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"So above all, guard the affections of your heart, for they affect all that you are. Pay attention to the welfare of your innermost being, for from there flows the wellspring of life.” Proverbs 4:23 TPT   *Transcription Below*   Thank You to Our Sponsor: The Sue Neihouser Team   Katie M. Reid is an author, speaker, podcast host, and songwriter who inspires others to live out their purpose with tenacity, wisdom and grace at katiemreid.com. She is the author of Made Like Martha: Good News for the Woman Who Gets Things Done, A Very Bavarian Christmas novel (which is becoming a movie) and the co-creator of The Digital Peace Pact and the Check Your Selfie Story-Coloring Book. Katie is also the co-host of The Martha + Mary Show podcast. As the Inspiration Doula, Katie coaches creatives, helping them bring life to their projects. Her album, Echoes of My Heart, the Daughter song, and The Very Bavarian Christmas musical soundtrack can be accessed here and on other music streaming platforms. Katie delights in her husband and five children. Musicals, iced tea, and cut-to-the-chase conversations are a few of her favorite things.   Questions and Topics Discussed: As a woman who excels in getting things done, what tips can you share as it relates to getting things done around our home? What are some of the changes you've made to your lifestyle that have led to the greatest results? What habits and rhythms do you have in place to support your personal development and spiritual growth?   Other Episodes Mentioned from The Savvy Sauce During Episode: 183 Leading Your Family, Marriage, and Self with Justin Maust Patreon 47: Business, Leadership, and Legacy with Justin Maust    Other Episode Mentioned During Episode: Mary & Martha Show: Benefits of Chiropractic Care with Dr. Lianne Coombe   Other Related Episodes on The Savvy Sauce: 81 Sacred Rest with Doctor, Author, and Speaker, Dr. Saundra Dalton-Smith 150 Brain Science and Spiritual Abundance with Ken Baugh 256 Gut Health, Allergies, Inflammation and Proactive Solutions with Emily Macleod-Wolfe   Gospel Scripture: (all NIV) Romans 3:23 “for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,”   Romans 3:24 “and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.”   Romans 3:25 (a) “God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood.”    Hebrews 9:22 (b) “without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.”    Romans 5:8 “But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.”    Romans 5:11 “Not only is this so, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.”    John 3:16 “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.”   Romans 10:9 “That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.”    Luke 15:10 says “In the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents.”   Romans 8:1 “Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus”   Ephesians 1:13–14 “And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God's possession- to the praise of his glory.”   Ephesians 1:15–23 “For this reason, ever since I heard about your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love for all the saints, I have not stopped giving thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers. I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the spirit of wisdom and revelation, so that you may know him better. I pray also that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened in order that you may know the hope to which he has called you, the riches of his glorious inheritance in the saints, and his incomparably great power for us who believe. That power is like the working of his mighty strength, which he exerted in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms, far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every title that can be given, not only in the present age but also in the one to come. And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church, which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way.”   Ephesians 2:8–10 “For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith – and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God – not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God‘s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.“   Ephesians 2:13 “But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ.“   Philippians 1:6 “being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.”   *Transcription*   Music: (0:00 – 0:09)   Laura Dugger: (0:11 - 1:29) Welcome to The Savvy Sauce, where we have practical chats for intentional living. I'm your host, Laura Dugger, and I'm so glad you're here.   Thank you to the Sue Neihouser Team for sponsoring this episode.   If you're looking to buy or sell a home this season, make sure you reach out to Sue at 309-229-8831. Sue would love to walk alongside you as you unlock new doors.   Welcome to the final episode of The Savvy Sauce for 2025. We look so forward to meeting you back here after today's episode on Monday, January 5th.   But for today, my guest is Katie Reid. She is wildly creative and also completely grounded in her faith.   She's an author, speaker, former podcaster, and coach for creatives. She's going to share on a variety of topics today, ranging from health to discerning God's leading for what's next in each of our lives. Here's our chat.   Welcome to The Savvy Sauce, Katie.   Katie Reid: (1:30 - 1:33) Thank you so much for having me, Laura. This is such a treat.   Laura Dugger: (1:33 - 1:45) Oh, it's a delight to get a chat with you. And I want to go back. I want to hear the origins of your writing and podcasting journey and how it's led to the work that you get to do today.   Katie Reid: (1:46 - 3:00) Well, in about 2014, I had a bucket list. And on that bucket list, there were things like make a quilt and sing the national anthem in a professional sporting event and bake an apple pie and writing a book was on it. And so, Laura, I've always been a very driven and purposeful person.   So, it felt like it was the time to write a book. And I had no idea how hard it was going to be and that it would accidentally turn into a career that I forgot to ask my husband if I could start. But it was when I started writing and I had been writing, you know, just as a kid here and there.   But it turned into what I did as a career. And it was not necessarily easy. But God has refined me through the process.   And so, my first book Made Like Martha came out in 2018. And then I have dabbled in fiction books as well. And then I have a Bible study that is out now.   God, What Do I Do? based on Judges one through five. So, I kind of write a little bit of everything. And it's been a wild and wonderful journey.   Laura Dugger: (3:01 - 3:07) Wild and wonderful for sure. Going back to that bucket list, have the other ones also become realities as well?   Katie Reid: (3:08 - 3:28) You know, I have sang the national anthem at some not  professional sporting events, but, you know, high school events and that kind of thing at my college. I have made an apple pie. My mom is a quilter and I just decided she can do that.   I kind of removed that off the list. But now I can check off, write a book.   Laura Dugger: (3:28 - 3:53) That's incredible, which is a huge undertaking. So, thank you for your labor of love. And even going back, I love how you've identified that you kind of relate more to the Martha personality rather than the Mary personality.   So, can you define what that means and share some of the benefits and the drawbacks of each personality leaning?   Katie Reid: (3:54 - 6:41) Sure. So, in the Bible, in Luke 10:38-42, we meet two sisters, Martha and Mary, and they had a brother, Lazarus, as well, and they were friends of Jesus. And Martha it seems like your firstborn type A, you know, to do list kind of gal.   And Mary was like a disciple of Jesus sitting at his feet, maybe more relationally driven. And so, when I read this story that has, you know, Martha gets a lot of flack because a lot of people like, “Oh, we need to all be like Mary.” And so, this story, I always wanted it to go differently.   Martha goes to Jesus. She's worried and distracted by all her preparations. She's housing or hosting Jesus and his disciples at her home.   And Mary's sitting there listening to Jesus teaching. And so, Martha goes to Jesus and says in the Katy paraphrase, “Hey, Jesus, I'm here doing this all by myself. Tell Mary to get off her duff and help me.”   And I so, Laura, wanted Jesus to say, “Martha, you are right. Mary, get in there and help your sister.” But that's not what he did.   And so, I want to take a closer look at the story and see what did God really say? Because I think over time, we've probably read books or heard different sermons that paints Martha in a certain light. And I wanted to see for myself, you know, have we added things to this that aren't really there?   And what I discovered is, you know, Jesus made us. We know this from Psalm 139 on purpose and for a purpose and intricately. And so, it was no mistake that Martha was made to do and to get things done.   But she got a little out of whack kind of with her heart posture, as I say, you know, kind of trying to strive and earn versus working from a place of love. She was working for love and she already had that love right there in Jesus in her home. And so, that's what Made Like Martha is about.   But I see how, you know, a lot of us are a blend of both of these women, you know, task oriented, relational oriented. But I think we lean more one way or the other. But the world needs all kinds of people in it.   And so, I think sometimes we view it as a competition when actually it's just different. But we can never go wrong with sitting at Jesus's feet. But also, we can be at peace and settled on the inside in our relationship with the Lord, even when our hands are busy.   Because if we just all sit, things will not get done. And, you know, we are both busy moms, Laura. And, you know, there's just there's a to do list every day, isn't there?   Laura Dugger: (6:41 - 7:00) There is. But you are someone who really does excel at getting those things done. Like you said, it's in your wiring from the Lord.   So, what tips can you share with all of us? And maybe starting with how does that specifically look for getting things done around our home?   Katie Reid: (7:01 - 8:47) Yes, I think there's a resource I have on my website that we can share in the show notes, and it's called the “All Done Calendar.” And I don't know about you, Laura, but my to do list can have like 25 things on it, which is just very unrealistic. Right.   I am not going to get 25 things done in a day. And so, I created this all done calendar and it's a blank calendar. It's got some pretty designs on it.   And what you do is you write down a few things each day that you actually got done. And cleaning half of the bathroom can totally count. You don't even have to do the whole thing. But it's a way to celebrate what you've already done instead of just being fixated on all there's left to do. And so, that's something that helps me is to be like, OK, I did not get the 25 things done. But what with the Lord's help did I get done?   And sometimes I might have had these really lofty goals, but maybe instead I had a meaningful conversation with my team. Or maybe instead I left the dishes and sat down and watched a movie with my family and likely fell asleep 10 minutes in because I sat down. But I think we can just feel, especially in this Pinterest world and comparison with social media, we can feel like we're behind all the time.   And so, this all done calendar is just a really practical way to just look back over the month and be like, look what I did do. And sure, there could be lots of things left, but it's a way to just remind ourselves of what we have in that gratitude. I call it a lavish list instead of a lack list.   You know, instead of counting all the things you don't have, give thanks for all the things you do.   Laura Dugger: (8:48 - 9:05) Wow. And that gratitude really does change everything when our mindset is changed. Do you have any other tips that you use then for meal planning or logistics?   Because you can introduce us to your family as well. You've got quite a few kids with your husband.   Katie Reid: (9:05 - 11:47) We do. We have five kids. The oldest is almost 21. She's a girl. Our youngest is a girl also, and she's almost nine. And then we have three boys in the middle, 18, 16, and 12.   And so, we are a lively and a loud family. I think for me with meal planning, I actually do enjoy cooking and my daughter had a lot of culinary training. So, I know some women are just like, it happens every day and I don't like it.   But what I often do with our busy schedule is on Saturday or maybe Sunday afternoon, I like to cook things in bulk. So, maybe I'll make a soup and some taco meat and put pulled pork in the crock pot so that we can kind of eat off that. And during the week, I kind of batch cook.   So, I don't feel like I'm doing it all the time. And we also from a young age have equipped our kids to make their food. I remember we had someone stay with us, Laura, and they were like almost appalled.   They're like, “I mean, these young kids just got up and made their own food. Where was the mom?” And my husband said, “That's actually what we've trained them to do.”   I mean, they were getting like cereal. The other day, the baby of the family is almost nine and we do probably too much for her as one tends to do with their youngest child. And so, I equipped her and empowered her.   I said, “You know, Lark, you can make your own eggs.” And so, sure enough, she got a stool. I just reminded her to spray the pan and turn off the oven.   And she made herself, you know, eggs with bacon bits in it. And you can see that sense of pride. She was a little hesitant at first.   But I believe in working smarter, not harder. And so, we do divvy up, you know, chores around the house. In fact, I dare not say this too loudly.   But when I started writing, my husband said to our kids who were quite a lot younger at the time, “Guess what? Mom's not doing the dishes anymore. So, you guys are each going to have a night or two. And you're going to do those because we want her to be faithful to what God has also asked her to do. And you guys need to learn how to do this.” And so, Laura, when they first started loading the dishwasher, I had to fold my hands because they were not doing it in the way I would have envisioned.   But it was still getting it done. So, I have this little mantra. If someone else can do it with at least 75 percent, you know, effectiveness, then that should be good enough.   Because I think sometimes as women, we kind of want it my way or the highway. But then we wear ourselves out because we're trying to control or manage everything. And sometimes 75 percent is good enough.   Laura Dugger: (11:48 - 12:21) Katie, you sound like a wonderful mother. I think that's such a gift to your kids. Their studies show doing chores and being more self-sufficient, being trained that way is beneficial to them across the board.   So, I applaud you. Well done. But another one of your sweet spots that you seem to get after is healthy living.   And so, I'd love to know, what are some of your most beneficial lifestyle changes that you've implemented in your family? And now they've led to the greatest results.   Katie Reid: (12:22 - 15:12) Yeah, so, one of the things we do as a family is we go to the chiropractor. And I know that some people have mixed feelings about that, but we love our chiropractor. And, you know, I'll probably get the statistics, you know, not quite right. I'm a creative brain versus a very logical brain. But I do know there are many health benefits to chiropractic care. It boosts your immune system.   I can for me personally, some of the benefits is I used to get vertigo sometimes, which is a terrible thing if you've never had it, where the room is like spinning and I'd have to just lay in bed, which is not a great thing, you know, for our busy lifestyle. And so, I have less vertigo. I can move my head back and forth freely and lots of other things.   But one thing that was interesting, and we did interview my chiropractor on the Martha & Mary Show on the podcast, is there's so many things that can be benefits to it. And at my age, I'm almost 48. I can see 50 from a distance.   And my friends and I, Laura, are talking about our bodies so much. We are now like our moms would do. And even going to the bathroom more regularly can be a benefit of chiropractic care or, you know, your cramps not being as bad, all that.   So, that's one of the things we have done. This year, we are trying to walk a lot more. So, my husband and I and our two youngest children, we have this little half hour route that we do. And we were even doing it in the middle of winter. And then as things have gotten busier, that's fallen a little bit by the wayside, but just fresh air. We have some great conversations.   And the other thing, too, is I don't know if you're like this, Laura, but during COVID, we put on a lot of weight and we didn't realize it. We could see it in other people, but we went to the doctor and I was shocked by what I weighed. And I went to a naturopath and I just said, “Can you help me?”   And so, I thought I was taking good care of myself, Laura. But looking back, I surely was not. And a lot of it was what I was eating.   I was not drinking enough water. So, anyway, that helped to just the education of that our food has such an impact. And so, really it you know, we are not like health freaks by any means, but trying to have more vegetables, some healthy options.   I had no idea what a big deal protein was. I just didn't know, you know, as kids who ate SpaghettiOs and, you know, mac and cheese growing up in the 80s. There just wasn't as much out there about, you know, that connection with what you're putting in your body and how you're feeling.   Laura Dugger: (15:13 - 18:23) That's such a good point. I love hearing these habits and I very much enjoyed that episode that you did with your chiropractor. We'll have to link to that as well in the show notes.   And now a brief message from our sponsor. With over 28 years of experience in real estate, Sue Neihouser of the Sue Neihouser Team is a RE-MAX agent of Central Illinois. And she loves to walk alongside her clients as they unlock new doors.   For anyone local, I highly recommend you call Sue today at 309-229-8831. And you can ask her any real estate questions. 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Thanks for your sponsorship.   Katie, you're such a go-getter and in the midst of homeschooling and writing this book, you also still pursue personal development and spiritual growth. So, do you have any systems or rhythms in place to support that growth?   Katie Reid: (18:24 - 21:43) Yeah, I think a couple of them. I often want to talk to people, talk about the Mary and Martha event. Some people are that way with Bible study and prayer. There are some who just love to study the Bible. There're others who lead with prayer. I've been the Bible study girl. I love to study, you know, as a teacher. Maybe that's just my thing. But prayer was something that I felt like I was always getting like a D minus in. And it's not that I never would, Laura, but, you know, I just have a friend, Lee, who co-hosts The Martha & Mary Show with me, and she is a prayer, a pray-er. And so, one of the things I did was I know accountability is key in developing healthy practices, whether that's physically or spiritually or emotionally.   And so, we started a mom's prayer group at our church that meets most Fridays throughout the year because I knew, I mean, surely I wasn't going to just pray on Fridays. But I knew if I had that group and I was helping lead it and show up that that would be a discipline that would get into my life. And it really has, but it just felt very daunting.   Another tip my friend gave me just with incorporating more prayer is to have like a trigger. So, every time you open a door to pray or every time you interact with water, let it serve as a reminder to pray. And again, I just need that kind of accountability in my life. I can get distracted easily.   And so, that was just another thing that helped me to just have that in the forefront of my mind. And I also feel like having teen and young adult children, you will just start praying much more naturally because you realize that your influence is shifting. You're more of a coach and a support than you are kind of that direct supervisor. And so, God gave me this phrase of like, "Prayer is the way sometimes we got to parenting, but prayer is also what we need to get through parenting."   And so, I have been doing much more prayer lately, but I just encourage the listeners, whether it's Bible study or prayer, which are essential to our spiritual growth, grab a friend and ask them, you know, you could text each other in the mornings, like, "Hey, I'm praying for you about this. Or will you pray about this?" But it is when we link arms, we have more effectiveness, I think, because we're not just trying to do it on our own. And I feel like in our culture, especially with all the pressures of, you know, social media and all of that, we try to be all things to our family, like, you know, grow organic vegetables and sew our kids' clothes and homeschool and you fill in the blank. But yet it's so much more accessible done in community. For example, I love batch cooking. So, maybe I could make an extra lasagna for someone and then I don't love to fold laundry, but maybe my friend comes over and we fold laundry together. I just think we can be so isolated. And we're missing out on sharing our strengths with others and them with us. And I just think family life is best done in community, if at all possible.   Laura Dugger: (21:44 - 22:15) That's so wise and so practical. I love that. Even the tip of when you interact with water to pray. That's really helpful. And speaking of spiritual growth, I do want to highlight some parts of your amazing book, which, as you said, it's entitled, God, What Do I Do? So, I want to just dive into a couple of the sections, beginning with, "God, what do I do with what you've given me?" So, Katie, can you just expound on that topic?   Katie Reid: (22:15 - 23:38) Yeah, for sure. So, we've all been given time, talents, treasures. You've probably heard those three Ts before. And at the end of my life, Laura, I want to be able to stand before the Lord and by His grace say that I was a faithful steward with what He has entrusted me. And I think we often are told, particularly as women, to keep everything in balance. And I don't know about you, Laura, but that just feels like pressure to me. Like, surely I'm going to drop one of these plates I'm spinning. And so, I like to think about it as being a faithful steward with what's right in front of me, because that feels more manageable. And yes, we still need the Lord's help to do that. But right now, we're doing this interview. So, I want to be a faithful steward of that. And then next, I'm going to go hang out with my college roommates and we're going to have a little reunion. And I want to be faithful with that. But I think we can get really overwhelmed when we're just trying to do everything perfectly. And in the study, we talk about faithfully stewarding the people, position, and place that God has put you in or that's before you. And I think that happens one decision at a time. And again, it feels more manageable when we think about it like that.   Laura Dugger: (23:39 - 23:48) I love that. I even love the questions that you ask about those specifics. Do you want to share those three questions?   Katie Reid: (23:49 - 26:27) Yeah. So, we talk about, you know, what people have you been entrusted with? What position have you been entrusted with? And what place have you been entrusted with? And I think that helps us recognize our purpose as well, like in the current season that we're in. But going back to the time, talents and treasures, you know, time, I feel like right now is such a precious commodity. And we talk about, you know, at church, like tithing your finances. But the idea I've heard people explain, what does it look like to tithe your time?   And I can cram so many things into the day that my husband and I are walking through this process of me having more margin in my life, more white space. And that's a part of stewarding our time. It doesn't mean we have to burn out and just run ragged. You know, we see this pattern in Jesus' life. He would minister and then He would retreat and recharge and then He'd minister. And I think there's some unhealth that we see in our culture and even in my own home with sometimes of just the unrealistic expectations I have.   And life happens. We could have a perfectly executed plan. But then this is a true story. The dog ate chocolate and we have to run for an emergency vet visit. Or I don't know about you, Laura, but you know, sometimes my kids want to have deep conversations at a time that is very inconvenient. But we want to take advantage of those times and take that opportunity.   And so, just going before the Lord and saying, "God, you have given me time. You've given me talents. You've given me treasures. And I want to faithfully steward them. Show me how to move forward in a way that honors you." And I think we have to be careful sometimes. I think we need to put some blinders on because what you are called to might be totally different than what your sister is called to or what I'm called to. And that we need to listen and have the abiding relationship with the Lord because we need to faithfully steward what He's asked us to do, not what He's asked someone else to do. And so, I love that word, too. What God has "entrusted" to us, again, could look a lot of different ways. But He doesn't require perfection. That's why Jesus came, because we couldn't do it. And He's with us in it. And we want to move forward with Him as we manage the people and the place and the position that He's entrusted to us.   Laura Dugger: (26:27 - 27:14) Oh, that's so good. And just to dig a little deeper then, too, I feel like I'm in a similar place where I sense the Lord asking me this week, asking me to ask Him, "What pace do you want me to be living at? What pace is healthy and sustainable? And what changes do I need to make?" So, I feel like I'm just on the beginning of this journey. But if you and your husband have already been diving in to margin, which is a word that I feel like I could answer with, and maybe slowing down a little bit, how do you do that? You're a creative as well, and you've got all these ideas and these good things that you want to go after. Do you have any practical parameters or pieces of discernment in place to know how to create margin as well?   Katie Reid: (27:15 - 29:12) Yeah, I think one thing that I am still learning is that “yes" has a cost to it, right? Now, of course, if Jesus asked us to do something, we want to say yes, regardless of the cost. But let's say someone asked me if I would write an article for a website and I'm launching these books. That sounds like a great idea. But Laura, sometimes I forget what that yes will mean. That's going to be at least three hours of time. And so, to almost look at the ask and associate them with time. And so, while that's a great thing, I also have kids that are in sports right now, and I don't want to miss those sports. Or could I use an article I've used before? Do they want original content? And so, I think with our yes' and no's, just thinking about, again, unless it's an obedience thing where the Lord has just made it so clear.   The other thing my husband often says to me is, "OK, Katie, that is a great opportunity. But what is going to come off of your plate to make room for that?" Where I can just keep heaping it on and it's spilling on a potluck when you overfill your plate and it's all spilling out and just making a mess. And so, that's another thing of like, "OK, what will come off?" I also run things by my husband or a close friend to say I have this opportunity for this. "What do you think?" Because sometimes we have those blind spots where we can't see what that might mean in the future. So, kind of a board of advisors, if you will, people who know you well know your personality. And just because it's a good idea doesn't mean it's a bad idea. And that can be so hard, especially if we're good at something. Sometimes we think it's an automatic yes, but we have to evaluate the season that we are in as well.   Laura Dugger: (29:13 - 30:26) Did you know that this podcast is 100% listener supported? We love producing free content that's available to everyone around the world with our monthly newsletters when you sign up for our email list and with our weekly episodes. We pray that this has been a benefit to you, that if any episode has ever impacted you, what we ask is that you will partner with us now and generously and prayerfully give financially before the end of the year.   There're multiple ways to do this online at TheSavvySauce.com. You can donate through Stripe or PayPal or Venmo with just a simple click, or you can send snail mail to us at Savvy Sauce Charities, P.O. Box 101, Roanoke, Illinois, 61561. We hope you choose to support us today.   The word discernment comes to mind with your book. It's a lot of discernment, a lot of these questions as we're turning to God. So, can you share any of the parts of the section that you wrote about, "God, What Do I Do Next?"   Katie Reid: (30:27 - 34:11) Absolutely. You know, I'm a pretty decisive person, but I know a lot of people are not, and they can be overwhelmed. I mean, even at the grocery store, if we're trying to pick out cereal or Band-Aids even, there are so many options that it can just become overwhelming. We're inundated by information. And so, I think when we are not sure what to do next, there are things we actually can decide, even if we don't specifically know what to do about a situation. And that's a lot of what is found in God, What Do I Do?.   And we follow the Israelites as they're entering the Promised Land. They made some not great choices sometimes, and they made some good choices sometimes. But the idea of their leader had died and they needed to know what to do next. And one of the first things they do, we see in Judges 1:1, is they inquire of the Lord. They go to the Lord and ask Him what they're supposed to do. And Laura, we can never go wrong doing that.   I have a dear friend who told me one time, "Katie, I don't like praying out loud because I just have really simple prayers. They are not eloquent." And I reassured her, you know what? SOS prayers totally count. So, if you find yourself in a situation where you do not know what to do next: "Lord, help me. Lord, I need you." You cannot go wrong praying those prayers. And there's actually, the Bible study goes through six decisions we can make, even if we don't know specifically what to do. And the first one in the introductory lesson is the decision to remember. The more kids I've had and the older I've gotten, I get a little more forgetful. I used to be so good at Memory, that game. And now it's like, I don't know, I'm going to pick the same ones every time. We can be forgetful. But when we recount God's faithfulness in the Bible and also what He's done in our own lives, it can help us make more clear-headed decisions. We have this little box in our home that we decorated back in the scrapbooking days. And inside it, we have a couple pictures and objects that remind us of things God has done for us in the past. One of the things He had asked us to do when we did not have much money, we were getting ready to move across the country and we had two vehicles. And we could have really used the money from the vehicle, one of our vehicles, but the Lord put on both my heart and my husband's heart to give away a vehicle.   And so many people, even Christian believers close to us, Laura, were like, "I don't know, that doesn't seem very wise." But we knew God's voice. We knew what He was asking and it was such a blessing in it. And so, we have a picture of that car, and we have that in the box. And so, I have not done a great job of pulling the box out a lot, especially with our younger kids. But it's just kind of those memorial stones of "Remember how God did this."   I remember one time we were having car difficulties, and I told the family, I said, "You know, wouldn't it be great if someone at church just handed us an envelope with the money we need to repair this vehicle?" And my kids kind of rolled their eyes. "Oh, there's mom and her big faith again." And Laura, wouldn't you know it, someone came up to my husband and said, "We just want to gift you this." And it was like $200 and it was exactly what we needed. And so, it's like stories like that to remember God has been faithful in the past. He will continue to be faithful, even if I don't know specifically what to do about a situation. He will be with me in it.   Laura Dugger: (34:12 - 34:42) Wow, that is incredible. And those spiritual markers build confidence and faith in us with our own journey. But like you said, passing them along to the next generation, that is huge and sharing these stories of God's faithfulness. And this is just such a small sample of your book, because I just want to make sure we highlight one other piece, but you share this insight about one part of the question, "God, what do I do to encourage those around me?"   Katie Reid: (34:43 - 36:25) Yes. So, we look in Judges 4, we met a judge Deborah and there was a military commander named Barak. And so, Deborah was a prophetess and judge, and she goes to Barak and reminds him of what God has already told him. Isn't that a good friend? And she said, "Hey, hasn't God said," and then reminds him. And you know what I love about this is we see this collaboration for the Kingdom.   And maybe it's more of an exhortation than an encouragement. But then later on in Judges 5, there's the song that Deborah and Barak sing. And part of the song is they are calling out those that helped them in battle. And, you know, it's an encouragement. They also call out those who didn't help in a different kind of call out way. But sometimes it bolsters our faith.   If someone else speaks into our life and says, "I see this in you." And a lot of times we think that encouragement, but we don't give voice to it. And I can look back over my life when people have taken the time to encourage me. It's like we cling to those words to keep going. Something we do at our church is the last Sunday of the month we have testimony time. And it is so encouraging to hear what God is doing in other people's lives. And in our own struggles, it can really bolster our faith to keep holding on and to celebrate what He's doing in them. So, I think giving credit to God for what He's done in testimony can really help encourage those around us as well.   Laura Dugger: (36:26 - 37:12) Wow, that is awesome. I love that you do that at your church. Such a practical way to live out so much of the Bible that talks about sharing His story, sharing His faithfulness, and that we overcome Satan by the blood of the Lamb, which is already taken care of, and the word of our testimony. That's so powerful. And Katie, you're just fascinating and multifaceted. And there's a piece of your bio that I just love. You say that you're an "Inspiration Doula". So, I want to hear some of your favorite ways, whether it's questions or stories or bits of wisdom, to share so that you can encourage creatives, which is hopefully all of us because we're created in our Creator God's image.   Katie Reid: (37:14 - 40:11) You know, Laura, I love to see what God, how He has wired different people and encouraged them to share that gift with the world. I love holding the ladder for people so they can climb higher and do more. And sometimes I think on this crazy journey of podcasting and writing and speaking, sometimes I get the sense that God is allowing me to walk through these doors so that I can turn around and help someone else do it but even go further and do more than I have.   Nothing brings me more joy than seeing someone using their giftings. For example, we had a writing retreat recently that really turned into a spiritual renewal retreat. And one of my friends, she is very content to stay home with her kids. She is pretty introverted, but God has given her these talents that she is using more and more. For example, she directed a skit that's, you know, at our church for Easter and did such a great job. And she has written this book that's kind of like a Little House on the Prairie-esque book. And she was working on it at the writing retreat. And, you know, she's around these other women that are speaking all over the country and doing all these things. And so, some way she's like, "What am I doing here?"   And we reassured her she was right where she should be. And so, this fall she's going to teach this class using her book with homeschool students. And then they're going to write their own books. And Laura, I just think it's so fun to see her using what God has placed in her hands in her sphere of influence. And so, I love to—a lot of times people just need that nudge and a little bit of cheerleading to take those next brave steps. I also sometimes they just need to see somebody else doing it to realize that they can do it too.   And again, it can look so many different ways from having people into your home. I have a friend named Cherry and she started a ministry called "Welcome to the Table" where once a month she welcomes women into her home. They share a meal and it has just exploded because people are hungry literally and figuratively for that kind of community. So, a lot of times my coaching looks like encouragement, looks like some practical steps that they can take. A lot of times creatives are not finishers. And I have this weird blend of creativity and administration.   And I just love to help people kind of have a roadmap for what would it look like to get it done. And so many people do not set deadlines, Laura. They're like, "Yes, I'm going to write that book. Or yes, I'm going to start that event. Or yes, I'm going to start a book club." But then they don't give themselves a deadline. So, even just that little tip of like tell somebody else your deadline can really help get the wheels turning.   Laura Dugger: (40:11 - 40:41) That's good. Again, such practical advice. And Katie, you are such a natural encourager. There's even a joy or lightheartedness in your voice and a warmth. And I love how you come alongside others and help develop them and see their dreams fulfilled. So, I love that generosity of spirit. But I also want to hear what else is coming next for you, including, will you tell us about this novel that's becoming a movie?   Katie Reid: (40:42 - 42:40) Yes. So, interestingly enough, when I launched my first book, Made Like Martha came out in 2018. And then I had this idea for a book about Deborah from Judges. Well, wouldn't you know, here we are seven years later and that book is finally coming out. So, in the meantime, as I was encountering a lot of closed doors about this particular book, I was like, "Well, I'm a creative and I'm a writer. And if I can't write nonfiction, I guess I'll try fiction."   And so, I wrote a Hallmark-like story called A Very Bavarian Christmas. We self-published it. It came out in 2020. And funny that God knew that people actually needed something lighthearted with a happy ending because I wrote it in 2019. And then when it came out, people were hunkered down and just needed that kind of feel good type of clean rom-com. And so, I call this the little book that could, Laura, because literally I got an email from Carlos from California and that it went to my spam folder. And it surely sounded like spam, but what Carlos said is, "Our team has read your book and we would like to purchase the movie rights." And so, sometime in the future, it will likely be on UP TV. There's going to be a movie based on my novel.   And then the sequel, A Very Bavarian Summer, has recently come out. July 5th was its release date. And it's just been such a fun journey. So, a publisher ended up picking up the series. And I was just as surprised as anyone. I was hoping it would be a movie. I kind of wrote it like that. And again, there was many voices saying, "Yeah, you know, you're not a fiction writer. So, let's kind of see how it goes." But I just knew that God had given me this story and that anything is possible. And it wasn't a guarantee. It would all turn out how I thought it would. But it's been a very fun and exciting journey for sure.   Laura Dugger: (42:41 - 42:52) That's incredible. So excited for you. I have to keep us posted for when we can see that. But where else can we go after this conversation to continue learning more from you?   Katie Reid: (42:53 - 43:51) Well, the best place is at my website, katiemreid.com. And Reid is R-E-I-D. And if you subscribe, listeners, to my website, I send out a good newsletter, I call it, once a month with all the things. I'm also on Instagram @katiem_reid. And then my books are available, Made Like Martha, God, What Do I Do?, A Very Bavarian Christmas, and A Very Bavarian Summer. And so, we're also pitching another Bible study. So, hopefully in a year or so there will be some more. But I love to resource people. My desire, whether I am writing nonfiction or fiction, is to see captives set free. Because Jesus has set me free. And I long for others to live that abundant life with Jesus. And so, that thread is throughout each resource we offer. And I would love to connect with listeners over my website or online.   Laura Dugger: (43:52 - 44:17) I'll make sure to link to all of that in the show notes. I love that, setting the captives free, joining that good work that Jesus is doing. And Katie, you already know that we're called The Savvy Sauce. Because savvy is synonymous with practical knowledge or insight or discernment. So, as my final question for you today, what is your savvy sauce?   Katie Reid: (44:18 - 45:12) Well, I am bad at small talk. I like to go deep fast. And so, I feel like my savvy sauce is asking meaningful questions. Whether that be of my spouse or my kids. And really getting to know their heart and what makes them tick. We call them quality questions.   And I think people are willing to open up when they feel safe, when they feel seen, and when they feel known. And so, I love to just kind of dive in deep. In fact, my husband and I will joke if we're out on a double date or something. I'll just say, "Listen, I'm bad at small talk. So, can we talk about fill in the blank?" And so, I think that's one of my savvy sauces. It might annoy some people, I guess. But I think it's really fun to watch someone talk about something they're passionate about. And just get to know them better.   Laura Dugger: (45:13 - 45:52) Amen to that. I love that so much. I do not think it's obnoxious or annoying or anything. I actually very much appreciate when we first met through Justin and Jenny Moss. And Justin's been a repeat guest, so I'll link to his episodes as well. But we met at their daughter's wedding. And I was instantly drawn to you. And it was near the end of the night, so we didn't get to spend as much time together as I hoped. But you have that magnetic personality. And I love even the gifts of your decisiveness. And the way that you're able to articulate all of your wisdom and share it with us. It was such a blessing. So, thank you for being my guest today.   Katie Reid: (45:53 - 46:04) Laura, thank you so much. And I love what you're doing with The Savvy Sauce podcast. And you are just shining and in your element. And it's so evident. And I just appreciate you.     Laura Dugger: (46:04 – 49:49) Thank you, Katie. One more thing before you go, have you heard the term gospel before? It simply means good news. And I want to share the best news with you, but it starts with the bad news.   Every single one of us were born sinners, but Christ desires to rescue us from our sin, which is something we cannot do for ourselves. This means there's absolutely no chance we can make it to heaven on our own. So, for you and for me, it means we deserve death, and we can never pay back the sacrifice we owe to be saved.   We need a savior, but God loved us so much. He made a way for his only son to willingly die in our place as the perfect substitute. This gives us hope of life forever in right relationship with him.   That is good news. Jesus lived the perfect life. We could never live and died in our place for our sin.   This was God's plan to make a way to reconcile with us so that God can look at us and see Jesus. We can be covered and justified through the work Jesus finished. If we choose to receive what he has done for us, Romans 10:9 says, “that if you confess with your mouth, Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.”   So, you pray with me now. Heavenly father, thank you for sending Jesus to take our place. I pray someone today right now is touched and chooses to turn their life over to you.   Will you clearly guide them and help them take their next step in faith to declare you as Lord of their life? We trust you to work and change lives now for eternity. In Jesus name we pray.   Amen. If you prayed that prayer, you are declaring him for me. So, me for him, you get the opportunity to live your life for him.   And at this podcast, we're called The Savvy Sauce for a reason. We want to give you practical tools to implement the knowledge you have learned. So, you're ready to get started.   First, tell someone, say it out loud, get a Bible. The first day I made this decision, my parents took me to Barnes and Noble and let me choose my own Bible. I selected the Quest NIV Bible and I love it.   You can start by reading the book of John. Also get connected locally, which just means tell someone who's a part of a church in your community that you made a decision to follow Christ. I'm assuming they will be thrilled to talk with you about further steps such as going to church and getting connected to other believers to encourage you.   We want to celebrate with you too. So, feel free to leave a comment for us here. If you did make a decision to follow Christ, we also have show notes included where you can read scripture that describes this process.   And finally, be encouraged. Luke 15:10 says, “in the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents.” The heavens are praising with you for your decision today.   And if you've already received this good news, I pray you have someone to share it with. You are loved and I look forward to meeting you here next time.

