Podcast appearances and mentions of andy wood

Guest Preacher, Andy Wood

Andy Wood – Letter from New Jersey...on En Camino with TRE's Kit Hogg

Superbru founder and CEO Andy Wood joins the BizNews Rugby Show to share the fascinating origin story of the sports prediction platform that has taken South Africa by storm. What started as a friendly Super 12 prediction game in a shared house in London evolved into a global community of sports enthusiasts.

Andy Wood – Letter from New Jersey – Donald Trump Inauguration...with TRE's Kit Hogg

All About M.E. PODCAST Welcome to the "All About M.E. Podcast ," the podcast where music meets the...Listen on: Apple Podcasts SpotifySupport the show

TRE's Kit Hogg – En Camino with Andy Wood – Letter from New Jersey – USA Elections 2024

Moss, Frawls and Burkey join us to review the 8th round of AIL action, and preview the first of the back-to-backs. Moss fills us in on alot of controversy in Ace of Clubs, sponsored by Cahill Apparel. Andy Wood, Conor Kelly & Paul Gorman join Frawls from Clontarf FC after their big win in Hinch last time out. Powered by Energia #PositiveEnergy

Andy Wood preaches on Philippians 1

“Sometimes we go way beyond what God wants us to do. And that's what leads to burnout…It's working beyond where God wants you to work, where now it's human effort, not His effort in you.” Meet Filipe Santos, Lead Pastor of Echo.Church. In today's episode, Filipe opens up about the initial fear of taking on leadership, the spiritual and emotional challenges of stepping into Andy Wood's shoes, and how his Enneagram 2 wiring shaped his collaborative leadership style. From reshaping his identity as a leader to focusing on spiritual health, Filipe provides a transparent look at the personal and professional growth that has guided him through this significant transition. Welcome to Episode 121 of the Leaders in Living Rooms Podcast with Sean Morgan.

Possibly the best guitarist you haven't heard yet. 

Welcome to the Nothing Shocking Podcast 2.0 episode 271 with our guest Bruce Fairweather of the Love Battery (Low Bar Ramblers, Green River, Mother Love Bone, Deranged Diction, The Incompetents, Blind Horse).  We discuss his bluegrass band the Low Bar Ramblers and rejoining Love Battery for a show,  Nov 10 at the Freakout Festival in Seattle. We also discuss his musical contributions to the Seattle sound: Love Battery, Mother Love Bone, and Green River, and more!   For more information visit:  https://www.facebook.com/p/Low-Bar-Ramblers-100066406192045/?_rdr https://www.facebook.com/p/Love-Battery-100063468314848/ https://greenriver.bandcamp.com/music   Wild Powwers (Bruce contributes to the track Pagent on 2021 album What You Wanted)  https://www.wildpowwers.com   Please like our Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/nothingshockingpodcast/  Follow us on twitter at  https://twitter.com/hashtag/noshockpod.   Libsyn website: https://nothingshocking.libsyn.com For more info on the Hong Kong Sleepover: https://thehongkongsleepover.bandcamp.com Help support the podcast and record stores by shopping at Ragged Records. http://www.raggedrecords.org    Nothing Shocking Podcast Best of 2024 Apple Playlist: https://music.apple.com/us/playlist/nothing-shocking-podcast-2024/pl.u-NP2Ws7135YR

Shred-meister and Eric Johnson expert Andy Wood joins us to talk about EJ's best tracks, albums, and more. Whether you're a fellow expert or don't know where to start, Andy's got you covered, from studio albums to live tracks. Come with questions, leave with homework!This episode brought to you by Two-Rock Amplifiers: https://www.two-rock.com/Follow Nick: https://www.instagram.com/nickmillevoiFollow Jason: https://www.instagram.com/jasonshadrickGet at us: 100guitarists@premierguitar.comCall/Text: 319-423-9734Podcast powered by Sweetwater. Get your podcast set up here! - https://sweetwater.sjv.io/75rE0dSubscribe to the podcast:Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0aXdYIDOmS8KtZaZGNazVb?si=c63d98737a6146afApple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/100-guitarists/id1746527331

Andy Wood shares insights two years into his journey as the Lead Pastor at Saddleback Church, highlighting the challenges and progress made during this leadership transition. We're hitting topics like organizational change, leadership dynamics, and the complexities of stepping into a long-established ministry. Welcome to Episode 115 of the Leaders in Living Rooms Podcast with Sean Morgan.

Rhett and Zach are joined on this Dipped In Tone by country and bluegrass aficionado Andy Wood. Wood grew up in Knoxville with Appalachian bluegrass musics shaping his view of the world, and even though he's celebrated for his guitar playing, he reveals that he didn't pick up an electric until he was 17.Mandolin was his home turf, where lightning-quick alternate picking was the norm rather than a shredding strategy—there's no “nuclear arms race of chops” in bluegrass, Wood reveals. The real key to playing fast? Simply learning songs. Because of the different approaches, Wood shares how to spot an electric guitar player who started on bluegrass. Wondering where to start with American roots music? Wood has you covered there, too.When he finally got around to guitar, Wood studied the playing of Nashville session weapons like Brent Mason alongside players like John Petrucci. Now, Wood throws an annual four-day retreat for guitar players called the Woodshed Guitar Experience, where you can learn from some of music's greatest modern players.Plus, learn about how Andy catches great electric tones in the studio, and stayed tuned for his new solo record, Charisma, which dropped on August 9.Check out Andy's new album: https://www.andywoodmusic.com/Get 10% off your order at http://stewmac.com/dippedintoneSubscribe, like, and leave us a commentSign up on our mailing list: http://eepurl.com/iaCee5Support us on Patreon for access to our discord server and other perks! https://www.patreon.com/dippedintoneMERCH: https://teespring.com/stores/dipped-in-toneFollow us on Instagram: https://instagram.com/dippedintone Dipped in Tone is:Rhett Shull https://www.rhettshull.com/Zach Broyles / Mythos Pedals https://mythospedals.comPremier Guitar https://www.premierguitar.com/

Psalm 41 - Rev. Andy Wood

Brian, Blake, and Richard are back for Episode 519 of the Chasing Tone Podcast Ai has finally gone to far and we have an Ai version of Brian and it causes some emotional distress. Brian also has a rubber device. Richard tells us about his first experience with IRs and IEMs in a band practice scenario. It was a a partial success. Richard also has purchased new gear, has learned some important new lessons, and Brian continues to hellishly rebuke him. We've had some really interesting suggestions for 1980's themed shredding guitars and Richard talks about some of the candidates and it provokes reactions from Brian. Brian then makes some gangland confessions. There's a new Fender artist Telecaster and it has caught the guys' attention so they talk about it before revealing some interesting statistical facts about Brian;'s pedalbuilding career.  What do you think about companies that make completely identical pedals to the original they're based on? There was a release this week that was close to home and the guys all have reactions. David Gilmour released a new track and Richard is a big fan. Take a shot. The guys had a message from the listeners about modern Country music and have some suggestions for artists to listen to. The Karate Kid, Westone, Redline BMX, Big Mick, Waylon Jennings, Andy Wood...it's all in this week's Chasing Tone!Thanks to all our supporters - you are awesome!We are on Patreon now too!Support the show (https://www.patreon.com/chasingtonepodcast)Awesome Course, Merch and DIY mods:https://www.guitarpedalcourse.com/https://modyourownpedal.com/Find us at:https://www.wamplerpedals.com/https://www.instagram.com/WamplerPedals/https://www.facebook.com/groups/wamplerfanpage/Youtube:https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCdVrg4Wl3vjIxonABn6RfWwContact us at: podcast@wamplerpedals.comSupport the Show.

Guest preacher Andy Wood preaches on Ecclesiastes 8:1-9:12

Live from The Lab at the Hollywood Improv, Doug welcomes Sean Jordan, Samm Levine and Andy Wood to the show.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Send us a Text Message.Today I'm talking with one of the finest up and coming blues players - Seth RosenbloomCritics have affirmed the fact that Seth knows of what he speaks. Rock & Blues Muse proclaimed, “The future of blues is in very capable hands.” Living Blues Magazine echoed those sentiments by declaring, “Rosenbloom's ready to assume the mantle of a true electric blues champion,” Blues Blast Magazine concurred, saying, “Seth Rosenbloom is a guitar player's guitar player. His ceiling is unlimited.”To get your hands on THE TRIAD METHOD: https://thebluesguitarshow.com/product/the-triad-method/Become a Blues Guitar Show Member: https://www.buzzsprout.com/950998/subscribeHead over to www.thebluesguitarshow.com to subscribe to the mailing listIf you find this stuff useful leave me a review on Spotify or Apple PodcastsShoot me a question to cover in the upcoming episodes by emailing ben@thebluesguitarshow.comBecome a plus member now: https://www.buzzsprout.com/950998/subscribe Download the Triad Method: https://thebluesguitarshow.com/the-triad-method/Support the Show.

This week comedian and certified desert guy Andy Wood (Probably Science Podcast) is back on the podcast to talk about no butt November, playing a plastic trombone, and his amazing comedy, science and stargazing event To 29 and Beyond!Buy your tickets for To 29 And Beyond to see comedy, scientists, and star gazing on June 8 & 9! YOU DON'T WANNA MISS IT!!!You can get Rain Rain for free on the Apple App Store or Google Play. Just search for "Rain Rain" and get ready to sleep great!

The mail is here, and with it comes the ABCs of NNF! Then, Andy explains how he lost on Jeopardy!To hear the full episode, head over to nevernotfunny.com and sign up for a Platinum subscription. Plans start at $6/month and include a second full episode every week, video of every episode, plus a monthly bonus episode. More perks, like access to our full back catalog, an exclusive T-shirt, a guest photo book and more are also available. Sign up today!Also, don't forget to tune into PARDCAST-A-THON 2024 on May 25th from 3pm-Midnight PDT at pardcastathon.com! 25 hilarious guests in 9 hours -- music, laughs, games, auctions, all in support of Smile Train.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Illuminati the Card Game - Is this just the real Illuminati telling us what they are going to do? Made in the early 80s - Did it make predictions? Are there still some predictions left? Is it distracting us from the real Illuminati? Or is it just a game... Check out Andy's podcast "Probably Science"  https://www.probablyscience.com/ If you are in LA ? Joshua Tree area - don't miss this stargazing crazy comedy event in 29 Palms that Andy is producing and performing in called "To 29 and Beyond". Check it out at https://www.to29andbeyond.com/ We stream live video every sunday at 4 pm pacific only at www.SchrabHomeVideo.com visit RealLifeSciFi.show  Support us and get more content at Patreon.com/reallifescifi we exist because of you. hit us up at WadeandWilly@gmail.com Thank you for listening :)

Luke 8:40-56 - Rev. Andy Wood

In this episode, Shawn and Craig delve into two remarkable music collections that are will appeal to fans of classic and alternative rock alike. Shawn spotlights the captivating box set from Vinyl Me, Please, "The Story of Waylon Jennings." This comprehensive collection celebrates the legendary outlaw country icon, featuring meticulously curated albums, rare tracks, and insightful liner notes that paint a vivid picture of Waylon's illustrious career. Shawn explores the significance of this box set, discussing its standout tracks and the timeless appeal of Jennings' rebellious spirit and groundbreaking music.Meanwhile, Craig shines a light on the re-issue of Brad's seminal album, "Shame." Originally released in 1993, this album is a cornerstone of the Seattle alternative rock scene. Craig examines the impact of "Shame" on the genre, highlighting its raw emotion, powerful lyrics, and the exceptional collaboration of its band members, including Pearl Jam's Stone Gossard. With this re-issue, new and longtime fans can rediscover Brad's unique sound and the enduring relevance of "Shame" in today's musical landscape. Tune in for an in-depth discussion filled with nostalgia, admiration, and fresh insights into these two essential collections.

You know, that big thing up there.Guest:Andy Wood (X @andytwood, IG @andytwood)Support the show!Join the All Fantasy Everything Patreon for ad-free episodes, mailbags, and video pre-rolls.Advertise on AFE!Advertise on All Fantasy Everything via Gumball.fm.Follow the Good Vibes Gang on social media:Ian Karmel (X @IanKarmel, IG @IanKarmel)Sean Jordan (X @SeanSJordan, IG @SeancougarmelonJordan)David Gborie (IG @Coolguyjokes87)Isaac K. Lee (X @IsaacKLee, IG @IsaacKLee)See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

The Dark Matter tour keeps trucking along as we now have four shows under our belt and are looking forward to a big weekend in Las Vegas where anything can happen! To get you even more excited for that, this week's episode goes back to the Vegas show during the mighty 2003 Riot Act tour! Coming off of an absolutely legendary performance for their 10th anniversary show in 2000, this crowd came in with a ton of excitement and never let down all night. This show will feature two guests who are vital to the existence of Pearl Jam - Ann and Nancy Wilson of Heart. They'll join the band for a fun rendition of Rockin' In The Free World, but before that we'll get into a conversation about why if it wasn't for Nancy, Pearl Jam may not have been able to fund Ten following the death of Andy Wood. It's a story that doesn't get told often and it never got a mention in PJ20, but we'll share how it all went down for you here in the episode. This show should be recognized as a Mike McCready explosion! Mike was on fire the entire night putting on a clinic during such songs as Even Flow, Go, Love Boat Captain, Breath, Crazy Mary, Fuckin' Up and that just scratches the surface. Javier will join us for two segments to gush over the tone of Even Flow and Crazy Mary for this one! Visit the Concertpedia for write ups on every show this tour - http://liveon4legs.com Contact the Show - liveon4legspodcast@gmail.com Donate to the Show to listen to instant reaction episodes after every show this tour - http://patreon.com/liveon4legs

