I went to click it and it didn't work. I knew the head of marketing, so I just pinged him off a quick email that just said, 'Oh, I had such a brilliant time but I couldn't leave you a review. I wanted to give you a brilliant review, but I couldn't do it because it didn't work. And that led them to go and look at all of their outbound emails, and none of them were working properly. But you know, you could walk by and just leave that alone. But I can't do it. However, it is sometimes does make you feel really awkward, couldn't you? But when I get great services in a restaurant, when somebody looks after me while at an attraction, I want to tell them how good it was, and if I can see something they can do better, I want to tell them what they could do.Massimiliano Freddi:  Totally, totally. And I'm so much on the same page. I was about to say that it's equally important to call people out when they're doing well.Paul Marden: Yeah.Massimiliano Freddi: So to make sure that they are aware. And sometimes, you know, to say there was one day where I travelled during a bank holiday, and I arrived at the entire bank holiday, and I arrived to the airport, and I decided I wanted to thank each and every employee that I would meet because they were there that day. I mean. We got used that Sundays are no longer Sundays, but the bank holidays, these are the moments in which you spend time with your family and with your kids and so on. And if you're there and you're working, I mean, it's good that somebody sees you and tells you, 'Hey, thank you because you're working even today, you know?' And you can tell how everybody gets surprised. So I think that we learn so much more by positive reinforcement.Massimiliano Freddi: And so how important it is also to tell attractions, facilities, managers, CEOs. I mean, CEOs, they are so used to just getting... I can't use swear words. Yes, you can. Under those kind of storms, you know, all the time, all the time. And so when a CEO does something good, come on, let's tell her.Paul Marden: Yeah, it's a really lonely job. And all you get is... is the spankings and the tellings off. Isn't it? So when they get it right, they definitely need a pat on the back because they're not going to get it. They're not going to get it. So I can't believe this. At the age of 28, you made your dream come true and you were managing director of a theme park in Italy for Minitalia, which became Leolandia, in this role you took guest numbers from 300, 000 guests a year to over 800,000.Paul Marden: Tell us that story. How do you so dramatically increase footfall at the attraction?Massimiliano Freddi: I don't think it was me. I think it was a great teamwork because it's a great teamwork, you know, and you can grow this much. If your operation is working very well, if your safety is right on spot, if the park is clean, you know, and so on. I can tell you one thing that when we were at the basic level, so at the very beginning, of course, we couldn't afford to buy big attractions or too heavily themed. And we needed really, I remember that the first Halloween, we had a 10K budget, 10,000 euro budget for a whole month of Halloween. Okay, so we would go to the do-it-yourself stores and buy brooms and build everything. I mean, that was a magical moment because it created the capability of the team to envision that, if you want, you can do with the things you have. And of course, with a huge budget, you can do fantastic things.Massimiliano Freddi: But sometimes, you know, this helps. So in that moment... TripAdvisor was a true success still. We're talking about 20 years ago. So TripAdvisor was kind of the reference. That's even before Google Maps and all that. So I remember that I did an analysis and I understood that every restaurant or park who had over 4. 5 out of 5 was growing. And having 4 out of 5 was not enough. Now we call it NPS, we call it a different way. But there, in this practical way, so I remember this moment with my team saying, 'Hey, we need to be obsessed with getting five stars.' And this is the point. So what can we do? First of all, we can have the cleanest toilets on earth. Let's make sure that the smell is good, they are super clean, and so on. Because people, that's a level of service. Of course, this is not a driver of visit, but this is a driver of satisfaction. And in the same way, let's start to work with better suppliers when it comes to food and beverage.Massimiliano Freddi: Let's start to make things more comfortable. So I think that this was the first thing. The second aspect, again, it's very much linked to IAAPA because I think that attending the show every year and knowing the people. At that time, Jakob Wahl, he used to be one of the employees of IAAPA in Brussels. I don't think he was a manager at the time yet. He was in charge of keeping relationships with members. So I reached out to him. We are the same age. I reached out to him and I said, 'Hey, I would love to visit a few facilities in other countries because I need to get fresh ideas.' It was a very delicate moment. We came out of two bad seasons due to bad weather. Because then you know, you don't go from here to here as a straight line, but always as this roller coaster. And in a moment you think, 'Oh, I made it.' There's a dip.Paul Marden: Yeah.Massimiliano Freddi: You can never sleep. And so he put me in contact with several facilities. I visited some in Belgium, in the Netherlands, and in the UK. And in the UK, I visited this, at that time, small park still called Paulton's Park. You might know that. I remember it was a weekday with bad weather and the parking lot was packed. And I was like, 'How comes?' Kids are not at school today. What is the point? I enter the park. The park is, yeah, not so crowded. So I really suspect that they are, you know, keeping the people all shut down together in a place. I don't know. I don't know what the point was. And then I enter the Peppa Pig's World.Massimiliano Freddi: And it blows my mind. And again, what blows my mind is that it didn't have any huge attraction. But it had that feeling. And people were just so happy. It was magic. Little kids there with their families, a lot of strollers all over the place, traffic jams due to strollers. And so I came back and I said, 'Hey, we need to get Peppa Pig.' And I remember that the team was like, 'It can't happen.' It has happened. In the end, we were the second park in the world after Paulton's Park to get Peppa. And that reshaped the entire strategy of the park we had at that time, turning it into what we wanted to achieve, is to become the best park for the kids under the age of 10 in Southern Europe. And best means really the best, rated from the bottom of the heart. And so this is what has happened. So I think that, you know, before Leolandia, I had worked for Disneyland Paris and I'm a big Disney fan. So that was kind of the school I had attended and I just had to apply. The theory that I've learned, I had to apply it, and I had a fantastic team and the resources to do that.Paul Marden: Amazing. Now, fast forward to 2018, and you've taken the step from MD to founder and founded Wonderwood on Lake Maggiore. Now, let's test my Italian. You've also founded Wonderwood Spina Verde. Massimiliano Freddi: I'm speechless. I can't correct anything.Paul Marden: Wonderful. Overlooking Lake Como, both of which, by the way, were... So I've been to Maggiore and Lake Como for my honeymoon. So a beautiful, beautiful place. And you've put two parks there. How has that been?Massimiliano Freddi:  It has been crazy. So I remember that the first year, and I mean, we created the company at the end of 2018. We've opened our gates in the summer of 2019. Now, if we all remember what has happened at the beginning of 2020.Paul Marden: Yeah.Massimiliano Freddi: Okay, so perfect timing. Now, I can tell you that the first season, every day, I would literally cry, but for real.Massimilliano Freddi: I was exhausted. My husband was exhausted. We thought that this was a nightmare, the worst possible nightmare. And if somebody had knocked on my door and asked me, 'Hey, could I just take it over?' I don't give you a penny. I will just take home the loans. I would have said yes. And that's because, of course, every project is over budget. Of course. No matter. No matter.Massimiliano Freddi: And when it's a family company and you don't have the money because you've contracted several loans and so on, it makes it super, super difficult. So in that moment, my call for action was because the possibility of Lake Maggiore was in the town where I spent every summer as a kid. So it was a love story. And I wanted to give back to the community. I wanted to do something in the nature that would inspire kids to hike more. To become more active and just not only to stay in front of a screen, but to do something different. So that came out of this kind of dream. And so it was a nightmare. It was a nightmare at the very beginning. Then COVID hit and we were very lucky, of course, because we didn't lose anyone from our families and friends. So I am very thankful for that. And at the same time, it gave us the possibility to stop for a second, rewind, and refine our strategy.Massimiliano Freddi: Because we had just closed the park in, I mean, the week before Christmas, and we were supposed to reopen in less than three months, but we were exhausted. So I'm telling this story because usually it's so nice to tell that the triumphs, you know, and say, 'Hey, it's been fantastic.' Yeah, we nailed it. We had, no, we made 200 mistakes.Massimiliano Freddi: And we paid for all the mistakes. So I think that in that moment, yeah, we were struggling at the beginning. We were reflecting in the middle part. And then three years ago, two to three years ago, I woke up one morning and I understood that I really loved what I was doing. And it had changed. It had changed. And seeing so many families happy and so many people visiting and seeing... How many young professionals or students started to work with us and then you see them leaping? I think that this is the most beautiful thing on earth. It's very empowering. So right now I'm in this situation where I am so grateful for this entire six years, even if they started in a way that was very, very heavy. But, you know, the Latins used to say 'per aspera ad astra.' It means... 'towards the stars through the asperities.' And so we need to go through that thing, that tunnel.Paul Marden: Absolutely. Now, as if founding your own parks wasn't enough, you also mix your time as a professor at the university. I can hear from what you were talking about, about bringing the young professionals into the park, that there's an element to you of apprenticeship almost, of teaching that next cohort of people that are going to come and take over the world.Paul Marden: How exciting is that for you to be able to mix that in at the university?Massimiliano Freddi: It's fantastic. It's fantastic. And again, it came out of passion. It came out. I didn't do a PhD after my university. My career wasn't supposed to be the academic one. And I didn't trust I would be able to do that. And then I got called for a lecture, then two lectures, and three lectures. And then, right now, I have several courses at university.Massimiliano Freddi: There's a point. The point is that, if we meet between our age of 14, 14, 15, until our 25, and if we narrow it down, it's between maybe 16 and 22, this is the moment in which it's more important to meet some mentors. And most of us don't meet mentors. They meet nice people around them, giving them very nice advice based on their experience and not seeing the talents they have in front of them. And in several cases, we are scared. We think that we are not enough. And so I really think that it's such a huge privilege for me to be able to be at university and to meet so many hundreds of students every year and to try to make my small impact so that, first of all, they can believe in themselves and they can believe that the world can be a better place, even if right now it's kind of a tough moment. But from tough moments, again, we can learn things.Massimiliano Freddi: Even at IAAPA, one of the things that I really am passionate more about is what are the spaces we can create for young professionals and students. So I want to give two very short examples. The IAAPA Foundation has evolved a lot over the last few years. We were able to collect so many more donations.Massimiliano Freddi: And now, this year, it will be a record-breaking year when it comes to scholarships to which students can apply in universities around the globe. So I think that's... But to me and to all of us in the board of the IAAPA Foundation, that's like the starting point. We are here celebrating because it's a big achievement and then we look each other in the eyes and say, 'Okay, now what's next?' Now, how can we make sure that the impact is even bigger? And if we go on the side of IAAPA, I think we are very... We pay a lot of attention to make sure that the membership fees are very low for the people entering. The word of leisure. Just a few weeks ago, it got launched on the IAAPA job board that whoever has a company and wants to post an internship, that's free to post. So that, you know, there could be thousands of internships available for students.Massimiliano Freddi: Of course, as a big association, we are used to talk to members and maybe older members because we visit facilities and we visit manufacturers and we need to deal with safety and stuff. But students and young professionals are not on the back of my head. They are like near and dear to my heart. And so my real question is: when this year ends in a couple of months, how can I dedicate myself even more to contribute to young people? Because I think that they are making a change. They will make a change. And we are learning so much from them because the work we are leaving you and me right now. I have bad news. It's no longer our world. We don't have the code to decode that. So we don't have the keys. We can just support people that are better than us and make sure that they can live, that they can teach, that they can learn.  That's a bit of what I see.Paul Marden: I completely agree with you. I think it's interesting because you talk about what you're giving, but you're also getting something back. This is not entirely altruistic, is it? The support that you're giving for these young people and early career professionals, you're getting something back, enriching yourself and learning new things from them.Massimiliano Freddi: Always, always. And I think that, you know, I don't always teach. Market leisure marketing and stuff— you know, I teach marketing at a at a Master's Degree in Management of Beauty and Wellness, total different industry, you know, food and wine. As I was telling, but what I bring home every time is how much young people need to feel seen and, and this is truly important because if we create for them not a safe zone, because of course we want them to get messy. We want them to take risks, but they need to feel safe as humans and they need to feel safe as seen. And so I appreciate a lot this because then the energy that I... And you know, when we talk about IAAPA, we have so many ambassadors that have been contributing to the IAAPA trade shows and events all over the globe. We have young people joining the committees.Massimiliano Freddi: Right now, there are a few, more than a few young professional task forces around the globe that are really helping us, old people, to understand what they need. So I think that we are at the very beginning. And if I could say a dream out loud, I wish that IAAPA in five or ten years, maybe in five years, can multiply the number of young engaged people in the association by 100. 10 is not enough. 20 is by 100. We need to make an impact. And I think we want to make an impact. So hopefully.Paul Marden: Well, there's an ambition for you. And I think every... worthwhile project— every it always starts with that kind of ambitious goal— at the very beginning of it you need to be driven by that  hundred times impact not the 10 times impact we we always like to finish our interviews with a book recommendation, fiction, non-fiction, industry-related or not, give us a view uh into your reading habits, okay, so can I mention more than one book? You bankrupt me because I always offer the book recommendation as a prize for people, but you can have more than one.Massimiliano Freddi: Okay. Okay. Thank you because I'm a big reader. So the first author that I would love to mention is J. K. Rowling because Harry Potter is not just a story of a kid or of magic, but it's a story of a woman who was a bit desperate. And then... She followed what she was feeling. She allowed her emotions to flow. And she has created a masterpiece. And she has impacted us all, you know, no matter business-related, non-business-related, and so on. So I think that, to read again, the first Harry Potter book, it's very important because it brings us back to some reason why, you know, and to some things. The second book that I would love to mention is a book written by Seth Godin. I have had the privilege to work for Seth for several years.Paul Marden: Really?Massimiliano Freddi: And yeah, he's an amazing guy. He's an amazing guy. And come on, he's such a generous person and he's amazing.Massimiliano Freddi: I don't have any other words that's amazing. He wrote a book maybe 10 years ago, 15 years ago called Linchpin. And Linchpin is not his most famous book, but it's the book that changed my life because it really nudges you. In a gentle and not so gentle way sometimes. No, I'm saying in a gentle way. It nudges you to don't set for what you have, but to see your inner talents and to innovate and to be creative, be generous, and so on. So, Linchpin to me is the book that changed it all for me. So, I think that everybody, young, less young, everybody should read once in a lifetime.Paul Marden: I feel like I need to go and read this because that is one Seth Godin book I have not read. So there we go. Listeners, if you would like a copy of Linchpin, then the first person that heads over to LinkedIn and reposts our show notice and says, 'I want Massimiliano's book' and can spell Massimiliano correctly, will have a copy of the book sent to them. We've got IAAPA Europe taking place next week in Barcelona.Paul Marden: And we have a very special Skip the Queue announcement. We are going to be hitting the show floor on a daily basis. We are going to go live for daily episodes of Skip the Queue from the show floor. We're going to be talking to operators about what their challenges are like. Finding out what new supplier announcements are coming out. And the Skip the Queue team is going to be feverishly working away. We'll be recording during the day and Steve and Wenalyn will be editing and producing through the night, ready to post the show the following morning. So I'm very excited about that.Massimiliano Freddi: And I think we are super excited to have you guys on the trade show floor. And I recommend... Of course, visiting it, making the most out of it, and don't underestimate the fantastic education sessions that take place. There is a strong lineup of speakers that will impact the way that the industry will be in a few years. So, great opportunity.Paul Marden:  How's that for a trailer? That sounds amazing. Massimilliano, it really has been a pleasure to talk to you.Massimiliano Freddi: Thank you so much, Paul, for me as well. And see you in Barcelona.Paul Marden: Yes, how exciting. Looking forward to it.Paul Marden: Remember, if you'd like a copy of today's book, head over to LinkedIn and repost our show notice saying, 'I want a copy of Massimiliano's book.' If you've enjoyed this episode, please leave a review on your podcasting platform. It really helps people to find the show. If you didn't enjoy it, or you've got ideas about how we could improve the show, then let us know at hello@skipthequeue.fm. My thanks to Massimiliano and his team at IAAPA for their help with this episode. Skip The Queue is brought to you by Rubber Cheese, the digital agency that creates amazing websites for ambitious visitor attractions. This episode was written by Emily Burrows, produced by Wenalyn Dionaldo and edited by Steve Folland. To Skip the Queue team, also includes Sami Entwistle, Sinead Kimberley, Claire Furnival, and Andy Povey. The 2025 Visitor Attraction Website Survey is now LIVE! Dive into groundbreaking benchmarks for the industryGain a better understanding of how to achieve the highest conversion ratesExplore the "why" behind visitor attraction site performanceLearn the impact of website optimisation and visitor engagement on conversion ratesUncover key steps to enhance user experience for greater conversionsTake the Rubber Cheese Visitor Attraction Website Survey Report