Stu had a rough weekend with UVA blowing the ACC Championship. Kenny is in the same boat with the Commanders. Pro golf is exposing themselves as a bunch of whiners. Stu checked out a new simulator spot in Roanoke to fill his golf fix in the winter. #golf #podcast #pgatour #CFP #simgolf #Hero #hideki #ACCchampionship

What happens when a law school mock trial reveals you're living the wrong story? For actress Marie Wetherell, that single moment of clarity changed everything. Instead of arguing cases, she realized she wanted to become the powerful female characters she admired on screen—and she's already proving she belongs there. She became a lawyer but went for the silver screen.Marie's breakout role came in Taylor Sheridan's hit series 1923—the prequel to Yellowstone—where she portrayed the unforgettable Tarred and Feathered Woman. Now her career is accelerating with Croatoan, a psychological thriller inspired by the real-life mystery of the lost Roanoke colony. In the film, Marie plays Mary, the ex-wife of Dean Richardson, portrayed and directed by Britt Bankhead. Marie also landed the lead in a post-apocalyptic thriller called Run that is coming out in 2026.Her passion for performance didn't appear overnight. As a young woman inspired by Nicole Kidman's performance in The Interpreter and Jessica Chastain's fierce role in Zero Dark Thirty, Marie followed parallel paths—Model U.N., law school, and even lobbying at the Idaho Statehouse. With a prominent political family behind her, a legal career seemed like destiny… but the screen is where she finally discovered her voice.In this inspiring Women Road Warriors interview with Shelley Johnson and Kathy Tuccaro, Marie shares why acting is both a deeply personal journey and a team sport, how every audition becomes an opportunity for growth, and what it truly takes to reinvent your life's direction. Her story is a reminder that clarity can strike in an instant—and when it does, it's never too late to pivot toward your passion.https://mariewetherell.com/https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vmn1D6um60Ywomenroadwarriors.comwww.womenspowernetwork.net#WomenRoadWarriors #ShelleyJohnson #KathyTuccaro #MarieWetherell #Hollywood #Actress #WomenInFilm #ActingJourney #1923Series #TaylorSheridan #FemaleEmpowerment #WomenInMedia #ActorsLife #FilmIndustry #FromLawToHollywood #CroatoanFilm #StrongFemaleLeads