Luke 8:1-15 - Rev. Andy Wood

Guest Bios Show Transcript Everything rises or falls on leadership. Ever heard that line? Think about what it means when applied to a pastor's role in a church. What about the priesthood of all believers? And where is Jesus in that equation? In this edition of The Roys Report, veteran church planter and pastor, Lance Ford, challenges popular views of leadership, showing how they're the opposite of what Scripture teaches. In the Body of Christ, the pastor is not the head; Jesus is! In 2012, Lance Ford's landmark work UnLeader exposed how unbiblical models of leadership have become an obsession in the church. Now The Atlas Factor, which is about shifting leadership onto the shoulders of Jesus, serves as a sequel to that book. One of the most eye-opening truths of The Atlas Factor is that leadership, when presented as a key to organizational success, is a relatively new concept. The multi-billion-dollar industry built around teaching and training people in leadership—in both the corporate world and the church—has emerged only within the past 40 to 50 years. And this model of leadership didn't come from Scripture; it came from the world. Lance was featured in a recent podcast with his message from the Restore Conference titled, “It's the System, Stupid.” If you caught that message, then you heard a preview of what Lance and Julie delve into in-depth in this podcast. Lance's prophetic message is a clarion call to the church to return to Jesus' way of doing things—or continue to face disastrous consequences. Guests Lance Ford Lance Ford is an author, church planter, coach, and consultant who has designed unique training systems currently being used by networks, seminaries, and leaders throughout the world. He has written several books including The Atlas Factor, UnLeader, The Missional Quest, and The Starfish and the Spirit. Lance holds a master's degree in Global Leadership from Fuller Theological Seminary. Learn more at LanceFordBooks.com. Show Transcript SPEAKERSLANCE FORD, Julie Roys Julie Roys  00:04Everything rises or falls on leadership. Ever heard that line? Certainly, great leaders can make a big difference in the success of an organization. But think about what that line applied to the church really means. Does everything rise or fall on the pastor? What about the priesthood of all believers? What about the body of Christ, where each member plays a vital role? And most importantly, what about Jesus? Welcome to The Roys Report, a podcast dedicated to reporting the truth and restoring the church. I’m Julie Roys, and joining me today is Lance Ford, who spent decades planting and pastoring churches. And recently we published his talk from the RESTORE conference where he argued that so many of the scandals and issues that we see in the church today stem from our toxic model of leadership. Well, today you’re in for a treat, because Lance is joining me to discuss his new book, The Atlas Factor. And this book eviscerates the conventional wisdom that leadership is everything. In fact, one of the most eye-opening things I learned in this book is that leadership is a relatively new concept. Sure, there have always been people who lead and manage organizations. But leadership as this thing that’s crucial to the success of organizations is relatively new. And certainly, the industry that’s been built around teaching and training people in leadership in both the corporate world and the church is super new, like within the past 40 to 50 years. But I think the pressing question, especially in the church concerns whether these notions of leadership we’re training pastors to follow are actually biblical. And if they’re not, what’s the alternative? We’ll dig into those questions in just a minute.   Julie Roys  01:46 But first, I’d like to thank the sponsors of this podcast, Judson University and Marquardt of Barrington. If you’re looking for a top ranked Christian University, providing a caring community and an excellent college experience, Judson University is for you. Judson is located on 90 acres, just 40 miles west of Chicago in Elgin, Illinois. The school offers more than 60 majors, great leadership opportunities, and strong financial aid. Plus, you can take classes online as well as in person. Judson University is shaping lives that shaped the world. For more information, just go to JUDSONU.EDU Also, if you’re looking for a quality new or used car, I highly recommend my friends at Marquardt of Barrington. Marquardt is a Buick GMC dealership where you can expect honesty, integrity, and transparency. That’s because the owners there Dan and Kurt Marquardt, are men of integrity, to check them out, just go to BUYACAR123.COM.   Julie Roys  02:49 Well, again, joining me is Lance Ford, a church planter, coach, and consultant who spent decades pastoring and planting churches. And out of that experience and biblical study, he’s designed unique training systems that are being used by seminaries, church networks, and leaders throughout the world. Lance is also the author of several books, including one of my favorites called Unleader. This book exposes the obsession in the church to unbiblical models of leadership. It’s fantastic and eye opening. And Lance’s latest book, The Atlas Factor, is essentially a sequel to Unleader, and it’s quickly become one of my favorites as well. So, Lance, thanks so much for joining me. I’m really, really looking forward to our discussion.   LANCE FORD  03:29 It’s always one of my favorite things to do is visit with you, Julie.   Julie Roys  03:32 I’m glad to hear that. And I should mention that you also are a recent addition to The Roys Report board. So, we’re pretty excited about that. But I know you spoke at RESTORE and I heard from so so many people, but our board as well, just saying, hey, we need to get this guy on our board. So just really, really glad for all the wisdom that you’re going to bring to the board. So, thanks for being willing to do that.   LANCE FORD  03:55 Well, it’s a huge honor to be invited to be a part of y’all. The boardroom didn’t get smarter because I showed up it probably got a little dumber When I joined.   Julie Roys  04:04 I do not believe that. But as I mentioned, you spoke at RESTORE and gave a great talk on toxic leadership and  our obsession with it and probably had the best line of the entire conference I have to say, which became the title of the podcast that we put out with your talk, which is, It’s the System, Stupid! Just briefly for those who didn’t hear your talk, which if you didn’t hear Lance’s talk, it’s the System, Stupid!, I think it was like back in mid-December, we published that. Go back and listen to his talk. It is so so good. But talk about what you meant by that, that it’s the system stupid.   LANCE FORD  04:41 I think probably Julie one day I was probably somewhere along the midst of listening to The Rise and Fall of Mars Hill  podcast, and I was just thinking, they just keep talking about symptoms, symptoms. They never get to the solution, and I just said it out loud. It’s the system stupid. And it reminded me, James Carville’s deal with Clinton. It’s the economy stupid. So that’s kind of where that came from is that all these problems that we have are downstream from a messed-up system. And you can’t just deal with the symptoms and try to throw drugs at the symptoms. You have to bandage the wounds, pouring the oil on the wine, that’s necessary to say the least. Well, let’s do some preventative medicine. Let’s go back to the headwaters of this thing and try to nip some of this stuff in the bud. And it just seems that the answer almost every time, especially internally, from the groups that are in the midst of these falls and these breakdowns in leadership, usually their answer is, well, we just need better accountability. But it’s the same type of what they call accountability. So rare is it that when you hear a group say, well, we need new leadership, they don’t mean they need new leadership systems. They mean, we need a new hero leader.   Julie Roys  06:05 Yeah. Oh, exactly. I mean, I remember when Rick Warren was stepping down. And of course, there’s all sorts of issues with Andy Wood, who was picked as his successor. And we’ve published many articles on how he apparently is a horribly abusive leader. But he’s now in that position. And when I heard the language, though, it was like we need to find a successor for Rick. And I thought, really, who can be the successor to Rick Warren, and who is capable of being in a position over so many churches and having so many people following you? And I sit there and wonder, because there’s this idea that there’s going to be this really good, noble, full of integrity leader that can handle those kinds of pressures. And I sit there, and I look at that, and I’m like, I don’t know that I can handle that. That’s an awful lot to shoulder. And I think that really is at the root of what you’re talking about in this book, The Atlas Factor. The metaphor is great of you know, Atlas with the weight of the world on his shoulders. But essentially, that’s what we’ve set up leaders to be, to be Atlas, to do the impossible, and then we’re surprised when they fail. Here’s a quote that’s very early in your book from the 21 Irrefutable Laws of Leadership, they’re irrefutable.   LANCE FORD  07:15 Be careful, Julie.   Julie Roys  07:17 But the 21 Irrefutable Laws of Leadership is this quote from LeRoy Eims, “a leader is one who sees more than others see, who sees further than others see, and who sees before others do.” And then there’s the quote that I said at the beginning of the podcast, that “everything rises or falls on leadership.” It’s almost like we have made these men into gods; talk about that whole dynamic and what it’s doing to pastors.   LANCE FORD  07:47 The thing about the typical the prevailing leadership system in the overwhelming majority of churches today, it puts a weight up on the senior, and I might as well just say senior guy, cuz 99% of them are guys. But there are a few women in senior leadership positions, but just the job description, and then even the unwritten expectations that are placed upon them. I know I was a pastor for well over 20 years and was a church planter and a senior pastor for 10 years. So, if you just look at the job description, you’re basically the CEO. In fact, some of them call themselves CEOs, you’re the face of the church, the organization, you’re the top fundraiser, you are the top theologian, you’re supposed to be a marriage expert, a family expert, a child rearer. I mean, just go on and on and by the way, you need to give 45 to 50 fantastic talks a year too. No one’s built for that. And certainly when you go to the New Testament of any description of any type of leadership in the church, you don’t see that. In fact, Paul mentioned several times that he wasn’t even a good speaker. So, it’s a burden. And so that created the metaphor for The Atlas Factor for the book. It’s the weight of the world. It’s like Atlas, and a lot of people look at Atlas and they go, he was this hero. No, that was a punishment, Zeus gave him the punishment of having to hold the weight of the world on his shoulders. It’s out of order. It’s a misalignment. So, a lot of these pastors are victims too; Even the ones that don’t abuse, they’re being abused by this system of expectations, this fault system of leadership as it’s been cast upon them. And then of course, the ones as you said, that are narcissistic, have the tendencies, then they take that power, and then they become the abusers. And basically, then they take that weight, and they place it up on the shoulders of their staff or the volunteers and church members, and then they crush others with that weight.   Julie Roys  09:49 I have heard that so much from these churches where there is this big celebrity pastor, and they have to put on the big show and it’s really impossible to do. I mean, I have I always said, When my husband and I used to be youth pastors and we always said, The World entertains better than we do. So, if you want to be entertained, like go see a movie, go to all those things, but in the church, we’re gonna focus on worship and prayer and discipleship and Bible study. That’s what we do. But I think we’ve gotten away from that. And we’ve certainly gotten to this model where man we have to put on the show every week, and it’s crushing. And the staffs are getting crushed too. You quote this in your book that there’s a 2021 Barna study, 38% of pastors say they’ve considered quitting within the past year. And then if you look at pastors who are just 45 or younger, that jumps to 46%. So, I mean, if this plays out, we’re looking at a crisis in the church, we’re not going to have pastors willing to take these jobs.   LANCE FORD  10:45 Yeah well, there’s some stats that came out, I forget if it was Barna or who it was a couple of weeks ago. But it said that right now, currently, between four and 5000 pastors a month, are leaving the ministry. So you’re talking about a huge under the watermark in the boat of the church right now. So not only are people leaving the church, but you’ve got pastors leaving the church. So, it is a crisis, as you said.   Julie Roys  11:09 Although, I have to say at the same time, like I’m in this small house church, and he said recently, if we get a pastor, I’m gone. I’m gone. I mean, I think we’re a unique group, because there’s some pretty highly competent, mature Christians in there. So, you kind of have more leaders than you know what to do with. So, God help the pastor that would come in and try to pastor that. But yeah, I think there is sort of a suspicion about pastors. But really, because I think exactly what you’re talking about in this book is that we have merged this idea of leadership that really is worldly based with, we’ve kind of baptized it in Christian lingo. So that now so many people think that leadership, the way it’s being taught, you know, by people who claim they’re Christian, so that, you know, this must be biblical, is biblical. But leadership, it’s not really talked about very much in Scripture is it?   LANCE FORD  12:03 It’s not that there’s not leaders in Scripture, there’s leaders all throughout Scripture, but the leadership system as we know it today, in fact, leader or leadership is not even mentioned. It’s like, a half a dozen times in the entire New Testament. And it’s not spoken favorably, most of those times. But if you really get down to it, and I do try to make a delineation between attorney leader in leadership, because it’s become such a in our nomenclature today, but it’s a real new term. I’ve said that before some well-known authors that immediately react, and just like push back. Okay, first off, definitely, there’s been leadership forever. And it’s been studied. I mean, the Chinese going back to the 1300s. I mean, you can look at Plato and Machiavelli and others that studied leadership, but not leadership as we know it today. And what got me on this was just doing some research on it. And I just got curious one day and thought, Well, I’m gonna look up the word leadership. And I went to my old 1955 Oxford Dictionary, which is probably the best because it gives the evolution of words. And it wasn’t even defined there. I couldn’t even find the term and a definition, I finally found at one time in about a seven- or eight-word definition for the word leader, but then it didn’t even define leadership. That pushed me back further, you start reverse engineering, you know, how you are doing research, and I found the 1915 Webster dictionary. The word leadership was not even in there. And that really took me down a rabbit hole of finding out after just doing a couple of years of research, in searching even secular scholars that had done research on the word leadership and come to find out you couldn’t even find the word leadership until the mid-19th century. So, you’re not finding publications anywhere that mentioned it until the early 1900s. Even the term. Now the reason I say that, and it should stand out to us as a stark contrast, because leadership is an $87 billion dollar industry today. 87 billion, I mean, that’s more than entertainment, media and everything put together. So, it’s a huge thing that’s evolved over the last 100 years. And it didn’t even really start entering in the church, which is a gigantic thing in the church now, it didn’t even start entering into the church until I would say the 1970s. Because you can’t even find a dozen books with the term leadership in the title, even in the 1960s. So, it’s a really new thing. And now, and I say it as its defined, because you could interchange the word management and you’d be just fine because that’s really what it is. It’s management theory. It goes back to Peter Drucker 1966, his famous book, The Effective Executive. There were some significant church growth leaders took that book, they parlayed it into the Church Growth Movement because some leaders such as Robert Schuller, for instance, with Crystal Cathedral, Robert Schuller doesn’t get enough if you want to call it credit or blame for really being the biggest shaper of what we have today. And my research bears this out. You can track Bill Hybels in Willow Creek, they go right back to Schuler, although they scrubbed a lot of that from their history, because Schuler became so controversial that they just didn’t want to be associated with him. Rick Warren was a disciple of Schuler. Schuler was a disciple of Norman Vincent Peale. That’s where he got all of his positive thinking and everything. But then all of them went to Peter Drucker to get the management systems. And then Bob Buford, who created Leadership Network, which a lot of people, the listeners would say, I’ve never heard of a guy named Bob Buford. Well, he was way behind the scenes. But he was hugely shaping of what we have today with Leadership Network and funded and raised up and platformed and helped develop a lot of those leaders such as Hybels and Warren and others. And then a lot of the newer leaders that lead these prevailing, what I call Neo attractional churches today, their heritage, the family tree goes straight back to Peter Drucker and these management systems. And these management systems just conflict with what Jesus said Matthew 20, of the Gentiles, or the world systems; it’s a metaphor, he where if he was in the Old Testament would have said, The Babylonians or the Egyptians. But when he says the Gentiles practice dominating one another, or lorded over one another, it will not be this way among you. But the first will be last, the greatest will be the servant, which basically was pushing back against power, and against dominating one another in any system in his kingdom. But that’s the very thing that we have today. And it goes right back to management systems that we imported straight into the church.   Julie Roys  17:06 And you alluded to this, that we don’t see lead or leader much in Scripture. You write, and this was in Unleader as well, and this just blew me away, that we see the word disciple 260 times, as opposed to leader. Leader, I think is mentioned like seven times. So, it’s a 37:1 ratio. We used to think of the pastor as the shepherd. Even when I was a kid, that was really the prevailing metaphor was that our pastor was the shepherd, that changed. And I remember even when I was at Willow Creek because my husband and I spent several years there. And I just remember Hybels talking about how they had found shepherds to do the shepherding within the church, because he didn’t do it. It was kind of like, yeah, they have been put in as pastors, but they’re really more Shepherd. So, we’re putting them over here to let them Shepherd. Meanwhile, I’ll do the pastor thing, which is being the great orator and charismatic leader, and all that. And that became our model for pastor and then of course, Bill Hybels brought in so many worldly leadership. In fact, if you go and read about the Global Leadership Summit, like I’ve read some of the articles that were published in secular publications saying, Man, this is like the best business school that’s out there, like, I know, it’s at a church, but this is like, this is a great business school. Everybody in business, whether you’re a Christian or not, whatever you profess, just go to this really good. And we love that as Christians, because we constantly were seeking the world’s affirmation, which is really sad. Like we wanted that credibility in the church. So again, you’re putting language into things I felt for so long, and that the research in your book, you even go back farther, and I found some of this stuff that gave birth to our modern leadership movement was fascinating. And you start with 1840s, 1900, around there with this thing called Great Man theory. Describe what this is, and how it’s impacted our view of leadership today.   LANCE FORD  19:01 Great Man theory was the prevailing ideology of where great leaders came from. That was the term that they used. And so, when you go back and you look at even, I was able to even trace back and find some of the speaking topics for some conventions, conferences that were taking place back in the 1920s and 1930s. And so Great Man theory was basically the idea that leaders are born, they’re not made. And so, you’re gonna think about Teddy Roosevelt, you’re gonna think about Abraham Lincoln, Napoleon, people like this, that just have this ability to lead, and you can’t make it. So that that would that would mean there’s a real limitation if you don’t happen to have a great man walk into the room, you know. So, then they started studying the traits of the great man and that about 20 years after Great Man theory was the prevailing theory. Then by the 1930s, 1940s was what was called Trait Theory, and they basically were studying the traits of the great man and saying, Well, maybe it’s possible that we can teach these traits, we can mimic these traits, and we can actually make great leaders. That’s how it started evolving. Then there became for a while it became what was called Group theory, which they said, well, leadership really is an effect upon a group of people. They actually started getting a little closer to what was right about what  I would call leadership, that leadership is a fruit product. It’s not a position, I would say a faithfully following Jesus as a servant. But then they moved away from the group theory, and that really went back into a person at the top. And then Management theory, by the 1950s, to corporate America, and the Industrial Revolution had matured and was getting old by that time. By that time, it really became Management theory. And then we replaced it with the word leadership. And like you said, earlier, Julie, I was just reflecting a while back and thinking, you know, when I was growing up, if you walked into a Denny’s, there were no Starbucks back then. So, if you walk through a breakfast place, and let’s say that there was and we used to have in small towns, they would call it the Ministerial Alliance. And pastors of local churches that actually liked each other, and they get together about once a month. So if you were to see a group of those guys sitting around, have a breakfast together, I say, 1980. I’ll guarantee you; the word leader and leadership would not even been uttered at that table while they’re having breakfast. It wouldn’t even come into their mind. They might have called themselves pastors or shepherds, they probably call themselves ministers. And certainly, the people from the local community sitting around would look over and said, Oh, yeah, that’s the ministers. They wouldn’t say that’s the leaders. That’s the leaders of the faith community. It just wasn’t in their thinking, right? Because the word Minister means servant, but it’s washed out today. And so, I mean, who wants to be a servant? You want to be a leader. This was the problem with the disciples of Jesus, and they watched him be a servant, and he still had to, you know, thump upside of the head, more than one occasion.   Julie Roys  22:20 I want to read a section of your book because I think it really crystallizes the moment that we’re living in right now. You write, “The industrial leadership approach to church leadership caused us to abandon the understanding of the church as a body and turn to a view of the church as a machine. Our language and titles changed as we veered away from the code of the New Testament in Jesus. It became normal to hear terms and titles such as strategic initiative, ROI, return on investment scale, engineering, management, leader, executive, superior, replace biblical language, such as steward, disciple, co-laborers, servant, minister, elder, brothers and sisters, et cetera. Noncompetes, and NDAs, and  HR became leverage points in place of loving your brother, blessing those you believed were your enemy and letting your Yes be Yes and your No be No.” Bingo. Right there. I mean, I talk a lot about the Evangelical industrial complex. And of course, that gets into the money and everything that’s involved. But it’s also once you become a corporation, you’ve got to manage that image. And that is the situation that we’re in. I’m guessing some people who have been really, really schooled in this, because I mean, leadership is everywhere, right? I mean, from the time kids are like teenagers, even maybe younger, in our church, we’re training them to be leaders. But it does beg the question, and I’m sure people are wondering right now is if everything doesn’t rise or fall on leadership, and what does it rise or fall on?   LANCE FORD  23:47 I believe it rises or falls on the headship of Jesus. And I believe that’s where we land on the problem of what’s happened in the church. That’s the other part of the metaphor for this book, The Atlas Factor was. I had written something one day, about three years ago on Facebook or X, it was Twitter then; we had the pretty little blue bird. But I just said something about leadership in the church being misaligned with the headship of Jesus, and the body. Had a buddy that reposted that and then his chiropractor made a comment. And he said, Yeah, that’s like subluxation with the C-1 and the C-2 vertebra in the body. Then he said something that really got my attention. He said, Yeah, when you have a problem with the Atlas vertebra, and the Axis vertebra, it misaligns the body with the head. And I was like, Whoa, that really got my attention because I’ve been playing around with this Atlas metaphor before. And little did I know, and you know, this is as a journalist and a researcher, then it sends me down into this wormhole. I ended up reading three or four books in chiropractic.   