POPULARITY
16 episodes with Thorpe Park
6 episodes with Thorpe Park
13 episodes with Thorpe Park
8 episodes with Thorpe Park
7 episodes with Thorpe Park
5 episodes with Thorpe Park
2 episodes with Thorpe Park
5 episodes with Thorpe Park
2 episodes with Thorpe Park
Get ready for an episode of The Manny and Shawn Experience that's so wild, it could only happen across the pond! We're spilling ALL the tea on our epic London adventure, from our first-ever European music festival (hello, Ciara and JoJo!) to braving the thrills of Thorpe Park, and capping it off with an unforgettable night at Beyoncé's Cowboy Carter Tour! And just when you thought it couldn't get crazier, we're diving deep into a "What the Hell is Going On in America?" POV that'll leave you speechless. Tune in NOW – you don't want to miss this!Timestamp:Show intro - (00:00)Mixtape - (3:10)Mighty Hoopla - (4:30)Thorpe Park - (19:34)What's your POV - (47:58) London Friends - (25:14)Cowboy Carter - (26:14) What's your POV - (40:51)No Kings Day Protest - (41:00)Southern Baptist Convention - (54:00)Follow us on social:Instagram | TikTok | YouTube | Bluesky - @masxp23Audio streaming on Apple Podcast, Iheart Radio, YouTube Music and Amazon Music. Visual Podcast available on YouTube and Spotify. FOR BUSINESS INQUIRIES EMAIL: mannyandshawn@gmail.comThe Manny & Shawn Experience Podcast Website: https://masxp23.my.canva.site/ #LondonAdventures #MightyHoopla #ThorpePark #
In the locker this week! Jem in France Scott's shop sprint Security fears revisited Macron face push Scott's Ireland Trip Chess Review Kylie! Bazuka gel! Oasis stress Manchester Segway Cheese whiff Scott's 15th Birthday Dads film rentals Organised fear! Spider stage invasion! Thorpe Park problems bwtbpod@gmail.com Join our Patreon for exclusive episodes and early access here! https://www.patreon.com/bwtbpod A 'Keep It Light Media' Production Sales, advertising, and general enquiries: hello@keepitlightmedia.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
Following Joe's failed attempt to ride Hyperia at Thorpe Park, David wants to convince Joe that visiting haunted woods and castles are just as scary as going on a roller-coaster. So knowing that Joe lives quite near to Clapham Wood - a renowned site of ghosts, ghouls and creepy goings on, David sets about telling him everything about the place to get him properly spooked. And then challenges him to visit there in the dead of night. FOR ALL THINGS CHATABIX'Y FOLLOW/SUBSCRIBE/CONTACT: YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@chatabixpodcast Twitter: https://twitter.com/chatabix1 Insta: https://www.instagram.com/chatabixpodcast/ Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/chatabix Merch: https://chatabixshop.com/ Contact us: chatabix@yahoo.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
The day of Joe's long awaited trip to Thorpe Park has finally arrived and he's made his way there to ride the dreaded Hyperia - Britain's tallest and fastest roller coaster! What will happen, how will he cope with the nerves and how will he feel after such an exhilarating/petrifying experience. Well, not everything goes quite as planned, in more ways than one. So stay tuned for the full debrief… FOR ALL THINGS CHATABIX'Y FOLLOW/SUBSCRIBE/CONTACT: YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@chatabixpodcast Twitter: https://twitter.com/chatabix1 Insta: https://www.instagram.com/chatabixpodcast/ Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/chatabix Merch: https://chatabixshop.com/ Contact us: chatabix@yahoo.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
It's a very positive start to today's show as Joe is determined not to let his negativity take over the conversation. And in that spirit, he and David decide to re-book a ticket for the roller coaster ride that Joe failed to go on last year. Full of enthusiasm, he dives straight in and books one for Chessington - before realising he actually needs to go to the bigger ride at Thorpe Park. So he books one for there too. Much to David's delight, Joe now has a two roller coaster day in store for himself - watch this space…. FOR ALL THINGS CHATABIX'Y FOLLOW/SUBSCRIBE/CONTACT: YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@chatabixpodcast Twitter: https://twitter.com/chatabix1 Insta: https://www.instagram.com/chatabixpodcast/ Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/chatabix Merch: https://chatabixshop.com/ Contact us: chatabix@yahoo.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
Nicola Henderson is the CEO of Godstone Farm having had a career at Chessington World of Adventures, Madame Tussauds, Thorpe Park as well as Kidzania. We chat about her role as CEO at Godstone Farm and what this actually involves as well as plans for the future of the business. Nicola shares some interesting events that take place at Godstone Farm. You can see more of what it has to offer at www.godstonefarm.co.uk Your Business Hour podcast is hosted by the founders of Champ Consultants, Chantal and Matthew Baker. They are both accountants and bring a wealth of knowledge, experience, and business tips to their chat. They interview guests who tell their business stories, as well as consider the latest topics in business and finance.New podcasts are released weekly on a Tuesday and you can follow us on:Instagram: @your.businesshourFacebook: @your.businesshour
John Burton was just 27 when he was put in charge of creating Thorpe Park's biggest-ever project. Once too scared to go on rides himself, how did he become the architect of so many daredevils' dreams? By Tom Lamont. Help support our independent journalism at theguardian.com/longreadpod
Sean and Alex take us to Ocean Park Hong Kong and Thorpe Park, where we experience tropical heat in the Hong Kong highlands and chilly rainy weather in the United Kingdom. During recent work trips to the regions, Sean received his Hair Raiser credit, and Alex rode Hyperia. How are Ocean Park and Thorpe Park holding up?
097 = Number of Maps & Numbered Pads
Nos vamos hasta el país que hasta hace unos años formó de la Unión Europea y se piró. De ahí el nombre de los parques del Brexit, aquellos que se quedaron al otro lado, para los que necesitamos tener pasaporte. Para charlar sobre ellos nos traemos a Coastergramer, Jose Luis y Amanda, que son unos viajeros de pro y hablan, largo y tendido, sobre su creación de contenido y sobre una selección de tres parques de atracciones ingleses importantes: Alton Towers, Thorpe Park y Pleasure Beach Resort.
Join us for episode 423 of the Theme Park Trader Podcast. This week our friend Carly rejoins us to chat through our Thorpe Park experience in 2024. We also use this as an opportunity to discuss the UK parks as a whole given that she and her family are Merlin pass holders! Be sure to check us out over on www.themeparktrader.com.
Triforce! Episode 300! The gang went to Thorpe Park and rode some terrifying rides, we discover Saw and Texas Chainsaw Massacre has a million movies, wonder when a "Sequel" becomes a "Franchise" and we mash up our favourite 80s movies to create some real abominations! Go to http://expressvpn.com/triforce today and get an extra 3 months free on a 1-year package! Support your favourite podcast on Patreon: https://bit.ly/2SMnzk6 Music courtesy of Epidemic Sound. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
Get in touch! Drop Benji and Brad a text message by clicking on this link.Ever found yourself unexpectedly clutching a penis pump after a night of Drag Bingo chaos? You're not alone. We kick off with tales of spooky thrills from London's Tully's Farm Shocktober Fest and Thorpe Park's Fright Nights, where scare mazes and roller coasters in the dark set the scene for our Halloween escapades. The adventure takes a cheeky twist with a night out in Soho's Little Coup, where an unexpected prize left us pondering its pros, cons, and the slapstick comedy of late-night filming mishaps.Shenanigans continue as we navigate London's social scene, from party mishaps to climbing the social ladder with unexpected celebrity connections. Relive the hilarity of a celebrity-style party invite from an old acquaintance, Matt, and the cringe-worthy aftermath of neglecting instruction manuals (yes, involving that penis pump again). There's also a dash of nostalgia for themed parties, highlighted by a memorable moment of channeling our inner Heathers, perms included, at the Mighty Hoopla's Butlins Weekenders.Wrap your ears around tales of romantic beach encounters and high-octane escapades on sandy shores. From secret moonlit rendezvous to the thrill of nearly getting caught in compromising locations, these stories promise a mix of humor, intrigue, and oversharing—perfect for those who relish a good laugh. We round off with a playful mystery revolving around a mysterious Luke and a promise to keep the fun coming next week. Join us for an episode that captures the spirited essence of life in London and beyond!Support the showGet to know us more personally!Instagramwww.instagram.com/biggaypodcastEmailhello@mybiggaypodcast.comWebsitewww.MyBigGayPodcast.com
Get in touch! Drop Benji and Brad a text message by clicking on this link.Can a petty argument really be the catalyst for an adventure in the heart of London? Join us as we navigate the aftermath of a heated debate between your favorite hosts, Benji and Brad. Amidst the tension, there's a silver lining as Brad scores a free coffee from Pret, while Benji patiently waits for a planned rendezvous. Our episode is sprinkled with playful jabs, Mr. Burns references, and a reminder that Halloween is just around the corner—our very own "gay Christmas."Feel that crisp autumn air and prepare for some spine-tingling fun as we reminisce about childhood Halloween shenanigans, from crafting seasonal posters to scoring the ultimate Disney sound book prize. Get ready for an event-packed October as we share our plans for Tully's Farm horror festival, where the thrills and chills of spooky mazes await. Our journey through memories and anticipation of what's to come is a testament to our love for all things horror, even if it took a while to embrace the Halloween spirit.Ever wondered what it's like to be the keeper of a chastity device key? We explore the hilarity of adult-themed communities, from surprise encounters in adventurous WhatsApp groups to the comedic chaos of "Locktober." Toss in some psychic reading skepticism and a notorious jam-related online video, and you've got a recipe for laughter and camaraderie. Don't miss out on our cheeky tales and musings, and join us in sharing your own stories for next week's antics.Support the showGet to know us more personally!Instagramwww.instagram.com/biggaypodcastEmailhello@mybiggaypodcast.comWebsitewww.MyBigGayPodcast.com
Skip the Queue is brought to you by Rubber Cheese, a digital agency that builds remarkable systems and websites for attractions that helps them increase their visitor numbers. Your hosts are Paul Marden and Oz Austwick.If you like what you hear, you can subscribe on iTunes, Spotify, and all the usual channels by searching Skip the Queue or visit our website rubbercheese.com/podcast.If you've enjoyed this podcast, please leave us a five star review, it really helps others find us. Show references: https://ukthemeparkawards.com/winners https://ukthemeparkawards.com/sponsorsWatch the UK Theme Park Awards 2024 on YouTube. Interviewed Guests:Paul Kelly: BALPPA Neil Poulter: Thorpe ParkRoss Ballinger: Drayton ManorDanielle Nicholls & Sophie Tickle: Alton TowersJennifer Howlett & Charlotte Peirce-Gregory: Legoland https://www.linkedin.com/in/sineadwaldron/Sinead Kimberley is the Senior Client Success Manager of Rubber Cheese and has a background in digital marketing, engagement software and all things client satisfaction. She guides clients through the various stages of their project, ensuring they have the information they need when they need it, as well as being the link between our developers and clients. https://x.com/MrTicketeerhttps://www.linkedin.com/in/andypovey/ Transcription: Paul Marden: Welcome to Skip the Queue, a podcast for people working in and working with visitor attractions. I'm your host, Paul Marden. Paul Marden: Hello and welcome to our first Skip the Queue Season Six Rubber Cheese get together. And we've got a corker. Today, there's four of us virtually together for our meetup after having been together yesterday in real life at the UK Theme Park Awards. So that's what we're going to talk about today. Paul Marden: We're going to talk a little bit about all the cool stuff that we saw yesterday at Thorpe park and enjoyed those theme park awards. But before we do that, should we do some introductions? Because I think everyone knows me and others, don't they? Oz Austwick: I'm here again. Paul Marden: You can sound more pleased. Everyone will love you. I'm thrilled. Oz Austwick: Absolutely thrilled. I couldn't wish to be anywhere nicer. Back in my office, not surrounded by monkeys. Paul Marden: We are also joined by Sinead Kimberley, who is the Senior Client Success Manager here at Rubber Cheese. Say hi, Sinead, and tell everyone what you do. Sinead Kimberley: Yeah, so I work with our clients and making sure they've got everything they need for the website and try and act as the voice of the client, essentially with our developers, so that what you ask for, they know how to make it technical. I can pass it back to you and make it all visible on the website and get everything done. Paul Marden: That you need the glue that binds us together. And today we are also joined by the probably I've got to prove this. I'm going to have to do the counting because I know that other people do count. I'm thinking Dom from Mary Rose for sure counts the number of times he's been there. Andy Povey: So am I. Paul Marden: But I think Andy Povey, roaving ticketing expert and gentleman of leisure, joins us today possibly as the most frequent guest on Skip the Queue. But today you get upgraded to co host status because you joined us. Andy Povey: Well, I feel honoured, Paul. Thank you. Oz Austwick: Is that actually an upgrade? Paul Marden: I definitely think co host is an upgrade. For sure. For sure. Oz Austwick: Speaking of co hosting, I'll just point out that also in this episode we have some interviews recorded at the awards, some with winners, some with prize givers. It'll make more sense in the YouTube version where you can actually see them. But if you're listening to this just as an audio podcast, you need to know that when the room gets noisy or you can hear people screaming in the background, that's a clip from Thorpe Park itself. So that's coming up throughout the podcast today. But as always we start with where we've been recently, other than Thorpe Park. Paul Marden: Why don't I start with you, Andy, because I know you've been on a few trips just recently with the family. Where's an attraction you've been to recently that sticks in your mind as being pretty cool? Andy Povey: So most recently was a couple of weekends ago. We took the kids Tower of London on a Sunday afternoon or a sunny Sunday afternoon. It's absolutely superb experience. We've been members of Historic Royal Palaces for six months, eight months, something like that. And it's one of those that just sits in the dusty corner of a drawer somewhere and didn't get used. So we dusted it off and said, "All right, let's go to the tower.". Brilliant experience, absolutely superb. The kids loved it and they really engaged with all of the interpretation there. And it's probably my third or fourth time of taking my ten year old girls there. And there's something new every time or something different every time that we haven't picked up on, we haven't seen so great experience. Paul Marden: I love it. And I love it going there with membership because I think when you go the first time, you get wowed by all the really big stuff, you know, the shiny jewels and all of that kind of good stuff. By the time you go there second or third time, you begin to notice some of the other stuff. There's some lovely little regimental museums hidden off in the corner. Aren't there lots to find in there? Which if you only go the once and you do it as a set piece, you don't necessarily notice it because you want to go and look at the court stuff. Andy Povey: Yeah, it's just the single visit. It's just a high pressure environment, isn't it? You want to catch everything, you want to get the best value out of it. I mean, we got there at 02:00 in the afternoon. I don't think I'd have done that if I was just paying for the single day entry. Paul Marden: What about you, Sinead? Where have you been recently? Sinead Kimberley: Mine is up north, Wyresdale Park. And it's just an outdoor park, so not kind of a ticket place that you need to kind of buy a ticket for. But I loved it because when went, it felt like we'd just gone into a normal park, but you felt like you were at some kind of holiday camp and you could hear kids playing in the water on the paddle boards and the kayaks and then you had all the dogs running around and then you had the hikers going past you to go up. And we did go for a walk. So went, I think it was maybe two and a half hours up to the peak and it was just lovely to see all the families as well on a sunny day. Rare up in Lancaster. No rain for once. Sinead Kimberley: And, yeah, it was just a lovely place to be. You had a really nice feel of just people having fun and enjoying nature, which I think is really lovely. So, yeah, that was my favourite recently, besides Thorpe park, obviously. Paul Marden: Oz, what about you, mate? Oz Austwick: Goodrich Castle. We took the family away and we did a couple of nights glamping. Amazing place. I won't go on too much about that, but went to Goodrich Castle, just outside Ross on Wye, and it's the first time I've ever been. It's amazing. So many of these castles are just a series of small walls and there's nothing to actually see, but it's a proper castle. There's a moat and a bridge over it to get in, and there are dungeons and towers. You can go up and it's. Yeah, it's fantastic. If you're in the area, definitely go check it out. It's well worth it. Paul Marden: Lovely for the kids, isn't it? Because I do think, whilst it can be a really lovely day out to go to some of these castle ruins, it can be pretty tough to imagine as a ten year old what it was actually like and what that low wall over there actually was. Oz Austwick: There's definitely a trade off, though, because the more castle there is, the more the older kids love it. But I've got a four year old as well and I'm much happier when it's a flat bit of grass with a couple of stones in it than when she's trying desperately to scale up a spiral staircase that has been worn down for 500 years. Paul Marden: We did the wall around Warwick Castle a few years ago and I was at a heightened state of anxiety, I think it's fair to say. Oz Austwick: Yeah. Paul Marden: So mine is the National Marine Aquarium, which is one of the Rubber Cheese clients down in Plymouth, and it's my first time of actually going and seeing it. And were there. We were coming back from a holiday in Cornwall, so it was a stop off on the way back and it was such a lovely stop off. My memory of it is we've been. We were avid watchers of the anime show that was on at Christmas last year. We really enjoyed watching that. Millie loves animals and she loved the turtle that was in the show last year. And went and I. We were there. It must have been ten minutes before closing time. They were trying to get people to leave. Paul Marden: We were one of the last families there, but were just sat on the floor, on the top floor looking into the tank where the turtle was. It was just so relaxing to just watch this turtle coming in and going out and the sharks that were in there. It was a really beautiful place. Lovely place. Really enjoyed that. So going from serene, calm aquarium, let's talk about Thorpe Park and the National Theme Park Awards. How was it for you guys? I hasten to add, I didn't make it Hyperia yesterday, which we did. Oz Austwick: Notice that Sinead and I did. Sinead Kimberley: My eyes were closed. Paul Marden: So what was Hyperia actually like then? Was it, was it as scary as I thought it might be? Oz Austwick: Yes. Sinead Kimberley: Yes. But also as incredible. Yeah. I was sad I didn't go on twice. Oz Austwick: You know, all of those feelings you get when you go on a roller coaster, that kind of the adrenaline and the sense of fear and all of that you get that gives you a bit of a buzz when you get off it. Imagine just dialing all of that up to eleven and. Yeah, mind blowing. It's too far, it's too big, it's too high, too scary. No, I'm glad I did it. Paul Marden: They did say yesterday, didn't they, when they were talking about the ride itself, that it was the tallest roller coaster in the UK, I think. But also the one with the most weightlessness in the UK, which I can't imagine how you measure it and I can't imagine what it's like. So can you put into words what the weightlessness was like? Oz Austwick: You know, if they've got these big over the shoulder harnesses that come down and you're in the seat and, you know you're safe, you know you're trapped and you're sitting with all your weight on a seat because that's just how you sit. Right? Paul Marden: Yeah. Oz Austwick: But for most of this ride, you're not. You're somewhere in between the two. You're not sitting and you're not pushed up against the harness, you're just being flung around constantly. Sinead Kimberley: Yeah, yeah, it is weird. I think I didn't notice when the harness thing you get is different to the normal one, so you don't have that big thing pushing your shoulders back. It just goes around your waist and then there's like a bar you can hold in front. It is safe, we can confirm because we are here, but it did make you feel like you weren't quite as stuck to something as normal. And then add to that you were moving faster, and you were dropping from higher heights. You realise that you were still falling, which you don't normally do on a roller coaster. Normally you realise you're falling and then you're done, whereas this, you realise you're falling. You start to be like, okay, but I'm still safe. And then you maybe open your eyes and you look around this I couldn't. Sinead Kimberley: I carried on realising I was falling a lot longer. You really felt it in your body. Oz Austwick: That first peak where you go and it starts to move, and then it literally, it takes you up and you're lying backwards and you're going up, and you can just about see the track ahead of you up there. And then you get to the top, and it's such a tight curve that as you drop, you can't see the track, and you just drop. Yeah. Sinead Kimberley: I loved it, though. Paul Marden: Should we go back to the podcast and move away from therapy session? Oz Austwick: Yeah, we can come back to therapy later, though, right? Because I think I need it. Paul Marden: So yesterday was the third year that we've sponsored one of the awards, so it was the third time I've been to the awards. Third time it was in real life, fifth year of running, and it was just lovely, wasn't it? It was such a nice industry get together. I think you were commenting this morning, Andy, on LinkedIn, about the networking effect of it. Andy Povey: Yeah. The industry we're in is a very physical, actual industry. People go to attractions because they want to do something so well. Virtual is great, and digital is great, obviously. I mean, it's what I've been doing for a very long time. There's nothing that really gets to the heart of what this industry is all about better than the face to face physical interactions. And that was a real sort of epiphany away, I think I said on a message to someone the other day, yesterday, that's just really important. It was the first event I've been to since May. Very good. Oz Austwick: Good. I thought it was a real eye opener how you kind of going there as an exhibitor. And it was my first time. I kind of assumed that I'd stand next to a stall and people would come over and I'd try and talk to them, and all they'd want was whatever free merch I'd have on this. But it wasn't like that. It was like being in a big room with a bunch of people who were friends and they were happy you were there, too, and it was just a really lovely experience. It didn't feel like a corporate trade show type event, which is exactly what I was expecting. Paul Marden: And it is fiercely competitive. So everybody does want to win in the categories they're in. Oz Austwick: Yes. But Alton Towers wins them all. Paul Marden: Right, so I am here with Sophie and Danielle from Alton Towers. It's been a successful day for you guys, hasn't it? Did you manage to count the number of awards or did you just lose count? Danielle Nicholls: I think it was a level, maybe round and fair. Paul Marden: Definitely double figures. Definitely double figures. We saw both of you going up and down the stage. Up and down the stage. Highlight, which was the one for you, Danielle, that you really appreciated. Danielle Nicholls: You know, what it was between two. So super proud of everything we did with Nemesis. Like Nemesis Reborn has been such a momentous campaign throughout. Paul Marden: Yeah. Danielle Nicholls: And so I'm super proud of that one. But for me, I think the one that has my heart in, it's our community award. So I was super proud to play silver for that one. Paul Marden: It was brilliant to get you up on the stage, bring the band back together again with you and Ross up there. And Sophie, what about you? What was the biggest highlight for you? Sophie Tickle: So I was really keen for the Best Marketing Campaign purely because I know how hard our team works on it. So I was really kind of brutal. And the nemesis story is just incredible. So we felt like that was. That was a really good win for us. And then best ride storytelling is always a nice one just because we feel like it just captures everything. The resources. Paul Marden: I really enjoyed watching when we had the. ad campaigns that came on and we saw everything that everyone had produced and you could see the storytelling that goes into something like nemesis reborn. And then the room was just quiet at the end of it because were all just captured by all of these videos. Danielle Nicholls: Everyone could have won that one, genuinely. But we're so proud. Like, Alton is such a lovely, friendly community in itself. Like, there's hundreds of people that work all the towers. Like, you can never just put it down to one person. It's such a big team effort. Everyone pulls together for everything. So, like, Alton After Dark winning golf best of event, that was amazing as well. I'm super proud of that one. Paul Marden: Everyone loves an after dark event, don't they? Yeah, it's awesome. Awesome. Danielle Nicholls: They do. Paul Marden: Thank you for joining me, ladies. It's been really good to talk to you all. Cheers. So, yes, it is fair to say that Alton Towers did make a lot of trips onto the stage. Danielle and her yellow jacket was seen going up on stage quite a lot yesterday. But there's a real diversity of different attractions that were nominated. So I think they said more than 30, nearly 40. I think it was attractions that were nominated. 20 attractions overall. Yeah, 20 attractions overall. One prizes. There was one that was really close to my heart. Brean Theme Park. It was where my granddad and my dad played golf 45 years ago. I would go to Brean Leisure Park, as it was then, and go down helter skelter all the time. So to see that up on the awards for a nomination was really lovely. Paul Marden: And there's quite a few other smaller attractions like that got nominated. Talk a little bit about the categories or the memories that we got yesterday that stuck in our minds. Andy, was there a category for you that you were really impressed by? Andy Povey: Yeah, there was. For me, it was the Accessibility initiative the Katapult sponsored. Obviously, Merlin were very heavily represented in the nominations for that category. I think there were five out of the eight nominations were for either for Merlin Parks or things that Merlin were doing as a bigger or as a cross group activity. But there were also some really quite simple things from much smaller parks. So noticeably there was a Camel Creek, again, down in deepest, darkest Cornwall, who were nominated for their changing places facility. And that just really brought home to me. Yes, it's important that Merlin, as the largest operator in the country, are leading the way and they've got the resources to put behind this and all that kind of stuff. But it's not just about doing those big things. Andy Povey: Small things can make a difference and can make a really significant difference. And that's really key to. Was one of the key messages in the industry, I think. Paul Marden: Yeah, I thought it was an interesting category. First time that it appeared in the awards, as you say, Katapult sponsored it, and it was quite a nice match between Katapult and that category because they've been doing quite a lot of work in designing spaces and attractions that are more accessible to people. So that was really. It was quite a nice match between sponsor and category. And as you say, there was some really lovely stories to be told around. What was there? I loved there was a Merlin initiative where they were taking the characters and the stories of the parks out to hospitals and places where they were terminally ill children, which there's lots of stories that have existed for a long time of kids being taken to the parks themselves. Paul Marden: But what about when they can't make it to the park and can you bring the magic of the park to them? I thought that was a really lovely idea. Andy Povey: Magic tour, they call that. And it's actually run by the Merlin charity, Merlin's Magic Wand. Paul Marden: Yeah. It's a cracking idea, isn't it? Yeah. But then you take it down to the changing places toilets and the initiatives to make places and make it clear what the accessibility of the place actually is, because we know that's really important, that people that have accessibility needs will not go to new places if they're not completely sure that it is accessible to them. And having a space on your website and winning an award, or even being shortlisted for an award for having that information on your website, I think is amazing. It's a cracking idea and there's so much that the sector is doing that has opened my eyes just in the last year, from the M&H show that were at six months ago to just seeing some of the stuff yesterday, thought it was brilliant. Oz Austwick: Shall we have another interview from the awards? Paul caught up with another Paul. Paul Kelly from BALPPA. Paul Marden: So, Paul, you've just come from the first session of giving out awards and you on stage giving out bridge award. Paul Kelly: I was doing the best theme park for toddlers, both in the small category. And the large category. Paul Marden: And who was winning? Paul Kelly: Well, unsurprisingly, I think it's not the first time they've won small categories won by Paulton's Park. And considering the amount of investment they've done, and I'm not surprised, they also won the large as well. So, really good taking off. Paul Marden: It is, yeah. We were talking on our table that they've been doing this now for a very long time, able to get up on stage and win awards. Still, they must really be investing in what they're doing. Paul Kelly: Continuous investments. I mean, if you get a chance like I do, look behind the scenes, they're investing infrastructure, their staff, for how they run the park, but think of ten years ahead. So, yeah, incredible family, incredible journey. So, yeah, good luck. Paul Marden: Behind the scenes, Pickworld must be quite the operation. Paul Kelly: Yeah. I mean, again, well, one of the things they've done, although it is photographers, they do very well in bandits now, builds them on that because they have invested in trying. I don't think they might be saying, "They do very well in bandits now," builds them on that because they have invested in trying. I don't think they might be saying. Paul Marden: That it is just about having. Paul Kelly: Well, but, yeah, paddlings are well deserved. Paul Marden: Amazing. Well done. Thank you. Paul Kelly: Yeah, no problem. Paul Marden: Sinead, what about you? What was the category that jumped out to you? Sinead Kimberley: Yeah, so for me, I think it was the sustainability, partly because it's something that I am kind of working on, looking at a lot at the minute with clients and also a thing that I've been kind of getting myself up to speed on within the industry, because I think everyone talks about sustainability, but often it will be either a really big initiative or it's something that's just what everybody else is doing. So, you know, more recyclable packaging or that kind of thing. And I really loved. There was a roller coaster, I think it was Greenwoods, was it, Andy? Andy Povey: Yes. Sinead Kimberley: They had like a people powered or counterbalanced roller coaster. And I was sat on a table and kind of asked what that was. And the person next to me explained that it doesn't use electricity, it just uses people. So as you're going up, you're powering people, going around the roller coaster, essentially. And it just sounds incredible. I've never heard of anything like that before. And I was also talking to some of the people about the sustainability of a website and something that we don't think about. You think about how many clicks to get tickets sold or to get you to see the video or whatever, but you don't necessarily think about the server powering every single click, empowering every single page view. Sinead Kimberley: And so to kind of see how different places have worked with sustainability, whether it's the reusable cups or roller coaster that's literally using people to power it and then enjoy it at the same time, was really interesting to kind of complete my picture of what sustainability looks like in the industry and all the different things it could touch on from the website to literally on the park itself. And when the parks are by nature not going to be the most, you know, energy efficient, maybe because you've got these massive roller coasters you need to power safely. It's really interesting to see that the small things, like you mentioned, Andy, with accessibility, the small things really can altogether make a really big impact on how you as an organisation can be more sustainable. Sinead Kimberley: So, yeah, that was really eye opening, I think, seeing those different nominees. Paul Marden: Yeah, absolutely. Oz Austwick: I think the one that won it as well is a lovely example of however much you ask people to do something because it's the right thing to do. If you actually make it in their interests to do it, suddenly it becomes much more viable. So you can. Everyone's got recycling bins, but if you've got this reverse vending machine where you put your empty plastic bottles in and you get something back out of that, then clearly people are going to do. If you were there with your kids, they're going to be collecting bottles they find lying around and making sure they go in the right bin because they get something. Paul Marden: And it wasn't just a little something, was it? It wasn't just a couple of tokens. You could win some pretty amazing prizes out of it. Oz Austwick: Absolutely. Yeah. Andy Povey: Yeah. I was at the Latitude Festival last year and they were charging a temp deposit on every waxed paper cup. And the number of kids running around collecting huge stacks of these cups. Oz Austwick: Yeah. Andy Povey: And they were even going into the bins and taking them out of the bins, which I'm not sure was the real driver behind, but they were making. It must have been hundreds of pounds. Oz Austwick: Absolutely. It was the same. I used to go to the rugby quite a lot before my rugby team disappeared. And they would charge a one pound deposit on plastic reusable cups and you could either keep it as a one pound cup or give it back and get your pound back. And most people just. They'd have a few beers and they'd leave them. But at the end of the match, kids, just like you say, would be running around collecting these and they'd be walking away with 20, 30 quid's worth of cups. You know, what an amazing thing for the kids to do. Just makes it worth their while, doesn't it? Paul Marden: So I'm here with Jennifer and Charlotte from Legoland. So you've been at the awards today with us. How's it been? Was it a successful day for you guys? Jennifer Howlett: Pretty successful, yeah. A few wins across the category. Paul Marden: Yeah. So what. What categories did you. Did you get awards for? Charlotte Peirce-Gregory: So we've got new band, which I was Ninja tonight, which is really exciting. That was our summer first year. Jennifer Howlett: We've done it as well. So it's really exciting to see that. Paul Marden: So I love Ninjago. The ride itself. What's the event all about? Charlotte Peirce-Gregory: So, literally, we had loads of different things going on. We had dragons, drumsy, we had loads of different entertainments. We had characters, meet and greets, and were new characters, which was really exciting. Aaron and Sora. So, yes, that was great. And that finished quite long ago. Sarah's missing to see that. Paul Marden: Excellent, excellent and highlight of the day for you guys. What did you see that has really got you excited? Charlotte Peirce-Gregory: Do you know what, thing is for me with the map? I look after all things catholic events and stuff, and that was quite nice that you see. Paul Marden: It's funny because everyone was laughing a little bit. I know award for the maps, but actually, the maps and the attraction is so important. It is, it is. If you walk in and you don't get a map, it's like, How do you figure out where you're going, you're always going and looking at the map on the wall instead of having it in your hand. So, yeah, it's a bit of a laugh, but actually I think it's a really important. Yeah. Lovely to meet you guys. Thank you for joining us. Cheers. Paul Marden: So, Oz, tell us what was the standout moment for you yesterday? Oz Austwick: I thought it was really lovely to see in amongst all of these theme parks and massive organisations getting up there to win awards, that there was an award specifically for content creator of the year, that these people are out there producing content that literally markets and drives visitors to these attractions to go on these rides and they were actually recognised a change. And I thought that was both a lovely thing as a concept, but also as a YouTuber myself, within a very small and specific niche, it was really nice to get to chat to some other YouTubers from an equally small niche and spend a bit of time with them. I thought it was really. It was lovely. So I just want to shout out to Andy from Coaster Crazy and Digital Daniel, lovely people. Sinead Kimberley: Thank you, Andy, for helping me on the roller coaster as well. It was needed. Paul Marden: You were with those influencers, weren't you, during the awards itself? I think. I think it's a bit of a challenge having a daytime awards, that it can be a bit of a struggle to get some life out of the audience. And George, the compare does graft to try and get us into the mood. But I've noticed every year I've been there that if you sit anywhere near the influencers, that's usually the naughty table with lots going on. Sinead Kimberley: They were very well behaved. Oz Austwick: Because you were sat with them at the award. We went with them round the park later and it was lovely to see people visiting the park, recognizing them and coming up to say hi and that this is genuinely a thing that really works. Yeah, I just thought it was. It was great. Let's recognize these guys because I doubt any of them are making a full time living out of this. They're doing it in their own time because they love her. So if you're. If you're from a theme park, support them a little bit more, get them in there, let them. Let them do this stuff because it does benefit you. Paul Marden: You say they're not making a full time living. I can't remember what the couple are, Andy, who have every year at theme park awards, they're never there to collect their award because they're always somewhere in Florida or California, because September is a perfect time for them to go and do all the recordings. I guess parks are a little bit quiet. Weather's still good. Oz Austwick: Yeah, but that's the thing. Maybe they go in then because it's cheaper. Paul Marden: Yeah. Still having a good time recording to make a good living.Oz Austwick: You can make a good living from social media, but it's pretty rare. Paul Marden: So I am going to claim. Yeah. Executive prerogative and I'm going to take two memories and talk about them. Oz Austwick: That is definitely cheating. Paul Marden: So I'm going to talk first about the. The main awards, the best theme park, which, strangely, last year were at Chessington, won by Chessington. This year were at Thorpe park, won by Thorpe park. Oz Austwick: What are you saying? Paul Marden: I don't know. I don't know. But what I am. I guess what I am saying was what I really loved was the recognition of the whole thought pop team. Now, it wasn't the whole thought pub team because that would probably be hundreds of people and the stage wouldn't take it, but we had a little kind of troop of different people from across the park come and collect the award and I just. I really liked that. I thought that was a lovely thing to see those people being recognized. Neil Poulter: And that's exactly. It's a team effort, there's no doubt about it. Obviously, many people in the room, but the people behind the scenes as well. And we've had a fantastic year. It's been a journey. You don't just arrive at winning best theme park and best new attraction. It's a journey that we've been on for the last three and a half years. We haven't previously won that award, so I think it's testament to where we've come from, but hopefully where we're going as well. So, super excited. Paul Marden: Highlight for you? Neil Poulter: I think, obviously, Best Theme Park. I think winning the big one is something that, you know, is. Feels like new territory for us, but I think, you know, we deserve our seat at the table. Neil Poulter: But, you know, across the awards, you know, best new attraction, obviously, for Hyperia is that also some entertainment in terms of stitches and Friday nights, which we're so proud of, you know, a fantastic maze. The team that do our social, which, again, you know, allows us to speak with our audience, our most passionate audience and really, you know, them winning the gold was also a huge highlight for me as well. Paul Marden: Awesome. So time for some food and then some fun after Hyperia. And here's some screaming. Neil Poulter: Yeah, absolutely. Can't wait to ride it. I actually wrote it yesterday for about only the 6th time and I went on the back. It was amazing. But, yeah, hoping people that haven't even experienced it yet will get a chance to. And if people have, which I'm sure many have, they will come back and enjoy it. And the sun's shining, so what better time to be at the Thorpe Park? Paul Marden: So congratulations, Neil. Thank you for talking. Neil Poulter: Thank you very much. You're welcome. Paul Marden: But then the other memory for me was our own award. We sponsor the Social Media Content Category and I nearly missed my queue. I was quite happy sitting there listening to all of these parks being nominated, thinking, well, that's interesting. Well, that sounded very good. And then I realized it was me and I was supposed to get on stage and hand the award out, so there's a little rush to the stage. But what I really liked, it was lovely to hand over the gold award to Thorpe Park, meet the social media team there. Paul Marden: But it was also really nice because it was an opportunity to meet a couple more Skip the Queue alumni, Danielle and Ross, they used to work together at Drayton Manor and as we've already said, Danielle is now at Thorpe Towers and was up and down like a fiddler's elbow on the staircase yesterday. Oz Austwick: She's a full time award collector. Paul Marden: But it was lovely to get the band back together again up on stage. Handsome. Some bronze and silver awards out to Ross and Danielle. I really enjoyed that. It was just nice. It's really nice because Kelly first met them at the awards three years ago. Again, she was sat on the naughty table at the back with the two of them making lots of noise and enjoying themselves. But just, we got immediately the sense of enjoyment and fun that the two of them had and that they bring to the work that they do. And it was lovely to see that recognised yesterday on stage because we have nothing to do as sponsors of the award, we have nothing to do with choosing who the winners actually are as a team of esteemed judges. And then the public vote also counted this time. Paul Marden: But, yeah, to see, to see the growth of people that have been on the podcast, their careers growing, and then seeing them back on stage again yesterday, that was really lovely. I enjoyed that. Paul Marden: It's a bit weird, isn't it, because the awards are in the daytime, it's. All a little bit where we can. You always come and you bring the energy to the room, don't you? Yes. We got the band back together up on the stage with you and Danielle. Ross Ballinger: Yeah. Paul Marden: Both in the social media category. So that was nice. To see what have you got in your hands at the moment? Ross Ballinger: I've actually just got pleasure Wood Hills award because I'm representing them today as well as part of the luping UK contingency. Paul Marden: Okay, so what did they win? Ross Ballinger: They got bronze for Best Theme Park. Paul Marden: Oh, wow. Ross Ballinger: Which they have overhauled their map this year, which is really fantastic. So we're getting too excited never to excited about. Paul Marden: No. Ross Ballinger: But maps are a great addition to any park. Paul Marden: Do you know when you walk in the gates and you don't get the map and it's like, oh, people have got it. Yeah. People will complain. Absolutely. And everyone loves a map. Ross Ballinger: They take a lot of. It's no easy task. They can take six to twelve months to get a really, you know, popping man. Yeah, yeah. And it's obviously all down to the illustrators and everything like that. Paul Marden: And the life of the park as well, because you're telling stories. Andy Povey: Oh, yeah. Ross Ballinger: You've got to bring the paper to life. Paul Marden: So highlight for today for you. Ross Ballinger: Highlight, obviously, being on the show, on stage, being on stage for the social media category. Close to my heart, that kind of category. I love socials. I love doing what we do on socials. And it's a big core team for Drayton Manor. Paul Marden: Is it really? Ross Ballinger: It's the whole team that really. It doesn't really channel itself into one person. We have a great executive, Morgan McHenry, that looks after the top end of all the social media. So she's the goddess that orchestrates it all. But she will be. She will say that it's not just her, but everyone just contributed to making sure our social media channels are like, just absolutely fantastic and great for people to watch. Paul Marden: I think they're most authentic, aren't they? When you get everybody involved all across the park, all the people telling their little stories and showcasing what party's like. Ross Ballinger: That's what it's all about. A lot of other departments do their job. They think they're just having fun on TikTok again. But we're not, you know, we're really like behind the scenes thinking of content, going out, filming the content, you know, putting the content together, scheduling it to go out. Paul Marden: It doesn't just happen by itself. Ross Ballinger: It doesn't happen. Paul Marden: You don't just walk out with a phone and get yourself a smash hit video that just goes viral. Ross Ballinger: Well, the more fun we have, the more engaging it is. So it's our job to be fun. You have fun. Paul Marden: It's a tough life. Right. Lovely. See you again. Bringing the alumni back together again. Ross Ballinger: Great. Thank you. Thank you. Paul Marden: So that was the UK theme park awards yesterday, but that's not the only thing happening in the industry at the moment, is it, Andy? Something big and important is happening next week. Andy Povey: You mean my trip to Amsterdam? Paul Marden: Well, I was thinking more about the IAAPA conference that was at Amsterdam as opposed to your particular trip to the. Andy Povey: Yeah, so it's the 20th 30th instance of the IAAPA Europe show, IAAPA Europe Expo, this time taking place in the RAI at Amsterdam, or in Amsterdam from Tuesday to Thursday next week. Lots of great stuff, lots of great people. All about the attractions industry. There might be an occasional beer or two while we're there on the short. Paul Marden: I think it is important to note for Mrs. Povey, if she actually does listen in, that this is an important work event and there will be lots of networking. And if you're not networking, you're not working. We know that. However, it is also worth mentioning that on numerous occasions yesterday I heard you talking to people about the after parties that you were planning to attend. And yeah, it's a busy social calendar that you've got signed up to next week. Andy Povey: It certainly is. I think I might need to cut down on the pre party work to give time for the after party to take the best. Paul Marden: So you're going to enjoy yourself and do lots of important networking next week. But I guess the call to action for listeners today is if you are planning on being at IAAPA next week, hunt down Andy. He's a tough guy to miss and everybody knows him. So go and find him, have a chat with him and enjoy yourselves in IAAPA and we will be back in two weeks time. Thank you very much guys. It's been delightful having a foursome as co hosts and I think we get to do this again. Oz Austwick: I quite like this. We should do this more often. Paul Marden: Absolutely. Paul Marden: Thanks for listening to Skip the Queue. If you've enjoyed this podcast, please leave us a five star review. It really helps others find us. And remember to follow us on Twitter for your chance to win the books that have been mentioned. Skip The Queue is brought to you by Rubber Cheese, a digital agency that builds remarkable systems and websites for attractions that helps them increase their visitor numbers. You can find show notes and transcriptions from this episode and more over on our website, rubbercheese.com/podcast. The 2024 Visitor Attraction Website Survey is now LIVE! Help the entire sector:Dive into groundbreaking benchmarks for the industryGain a better understanding of how to achieve the highest conversion ratesExplore the "why" behind visitor attraction site performanceLearn the impact of website optimisation and visitor engagement on conversion ratesUncover key steps to enhance user experience for greater conversionsFill in your data now (opens in new tab)
Cet été nous avons visité Europa Park, Thorpe Park, Futuroscope, Aquascope, Phantasialand, Walibi Belgium et Diggerland, rien que ça! Et nous vous proposons nos reviews des nouveautés de chaque parc! Au programme : - Voltron Nevera - Powered by Rimac (lien vers la video time-lapse de la station!) - Hyperia - Chasseurs de Tornades - Aquascope - Hotel Station Cosmos - Hotel Ecolodgee - Des pelleteuses et plateformes de déménagement - Et quelques autres trucs encore Merci pour votre écoute!