In this episode, Frankie Tortora and Steve Folland have a chat in response to a question from strategy and planning specialist Sophie Greenwood. She says:“Hi Frankie & Steve,I'm writing this while feeding my baby in a sensory room. True story!Anyway, I'm going to be rebranding and renaming my business in the autumn, and wondered if you had any advice for what steps I could take between now and then to make it land with a bang? The rebrand has already been done with a designer (Mad About The Brand) — it's all ready. I just want to make sure it cuts through the noise and makes some waves.I'm also coming back from maternity leave very soon — so it's all a lot of change at once!Would love to hear your thoughts. Thanks!”What would your advice be? Let us know your thoughts using #DIFTKpodcast on Twitter and Instagram, and join in the conversation via the DIFTK Community. •••Sophie Greenwood's websiteFrankie Tortora's websiteSteve Folland's websiteSteve's podcast - Being FreelanceDoing It For The Kids websiteDIFTK InstagramSupport DIFTK on Ko-Fi•••This episode is supported by With Jack.With Jack protects sole traders and limited companies on the high seas of freelancing so you're free to navigate uncharted territories and fish for amazing projects. With Jack is all about insurance for freelance creatives. Simple. That doesn't mean more forms or faff — it means less. It's not about endless features and stale service — it's about one solid policy and the personal touch.With Jack is a trading style of Ashley Baxter Limited which is authorised and regulated by the Financial Conduct Authority. You can check this by visiting the Financial Services Register.https://withjack.co.uk/why-do-i-need-insurance/

Today, Steve's answering questions about –When a podcaster can take the leap and build a paid product/serviceThe calling yourself a 'freelancer' vs 'business owner' debateSteve's process around subcontracting and hiring other freelancers to work on projects with himLinks:Get the transcript hereListen to Steve's Mistakes That Made Me interview: Putting All Your (Client) Eggs in One BasketLoving the podcast?Support the show and leave a rating or review here: https://ratethispodcast.com/mistakesGet the BTS scoop on how this podcast is made in this bonus episode: https://emancopyco.com/btsWork with Eman Copy Co. to power up your email strategy, your launches, and your revenueFill in the enquiry form on this contact page: https://emancopyco.com/contact/Want to learn with me?Take Eman's “What's Your Perfect Newsletter Style?” quiz: https://www.emancopyco.com/quiz Check out my courses and masterclasses: https://emancopyco.com/learn-with-me/Say hi