Julie Roys  24:57 You sound like my husband. My husband would do that. Give me the Cliff Notes honey.   LANCE FORD  25:02 My wife’s like land it, land it. Yeah, but it was fascinating Julie because he said C-1, the first vertebra is called the Atlas. So, in fact, this particular doctor had written a little book, a real tiny little pamphlet size book called, It Just Makes Sense. Well come to find out there’s a certain amount of chiropractors, it’s a small percentage of chiropractors that just practice, they call it upper cervical care. And so, they only focus on the two top vertebra, because they’re convinced that if you line those up, everything below is going to come in order and align. In fact, they’ve got some pretty large claims of incredible maladies that get healed and come into order when the body, the neurological system starts functioning like it should. In fact, my buddy that had posted this, his chiropractor, so my buddy has a very rare form of cancer. And I forget what it’s called, but it should not kill him. But he’s had it for several years. And so, he’s always having to watch his T counts and everything. And under Dr. Weller’s care, his numbers have totally come in order. And that’s been going on for about four or five years now. So, it’s really amazing. So, one of the quotes that he said, and I did quote it in Atlas, so that Atlas vertebra, that’s where the brain stem sits into. So, he’s talking about the relationship between the head and the body. And he says, there’s that extra something inside each and every one of us that gives life; the inborn, innate intelligence knows what to do and how to do it. The intelligence that came from our Creator travels in and through your nervous system, which is commonly referred to as the neurological system. Neuro logic or intelligence within the nerve, the neurological communication between the brain and the body through the brainstem is imperative for allowing the body the best ability to function at its optimum. We believe that the body does not need any assistance, just no interference in its functioning. When you apply that to what Paul said about the body of Christ, and the relationship to the head, which he really goes in depth in Ephesians 4, he mentioned the other places, but in Ephesians 4, which Ephesians. The whole book of Ephesians is scholars say this is the book for the church. And it’s not a book about leadership. Ephesians 4 is not text about leaders, it’s about the body, it’s a text, read to the body, corporately, it’s talking about the body when he says the apostle, prophet, evangelist, shepherd, and teacher – that’s within the body. These are not professional positions. And I would say, and I know you would agree, Julie, that your house church, you guys already have at least one, you have multiple pastors there already. So, you don’t need some pro that comes in leveraging authority and power. They’re gifted. So, the body of Christ is already gifted in these functions. But the problem is, is when humans try to occupy the place of headship and playing Atlas, then it creates a disjointedness, between the Atlas vertebra and the rest of the body. And so, what happens is, we get paralyzed, we can’t move. We get all these maladies in these atrophy that sets in below the neck because somebody else has stepped in and cause misalignment with our true head Jesus. And so, I really believe that the first job of a church leader, or a pastor that wants to try to change is it’s kind of what Dr. Eddie Weller said is that we need to eliminate interference between Jesus in the body. And usually, it’s our system of leadership that’s causing the interference, and is bringing that paralysis and those maladies that go along the neckline.   Julie Roys  28:54 That’s so interesting. As you’re saying this, I’m beginning to get an image in my head of a body trying to function with just the brain. Right? And the rest of the body being literally paralyzed or just limp and not able to move. And I think about that in the church because we have made these guys at the head who communicate truth to us. I mean, most of the people come into our churches right now, they don’t know how to read the scripture for themselves and listen to the Holy Spirit themselves. They need that pastor to interpret for them what’s going on, which is scary. I remember going to one of these, you know, video, Pastor churches, and I’m like, and it had a celebrity pastor who was in from, you know, states away, who was preaching to them, telling them what to do. And I thought to myself, that guy who was preaching, nothing he said was heretical; however, he was not explicating scripture right. He was making it say things it didn’t say, and it scared me because I thought, that guy anything he says will get swallowed by this mass of people, because they don’t know they are not equipped. They are not connected to the head. They’re connected to the pastor, right? Who really functions in a godlike way with so many of these people? And I think that’s why when you see one of these falls, you see, just huge disillusionment. You know, for a lot of us, it’s been hurtful. It’s been disillusioning. Yes. But not to that foundational level, because my pastor was never my God. He was always just a man. Right? That’s all he was. And so yeah, we’d have lost that idea that really, it’s a functioning body, and all the members have to be functioning for this thing to work. And the guy at the top is not the pastor. It’s Jesus Himself, which is a radical idea, the biblical idea.   LANCE FORD  30:43 You know, the word radical and radish have the same root. Radical literally means root. So, it’s funny how that when you talk about people that are radicals, man, they’re so radical. That’s usually the people that have gone back to the roots of things that we call the radicals. It  was like the hippies back in the 70s, they were reading Mother Earth News, you know, and they’re, you know, got their gardens out the backyard, and they’re doing all this stuff, you know, are they radical? No, they’re doing what people have done for thousands of years. So sometimes that’s the hint that the people that we call the radicals may just be the ones that have tapped back into something that’s at the root of our beginnings as the church. And so that’s one of the things that when you get to this misalignment of the body, the real job description of a pastor or if you believe in those FIFO gifts, the apostle, prophet, Pastor, shepherd, and evangelists and teacher, their job description, Paul says, is to equip or resource and train and supply the saints for the work of ministry. So, it’s not to do everything, it’s not to be the chief speaker to be the end all. Really your job there, when you wake up in the morning, I don’t care what your title is, if you’re on staff at a church, no matter what your rank is, first thing you wake up in the morning and think what I need to do is how can I best resource and equip and serve the people that are around me? So, during your day, you shouldn’t be telling people what to do, you should be asking people, how can I help you? How can I serve you? What do you need youth pastor? How can I help you today to fulfill your calling? But that’s not the way it is. I mean, it’s usually everybody’s here to serve my needs. That’s leadership. That’s the system.   Julie Roys  32:37 I mean, we have a professional pastorate. So, we pay for you to do things for us.   LANCE FORD  32:42 You’re a vendor of religious goods and services, and I’m a consumer. So, give it up.   Julie Roys  32:48 Exactly. And that’s where I don’t put all the blame on the guy at the top. It’s what we’ve allowed as consumers. It’s what we’ve allowed as the body that is not doing what the Bereans did, and going back and saying, is what they’re teaching us right now, is this biblical, or is it not?   LANCE FORD  33:03 One of the things I thought about is you look at iteration or a church says today, most people are biblically illiterate. We don’t expect them to read their Bibles. We don’t. I mean, that’s why we project every scripture on screen. We don’t expect people even to bring a Bible. When you and I were growing up. I mean, people were bringing a Bible to church. I grew up spent a lot of time in the Baptist Church. every other weekend, the whole family would load up and we go spend the weekend with my grandparents about an hour away. They were Nazarene. They were in a little Nazarene church. And so, I literally spent half my time in a Nazarene church. So, I got a lot of Nazarene in me. And that little church of about 60 people and 55 of them were my kinfolks. I mean, you talk about a pastor not having a chance. Stay in line buddy because the Browns and the Fords will kick you to the curb. Anyway, it was a sweet fellowship and all my great aunts and great uncles and everything, They had the little board on the side of the pulpit that told the attendance from the week before, it told the offering. And I’m not making this up, even had a place it said Bibles present, you know, which was always funny to me, because I’ve looked back, and I thought they were trying to make a point. And those folks knew their scriptures. I mean, they knew the Bible, and they may have been misapplying it, but they still knew the Scriptures. And we just don’t have that today. We really have dumbed people down. And that’s part of the entertainment and this all comes from the secret church evolvement but if you go into the prevailing church today, if you go anywhere on a Sunday morning, most of the churches especially of any size you walk in, you don’t even know what denomination you’re in because most of them are singing the same songs. And the style is the same you’re going to go into a dark room. The ceiling is going to be black. The stage is going to be well lit depending on how much money and resource they have. It may even have some smoke machines which I call that the Shekindof. Glory, by the way,   Julie Roys  35:03 When I see the smoke machine, I am so over the top that I just I cannot I just cannot. And by the way, though, when you talked about Nazarene, this is going to warm the heart of Christine Jones, who’s one of our board members because she’s Nazarene. But I did Bible Quizzing. So, when I heard she was a Nazarene I’m like, Oh, dang! Oh, man! You know, and I am was pretty good Bible quizzer.   LANCE FORD  35:27 I bet you were.   Julie Roys  35:29 We went to Nationals a couple times. Our Bible Quizzing, my mom was our coach, but I’m telling you, I learned 100 you know, 150 verses every single year I did Bible Quizzing. I mean, that’s how I learned the scripture. But those Nazarenes they memorized the whole book. They memorized the whole thing.   LANCE FORD  35:45 I had a niece that does the Bible Quizzing in the Nazarene church, and  I don’t ever want to go toe to toe with her.   Julie Roys  35:52 But here’s the thing. Like I know Christine to this day says when they say a passage, she’s going over the passage in her mind, because it’s still there, the memory is still there of that passage. And you can’t distort something that people know. But we’re in a situation where people don’t know it., and so it creates just this fertile ground for everything to be messed up, and it’s gotten really messed up. So, you’re talking about realignment, how do we realign? Like in this situation that we’re in, how can we realign because we’ve got some major, major vertebrae out of whack?   LANCE FORD  36:24 So, you have to start off not with just looking at and saying, Well, yeah, I gotta choose a different way lady. No, you have to repent. This is an issue of repentance. Because we disobey Jesus and the word disobedient in many places. In fact, Paul uses it when he talks about your disobedience coming into a line. It means to, to hearken to not just to hear, but to listen and obey. We’ve disobeyed Jesus disobeyed Jesus, not only with our systems, but just some of those things that you mentioned, when you read the quote from the book earlier, even our what we call ourselves as leaders is disobedient to Jesus. Jesus could not have been more plain, don’t call yourself Father, don’t call yourself Teacher, don’t call yourself leader, because he says it causes you to lift yourself up above your brothers and sisters. Because he’s trying to create a peer type of a culture, a sibling culture. And this is the nomenclature that you see throughout the New Testament, co-laborer, coworker, fellow worker, is mentioned dozens of times those terms. You never see employee and boss. Because what happens is, that’s a power difference, right? It differentiates between the power, every time those words are mentioned, every time those terms and those rank-based titles are mentioned. So, the first thing a leader has to do is say I have to change the culture, I have to repent. And I have to admit this, and then I have to be willing to start changing the culture. So, I think the first thing that a leader has to do is then move into saying, I’m going to ditch the management systems. And I’m going to try to learn what it would look like if people on our team are able self-manage. And as I’m doing that, not only am I changing my titles, which that’s probably the first thing you need to do, because it will just freak everybody out. But what you do is you change your role. And so, you wake up in the morning and saying, I’m no longer going to act like I am chief, and everybody’s here to serve me. But I’m going to do what Jesus said, I’m gonna become a chief servant. I’m gonna out serve everybody here. And I’m gonna go back to the very thing that Paul said in Ephesians 4. I am going to work myself silly in helping the people around me to fulfill their calling. I’m going to do everything I can to resource them, to equip them, and just watch this rising tide lift all the boats around. So that’s the  first moves. And I always say this is when you’re looking at moving from a centralized leadership to a decentralized leadership, you can’t just wipe everything out, because then it’s just chaos and anarchy. So, you have to replace the systems with other processes and agreements. And that’s one of the things I’ve tried to write a lot about, wrote about a lot book called The Starfish in the Spirit. And in this, try to give some processes in some systems and some agreements of how you can rebuild your system into working this way. Because it doesn’t just happen in a vacuum. It’s too enormous of a change to move into it. But it has to be biblical, because that’s where the safety and that’s where the joy is. And this doesn’t mean that everything’s going to be rainbows and unicorns. There’s still stress and hard things and difficulty. I mean, Paul talked about the anxiety he had in the churches, but a lot of that was him trying to straighten stuff like this out.   Julie Roys  39:58 The book that I interviewed Scott McKnight and Laura Behringer on, Pivot, you know, is talking a lot about sort of similar things making this pivot from realizing you have a toxic culture. You guys are talking about it from the same idea, but a little different vantage points. And given, you know, he’s more of a theologian, you’re more of a boots on the ground kind of guy. But I think saying a lot of the same things. And one thing I wonder is that we’re often thinking about it in terms of like you said, we’ve got this church that needs to change. I was very interested in church planting in my 20s. And a lot of people would say that a lot of time, it takes way more energy to change an existing church than it does to grow a new one. And it’s just something I’ve been wondering, you know, out of these ashes, because what’s happening in the evangelical church right now, I mean, it is, it’s imploding, which I know is painful for everybody involved in you know, to see these kinds of implosions. But I’ve really been asking myself, Should we be putting energy into changing the existing church, or should we be saying, we just need to close some churches, we need to scrap this model? Because I mean, even so often, when you get rid of like the toxic guy at the top, it’s a toxic system throughout,  it is so hard. You have so much inertia, that to change that church is so hard. So, I know you don’t get into this really in your book, but it’s something I’ve been wrestling with. And even wondering once you do start that new thing. How can we do it differently because this is what we’ve seen modeled?   Julie Roys  40:02 What you’re touching on there is the whole wineskin issue that Jesus taught. You can’t put new wine in an old wineskin. But can you create a new wineskin for the old wine? Heard a lot of people talk about that. Which yeah, well,  maybe you can, I think is very difficult for the reasons you said. Now, two out of the last three houses that my wife and I have lived in, we built ourselves. And when I say that, I mean, we built it ourselves. I didn’t contract it. Our hands, blood and sweat, and skin. And I just kind of grew up with that, my grandpa was a carpenter. So, I kind of grew up with that.   LANCE FORD  41:31 We built one house. We didn’t do everything ourselves. But yeah, I thought, general contracting, how hard can that be?   LANCE FORD  42:14 Oh yeah, you got that lesson, then, you found out. And you promise, I will never do this again, which I said I would never do it again after the first one.   Julie Roys  42:22 Well, no, actually, I said, I learned so much by making so many stupid mistakes in that first one that I want to do it again, so that I can capitalize on the lessons learned.   LANCE FORD  42:31 Now that’s good. And it is a fun process. And it was very cathartic. This one that we built was a smaller house. And it was very cathartic. But also, we’ve rehabbed houses. And I would say as hard as it is to build from the ground up, it’s easier than rehabbing a house.   Julie Roys  42:47 Cuz you never know what you’re gonna get into.   LANCE FORD  42:49 You don’t know what’s behind that wall, you know, and you think that you know, and you peel it back, and you just discover, oh, it’s deeper, and you’re taking it down to the studs, and you get down the studs and go, Oh, the termites were here before I was here, right? All kinds of stuff. So yeah, those issues come into place. I tell you, one of the things that we’ve seen a lot of success, and I say we because I do work with a few others. I’m a part of a team that we do help churches in consulting and coaching. we talk about terms of a parallel track, just trying smaller little projects, and seeing how they go. In fact, several of the largest churches, and we’ve worked with large churches that realize that they just cannot completely turn that thing around. So, what they do is they start investing in different types of church plants, or micro churches, or whatever. And I think their hearts are good and right in that. And so, I’ve got some friends that do lead large mega churches. And I think that they are, some of them have developed some leadership systems that are closest to what I would hope to see. And I think it’s probably about as close as they can get without just killing the thing.   LANCE FORD  44:06 Our time is getting short. But there’s one term that I thought was so good when you’re talking about developing a culture of equality, and you talked about this term, I’ve never heard this this term before, but equa-potency, thank you. But yeah, explain what you mean by that, because I thought that was actually a pretty key component to what you’re talking about.   LANCE FORD  44:30 What equa-potency basically, is kind of a culture of equals. When you talk about a quality in a leadership system, it freaks a lot of people out because immediately the pushback is somebody has to be in charge. The buck has to stop somewhere. You can’t have equality, everybody’s not equal. You can just look at him. Okay, so let’s start right there. And Paul talks about this in Romans 12. In fact, Romans 12:1-2 you know, we usually start out with be not conformed to this world but be transformed by the renewing of your mind right? So that you can prove what is the good, perfect, pleasing will of God. And we usually stop there. And so, people usually read that verse and say, Oh, that’s the verse about not being worldly, you know, don’t drink, don’t chew, don’t run around with girls that do, right? And always blame a woman, right? That was the little saying growing up. But don’t stop there, keep reading the rest of the of the text, because then he’s really going into how gifts that the Lord pours out should be functioning. And so, one of the things that he says he talks about the different gifts, in fact, he talks about people that do have a gift of administration, or what we would call leadership. And he talks about, then he says, but do it with sobriety, be sober, and then he starts talking about don’t look on your own things and be selfish. And he starts going into this whole thing about different people have different measures for their giftings. So, in any room, if you have a sizable room, and you think about just outstanding, let’s say the great men or the great women that are great into gifting or whatever. And you and I, Julie may have a similar gifting. But we can just look like I’ve got a couple of friends that are mentors of mine. And I’m thinking about one in particular. He’s been an incredible mentor in my life. And he and I have similar gifts. Mine, I can’t even touch his abilities in some of this stuff. He is just far out. Well, Paul will call that he has a greater measure of faith. It’s not faith like we think about it all. Oh yeah, he’s confident and all that. No, it’s really the term there, really iterates it’s the ability to use that gift. And some people just have that, have a greater measure. And so, Paul warns them to treat the others as equals. And so, this particular mentor in my life, he’s always treated me that way. And in the first few years, we started working together, man, I mean, there was no way I could touch what he did. But he always encouraged me genuinely, not patronizing me. But really, he just thought you never know when what the Lord wants to say or do is going to come through Lance or Jill or Rob or Steve in the room, just because I’ve got the big platform, I’m speaking as him, I can use any of them. So that’s equa-potency. So, it’s potent. So, when you get a group of people together, and you have an equal atmosphere, not meaning that everybody has the same has equal gifts, but they have equal opportunity. And so that’s really what we’re saying. It’s a culture that everybody is treated as equals to have equal opportunity, even if they don’t have the equal faith in the giftings that they have. Does that make sense?   Julie Roys  47:55 Absolutely it does. And as you’re talking about this, we do think of the people that that are incredibly gifted. And we have examples of that in scripture. But we also have probably the greatest leader, or one of the ones that we look to in the Old Testament was Moses, who couldn’t speak, had all sorts of failings. And yet God used him in amazing ways. Because he had that spiritual connection to God. He knew God, and he had a heart after God. And we have majored on the minors, right? We’ve made the gifting so important instead of the heart for God. And there’s so much in your book, we could discuss, and I would love to discuss, you get into how spiritual warfare, how that plays out in this practical steps. And so, I really encourage people, this is going to be our book for this month, for anybody who gives a donation of $30 or more, we’ll get you a copy of The Atlas Factor, just a phenomenal phenomenal book. So, if you want to do that, support our work here at The Roys report, but also get this incredible resource, just go to JULIEROYS.COM/DONATE. And we can get this book in your hands. And I want to get this book as many hands as I can. Because I think it’s a paradigm shift is what you’re talking about. And you’ve been talking about it now for 11 years since you wrote your first one, Unleader. And I think there’s a lot of resistance. But the more and more we see the crash and burns, the more and more we’re going to have to say we’ve got to do it a different way. And so, I feel like you’re very much a prophetic voice when it comes to this issue. Just so grateful for it. So, Lance, thank you. Thank you for taking the time. Thank you for speaking at RESTORE. Thank you for being on our board. Thanks for writing this book, The Atlas Factor. Really awesome.   Julie Roys  48:13 Always a joy, Julie, thank you.   Julie Roys  49:41 Well, again, that was Lance Ford, an experienced church planter, pastor, consultant, and author of The Atlas Factor, Shifting Leadership Onto the Shoulders of Jesus. And as we mentioned, this book releases this month, and we’re actually giving away copies of The Atlas Factor to anyone who gives a gift of $30 or more  to The Roys Report this month. Again, we don’t have any big donors or advertisers almost all the funding for The Roys Report comes from you, the people who care about exposing abuse and corruption in the church and caring for abuse victims. So, if you can please go to JJULIEROYS.COM/DONATE  and give what you’re able to this ministry. And when you give, we’ll gladly send you a copy of The Atlas Factor. Also, just a quick reminder to subscribe to The Roys Report on Apple podcast, Google podcasts or Spotify. That way you won’t miss any of these episodes. And while you’re at it, I’d really appreciate it if you’d help us spread the word about the podcast by leaving a review. And then please share the podcast on social media so more people can hear about this great content. Again, thanks so much for joining me. Hope you are blessed and encouraged.   Read more