Mitch has been on some MONSTER trips. This trip report show includes trips to Kennywood, Cedar Point, and Michigan's Adventure. It also includes his trip to London to visit Thorpe Park to ride Hyperia, as well as see Frozen and Taylor Swift's Eras Tour. Internet stuff: solo.to/coastercuzzies --- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/coastercuzzies/support
The gang review the start of season defeat to Fleetwood. Bruce and Youngy talk about their time on the west coast. Mike is heading to Thorpe Park and Alex is in the garden. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
The episode highlights Jack's success in managing a tricky meal, and addresses challenges like coping with hypos in the summer heat. Mike and Jack discuss culinary adventures and practical tips, from adjusting Lantus dosage to staying hydrated. Mike is off work this week and he has been busy!! Find out in this episode! Also about a free access card to places like Merlin's Thorpe Park. Listener stories, including better time-in-range percentages and switching to insulin pumps, demonstrate the diabetes community's resilience. Upcoming plans, like a trip to Thorpe Park, show their proactive approach to managing diabetes. This episode emphasizes community support and valuable insights into the highs and lows of living with type 1 diabetes. 00:00 - Intro 01:13 - Chit chat 01:25 - Jack's Wins and Struggles 06:40 - Mike's Wins and Struggles 08:16 - Get a free access pass for Merlin 09:35 - Come see us in London 12:31 - Whats your average 14:32 - Did somebody say Just Food? 25:39 - Listener Wins Join the conversation and share your stories with the T1D community. Don't forget to rate, review, and subscribe to help others find the podcast. Follow The Podcast https://www.instagram.com/wearet1d Follow Mike https://www.instagram.com/t1d_mike Follow Jack https://www.instagram.com/t1d_jack Share your stories at https://wearet1d.com New episodes are released every Sunday & Wednesday PS. If you would like to be a guest on the podcast, please go to the website https://wearet1d.com/guest-booking and fill out the form.
Der Park: Thorpe Park Die Bahnen: Hyperia Colossus Stealth Walking Dead - the Ride Nemesis Inferno Saw - the Ride
To kick off the show, Joe tries to trick David by being on a Insta Live at the same time as recording the pod. That soon falls flat though as David knew anyway. In spite of their discomfort at being ‘live', they plough on regardless and let's just say, things don't go smoothly. But then they get one of the viewers to join them who saves the days with some wonderful words of encouragement - thanks Emma! Then Joe tells David about his magical day at the ceremony to award Sue Johnston the Freedom Of The City Of Liverpool and also explains why he's not going to Thorpe Park today to ride the rollercoasters. David then puts a call-out to the Patreons to see who's been on The Tower Of Power waterslide in Tenerife. After a short wait there are plenty of Chatabiscuits joining them - so let the rollercoaster club commence! FOR ALL THINGS CHATABIX'Y FOLLOW/SUBSCRIBE/CONTACT: You Tube: https://www.youtube.com/@chatabixpodcast Twitter: https://twitter.com/chatabix1 Insta: https://www.instagram.com/chatabixpodcast/ Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/chatabix Merch: https://chatabixshop.com/ Contact us: chatabix@yahoo.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
Joe's found out that his computer viewing settings are all wrong and David's getting frustrated with him. But once they realise that's a very boring subject for the pod, they move on to talking about Joe's upcoming rollercoaster ride. Much more exciting! He's booked a ticket for Thorpe Park's new Hyperia ride, which is the UK's tallest rollercoaster. So he's pretty nervous already and might be regretting that he's decided to do it on is own? Nail-biting stuff! FOR ALL THINGS CHATABIX'Y FOLLOW/SUBSCRIBE/CONTACT: You Tube: https://www.youtube.com/@chatabixpodcast Twitter: https://twitter.com/chatabix1 Insta: https://www.instagram.com/chatabixpodcast/ Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/chatabix Merch: https://chatabixshop.com/ Contact us: chatabix@yahoo.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
This week, Mike and EB discuss explore the impact of annual passes on park revenue and guest experience, as well as the rise of line-skipping services and upcharges. They also discuss the potential drawbacks of having a large number of passholders and the dissatisfaction that can arise among them. In addition, they touch on the plans for the redevelopment of Six Flags New Orleans, the selling roller coaster track pieces for charity, the preview center for Universal's Epic Universe, the reopening of Hyperia at Thorpe Park, and the escape of camels at Cedar Point. EB discusses his upcoming trip to five theme parks and tells us which parks didn't make the cut!
Join Nick Hutson and special guest Adam for an adrenaline-pumping episode of ERT as they dive into the excitement of Hyperia's grand opening day at Thorpe Park! In this episode, the duo shares firsthand experiences, breaking down every twist, turn, and drop of this highly anticipated roller coaster. But the thrill doesn't stop there. Nick and Adam also take a deep dive into Europa Park's Voltron, comparing its unique elements and overall ride experience with Hyperia. From innovative ride technology to theming and guest reactions, they leave no stone unturned in this roller coaster showdown.
Nick sits down with Robert to review Hyperia - the new record breaking rollercoaster at Thorpe Park and Robert discusses his first time EVER at Disneyland Paris. You'll also hear a short interview with Scott O'Neil - the new CEO of Merlin Entertainment.
In this episode, we catch up on Hyperia's opening day (Thorpe Park) and all the latest attraction news from around the world!
Join us this week as we talk all things HYPERIA at Thorpe Park! We also go through all the latest news from around the world.
Skip the Queue is brought to you by Rubber Cheese, a digital agency that builds remarkable systems and websites for attractions that helps them increase their visitor numbers. Your host is Kelly Molson, Founder of Rubber Cheese.Download the Rubber Cheese 2023 Visitor Attraction Website Report - the annual benchmark statistics for the attractions sector.If you like what you hear, you can subscribe on iTunes, Spotify, and all the usual channels by searching Skip the Queue or visit our website rubbercheese.com/podcast.If you've enjoyed this podcast, please leave us a five star review, it really helps others find us. And remember to follow us on Twitter for your chance to win the books that have been mentioned in this podcastCompetition ends on 17th April 2024. The winner will be contacted via Twitter. Show references: https://carbonsix.digital/https://www.linkedin.com/in/pmarden/Paul Marden is the Founder and Managing Director of Carbon Six Digital and the CEO of Rubber Cheese. He is an Umbraco Certified Master who likes to think outside the box, often coming up with creative technical solutions that clients didn't know were possible. Paul oversees business development and technical delivery, specialising in Microsoft technologies including Umbraco CMS, ASP.NET, C#, WebApi, and SQL Server. He's worked in the industry since 1999 and has vast experience of managing and delivering the technical architecture for both agencies and client side projects of all shapes and sizes. Paul is an advocate for solid project delivery and has a BCS Foundation Certificate in Agile. https://www.rubbercheese.com/https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellymolson/Kelly Molson is the Founder of Rubber Cheese, a user focused web design and development agency for the attraction sector. Digital partners to Eureka! The National Children's Museum, Pensthorpe, National Parks UK, Holkham, Visit Cambridge and The National Marine Aquarium.Kelly regularly delivers workshops and presentations on sector focused topics at national conferences and attraction sector organisations including ASVA, ALVA, The Ticketing Professionals Conference and the Museum + Heritage Show.As host of the popular Skip the Queue Podcast for people working in or working with visitor attractions, she speaks with inspiring industry experts who share their knowledge of what really makes an attraction successful.Recent trustee of The Museum of the Broads. Our guests:Paul Wright from Made by WagAndy Povey from ConviousLooking forward to 2023: Key digital trends attractions shouldn't miss out onBernard Donoghue from ALVASeason finale, with Bernard Donoghue!David Hingley from BOP ConsultingVisitor Experience restructure at Tate, with David HingleyPaul Griffiths from Painshill ParkThe transformation of Painshill Park, with Paul Griffiths, Director of PainshillRoss Ballinger from Drayton ManorThe importance of building a great social community and process behind rebranding a 70 year old attractionDanielle Nicholls from Alton TowersThe importance of building a great social community and process behind rebranding a 70 year old attractionRachel Mackay from Hampton Court PalaceThe importance of Sector Cooperation with Carlton Gajadhar and Rachel MackaySophie from Eureka! The National Children's MuseumHow to write a website brief that agencies will thank you for, with Sophie BallingerElizabeth McKay, CEO of the London Transport MuseumDeveloping a culture of innovation, with Elizabeth McKaySimon Addison from The Roman BathsHow introducing variable pricing increased revenue by 2.3 million, with Simon AddisonDominic Jones from The Mary Rose and Portsmouth Historic DockyardAttraction partnerships and rivalries, with Dominic Jones Transcription: Kelly Molson: Welcome to Skip the Queue, a podcast for people working in or working with visitor attractions.Paul Marden: On today's episode, I'm joined by my co host, Kelly Molson, founder of Rubber Cheese, as well as a group of returning guests to the podcast. This is Kelly's last episode as the host of Skip the Queue as she's leaving rubber cheese after 21 fantastic years of the agency. Today we'll be turning the tables on Kelly as the guests ask her the icebreaker questions. We'll also be looking back at the impact the podcast has had as some of our guests share their experiences of appearing on the podcast with Kelly.Kelly Molson: If you like what you hear, subscribe on all the usual channels by searching Skip the Queue.Paul Marden: So, how you doing?Kelly Molson: I feel slightly. I feel slightly apprehensive. You just said, like, are you ready? Have you got your tissues ready? Like I have. I'm prepared.Paul Marden: Good. So, listeners, today is a big episode, as well as being on 99th episode is also Kelly's last episode as the Skip the Queue host. Yeah. So many of you will know that after 21 years heading up Rubber Cheese, Kelly has decided to spread her wings and move on to pastures new. Paul Marden: And while this is news from many of the listeners, I've had a few months to prepare for this. So I've been thinking long and hard about this episode of what can I do? And I thought it'd be nice to look back at some of your best bits, but I didn't feel like I should do that on my own. I actually thought the best way of looking back at your best bits are to bring your best bits back to us. So I'm just gonna admit a load of people that want to join the edge.Kelly Molson: Oh, no.Paul Marden: So we have got a host of po face and audience members that are going to join us today.Kelly Molson: I'm going to cry already.Paul Marden: Excellent. I've done my job to start with straight away, so everyone's joined us for a virtual leaving party. So I hope you've got your whatsits in a bowl and your cheese and pineapple ready for you as we look back over some of your best bits and enjoy a Skip the Queue episode at its best. And so, for those of you that are listening and not watching, first of all, where have you been? These aren't facestrail radio. You should be subscribing on YouTube and watch these lovely people. But if you're listening, let me introduce you to the host of people that are joining us. We've got Andy Povey from Convious. We've got Bernard Donoghue from ALVA. We've got David Hingley from BOP Consulting. We've got Rachel Mackay from Hampton Court Palace. Sophie Ballinger from Eureka!Kelly Molson: You're supposed to be on holiday.Paul Marden: Sophie from Eureka! The National Children's Museum. We've got Ross Ballinger from Drayton Manor. We've got Dominic Jones from the Mary Rose. And we've also been joined by some of your lovely Rubber Cheese colleagues that wanted to say hi and goodbye.Kelly Molson: Look at everyone's beautiful faces. Oh, God.Paul Marden: And the tissues are going already.Kelly Molson: Do you know what? Just before I came on, I was like, I'm not going to cry. I am completely in control of today. If it was yesterday, I would have cried, but I'm completely in control today. I am not in control at all.Paul Marden: So, long time listeners will know that we always start off with an icebreaker question. And Kelly never tells the guests what the icebreaker question is in advance. So I'm afraid, Kelly, it's your turn. Bernard, you're going to kick off for us today. Would you like to ask Kelly your icebreaker question? Bernard Donoghue: Thank you. Claudia Winkleman. I'm delighted to join this episode of The Traitors. Paul Marden: Have you got the fringe to be Claudia? I'm sorry.Kelly Molson: No, we have not.Bernard Donoghue: Kelly, it's World Book day tomorrow. You've received short notice. What book do you go as to work, please?Kelly Molson: Oh, I would. I'd have to take one of my daughter's books. So she has got this book called Oh, no, George. And it's about an incredibly naughty dog with. He's a ginger dog with a very long nose. I would have to dress up as George because he doesn't do himself any favours. He hopes that he's going to be good, but he's just. He can't cope with being good and he eats all the cake and he knocks over all the tulips in the house and he's incredibly lovable, but incredibly naughty. So definitely George. That's me. Right.Bernard Donoghue: It's a lovely insight into your personality. Paul Marden: Perfect. Kelly Molson: Great question. Paul Marden: It is a great question. I hope you're ready for a few more because we've got some of these lined up for you. So the next. The next person that's going to join us, unfortunately couldn't be here today, so they sent me a little message that we'll play now.Paul Wright: Hi, Kelly. Remember me? It's Wag here.Kelly Molson: This is my old co founder.Paul Wright: My question to you. If every time someone clicked on a website and it made a sound. What noise would you want it to make?Kelly Molson: Oh, it has to be a big old fart noise, right? A real big wet one, like a whoopee cushion. Fart noise, please. Thank you.Paul Marden: So, Mrs. Marden, over breakfast this morning, as were talking through what I was going to talk about, said, oh, she's just going to say wet fart, surely.Kelly Molson: Absolutely.Paul Marden: She knows you so well.Kelly Molson: She's my level Paul Marden: Completely. Next up, we've got Mr. Andy Povey. Andy Povey: Hi, Kelly. It's been a while. So I'm very pleased to be here, but not for the reason that we are all there for. We spend a lot of time on the road, travelling around for our jobs. So my question is, what's your favourite motorway service station and why?Kelly Molson: I tell you what, Peterborough motorway service station. Because I know that I'm probably an hour from home then, so I'm nearly home. I've had a good few coffees in Peterborough service station.Andy Povey: I've not tried that one, I must admit.Kelly Molson: I mean, I don't know if it's up there with, like, the best, but, you know, I just. I know that I'm going to be home soon.Paul Marden: Bit depressing that the favourite motorway service is the one that's closest to home for you. Thank you, Andy. Next up, so here's a surprise. Danielle Nicholls from Alton Towers, you've managed to join us.Danielle Nicholls: So my question to you, Kelly, is you've worked with a lot of attractions and theme parks over the years, but which is your favourite theme park attraction or ride that you've ever been on?Kelly Molson: This is not a good question to ask, is it? Because I'm going to upset people. Danielle Nicholls: You can be diplomatic about it. Kelly Molson: My favourite ride, definitely not those ones that swing and literally make you one of them. My favourite ride. It's really hard. Yeah, it's really hard. Well, I was just trying to think of, like, where do I go with this? But I'm going to go with the one. It was mine and my dad's favourite when I was a kid and it doesn't exist anymore, which is really sad, but it's the Back to the Future ride at Universal.Kelly Molson: Which was absolutely epic and I can remember years ago queuing up like four times on the trot to go on it with my dad and he just. It was just brilliant. Absolutely absolute. I mean, I love that. I love eighties music movies. Yeah. My genre, anyway, but, yeah, that ride was absolutely incredible. Oh, that's amazing. Danielle Nicholls: I never got to do that one so very jealous. Kelly Molson: Good memories.Paul Marden: Paul Griffiths, can you take the floor and give Kelly a grilling? Paul Griffiths: Of course. Hi, Kelly. Good to see you. And good to see everyone else. We know that you love picking up souvenirs and knickknacks on your travels, particularly attractions. So what is your favourite souvenir you've taken away from one of your best tourist attractions?Kelly Molson: I've got them all here. Look at them. I've got my bounty on my desk.Paul Griffiths: The show and tell answer then, isn't it?Kelly Molson: Look, I've got. Yeah. Okay. What's my favourite one, though?Paul Marden: For listeners, hey can't see you picking up a dodgy eighties ice cream box.Kelly Molson: This is my ‘80s. It's a Bijam economy vanilla ice cream tub, which my parents were obviously really keen on feeding us well as a child. But in it are, I mean, hundreds and hundreds of rubbers that I've collected from different places and attractions over the years. And they smell. I wish this was smellyvision because they absolutely smell divine. There's so many in here. But I think, again, this is. And this is for memories. I'm going to go with this one and it's really old. This is my Thorpe Park rubber.Paul Griffiths: Very classic.Kelly Molson: Isn't it great? So it's got the Thorpe park rabbit on it. Rangers. Danielle Nicholls: Is it the Thorpe Park Rangers? Kelly Molson: Yeah. Yeah. Thorpe Park Ranger. Yeah. Thorpe Park. So that was, again, that was probably the closest attraction to the closest theme park to me as a kid, and we used to go there a lot and, like, my uncle used to take me there in the summer holidays. The whole family used to go. So that one has got really good memories. That's a great question, Paul. There's so many in here, though, that I could have chosen.Paul Griffiths: I didn't age to have them all to hand, though. Kelly Molson: That sat on my desk.Paul Marden: So I promised you that we would try and faithfully stick to the format once you hand the Batman to me. So I'm going to give you a breather from being grilled by everybody. What was your unpopular opinion that you wanted to share with everybody?Kelly Molson: Peas. Peas. Peas are the food of the devil. Peas taint everything that they touch. Sometimes. Nobody tells you that there's peas in stuff on the menu as well. Like, I love a fish pie. Fish pie is delicious. When you open up a fish pie and someone's gone. No, we'll just throw a few handful of peas in there just for a laugh. That's not fun. You can pick them out of stuff, but you can taste them in absolutely everything that they are in.Paul Marden: That's not an unpopular opinion, that's just. That's just a fact. I don't know how everybody else feels about peas, but I'm a pea hater as well.Sophie Ballinger: Oh, what about cheesy peas?Kelly Molson: No, cheesy peas. Even cheese would not make peas taste appealing to me.Dominic Jones: Wasabi peas?Kelly Molson: No. Danielle Nicholls: Minty peas? Kelly Molson: No peas. I like beans. Beans are okay. And like edamame beans, which I like peas. But not peas. It's just a very distinct difference.Bernard Donoghue: Nurse. Nurse. She's out of bed again.Sophie Ballinger: Where do you stand on mushy peas? Kelly Molson: Oh, so far from mushy peas. I did have to cook them once for Lee's old granddad. Oh, God. No.Paul Marden: Guacamole as. Who was it? It was one of the politicians and labour politics. Andy Povey: Peter Mandelson. Paul Marden: There we go. Peter Mandelson went into a fish and chip shop and asked to have guacamole with his fish and chips and it turned out was mushy peas.Kelly Molson: I'd eat guacamole with my chips. That's fine.Paul Marden: So should we go back to grilling you on some.Kelly Molson: This whole episode is just awkward questions for me. Is it great?Paul Marden: You've done this to everybody for 99 episodes. It's your turn to take one. Rachel Mackay from Hampton Court Palace, welcome.Rachel Mackay: Oh, hello. I've decided to go against the grade. I'm not going to ask your revision question because I know you'll just stare blankly at me anyway, so I'm going to go more general. What is your preference, running shoes or dancing shoes? Kelly Molson: Oh, dancing shoes. Dancing shoes all the way. I really miss dancing. You don't get to dance enough when you get older. Dancing is the one thing that I used to really love doing with my friends. Rachel Mackay: I thought you would say dancing shoes because also it gives you a bit of a heel.Kelly Molson: Which I need. No, you're absolutely right.Paul Marden: So the dancing. You'll be able to get them back out again soon because, what, Eddie's two now? Two and a bit. It will soon be birthday party season, where you'll be doing the hokey cokey and you'll be doing the conga.Kelly Molson: And she's already got all my moves. She's already got all my moves. Yeah, she's in the dancing zone.Paul Marden: Excellent. Next up, we've got somebody else that couldn't join us today, so they've sent us another little video to share with you. So this is Simon Addison from the Roman Baths and number two in the hour, top ten paid attractions outside London. And I say, sorry, Dominic.Dominic Jones: He deserves it. He's a great guy. And so is the Roman Baths.Paul Marden: Exactly. You haven't heard what he says yet.Simon Addison: Hey, Kelly, it's Simon Addison here from the Roman Baths. I'm really sorry that I couldn't be with you for the recording today. Before I ask you my ice breaker question, I just wanted to tell you about the impact that skip the queue is having, not just on those people who work in visitor attractions, but those who visit them too. Last month, I was walking around the National Portrait Gallery with Dominic Jones and a visitor genuinely pulled him over and asked him if he was the Dominic Jones from Skip the Queue. Kelly, you have created an absolute monster there.Kelly Molson: I love this.Dominic Jones: That is actually true. It actually happened. We were a bit bemused by it and were worried that someone had set this visitor up, but they genuinely wanted a Korean visitor attractions and had listened to it and I'd obviously said my name a bit too loud to Simon and they came up and asked for a picture. It was completely random, but brilliant.Paul Marden: I'm a little bit heartbroken because I actually genuinely thought they spotted the face and knew you from the YouTube.Dominic Jones: I think it was the voice, but, yeah, no, it was brilliant. It's all because of Skip the Queue, which is Simon's rise had a massive impact on everyone in our industry and actually people who want to join our industry. So you should be really proud. And hopefully that's the last random stranger that stopped me. But it was fantastic.Kelly Molson: Do you know what? I do feel really proud of that.Paul Marden: So, Simon's question.Simon Addison: Kelly, my icebreaker question for you is what is the weirdest piece of advice that you've ever received? And did you follow it? Thanks very much, Kelly, and thanks for everything. Thanks for all the episodes over the years and I wish you the very best of luck with everything.Kelly Molson: I'm trying to think what has been. Do you know, I have been given some advice about public speaking before, which I thought was quite strange. I used to really. I used to get really anxious about public speaking. It wasn't something that was massively comfortable for me. And I had loads of coaching from a really good friend of mine, Andy Loparta. And I don't know if it was Andy. I don't think this was Andy that gave me this advice. I'm pretty sure it wouldn't have been. But someone told me that if you go on stage and you clench your butt cheeks, you can't actually clench anything else. At the same time. And I'm like. I am, though. I'm clenching my butt cheeks now and I'm clenching my teeth so you can. But that's always stuck in my head.Kelly Molson: So I definitely tried it, but I don't know that it helped with my speaking whatsoever. I'm doing it now. Is everyone. Is everyone doing it now? Is everyone trying it? Everyone's doing it.Paul Marden: Standing desk practicing it right now.Sophie Ballinger: Yeah. Start bobbing up and down in my seat. You'll know why. Kelly Molson: There you go.Paul Marden: Lovely segue. Sophie Ballinger from Eureka. Why don't you ask Kelly your icebreaker?Kelly Molson: Hello, duck. Sophie Ballinger: Hello, duck. Hey, I've got a bit of a random one. I think I might have. It might have been asked you this in the agency interview many years ago, but I'm not sure because it's one of my favourites. Who would win in a fight between a badger and a baboon? Kelly Molson: I don't remember you asking me this. Sophie Ballinger: Should have done.Kelly Molson: Badger. I think Badger. Badgers are quite vicious, aren't they? You think the boots. Everyone's shaking their head. Oh, I think badger. I've never seen a live badger either, but I know that they're quite vicious.Paul Marden: We went into South Africa a few years ago and we stopped because we saw a troop of baboons on the side of the road and there were other people watching. So everybody got out their cars and they all stood around. All of a sudden, this alpha male baboon just crosses the road to the car behind us, opens the back door, gets into the woman's handbag when he's rifling through trying to find chocolate and she's sat in the front seat going absolutely crazy. So I promise you it'll be the baboon. So next up, we've got another video. Joining us this time it is Elizabeth McKay, CEO of the London Transport Museum.Elizabeth Mckay: Hi, Kelly. You were the nicest interviewer I ever had. So my question for you is equally nice, I hope. So, when you're getting around London, what's your favourite mode of travel? Is it tube, bus or cycle? Kelly Molson: Oh, I actually prefer to walk, so neither of the above. I know. Sorry. I'm sorry. I like. So I have to get the train in. So my train is the Liverpool street line. So I tend to get off. You know, I go. I'll go to Liverpool street and then I quite like to walk places. I do like the tube. Not gonna dis the tube, especially not to Elizabeth. But I quite like the opportunity to go and see stuff. And I think walking around London, everything feels everything so close together.Kelly Molson: So it's nice to be able to just walk and see things that you wouldn't normally see.Bernard Donoghue: Can I just point out that I've seen Kelly getting out of a disco rickshaw at least three times in the last week.Kelly Molson: Fake news. Fake news.Paul Marden: Now, Kelly, you did say to me that you had a few thank you messages that you wanted to share with people. So do you want to just have a couple of minutes to thank some people?Kelly Molson: Yes, I would. I would like to thank everybody because people have always been so incredibly generous with their time for me, and I'm always so grateful of that. You're generous to come on and talk to me. You're generous to come on and answer my ridiculous questions, but generous to share all your insight and knowledge. And I think especially through the pandemic, that meant an incredible amount to me and hopefully to our listeners as well. It really felt like people were coming on and sharing kind of a real time. This is where we're at. This is what's happening, and this is what we're doing about it. Experience. And it was amazing.Kelly Molson: The pandemic was incredibly difficult for everybody, but for me, the highlight was knowing that I was getting to speak to so many different people and being able to share that with other people as well. And it made it a really special time for me. So thank you for everybody that has ever come on the podcast and answered my stupid questions and shared all of their stuff with me. Thank you. Thank you to all of the listeners. I genuinely could not have imagined. I could not have imagined how well this podcast would go. I honestly can remember the day that I came in, I was like, “We should definitely do this podcast. I've been looking. I don't think there's anything like it. We should do it.” And my team going, “Yeah, how do we do it? I don't know. Let's just do it, though.”Kelly Molson: And this is what happens. I come up with these crazy ideas, and I'm the driver of them, but it's all the people around me that actually make the magic happen. And that is. That's for the podcast, that's for the survey, the report, the agency itself. All I've done is just kind of drag it along and share it with people. It's all the other people behind the scenes that do it. Steve works his magic every single episode. He really does. He cuts out a lot of swearing. The very professional introductions that I record separately to the interviews. Jesus. The amount of swearing that he has to cut out on those is ridiculous. So well done, Steve, mate, you deserve that award winning podcast editor title just for this. And Wenalyn. So Wenalyn down here waving. She.Kelly Molson: I mean, she really is the powerhouse behind the podcast because I'll get you to come on. We'll have a lovely chat. It goes over to Steve for the editor, and it comes back to, well, and she does everything. She does everything. She creates all the graphics. She uploads everything to the, you know, the website, she does the transcriptions, she creates, does all the podcasts, all the scheduling, all of the. All of it. So, you know, she really does do all the hard grunt work behind it. So thank you, Wenalyn. It's been such a lovely. It's been lovely to work with you over the years. Thank you.Paul Marden: Wenalyn wins the award for the longest distance journey into the meeting today because Wenalyn is over in the Philippines. Wenalyn wins this award in every single meeting that we have. So she does.Kelly Molson: She does. There is one more. Thank you. I wanna make, which is to the unsung hero of Skip the Queue. So it's for an old team member of mine, Ashley Mays, because if it wasn't for her, actually, there probably wouldn't be a Skip the Queue. She made this happen, really. Not only did she come up with the name, but she actually got one of our first guests to agree to come onto the podcast. Because I can't tell you how difficult that first season was. If you've ever gone back, it actually launched in July 2019. This podcast, myself and my co founder, Wag, who asked the ridiculous question I answered with a fart earlier. We both used to interview guests, but if you've ever tried to get someone to come onto a podcast and they go, great. Yeah.Kelly Molson: How many listeners and downloads have you got? You're like, none. Absolutely none. No listeners. You are our first guest. Please help us make something magic. That was quite a hard sell. Ashley had a family member who agreed to come onto the podcast, and it was actually Lynne Whitnall, who is the director of Paradise Wildlife Park, which is now Hertfordshire Zoo. She was the biggest name that we could have possibly hoped for in that first series. So really, that was the kind of catalyst for all of the other amazing guests that have come on since. 2019 was a really tough year for Rubber Cheese, and I had to let Ashley go at the end of 2019, and I'll tell you now, that was the single worst thing that I've ever had to do in my whole career as an agency owner, because she was brilliant.Kelly Molson: And I felt like I'd failed her at that time. So I really wanted to make sure that she got a big thank you. She's gone on and done brilliant things. Don't get me wrong, brilliant people always do. But that was genuinely the toughest thing that I've ever had to do. And it's probably my biggest regret of running the agency all of these years as well. So, yeah, big shout out to Ashley. She made a big difference.Paul Marden: Every agency owner enjoys the fun bits, the launches, the winning new business. Nobody enjoys that bit. But it is this life, isn't it? So, yeah, it was a tough time for everybody, wasn't it? And you said that Ashley came up with the name as well, didn't she?Kelly Molson: She did, yeah. Skip the Queue was all Ashley. I take no credit for that whatsoever.Paul Marden: Amazing.Danielle Nicholls: What a moment that was. That was really touching. Kelly Molson: Thank you.Paul Marden: Keep it together, mate. You've still got a few minutes to go.Kelly Molson: Okay?Paul Marden: So let's segue for some light relief to Ross Ballinger from Drayton Manor.Kelly Molson: Now, I'm not gonna lie, I'm really apprehensive about this. Ross. Ross Ballinger: Hello, lovely. Kelly Molson: Hi, Ross.Ross Ballinger: It's so nice to see and hear you. I feel like.Kelly Molson: Likewise, mate.Ross Ballinger: I've only known you, like, a short space of time but you were such a champion for me and Danielle when you spotted us at theme park award a few years ago.Danielle Nicholls: Really.Ross Ballinger: And we're just so grateful for that. You spotted our passion and our energy for the industry and obviously we just gravitated toward each other. Anything you've done for all the other professionals in the industry as well. So true testament to everything that you've done it just. It's all paid off and everyone loves you and thank you so much for everything on Skip the Queue.Kelly Molson: Oh, mate.Ross Ballinger: No, honestly, I think that was probably one of the best years I ever had in the industry, really, because it, like, it did stem up a couple of things did, like, fall out at the back of it because it got. It got me a little bit of 15 minutes of fame that I really enjoyed. And then I managed to do some presentations with different things and owe credit to you, really, for just, like, putting us in the limelight for a little bit. Kelly Molson: I'm so pleased. I'm so pleased. I just want to tell the story because I met the two of you at the UK theme park awards. It was at Drayton Manor, wasn't it? And these guys are on the table behind me and I've never had such enthusiasm. You two were the light, I mean, that. It was a bit of a. It was a bit of a. It was a. It was a tough crowd, wasn't it? Everyone was quite subdued in there, but used to, like, “Yes,” shouting and just.Danielle Nicholls: Basically every time anyone won, even if it was like, Pleasure Beach or being anyone. We were like, “Yeah, go guys.”Ross Ballinger: We were wooing everybody.Kelly Molson: What awards do should be like. Like, you two were like the Persona of an awards day. It was. It was so good to meet you that day. I had the best day meeting you two, and I just knew that I had to get you both on the podcast, and you were such a little dream team at Drayton Manor. And now, you know, you've set off on your different paths, but it's lovely to see. For me, it's really. I think it's brilliant to see where you're all going and what your good things are.Ross Ballinger: Yeah. Thank you.Danielle Nicholls: That's really kind. Thank you.Ross Ballinger: Yeah, it was just one of those cases of, like, sat in the right place at the right time and the rest is history. Like, yeah, loved it. Loved the meeting on that day. Instant connection, you know? And you just get an instant connection with someone who shares the same energy and passion and insight, and they understand what you're doing and what you stand for. So, yeah, it was a really good day. Loved it. My icebreaker question, I did have four. Actually, so I don't even know if Paul knows what. I'm going to be honest.Paul Marden: Well, I'm taking the other two that you did send me because they were awesome.Ross Ballinger: I'm going to go with, if you could switch live with any fictional character, who would it be?Kelly Molson: It's a really good question. You need to. You have. You've wrote all these down, right? This is a good one.Ross Ballinger: Yeah. Yeah.Kelly Molson: With any fictional character. I'm trying to think of all the books that I've just thinking about. Well, okay. I've got this thing about reading. Like, if you go on holiday, I like to take, like, a really familiar book with me on holiday that you've read, like, a million times. And I don't know why. I've read The Beach, like, a billion times, which is far better than the film. Like, far better than the film. And I can't actually remember a guy's name in it now. It's gone off my head. But the Leonardo DiCaprio character in the book, I will swap lives with him because I feel like that whole travelling culture, I never got to do that. I wasn't brave enough to do that when I was younger, and I'd really like to go and do it now, but it's really difficult for toddler.Paul Marden: Not brave enough to do that. But you were brave enough to jack it all in and set up an agency 20 years ago.Kelly Molson: Yeah. Should I have done the travelling? Who knows? But, yeah, I think, yeah, I would swap places with him, although he goes a little bit crazy towards the end. I'd take that.Ross Ballinger: Thanks for your long lasting impact on a door. Thank you very much. Love you.Paul Marden: Well said, Ross. Crack and jog. So I'm going to take that and segue off quite nicely now to a video from your greatest fan, my daughter, Miss Amelia Marden. She wanted to be part of this, but she's busy at school today, so she sent you in a question and she said,Amelia Marden: Hello, Kelly. I've seen the video of the roller coaster you and dad went on at Drayton Manor. My question is, what is your favourite sort of roller coaster? Vertical drop or a loop de loop? Love you from Amelia.Paul Marden: For listeners. I kept it together on that roller coaster. There was no noise. I was completely composed. Everything was fine until it started moving at the beginning.Kelly Molson: So was this. No, hang on a minute. Was this the, this was the in the Viking. This is the Viking one, wasn't it? Because we've been on two roller coasters together. And the second one, it was in the rain and there was a lot of screaming in my ear as well. The first one was. Yeah, the first one was relatively screamy as well. What is my favourite? I like the shock of a drop. I do like a loop a loop. I'm cool with those. But there's something about like that. There's a, there's a motion sickness thing with me that is a bit. So the drop one I quite like. And again, this has got another good memory of my dad is that is Terra Towers. He loves the Terror Towers drop so much.Kelly Molson: My dad's got this thing in his head about taking Edie to Disney. Like my dad. My dad best in, he'll be when she's five, he'll be like 76. So, you know, he's getting on and he's like, that's my cutoff point. We're going to go to Disney when she's five, whether we all like it or not, because I can't do it any older than that. And he's like, we're going to go on Terror Towers, aren't we, Dad? I don't know if you should, dad. It's almost, I feel like maybe it was trigger of a heart attack. I don't know. A bit worried. But he's adamant that