Podcasts about roman baths

On this week's episode we explore the Roman Baths at Bath, UK! In our first segment, we delve into the history of the iconic Roman Baths, a marvel of engineering and a social hub in antiquity. Next, we share impressions from our recent site tour and museum visit and share our pro-tips and experiences at the site. Finally, we read some funny 1-star reviews of the Roman Baths. Tune in for a blend of history, personal anecdotes, and laughter about visitor experiences in this remarkable city!LinksThe Roman Baths websiteContactChris Websterchris@archaeologypodcastnetwork.comRachel Rodenrachel@unraveleddesigns.comRachelUnraveled (Instagram)ArchPodNetAPN Website: https://www.archpodnet.comAPN Discord: https://discord.com/invite/CWBhb2T2edAPN on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/archpodnetAPN on Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/archpodnetAPN on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/archpodnetAPN ShopAffiliatesMotion

On this week's episode we explore the Roman Baths at Bath, UK! In our first segment, we delve into the history of the iconic Roman Baths, a marvel of engineering and a social hub in antiquity. Next, we share impressions from our recent site tour and museum visit and share our pro-tips and experiences at the site. Finally, we read some funny 1-star reviews of the Roman Baths. Tune in for a blend of history, personal anecdotes, and laughter about visitor experiences in this remarkable city!LinksThe Roman Baths websiteContactChris Websterchris@archaeologypodcastnetwork.comRachel Rodenrachel@unraveleddesigns.comRachelUnraveled (Instagram)ArchPodNetAPN Website: https://www.archpodnet.comAPN Discord: https://discord.com/invite/CWBhb2T2edAPN on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/archpodnetAPN on Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/archpodnetAPN on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/archpodnetAPN ShopAffiliatesMotion

Adam's at The Roman Baths in Bath and we're spotting Goldcrest birds in our gardens and parks with Drew!Join Fun Kids Podcasts+: https://funkidslive.com/plusSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Join Carmen and Beverley and go behind-the-scenes of Unravel, one of the UK's most beloved yarn festivals. Fresh from the event, they share their festival highlights, yarn hauls and hilarious mishaps (including one-armed sweater shopping and emergency bra assistance!).Tune in to hear:✔️ Insider Access – What it's really like to vend at a major fibre festival✔️ Colour & Yarn Trends – What's hot in the knitting world right now✔️ Project Inspiration – Beverley's new sweater plans & Carmen's latest FO✔️ Must-Know Indie Brands – Who to watch (and where to find them!)✔️ Upcoming Events – From The Big Flock to an exclusive night at the Roman Baths (more below)Whether you love yarn festivals, crave knitting inspiration, or just enjoy a good laugh with fibre friends, this episode is packed with cosy, crafty goodness!Fizz & Fibre | You're Invited To This Exclusive EventJoin us for a magical after-hours gathering at the Roman Baths, where torchlight, history, and creativity come together. Sip fizz, mingle with fellow knitting enthusiasts - including the iconic Erika Knight who designed our Signature Collection - and hear from Jonny King of Garthenor Organic as he shares the incredible journey of building Wales' first worsted spinning mill. With exclusive access to this breathtaking setting, it's an evening of inspiration, storytelling and community you won't want to miss!Get your tickets here >>>#KnittingPodcast #YarnLover #UnravelFestival #KnittersOfInstagram #HandDyedYarn #FiberFestival #KnittingCommunity #CraftersUniteAsk us anything!Click here to submit a question for the podcast-----------------------------------Get In TouchSocial Media: Instagram | TikTokWebsite: www.ayarnstory.co.ukEmail: hello@ayarnstory.co.ukVisit us:A Yarn Story,128 Walcot Street,Bath,BA1 5BG+44 (0)1225 429239-----------------------------------Huddle Podcasting LtdThis episode was produced by Huddle Podcasting Ltd. Learn how you can harness the power of podcasts to grow your business at www.huddlepodcasting.com

This week we dive into England's West Country with travel writer Dan Stables. We discuss the region's mysterious cultural sites like Avebury and Stonehenge, the striking cities of Bath and Bristol and a packed calendar of events including Glastonbury and In Cider Festival. Tune in for the bitter feud between croppies and hoaxers, what the water at the Roman Baths tastes like and the history of Stargazy pie... Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This winter's night tale came as a request, and here is the 'vocals only' version! Winter Night in Bath brings us to the historic Roman Baths in this beloved English city, glowing with holiday lights, festive décor, and magical snow-dusted streets. Indulge in the soothing warmth of a healing spa, a regal tea room with its comforting brews, and the coziest bed by a crackling fire as snow flurries dance on the windows. Restoration and comfort await as you drift into a deep and peaceful sleep. It's time to dream away.Mentions: Nostalgia, Food, Water Original Script, Production, Music, and Narration by Michelle Hotaling, Dreamaway Visions LLC 2024 All Rights Reserved YOUTUBE: ⁠https://www.youtube.com/michellessanctuary/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ INSTAGRAM: ⁠https://instagram.com/michellessanctuary/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ FACEBOOK:⁠https://www.facebook.com/michellessanctuary/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ TIKTOK: ⁠http://www.tiktok.com/@michellessanctuary/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ TWITTER: ⁠http://twitter.com/michsanctuary/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Email Michelle: ⁠michellessanctuary@gmail.com⁠ If you would like to support this channel: ⁠https://www.buymeacoffee.com/michsanctuary⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠https://www.paypal.me/michellessanctuary⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠https://www.venmo.com/michellehotaling ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Check out my new podcast, Meditation Tides, for guided meditations and let the tides of your breath bring the tranquility you deserve. ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/meditationtides/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Michelle's Sanctuary is a place where you may enjoy high quality relaxing stories for sleep and guided sleep meditations completely FREE with a focus on mental vacations, sleep hypnosis, manifestations, and using your imagination to enjoy relaxing adventures before bedtime. Grown-ups deserve bedtime stories too! Having firsthand experience with anxiety, insomnia, and a strong desire to connect with my higher self and live my best life, I have tailored these recordings in ways that I have personally found helpful. This channel is not a replacement for consultations with a doctor or medical professional but can help you find more balance and a healing night's sleep. I always welcome comments, feedback & suggestions.

Our sponsor, FLESHLIGHT, can help you reach new heights with your self-pleasure. FLESHLIGHT is the #1 selling male sex toy in the world.Looking for your next pocket pal? Save 10% on your next fleshlight with Promo Code: EROTIC at fleshlight.com fleshlight.comfleshlight.comPlease support our show and get discounts on our favorite brands by using our sponsors' links here!EroticStoriesPodcast.comAdvertising/Collabs/Stories: sensualroleplayasmr@gmail.comIf you enjoy this podcast, remember to leave a review on your favourite listening platform.See you next week.Mia x

We discuss the wonderful gala performances shown at Euskalgym 2024 and also get quite emotional. You can check out the clips here if you want to check them out: Milena Baldassarri Gala Liliana and Laura Lewinska Gala Group Spain Gala Alba Bautista Gala Darja Varvolomeev Gala Margarita Kolosov Gala Boryana Kaleyn Gala Stiliana Nikolova Gala Darja Varfolomeev Ball new COP Teresa Gorospe Gala Or you can watch the whole Gala here: Full Euskalgym 2024 If you like our podcast make sure to follow us on Spotify, Apple Podcasts or Amazon Music so you never miss a new episode, give us a 5 star review and don't forget to follow us on instagram @discussing.rg.podcast as well. You can also contact us under discussing.rg.podcast@gmail.com.

The Great West Way is a marketing enterprise for the corridor from London to Bristol – taking in Stonehenge, Windsor Castle, Blenheim Palace, and the Roman Baths in Bath. Next year promises to be busy, with the 250th anniversary of the birth of Jane Austen. I heard more from Fiona Errington, head of marketing, and Florence Wallace, head of travel trade for the GWW.This podcast is free, like the Independent Travel newsletter. Get it delivered every Friday to your inbox. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

We send a cheerio to Kate McCarthy, and JB reflects on spending time in the Roman Baths in New York, before Billy launches into his All Sports Report. Dylan and Nectar battle it out for Luke Combs tickets on the Hump Day Quiz, then Michelle Payne calls in to preview the Spring Carnival - and she has an early Melbourne Cup roughie. All Sports Report part 2 sees Billy fascinated by the latest Daniel Ricciardo news, then we get into some of the trade and free agency news of the day. JB has received an email that requires us to dive back into the archives for a throwback Idiot File, then NRL legend Aaron Woods previews the Grand Final between Melbourne and Penrith - and he gives us an insight into the MMM NRL Call Team. Finally, Billy has a joke about knitting. Will it get Woolly?See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Skip the Queue is brought to you by Rubber Cheese, a digital agency that builds remarkable systems and websites for attractions that helps them increase their visitor numbers. Your hosts are Paul Marden and Oz Austwick.If you like what you hear, you can subscribe on iTunes, Spotify, and all the usual channels by searching Skip the Queue or visit our website rubbercheese.com/podcast.If you've enjoyed this podcast, please leave us a five star review, it really helps others find us. And remember to follow us on Twitter for your chance to win the books that have been mentioned in this podcast.Competition ends on 25th September 2024. The winner will be contacted via Twitter. Show references: https://www.monkey-forest.com/https://www.linkedin.com/in/joshua-torlop-261a10119/ Josh is a passionate marketer and PR professional currently working at Trentham Monkey Forest in Staffordshire. As the sole member of the Marketing & PR team, he manages, oversees, and delivers all communication strategies for one of the UK's most fascinating woodlands. This unique role requires him to wear many hats, as he strives to create best-in-class campaigns across multiple fronts.Trentham Monkey Forest is unlike any other place in the UK. It's a 60-acre woodland where 140 Barbary macaques live freely, mirroring their natural habitat. This distinct feature is the heart of the attraction, and Josh is driven to share this "sparkle" with as many people as possible, all while working within a modest budget. A visit to the forest, which Josh first experienced with his aunt in 2007 as a child, left a lasting impression on him. Now, he aims to ensure that visitors create similarly special and lasting memories at this remarkable destination, all for an affordable entry fee—an essential element of his marketing strategy.In 2024, Monkey Forest reached a record-breaking year for footfall, and as the year draws to a close, Josh has been collaborating with Oz on creating 'out of the box' campaigns that break the 'fourth wall' between the brand and the consumer. Reflecting on a PR stunt he strategized and executed in 2022, which went globally viral and reached hundreds of millions worldwide, Josh considers it a personal career highlight. His enthusiasm for being a one-man marketing team at such a unique destination continues to fuel his innovative and ambitious approach. Transcription:  Paul Marden: Welcome to Skip the Queue, a podcast for people working in and working with visitor attractions. I'm your host, Paul Marden. So welcome to Season 6. Oz Austwick: Yeah, welcome back. Paul Marden: How are we back already? Because it feels like only yesterday were recording the tail end of season five. So where's my summer break? It just seems to have gone. Oz Austwick: It does seem a little bit like we've not really had much time off. We must have. Must have had a bit of a break. Paul Marden: Yes, absolutely. Because I've got a list. As long as you are, of all the places that I've been over the summer holidays, where have you been? Oz Austwick: Like you? Lots of places. Lots of castles, a few stately homes and one or two more unusual places. But I think if I had to pick one, I went to Highclere. Oz Austwick: Okay. I love it. I'm a massive Downton Abbey fan. I tried so hard not to like Downton Abbey and just utterly failed and got sucked into this wonderful world of 1920s stately home. The lives going on upstairs and down. And you know what? It's just such a good series and to go and experience the place and see all these wonderful familiar areas with my 15 year old daughter, who is even more of a fan than me, was just amazing. Paul Marden: Brilliant. Oz Austwick: We might just have been blaring theme music out of the car on the way down the drive. How about you? Paul Marden: So where have I been? We went to We The Curious back in Bristol, which has just reopened after two years of being closed. And that was just amazing. I took my daughter there with two of her friends and we had a whale of time wandering around there. We've been to the Roman Baths down in Bath. That was quite fun. That was a very hot day, but we had a lovely time just wandering around in the baths. We really enjoyed that. The one standout thing that I did that does not come around very often, where it comes around once every four years. We went to the Olympics, so went and experienced handball of all games. Never watched a handball game in my life, but it was amazing. It was just so much fun. Oz Austwick: I don't think I know anything about handball. Paul Marden: Well, I was expecting something a bit like basketball or netball. No, not at all. No. This was full on contact sport. It's like rugby, but inside and throwing people around. It was awesome. It was so fast paced. We saw it was France v Germany, so it was absolutely stacked in the stadium. But they captured the spirit of London 2012. It felt just like the part, the atmosphere that we felt when went to the main stadium, the athletic stadium during 2012 but with a french twist. Oz Austwick: Not your first Olympics, then? Paul Marden: No, not my first. But I didn't see Usain Bolt this time. I did see him 2012. He was only about a spec on the other side of the stadium at the time, but no, we had a great time and there was just so much about the way that they organised it. It's a feat of human engineering, isn't it, to put that on for two weeks stint. But they organised it so well and yeah, it was thoroughly enjoyable. Oz Austwick: So, speaking of events, we're going to one pretty soon, aren't we? I mean, it's not quite on the scale of the Olympics, but it's going to be glorious all the same. Paul Marden: Yes. So this will be my third National Theme Park Awards. I promise this year not to scream quite so loudly if I actually go one of the roller coasters whilst we're there. Oz Austwick: Well, I'm going with you, so I will record it. Paul Marden: I promise you. I screamed like a marine last year. Oz Austwick: Yeah. So we'll be there. We're there officially as Rubber Cheese, aren't we? So, yes, if you're there, come over and say hi, we've got a stall, I think a stand and we might have some freebies. We'll definitely have some chocolates because it's a good excuse to have some chocolates. So come and find us and have some chocolates with us. Paul Marden: Yeah, absolutely. But, you know, it's an in real life experience, so come over and talk to us, give us your ideas. What can we do this season and what would you like us to talk about? Can we come to see ewing at your theme park? Oz Austwick: Yeah, because we're doing a bit of that this season, aren't we? We've got a few lined up. Paul Marden: We do. We do. It was something that you said last at the end of Season 5 that you wanted to do differently, that we work in this attraction sector which is all about going and doing experiences and we spend the whole of the podcast sat in a square room with nothing much going on and without actually meeting people in real life. And wouldn't it be wonderful if we could actually record in real life with people? Oz Austwick: It's crazy not to. We're talking to people at these amazing places and I just get to sit in my own dodgy little converted office. But not this time. No. So you met a chap a little while ago at a conference, didn't you? Paul Marden: Yeah, I met Josh from Trentham Monkey Forest, and he was presenting. I think if I'm right in saying this, it was the first time h. e's done a presentation at conference before, but I was blown away by him and his presentation, and he's a one man marketing machine for Trentham from his own slide. He tells this story about being the CMO and the social media executive and the website editor and all of these different hats that. That you have to wear when you're running marquee in a small business. That's Josh, and I just loved it. And I was really impressed with the way he was talking about the outcomes of what he had achieved as a result of the work that he was doing. It wasn't just about the activities that he was doing. Paul Marden: It was what difference that made to the organization as a result of him doing it, which I found really impressive. So I really wanted him on the podcast, and I jumped on a call with him and. And his first idea was, why don't you come and record it in the Monkey Forest? So here we are at the start of Season 6, and you've had a chance to go up there, haven't you? Oz Austwick: Yeah. I mean, it is a little ironic that my favorite podcast. Sorry, my second favourite podcast, because obviously this is my favourite. My second favourite podcast is the Infinite Monkey Cage. So to get to go and record in what is essentially a cage with monkeys in itheme seemed like way too good an opportunity to pass up on. It was an amazing day. I try not to say too much about it because we've got the whole interview to come. Paul Marden: Absolutely. But I'm assuming that everything went slickly and it was a well oiled machine and it's got the same production values as we would normally expect. Oz Austwick: No, not at all. I mean, I realised that there was potentially an issue when we. I got there and I found the place really easily. It was great. It was nicely signposted. I found the right place. The people in the car parks were hugely helpful. They sent me there. I parked up, a lovely lady took me to Josh. We got all the gear. We walked quite a long way into a forest full of monkeys, and then I realised I didn't have a camera with me. And of course, it's not an easy thing to go because we couldn't just leave all the gear with the monkeys and both walk back. But because I wasn't wearing official Trentham Monkey Forest clothing, they didn't want people to see me walking around in the woods off the path. So it became quite. Oz Austwick: So we figured it out, got the camera, got back, started setting everything up, and of course, because we're not sitting at desks I've got a lovely microphone that I wanted to put out in front of us, but you can't string a cable across a large open area where there are monkeys. Paul Marden: Health and safety issues with monkeys. Oz Austwick: Yeah, well, absolutely. The fact is, I mean, we could have done it, but the monkeys would have probably just taken the microphone away. So there is, if I'm being honest, a little bit of wind noise because the microphone's slightly further from us than I hoped it would be. I've got Josh miked up, so it's only me that you struggle to hear. But that being said, I mean, what an amazing experience if you haven't been to Trentham Monkey Forest, go. We've talked about this a little before, but there's this kind of period, 100, 120 years ago when all of the great historic homes, these are amazing estates, suddenly started having to find other ways of making money. And you can look around and some of them have survived and some of them haven't. Some of them have just gone completely. Oz Austwick: Some were turned into flats and one was turned into a monkey forest, which just feels a little bit random. But, yeah, I mean, Josh is a really smart guy, very switched on, very articulate and very knowledgeable, and he's got his own monkey army. So. Paul Marden: I've got nothing to say to that other than we desperately got to listen to the rest of this interview. It's going to be so interesting. Oz Austwick: Yeah, well, absolutely. But before we do, if you're listening and you have a thing going on and you'd like us to come and be part of it and record there, please do get in touch and let us know if you're doing something interesting in the visitor attraction sector. We'd love to talk to you. Or if there's just a pressing issue that you think isn't getting the exposure that it should be, then, yeah, let us know, because this isn't really about us, it's about the sector. And if we can help, then that would be amazing. Paul Marden: Yeah. So we've got lined up for this season. We're going to do some in real life at conferences. So we're going to go to ASDC conference and do some in real life interviews there. We've been invited to some attractions already. So, you know, if you've got a conference and you'd love us to come along and do something in real life for the podcast, let us know if you'd like us to come to your attraction because you're running an event for Halloween or Christmas or whatever it is then let us know. We will chuckle the gear in the back of a car. We promise we will better prepared if we meet monkeys again. Can't promise that we'll better prepared for other animals or small children or whatever, but, you know, we'll do our best. Oz Austwick: Yeah, I mean, I'd be hesitant and promising I'd be more prepared, to be honest with you, but, you know, we'll do our best and we'll come up. Oz Austwick: With something on at the end of it, I'm sure. Paul Marden: Yeah, exactly. So, without any further ado, shall we get on to listening to the interview that you did with. With Josh athlete at Trenton Monkey forest? Oz Austwick: So welcome, Josh. Thanks very much for joining us. Regular listeners will probably be aware of a bit of wind noise on this one because for the first time, we're recording on location in a monkey forest. Josh Torlop: Yeah, it's the first time for me to be honest, because I'm just looking across our forest here and we've got three or four monkeys surrounding us. Oz Austwick: Yeah, I must admit it's a little bit odd, if I'm being honest. I'm used to sitting in an office, at a desk, and today I'm leaning on a tree surrounded by monkeys. Josh Torlop: It's giving me a little bit of power here. I'm not the host and I'm making you feel uncomfortable with these monkeys around us, but no, yeah, we're perfectly fine. The monkeys have their natural weariness intact of humans, so they won't bother us too much. They will simply live their monkey life around us. Oz Austwick: If you're listening to this on Spotify or through iTunes or anything like that, then please check out the YouTube video and you'll be able to see some of the monkeys that are currently watching us. So, as always, we tend to start with a couple of icebreaker questions. And now we're in Season 6, that's not going to change anytime soon. So I've got a couple of kind off the wall questions for you. Josh Torlop: Oh, here we go. Oz Austwick: What's the biggest animal that you think you could carry up a flight of stairs? Josh Torlop: Oh, that's a good question. So, when I was younger, I had a Labrador called Tommy who had a bit of a gut. Oz Austwick: Okay. Josh Torlop: So I'd say I'd carry Tommy, and that might be a very boring answer, but he could eat anything. We had two labradors, one called Blake and one called Tommy. And Tommy used to finish his food and eat Blake's food, so I would say Tommy. Oz Austwick: Okay, cool. Yeah, I reckon. I think you could carry a labrador. The next one is what film should be remade by the Muppets. Josh Torlop: Oh, that's an interesting one, isn't it? Oz Austwick: Yeah. Josh Torlop: The Wolf of Wall Street. I'd love to see Kim the frog take on Wall street. How good would that be? Oz Austwick: That would be amazing. Josh Torlop: Yeah, that would be perfect. Because Margot Robbie's blonde. Miss Piggy was blonde. Not to say that Margot Robbie looks at all like Miss Piggy, but that's. Yeah, that'd work. Oz Austwick: I doubt she's a listener, if I can. So one of the things I really want to talk to you about, other than that this venue, which is quite unique, at least in the UK, is the challenges of being a one man marketing team. Oz Austwick: Let's start off. Just tell me a little bit about the monkey forest and how it became a thing. Josh Torlop: Yeah, certainly. So, Trentham Monkey Forest is one of four parks protecting Barbary macaques. That is a highly endangered species of primate. So there's less than 8000 in the wild. So we have two parks in France, one in Germany and one here in Staffordshire. Stokend Trentham Monkey Forest. And it started all the way back in 1969 in Kinzheim in the Alsace region. Listeners might remember Beauty and the Beast. That's where the town was famously sort of depicted. Oh, yeah, there we go. Yeah. Back to the Muppets. Well, yeah. But in terms of our journey, if you will, it was two french chaps, one called Jack Trinau and one called Gilbert de turquine, that basically sought this mission to protect this incredible species, monkey called Barbary macaques. Josh Torlop: So they wanted to create this fantastic concept where around 100 monkeys, 100 to 150, could simply be themselves in a forest completely, no interference from humans, in a way where it would be able to preserve the natural behaviours in order to facilitate possible reintroduction. Oz Austwick: Okay. Josh Torlop: So it was an incredible forward thinking concept. And you fast forward 40 years, they had to basically have to open two parks, another one in France in Rocamadour, and then another one in Germany in the sort of Lake Constance area, basically, because they sort of made the mistakes before us, basically. So they realised that once you have a lot of monkeys in a forest living how they would. They'd mate and they'd make. You'd end up with more monkeys. So they had to open more parks came this incredible conservation project for this one species, which makes us incredibly different, because their passion was engaging people with this primate in particular, by letting visitors to the area marvel at the incredible behaviours right in front of them from 2 meters away. Josh Torlop: But also, the monkeys having this, you know, this separation between human and primate, so their natural behaviours weren't deteriorated. So it was an incredible concept that here we are, 2005, we'll say we opened in Trentham, Stoke, and here we are, 2024, 19 years later, thriving, surviving, and I'm doing the marketing for it, which is incredible. Oz Austwick: Absolutely. So how do you end up as the marketing and pr manager of a monkey forest? Josh Torlop: So what you do is the year was, what, 2021? And I was looking for a role in marketing and I was scrolling through LinkedIn and Indeed, as you do when you're searching for a job. And I saw an advertisement for a marketing and PR officer at Trentham Monkey Forest. And it brought me back to when I was seven years old, my auntie and my mum coming to visit Monkey Forest for the first time and being absolutely amazed at the fact that there was a primate right in front of me, acting as if I wasn't there and it was just being a monkey, I thought it was magnificent. And that visit always stuck with me. And for me, as a visitor attraction, I always talk about, now I'm marketing at a visitor attraction. Is the sparkle what excites your visitors to come to you? Josh Torlop: And that is it. That moment of thinking, wow, that's incredible, there's a monkey right there acting exactly how it would in the wild. That's always stuck with me. And that inspired me to apply for that role because I wanted to share that sort of memory maker with thousands of people to visit the park and have that same experience. And thankfully, we're doing that quite well. We're hitting all the right noises on TikTok. Oz Austwick: Absolutely, yeah, you're doing a great job. Does it ever get normal? Because I have to say, it's really weird to be stood here in a perfectly normal british bit of woodland. And, yeah, there are monkeys. Josh Torlop: Well, if you look to your left, you'll see a statue of a man in the distance. So that man is the Duke of Sutherland. He once owned this land, a bit like lion king, you know, everywhere the light touches, I own. Basically, in the victorian times, he owned the Trentham estate. So everywhere we're looking now, that was Duke Sutherland's land. And people of that time actually enjoyed this forest for leisure. So not much has really changed because people still enjoy it. It's just there's monkeys here, which I love to imagine if we just brought him back for just a day and I would be like, what do you think of this use for your land, mister Duke, Sir Duke? Oz Austwick: I think it's fascinating. And one of the things that we see a lot, because we talk to and work with a lot of old historic estates and the kind of, I guess maybe 100 years ago or so, there was a real issue where they had to suddenly start doing something to survive. They couldn't just have the land and keep it, they had to actually make some use of it or lose it. And it's really interesting how some places in their safari parks or golf courses or hotels and spas, and there we have a load of monkeys. Josh Torlop: Yeah, I mean, 60 acres, about the equivalent of 40 football pitches. For any football fans listening, that's a lot of space. And the visitors see a very small proportion of that, which is nice in a way. I'd love for visitors to see all our forest, but for the monkeys, they have such a huge, vast amount of forest space to live exactly how they would in the wild, to a point. That's incredible. So we invited last year, for example, a David Attenborough producer called Rosie Thomas to do a members evening. We obviously have members, and she had literally just been filming in the Algeria, Morocco, a region where these monkeys are native to. Josh Torlop: And she was absolutely bowled over by the fact that it was bringing her back to filming with David Attenborough, which was crazy to think, but so rewarding, in a sense, for us, as an organisation, to think we're doing the right things. And, yeah, that was probably a moment where I thought, wow. Well, I always think, wow. But that, for me, sums up Monkey Forest. To see that a David Attenborough producer could be amazed, and the environment. Oz Austwick: So, yeah, so how do you market it? Josh Torlop: How do I market it? Oz Austwick: It's not like there's a playbook that already. Josh Torlop: That's probably the beauty of it. But is there a playbook for marketing? I mean, TikTok, I feel like if you ever see the Royal Society Protection of Birds, RSPB, they're amazing. They are so hilarious with TikTok. But for us, I think we stick to our unique. Oh, gosh, USP Unique Selling Point of, you walk amongst the monkeys. We have a little bit of fun with it, but also, we know our audience quite well, in a sense, that we know which channels suit certain content types. Pr. We do a lot of story pushing, storytelling features, like a huge part of our marketing activity. We tend to go viral quite often with user generated content. Josh Torlop: So we try and, you know, push that to make sure that visitors want to take a TikTok here, get excited about that, because it could go viral, it could blow up. Anyone can make content nowadays, so we tap into that. But, yeah, I think the key in everything is knowing your audience, knowing what we are and what we do best, which is the walking amongst the monkeys and the conservation behind it. And also being organic. I think I'm being authentic. I think some brands tend to forget that their audiences are human and they don't want to be sold to. They want to see organic content, digest it, consume it, otherwise they're going to swipe up or they're going to swipe across. Josh Torlop: So for us, it's all about having that tongue in cheek element, hitting all noises, having those serious conservation messaging, whether it's a blog or whatever, but marrying that up with some funny content. I mean, do you remember the Aurora, the Northern Lights? One silly thing I did on social media was I superimposed a monkey, transparent monkey in the sky here, and we said, "Oh, the Aurora looked a bit different and still contract", and that got a bit of traction. But, yeah, things like that, you know, showing a bit of personality. I mean, Ryanair do it, a lot of brands are starting to do it now. Curries. I find them hilarious when they chuck a chicken into a air fryer, like from a viral meme video. I don't know if you've seen, Oz, but that's hilarious. Yeah, that's brilliant. Oz Austwick: I mean, there are some companies that are really smashing social media. I'm a huge fan of Gregg's social media. And there's one of the big London department stores that does a world famous Christmas display in their windows every year. And there's a Gregg's opposite the road, opposite them, on the other side of the road. And they literally, they reversed their sign so that every time somebody took a picture of the Christmas display, it said Gregg's. Josh Torlop: Oh, brilliant. Oz Austwick: What a fantastic thing. Josh Torlop: You're making me hungry for a cheese and onion pasta. I love it. Gregg's. There is a drive through one in Stoke by Trent Bale. Oz Austwick: I might check that out. Josh Torlop: For me, I think TikTok in particular, I think every marketer's worked out that each post you do on TikTok you're following is the lowest percentage of who will see that. So it's always a new audience for every post that you do on TikTok. So for us coming in three years ago, we didn't have a TikTok, which I found incredible. We should have TikTok was my answer in my job interview, and that's probably what landed me the job because, you know, three years on we've got 12.7 thousand followers, which is quite a good growth. Josh Torlop: I'm always my biggest critic, so I'd want more, but I think every marketer or PR would say that. But in terms of the TikTok content that we put out is just making sure that we're doing it on a consistent basis, because we know that organic nature of the organic post, reaching a new audience each time, that's probably not going to be there forever. So it's sort of using that now to our advantage because, say, if we do ten posts a week and yeah, all those ten posts didn't get a million views, but if each one of those got a thousand views, that's 10,000 people that wouldn't have seen our content. And also that our unique element will be embedded in that content, or it'll be me in a monkey costume dancing to It's Raining Men. That wasn't me, by the way. Josh Torlop: I've just, I'm just like, that slipper wasn't me. Lots of fun. Oz Austwick: I'll see if I can get a link for that and pop it in the show notes. I mean, I think it's really interesting that social media kind of gives us this really odd view when it comes to numbers. And you say you've got what, say, twelve and a half thousand followers. Josh Torlop: Yeah, I think it's 12.7 now. 12.7 thousand. Oz Austwick: And those people who are really into social media will look at that and think, oh, that's not very many. Josh Torlop: No. Oz Austwick: But put them all in a room. Josh Torlop: Well, that's quite an awful lot for a small organisation. But also zero pounds spent. Oz Austwick: Absolutely. Oz Austwick: If you got twelve and a half thousand people through the gates, that wouldn't come through the gates otherwise, then that's a massive step. Josh Torlop: Yeah. Well, absolutely. I think for us, we have a quite high awareness campaign yearly campaign. We just want to drive awareness to us. Because I live and die by you put this in front of eyes. Feet are going to certainly follow because of how incredible it is. So that's what molds our strategy. But that's obviously one small element is social media. I mean, we did a PR stunt in 2022 that went globally viral. It reached 900 million people. So we're talking about 12.7 thousand not being the biggest, but that's huge. Yeah. James Corden was talking about little old Trent and monkey forest a few years ago. Because you'll love this, we hired a Marvin Gaye impersonator to serenade our monkeys, saying, "Let's get it on." Oz Austwick: I saw. Josh Torlop: Yeah. Oz Austwick: And that was a Valentine's Day thing. Josh Torlop: It was a Valentine's Day PR stunt, yeah. And it went absolutely viral. I dine out on it every week now at dinner, because I don't think I'm ever going to live that down. Oz Austwick: So, I mean, did it work? Do you have baby monkeys now? Josh Torlop: We had twelve that year, I believe. I think twelve. So. Oz Austwick: So, from a conservation point of view, getting Marvin Gaye involved was a good move. Josh Torlop: Well, that's it, yeah. We aim between six and seven babies, so if we have twelve that year, then it's work. Oz Austwick: I'm impressed. Josh Torlop: Yeah. Oz Austwick: So what are some of the challenges? Because obviously it's just you that does all of this and I've worked in house as a marketer and you've got to do everything, which inevitably means that you've just got to decide which bits you're going to do and which bits you're not. Oz Austwick: How's that work in the visitor attraction industry? Josh Torlop: For me, I hate the saying jack of all trades. I prefer swiss army knife because each part of a swift army knife is very useful and that's each part of the communication strategy f For me, every bit of it is vital for the success of your marketing and pr strategy. And one of the challenges is, obviously, managing time. Not to be boring, but it is. For example, this morning I've had a BBC radio stoke interview come straight speak to you. But, yeah, it's a case of making sure that you don't bite off more than you can chew, not having a skatcon approach, having quite a strategic straight line, knowing what you wanted to achieve. or me. Every bit of it is vital for the success of your marketing and pr strategy. So, yeah, that feeds into our strategy, really. Josh Torlop: It's not biting off more than we can chew, but also being as impactful as we can with the resource given. So I take all the photography that many people probably don't know, and Monkey Forest, we don't outsource photography, I take it. So I feel like, yes, it can be taxing having just one person to do all these roles, but then ensures consistency, because if it's wrong, it's the wrong consistency. But I like to think I'm doing quite well here. So in terms of what we're doing and what we're putting out, it's all consistent, we're brand cohesive because we haven't got a lot of chefs in the room giving off opinions, which can be good, can be useful, but still, I think that's why we get stuff done quite quickly. Josh Torlop: Say, if I want bit of content, I take my camera in and get the content, whatever it needs to be. But I do say, "Oh, yeah, it's a marketing team of one", but I have a great support network around me. For example, the director, Mark, best boss you'll ever work for. He is such a good guy and he trusts me to execute the pr and marketing strategy well. And then we've got Lisa, the part manager, who helps me a lot as well with radio interviews. They're all superb in front of the camera. Not a lot of people would say that, but media training wise, everyone is fantastic here in front of media, which is great. So everyone was willing to muck in. Josh Torlop: The Marvin Gaye PR event, for example, that was a roaring success because the guides were on board, they knew what, even though it sounded ridiculous. And all of our guides have science based, of course, being Barbary macaque experts. And they thought, what the earth is Josh playing at here? They saw the impact of raising the profile of the endangered species and they were really with me on that. But that was because we did a team brief. We explained the strategy behind it, what we wanted to achieve. The reason I actually said, the reason why I like to do this high awareness campaign is because I go into the pub with my mates to celebrate getting this job and I'm from a little town called Norfolk in Cheshire, which is probably on the sort of cross county border of Staffordshire. Josh Torlop: And I said, "Oh, I've got a job at transome monkey forest." And they went, "Oh, part of my transom gardens." " No", that's not the case. So we didn't have that profile in place. That was only the people that knew about us, by the way. So half the table didn't even know what Transponkey forest was, which I found baffling 20 minutes up the road. Oz Austwick: Absolutely. So, yeah, so, I mean, you get quite a lot of user generated content, your social media, obviously full of monkeys, but most people's isn't. So when they come, it's quite special being to put that out. But you mentioned earlier when were chatting about the fact that your most recent success has been TripAdvisor. Josh Torlop: Yeah, it's quite the timing, to be fair. So we've gone viral again this week because someone did a review on Tripadvisor and this sums up our marketing strategy to a team because obviously we try and be as lighthearted as possible and resonate with our audiences. So someone did a review about Monkey Forest and they were upset that we had monkeys. So, yeah, primarily it was monkeys. So we responded. I respond to every review because I find the feedback so useful, because we have the luxury that a lot of businesses who are listening or people are from organisations going to be jealous of this. We're closed over winter, so November to February. We have a strategic analysis of the business for me as well, marketing activity. I do all my strategy over winter, implement it spring and summer. Josh Torlop: So anyway, we love our feedback, we love receiving the feedback. And this week, it's the first time in nearly four years where I've been stumped for words. I didn't know what to say to this person because we have got monkeys. So our response went viral. We said something along the lines of, "Yes, we're a monkey forest. So primarily there are monkeys. Sorry, don't know how to answer this." Oz Austwick: It just leaves me wondering how they found you. Josh Torlop: Yeah, because if you. Oz Austwick: Our SEO must be formed pictures of monkey and the website site is covered in pictures of monkeys and it's called monkey forest. Josh Torlop: Can't please everyone. Right. I'm not sure, to be fair, I'd love for him to reach out because, yeah, it has gone viral. I feel bad for the chap who's done the review because he must be a bit upset with all the attention he's got from a review because he's a paying visitor at the end of the day and he probably had a great time, but. Oz Austwick: You'd hope so, but not if you don't like monkeys, I guess. Josh Torlop: Yeah. So. But, yeah, it was in the mail, the Daily Mail, the Daily Mirror, all the national news pretty much this week. So it kept me on my toes and busy. And that's when it's hard as a team of one, is to manage things that go viral. Oz Austwick: I guess at that point you're getting a lot of people trying to contact you and get comments from you for their articles. So what they're putting out is a little bit different. Josh Torlop: Well, no, to be fair, everything's been consistent so far, but it is a lot of marketing, and PR is controlling narratives and making sure that the content or whatever's being put out is in line with what you're trying to achieve. And obviously PR has that challenge and I like to think that PR is sort of my bag. So I love to do PR. It's something that I've always been interested in. I did a journalism degree at university, so I love the PR element of the job and storytelling. So from that, I'm sure fellow PRs that are listening will understand. When something goes viral, it's a little dreaded demon in the back of your mind where you're like, "Oh, God, it's gone viral." Oz Austwick: It's probably good. Josh Torlop: Probably good. But I've got a lot of answers to come up with. But, yeah, it's great for the business and we're a lovely bunch here. So if anyone does something great, people do tell you, and it's really nice, and it's such a wonderful place to work. Even the head guides, they have a bit of bands with me. I like to call them Anton Deck, the two head guides. So it's Aliya, the Venice, and it's daydream. 20 years. Well, 19 years, but yeah. So Aliyah gave me a lot of banter. Scene. What has he done now? He's made it busy for bank holiday. We're gonna be knackered. But, yeah, it's all good fun. It's all good banter. Oz Austwick: So what's next? Where do we go at Trentham Monkey Forest? What's the future look like? Josh Torlop: I want to do another Valentine's Day PR stunts. I want to do Netflix and chill, so I want to set up play screen for the monkeys. May play a bit of Titanic or love, actually. But, yeah, I just want to carry on going, getting as much awareness of the park as possible, hitting the right noises, bringing a load of visitors in who have a great time and do more things like this, because this is brilliant and I've really appreciated you coming in, having a chat. Oz Austwick: It's a joy. It feels a little bit like it's not work. I'm feeling very lucky today, so thank you very much for having me. Josh Torlop: Thank you. I think I've bored the monkeys because they've all gone. They've all legged it. Oz Austwick: I am wondering where they've gone. Before we wrap it up, we try and finish every episode with a book recommendation. Josh Torlop: Brilliant. I think I need to be on brand here, even though there are monkeys here and they're not apes, but I'm gonna recommend the Chimp Paradox. Can't remember who it's by, but it's a great book. It's all about controlling your inner chimp as a human and controlling your emotions and making sure you don't react emotionally too much to things. Because I like to think I wear my heart on my sleeve and it's good to make sure that you're keeping control of your emotions and making sure that you know, if anything happens, you're doing a great job, everything's going well in life. Chill out. And not being too hard on yourself. Oz Austwick: Amazing. Well, if you'd like a copy, head over to X and retweet us and say that you would like Josh's book. Josh Torlop: I didn't write it. Josh's book. Josh's book. Oz Austwick: We call it Josh's book. Yeah. Thanks so much. I really appreciate having you on board.  And for letting me come and hang out with your monkeys. Josh Torlop: There you go. Thanks very much. Appreciate you coming down. Paul Marden: Thanks for listening to Skip the Queue. If you've enjoyed this podcast, please leave us a five star review. It really helps others find us. And remember to follow us on Twitter for your chance to win the books that have been mentioned. Skip The Queue is brought to you by Rubber Cheese, a digital agency that builds remarkable systems and websites for attractions that helps them increase their visitor numbers. You can find show notes and transcriptions from this episode and more over on our website, rubbercheese.com/podcast. The 2024 Visitor Attraction Website Survey is now LIVE! Help the entire sector:Dive into groundbreaking benchmarks for the industryGain a better understanding of how to achieve the highest conversion ratesExplore the "why" behind visitor attraction site performanceLearn the impact of website optimisation and visitor engagement on conversion ratesUncover key steps to enhance user experience for greater conversionsFill in your data now (opens in new tab)