“Therefore see that you walk carefully [living life with honor, purpose, and courage; shunning those who tolerate and enable evil], not as the unwise, but as wise [sensible, intelligent, discerning people], making the very most of your time [on earth, recognizing and taking advantage of each opportunity and using it with wisdom and diligence], because the days are [filled with] evil.” Ephesians 5:15-16 AMP   *Transcription Below*   Questions and Topics We Discuss: How did God meet you in your experience of army life to reveal your choice of hope vs. fear? What have you learned about community, both before and after your experience of launching your husband into space? For all of us, how can we rediscover our fun side when we've been trapped in survival mode for too long?   Stacey Morgan is always ready with a funny or thoughtful story from her own life; whether it be holding down the home front during military deployments, working for the Smithsonian, skydiving, or blasting  her husband into outer space. Stacey is on staff with MOPS International, a nonprofit focused on the unique needs of mothers around the world. She and her husband, Army colonel and NASA astronaut Drew Morgan, have four children.   Connect with Stacey on Instagram or through her website.   Other Savvy Sauce Episodes Related to Friendship: Friendship with Drew Hunter Reflecting Jesus in Our Relationships with Rach Kincaid Nurturing Friendships with Jackie Coleman Art of Friendship with Kim Wier   Thank You to Our Sponsors: Chick-fil-A East Peoria and The Savvy Sauce Charities (and donate online here)   Please help us out by sharing this episode with a friend, leaving a 5-star rating and review, and subscribing to this podcast!   Connect with The Savvy Sauce on Facebook, Instagram or Our Website   Gospel Scripture: (all NIV)   Romans 3:23 “for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,”   Romans 3:24 “and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.”   Romans 3:25 (a) “God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood.”   Hebrews 9:22 (b) “without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.”   Romans 5:8 “But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.”   Romans 5:11 “Not only is this so, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.”   John 3:16 “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.”   Romans 10:9 “That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.”   Luke 15:10 says “In the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents.”   Romans 8:1 “Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus”   Ephesians 1:13–14 “And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God's possession- to the praise of his glory.”   Ephesians 1:15–23 “For this reason, ever since I heard about your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love for all the saints, I have not stopped giving thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers. I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the spirit of wisdom and revelation, so that you may know him better. I pray also that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened in order that you may know the hope to which he has called you, the riches of his glorious inheritance in the saints, and his incomparably great power for us who believe. That power is like the working of his mighty strength, which he exerted in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms, far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every title that can be given, not only in the present age but also in the one to come. And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church, which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way.”   Ephesians 2:8–10 “For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith – and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God – not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God‘s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.“   Ephesians 2:13 “But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ.“   Philippians 1:6 “being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.”   *Transcription*   Music: (0:00 – 0:09)   Laura Dugger: (0:09 - 2:54) Welcome to The Savvy Sauce, where we have practical chats for intentional living. I'm your host, Laura Dugger, and I'm so glad you're here. I want to say a huge thank you to today's sponsors for this episode, Chick-fil-A East Peoria and Savvy Sauce Charities.   Are you interested in a free college education for you or someone you know? Stay tuned for details coming later in this episode from today's sponsor, Chick-fil-A East Peoria. You can also visit their website today at https://www.chick-fil-a.com/locations/il/east-peoria.   I'm so excited to share a special Patreon re-release episode. And if you've been with The Savvy Sauce for a while, you know that we used to make some money by having people sign up for Patreon and as a reward, they would get access to special episodes. Now we have done away with that as we've transitioned to becoming a nonprofit, and we want to make all of these episodes available to you, so we re-release a few every year.   What I'd love to ask is, as we're approaching the end of year because we've taken out that revenue stream, would you consider financially supporting Savvy Sauce Charities?   There are two simple ways. First, if you want to mail us a check, that saves us all of the processing fees, and you can make that out to Savvy Sauce Charities and mail it to P.O. Box 101, Roanoke, Illinois 61561. Also, if you want to go online, visit thesavvysauce.com and you can type in different words to the search button. You could type in “donate” or “support” and it should take you to the place where there's a button to click and put in your credit card information and give that way. We would be so grateful for any amount, and we love our partnership with you.   Here's our chat.   Stacey Morgan is my guest today, and you may have heard her name in the news over the past few years. She has documented her story in her debut book, The Astronaut's Wife: How Launching My Husband into Outer Space Changed the Way I Live on Earth. And now she's going to share more about that season and all the lessons God taught her about making the most of her one incredible life, and she's going to inspire each of us to do the same.   Here's our chat. Welcome to The Savvy Sauce, Stacey.   Stacey Morgan: (2:55 - 2:58) I am so excited to be here. Thank you for having me.   Laura Dugger: (2:58 - 3:07) Well, it is truly my pleasure. And will you just start by giving us a little bit more context for our time together and just share a few things about yourself?   Stacey Morgan: (3:08 - 4:49) Sure. Well, hi, my name is Stacey. I currently live in Texas.   I have four kids. I'm married to a guy named Drew who has kind of an unusual job. I grew up in a small town just outside of Boston and was kind of a scholar-athlete growing up interested in a lot of different things but always involved in church and youth group. And that really served me well when I went off to college.   The first college I went to, West Point. And actually, I'll tell you in a minute, but that is where I eventually met my now husband, Drew.   We got married after I graduated from undergrad. He's a little bit older than me and he is an Army officer. And so, we have moved all over the country. We've lived on both coasts and had a number of kinds of unusual situations just, you know, kind of typical for a military family living all over the place.   I've had a lot of crazy jobs. I think mainly I have an unusual story because I'm really quick to say yes to things, which sometimes, you know, it's a double-edged sword. Sometimes you say yes and you realize, “I should have thought through that a little bit more.” But really it's been quite an adventure because we have had the opportunity to live in a lot of different places, experience a lot of different things.   And we ended up here in 2013. We can kind of get into that if you want, but we ended up down here in Texas with my husband, who is still an Army officer, but he became a NASA astronaut. And so, that totally changed the direction of our lives and kind of changing all the plans we had for what we were supposed to be doing in the military and ending up down here at Johnson Space Center. Then, him eventually launching into outer space.   Laura Dugger: (4:49 - 5:01) Wow, there are so many points to unpack, but let's back it up to what you had mentioned about West Point. So, will you just elaborate and tell us more about how you and Drew met and fell in love?   Stacey Morgan: (5:01 - 7:21) Sure. So, we were both cadets at West Point when we met. He was a little bit older than me, but we met through Officers' Christian Fellowship, which is a Christian club that is very popular on military bases, both at the academies but in big Army and other services as well when you get out.   It's a, you know, it's like small groups, typical for what most people would find comfortable in kind of church community. And so, we met there and we just kind of clicked, you know.   I would say it's funny looking back, we were not the type of people I think we would have thought we would marry. He was far more serious than I am. I'm a little bit more, I'm the one to more kind of like walk the fine line, but we work together really well.   We've always been a great team. That's always been a real theme in our marriage, you know, that we are a team. And, you know, when he proposed after I graduated from undergrad, he kind of said, “I promise you a life of adventure,” which at the time sounded wonderful and adorable.   Of course, it has come back to haunt me several times when he has been, you know, come up with some crazy plan and when I hesitate he's like, “I promised you adventure.” And I'm like, “Now that's unfair. I did not know when you said adventure back in 2000 that you meant all these crazy things like going to space or all these different deployments and all this kind of stuff like that.”   So, we now have four kids. We've been married this summer will be 22 years. And, you know, it hasn't been without its challenges like any marriage and certainly any marriage under stress because of stressful situations, whether that's military deployments, whether that's space travel or just kind of life and parenting. And as you kind of grow up together and get to know each other and the world changes around you, we've certainly had ups and downs, but we are a team.   And I think God has really honored that and it's been really helpful for us when we've had those sticky seasons where you just feel like, “Man, we are just not connecting or kind of jiving the way we would want,” to actually say to each other that we are on the same team and that has been really helpful.   Laura Dugger: (7:22 - 7:40) The part of your story that involves space travel is one that most of us will never be able to relate to experientially, but it's still extraordinary. So, can you walk us through the detailed events leading up to 9:28 p.m. on July 20th, 2019?   Stacey Morgan: (7:42 - 15:28) Sure. So, I should back it up one big step behind that just to give everybody a little context. So, in 2012, we were kind of living our lives. We had always been deep into the Army Special Operations community. We love that. In order to live and kind of thrive in that environment you have to be all in, and we were all in.   And one day my husband came home and he was uncharacteristically giddy and he said, “You're not gonna believe this huge news. NASA is opening up the application window for a new class of astronauts.”   And I thought, “Why are you telling me this? This has no bearing whatsoever on our lives. We are on this path and that is a completely different path.”   And he said, “Well, I want to apply.”   And I thought to myself, “Well, I wanted to be a ballerina at one point in life, but that ship sailed. Like who doesn't say they always wanted to be an astronaut? Like this seems like a childhood fantasy.”   But he said, “No, I just want to apply. Like don't worry, all of our plans are gonna stay the same. They've never selected an Army physician before. I just, you know, I want to...” You know, the joke was that you'll always be a NASA applicant, right? And that'll be great. We'll laugh about it at family Christmases and stuff.   Except he kept making it through every gate. And so, in 2013 we got the call that completely took our life off of one set of train tracks and put it on another. At that time, we were currently stationed just outside of Washington DC at Fort Belvoir. We were supposed to be literally the next week moving to Germany. And that's how close these changes kind of came up on themselves. And so, we had to unravel everything for Germany and move to Houston, Texas, because that's where Johnson Space Center is.   And so, he began his training in 2013. I started my journey in learning a whole new culture, a whole new way of doing life. I'd never lived in a place that was at least not near a military base or within a military community. Didn't quite recognize at the time how much that shared sense of community had made things easier in terms of connecting with people before that and when I didn't have it.   So, it was probably our rockiest transition for me personally that I'd ever had in terms of friendships and getting connected. That's a big part of my story because I think friendship struggles are so common for adult women. It's just something that nobody really teaches us how to do and so a lot of women are very lonely.   But fast forward, he trained for several years until it was eventually his turn to fly. And in 2019, the only way to get to the International Space Station was to fly on a Russian Soyuz rocket. So, some people are very confused because they think, “Well, every space movie I've ever watched is taking place in Florida, right? Whether that's Apollo 13 or Armageddon or whatever. Why didn't he launch from Florida?”   Well, between 2011 and 2020, the Space Shuttle program had ended. SpaceX Crew Dragon had not yet started launching from Florida again. So, for about a 10-year period, the only way to get to and from the International Space Station was to ride a Russian rocket.   So, that's what NASA did. They went into partnership with the Russians, which of course makes things very interesting given today's kind of current political climate and all the world events. But that meant when it was Drew's turn to launch, we as a family had to travel to Kazakhstan, which is a country that I could not spell before 2019.   And so, if you don't know where that is, don't feel bad. I didn't either. I had to look it up. It's a former Soviet Republic really kind of in between Russia and Afghanistan. So, it is in the middle of nowhere. And when the Soviets were building their space program in the 1950s and 60s, they built their secret space city there in Kazakhstan. That's where they started their space program and they have kind of kept it unchanged and they continue to launch their rockets from there today.   It was a whole kind of world travel and cultural experience to take my four kids to Kazakhstan, which is a completely different cultural experience for really what came down to a very stressful, very emotional moment really waiting for that launch. So, unlike Florida, which you know when you watch on television, it's colorful, there's a lot of people, a lot of spectators, big people remember from the shuttle days big countdown clock, a loudspeaker kind of telling everybody what's going on... that's not how it is in Kazakhstan.   So, about 30 minutes before the launch, the kids and I were brought to this viewing area. And by viewing area I would say big field. It's not... there was kind of some grandstands area far at the other end of the field, but that's where all the space tourists stand and the press and all that kind of stuff and we didn't want to be near them. So, our escort brought us down to the end, the other end of the field, and it's just dark and it's quiet and there's no announcements. There's no countdown clock. It's just looking at your watch or your phone there just kind of in the dark and you just know that that Russian ground crew is going to launch that rocket at exactly 9:28 p.m. Not a minute earlier, not a minute later.   And so, standing there in the dark holding my kids' hands, and we can see the rocket in the distance only about a mile away, which by rocket launch standards is very close. Knowing that in a minute or 30 seconds or 10 seconds as it gets closer, it's either going to be one of the best days of your life, super exciting, super proud moment, or it's going to be the worst day of your life, and you could become a widow.   And as much as it's easy to kind of get complacent because incidents are so rare, but we all can remember any number of space disasters that have happened. Columbia, Challenger, those are very real. And with my time down here at Johnson Space Center, you come to learn those names and you meet those families and you meet those widows and widowers and you realize that space travel is dangerous. You know, at the end of the day my husband was in a little tiny capsule on top of a rocket full of highly explosive fuel. So, it's very scary.   And in that moment standing there thinking, “In 10 seconds my life is going to change no matter what happens.” Even if this goes perfectly, what happens next? I don't really know. It's kind of like having a baby. You can read all about it and assume things will be the way they're going to be, but until you're in it and then it happens, you don't really know how it's gonna go.   And so, it was a really overwhelmingly emotional moment because you think this could go sideways. And also, by the way, the world is watching live with me. So, if something goes wrong, I'm not able to process this privately. I will be experiencing it in real time with the rest of the world.   But even if it goes perfectly, what happens next? Like what does it look like to live on earth with a spouse in space and single parent for nine plus months while their other parent is in space? And you really don't know and it's scary to think like, “Gosh, what if something happens?” You know, he can't like come home early. Can't just like a business trip jump on a plane or a train and get home early. There's no coming back early. So, whatever happens, I'm on my own for better or worse. I'm on my own and I hope I have the endurance and the support system and everything I'm gonna need in order to be successful in this nine months.   Laura Dugger: (15:28 - 15:47) And my heart is pounding a little bit faster just as I hear you describe this. And I'd love to get back to your story, but first just to pause and wonder with that mixture of this adventure right in front of you and then your experience of army life, how did God meet you in all of that to reveal your choice of you're able to choose hope or fear?   Stacey Morgan: (15:47 - 22:32) Right. So, you know, when you take the time to step back and think, sometimes you don't see these patterns in your life until you kind of start putting them down on paper. And it was interesting for me to see how God had prepared me for that moment with other moments, especially related to military deployments in the past. Because certainly experiencing a rocket launch and all that fear and kind of this moment of where is my hope found in this moment, that was a varsity level moment.   But I'm so thankful that about ten years earlier God really started to prepare me for that moment with some other big moments. Like when my husband deployed for the first time.   I'll never forget, it was the height of the War on Terror. So, we were living in a military community which was amazing and a lot of my friends' husbands were also serving in the same military units or similar military units and they were deploying. The tempo was high so that meant, you know, six months deployed or longer, coming home for short amounts of time and then deploying again. Lots of action specifically in Afghanistan and Iraq at the time.   And so, lots of fatalities, lots of injuries, lots of grief, and for spouses a lot of fear because we knew what they were doing was very dangerous. And so, for me and my friends we kind of had this unspoken rule which I think a lot of people can understand which was, “Let's just not talk about this scariest thing because somehow talking about it makes it seem more possible.”   And as crazy as that is to say, people get that. You know, there's a lot of things we don't talk about because it's just too scary to think about. And so, for us the scariest thing in our life at that time was the fear that our husbands would not come home, that they would be killed in action. And that felt very real because we were going to memorial services, we were visiting people in the hospital, we were turning on the news and seeing what was going on in the world. And there was often communication blackouts because we knew that they were doing things that were very dangerous, very secretive.   And so, at the time I happily did what everybody else was doing which was, “Let's just not talk about it. Let's just kind of live life managing.” We felt like we were managing this fear, I think that's what I would have said at the time.   But then one day my friend Lisa, who's an amazing friend and she's always like two steps ahead of me on the wisdom scale, we were having coffee on her front porch and she turned to me and she said, “I've been thinking a lot about what life would be like if our husbands were killed.”   And this was like a bomb drop. I mean because we just were not supposed to be talking about this. Like here the rest of us had been avoiding all morbid thoughts about what could possibly happen with our husband and instead she had like turned and looked it straight in the eye.   And I was shocked. And so, I kind of sat up straighter and I said, “What do you mean?”   And she said, “Well, I've been thinking about it and it's not that, you know, life would certainly be hard and doesn't mean we wouldn't need counseling or our kids wouldn't need support, but life would still go on even if that happened. Life would still go on. Life would still be full of good things and God would provide and bring people around us to support us and I've just been thinking about that.”   And I was stunned. I was absolutely stunned because while the rest of us were too afraid to face that fear, in looking at it she kind of exposed it for what it was, which was certainly real and an absolute possibility that that could happen. But when she started walking down the path of like, “Okay, if this happened then what would happen?” You have to decide, “Do I believe God would really be with me or not? Do I believe His promises are true that He will be with me on good days and bad days and that He will draw people to me who will love me and support me? And have I plugged myself into friends and a faith community that would be there for me if that happened?”   And it was a game changer. That was probably one of, at the time, the biggest life-changing conversations I'd ever had as an adult because it really did shift how I viewed feeling afraid about things like that. And so, I had several opportunities... Drew deployed several times and then certainly doesn't take combat deployments to feel afraid like that. I know I have felt it before when my daughter was in the NICU, you know, and I had to leave her in the NICU and go home at night. I know I have felt it during this pandemic several times. I know I'm gonna feel it when I drop my oldest off at college this summer. You know, this moment where it just life feels very scary mainly because of the unknowns that come next and the fact that you have no control over those.   And so, that rocket launch moment was, you know, I felt like God was really prompting me in that moment to say, “Hey, if this rocket explodes like what will you do with that? Do you still trust me that I'm here with you and that I will still bring people to you and love you? Like is your support, is your foundation and your hope truly found in me or is it found in this rocket launch going successfully? Because it might not, and then what does that mean for you?”   And so, it really was this choice of am I gonna choose to live a life of fear, which is our default because if you do not choose something else we will always live a life dictated by fear of something. It's exhausting to live like that because once you conquer one fear another one's gonna pop up. Then they come in bunches and they just start layering on top of each other. Honestly it can lead to despair because there's plenty of things in the world to be afraid of and new ones just pop up every day.   So instead, I felt like God was offering me a new way of living and it really felt tangible in that moment of that rocket launch which is, “Hey, I hope that you will choose to find your hope in me. Just me. The one unchanging thing in this world that will be unchanging regardless of what happens with this rocket launch in 10 seconds. But if it goes well or if it goes poorly I am unchanging. You can rely on me. I will be with you in the best and the worst of times. And even if the rocket launch goes successfully and whatever happens in the next nine months, I'm with you there as well. So, you don't need to be afraid because I'm here with you. You can have hope that I will enable you to do what must be done no matter what happens tomorrow.”   Laura Dugger: (22:32 - 22:49) I'm so grateful that you chose hope and you chose faith. And then after all of that excitement and that adrenaline experienced on launch day, what did your life look like in the months to follow?   Stacey Morgan: (22:49 - 26:47) Yeah, it wasn't easy. You know I joke that those nine months really were like it was like a master class in all these little lessons I've learned throughout the years, but I'd never had to put them into practice at this level and all at the same time.   So, things like being honest about that I needed help. That, you know, there are times in the past where I have certainly wanted people to know or think that I had it all together and that I could do it all by myself especially, you know, I think every mom feels that way.   Certainly, military spouses, we take a lot of pride and feel like I'm doing this on my own.   And I realize now that I had certain seasons I have made life a lot harder for myself because I somehow thought that there was like an extra trophy if I finish the race by myself. I said that it was like, spoiler, there's no trophy. And also, I was just making it harder for myself.   And so, this season I could not fake it. Like past seasons I could fake it. This one I could not fake it. I had two teenagers, two tweens, a lot of hormones and then prepubescent and puberty things flying around. Just a lot of scheduling, a lot of driving, like just life. And then just the stress of living with someone who, you know, a spouse who was living in space and the stress of what does that do to your marriage, to parenting and, you know, parent-child relationships. Just every single piece of running a house, of parenting all the things, was solely on my shoulders and that's a big weight. And it was tough. It was tough.   So, I could not fake it. I had to ask for help. I had to be willing to ask for it and receive it, which are two different skill sets I found. It's sometimes you get good at one and not the other. I had to get really willing to be vulnerable as my friends and say things like, “I'm really lonely.” Can you know, it's like being honest. Like everything's not just, “Oh, this is so exciting. Oh, isn't it so great? Aren't we just so proud of them?” Yes, but at the same time sometimes I'm lonely. Sometimes I'm struggling.   Sometimes in my stress I would overly focus on trying to control my home life or what was happening within my own house and become not as pleasant of a person to live with because I was just trying to kind of regain some control in what felt like a little bit of a chaotic world and then you become not your best self and you know that. And so, I had to learn how to kind of get out of that survival mode and still have fun even when life is hard. And really just kind of accept that life isn't one thing or the other. You can be in a hard season and it still have good things in it. Life can be full of opportunities and challenges and one does not negate the other. And when you try to live your life by one narrative or the other, not only are you faking it but you make life harder than it needs to be and you kind of block other people out of it.   So, there was a lot of learning going on in there but we really all came down to that first decision of how am I gonna live my life in this season? Am I gonna live it fearfully, reactionary, hair trigger, you know, just stress all the time because I'm afraid of what comes next. I'm not sure if I'm gonna be able to handle it? Or am I gonna live a life of hope, which is of course like not wishes and dreams but it is anticipation that God will be with me no matter what comes down the pipeline. And sometimes that's divine comfort that is hard to explain but you just feel it. Sometimes it's people he draws to your life who literally will sit on the couch with you and just like hold your hand or give you a hug that moment you need it. Sometimes it's someone offering to carpool or take your kid out driving because they're trying to get their driver's license, you know?   But that's really the biggest thing for me. I talked about it in chapter one of the book because that's the foundation that really all those other lessons were built on.   Laura Dugger: (26:47 - 27:26) And I think also with your book, it was helpful to hear little insights into what it looked like for your marriage. And it was even interesting when you said it's really important for astronauts to have forms of entertainment and that you were so committed to being involved in Drew's life and that you two still found ways to stay connected. I just think that has to be encouraging to any married couples listening right now because you clearly had a big barrier to overcome. But what were some of those ways that the two of you tried as best as you could in that season to stay intimately connected to one another's lives?   Stacey Morgan: (27:26 - 31:19) Yeah, it's not easy. And I think there's kind of this fallacy that is kind of dangerous for especially young married I think to believe which is like in every season of your life you're gonna feel amazingly connected to your spouse and you're gonna constantly be growing in your relationship. And sometimes that's not true. Like sometimes one person has a job that takes them away from home or someone is sick or there are other issues going on in your life where the connection is just not as strong not because you don't want it to be but because the circumstances you find yourself in don't allow for that.   And certainly, while my husband was in space that was a lot of challenges to feeling connected. I mean there's good communication but there's a difference between like quality and quantity, right? So, he could call me on the phone every day but because of the time differences and his schedule the only time he could call me was between 4:00 and 5:00 p.m. my time, which as any person knows and with any kids, is like the worst time of the day. Like everything's happening, the wheels are coming off, homework, pickups, dinner prep, like all that kind of stuff was crazy.   So, needless to say, I was not able to sit down and have like a heartfelt drawn-out conversation. And then kids hate talking on the phone so he wasn't really talking to them during the day. I'm like, you know, my eight-year-old isn't gonna send him an email. So, you know, there wasn't like a lot of quality or quantity conversation with the kids which of course puts a little stress on your marriage too because you worry about that.   And then we have one video chat a month and you want it to be fun. You want it to kind of be good for the kids as well as him but it's a very, you know, it's one hour to share between five people and so that's not a lot of time. And so, the reality is that for that season there was a lot of, I would say, relationship treading water. And you're, you know, the goal is just not to let things go downhill, which you can easily do in life when you and your spouse are experiencing the same event but from different points of view. And that's what we were doing. You know, we were sharing the mission but from two vastly different points of view.   And so, you do your best. But the difference is I think you have to in order to kind of come out on the other end better, you have to have a kind of a mutual commitment that, “Hey, we're going to... we are eventually going to come back together on this. We can't change the circumstances. I can't make the time difference different. I can't give you more time on the phone. I can't... there's things I just cannot change. But we are committed as a team to doing the best we can right now and when this circumstance changes, in this case when he came home, we're gonna kind of back up again and do some story sharing and reconnect about some things that we just didn't have the opportunity to in the past.”   And so, it's a little bit kind of like two steps forward one step back but eventually you still come out ahead if you are committed to trying to come back together and share those experiences in one way or another. Where you run into kind of danger is if people start experiencing two different things and then they never come back together so the gap just kind of keeps widening and widening. And then you hear when people say like, “Yeah, I woke up and I felt like I was living a different life than the person who was sleeping next to me.”   And so, reminding us to ourselves that we are a team even though we were experiencing the same thing. I didn't know a lot about a lot of the things he was doing. He didn't know a lot of stories about how things were for me. And so, it's okay to tell them later if you don't have the ability to tell them in the moment as long as you both have the goodwill and you prioritize coming back together eventually.   Laura Dugger: (31:19 - 34:26) And now a brief message from our sponsor.   Did you know you can go to college tuition free just by being a team member at Chick-fil-A East Peoria? Yes, you heard that right. Free college education. All Chick-fil-A East Peoria team members in good standing are immediately eligible for a free college education through Point University.   Point University is a fully accredited private Christian college located in West Point, Georgia. This online self-paced program includes 13 associate's degrees, 17 bachelor's degrees, and two master's programs, including an MBA. College courses are fully transferable both in and out of this program. 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We love producing free content that's available to everyone around the world with our monthly newsletters when you sign up for our email list and with our weekly episodes. We pray that this has been a benefit to you. That if any episode has ever impacted you, what we ask is that you will partner with us now and generously and prayerfully give financially before the end of the year. There's multiple ways to do this. Online at thesavvysauce.com, you can donate through Stripe,  PayPal, or Venmo with just a simple click. Or you can send snail mail to us at Savvy Sauce Charities, P.O. Box 101 Roanoke, Illinois, 61561. We hope you choose to support us today and during this season especially.   It sounds like you really leaned into your friendships. So, what would you say you've learned about community both before and after your experience of launching Drew into space?   Stacey Morgan: (34:26 - 38:07) Well, I tell you what, I realized that as an adult often a lot of us don't really know how to do friendship well. And our culture is so, it so values independence that we often convince ourselves that if we tell our friends or our community that we need help or just kind of show our true heart for how important it is to us, that somehow that's gonna be kind of like devalued or we're gonna feel weak. And I realized like, “Man, I wasted a lot of years trying to be tougher than I really am.” And I wish I could go back and change that because in this season, mainly because I had no choice. And so, God really used this opportunity to show me like, “Hey, I'm gonna kind of like force you to open up your heart, be vulnerable with this small group of really trusted friends and like just trust me to see what happens next.”   And I did and it was a game-changer. I mean, I have a lot of deep feelings but I put a little bit of a tough exterior and I forced myself to be super honest and super vulnerable with my friends and say things like, “I'm lonely or I don't even know what I need but I'm just feeling exhausted or angry or this is really frustrating to me or I need help with this and I don't even know where to begin.” And just let those friends step into my life in a really intimate way.   And you know, I think we've all had a friend at some point who has asked for help and we have been so happy to help them and we've never thought less of them for it. But somehow when it comes to our own time we're like, “Oh, I don't want to trouble anybody. Oh, they're gonna think I can't handle it.” Or like, “Well, this is like I made this bed so I better lie in it. You chose to have all these kids, you chose this career, you chose this whatever, like this is your problem.” But we would never say that about another friend. And so, I don't know why we are harder on ourselves than we are on our friends because it's not right. Most of our friends are happy to help us. They love us helping us, being with us, comforting us, supporting us. That's how they show how important you are to them and we need to let them do that.   I've also gotten better about verbalizing the feelings that I had always felt inside but I felt awkward verbalizing. Like, “Thank you for being my friend.” Or like, “Thank you for just spending this time with me,” or, “You are an important person in my life.” Words that we say to our kids, that we often say to our spouses, but sometimes for me at least felt weird saying to friends and I'm really trying to get better about that. That was a great nine months of practice. It doesn't come easy or natural I think to anybody but it's a game changer. Like why not tell your friends how much they mean to you?   So, community is essential. Like don't try to lone wolf this life. I've certainly had some more extreme experiences than probably the average person, but the principles are the same. Get plugged into community and have multiple circles of community. Certainly, your faith community but also you know if you work, if you go to the gym, if you go to school, like your kids' friends, like there's so many circles of community and don't be afraid to just jump right in and get connected. And you've got to do it before you are in crisis. You've got to kind of invest in these friendships so that you know them and can trust these friends so that when those seasons come that are hard you have this small group of people who you can rely on. It will be a complete game changer in your life when you have a small, could be one person, can be two people, trusted people who can journey with you.   Laura Dugger: (38:07 - 38:34) I could not agree more. I really think that friendship is one of the most precious gifts were given in this life. And going back to your marriage we had discussed that time of separation but then there was a whole other season of transition as well. So, what was it like to come back together after being apart for nearly 10 months?   Stacey Morgan: (38:34 - 42:55) Yeah, so it's funny there's always these Hollywood romanticized versions of what reunions must look like whether that's a military deployment reunion or you know when an astronaut comes home. And I think people assume it's some kind of like hot sexy romantic can't keep hands off of you but the reality is far different, right? Because it's... I mean maybe it is, maybe that's how it is for some people. I will just say for us, you know, when you've been living an independent life for however long, whether that was you know a six-month or an eight-month deployment or a nine-month deployment to outer space, you know I was living my own life fully independent for that long where I made all the choices. I didn't have anybody looking over my shoulder or you know there's a little bit of independent freedom there when you're the only one kind of making the big decisions.   And so, when that person comes back into your life, which you want them to come back, you're happy they're home, but there is this awkward transition period. It's definitely an opportunity for some tension because now there's another opinion back in the mix, right?   Like I had to kind of adjust my way of doing life for another person who had a valid opinion, another decision maker. The kids had to adjust to having another parent back in the house. You're kind of getting to know each other so there is a little bit of a sniffing out period where you're like, “Hey, nice to meet you.” Because we all change. You know you could be gone from someone for a month, you know, you're not the same person you were today as you were last year or six months ago or maybe even a month ago. So, anytime someone comes back in your life they're different, you're a little different. You're like my friendships had shifted over those ten months, like my work had shifted, everything in my life had moved on and he had not been there in the house with me to experience that so there was... it was a whole new set of experiences and a new person to get to know again.   Now he came home and what made it a little bit more dramatic was that Drew came home in the startup of the pandemic. He came home in April of 2020 which at the time I think we weren't sure, “Are we going up? Are we coming down?” We know now looking back we realize things were just ramping up; the world was, we were all still very confused about what's the best thing to do can we all the things you know. So, NASA pretty much brought him home and then he came home to our house after just a few days in kind of the quarantine facility there on Johnson Space Center. But then he came back to our house and then it's like he never left because all of the normal stuff that would happen when you come home from space like travel and meetings and all these kind of things were all canceled or postponed.   And so, instead of kind of like getting to know each other slowly it was like zero to sixty. I mean he was home and he didn't go anywhere, none of us could go anywhere. So, we joke that the irony that he was in space with five professional crew mates in a small space and then he came home to live in our small space with five amateur crew mates who are certainly not nearly as gracious or accommodating or helpful as the professional astronaut and cosmonaut crew mates he had. The irony is not lost on us. So, he came home I don't think we've ever spent that amount of time together you know 24/7 in the same house with all four of our kids, no school, nowhere to go because everything's closed. And so yeah we're getting to know each other in this kind of Petri dish of new experiences as the world is also kind of like upside down and everything's unusual.   So, in the end it was okay. I joke like we did a lot of “I was like let me go do this puzzle I just need some alone time” or “I'm going for a walk around the neighborhood please don't text me. I'll be back when I'll be back I just need a few minutes to myself.” I think everybody has had that moment in the during the last two years where you're just like, “I just need a few minutes alone please,” you know in my if you've been trapped in your house with somebody who you're not normally with 24/7.   Laura Dugger: (42:56 - 43:17) Well sure and with your experience, mental health is very important for the family of the astronaut and the astronaut themselves. Wasn't it your psychologist who is saying typically when you come back and enter this time of reentry and reuniting you do little bit by little bit because that tends to be wiser?   Stacey Morgan: (43:17 - 45:22) Yes, that's right. They call it titrating a return. That's a principle they have in the military as well which is they would normally come back from a deployment for at least the first couple weeks back from a long trip away they would go to work every day for several hours because it's you know psychologically difficult for two people who have been living very independent lives to come back together just with like zero transition. The military has learned this over the last 20 years you know that you could go from a combat zone to mowing your lawn in 24 hours. That's stressful especially if you add in you know marriage baggage, kids you know nagging kids or issues like that, financial struggles, that's a kind of what can be a breeding ground for some really difficult situation. So, it's best to let people get to know each other again a little bit at a time.   Like you said the normal return from space was kind of the same thing. It would be come home and then you'd have some physical therapy, you'd have these different meetings and it would be a little bit like going to work for several weeks while they're getting their body and everything back to normal. Then, you kind of could have this kind of extended time at home but it gave both people the ability to kind of like reintroduce themselves to each other in bits and pieces and just kind of ease into it. But we did not have that luxury so we kind of had to create it ourselves. And I am glad again that we had those past experiences to know where the potential minefields were. If you were not prepared you could be very disappointed if you went into it thinking, “Oh, they're gonna come home, it's gonna be like romantic. We're gonna be like together and loving it all the time and just connecting so deeply. It's gonna be amazing.” And then the first time that your spouse is like, “Why are you emptying the dishwasher like that?” It's important to know like, “Yeah, if there is going to be tension it is going to be awkward. That's okay that is part of the normal cycle and it's gonna be okay.” But I'm glad that we had that knowledge beforehand because it could be tough.   Laura Dugger: (45:22 - 46:07) Well and Stacey another reason that I really appreciate you being willing to let us enter your story with you. When we have different careers or we have someone in the military and a civilian who's not involved, there's so much room for assumptions and maybe not always assuming the best. There's opportunity for miscommunication so I'm just wondering about the person who's hearing this and what if they're thinking, “Well that sounds irresponsible or even selfish of Drew to choose this path if he's a husband and father.” So, how would you offer that kind of person another perspective that they might be missing?   Stacey Morgan: (46:07 - 48:20) I mean I would say is when it comes to astronauts for sure, you know, these are not like hot-rodding thrill-seeking people. In fact, I would say I think a lot of people make the assumption that people who do some of these higher like physically higher risky jobs must be like thrill-seeking you know just thrown caution to the wind about everything in their life. Actually, nothing could be farther from the truth. I think you would find that we certainly and I would you know I think a lot of people in the same career field are similar and that we are good risk calculators. And that like policemen, like firemen, like military personnel you know it's an act of service to be in this job. These are not just like you know space tourists or billionaires getting on a rocket for fun. These are professionals who have chosen a career field of service and whether that is as a policeman, a fireman, a service to the nation, service to humanity, service to their community and they all play a part in that.   I think most people recognize that that it is you know there's something to be said for the person who chooses a career that has a level of risk because they feel called to it and because thank God for people who will take on risk and are willing to potentially sacrifice themselves for someone else. I mean I think it's kind of a higher calling which is why in general in our culture we honor them and rightfully so. It is risky, it's very risky. They certainly don't do it for the money. I don't think anybody in any kind of government service would say that they're doing it for the money, that's for sure. You know they're doing it because they feel called to something bigger than themselves and to serve their fellow man in some way. That's certainly I know how we feel as a family that his choosing to transition as an Army physician into being still in the Army but serving in this capacity was just the next level up. The way he could serve our community, our country, our nation and all of humanity and he really is its service first. It's the opposite of selfish; it is selfless service really.   Laura Dugger: (48:20 - 48:55) Mm-hmm thank you for that. I just say amen to everything you just said. Really it's service from your entire family that requires a sacrifice from each of you like you said for the greater good. And I think something else that you pointed out so well in your book was that having this value more so of security or not living into this calling that you said this calling was put upon your lives that could actually be idolatry if you're starting to place a higher value on security or anything else other than God and so I think you model that well.   Stacey Morgan: (48:55 - 51:13) Thank you. Yeah I think a lot of people you know sometimes these idols creep up on us we don't realize that we have put something on a pedestal until it gets threatened to be taken away from us and all of a sudden our reaction is over the top because we're you know you realize, “Gosh, I'm finding my security in this thing I'm finding my identity in this thing whether this thing is a job, another person, a political party, a scientific breakthrough whatever it is.” Right? Like and I think a lot of people, I certainly felt it you know in that launch moment like, “Am I finding my identity in being married to this person or him having this job or this launch being successful? Because if I am in about 10 seconds my world may crumble because if that could all be taken away from me.” And in that yeah I think we all kind of have probably had a moment especially in the last two years where for a lot of people something that they have built their life on has been either taken away from them or has it has been threatened to be taken away because of the pandemic a job a person in their life you know a relationship your kids going off to school every day I mean whatever it is that you've built in your life and you have put on this pedestal and you kind of made without even realizing it have started to place more hope in those things remaining unchanged than you have in God. And all of a sudden when those things are threatened you have this over-the-top emotionally fearful response that's kind of an indicator I think to all of us like when we have that is like, “Whoo my fear and my response should tell me that I seem to be very very afraid that this is going to be taken away from me because I am putting too much hope in it. Instead, I should be taking that and putting it back where it belongs. I should reprioritize where I am finding my hope and the only unchanging thing that we can build our foundation on is God. Everything else, every person, everything, every job, every whatever it is can and could possibly be taken away from you and on your deathbed will be.” So, you know you can't help but have a little bit of self-reflection there.   Laura Dugger: (51:13 - 51:23) Well and then for all of us how do you recommend that we all can rediscover our fun side when we've been trapped in survival mode for too long?   Stacey Morgan: (51:23 - 56:05) This is a great question because I think all of us have felt this definitely in the pandemic. You know this part in your life where everything in the world feels very chaotic and so you try to regain some control in your own life by maybe regimenting your kids a little more, cleaning your house a little more, you know, controlling things at work or whatever your environment is. And without really realizing it you become this just like survival mode like your day just becomes about making things easier for yourself, streamlining things, making things just go go go. And you wake up one day and you were like, “I'm exhausted. Like why am I so tired? Why am I why do I have like no joy? Why do I just feel unhappy?” And you realize that you have not done anything other than just be like surviving and cleaning and doing work or whatever it is like you have just been doing the basics with no fun whatsoever.   So I have been there I hit that a bunch of times in the pandemic, but I certainly hit it when Drew was in space because it's really hard being a single parent and managing all of the emotional burdens and the logistics of it. And I realized that I was cleaning a lot I was kind of getting a little bit more trigger angry with kids or people who you know were making me upset because when you're in survival mode it's all about just like “Get out of my way let me do what I want to do,” it's about getting things done quickly and other people become an annoyance instead of a joy in your life.   So it's all about going back to something that that fills you up and it can be something really frivolous it can be something like it's very it's 100% unique to you and so I can't tell you what that thing is but I would say the first step in kind of getting yourself out of survival mode and kind of getting back to your your whole self is asking yourself the question like, “What do I enjoy?” Not for its educational value, not for its good cardio exercise or and not what your kids enjoy, not what is Instagram worthy, or anything like in your soul what fills you up? Is it reading? Is it watching movies? Is it riding bikes? Is it roller skating? Is it you know eating Mexican food? Like what is it that you enjoy doing that when you do it you just feel like more of yourself?   And then just go do it tomorrow. Like it's gonna take prioritizing time probably some money but that is as much of a part of who you are how God created you. He didn't make you this like worker bot or like just a mom or just a wife or just a daughter or a sister like He made you a whole person and a huge part of who you are are these things that you enjoy. And you cannot continue to pour into other people or work or your community if you are never getting filled up yourself. You will just dry out, you will be burnt out, you'll be unhappy and you'll actually be worse in all these other areas where you were trying to work hard because you're just gonna be like a shell of yourself.   So, for me it was prioritizing time with friends. It was... I got this crazy flyer on my front door for roller skating lessons and I had this fantasy of being a really good roller skater that stemmed from like when I was eight and so I signed my girls and I up for roller skating lessons which was hilarious and very humbling but it was just silly. It took time, we had to prioritize the time on every Saturday it took money, but it was just fun. It had no educational value my kids will look back on it and be like, “What was that all about? I don't even know.” But it was great because even in the midst of a stressful season like that was a very stressful season, undeniable, but as part of that narrative it will not only be like, “Yeah it was really tough when my dad was away and you know my mom had to like single-parent us but that was also the season where my mom took us to roller skating lessons. Isn't that weird? That was so weird.” And we'll laugh about it.   And so, it's just about finding something that you want to do and then just unapologetically spend the money, spend the time, and invite a friend to do it with you again. Doing something with a friend is always more fun than doing something alone. Don't feel like you have to justify it or explain it to everyone you don't need to take pictures to post online you don't need to tell it just just go do it and have a good time. It's amazing how when you do that suddenly like those dust bunnies or that email that had a weird tone that you got don't annoy you as much as they used to because your kind of like finding your whole self again.   Laura Dugger: (56:05 - 56:27) That's helpful to remember to live life to the fullest and be ready for the next adventure that life's gonna throw at us. Yeah. And just as a bonus can we just ask what are some of the most common questions that you and Drew answer about space?   Stacey Morgan: (56:27 - 57:25) That's a good question. A lot of like personal hygiene questions about teeth brushing toilets how do you know take showers or whatever and of course the answer is they don't take showers. But and then of course a lot of people want to know, “Hey I've always been interested in becoming an astronaut how does somebody do that?”   And there are so many resources online people you know I say, “Look go online read all about it. There's amazing videos NASA puts out an incredible amount of resources that you can read up on but at the end of the day do what you are most passionate about because the likelihood that you, or your nephew, or your cousin, or your co-worker, your son, or, whoever it is that you know is convinced they want to be an astronaut the likelihood of them being an astronaut is very low. So you should do what just fills you up do a career and a life that you are passionate about and if God calls you to that path those doors will open but if He doesn't you'll still be living a life fully within God's purpose for you.”   Laura Dugger: (57:25 - 57:39) And Stacey you're such an incredible communicator both in this interview time together but also really enjoyed your book. And so, if people want to follow you to hear what you're up to next, where would you direct them online?   Stacey Morgan: (57:39 - 58:41) Sure well they can go to my website StaceyMorgan2000. That's like Stacey Morgan two zero zero zero dot com. That has my blog that has links to a different podcast like this that I've been on and they can check that out. They can find me on Instagram same handle StaceyMorgan2000.   And you know if people want to reach out, I love when people have been sending me messages lately after they've read the book it's been so awesome. You know I tell people like I certainly didn't write this book for the money I'm actually donating all my book proceeds to charities that support military families. So, I've been joking like, “Hey read the book if you don't like it the worst that happened is you donated to a military charity. If you do like it buy ten copies and give one to all your friends. But if you do like it I love it when people send me messages and just tell me kind of like what resonated and how it spoke to them.” That's just been one of the I would say the coolest aspect of completing this project was kind of putting it out there and then getting to see how God uses it in people's lives.   Laura Dugger: (58:41 - 59:02) There were so many things that resonated but off the top of my head if anybody has a copy of the book they'll have to turn to the part about baloney on sale friends. And Stacey you may know that we're called The Savvy Sauce because savvy is synonymous with practical knowledge and so as my final question for you today what is your savvy sauce?   Stacey Morgan: (59:02 - 1:01:08) Well I'll piggyback off your baloney is on sale friends' reference and that would be: pick up the phone and text your friend. We didn't need a study to show us this because I think most of us have just known this in our soul but there is an endemic of loneliness in the world right now as you know we've got all these ways to connect and yet people feel more disconnected. They feel more lonely especially women and what I learned through my own kind of relationship struggles over the years is that everyone's waiting for someone else to go first. That you in that moment you feel like you're the only person who's feeling lonely and alone and that everybody else is in these friend circles and you're just somehow on the outside. But the reality is that pretty much everybody feels the same way you do and everybody's sitting at home wishing someone would just text them and invite them to coffee.   So that's my practical tip is don't wait, go first be the bold friend or even acquaintance like it doesn't have to be someone that you are super besties with. But those baloney is on sale friends like I said you have to read the book and understand that that is like a special category of friendship that's the kind of friendship that our soul longs for but those things don't appear or like pop out of the ground. That kind of friend doesn't just show up it's developed over time it's invested in and cared for and loved and it starts with literally a text to go get coffee. That's how every great friendship story begins. So, if that's you, if you feel like yeah I don't have this close friend who I can do something with I'm lonely. Okay take that first step be the one who picks up the phone send that text message to the woman from church, or the woman from the gym, or that friend you haven't talked to in a while and just invite them over for coffee. Nothing fancy nothing crazy no agenda just come over for a couple hours for coffee. Every single person I know who does this no one ever regrets inviting a friend over for coffee. That's the first step that we can all take into just feeling more connected and having those kind of friends that we want.   Laura Dugger: (1:01:08 - 1:01:31) Love it. Well Stacy your book definitely changed my perspective on risk and I was so hooked on all the stories that you shared so I believe that your book is truly a gift to anyone who chooses to read it and your faith is very inspiring so thank you for sharing your journey with us and thank you for being my guest.   Stacey Morgan: (1:01:31 – 1:01:33) Well, thank you it's been great.   Laura Dugger: (1:01:33 – 1:05:16) One more thing before you go, have you heard the term gospel before? It simply means good news. And I want to share the best news with you, but it starts with the bad news.   Every single one of us were born sinners, but Christ desires to rescue us from our sin, which is something we cannot do for ourselves. This means there's absolutely no chance we can make it

Tomorrow I will be in Roanoke, Virginiaparticipating and speaking at a celebration of life service for a dear, dearsaint of God, Nancy Young. I'll tell you more about Nancy's and her life thatwas, “A Life Well Lived”, later in this blog. Matterof fact her life “measured up to the stature of the fullness of Christ”, thatPaul desired for every believer here in Ephesians 4. Today we begin looking atthis next section of the chapter where we learn about the “growth of unity” inthe local church. From verse 11 we are told this growth takes after, “HeHimself gives some apostles, and some prophets, some evangelists, and somepastors and teachers.” He does this for the purpose which we find in verses12-16. Thisis a very special passage of scripture that gives us exactly what the pastorsand leaders of the church should be doing. That is equipping the saints for thework of the ministry and for the spiritual growth and maturity of theindividual members.  Overmy 50 plus years as a pastor, if I ever knew someone that was a part of comingto the fullness of unity in Christ, coming to a place of full maturity in thebody of Christ and building up the body of Christ, and doing their part to makesure the church of Christ, the body of Christ, was the kind of church it shouldbe, it was Nancy Young. I've had the privilege of being her pastor for the pastthirty-some years now. As I think about the ministry we had together in thelocal church there at Rainbow Forest Baptist Church, of which she was a faithfulmember for the last 40 years, I watched as the Lord used Nancy in a wonderfulway to touch the lives of so many people. Manyof you probably didn't know that Nancy grew up in Africa with her parents, whowent there in 1945 when she was 3 years old. They were first missionaries inthe Congo, and then in Burundi, where during their ministry, there was aterrible genocide taking place. In her personal eight-page typed testimony thatshe recently wrote for her RFBC Sunday School class, she said from birth shewas taught the Word of God by her parents and had memorized Psalm 23 by thetime she was one year old. How amazing is that!!!!  Nancygrew up in Africa up to the time, when as a teenager she went to WheatonCollege back in the states. It was at Wheaton College that she developed apassion to teach children God's word. Not long after college, that she gotinvolved in WRE, (Weekly Religious Education). Now for over 55 plus years,every week you could find her teaching children the Bible in the public schoolsystem, usually meeting in a small trailer across the street from the school,like she did at Colonial Elementary School near where I lived. Ijust am so thankful for her faithful dedication to this ministry because manyof my grandchildren sat under her Bible teaching. Nancy actually taught mydaughters-in-law, Crystal Floyd Grooms when she was a girl. Remember Crystal,(and she won't mind that I say this), today is in her 40s. Yet when she was alittle girl at Colonial Elementary, she sat under Nancy's teaching. Nancyis a wonderful example of someone who loved the Lord, loved her husband, lovedher family, loved ministry, loved teaching God's Word, and had a grasp of the Wordof God in its entirety. She truly was an example of a mature believer who livedin the fullness of Jesus Christ. Oh, what a blessing it has been to be herpastor. We're celebrating her homegoing tomorrow (Tuesday) with her family.We're excited about how God's going to speak to the lives of many even in theservice.  Itrust you have been encouraged by her testimony that I have shared in today'schat. I trust that you are being equipped for the work of the ministry likeNancy Young was. May the Lord also use you to affect and influence the lives ofhundreds of others as He blesses and leads you.  Godbless!