he's, you know.Paul Marden: He's going to Edie's five and we're taking them on to Terror Towers.Kelly Molson: Maybe it's going to work, Dad.Paul Marden: I think we don't need to set dad's expectations, teacups. And it's a small world and that's about it.Kelly Molson: Yeah, I'll have that chat with him.Paul Marden: And we have got a message in from Mister David Hingley.David Hingley: So I sit in a lot of meetings with Kelly, either in person or online, in her role as a trustee at Museum of the Broads. And it's usually not as dramatic as it might be. We talk about steamboats, coal, and our upcoming Pete exhibition, which is fascinating but can lack a bit of drama. So my question is, if every time you enter a room for the rest of your life a piece of entrance music plays, what piece of music are you choosing and why?Kelly Molson: Oh, my God. I've never thought about this question. This is a great question. Why has everyone given me really good questions now that I'm leaving? You idiots.Paul Marden: David is promising to play this at every future trustees meeting. As you arrive, he'll have Spotify on the phone ready to play.Kelly Molson: What would be my entrance music? I feel like it's got to be something. It's got to be something dancy where I can get my groove on. So I feel like. Like this someone's. Loads of people have probably said this, but I feel like. Like here comes the hot stepper. Would be a good one for me because I can, you know, I can drive in. Here come the odd stepper, you know?David Hingley: I'll record the next trustee meeting museums of the broad and circulates to this group.Kelly Molson: Oh, please do.Paul Marden: Thank you, David.Kelly Molson: I'll tell you what. I'll do it at the AGM. I'll dance in at the AGM.Paul Marden: So last up, we have Mr. Dominic Jones from the Mary Rose, who, along with Portsmouth Historic Dockyard, the third most popular paid attraction outside of London in the hour list released yesterday.Dominic Jones: Yeah, very happy about that. Very happy.Paul Marden: I can take you one better because still the undisputed most listened to podcast guest on Skip the Queue as of yesterday. Wow.Dominic Jones: I honestly can't believe that.Paul Marden: I know, I know. It's not as if you haven't dined out on that fact several times before.Andy Povey: He doesn't like to talk about it, Paul.Kelly Molson: He's so shy, doesn't he? Dominic Jones: I am shy. I don't talk about myself. That's incredible. What did you say number one?Paul Marden: Number one by country mile, I might say.Kelly Molson: Yeah, by nearly a hundred downloads, actually.Dominic Jones: Oh, well, that's fantastic. I'm absolutely honored about that. I have to say, I am so sad that Skip the Queue with Kelly is coming to an end because it's kept me company on many a motorway journey, on many a day when I've had a really tough day at work and thought, you know, what's going to cheer me up is Skip the Queue. Because not only do you motivate and inspire the next generation, like the person that sort of bumped into me and Simon, but you also motivate, inspire all of us. And actually, without Skip the Queue, and to be fair, ALVA as well, I don't think I'd have this amazing network of friends and colleagues that really keep me sane in some of the tough times.Dominic Jones: So I know we often talk and Bernard talks about how visitor attractions are like sort of the fourth emergency service, I would say, when it comes to working in a visitor attraction, you and ALVA. So Skip the Queue and ALVA are the emergency services, because without you, I don't think we'd be sane. Absolutely. You've made such a difference to my personal life and I can't thank you enough. But for an icebreaker question, one of the things that irritates me on Skip the Queue is you can tell who Kellys favourites are. So if she has someone from the zoo and she likes them, whats your favourite animal? Or someone from a theme park, whats your favorite ride? And then she gets people that she just asks really difficult icebreakers. So I was thinking, how can I get the most random, hardest icebreaker?Dominic Jones: And I was trying to remember, but when I was a child in the eighties and nineties growing up, a lot of my friends had Sky TV. We couldn't afford Sky TV. We had BBC One and BBC two. Well, on Sky TV there was this thing called WWF. Now, this was before the Internet. So I went to the library and worked out that it was about looking after animals. Turns out it wasn't. It was actually wrestling. And so I used to sort of been in the playground, talk to my friends, but never ever watching it, never really understanding it. So I'd be in my bedroom. I was very young at the time, pretending to be a WWF wrestler. I was the praying mantis, because I did watch BBC 2 a lot. Mantis, one of the very strongest animal in the animal kingdom.Dominic Jones: But if you were a wrestler in the WWF, what would be your wrestling name?Kelly Molson: I used to love the wrestling.Dominic Jones: I bet you did. I bet you did.Kelly Molson: I did. We went. So they did the one in the UK. They did the royal rumble and I had the finger and everything. Yeah. I used to like the bushwhackers and rowdy Roddy Piper and Jake the Snake. I was well into it. I was really into it. Yeah. I was not cool at school until I was well into the wrestling. So what would be my wrestling name?Dominic Jones: Yeah. And why?Kelly Molson: The trouble is, I'm a bit of a lover, not a fighter, so don't think I'd actually make a very good wrestler. I'm not actually that aggressive. Looking at me as if I've said something crazy, then I'm not a fight. I might have a fiery temper, but I'm not a fighter. Oh, God. It's. I don't know what rhymes. Like, Kelly's a really rubbish name to rhyme stuff, but Kick ass Kelly, it's rubbish, isn't it?Dominic Jones: Good, that'll do.Kelly Molson: Okay. Kick ass Kelly. Yeah. I don't know what would be my costume. There'd definitely be some neon in there. I feel like I'd be like the eighties girl. Like neon leggings and leg warmers and stuff. Yeah.Dominic Jones: And maybe some fire in the background as well, just to spice it up. Yeah.Kelly Molson: Yeah, maybe.Paul Marden: I reckon there's got to be some cheese in there as well. You need some. You need some cheese in that wrestler name, ain't it?Kelly Molson: There's not many cheeses that begin that, like, rhyme with Kelly either.Dominic Jones: The worst ever icebreaker. I've ruined it.Kelly Molson: Good question. No, I like it.Dominic Jones: Oh, I should have done. What's your favourite boat? That's what I should have done.Paul Marden: Oh, come on then.Kelly Molson: What's my favourite boat? Well, it would have to be the falcon or the. Can't remember the name of the other one.David Hingley: Well, the other one.Kelly Molson: Is it the Marsh Harrier?David Hingley: That's the one.Kelly Molson: There you go. At the Museum of the Broads is a wonderful museum. You can also take your family out on a little boat trip. It's also dog friendly as well, you know, bring all your friends.Dominic Jones: Great. Plug in one of your recent episodes. I was listening and thought about booking a holiday. It was a great plug in the last episode. You did?Kelly Molson: Well, if you do fancy a little holiday trip to Norfolk, you know, there's a little holiday cottage that you could. You could hit me up for, Dominic. So just, you know, let me know.Dominic Jones: Absolutely.Paul Marden: I reckon I should have got 20 quid in my pocket every time you mention that guest house.Kelly Molson: I really hope that someone books someday and they're like, “We heard it on Skip the Queue.” “Yes! It worked.”Paul Marden: They'll insist on a discount. Thank you, Don. That was amazing. If any of our listeners would like to support any of the other guests and boost their listener figures to compete with Don, I'm going to put the details of everybody's episodes in the show notes, because frankly, Dominic Jones: Why would you do that?Kelly Molson: That's mean.Dominic Jones: Why would you do that? Surely this is the end now. Number one, the end.Paul Marden: We're talking load of nonsense and I need to put something in the show notes. So I thought I'd put the episodes that everybody was in on the show notes. Can you exclude one, Paul? Oh, I'm sure I can, yes.Dominic Jones: I think yours is okay, Andy. I wouldn't exclude you. Yours was a great one. Paul Marden: So they'll all be in the show notes. And lastly, all of our guests asked to pick a book that they love. So Kelly, what's your book?Kelly Molson: I read this book right at the very start of my agency journey. A very good friend of mine, he's been a coach of mine for a number of years, said that you should read this book, and it is How to win friends and influence people by Dale Carnegie. It's a very old book, but it is a classic. And this book opened my eyes and ears. So it really taught me how to understand and listen to people. And I think for me, building an agency like we have over the years, so much of that comes down to listening to people, understanding what their challenges are. You know, we have to network. You know, a lot of what we do is based on reputation and how likable you can be and all of those kind of things.Kelly Molson: And this book really gives you an understanding of that, about what it is to be likable. And you shouldn't have to teach this to people. Like, really, it's pretty common sense, but, you know, it can be difficult for people to understand, like, why you should listen to people and why you should just let people talk. And I think a lot of the things that I learned from this book, I have applied to the podcast, so I just want to read out a little synopsis. Well, some of the things that I think are really important about how you listen to people, and it's. It's about becoming genuinely interested in other people.Kelly Molson: And I hope that has come across in this podcast, because every single person that has come on and shared with me has just given me so much to think about, and I've learned so much from you all. It teaches you to smile, like smiling is just so important. I've always been amazed at how many people that don't smile back when I smile at them when I'm out walking the dog in the morning. Just smiling is the simplest thing that you can do to connect with somebody. Remembering people's names. Remember that a person's name to that person is the most important sound in any language. Make sure that you can just remember people's names. Be a good listener. Encourage others to talk about themselves. And I hope that I've done that. I've always hoped this podcast, you know, it's not about me.Kelly Molson: It won't be about Paul. It will be about all the guests that come on and still continue to come on and talk to us about their stories and their challenges and their initiatives and all the brilliant things that they do. And I hope that I have gone above and beyond in making other people feel important. And I hope I've been sincere in doing that as well because it is all about you. You all make this podcast amazing and I genuinely am so grateful that you've allowed me into your ears and allowed me to share everybody else's stories in a really fun way. So thank you.Paul Marden: Kelly, that was really. Yeah, awesome. Listeners. If you'd like to win in Kelly's book, then head over to the show announcement on X and retweet as saying, I want Kelly's book. That just leaves me to say that we are busy planning season six now. Wanlyn and I met yesterday with Oz to start brainstorming ideas for what we can do in season six. If you've got ideas, then send them in. Let us know on Twitter. We'd love to hear those X, I should say. If you would like to appear in an episode, let us know, because I love to interview people. So let us know if you'd like to come onto the podcast, that would be amazing. That's about it from all of us here today. So I want to thank my lovely co hosts, the Skip the Queue alumni.Paul Marden: I want to thank the rest of the Rubber Cheese team that came along as well. I want to thank you, Kelly, for everything that you've done for us and thank the lovely listeners. I look forward to seeing you all in the next episode of Skip the Queue.Kelly Molson: Thank you so much. This is amazing. Thank you. Kelly Molson: Thanks for listening to Skip the Queue. If you've enjoyed this podcast, please leave us a five star review. It really helps others find us. And remember to follow us on Twitter for your chance to win the books that have been mentioned. Skip The Queue is brought to you by Rubber Cheese, a digital agency that builds remarkable systems and websites for attractions that helps them increase their visitor numbers. You can find show notes and transcriptions from this episode and more over on our website, rubbercheese.com/podcast. The 2023 Visitor Attraction Website Report is now LIVE! Dive into groundbreaking benchmarks for the industryGain a better understanding of how to achieve the highest conversion ratesExplore the "why" behind visitor attraction site performanceLearn the impact of website optimisation and visitor engagement on conversion ratesUncover key steps to enhance user experience for greater conversionsDownload the report now for invaluable insights and actionable recommendations!
In episode 14, we discuss our 2024 THEME PARK HYPE LISTS! What rides, shows, attractions, new parks and new things are we most excited about in the world of theme parks for this new year! We discuss Disney, Universal, and USA parks and attractions,including Cedar Point, COTALand, and Las Vegas, and then head overseas to discuss UK parks and some exciting developments there at Thorpe Park, Alton Towers, Drayton Manor and beyond, and of course Disney Cruise Line, sailing into new adventures this year! Let us know your hype lists and use the hashtag #expeditionenthused - find us on YouTube & Social media at our respective handles - Jackie is Super Enthused and Sam is Expedition Enthused! Thanks for hanging out!
This week our viewers will be roasting our Top 10 coasters and we'll be roasting each other's too! We also catch up on all the latest Theme Park news from around the globe including Thorpe Park's new logo, Universal Studios rumored London Resort and much much more!
People are up in arms? No.. they love it. Well.. who knows at this point as Thorpe has rebranded. The boys discuss that, Universal going European, Energylandia, Circuit Breaker, your fan questions and much more in this episode.
Skip the Queue is brought to you by Rubber Cheese, a digital agency that builds remarkable systems and websites for attractions that helps them increase their visitor numbers. Your host is Kelly Molson, Founder of Rubber Cheese.Download the Rubber Cheese 2023 Visitor Attraction Website Report - the annual benchmark statistics for the attractions sector.If you like what you hear, you can subscribe on iTunes, Spotify, and all the usual channels by searching Skip the Queue or visit our website rubbercheese.com/podcast.If you've enjoyed this podcast, please leave us a five star review, it really helps others find us. Show references: https://carbonsix.digital/https://www.linkedin.com/in/pmarden/Paul Marden is the Founder and Managing Director of Carbon Six Digital and the CEO of Rubber Cheese. He is an Umbraco Certified Master who likes to think outside the box, often coming up with creative technical solutions that clients didn't know were possible. Paul oversees business development and technical delivery, specialising in Microsoft technologies including Umbraco CMS, ASP.NET, C#, WebApi, and SQL Server. He's worked in the industry since 1999 and has vast experience of managing and delivering the technical architecture for both agencies and client side projects of all shapes and sizes. Paul is an advocate for solid project delivery and has a BCS Foundation Certificate in Agile. https://www.rubbercheese.com/https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellymolson/Kelly Molson is the Founder of Rubber Cheese, a user focused web design and development agency for the attraction sector. Digital partners to Eureka! The National Children's Museum, Pensthorpe, National Parks UK, Holkham, Visit Cambridge and The National Marine Aquarium.Kelly regularly delivers workshops and presentations on sector focused topics at national conferences and attraction sector organisations including ASVA, ALVA, The Ticketing Professionals Conference and the Museum + Heritage Show.As host of the popular Skip the Queue Podcast for people working in or working with visitor attractions, she speaks with inspiring industry experts who share their knowledge of what really makes an attraction successful.Recent trustee of The Museum of the Broads. Transcription: Kelly Molson: Welcome to Skip the Queue, a podcast for people working in or working with visitor attractions. I'm your host, Kelly Molson. In this new monthly slot, Rubber Cheese CEO Paul Marden joins me to discuss different digital related topics. In this episode, we're talking about mobile optimisation, why it's important and what you can do to improve it. If you like what you hear, you can subscribe on all the usual channels by searching Skip the Queue. Kelly Molson: Hello, we're back. Everyone will be sick of us by this episode. Paul Marden: I give it a couple more. We've got some interesting stuff to talk about hopefully, hopefully.Kelly Molson: We have. Okay, so let's start as we usually do then, with what attraction have you visited most recently and what did you love about it? Paul Marden: Well, there's one that you and I both visited recently, and there was something I really didn't love about it. We went on what was it called? Was it Mandrake Mayhem? It's the new Jumanji ride. Chessington World of Adventures. Kelly Molson: Mandrill. Paul Marden: There we go. If you are a roller coaster nut, would be amazing. But yeah, within 2 seconds of the ride starting, I realised it was not the ride for me. Kelly Molson: I like roller coasters. Yeah. So we sponsored one of the awards at the UK Theme Park Awards. And it was brilliant. It's fantastic. Paul Marden: It was such a great event. Kelly Molson: Really good event, brilliantly organised. It was absolutely brilliant to see so many attraction friends there. And it was at Chessington World of Adventures, which was super cool. I also want to talk about Chessington because I had forgotten how good it is. So I haven't been to Chessington since I was really small, and I think I'm pretty sure I only visited once or twice because we actually lived closer to Thorpe Park and were like in the Thorpe Park Rangers camp. But what I'd forgotten about Chessington was the animals. Yeah, I was really lucky. I drove down the night before of the awards and got to stay at the hotel that night. I didn't get to stay in any of themed rooms because budget did not allow for that. Kelly Molson: However, what I'd forgotten was that when you're having breakfast, the animals are literally right outside where you're eating. And I'd forgotten about it to the extent that I went up to the buffet to go and get my lovely, delicious English breakfast, which I was really looking forward to. And I could see people looking out the window and I was like, "Oh, what are you looking at?" And they went, "Giraffes? Yeah. Wow." Actually took my breath away a little bit. It was a really great experience. It's not often that you get to eat your breakfast whilst looking at giraffes and zebras as well that were out there. So, yeah, that was really great. And I really enjoyed the roller coaster. Despite someone's screams in my ear.Paul Marden: I heard this screaming noise all the way around and about three quarters of the way around I realised it was me. Kelly Molson: There was quite a bit of a screaming, to be fair. Paul Marden: I watched it back. I found a video on YouTube to show Millie, my daughter, and I was like, "Oh, my God, it's horrific. You get to the end and you're just dangling on the side for about a minute and then it changes direction.” And we watched it on YouTube, it barely stops at the top of the ride. It gets up to the top, gets to a hole and then drops back down again. Now, to me, in my memory, that was a solid minute. We were hanging over the side of the hole.Kelly Molson: It was just a minute. Paul Marden: Anyway, I did enjoy it. Kelly Molson: Yeah, big thumbs up to Chessington. It was a really great experience. So, thank you. A big thumbs up to the UK Theme Park Awards organisers as well. It was a great event. We'll be back next year.Paul Marden: For sure. Kelly Molson: Right, we're going to talk about mobile optimisation in this episode. We're going to talk about why it's important and what you can do to improve it. And we've got some really interesting stats to share from the Visitor Attraction Website Report about this. But did you know optimisation is no longer a nice to have? It's a necessity, because Statista forecasts that retail sales from mobile commerce are expected to surpass that 100 billion mark by 2000 and 2400. Paul Marden: Crazy, isn't that? Kelly Molson: I started my career in digital, in ecommerce as well, which is crazy. So it just feels really I know, back in the day, so I always say it was my last proper job before I founded Rubber Cheese, which then has been like, what, nearly 21 years. So it was the last proper job that I had before I set that up was for a really early startup, almost like Shopify, but back then. So this is like 23 years ago. Paul Marden: We've got employees younger than that.Kelly Molson: Let's look at it. But it enabled sellers to go and build their own shop. It was called iShop. It was an absolutely incredible platform of its time. And back then, I just about had an email address, let alone did everything, could pretty much run my entire organisation on my mobile phone now. It just blows my mind how much things have moved on. Paul Marden: It's crazy, isn't it?Kelly Molson: Anyway, I digress. So our Visitor Attraction Website Report shows that attractions understand the importance of mobile optimisation for their websites, but there's really huge areas that could be improved. This, for me is the most shocking stat from the entire report. It's blown my mind slightly. 96% of the respondents stated that they had never conducted any user testing for their mobile sites. So that's nearly all of the 188 attractions that took part said that they've never done any user testing on their mobile, which I just don't understand. I've been banging on about testing on your mobile, testing your mobile site for every talk that I've given for the past two years. Paul Marden: Well, that's having a big effect, isn't it, mate? Kelly Molson: Isn't it? Maybe I should talk louder. Yeah, I'm really gobsmacked at it. What was really interesting, though, about it, I mean, it's a shocking stat in itself, but what we did this year with the report is that we asked attractions to kind of self-score their website. So we asked them what they felt their design scored in terms of design, so they could give it a one to ten score. So we asked them to do the same about different areas of their site, and one was mobile optimisation. So 31% gave their site a score of nine out of ten for it, and 24% gave their site an eight out of ten. Paul Marden: They think it's pretty good. Kelly Molson: Yes, and this is the problem. So they think it's good. That indicates that those scores are based on internal assumptions, not potentially not tangible user centred data, because they haven't asked the people to test that their mobile sites are a nine out of ten or an eight out of ten. So I just thought that was really interesting, that a lot of your judgement can be based on your assumptions rather than actually asking the people that are using it. So yeah, I think that's really important that people do that. Paul Marden: I was looking at some stuff that was related to this, but not the same area of the stats that you were looking at there. So I looked at how many of the group actually did any user testing on their site. Okay. And obviously that's a really in comparison to other stats where there's a big wide disparity between different sorts of people. The vast bulk of people reported that they weren't doing any user testing, but the ones that did, all sat in the top range of conversion rate. I'm not saying that one causes the other, but there is a strong relationship between the group of people that are user testing their sites. And all of that group of people also had a conversion rate right in the top of our data set, and that ranged in size as well. Paul Marden: So we're not just talking about the big brands that are doing this. And when you looked at that set of data, there was a big brand in there. Everybody would know it. There was quite a few big brands that weren't in there. So for me, they were conspicuous by their absence because I'd seen them elsewhere in the data set that had been reported. But there was a small brand in there as well, a small organisation. I'd not heard of them before. They had between 5 to 10,000 transactions a year, which in comparison to the people at the top end of the scale, that's at least an order of magnitude smaller organisation. But they were reporting that they were doing user testing and they had a conversion rate right up there in the top end of our data set. Paul Marden: Even more surprisingly, of those that have done user testing specifically on mobile was a very small percent. And this bit you will be pleased about because some people are listening to you, that consisted of a very high proportion of Rubber Cheese clients were in that set of people who were doing user testing specifically on their mobile experience.Kelly Molson: Yay. Yay, Rubber Cheese clients!Paul Marden: Somebody is listening to you. Kelly Molson: High five to all of you lovely people. Yes. So it's interesting, isn't it? Because user testing for me, so we talk a lot about marginal gains at Rubber Cheese, about trying to make something that 1% better, 1% better, 1% better. And the only way you can actually do that is by doing user testing because you just don't know what to make better. You don't know where people are finding those barriers, you don't know where people are maybe confused about something or being blocked by something as well. For me, it's the number one thing to do if you want to start making those tiny adjustments that will start to then have those incremental and larger effects later on down the line. Paul Marden: I think it's so difficult to put yourself into the head of that person that knows nothing. We all come to the party if we run the testing, whether it's us at the attraction or us as the agency. We come to the party with lots and lots of knowledge that the average person that comes to the site and just doesn't have. And it's really hard to put yourself into that position and the solution to that is getting them to do the testing for you. Kelly Molson: Yeah. And when it comes to testing, I think I kind of split it into two. Because for mean I've said this before, but most of my browsing or purchasing is done in a very short window of time in front of the telly when I'm supposed to be watching something that Lee and I have decided that is the one thing that we can watch with the hour of telly time that we get together each day. But actually I'll be trying to watch that whilst also doing ten other things on my phone and I'll split it into browsing and purchasing and most of that happens between about 9:00 and 10:00 for me at night and it will always be on my phone. Do not make me go, I'm not going to go back into my office and crack open my laptop at that time. Kelly Molson: So everything has to be on my phone. I'm really time poor, clearly. So page load speed for me is really important. If I'm trying to find something, I need to find it quickly. I want to read something that's engaging, but not at the expense of not being able to load that page that I want to read. So things like compressing your images is really important. This is a difficult one when it comes to video is that I love video. I think there is nothing more engaging than video on your website, especially if you're a visit attraction to sell that experience. But lose the video on mobile or reduce it, reduce it, reduce it down because that's going to wipe out a load of bandwidth speed and it's going to make your page loads really small. Paul Marden: I've got beef about it in terms of it's autoplay video. It's not an environmentally sustainable thing to do. We don't often think about the environmental impact of websites but it's right up there in terms of industry generating CO2 emissions and it's not the main cause of it, but it's one area where this is prevalent is in the use of autoplay video on homepage. The website. People go to the site, the video plays whether they want to watch the video or not and that is just burning through bandwidth which is ultimately generating CO2. So I'm not anti video. I think video is an amazing thing and as you say, it can really engage you. I sat this morning talking about engaging video to try and get people to want to love the attraction to a client. So I'm totally for it. Paul Marden: But it should be something that user opt into, not something that autoplays for them. Kelly Molson: Yeah, I agree. And content as well. So we know that people read content online differently than they do in a book or a magazine or a newspaper for example, but actually they read it differently than they do on desktop to mobile too. So you actually need to think about if a certain article you have or a blog or event or whatever it may be, is going to sit in the demographic of people like me who is a 45 year old woman with toddler has 1 hour in front of the telly a day to do all of her purchashing and scrolling and anything else she needs to do on her phone. Paul Marden: Superheroes you make. Kelly Molson: Where is my cape? That content really needs to appeal to them and it needs to be in the shortest form possible because I don't have the time to read all of the engaging content. I just don't. So you need to kind of think about, is your content formatted differently when it's from desktop to mobile as well? And then when it comes to purchasing this one's, a little bit trickier for attractions, I think, and there's lots of different reasons for it. We're probably going to talk a little bit longer about this one, but the number one thing that we're always asked to review on attraction websites is that booking journey. And the thing is, we can only do the review of it if that booking journey is owned by the attraction. Kelly Molson: What I mean is if it's been designed and you are integrating with your booking system via API, so your agency or your internal team have designed that journey up to the point of you know, the tickets in the basket and gone. If you're using a third party system, an off the shelf ticketing platform that isn't integrated via API, there's not a lot that we can do about of once a guest is into the purchasing journey, they're with that system. The things that you can think about if you are going to go down the design and at your own route, you need to think about big buttons, you need to think about less clutter. I want arrows, don't make me type stuff into small form, free form boxes on mobile. You just need to be able to select things really quickly and clearly. Kelly Molson: So you want to kind of just strip out all of the noise and just get people to focus on the one thing that you want them to do, which is go through that journey and buy that ticket. What was interesting in the stats that came out of the report is that 75% of the respondents to it still expect customers to complete more than five steps to purchase, which hasn't changed from last year, that's similar to last year. And again, the reasons you might not be able to control that, you might be unable to control that because of the system that you use. So this is a really challenging one, but if you can reduce it, you can actually make some quite significant financial gains. So you looked at the impact of bookings on conversion rate, which is quite significant. Paul Marden: I got really excited working this number out. I reckon these numbers are conservative as well because these are on the basis of ticket prices and lost ticket sales. For me, I think this number could be higher for most attractions because the value of somebody coming to an attraction is bigger than just their ticket price. We talked about this the other day when were chatting. When you go there's, the meal that you eat, there's the gifts that you buy when you leave. So the total cost of somebody arriving at the attraction is probably higher than I'm estimating here. But using some stats on what the fall off rate is in ecommerce transactions, we've worked out that each step that you add to your checkout flow, it costs. Paul Marden: For our average attraction in our data set that we reckon it costs about 8000 pounds a year in lost sales. And for our top performing attractions it could be worth in the range of a quarter of a million pound a year in lost sales for each step that is included in their checkout flow. You think if you're in one of those top performing attractions with five steps, a quarter of a million pound in lost sales just in year one, that's a lot of developer time that you could buy to simplify your checkout workflow, isn't it? The return on investment for that, for a big organisation of simplifying your checkout workflow I think could be huge. Kelly Molson: Yeah, it could. There's so many other factors to think about. We have clients that have API integrations, we have clients that use off the shelf booking systems. In one way, I've always been really in the corner of designing and owning your own booking journey, but you have to be realistic about what that puts on the organisation as well, and what size your organisation is, whether you have the internal team to be able to manage that, the infrastructure to be able to manage that as well. Paul Marden: There's a total cost of ownership issue, isn't there, that is beyond just the buying price of the website in the first place. You've got to be able to maintain the thing going forward, haven't you, and that's pricy. Kelly Molson: Yeah, absolutely. But I think if you are thinking about your booking systems at the moment, then having the conversations with the providers about what their mobile journeys look like, ask to get them to demo it on mobile so you can see it for yourself. And ask them what the roadmap is in terms of mobile optimisation for the booking journeys as well. So just go into these conversations with those thoughts in mind so that you can get an understanding of what that looks like. And if their purchasing journey is six steps at the minute, ask them what are your plans to reduce that to five steps and how could we work with you to make that happen? That could start to take those conversations in some really positive ways. Paul Marden: Honestly, this stat, I'm going to sound like such a nerd, but this stat has stuck in my head ever since we worked this one out. And I can't get out of my head what the impact is of the lost opportunity, the lost sales that are happening because of these steps. And I've been thinking, what is the absolute barest minimum? Because lots of attractions, when they're going through their buying journey, I'm thinking, what on earth do you need to ask me? This is a rhetorical question, by the way. I know the complexity that is going into a lot of these things, I do understand it, but why is it that you actually need to ask me to take these five steps to get through, to get me to actually part with my money? Paul Marden: And I've been thinking about, for me, what is the absolute barest minimum you could get away with asking? Well, there's no way that you can affect a payment card transaction without knowing the card details. So you've got to ask the card number, the postcode, the CDC number and the surname of the person holding the card. So you have to have those. And if we can't give the ticket to somebody, we've got to have a mechanism getting the ticket to them, so we need their email address. Those five things are the absolute barest things I could get away with. But of course, that would only sell you, could only sell an undated, untimed ticket with that. Paul Marden: And I've been thinking about this back in COVID, so COVID and lockdown, and then the gradual release of lockdown was what introduced for many attractions, timed and dated tickets, wasn't it? And that was a complete transformation because we had limited capacity, we needed to make sure that we didn't oversell that capacity and create a problem at the gate. But is it necessary now? I completely understand that there's lots of benefit to the attraction, to guest services and people like that, of knowing exactly how many people are coming into the attraction and being able to metre that. But I wonder what impact having timed tickets and dated tickets is having on the number of people that give up buying because there's just too many steps in the process. "I can't be bothered with this. I'm going to not do it."Kelly Molson: This is quite controversial.Paul Marden: Isn't it? Completely. And I'm thinking back to that podcast episode that you did with Roman Baths where you were talking about variable pricing and dynamic pricing and of course you can only do those things if you have dated and timed tickets. So if nothing else, there is a creative tension there, isn't there, between if I ask the absolute barest minimum, I will sell more tickets, versus if I date and time my tickets and I could be really flexible about my pricing. Everybody wants lots and lots of information because who wouldn't want all the information you could possibly get about your customers versus the more I ask, the less people will buy. Harsh, isn't it? Kelly Molson: Yeah. I'm in the camp of pre booking as well, so this is uncomfortable for me. I'm in the camp of pre booking and I don't mind time ticketing either. I think there is absolutely a place for it and I think for organisations, for attractions, it just makes their life so much simpler. Paul Marden: Completely agreed with you. But I guess there's this at one end of the scale, you've got the absolute barest minimum that you could ask that will get more people, take their money, take money off of people and get them through the checkout flow as fast as you possibly can. Versus if there's two ends to this spectrum and both make us both feel uncomfortable, Where's the middle ground? Do you need to know where my address is? You don't need my address to be able to sell me a ticket. You need to know my postcode so you can do the credit card transaction, but you don't need my whole address to do that. So maybe that's where the compromise sits. That doesn't make either of us feel uncomfortable. Kelly Molson: Maybe. I always think there's a way to get more data out of people at a later stage as well, if you really want it. And maybe that's something that we need to look at in a different episode, is that you don't have to ask for all of these things at the point of purchase, but you can ask for more stuff afterwards as well if you're really engaging with that audience. Paul Marden: There's also one more thing just on that point, there were tools that could simplify this as well. Because if you have a clever use of Apple Pay or Google Pay, both of those checkout flows, people have all of their personal information plugged into Apple Pay, so you don't need to ask me anything about me. If you have a clever checkout flow with Apple Pay, then you could take my money and then get my personal information from Apple rather than make me having to type it all in. How much easier does that make the process?Kelly Molson: When I posted about this on LinkedIn, it must have been a couple of months ago