Skip the Queue is brought to you by Rubber Cheese, a digital agency that builds remarkable systems and websites for attractions that helps them increase their visitor numbers. Your hosts are Paul Marden and Oz Austwick.Fill in the Rubber Cheese 2024 Visitor Attraction Website Survey - the annual benchmark statistics for the attractions sector.If you like what you hear, you can subscribe on iTunes, Spotify, and all the usual channels by searching Skip the Queue or visit our website rubbercheese.com/podcast.If you've enjoyed this podcast, please leave us a five star review, it really helps others find us. And remember to follow us on Twitter for your chance to win the books that have been mentioned in this podcast.Competition ends on 21st August 2024. The winner will be contacted via Twitter. Show references: https://www.linkedin.com/in/stephenpriestnall/https://linktr.ee/oomphincStephen Priestnall founded oomph, now an accredited B Corp, in 2005, acquired Decision Juice in 2009 and is globally recognised as a specialist in CX driven transformation projects and digital innovation. He has advised at a senior level across public and private sector organisations in the UK, Americas, Asia and the Middle East and is an instigator of international research studies into behaviour change. He is a Board Trustee with Aneurin Leisure Trust, advising on CX and communications strategy and a founding Director at Wellbeing Economy Cymru, part of the global Wellbeing Economy Alliance, advocating for a new approach to economic sustainability for people and planet. Transcription:  Paul Marden: Welcome to Skip the Queue, a podcast for people working in and working with Mister attractions. I'm your host, Paul Marden. On today's episode, I speak to Stephen Priestnall, the CEO of oomph, a CX focused agency based in the UK and UAE who help clients to understand people and design better experiences. We're going to go back to first principles and understand what customer experience is all about and understand what attractions can do better to serve the needs of their customers. Paul Marden: Hello, Oz. Oz Austwick: Hi, Paul. So this is the last episode of Season 5, right? Paul Marden: Yes, that is right. Can you believe after we took the reigns from. From young Ms. Molson not too long ago, that we would actually make it to the end of the season? Oz Austwick: Do you know, it's crazy, isn't it? I mean, five seasons of a podcast. Most podcasts don't get through to the end of one season. And I can remember listening to this podcast years ago and actually sending people links as an example of what a good podcast is. And now here we are, you and I, at the end of Season 5. It's crazy.. Paul Marden: Yay. Guardians of this little baby. Oz Austwick: Yeah. Yeah, no pressure. So today's quite an interesting one, right? Paul Marden: Yeah. I've got a guest who has been a friend of mine for some time, Stephen Priestnall of Oomph agency. And we're going to talk a little bit about customer experience. So nice little chat between Stephen and I, and then you and I will come together in a little while and talk a little bit about. Let's reminisce about season five and talk a little bit about what might happen in Season 6. Oz Austwick: Awesome. Great. I'm looking forward to it. Paul Marden: Let's get on with it then. Welcome to podcast, Stephen. Stephen Priestnall: Nice to be here, Paul. Thanks for inviting me. Paul Marden: Good to have you on. Longtime listeners will know that we always start the podcast with some icebreaker questions, which hopefully not too challenging, but we get to know you a little bit better before we start talking about work. So both of my icebreakers are all about visiting attractions this time. So how organised are you in advance? If you go to an attraction, do you take a picnic with you, or are you always partaking of a cup of tea and a slice of cake in the coffee shop? Stephen Priestnall: I think it would have to be a particularly kind of informal attraction for me to have thought about taking a picnic beforehand. So normally it's just the anticipation of going to the place, and then I'll utilise the services in the place. Paul Marden: I love a good slice of cake in the coffee shop afterwards. Scone, cream, tea and scone that would be me. Stephen Priestnall: No way. Maybe a bit of our breath or fruitcake. It's probably more me. Paul Marden: Oh, lovely. I was at the Roman Baths yesterday with my little girl and we had a lovely wander around and they had a brilliant self guided tour. So if you've got a choice, do you go for a self guided tour? Do you wander around and follow your nose? Or would you rather have a guide take you around and tell you the stories? Stephen Priestnall: I almost never have a guide to take me around. And then sometimes I even find the self guided tours a little bit invasive. If I'm in a different country where there is kind of a language barrier, a filter, then I might use it then. But you know what? I kind of like that the ability just to bump from one bit to another. Paul Marden: Yeah. Stephen Priestnall: And experience the experience through my own kind of filter. So that's what I would normally do. I haven't been able to wander around with the headphones on, almost never with a guy. Paul Marden: Yeah, they had a lovely one at the Roman Baths yesterday. So it had both adult interpretation and kids interpretation, and I found myself switching to the kids one so that I was experiencing what Millie was experiencing, because I was saying to her, “Oh, did they tell you what that was?” “Oh, no, that wasn't in the kids version.” So I swapped the kids one and it brought it to life. It was really. It became much more shared experience for us. Stephen Priestnall: Yeah, well, that's like that's like the horrible history stuff. Yeah. But actually, it's brilliant. Rattles that was what they were on about in the tudor period, then. I didn't get it until now. Paul Marden: Yeah, look, listeners, Stephen and I have known each other for quite some time. We've been working together a lot on different projects, and his agency, Oomph, does a lot of work in customer experience. And so today's episode is going to be a little bit more about a primer on what do we mean by customer experience? And really, what I'd like to get to the bottom of today is what can attractioners do better to serve the needs of their customers. Yeah. So, really, Stephen, what I want to do is pick your brains. Let's introduce this whole subject of CX and customer experience and help people to better understand a little bit about what does that mean and how can they bring that into their day to day work in running attractions and meeting customers. Paul Marden: So, before we start that, why don't you tell us a little bit more about you and a little bit more about Oomph. So that listeners can better understand the context. Stephen Priestnall: Yeah, thanks, Paul. We've positioned ourselves around the concept of customer experience for about ten years now, and customer experience ten years ago was a bit of an oddball place to be. It kind of grew out of the user experience, the UX world, with a little bit of event management thrown into it and a little bit of actually, you need to think about people in the middle of all of this. And we come from a background of combining digital and data quite successfully to kind of help devise communications campaigns, kind of brand engagements, that kind of thing. And what we could see was if you brought all these things together as data was getting more sophisticated, with digital interactions on the rise, that you could get yourself much more informed about the way in which people's customers were actually behaving. Stephen Priestnall: And not so much what they were actually how they were behaving, but also what their needs were that drove the behaviours. And so we have, we've grounded our work and customer experience around a very clear desire to understand the needs of our clients' customers, and then to hold that mirror up for our clients and say, “Look, I know you have these products and services to sell and to engage with, but what we're going to do is a job of letting you know at the point of engagement they're hitting your customers needs in this way. And if you then flip the lens around from the customer need first rather than the product or service first, you might determine a different way of building that service or designing that interaction, or maybe even changing the way in which you invite customers into a journey with you.”Stephen Priestnall: So a lot of data and digital inside are our space port that inform CX. And then in the last couple of years, AI has been another transformative technology that we've started to utilise. And we know we treat it as good AI. We know there's bad AI out there, but the good AI is really helpful. Paul Marden: That's really interesting. We know from the Rubber Cheese Survey this year that most attractions have dabbled. They've played with ChatGPT, or something like that. But there's still a large portion of attractions that have done nothing with AI. And then there's a couple that I would consider at the leading edge. So they're doing things beyond GPT. They're looking at AI enabled CRM or AI enabled workforce management solutions.Paul Marden:  So there's some interest in here, but it's definitely, there's a conversation that we've had on the podcast just recently with Oz and I talking about the idea that we can't quite figure out if we're in a bubble because a lot of people that we talk to talk a lot of good game about AI, but when we're talking to the businesses, the clients, they're only just getting into this in the most shallow way. Agencies like yours and ours are kind of. We're leading the conversation on this, I think. Stephen Priestnall: Well, I think it's really interesting you frame it like that, because one of the things that has informed our approach to CX is the idea of understanding behaviour change, which is a science in itself. So if any listeners are familiar with behaviour change, you'll know how long the tail of kind of investigation evaluation that is. We launched a study in 2020 which ended up over three years and three waves, 10,000 respondents looking at the impact of Covid-19 on people's behaviour and their interaction with organisations. That is part of our research centre which we call tide of events, which is now about to launch another study which is going to be looking at the impact of AI. Paul Marden: Oh really? Stephen Priestnall: As employees, as citizens, as customers, as service users, as members, as supporters. I'm expecting some very interesting things to come out of that study as well. Paul Marden: Yeah, very interesting. So there's this idea of kind of CX thinking and embedding that, embedding it the heart of your agency, but you then helping your clients to embed it into the business. So how can CX thinking help an attraction to improve its offering? And I think if we can look at that in two directions, because obviously most visitor attractions are an in person experience, there's lots of thinking around their interaction and the experience that they feel when they're in the attraction itself. But there's a lot of us looking at either side of that interaction. How do we use marketing to get more people to want to do stuff? And then how do we make sure that they got the best experience after they did and reengage with us. How can CX thinking offline and online help an attraction? Stephen Priestnall: The principles of customer experience thinking, certainly from our perspective, is to deal with the reality of that there are people involved. And I think you and I both know, Paul, in the digital world it's kind of quite easy to forget as a person we spend a lot of time in front of technology, trying to get technology to do stuff that we think is helpful. And then it's easy to lose sight of the goal, which is to help a person achieve a task or do something which they have, they enjoy doing. I think in the world of attractions, destinations, then when you're in a kind of physical world, that you're sat in that environment designing something, and you're a physical person yourself. Stephen Priestnall: And as a designer, looking in that environment, feeling that, okay, well, if I walk from here to here, it's going to feel like that. If I put this in the wrong place, if my member of staff is trained in the wrong way and uses the wrong language, that's going to have a direct impact. So you kind of get brought back to the people side of it quite a lot when you're in it in person. So I would say that the world of CX thinking is about bringing the importance of the human into the overall experience. So you don't treat the digital experience with kind of it in a different frame set than you treat the in real life, in person experience. Stephen Priestnall: And that's quite hard to do, because sometimes you're trying to drive the digital experiences as a kind of conversion funnel to get people to do something and buy something or consume some content. And you can kind of get hung up on the word optimisation and funnel management, and you then get drawn into, how can we push people through to the next phase? And push people through to the next phase? And imagine if you're in an attraction, and yeah, you might make certain parts, physical areas, a place where you would want people to go to, but you wouldn't have somebody walking up and nudging them in the back, pushing them down the aisle and stopping them from turning around and staying in one place. Paul Marden: Yeah. Stephen Priestnall: And yet, that's often what happens in the digital world. It becomes an optimisation process to kind of channel a particular behavior that we think is optimal for the organisation. So the world of CX stands back from that, identifies the needs that were satisfying, and looks at Paul and Stephen as two individuals who are unique as individuals, and can be defined by a set of age, gender, sociological, economic characteristics. But actually, Paul and I might have five or six relevant needs for the attraction of which two are consistent. And, you know, two or three are completely different. So we can't treat Paul as Paul and Stephen as Stephen. We have to understand the relationship between the needs that we have as individuals and the thing that we're doing, or the point of the point on the journey we're on. Stephen Priestnall: And I think that's tricky to kind of link the digital and the in real life worlds together. But that's the trick I like to think the kind of CX approach would bring. Paul Marden: Yeah. Just as you're saying that it can be hard to think about the person. But also many of the attractions that we work with have very different offerings. And so consequently they have very different audiences that have very different needs. And, you know, are you trying to serve online an audience that's never going to attend? How do you serve those people's needs? If you've got an educational remit, how do you serve those people's needs whilst at the same time serving the needs of the people that you want to bring in and spend money on site with you? If you're a historic house that also has a golf course and it has a hotel and it has some sort of kids attraction associated with it, there's so many different audiences. Paul Marden: So that kind of CX thinking can help you to step back. Stephen Priestnall: Absolutely. And actually just maybe think of a great triangulation process between three different clients that we've been working with recently that show that kind of breadth of differences. So we work with the saudi arabian government on a new, one of their giga projects on a new destination out in the desert near Rhea called Duria. And that is an amazing set of destination components. Golf courses, equestrian centres, hotels, business centres. And that's creating a destination for a country which has never had any tourism in it before. So with a whole bunch of high net worth individuals that you've got to think about, then also a challenge to get people who live in Saudi to not spend the $90 billion a year that they do going to visit the rest of the world and to actually visit somewhere in Saudi. Stephen Priestnall: So we've had a set of kind of challenges around how do you drive a customer journey, a visitor journey for that. And we've been working with an organisation called Marketing Manchester, helping them devise a new segmentation so they can, I'm going to use the term, attract the right kind of visitors to go to Manchester to hook in with their sustainability strategy. They don't just want people in the shopping malls and going to the football, sports events or shows, albeit they would like that. They also want to understand the community engagement, the cultural engagement and the environmental footprint that they leave behind. And then we're just in conversations with North York Moore's National Park. And then there's a whole different set of conversations about engagement with the local community, communities, a little bit arms folded about tourists. How do you make that come together? Stephen Priestnall: And all of this is about people and it's about understanding people's relationship with people and things. Paul Marden: Brilliant. So let's have a little think about given that those are the ideas behind CX thinking. If you were starting out down this road, what are the simple things that people can do to start to bed the customer at the heart of their thinking as they're planning their services? And I'm thinking in terms of, we've got very different types of attractions in this country, very small, up to, you know, big international attractions. Let's pick the small guys. Yeah. Imagine you're running a small town museum and, you know, you've got a handful of people working in the team. How can you start to embed the customer into your thinking to improve the service? Stephen Priestnall: So I think, I don't think the principles change with scale. I think that the executional methods will change with scale, but the principles. And you can have, you know, if you've got a small team of three or four people, you can have these three or four people working together in a room. You can support a research or not, if you can afford the research that great. If you can't, then you use. So we use a term called foundational intelligence. So before we start any research with a client which might go and look at their customers or prospective customers or visitors.Stephen Priestnall: We say, “Right, let's go all of the information in your organisation on the surface, first, because there's however many people around the room's years of experience, which is not necessarily formed in a cx way, but if we get that on the table, we've probably got a 60, 70, 80% starting point for what we're going to need to know in the end. I think that's the first thing I would say, is take confidence in the fact you've got some foundational intelligence about customer experience. But there might be a clever way of bringing that out through a little workshop. So you ask the right questions of each other. And one of the ways which I think is useful to do and quite practical is to think about three different ways of looking at people as individuals. Stephen Priestnall: So think about themselves as a, you know, a standard attribute based, if you like, cohort or segments, you know, age, demography, all those things that we talked about, but then move those to one side and then ask a relatively straightforward question, what needs are being satisfied by your services? So it's kind of, what's the point of what you do? Yeah, well, harsh question. Paul Marden: Yeah. Stephen Priestnall: But it's devoid from, if you like, knowing your customers at that point, devoid from any transaction based evaluation or business case to say, what's the point of what we do? Why do people turn up and then be quite hard about answering those questions. And when you get the first answer in your head, which is based on what you've always thought you've always done, just go right. Is that really why people turn up? Paul Marden: Is that right? Stephen Priestnall: Really why people walk through the door? Is that really why people tell their friends about us? Paul Marden: There's a little bit of lean thinking there, isn't there? You've got five whys, haven't you? You could go, but why? But why? But why? Just to keep pushing yourself to think that hard thought. Stephen Priestnall: Exactly. Whatever, you know, whatever little mental games you want to play with it, that's the kind of point. What's the point? And then the next lens to look at it is the journey your visitors are on in order to not just get to your destination, but get out of your destination and be reflecting on it to their I, peers, friends, colleagues, family. And that journey doesn't mean I book a ticket, I turn up, I walk around the attraction and then I go home. It means what are the component parts of that journey when they're in planning more just you asked me earlier on about whether I plan a picnic. What are they planning? How likely are they to plan? Do they not want to plan? Do they just want to turn up? Stephen Priestnall: You know, when they're getting to, when they're coming, when they're traveling to the destination, how are they traveling? What's their preferred method of travel? And then what are the different ways in which people engage with the attraction itself? And then what happens afterwards when they walk out? Do they walk out and go for a beer? Forget about it. Did they do that thing you do in a golf club where you spend the next 3 hours talking about what you did for the last 3 hours? And what's the version of that could be done in social media afterwards? And again, do that. Do that without necessarily worrying too much about who does what. So you end up these kind of journey components. Stephen Priestnall: Now all these things can be really heavily researched if you've got resources and the time to do that, but you can do it in a room with three or four people in 2 or 3 hours. And what you'll end up with is a set of right. The people who visit us look a bit like this. Typically, here's five or six types of people, here's a pool type, here's a Steven type, here's a whoever else type of. We've got ten or eleven needs. Well, who knew we had ten or eleven needs? That were satisfying. Paul Marden: Yeah. Stephen Priestnall: So you write those down. Oh, look, we got a journey which looks like planning, engagement, reflection. And I use those three terms because we use them all the time because they're nice and easy to get your head around. Planning, engagement, reflection, and within engagement here are all the different bits that are happening in engagement here. At the different bits that, all right, we might have a dozen, maybe even two dozen components underneath those kind of three big things. And you've then got a bit of a jigsaw. And it's also objective at that point as well. You've then got this objective jigsaw to say, which of those five or six groups of people have which of those needs do we think you might end up with that funny place where. Stephen Priestnall: Oh, actually that cohort doesn't have any of those needs, so we think they really like coming to us, but we're not doing anything to satisfy their needs or this other group that we don't get many of. Look how many needs we're satisfying in that group. Maybe we should be targeting that group. Paul Marden: Yeah. Stephen Priestnall: So whether you're. Whether you go outwards and change your segmentation, your targeting, or whether you come in with and change your service design, you've already got some things to think about. And then when you map the journey on top of that, and again, you know, nice. It could be a done on paper, it could be done. There's loads of tools online you can do this without getting too scientific. You've then got the points at which, all right, so if that need is being satisfied for those people at that point, we now have a design intervention to work out. So we now have, essentially, we have a brief, we have a specification now that might be a piece of digital interaction, it might be a piece of communications design, it might be a piece of signage in the attraction, it might be a follow up social media nudge. Stephen Priestnall: You're then not inventing what you think it is that you need to do for your attraction. We use a phrase which I think clients are pretty comfortable with in the end because it. It's a real reflection. It's completely normal for organisations to kind of end up with an inside and view of the world. Everything is all about the product and the service because that's where the investment goes, that's where the thinking goes. And what we try and do is just to persuade people to take an outside in view. So actually look at this from the point of view of the customer. And I think what the exercise I've just described does is help you take that outside in view. Paul Marden: I'm smiling for those listening. I'm smiling because I just, it reminds me of so many times where I can, you know, I can see observing in the projects that we do or just, you know, interacting with the outside world, where you can tell that people often take a very parochial internal view and they'll communicate with the outside world in their own internal language. They will try and, you know, influence people to do things rather than thinking, how does this appear outside? Stephen Priestnall: Yeah, and it's, it, but it's also, it's not a critique. It's normalised behaviour. If you just think about how organisations grow, you end up with an idea, you know, where often it is about the customers. You've got this entrepreneurial, innovative spark that kicks the idea off, satisfying the needs. And then you build up a bunch of teams who, by definition, have broken out into departments with different roles and responsibilities. And then, and then the sense of self of the people in those teams is derived from the departmental responsibility. Paul Marden: Yes. Stephen Priestnall: But as a consequence, you then are trained, naturally trained to be inside out. Paul Marden: Yeah. Stephen Priestnall: And so, it's normal. And then when that, then when the salesperson comes back and says, “Why did you build it like that?” You know, the designer, the product person says, “Well, because that's the best way of doing this thing.” And the salesperson says, “I can't sell that.” And that actually, and I don't know how much. In your podcast, Paul, you talked about agile, but this is when the concept of squads really can work. I think that you have to take real care with squads because they can end up creating rooms of people who don't understand each other. I think unless there's one other thing I would say about the human part of CX, you have to take this into the culture of the organisation as well. So you asked me earlier, how do you present a CX focus for an organisation? Stephen Priestnall: Well, you can't just drop the results of that little workshop on top of everybody, because it's the going through the process of looking at those three lenses that puts you in a different mindset. If you then just end up telling the product people or telling the sales people or telling the ops people, can you do it like this now? They'll just add that onto their list of things to do. It won't be a change. Paul Marden: But when you bring those people into the conversation, I think it brings a different perspective, doesn't it? And I think that's the one thing I've learned from you in the few years that we've known one another is that when you boil it down, everything is a CX project. And I don't think I ever really thought about that. That there can be something which to me seems so navel gazing, internally focused as a technical project to deliver in the business. But actually, when you think, when you apply the rigor of thinking about the client, the customer, then you find that it is a CX driven project, even if it is completely internally facing. It can be about the communication between two teams, but in the end, because they don't have good communication, it's resulting in this poor customer experience over here. Paul Marden: So when you think about it hard, then these projects have a CX focus, even when they are very kind of internally facing.Stephen Priestnall: And it's sometimes difficult. I mean, I think that's a really good articulation of it. It sometimes can be a challenge to make that process seem worthwhile, because what you end up doing is spending more time challenging what you think is right at the beginning of the process. And there's always a desire from somewhere to move things on. I think that there's a little value based model that I always apply in my head, which if we treat this kind of CX phase as the planning phase, and then you go through a design phase, then you go through a build phase. For every extra hour you spend in planning, without spending that, you would spend ten more hours in design and a hundred more hours in production. So if you leave that hour aside, you're going to have a tenfold in design phase. Stephen Priestnall: And if you don't deal with it in design phase, you'll have it 100 fold, then build phase. But choosing to do that extra hour, which is tension filled, it might be a bit of conflict, there might be a bit of defensiveness. It needs to be carefully managed and kind of cajoled, but the value of it is meant. Paul Marden: Yeah. So you've described this kind of approach to take, identifying who the customers are, trying to use a little bit of intuition to be all science if you've got the budget to go and do the research, but to understand those customers in more detail and what their needs are, and then driving down and finding out where, you know, the journey maps onto that and where the gaps are and starting to look to fill those gaps. Is there room in the world for a dirty bottom up approach where you can see a problem already and you want to address that problem? Can you attack this from both angles or do you need to start from a top down approach? Stephen Priestnall: I'm an arch pragmatist and if we know there's a problem to solve and it's screaming for a solution, then that's going to solve the problem. I would only cancel that try and stand back and look at the unintended consequences through a very objective lens. You don't need to spend long doing that. But I think the magnetism of solving a problem that's been a longstanding problem can also act as a set of blinkers. So that's the only thing I would say. Paul Marden: Yeah, you can be distracted by the screaming problem that turns out not to be the real root cause. If you take the bigger picture of you. Stephen Priestnall: If we got this horrendous problem just before checkout, whether that's a digital or at the attraction itself and queuing up going on, you know, there's a need to solve that through a piece of technology or extra stuff on the tills. But actually, it turns out that there's a funneling process going on in the start of the process that's causing everybody to end up at the checker at the same time. And that can be solved by a different distribution of products in the attraction itself, or bringing in some different content to inform people in the digital journey. That means they don't have to do task X and Y because they now know about it. You know, we've all had that before, which it looks like people can't get through this bit of the funnel. Let's try and make this bit of the funnel easier. Stephen Priestnall: Let's try and do more things. More buttons, more. Let's just try and make it easier. But actually, it turns out, if only we'd given that visitor to the digital journey more time to consume content and not push them through the first stage of the transaction process so quickly, they would have entered the second stage much better informed and relaxed about completing the overall thing. Paul Marden: It's just such a challenge, isn't it? Because I can just feel me even now with our fictitious scenario, all I want to do is squeeze them down the funnel. But you have to focus at the end about getting the right outcome, don't you? Stephen Priestnall:  There's another great metaphor I like to use, and we do this all the time because we talk about something called sustainable customer experience. And sustainable customer experience strategy isn't about a green CX strategy. It's about saying, if you get your CX strategy right, you will have to spend less money on acquiring new customers, so it's more economically sustainable and there's a really interesting kind of just different way of looking at it. So normally if you look at the typical retail conversion process, if you get 100 people on the top of a digital funnel, you might get five out the end as a conversion there's usually really simple numbers, five. So everybody works on how do we make five six? That's the big thing because that's like 20% improvement. If you get five to six, we've just put 20% on the bottom line. Stephen Priestnall: Meanwhile there's 95 people. Do you care? Are you interested? I came here for a reason and you don't like me anymore, so. Well, goodbye then. So what we do is we say, right, we want to put as much effort into understanding the 94. It's not wasted effort. I'm a pragmatist, as we do making the five six, because if out of that 94 we can get another 20 over the next twelve months to do the same thing. We've not spent any money on customer acquisition. We've built and engaged in a relationship. We've had opportunities to talk and engage them, which probably means they're going and talking to other people and checking about the experience. So they're probably doing some recruitment for us anyway, which we can also nudge behaviour. Stephen Priestnall: And then what that does, it changes the mentality inside the organisation to not just think about, we've got six out the other end. Yes. Celebrate. And actually think about. Because imagine if you did that physically. Imagine if physically you could see the hundred people in a queue and everybody went off celebrating the 6th that went through. And then you look back and you looked at these 94 people just milling around having a chat with each other and what just happened. Paul Marden: Yeah, that would feel pretty uncomfortable, wouldn't it? Stephen Priestnall: It will. Especially for an attraction. Paul Marden: Yeah, for sure. Look, this has been brilliant. It's nice. I think sometimes to take a step back and look at that kind of the 101 class, the intro to the subject. And I think this is a subject that we will come back to again and again. We've talked about taking it back to its first principles a little bit today, but this is embedded within the attraction sector. They know and understand the people that come through the door. This is something that they take really seriously, obviously. But I think there are ways in which we can take what we've learned today and use that as a springboard into some more deeper conversations. Paul Marden: Maybe in Season 6, which is coming up where we can talk a little bit more about, you know, your conversations about AI, the direction that you take these things in. How does AI help you in a world where you want to be cx centric? What does AI do for you? So thank you ever so much. This has been brilliant. Thank you. Stephen Priestnall: Really enjoyed it. Paul Marden: One last ask of you, though. We always ask our interviewees to come up with a book recommendation. And it can be fiction, it can be factual, it can be about the subject. But we will give this book away to the first person that retweets the show advert and says, I want Stephen's book. So what is the book that you'd like to share with the world? Stephen Priestnall: Well, so I'd love to say it was. It was a book I wrote in 1986 on expert systems in context. I was doing AI back in the 80's. That one is out of print. You definitely will get hold of it. Instead, it's a book that I think challenges, whatever your persuasions about understanding of the environment and climate, challenges your way of thinking about. It's a book by an activist called George Monbiot, and it's called Feral. And it's to do with the rewilding of Britain, the potential for rewilding Britain. And again, whether you're minded to think that's a good thing or not, it's a great book to just think, okay, that's my perceptions challenge. I hadn't thought of things like that. Paul Marden: Excellent. So, listeners, if you'd like to get a copy of Stephen's book, then head over to X, find the show tweet that we put out and say, I want Stephen's book. And the first person to do that will get a copy. Stephen, this has been wonderful. Thank you all so much. And hopefully we will talk more about this in Season 6. Stephen Priestnall: Thank you very much, Paul. Oz Austwick: He's a really interesting guy, isn't he? Paul Marden: He is indeed. I said to Stephen afterwards, it was such a nice conversation because we've been working together for years, and today I got to ask the questions I've been too embarrassed to ask for the last few years because I really should, at this point, know the answers to them. But today I was able to take the place of the listener and ask those questions without fear of embarrassment. Oz Austwick: Yeah, there does come a point where you kind of feel that you probably shouldn't be asking this question anymore. You should already know this. Yeah, I love that. I thought, it's really interesting. I love this concept of nudging that he talked about, and it's something I've been aware of online for years, but the kind of putting it in the context of happening in the real world, I thought was really interesting. It gives you a bit of insight into how weird it is that we try and force people into certain pathways online. When you'd never dream of doing that in the real world, just having somebody outside a room just pushing you into it. Yeah, you wouldn't do that. Paul Marden: You're in a queue for the log flume and you get poked in the back to say, “Do you want to buy your photo? Do you want to buy your photo? You really do want to buy the photo, don't you?”Oz Austwick: Well, I mean, that does kind of happen, doesn't it? It's usually my children that are doing it, if I'm being honest. But, yeah, really interesting stuff. Paul Marden: A nice way to round out some amazing interviews and fireside chats that we've had over Season 5 and look forward to Season 6. Oz Austwick: Yeah, I'm really excited about Season 6. Paul Marden: Yeah, we want to do something a little bit different, don't we? Oz Austwick: Yeah, well, I mean, firstly, I'll get to start the season of the podcast. Because I wasn't here at the start of Season 5. I've kind of just weaseled my way in halfway through the season and gone, “Yes, mine now.” Paul Marden: Tell listeners, what is it that we want to do differently? Oz Austwick: Well, it feels a bit weird to me that we're creating a podcast all about the visitor attraction sector, which is designed to get people out of their houses to a place and actually experience it in the real world. And yet you're sitting in exactly the same room, and I'm sitting in exactly the same room. And as we pointed out not long ago, I'm wearing the same t shirt as I seem. This appears to be my podcast t shirt. And yet, you know, we're not getting out. So we're gonna get out. We're gonna get in a car and go to a place and record a podcast in an attraction with a person. And I think that's amazing. Paul Marden: Yeah, I just can't wait. We've got a couple lined up. One's crazy, one's going to be a big event. It could be really fun, but we love listeners with attractions who would like two blokes and some cameras to turn up to invite us along. We would love to come and visit your venue. We would love to talk about whatever subject it is that you think our listeners would like to discuss, and we'll come along and we'll record it in real life at your place and see how amazing your venue is and talk more about the stuff that everybody's interested in. Oz Austwick: Absolutely. But it's not just that we're going to do a little bit differently, is it? We're kind of focusing a little bit more on different groups. Paul Marden: Yeah. There was some lovely feedback for those, for listeners that listened to Kelly's final episode, her swan song. When Ross from Drayton Manor came on and talked about his experience of being on the podcast and how influential it was for him to have his 15 minutes of fame for Skip the Queue, and how important that was to him in his stage, in his career, that prompted us to think about, can we use this platform now that so many people before us built to help to shine a light on new and emerging talent in the sector? So if you are in early stages of your career and you are doing something interesting in the attraction space, could be digital, it could be something customer focused in real life. Paul Marden: There's so many different ways where we could have an interesting conversation about what it is that you do and why other people would find it interesting. You know, invite us in. We would love to have that conversation with people. If you know someone, if there's someone in your team who, you know, you can see is doing amazing things and could grow in their career with the spotlight shone on them, and there's lots of people like that, then point them in our direction. Point us in their direction. We can definitely do something to help them to share their story and hopefully to benefit from that springboard, that stepping outside and talking to the outside world about what you do can really have on a career. Oz Austwick: Yeah, absolutely. I think it's lovely that hopefully now, after five seasons, the podcasts kind of mature enough that we don't need to lean on those famous, influential people in the industry quite as much. And hopefully that maybe we've got enough loyal listeners and enough of us standing as a podcast that we can tell stories just because they're interesting. Yeah, you already know the name of the person we're talking to, so, yeah, that's going to be really exciting. Paul Marden: But, you know, there are stories to be told that we don't know about yet that I'm sure will be going on inside listeners minds and, you know, hit us up, send us an email, send us a tweet, an X. I don't know what. I don't know. That's another story, isn't it? But send us a message by carrier Pigeon, if you can, that tells us what you think we should be talking about, the people we should be meeting and the stories that should be told. We would love to hear from you. Oz Austwick: Yeah, and in the meantime, enjoy your two or three weeks without Skip the Queue. Paul Marden: Yeah, absolutely. Hopefully you're all busy working in your attractions, being absolutely swamped. If the attractions I've been to are anything to go by, it is a rip roaring success of a summer. We've had some pretty good weather and yeah, we'll be looking back at this September October time thinking what an amazing summer it was after a disappointing start to the year. Oz Austwick: So yeah, well, fingers crossed. Absolutely. Paul Marden: Thank you, Oz. It's been delightful. I've enjoyed every minute of it. Oz Austwick: Yeah, me too. Here's to Season 6. Paul Marden: Yeah, see you on the other side. Paul Marden: Thanks for listening to Skip the Queue. If you've enjoyed this podcast, please leave us a five star review. It really helps others find us. And remember to follow us on Twitter for your chance to win the books that have been mentioned. Skip The Queue is brought to you by Rubber Cheese, a digital agency that builds remarkable systems and websites for attractions that helps them increase their visitor numbers. You can find show notes and transcriptions from this episode and more over on our website, SkiptheQueue.fm. The 2024 Visitor Attraction Website Survey is now LIVE! 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In episode 108 of the UK Travel Planning Podcast, Tracy Collins sits down with Lauren, who recently travelled from Australia to Europe with her family. Two weeks of their trip were spent exploring England. They delve into the intricacies of planning a multi-generational trip, the ease of using the UK's transport system, and the joys of exploring London, Bath, and Oxford. Lauren shares invaluable tips for booking popular attractions like Harry Potter Studios and Big Ben and highlights delightful experiences at local markets and the Roman Baths. Tune in for a treasure trove of insights and practical advice to make your next UK trip unforgettable!⭐️ Guest - Lauren Minns

Fluent Fiction - Serbian: The Sandwich Splash: Unveiling Laughter in Ancient Roman Baths Find the full episode transcript, vocabulary words, and more:fluentfiction.org/the-sandwich-splash-unveiling-laughter-in-ancient-roman-baths Story Transcript:Sr: Врело летње поподне у бањи, Радован се одлучио да проведе у древним римским бањама.En: On a hot summer afternoon at the spa, Radovan decided to spend time in the ancient Roman baths.Sr: Бање су биле смештене у скривеном кутку Србије, окружене добро очуваним каменим рушевинама и термалним водама које су стварале мирну оазу усред летње врућине.En: The baths were located in a hidden corner of Serbia, surrounded by well-preserved stone ruins and thermal waters that created a peaceful oasis in the middle of the summer heat.Sr: Радован је истовремено био узбуђен и нервозан.En: Radovan was both excited and nervous.Sr: Овај историјски ентузијаст је дуго сањао о овом тренутку.En: This history enthusiast had long dreamed of this moment.Sr: Са својим вољеним сендвичем у руци, намеравао је да се опусти и ужива у лепоти околине док се купа.En: With his beloved sandwich in hand, he intended to relax and enjoy the beauty of the surroundings while bathing.Sr: Сео је крај базена, ставио сендвич на пешкир, и ушао у топлу воду.En: He sat by the pool, placed the sandwich on a towel, and stepped into the warm water.Sr: Тренутак опуштања је прекинут када је чуо чудан звук.En: His moment of relaxation was interrupted when he heard a strange sound.Sr: Окренуо се и видео како његов сендвич полако клизи са пешкира и пада у базен.En: He turned and saw his sandwich slowly sliding off the towel and into the pool.Sr: "Не!" - узвикну Радован, али било је касно.En: “No!” shouted Radovan, but it was too late.Sr: Сендвич је пао у воду и одмах створио хаос међу купачима.En: The sandwich fell into the water and immediately caused chaos among the bathers.Sr: Људи су почели да се буне и вичу, а вода је постала замућена.En: People began to complain and shout, and the water became murky.Sr: Радован је био очајан.En: Radovan was desperate.Sr: Морао је да одлучи да ли да призна своју грешку или да се прави као да не зна ништа о сендвичу.En: He had to decide whether to admit his mistake or pretend he knew nothing about the sandwich.Sr: Приборио се и одлучио да покуша да извуче сендвич.En: He gathered himself and decided to try to retrieve the sandwich.Sr: Полако, покушао је да се приближи сендвичу, али сваки пут када би покушао да га дохвати, вода би га испрскала.En: Slowly, he tried to get closer to the sandwich, but every time he reached for it, the water splashed it away.Sr: Његови покушаји су привукли пажњу свих, и пре него што је и схватио, сви су се смејали његовим несретним покушајима.En: His attempts attracted everyone's attention, and before he knew it, everyone was laughing at his unlucky efforts.Sr: На крају је успео да дохвати сендвич, али не пре него што је пао у воду.En: In the end, he managed to grab the sandwich, but not before falling into the water himself.Sr: Ово је изазвало још већу дозу смеха међу осталим купачима.En: This caused even more laughter among the other bathers.Sr: Видевши да су сви расположени, Радован је престао да се нервира и придружио се смеху.En: Seeing that everyone was in good spirits, Radovan stopped worrying and joined in the laughter.Sr: Људи су почели да деле своје грицкалице и настао је импровизовани пикник поред базена.En: People began to share their snacks, and an impromptu picnic emerged by the pool.Sr: Радован је схватио да не треба све схватати превише озбиљно и да је сврха оваквих места да уживамо и стварамо лепе успомене.En: Radovan realized that not everything should be taken too seriously and that the purpose of such places is to enjoy and create beautiful memories.Sr: На крају дана, Радован је изашао из бање насмејан и срећан.En: By the end of the day, Radovan left the baths smiling and happy.Sr: Никада није мислио да ће један сендвич донети толико смеха и нових пријатељстава.En: He never thought that a single sandwich could bring so much laughter and new friendships.Sr: Бање су за њега постале место не само за опуштање већ и за уживање у заједници и смеху.En: The baths had become a place for him not only to relax but also to enjoy community and laughter. Vocabulary Words:spa: бањаancient: древнимbaths: бањамаhidden: скривеномcorner: куткуwell-preserved: добро очуванимruins: рушеивинамаthermal: термалнимwaters: водамаoasis: оазуexited: узбуђенnervous: нервозанenthusiast: ентузијастtreasured: вољенимsurroundings: околинуinterrupted: прекинутstrange: чуданsound: звукsliding: клизиchaos: хаосbathers: купачимаcomplain: битиmurky: замућенаdesperate: очајанattention: пажњуunlucky: несретнимspirits: расположениlaughter: смехsnacks: грицкалицеimpromptu: импровизовани

Bath é aquele clássico passeio que os turistas fazem para dar uma esticadinha de Londres ou arredores. Nós fizemos a mesma coisa, na nossa visita a Glastonbury. Como chegar          Bath está localizada no Sudoeste da Inglaterra, leva aproximadamente 90 minutos da estação de Paddington e Waterloo em Londres, via trem. A estação de trem em Bath está localizada no centro da cidade, bem pertinho das lojas e principais atrações.     Do Aeroporto de Bristol, você leva menos de uma hora. Bristol Temple Meads fica a menos de 15 minutos de trem. Nosso roteiro        Pegamos um ônibus até Wells, a linha 376, descemos na cidadezinha e de lá, na pequena estação rodoviária, fizemos o translado para Bath (o 173). Comente com o motorista que é um passeio de dia inteiro, ida e volta e compre o bilhete família. Custou £ 14,00 para nós.        O percurso é pequeno, cerca de 2 horas, entre translado e tudo, mas a viagem é bonitinha, uma paisagem verdejante, casinhas com jardins bem cuidados e estradas bem sinuosas onde às vezes passa um ônibus de cada vez.     Desembarcamos na estação de ônibus no centro da cidade de Bath.        Demos uma perguntada básica e fomos direto a atração mais famosa:  Roman Baths and Pump Room.Outros passeios que você pode fazer em Bath  (sugestões que nós não visitamos, mas ficamos com vontade de passar se tivéssemos um tempinho a mais)          Nº1 Royal Crescent Um museu que nos leva de volta ao tempo numa das melhores casas de estilo Georgiano da Inglaterra. Decorado e mobiliado como era o mobiliário da época, no período de 1776 a 1796. Veja aqui um vídeo onde você pode ter uma amostrinha desta  mansão: http://no1royalcrescent.org.uk/explore/   Bath City Sightseeing Aquele passeio clássico de ônibus pelos principais pontos turísticos de Bath, no esquema Hop On Hop Off.   Prior Park Landscape Garden Tem uma construção local, como uma ponte que só a visita a esta construção deve valer a pena. Fica na região do vale de Bath, e é um jardim Georgiano, do século XVIII.   Bath Abbey Além de ser uma igreja em funcionamento, com os horários de serviço normal e eventos, oferece um tour pelas Torres, visitando a área dos sinos, do relógio e da abóbada. Outros episódios na Inglaterra: -Ep. 50-Ebook Glastonbury -Ep. 51-O Cursus de Stonehenge --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/os-caminhantes/message

Ep 228 | Walk through Stonehenge, the Roman Baths, the Streets of London and see some UK CULTURE with ya boys 0:00 Intro 0:55 The boys wake up in London 4:06 podding with the realest 5:22 that basquiat type beat 6:29 nightcity 7:30 thoughtful meditations 8:40 chicken spot 11:10 eddy gets his first shape up in a decade 15:27 Stonehenge 18:13 the city of Bath 21:47 the Roman Baths 24:22 the boys go to a play at a soho theatre 26:20 them night time convos 30:48 drinking unregulate jamaican afrodisiacs 32:19 the comedy show 33:55 outro Watch all of the content from our UK trip here: https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLFd0JsbuFk_cF9I3_J7qx6z9Oc0K2zcae&si=PVl2SF7GWK_6Vke5 Grab a thang of our card game at https://shop.wavingtheredflag.com/products/its-a-red-flag-card-game (now shipping to the UK) https://www.youtube.com/c/WavingtheRedFlag/join https://www.patreon.com/wavingtheredflag https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/wavingtheredflag/subscribe

Skip the Queue is brought to you by Rubber Cheese, a digital agency that builds remarkable systems and websites for attractions that helps them increase their visitor numbers. Your host is  Kelly Molson, Founder of Rubber Cheese.Download the Rubber Cheese 2023 Visitor Attraction Website Report - the annual benchmark statistics for the attractions sector.If you like what you hear, you can subscribe on iTunes, Spotify, and all the usual channels by searching Skip the Queue or visit our website rubbercheese.com/podcast.If you've enjoyed this podcast, please leave us a five star review, it really helps others find us. And remember to follow us on Twitter for your chance to win the books that have been mentioned in this podcastCompetition ends on 17th April 2024. The winner will be contacted via Twitter. Show references: https://carbonsix.digital/https://www.linkedin.com/in/pmarden/Paul Marden is the Founder and Managing Director of Carbon Six Digital and the CEO of Rubber Cheese. He is an Umbraco Certified Master who likes to think outside the box, often coming up with creative technical solutions that clients didn't know were possible. Paul oversees business development and technical delivery, specialising in Microsoft technologies including Umbraco CMS, ASP.NET, C#, WebApi, and SQL Server. He's worked in the industry since 1999 and has vast experience of managing and delivering the technical architecture for both agencies and client side projects of all shapes and sizes. Paul is an advocate for solid project delivery and has a BCS Foundation Certificate in Agile. https://www.rubbercheese.com/https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellymolson/Kelly Molson is the Founder of Rubber Cheese, a user focused web design and development agency for the attraction sector. Digital partners to Eureka! The National Children's Museum, Pensthorpe, National Parks UK, Holkham, Visit Cambridge and The National Marine Aquarium.Kelly regularly delivers workshops and presentations on sector focused topics at national conferences and attraction sector organisations including ASVA, ALVA, The Ticketing Professionals Conference and the Museum + Heritage Show.As host of the popular Skip the Queue Podcast for people working in or working with visitor attractions, she speaks with inspiring industry experts who share their knowledge of what really makes an attraction successful.Recent trustee of The Museum of the Broads. Our guests:Paul Wright from Made by WagAndy Povey from ConviousLooking forward to 2023: Key digital trends attractions shouldn't miss out onBernard Donoghue from ALVASeason finale, with Bernard Donoghue!David Hingley from BOP ConsultingVisitor Experience restructure at Tate, with David HingleyPaul Griffiths from Painshill ParkThe transformation of Painshill Park, with Paul Griffiths, Director of PainshillRoss Ballinger from Drayton ManorThe importance of building a great social community and process behind rebranding a 70 year old attractionDanielle Nicholls from Alton TowersThe importance of building a great social community and process behind rebranding a 70 year old attractionRachel Mackay from Hampton Court PalaceThe importance of Sector Cooperation with Carlton Gajadhar and Rachel MackaySophie from Eureka! The National Children's MuseumHow to write a website brief that agencies will thank you for, with Sophie BallingerElizabeth McKay, CEO of the London Transport MuseumDeveloping a culture of innovation, with Elizabeth McKaySimon Addison from The Roman BathsHow introducing variable pricing increased revenue by 2.3 million, with Simon AddisonDominic Jones from The Mary Rose and Portsmouth Historic DockyardAttraction partnerships and rivalries, with Dominic Jones  Transcription:  Kelly Molson: Welcome to Skip the Queue, a podcast for people working in or working with visitor attractions.Paul Marden: On today's episode, I'm joined by my co host, Kelly Molson, founder of Rubber Cheese, as well as a group of returning guests to the podcast. This is Kelly's last episode as the host of Skip the Queue as she's leaving rubber cheese after 21 fantastic years of the agency. Today we'll be turning the tables on Kelly as the guests ask her the icebreaker questions. We'll also be looking back at the impact the podcast has had as some of our guests share their experiences of appearing on the podcast with Kelly.Kelly Molson: If you like what you hear, subscribe on all the usual channels by searching Skip the Queue.Paul Marden: So, how you doing?Kelly Molson: I feel slightly. I feel slightly apprehensive. You just said, like, are you ready? Have you got your tissues ready? Like I have. I'm prepared.Paul Marden: Good. So, listeners, today is a big episode, as well as being on 99th episode is also Kelly's last episode as the Skip the Queue host. Yeah. So many of you will know that after 21 years heading up Rubber Cheese, Kelly has decided to spread her wings and move on to pastures new. Paul Marden: And while this is news from many of the listeners, I've had a few months to prepare for this. So I've been thinking long and hard about this episode of what can I do? And I thought it'd be nice to look back at some of your best bits, but I didn't feel like I should do that on my own. I actually thought the best way of looking back at your best bits are to bring your best bits back to us. So I'm just gonna admit a load of people that want to join the edge.Kelly Molson: Oh, no.Paul Marden: So we have got a host of po face and audience members that are going to join us today.Kelly Molson: I'm going to cry already.Paul Marden: Excellent. I've done my job to start with straight away, so everyone's joined us for a virtual leaving party. So I hope you've got your whatsits in a bowl and your cheese and pineapple ready for you as we look back over some of your best bits and enjoy a Skip the Queue episode at its best. And so, for those of you that are listening and not watching, first of all, where have you been? These aren't facestrail radio. You should be subscribing on YouTube and watch these lovely people. But if you're listening, let me introduce you to the host of people that are joining us. We've got Andy Povey from Convious. We've got Bernard Donoghue from ALVA. We've got David Hingley from BOP Consulting. We've got Rachel Mackay from Hampton Court Palace. Sophie Ballinger from Eureka!Kelly Molson: You're supposed to be on holiday.Paul Marden: Sophie from Eureka! The National Children's Museum. We've got Ross Ballinger from Drayton Manor. We've got Dominic Jones from the Mary Rose. And we've also been joined by some of your lovely Rubber Cheese colleagues that wanted to say hi and goodbye.Kelly Molson: Look at everyone's beautiful faces. Oh, God.Paul Marden: And the tissues are going already.Kelly Molson: Do you know what? Just before I came on, I was like, I'm not going to cry. I am completely in control of today. If it was yesterday, I would have cried, but I'm completely in control today. I am not in control at all.Paul Marden: So, long time listeners will know that we always start off with an icebreaker question. And Kelly never tells the guests what the icebreaker question is in advance. So I'm afraid, Kelly, it's your turn. Bernard, you're going to kick off for us today. Would you like to ask Kelly your icebreaker question? Bernard Donoghue: Thank you. Claudia Winkleman. I'm delighted to join this episode of The Traitors. Paul Marden: Have you got the fringe to be Claudia? I'm sorry.Kelly Molson: No, we have not.Bernard Donoghue: Kelly, it's World Book day tomorrow. You've received short notice. What book do you go as to work, please?Kelly Molson: Oh, I would. I'd have to take one of my daughter's books. So she has got this book called Oh, no, George. And it's about an incredibly naughty dog with. He's a ginger dog with a very long nose. I would have to dress up as George because he doesn't do himself any favours. He hopes that he's going to be good, but he's just. He can't cope with being good and he eats all the cake and he knocks over all the tulips in the house and he's incredibly lovable, but incredibly naughty. So definitely George. That's me. Right.Bernard Donoghue: It's a lovely insight into your personality. Paul Marden: Perfect. Kelly Molson:  Great question. Paul Marden: It is a great question. I hope you're ready for a few more because we've got some of these lined up for you. So the next. The next person that's going to join us, unfortunately couldn't be here today, so they sent me a little message that we'll play now.Paul Wright: Hi, Kelly. Remember me? It's Wag here.Kelly Molson: This is my old co founder.Paul Wright: My question to you. If every time someone clicked on a website and it made a sound. What noise would you want it to make?Kelly Molson: Oh, it has to be a big old fart noise, right? A real big wet one, like a whoopee cushion. Fart noise, please. Thank you.Paul Marden: So, Mrs. Marden, over breakfast this morning, as were talking through what I was going to talk about, said, oh, she's just going to say wet fart, surely.Kelly Molson: Absolutely.Paul Marden:  She knows you so well.Kelly Molson: She's my level Paul Marden:  Completely. Next up, we've got Mr. Andy Povey. Andy Povey: Hi, Kelly. It's been a while. So I'm very pleased to be here, but not for the reason that we are all there for. We spend a lot of time on the road, travelling around for our jobs. So my question is, what's your favourite motorway service station and why?Kelly Molson: I tell you what, Peterborough motorway service station. Because I know that I'm probably an hour from home then, so I'm nearly home. I've had a good few coffees in Peterborough service station.Andy Povey: I've not tried that one, I must admit.Kelly Molson: I mean, I don't know if it's up there with, like, the best, but, you know, I just. I know that I'm going to be home soon.Paul Marden: Bit depressing that the favourite motorway service is the one that's closest to home for you. Thank you, Andy. Next up, so here's a surprise. Danielle Nicholls from Alton Towers, you've managed to join us.Danielle Nicholls: So my question to you, Kelly, is you've worked with a lot of attractions and theme parks over the years, but which is your favourite theme park attraction or ride that you've ever been on?Kelly Molson: This is not a good question to ask, is it? Because I'm going to upset people. Danielle Nicholls: You can be diplomatic about it. Kelly Molson: My favourite ride, definitely not those ones that swing and literally make you one of them. My favourite ride. It's really hard. Yeah, it's really hard. Well, I was just trying to think of, like, where do I go with this? But I'm going to go with the one. It was mine and my dad's favourite when I was a kid and it doesn't exist anymore, which is really sad, but it's the Back to the Future ride at Universal.Kelly Molson: Which was absolutely epic and I can remember years ago queuing up like four times on the trot to go on it with my dad and he just. It was just brilliant. Absolutely absolute. I mean, I love that. I love eighties music movies. Yeah. My genre, anyway, but, yeah, that ride was absolutely incredible. Oh, that's amazing. Danielle Nicholls: I never got to do that one so very jealous. Kelly Molson: Good memories.Paul Marden: Paul Griffiths, can you take the floor and give Kelly a grilling? Paul Griffiths: Of course. Hi, Kelly. Good to see you. And good to see everyone else. We know that you love picking up souvenirs and knickknacks on your travels, particularly attractions. So what is your favourite souvenir you've taken away from one of your best tourist attractions?Kelly Molson: I've got them all here. Look at them. I've got my bounty on my desk.Paul Griffiths:  The show and tell answer then, isn't it?Kelly Molson: Look, I've got. Yeah. Okay. What's my favourite one, though?Paul Marden: For listeners, hey can't see you picking up a dodgy eighties ice cream box.Kelly Molson: This is my ‘80s. It's a Bijam economy vanilla ice cream tub, which my parents were obviously really keen on feeding us well as a child. But in it are, I mean, hundreds and hundreds of rubbers that I've collected from different places and attractions over the years. And they smell. I wish this was smellyvision because they absolutely smell divine. There's so many in here. But I think, again, this is. And this is for memories. I'm going to go with this one and it's really old. This is my Thorpe Park rubber.Paul Griffiths:  Very classic.Kelly Molson: Isn't it great? So it's got the Thorpe park rabbit on it. Rangers. Danielle Nicholls: Is it the Thorpe Park Rangers? Kelly Molson: Yeah. Yeah. Thorpe Park Ranger. Yeah. Thorpe Park. So that was, again, that was probably the closest attraction to the closest theme park to me as a kid, and we used to go there a lot and, like, my uncle used to take me there in the summer holidays. The whole family used to go. So that one has got really good memories. That's a great question, Paul. There's so many in here, though, that I could have chosen.Paul Griffiths:  I didn't age to have them all to hand, though. Kelly Molson: That sat on my desk.Paul Marden: So I promised you that we would try and faithfully stick to the format once you hand the Batman to me. So I'm going to give you a breather from being grilled by everybody. What was your unpopular opinion that you wanted to share with everybody?Kelly Molson: Peas. Peas. Peas are the food of the devil. Peas taint everything that they touch. Sometimes. Nobody tells you that there's peas in stuff on the menu as well. Like, I love a fish pie. Fish pie is delicious. When you open up a fish pie and someone's gone. No, we'll just throw a few handful of peas in there just for a laugh. That's not fun. You can pick them out of stuff, but you can taste them in absolutely everything that they are in.Paul Marden: That's not an unpopular opinion, that's just. That's just a fact. I don't know how everybody else feels about peas, but I'm a pea hater as well.Sophie Ballinger:  Oh, what about cheesy peas?Kelly Molson: No, cheesy peas. Even cheese would not make peas taste appealing to me.Dominic Jones: Wasabi peas?Kelly Molson: No. Danielle Nicholls:  Minty peas? Kelly Molson: No peas. I like beans. Beans are okay. And like edamame beans, which I like peas. But not peas. It's just a very distinct difference.Bernard Donoghue: Nurse. Nurse. She's out of bed again.Sophie Ballinger:  Where do you stand on mushy peas? Kelly Molson: Oh, so far from mushy peas. I did have to cook them once for Lee's old granddad. Oh, God. No.Paul Marden: Guacamole as. Who was it? It was one of the politicians and labour politics. Andy Povey: Peter Mandelson. Paul Marden: There we go. Peter Mandelson went into a fish and chip shop and asked to have guacamole with his fish and chips and it turned out was mushy peas.Kelly Molson: I'd eat guacamole with my chips. That's fine.Paul Marden: So should we go back to grilling you on some.Kelly Molson: This whole episode is just awkward questions for me. Is it great?Paul Marden: You've done this to everybody for 99 episodes. It's your turn to take one. Rachel Mackay from Hampton Court Palace, welcome.Rachel Mackay: Oh, hello. I've decided to go against the grade. I'm not going to ask your revision question because I know you'll just stare blankly at me anyway, so I'm going to go more general. What is your preference, running shoes or dancing shoes? Kelly Molson: Oh, dancing shoes. Dancing shoes all the way. I really miss dancing. You don't get to dance enough when you get older. Dancing is the one thing that I used to really love doing with my friends. Rachel Mackay: I thought you would say dancing shoes because also it gives you a bit of a heel.Kelly Molson: Which I need. No, you're absolutely right.Paul Marden: So the dancing. You'll be able to get them back out again soon because, what, Eddie's two now? Two and a bit. It will soon be birthday party season, where you'll be doing the hokey cokey and you'll be doing the conga.Kelly Molson: And she's already got all my moves. She's already got all my moves. Yeah, she's in the dancing zone.Paul Marden: Excellent. Next up, we've got somebody else that couldn't join us today, so they've sent us another little video to share with you. So this is Simon Addison from the Roman Baths and number two in the hour, top ten paid attractions outside London. And I say, sorry, Dominic.Dominic Jones: He deserves it. He's a great guy. And so is the Roman Baths.Paul Marden: Exactly. You haven't heard what he says yet.Simon Addison: Hey, Kelly, it's Simon Addison here from the Roman Baths. I'm really sorry that I couldn't be with you for the recording today. Before I ask you my ice breaker question, I just wanted to tell you about the impact that skip the queue is having, not just on those people who work in visitor attractions, but those who visit them too. Last month, I was walking around the National Portrait Gallery with Dominic Jones and a visitor genuinely pulled him over and asked him if he was the Dominic Jones from Skip the Queue. Kelly, you have created an absolute monster there.Kelly Molson: I love this.Dominic Jones: That is actually true. It actually happened. We were a bit bemused by it and were worried that someone had set this visitor up, but they genuinely wanted a Korean visitor attractions and had listened to it and I'd obviously said my name a bit too loud to Simon and they came up and asked for a picture. It was completely random, but brilliant.Paul Marden: I'm a little bit heartbroken because I actually genuinely thought they spotted the face and knew you from the YouTube.Dominic Jones: I think it was the voice, but, yeah, no, it was brilliant. It's all because of Skip the Queue, which is Simon's rise had a massive impact on everyone in our industry and actually people who want to join our industry. So you should be really proud. And hopefully that's the last random stranger that stopped me. But it was fantastic.Kelly Molson: Do you know what? I do feel really proud of that.Paul Marden: So, Simon's question.Simon Addison: Kelly, my icebreaker question for you is what is the weirdest piece of advice that you've ever received? And did you follow it? Thanks very much, Kelly, and thanks for everything. Thanks for all the episodes over the years and I wish you the very best of luck with everything.Kelly Molson: I'm trying to think what has been. Do you know, I have been given some advice about public speaking before, which I thought was quite strange. I used to really. I used to get really anxious about public speaking. It wasn't something that was massively comfortable for me. And I had loads of coaching from a really good friend of mine, Andy Loparta. And I don't know if it was Andy. I don't think this was Andy that gave me this advice. I'm pretty sure it wouldn't have been. But someone told me that if you go on stage and you clench your butt cheeks, you can't actually clench anything else. At the same time. And I'm like. I am, though. I'm clenching my butt cheeks now and I'm clenching my teeth so you can. But that's always stuck in my head.Kelly Molson: So I definitely tried it, but I don't know that it helped with my speaking whatsoever. I'm doing it now. Is everyone. Is everyone doing it now? Is everyone trying it? Everyone's doing it.Paul Marden: Standing desk practicing it right now.Sophie Ballinger: Yeah. Start bobbing up and down in my seat. You'll know why. Kelly Molson: There you go.Paul Marden: Lovely segue. Sophie Ballinger from Eureka. Why don't you ask Kelly your icebreaker?Kelly Molson: Hello, duck. Sophie Ballinger: Hello, duck. Hey, I've got a bit of a random one. I think I might have. It might have been asked you this in the agency interview many years ago, but I'm not sure because it's one of my favourites. Who would win in a fight between a badger and a baboon? Kelly Molson: I don't remember you asking me this. Sophie Ballinger: Should have done.Kelly Molson: Badger. I think Badger. Badgers are quite vicious, aren't they? You think the boots. Everyone's shaking their head. Oh, I think badger. I've never seen a live badger either, but I know that they're quite vicious.Paul Marden: We went into South Africa a few years ago and we stopped because we saw a troop of baboons on the side of the road and there were other people watching. So everybody got out their cars and they all stood around. All of a sudden, this alpha male baboon just crosses the road to the car behind us, opens the back door, gets into the woman's handbag when he's rifling through trying to find chocolate and she's sat in the front seat going absolutely crazy. So I promise you it'll be the baboon. So next up, we've got another video. Joining us this time it is Elizabeth McKay, CEO of the London Transport Museum.Elizabeth Mckay: Hi, Kelly. You were the nicest interviewer I ever had. So my question for you is equally nice, I hope. So, when you're getting around London, what's your favourite mode of travel? Is it tube, bus or cycle? Kelly Molson: Oh, I actually prefer to walk, so neither of the above. I know. Sorry. I'm sorry. I like. So I have to get the train in. So my train is the Liverpool street line. So I tend to get off. You know, I go. I'll go to Liverpool street and then I quite like to walk places. I do like the tube. Not gonna dis the tube, especially not to Elizabeth. But I quite like the opportunity to go and see stuff. And I think walking around London, everything feels everything so close together.Kelly Molson: So it's nice to be able to just walk and see things that you wouldn't normally see.Bernard Donoghue: Can I just point out that I've seen Kelly getting out of a disco rickshaw at least three times in the last week.Kelly Molson: Fake news. Fake news.Paul Marden: Now, Kelly, you did say to me that you had a few thank you messages that you wanted to share with people. So do you want to just have a couple of minutes to thank some people?Kelly Molson: Yes, I would. I would like to thank everybody because people have always been so incredibly generous with their time for me, and I'm always so grateful of that. You're generous to come on and talk to me. You're generous to come on and answer my ridiculous questions, but generous to share all your insight and knowledge. And I think especially through the pandemic, that meant an incredible amount to me and hopefully to our listeners as well. It really felt like people were coming on and sharing kind of a real time. This is where we're at. This is what's happening, and this is what we're doing about it. Experience. And it was amazing.Kelly Molson: The pandemic was incredibly difficult for everybody, but for me, the highlight was knowing that I was getting to speak to so many different people and being able to share that with other people as well. And it made it a really special time for me. So thank you for everybody that has ever come on the podcast and answered my stupid questions and shared all of their stuff with me. Thank you. Thank you to all of the listeners. I genuinely could not have imagined. I could not have imagined how well this podcast would go. I honestly can remember the day that I came in, I was like, “We should definitely do this podcast. I've been looking. I don't think there's anything like it. We should do it.” And my team going, “Yeah, how do we do it? I don't know. Let's just do it, though.”Kelly Molson: And this is what happens. I come up with these crazy ideas, and I'm the driver of them, but it's all the people around me that actually make the magic happen. And that is. That's for the podcast, that's for the survey, the report, the agency itself. All I've done is just kind of drag it along and share it with people. It's all the other people behind the scenes that do it. Steve works his magic every single episode. He really does. He cuts out a lot of swearing. The very professional introductions that I record separately to the interviews. Jesus. The amount of swearing that he has to cut out on those is ridiculous. So well done, Steve, mate, you deserve that award winning podcast editor title just for this. And Wenalyn. So Wenalyn down here waving. She.Kelly Molson: I mean, she really is the powerhouse behind the podcast because I'll get you to come on. We'll have a lovely chat. It goes over to Steve for the editor, and it comes back to, well, and she does everything. She does everything. She creates all the graphics. She uploads everything to the, you know, the website, she does the transcriptions, she creates, does all the podcasts, all the scheduling, all of the. All of it. So, you know, she really does do all the hard grunt work behind it. So thank you, Wenalyn. It's been such a lovely. It's been lovely to work with you over the years. Thank you.Paul Marden: Wenalyn wins the award for the longest distance journey into the meeting today because Wenalyn is over in the Philippines. Wenalyn wins this award in every single meeting that we have. So she does.Kelly Molson: She does. There is one more. Thank you. I wanna make, which is to the unsung hero of Skip the Queue. So it's for an old team member of mine, Ashley Mays, because if it wasn't for her, actually, there probably wouldn't be a Skip the Queue. She made this happen, really. Not only did she come up with the name, but she actually got one of our first guests to agree to come onto the podcast. Because I can't tell you how difficult that first season was. If you've ever gone back, it actually launched in July 2019. This podcast, myself and my co founder, Wag, who asked the ridiculous question I answered with a fart earlier. We both used to interview guests, but if you've ever tried to get someone to come onto a podcast and they go, great. Yeah.Kelly Molson: How many listeners and downloads have you got? You're like, none. Absolutely none. No listeners. You are our first guest. Please help us make something magic. That was quite a hard sell. Ashley had a family member who agreed to come onto the podcast, and it was actually Lynne Whitnall, who is the director of Paradise Wildlife Park, which is now Hertfordshire Zoo. She was the biggest name that we could have possibly hoped for in that first series. So really, that was the kind of catalyst for all of the other amazing guests that have come on since. 2019 was a really tough year for Rubber Cheese, and I had to let Ashley go at the end of 2019, and I'll tell you now, that was the single worst thing that I've ever had to do in my whole career as an agency owner, because she was brilliant.Kelly Molson: And I felt like I'd failed her at that time. So I really wanted to make sure that she got a big thank you. She's gone on and done brilliant things. Don't get me wrong, brilliant people always do. But that was genuinely the toughest thing that I've ever had to do. And it's probably my biggest regret of running the agency all of these years as well. So, yeah, big shout out to Ashley. She made a big difference.Paul Marden:  Every agency owner enjoys the fun bits, the launches, the winning new business. Nobody enjoys that bit. But it is this life, isn't it? So, yeah, it was a tough time for everybody, wasn't it? And you said that Ashley came up with the name as well, didn't she?Kelly Molson: She did, yeah. Skip the Queue was all Ashley. I take no credit for that whatsoever.Paul Marden: Amazing.Danielle Nicholls: What a moment that was. That was really touching. Kelly Molson: Thank you.Paul Marden: Keep it together, mate. You've still got a few minutes to go.Kelly Molson: Okay?Paul Marden: So let's segue for some light relief to Ross Ballinger from Drayton Manor.Kelly Molson: Now, I'm not gonna lie, I'm really apprehensive about this. Ross. Ross Ballinger: Hello, lovely. Kelly Molson: Hi, Ross.Ross Ballinger: It's so nice to see and hear you. I feel like.Kelly Molson: Likewise, mate.Ross Ballinger: I've only known you, like, a short space of time but you were such a champion for me and Danielle when you spotted us at theme park award a few years ago.Danielle Nicholls: Really.Ross Ballinger: And we're just so grateful for that. You spotted our passion and our energy for the industry and obviously we just gravitated toward each other. Anything you've done for all the other professionals in the industry as well. So true testament to everything that you've done it just. It's all paid off and everyone loves you and thank you so much for everything on Skip the Queue.Kelly Molson: Oh, mate.Ross Ballinger: No, honestly, I think that was probably one of the best years I ever had in the industry, really, because it, like, it did stem up a couple of things did, like, fall out at the back of it because it got. It got me a little bit of 15 minutes of fame that I really enjoyed. And then I managed to do some presentations with different things and owe credit to you, really, for just, like, putting us in the limelight for a little bit. Kelly Molson: I'm so pleased. I'm so pleased. I just want to tell the story because I met the two of you at the UK theme park awards. It was at Drayton Manor, wasn't it? And these guys are on the table behind me and I've never had such enthusiasm. You two were the light, I mean, that. It was a bit of a. It was a bit of a. It was a. It was a tough crowd, wasn't it? Everyone was quite subdued in there, but used to, like, “Yes,” shouting and just.Danielle Nicholls: Basically every time anyone won, even if it was like, Pleasure Beach or being anyone. We were like, “Yeah, go guys.”Ross Ballinger: We were wooing everybody.Kelly Molson: What awards do should be like. Like, you two were like the Persona of an awards day. It was. It was so good to meet you that day. I had the best day meeting you two, and I just knew that I had to get you both on the podcast, and you were such a little dream team at Drayton Manor. And now, you know, you've set off on your different paths, but it's lovely to see. For me, it's really. I think it's brilliant to see where you're all going and what your good things are.Ross Ballinger: Yeah. Thank you.Danielle Nicholls: That's really kind. Thank you.Ross Ballinger:  Yeah, it was just one of those cases of, like, sat in the right place at the right time and the rest is history. Like, yeah, loved it. Loved the meeting on that day. Instant connection, you know? And you just get an instant connection with someone who shares the same energy and passion and insight, and they understand what you're doing and what you stand for. So, yeah, it was a really good day. Loved it. My icebreaker question, I did have four. Actually, so I don't even know if Paul knows what. I'm going to be honest.Paul Marden: Well, I'm taking the other two that you did send me because they were awesome.Ross Ballinger: I'm going to go with, if you could switch live with any fictional character, who would it be?Kelly Molson: It's a really good question. You need to. You have. You've wrote all these down, right? This is a good one.Ross Ballinger: Yeah. Yeah.Kelly Molson: With any fictional character. I'm trying to think of all the books that I've just thinking about. Well, okay. I've got this thing about reading. Like, if you go on holiday, I like to take, like, a really familiar book with me on holiday that you've read, like, a million times. And I don't know why. I've read The Beach, like, a billion times, which is far better than the film. Like, far better than the film. And I can't actually remember a guy's name in it now. It's gone off my head. But the Leonardo DiCaprio character in the book, I will swap lives with him because I feel like that whole travelling culture, I never got to do that. I wasn't brave enough to do that when I was younger, and I'd really like to go and do it now, but it's really difficult for toddler.Paul Marden: Not brave enough to do that. But you were brave enough to jack it all in and set up an agency 20 years ago.Kelly Molson: Yeah. Should I have done the travelling? Who knows? But, yeah, I think, yeah, I would swap places with him, although he goes a little bit crazy towards the end. I'd take that.Ross Ballinger: Thanks for your long lasting impact on a door. Thank you very much. Love you.Paul Marden: Well said, Ross. Crack and jog. So I'm going to take that and segue off quite nicely now to a video from your greatest fan, my daughter, Miss Amelia Marden. She wanted to be part of this, but she's busy at school today, so she sent you in a question and she said,Amelia Marden: Hello, Kelly. I've seen the video of the roller coaster you and dad went on at Drayton Manor. My question is, what is your favourite sort of roller coaster? Vertical drop or a loop de loop? Love you from Amelia.Paul Marden: For listeners. I kept it together on that roller coaster. There was no noise. I was completely composed. Everything was fine until it started moving at the beginning.Kelly Molson: So was this. No, hang on a minute. Was this the, this was the in the Viking. This is the Viking one, wasn't it? Because we've been on two roller coasters together. And the second one, it was in the rain and there was a lot of screaming in my ear as well. The first one was. Yeah, the first one was relatively screamy as well. What is my favourite? I like the shock of a drop. I do like a loop a loop. I'm cool with those. But there's something about like that. There's a, there's a motion sickness thing with me that is a bit. So the drop one I quite like. And again, this has got another good memory of my dad is that is Terra Towers. He loves the Terror Towers drop so much.Kelly Molson: My dad's got this thing in his head about taking Edie to Disney. Like my dad. My dad best in, he'll be when she's five, he'll be like 76. So, you know, he's getting on and he's like, that's my cutoff point. We're going to go to Disney when she's five, whether we all like it or not, because I can't do it any older than that. And he's like, we're going to go on Terror Towers, aren't we, Dad? I don't know if you should, dad. It's almost, I feel like maybe it was trigger of a heart attack. I don't know. A bit worried. But he's adamant that he's, you know.Paul Marden: He's going to Edie's five and we're taking them on to Terror Towers.Kelly Molson: Maybe it's going to work, Dad.Paul Marden: I think we don't need to set dad's expectations, teacups. And it's a small world and that's about it.Kelly Molson: Yeah, I'll have that chat with him.Paul Marden: And we have got a message in from Mister David Hingley.David Hingley: So I sit in a lot of meetings with Kelly, either in person or online, in her role as a trustee at Museum of the Broads. And it's usually not as dramatic as it might be. We talk about steamboats, coal, and our upcoming Pete exhibition, which is fascinating but can lack a bit of drama. So my question is, if every time you enter a room for the rest of your life a piece of entrance music plays, what piece of music are you choosing and why?Kelly Molson: Oh, my God. I've never thought about this question. This is a great question. Why has everyone given me really good questions now that I'm leaving? You idiots.Paul Marden: David is promising to play this at every future trustees meeting. As you arrive, he'll have Spotify on the phone ready to play.Kelly Molson: What would be my entrance music? I feel like it's got to be something. It's got to be something dancy where I can get my groove on. So I feel like. Like this someone's. Loads of people have probably said this, but I feel like. Like here comes the hot stepper. Would be a good one for me because I can, you know, I can drive in. Here come the odd stepper, you know?David Hingley:  I'll record the next trustee meeting museums of the broad and circulates to this group.Kelly Molson: Oh, please do.Paul Marden: Thank you, David.Kelly Molson: I'll tell you what. I'll do it at the AGM. I'll dance in at the AGM.Paul Marden: So last up, we have Mr. Dominic Jones from the Mary Rose, who, along with Portsmouth Historic Dockyard, the third most popular paid attraction outside of London in the hour list released yesterday.Dominic Jones: Yeah, very happy about that. Very happy.Paul Marden: I can take you one better because still the undisputed most listened to podcast guest on Skip the Queue as of yesterday. Wow.Dominic Jones: I honestly can't believe that.Paul Marden: I know, I know. It's not as if you haven't dined out on that fact several times before.Andy Povey: He doesn't like to talk about it, Paul.Kelly Molson: He's so shy, doesn't he? Dominic Jones: I am shy. I don't talk about myself. That's incredible. What did you say number one?Paul Marden: Number one by country mile, I might say.Kelly Molson: Yeah, by nearly a hundred downloads, actually.Dominic Jones: Oh, well, that's fantastic. I'm absolutely honored about that. I have to say, I am so sad that Skip the Queue with Kelly is coming to an end because it's kept me company on many a motorway journey, on many a day when I've had a really tough day at work and thought, you know, what's going to cheer me up is Skip the Queue. Because not only do you motivate and inspire the next generation, like the person that sort of bumped into me and Simon, but you also motivate, inspire all of us. And actually, without Skip the Queue, and to be fair, ALVA as well, I don't think I'd have this amazing network of friends and colleagues that really keep me sane in some of the tough times.Dominic Jones: So I know we often talk and Bernard talks about how visitor attractions are like sort of the fourth emergency service, I would say, when it comes to working in a visitor attraction, you and ALVA. So Skip the Queue and ALVA are the emergency services, because without you, I don't think we'd be sane. Absolutely. You've made such a difference to my personal life and I can't thank you enough. But for an icebreaker question, one of the things that irritates me on Skip the Queue is you can tell who Kellys favourites are. So if she has someone from the zoo and she likes them, whats your favourite animal? Or someone from a theme park, whats your favorite ride? And then she gets people that she just asks really difficult icebreakers. So I was thinking, how can I get the most random, hardest icebreaker?Dominic Jones:  And I was trying to remember, but when I was a child in the eighties and nineties growing up, a lot of my friends had Sky TV. We couldn't afford Sky TV. We had BBC One and BBC two. Well, on Sky TV there was this thing called WWF. Now, this was before the Internet. So I went to the library and worked out that it was about looking after animals. Turns out it wasn't. It was actually wrestling. And so I used to sort of been in the playground, talk to my friends, but never ever watching it, never really understanding it. So I'd be in my bedroom. I was very young at the time, pretending to be a WWF wrestler. I was the praying mantis, because I did watch BBC 2 a lot. Mantis, one of the very strongest animal in the animal kingdom.Dominic Jones: But if you were a wrestler in the WWF, what would be your wrestling name?Kelly Molson: I used to love the wrestling.Dominic Jones: I bet you did. I bet you did.Kelly Molson: I did. We went. So they did the one in the UK. They did the royal rumble and I had the finger and everything. Yeah. I used to like the bushwhackers and rowdy Roddy Piper and Jake the Snake. I was well into it. I was really into it. Yeah. I was not cool at school until I was well into the wrestling. So what would be my wrestling name?Dominic Jones: Yeah. And why?Kelly Molson: The trouble is, I'm a bit of a lover, not a fighter, so don't think I'd actually make a very good wrestler. I'm not actually that aggressive. Looking at me as if I've said something crazy, then I'm not a fight. I might have a fiery temper, but I'm not a fighter. Oh, God. It's. I don't know what rhymes. Like, Kelly's a really rubbish name to rhyme stuff, but Kick ass Kelly, it's rubbish, isn't it?Dominic Jones: Good, that'll do.Kelly Molson: Okay. Kick ass Kelly. Yeah. I don't know what would be my costume. There'd definitely be some neon in there. I feel like I'd be like the eighties girl. Like neon leggings and leg warmers and stuff. Yeah.Dominic Jones: And maybe some fire in the background as well, just to spice it up. Yeah.Kelly Molson: Yeah, maybe.Paul Marden: I reckon there's got to be some cheese in there as well. You need some. You need some cheese in that wrestler name, ain't it?Kelly Molson: There's not many cheeses that begin that, like, rhyme with Kelly either.Dominic Jones: The worst ever icebreaker. I've ruined it.Kelly Molson: Good question. No, I like it.Dominic Jones: Oh, I should have done. What's your favourite boat? That's what I should have done.Paul Marden: Oh, come on then.Kelly Molson: What's my favourite boat? Well, it would have to be the falcon or the. Can't remember the name of the other one.David Hingley: Well, the other one.Kelly Molson: Is it the Marsh Harrier?David Hingley: That's the one.Kelly Molson: There you go. At the Museum of the Broads is a wonderful museum. You can also take your family out on a little boat trip. It's also dog friendly as well, you know, bring all your friends.Dominic Jones: Great. Plug in one of your recent episodes. I was listening and thought about booking a holiday. It was a great plug in the last episode. You did?Kelly Molson: Well, if you do fancy a little holiday trip to Norfolk, you know, there's a little holiday cottage that you could. You could hit me up for, Dominic. So just, you know, let me know.Dominic Jones: Absolutely.Paul Marden: I reckon I should have got 20 quid in my pocket every time you mention that guest house.Kelly Molson: I really hope that someone books someday and they're like, “We heard it on Skip the Queue.” “Yes! It worked.”Paul Marden: They'll insist on a discount. Thank you, Don. That was amazing. If any of our listeners would like to support any of the other guests and boost their listener figures to compete with Don, I'm going to put the details of everybody's episodes in the show notes, because frankly, Dominic Jones: Why would you do that?Kelly Molson: That's mean.Dominic Jones: Why would you do that? Surely this is the end now. Number one, the end.Paul Marden: We're talking load of nonsense and I need to put something in the show notes. So I thought I'd put the episodes that everybody was in on the show notes. Can you exclude one, Paul? Oh, I'm sure I can, yes.Dominic Jones: I think yours is okay, Andy. I wouldn't exclude you. Yours was a great one. Paul Marden:  So they'll all be in the show notes. And lastly, all of our guests asked to pick a book that they love. So Kelly, what's your book?Kelly Molson: I read this book right at the very start of my agency journey. A very good friend of mine, he's been a coach of mine for a number of years, said that you should read this book, and it is How to win friends and influence people by Dale Carnegie. It's a very old book, but it is a classic. And this book opened my eyes and ears. So it really taught me how to understand and listen to people. And I think for me, building an agency like we have over the years, so much of that comes down to listening to people, understanding what their challenges are. You know, we have to network. You know, a lot of what we do is based on reputation and how likable you can be and all of those kind of things.Kelly Molson: And this book really gives you an understanding of that, about what it is to be likable. And you shouldn't have to teach this to people. Like, really, it's pretty common sense, but, you know, it can be difficult for people to understand, like, why you should listen to people and why you should just let people talk. And I think a lot of the things that I learned from this book, I have applied to the podcast, so I just want to read out a little synopsis. Well, some of the things that I think are really important about how you listen to people, and it's. It's about becoming genuinely interested in other people.Kelly Molson: And I hope that has come across in this podcast, because every single person that has come on and shared with me has just given me so much to think about, and I've learned so much from you all. It teaches you to smile, like smiling is just so important. I've always been amazed at how many people that don't smile back when I smile at them when I'm out walking the dog in the morning. Just smiling is the simplest thing that you can do to connect with somebody. Remembering people's names. Remember that a person's name to that person is the most important sound in any language. Make sure that you can just remember people's names. Be a good listener. Encourage others to talk about themselves. And I hope that I've done that. I've always hoped this podcast, you know, it's not about me.Kelly Molson: It won't be about Paul. It will be about all the guests that come on and still continue to come on and talk to us about their stories and their challenges and their initiatives and all the brilliant things that they do. And I hope that I have gone above and beyond in making other people feel important. And I hope I've been sincere in doing that as well because it is all about you. You all make this podcast amazing and I genuinely am so grateful that you've allowed me into your ears and allowed me to share everybody else's stories in a really fun way. So thank you.Paul Marden: Kelly, that was really. Yeah, awesome. Listeners. If you'd like to win in Kelly's book, then head over to the show announcement on X and retweet as saying, I want Kelly's book. That just leaves me to say that we are busy planning season six now. Wanlyn and I met yesterday with Oz to start brainstorming ideas for what we can do in season six. If you've got ideas, then send them in. Let us know on Twitter. We'd love to hear those X, I should say. If you would like to appear in an episode, let us know, because I love to interview people. So let us know if you'd like to come onto the podcast, that would be amazing. That's about it from all of us here today. So I want to thank my lovely co hosts, the Skip the Queue alumni.Paul Marden: I want to thank the rest of the Rubber Cheese team that came along as well. I want to thank you, Kelly, for everything that you've done for us and thank the lovely listeners. I look forward to seeing you all in the next episode of Skip the Queue.Kelly Molson: Thank you so much. This is amazing. Thank you. Kelly Molson: Thanks for listening to Skip the Queue. If you've enjoyed this podcast, please leave us a five star review. It really helps others find us. And remember to follow us on Twitter for your chance to win the books that have been mentioned. Skip The Queue is brought to you by Rubber Cheese, a digital agency that builds remarkable systems and websites for attractions that helps them increase their visitor numbers. You can find show notes and transcriptions from this episode and more over on our website, rubbercheese.com/podcast.   The 2023 Visitor Attraction Website Report is now LIVE! Dive into groundbreaking benchmarks for the industryGain a better understanding of how to achieve the highest conversion ratesExplore the "why" behind visitor attraction site performanceLearn the impact of website optimisation and visitor engagement on conversion ratesUncover key steps to enhance user experience for greater conversionsDownload the report now for invaluable insights and actionable recommendations!