When Steve Folland's *only* client let him go, he'd just quit his full-time job to go all in on his audio and video editing business. Being jobless and clientless couldn't have come at a worse time. Steve's wife had just gone on maternity leave and they had a brand new (4-month-old) baby – plus an older child too!In this Oldie But Goodie convo, Steve – also the host of the ‘Being Freelance' podcast – shares his entrepreneurial journey, how he diversified his skills and services, and what he learned from his biggest business mistake.Find the transcript of this episode on my website emancopyco.com/podcastLinks for this episode:Being Freelance - https://www.beingfreelance.comSteve Folland's website - https://stevefolland.comSteve Folland on Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/beingfreelance/If you loved this episode, take a screenshot, post it on Instagram, and tell everyone you know that this is the podcast to listen to. Don't forget to tag me! @emancopycoLoving the podcast?Support the show and leave a rating or review here: https://ratethispodcast.com/mistakesGet the BTS scoop on how this podcast is made in this bonus episode: https://emancopyco.com/btsWork with Eman Copy Co. to power up your email strategy, your launches, and your revenueFill in the enquiry form on this contact page: https://emancopyco.com/contact/Want to learn with me?Take Eman's “What's Your Perfect Newsletter Style?” quiz: https://www.emancopyco.com/quiz Check out my courses and masterclasses: https://emancopyco.com/learn-with-me/Say hi

In this episode, Frankie Tortora and Steve Folland have a chat in response to a question from Anonymous. They say:“I'm subcontracting on a project with a fellow freelancer. I like them, and working with them has been great. The project however, has been anything but. The clients are difficult, their working patterns don't fit with mine, and their constant changes have added to our workload many times.My question is —How do I maintain my relationship with the freelancer (with the hope of working with them again) while telling them that I don't want to do phase two of the project? I only signed up for phase one, but the client is acting as though phase two is a done deal, so I need to extricate myself without the other freelancer feeling like I've left them in the lurch! Help!”What would your advice be? Let us know your thoughts using #DIFTKpodcast on Twitter and Instagram, and join in the conversation via the DIFTK Community. •••Frankie Tortora's websiteSteve Folland's websiteSteve's podcast - Being FreelanceDoing It For The Kids websiteDIFTK InstagramSupport DIFTK on Ko-Fi•••This episode is supported by With Jack.With Jack protects sole traders and limited companies on the high seas of freelancing so you're free to navigate uncharted territories and fish for amazing projects. With Jack is all about insurance for freelance creatives. Simple. That doesn't mean more forms or faff — it means less. It's not about endless features and stale service — it's about one solid policy and the personal touch.With Jack is a trading style of Ashley Baxter Limited which is authorised and regulated by the Financial Conduct Authority. You can check this by visiting the Financial Services Register.https://withjack.co.uk/why-do-i-need-insurance/

In this episode, Frankie Tortora and Steve Folland have a chat in response to a question from Anonymous. They say:“How do you tell clients ‘I don't want to attend that bloody meeting'!? I know meetings are needed (could have been an email though!) but my clients are now adding me to monthly all staff meetings, staff outings etc. I don't even think all the staff realise I'm a freelancer?? It just ties up so much of my time and I also don't actually care about holidays/xmas dos etc as I'M SELF EMPLOYED. Help!”What would your advice be? Let us know your thoughts using #DIFTKpodcast on Twitter and Instagram, and join in the conversation via the DIFTK Community. •••Frankie Tortora's websiteSteve Folland's websiteSteve's podcast - Being FreelanceDoing It For The Kids websiteDIFTK InstagramSupport DIFTK on Ko-Fi•••This episode is supported by With Jack.With Jack protects sole traders and limited companies on the high seas of freelancing so you're free to navigate uncharted territories and fish for amazing projects. With Jack is all about insurance for freelance creatives. Simple. That doesn't mean more forms or faff — it means less. It's not about endless features and stale service — it's about one solid policy and the personal touch.With Jack is a trading style of Ashley Baxter Limited which is authorised and regulated by the Financial Conduct Authority. You can check this by visiting the Financial Services Register.https://withjack.co.uk/why-do-i-need-insurance/

In this episode, Frankie Tortora and Steve Folland have a chat in response to a question from Anonymous. They say:“Hi Frankie and Steve,I was asked by an organisation recently how much I'd charge to redesign a publication they produce three times a year, with a view to then designing that along with other publications for them going forward.Problem is, I sent the price in and now I'm convincing myself I've undercharged for the amount of work it will be… Kicking myself for letting the imposter syndrome voices in.What would you do? Suck it up because it's your mistake, or go back to them and correct yourself so you don't kick yourself each time you work on it (providing I get the job)? Have you ever revised a quote after sending it?Thanks!”What would your advice be? Let us know your thoughts using #DIFTKpodcast on Twitter and Instagram, and join in the conversation via the DIFTK Community. •••Frankie Tortora's websiteSteve Folland's websiteSteve's podcast - Being FreelanceDoing It For The Kids websiteDIFTK InstagramSupport DIFTK on Ko-Fi•••This episode is supported by With Jack.With Jack protects sole traders and limited companies on the high seas of freelancing so you're free to navigate uncharted territories and fish for amazing projects. With Jack is all about insurance for freelance creatives. Simple. That doesn't mean more forms or faff — it means less. It's not about endless features and stale service — it's about one solid policy and the personal touch.With Jack is a trading style of Ashley Baxter Limited which is authorised and regulated by the Financial Conduct Authority. You can check this by visiting the Financial Services Register.https://withjack.co.uk/why-do-i-need-insurance/

In this episode, I chat with Frankie Tortora, the founder of the Doing it for the Kids community and fellow graphic designer and podcaster! Frankie shares her experiences, challenges, and rewards in building a thriving community for freelancing parents and, as I'm sure you'd expect, is super honest about some of the harsh realities of it. Whether you're considering starting a membership or a community, this episode is a really juicy deep dive into what it takes to do it. Key Takeaways: Building a community is not as easy as it looks; it requires a lot of emotional labor and dedication. It is important to differentiate between building a community and building an audience, as they are not the same. Engaging with the community and modeling desired behavior is crucial for creating a positive and supportive environment. Dealing with churn is one of the biggest challenges of running a community. The rewards of building a community, such as seeing members connect and support each other, are invaluable. Episode Highlights: 01:47 Frankie's Journey: From Freelancer to Community Builder 04:09 Challenges and Triumphs of Managing a Growing Community 07:17 Transitioning to a Paid Community Model  09:52 Understanding the Difference Between Community and Audience 22:06 Balancing Community Management with Freelance Work  About the Guest: Frankie Tortora is the founder of the Doing it for the Kids community, an award-winning podcast, and a graphic designer. Community Website: doingitforthekids.net Graphic Design Website: francescatortora.com LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ftortora Mentioned in the Episode: Circle (community platform) Penny Wincer (writer) Steve Folland (co-host of the "Doing it for the Kids" podcast and founder of the Being Freelance community) End Credits: I would love to hear what you think of this episode, so please do let me know on Instagram where I'm @‌lizmmosley or @‌buildingyourbrandpodcast and I hope you enjoy the episode! This episode was written and recorded by me and produced by Lucy Lucraft (http://lucylucraft.co.uk ) If you enjoyed this episode please leave a 5* rating and review!

In this episode, Frankie Tortora and Steve Folland have a chat in response to a question from Anonymous. They say:“Dear Frankie and Steve,A retainer client of mine gave notice over the weekend (her business is quiet and she can't afford to keep us on) but it's got me thinking and feeling a bit stuck.I feel like *something is going to happen* — like a shift is coming? — but I can't quite put my finger on it or work it out, and I've decided I want to do this myself rather than doing some coaching etc.I suppose my question is… What do you and Steve do when you feel like this? Do you ever feel like this??Any tips or advice for working things out on your own?Thanks!”What would your advice be? Let us know your thoughts using #DIFTKpodcast on Twitter and Instagram, and join in the conversation via the DIFTK Community. •••Frankie Tortora's websiteSteve Folland's websiteSteve's podcast - Being FreelanceDoing It For The Kids websiteDIFTK InstagramSupport DIFTK on Ko-Fi•••This episode is supported by With Jack.With Jack protects sole traders and limited companies on the high seas of freelancing so you're free to navigate uncharted territories and fish for amazing projects. With Jack is all about insurance for freelance creatives. Simple. That doesn't mean more forms or faff — it means less. It's not about endless features and stale service — it's about one solid policy and the personal touch.With Jack is a trading style of Ashley Baxter Limited which is authorised and regulated by the Financial Conduct Authority. You can check this by visiting the Financial Services Register.https://withjack.co.uk/why-do-i-need-insurance/

In this episode, Frankie Tortora and Steve Folland have a chat in response to a question from Detective Don Burns aka Anonymous. They say:“Hi Frankie and Steve!I have a childcare question for you…With our first born, we never considered putting her in nursery. I reduced my hours at my (employed) job and my partner and I shared looking after her by working alternate days.This time around I'm self-employed, and with my partner now working 5 days a week, I'm only able to work after 4pm which is really hard. I'm getting work done, but it's incredibly difficult to get motivated to work at that time.Our youngest is now 2 and therefore qualifies for the 15 ‘free' hours a week. But we both feel incredibly guilty about thinking of using a nursery, even for a couple of afternoons a week. I personally feel like I'm being selfish, because we are making it work at the moment without formal childcare, and the number 1 reason we'd put him in a nursery would be so I can work during the day a bit more.Sooo, can I have your pros and cons for using paid-for childcare when you're in a situation like mine? When you don't NEED to.Thank youPs. I'd like a detective name please”What would your advice be? Let us know your thoughts using #DIFTKpodcast on Twitter and Instagram, and join in the conversation via the DIFTK Community. •••Frankie Tortora's websiteSteve Folland's websiteSteve's podcast - Being FreelanceDoing It For The Kids websiteDIFTK InstagramSupport DIFTK on Ko-Fi