Luke 6:27-36 - Rev. Andy Wood

1 Samuel 17:1-11, 37-52 - Rev. Andy Wood

Brian, Blake, and Richard are back for episode 497 of the Chasing Tone Podcast!Brian's recorded a new theme tune for the show and the guys are excited to share it with everyone before looking at some artificial unintelligence developments. Richard is not impressed with the underlying robotic signature or something. Whatever. He also tries to add some structure to the show with a special feature and it falls a little flat. Maybe.What do you do with an LED with three legs? Richard needs some DIY advice and attempts to guess the weight of one of his co-hosts before coming up with a new product that frustrates Brian to the point of complete exasperation. This turns into a conversation about expensive cables and Brian has an idea. Gibson have launched some new amplifiers and at first glance the guys love the authenticity of them, but upon deeper delving, they discover some marketing quirks. It quickly degenerates into a mass of confusion which we can only assume is caused by Gibson absentmindedly forgetting to send the guys an amp to test. Brian and Richard had a sneak preview of the new Andy Wood album and tell us all about it.   Foolish proclamations, Giant stereos, Eight Blakes, Distortion cables, Horsekicking contest, Seasoned salt...it's all in this week's Chasing Tone!We are on Patreon now too!Support the show (https://www.patreon.com/chasingtonepodcast)Brian's new online courses are here:http://www.guitarpedalcourse.comAwesome Merch and DIY mods:https://modyourownpedal.com/collections/booksFind us at:https://www.wamplerpedals.com/https://www.instagram.com/WamplerPedals/https://www.facebook.com/groups/wamplerfanpage/Youtube:https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCdVrg4Wl3vjIxonABn6RfWwContact us at: podcast@wamplerpedals.comSupport the show

Luke 2:1-20 - Rev. Andy Wood

Doug welcomes Bill Squire, Geoff Tate and Andy Wood to the show.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

In a world with millions of podcasts, it can be hard to filter through the options and find shows you connect with. In this episode, Carey asked some friends to contribute excerpts from their podcasts.  You'll hear excerpts from multiple podcasts featuring insights from N.T. Wright, Granger Smith, John Deloney, Andy Wood, Jenni Catron, Brad Lomenick, and more.  This episode features highlights from the Art of Leadership's 2023 season and a foretaste of all that's to come on the Art of Leadership Network shows in 2024.  Show Notes Highly Productive Leader Challenge On The Rise Newsletter Preaching Cheat Sheet Watch on YouTube Follow @careynieuwhof Follow @theartofleadershipnetwork   PODCASTS MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE Leaders in Living Rooms w/Sean Morgan The Conversation w/Adam Weber Win Today w/Christopher Cook Lead Culture w/Jenni Catron The Unfair Advantage w/Andy Wood and Mike Hickerson H3 Leadership w/Brad Lomenick   Brought to you by The Art of Leadership Network   _____ The Carey Nieuwhof Leadership Podcast: Empowering Church Leaders in the Digital Age   In a rapidly evolving digital age, the Carey Nieuwhof Leadership Podcast delves deep into the intricacies of leadership, offering management insights and authentic leadership tips to help you rise above the unhealthy patterns that often plague today's church leaders.  Carey addresses character issues like envy that can hinder our growth, and he emphasizes the power of multiplication – the idea that true leadership is not about adding followers but multiplying leaders. Whether you're on the brink of resignation, seeking a fresh perspective on digital how-to strategies, or simply wishing to bolster your leadership skills, this podcast is a treasure trove of transformative insights. Join Carey as he navigates the multifaceted world of leadership, ensuring that you're equipped and inspired to lead more effectively.

Andy Wood: Bullfrog tadpoles have an alkaloid in their skin. It's a chemical compound that tastes a little bit like rotten lemon and Ajax. It's a horrible taste, so very few things eat them.RLH: Have you tried this? It's a very, um, specific description.AW: I would never admit that.In the wild coastal plain of southeastern NC, Andy Wood and I explore the wildness of suburban stormwater management ponds. What we find is, no surprise, quite a surprise.