Mario's in a good mood. Congratulates Sam for getting the band working together The rest of the rehearsal went so well, thanks to her intervention. She was right The two are planning next week's programming schedule. They've spoken to Laura They are going to do a short feature on Laura's accident and pothole campaign Barry has helped Fiona put Jasper to bed. Fiona pours him a drink. She's nervous He asks her what's wrong and she confesses that she likes women as well as men Carmella serves Jordan and Sam. She's very busy as Vicky's at the cash and carry The girls take a table in the far corner of the café and Jordan reveals she's pregnant Charlotte briefs the helpers on progress with the charity shop. They have broadcast an appeal for donations on Radio Huntsford and been inundated. Shares the details Harry agrees to collect the donations. Charlotte says they plan to open before Xmas The pair are enjoying a long country walk in Cheddar Gorge. The weather is sunny The previous day they enjoyed afternoon tea at the Roman Baths followed by a tour

I love sharing mystical encounters with you over the Holidays You are invited to sit back, wonder, ask questions, and prepare yourself for a jolly laugh. *The most valuable Gift I can Give you this Christmas is Expectation we are Beginning a Series of Christmas Mystical Tales I invite you into my love of all things Period British... Share with you my 25 Days of Advent Christmas Collection  stir up the child's heart talk about transrelocation (time) the cloud of witnesses One of my favorite identity quotes: shared with us in the greatest of wisdom from Prophet Paul CainIt's better to be a mystic and be different.Because if being a mystic means... you see the invisible hear the inaudible and feel the intangible then I want to be a mystic... This episode encapsulates the quote, Happy ChristmasINTENTIONAL NOW SHOW NOTES   INTENTIONAL NOW FB COMMUNITY  Connect with Kristen onInstagram #intentionalnowpodcast. Twitter  Linkedin  Linktree Website KristenWambach.comPatreon Thank you for your ongoing support of this podcast. Thank you for spending this time with me, I am honored. See you next week Kristen Music Credits  by Stockaudios from Pixabay  

I love sharing mystical encounters with you over the Holidays You are invited to sit back, wonder, ask questions, and prepare yourself for a jolly laugh. *The most valuable Gift I can Give you this Christmas is Expectation we are Beginning a Series of Christmas Mystical Tales I invite you into my love of all things Period British... Share with you my 25 Days of Advent Christmas Collection  stir up the child's heart talk about transrelocation (time) the cloud of witnesses One of my favorite identity quotes: shared with us in the greatest of wisdom from Prophet Paul CainIt's better to be a mystic and be different.Because if being a mystic means... you see the invisible hear the inaudible and feel the intangible then I want to be a mystic... This episode encapsulates the quote, Happy ChristmasINTENTIONAL NOW SHOW NOTES   INTENTIONAL NOW FB COMMUNITY  Connect with Kristen onInstagram #intentionalnowpodcast. Twitter  Linkedin  Linktree Website KristenWambach.comPatreon Thank you for your ongoing support of this podcast. Thank you for spending this time with me, I am honored. See you next week Kristen Music Credits  by Stockaudios from Pixabay  

Skip the Queue is brought to you by Rubber Cheese, a digital agency that builds remarkable systems and websites for attractions that helps them increase their visitor numbers. Your host is  Kelly Molson, Founder of Rubber Cheese.Download the Rubber Cheese 2023 Visitor Attraction Website Report - the annual benchmark statistics for the attractions sector.If you like what you hear, you can subscribe on iTunes, Spotify, and all the usual channels by searching Skip the Queue or visit our website rubbercheese.com/podcast.If you've enjoyed this podcast, please leave us a five star review, it really helps others find us. Show references: https://carbonsix.digital/https://www.linkedin.com/in/pmarden/Paul Marden is the Founder and Managing Director of Carbon Six Digital and the CEO of Rubber Cheese. He is an Umbraco Certified Master who likes to think outside the box, often coming up with creative technical solutions that clients didn't know were possible. Paul oversees business development and technical delivery, specialising in Microsoft technologies including Umbraco CMS, ASP.NET, C#, WebApi, and SQL Server. He's worked in the industry since 1999 and has vast experience of managing and delivering the technical architecture for both agencies and client side projects of all shapes and sizes. Paul is an advocate for solid project delivery and has a BCS Foundation Certificate in Agile. https://www.rubbercheese.com/https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellymolson/Kelly Molson is the Founder of Rubber Cheese, a user focused web design and development agency for the attraction sector. Digital partners to Eureka! The National Children's Museum, Pensthorpe, National Parks UK, Holkham, Visit Cambridge and The National Marine Aquarium.Kelly regularly delivers workshops and presentations on sector focused topics at national conferences and attraction sector organisations including ASVA, ALVA, The Ticketing Professionals Conference and the Museum + Heritage Show.As host of the popular Skip the Queue Podcast for people working in or working with visitor attractions, she speaks with inspiring industry experts who share their knowledge of what really makes an attraction successful.Recent trustee of The Museum of the Broads.  Transcription:  Kelly Molson: Welcome to Skip the Queue, a podcast for people working in or working with visitor attractions. I'm your host, Kelly Molson. In this new monthly slot, Rubber Cheese CEO Paul Marden joins me to discuss different digital related topics. In this episode, we're talking about mobile optimisation, why it's important and what you can do to improve it. If you like what you hear, you can subscribe on all the usual channels by searching Skip the Queue. Kelly Molson: Hello, we're back. Everyone will be sick of us by this episode. Paul Marden: I give it a couple more. We've got some interesting stuff to talk about hopefully, hopefully.Kelly Molson: We have. Okay, so let's start as we usually do then, with what attraction have you visited most recently and what did you love about it? Paul Marden: Well, there's one that you and I both visited recently, and there was something I really didn't love about it. We went on what was it called? Was it Mandrake Mayhem? It's the new Jumanji ride. Chessington World of Adventures. Kelly Molson: Mandrill. Paul Marden: There we go. If you are a roller coaster nut, would be amazing. But yeah, within 2 seconds of the ride starting, I realised it was not the ride for me. Kelly Molson: I like roller coasters. Yeah. So we sponsored one of the awards at the UK Theme Park Awards. And it was brilliant. It's fantastic. Paul Marden: It was such a great event. Kelly Molson: Really good event, brilliantly organised. It was absolutely brilliant to see so many attraction friends there. And it was at Chessington World of Adventures, which was super cool. I also want to talk about Chessington because I had forgotten how good it is. So I haven't been to Chessington since I was really small, and I think I'm pretty sure I only visited once or twice because we actually lived closer to Thorpe Park and were like in the Thorpe Park Rangers camp. But what I'd forgotten about Chessington was the animals. Yeah, I was really lucky. I drove down the night before of the awards and got to stay at the hotel that night. I didn't get to stay in any of themed rooms because budget did not allow for that. Kelly Molson: However, what I'd forgotten was that when you're having breakfast, the animals are literally right outside where you're eating. And I'd forgotten about it to the extent that I went up to the buffet to go and get my lovely, delicious English breakfast, which I was really looking forward to. And I could see people looking out the window and I was like, "Oh, what are you looking at?" And they went, "Giraffes? Yeah. Wow." Actually took my breath away a little bit. It was a really great experience. It's not often that you get to eat your breakfast whilst looking at giraffes and zebras as well that were out there. So, yeah, that was really great. And I really enjoyed the roller coaster. Despite someone's screams in my ear.Paul Marden: I heard this screaming noise all the way around and about three quarters of the way around I realised it was me. Kelly Molson: There was quite a bit of a screaming, to be fair. Paul Marden: I watched it back. I found a video on YouTube to show Millie, my daughter, and I was like, "Oh, my God, it's horrific. You get to the end and you're just dangling on the side for about a minute and then it changes direction.” And we watched it on YouTube, it barely stops at the top of the ride. It gets up to the top, gets to a hole and then drops back down again. Now, to me, in my memory, that was a solid minute. We were hanging over the side of the hole.Kelly Molson: It was just a minute. Paul Marden: Anyway, I did enjoy it. Kelly Molson: Yeah, big thumbs up to Chessington. It was a really great experience. So, thank you. A big thumbs up to the UK Theme Park Awards organisers as well. It was a great event. We'll be back next year.Paul Marden: For sure. Kelly Molson: Right, we're going to talk about mobile optimisation in this episode. We're going to talk about why it's important and what you can do to improve it. And we've got some really interesting stats to share from the Visitor Attraction Website Report about this. But did you know optimisation is no longer a nice to have? It's a necessity, because Statista forecasts that retail sales from mobile commerce are expected to surpass that 100 billion mark by 2000 and 2400. Paul Marden: Crazy, isn't that? Kelly Molson: I started my career in digital, in ecommerce as well, which is crazy. So it just feels really I know, back in the day, so I always say it was my last proper job before I founded Rubber Cheese, which then has been like, what, nearly 21 years. So it was the last proper job that I had before I set that up was for a really early startup, almost like Shopify, but back then. So this is like 23 years ago. Paul Marden: We've got employees younger than that.Kelly Molson: Let's look at it. But it enabled sellers to go and build their own shop. It was called iShop. It was an absolutely incredible platform of its time. And back then, I just about had an email address, let alone did everything, could pretty much run my entire organisation on my mobile phone now. It just blows my mind how much things have moved on. Paul Marden: It's crazy, isn't it?Kelly Molson: Anyway, I digress. So our Visitor Attraction Website Report shows that attractions understand the importance of mobile optimisation for their websites, but there's really huge areas that could be improved. This, for me is the most shocking stat from the entire report. It's blown my mind slightly. 96% of the respondents stated that they had never conducted any user testing for their mobile sites. So that's nearly all of the 188 attractions that took part said that they've never done any user testing on their mobile, which I just don't understand. I've been banging on about testing on your mobile, testing your mobile site for every talk that I've given for the past two years. Paul Marden: Well, that's having a big effect, isn't it, mate? Kelly Molson: Isn't it? Maybe I should talk louder. Yeah, I'm really gobsmacked at it. What was really interesting, though, about it, I mean, it's a shocking stat in itself, but what we did this year with the report is that we asked attractions to kind of self-score their website. So we asked them what they felt their design scored in terms of design, so they could give it a one to ten score. So we asked them to do the same about different areas of their site, and one was mobile optimisation. So 31% gave their site a score of nine out of ten for it, and 24% gave their site an eight out of ten. Paul Marden: They think it's pretty good. Kelly Molson: Yes, and this is the problem. So they think it's good. That indicates that those scores are based on internal assumptions, not potentially not tangible user centred data, because they haven't asked the people to test that their mobile sites are a nine out of ten or an eight out of ten. So I just thought that was really interesting, that a lot of your judgement can be based on your assumptions rather than actually asking the people that are using it. So yeah, I think that's really important that people do that. Paul Marden: I was looking at some stuff that was related to this, but not the same area of the stats that you were looking at there. So I looked at how many of the group actually did any user testing on their site. Okay. And obviously that's a really in comparison to other stats where there's a big wide disparity between different sorts of people. The vast bulk of people reported that they weren't doing any user testing, but the ones that did, all sat in the top range of conversion rate. I'm not saying that one causes the other, but there is a strong relationship between the group of people that are user testing their sites. And all of that group of people also had a conversion rate right in the top of our data set, and that ranged in size as well. Paul Marden: So we're not just talking about the big brands that are doing this. And when you looked at that set of data, there was a big brand in there. Everybody would know it. There was quite a few big brands that weren't in there. So for me, they were conspicuous by their absence because I'd seen them elsewhere in the data set that had been reported. But there was a small brand in there as well, a small organisation. I'd not heard of them before. They had between 5 to 10,000 transactions a year, which in comparison to the people at the top end of the scale, that's at least an order of magnitude smaller organisation. But they were reporting that they were doing user testing and they had a conversion rate right up there in the top end of our data set. Paul Marden: Even more surprisingly, of those that have done user testing specifically on mobile was a very small percent. And this bit you will be pleased about because some people are listening to you, that consisted of a very high proportion of Rubber Cheese clients were in that set of people who were doing user testing specifically on their mobile experience.Kelly Molson: Yay. Yay, Rubber Cheese clients!Paul Marden: Somebody is listening to you. Kelly Molson: High five to all of you lovely people. Yes. So it's interesting, isn't it? Because user testing for me, so we talk a lot about marginal gains at Rubber Cheese, about trying to make something that 1% better, 1% better, 1% better. And the only way you can actually do that is by doing user testing because you just don't know what to make better. You don't know where people are finding those barriers, you don't know where people are maybe confused about something or being blocked by something as well. For me, it's the number one thing to do if you want to start making those tiny adjustments that will start to then have those incremental and larger effects later on down the line. Paul Marden: I think it's so difficult to put yourself into the head of that person that knows nothing. We all come to the party if we run the testing, whether it's us at the attraction or us as the agency. We come to the party with lots and lots of knowledge that the average person that comes to the site and just doesn't have. And it's really hard to put yourself into that position and the solution to that is getting them to do the testing for you. Kelly Molson: Yeah. And when it comes to testing, I think I kind of split it into two. Because for mean I've said this before, but most of my browsing or purchasing is done in a very short window of time in front of the telly when I'm supposed to be watching something that Lee and I have decided that is the one thing that we can watch with the hour of telly time that we get together each day. But actually I'll be trying to watch that whilst also doing ten other things on my phone and I'll split it into browsing and purchasing and most of that happens between about 9:00 and 10:00 for me at night and it will always be on my phone. Do not make me go, I'm not going to go back into my office and crack open my laptop at that time. Kelly Molson: So everything has to be on my phone. I'm really time poor, clearly. So page load speed for me is really important. If I'm trying to find something, I need to find it quickly. I want to read something that's engaging, but not at the expense of not being able to load that page that I want to read. So things like compressing your images is really important. This is a difficult one when it comes to video is that I love video. I think there is nothing more engaging than video on your website, especially if you're a visit attraction to sell that experience. But lose the video on mobile or reduce it, reduce it, reduce it down because that's going to wipe out a load of bandwidth speed and it's going to make your page loads really small. Paul Marden: I've got beef about it in terms of it's autoplay video. It's not an environmentally sustainable thing to do. We don't often think about the environmental impact of websites but it's right up there in terms of industry generating CO2 emissions and it's not the main cause of it, but it's one area where this is prevalent is in the use of autoplay video on homepage. The website. People go to the site, the video plays whether they want to watch the video or not and that is just burning through bandwidth which is ultimately generating CO2. So I'm not anti video. I think video is an amazing thing and as you say, it can really engage you. I sat this morning talking about engaging video to try and get people to want to love the attraction to a client. So I'm totally for it. Paul Marden: But it should be something that user opt into, not something that autoplays for them. Kelly Molson: Yeah, I agree. And content as well. So we know that people read content online differently than they do in a book or a magazine or a newspaper for example, but actually they read it differently than they do on desktop to mobile too. So you actually need to think about if a certain article you have or a blog or event or whatever it may be, is going to sit in the demographic of people like me who is a 45 year old woman with toddler has 1 hour in front of the telly a day to do all of her purchashing and scrolling and anything else she needs to do on her phone. Paul Marden: Superheroes you make. Kelly Molson: Where is my cape? That content really needs to appeal to them and it needs to be in the shortest form possible because I don't have the time to read all of the engaging content. I just don't. So you need to kind of think about, is your content formatted differently when it's from desktop to mobile as well? And then when it comes to purchasing this one's, a little bit trickier for attractions, I think, and there's lots of different reasons for it. We're probably going to talk a little bit longer about this one, but the number one thing that we're always asked to review on attraction websites is that booking journey. And the thing is, we can only do the review of it if that booking journey is owned by the attraction. Kelly Molson: What I mean is if it's been designed and you are integrating with your booking system via API, so your agency or your internal team have designed that journey up to the point of you know, the tickets in the basket and gone. If you're using a third party system, an off the shelf ticketing platform that isn't integrated via API, there's not a lot that we can do about of once a guest is into the purchasing journey, they're with that system. The things that you can think about if you are going to go down the design and at your own route, you need to think about big buttons, you need to think about less clutter. I want arrows, don't make me type stuff into small form, free form boxes on mobile. You just need to be able to select things really quickly and clearly. Kelly Molson: So you want to kind of just strip out all of the noise and just get people to focus on the one thing that you want them to do, which is go through that journey and buy that ticket. What was interesting in the stats that came out of the report is that 75% of the respondents to it still expect customers to complete more than five steps to purchase, which hasn't changed from last year, that's similar to last year. And again, the reasons you might not be able to control that, you might be unable to control that because of the system that you use. So this is a really challenging one, but if you can reduce it, you can actually make some quite significant financial gains. So you looked at the impact of bookings on conversion rate, which is quite significant. Paul Marden: I got really excited working this number out. I reckon these numbers are conservative as well because these are on the basis of ticket prices and lost ticket sales. For me, I think this number could be higher for most attractions because the value of somebody coming to an attraction is bigger than just their ticket price. We talked about this the other day when were chatting. When you go there's, the meal that you eat, there's the gifts that you buy when you leave. So the total cost of somebody arriving at the attraction is probably higher than I'm estimating here. But using some stats on what the fall off rate is in ecommerce transactions, we've worked out that each step that you add to your checkout flow, it costs. Paul Marden: For our average attraction in our data set that we reckon it costs about 8000 pounds a year in lost sales. And for our top performing attractions it could be worth in the range of a quarter of a million pound a year in lost sales for each step that is included in their checkout flow. You think if you're in one of those top performing attractions with five steps, a quarter of a million pound in lost sales just in year one, that's a lot of developer time that you could buy to simplify your checkout workflow, isn't it? The return on investment for that, for a big organisation of simplifying your checkout workflow I think could be huge. Kelly Molson: Yeah, it could. There's so many other factors to think about. We have clients that have API integrations, we have clients that use off the shelf booking systems. In one way, I've always been really in the corner of designing and owning your own booking journey, but you have to be realistic about what that puts on the organisation as well, and what size your organisation is, whether you have the internal team to be able to manage that, the infrastructure to be able to manage that as well. Paul Marden: There's a total cost of ownership issue, isn't there, that is beyond just the buying price of the website in the first place. You've got to be able to maintain the thing going forward, haven't you, and that's pricy. Kelly Molson: Yeah, absolutely. But I think if you are thinking about your booking systems at the moment, then having the conversations with the providers about what their mobile journeys look like, ask to get them to demo it on mobile so you can see it for yourself. And ask them what the roadmap is in terms of mobile optimisation for the booking journeys as well. So just go into these conversations with those thoughts in mind so that you can get an understanding of what that looks like. And if their purchasing journey is six steps at the minute, ask them what are your plans to reduce that to five steps and how could we work with you to make that happen? That could start to take those conversations in some really positive ways. Paul Marden: Honestly, this stat, I'm going to sound like such a nerd, but this stat has stuck in my head ever since we worked this one out. And I can't get out of my head what the impact is of the lost opportunity, the lost sales that are happening because of these steps. And I've been thinking, what is the absolute barest minimum? Because lots of attractions, when they're going through their buying journey, I'm thinking, what on earth do you need to ask me? This is a rhetorical question, by the way. I know the complexity that is going into a lot of these things, I do understand it, but why is it that you actually need to ask me to take these five steps to get through, to get me to actually part with my money? Paul Marden: And I've been thinking about, for me, what is the absolute barest minimum you could get away with asking? Well, there's no way that you can affect a payment card transaction without knowing the card details. So you've got to ask the card number, the postcode, the CDC number and the surname of the person holding the card. So you have to have those. And if we can't give the ticket to somebody, we've got to have a mechanism getting the ticket to them, so we need their email address. Those five things are the absolute barest things I could get away with. But of course, that would only sell you, could only sell an undated, untimed ticket with that. Paul Marden: And I've been thinking about this back in COVID, so COVID and lockdown, and then the gradual release of lockdown was what introduced for many attractions, timed and dated tickets, wasn't it? And that was a complete transformation because we had limited capacity, we needed to make sure that we didn't oversell that capacity and create a problem at the gate. But is it necessary now? I completely understand that there's lots of benefit to the attraction, to guest services and people like that, of knowing exactly how many people are coming into the attraction and being able to metre that. But I wonder what impact having timed tickets and dated tickets is having on the number of people that give up buying because there's just too many steps in the process. "I can't be bothered with this. I'm going to not do it."Kelly Molson: This is quite controversial.Paul Marden: Isn't it? Completely. And I'm thinking back to that podcast episode that you did with Roman Baths where you were talking about variable pricing and dynamic pricing and of course you can only do those things if you have dated and timed tickets. So if nothing else, there is a creative tension there, isn't there, between if I ask the absolute barest minimum, I will sell more tickets, versus if I date and time my tickets and I could be really flexible about my pricing. Everybody wants lots and lots of information because who wouldn't want all the information you could possibly get about your customers versus the more I ask, the less people will buy. Harsh, isn't it? Kelly Molson: Yeah. I'm in the camp of pre booking as well, so this is uncomfortable for me. I'm in the camp of pre booking and I don't mind time ticketing either. I think there is absolutely a place for it and I think for organisations, for attractions, it just makes their life so much simpler. Paul Marden: Completely agreed with you. But I guess there's this at one end of the scale, you've got the absolute barest minimum that you could ask that will get more people, take their money, take money off of people and get them through the checkout flow as fast as you possibly can. Versus if there's two ends to this spectrum and both make us both feel uncomfortable, Where's the middle ground? Do you need to know where my address is? You don't need my address to be able to sell me a ticket. You need to know my postcode so you can do the credit card transaction, but you don't need my whole address to do that. So maybe that's where the compromise sits. That doesn't make either of us feel uncomfortable. Kelly Molson: Maybe. I always think there's a way to get more data out of people at a later stage as well, if you really want it. And maybe that's something that we need to look at in a different episode, is that you don't have to ask for all of these things at the point of purchase, but you can ask for more stuff afterwards as well if you're really engaging with that audience. Paul Marden: There's also one more thing just on that point, there were tools that could simplify this as well. Because if you have a clever use of Apple Pay or Google Pay, both of those checkout flows, people have all of their personal information plugged into Apple Pay, so you don't need to ask me anything about me. If you have a clever checkout flow with Apple Pay, then you could take my money and then get my personal information from Apple rather than make me having to type it all in. How much easier does that make the process?Kelly Molson: When I posted about this on LinkedIn, it must have been a couple of months ago now, and I asked people what their biggest frustrations was with booking journeys. They said lack of Apple Pay. They said it's a necessity for people. They don't want to think about their details. They don't know their card details. They haven't gotten again, they're sitting on the sofa like I am, their cards are upstairs. They're not going to get off their bums and go and get their cards. That was the number one thing that kept coming up over and over again. And then the second one was around clear and consistent pricing so that they don't feel like they're being ripped off as the deeper they get into that journey. So that's two really interesting things to think about there. Kelly Molson: On these episodes, we often highlight people that are doing it. Well, we've decided not to do it in this episode. And there's a couple of reasons for that, is that it's really hard to compare between people that have an API integrated designed booking journey and people that are using off the shelf systems. And there will be very specific reasons for why they have chosen to go down either of those routes. And you can't compare them because the reasons are uncomparable, I feel. So we've decided just to take that step out for today, but we are going to talk about what next steps that you can take. So I think the first one is going back to what you've just referenced is thinking about what information you actually really need from the customer. Paul Marden: Yeah, if you ask less, you'll need less steps. The less steps, the more people will make it through the checkout site. Kelly Molson: So what can you remove and maybe what could you add in later in addition to that. Paul Marden: Completely. Kelly Molson: And then test on mobile. Test again. Didn't I end last episode with saying just test, test on mobile regularly, but go through the entire process from start to finish.Paul Marden: And then the fix the stuff that doesn't work. So I had an interesting conversation when were at Theme Park Awards with another podcast alumni. We were chatting about prepping for the report and where were going and what were doing and all that kind of thing. And he told me a story about a site, fairly large attraction, where when you try and check out the only way if you're doing it on mobile, you can't select the number of tickets when you hold your mobile up. Now, the attraction has tested, they know it because they've written a message at the top of the page and it says to be able to book your tickets, rotate your phone to the side and then you get the ability to be able to choose your numbers. Paul Marden: So great, they're doing some testing, but how many people don't bother reading that message, how many people are stymied by the idea that, "Oh, well, I can't choose the number of tickets?" Not only have you got to test it, you got to fix the stuff that doesn't work as well. Kelly Molson: Yeah, gosh, how frustrating is that? And is that the system that they're using? So they've got no control over it. And if that is the system that they're using, then they didn't get them to demo it on mobile, did they, when they purchased it? Paul Marden: I think it's a combination of the two. I think there was something very special about the ticket descriptions of that attraction. That meant that they wrote quite a lot in the descriptions and when you wrote quite a lot in the ticket description, it just overflows off the side of your mobile, unless you've got a massive tablet. Or you rotate it on the side. Kelly Molson: Yeah, it's not great. Asking them to do something that they're not expecting to have to do is challenging, isn't it, asking all your users to think, well, they don't want to think either. They don't want to think at that point. They just want to do the doing. Okay, what kind of budget are we looking at for some of these things? It's really difficult to say.Paul Marden: Yeah, as you've just said, or to remove steps out of the checkout flow. It could be impossible for many people, because if they have an off the shelf ticketing system that they call out to that they don't have control over, then they might not be able to do anything about that. I mean, don't get me wrong, there's lots of things with those off the shelf ticketing solutions. Many of them are very flexible about the steps that you take through the checkout flow. So it can be very highly configurable and it could be in their control to just take it out without any need for developers doing things. It could just be a case of how do they use their third party ticketing system and changing that slightly. Paul Marden: So it could be possible, or it could be something very practical that they could do themselves. Kelly Molson: It's worth saying that we as an organisation have lots of conversations with lots of the ticketing providers and they are very aware of improvements that can be made or would like to be made to this. Kelly Molson: So I think that there's definitely a movement in the ticketing world of acknowledging that this is challenge and knowing that they can do something about it. And I know that there are a few that have got kind of plans to make change in this area as well. So that's great to see.Paul Marden: It's a really competitive space, isn't it? So it's interesting to see how that's going to play out. Kelly Molson: Yeah, very much so. Okay, well, look, listeners, this is us for another month. What we'd really like, though, is to understand what you'd like to hear from us. So we've got loads more topics that we can talk about from the report. We have got loads of things that come up on day to day basis, things that we work on that we can talk about. But if there's anything that you would like us to discuss, any questions that you'd like to ask us, we can happily make those into a podcast episode. So send me an email. It's kelly@rubbercheese.com. Just let me know what you're having challenges with. Yeah, any questions that you just would like us to cover as a topic and we can make that happen. Paul Marden: Awesome. I'd love to. I'm enjoying it. Kelly Molson: Me too. It's lovely to have a fellow guest. Fellow host.Paul Marden: I just got downgraded then.  Kelly Molson: Who's the real host? Me, of course. It's lovely to be joined by a second host. Thank you, Paul. See you next month. Paul Marden: Bye. Bye. Kelly Molson:  Thanks for listening to Skip The Queue. If you've enjoyed this podcast, please leave us a five star review. It really helps others find us. And remember to follow us on Twitter for your chance to win the books that have been mentioned. Skip the queue is brought to you by Rubber Cheese, a digital agency that builds remarkable systems and websites for attractions that helps them increase their visitor numbers. You can find show notes and transcriptions from this episode and more over on our website, rubbercheese.com/podcast.

Everyone takes a bath now and then, but how did the Romans do it without special soaps and shampoos and all the things we take for granted? Jacob Dumas takes into the Roman baths and shows us how the Romans cleaned up.