Looking for terrifying Christmas horror stories to binge this December? This Weekly Spooky holiday special unleashes nine brutal Christmas horror tales packed with killer Santas, vengeful Krampus spirits, murderous androids, and snow-choked nightmares — the perfect Christmas horror podcast compilation for wrapping gifts, long drives, or late-night chills. Settle in for over-the-top holiday carnage as we revisit listener-favorite stories from across the Weekly Spooky vault, curated into one seamless Christmas horror anthology. From backwoods bloodbaths and cursed gifts to AI Santas gone rogue and Christmas Eve in a haunted psych ward, this bingeable episode delivers everything you love about the season… and everything you're secretly afraid of. Inside this episode:• All I Want For Christmas — by Morgan MooreA devoted father wants to give his daughter the perfect Christmas… even if it means doing something unimaginably horrific. As his plan spirals out of control, this tale asks just how far love — and denial — will go when the holiday lights are glaring and the secrets are buried deep. • Blood on the Snow — by Shane MigliavaccaOn Christmas Eve, bodies are piling up and a brutal killer stalks a snow-swept road. When a stranger stumbles into a roadhouse full of uneasy locals, blizzard-bound murder mystery turns into a fight for survival against something far more vicious than the storm outside. • Santa Claus is Killin' the Town — by Morgan MooreA cozy trip home for the holidays becomes a small-town Christmas slasher when an old local legend crashes the party. At the quaint Chamberlain Inn, tinsel, nostalgia, and hot cocoa give way to blood, panic, and the horrifying truth behind the town's festive folklore. • Krampus Is Comin' — by Rob FieldsA young woman becomes host to the spirit of Krampus on Christmas Eve, and suddenly the naughty finally get what's coming to them. This one is a bloody revenge fantasy where ho-ho-ho turns into no-no-NO as Krampus uses her body to settle every score. • Operation Deadly Night — by Keith TomlinA futuristic Santa Claus mod for home androids is supposed to spread cheer… until a glitch turns them into jolly killing machines. Families across America find themselves barricaded in their own homes, battling friendly-faced robots who only want one thing this Christmas: your last breath. • Dead Silent Night — by David O'HanlonLust, dark elves, and twisted tradition collide in a wickedly funny Christmas nightmare. What starts as a kinky holiday encounter turns into a deadly game where the “helpers” of the season have teeth, claws, and a very different wish list than you were expecting. • 12 Days — by Mike AshkeweFar from Earth on a ship called the Roanoke, a pilot trapped in deep space faces AI sabotage, time slipping, and existential dread over twelve long days of Christmas. This eerie sci-fi tale turns festive countdowns into a cosmic death sentence where no signal home can save you.  • A Christmas to Remember — by Joe SolmoDonnie finally comes home hoping for a fresh start, but the sins of his past are waiting under the tree. As old grudges ignite and fate takes a grisly turn, this story pushes holiday redemption into a dark corner where forgiveness and revenge are soaked in blood. • Xmas at the Psych Ward — by Bruce HaneyIt's Christmas Eve in a 1960s psychiatric hospital, complete with strange patients, questionable treatments, and staff who are hiding more than they heal. When the snow falls and the power flickers, holiday cheer curdles into institutional horror — and someone (or something) inside isn't staying in their room tonight. Whether you're decorating the tree, wrapping presents, or doom-scrolling through December, this Christmas horror stories marathon is built for bingeing: one epic episode, nine chilling tales, and enough killer Santas, Krampus justice, and winter nightmares to carry you straight through the season.Hit play, my spookies, and make Weekly Spooky your go-to Christmas horror podcast for long winter nights.

Novembers theme is reflecting on the idea of home and how we connect to our communities.My guests include Doc McClintock, a trans woman folk singer songwriter from Roanoke, Virginia who's music focuses on addiction loss and working class struggle, she's joined by Alaina Crackoviack on fiddle. Her songwriting is deeply influenced by her experience living on the fringes of rural Appalachia with a focus on addiction, loss, queerness and working class struggle. She ignites a fusion of rowdy traditional Appalachian string music and introspective folk.  Learn more: https://soundcloud.com/user-781318670Chanell Burnette is a poet, author and she has the unique perspective of recently being released from a Virginia Appalachian Prison after 19 years incarcerated. She is a mother to 2, and a grandmother to 3. She is an author and her mission is to bring awareness to the suffering endured behind bars in hopes that people will remember our shared humanity. Learn more: https://www.themarshallproject.org/2023/04/28/i-raised-my-kids-from-prison-im-coming-home-to-a-grandsonAnd Solar Hex is an experimental cellist, harmonium player and old time songstress. Learn more: https://solarhex.bandcamp.com/Appalachian Vibes Radio Show from WNCW is listener nominated, you can nominate an artist by emailing Amanda at appalachianvibes@gmail.com. Appalachian Vibes Radio Show is created and produced by Amanda Bocchi, a neo soul singer-songwriter, multi instrumentalist and journalist hailing from the Appalachian Mountains of Virginia.

Chanell Burnette is a newly returning citizen to Roanoke after serving 19 years in an Appalachian Virginia prison. She is a mother to two, and a grandmother to three. She is an author and her mission is to bring awareness to the suffering endured behind bars in hopes that people will remember our shared humanity.  This episode of Appalachian Vibes was recorded in front of a live audience at 3rd Street Coffee House in Roanoke, November 1 2025. You can learn more about Chanell at https://prisonjournalismproject.org/author/chanell-burnette/ or https://www.themarshallproject.org/2023/04/28/i-raised-my-kids-from-prison-im-coming-home-to-a-grandsonAppalachian Vibes Radio Show from WNCW is listener nominated, you can nominate an artist by emailing Amanda at appalachianvibes@gmail.com. Appalachian Vibes Radio Show is created and produced by Amanda Bocchi, a neo soul singer-songwriter, multi instrumentalist and journalist hailing from the Appalachian Mountains of Virginia.

Doc McClintock is a folk singer-songwriter born and raised in Roanoke, Virginia. Her songwriting is deeply influenced by her experience living on the fringes of rural Appalachia with a focus on addiction, loss, queerness and working class struggle. She ignites a fusion of rowdy traditional Appalachian string music and introspective folk.  Novembers theme is reflecting on the idea of home and how we connect to our communities.This episode of Appalachian vibes was recorded in front of a live audience November 3rd 2025 at 3rd street coffeehouse in Roanoke, Virginia,  Song title "A Place to Rest" Learn more about Doc at https://www.instagram.com/doc_mcclintock/?hl=enAppalachian Vibes Radio Show from WNCW is listener nominated, you can nominate an artist by emailing Amanda at appalachianvibes@gmail.com. Appalachian Vibes Radio Show is created and produced by Amanda Bocchi, a neo soul singer-songwriter, multi instrumentalist and journalist hailing from the Appalachian Mountains of Virginia.

To follow up my perspective seeking conversation with Gray Parsons of the Secotan Alliance, I sat down next with Chief Marilyn Berry Morrison of the Roanoke-Hatteras Tribe. I asked Chief Morrison the same question: why do you think the misconception exists that Indigenous Americans no longer exist in the eastern part of the United States? She had similar thoughts to share. Chief Morrison spoke a lot about fear and shame stemming from the trauma of the past. She also clued me in to a personal journey she's been on for quite some time, a journey to get state and national recognition for her ancestry and her tribe, the Roanoke-Hatteras, and the unnecessary difficulty involved in the process. Again, this is a must listen! Support the show! Join the Patreon (patreon.com/historyfixpodcast)Buy some merchBuy Me a CoffeeVenmo @Shea-LaFountaineSources: Native Heritage Project “The Pierce Family of Tyrrell County”“Deliver Us from Evil: The Slavery Question in the Old South” by Lacy K. FordShoot me a message! Shop for History Fix merch here to support the show! Support the show

What happened to the lost colony of Roanoke?In the 1580s Sir Walter Raleigh set about establishing a permanent English colony on Roanoke Island, off the coast of North Carolina. But within a few years the settlement and its colonists had mysteriously vanished. Ever since, historians and archaeologists have tried to piece together what really happened to the colonists.Professor Suzannah Lipscomb is joined by archaeologist Professor Mark Horton to explore one of history's great unsolved puzzles.MORE:Walter Raleigh's Quest for El DoradoListen on AppleListen on SpotifyThe Dark Side of Sir Francis DrakeListen on AppleListen on SpotifyPresented by Professor Suzannah Lipscomb. The researcher is Max Wintle, audio editor is Amy Haddow and the producer is Rob Weinberg. The senior producer is Anne-Marie Luff.All music courtesy of Epidemic Sounds.Not Just the Tudors is a History Hit podcastSign up to History Hit for hundreds of hours of original documentaries, with a new release every week. Sign up at https://www.historyhit.com/subscribe. You can take part in our listener survey here: https://insights.historyhit.com/history-hit-podcast-always-on Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Healing Through Laughter: Dave Ebert on Comedy, Faith, and Overcoming Trauma In this episode, Diana rebroadcasts the interview of the late Dave Ebert, who passed away unexpectedly July 2, 2024. He discusses his journey from struggling with depression and contemplating suicide to becoming a renowned improv coach, pastor, and comedian. Dave, who founded Gifts for Glory Ministries, shares his early love for entertaining, the personal struggles he faced, and how faith and comedy became his tools for healing and helping others. He also explores his work with the Salt and Light Coalition, helping survivors of sex trafficking through improv, which aids in their communication skills and self-esteem. The episode delves into the importance of connection, trust, and the transformative power of laughter in overcoming trauma and finding hope. We hope you enjoy hearing Dave's legacy and timeless advice.  You will hear the second interview of Dave and his wife's missionary work next episode. 00:00 Introduction and Sponsor Message 00:47 Meet Your Host, Diana 01:34 Introducing Dave Ebert 02:51 Dave's Childhood and Early Love for Comedy 03:45 Struggles with Family and Faith 07:30 Turning Point: Finding Faith and Purpose 10:57 Battling Depression and Suicidal Thoughts 21:04 The Power of Presence and Support 24:25 A New Beginning in Chicago 26:32 Starting a Faith-Based Improv Team 27:32 Creating Clean Comedy for All Ages 29:10 Using Comedy as a Ministry Tool 31:50 Connecting with Salt and Light Coalition 33:12 Teaching Improv to Trafficking Survivors 36:20 Stories of Transformation Through Improv 44:18 Current Projects and Online Improv Shows 47:16 Offering Support and Contact Information 50:47 Final Thoughts and Podcast Information   Website: https://dswministries.org Subscribe to the podcast: https://dswministries.org/subscribe-to-podcast/ Social media links: Join our Private Wounds of the Faithful FB Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/1603903730020136 Twitter: https://twitter.com/DswMinistries YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCxgIpWVQCmjqog0PMK4khDw/playlists Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/dswministries/ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/DSW-Ministries-230135337033879 Keep in touch with me! Email subscribe to get my handpicked list of the best resources for abuse survivors! https://thoughtful-composer-4268.ck.page #abuse #trauma Affiliate links: Our Sponsor: 753 Academy: https://www.753academy.com/ Can't travel to The Holy Land right now? The next best thing is Walking The Bible Lands! Get a free video sample of the Bible lands here! https://www.walkingthebiblelands.com/a/18410/hN8u6LQP An easy way to help my ministry: https://dswministries.org/product/buy-me-a-cup-of-tea/ A donation link: https://dswministries.org/donate/   Dave Ebert  [00:00:00] Special thanks to 7 5 3 Academy for sponsoring this episode. No matter where you are in your fitness and health journey, they've got you covered. They specialize in helping you exceed your health and fitness goals, whether that is losing body fat, gaining muscle, or nutritional coaching to match your fitness levels. They do it all with a written guarantee for results so you don't waste time and money on a program that doesn't exceed your goals. There are martial arts programs. Specialize in anti-bullying programs for kids to combat proven Filipino martial arts. They take a holistic, fun, and innovative approach that simply works. Sign up for your free class now. It's 7 5 3 academy.com. Find the link in the show notes. Welcome to the Wounds of the Faithful Podcast, brought to you by DSW Ministries. Your host is singer songwriter, speaker and domestic violence advocate, [00:01:00] Diana . She is passionate about helping survivors in the church heal from domestic violence and abuse and trauma. This podcast is not a substitute for professional counseling or qualified medical help. Now here is Diana. Hello everyone. Thanks for joining us today. You know, I've been telling you there are many paths and tools for healing and comedy is one of them. I think you'll enjoy our podcast today, friends. Our guest, Dave Ebert is the founder of Gifts for Glory Ministries. Dave is an improv coach, speaker, pastor, actor, and improv performer with his wife Bobby, residing in Chicago, Illinois. Gifts for Glory is ready to provide high quality, clean family friendly entertainment and professional [00:02:00] improv coaching to survivors of sex trafficking. Hey, welcome to the show Dave. Hey, thanks so much for having me. I'm, uh, really looking forward to having our conversation. Your bio is so impressive. I had trouble. Uh, shortening it for the intro. I'm sorry, I, I try to provide enough information, but, uh, I, I could have probably shortened it, but maybe it's because I'm a pastor. I just like to embellish and go on for a long, long period of time. So we're gonna fill in the blanks here and throughout our time together, and I can't wait to hear some good jokes. We will. We'll see what comes up. I'm an improviser, so nothing's ever planned. So if there's a moment of funny, yeah, I just give God the credit and if there's not, it's just, I don't know. We'll see. So tell us about your childhood. Were you always funny or into comedy? I really [00:03:00] was, uh, one of the earliest pictures of me other than, you know, baby pictures, uh, was a old Polaroid of, uh, me flexing, like I was in a bodybuilding contest because we we're at the city pool. There was an actual, like a swimsuit or bodybuilding competition going on on the other side. And my parents and their friends were just there at the pool and I was like, no, they're not gonna get the attention. I'm gonna get the attention. So there's this picture of me flexing my little chubby 2-year-old arms and it was like, I, I love to entertain and I love the attention and trying to, uh, get people an opportunity to laugh. So yeah, pretty much my entire life, um. Uh, I, I just liked it. I enjoyed, and I lived off of people's laughter. Now, did you experience any trauma in your life? There were, um, there wasn't any like one singular event, like a, a massive. You know, tragedy. But my dad was in Vietnam. He was in the [00:04:00] Vietnam War, and he got in contact with that chemical agent Orange that, uh, I've heard about. And, uh, that just ravaged his body. You know, when he hit 30, he was, you know, a healthy, strong 30-year-old guy working in the trades, and he was disabled by the time he was. 37, 38, um, from heart attacks, from just loss of, uh, dexterity in his hands and uh, and losing his ability to even walk. And it was all, uh, just complications and, and complications from the agent Orange. And so we were living in Chicago at that. You know, when I was first born and then when he'd had his third heart attack, we had to move out of the city and get away from the fast pace of Chicago and went down to Virginia where it's a lot slower lifestyle, a little bit easier for him to handle that kind of stress. But over the next 20 or so years as his health failed, there were a lot of conflicts in the home [00:05:00] between he and mom, between he and myself, and, um, so it was. It wasn't a tragic event, it was just this long period of watching my dad lose his ability to do the things that men do, like work with their hands, play with their son, hang out with their son, things like that. And, uh, you're not able to handle that because we really didn't have a strong faith. Base. So there was nothing kind of anchoring us in that storm. Mm-hmm. And so it was over, you know, two decades that, you know, there's just a lot of little traumas. Little fights, uh, big fights and, and things like that. We said we were Christian and we went to church. Um. Uh, fairly regularly, uh, mostly for holidays and potlucks. Uh, but um, we, uh, we said we were Christian, but it kind of [00:06:00] only existed from 11 to 12 on, on Sundays. Uh, we lived decently. We weren't out killing people. We weren't doing drugs and like that, but, um, but we weren't really like practicing. We didn't say, you know, grace at meals. We didn't pray together. We, I don't think I ever saw an either of my parents actually open a Bible. So we were kind of Christians in name only. Um, we had the, the membership card went to the meetings, but we didn't actually do a lot of practicing outside of church. So kinda like Chris and dumb. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Kind of, kind of creases with a little bit more regular attendance because the church I grew up in, uh, or at least as a kid, they had a lot of potlucks. It, it was almost like the one way to guarantee people would come. It was like, yeah, we're gonna have a potluck to celebrate this this weekend. And I love the potlucks because there's always at least five to sometimes six, uh, different varieties of mac and cheese, and that's my favorite. Favorite. Yes. [00:07:00] Yes. Mac and cheese. Yes. Mashed potatoes. Mm-hmm. Mashed potatoes, uh, all sorts of desserts. And, uh, for your, your listeners, they won't know this, but if they see, you know, my headshot or whatnot, I, I'm not a small individual and I will put the blame firmly on that church. Where all the potlucks, oh, they fed me, but not spiritually. Oh. That's funny. So when did you meet the Lord for real? Well, my story's kind of unique or maybe it's not. Um, but for me it depends on what your personal theology is to interpret it. I. Going into my sixth grade year, uh, that, that summer before my sixth grade year, I went to a summer camp and I, uh, went, you know, we had devotions each night at a campfire. And I remember on Thursday night, the day before, the night before we're leaving. [00:08:00] Something at the devotion spoke to me and I said, on my way by myself, said That little sinners prayer of Jesus coming to my heart. I want to make you Lord. Um, and you know, I remember the prayer, I remember walking up that gravel driveway up towards the cabin. And, but like I said, it kind of hinted at there wasn't a lot of discipleship for young believers at my church. So. It was like, oh, I accepted Christ. What does that mean? What do I do with it? And so from that year. For many years after, I never really got truly discipled to understand what it meant to be a Christ follower. And through my depression and the, you know, just some of the choices I made, I kind of walked away from that. So if you believe that you can walk away from salvation, then you could say that I walked away from it. Uh, some believe once saved, always saved. So you can either choose that summer or you can look to, uh, January, 2013 when. Uh, [00:09:00] still wrestling, depression, still looking for purpose in life. I was walking to work, uh, on a Saturday morning and. There were these two kids from a local Bible college out there looking for people to witness to, uh, they had the, uh, tract, which, uh, for anybody that doesn't know tract is a small graphic novel that, uh, kind of tells the gospel story. And, um, so they were out there and there's really no reason for them to be there 'cause it wasn't a very populated area. Um, so there really wouldn't be a lot of people out there on a Saturday morning. So it was obviously a divine appointment. They gave me the track and they offered to pray for me, but I didn't, you know, I kind of blew them off. Said, yeah, I'm a Christian, I'm saved. Yeah, I'm good, but I gotta get to work. But because they were there, they passed out the track and because of a lot of stuff that was leading up to that moment, it was like, okay, God, I'm ready to submit. I'm, I'm ready. So that night I, uh, opened up my, uh, Rick Warren, purpose Driven Life. I started reading [00:10:00] my, uh, dollar General, uh, king James version Bible got all the way through Deuteronomy before. I was like, I need something simpler. Uh, yeah. But, uh, yeah. Um, those two kids, I don't know if I'll ever see them again, at least not in this life, but they were kind of the straw that broke the camel's back to where I made the decision because I was still wrestling with depression and I was literally at this place where I was on top of, I, I described it as I was on a peak of a mountaintop where. I was still considering, you know, taking my life so I could either go left and just take my life and, and end it once and for all, or I could go right and give my life and fully submit to God. And that was kind of the moment that kind of clenched it for me to take that step towards God and really for the first time, pursue a relationship with him. So that was in, uh, January of, uh, 2013. So let's unpack the. Part where you talked about you wanted to end [00:11:00] your life. What happened there? It was a, a culmination of a lot of things. I, I had a lot of dreams and ideals of what life should look like, and this started in, uh, junior high and high school. Um, and then, uh, you know, combine that with, uh, this struggle with my relationship with my dad. Um, you know, not ever quite being good enough because he always had, sometimes these. Surreal expectations and, and when I didn't meet them, I felt like a failure and, you know, just all these different things. Um, it just added up to one night. I remember, um, I was pursuing this, this young lady to date her in high school and you know, for the first time I was like, this might be the one that I actually get her to date me. And then, um. Afternoon, after I talked to her in the morning, I saw her walking, holding hands with somebody else, and that was. [00:12:00] Kind of the straw that broke the camel's back the other way, uh, to where I entered into that depression. And, uh, it just kept getting deeper. The more my dad and I fought, the more my mom and dad fought. You know, it just got deeper and through, um, my junior year, senior year high school, all through college, after college for many years, uh, through my first marriage, you know, just. That voice was always in the back of my head, you're not worthy. Um, no one's gonna truly love you. Um, might as well end the pain now. And so I just, I really wrestled with the idea of suicide. There were times that I was ready to do it, but I cursed myself for being too weak or too afraid to commit. But looking back, it was that, as the Bible calls it, the still small voice. That was, you know, just kind of coaxing me to don't give in just yet. Don't give in just yet. So looking back, obviously God was [00:13:00] there with me the entire time. It's just I didn't realize who that voice was or why I was not able to fully take that next step. It was because God was there trying to yank and pull me back from the edge. Wow. I'm sure a lot of our listeners can relate to, um, the things that you're saying right now about wanting to end it all. Now, did you cover up your depression, your feelings? Did anybody else know about that? I covered it. Um, as I mentioned, I love to entertain people, make people laugh. So it started off very, when I was very young. It was just this pure thing of enjoying the laughter and enjoying giving that gift to people. But when I entered the Depression, it became a defense mechanism where I would keep people from seeing what I was feeling and also try to prevent them from feeling the darkness I felt. If I could do that, if I could make somebody laugh, if I could [00:14:00] entertain somebody, if I could make somebody feel better, then I was able to justify living for the next week or the next day or what have you. And so comedy or making people laugh was where I found my worth and my value. And if I went too far and I offended somebody, if I hurt somebody's feelings, uh, or if I said something that just kind of embarrassed me. It went into the spiral where it was like, see, even the one thing you count on for value you fail at. And so it would spiral me and it was like, man, I just, I need to drive my truck off this cliff, or I need to, um, do this or that other thing to myself just, and I always wanted to leave it as an ac, you know, make it look like it was an accident. Um, whenever I really contemplated, uh, suicide because I didn't want the embarrassment. I didn't want people to judge me and say things about me, and I also didn't want the judgment to follow my [00:15:00] parents or anybody else because I didn't want them to be punished for what I was going through. So I always tried to make it or plan out to look like an accident. Um, one night I in particular, I remember driving home late at night through the mountain roads. It was maybe three or four in the morning, and I just was at this breaking point and I prayed. I said, God, if you don't want me to do this, gimme a sign. Do something. And if you think about Pure Flix movies or a Hallmark movie, you know, you think in that moment, all of a sudden the sky opens and the lights shines, and the angels come down. And, but in that moment, it felt like it got darker. It almost, it felt like, like God actually got quieter. Than, than I felt he had been. And so I got mad and I got angry at God. And I, I think I probably said a few curse words at him and, and said, you know, whatever. And I got mad and I drove [00:16:00] home. But here's the, the thing about it, I drove home. I didn't drive to the left off that cliff and. I, I say that that was a moment where God knew what I needed. It's not conventional, it's not what you would expect, but it's what I needed. 'cause he knew I'd go mad or I would get mad, and he knew that he would have to take some barbs from me in that anger. But it was God laying himself down for me in that moment so that I would go home instead of, you know, take my life. And that's just another thing that I look back on and say, wow, God was there this whole time. Wow. I've never contemplated suicide myself. I've had some really dark times with my, abuse history. Mm-hmm. Now I've had depression before. Mm-hmm. But it wasn't so much that I needed to take medication. Um, it was just this cloud of darkness and like [00:17:00] sitting in a pit. Yeah. That you can't get out of and it's no amount of positive thinking is going to do it. Right. It just took a long time to crawl out of that. These brilliant people, you know, we're talking about comedy and the most brilliant comedian was Robin Williams. Sure. And he was so funny. And, yeah. When he took his own life after battling depression, um, I really mourned his death. 'cause Yeah. Yeah. It, and that's one of the things where it shows that fame, fortune, having everything at, at your fingertips, it's not a substitute for. Anything because you look at Rob Williams, you think about even, you know, they don't classify necessarily as a suicide. You look, but you look at somebody like Chris Farley, uh, John Belushi, um, the lifestyle that those two guys [00:18:00] chose and the way that they treated their bodies was kind of a long term suicide because they did not take care of their bodies. And I'm not talking about being heavy. I'm talking about the drugs, the drinking, the things like the partying. For hours upon hours on end, it was they were trying to fill something in their soul that they couldn't fill. Um, so for, and I don't say these things as judgment. Mm-hmm. I say these things as warnings. Um, heads up. If you see somebody that is trying to fill their life with partying, find the time when they're sober and talk to them. See if there's something going on. Uh, and like you look at somebody like Robin Williams. It's a very hard thing to know how to handle that because you don't know what his family life was like. Did he have somebody in his, in his corner that knew what he is wrestling with and they were just happened to be gone in an, in the instant that he was the weakest? Um, [00:19:00] for me, I think one of the, the biggest things is if you see somebody or know somebody that could potentially be similar to where Robin Williams was at. Pray and ask for God to show you how to reach them, um, and be willing to pursue it. Um, it's, no, no two depressions are the same because no two people are the same. There's no blanket there, a, b, c methodology that's going to, like, if I do these three or four things, I'm gonna pull my friend out of what they're at. Because there's different triggers, there's different experiences, there's different chemical imbalances in the mind. So don't ever feel like a failure if you try to help somebody and you can't see results. Because some people, it takes time, some people it takes the miracle of God flipping a switch and healing whatever chemical imbalance is in the mind. Um, so my advice is always just keep [00:20:00] pursuing, um, because. Eventually there's gonna be a breakthrough it because somebody that's in that mode is going to see that they're not gonna give up and that's going to fly directly in the face of so many of the inner voices or, or the self-talk of, I'm not worth it, nobody's gonna really care. Or I, I'm a burden. But when you're continually pursuing, you are speaking against all that and you're giving evidence against that case. And we all know, especially, uh, as Christians, that those voices are of the enemy. So they're all mm-hmm. Of the king of lies. Yes. And when you can step in and bring the truth and bring the light, the enemy has no footing left. So that's always my advice, is just to keep pursuing him. It's worth it. It's worth being able to pursue somebody and give them [00:21:00] a chance to hope and a chance to fight against the lies of the enemy. Um, I never know what to say to somebody that's struggling with depression. I'm always afraid that I'm gonna say the wrong thing. Right. Um, so those, those suggestions are really, valuable because. I don't wanna push them too far, but I want them to know that I care. So, yeah. And, and here's the thing, and this is something that I, whenever I talk to people, I, I try to take this burden off your shoulders. It's not your job to save them. It's not your job to rescue them. It's your job to be there and let God do the saving. It is not, it's not your job. So whatever words you say, whatever things you say, it's not gonna matter because it's not gonna be really remembered. The mistakes or, or the, the bad choice words or whatever you say that doesn't [00:22:00] work, quote unquote work, it's not gonna matter. What's gonna matter is that person that you're pursuing, that you're fighting for is gonna remember that you were there. They're gonna remember your presence, not so much your words. Now, there'll be some times where God will give you wisdom and they'll remember those words of wisdom, but for the most part, part, they're gonna remember that you were there. Just like when you go to a funeral and you talk to the people that are grieving, uh, whether it's the widow or the widower, or maybe it's, uh, the child that lost their parent, whatever the case may be. They don't remember the words that you said as you go in the line. They remember your face, they remember the, the calming touch on the shoulder, on the hands. They remember that you were there and it was, it is very much the same for somebody that's in the dark pit of, of depression. If you're there constantly showing them love, willing to let them have [00:23:00] what I call verbal diarrhea and just get whatever they're wrestling without. They're gonna remember that you were there and they're gonna remember that, and it's going be that evidence to say, Satan, shut up. Amen. You're not telling the truth. This person is here. They see me as valuable enough to fight through this. So you're lies of I'm not worthy. Nobody loves me, nobody will miss me. Those are lies straight from the pit of hell, and that's where you belong. That's right. Wow. No, that's, that's really helpful comparing it to, um, a funeral. 'cause, uh, I just lost my brother December 5th and, yeah, and some people, they don't know the right things to say and, but you're right. I remember that. They cared about me. But yes. The fact that they took time to say, I'm praying for you, or let us know if there's anything we can do to help you meant a lot. So I appreciate that [00:24:00] advice for sure. Let's switch over something a little funnier. Sure. Okay. Than a funeral. Um, so speaking of Robin Williams, he was a guest on. Whose line is it anyway, and it was my favorite episode ever. And you started a Christian version of that show. Tell me more about that. Absolutely. So when I, uh, rededicated my life to the Lord in January of 2013, I knew that performing and being on stage was my calling. God was going to. Keep me in front of people, keep me entertaining people, but he's changing and he changed the reason why, instead of trying to hide how I felt and hide myself, I was now gonna use comedy as a way to reveal who he is. And I had no real opportunities, uh, in Beckley, West Virginia. Nothing against West Virginia. Uh, [00:25:00] I have a lot of friends back there. I had a lot of great experiences, but it wasn't where God wanted me. And so I was like, so God, where do I go? Do I go to Roanoke, Virginia, which is about three hours west in, uh, west in, in west in Virginia. Excuse me. And, uh, that's where my mom lived. Do I just move in with her and start over? And it was kind of like. You could, but that's not really where you belong. So I kept, like reading Rick Warren's book, I kept reading the Bible and finally in a, in a conversation, my sister, who doesn't really have a relationship with the Lord, but he used her. She said, well, if you want to, you can move up here to Chicago in, in, uh, start over here. And I said, are you sure? 'cause she was going to college at the time and I would be moving in on staying on her couch in her studio apartment. And I was like, are you sure? She's like, yeah, if, if you need. A new, you know, new start. And so six weeks later I left, uh, [00:26:00] West Virginia, everything I could pack in my truck I brought up. And I started completely over in, um, in March of 2013. And it was shortly thereafter, I started pursuing acting opportunities and opportunities to be in front of people. A couple of mo short films I got into, I realized after accepting the part, I shouldn't have done this role. Uh, this will be something that if I ever become famous, will be one of those things that they play to, to tease you when you get like a lifetime achievement award. Oh, yeah. Um, and then through Craigslist I connected with a, a, a guy, um, named Ryan McChesney. And he and I, uh, discussed, you know, doing, uh, movies together or something like that, uh, faith-based, and we said, well, we both like improv. He had gone through the second 30. Second City, Chicago Conservatory. I had, um, done a few classes at Second City, but uh, most of my acting and performing training [00:27:00] came from eight years of, uh, pro wrestling in, uh, West Virginia and Virginia. Um, so we thought, well, what if we started a faith-based improv team? There's nothing like that in Chicago. And we thought that there was almost nothing like that in the rest of the world. So, uh, we decided to start trying to cast and we, uh, brought two more people on. And my church at that time was, uh, very, uh, gracious in allow, allowing us free reign to use a building for rehearsals or anything else we wanted to do. And so we just started, uh. Creating an improv team and for anybody that's not really familiar with improv, uh, uh, Diana, as you mentioned, uh, whose line is it anyway, is kind of the same kind of improv that we do where it's, uh, game base where they'll give us a game with a scenario and certain rules within that game to follow, and the rest we make up. We make up the characters. The dialogue is completely made up. And the idea is not to try to be funny, but just to [00:28:00] try to respond in the moment because that's where the funny's gonna come from, is that just that creative mind that we have. It's going to find things that are funny in our natural reactions. And so what we do is we just create scenarios. It's basically like. A more organized way to play, pretend. Uh, we create characters, voices, points of view. And so we, and we don't do it based on the Bible because we don't want to ever. Get careless and misrepresent the Bible or say something. Oh, okay. That's fair. Uh, we don't wanna ever come across as a Christian improv team that is, uh, disrespecting the Bible. So we just do clean comedy that's accessible for all ages, whether you're five or 105. Um, we want you to be able to come and enjoy and laugh. And, um, we kind of filter it through [00:29:00] Philippians four, eight, whatever's pure and lovely and praiseworthy. If it kind of fits along that, then, uh, then we're good. Um, and we just, um. We go out and use it as a ministry tool. Uh, either we open for a speaker and use laughter as a way to tear down some walls and, and make people comfortable enough that they can hear it. Mm-hmm. Or we just do pure comedy with the love and the joy of Christ and allow our presence and the fact that Christ is coming in with us to somehow reach them on a spiritual level to where they'll either ask us, why are you guys clean? Why don't you curse? Or Why don't you do innuendo or blue? Right. Or they track us down on social media and they're like, oh, they're Christian, and they're funny and they're creative. Maybe God is more than I thought he was. I'm not naturally funny. Um, my husband is, and that's the, the thing [00:30:00] is. You don't have to be funny to be good at improv, you just have to be willing to listen and respond naturally. 'cause most of what's funny in our improv at least, is that people recognize either weird quirks, uh, about themselves or about people that they know or they recognize weird characters that they're like, that's Samantha from work. Oh my gosh. Um, and, and it's that recognition of, of the human experience because. We are so much alike. There we're, we are all more alike than we are different. Mm-hmm. And when we share those experiences, we realize that we're not alone. That we're not this weird thing in the middle of the world that has no connection. When we get a room with people laughing together, even if none of them know each other. They connect, uh, on this really interesting level. When they laugh together, they don't feel alone in that room. And that's why comedy is so important and effective in [00:31:00] speaking and in ministry. If you can get, get them to laugh, there's a wall that comes down to where now they're able to receive, uh, some information or receive the word or receive the message. And, uh, you know, that's what we love to do is to either. Set the ground for, uh, the speaker to bring the word, or to just simply be a light in that room to where there's a question, why, why are they different? And, um, that's what we do now. Uh, we've been, uh, this team has been running since, uh, July of 2013. Um, we've had a lot of changes, a lot of turnover, but the, the mission has always been the same is to just use comedy to bring people closer to God. So you can, definitely use comedy to heal people in their pain. And you got connected with, salt and Light Coalition. So tell us more about that. Sure. Uh, Salton Lake Coalition [00:32:00] is an organization that works with, uh, women who have survived sex trafficking. Um, many of the women that they serve, uh, were sold into trafficking by their parents at a young age. So many of them either have a very short, if. Or maybe a non-existent childhood to, uh, draw from. So they're very stunted in ma many areas as far as emotions, uh, uh, especially the ability now to trust people. And so, and most of them obviously have been hurt. Used and abused by men. Mm-hmm. So the fact that me as a guy was asked to come in and serve the weight of that is not lost on me. But I also see absolutely see benefit because here is a man in a healthy relationship with his wife, who is in a healthy relationship with the Lord, who can come in and bring that. As a model for these women to show that it is possible that [00:33:00] not every single man is a creep that's going to hurt you. Right? So, and I, I value that ability to, and that opportunity to bring that example, uh, to them. And I teach improv as a way to improve their communication because, uh, many of them, like I said, had, are stunted either, um. Educationally, either they were, they had to drop outta school because they were doing what their handlers or pimp or whatever you wanna call 'em, were making them do. And so I go and help them improve communication. Uh. Find and develop their self-esteem. Because when you're learning improv and you're creating stuff together, you're starting to realize, wait, I have a voice. I have something to say, and the things that I say can be valuable, and that only helps to improve the self-esteem. So they start realizing that all the stuff that I've been through in the past is my past and all the work that I'm doing [00:34:00] now to get back on my feet and rebuild my life. I'm worth it because I have something to say. I have something to contribute. So we do that through improv and, and at the end of the day, they get an hour where they can laugh like kids either for the first time or laugh like kids again because. And, and it, I don't say these things to brag on me. Mm-hmm. God put me in this position. There was, there's been several times where the women have, or a couple of the women have come in and you could see that they are literally carrying their world on their back. The burdens are there, the brow was furrowed. The, you could see in their eyes that they're waiting for somebody to say that one word so that they can explode on them. Mm-hmm. And part of what they have to do is they have to participate even if they're not feeling it. So they, they still get in the circle, they still participate in the games, and you can see literally. The, [00:35:00] that facade, crack and fall, you literally see them crack up and within five minutes of participating, the burden is gone. The, the fierceness in their eyes, the the anger or the frustration, or the hurt. It fades away. And they get to forget that and realize that there's hope, that there's something bigger than what they're wrestling with in that moment. And that has been such a huge blessing for me to be a part of that for the last couple of years. And, um, and like I said, it's, it's such a blessing to, to be a man in that position, to kind of be an ambassador, literally an ambassador for Christ, to show that it's okay to. To trust again. And I, and I love doing that. That is incredible. You know, I've had some training in sex trafficking, with Mending the Soul We have a program called Princess Lost. [00:36:00] Princess Found. Oh, okay. And I didn't know anything about sex trafficking before that, or at least I thought I did know. Mm-hmm. I, I thought of what the rest of the world thinks about, you know, prostitutes or sex workers, but it really, that training had opened my eyes. Do you have a story of one of those tough nuts that crack open with your comedy improv class? Yeah. Um. Specific, I can't mention names, obviously. No. Yeah. But, uh, the one lady I think of in particular, she's a single mom. She was, uh, sold by her mom into trafficking, for sex because her mom needed a. She needed a, a fix. And so she gets involved and then she gets traded, bought, and sold. Um, and the thing wa the thing that a lot of people don't realize is [00:37:00] people who are in that life, who are stuck, who are, who are trapped, they're not always stuck in some shady building off in the corner of, of the city, right? They're, they're still out walking around, they're going to the store, but. They're in such a way that they don't think they can escape and they don't know who they can trust. Mm-hmm. They don't know if the person that they're gonna talk to to say, Hey, I need help, is connected to this person that they're, that they're, uh, enslaved by. So they feel like they can't trust anybody. Even though that they're out walking around, they're, they're stuck. And they're also, many times they're forced to take drugs. Yes. So people will dismiss them when they see 'em. Like, oh, she's just a junkie. There are a lot of junkies, but there's also a lot of women and, and some men that are on drugs, either because they're trying to cope with what they're being forced to do, or it's part of what they're required to do in [00:38:00] order to survive. Um, and, and the, the, the pimps know that when they're on drugs and they're high people will dismiss them and won't really give them two looks. So all that to say is this, this young lady, she's, I think she's in her mid twenties now. Mm-hmm. Uh, single mom struggling to get her kids back because in, in the eyes of the court system, she's just a junkie. She, it, it doesn't matter why she was on drugs, it doesn't matter what caused her to be arrested for these different things. All that matters to them is that she, you know, you were high, you were on drugs, you have this in your system, you're not fit to be a mom. So she's trying to rebuild her life, trying to get her kids back and one day, I don't know, I don't know the details 'cause I don't really talk to get to know them much, just because they're trying. You don't wanna protect them. 'cause the fewer people that know the stories, know where they are, where they're [00:39:00] from, the better for them so that they can avoid getting. Found by the people that are looking for them. Mm-hmm. Because when a woman, escapes sex trafficking, that's property in the minds of the people that quote unquote own them. Yes. And they don't like to lose property because they're losing profit. So. You know, I know very little about them. I know their, I know their first name. I know a little bit about their story. Some of their stories come out as, you know, part of the improv, but she's trying to get her life back together. She comes in and she's the one that I always envision when I talk about the cracking up. She came in and I swear, I I, there was a moment where I was worried, it was like, is she gonna fly off on me if I say the wrong thing? 'cause she just looked angry at the world. Mm-hmm. And, uh, fortunately, and obviously they're not gonna leave me in the room alone, so there's a couple of the Salton light [00:40:00] volunteers there just to supervise and to coach and say, Hey, you need to go ahead and get in a circle and, and participate. You know, this is part of the program. And so. She came in, arms are crossed and she's just looking down at the ground. And so I just changed my plan and I opened up with, uh, a warmup that I knew everyone enjoyed. Um, and it's a silly game. It's called Bippity bippity bop. And, and so this game, uh, somebody's in the middle of the circle, they go around the circle and it's, it's a quick response game. I'll look at you and, and if I say Bippity bty bop, you just have to say the word bop before I get to bop. And then there's other layers to that game. So I start the game and say, all right, so we're gonna warm up with bip bippity bop. So I go around the circle and there are a couple times where like, as I'm going around the circle, I look at her like, I'm gonna give her the, you know, [00:41:00] the, the, uh, interaction. But then I go past and then I come back, and then I get her the first time it's like pip bop. She, you know, obviously wasn't ready 'cause she's not. Fully into it. So she goes, all right, un crosses her arms, walks in the circle, starts doing it, and as soon as she starts participating you, that's when it starts cracking up. And she starts laughing and, and having fun. And she became, she was two people. The first five minutes, she was one person. And then once she started to laugh, she was a completely different person. And it's like. God, this is why, this is why I'm here. And again, it's not, Hey, Dave Ebert's wonderful. You know, toot the horns. It's like, God put me in this position to use my testimony, my story to, and my experiences to try to help in the healing process of, of some women that desperately need healing and desperately need to know the love of [00:42:00] Jesus. I love that story. You know, the biggest thing I learned in, in my training that I went through was a lot of these women are in this predicament. At no fault of their own, they were mm-hmm. They were groomed or they were kidnapped, or they were, you know, trafficked by somebody that they trusted. Mm-hmm. Or they should have been able to trust and that these, these ladies and some gentlemen, by the way, are people. Valuable people, loved by God. They're not trash and not somebody that we throw away or toss aside, they are, they are children of God and they need Jesus too. Yeah. And, and these are all people that, and I, I don't like think, or in my heart, I don't believe that Jesus means this. In his language, but he's talking to us in our language when he talks about the least of these. Mm-hmm. Because he loves us and [00:43:00] God loves us equally. And there is no true least in God's kingdom. But I think it's, it's Jesus dumbing down the language so that we would understand. And that's why he is like what you do to the least of these you do to me. So yeah, there are people who. Are out there who are high on their own accord, doing their own thing, that are just throwing their lives away because they think it's fun. But you don't know until you know. So don't, I would just ask, never dismiss somebody because they look like a junkie. Mm-hmm. Or they look like they've made some bad choices. 'cause maybe they have, or maybe they're stuck in a situation. And I would always encourage, if nothing else, pray for them. Mm-hmm. And maybe in that prayer time, God's like, Hey, that that's somebody that needs you. But if you're willing to just dismiss everybody 'cause they look like they're scarred from injections or they, their face is broken out from different [00:44:00] things, if you just dismiss 'em automatically, then you're blocking God from reaching you to tell you, hey, they need your help, and God's just gonna have to find somebody else. And you're gonna miss the blessed opportunity to reach somebody that needs the love of Christ. Amen. What are you up to now? You have any new projects in the works coming down the pike? When you said, what are you up to now? I was gonna say six foot two. Um, yeah. Right now, uh, because of, uh, the global thing that's going on and I'm in Illinois, so. Theaters aren't open. We're not doing much as far as the comedy. Um, you know, so everybody's kind of focusing on their family. One of the things I have been doing is connecting with other Christian improvisers and, uh, we're, uh, doing. Semi, uh, maybe once a month. Uh, comedy shows where we just get together and we've never practiced before. We've never rehearsed, but we're gonna [00:45:00] put out, uh, some shows where people can just watch online, watch us improvise and participate. Uh, those, uh, will broadcast live on my Facebook page, and I'll advertise those that you know about a week in advance once we get people able to commit to a date. Um. And the, our first one that we did, we had somebody from West Virginia, somebody from Arkansas, two people from Texas, and Oh, had one person, uh, from Ohio, I believe. So we had like a conglomerate of people from all over the, the nation coming in. Uh, we've never practiced before, but we did improv and. Improv and Christianity are so much alike because to do good improv and to be a good Christian, quote unquote good Christian, you need humility. You need to be willing to support the other person, and you need to be willing to love the other person so that they're successful. Um, so when you come into an improv stage as a Christian [00:46:00] improviser. I mean, you've got all the tools just built in. And so we go, we perform online, we're willing to support each other and it makes it really fun. Now, the way we do it, we don't have crowd, you know, reaction, but because we're together, we kind of know what's funny and we're like, okay, this is, you know, we can laugh at each other. And, uh, just really a lot of fun. It's nothing like the real improv of being on stage and no. Intimate experience, but it's a good substitute. It, it's a good gap filler until we can get past all of what's going on. Yeah. Saw your, your post on, Christian Creatives are on the same group. Yeah. And I'm gonna see if I can try and watch that. That'll be fun. This has been great. I, I so appreciate you coming on the show today and putting up with the, uh, the Zoom demons earlier, and I know you don't do this for, [00:47:00] reward or pat's on the back, but. From me to you, thank you so much for what you do for the Lord and what you do for these ladies, because you are changing people's lives and making a difference. So thank you very much. Thank you. So tell the folks how they can connect with you if they wanna know more information about your ministry. Sure. Well, I actually have three primary things that I'm involved with. GIF for Glory is the kind of the umbrella over everything. Uh, you can find us on Instagram, Twitter, Facebook at gifts, the number four, glory. And uh, that's where my podcast is. That's, uh, kind of the over um. Corp corporate umbrella over, um, my personal, uh, speaking in improv coaching where you can find me at, real Dave Ebert. Um, there's actually another comedian who's also from the Midwest, uh, not a Christian, [00:48:00] uh, who's, his name is, uh, Dave or David Ebert. So, uh, so I beat him to the punch and I took the real Dave Ebert. Oh, glad you mentioned that. Um, which is hilarious. 'cause on Twitter I'll often get tagged in things that. I have nothing to do with Christianity or ministry, and it's like kind of embarrassing. Totally. And so I'll respond and I'll be like, Hey, I think you meant this guy. Um, but uh, thanks so much for the shout out. You don't want the credit for some dirty joke. Right, right. Yeah. I mean, I, I. Unfortunately, before Christ really took over my life there, I did say quite a few dirty jokes, especially in wrestling locking rooms. Um, but uh, that's washed by the blood and forgiven and mm-hmm. Um, but yeah. Uh, so at real, Dave Ebert is how you can find me. And there is one thing I do like to, uh, share on any every interview. Is, um, if there's somebody out there that hears this podcast and you're [00:49:00] somebody that's wrestling with depression or considering suicide, uh, my email box is open to you, uh, 24 hours a day. Uh, it goes directly to my phone, and this is an email address. I'll always keep active. So if in 2035 somebody picks up this podcast, that email will be available barring rapture. Um. Yeah, and I say that tongue in cheek, but, uh, if you're somebody that's wrestling, I really want to hear from you and wanna walk you through it. Uh, my email address is Dave at gifts, the number four glory.com. dave@giftsforglory.com. And, uh, I'm not gonna preach at you. I'm not gonna just copy and paste a bunch of scripture. I just want to hear what your story is and I wanna walk with you through it. I know that. In my depression. For me, I feel like had somebody had that option where I could talk to somebody that didn't know me, that didn't have preconceived ideas, that I'm, I would've been willing to just open up. And I'm [00:50:00] hoping that, uh, even one person, if you need that and you just, and I refer to it earlier, that verbal diarrhea, just like, let let it pour out. Uh, my dad was a military man. I was in wrestling for eight years. There's not a curse word I haven't heard. So if you need to curse in your email, don't feel like, oh, he's a pastor. I gotta edit. No, don't worry about that. Just tell me what you're want. A safe person, uh, yeah, and I wanna be there and I want to help in any way I can. If it's just listening and reading your email and just sending a few words back, that's what I wanna do. So that's open for you for, and if you're somebody that knows somebody that's not able to ask for help, uh, you know, contact me and I'll be happy to, uh, to do what I can. That is so awesome. Thank you so much for, for being a resource for, for the listeners, and I hope those that are listening will take advantage of that opportunity. And I love your podcast. [00:51:00] I listen to your podcast every week and you have some great guests on there. And we seem to agree on a lot of, um, things that I won't mention. I don't talk about politics on the show, but yeah. We seem to be on the same page on a lot of things. So thanks again for, for coming on the show tonight. Thank you so much. You as well. And, uh, I hope that, uh, uh, DSW Ministries takes off in the new year and that, uh, you meet every goal that, you've, that you've set forth. God bless you, Dave. Now I'll put all of his information in the show notes for everybody. You are never a victim when you choose to take action. Remember that friends, so we will see you all next week. God bless. Thank you for listening to the Wounds of the Faithful Podcast. If this episode has been helpful to you, please [00:52:00] hit the subscribe button and tell a friend. You could connect with us at DSW Ministries dot org where you'll find our blog, along with our Facebook, Twitter, and our YouTube channel links. Hope to see you next week.