In this episode, Frankie Tortora and Steve Folland have a chat in response to a question from Katie Beardsley — Owner at Willow & Woods, Life of Sprout, and And Other Memories:Katie says: “Hi Frankie & Steve,I'm at a stage with my business where I know what I want to be doing and where it is going, but I need to get myself out there more. With 3 young kids, 3 small businesses, a dog and a tortoise... I don't need to tell you, but I really don't have the time to be doing the marketing that I need to be doing. Especially as I am useless at it and don't really know what I'm doing! So I'm thinking about hiring some PR help but this doesn't come cheap. I'm sitting on the fence, umming and ahhing over it because I know that I *can* do it myself, but I don't want to get it wrong. But I also don't want to spend money on something that might not work (which has happened in the past). So after my very long intro — my question is this:How do you know when the right time to be spending money on a business is? Are there certain markers I should be reaching financially, or audience wise before I consider signing up to what is likely to be a minimum 3-month contract? What do I do? My brain is going round and round in circles!Thanks,Katie”What would your advice be? Let us know your thoughts using #DIFTKpodcast on Twitter and Instagram, and join in the conversation via the DIFTK Community. •••Willow and Woods websiteFrankie Tortora's websiteSteve Folland's websiteSteve's podcast - Being FreelanceDoing It For The Kids websiteDIFTK InstagramSupport DIFTK on Ko-Fi

In this episode, Frankie Tortora and Steve Folland have a chat in response to a question from Anonymous.They say…“I'm struggling to get back into the rhythm of creating content consistently.This isn't just an after-Christmas thing, this is an after-the-summer-last-year thing.I used to create every week without fail and I know people like what I do. And I even know it made a difference to my business, but I struggled with even once a month for the second half of the year.What do you think? How can I get my making mojo back?”What would your advice be? Let us know your thoughts using #DIFTKpodcast on Twitter and Instagram, and join in the conversation via the DIFTK Community.•••Frankie Tortora's websiteSteve Folland's websiteSteve's podcast - Being FreelanceDoing It For The Kids websiteDIFTK InstagramSupport DIFTK on Ko-Fi

The Small Business Sessions, Enterprise Nation's podcast, is back for a seventh exciting series of inspiring entrepreneurial stories and expert business tips! The podcast is powered by the business.connected online training programme and our partners Vodafone Business, Constant Contact, JP Morgan and Dropbox.Joining freelance journalist Dan Martin for the ninth and final episode in the current series is Steve Folland, a freelancer podcaster and video editor. With a long career in radio, Steve went freelance in 2013 and hasn't looked back! Alongside his work creating videos and podcasts for other people, he launched his own show, Being Freelance, in January 2015, followed by the Being Freelance vlog in 2016. Steve, who has been using Dropbox since 2013, also runs the Being Freelance community and is the co-host of Doing It For The Kids, a podcast for freelance parents which won gold for Best Business Podcast at the British Podcast Awards in 2021.In the show, Dan and Steve discuss topics including:how to succeed as a freelancerhow to set your prices as a freelancerhow to win new freelancer clientstech tools to boost productivity and efficiencythe impact of AI on the creative sectorDropbox is the one place to keep life organised and keep work moving. Tools include Dropbox, File Request, Dropbox Replay and Dropbox Sign.Big thanks for tuning into series seven of the Small Business Sessions. Look out for series eight in January 2025! -----The business.connected hub is a free online training programme of workshops, webinars and e-learning modules designed to help businesses go digital and adopt new technology.To find out more, go to www.enterprisenation.com/businessconnectedFor a free one-to-one consultation with an expert business adviser from Vodafone's V-Hub, visit www.vodafone.co.uk/business/sme-business/small-business-advice/personal-adviceTo listen to previous podcast episodes, go to www.enterprisenation.com/podcast

In this episode, Frankie Tortora and Steve Folland have a chat in response to a question from graphic designer Kiemia Farrow.Kiemia says: “Hi Frankie and Steve!I've been full-time freelance since 2020 (brave or stupid one month into a global pandemic?? You decide) and now have over 15 years of agency, in-house and freelance experience behind me.I charge by the hour and have some fabulous clients who trust the process and appreciate the timesheets I keep when I invoice them at the end of the month.I never quote up front, in fact, I refuse to do so because I am so bad at working out how long projects might take…!However, my question is — how do I know what my hourly rate should be? I never hear *anyone* discuss their hourly rate, and I am finding it quite a challenge to figure out if I am ‘doing it right' or not?I currently charge £50 an hour for existing clients, and all new clients I have moved to a new rate of £65 an hour. I have had no one complain or question it, I have not lost a client from it, but at the same time, I don't want to run the risk of losing a client or scaring away potential new clients if I am wayyyyyy off the mark in terms of pricing.How is everyone working this stuff out??Thank you for the fabulous work you both do, keep it up!Kiemia”What would your advice be? Let us know your thoughts using #DIFTKpodcast on Twitter and Instagram, and join in the conversation via the DIFTK Community. •••Kiemia Farrow's websiteFrankie Tortora's websiteSteve Folland's websiteSteve's podcast - Being FreelanceDoing It For The Kids websiteDIFTK InstagramSupport DIFTK on Ko-Fi 

In this episode, Frankie Tortora and Steve Folland have a chat in response to a question from Louise Jenkins who supports women with their transition into motherhood, and develops and facilitates workshops in partnership with organisations working to end violence against women and girls.Louise says: “Hi Frankie & Steve,With Wildling now at school, technically I have ‘more time' available to me spread out over a full week.*Chokes on tea because we all know ‘more time' is bullsh*t — have you seen the amount of school-related admin there is?!*Anyway. So far so good. But I need help managing this newfound time, and how to make the ‘best' of it I suppose? I'm battling with setting boundaries, and how to approach and commit to new or potential partners/clients, as well as finding space for MYSELF too.I'm slowly finding a groove. But would love to know how you and everybody in DIFTK found this shift?Thanks! Louise”What would your advice be? Let us know your thoughts using #DIFTKpodcast on Twitter and Instagram, and join in the conversation via the DIFTK Community. •••Louise Jenkins' websiteFrankie Tortora's websiteSteve Folland's websiteSteve's podcast - Being FreelanceDoing It For The Kids websiteDIFTK InstagramDIFTK TwitterSupport DIFTK on Ko-Fi

This episode was recorded with and is sponsored by Riverside. Head to https://creators.riverside.fm/lizmosley to check it out and use the code lizmosley for a 15% discount. In this episode, I chat with award winning freelance video and podcast editor Steve Folland to discuss the intimacy of podcasting, sonic branding, and the impact of podcasting on business. Steve shares insights from his successful podcasts 'Being Freelance' and 'Doing It for the Kids', his experiences with client work, and the evolution of his podcast community. We cover topics from how to market your podcast, the value of consistent audio elements, and the benefits of repurposing content. Steve also offers advice for those hesitant to start a podcast and talks about his passion for podcast editing. Tune in for valuable tips and behind-the-scenes stories!  Episode highlights:  05:51 The Power of Community and Podcasting 16:47 Private Podcasts and Monetization Strategies 31:35 The Value of Podcasting 49:54 Sonic Branding Don't forget to check out Steve online and follow him on Instagram! If you'd like to have a chat come find me on Instagram. Can't wait to connect with you. This episode was written and produced by me and edited by Lucy Lucraft. If you enjoyed this episode please leave a 5* rating and review!   

In this episode, Frankie Tortora and Steve Folland have a chat in response to a question from graphic designer Ange Lyons.Ange says: “Hi Frankie & Steve!Do you think it's possible to market yourself as a freelancer in 2024 without using social media? Particularly if you *hate* showing your face?Thanks! Ange”What would your advice be? Let us know your thoughts using #DIFTKpodcast on Twitter and Instagram, and join in the conversation via the DIFTK Community. •••Ange Lyons' websiteFrankie Tortora's websiteSteve Folland's websiteSteve's podcast - Being FreelanceDoing It For The Kids websiteDIFTK InstagramDIFTK TwitterSupport DIFTK on Ko-Fi

In this episode, Frankie Tortora and Steve Folland have a chat in response to a question from marketing consultant Ayo Abbas.Ayo says: “Hi Frankie & Steve,It's tough out there right now — what do you think is the quickest way freelancers can make something happen in terms of winning work?Thanks, Ayo”What would your advice be? Let us know your thoughts using #DIFTKpodcast on Twitter and Instagram, and join in the conversation via the DIFTK Community. •••Ayo Abbas' websiteFrankie Tortora's websiteSteve Folland's websiteSteve's podcast - Being FreelanceDoing It For The Kids websiteDIFTK InstagramDIFTK TwitterSupport DIFTK on Ko-Fi

In this episode, Frankie Tortora and Steve Folland have a chat in response to a question from wedding florist Esme Ford.Esme says: “Hi Frankie & Steve!I am giving a 10 minute talk next week and I need your help.Public speaking is something I never do, so I had a little practice and filmed myself doing my talk and my voice is soooooo wishy washy. I hate it when I ‘ummm' a lot so try to actively pause instead, but then the flow of the talk is all wrong?I just feel like my voice has no authority!How do you both make your voice sound so clear and confident? Have you always been good at speaking or have you just improved with time?Thanks!Esme”What would your advice be? Let us know your thoughts using #DIFTKpodcast on Twitter and Instagram, and join in the conversation via the DIFTK Community. •••Esme Ford's websiteFrankie Tortora's websiteSteve Folland's websiteSteve's podcast - Being FreelanceDoing It For The Kids websiteDIFTK InstagramDIFTK TwitterSupport DIFTK on Ko-Fi