Skip the Queue is brought to you by Rubber Cheese, a digital agency that builds remarkable systems and websites for attractions that helps them increase their visitor numbers. Your host is  Kelly Molson, Founder of Rubber Cheese.Download the Rubber Cheese 2022 Visitor Attraction Website Report - the first digital benchmark statistics for the attractions sector.If you like what you hear, you can subscribe on iTunes, Spotify, and all the usual channels by searching Skip the Queue or visit our website rubbercheese.com/podcast.If you've enjoyed this podcast, please leave us a five star review, it really helps others find us. Show references: https://carbonsix.digital/https://www.linkedin.com/in/pmarden/Paul Marden is the Founder and Managing Director of Carbon Six Digital and the CEO of Rubber Cheese. He is an Umbraco Certified Master who likes to think outside the box, often coming up with creative technical solutions that clients didn't know were possible. Paul oversees business development and technical delivery, specialising in Microsoft technologies including Umbraco CMS, ASP.NET, C#, WebApi, and SQL Server. He's worked in the industry since 1999 and has vast experience of managing and delivering the technical architecture for both agencies and client side projects of all shapes and sizes. Paul is an advocate for solid project delivery and has a BCS Foundation Certificate in Agile. https://www.rubbercheese.com/https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellymolson/Kelly Molson is the Founder of Rubber Cheese, a user focused web design and development agency for the attraction sector. Digital partners to Eureka! The National Children's Museum, Pensthorpe, National Parks UK, Holkham, Visit Cambridge and The National Marine Aquarium.Kelly regularly delivers workshops and presentations on sector focused topics at national conferences and attraction sector organisations including ASVA, ALVA, The Ticketing Professionals Conference and the Museum + Heritage Show.As host of the popular Skip the Queue Podcast for people working in or working with visitor attractions, she speaks with inspiring industry experts who share their knowledge of what really makes an attraction successful.Recent trustee of The Museum of the Broads. Transcription:  Kelly Molson: Welcome to Skip The Queue, a podcast for people working in or working with visitor attractions. I'm your host, Kelly Molson.In this new monthly slot, Rubber Cheese CEO Paul Marden joins me to discuss different digital related topics.In this episode, we're talking about the impact of design, navigation and content on selling tickets and how to go about testing if your design is working or not.If you like what you hear, you can subscribe on all the usual channels by searching Skip The Queue.Kelly Molson:  We're doing something a little bit different on the podcast this season. So alongside the usual guest interviews, which we'll have each month, me and the Rubber Cheese CEO, Paul Marden are also going to be recording an episode on a different digital related topic. So we're going to do this once a month. Kelly Molson: Each of the episodes, we're going to share insight around design, user experience, content, accessibility, SEO and loads, loads more. We're going to talk a little bit about what's possible, give you some ideas about how easy or how hard that topic is to implement.Kelly Molson: Maybe what kind of budget that you might need to look at and what some of the next steps are to take if you want to implement some of these things. We're even going to call out some of the best in breed websites, people that are doing things really well within the sector.Kelly Molson:  So I've been hosting the Skip the Queue podcast since July 2019. Goodness, that's been a long time. Five seasons in now. This is season five. You all know me already. So I am the founder of Rubber Cheese and my background is in design. Kelly Molson: I co founded Rubber Cheese back in 2003 after learning about ecommerce when I worked at a very early kind of Shopify type startup agency. The person that you don't know quite as well as me is my fellow host on this podcast. That's funny to say, that my fellow host is Paul Marden. So. Paul. Hello. Welcome. Paul Marden: Hello. Kelly Molson: This is strange. I'm going to have to share the spotlight for a while, that's very uncomfortable for me. No, it will be fine."It will be fine", she says. Paul, I would love it if you could give us a little intro to yourself. Kelly Molson: I know your background and I know you very well. We've known each other for about, I think it's about 14 years now. It's been a long time, hasn't it?Paul Marden: Yeah. Not long after I started doing this as a proper job. Kelly Molson: Well, there you go. Tell us about what your proper job is. Paul Marden: Yeah, so I'm the CEO of Rubber Cheese now, alongside another agency that I run called Carbon Six, which we merged Carbon Six and Rubber Cheese just over a year ago. My background is as a geek. I'm a developer by training. I started out ten years at British Airways, all over the airline, doing all different sorts of IT related jobs. So I saw lots of operational side of things, commercial sides of the airline, say, selling tickets, that kind of thing. I don't know if I've told you, but my first visitor attraction job was a long time ago, because when I was at Uni, I did a placement at the National Botanic Garden of Wales when it first opened. So I was there when it was a hole in the ground and I helped them write their IT strategy. Paul Marden: So my visitor attraction experience predates my involvement in Rubber Cheese. Kelly Molson: I did not know that. So you've done geek stuff for attractions. Paul Marden: For a long time. Yeah, it was amazing. I can still remember I was in an office in a farmhouse as they were building the giant glass house. It was just the most amazing place and I've not been back for a long time. It would be amazing to go and see the place, how it's transformed in the, what is it, 24 years since I was there? God, I really sound old now, don't I? Kelly Molson: You do sound old. I'm just wondering if they still use the IT plan that you put in place for them. Paul Marden: Probably not. I was only a student at the time. It can't have been amazing. Kelly Molson: So what we normally do on the podcast, listeners, as you well know, is I ask my guests a series of uncomfortable questions, icebreaker questions, which they very graciously answer beautifully for me. We're not going to do that on this episode. Ha. So we thought, yeah, Paul has wiped his brow in a state of relief there. But what we thought we would do is Paul and I both visit a lot of visitor attractions, both professionally and in our personal life as well. We've both got daughters at very different ages, so Millie is  coming up for I think, 9.Paul Marden: 10 in two weeks' time. Kelly Molson: Okay. And my little one is 2. So we're going to very different visitor attractions right now. But we thought we would talk about the attraction that we visited most recently and what we loved about it, and we thought we'd ask each other that question. So I am going to ask you that question first, Paul. What attraction have you visited most recently and what did you love about it? Paul Marden: So we just finished the summer holidays, so went away for just over a week to the Netherlands. We did visit a few different attractions whilst were there, but went to an amazing place. We went back to it, actually, it was one that we've been to before called Burger's Zoo. So I loved the whole experience of going there the first time around and we wanted to go back there. It's an amazing place. But the reason why I was going to call it out today was a conversation that we've been having and something that we've done with Kitten Museums in terms of the food offering. Because when you go to Burger's Zoo, the restaurant is amazing. We've talked recently about the sorts of food that you get at visitor attractions and your frustration around this. Lots of fried food. Paul Marden: There's never any healthy food. So went to Burger Zoo, we had lunch and of course, there'd be obligatory portion of chips there if you want to have it. Lots of kids food there, but I was able to have a massive great salad. It was in enormous and it was lovely and healthy and really enjoyable and it didn't cost the earth when you were there. And it's so unusual to talk about going to an attraction and getting that kind of quality of food without spending the earth in doing it. So, yeah, that was pretty cool. Kelly Molson: That is cool. This is probably a whole another podcast episode to talk about that. I think actually, in your intro, you forgot to mention that you are a Trustee for the Kids in Museums, which is quite a new role for you, isn't it? But it's one that kind of immersed you into the world of attraction. I think that's been a good one for you. They have set up a brilliant scheme, which is kind of an accreditation scheme for attractions to go through, just to check into how healthy and how great their food offering actually is, which I think is brilliant. It's really weird. Kelly Molson: The day that they launched it, I was having a like, literally the day before, I was having a conversation on LinkedIn about how atrocious the food offering had been at an attraction that I went to, which is one of the top ten most visited attractions in the UK. It's a great place. It really is a brilliant place, especially if you've got toddler. However, the food was pretty horrendous and I've got an unusual toddler in that. Well, she will eat chips now, she will eat chippies, but she won't eat fried stuff or battered things or anything like that. She's just not interested.Paul Marden: Nothing beige.Kelly Molson: Not really, even pasta has to be, she should have been an Italian, she should have seen the amount of pasta that she wolf down when were over there. But it's got to be good. Kelly Molson: It's got to be good. Yeah, she is particularly fussy toddler. But just for myself, I mean, just the range of food that was available that day was just dreadful. I mean, the healthiest thing that was on the menu that Lee and I both had was jacket potatoes and I think I took a picture of it somewhere and it was too awful to put on social media. So, yes, that is well needed and I'm glad that attraction stood out on the food front for you. Paul Marden: What about you? Where have you been recently? Kelly Molson: I've been to lots of different places recently, but this one I can't stop thinking about and so I want to talk about it today and it's not one that I visited with Edie. It's one that I visited with a fellow attractions professional a little while ago, but it's the Beamish Living Museum. I honestly can't stop thinking about it. It's the first living museum that I've been to, so it's the first experience of that for me. And I had such an emotional reaction to it. I'm a bit embarrassed, actually. So I went to meet a couple of people. I met one person that I'd met briefly at a conference before, and then I met one of their colleagues who I'd never met before in my life. And I actually had a bit of a cry to this colleague because it was so emotive. Kelly Molson: If anyone who hasn't been to Beamish Living Museum, there's lots of different areas that you can visit, and one of them is a 1950s area and they essentially recreate what it was like in the 1950s, where the museum is located. And it brought back so many memories of my grandparents, both sets of grandparents, for different reasons. The house was very similar to my grandparents on my father's side and just down to some of the things that they had in that space. And I just got overwhelmed by it. It was so wonderful to go back and see that. And in my head all the time I was thinking, well, both my sets of grandparents are no longer with us. They passed away when I was in my early twenties. And so Edie will never get to meet her great grandparents on that side. And I thought, God, how amazing would it be for me to bring here and say, show her some of the things that great granny used to have in her house and yeah, just lost it. Paul Marden:  It's interesting, isn't it, that you can become so immersed that even now the emotional attachment that you've built when you were there takes you straight back there. Because there's a risk, isn't there, with those sorts of places of it feeling a little bit plastic and fake, isn't it? But this clearly had an emotional impact on you. Kelly Molson: Yeah, I think for me, I was worried that it would be people in costumes. It would feel like that. And it did not feel like that at all. It just felt so authentic. Anyway, you've got to go. I don't want to cry for the rest of this podcast, but yeah, it's definitely a must visit for me, it was something really special. Paul Marden: Excellent. Kelly Molson: Should we move on to what we're going to talk about? And I'll compose myself, shall we?Paul Marden: Okay, moving swiftly on.Kelly Molson: Let's. So in this episode, we're going to talk about the impact of design, navigation and content on selling tickets and how we go about testing if it's working or not. So this episode actually launches on the 4th of October, which is one day after we release the 2023 Visitor Attraction website report. There's data that has come out of this year's report that is so insightful and I cannot wait for everybody to get this year's report. It dives deeper into a lot of the topics that we talked about in the first report last year, but there's just so much more to it and I'm very excited about it.Kelly Molson: Anyway, looking at the data from the report, a 100% of the attractions that took part think that having consistent design and clear navigation is important, which is brilliant. Big tick there. However, many of them don't think that their site meets the need and some of them think it does, but they don't test that it does. There's some really interesting stats about testing that we're going to talk about in a minute that have actually blew my mind a little bit. But one good stat around the design is that 76% of respondents believe that their websites were consistently designed despite using multiple platforms in their customer journey. Kelly Molson: And this is something that we talked about quite frequently in that sometimes there's a big disconnect if you are using if you've got your website that's built and designed in WordPress for example, and then you've got your ticketing platform and the two don't look like each other, they're not consistent, they're incongruent. That can be a bit of a challenge for people in terms of trust and how they feel about your brand. Paul Marden: It can be a jarring experience, can't it? Kelly Molson: Yeah, absolutely. Responses this year once again saw that websites that look good and are easy to use are doing far better than those that don't prioritise consistency. So I'm just going to read out this snippet from the report. We saw that websites that were high scoring for their design and navigation made more sales over the past twelve months. So those successful websites had around 200,000 to 500,000 completed transactions. Whereas on the other hand, websites with lower design and navigation scores didn't do as well, stating that they had below 50,000 completed transactions in the last month. That's quite fascinating, isn't it? Paul Marden: It is. This is not just a handful of people that are answering, is it? Because there's a large number of people that are answering that this is important to them and that they think they're doing quite well. And then you see how their perception of doing well correlates really strongly with the actual outcomes of the site itself. Kelly Molson: Yeah, I think that the way that we asked the questions this year is interesting as well. So when I talked then about we said that websites that were high scoring for design and navigation, we gave respondents the options to score their website. So we gave them how well designed do you think your site is? Between 1 and 10, 10 being the highest. So we allowed them to kind of self score. But it's interesting because some of those self scores don't correlate to the data that we then took. So those scores, they're based mostly on assumption, which is always a difficult, challenging place to be. But I think, Paul, you had some insight here around the conversion rate and design and how they tally up. Paul Marden: So the stats you just talked about were about the volume of transactions. You could say that having good design leads you to have more transactions flowing through your website, but you could also say that the organisations that have more transactions flowing through their website can afford to spend more money on design. But what I found interesting was that when you ignore the absolute number of sales that they make on the website, if you actually look at what their conversion rate is on the website, the attractions who think they have good design tend to have a higher conversion rate by about 1% or 2%. Now, that could be on a low base. Paul Marden: There could be a fairly small attraction that has fewer people coming to it, but they still perform relatively better than those attractions that didn't think they had good design but could be massive organisations with large numbers of transactions flowing through. And what I found interesting is we started to work out what is the value of 1 or 2% extra conversion rate, because it doesn't sound like much. Really. There's somebody in the business that doesn't necessarily understand the technology side of it that doesn't sound like a lot. So we started playing with converting that into money. What could that actually be worth? So we played around with we tried to model what is our average attraction and what is the absolute top performing attraction. Paul Marden: And even for our average, an increase of 1% in conversion rate could mean tens of thousands of pounds of extra sales that they make. But for the top performing attraction, it could make the difference of hundreds of thousands of pounds of extra sales just by squeezing 1 or 2% of extra conversion rate out. I think that's absolute gold dust in terms of insight that we've drawn out of this data. The organisations that think they have good design tend to have a conversion rate of 1 or 2% more, which could equate to tens of hundreds of thousands of pounds of extra sales that they make. It makes you begin to think that investment in the design of the site could actually be really worthwhile. Kelly Molson: Absolutely. And information like that helps the marketing managers build the case for good design and investing in good design. Paul Marden: Yeah. And before you say, "Oh, the large organisations with the big budgets, they can afford to do this, what about the small ones?" The smaller organisations with small budgets who had good navigation tended to be the ones that would have the better conversion rate amongst their peers. So you don't need to be a nationally recognised attraction brand to be able to invest an appropriate amount of money in design and get a return on that investment that you make. Kelly Molson: I always think that the best use of budget is on the pre planning side, which is unusual coming from a designer, I think. Yeah.  But Paul, you're really data driven, aren't you? You're super data driven. Paul Marden: Such a geek. Kelly Molson: Yeah, you are a massive geek. Massive nerd. We're very complimentary, but I never used to be very data driven. I was always far more visual driven. But actually well, I'm not going to share it on this podcast, actually, because I'm going to share it at a talk that I'm given. But I've got a really good story around why user testing is very important. We'll come a bit more onto that later. And why you should be driven by the data and the stats and not just by what something looks like. Okay, let's talk about navigation quickly as part of this design section. So it's really interesting. So we've actually got some findings from the Journal of Market Research. Kelly Molson: So they state that, when websites are easy to understand and navigate, individuals have a lower cognitive load, so fewer things to work out, and therefore are more likely to have a positive experience to go on to purchase. So having a consistent and well designed website can really help people make complete purchases with your visitor attraction. What I've always said, it's about trying to stop making people think, give them something that is really easy. So I think when we worked with Eureka!, and this is back in 2016, when we first worked with them, we did some research around what people wanted to find out about attractions, what were the first things they needed to know about. And it was literally, when you open, how much do you cost? How can I get there? Kelly Molson: So, if they're the three things that people desperately need to know, they're the three things that really need to be highlighted front and centre when you arrive at the site, wherever you arrive at it, whether that's the homepage or what. And it's the same with navigation. People need to understand where they're being taken and why they're being taken to certain places. So we're working with an attraction at the moment, we've just about to start work with them. They have got some really key, really strong elements to their Nav, but then they've got an area that says more, and there's a load of stuff that's been added onto the more section, and things like this happen over time. Kelly Molson: When you've got a website, people will say, “I need this to be featured on the site, I need this page to put up there”, and it gets added to, and ultimately you end up with all these things that haven't been thought about from the start, about where they're supposed to go. So they get kind of bundled somewhere, and a more section kind of feels an obvious place to put them. But what is it? Users don't understand what's in there. And they're not going to go searching for hours to find something that they want. They need to find it quickly. And so that for me, is a huge no about bundling stuff into these kind of sections. That just so ambiguous, you don't know what they are. Paul Marden: I think that figuring out what people are trying to do, what are they trying to get out of the website? I think that bundling exercise, putting lots of things onto the site that happened over time or putting it in a bucket of more is often there's so many people in an organisation that want their content heard and seen, don't they? Everybody wants their content on the site. It all goes on there. And sometimes you have to step back and think, what's the point? Who is it that's coming to the site and what are we trying to get them to do? We want the customer at the end of it to think, now that you've read this, what are you going to do next? But we don't always think about that journey. Paul Marden: We think about the snippets of information that we put onto the site, but we don't think about what the journey is they're going through. Attractions are really lucky. I think a lot of the people that go to their sites are really motivated to buy, a lot more motivated to buy than the average ecommerce site. So how do you get out of the way of those people so they can just buy stuff? And then for the people that are less motivated, they don't necessarily want to know how, when and how much they still want to be sold on the idea of going to the attraction, then maybe you need to give them more information. Paul Marden: But identifying who those people are and giving them a journey to go through and coming up with a navigation that makes it really easy for those people to navigate along that journey, there's a lot of psychology that's hard. That's your prep work, isn't it, before you do the design? Kelly Molson: Yeah, and it's the hardest part of it. And I think that's where the most amount of time needs to be spent there and the wireframes really, the design. If you've got good brand guidelines in place, the design ultimately becomes a simplified process at that point. But the pre design work is really where the time and effort needs to be spent. And I think it is a challenge for attractions. So there are attractions that are, if you compare a Chessington World of Adventures, for example, a theme park orientated to a historic museum that you're coming to visit, that not only is an attraction, but obviously has a lot of historical information to share and learning and education plays a big part in them as well. You have different audiences for those. Kelly Molson: So I think one part of that process is you need to think about all the different audiences you have and what are their motivations for visiting the site and what do you want them to do, what actions do you want them to take? But I think when you are working, this has gone off a bit of a tangent, but when you're working with an agency, I think what's really core for the attraction is to make sure that you've got key stakeholders from each of those areas of your attraction that play a part in those early conversations. So you don't want the site redesign to be driven solely by the marketing team for the attraction side. You need someone from the education side to be part of those conversations as well. Kelly Molson: You need visitor experience to be part of those conversations because if you're planning content, each of those individuals will have a different need for what content they need to showcase on the site. So they all need to be talking to each other about how that's going to look. I'm talking from experience because this has not happened in the past. Paul's nodding his head at me because he knows that we've had this challenge previously.Paul Marden: Yeah. Kelly Molson: So yeah, and I think that kind of leads us nicely onto content, really, and about the need to frequently update your site and keep it refreshed. So once you've done all of that hard work of working out what content is going to be on it doesn't stay static. So in the report we have a stat that says 31% of respondents said that they updated their online content multiple times a week. That's good. Another 31% said that they did so at least once a month. Good. However, 22% of respondents said they had infrequent content updates or didn't update their content at all. Not updating your content at all. Paul Marden: That surprised me, that one. Yeah, I was surprised that there were 31% of respondents updated it multiple times a week. I was really impressed by that. Yeah. That takes some work, doesn't it? To be able to produce that level of content change, but to do it infrequently or not at all, that surprised me. Kelly Molson: I guess it depends on the attraction and what their offering is as well. Thinking about one of our clients, Holkham actually, so we know that Holkham update their website frequently. They have a lot of different events, they write a lot of really incredible content about what happens across Holkham Estate. So they're engaging with the audience from the perspective of someone coming to visit and what they can do on the day and what they can come and see. But they're also talking about their wider sustainability efforts across the state and what they do and how they focus on that, which again, might be for that same audience. Might be for a slightly different audience as well. Kelly Molson: So the volume of content that they produce is a lot higher than potentially Thorpe Park as a visitor, they will talk about what's on that day and maybe an events that they're running, but they might not talk about the same things that are going on across the Estate that Holkham would, for example. So I think, yeah, it's what your attraction offers. Paul Marden: Holkham's a really good example because they can take inspiration from the place. They're very diverse, they've got lots of different things that they do at that location. It's quite a large location, but there's lots of different things going on and those things are inside and outside. They can take inspiration from the season. So there's a lot of inspiration that you can take there and produce. Just off the top of my head, I could think of lots of different stories that you could tell and changes to the site that can be inspired by the season. But then I think about a theme park where there's lots that goes on. I think I've done lots of trips to Legoland. There's Legoland at Halloween. There's Legoland in Spring time. It changes through the seasons and there's a lot of story around that. Paul Marden: I wonder if you're an indoor attraction, if you're Heritage Museum based, there's going to be lots of stories that you can tell about the items that you've got in your collection. But it might be harder to tell those stories influenced by the seasons, which can be a real driver for telling varying stories throughout a year, can't they? Yeah, but I don't write a lot of stories for those sorts of organisations, so maybe I don't have the right view of the world, but I would imagine it would be a lot harder to write lots of content varying through the year for that sort of organisation. Kelly Molson: Yes, probably so I'm just thinking about it would just be a change in topic, wouldn't it? So I know Blackpool Pleasure Beach, who Andy Hygate, the Operations Director, came on the podcast a couple of seasons ago, actually, and he talked about the experiences they've developed around walking up the big one and the rise that they have there. And actually, I think for people that are interested in theme parks, there's probably a lot of content around how things are built and how they're developed and that kind of side of stuff that people would be really interested in. So it's not talking about seasonal stuff, it's about the things and how they're constructed and how they're designed and kind of stuff like that. Kelly Molson: So, yeah, again, it comes back to just knowing your audience and what are they interested in and how you can engage them and what are your potential new audiences as well, and how can you develop content that attracts them. There is a correlation between content and purchases, though, which is quite interesting. So our report shows that those who were deliberate in ensuring their content was kept fresh and engaging saw an average of 25 to 50,000 completed website purchases a year, whereas those who didn't, on average, had around 10,000 completed purchases. In the same time frame. That's interesting. In addition, of the respondents who recognised the need for regular content updates but weren't action in them, 23% stated that their average sales conversion rate sat between one and 4%, which is below the benchmark for the sector. Kelly Molson: So the sector benchmark is 5% now, so that 1% is significantly low. Paul Marden: Absolutely. Shall we move on and talk about some testing? Because I know you think this one really is. Kelly Molson: Oh, yeah, I really do. So there is a statistic in the report that I had to reread a few times, actually, to believe. So last year's survey and report, we had about 70 attractions take part. This year has been significantly more than that. We got 188 attractions from up and down the UK and Europe take part, which was incredible.Paul Marden: And one in North America as well. I was really excited when I saw that one. Kelly Molson: Yes, we went international. That was exciting. Okay, so think about this: 188 attractions took part in this. 70% of the respondents have never conducted user testing of any kind on their website. 70%! That's actually not the worst stat though. I'm going to save the worst stat for another episode, but that's not the one that shocked me the most. But this one is really surprising. We've talked a bit about making assumptions about how well your website is perceived by people.Kelly Molson: Hard data from actual users is the key to designing a website that has an improved user experience because it can clarify problem areas and identify where most effort is needed to create a really great online experience. So if you're not asking your users how they're interacting with the site and do they like it? Can they buy things well? Can they find what they want? How do you know if it's good or not? It's blown my mind. Paul Marden: It's really hard, isn't it? Really hard. Kelly Molson: And I think it's really you wrote this down, actually. It's really important to be aware of a familiarity bias. So just because you think your website is easy to navigate doesn't mean other people think is it's because you're familiar with it so you understand where things are. Which is really interesting. Actually, I've just been reminded of a conversation that I had with somebody when I was at an attraction. Now I can't name this attraction, we're working with them and we're under NDA, but they asked me about a website that we'd redesigned. They said, "Oh, you did this website, didn't you?" I said, "Yes", "I can't find this thing anymore that I couldn't find. It took me ages to find it before" and I was like, "All right, what is the thing?" And he talked about what it was. Kelly Molson: I said, "Oh, well, it would be in this area". And he said, "Yeah, which makes sense. But before it was over here and I knew where it was and it just feels a bit weird now." I said, "Do you think it was in the right place before?". "Oh, no, shouldn't have been." Okay. So it's just because you know where it is doesn't mean it's actually in the right place. It's just what you get used to over the years. Paul Marden: It is incredibly hard to put yourself into the position of the person that knows nothing about your organisation. Trying to imagine what the customer is going through takes a lot of effort and I think that you can get data to be able to do that. But a lot of there's kind of levels of kind of understanding of that, putting yourself into that customer's position, the empathy that is required. Lots of people that we meet and work with will talk about how they want their site to be structured and what makes sense to them. Some people then will go the next stage and think about what they think their customer wants. And then there's a stage beyond that which is not even trying to put themselves into the customer position, but actually test what the customer thinks. Paul Marden: It's really hard to have the empathy to understand. If you know nothing, what would you do? And there's loads of stuff that you can do. I'm sure we'll come on to that later on to try to understand and test. But just sitting somebody down and watching them go from zero to hero and buying your tickets is a valuable thing that you could do, couldn't it? Kelly Molson: Yeah, absolutely. Now the report on the survey is anonymous. All the data that we get from it, we don't talk about the people that have submitted it and we don't talk about them. There was a number of websites within the data set that were doing really well in terms of both design and navigation and the impact that they were having on their conversion rate. So we reached out to these organisations to ask if we could talk about them today. And all of them were very happy for us to talk about it. So we have had their permission. I think I'll hand over to you, Paul, because you've been doing the analysis over on these sites. It's really lovely to see that Roman Baths are on this list.Paul Marden: They're on the list.Kelly Molson: Because they have been on the podcast and they're our podcast alumni. So that was good.Paul Marden: Yeah, more than once, I think, as well. Kelly Molson: Yes, they have been. Paul Marden: What I went looking for were who were the organisations that thought that they had good design and navigation in their site? But I didn't think that was really enough because of course you could think that it was good and it isn't very good. So what could I dig into the data to try to pull apart the people that thought they had good design and following through from that good design actually had good outcomes. And Roman Baths was up there in that top set of organisations that had they thought they had a good, consistent high quality design, but they also had a conversion rate up there in the top ratings that we had inside the data set. Obviously, Roman Baths really well known organisation, lots of international visitors will be going there. Paul Marden: There was another that I pulled out in the data set, which was also a really high profile brand. London Zoo came out in that top set. Kelly Molson: Also past podcast guests. Thank you. Yes, lovely people. Paul Marden: So they also thought they had good, consistent design, but coincidentally also had good quality conversion rates up there in the top performance in the data set. But to avoid you saying to me, "Oh, but all these are all big, internationally recognised brands. What's design got to do with it?" Up there we've got Roman Baths, London Zoo. Big, well known brands. But there's also some organisations that I wasn't familiar with in that data set. So there were organisations that are probably more regional, less internationally well recognised brands. And one of those that considered that they had good quality design and they also had high levels of conversion rates. Alongside that were Smithwick's experience in Kilkenny in Ireland. It's an attraction that is a brewery tour. I thought that one was really interesting when I went and looked at it. Paul Marden: It was really easy to navigate around the site, ridiculously easy to go and buy tickets. You go onto the site, it's right there to be able to buy those tickets, to go to that experience. So I think that told me that you didn't need to be a big, well recognised brand to be able to devote the time and attention and budget that's needed to get a good design, which then has the impact on your conversion rates. Yeah, this is not just for the big brands. This is also for other brands, smaller, regional brands that can maybe not devote the same levels of investment to it that a large organisation can, but they can still have good outcomes and good design. Kelly Molson: Yeah. And I think it's fair to say we do ask questions in the report about budget, but we don't ask them specifically. So we haven't asked. We don't, for example, know the investment that Roman Barths, London Zoo or Smithwicks have made in their website to get it to where it is now. We literally have no idea. So their budgets could be phenomenally big, they could be phenomenally small. We have no idea whatsoever. But we know that they have invested in good design and they've done it to a really great standard, which means it's easy for people to make purchases. Therefore their sales are sitting at a really great level. Kelly Molson: The Roman Baths I just a little shout out to Simon Addison, actually, because Simon did come on to the podcast a couple of times now, and actually he came onto a recent episode where we talked about the value of this report and the survey that we carry out. And this is its second year now and we can see the value in terms of the data that we've been able to glean from it is so much more insightful this year. The key insights themselves are much more in depth than they were last year. But one thing that Simon mentioned is that we don't work with Roman Baths. I've made that clear on the last podcast. We didn't design their website. We've not worked with them. Kelly Molson: They did use the report to inform some of the decisions that they made about designing their website and making changes to it, which I think is so great. Right. The report is actually actively doing what we set out for it to do. Regardless of whether anyone comes to work with us or not. Someone can take this report and use the insights from it to inform their current agency to make changes to their site that are going to make a significant difference to their bottom line. Well done, us. Paul Marden: Well done, us. But well done, everyone that's responded as well. Kelly Molson: Whatever. Well done, us. Well done, everyone. Thank you. Paul Marden: So I just think it's really impressive, isn't it, that we've got what was it you said? 180 something respondents from across the sector.Kelly Molson: 188.Paul Marden: It's so hard in a tough industry. There's lots of industries where people would not work together. And this is a collaborative exercise in sharing your data that takes a certain confidence within the sector to be able to be willing to share that information so that then somebody like us can then do the graph that aggregating that and seeing the interesting stories that people can then use to make things better. There's so many places where you would not see that happen.Kelly Molson: It's a wonderful part of the sector, that collaboration and that willingness to share and be open about things. Right, let's talk about next steps then, because we've talked about some of the items within design, navigation, testing. We've talked about who's doing it well. Let's wrap this up with next steps that you can take.  Kelly Molson: If you think some of these things are relevant to you and you want to do something about them. Do some testing. Do some testing and you can do that in a variety of ways. Paul Marden: Do you want me to test some stuff? Kelly Molson: Let's do some testing. Let's test. Look, there's loads of ways that you can do user testing if you're going through the process of a redesign at the moment. Go back to your wireframes, make them interactive. Do some internal testing, do some external testing. You can do this in multiple ways so you can do focus groups, get bums on seats in front of computers and give them some things that you want them to do on your site. Don't tell them how to do it, but just give them some things that you want them to achieve. I want you to buy a ticket. I want you to tell me how easy it is to go and find the interactive map. I want you to find a blog post and can you get from the blog post to buying a ticket, some of those things. Kelly Molson: This doesn't need to cost you a huge amount of money, right? You all have an asset in that. "Hey, would you like a free ticket to our venue if you come and do some testing for us?" Put on a little bit of lunch, put on people are really happy to help and give you feedback in that way. So that doesn't need to be a huge cost at all. You can use online tools, so we use tools like UserTesting.com. You can select a certain demographic that you want to test out and you upload what you want them to test. And then they go off and they do it, and they record videos, and you can see how they interact and they talk through what they're doing and how easy it was for them to do those things as well. Kelly Molson: They are not a huge, costly I actually don't know off the top of my head. There will be a fee to use the system, which will be a monthly fee and then there'll be a fee probably for that will cover X amount of tests within that monthly fee. So it will probably be from what, 150, maybe a month, something like that, maybe a bit more. Paul Marden: The cost depends as well on factors, how many factors you place on the do you only want people to do user testing that are of a particular demographic and age? If your attraction has mainly parents with young kids coming, do you want your user testing to be done only by parents with young kids? When you add more constraints to it, the cost of doing it becomes higher. But arguably the quality of the data that you get back from the testing is more relevant to you. Kelly Molson: You can do this with I've talked about going back to the wireframe stage. You can do this at any point. So great, do a load of testing before you go ahead and release something to the world. But if you've got something that's up and running now, do some testing. So you can do user testing on what you already have. You can do exit surveys so you can ask people once they've bought a ticket, you can ask them how easy that was. What did you find difficult? What were your challenges at the end of your purchasing journey? So there's small little things you can do there. Paul Marden: The world has changed a lot, hasn't it? In the last few years we've moved to almost exclusively online sales beforehand. So we've got this massive pool of data, of contact information of the people that have bought your tickets. That's such a great resource that you could use, which in previous years pre pandemic it would have been a struggle because a large chunk of your people would have been walk ins who you didn't necessarily it wasn't easy to capture those sorts of contact details and follow up with them. Kelly Molson: Yeah, exactly. And then I think there are things that you can do in terms of looking at your user experience and the design side of things. We do things like UX reviews for people. We actually offered one as a prize for all of the people that entered the survey this year and the lovely people at Cheddar Gorge won that. We're going to be looking at that in a couple of months for them. Paul Marden: Back near my home proper, that's Cheddar Gorge is where I went as a kid, like, so that's exciting to be. Kelly Molson: In that we'll be carrying that out later on in the year for them. So, yeah, there's things that you can do in terms of working with an agency to look at what your user journeys look like. Are they correct for the audience that you have? Does your design flow? Where are the barriers that you're seeing? And again, if you're looking at some of the data of where you're seeing people drop off, is that a design issue, is that a function issue? How do we work those things out? Paul Marden: There's loads of tools, isn't there, as well, like Hotjar that you can stick on, which doesn't cost a lot of money. And it's not just Hotjar, there are lots of other tools just like it which would give you insight into the behaviour of the users on the site. It's just a snapshot that you get for free, but that snapshot could really help inform decision making about maybe I need to make it easier for them to find the button because they're finding it hard to book tickets or whatever. Kelly Molson: Because they can't see where they need to book their tickets. Paul Marden: Yeah. Kelly Molson: So, yeah, I think in summary, do some testing is what I'm going to end this podcast episode with. Do some testing, come back and tell us what you find.Paul Marden: Exciting. I'd love to have those conversations. Kelly Molson: As ever, if you want to get in touch with either of us, all of our contact details are in the Show Notes. If anything has sparked your interest that we've talked about today, we're really happy to answer any questions and things like that. So if you do want to ask any questions about any of the kind of stats that we've talked about, again, just our email addresses will be in the Show Notes. And also, if you haven't downloaded the report yet, why not? Because it's out. It launched yesterday. We did a webinar. Did you come to it? Why not? If not, but if you do want to go and download the report, we'll put the link to that in the Show Notes as well. But just head over to the rubbercheese.com website and you'll be able to find it. We'll see you next time. Paul Marden: Awesome. Thank you. Kelly Molson: Thanks for listening to Skip the Queue. If you've enjoyed this podcast, please leave us a five star review. It really helps others find us. And remember to follow us on Twitter for your chance to win the books that have been mentioned. Skip The Queue is brought to you by Rubber Cheese, a digital agency that builds remarkable systems and websites for attractions that helps them increase their visitor numbers. You can find show notes and transcriptions from this episode and more over on our website, rubbercheese.com/podcast.

An air conditioning drone outside the ancient Roman Baths in Bath, England - the confluence of ancient history and the more industrial sounds of a modern city.  Recorded by Lee Riley. Part of the Music for Sleep project - for more information and to hear more sounds from the collection, visit https://citiesandmemory.com/music-for-sleep/ IMAGE:  Agadant, CC BY-SA 3.0 , via Wikimedia Commons

https://amateurtraveler.com/uk-two-week-itinerary-by-train/ Hear about a UK two-week itinerary by train as the Amateur Traveler talks to Tracy Collins from UKTravelPlanning.com about a train trip in the country that invented trains. London We start in London. Spend some time visiting some of the iconic sites like the Tower of London or Westminster Abbey. Visit the great museums of London like Tracy's favorite, the Victoria and Albert Museum. Then we start our journey to see England, Wales, and Scotland from Paddington Station. Bath Visit the historic Roman Baths from which Bath gets its name. Visit the magnificent Bath Abbey. Stroll through the iconic Royal Crescent with its Georgian Architecture. Immerse yourself in Jane Austen's world at the Jane Austen Centre. As a side trip from Bath, consider one of the following Tour the stone circles of Stonehenge and Avebury. Explore the awe-inspiring Salisbury Cathedral. Take a scenic train ride to the picturesque Cotswolds. Cardiff Travel to the capital of Wales, Cardiff.  Explore the historic Cardiff Castle. Embark on an exciting Cardiff Dr. Who Tour. Visit the impressive Principality Stadium. Option 1: Liverpool Take a train to Liverpool, the home of The Beatles. Join the magical Mystery Tour to learn about the Fab Four. Visit the historic Albert Dock including the International Slavery Museum. Option 2: Lake District Explore Bowness-on-Windermere, a charming lakeside town. Visit Dove Cottage, the former home of William Wordsworth. Experience the charm of Hill Top, Beatrix Potter's House. Edinburgh Take a train to Scotland's capital of Edinburgh. Walk the Royal mile from Edinburgh Castle to the historic Holyrood Palace. Hike up Arthur's Seat or Calton Hill for stunning views. Dare to venture into the mysterious Edinburgh Vaults. As a side trip from Edinburgh consider: Travel to nearby Glasgow. Admire The Kelpies, Scotland's mythical horse sculptures. Visit St Andrews, the birthplace of golf. York Take the Jacobite Steam Train through Tracy's native Northumberland to the city of York. Explore the Roman history at the Roman Bath in York. Discover the Viking legacy at the Jorvik Viking Centre. Wander through the charming Shambles. Visit the wonderful Railway Museum. Return back to London.

As promised this week, we are doing something Intrepid. Actually, this week's episode is the first part of a 7 day tour we did from Rome to Amalfi with Intrepid Travel. We start today in Rome – visiting the Roman Baths before we meet the other members of our tour and our Italian guide – Luca to get all the info on our tour and have our first dinner together. Next morning, we take the fast train from Rome to Naples. Naples was a real eye opener – and we tell you all about the edgy Spanish Quarter with all its decorations and street art which is everywhere.  Then we talk about the most famous Napoli football player of all time who is everywhere you turn in Naples and why the whole city was covered in blue and white decorations – literally! We walk through the streets, visit the stunning veiled Christ statue, and it was incredible.  Next we visit the massive 23,000 square metre plaza, walk along the Bay of Naples to the famous castle that is supposedly held up by an egg. Next, we have lunch and eat the famous Neapolitan pizza. We tell you about the unique toilet paper for sale around the old city area and we finish in a gorgeous little outdoor bar right in the heart of the Spanish quarter. Lastly, we take you to the metro station, so far underground I thought we would never reach the bottom before we board another train on our way to our next destination – that is for next week's episode. If you would like to see all the photos from this episode, and the interactive map with all the places we mention on it then go to the episode description on the player you are now listening on and click on the link to Episode 69. So, for now please enjoy Episode 69 all about Rome to Naples. To see the show notes, photos and interactive map with this episode click here www.beachtravelwine.com/podcast/69/naples To see all our other Italian podcasts click here www.beachtravelwine.com/italy or visit our website at www.beachtravelwine.com --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/leanne-mccabe/message

Meet Oz, the man behind My Tailored Tours, a company that crafts bespoke UK vacation experiences. Despite the challenges of the COVID pandemic, Oz's innovative spirit has built a travel business that delivers unique and personalized tours. His story, full of resilience and ambition, is sure to inspire and entertain.Stepping into history, we follow Oz as he guides us through the iconic Stonehenge and Bath route. As he paints a vivid picture of Roman Baths, the Georgian city of Bath, and the scenic Cotswolds, you'll feel as though you're right there with him. He also unveils the secrets of Castle Combe, a popular destination, and why certain parts of Bath are no longer accessible by large tour buses. This tantalizing glimpse into these historical locations will have you yearning to explore them yourself.Beyond set tours, Oz's company shines in creating tailor-made itineraries that match the client's desires. Whether it's a 300-mile journey to the mythological sites of King Arthur in Glastonbury or a visit to Oxford, the Cotswolds, and Stratford-upon-Avon, every tour is a memorable adventure. Oz emphasizes the importance of setting realistic expectations and always aims to exceed them. Ready for a deep dive into the UK's rich history and breathtaking landscapes? My Tailored Tours awaits your call.For further information and the full show notes for this episode visit UKTravelPlanning.com/episode-60>> Visit our shop for guides and resources to help plan your trip including our popular UK Train Travel ebookSupport the show❤️ Do you enjoy our weekly podcast? We love putting together our shows for you and sharing our knowledge, love of UK travel and of course practical tips to save you time and money.

Join the conversation as we journey with Debra Blazer, an American mum of three, on an exhilarating 12-day road trip through the UK. Ever wondered how to squeeze a family of five and their luggage into a rental car? Debra effortlessly navigates the complexities of travelling with kids, sharing her wisdom on packing light and pre-planning logistics. From navigating bustling cities to exploring picturesque countryside towns, she offers a treasure trove of practical advice for those planning their own UK road trips.As Debra recounts her family's explorations of historic castles, you'll feel just like you're there with them. She paints a vivid picture of their experiences with bus tours, shares the sheer fascination of visiting the Roman Baths in Bath, and their experience of driving in London. Hear about their unforgettable visit to Warwick Castle and how her son compared it to Disney World. Plus, you're in for a treat as she shares their incredible experience with falconry at Bolton Castle. As we move up to Scotland, Debra's narrative comes alive with the stunning beauty of places like Elgin Cathedral, Brodie Castle, and the breathtaking Isle of Skye. From the excitement of a day tour to the challenges of climbing castle stairs with a five-year-old, her anecdotes are as compelling as they are insightful. As we wrap up our virtual journey, Debra discusses the invaluable role of the UK Travel Plan Podcast and Facebook group in planning their trip. So hop in, buckle up, and let's hit the road with Debra on this unforgettable UK adventure.For further information and the full show notes for this episode visit UKTravelPlanning.com/episode-59>> Visit our shop for guides and resources to help plan your trip including our popular UK Train Travel ebookSupport the showSupport our show ❤️ Do you enjoy our weekly podcast? We love putting together our shows for you and sharing our knowledge, love of UK travel and of course practical tips to save you time and money.

Welcome to this soothing sleep hypnosis journey that will transport you to the luxurious Roman Baths. As you close your eyes and begin to relax, imagine yourself immersed in the warm and healing waters of the Roman Baths. The ancient Romans believed that the healing powers of these baths could cure ailments and ease stress, and you too will experience their restorative power. As you float in the warm water, you'll be transported to ancient times, surrounded by the grandeur of the Roman Empire. You'll explore the magnificent architecture of the Baths and feel a deep sense of awe and wonder at the ingenuity of the ancient Romans. Finally, you'll be guided through a series of sleep suggestions, encouraging your mind and body to fully let go and surrender to deep, restful sleep. You'll awaken feeling refreshed and rejuvenated, ready to take on the day ahead. --- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/andrew-m-green/support