Rev. Ann-Henley Nicholson serves as Vice President of Enrollment Management and Vocational Outreach at Columbia Theological Seminary in Decatur, Georgia. Ann-Henley grew up worshipping in the pews at Sec­ond Presbyterian Church in Roanoke, Virginia. She didn't imagine then that she'd later ex­perience a call to ministry, yet God is always faithful and often full of surprises. After graduating from the University of Virginia, she pursued her passion for theatre in New York before heading to Princeton Seminary to follow her call to ministry. Upon graduating, she served First Presbyterian Church of Atlanta before returning to Princeton Seminary to become their Director of Alumni Relations. In her role at Columbia, she enjoys identifying the next generation of pastoral leaders and worshipping with communities like ours.

Damien Sordelett, Roanoke.com on VT hiring James Franklin by Ed Lane

Need a deep breath before the holidays hit full speed? We're popping in with a candid check-in on where we've been, why the pace felt overwhelming, and the simple choices that help you stay human when the calendar won't slow down. From daylight saving crankiness to “Maycember” madness, we unpack how to practice presence in a season built on hurry.We start with a heart reset: the honest prayer search me, O God and how admitting your mess can invite real peace. Then we get practical. We talk about scheduling slow nights on purpose—quiet puzzles, a book with soft music, coffee by the tree—so memory has time to form. We share what retail taught us about compassion and boundaries, how to love the person in front of you without losing yourself, and why breath prayers and tiny breaks can change an entire shift. We also move toward the ache many carry this time of year: grief, seasonal depression, anxiety, and loneliness. Sometimes the holiest gift is sitting under a blanket beside someone who can't talk yet. If your soul needs a refill, join us for our She Is Chosen women's conference at Parkway Church in Roanoke, VA Saturday, December 6th, 9 a.m.–noon. Bring a friend with the code FRIEND for buy one, get one free, and let community reset your pace for the month ahead. If this spoke to you, follow the show, share it with someone who needs a lift, and leave a review so more people can find their breath too.

Let's meet up at the Zaxby's in Roanoke after this! Check out our merch! ▶ https://pleasestopshopping.com/ Support the podcast on Patreon ▶ https://www.patreon.com/SirMeowMusic Join the PST Discord server! ▶ https://discord.gg/YNqTT65 Links:  @SirMeowShow  ▶ https://bsky.app/profile/sirmeow.gay  @BrendanielGaming  ▶ https://bsky.app/profile/brendaniel.bsky.social  @Badddladdd  ▶ https://bsky.app/profile/badlad.bsky.social Shina ▶ https://bsky.app/profile/happi-arts.bsky.social Corbin ▶ https://twitter.com/lobbymemez Podcast ▶ https://bsky.app/profile/pstpodcast.com Podcast also available on Spotify and iTunes! iTunes ▶ https://goo.gl/X1C3nG Spotify ▶ https://goo.gl/fdVg9V Art ▶ https://bsky.app/profile/b00rad.bsky.social Video Template ▶ https://bsky.app/profile/thehangingrabbit.bsky.social Chapters: 0:00 Intro 0:22 Do you know Call of Cthulhu RPG?!? 4:20 Asking Jeeves For Nipple 5:02 Roanoke Zaxby's 10:09 Marble Hornets Ending Explained 11:30 SPOILERS START - Inscryption 14:34 SPOILERS END - Inscryption 15:06 The Most Persecuted Minority (Gamers) 19:18 Engaged In Shenanigans 26:12 Krackertoan Slenderman 28:03 Taco Bell Drive-Thru Blues 34:56 Collect my pages, Page Piggy. 37:17 They're talking about Jellyroll again.... 42:32 Patreon Q&A 1:06:45 Outro + Credits Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

My guest this week is Beth Macy, the award-winning author of three New York Times bestselling books that examine rural communities left behind by corporate greed and political indifference.Beth's first book, “Factory Man”, explored the aftermath of globalization on rural communities and won a J. Anthony Lucas Prize. “Dopesick,” her investigation of the opioid crisis, won an LA Times Book Prize and was described as “a masterwork of narrative nonfiction” by the New York Times. (It was also made into a Peabody- and Emmy-award winning Hulu series starring Michael Keaton.)Her newest book, “Paper Girl,” has just been released and is a combination of memoir and reported analysis of the rural-urban divide told through the lenses of backward mobility, political polarization, and the decimation of local news. Beth lives in Roanoke, Virginia.We covered:- How politics divided her family, and the skills she used to write a book about it- How a Pell grant helped Beth out of poverty, into college, and ultimately into a career in journalism- Publishing her first book at age fifty- Why writing books is easier than writing for a newspaper- Her telltale signs for when she's stumbled on a good story- Getting through the big-city gatekeepers to tell stories of small towns- Why the collapse of local news and public education are playing such a huge role in making us so polarized- How policy changes shape our everyday reality- Using personal deadlines as an “anxiety-management tool”- How clustering tasks–such as reporting, interviewing, writing, and editing helps give structure to a long-term deadlineConnect with Beth on Bluesky and/or Instagram @bethmacy.For full show notes with links to everything we discuss, plus bonus photos!, visit katehanley.substack.com.Thank you for listening!And thanks to this week's sponsor, Aqua Tru. Visit aquatru.com and use code KATE to save 20% off a great countertop reverse osmosis water filter that I have been using and loving for years now. Comes with a 1-year warranty and a 30-day money back guarantee. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

They vanished. An entire English colony, gone without a trace — no bodies, no battle, no sign of struggle. Just one word carved into a post: CROATOAN. For more than four hundred years, the mystery of Roanoke has haunted history books and ghost stories alike. But what if we've been looking at it the wrong way? In this episode of Strange Places, we try to dig into the evidence that might finally explain what really happened. Lets see if we can finally put this mystery to bed and find out what happened to the colonists. Was it paranormal? Or something normal . . . hiding in plain sight?-----------------Head to the Strange Places home website, asylum817.com to keep up with all things Strange Places, as well as the host. Billie Dean Shoemate III is an author with over 40 novels published, a master-trained painter, and multi-instrumentalist musician with multiple albums released. To check out Billie's books, albums, paintings and other artistic ventures, head to asylum817.com. Official Strange Places merch is now available as well!-----------------This podcast can also be heard on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, iHeart Radio, Pandora, and wherever you get your Podcast listening experience.-----------------If you like what you hear and wish to donate to this podcast to help keep it going, visit:https://www.fiverr.com/s/WEY9lex-----------------Visit us on Patreon for ad free early access and exclusive content!!!patreon.com/asylum817Shout-out to our top tier patrons, Summer Rain Zen, DILLIGAF and Old School!-----------------This episode is brought to you by J. L. Sterling's World of Stories! LINK BELOW:https://open.spotify.com/show/3lGZT38I0SMKBg9BkmFkj1

Mac Shelton is the co-founder of Sweetbay Capital, a real estate private equity firm focused on value-add multifamily investments in Virginia and the Carolinas. With a background in private equity and mezzanine lending, Mac blends institutional financial experience with a data-driven approach to real estate. Since 2021, he and his team have built a portfolio of over 340 units, concentrating on under-the-radar markets like Roanoke, VA, where rent growth consistently outpaces new supply.     Make sure to download our free guide, 7 Questions Every Passive Investor Should Ask, here.     Key Takeaways Rent growth—not population growth—is the key driver of returns Markets with less outside capital often outperform due to better entry pricing and lower volatility Renovation premiums are often overestimated—test before scaling your plan Conservative exit underwriting should account for the next buyer's view, not just your own Transparency with investors builds trust and fuels long-term partnerships     Topics Why Sweetbay Focuses on Smaller Markets Smaller markets like Roanoke and Columbia are producing higher rent growth with lower acquisition costs Mac compares tertiary markets to places like Raleigh in the early 2000s—under the radar but primed for stable returns Oversupply in "hot" metros like Raleigh and Charlotte is driving rents down, while less popular markets remain steady Data Over Hype: What Drives Rent Growth Rent growth is more important than population growth and is driven by renter population relative to new supply Mac shares an analysis comparing Roanoke to Raleigh, Charlotte, and Greenville—showing similar or better rent performance with lower price per door Why Lease Trade-Outs and Renewals Matter Lease trade-outs measure organic rent growth, but renewals give even clearer insight into demand Renewals at 3–4% growth without renovations are often a better gauge than turnover metrics Exit Assumptions: Thinking Like the Next Buyer Every acquisition includes a re-underwrite from the future buyer's perspective Mac shares how he checks cap rate assumptions against current comps and validates price-per-door benchmarks Transitioning from Private Equity to Real Estate Mac started his career in private equity and gradually began acquiring rentals with his bonus income His first syndication scaled a student rental model he'd already executed personally Investor Communication and Building Trust Sweetbay Capital emphasizes detailed offering memorandums with full fee transparency and CapEx justifications Quarterly reports compare actuals vs original projections—no adjusted budgets or post-hoc explanations Advice for New Syndicators Don't start syndicating without doing your own deals first—prove the model with your money Sweetbay's first deal had no promote, just a 3% acquisition fee, to reduce friction and earn investor trust The best way to grow capital is to return it and reinvest with a strong track record    