now, and I asked people what their biggest frustrations was with booking journeys. They said lack of Apple Pay. They said it's a necessity for people. They don't want to think about their details. They don't know their card details. They haven't gotten again, they're sitting on the sofa like I am, their cards are upstairs. They're not going to get off their bums and go and get their cards. That was the number one thing that kept coming up over and over again. And then the second one was around clear and consistent pricing so that they don't feel like they're being ripped off as the deeper they get into that journey. So that's two really interesting things to think about there. Kelly Molson: On these episodes, we often highlight people that are doing it. Well, we've decided not to do it in this episode. And there's a couple of reasons for that, is that it's really hard to compare between people that have an API integrated designed booking journey and people that are using off the shelf systems. And there will be very specific reasons for why they have chosen to go down either of those routes. And you can't compare them because the reasons are uncomparable, I feel. So we've decided just to take that step out for today, but we are going to talk about what next steps that you can take. So I think the first one is going back to what you've just referenced is thinking about what information you actually really need from the customer. Paul Marden: Yeah, if you ask less, you'll need less steps. The less steps, the more people will make it through the checkout site. Kelly Molson: So what can you remove and maybe what could you add in later in addition to that. Paul Marden: Completely. Kelly Molson: And then test on mobile. Test again. Didn't I end last episode with saying just test, test on mobile regularly, but go through the entire process from start to finish.Paul Marden: And then the fix the stuff that doesn't work. So I had an interesting conversation when were at Theme Park Awards with another podcast alumni. We were chatting about prepping for the report and where were going and what were doing and all that kind of thing. And he told me a story about a site, fairly large attraction, where when you try and check out the only way if you're doing it on mobile, you can't select the number of tickets when you hold your mobile up. Now, the attraction has tested, they know it because they've written a message at the top of the page and it says to be able to book your tickets, rotate your phone to the side and then you get the ability to be able to choose your numbers. Paul Marden: So great, they're doing some testing, but how many people don't bother reading that message, how many people are stymied by the idea that, "Oh, well, I can't choose the number of tickets?" Not only have you got to test it, you got to fix the stuff that doesn't work as well. Kelly Molson: Yeah, gosh, how frustrating is that? And is that the system that they're using? So they've got no control over it. And if that is the system that they're using, then they didn't get them to demo it on mobile, did they, when they purchased it? Paul Marden: I think it's a combination of the two. I think there was something very special about the ticket descriptions of that attraction. That meant that they wrote quite a lot in the descriptions and when you wrote quite a lot in the ticket description, it just overflows off the side of your mobile, unless you've got a massive tablet. Or you rotate it on the side. Kelly Molson: Yeah, it's not great. Asking them to do something that they're not expecting to have to do is challenging, isn't it, asking all your users to think, well, they don't want to think either. They don't want to think at that point. They just want to do the doing. Okay, what kind of budget are we looking at for some of these things? It's really difficult to say.Paul Marden: Yeah, as you've just said, or to remove steps out of the checkout flow. It could be impossible for many people, because if they have an off the shelf ticketing system that they call out to that they don't have control over, then they might not be able to do anything about that. I mean, don't get me wrong, there's lots of things with those off the shelf ticketing solutions. Many of them are very flexible about the steps that you take through the checkout flow. So it can be very highly configurable and it could be in their control to just take it out without any need for developers doing things. It could just be a case of how do they use their third party ticketing system and changing that slightly. Paul Marden: So it could be possible, or it could be something very practical that they could do themselves. Kelly Molson: It's worth saying that we as an organisation have lots of conversations with lots of the ticketing providers and they are very aware of improvements that can be made or would like to be made to this. Kelly Molson: So I think that there's definitely a movement in the ticketing world of acknowledging that this is challenge and knowing that they can do something about it. And I know that there are a few that have got kind of plans to make change in this area as well. So that's great to see.Paul Marden: It's a really competitive space, isn't it? So it's interesting to see how that's going to play out. Kelly Molson: Yeah, very much so. Okay, well, look, listeners, this is us for another month. What we'd really like, though, is to understand what you'd like to hear from us. So we've got loads more topics that we can talk about from the report. We have got loads of things that come up on day to day basis, things that we work on that we can talk about. But if there's anything that you would like us to discuss, any questions that you'd like to ask us, we can happily make those into a podcast episode. So send me an email. It's kelly@rubbercheese.com. Just let me know what you're having challenges with. Yeah, any questions that you just would like us to cover as a topic and we can make that happen. Paul Marden: Awesome. I'd love to. I'm enjoying it. Kelly Molson: Me too. It's lovely to have a fellow guest. Fellow host.Paul Marden: I just got downgraded then. Kelly Molson: Who's the real host? Me, of course. It's lovely to be joined by a second host. Thank you, Paul. See you next month. Paul Marden: Bye. Bye. Kelly Molson: Thanks for listening to Skip The Queue. If you've enjoyed this podcast, please leave us a five star review. It really helps others find us. And remember to follow us on Twitter for your chance to win the books that have been mentioned. Skip the queue is brought to you by Rubber Cheese, a digital agency that builds remarkable systems and websites for attractions that helps them increase their visitor numbers. You can find show notes and transcriptions from this episode and more over on our website, rubbercheese.com/podcast.
ScareTrack- Thorpe Park Fright Nights / On-location Review Episode 2023 We visit the Thorpe Park Resort for their annual Fright Nights event. We experience their brand new maze STITCHES, along with returning mazes Survival Games and Trailers. Follow Thorpe Park Instagram: @thorpeparkofficial X(Twitter): @thorpepark Facebook: /Thorpe Park Official ...................................................................................................................... BOOK YOUR TICKETS HERE: https://www.thorpepark.com/explore/events/halloween-fright-nights/ ...................................................................................................................... Visit our website here: https://www.scaretrack.co.uk/ Watch our latest ScareCam vlogs: https://www.youtube.com/@ScareTrack ScareTrack merchandise can be found here: https://fleshnmetal.com/scaretrack?limit=25 Social Media Facebook.com/ScareTrack Instagram- @scaretrack Twitter- @scaretrack Snapchat- scaretrack Check out the Haunted Attraction Network here: https://hauntedattractionnetwork.com/ *Logo/Photo property of THORPE PARK
It is a one week countdown to Halloween and in honour of the Scouse tradition of Mizzy night, Abbey and Peter are getting their spook on!Fresh off the back of her first ever hen do - Abbey has had her own mischief weekend away with the girls and has left Pete to a weekend of paw patrol performances with the little ones. The pair also reminisce on some of their old antics around the spookiest time of year - eggs-be-athrowin and apples-be-adunkin! Cue feline inspired outfit ideas and fright nights at Thorpe Park too!The team are also on hand to help with your conundrums of the heart - with one woman advice on whether to stay in a relationship with no prospect of wedding bells as well as a listener who has been pushed to the edge by her husband's refusal to get involved in the weekly food shopEnjoy this week's, The Therapy Crouch!Our book The Therapy Crouch: In Search of a Happy (N)ever After is out NOW!! To order your copy got to
Now that the international break is over, James and Will are back ahead of Sunday's hugely anticipated trip to Villa Park. With both sides having ambitions of finishing in the top-seven this season, this is going to be a huge test and will give us some indication of what we might be able to achieve this term. Avoiding defeat away from home, especially at Villa Park, will be a good result, but all three will send a huge message to the other clubs who have the same ambitions as we do. Given the break, this is a shorter episode than normal but we did manage to fill some of the time discussing pumpkin picking and Thorpe Park, before Will put James on the spot once again with an invite to his birthday party next month. Also this week, we're joined by friend of the show, huge Villa fan and BBC journalist, Tim Warwood, who entertains us once more with his views on Villa, while he also introduces us to more of his family members! It's great to have proper football back! Remember, if you love what we do then PLEASE leave us a nice review on whatever platform you're listening on. It helps us more than you know and allows us to be found by new listeners, helping us grow even more!
In episode 12, we talk about our busy September of theme park days, pool time, staying at Universal's Cabana Bay Beach Resort, the super quick access to Volcano Bay, lots of theme park news like Journey of Water Inspired by Moana and the Disney 100 celebration coming to EPCOT, SeaWorld Orlando's new Penguin Trek family coaster announcement, Thorpe Park's new Hyperia announcement, soon to be the UK's tallest and fastest coaster, and share some thoughts about Halloween Horror Nights at Universal Orlando now that we're a little halfway into the event - oh, and bed bugs invading Paris! We are smack dab in the middle of fall and Halloween season and will be sharing more about what we get up to and an upcoming trip in the next episode! Thanks for listening!Jackie's YouTube channel: Super EnthusedSam's YouTube channel: Expedition Theme ParkFind us on social media at Super Enthused & Expedition Theme ParkEmail: expeditionenthused@gmail.comUse hashtag #expeditionenthused
Skip the Queue is brought to you by Rubber Cheese, a digital agency that builds remarkable systems and websites for attractions that helps them increase their visitor numbers. Your host is Kelly Molson, Founder of Rubber Cheese.Download the Rubber Cheese 2022 Visitor Attraction Website Report - the first digital benchmark statistics for the attractions sector.If you like what you hear, you can subscribe on iTunes, Spotify, and all the usual channels by searching Skip the Queue or visit our website rubbercheese.com/podcast.If you've enjoyed this podcast, please leave us a five star review, it really helps others find us. Show references: https://carbonsix.digital/https://www.linkedin.com/in/pmarden/Paul Marden is the Founder and Managing Director of Carbon Six Digital and the CEO of Rubber Cheese. He is an Umbraco Certified Master who likes to think outside the box, often coming up with creative technical solutions that clients didn't know were possible. Paul oversees business development and technical delivery, specialising in Microsoft technologies including Umbraco CMS, ASP.NET, C#, WebApi, and SQL Server. He's worked in the industry since 1999 and has vast experience of managing and delivering the technical architecture for both agencies and client side projects of all shapes and sizes. Paul is an advocate for solid project delivery and has a BCS Foundation Certificate in Agile. https://www.rubbercheese.com/https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellymolson/Kelly Molson is the Founder of Rubber Cheese, a user focused web design and development agency for the attraction sector. Digital partners to Eureka! The National Children's Museum, Pensthorpe, National Parks UK, Holkham, Visit Cambridge and The National Marine Aquarium.Kelly regularly delivers workshops and presentations on sector focused topics at national conferences and attraction sector organisations including ASVA, ALVA, The Ticketing Professionals Conference and the Museum + Heritage Show.As host of the popular Skip the Queue Podcast for people working in or working with visitor attractions, she speaks with inspiring industry experts who share their knowledge of what really makes an attraction successful.Recent trustee of The Museum of the Broads. Transcription: Kelly Molson: Welcome to Skip The Queue, a podcast for people working in or working with visitor attractions. I'm your host, Kelly Molson.In this new monthly slot, Rubber Cheese CEO Paul Marden joins me to discuss different digital related topics.In this episode, we're talking about the impact of design, navigation and content on selling tickets and how to go about testing if your design is working or not.If you like what you hear, you can subscribe on all the usual channels by searching Skip The Queue.Kelly Molson: We're doing something a little bit different on the podcast this season. So alongside the usual guest interviews, which we'll have each month, me and the Rubber Cheese CEO, Paul Marden are also going to be recording an episode on a different digital related topic. So we're going to do this once a month. Kelly Molson: Each of the episodes, we're going to share insight around design, user experience, content, accessibility, SEO and loads, loads more. We're going to talk a little bit about what's possible, give you some ideas about how easy or how hard that topic is to implement.Kelly Molson: Maybe what kind of budget that you might need to look at and what some of the next steps are to take if you want to implement some of these things. We're even going to call out some of the best in breed websites, people that are doing things really well within the sector.Kelly Molson: So I've been hosting the Skip the Queue podcast since July 2019. Goodness, that's been a long time. Five seasons in now. This is season five. You all know me already. So I am the founder of Rubber Cheese and my background is in design. Kelly Molson: I co founded Rubber Cheese back in 2003 after learning about ecommerce when I worked at a very early kind of Shopify type startup agency. The person that you don't know quite as well as me is my fellow host on this podcast. That's funny to say, that my fellow host is Paul Marden. So. Paul. Hello. Welcome. Paul Marden: Hello. Kelly Molson: This is strange. I'm going to have to share the spotlight for a while, that's very uncomfortable for me. No, it will be fine."It will be fine", she says. Paul, I would love it if you could give us a little intro to yourself. Kelly Molson: I know your background and I know you very well. We've known each other for about, I think it's about 14 years now. It's been a long time, hasn't it?Paul Marden: Yeah. Not long after I started doing this as a proper job. Kelly Molson: Well, there you go. Tell us about what your proper job is. Paul Marden: Yeah, so I'm the CEO of Rubber Cheese now, alongside another agency that I run called Carbon Six, which we merged Carbon Six and Rubber Cheese just over a year ago. My background is as a geek. I'm a developer by training. I started out ten years at British Airways, all over the airline, doing all different sorts of IT related jobs. So I saw lots of operational side of things, commercial sides of the airline, say, selling tickets, that kind of thing. I don't know if I've told you, but my first visitor attraction job was a long time ago, because when I was at Uni, I did a placement at the National Botanic Garden of Wales when it first opened. So I was there when it was a hole in the ground and I helped them write their IT strategy. Paul Marden: So my visitor attraction experience predates my involvement in Rubber Cheese. Kelly Molson: I did not know that. So you've done geek stuff for attractions. Paul Marden: For a long time. Yeah, it was amazing. I can still remember I was in an office in a farmhouse as they were building the giant glass house. It was just the most amazing place and I've not been back for a long time. It would be amazing to go and see the place, how it's transformed in the, what is it, 24 years since I was there? God, I really sound old now, don't I? Kelly Molson: You do sound old. I'm just wondering if they still use the IT plan that you put in place for them. Paul Marden: Probably not. I was only a student at the time. It can't have been amazing. Kelly Molson: So what we normally do on the podcast, listeners, as you well know, is I ask my guests a series of uncomfortable questions, icebreaker questions, which they very graciously answer beautifully for me. We're not going to do that on this episode. Ha. So we thought, yeah, Paul has wiped his brow in a state of relief there. But what we thought we would do is Paul and I both visit a lot of visitor attractions, both professionally and in our personal life as well. We've both got daughters at very different ages, so Millie is coming up for I think, 9.Paul Marden: 10 in two weeks' time. Kelly Molson: Okay. And my little one is 2. So we're going to very different visitor attractions right now. But we thought we would talk about the attraction that we visited most recently and what we loved about it, and we thought we'd ask each other that question. So I am going to ask you that question first, Paul. What attraction have you visited most recently and what did you love about it? Paul Marden: So we just finished the summer holidays, so went away for just over a week to the Netherlands. We did visit a few different attractions whilst were there, but went to an amazing place. We went back to it, actually, it was one that we've been to before called Burger's Zoo. So I loved the whole experience of going there the first time around and we wanted to go back there. It's an amazing place. But the reason why I was going to call it out today was a conversation that we've been having and something that we've done with Kitten Museums in terms of the food offering. Because when you go to Burger's Zoo, the restaurant is amazing. We've talked recently about the sorts of food that you get at visitor attractions and your frustration around this. Lots of fried food. Paul Marden: There's never any healthy food. So went to Burger Zoo, we had lunch and of course, there'd be obligatory portion of chips there if you want to have it. Lots of kids food there, but I was able to have a massive great salad. It was in enormous and it was lovely and healthy and really enjoyable and it didn't cost the earth when you were there. And it's so unusual to talk about going to an attraction and getting that kind of quality of food without spending the earth in doing it. So, yeah, that was pretty cool. Kelly Molson: That is cool. This is probably a whole another podcast episode to talk about that. I think actually, in your intro, you forgot to mention that you are a Trustee for the Kids in Museums, which is quite a new role for you, isn't it? But it's one that kind of immersed you into the world of attraction. I think that's been a good one for you. They have set up a brilliant scheme, which is kind of an accreditation scheme for attractions to go through, just to check into how healthy and how great their food offering actually is, which I think is brilliant. It's really weird. Kelly Molson: The day that they launched it, I was having a like, literally the day before, I was having a conversation on LinkedIn about how atrocious the food offering had been at an attraction that I went to, which is one of the top ten most visited attractions in the UK. It's a great place. It really is a brilliant place, especially if you've got toddler. However, the food was pretty horrendous and I've got an unusual toddler in that. Well, she will eat chips now, she will eat chippies, but she won't eat fried stuff or battered things or anything like that. She's just not interested.Paul Marden: Nothing beige.Kelly Molson: Not really, even pasta has to be, she should have been an Italian, she should have seen the amount of pasta that she wolf down when were over there. But it's got to be good. Kelly Molson: It's got to be good. Yeah, she is particularly fussy toddler. But just for myself, I mean, just the range of food that was available that day was just dreadful. I mean, the healthiest thing that was on the menu that Lee and I both had was jacket potatoes and I think I took a picture of it somewhere and it was too awful to put on social media. So, yes, that is well needed and I'm glad that attraction stood out on the food front for you. Paul Marden: What about you? Where have you been recently? Kelly Molson: I've been to lots of different places recently, but this one I can't stop thinking about and so I want to talk about it today and it's not one that I visited with Edie. It's one that I visited with a fellow attractions professional a little while ago, but it's the Beamish Living Museum. I honestly can't stop thinking about it. It's the first living museum that I've been to, so it's the first experience of that for me. And I had such an emotional reaction to it. I'm a bit embarrassed, actually. So I went to meet a couple of people. I met one person that I'd met briefly at a conference before, and then I met one of their colleagues who I'd never met before in my life. And I actually had a bit of a cry to this colleague because it was so emotive. Kelly Molson: If anyone who hasn't been to Beamish Living Museum, there's lots of different areas that you can visit, and one of them is a 1950s area and they essentially recreate what it was like in the 1950s, where the museum is located. And it brought back so many memories of my grandparents, both sets of grandparents, for different reasons. The house was very similar to my grandparents on my father's side and just down to some of the things that they had in that space. And I just got overwhelmed by it. It was so wonderful to go back and see that. And in my head all the time I was thinking, well, both my sets of grandparents are no longer with us. They passed away when I was in my early twenties. And so Edie will never get to meet her great grandparents on that side. And I thought, God, how amazing would it be for me to bring here and say, show her some of the things that great granny used to have in her house and yeah, just lost it. Paul Marden: It's interesting, isn't it, that you can become so immersed that even now the emotional attachment that you've built when you were there takes you straight back there. Because there's a risk, isn't there, with those sorts of places of it feeling a little bit plastic and fake, isn't it? But this clearly had an emotional impact on you. Kelly Molson: Yeah, I think for me, I was worried that it would be people in costumes. It would feel like that. And it did not feel like that at all. It just felt so authentic. Anyway, you've got to go. I don't want to cry for the rest of this podcast, but yeah, it's definitely a must visit for me, it was something really special. Paul Marden: Excellent. Kelly Molson: Should we move on to what we're going to talk about? And I'll compose myself, shall we?Paul Marden: Okay, moving swiftly on.Kelly Molson: Let's. So in this episode, we're going to talk about the impact of design, navigation and content on selling tickets and how we go about testing if it's working or not. So this episode actually launches on the 4th of October, which is one day after we release the 2023 Visitor Attraction website report. There's data that has come out of this year's report that is so insightful and I cannot wait for everybody to get this year's report. It dives deeper into a lot of the topics that we talked about in the first report last year, but there's just so much more to it and I'm very excited about it.Kelly Molson: Anyway, looking at the data from the report, a 100% of the attractions that took part think that having consistent design and clear navigation is important, which is brilliant. Big tick there. However, many of them don't think that their site meets the need and some of them think it does, but they don't test that it does. There's some really interesting stats about testing that we're going to talk about in a minute that have actually blew my mind a little bit. But one good stat around the design is that 76% of respondents believe that their websites were consistently designed despite using multiple platforms in their customer journey. Kelly Molson: And this is something that we talked about quite frequently in that sometimes there's a big disconnect if you are using if you've got your website that's built and designed in WordPress for example, and then you've got your ticketing platform and the two don't look like each other, they're not consistent, they're incongruent. That can be a bit of a challenge for people in terms of trust and how they feel about your brand. Paul Marden: It can be a jarring experience, can't it? Kelly Molson: Yeah, absolutely. Responses this year once again saw that websites that look good and are easy to use are doing far better than those that don't prioritise consistency. So I'm just going to read out this snippet from the report. We saw that websites that were high scoring for their design and navigation made more sales over the past twelve months. So those successful websites had around 200,000 to 500,000 completed transactions. Whereas on the other hand, websites with lower design and navigation scores didn't do as well, stating that they had below 50,000 completed transactions in the last month. That's quite fascinating, isn't it? Paul Marden: It is. This is not just a handful of people that are answering, is it? Because there's a large number of people that are answering that this is important to them and that they think they're doing quite well. And then you see how their perception of doing well correlates really strongly with the actual outcomes of the site itself. Kelly Molson: Yeah, I think that the way that we asked the questions this year is interesting as well. So when I talked then about we said that websites that were high scoring for design and navigation, we gave respondents the options to score their website. So we gave them how well designed do you think your site is? Between 1 and 10, 10 being the highest. So we allowed them to kind of self score. But it's interesting because some of those self scores don't correlate to the data that we then took. So those scores, they're based mostly on assumption, which is always a difficult, challenging place to be. But I think, Paul, you had some insight here around the conversion rate and design and how they tally up. Paul Marden: So the stats you just talked about were about the volume of transactions. You could say that having good design leads you to have more transactions flowing through your website, but you could also say that the organisations that have more transactions flowing through their website can afford to spend more money on design. But what I found interesting was that when you ignore the absolute number of sales that they make on the website, if you actually look at what their conversion rate is on the website, the attractions who think they have good design tend to have a higher conversion rate by about 1% or 2%. Now, that could be on a low base. Paul Marden: There could be a fairly small attraction that has fewer people coming to it, but they still perform relatively better than those attractions that didn't think they had good design but could be massive organisations with large numbers of transactions flowing through. And what I found interesting is we started to work out what is the value of 1 or 2% extra conversion rate, because it doesn't sound like much. Really. There's somebody in the business that doesn't necessarily understand the technology side of it that doesn't sound like a lot. So we started playing with converting that into money. What could that actually be worth? So we played around with we tried to model what is our average attraction and what is the absolute top performing attraction. Paul Marden: And even for our average, an increase of 1% in conversion rate could mean tens of thousands of pounds of extra sales that they make. But for the top performing attraction, it could make the difference of hundreds of thousands of pounds of extra sales just by squeezing 1 or 2% of extra conversion rate out. I think that's absolute gold dust in terms of insight that we've drawn out of this data. The organisations that think they have good design tend to have a conversion rate of 1 or 2% more, which could equate to tens of hundreds of thousands of pounds of extra sales that they make. It makes you begin to think that investment in the design of the site could actually be really worthwhile. Kelly Molson: Absolutely. And information like that helps the marketing managers build the case for good design and investing in good design. Paul Marden: Yeah. And before you say, "Oh, the large organisations with the big budgets, they can afford to do this, what about the small ones?" The smaller organisations with small budgets who had good navigation tended to be the ones that would have the better conversion rate amongst their peers. So you don't need to be a nationally recognised attraction brand to be able to invest an appropriate amount of money in design and get a return on that investment that you make. Kelly Molson: I always think that the best use of budget is on the pre planning side, which is unusual coming from a designer, I think. Yeah. But Paul, you're really data driven, aren't you? You're super data driven. Paul Marden: Such a geek. Kelly Molson: Yeah, you are a massive geek. Massive nerd. We're very complimentary, but I never used to be very data driven. I was always far more visual driven. But actually well, I'm not going to share it on this podcast, actually, because I'm going to share it at a talk that I'm given. But I've got a really good story around why user testing is very important. We'll come a bit more onto that later. And why you should be driven by the data and the stats and not just by what something looks like. Okay, let's talk about navigation quickly as part of this design section. So it's really interesting. So we've actually got some findings from the Journal of Market Research. Kelly Molson: So they state that, when websites are easy to understand and navigate, individuals have a lower cognitive load, so fewer things to work out, and therefore are more likely to have a positive experience to go on to purchase. So having a consistent and well designed website can really help people make complete purchases with your visitor attraction. What I've always said, it's about trying to stop making people think, give them something that is really easy. So I think when we worked with Eureka!, and this is back in 2016, when we first worked with them, we did some research around what people wanted to find out about attractions, what were the first things they needed to know about. And it was literally, when you open, how much do you cost? How can I get there? Kelly Molson: So, if they're the three things that people desperately need to know, they're the three things that really need to be highlighted front and centre when you arrive at the site, wherever you arrive at it, whether that's the homepage or what. And it's the same with navigation. People need to understand where they're being taken and why they're being taken to certain places. So we're working with an attraction at the moment, we've just about to start work with them. They have got some really key, really strong elements to their Nav, but then they've got an area that says more, and there's a load of stuff that's been added onto the more section, and things like this happen over time. Kelly Molson: When you've got a website, people will say, “I need this to be featured on the site, I need this page to put up there”, and it gets added to, and ultimately you end up with all these things that haven't been thought about from the start, about where they're supposed to go. So they get kind of bundled somewhere, and a more section kind of feels an obvious place to put them. But what is it? Users don't understand what's in there. And they're not going to go searching for hours to find something that they want. They need to find it quickly. And so that for me, is a huge no about bundling stuff into these kind of sections. That just so ambiguous, you don't know what they are. Paul Marden: I think that figuring out what people are trying to do, what are they trying to get out of the website? I think that bundling exercise, putting lots of things onto the site that happened over time or putting it in a bucket of more is often there's so many people in an organisation that want their content heard and seen, don't they? Everybody wants their content on the site. It all goes on there. And sometimes you have to step back and think, what's the point? Who is it that's coming to the site and what are we trying to get them to do? We want the customer at the end of it to think, now that you've read this, what are you going to do next? But we don't always think about that journey. Paul Marden: We think about the snippets of information that we put onto the site, but we don't think about what the journey is they're going through. Attractions are really lucky. I think a lot of the people that go to their sites are really motivated to buy, a lot more motivated to buy than the average ecommerce site. So how do you get out of the way of those people so they can just buy stuff? And then for the people that are less motivated, they don't necessarily want to know how, when and how much they still want to be sold on the idea of going to the attraction, then maybe you need to give them more information. Paul Marden: But identifying who those people are and giving them a journey to go through and coming up with a navigation that makes it really easy for those people to navigate along that journey, there's a lot of psychology that's hard. That's your prep work, isn't it, before you do the design? Kelly Molson: Yeah, and it's the hardest part of it. And I think that's where the most amount of time needs to be spent there and the wireframes really, the design. If you've got good brand guidelines in place, the design ultimately becomes a simplified process at that point. But the pre design work is really where the time and effort needs to be spent. And I think it is a challenge for attractions. So there are attractions that are, if you compare a Chessington World of Adventures, for example, a theme park orientated to a historic museum that you're coming to visit, that not only is an attraction, but obviously has a lot of historical information to share and learning and education plays a big part in them as well. You have different audiences for those. Kelly Molson: So I think one part of that process is you need to think about all the different audiences you have and what are their motivations for visiting the site and what do you want them to do, what actions do you want them to take? But I think when you are working, this has gone off a bit of a tangent, but when you're working with an agency, I think what's really core for the attraction is to make sure that you've got key stakeholders from each of those areas of your attraction that play a part in those early conversations. So you don't want the site redesign to be driven solely by the marketing team for the attraction side. You need someone from the education side to be part of those conversations as well. Kelly Molson: You need visitor experience to be part of those conversations because if you're planning content, each of those individuals will have a different need for what content they need to showcase on the site. So they all need to be talking to each other about how that's going to look. I'm talking from experience because this has not happened in the past. Paul's nodding his head at me because he knows that we've had this challenge previously.Paul Marden: Yeah. Kelly Molson: So yeah, and I think that kind of leads us nicely onto content, really, and about the need to frequently update your site and keep it refreshed. So once you've done all of that hard work of working out what content is going to be on it doesn't stay static. So in the report we have a stat that says 31% of respondents said that they updated their online content multiple times a week. That's good. Another 31% said that they did so at least once a month. Good. However, 22% of respondents said they had infrequent content updates or didn't update their content at all. Not updating your content at all. Paul Marden: That surprised me, that one. Yeah, I was surprised that there were 31% of respondents updated it multiple times a week. I was really impressed by that. Yeah. That takes some work, doesn't it? To be able to produce that level of content change, but to do it infrequently or not at all, that surprised me. Kelly Molson: I guess it depends on the attraction and what their offering is as well. Thinking about one of our clients, Holkham actually, so we know that Holkham update their website frequently. They have a lot of different events, they write a lot of really incredible content about what happens across Holkham Estate. So they're engaging with the audience from the perspective of someone coming to visit and what they can do on the day and what they can come and see. But they're also talking about their wider sustainability efforts across the state and what they do and how they focus on that, which again, might be for that same audience. Might be for a slightly different audience as well. Kelly Molson: So the volume of content that they produce is a lot higher than potentially Thorpe Park as a visitor, they will talk about what's on that day and maybe an events that they're running, but they might not talk about the same things that are going on across the Estate that Holkham would, for example. So I think, yeah, it's what your attraction offers. Paul Marden: Holkham's a really good example because they can take inspiration from the place. They're very diverse, they've got lots of different things that they do at that location. It's quite a large location, but there's lots of different things going on and those things are inside and outside. They can take inspiration from the season. So there's a lot of inspiration that you can take there and produce. Just off the top of my head, I could think of lots of different stories that you could tell and changes to the site that can be inspired by the season. But then I think about a theme park where there's lots that goes on. I think I've done lots of trips to Legoland. There's Legoland at Halloween. There's Legoland in Spring time. It changes through the seasons and there's a lot of story around that. Paul Marden: I wonder if you're an indoor attraction, if you're Heritage Museum based, there's going to be lots of stories that you can tell about the items that you've got in your collection. But it might be harder to tell those stories influenced by the seasons, which can be a real driver for telling varying stories throughout a year, can't they? Yeah, but I don't write a lot of stories for those sorts of organisations, so maybe I don't have the right view of the world, but I would imagine it would be a lot harder to write lots of content varying through the year for that sort of organisation. Kelly Molson: Yes, probably so I'm just thinking about it would just be a change in topic, wouldn't it? So I know Blackpool Pleasure Beach, who Andy Hygate, the Operations Director, came on the podcast a couple of seasons ago, actually, and he talked about the experiences they've developed around walking up the big one and the rise that they have there. And actually, I think for people that are interested in theme parks, there's probably a lot of content around how things are built and how they're developed and that kind of side of stuff that people would be really interested in. So it's not talking about seasonal stuff, it's about the things and how they're constructed and how they're designed and kind of stuff like that. Kelly Molson: So, yeah, again, it comes back to just knowing your audience and what are they interested in and how you can engage them and what are your potential new audiences as well, and how can you develop content that attracts them. There is a correlation between content and purchases, though, which is quite interesting. So our report shows that those who were deliberate in ensuring their content was kept fresh and engaging saw an average of 25 to 50,000 completed website purchases a year, whereas those who didn't, on average, had around 10,000 completed purchases. In the same time frame. That's interesting. In addition, of the respondents who recognised the need for regular content updates but weren't action in them, 23% stated that their average sales conversion rate sat between one and 4%, which is below the benchmark for the sector. Kelly Molson: So the sector benchmark is 5% now, so that 1% is significantly low. Paul Marden: Absolutely. Shall we move on and talk about some testing? Because I know you think this one really is. Kelly Molson: Oh, yeah, I really do. So there is a statistic in the report that I had to reread a few times, actually, to believe. So last year's survey and report, we had about 70 attractions take part. This year has been significantly more than that. We got 188 attractions from up and down the UK and Europe take part, which was incredible.Paul Marden: And one in North America as well. I was really excited when I saw that one. Kelly Molson: Yes, we went international. That was exciting. Okay, so think about this: 188 attractions took part in this. 70% of the respondents have never conducted user testing of any kind on their website. 