We're stepping back in time almost 2,000 years in this week's episode of Activity Quest as we dip our toes in the water (though not literally) of Roman Britain. We're at The Roman Baths in Bath to find out more about them plus Adam tries some of its world-famous water.Join Fun Kids Podcasts+: https://funkidslive.com/plusSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Skip the Queue is brought to you by Rubber Cheese, a digital agency that builds remarkable systems and websites for attractions that helps them increase their visitor numbers. Your host is  Kelly Molson, Founder of Rubber Cheese.Download the Rubber Cheese 2022 Visitor Attraction Website Report - the first digital benchmark statistics for the attractions sector.If you like what you hear, you can subscribe on iTunes, Spotify, and all the usual channels by searching Skip the Queue or visit our website rubbercheese.com/podcast.If you've enjoyed this podcast, please leave us a five star review, it really helps others find us. And remember to follow us on Twitter for your chance to win the books that have been mentioned in this podcastCompetition ends July 31st 2023. The winner will be contacted via Twitter. Show references: 2023 Visitor Attraction Website Report Survey - https://www.rubbercheese.com/visitor-attraction-website-report-2023 Andy Povey, Managing Director UK & Ireland for ConviousSkip the Queue episode: https://www.skipthequeue.fm/episodes/andy-poveyConvious: https://www.convious.com/Andy Povey Twitter: https://twitter.com/MrTicketeerAndy Povey LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/andypovey/Andy Povey joined Convious in November 2021 as managing director for UK and Ireland. Andy has worked in the attractions industry since the early nineties when he began as a ride operator at Chessington World of Adventures. He stayed with the Tussaud's company and later Merlin Entertainments for another 18 years, working in a variety of operational jobs at Rock Circus, Madame Tussauds, and central support, where he was responsible for the group's ticketing systems. After Merlin, he worked for Gateway Ticketing Systems for ten years, opening and then overseeing their UK operation, before transferring his experience to the Convious team. Outside work, Andy enjoys visiting attractions of all shapes and sizes with his family. Simon Addison, Heritage Business Manager at the Roman BathsSkip the Queue episode: https://www.skipthequeue.fm/episodes/simon-addisonRoman Baths: https://www.romanbaths.co.uk/Simon Addison Twitter: https://twitter.com/addisonsimonSimon Addison LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/simonaddison/Simon Addison is the Business Manager, Roman Baths and Pump Room, Bath, and heads the finance and business planning functions at the Roman Baths. He is responsible for business analysis, pricing strategy and leads the benchmarking work.Simon started his career in the financial services industry, where he qualified as a chartered management accountant with the Bank of New York. He moved to the National Trust in 2012, where he held roles in the finance team. Latterly he was responsible for the Trust's finances in Somerset, Dorset and Wiltshire. Simon joined the senior leadership team at the Roman Baths in 2017.Simon joined the Board of the Association of Leading Visitor Attractions in May 2022. Dominic Jones, CEO of The Mary Rose Museum, and Director of Portsmouth Historic DockyardSkip the Queue episode: https://www.skipthequeue.fm/episodes/dominic-jonesThe Mary Rose: https://maryrose.org/Portsmouth Historic Dockyard: https://www.historicdockyard.co.uk/Dominic Jones Twitter: https://twitter.com/DominicJonesUKDominic Jones LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dominicejones/Dominic Jones was recruited to the Mary Rose in 2019 ago as Chief Operating Officer, and became CEO in 2021.  He brings an excellent background in commercial visitor attractions (Disney, Merlin) and creative visitor experience development.During his time at the Mary Rose, he has already driven an excellent commercial and operational performance and worked closely with previous Chief Executive to create the new Portsmouth Historic Dockyard joint venture with the National Museum of the Royal Navy, which launched successfully in August 2020.  Transcriptions: Kelly Molson: Welcome to Skip The Queue, a podcast for people working in or working with visitor attractions. I'm your host, Kelly Molson. Today's episode is a little bit different. I speak to Dominic Jones, CEO of the Mary Rose Museum and Director of Portsmouth Historic Dockyard. Simon Addison, Heritage Business Manager at the Roman Baths and Andy Povey, Managing Director, UK and Ireland of Convious. Dom, Simon and Andy share with you the merits of taking part in the 2023 Visitor Attraction Website Survey. We talk about how the report has shaped their digital strategies and what that's delivered to their attractions in terms of increased revenue and improved customer experience. If you like what you hear, you can subscribe on all the usual channels by searching Skip The Queue. Kelly Molson: So I've got Dominic Jones, Simon Addison and Andy Povey here. All past guests, all good friends. We don't need to do icebreakers here because we all know each other pretty well now. But we are going to do a little mini round of unpopular opinions again, because, let's face it, that's why people listen to this podcast. Dominic, I'm going to start with you. Dominic Jones: Why would you start with me? That's so unfair. It's obvious that Simon is your favourite. We can know this is how it works with Bath. He gets all of the good stuff and you come to Dominic first. I used my best unpopular opinion last time when I talked about not mentioning the weather. And I always think my unpopular opinion should be work related. So this one is an interesting one and I wonder whether you will disagree with me, let alone Simon and Andy. But I think when doing discounting, online or in person in our industry. You shouldn't use percentages, and you should use physical pounds, because I think people who use percentages can really confuse people. And also, I just think it's bad form. Kelly Molson: I should throw this one over to Andy, really, because he's pricing expert man, isn't he?Andy Povey: I go that far, Kelly. I actually agree with Dominic, but from a geeky technical perspective.Dominic Jones: Love Andy, always loved Andy. You know what, he's one of those guests that you just love. Simon Addison: Dom, is this just an unpopular opinion because you just can't do percentages, you just want to know how many pounds to take off. Is that what it is? Kelly Molson: Percentages are hard. We're not all like numbers people like you, Simon. Dominic Jones: We're not all born with a calculator. The other thing is that actually, the great British public, our international public, they don't want to be working out. They want to enjoy the day outside. They want to enjoy the Roman Baths, they don't want to be sitting there working out, “What these percentages off mean?”Simon Addison: Dom, you not listen to my podcast on pricing strategy.  We don't discount. Andy Povey: But that was going to be my point. Simon Addison: Yeah, we should be confident enough to the quality of our own products, Dom. That will be my unpopular opinion. We shouldn't discount as an industry, but that's not what I've prepared. Andy Povey: Discounting just seems like a really easy, quick thing for marketeer to do when they're desperate. And I think we should be a little bit more confident about what we're doing and actually use better tools and better ways of communicating the value of what it is that the attraction is doing. So slightly more unpopular, I suppose, Dom, would be let's not do discounts at all. Doesn't matter weather it's 4 pounds or percentages or whatever, then just don't do it.Kelly Molson: So, I'm just gonna come at this from a car boot perspective, which I have to skip randomly. But I love a little bargain. I went to a car boot sale. I'm renovating a cottage in North Norfolk at the moment and I'm trying to furnish it with as much second hand things as possible. So car boot sales are my friend right now, and if I had gone up to the stall and been like, "What's your best price on this?". And they said, "You can have 10% off", I'd have been like, "But what does that mean? It's 05:00 in the morning and my brain can't work this out". But two pounds is yes. Dominic Jones: And it works. And also, there's an element of, you do need to put discounting in, because you've got to look at reaching different audiences. You've got people like Kelly who want to bargain. So you need to put out a decoy pricing in. So they think, "Oh, I'm not paying that for tickets, but I got 2 pounds off, aren't I lucky? I like that.” The problem with percentages is it's people trying to be too clever and it's marketeers trying to be a little bit too clever. And I've never liked it. It's not as bad as the weather. I hate the weather being used as an excuse, but my second one is using percentages in discounting.Kelly Molson: Okay. I'm glad that you changed that quickly to discounting and not marketing because there's a lot of percentages in my report, which we'll discuss later. Right, Simon, moving on to you. Simon Addison: Yeah, okay. It's nothing to do with work. Camping is not a holiday. There's no way that camping is a holiday. But I love the outdoors. We're going on holiday to Pembrokeshire in a couple of months, we'll be outside most of every day. We will walk in the cross paths in whatever the weather. But at the end of the day, we got a little cottage that we are renting to come back to for a shower that haven't got to queue for. We're not sharing a toilet block like camping, washing up, cooking, they're disproportionately hard work, and that's assuming it's sunny. If it rains, it's just miserable. Simon Addison: We can go out and get wet and we don't have to worry about whether we're ever going to get dry for the rest of the week in a tent. The kids will wake up. I haven't finished yet. Kelly. In a tent, they'll wake up at five in the morning when it gets light, and that means just the suffering of the holidays extended over an even longer day. And worst of all, the red wine is too cold and the white wine is too warm. Just miserable. Dominic Jones: Do you not have a fridge when you do camping? Simon Addison:  Dom, I don't camp. You might have got that from there. Dominic Jones: I go camping. I have a fridge. I have a blow up tent. I have all the cons. Kelly Molson: Do you take your bed like the glastonbury dude? Dominic Jones: Well, I try and turn up late to someone else that can turn it all up, but it's very nice. Kelly Molson: Simon, I'm with you on this. I love the outdoors. I'm a big nature girl, but camping is a no no for me. It is miserable. Even glamping. I went glamping on a friend's hen doo once and even that was just a step too far for me. Everything was grubby. It rained, everything was then damp. Everything was damp. Like, everything was damp. It was horrible. Cottage all the way. Hello. I've got one in North Norfolk coming up, available for rent in September. If you're interested in a holiday in beautiful North Norfolk.Dominic Jones: You should go to car boot sales. I believe they've got some great deals at the moment. Kelly Molson: Yeah. They do have some great bargains, Dominic.Simon Addison:  Will you offer me a percentage discount on your cottage in North Norfolk? Kelly Molson: Right, I like that one. I don't think that's going to be that unpopular, if I'm honest. Andy, over to you, final one. Andy Povey: When you first broached the idea of coming back to the podcast, I was really excited and the fact that I was going to join probably my two favourite podcast guests was really exciting. So my unpopular opinion is hopefully it's going to be borne out or proven by this episode of Skip The Queue, in that Dominic Jones isn't going to be number one on the Skip the Queue chart by the end of next week. Dominic Jones: That's so harsh. Now, what have I ever done to hurt you, Andy? Andy Povey: You've not hurt me, Dom, you're not. It's just a little friendly competition. Simon Addison: Is Dom number one? He's never mentioned it. I've literally never heard him talk about. Andy Povey: I don't know where you'd get that from. Dominic Jones: I'm a very shy guy. Am I number one? You're joking me. Really? Kelly Molson: Yes, you do not know?Dominic Jones: We should tell people about this. This needs to get out there before it changes. Kelly Molson: So I said, if Dominic is still number one at Christmas, I'm going to send him a gift. I'm going to send him something commemorative for this at Christmas. So he was number one last Christmas. You were the official Skip the Queue Christmas number one. Dominic Jones: Amazing, I did not know that. Wow.Kelly Molson: Yeah, I know. It is amazing. I'm sure you've not mentioned that before. Andy Povey: You never talked about it. Kelly Molson: We're just at the end of June where we're recording this, so there's still a fair few months to go. We do have our summer break coming up, the season five will start in September. So we've got from September to December for someone to topple you off that number one slot. Dominic Jones: I'm happy to be toppled. And joking aside, both Andy and Simon's podcast were amazing and I love both of them. And actually all of your guests are really I do really love Skip the Queue. It's one of those treats you get to looking to the new Skip the Queue podcast. So if I get toppled from number one, life is okay. Kelly Molson: You are very kind. Right. Thank you for sharing those unpopular opinions. What would be lovely listeners if you follow us over on Twitter, you can just search for Skip the Queue. I'd like to know who's unpopular opinion you preferred the most out of those three, please. Maybe I'll do a little poll on Twitter next week when this podcast episode launches. Right. This is completely unscripted and this is really last minute for the guests and so I'm super grateful that you could come and join me today. Now, it is a bit of an unusual episode for me because I actually don't tend to talk about the stuff that I do or Rubber Cheese does on this podcast. Maybe tiny little snippets of it here and there, but we never kind of dedicate an episode to the things that we do. Kelly Molson: We had a free slot and I thought, I wanted to come on and talk about the initiative that we started last year that is now running in its second year. So bear with me while I explain a little bit of a background about it. So back in May 2022, Rubber Cheese, my agency, launched the first national survey of visitor attraction websites. So I've been asked to speak on a webinar by the lovely team at Kallaway PR, who have also Will Kallaway has been a guest on the podcast. They asked me to come on and talk about cart abandonment and ways that kind of design and UX can help prevent it. So I went away, put my slides together, tried to search for some data that would back up a few theories that I had. Kelly Molson: And that was when I kind of hit a bit of a brick wall. Yeah, brick wall, that's what I'm trying to say. Couldn't find any specific data for the sector. I could find data about cart abandonment rates for all kinds of ecommerce sites, all kinds of pharmaceutical companies. Anything and everything that you could think of was out there except visitor attractions. And I realised that I think the data gets a bit skewed for them because they were kind of getting put into hospitality or tourism in general, or hotels sometimes, I think outdoor and sports. So I wasn't kind of able to back up theories that I had with the data. So that led us to setting up the survey. Kelly Molson: And were really, really lucky to have some amazing bunch of people like the teams at ALVA and ASVA who totally supported the initiative and shared it with their members. Last year, we had a brilliant response. We had 70 leading attractions from up and down the UK take part. And in November last year, were able to launch the very first Visitor Attraction Website Report, which saw us set the first digital benchmarks for the sector. So the sector now has benchmarks for add to basket rate, basket abandonment rate, bounce rate, conversion rate, load times and then the report, because of the kind of questions that we asked, we got loads of key insight into user experience, booking journeys, mobile experience and loads, loads more. Kelly Molson: But more importantly, that report, since its launch, has enabled attractions to make improvements to their websites, which makes their service better for their clients and makes their digital presence better. So it's been such an exciting thing to be involved in and it is a real passion project for me. I've loved every minute of setting it up. This year, we are now in our second year of running it and we've got a brilliant partner in Andy and the team at Convious, which I'm thrilled about. Say thank you. So I've asked you all to come on today to talk a little bit about the survey and the report and what it has enabled you to do. I want to start a little bit with Dominic and Simon, really, and ask them the questions, because they are in the position of being senior leaders in a visitor attraction. Kelly Molson: They've both publicly spoken to me and said that the report has enabled them to do some really exciting things. And I think it's probably important for me to state that you're not our clients, like Rubber Cheese is not. We don't work with either of you from a client perspective. I'd definitely count you as friends and obviously Skip the Queue podcast alumni now as well. So, Simon, let me come to you first. What has the report enabled you to do at Roman Baths and why has it been important for you to kind of take part? What's it delivered for you? Simon Addison: Sure, I think the report came out at a really important time for us because were already in the midst of a website redesign project. So what the report enabled us to do was to look at the findings in the report, the stats in the report, and ensure that were building our new website in a way that optimised that sort of user experience and customer journey. But I think also in visitor attractions, our websites are often trying to do two quite different things. So, on the one hand, it's sort of the gateway to a visit. It's the first place that people go when they're planning their visit and they want to maybe buy a ticket and come to Bath. Simon Addison: At the same time, it's also telling sort of our more engaged audience, information about the collection and information about the history of the site or research that we're undertaking. And we want to be able to really quickly segregate those two audiences, because one audience we want to keep there for as long as possible to delve into the stories that we want to tell them and to really sort of effectively convert them from a very transactional relationship, which is buying a ticket to one of more of a supporter where they might donate in future. They'll become engaged in our program. And so designing a website that on the first page helps to divert visitors from that sort of more engaged, we're here to learn from, “We want to buy a ticket for Saturday”, and sort of get them on their journey quickly, efficiently and as few clicks as possible. Simon Addison: So I think having that endorsement of the importance of the user, the journey, how many clicks is optimal before people start abandoning and giving up, that was so helpful in the way that were designing the website. Kelly Molson: Amazing. That is such a good testimony for what we've done. And obviously we can't do any of that unless people take part in the survey and submit their data. And so we can understand and learn how websites are performing in the first place. But for me, it's really exciting to hear that because I guess having those kind of baseline benchmarks is a starting point for the industry. And that's, for me, what was missing completely in that we can talk about how we want them to improve and how we want the sector to move on. And I think, Andy, we've had a conversation before where we kind of feel like the sector is a little bit behind, where other industries are probably about four or five years, potentially behind in some areas. Andy Povey: I'd go even further than that, Kelly.Kelly Molson: Oh, wow. Okay. Yeah. Andy Povey: Generally people don't pick up the phone to me and ask me to come and talk about their ecommerce platforms if they're perfectly happy with what they're doing. So maybe I'm seeing a different side of the market. But it astounds me how many attractions there are that aren't able to monitor their performance, to look at their conversion rates, to look at their basket abandonment rates, all that kind of stuff. It's astounding, which is why I'm really happy to be working with you on the survey this year. Kelly Molson: Okay, well, let me go to Andy now. So, Andy, introduce yourself for your role at Convious.Andy Povey: So I'm responsible for everything we do with Convious in the UK and Ireland. So job title is MD, UK and Ireland. Kelly Molson: So Andy and I got introduced quite a while ago, actually, now. I feel like it was a Ticketing Professionals Conference. Was it there? Andy Povey: I think it was Dominic Jones that introduced us at the Museums and Heritage. Kelly Molson: Yes, it was Museums and Heritage. It was.Andy Povey: And it did indeed. Dominic Jones: I can't believe you forgot that. Kelly Molson: Yes, it was with the Sarcophagus.Dominic Jones: I brought two great people together. I mean, I feel like I don't get the credit for this introduction. Thank you. Kelly Molson: I'm sorry. Dominic Jones: You do? Kelly Molson: Yeah, it was you. You're actually really good at introducing people.Dominic Jones: Talented people. Talented people to each other. Kelly Molson: Yeah. You grabbed me at this year's Eminet show and introduced me to multiple people, actually. It was very kind of you. What a kind man you are. Dominic Jones: It's a pleasure. Andy Povey: Isn't he? Kelly Molson: So this year, well, I mean, I guess this is thanks to you, Dominic. So Dominic introduced Andy and I.Dominic Jones: You are welcome, by the way. Welcome. Kelly Molson: Why is it important for Convious to be part of what we're doing this year with the report?Andy Povey: Well, it's actually more important to me on a personal level, I think, Kelly. I'm a massive fan of attractions have been for my whole working life, which is there have been quite a lot of years in that so far, and I just want to see attractions doing better than they do at the moment. We've shared lots of conversations about really awful booking experiences, not just for attractions. Booking tickets to my kids, after school clubs. Personal bear of mine is dreadful. Don't ever do it if you don't have to. Andy Povey: So I find that really frustrating. It upsets me to see attractions getting it wrong and some get it really wrong. So having some benchmarks, having some industry standards where people can go, actually, we're not doing what we should be doing. And why aren't we able to measure that? And what does it mean to our business by not measuring that? It's really important. Kelly Molson: It is really important. It's been phenomenal to have the support of Convious and specifically Andy and Mirabelle, who I've worked very closely with over the past few months on this project. What it's also allowing us to do, and hopefully this will grow year on year, is that it's opening up to a European audience as well. So, Andy, Convious is a Dutch company originally. Andy Povey: Yes. So we're headquartered in Amsterdam. Germany is actually our largest market in terms of volume of customers, but we also have significant presence in France and Belgium, Netherlands and Bedelux area. Kelly Molson: So we have had a number of submissions this year from European countries. And that's all down to Convious. Andy Povey: Thank you. Kelly Molson: We would hope over the next few years that this can start to grow and grow and become something that isn't solely focused on the UK market, which would be really exciting. We did actually have a Canadian zoo take part yesterday, which was quite exciting. So the message is slowly starting to spread out worldwide as well. An international survey. That's exciting, isn't it? Andy Povey: Absolutely, yeah. Dominic Jones: It was a game changer. That's what you've done. You've created something that is a true game changer. I remember getting very excited about the results and sitting at the back of the London Transport Theatre or wherever you launched them, and then just getting depressed every single slide. I was like, “Oh, no, we don't do that, or, we don't do that well, or, that's not great”. But it was fantastic because actually, for the first time ever, were able to compare ourselves and think, “Right, so if this is the industry standard, how can we make that better? How can we adapt that at the Mary Rose in Portsmouth Historic Dockyard?” and things like the five steps to make a booking and all this other sort of stuff that you were putting out. And I remember writing my book and thinking, “This is awful. This is absolutely awfu”l because we are performing way worse than that. We're still not fixed it.Dominic Jones: We've got some money to look at websites and we put some new websites in and we're still developing it. But even little things like we changed and had a microsite last summer, we had one of our best summers ever, but we did that because of your data. We were looking and thinking, “We've got too many steps to making a booking or It takes too long to load this page, or actually we need to.” So I think you've really been a massive game changer, and if now you're getting the Canadians involved, I mean, it's going to be fantastic. I can't wait to see what they've got to say. Dominic Jones: So I do genuinely think you've made a big difference and I can't wait to see this year's results and next year's results. And I hope this is something you keep doing forever because you've made a real difference. You really have. Kelly Molson: Dominic, you're so kind. That's really kind. Thank you. That's amazing feedback. What I love about what you said is that you've actively been able to take the data that people have supplied and go, “We are here. We're not performing to that point yet. But if we make these changes, we can get to that point.” And that's what I love. This is what this is all about. It's about marginal gains. It's about making those tiny little 1% improvements every day and getting better and better. We couldn't ask for more. That's what we hoped. Dominic Jones: And before I get kicked and hit by all my colleagues, there were lots of things that were doing great as well. But actually, you don't talk about them, do you? Don't say, “Oh, well, we're doing okay because we're very British, we only really talk about the things that we want to improve or we're not doing right.” But I do think it's a phenomenal game changer and it's the sort of report that you can use as a toolkit to really sort of check where you are and where you want to be. And I genuinely can't wait for the next one. I hope we get a preview for doing this podcast. Did we get an early release? Is that part of the deal? Simon, did you sign something like that? Simon Addison: Yeah, signed it all. Dom, did you not get the paperwork? Dominic Jones: Of course you did. He's got people. Kelly Molson: If you've taken part in the survey, you will get it exclusively before it is released to the general public. So, I mean, I can confirm that you both have, which is a relief. Dominic Jones: Of course we have. We're early adopters, we love it. Simon Addison: I did check before we came on this afternoon that we completed it because I thought that would be really awkward. Dominic Jones: You probably won the Convious prize, right, for being one of the people that completed it all. The 100th person to complete. I saw all that online, honestly.Andy Povey: I think everyone got one by you, Dom. I don't know what it was you've done to upset Mirabelle in our marketing team. Dominic Jones: I think you're taking this podcast thing a little bit too seriously. Simon Addison: Just to go back to what you were saying, Kelly, about marginal gains, I think that is where the value of this is, because most of us have got websites that are capable of selling a ticket. But when you operate a visitor attraction as successful as Dom's, or you get hundreds of thousands of people going to your website or to your attraction each year, millions of people to the website. Simon Addison: And if you can achieve a 1% shift in a customer behaviour, the returns on that are really significant. So you don't have to suddenly come up with a revolutionary new website. You have to focus on what are the things that are just holding you back a little bit, removing those pain points from the customer journey. The uplift is so significant of just achieving a small percentage change. I know Dom doesn't like percentages, but that is what we're talking about here. Dominic Jones: No, with that terms, I do, absolutely. And you're absolutely right. And even little things like how it looks on a mobile as opposed to looking on a desktop.Simon Addison: Exactly.Dominic Jones: Change our way of thinking. And you've got to keep doing it because that's what's going to make this industry and where we all work and the amazing places that we work in even better. It's brilliant. Kelly Molson: Well, we absolutely will continue to do it. So this is the second year that we're running it and we have no intention of stopping. Just going back to what you said, Simon. I think what you said about making what you already have better in terms of your website, I think that's a really important point to push is that it has been a really weird few years. And this year I think all of us were kind of hoping this would be a year of normality. And let's face it really hasn't, has it? It's been another odd one. Kelly Molson: So we've started off the year, there's an awful war happening, there's a terrible cost of living crisis, there's all kinds of stuff happening that is affecting attractions. Yet again, affecting all of us, really, but affecting attractions in terms of whether people are going to come, how much they're going to spend, what they're going to do. We know that marketing budgets were going to be probably drastically cut this year by at least 15, 20%. That was the message that was being given when I attended the ALVA Heads of Marketing meeting before Christmas. So I think that being able to look at the report and use it to implement changes to what you already have is really important. You may not have the budget to go out and start again. Kelly Molson: You don't necessarily need to, but if there's improvements that you can be made to your site in terms of the performance or the speed, all of those things are going to help. They're all things that will add up over time and ultimately make the performance of it better and make the customer experience better. So think that's quite an important message to talk about. Another thing to add is that this year we're doing it again. We're asking the same questions that we did last year because obviously we need the same data set, but it's more so it's bigger and better. We'll get feedback on whether that's too much for people, but we're asking questions around Usability, whether you're collecting feedback. We're asking questions around kind of promotions and discounts and how people are measuring their traffic sources and whether they're doing user tests. Kelly Molson: So there's so much more that's going to be in it from this year. And one really exciting thing which you touched on, Dominic, is that everybody that takes part in the survey will get exclusive access to the report before it's made public. But actually, as soon as you've filled in the survey this year, you get a little mini report. And what it does is benchmark you where you are now against the benchmarks from last year. So it will give you a little report to identify how your website is performing based on last year's benchmarks that we identified. Now that's really important. So you could be underperforming, you might be performing too, you might be overperforming, you might be doing better than those benchmarks from last year, and those benchmarks may change dramatically from last year to this year, we don't know yet. Kelly Molson: So that's like a little added bonus. If you're on the fence about taking part, you will get something that's actionable as soon as you've taken part in the survey this year. This year the report will launch towards the end of September. We will release dates and be a bit more specific once we've closed the survey. But this episode is going to launch on the 5th July. That means that you've just got one week left to take part. So one week left before the survey closes on the 12th of July. So if you are thinking about it, stop thinking about it. Go and do it. It will literally take 20 minutes. You're going to need your Google Analytics open or other analytics tool that you use. You can find the link to the survey in our show notes of this show. Kelly Molson: You can head over to Rubbercheese.com and you will find the link to it on the home page. Or you can search for the 2023 Visitor Attraction Website Report and you will find it. You can head over to Convious and you will find it on Convious website. It's everywhere. Go find it. Do it. Take part. These guys did it. Made a big difference. Dominic Jones: Best 20 minutes of your life. Just do it. Just do it. Honestly, what else can you do? So much value in 20 minutes. There's not much else you can do.Kelly Molson: I worry about how you spend your time. If that's the best 20 minutes of real life. Dominic, that's a concern, but, I mean, he's not wrong. Dominic Jones: I mean at work, not like in real life. I do amazing things in my normal life. Kelly Molson: If you could talk to all of the visitor attractions that are listening now, what would you say to them to encourage them to go and take part? Simon Addison: I would say that if you're not already looking at the things you need to fill in, then you should be looking at them anyway. So you say it takes 20 minutes, Kelly, to fill them in? I'll be honest. I didn't fill them in for the Roman Baths, our Digital Marketing officer did. And I think Dom's blank face when you're talking about the mini report also tells me that he didn't fill it in for Mary Rose either. But it's 20 minutes. But it's all data that you should be looking at. And if you're not looking at it's probably a prompt that you or your teams need to be looking at it anyway. Simon Addison: And getting that report allows you to either make the case with your trustees or your board to invest if you need investment, or it provides an endorsement of the quality of the website and the offer that you've got. Either one of those things is really useful and we know how hard it is to get investment. Kelly, you talked about marketing budgets at the moment. If you want to get money to invest in your website, having this evidence will help convince your CEO or your Trustees that's the right thing for you to do. And equally, if you don't need to, then this is confirmation of that. So that's what I'd say. Kelly Molson: Thank you. That is brilliant. How about you, Dom? Dominic Jones: I'd agree and I'll come clean. I didn't fill it in either, but someone did do it. But it's not the filling in, it's the reading it and using it that counts. Right? That's what matters. It's about receiving it and doing something with it. I actually think it's really useful to get as much benchmark data as possible in this industry. And actually what you do is you give us this for websites, you give it for ecommerce and it's fantastic. I wish there were more people doing it in all the areas of our industry because actually this visitor attraction to get benchmarks is quite rare. So it's fantastic to get that. So I really appreciate that. And I would say if you're listening and you work in a visitor attraction, why wouldn't you do this? Dominic Jones: Because like Simon says, you can understand where you are. You can use it for funding, you can use it towards getting revenue, you can use it towards recruiting some extra people in your team. You can use it to how you performance manage your team. You can use it for so many things. It's such a good document. I can't stress enough, I might not have filled out the form, but I definitely read it and I definitely used it and I do definitely love it.Kelly Molson: Wow. So appreciative of your fabulous comments. Thank you both. Andy, what would you add to that? Andy Povey: Well, I don't know that I can, but really it shouldn't really take you that long to complete this because you should be all over this kind of data anyway. If you're a digital offer in any business and if you're not looking at this kind of stuff, then it's probably time to really start managing your business in a much better way. And really, just to reiterate the point, that an incremental improvement, just a 0.5% improvement in the results in this kind of area can deliver you hundreds and hundreds of thousands of pounds extra additional revenue over a twelve month period. So what else is that you could do in your business in 20 minutes that's going to potentially deliver that kind of result? Kelly Molson: Wow. There you go. I think you've said it all. Well done. Thank you. I really appreciate this. I threw this at you literally a few days ago to come on and they've had no time to prepare whatsoever. So I'm super grateful that you've given up a little bit of time for me to talk about it today. This is something that I'm so passionate about. I bloody love this podcast. I'm so lucky that I get to talk to such lovely people. And I think, like you've all said, just like, I mean, like echoing what Andy said, being able to make this industry better is something that is literally like at the core of me right now. I just want to see good people doing really good things and having really good results. Kelly Molson: So if everyone could please just go out and fill the Blooming survey and I'd be really grateful. Thank you. Right, books. Have you all prepared a book today? I didn't ask you to. I've got a book, but I feel like you might have. Right, throw it out. Dominic Jones: So I've got a book called The Alignment Advantage Transform Your Strategy, Culture and Customers to Succeed. Now, I love a good strategy book, so the last time I was on the podcast I recommended Good Strategy, Bad Strategy, a great book about strategy. I did bill it as the best book on strategy. Scrap that. It's the second best book on strategy. This is now the best book on strategy because it talks about how you have to align your culture and as a strategic enabler, your strategy and your experience. And for people who listen to Skip the Queue or fill out the Rubber Cheese Website Survey or work with Convious, one of the best people to work with in the world, they will love this book. It is incredible. The only book to read on Strategy by Richard Nugent, The Alignment Advantage. Fantastic. Dominic Jones: There is also an interview with a great guy from the Mary Rose in chapter two, I can't remember his name. I think it rhymes with Dominic Jones. I can't remember it fully, but it's very good to read.Kelly Molson: I knew that there was something like that coming. I knew, Dominic. Amazing. Thank you for another number one strategy book. Simon, what would your book be and have you featured in it? Simon Addison: I can say I have not featured in this book. Unlike Dom, I don't read a lot of business and leadership books. I tend to read for escapism and relaxation. But I have picked a workbook and it's probably the only workbook I've gone back to and reread portions of. And it's called Leadership: Plain and Simple by Steve Radcliffe. The book was a foundation of a leadership course that I did when I was at the National Trust, which was called Future Engage, Deliver. And it was centered on the idea that in order to be an effective leader, you need to have clarity of your vision for the future. You need to engage your colleagues and your teams in that future and then collectively, you need to work together to deliver it. And it sort of broke that strategy and leadership piece into those three distinct portions. Simon Addison: And it had some really helpful models in there for self reflection, for getting meaningful feedback from teams and developing techniques to engage stakeholders in the delivery of your vision. I would recommend that obviously it's not the first or the second best book on leadership, but maybe it's the third. Who knows?Kelly Molson: Love that. What's really interesting is these books. Both neither of those books have been recommended on the podcast before, so I always like it when a new ones come up because I add it onto my little wish list on Amazon. Dominic Jones: I'm going to read that book. I've not heard of that one, Simon, but that sounds amazing. I do love the book recommendations. I do the same. I go buy them. Except for the Harry Potter one.Kelly Molson: I already had and you knocked Geoff off as well, didn't you? Dominic Jones: Did I knock Geoff off? Kelly Molson: Yeah. Geoff was number one for quite a while. Dominic Jones: Is he no longer number one? Skip the Queue. Kelly Molson: No, did I not tell you that you are number one?Simon Addison: Once you edit this out, kelly, this is going to be a really short podcast episode. Kelly Molson: I'm leaving all of this in. Andy, what about you? Have you got a book that you'd like to share? Andy Povey: A book I'll keep going back to is The Experience Economy by Joe Pine. And I don't know whether someone else has recommended this in the past, but for me, that whole life chain value thing, the graph where you talk about a thing becoming a commodity and everything moving into the sort of experience space, really fits with what we're doing in our industry. It really fits with what we do at Convious. The reason I enjoy what we do. Kelly Molson: It's a good book. I'm going to ask Joe if he'll come on the podcast. Andy Povey: So I saw him talking at the Blooloop conference a few years ago. Absolutely compelling. Dominic Jones: Could he maybe talk at the January? Why don't we get him on 2025 podcast? Let's do that, right? Kelly Molson: Yeah, let's discuss it off the pod. Yeah, we'll discuss that later. Thank you all. I'm so grateful. Oh, as ever. Sorry, listeners. If you want to win a copy of those books, head over to our Twitter feed. You know what to do. Retweet this podcast announcement. But more importantly, go and fill in the survey. Be so grateful. Andy Povey: Fill in the survey. Kelly Molson: Fill in the survey. We have got, actually a podcast exclusive. Let me tell you how many attractions have taken part so far. Last year, 2022, 70 attractions from up and down the country took part. This year with a week well, actually, it's two weeks today, but a week to go. When this podcast launches, 129 attractions have taken part. So we've nearly doubled on last year. I'm so thrilled. But, yeah, if we could get that to 140, that would be amazing. Imagine 140 attractions being able to improve their websites this year, being able to improve their customer service, being able to improve their bottom line. That's what it's all about. Thanks, guys. You've been amazing. Simon Addison: Thanks, Kelly. Dominic Jones: Incredible.Andy Povey: Thank you, Kelly. Kelly Molson: Thanks for listening to Skip the Queue. If you've enjoyed this podcast, please leave us a five star review. It really helps others find us. And remember to follow us on Twitter for your chance to win the books that have been mentioned. Skip The Queue is brought to you by Rubber Cheese, a digital agency that builds remarkable systems and websites for attractions that helps them increase their visitor numbers. You can find show notes and transcriptions from this episode and more over on our website, rubbercheese.com/podcast.

We are so excited to wrap up this final episode of 1521 with discussing Chapter 18 and Ate's Judy's brief Conclusion chapter! Citations stemming from St. Bernadette Soubirous to Roman Baths, Filipino bathing habits to holy water; Your Ates discuss how this chapter intricately touches into the sacredness of pre-colonial relations to water. Follow us on Instagram: Podcast - @babaylanbruhabookclub Stephanie - @st3ph.inrising Imee - @themayarimoon Subscribe to our YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCJpjbGCP5WwlB2vPmaQUWjA End music written, produced and recorded by Dayana Capulong. (C) Dayana Capulong, 2022 ____________________________________________________ Time Stamps: Grounding Prayer & Opening @ 1:25 Bruha Tings! @ 3:33 BROWN GIRL CLIFF NOTES @ 13:19 Vocabulary Words @ 16:15 Quotes + Conclusion@ 26:25 Closing Prayer @ 43:38

Last month, D.C. Mayor Muriel Bowser announced the District had inked a deal with a company seeking to build a massive $500 million complex in the city. No, it's not for a new Commander's stadium or swanky hotel. The agreement is with an Austrian-based company that hopes to build an indoor spa and waterpark the size of 10 baseball fields somewhere in the nation's capital. Chief Development Officer at Therme Group US Omar Toro-Vaca is overseeing the possible construction of a DC Therme. He comes o n the show to talk about what is a Therme, where it would go, and who is going to pay for it. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Last month, D.C. Mayor Muriel Bowser announced the District had inked a deal with a company seeking to build a massive $500 million complex in the city. No, it's not for a new Commander's stadium or swanky hotel. The agreement is with an Austrian-based company that hopes to build an indoor spa and waterpark the size of 10 baseball fields somewhere in the nation's capital. Chief Development Officer at Therme Group US Omar Toro-Vaca is overseeing the possible construction of a DC Therme. He comes o n the show to talk about what is a Therme, where it could go, and who is going to pay for it. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoicesSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Last month, D.C. Mayor Muriel Bowser announced the District had inked a deal with a company seeking to build a massive $500 million complex in the city. No, it's not for a new Commander's stadium or swanky hotel. The agreement is with an Austrian-based company that hopes to build an indoor spa and waterpark the size of 10 baseball fields somewhere in the nation's capital. Chief Development Officer at Therme Group US Omar Toro-Vaca is overseeing the possible construction of a DC Therme. He comes o n the show to talk about what is a Therme, where it could go, and who is going to pay for it. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

With the sunny weather outside, we felt it was time to republish this episode about Bath Thermae Spa. Bath in the southwest of England is famous for its Roman baths. In its Regency heyday, the supposedly curative waters attracted the cream of British society…and of course, Jane Austen. 2,000 years later, the  waters were re-harnessed in the magnificent thermal spa located just a soap bath's throw away from the original. Music: © Barney & Izzi Hardy 

We are ten days away. Members of my Samita Lab Mastermind head to Tuscany for the annual retreat. All 8 are giving a Tedx style talk on a NYC stage November 16th. The retreat is a time for deep reflection and writing time to flesh out the message each will leave the audience. Afterwards, I return to Florence to host a VIP Day.  I'm excited to take my one on one client to the Roman Baths.  I'm delighted to do yoga at sunset, overlooking the Duomo.  However, the most important place I wish to take her is to Michelangelo's David at the Galleria dell'Accademia di Firenze.  Audio here.I'm fascinated by Michangelo's story. Since he was 17 years old, he was obsessed with the human form since he was 17.  How would he carve the human body in marble, stone or any other material if he didn't understand the dips and the connections of muscles. He would steal away to the morgue in the local hospital to study the cadavers in the morgue. However, his father was poor and had serious doubts about Michelangelo's ability to make a living as an artist. He wanted his son to go into business. Michelangelo would lie to his dad, saying he was commissioned to sculpt this statue or that in order to get the project. It wasn't that he wasn't getting commissions, but perhaps not for the florins his father had hoped. In 1501, Michelangelo lobbied to take a crack at sculpting something from an abandoned 17 foot piece of marble. It had been lying fallow in the Duomo's backyard, baking in the Mediterranean sun, doing a whole lot of nothing. Two artists had started and failed.  Michelangelo was convinced he was the man to create something magnificent from it. When finished, David was placed in the Palazzo Vecchio, with much fanfare and celebration. It was a symbol of Florentine independence and spirit. When asked, how Michelangelo created this magnificent piece of work, he replied, "I removed everything that wasn't David." This is the message I want to share with my client. Often, women leaders want to talk about EVERYTHING they are qualified to talk about. We are spending her VIP Day, going through a series of exercises to find out THE ONE thing people she will be known for. The thing I notice women forget is that your ONE THING, needs to be repeatable. If you are writing an essay or a laundry list every time someone asks "What's your one thing?" it's not repeatable. Its not repeatable nor clear for someone to put you up for an opportunity.  She and I will figure out this ONE THING and then forge a content plan and calendar to position herself as a thought leader around it.Coming to Italy is a huge big step.I can take one more client in Florence. Join the waitlist here.Joya is currently enrolling members for strategy days in Paris Florence Barcelona Istanbul info@joyadass.com

Send us a textToday's chat is with Rebecca West, Marketing Manager responsible for one of the most visited pay-to-enter visitor attractions in the UK outside London - the Roman Baths. I was lucky enough to speak to Becca, just days before she started maternity leave to have her first baby. In fact by the time this podcast comes out, she might have some exciting news!Rebecca's official title is Heritage Marketing Manager working for Bath & North East Somerset Council, where she is not only responsible for the Roman Baths, she also promotes the Fashion Museum, Victoria Art Gallery and the brand new for 2022 World Heritage Centre - a free to enter experience that tells visitors why Bath is such an important UNESCO World Heritage site. We talk about the impact of COVID on the Roman Baths, their changing visitor markets and how they are constantly adapting their offering while making sure that the visitor experience is as good as possible.The Fashion Museum is in the process of being relocated and is not expected to reopen for at least another five years, so we discuss what is happening with that amazing collection and how they are keeping the museum's stories alive through other means. In the podcast she talks about some of their online storytelling, in particular their Roman Women's series on YouTube.Rebecca shares how her career has led her to the Roman Baths and how mud was involved in her most memorable experience at Westonbirt Arboretum.Rebecca's favouritesPlace to visit: Devon & Cornwall for camping and surfing Place to eat: Bravas, BristolPlace to shop: AnthropologieConnect with Rebecca on LinkedInFind out more:Roman BathsBath World HeritageVictoria Art GalleryFashion Museum BathVisit BathOther mentions in the show:Westonbirt ArboretumRoman Women series on YouTo share your views on this subject and ask questions about the episode, head over to:InstagramLinkedIn This episode is sponsored by Hello Starling. Hello Starling, is an award-winning Media Planning and Buying agency that specialises in delivering advertising campaigns with great results for visitor attractions and destinations. They've worked with brands such as Bristol Zoo Project, Visit Shropshire, Visit Conwy, Visit Herefordshire and the National Tourism Office for Poland. If you want to be the centre of attention, visit hellostarling.com today. FREE GUIDE - 6 Steps to finding your Ideal Customer Do you want to know who your ideal customer's are and how you can focus your time and money reaching them? Download my FREE guide now. If you have enjoyed this podcast episode, please take a moment to give me a few stars on Apple podcasts or Spotify, it helps to encourage more people to listen and learn from our stories.

Today's chat is with Rebecca West, Marketing Manager responsible for one of the most visited pay-to-enter visitor attractions in the UK outside London - the Roman Baths. I was lucky enough to speak to Becca, just days before she started maternity leave to have her first baby. In fact by the time this podcast comes out, she might have some exciting news!Rebecca's official title is Heritage Marketing Manager working for Bath & North East Somerset Council, where she is not only responsible for the Roman Baths, she also promotes the Fashion Museum, Victoria Art Gallery and the brand new for 2022 World Heritage Centre - a free to enter experience that tells visitors why Bath is such an important UNESCO World Heritage site. We talk about the impact of COVID on the Roman Baths, their changing visitor markets and how they are constantly adapting their offering while making sure that the visitor experience is as good as possible.The Fashion Museum is in the process of being relocated and is not expected to reopen for at least another five years, so we discuss what is happening with that amazing collection and how they are keeping the museum's stories alive through other means. In the podcast she talks about some of their online storytelling, in particular their Roman Women's series on YouTube.Rebecca shares how her career has led her to the Roman Baths and how mud was involved in her most memorable experience at Westonbirt Arboretum.Rebecca's favouritesPlace to visit: Devon & Cornwall for camping and surfing Place to eat: Bravas, BristolPlace to shop: AnthropologieConnect with Rebecca on LinkedInFind out more:Roman BathsBath World HeritageVictoria Art GalleryFashion Museum BathVisit BathOther mentions in the show:Westonbirt ArboretumRoman Women series on YouTubeSkip the Queue podcastEPISODE SPONSORSWith thanks to sponsors Plate restaurant in Bath.   Plate are offering 20% off their food bill if you follow their Instagram account and DM them the Huge thanks to podcast sponsor Noble Performs. Noble provide Unstoppable digital marketing to maximise your performance. From SEO to Paid Social and more, we have the tools you need.Find out more about host Kelly Ballard and the Visitor Elves here.Subscribe to the Visitor Elves newsletter, to receive the latest podcast releases and inspirational tips to help you with your visitor economy business. To comment and ask questions about the episode, head over to: InstagramLinkedIn If you have enjoyed this podcast episode, please take a moment to give me a few stars on Apple podcasts or Spotify, it helps to encourage more people to listen and learn from our stories.

Where you bean?!:Rica talks about Roman Baths (04:44) and meeting big time BBC producers (11:56), and JC shares his new favorite binge-worthy show (19:06)TT's: This week we talk about a controversial stage-move from singer Michael Pangilinan (23:42), a Filipina traveller who was asked for a Yearbook at Philippine Immigration (38:04), and Oscar glory for 'Everything, Everywhere, All At Once' and the awkward Hugh Grant red carpet interview (49:39)Random Reddit: We talk strange theories regarding the disappearance of Malaysian Airlines flight MH370 (01:08:34)Join us online to participate in the discussion, Instagram: @halohaloshow. Join Our FB Group 'THE HALO HALO SHOW LECHE FAM'.https://www.instagram.com/halohaloshow(GET OUR MERCH! Deets on the gram)Follow our new FB PAGE:"THE HALO HALO SHOW LECHE FAM"Tweet us @thehalohaloshow#TheHaloHaloShow@ricaggg@itsmejayseeLeche-Fan Mail:thehalohaloshow@gmail.comRecorded using the ELGATO WAVE 1 Microphones, go get one! Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Skip the Queue is brought to you by Rubber Cheese, a digital agency that builds remarkable systems and websites for attractions that helps them increase their visitor numbers. Your host is  Kelly Molson, Founder of Rubber Cheese.Download the Rubber Cheese 2022 Visitor Attraction Website Report - the first digital benchmark statistics for the attractions sector.If you like what you hear, you can subscribe on iTunes, Spotify, and all the usual channels by searching Skip the Queue or visit our website rubbercheese.com/podcast.If you've enjoyed this podcast, please leave us a five star review, it really helps others find us. And remember to follow us on Twitter for your chance to win the books that have been mentioned in this podcastCompetition ends July 31st 2023. The winner will be contacted via Twitter.  Show references: https://arival.travel/https://twitter.com/douglasquinbyhttps://www.linkedin.com/in/douglasquinby/ Douglas Quinby co-founded Arival to fill the huge void in insights, information and conferences for travel's third-largest and most important sector: Tours, Activities & Attractions. Since its founding in 2016, Arival has become the defining platform for the sector, with three conferences worldwide, a series of definitive research reports and the Arival.travel media site and newsletter.  Prior to co-founding Arival he served as Senior Vice President, Research at Phocuswright, where he led seminal studies on numerous travel trends and sectors, including Tours, Activities & Attractions, as well as programming for Phocuswright conferences around the world. Transcriptions: Kelly Molson: Welcome to Skip the Queue, a podcast for people working in or working with visitor attractions. I'm your host, Kelly Molson. Each episode, I speak with industry experts from the attractions world. In today's episode, I speak with Douglas Quinby, cofounder and CEO of Arival. Douglas and I chat through a few topics covering the economic outlook for 2023, the big shift in discovering new experiences, ticketing tech, and a little bit on dynamic pricing. If you like what you hear, you can subscribe on itunes, Spotify, and all the usual channels by searching Skip the Queue. Kelly Molson: Douglas, thank you so much for joining me on the Skip the Queue podcast today. I'm so excited that you could come on. Douglas Quinby: Well beyond thrilled to be here. Thanks so much for the invitation, Kelly. Kelly Molson: Very, very welcome. Straight into our ice breakers. So, Doug, I would like to know, do you have any hidden talents that we should know about? Douglas Quinby: Hidden talents? Let's see. I actually was a music major in college and I have a music degree and studied composition and piano. Haven't done much with that talent in some time, much to my wife's chagrin. She complains about it and I get a little embarrassed about it, like, we'll have friends over and she wants me to play the piano for everybody, and I get a little self conscious about it. So that's actually one of my commitments to my wife, is I'm going to get our piano tuned, I'm going to start practicing again, and I'm not going to be bashful about playing when we have people over or when she wants me to. Kelly Molson: I think that is such a wonderful talent. I genuinely said to my husband it a couple of weeks ago, if there was two things that I could do, one would be I'd really love to be good at languages, and then I would really love to learn to play the piano. I think it's great to be able to do that. Do you not find it quite mindful as well when you play? Douglas Quinby: Well, I do, and actually, when we had our two boys, I made a deliberate effort of teaching them to play piano. And so for years, I would sit down every day, or maybe almost every day, four or five days a week and make them practice. And we also hired a teacher to come in. But a lot of stress with that, with forcing two boys to play the piano and sit down every day. And I can tell you it was not always mindful and peaceful. Anyone who's raising kids will know, right. So I think when they turn 15, like, okay, if you want to go and do something else, that's fine. Douglas Quinby: And I just took a pause from the whole thing, so but, yes, I think as you get older yeah, I would get back in and there are moments when you can be mindful and just relaxing and pleasant. Kelly Molson: Okay. All right, next one. What is your ultimate guilty pleasure song? Douglas Quinby: A guilty pleasure song. Oh, yeah, I know, but I don't know the name. Kelly Molson: Are you going to sing it for us? Douglas Quinby: Oh, goodness. What's the song? There's also that song by the Black Eyed Peas. I'm terrible with names. Kelly Molson: I've got a feeling. Douglas Quinby: Yeah. So that's one. Like, sometimes I'll put that on with my boys in the car and we'll totally jam out together. Like we're dancing around stage. But no, let me. Okay. Now, that's important. This is an important question. Kelly Molson: It is an important question. I genuinely thought that you were going to break out into song and do it that way, Doug. I thought that was where you'll go over this. And if you want, feel free. Douglas Quinby: Oh, my goodness. Gosh. It's also what happens when you get older. I just find..Kelly Molson: The suspense is killing us. An easier final question for you. What is the one thing you would like to do this year that you've never done before? Douglas Quinby: Well, this is going to be a kind of boring one. I've had a pretty amazing career. I've been able to travel to so many different places and have so many amazing experiences, and in particular, working in what we at Arival, we call the best part of travel. Right. So tours, activities and attractions all of those things that travellers do when they get there. I've been beyond fortunate to have an opportunity to just meet so many amazing people whose whole lives are all about delivering amazing experiences to people. So I've done things like when I was in Dubai ATM through an industry connection. We did a climb up a sand dune in Sharjah. And then when we came down, we had an ice bucket, like an ice immersion experience, things like that. When I think about bucket list stuff, I don't know. Douglas Quinby: To me, that's not as important. My commitment this year is my 17 year old is in his senior year in school, and he's going to be going to college in the fall. And I've had so much travel and devoted so much of my life to starting my career and then starting Arival and building it over the past five years or keeping it afloat over the last two. And so now I'm actually committed to I'm not doing any travel other than what's absolutely essential until he goes to school. And I'm going to spend as much time as possible with him and make sure that he knows as he goes off into the world, how much his father is behind him and has his back. Kelly Molson: That's a great answer to the question, Doug. And I think that is the most brilliant thing that he could be able to do right now. And I'm sure that he will very much appreciate that time with you as well. Douglas Quinby: Well, I hope so. Nothing more important. Kelly Molson: Absolutely not. Right, Doug. It is time for your unpopular opinion. What have you prepared for us today? Douglas Quinby: Well, my unpopular opinion well, I don't know if it's unpopular or not. You can tell me. But I'm continually amazed at how terrible so many attractions are at marketing to travellers and understanding the traveller psyche and understanding how travel distribution works. And it's completely different from how a kind of a local thinks about visiting an attraction or having an experience. And so how you find them, how you target them, how you get into their mindset. That's one piece and then the other piece is also understanding travel distribution and the systems and how to optimise that. It's something that's dramatically overlooked. So here's just one example. Douglas Quinby: In fact, one of the things that we do at Arival constantly is where we pulse the industry on a variety of trends to get a sense of what's happening, especially over the past two and a half years, which has been so crazy for all of us. Well, now, I guess it's three years now, is it? It is It is almost it's coming up on three years since the pandemic started. So just here's one example. In 2022, in a survey we had done, of almost 400 attractions over the past year, 23% are not using a modern booking or ticketing system to manage their business. To me, it's incomprehensible. I have a hard time wrapping my head around it. I mean, think about it from an airline perspective or a hotel perspective. Imagine if 23% of airlines did not use a central reservation system. Douglas Quinby: Or imagine if 23% of hotels did not have a property management system. I mean, travel wouldn't exist, right? The way it does today. It wouldn't even be possible. So I find it interesting. It's a real challenge to the industry and it's very common, I think, across experiences. People get into this business or an attraction is started because it's based on a mission. They may have a cultural mission. It may be a notforprofit. They may or they may be passionate about, like, say in the case of the tours world, like they want to be out in the water taking people on kayak tours or walking them up a mountain. Douglas Quinby: But at the same time, to have a business, to be able to deliver those experiences, to be able to advance the cultural mission, you want to have as many people come to your attraction as possible. You want to share that. And that requires an investment in the operation and the business. It requires understanding who the customer is. But it's a natural thing of most businesses. You tend to be focused on your own product or your own thing, but you also have to shift and think about the orientation of the customer and where they are and what they're looking for. I don't know if it's an unpopular opinion because frankly, it's just a fact. It's just a fact when I see how most attractions market their experience to travellers and the challenges that the travel industry has. Douglas Quinby: For example, in accessing attraction ticket inventory, when I see that less than 1% of attractions worldwide engage in any kind of dynamic pricing which is not just a tool to charge more money, it's actually a tool for things like optimising the guest experience because you can more effectively disperse your customer demand over the course of a day or a week in order to make it a better experience for everybody.  There's so much opportunity that's missed in the world of attractions. Kelly Molson: I would love to know what listeners think about this. So, as ever, if you want to feedback on Doug's unpopular opinion on our Twitter account, feel free. There's definitely a conversation. I mean, there's a whole podcast piece around your unpopular opinion. I think there Doug. We're going touch on a couple of the subject matters from it today. But yeah, I think there's a whole piece around exploring that. I don't know how unpopular it is because I would tend to agree with you. And I think, like you said, it is a fact. I think the attractions industry has moved on dramatically from a digital perspective in the last three years. Kelly Molson: They were forced to move quicker, they were forced to innovate, they were forced to introduce things that they might have been thinking about doing them, but might have taken another two or three years to actually implement because they had to. But I think that some of those decisions and some of the things that they've implemented have been done in a quite rudimentary way because there was a time element attached to it. In the UK, attractions couldn't open unless they could do pre booked and timed tickets. Small attractions, I mean, all of a sudden you've got to have the infrastructure to be able to implement that. You've got to find the right booking system, you've got to be able to pay for those things for you to be able to open safe. Douglas Quinby: Yeah, but this stuff is not this is not rocket science. No one needs to have expertise in artificial intelligence or you don't need to. In fact, a lot of the systems that are out there today, and this is one of the most amazing things in the world of, say, in the tours and activities segment of the experiences industry, which has many more smaller businesses, there's been an absolute revolution over the past decade. There has been literally dozens upon dozens of startups that have stepped into the market. They offer very simple, easy to use, SaaS platforms. You can get your business up and running within a couple of days, if not less. You get your tickets loaded and you flip a switch and you can start selling that stuff directly through online travel agencies, through other resellers. You can set different rules. Douglas Quinby: And this is stuff where often there's not even an upfront cost, it's just your own internal resources. So there's been a dramatic change within the enterprise software side of the sector that has opened up all of these avenues to this industry. Now, of course, it's one thing if you're a small tour company and you do five or six departures a week, and you're a one or two person shop and you're a visitor attraction with thousands or tens of thousands of guests a year.  Douglas Quinby: And you've got operations and you have a board or you have of course, there's a lot of other things to consider there as well. There's no reason for it. And again, I think for attractions, especially those that have a not for profit mission, some of the great and even where I live in Atlanta, Georgia, there are some terrific and very small local museums and places to visit that explore history of the south in small towns here outside of Atlanta, for example, or the Atlanta the City History Museum. But accessing the content and discovering it as a consumer is hard. It's not easy. So it's just a huge missed opportunity. Douglas Quinby: Of course, there's a lot of the big attractions, the great ones, they do a great job and there are many amazing. I want to be clear, too, there are many incredible travel marketers within the world of attractions, right? And you all know who you are and you're out there. So I just want to say, for those of you like, this is not aimed at you, but it is aimed at, I think, the mid to long tail of amazing experience operators out there that could just benefit. So much more and not just benefit themselves commercially, but benefit people who haven't experienced their attraction, haven't experienced their museum or that little that special thing that they create that could delight so many more people. Kelly Molson: Yeah, I agree. There's a lot to pick here, Doug. Well, let's go back to what you said. So in the UK, so 2022, we really focused a lot about staffing challenges and the rising cost of labour. That was a huge topic across the board. That's still a challenge. But in the UK especially, we have got currently a very high cost of living crisis. Utility costs have been driven up predominantly by the war against Ukraine. We have attractions that are reporting a rise of between 200 and 900% in their electricity gas bills. So there's been a recent publication in The Guardian saying that rising costs have led to staff redundancies. They've curtailed open hours and nine out of ten sites fear that they could close permanently, and that's in castles, museums and theatres. That's really drastic. That's the real bad end of what's going on at the moment. Kelly Molson: We've had things like train strikes in the UK, which are a necessary evil. I personally am, for one, support the rail strikes, but they do have a huge impact, especially on theatres. People that are going into London suddenly can't get into London, or they have to drive into London, and it bumps the cost up for parking. All kinds of things going on. There's still very few visits from international travellers, although that's on the rise. But Asia is only just opening up the borders, so we still have a lot of attractions that are very heavily dependent on international tourism that are nowhere near back to the visitor numbers that they did, that they should be out and just to throw into the rigs. Kelly Molson: We know from speaking to many attractions that marketing budgets are looking to be cut this year because of the high cost of utilities being risen. So marketing budgets could be cut by about 15% to 20% in the UK. What does it look like, Doug, for you? You're US based, but you speak to a lot of US and international and European based attractions. Is it a similar story there? What's happening? Douglas Quinby: It's not, actually. Fortunes are quite mixed. I think the UK in particular and parts of Europe are being hit especially hard. In the United States, it's a very different picture. In fact, it's one of the most confusing times in terms of trying to forecast what the economy is going to do. Everyone is talking about recession. It seems like the Federal Reserve here is committed to putting the country into recession by tamping down inflation and raising interest rates. But at the same time, our federal government has just pushed through, at the end of last year, a $1.7 trillion spending package. And so it seems like we've got the Fed and the government kind of at odds in terms of where the economy should be going. We are seeing mass layoffs. Douglas Quinby: Well, mass layoffs is probably a strong word, but widespread layoffs in certain sectors like tech and in certain areas of the corporate world, an expectation that earnings are going to be depressed. And this is in the US. But I think also globally through the first half of this year. Yet at the same time, the labour market is extremely tight. There's a lot of demand. We just had our conference in Las Vegas in October, and for all the talk of recession, the hotels were full, the casinos were packed. We had a hard time getting restaurant reservations to feed the team during the event. So it's a very confusing time. I think one of the things that I think every attraction needs to be thinking about and honestly, it's not even an attraction. Douglas Quinby: What I'm going to say is I think it applies to all industries, although I think in particular with regard to travel and to experiences because one, there's still very clear demand for getting out and doing things. We're still very much in a kind of COVID hangover. We see from all of our consumer sentiment work that they are prioritising getting out and doing things, being with people, with the people they love, having experiences whether it's local or it's travel. We measure this across a variety of ways, but just in a very simple way. Three out of five kind of Gen Z and young millennials are clearly prioritising experiences over stuff. That's where they're spending their money. That number actually jumps to almost three and four for Gen Z and millennials who are in that upper income bracket. Douglas Quinby: For us, that metric is a household income of 150,000 USD or up. And that's actually for us, that's very important and for all attractions and experience providers to think about because we really have to put it very simply, a kind of bifurcated consumer landscape. I think of it as the haves and the havesums. So you have the lower middle income segment and this applies to the US and Europe where, okay, they are being more directly affected by inflation, by rising cost of living, and a little bit by more the kind of recessionary impacts which are a bit deeper in Europe than they are in the US. And so yes, their spend is going to be a bit muted around travel and around experiences and they're going to be a bit more price sensitive. Douglas Quinby: But you also have this upper income segment which we see despite everything that's happening in the world, there's no the gas is on the pedal all the way down. They're going for it. They intend to spend, do more, they want to travel more, they want to see more. And also we've seen an extraordinary shift coming out of the pandemic, which I think of it as like a post COVID kind of convulsion period that we're in right now. Just to give you and this is in a recent report that we've a research, report on the experiences traveller and the global attractions traveller that we've published over the past couple of months where just a dramatic shift in the demand for small group and private experiences, even around attractions. Douglas Quinby: So as I've been covering this industry for many years, we've always seen it's been the iconic visitor attractions that have been the primary driver of tourism. I want to go to London and go to see the Tower. I want to go to the National Gallery or I'm going to Paris. I got to go to the Louvre, I've got to go to Buzzed or say and so on and so forth. But increasing, well, not just increasingly.  Douglas Quinby: It's been a dramatic shift as travellers have come back. It's not just that I want to get a ticket to the Coliseum, but I want to have a private or special small group experience with my friends and family. I'm going to book that tour that will include the ticket, but I want all the bells and whistles or yes, I want to go to the top of the edge in New York with my fiance, with my wife. I want to do the Champagne Sunset Experience and I'm going to pay twice the price and we're going to linger there and have that's the kind of extraordinary shift that we're seeing. And I've been saying this very clearly, one for any experienced operator or attraction, one understand who your customers are. Are they more price sensitive or are they more in the kind of the haves? Right? Douglas Quinby: Or if you serve both, then how can you really think about the products that you offer in a way to get the most out of them or deliver the best? And so a really great example is that it's not just the ticket to the top but it's the ticket to the top with the Champagne experience at a special time of day. Or maybe it's offering a VIP behind the scenes experience or a special meal or something that just makes it a little bit more special and there's just a real opportunity to sell more and to do more for that. Right? And then I think the one last thought is for those travellers or visitors that are a bit more price sensitive, really to think about, definitely you don't want to get into the discount game. Douglas Quinby: I'm always very vehemently opposed to discounting unless it's done in a way that really can help you drive demand during low volume periods, but really to think about how can you deliver more, maybe deliver more value, right? Or more incentives. So maybe build something in to the experience, to the ticket or through a membership or subscription that creates a sense of more value for the guests. But don't simply go to discounting, especially at a time like this when we're all feeling pressure from the bottom up in terms of our balance sheets. Kelly Molson: Great advice. And what you've described is exactly what we've been talking about as well and what we've been hearing. So just before Christmas, I attended the Heads, a marketing meeting that ALVA run and Bernard Donoghue talked exactly the same scenarios that you just had. It is down to the experience. People will pay more, but they are looking for something that is outside of the ordinary now. So it's not just about come to the attraction, come to see this thing, what does that package look like? How can you exploit what you have in a more interesting way for the audience that are already going to come but they'll probably spend more if you have this VIP package or this next level package if we talk about. A question for you. So we talked about the haves and the have not as much. Kelly Molson: So how did you define it? Douglas Quinby: The haves and the have-sums. Kelly Molson: The haves and the have-sums. Okay, so the haves and the have-sums. Where do you think this fits in terms of membership? Because that's been quite a big discussion topic recently in that during the pandemic membership sales went up phenomenally, astronomically actually. So it was an altruistic purchase. You were doing what you could to support your favourite attraction while they couldn't open. What we're starting to see is a decline in people renewing memberships because of how nervous the cost of living crisis is making people. And the assumption that Bernard described this dispute is that previously if you had a membership, so I have a membership for the National Trust, your previous mindset would be, "Oh well, let's go to the local National Trust today because that's free because we've got our membership, we've already paid for that". And you wouldn't really think about the secondary spend. Kelly Molson: So you're going to buy lunch while you're there or you might get something in the gift shop. Whereas now people are starting to go, "that's not a free visit for us anymore". So we need to think about whether we go, what we spend while we're there. So maybe we take a packed lunch rather than we buy in the cafe, which is obviously then going to start to have a significant effect on the attraction itself. How can organisations do better with their memberships to kind of help those people that maybe have them and are thinking about letting them go? Douglas Quinby: That's a really tough one, especially in this environment in the UK. And I think again, it comes down to what more can you layer in to really make it valuable? So what kind of additional kind of benefits or perks or things can you expand to really tie that in? But that's something that I think really has to be addressed at the attraction level. There's no way around this. You've got to understand your customer and who they are. Why did they become a member? What were the key drivers and how can you keep that going? I can tell you, for us, when our kids were younger, were members of the zoo here in Atlanta. We were members of another museum, a local science museum that we would take the kids to on a regular basis. Douglas Quinby: But as the kids aged out, weren't going as much, right? And there wasn't a need. And their programming or their content was not compelling enough for us to stay with it. For example, now since they've actually introduced some things like at the science museum, like you can go to the observatory and they have cocktails under the stars at night and things like that, which might be a little bit more interesting for parents to still be involved. There's no, I think, blanket easy answer for the industry as a whole. That's something that you've really got to understand your triggers and what do your guests really value the most about the membership and what are things that you can do to really kind of leverage that to drive that engagement. But there's one thing too, I'm just going to throw out there. Douglas Quinby: This is maybe more of an idea I think could be, I don't know, a million dollar idea or 100 million dollar idea within this sector. One of the businesses that has been a clear use case for travellers is that City Attraction Pass, right where you come into a city and you can buy that pass. You give access to so many attractions, and you get so many visits over the course of four or five days, or whatever the duration of the passes that you purchase. But there's a missing, I think, business opportunity within the world of experiences, which is the equivalent of like a multi attraction membership. There's actually an interesting little startup based in New York called Sesame which is doing something where you basically you pay almost a negligible. Douglas Quinby: I think it's like 15 or $20 a year, and you get access to opaque pricing, to attractions all over the world, but even just something where you become So I guess the corollary I think of is something like class pass in the US. Or gym pass where you subscribe to the service and you can get access to gyms all over the country or to yoga classes or whatever it might be. And I think there's a huge opportunity for some entrepreneurial startup to step in and aggregate a lot of this content in a subscription or a membership service, or you can do a zip line in North Georgia and then you can go to a National Trust experience somewhere in the UK and you can do this and you can do that. Douglas Quinby: And to build that in, I think there's an incredible opportunity there for something like that. A multi attraction subscription or membership service. Yeah. So I'm going to throw that out as my 100 billion dollar idea for some listener to your podcast. Kelly Molson: There you go, listeners who's going to grab it and run with it. It's a really good idea. As you were speaking, I was just thinking we work with a number of attractions on the North Norfolk in the North Norfolk area, which is a lovely coastal area in the UK. And like a Norfolk path for all of the attractions would be incredible because they're all within an hour's drive of each other. So something like that could work really well for those regional areas. So, yeah. All right. There you go. Norfolk attractions. What are you saying? Hit us up. Okay, let's talk about, you wrote a brilliant blog last September called The Future of Discovery in Travel. Very welcome. It's excellent. And it's about the big shift in experiences, discovery, and marketing. So we know that marketing teams are stretched in attractions. Kelly Molson: They're normally on the small side, and they're doing a million different jobs at once. We also know that they need a really clear strategy, and they also need to focus on the right time, on the right channels for them to find where their existing audiences and where their new audiences are. And we've talked a little bit about it's really vital at the moment to know exactly who your audiences are and where they are. This blog, you start off with a really great story about your son, and I wondered if you could just share the story about your son and sneakers. It's a great start and introduction to this. Douglas Quinby: Yeah, sure, I'm happy to. Well, so first there's a paradigm within the travel industry. There's a phrase that's used quite a bit called the "Path to Purchase". And there's a well worn paradigm. It's almost accepted, like gospel within the industry of how a traveller goes about finding where they want to go, what they want to do, all of that stuff. And there was a study that I think was done maybe, I don't know, 10, 12 years ago that was sponsored by Expedia that kind of walks through the path to purchase. You start on Google, you do a search, and then statistically, you visit 38 websites across online travel agencies and review sites like TripAdvisor and whatnot. And from that you kind of figure out, okay, where you want to go. And then you go through the actual shopping phase. Douglas Quinby: You do your flights and your accommodation, and then you get your things to do or experiences, which are often you're booking that the day of travel or very close in or even while you're in destination. So that's the kind of well worn path of like, Google to OTAs to booking sites and, you know, boom, you're off. But I've been I was just struck by something. So this happened in the spring where one day this package arrived at our house, and it was this pair of sneakers. It was like this $200 pair of sneakers that my 17 year old bought. And I mean, first of all, I have no idea where he got $200 to buy a pair of sneakers, but that's a secondary issue. So I was just curious. Douglas Quinby: It was like a designer pair of sneakers, like a certain type of Nike or something, but it wasn't something maybe you'd go into a Nike store and find I don't know, I just asked him, “How did you choose this pair of sneakers?” You have a teenage boy, they don't talk, they don't tell you anything, right? So that was like, I'm never going to find out the answer to that. But one of the things that I definitely know is I know how he didn't buy those sneakers. I know he didn't go on to Google. I know he didn't visit 38 different sneaker websites to find the best sneaker at the best price, the best time. He didn't go through all of that process. Now, did he see somebody on TikTok or a friend of his on Instagram? I don't know. Douglas Quinby: Was it a friend of his at school who was wearing the sneakers? I have no idea. But that paradigm of how people find and discover what they want to do, what they're going to do, is shifting dramatically, especially for that teenage, that Gen Z, and even the younger millennial set in a very extraordinary way. So, in a great example, I was speaking to Dan Christian of Dharma, which is a tour company, who actually would be another great person for you to have on your podcast, by the way, who's very focused on the passion economy. Douglas Quinby: And he had this quote that sticks to my head, which is, "The tour happened to be in Costa Rica", which basically means increasingly younger people, they are connected to friends, they're connected to particular brands or experiences, or they're going to see something on TikTok or Instagram and they're going to say, "oh want to do that thing". And that is going to drive the whole path to purchase and I want to do that thing. Oh, that thing happens to be in Costa Rica, or that happens to be in London or whatever. It could be anywhere, but I want to do that thing with those people. And by the way, I'll say to you, I'm just a guy who runs an event and research company for attractions and experiences, but don't take my word for it. Douglas Quinby: Just look at what Google has done over the past year. They've completely and are continuing to revamp, in particular, their mobile search experience. And a VP at Google made an extraordinary statement at a conference, a tech conference last summer, where he said, we are seeing 40% of Gen Z. They are turning not to Google, not to Maps or search to find where to go or where to eat nearby. They're turning to Instagram, they're turning to TikTok. And it's amazing when you ask these young people and there was a great story in the New York Times about this, I think last August or September, where young people were saying they're being asked to compare, let's say, a review of a restaurant on TikTok versus a Google review. And it's like, I don't have to read anything because young people aren't reading. Douglas Quinby: They don't have to think. Literally, they're saying, "I don't have to think. I can just see the people at the restaurant. I can see them experiencing it. I can see myself in that. And that's the kind of experience I want to have, and that's all I need". And that's an extraordinary shift. So I think the next question you would probably ask is, okay, so what does that mean for an attraction or experienced operator? How do you deal with that, right? Especially when budgets are stretched and your marketing team has already got too much to do. Kelly Molson: You're suddenly asking them to take part and create shortfall video content. Right? That's the bottom line. We know that is the future of this type of search. That's a massive ask, isn't it? It seemed far more complex than sitting down and writing a blog article, for example. There's a lot more involvement in it. Douglas Quinby: I'm not asking to do anything. I'm just simply saying, "look, this is what's happening, and you all can decide what you want to do". That's up to you. But there is a profound shift that is underway. It's happening so quickly, it's hard to get your arms around. It's very hard to understand, okay, well, "do I suddenly stop spending my money on Facebook and Google and put everything into TikTok?" No, of course not. Right? But because there's still intentional demand on those channels, and we detail all of this in the research and the reports too, you can just very clearly see it. So in terms of where younger travellers are going to discover things to do. Douglas Quinby: So TikTok has already surpassed Twitter, and I think for Gen Z, it's going to surpass Facebook within the next probably in the next year or two. Because we can already see Facebook is now like, it's people my age, like it's Gen X and maybe older millennials, but it's really falling off for young folks. But it's not an either or. This is always the thing that kind of comes up, oh, well, it's another channel, that's marketing, that's never going to change. Your marketing teams are always going to be strapped. They're always going to have too much to do. It's. How are you going to work through that? So, yes, you still have to do Google, you still have to do Facebook, you still have to do the photos on Instagram. Douglas Quinby: But now you need to add reals, you need to add short form vertical video. And I would say you just begin by testing. And, you know, the best thing you can do, and there's so many great examples of this is hire one of these. Hire a young person who does this stuff. Hire a 22 year old who lives in this world and ask them to start creating stuff and give them some license just to do things. And there's so much great guidance out there as well on that. We've got some great content, too. We had an influencer at our Vegas event, a guy named Robbie Roth, who is an influencer for LGBTQ travel in general, and he gave some incredible sessions on how to deliver authenticity through social content. Douglas Quinby: He's all like, the number one thing, the next time you take a video, make sure it's vertical. Just everything has got to be vertical first and foremost. But just experiment and keep going and start to develop that muscle because it will become very important. It already is very important. Kelly Molson: So I had a couple of questions on this topic, I have to say, we've had a couple of brilliant past podcast guests that have come on and talked to us about building great social community channels. We had Danielle Nichols and Ross Ballinger come on from Drayton Manor, which is a theme park based in the UK. So they talked a lot about how they had started their TikTok channel, and they've just got a really great kind of social community that they've been able to build, and it allows them to engage with their community, ask them for feedback, and in turn, the community feels like they've got their back in decisions that have been made. Kelly Molson: The theme park went through a rebrand process a little while ago and they were really able to kind of engage with their audience because of the work that they put into it. Now I can totally see TikTok working for Drayton Manor, like even if they hadn't have done it already, I can see it because of the type of people that would go there, the thrill seekers, that kind of Gen Z, but where's the opportunity for the attraction sector that are very kind of family orientated? So we think about the team market that we've talked about. They're thinking about travel and experiences, potentially gap year, that kind of thing. But a lot of the attractions that we work with are really focused on that family marketing. So ultimately it's going to be the parents that are making those purchasing decisions. Kelly Molson: Is this still a channel that you think that there's opportunity for those kind of attractions? Douglas Quinby: Well, fine, the parents might be ultimately paying for it, but we're the kids. The kids are on TikTok and Instagram, they're not on Facebook. So that's number one. And the best way to get families there is to get kids excited about something. So that's even more of a reason to be on there. And also something that we've seen as well across every social media channel. Well, maybe not everyone, but most certainly is. It starts with kind of the younger, more digitally, kind of switched on generation, but very quickly becomes widely used across all generations. Right? We saw that in Facebook, we saw that in Instagram. We're seeing it in Twitter as well. Douglas Quinby: And the demographics for TikTok as well, I think I'm sure already rapidly evolving to cut across a range of generations. That should definitely be a part of the family kind of marketing plan. And to try to reach parents and show in particular kids having an amazing experience at your experiences is great. And by the way, those videos too, I point out as well, it's not just platform specific. Like we use TikTok and Instagram. That's what we're currently using because as the language or how we talk about this media format, because TikTok in particular has advanced this incredible idea of watching these 15, 30 second videos and then swiping up to the next one. But they've identified this extraordinary way to connect with people and make an experience or access to information really extraordinary shift. Douglas Quinby: And so I think we're going to see that basic principle of what they've learned be adopted by other platforms. So for example, I think back in December, the news broke that Amazon was launching a TikTok style video feed within the Amazon app initially going to be in the US. And a kind of a beta test so you could actually do discovery shopping within Amazon in a TikTok style video feed. I mean, obviously Instagram is going all in with reels you've got on YouTube. You now have YouTube shorts. And I've been noticing when I pop into YouTube every now and again, that sometimes they're experimenting with defaulting to shorts as opposed to the pull type of YouTube experience that they've done that I think we're more accustomed to. Douglas Quinby: I have also written about and I'm kind of waiting for a travel platform and really a travel experiences platform to experiment with a TikTok style shopping experience on their website. Because, you know, quite frankly, when I think about my 17 year old in his sneakers when he takes his first vacation, right? Or, you know, maybe when he goes off in his first college, you know, spring break trip, you know, with his friends, and let's say they go to the beach or something, and they're going to look for things to do. I mean, how is he going to find experiences? Is he going to go on to Google or via Tour or Expedia and say, oh well, let me find fishing trips or let me find this jetski rental or let me do this. Douglas Quinby: I think he's going to be on Instagram or one of his friends is going to be on TikTok and they're going to say, “Oh, I see this experience of these guys on a boat doing this. Doesn't look like fun, let's go find that”, right? And that's going to drive the search and the booking. I think that the model that TikTok is showing for all of us. I expect to see that replicate in some way. And I'm actually in the experiences world and travel in general, I'm still pretty shocked that you don't have the widespread use of a video in the shopping experience. Douglas Quinby: It's still very much like go in, there's a tour, there's all the inclusions, there's the exclusions, or I go onto an attraction site, or there's this ticket and I can do this and I can do that, and there's this, and I've got to read all this stuff. These guys, they don't want to read, they want to say, "Oh, there's this experience, there's this attraction. Let me see myself. Oh, that's great. I don't give a s*** about any of all the rules and all the things and I have to be here at ten and bring this. No, just show me this thing. Let's do it". That's the shift that I think has got to happen, and it's very common for product owners and marketers. Well, I've done all this work, I got to put all this detail out. But your customers, they don't care. Douglas Quinby: They don't want to know about the sausage and how it's made and all the details. Kelly Molson: Yeah, it's a bit like the tipping point from like, cookery books to cookery shows, isn't it? What's more engaging for someone, don't get me wrong, I've got a bookshelf full of cookery books out there, but actually, show me someone making it and show me the kind of sizzle and show me that I'm going to engage with that more. Douglas Quinby: Kelly, I'm going to go even further and I will tell you so one of the things that I did over the pandemic was since were all cooped up, so I just said, “you know, I'm going to learn to become a better cook,” right? Because it was mostly just hamburgers and pasta and sauce from a jar, right? Because both my wife and I were working and all crazy. And whatnot this was in 2020, early 2020, mid 2020, and TikTok was really becoming a phenomenon. So I downloaded TikTok and I started using it. And one of the first things that popped up was a recipe for Thai vegan lemongrass coconut pumpkin soup. And that's never anything I could have thought I would have been able to make. And it was a 30 second video. Douglas Quinby: It wasn't like a detailed recipe or anything, it was just a video of the bowl. And you see the hands and there's like nice music in the background and you just see everything that the person is doing and there's a little text. This is what the ingredient is. Then it's next. And so within 30 seconds, I watched this video and I'm like, “holy s***, I can do that. I can make that”. And that looks really amazing. And so I went and made it and it was amazing. And suddenly it was like, wait, I just watched a 30 second video. I could make something that was really what I thought in my mind would have been a real complex undertaking. Douglas Quinby: I think that's an extraordinary outcome from what TikTok I think is shown from a communication standpoint is how the genius and the possibility of delivering an extraordinary amount of information in a very short amount of time, but more importantly, making the viewer feel like they can relate to it, like they can participate. I can make that soup. I can have that experience. That's the power of that. And no incredible tour description page or attraction description page with a list of inclusions and exclusions and all of this. And, you know, it's not it's never going to be the same. Kelly Molson: It's never going to be the same. A 30 second video has empowered you to be a better chef. I love that, Doug. Douglas Quinby: Well, there you go.Kelly Molson: I want to talk a little bit about dynamic pricing. Gosh, we've been talking for ages and I feel like we've covered loads today, but I think this is really important to talk about. So there's different pricing strategies for attractions at the moment. So you've got the traditional kind of static price model where operators sell a ticket for the same time, same price, no matter when that ticket is purchased or when it's going to be used. You've got variable price and strategy which might be based on the day it's purchased or the time slot for when the ticket is purchased and each day is priced according to demand. I kind of like this approach. Kelly Molson: We had Simon Addison from Roman Baths come on and talk about their approach to this. And I think I find this approach quite empowering for the visitor because it gives them the choice of when they're going to come, depending on what they want to pay for that experience. But dynamic pricing is a strategy where attractions can adjust the prices of their offerings to account for changing demand. So, for instance, like, an airline will shift seat prices based on seat type or the number of remaining seats and the time until the flight as well. Now, that's what some attractions do, but it's actually quite a small minority at the moment, isn't it? Are we seeing an uptake in dynamic prices or are we still finding that it's just the big players that can actually use this strategy at the moment? Douglas Quinby: Yeah, well, so first, from our surveying, like it's less than 1% of attractions and operators are doing any type of dynamic pricing. And just to be very clear, the distinction between dynamic and variable. So a variable is something like, “okay, I'm going to have a different weekend price versus a weekday price or a different price for a 09:00 A.M entry on Monday versus a 03:00 P.M. entry on Saturday or something”. But those prices stay the same over the course of the season or over the course of the year. Whereas dynamic, it's like, “okay, it looks like my 03:00 slot on Saturday is nearly a capacity. We've only got 10% left. Let's increase the price by 5% or 7%”. So there's still pretty low uptick, very low, less than 1%. Douglas Quinby: However, we've also seen in our surveying, in terms of technical technology related priorities, that is one of the in fact, the top priority for visitor attractions heading into next year, I think it was 57%. So that they were looking at it very seriously and were quite interested, which is a really big deal. And so one piece to this is, well, there are a lot of okay, there's a lot of complexities. So, yes, there are a number of providers in the market, technology companies that are stepping in and offering this capability. These could be either companies like there's a company in the US called Diginex which is basically it's a layer on top of the ticketing system. There are other companies like Schmidt's out of Switzerland which is more of a ticketing system provider that has a dynamic pricing layer. Douglas Quinby: And there's some other company, there's some other booking system providers like Mantrada and others that are layering in dynamic pricing within their booking system capability. But there's still some big issues that need to be addressed within the space. I mean, one is there's still just a gap in just the fundamentals of the technology. You need to have a robust solid ticketing system and just control of your basic inventory and pricing. And once you have that, then we can start to think about dynamic pricing. That's one. Then the next piece is what are the signals and what are the triggers to drive that? And it's going to vary a lot from attraction to attraction. But it could be things like weather, it can be things like demand. Douglas Quinby: There could be things like maybe there's the World Cup in Qatar and there's going to be increased demand for a great attraction there than you would want during that time when the destination is going to be overflowing. You can increase your prices. So there's a lot of different kind of factors and inputs there and there's a lot of debate about it too. I think at a consumer level, there's that old thing of while you're sitting on the airplane and the guy next to you spent half the price on the plane ticket and does that frustrate you? But I think increasingly consumers have come to understand this. It's become pretty commonplace and I think people will understand it. Douglas Quinby: And I also think as well, it's an opportunity for attractions, not just to make a little more money, but it's also, as I said, I think at the outset, to provide a better guest experience. I think especially for tier one attractions and top destinations, that's got to be the top priority. How can you disperse your guests in a more effective way? Because there's no question we had a little pandemic induced hiatus from over tourism, but it's already back in some places fast and furious and attractions are going to be very quickly overrun, especially when Asia really opens up and comes back. So how can you use smart pricing strategies to create a better guest experience, to have a better impact on your attraction and on the local community? I think it's not just about making money. Douglas Quinby: So yeah, this is going to be a major theme within the sector over the next couple of years and I would expect the industry to take it up pretty rapidly. Kelly Molson: Yeah, I really like the definition of putting your prices up actually gives the customer a better experience because it comes down to the operational factors again, isn't it? If you know you're going to be extremely busy for this period, you put your prices up a touch, but that touch allows you to hire X amount more visitor experience people that can greet your guests and give them that experience. So it's all about it still is all about the customer, which is really important. Douglas Quinby: And it surely can also potentially enable an attraction to lower prices during certain times. Right. If you can yield up during certain times, you can make the attraction more accessible. Again, it's not just about making more money. I mean, that certainly should be a benefit, right, but it's also about can be about making your venue more accessible, about making the guest experience better. Kelly Molson: Yeah. And I think that's the message that has to be driven to your audience as well, isn't it? Because otherwise it just feels a little bit unjust, but they're not being given the information to understand that actually this is a better decision for them. There's so much that we could talk about. We are out of time. We're basically out of time. We always end up podcast by asking our guests to share a book that they love with us. Have you prepared for us today? Douglas Quinby: Yes, I have. And actually, this is a book I recommend quite a bit. And it might be it's not like a typical book because I know you've got lots of great recommendations and there's lots of amazing business books out there. But one of the books that has always stuck with me, it's actually it's a service manual. It's called Delivering Knock Your Socks Off Customer Service. And it's a short paperback. It's I think it's like 109 pages or even less. It was written as a manual for customer service teams. But actually, as I read it struck me as basically it's a guide for being a great human being and how to treat people in an extraordinary way and how to respond to questions when you don't know the answer, how to make people feel like you care about them. Douglas Quinby: And one of the things my wife has always said is, "people never remember what you say, really, but they remember how you made them feel". To me, that book is basically it's a guidepost to leaving people feel like they matter to you and that you're going to serve them well. And that also ties into your brand. Like everyone is their own personal brand and every action that you have with every person is a reflection of that brand. That book impacted me in that way and I've always kind of thought about it as a way to be a guidepost for how I interact with everybody. Not just with my customers or clients or our event partners, or our employees, with my friends, with my family, with everybody. Kelly Molson: Doug, that is a book that is right up my street and that's going to go top of my pile. And I'm going to buy it. I'm going to buy it from my team as well. Douglas Quinby: Highly recommended. Kelly Molson: As ever, listeners if you want to win a copy of Doug's book, then if you head over to our Twitter account and you retweet this episode announcement with the words, "I want Doug's book", then we will enter you into a draw to potentially win it.  You'll have to come back on because there are so many other topics that we could have covered. So come back in 2024 and we'll see how some of these predictions and things that we've talked about have worked out this year. But thank you. It's been lovely to chat. Douglas Quinby: Well, just for all of those attractions who are listening, we have our Arival Berlin Conference right before ITV March 5, 6 and 7 in Berlin at the amazing Estrella Hotel, where all of the things that Kelly has been bugging me about over the past, what has it been, 45 minutes or an hour or so. We have a couple of days just devoted to all of these topics in the world of experiences in the future. And we've got speakers from Google and Get Your Guide and actually the Moco Museum, which is all in on dynamic pricing, by the way. And they're going to be leading an in depth workshop on what they're doing and among so much else, on distribution and growth. And you're going to meet a lot of incredible experience operators and attractions and distributors and technology providers. Douglas Quinby: It's really for us, it's our vision to create the hub of the experiences sector for travel and to help this industry grow and improve. And Kelly is going to be there. Kelly Molson: I was going to say Doug, the highlight of it is that I'll be there speaking as well.Douglas Quinby: That's right. That's right. Which we're really looking forward to. So please do consider joining us. We promise you have an amazing time with an amazing community and learn tons. Kelly Molson: It's a great line up of speakers and it really does look like an absolutely incredible conference. We'll put all the details in the show notes so none of you will miss out and you'll be able to book online. And even if you don't make the conference, go and check out the Arival website because some of the reporting on there is really phenomenal and so valuable to the sector. And I've learned a lot in the last couple of weeks just reading through some of the reports that Doug has been able to send me through. So that is well worth a visit, everyone. Doug, thank you. It's been fabulous. Douglas Quinby: Thank you, Kelly. Kelly Molson: Thanks for listening to Skip the Queue. If you've enjoyed this podcast, please leave us a five star review. It really helps others find us. And remember to follow us on Twitter for your chance to win the books that have been mentioned. Skip The Queue is brought to you by Rubber Cheese, a digital agency that builds remarkable systems and websites for attractions that helps them increase their visitor numbers. You can find show notes and transcriptions from this episode and more over on our website, rubbercheese.com/podcast..