In this episode, Frankie Tortora and Steve Folland have a chat in response to a question from Detective Babs Harris aka Anonymous.“I work with corporate clients around workshop facilitation and keynote speaking. My question is around pricing transparency. I am finding that I am getting lots of enquiries (which I am very grateful for!). Most of the time I respond via email with my fees and the potential client doesn't have the budget. I would say this happens three quarters of the time. My fees are probably higher than average but I'm happy with the price point and the value I offer and I have lots of repeat clients that I work with closely. It's not a major admin task to respond to each enquiry individually but collectively over a month or so it can take up quite a bit of time. So I am looking at reviewing how I do things. I'm keen to understand what others do and why. Do they: 1. Display prices on your website? 2. Send fees in response to an enquiry, prior to setting up a meeting with the potential client? 3. Meet with the potential client first and then send prices after? Which approach do you think is best for maximising revenue, building relationships but also protecting time?"What would your advice be? Let us know your thoughts using #DIFTKpodcast on Twitter and Instagram, and join in the conversation via the DIFTK Community. •••Frankie Tortora's websiteSteve Folland's websiteSteve's podcast - Being FreelanceDoing It For The Kids websiteDIFTK InstagramDIFTK TwitterSupport DIFTK on Ko-Fi

In this episode, Frankie Tortora and Steve Folland have a chat in response to a question from Detective Roxanne Maxwell aka Anonymous.She says…“I had a situation recently where I responded to somebody who I know really well offering to help me with something. I said yes, appreciated the service they did for me and I paid them for that service.Afterwards, they asked if I'd be happy to give a testimonial and I said, ‘sure — how about you draft something and I'll tweak it?' They sent me something. I tweaked their words so it was more like me and shortened it so it wasn't so gushy because… you know how some services just go the extra mile and they're brilliant and you were wax lyrical about them because you loved them so much? Well, this wasn't one of those situations. But nor was it a shit service. It was just… bang for your buck type stuff.Since then my endorsement has been used as a propeller for this particular service in online spaces and it's just made me feel really uncomfortable.It's made me really think about how we ask people for testimonials, but also, how we use those testimonials and how that lands with the person we've asked. Now I know it's really important to get testimonials, and I know it's really important to bang our own drums and promote ourselves — but is there a way to do that without making the people we've asked feel icky?I mean, should have I said — ‘happy for you to use this, but could you not plaster it everywhere, everyday, for 50 weeks of the year?!' (which is how it feels at the moment) Because, if I'm honest, this experience is going to make me reluctant to give testimonials in the future and I would hate for any of my clients to feel like that.”What would your advice be? Let us know your thoughts using #DIFTKpodcast on Twitter and Instagram, and join in the conversation via the DIFTK Community. •••Frankie Tortora's websiteSteve Folland's websiteSteve's podcast - Being FreelanceDoing It For The Kids websiteDIFTK InstagramDIFTK TwitterSupport DIFTK on Ko-Fi

When Steve Folland's *only* client let him go, he'd just quit his full-time job to go all in on his audio and video editing business. Being jobless and clientless couldn't have come at a worse time. Steve's wife had just gone on maternity leave and they had a brand new (4-month-old) baby – plus an older child too! In this conversation, Steve – also the host of the ‘Being Freelance' podcast – shares his entrepreneurial journey, how he diversified his skills and services, and what he learned from his biggest business mistake. Find the transcript of this episode on my website emancopyco.com/podcast. Links for this episode: Join the podcast's $11 private membership and unlock bonus content: https://emancopyco.com/membership Being Freelance - https://www.beingfreelance.com Steve Folland's website - https://stevefolland.com Steve Folland on Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/beingfreelance/ If you loved this episode, take a screenshot, post it on Instagram, and tell everyone you know that this is the podcast to listen to. Don't forget to tag me! @emancopyco-------- Loving the podcast? Join the podcast's $11 private membership and unlock bonus content: https://emancopyco.com/membership Support the show and leave a rating or review here: https://ratethispodcast.com/mistakes Get the BTS scoop on how this podcast is made in this bonus episode: https://emancopyco.com/bts Work with Eman Copy Co. to power up your email strategy, your launches, and your revenue Fill in the enquiry form on this contact page: https://emancopyco.com/contact/ Want to learn with me? Check out my courses and masterclasses: https://emancopyco.com/learn-with-me/ Say hi

In this episode, Frankie Tortora and Steve Folland have a chat in response to a question from project management expert Nina Lenton.Nina says: “As well as my work as a freelance project director and manager, I have a blog on the subject of everyday joy (in life and work), which I write on every now and then.  I'd like to do more with it, but am afraid I could easily spend all of my time doing that instead of paid work, which of course isn't really sensible!How do people who have similar side projects (blog, podcast etc) manage to balance it with paid work (or even manage to get paid something for doing the side project)?”What would your advice be? Let us know your thoughts using #DIFTKpodcast on Twitter and Instagram, and join in the conversation via the DIFTK Community. •••Nina Lenton's websiteFrankie Tortora's websiteSteve Folland's websiteSteve's podcast - Being FreelanceDoing It For The Kids websiteDIFTK InstagramDIFTK TwitterSupport DIFTK on Ko-Fi

In this episode, Frankie Tortora and Steve Folland have a chat in response to a question from Lametta Truffleballs AKA Anonymous.They say…“Hi Frankie & Steve,I see a lot of freelancers ‘doing good' with their business, donating x % to the planet or to another good cause. I really like this idea, but — with two small children, one of which is still in a private nursery — I feel like I just don't have the spare money to do this? Should I just suck it up and do it anyway??Help!”What would your advice be? Let us know your thoughts using #DIFTKpodcast on Twitter and Instagram, and join in the conversation via the DIFTK Community. •••Frankie Tortora's websiteSteve Folland's websiteSteve's podcast - Being FreelanceDoing It For The Kids websiteDIFTK InstagramDIFTK TwitterSupport DIFTK on Ko-Fi

In this episode, Frankie Tortora and Steve Folland have a chat in response to a question from Colin Parks AKA Anonymous.They say…“Hi Frankie and SteveI've worked for a company (employed) for over 12 years. It's grown from 50 people to a 5,000+ strong agency.I work with digital technology as an Account Director and I've managed some decent clients. My key skills are listening to, understanding and challenging client requirements, and then translating them into actionable, achievable outcomes. I have the soft skills of technology, but I don't code. I'm now fed up with the increasing internal hierarchy, unnecessary process bollocks and the required emphasis on being seen to do things (like PowerPoint decks) rather than actually achieving valuable outcomes for clients.Anyway, I'm currently on 3 months of gardening leave so I have some time to plan my goals, brush up on skills, and, of course, do some gardening…Ultimately, I want to go freelance, but I don't want to be known as a “C” word (Consultant) as I intend to actually roll my sleeves up and do work such as designing Proof of Concepts, helping their development teams and deciding on the right technology.What advice can you give someone wanting to go freelance when it's about services and outcomes rather than outputs? That is, I don't create, say, graphics or videos. Instead, I help clients define their problems and investigate solutions. Any thoughts? Thanks, Colin”What would your advice be? Let us know your thoughts using #DIFTKpodcast on Twitter and Instagram, and join in the conversation via the DIFTK Community. •••Frankie Tortora's websiteSteve Folland's websiteSteve's podcast - Being FreelanceDoing It For The Kids websiteDIFTK InstagramDIFTK TwitterSupport DIFTK on Ko-Fi

The British Broadcasting Corporation (BBC) is podcaster Steve Folland's favourite brand. Listening to Simon Mayo on Walkman. Rushing home to watch 'The Broom Cupboard' after school. 'Ski Sunday' signalling the end of the weekend. Steve's childhood is wrapped up in warm memories of the BBC: a trusted friend with whom he has journeyed ever since. Expect to hear why this is a brand that—perhaps like no other—gets under our skin. EPISODE TRANSCRIPT: www.pilgrimage.design/18-bbc Steve's website: www.stevefolland.com Being Freelance podcast: www.beingfreelance.com What is this podcast? Your brand + an emotional connection with your audience = success. But that middle part is tricky. I'm here to equip you to achieve it, through personal stories of individuals who have emotionally resonated with branding. I'm Sam, a brand designer and your host. In each episode, released on the 14th of the month, a top guest picks their favourite brand. I then invite them to unpack why it means so much. As they share, we gain invaluable insights into what makes audiences tick. Not with strategy or theory, but through that undeniable proof of successful branding: emotion. Whether you're a business wanting to better connect, a charity struggling to garner support or a branding professional needing encouragement, this is the podcast for you. Podcast artwork created with the help of Canva AI. AI policy: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠www.pilgrimage.design/ai-policy⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Who am I? I'm Sam Thorogood. Hi! I'm a brand designer for startups, creators, charities, eco projects and church plants. I'm on a mission: equip these pioneering brands to bring others onto their journeys. My website: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠www.pilgrimage.design⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Final thing (I promise)! Every other Tuesday, I share succinct advice on how to integrate design techniques and philosophy into your brand. Encouraging, empowering... and totally free. Welcome to the journey towards better branding. ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠pilgrimagedesign.substack.com