70%! That's actually not the worst stat though. I'm going to save the worst stat for another episode, but that's not the one that shocked me the most. But this one is really surprising. We've talked a bit about making assumptions about how well your website is perceived by people.Kelly Molson: Hard data from actual users is the key to designing a website that has an improved user experience because it can clarify problem areas and identify where most effort is needed to create a really great online experience. So if you're not asking your users how they're interacting with the site and do they like it? Can they buy things well? Can they find what they want? How do you know if it's good or not? It's blown my mind. Paul Marden: It's really hard, isn't it? Really hard. Kelly Molson: And I think it's really you wrote this down, actually. It's really important to be aware of a familiarity bias. So just because you think your website is easy to navigate doesn't mean other people think is it's because you're familiar with it so you understand where things are. Which is really interesting. Actually, I've just been reminded of a conversation that I had with somebody when I was at an attraction. Now I can't name this attraction, we're working with them and we're under NDA, but they asked me about a website that we'd redesigned. They said, "Oh, you did this website, didn't you?" I said, "Yes", "I can't find this thing anymore that I couldn't find. It took me ages to find it before" and I was like, "All right, what is the thing?" And he talked about what it was. Kelly Molson: I said, "Oh, well, it would be in this area". And he said, "Yeah, which makes sense. But before it was over here and I knew where it was and it just feels a bit weird now." I said, "Do you think it was in the right place before?". "Oh, no, shouldn't have been." Okay. So it's just because you know where it is doesn't mean it's actually in the right place. It's just what you get used to over the years. Paul Marden: It is incredibly hard to put yourself into the position of the person that knows nothing about your organisation. Trying to imagine what the customer is going through takes a lot of effort and I think that you can get data to be able to do that. But a lot of there's kind of levels of kind of understanding of that, putting yourself into that customer's position, the empathy that is required. Lots of people that we meet and work with will talk about how they want their site to be structured and what makes sense to them. Some people then will go the next stage and think about what they think their customer wants. And then there's a stage beyond that which is not even trying to put themselves into the customer position, but actually test what the customer thinks. Paul Marden: It's really hard to have the empathy to understand. If you know nothing, what would you do? And there's loads of stuff that you can do. I'm sure we'll come on to that later on to try to understand and test. But just sitting somebody down and watching them go from zero to hero and buying your tickets is a valuable thing that you could do, couldn't it? Kelly Molson: Yeah, absolutely. Now the report on the survey is anonymous. All the data that we get from it, we don't talk about the people that have submitted it and we don't talk about them. There was a number of websites within the data set that were doing really well in terms of both design and navigation and the impact that they were having on their conversion rate. So we reached out to these organisations to ask if we could talk about them today. And all of them were very happy for us to talk about it. So we have had their permission. I think I'll hand over to you, Paul, because you've been doing the analysis over on these sites. It's really lovely to see that Roman Baths are on this list.Paul Marden: They're on the list.Kelly Molson: Because they have been on the podcast and they're our podcast alumni. So that was good.Paul Marden: Yeah, more than once, I think, as well. Kelly Molson: Yes, they have been. Paul Marden: What I went looking for were who were the organisations that thought that they had good design and navigation in their site? But I didn't think that was really enough because of course you could think that it was good and it isn't very good. So what could I dig into the data to try to pull apart the people that thought they had good design and following through from that good design actually had good outcomes. And Roman Baths was up there in that top set of organisations that had they thought they had a good, consistent high quality design, but they also had a conversion rate up there in the top ratings that we had inside the data set. Obviously, Roman Baths really well known organisation, lots of international visitors will be going there. Paul Marden: There was another that I pulled out in the data set, which was also a really high profile brand. London Zoo came out in that top set. Kelly Molson: Also past podcast guests. Thank you. Yes, lovely people. Paul Marden: So they also thought they had good, consistent design, but coincidentally also had good quality conversion rates up there in the top performance in the data set. But to avoid you saying to me, "Oh, but all these are all big, internationally recognised brands. What's design got to do with it?" Up there we've got Roman Baths, London Zoo. Big, well known brands. But there's also some organisations that I wasn't familiar with in that data set. So there were organisations that are probably more regional, less internationally well recognised brands. And one of those that considered that they had good quality design and they also had high levels of conversion rates. Alongside that were Smithwick's experience in Kilkenny in Ireland. It's an attraction that is a brewery tour. I thought that one was really interesting when I went and looked at it. Paul Marden: It was really easy to navigate around the site, ridiculously easy to go and buy tickets. You go onto the site, it's right there to be able to buy those tickets, to go to that experience. So I think that told me that you didn't need to be a big, well recognised brand to be able to devote the time and attention and budget that's needed to get a good design, which then has the impact on your conversion rates. Yeah, this is not just for the big brands. This is also for other brands, smaller, regional brands that can maybe not devote the same levels of investment to it that a large organisation can, but they can still have good outcomes and good design. Kelly Molson: Yeah. And I think it's fair to say we do ask questions in the report about budget, but we don't ask them specifically. So we haven't asked. We don't, for example, know the investment that Roman Barths, London Zoo or Smithwicks have made in their website to get it to where it is now. We literally have no idea. So their budgets could be phenomenally big, they could be phenomenally small. We have no idea whatsoever. But we know that they have invested in good design and they've done it to a really great standard, which means it's easy for people to make purchases. Therefore their sales are sitting at a really great level. Kelly Molson: The Roman Baths I just a little shout out to Simon Addison, actually, because Simon did come on to the podcast a couple of times now, and actually he came onto a recent episode where we talked about the value of this report and the survey that we carry out. And this is its second year now and we can see the value in terms of the data that we've been able to glean from it is so much more insightful this year. The key insights themselves are much more in depth than they were last year. But one thing that Simon mentioned is that we don't work with Roman Baths. I've made that clear on the last podcast. We didn't design their website. We've not worked with them. Kelly Molson: They did use the report to inform some of the decisions that they made about designing their website and making changes to it, which I think is so great. Right. The report is actually actively doing what we set out for it to do. Regardless of whether anyone comes to work with us or not. Someone can take this report and use the insights from it to inform their current agency to make changes to their site that are going to make a significant difference to their bottom line. Well done, us. Paul Marden: Well done, us. But well done, everyone that's responded as well. Kelly Molson: Whatever. Well done, us. Well done, everyone. Thank you. Paul Marden: So I just think it's really impressive, isn't it, that we've got what was it you said? 180 something respondents from across the sector.Kelly Molson: 188.Paul Marden: It's so hard in a tough industry. There's lots of industries where people would not work together. And this is a collaborative exercise in sharing your data that takes a certain confidence within the sector to be able to be willing to share that information so that then somebody like us can then do the graph that aggregating that and seeing the interesting stories that people can then use to make things better. There's so many places where you would not see that happen.Kelly Molson: It's a wonderful part of the sector, that collaboration and that willingness to share and be open about things. Right, let's talk about next steps then, because we've talked about some of the items within design, navigation, testing. We've talked about who's doing it well. Let's wrap this up with next steps that you can take. Kelly Molson: If you think some of these things are relevant to you and you want to do something about them. Do some testing. Do some testing and you can do that in a variety of ways. Paul Marden: Do you want me to test some stuff? Kelly Molson: Let's do some testing. Let's test. Look, there's loads of ways that you can do user testing if you're going through the process of a redesign at the moment. Go back to your wireframes, make them interactive. Do some internal testing, do some external testing. You can do this in multiple ways so you can do focus groups, get bums on seats in front of computers and give them some things that you want them to do on your site. Don't tell them how to do it, but just give them some things that you want them to achieve. I want you to buy a ticket. I want you to tell me how easy it is to go and find the interactive map. I want you to find a blog post and can you get from the blog post to buying a ticket, some of those things. Kelly Molson: This doesn't need to cost you a huge amount of money, right? You all have an asset in that. "Hey, would you like a free ticket to our venue if you come and do some testing for us?" Put on a little bit of lunch, put on people are really happy to help and give you feedback in that way. So that doesn't need to be a huge cost at all. You can use online tools, so we use tools like UserTesting.com. You can select a certain demographic that you want to test out and you upload what you want them to test. And then they go off and they do it, and they record videos, and you can see how they interact and they talk through what they're doing and how easy it was for them to do those things as well. Kelly Molson: They are not a huge, costly I actually don't know off the top of my head. There will be a fee to use the system, which will be a monthly fee and then there'll be a fee probably for that will cover X amount of tests within that monthly fee. So it will probably be from what, 150, maybe a month, something like that, maybe a bit more. Paul Marden: The cost depends as well on factors, how many factors you place on the do you only want people to do user testing that are of a particular demographic and age? If your attraction has mainly parents with young kids coming, do you want your user testing to be done only by parents with young kids? When you add more constraints to it, the cost of doing it becomes higher. But arguably the quality of the data that you get back from the testing is more relevant to you. Kelly Molson: You can do this with I've talked about going back to the wireframe stage. You can do this at any point. So great, do a load of testing before you go ahead and release something to the world. But if you've got something that's up and running now, do some testing. So you can do user testing on what you already have. You can do exit surveys so you can ask people once they've bought a ticket, you can ask them how easy that was. What did you find difficult? What were your challenges at the end of your purchasing journey? So there's small little things you can do there. Paul Marden: The world has changed a lot, hasn't it? In the last few years we've moved to almost exclusively online sales beforehand. So we've got this massive pool of data, of contact information of the people that have bought your tickets. That's such a great resource that you could use, which in previous years pre pandemic it would have been a struggle because a large chunk of your people would have been walk ins who you didn't necessarily it wasn't easy to capture those sorts of contact details and follow up with them. Kelly Molson: Yeah, exactly. And then I think there are things that you can do in terms of looking at your user experience and the design side of things. We do things like UX reviews for people. We actually offered one as a prize for all of the people that entered the survey this year and the lovely people at Cheddar Gorge won that. We're going to be looking at that in a couple of months for them. Paul Marden: Back near my home proper, that's Cheddar Gorge is where I went as a kid, like, so that's exciting to be. Kelly Molson: In that we'll be carrying that out later on in the year for them. So, yeah, there's things that you can do in terms of working with an agency to look at what your user journeys look like. Are they correct for the audience that you have? Does your design flow? Where are the barriers that you're seeing? And again, if you're looking at some of the data of where you're seeing people drop off, is that a design issue, is that a function issue? How do we work those things out? Paul Marden: There's loads of tools, isn't there, as well, like Hotjar that you can stick on, which doesn't cost a lot of money. And it's not just Hotjar, there are lots of other tools just like it which would give you insight into the behaviour of the users on the site. It's just a snapshot that you get for free, but that snapshot could really help inform decision making about maybe I need to make it easier for them to find the button because they're finding it hard to book tickets or whatever. Kelly Molson: Because they can't see where they need to book their tickets. Paul Marden: Yeah. Kelly Molson: So, yeah, I think in summary, do some testing is what I'm going to end this podcast episode with. Do some testing, come back and tell us what you find.Paul Marden: Exciting. I'd love to have those conversations. Kelly Molson: As ever, if you want to get in touch with either of us, all of our contact details are in the Show Notes. If anything has sparked your interest that we've talked about today, we're really happy to answer any questions and things like that. So if you do want to ask any questions about any of the kind of stats that we've talked about, again, just our email addresses will be in the Show Notes. And also, if you haven't downloaded the report yet, why not? Because it's out. It launched yesterday. We did a webinar. Did you come to it? Why not? If not, but if you do want to go and download the report, we'll put the link to that in the Show Notes as well. But just head over to the rubbercheese.com website and you'll be able to find it. We'll see you next time. Paul Marden: Awesome. Thank you. Kelly Molson: Thanks for listening to Skip the Queue. If you've enjoyed this podcast, please leave us a five star review. It really helps others find us. And remember to follow us on Twitter for your chance to win the books that have been mentioned. Skip The Queue is brought to you by Rubber Cheese, a digital agency that builds remarkable systems and websites for attractions that helps them increase their visitor numbers. You can find show notes and transcriptions from this episode and more over on our website, rubbercheese.com/podcast.
Skip the Queue is brought to you by Rubber Cheese, a digital agency that builds remarkable systems and websites for attractions that helps them increase their visitor numbers. Your host is Kelly Molson, Founder of Rubber Cheese.Download the Rubber Cheese 2022 Visitor Attraction Website Report - the first digital benchmark statistics for the attractions sector.If you like what you hear, you can subscribe on iTunes, Spotify, and all the usual channels by searching Skip the Queue or visit our website rubbercheese.com/podcast.If you've enjoyed this podcast, please leave us a five star review, it really helps others find us. And remember to follow us on Twitter for your chance to win the books that have been mentioned in this podcastCompetition ends on 20th December 2023. The winner will be contacted via Twitter.Show references: https://vacevents.com/THURSDAY 5TH OCTOBER – QEII CONFERENCE CENTRE, WESTMINSTERhttps://vacevents.com/committee/ Bernard Donoghue OBECEO & Director, ALVA, the Association of Leading Visitor Attractions, Mayor of London's Culture Ambassador. Co-Chair, London Tourism Recovery Board.https://www.alva.org.uk/https://www.linkedin.com/in/bernard-donoghue-obe-0aa9b97/ Bernard has been the Director of ALVA, the UK's Association for Leading Visitor Attractions, since 2011 following a career in advocacy, communications, and lobbying, latterly at a senior level in the tourism and heritage sector. In 2017, the Mayor of London, Sadiq Khan, appointed Bernard to be the Mayor's Ambassador for Cultural Tourism and a member of the Mayor's Cultural Leadership Board. Bernard is Co-Chair of the London Tourism Recovery Board. He is also Chairman of LIFT, London International Festival of Theatre; Chairman of the Bristol Old Vic, the oldest continually operating theatre in the English-speaking world, and also of the People's History Museum, the Museum of Democracy. He has been a member of the UK Government's Tourism Industry Council since 2016. Bernard was named by Blooloop in 2020 as one of the world's 50 most influential people in museums, and in July 2021 won the public vote for the COVID Special Recognition Award from the UK Museums and Heritage Awards for his service to, and leadership of the museums and heritage sector in the UK during the pandemic. Ken Robinson CBE FTS - Founder of VAChttps://www.linkedin.com/in/ken-robinson-cbe-fts-bb811312/Ken is an independent adviser who speaks and writes on tourism topics. As a "tourism enthusiast" he aims to be a pragmatic pioneer of new initiatives, strategies and solutions to optimise the economic, cultural and social benefits of tourism. Ken's Consultancy companies completed over 1500 assignments, mostly in the UK but also several hundred international projects, beginning over 50 years ago, before the days of mass tourism. He was a founding member of the Tourism Society and supported the formation of the Tourism Alliance, both of which organisations he has served as a board member and Chair, as he has on several other Tourism bodies. Specialising initially in visitor attractions, Ken initiated and subsequently chaired the National Visitor Attractions Conference, VAC, and has been on its Committee ever since. In addition to many clients in the public, private and third sectors, he has advised the UN's International Trade Centre, on national and regional Tourism strategy development. His current focus is to move the industry's thinking from marketing to the critical need to manage future tourism for the benefit of host communities, and to optimise tourist's experiences. Ken was appointed CBE for services to Tourism in 1997, and an Honorary Doctorate in 2014. Paul KellyChief Executive, BALPPA, Chair of VAC https://www.balppa.org/https://www.linkedin.com/in/paul-kelly-2714a922/Having been with BALPPA for 11 years and working with VAC for that amount of time as well, Paul started his career in the attractions sector at Thorpe Park in the 80's and then moved on to the London Eye for its opening around the millennium. He has always been involved with visitor attractions. Several more years working within Merlin followed both in the UK and abroad, mainly on business development. Being a BALPPA member for 30 years means, being Chair of the organising committee at VAC keeps Paul in touch with all aspects of the attractions industry. Liz Terry MBEManaging Director, Leisure Media Grouphttps://www.linkedin.com/in/elizterry/ Janet Uttley Head of Business Transformation for VisitEnglandhttps://www.linkedin.com/in/janetuttley/ Transcriptions: Kelly Molson: Welcome to Skip The Queue, a podcast for people working in or working with visitor attractions. I'm your host, Kelly Molson. Season 5 kicks off today with not one, not two, but three excellent guests.On today's episode, I have the pleasure of speaking to Bernard Donoghue, Paul Kelly and Ken Robinson, founders of the Visitor Attractions Conference. You also know Bernard as, Director of ALVA and Paul as CEO of BALPPA.VAC celebrates its 20th anniversary this year and I'm finding out where the idea for the event spanned from, how it's changed and developed over the years. And we take a look ahead to what 2024 has in store for the attraction sector.Unfortunately, fellow Founder; Liz Terry, the Managing Director of Leisure Media Group, and also Janet Uttley, Head of Business Transformation for VisitEngland, were unable to join us on this episode. But stay tuned for lots of insight and to find out how you can get your ticket for the VAC conference this year.Kelly Molson: If you like what you hear, you can subscribe on all the usual channels by searching Skip the Queue.Kelly Molson: Bernard, Ken, Paul, it is a treat to have you all on the podcast today. Thank you for joining me. I think this is the first time I've had three guests as well, so this could be interesting. Bernard Donoghue: And three men as well. I mean, it's like a really bad testosterone banana rama, isn't it? Really. Kelly Molson: I'm just a little flower in the middle of you thorns today. Yes, it's a real shame. So, unfortunately, Janet Uttley and Liz Terry couldn't make it along to join us today, which is a shame. But I'm sure that they will get lots of mentions as we talk through some of the things that we're going to chat about today. But first, as ever, I want to start with a little icebreaker. I'm going to ask you all the same thing because I'm intrigued as to whether you ended up doing what you thought you might. So, Ken, I'm going to start with you first. When you were at school, what did you think that you'd grow up and be when you were older? Ken Robinson: I didn't know. Kelly Molson: Had no clue at all? Ken Robinson: No, I didn't have a clue. I was lucky to have a good education. I didn't work at school. And then I got into a job, which was I was very successful at it and it was very boring. So I left. And when I discovered tourism and visitor attractions, it took me over. I didn't decide to do it. It told me that was it. Kelly Molson: Oh, I love it. It's like a calling. Ken Robinson: At the time it was, I was actually sitting in a turret room which had been vacated by Lord Montague. His desk used to face in and I liked that because I didn't have to look at the faces of the visitors going past who might complain, because in those days, buli was very expensive. And then one day I thought to myself, these people are investing their hard earned money and leisure time in making a decision to come here and it's our job to make sure they have a good time. And I turned my desk round and I looked at them all day long and the moment I turned my desk round, everything changed. Kelly Molson: I love that, because you could see the whites of their eyes and how they were engaging with the venue as they turned up. Ken Robinson: Well, it's just such a failure, isn't it? If you've got somebody who makes a choice and spends their time and money, a family decision for many people, and it should be a highlight. And if it isn't, whose fault is it? It's probably the fault of the visitor attraction, given that the person has chosen to go there in not communicating well enough with them about what they've got and what they would find interesting. Kelly Molson: This is such a brilliant story and that wasn't where I was expecting this to go either, Ken. I love it. Paul, what about you, Paul?Paul Kelly: Yeah, I mean, when I was at school, I was interested in sports and that was it, really, and luckily, that dragged me through the various places I went to. But what I was going to end up doing sports. I think once you get into sports quite seriously, you realise fairly quickly that actually you're not going to make it, so you have to find something else. So, laterally, I decided that business was a good idea. So I started doing business studies up in North Wales and for some reason were doing a sandwich course in those days, I think it was called that. One of those, I got placed at Thorpe Park. I don't know why particularly, so there's a group of six of us went down to Thorpe Park to work there and I actually started working on the rides.Paul Kelly: I'm not sure what it had to do with business at the time, but I'm glad somebody thought it did. And I couldn't believe that was a job that you could do, you could be paid for, because I came from the north at that point and there wasn't an awful lot going on in the 80s and actually be paid. Everyone enjoyed themselves, fantastic atmosphere, parties every night. I'm sure it's still like that. And it was just amazing. And from that moment on, regardless of what happened after that, including other colleges, other bits and pieces, effectively, I never left. Kelly Molson: It's always going to be in that sector. Paul Kelly: Yes. Kelly Molson: Excellent. Great. Bernard, same to you. Bernard Donoghue: Well, this may come as a surprise, but my grandfather was in the Irish Guards, my father was in the Grenadier Guards, my brother was in the Royal Marines, and I had a very large collection of action men. I genuinely thought I would probably end up in the army. And actually, I got an offer after university to go into the Household Cavalry. I don't think I've ever told anyone this before. Anyway, it just clearly I didn't pursue the application. It wasn't for me at all. Got really into politics. So I started working in the House of Commons, House of Lords and the Council of Europe in Strasbourg, and then I've just been in sort of lobbying, campaigning, political world ever since. But I still miss the uniforms. Can't deny it. Kelly Molson: I think we'd like to see you in that uniform, Bernard, if I'm not going to lie. So from the lobbying aspect, which is obviously a really big part of the role that you currently have, how did the attractions bit kind of slot into those? Where did the two join up? Bernard Donoghue: It's a really odd coincidence. I was trustee of a charity that Diana, Princess of Wales, was a patron of, and I was working full time for a charity that she was a patron of. So when she divorced Prince of Wales, now the King, she reduced her patronages down from 187 to six. And I happened to be involved with six of them. I went to work for her as a deputy private secretary, press secretary. But of course, the moment she died, which was August 31st, I had no job. Suddenly I was unemployed. And I got contacted by a woman who Ken will certainly know, probably Paul will, too, by Sue Garland, who used to be Deputy Chief Executive of VisitBritain, who'd heard me speak at something and said, "Well, we're just about to create this post of government affairs liaison. Would you be interested to working on the role while working on what you do next?”Bernard Donoghue: And that was in August 1997. And here I am still. Ken Robinson: But also, can I add something to that? Because I was lucky enough to be sitting in the room on many occasions when Bernard would give his briefing at meetings that were held by VisitBritain. And it was always a highlight of the day because Bernard, in those days, never pulled his punches. I'm not saying he does now, but he would just explain to everybody in the room what was going on with all of the political parties, which we never understood, and explain what we ought to be doing in order to best put our case. So it was really no shock when he turned up at ALVA, because I would say this if he wasn't here, he was the star of the show there, and that expertise that he showed has blossomed in the job that he's doing now. Kelly Molson: This is lovely, isn't it? Aren't you all nice? Bernard Donoghue: This is love in.. Kelly Molson: Probably why you all work together, right? You will get on so well. Right, back to you, Ken. Unpopular opinion, please. Ken Robinson: Most visitor attractions do not deliver full value for money to most of their visitors. Kelly Molson: Okay, Paul and Bernard, do you agree with this? Will our listeners agree with this? Is this an unpopular opinion?Paul Kelly: Did you use the word most, Ken? Ken Robinson: I did. Paul Kelly: I'll go for some, not most. Bernard Donoghue: Yeah, I'll go for some as well. One of my favourite programmes is Yes, Minister. And whenever you'd hear something off the wall, bonkers, they would say, that's a very brave opinion, Minister. That's a very brave opinion, Ken.Ken Robinson: Now's not the time to justify it. I'll do that on another occasion. Kelly Molson: Yeah, we will invite you back and we can do that one on one, Ken. Paul, what about you? Unpopular opinion? Paul Kelly: Well, I'm guessing that anybody that's worked in a theme park will probably have the same opinion I have. So I worked at Thorpe Park, which was 450 acres, two thirds of which was water. And at the end of the day, when you were walking out, and in those days, that could be 9, 10 o'clock at night, it was beautiful. On a late summer's evening, calm waters, walking through a park which had just been cleaned and tidied and ready for the next day. It was fantastic. And we all had the same opinion once were down the pub discussing the day. It's just a shame we have to let people into theme parks because it's the absolutely beautiful place without them there. So sometimes people let the parks down. Kelly Molson: That's a good one. That is a good one. Yeah. And you don't want to let them in to see the beautiful bit either, do you? Because then there'd be people there. It wouldn't be serene. Paul Kelly: No, I mean, those evenings, if there was still time, we'd go windsurfing on the lakes, cable water ski around the back. And it was just a shame that all these people came in every day and messed it all up. Kelly Molson: Yeah. Well, I'm pretty sure that most people who've worked in theme parks aren't going to disagree with you on that one, Paul. Good one. Bernard, what about yours? Bernard Donoghue: Even though I chair a theatre and I know how important the revenue is, I'm not a fan of selling drinks and food to people in theatres because they just make a noise. I can't bear it. I mean, it depends. I mean, it depends if it's a panto or something like that. Completely fine. Ken Robinson: Oh, no, it's not. Bernard Donoghue: It kind of allies to what Paul was saying as well, which was I don't know whether it's an unpopular opinion. I think it's probably a popular opinion. But visitor behaviour, whether it's in a theatre, a museum, an art gallery or wherever, has completely deteriorated post lockdown. Some people's behaviour is getting worse and it's very difficult to know what to do about it. Kelly Molson: Yes, agree. I don't think that's going to be very unpopular at all, actually, considering some of the things that we've seen recently. Thank you all for sharing. Okay, let's get back to the serious bit. The Visitor Attractions Conference. It's 20 years old this year. If you are listening and you're not familiar with it, one, why the hell not? And two, you need to grab a ticket today. It's the leading networking and learning event for visitor attractions across the UK. And I first visited in October 2019 and it was the first sector specific conference that I had been to. We'd been working in the sector for probably about three or four years, had never really at that point kind of gone all out on our like, "This is what we're going to niche and this is what we're going to specialise in."Kelly Molson: So I was kind of doing a bit of a fact finding mission really, and I came along and it absolutely blew me away. I think it was one of the friendliest conferences I've ever been to. I think you'd created an environment where everybody was really welcome, no stupid questions. Everyone from speakers to guests where kind of felt like they were all on the same level, really happy to answer questions that you had, really happy to talk to you. And I think that was for me. I came away from that event, I went back to my team and said, "This is where we should be. This is the event for us, this is where we should be attending, these are the people that we should be speaking to." And I've absolutely loved every minute of that. Kelly Molson: I mean, the next one I went to was a virtual one. So it was very different to the 2019 event, but still excellently organised. So firstly, thank you for making that happen. But where did the idea for the VAC come from in the first place? How did this come about? Ken Robinson: So we have to remember that the world was very different over 20 years ago. Really, really very different. Not just a question of internet or pre COVID and all those things and pre Olympics, but just very different. And attractions in those days thought and acted and communicated in their sectoral associations. Historic houses talked to historic houses, curators of museums talked to curators, bishops talked to priests, zoologists talked to botanists, but they didn't talk across the sectors. There were two exceptions to that. One was that in Visit England or English Tourist Board, there'd always been a committee there which was across the sectors, but the other one was ALVA. Now, when ALVA was formed, it was a 1 million visitors plus club for attractions, with 1 million plus visitors a year. Ken Robinson: Subsequently, groups of attractions, particularly English Heritage, National Trust, were involved originally associates, but it was a 1 million plus club and that's only 1% of the attractions in the United Kingdom had over 1 million. And it was very London centric. And ALVA had a five objectives, four of which were about government. And the interesting thing was that I was very good friends all through this time with Lord Lee, who know a very big part of the early success, pre Bernard of ALVA. I said to John Lee, “Look John, could you not change your name to ALVA and be involved with all the visitor attractions because they badly need something which glues everybody together and we need to get across this away from this sectoral stuff.” Ken Robinson: And everybody was talking about historic houses, talk about the house museums, talking about the continents of the museum but they weren't talking about visitors. They weren't talking about how you communicated with the visitors or what they were motivated by or how you could better manage things for visitors, give them better they weren't doing that. So John agreed with this and I've got the original papers here. I looked them out that I was asked first of all by ALVA in December of 2001 to write a paper on the future of ALVA which is headed: ALVA in the Future Representing All Visitor Attractions. Then after that the conversation went on and we realised that if were going to have some kind of overall event we couldn't do it without the National Tourist Board, we couldn't do it without Visit Britain, Visit England. We needed their input.Ken Robinson: We needed them to talk to DCMS and make sure it would happen. And also we wanted to do this not on a commercial basis but being by the industry, for the industry, run by the industry, not for profit. And that was a problem because we wanted to do it in the QE II Centre because we wanted to be in the centre of everything and that was going to cost an extraordinary sum of money and there wasn't that much money that could in that first year come originally from VisitEngland. So the partners in this, the partners being ALVA, BALPPA, Paul's organisation, Leisure Media the wonderful Liz Terry and her magazine which has forever been behind this event for no recompense whatever and myself put up 5000 pounds each security in order that the thing would happen. Ken Robinson: You said, "We'll stand the risk, let's do it.". So in 2004 I wrote the briefing of the first conference and I found from a 2003 the government asked for a list of topics that would be discussed in order they could work out whether or not they might like it and it's still here. What I like about it is it would do quite well for this year's conference. All those topics are still relevant. So that's where it came from. That's where it came from. We wanted it to have at the time the lowest possible attendance fee to get