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EPISODE NOTESSkip the Queue is brought to you by Rubber Cheese, a digital agency that builds remarkable systems and websites for attractions that helps them increase their visitor numbers. Your host is  Kelly Molson, Founder of Rubber Cheese. Download the Rubber Cheese 2022 Visitor Attraction Website Report - the first digital benchmark statistics for the attractions sector. If you like what you hear, you can subscribe on iTunes, Spotify, and all the usual channels by searching Skip the Queue or visit our website rubbercheese.com/podcast.  If you've enjoyed this podcast, please leave us a five star review, it really helps others find us. And remember to follow us on Twitter for your chance to win the books that have been mentioned in this podcast Competition ends January 31st 2023. The winner will be contacted via Twitter.   Show references: https://www.convious.com/https://twitter.com/MrTicketeerhttps://www.linkedin.com/in/andypovey/ https://blooloop.com/technology/news/convious-consumer-pricinghttps://blooloop.com/technology/news/convious-digital-trends-webinar/ Andy Povey joined Convious in November 2021 as managing director for UK and Ireland. Andy has worked in the attractions industry since the early nineties when he began as a ride operator at Chessington World of Adventures. He stayed with the Tussaud's company and later Merlin Entertainments for another 18 years, working in a variety of operational jobs at Rock Circus, Madame Tussauds, and central support, where he was responsible for the group's ticketing systems. After Merlin, he worked for Gateway Ticketing Systems for ten years, opening and then overseeing their UK operation, before transferring his experience to the Convious team. Outside work, Andy enjoys visiting attractions of all shapes and sizes with his family. Transcriptions: Kelly Molson: Welcome to Skip the Queue, a podcast for people working in, or working with visitor attractions. I'm your host, Kelly Molson. Each episode, I speak with industry experts from the attractions world. In today's episode, I speak with Andy Povey, Managing Director, UK and Ireland for Convious. Andy shares with us the five key digital trends attractions shouldn't miss out on and research into dynamic pricing for theme parks and tourist attractions. If you like what you hear, you can subscribe on iTunes, Spotify, and all the usual channels by searching Skip the Queue.Kelly Molson: Andy Povey, it's so lovely to have you on Skip The Queue podcast today. Thanks for coming on.Andy Povey: Thank you. It's my absolute pleasure.Kelly Molson: And I know you've been a bit poorly. So let's just state now, poor old Andy has had COVID, and he's got a little bit of a cold today. So be kind to him.Andy Povey: It's man flu.Kelly Molson: It's always man flu, Andy. Right. As ever, we're going to start with icebreakers and I've got a really good one for you. So how would you describe your job to a three year old?Andy Povey: Oh, to a three year old? Well, I've got eight year old twin girls. So as far as they're concerned, daddy gets to go to zoos and theme parks without them, which is not brilliant. But no, I make computers work, I suppose.Kelly Molson: Make computers work for cool attractions like zoos and theme parks. I think that's perfect.Andy Povey: Absolutely.Kelly Molson: Good job, Andy. We'll talk more about that later. Okay. What one thing would you make a law that isn't one already?Andy Povey: That's a really difficult one.Kelly Molson: They're always difficult, Andy. It's always.Andy Povey: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You're being mean to me. Yeah. Oh, I'm in our office in Amsterdam at the moment, so I'm traveling a bit. And I do have a theory that you should never, ever fly from an airport where people feel it's appropriate to turn up in flip flops.Kelly Molson: Well, even if you're traveling back from holiday and it's a bit warm.Andy Povey: So the law would be, if I'm at the airport, and I'm waiting in the back to get to Carousel, you need to get out of my way.Kelly Molson: I think that's fair. Everyone goes a bit savage at the airport. Don't you think? You know when you go into London, and there's a certain way that you act on the tubes to get to places. You've got to walk really, you've got to be very determined, haven't you?Andy Povey: Absolutely.Kelly Molson: That's how I feel when I go into London. I've got my London walk on. And I feel it's a bit like that at the airports as well. Everyone's all in it for themselves. They don't care about anyone else around them. It's all just-Andy Povey: No, no. Get out of my way.Kelly Molson: Yeah. It's a good law, Andy. Right. Everyone has to get out of Andy's way at the airport. That's the law. Nice. Okay. And this one, I've asked a few people this one. Because I really like this one. What would you buy as you exit through the gift shop?Andy Povey: I'm not really into things. I'm much more of an experience kind of person. So if there was another experience, or something to enhance the experience, then it would be something like that.Kelly Molson: Okay. Good answer.Andy Povey: Yeah, something to enhance the experience.Kelly Molson: Good answer. I like that, Andy. And we'll talk about that a little bit more later as well. What would your twin girls pick? What would be their things from the theme park?Andy Povey: Oh, cuddly toys. You must be the same. Shelves and shelves and shelves of these things in the house.Kelly Molson: My daughter is doing incredibly well from all of the visits though that I have been on recently. Yeah. Let me tell you the gift shops, I've been [inaudible 00:03:28].Andy Povey: Squish 'em alls.Kelly Molson: To the gift shops. Yeah.Andy Povey: What do they call them?Kelly Molson: Squishy animals, all sorts of stuff. She's now got from various attractions that she's never been to that I'll have to take her to, to say thank you.Andy Povey: No, when mine were the same age as your daughter, I went to Orlando a few times for IAAPA. And I would buy them Mickey Mouse and Mini Mouse cuddly toys, and bring them home. But because they'd never seen anything to do with Disney, these were just referred to as Boy Mouse and Girl Mouse.Kelly Molson: Oh, bless them.Andy Povey: They didn't know what Mickey Mouse was.Kelly Molson: Oh. And I'm sure they do very well now.Andy Povey: Absolutely. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.Kelly Molson: All right, Andy, what is your unpopular opinion? What have you prepared for us?Andy Povey: I actually did a poll of my colleagues in the office, because I was looking at something to do with Eurovision, and actually trying to work out whether my opinion was unpopular or not. And unfortunately it wasn't. So Eurovision massively overrated is my opinion of this.Kelly Molson: Gosh. So-Andy Povey: I knew we were going to fall out over this.Kelly Molson: Well, it's not just me. There's a lot of listeners that you are going to make very unhappy about that statement, Andy. Not to mention Rachel MacKay, who, if she hears this, I don't know how she's going to feel the next time she sees you. So that is for you to feel awkward about.Andy Povey: You asked for an unpopular opinion.Kelly Molson: Okay, let's put it out there. How does everyone feel about Eurovision? I feel like this is definitely going to be an unpopular one, Andy. Thank you. Right. Okay. Andy, so you have got over two decades in the attraction sector, self proclaimed attractions industry nerd. I think that's fair. Tell us a little bit about your background, and how you ended up working in the sector.Andy Povey: A colleague did tell me the other day that it's actually 30 years, and I was trying to hide away from this. Yes, I am old. So many, many years ago, started a temporary seasonal job at Chessington World of Adventures, having left college without a clue about what I wanted to do when I grew up. My first job was driving the train around the park at Chessington, and absolutely fell in love with the attractions industry. And then stayed with Merlin or The Tussauds Group, which then became Merlin Entertainment for about 18 years, and doing all sorts of different jobs. So that's how I fell into it. And I've never looked back.Kelly Molson: It's a really common theme actually, from guests that come on who've gone to work in a theme park or an attraction as what they probably thought would be a temp job for a while. And then absolutely loved every minute of it, and then have just risen through the ranks. Whether they've stayed in one group or they've moved around. But they've just continued to learn, and learn, and learn, and progress. And that comes across so frequently with our guests. It sucks you in.Andy Povey: It absolutely does. And it's a great industry. And I love the fact that you can build a career within our industry from starting right at the bottom, and just work your way up. I think it's a testament to the industry.Kelly Molson: What kind of roles did you work in then as you moved your way up?Andy Povey: So I did four years at Chessington as a ride operator. Then went to Rock Circus, which was a subsidiary of Madame Tussauds in the Trocadero and Piccadilly Circus in Central London. It was there for four years, and we were told that someone from head office was going to come and install the till system and tell me how to make it work. At which point I went, "Oh, maybe not." So I went and became that person.Kelly Molson: Oh, you were a tills man?Andy Povey: Yeah, I was. It was a tills man. So I started in ticketing before the internet.Kelly Molson: Yeah.Andy Povey: Before anybody really knew what the internet was, and then moved to Madame Tussauds for a short period of time, and then to what was Tussauds Group head office in Tottenham Court Road looking after all of the till systems for the organisation. And then did that for about 10 years, and then left, went and joined the supplier that we were using, Tussauds, so gateway ticketing. I was with them for 10 years. Basically convinced them to set up a UK office, and I ran the UK office for 10 years. And then after COVID, decided it was time to go and do something else. So came across Convious, the company I work for now, and whose office I'm sitting in today. And that's it, really. That's a very brief summary of Andy's career.Kelly Molson: Excellent career. I'd like to hear a little bit about Convious. So I am aware of you, and I think that most people at the moment would be aware of Convious. They're everywhere. Convious are everywhere.Andy Povey: Yeah. We're bright pink, and we shout a lot.Kelly Molson: And they're pink.Andy Povey: Don't know what they do.Kelly Molson: You have fantastic stands, events that we all attend. But I think there's something really different about Convious. Can you just tell us a little bit about it?Andy Povey: So it's not just what Convious are doing. There's something going off in the whole world of technology that the sales force are referring to as the fourth industrial revolution. And so competing with third industrial revolution from sort of 1949 to 2010, the fourth industrial revolution's all about data. And five years ago everyone was talking about big data. That was the buzzword that was everywhere. So we were just storing loads and loads of information. The fourth industrial revolution we're seeing now is actually doing things with that data. Because there's no point in just paying for a load of storage somewhere, if you're not going to do anything with it.So what we're doing at Convious with that data. It's really sitting on top of our partner's websites rather than being a page that you go off to, and gathering as much data as we possibly can. So we pull in long range weather forecasts, we're pulling in all sorts of information about how people are interacting with the website. And ultimately just using it all to drive sales and increase sales for our partners.Kelly Molson: I know that the weather thing is a really small thing of the system. It's a tiny thing, but it's the thing that sticks in my head the most. Because I just think it's blooming genius. I know. It's such a small thing, but it's such a clever thing to have.Andy Povey: It really does affect attendance at so many attractions. And I love Dom Jones when he was talking to you. I love his take on the weather, of actually, if you're going to blame the weather, you should also give the weather credit when you have a great attendance.Kelly Molson: I agree. Yeah, I love that quote from Dom. So it is really interesting in terms of what Convious do. Because I think that one of the things that attractions could be better at is using the data that they already have in more sophisticated ways. And the Convious platform allows you to do that really easily. Because let's face it, marketing teams are overstretched in attractions. And they can be quite small at times as well. We had Danielle and Ross on from Drayton Manor a few weeks ago. And the two of them pretty much head up their department. And I know they're a head of marketing as well. But that's a small team for what is a significant attraction.Andy Povey: Yes. Yeah, yeah.Kelly Molson: So anything that we can help to put in place for those teams is ultimately going to make it easier for them, and make it better. And they'll be able to understand better what their customers are actually doing.Andy Povey: And ultimately it's about making it easier for the customer. There's a whole focus on personalization at the moment, again, across the industry. So rather than it being one too many, it's one personalisation. And looking at, if we know something about the customer, so take me for example. I buy family tickets, and I love industrial heritage. So Google knows that about me, and Google will tell every website that I go to, that's who I am. So if we've got a family offering as an attraction, then let's promote the family offering. If you've got an industrial heritage offering, let's promote the industrial heritage offering to the people who've identified that they are. Ultimately it's about giving people what they want.Kelly Molson: And that's the really smart bit, isn't it? That the system can identify the person that's coming, and show them the things that are more relevant to them from that attraction. Then the standard things that they might like, they might buy. But actually this is the one that they really want, because that's connecting with them at a completely deeper level. That's some of the stuff that I want to talk about today. So one of the things that's good about Convious, and I'd like to hope that Rubber Cheese are aligned in this way as well, is that when we think about talking to attractions, we're giving them things that are useful. I think, that ultimately from any marketing perspective is how useful can you be? This content that I'm putting out, what value does it bring somebody? And how can they engage with it? And is it helpful for them?And that's what I feel Convious does really well. And I see a lot of your articles on Blooloop for example. And a month or so ago there was an article about the five key digital trends for attractions as we roll into 2023. And I think that this is a really good time to talk about these things. Because people are doing a lot of planning at this time of year. They're in Christmas, which this year feels very busy, because it's the first Christmas people can-Andy Povey: It certainly does.Kelly Molson: It's the first one though, if you think about it, that people can actually go out and feel comfortable that the things they're going to book, they can actually do. Last year we still had that Omicron. Do we do big groups? Do we just stay inside a little bit longer? But this year feels busy. And I think that attractions will get through Christmas, have a brilliant Christmas. And then January will be that time when they go "Right, what are we doing? This is what we need to focus on now." So this is very pertinent. It comes at a great time. One of the key trends that you just mentioned was personalization. So you talked about making things relevant to your audience. Really, really relevant. Are we talking about exclusive here as well? Because we talk about that quite a lot. Exclusive events and things that they can only get at certain places.Andy Povey: Yeah, I think so. And I think that's one of the things that, not just around digital, I think it's one of the things that the attractions world will do to really weather the economic storm that we're going through at the moment. Generally what we've seen over the past 12 months is that if you've got a short event, or a short-term event, it tends to sell out. So looking at what you as an attraction can do that creates that exclusive event. So if you are a park, can you get Peppa Pig on site for two or three days? Can you get Paw Patrol there for a couple of days? So giving people their incentive to come, and come again, and come again. So not just being, this is the six weeks of the summer at my theme park. This is the Peppa Pig, fortnight, although two days. And this is the Paw Patrol for two days. So improving that repeat visitation.Kelly Molson: And what you talked about data, I guess that comes back to really understanding your audience.Andy Povey: Absolutely.Kelly Molson: So you need to be collecting the data to understand what those people want in the first phase to then be able to tailor your offering to what they like.Andy Povey: 100%. 100%. There's no value in creating a Peppa Pig experience if none of your visitors have got kids. A great way to waste a load of money.Kelly Molson: I don't need to see Peppa.Andy Povey: No. No, no, no.Kelly Molson: You can keep Peppa. So you talked earlier about what you like, and that Google knows that about you. How do attractions tap into that? I guess through advertising, right?Andy Povey: Well it's not just advertising. It's actually looking at... And you did the survey a few weeks ago about the attractions, and understanding Google Analytics, that kind of stuff. It's free. You do not need to pay to get Google Analytics data. It's there for you. And there are so many venues, and so many prospective clients that I'm talking to now, that don't have access to it. It's almost criminal. There are still vendors out there that don't share this information. So I suppose to come back and answer your question is, go and look at the data that you've got. Google Analytics will give you a view of everybody that's coming to your website.Kelly Molson: Find out who they are, what they like, and then give them what they want.Andy Povey: Well, yeah. But tailor something for them. So if you've got a large foodie audience, then look at your catering.Kelly Molson: Yeah, that's really good advice.Andy Povey: Can you put on a Heston Blumenthal event, or a Jamie Oliver event?Kelly Molson: Yeah, that's really great advice actually, taking it to that deeper level. The second key digital trend was about online and offline, which we're talking a lot about online and offline as well. So this isn't just about digital, but I guess one of the things that was mentioned was about digital experiences. And I guess you can talk about that from a pre-visit perspective. How do you engage people digitally before they turn up at your event? But also, once they're at your venue too. So digital experiences that deepen or extend the experience that you were already giving them. Can you think of any really good examples of that, that we could talk about from an attractions perspective?Andy Povey: That's really difficult. The reason that we go to attractions as human beings, is because we like doing physical things. We want to be with our friends. We want to be with our family. Particularly after COVID, it's has been difficult to go and see granny, and whatever. So it's safer to go and visit a park, or to visit a garden than it is to possibly all sit around in the lounge, having a cup of tea. I can give you an unusual example, I suppose. The Forestry Commission did something a few years ago with The Gruffalo, and it's an augmented reality thing.Kelly Molson: Yes.Andy Povey: So as a parent, you could sit your child on a tree trunk and hold up your phone, and the augmented reality would superimpose an image of the Gruffalo sitting next to your child. They pulled it within six months, because the parent is having this experience of looking at their child through a phone. Whereas the child's sitting there going, "Well, mummy and daddy's just on their phone again."Kelly Molson: "Where's the Gruffalo?"Andy Povey: "Mummy and daddy's just on their phone again. What are we doing?"Kelly Molson: Yeah.Andy Povey: So in that situation it's about getting back to reality, rather than being digital. So it's a really fine line. At what point does an app, or a park map, or something like that, at what point does it enhance your visit, versus intruding on your visit?Kelly Molson: Yeah, that's a really good question. It's really funny, because when you mentioned that, I was like, that's a perfect example of this, how digital interacts with nature. But you're right, aren't you? Because the child doesn't interact with it. They just see you pointing a phone at them again, or you interacting with your phone and not with them. I hadn't considered that, and what message that actually sends out to them while they're outside in nature as well.Andy Povey: Yeah. And so I'm not a [inaudible 00:18:44] who's going, no, no, digital should be nowhere near your experience. It should be there, and it should be enhancing. But actually really understand that it is enhancing. So if you talk to the guys from BeWILDerwood, I know there was a podcast with Hannah. They delight on the fact that you can't get a mobile phone signal in Norfolk. Because you should put your phone away. You're here to have a day out with the kids.Kelly Molson: Yeah, that's a really good point. I actually quite like it when I can't get any mobile signal, because it means that I'm present.Andy Povey: Yes, absolutely.Kelly Molson: It means I'm not worrying about having to check something. I'm actually not even that concerned about, oh I needed to get this picture for the gram. I just forget about it if I've got no signal. It's just not going to happen. One thing that we do have to think about though, from an online perspective, is about bookings. So what we have seen, and again we've seen this in our attractions website survey that we've just published, is that bookings are increasing on mobile year, on year, on year, on year. So we do have to think about that pre-visit, and how easy we make it for people to book tickets. So actually, someone asked me this question on LinkedIn yesterday. What's one of my top infuriations with attractions websites?And I said for me, I'm often on my mobile phone when I'm doing things, because I'm out and about and I might be booking my tickets on a mobile phone. And I really hate when you're forced to create an account before you can actually buy anything. And I'm like, "God, I've got literally five minutes before I get off the train, and onto the tube. And I've got no signal. And I've got to get this ticket. I don't want to be creating an account right now."Andy Povey: No, no, no.Kelly Molson: Just give me the ticket. I might get an account afterwards, but just give me the ticket.Andy Povey: That was one of the things from your report, wasn't it? The account creation is a massive turnoff to conversion. And for me, I never remember any of those passwords. So every time I go back to their store, I'm having to reset my password, because it's just an absolute pain in the butt.Kelly Molson: I'm with you. So there you go.Andy Povey: Don't do it.Kelly Molson: Top tip from this podcast. Don't make people do that.Andy Povey: Yeah. Don't do accounts.Kelly Molson: Two very angry consumers here.Andy Povey: Absolutely. 100%.Kelly Molson: All right. So number three on our digital trends list is increasing loyalty. Now this is a big one, isn't it? Right? So again, it's interesting. So from a personal perspective, again, I was asked about memberships. We have a National Trust membership, it renews in January. I'll absolutely be renewing it. It's great value for money. It gives us so many places locally that we can go to. It's not a free day out, but it's a great day out, and we can take quite long.Andy Povey: It feels like it.Kelly Molson: It feels like a free day.Andy Povey: Yeah.Kelly Molson: Yeah. But do attractions need to think a bit more about that now? So should attractions be rewarding loyalty? So member perks for example? Or just small things that members get for being a member, that you couldn't get unless you were a member?Andy Povey: Absolutely. It's almost those money-can't-buy experiences. So it doesn't necessarily cost the attraction anything to do these things. And you can go have a member exclusive event to walk a coaster track, or to a behind the scenes tour of something. But yeah, all right. It might cost you a couple of hours for a member of staff to put it on. Again, as we came out of COVID, the first people that came to your rotation, were your most loyal customers. They've come to see you as the first thing they can do. So as an attraction, you have the opportunity to harness that loyalty, and turn these people into advocates. And that's going to be your best marketing resource, where they're recommending to people to come along to you. So if you can deepen that relationship by rewarding, by sharing, then absolutely you should do it.Kelly Molson: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's understanding what they want as well. So when we talk about delivering what they want, should attractions be surveying their members, and finding out what more they can give them? And again, it comes back to the data thing again, doesn't it? How well do you know your audience? From a member's perspective, are you actually giving them what they want?Andy Povey: No, absolutely. And surveying's great, but there's so many other ways you can capture information about members and what they're doing that isn't actually going and asking them a question. It was interesting when we did the dynamic pricing consumer research. The responses that you get from people when they're answering a survey aren't necessarily what they're doing in real life.Kelly Molson: Interesting. Give us an example.Andy Povey: There was, 30% of people believe the airlines aren't charging dynamic prices. And I'm looking at this going, well, this can't be right. This is obvious. But actually, if you dig into it a little bit more, and we did with the guys from Baker Richards. And it's actually, the consumer's not looking at the price changing. The consumer's interested in the price they're paying for the date and time that they want to get on the plane. It doesn't matter that the price changes. It's how much am I paying today? What's my price now? That's a very long winded way of answering your question about the value of surveys.Kelly Molson: Yeah. No, it's really important, isn't it? So how else do you get to know your members? If surveys are giving us not quite the full picture, what other ways can we find out about-Andy Povey: So if you are looking at app, then obviously you are tracking, or you have the ability to track where people are going, how they're engaging, that kind of stuff. I was at IAAPA a couple of weeks ago in Orlando. And there's guys there with a new product that's actually harvesting location data from 200 different apps, and bringing all that, and presenting it back to you. Which I'm not a hundred percent sure that it is GDPR compliant, or [inaudible 00:24:44].Kelly Molson: Is that okay though? I'm not sure about that.Andy Povey: Yeah. But there it's looking at where people are going, how long they're staying there, and that kind of stuff. So that's one example. Going back to what we do at Convious, we don't capture addresses, postal addresses. Because we're not interested in old school CRM. We're not going to produce a mailing, a physical piece of paper and post it out to somebody. So why are you asking them to fill in all those fields with their address on?Kelly Molson: That's interesting. So even from a geographic perspective, it's not always relevant to understand where your customers are traveling from.Andy Povey: You can get all of that from the IP address that they're coming from.Kelly Molson: Sure.Andy Povey: So obviously it's really important to understand whereabouts in the country, and how far away your customers are from you, and that kind of stuff. But there are other ways to gathering that information, rather than traditional filling in. Back to your comment about filling in my address on the phone. Yeah, I've got fat fingers. I'm not going to type my address in on the phone.Kelly Molson: And I'm busy.Andy Povey: Yeah, yeah.Kelly Molson: It's not going to happen.Andy Povey: Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.Kelly Molson: All right. Yeah. No, I like that.Andy Povey: Make it as simple as you possibly can for people.Kelly Molson: Yeah, absolutely. And the data's already there, so just gather it from the right place without giving people something else that they need to do. Good. Okay. All right. Well, our next one is about engagement, digital engagement. So digital engagement, from a marketing perspective, I always think about user generated content at this point. Because you're asking your visitors, from an offline perspective, you're asking them to engage with something that's at your physical attraction, but then you then encouraging them to share that digitally. So you're getting that double exposure and, you're also generating content from your users, which is invaluable for your marketing team. So that's the thing that I always focus on from digital engagement. What other things can we ask attractions to focus on?Andy Povey: A story someone told me many, many years ago was that their marketing guy actually ran a training session at this attraction, I can't remember which one, for staff on how to take the best photos.Kelly Molson: Oh that's great. Yeah.Andy Povey: You see a family, and mum or dad's taking a picture of the other parent and the kids, obviously the member of staff is going to offer to take the photograph for them. That's just human nature. That's what we do. But if you've already identified the most memorable background to put these people in, then the member staff can just move them slightly. And it improves and increases the rate of those photos being uploaded and shared.Kelly Molson: That's such a small thing, isn't it?Andy Povey: Isn't it?Kelly Molson: But again, that's genius. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Get a better picture for people. They're more encouraged to share it. I love it. That's so clever. I hadn't even considered that. But again, that comes back to the people. People make places.Andy Povey: Absolutely.Kelly Molson: So you empower the people to make those things happen better for those guests. I love that. Yeah, great one. Okay. And then I guess reviews is something that's really important about engagement. And how do we encourage people to leave reviews about the venues?Andy Povey: It can be as simple as your post visit survey. Standard. Everyone's doing them.Kelly Molson: Ah, are they though? Are they though?Andy Povey: Well, yeah okay. Everyone should be doing them.Kelly Molson: Okay. Should be.Andy Povey: Everyone should be doing them. And then you can have some intelligence sitting behind it, that if you get a lot of high scores, whatever, then direct the consumer over to the review site at the end of the review. If you're getting some negative scores, then direct them to your customer service team and do something about it. As human beings, we're happy to share this kind of information, as long as we're getting something back from it. It's a transactional relationship at that point. So we talk a lot about harvesting data. But morally, you can't do that if you're not giving the consumer something back, and giving them a benefit for doing it. Back to your comment about accounts. What's the point of me creating an account? What's my benefit of doing this? There isn't one. I'm just going to get annoyed about it.Kelly Molson: This is the thing, actually. So most of the time when I've had to create an account to get my ticket, there hasn't been any further interaction other than someone's whacked me on their mailing list. And I'm probably going to unsubscribe from that mailing list, because I'm annoyed that I've had to make the account in the first place. So what is that benefit? Yeah. Think about if you are going to force people to do something, at least make it worthwhile for them than a newsletter. Just sticking them on the newsletter list is not going to cut it.Andy Povey: Absolutely not. Absolutely not. And then for a long time I was on the Encore Hotels mailing list. I get an email from them a couple of times a week. And it started, Dear Povey, you-Kelly Molson: Dear Povey.Andy Povey: Dear Povey, you have got that so wrong. You cannot. Your CRM is so bad.Kelly Molson: Can I tell you though? So sometimes when I have to sign up for stuff and I have to put my company name, I get emails to Dear Rubber. That's not okay. I'm quite used to it, but it's still not okay.Andy Povey: No, no, no, no. So yeah. We're talking a lot about examples of how not to do it, than how to do it better.Kelly Molson: Well I think this is important, right?Andy Povey: It is.Kelly Molson: There may be attractions listening to this, going, "Oops, we might have done that. We might need to change that." So it's all relevant.Andy Povey: Oh no, on a positive. I got an email from Father Christmas yesterday. It's from an attraction we took the kids to last year to go and see Santa. And it's the first mail I've had from that venue since visiting, so 12 months. So I'm not getting spammed. And you see Father Christmas arrive in your inbox.Kelly Molson: Oh, that's nice, isn't it?Andy Povey: It's a very special moment. So that was very well done. Very well done.Kelly Molson: Yeah, that's really smart, isn't it? If you're just going to send one email a year, make sure it's from Santa.Andy Povey: Absolutely. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.Kelly Molson: Right. Let's talk about pricing, because that's our number five key digital trends for attractions. Now pricing's really interesting. We've talked quite a lot about pricing recently. So we had Dominic on from Mary Rose, talking about pricing. We also had Simon Addison from Roman Baths, talking about pricing.Andy Povey: Yes.Kelly Molson: Let's talk about dynamic pricing, because it's something that we touched on just earlier when we were talking about the airlines and the surveys. So airlines use something called real time pricing. When a plane's almost full, the airline company's going to bump their prices up. Because they know they're going to sell out, and they know that somebody really wants that ticket, because they have to get somewhere on a certain day at a certain time. So it's a bit of a no-brainer for them. Is that something that attractions should be doing?Andy Povey: I think so. And as an industry, we've talked about dynamic pricing for the past 20 years. And when I was Madame Tussaud's, we implemented what then was peak and off-peak pricing. And so we changed the price of the ticket three times during the day. And actually, because we were very explicit about what the price was, we were stuck at this 1995 price point, and had been reluctant to change for a while. We actually increased our ticket yield by about 30%, whilst also increasing our value for money score, which seemed counterintuitive. And actually what was happening there was that the consumer was choosing how much they were going to pay.So rather than being told what the price was, the consumer chooses. So naturally we are more comfortable about a situation, where we feel that we've had some choice. Dynamic pricing does that. Real time pricing, which is where we sit at Convious just makes that run much more efficiently, much more quickly. So a lot of dynamic pricing consultancies out there at the moment will talk about changing prices every day, which if you think, generally people are buying tickets to an attraction three to five days before they visit. They're only going to see three to five different price points. Whereas the way the modern world is going, or the way we are is, we're changing prices, or we can change the price as a result of every single transaction.Kelly Molson: Does that make it more difficult from an operational perspective, if you're constantly changing your prices though? Is it harder to do your forecasting, for example, if that's your price strategy?Andy Povey: If you are forecasting on individual ticket price level, yeah, absolutely. So don't do that.Kelly Molson: Good advice.Andy Povey: Yeah. So every attraction that I've ever worked in and around has a target yield, or a target ticket price to achieve. And we've been doing variable pricing through all the coupons that get put out on all the leaflet racks that you see on every motorway service station. So you can't control how many of those coupons are coming back, and how much discount you're going to get. So having much more control makes it easier for you to manage that, and get the computer to do it. Obviously if you're sitting there changing the prices all the time, then yes, it's going to be a nightmare.Kelly Molson: Nobody wants that job.Andy Povey: No. And the other thing on dynamic pricing is, we still get hooked up on the idea that dynamic means increased, and it doesn't. If you're doing it properly, then it doesn't mean the price is going up necessarily. Obviously you get a better yield. But the guys at Pleasurewood Hills down in Lowestoft, they have a very transient market. So there are loads and loads of holiday parks in their area. So Mondays and Fridays are change over days. So their total addressable market on a Monday and a Friday drops by 50%, because people are packing up and going home. So if you drop the price on a Monday and Friday, or drop the price on a Monday and Friday. Someone who may have come on Wednesday, is now going to come on Monday or Friday, have a much better experience, because venue's not full. And so it smooths their demand. So there's a lot of science behind it.Kelly Molson: Yep. And that all comes back to data, what we started talking about, right?Andy Povey: Absolutely.Kelly Molson: Knowing-Andy Povey: Yeah, yeah, yeah.Kelly Molson: Knowing where people are coming from, what they're doing, how you can change their mindset about things just from the data.Andy Povey: Yeah. And actually watching what they're doing. So we have an artificial intelligence engine that sits behind what we're doing. And it can monitor in real time what's happening about your conversion rate. So if you put the price up by a pound and then your conversion rate drops by 5%, you've probably gone up too high. So drop it down a little bit. So just manage it better, I suppose, in summary.Kelly Molson: I think that's good advice for life in general, isn't it Andy?Andy Povey: Oh yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.Kelly Molson: Just manage it better.Andy Povey: Just manage it better.Kelly Molson: This has been a great chat, Andy. Thank you. I think there's loads to take away from. So what we're going to do in the show notes. So there will be links to all the blog articles that we've mentioned today about the digital trends. And I believe there is a webinar that you ran about dynamic pricing as well. And I believe that we might have a link to that too that we could share, which would be great. But Andy, we always end our podcast by asking our guests to share a book with us, something that they love or they've really enjoyed that they think our listeners would also like.Andy Povey: So I've pondered this for a while, and I know that some of your previous people you've spoken to have got away with two.Kelly Molson: Yeah.Andy Povey: So I've got a request for two books.Kelly Molson: Oh, God. Okay.Andy Povey: One's a business book. Really simple, about a half hour read. It's called Who Moved My Cheese?Kelly Molson: Good book.Andy Povey: It's one of my favorites when I first read it 20, 25 years ago, something like that, it really gave me a different way of looking at change. So I really recommend that. And the other one is actually a book I love reading to my kids, called Oi Dog!Kelly Molson: Oi Dog! Great.Andy Povey: Oi Dog! Yeah. So there's a child in all of us. And that for me really just tickles all of my childish bones. Yeah.Kelly Molson: Oh brilliant.Andy Povey: So it works pretty well.Kelly Molson: Well, both of those books are right up my street. So Who Moved My Cheese? Unsurprisingly within a company called Rubber Cheese, you won't be surprised to know that somebody bought that for me when I set up the business. And that was nearly 20 years ago. So that was one of the first business books that I think that I ever read. And it did make a big difference about how you deal with change, and how you compartmentalise it into an easier way of dealing with. But Oi Dog! sounds right up my street. I'm going to put that on my list too? Right listeners-Andy Povey: Absolutely.Kelly Molson: So as ever, if you want to win a copy of Andy's two books, then if you go over to our Twitter account, you can just search for Skip the Queue, and you retweet this podcast announcement with the words, "I want Andy's books." Then we'll enter you into a draw to potentially win them. Andy, thank you. It's been lovely to chat today. I've really, really enjoyed it. I'm sure I will see you out in events soon. And if I don't see you-Andy Povey: Absolutely.Kelly Molson: Before, have a wonderful Christmas.Andy Povey: And to you. Thank you very much, Kelly.Kelly Molson: Thanks for listening to Skip the Queue. If you've enjoyed this podcast, please leave us a five star review. It really helps others find us. And remember to follow us on Twitter for your chance to win the books that have been mentioned.Skip The Queue is brought to you by Rubber Cheese, a digital agency that builds remarkable systems and websites for attractions that helps them increase their visitor numbers. You can find show notes and transcriptions from this episode and more over on our website, rubbercheese.com/podcast.. 