If you're listening to Unspookable, chances are you like a good mystery. A mystery like, say, over 100 people vanishing without a trace? We're going to cover a mystery that's centuries old and ask whether a mystery so long past is even solveable as we discuss the Lost Colony of Roanoke on today's episode of Unspookable. Host: Elise Parisian Written by: Miden Wood Produced, Edited by: Nate DuFort Music Direction and Composition: Jesse Case Logo by: Natalie Khuen Episode Art: Alhafiz You can find Unspookable on TikTok, Twitter, and Instagram at: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.tiktok.com/@unspookablepodcast⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://twitter.com/ImUnspookable⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/unspookablepodcast/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Unspookable is a production of Soundsington Media, committed to making quality programming for young audiences and the young at heart. To find out more go to ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠http://www.soundsingtonmedia.com ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Looking for merch from Unspookable and your favorite Soundsington Media shows? Head on over to our ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Dashery store ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠for t-shirts, hoodies, mugs, stickers, hats and more. ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://soundsington-media.dashery.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Advertise on Unspookable: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠advertising@airwavemedia.com

Nick Jeffery and John Granger do a Compare and Contrast test of the latest Cormoran Strike novel, The Hallmarked Man, and the previous seven books in Rowling-Galbraith's longest series of novels. Adapting a list of ‘Greatest Hits' moments from the first ‘Reading, Writing, Rowling' podcast John did with Katie McDaniel and a panel of Potter Pundits in Roanoke, Virginia, Nick and John share their favorite moments first from the series and then from Strike 8 before contrasting the quality of these highlights.The point of the exercise? Besides being a fun review of Strike-Ellacott adventures, a Greatest Hits collection of their highs and lows, Agency cases and sub-contractors included, the absence of any Hallmarked Man moments that merit a ‘Best in Series' badge suggests that Strike 8 will be remembered best for how it set up Strikes 9 and 10.Whatever your thoughts about that thesis, please share the scenes on your Greatest Hits list, both for the series and Hallmarked Man, per the numbered categories below. Nick and John have a few more to run through that they couldn't get to on their first ‘go' at this; feel free to share categories they should discuss in addition to the ones listed here:* Top Pat Chauncey scene* The One Scene that You Remember Most Often or ‘That Changed Your Life'* Top ‘Text-within-a-Text'* Funniest Scene* Top ‘Drop the Book' moment* Best ‘Narrative misdirection/Ostrananie' Moment* Conclusion: Series and Hallmarked manJohn is working on his charting of Hallmarked Man for the paid subscriber list as well as reviewing and revising his 2017 online course, ‘Wizard Reading Formula.' More on those projects and the Kanreki Series in his next conversation with Nick; stay tuned!Links to Ideas, Posts, and Theories Mentioned* Talbot's ‘True Book' in Troubled Blood* Kathryn Kent's weblog post in The Silkworm* The Goldfish in the Agency Office* Running Grave and Hallmarked Man overlaps, and Ryan Murphy's involvement.* Three Take-Aways from Hallmarked Man: What We Know Readers will say in Ten Years about Strike 8 Get full access to Hogwarts Professor at hogwartsprofessor.substack.com/subscribe

In 1587, more than a hundred English settlers vanished without a trace from an isolated island off the coast of North Carolina. When their governor, John White, returned three years, the only clue was a single word carved into a post: CROATOAN.In this episode, we unravel the enduring mystery of the Lost Colony of Roanoke. We explore who these settlers were, what they endured, and what may have become of them. Be sure to Subscribe, Rate, & Review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and Audible!Support the show by becoming a sponsor on our Patreon: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠www.Patreon.com/NYMysteryMachine⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠NYMM Merch! ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠www.NYMysteryMachine.com⁠⁠⁠Have a strange and/or paranormal story?⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Share it here!⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Don't forget to follow us on all the socials:Instagram:⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@NYMysteryMachine⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ | TikTok:⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@NYMysteryMachine⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Bluesky:⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@nymysterymachine.bsky.social⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ | X:⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@NYMysteries⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ | Facebook:⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@NYMysteryMachine⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠--THANK YOU TO OUR SPONSORS:AUDIBLE: Get a FREE 30 Day Trial by heading to ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠www.AudibleTrial.com/NYMysteryMachine⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠HUNT A KILLER: Receive 20% off your first Hunt a Killer subscription box at www.HuntAKiller.com with the code NYMYSTERYMACHINE at checkout!RIVERSIDE.FM: Looking to record podcast, but need software? Head to ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://riverside.fm/?via=nymysterymachine⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

Nick Jeffery and John Granger do a Compare and Contrast test of the latest Cormoran Strike novel, The Hallmarked Man, and the previous seven books in Rowling-Galbraith's longest series of novels. Adapting a list of ‘Greatest Hits' moments from the first ‘Reading, Writing, Rowling' podcast John did with Katie McDaniel and a panel of Potter Pundits in Roanoke, Virginia, Nick and John share their favorite moments first from the series and then from Strike 8 before contrasting the quality of these highlights.The point of the exercise? Besides being a fun review of Strike-Ellacott adventures, a Greatest Hits collection of their highs and lows, Agency cases and sub-contractors included, the absence of any Hallmarked Man moments that merit a ‘Best in Series' badge suggests that Strike 8 will be remembered best for how it set up Strikes 9 and 10.Whatever your thoughts about that thesis, please share the scenes on your Greatest Hits list, both for the series and Hallmarked Man, per the numbered categories below. Nick and John have a few more to run through that they couldn't get to on their first ‘go' at this; feel free to share categories they should discuss in addition to the ones listed here:* Top Strike-Ellacott Moments* Ellacott taking care of wrecked Strike* Strike taking care of wrecked Ellacott* The Two having a frank conversation about the Agency, their vocation* The Two having a frank conversation about life and their relationship* Top Mystery Reveal* Top Agency Subcontractor moment* Top Agency case not the focus of the novel* Top Strike Confront-the-Killer moment,* Top “Magical” Moment (heart-rending/opening)* Top Moment-that-We-didn't-know-was-a-Moment-until-later* Top Saving People MomentJohn is working on his charting of Hallmarked Man for the paid subscriber list as well as reviewing and revising his 2017 online course, ‘Wizard Reading Formula.' More on those projects and the Kanreki Series in his next conversation with Nick; stay tuned!Links to Ideas, Posts, and Theories Mentioned* Roanoke ‘Reading, Writing, Rowling' Harry Potter Review[‘reading, Writing, Rowling's] first episode was recorded at CoLab in Roanoke, Virginia, at the May 2017 Roanoke Harry Potter Fest and celebrates 20 years of Harry Potter. Listen to a stellar crew of Hogwarts professors discuss [with hosts John Granger and Katy McDaniel] their favorite moments in the Harry Potter series, inspired by Bloomsbury Publishing's recent reader poll. Guests Louise Freeman, Elizabeth Baird Hardy, Emily Strand, and Lana Whited identify the best moments featuring the trio friendship, surprises and narrative misdirection, wizard magic, Snape, texts-within-the-text, and those inspirational messages that make the Harry Potter series profound and emotionally resonant to readers worldwide.* Rowling's Favorite Painting and What It Suggests about Her Artistry and Meaning: Caravaggio's ‘Supper at Emmaus'Professor Groves suggests strongly that what Rowling took away from her “mesmerised” “slow mining” of Caravaggio's Supper at Emmaus was the central Mystery of the Incarnation of Christ, the “guiler beguiled” idea of Aulen's Christus Victor. I find that argument compelling and want to build on it. There are embedded symbols in Supper at Emmaus that I think the fascinated Rowling would have noticed as she looked at the painting in the National Gallery, at the print on her wall in Exeter and London, and at the image on her first website, symbols beyond the “realism” of the Christ as imagined by Caravaggio and the revelation at the breaking of bread of His divinity.* Robin is Sterile Prediction: Chlamydia to Ectopic Pregnancy (December 2023)The thesis of this Hogwarts Professor essay — what I hope will be the subject of our second ‘Rowling Studies' podcast here — is that Robin Venetia Ellacott will not have children with Murphy, Strike, or any other partner, because she cannot, at least not without some extraordinary efforts via in vitro conception and surrogacy. I will attempt to explain how this infertility is possible, to detail the ‘Lake' suggestions from Rowling's life and personal experience that shows she is more than familiar with this condition among women, and to share the ‘Shed' literary markers in Running Grave and Rowling's other novels that this is indeed what she has in mind for Strike's partner Robin.Means Before Motive: How is it Possible that Robin is Sterile?In a word, “Chlamydia.”* The Hallmarked Man's Mythological Template ‘Cupid and Psyche's importance for grasping the depths of Strike 8, from the “necessity” of the Silver Vault and the three men in Robin's life, to spaghetti carbonara and ‘Maid of the Silver Sea' (links list to previous posts, 2021-present on this subject)* Charlotte Was Murdered, Mate; It Wasn't a Suicide* The Strange Death of Charlotte Campbell: Could the Psycho-Ex be the Focus of a Murder Investigation in Strike 8? (Nick Jeffery, November 2023)* Strike8: The Charlotte Campbell Murder Mystery: Nick Jeffery's Idea Checks a Lot of Boxes (John Granger, November 2023)* The Mysterious Death of Charlotte Campbell: Was It Suicide or Was It Murder? The ‘Rowling Studies' Pilot Episode (December 2023)* J. S. Maleksen's Re-read of Running Grave in Search of Ryan MurphyAfter reading HM twice, I re-read ‘Running Grave' with this theory in mind. It occurred to me that RFM might have read Charlotte's suicide note because it was in the police file. He might have even read through statements made by Charlotte's family members about Charlotte's relationship with Strike. At the very least, he would have read that Strike was in love with Robin and may have even bought into the ‘Strike was abusive to Charlotte' narrative and the ‘Strike has been in a romantic relationship with Robin since he broke up with Charlotte' narrative. This would explain why RFM is significantly more chippy towards Strike after Robin returns from Chapman Farm than he was at the beginning of ‘Running Grave.' Come to think of it, if Nick's theory is right and the suicide was a murder, it's quite possible that RFM may have been the lead investigator because, as we now know, he kinda sucks at his job. RFM would have had no reason to disclose any of this information to Robin because “she gets ratty every time he says anything against Strike.” Details identifying the investigating officer may not have been published. Alternatively, Iverson could have been the investigating officer and she could have shared this information with RFM and RFM can't tell Robin how he got the information because he had a fling with Iverson while Robin was at Chapman Farm.This might lead to an explanation as to why/how RFM fell off the wagon (guilt about having cheated on Robin and/or fear that Robin hasn't been honest about her relationship with Strike and/or his perception that Robin is being cowed by an abusive Strike)It makes sense to me that the period of time when Robin was at Chapman Farm is the most plausible and likely spot for JKR to have buried details about RFM, and his true character and motivations. The story as told from Robin and Strike's respective points of view intentionally distracted us from what RFM was up to during Robin's time at Chapman Farm. Indeed, he was often an afterthought of Robin's if she even thought about him at all.Incidentally, this makes the ‘RFM as gorilla man theory' more plausible because walking around with all of this information in his head could have motivated RFM to take extreme measures to get Robin to abandon Strike and the agency.I love your Substack and Podcast. Get full access to Hogwarts Professor at hogwartsprofessor.substack.com/subscribe

First,I want to thank you for your prayers for traveling mercies for my wife and Iyesterday as we left our home in Sneads Ferry NC around 3am to drive 6 hours upto Roanoke, Virginia for the ribbon cutting ceremony and the grand opening ofthe Go Center. Aroundnoon, we were got in the car to go to Charlottesville to visit my brother Mark atthe UVA Medical Center. We called to make sure it would be ok to visit him andwere pleasantly surprised to find out he was being discharged at that verymoment to go back home to Lynchburg. He has made an amazing recovery from hisbypass surgery. Todaywe want to look specifically at Ephesians 2:14-15, where it speaks of the factthat, “Jesus Christ Himself is our peace who has made both one and hasbroken down the middle wall of separation having abolished in His flesh theenmity that is the law of commandments contained in ordinances so as to createin Himself one new man from the two thus making peace.”  Myfirst big question as a brand-new Christian was how did people get saved beforethe cross? How did they get saved in the Old Testament? My friend over theyears I've concluded there's only one way of salvation. That is the way offaith. The way of faith through Christ Jesus. In the Old Testament, they lookforward to His sacrifice on the cross and now we look backwards, and by faith,both looks are taken. Everyone, both Jew and Gentile receive salvation becauseof Jesus and His sacrifice and blood shed on the cross. Verse15 reveals that the cause of the enmity was the law because the law had made adefinite distinction between Jew and Gentiles. The dietary laws reminded theJews that God had put a distance and difference between the clean and theunclean (Leviticus 11:44-47). But the Gentiles did not obey these laws.Therefore, they were unclean. Ezekiel the prophet reminded the priests thattheir task was to teach the Jews the difference between the holy and theprofane (Ezekiel 44:23). The divine ordinances given by God to Israel stood asa wall between the Jews and the other nations. In fact, there was a wall in theJewish temple separating the court of the Gentiles from the rest of the templeareas.  Archaeologistshave discovered this inscription from Herod's temple. It reads like this: “Noforeigner may enter within this barricade that surrounds the sanctuary andenclosure. Anyone who is caught doing so will himself be blamed for his ensuingdeath”. It was this wall that the Jews thought Paul and his gentile friendscrossed when the Jews attacked him in the temple and threatened to kill him inActs 21:28-31.  Inorder for Jews and Gentiles to be reconciled, this wall had to be destroyed,and this Jesus did on the cross. The cost of destroying the enmity was theblood of Christ. When He died, the veil in the temple was literally torn intwo, and the wall of separation (figuratively) was torn down. By fulfilling thedemands of the Law in His righteous life, and by bearing the curse of the Lawin His sacrificial death (Galatians 3:10-13), Jesus removed the legal barrierthat separated Jew from Gentile. For centuries, there was a difference betweenthem. But today, "there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek.For the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon Him. For whosoevershall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved" (Romans10:12-13). Ohmy friend, what a wonderful Savior we have. He is our peace. We are now onewith anyone. The new creation is the church, the body of Jesus Christ. We arepart of that new creation. “Old things have passed away. Behold, all thingshave become new”. Oh, what a wonderful thing it is to have peace with God,peace with one another, and be made one in Christ, and with any and everyonewho accepts Him as their personal Lord and Savior. Godbless!

Description: In this week's episode of America on the Road, host Jack Nerad and co-host Chris Teague test two of the most talked-about new vehicles of 2025. The Ford Maverick is a compact pickup redefining practicality, while the Mazda Mazda3 2.5 S Carbon Edition is a refined sedan with all-wheel-drive confidence and style. Our special guest is an expert on one of the most important vehicles to be released this year, the all-new 2026 Toyota RAV4.

Recorded live at The Roanoke on 07/31/2025.Follow the Dim Lights & Stiff Drinks podcast on Facebook (DLandSD), Twitter/X (@divebarsseattle), YouTube, and Instagram (seattle_dive_bar_podcast). Share, like, follow, smash, and subscribe!Check out the Dim Lights & Stiff Drinks podcast website (dimlightspodcast.com) for more details and additional episodes. And head over to our Patreon page (dim_lights_stiff_drinks) to help fund the shenanigans.Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/dim-lights-stiff-drinks. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Ialso wanted to remind you of the grand opening tomorrow of the GO Center therein Bonsack, Virginia, right outside Roanoke, Virginia at 9:30am. You're morethan welcome to attend this grand ribbon cutting ceremony opening up the GOCenter. You can read more about this in my Pastor's Chat. Again, thank you somuch for your prayers and being a part of this ministry with us at Pastor MikeImpact Ministries. Today,we are continuing to look at Ephesians 2. We've been talking about how Paulhere in verse 11 begins to address specifically the Gentiles in the church. Anamazing thing took place when of course the Gentiles began to get saved. BeforeActs 11, there was no conflict in the church at Jerusalem. The conflict, strifeand contention, appears in the church when the Gentiles started getting saved inActs chapter 10. This is when Peter went to speak to Cornelius the centurionand brought him to faith in Christ. It was then in Acts 11 we begin to see thisconflict between the Jewish believers concerning circumcision and the Gentiles.Of course, even at the church at Ephesus, because there are both Jewishbelievers and Gentile believers, this conflict possibly was continuing. No doubtthat is why here in Ephesians 2 Paul is writing about the greatest peacemission that has ever taken place on planet earth. That's the peace JesusChrist came to make between us and God, and to make between us and others. Especiallybetween other believers that we might be one. AsI was reading through these verses 11-22, the word one keptcoming up. I circled it. It is important to note that God came to make us onewith Himself through Christ and make us one with one another. Rememberthat was the prayer of Jesus in John 17. Now in Ephesians 2:11. Paul had remindsthe Gentiles that before their salvation, they were without God. They werewithout hope. They were without Christ. They were alienated and strangers tothe commonwealth of Israel, separated from the Jews. Verse13 begins with: “But now”.  This“But now” parallels the “But God” in verse 4, “Whois rich in mercy with His great love”. “But now in Christ,you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Jesus Christ.”He goes on to write. We're going to read through verse 18. “For HeHimself is our peace, who has made both one and has broken down themiddle wall of separation, having abolished in His flesh the enmity,that is the law of commandments contained in the ordinances, so as to create inHimself one new man from the two, thus making peace, and that Hemight reconcile them both to God in one body through the cross,thereby putting to death the enmity. He came and preached peace to youwho are far off and to those who were near. For through Him we both have accessby one Spirit to the Father.” Howpowerful is that? So, we see a key word here is enmity. The word enmitymeans a deep-seated hatred between people or groups. It's often long-lasting.We see this enmity going on in America today between the left and the right inpolitics and the hatred that the left has for our president. We see thisenmity. It's long-lasting. That there seems to be no reconciliation or peace.We see in this passage of scripture the enmity between the Jews and theGentiles, between sinners and God. But thank God we see that Jesus Christ hascome with the greatest peace mission in history, there is only reconciliationbetween Jews and Gentiles, between God and man through Jesus Christ.  Haveyou made peace with God through Jesus Christ? I trust that it will encourageyou to know only through Christ you can receive reconciliation (2 Corinthians 5:17-21). Godbless!

Time is running out as the monsters get more and more aggressive. With the diary in hand and the knowledge of how to end the horrors of this cursed night, the team must procure the final elements and rush to Sanctuary Rock if they ever want to see the end of this nightmare. Will they be able to enact the ritual necessary to cancel the themautergic totem? Or will the hellish horrors catch up, making the campgrounds their final resting place? Find out on the finale of Terror at Camp Roanoke! Join us for our annual 2025 Monster of the Week One-Shot as we enhance your Halloween season with a tale of fear and terror! A new episode will be released each week until the end of October, so be sure to tune back in so you don't miss the next chapter! Cast Martin Fresh Played By: Cameron Hoogendyk Grieve Gershwin Played By: Fatty Lumpkins Soapy Joe Played By: Connor Trett Richard Ancok Voiced By: Luke W. Shepherd | X/Twitter Eleanor Dare Voiced By: Carla Gyemi | Casting Call Club John White Voiced By: JBongo_VA | YouTube Sir Walter Raleigh Voiced By: Gareth Murden | Website Frederick Barneby Voiced By: Kurt B. Gray | X/Twitter | TikTok Camp Construction Worker Voiced By: Derek Marr | Bluesky | YouTube | TikTok | Instagram Camp Construction Foreman Voiced By: Michael Suggs | Website  Session Zero Heroes Social Media LinkTree - A Full List of Our Links Instagram - @SessionZeroHeroes Facebook - @SessionZeroHeroes Bluesky - @szhpodcast.bsky.social X- @Session0Heroes Credits Cover Art: Licensed through Adobe Stock Intro/Outro Music by: Justyna Kryscio Music & SFX by: Monument Studios Additional Music by: FreePD

Ice Bears President and CEO Mike Murray chats with John Wilkerson about the team's upcoming home game on Halloween and recent win at Roanoke.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Ice Bears President and CEO Mike Murray chats with John Wilkerson about the team's upcoming home game on Halloween and recent win at Roanoke.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Ice Bears President and CEO Mike Murray chats with John Wilkerson about the team's upcoming home game on Halloween and recent win at Roanoke.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Yesterday, I promised I'd give an update on my brotherMark and his triple bypass surgery at the UVA hospital in Charlottesville,Virginia. The surgery went extremely well, according to the report of thesurgeon to his family after he came out of surgery. But last night we heardthat Mark was in excruciating pain from the surgery.  Also, we were told that Mark will be inintensive care for at about five to seven days. You can continue to pray forhim. Pray for his wife Renee as sheministers to him and his family during this time and as he recovers andrecuperates from this surgery. Yesterdaywe also mentioned the ribbon cutting ceremony for the Go Center that's going totake place in the Bonsack, Roanoke area of Virginia this Saturday morning, November1st, at 9:30am. Again, if you live in that area, we invite you tocome. If you don't live in that area, I want you to pray for the Go Center. Iremember when I became a believer, I felt the Lord was calling me to missionsand that He wanted me to go overseas. I surrendered my life to ministry under amissionary thinking that that's exactly what was going to happen. But the Lordhad other plans and led me to stay in America as a pastor. Yet at the same time,the Lord gave me a tremendous burden to do all I could to facilitate missions,to encourage people to pray, to give, and to go.  Overthe last 50 some years in ministry, we've watched God do amazing things. One ofthose things is that my heart has been moved and blessed by the fact that my familyis very involved in missions. And especially my son Jonathan who is the head ofGlobal Partners in Peace and Development. The Go Center Out was born out of thishumanitarian organization by the great passion Jonathan's and his wife Heidi hasfor missions and the unreached peoples of the world. This is the central themeof Go Center.  Ilove what others are already saying about the Go Center. The mission's directorof the Parkway Church on the Mountain wrote after visiting it: "The GoCenter has the potential to spark the fire for a movement of young people toengage in a great commission. This incredible unique discovery experience willenable families to actively participate in learning about God's plan for thenations and the unreached people groups of the world. You'll leave the GoCenter in awe that you just made your way across the globe without setting afoot on an airplane."  JeremiahHambrick, the lead pastor of Bedrock Church Roanoke, wrote this: "I've hadthe unique privilege of witnessing the transformation of the Go Center from arundown church building into a place full of purpose and potential. It's morethan just a building. It's a launching pad for global mission right in theheart of the Roanoke Valley. The Go Center isn't just a place to visit. It's anexperience that draws you into the story of God's heart for the nations, takingyou on a journey to the world's unreached people groups and inviting you toplay a part in His global mission.” Again,I want to invite you to come this Saturday for the grand opening starting with theribbon cutting ceremony at 9:30. If you can't attend this Saturday, at a laterdate bring your family and a group of young people. Help let them see whatmissions and really what the heart of God is all about. That's been my heartfor over 50 some years and I'm so blessed to see it now just blossom into thisgreat Go Center to continue to facilitate and to excite people about doing whatGod has called us all to do. That is to go into the world and make disciples ofall the nations. All the nations, even those who've never heard of Jesus, needthe opportunity to hear. Ireally want to encourage you to help us with the Go Center. Even if you don't liveclose by you can pray and you can give. And if you live close you can participate by volunteering. You can visitthe Go Center website at: https://www.gpartners.org/gocenterto learn more about all these opportunities.

I'm so thankful for your prayers these past couple weeks while we'vebeen on tour in Jordan and in Egypt. It was a wonderful, wonderful tour. Everyoneon it was tremendously blessed. We met new friends. We built new relationships.We saw some exciting things that reminded us that our God is God. He is the Godof all the earth. He is the God of all the nations. Despite the fact there's somuch division, strife, hurt, pain in the Middle East, I'm telling you, God isat work there in a marvelous way in the lives of so many people. People arelooking for peace. Peace, even there in all the areas of these countries. We'reso thankful for your prayers during this trip. We're glad to be back. Also,I want to announce, if you live in the Roanoke or Lynchburg area of Virginia,we'd love to invite you to come to the GO Center this coming Saturday. Therewill be a ribbon breaking ceremony for the Grand Opening at 9:30. The GO Centerwill be open to help encourage people to go into all the world with the gospelof Jesus Christ. To go in prayer, to go on mission trips, to go with theirgiving. This facility was designed to get an experience of being on the missionfield right there in Bonsack Virginia at the GO Center. You can look up moreinformation at the www.gpartners.orgwebsite. I trust that you will plan on coming. That is this Saturday, November1st at the GO Center. I think it's going to be a great way that people aregoing to be touched to be on mission with God and for getting a new view ofwhat missions is really all about. That's what the GO Center is about, toencourage, also enlighten people about missions. That's really what the Bibleis about. It's about the heart of God who loves the world and how He preparedin eternity past a plan to bring redemption and reconciliation to every person. That'swhat Paul is talking about here in Ephesians 2:10-22 that we are presentlylooking at. We see that this chapter is telling us that God is on a great peacemission to reconcile the world to Himself through Jesus Christ. I love theseverses. We've already gone down through verse 10 talking about how we can besaved by grace. We who were dead in sins now can be made alive in Christ Jesus.We have been redeemed. We've been forgiven. We find that all through the bloodof the Lord Jesus Christ.  Inverses 11-13, Paul writes to the Gentiles in the Church at Ephesus, "Thereforeremember that you once Gentiles in the flesh." Remember he's writing tothe church at Ephesus who mainly were made up of Gentiles, non-Jews, who arecalled uncircumcision by that which is called the circumcision, made in theflesh by hands. That at that time you were without Christ, being aliens fromthe commonwealth of Israel, strangers from the covenants of promise, having nohope, without God in the world. But now in Christ Jesus, you who were once faroff have been brought near by the blood of Christ.” Actually,in these next verses through verse 22 at the end of the chapter, we see thatthree words summarize what this chapter is about: Separation, reconciliationand unification. The Gentiles were separated from God. They were separated fromthe covenant. They were separated from Christ. They were separated fromcitizenship in the holy nation. They were separated, without hope, without God.That's the condition of every sinner, both Jew and Gentile. This includes everyonethat has never accepted Christ as their personal Lord and Savior. We'reseparated from Him. My friend, only God can reconcile us to Himself through Hisson Jesus Christ.  Again,thank you for your prayers and tomorrow we will update you on my brother. Godbless!

At one time is was the grandest of hotels in the state of Virginia.  But the wheels of time eventually forced her shutdown and all...

The final monster rears its ugly head as the Gatorsaurus, an alligator-like goliath attempting to eat Onyx straight out of the island lighthouse. The team races to save her, but what can they possibly do against a leviathan such as this? Perhaps Grieve's expertise in animalia will come in handy? Will they soothe the savage beast? Or will the murderous maw of the massive monster be their end? Find out in this episode of Terror at Camp Roanoke! Join us for our annual 2025 Monster of the Week One-Shot as we enhance your Halloween season with a tale of fear and terror! A new episode will be released each week until the end of October, so be sure to tune back in so you don't miss the next chapter! Cast Martin Fresh Played By: Cameron Hoogendyk Grieve Gershwin Played By: Fatty Lumpkins Soapy Joe Played By: Connor Trett Richard Ancok Voiced By: Luke W. Shepherd | X/Twitter Eleanor Dare Voiced By: Carla Gyemi | Casting Call Club John White Voiced By: JBongo_VA | YouTube Sir Walter Raleigh Voiced By: Gareth Murden | Website Frederick Barneby Voiced By: Kurt B. Gray | X/Twitter | TikTok Camp Construction Worker Voiced By: Derek Marr | Bluesky | YouTube | TikTok | Instagram Camp Construction Foreman Voiced By: Michael Suggs | Website  Session Zero Heroes Social Media LinkTree - A Full List of Our Links Instagram - @SessionZeroHeroes Facebook - @SessionZeroHeroes Bluesky - @szhpodcast.bsky.social X- @Session0Heroes Credits Cover Art: Licensed through Adobe Stock Intro/Outro Music by: Justyna Kryscio Music & SFX by: Monument Studios Additional Music by: FreePD

In this episode of the DC Beer Show, the hosts engage in a lively discussion about various craft beers, focusing on the unique offerings from Blindhouse Beer Company in Roanoke. Tyler Wert, the brewer, shares insights into the mixed-culture fermentation process, the importance of balancing acidity in beer, and the challenges of maintaining flavor consistency across batches. The conversation also touches on the growing beer tourism in Roanoke, the influence of Virginia's wine industry on craft brewing, and the community's response to innovative beer styles. Overall, the episode highlights the vibrant craft beer culture and the dedication of brewers to create exceptional flavors while educating consumers. Thanks to our monthly supporters Steve Murray Scialdo Brian Matthew Green Jeff Lucas Micaela Carrazco Lauren Sean Moffitt Anthony Scipione johnna infanti Catherine Ramirez Kristin Adam Frank Steven Lynch Jared Prager Jeff Michael O'Connor Favio Garcia Josh Juan Deliz Mike Lastort James Wisnieski Brian Minch Chris Frome Sam Chip Tory Roberts Chris DeLoose Lauren Cary Clifton B Scott Pavlica Greg Antrim jeffrey garrison Joshua Learn Alexis Smith Dan Goldbeck Anthony Budny Greg Parnas Frank Chang Mikahl Tolton Kim Klyberg Chris Girardot Alyssa jeffrey katz Andrew MacWilliams Jamie Jackson Meegan Mike Rucki Jason Tucker Nick Gardner Amber Farris Sarah Ray Peter Jones Blue2026 Brad Stengel Bill and Karen Butcher Jordan Harvey Stephen Claeys Julie Verratti DFA Howie Kendrick

Ice Bears President and CEO Mike Murray chats with John Wilkerson about the team's upcoming home opener against rival Roanoke on Friday night.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Ice Bears President and CEO Mike Murray chats with John Wilkerson about the team's upcoming home opener against rival Roanoke on Friday night.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Matthew Ellison and Ted Esler welcome guests Megan Gahima (Missions Director, Parkway Church on the Mountain, Roanoke, VA) and Joel Wagner (Senior Pastor, Colonial Baptist Church, Blue Ridge, VA). Megan and Joel recount how a cross-denominational coalition of Roanoke-area churches formed and started partnering to bring Scripture to a Bible-less people in Southeast Asia.The conversation traces the coalition's formation where unity became the defining “current of the Holy Spirit,” overcoming long-standing denominational barriers. Practical steps included monthly prayer, a memorandum of understanding, research on translation partners, and a collective discernment period before identifying the Baker people and launching joint prayer initiatives like a citywide prayer summit. The video of the "Roanoke Current" which Matthew references: https://youtu.be/JIPoJk_5lS0The Mission Matters Podcast is a place to talk about the importance of our Mission as Christians. The Mission Matters is a partnership of Missio Nexus and Sixteen:Fifteen, who have a shared passion to mobilize God's people to be a part of His mission.