In this episode, Frankie Tortora and Steve Folland have a chat in response to a question from Grace Abell, designer at Abell Design — a brand and digital creative studio.She says…“To cut a long story short — I'm a seasoned freelancer who is just getting back into working evenings as I'm caring for twins during the day.My problem is this: As I do not have the capacity for project work, I'm now taking on small tasks from one agency whose fingers are in many pies. I have a set of ethical views which are privately held. These tend to overlap with what this client does, but not always. Therefore, I need some tips on turning down work on topics which are icky for me personally, but aren't icky for other people. The client always asks “are you available?” and doesn't usually disclose what the task is. This kind of work is often under NDA. I'm just very scared I'll agree to a job based on my availability, then the content will arrive in my inbox and I'll have to turn it down there and then. I've considered writing my list of no-gos in a contract, but then I don't really want my views to be known by every client. I'm not ashamed of my opinions — I just think it's more professional and mature to keep them to myself. What do you think?”What would your advice be? Let us know your thoughts using #DIFTKpodcast on Twitter and Instagram, and join in the conversation via the DIFTK Community. •••Abell Design websiteFrankie Tortora's websiteSteve Folland's websiteSteve's podcast - Being FreelanceDoing It For The Kids websiteDIFTK InstagramDIFTK TwitterSupport DIFTK on Ko-Fi

In this episode, Frankie Tortora and Steve Folland have a chat in response to a question from Emma Roberts, director at Social Qual.Emma says:“You know when you stumble upon someone fab, and your brain goes ‘ooh, collaboration potential'? Perhaps we meet on LinkedIn and then organise a cuppa or intro call. We chat, we laugh, we bond over work joys and woes... and then we part with that cheerful, 'let's collaborate soon' but then… often our busy lives take over. I'm on both sides of this — an instigator of these types of calls and also someone who people reach out to.    So, I'm wondering...How can we make these cuppa-time conversations transform into actual collabs? Or should we even bother with these sorts of meetings?It feels like I need to be more strategic about which invites I accept and who I reach out to.  The social side of me responds to new folk with a Pavlov-dog response of ‘let's arrange a call' but I'm increasingly feeling a bit unsatisfied with that approach.  Anyone else? How do I get more strategic about these calls without being a nob?” What would your advice be? Let us know your thoughts using #DIFTKpodcast on Twitter and Instagram, and join in the conversation via the DIFTK Community. •••Social Qual websiteFrankie Tortora's websiteSteve Folland's websiteSteve's podcast - Being FreelanceDoing It For The Kids websiteDIFTK InstagramDIFTK TwitterSupport DIFTK on Ko-Fi

In this episode, Frankie Tortora and Steve Folland have a chat in response to a question from Lucy Critchley, founder of Untold Creative Services.Lucy says:“I use Canva A LOT. My clients find it super simple (mostly!) so it just makes sense. I've never learned how to use Illustrator/Photoshop etc but I feel like I should…? I think it would be a good skill to have and could be a benefit to my business in terms of being taken seriously with design/graphics/socials work. But I haven't a clue where to start! Or if it's even a good idea or not. It probably also stems back to being told I wasn't very creative when I was younger… hello imposter syndrome!Any thoughts welcome!”What would your advice be? Let us know your thoughts using #DIFTKpodcast on Twitter and Instagram, and join in the conversation via the DIFTK Community. •••Untold Creative ServicesFrankie Tortora's websiteSteve Folland's websiteSteve's podcast - Being FreelanceDoing It For The Kids websiteDIFTK InstagramDIFTK TwitterSupport DIFTK on Ko-Fi

In this episode, Frankie Tortora and Steve Folland have a chat in response to a question from Anonymous, AKA Lotus Vanreisel.Lotus says:“Hello freelance friends!I'd like your opinion on an email I've received from one of my longest and most favourite clients…After months of no work and no contact, she asked me last month if I have any availability in the next few weeks. I said ‘yes' and also told her that my rates had gone up since we last spoke.Here is her reply:"So I'd love to be able to put some work your way but the hourly rate is a bit high — is there any flexibility? I know you don't really do full days because of your daughter. Let me know."This irritates me no end as it implies I should charge less because wI have childcare duties. (I also know she worked part-time and didn't earn much when her kids were younger.)How do you handle situations like these?I'll also add that another long-standing client just asked me for a lot of work over the next couple of months, so while I could fit her in, I don't have an awful lot of availability.Would love your thoughts.Thanks, Lotus”What would your advice be? Let us know your thoughts using #DIFTKpodcast on Twitter and Instagram, and join in the conversation via the DIFTK Community.•••Frankie Tortora's websiteSteve Folland's websiteSteve's podcast - Being FreelanceDoing It For The Kids websiteDIFTK InstagramDIFTK TwitterSupport DIFTK on Ko-Fi

In this episode, Frankie Tortora and Steve Folland have a chat in response to a question from designer, coder and illustrator Andi Best.Andi says:“I can't go on like this — I think I need to give in and ask for help!I am inundated with work and the enquiries keep coming, which is a great problem to have, but I don't know what to do about it.Previously I've mitigated large volumes of work by quoting higher or asserting my unavailability — ultimately turning work away. For a "busy period" that works well, but for the past 6 months I've been consistently (too) busy, and I now accept that I need to try something else. I just don't want to keep saying 'no'.I think I need more resource? I don't want ‘staff' (insurance, sick leave, payroll? No thanks!) but I do want something more robust than the ad-hoc outsourcing I do now.I think I need a firm freelance partnership? Or agency temp?Or similar arrangement?What's holding me back is a lack of trust in an unknown entity (the quality of the work, sharing client credentials etc.) —  ultimately relinquishing control of the work that's getting my name attached to it. And also a fear that their rates will exceed the fees already agreed for the work.Any advice?Thanks, Andi”What would your advice be? Let us know your thoughts using #DIFTKpodcast on Twitter and Instagram, and join in the conversation via the DIFTK Community.•••Andi Best's websiteFrankie Tortora's websiteSteve Folland's websiteSteve's podcast - Being FreelanceDoing It For The Kids websiteDIFTK InstagramDIFTK TwitterSupport DIFTK on Ko-Fi

In this episode, Frankie Tortora and Steve Folland have a chat in response to a question from Anonymous, AKA Zoe Honeysuckle.Zoe says:“Hi Frankie and Steve,I've been running my own business since May 2020 (with a 5 month old in tow!) and I feel fairly well versed with the peaks and troughs of freelance life.However, over the past few months I've noticed a few clients who are on my smaller packages/retainers drop off because of financial reasons. All good, and all totally understandable.I thought I'd use this new gap in my schedule to put together some new packages and try something a bit different around social media content creation and email marketing (and podcasts!) BUT, one of my existing clients has now asked for more hours and I am torn. I don't know whether to go for it — my client is brilliant and I really like working with them — or say no and protect my new-found time to build something new.I'm nervous that my new packages won't sell in the way I hope, and I don't want to turn down (well paying) work. What would you do? Help!”What would your advice be? Let us know your thoughts using #DIFTKpodcast on Twitter and Instagram, and join in the conversation via the DIFTK Community.•••Frankie Tortora's websiteSteve Folland's websiteSteve's podcast - Being FreelanceDoing It For The Kids websiteDIFTK InstagramDIFTK TwitterSupport DIFTK on Ko-Fi

In this episode, Frankie Tortora and Steve Folland have a chat in response to an excellent question from copywriter Lucette Funnell.She says:“I've been approached by a local charity about a volunteer position. I'm interested in what they're doing and definitely feel I could add value. But where on earth would I find the time?!And as a chronic over-thinker who always ends up taking longer than planned to do everything… And who already has a list as long as my arm of things to do for my own business… How would I keep it to just 3-4 hours a week?Will it add value? Or would I be better off working on marketing my business/ exercising/ making lunches that aren't biscuits or toast?”What would your advice be? Let us know your thoughts using #DIFTKpodcast on Twitter and Instagram, and join in the conversation via the DIFTK Community.• • •A BIG thank you to Patch and The Quick Brown Fox Video Production who supported our meetup in London. About PatchPatch is a new type of workspace and community hub, an accessible and family friendly place to work, discover and meet on the high street. We believe in a better balance for family and our health, in less commuting and more community by combining co-working with culture near to where you live.We are actively expanding across the country and would like to hear from you if you'd like one near you. Head to www.patch.work or check out instagram.com/patchplaces/ About The Quick Brown Fox Video ProductionThe Quick Brown Fox Video Production is a growing video production company based in southwest London with a real love for the carefully crafted moving image. We offer our clients over 20 years of filmmaking and video editing experience combined with creative backgrounds in Architecture and Sound Design.Our social media savvy team can help put your business on the map with engaging video content. We proudly help businesses and organisations tell their story in a captivating way that captures their audience's imagination. Head to www.thequickbrownfox.co.uk for more information.•••Lucette Funnell's websiteFrankie Tortora's websiteSteve Folland's websiteSteve's podcast - Being FreelanceDoing It For The Kids websiteDIFTK InstagramDIFTK TwitterSupport DIFTK on Ko-Fi

Steve Folland, creator of the Being Freelance podcast and Doing it for the Kids podcast, joined me on Ditching Hourly to chat about his journey into freelancing, organic business growth, and tips for getting into the business mindset. Chapters:(0:00:00) - The Freelance Journey of Steve Folland(0:05:00) - Organic Growth of a Freelance Business(0:15:52) - Freelancing for Beginners(0:20:26) - Getting Into the Business MindsetSteve's Links: https://www.beingfreelance.com/ https://twitter.com/beingfreelance https://www.instagram.com/beingfreelance/ https://www.youtube.com/stevefolland https://www.doingitforthekids.net/ ----Do you have questions about how to improve your business? Things like: Value pricing your work instead of billing for your time? Positioning yourself as the go-to person in your space? Productizing your services so you never have to have another awkward sales call or spend hours writing another custom proposal? Book a one-on-one coaching call with me and get answers to these questions and others in the time it takes to get ready for work in the morning.Best of all, you're covered by my 100% satisfaction guarantee. If at the end of the call, you don't feel like it was worth it, just say the word, and I'll refund your purchase in full.To book your one-on-one coaching call, go to: https://jonathanstark.com/callI hope to see you there!