There is nothing better than a good Christmas tale.A story that holds the air thick, capturing each breath. Held until the words unfold their secrets, and you breathe out. Christmas, what a beautiful, Once Upon a Time.Todays Takeaways  Beginnings Series of Christmas Mystical Tales Period British...England Daily Advent Collection ( a window opens each day)  Cloud of Witnesses Once Upon a time  It's better to be a mystic and be different.Because if being a mystic means....? the story unfolds...Episode Links:  25 Advent Days with my picture of the Roman Baths  Kristen's #1 Productivity Tool (Pretty Evernote Templates)  Patreon thank you for your support of this podcast  The UnFinished Book at all online retailers.  Podcast Directory   Watch the video version of the podcast on  Intentional Now Podcast View YouTube Channel  Listener Connect  Follow us on Instagram Intentional Now Podcast FacebookLinkTree for the fastest connection to weekly goodies Contact Kristen@kristenwambach.com  Episode Website KristenWambach.comI will bid you a Happy Christmas.These links are for your convenience: Social Media, access resources at my website, and also contact information. If this podcast is a blessing, I invite your partnership as a Patreon subscriber. Your comments, questions, and encouragement help to support this podcast.I look forward to hearing from you. Bye now Kristen 

There is nothing better than a good Christmas tale.A story that holds the air thick, capturing each breath. Held until the words unfold their secrets, and you breathe out. Christmas, what a beautiful, Once Upon a Time.Todays Takeaways  Beginnings Series of Christmas Mystical Tales Period British...England Daily Advent Collection ( a window opens each day)  Cloud of Witnesses Once Upon a time  It's better to be a mystic and be different.Because if being a mystic means....? the story unfolds...Episode Links:  25 Advent Days with my picture of the Roman Baths  Kristen's #1 Productivity Tool (Pretty Evernote Templates)  Patreon thank you for your support of this podcast  The UnFinished Book at all online retailers.  Podcast Directory   Watch the video version of the podcast on  Intentional Now Podcast View YouTube Channel  Listener Connect  Follow us on Instagram Intentional Now Podcast FacebookLinkTree for the fastest connection to weekly goodies Contact Kristen@kristenwambach.com  Episode Website KristenWambach.comI will bid you a Happy Christmas.These links are for your convenience: Social Media, access resources at my website, and also contact information. If this podcast is a blessing, I invite your partnership as a Patreon subscriber. Your comments, questions, and encouragement help to support this podcast.I look forward to hearing from you. Bye now Kristen 

This episode is also available as a blog post: https://hazelstainer.wordpress.com/2022/11/18/the-roman-baths/

Welcome back to Breathingspace-the quietest corner of the internet. Allow yourself to be transported back through time tonight, to the Roman Baths of Caracalla. In tonight's relaxing ASMR bedtime story you'll enjoy a series of traditional spa treatments, swim in candle-lit baths, and explore Rome as it once was. Designed to help you drift off to sleep, allow yourself to be guided through a brief meditation before this evening's story begins and you sink into a state of deep relaxation.

Skip the Queue is brought to you by Rubber Cheese, a digital agency that builds remarkable systems and websites for attractions that helps them increase their visitor numbers. Your host is  Kelly Molson, MD of Rubber Cheese.Download our free ebook The Ultimate Guide to Doubling Your Visitor NumbersIf you like what you hear, you can subscribe on iTunes, Spotify, and all the usual channels by searching Skip the Queue or visit our website rubbercheese.com/podcast.If you've enjoyed this podcast, please leave us a five star review, it really helps others find us. And remember to follow us on Twitter for your chance to win the books that have been mentioned in this podcastCompetition ends January 31st 2023. The winner will be contacted via Twitter. Show references: https://www.romanbaths.co.uk/https://www.linkedin.com/in/simonaddison/ Simon is the Business Manager, Roman Baths and Pump Room, Bath, and heads the finance and business planning functions at the Roman Baths. He is responsible for business analysis, pricing strategy and leads the benchmarking work. Simon started his career in the financial services industry, where he qualified as a chartered management accountant with the Bank of New York. He moved to the National Trust in 2012, where he held roles in the finance team. Latterly he was responsible for the Trust's finances in Somerset, Dorset and Wiltshire. Simon joined the senior leadership team at the Roman Baths in 2017. Simon joined the Board of the Association of Leading Visitor Attractions in May 2022. Transcriptions: Kelly Molson:  Welcome to Skip The Queue, a podcast for people working in or working with visitor attractions. I'm your host Kelly Molson. Each episode, I speak with industry experts from the attractions world. In today's episode, I speak with Simon Addison, Heritage Business Manager at the Roman Baths.We talk all things pricing, and the phenomenal impact that introducing variable pricing has had at the Baths. If you like what you hear, subscribe on iTunes, Spotify, and all the usual channels by searching Skip The Queue. Kelly Molson: Simon, welcome to the podcast. It's lovely to see you today.Simon Addison:  Thanks for having me. I'm excited. I'm nervous about the icebreakers though.Kelly Molson:  Everyone always is. You shouldn't be. What is your favourite season? And why?Simon Addison:  I think autumn. Yeah, the colours on the trees, kick through the leaves with the kids. You can go on those walks, you get the crisp mornings. We're starting to get them at the moment. But you still get sort of a bit of warmth at the end of the day in the afternoon. You can still sit outside on a good day. Yep, definitely autumn.Kelly Molson:  Totally agree. You are my people. Simon. Autumn woolly hats. Simon Addison:  Yeah.Kelly Molson:  Cold but bright. Simon Addison:  Yes. Kelly Molson:  Frisbee, dog walks and Halloween. Simon Addison:  Not so much of a Halloween person but it could be an unpopular opinion territory here. But yeah.Kelly Molson:  All right. Well, save that. Okay. Have you ever been told off for touching something in a museum?Simon Addison:  Yeah, I have. I think the last time was at Lanhydrock. Which is a National Trust place down in Cornwall. We were in the kitchen. They had some plastic fake food on the table and I got told off for touching the plastic fake food.Kelly Molson:  Did you just touch it? Oh, you're trying to juggle with it.Simon Addison:  I was just touching it, Kelly.Kelly Molson:  Okay, don't touch plastic fruit kids. Right. What is something you're really good at? And is a little bit obscure. I'll give you an example of one of mine. I'm really good at; if I hear a song. Or like songs. I can tell you what film they've been in.Simon Addison:  That is a good question. I'm pretty good at motorways around the UK. Where you want to go. I could probably tell you roughly what motorways would be involved in that journey. Don't ask me now though.Kelly Molson:  And I'm really dreadful as well. That's exactly why that really made me laugh. It made you sound like an absolute nerd. Sorry, Simon.Simon Addison:  You asked an accountant on your podcast, Kelly.Kelly Molson:  That's very true. It's very true. I should have been more prepared for the nerd answers. Sorry. All right. So good at motorway so you could have been like London cabbie. You'd have been good at the knowledge.Simon Addison:  Yeah, I reckon that's a different level of knowledge, though. Isn't it? Just those trunk roads around the UK? It's quite a niche building is that detailed. I think we're just talking about my major routes.Kelly Molson:  We would need to find like a really niched pub quiz for our talents wouldn't we? One that covers music from films and routes around the UK using motorways only.Simon Addison:  Yeah, pretty tough.Kelly Molson:  Anyone knows a pub quiz team that needs those skills on them? Hit us up. Right. What is your unpopular opinion?Simon Addison:  Well, I was gonna go with something about Crocs as being an abomination of a choice of footwear. But I feel like that might have come up before. So my unpopular opinion is that golf is the greatest amateur sport to play.Kelly Molson:  Okay, you are a clean golfer, I take it. Simon Addison:  I am a keen golfer. But I think more than that, like the handicap system, so you get a handicap if you're a golfer tells you how good you are. And that means that golfers of different abilities can play competitively against each other on a level playing field, I could go out and play against a professional and have a competitive match. I don't think there are many other sports that you could do that in. And I think for me, that meant that, you know, when I started playing golf in my early 20s, I used to play quite a bit with my granddad, who was quite a lot older than me. And once I was working, I still used to play with him a few times a year. Although I was a better golfer than him on paper, I reckon I only beat him once. Every time I turned up to play with him. I wanted to show how good I was and played like a muppet. But I don't think there are many sports that an eight year old could be a 25 year old app. And if you want to spend silly amounts of money, you can go and play courses where professionals play and you can see how much better they are than you and you can really measure your ability against what a professional sort of standard is. My seven year old son's just getting into golf at the moment. And so this summer, walking around the golf course with him has been sort of the highlight of my summer. And now he's got his handicap. He's seven and he'll probably beat me in a couple of years. And again, I don't think you know, I don't think there are many sports where seven or eight year old could turn up and be a fully grown adult. So for me, that's why golf is the best amateur sport. Kelly Molson:  Yeah, I'd never thought about it like that at all. I think that's brilliant. My husband is a keen golfer and I am a golf widow, although not on the weekends, because he's a wedding photographer anyway, so the weekend so he does fit it. He is quite kind and fits it around times when he should be working when he's not working. But yeah, I hadn't ever thought about that. So it kind of puts you on a really good, I guess you get to learn from people that are really experienced as well because you can actually play against them. Whereas you would never get that opportunity at all, do you?Simon Addison:  Exactly. And you can go out and play with someone who's way better than you and see how they play and it can improve your game. Yeah. And my wife is also a golf widow. I reckon she's playing the long game. I think she's seeing everything. If my son plays as well, then, in years to come, she'll get those Saturdays back. You know, maybe if the other son also takes up golf. Maybe it's just a long game. But right now she's definitely a golf widow.Kelly Molson:  She knows she's plotting because I'm doing exactly the same. I pluck up the hours that he plays golf, and I work out how many hours I can spend doing things that I really want to it's just I haven't found a hobby. That takes me four hours. Yeah, that's what I need.Simon Addison:  Yeah, there is that? Yeah, it's yeah, it was the might be, in my opinion, the greatest sport for an amateur to play. It isn't a short sport, and it isn't a cheap sport.Kelly Molson:  It is not. That's a great opinion, though. Let's see what our listeners think. Thank you. Okay, Simon, as you mentioned earlier, you are an accountant. I don't think we've had an accountant on the podcast before but you're not really a traditional accountant, are you? So tell us a little bit about your role.Simon Addison:  So at the moment, I work at the Roman Baths in Bath, for Bath and North East Somerset Council. So we're a council owned and run visitor attraction. As well as the ruin bars, we operate the Fashion Museum and the Victoria Art Gallery in Bath, and also the record office in the city. My role is Business Manager, I'm responsible for all aspects of sort of finance and business planning, benchmarking and trend analysis, I sort of try not to take offense at my profession, when people say you're not a traditional accounting, but I think it means that I try and look a little bit further than just what the numbers are telling you. I think the accounts are only ever a symptom of what else is going on in the operation. So if all you do is look at the accounts each month, you're probably not going to understand what's driving those numbers. So I think, you know, maybe it's about trying to sort of relate all of that performance data to operational outcomes and objectives.Kelly Molson:  Yeah, I think because we've spoken in the past, I always very much saw your role. Well, the conversations that we've had about your role, and will have always been that you've been on the side of the operations as well. So you, you know, you do have that kind of contact with the visitors. And you have that you kind of broach that in between bit between the accountant and the ops department. If that makes sense. That's how it came across to me anyway.Simon Addison:  Yeah, I think that's fair. I think before I came to the Baths, I was at the National Trust my job title there was Finance Business Partner. And I think that really was, that was much more. Well, my role now is similar, but it's about working with operational staff and helping them to achieve their objectives. And I think people can see finance can see budgets, as, you know, an intimidating subject. And actually, really, their tool to achieve your objectives. And I think, you know, particularly in an organisation like the National Trust, you join the National Trust as a gardener or arranger or conservator, because you're passionate about those things, if you're good at them, you get given a budget. And I think, then all of a sudden, you're responsible for not just, your garden, but also how much you spend looking after it. And I think sitting down with those people who may be wanting to spend more money or needed new equipment, and sort of demystifying the accounts, how they worked. That's what I find really rewarding, churning out a set of accounts or a budget in and of itself, isn't a particularly rewarding process. It's about, sitting down with someone who didn't think they could achieve X or Y that year and making them realise that actually, it's it is achievable if they manage their money slightly differently. I think that's a really rewarding place to be.Kelly Molson:  Yeah, absolutely. And that's that kind of alludes to some of the stuff that we can talk about today, because you've been through a really interesting pricing journey at the Baths. And I want you to talk us through what you've done. And then we can talk about some of the impacts that's actually had because it's incredibly impressive. And I think people listening will be really, really intrigued by this. So variable pricing. Tell us why you took that direction in the first place. How did this come to happen?Simon Addison:  Sure. I joined the Baths in autumn 2017. So we've just come out of the summer over the summer at the Baths we open 13 hours a day. So open the doors at nine o'clock in the morning through to 10 o'clock at night. We've got the gas flares going Torchlight experience. It's a fantastic time, but it takes its toll on staff opening for that length of time, and we just had our busiest ever summer. So in the Spring, in early summer of 2017, there were some terror attacks in London and in Manchester. And one of the consequences of that is that we saw an almost immediate spike in visitors to Bath I think people perceive Bath as being a relatively safe city, you can drive pretty much into the centre of it. And people who get to their own bus without needing to engage in public transport and, and so almost overnight, you could see that sort of spike in visitors. And frankly, we weren't prepared for it. So the staff had come out of a summer where we'd seen huge numbers of visitors that we perhaps weren't ready for. But actually, over the course of the previous three or four years, visitor numbers have been growing steadily. And we were doing nothing to really manage those numbers or influence when people came. So we could start the year telling you what our busiest day of the year was going to be. And all we did was brace ourselves.So coming out of that sort of 2017 year, I was new in post, we also had a new commercial manager, new in post, we started to think about what we could do differently. And I went to an Alpha Finance Directors meeting, where Baker Richards, the consultants did a presentation on pricing strategy. And Debbie Rich's talked about the fact that if all you do is increase your price by inflation every year, you haven't got a pricing strategy. And we weren't even doing that we were just putting 50 P on it, not linking it to inflation. And all we were doing was making a bit more money each year. But we weren't really shaping anything to do with our visitor behaviour. All of the visitors arrived in concentration in the summer, as you would expect. But also within an individual day, we would have peaks at 11 o'clock and two o'clock, which will be familiar to lots of people who work in attractions. And again, we didn't try and do anything to smooth those visitors through the day, obviously, the experience suffered at our busiest times. And also, because we're not a particularly big site, anyone that's been will know that, you know, there are quite a lot of enclosed spaces, and visitors get very close to the Roman monument. And if you've packing in six or seven thousand people in a day, or with rucksacks on or turning round all the time, there's a sort of a conservation impact of those, that number of people coming through the monument. And if they're knocking off bits of Roman stone, you can't really just stick it back on.Kelly Molson:  Not plastic fruit, is it, Simon?Simon Addison:  It's not plastic fruit. No, it's not. And so we were, yes, we were making money, but our visitor experience scores were suffering. And also our conservation objectives were not being delivered by having that concentration of people through the year. So after that, we sort of engaged Baker Richards or we went through a tender process, and ended up appointing Baker Richards to help us with a pricing strategy.Kelly Molson:  So what did that look like in terms of your team? Because I'd love to know who you got involved in that process. Because I think sometimes things can happen back office, that there's an agreement that this is what we're going to do, but we don't necessarily get all of the right members of the team involved from the start. So what did that look like for you?Simon Addison:  For us, it looked like a multidisciplinary team. So we have people from across the business involved in that we set up a Project Steering Group, and we had members of staff from the on that group, I thought was particularly important to get the staff involved early, because ultimately, they're the people that are going to sell the ticket to the customer. So if a customer walks up and the member of staff, the visitor experience host that greets them doesn't feel the tickets worth the selling price, then that will come across in the welcome. And equally, if they do you feel it's worth the price, they understand the reason that we've implemented this strategy and the journey that we're going on, then they can sell it with confidence, and they can articulate it. And if someone turns around and says is expensive, they're ready to defend that price.So we had V involved from the start, it was also really important to get senior leadership buy in from across the business. So making sure that the curatorial staff understood that we were trying to manage down the numbers, or not done the numbers overall, but manage the numbers of peak times and smooth the visitors throughout the year for a specific conservation objective was really important, because I think, you know, in visitor attractions, usually, there's a tension between the conservation objectives and the provision of access to that, whether it's a museum, whether it's a historic garden or house. The more people you let through a space, the more impact it has from a conservation objective. So holding those two things, intention, conservation and access are usually when, in my experience, we deliver best as a business, meeting the needs both of our visitors, but also the collections and buildings that we're caring for. So making sure that everyone was signed up for the objectives at the start was really important. And then obviously, we had marketing involved, because again, they need to be able to be confident that we can sell these prices that we're not gonna get a load of feedback that was too expensive. And sort of the commercial professionals that you'd expect as well.Kelly Molson:  So what did it look like? When you started to go through this process? How did you work out what that pricing was going to be?Simon Addison:  When we engaged Baker Richards, the first sort of phase of the project was a discovery phase. So we gave them access to lots of historic data. So they took our ticketing data, they could look at how many people we had day by day, week by week, and they went back over five years, they also took the retail sales data so that, you know, because one of the things we didn't want to do was to make more money Front of House as people walked in, and then compromise our retail spend. So they looked at the range of data that we had available. And one of the features of the bars that they were able to identify is that we were quite predictable. As a site, our visitor numbers were fairly predictable; month by month and week by week. And what that meant is they could be quite confident about the level of demand, we were seeing whether that was from domestic or international visitors, and that gave them more confidence in the recommendations they were making. Because we had a regular repeatable pattern of visitation, they were then able to stay with confidence, this model shouldn't impact on that, if we were a less regular site was prone to more I don't know whether or seasonal fluctuations, then it might have been more difficult to have those that level of confidence. So we sort of the initial phase we went through was that discovery phase, they took the data, they analysed it. And we also gave them a really clear brief, we didn't just want to make more money. We felt really strongly that actually as a heritage site, we didn't want to just become a luxury product that was only available to middle classes. So we gave them a brief that we wanted some of our prices to reduce. And we wanted to not price up every school holiday, you know, what you might call the Centre Park pricing model where you can, you can sort of identify when the school holidays are by the fact that price triples. So we gave them a really clear brief. And they went through that data discovery phase initially, and came back to us halfway through the project and sort of presented back the data analysis that they'd done and said, "This is our picture of your business, does it chime with your own understanding?" And for me, that was one of the biggest, you know, as well as getting a pricing strategy out of it, having some consultants look at your business, and effectively validate all the analysis that you do yourself was really helpful. Reassuringly, for us, they didn't tell us anything we didn't know. But it is a validation of the quality of the performance, management and the business analysts that I have working in my team that, you know, they're producing EMI, that that was consistent and telling a consistent story with what Baker Richards did.Kelly Molson:  And so what decisions did you come to about the pricing? And how does it work now, and because I want to talk about how it works then but also, this was pre pandemic, right? So then you had the pandemic to deal with as well. So what did you put in place?Simon Addison:  So to start with, we ended up with a relatively simple pricing structure. We had three price points during the year, we had that sort of summer, peak price period, if you like, we had the shoulder months, so spring and autumn, and then we had the off peak period through the winter. And within that, weekdays were always cheaper than weekends. Every time a visitor looked at our website, there was always a choice to be made about what price they wanted to pay. And when we were first speaking to Baker Richards, they gave this great example; it was one of the kids theatre shows it may have been Peppa Pig World or something. And parents were taking their kids to see Peppa Pig at the theatre. And there was a balloon on sale and was four pounds for this balloon. And they were getting loads of complaints about people not wanting to spend four pounds on a balloon. Next year, they sold two balloons, they sold one balloon for four pounds, they sold one balloon for eight pounds. Not only did they get no complaints about the balloon, for four pounds, they sold a load of eight pound balloons, because all of a sudden, people go into the theatre, we're presented with a choice. They could either buy no balloon, but if they did want to buy a balloon, they could choose to buy a four pound balloon or they could choose to buy an eight pound balloon. And so it's then been their choice as to the price they've paid. And so for us with visitors, they're looking at the website, there's always a choice that they can make. So when they choose to come on a Saturday, they know that they could have chosen to come on a Friday and it would have been cheaper, but the Saturday met their needs. So the price they've paid is a choice they've made based on the needs they've got. And so that was introducing that element of choice was a really important feature of the pricing structure.Kelly Molson:  Yes, you're empowering them to make the decision about it, not forcing them into a decision.Simon Addison:  Absolutely. And I think the other thing we did in that first iteration of the pricing strategy was introduced an online discount because we knew lots of people looked at our website before they came, but very few people committed to purchase on the website. Most people came in and joined the queue. And that meant that we couldn't manage their arrival time because they just joined the queue and they'd get in when they got in. So we were seeing sort of five or 7% pre booking before the pandemic, and before we introduced this strategy, we introduced the strategy we put in a 10% online discount. And overnight, we saw a doubling in the number of people that were pre booking. So for us, that was really helpful in terms of predicting their arrival time, but for our marketing team as well, all of a sudden, we had the postcode of where these people were coming from is valuable data that we weren't getting beforehand. Pre booking has become slightly more important over the last couple of years. And we no longer have that discount for online because it's been a necessity. So but that was one of the features of that first iteration of the strategy.Kelly Molson:  Amazing. And how did your visitors engage with it? What was the feedback when you launched it?Simon Addison:  We didn't get a lot of direct feedback about the fact that we had a new pricing strategy, because the Baths is, you know, one of our features is that we're a tickbox destination. So we're 80% first time visitors. So in implementing a new strategy, we didn't have to concern ourselves too much with the person that said, "Oh, you were cheaper last year, or you've done something different to last year", because those people by and large, don't come year after year. Most people who've been before came on a school trip as I came 20 years ago, it's changed a bit. And so it's definitely a different model, we operate to some other attractions. But what we did see, we saw some complaints, but we saw complaints before the strategy came in. So we saw no more complaints on price than we did beforehand. And we saw many fewer complaints about crowding. And our value for money score increased, and has continued to increase each year with since we increased our prices. Kelly Molson:  That's brilliant.Simon Addison:  And I think it comes back to that choice element. So your visitors are standing there, and they've made a choice to pay that money. And so they didn't feel like they wanted to come to the Baths, and they had to pay the price. They wanted to come to the Baths, and they were able to choose which price met their needs and the day that they wanted to come and I think that's translated through to those scores.Kelly Molson:  Absolutely. I'm definitely never gonna pay a pound for a balloon. No, I'm just putting that out there. It's not happening.Simon Addison:  Me, I wouldn't pay four pounds either. Kelly Molson:  Who needs a balloon? You're just gonna let it go.Simon Addison:  And then you gotta pop it. And it's gonna be a source of disappointment. Kelly Molson:  Wow, in the wrong business. Right. This was pre pandemic. So this was 2017, you started this process 2017? Simon Addison:  Yeah, yeah. 2017, I joined, we did the sort of discovery and design the strategy 2018, implemented in 2019. And we had our best ever year in terms of visitor numbers in 2019. But all of the growth came outside of the June, July and August period. So our growth came in April and May and September and October. So from that sort of objective of smoothing out the visitors through the year, we achieved that by pushing people out into the shoulder months. And also, we didn't have one day over 7000 visitors. In fact, we didn't have one day over six and a half 1000 visitors. Now, that's still a lot of people through quite a small space. But we certainly drove out those peaks that we were seeing before we implemented the strategy. And as importantly, we made 2.3 million pounds extra revenue in the first year of the strategy. And Baker Rich's modelling suggested that we'd make 2.4 million. So they were really incredibly accurate terms of the modelling that they'd done. And the returns that were possible through this strategy. And it delivered so accurately to that really impressive bit of work.Kelly Molson:  I mean, that is a phenomenal impact, isn't it? The difference that has made is just so impressive. But that was 2019. What has happened since COVID?Simon Addison:  So I think, because we had multiple price points through the year before COVID, it was much easier for us to reopen with a model that was reactive. I think if we'd only ever had a fixed price point, changing the price would have been a really big thing for us. Whereas we changed our price twice a week. And so being able to sort of reopen in the summer of 2020. With our plan summer pricing, we came to the end of August. And we were still seeing really strong demand against a much reduced capacity. And so we kept the prices at our peak price through September and October. And because we already had those price points built into our pricing structure, it was really easy for us to just take that decision to continue with the higher prices and maximise the revenue from the visitors that were coming through. And I'd say that arguably the 300,000 pounds of additional revenue we made from the pricing structure in 2020 was more useful than the 2.3 million that we made the year before because you know there was revenue was so scarce at that point. And so, being more reactive was really important. Obviously, we ditched the online discount because online booking became a mandatory feature of going anywhere. So you don't need to discount something that visitors had to do. And I think also it just having gone through a year where we charged more, we had the confidence that visitors were prepared to pay for that. And so coming out of COVID, in late 2020, we did a phase two piece of work with Baker Richards, looking at what happened in 2019. But also what was happening in our sort of COVID reopening. And what that showed is that even though we'd increase the prices quite significantly through the summer, in 2019, it had a negligible impact on the demand. So that gave us the confidence to be even punchier in that sort of that June, July and August period, with our peak pricing, and we don't articulate it this way on our website. But effectively, we introduced a super peak price going into 2021. So having never charged more than 17 pounds in 2018, this summer, we've charged 27.50. Not for a long period of the year, it's only at the weekends. And it's only during June, July and August. So it's only 15 days a year or something. But having that headline price, I think Dom from Mary Rose talked about decoy pricing when he was on, it's almost that sort of if you've got that high headline price, then everything else feels comparatively good value, as you as you trade down from that. So people are saying, "Well, you know, let's not go on Saturday, we'll go on Wednesday, because it's three pounds cheaper or whatever", or if you're buying a family ticket even more. So I think using that sort of that headline price as a decoy having real confidence about the quality of your product. So yes, it's worth it, because people are prepared to pay for it. But also, if you look at what else people are prepared to spend 27 pounds on, people have spent 27 pounds on lots of different things. So why is the Roman Baths or why is the Tower of London or Stonehenge? Yeah, they're all equally valid cause on people's leisure spend. And we should be confident about the quality of product that we we give to people.Kelly Molson:  You mentioned earlier about retail spent, and this not having an effect on it. What was the effect on retail spend, once you transition to the variable pricing?Simon Addison:  There was no impact at all. So we didn't see an increase in retail spend pre pandemic, we just saw no impact at all. For anyone who's been to the Baths, we've got a really small shop, we're confined by being in the centre of Bath, we'd love to be able to expand our shop. But when we do, our benchmarking, we're consistently performing in the top two or three sites for sales per square metre. So we just know that we can't fit enough people in that shop for the number of people that come through the site. And the work that Baker Richards did showed the display visitor numbers increasing year on year, the number of transactions that were taking place to the shop hadn't been keeping pace, basically our busiest times the shop had reached saturation point. So it may be that some people decided not to go into the shop because they'd paid more to come in. But for anyone that decided that there was someone who has bypassed the shop before, because, you know, they just looked in when Bath was too busy. So for anyone who was not going into the shop, there were other customers who were prepared to go in. And since COVID, our retail spend has been through the roof. And you our spend per visitor this year is 50 pence a visitor higher than it was pre COVID. And I can't tell you why, Kelly. Kelly Molson:  I was gonna ask, why?Simon Addison:  Obviously, high quality ranges and my retail colleagues would not forgive me if I said it was anything other than the quality of product in there. But I think certainly when we first reopened from COVID people were just glad to be out. There was a sense, particularly if you've had a lot done experience like mine with small children, you were just glad to be anywhere other than your own house. And our top selling lines before COVID were toiletries because we bought the bars, spa and well being but people didn't want to buy toiletries, because you know, in 2020, no one's picking up anything and sniffing it. That felt like quite a risky thing to do. But we saw gin and that was a genius move. So we sold gin and children's books. And I think, you know, most people's lockdown experiences was similar to mine, not enough gin and not enough children's books. So they came to the Roman Baths and they bought both of those things in spades. But you know, as toiletries have come back through that they're picking up in terms of sales, but people spending a lot of money, buying high priced jewellery product. I wish I could tell you why. You should have asked Callum when he was on.Kelly Molson:  Yeah, yeah, I should. Well, I'll post the question to him and see if he knows. Yeah, it's interesting. I wonder if it's that. I mean, I was very conscious of visiting attractions and spending money in the retail stores because of the fact that they'd been shut. I wanted to spend more money. I wanted to do my bit because I wanted those places to stay open. So I wonder if there's still a residue of that happening when people are visiting?Simon Addison:  I think in 2020, we would definitely put it down to that and you could almost see it as well. And there was a sense that people had saved money. Whether that was on commuting costs or childcare bills or whatever, there was a sense that people would save money during the lockdowns and therefore they had more disposable income. But we're coming up with the cost of living pressures. We're coming into winter with massive uncertainty. And every month, I look at those returning members, and I'm waiting for that spend per visitor to drop, and it hasn't done yet. So I think it's more than just a sort of an altruistic desire to support the attractions. Or maybe it's about people choosing to prioritise this activity of their spend over, I don't know Netflix subscriptions or something. So, yeah, I can't answer that question. But we're glad to see it.Kelly Molson:  I'll ask Callum. I'll ask Callum Lumsden of Lumsden Design and see if he can tell us and shed some light on it. All right. So what I'd really like to know, if you could give me your top tips for people that are thinking about going through this process, what would they be if anyone that's listening? Now that's thinking this is a genius thing to do, I would like to add 2.3 million to my revenue, please.Simon Addison:  I think the first thing is being really clear on your objectives. So for us, it wasn't just about making more money, we'd have ended up with a pricing strategy that looked different if we wanted to just make more money. So the ability to deliver something for visitor experience objectives and conservation objectives was really important, and really featured heavily in the brief that we gave to Baker Richards. So starting out with that clarity of purpose, I think would be my first tip. I'd also say if I know budgets are tight at the moment, but if you can pay for the analysis, then firstly, it's such a helpful validation of your own business analysis that you're doing yourselves. But when you need to sell this inwardly, so we're part of the council, we needed to sell this strategy and inwardly to local politicians and the council leadership. But if you're in a more sort of typical attraction, you're going to need to sell this to your trustees. And having that sort of analysis as a validation of your strategy. And your approach will hopefully give them the confidence that increasing prices by a significant percentage is not a ridiculous thing to do, certainly involving your front of house teams. And that's not linked to pricing strategy that's just linked to anything you do in your attraction, your Front of House Team are the people that are going to hear from the visitors what they think about it, they're the person who has got to explain your own strategic direction to the visitors when they're in front of them. But particularly when it comes to pricing, I think making sure that they're involved, they've got a chance to ask questions. And also that you're giving them that feedback as well. So that sort of regular communication, once you've implemented it, tell them whether what you're seeing is what you expected to see. Because otherwise, if there's a void in that communication, they'll fill it with their own analysis, or we didn't seem very busy last Saturday, and it might not have been busy last Saturday, because it was pouring with rain, as opposed to your pricing strategy is not working. So making sure that you're having that regular dialogue with those teams on an ongoing basis. And I think the final thing is holding your nerve. And that, you know, when we'd never charged more than 17 pounds before that first Saturday, when our prices were 22 pounds, there's a level of nervousness that is associated with that. And so holding the nerve when price setting, we could do a whole separate podcast on communicating with the travel trade. But it's safe to say, that was probably the most challenging aspect of the project in terms of moving the travel trade on to a variable pricing model when they have a, you know, they sell in advance, they sell through third parties. And that was a really difficult set of conversations. But we held our nerve. And despite being told that they wouldn't be able to work with us, they wouldn't be able to bring us the volume. 2019, they bought us more people and they never bought us before. So so there is a bit about holding nerve. And I think post implementation, don't be tempted to tinker too much. Because otherwise you won't know if the strategy didn't work or whether you fiddled with it, and then it didn't work. So I think if you change too many things at once this is the nerd in me, you change too many things at once, you can't tell what's made the difference. So trying to only change one thing, will tell you whether that one thing works or not. Obviously, go through a pandemic, you change everything all at once. And it's very difficult. But generally speaking, if you can sort of make change in a stage where you can measure the impact of an intervention, whereas if you change four or five things at once, you don't know what's caused it, cause the effect that you're seeing. So those would be my top tips. I think Kelly.Kelly Molson:  Absolutely excellent advice. Simon, I know that you are an ALVA member, I know that you're really keen to speak with other attractions. I know that you're very well obviously you've come on the podcast to share your insight and I know you're very keen to do that. So I'm sure if anyone does have questions around the OTA challenge or variable pricing, I'm sure that you'd be super happy to talk to people.Simon Addison:  Yeah, always happy to.Kelly Molson:  We will pop all of Simon's details in terms of, we will put his LinkedIn profile and a link to the Roman Baths in the show notes. So if you do want to reach out to him and ask him any questions, please feel free. Simon, a book that you would recommend to our listeners something that you love or something that shaped your career. What do you have for us today?Simon Addison:  This was a difficult question. I tried really hard to think of a workbook that had changed my career. And I really could I've read workbooks, but there's not one that I go back to time and time again. So, so I've picked fiction books, I've picked 1000 Splendid Suns, which is a novel by Khaled Hosseini, which is set in Afghanistan. And I don't think many people are going to choose this book after I describe it. It's not an uplifting read, it's a really challenging read. The central characters are women living in Afghanistan, forced into marriage during a time when the Taliban influence was growing. But I think I read at a time when Afghanistan was in the news a lot. And we were probably presented with a relatively one dimensional interpretation of Afghanistan, in the way that the news coverage came through. And so it offered me an insight into sort of, I guess, Life beyond the headlines. And despite the fact that it was a really harrowing read at times, there was a sense of hope that came through even the most difficult situations. And I think that really stayed with me. And as somebody who's probably we're very interested in sort of world affairs and politics, I think, it really challenged me to make sure that you sort of read around the topic. If you before coming up with a really definite position or opinion on a world situation, the need to sort of read around something. And I know, this wasn't a it wasn't a fact book. It was a fiction book. But I think it really changed my perspective on Afghanistan. So I don't think many people want to read it. But if you want a really harrowing read, but you know, that sense of hope and really difficult times, it is a great book.Kelly Molson:  Thank you. Well, thank you for sharing. I'm sure people will want that. And if you do, if you go over to our Twitter account, @skip_the_queue, and you retweet this podcast announcement with the words "I want Simon's book", you could be in with a chance of winning it. Simon, thank you. It's been lovely to chat to you. I always enjoy chatting to you. Even though I called you a nerd earlier. I apologise about that. Simon Addison:  I forgive you, Kelly.Kelly Molson:  If you do have a little pop quiz that you'd like me and Simon to join that you think would be useful for, please do let us know. On that note, I think we'll end the podcast there. Thanks, Simon. It's been fun.Simon Addison: Thanks, Kelly.Kelly Molson:  Thanks for listening to Skip The Queue. If you've enjoyed this podcast, please leave us a five star review. It really helps others find us. And remember to follow us on Twitter for your chance to win the books that have been mentioned. Skip the queue is brought to you by Rubber Cheese, a digital agency that builds remarkable systems and websites for attractions that helps them increase their visitor numbers. You can find show notes and transcriptions from this episode and more over on our website, rubbercheese.com/podcast.

Bath, England: The People Who Saved Their Pub Season 5 – Gap Year: UK Episode 3 (Full episode) https://youtu.be/kHjzKYy3Db8 Would your community come together to save a local business? It happened near Bath, England and it saved a 400 year-old pub. The Packhorse pub opened in the 1600s but had to shut its doors in 2012. The community wouldn't have it. They launched a “Save the Packhorse” campaign that ultimately restored and reopened the pub on its 400th anniversary. Tune in to this episode of Travel FOMO to hear about Jamin and Hilarie's hike to South Stoke, where this unique pub is thriving. And despite the wet spring weather, the couple spent countless hours wandering the streets of Bath, where they visited the Roman Baths museum, attended Palm Sunday service at Bath Abbey, hit up a thrift store, and find the tiny Gin Distillery & Herbal Apothecary. Subscribe to Travel FOMO in two different ways: (1) See their adventures on YouTube and (2) Follow audibly from wherever you listen to podcasts. Why? Because they're traveling to 18 different countries in the coming year, and you won't want to miss it. Travel FOMO is hosted by a husband and wife duo, Jamin and Hilarie Houghton. Learn more about them at www.travelfomopodcast.com. Follow us on social media: Instagram: www.instagram.com/travelfomopodcast Facebook: www.facebook.com/travelfomopodcast TikTok: www.tiktok.com/@travelfomopodcast

Are you visiting Rome this summer and wondering what to do? If you'd like a unique, truly Roman experience then head to one of Rome's theaters for opera & music performances. In June don't miss the Rome Chamber Music Festival! Also lots of performances outdoors including the historic Roman Baths location at Caracalla. Tune in for all the details, plus other great things to do in Rome this summer! Lots of links and photos in the show notes on the Flavor of Italy website.

Thermae Bath Spa in the Roman city of Bath is in a building that looks not only to the past, but also to the future. 

英國巴斯，一個在1987年被聯合國教科文組織列為世界文化遺產的城市，在此不僅可看到昔日羅馬帝國留下的遺跡外，如羅馬浴場，這裡還有個英國唯一天然溫泉浴場 Thermae Bath Spa。當然這城市的豐富內涵不僅如此，收聽本集了解造訪巴斯時必造訪的非觀光客景點以及這座結合現代與舊歷史的建築是如何將羅馬帝國時泡湯的體驗穿越兩千年原地重現！別忘了巴斯亦是已故英國小說家 珍·奧斯丁居住過並是為家鄉的地方。

Our season finale! We finish off our season with some 'on location' clips from Ben's trip to visit Nicky in Bath, a city with a landmark so good they named itself after it. After a few extra bonus clips from the series Ben and Nicky wrap up by discussing the four landmarks in Bath that Clive Aslet put in his book "Landmarks of Britain: The Five Hundred Places that Made Our History". And it an episode wouldn't be complete without a guests alternative pick, this time of the swimming pool variety.

This week Tom Hardwidge joins Seoirse to talk about how he discovered the indie dev community, how he founded his company Tall Story Games and how he managed to make his game Hair Of The Dog in less than two weeks! He also finds time to talk about his collaboration with the Roman Baths in Bath, UK to make his Roman era set game Where’s my Cloak and his fun game Lockdown: The point & click game. Finally, he tells us what to expect from the Kickstarter for retro Lucasarts inspired game Lucy Dreaming what we can expect from the game and how he managed to find the perfect voice actor for the role!Tall Story Games Official SiteWhere's My Cloak Official SiteLockdown Official SiteHair of the DogLucy Dreaming Official SiteLucy Dreaming KickstarterTwitch StreamsAdventure Games Podcast TwitchLaura Cress TwitchTomas Becks TwitchIf you would like to stay up to date make sure you subscribe to the podcast. You can subscribe and listen to this podcast on Itunes and Spotify and all other major Podcast Platforms! You can also subscribe to our Youtube channel for extra video content such as video reviews, video interviews, trailers and gameplay.You can also support the podcast at our PatreonYou can review this podcast here: https://ratethispodcast.com/adventuregamespodcast You can also find this podcast on our social media below:Facebook Twitter Instagram DiscordYou can also find the RSS feed here: http://www.adventuregamespodcast.com/podcast?format=rssLogo created by Siobhan. You can find her on Twitter and InstagramMusic is Speedy Delta (ID 917) by Lobo Loco and can be found here:http://freemusicarchive.org/music/Lobo_Loco/Welcome/Speedy_Delta_ID_917_1724

Comedian Fern Brady takes her boyfriend Conor to the Roman Baths in Bath, where they discover how the Romans’ ‘curse tablets’ compare to irate Facebook statuses of today, look at the representation of sexuality in Roman times, and even get to taste a sample of the water. During their visit they consider what connects us with the Romans through time, and how people have used the Baths as a meeting place for thousands of years. Series 5 of Meet Me at the Museum was recorded in accordance with Covid-19 guidelines. See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information.

Breakdown of Essential Life and Business Skills: The Academy Provides Skype Consultations in: 1. Professional English Language Communication 2. Business Productivity and Profitability 3. Individual Lifestyle Development Strategy YOUTUBE: www.youtube.com/user/gwhnsa?feature=mhee INSTAGRAM: www.instagram.com/graham.w.hendrey/ FACEBOOK: www.facebook.com/graham.hendrey TWITTER: twitter.com/HendreyW LINKEDIN: www.linkedin.com/in/graham-william-hendrey FREE BOOKS: mailchi.mp/9f8ce916de23/i6c1qbao7x CONTACT: gwhnsa@gmail.com

This week, Ben and Jenny discuss the bisexual 17th Century singer, fencer and nun-burner, Julie d'Aubigny. They also discuss the bisexual (and possibly transgender) Syrian-born Roman emperor, Elagabalus, and their short but tyrannous reign.

For this week’s Open House, I’m taking you through some structures (mainly the Roman Baths) related to public bathing in Bath!! Partly inspired by watching the first episode of Bridgerton (which is filmed in Bath, that’s basically the only connection), I’ll be guiding you through the baths that made this spa town what it is, and comparing Roman and 18th century styles of bathing. Get ready to hear the word ‘bath’ so many times you’ll stop registering it as a real word! Learn more and bibliography-- https://docs.google.com/document/d/15JnMKMhTaP31ANvfE4oWPTxrkuSkmO60sijn33iIhf4/edit?usp=sharing Reflections on the attempted coup (January 6th, 2021)-- https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ivWJvyZi0mPLdrWZfUvXQOaoTABxnHK_SYuh5YEBw7o/edit?usp=sharing --- This episode is sponsored by · Anchor: The easiest way to make a podcast. https://anchor.fm/app