This week on the Lectures in History podcast: The mystery of the Roanoke Colony's disappearance. In 1587, English settlers established a colony on Roanoke Island, off the coast of present-day North Carolina — only to vanish without a trace soon after. Gettysburg College Professor Timothy Shannon explores what we know about the lost colony, the people who lived there, and the theories behind one of early America's greatest mysteries. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

We jet (metaphorically) over to Roanoke Inn Tavern, Mercer Island's oldest drinking establishment. The crew experiences a dive bar first: blabbing on about the history of this vaulted tavern without any drinks in front of us! Imagine the horror when we realize our highly-anticipated Round Two is actually just round one. At least we get to recount the days when the Roanoke was really an inn, along with all the questionable "etcetera" activity that took place. Recorded live at Roanoke Inn Tavern on 06/19/2025. Follow the Dim Lights & Stiff Drinks podcast on Facebook (DLandSD), Twitter (@divebarsseattle), YouTube, and Instagram (seattle_dive_bar_podcast). Share, like, follow, smash, and subscribe! Check out the Dim Lights & Stiff Drinks podcast website (dimlightspodcast.com) for more details and additional episodes. And head over to our Patreon page (dim_lights_stiff_drinks) to help fund the shenanigans. Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/dim-lights-stiff-drinks. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

In hopes of restoring power to the campgrounds, the team has ventured into the woods to discover that the Scrungus isn't the only horror haunting the habitat. Bigfoot has revealed himself as a new player in the game, and he's out for blood! Will the team of cowardly campers be able to restart the generator? Or will Bigfoot usher them to their final destination? Find out in this episode of Terror at Camp Roanoke! Join us for our annual 2025 Monster of the Week One-Shot as we enhance your Halloween season with a tale of fear and terror! A new episode will be released each week until the end of October, so be sure to tune back in so you don't miss the next chapter! Cast Martin Fresh Played By: Cameron Hoogendyk Grieve Gershwin Played By: Fatty Lumpkins Soapy Joe Played By: Connor Trett Richard Ancok Voiced By: Luke W. Shepherd | X/Twitter Eleanor Dare Voiced By: Carla Gyemi | Casting Call Club John White Voiced By: JBongo_VA | YouTube Sir Walter Raleigh Voiced By: Gareth Murden | Website Frederick Barneby Voiced By: Kurt B. Gray | X/Twitter | TikTok Camp Construction Worker Voiced By: Derek Marr | Bluesky | YouTube | TikTok | Instagram Camp Construction Foreman Voiced By: Michael Suggs | Website  Session Zero Heroes Social Media LinkTree - A Full List of Our Links Instagram - @SessionZeroHeroes Facebook - @SessionZeroHeroes Bluesky - @szhpodcast.bsky.social X- @Session0Heroes Credits Cover Art: Licensed through Adobe Stock Intro/Outro Music by: Justyna Kryscio Music & SFX by: Monument Studios Additional Music by: FreePD

ABOUT THE EPISODE Our next episode is a breakdown of the next D3 vs D2 match-up at the NWCA All Star Classic on November 1st, Mark Samuel of Roanoke is the D3 Representative in 2025. Samuel is taking on D2 National Finalist Khyvon Grace - West Liberty. We also talk about some other D3 headlines heading into the 2025-26 season.Twitter - @D3NationPodcastABOUT THE PODCAST Hosted by Anthony and Gennaro Bonaventura, former DIII wrestlers at Waynesburg University, current DIII Head Coach at Stevens Institute of Technology & DII Head Coach at Fairmont State University. The D3 Nation podcast mission is to provide DIII wrestling news and updates throughout the year. We also look forward to delivering episodes featuring DIII coaches and wrestlers as special guests to share their stories. We are both passionate about DIII wrestling and want to use this platform to keep the wrestling community educated on what is happening in DIII plus raise awareness of the amazing stories in DIII Wrestling.

I'm thrilled to announce our first Appalachian Vibes Radio Show LIVE episode! Recorded and filmed October 4, 2025 at 3rd Street Coffee in Roanoke, Virginia, this episode of Appalachian Vibes Radio Show features dark tales and murder ballads on MURDER in the MOUNTAINS! Amelia Empson opened the evening with her mellifluous voice, delivering traditional murder ballads and songs that reflected her kinship with nature. Adria Accomando, author of Violets Grey, followed with her story The Sighting—a personal account of UFO spacecrafts visiting her hometown as a child. Closing the night, Elsa Howell performed both traditional and original Appalachian murder ballads, blending haunting storytelling with powerful, original songwriting.Learn more about Amelia Empson: https://www.ameliaempson.com/Learn more about Adria Accomando: https://www.amazon.com/stores/author/B0CHPYGSBZ/allbooks?ccs_id=dbb2c36b-c821-4430-99e6-264ebb548c1bLearn more about Elsa Howell: https://elsahowell.com/Appalachian Vibes Radio Show from WNCW is listener nominated, you can nominate an artist by emailing Amanda at appalachianvibes@gmail.com. Appalachian Vibes Radio Show is created and produced by Amanda Bocchi, a neo soul singer-songwriter, multi instrumentalist and journalist hailing from the Appalachian Mountains of Virginia.

The campers are interrupted by the horrible Scrungus, a monstrosity of Martin Fresh's creation resembling an oozing bearlike horror. As the group flees, spreading itself across the campgrounds, the monstrous mutation follows in pursuit. Will the team be able to escape this colossal critter, or will its savage strike be their end? Find out on this episode of Terror at Camp Roanoke! Join us for our annual 2025 Monster of the Week One-Shot as we enhance your Halloween season with a tale of fear and terror! A new episode will be released each week until the end of October, so be sure to tune back in so you don't miss the next chapter! Cast Martin Fresh Played By: Cameron Hoogendyk Grieve Gershwin Played By: Fatty Lumpkins Soapy Joe Played By: Connor Trett Richard Ancok Voiced By: Luke W. Shepherd | X/Twitter Eleanor Dare Voiced By: Carla Gyemi | Casting Call Club John White Voiced By: JBongo_VA | YouTube Sir Walter Raleigh Voiced By: Gareth Murden | Website Frederick Barneby Voiced By: Kurt B. Gray | X/Twitter | TikTok Camp Construction Worker Voiced By: Derek Marr | Bluesky | YouTube | TikTok | Instagram Camp Construction Foreman Voiced By: Michael Suggs | Website  Session Zero Heroes Social Media LinkTree - A Full List of Our Links Instagram - @SessionZeroHeroes Facebook - @SessionZeroHeroes Bluesky - @szhpodcast.bsky.social X- @Session0Heroes Credits Cover Art: Licensed through Adobe Stock Intro/Outro Music by: Justyna Kryscio Music & SFX by: Monument Studios Additional Music by: FreePD