In this episode, Frankie Tortora and Steve Folland have a chat in response to an excellent question from Sophie Greenwood, founder of Ink & Bear.She says:“I recently invested in a rebrand of an online event that I run (Super Seconds Festival) — I worked with an illustrator (Vicky Hughes) and loved the process from start to finish. I loved setting a brief and having someone else be able to do the work a million times better that I could do it. Now I'm slightly addicted to the idea of getting people to support my business! So, my question is... What's the best thing you've ever invested in / outsourced in your business and what's on your wish list for the future?”What would your advice be? Let us know your thoughts using #DIFTKpodcast on Twitter and Instagram, and join in the conversation via the DIFTK Community.• • •This episode is supported by AXA Business InsuranceAt AXA Business Insurance, we know that running any small business is hard work; but making your freelance business a success while looking after the kids can be a real challenge. That's why it's AXA's mission to make your business insurance easy through tailorable cover to suit your freelance business and a 24-hour legal and tax helpline for when you need a tricky question answered.And while we're making insurance easier, you can focus on what matters — making your business a success for your family.Work hard, insure easy.Visit AXA's Business Guardian Angel for more business help and support.AXA Insurance UK Plc is authorised by the Prudential Regulation Authority and regulated by the Financial Conduct Authority and the Prudential Regulation Authority.•••Sophie Greenwood's websiteFrankie Tortora's websiteSteve Folland's websiteSteve's podcast - Being FreelanceDoing It For The Kids websiteDIFTK InstagramDIFTK TwitterSupport DIFTK on Ko-Fi

In this episode, Frankie Tortora and Steve Folland have a chat in response to an excellent question from artist and illustrator Lisa Callaghan.She says:“As an aspiring creative freelancer, what do you recommend as being the first steps towards generating paid work? How do you get those very first paying clients?I'm already on social media, putting my work out into the world (well, to all of my 25 followers!). I've also looked at platforms like UpWork and haven't found any projects that fit — either they're looking for much more experience than I can offer, or I have what they want but they'd like me to do it for less than minimum wage.Help!”What would your advice be? Let us know your thoughts using #DIFTKpodcast on Twitter and Instagram, and join in the conversation via the DIFTK Community.• • •This episode is supported by AXA Business InsuranceAt AXA Business Insurance, we know that running any small business is hard work; but making your freelance business a success while looking after the kids can be a real challenge. That's why it's AXA's mission to make your business insurance easy through tailorable cover to suit your freelance business and a 24-hour legal and tax helpline for when you need a tricky question answered.And while we're making insurance easier, you can focus on what matters — making your business a success for your family.Work hard, insure easy.Visit AXA's Business Guardian Angel for more business help and support.AXA Insurance UK Plc is authorised by the Prudential Regulation Authority and regulated by the Financial Conduct Authority and the Prudential Regulation Authority.•••Lisa Callaghan's InstagramFrankie Tortora's websiteSteve Folland's websiteSteve's podcast - Being FreelanceDoing It For The Kids websiteDIFTK InstagramDIFTK TwitterSupport DIFTK on Ko-Fi

In this episode, Frankie Tortora and Steve Folland have a chat in response to an excellent question from designer Jason Hunt.He says:“I occasionally get the urge to approach a company who I think are doing their brand absolutely no favours and underselling what I know to be brilliant. I'm a designer, so approach this from a branding and design perspective (though of course their copy might also be shit!)This has never worked, and I rarely even entertain it these days, but I have a company that I am dying to approach as they are brilliant at what they do, have a great and friendly reputation and would even probably have money to spend on all these things. I just can't fathom out for the life of me why they haven't upped their game?Has anyone ever done this (successfully) and do you have any tips on how to write the initial approach to not sound like just a mansplaining twat?”What would your advice be? Let us know your thoughts using #DIFTKpodcast on Twitter and Instagram, and join in the conversation via the DIFTK Community.• • •This episode is supported by AXA Business InsuranceAt AXA Business Insurance, we know that running any small business is hard work; but making your freelance business a success while looking after the kids can be a real challenge. That's why it's AXA's mission to make your business insurance easy through tailorable cover to suit your freelance business and a 24-hour legal and tax helpline for when you need a tricky question answered.And while we're making insurance easier, you can focus on what matters — making your business a success for your family.Work hard, insure easy.Visit AXA's Business Guardian Angel for more business help and support.AXA Insurance UK Plc is authorised by the Prudential Regulation Authority and regulated by the Financial Conduct Authority and the Prudential Regulation Authority.•••Jason Hunt's websiteFrankie Tortora's websiteSteve Folland's websiteSteve's podcast - Being FreelanceDoing It For The Kids websiteDIFTK InstagramDIFTK TwitterSupport DIFTK on Ko-Fi

In this episode, Frankie Tortora and Steve Folland have a chat in response to an excellent question from wedding videographer Charlene McNabb.She says:“Hi Frankie and Steve! Happy New Year!I'm sitting here with a notepad. Two actually. One has my 'to-do' list on it that I created before Christmas (check me out for being super organised). The other has what to prioritise over the next 6 weeks, but here's where the overwhelm has come flooding in.When you're running your own business and need to do ALLLLL the things, how do you prioritise stuff when everything is a priority?The list ranges from loads of paid client work (editing and stuff), to updating the website and portfolio (important, as it's key wedding-planning season), to marketing and SWOT analysis, accounts and even stripping the bloody paint off the stairs.I mean, I'm happy to push that last one back, it's been on the back burner for 8 years now anyway, but still…Do you think you can send some wisdom my way please?Thanks, Charlene”What would your advice be? Let us know your thoughts using #DIFTKpodcast on Twitter and Instagram, and join in the conversation via the DIFTK Community.• • •This episode is supported by AXA Business InsuranceAt AXA Business Insurance, we know that running any small business is hard work; but making your freelance business a success while looking after the kids can be a real challenge. That's why it's AXA's mission to make your business insurance easy through tailorable cover to suit your freelance business and a 24-hour legal and tax helpline for when you need a tricky question answered.And while we're making insurance easier, you can focus on what matters — making your business a success for your family.Work hard, insure easy.Visit AXA's Business Guardian Angel for more business help and support.AXA Insurance UK Plc is authorised by the Prudential Regulation Authority and regulated by the Financial Conduct Authority and the Prudential Regulation Authority.•••Charlene McNabb's websiteFrankie Tortora's websiteSteve Folland's websiteSteve's podcast - Being FreelanceDoing It For The Kids websiteDIFTK InstagramDIFTK TwitterSupport DIFTK on Ko-Fi

This week Frankie Tortora and Steve Folland have a chat in response to an excellent question from website lead generation consultant Tom Garfield.He says:"Are awards worth it?Do you get business from them? Is it worth the effort of entering? Do clients care about them? Should we be applying for as many as we can?! It seems like winning awards is a good idea, but I just don't know what to think."What would your advice be? Let us know your thoughts using #DIFTKpodcast on Twitter and Instagram, and join in the conversation via the DIFTK Community.• • •This episode is supported by AXA Business InsuranceAt AXA Business Insurance, we know that running any small business is hard work; but making your freelance business a success while looking after the kids can be a real challenge. That's why it's AXA's mission to make your business insurance easy through tailorable cover to suit your freelance business and a 24-hour legal and tax helpline for when you need a tricky question answered.And while we're making insurance easier, you can focus on what matters — making your business a success for your family.Work hard, insure easy.Visit AXA's Business Guardian Angel for more business help and support. AXA Insurance UK Plc is authorised by the Prudential Regulation Authority and regulated by the Financial Conduct Authority and the Prudential Regulation Authority.•••Tom Garfield's websiteFrankie Tortora's websiteSteve Folland's websiteSteve's podcast - Being FreelanceDoing It For The Kids websiteDIFTK InstagramDIFTK TwitterSupport DIFTK on Ko-Fi

This week me (Frankie Tortora) and him (Steve Folland) have a chat in response to an excellent question from Dex Sorbet AKA Anonymous.They say:“I've worked on two excellent projects for a really high profile client in the past year. When the projects finally went live I dropped them an email to say how great they were and how happy I was to have been a part of them. I got a lovely reply that ended with — ‘please do keep in touch for any future projects that might be up your street.' But I don't quite know what to do with that! How can I turn that vague and polite sign-off into something I can be proactive about? Do I send occasional emails to say “Hi” in the hope that they might have something in the works? Or will that make me seem a bit desperate? How do I maintain a relationship with a client who might have work in the future without being a bit weird?”• • •This episode is supported by AXA Business InsuranceAt AXA Business Insurance, we know that running any small business is hard work; but making your freelance business a success while looking after the kids can be a real challenge. That's why it's AXA's mission to make your business insurance easy through tailorable cover to suit your freelance business and a 24-hour legal and tax helpline for when you need a tricky question answered.And while we're making insurance easier, you can focus on what matters — making your business a success for your family. Work hard, insure easy.Visit AXA's Business Guardian Angel for more business help and support. AXA Insurance UK Plc is authorised by the Prudential Regulation Authority and regulated by the Financial Conduct Authority and the Prudential Regulation Authority.•••Frankie Tortora's websiteSteve Folland's websiteSteve's podcast - Being FreelanceDoing It For The Kids websiteDIFTK InstagramDIFTK TwitterSupport DIFTK on Ko-Fi