Skip the Queue is brought to you by Rubber Cheese, a digital agency that builds remarkable systems and websites for attractions that helps them increase their visitor numbers. Your host is  Kelly Molson, MD of Rubber Cheese.Download our free ebook The Ultimate Guide to Doubling Your Visitor NumbersIf you like what you hear, you can subscribe on iTunes, Spotify, and all the usual channels by searching Skip the Queue or visit our website rubbercheese.com/podcastIf you've enjoyed this podcast, please leave us a five star review, it really helps others find us. And remember to follow us on Twitter for your chance to win the books that have been mentioned in this episode.Competition ends March 31st 2021. The winner will be contacted via Twitter. Show references:Jon Young is Director of BVA-BDRC. With over a decade in the Culture, Tourism and Leisure. Author of Holiday Trends since 2012 and working across a range of quantitative and qualitative methodologies.www.linkedin.com/in/jon-young-9451a92a/www.bva-bdrc.comhttps://hcontent.bva-bdrc.com/clearsightwww.bathnes.gov.ukwww.painshill.co.uk Transcription:Kelly Molson: Welcome to Skip the Queue, a podcast for people working in or working with visitor attractions. I'm your host, Kelly Molson. Each episode, I speak with industry experts from the attractions world. In today's episode, I speak with Jon Young, Director at BVA BDRC, an award-winning international consumer insight consultancy. We discuss their exciting new research around pre-booking and what the drawbacks to this are in the eyes of the visitor. If you like what you hear, you can subscribe on iTunes, Spotify, and all the usual channels by searching Skip the Queue. Kelly Molson: Jon, thank you for joining me on the podcast today. It's really lovely to see you again.Jon Young: Yeah, you too. And yeah, I've been listening for quite a while now. So it's an honor to actually to be on here as well. I think it's got a great role to play for the industry. So thank you as well for doing it.Kelly Molson: Aww, Jon, thank you. That's super kind of you, right? Don't be too nice to me yet because you know that we're going to go into our icebreaker questions.Jon Young: Yeah. Which I'm a bit worried about.Kelly Molson: Don't be worried. I think I've been quite kind to you, Jon. So I want to know what would you rather give up, your smartphone or your computer?Jon Young: I would say my smartphone definitely because I'm always trying to spend less time on it and I think that'd be a great way of doing that. I have actually read stories of people who've done it, but they've never sort of followed it through. But yeah, so definitely the smartphone.Kelly Molson: What do you do to try and reduce your screen time? Do you lock it in a drawer in the evenings or-?Jon Young: I've put it into a separate room. I've tried that. What else have I done? You can set your settings so it's grayscale. And apparently, that sort of deactivates the colors in some of your apps, which makes them less appealing. I've actually tried quite a lot and miserably failed. I've read loads of books about that sort of thing, but I'm still sort of scrolling through a tad at night and it's next to my bed at night as well. So I've failed at that. So if you could take it away from me, I'm sure my wife would say thank you as well if you do that.Kelly Molson: Okay. I don't know if I can help you with that because I'm the world's worst. It's difficult, isn't it? Because I think I like to engage with people. We speak on Twitter every now and again. And I think that the Twitter platform and LinkedIn for me-Jon Young: Yeah. Actually, that is something I've done. So I can't access Twitter on my phone now, is just through my laptop. So that has helped. But you end up just wheeling that out then at night.Kelly Molson: I'll just get my laptop out and check.Jon Young: Yeah, check something. Yeah.Kelly Molson: Okay. All right. Next one, what was your least favorite food as a child? And do you still hate it or do you love it now?Jon Young: Mushrooms. I remember quite clearly when I was about five years old, my dad tried to feed me a mushroom. I think he thought that this would be a good way to get me to like them. And I hated them and he chose to... He actually physically puts it in my mouth and I bit his finger. And he didn't talk to me for a while. He had a few stern words. I remember it really clearly. And my wife, she's Polish and they love going mushroom picking whenever we're in Poland. It's like quite a regular pastime. So they go into the woods and they go mushroom picking and they really, really try to get me to like them. But I think I read that if you eat something five times, then you will like it. So maybe I just need to do that, but I still hate it.Kelly Molson: So you still hate them. You're still a mushroom hater. I think that's quite common, isn't it? Mushrooms are a bit of... They're a bit marmite for people, aren't they?Jon Young: Yeah. I like marmite, but mushrooms, no, unfortunately, but it's an ambition to like them.Kelly Molson: To like mushrooms?Jon Young: Yeah. That's what lockdown does. You have these weird ambitions.Kelly Molson: I love that. It's such a strange goal, Jon. Okay.Jon Young: Well, I'm full of them. Kelly Molson: All right. Well, let's go to the unpopular opinion. So tell me something that you believe to be true that hardly anybody agrees with you on.Jon Young: So I struggle with this. So I've oscillated between going really superficial to really deep. So I've ended up with something a little bit superficial, but so my unpopular opinion is that I really don't enjoy Bake Off or Strictly. Just not for me. And I've tried really hard to like both, but I just can't get excited about people baking on TV or dancing. And I like doing both. And I know the masive tube layer or something like that, the dance, and the Soggy Bottom and all that. I can hold a conversation. It's almost like people who don't like football, but they can kind of hold that kitchen conversation.Kelly Molson: You've got the cultural reference down.Jon Young: Yeah, absolutely.Kelly Molson: But you're not down with the shows. Jon Young: But it's a no, unfortunately.Kelly Molson: I'm kind of feeling you on this one because if it's on, if Bake Off's on, I'd watch it, but I'm not a massive baker. So I don't have a huge kind of interest in it. And also, I thought I would love Strictly. I used to tap dance when I was a kid.Jon Young: All right. Okay.Kelly Molson: But I was really big into tap dancing and I thought I'd love it. Just don't love it. I feel like we're taking one for the team there, Jon, because I've agreed with you on this. And I think we're going to get some Twitter backlash.Jon Young: Backlash, yeah.Kelly Molson: Sorry, everyone. But thank you for that, Jon. Jon Young: No worries.Kelly Molson: So Jon, you are Director of the BVA BDRC.Jon Young: Yes. Kelly Molson: It's also a name that I have gotten wrong about four million times on this podcast.Jon Young: I know. It's a nightmare.Kelly Molson: Something needs to be done about this, but tell us a little bit about what you're doing.Jon Young: So with the name, I think it was the brainchild of the founders about 25, maybe 30 years ago now. And they just came up with a name, Business Development Research Consultants, and there were just two of them and it got shortened. And now here we are. There's about a hundred of us and we're stuck with it, but we've got bought by BVA, which didn't help. That's where that comes from. It wasn't some kind of genius branding idea. But yeah. So as a company, we've got an international presence, so we've got offices around the world, but we are so split up into divisions. So we've got two divisions in our London office. So we've got this of the commercial team and that they work with the banks and media. So ITV, Channel 4, et cetera.Jon Young: And then we've got our division, which we call On The Move. And the teamwork in, we sort of specialise with attractions and tourist boards. So I've been there 11 years now. And throughout that time, I've worked pretty much exclusively with visitor attractions and tourist boards, so the likes of Visit Britain, Visit Wales, Visit Scotland and a few overseas as well. So we do market research and we do the whole spectrum really. So it can be anything from focus groups to one-on-one depth interviews, to online surveys. So we do audience segmentation, membership work, pricing, pretty much anything that involves trying to understand what the public thinks. Jon Young: And yeah, we work with loads and loads of brilliant attractions. It's a wonderful sector to work in as I'm sure you know, Kelly. So we work with the little museums and some of the large nationals as well. We run the ALVA Benchmarking Survey. So this is a survey that is conducted a few times a year amongst visitors to around 80 different attractions across the UK. And we then sort of benchmark each attraction against the others just to understand the visitor experience, which marketing they've used, their profile, and a load of other things as well. So it's quite broad, but yeah, it means we work with lots of great organizations.Kelly Molson: It's incredibly useful as well, the things that you provide. And I think one of the ways that we met was through the Visitor Experience Forum.Jon Young: That's right.Kelly Molson: We both spoke on one of their webinars, didn't we?Jon Young: Yeah.Kelly Molson: And I had become aware of what you guys do at the BVA BDRC because of the consumer sentiment tracker that you've been doing all the way through lockdown, which was something you were... It was something that you did off your own back. So tell us a little bit about it because it was incredibly useful for us as a kind of suppliers to the industry, but it must have been a fantastic resource for the sector itself.Jon Young: Yeah, it was really great. So it was actually the brainchild of my colleague, Thomas Folque. I'll give him a name check there because it was his idea back in, I think, late March. And obviously, a lot of our work got canceled. We work with a lot of hotels as well. So that's the other team in our division. And so he just felt it'd be good to have some sort of tracker and then we also discussed it and it grew from there. And there's, I guess, a dual motivation just like any sort of content marketing. It did obviously paint us in a good light. It was a good way to sort of stay in contact with organizations that we worked with, but also to make new contacts. And I think I spoke on about 10 different webinars in the first two months and one of which I met you yourself. Jon Young: But it was also really good for us to help out as well. And most of us in our team, we are regular attractions visitors ourselves, and we've sort of built up relationships with the people we work with as well. So it was nice to be able to provide something for free. And we did that for 23 consecutive weeks. So every week, we produced a new report. It kept some of my colleagues busy as well because I think in the end, it was about 70 pages which is a bit ridiculous by the end of it. But it was full of data to understand how people felt, whether they were open to go out in public and who was and who wasn't and loads and loads of other things. Jon Young: And so we stopped that in August, but we've now gone down to conducting the research on a fortnightly basis and producing a monthly report. And so there should be one actually landing around about now.Kelly Molson: Oh, fabulous.Jon Young: Yeah, it's been a good experience. And when we did stop originally, we had a load of lovely emails from lots of different attractions saying how useful it had been. So yeah, it was worthwhile.Kelly Molson: I think that's something that's really come across from great people in the sector throughout this situation that we've been in, is that things that have... Like you described it. I mean, ultimately, it's a marketing piece. It was a content marketing piece, but it was helpful. And that's what's been really, really important, is that anything that people were pushing out was helpful and useful to the sector. And it was so invaluable to be able to see the snapshot of how people were feeling. And even for us, we were able to kind of build our own content pieces on your content piece because we thought, "Oh, wow, people have really changed their opinion on how they feel about this thing." Now, that's something that affects what we do. Now, we can talk about it. And so, yeah, thank you for doing it because I just think it was such a great and useful piece of data to produce.Jon Young: Yeah. Thank you. And I think I'm not sure if other sectors would have responded so well to, I think, because one thing that's really striking about the attraction sector is just how much everybody works together. And more often than not, they are actually technically competitors, but they don't see it that way. They think that as the sum of the parts is greater than the individual. Yeah. You see that with ALVA and I think we've had lots of organizations who we may sort of compete with also promoting this as well. So yeah, it was great.Kelly Molson: Brilliant. Yeah. And sector communication is something that we've been talking about all the way through this. Long way, it continues.Jon Young: Yeah. Absolutely. Kelly Molson: So this brings us to a very recent and new piece of data that you have been working on. And I'm really excited because I have a little copy of it here, and I feel like there's not many people that have got this. So I feel quite special. Now, this is about a topic that has... We have been talking about this probably since March, but it is still a hot topic and it's on everyone's minds and it's pre-booking. Now, there is a huge debate at the moment around the benefits of pre-booking versus the more kind of traditional walkup approach the attractions have taken. And you've carried out a new piece of research, which is specifically around this. Just give us an overview of what you've done, of what you've carried out.Jon Young: Yeah. So actually listening to your podcast and some of the various conversations that we've witnessed on various webinars, we felt that there was a lot of debates and a lot of opinion that maybe is worth putting some numbers against some of these opinions just to understand what was an issue and what wasn't. So we added, I think, around a dozen questions to our fortnightly tracker that we've just spoken about amongst a nationally representative sample of the UK population. And we just try to understand what proportion of these people had pre-booked, what proportion had booked but not shown up? What were the reasons for this? Were they understandable? Now, what proportion had actually booked and didn't fancy a visit but actually visited because they booked?Jon Young: And then we've also looked at whether people are put off by pre-booking generally. Whether people would think it's a good or a bad thing to go to 100% pre-booking after COVID. And what are the reasons that people like it and the reasons people don't like it? So I guess that's it in a nutshell. And we've also looked at some of the different audiences and dug into some of our other data as well just to understand some of the other issues that people are talking about such as spontaneous visits. So that's it in a nutshell.Kelly Molson: Excellent. Let's dive in to this because it's really interesting. I'd have to say I am a huge advocate for pre-booking. And I know, again, I've said this over and over and over on these podcast interviews. And it's quite surprising. I think I put a post out on LinkedIn a little while ago asking people what their experiences of it are and whether they think it's a good thing, whether they're uncomfortable with it. And the responses I got were really surprising.Kelly Molson: I think potentially because I'm very much a planner and I'm very comfortable to book in advance about what I'm going to do, but obviously, there's a percentage of people that are more spontaneous and they would prefer to just decide what they're going to do on the day. And pre-booking doesn't work for them at all. And it's really fascinating, the data that's come out. So from an attractions perspective, we know what the benefits to the attractions are. We know that pre-booking, it allows them to know how many people are coming. It's great from an operational perspective. They know how much of their team they need in. They can even out that kind of pattern of visitor arrivals throughout the day. And we have seen an increase in donations and gift aid contributions as well via pre-booking. But let's start with what the visitors see as a benefit. How supportive are visitors of pre-booking?Jon Young: So I think it's quite sort of striking that the majority of your markets, so these are people who visit attractions, seven in 10 do think it's a good thing. So 70% stated that they would still go ahead and visit if they found out that the place they had wanted to visit required pre-booking. So that is a strong majority, 70%. We also asked the question in a slightly different way if post-COVID attractions went to 100% pre-booking, would you see this as a good or a bad thing? And 75% stated either a good thing, or it wouldn't make any difference to them. So these are strong majorities who are probably in your camp, Kelly, who are sort of the planners and the organizers and they're fine with this.Kelly Molson: Interesting. But that's not all of them, is it? Okay. Jon Young: Absolutely.Kelly Molson: Which we'll get to in a little while. And what do they see the main benefits of pre-booking is?Jon Young: The main benefit was to be able to plan the time with more certainty. So that was around three in five. So 57% of visitors to indoor attractions. Slightly lower for gardens, and just to make the point that we tested pre-booking at indoor attractions. So looking at museums, art galleries, historic houses, and also gardens and country parks because clearly, the weather has a big impact too. Kelly Molson: Sure.Jon Young: And we also tested the restaurants just to kind of get a feel for that sort of benchmark where pre-booking has been in place for quite a long time. So yeah, the main reason was just the ability to plan in advance. The second most popular reason was that there's less queuing when we get there. So over half stated that. People were allowed to give more than one reason.Jon Young: And then it drops a little bit to around three in 10 stating that places just tend to be less busy. One in four saying, "We can do some research ahead of the visit." And I think personally, I think that's quite an important reason even though only one in four were giving it. I think for me, one of the benefits of pre-booking to the attraction is they can have this conversation with the visitor in advance of the visit. And you can maybe raise awareness of parts of the attraction that you wouldn't necessarily see.Jon Young: Year after year in research we've done with attractions, we speak to big chunks of visitors who say they went for maybe an exhibition, but they had no idea that half of the other elements of a site were there. They didn't know that there was an original version of this document on the back and would have loved to have seen it. So I think being able to have that conversation is really important. But for the visitor, that's one in four. And then one in five stating there are fewer debates about what to do on the day. So I can imagine families, certainly, if it's not spontaneous and it's in the diary a week in advance, then you don't have to have that debate and any sort of toys thrown out of premises.Kelly Molson: Yeah. It's decided in advance, "This is what we're doing on Saturday, team. So let's plan for it." Rather than on the day, maybe have to have multiple conversations with different people in your family group about, what does everybody wants to do? The decision's already been made, we're doing this. Jon Young: Absolutely. Yeah. Kelly Molson: So what about drawbacks? Let's dive into those because I find these really interesting. So what are the drawbacks in the eyes of the visitor?Jon Young: Yeah. So as I mentioned earlier, three in 10 felt it was actually... They'd probably think twice and not visit and one in four saying it's a bad thing post-COVID. And the number one reason that people don't like to book ahead was that they just don't like to commit to things too early. They prefer to be spontaneous. And that was 67% of those who thought it was a bad thing to go to 100% pre-booking. So that's quite a big chunk of people who are quite spontaneous in their behavior. And we had some really... I thought, some quite interesting quotes alongside that. So we asked people just to write out, "Why do you think is a bad thing?" I'll just read a few of those out. "I like to be able to make spontaneous decisions in my life. I don't like to be tied to a time. Because I often visit places when I'm passing by." Jon Young: And we've noticed in our research that if it's a city center attraction, particularly if it's free, you will often have up to one in five of your visitors actually deciding to visit when passing. And I do this quite often myself. Our office is in Holborn in Central London. So you'll often go for a walk maybe at lunchtime or after work. And I might sometimes walk past the British Museum. And I think, "Actually, I might just pop in," or any number of others in the area. And when I was working in Birmingham, there's Birmingham Museum and Art Gallery, similar sort of thing. You can easily just pop in. And there's a lot of people for whom attractions are just nice places to be. And it's just that they might choose it over a café or over a park just because it's a nice place to spend some time. So that was quite interesting. Jon Young: The next couple I thought were also quite an interesting. So one person said, "If you plan on visiting several places in a day, that means a lot of booking and you have to be hyper-organized."Kelly Molson: Which again, with a family, that's difficult, right? It's hard enough to get people out of the house on time to get to the first attraction at the time that you've booked. But then you're constantly clock-watching because you think, "Well, we've got to get to here at this point as well." And things might happen that way-lead you.Jon Young: Paul had actually said he had his own personal experience of going to London during half term and with his son and then maybe they had a few museums planned and it's actually quite hard sticking to time. Yeah. So I think that's actually one that I hadn't thought of beforehand because you kind of think in the silo, don't you? I'm pre-booking one place. But the reality is people try to squeeze loads in, especially if they're visiting Central London or a big city.Kelly Molson: Yeah, completely. And from my personal view, I had kind of not considered how close people might be to attractions and how easy it is just to nip in. You described where your office is in Holborn. We're outside of London. So for me, I'm always kind of making a trip somewhere to go to something. So I've got to get into London first. So for me, I'm kind of always doing that plan ahead. There isn't really those opportunities to be spontaneous where I live. So I don't think about being in that zone.Jon Young: Absolutely. I mean, I know London. I'm from South Wales, but I probably know London in that sense better than anywhere in the UK. But maybe Edinburgh from when I've been there is quite similar. But if you imagine, I've been to South Kensington umpteen times and often take family there. And I'm thinking to the last time my sister came up, we went to the Natural History Museum as you do. And then we finished and we had a bit more time. So then, "Actually, should we just pop in the Science Museum?" So we went there and I think we even went to the V&A afterwards just because we were enjoying ourselves so much, but we hadn't planned the other two. It was just Natural History Museum. So I think certainly when they're quite close to each other, that's quite something to bear in mind too. Jon Young: What else was there? Another quite interesting quote, a couple of quotes around the spontaneity point. Someone said, "When it's about entertainment, it's just stupid to plan your mood." I quite liked that. Kelly Molson: I like that.Jon Young: And about three months ago, I spoke to somebody. I was doing some work for a museum in Central London, and I was trying to understand the sort of habits before lockdown, before COVID, and after lockdown. And the lady I spoke to was an artist. And we did the Zoom chats and you could see in the background, there was wonderful pieces of art. And she's clearly an incredibly creative person. And she said that before COVID, she was going to attractions maybe two, three times a week if not more. And she just liked being in the National Gallery or the National Portrait Gallery or all these other places. But after lockdown restrictions were lifted, she said she'd been maybe twice in a month if that. And she had a few reasons, but the main one for her was pre-booking. And she said, "I'm such a spontaneous person. I really hate planning." And she even said that when you've got something planned say at two o'clock, then you spend most of the morning kind of thinking about that. Kelly Molson: Right. Jon Young: You know what I mean? I could actually imagine myself, there's a little anxiety. Am I doing everything for time? So there's definitely that type of person and they definitely exist and they are a minority, but they're a fairly chunky minority. And then there's the not organized people. Someone's said, "It would put me off because I hate organizing. I like to float around and browse. The commitment can be a serious burden and other events may occur." Maybe a bit extreme, but I think these people clearly exist and I think they're quite valid reasons.Kelly Molson: Yeah, completely valid. And this is really difficult, isn't it? Because as an attraction, you need to cater for all of these different types of people and how everybody needs and wants the flexibility to be able to book or not book. Gosh, it's really difficult task that people-Jon Young: It really is. And I think a couple of people gave the weather as well, which is obviously more applicable for some than others. I think one thing that maybe is missed in the debates, and maybe I've just not heard enough debates in it, but is that a lot of visits to attractions aren't necessarily those tick box, memorable moment, life-changing experiences. And if you're going to Warner Brothers or maybe a Merlin Attraction or Natural History Museum for the first time, then obviously, these are moments you'll never forget. But a lot of attraction visits are actually really casual visits. We call them the social mindset segments and they tend to make up around one in five people who visited typically visit attractions. And these are people who just go there to be in a nice environment and to maybe chat with a friend or to have a coffee or just to be around like-minded people. And I guess that can sometimes get missed off. It's not necessarily that big standout tick box experience every time.Kelly Molson: Yeah. Like the example that you gave of the artist, I'm sure she finds those environments quite inspiring for her work and for what she does and who she is as a person. To have to plan that is almost like planning your inspiration. It's not quite right, is it? You take yourself off for a walk somewhere random to be inspired. And I think having to kind of go, "Okay, well, at two o'clock, I'm going to go to the Tate for my inspiration for the day," it doesn't quite sit well with that, does it?Jon Young: Yeah. Absolutely, yeah. It is a minority, but yeah, it feels quite valid.Kelly Molson: Are there any differences by visitor party types? So families, retirees, et cetera.Jon Young: Yeah. So it was quite interesting when we asked this question and when we looked at the life stage. So we looked at pre-nesters, those under 35s without children in household, older independents, so 35 and over without children in the household, then families, and then retirees. So we look at those four different life stages as opposed to age group. And families were a little bit higher in terms of being resistant. I think it is worth noting that they were a little bit higher. It's about seven percentage points. It's not a huge amount, but the vast majority were still happy with that. And I think my take, having thought about this quite a bit now, is that the differences aren't really based on life stage or party size per se. There are some, and I can understand why families would be resistant.Jon Young: There are more moving parts with a family literally and more things that can go wrong in the day. Whereas if myself and my partner, we've just got ourselves to worry about. So I can see why that would be a barrier. But for me, the biggest distinction is in attitudes. And as I mentioned earlier, we do quite a lot of audience segmentation. So we don't tend to do them on demographics anymore. So we don't do it on gender or age or any other demographic. We do it on people's attitudes and base their attitudes to life. Or it could be to how they do their leisure behavior or anything else. And that's what's come across here, I think, is that the key distinctions are attitudes to pre-booking and how organized you are and how spontaneous you are and how much you like planning and how much you don't.Jon Young: And that does transcend all life stages. Certainly, there's an indication that families are a bit more resistant, but it's not as big as the sort of differences in terms of attitudes. One other thing we noticed though is that even though families were a bit more resistant, they were actually more likely to go ahead. So it's almost as if they were gritting their teeth and visiting. And again, that did make sense because I guess when you're a family, you really need to fill your spare time and to get out and do things. So whereas maybe an individual on their own or a couple, there's less pressure to do that.Kelly Molson: Yeah. You've got the challenge again of keeping children and younger members of your family occupied. Jon Young: Absolutely.Kelly Molson: So that's that. We've got to do something. Whether we like this or not, we've got to get them out of the house. They're a bit stuck in these four walls. Everyone's going crazy. We've got to go out and do something kind of attitude.Jon Young: Yeah. So my sort of take from this whole section is that not to get too caught up on the party type and just to think about these different attitudes because that feels to be the big dividing point.Kelly Molson: Okay. And audiences that are not picked up by the research. Again, I think this is really interesting to me because I hadn't thought about some of these things as actually being a challenge for people, which is it's not on them to be honest. I should have been more aware of them, but tell us about the audiences that have not been picked up by the research and how it would affect them.Jon Young: Yeah. So I think the international audiences. This was amongst a UK sample. So I can visualize here my wife's parents who are Polish and they don't speak any English. And coming over here as they have done a few times and just setting them free into London and see what they get up to. And they often do visit attractions, but they'll walk up and they'll have that conversation. And there's less room for error, but to ask them to go on a website, they don't book their National Express from Stansted. They get my wife to do that because they know that they can do something wrong. They're a great example in my mind that there's likely to be a barrier for international visitors, particularly those who don't speak English. And there's lots of those who come to London and the rest of the UK.Jon Young: So that's definitely a barrier thing. And unless you can cover all the bases with language, then I think that will be. I know that Google have an inbuilt translation function, but again, you have to be quite IT savvy to know that. So I think that's definitely one audience. The older retirees, so we conduct our surveys on a panel. So these are people who've signed up to do the surveys online. So we're naturally missing out that small proportion of older citizens who aren't that IT savvy. So I guess my Nan would have fallen into that category. She always liked to phone ahead, for example. So there is a danger that they lose out a little bit. And I think, obviously, there's always the option to phone and they do that. But perhaps that is just one extra barrier then, one extra step when maybe a year before, they would have just turned up. Jon Young: So that audience, I think, is quite an important one still, although they are becoming more IT savvy. I think a lot of data shows that. I see people's grands on Facebook now just to make that point. That's a different place to 10 years ago for sure. And I think the third big audience is the low-income audiences. So we've been doing some work for a network of libraries in the UK. And I think it was about two months ago that we had a big meeting with representatives of these different libraries around the UK. And we decided to switch our research to online, again, because of COVID. We used to have paper-based surveys that we've handed out in each library. And we felt, "This is a great idea," maybe for the same reasons as the pre-booking. It's much more efficient. You get much better data, more reliable, blah, blah, blah. Jon Young: And about halfway through, someone from a Glasgow Museum put their hand up and said, "This is great, but can we have paper surveys as well?" He said that it was around about 30% of his catchment area didn't have access to the internet. And I was really surprised by that.Kelly Molson: Right. It's a huge amount.Jon Young: It is. You don't expect numbers like that. But I know there is quite high deprivation traditionally in that area where the library is. So he said, "It's absolutely essential that we have paper surveys." And there was another way of doing this as well. And obviously, that made me think about pre-booking online too. And it's been a challenge for certainly the museum sector and cultural attractions to reach out to all of their audiences. And actually, in Glasgow, they've done a really amazing job. The likes of Kelvingrove, for example, but this audience is quite large. And I guess it needs to be thought-about too. So yeah, that's quite a big barrier as well, I think.Kelly Molson: Yeah, absolutely. And it's a focus for cultural organizations to raise their awareness in audiences that are not necessarily their natural audiences or people that are less aware of them. Those people would fit into that category. So it's understanding all the different ways that you need to be able to help people visit, help them understand what you do and be able to book.Jon Young: Absolutely. I think certain funding like HLF funding is dependent on attractions actually doing that as well. So they kind of need to be seen to return in all these different ways.Kelly Molson: Gosh. So what are the conclusions from this? Because there's not a one answer fits all, is there? This is going to be some kind of hybrid model. Jon Young: There really isn't. I think one thing I didn't mention is the no shows as well. I don't know if you wanted to mention that. Kelly Molson: Yes.Jon Young: But I think there's a big worry as well. In our survey, around 10% of people... Actually, it's 15%, sorry, said that they booked and hadn't shown up. And so there's another, I guess, barrier as well. Although we also found that a similar proportion had shown up because they booked. So I think that maybe balances out. So I think in terms of our conclusions, that was quite an important point for me because there was a lot of people not showing up just because they were never committed in the first place. So I think about seven in 10 of those people said actually it was always 50/50, "I've just booked it." So I think there was a need to maybe make that more taboo.Kelly Molson: There's a challenge there around annual passes as well, isn't there?Jon Young: Absolutely.Kelly Molson: So if you have an annual pass for an attraction, and you have to pre-book as well to use that annual pass, you book it but you might not go. But that can't then be resold. So the attraction in a way kind of loses out because there's no one else that they can put through the door.Jon Young: Yeah, it is a real challenge. And I think I was really struck by the fact that the majority of people who don't turn up just said they had more than one option that day, and they didn't really get the gravity of it. And I mentioned that we tested restaurants as well. And what was really striking was that the proportion of no shows is a lot lower. And people who don't turn up to restaurants were more likely to give understandable reasons like they were ill on the day or so. And I think not turning up to a restaurant is a little bit more taboo. You can kind of visualize in your head that empty table that you're leaving there.Jon Young: So I think the more the attractions can create that sense of taboo without sort of shaming anyone, the better. And maybe that will happen less and less. And I think they are doing that. But you said the annual pass point is quite important. So I think when people have parted with a lot of money for their pre-booking, they're less likely to do it. So yeah, I think one of the conclusions is if we can reduce that a little bit as well, that will help.Jon Young: But in terms of overall conclusions, I mean, I'm like yourself. I'm massively in favor of pre-booking. I think it's brilliant at so many different levels. And I think you listed those right at the start. It's great for the attraction. And it can really improve the visitor experience. It can see improve rates. And also, you can gain loyalty in the long-term and have that conversation on either side. So I'm really behind it. I think it really does suggest, though, that there's a need for some sort of hybrid where there is a walkup option possible because as we've discussed at length, this one in five of your visitors, they may be spontaneous visitors, depending on where you're situated. Jon Young: Obviously, it does matter where you are and how much you charge. If you are the British Library, then there's loads of people coming out of King's Cross and just popping in. But if you're in the middle of nowhere, then you're less likely to have that. So there's obvious differences. And I guess people need to sort of work those through as well. But I certainly think some sort of hybrid. And I'm glad I don't have to sort of deciding on how that works. And I just got to give the data because it's clearly very challenging. But there's a lot of operational brains out there, I think, that can really can work that through. Jon Young: And maybe there's a bit of trial and error as well. But I think the point I made earlier about just understanding it's more of an attitude, no barrier, I think, than anything else. And not to get too bogged down in the demographics of it all. And just to understand that some people hate planning. Yeah. I'm not so good at it myself. So I can kind of empathize. Yeah. And I guess just to be aware that there are other audiences out there who might really struggle. I saw some figures today from Visit Britain and their projections on inbound tourism and it's so low.Kelly Molson: Yeah. 16.9 million, wasn't it? For next year. Jon Young: Well done. I can't remember.Kelly Molson: I think that's what I read this morning. I've been looking at it myself. But it's so vastly down. It's really scary.Jon Young: It really is. And markets like the states will take longer to catch up just because there's a big lag from bookings to visiting. So we need to do all we can to get as many of our British-based visitors in as possible. So I guess we just need to have all the options we can. So yeah, that's the key conclusion, I think, really. And yeah, like I said, I'll leave it to the boffins' fractions to work out how to do it because I guess you don't want to have a situation where if you can turn up walkup anyway, why would you pre-book?Kelly Molson: It's difficult, isn't it? Yeah.Jon Young: So, balance. Kelly Molson: It is about balance, I think. I mean, a lot of attractions are just going to say, "No, that's it. We're going to keep the pre-booking. That's it." It's almost tough, but I think it depends on... It's very location-driven like you were saying. It's interesting. We've actually got Geoff Spooner coming on the podcast in the New Year from the Warner Brothers Studio Tour, The Making of Harry Potter, which obviously launched with pre-booking from opening day. So it'll be really interesting for people to tune in and hear all of the positives from that. But Geoff is very pragmatic when he speaks about it because he does say a lot of those decisions are driven by location actually in terms of kind of parking and congestion in the area where they're located as well. It made sense to do that. And so there's so many factors you have to think about, and it is going to be down to the individual attractions to work out what's going to work best for them.Jon Young: It really is, and I think the likes of Warner Brothers, as I said earlier, when you visit Warner Brothers, it is-Kelly Molson: It's magic. Jon Young: ... amazing. I went a few years ago with my niece, and we actually booked four months in advance. And it was amazing. And everyone's had the same experience, I think. So it is maybe different to the [inaudible 00:41:38] in Central London where you can visit more regularly perhaps. But I think actually one thing that Simon at Roman Baths mentioned was that their booking system is really flexible. So they've had a really low proportion of no-shows. So you can cancel, I think, up to the minute pretty much. And so I think the more flexibility, the better, and maybe that will help as well. So yeah, lots out there. And I'm sure there'll be some great best practice.Kelly Molson: Well, lots to think about for 2021. Hopefully, this podcast has given you a little insight into what visitors are thinking about pre-booking. Jon, I mean, I've been lucky enough to have my copy in advance. Where will people be able to find this research so that they can have a read of it themselves?Jon Young: So hopefully, by the time this is published, we'll have put it into a blog and maybe in a Q&A format. We'll see how it goes. Might put a few graphs in there. We love a graph.Kelly Molson: Love a graph.Jon Young: Feel a bit naked without a graph actually just talking about this. So yeah, we'll put it on our website. Follow me on LinkedIn or whatever, and I'll be promoting it on there as well.Kelly Molson: Right. Well, for our listeners, we will link to all of these things in the show notes. So we will link to Jon's LinkedIn profile. We'll link to the BVA BDRC website and their Twitter profile. So go ahead and follow them. And then you will have access to this brilliant research. Jon, I always end the podcast by asking our guests to recommend a book. Something that they love or something that's helped shape their career in some way. So have you got something to share with us today?Jon Young: I do. I've got this book called How Emotions Are Made. Kelly Molson: Great.Jon Young: So I read this on jury service.Kelly Molson: Okay. Interesting jury service then?Jon Young: Yeah. Well, when I got to the jury service, I noticed that there were loads and loads of thousand-piece jigsaws which gave me an idea that we wouldn't be doing a lot with our time. I think I spent 90% of it just hanging around. So luckily, I had this book, which is written by a neurologist called Lisa Feldman Barrett. And it's the science of how emotions are sort of created. It's a hard read. And I don't think I'd have read it if I didn't have so much time on my hands. But it's really, really fascinating and it kind of changed how I thought about the visitor experience.Jon Young: In a nutshell, it sort of talks about how you can only really feel emotions if you recognize the stimulus you're given and if you're not distracted in lots of ways. So when we test the visitor experience now, certainly in exhibitions, we will just make sure we sort of test how relatable exhibits and descriptions are and whether there are any distractions in the exhibition room, and lots of other things around that. So I do recommend it. It really changed how we thought about the visitor experience. I'm just looking at the footnotes, were about a hundred pages. So I'm not sure if anyone wants to win this, but it's really interesting.Kelly Molson: Jon, you're not really selling it for our listeners. I'm not going to lie. Listen, if you've listened to all of that, and you'd still like to win that book, then if you head over to our Twitter account, and as ever, retweet this episode announcement with the words, "I want Jon's books." Then you will be in with a chance of winning a copy of it. Jon, thank you so much for coming on the podcast today. It's been an absolute pleasure. And I would like to just thank you again for all of the work that you've been doing throughout lockdown because it has been invaluable for us. And I know that it's been invaluable for many, many attractions up and down the UK. So thank you. Jon Young: Thank you. Kelly Molson: This is the last episode of 2020, which is crazy. I have had an absolute blast this year talking to the most interesting people. And I'm so grateful that all of you, listeners, have been tuning in week after week after week. So thank you. We are going to be back on the sixth of January with a very exciting episode. In fact, we've got loads of exciting episodes lined up for the start of the New Year. As you heard earlier, we've got Geoff Spooner coming on from The Making of Harry Potter, which I'm really excited about. I definitely fangirled a little bit on that podcast. We have Holkham Estates coming on to talk about their sustainability plans. And we have the brilliant National Football Museum who are coming on to talk about why your attraction should have a podcast. So stay tuned. We'll see you in the New Year. But in the meantime, have an absolutely wonderful Christmas and festive break.Kelly Molson: Thanks for listening to Skip the Queue. If you've enjoyed this podcast, please leave us a five-star review. It really helps others find us. And remember to follow us on Twitter for your chance to win the books that have been mentioned. Skip the Queue is brought to you by Rubber Cheese, a digital agency that builds remarkable systems and websites for attractions that helps them increase their visitor numbers. You can find show notes and transcriptions from this episode and more over on our website, rubbercheese.com/podcast.

In this episode Neil travels across the channel with legions of heavily armed, well trained Roman soldiers and heads to Bath in SomersetIn AD 43 a conquering Roman army invaded the British Isles and brought the modern world with it - forms to fill in, records to keep, taxes to pay, straight roads and central heating. Exploring Rome's influence on the British Isles Neil takes us with him to Bath's hot springs, the incredible natural phenomenon that brought two gods together - Sulis, the Celtic goddess and Minerva from Rome.Check out the Podcast Instagram Account - Neil Oliver Love Letteremail: history@neiloliverloveletter.com See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information.

It's easy to take modern plumbing for granted, but what did they do hundreds or even thousands of years ago?

It's easy to take modern plumbing for granted, but what did they do hundreds or even thousands of years ago?

Relaxing tour around the Roman Baths with commentary you say? Back at the historical studio, we interview Boudicca from 50AD and Hadrian 120AD to gain their insights of the Baths.

What you'll hear: 1:51: How the baths worked 2:18: What the bathhouse looked like 2:49: The bathing process 4:04: The role of the servant 4:36: The Roman baths in Bath

In this episode, Zofia Matyjaszkiewicz, who is the Collections Assistant at the Roman Baths in Bath, tells Ploy Radford why a patera - a shallow libation bowl - is her underrated object at this world-famous site. This one object sets off a whole discussion about Roman lives and passions, how design can let us date an object, and the concept of pilgrimage. You can view a picture of the patera on the website PloyRadford.com.

Here we are for episode 320! This time we're taking our first holiday of 2020 and it's full of chat as Paul, Toby and Cromitty head to the City Of Bath to sample the sights and sounds that it has in store... All this and we have a "lost" three-part Sutton Park audio drama recorded whilst away on location as Paul and Cromitty as called to deal with some ghostly geese who are haunting an old house opposite The Roman Baths; featuring an all-star cast of Shy Life Podcast regulars. Our next episode, #321 sees us heading onto the Pride48 stream for our live show for March 2020! Do join us, won't you?! Please email me at shyyeti@yahoo.co.uk if you have any comments - you can even send me a sound-file and I'll include it on the show. The music is by Shy Yeti and Luca. All content of this episode is Copyright Paul Chandler, 2020. Episode 320 was recorded between the 27th January and 1st February 2020, with some extra scenes re-recorded between the 29th February and the 11th March 2020. Thank you to Toby and Nick G for their brief appearances during this episode.

LONDON Podcast By Morgan Rees Edited - 10m-32s: This highly concise 10 minute 32 seconds program is part of a continuing series of videos and Blogs. This episode visits major tourist attractions such as the Changing the Guard, Tower of London, Crown Jewels, Windsor Castle, Stonehenge, The Roman Baths, Hard Rock Hotel and where to dine. Ideas for your trip with useful traveller information. Enjoy! Visit the World Without Traveling™ This is part of a continuing series of Videos and Blogs. Episodes visit such notable cities as: London, Paris, Las Vegas, San Francisco, Israel, Napa Valley, Nashville, Monterey and including interesting locations such as: Stonehenge, Eiffel Tower, Changing the Guard, Tower of London - Crown Jewels, Windsor Castle, the Roman baths, the Senine River cruise, Champs-Élysées, Arc de Triomphe, Notre Dame Cathedral, France’s oldest perfume houses, The Louvre Paris Museum, Royal Estate of Versailles, Moulin Rouge, Claude Monet and more. if you are planning on traveling these podcasts are a good primer with useful travel information Listen and Watch Anytime, Anywhere http://www.morganrees.com/podcasts#london http://www.morganrees.com/videos#london www.morganrees.com/videos www.morganrees.com/podcasts www.morganrees.com

The Roman Baths (UK) Podcast (4m-30s) by Morgan Rees One of the major tourist attractions, the Roman Baths date back as far as 60 AD when the original temple was constructed and the natural hot springs were channeled inside. A large complex would also contain an exercise area, a swimming pool and a gymnasium. This is part of a continuing series of videos and Blogs. Episodes visit such notable locations as the Changing the Guard, Tower of London - Crown Jewels, Windsor Castle, Stonehenge and the Roman baths. Ideas for your trip with useful traveler information. Podcast: www.morganrees.com/podcasts#the-roman-baths Video: www.morganrees.com/videos#the-roman-baths www.MorganRees.com

This is an audio rip of two short You Tube videos I did on a visit to the Roman Baths at Bath a few years back. The tour starts in the underground part of the building where the original Roman streets & pavements were. We then move outside to the main Roman Bath area - where I get to interview a guide called Carol. The tour continues around the main bath area & finally ends up with Carol again. Let me know what you think? Oo - and enjoy

The Roman Baths podcast is a highly concise 3 minute 18 seconds program is part of a continuing series of videos and Blogs. Episodes visit major tourist attractions such as the Changing the Guard, Tower of London, Crown Jewels, Windsor Castle, Stonehenge and the Roman baths. Ideas for your trip with useful traveller information. I recorded the episodes on my iPhone and edited it on my laptop. Enjoy!

Changing The Guard, Crown Jewels and Tower of London hosted by Morgan Rees: This highly concise 10 minute 32 seconds program is part of a continuing series of videos and Blogs. This episode visits major tourist attractions such as the Changing the Guard, Tower of London, Crown Jewels, Windsor Castle, Stonehenge, The Roman Baths, Hard Rock Hotel and where to dine. Ideas for your trip with useful traveller information. I recorded the episodes on my iPhone and edited it on my laptop. Enjoy!

LONDON Podcast By Morgan Rees Edited - 10m-32s: This highly concise 10 minute 32 seconds program is part of a continuing series of videos and Blogs. This episode visits major tourist attractions such as the Changing the Guard, Tower of London, Crown Jewels, Windsor Castle, Stonehenge, The Roman Baths, Hard Rock Hotel and where to dine. Ideas for your trip with useful traveller information. Enjoy!

this week a look at baths baths Podcoin --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/verybritish/message

John and Jude are recording this week's episode from the rooftop of an East London pub. We round-up the big celebration news: particularly that Mandolorian panel. John's been to visit a Star Wars location; Puzzlewood in Gloucestershire, aka the forests of Takodana, as seen in The Force Awakens. He's also been to Bath and has a fiendish idea regarding the Roman Baths. Soprano's clip: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GS0DQKHMpM8 Saxondale: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R5eEqbdXoLQ Puzzlewood: https://www.puzzlewood.net/ Roman Baths: https://www.romanbaths.co.uk/

006: I Went to London and All I Got Was This Yarn Released April 23, 2019 In this episode, Anne announces the winner of the last giveaway, talks about her trip to London, and announces another giveaway! Winner! Congratulations to Euphistic81 on Instagram, who won the giveaway announced in episode 5 from Dragonfly Fibers and Knitter's Pride! London! Anne and her daughter visited two fashion-related sites in London, the Victoria and Albert Museum and the Fashion and Textile Museum, as well as the Fashion Museum in Bath. The V&A was hosting special exhibits about Dior and Mary Quant, but also has a permanent exhibit that includes knitwear. The Fashion and Textile Museum rotates it's exhibits frequently. Even if they aren't showing knitwear at the time, this small museum is very informative! The Fashion Museum in Bath walks you through centuries of fashion through 100 representative outfits, as well as hosting an additional exhibit that changes from time to time. The Mary Quant exhibit at the Victoria and Albert Museum featured a hand-knit dress surrounded by several of the knitting and sewing patterns Quant created so people could make their own versions of her designs. Some of her knitting patterns are available as PDFs from sellers on Etsy. Three Yarn Shops to Visit The Village Haberdashery is located in the West Hampstead area of London, just a short walk from the nearest Underground station. It focuses mainly on yarn and fabric crafts, but is a great little all-around craft store. Liberty London is well known for their Liberty fabrics, but it's also the flagship store for Rowan yarns. For many of us, this is a rare opportunity to take a gander at Rowan's entire line! My sweater's worth of Erila Knight's British Blue 100 from Wool in Bath, UK. Also, the project bag gifted to Anne by Wool's owner, Laura, as a thank you for contributing hats for The Big Knit 2019. Wool is a cozy, welcoming yarn shop just a short walk from the Bath Spa train station in Bath, England. They have an extensive collection of British yarns, a welcoming staff, and a gentle shop dog names Toby. Be sure to stop by on your way to or from the Roman Baths to give Toby a pat and take the time to peruse their extensive pattern offerings! Upcoming Events April 27, 2019 is Local Yarn Store Day. Be sure to check the listings to see if your LYS is participating. Whether they are officially involved of now, consider swinging by to show some support for your local brick-and-mortar stores that day! For those in New England, April 27 is also the day of the Connecticut Sheep, Wool, and Fiber Festival. Anne will be there with her family. Will you? Say hi if you see her there! Giveaway Be sure to listen to the episode to learn how to enter our newest episode for a Japanese Knot bag from LittleComfortsAtoZ and a hank of handspun alpaca from Peru. The episode 6 giveaway is a project bag from LittleComfortsAtoZ (Look for her on Etsy), a hank of handspun alpaca yarn, and a set of stitch markers! Featured Music The first song featured was "The Can't Find Kelly" sung by Billy Merson and is available at the Free Music Archive. The second song was "Ca Bages Ca Beans and Car Rots," sung by Florrie Ford, also available from the Free Music Archive. If you are a musician who would like a song featured on the program, or if you have comments or feedback, please contact the show at anne@familypodcasts.com. Support the Show You can help support this show by buying your laundry detergent through Dropps, like I do! It comes to my door every quarter without my having to worry about it. The pods use no plastic--not even in their packaging--and they work. And at half the price I had been paying for pods, the switch was a no-brainer for me. Give them a try and a portion of the price will support the podcast at no additional cost to you! Social Media You can follow Anne on Instagram or Ravelry as @ithoughtiknewhow. She posts articles related to knitting and yarn on the Facebook Group and on Twitter as @ThoughtIKhewHow. Subscribe to the podcast through iTunes or the podcast app of your choice. There is now a Ravelry Group for the show. Be sure to join and introduce yourself!

The second episode in our series looks at how the Roman Baths operated day to day, the infrastructure and technology, how they were managed, what went on when visitors entered the precinct. Our GDPR privacy policy was updated on August 8, 2022. Visit acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the first of three special episodes from the wonderful Roman Bath Museum at Bath. Experts from the museum talk about Bath's history, from before Rome to Georgian Bath to the current day - and the drama of the rediscovery of the Roman Bath and Temple complex. Our GDPR privacy policy was updated on August 8, 2022. Visit acast.com/privacy for more information.

Discussing what the Roman Baths can tell us about Religious worship in the Roman world, and introducing two of the Roman Baths' most illustrious characters - the Goddess, Sulis Minerva, and the Gorgon Our GDPR privacy policy was updated on August 8, 2022. Visit acast.com/privacy for more information.

RHLSTP #206 Peter Lord and Morph - Morpheus in the Underworld. RHLSTP tours to the Bath Komedia and Rich manages to find some tourists who are disgruntled about the Roman Baths that gave the city its name. Let’s face it, they’re just not as good as modern baths. But Rich is delighted to welcome one of the greatest men in the West Country if not the world, it’s Peter Lord. And he’s not only brought Morph with him, but has a crack at making another as he talks. He’s magic, It’s a fascinating chat about how Aardman went from two kids messing around at their kitchen table to running a huge studio making films, TV shows and adverts. Find out about the chicken secrets behind the Sledgehammer video, what it’s like living next door to polar bears, how Plasticine is a magnet for fire, moonwalking at the Oscars and what Aardman was nearly called. It’s an inspiring story about what is possible if you have the imagination and the luck and a little bit of nepotism. And Rich repays a thirty year old debt (without interest). Buy Peter’s brilliant new book and learn more about his and David Sproxton’s life - https://amzn.to/2UE7jSsSUPPORT THE SHOW!Check out our website, become a badger and see extra content http://bit.ly/rhlstpwebSee details of the RHLSTP tour dates http://bit.ly/RHLSTPgigsBuy DVDs and Books http://bit.ly/gofasterstripe See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information.

Join me and special guest expert Emma as we discuss how hygienic the Roman baths really were. Did they help or hinder disease? Plenty of gruesome detail, so, leave till after lunch.    Music by Brakhage (Le Vrai Instrumental)

The town of Bath in England is famous for many things. It was the setting for one of Chaucer's most famous stories from The Canterbury Tales, “The Wife of Bath's Tale,” it was a Georgian pleasure town and its hot springs have attracted people to it since Neolithic times. However, for most history lovers, interest in the town begins with the Roman baths and its status as one of the most fascinating Roman ruin sites in Great Britain. My guest today is David Crowther, host of the History of England Podcast. We talk about how the Romans came to Britain, why they were interested in Bath, and what happened to the town in the years since they left. Dipping a toe in Bath When David was a kid, he went on a school trip to Bath, and as he says, he followed the grand tradition of school kids not being interested in the subject of a field trip. But then the Bath Museum got in touch, and he went back and realized it was, in his words, “the most stunning town and the most stunning museum.” Bath is the second-most visited town in England, and David tells us why: It was built out of gorgeous yellow limestone, the environment surrounding the town is gorgeous, and it has the famous Roman baths. So as David says, it's really several things at once, and they all recommend a visit. Caesar declares victory, runs away The Romans first invaded Bath in 56 B.C., when Julius Caesar was fighting the Gauls, and many of the Gauls were escaping into Britain. David says the myth has it that Caesar invaded Bath, “realized he didn't have the right kid, declared victory and ran away.” He says there's a lot of truth to that myth, but regardless, Claudius came after and did the job properly. What's interesting is that at first, Romans just shipped everything over to Bath, and it wasn't until the third century that they truly began to make a real society and a mixed and varied economy. By the third and fourth century, the Romans start putting in a lot of work on the complex. It's a religious complex, with a priest presiding over it. But by 420, after years of invasions, Roman Britain is, as David says, “absolutely dead.” How the monument came to be It's a little strange for modern people to imagine a temple in a public bath, but the Roman baths were holy places, as well. As David tells me, the gray ruins we see now bare little resemblance to the colorful places Roman baths used to be. He provides a great picture of what you would have seen if you had prayed at the altar in, say the fourth century. The deities in that particular temple included Minerva. But what's fascinating is that the Romans incorporated the deities into the temples. So while Minerva is a prominent Roman deity, Sulis, a Celtic goddess was also worshipped at Bath. The many “careers” of Bath While there was some attempt to preserve the baths, eventually the city falls to pieces, as David says, and by the time Henry I comes along, the baths are completely gone. And Bath underwent numerous transformations after that, including as the setting for one of Geoffrey Chaucer's Canterbury Tales. And then, in the 18th century, it became a posh spot, and that's the city you see today when you visit. The original Roman baths were rediscovered in the 19th century, and excavation continues to this day. It sounds like an amazing place to visit, and David provides some great suggestions for where and how to see it today. Outline of This Episode [1:41] The history of the History of England Podcast [3:54] How he got interested in Bath [6:57] How Romans came to Bath [13:30] What is a Roman bath? [17:00] The Temple at Bath [21:20] How Romans viewed religion [26:19] What happens to Bath after Romans leave [35:49] What to see in Bath Resources Mentioned The History of England Podcast Roman Bath Museum Rick Steves Over Brunch Connect With Stephanie stephanie@historyfangirl.com https://historyfangirl.com Support Stephanie on Patreon Featuring the song “Places Unseen” by Lee Rosevere. More info and photographs for this episode at: https://historyfangirl.com/englands-roman-baths/

Max and Coco discuss changing the name of the podcast to Wild North Creative, as well as discuss courses in creativity that they are starting offer. And then it's off to Bath, England, where Max lived when he was 10. The two explore Stonehenge, the Roman Baths, and the weird, pagan history lurking under every cobblestone.

Register: Between December 6th through the 13th and receive $100 off your fee! Register Me! Join Ria (the Producer and Host of Cider Chat) and Totally Cider for a fantastic journey to the West Country in the United Kingdom. We will visit some of the best cideries and stay in lovely accommodations for our trip. Additional days pre- or post-tour can easily be arranged. Space is limited for this unique opportunity, so don't wait! Please follow this link for registration and payments: Register Me! Cider Visits & Sightseeing: Thatchers Sheppy's Perry's Cider Worley's Cider Apple County Cider Ross & Wye Cider Co. Oliver's Cider & Perry Sightseeing Tintern Abbey Chepstow Castle Bath Have all day Saturday to roam about in the City of Bath, visting the Roman Baths, a High Cider Tea at our hotel or the many English Pubs! Accommodation: 1 night • Brooks Guest House, Bristol • 4 Star 1 nights • Castle Hotel, Taunton • 4 Star 2 night • Abbey Hotel, Bath • 4 Star 2 nights • Brooks Country House, Ross on Wye • 4 Star 1 night • Brooks Guest House, Bristol • 4 Star Meals: Breakfasts at the hotel each morning Ultimate Cider Experience at The Stable Restaurant, Bristol Lunch at the Railway Inn (Thatcher’s) Three course dinner at the Castle Hotel Taunton (private room) Lunch at the Three Horseshoes Packed lunch/ Picnic from Apple County Cider Light lunch at Brooks Country House Hotel Three course dinner in Brooks Country House (private area of restaurant) Packed lunch provided by Brooks Country House Detailed itinerary and a few photos to give you a taste can be found below. The tour is round trip from Bristol. Mentions in this Chat February 11, 2018 - New York International Beer Competition (NYISC) is accepting cider entries NOW! NYISC is using the United States Association of Cider Makers new cider categories for this competition. The judges at this competition are in the trade of buying and selling cider and thus judge the cider on it merit of taste and price point. Ask for the following 9 #ciderGoingUP Campaign sponsors - By supporting these cider makers, you in turn help Cider Chat Kurant Cider - Pennsylvania : listen to Joe Getz on episode 14 Big Apple Hard Cider - NYC : listen to Danielle von Scheiner on episode 35 Oliver’s Cider and Perry - Herefordshire/UK ; listen to Tom Oliver on episode 29 Santa Cruz Cider Company - California : listen to Nicole Todd on episode 60 The Cider Project aka EthicCider- California Albermale CiderWorks : listen to Chuck Shelton on episode 56 Cider Summit : listen to Alan Shapiro founder of this cider fest on episode 75. Ramborn Cider Co. Luxembourg. Big Fish Cider Co. Virginia Please Help Support Cider Chat Please donate today. Help keep the chat thriving! Find this episode and all episodes at the page for Cider Chat's podcasts. Listen also at iTunes, Google Play, Stitcher (for Android), iHeartRadio, Spotify and wherever you love to listen to podcasts. Follow on twitter @ciderchat  

In this episode of the podcast Gary Bembridge of TipsForTravellers.com, visits Bath in Somerset in England and provides tips for travellers on the 10 must-see sights and attractions. In addition he also provides some key observations, historical highlights, best time to visit, getting there and around and general tips and advice. Bath is one of most popular tourists destinations out of London. It is ideal for visitors wanting to feel they have stepped into an old world English city. The city is chock full of Georgian style architecture and is built with distinctive Bath stone. It has a long history dating back to Roman times, and an easy day trip or place to visit for a few days. It gets very busy in summer as its such  draw card. These tips help you make the most of it The episode covers the following must-see sights and attractions: Bath Abbey. Roman Baths and Pump Room. Thermae Bath Spa. Royal Crescent and No1 Royal Crescent. Fashion Museum and Assembly Rooms. Museum of Bath Architecture. Museum of Bath at Work. Jane Austen Centre. Theatre Royal Bath. Sally Lunn's Historic House and Museum. Resources: Visit Bath Official Site: www.visitbath.co.uk Hop-on Hop-Off Bus: https://www.bathbuscompany.com After listening to the podcast: Please leave a comment on Tipsfortravellers.com/podcast, email me or leave a review on iTunes. Subscribe (and leave a review) to the podcast on iTunes, Google Play, Stitcher or TuneIn Radio. Consider becoming a Podcast Patron and visit tipsfortravellers.com/patron. Make a donation at http://www.tipsfortravellers.com/paypal Going on a cruise? Want a great deal? Get great advice and deals through the Tips For Travellers Cruise Line: find out more at http://www.tipsfortravellers.com/cruiseline Save Save

jam's Dev Camp is back with something a little different this week: Rick Donohoe, Account Manager at Microserve in Bristol, presents a case study about how his company delivered six sites on a fixed budget, 5-site contract. He gives some great general and specific tips on making a project like this successful. I saw Rick do a shorter version of this at Drupal Camp Bristol 2015 and thought that the information he has to share is valuable and that many of us could benefit from it. Thanks to Rick and Microserve for sharing! Read the full post and see the conversation video at the Acquia Developer Center: https://dev.acquia.com/podcast/204-drupal-case-study-roman-baths-bath-uk

In episode 8 of the Join Us in France Travel Podcast we take you on a walking tour of the Cluny Museum in Paris also called the Musée National du Moyen Age. This museum is a lesser known jewel, and well-worth a visit. There you will see The Lady and the Unicorn Tapestry, the Roman Baths, the stained glass up-close and the statue heads from Notre Dame that angry revolutionaries had thrown in the Seine river. For photos and show notes go to joinusinfrance.com/8 Subscribe to the Join Us in France Newsletter Click here for show notes and photos. Click here to support the show when booking your hotels. Click here to support the show when you shop on Amazon. Click here to review the show on iTunes. Click here to leave us a voice mail question or comment. Send email feedback: annie@joinusinfrance.com Follow the show on Facebook

Travel to Bath, England and you will be rewarded for your effort with Roman Baths, Georgian architecture and gorgeous parks ... all in a World Heritage site. For more visit: http://indietravelpodcast.com

Transcript -- The Romans have always been renowned for their famous baths. This video focuses on the engineering and technologies behind them.

The Romans have always been renowned for their famous baths. This video focuses on the engineering and technologies behind them.

Transcript -- The Romans have always been renowned for their famous baths. This video focuses on the engineering and technologies behind them.

The Romans have always been renowned for their famous baths. This video focuses on the engineering and technologies behind them.

Aspire Episode 35: July 29, 2007 Roman Baths. This show talks about Baths, Beauty and Spas; the Ancient, the Modern, Roman and Turkish, and much more! Listener Feedback at aspire@szilverwolf.com or 813-249-9222 Copyright © 2007 Szilverwolf LLC

Aspire Episode 35: July 29, 2007 Roman Baths. This show talks about Baths, Beauty and Spas; the Ancient, the Modern, Roman and Turkish, and much more! Listener Feedback at aspire@szilverwolf.com or 813-249-9222 Copyright © 2007 Szilverwolf LLC

This week Sue Lawley's castaway is the architect Sir Nicholas Grimshaw. An interest in engineering runs in the Grimshaw genes - one great-grandfather was responsible for seeing a proper drainage and sanitation system installed in Dublin, while another built dams in Egypt. Nicholas inherited an enormous Meccano set and showed an early interest in construction - his passions were building tree houses and boats. One of his nicknames is 'Meccano man' because of his designs with exposed steel supports. In the past 12 years his work has become more widely known and includes the International Terminal at Waterloo, the British Pavilion, for Seville's Expo '92 and, most significantly, the Eden Project. He's just finished the redevelopment of the Roman Baths at Bath and is now working on Battersea Power Station.[Taken from the original programme material for this archive edition of Desert Island Discs]Favourite track: Prelude to Cello Suite No.4 by Johann Sebastian Bach Book: The complete works by Patrick O'Brien Luxury: RIBA drawings collection

This week Sue Lawley's castaway is the architect Sir Nicholas Grimshaw. An interest in engineering runs in the Grimshaw genes - one great-grandfather was responsible for seeing a proper drainage and sanitation system installed in Dublin, while another built dams in Egypt. Nicholas inherited an enormous Meccano set and showed an early interest in construction - his passions were building tree houses and boats. One of his nicknames is 'Meccano man' because of his designs with exposed steel supports. In the past 12 years his work has become more widely known and includes the International Terminal at Waterloo, the British Pavilion, for Seville's Expo '92 and, most significantly, the Eden Project. He's just finished the redevelopment of the Roman Baths at Bath and is now working on Battersea Power Station. [Taken from the original programme material for this archive edition of Desert Island Discs] Favourite track: Prelude to Cello Suite No.4 by Johann Sebastian Bach Book: The complete works by Patrick O'Brien Luxury: RIBA drawings collection