Psalm 119:67, which says, “Before I was afflicted I went astray, but now I keep your word.”   *Transcription Below*   Doug Rumbold is a child of the living God, a loving husband to Jessica, and father to Jada, Oliver, and Pierce. Currently he is the Pastor of Counseling & Discipleship at Northfield Christian Fellowship where he has pastored since 2006. He desires for others to be transformed into Christlikeness through authentic relationships. He holds a biblical counseling certificate from CCEF, a Bachelor's in Youth Ministry/ Adolescent Studies, and a Master's of Ministry in Theology.   Connect with Doug on Instagram, Facebook, or schedule a counseling session through his website or order Doug's Book.   Presence over Pain Podcast When did you experienced your first major loss? What are the three types of suffering you see laid out in the Bible? Will you share one of your conversations with the Lord where He responded with alliteration?   Thank You to Our Sponsors: Chick-fil-A East Peoria and The Savvy Sauce Charities (and donate online here)   Connect with The Savvy Sauce on Facebook or Instagram or Our Website   Gospel Scripture: (all NIV)   Romans 3:23 “for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,”   Romans 3:24 “and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.”   Romans 3:25 (a) “God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood.”   Hebrews 9:22 (b) “without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.”   Romans 5:8 “But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.”   Romans 5:11 “Not only is this so, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.”   John 3:16 “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.”   Romans 10:9 “That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.”   Luke 15:10 says “In the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents.”   Romans 8:1 “Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus”   Ephesians 1:13–14 “And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God's possession- to the praise of his glory.”   Ephesians 1:15–23 “For this reason, ever since I heard about your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love for all the saints, I have not stopped giving thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers. I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the spirit of wisdom and revelation, so that you may know him better. I pray also that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened in order that you may know the hope to which he has called you, the riches of his glorious inheritance in the saints, and his incomparably great power for us who believe. That power is like the working of his mighty strength, which he exerted in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms, far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every title that can be given, not only in the present age but also in the one to come. And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church, which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way.”   Ephesians 2:8–10 “For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith – and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God – not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God‘s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.“   Ephesians 2:13 “But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ.“   Philippians 1:6 “being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.”   *Transcription*   Music: (0:00 – 0:09)   Laura Dugger: (0:09 - 1:38) Welcome to The Savvy Sauce, where we have practical chats for intentional living. I'm your host, Laura Dugger, and I'm so glad you're here.    I want to say a huge thank you to today's sponsors for this episode, Chick-fil-A East Peoria, and Savvy Sauce Charities.   Are you interested in a free college education for you or someone you know? Stay tuned for details coming later in this episode from today's sponsor, Chick-fil-A, East Peoria. You can also visit their website today at https://www.chick-fil-a.com/locations/il/east-peoria.    Doug Rumbold is my guest today. He is a pastor of counseling and discipleship, and he has recently written a book entitled Presence Over Pain. With Doug's biblical foundation and his sense of humor, he's now going to share some personal stories of suffering and God's continued faithfulness.   He illustrates how a yearness of God is oftentimes born through trial. So, regardless of what each of us are walking through today, Doug's going to remind us that we have the opportunity to turn toward Christ. Here's our chat.   Welcome to The Savvy Sauce, Doug.   Doug Rumbold: (1:39 - 1:42) It's exciting to be here, even virtually.   Laura Dugger: (1:42 - 2:02) Well, and its always kind of special to have a local friend join me as a guest on the podcast. But for those who don't know you yet, I think it would be really helpful to hear your story and gain some context around what led you to write this book. So, will you just begin by sharing your story with us?   Doug Rumbold: (2:03 - 6:09) Yeah, I love stories in general. I think when I look at Scripture, three-quarters of it, roughly, is a narrative. It's a story.   And so, God's heart for story is just critical, even in His communication of truth and His love for us. So, it means everybody's story matters. So, my little story matters.   And I think mine's an interesting one. To begin with, I was born and raised in Morton, Illinois. And I was born the seventh of eight children.   So, my parent's kind of did this, like, unbelievable quantity of births in a short amount of time. I'm not a woman, so I don't understand how this works. But I assume that having eight children in 10 years is crazy.   And they somehow managed to do that. So, I grew up in a loving Christian home. My dad was a phenomenal example of intention and direct when it came to conflict, merciful and forgiving when it needed to be called upon.   My mom was and still is somebody who she could have a conversation with anyone. I love my mom, her ability to just dive deep into conversation. I remember my college years.   My friends from college would actually love to come home to be with my parents, which is kind of odd. A bunch of college guys like, “Hey, can we come back from the big city of Chicago and go hang with your parents in the farm town?” Sure.   Yeah, enjoy. So, I grew up seventh of eight. My oldest sister passed away before I was born at the age of four.   She was actually buried on her fourth birthday, sadly. She passed away from leukemia. And then my youngest brother passed away my freshman year of college, which I talk about in the book a little bit.   So, for all of my growing up years, there were seven of us, not eight. And then the family just kind of continued to expand. Everybody eventually got married and had children.   And now on my side of the family, there's 35 grandkids. So, those are like pre-Medicaid type family backgrounds. You know, like you get together and everybody's going to take a Tylenol before because it's gonna be nice and loud and crazy.   But I would say from just a believing perspective at eight years old, I remember being in the basement of my church in Morton. My Sunday school teacher just giving a really compelling description, not just of how like, oh, you're going to burn, but more of a what does it look like to be separated from God for eternity? What might that be like?   And I was terrified but also had enough of these people pleasing mentality that I also didn't want to be the person who asked another question and held the class up. So, later on, I found out that it was easier for me to have that conversation. I think my mom discovered me kind of in tears, maybe even later that day.   And it was like, I don't think I know Jesus. And she's like, well, we can like, let's have a conversation. What's that look like?   And let's pray together. And so, at eight was when that became a reality in my life. And then really at 15 years old, coming home from a mission trip to Mexico, I ended up having just an awesome experience there and got baptized by a minister from our church.   His name was Dwayne. He was awesome. And then as I think through just, I mean, I mentioned it already, our family is really well acquainted with loss.   My oldest sister, my youngest brother, and then just some of our ongoing journey. My wife has an ongoing illness that requires a lot. It is a challenge for sure for her.   And then I think all of that kind of balls up together to frame a lot of where the content from my book comes from. Just living a life of non-ease has really kind of brought me to this place of if it's not going to go away or if it hasn't been taken away, what is it that sustains and how do I move through it and past it?   Laura Dugger: (6:09 - 6:32) And I definitely want to hear more elements of the book. But first, I'm just thinking through this. You said seven of eight and your youngest brother and you all are close in age.   So, to bring us into your story further, what age were you when you suffered that major loss of your brother and how did he pass away?   Doug Rumbold: (6:32 - 9:06) Yeah, that's a great question. So, my parents had all of us in 10 years. So, in 1969, they were married.   1970 is when they started cranking out children. And then 1980 was when my brother after me was born. And then it was 1997.   So, it's actually Halloween night of 1997. So, I was a freshman in college. I just moved away.   This was before cell phones. It's almost hard to imagine. But I was lying in my bed at night.   And my brother, my other brother, Ed, was at college with me as well as my sister, Jennifer, in the West suburbs in Elgin. And my brother tried to contact me because Ben had been in a car accident. So, he had been taking a walk with this girl he was getting to know.   And we live out in the country in Morton. So, you'll recognize these road names just because we're local. But if you know Tennessee, Tennessee and Harding, there's that intersection.   And my family grew up on Harding. But going down Tennessee Avenue, going north, a gentleman who actually ended up being our neighbor was coming over top of the hill. And he was changing a cassette tape, also a relic of the past.   And he was changing the cassette tape. And my brother was walking on the side of the road with traffic. So, his back was to oncoming traffic.   And the car struck him from behind. And he was essentially and effectively dead at the scene, but kind of for the benefit. And I will talk about this in the book a little bit.   The benefit of us, my other two siblings and I in Chicago, they, you know, rushed him straight to the hospital and then put him on life support. But he never had brain activity or anything from the moment that he arrived at the hospital till the following morning. We were asked, you know, how we wanted to continue.   And probably in the hardest decision that I've watched my dad make was to pull the power cord on life support. I mean, my dad was all about responsibility and he wasn't going to let somebody else do that. And my dad was also very quick in his ability to make a decision, even if the decision was hard.   And so, he just knew this was not, you know, technically Ben could have survived on life support. But he would have none of the vitality that he had had his entire 17 years prior. And so, that just was not an option.   Laura Dugger: (9:07 - 9:29) Goodness, Doug, I can't imagine that's one of those decisions you hope to never have to make as a parent. And then with your family grieving this sudden loss and then also working through forgiveness of a neighbor. What did that look like?   Doug Rumbold: (9:30 - 14:14) That's actually one of the most redeeming. I mean, again, God does this where he just kind of the Genesis 50 moment where it's like what the devil intended for harm. God meant for good.   And I remember his name was Mark. He's since passed. It happened in 97.   And I remember him coming to the door, you know, how people come to your house, and they provide condolences after a loss. And so, Ben was well known at high school. He worked with special needs children and was in the performing arts.   And so, he was just really well liked. And so, there was a high school kid. So, there's a steady stream of people coming, grieving kids, all that.   And I remember coming back from college and I remember not saying, I literally did not say a word for three days. My way of processing then was very inward. And so, I just remember being very silent.   I should correct myself. I didn't say a word other than what I'm about to tell you. Mark came to the house and Mark was in his mid-40s at the time.   And he was crushed. I mean, can you imagine what that would be like? And so, he shows up at the house.   And as he's coming up to the door, I remember my dad saying he pulls all of us kids aside. He says, “I want to tell you something. Mark is here.   He's coming up to the door. And right now, you have a choice. Forgiveness is never about how you feel.   It's about obedience. If you will forgive him now, I promise you will never struggle with bitterness toward him in this way. But it is an act of your will.   You must choose to forgive. But I'm not going to make you do so, like if you don't want to forgive him, that's fine. But I'm telling you right now, forgiveness is key.”   And I remember walking out to the door and greeting Mark and just giving him a hug and then looking at him in the eyes as a 19-year-old freshman in college and saying, “hey, Mark, I've done what you've done 100 times. You know, I've swerved off the side of the road. And so, I just want to let you know, I hold no ill will against you, and I completely forgive you.”   And he didn't really know what to say, just kind of mumbled some level of gratitude, I think. But it was kind of quiet. I had no idea the power in that moment that was happening where I was not bound to hold it against him.   And my dad was right. How many years are we removed from this? And I still had I never once thought, oh, what a jerk.   I can't believe you. I never struggled with anger toward God over the loss of my brother. These were things that I think could have happened had I held on to not being forgiven and not released Mark from that.   And probably the greater redemption happened over the years where over the next seven years, he would see my parents or my family around town, and he would always kind of hang his head. And my dad would always make it a point to say hi and to try to contact him and be kind. But Mark was just sullen, and it was difficult.   And then later on, Mark ended up having a pretty aggressive form of cancer. And by this point, my wife and I got married in January before. And I'll never forget.   We went to Carolina Beach. We lived in North Carolina at the time for just a quick getaway, the two of us. And we were coming back.   And on the drive back, I remember receiving a call from my dad and he's crying on the phone. He says, “Well, Mark just passed away.” And he goes, “but before he did, he invited your mother and I up to his hospital room.”   And when we walked in the room, he looked at me, he said, “Gary, I have I have often wondered why and how. Why would you forgive me? How did you muster the strength to do such a thing?”   And my dad, in his simplicity or whatever, was like, “Well, it's easy. I've you know, I've been forgiven. Do you know how much I've done?   Do you know what hurt I've caused other people?” And he says, “It's only natural that I should forgive you for what happened. It wasn't your intention.   Jesus forgave me. And so, I forgive you. Just real simple.”   And in that moment, Mark then began to ask what motivates. And my dad got to explain a relationship with Jesus Christ. And so, literally on his deathbed, just prior to passing, Mark turned his heart over to the Lord.   I mean, it was awesome. And so, just such a powerful story of forgiveness.   Laura Dugger: (14:16 - 19:48) And now a brief message from our sponsor. Did you know you can go to college tuition free just by being a team member at Chick-fil-A East Peoria? Yes, you heard that right.   Free college education. All Chick-fil-A East Peoria team members in good standing are immediately eligible for a free college education through Point University. Point University is a fully accredited private Christian college located in West Point, Georgia.   This online self-paced program includes 13 associates degrees, 17 bachelor's degrees and two master's programs, including an MBA. College courses are fully transferable both in and out of this program. 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We are all about sharing around here, sharing resources, sharing joy and sharing the good news about Jesus Christ.   We ask that you also will share by sharing financially, sharing The Savvy Sauce podcast episodes, and sharing a five-star rating and review. You can also share any of our social media posts on Instagram or Facebook. We are grateful for all of it, and we just love partnering together with you.   Now, back to the show. What are the three types of suffering you see laid out in the Bible?   Doug Rumbold: (19:50 - 21:29) Yeah, I'm not a theologian by any stretch, and so I'm sure I might be missing some. But I think when I look at all of Scripture, I guess I just kind of come away with three different forms of suffering. I see the first one that you kind of come across is the most poignant one is the suffering of Job.   Here's somebody who didn't do anything wrong, and he experiences catastrophic pain. So, the suffering that God allows in his sovereignty is the first form. The second one is the suffering that I caused.   Now, obviously, this is the one we first confront in Scripture, in the narrative. We see it in Genesis 3. But the story that most poignantly points this out to me is the story of David and Bathsheba.   Here's a king who has everything he needs and wants, and he should be out protecting and defending his kingdom. And instead, he's on his rooftop looking and taking what is not his. And so, there's suffering that I cause.   My pastor in college used to say, “You choose to sin, you choose to suffer.” And I think it's an apt description. And then the third form of suffering is the suffering that my faith brings.   I think about the apostles where they are called in by the council and arrested and beaten and told not to speak in the name. And what do they do? They walk out rejoicing, like, yes, we've been counted worthy to suffer.   Like, yeah, that's so different than the American version of Christianity at the present moment. We don't necessarily think that way. So, in short order, the suffering that God allows in his sovereignty, the suffering I cause in my sin, and the suffering my faith brings with persecution would be the three.   Laura Dugger: (21:30 - 21:42) Well, and I loved one of your quotes where you write, the earnest desire of my heart is that you come to understand the presence of God in and through suffering, no matter its cause.   Doug Rumbold: (21:43 - 22:03) Well, when I think about that, think of your own life, Laura. When you go back through ever since you just you surrendered your heart to Jesus, can you point to where were the deepest learning moments for you? What do you think? How would you answer that question?   Laura Dugger: (22:04 - 22:26) I do feel like I may be an anomaly here because some of it is from those seasons of grief or searing loss. But also, I would say in the really good times, the gratitude and joy that he provides, those have been some of my greatest leaps in faith.   Doug Rumbold: (22:28 - 24:32) Yeah, I think that's huge. I think it's one of those reasons why you see in Scripture this idea of we're supposed to be people who are thanking God even through our suffering. I think it's that rhythm or that habit of gratitude that can transform even what may appear hard or difficult.   In the book, that quote that you just read, I think comes from this idea that God communicates his presence to us in different ways because of the form of suffering or hardship that we're facing. If I'm somebody who is suffering because of what God has allowed, I look at the idea of our daughter with cancer, for example, and I think, okay, the hardship that she faced, it would not make sense for her to frame her life and her hardship with suffering in terms of confession and forgiveness of sin. She didn't sin to get sick.   And so, the idea of how God's going to communicate his presence to her in the suffering that he allows is more about what does it mean to endure with patience and joy? How does she endure hardship with patience and joy? In those ways, in that way, rather, I think that's how God begins to communicate his presence to her.   His nearness to her means he's not far because something is wrong with her and she needs to be discarded. It's more that he is quite near, and it's the recognition of that. It's this like my heart can be glossed over by the pain I'm facing, whether God allows it, I cause it, or my faith brings it.   It can be glossed over if I have an inward curve, if I have like this inward turn of sin and I can miss. How does God want to communicate his presence to me through this? I think that overall, most of us focus more on the suffering that we're experiencing at times than we do on God's provided presence.   Laura Dugger: (24:33 - 24:54) And that reminds me of something else where you later write about Psalm 119:67, which says, “Before I was afflicted, I went astray, but now I keep your word.” So, Doug, how did you experience the truth of this scripture through your experience with your daughter Jada?   Doug Rumbold: (24:56 - 27:57) Yeah, I think probably the safest and quickest description is pain has a way of getting our attention. Like your toe is just fine when you're walking to the kitchen at 2:00 a.m. to grab a drink of water and go back to bed. And then your toe makes its presence known when you kick the chair, right?   And you're like, oh, and then you're acutely aware of it. You know, you go back to bed and it's throbbing. You might put some ice on it.   Now it's cold. And pain is like that where it gets my attention when it's hit. And so, I was not aware, I don't think, of the depth of my self-reliance until every bit of control was removed from me.   So, particularly when I think of Jada's challenge, you know that before I was afflicted, I went astray, but now I keep your word. There's this mercy in suffering that says ever so slightly, we are people who easily turn to ourselves and our resources before we will turn to God. My wife would say it this way, and I agree with her.   I think it's an excellent understanding of parenting. We both view parenting as a form of stewardship. So, if I get paid, which I do, you know, for my work as a pastor, I get paid, I steward that money.   It's not my money. The Lord owns the cattle on a thousand hills, right? So, if he owns everything, he owns even the finances that are put into my back pocket.   And the way that I steward it is the degree to which I am surrendered to him. And so, parenting is like that. God has given you the currency of children, and you have children that you are to steward back to God as an offering to him.   And my wife would say this, I just didn't know. I'm supposed to lay them down every day before the feet of God in full reliance and trust that he is a better parent than I will ever be. What happened in particular with our daughter showed how quickly we will take them back again, how quickly we will be people who will say, “Oh, well, I actually think I can make a better decision here than the Lord will.”   We would never say that out loud, but our control and our actions will illustrate that every day. It's one of the reasons why it's so easy to get offended when your kid sins against you. It's one of the reasons why it's so easy to be overwhelmed when your kid is far from you.   We can get to a place where though we are to steward our children back to God, like finances given to us, like children given to us, there's this idea we are supposed to be stewards. And so, I learned that I went astray from God. And I still do every day.   It's a thousand opportunities to return to him. Does that make sense or am I talking crazy?   Laura Dugger: (27:58 - 28:24) No, that makes that makes sense. And even I think you're talking about something probably a lot of us are relating to as parents of certain times where we really grasp we are not in control. So, will you even take us to that day where that first became a realization for you? Because you're a parent of I believe she was a five-year-old at the time. Is that right?   Doug Rumbold: (28:25 - 37:11) Yes, that day was awful. I would never want to repeat it. Jessica had it's not really a day, but a kind of a progression from kind of like a Thanksgiving time frame until January.   So, the short order is my wife was pregnant with our youngest and her date for delivery was supposed to be right after January 1st, because I remember thinking, are you kidding me? I'm going to miss the cutoff for claiming this dependent. And anyway, Thanksgiving, we had gone down to visit some dear friends of ours.   So, a shout out to John and Katrina. I'm sure they'll listen to this who live in Oklahoma. It's where I did my internship in college on like this orphan boys ranch.   It was awesome. I loved it and grew a great friendship with them. So, we were down there visiting them.   And my wife has this gallbladder attack. And the way she describes it, she felt like she was dying. And of course, she didn't wake me up because, you know, women can apparently experience pain and not make a big deal of it.   Men, that doesn't work. So, there's definitely a gender difference there. And so, she realizes as she's homeschooling Jada, this is not tenable.   I can't keep this up, especially if I'm going to have a child and everything. And so, we decided, oh, no big deal. We'll have just come back from our trip and decided we were going to put Jada in public school just for the last part of kindergarten.   And Jessica was going to give birth to the child and hopefully get the treatment that she needed because we took an ultrasound, and they discovered a bunch of gallstones. And it was rough. And so, we get back, and we go to the school, get the forms.   And basically, it was just filling out a couple of forms. Oh, yes. A bunch of check marks here, and a bunch of check marks there.   Get the dental form and all that. You need one last thing that we can't just sign away. You need to do a quick physical.   Now, Jada was feeling great doing everything. You know, all of her markers were fine. We go to a doctor from our church at the Tremont Medical Clinic and he performed just a simple physical.   And Jada was, you know, everything was just fine. And as he's palpating around her stomach, he's just kind of pressing there. And I don't know how doctors do this where they, you know, press on your stomach and they're like, OK, your organs are in the right place.   OK, I trust you. So, his face, like his countenance, just shifted. And Jessica and I were both in the room and he just kind of looks at me because I just can't reconcile this.   But to rule anything out, we're just going to have her get an ultrasound and be on our way. I remember thinking I had a hernia when I was young, maybe six months or something. I can't remember how old I was.   And so, Jessica and I went home that night and I mean, we were shedding tears like, oh, my goodness. Our sweet daughter has a hernia. Can't believe it.   What does this mean? She's going to have surgery, all this stuff. And never were we prepared for what happened next.   You know, the next morning she wakes up, and she takes Jada and Oliver, who's two at the time, to get the ultrasound in Peoria at a place called Peoria Imaging. And I stayed home. I was writing a sermon.   So, I'm sitting there working on a sermon from Mark, Chapter eight. And Jessica goes and I'm not hearing from her. I'm not hearing from her.   And then about three hours later, I got a call and she's like, so, they did an ultrasound and then they did like another one. And then they ordered a CT, and they just got done with the CT. And she goes and I just looked out in the waiting room and it's full and nobody's coming in.   And now they said that she needs an MRI. And I'm like, “What?” This doesn't seem like a hernia.   And she said, “Honey, I just asked the nurse, and they won't commit.” “Like they won't say anything,” I asked.   I kept asking if it's a hernia. And finally, I just asked one of the nurses, “Is it bad?” And the nurse said, “That she thinks it's significant.”   And I'm like, oh. And I remember that day then calling my dad or my parents and just kind of giving them updates along the way. Like, okay, you know, Jay is going in for a quick ultrasound, probably a hernia.   But then I remember calling my dad and my dad's on the phone with me right after I got off with Jess. And I just said, “So, it went from just a quick ultrasound to CT to an MRI.” And I said, “They just finished the MRI or they're in process.”   And they said, “That after the MRI, they want to send her to the hospital for blood work.” And my dad's only response was, “Oh, boy. I mean, it was just like,” and his voice quivered.   You know, the quiver of like the I don't know if I'm ready for this sort of quiver. And I can only imagine what's going through his head, having already lost two children and particularly one to cancer. He knows that feeling.   So, the day only got longer from there. I got a ride over there with my sister-in-law to Puri Imaging. And then we went to the hospital together and had to get blood drawn and all that stuff.   And that's a whole story in and of itself, the trauma of that for her. But I remember leaving the hospital and Jessica and I know at this point with the full weight of this is not a hernia, but we still don't have answers. Like every time I'm asking a question to a doctor or a nurse, they are deferring and deferring and deferring.   And my anger internally is kind of growing. And so, I'm a little, I'm not aggressive, but I'm assertive. And I remember driving away from OSF in Peoria.   And as we're driving away, Jade is just in the back seat looking out the window. And Jessica and I are in the front seat, just crying, but trying to hold it together, you know. And I look in my rearview mirror.   I'm like, “Hey, sweetie.” And she's like, “Yeah.” “Like, what are you thinking about?”   She goes well. I just can't decide what smoothie I want at Smoothie King. That was the day where they, you know, the scan that she had to have was an NPO, which means she can't have any food or liquid unless it's clear.   And so, she was starving. And at this point it was like 6:30 at night. So, she's super hungry.   And so, we went to the first location and the second location. They were all closed between Christmas and New Year's. So, no Smoothie King for her.   And that was the last time we remember eating at McDonald's as a family. And then that night the diagnosis finally came. We got back home.   We were home for 10 minutes. And we received a call from what ended up being her surgeon from Illinois Medical Clinic. And we were asked to come back into an after-hours appointment, which those are never good.   And so, we walk in the door. We sit down. There's not even a secretary.   The lights in the building are off. We were walking down this hallway to this last, you know, exam room. And Jada is just sitting there on the table.   Jessica is about ready to pop pregnancy-wise. And the doctor walks in and says, so, I assume you know why you're here. And I said, actually, we haven't been able to get a straight answer.   And we have no idea what's happening. And she goes, are you kidding me? She's like, I have to be the one to tell you this, that your daughter has kidney cancer.   And I think the thing that caught me was Jessica sitting on a chair kind of at the foot of the exam table. And instinctively, I mean, it was like it wasn't even – it was no coaching. There was no – Jada just kind of crumbled and her body just kind of fell onto Jess.   And Jess's mom has walked through cancer twice. And so, Jessica has lived this journey as well, just the difficulty of it. And so, for her, she's just like I know what this required of me when my mom had it.   And I had to take care of her when I was in junior high and then again when I was in college. And now I'm pregnant and now my daughter has cancer. It was unreal.   And then I wrote about it in the book, but the walk from the front door to the van where Jada's face was buried in my neck. And the warmth of her tears and just her body just kind of melted into mine as we're walking back to the van. And it's like I never want to forget that because the usefulness of it, how helpful it is for me to recall some things, to live in that place of like this is what you redeem, this is what you restore.   But it was hard as heck. And so, that would be what I remember from the day of diagnosis.   Laura Dugger: (37:13 - 37:26) It is so hard to imagine what that would look like to get that news. And I'm just wondering for you and Jess, what did your faith look like and what were your conversations like with the Lord at that point?   Doug Rumbold: (37:29 - 39:10) You know, I – because of the loss of my brother earlier, I don't – I mean that's a great question. And I don't mean this how it might sound or come across, but my faith was never – I don't think that my faith was an issue in terms of am I still going to cling to Jesus. It was just more of a – it was just – it was so hard.   I really wish I had words for it. I talk about this in another podcast that I did. I remember just feeling so overwhelmed and more of a feeling like we were treading water in the middle of an ocean.   And someone – you're like begging for a life raft and they hand you a cinder block. And you're like, not helpful. So, my faith, our conversations with the Lord, they were hard, and we were certainly super sad.   My wife would probably talk about how she was broken and quiet and learning afresh what it means to surrender. But she is methodical and consistent in her pursuit of the Lord and extremely faithful. And so, hers was sitting in solitude and just waiting and cry and lament and work through it all and then come out the other side stronger.   I process things a little bit more verbally. But I think our faith was strong. We were just shattered for the pain that she was experiencing for sure.   Laura Dugger: (39:11 - 39:35) That's a great way of putting it. And just like He promises, I have spoken – Mark and I have talked with you and Jess before. And you've shared how God continued to be an ever-present help in these times of trouble.   But will you share one of your conversations with the Lord where he responded to you with alliteration?   Doug Rumbold: (39:35 - 45:50) Yeah, the one that I think of is – and I write about it a little bit in my book. But I just remember thinking kind of two questions that I would ask. One was right after Pierce was born and we obviously weren't having any sleep.   So, if you look at the timeline, Jada was diagnosed on the 30th of December. The 2nd of January was Jessica and my anniversary. The 3rd was Jada's surgery.   The 10th was when her pathology came back. And the diagnosis went from 95, 98% cure rate, survival rate just fine to like 40 to 60% survival rate. And a different stage of cancer and the size of the tumor was much larger than they originally anticipated.   And so, we came home that night from the pathology report and wept and wept and wept. And then Jessica started labor that night. And it was a blizzard.   Our midwife didn't make the birth. And then Pierce is born on the morning of the 11th, which is the same morning that Jada and I were supposed to go back in now to have more MRIs, more blood work to determine had the cancer metastasized throughout her whole body instead of just in that one tumor. And it was assumed that it had and so, that's why they were checking everything.   And so, it was an urgent, you need to get there for this. I just kind of felt like the one question, one of two questions I was asking, but one of them was with conversation with the Lord was when will you relent? Won't you just relent?   So, I was never like struggling in my faith to the degree that I was going to toss it, but I was angry with God. I was like, come on, like, how does this work? Can you give, throw me a bone, basically.   So, that was one conversation. But the conversation that's most poignant is after he started to frame those things up a little bit and give more of a trellis to build on. I remember treatment had begun, which timeline, if you're looking at it, the 11th is when Pierce is born.   The 13th is when Jada started treatment. So, from like the 13th to the 18th, she had radiation. And then after that, for the rest of the year, eight months, whatever, she had chemo.   I remember one morning I never slept at the hospital. It was just not comfortable. It was always beeping, stuff like that.   So, I would often go down to the playroom. There's an activity room at the end of the hall on the sixth floor there at OSF. And I'd be down there with a lackluster cup of coffee and my Bible and journal.   And I'd watch the sunrise over the city of Peoria. And it would just be kind of like; I really couldn't hardly read. It would be more of me just like, because no one was awake.   That was the only time when it was semi quiet. And I would just have these out loud conversations with the Lord. Like, what's happening?   And the conversation, the question that I kept asking was, Lord, how in the world are we going to do this? How in the world are we going to make it through? That's really when he began to kind of press back in.   And I'm not, I don't know how to explain this, but more of a, I had a very tangible sense that as I'm sitting there on the sixth floor, that he was almost in the chair next to me. And he's just, he's like, okay, tell me more about your struggle. What's it like?   Help me to understand the pain of your heart. And so, I'm, I'm unloading these things to Him. And all of a sudden I noticed the time and it's like, oh, Jada is going to be waking up soon.   I need to get back there before they do rounds, you know, and the whole dance starts again. And so, I kind of like, oh, I want to return. It's like when you wake up from a dream and you're like, oh no, I want to finish the dream.   And you try to go back to sleep quickly. That's a little bit of how that conversation was working out. And I remember going back to the room and jotting a few more things down in my journal.   And then after that it goes, okay. The day was now full of motion. And I had forgotten about the conversation quite honestly.   And until that evening, I was like, okay, I'm just gonna, I told Jada, I'm like, “Honey, I'm going to run home real quick and shower, get a change of clothes and maybe get some real food. And then I'll be back. Okay.”   Don't worry. And so, I hopped in my car, I turned on my headlights, and I got out of the parking garage, and I got on 74. And right as I was getting on the bridge to cross over the Illinois to go back toward Tremont, it was, I mean, I don't know how people feel about this.   So, sorry if I start a theological controversy on your podcast, but, um, I, as I'm sitting there as audible as you and I talking back and forth, there's this sense of my spirit of like, you asked how you're going to get through Christ community and confession. But there was really beyond that, there was really no discussion. You know, it was more just like those three words got tossed out.   And so, I remember driving down the highway and almost like, uh, you're in a zone where it's like, you see the headlights, you know, going like right past you and, and nothing is distracting to me. And I remember thinking some of those things made sense to me, like, you know, yes, Christ suffered. Yes.   I need community around me, things like that. But confession was the one that I struggled with the most. Like what do you mean by that?   You know, because I had a courtroom idea of confession, like, okay, I got caught doing something I shouldn't have. I need to confess. What I did was wrong.   And there definitely is that element. But I came to learn later that confession is the Hebrew word. One of the Hebrew words for it actually means praise.   And so, there's this, there's this idea of caught up, being caught up in understanding the presence of God and you're confessing. It's the word that actually, more accurately, fits is declaration. And so, I'm like, oh, wow.   Okay. So, what you're saying then is these scriptures that I've been studying for years now, I I'm actually, it's about declaring them in praise over my life, over my circumstances, over my daughter as a way of help to get us through. Okay.   Laura Dugger: (45:51 - 47:09) By now, I hope you've checked out our updated website, thesavvysauce.com so that you can have access to all the additional freebies we are offering, including all of our previous articles and all of our previous episodes, which now include transcriptions. You will be equipped to have your own practical chats for intentional living. When you read all the recommended questions in the articles or gain insight from expert guests and past episodes, as you read through the transcriptions, because many people have shared with us that they want to take notes on previous episodes, or maybe their spouse prefers to read our conversations rather than listen to them.   We heard all of that and we now have provided transcripts for all our episodes. Just visit thesavvysauce.com. All of this is conveniently located under the tab show notes on our website.   Happy reading. And I just want to go back to something that you said, because you use the word relent. God, how long until you relent?   And yet he flipped that word and taught you that he will relentlessly continue to pursue you with his presence.   Doug Rumbold: (47:10 - 49:26) I'm glad that you draw that out because I think the relentless pursuit is in that question of when will you relent? It was one of our darker moments, even in marriage where my wife and I were both stretched to the max, totally thin and struggling. And it was an argument, you know, where I'm lying on the ground after my wife and I had just kind of like, I need you to take care of this.   And she's asking me to take care of something I'm not wanting to, and I'm holding my ground and I'm tired. She's tired. And aren't your best moments between midnight and 7am anyway?   And so, I remember laying on the ground. That moment was laying on the ground at the foot of my son's crib in our bedroom. And he was not sleeping.   He's a newborn. Newborns don't sleep easily. And I remember pounding the ground and actually saying, you know, when, when will you relent God?   Like when will you let up? And to see the connection between my question was the assumption that God had left the building that God had kind of punched the clock. Okay.   I'll be back by five. You know, like when instead, the way that He wants to communicate His presence to me in my suffering shows that He's relentlessly digging through every bit of self-reliance that I've set up to try to manufacture outcomes. And so, there, there's a way that His relentless presence is like, like waves on a shore one after the other, the rhythmic nature of it, the dependable nature of it, you can't stop it.   Nature of it is the way that He can and will use any circumstance trial in your life to communicate His presence to you. So, yeah, that's right. Its relenting is a releasing and letting go, but relentless pursuit is also this like dogged pursuit of us.   it's been said before that, that God or Christ is the hound of heaven, you know, like a blood hound with your scent who won't give up until He finds you. And so, similar to our experience for sure.   Laura Dugger: (49:27 - 50:00) Well, and you go into these stories and then also offer hope and offer so much scripture where you have poured over to help us make sense of suffering. And even see things where it's a very upside-down economy as God often has, where there's blessing in the affliction, but yet to close the loop on this story. Can you give us a picture of where your family is at today? Even the ages of your children and Jada's status?   Doug Rumbold: (50:01 - 52:27) Yeah, for sure. So, it's been a long journey for sure. Jada now is 18 and we are in preparation for her.   She is going to be going to Arizona Christian University in the fall. So, a nice short 24-hour drive away. And so, again, we're learning afresh what it looks like to lay down our children, but we're super excited about it.   We are super excited about the new friends she'll make. My wife and I have always said Jada is a spread your wings and fly sort of girl and cancer only proved that. So, we're super excited about that for her.   Our son, Oliver, who was two at the time, is now 14 where he's a freshman. He turns 15 this summer and I'm sure we'll be driving soon after. No concerns there.   And then my son, Pierce, is in sixth grade. And yeah, they all have their own interest's kind of across the board. Jada loves music and singing and playing piano.    Oliver is relationally. He's just this guy who enjoys mature conversation. So, like when we get together with our life group, you'll find him talking to the adult men just because he fits there. He's more of an old soul.   Pierce is our creative kid. He's always doing trick shots. And I mean, it's pretty crazy the stuff that he does. He's kind of fun like that and loves fishing and things of this nature.    So, yeah, all of my kids are very interesting and different like that. My wife is doing homeschooling for the boys, and she continues to be somebody who is a silent influencer in the lives of many, usually and primarily through prayer.   But I am amazed at how often the Lord uses her in the lives of other people to bring about change and transformation. She's just an excellent gifted counselor of people with the word of God and prayer. So, that's kind of where our family's at.   I've been at the time that Jada was ill, I was the youth pastor at Northfield and I'm still at Northfield though. I'm in a different role. I'm pastor of counseling and discipleship here at Northfield.   So, I have never left this community. So, I'm trying to think if there's anything else update wise. I don't think so.   I think it's pretty much it.   Laura Dugger: (52:27 - 52:30) And so, Jada is in remission.   Doug Rumbold: (52:30 - 55:11) Yes. She did have one other occurrence where she started having really acute headaches in 2013. Then, those acute headaches turned into taking her back for a checkup and the checkup revealed a lesion on her frontal lobe. So, a brain tumor.   We had to wait eight weeks to scan again. Those eight weeks were the hardest and worst that I think we've faced even from the first cancer. It was like, “Oh my goodness, we're going to have to go through this again.”   And then we had this season of waiting, you know, the eight weeks and then she was going back in for another scan to determine scope and growth. Also, you know, what type of craniotomy or brain surgery they were going to perform, to address it or whether it was going to be treated medically. Or how was that going to happen? And so, that all took place. Then, they did the scan, and we had to wait.   Normally we would have these scans, and it would be like a four-to-eight-hour turnaround. And you know that same day or even the next day we get a call from the St. Jude office, and they would say all clear. This one went one day, that was two days.   And I called and they said, “Oh, well, you know, the doctor will call you.” And I'm like, “Come on Beth.” You know, she was the head nurse that I've had relationship with for a while.   And she's like, “No, you know, the doctor will tell you.” And I'm like, “That's never good.” And come to find out, we had to wait until the end of that week.   So, it was not one day, not two days, not three days, not four days, but five. So, it went from Monday to Friday. And on Friday, the doctor called me after hours.   And I thought for sure it was, you know, here we go treatment time. And, um, she called back and said, the reason it's taken so long is because I had to have conference calls with, uh, Memphis, DC, LA, all these different cancer centers and looking at the imaging together. But when, when we laid the last image that shows the lesion over the newest one, the newest one shows nothing like it's completely gone.   And she goes, and it's definitely here. It's definitely something that requires intervention. And now it doesn't.   And so, she goes, I just wanted to confirm the anomaly. I'm like, that's not an anomaly. That's a healing.   And so, uh, Jada has been in remission, ever since. So, she's been, she's been doing good. In fact, her last cancer follow-up appointment was like three weeks ago and got the all clear.   So, praise God.   Laura Dugger: (55:11 - 55:44) Praise God. What an awesome, miraculous healing. I'm so thankful you shared that and really Doug with your unique career that you're in and the journey that you and Jess have been through and your love of scripture, you're putting all of this together and it really is such a gift, this book that you've written.   So, can you tell us just a little bit more of who this book is for and what people could expect to find when they read it?   Doug Rumbold: (55:45 - 57:54) Yeah. So, the book is for anyone because, and you would know this as well, but you're either heading into a trial, you're in the middle of a trial or you're on the backside of a trial. And there's never a moment in which you can say, “Oh, okay, well now I've learned and now I've arrived and now we're good.”   I do think that the preparation of our heart for trial is critical because it's going to come like we are going to face suffering of some form at some point. And so, it's good to know how to approach it. It's for anybody who wants to learn and grow and be encouraged.   But specifically, one of the things that I struggled with during our trial, and it's ongoing, you know, because of some of the stuff that we mentioned before ongoing health issues in our family and stuff like that. But I, what I found was people would be like, “Oh, here's a book.” It's only 320 pages on suffering.   I'm like, really? Thanks for that. I've got no capacity to do that.   So, I purposely wanted to write a book that you could personally sit and read like in an afternoon. It's so, it's short. It's like, you know, a hundred pages and it's digestible.   So, you could jump from one chapter to the eighth chapter if you wanted, and you would, you would still hopefully gain something. So, I wanted to make it uniquely accessible and heart focused. So, you'll find kind of like throughout the chapters, I have these like, so, truth to life.   And what I'm basically doing is trying to say, “Okay, we talked about something at a 30,000-foot view. What does it look like boots on the ground here?” I don't usually just spell it out for you.   I usually ask questions that are going to force you to address heart issues because scripture is pretty clear that all of our conduct flows from a heart that's filled with good or bad. So, people can expect to be challenged. They can expect to not have something that's too long and too hard to read, but they can also expect to find it kind of built around story a little bit.   That's one of the reasons why I use those different stories from scripture. I think we relate well and explain things well in a story.   Laura Dugger: (57:55 - 58:14) Definitely agree. We learn so much from Jesus's stories. Those stick with us and yours do too.   So, thank you for sharing all of those today. And if anyone desires more help and healing after today's conversation, where would you direct them?   Doug Rumbold: (58:15 - 59:59) The first thing that I would do is just encourage prayer. The idea of silence and solitude is where you can be begun to become aware of the healing that you may need and being able to just journal it down and have it right in front of you. That is probably one of the first steps.   Second thing I would say is to lean into community. COVID has kind of wrecked things in some ways where some people have gotten used to this idea of either online attendance or whatever. Nothing, nothing, nothing replaces the body of Christ in the tangible way.   And so, the idea of being with and around other like-minded believers is critical. But in terms of myself, the book that I wrote, it's available on Walmart, Amazon, Barnes and Noble. You can just search Presence Over Pain in a search engine and find it pretty easily.   I am currently in the works of working through like an audio version of it because some people prefer that. So, that will be forthcoming. You can find me on Facebook or Instagram.   I provide biblical counseling in person or virtually so, people can contact me through those platforms if they want to have a conversation. And the cool thing is those things happen. There's a number of different connections that God has made where people have either read the book or they know someone who read the book and my name was recommended and here I am a couple of months later having a conversation with someone who found me online.   And I love technology for that purpose. How can we come together and build around something in Christ? It's pretty awesome.   Laura Dugger: (59:59 - 1:00:31) That is awesome. And we will certainly add all of those links in the show notes for today's episode. In addition to the link to your own podcast where you dig a little bit deeper into the book.   And the name of that is also Presence Over Pain podcast. And Doug, you know that our podcast is called The Savvy Sauce because savvy is synonymous with practical knowledge. And so, as my final question for you today, what is your Savvy Sauce?   Doug Rumbold: (1:00:32 - 1:04:48) I love the question because practical is helpful. So, I think probably just some brief stories and then a couple of suggestions. So, I remember when I was younger, all seven of us children kind of growing up in the same house.   My dad had such a passion for us to know the word of God that he wanted us to all like sit down at the same time. And he was going to read a chapter of Proverbs. Well, can you imagine seven kids on a Tuesday morning trying to get ready for school?   And then your father saying, “Okay, everybody sit down.” Like nobody's going to be able to do that. And so, after a few failed attempts, what my dad did was he would, he would have a section that he was going to read, and he would start with the oldest child, and he would follow them around literally like follow them.   And he would just, he would read the word of God to them and then he would move to the next one and to the next one and to the next one and the next one. And I have memories of like even walking out the door, going to get on the bus and my dad following me right up to the door, reading the last bit of Proverbs to us. And so, practically speaking, you really cannot underestimate the value of intentionally diving into God's word daily personally.   Like don't let somebody else do it for you. It's so, personal. It's so, needed.   And just when you feel like it's not going to matter, the fruit of it will come forth. So, that's, that's one. And then the other story that kind of points to a practical reality is my wife grew up through her parents splitting up when she was, I think, second or third grade.   And just the difficulty of that, like the life of a single mom as she and her sister watched her mom go through that. But Jessica tells a story often of like not understanding and now understanding, but like she would knock on her mom's door and she would hear her mom crying and she would, she'd open the door and her mom would be face down on the floor, just, just praying and weeping. And she's like, hold on, honey.   Mommy just needs to be with Jesus. And it communicated this idea. And my wife has carried this on in our own family and in her practice of just like prayer and particularly prayers of lament are huge.   And so, practically speaking, what's that look like? I mean, I have an exercise. I'm sure you are being a counselor by nature would, would appreciate this.   But one of the things that you can do to learn how to lament is to look at a good number of the Psalms are lament Psalms. Like they're sad Psalms. Like Lord, my life stinks.   The wheels have fallen off and you're nowhere to be found. So, being honest with God is critical, but a simple assignment would be to read a lament Psalm, like Psalm 13 or Psalm 88 or Psalm 77, Psalm 42, any of those. And then as you read that Psalm, just the simple assignment is to like write your own Psalm of lament and then read it back to the Lord. You know, Lord, I felt like you were absent when my daughter was diagnosed with cancer, but I am going to trust in your unfailing love.   Like you see those pictures all throughout the Psalm. So, that's a practical, simple way to engage God. I think the last thing that I would say in terms of practical is the idea of rest from a perspective, you know, biblically it's called Sabbath.   Do you have a 24-hour period of rest? Because what you do when you Sabbath is you say something to God and to everyone else. It doesn't depend on me.   When I choose to rest, I'm choosing not to be productive. I'm choosing not to perform. I'm choosing only to receive.   I'm choosing to rest. I'm choosing to fall back into his arms. Rhythmically reminding ourselves of that for me, the way that that works out is like, you know, I'm a pastor.   So, Sundays are a workday. So, once I get home after Sunday until like noon, the following day is the time when it's like, okay, this is where I'm not going to be on my screen. I'm going to take a walk with the family.   We're going to have dinner together. Things that are filling and receiving are critically helpful. And I would say savvy.   Laura Dugger: (1:04:49 - 1:05:08) That's so good. And Doug, Mark and I are just so grateful to know you and Jess. We learn from both of you, and we've learned from your stories. They've been so impactful today.   So, thank you for writing this resource and thank you for being my guest today.   Doug Rumbold: (1:05:09 - 1:05:11) It was a total pleasure. Thank you for having me on.   Laura Dugger: (1:05:12 - 1:08:54) One more thing before you go. Have you heard the term gospel before?   It simply means good news. And I want to share the best news with you. But it starts with the bad news.   Every single one of us were born sinners, but Christ desires to rescue us from our sin, which is something we cannot do for ourselves. This means there is absolutely no chance we can make it to heaven on our own. So, for you and for me, it means we deserve death, and we can never pay back the sacrifice we owe to be saved.   We need a savior. But God loved us so much, he made a way for his only son to willingly die in our place as the perfect substitute. This gives us hope of life forever in right relationship with him.   That is good news. Jesus lived the perfect life we could never live and died in our place for our sin. This was God's plan to make a way to reconcile with us so that God can look at us and see Jesus.   We can be covered and justified through the work Jesus finished if we choose to receive what He has done for us. Romans 10:9 says, “That if you confess with your mouth Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.” So, would you pray with me now?   Heavenly Father, thank you for sending Jesus to take our place. I pray someone today right now is touched and chooses to turn their life over to you. Will you clearly guide them and help them take their next step in faith to declare you as Lord of their life?   We trust you to work and change lives now for eternity. In Jesus' name we pray. Amen.   If you prayed that prayer, you are declaring him for me, so me for him. You get the opportunity to live your life for him. And at this podcast, we're called The Savvy Sauce for a reason.   We want to give you practical tools to im

In Episode 268 we give our hot take review on The Game Makers covering the mechanisms, the production, and our overall feelings of the game.We discuss a listener question on best 2 player mid-weight Euro style games, and then we talk about some games that have been on our tables including Age of Comics, Pagan: Fate of Roanoke, and Arborea.Timestamps:00:00 Introduction01:43 Patreon Question: Best mid-weight Euro game at 2 players?10:38 The Game Makers Description12:49 Gameplay and Mechanisms28:05 Production and Theme26:25 Final Thoughts45:00 Age of Comics: The Golden Years53:14 Arborea54:48 Pagan: Fate of Roanoke1:02:33 Listener ShoutoutIf you enjoy the show, please consider supporting us at https://www.patreon.com/boardgamehottakesFollow us on BlueSky: https://bsky.app/profile/boardgamehottakes.bsky.socialJoin our Board Game Arena Community: https://boardgamearena.com/group?id=11417205Join our Discord server at:⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://discord.gg/vMtAYQWURd⁠

Send us a textDoug is back from flying the 777 to Frankfurt and Drew finished his first week on PM shift in airport operations.  Fresh croissants from Germany, elevators out of service, runway inspections, and 767 crew resource management - this episode is packed!. We discuss:Winter schedule routesSpirit lays off 1,800 flight attendantsThe Embraer E2 gets more love - this time from LATAMHuge Boeing order from the Middle EastEMAS saves an E145 in Roanoke, VAUnited upgrades their GUM serviceAmerican and United have IT outagesBag cans on narrowbodiesListener commentsJoin The Nextwork! https://www.nexttripnetwork.com/

Tonight's guest, Zach, lives in Roanoke, Virginia and he's been living there for most of his life. On tonight's show, Zach is going to be talking about a Sasquatch sighting he had in his backyard in June of 2021, while he was doing yardwork. Before Zach had that experience, he was an open-minded skeptic, as he describes it. Back then, he thought that if Sasquatch were real, they didn't come out during the daytime. Zach was about to find out how wrong he was about that. After having his sighting and coming to the realization Sasquatch actually are extant, he was terrified and afraid to go into his backyard alone. We hope you'll tune into tonight's show, so you can find out the particulars regarding his experience.If you'd like to check out Zach's wife's media and her YouTube channel, which we hope you will, please visit…https://tiffanysdoran.comIf you've had a Sasquatch sighting and would like to be a guest on the show, please go to BigfootEyewitness.com and let me know. I'd love to hear from you.If you'd like to help support the show, by buying your own Bigfoot Eyewitness t-shirt or sweatshirt, please visit the Bigfoot Eyewitness Show Store, by going to https://Dogman-Encounters.MyShopify.comI produce 4 other shows that are available on your favorite podcast app. If you haven't checked them out, here are links to all 4 channels on the Spreaker App...My Bigfoot Sighting https://www.spreaker.com/show/my-bigfoot-sighting Dogman Tales https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/dogman-tales--6640134Dogman Encounters https://www.spreaker.com/show/dogman-encounters-radio_2 My Paranormal Experience https://www.spreaker.com/show/my-paranormal-experience Thanks, as always, for listening!