Tomorrow's hits today! Introducing country stars Justin Champagne & Drew Jacobs who bring us the new Rock Remix of Justin's track "When I Pull Up" and Tony West the lead singer of rock band Blacklist Union who brings us "Keys To The Kingdom"!!! We start with Justin Champagne & Drew Jacobs! We were first introduced to Justin by podcaster and friend of the show David Hooper who told us about the track "If She Ain't Country (feat SNOOP DOGG)"! Justin tells us how the relationship with Snoop began. They tell us of how they made the connection from Nashville, TN (where Justin is from) to Michigan (where Drew is from) to work together on their track "When I Pull Up(Rock Remix)" which went viral on Tik Tok! Check out the hot video as well! What do our female listeners think of Justin's Louisiana accent? Should he play GAMBIT in the next X-MEN movie??? Ilan talks a little smack to Drew about the (at the time of recording the podcast) upcoming OHIO STATE VS MICHIGAN Game! (That doesn't hold up well after the game LOL) We discuss the cross-genre appeal of country music with Hip-Hop, EDM, and Pop! And Drew talks about the love he and his wife have for Strip Clubs!:) Next, we talk to Tony West of the rock band BLACKLIST UNION and we review their latest track "Keys To The Kingdom"! Manson fans this track is for you! A true Rock Star personality who has been in the game for 20 years! Heavily influenced by NYC Punk Rock and Andy Wood & Mother Love Bone, Tony brings authenticity to any project he works on. Tony & Bob Chiappardi discuss the New York City rock scene of the 90's and early 2000's! Tony dives into how the healing journey he's been on for the last few years and how it has shaped his lyrics and sound. we discuss everything from his journey to the Amazon Jungle to do a deep spiritual healing with the natives, to the passing of his friend and roommate Mike Inez of Alice In Chains which led to performing at a special tribute show to his musical hero Andy Wood in front of Andy's family and friends, Tony has evolved into a powerful artist through the raw vulnerability these experiences have compelled him to express. Tony, Bob, and Ilan discuss the tragic murder of Dimebag Darrell at the Alrosa Villa in Columbus, OH nearly 20 years ago and the lasting impact that murder has had on the Columbus music scene and concert security worldwide. All this and Danny, Ilan and Bob pick 6 hot new tracks you need to know about Lose Control - Teddy Swims My Way – Timbaland, Anna Margo INTERVIEW JUSTIN CHAMPAGNE & DREW JACOBS When I Pull Up - Justin Champagne, Drew Jacobs (Rock mix) Des Rocs – I Am the Lightning QLONA – KAROL G & Peso Pluma INTERVIEW TONY WEST from BLACKLIST UNION Keys To The Kingdom - Blacklist Union Hella Good - Niko The Kid & Benson Unpeople - Smother Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Guest Bios Show Transcript https://youtu.be/CaDhqixI0jsExposing abuse and corruption can be a thankless job. Powerful figures doing wrong often deny and attack those exposing them. And their supporters often join suit—attacking the messenger, rather than holding their leader accountable. This edition of The Roys Report features a very personal talk from Restore Conference founder and journalist, Julie Roys, delivered at the recent event this past October. It's centered on one question: why continue reporting, advocating, and shining a light when doing so comes at such a high personal cost? Journalists like Julie often ask this question—and so do many abuse survivor advocates, whistleblowers, and allies. The work can be grueling, and the pay off at times seems minimal. But in this talk, Julie shares not just her own struggles, but also the convictions she's gained over years of exposing abuse and corruption. If you're struggling to keep fighting for truth and justice, this talk will not just encourage, but inspire you to keep going. Guests Julie Roys Julie Roys is a veteran investigative reporter and founder of The Roys Report. Julie previously hosted a national talk show on the Moody Radio Network, called Up for Debate. She also has worked as a TV reporter for a CBS affiliate in Fort Wayne, Indiana, and as a newswriter for WGN-TV and Fox 32 Chicago. Julie's work has also appeared in Christianity Today, Religion News Service, The Federalist, and The Christian Post. She and her husband, Neal, live in the Chicago area and have three children and two grandchildren.  Show Transcript SPEAKERSJulie Roys Julie Roys  00:04Exposing abuse and corruption can be a thankless job. Those doing wrong often deny and attack those exposing them. And their supporters often join suit, attacking the messenger rather than holding their leader accountable. So why continue reporting and advocating and shining a light? Welcome to The Roys Report, a podcast dedicated to reporting the truth and restoring the church. I’m Julie Roys. And the question of why not quit is one of those questions I’ve asked myself repeatedly over the years. And I know it’s not one that just journalists ask; many abuse survivor advocates, whistleblowers and allies do too. The work can be grueling and the payoff at times can seem minimal, so why not quit? Why keep fighting Goliath when the odds continually seem stacked in our opponent’s favor?   Julie Roys  00:52 What you’re about to hear is a very personal talk I gave at the 2023 RESTORE conference. The past 18 months have been especially hard for me. And there have been times when I’ve struggled profoundly with whether I can stay in this work without it deforming my soul. If you’re a survivor, or whistleblower or an ally, or maybe all of the above, you’ve probably experienced some of the same struggles. You may be struggling today. In this talk. I don’t pretend to have all the answers. I’m still processing a lot of this stuff myself. But what I do is share my journey and why ,despite the difficulties, which are many and real, I’m not quitting. You’ll hear my talk in just a minute.   Julie Roys  00:52 But first, I’d like to thank the sponsors of this podcast, Judson University, and Marquardt of Barrington. If you’re looking for a top ranked Christian University, providing a caring community and an excellent college experience. Judson University is for you. Judson is located on 90 acres, just 40 miles west of Chicago in Elgin, Illinois. The school offers more than 60 majors, great leadership opportunities and strong financial aid. Plus, you can take classes online as well as in person. Judson University is shaping lives that shaped the world. For more information, just go to JUDSONU.EDU. Also, if you’re looking for a quality new or used car, I highly recommend my friends at Marquardt of Barrington. Marquardt is a Buick GMC dealership where you can expect honesty, integrity, and transparency. That’s because the owners there Dan and Curt Marquardt, are men of integrity. To check them out, just go to BUYACAR123.COM.   Julie Roys  02:37 Well, again, here’s the talk I gave a RESTORE 2023 on why not quit? Well, at the first RESTORE conference in 2019, I announced from this stage that we were experiencing an unmistakable move of God to purify his church. James MacDonald had just been exposed as the bully and hypocrite that he was and removed from Harvest Bible Chapel. Bill Hybels was exposed as a sexual predator, and people were finally believing the women, and revelations about Jerry Falwell, Jr. were just beginning to come out. And then donors alleging fraud won a massive $37 million dollar settlement from Gospel for Asia. Clearly God was cleaning house right? And over the next few years, the revelations just kept coming. Jerry Falwell, Jr, resigned from Liberty University amid shocking allegations of sexual and financial misconduct. Ravi Zacharias was shown to be a serial sexual predator, and RZIM was shut down. Hillsong began to implode beginning with Carl Lentz and his sexual misconduct going all the way to Brian Houston, and his sexual misconduct. And then I reported probably the biggest investigation I’ve ever done. I reported on John MacArthur, the supposed greatest expositor of the 20th century, that he had a pattern of shaming abuse victims and protecting their abusers. With story after story after story, the evil infecting the evangelical industrial complex, was being exposed and routed out. And probably more than any other time in my life, I felt like I was right in the middle of this remarkable thing that God was doing. Well, then I experience the most virulent backlash I have ever experienced. An army of YouTubers loyal to John MacArthur just kept hitting. They couldn’t go after the facts of my stories, so they went after me. And I became the poster child of the angry feminist proponent of CRT, wokism –  it didn’t matter whether I adhere to any of these things. They republished it anyway. And John MacArthur, despite everything I’d reported on him, he didn’t get canceled. He went and spoke at the Getty’s Sing conference. At the G3 conference, the Puritans conference. Sure, his reputation has been tarnished a bit. But those loyal dug in.   Well, then some anonymous Twitter accounts loyal to John MacArthur found some objectionable content in a book that I wrote in 2017. And soon I wasn’t just facing backlash from John MacArthur and those loyal to him, but from my own tribe, and from the survivor community. And people were hurt, and they were confused. And like I said, yesterday, some of that criticism was valid and deserved, and I didn’t get the power differential and someone a relationship with somebody that had been in a ministry that I had led, and that was my own responsibility. And I had assigned fault where it didn’t belong, where I should have taken responsibility. But some of the criticism was cruel. And it was patently false. And it was shockingly personal. And if you’ve never been in the midst of a public controversy like that, it’s kind of hard to explain. But it is a unique kind of awful. At least when you’re a private person and people talk about you, they have the decency to do it behind your back. But when you’re a public person, they do it in front of your family and your children and your friends and thousands and thousands of other people. And it was traumatic for me, I know it was even traumatic for some of you. And then perhaps smelling blood in the water, Protestia, a so-called discernment blog, lacking hardly any journalistic integrity, announced that they had a story that was going to expose me as a fraud. And on a Friday, they tweeted, were blocked but someone tag at reached Julie Roys, and give her a heads up in our next article about her revealing some of her shenanigans is really, really gonna sting. And then they published this video:   07:05 I said at the very at the very beginning, that we have some more information coming out about Julie Roys that I’m hoping to have out to you by Monday but suffice it to say it’s going to blow up the facade of Julie Roys as an ethical investigative journalist. We have some information about some very unethical, I would say immoral, but certainly unethical., things that Julie Roys has been caught saying and doing and promoting that we’re going to be releasing this information, hopefully by Monday. So, stay tuned to Protestia.com for that information. I want to thank you all again for joining me tonight on this live stream.   Julie Roys  08:06 So that came out on a Friday, so I had the whole weekend. I’m on pins and needles a whole weekend and I’m like what awful thing did I just do? I have no idea what I just did. So, I’m waiting for this to come out and on Monday Protestia published this menacing tweet. Apparently the story had been delayed a day. But will come out the next morning. Yet on Tuesday instead of publishing their big expose on me Protestia had to publish a retraction saying they almost got conned by an abuse survivor. Of course, they’ve got conned because they went forward with all of these allegations on Friday. Apparently a woman had fabricated some emails that she said were from me. And in these emails, I allegedly said that she should go forward with 300 allegations against a well-known Christian figure whether they were true or false. And sadly, Protestia didn’t do the very basics, the number one thing that you do when someone’s accused, is you go to the accused, and you ask for their side of the story. They didn’t do that until Tuesday, when they started to recognize some things might be going wrong. And they had accepted these fabricated emails as fact for about three days and went forward with those, again, libelous, and slanderous allegations,. The experience was unnerving, especially in the middle of what I was dealing with. But it wasn’t the last hoax I faced either. Someone close to James McDonald came after me with wild allegations that I covered up a child sex abuse scandal at Harvest Bible Chapel when I was investigating it. Nothing could have been further from the truth. Yet, some survivor advocates picked up that story as well and they began tweeting and retweeting it. And I had to track down a story that was three years old and find the emails and the texts and go back to the primary sources and publish my own story, showing that these allegations were false. And whatever momentum that I had going into all of this was completely eradicated. I was just trying to keep my head above water. Emotionally, I was spinning. It was so, so tough.   Julie Roys  10:21 And then people started talking about whether or not I was going to quit. In fact, I got a call from a colleague of mine, and was actually the only journalist who called me in the midst of this. And he said, Julie, I am watching what’s going on online. And he’s like, are you all right? And it was really sweet. And I don’t even know what I said. I was playing blubbering something. But it was a sweet call. But at the end of the call, he’s like, hope you don’t take this the wrong way, but if you do resign, can I have the interview? I was a little taken aback, but then I got a call from a former blogger, who I got to know really well through an investigation. And he gave me permission to share what I’m going to share with you. But he just asked that I call him by his first name, his first name, Scott. And so, he said something very similar. He said, Julie, I’m watching what’s happening to you on Twitter right now. And I just have to tell you as your friend, like, this is painful. He’s like, You don’t owe me an explanation. I know you. I know your character. But don’t take this the wrong way. But have you thought about quitting? And he’s like, I love you and I care about you, and I’ve actually jotted down some reasons that I think you should consider. And would you be willing to just hear me out on this? And I love Scott. I respect Scott. And I knew the heart that he was saying this was, so I said, Sure. Scott, go ahead. Tell me what you think. And he said, one, I noticed that you’re taking all this friendly fire. See, usually, my accusers are the defenders of whatever church leader it is, that’s  caught in the crosshairs of some investigation. But now, my accusers were my own tribe. It was people, some people from the survivor community. And let me just preface what Scott said, by saying, I have found that the survivor community and the people in this room, that some of you have been some of the most gracious people that I know. And the love that I was shown from some of you was so touching. And I have so much respect for survivors. Because survivors have been through hell, and they’ve come out with this beauty. So many of you. And so, it really was a small segment of the survivor community that was really being nasty. But he said, Julie, given the way that you’ve been treated by your own tribe, why would you keep reporting their stories? And I know some of you know what that feels like. Because you’ve tried to help with something. And you stepped out and you’ve messed up in some way and the backlash, and what happened to you when you did that, made you feel like I don’t even want to do that again. Like why try? And that’s how I felt a little bit at that point.   Julie Roys  13:22 But then he said, secondly, maybe your work to expose abuse and corruption is done. And by this, he didn’t mean there weren’t any more abusers out there or anymore corruption. What he was saying is that there’s a pattern. In fact, there’s so much of a pattern, you just see it playing out again and again, and again. It’s like Wade Mullens said in his book, something’s not right. They’re all using the same playbook. They all use the same tactics. He’s like, have you thought that maybe, just maybe, those who have ears to hear have heard and the rest won’t ever listen to it anyway. But lastly, and this is the one that really kind of hit home. And he said, Julie, do you ever wonder in what ways reporting on all of these vile things in the church and living in this constant pressure cooker is molding you and forming you into someone that you don’t want to be? And then he quoted Friedrich Nietzsche, who said, Whoever battles monsters should see to it in the process, that he does not become a monster himself. And when you look long into the abyss, the Abyss also looks back at you. And then Scott recalled ways that when he was blogging, that he’d start to see how this was affecting him negatively. That’s part of the reason he stopped doing it. And he said, Julie,  don’t take this as a confrontation. I’m not saying that I see this in you yet. But when I read some of the comments sometimes at your website, that’s when I begin to see it. He’s like, It’s like Grace is disappearing. And friend, you know the verse in the passage in Corinthians, If I speak with the tongues of angels, but have not love, I am nothing but a resounding gong and a clanging cymbal or in my situation, if I expose every predator pastor and defend every vulnerable victim, but have not love, I am nothing. And I know again, my experience is unique in some ways, but it’s not. Also, some of you have been reporting, maybe not as a journalist, but in other ways have been trying to expose abuse and corruption in the church for far longer than I have. Some of you that have spoken at this conference have suffered far worse than I could even imagine,  for standing up for the truth. And you may not be journalists, although there’s some in this room. But you’re bloggers and podcasters and whistleblowers, lawyers, pastors, allies, advocates. And you may today profoundly feel betrayed by those that you expected to support you. A sense of futility about the work that you’re doing. And there are moments when you feel like your work, or advocacy is molding you into someone that you don’t want to be. And you may be wondering, is it worth it? Should I just get out of the trenches? Should I stop doing this and maybe just go to Colorado and hike mountains every day?   Julie Roys  16:39 I have wrestled with all these things profoundly. And I don’t speak today as someone who has all the answers. I am in process like a lot of you. But I do feel like God has spoken to me with some resolution on some of these things. And I just want to share with you kind of what God’s been saying to me, in the hopes that it’ll help you as you wrestle through some of these things as well.   Julie Roys  17:05 So let me talk about the first issue that Scott raised, and that’s betrayal. I mean, why report or advocate or serve or pastor on people who may at any point turn on you? First, let me say, it goes both ways. I’ve been hurt by some survivor advocates, some of them innocently, some of them maliciously. But I’ve hurt some people in this room. I’ve had to ask forgiveness for some people in this room. And they’ve had to show me grace. And so, in some ways, there’s really nothing unique about this. If you’re working with people, we’re going to disappoint each other, right? We’re going to let each other down, we’re going to have to ask for forgiveness, we’re going to have to extend grace. But this is I think the question itself had an assumption in it, and that is that I’m doing what I’m doing for survivors. And I love survivors. I love you guys, and I consider myself now after some of the stuff I’ve been through, one of them too; absolutely love you guys.   Julie Roys  18:20 But this is what I told Scott, or at least what I was thinking at the time, I can’t remember if I told him. But I’m not doing this for survivors. Maybe as a secondary reason, yes. But I don’t think any of us can stay in the work that we’re doing long term if we’re primarily doing it for people. Because when you’re doing it for people, your eyes are always on the worthiness of a person. And we’re pretty darn fallible. In the long term, if that’s what we do, we’re gonna end up very bitter and angry and burned out. The primary reason I’m doing what I’m doing, and I would suggest that all of us should be doing whatever work it is, as an act of worship to God. We’re serving God. And you’ve probably heard the story of Mother Teresa, where she was with a journalist in Calcutta. And he saw her cleaning out this infected wound that was this maggot infested. And he said, “I wouldn't do what you’re doing for a million dollars. And she shot right back, I wouldn’t either. She got that when she served the person on the street, she was serving Jesus. And so, whenever we’re serving whatever capacity it is, we are serving Jesus. I would also say that I do believe God called me to this work.   Julie Roys  19:45 I never would have imagined five years ago that I would be doing what I’m doing today. It was the furthest thing from my imagination. And I bet for some of you in this room 5 years ago, 10 years ago, 15 years ago, you never would have imagined you would be here either, or you never would have imagined the set of circumstances that put you in this room right now. And I’m guessing that if you look back over the ,5, 10, 15, however many years it’s been, if you look carefully, you can see the hand of God in your life, putting you where you are right now. It is not the road you would have chosen, but it’s the road that God worked redemptively in.   Julie Roys  20:31 Five years ago, I was a radio host on the Moody Bible Institute, Moody Radio Network. I’d just written a book, I was getting booked at these women’s conferences, ironically, one at Harvest Bible Chapel. I was getting booked on all these radio programs, I was on my way to becoming, God forbid, a Christian celebrity. But then I learned about corruption and abuse at the Moody Bible Institute. And I was the one person who not only had the inside information, but I also had the training and the skills to know what to do with that to expose it. And so, it didn’t take too long before it became a matter of conscience where I felt like if I didn’t say something, that I would be disobeying God. And some of you know exactly what I’m talking about, because you’ve sat in that situation before, where you’ve known that to stay quiet is to disobey God. But you have absolutely no guarantee that if you speak out, that it’s going to go well for you. In fact, you’re pretty darn sure that if you do speak out, it’s gonna go a lot worse. And that’s what happened for me. I got fired from Moody Bible Institute. Ironically, they also pressured the top three executives to resign that I had reported on. But I had broken the silent rule, which is, you never speak about these things publicly. I was actually told by a board member on the phone, that the reason they fired me is because the interim president told them that I had signed an NDA. And I will never forget the shock in his voice  when I told him that several years before when they had moved me from full time to part time that they had given me an NDA, and I fought it with everything I was worth. There was absolutely no way that as a journalist, I would sign something that resigned me to silence, absolutely no way. And he immediately said, Oh, I gotta go and hung up. And despite the fact that they had absolutely no grounds for firing me, I was completely blacklisted in the evangelical industrial complex. And many of you know what that is like too. I knew it would happen, just wasn’t, I had been in it for about 10 years. So, I knew how the game worked.   Julie Roys  23:02 And I thought when I got fired, this would be a great thing. I’ll have more time with my kids, and now my grandkids. But then survivors from Harvest Bible Chapel came to me begging me to hear their stories and do what I had done at Moody for Harvest. And then survivors from Mark Driscoll’s church came and said, “Would you please listen to us and report on what’s happening here? And then Steve Baughman gave me a copy of his book, Cover Up in the Kingdom. And he said, Julie, I’ve been reporting for years about how Ravi Zacharias is a fraud, but nobody will listen to me because I’m an atheist, but they’ll listen to you because you’re one of them. And God brought me story after story after story. And every single time I didn’t hear like the audible voice of God, but I felt very much that he was saying, keep reporting. And so that’s what I’ve tried to do. And ironically, God took the one thing that I thought would end my career, blowing the whistle on the Moody Bible Institute, and he used it to launch The Roys Report. And he used hurting people that I got to know in my reporting on Harvest and Willow Creek to start this conference. And I just see his hand working redemptively in all things. And I bet some of you like I said, if you look back over your life, and even this chapter, you might be able to see God’s hand working redemptively. Maybe not yet. Some of you I know, because I’ve talked to you and it’s like, you’re hanging by a thread right now. And you can’t even believe that the things that have happened to you at the hands of people you loved, and you trusted, and you thought were members of the kingdom and you were all working on the same team, did you what they did. And I would just encourage you for whatever mustard seed of faith that you have, hang on to Jesus. Just hang on. Because I also know that there’s others of you today that you never would have believed, you never would have believed 10 years ago that you would be where you are today. You never would have believed you’d be able to heal. You never would have believed with what you went through, that you would have the confidence and the courage that you have today that you will be as healed as you are. And I just want to remind you, that’s not just because you’re amazing. A lot of you are amazing. And you’re an incredible inspiration to me, and you have been through far more than I ever will go through and ever dream of going through, I would just encourage you to see the way that God has been working in your life doing what he said he would do, that he began a good work in you will carry it on to completion to the day of Christ Jesus.   