the highest number of people there. We wanted to involve everybody. Ken Robinson: And the cast list for that 2004 event, my goodness me, absolutely fantastic cast list in terms of the people we had for an initial event and you can imagine when it was announced and everybody was behind it ALVA was behind it. BALPPA, I should have mentioned that Colin Dawson, Paul's predecessor was an absolute stalwart of the conference in the early years he stood by know, when times were tough and that's where it came from. Kelly Molson: That is phenomenal. It was really putting your money where your mouth is, isn't it? By all of you actually personally investing in this thing to bring it to life. You don't hear many things happening in that way anymore, do you? It's all about getting investment and asking other people to make the commitment to it and take the risk. Ken Robinson: Well, we have a company now, I should say. We have a company called VAC Events, and we are all equal. The four of us are equal shareholders, that's to say, Bernard and ALVA, BALPPA and Paul, Liz and myself, for no benefit. Martin does it for us, but we are the people that carry the can, if you like, and I don't think we've ever had anything out of it apart from a nice lunch at Christmas, but apart from that, it's a great feeling of doing something. When you say everybody is very friendly and talks to one another. That's why they're all in the same business. Bishop, curator, zoologist person running a heritage railway, they're all in the same business. Kelly Molson: Obviously, the first event was a success. You've been on and you've done many, what, 20, 20 events since that first one. How have you seen it kind of change and develop over the years? So what did that first conference look like compared to what this year's will look like? And how have you kind of evolved it over that time to keep it relevant to your audience? Paul Kelly: Well, I think so. My involvement directly has been the last ten years, so I'm halfway through chairing for this one, but I was actually there at the early ones because I worked at that time. I was working at the London Eye, just across the river, and I was good friends with Colin Dawson at the time. I'd worked with him at Thorpe Park and he for some people, may well remember Colin as entertaining Princess Diana on a log flume in 92, 3 and 4. Paul Kelly: And I was there. It's hard to tell, but I was actually there. I'm not in any of the photos in Paris Match and all of those places. I have a couple of myself here. I didn't get anything signed by Princess Diana and sent over to you know, bitterness takes a while to and I've joked with Colin over this many years. Colin was there, but if you look closely behind the scenes, you'll find I was there too, but so I was great friends with Colin over many years and still am. He was obviously contacting everyone he knew about this conference. He was working for BALPPA at the time. I was working for the Two Swords Group, had the operational contract for the London Eye. Paul Kelly: So I went to the first one and I suppose my impressions of the first one was for somebody who hasn't been there before, the QE II is extremely impressive as a conference center. I don't go to many that look like that around the UK. Most of them normally the ones I go to are in attractions, they're slightly different so it was hugely impressive both on its location and what was across the road and how things went and I was a little bit starstruck I suppose, for the first one. Now I get the opportunity to sit on the stage and look out at everybody and have a slightly different view on it all, but still think it's an extremely impressive environment to do that. Paul Kelly: And I think the biggest change for me, and I think we may cover a little bit later, is how we've broken up the afternoons into separate segments and sections where people can go along to a smaller, informal group discussing a topic that they particularly want. And I think the thing I also like about that is the amount of people who want to go to more than one of them that are on at the same time and are almost complaining there's too many things to go to, which I think is hilarious, which means it's really good. And hopefully that means that next time they'll really think about which one do I want to go to, obviously I want to go to more than one, but I'm going to pick my best one. Paul Kelly: So I think for me, that's probably the biggest change over time. But what doesn't change for me is the team that we have putting these things together, which we're actually relatively slick at. Everyone gets the chance to put their opinions and I'm glad we don't record those meetings and it works out really well. And I think as a team, it's amazing how long we've stuck at it and stuck together. Kelly Molson: I'd love to be on a little fly on the wall for those meetings. Have you ever had a fallout about something? Bernard Donoghue: Yes, we're frequently violent. It's a visitor experience in its own right, I think. Kelly Molson: I'll pay for it. Bernard Donoghue: We reflect the madness that some of our visitors demonstrate on site so in that case I think we're rooted in the industry. The first one that I went to was in 2011, so I just joined ALVA at that point. And the first one I spoke, it was in 2012 and I've been doing the same kind of slot ever since. I do a kind of State of the Nation in the morning because ALVA obviously gets loads of data and information and we publish all of our visitor figures and all the rest of it, and actually we collect and commission much more data now than we ever used to. So I share all of that in the kind of Donoghue half hour copyright. Bernard Donoghue: What's lovely I mean, Paul's absolutely right is that over the last twelve years I think we've seen a real move from people desperately wanting to speak about their successes to being really open about what hasn't worked, which of course is far more interesting and useful. So there's been a really lovely shift from people saying, "No, I don't have to do the propaganda stuff.” Actually, I'm going to tell you what it was like, why it was a disaster and what we learned from it. And that's so useful. So you do get this real honesty coming from the speakers who know that's what they find useful too. So why not share it? I think the other one is I do a presentation about, is there core behaviours of successful visitor attractions regardless of type?Bernard Donoghue: And there are there's about ten of them, but one of them is the ability to foster creative partnerships with unusual suspects. So the presentations that are most fascinating for me is where a visitor attraction, it doesn't matter whether it's a cathedral or whether it's a museum or gallery or theme park, have teamed up with someone that you wouldn't expect them to team up with to tell the story of their people and places and collections in a new, innovating, exciting way. And those are fascinating, absolutely fascinating. So I love those. There's much more of that. Kelly Molson: Fantastic. Well, on that note, I want to know from each of you who has been the most inspiring speaker that you've had at the conference over the past 20 years. Ken, let us start with you. Who do you think would be on your list for that? Ken Robinson: I had a look through the programs going back to 2004 and came up with the following names which surprised me, actually. I think originally our first most inspiring speaker was Simon Jenkins, the columnist of the Times, who had very strong views, which didn't necessarily agree with what government and others were doing. He did give a very inspiring presentation and then there are some people who perhaps we would expect less. The most single most surprising speaker was somebody called Tristram Mayhew, who titles himself as the Chief Gorilla of Go Ape and in a room full of suits and quite smart dresses and trouser suits, Go Ape shambled onto the stage in a car key shirt and proceeded to explain how he'd done things differently. And frankly, it was riveting. We had a chap called Tony Berry from the National Trust who gave presentations. Ken Robinson: His first one was just stunnning, you know, in the days when HR was less popular, Tony Berry would tell you why you should be interested and he was absolutely amazing. And Sue Wilkinson, incidentally, of the National Trust, who was the person responsible really for dragging the Trust from its sort of old form to its new marketing orientated thinking about its supporters future success? She was terrific. And the other person I would mention another Tony, I don't know whether or Tony's there's Tony Butler from the Museum of East Anglian Life, who again, when Bernard was talking about people talking about doing things differently and it inspires you. Some of those examples are very interesting, but not easy to copy. Ken Robinson: In other attractions, we always look for things that do go across the piece, so anybody can learn from the lessons within the example that we're talking about. And incidentally, we do have arguments in meetings, it's about whether particular speakers and particular topics are the way of doing things. And generally speaking, when we all have a good go at it comes out better than it did when anybody said, “Well, I know what the right answer is. No, you don't. Let's all talk about it. So that works.” So you get these people that actually inspire and they light up the room, not because of clever graphics and not because of a forceful way, but they light up the room because of the originality of their ideas. Now, I'll come to my number one. Ken Robinson: I'm sorry about this, because he's sitting on my screen down there, and that's young Bernard, who since he joined our there you go. That's the top half that works. You should see the bottom half doesn't work. He's just had pins put in it. Kelly Molson: Just for our listeners here, Bernard is given a little muscle strong arm salute on screen here. Ken Robinson: Bernard combines the latest immediate knowledge of talking to people across the industry with an absolutely amazing gift of the gab, with a power of communication. And he's unstoppable. And we wouldn't have stood him for all these years if he wasn't. So of all the years and all the speakers, the consistent best is Bernard. But we have had other people, often surprising, who take know, you don't expect it, you think you're going to listen to ordinary session, all of a sudden it takes fire. Kelly Molson: Bernard, what have you got to say to that? Bernard Donoghue: What I say to Ken is there are packets of cash going from London to the south coast with immediate effect. Delighted. Thank you very much. It's really lovely, actually. I've tried to change things every year to do partly political, but also partly about good practice and who's doing what and who's interesting. I'll tell you what, one of my favourite speakers, and it was in a conversation, one of the things that we've introduced is a sort of conversation with slot, which works really well, actually, because a bit like this, you're off script, you respond to people. Liz chaired a conversation last year, so were in Birmingham last year and it was all about HR issues and of course, it know, coming out of COVID and cost of living crisis and recruitment challenges and all of those kind of stuff. Bernard Donoghue: And Tina Lewis is the director of people at the National Trust. National Trust, getting great repertoire here. She came out with an idea that they're doing at the National Trust and I've implemented it in the three organisations that I chair and it's made the biggest difference. So the National Trust, they will pay the rent deposit for your flat if you need them to. So if you're going through a cost of living crisis and you can't get up the cash to put down a rent deposit on your flat, they'll do it for you. You can't get up the cash to put down a rent deposit on your flat, they'll do it for you. That was such a transformational thing to hear. You could almost hear the gasp in the room of people going, "Oh, my God. Yeah, if we can, let's do that." Bernard Donoghue: And I've now introduced it. As I say in the organisations that I chair, not many people have taken it up, but the fact that we've said it has made such a difference to people. I mean, as it is at the Trust, actually, there's been a relatively small number of people at the Trust who've taken it up, but the very policy decision, the very communication of it, just spoke volumes about an organisation that cares about its staff, and particularly those staff who are on really limited budgets. So there's been loads and loads of speakers over the course of the last few years, but that for me was a nugget which has changed people's lives and has been implementable. Kelly Molson: I think that's the key to that part, isn't it, is that it's an incredible thing that they've done, but the fact that it can be implemented someone has listened to that talk. They can take that away, take it to their board, take it to whoever needs to okay that, and they can put that into action like that straight away. That's the power of a really good initiative and a good speaker to be able to deliver that as well. Paul, what about you? Please don't say Bernard. I think he's had enough praise today. Bernard Donoghue: No, keep going. Kelly Molson: No. Paul Kelly: You're OK, Bernard? We'll leave that one where it is, shall we? If we can squeeze Bernard into the room next. Right, so one special mention I wanted to give, actually, which is one of the years not too long ago, we invited Simon Calder to speak, the travel journalist, and I have to say I wasn't convinced, because clearly he's not working in one of our attractions and doesn't necessarily know the industry pretty well. But I have to say, he was hugely entertaining, had done his homework, was hugely knowledgeable, and so he was absolutely excellent. But I think the most important thing for me is that he left us and he said to me, “Enjoyed it so much, I'll come back later.” And I said, “Yes, of course you will.”Paul Kelly: So he went away and he came back at the end of the day to talk to all the people that he'd seen early in the day, because he loved the atmosphere and he wasn't required to do that. And he came along. And for that I have to put a special mention in one for myself to actually listen to the others when they say, “This will be good”, and secondly for him, for actually doing a bit and actually coming back later. And he was a fabulous addition and outside of our industry. So my inside the industry one is somebody I ended up working with because I was with the Two Swords group and then they were bought by Merlin with Nick Varney and his Merry Men. Paul Kelly: So Nick and his team had obviously been in the industry a very long time at this point, dipped in and out of theme parks and attractions. But Nick didn't actually do many talks. You wouldn't actually hear him speak about too much. I'd heard him speak over in the IAAPA trade show held in Orlando every November, and he was absolutely brilliant. And then Ken managed to get him to speak at VAC one year. And again, he was absolutely excellent. And this fits in nicely because now that he's retired from Merlin, he's speaking again this year. So I think that will be really interesting because he's absolutely excellent. Ken Robinson: And by the way, guys, just to show you that we know what we're doing here, this is 2004, okay? And it says here the recipe for success. Nick Varney chief executive, will talk about the components for commercial success. And that's before. So we've got him first and look what happened. Kelly Molson: I'm really looking forward to that interview, actually, and I think it would be really interesting to see how he differs now. He's kind of outside of the sector, and I think that the format that you've got him in. So that's the interview with Liz, isn't it? On stage? I think that's going to be a really great format as well. I've seen that work really well in the past where she's interviewed people and it just feels really comfortable and really conversational. I think that brings out the best of people. Bernard Donoghue: Kelly, do you want to know who's been of most variable quality? Kelly Molson: Oh, yes. Bernard Donoghue: Tourism Minister. I mean, without doubt. I mean, we've been going 20 years now, therefore we've had 20 tourism ministers, had one a year, like Christmas cards. And some of them have completely got the industry completely understood. It delivered a barnstorming speech, and then the next year you'll get the annual Tourism Minister pop up and they'll read something flat, banal, uninteresting. And we're so torched by the experience that we don't invite the one next on the year. So we're always banging on about this. Tourism is very good at job creation. In fact, we've created 20 Tourism Minister jobs in years, but they are of variable quality. Ken Robinson: The best we ever had, Bernard, I think, by far, was John Penrose, when he had completed his review of the industry and got very clear views, which he put to government. Unfortunately, government didn't do it, as they usually don't, but he was good and people liked him and gave him a high rating. I think the next best was probably Margaret Hodge, who was very good and spoke from the heart. But as you say, when we look at every year, we look at a rating of every speaker and the meeting after the event, we go through those ratings and decide, those that got good ratings, why did they get it? Was it intrinsic to their character, their nature, their topic? Was there something special? And those who didn't, why was that? Was it our fault? Ken Robinson: Did we not brief them properly? Or was it never going to be any better? Ken Robinson: And that way we managed to manage the conference. So know the attraction sector. We sometimes forget that over half of all visits to visitor attractions in the UK are free of charge. We forget that the majority of visitor attractions are medium and small businesses. We forget that there are charitable and commercial attractions. We must be able to bring this whole sector together and move our thinking forward in the way that Bernard has just explained in terms of what he does with ALVA. And the other thing that Bernard mentioned was ALVA's research now. Ken Robinson: 20 years ago, you had to wait until the annual book came out from Thames Tower and then eventually from the centre of luck look to page 16 and there would be numbers, but very little interpretation of what those numbers meant. Now, Bernard is behind much of the work that is done now with ALVA. But the key to it is it's not just numbers, it's interpretation. And because of the communication skills, when ALVA put out a message, it is interpreted. It says why it was a successful year or what was mitigating against that. And that's so important in trying to move our case forward. Kelly Molson: But it's important in improving the content that you give your audience at the conferences as well, right? If something isn't working and you've got a process of evaluating why that hasn't worked and how you improve on it for the next one. Let's just focus on why should people attend VAC this year? What is in it for them? What's on the agenda? What have they got to look forward to and how can we get them to book a ticket? Bernard Donoghue: I'll happily go first and go quite niche, actually. One of the things that I do now outside of ALVA, or because of ALVA is that I co chair the advisory board for VisitLondon. So essentially chair the London tourist board. And I do that with Kate Nichols of UK hospitality. And we created the London Tourism Recovery Group during COVID So my suggestion would be Sadiq Khan. So we've managed to get the Mayor of London to come along and speak at this anniversary conference. And it's not just because he's the Mayor of London and it's the 20th anniversary, but it's because he's the first ever Mayor of London that hazard one of his four political priorities, culture and tourism. That's number one. Bernard Donoghue: Number two is that he put his money where his mouth was and he funded the Let's Do London Recovery campaign, which was both domestic and international with the industry. We delivered it with London and partners, but he put up the lump sum behind it. And third, he completely gets that tourism and heritage and culture is both where you grow jobs and we're very good at it, but it's also where you grow people. It's where you grow people in terms of their cultural literacy or their sense of community or their independence or their sense of history. And therefore knowing where you come from enables you to be a better future citizen, if you like. Bernard Donoghue: So my quick blast would be we've got him doing a welcome, but also saying why visitor attractions and tourism are so important to him and to the economy and the politics of London. So that's not to be missed. Kelly Molson: That is a big draw. Absolutely a big draw. Paul, you mentioned earlier about the variety in splitting up that second session, that second part of the day with the seminars and the smaller talks that you do as well. That for me, as an attendee, is really valuable because you can kind of pick and choose what's relevant to you and go along and see lots of different talks. What do you think is the draw for people to come to the conference this year for you? Paul Kelly: Well, I was just jotting down, thinking about it's a little bit. An extension of what Ken was talking about is that it's the variety of what we do in one place is greater than anywhere else. And all the conferences I do because of the nature of what we do each end of the spectrum. So we've got talks about people who run charities to people who run hugely commercial operations. We've got people doing talks on which are free to get into those who are quite expensive, but focus on value for money. And you've got those that are indoor, those that are outdoor. When I spent my time business development at Merlin, they were always focused on a balanced portfolio. And a balanced portfolio meant making sure that right across your business, you have every aspect covered. Paul Kelly: So everything balances indoor, outdoor, UK, Europe, USA, whatever it is. And I think with our conference, that's what we try and do, we try and balance all of those types of different types of operations so that everything is covered, not to the point where it's too thin and you don't learn anything. And that's the key to it, is that we go into the depth. And the depth, I think, is greater now because we do those breakout sessions and we've got time to do in fact, we double up for those three different areas just for that afternoon. So I think those are the things, if anyone asks me why they should come, it's about the variety.Kelly Molson: Regardless of size of your attraction as well. And actually, from my perspective as a supplier to the industry, it's just as valuable to come along and learn and understand what's going on in the sector. You don't have to be an attraction to come along and take part and be educated about what's happening in the sector. What about you, Ken? Ken Robinson: Well, I think that those of us who have stood on the stage at the QE II Centre and looked at the people who have come can see that there aren't any slumbering faces out there. There are people making notes, people nudging the person next to them, people looking round when we ask a question. We now have a sort of red and green card system for, do you agree? Don't you agree? Which we sometimes use, which is very interesting, engaging the mood of the room. And I think that the thing about VAC is don't be lazy if we're going to come to VAC. Don't be lazy. If you're coming to VAC, l And jot down what questions you might like to ask those people or what you'd like to learn from that session. Write it down, don't think you can remember it at the time. Ken Robinson: Bring it on a note with you when you come and then you will find, and we all know this, that the networking that happens at the end of the day and in the breaks at VAC it's like a family wedding in a way. I mean, everybody wants to talk to everybody else and it's so valuable. I think everybody who goes away from VAC should have a good few things that day, which they say, “I wouldn't have thought of that if I hadn't been there”, or even, “I disagree with that”, but it's made me realise what my true opinion about that is equally valuable. But don't be a lazy attendee. Come and participate, come and enjoy, come and learn, come and take back benefit to everybody that works with you. Kelly Molson: Yeah, I couldn't agree more. I think that thing about not being scared to ask questions is really valid as well, Ken, because this happened to me, actually. I went to one of the seminar sessions, and this is back in 2019 and was really inspired by one of the speakers about it was Julez Osbek, who was at Continuum Attractions at the time, and she talked about marketing segmentation, but had a completely different perspective on it in terms of not doing it demographically, just talking about age brackets and things like that. And it was really interesting. I didn't get a chance to ask a question during the seminar, but I found her afterwards and she was very approachable, very happy to answer my question. And then I stalked her on Twitter and got her to come on to the podcast afterwards to talk about it. Kelly Molson: But that's for me, what VAC is about. It's the openness that people are really willing to share. So don't be afraid to go and find the speaker that you've been inspired by and go and ask them the question afterwards, because everyone's really happy to talk about their topic and they're really happy to help people. That's my little key takeaway from it anyway. Right, so it's going to be on Thursday, the 5th October. This podcast episode is launching on the 20th September, so you haven't got long to go and get your tickets, so make sure you do. It is the 5th October, the QE II Conference Centre in Westminster. The website address is vacevents.com. That's Vacevents.com and you can get your ticket there. All of this information will be in the show notes, so don't worry if you didn't get time to scribble that down. Kelly Molson: While I've got you all, though, because you all are in the sector and you've got lots of insights to share. I want to know from each of you what you think that attractions should be focusing on and what 2024 might look like for the sector. Paul, what about you? Start with you. Paul Kelly: So I've been chatting to some of our operators. We have some very large operators around the UK asking them how it's going? And unsurprisingly, you could have said the same question 20 years ago, what's our biggest challenge? It's the weather. It's not actually the cost of living crisis, it's not COVID you can put plans together for those things and you can work on it, but the weather always is a little bit of a challenge. So this summer inverted commerce has been quite hard to focus on what we can deliver when the days have been half decent. Actually, we've done quite well, we always do relatively well, certainly in our sector, I'm sure the others will agree, in a recession. Paul Kelly: So the key seems to be, and I'm going to put it out, I haven't quite found the right words for it, but I'll develop this once I've spoken to a few more. What every attraction for me has to have is an opportunity for people to downgrade what they did slightly. What they're doing is they're ringing it up and saying, "Can't afford to do this, have you got something that's almost like that?" But whether it's a slightly different experience, less time, one day less so whatever the packages are that people are offering, there has to be one rung lower than it was before to still encourage people to come along because they're not able to reach the same heights at the moment that they did previously. But they still want to have that family experience that day out, create those memories. Paul Kelly: All of those things are still relevant. And if you don't have that opportunity, then they'll either go elsewhere or they won't go. So, again, it's managing. So I'm not talking about huge discounts, I'm talking about being relatively clever in what you package and what you put together to make sure they still attend and they still get what they perceive to be value for money. But unless you have that option then I think they won't come. Kelly Molson: Really great advice, Paul. Thank you. Bernard, what about you? Bernard Donoghue: Like Paul, actually, especially since Lockdown ended, but actually for about the last five or six years I've noticed a particular thing which is where visitor attractions have got reserves, and that's a big if by the way, particularly in the course of the last couple of years. Actually, especially since Lockdown ended, but actually for about the last five or six years I've noticed a particular thing which is where visitor attractions have got reserves, and that's a big if by the way, particularly in the course of the last couple of years. So it comes back to Paul's point about kind of ensuring yourself against the excesses of the weather and making sure that you're still particularly a family attractive visitor attractions that'd be one. Second is cost of living crisis, certainly for the average customer, but also the energy costs for visitor attractions too. Bernard Donoghue: Just crazy amounts of money that visitor attractions are now paying i If you're a zoo or an aquarium you can't turn down the temperature of your botanics you're a living reef. So we're going to have to find some way out of that. And that means that actually for many organisations it's going to be as financially challenging over the next twelve months as it has been over the last two. And then I think the third, and this is a continual for me and Kelly, you and I have talked about it before, but it forms the last session of the day at the VAC conference which is diversity and inclusivity. And my feeling is that every visitor attraction should be critically honest about who comes, who doesn't, why they don't come and what are you going to do about it?Bernard Donoghue: And in particular those organisations who in receipt are government money or public money or who had COVID loans from the UK taxpayer. If their visitors don't look like the community in which they're housed, they have a moral question at the heart of their business. That's it. If you want to take public money you need to have an audience that looks like the diversity of the public. And that's a challenge. I get that, I completely get that. But I think that making sure that we are as accessible in every conceivable way, economically, physically. Accessible to people and that they see their stories and themselves reflected in their collections and people and staff and volunteers and board members, I think that's the biggest challenge of the sector as it is indeed to many other sectors. Bernard Donoghue: But I think we're doing some amazing things and we need to shout about it and we need to share and we need to learn from each other. Kelly Molson: Absolutely agree. And that session is going to be a really great session. That's one not to miss. Ken? Ken Robinson: Well, I would say two things. First of all, as far as our visitors are concerned, I think there is a bigger polarisation now than there ever has been between those who have money and can still afford to do things and are not much impacted by the current circumstances, despite everything. And those who haven't and those who haven't have got to find ways of saving money, getting more for their money. There are so many things they can do that are free and alternatives that charged attractions find it difficult. I think we have to remember that the biggest number of attractions in the United Kingdom are heritage based attractions and they weren't purpose built like many of Paul's members, the attractions are purpose built for entertainment. But heritage attractions have got a bigger responsibility or museums housed in historic buildings. Ken Robinson: And all the time they're having to cut their costs and finding life difficult. Money isn't going into maintaining that National Heritage. And that's a real big long term challenge, one that government can't ignore. So government has a vested interest in the health of our businesses because the more healthy they are, the less will fall back on the state eventually. One last thing, I would like to mention Martin Evans and the tourism business. Ken Robinson: For the last I don't know how many years, Martin has been the person who has put together this event for us. He has to do the heavy lifting. He is backed up by our conference organisers, who are also very efficient. And the other person that I wouldn't like to miss from this, because if she could have been here today, you would have got a different flavour, is the wonderful Liz Terry and the support that her organisation. That's Liz's Organisation, her hard work in Leisure Media Group. She publishes Attractions Management magazine. Ken Robinson: She has never asked for anything from this conference and she gives it great support, without which we wouldn't have made 20 years, as I said earlier. And also a big shout and a screen for Liz. Kelly Molson: That is lovely. Thank you. I'm sure Liz will very much appreciate that. We won't forget her. Don't worry, she'll be on the credits for this podcast. I always ask our guests to leave us with a book recommendation for our listeners. So a book that you've loved, a book that you've enjoyed as part of your career growth can be absolutely anything. So, Paul, what would you like to share with us today? Paul Kelly: Oh, I tell you what, books are a bit highbrow for me. Yes, Bernard agrees with that. So I'm from the north, so I used to travel a lot when I was working North America. Commuting a little bit. So I did read a little bit then, but I very quickly swapped over to podcasts things that I download. I watch Silent Witness from the 90's, early 2000s repeatedly. I like Meet Marry Murder, which is one of the cable channels, so I'm quite simple. So I don't really have a book recommendation. I think when I have time to read, I will look forward to reading what somebody else recommends. Kelly Molson: Well, I will take Silent Witness as a recommendation because I love Silent Witness, Paul. Oh, so good. Never miss an episode, ever. So, OK, they go I mean, I can't give it away as a prize, but go and check out Silent Witness if you haven't. Bernard, what's yours? Bernard Donoghue: Well, I've been on this before and I remember my recommendation and it sounds really facile, but it was absolutely true, was Ladybird Books when I was a kid, and then that's how I got into history and heritage and storytelling and absolutely loved them. And I've still got loads of them, which is a bit sad, actually. I'm currently confined to home with a broken ankle. So I've been going through my big Bernard book of books, of all the ones that I haven't got around to reading, and the one that I've enjoyed most and has really surprised me is Lucy Worsley's biography of Agatha Christie. Absolutely fascinating. I thought I knew her. I thought I knew all about her. I know all of her characters, I've watched every conceivable film and TV program, but what a fascinating woman. Bernard Donoghue: So that's the one that I've loved this summer. Kelly Molson: Great recommendation. Yeah. I wondered what were going to get from you, actually, because you've had a lot of time on your hands to go through that book pile. Bernard Donoghue: It was either going to be Agatha Christie or the Argos catalogue. Honestly, it could have gone. Kelly Molson: It's not Christmas yet. You only do the Argos catalogue at Christmas. Ken, over to you for our last recommendation. Ken Robinson: Well, the best book quite hard to get hold of now, but I can supply copies is Action For Attractions, the National Policy Document, written in 2000. But if you want something other than that, then I have just finished reading a book which everyone else read years ago called Sapiens, which is about this thick, that's to say two and a half inches thick. For those of you listening. It's by somebody, I've just had to look him up because I couldn't have remembered it, by Yuval Noah Harari. And it's entitled A Brief History of Humankind. And what's so interesting about it is it goes through segments explaining the great moves that have happened to us humans since we appeared on this Earth. Ken Robinson: And I found the whole thing fascinating to read in one go what took me a long time, particularly the last bit, which talks about how commerce has changed the world and what we're all doing, and that's, after all, what we're doing at VAC. We are engaged in the kind of commerce that is to entertain, amuse and give enjoyment to our visitors, and at the same time keep the heritage of the country going and keep an awful lot of people employed, so I recommend Sapiens. Kelly Molson: Ken, that's a great book. It took me a really long time to read as well, but it is an absolutely fascinating book. I would totally back up your recommendation there. Have you read the next one as well, Homodeus? Ken Robinson: No one a year is enough for me. Kelly Molson: Well, I've got a toddler, so reading doesn't come easy for me right now. But Homodus is next on my list to read because that's the next one on from Sapiens and it's supposed to be a really good read as well. Right, listeners as ever, if you want to win a copy of Ken and Bernard's book, retweet this episode announcement with the words, I want the Vax books and you will be put into a prize drawer to win them. And also, do go and watch Silent Witness, Paul's recommendation, because it is blooming brilliant. I love it. Thank you all so much for coming on to join me today. I've really appreciated it. It's been a fascinating kind of deep dive into the Visitor Attractions Conference. I genuinely love this conference. It is one absolutely not to be missed. Kelly Molson: I mean, there might be a speaker called Kelly at this one. This is so I'll be there. Come and see me too. But no, thank you. It's been wonderful. As I said, we will put all of the info in the show notes. We'll put all of the connections to Paul, Ken and Bernard too. So if you've got any follow up questions that you want to ask them, I'm sure they'd be really happy to help. But it's vapevents.com. Go and grab your ticket now. Thank you, guys. Ken Robinson: And I have to tell you, Kelly, we are going to spend our time at our next committee meeting thinking of impossible questions for you for when you're speaking at VAC.Kelly Molson: Oh, God. Do it. I love impossible questions. Put me on the spot, Ken. I'll enjoy it. Kelly Molson: Thanks for listening to Skip the Queue. If you've enjoyed this podcast, please leave us a five star review. It really helps others find us. And remember to follow us on Twitter for your chance to win the books that have been mentioned. Skip The Queue is brought to you by Rubber Cheese, a digital agency that builds remarkable systems and websites for attractions that helps them increase their visitor numbers. You can find show notes and transcriptions from this episode and more over on our website, rubbercheese.com/podcast.
This week we chat all things Thorpe Park and what changes we'd make if we owned this UK Theme Park!
Today's episode is from one of those partners – ScareTrack. ScareTrack is the UK's first podcast showcasing the Scare Attraction & Haunted House Industry. Today, the team is in the studio discussing Duel: The Haunted House Strikes Back being rethemed to The Curse at Alton Manor and Derren Browns Ghost Train being rethemed to Ghost Train at Thorpe Park. Subscribe to HAN here.