This week Frankie Tortora and Steve Folland have a chat in response to an excellent question from brand and visual identity designer Matt Jones.He says:“After years of having a full-time job, I always knew exactly when I would be off for Christmas, when I would be returning and not having to worry about projects or answering emails while I was off.This is my first year as a full-time freelancer approaching Christmas and I'm worried about being able to 'switch-off' over the holiday season…What advice do you have about managing client expectations? When to set an out of office? And any other tips or tricks on how to switch off (not checking emails, editing to-do lists etc)?Oh… and also throw into the mix that it's both my daughters birthdays smack bang in the middle of December!”What would your advice be? Let us know your thoughts using #DIFTKpodcast on Twitter and Instagram, and join in the conversation via the DIFTK Community.• • •This episode is supported by AXA Business InsuranceAt AXA Business Insurance, we know that running any small business is hard work; but making your freelance business a success while looking after the kids can be a real challenge. That's why it's AXA's mission to make your business insurance easy through tailorable cover to suit your freelance business and a 24-hour legal and tax helpline for when you need a tricky question answered.And while we're making insurance easier, you can focus on what matters — making your business a success for your family.Work hard, insure easy.Visit AXA's Business Guardian Angel for more business help and support.AXA Insurance UK Plc is authorised by the Prudential Regulation Authority and regulated by the Financial Conduct Authority and the Prudential Regulation Authority.•••Matt Jones' websiteFrankie Tortora's websiteSteve Folland's websiteSteve's podcast - Being FreelanceDoing It For The Kids websiteDIFTK InstagramDIFTK TwitterSupport DIFTK on Ko-Fi

This week Frankie Tortora and Steve Folland have a chat in response to an excellent question from accountant Claire Owen-Jones.She says:“I have a ‘boring' business and make a ‘boring' podcast. I'm okay with that — I'm an accountant so I am very familiar with DULL — but I struggle with how to market it.Via the podcast I answer common accountancy questions. This week's episode is 7-10 minutes of me explaining payments on account, for example.How can I make the un-fun more memorable and/or appealing?”What would your advice be? Let us know your thoughts using #DIFTKpodcast on Twitter and Instagram, and join in the conversation via the DIFTK Community.• • •This episode is supported by AXA Business InsuranceAt AXA Business Insurance, we know that running any small business is hard work; but making your freelance business a success while looking after the kids can be a real challenge. That's why it's AXA's mission to make your business insurance easy through tailorable cover to suit your freelance business and a 24-hour legal and tax helpline for when you need a tricky question answered.And while we're making insurance easier, you can focus on what matters — making your business a success for your family.Work hard, insure easy.Visit AXA's Business Guardian Angel for more business help and support.AXA Insurance UK Plc is authorised by the Prudential Regulation Authority and regulated by the Financial Conduct Authority and the Prudential Regulation Authority.•••Claire Owen-Jones' websiteFrankie Tortora's websiteSteve Folland's websiteSteve's podcast - Being FreelanceDoing It For The Kids websiteDIFTK InstagramDIFTK TwitterSupport DIFTK on Ko-Fi

This week Frankie Tortora and Steve Folland have a chat in response to a question from writer, editor and proofreader Louisa Ellins.She says…“Dear Frankie and Steve, As much as I love my office in the box room, I keep hearing that co-working spaces are a great place to meet potential clients, and I sometimes miss the office chat from my employed days. I've decided to dip my toe into co-working spaces after the school summer holiday break, and I've found that there's several different options in my town. I wouldn't go full time, but it would be nice to have the option of a hot desk to work from sometimes. What tips do you have for making the most of my time there?  Thanks so much! Louisa”What would your advice be? Let us know your thoughts using #DIFTKpodcast on Twitter and Instagram, and join in the conversation via the DIFTK Community. • • •This episode is supported by AXA Business InsuranceAt AXA Business Insurance, we know that running any small business is hard work; but making your freelance business a success while looking after the kids can be a real challenge. That's why it's AXA's mission to make your business insurance easy through tailorable cover to suit your freelance business and a 24-hour legal and tax helpline for when you need a tricky question answered.And while we're making insurance easier, you can focus on what matters — making your business a success for your family.Work hard, insure easy.Visit AXA's Business Guardian Angel for more business help and support.AXA Insurance UK Plc is authorised by the Prudential Regulation Authority and regulated by the Financial Conduct Authority and the Prudential Regulation Authority. •••Louisa Ellin's websiteFrankie Tortora's websiteSteve Folland's websiteSteve's podcast - Being FreelanceDoing It For The Kids websiteDIFTK InstagramDIFTK TwitterSupport DIFTK on Ko-Fi

This week Frankie Tortora and Steve Folland have a chat in response to a question from Rosie Bakewell aka Anonymous.She says…“I'm working alongside another freelance consultant on a project, and our client is a big corporate organisation.As a mum to a 5-year old daughter, I only work in school hours and during school term-time.However, none of the people I work with have children, so they work 9 to 5 (and more). AND the client has team members in the US who aren't available until 2pm in the UK.A few times I've ended up having to work after 3pm, juggling work with looking after my daughter, because nobody else was available to move an urgent task forward.I've had enough of this, and with the new school year coming, I'd like to set some firm boundaries. But I'm worried that I will seem awkward and unhelpful if I say I'm not available after 3pm??Do you have any tips on setting and maintaining boundaries with clients who don't have children and so don't understand the challenges associated with being a working parent?”What would your advice be? Let us know your thoughts using #DIFTKpodcast on Twitter and Instagram, and join in the conversation via the DIFTK Community.• • •This episode is supported by AXA Business InsuranceAt AXA Business Insurance, we know that running any small business is hard work; but making your freelance business a success while looking after the kids can be a real challenge. That's why it's AXA's mission to make your business insurance easy through tailorable cover to suit your freelance business and a 24-hour legal and tax helpline for when you need a tricky question answered.And while we're making insurance easier, you can focus on what matters — making your business a success for your family.Work hard, insure easy.Visit AXA's Business Guardian Angel for more business help and support.AXA Insurance UK Plc is authorised by the Prudential Regulation Authority and regulated by the Financial Conduct Authority and the Prudential Regulation Authority.•••Frankie Tortora's websiteSteve Folland's websiteSteve's podcast - Being FreelanceDoing It For The Kids websiteDIFTK InstagramDIFTK TwitterSupport DIFTK on Ko-Fi

This week Frankie Tortora and Steve Folland have a chat in response to a question from inclusion and equality consultant Beth Cox. She says: “How do I get into the zone earlier in the day?Pre-child my working hours were 10-7, with my best work done between 3 and 7 - it took me that long to really get into the flow. The thing I've struggled with since having a child at nursery and school is that I tend to hit the elusive 'flow' approximately 20 minutes before I have to pick up my child. Pre-child I could have leant into it and created my best work, but now I have to drop what I'm doing and take another day to get back into that zone again (if at all).When I mentioned this in the DIFTK community, Tori Beat felt the same. She said:"I get so frustrated when I feel like I'm about to have a mild epiphany and then POW, it's pick up time.It's akin to when one of those magicians whips a tablecloth from underneath a beautifully laid table but, instead of leaving everything in miraculous good order, EVERYTHING IS SMASHED ALL OVER THE FLOOR. And I've got to tidy up."It is so frustrating, and I just don't know how to change it. Even now, I've got a clear day for focused work but it's only 10am and I'm clearly very distracted.My son goes to a childminder two days a week after school so I do have two 'long' days, but even then the flow doesn't happen until about 4pm (I rarely get it on the short days). I'm a solo parent so can't take turns with a partner to just work through, and rarely get child-free time other than that I pay for, which doesn't help. HELP. How can I take less time to get in the zone of doing my best work?” What would your advice be? Let us know your thoughts using #DIFTKpodcast on Twitter and Instagram, and join in the conversation via the DIFTK Community.•••Download a DIFTK Bingo cardPlay DIFTK Bingo onlineBeth Cox's websiteFrankie Tortora's websiteSteve Folland's websiteSteve's podcast - Being FreelanceDoing It For The Kids websiteDIFTK InstagramDIFTK TwitterSupport DIFTK on Ko-Fi

Over 10 years ago Frankie crowd funded her training as a graphic designer. It's fair to say she doesn't look at problems the same way everyone does.And when pregnancy took her flourishing freelance career a few steps back, when she felt isolated amongst parents with full-time jobs, she didn't settle. She searched. She got creative.As her first child was born, so was ‘Doing It For The Kids'. Through a blog, Instagram, award-winning podcast and thriving community, she's forged a second family of freelancers juggling kids & business.Finding her feet, her people, her niche.And along the way, finding a co-mentor in Steve Folland (yep, of Being Freelance).Together, they took to figuring out how to run their ridiculously big side projects around everything else.You'll find full show notes and transcript for this episode at beingfreelance.com This episode is sponsored by Pension Bee.The flexible pension for the self-employed.Get set up in minutes and then get back to business.Start saving for a future beyond being freelance. Download the app or head to PensionBee.comPensionBee is authorised and regulated by the Financial Conduct Authority.With investments your capital is at risk. This episode is sponsored by Ahrefs.Time to boost your search rankings with Ahrefs Webmaster Tools - and it's FREE! If the idea of getting Google to work for you sounds confusing, Ahrefs also offers helpful tutorials on Search Engine Optimization.Want to get your freelance site more search traffic?Visit ahrefs.com/webmaster-tools and get this free tool working for you today.  New to freelancing? The Being Freelance course is made for you!Steve's rolled up everything he's learnt from over 6 years of conversations with more than 250 freelancers.There's no ‘one way' to be a successful freelancer, but this course will help you avoid the many mistakes that most of us make. Learn from our experiences.Find out more about the course. FREELANCER MERCHGet Being Freelance merchandise at beingfreelance.com/shopLooking to learn from and connect with other freelancers? Check out the website beingfreelance.com, and be part of the Being Freelance Community!Like VIDEO? - Check out the Being Freelance vlog - YouTube.com/SteveFolland