Julie Roys  25:57 I don’t think it’s trite, that what God did in the Old Testament with Joseph that he still does today. That he takes the evil that was done against us, and he works it for good. And if he’s calling you to a certain work, I would just encourage you to do it with all your might, as unto the Lord. And I’m not going to quit because of the pushback. I think it comes with the territory. In fact, I had an editor once who said Julia, if you’re not getting any hate mail, then you’re probably just not saying anything.   Julie Roys  26:38 But what about the second reason that Scott mentioned? The seeming futility of fighting this evil that seems to have worked itself through the entire dough of evangelicalism and within the church, and you seem to be fighting this giant that is so incredibly massive, and all the people with power are propping it up. And quite frankly, we don’t have very much. In fact, in comparison, we’re just gnats; we’re like so small. You know, last night we heard from Jason and Lorie Adams Brown. And if you know their story, you know that they blew the whistle on Andy Wood, who had been at Echo church because of the spiritual abuse that they received at his hands. Despite the fact that they blew the whistle on him, and I had the privilege of reporting their story, Saddleback Church went ahead and hired him, and he is now the successor for Rick Warren at Saddleback Church.   Julie Roys  27:42 But it was so encouraging to hear from them how their courage and their speaking out, cause other people who had been similarly abused by some of the same people to come to them, and talk to them about the abuse. And for them to say how they got their voice back because that’s what abusers do. They take away your voice. And to reclaim your voice is a very important thing. It is empowering. And then they talked about how another story that came to me because I published that first story was stories about how Andy Wood and Echo Church had stolen these vulnerable congregations that own these multimillion-dollar buildings and had tried to steal those buildings. And a major Baptist leader went on the record with me talking about his experience of Andy Wood trying to steal numerous churches. And that never would have come out had they not spoken.   Julie Roys  28:42 I also recently produced a podcast with Emily Hyland, who’s at this conference. And Emily was a victim of abuse by Dane Ortlund, who’s a pastor in this area. And Emily told me that after we published the podcast, now she’s beginning to hear from other people who have similarly been abused by Dane Ortlund, and now they’re beginning to get their voice and they’re thinking of going on the record. And just a little bit ago, I published the story about Churchome. This is this West Coast church pastored by celebrity pastor Judah Smith, and the first piece that I did on Churchome was about this woman who had been raped by one of their pastors. And they even did an independent investigation and found out that there’s credible evidence, in fact beyond a reasonable doubt that her allegation was true. So, they pressured him, and he resigned from the church and three years later, they hired him back over her objections. And literally the same day, I started getting emails and texts and different things from women who had similarly been abused at that church and wanted to go forward with their story and I was able to do a three-part series on what Churchome had done. And right now, I can’t tell you what the story is because I haven’t published it yet. But I have a big one. And it’s due to another person at Churchome, seeing what we just reported. And now that person came forward and gave me a bunch of information. And that’s how it happens. Every single time with story after story after story. It’s like this little fire starts here, and then it spreads here, and then here, here, and soon the whole hillside is ablaze. And friends, that’s how movements happen. That’s how they grow. But it takes time, and it takes perseverance.   Julie Roys  30:34 At the first RESTORE, I said that this unmistakable move of God that it was not a sprint, it’s a marathon. Now, at that point, I thought we were in like mile 9 or 10. The more I’ve done this now I’m thinking we’re on four or five, we may be on two or three. And I hate to break that news to you. But I really do. People have compared this current state of the church to the Catholic church before the Reformation. I actually think that’s a fair comparison. It is that corrupt. It is that widespread. Do you know how long the Reformation took? Historians date it from 1517 to 1648. Friends that is 131 years. How about slavery? Let’s just look at England. It took William Wilberforce fighting passionately, so much so that his own health suffered greatly for two decades to abolish slavery in England, because friends, that’s how institutionalized evil and that is what we are dealing with institutionalized evil. That’s how it’s dismantled. So, do I get discouraged? 100%. I’m human. Are there days when it’s hard to persevere? But I believe the corruption in the church is the most serious threat to this country. And most Christians don’t even know it. That’s the shocking thing. Most Christians aren’t even aware of it. And you say, Well, how can I say that? How many times have we heard the hope of the world is Jesus and his means of rescuing the world is thank you, the church. And we’re supposed to be the salt of the earth. We’re supposed to be a light on the hill, and we are Sodom and Gomorrah. And yet, what are most all the Christian leaders doing right now? What are they talking about? They’re talking about all the sin out there. Right? They’re talking about everything that’s bad out there in the world. Like they have a moral platform to stand on. And they’re not talking about the sin in their own house, none of them. And unless we deal with the sin in our own house, there’s no way, there’s no way that we’re going to reform this country. And it certainly isn’t by electing some politician.   Julie Roys  33:21 But I would encourage you, and this is what I see happen a lot, is that people get really excited about a story that touches them personally. And thank God because every time I report a new story, there are people who are totally unaware that this is going on, and they become aware. But then what happens is they move on with their life. And I’m not saying that you shouldn’t move on with your life. Dear Lord, if all of us lived in, I’ve got a weird call. I get that. I got a weird personality too. I make mugs. Actually. I have people make them for me, but the biggest insults I get I actually enjoy that at times. I’m just kind of weird that way. But I’m just there is an element to which we can’t all live in that intensity, and I get that. But what I’m saying is, don’t just move on and forget there’s other people stuck. Don’t just move on. Keep your love for the church and for the mission and for the restoration of this thing that Jesus died for and that he loves. And don’t forget that if not you, who? So, am I going to quit because the progress is slow and hard? No. I’m going to keep in mind one of my favorite verses First Corinthians 15:58. Therefore my dear brothers and sisters, do not lose heart. Stand firm. Always give yourselves fully to the work of the Lord, knowing that your labor in the Lord is not in vain.   Julie Roys  35:07 And now I’m going to address the most concerning issue that Scott raised. And that is what if in the process of fighting the monster, you become the monster? Last year Christian therapist and trauma expert Dr. Diane Langberg, said from the stage that the way that you recognize a wolf is you don’t become one. Some people took offense at that, because they said, listen, we’re not all going to become pedophiles. We’re not all rapists, we’re not like on that level. And they’re right. It takes a certain level of pathology to do something like that. And most people, quite frankly, aren’t there, thank God. That said, that’s not what Diane was saying. What Diane was saying is that every single one of us, every single one of us has a sin nature. And if we don’t keep that in check, we can succumb to a lot of the same things as the people I report on. I would be lying if I said that I didn’t have some of the vices of the people I report on because I do. I struggle with anger, bitterness, contempt, self-pity, that’s a big one, pride. And the more I uncover and the more that I see innocent people abused by these people, the more difficult it becomes to deal with some of those vices. It can become a death spiral. And the spiritual death that we see in other people can become our spiritual death. Dr. Lambert writes about this in her devotional book called In Our Lives First. And this is a book that I’ve read twice, devotionally over the past 18 months. I’ll probably read it again over the next year because this is something that I constantly need to be reminded of. And she writes, those of us who work with such deaths must be extremely careful not to catch the diseases that surround us. We must be careful not to assume that catching such diseases is hard to do. Working with sin, suffering and evil can easily numb the heart. Numbness leads to death, if left alone. She also writes, counselors, though this is true of investigative reporters, it’s true of pastors, it’s true of Survivor advocates, many others. We are handling toxic things, and we have toxins in our own hearts, and it is not hard to either be destroyed by the work or to destroy those who come to us for help. So, what do we do? Do we quit working in the trenches? Lori Anne suggested that some people should quit. I’m not going to argue with Lori Anne. Maybe I tweak it a little bit. Let me just speak to those of you who like me grew up in a home where personal responsibility and duty was a big thing. Any of you? okay. And so sometimes those of us who grew up in these homes tend to do things because we feel like we have to, and we have a sense of responsibility and duty. And we can be destroying ourselves and destroying the relationships with those we love the most. Yet we keep doing it because we think we have to. Am I right? Can I get an Amen? Now, right? I don’t think God is honored when we destroy ourselves. And I tell you what, he’s certainly not honored, when eventually that turns into harm for others, because eventually that’s what happens. So, if that’s you, and that’s happening, you know, maybe you don’t need to have a frontline role. Maybe you can just step back for a season. Maybe you can support some people that are out there. You know, maybe you can adjust your role or maybe you do take a little bit of a break. Or maybe you do go to Colorado for three weeks and hike mountains. But is there a way? Is there a way to remain in work that exposes us to the vilest, the vilest things that happen in this world, yet instead of destroying us, it actually aids in our own sanctification? Sanctification, just a theological word for the process of becoming like Jesus.   Julie Roys  39:53 I grew up in the holiness movement. You may not know what that means. That’s okay. But in the holiness movement, we talked a lot about sanctification. And we talked a lot about a second work of the Holy Spirit, kind of like charismatics talk about a baptism of the Holy Spirit, except the manifestation within the holiness movement isn’t tongues, the manifestation is power over sin in your life. And we weren’t against tongues. Speak in tongues? Absolutely. Just like Paul said, I wish you all were like me. Just if it doesn’t lead to your sanctification, what good is it? That’s the point is that we become like Jesus, right? Diane Langberg writes a lot about sanctification. She doesn’t urge counselors to quit their work. Instead, she implores them to pursue Jesus. She writes, we have not heard God clearly if we fail to understand that one of the requirements for our work is that God’s sanctifying work must go on continually in us as well. If it does not, while we may appear for a time to be doing his work, eventually what is true will be made manifest. That we have not for the sake of others, meant to the sanctification process ourselves, we will damage his world, His people and His name, may it never be so.   Julie Roys  41:17 One of the great tragedies of the epidemic of abuse and corruption in the evangelic church is that it is pushing people away from Jesus. And many because of the hurt that they’ve experienced are beginning to deconstruct their faith. And I’m not dissing deconstruction. Many of us need to go back and reevaluate a lot of the beliefs that we took in and begin to think about those and we need a safe place to do that in. We need people who are safe people to do that with, we need safe people. We need to be safe people. And I’d be lying if I didn’t say that what I have been exposed to hasn’t caused me to doubt my faith. In fact, the hardest question for me has been does Christianity, does it make people worse? Or does it make people better? Because I’ve seen some really devout Christians who have incredible grip of Scripture, incredible grip of theology much better than I do. And yet they are some of the most wicked people I have ever known in my life. And I tell you what I’ve become convinced of, I’ve concluded that Christianity, divorce from a vibrant relationship with Jesus Christ and reduced to a theological system, a moralistic system, or God forbid, a political one is absolutely heinous. And it does make people into monsters.   Julie Roys  43:06 But I believe a vibrant relationship with Jesus Christ is not only helpful in helping us deal with the vilest thing of this world, it is 100% essential. I know my relationship with Jesus has sustained me over the past 18 months. I remember several weeks before last year’s RESTORE conference, and I was a mess, and Dr. Diane Langberg got on a zoom call with me for about 90 minutes. And she was so loving, and so gracious, which I’m sure is not hard for you to imagine. And she was Jesus to me. And I remember saying to her, Diane, the hardest part about this whole thing to me is that I’ve been accused of these awful things, and I can’t say anything. I remember having a very close friend who said, Julie, if you step down from that conference, everybody’s going to assume that everything that was said about you is true. And Diane said to me, she said, Julie, this is an opportunity for you to enter into Christ’s sufferings. And initially, I thought about that very much in a martyr sort of way. Because if you’ve been wronged in some way, it’s really really easy to get a martyr complex. Super easy. But it hasn’t been like that.   Julie Roys  44:43 So, I had a very profound experience with a spiritual coach mentor about, I don’t know, seven or eight months ago where we were just doing some breathing exercises because I was kind of worked up. It’s hard to imagine I know. And while we’re in the process of this, she said, just experience the Lord’s compassion. And that morning, I had read about Jesus in the garden of Gethsemane. And I began imagining being in the garden of Gethsemane with Jesus. I have a pretty vivid imagination. So, I’m there and I’m looking at his face and I see just incredible pain on his face. And it strikes me he’s just been betrayed by one of his 12 closest companions. And one of his three closest friends is going to deny him three times. And I felt betrayed by people who are frankly kind to strangers. I don’t really even know any more. And then Jesus is literally sweating, beads of blood. I had gone through some emotional trauma; I’ve never done that. And then Jesus is thinking about this in the night before he’s going on the cross. I began thinking of this, he’s going to be tortured to death the next day. I have never in my life been tortured for my faith. I read Miriam’s book, and I was devastated. What that woman has gone through, and she has overcome. I am in awe of her. Jesus suffered. The immensity of His suffering began to hit me. And I in that moment, finally didn’t feel sorry for myself. And somehow, in that whole process, I felt more unified with Jesus than I’d ever felt before. And there was this oneness, and somehow now what I had gone through had meaning and that made all the difference in the world. I’ve also been thinking about the fact that Jesus died for his enemies. I have enemies now. I don’t think I had enemies before I started reporting. Like I people didn’t like me. But enemies. I mean, somebody really bent on your destruction like that, actually schemes about it. I have those now. Some of you have those now. I’m having a tough enough time forgiving them. Dying for them? Man. And here’s where it gets tough because Jesus says we’re supposed to have the same attitude that he had.   Julie Roys  47:29 I was challenged by a friend several years ago, to just read through the Old Testament, and read about every single time that a prophet brings a word of judgment to people. It took me several months, but I went ahead and did it. And something dawned on me. Every time that God gave a prophet a harsh word to say to his people, it was never because he wanted to destroy them. We see this in the story of Jonah, right? You all know the story. Jonah is told to go to the Ninevites. Nineveh is the capital of the Assyrian bloodthirsty, hostile people, the enemies of the Israelites. And what does he do? He goes to Tarsus gets on a ship and they go out to the Mediterranean. The big storm comes they throw him overboard, fish swallow them, he’s in the fish three days, vomited up on dry land, and he says, Okay, fine, I’ll go to Nineveh, goes to Nineveh for three days. He tells the Ninevites that in 40 days, God’s going to destroy you. And then the Ninevites do a most remarkable thing. They actually repent and God has mercy on them. But Jonah, what does he do? He becomes despondent. He says to the Lord, oh, Lord, is this not what I said when I was in my country? That is why I made haste to flee to Tarsus, for I knew that you are a gracious God and merciful, slow to anger and abounding in steadfast love unrelenting from disaster. Therefore,  oh Lord, please take my life for me. For it is better for me to die than to live. Jonah had become every bit as hard-hearted as the people that he hated. And if that can happen to a prophet of God, it can happen to me, can happen to any one of us.   Julie Roys  49:29 So, this is kind of a heart check for us. This heart check for me, I began to think about this. Like what if John MacArthur repented? It’s hard to imagine. The man’s never apologized that I know of. That’s what I’m told from everybody near him. But let’s imagine he did. What if John MacArthur went to Eileen Gray, and he said, Eileen, I’m so sorry. When your husband tried to suffocate your daughter and the abuse was so brutal in your home that you came to the church, you came to us for help. And instead of helping you, we told you to drop that protective order that you would have gotten against him to protect, not you, but your children. And in front of the entire church, I, the shepherd shamed and excommunicated you simply for trying to protect your children. And years later, years later when it came out that he had sexually abused your children and was convicted by court, and you know how hard it is to be convicted in California of child abuse? And they sent him to prison? I still maligned you, and I protected your abuser. Oh, Eileen, I am so sorry. I have sinned against you. I’ve sinned against my church; will you forgive me? Or what if he went to Wendy Gray and, Wendy, when you came to me, or when your father came to me when you were just a teenager, and he confessed to my face, that he had sexually molested you, and I kept him on staff another three years and I wrote you that handwritten note telling you to forgive your father? That was wrong, that was a sin against you. And years later, decades later, when that action of mine had devastated your life, and you simply came to me because you wanted support going to the elders of the church, where your father was still pastoring. And at this point, you knew that he was a serial abuser, he was abusing many people because that’s what pedophiles do. Instead of coming with you instead of supporting you, instead of repenting for what I did, I said in an email to you, why has this become such an obsession for you? That devastated you. That was my fault. I am so sorry. Will you forgive me for that? Do I want John MacArthur to receive grace? Do I want him to repent? or would I rather him see his maker and try and make that excuse to him? Honestly? It’s a little bit of a struggle. But I thought about that. Imagine if John MacArthur repented? I mean, really repented? Can you imagine the ripple effect that would have? How many pastors that would affect in this church? Can you imagine what that would do? Unbelievable what would happen if John MacArthur repented. Would I rejoice at that? You bet I’d rejoice at that. That could be the start of revival in this church. That’s what we need to see – is pastors repenting.   Julie Roys  53:09 But I tell you what, that is not natural for me. I tell you what’s natural for me. When somebody hurts me, I want them to hurt in the same way that they hurt me. Can I get an amen? That’s human nature, isn’t it? The only reason that I have any grace in my heart is because of Jesus Christ. Because I wouldn’t have it without him. And without him, I would become a monster, I am convinced of it. And that’s why one of many reasons why I need Jesus. But now I’m going to say something a little bit controversial. I’ve also found that I need Christian community. And I know some of you have been so burned by your Christian community, and I don’t blame you for not wanting to darken the doors of the church. Three and a half years ago, we lost a church, or we left the church that I thought we would be in the rest of our lives. I thought it was different. I loved that church dearly. I loved the people in it. But the last straw for us was when they covered up sex abuse. And at that point, we just couldn’t trust the leadership anymore. And for two years, we went from church to church to church to church, and it was unbelievably depressing. And I won’t go into all the reasons it was depressing. I think you all know. But two weeks before everything blew up in my life when this whole controversy hit last year. Two weeks before that a professional colleague invited me to his house church. And here’s what’s kind of ironic, that professional call I happen to be the CEO of Christianity Today. Now, if you know anything about my past, which you may not, I have not had a great relationship with Christianity Today. That CEO, though, has since publicly apologized for some of the stuff that CT did to me under his predecessor. But two weeks before this happened, I was like, Great, yeah, I’ll try anything at this point. So, my husband and I went to the church, the house church. And it was great, we loved it. I was like, this is really super. Between week one and week two, everything in my world blew up, and I had to resign from the conference. And I remember walking into that house church with people I knew two weeks. And I wasn’t really planning on sharing this. But somebody noticed something I had said, and then when we were in small groups, they said something, and I just, and I’m bawling in front of people I don’t even know, hardly. But over the past 18 months, that’s become my Christian community. And I was invited into a women’s cohort. And that became a support for me. And the leader of the women’s cohort said, “Julie, do you have a prayer team? And I said, Well, I used to have a prayer team, but it’s kind of fizzled. And I don’t honestly even have the strength to put one together. And she says, I’ll do it for you. And so, once a month, we have this really sweet prayer time with a small group of people. And they’ve been some of the best times for me, and I honestly shudder to think of where I would be right now, if for the past 18 months, I had done that in isolation. And so, I’m so grateful for Christians in my life, who have been the hands and the feet of Jesus to me and who have loved me. And I don’t know. I can’t speak to your situation. I know some of you feel like you’re in a wasteland. And I know you feel like all the churches in your area are bad. And I don’t, I’m not even going to argue with you. I would just encourage you to not give up, to not give up. And to keep hoping, keep pressing into Jesus keep looking for Christian community. And I don’t know how God will meet that in your life. But I just trust he will because that’s just God’s nature. And I don’t know how long the wasteland will be, but it won’t last forever.   Julie Roys  57:40 So, we’re going to close this conference the way we close every single RESTORE conference, and that’s with communion. And Paul Lundquist, who is a local pastor who has been a dear friend of this ministry, and so supportive of what we’re doing is going to come and lead us in communion where we celebrate not just our oneness with Christ, but our oneness together as his body. So, Paul, would you come?   Julie Roys  58:05 Well, I hope you’ve been encouraged by what you just heard. And I wish you could have been there to experience communion together with those dear and beautiful souls at the RESTORE conference. That is a memory I will not soon forget. And I hope you’ll make it a point to join us at the next RESTORE conference, which we’ll be announcing soon. Also, I want to mention that the videos of these talks are all available at my YouTube channel. And we’re not charging anything for those. We just really want as many people as possible to benefit from these RESTORE conference talks. But friends, I’m sure you’re aware that producing these podcasts and videos is not cheap. So, if you appreciate this content and you’re able to help, would you please consider donating to The Roys Report, especially as you’re considering your end of the year donations, please remember us and the work that we do. We’re running a bit in the red this year so your gifts are especially critical, so we can continue podcasting and reporting at the same level. To donate just go to JULIEROYS.COM/DONATE. Also, just a quick reminder to subscribe to The Roys Report on Apple podcasts, Google podcasts, Spotify, or YouTube. That way you’ll never miss an episode. And while you’re at it, I’d really appreciate it if you’d help us spread the word about the podcast by leaving a review. And then please share the podcast on social media so more people can hear about this great content. Again, thanks so much for joining me today. Hope you were blessed and encouraged. Read more