ScareTrack- 2023: The year of the Ghost Train ScareTrack discuss the rethemes of 2 haunted rides in the UK. Duel: The Haunted House Strikes Back is being rethemed to The Curse at Alton Manor, whilst Derren Browns Ghost Train is being rethemed to simply, Ghost Train at Thorpe Park. Visit our website here: ScareTrack Watch our latest ScareCam vlogs: ScareCam ScareTrack merchandise can be found here: Merch Social Media Facebook.com/ScareTrack Instagram- @scaretrack Twitter- @scaretrack Snapchat- scaretrack Check out the Haunted Attraction Network here: https://hauntedattractionnetwork.com/ *Logo/Photo property of ALTON TOWERS / THORPE PARK *All views expressed are of the individual host/guest
Skip the Queue is brought to you by Rubber Cheese, a digital agency that builds remarkable systems and websites for attractions that helps them increase their visitor numbers. Your host is Kelly Molson, MD of Rubber Cheese.Download our free ebook The Ultimate Guide to Doubling Your Visitor NumbersIf you like what you hear, you can subscribe on iTunes, Spotify, and all the usual channels by searching Skip the Queue or visit our website rubbercheese.com/podcast.If you've enjoyed this podcast, please leave us a five star review, it really helps others find us. And remember to follow us on Twitter for your chance to win the books that have been mentioned in this podcastCompetition ends January 31st 2023. The winner will be contacted via Twitter. Show references: https://www.draytonmanor.co.uk/https://twitter.com/DraytonManorhttps://www.instagram.com/draytonmanor/https://www.tiktok.com/@drayton_manor Danielle Nicholls - Senior Content Executive at Drayton Manor ResortWhen I graduated from Leeds Trinity University with a degree in Media & Marketing and a multitude of marketing placements in 2017, I was set on combining my two passions - storytelling and theme parks.After a year in a marketing communications role with a tour operator, I was lucky enough to secure a role in the Drayton Manor marketing team.Here at Drayton, I'm responsible for creating engaging visual and written content for all marketing channels - including web, PR, email, in park signage and of course, social media.My main focus over the last 4 and a half years has been to build an engaged social community across all our channels – Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, TikTok, LinkedIn and YouTube.I'm forever grateful to work in such a fantastic industry, filled with incredible energy and enthusiasm.https://www.linkedin.com/in/nichollsdanielle/Twitter @dnicholls_Instagram @_daniellenicholls Ross Ballinger - Design & Brand Manager at Drayton Manor Resort (Inc. Hotel, Zoo & Europe's only Thomas Land) Brand protector and innovator... I played a senior role in a busy agency studio team for nearly 9 years. I joined fresh from leaving university with a sort after London placement under my belt.I now produce fresh, engaging, and dynamic design creative for digital advertising, marketing campaigns, theme park attractions, working closely alongside a talented Marketing team. All to promote Drayton Manor Resort in the most effective and exciting method possible.I can guarantee expertise and a wealth of experience, the final outcome of the design process is not the end of my creative input, you can be assured that maintaining brand continuity and freshly injected excitement remains my priority.Spend time with me and you'll understand why I wanted to be an Actor, but you'll be glad I didn't as my energy provides office enthusiasm and endless creative steer.www.linkedin.com/in/ross-ballingerwww.behance.net/rossballinger(Portfolio)Instagram @rossballingerTwitter @rossballingerTikTok @rossballinger Transcriptions: Kelly Molson: Welcome to Skip the Queue, a podcast for people working in, or working with, visitor attractions. I'm your host, Kelly Molson. In today's episode, I speak with two great team members from Drayton Manor, Danielle Nicholls, Senior Content Executive, and Ross Ballinger, the Design and Brand Manager. We discuss the complex rebranding process. And how building a great social media community can mean your fans having your back when it comes to big change. If you like what you hear, you can subscribe on all the usual channels by searching Skip the Queue.Kelly Molson: Woohoo, I've got Danielle and Ross from Drayton Manor on the podcast today. Hello.Danielle Nicholls: Hi.Ross Ballinger: Hello there. Very excited to be here.Kelly Molson: I love how excited you are. I'm just talking, listeners, Danielle and Ross are literally the most pumped guests I've ever had on the podcast.Ross Ballinger: That's it, we'd better live up to that now.Danielle Nicholls: I know, right?Kelly Molson: They've got a snazzy Drayton Manor background behind them, which is looking fierce. But as ever, we're going to start with our icebreaker questions. Imagine that you're just down your pub with your mates. This is how I need you to feel with the icebreaker questions.Ross Ballinger: Okay. Get a few beers in.Kelly Molson: Ready?Ross Ballinger: Yeah.Kelly Molson: What are you most likely to buy when you exit through the gift shop?Danielle Nicholls: Pin badge, I reckon. Yeah, I've got a little pin badge collection.Kelly Molson: I like this. Ross?Ross Ballinger: Yeah, I'm very similar. I'm fridge magnet.Kelly Molson: You can't go wrong with a fridge magnet.Ross Ballinger: No. And we've got a secondary fridge, under the stairs, which where we keep the beers. And that's where all the fridge magnets go, at the end, if we've been to an attraction.Danielle Nicholls: I love it.Kelly Molson: Is that because your house is beautiful and your partner does not want them on her fridge and you have to hide them?Ross Ballinger: Exactly. Exactly that. The wife does not want them on the normal fridge. They're hidden behind the door.Kelly Molson: Oh, I like her style.Ross Ballinger: But I've got to get a fridge magnet.Kelly Molson: Pin badges, fridge magnets, excellent choices. Mine would be a rubber. Have I told you about my rubber collection?Danielle Nicholls: That's interesting, no.Ross Ballinger: So you collect branded rubbers?Kelly Molson: Right. Well, I used to when I was a kid. I'm going to show you them. I've got them on the desk next to me.Danielle Nicholls: Oh my God, please do.Kelly Molson: I'm sorry, listeners. For the people that are listening, this is rubbish. But if you're watching the YouTube video, hello. Welcome to my rubber collection.Danielle Nicholls: Amazing.Kelly Molson: So they still smell. Again, this is not podcast material, but they smell absolutely incredible.Ross Ballinger: Smell really good.Danielle Nicholls: Oh my God, I love it.Kelly Molson: This is an '80s collection of novelty rubbers.Danielle Nicholls: What's your oldest rubber in there, which have you had the longest?Kelly Molson: So there's one in there from the planetarium, the London Planetarium.Ross Ballinger: Doesn't exist anymore. There you go, that's memorabilia.Kelly Molson: Look at my Thorpe Park one, that's my Thorpe Park one.Danielle Nicholls: Oh my gosh, that is a throwback.Ross Ballinger: Oh, that's a good one.Kelly Molson: This is an old one as well. Anyway-Ross Ballinger: Everyone still does rubbers, so we fit in there with you.Kelly Molson: Because I can collect them.Ross Ballinger: Pin badge, magnet, rubber.Danielle Nicholls: We stick together.Ross Ballinger: That's a perfect combo.Kelly Molson: It's like the perfect triangle. We're the perfect gift shop triangle. Okay, all right, next one. If you had to live in a sitcom for the rest of your life, which sitcom would you choose and why?Ross Ballinger: Oh, mine's easy.Danielle Nicholls: I feel like we're going to be the same.Ross Ballinger: Yeah.Danielle Nicholls: Friends.Ross Ballinger: Friends, yeah.Kelly Molson: Aww. Who would you be, if you had to be one of the characters?Danielle Nicholls: I'm like a perfect mix between Phoebe, Rachel, and Monica, I think.Kelly Molson: Nice, okay. Again, another little triangle.Danielle Nicholls: Maybe more towards Phoebe, I'm a bit more hippie, I guess.Kelly Molson: Ross, what about you?Ross Ballinger: I love all the guys. I love for all the guys. Because I just love Chandler because he's so funny. But then Ross is funny as well, when he doesn't try to be funny. But Ross is just such a good actor. And you don't realise, until you watch it 17,000 times, actually how good of an actor he was. I think I'd have to-Danielle Nicholls: Can you be a Gunther?Ross Ballinger: No, no. I think I just have to sway towards Chandler. Just because he was known for being comedic and stupid.Kelly Molson: And now you feel like that's your life role?Ross Ballinger: Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I would go and live Chandler's life any day.Kelly Molson: Okay, I love this. All right, good, good answers. It's what I thought you were going to say. This is what I thought.Ross Ballinger: Did you?Kelly Molson: Yeah, I thought it was going to be Friends. All right. If you had to pick one item to win a lifetime supply of, what would you pick?Danielle Nicholls: That is so hard.Ross Ballinger: I know. Probably whiskey, lifetime supply of whiskey, just coming out the tap.Kelly Molson: It's a good choice.Danielle Nicholls: I genuinely don't know. That's really, really hard.Ross Ballinger: It's got to be food or drink, surely.Danielle Nicholls: It's got to be crisps or something like that. You can't beat a crisps and dip combo.Kelly Molson: Yeah. What about a crisp sandwich? How do we feel about crisp sandwiches?Ross Ballinger: Yeah, yeah, yeah.Danielle Nicholls: Oo, I'm not sure about that one.Kelly Molson: What?Danielle Nicholls: I'm not sure.Ross Ballinger: Come one, you're Northern. You can put anything in a sandwich.Danielle Nicholls: I would put crisps inside a cheese sandwich or something like that. But I wouldn't just have the crisps.Kelly Molson: See, I would do it either. I'm happy to have a filling sandwich with crisps in it. Or just a plain crisp sandwich.Ross Ballinger: I'd do either.Kelly Molson: What I really love about you two is how well you get on. And we're going to talk a little bit about this in the podcast today about your roles and what you do at Drayton Manor. But you look like-Ross Ballinger: Is it that evident?Kelly Molson: Yeah, it's that evident. But even from your social media channels... You guys feature quite heavily across Drayton Manor's social media channels. And, honestly, it just looks like you have the best time ever. And I want to hear more about it. But, firstly, I need your unpopular opinions. What have you prepared for us?Ross Ballinger: Okay, do you want to go first?Danielle Nicholls: As Ross alluded, I'm very, very Northern, I think. My accent a little bit, but more like how I am. So mine is, it's not a bap, it's not a bread roll, it's not a cob, it's a muffin.Kelly Molson: What?Danielle Nicholls: A muffin. That's mine.Ross Ballinger: It's a cob, it's a cob.Danielle Nicholls: No, it's a muffin.Ross Ballinger: Cob. You call it a cob.Danielle Nicholls: A muffin.Kelly Molson: No, it's a bun. What's wrong with you all?Ross Ballinger: Do you say bun? A muffin's a cake.Danielle Nicholls: I say batch as well. My partner calls it a batch, which is crazy to me. But muffin, we'll go muffin.Kelly Molson: Okay. For now, we'll accept muffin. Ross?Danielle Nicholls: Moving on.Ross Ballinger: Mine is, I just think soap operas are crap, honestly. I was going to swear, but I can't stand soap operas. And I know there's a lot of people out there that love them. But I just can't, I can't watch them. I just think they're so depressing. And if they're on, if I accidentally get home and the channel's on where it's on, I get anxious. And I have to find the remote as soon as I can to turn it off. What a waste of your life. What a waste of time, honestly. Hours and hours. And you add that up over a week and a year, think what else you could be doing. Honestly, if I turn one on now by accident, it's the same actors that are in it 20, 30 years ago. And I think, "What have they done with their life as well? They've just been in a soap opera for 30 years."Kelly Molson: These are excellent unpopular opinions. Listeners, please let me know if you agree or disagree. Thank you for preparing those for us today. I appreciate it.Ross Ballinger: No problem.Kelly Molson: Right, you guys work together. Tell me a little bit about your roles and what you do there?Ross Ballinger: So my title is design and brand manager. So I'm technically like lead designer for the resort. And the brand guardian. I look after the brand guidelines. So yeah, I'll produce, with me and my little team, everything that goes out graphically or visually across all the channels, website, printed media. So yeah.Danielle Nicholls: You definitely underplayed yourself there.Ross Ballinger: Did I?Danielle Nicholls: Yeah. You do so much. You say your little team, you and one other person. You smash everything, literally everything.Ross Ballinger: Aw, thanks, Danielle.Kelly Molson: That's a lot of work for you and your team.Ross Ballinger: It is, because if you think, in the industry, I can imagine people on a parallel with us would have bigger teams, bigger resource. Because basically Drayton Manor is a massive entity. It's not just a theme park, it's a hotel as well. It's a zoo. Then we have Thomas Land, which could be considered as a separate entity. So they're what I consider as four blue chip clients. And then we operate as a little agency within the resort that looks after all those. But then, you've got the resort's departments as well, which could be clusters of clients. So you've got catering, retail, they're the big ones I can think off my head. But they all have their graphical requirements as well, design requirements. So yeah, it's a massive entity and we look after it all.Kelly Molson: And how many... Did you say there's two of you?Ross Ballinger: There's two of us, yeah.Kelly Molson: That's mad. That is mad. So I really resonate with this because I, obviously, come from an agency background. I set up my agency nearly 20 years ago. I feel ancient. But what you're doing is you are essentially a mini agency with loads of clients and two of you. It's crazy. So I can imagine it's quite stressful, but also lots of fun because you get to work on a lot of variety.Ross Ballinger: Yeah. Oh, very varied. Yeah, every day is different. And that is not just a cliche that you can just say. Literally, every day is so different. Because it's an exciting company as well, where there's new things happening all the time, constantly evolving strategies, or new things come in and go in. So yeah, it's very varied.Kelly Molson: Danielle, what's your role? Because the two of you do work quite closely together as well, don't you?Danielle Nicholls: Yeah. Yeah, we do. So my role is, the title is senior content executive. So I primarily look after the social media channels, so Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, LinkedIn, and TikTok. Creating the content, taking the pictures, work with video agents. Sometimes creating a video in-house as well. And all of the community engagement that goes alongside that as well. Whilst also writing any copy, creating the content for the website, and any signage requirements. Literally anything that you see that has text on it, normally, me and Ross have worked together to create that. And with social, it's both paid and organic social media. So all of the adverts you see, alongside all of the organic stuff you see on our feeds. I also help out with PR as well. So we have a PR agency that we work with, but we liaise alongside them. And now, we're getting more into the traditional media as well. So the pair leaflets and out of home magazines, articles. Yeah, little bit of everything now that it's-Kelly Molson: That's mad. I love that you were just glossing over elements of your job that I'm like, "That's a whole person's job there." And we do the social community building and we do this bit and this bit. Wow, yeah, there's a lot. I just think that goes to show, even... We talk to attractions of all kinds of shapes and sizes on this podcast. And I think it just goes to show that even with an attraction that is a big attraction, and it's perceived to be a very big attraction, actually you're working with really small teams here. And there's a lot on each person's shoulder and a lot of responsibility. And I think it's really important that we highlight that, that you're doing a lot there.Ross Ballinger: But the extended team is really good as well. We've got really good team members. So the rapport across the whole team is very tight.Danielle Nicholls: In terms of the marketing side, I report into a digital marketing manager. And she is insane, she's amazing at what she does. And then, alongside me, we also have a digital marketing exec. And how it splits out is, he looks after all of the technical side, so SEO, CRM, that kind of thing. And I look after the creative content. And then we both report in to the digital manager.Kelly Molson: It sounds like-Danielle Nicholls: It's a little team but-Kelly Molson: It sounds like such fun roles as well. Genuinely, they sound really cool. Because I know, Danielle, you are a bit of a theme park... I'm going to say nerd. But you're theme park nut, right? You love theme parks.Danielle Nicholls: Yeah, absolutely, yeah.Kelly Molson: And I'm guessing, Ross, to work in a theme park, you've got to love a theme park.Ross Ballinger: Yeah, absolutely.Kelly Molson: Did you absolutely tailor your careers to make this happen? Was this always your ultimate goals? Like, "I want to work in an attraction."Ross Ballinger: Yes and no, kind of. So I studied to be a graphic designer, went to university for three years. And then I worked as a digital artist while I was at uni. And then I went straight into a local agency, after getting quite a sought after placement in London. And then I worked for an agency for nearly nine years. So I learnt my craft there, really. Worked my way up from a junior, up to a senior creative. And I ended up looking after all the top clients there as well. But almost nine years was enough. I knew I wanted to go in-house because it was at that time, there was a bit of a boom of companies and clients getting in-house designers. Because they knew how cost effective it would be to have your graphic designer in-house. So I started looking about, and I wanted a fun industry. There was no way I was going to go and work for a boiler company. I don't want to bad mouth any other companies out there but something engineering or-Danielle Nicholls: More typically fun.Ross Ballinger: Yeah, I wanted to go full on fun. And I used to come to Drayton as a kid as well so I knew Drayton Manor.Kelly Molson: That's nice to have that connection, isn't it? You know the brand, you've lived it.Ross Ballinger: I've got pictures of me around the park when I'm seven or eight with my mum and dad. So I have that nostalgic connection. And I was a big to a big Thomas fan as well when I was a kid growing up. So Thomas the Tank Engine, I had the wallpaper, had the bedspreads, loved the episodes. So when I knew that the big blue engine was here as well, it was like-Danielle Nicholls: Big boss Thomas.Ross Ballinger: Big boss, yeah, Thomas is your boss, any day. Yeah. So I was a fan of attractions anyway. Who's not a fan of going out on days out? And so it worked.Kelly Molson: Exactly, cool. But, Danielle, you went out and made that happen, didn't you? This was your focus.Danielle Nicholls: It was, yeah. I think, maybe not so much early on, I guess this is different, but from the age of about 13, 14, I knew I wanted to work in marketing. But I wanted to do marketing for a dance company at the time. So I did a couple of placements at some dance companies, Northern Ballet, Phoenix Dance Theatre, places like that. And that was the dream up until about 17, I want to say, when I was at college. I knew that I wanted theme parks. So I went and did a media and marketing degree. And as soon as I got to my second year, I was like, "Right, that's it. I need to find a theme park. I need to get experience. I need to connect with as many people as I can on LinkedIn." And it was my focus.Kelly Molson: That's interesting. Hang on, let me just... Because that isn't a typical 17-year-old's path, is it? They wouldn't necessarily go, "I know that I want to work in this industry, therefore, I need to connect with people that can help me make that happen." That's a really good piece of advice.Danielle Nicholls: Yeah. And I was literally on it, messaging people. I think I messaged, at the time, the PR manager for Legoland. And was like, "Hello, anything you can help me with." I was really a bit brutal. But yeah, then I went to uni, and did everything I could whilst I was there to try and get the connections still. I applied for a couple of grad schemes with some other groups and, sadly, didn't make it through to those. So as a bit of a bridge between finishing uni and starting Drayton, I went to work for a tour operator, who sold overseas UK holidays, but also sold theatre, attraction tickets, theme parks. So it was a bit of a gap between the two.And I worked there for a year, and then the job at Drayton came up. And at the time, I was living in York, working for this tour operator. And I was like, "I've got to go for it." It was a marketing officer job, so a little bit different to what I do now. But I had to. So I drove two and a bit hours up, in my little... I had a little C1 at the time.Ross Ballinger: But I feel that we both came in at Drayton in our respective roles as entry level, really. Because I had just started as a graphic designer. I took a pay cut to come here because I really wanted to start here. It was never about anything like that. So I wanted to work at Drayton. So that proves that I wanted to work. And our roles have both escalated over the seasons that we've been here.Danielle Nicholls: Because I did move so far, and away from my family and stuff, it was a big jump. I had three weeks to find a house and somewhere to live as well, which was fun. But I managed to do it and, honestly, I don't regret it. I don't look back at all. It's probably the best thing I've ever done.Ross Ballinger: If you want it, you make it happen, don't you?Kelly Molson: Yeah, totally. And I think it really says a lot about the Drayton Manor brand that you've done that as well. There is a real... It's clear with both of you, how much you love it. And it's amazing that you've... Ross, you've taken a pay cut. You've changed where you live to come and work and be part of what's happening there. So I think that's a real testimony to the brand itself. And that's a couple of things that we really want to focus on for this conversation today. So I'm going to start with the focus on you, Danielle, if that's okay?Danielle Nicholls: Okay, yeah, that's fine.Kelly Molson: Because I think what you mentioned really briefly, when you went, "Oh yeah and we do this kind of thing as well," is what you said around the social community side. So you have built the social community and I want you to explain how you've been able to do that and what that's looked like. So tell us a little bit about that element of your role.Danielle Nicholls: So I've been here just over four years now. And in that time, we've been through so much change but, also, social has changed so much. So when I first started I was looking at social but it was more, "Let's just post and leave it," kind of thing. And see how it is engaged with, see how it works. But, over time, I've tried to hone it so it's more about a social community, rather than we're just talking at them. It's more we're talking with them and we're engaging with them. Like I say, we've grown into different channels. So we were really just focusing on Facebook. We had a little bit of Twitter, and a little bit of Instagram, but it was primarily Facebook. Whereas now, we've brought in more LinkedIn stuff and TikTok as well, which has really helped. I think in terms of building the social community though, there's so many different to-dos that you can stick to. But, for me, it's more about seeing what works for your brand. Because it doesn't always fit the same, it's not just one formula that fits all.Kelly Molson: And I guess, like you said, about bringing in different social channels, you need to work out where your audience is. I guess where you're getting the most engagement as well. And then, you are a small team, how do you then divide up where you spend your time? You've got to spend it in the areas that you're going to get that engagement. So you might then end up dropping certain channels, or not being as... I don't know, not putting as much effort into those ones, just because it's just not where you get the engagement.Danielle Nicholls: I think in terms of the different channels, they all have a different audience, if that makes sense. So Facebook is very family orientated. You get the grandparents, the mums on there. Whereas, Twitter is theme park fans and slightly younger, it's very conversational. TikTok is younger, but the demographics on there are shifting slightly to be everyone at the moment. Because it's where all the trends are and things, there's a big range. Our audience on there is 13 to maybe 35, 40 upwards. So it is very varied. Instagram is a mix between Twitter and Facebook. So you do get the families and the mums on there, but then you get the theme park fans that just want to see pictures of roller coasters. And with the introduction of reels as well, that's trying to tackle TikTok, so that's really important. And LinkedIn is corporate.But we do have a team, like I say, we have a digital manager as well, but she's so busy with all the other things that she's got to look after. So the social, like creating the content and community engagement, just sits with me. So I have a big plan of all the different channels and the different days. And because I know the Drayton brand inside and out, I know what works now. So we tend to post every other day on Facebook, every day on Twitter. And we try to do every weekday on TikTok. Instagram, very similar to Facebook. But there's not really one that I'd prioritise, necessarily. At first, it was TikTok, at the start of this year, because obviously that was where it was taking off. But now, it's just about tailoring the message across, and trying to keep active on all of them.Kelly Molson: Do you have to really tailor what you put out on each of the channels as well? So you don't do, "This is going to go out across all of our socials." You have to really think about how those... Because I guess there's subtle nuances about how people react to certain things on different channels, and how they might communicate back with you.Danielle Nicholls: I think, from what I've been doing this season in particular, is Twitter's been very conversational. So I've not necessarily been worried about always having an image on there, or always having a piece of media on there. Just some text normally works, so long as it's engaging and people feel like they want to respond to it. Whether there's a CTA on there, or it's just something that's humorous, then that tends to work quite well.Kelly Molson: It's no mean feat. That is an awful lot of work that goes into that. And I think it's really interesting to hear about the tailoring as well. And how you're going to get different reactions, from different people, on different social media platforms.Danielle Nicholls: We tend to get, particularly on Facebook, in the comments, they're always really interesting to read. They're so different to Twitter. Because Facebook, sometimes you get some complaints in there. But because our community is so strong now, we get other people responding for us, which is a good... It's amazing, I love it.Kelly Molson: That's phenomenal.Danielle Nicholls: Sometimes you've got to moderate it because they might give an answer that's not necessarily right. But yeah, a lot of the time they'll be sticking up for us. Or they'll be responding to the questions for us, which is interesting.Kelly Molson: That's really impressive, and I didn't know that that happened. Is that part of, because you've put so much work into building your community, they're now backing you to other people?Danielle Nicholls: Exactly, yeah.Kelly Molson: Wow.Danielle Nicholls: Yeah. They've become our brand guardians without us making them, if that makes sense. Because they're so loyal to the brand, they just want to do all their best for us.Kelly Molson: How does that happen? Is that a time thing? Is it purely because you've spent so much time investing in those relationships that that happens now? Nobody's ever told me this before, that that happens.Danielle Nicholls: I think it's that but, also, like you say, Drayton is such a strong brand. And particularly since I've been here, we've just gone from strength to strength. So I think that helps as well. We also use user generated content. So particularly at the end of a big campaign, so Halloween, we'll say, "Share your pictures with us and we'll share them on our feeds." And that really gives them a sense of belonging as part of the community. Because they'll be scrolling down their Facebook or Instagram or wherever, and they'll see a picture of maybe their little one. Or they'll see themselves and, yeah, they love it.Kelly Molson: Yeah, I love that the whole user generated content is brilliant, because it allows people to see themselves at the place as well, doesn't it?Danielle Nicholls: Yeah.Kelly Molson: So from a sales perspective, I think if people can look at something and go, "Oh, well, that family looks just like mine." Or, "That person looks just like me." Or, "They've got this thing, just like I have." Then they're more inclined to maybe buy a ticket to come and see it as well. So it works two ways.Danielle Nicholls: It's about recognising the top fans as well. So I know Facebook has the top fan badge. And, on Twitter, we've got a closed community group which anyone can join. That's just called Drayton Manor Top Fans. And we, every so often, give them a little bit of information early before we give it to everybody else. Or little things like that, that make them feel special.Kelly Molson: So they feel like VIPs.Danielle Nicholls: So it keeps them interactive. Yes, exactly.Kelly Molson: They've got their own mini community. They feel like VIPs because they get to know stuff early. That's brilliant. Again, I've never heard any other attraction talk about doing stuff like that. Do you think that would be... I always ask about top tips, and what you would recommend other people to do that are building communities. Do you think that would be one of your top tips, is really invest in them?Danielle Nicholls: Yeah. And also, respond in a personal manner, rather than it being very corporate. Include your tone of voice, wherever you can, and make sure your tone of voice is dead on point, according to your brand guidelines. But also, be bold and brave. We always say that, don't we?Ross Ballinger: Bold and brave, yeah.Danielle Nicholls: If you sway away from your brand guidelines slightly, in order to respond, particularly on Twitter, it works really well. Then don't worry too much about that. It's okay, so long as it's in keeping with your values then it's okay.Ross Ballinger: And it's evident out there as well with all the other big companies. And it becomes a news story, doesn't it, when you get supermarkets battling on Twitter. And it's exposure and engagement at the same time.Kelly Molson: And people love that.Danielle Nicholls: That's another really important thing.Ross Ballinger: Yeah, people love it. It's a comedy show.Danielle Nicholls: Yeah, engaging with other brands helps.Kelly Molson: Yeah, they want to know about the people behind the brands, don't they? And if they realise that your brand face, actually there's a human behind it who's got a sense of humour, I think that goes a really long way.Danielle Nicholls: That's what we try and do.Kelly Molson: You do it perfectly, because I love your Twitter chat. You've got a great Twitter chat. We've talked loads about brand today, and that leads me on to what I want to talk to you about, Ross, which is the Drayton Manor brand itself. Because I think, I might have got this wrong, but it's a 70 year old brand. So Drayton Manor's about 70 years old.Ross Ballinger: Yeah, 1950 was when it first came about, yeah. The Bryan family started it in the 1950s. So George Bryan Sr., had this vision to create an inland pleasure resort for the local community. And I guess, in short story, it escalated from there.Danielle Nicholls: We've got a book all about it in the shops.Ross Ballinger: Yeah, yeah. So yeah, we owe a lot to the Bryan family, really, for escalating such a tiny little brainchild into a massive attraction that we are today. So yeah, I can remember thinking that we needed to rebrand years ago though, when I first started. Because I think it's just one of those that was a little bit... I don't want to say anything bad about it but obviously it needed to change. It was a little bit outdated.Danielle Nicholls: It was a bit archaic, wasn't it?Ross Ballinger: Yeah, it was a bit archaic. It stood the test of time and it did a good job.Kelly Molson: So how long had the existing brand been in place, before you got your mitts on it?Ross Ballinger: I think the last logo that we had in the brand was probably in place for about 20 years. I think it's early 2000s, the last logo.Danielle Nicholls: There was always slight variations, wasn't there?Ross Ballinger: Yeah, there was always a few modifications on it.Kelly Molson: But I can imagine that things had changed quite dramatically over those 20 years as well. So you talk about the need for a rebrand, it was really needed.Ross Ballinger: Absolutely.Kelly Molson: What I always think's quite interesting is how long some of these things take. Because I think that people don't fully understand how long a rebrand can actually take you. So can you remember when those conversations first started?Ross Ballinger: Since I started, it's always been a project that was a pinnacle project that we always wanted to try and get on to. But just in terms of budgets and time, we never got around to it. Obviously, it came to the point, I think it was November 2021, when we first sat down and said, "Now is the time to do it." Because, obviously, we were bought out by a big company, Looping Group, and it was the perfect opportunity to do it. It's obviously a new era so it made perfect sense.Kelly Molson: So when did you launch it? So November, you sat down and went, "Right, November '21, we're going to do this." When did it actually launch?Ross Ballinger: Literally-Danielle Nicholls: Two minutes later.Ross Ballinger: Six months.Kelly Molson: Six months?Ross Ballinger: Six months, yeah. We put a brand team together, firstly. And, honestly, because we're such a small in-house team, we knew that we needed some help. So we got agency help, and we got local agencies to pitch in their best processes. So they were the experts in doing it, and they knew what protocols and procedures to go through. And we chose a really talented local agency in Birmingham. Yeah, started the project in '21, and launched it six months later.Kelly Molson: Wow, that's a phenomenal amount of work in six months.Ross Ballinger: Yeah. In, I don't know, design industry terms and the size of the business, that's no time at all, really.Kelly Molson: No, it's not. I honestly thought you were going to say we started talking about this three years ago and it took two years. It was a two year process.Ross Ballinger: The best thing was, is that we were doing that, alongside launching our brand new Vikings area. So we've got three new rides launch. We're launching a new website at the same time.Danielle Nicholls: We had a new booking system.Ross Ballinger: Yeah, a new ticketing system. As well as the regular day to day work and seasonal campaigns to market. It was literally like all Christmases come at once.Danielle Nicholls: It was. Everything we'd wanted for so long, they just went, "There you go."Ross Ballinger: All at the same time.Kelly Molson: You can have it all, but you need to do it in this amount of time. Wow. That is such a lot to all be happening at the same time. But I'm not going to lie, this happens at attractions. Suddenly, they just spring into action. We have just worked with a client with exactly the same. They did a rebrand, new website, booking system, all at the same time. And you're like, "Ah, the world is on fire. What's happening?"Danielle Nicholls: It was great though.Ross Ballinger: It was good though. We collaborated for most of it. The agency were a bit of a rock, really. And they did a lot of the legwork in terms of the brand personality, putting together the guidelines, creating the initial design concepts. But I did sit alongside them and collaborate with them. It would've just been a too big a task solely, on my own, internally, which it wouldn't have been possible. But I'd like to think I had a lot of input, inspirational design ideas along the way, that probably helped chisel the final outcome and the look of the brand that we've got now.Danielle Nicholls: Just logos in itself, you had sheets and sheets of-Ross Ballinger: Sheets and sheets of logos, yeah, logo concepts and variations. But I know I wanted something that was super flexible in terms of composition and layout. Because I know what I'd created before, it was archaic, but it was flexible. It would work on all different platforms. And then the typeface that we chose for the final logo was one of my early typefaces that I pitched in. And the swirl, that was one of my babies, that was one of my original concepts. So I always wanted to push that.Kelly Molson: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I love that. But that's what makes for a good agency client relationship is that you do collaborate. That's how it should be. And they obviously nailed it. And I know that you would've had so many stakeholders involved in this process as well. So I can imagine how big a challenge that was to actually come to a final, "This is what it's going to be like," and everyone be happy.Ross Ballinger: It was a challenge, but only because we had a lot of passionate stakeholders that wanted valued input. And they had strong views, which was very fair.Kelly Molson: So the bit that ties these two stories together, the things that we've talked about today, is that... I think you alluded to the fact, Ross. That when the brand launched, it's a big change for people. The way that you've talked about the brand is incredibly passionate. I can imagine that local people, people that come to visit every week, every month, they are so... The brand is in their heart. So a big change like this can be quite uncomfortable for people. And when the brand launched, there was a little bit of-Ross Ballinger: Yeah, there was a bit of uncertainty, yeah, and a bit of shock. Yeah, they've had a logo installed in their brain for 20 years. But when we wanted to launch the rebrand, it wasn't just about a logo. We did focus on the logo probably, in hindsight, more than we should have.Danielle Nicholls: I think that's maybe a bit of a learning curve, particularly on social. The asset that we used was the old logo going into the new logo, which we thought was great. But then when we put it out, we were like, "Actually, maybe we should have focused more on..." Like you say, brand personality and visions and values, rather than just the logo.Ross Ballinger: Because the end user hasn't really seen the six months of graft that's gone into creating that. And we did portray it in five seconds.Kelly Molson: So they just get the, "Hey, this is new, you should love it." But they haven't understood about the process of why you've done certain things, and the decisions that have been made.Danielle Nicholls: Exactly, yeah. We had a blog which explained it all perfectly, but you had to click through to the blog. People didn't necessarily do that. They just saw the logo and keyboard-Ross Ballinger: But I like the journey we went through because the people that didn't actually really like it in the beginning and really just sacked it off straight away, they're the people that have warmed to it now. And seen it in execution, and how adaptable it is, and how we can get our messages across. And the fact that they love it now, and I love that, that we've turned them round.Danielle Nicholls: Because the main thing we were trying to do, really, is come away from fun family memories, and turn it to fun for everyone. That was the main message that we wanted to portray, particularly on the social channels, and in brand in general. But I think going forward we're definitely going to achieve that.Kelly Molson: But it's quite interesting because I think what you talked about earlier, Danielle, your social community, they would've played a big part in this when you launched it. So I guess it would've been harder if you hadn't already built those relationships and nurtured that community. Launching something like this, would've been 1,000 times more difficult than actually... All right, there was a bit of a bump in the road, but it wasn't the end of the world. And people, like you say, are now warming to it and loving it. Would that have happened if you hadn't put all that work into the social community aspect?Danielle Nicholls: Possibly not. I think, like I said earlier, there was a lot of people, they had our backs. So there was people like, "This is..." Being very negative. But people were responding saying, "Look, they have to move forward, they've been through this, that and the other. They have to move forward. See the positives," which was good.Ross Ballinger: I think as well, probably because we've got such a good social community, they felt comfortable with saying what they thought about it and being honest.Danielle Nicholls: Which helps because we did run focus groups beforehand, as part of the rebrand process, with suppliers, annual pass holders, staff members, literally with so many people. But until it's out there, you're not necessarily going to get that big, full, wider picture. So it did help us with how we were going to move forward with the rebrand as well, looking at their feedback.Kelly Molson: So you actually took some of their... So obviously from the focus groups, you would've taken on board some of the input that you got from those. When it launched, was there anything that you took on board from the feedback that you were getting at that point? That you could look to, not necessarily change, but I guess look at the ways that you implement it in a different way?Danielle Nicholls: I think the main thing was, like we said, the logo situation. Because everyone was so focused on the logo, we knew that, moving forwards, as we were going to explore the brand even more, we had to make sure it was about the imagery and the personality. And including the shop line there and things like that, rather than... I think that learning curve definitely came from the feedback.Kelly Molson: Brilliant. It is such a huge project to go through a rebrand. And I think there's always that anxious moment when you unveil it to people and they go... It could be a bit Marmite. But I think the way that it's been managed, that's the important part of this story, really. And that comes back to, again, it all fits together about how the two of you work together as well. And I think that's quite an important aspect to take away from this podcast episode as well. It's about, it's a team, this is a team thing that happens here. And it's not just about one person. So the brand has launched and then, suddenly, it's all on Danielle's shoulders to deal with all the stuff that's coming back. It's, this is a team thing.Ross Ballinger: Well, no, it cascaded all the way through the company, didn't it?Danielle Nicholls: Yeah.Ross Ballinger: People would be like... Even engineers, and everyone, and HR, they were like... They felt the same... It was almost a little bit of disappointment that the reaction wasn't amazing. But then, everybody felt it.Danielle Nicholls: But we all came together and-Ross Ballinger: Yeah.Danielle Nicholls: Our director of people bought us a box of Krispy Kremes in the office that day. And was like, "There you go, guys. Are you all okay?" And we were like, "Yeah, it's all good."Ross Ballinger: But there's obviously horror stories of brands doing this and reverting back. But we knew that we'd got something that was amazing that we were going to stick to. And once we knew we could roll it out, that it was going to flourish. So we're just glad that we stuck to our guns and just... We had the negativity at the beginning and, now, people love it.Danielle Nicholls: Like you say, we have people coming up to us, just telling me it's good. Saying, "I wasn't sure at first? But now we love it."Kelly Molson: Ah, see, and that's what you want. You want it to be loved by everybody that sees it now. That's brilliant. You just reminded me of something that I saw a few weeks ago. Have you seen the video when Staples changed their logo, they put out?Danielle Nicholls: Yes.Ross Ballinger: Yes, yes.Kelly Molson: That's just like, as you were talking about it, I was going, "Oh my God, I watched that last week." And it's so crazy.Danielle Nicholls: Yeah. And they're all like, "Whoopa." It's amazing.Kelly Molson: "Wow, look at us." And I just didn't think it was amazing either. But I just felt really sorry for the whole team being forced to clap it and, "Yay, a logo." Oh dear, if that's what they thought brand was-Ross Ballinger: I loved it. I just think that's how you should do it, even if it is a bit cringey.Danielle Nicholls: I thought it was hilarious.Ross Ballinger: What they've done is open up the stapler in the logo, and put it on the side. But sometimes that probably would've cost them an arm and a leg just to do that as well.Danielle Nicholls: So much time.Kelly Molson: There's a massive buildup to that happening as well. And I was a bit like, "Wow, that's a massive anticlimax."Danielle Nicholls: A big press conference for it.Ross Ballinger: I just loved everything about it, honestly.Kelly Molson: The next rebrand, that's what you'll be doing, Ross. You'll get everyone in the attraction, you'll launch it on a big screen. I think what you've done, and what you've achieved, is phenomenal. Thank you for coming on the podcast and talking to me about it today. I really appreciate it. As ever, we always ask our guests if they've got a book that they love that they'd like to share with our audience. So you can pick one each.Danielle Nicholls: I think for me... And going back to me being a theme park nerd, this ties in very well. John Wardley, who is-Ross Ballinger: No.Danielle Nicholls: I know, right. John Wardley, who is a big theme park, mainly rollercoaster, designer. He's done work for Merlin, PortAventura, Oakwood, so many. He was really, really big. He worked on things like Nemesis, Oblivion, Katanga Canyon at Alton Towers, was Megafobia at Oakwood. He had an autobiography called Creating Your Nemesis, which basically spanned through his life of how we got into the theme park industry and where we went through. And it's very story based and anecdotal, but it was really inspiring. And helped me create the courage to knock on doors and do that kind of thing.Kelly Molson: Oh, I love that. Great book. Great book choice.Ross Ballinger: That's a really good response to the question. See, I'm a designer so I don't really read. I can read, but I just don't read. I'm very visual, as you can imagine. So I'm just not a fan of reading. I prefer to just scroll through Instagram and TikTok. But I have read books in the past. I remember one book, I think it's probably the only book I have read, was The Da Vinci Code by Dan Brown. I think it's Dan Brown. But that's only because I was interested in Leonardo da Vinci, who was obviously a scientist or an... He was a bit of an artist and an architect. So I was more interested in his theories, and his Vitruvian Man, I think it is. So I was more interested in his works, really. But other than that, I do own every book by Jamie Oliver, so if a cookbook works.Kelly Molson: I don't know if you should be sharing that.Ross Ballinger: So yeah, I love Jamie Oliver. 5 Ingredients, 30 Minute Meals, brilliant.Kelly Molson: Jamie Oliver gets a bad rap and I don't really know why because he seems like a nice guy.Danielle Nicholls: Are we going back to unpopular opinion?Kelly Molson: Well, I think we should. But also a little story in that. I live in Saffron Walden, Jamie Oliver lives five minutes around the corner.Ross Ballinger: He's down the road.Kelly Molson: He goes to the market in my town every Saturday, and goes and buys his-Ross Ballinger: Oh, I'd love to meet him.Danielle Nicholls: You'd be there for a selfie.Kelly Molson: Ross, join the queue. I'd love to meet him. I've lived here since 2019. I've never seen him once. All my friends have seen him. And now, it's a thing with them. They're like, "Have you seen him yet? Have you seen him?" No. And I feel like, I'm not a Jamie Oliver stalker. I'm not going to go and harass him. I just would like to live in the town and be like, "Oh yeah, I saw him this morning." I've never seen him. My mum has been messaging me once, and she's been in the cafe in Saffron Walden, and been like, "I think Jamie Oliver's on the table next to me. I'm not sure if it's him though. I don't know if it's a fat version of Jamie Oliver, or if it's actually... Oh no, it is Jamie. It's Jamie Oliver."Ross Ballinger: Oh no. I can understand why people don't like him. But he just sploshes his olive oil everywhere, sploshes it around. But he has got that passion for cooking, which is what I resonate with. So he loves what he does, he's so-Danielle Nicholls: You can't knock his passion.Ross Ballinger: You can't knock his passion. So I'm in tune with that.Kelly Molson: All right. Listeners, well, I think that we should scrap Ross's book choice, and I think we should go with the Jamie Oliver book. So if you head over to Twitter, and you retweet this Twitter announcement with, "I want Ross and Danielle's books," then you might be in with a chance of winning Danielle's book and a Jamie Oliver cookbook. Does that sound fair?Ross Ballinger: Yeah, that'd be ace.Kelly Molson: I feel like you were more passionate about that.Ross Ballinger: Yeah, yeah, yeah.Kelly Molson: All right, let's do that then. Thank you. It was lovely to have you both on. I've really, really enjoyed it.Ross Ballinger: Thank you.Danielle Nicholls: Thank you.Kelly Molson: And also thank you for the lovely little tour that I got of the new Vikings area at Drayton Manor, when you hosted the UK Theme Park Awards earlier this year.Danielle Nicholls: I'm glad you liked it.Ross Ballinger: Yeah, we did, yeah.Kelly Molson: It was awesome.Danielle Nicholls: It was amazing.Ross Ballinger: I think that's where you spotted us.Danielle Nicholls: Yeah.Kelly Molson: Well, look, I'm not going to lie, you guys were sitting behind me and you were extremely loud. And I thought, "They'll make great podcast guests."Danielle Nicholls: We were whooping everyone.Ross Ballinger: We had so much energy that day though. I was knackered by the end of the day.Kelly Molson: I loved it. No, you hosted it perfectly. It was a brilliant event. But the new area is fantastic, so definitely go on, book your ticket.Ross Ballinger: We're very proud of it.Kelly Molson: And go on and see that while you can. So thanks for coming on, guys.Ross Ballinger: Thank you.Danielle Nicholls: Thank you.Kelly Molson: Thanks for listening to Skip the Queue. If you've enjoyed this podcast, please leave us a five star review. It really helps others find us. And remember to follow us on Twitter for your chance to win the books that have been mentioned. Skip The Queue is brought to you by Rubber Cheese, a digital agency that builds remarkable systems and websites for attractions, that helps them increase their visitor numbers. You can find show notes and transcriptions from this episode and more, over on our website; rubber cheese.com/podcast.