Luke 5:33-39 - Rev. Andy Wood

Brian, Blake, and Richard are back for an all-new episode of the Chasing Tone Podcast!There is some prime guitar related content, allegedly, as the guys look at a recent moment of controversy involving a guitar learning tool and Richard makes a shocking personal revelation or two. Brian, on the other hand, has been arguing with machines. It is exactly as moronic as it sounds. Blake tries to inject some sensibility back into the conversation with limited success. Blake wears two different hats, and reminds us he doesn't like one of the bestselling pedals of all time. Brian fires Richard on air before backing down and reaching an agreement about the best way to learn the guitar. Richard nearly knows all the chords and Brian mocks British bands of the 1990's. Some footage of Mr Oliver playing drums with Andy Wood has been leaked to the internet. How do you feel about music while you eat? Blake has views and the guys chat about the pros and cons while Richard mentions a recent story involving a world famous producer and the loudness of a DJ , and Blake demonstrates his ability to deliver the worst Mick Jagger vocal impersonation ever. Brian has invented a new club for dullards, and Richard has found a new amp to GAS over from the boffins at ENGL. Ai Batman reads the credits. Distorto-distortion,  Rocksmith. Wu Tang, English Violence, The Frowning Freddies, It's all about angles, Frewed?...it's all in this week's Chasing Tone!This episode is sponsored by the fine folk at Stringjoy.comThanks to all our supporters - you are awesome!We are on Patreon now too!Support the show (https://www.patreon.com/chasingtonepodcast)Awesome Merch and DIY mods:https://modyourownpedal.com/collections/booksFind us at:https://www.wamplerpedals.com/https://www.instagram.com/WamplerPedals/https://www.facebook.com/groups/wamplerfanpage/Youtube:https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCdVrg4Wl3vjIxonABn6RfWwContact us at: podcast@wamplerpedals.comSupport the show