Skip the Queue is brought to you by Rubber Cheese, a digital agency that builds remarkable systems and websites for attractions that helps them increase their visitor numbers. Your host is Kelly Molson, MD of Rubber Cheese.Download our free ebook The Ultimate Guide to Doubling Your Visitor NumbersIf you like what you hear, you can subscribe on iTunes, Spotify, and all the usual channels by searching Skip the Queue or visit our website rubbercheese.com/podcast.If you've enjoyed this podcast, please leave us a five star review, it really helps others find us. And remember to follow us on Twitter for your chance to win the books that have been mentioned in this podcastCompetition ends January 31st 2023. The winner will be contacted via Twitter. Show references: https://aromaprime.com/https://www.linkedin.com/in/liam-r-findlay/Smells for Theme Parks and Dementia Care: AromaPrime on BBC NewsKickstarter for the game where a reward is a scent collection, based on the locations in the game Smell tour of Amsterdam Liam R. Findlay is a designer of themed attractions who also works for AromaPrime, advising attractions on how to enhance their experiences using scent. AromaPrime was founded in 1973, and it creates weird and wonderful pongs for venues like Alton Towers, The British Museum and Madame Tussauds. The company's collection of over 400 concoctions ranges from Dinosaur to Dungeon, and Pirate Ship to Penguin Sick. While Liam helps clients select or develop the best smells to tell their stories, he also assists in implementing them in the most effective ways. Transcriptions: Kelly Molson: Welcome to Skip the Queue, a podcast for people working in or working with visitor attractions. I'm your host, Kelly Molson.We're getting smelly on the podcast today as I speak with Liam Findlay, Multisensory Attraction Designer and Sensing Specialist at AromaPrime. Liam discusses the use of Aroma's storytelling and psychological influences in your attraction and why smell is a form of mind control. If you like what you hear, you can subscribe on iTunes, Spotify, and all the usual channels by searching Skip the Queue.Kelly Molson: Liam, hello. Welcome to Skip the Queue.Liam Findlay: Hi, how are you?Kelly Molson: I'm very good. How are you is the question?Liam Findlay: I'm very good. Fatigued from lots of orders, but it's a good thing.Kelly Molson: Right, we'll talk about that in a minute because it's a very busy season for you. Our listeners will find out why soon, but first, icebreaker questions. So I'm going to start with a couple of topical ones. I want to know, what is your favourite smell and also, what is the smell that turns your stomach?Liam Findlay: My favourite smell is probably a kind of, when I was growing up there was an attraction called The Timewalk in the town I lived in, and it had a musty smell in a Black Death scene. And it was very scary and dark in there and it had that horrible smell but the attraction's been closed for over a decade now, and everyone in the town remembers it for its Black Death smell. And now I work for the company that made that smell, so I have kind of a personal connection to it.Kelly Molson: Oh, how funny. Okay, so do they have the smell in the archives? So can you go and find the smell and it takes you back to that attraction?Liam Findlay: Yeah, we're selling it now as The Timewalk smell for locals who might want to transport themselves back.Kelly Molson: This is amazing. And again, this is something that we will talk about a little bit later, the reasons why smell is so emotive for people. Okay. And what about the worst smell?Liam Findlay: I'm not sure when it comes to that because I'm so used to all sorts of horrible smells, and especially with AromaPrime, everything's artificial so I know it's just chemicals, so I don't tend to be repulsed by them. Personally, I think things that are to do with people's mouths, like food-related smells or if someone's just been eating and you can smell it.Kelly Molson: Like if someone had eaten raw onion or something like that? Yeah, okay. All right. I mean, mine's tequila but there's a whole other story around that that we'll save for another day. All right. What are you most likely to buy when you exit through the gift shop?Liam Findlay: Probably a magnet for my parents' fridge.Kelly Molson: Do they collect magnets when they go on holiday and stuff? Is it full of them?Liam Findlay: Yeah, it's kind of a mandatory thing, if someone goes on holiday they have to get a magnet for the fridge.Kelly Molson: Okay. All right, I like that. That's quite a good collection to have. Liam Findlay: Unless they sell smells, Efteling sells smells of its rides in its gift shop. So that's a must do for me.Kelly Molson: I've never heard of that before. Is that the only attraction that you know that does that?Liam Findlay: I think Europa Park might have done it, and Blackpool Pleasure Beach has candles that are inspired by the rides, but they aren't the actual smells. So yeah, I don't know why more places don't do it.Kelly Molson: Well, maybe they will after they hear this podcast, Liam, who knows? Okay. And if you could choose any attraction to create a smell for, what attraction would it be?Liam Findlay: It's hard to say because I kind of work on lots of smells for all sorts of attractions anyway. I think I always enjoy kind of time travel ones, maybe linking back to The Timewalk attraction that I grew up with, because they always have a nice variety of smells with all the different time periods you can go through.Kelly Molson: Okay, yeah, all right. So yeah, there's a little bit of variety involved in what you could create with them, so it wouldn't all be the same.Liam Findlay: Yeah.Kelly Molson: Okay, interesting. Thank you. All right, Liam, what's your unpopular opinion?Liam Findlay: I would say that bad smells are not necessarily bad in that like I was just saying they can bring back memories. We work with lots of care homes at AromaPrime, and sometimes you can have a horrible fishy smell that's used in scare mazes, but it's also used to bring back memories for people that used to be fishermen or fisherwomen. Bad smells, if you put them in different contexts, they can actually not be so bad. Sometimes you can have a kind of horrible manure smell, but if you present it as something like a lovely countryside kind of atmosphere, people can react positively to it. And actually, rhino dung, I was sniffing some rhino dung last week.Kelly Molson: As you do.Liam Findlay: At Chessington World of Adventures, and we were saying how it's just got a lovely kind of grassy smell to it because the rhinos eat grass, but then when you realise it's rhino dung, you might end up reacting to it negatively.Kelly Molson: So we need to reframe our minds around what that smell is and take away the bad connotation of it?Liam Findlay: Yeah. Bad smells are perhaps not always necessarily bad depending on how you look at them, that's my message.Kelly Molson: All right, listeners, well let us know what you think. As ever, I'm going to need to reframe tequila in my mind. Maybe, I don't know, maybe if we meet up at an event, someone can help me do that, who knows? I thought about you while I was on holiday a few weeks ago, Liam. I don't often think about many of my podcast guests when I'm on a holiday, but you definitely came to mind. It was because of some of the things that we're going to talk about today.So I took my husband and my daughter into the Museum of Torture, which was a very small museum in Tuscany, in Sienna, probably not child friendly, I'm not going to lie. I don't think my 14 month old was overly impressed. But it was very small museum, we went down into the dungeon area and it was very small and it was very dark and it smelt really musty. And it was the one part of the museum for me that really captured that sense of for like, "Oh, this is a dangerous place to be, something horrid is going to happen here." And it was because of the smell. You didn't have that in any of the other areas.And it was really fascinating, you walked around and you looked at these torture instruments and you saw how people were treated and what they did to people but that area was the one place that it really got under my skin and up my nose, but for the right reasons because of the smell. And it instantly made me think about you and what you guys do. So tell us a little bit about AromaPrime and then tell us a little bit about what your role is there.Liam Findlay: Well, AromaPrime's been around since 1973, so we're turning 50 next year and throughout that time we've been making immersive smells for visitor attractions. So it could be to kind of increase anticipation and anxiety in a rollercoaster queue with the smell of fire, for example, like at Alton Towers it's Wickerman rollercoaster. Or it could be to educate people and engage them in the past if it's a historical smell. It could be to kind of bring about certain feelings if they're walking into a hotel and you want a lovely signature scent that's going to make people relaxed, or if it's historical or a nostalgic sense that are used in care homes like I was just saying to kind of bring back fond memories. So there's kind of lots of ways you can use smells to trick the mind and change how people feel, maybe feeling anxious in the Torture Museum.And my job is to advise attractions on how to implement these smells and which smells might work best and kind of lead to the best results in their attractions. So whether they want to make people feel a certain way or if they want to tell a certain story and use smells to change how the story's being told as it developed. So it's very exciting, always lots of different projects.Kelly Molson: It is. And I'm really intrigued about how you came to be in this role. So your bio says that you advise on Aroma's storytelling influences, psychological influences and thematic influences, as well as practical ways to utilise aroma in different environments. All of this is really, really fascinating. But what did you study and how did you get to be this person that advises them on all these things?Liam Findlay: Well, I actually did an animation degree and then I worked in the animation industry for a while. And from that I kind of learned lots of design skills and storytelling skills and I ended up putting that into work at an escape room where I designed escape rooms. So there was kind of sound design and visual design and telling stories again. And then I ended up working freelance designing experiences and museum interpretation for attractions like castles and more escape rooms and a ghost train on one occasion. And through working in the attractions industry as a designer, I wondered if I could maybe contribute my kind of understanding of the processes behind attraction design and put that into smell. And I knew that AromaPrime existed and I wondered if maybe I could help them out through that. So I sent them an email and they said, "Oh, we're looking for someone like you," and they took me on and I think it was late 2018 maybe so it's been a few years now and it's been going quite well.Kelly Molson: So you've kind of honed your craft working at AromaPrime. So can you just explain a little bit about, I understand about the storytelling influences that we talked about and how smell brings back those memories and it can transport you to a different place, tell me about the psychological influences and the thematic influences. What do you mean by those? How does that work?Liam Findlay: It's a bit like what I was saying about the rollercoaster queue or in a scare maze, for example, you might use a pleasant smell that lots of people have a familiar connection with like the smell of bananas. Maybe not everyone likes bananas, maybe the smell of chocolate, to kind of lift people's spirits and give them a false sense of security so that when they suddenly turn a corner and see something horrid and it has a disgusting kind of rotten smell, you're kind of crafting the psychological journey for them. So you're bringing back these pleasant emotions and memories and then you're twisting it. And maybe that horrible smell will be the smell of vomit that most people will have really unpleasant associations with and it'll make them feel uncomfortable when suddenly a pig man jumps out with a chainsaw. So you can tie the sense into how the story develops and manipulate or influence emotions as it goes along.Kelly Molson: Yeah. And what about the thematic influences? What does that mean in terms of smell?Liam Findlay: It's probably the most basic way of looking at sense. So at fantasy experience for example, like we did a wizard mini golf attraction recently, so it's kind of binding or creating sense that apply to a theme. And sometimes that can be tricky if it's a fantasy theme, you might not really be sure what kinds of smells potions have. But with our unicorn smell, for example, we sniff some horses, as you would, and we read lots of ancient myths about unicorns and we kind of approached it like we would approach historical smells. So we want them to be backed up with stories and kind of authenticity where possible to make sure that the theme is as strong as it can be.Kelly Molson: Isn't that funny though because when you said unicorn, the image of unicorn in my head is glittery and pink because every little girls are obsessed by glittery pink unicorns. And so I was like, "Oh yeah, but for me, unicorns smell a bit sugary," a sweet sugary smell they'd smell like.Liam Findlay: Yeah, well that's what the final product is really. It's like got a little undertone of horse, but it's mostly like a birthday cake.Kelly Molson: Yes. Oh, I love that. Thank you for explaining that. That's put me right. Yeah, it's really weird how you see what something looks like and you instantly imagine what it smells like, even though I have no clue what a unicorn smells like, obviously.I guess it's the same feeling, the one that you spoke about in terms of making people feel comfortable and then shocking them is, I can remember reading something years ago about if you are selling your house, have some freshly baked bread just come out of the oven because that is a smell that everyone finds quite comforting and quite homely. And so then if you can smell that while you're in a new home, you think, "Oh yeah, I could see myself living here. This is a cozy place to be, isn't it?" So it's that kind of sense that you're trying to get build in people.Liam Findlay: Yeah, it's a big thing in retail using scents in shops. There was a study where people went into a room, I think it was full of shoes and it wasn't scented and they kind of responded to what they thought of the products, whether it was shoes or not. And then there were some other participants who went into a room that was scented and it had the same products and the people in the scented room valued the products as being more expensive, or they guessed that they would be more expensive because they saw them as a higher quality because the room was scented even though they didn't realise it was the scent that was causing that.Kelly Molson: Because they could smell the leather and the... Right, okay. Gosh, that's interesting, isn't it? How it can affect how you perceive something as well.Liam Findlay: Yeah, it can change perception. And also like you say about pleasant smells, if you smell something like bread, it makes you kind of hungry because it kind of triggers those memories of enjoying bread and therefore you'll start to kind of seek it out and you won't necessarily find bread, but you'll seek out some kind of satisfaction and that satisfaction might end up being purchasing something.Kelly Molson: A very expensive house purchase.Liam Findlay: Yeah.Kelly Molson: How do you create smells? Because I watched one of the interviews that you did, I think it's for the BBC, which I will link to in the show notes, it's really interesting. But I think one of them said that your recipes, some of them are based on 30 year old recipes, these smells. So how do you even start to create the smells?Liam Findlay: Well, yeah, well like I was saying, we are turning 50 next year, so it was actually slightly inaccurate in the BBC video is-Kelly Molson: Sorry, kids, it's wrong.Liam Findlay: Well that was my fault, I told them the wrong date. Because actually, there are not many records about the company history and I only a while ago realised or found a document that said when it was founded. So it's always been a bit of a mystery. But yeah, over that time we've accumulated over 400 aromas, so we've kind of got a big stock of anything anyone could imagine just about. And if they want something that's a bit more specific, sometimes we might combine our existing scents. So it might be a bit of grass with a bit of rotten eggs for some kind of Roald Dahl soup for example. And then if we are making something from scratch, it will be a case of finding the chemicals that kind of have certain qualities like you might have a chemical that is generally used in rose products because it has a rose smell and then you can combine it with others. And often we'll have references like maybe rhino dung, we've been sent otter poo and jaguar urine before to get that right.Kelly Molson: In the post? Go get the post today, I wonder what could be in it, that's a surprise.Liam Findlay: Yeah. So sometimes we'll be kind of mixing things and sniffing and then we'll also send lots of samples to the clients so they can say if it's accurate or not and it works that way.Kelly Molson: That's brilliant, isn't it? Funny to understand what might turn up in your letter box each day. So when you work with an attraction, Halloween is a very obvious market for you. There's lots of scare things that happening and they are very smell related. But how do you work with an attraction? What's that process of them calling you in and going, "Look, we've got this thing that we are doing, how can you work with us?" What do you do?Liam Findlay: It kind of varies on what their end goal is. Sometimes regardless of what the kind of function of the attraction is, sometimes it will just be a case of them telling us how large the space is and then we'll advise on the kind of machine that they'll need because we do machines as well and the themes as well and then we'll suggest some scents and then they put them in the machines. And it can be quite a quick process sometimes.If it's more complex, it might be like a museum that wants a historical scent and they don't want it spreading around the whole museum and stinking things out or ruining the paintings down the corridor, there can be more advice to give in that regard. So museums often it's good to use what's called dry diffusion when you have an object that's scented rather than liquid kind of going out as a mist into the air. So that object will just kind of emit a smell and you can maybe put a lid over it or have it in a container that has a puffer. So yeah, I would often ask what the end goal is and then kind of make some suggestions from there.Kelly Molson: Yeah, because I hadn't thought about if it's a museum, those artefacts and those things could be damaged by certain smells. It's also, I guess you have to be quite consultative in your approach about what you offer to them individually.Liam Findlay: Yeah, another case or another issue can be around whether people want to smell things or not. Like if they go to a scare maze, they'll probably expect to be repulsed. But if you go into a museum, I suppose it's because people aren't really used to it, they're not always prepared to sniff things. So it can be good to have flaps so people can choose whether they're going to smell things or not. Or maybe some places will put up little warnings if it's kind of a profound world war trench set that they can walk into and there's going to be horrible smell of bodies and things. Sometimes there might be a warning because it almost equates to having gory images, like in museums you'll have warnings that there'll be gory images here.Kelly Molson: Yeah, and I guess talking about what we were saying earlier about those emotive, it can take you right back to a place, I guess that could be quite frightening for some people as well if they don't want to be taken back to those places, for example.Liam Findlay: Yeah. And because smell's kind of flexible and a horrible smell relating to war could also be a horrible smell relating to some other unpleasant personal memory. So yeah, sometimes you have to think about how the smell's going to be presented in a way that's going to work for the visitors.Kelly Molson: Okay. Thorpe Park, the Dungeons and Warwick Castle all have promotional scent ranges. This is something that you helped them develop, isn't it? I think this was during the pandemic. Am I right? So can you tell us about this? How did this happen?Liam Findlay: Well, it was a tricky time because all the parks were closed so the parks were wondering what to do while they were closed. And the parks were our customers as well, so we couldn't sell to them. So everyone was kind of out of action at that point. So we were kind of thinking of ways that we could engage people in our products for the parks and for us. So I think it was Thorpe Park we approached first and we just suggested that we could kind of release some of their smells that they used in their scare mazes and eventually it was Warwick Castle and the smells they used in their Kingmaker Experience and the Dungeons and their smells to make them available, branded under the scenes that they appear in those attractions so people could buy the Blacksmith smell at the Warwick Castle Kingmaker Experience. And that was a nice way to take people back to the attractions while they weren't able to visit.And it helped AromaPrime as well because we were kind of profiting from the customers of our customers in a way that everyone was kind of happy with because it was promoting the parks and the customers were happy because they were being taken back to the parks. There was one customer who contacted me and was thanking me for the opportunity to buy the smell of the Tomb Blaster ride at Chessington World of Adventures because her sister had autism and she was really struggling with the lockdown and being able to transport herself back to the ride through the smell during lockdown kind of brought her lots of comfort. So it turned out to be a kind of lovely and beneficial project for everyone, a nice way of adapting to the scenario.Kelly Molson: That is so wonderful, isn't it? By the power of smell, being able to be in your favourite place without being able to leave your house. That's incredible, what an amazing thing to have been able to do.Liam Findlay: Yeah, and fans really enjoy it. The Wicker Man Woodsmoke smell from Alton Towers is really popular and we get people that diffuse it in their living room and make all the lights red and they play the music and send us photos.Kelly Molson: That's taking true fan to a whole nother level, isn't it? Recreating the smell of your favourite attraction in your living room, wow. Okay, that's great. But there's other ways of using smells as well, isn't it? And I think this is something that you've been talking about quite a lot on LinkedIn that I was really interested in. A smell tour of Amsterdam has been developed. And you've been part of this, haven't you? So this isn't just about attractions, this is about tourism as well. Tell us about this. I don't fully understand what it is and how you've developed it.Liam Findlay: Well, this was run by Odeuropa, who I've been collaborating with a lot. And Odeuropa is a kind of global group of academics who are working to improve the ways that senses are used to tell historical stories and how they are used their museums. And one of their projects was this smell tour of Amsterdam and this was done through a scratch and sniff card. So my job was to illustrate the card and it was a map of Amsterdam so you could kind of follow a route and go to an apothecary that had a certain ingredient to its perfume that it once used or you could go down to the canals and smell what the canals used to smell like hundreds of years ago and kind of scratch as you went around. And they developed an app as well so you could kind of track where you were going.And that was a really nice way to engage people in history and they were able to access the stories themselves. They weren't just going through a museum and reading stuff, they were properly exploring and sniffing and taking it all in. And it was a really exciting way. It was throughout the month of September and the cards were available at Amsterdam Museum and it was an exciting way to get people enjoying and almost living the past because they were going through the real places where all this stuff happened.Kelly Molson: That's such a brilliant idea. So yeah, it's completely immersive, isn't it? You are in the area, you're doing a walking tour so you can see the places that are being described to you and then you can smell what they smell like a hundred years ago.Liam Findlay: Yeah, it was cool.Kelly Molson: Wow. That is really cool.Liam Findlay: Got lots of good responses.Kelly Molson: And I guess you worked with them in the same mode that you would an attraction, it's just understanding what used to be there, finding the smells that you already have and then bringing them all together into the scratch card.Liam Findlay: Yeah. In this case, Odeuropa already had the smells because they've been working on lots of different historical smells themselves like the smell of hell, I think based on a kind of 1700s painting, maybe it was another century.Kelly Molson: And what does hell smell like? Can you describe it to us?Liam Findlay: From what I understand, it's mostly fire and bodies.Kelly Molson: Burning hot stuff? Okay.Liam Findlay: But one of the members of Odeuropa had worked on an exhibition in The Hague where people could go around a gallery and they had paintings and smell puffers like foot pumps so they could pump it and a smell would come out and that would be the smell of the painting or of something that was in the painting. And it was a nice way to kind of engage them with the contents of the painting, kind of look a bit harder and think about what's making that smile and why did it smell that way? So Odeuropa already had lots of interesting smiles that they could incorporate into this.Kelly Molson: That's brilliant. I would absolutely go on a scratch and sniff tour of anywhere.Liam Findlay: Yeah, well it's a nice model because you can kind of apply it to any city or even, I don't know, an ancient school or a hospital or all sorts of places.Kelly Molson: And if you think, I guess there's just so many advantages to it as well for people that can't see the places that they're in but can still feel that emotive connection to them by being able to smell what those places smell like.Liam Findlay: Yeah, smell is very good in terms of accessibility because even if you're on a theme park ride and you're going along in a boat and maybe there are cannons going off, if you can't see the cannons or you can't hear the cannon sound effects, if you smell it, it kind of means that you're not missing out on the story.Kelly Molson: Yeah, it's brilliant. I hope they do more of those, I'd be up for that.Liam Findlay: Yeah.Kelly Molson: There's a quote that I read from you that said, "Smell is a form of mind control." It really resonated with me, especially because of some of the things that we've been talking about. But let's go back to what you started to talk about at the beginning of our interview was about the smells for care homes because you've worked on quite a few projects for those as well. And I think obviously this is not attraction related, but I just think this is such a wonderful thing to be able to use your skillset for. Tell us a little bit about what you've done.Liam Findlay: Well, care homes was one of the company's first kind of activities I suppose back in the seventies. I mean, back then it would be the smells of the 1920s that would be made to take people back into the past. And that's something interesting as well because the kind of residents who are always getting that bit older and the smells that will be familiar to them change gradually so we have to kind of think, okay, maybe World War smells, I saw on Twitter someone was complaining that their mother was being subjected to World War II songs, even though most care home residents probably weren't around back then anymore or at least a small number.So yeah, we've been producing nostalgic smells for care homes for a long time and it can be really nice if there's like carbolic soap for example is a popular one. If there's a smell that lots of people perhaps with dementia who will have personal memories with, it's a nice way of unlocking those memories, especially you tend not to lose your smell memory. So if you smell something from the past and even if you have memory problems, smelling that can kind of unlock something from years and years ago and bring back those memories and encourage conversation with the other residents that you might live with about their memories and then they'll kind of start talking about it and sniffing and it can be a nice way to lift spirits as well as bringing back memories.Kelly Molson: Yeah, it's wonderful, isn't it? I saw the clip, and again this was in the clip that we will add into the show notes, but it was about the soap smell and the lady said, "Oh, it just makes me feel comfortable." It took her to a happier place where she just had really good memories of it and it was just such a lovely clip to see, you could almost see her face kind of light up with the smell because it took her back there instantly. It was just brilliant. And just think that's such a lovely thing to do.Liam Findlay: Yeah, there's a company called Rempods, which they make a kind of sets for all care homes like a recreated nostalgic pub from the sixties or a train carriage, that's quite a popular one. So like a wall and there's a window that's a screen and you can see the countryside going past. And we work with them quite a lot to supply smells to kind of bring that whole experience together. So that kind of ties into the theme entertainment as well.Kelly Molson: Yeah, it's like a mini attraction in a care home with sense. That's incredible. I had no idea that that was even a possibility. What a brilliant thing to be able to do for people.Liam Findlay: Yeah. It could even be as simple as a memory box that. We have a customer who makes memory boxes for care homes, which are just kind of full of props and things that the residents might be familiar with and they include the smells as well. And that same customer, she is a funeral director and we have what are called aroma cubes, which are normally used by care homes and they're just little cubes you can pick up and sniff. And there was someone who was in her chapel of rest who had died and the person who had died had worked in a bakery so this funeral director had put the smell of bread in a little aroma cube just in the same room. And when her family, the person's family visited in the chapel, they could smell this and they just found it really kind of nice and it took them back to her bakery and it wasn't kind of gimmicky, the room wasn't full of bread smells, it was just a little thing that they could use to have a nice moment with. And it worked really well.Kelly Molson: That is so lovely. I was just thinking, because I lost my granddad a really, really long time ago, I think I was like 20 when I lost him. And if I could be in a room now and his smell would be Polos, he had Polos, pockets full of Polos everywhere, even when he passed away, all of his cardigans had Polo packets in them. And that would be the smell that would bring me back to him instantly. So I can completely imagine how comforted they were by smelling that. Oh, it sounds really lovely. Liam, I know that you're super busy at the moment because we are recording this at the beginning of October and Halloween is coming and everyone goes crazy at Halloween, right? So you've been busy since probably a good few months with people ordering in their smells. What's the most popular Halloween smell on order at the moment?Liam Findlay: I'd say the familiar one is the most popular because you want smells that are going to affect the largest range of people. So it will be things like vomit and poo and rotting flesh is actually popular. And I suppose not many people would be familiar with that.Kelly Molson: It's not a statement you hear very often, "Rotting flesh is very popular." It's not popular here.Liam Findlay: We've released a new blocked urine smell as well. Because we already had a urine smell, but I wanted to try something that had more of a kick to it. So we've got kind of two urine choices this year.Kelly Molson: Wow, wow. We've taken it to a whole new level of poo and wee smells on the podcast people. Liam, thank you for joining us today. I've thoroughly enjoyed talking about this and I think it's such a fascinating subject to talk about. So thanks for sharing your insight. We always ask our guests for a book that they'd like to recommend to us, something that they love or something that's helped them in some way. What would you like to share with us today?Liam Findlay: Mine is Theme Park Design and the Art of Themed Entertainment by David Younger. And this is like, I think-Kelly Molson: It's like a Bible, Liam. It's huge.Liam Findlay: Yeah. Well I was just going to say, lots of attraction designers kind of treat this as their Bible because it's like a big encyclopedia of everything to do with theme park design. So there's a bit about smells in it, there's a bit here about costumed characters, there's stuff on cues and how different cues work. So it's like anyone wants to go into theme park design or attraction design in general, even if it's like museums, this is a great resource.And actually David Younger, the author, I've just been working with him because he's started a Kickstarter for a video game that's based on a theme park sort of. And we've put together a scent collection of the different locations in the game so as people are playing, they can sniff the smells and kind of transport themselves into the world of the game.Kelly Molson: Oh, how cool. You must send over the link to us and then we can pop that in the show notes for any of the listeners that will be interested in it.Liam Findlay: Yeah.Kelly Molson: Okay. So look, as ever, I feel like this is going to be an expensive one for my marketing budget, because that looked like a really big book, Liam. But as ever, if you'd like to win a copy of this book, then if you pop over to our Twitter account and retweet the episode announcement with the words, "I want Liam's book," then you'll be in a chance of winning it. Liam, thank you for joining us on the podcast today. Good luck with Halloween, I know it's a really crazy busy time, but thank you for coming on and sharing all of your wonderful smells with us today.Liam Findlay: That's all right. Thank you for having me. It's been fun to talk about them.Kelly Molson: Thanks for listening to Skip The Queue. If you've enjoyed this podcast, please leave us a five star review. It really helps others find us. And remember to follow us on Twitter for your chance to win the books that have been mentioned. Skip the queue is brought to you by Rubber Cheese, a digital agency that builds remarkable systems and websites for attractions that helps them increase their visitor numbers. You can find show notes and transcriptions from this episode and more over on our website, rubbercheese.com/podcast.
Here in Episode 88 of the No Name Music Cast, it is Tim's turn to pick the topic and he chooses 90's pop hits!We talk about Destiny's Child, Stryper and Sheryl Crow to name but a few!We also discuss Facebook Messenger, Apple iMac Colours and travel money.We also go on a 'deep dive' around the delights of UK theme park Thorpe Park!Thanks for listening, and don't forget to 'Like' our page on Facebook:https://www.facebook.com/NoNameMusicCast/And Follow us on Twitter!https://twitter.com/NoNameMusicCast
This is Ur Welcome America Presents THE SATURDAYS 24/7 episode 3! Get ready for a trip to Thorpe Park, a Berocca in a bottle of Volvic, and Una on guitar. Watch the original episodes on YouTube & listen every week via the Ur Welcome America podcast feed. UR WELCOME!Get in touch with us;IG - @UrWelcomeAmericaTwitter - @urwelcomeUSAEmail - urwelcomeamericapodcast@gmail.com
Triforce! Episode 223! We're celebrating the Queen's lovely jubblies, thrillseeker Pyrion takes his entire family to Thorpe Park and Sips wants a state-of-the-art pegleg. We also dive into the overflowing Triforce mailbag! Go to http://manscaped.com and use code TRIFORCE to get 20% off with free shipping. Go to http://expressvpn.com/triforce today and get an extra 3 months free on a 1-year package! Support your favourite podcast on Patreon: https://bit.ly/2SMnzk6 Music courtesy of Epidemic Sound. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
From his breakthrough performance in 1981 at the age of 19 to his 2020-foot leap in the 90s, Sammy Duvall changed waterskiing - and its image - forever. Ranked No. 1 in the world from 1979 to 1994, Sammy Duvall remains one of the most notable names in water skiing. In this two-part interview, Sammy talks about coming up through the ranks, learning from and competing against his peers in the sport, and his 1987 World Water Ski Championship performance in Thorpe Park, England.
Jack and Geoff try to survive "The Walking Dead: The Ride" located in Thorpe Park in this episode of Annual Pass! Join the Discord! https://discord.gg/6MU6jQ6Chm
Jack and Geoff went to Thorpe Park- UK's most thrilling theme park! They walk through all the rides from immersive ""SWARM"" to the intimidating thrill coaster- ""Saw - The Ride"". Join the Discord! https://discord.gg/6MU6jQ6Chm Join the Discord! https://discord.gg/6MU6jQ6Chm
© 2020-2025 Ivy Podcast Discovery LLC