Brian, Blake, and Richard are back for an all-new episode of the Chasing Tone Podcast!Brian has been dabbling with technology whereas Blake's mind is going at a million miles a minute and he may just be losing his mind.  This is the result of caffeine abuse and Brian is confused. Blake has been to see a punk band which leads to a debate about the best looking Les Paul ever. Whats the most annoying injury you can have as a guitar player? Richard has a theory and expounds upon it.Richard found himself not just attending but also presenting at a masterclass with Wampler Artist (and friend of the show) Andy Wood - and so the self titled 'English King of Fuzz' expounded on his knowledge. He also got to look at a very special Les Paul and tells us all about it. There was a really cool coincidence and there was really hot Indian food and a secret jam may or may not have taken place with the Electric Love Aquatone.The guys have discovered a new guitar gimmick and they discuss the merits of it and Brian has a number of product ideas. Richard apologises to the Big F as he was given a bum steer on some information about the Tone Master Pro.  He also has some further DIY questions for Professor Wampler and so is schooled in a methodology that may or may not serve him for life. Brian saw some UFOs and has a minor Patreon update. Airnold Schwarzenegger reads the credits.  Doc Martens, Cheap pedalboards, Bobbins, The Iron Horse pub, Megadeth, The Martinsville glove, Tractor Racing...it's all in this week's Chasing Tone!This episode is sponsored by the fine folk at Stringjoy.comThanks to all our supporters - you are awesome!We are on Patreon now too!Support the show (https://www.patreon.com/chasingtonepodcast)Awesome Merch and DIY mods:https://modyourownpedal.com/collections/booksFind us at:https://www.wamplerpedals.com/https://www.instagram.com/WamplerPedals/https://www.facebook.com/groups/wamplerfanpage/Youtube:https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCdVrg4Wl3vjIxonABn6RfWwContact us at: podcast@wamplerpedals.comSupport the show

Matt Kirshen, Andy Wood, and Jesse Case of Probably Science join gabrus to talk about stolen valor in the world of science.Check out gabrus' other podcast, Action Boyz.Check out 101 Places to Party Before You Die now streaming on MaxShout out to Athletic Greens for sponsoring this episode.Athletic Greens is giving you a FREE 1-year supply of Vitamin D and 5 free travel packs with your first purchase at athleticgreens.com/MIGHTY.Advertise on High & Mighty via Gumball.fm.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Description: Saddleback Content Development Pastor Jason Wieland is joined by Bayside Church Teaching Pastor/Rapper Brannon Shortt. Storytelling is one of the oldest and most-used forms of communication in human history. We use stories to teach lessons to little kids (think Aesop's fables or fairy tales) and we continue to learn from stories as adults (think of the great works of literature, film, music). Another place we often hear stories is during church. We don't just hear or read the stories from the Bible, but preachers often incorporate stories into their sermons as a way to highlight a point or provide context for what they are teaching. Today's guest, Brannon Shortt, is a preacher, rapper, and candlemaker. Brannon was a pastor at Saddleback Church before moving to Northern California where he now serves as a Teaching Pastor at Bayside Church and recently released a new album titled The Attic under his musical artist name, BShortt. In this conversation, Brannon and Jason talk about the power of story and how we can share our faith in many different ways. Doable Discipleship is a Saddleback Church podcast produced and hosted by the Saddleback Spiritual Growth Team. It premiered in 2017 and now offers more than 300 episodes. Episodes release every Tuesday on your favorite podcast app and on the Saddleback Church YouTube Channel (https://www.youtube.com/saddleback). Doable Discipleship is a proud part of the Saddleback Family of Podcasts. To learn more about the Saddleback Family of Podcasts, visit saddleback.com/podcasts.Related Links: Bshortt on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/artist/1vSAVAyGtzVOK4TyHrwUGQhttps://www.facebook.com/celebraterecoverysaddlebackchurchhttps://celebraterecovery.comRetreat information: https://saddleback.com/connect/ministry/retreat-ministry/lakeforest?Interested in joining or hosting a group? Visit https://saddleback.com/smallgroups.https://saddleback.thinkific.com/courses/foundationshttps://saddleback.com/coronaresponse for additional tools for a better response.To tell a friend about Doable Discipleship or share it on your social media, use saddleback.com/doable.For more resources to help you grow, visit saddleback.com/grow or email maturity@saddleback.com.

Saddleback Church Content Development Pastor Jason Wieland is joined by Dr. Carmen Joy Imes to discuss her new book, Being God's Image: Why Creation Still Matters. What does it mean to be human? This question is something that everybody wrestles with at different points of life. In this conversation, Jason and Dr. Imes discuss what being God's image means; the connection between creation and vocation; what Genesis, the Wisdom literature, and the New Testament say about this; the power of beloved community, and what we can do to live out a life made in God's image. Dr. Carmen Joy Imes (PhD, Wheaton) is associate professor of Old Testament at Biola University. She is the author of Bearing God's Name: Why Sinai Still Matters, Bearing YHWH'S Name at Sinai, and the editor of Praying the Psalms with Augustine and Friends. Doable Discipleship is a Saddleback Church podcast produced and hosted by the Saddleback Spiritual Growth Team. It premiered in 2017 and now offers more than 300 episodes. Episodes release every Tuesday on your favorite podcast app and on the Saddleback Church YouTube Channel (https://www.youtube.com/saddleback). Doable Discipleship is a proud part of the Saddleback Family of Podcasts. To learn more about the Saddleback Family of Podcasts, visit saddleback.com/podcasts.Related Links: Being God's Image: Why Creation Still MattersBearing God's Name: Why Sinai Still MattersJust Discipleship: Biblical Justice in an Unjust World by Michael J. RhodesBeing God's Image – E-coursehttps://www.facebook.com/celebraterecoverysaddlebackchurchhttps://celebraterecovery.comRetreat information: https://saddleback.com/connect/ministry/retreat-ministry/lakeforest?Interested in joining or hosting a group? Visit https://saddleback.com/smallgroups.https://saddleback.thinkific.com/courses/foundationshttps://saddleback.com/coronaresponse for additional tools for a better response.To tell a friend about Doable Discipleship or share it on your social media, use saddleback.com/doable.For more resources to help you grow, visit saddleback.com/grow or email maturity@saddleback.com.

Description: Saddleback Church Content Development Pastor Jason Wieland is joined by Dr. Douglas Groothuis to talk about his new book, World Religions in Seven Sentences. The conversation discusses why Christians should learn about other world religions, and then looks a three religions or thoughts discussed in the book, Atheism, Judaism, and Islam. The episode also discusses the rise of “Apathy-ism” and the growing movement of people who don't want to give any time or energy into thinking about spiritual matters at all.Dr. Douglas Groothuis is professor of philosophy at Denver Seminary. He is the author of numerous books, including Christian Apologetics, Philosophy in Seven Sentences, and others. Doable Discipleship is a Saddleback Church podcast produced and hosted by the Saddleback Spiritual Growth Team. It premiered in 2017 and now offers more than 300 episodes. Episodes release every Tuesday on your favorite podcast app and on the Saddleback Church YouTube Channel (https://www.youtube.com/saddleback). Doable Discipleship is a proud part of the Saddleback Family of Podcasts. To learn more about the Saddleback Family of Podcasts, visit saddleback.com/podcasts.Related Links: World Religions in Seven SentencesChristian ApologeticsReasonable Faith PodcastThe Case for Christhttps://www.facebook.com/celebraterecoverysaddlebackchurchhttps://celebraterecovery.comRetreat information: https://saddleback.com/connect/ministry/retreat-ministry/lakeforest?Interested in joining or hosting a group? Visit https://saddleback.com/smallgroups.https://saddleback.thinkific.com/courses/foundationshttps://saddleback.com/coronaresponse for additional tools for a better response.To tell a friend about Doable Discipleship or share it on your social media, use saddleback.com/doable.For more resources to help you grow, visit saddleback.com/grow or email maturity@saddleback.com.

Brian, Blake, and Richard are back for an all-new episode of the Chasing Tone Podcast!Brian and Blake come at Richard with some stereotyping and then Richard confesses he has been listening to some country music and some classic American rock. Is this a negative reality inversion? Meanwhile Blake tells us about a recent vacation where he got to play a guitar that needed serious setup. Brian asks about Richard's DIY and immediately regrets at least some of it and we soon discover its now turned into a bonafide addiction and a risk of fire. It's like Brian has opened up a whole new world for Richard as he babbles away about J201s and resistor values.  A video of Van Halen performing in the UK in the 1980s surfaced for about 24 hours and there was an insane Eddie solo that the guys talk about prior to discussing the restoration of another classic rock film. Meanwhile Brian's been to  Nashville to hang out with the legendary Brent Mason and tells us about his preparations for the Andy Wood 'Woodshed Guitar Experience' - which he is definitely excited about.  Blake ruminates about next year's NAMM. Fender have lifted their UK prices which has caused some consternation, and this leads on to some conversation about some new special edition guitars. Blake gives us some logical reasons for Fenders pricing strategy.  Have you ever had much experience with flying with a guitar? How did that work out for you? Brian tells us a tale and the guys chat about different strategies for travelling long distance with your guitar.   Bonnie Raitt, Calming flute music, Symmetrical clipping, Internet wit, Mountain facts, Livestock pricing...it's all in this week's Chasing Tone!We are on Patreon now too!Support the show (https://www.patreon.com/chasingtonepodcast)Awesome Merch and DIY mods:https://modyourownpedal.com/collections/booksFind us at:https://www.wamplerpedals.com/https://www.instagram.com/WamplerPedals/https://www.facebook.com/groups/wamplerfanpage/Youtube:https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCdVrg4Wl3vjIxonABn6RfWwContact us at: podcast@wamplerpedals.comSupport the show

Description: Saddleback Church Content Development Pastor Jason Wieland is joined by Saddleback Spiritual Growth Pastors Brandon Bathauer and Linda Tokar for a Books of the Bible Draft. It's the time of year when many people do their fantasy football drafts. Here on Doable Discipleship, we draft too – just in a different way. In 2022 we did a People of the Bible Draft and this year we set our sights on the Books of the Bible. The premise: Which 5 books of the Bible would you want if you were stranded on a deserted island. The twist: this year we introduce categories. Each person has to draft 1 book from each of the following categories: Old Testament (non-prophet), Major Prophet, Minor Prophet, Gospel, and New Testament (non-Gospel). Once a book is selected, it cannot be chosen by another person. This is a really fun episode that takes a good look at some of your favorite books of the Bible. Doable Discipleship is a Saddleback Church podcast produced and hosted by the Saddleback Spiritual Growth Team. It premiered in 2017 and now offers more than 300 episodes. Episodes release every Tuesday on your favorite podcast app and on the Saddleback Church YouTube Channel (https://www.youtube.com/saddleback). Doable Discipleship is a proud part of the Saddleback Family of Podcasts. To learn more about the Saddleback Family of Podcasts, visit saddleback.com/podcasts.Related Links: Doable Discipleship – The People of the Bible DraftKnow Your Bible by Paul Kenthttps://www.facebook.com/celebraterecoverysaddlebackchurchhttps://celebraterecovery.comRetreat information: https://saddleback.com/connect/ministry/retreat-ministry/lakeforest?Interested in joining or hosting a group? Visit https://saddleback.com/smallgroups.https://saddleback.thinkific.com/courses/foundationshttps://saddleback.com/coronaresponse for additional tools for a better response.To tell a friend about Doable Discipleship or share it on your social media, use saddleback.com/doable.For more resources to help you grow, visit saddleback.com/grow or email maturity@saddleback.com.

Description: Saddleback Church Content Development Pastor Jason Wieland is joined by Dr. Jim Papandrea, author of the book How Christianity Saved Civilization . . . And Must Do So Again. The conversation discusses different ways in which Christianity revolutionized the ancient world and how we should consider Christianity's role in the modern world.Dr. Jim Papandrea is Professor of Church History and Historical Theology. He is on the faculty of the Garrett-Evangelical Theological Seminary and a senior fellow at the St. Paul Center for Biblical Theology. Doable Discipleship is a Saddleback Church podcast produced and hosted by the Saddleback Spiritual Growth Team. It premiered in 2017 and now offers more than 300 episodes. Episodes release every Tuesday on your favorite podcast app and on the Saddleback Church YouTube Channel (https://www.youtube.com/saddleback). Doable Discipleship is a proud part of the Saddleback Family of Podcasts. To learn more about the Saddleback Family of Podcasts, visit saddleback.com/podcasts.Related Links: How Christianity Saved Civilization . . . And Must Do So AgainReading the Church FathersDoable Discipleship – Why the Story of the Church Mattershttps://www.facebook.com/celebraterecoverysaddlebackchurchhttps://celebraterecovery.comRetreat information: https://saddleback.com/connect/ministry/retreat-ministry/lakeforest?Interested in joining or hosting a group? Visit https://saddleback.com/smallgroups.https://saddleback.thinkific.com/courses/foundationshttps://saddleback.com/coronaresponse for additional tools for a better response.To tell a friend about Doable Discipleship or share it on your social media, use saddleback.com/doable.For more resources to help you grow, visit saddleback.com/grow or email maturity@saddleback.com.

Description:Saddleback Church Content Development Pastor Jason Wieland is joined by Dr. John Mark Reynolds to discuss the connection between ancient philosophy, reading the great books, and Christianity. They discusses why Christians should care about philosophy, what we mean when we say “The Western Canon” of literature, the power of work that lasts, and how people can get started learning more about these topics.Dr. Reynolds is the President of the Saint Constantine School, a Senior Fellow in the humanities at The Kings College and a Fellow of the Center for Science and Culture at The Discovery Institute. He is the former provost of Houston Baptist University. He is the founder and director of the Torrey Honors Institute, the Socratic, great books-centered honors program at Biola University. Doable Discipleship is a Saddleback Church podcast produced and hosted by the Saddleback Spiritual Growth Team. It premiered in 2017 and now offers more than 300 episodes. Episodes release every Tuesday on your favorite podcast app and on the Saddleback Church YouTube Channel (https://www.youtube.com/saddleback). Doable Discipleship is a proud part of the Saddleback Family of Podcasts. To learn more about the Saddleback Family of Podcasts, visit saddleback.com/podcasts.Related Links: When Athens Met Jerusalem: An Introduction to Classical and Christian ThoughtThe Great Books Readerhttps://www.facebook.com/celebraterecoverysaddlebackchurchhttps://celebraterecovery.comRetreat information: https://saddleback.com/connect/ministry/retreat-ministry/lakeforest?Interested in joining or hosting a group? Visit https://saddleback.com/smallgroups.https://saddleback.thinkific.com/courses/foundationshttps://saddleback.com/coronaresponse for additional tools for a better response.To tell a friend about Doable Discipleship or share it on your social media, use saddleback.com/doable.For more resources to help you grow, visit saddleback.com/grow or email maturity@saddleback.com.

Live from the Dynasty Typewriter in Los Angeles, Doug welcomes Bobby Moynihan, Nichole Sakura, Iliza Shlesinger and Andy Wood to the show.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Andy Wood did what many people thought (in his own words) "only an idiot might do"—become the pastor who follows Rick Warren. Andy breaks down the details of how the surprising call to Saddleback happened, exactly what they did during the transition, and how the congregations involved navigated the grief and promise of transition. Stacie Wood, Teaching Pastor at Saddleback, also joins the podcast later to discuss women in ministry and being kicked out of the SBC.  Show Notes Attend the Live Recording! Leadership Accelerator On the Rise Newsletter